**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 03 02:59:57 2010 Apr 03 03:24:19 * sigh * Apr 03 03:24:54 still no PR1.2 eh? Apr 03 03:26:10 heh Apr 03 03:30:11 ml-mobile, PR1.2 will be 'launch' firmware for australian stock Apr 03 03:30:40 when is it heading out there? Apr 03 03:30:59 this month Apr 03 03:31:21 cool Apr 03 03:42:15 well, if they promise it to this month, at least that would be a promise anyway. Apr 03 03:42:26 where did you see that they promised it to this month? Apr 03 03:58:47 There have been no promises. Apr 03 04:04:32 Corporations don't do promises Apr 03 04:14:49 GAN900: entertain me. Apr 03 04:20:50 crashanddie, you! Apr 03 04:21:06 yes, me. Apr 03 04:21:09 * GAN900 is too exhausted to fall asleep. Apr 03 04:21:37 i used route add default gw 192.168.2.14 to be able to ping google.com from my n900 with usb networking earlier today but now it doesn't work anymore. what should i try instead? Apr 03 04:27:07 uhsf: route add default gw try 355.355.355.1 Apr 03 04:27:13 err, remove that try Apr 03 04:29:04 i see .. ipv4 addresses getting short, we have to be clever :) Apr 03 04:30:25 crashanddie: i still get ping: bad address 'google.com' Apr 03 04:31:10 uhsf: that's because IPv4 addresses can only go from 0.0.0.0 to 255.255.255.255 Apr 03 04:31:20 uhsf: so get on wikipedia and teach yourself IPv4 Apr 03 04:31:48 uhsf: *nobody* can guess what your IP address is going to be. That is only some information that you can find out, and feed yourself Apr 03 04:32:06 uhsf: I'm guessing that 192.168.2.14 was the IP address of your computer, correct? Apr 03 04:33:06 yes Apr 03 04:33:31 so, there is a good chance the IP address of your computer has changed Apr 03 04:33:37 is it a windows or linux computer? Apr 03 04:33:42 linux Apr 03 04:33:53 type ifconfig in a terminal Apr 03 04:33:59 this will show you all the network interfaces available Apr 03 04:34:23 find the IP address of your network adapter (probably starts with 192.168.2 if it's the same network), and use that value in the route command Apr 03 04:36:41 the ip of usb0 is inet addr:192.168.2.14 Apr 03 04:37:43 the command route add default gw 192.168.2.14 gives route: SIOCADDRT: File exists Apr 03 04:39:31 do i have to restart network or something after the command route add default gw? Apr 03 04:46:32 mo Apr 03 04:46:34 no Apr 03 04:47:09 if there is an error check why .. look at existing routes Apr 03 04:54:22 maybe i'm too tired. i'll be back tomorrow Apr 03 05:13:05 ptl_demands_PR12, release date WAS mar 31, its now aug 21 Apr 03 05:43:58 <|Superci|> ciao Apr 03 05:44:14 <|Superci|> !list Apr 03 06:12:31 "Java has evolved from a groundbreaking, revolutionary language platform to something closer to a modern-day version of Cobol." Apr 03 06:12:40 Gooooood Apr 03 06:17:37 * noobmonk3y thinks sleep sounds like more fun then a long drive....... Apr 03 06:23:38 DocScrutinizer: got no devices to lend out :P Apr 03 06:54:24 where are the gpodder settings stored Apr 03 06:54:37 somehow I corrupted them and now I can not use it, reinstall does not work Apr 03 06:56:14 hi room Apr 03 06:56:20 whats a trackerd ? Apr 03 06:56:28 its taking a lot of my cpu time Apr 03 06:56:44 trackerd and tracker-indexer Apr 03 06:58:58 it tells media and photo player where your media is Apr 03 06:58:59 anybody there ??? Apr 03 06:59:15 you can disable it in its comfig file Apr 03 06:59:38 but then you have to use directory based players Apr 03 07:01:13 why is taking such a long time to do what it does ? Apr 03 07:01:43 it is making thumbnails and such Apr 03 07:01:46 and reading files Apr 03 07:01:46 i just *kill*ed the tracker-indexer process, usage went down Apr 03 07:02:17 ok right now Apr 03 07:02:26 and surprisingly your media player doesn't work correctly anymore :) Apr 03 07:02:34 osso-addressbook just started doing the same thing Apr 03 07:02:52 how about rebooting your device? Apr 03 07:03:56 sorry i'm using the web based freenode client for irc Apr 03 07:04:04 it sometimes stops sending messages i guess Apr 03 07:19:49 so there is no java Apr 03 07:20:06 where? Apr 03 07:20:18 in chromiun os Apr 03 07:20:43 we're not mind readers you know Apr 03 07:21:12 speak for yourself Apr 03 07:21:18 what's the deal with MeeGo? what will happen to the Maemo project? Apr 03 07:21:45 wrong Apr 03 07:21:48 sorry Apr 03 07:21:55 i just got one of these n900 phones for example. will there be some point in the future where i should update to MeeGo and abandon Maemo? Apr 03 07:22:50 nocturnal, Perhaps eventually, but meego is a loooong way from usable on the N900 now. Apr 03 07:23:03 fuck. seems that contact merges are *not* processed correctly if MfE sync is enabled. I get damn a lot of duplicates after resync :-((( Apr 03 07:23:59 Ken-Young: yeah i figured it was sorta beta status. but thanks for the answer. i guess i'll keep an eye on it Apr 03 07:24:41 nocturnal, The phone portion of meego is not even close to beta yet. Apr 03 07:25:36 Any idea why the media player cant properly index my .flac files? They end up under unkown. Apr 03 07:25:45 I know the seek support is a bug... but the tags? Apr 03 07:29:03 Ken-Young: or it just looks like that, most of the system is there :P Apr 03 07:31:04 Stskeeps, Yeah, I should shut up. I haven't even tried it yet. Apr 03 08:00:40 hi guys Apr 03 08:08:09 is there any way to copy text rom an email? Apr 03 08:08:29 ow Apr 03 08:09:23 hi Apr 03 08:09:58 i tried to reply to the email and then shift + arrow but it doesnt select the text Apr 03 08:11:12 A couple days ago I was wondering here if was still true the deathline for maemo 6... it seems like the first version of meego will be released in may :) Apr 03 08:11:30 is it not the right way to do it? Apr 03 08:13:56 dunno, i use webmail Apr 03 08:38:34 * Noobmonk3y waves Apr 03 08:46:25 anybody uses sip? Apr 03 08:47:38 there is no mwi available. is it possible to implement mwi using an applet Apr 03 08:48:36 <`0660> i use sip Apr 03 08:49:36 <`0660> but i don't hack it, so i have no idea how open the current implementation is Apr 03 08:50:20 mwi is a core feature of sip Apr 03 08:50:33 what codec do u use? Apr 03 08:51:03 <`0660> i suppose they upport it then because i can make calls with my sip Apr 03 08:51:15 <`0660> i didn't select any codec, so i'm not sure Apr 03 08:52:26 i have forced g729 on the server. cpu usage is quite high on the phone :( Apr 03 08:53:05 Does the n900 have pygame installed by default, or do you have to install it for using the games made with it Apr 03 09:00:33 The package manager should install it when it installs any games using it Apr 03 09:03:46 tried running a simple textfile with import pygame in it, unfortunately, it wasnt installed Apr 03 09:04:20 That's a bug in the package managers dependency resolution than :p Apr 03 09:04:41 (or in the package itself) Apr 03 09:05:18 Well, I would count the packages dependency listing as part of the same thing. Apr 03 09:10:06 marcus_: have to install it Apr 03 09:10:26 Stskeeps: In extras-devel then? Apr 03 09:10:53 yeah Apr 03 09:39:24 anyone tried using a sip call using their cars bluetooth? Apr 03 09:43:02 Would that be different from a normal phone call auenf ? Apr 03 09:43:32 hmm Apr 03 09:43:54 I just compiled a little SDL game in c++ using mad g++ -o mainnew main.cpp -lSDL -lSDL_image Apr 03 09:44:04 but when I try to run it on the n900, it says permission denied :/ Apr 03 09:44:18 /bin/sh: ./mainnew: Permission denied Apr 03 09:44:26 chmod +x mainnew ? Apr 03 09:44:30 done that Apr 03 09:44:32 in root and normal Apr 03 09:44:37 hmm Apr 03 09:45:00 trying to run it via ./mainnew Apr 03 09:45:58 Appiah, on my n82 it is Apr 03 09:46:32 with n82, a normal call activated the bluetooth stereo properly, a sip call doesnt interrupt the radio, and hence i cant hear the other party Apr 03 09:59:08 marcus_: make sure its not on removable storage as thats mounted noexec Apr 03 10:07:28 is there software for the n900 that uses openstreetmap data? Apr 03 10:07:48 yes Apr 03 10:07:59 can it be used with GPS? Apr 03 10:08:14 a satnav with cycle routes would be awesome Apr 03 10:10:14 oh, does it always use the default openstreetmap map? Apr 03 10:10:48 see, i'd like something to show me were i am on the opencyclemap map Apr 03 10:11:11 like Marble Desktop Globe would (if my desktop had GPS) Apr 03 10:11:19 maep mapper ecoach .. and soon to come "Bike Dashboard" Apr 03 10:11:42 osm2go Apr 03 10:12:14 osm2go Apr 03 10:12:16 which is more of an editort hough Apr 03 10:12:22 i don't need to edit Apr 03 10:12:29 where are youl BCMM ? Apr 03 10:12:33 UK Apr 03 10:13:16 at the moment, i tend to plan routes using marble desktop globe, which so far is the best program i've found for looking at the sustrans network Apr 03 10:13:36 National Cycle Network even Apr 03 10:13:37 in principle osm should get better in some time, due to improts from newly release ordnance survey data Apr 03 10:13:56 ordnance survey data got usable? Apr 03 10:14:05 or old OS data that went out of copyright? Apr 03 10:14:08 also #osm over on irc.oftc.net may be useful Apr 03 10:14:11 no Apr 03 10:14:37 google berners ordnance survey april release Apr 03 10:14:57 is there a memcheck for n810? Apr 03 10:15:27 does maep use the GPS function? Apr 03 10:15:58 Ow. Ow. Ow. Do _not_ do manual labour using Prodigy as background music. Apr 03 10:16:18 * SpeedEvil just tried to get out of bed. Apr 03 10:16:30 BCMM: yes Apr 03 10:16:40 shiny Apr 03 10:17:19 see, now if i get an n900, i can skip the whole planning in marble thing and just get hopelessly lost first :) Apr 03 10:18:30 n900 is not ideal for une in sunlight Apr 03 10:18:41 if handheld, it's ok Apr 03 10:18:56 strapped to handlebars - maybe not. Apr 03 10:18:58 SpeedEvil: UK... Apr 03 10:19:09 i'll run the risk of sunlight :) Apr 03 10:19:17 :) Apr 03 10:19:19 also, doesn't it have a transflective screen? Apr 03 10:19:27 not really Apr 03 10:19:34 no, not gonna strap it to the handlebars or anything Apr 03 10:19:47 just get myself completely lost, then consult it Apr 03 10:19:52 it sort-of works with the backlight off in sunlight Apr 03 10:19:54 not really? Apr 03 10:20:18 like Apr 03 10:20:22 but the display is nowhere near the same. Apr 03 10:20:25 better or worse than an ipod Apr 03 10:20:30 (old ones i mean) Apr 03 10:20:40 i mean, they are readable, but not really colourful Apr 03 10:21:07 dunno Apr 03 10:21:33 it is generally visible , if you can point it right Apr 03 10:21:35 hmm must have a look at that Apr 03 10:21:53 I should put up some vids. Apr 03 10:22:01 i'm trying to find a shop that has a display model and will let me see if i can actually use the keyboard before i get one Apr 03 10:22:08 but my screen protector is shredded. Apr 03 10:22:12 maybe i'll try and stand right under a light Apr 03 10:22:26 I'm on n900 at the moment, using its keyboard. Apr 03 10:22:37 hmm Apr 03 10:22:39 up to 35 wpm or so. Apr 03 10:22:50 i was gonna say, i hadn't noticed you lagging much Apr 03 10:22:57 nope. Apr 03 10:23:00 i consider myself fairly clumsy Apr 03 10:23:06 but i touchtype quickly Apr 03 10:23:09 and have small fingers Apr 03 10:23:17 I started at maybe 15 Apr 03 10:23:18 typing on 09 Apr 03 10:23:20 how does it work? thumbs? Apr 03 10:23:24 yes Apr 03 10:23:27 900 surorised ppl Apr 03 10:23:37 hmm Apr 03 10:23:41 sometimes its still screwed lol Apr 03 10:23:44 35wpm is pretty good Apr 03 10:23:57 * lcukn900 hit enter instead of delte Apr 03 10:24:08 i've been vaguely considering whether writing LaTeX on one is workable Apr 03 10:24:22 how is entry of punctuation? Apr 03 10:24:29 i mean, things like / and \ Apr 03 10:24:32 {} Apr 03 10:24:34 Somewhat annoying. Apr 03 10:24:36 akward Apr 03 10:24:41 ah Apr 03 10:24:47 /\ is shifted Apr 03 10:24:56 with a sticky shift Apr 03 10:25:10 all but ,. are shifted. Apr 03 10:25:14 does it come with a stylus for the touchscreen? Apr 03 10:25:20 { Apr 03 10:25:37 people have mentioned styli, but i can't see the holder in any pictures Apr 03 10:25:41 there is a stylus with holder in the case Apr 03 10:25:51 its along the bottom edge of the device while held in landscape Apr 03 10:26:02 requires a chorded shiftpress of arrow and sym, then onscreen symbol map Apr 03 10:26:05 wristband is missing .. but you get an expensive cleaning cloth :P Apr 03 10:26:19 it's just next to the earphone socket Apr 03 10:26:25 SpeedEvil: so you press a combo, and an onscreen keyboard with a more comprehensive symbol list appears? Apr 03 10:26:32 yes Apr 03 10:26:49 expensive cleaning cloth == lintless glasses cloth? Apr 03 10:26:54 It's not horribly slow. Apr 03 10:27:03 hmm Apr 03 10:27:04 yeah its just a little microfibre cloth Apr 03 10:27:15 not as nice as the one that came with the e90 Apr 03 10:27:48 BCMM: i was joking .. well the display surface is plastic because if resistive touchscreen, not glass Apr 03 10:27:50 well, when i do LaTeX it's assignments for my physics degree, so it has to get pretty slow for me to bottleneck on the typing rather than the maths Apr 03 10:28:03 you want a screen protector or handle it carefully Apr 03 10:28:18 you can als reassign keys on the keyboard with some efforts Apr 03 10:28:22 A screen protector is mandatory for me. Apr 03 10:28:28 what is a screen protector? Apr 03 10:28:32 for me too Apr 03 10:28:32 I manage fine with no screen protector Apr 03 10:28:35 if you know linux, almost everything is pretty easy to do Apr 03 10:28:39 a plastic sticker taht cheaper to replace than the screen? Apr 03 10:28:40 some dont need it Apr 03 10:28:47 BCMM: its just a plastic sheet that sticks onto the screen Apr 03 10:28:47 BCMM: yes Apr 03 10:28:48 ah, i can remap? cool Apr 03 10:28:59 I managed to edit the keymap to my liking in <30 minutes, because I already know how to Apr 03 10:29:01 they come in varying qualities, some are just there to take the scratches then replace Apr 03 10:29:02 well and there are good and horrible screen protectors :P Apr 03 10:29:05 I accidentally put seccateurs in wrong pocet when gardening, and bent up and down a few hundred times. Apr 03 10:29:07 decent ones are very hard to damage atall Apr 03 10:29:08 it's linux dude, you can do everything Apr 03 10:29:21 It's damn near opaque now Apr 03 10:29:23 yeah, but not everything is easy Apr 03 10:29:32 most make the screen feel pretty nasty to use with a stylus though Apr 03 10:29:38 the Durasec i had for sure never got scratches .. was more a clear rubber mat, but it didnt feel well Apr 03 10:29:39 not until you know how :) Apr 03 10:29:40 also, to what extent can you actually do everything? Apr 03 10:29:44 i thrown it away Apr 03 10:29:44 these I have work fine. Apr 03 10:29:46 how much of the stuff running on it is open? Apr 03 10:29:53 for 2.99 Apr 03 10:29:58 and can i install a different distro on it (in theory) Apr 03 10:30:02 ~closed Apr 03 10:30:03 hmm... closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages Apr 03 10:30:07 no not really Apr 03 10:30:08 see that Apr 03 10:30:20 BCMM: in theory yes, but you cant access most of the special hardware Apr 03 10:30:20 on the base install, something like 45% (?) is o/s? Apr 03 10:30:33 that is - 10 protectors for 2.99 Apr 03 10:30:35 its sufficiently free and there is easy debian Apr 03 10:30:54 easy debian is a chrooted debian Apr 03 10:30:56 and a lot free software is ported to it or porting underway Apr 03 10:31:06 that runs in the background. Apr 03 10:31:15 for a latex user i can tell you that emacs runs fine :P Apr 03 10:31:32 I mean - runs on top of normal os Apr 03 10:31:38 native, not easy debian, its not in the repos but some japanese guy packaged it Apr 03 10:31:39 heh, i've never really learned emacs Apr 03 10:31:43 i use vim or kate Apr 03 10:31:45 usually kate for latex Apr 03 10:31:49 ok then Apr 03 10:31:58 well dunno if there is kate for n900 Apr 03 10:32:02 never used it Apr 03 10:32:02 if I can apt-get whatever app I want, and edit any file in the system, it's sufficently open for me Apr 03 10:32:10 w00t_, yes i was up late Apr 03 10:32:20 anyway, i'm happy if i can get syntax highlighting and a keyboard shortcut that compiles the document Apr 03 10:32:38 * lcuk gave up trying to type with n900 whilst still in bed Apr 03 10:32:58 ah, that page makes some sense Apr 03 10:33:12 given that A-GPS does an awful lot in software, i can see why they want to close that Apr 03 10:33:28 yeah typing on it is not really comfortable, its way better than most other phones and t9 smsing but i usually ssh to the device from my laptop to do more complicated things Apr 03 10:33:29 there are good reasons for most of the closed packages Apr 03 10:33:50 anyway, seems like proper linux to me Apr 03 10:33:52 nidO: i disagree about the 'good' Apr 03 10:34:04 got suspicous after the huge letdown of android Apr 03 10:34:06 there are reasons, but open would be better Apr 03 10:34:19 all the "regular linux stuff" is as open as it usually is Apr 03 10:34:24 well, its a case of open-source puritan meets real world, and real world wins Apr 03 10:34:34 I guess there are like phone drivers that are not, but I don't mess with that Apr 03 10:34:50 well there is always something i want to hack and the closed stuff prevents it Apr 03 10:34:56 i'm not a puritan as such Apr 03 10:35:07 just raising the battery low warning isnt possible for example Apr 03 10:35:08 i mean, i can't actually write kernel code anyway Apr 03 10:35:21 cehteh: wow, really? Apr 03 10:35:33 i want to know that i can modify stuff taht actually bothers me though Apr 03 10:35:43 because nokia would have to open up BME, and that's a whole huge can of worms that nokia wont touch with a bargepole, and understandably Apr 03 10:35:45 cehteh: you can't write an app to get battery percentage? Apr 03 10:35:45 its hardcoded in BME or at least hidden somewhere where i didnt found it yet Apr 03 10:35:57 BCMM: thats not the problem Apr 03 10:36:03 granted recoding BME to allow adjusting warnings without opening it up would be a good alternative Apr 03 10:36:04 there is work goimg on on opensourcing battery Apr 03 10:36:08 but there is a daemon which manages battery state and charging Apr 03 10:36:09 that's a shame Apr 03 10:36:12 BCMM: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo.org/openness/pr1.1/ Apr 03 10:36:12 but I can 100% see why nokia wont open it Apr 03 10:36:26 lshal|grep percent Apr 03 10:36:26 they wouldn't need to open it up completely, just have an API for an app to get battery state Apr 03 10:36:26 this piece is closed for reasons that users cant damage the device Apr 03 10:36:49 it could be all kinds of useful, like if you wanted a fullscreen game or broweser with a little battery indicator somewhere Apr 03 10:36:58 it's all on dbus Apr 03 10:36:59 SpeedEvil: but there is a battery low warning which is system wide and well defined Apr 03 10:37:00 if I want to damage my device, I should be able to Apr 03 10:37:01 the battery state chip has _no_ reason to be closed and hidden Apr 03 10:37:09 i just want to raise it a bit Apr 03 10:37:16 Arkenklo, no not really, the real world doesnt work like that Apr 03 10:37:19 SpeedEvil: go look at matan's post on this issue on talk.maemo.org Apr 03 10:37:24 nidO: it should Apr 03 10:37:24 hmm Apr 03 10:37:25 Arkenklo: and sue nokia afterwards? Apr 03 10:37:26 :P Apr 03 10:37:34 depends what it would do if you kept it running as the voltage gave out Apr 03 10:37:39 nidO: prepare fot bme to vanish though Apr 03 10:37:50 Stskeeps: I don't really do tmo. Can you link to thread? Apr 03 10:37:53 i mean some bits of hardware might behave strangely instead of just shutting off Apr 03 10:38:01 does bme do smartreflex? Apr 03 10:38:02 as highly unlikely as it may be, "its my device and i want to damage it if i want" doesnt stant up to tomorrow's newspaper headline: "geek's nokia phone catches fire, burns his mother's house down, 2 die" Apr 03 10:38:02 DocScrutinizer: in meego or pr1.2? Apr 03 10:38:04 I think there are enough ways to make linux fuck it self up already, one more way wouldn't hurt Apr 03 10:38:08 = a headline nokia can do without. Apr 03 10:38:10 maybe lose some data or send stupid replies to the network and frighten it Apr 03 10:38:32 cehteh: not clear. meego for sure Apr 03 10:38:36 BCMM: the modem is a different computer/os Apr 03 10:38:37 zoutube broken? i cannot pull up videos i search Apr 03 10:38:38 SpeedEvil: post includes that bq chip number, can't recall it Apr 03 10:38:46 it's not linux Apr 03 10:38:50 SpeedEvil: eh? Apr 03 10:38:50 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48964&highlight=bq27200 Apr 03 10:39:02 SpeedEvil: that doesn't make any sense at all Apr 03 10:39:05 lol... Apr 03 10:39:05 well you can actually fry the device with bad programming .. voltage and frequency controls and other hardware controls are done in hardware Apr 03 10:39:11 BCMM: the modem is a different cpu. It does not run linux Apr 03 10:39:12 I think cnet is a bit apple-oriented Apr 03 10:39:21 you mean it has it's own tiny little processor and firmware, like my wifi card? Apr 03 10:39:25 yes Apr 03 10:39:26 http://reviews.cnet.com/tablets/apple-ipad-16gb/4505-3126_7-33958447.html <-- scroll down, to the "Compare this tablet to:" Apr 03 10:39:32 or something more than that Apr 03 10:40:06 nidO: the burning phone is an urban legend, when it comes to n900 Apr 03 10:40:15 hmm Apr 03 10:40:28 adapting to being careful with a phone might be a bit of work Apr 03 10:40:32 my current phone is a 3410 Apr 03 10:40:38 insurance Apr 03 10:40:42 i can't count how many drop-kicks its had Apr 03 10:40:44 bme doesn't use bq27200's charge tracking Apr 03 10:40:46 50 quid a year Apr 03 10:40:46 DocScrutinizer: i'd never even heard the legend, i'm just being generic. Apr 03 10:40:58 BCMM: get one of those super mega plastic skins Apr 03 10:41:10 for accidental damage and loss insurance Apr 03 10:41:11 opening up BME would give, however unlikely, coders the possibility of buggering up the battery management and causing it Apr 03 10:41:28 SpeedEvil: you can insure it against *loss* for £50 a year? Apr 03 10:41:35 BCMM: yeah Apr 03 10:41:36 bq27200 has been stuck at 6% battery for 9 hours with the mugen battery, bme is saying 17% :-) Apr 03 10:41:39 wow Apr 03 10:41:51 nidO: or extending battery life by charging to only 90% Apr 03 10:41:55 i'm kinda suprised that's economical Apr 03 10:42:04 BCMM: my bank insures my blackberry + n900 for 17 quid a year Apr 03 10:42:36 nidO: no, thats BS. You got a bq24150 to care for battery, and you can do all nasty you every *could* do no matter bme is open or not Apr 03 10:42:54 crashanddie: for enough to replace them, including loss? Apr 03 10:43:11 BCMM: loss and theft Apr 03 10:43:13 bq24150 reduces the amount of nasty you could do very considerably though Apr 03 10:43:14 BCMM: that is seperate insurance. google cusc foneguarg Apr 03 10:43:24 BCMM: that is seperate insurance. google cusc foneguard Apr 03 10:43:25 BCMM: not wear and tear though Apr 03 10:43:28 how much of the battery stuff is in software? perhaps it is possible to overcharge it? Apr 03 10:43:40 it would be a kinda stupid not to have a hardware device stopping that Apr 03 10:43:42 but not unheard of Apr 03 10:44:08 I suspect you could probably trickle-charge the battery, which wouldn't be good on its life Apr 03 10:44:11 DocScrutinizer: btw do you know where one can (cheaply) order charger plugs for the adapter, either 2.5 or 3.5mm? Apr 03 10:44:31 cehteh, you mean like the one included? Apr 03 10:44:32 i dont know exactly what variant that is in length and diameter of the pin and so on Apr 03 10:44:42 cehteh: try dealextreme Apr 03 10:44:45 you're missing the point. bq24150 reducing the possibility, it being unlikely, = irrelevant. Nokia want to be as absolutely positive as possible that some tinkerer doesnt manage to burn their house down, as incredibly unlikely as it may be or not. Apr 03 10:44:49 they've got loads of cheap crap Apr 03 10:44:56 germany Apr 03 10:45:04 they ship for free world wide Apr 03 10:45:06 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.29208 Apr 03 10:45:13 or ebay Apr 03 10:45:16 ShadowJK: the things which fit into the adapter Apr 03 10:45:22 newspaper headlines wont give a shit that the geek that died heavily modified their phone, the headline will only go as far as "its a nokia" Apr 03 10:45:39 we all saw exactly that with the exploding-batteries-in-nokias a year or two ago Apr 03 10:45:40 * ShadowJK is starting to suspect bme is talking to cellmo Apr 03 10:45:41 nidO: mission impossible Apr 03 10:46:03 where almost every headline conveniently didnt mention they were all aftermarket batteries, and badly hurt nokia's reputation as a result Apr 03 10:46:17 nidO: anyway, some nokia guys were positive about getting sysfs nodes for both bq-chips Apr 03 10:46:25 mhm maybe i have some plugs from a old ac adapter Apr 03 10:46:31 where they "proper" exploding batteries, like the dell fireballs? Apr 03 10:46:32 which would kill bme implicitly Apr 03 10:46:38 Hello all ! Apr 03 10:46:49 ^were Apr 03 10:46:56 BCMM in a lot of cases they were blow-the-phone-apart exploding batteries yeah Apr 03 10:47:00 heh Apr 03 10:47:14 those are kinda awesome; wouldn't want one in my pocket Apr 03 10:47:25 cehteh: conrad electronic Apr 03 10:47:34 yeah, i can imagine the media wouldn't want to let details interfere with something that eye-catching Apr 03 10:47:37 * SpeedEvil ponders the making of fireproof pocket liners. Apr 03 10:48:00 that would be an awesome demonstration on how open a device is; "and now, I will initiate a malfunction that will cause the device to explode" Apr 03 10:48:07 meh .. means 20 cent for the plug and 8Eur shipping or so Apr 03 10:48:13 heh Apr 03 10:48:17 hmm Apr 03 10:48:19 malware Apr 03 10:49:08 i mean, one reason to be really careful is so that it isn't possible to blow up people's phones over IRC Apr 03 10:49:21 "yeah, just type curl FOO | sh" Apr 03 10:49:26 "should fix it" Apr 03 10:50:07 you can destroy the flash led Apr 03 10:50:15 that's no reason to completely disable the function Apr 03 10:50:22 SpeedEvil: how come? Apr 03 10:51:21 battery can be drain fast too by some apps ... which will reduce his life ... i suggest to unactivate it to avoid such problem Apr 03 10:51:23 :) Apr 03 10:51:32 "And now, the penguin standing at your TV will explode..." Apr 03 10:51:48 Moo, Khertan Apr 03 10:51:55 BCMM: the flash is only rated for 0.5s Apr 03 10:52:01 Hi Rst38h! Apr 03 10:52:18 BCMM: if you flash 7200 times in a row, it will melt Apr 03 10:52:24 nidO: and you bet a set of proper sysfs nodes allowing to talk to the usb charger chip without doing something bad - this for sure is less dangerous than guys hacking away with nondocumented bme and making all kinds of mistakes (though even those can't simply make the cell go boom) Apr 03 10:52:59 see, it seems to me that the logical thing to do is let the software do whatever it wants, but have a very simple chip or circuit in the flash that doesn't let that happen Apr 03 10:53:37 BCMM: there is simple, and there is 'adds $.10 to the price.' Apr 03 10:53:44 yeah Apr 03 10:53:55 Arkenklo: not possible Apr 03 10:54:03 Bulletproof everything, and those .10s add up Apr 03 10:54:27 DocScrutinizer: huh? Apr 03 10:54:33 would have the advantage that faults in their own software wouldn't kill things either Apr 03 10:54:44 for example, my computer is running a completely open-source system Apr 03 10:55:01 but if i overheat it, the BIOS is going to poweroff regardless Apr 03 10:55:05 this is a good thing Apr 03 10:55:09 Arkenklo: ""initiate a malfunction that will cause the device to explode"" Apr 03 10:55:14 not possible Apr 03 10:55:49 DocScrutinizer: obviously, that's just an example Apr 03 10:56:12 why not? it's at least theoretically possible to mishandle a battery till it explodes Apr 03 10:56:28 NO it's NOT Apr 03 10:56:51 the hardware enforces the not explode condition. Apr 03 10:57:08 the worst you can do is wear the battery. Apr 03 10:57:20 unless you take a soldering iron and short all the saftety chips in phone and battery Apr 03 10:57:23 what if I've built in a small explosive charge that goes off when the load goes above a certain treshold? Apr 03 10:58:33 that's clearly a very nasty case of "take a soldering iron and short all the saftety chips in phone and battery" Apr 03 10:58:33 well, if the hardware actually does have a "don't explode" function, then i can indeed see no reason not to open it up Apr 03 10:59:00 exactly, now we talk Apr 03 10:59:14 you know, nearly any software-controlled explosion is amusing Apr 03 10:59:21 exploding USB stick Apr 03 11:00:11 BCMM: seem hardware has at least 3 such dont-explode safeguards Apr 03 11:00:23 heh, what was it? Apr 03 11:00:37 and for the battery, or something explodey-er Apr 03 11:02:33 oh, you said seem, not seen Apr 03 11:03:29 * SpeedEvil leaves to spread his (grass) seed on the ground. Apr 03 11:04:16 BCMM: seems was for the '3'. Maybe I'll count 5 in the end Apr 03 11:09:44 everybody dreaming of exploding batteries: get http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/lit/getliterature.tsp?genericPartNumber=bq24150&fileType=pdf Apr 03 11:10:36 this chip is designed for no-explode. from very beginning down to every single transistor Apr 03 11:11:28 What fun is not exploding? Apr 03 11:17:26 RX-99! Apr 03 11:17:36 * RST38h hides Apr 03 11:20:07 http://mynokiablog.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/nokia-rx-992.jpg?w=536 Apr 03 11:20:41 Looks like N900 with power button at the other side Apr 03 11:21:05 64GB Apr 03 11:21:10 nom Apr 03 11:21:22 am nom nom nom Apr 03 11:21:37 Awww... I shoulda waited a few months to get my N900 :p Apr 03 11:22:10 > 1200 mAh plsssss Apr 03 11:22:21 what does n900 pays these days? Apr 03 11:22:23 * pupnik gets on knees Apr 03 11:22:44 * RST38h descends from the skies on a power cord Apr 03 11:27:33 * DocScrutinizer strips off the isolation from that power cord with his teeth, and attaches the blank ends to a ignition device Apr 03 11:27:38 's contacts Apr 03 11:28:16 * Arif_ yawns Apr 03 11:28:29 let's see what's up there to blast away Apr 03 11:30:23 guys, what part of the desktop is the region which has the date applet Apr 03 11:30:29 is it the status bar? Apr 03 11:31:16 * janneg suspects that the RX-99 will be released in 363 days as N0104 Apr 03 11:32:15 yes Apr 03 11:32:42 sounds like a great model name Apr 03 11:33:04 is it possible to write a qt application to display a second time applet for a second time zone. Apr 03 11:33:32 yes Apr 03 11:33:49 you can set timezones in the clock, so probably yes Apr 03 11:33:53 at least in theory Apr 03 11:34:22 http://meegonews.com/2010/03/31/meego-summit-2010-in-planning-for-oct-2010/ Apr 03 11:34:55 though clock eats up so much space in systray, you probably will hear comments like "why isn't that a widget?" Apr 03 11:35:43 I'd like a battery indicator on the slide to unlock screen ;( Apr 03 11:35:51 hrm, don't suppose there's a way to reassign the volume and camera button under media player? Apr 03 11:35:57 I want a puppy. Apr 03 11:36:03 prev, next and pause would be handy :P Apr 03 11:36:13 I want a box full of N900 Apr 03 11:36:18 * SpeedEvil is having stir-fry tonight. Apr 03 11:36:24 haltdef, use spacebar and arrows! Apr 03 11:36:32 no, messy Apr 03 11:36:33 DocScrutinizer: but you have one! Apr 03 11:36:45 not exactly Apr 03 11:37:02 DocScrutinizer: :/ Apr 03 11:37:16 oh - working n900s Apr 03 11:37:43 actually. the screen in direct sun is ok Apr 03 11:37:51 colours are a bit wierd Apr 03 11:37:52 I want a DSi XL in white :( Apr 03 11:38:03 DocScrutinizer: this example of QStatusbar seems to suggest that the statusbar is a the bottom. http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/How_to_use_QStatusBar_on_Qt_for_Maemo Apr 03 11:38:51 trumee: or am i looking at the wrong class. Apr 03 11:39:02 in sunlight, backlight off and full on are not differentiable. Apr 03 11:39:06 DocScrutinizer: or am i looking at the wrong class. Apr 03 11:39:53 trumee: sw-devel ignorant here, sorry Apr 03 11:41:11 trumee: probably that's legacy from desktop-qt doc, if it says status bar is lower end of screen Apr 03 11:42:33 trumme: This is the application-specific status bar Apr 03 11:42:36 NOT system wide Apr 03 11:42:47 trumee: nah, that's not the systray of N900 desktop Apr 03 11:42:57 And I doubt it will be included into the UI style guide Apr 03 11:43:25 looks like a standard status bar found in desktop windows (your desktop FireFox has it) Apr 03 11:43:43 RST38h: how do i add a second clock using qt code? Apr 03 11:43:44 yep Apr 03 11:44:19 trumee: How do I know? Apr 03 11:44:38 qt-maemo is all silent today. Apr 03 11:46:14 trumee: I'd suggest you study a few programs that actually add something to systray (e.g. load applet). Dunno if some of them are qt-based yet Apr 03 11:47:19 sounds like a great model name Apr 03 11:47:25 the N8-00 sounds better Apr 03 11:47:37 en eight dash zero zero? Apr 03 11:47:44 * MohammadAG_ goes to to local phone shop and says "I want a Nokia N8 dash double 0" Apr 03 11:47:56 Arif_: DSi XL is crap Apr 03 11:48:09 en eight dash-toilet Apr 03 11:48:31 crashanddie, not much choice when the only alternative is a psp with 3 games released for it ;( Apr 03 11:48:47 Arif_: go for the regular DSi Apr 03 11:48:47 Arif_, get a Pandora :P Apr 03 11:48:55 Arif_: and the PSP has heaps of games for it Apr 03 11:49:06 most are PS2 ports ;( Apr 03 11:49:14 why go for the normal DSi Apr 03 11:49:17 iPad anyone?..... anyone?.... ok maybe not Apr 03 11:49:18 Arif_, some of them are awesome Apr 03 11:49:19 I want the bigger screens =D Apr 03 11:49:30 MohammadAG, yeah there are some good games Apr 03 11:49:34 but I already played them :D Apr 03 11:49:34 Arif_: get a gameboy Apr 03 11:49:37 Arif_, get a PS3 :p Apr 03 11:49:39 lol Apr 03 11:49:48 I have a GB color sitting here somewhere Apr 03 11:50:03 Mario Bros DX <3 Apr 03 11:50:27 Get a portable atari Apr 03 11:50:34 what about a Nomad Apr 03 11:50:36 =P Apr 03 11:51:00 Amiga A50K portable Apr 03 11:51:12 * Arif_ buys a Dingoo Apr 03 11:51:18 just stop being a nerd and playing on go, get yourself a ps3 and a book Apr 03 11:51:33 s/ go/ the go/ Apr 03 11:51:33 crashanddie meant: just stop being a nerd and playing on the go, get yourself a ps3 and a book Apr 03 11:51:42 ~thanks Apr 03 11:51:42 crashanddie: no problem Apr 03 11:51:42 or even better, a book about ps3 Apr 03 11:52:01 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Gbck7B7B Apr 03 11:52:07 crashanddie, umm, why the book lol Apr 03 11:52:10 anyone know why that would happen Apr 03 11:52:23 MohammadAG_: to have something to do while you're on the go? Apr 03 11:52:29 ive done apt-get update / dist-upgrade Apr 03 11:52:34 seems everything is up to date Apr 03 11:52:36 I don't want to be a part of killing allt hose trees! :( Apr 03 11:52:41 MohammadAG_: to test how much the brain degrades from one day to another Apr 03 11:52:44 but i cant find libqt4 from /usr/lib Apr 03 11:53:04 crashanddie, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9sXhYlIfRY Apr 03 11:53:08 Pforce: is the error message not descriptive enough? Apr 03 11:53:22 reading a book is a bit hard when your sight is craptastic, too Apr 03 11:53:23 ={ Apr 03 11:53:23 see crashanddie? a book isn't necessary Apr 03 11:53:40 Arif_: ahh yes. I remember Apr 03 11:53:45 Arif_: genetic? Apr 03 11:53:48 Arif_: oh fuck off with that lame excuse Apr 03 11:54:07 Arif_: saying you can't read a book because your eyesight is crap is about as credible as saying you're a fat fuck because of a glandular problem. Apr 03 11:54:29 crashanddie, I really can't... Apr 03 11:54:44 you don't want to read a book, but you don't mind playing around with an n900 and psp/nintendo ds? bollocks Apr 03 11:55:08 they're not exactly the same are they? Apr 03 11:55:17 says a lot about how much Arif_ loves the N900 Apr 03 11:55:49 crashanddie: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ADMfm5jV Apr 03 11:55:56 crashanddie: I think thats a bit rude, what if there were overweight people in this channel. You've just alienated them by calling them fat fucks. And then you insult someone by saying its bullshit that they can't read a book. Sorry Mr. Perfect Vision Apr 03 11:55:57 i cannot upgrade what it wants Apr 03 11:56:04 thats why im asking why is that Apr 03 11:56:27 Termana: no I insulted obese people who use stupid excuses for their lack of will Apr 03 11:56:28 and why qt is not coming to me with dist-upgrade Apr 03 11:57:04 Termana: why can't people just admit they can't be bothered to read a book? Get a kindle and you can have the print size you want, regardless of the book Apr 03 11:57:31 humans have macro zoom capabilities Apr 03 11:57:40 just bring the book closer or further away from their eyes Apr 03 11:57:56 did qt have its own maemo channel Apr 03 11:57:59 i cant remember Apr 03 11:58:07 or a dev channel for maemo Apr 03 11:58:11 yes Pforce #qt-maemo Apr 03 11:58:14 but whats your boggle Apr 03 11:58:15 thanks Apr 03 11:58:28 did it get lost in the boofight Apr 03 11:58:31 book Apr 03 11:58:42 yes :) Apr 03 11:58:43 it was a boofight too :P Apr 03 11:58:56 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ADMfm5jV + http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ADMfm5jV Apr 03 11:59:09 so i think i got the pr1.2 stuff Apr 03 11:59:20 but i cant find libqt* from /usr/lib Apr 03 11:59:33 when i try get it manually it says that Apr 03 11:59:37 ahh on the device? Apr 03 11:59:49 no in sdk Apr 03 11:59:54 scratchbox Apr 03 12:00:12 ive must have fucked something up with the deps Apr 03 12:00:25 looks that way - but those links are about sqlite Apr 03 12:00:26 not about qt Apr 03 12:00:40 yes well libqt4-dev needs sqlite Apr 03 12:01:04 at its too old in my scratchbox, when i go to update it it says sqlite is latest version Apr 03 12:01:09 kind of a funny situation Apr 03 12:01:34 which sqlite does it need Apr 03 12:01:48 cos it is the latest for maemo at least Apr 03 12:01:50 http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=libsqlite3 Apr 03 12:02:53 yeah 3.6.14 seems not to be enough for libqt4. ugh Apr 03 12:03:06 is there an easy way to reset scratchbox :) Apr 03 12:03:17 could do remove to sqlite stuff and try dist upgrade then Apr 03 12:03:29 qt should come with that but its not doing that Apr 03 12:03:44 i have extras and devel-extras as sources Apr 03 12:03:58 doesnt qt have its own sqlite? Apr 03 12:04:22 i think when you build qt, you can define it you want it to use sys sqlite Apr 03 12:04:30 in configure Apr 03 12:08:28 Pforce, mmm perhaps you are caught up in the sdl upgrade Apr 03 12:08:53 but the qt sqlite requires the correct version of sqlite3 Apr 03 12:08:58 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/libqt4-maemo5-sql-sqlite/4.6.2~git20100212-0maemo1/ Apr 03 12:09:22 (dependencies shown there etc) Apr 03 12:09:48 maemo packages interface is quite nice and helpful :) Apr 03 12:09:49 yeah, i think thats old due name has maemo5? wasnt it that they are now without maemo5 Apr 03 12:10:01 http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/04/01/pr-12-sdk-for-maemo-released-with-qt-46/ Apr 03 12:10:11 but anyways deps are prolly the same Apr 03 12:10:29 so according to that 3.6.14 should be enough, and i have that Apr 03 12:10:46 maybe i just boot up a new VM sdk and try with a fresh start :) Apr 03 12:11:03 i just build a lot of stuff inside that like ogre, boost, poco etc :( Apr 03 12:11:05 crashanddie: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=379649&postcount=6 Apr 03 12:11:15 will have to go trought the trouble again Apr 03 12:12:32 thats messed up to shout to him without knowing the full situation :P Apr 03 12:12:57 he left too without saying anything Apr 03 12:14:25 DocScrutinizer: and? Apr 03 12:15:27 crashanddie, i think the general feeling is you shout at people and generally act in an arrogant and condescending manner Apr 03 12:17:04 probably books tend to be problematic, without some additional help like a N900-magnifying-glass app Apr 03 12:17:04 people come here for help, you saying read a book blind bat or something doesent really help :) just saying Apr 03 12:18:02 Morning, all Apr 03 12:18:21 DocScrutinizer, a proper using camer magnifier for real world stuff, or an onscreen app to magnify onscreen stuff Apr 03 12:18:25 morning jaffa \o Apr 03 12:18:37 Morningish, I guess Apr 03 12:18:42 or should i say, morning sith-lord jaffa \o Apr 03 12:19:08 At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we shall have our revenge. Apr 03 12:19:33 as long as jarjar binks snt around we are ok Apr 03 12:20:02 Anyone got, or know of, any photos of javispedro or achipa? Possibly from the summits? Apr 03 12:20:39 javispedro is illusive, i tried taking a photo of him but it turned out blank Apr 03 12:20:46 and for some reason i couldnt see him in a mirror Apr 03 12:20:52 I have uploaded a number of new screenshots to a wiki.maemo.org wiki page. They replace screenshorts from an earlier version of my program. THe updated images appear on the wiki page for a few minutes, afterwhich the wiki reverts to showing the old version of the images. Does anyone have any idea what might cause that? The log for the image file lists the newly uploaded versions, but the old versions are still displayed, even after clearing the brows Apr 03 12:20:52 er cache, etc. Apr 03 12:21:37 Ken-Young, i know the description fields do that - cos it automatically refreshes them from the package itself Apr 03 12:21:43 but i'd not heard of it for photos Apr 03 12:21:56 ahh on the wiki, not sure Apr 03 12:21:58 link? Apr 03 12:22:01 Ken-Young: Done a shift-reload in your browser to ensure that no intermediary caches are the problem? Apr 03 12:22:12 lcuk, Yeah - the problem is image only. THe text changes on the wiki work properly. Apr 03 12:22:58 Ken-Young: what sort of isp Apr 03 12:23:34 Ken-Young: some vcell prolviders do dodgy image compression, which might break Apr 03 12:23:35 Jaffa, shift-reload doesn't fix it. The very odd thing is that the new versions show up for a while, 10 minutes or so, and then the wiki starts fetching the old versions again. Apr 03 12:23:47 you're on a uni network? every possibility theres a proxy cache in your way Apr 03 12:24:09 * RST38h suspects proxy cache has nothing to do with this Apr 03 12:24:14 Ken-Young, this thread is useless without links Apr 03 12:24:18 limk, with description of new img? Apr 03 12:24:21 Ken-Young: try accessing that page via https:// Apr 03 12:25:09 lcuk, This is the page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Orrery Apr 03 12:25:29 whatre the differences between the new/old pictures Apr 03 12:26:11 Ken-Young, which pics specifically Apr 03 12:26:12 lcuk: checked the name of my blog lately? Apr 03 12:26:31 nidO, both new and old are screenshots. The differences are minor changes introduced in a newer version of the app. Apr 03 12:26:43 yes crashanddie :) i know thats how you are, but plenty of people dont like that sort of attitude when they want to talk with others Apr 03 12:27:17 To quote the great Jeremius Clarksonius, "Not my problem". Apr 03 12:27:19 lcuk, https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:OrreryOtherPagesMenu.png among others. Apr 03 12:27:35 Ken-Young - I see the new images fine Apr 03 12:28:34 nidO, How do you know you're seeing the new version? Apr 03 12:29:07 because im looking at what you uploaded 2 hours ago according to the recent changes, and whats on the page itself is the same Apr 03 12:29:28 i see 3 variations of the same file in history - appear to be identical Apr 03 12:29:49 lcuk, Yup, that's the problem. They aren't identical. Apr 03 12:29:55 * lcuk nods Apr 03 12:30:13 "My neighbourhood has been overrun by baboons" Apr 03 12:30:18 lcuk, It's just fetching the same, old image, no matter which you select. Apr 03 12:30:35 Ken-Young: we need specifics on a change in at least one image here. Apr 03 12:30:37 ken, just as a test - upload the new image but with a new filename Apr 03 12:30:50 the easiest way is to tell us the time shown in the old image and new one Apr 03 12:30:50 so we can see its difference Apr 03 12:30:59 http://imagebin.com Apr 03 12:31:15 woops Apr 03 12:31:18 http://imagebin.org Apr 03 12:33:04 http://imagebin.org/91450 shows what *should* appear. Apr 03 12:35:53 mind if I try re-upping that image? Apr 03 12:36:18 nidO, Please do! Apr 03 12:36:40 jaffa fancy taking a quick poll :D http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49076 Apr 03 12:37:39 right iv reuploaded OrreyOtherPagesMenu.png and the new image is displaying fine in both the file history and main wiki page for me atm Apr 03 12:38:14 nidO, It works when I upload it too, but then reverts to the old version 10 or 15 minutes later. Apr 03 12:38:23 lets give it 10 or 15 mins then :p Apr 03 12:39:25 give it an hour for the change to propagate over the cdn/cache? Apr 03 12:39:28 nidO, I wonder if the fact that I've updated about a dozen images in quick succession triggers some sort of spam protection that kicks in and deletes my new versions. Apr 03 12:39:40 Ken-Young: browsershits.org Apr 03 12:39:42 Ken-Young: browsershots.org Apr 03 12:39:54 * lcuk waves at frals \o Apr 03 12:40:05 * frals waves at lcuk o/ Apr 03 12:40:08 frals, I did the original image uploads 8 hours or so ago. Apr 03 12:40:28 ah, id poke X-Fade or whoevers responsible for the wiki in that case Apr 03 12:40:55 well lets see if it just doesnt like ken first Apr 03 12:41:09 SpeedEvil, Wow - browsershits seems available. I'm gonna register that puppy. Apr 03 12:41:56 lcuk: good point ;) Apr 03 12:42:16 lcuk: answered to your virii/fora questions :) Apr 03 12:42:25 :D Apr 03 12:42:28 i saw seb Apr 03 12:42:49 Ah, the ritual of poking X-Fade has finally been invoked Apr 03 12:43:10 X-Fade poke X-Fade poke X-Fade poke X-Fade poke X-Fade poke X-Fade poke X-Fade poke X-Fade poke X-Fade poke X-Fade Apr 03 12:44:14 ~poke crashanddie Apr 03 12:44:15 * infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind crashanddie, pokes crashanddie repeatedly, hilarity ensues. Apr 03 12:44:21 :DE Apr 03 12:45:12 And ehlo VDVsx Apr 03 12:45:33 hey RST38h :) Apr 03 12:45:51 lcuk: Is that the fora one? Missing option: "depends how pretentious, smug and superior I'm feeling" ;-) Apr 03 12:45:54 hi, i enabled the "tools" repository at my tablet, what key do i need? (following packages could not be authenticated...) Apr 03 12:46:07 isn't poking x-fade like talking about candleja Apr 03 12:46:20 LuciusMare: Doesn't really matter, you can ignore the warning. Apr 03 12:46:26 lol jaffa Apr 03 12:46:46 LuciusMare: To make the warning go away you'd need to import the GPG key of the repo (if there is one) Apr 03 12:47:06 Yes, I know, I just dont know what key :) Apr 03 12:47:55 After I mv'ed and ln -s'ed /var/cache/apt and /var/lib/apt to /home I started playing with what's to install. I found the qdebusviewer and like to thank who ever packaged it! Apr 03 12:48:01 mmm i used to add sdk and tools all the time for my device? Apr 03 12:48:17 or was that in app manager? Apr 03 12:48:17 it will make things much easier Apr 03 12:53:46 lcuk: where's the odz app? Is it in extras or extras-test? Apr 03 12:54:45 testing as well as devel Apr 03 12:54:56 i have been busy with other matters recently Apr 03 12:59:12 what are they really. ... what.... matters Apr 03 12:59:47 * lcuk goes feeding ducks Apr 03 12:59:51 and to the fair Apr 03 12:59:56 enjoy gub Apr 03 12:59:58 guv** Apr 03 13:00:07 how much does n900 cost in emirates? Apr 03 13:00:32 didn't see it Apr 03 13:00:44 i purchased one here in Russia for $620, and it was imported from emirates Apr 03 13:01:06 nidO, The version of the image you uploaded is still being displayed. I'm going to try modifying one image per hour, and see if that works. Thank you for your help! Apr 03 13:01:11 so it must be really cheap there Apr 03 13:01:19 Arkenoi, you should be on the map then! http://pininthemap.com/maemo Apr 03 13:01:44 (theres a lack of russian participation when we know russians have devices) Apr 03 13:02:03 cya later seb \o and everyone else too Apr 03 13:02:12 in soviet russia, n900 participates you? Apr 03 13:02:16 take care lcuk Apr 03 13:08:30 Oh, and, anybody successefully dualbooted a different system at n900 off the microsd card? Apr 03 13:10:00 go for it Apr 03 13:11:25 nidO, I spoke too soon. Now the wiki has reverted to the old image, ignoring the new version that you uploaded for me. Apr 03 13:12:17 So it lasted about 1/2 hour. Apr 03 13:13:44 so, the N900 was overclocked Apr 03 13:13:59 * MohammadAG_ wonders how long it will be till the poster says it got fried Apr 03 13:14:55 you overclocked your n900? Apr 03 13:21:39 LuciusMare, not me Apr 03 13:21:58 LuciusMare, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=592745#post592745 Apr 03 13:22:21 anyone gotten the odz app working? Apr 03 13:22:52 on snow leopard, that is Apr 03 13:30:53 * RST38h asks the Tentacled One to suck whatever passes for the brain in Gizmodo editors Apr 03 13:32:28 Engadget too, please. Apr 03 13:35:04 Hi! Apr 03 13:35:14 RST38h, ipad stuff ? :D Apr 03 13:35:15 I have annoying problem with hildon Apr 03 13:35:41 if application is written in plain X wthout toolkit Apr 03 13:35:59 then no application button on task manager pannel appeared Apr 03 13:36:09 and i could find it only with wmctrl Apr 03 13:36:27 anybody knows how to fix this shit? Apr 03 13:39:29 VDVsx: Yep. I wonder if they have got an appl-efree rss feed. This is getting ridiculous. Apr 03 13:40:53 any progress on running iphone apps? Apr 03 13:41:08 RST38h, I think you can do that for engadget at least Apr 03 13:41:09 I mean projects aiming at. Apr 03 13:43:01 hey, anyone aware of a card transaction gateway application Apr 03 13:43:51 VDVsx: Searching for the proper feed url as we speak, but no doughnut so far Apr 03 13:45:07 RST38h, there's like a exclude link, not sure how it work with rss, but works in the website Apr 03 13:45:30 hmmm Apr 03 13:45:37 I've seen this for M$ stuff, I hope there's one for apple as well :D Apr 03 13:46:13 RST38h, http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/02/sick-of-all-the-apple-news-were-here-for-you/ Apr 03 13:46:15 ehehe Apr 03 13:46:27 hey a quick question, any idea as to why i can't install quite a lot of stuff in the repositories? Apr 03 13:46:43 adalal: are you root? Apr 03 13:47:00 Arkenklo: yeah... this is through the app manager Apr 03 13:47:18 Arkenklo: apparently, the dependencies aren't being fulfilled, i've installed them before Apr 03 13:49:12 it sounds like a problem you'd get by messing around with repositories Apr 03 13:49:14 VDVsx: cooooooooooool Apr 03 13:51:05 LOL /exclude/exclude switches to Apple only news Apr 03 13:52:43 All righty, Apple is gone. Apr 03 13:52:55 Now just need to do the same with Gizmodo... Apr 03 14:02:55 why is microb text-select broken? i click on arrow then drag over text ... and the WEBPAGE MOVES Apr 03 14:04:26 pupnik, because the arrow state is fscking confusing? Apr 03 14:04:36 The icon makes no sense, the action when you activate it makes no sense. Apr 03 14:05:37 if the icon goes away then you're not using the arrow Apr 03 14:06:53 Ken-Young: I'm seeing the same problems with photos I updated yesterday Apr 03 14:07:13 Ken-Young: X-Fade: the wiki photos I updated yesterday (such as http://wiki.maemo.org/images/e/e9/Mcc-andrew_flegg.jpg) have completed reverted Apr 03 14:07:15 * GeneralAntilles wonders why the Android trolling blog post on Planet is getting so many hearts. Apr 03 14:08:14 GeneralAntilles: yo! i mean whats the deal? it is seriously up to chance whether it selects or drags Apr 03 14:08:31 pupnik, UI designers being too clever. Apr 03 14:08:41 and i dont see people complaining Apr 03 14:09:41 Jaffa, I finally gave up, and am taking the sledgehammer approach. I'm uploading the images with new names, and updating the wiki text to point to the new names. Apr 03 14:10:00 * Jaffa wonders if X-Fade is awake. Apr 03 14:10:02 General: Maybe everyone is fed up with critical Maemo bugs and shortcomings going unresolved for months? Apr 03 14:10:04 ~seen X-Fade Apr 03 14:10:07 x-fade is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 170 messages. Is idling for 1d 4h 33m 12s, last said: 'talmai: Can you try again?'. Apr 03 14:13:35 Jaffa, Thanks for letting me know you see the same problem. I was starting to feel picked on. Apr 03 14:22:34 OMG: "However people had travelled to the US from around the world to purchase a device. " -> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8601679.stm Apr 03 14:23:06 RST38h, meh Apr 03 14:23:39 GAN900: Do you know if there are some MIME type icons in the wiki already, for little icons for http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Javispedro/Community_Council#Media Apr 03 14:23:54 VDVsx, it would've been easier if they imported it lol Apr 03 14:24:15 Jaffa, should be Apr 03 14:24:38 GAN900: Know how/where? :-) Apr 03 14:25:07 Jaffa, we lost all of the CSS for that stuff when X-Fade nuked the default stylesheet to keep it from trampling all over the maemo.org CSS Apr 03 14:25:19 um, not sure they're actually in the db Apr 03 14:25:26 May just be on the server. Apr 03 14:25:39 Check the mediawiki stylesheet. Apr 03 14:25:57 GAN900: Aha: http://wiki.maemo.org/skins/common/images/icons/ Apr 03 14:25:59 GAN900: Ta Apr 03 14:27:25 hi all , I need some programing help Apr 03 14:27:53 I plan to use dbus-script to trigger openvpn connection when connected via gprs or wifi Apr 03 14:28:34 who can I tell if I move from a gprs to a wifi connection and I am still connected - and dont need to stop openvpn? Apr 03 14:30:54 so I basicly want to make a note and leave openvpn running as long as one connection is up Apr 03 14:31:28 but dbus last messge is that a connection went idle.... Apr 03 14:36:30 is the CPU physically near the camera? Apr 03 14:38:07 lcuk: hehe, me too :) Apr 03 14:41:23 MohammadAG_: hi , can you spare 5 min pls? Apr 03 14:41:43 shoot Apr 03 14:42:07 I want to control openvpn from a bash script Apr 03 14:42:25 I am using dbus-script to call a bash script Apr 03 14:42:50 when gprs is CONNECTED I spin openvpn with start Apr 03 14:42:58 bah shortest trip ever - its raining Apr 03 14:43:04 w00t_, you too what? Apr 03 14:43:26 but , when I switch to wifi, first the script is called with - CONNECTED Apr 03 14:43:41 then the script is called when gprs goes idle Apr 03 14:44:15 lcuk: stayed up rather late/early Apr 03 14:44:20 so, I want to keep opevpn runing , yet I got a idle call - which usually trigers openvpn stop Apr 03 14:44:35 well atm I'm following, but I'm not sure if I can help with this Apr 03 14:44:38 how can I keep a record and know what to do? Apr 03 14:44:41 w00t_, not really extra late/early i just posted for once instead :) i read most nights Apr 03 14:45:20 another nightowl, eh? Apr 03 14:45:21 how can I make a note? echo "gprs whent idle">>/var/tmp/openvpn.status Apr 03 14:45:37 and how to edit it ? Apr 03 14:46:42 cityligh1s, you're better off asking someone else, and I'm sure if anyone knew they'd answer :) Apr 03 14:46:45 MohammadAG_: I mean that if my script is , it makes a note that wifi is connected, then when gprs goes idle it will remeber that wifi is on and leave openvpn running Apr 03 14:46:54 Personally, I don't know, :( Apr 03 14:47:05 thaks Apr 03 14:47:23 I need some why to store status Apr 03 14:48:38 s/why/way Apr 03 14:48:46 cityligh1s: do you already know how to detect if gprs is idle? Apr 03 14:49:13 kpel: dbus-scripts will call my script with gprs and idle Apr 03 14:49:35 then I can create a file that will act as a flag Apr 03 14:49:51 otherwise I can read gconf - right? Apr 03 14:49:54 cityligh1s: ok, then once you get the indication that gprs is idle can't you grep the output of ifconfig to see if wlan is on? Apr 03 14:50:18 hmm - good idea Apr 03 14:51:27 i'm not sure what exactly you want but you can grep the output of ifconfig either to check if wifi is on or if it is on and connected (i.e. an IP is assigned to the wlan interface) Apr 03 14:51:47 if you have iwconfig installed you can even check the nme of the wlan you are connected to. Apr 03 14:52:01 kpel: I want openvpn to run when there is an internet connection Apr 03 14:52:17 so after gprs is established - openvpn wil start Apr 03 14:52:39 otherwise if wifi is connected ->openvpn will start Apr 03 14:53:30 issue is when one of them goes idle. I first get a msg that the other is connected and then I get a msg that the other went odle Apr 03 14:53:33 idle Apr 03 14:53:50 so I need to keep track of them both Apr 03 14:53:51 i wonder if there is already a way to call scripts/commands right after a network interface comes up. i think there is setup script somewhere Apr 03 14:54:05 dbus-scripts Apr 03 14:54:24 ok, you solved that problem then Apr 03 14:54:32 not yet Apr 03 14:55:00 I need to supply a script to fugure out the situation Apr 03 14:55:17 so as to stop openvpn only when no connection is present Apr 03 14:55:23 what happens if you start gprs, start openvpn, and then for some reason(e.g. poor signal) the gprs connection is lost? Apr 03 14:55:49 I corrently act by the last msg I got Apr 03 14:55:56 do you shutdown openvpn, then scan for available wlan? Apr 03 14:55:58 so when I get idle - I stop openvpn Apr 03 14:56:41 I dont know how to store info in a file Apr 03 14:57:06 I will just touch files then see if they exist , and remove them Apr 03 14:57:20 i don't understand why an idle connection should be the same thing as a lost connection. Apr 03 14:57:24 I rather have all this info in one file Apr 03 14:57:46 kpel - this is the sort of messgaes dbus supplies Apr 03 14:58:17 cityligh1s: what device do you have? N900? Apr 03 14:58:33 N900 Apr 03 14:59:02 is there anything in /etc/network ? Apr 03 14:59:06 moo Apr 03 14:59:34 hello javispedro \o Apr 03 15:00:05 kpel: yes , ovcoiurse Apr 03 15:01:03 cityligh1s: i don't have an N900 but I think you can add your scripts in /etc/network if all you care about is the state of the interfaces (up or down) Apr 03 15:01:04 btw, how to add screenshots to Fremantle apps in downloads? For some reason, Midgard tells me I don't have enough permission to neither add new products nor edit existing ones. Apr 03 15:01:06 * pupnik plays a fanfare for javispedro Apr 03 15:01:41 morning pupnik Apr 03 15:02:04 i'm not sure i understand the reason dbus reports a connection as idle if it is actually gone Apr 03 15:04:16 ooooo good news is joikuspot works :D yay! Apr 03 15:04:31 woohoo Apr 03 15:04:39 :D :D - and pretty good speeds to :D Apr 03 15:05:07 * noobmonk3y wonders how long his battery will last ;) Apr 03 15:05:09 does it affect the battery of the phone too much? Apr 03 15:05:11 * javispedro thinks someone messed his midgard permissions Apr 03 15:05:16 ah, though the same Apr 03 15:05:21 thought* Apr 03 15:05:29 saying that, the latest update seems alot better on the battery] Apr 03 15:05:49 its only using 1% cpu Apr 03 15:06:24 think the first version sat around 4-%, so definite improvement Apr 03 15:06:29 40% Apr 03 15:06:30 good stuff Apr 03 15:09:11 ah well, somebody already posted the 800mhz omap3 kernel to the crazy overclockers thread Apr 03 15:09:20 * javispedro was counting down for that Apr 03 15:10:12 * noobmonk3y will brb Apr 03 15:14:36 Ken-Young: Can you raise a high priority bug against the wiki for the picture thing? Apr 03 15:15:56 javispedro: got any news about OC tests on an actual N900? Apr 03 15:16:28 pupnik: you will be able to read them when all the crazy overclockers start frying theirs :) Apr 03 15:16:37 Jaffa Not right this moment, because I must dash off to change my work location, but I will later. Apr 03 15:16:57 Ken-Young: Thanks. If you could ping me the bug number when you have, I'd appreciate it. Apr 03 15:17:47 wonder if we will see mobiles with upgradeable cpus Apr 03 15:18:36 naaa, at least not until they are +$1200 Apr 03 15:18:59 Jaffa, Will do. Apr 03 15:19:43 the n900 has an upgradable cpu Apr 03 15:20:08 admittedly, not user replaceable. Apr 03 15:20:18 (for most users) Apr 03 15:20:35 really? Apr 03 15:21:21 hey guys, i appologise if this is offtopic, but does anyone here know which stores in the US carry the n900? Apr 03 15:21:43 fry's used to carry it, but I don't know if any have supplies left Apr 03 15:23:14 do i have to keep battery-graph / battery-eye open to do its logging, or do they have daemons? Apr 03 15:24:09 SpeedEvil: in a socket? Apr 03 15:24:39 no. Apr 03 15:24:56 which is why I said most users can't Apr 03 15:25:15 sheepbat: yeah.. i don't think there's any nearby here Apr 03 15:33:38 yup... joiku eats the battery lol Apr 03 15:33:44 10% in about 20 mins ;) Apr 03 15:33:44 hi i got issues wit my n900 Apr 03 15:33:53 it marks low memory Apr 03 15:33:55 JZA, it needs to see a doctor ;) Apr 03 15:34:15 and not sure how it got filled put Apr 03 15:34:15 low memory, or low rootfs space? :D Apr 03 15:34:59 well itmarks low memory but i think thats what it really means Apr 03 15:35:10 lcuk, battery-eye has a daemon atleast Apr 03 15:35:11 http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space Apr 03 15:35:27 what i wonder is how it got filled so quickly Apr 03 15:35:32 lcuk, the values are kinda lazily updated by bme when screen is off though.. like once every 2-4 hours or something Apr 03 15:35:34 yeah ShadowJK i just found out on the forums too thanks Apr 03 15:35:36 and never updated when charging Apr 03 15:35:36 i hyavent installed much Apr 03 15:35:43 jza - lots of things can cause it Apr 03 15:35:48 tis ok :) just trying different things Apr 03 15:35:52 have you got extras devel and testing enabled? Apr 03 15:36:02 yes Apr 03 15:36:14 just disabling them saves 10mb + :D Apr 03 15:36:22 only enable them when needed :D Apr 03 15:36:35 ok Apr 03 15:36:41 install python optify :D Apr 03 15:36:53 but theres other things you can do - all on the wiki page :D - http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space Apr 03 15:36:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnO4o3HuEzM Apr 03 15:37:08 RST38h, posting porn again? Apr 03 15:37:15 lcuk, Hello btw! Apr 03 15:37:20 ok good advicel I'll try that Apr 03 15:37:27 oh hai noobmonk3y Apr 03 15:37:32 JZA, More then welcome :D Apr 03 15:37:44 lcuk, on joiku in butlins, pretty impressed with it :D Apr 03 15:38:13 * lcuk o_O nice Apr 03 15:38:25 why arent you chasing the red coats around Apr 03 15:38:27 tis 3g, but getting 600k/b a sec, so more then happy Apr 03 15:38:32 lol cos they aint here Apr 03 15:38:40 yellow coats? Apr 03 15:38:40 christians....... Apr 03 15:38:42 took over Apr 03 15:38:48 its butlins? Apr 03 15:40:08 yeah, christian festival Apr 03 15:40:18 20k of them Apr 03 15:40:22 so lots of bibles Apr 03 15:42:18 Jaffa: testing the rss -> forum feature? Apr 03 15:42:53 javispedro: Yeah ;-) Apr 03 15:43:29 noobmonk3y, ahhh so they cleared out and you are just using the site Apr 03 15:44:02 yup, still got some entertainment...... so will be swimming later :D - and the bowlong alley etc still open.... Apr 03 15:44:06 bowling* Apr 03 15:44:16 rest of the time is pyqt and photography, with a bit of kiting Apr 03 15:45:38 Yay, it worked :-) Apr 03 15:46:10 :D Apr 03 15:47:36 Jaffa: yeah. the use of "big brother"-like fictional usernames backs me off a bit though Apr 03 15:48:03 noobmonk3y, which butlins are you at then Apr 03 15:48:13 Jaffa: (reminds me of bmo's "qa" user) Apr 03 15:50:36 hmmmmmmmmm Apr 03 15:50:47 first joiku reboot....... Apr 03 15:51:02 actually first forced n900 reboot :( Apr 03 15:51:29 had to remove the battery to kick it back in too.... Apr 03 15:51:33 Noobmonk3y_, what are oyu using joiku for? 3g net tethering? Apr 03 15:51:39 yeah :) Apr 03 15:51:57 * lcuk just plugs n900 into usb and runs from that, it charges and tethers at same time Apr 03 15:52:04 need to remembe to add bootreason to the healthcheck Apr 03 15:52:18 not figure out how to do that Apr 03 15:52:27 its just an option in ubuntu Apr 03 15:52:32 will try it later. Apr 03 15:52:47 on the network list when i connect in pc suite mode i tihnk Apr 03 15:52:53 it just comes up and offers o2 prepaid Apr 03 15:53:13 cool. will reinstall nokia suite then Apr 03 15:53:21 i never put pcsuite on Apr 03 15:53:29 thats just on the n900 when i pluginusb Apr 03 15:53:53 Jaffa, The bug is 9833 Apr 03 15:54:16 bug 9833 Apr 03 15:54:18 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9833 maemo wiki does not allow image files to be replaced Apr 03 15:54:48 * lcuk wishes that worked on all irc channels Apr 03 15:54:57 but i suppose a plugin on xchat would do that Apr 03 16:00:13 Shit, how do I disable apple spam on Gizmodo? Apr 03 16:00:17 (in the rss feed that is) Apr 03 16:00:50 you hire a hitman and tell them not to post more apple ... news? Apr 03 16:01:38 javispedro: Is there a cleaner way, one that does not involve dirtying oneself with their bodily fluids? Apr 03 16:01:43 "apple's new iCon!" Apr 03 16:02:59 * javispedro takes a quick look at gizmodo only to find the proportion of apple-non apple news to be "average" Apr 03 16:03:15 (aka 95% ;) ) Apr 03 16:03:57 these people are seriously sick Apr 03 16:04:38 *or* it is a cargo cult Apr 03 16:05:12 sorry to ask : was pr1.2 releed? Apr 03 16:05:15 relesed? Apr 03 16:05:52 no Apr 03 16:05:53 RST38h: a suggestion: do not argue with Arch people ;) Apr 03 16:06:05 am I arguing? =) Apr 03 16:06:10 * RST38h winks Apr 03 16:06:14 cityligh1s, I don't think so. Apr 03 16:06:40 RST38h : say I wanted to store the connection status for gprs and wifi in a bash script Apr 03 16:06:52 should I write it to a file and update that file? Apr 03 16:07:04 or is there a better way? Apr 03 16:07:20 I am gettign the status on dbus events Apr 03 16:08:09 so what is wrong with writing it to a file? Apr 03 16:09:01 RST38h: I am using dbus-scripts to catch dbus connection events, and using it to trigger openvpn stat/stop Apr 03 16:09:55 when I get gprs went idle it may mean that I switched to wifi, so I need to keep openvpn alive and not stop it Apr 03 16:10:17 yet sometimes gprs is done and no wifi is avail Apr 03 16:10:32 then I need to stop openvpn Apr 03 16:12:28 * javispedro must be dreaming. "why my next smartphone will be an android" in planet maemo Apr 03 16:13:15 * SpeedEvil wants an android running maemo. Apr 03 16:13:16 * ptl_demands_PR12 has read that and Nokia has been really dropping the ball. Apr 03 16:14:54 mameo.org content isn't decided by nokia.. Apr 03 16:17:41 PR1.2 content is :) Apr 03 16:18:17 The content is decided since february or something, and then they have to make it actually work :D Apr 03 16:18:59 ShadowJK: They have got More Important Things than making it work, remember that! Apr 03 16:19:13 like what Apr 03 16:19:57 coke and hookers. Apr 03 16:24:08 yeah, hookers make you thirsty Apr 03 16:24:38 * lcuk eats chocolate Apr 03 16:24:40 just be cateful. someone might slip you a bad one. Apr 03 16:24:50 with corn syrup sweetner. Apr 03 16:25:00 Be catful, lcuk Apr 03 16:25:00 yeah, i once asked for a coke and was given a pepsi instead Apr 03 16:25:04 i had such a bad night Apr 03 16:25:13 as in, full of cats, I guess Apr 03 16:25:29 catful. I like it. Apr 03 16:25:43 ...let that picture haunt you in your bad dreams... Apr 03 16:25:46 :D our cats brought us a gift this morning :D Apr 03 16:25:55 one of them had actually managed to catch a mouse Apr 03 16:26:04 does anyone know if hrw is emplied by Nokia? Apr 03 16:26:12 i think however hte mouse gave up and sat infront of cat Apr 03 16:26:16 they are normally too lazy Apr 03 16:26:19 did I show you that nice piece of Haiku someone posted to tmo? Apr 03 16:26:26 no Apr 03 16:26:27 The Comparable is that the video running on 16 bit Windows, you become like the image appears in the photo gallery of the N900. Apr 03 16:27:01 it's missing the carrier returns, feel free to put them where you see fit. Apr 03 16:28:12 pure poetry. Apr 03 16:29:49 wtf Apr 03 16:31:05 javispedro, link! Apr 03 16:31:19 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22you+become+like+the+image%22 ;) Apr 03 16:33:13 Ken-Young: Thanks Apr 03 16:35:05 * RST38h attempts to become like the image of Christ, fails to attain bidimensionality Apr 03 16:35:50 * SpeedEvil lends RST38h 4 nails. Apr 03 16:35:51 at least you managed to gain the required color bit depth? Apr 03 16:36:15 Shouldn't require much, should it? Apr 03 16:36:17 (or to use 16-bit Windows like 3.11. It was never clear what the intention was to me.) Apr 03 16:37:16 * javispedro has an stupid idea Apr 03 16:37:44 If Bochs is involved, don't. Apr 03 16:38:40 suppose I update the source of package, would it conflict with the original uploader if I uploaded it? or would the maintainer just change Apr 03 16:39:01 javispedro, playing video usually happens in yuv mode which has full 24bit gamut Apr 03 16:39:39 gonna name my dog gamut Apr 03 16:39:40 lcuk: exactly. xv goes straight to the omapc and thus can set even a 32bpp depth (that is, with an alpha channel) Apr 03 16:39:59 lcuk: thus my last question of a "test image" I can use to verify 16bpp vs 18bpp. Apr 03 16:40:05 cause clearly, it's not 24bpp (I can test that) Apr 03 16:40:10 but there is no alhpa overlay - i believe its just 24b Apr 03 16:40:36 lcuk: the omap dispc can be set up to do alpha blending Apr 03 16:40:46 on multiple "video windows" Apr 03 16:40:49 MohammadAG: To promote, the original maintainer has to press the button OR you should be added as maintainer Apr 03 16:40:51 which video mode/data format is yuva ? Apr 03 16:40:56 then either of you can promote Apr 03 16:41:02 and is the alpha channel at full or half resolution? Apr 03 16:41:15 lcuk: dunno ;) I only saw rgba Apr 03 16:41:24 yes rgba is different Apr 03 16:41:36 javispedro: it is a 16bpp panel Apr 03 16:41:39 32bit per pixel chunky format is nice Apr 03 16:42:00 lcuk: Not really, when you need to move 30 screenfuls a second Apr 03 16:42:00 RST38h: it might actually be 18bpp -- I have at this moment no way to deny or approve that. Apr 03 16:42:19 javispedro: Find the panel part number and check the net? =) Apr 03 16:42:24 RST38h: have the docs? Apr 03 16:42:34 javispedro: just specs should be sufficient Apr 03 16:42:35 RST38h, from a technical perspective the alignment and everything is a nice pure format Apr 03 16:42:45 i totally understand the limitations from bandwidth Apr 03 16:42:54 lcuk: Yea, but it is unnecessarily huge :) Apr 03 16:43:04 *nod* Apr 03 16:43:13 * RST38h curses Nokia for moving to 32bpp for the latest Symbian phones Apr 03 16:43:14 this battle was run on desktops years ago Apr 03 16:43:26 voodoo stuck with 16bit whilst nvidia went full 32bit Apr 03 16:43:42 * RST38h never had neither voodoo nor nvidia... Apr 03 16:43:55 Missed the war =) Apr 03 16:43:58 * lcuk runs all desktops in 16bit mode still Apr 03 16:44:11 yea, the LCD does not show more, on this laptop Apr 03 16:44:14 RST38h: the model no is acx565akm according to lma Apr 03 16:44:57 all I cound find is that it is from the "low power" sony series, thus chances of it being higher than 16 are dim (i wouldn't be surprised if it's even lower) Apr 03 16:44:59 a'ok Apr 03 16:45:20 ah, javis, but the answer is in the model number! Apr 03 16:45:27 5:6:5 :))) Apr 03 16:45:37 I though that, but seems it's just coincidence Apr 03 16:45:42 doubt it Apr 03 16:45:52 there's acx500akm model Apr 03 16:45:54 etc. Apr 03 16:46:08 so how come sending over a greyscale gradient looks better in yuv than rgb :p Apr 03 16:46:30 I guess it depends on who does the dithering Apr 03 16:46:47 well i can send over full 8bit values from 0 to 255 Apr 03 16:46:53 no dithering Apr 03 16:46:58 closest on 565 is 32grey Apr 03 16:47:59 i suppose i should try it agai nand attempt to count the bands Apr 03 16:48:08 to get tru visible depth Apr 03 16:48:22 * VDVsx hits lcuk with a b&w Tv :P Apr 03 16:48:37 then ill start adding color to the UV channels Apr 03 16:48:42 heh http://www.mobile-phone-lcd.com/nokia-n900-lcd-display-screen-hr-idus-p-331.html Apr 03 16:49:17 i needed high res simple grey plane when i got 810 Apr 03 16:49:26 i thought it would be the fastest mode for rendering what i wanted Apr 03 16:49:38 i would have actually been happy with a true single bitplane b&w Apr 03 16:51:37 who here has tried meego Apr 03 16:52:27 *strange silence* :D Apr 03 16:52:41 well theres not a whole lot to try just yet? Apr 03 16:53:32 acx704akm model for example has "only" 4096 colors according to datasheet Apr 03 16:53:36 there's a shell, if emacs is available, you got a entire OS :D Apr 03 16:54:05 VDVsx, its not got touchable apis yet Apr 03 16:54:29 ah true, but the n900 has a kb :D Apr 03 16:54:45 i thought you needed escape key for emacs and vi and stuff Apr 03 16:54:58 lcuk, touch emacs needs mutitouch for sure Apr 03 16:55:07 yes you need :) Apr 03 16:55:43 you need a third hand for some emacs commands :D Apr 03 16:55:59 the dreaming void book has a third hand Apr 03 16:56:26 telekinetic abilities described in a novel way :) Apr 03 16:56:33 lol Apr 03 16:57:47 javispedro, ill try and grab photos of greyscale color outputs and see if i can find actual depth Apr 03 16:58:00 it's a bit hard Apr 03 16:58:11 to guess optically Apr 03 16:58:12 i was thinking Apr 03 16:58:13 its feasible with a little app i think Apr 03 16:58:30 make one which shows gradient Apr 03 16:58:37 with a slider to "skip" values Apr 03 16:58:42 what if I just fill a rectangle outside of the most common rgb565 palette but inside the most common 18bpp palette. Apr 03 16:58:43 so you can increment in 1,2,3,4 etc Apr 03 16:59:01 *rectangle colored with a color Apr 03 16:59:01 see which has minimal visual difference Apr 03 16:59:35 i actually think Noobmonk3y_ could make such an app nicely :P Apr 03 16:59:40 at least for rgb transfer Apr 03 16:59:59 you can't do the app the normal way Apr 03 17:00:01 * Noobmonk3y_ wasnt listening?! Apr 03 17:00:12 javispedro, ? Apr 03 17:00:13 because the Xorg output is 16bpp, and that's fact. Apr 03 17:00:14 why not Apr 03 17:00:21 yeah - yuv isnt tho Apr 03 17:00:22 the only thing that bypasses Xorg is Xv Apr 03 17:00:58 (that, and creating a new fb, setting up the lcd controller, etc.) Apr 03 17:01:07 * Noobmonk3y_ gets back to the butlins arcade Apr 03 17:01:09 (which is what xv does :) ) Apr 03 17:01:34 doesnt drnok? Apr 03 17:02:02 how about any of yours RST38h - are all your apps limited to 16b? Apr 03 17:02:02 nope. drnok current versions either go to the sgx (16bpp) or go through xshm (16bpp) Apr 03 17:02:32 ok lemme see if i can hack something together and put this to bed once and for all Apr 03 17:02:46 heh Apr 03 17:02:55 * lcuk cant get at the other thing he was trying to look at this weekend Apr 03 17:03:29 i'm sure the tmo people will thank you accordingly :) Apr 03 17:04:03 im sure they would be thankful for the other thing too :) Apr 03 17:08:22 * Noobmonk3y_ blinks Apr 03 17:08:44 i thought i glued your eyes shut Apr 03 17:08:58 * lcuk searches for his slidebar control Apr 03 17:09:07 i blinked through my nose..... a complicated procedure Apr 03 17:09:18 and messy Apr 03 17:11:11 tmo down or just me? Apr 03 17:15:08 http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ Apr 03 17:15:12 damn he quit Apr 03 17:16:18 noobmonk3y, http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ Apr 03 17:16:28 lol ;) Apr 03 17:16:36 nah I'm serious Apr 03 17:16:38 twas just me i think Apr 03 17:16:39 it works lol Apr 03 17:16:56 "It's just you. http://talk.maemo.org is up. " Apr 03 17:17:11 :D Apr 03 17:17:19 was on the n900 - lappy is working fine Apr 03 17:17:36 did anyone try overclocking the N900? Apr 03 17:17:48 can't seem to find any problems with it, running stable @ 800 Apr 03 17:17:57 nice :D Apr 03 17:18:03 battery lasting 10 minutes? Apr 03 17:18:20 nah it's actually pretty good Apr 03 17:19:46 noobmonk3y, just found out the Apps tab in Healthcheck Apr 03 17:19:55 hehehe Apr 03 17:19:58 tis very slow Apr 03 17:20:01 but a work in progress Apr 03 17:20:20 need to work on a loading banner or something similar Apr 03 17:20:28 do you prefer the buttonless screens? Apr 03 17:20:39 well buttonless sys/comms/app screens Apr 03 17:22:01 noobmonk3y, I was kind of confused Apr 03 17:22:08 awwwwwww Apr 03 17:22:08 it took me 5 secs to see the blue arrow Apr 03 17:22:12 hehe Apr 03 17:22:19 cos i had only just learnt how to add them Apr 03 17:22:24 need to tidy that bit up though :D Apr 03 17:23:40 get rid of the / lol Apr 03 17:24:40 if i knew how ;) Apr 03 17:24:47 took me 10 hours to figure that oone out ;) Apr 03 17:24:52 one* Apr 03 17:25:19 want to add a few separators really Apr 03 17:25:34 but overall i personally prefer the cleaner screens Apr 03 17:26:28 we should see what gsoc initiatives are suggested for optimizing python Apr 03 17:26:38 and qt too Apr 03 17:26:40 but thats ongoing Apr 03 17:26:53 ooo yay :D Apr 03 17:27:13 yeah - python has a lot of potential benefits - as seen by the many apps using it Apr 03 17:27:21 but it has real drag cos of speed Apr 03 17:27:49 hmmm... not so sure its python slowing mine down Apr 03 17:27:51 more just me Apr 03 17:28:02 yeah you arent helping :p Apr 03 17:28:05 i keep tweaking code and speeding it up ;) Apr 03 17:28:07 but python has been slow forever Apr 03 17:28:08 lcuk: I still do not have python installed Apr 03 17:28:12 but first things first is to get it working ;) Apr 03 17:28:25 lcuk: After seeing what it does to the mount table, removed the goddamn monster Apr 03 17:28:28 RST38h, religious reasons? Apr 03 17:28:33 lol Apr 03 17:28:39 if i knew how ;) Apr 03 17:28:39 mmm RST38h ? Apr 03 17:28:42 lcuk: No, but I would guess, aesthetic Apr 03 17:28:44 lol just the remove it from the text Apr 03 17:28:45 MohammadAG, ;) Apr 03 17:28:46 wheres the mount stuff Apr 03 17:28:49 Update / All Apr 03 17:28:52 ^ Apr 03 17:28:53 documented Apr 03 17:28:53 lcuk: df Apr 03 17:28:59 not that easy MohammadAG Apr 03 17:29:02 lcuk: Do a df in xterm Apr 03 17:29:04 * lcuk chooses a device to df Apr 03 17:29:06 its under a title menu Update Apr 03 17:29:08 i know Apr 03 17:29:09 sub menus are all etc Apr 03 17:29:10 * MohammadAG downloads the source Apr 03 17:29:20 can paste bin it if you want Apr 03 17:29:21 noobmonk3y, oh Apr 03 17:29:30 nah no need lol Apr 03 17:29:36 I got you Apr 03 17:30:02 RST38h, thats a lot Apr 03 17:30:20 MohammadAG, http://pastebin.com/Q7rt3BEb Apr 03 17:30:23 too late Apr 03 17:30:37 lcuk: I wonder why the hell it has to be this ugly Apr 03 17:30:40 RST38h, python optify is better though? Apr 03 17:30:45 lcuk: Surely there should be some other way? Apr 03 17:35:57 clearly, a python to C compiler and ship all python apps as C binaries :P Apr 03 17:36:57 could autobuilder do it for us lazy folks? Apr 03 17:37:00 :D Apr 03 17:39:29 RST38h, yes, having the base system's PATH and ld.so.conf properly setup so that you could use ./configure --prefix=/opt/maemo Apr 03 17:39:36 and /opt/maemo renamed/moved to /usr/local/ Apr 03 17:41:01 AFAIK that wouldn't help python Apr 03 17:41:43 * noobmonk3y is praying for joiku not to randomly reboot again, 5 people using it now lol Apr 03 17:41:46 I had python working from $HOME/python on my desktop... Apr 03 17:41:52 so dunno why it wouldn't work Apr 03 17:44:55 same reason why installing it to /opt/python didn't work Apr 03 17:45:04 (which I don't know) Apr 03 17:45:06 ShadowJK: And short of that? Apr 03 17:45:28 ShadowJK: Python really cannot be configured to take modules from an arbitrary path? Apr 03 17:48:11 this explains the python issue: g it to /opt/python didn't work Apr 03 17:48:12 (which I don't know) Apr 03 17:48:12 ShadowJK: And short of that? Apr 03 17:48:15 oops Apr 03 17:48:23 now: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-October/021348.html Apr 03 17:49:13 ooh new name for microsoft users? "winfidel" Apr 03 17:52:42 javispedro: So, why don't these wonderful people explicitely set PYTHONPATH? Apr 03 17:53:40 noobmonk3y, just noticed something, why are you using a different icon for app manager and the menu icon Apr 03 17:53:53 RST38h: dunno. I would have just moved everything (interpreter and apps) to /opt Apr 03 17:54:00 Because app builder hates me Apr 03 17:54:10 its a bug in py2packager Apr 03 17:54:14 RST38h, not for python, but trying other things to clea out rootfs space Apr 03 17:54:22 i'm not cleverererer enough to fix it yet ;) Apr 03 17:54:24 maybe changing maemo-optify to handle a special "python" module to ensure that no .py file ends up in / instead of /opt Apr 03 17:54:29 s/module/mode Apr 03 17:54:38 thus bypassing the issue. Apr 03 17:54:49 then again I do not do python either :P Apr 03 17:56:26 RST38h: of course, you have to consider that the bind solution, other than cluttering your df output and consuming kernel memory, uses the least amount of symlinks Apr 03 17:56:35 lmfao teaches me to let my mate use my joiku internet - 58mb in 5 minutes..... Apr 03 17:56:39 porn porn porn........... Apr 03 17:57:18 LOL Apr 03 17:57:33 javispedro: if moving the whole python to /opt helps, then why the hell not??? Apr 03 17:57:45 dunno. ask the guy :) Apr 03 17:57:58 mhm Apr 03 17:58:01 BTW who is the guy> Apr 03 17:58:26 yay easter! Life of Brian is on tv! Apr 03 17:58:42 lizardo I guess. Apr 03 17:59:00 what msn do you guys recommend? Apr 03 17:59:06 msn msn? Apr 03 17:59:09 yellow one Apr 03 17:59:15 green one is kinda bitter Apr 03 17:59:17 better then potato msn... it's a bit plain...... Apr 03 17:59:23 Our reptilian friend is the guy who administrates pymaemo? Apr 03 17:59:27 what about pink? Apr 03 17:59:36 marcusmoller, seriously though, Pecan. Apr 03 17:59:39 pink is a bit to erm........ pink Apr 03 17:59:43 pink is soooooooooogay Apr 03 17:59:55 noobmonk3y, pink ftfw! Apr 03 17:59:58 mece: and that is for n900? Apr 03 18:00:07 * noobmonk3y groans Apr 03 18:00:13 marcusmoller, yep. sorry Where did you want it? Apr 03 18:01:10 lol x-chat is telling me i have 1.8secs of lag........meh - it's that darn porn again Apr 03 18:01:27 noobmonk3y, stop uploading it for a while then Apr 03 18:01:38 lol Apr 03 18:01:43 ;) - stop watching it then... christian porn is just not the same lol Apr 03 18:01:51 mece: for n900 aye :p but why arent you using pidgin etc Apr 03 18:01:58 why not, vibrating crosses are all the rage Apr 03 18:02:06 lcuk, - do you only wake up when the words porn or eyelids are mentioned? you scare me! Apr 03 18:02:15 i justgot back from tea Apr 03 18:02:23 :D Apr 03 18:02:29 and now im goin back with tracy, i have been super computer fixer dude Apr 03 18:02:32 talking of which time for tea :D Apr 03 18:02:55 her laptop no longer goes BEEP BEEP every 3 seconds Apr 03 18:02:58 cos i fixed the psu Apr 03 18:03:00 yay! Apr 03 18:03:05 22-3=19 Apr 03 18:03:12 nice job. what was borked Apr 03 18:03:12 it now goes Beep...........beepbeepbeep.......BEEP........... Apr 03 18:03:14 lcuk: you are 2 hours late with your tea! Apr 03 18:03:23 2 hours late?! Apr 03 18:03:37 no, i made the loose connection tight again :) Apr 03 18:03:43 marcusmoller, why would I run a separate application when I can have msn intergrated into the system? Apr 03 18:03:49 and ordered her a new battery to restore her uptime Apr 03 18:03:56 marcusmoller, or did you mean the haze plugin? Apr 03 18:04:15 mece: uhm i cant find it :p where do you install it? Apr 03 18:04:31 RST38h, 18:30 is a reasonable time for lasagna Apr 03 18:04:33 oh.. its in some of the dangerous repos- Apr 03 18:04:35 tried looking for an integrated one, but no success Apr 03 18:04:51 marcusmoller, right hold up. Apr 03 18:05:02 sure thing Apr 03 18:05:51 Rumors of the successor of the Nokia N900 are already here, it is some pictures of what is believed to be the Nokia N9 or N920, the first Nokia with MeeGo. Apr 03 18:05:52 Apparently, this new “monster” would, among other things, 64 GB of internal memory, 3.7-inch capacitive screen and QWERTY keyboard. The N900 was RM-51, this would be the RM-99, will it be able to overcome the N900?. Apr 03 18:06:35 guys, anybody uses a upnp server with N900? Apr 03 18:06:36 o_O 79% in favour of "furums" over "fora" http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49076 Apr 03 18:06:45 ptl, i'm more interested in cpu/ram specs :) Apr 03 18:06:48 oops wrong channel! Apr 03 18:06:56 uggh Apr 03 18:07:04 right channel. mybad Apr 03 18:07:13 marcusmoller, It's in testing Apr 03 18:07:24 noobmonk3y, how do I edit the description part of the deb? Apr 03 18:07:46 i tried mediatomb but that didnt work well with N900 Apr 03 18:07:46 p.description shows a short description Apr 03 18:07:49 how can it be integrated when its in testing? :p extras-devel? Apr 03 18:07:59 video froze and only auio came through Apr 03 18:08:08 anybody tried knots? Apr 03 18:09:32 marcusmoller, well, you need to enable the repository and install the program, that's how. Apr 03 18:09:49 http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing or more specifically http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing#How_to_activate_Extras-testing Apr 03 18:10:59 trumee_ Apr 03 18:11:09 nidO: yup Apr 03 18:11:10 thats a bug with the n900, not the fault of the upnp server Apr 03 18:11:20 nidO: oooh! Apr 03 18:11:30 all avi streaming is broke atm, the n900 will just play the first video frame and stall, then only play the audio Apr 03 18:11:44 nidO: is there any other client i can use? Apr 03 18:11:58 will this be fixed in 1.2? Apr 03 18:12:15 yeah the bug's marked as fixed since january sometime, so should be in 1.2 hopefully Apr 03 18:12:44 nidO, RST38h:there is a changelog of 1.2 somewhere Apr 03 18:12:56 3 months from fixing to delivery? Apr 03 18:13:00 * RST38h cackles Apr 03 18:13:34 * javispedro reminds the 24 months from fixing to delivery bugs I'm sure someone will have in mind Apr 03 18:13:51 not to mention fixed-in-fremantle... Apr 03 18:13:57 but I guess it is ancient history now Apr 03 18:13:59 here http://maemoarena.com/2010/03/nokia-n900-pr1-2-changelog-released/#more-211 Apr 03 18:14:38 a "changelog" that comes from w.m.o, and was generated automatically from bugzilla Apr 03 18:15:03 nidO: any idea of the bug number for that? Apr 03 18:15:09 sec Apr 03 18:15:29 ~seen cityligh1s Apr 03 18:15:32 cityligh1s is currently on #maemo (3h 48m 22s) #gllug (3h 48m 22s). Has said a total of 56 messages. Is idling for 1h 49m 27s, last said: 'does anyone know if hrw is emplied by Nokia?'. Apr 03 18:16:00 cityligh1s: why such question? (18:26 < cityligh1s> does anyone know if hrw is emplied by Nokia?) Apr 03 18:16:19 clearly, he's Eldar and is inquiring for his "report" about the N920 Apr 03 18:16:37 ;) Apr 03 18:16:53 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8043 Apr 03 18:16:54 Bug 8043: AVI Streaming broken. Local playback works fine. Apr 03 18:17:08 hrw? Apr 03 18:17:22 that one relates specifically to streaming over the web, but there're a few similar/related ones purely for upnp Apr 03 18:17:27 which is the same fault Apr 03 18:17:52 pupnik: I was suprised too Apr 03 18:18:12 nidO: thanks Apr 03 18:18:24 guys, when is the Nokia World conference next? Apr 03 18:19:09 Hand Riting Wreckognition? Apr 03 18:19:44 ;d Apr 03 18:20:02 nidO: is there any exisiting client which can play upnp avi files? i tried Mediabox as well, had the same problem Apr 03 18:21:55 do you want seeking trumee_ ? Apr 03 18:22:11 im a little confused about the N900 SDK Apr 03 18:22:16 knots2 serves up media with seeking Apr 03 18:22:28 if ive got to be inside scratchbox to use the appropriate compiler, how can i tell my IDE to use it? Apr 03 18:22:34 trumee, london, around September Apr 03 18:23:10 PhonicUK: the command to enter a scratchbox shell supports running any program instead of that shell Apr 03 18:23:18 ah ok Apr 03 18:23:23 wow, nano/N900 just crashed Apr 03 18:23:37 possible to delete all contacts from a group? Apr 03 18:23:41 so i'd set GCC to be "scratchbox gcc" etc etc? Apr 03 18:23:49 PhonicUK: i dont remember exactly, itll be something like that yes Apr 03 18:23:53 righto Apr 03 18:24:06 PhonicUK: with absolute "inside" sbox paths, which might hurt. Apr 03 18:24:19 ah ok Apr 03 18:25:01 PhonicUK: thats not a scratchbox thing btw, thats a mechanism used in linux/unix forever Apr 03 18:25:11 righto Apr 03 18:25:45 http://pastie.org/private/liuiq51u2izsjzk2mge7g Apr 03 18:25:49 any idea what that means? Apr 03 18:26:34 LiraNuna: i think you didnt read the README Apr 03 18:26:55 I did, and this used to work Apr 03 18:28:59 LiraNuna: vm.vdso_enabled = 0 ? Apr 03 18:29:13 I already set it Apr 03 18:29:16 LiraNuna: ok Apr 03 18:29:22 I said, it used to work Apr 03 18:29:37 bye Apr 03 18:30:23 i have an unused n900 contact group called (null). can i delete that? Apr 03 18:30:26 arg so my sourcecode has to visible from within scratchbox :\ Apr 03 18:30:36 PhonicUK: thats not hard Apr 03 18:30:38 lol....... Apr 03 18:30:50 i tried symlinking the maemo user home directory to my normal one xD Apr 03 18:30:57 PhonicUK: you cant use symlinks Apr 03 18:31:00 7060 Sometimes photos are very green <=== fixed! Apr 03 18:31:00 PhonicUK, you can compile compile GCC targeting maemo Apr 03 18:31:02 i found htat out Apr 03 18:31:03 PhonicUK: you can use mount --bind Apr 03 18:31:03 OMG Apr 03 18:31:09 LiraNuna: I have something you might want to test: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/sbox/libc-2.3.2.so Apr 03 18:31:16 LiraNuna: put it in /scratchbox/host_shared/lib Apr 03 18:31:19 twasnt porn lcuk ... they were watching dr.who via iplayer...... Apr 03 18:31:24 LiraNuna: keep the existing file there in case you want to restore it Apr 03 18:31:26 impressed as they are 2 chalet's awy! Apr 03 18:31:38 javispedro, libc? Apr 03 18:31:40 interesting Apr 03 18:32:18 PhonicUK: hardlinks would work too, but those work at all only if you dont cross fs boundaries Apr 03 18:32:19 LiraNuna: this is the libc I use with randomized vdso enabled ( http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-devel/2009-August/000457.html ) Apr 03 18:32:32 "randomized vdso enabled"? Apr 03 18:32:35 it also doesn't like spaces in directory names too much using codeblocks :s Apr 03 18:33:00 javispedro, giving it a spin Apr 03 18:33:08 LiraNuna: you probably updated your kernel or sth like that Apr 03 18:33:18 yes, I did Apr 03 18:33:31 do I need to re-disable vdso_enabled? Apr 03 18:33:46 weird... Apr 03 18:33:55 LiraNuna: if you edited sysctl.conf once, thats enough Apr 03 18:33:58 Fatal error: can't create obj/Debug/main.o: No such file or directory Apr 03 18:33:59 javispedro, the patched libc deosn't seem to work Apr 03 18:34:00 *nice* find javispedro Apr 03 18:34:02 valdyn, I did, actually Apr 03 18:36:22 javispedro, it doesn't seem to work, http://pastie.org/private/vq4ktgnyhkseycvu1ibmvq Apr 03 18:36:31 can you check your libc's md5? Apr 03 18:36:57 yeah, matches Apr 03 18:37:26 * javispedro tries to find where that string is Apr 03 18:37:31 i hate scratchbox xD Apr 03 18:37:47 PhonicUK, I compiled GCC 4.4.3 targeting maemo5 Apr 03 18:37:57 sorry LiraNunca, it's not in libc but ld.so (stupid me) will upload Apr 03 18:37:58 works great, and I don't need scratchbox to compile Apr 03 18:38:11 javispedro, no problem, we are all humans Apr 03 18:38:18 PhonicUK, the only thing is testing... Apr 03 18:38:57 ERROR: Scratchbox is not properly set up! Apr 03 18:38:58 lol Apr 03 18:39:02 i dunno how ive managed that xD Apr 03 18:39:16 PhonicUK, would you like me to guide you on how to compile GCC for maemo5? Apr 03 18:39:30 why would i need to compile gcc for maemo? Apr 03 18:39:44 targeting maemo, not running on maemo Apr 03 18:39:59 so you can have arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc as a compiler for maemo5 Apr 03 18:39:59 1 tick, my scrachbox is messed up Apr 03 18:40:02 LiraNuna: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/sbox/ld-2.3.2.so ( /scratchbox/host_shared/lib/ld-2.3.2.so) Apr 03 18:40:05 and the install script is fubar'd Apr 03 18:40:37 LiraNuna, http://pastebin.com/LRMwtvKq Apr 03 18:40:59 oh you're writing in python Apr 03 18:41:02 no im not Apr 03 18:41:11 LiraNuna: maybe a quick wiki would help more folks Apr 03 18:41:20 im trying to run maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py Apr 03 18:41:27 pupnik, is it encouraged by maemo though? Apr 03 18:41:31 so i can sort out a build environment for use with code::blocks Apr 03 18:41:33 brb Apr 03 18:41:48 pupnik, GCC version in scratchbox is 4.1.2 :/ Apr 03 18:42:01 what do you mean "encouraged"? sounds fun and newer gcc would rock Apr 03 18:42:04 and it has MANY bugs with NEON and cortex-a8 as a target in general Apr 03 18:42:10 yes! Apr 03 18:42:27 also see MADDE Apr 03 18:42:39 pupnik, when I compiled GCC 4.4.1 for maemo4 I got yelled at "you're doing it wrong" Apr 03 18:42:50 javispedro, horray Apr 03 18:43:00 javispedro, that seems to do it Apr 03 18:43:37 LiraNuna: nice to hear. Apr 03 18:44:11 id prefer to do it the way i normally do ARM cross compiling, just with the compiler installed as normal and a copy of the ARM libs somewhere... Apr 03 18:44:25 PhonicUK, I can help you do that Apr 03 18:44:30 the issue is that crosscompiling works fine for simpler packages Apr 03 18:44:37 but tends to break nastly for bigger ones Apr 03 18:44:47 i only want to make something (fairly) small Apr 03 18:45:01 1 sec im gna go get the codesourcery compiler Apr 03 18:45:09 javispedro, you can ignore autotools and write your own makefile Apr 03 18:45:43 5513 1511 user S 3120 1.2 0.2 irssi Apr 03 18:45:47 LiraNuna: it's not autotools the real culprit here, but usually carelessness by upstream Apr 03 18:45:48 javispedro, http://pastie.org/private/le0hzhr7or42reg9imjdoq Apr 03 18:45:59 hmm or not Apr 03 18:46:07 add set CROSS to arm-linux-gnueabi- and you're set! Apr 03 18:46:15 s/add// Apr 03 18:46:15 LiraNuna meant: set CROSS to arm-linux-gnueabi- and you're set! Apr 03 18:46:45 LiraNuna: again, that works for simple enough packages. things would start to break when, for example, you need CCHOST Apr 03 18:47:16 i hate python, why does every script im given break every other python version :\ Apr 03 18:48:05 javispedro, I know, but I found it works great for personal projects Apr 03 18:48:14 agreed Apr 03 18:48:32 I understand that for batch compiles, there's no alternative to chroot Apr 03 18:50:54 PhonicUK, if you're familiar with cross compiling and don't have collision with another arm-linux-gnueabi target on your host, you can build a cross compiler Apr 03 18:51:03 righto Apr 03 18:51:14 would you like help? Apr 03 18:51:20 ah, note also that there might be some weirdo interactions between the different libgcc versions Apr 03 18:51:23 yeah in a mo, gotta rebuild my virtual machine Apr 03 18:51:29 but most of the time that is not a serious problem. Apr 03 18:51:30 javispedro, I took care of that Apr 03 18:51:53 as well as libc and libstdc++ Apr 03 18:52:24 interesting Apr 03 18:52:31 ever see a nice speedbump on dosbox with newer gcc? Apr 03 18:52:41 I didn't try to compile dosbox Apr 03 18:52:43 but I can Apr 03 18:53:07 let me get the source Apr 03 18:53:12 pupnik: iirc dosbox binary is still compiled with -Os. Did you play with CFLAGS? Apr 03 18:53:23 for days Apr 03 18:53:23 wow -Os!? Apr 03 18:53:39 LiraNuna: -Os was fastest on N810, at least. Apr 03 18:53:45 wow Apr 03 18:53:48 (this was cs2005 toolchain) Apr 03 18:53:50 i didnt have a good benchmark setup Apr 03 18:53:51 binary loading issues? Apr 03 18:54:02 javispedro, N810's toolchain was GCC 3.x Apr 03 18:54:04 was hoping maybe doom timedemo Apr 03 18:54:47 let me get latest dosbox Apr 03 18:54:48 also 3.x broke with -fprofile-generate on dosbox Apr 03 18:55:00 heh Apr 03 18:55:07 on cs2007 profile-generate and use seem to work Apr 03 18:55:28 yeah but NEON is broken Apr 03 18:55:35 as well as -mcpu=cortex-a8 -O2 Apr 03 18:55:42 in what sense? Apr 03 18:55:42 generates an ICE Apr 03 18:55:47 ^ Apr 03 18:56:24 well that's the default Apr 03 18:56:26 javispedro, try to compile http://pastie.org/private/jk4kbqcskgrrdoqwiyjba Apr 03 18:56:38 besides #maemo and #maemo-devel, which other maemo channels are available? Apr 03 18:56:49 LiraNuna: I think I saw this previously, did you upgrade to the latest SDK? Apr 03 18:56:55 javispedro, I am using it Apr 03 18:57:10 I gave up and compiled my own GCC Apr 03 18:57:20 GCC's 4.4 optimizer is sick Apr 03 18:57:24 LiraNuna: heh Apr 03 18:57:27 LiraNuna: works here! Apr 03 18:57:32 "works on my machine" Apr 03 18:57:35 javispedro, try adding -O2 Apr 03 18:57:59 touché :) Apr 03 18:58:01 ^_^ Apr 03 18:58:19 hey, are there any maemo apps for the n900 that can turn it into a WLAN AP? Apr 03 18:58:21 maemo should really take advantage of NEON Apr 03 18:58:40 LiraNuna: well they do it already -- with asm. Apr 03 18:58:44 heh Apr 03 18:59:04 intrinsics give the compiler a better edge Apr 03 18:59:07 especially GCC Apr 03 18:59:08 actually first versions of the toolchain didn't even allow inline asm Apr 03 18:59:13 dnaumov: joikuspot Apr 03 18:59:15 ouch Apr 03 18:59:15 I am pondering getting an iPad and some phones do seem to have applications that turn them into a WLAN access point, so the connecting device goes through whatever connection the phone is using, this sounds like quite a tempting combination for N900 + iPad :) Apr 03 18:59:16 -- with neon. Apr 03 18:59:24 this was fixed in a later SDK. Apr 03 18:59:52 javispedro, I know this is SSE, but GCC uses the same 'GIMPLE' representation for both SSE and NEON Apr 03 18:59:55 javispedro, http://www.liranuna.com/sse-intrinsics-optimizations-in-popular-compilers/ Apr 03 19:00:06 valdyn: thanks Apr 03 19:00:32 interesting stuff Apr 03 19:00:34 * LiraNuna compiles dosbox Apr 03 19:00:47 GCC 4.4 is even better in this regard Apr 03 19:01:57 they recoded the register selection code Apr 03 19:02:28 heh Apr 03 19:02:29 /usr/arm-linux-gnueabi/lib/gcc/arm-linux-gnueabi/4.4.3/../../../../arm-linux-gnueabi/include/bits/mathcalls.h:154: error: previous declaration of 'float powf(float, float)' Apr 03 19:02:40 why does dosbox redeclares it? Apr 03 19:03:32 we got a perfectly capable math coprocessor, why recode the fpu? Apr 03 19:03:52 LiraNuna: broke because you skipped autoconf Apr 03 19:04:01 [AC_MSG_RESULT(yes)], [AC_DEFINE([DB_HAVE_NO_POWF],[1],[libm doesn't include powf])]) Apr 03 19:04:52 i remember when powf was broken Apr 03 19:05:09 Is there a faster way to connect to my bluetooth speaker than to open the bluetooth menu->devices->speakername->connect ? Apr 03 19:05:22 Would like to have a button for that Apr 03 19:05:46 hi Apr 03 19:06:28 is it possible to emulate serial connection through usb cable - n900? Apr 03 19:07:45 ugh I hate autotools Apr 03 19:08:45 I just patched the source Apr 03 19:08:46 \:D/ Apr 03 19:08:59 LiraNuna: register allocator still seems to be not very good in gcc 4.4 for NEON, at least for a few samples I tried Apr 03 19:09:30 ssvb, I didn't get to play much with NEON, but I know they are both _vs4f types for GCC Apr 03 19:09:56 pupnik, does dosbox have an ARM dynarec? Apr 03 19:10:08 LiraNuna: where did you get the tarball from? Apr 03 19:10:08 it should now Apr 03 19:10:18 official site Apr 03 19:10:22 then, no. Apr 03 19:10:29 (0.73) Apr 03 19:10:33 oh Apr 03 19:10:33 do you guys know of a battery charger for the N900 that I can buy? Apr 03 19:10:48 glad to see you're alive ssvb :) Apr 03 19:10:54 ptl_demands_PR12, any of 'em supporting microusb Apr 03 19:11:02 javispedro, which one should I compile then Apr 03 19:11:31 LiraNuna: NEON has 128-bit NEON registers, which can be also accessed as 64-bit halves, maybe it makes them a bit more difficult for gcc to handle Apr 03 19:11:41 ssvb, mmx Apr 03 19:11:43 pupnik: sorry didnt see your message. u around? Apr 03 19:11:51 LiraNuna: you could grab mine (from apt-get source dosbox) but at this point I prefer you start afresh (mine keeps autoconf and I've changed it a bit) Apr 03 19:11:55 SSE overloads MMX (mm0+mm1 = xmm0 Apr 03 19:12:05 pupnik: oh yes you are :), yes seeking will be good Apr 03 19:12:15 javispedro, I'd like to compile with the ARM jit at the very least Apr 03 19:12:19 pupnik: knots works on N900? Apr 03 19:12:24 yep! Apr 03 19:12:34 pupnik: yes, I'm still alive :) Apr 03 19:12:42 LiraNuna: then get mine or (afaik) dosbox cvs Apr 03 19:12:47 pupnik: cool. so broken avi streaming doesnt affect knots? Apr 03 19:13:25 hmm, now libSDL is broken Apr 03 19:13:32 must be some ld scripts instead of libs again Apr 03 19:13:37 libm and libc are like that Apr 03 19:13:49 trumee_: you can test on pc with VLC player Apr 03 19:14:05 LiraNuna: really? as far as I know, MMX and SSE registers do not overlap and are stored separately Apr 03 19:14:06 LiraNuna: not a wall charger... I want a battery charger, that charges the battery independently of the phone Apr 03 19:14:10 a BL-5J charger Apr 03 19:14:20 pupnik: what do you mean? knots is a upnp server isnt it? Apr 03 19:14:23 ptl_demands_PR12: i got a universal charger. it works Apr 03 19:15:21 trumee_: i havent followed knots2 closely, sorry. feel free to ask in #knots later Apr 03 19:16:14 pupnik: I'll try, thanks. Apr 03 19:16:28 oh, oh god Apr 03 19:16:29 -L/usr/lib -lSDL Apr 03 19:16:30 ... Apr 03 19:17:26 usr/lib??? Apr 03 19:17:40 yeah, sdl-config doesn't really like cross compilers Apr 03 19:17:56 oh great Apr 03 19:18:26 sdl-config is a prime example of something requiring HOSTCC :) Apr 03 19:19:17 so do the autoconf in scratchbox first, then tweak output? Apr 03 19:19:58 no, it'll use `gcc` then instead of arm-linux-eabi-gcc Apr 03 19:20:11 LiraNuna: HOSTCC ;) Apr 03 19:20:19 I've never used HOSTCC Apr 03 19:20:34 liranuna@monster:~/Desktop/dosbox-0.73$ export HOSTCC=arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc Apr 03 19:20:34 liranuna@monster:~/Desktop/dosbox-0.73$ sdl-config --libs Apr 03 19:20:34 -L/usr/lib -lSDL Apr 03 19:20:34 ? Apr 03 19:20:35 LiraNuna: btw, if you ever find yourself with lots of freetime, you could try "porting" gcc4.4 to sbox Apr 03 19:20:57 I don't know about scratchbox's arch Apr 03 19:21:06 LiraNuna: opposite thing: HOSTCC is the C compiler that produces host arch binaries Apr 03 19:21:30 why would it need it Apr 03 19:21:58 you cross build SDL, and require sdl-config to be x86 (for future sdl application builds) but libSDL to be armel Apr 03 19:22:14 what if I want libSDL to be locally Apr 03 19:22:35 x86, x86_64 and armel Apr 03 19:23:05 * javispedro notes that sdl-config is a bash script thus his point is .. pointless :( Apr 03 19:23:14 s/notes/realizes Apr 03 19:23:18 order it. US$8 Apr 03 19:23:20 *ordered Apr 03 19:23:25 oh dear god Apr 03 19:24:29 :) Apr 03 19:24:35 * pupnik has popcorn Apr 03 19:24:49 SDL is the most cross-compiler unfriendly library out there Apr 03 19:25:16 a weird thing to say considering it's probably one of the most cross built libraries :) Apr 03 19:25:26 sad truth Apr 03 19:27:21 horray Apr 03 19:27:28 a 10.3MB dosbox executable Apr 03 19:27:38 liranuna@monster:~/Desktop/dosbox-0.73/src$ file dosbox Apr 03 19:27:38 dosbox: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, not stripped Apr 03 19:27:42 so this headache would occur in MADDE also javispedro ? Apr 03 19:28:03 sounds about right LiraNuna Apr 03 19:28:37 dosbox doesn't use any .so's right? Apr 03 19:28:44 so I can saftly copy the exec alone? Apr 03 19:30:41 LiraNuna: strip it Apr 03 19:31:04 yes no .so Apr 03 19:31:05 pupnik: never tried with SDL & DosBox. But I'm used to the cross compiling headaches Apr 03 19:31:28 javispedro, oh right Apr 03 19:31:30 -O2 -g Apr 03 19:31:52 well, brb. Apr 03 19:32:00 do you just do builds for yourself that way? or does madde.. ah shoot Apr 03 19:32:03 down to 2.5MB! Apr 03 19:32:15 huh? that is very small Apr 03 19:32:23 I stripped it Apr 03 19:32:27 no debug or anything Apr 03 19:33:25 hmm javis' is also that tiny Apr 03 19:34:21 do you have oprofile kernel installed LiraNuna ? Apr 03 19:34:46 on my N900? no, stock Apr 03 19:36:09 pupnik, where is dosbox normally installed Apr 03 19:37:50 l /opt/maemo/usr/bin/dosbox Apr 03 19:38:47 ha, it's ~2.5MB as well Apr 03 19:38:58 2.1MB Apr 03 19:39:10 looks like doom timedemo may be the only way to get reliable comparisons Apr 03 19:39:55 where can I get it Apr 03 19:40:21 wrap the dosbox invocation in a 'time' test. and invoke a batch file that "exits" Apr 03 19:40:29 hmm ill google a bit Apr 03 19:41:09 pupnik, your version doesn't have ARM jit, right? Apr 03 19:43:16 not afaik Apr 03 19:43:40 then I doubt it'd do major speed up Apr 03 19:43:58 maybe 15% or so Apr 03 19:44:03 maybe here http://www.brothersoft.com/games/doom.html Apr 03 19:44:14 I think app manager crashed Apr 03 19:44:15 15 pct would be major Apr 03 19:44:20 hanged, more likely Apr 03 19:44:50 a lot of work has gone into small mprovements Apr 03 19:47:49 Hi all Apr 03 19:47:55 morn Apr 03 19:48:02 where is gainroot Apr 03 19:48:10 why did I remove it yesterday :| Apr 03 19:48:50 Is there someone who knows when will be available an OpenGL library for Maemo 5? Apr 03 19:49:19 embedded, OGL ES is already available Apr 03 19:49:26 -lOGLESv2 Apr 03 19:49:33 or -lGLESv2 Apr 03 19:49:33 yeah Apr 03 19:49:34 I think Apr 03 19:49:40 and Apr 03 19:49:41 OpenGL != OpenGL ES Apr 03 19:49:52 and no, you can't magically have OGL on an OGL ES system Apr 03 19:49:55 yep Apr 03 19:50:09 so the answer is 'never' Apr 03 19:50:10 it's exactly what I was saying Apr 03 19:50:28 you were asking a question, not stating a fact Apr 03 19:50:29 ok :/ Apr 03 19:50:31 * LiraNuna confused Apr 03 19:50:55 why do you need OGL anyway? Apr 03 19:50:57 I was just thinking if someday it will be developed Apr 03 19:51:06 for glVertex? :) Apr 03 19:51:13 embedded, you can't magically have OGL on an OGL ES system Apr 03 19:51:26 just to port some little games to Fremantle which make use of OGL Apr 03 19:51:34 hmm? Apr 03 19:51:35 I know Apr 03 19:52:05 embedded, he difference isn't huge Apr 03 19:52:15 it's possible to write OGL code that is compatible with OGL ES2 Apr 03 19:54:27 pupnik, it runs! Apr 03 19:55:45 well another speedup - which would only be an option for hardcore gamers - would be to suspend pulseaudio and write to alsa device. but that has issues with sdl mixer and contention that are too much for me Apr 03 19:56:22 or use the ARM dynarec... Apr 03 19:56:50 i think javispedro did Apr 03 19:57:17 let me copy doom over Apr 03 19:57:57 eh, keyboard doesn't work Apr 03 19:58:41 oh oops, Apr 03 19:59:59 some mappings arent implemented by default Apr 03 20:00:10 I didn't use the config file Apr 03 20:00:17 javis fixed it with a dos mapper config Apr 03 20:00:22 k Apr 03 20:00:34 does the application list run /opt/maemo/usr/bin/dosbox? Apr 03 20:00:42 I replaced it (and saved an -old version) Apr 03 20:02:11 ugh, I can't use the Fn key Apr 03 20:03:08 where's the config file located Apr 03 20:03:44 the one in dos? Apr 03 20:03:55 no, dosbox's Apr 03 20:04:28 ~/.dosbox/dosbox-0.73.conf Apr 03 20:04:47 both in my builds and dosbox upstream. Apr 03 20:04:49 ~/t .dosbox/dosbox-0.73.conf Apr 03 20:04:49 on my version, I can't seem to use the Fn key Apr 03 20:05:07 because I fixed that on a lower layer Apr 03 20:05:08 it works like a return Apr 03 20:05:20 X-COM: UFO defense works in dosbox? Apr 03 20:06:14 LiraNuna: you won't be able to use most of the Fn keys in the upstream dosbox -- but the config file has an autoexec section where you can put the bench commands in Apr 03 20:06:33 ah Apr 03 20:07:42 ptl_demands_PR12: too slow i think Apr 03 20:08:12 it doesn't need a fast PC, it should work. although scrolling might be difficult with touchscreen Apr 03 20:13:42 pupnik, how can I time it Apr 03 20:14:45 um um um... there Was a "timedemo commandline but i dont have it handy Apr 03 20:14:54 and searching on n900 is a bit slow Apr 03 20:15:20 the screenshot seem to take a while to load Apr 03 20:15:27 s/screenshot/splash screen/ Apr 03 20:15:27 LiraNuna meant: the splash screen seem to take a while to load Apr 03 20:15:34 yes load is significant Apr 03 20:15:50 and i think timedemo runs through a fixed number of frames Apr 03 20:16:10 frameskip helps if non fullscreen Apr 03 20:16:19 so it cant be fooled by internal dos clock mistakes if we use external invocation to time it Apr 03 20:16:19 fullscreen Apr 03 20:17:00 still splashscreen Apr 03 20:17:41 what game is this? Apr 03 20:17:46 DOOM :/ Apr 03 20:17:52 ah, never tried :P Apr 03 20:17:59 javispedro: do you think your default config is appropriate to it? Apr 03 20:18:22 pupnik: "my" default config is the same as upstream :S Apr 03 20:18:32 i would imagine a frameskip of 3 to .... what9! Apr 03 20:19:08 touchscreen stopped responding Apr 03 20:19:09 and the one I use on my n900 just has a frameskip of 5 and sound disabled Apr 03 20:19:15 ah, and less memory reserved Apr 03 20:19:30 hmmm. thats a bad idea unless wou want users to tweak that themselves Apr 03 20:19:51 if you have a suggestion for a better default... :) Apr 03 20:20:07 the only thing I dislike is touching the cycles Apr 03 20:20:09 counter. Apr 03 20:20:37 javispedro, is the version in extras-devel featuring ARM dynarec? Apr 03 20:20:45 LiraNuna: yes Apr 03 20:20:55 LiraNuna: for protected mode only though Apr 03 20:20:59 oh Apr 03 20:21:28 any dos extender "extended" app (doom is?) is most probably using 286 protected mode, so no problem here. Apr 03 20:23:32 oh, now it has sound Apr 03 20:23:39 weird Apr 03 20:24:13 sound is smooth Apr 03 20:24:29 so, how can I run the timedemo Apr 03 20:24:53 oh great, arrows don't work Apr 03 20:24:54 :P Apr 03 20:25:09 sound is smooooth Apr 03 20:25:55 now I can't quit it :D Apr 03 20:26:00 sure it is, it is going thru pulse :) Apr 03 20:26:15 pupnik, I mean, no lag Apr 03 20:26:15 power btn and end current task Apr 03 20:26:39 there's no 'end current task' Apr 03 20:26:52 and touchscreen isn't working Apr 03 20:26:59 for some reason Apr 03 20:27:11 any real benchmark I can check? Apr 03 20:27:13 oh dear. on n900 power btn gives me that as an option Apr 03 20:27:34 mine does too, just not in (my version of) dosbox Apr 03 20:27:40 because it's unhildonized Apr 03 20:27:46 there are some. "checkit.com" Apr 03 20:27:49 figured Apr 03 20:27:49 ohh Apr 03 20:28:25 http://ftp.aanet.ru/pub/dos/checkit/ Apr 03 20:28:49 maybe some benchmarks work if you set cycles to "auto" or "max" Apr 03 20:31:32 o-O doctor who Apr 03 20:33:14 but if they do internal timing and dosbox occasionally tries to grab more cycles than it can emulate... then the benchmark is fooled. from my understanding Apr 03 20:48:49 in some of the n900 apps (which i assume are gtk based), such as the media player, and the app manager - choosing an option brings up a new page with a back arrow to get back to the previous one - does anybody know if it is possible to get this behavoir with Qt and if so how? i'm currenlt using dialogs but they don't provide as much screen space Apr 03 20:50:25 its called stackablewindow in hildon/gtk at least, dunno bout qt Apr 03 20:50:31 it should be in 4.6 Apr 03 20:51:15 http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qt-maemo-4.6/maemo5-stackedwindows.html Apr 03 21:07:09 javispedro: thanks Apr 03 21:13:57 DocScrut-borked, I guess your laptop didn't survive? Apr 03 21:13:59 heya guys Apr 03 21:14:16 what is the newest firmware version? Apr 03 21:15:32 Pr 1.1.1 or v 3.2010.02-8 Apr 03 21:15:46 javispedro, where can I get your version of dosbox to compare? Apr 03 21:15:54 LiraNuna: extras-devel Apr 03 21:15:55 (source) Apr 03 21:15:59 same Apr 03 21:16:09 inside sbox with extras-devel enabled, apt-get source dosbox Apr 03 21:16:17 E: Couldn't find package dosbox Apr 03 21:16:21 is it ARMEL or X86 Apr 03 21:16:24 you need to enable devel Apr 03 21:16:25 both Apr 03 21:16:32 I did enable devel Apr 03 21:16:39 that's weird, let me see Apr 03 21:16:44 [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > apt-get install dosbox Apr 03 21:16:44 bash: /usr/bin/apt-get: No such file or directory Apr 03 21:16:44 wtf Apr 03 21:17:01 0.73-7maemo5 in extras-devel Apr 03 21:17:31 oh duh Apr 03 21:17:35 I activated extras, not devel Apr 03 21:17:38 * LiraNuna shoots self Apr 03 21:17:45 apt-get not found? Apr 03 21:17:51 in armel Apr 03 21:17:57 uhhh Apr 03 21:18:03 it is in the debian devkit Apr 03 21:18:26 I'm on ubuntu 9.10 64bit Apr 03 21:18:40 shouldn't matter Apr 03 21:20:02 LiraNuna: output of sb-conf show FREMANTLE_ARMEL should contain "debian-etch" Apr 03 21:21:02 if i can't find a package in the download app manager what else can i do Apr 03 21:21:07 javispedro, devkits: none Apr 03 21:21:18 i did apt-get install package but get package not find Apr 03 21:21:20 found* Apr 03 21:21:35 tried for a apt-get update aswell Apr 03 21:21:43 LiraNuna: bad install. either gui installer failure or you missed that step in manual install Apr 03 21:21:59 can I still do it from within scratchbox? Apr 03 21:22:10 yeah Apr 03 21:22:20 sb-menu Apr 03 21:22:23 sb-menu -> Install? Apr 03 21:22:24 and go on Apr 03 21:22:31 setup Apr 03 21:22:58 Compiler: cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 Devkits: qemu perl debian-etch doctools svn git CPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/qemu/bin/qemu-arm-sb Apr 03 21:24:10 ay one ideas? Apr 03 21:24:16 then extract rootstrap? Apr 03 21:24:31 LiraNuna: no need to if you did already Apr 03 21:25:31 there we go Apr 03 21:25:33 now it works Apr 03 21:25:35 thanks javispedro Apr 03 21:25:38 yesterday i used route add default gw 192.168.2.14 to be able to ping google.com from my n900 with usb networking but now it doesn't work anymore. what should i try instead? Apr 03 21:25:50 I was wondering why my armel has problems Apr 03 21:26:23 FireStorm|: search for it here maemo.org/packages/ or http://ageofikon.info/packrat/ Apr 03 21:26:33 anyone tested aircrack-ng on n900? saw on some googlin it was locked to only chan 6? that still an issue? Apr 03 21:27:16 nothing javispedro Apr 03 21:27:38 FireStorm|: then most probably doesn't exist. Apr 03 21:27:45 i was told i was missing the route via the pc to ping google.com from my n900, how to set this route? Apr 03 21:28:03 lol what? Apr 03 21:28:04 there must be a mms software ? Apr 03 21:28:12 yes fmms Apr 03 21:28:20 FFS Apr 03 21:28:26 * FireStorm| slaps self round face with cricket bat Apr 03 21:28:31 rmms is not fmms Apr 03 21:28:49 uhsf try rebooting Apr 03 21:30:04 http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmms/ Apr 03 21:30:06 so if i got it there Apr 03 21:30:42 and i download the ,deb file Apr 03 21:30:44 how would i install it Apr 03 21:32:18 till-: what do you think rebooting will restart? i hate rebooting my n900 not only because of the gay splashscreen jingle but mostly because it's a real pain to set up usb networking back everytime Apr 03 21:32:36 dpkg -i whatever.deb Apr 03 21:32:45 i wouldn't (dependencies!) Apr 03 21:35:36 uhsf as long as you havn't changed any files the route and network should be resettet Apr 03 21:37:15 ? Apr 03 21:39:33 javispedro, how can I know I got your version of the code? Apr 03 21:39:51 LiraNuna: does it have a debian/patches directory? :) Apr 03 21:40:01 yes Apr 03 21:40:05 then you did :) Apr 03 21:40:11 do debian/rules patch inside sbox also Apr 03 21:41:35 what does that mean? I'm not familiar with debian packaging system Apr 03 21:41:40 build* Apr 03 21:41:56 I know about checkinstall, but that's about it Apr 03 21:42:11 till-: i still get ping: bad address 'google.com' after rebooting. what is wrong? Apr 03 21:42:14 LiraNuna: all my patches to the upstream source are in debian/patches Apr 03 21:42:38 till-: my /etc/network/interfaces is exactly like in the wiki Apr 03 21:42:47 LiraNuna: to apply them all, you have to run "debian/rules patch" in the src dir Apr 03 21:43:12 ../debian/rules:13: /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make: No such file or directory Apr 03 21:43:15 :| Apr 03 21:43:21 LiraNuna: apt-get install quilt Apr 03 21:43:26 i have my sdk upgraded to pr1.2 and it seems i cannot presenlty test apps on the phone from wihtin eclipse - is this due to a conflict between 1.2 and the phone being 1.1.1 ? Apr 03 21:43:40 ah, that's what it is Apr 03 21:43:45 LiraNuna: you can also apply the patches separately, in your own dir Apr 03 21:43:53 LiraNuna: in case you want to reuse your "bork autoconf" setup ;) Apr 03 21:44:07 I don't mind Apr 03 21:44:08 (it segfaults when i try on the phone) runs fine on pc Apr 03 21:44:11 does it change something if it's usb1 on my pc instead of usb0? Apr 03 21:44:14 I want to compile it just as you do Apr 03 21:44:18 just with 4.4.3 Apr 03 21:44:53 LiraNuna: then do "apt-get build-dep dosbox" Apr 03 21:44:59 and dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot Apr 03 21:45:04 uhsf no idea, i just had to tweak my n800 to support pptp-vpn some time ago Apr 03 21:45:58 * lcuk ponders Apr 03 21:46:42 in /etc/network/interfaces, the auto usb0 iface usb0, is it the usb0 on the n900 or the pc? Apr 03 21:48:46 oh wow, javispedro the dynarec is armv4 Apr 03 21:48:58 // choose your destiny: Apr 03 21:48:59 hahaha Apr 03 21:49:13 LiraNuna: no wonder, original target was gp2x Apr 03 21:49:20 oooh Apr 03 21:50:00 why i can't ping google.com? is it possible there's a package missing? Apr 03 21:50:11 I believe that on N900 you need root to ping Apr 03 21:50:34 i tried as root Apr 03 21:50:54 javispedro, will the ARM dynarec be automatically build upon ARM target? Apr 03 21:51:04 does anybody know if the n900 native medi player decodes mp3 on the CPU or in the DSP / whatever the media processor thing is Apr 03 21:51:07 or is there a magic undocumented configure switch Apr 03 21:51:10 LiraNuna: i don't remember the autoconf magic from the top of my head Apr 03 21:51:42 uhsf, how long have you had your arch system up and running? and do you find it easy to do all your administration tasks in it? Apr 03 21:51:48 i assume the flac/ogg addon support is cpu based - some has just compiled the existing libs Apr 03 21:53:32 LiraNuna: from a quick look to the arm-target patch, you need to #define C_TARGETCPU ARMV4LE, #define C_DYNREC 1 Apr 03 21:53:33 lcuk: i'm using arch linux exclusively since 2005 Apr 03 21:54:02 #define C_TARGETCPU ARMV4LE Apr 03 21:54:03 horray Apr 03 21:54:04 already there Apr 03 21:54:27 LiraNuna: weren't you building it using dpkg-buildpackage? Apr 03 21:54:35 no Apr 03 21:54:45 arch is really my favorite distro. it's the most up to date for all software Apr 03 21:54:48 just wanted the source Apr 03 21:56:23 LiraNuna: btw, does dynarec use thumb? Apr 03 21:56:28 i think it's easy to do admin tasks in arch, even if many things often break after updates. Apr 03 21:57:06 ssvb, I didn't look at the code Apr 03 21:57:38 ssvb: thumb (1), iirc. Apr 03 21:57:46 thumb is problematic on OMAP3 Apr 03 21:58:04 and thumbee? Apr 03 21:58:26 javispedro: all kind of thumbs Apr 03 21:58:47 that's weird, they cripple jazelle then thumbee (the supposed "alternative"?) Apr 03 22:00:01 javispedro: they did not intend to cripple it, these are just HW bugs in the first Cortex-A8 revisions (OMAP3430 uses Cortex-A8 r1p3) Apr 03 22:01:05 i think i solved the ping problem by changing nameserver to my router's ip in /etc/resolv.conf, what kind of an ugly hack is this? Apr 03 22:02:25 ugh, why does my N900 disconnects from skype/gtalk every 10mins or so Apr 03 22:06:15 ssvb: oh god. have linky? Apr 03 22:07:08 javispedro: cortex-a8 errata list, but it is not available for free download Apr 03 22:07:56 javispedro: here is one link http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2009-05/msg00297.html Apr 03 22:08:47 fortunately, that's thumbee only Apr 03 22:09:12 javispedro: it's thumb2 bug Apr 03 22:09:38 javispedro: and it's only one of the bugs Apr 03 22:09:51 signal sender=:1.37 -> dest=(null destination) serial=353 path=/org/bluez/889/hci0; interface=org.bluez.Adapter; member=PropertyChanged string "Powered" variant boolean false Apr 03 22:09:57 how do I turn this into a dbus call? Apr 03 22:10:07 dbus-send ...? Apr 03 22:10:19 [user@n900 user]% dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply /org/bluez/889/hci0 org.bluez.Adapter.PropertyChanged string:"Powered" boolean:true Apr 03 22:10:21 got a weird effect with qpushbuttons with png icons on, anything red comes out blue, and the same buttons that should have red on are all messed up Apr 03 22:10:22 Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "PropertyChanged" with signature "sb" on interface "org.bluez.Adapter" doesn't exist Apr 03 22:12:23 javispedro: and the problem with this bug is that it can be workarounded in the linker for the statically compiled code, but any JIT engine also has to avoid problematic instruction sequences Apr 03 22:12:43 yeah Apr 03 22:12:58 well, I though you were talking about performance problems Apr 03 22:13:24 dosbox in -devel has had the thumb1 jit enabled for months with no visible crash complaints Apr 03 22:14:04 that's cause it's armv4 Apr 03 22:14:56 the what? Apr 03 22:15:19 I think the problematic instructions are only in thumb2 Apr 03 22:15:38 for the record, thumbee=thumb2 for me ;) Apr 03 22:16:06 (that's not exactly the case afaik but doesn't really matter much here) Apr 03 22:17:14 javispedro: no, they are a bit different: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ddi0406b/index.html Apr 03 22:17:32 LiraNuna: thumb1 also has HW bugs Apr 03 22:18:03 oh dear Apr 03 22:21:02 LiraNuna: this one - http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=7ce236fcd6fd45b0441a2d49acb2ceb2de2e8a47 Apr 03 22:21:53 LiraNuna: it can be workarounded, but it hurts context switch performance, which is bad for pulseaudio, dbus, etc. Apr 03 22:21:58 how do I Esc in dosbox, javispedro Apr 03 22:21:59 anyone here have a cool opml that they want to share about Maemo/MeeGo Apr 03 22:22:13 LiraNuna: map it (-startmapper) Apr 03 22:22:18 ah Apr 03 22:23:58 i still wouldnt mind sdl-mixer working with rx51 alsa driver Apr 03 22:24:19 LiraNuna: if dosbox jit can be switched to generate just normal arm code, that would be the best choice Apr 03 22:25:04 first, pupnik wants me to see if switching to GCC 4.4.3 speeds anything up Apr 03 22:25:36 LiraNuna: gcc 4.4.3 sometimes generates much slower code than 4.3 for arm Apr 03 22:25:59 it's better than 4.1.2 :) Apr 03 22:26:18 LiraNuna: the biggest problem of gcc 4.4 is that the binaries are generally larger, and it is bad for I-cache Apr 03 22:26:54 LiraNuna: is it? do you have any benchmarks? Apr 03 22:27:18 LiraNuna: and I guess 4.1 is old and irrelevant anyway Apr 03 22:27:20 well, 4.1.2 hates NEON and ICEs for me if you use -O2 Apr 03 22:28:23 LiraNuna: 4.1 even does not support NEON at all, NEON was only introduced in upstream gcc 4.3, codesourcery had it since 4.2 Apr 03 22:28:31 found it by trial and error :P Apr 03 22:28:48 dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=org.bluez /org/bluez/889/hci0 org.bluez.Adapter.SetProperty string:Powered variant:boolean:true Apr 03 22:30:05 LiraNuna: and ICE is better than silent generation of a broken nonworking binary :) Apr 03 22:30:27 true, but it's not the compiler's code, now is it Apr 03 22:31:06 LiraNuna: most of the problems are related to gcc autovectorization, this is buggy to different extent on all platforms Apr 03 22:31:27 LiraNuna: so it is always safer to explicitly disable it Apr 03 22:31:35 what's up with that overclocking talk Apr 03 22:31:44 anybody have kernel patches? Apr 03 22:31:53 * MohammadAG_ waves hand Apr 03 22:32:00 share? Apr 03 22:34:14 added to Phone Control page Apr 03 22:34:27 LiraNuna: about gcc optimizations quality: http://hardwarebug.org/2009/08/05/arm-compiler-shoot-out/ Apr 03 22:34:51 * GAN900 wants his cloak. Apr 03 22:35:08 LiraNuna: I can confirm that gcc 4.4 generates up to 30% slower code (also on the software other than ffmpeg) Apr 03 22:35:23 oh wow Apr 03 22:35:25 LiraNuna: btw, I just noted that fremantle_armels gcc version is 4.2.1 Apr 03 22:35:31 not 4.1 Apr 03 22:35:34 oh whoops Apr 03 22:36:00 corecode: yeah I wonder if there is some kind of planet for maemo folks Apr 03 22:36:08 to keep current with the tips and tricks Apr 03 22:36:37 or an opml that I can just add to my blog reader Apr 03 22:38:23 ssvb: Wow, ARM RVCT beats every compiler out there. I don't know this compiler, is it free as in free speech? Apr 03 22:39:00 no. Apr 03 22:39:01 corecode: planet maemo? talk.maemo.org ? Apr 03 22:39:23 JZA: I've got a list of good maemo blogs, if you want. I can send it to you in OPML format. Apr 03 22:40:03 great... ptl_demands_PR12 Apr 03 22:40:23 you can dcc it if you want Apr 03 22:41:29 ptl_demands_PR12: about free as speech gcc alternative for arm, clang/llvm might become interesting in the future Apr 03 22:42:43 ssvb: but right now, ARM RVCT isn't? Apr 03 22:42:43 ptl_demands_PR12: but today its arm target is highly experimental, and maybe only suitable just for simple helloworld applications Apr 03 22:42:47 JZA: sent Apr 03 22:43:24 ptl_demands_PR12: ARM RVCT is a quite expensive commercial compiler Apr 03 22:43:25 thanks Apr 03 22:43:49 ssvb: I see :/ Apr 03 22:45:27 * lcuk starts a breeding program Apr 03 22:45:59 (context: http://twitter.com/sjgadsby/status/11555976697) Apr 03 22:49:37 ShadowJK: so, any idea where bme's % comes from? Apr 03 22:50:26 SpeedEvil, not really, though I'd point out that half of bq27200's sense resistors are connected to the cellmo side EM Apr 03 22:50:45 ah Apr 03 22:51:01 moh Apr 03 22:51:13 does anyone know how to get the name of the song playing from terminal? Apr 03 22:51:28 corecode, was that a broken ping? :p Apr 03 22:51:42 SpeedEvil, amusingly, with an original nokia battery, bq27200 does pretty okay, as long as you keep in mind that what it's trying to accomplish is something different than the user-facing meter Apr 03 22:51:57 MohammadAG_: sorta Apr 03 22:52:10 seems the 2.6.34 kernel has been restructured Apr 03 22:52:14 SpeedEvil, with third party batteries, bq27200 starts to fail, with the mugen battery, it fails hard... and whatever bme does, despite being quirky, is far more usable Apr 03 22:52:16 on the omap clocking Apr 03 22:52:30 SpeedEvil, bq27200 is really designed to be in the battery and not in the phone :) Apr 03 22:52:44 what's it trying to do? Apr 03 22:52:51 I know. Apr 03 22:53:00 corecode, restructured? Apr 03 22:53:01 is there some var i can putin project.pro to get the SDK to built against qt 4.6.2.instead of 4.5? i thought i had updated to PR1.2 but i seem to still have both with 4.5 under /usr and 4.6.2 under /opt Apr 03 22:53:12 MohammadAG_: header files changed Apr 03 22:53:24 but the batteris could not be so inexpensive if they put chips in them Apr 03 22:53:29 :/ Apr 03 22:53:36 how's the usb host status? Apr 03 22:53:59 corecode, well he edited the omap .h file Apr 03 22:54:13 which is a header Apr 03 22:54:18 oh, I was looking for the omap34xx technical manual the other day Apr 03 22:54:21 hmm, in fact i have 4.6.2 i both paces but the maemo5 integration is only on the /opt version Apr 03 22:54:21 I'm running a USB toaster from my N900 now. Apr 03 22:54:22 SpeedEvil, well basically bq27200's perception of energy is different. It's stated goal is to show 6.25% remaining capacity when the battery is at EDV1 threshold voltage. That's 0.025 volts higher than the point at which the device shuts down, or in other words, same point. Apr 03 22:54:27 and I find it now that I wasn't looking for it Apr 03 22:54:30 MohammadAG_: yea, which does not exist in 2.6.34 anymore Apr 03 22:54:38 I only get 8 slices per charge. Apr 03 22:54:40 SpeedEvil, but does it blend? Apr 03 22:54:46 SpeedEvil, bme's goal seems to be to show 0% (ish) at first battery low warning Apr 03 22:54:52 the OMAP34xx manual: http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/SWPU223A_FinalEPDF_03_17_2010.pdf Apr 03 22:55:21 ah Apr 03 22:55:22 So just the different goals give widely different opinions on the state of charge of the battery Apr 03 22:55:30 corecode, so nokia restructured it? Apr 03 22:55:54 Also, bq27200 will happily show 6% for 2 days if it thinks hte battery is full Apr 03 22:56:07 or happily show 100% for 2 hours while charge current is 500mA, if it thinks the battery is full Apr 03 22:56:23 s/hte battery is full/the battery is empty/ Apr 03 22:56:25 ;-) Apr 03 22:57:07 weird Apr 03 22:57:09 BME thinks the mugen 2400mAh batteyr's capacity is 800mAh...1200mAh, due to a design error in the mugen battery, and will use current consumption to drive the capacity meter Apr 03 22:57:30 but, at certain voltage thresholds, it does some sort of sanity check, and will correct itself Apr 03 22:58:04 This all gives me the impression, that whatever bme is doing, is 10 years of people adding tons of heuristics to it Apr 03 22:58:53 bme is the hollistic approach, bq27200 is the high-tech approach. Apr 03 22:59:14 high-tech wins as long as you use the original battery, and let the device run down until it shuts down once a month or so. Apr 03 22:59:55 It's not designed to adapt to users swapping batteries, so when it tries to learn the properties of a battery, it will reject new data if it's out of line with previous information Apr 03 23:00:04 Which would happen if you change batteries Apr 03 23:01:15 If it's really confused, it will fall back to the constants stored in the eeprom, which, as far as I can tell, are tailored for a brand new BL-5J battery Apr 03 23:02:05 But anyway, one of the nice things bq27200 gives us, is a current meter Apr 03 23:02:09 it's updated every 5.12 seconds Apr 03 23:03:16 And as long as you're inside 6...100% of what bq27200 considers charge level to be, the coloumb counter is accurate too. Apr 03 23:03:55 lol w00t_ Apr 03 23:09:51 :) Apr 03 23:10:30 * SpeedEvil wants a task list widget. Apr 03 23:10:43 and camkeyd able to go to a desktop Apr 03 23:12:59 can we see total current current drain in mA? Apr 03 23:14:19 pupnik, when not on charger, yes Apr 03 23:15:23 is there a graphical client for scp on maemo? Apr 03 23:15:29 something ike winscp Apr 03 23:15:44 do you know how ShadowJK ? or have a search term for this? Apr 03 23:15:45 manually scping is a bit off a hassle Apr 03 23:16:18 pupnik: thanks for the pointer to knots. it is perfect Apr 03 23:16:24 pupnik, I have a binary and a script. I consider it extremely experimental, and would take no responsibility if it bricks your N900. If you understand this you can have it Apr 03 23:17:09 i am missing fish:// on n900 Apr 03 23:17:13 So far it has once made my N900 stop charging while connected to charger :) Apr 03 23:17:23 (it resumed charging when I unplugged and replugged charger) Apr 03 23:17:26 great trumee_ ! Apr 03 23:17:44 well im curious enough ShadowJK Apr 03 23:21:47 pupnik, http://enivax.net/jk/bq27200.sh http://enivax.net/jk/i2cget Apr 03 23:21:56 Download those two Apr 03 23:22:08 Put them in a directory somewhere (I have them in ~) Apr 03 23:22:18 In that directory, be root. execute ./bq27200.sh Apr 03 23:22:23 To get a dump of the current situation Apr 03 23:22:32 (Where current means "present") Apr 03 23:22:39 ./bq27200.sh 5 Apr 03 23:22:50 And you get a vmstat-like view that is updated every 5 seconds Apr 03 23:24:07 with time, battery voltage, Relative state of charge, Compensated state of charge, current drain/charge in mA, Nominal Available Capacity, discharge current compensated available capacity, discharge and temperature compensated available capacity, Time to full in minutes, Time to empty in minutes, temperature in kelvin, and EDV1 flag Apr 03 23:27:00 pupnik, the script itself has some comments of the different values, if there's anything you want to know feel free to ask Apr 03 23:27:57 Worth keeping in mind: When bq27200 is 100% accurate and correct, the device will, after a period of beeping low battery, shut down when bq27200 says 6-7% remaining capacity Apr 03 23:29:26 awesome Apr 03 23:30:03 ty. finally a window into what im using Apr 03 23:30:05 * luke-jr mutters Apr 03 23:30:25 luke-jr, HELLO Apr 03 23:30:35 hi Apr 03 23:30:50 luke the fool is trying to make his N810 vaguely useful today Apr 03 23:30:52 ShadowJK: but do you know the actual trigger? Is it 6 or 7 percent? Apr 03 23:30:55 and getting more pissed Apr 03 23:31:12 ptl_demands_PR12, the actual trigger is voltage based. N900 will shut down at 3200mV Apr 03 23:31:26 Battery Low warning comes at 3550mV or in that region Apr 03 23:31:27 * b-man|n900 boots up Windows 95 in dosbox on his N900 to test the integrity of his N900's 800mhz overclocked cpu Apr 03 23:31:58 b-man|n900: that won't test it properly Apr 03 23:32:03 With a fresh-ish battery, the time between battery low and shutdown is about an hour Apr 03 23:32:14 in general, overclocking is only noticable long-term Apr 03 23:32:18 eg, CPU dies sooner Apr 03 23:32:26 indeed Apr 03 23:32:28 With a very old/degraded battery, time between battery low and device shutdown could be a matter of seconds Apr 03 23:32:49 electromigration or whatever it was called... Apr 03 23:32:58 electron-migration? Apr 03 23:33:16 i'm mostly doing it for testing purposes Apr 03 23:33:34 electromigration Apr 03 23:33:34 http://pastebin.com/BcxNcLiM <- current output of my script Apr 03 23:33:48 the electrons don't migrate Apr 03 23:33:57 It's becoming massive spaghetti-code bash though... I'm considering a C rewrite :/ Apr 03 23:33:57 Lluke-jr: how should i test it? xD Apr 03 23:34:14 *luke-jr Apr 03 23:34:15 b-man|n900: I just wouldn't do it. :p Apr 03 23:34:30 ShadowJK: neat! Apr 03 23:35:03 In this paste my N900 is consuming ~35mA to run 2 bq2700.sh scripts (one locally on device, one over ssh and wlan), openvpn and xchat, over wlan. Apr 03 23:35:06 screen off Apr 03 23:35:33 sounds ballpark Apr 03 23:36:12 Battery voltage is 3.724 volt. At this low load, bq27200 says battery is at 23% Apr 03 23:36:12 now - gnuplot! Apr 03 23:36:23 wh did you already delete them ShadowJK ? Apr 03 23:36:32 pupnik, I did not? Apr 03 23:36:32 i was multitasking Apr 03 23:36:33 nite all, sweet dreams Apr 03 23:36:41 so anyhow Apr 03 23:36:47 Nokia has screwed me still Apr 03 23:36:52 pupnik, hold on Apr 03 23:37:02 GPS doesn't work at all. And today's new thing is NOLO doesn't either. Apr 03 23:37:06 f u Nokia >:O Apr 03 23:37:49 pupnik, http://enivax.net/jk/n900/bq.tar Apr 03 23:37:53 luke-jr: what do you think of that new MID Sharp just announced? Apr 03 23:37:56 my webserver is too smart Apr 03 23:37:56 sorry Apr 03 23:38:20 b-man|laptop: didn't see it...? Apr 03 23:38:32 * b-man|laptop grabs the link Apr 03 23:38:53 TTF: 65535 <- there's no charging, so time to full is "infinite"=65535. TTE: 434 minutes <- 434 minutes estimated until empty at the current (last 5 seconds) load Apr 03 23:39:22 SI: 24 mA STTE: 666 minutes <- Standby consumption estimated as 24mA. In standby, battery would last 666 minutes Apr 03 23:39:39 luke-jr: http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/30/sharp-is01-snapdragon-powered-3g-mid-introduces-au-to-android/ Apr 03 23:39:59 Android? :( Apr 03 23:40:02 MLI: 772 mA MLTTE: 19 minutes <- Max load (either from eeprom, or observed by bq2700) is 772mA. At maximum load, battery would last 19 minutes at current charge level Apr 03 23:40:35 luke-jr: i sure you could get something else running on it ;) Apr 03 23:40:41 b-man|laptop: maybe Apr 03 23:40:45 also capacitive ts Apr 03 23:41:14 but you know Apr 03 23:41:25 if that thing has enough RAM, I might actually be interested Apr 03 23:41:41 so did you find interesting results so far with it ShadowJK ? Apr 03 23:41:54 Last Measured Discharge: 1154 mAh <- The last time the battery was charged to full, and then discharged in one go to empty (device shutdown), this was the capacity of the energy released from the battery. Very "radical" changes in LMD are rejected, so it doesn't "learn" the new capacity of the huge mugen battery, unfortunately :( Apr 03 23:42:08 oh cool Apr 03 23:42:17 b-man|laptop: any price release? Apr 03 23:42:33 Cycle Count since Learning: 2 <- The Last Measured Discharge (LMD) was recorded this many cycles ago. Apr 03 23:42:41 luke-jr: not from what i've seen Apr 03 23:42:45 ShadowJK: cheat? Apr 03 23:42:53 im hoping to get a better feel for which things to avoid to maximize batt life Apr 03 23:43:03 Total Cycle Count since last full reset: 78 <- a "full reset" is very rare, so this is basically the amoutn of charge/discharge cycles the chip has seen Apr 03 23:43:19 ShadowJK: dischargbe to q1300, 1400,... Apr 03 23:44:05 luke-jr: here are a few specs: http://en.akihabaranews.com/41510/phone/hands-on-jn-dk01-and-is01-sharp-and-au-first-android-mid Apr 03 23:45:34 Charge:0 NOACT:0 IMIN:0 CI:0 CALIP:0 VDQ:1 EDV1:0 EDVF: 0 <- IMIN=1 <- charge current has tapered off to such a low level that the battery can be considered full. CI <- 1 means Capacity Inaccurate. VDQ <- 1 means "valid discharge", all the conditions required are met for bq27200 to learn the new capacity when reaching EDV1. EDV1 <- Battery voltage has reached the EDV1 threshold which signals 6.25% battery capacity. If VDQ=1, the accumulated capacity from Apr 03 23:45:40 full to low is a candidate for learning the battery's capacity Apr 03 23:46:35 b-man|laptop: that's a blank page Apr 03 23:46:53 O_- Apr 03 23:47:01 **O_o Apr 03 23:47:06 1 sec Apr 03 23:47:11 n900 hardware power consumption Apr 03 23:47:17 page on wiki Apr 03 23:48:08 luke-jr: http://en.akihabaranews.com/41510/phone/hands-on-jn-dk01-and-is01-sharp-and-au-first-android-mid < the page is completely blank?? - it's rendering fine from my browser... Apr 03 23:48:21 i had to scroll to the right Apr 03 23:48:23 ILMD=1370 EDVF=3000 EDV1=3248 ISLC=13 <- ILMD Initial Last Measured Discharge, the default initial last measured capacity of no learning cycle has been completed. EDVF = battery empty voltage, EDV1 = battery 6.25% threshold voltage. ISLC = Initial Standby Load Current. The amount of power consumed in standby. b27200 adjusts this up and down depending on actual load. Consumption "much" higher than SLC will not be considered a standby Apr 03 23:48:27 ah Apr 03 23:48:29 lol Apr 03 23:50:21 DMF=14700 nanoVolt SD=201 AGELMD=1 TAPER=68 mA. The chip will account for 0.201% battery self-discharge per day. AGELMD=1=in the asbence of valid learning cycles, the chip is programmed to estimate the capacity loss of the battery due to age and temperature. TAPER, when the charge current has tapered off to 68mA, the chip will consider the battery fully charged Apr 03 23:50:33 wow this is complicated Apr 03 23:50:56 luke-jr: what do you think? Apr 03 23:51:10 b-man|laptop: I think the RAM is the crucial piece Apr 03 23:51:12 also, what of GPS? Apr 03 23:52:53 not entirely sure until a more detailed spec sheet is available ;P Apr 03 23:52:59 IMLC=685 mA The maximum programmed load. Initially MLC=IMLC. MLC is used to calculate "Time to empty at maximum load" value. If average current over a 5.12 second period (AI) exceeds MLC, MLC is updated with the value from AI. So, MLC is the max of IMLC and the biggest current drain observed so far Apr 03 23:53:07 ShadowJK: www.mauve.plus.com/stats - mine Apr 03 23:53:25 404 Apr 03 23:53:37 wow Apr 03 23:53:43 lol Apr 03 23:53:48 my connection is being sucky Apr 03 23:53:53 ftp up stalled Apr 03 23:53:59 how do you add to pdadb? Apr 03 23:55:14 there Apr 03 23:56:24 ? Apr 03 23:56:50 SpeedEvil, you've never let your N900 run down until it shut down :) Apr 03 23:56:52 interesting Apr 03 23:57:29 luke-jr: pdadb? Apr 03 23:57:43 why are MLI and SLI only given as averages? can we get "last 10 seconds" also? Apr 03 23:57:44 74 charge/discharge cycles that makes your device about as old as mine :) Apr 03 23:57:44 ... Apr 03 23:57:49 b-man|laptop: .net Apr 03 23:58:20 not sure on that one.. Apr 03 23:58:31 pupnik, MLI and SLI aren't averages Apr 03 23:58:35 but "average current" is Apr 03 23:58:43 hmm Apr 03 23:58:48 possibly not Apr 03 23:59:09 Maximum load Current is the maximum load, over 5 seconds, ever observed, OR IMLC from eeprom Apr 03 23:59:21 Interesting. Apr 03 23:59:41 SLI is standby current, there's some heuristics involved in this... Apr 03 23:59:41 I woonder if that 17ma reading is a bogon Apr 03 23:59:51 I don't remember the heuristics well enough.. Apr 04 00:00:41 oh nm sorry Apr 04 00:01:47 But approximately: If AI (average current) is close enough to ISLC, the consumption is considered to be "standby", and SLC is updated. If AI is too much bigger than SLC/ISLC, it is not considered as "Standby", and has no impact on the SLC/ISLC and SLTTE values Apr 04 00:01:54 I get quite common -21s (locked) Apr 04 00:02:06 just xchat Apr 04 00:02:20 reading over wifi Apr 04 00:02:24 yeah, same here Apr 04 00:02:42 varying between -20 and -50 approx Apr 04 00:03:39 This value is averaged by the chip over a 5.12 second period, so that if you were to read this exactly every 5.12 seconds, you could integrate them and get accurate view of the amount of current that has moved in and out of the battery Apr 04 00:04:33 The chip does its own integration into NAC, with the limitation that NAC can not exceed LMD, and NAC can not go lower than LMD*0.0625 Apr 04 00:05:11 NAC is set to LMD if the TAPER flag is raised Apr 04 00:05:57 interesting Apr 04 00:06:28 backlight at max brightness only about doubles screen power use Apr 04 00:06:36 :) Apr 04 00:06:57 What surprised me was how little power video playback onto LCD used Apr 04 00:07:16 35maish for screen, 70 for max bl Apr 04 00:07:43 Like, having xchat online on 3g with screen off and device idle used as much power as xchat idle on wlan, screen on, and playing 480p youtube video clips Apr 04 00:08:08 in flash? Apr 04 00:08:16 No, media player Apr 04 00:08:30 I had downloaded the clips previously with gpodder Apr 04 00:08:46 sweeet. sweeeet Apr 04 00:09:17 mplayer direct to alsa saves ~20ma Apr 04 00:09:22 lol Apr 04 00:09:59 that is like cranking screen brightness up Apr 04 00:10:03 can bvolt be outputted easily? Apr 04 00:10:16 SpeedEvil, hm? Apr 04 00:10:21 bat voly Apr 04 00:10:23 t Apr 04 00:10:52 Well it's a 16 bit read Apr 04 00:10:59 VOLT=$(.... Apr 04 00:11:00 as most loads will be constant power, not constant current Apr 04 00:11:04 and then VOLT=$(($VOLT... Apr 04 00:11:22 GAN900: had a guy from work call me this morning: "I'm selling my 5D, interested?" Apr 04 00:11:31 oops Apr 04 00:11:43 It's OK, you can carry two Apr 04 00:11:48 SpeedEvil, so you want battery voltage and current to be displayed? Apr 04 00:11:52 yeah, but it's a mk 1, so I'm not interested Apr 04 00:11:55 One for telephoto, one for portrait. :P Apr 04 00:11:56 Ah Apr 04 00:12:17 and even if it had been a mk 2, I wouldn't have been able to afford it Apr 04 00:12:39 I'm about to be very very broke, that's the kind of shit you get when you give up your job and have to travel back to the other side of the friggin planet. Apr 04 00:12:40 SpeedEvil, if you do ./bq27200.sh 5 Apr 04 00:12:54 SpeedEvil, you will get time, battery voltage, current Apr 04 00:13:12 SpeedEvil, if you only want battery voltage I guess you'll have to edit the script and comment out all the "extra" stuff :) Apr 04 00:13:20 k Apr 04 00:13:30 90-110 ma right now with irssi, wifi, low brightness, and mplayer-alsa playing my lectures Apr 04 00:13:32 mv RSOC CSOC mA NAC CACD CACT TTF TTE TEMP EDV1 Apr 04 00:13:32 03:12 3714 21 21 -30 243 243 243 65535 482 300 0 Apr 04 00:13:40 "mv" column is battery voltage Apr 04 00:14:39 thanks again ShadowJK - so fun Apr 04 00:14:51 BTW, while you're looking at the script, I'd ask you to ignore the spaghetti-code factors of it Apr 04 00:15:28 hmm Apr 04 00:15:33 odd Apr 04 00:15:37 oops Apr 04 00:15:41 missed that Apr 04 00:15:49 btw how do you get only -39 mA ShadowJK Apr 04 00:15:56 -30 Apr 04 00:16:03 odd - I'm getting runs of _9_ Apr 04 00:16:03 And instead boggle at the hoops required to unpack 2 3-bit integers stored in a byte, starting at line 133 ;-) Apr 04 00:16:20 well - -9 Apr 04 00:16:28 pupnik, what's yours? Apr 04 00:16:54 SpeedEvil, It's not impossible... Apr 04 00:17:08 that's locked Apr 04 00:17:28 wlan on, updating over wifi every 5s Apr 04 00:17:34 -89 to -240 in last screenful Apr 04 00:17:46 pupnik, on N900? Apr 04 00:17:50 yes Apr 04 00:18:10 Yeah, with screen on -80 is about the lowest you'd see Apr 04 00:18:27 where "lowest" means "closest to 0" Apr 04 00:18:59 mostly around 110 Apr 04 00:19:05 SpeedEvil, I saw really low standby values when I had everything offline and CPU inactive Apr 04 00:19:25 and wlan with nothing moving over it is almost as good as offline.. Apr 04 00:19:52 But I'll be honest, I haven't calculated the numerical accuracy at this at all :) Apr 04 00:21:32 sh script doesn't do floating point, it's all integer, constants muliplied by 1000 to fit into integers, and the end result divided by appropriate 1000's to become mA Apr 04 00:22:40 I wonder why it does a long run of 9s, then stops Apr 04 00:23:01 I need to try without xchat up I guess Apr 04 00:23:19 "stops"? Apr 04 00:24:16 goes to 30s Apr 04 00:24:27 working great here. very interesting to see this stuff Apr 04 00:24:57 indeed Apr 04 00:25:26 I'm at 27 having closed xchat Apr 04 00:25:52 Closed ALL remaining apps, and left it at homescreen with foreca widget... Apr 04 00:26:00 let's see :) Apr 04 00:27:11 -17 Apr 04 00:27:16 -16 Apr 04 00:27:48 3.7V Apr 04 00:28:10 -15 Apr 04 00:28:40 oops, forgot an xterm Apr 04 00:29:23 Nope, still at -15...-17 :) Apr 04 00:30:22 ShadowJK: what are you doing? Apr 04 00:30:28 so my 2 minute screenm dimming delay is a problem Apr 04 00:30:33 -50 on edge instead of wlan :/ Apr 04 00:30:46 b-man|laptop, realtime battery load measurements Apr 04 00:30:50 ah Apr 04 00:31:15 for what purpose may i ask? Apr 04 00:31:18 hey i set my clock on n900 to automatic, but its not refreshing. Apr 04 00:31:29 how do i update it from console Apr 04 00:31:33 b-man|laptop, fun. Apr 04 00:31:41 lol :) Apr 04 00:32:14 b-man|laptop, it's interesting to only have a 5 second delay in knowing how much power the N900 is using, instead of the customary "how long does it last until empty" metric ;) Apr 04 00:32:33 indeed :) Apr 04 00:33:06 SpeedEvil, hah, I reached -6 by putting the device offline! Apr 04 00:33:19 Only openvpn and sshd running, basically Apr 04 00:33:27 (and bq27200.sh) Apr 04 00:33:40 very useful to see mow much cpu load websurfing, mp3 playback, emulators, wifi, screen takes Apr 04 00:34:18 I think next step is to modify/rewrite script to collect data every 5 seconds, and average and display the data every minute Apr 04 00:37:10 or make that a postprocessor script Apr 04 00:39:44 LOL, my school teacher is emailing me O_o Apr 04 00:40:33 -40 to -50 with screen off, mp3 playback,irssi Apr 04 00:40:41 b-man|laptop, obviously you want to reply with a tinyurl link to ricky marti Apr 04 00:40:42 n Apr 04 00:40:53 pupnik, that's awesome :) Apr 04 00:40:53 lol Apr 04 00:41:20 ShadowJK: i'm gonna do it >:) Apr 04 00:41:58 timeless_mbp, you're either logging on very late, or very early Apr 04 00:42:31 ShadowJK: heres the cmdline for that mplayer alias mprlo='pasuspender -- mplayer -shuffle -ao alsa:device=hw=0.0 -quiet -softvol' Apr 04 00:42:51 hm, how does media player compare? Apr 04 00:43:04 will test Apr 04 00:45:16 stock media player bouncimg around 60 Apr 04 00:45:24 not too bad Apr 04 00:45:31 at very low speaker vol Apr 04 00:45:37 mp3 Apr 04 00:45:39 65 to 80 Apr 04 00:45:56 pretty loud here Apr 04 00:46:24 spealer? Apr 04 00:46:47 yes Apr 04 00:47:08 80 pct volume Apr 04 00:47:47 ok im gonna get used to a 10 second screen dimming now Apr 04 00:48:07 that is huge Apr 04 00:48:21 * ShadowJK has it at max Apr 04 00:48:38 I always manually dim it with the keylock key anyway.. Apr 04 00:49:40 170 Apr 04 00:49:50 what are you nerds after? Apr 04 00:49:54 for me, speaker Apr 04 00:50:14 bq* stats Apr 04 00:50:23 hehe Apr 04 00:50:52 9mA standby with wifi and ssh going is mindboggling Apr 04 00:51:14 I haven't quite decided yet if RS=30 is the correct value :) Apr 04 00:51:44 31 makes ILMD look more right, but 30 is a "nicer" and "rounder" constant ;-) Apr 04 00:52:15 ilmd? Apr 04 00:52:16 SpeedEvil: not really. and if you're talking bout bq27k that chip won't even tell the spikes as they are simply not detected as idle Apr 04 00:52:40 SpeedEvil, Initial Last Measurged Discharged. The battery capacity bq27200 is programmed for Apr 04 00:52:54 ah Apr 04 00:53:38 the one that make the thing fail for mugen Apr 04 00:54:49 ShadowJK: you need to add above comments to help im script Apr 04 00:55:03 LMD=ILMD until a learning cycle, LMD will be updated by measured discharge from full to shutdown-threshold if the conditions required are met, and if the new measured capacity is within a certain range of ILMD or last valid LMD Apr 04 00:55:16 * RobbieAB starts installing scratchbox Apr 04 00:55:44 "Initial Last Measured Discharge. LMD = ILMD if no valid learning cycle has been completed." Apr 04 00:55:50 in the script ;) Apr 04 00:55:54 ah Apr 04 00:56:10 I must be mad trying to set-up PAN access point. Apr 04 00:56:11 sorry, tired Apr 04 00:56:20 I suspect it's going to require kernel smacking :s Apr 04 00:56:40 * DocScrut-borked is constantly headbanging the desk, wall etc. Today this friggin fan in my laptop came to a noisy grinding halt. 2hy must such things happen at long weekends? Apr 04 00:57:12 Because you don't remember them when they don't? Apr 04 00:57:13 When else would it happen? It always happens when most inconvenient :( Apr 04 00:58:38 apropos script with comments. I feel like a parrot, but do you know people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/bq27k-detail ? Apr 04 01:00:19 DocScrut-borked, yeah you pasted it earlier ;) Apr 04 01:00:21 Silly question: the instructions for the scratchbox installation say to check 3 sysctl keys: Do they all need to return a value? Is it bad if two return "unknown key"? Apr 04 01:00:52 DocScrut-borked, sh is kinda write-only for me though ;( Apr 04 01:01:29 sh is write-only ??? Apr 04 01:01:39 errr dont get it Apr 04 01:01:57 write-only read-never programming language, like brainfuck (wild guess) :D Apr 04 01:02:24 RobbieAB: what sysctl keys? Apr 04 01:02:30 Sort of :) Apr 04 01:02:53 ahh Apr 04 01:02:57 That script takes an entire ram+eeprom dump and prints out (mostly) raw annotated values :) Apr 04 01:03:02 sysctl abi.vsyscall32; sysctl vm.vdso_enabled; sysctl kernel.vdso Apr 04 01:03:02 RobbieAB: vdso stuff? as long as one key works, everything will be fine. Apr 04 01:03:35 * MohammadAG_ mods a bullet belt into a battery belt for the N900 Apr 04 01:03:41 javispedro: Ah, thank you. I was wondering as I couldn't see anything that made sense for the other 2 in the kernel configs, so thought I should ask before begining a long trawl. Apr 04 01:03:58 RobbieAB: "Please note the correct line depends on your Linux kernel version. When you execute sysctl -p you may get a warning about unknown keys. You can safely ignore those warnings as long as one of the 3 settings works. " Apr 04 01:04:02 there's just one line in that script to adapt for N900. it's the readout from sysnode raw which returns the whole registerset in hex Apr 04 01:04:09 iirc Apr 04 01:04:35 javispedro: I'm probably following a different set of instructions, as I'm following the gentoo ones :D Apr 04 01:04:42 RobbieAB: ah well Apr 04 01:04:44 you'd need to substitute the 'cat sys...' by I2*get Apr 04 01:05:08 javispedro: Anyway, it's getting there, slowly, thank you :) Apr 04 01:05:55 DocScrut-borked, yeah that sounds right Apr 04 01:06:51 and removing the bashisms :) Apr 04 01:08:10 * RobbieAB may be about to produce a package that qualifies as utterly vile :D Apr 04 01:10:11 I guess for loop and some string concatenation into dmp() function.. Apr 04 01:20:41 ShadowJK: removing bashisms - have fun :-P Apr 04 01:21:04 My current script works in busybox sh! Apr 04 01:21:55 And, you know, I /enjoyed/ using busybox sh to extract 3 different values packed into a single 8-bit byte ;p Apr 04 01:23:02 it's like 15 years ago when all I had to code on was a handheld Casio calculator ;\ Apr 04 01:23:07 and BASIC Apr 04 01:23:45 It's like smoking crack, except there's no fire involved Apr 04 01:32:00 ah, apple. Apr 04 01:32:28 I usually read a few rss items before going to bed. it's going to be though today when all of them talk about apple this apple that Apr 04 01:33:58 btw I was quite lazy not uploading the final version of this script from FR to server. The version there not even has temperature plain value, not to mention the statusbyte with all the bits in there Apr 04 01:35:17 * ShadowJK has all the bits Apr 04 01:51:22 GAN900: GENEVEN IS AN ARSEHOLE Apr 04 01:51:36 crashanddie, no shit? Apr 04 01:51:43 lol... [CapsLockWarning: Crashanddie @ #maemo] Apr 04 01:51:57 WHAT? Apr 04 01:52:04 * RobbieAB is curious. Apr 04 01:52:15 Ok, that didn't trigger any warning for me :s Apr 04 01:52:49 RobbieAB: I doubt we use the same client/scripts Apr 04 01:53:11 crashanddie: Oh, it's a warning by your client... fair enough Apr 04 01:53:12 GAN900: check tmo Apr 04 01:53:30 I was sort of expecting it as a bot warning or something :p Apr 04 01:56:08 crashanddie, lol Apr 04 01:56:31 GeneralAntilles: have you seen what he posted in off topic? I mean, seriously? Apr 04 01:56:45 crashanddie, nope. Apr 04 01:56:53 crashanddie, but that guy is trouble. Apr 04 01:57:01 Moderators Need Moderation Apr 04 01:57:05 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=594442#post594442 Apr 04 01:58:56 crashanddie, lol, I love that scroll picture. Apr 04 01:59:07 scroll picture? Apr 04 01:59:17 VDVsx has a look like "What the hell kind of silly shit have I gotten myself into? . . . " Apr 04 01:59:22 haha Apr 04 01:59:27 yeah Apr 04 02:03:21 * RobbieAB is really bashing his system... loads of 32bit binaries... *shudder* Apr 04 02:05:15 GeneralAntilles: I'm this close |<---->| to say "Screw you" and give up my mod status Apr 04 02:05:19 (actual scale) Apr 04 02:05:27 crashanddie, meh. Apr 04 02:05:41 nha seriously, I'm sick of only getting shit Apr 04 02:05:42 I'd just do my pest to ignore him. Apr 04 02:05:46 Hehe Apr 04 02:05:54 That's what a moderator position IS. Apr 04 02:05:56 when we do something, we get shit Apr 04 02:06:00 It's not a thanks-filled job. :P Apr 04 02:06:00 when we don't, we get shit Apr 04 02:06:09 You're there to clean up shit and take shit. Apr 04 02:06:19 well, I have better things to do with my days Apr 04 02:06:26 you got elected, you clean up the shit Apr 04 02:06:27 Then resign. ;) Apr 04 02:06:34 Screw that! :P Apr 04 02:06:37 I'm a facilitator. Apr 04 02:06:42 I con other people into cleaning up the shit. Apr 04 02:07:15 the election wasn't about mods, surely Apr 04 02:07:23 No, it's not. Apr 04 02:08:43 ShadowJK: I think there's a bit more to it Apr 04 02:09:32 I'm installing my sdk, and making it up as I go along. Apr 04 02:09:54 I wonder if it would work an a 64bit non-multi-lib system... Apr 04 02:12:31 * MohammadAG_ is still trying to figure out how to flash a kernel on device. Apr 04 02:13:21 * RobbieAB is pondering just inserting kernel modules against the standard kernel Apr 04 02:14:21 I freely admit my proposed package is likely to be utterly vile :D Apr 04 02:14:23 * MohammadAG only has a zImage atm so he has to use flasher Apr 04 02:15:15 I just need a couple of bits of functionality that aren't in the kernel. Apr 04 02:15:24 If I can use a loadable module to add them... Apr 04 02:30:43 is meego going to be anymore open? Apr 04 02:33:45 GeneralAntilles: I'm tempted to post this to his public moaning: http://img263.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20100404at121.png/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 04 02:59:58 2010