**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 10 02:59:57 2010
Apr 10 03:01:52 <Guest98600> It seems that the mer does not need GPU. so why mer can run on the ARM9 based device and the maemo can not
Apr 10 03:03:30 <Guest98600> And why the GPU is so important to the maemo system?
Apr 10 03:04:31 <GAN900> Because Maemo 5's desktop needs acceleration
Apr 10 03:04:46 <GAN900> Maemo isn't designed for deployment on non-Nokia hardware
Apr 10 03:04:57 <GAN900> It's not a generic distribution.
Apr 10 03:12:10 <crashanddie> GAN900: having fun?
Apr 10 03:15:28 <trip0> GAN900, isn't the GPU on the n900 exactly the same as other ARM hardware?  PowerVR is in just about everything in that space it seems.
Apr 10 03:16:06 <GAN900> trip0, that's like saying GeForce is the same because GeForce is everywhere
Apr 10 03:16:12 <GAN900> and this is ARM9. . . .
Apr 10 03:16:32 <GAN900> crashanddie, Rays destroyed the Yankees.
Apr 10 03:16:36 <GAN900> So, yes.
Apr 10 03:17:21 <crashanddie> GAN900: football?
Apr 10 03:17:42 <trip0> i think it's more a question of whether a driver for gpu accel is available on that platform or not
Apr 10 03:17:55 <GAN900> Baseball
Apr 10 03:18:00 <GAN900> trip0, no
Apr 10 03:18:11 <GAN900> trip0, because it also needs GLES 2.0
Apr 10 03:19:14 <trip0> by "gpu accel" i mean support for all the needs of the software.  which in this case would be GLES 2
Apr 10 03:19:47 <GAN900> Which is pretty much limited to Cortex and a very few ARM11 devices.
Apr 10 03:21:07 <crashanddie> In the Philipines, there's a terrorist group called the Moral Islamist Liberation Front
Apr 10 03:21:16 <crashanddie> which spells out: MILF
Apr 10 03:21:27 <jesus__> :/
Apr 10 03:22:09 <crashanddie> I'm watching an interview with the "MILF Commander"
Apr 10 03:24:22 <Ken-Young> crashanddie, They probably get a lot more hits on the website than any other militant Islamist group.
Apr 10 03:24:44 <crashanddie> aye
Apr 10 03:24:47 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Apr 10 03:28:34 <crashanddie> lmao
Apr 10 03:28:38 <crashanddie> the MILF is on Facebook
Apr 10 03:28:39 <crashanddie> http://www.facebook.com/pages/luwarancom/390099909273?ref=ts
Apr 10 03:53:48 <spencer> anyone can help me on a dbus mce request question??
Apr 10 03:58:25 <joga> spencer: just ask
Apr 10 04:03:56 <trip0> bah
Apr 10 04:04:11 <trip0> wth is Documents located on the file system?
Apr 10 04:04:47 <trip0> bah
Apr 10 04:04:49 <trip0> .documents
Apr 10 04:04:50 <trip0> fail
Apr 10 04:06:13 * trip0 installs chromium
Apr 10 04:06:39 <trip0> wth did google choose gtk over qt...
Apr 10 04:06:42 <trip0> makes no sense...
Apr 10 04:28:25 <spencer> joga: i'm trying to run a dbus_g_proxy_new_for_name with the MCE stuff and can't get the proxy populated.. and the error message returned NULL... what did i do wrong??
Apr 10 04:30:21 <spencer> joga, the syntax is:     proxy = dbus_g_proxy_new_for_name(dbusconn, MCE_SERVICE, MCE_REQUEST_PATH, MCE_REQUEST_IF);
Apr 10 04:52:53 <ds3> boy does Maps suck
Apr 10 04:55:42 <xbluejackx> anyone know what dir personal ip address installs on? i cant find the config file to mod....
Apr 10 04:58:16 <ml-mobile> config files should always be in /home/user or /etc
Apr 10 05:01:09 <xbluejackx> ya i was looking there but did not see the dir for this app..
Apr 10 05:02:05 <xbluejackx> i want to mod the background shade to transparent
Apr 10 05:02:44 <xbluejackx> its just a png tweek but i can not find it lol
Apr 10 05:09:58 <DocScrutinizer> eh?
Apr 10 05:10:12 <DocScrutinizer> /usr/share/* ?
Apr 10 05:58:33 <dottedmag> Is there way to download pre-PR-1.2 scratchbox/SDK?
Apr 10 06:00:38 <shinkamui> hey
Apr 10 06:00:41 <shinkamui> am i an asshole?
Apr 10 06:00:45 <shinkamui> did PR 1.2 get released?
Apr 10 06:00:59 <shinkamui> "I started this on Saturday, and have spent pretty much all of today getting it to run on the n900 (SDK issues, PR1.2 vs 1.1.1, a Qt/compiler bug, git problems .. I've been through all sorts of hell :P"
Apr 10 06:04:05 <Stskeeps> i don't think it's relased to public yet
Apr 10 06:04:33 <shinkamui> ok, I was thinking that too, maybe only sdk and to special testers
Apr 10 06:04:35 <shinkamui> :(
Apr 10 06:04:41 <Stskeeps> sdk is out
Apr 10 06:04:55 <shinkamui> how long as the 1.2 sdk been out
Apr 10 06:04:58 <shinkamui> ?
Apr 10 06:05:00 <Stskeeps> for too long, some might say
Apr 10 06:05:12 <shinkamui> lol
Apr 10 06:05:18 <Stskeeps> and then there's people with access to internal releases obviously, but those cannot be distributed
Apr 10 06:05:22 <acidjazz> any1 put chromium on an n900 yet
Apr 10 06:05:33 <Stskeeps> acidjazz: yes, they did, i think
Apr 10 06:05:40 <acidjazz> i know its possible but
Apr 10 06:05:43 <acidjazz> has any1 in here done it
Apr 10 06:05:49 <microlith> it has been, but it is (sadly) not in the repository
Apr 10 06:07:20 <shinkamui> acidjazz, http://jacekowski.org/maemo/
Apr 10 06:07:34 <acidjazz> is it a replacement?
Apr 10 06:07:36 <shinkamui> don't get your nuts tied in a bow though
Apr 10 06:07:37 <acidjazz> or jsut an app thatll run
Apr 10 06:07:42 <shinkamui> aka testicular torsion
Apr 10 06:07:44 <shinkamui> :-D
Apr 10 06:07:45 <acidjazz> oh its package
Apr 10 06:07:46 <acidjazz> k
Apr 10 06:07:53 <shinkamui> it crashes, A LOT
Apr 10 06:08:15 <shinkamui> its more like a POC than a daily use
Apr 10 06:09:22 <acidjazz> meh
Apr 10 06:10:42 <shinkamui> well try it anyway
Apr 10 06:11:04 <shinkamui> im personally very happy with the communities ports as of late
Apr 10 06:11:10 <shinkamui> facebrick especially
Apr 10 06:11:31 <shinkamui> every time I get sad about the N900 starting to stagnate again, some new cool stuff is ported
Apr 10 06:11:40 <shinkamui> like Picodrive
Apr 10 06:11:49 <shinkamui> or PCS-x gets a speed boost
Apr 10 06:11:55 <shinkamui> or Facebrick facebook local client
Apr 10 06:11:59 <shinkamui> :)
Apr 10 06:12:22 <shinkamui> I would really like to see PR 1.2
Apr 10 06:12:45 <shinkamui> I hope that a lot of the missing little functions are starting to show up
Apr 10 06:13:25 <crashanddie> shinkamui: STOP TALKING TO YOURSELF
Apr 10 06:14:02 <shinkamui> hi crash
Apr 10 06:14:11 <shinkamui> you always rain on my parade :)
Apr 10 06:14:35 * RST38h yawns and wonders if he is ever going to hear anything new here
Apr 10 06:15:03 <crashanddie> RST38h: the butterflies of doom welcome you to their anniversary tea party.
Apr 10 06:15:58 <RST38h> thanks, I hope there is gonna be bloody sacrifice
Apr 10 06:16:25 <acidjazz> yea shinkamui the device itself is awesomely easy to use for anything
Apr 10 06:16:34 <acidjazz> just not really a phone for a phone company
Apr 10 07:07:00 <RST38h> "We have shot an amazing number of people, but to my knowledge, none has ever proven to be a threat," said McChrystal during a recent video-conference with troops
Apr 10 07:07:05 <RST38h> eek
Apr 10 07:07:50 <RST38h> "...in the nine-plus months I've been here, not a single case where we have engaged in an escalation of force incident and hurt someone has it turned out that the vehicle had a suicide bomb or weapons in it and, in many cases, had families in it."
Apr 10 07:13:37 <korhojoa> RST38h: somehow related to the chopper incident?
Apr 10 07:15:22 <RST38h> korhojoa: Not really, but proves the point that the chopper accident has not been "an unfortunate mistake"
Apr 10 07:16:49 <korhojoa> yeah. because a monochrome video feed from far away really tells the difference between a rpg and a dslr
Apr 10 07:17:55 <RST38h> actually, it does (if you have seen the feed): these guys have got some pretty amazing optics
Apr 10 07:20:19 <RST38h> but here you have got your direct visual contact, and they still managed to off 35+ people in something like twice as many accidents, and *none* of them have been the threat. That's a nice, well documented clusterfuck, as far as I care
Apr 10 07:46:11 <Stskeeps> ick, polish president plane in crash
Apr 10 07:47:05 <pupnik> politicians and airline safety dont seem to mix well inm any way
Apr 10 07:48:21 <RST38h> Stskeeps: was he inside?
Apr 10 07:50:21 <nidO> seems so
Apr 10 07:52:12 <kamui__> yea
Apr 10 08:02:44 <LuciusMare> Hi, is there a way how to manually set the focus, etc? Autofocus seems to fail, it always skips the "right" focus, and stays where it's blur...
Apr 10 08:03:50 <Chiku|dc> semi push the button?
Apr 10 08:04:42 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Apr 10 08:04:43 <LuciusMare> then it tries to autofocus
Apr 10 08:04:47 <LuciusMare> Jaffa: morning
Apr 10 08:05:39 <Chiku|dc> autofocus for good distance then you can move it
Apr 10 08:06:00 <Chiku|dc> then it's not more autofocus for same distance
Apr 10 08:06:12 <LuciusMare> hm :)
Apr 10 08:07:27 <RST38h> gooooooooood
Apr 10 08:08:04 <LuciusMare> RST38h: whaaaaaaat?
Apr 10 08:08:56 <LuciusMare> whoops
Apr 10 08:26:10 <crashanddie> lmao
Apr 10 08:26:46 <crashanddie> virgin galactic, one of the companies that offers space travel, only offers one solution for people who need to go to the loo during the 4h flight...
Apr 10 08:26:55 <crashanddie> nappies
Apr 10 08:28:02 <crashanddie> the coder in me dies a little: http://pastebin.com/7MBdFjLQ
Apr 10 08:28:29 <pupnik> can i get something like a beagleboard with omap4430 or equivalent yet?
Apr 10 08:29:25 <lbt> crashanddie: java does that to you
Apr 10 08:29:38 <crashanddie> lbt: not my code, btw
Apr 10 08:31:01 <RST38h> Ah, how convenient
Apr 10 08:32:32 <RST38h> The Tentacled One has been really creative today. Must be the good weather.
Apr 10 08:34:32 <crashanddie> RST38h: hmm?
Apr 10 08:36:54 <RST38h> crashanddie: His Tentacledness offed the Polish president with his full entourage (132 people), in Russian airspace, flying a Russian made plane, flying to perform a memorial service at the mass Polish grave
Apr 10 08:37:20 <crashanddie> Tentacledness?
Apr 10 08:37:32 <nidO> or, more accurately, 85 people on the plane died when the pilot hit some trees while coming in to land.
Apr 10 08:37:39 <RST38h> crashanddie: 500 meters from the airstrip. Can you imagine all the conspiracy theories that are going to bloom now? =)
Apr 10 08:37:58 <RST38h> nid0: latest count is 132
Apr 10 08:38:13 <crashanddie> Yay, Greece is broke
Apr 10 08:38:15 <nidO> latest count everywhere i can see is 85 delegates, 2 pilots
Apr 10 08:38:24 <RST38h> crashanddie: yes, but that is coming later this year =)
Apr 10 08:38:54 <RST38h> nid0: Oh well, 40 people either way do not make much of a difference in this case
Apr 10 08:38:56 <crashanddie> lol... They're at BBB-
Apr 10 08:39:15 <crashanddie> RST38h: that's one status above most african states
Apr 10 08:39:21 <crashanddie> (credit rating)
Apr 10 08:40:15 <RST38h> crashanddie: Can you imagine, we are going there for a vacation this summer!
Apr 10 08:40:19 <pupnik> greek govt != greece  :)
Apr 10 08:40:36 <RST38h> crashanddie: If we are real lucky, may get to participate in rioting!
Apr 10 08:40:39 <lbt> hmmph... looks like the spammers have sorted out greylisting
Apr 10 08:41:00 <pupnik> i say next maemo summit at my place
Apr 10 08:41:46 <RST38h> pupnik: Sure about it? Greece is gonna be real cheap this fall...
Apr 10 08:44:18 <pupnik> maybe if we travel in well armed packs
Apr 10 08:44:40 <RST38h> pupnik: Ah come one, judging from the last time, it is gonna be students, mostly
Apr 10 08:44:48 <pupnik> :) jk
Apr 10 08:44:55 <RST38h> pupnik: Stay away from large university centers, and you will be ok
Apr 10 08:45:26 <red> greece <3
Apr 10 08:48:13 * RST38h wonders how it is going to work: If Greece had its own currency, the effect would be well known. But they are using euros. How is this one going to work out?
Apr 10 08:56:47 <noexperience> good evening everyone, I have no experience whatsoever in programming. However, since we are playing bingo at work (for everyday that there is no injury, $1 dollar gets added to a pot) and the person that gets BINGO gets to win that pot of money. I'd like to make a program that will work on my n900. I have some very faint linux knowledge, I know how to compile a kernel, know how to use the command line. I just have never tried to deal with C++ or python or 
Apr 10 08:58:36 <noexperience> probably something very easy for some of you guys, but I'd like some pointers, perhaps some web tutorials on how to start programming with the specific goal to be able to come up with some bingo app for the n900. Any help here is appreciated!
Apr 10 09:00:27 <RST38h> noexperience: I suggest you learn to program in C, C++, or Python first. On your desktop.
Apr 10 09:00:47 <RST38h> noexperience: google for "python programming beginners" for example
Apr 10 09:00:50 <nidO> noexperience: also read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39879
Apr 10 09:00:50 <noexperience> RST38h: Yeah, I figured I might have to do that.
Apr 10 09:01:03 <nidO> itll run you through the basics of python and qt in a 30 minute guide
Apr 10 09:01:15 <trumee> damn, getting sip to work over openvpn on n900 is difficult.
Apr 10 09:01:44 <noexperience> RST38h: nidO thank you very much. I'm assuming. is it easy to implement images into like a phthon script? or should i just make "tables/cells" with the bingo numbers in them?
Apr 10 09:01:51 <noexperience> nidO: bookmarked :D
Apr 10 09:02:02 <trumee> i dont want to use sip in public wifi without vpn as it is so insecure :(
Apr 10 09:02:32 <nidO> either way is doable. that thread is only a hello world, but itll give you all the pieces of writing a pyqt app and getting it working, from then you just need to actually learn the python to code
Apr 10 09:02:39 <trumee> anybody has working steup on sip over openvpn?
Apr 10 09:03:16 <RST38h> noexperience: you should learn programming before thinking of how you are going to implement it
Apr 10 09:04:49 <noexperience> RST38h: I think it'll be some time for me before I'll get a bingo app up but I'll definitely be looking into that. I want to learn on how to program.
Apr 10 09:05:35 <trumee> i am stuck, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=603336&postcount=35
Apr 10 09:06:13 <RST38h> nid0: Ok, total count 132, 87 dead, and it is not clear why they say that "everybody is dead" with these numbers.
Apr 10 09:07:46 <SpeedEvil> Some of the unimportant people might have survived.
Apr 10 09:08:11 <shvedsky> I doubt that they really had the time to count survivors.
Apr 10 09:08:18 <shvedsky> misunderstanding perhaps
Apr 10 09:10:05 <TomaszD> *sigh*
Apr 10 09:10:19 * Noobmonk3y waves
Apr 10 09:10:59 <trumee> if there would have been a freepbx for freesiwtch, i would have dumped asterisk. freeswitch has encryption support unlike asterisk.
Apr 10 09:12:51 <trumee> is it possible to produce a debug file for the sip client in n900. atleast that will say something about why it doesnt want to connect to the asterisk server.
Apr 10 09:13:47 * Noobmonk3y thinks it is almost time for a bbq on the beach.......
Apr 10 09:15:19 <noexperience> RST38h: nidO thanks again. Time for me to start reading now.
Apr 10 09:17:00 <SpeedEvil> trumee: tcpdump?
Apr 10 09:17:46 <MohammadAG> Noobmonk3y, overclock the N900 and turn on joikuspot
Apr 10 09:17:50 <trumee> SpeedEvil: guess, need to try that. i am hoping somebody with more knowledge about openvpn could help me.
Apr 10 09:17:52 <MohammadAG> portable grill ftw
Apr 10 09:18:06 <Noobmonk3y> lol......!!! thought so!
Apr 10 09:18:25 <Noobmonk3y> cooked n900 mmmmmmmm lovely
Apr 10 09:19:22 <MohammadAG> Noobmonk3y, it's also a portable heater
Apr 10 09:20:08 <Noobmonk3y> haha :) dual purpose! i like!
Apr 10 09:20:09 <nidO> mmm, food
Apr 10 09:33:10 <adalal> jacekowski: are you there?
Apr 10 10:09:57 <ptl_demands_PR12> I see there is python-twitter and python-facebook but no python-orkut. Should I use the opensocial API or opensocial is not meant to standalone log in and get details about contacts in orkut?
Apr 10 10:28:17 <Jaffa> ptl_demands_PR12: Someone's been looking at that for Hermes. Some sites aren't going to have freebie libraries I can reuse
Apr 10 10:29:04 <Jaffa> GAN900: ping (or anyone else) know where there's a set of high quality logos for maemo.org so I don't have to edit the site's graphics?
Apr 10 10:33:39 <Termana> Jaffa: 1589 x 206?
Apr 10 10:34:05 <Jaffa> Termana: Anything
Apr 10 10:34:06 <trumee> is there any dbus script to reset the call timers?
Apr 10 10:34:11 <Termana> Jaffa: http://static.maemo.org/static/8/82d73d94951e11ddb7a5dd6c726a1e031e03_maemo_org_logo.png
Apr 10 10:34:22 <Jaffa> Termana: Thanks!
Apr 10 10:34:33 <trumee> i can see a dbus command for clearing gprs counters, but nothing for call timer
Apr 10 10:35:33 <trumee> i want to setup a cron to clear the call timer each month so that i dont go above my limit of free minutes.
Apr 10 10:37:16 <trumee> fcron is so nice btw, feel right at home with it!
Apr 10 10:37:22 <nidO> trumee: which network?
Apr 10 10:37:29 <trumee> nidO: three in the UK
Apr 10 10:37:45 <nidO> does 3 not have the option to setup allowance alerts?
Apr 10 10:38:25 <trumee> nidO: oh yes i used to have while on a yearly contract plan, but stupid company dont do that on simfree plan
Apr 10 10:38:41 <nidO> doh
Apr 10 10:38:50 * Shapeshifter would like ncmpcpp on his n900 but is too lazy to make a package ;)
Apr 10 10:51:45 * Shapeshifter uses ssh instead and just runs it on the mpd server itself. (the joys of linux!)
Apr 10 10:55:11 <papo> hi
Apr 10 10:55:34 <papo> I'm wondering whether I can import routes into the "map" application on my n900
Apr 10 10:55:50 <papo> or some other application
Apr 10 10:58:10 <papo> I have this KML with a trail I'd like to check out this afternoon but I fail to import it
Apr 10 11:27:12 <ptl_demands_PR12> Jaffa: ok, thanks. You mean with Orkut we'll have to do screen scraping?
Apr 10 11:27:27 <Jaffa> ptl_demands_PR12: No, I've been led to believe there's an API
Apr 10 11:29:43 * VDVsx yawns :0
Apr 10 11:33:26 <RST38h> vdvsx moo
Apr 10 11:33:49 * VDVsx moooss at RST38h :)
Apr 10 11:36:31 <jacekowski> morning
Apr 10 11:40:16 <RST38h> Ahha, the body count stabilizes at 96.
Apr 10 11:40:49 <RST38h> VDVsx: Hey, I followed your request and registered with GSoC. What exactly do you want me to do now? Vote for projects?
Apr 10 11:42:11 <VDVsx> RST38h, yes, I'll send instructions today :)
Apr 10 11:42:39 <cotigao> hi
Apr 10 11:43:15 * VDVsx curses the Finnish kb in the n900 :Grrr
Apr 10 11:43:33 <RST38h> How come you have got one with .fi keyboard, anyway?
Apr 10 11:44:40 <RST38h> moo rm_you
Apr 10 11:46:00 <VDVsx> RST38h, well, dunno, could't get one with US/UK kb :D
Apr 10 11:47:19 <RST38h> evil
Apr 10 11:50:38 * Arkenoi got yet another strange problem with "cyrillic_be" on four-arrows keyboard (it is combined with left arrow there). if word autocompletion is on, i have to press it twice!
Apr 10 11:52:35 <RST38h> Arkenoi: what exactly is a cyrillic four-arrows keyboard?
Apr 10 11:52:44 * RST38h has never seen this one
Apr 10 11:53:18 <Arkenoi> RST38h, so-called "non-rostest", i got one with my new phone, i think i like it more than two-arrows as i never get problems with games
Apr 10 11:54:05 <FIQ> i've forgotten how to put easy debian programs in fullscreen
Apr 10 11:54:22 <FIQ> so well, how did i do it? :p
Apr 10 11:54:43 <RST38h> Arkenoi: Yes, but what country are they made for???
Apr 10 11:55:59 <FIQ> nvm
Apr 10 11:56:00 <Arkenoi> rst38h: don't know, i guess someone simply had drawn a sketch and ordered it from china, it is not an official thing
Apr 10 11:56:33 <Arkenoi> as i told before phones that are sold with that one even do not have correct keyboard mapping file inside
Apr 10 11:56:40 <Arkenoi> i had to load it by myself
Apr 10 11:58:01 <RST38h> Arkenoi: holy shit
Apr 10 11:58:11 <RST38h> Arkenoi: are you sure it is a real n900? =)
Apr 10 11:58:15 <RST38h> heya javispedro
Apr 10 11:58:27 <javispedro> morning
Apr 10 11:58:45 <Arkenoi> rst38h: actually it is better than "real one" i had
Apr 10 11:59:03 <Arkenoi> mechanics are significanlty improved
Apr 10 12:01:25 <Arkenoi> and i guess "rogue" warranty is better than official nokia one just because there could be nothing worse
Apr 10 12:02:06 <Arkenoi> and it costs $630 instead of $850
Apr 10 12:02:24 <Surfa> do you actually believe that yourself?
Apr 10 12:02:45 <Arkenoi> which part?
Apr 10 12:03:04 <RST38h> Arkenoi: gotta see it to believe it =)
Apr 10 12:03:31 <RST38h> Arkenoi: Does the Ctrl+Space switch work? It does not work on UK/US models, even if you select Russian as the second language
Apr 10 12:03:33 <Arkenoi> rst38h: np
Apr 10 12:03:38 <Arkenoi> yes, it works
Apr 10 12:03:42 <RST38h> coool
Apr 10 12:03:50 <Arkenoi> actually it is middle east model with replaced keyboard mat
Apr 10 12:04:04 <RST38h> Interesting...
Apr 10 12:05:20 * Arkenoi wonders if those $470 n900's from price.ru are real
Apr 10 12:09:02 * RST38h wonders how much Nokia should screw up to force resellers order CUSTOM KEYBOARD MATS for its phones
Apr 10 12:09:03 <pupnik> somebody buy one :)
Apr 10 12:09:47 <pupnik> i have to say hooray to barcelona
Apr 10 12:09:53 <lcuk> VDVsx, just more incentive to get used to it!
Apr 10 12:10:01 <lcuk> hey RST38h pupnik
Apr 10 12:10:02 <RST38h> I mean, couldn't all these mighty Nokian UX designers figure out that their keyboard layouts (2 arrows, all letters mixed) are crap?
Apr 10 12:10:06 <RST38h> EHLO lcuk
Apr 10 12:11:06 <javispedro> aha, world war 3
Apr 10 12:11:17 <RST38h> javis: what? again?
Apr 10 12:11:18 <VDVsx> lcuk, I still have one with normal kb, hard decision now :D
Apr 10 12:11:51 <Arkenoi> rst38: given generic ones are available at finnish internet stores for eur.14 , i wonder WHY russian guys did go that way
Apr 10 12:11:51 * javispedro is tricked by todays news into a flash video, which causes browserd to crash, causing him to lose a 1000 word email
Apr 10 12:12:01 <Arkenoi> 14, not .14 ;-)
Apr 10 12:12:19 * javispedro rm -f libflashplugin.so
Apr 10 12:12:36 <RST38h> Arkenoi: Well, UK/US kbds do not have cyrillic labels and RU kbds are just plain uncomfortable
Apr 10 12:12:42 <lcuk> javispedro, thats your problem
Apr 10 12:12:49 <RST38h> So, I can see why they ordered custom mats
Apr 10 12:12:50 <frals> VDVsx: the fi/se keyboard is the *normal* kb ;)
Apr 10 12:12:51 <lcuk> 1000 word emails should be deleted
Apr 10 12:13:10 <VDVsx> frals, NO!!!
Apr 10 12:13:10 * RST38h asks the Tentacled One to do something about frals
Apr 10 12:13:19 <lcuk> oled can be put onto flexible substrate cant it
Apr 10 12:13:25 <javispedro> lcuk :)
Apr 10 12:14:04 <RST38h> Yes, I understand He is busy feasting on various Polish dignitaries right now, but still...
Apr 10 12:14:42 <javispedro> he always has time for the finnish doesn't him
Apr 10 12:14:44 <frals> pretty good move flying president and a bunch of other big shots in the government in a plane from the 60s
Apr 10 12:15:00 <frals> in the *same* plane
Apr 10 12:15:23 <jacekowski> i'm not sure if you know that most of plane that airlines have now are at least 20 years old
Apr 10 12:15:26 <RST38h> frals: Oh, it apparently gets funnier
Apr 10 12:15:41 <jacekowski> and designs are even older
Apr 10 12:15:44 <RST38h> frals: The ATC offered them to land in Minsk or Moscow, due to heavy fog in Smolensk
Apr 10 12:15:44 <javispedro> yeah, they should always fleet a private plane for each of those!
Apr 10 12:15:58 <RST38h> frals: They refused. Made 4 (four!) attempts at landing, crashed at the last attempt
Apr 10 12:16:11 <frals> RST38h: he, pretty bad :<
Apr 10 12:16:18 <lcuk> well i didnt expect them to crash, then carry on to make further attempts
Apr 10 12:16:23 <frals> lol lcuk
Apr 10 12:16:25 <lcuk> :S tis a bad day
Apr 10 12:16:26 <RST38h> frals: So, in short, they have been working on this =)
Apr 10 12:16:33 <jacekowski> besides, what happened?
Apr 10 12:17:17 <lcuk> rst i didnt know about the refusal to transfer
Apr 10 12:18:37 <RST38h> lcuk: rbc.ru has some statements from the Smolensk ATC, not sure how truthful
Apr 10 12:19:18 <javispedro> reuters also said among those lines
Apr 10 12:19:54 <javispedro> 4 times then crashes with a ... tree (cue conspiracy theories)
Apr 10 12:20:26 <SpeedEvil> Too many poles on one side of the plane leads to instability.
Apr 10 12:20:41 <lcuk> :S
Apr 10 12:21:01 <lcuk> trees are stubborn
Apr 10 12:21:04 <javispedro> clearly, the explosion was from the inside!
Apr 10 12:22:15 * lcuk >> easter fair with kids
Apr 10 12:22:22 <lcuk> back later
Apr 10 12:22:35 <javispedro> cya
Apr 10 12:26:16 <jacekowski> it's probably prime minister that sabotaged that plane
Apr 10 12:26:28 <jacekowski> hoping that he will became president
Apr 10 12:26:45 <RST38h> jacekowski: Ok, send him over with the next plane.
Apr 10 12:30:34 * javispedro remembers when we nearly had something like because some retard used a private helicopter to commute, daily.
Apr 10 12:38:16 <SpeedEvil> Nothing wrong with that.
Apr 10 12:38:21 <SpeedEvil> (private helicopter)
Apr 10 12:38:24 <SpeedEvil> If you're competant.
Apr 10 12:58:33 * ShadowJK wants to try flying one
Apr 10 12:58:46 <jacekowski> as a pilot?
Apr 10 12:59:24 <jacekowski> in the end basic rules why it flies are simple
Apr 10 12:59:30 <jacekowski> as autopilot can fly it
Apr 10 12:59:50 <jonne> is the new Firefox beta out yet? I remember reading about it coming out yesterday or something, but i can't find a package anywhere
Apr 10 13:00:24 <jacekowski> chromium is out
Apr 10 13:01:42 <DocScrutinizer> VDVsx: (kbd) http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=n900&x=0&y=0
Apr 10 13:01:54 <DocScrutinizer> moo btw
Apr 10 13:02:55 <VDVsx> DocScrutinizer, lol, nice :)
Apr 10 13:03:17 <ech0Asus> how to clear MMS history? I have old MMS's that are from another sim card that I can't delete..
Apr 10 13:03:30 <ech0Asus> in fMMS? Any ideas?
Apr 10 13:03:52 <DocScrutinizer> VDVsx: http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4575_Original-Nokia-N900-Keypad-QWERTY--english-.html
Apr 10 13:04:02 <RST38h> jonne: they will release it as soon as it finishes scrolling to the end of the slashdot thread about its own release
Apr 10 13:04:11 <ech0Asus> i think its trying to delete them off tmo's server
Apr 10 13:04:31 <RST38h> jonne: which should take a few more hours, unless it still hangs n900 so hard that it does not even try to charge when fennec is running
Apr 10 13:05:22 <jonne> umm, ok...
Apr 10 13:16:30 <frals> ech0Asus: fMMS doesnt care what sim card was in when the message was sent, it should delete it regardless
Apr 10 13:17:06 <ech0Asus> fails to delete any messages i've recieved and wont open any either lol
Apr 10 13:17:14 <frals> send me the logfile
Apr 10 13:17:23 <frals> <myircnick>@frals.se
Apr 10 13:17:34 <ech0Asus> seems to just crash now when i open fmms too
Apr 10 13:17:38 <ech0Asus> dunno what happened now
Apr 10 13:18:02 <ech0Asus> yeah just closes on its own now grr
Apr 10 13:18:12 <ech0Asus> where do i find this logfile?
Apr 10 13:18:18 <frals> /tmp/fmms.log
Apr 10 13:18:25 <ech0Asus> k i will pastebin it
Apr 10 13:18:33 <frals> the fact that it crashes on launch is probably because youre running 0.6.1
Apr 10 13:18:45 <frals> i fuckedu p with x-osso-service so it doesnt kill the app properly
Apr 10 13:18:57 <frals> if you launch it from terminal it should work (/opt/fmms/fmms_gui.py)
Apr 10 13:19:14 <ech0Asus> it was workin a second ago i sent my first mms
Apr 10 13:19:15 <ech0Asus> lol
Apr 10 13:19:24 <ech0Asus> i dunno i haven't change anything..
Apr 10 13:19:29 <ech0Asus> sent a reply back
Apr 10 13:19:29 <frals> yeah after the sender sends a message successfully it breaks :p
Apr 10 13:19:37 <ech0Asus> ah ok
Apr 10 13:19:40 <ech0Asus> yeah i sent a reply
Apr 10 13:19:44 <DocScrutinizer> just hits my mind: if OC damage was a mere thermal issue, then TI for sure hadn't specified MTBF for clockfrequency but rather for coretemperature
Apr 10 13:19:47 <frals> ive fixed it in 0.6.2 but the package promoter seems fubar
Apr 10 13:20:08 <ech0Asus> ok grabbing the log now
Apr 10 13:20:18 <frals> X-Fade: package importer seems broke for -devel: http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmms/
Apr 10 13:22:17 <ech0Asus> have no files in /tmp/
Apr 10 13:22:30 <frals> did you just reboot?
Apr 10 13:22:41 <ech0Asus> not that im aware of
Apr 10 13:22:49 <ech0Asus> its been charging all night
Apr 10 13:23:02 <ech0Asus> been on..
Apr 10 13:23:03 <frals> should be plenty of files /tmp/
Apr 10 13:23:10 <ech0Asus> i have nothing lol
Apr 10 13:23:30 <ech0Asus> its empty folder
Apr 10 13:23:33 <RST38h> DocScrut: that is not given
Apr 10 13:23:44 <frals> no idea then im afraid :P
Apr 10 13:24:03 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: not?
Apr 10 13:24:23 <RST38h> DocScrut: In fact, there may be multiple reasons not to overclock (timings go haywire, battery drains faster, chip itself degrades with time, either from higher temperature or higher voltage)
Apr 10 13:24:43 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Apr 10 13:24:56 <RST38h> DocScrut: TI is not really obligated to inform you of the exact reason
Apr 10 13:25:03 <RST38h> DocScrut: All they say - "don't"
Apr 10 13:25:22 <ech0Asus> what do i do to fix it's crashing? is there an updated version out?
Apr 10 13:25:46 <RST38h> DocScrut: Intel does it a bit differently nowadays, by defining thermal profiles, but that is mostly because its CPUs get so freaking hot
Apr 10 13:26:07 <frals> ech0Asus: yes, but its not in the repo yet for some reason
Apr 10 13:26:14 <RST38h> DocScrut: TI just says "don't".
Apr 10 13:26:19 <ech0Asus> on the garage site?
Apr 10 13:26:20 <frals> you can manually kill it from xterm; ps a|grep fmms
Apr 10 13:26:24 <frals> and then kill fmms_gui.py
Apr 10 13:26:29 <DocScrutinizer> aiu the posts here (lazy ass not checked ds myself) TI said 'MTBF 500years on 400MHz, 200h on 750MHz' or similar
Apr 10 13:26:39 <frals> which will let you launch it from the app menu again
Apr 10 13:26:54 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: temperature is related to frequency
Apr 10 13:27:48 <ShadowJK> jacekowski, yes as pilot
Apr 10 13:27:59 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: yeah, and also to weather in my pocket. If it was a mere thermal issue, why would TI introduce undetermined factors and state MTBF for different freq rather than temp?
Apr 10 13:28:41 <jacekowski> i'm just saying that there is relation between frequency and other factors that decrease MTBF
Apr 10 13:28:51 <jacekowski> like higher currents, voltage and temperature
Apr 10 13:28:51 <ShadowJK> jacekowski, and sure, theory is simple, but so is the theory behind balancing a soccer ball ontop of a 10 metre pole in the wind
Apr 10 13:29:04 <ech0Asus> does recieving MMS function or just sending?
Apr 10 13:29:14 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: little bit of glue
Apr 10 13:29:21 <ShadowJK> no glue
Apr 10 13:29:40 <ech0Asus> i've recieved but was never able to open any
Apr 10 13:29:43 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: but i mean, computer can fly it
Apr 10 13:30:12 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: i think most of pilot training is dealing with non standard situations
Apr 10 13:30:41 <ech0Asus> frals, thanks for your time i appreciate it. will bbl and will keep an eye out for the update.
Apr 10 13:31:31 <ShadowJK> jacekowski, when you've got forward speed in a helicopter, it flies like a badly trimmed airplane, and any autopilot would keep it in the air
Apr 10 13:31:56 <ShadowJK> most of the training is spent on hovering :)
Apr 10 13:32:41 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: see, current into a chip pin is a function of voltage, but nobody would specify the current @6V for ABS MAX RATING when the chip actually breaks at 6V and not at a certain current
Apr 10 13:32:43 <jacekowski> and i suppose it's a lot about airplane/helicopter specific things
Apr 10 13:32:50 <jacekowski> like where is your landing gear switch
Apr 10 13:33:21 * ShadowJK has seen videos where an instructor on the ground walks up under the chopper and pulls on the skids, and the chopper flew off to the side about 50m :)
Apr 10 13:33:45 <frals> ech0Asus: both send and recv should work, seems to work for most people anyway ;) np
Apr 10 13:34:04 <trumee> i did "apt-get install bounce" and now get a "E2: Handler silently failed", what does that mean?
Apr 10 13:35:19 <ShadowJK> Maybe it'd be easier to start with a remote controlled heli, they have gyros feeding servos for extra stability :)
Apr 10 13:35:42 <ShadowJK> So that centering controls essentially mean "hold attitude"
Apr 10 13:36:47 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: i used to play with one
Apr 10 13:37:06 <trumee> ah, means it is in ovi. cool
Apr 10 13:37:08 <MohammadAG> trumee, Nokia broke apt, you can build and compile an old version of apt to make it work again
Apr 10 13:37:19 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: and quite obviously so because I = U * R and you don't know R for sure. Absolutely similarly Temp = Voltage * (freq * const-current/freq) * thermal-resistence_chip2environment, where you don't know at least the 3rd factor
Apr 10 13:37:23 <jacekowski> and i was thinking about buying one but costs were to high to my budget at the time
Apr 10 13:37:33 <MohammadAG> you can't download from Ovi/Joiku repos without using the app manager
Apr 10 13:37:48 <jacekowski> and now i'm too old for that
Apr 10 13:37:49 <trumee> MohammadAG: yup, i am getting it from ovi store.
Apr 10 13:37:51 <ShadowJK> try R-22 in flightgear :)
Apr 10 13:37:56 <MohammadAG> (or using an old version of apt with a changed version number)
Apr 10 13:38:23 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: also autorotation
Apr 10 13:38:34 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: quadcopter
Apr 10 13:38:36 <trumee> anybody bought the laser cut stand. i received mine today. Looks good, but my N900 is in a case and it slips on the stand :(
Apr 10 13:38:41 * SpeedEvil has a design for a hoverboard.
Apr 10 13:38:54 <SpeedEvil> 1*1m, 80Kg, ~4Km max altitude.
Apr 10 13:39:01 <SpeedEvil> Only 5 min endurance though
Apr 10 13:39:15 <SpeedEvil> ~$60000
Apr 10 13:39:17 <DocScrutinizer> err I = U / R , sorry ;-P
Apr 10 13:39:25 <ShadowJK> SpeedEvil, I've succesfully autorotated R22, Lynx, bo105 and ec135 in flightgear
Apr 10 13:39:58 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: fun.
Apr 10 13:40:15 <SpeedEvil> (strictly a paper design - lots of fast discharge li-ion cells, and little ducted fan units.
Apr 10 13:44:08 * DocScrutinizer wonders if you could cut grass when setting a heli into motor-driven + "autorotate" negative hoover rotor setting, while on ground
Apr 10 13:45:57 <trumee> guys, in a public wifi is using gmail and gtalk secure?
Apr 10 13:46:32 <trumee> i would dare note use my sip connection though.
Apr 10 13:46:49 <Jaffa> trumee: Gmail has an "always use HTTPS" option
Apr 10 13:46:55 <DocScrutinizer> nah, centrifugal forces stabilize rotor blades enough to lift a whole heli. should do enough of stabilizing to keep them from hitting ground on negative hoover
Apr 10 13:46:58 <luke-jr> trumee: using g* is never secure
Apr 10 13:46:58 <trumee> and yes i meant gmail via modest.
Apr 10 13:47:11 <trumee> luke-jr: what do you mean?
Apr 10 13:47:22 <luke-jr> trumee: I mean Google can and does look at your content
Apr 10 13:47:28 <trumee> luke-jr: ah! i am more worried about script junkies rather than google :)
Apr 10 13:47:50 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: as can everybody in internet basically
Apr 10 13:48:31 <DocScrutinizer> mails are like postcards (probably I'm not the first who told you)
Apr 10 13:48:35 <luke-jr> for gmail, anything leaving/coming outside Google is plaintext anyway
Apr 10 13:48:39 <trumee> so gmail/gtalk password cannot be retrieved by wireshark?
Apr 10 13:48:42 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, in many choppers actually an unloaded disc would shred the tailboom :)
Apr 10 13:48:57 <luke-jr> gtalk might be somewhat secure if you trust Google
Apr 10 13:49:23 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: heh :-P
Apr 10 13:49:24 <luke-jr> trumee: even with a plaintext link, the password should be hashed
Apr 10 13:49:49 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, typically rotor blades are mounted on hinges
Apr 10 13:49:53 <trumee> luke-jr: so for gmail, the authentication is secure, but email is plain-text?
Apr 10 13:50:41 <ech0Asus> rofl 600$ phone 10$ internet plan
Apr 10 13:50:57 <ShadowJK> On a typical chopper the chopper basically hangs/swings freely under the rotordisc...
Apr 10 13:51:01 <ech0Asus> cause im hood rich
Apr 10 13:51:04 <ech0Asus> haha
Apr 10 13:51:30 <ech0Asus> reminds me of that dumb song big tymers put out
Apr 10 13:51:39 <ShadowJK> So when inverted the body would fall to one side..
Apr 10 13:51:52 <luke-jr> ech0Asus: $10 internet plan? where?
Apr 10 13:52:14 <ech0Asus> luke u have to kinda lie to tmobile but it works
Apr 10 13:52:20 <luke-jr> ...
Apr 10 13:52:43 <ech0Asus> ok sign up for 29$ plan with them, even more plus 500...
Apr 10 13:52:44 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: ask SpeedEvil
Apr 10 13:52:49 <ech0Asus> then once u sign up for that in the store...
Apr 10 13:52:55 <ech0Asus> u can take ur phone and go to there site
Apr 10 13:52:59 <ech0Asus> and add 10$ internet
Apr 10 13:53:03 <luke-jr> that's not $10, that's $39
Apr 10 13:53:05 <ech0Asus> and it works
Apr 10 13:53:20 <ech0Asus> k well its 10 instead of 25/30
Apr 10 13:53:25 <ech0Asus> for dumb phones
Apr 10 13:53:27 <ShadowJK> There are exceptions, bo105 has extra strong blades made from titanium iirc, and not mounted o hinges.. as a result it's extremely agile because the disc has direct influence over the chopper's attitude... Red bull uses it for aerobatics.. Downside is that it's so noisy in hover that nobody wants to fly it :(
Apr 10 13:53:28 <ech0Asus> but is same speeds
Apr 10 13:53:42 <ech0Asus> u just tell the site u use an older nokia phone
Apr 10 13:53:49 <ech0Asus> have tested and is same speeds
Apr 10 13:53:58 <ech0Asus> only difference is price u pay monthly
Apr 10 13:54:30 <luke-jr> do you have to say you use an older phone, or simply that you want service *for* an older phone?
Apr 10 13:54:35 <ech0Asus> find unlimited 3g for less then 40 with no contract lol
Apr 10 13:54:46 <luke-jr> find unlimited 3G period..
Apr 10 13:54:59 <ech0Asus> mines unlimited
Apr 10 13:55:02 <luke-jr> also, I don't mind contracts. :p
Apr 10 13:55:04 <luke-jr> ech0Asus: nonsense
Apr 10 13:55:12 * ShadowJK has 5megabit/s 3g for 10euro per month
Apr 10 13:55:14 <ech0Asus> i have no limit i keep goin
Apr 10 13:55:28 <ShadowJK> I don't know where the limit is, one month I used 60 gigs
Apr 10 13:55:36 <luke-jr> O.o
Apr 10 13:55:38 <ech0Asus> as much as it can download it keeps goins
Apr 10 13:56:01 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: you by any incidence heard what became of the heli-'bike' backpack one-seat dual-disk coax heli (diameter like 3 meters, coax dual disk, 4 motorbike motors)?
Apr 10 13:56:29 <ShadowJK> i rememberm seeing it, but that's all
Apr 10 13:56:29 <ech0Asus> when u go in the store, they don't set the phone on ur account cause its a n900
Apr 10 13:56:32 <ech0Asus> they leave it blank
Apr 10 13:56:41 <ech0Asus> u set the phone u have when u leave the store on there site
Apr 10 13:56:47 <ech0Asus> set it as older nokia
Apr 10 13:56:59 <ech0Asus> and u can then get 10$ internet a month lol
Apr 10 13:57:56 <ech0Asus> no bullshit i had the other unlimited talk text web.. same speeds
Apr 10 13:58:02 <embedded> hi all
Apr 10 13:58:17 <ech0Asus> i still got my old sim card too and the 3g still works for some reason though the phones service has been cut off
Apr 10 13:58:58 <ech0Asus> can use skype with it lol
Apr 10 13:59:02 <luke-jr> ech0Asus: but in selecting an old phone, are you saying "I will use this phone" or "I want service for this phone"?
Apr 10 13:59:36 <ech0Asus> no your not saying u will use that phone or u want service for that phone, just that you have it and want to adjust features of your service based on having that phone.
Apr 10 13:59:52 <jacekowski> ech0Asus: t-mobile has unlimited internet with monthly contract for £10
Apr 10 14:00:08 <jacekowski> and o2 has same thing as well
Apr 10 14:00:11 <luke-jr> jacekowski: UK != US
Apr 10 14:00:20 <ech0Asus> this is with no contract tho
Apr 10 14:00:28 <luke-jr> ech0Asus: so "I have this phone"?
Apr 10 14:00:29 <jacekowski> i'm just making him jealous
Apr 10 14:00:36 <jacekowski> that we have better offers here
Apr 10 14:00:47 <ech0Asus> luke i'll pull what phone u should tell them u have
Apr 10 14:01:00 <luke-jr> ech0Asus: I'm not willing to lie.
Apr 10 14:01:13 <ech0Asus> k then don't lie lol
Apr 10 14:01:21 <ech0Asus> i didn't lie i just clicked the wrong phone opps
Apr 10 14:01:24 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: ask SpeedEvil
Apr 10 14:01:48 <ech0Asus> i only saw nokia i dunno what all those numbers were
Apr 10 14:01:50 <ech0Asus> rofl
Apr 10 14:02:04 <trumee> jacekowski: are O2 and t-mobile allow sip calls on their network?
Apr 10 14:02:11 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: aah sorry, thought you say you're UK
Apr 10 14:02:28 <jacekowski> trumee: depends according to t&c no
Apr 10 14:02:32 <jacekowski> trumee: but it's working
Apr 10 14:02:46 <ech0Asus> if u go into the store they'll tell u, u have a smart phone and it's 25 or 30 a month for unlimited internet for ur phone...
Apr 10 14:03:14 <trumee> jacekowski: Three are better in that respect. The encourage voip use.
Apr 10 14:03:51 <jacekowski> but the thing is that it doesn't matter for them
Apr 10 14:04:00 <trumee> jacekowski: although they dont like tethering, but it works nonetheless.
Apr 10 14:04:07 <luke-jr> ech0Asus: there's no $29/mo plan
Apr 10 14:04:13 <jacekowski> because that £10 contract comes with 100 minutes
Apr 10 14:04:19 <jacekowski> and £25 with 600
Apr 10 14:04:21 <ech0Asus> luke its the even more plus 500 minutes plan its 29 a month
Apr 10 14:04:48 <jacekowski> which is why nobody is using voip
Apr 10 14:04:53 <jacekowski> because it's easier to just call
Apr 10 14:04:56 <fuz_> frals: are you here? i've got the same problem you had yesterday with 0 length list with libosso-abook
Apr 10 14:05:11 <frals> yeah im here
Apr 10 14:05:15 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: O2-Germany works with SIP
Apr 10 14:05:15 <luke-jr> ech0Asus: Even More 500 Talk is $39.99/mo
Apr 10 14:05:24 <frals> you need to wait for the aggregator to be ready before it can return anything
Apr 10 14:05:42 <ech0Asus> not unless they uped it over night
Apr 10 14:05:45 <trumee> is it possible to do PageUp and get command history in N900 shell? I miss that feature in the shell.
Apr 10 14:05:48 <jacekowski> trumee: why would use use voip on mible?
Apr 10 14:05:54 <frals> no idea how to do that properly thou, but i saw some wait_for_aggregator() or something in the api refs
Apr 10 14:06:08 <jacekowski> mobile*
Apr 10 14:06:32 <ShadowJK> you can do arrow-up for command history
Apr 10 14:06:37 <ech0Asus> is here.. http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/cell-phone-plans-detail.aspx?tp=tb1&rateplan=Even-More-Plus-500-Talk
Apr 10 14:06:37 <trumee> jacekowski: why not? to save on international calls. i only use mobile for national calls. For overseas i always use sip.
Apr 10 14:06:59 <jacekowski> trumee: international calls are cheap as well
Apr 10 14:07:00 <fuz_> frals: and did you make it work ?
Apr 10 14:07:02 <trumee> jacekowski: my friends have sip devices overseas so the calls are free!!
Apr 10 14:07:04 <ech0Asus> luke, read this http://www.amazon.com/N900-Unlimited-your-TMOBILE-account/forum/Fx142MGT58JRKRB/Tx9NUZNDZETK5N/1?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B002OB49SW
Apr 10 14:07:04 <frals> fuz_: either way i redid my code so i didnt have to use the OssoABookAggregator; http://irc.frals.se/maemo/abook.c, which is what i was after, cant use the list_all_contacts thou
Apr 10 14:07:14 <jacekowski> trumee: i mean like 1p per minute
Apr 10 14:07:16 <trumee> jacekowski: free >>> cheap!
Apr 10 14:07:31 <jacekowski> trumee: but you have to pay monthly fee to voip provider
Apr 10 14:07:52 <DocScrutinizer> 5GB 3G plus ~90min worth credit for 'normal calls and SMS' @ 30EUR *payg* on O2-LOOP
Apr 10 14:08:02 <trumee> jacekowski:  nope, that is free as well if you dont have DID. and btw i run my own asterisk server :)
Apr 10 14:08:04 <fuz_> but you get Econtact and not OssoAbookContact
Apr 10 14:08:18 <jacekowski> trumee: so who give free international calls?
Apr 10 14:08:25 <frals> yeah, its good enough for me
Apr 10 14:08:40 <frals> as i just needed a working testcase to search by phonenumber
Apr 10 14:08:41 <trumee> jacekowski: no not  free pstn calls rather free sip calls.
Apr 10 14:08:43 <fuz_> (i'd like to play with master / roster contacts links)
Apr 10 14:09:18 <frals> i think what you need to do is use: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libosso-abook/libosso-abook-osso-abook-waitable.html
Apr 10 14:09:22 <jacekowski> trumee: i know
Apr 10 14:09:32 <jacekowski> trumee: i'm confused now
Apr 10 14:09:34 <frals> and then wait for the aggregator to be ready, and it "should" work i assume
Apr 10 14:09:52 <jacekowski> trumee: so you don't have free international pstn calls via sip?
Apr 10 14:09:58 <trumee> jacekowski: no i dont.
Apr 10 14:09:58 <fuz_> frals : ok thanks a lot
Apr 10 14:10:08 <frals> fuz_: np, hope you get it to work :)
Apr 10 14:10:13 <DocScrutinizer> SIP is 'free' if your peer is with same provider. N900 SIP client does not support direct-P2P-SIP :-S
Apr 10 14:10:13 <jacekowski> trumee: so why don't you just use jabber?
Apr 10 14:10:18 <fuz_> i'll tell you :)
Apr 10 14:10:51 <jacekowski> trumee: it's better protocol that doesn't have problems with tunneling and etc
Apr 10 14:11:01 <DocScrutinizer> well would be hard with 3G anyway, as usually you can't run services to the real internet
Apr 10 14:11:02 <trumee> jacekowski: the way i operate is mobile ->my asterisk box->remote sip device. That way i only pay for local mobile tarrif
Apr 10 14:11:03 <jacekowski> trumee: and supports im as well
Apr 10 14:11:22 <fuz_> i wish osso-abook had better samples & doc (i just want to get a list of contacts, that should be easy)
Apr 10 14:11:49 <jacekowski> trumee: remote sip device is where/
Apr 10 14:11:54 <jacekowski> trumee: and where are you?
Apr 10 14:12:33 <trumee> jacekowski:you need to do some reading :)
Apr 10 14:12:48 <jacekowski> no i'm just confused by your overcomplicated setup
Apr 10 14:12:55 <jacekowski> i've got 1p per minute calls abroad
Apr 10 14:13:04 <jacekowski> and free calls in UK
Apr 10 14:13:26 <trumee> jacekowski: if it works for you. great.
Apr 10 14:13:55 <DocScrutinizer> I got a landline (aka geographic) number with free inbound calls on my N810 for years now -> sipgate.de
Apr 10 14:14:32 <DocScrutinizer> not friggin own asterisk, no overcomplicated setup
Apr 10 14:14:42 <jacekowski> to be honest jabber with libjingle is much better protocol than any sip configuration
Apr 10 14:14:52 <luke-jr> meh
Apr 10 14:14:54 <luke-jr> IAX anyone?
Apr 10 14:14:56 <jacekowski> mostly because everybody has gmail account
Apr 10 14:15:09 <DocScrutinizer> IAX is a brainfuck
Apr 10 14:15:21 <trumee> jacekowski: yup, buy on the remote end you need a computer the. not everybody own a N900.
Apr 10 14:15:37 <jacekowski> trumee: or jabber phone
Apr 10 14:15:48 <luke-jr> Jabber != Jingle
Apr 10 14:15:53 <trumee> jacekowski: on the other hand PAP2 is only £20 (chinese make) and connects to a real phone.
Apr 10 14:15:58 <luke-jr> also, Google Talk is not compatible with the Jingle standard
Apr 10 14:16:04 <jacekowski> trumee: same for jungle
Apr 10 14:16:06 <jacekowski> jingle
Apr 10 14:16:07 <trumee> jacekowski: much easier to understand for normal people.
Apr 10 14:16:09 <Robot101> not that it matters, N900 implements both
Apr 10 14:16:13 <jacekowski> luke-jr: it is
Apr 10 14:16:15 <Robot101> (not using libjingle either, actually)
Apr 10 14:16:24 <luke-jr> jacekowski: since when?
Apr 10 14:16:25 <jacekowski> luke-jr: that standard was designed by google
Apr 10 14:16:28 <Robot101> jacekowski: he's right, it's not. but its OK, the N900 speaks like 5 variants of the protocol :P
Apr 10 14:16:29 <trumee> jacekowski: i have never come across a jabber phone. any links?
Apr 10 14:16:34 <Robot101> trumee: the N900! :)
Apr 10 14:16:36 <luke-jr> jacekowski: no, the pre-draft was designed by Google
Apr 10 14:17:50 <trumee> jacekowski: is there a cheap hardware device which speeks jabber?
Apr 10 14:18:10 <jacekowski> trumee: let me find it
Apr 10 14:19:21 <DocScrutinizer> hooray, 5 variants of a protocol. That's what I call a decent *standard* :-P
Apr 10 14:19:57 <jacekowski> can't find it now
Apr 10 14:20:22 <jacekowski> but there was one made by some french company
Apr 10 14:20:51 <Robot101> DocScrutinizer: google forked their own protocol, so there is libjingle 3 and libjingle 4 variants :)
Apr 10 14:21:01 <DocScrutinizer> bah
Apr 10 14:21:03 <Robot101> DocScrutinizer: actually google video is a fork of libjingle 3, which was pretty clever IMO
Apr 10 14:21:11 <DocScrutinizer> what counts are gateways
Apr 10 14:21:20 <trumee> jacekowski: ah! if you search for sip hardware devices, there will be shit loads!!!
Apr 10 14:21:25 <Robot101> DocScrutinizer: then we support standard jingle from 3 years ago, which is what the N800 and N810 use
Apr 10 14:21:39 <Robot101> DocScrutinizer: and the current jingle standard too
Apr 10 14:21:59 <DocScrutinizer> SIP<->POTS gw probably >>10^4 worldwide, Jabber<->POTS ????
Apr 10 14:22:27 <jacekowski> that's a marked that i'm going to fill
Apr 10 14:22:31 <jacekowski> market*
Apr 10 14:22:36 <DocScrutinizer> s/POTS/PSTN/g
Apr 10 14:22:37 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: SIP<->PSTN gw probably >>10^4 worldwide, Jabber<->PSTN ????
Apr 10 14:23:10 <jacekowski> simple SoC, wifi, ethernet
Apr 10 14:23:18 <jacekowski> i could possibly hack pap2t
Apr 10 14:23:38 <DocScrutinizer> where's the jabber provider offering a geographical landline number +49911xxxxxx for free?
Apr 10 14:23:49 <Fredrik1994> I've played a bit with Hedgewars and managed to get it install within Maemo. However, when I try to start a game, i get the "in game" message in the frontend, but hwengine never starts. Someone that could explain why?
Apr 10 14:24:35 <Fredrik1994> I get the same problem if I install hedgewars through Debian ARM - but not when I use Debian LXDE (but that makes hedgewars _really_ slow)
Apr 10 14:25:23 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: Oregon state offers free origination to any SIP address
Apr 10 14:25:24 <MohammadAG> make: *** No rule to make target `../gnome-doc-utils.make', needed by `Makefile.in'.  Stop. :/
Apr 10 14:25:42 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: exactly, whereas with sip there are companies which give you free incoming number.
Apr 10 14:25:43 <Fredrik1994> i start it through the terminal, it doesn't output any errors
Apr 10 14:25:57 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: see backscroll
Apr 10 14:26:00 <Fredrik1994> And it's not only the window that fails, no hwengine process is starting at all
Apr 10 14:26:31 <DocScrutinizer> SIP<->PSTN gw probably >>10^4 worldwide  --  I got a landline (aka geographic) number with free inbound calls on my N810 for years now -> sipgate.de
Apr 10 14:28:02 <DocScrutinizer> with in simple words means: *everybody* can call me on my "SIP" landline number
Apr 10 14:28:33 <jacekowski> i think i'm going to sell idea of jabber calls to some sip providers
Apr 10 14:28:34 <DocScrutinizer> what does it need for far end to call my "jabber" ""number(?!)""
Apr 10 14:29:18 <trumee> so how can get command history in the shell via Page Up?
Apr 10 14:29:21 <jacekowski> jabber client
Apr 10 14:29:36 <jacekowski> for example you go to gmail.com
Apr 10 14:29:47 <jacekowski> and click on somebody on left sid
Apr 10 14:29:48 <jacekowski> side*
Apr 10 14:29:56 <jacekowski> if he's connected you can click call
Apr 10 14:30:25 <DocScrutinizer> nota bene on sipgate.de the whole geographic number and all inbound minutes are *completely* free
Apr 10 14:30:49 <jacekowski> free?
Apr 10 14:30:54 <DocScrutinizer> free
Apr 10 14:31:01 <jacekowski> how
Apr 10 14:31:02 <DocScrutinizer> for free
Apr 10 14:31:14 <DocScrutinizer> like in free as in beer
Apr 10 14:31:31 <Fredrik1994> hm
Apr 10 14:31:33 <Fredrik1994> nvm
Apr 10 14:31:36 <jacekowski> umh
Apr 10 14:31:38 <jacekowski> german
Apr 10 14:31:43 <Fredrik1994> managed to get it output an error
Apr 10 14:31:48 <jacekowski> Fredrik1994: where have you heard about chrome
Apr 10 14:32:05 <Fredrik1994> hm?
Apr 10 14:32:10 <Fredrik1994> chrome @ n900 you mean? :p
Apr 10 14:32:17 <DocScrutinizer> of course SIP itself also is free, as in speech
Apr 10 14:32:48 <DocScrutinizer> and covered by a butload of RFCs
Apr 10 14:32:51 <luke-jr> http://www.ipkall.com/
Apr 10 14:33:12 <trumee> jacekowski: i have free UK dids from coms.com and orbtalk
Apr 10 14:33:20 <trumee> luke-jr: that is for US
Apr 10 14:33:41 <trumee> jacekowski: and incoming is free on both numbers.
Apr 10 14:33:42 <luke-jr> ofc
Apr 10 14:33:47 <jacekowski> Fredrik1994: yes
Apr 10 14:34:19 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: backscroll, is that a command?
Apr 10 14:35:06 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: for bash history search? nope, you need to keymap some key-shortcut
Apr 10 14:35:49 <DocScrutinizer> backscroll is the IRC text that 'scrolled out' of your IRC-client's window
Apr 10 14:36:00 <jacekowski> that's backlog
Apr 10 14:36:02 <Fredrik1994> hm, i don't seems to find the site
Apr 10 14:36:05 <Fredrik1994> but try google
Apr 10 14:36:05 <Fredrik1994> :p
Apr 10 14:36:33 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, it's scrollback in skype :)
Apr 10 14:36:40 <MohammadAG> xchat*
Apr 10 14:36:43 <MohammadAG> weird...
Apr 10 14:36:58 <MohammadAG> compiling file-roller for maemo
Apr 10 14:37:08 <MohammadAG> will get it packaged soon, hopefully
Apr 10 14:37:14 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: well i need a bash history search, not an irc backscroll/scrollback/backlog :)
Apr 10 14:37:22 <trumee> how do i map the key?
Apr 10 14:37:30 <DocScrutinizer> n 1: an accumulation of jobs not done or materials not processed that are yet to be dealt with (especially unfilled customer orders for products or services)
Apr 10 14:37:31 <DocScrutinizer> 2: large log at the back of a hearth fire [syn: log]
Apr 10 14:37:33 <DocScrutinizer> 3: something kept back or saved for future use or a special purpose [syn: reserve, stockpile] v : accumulate and create a backlog
Apr 10 14:37:41 <DocScrutinizer> ~dict backlog
Apr 10 14:37:45 <infobot> Dictionary 'backlog' (1 of 6): an accumulation of jobs not done or materials not processed that are yet to be dealt with (especially unfilled customer orders for products or services).
Apr 10 14:38:37 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: man bash-builtins
Apr 10 14:39:08 <trumee>  /bin/sh: man: not found
Apr 10 14:39:18 <trumee> no man on maemo??
Apr 10 14:40:43 <DocScrutinizer> nope :-((( friggin storage optimizers decided we don't need as it will eat some 10MB of our precious 32GB of storage >:-( pfffft
Apr 10 14:40:48 <ech0Asus> is there a way for the contacts list to be in portiat mode?
Apr 10 14:41:03 <jacekowski> ech0Asus: yes
Apr 10 14:41:09 <jacekowski> ech0Asus: close keyboard
Apr 10 14:41:29 <ech0Asus> stays in landscape when keyboard is closed
Apr 10 14:41:30 <DocScrutinizer> there's not even a mandb pkg >:-(
Apr 10 14:41:36 * DocScrutinizer fetches uzzi
Apr 10 14:41:52 <ech0Asus> only phone app uses portiat
Apr 10 14:41:53 <ech0Asus> :(
Apr 10 14:42:14 <ech0Asus> unless keyboard is open.. :(
Apr 10 14:42:18 <jacekowski> poki it with xrandr
Apr 10 14:42:47 <jacekowski> poke*
Apr 10 14:44:37 <DocScrutinizer> oh well. For somebody insane enough to use messybox for default shell on an interactive linux device meant to have xterm by default, it probably is heretic to add an optional mandb pkg
Apr 10 14:45:20 <DocScrutinizer> hooray for bash as a default on meego :-)
Apr 10 14:45:30 <Ken-Young> ech0Asus, Image viewer uses portrait too.
Apr 10 14:45:48 <ech0Asus> i just want it for my contacts lol :(
Apr 10 14:46:00 <ech0Asus> i can't see that many of them at once in landscape mode
Apr 10 14:46:04 <DocScrutinizer> and bash here implies all the decent coreutils etc
Apr 10 14:46:06 <ech0Asus> have to scroll a lot
Apr 10 14:46:19 <pupnik> im pondering how much of linux is a waste of time for mobile devices
Apr 10 14:46:25 <ech0Asus> would prolly be able to see them all in portait mode :(
Apr 10 14:46:30 <ech0Asus> without scrolling at all :(
Apr 10 14:46:49 <DocScrutinizer> probably even mandb :-))
Apr 10 14:47:08 <Ken-Young> pupnik, I'd say UUCP could probably go.
Apr 10 14:47:11 * DocScrutinizer starts to love meego
Apr 10 14:47:38 * luke-jr notes it is impossible to order from T-Mobile USA's site
Apr 10 14:47:59 <ech0Asus> use a proxy lol
Apr 10 14:48:31 <luke-jr> ...
Apr 10 14:49:00 <DocScrutinizer> darn, my last laptop had 128MBB of RAM, a 5GB HDD, and yet run a full KDE and you bet a full coreutils etc standard install
Apr 10 14:49:47 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: impossible :o
Apr 10 14:49:58 <DocScrutinizer> nope, plain normal
Apr 10 14:50:11 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: from a nokia point of view, the device isn't made for people who would need all that. they think of linux as just another platform to put _their_ stuff onto to serve people who are supposed to use _their_ stuff.
Apr 10 14:50:45 * Shapeshifter discovered fmt today. another useful coreutil.
Apr 10 14:50:48 <DocScrutinizer> just '''impossible''' for N900 with a CPU twice as fast, a RAM twice as large, and storage like 6 times what that Toughbook had
Apr 10 14:51:18 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: Windows NT ran on 16 MB RAM
Apr 10 14:51:44 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, and DOS3.2 on 320KB
Apr 10 14:52:26 <Dassu> well I tried gnome on my 600mhz 128MB laptop and yes it ran but slowly
Apr 10 14:53:13 <DocScrutinizer> and my desktop system 1996 had some 4MB of RAM (iirc) and a 486DX and yet it had a fullblown mandb
Apr 10 14:54:26 <DocScrutinizer> the HDD was like 50MB
Apr 10 14:54:30 <satmd> I had os/2 running on a 2mb ram, 20mb hdd system with a 286 ps/2
Apr 10 14:54:36 <satmd> booted in 45 mins
Apr 10 14:55:04 <DocScrutinizer> and had manpahes :-P
Apr 10 14:55:08 <DocScrutinizer> pages
Apr 10 14:55:23 <pupnik> http://www.bikudo.com/buy/details/602276/htc_desire_bravo_unlocked_usd222.html  would this be a candidate for meego?  (runs android)
Apr 10 14:55:33 <DocScrutinizer> dunno, had Oscar/2 such thing?
Apr 10 14:55:53 <satmd> dunno
Apr 10 14:56:00 <satmd> I didn't have the patience :p
Apr 10 14:56:10 <satmd> but I still have the floppies :p
Apr 10 14:56:43 <DocScrutinizer> I binned my OS/"-Warp box some 3 years ago
Apr 10 14:57:02 <satmd> :(
Apr 10 14:57:04 <DocScrutinizer> the sales-box with the books and floppies inside
Apr 10 14:57:16 <satmd> my dad won it somewhere
Apr 10 14:57:46 <satmd> never used it though
Apr 10 14:57:53 <DocScrutinizer> me neither
Apr 10 14:57:54 <Dassu> pupnik: afaik meego might require intel arch
Apr 10 14:58:03 <Stskeeps> eh
Apr 10 14:58:05 <Stskeeps> no
Apr 10 14:58:06 <satmd> no
Apr 10 14:58:08 <luke-jr> Dassu: what??
Apr 10 14:58:09 <DocScrutinizer> no
Apr 10 14:58:11 <crashanddie> Dassu: wtf?
Apr 10 14:58:15 <luke-jr> MeeGo already "supports" N900
Apr 10 14:58:15 <Stskeeps> armv5 port exists
Apr 10 14:58:21 <crashanddie> Dassu: don't say stupid shit like that, please
Apr 10 14:58:23 <Dassu> well
Apr 10 14:58:41 <crashanddie> well nothing, you're wrong.
Apr 10 14:59:03 <satmd> you should follow the past months of discussion about meego FIRST
Apr 10 14:59:03 <DocScrutinizer> actually meego is "FOSS", so first instance doesn't require any particular arch
Apr 10 14:59:15 <Dassu> just making my option based on a fact that nokia people have been talking with intel pedople regarding the meego
Apr 10 14:59:19 <satmd> because n900 will be one of the representative platforms for meego
Apr 10 14:59:55 <Stskeeps> Dassu: intel ad nokia is doing meego together, i hope they talked :P
Apr 10 15:00:02 <DocScrutinizer> Dassu: /join #meego
Apr 10 15:00:57 <crashanddie> Dassu: MeeGo is aimed at netbooks (so intel on that part would be right), but also in-car systems (highly unlikely to be intel), and mobile systems (like the N900), also very unlikely to be intel
Apr 10 15:01:03 <Dassu> well intel has intrests of bringing its cpus to mobile platfroms
Apr 10 15:01:04 <DocScrutinizer> and intel agreed to sell Nokia CPU'
Apr 10 15:01:09 <DocScrutinizer> ;-P
Apr 10 15:01:37 <crashanddie> Dassu: seriously, if you want to go and spread disinformed stupidies, /join #ubuntu
Apr 10 15:01:41 <DocScrutinizer> bin their 86
Apr 10 15:02:30 <ech0Asus> wonder who will head up the mobile systems section
Apr 10 15:02:31 <pupnik> how about a little 386 core off on the side somewhere.   for dosbox :)
Apr 10 15:03:00 <ech0Asus> like for cars..
Apr 10 15:03:51 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: ARM17 comes with 386 compatibility mode ;-P
Apr 10 15:05:40 <crashanddie> ~ping
Apr 10 15:05:41 <infobot> ~pong
Apr 10 15:07:14 <DocScrutinizer> ~zing
Apr 10 15:07:44 <DocScrutinizer> ~botsnack
Apr 10 15:07:45 <infobot> thanks, DocScrutinizer
Apr 10 15:26:13 <SpeedEvil> intel sold arm
Apr 10 15:26:19 <SpeedEvil> strongarm
Apr 10 15:26:42 <SpeedEvil> though they sold off that arm of intel
Apr 10 15:26:55 <SpeedEvil> So intel is now armless.
Apr 10 15:27:16 <DocScrutinizer> gnhnhnhn
Apr 10 15:29:34 <ech0Asus> erm, can't check voicemails on skype with n900
Apr 10 15:29:54 <pupnik> when does ti release devboards for next omap
Apr 10 15:30:06 <ech0Asus> the number you dial doesn't function well, can't listen to old messages
Apr 10 15:30:22 <ech0Asus> need a real skype app to manage voicemails
Apr 10 15:30:47 <ech0Asus> will try and get one from debian working later
Apr 10 15:30:57 <ech0Asus> gtg later guys
Apr 10 15:30:58 <DocScrutinizer> muhahaha
Apr 10 15:31:38 <lupine_85> Heee. N900+ Maemo + Wesnoth
Apr 10 15:31:40 <lupine_85> <3 linux
Apr 10 15:31:48 <DocScrutinizer> you're aware skype binary is closed-source, (c) skype/ebay, and even crypted?
Apr 10 15:31:58 <lupine_85> although - the keyboard doesn't work on it
Apr 10 15:40:39 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: what i am not happy about is that N900 doesnt show message waiting indicator for sip. The sofia-library supports it though
Apr 10 15:41:14 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, not surprised.
Apr 10 15:41:29 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: i was wondering if it was possible do check for MWI using some CLI command
Apr 10 15:41:55 <DocScrutinizer> basically it *should* be possible, yes
Apr 10 15:42:30 <trumee> How would that be possible, using mc-tool?
Apr 10 15:43:21 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, no idea. Just pondering if there's some obstacles in SIP protocol itself, which seems there aren't
Apr 10 15:43:49 <trumee> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3063
Apr 10 15:43:52 <povbot> Bug 3063: SIP Voice Mail message notification
Apr 10 15:44:35 <trumee> The bugs report suggests that N900 ignores MWI. So it is not just UI problem, is it?
Apr 10 15:46:05 <DocScrutinizer> no idea. IIRC MWI is a SIP-INFO inbound telegram. You might be able to intercept that e.g with tcpdump, then decode
Apr 10 15:47:45 <DocScrutinizer> dunno if sofia or whatever is just ignoring those INFO msgs, or just doesn't expose them to the API, or the UA doesn't query it
Apr 10 15:48:33 <trumee> tcpdump might be an ugly approach.
Apr 10 15:49:25 <satmd> skype on my n900 stopped working
Apr 10 15:49:35 <DocScrutinizer> good ;-P
Apr 10 15:49:35 <satmd> is there a known problem about this?
Apr 10 15:49:54 <DocScrutinizer> skype *is* the known problem
Apr 10 15:50:07 <satmd> yeah yeah, as much as I agree, that isn't helping
Apr 10 15:50:21 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, just kidding
Apr 10 15:50:25 <satmd> try to convince my coworkers to use voip :p
Apr 10 15:50:40 <luke-jr> Skype is voip
Apr 10 15:50:45 <luke-jr> just non-standard proprietary crap
Apr 10 15:51:00 <lcuk> but happens to be the standard people hold up
Apr 10 15:51:07 <luke-jr> it's not a standard at all
Apr 10 15:51:20 <lcuk> people rarely ask if you sip or if you voip
Apr 10 15:51:25 <lcuk> they ask if you have skype
Apr 10 15:51:53 <luke-jr> that's when you answer you have normal VoIP
Apr 10 15:51:55 <luke-jr> :)
Apr 10 15:51:56 <awilkins> Telepathy weakens that a bit, when Skype is just another connector
Apr 10 15:51:57 <lcuk> its the generic term - like all vacuum cleaners used to be hoovers
Apr 10 15:52:56 <lcuk> awilkins, it weakens nothing - if i said i have telepathy or any other voip stuff they would still ask whether they can call from skype
Apr 10 15:53:45 <DocScrutinizer> it's as wrong as PC==redmond-crap
Apr 10 15:53:57 <lcuk> not saying its right
Apr 10 15:54:01 <lcuk> its just whats asked out there
Apr 10 15:54:45 <DocScrutinizer> people asking me 'what, you can't use this program? you got no PC?' WTF!
Apr 10 15:54:57 <satmd> for me, voip == sip, skype==skype
Apr 10 15:55:14 <DocScrutinizer> PC == linux :-D
Apr 10 15:56:09 <lcuk> how do you say voip
Apr 10 15:56:10 <DocScrutinizer> people also use 'Neon' if actually they mean CFL
Apr 10 15:56:44 <luke-jr> PC = Personal Computer
Apr 10 15:56:51 <awilkins> vow - 'ip
Apr 10 15:56:58 <luke-jr> any computer used by mainly a single person is a PC
Apr 10 15:57:20 <luke-jr> voi, p
Apr 10 15:57:22 * lcuk likes when people call the computer chassis the hard drive :)
Apr 10 15:57:25 <luke-jr> or "voice over I P"
Apr 10 15:57:27 <luke-jr> :p
Apr 10 15:57:34 <awilkins> So .. when your phone rings in Maemo, that's a Telepathy notifier program?
Apr 10 15:57:42 <tank-man> neon white lights? heh
Apr 10 15:58:29 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, at least in Germany all the regular folks call it "neon tubes"
Apr 10 15:59:17 <frals> lizardo: did you get my mail? ;)
Apr 10 15:59:27 <lizardo> frals: yes, working on it now :)
Apr 10 15:59:37 <MOUD> Hello
Apr 10 15:59:45 <frals> lizardo: oh, cool, cheers :)
Apr 10 15:59:46 <lizardo> frals: good to hear you found some C code :D
Apr 10 16:00:08 <frals> hehe, good old fashioned trial and error and i got it to work ;)
Apr 10 16:00:19 <lardman> afternoon all
Apr 10 16:00:22 <MOUD> Does anyone know how to install libhildon (latest version) ?
Apr 10 16:00:23 <lcuk> frals, and plenty of beer
Apr 10 16:00:30 <MOUD> hello lardman
Apr 10 16:00:35 <lardman> hi MOUD
Apr 10 16:00:36 <lcuk> yo lardman \o
Apr 10 16:00:39 <frals> lcuk: hehe, no beer involved yesterday, believe it or not ;)
Apr 10 16:00:43 <frals> o/ lardman
Apr 10 16:00:44 <lardman> hey lcuk, pass some beer over then!
Apr 10 16:00:52 <lardman> hey frals
Apr 10 16:00:58 <lizardo> frals: is it ok if I use the final ctypes sample code as one more example on the PyMaemo wiki pages ?
Apr 10 16:01:02 <lardman> hmm, beer, /me heads to the fridge
Apr 10 16:01:16 <frals> lizardo: ofc :)
Apr 10 16:01:23 <frals> more examples == better for everyone
Apr 10 16:01:33 <lcuk> lizardo, :D
Apr 10 16:01:34 <lcuk> +100
Apr 10 16:01:54 <lizardo> frals: btw one suggestion: some contacts may lack E_CONTACT_FULL_NAME (I got at least one on my own contact) , so you may use e.g. E_CONTACT_GIVEN_NAME as fall back
Apr 10 16:02:14 <GAN900> Jaffa, just for future reference, the logo page is linked from the trademark page and have svg, png, etc.
Apr 10 16:02:23 <frals> yeah it was just to see if it was writing anything - i plan to get the id or something similiar
Apr 10 16:02:27 <lizardo> In that case e_contact_get_const() returned NULL, so it is easy to check
Apr 10 16:02:36 <lizardo> frals: nice :)
Apr 10 16:02:53 <MOUD> how do i fix "Broken Packages" ?
Apr 10 16:03:00 <Jaffa> GAN900: I couldn't see it on the trademark page
Apr 10 16:03:21 <GAN900> Jaffa, oh, wonder if it actually is, then. . . .
Apr 10 16:03:33 <Jaffa> lizardo: frals: you don't need to, you can call get_display_name() and it'll handle the user's firstname, lastname preferences and use a nickname if they don't have anything IIRC
Apr 10 16:03:41 <frals> lizardo: afaik the python-evolution bindings can get a contact by uid, so E_CONTACT_UID should do the trick
Apr 10 16:04:01 <Jaffa> GAN900: http://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/trademarks/trademark_usage_guidelines/ links to http://www.maemo.org/intro/trademarks/logos/ which 404s
Apr 10 16:04:11 <GAN900> Oops. . . .
Apr 10 16:04:18 <frals> Jaffa: does it work when getting an EContact and not OssoABookContact?
Apr 10 16:04:49 <lizardo> Jaffa: good to know...
Apr 10 16:04:49 * lardman curses the Map app and wonders when the decent/better one that all the Symbianites now have will appear
Apr 10 16:05:06 <Jaffa> frals: Mostly Hermes deals with EContacts, so I guess "yes"
Apr 10 16:05:16 <Jaffa> frals: But it's been a while since I looked at that code
Apr 10 16:05:24 <fuz_> frals: i've tried your suggestion, osso_abook_waitable_run never returns
Apr 10 16:06:03 <lcuk> lardman did we ever spec out a mapping app
Apr 10 16:06:26 <lcuk> i know some are coming/here but it never hurts to get down out best case scenarios
Apr 10 16:06:47 <lardman> lcuk: probably not, but I can certainly list the crap parts of Ovi Maps if anyone wants to know, mainly the general slowness
Apr 10 16:07:15 <lcuk> +100
Apr 10 16:07:40 <frals> Jaffa: cool :)
Apr 10 16:07:52 <frals> fuz_: then i have no clue im afraid :<
Apr 10 16:08:21 <lardman> while I'm moaning (having actually been using my N900, rather than developing code for it for the past month or so), good lord 3G sucks battery power!
Apr 10 16:09:00 <frals> i must be lucky, i dont notice any significant battery drainage while on 3g
Apr 10 16:09:05 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: depends, but generally yes
Apr 10 16:09:16 <Jaffa> lardman: Indeed
Apr 10 16:09:17 <frals> or it could be because the 3g coverage is pretty decent in stockholm
Apr 10 16:09:30 <fuz_> frals: ok & thanks
Apr 10 16:10:27 <lardman> DocScrutinizer, Jaffa: 30min sat in the pub trying to look at Ovi Maps and my battery has gone from full to nearly dead
Apr 10 16:10:33 <MOUD> Any news about the PR 1.2 release?
Apr 10 16:11:30 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: that's extreme for sure. But it's a massive data traffic, which always tends to suck battery, even worse on 3G than on GPRS
Apr 10 16:13:29 <DocScrutinizer> MOUD: yes, the counter for people asking that just incremented by one
Apr 10 16:13:53 <MOUD> DocScrutinizer, lol
Apr 10 16:14:12 <MOUD> anyways... How can I fix the libhildon1 problem?
Apr 10 16:14:12 <pupnik> didnt bundyo do a gemrb build for n900?
Apr 10 16:14:20 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: yeah for sure, I had downloaded maps in advance, but tbh Ovi Maps is pretty appauling so I gave MM a go, which meant lots of traffic
Apr 10 16:15:30 <fuz_> frals: it works :-) (just did some stupid mistakes before)
Apr 10 16:15:40 <Jaffa> MOUD: Contribute thoughts and discussions on the mailing list and http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PR1.2_autobuilder
Apr 10 16:15:44 <frals> fuz_: great, got any sample code for reference? :)
Apr 10 16:16:40 <fuz_> where would i put it ?
Apr 10 16:17:16 <MOUD> Jaffa: Thanks, I'll take a look
Apr 10 16:18:21 <frals> fuz_: pastebin.com, or a wikipage on wiki.maemo.org :)
Apr 10 16:18:29 <javispedro> X-Fade: I see you got to script the generation of the .symbols files? :)
Apr 10 16:21:03 <lizardo> frals: SIGLUNCH... will be in half an hour... almost there :)
Apr 10 16:21:38 <frals> lizardo: awesome! :)
Apr 10 16:23:03 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: so - 2W for UMTS, 1..2W for the system (cpu, backlight, all) -> bat life <1h
Apr 10 16:24:06 <DocScrutinizer> actually UMTS might even cause a 6W input power drain
Apr 10 16:24:52 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: so note to self, try not to use 3G too much
Apr 10 16:25:02 <DocScrutinizer> 2W was a ballpark figure based on maximum allowable TX power. Efficiency of transmitter is <50% though
Apr 10 16:26:23 <t-tan> is it just me or is autobuilder broken again?
Apr 10 16:26:43 <DocScrutinizer> and aiui 3G is very bad in terms of overhead on TX for very short packages
Apr 10 16:26:47 <fuz_> frals: http://pastebin.com/BfvS2wC0
Apr 10 16:27:46 <frals> fuz_: ty :)
Apr 10 16:29:18 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: try to force it to 2G. On poor coverage areas for 3G, EDGE might be not that noticably slower but for sure is less power hungry
Apr 10 16:30:05 <lardman> I'll have to have a go with that next time I'm sat in that pub, good call
Apr 10 16:30:41 <fuz_> I added the 'osso_abook_waitable_is_ready' because i found this in modest source code
Apr 10 16:31:31 <rm_you|n900> anyone on here happen to be at TX Linuxfest or know anyone who is? :)
Apr 10 16:32:19 * DocScrutinizer wonders if you could have two virtual connections concurrently, one for 2G and one for 3G. Then idle on 3G and use 2G only, as long as you don't really need the 3G speed
Apr 10 16:34:43 <DocScrutinizer> but seems that won't work as location database server (or whatever that's called on cellphone domain) can't handle multiple pathes to one mobile equipment
Apr 10 16:35:33 <DocScrutinizer> so probably you're either logged in to 2G, or to 3G, but never on both concurrently
Apr 10 16:36:27 <rm_you|n900> is 2G less battery intensive?
Apr 10 16:36:52 <DocScrutinizer> and I'm quite sure 2G has no specifications on how to seamlessly roam/handover to a 3G cell
Apr 10 16:37:48 <DocScrutinizer> rm_you|n900: [2010-04-10 18:26:42] <DocScrutinizer> and aiui 3G is very bad in terms of overhead on TX for very short packages
Apr 10 16:38:04 <kevloral> Hello all
Apr 10 16:39:20 <SpeedEvil> rm_you: yes
Apr 10 16:40:02 <SpeedEvil> rm_you: in a good 3G/2G signal area - a 4s interval ping uses about as much power on 3g as continuous streaming does on 2g
Apr 10 16:40:19 * lardman goes to search the interweb for digital compasses with BT connectivity
Apr 10 16:41:22 <lardman> hmm, while I'm thinking about compasses, I see the OS data is now freely available
Apr 10 16:42:17 <DocScrutinizer> rm_you|n900: along the line: send 200bytes GPRS: 20ms TX@2W, then idle. 200bytes on UMTS: sync-50ms TX@2W, transfer data TX@2W-1ms, keep sync as there might be more to come - another 500ms TX@2W (ms values are arbitrary examples)
Apr 10 16:43:13 <SpeedEvil> lardman: yes - see topic on irc.oftc.net #osm
Apr 10 16:43:27 <SpeedEvil> for more detailed explanations
Apr 10 16:43:45 <lardman> SpeedEvil: cool, thanks
Apr 10 16:44:17 <nocturnal> when using a ported application that uses a non-standard gui on maemo, is there a universal way of right clicking?
Apr 10 16:44:25 <SpeedEvil> It would be lovely if the 2G/3G modem could be operated as an independant 2G and 3G device.
Apr 10 16:44:27 <SpeedEvil> nocturnal: no
Apr 10 16:44:38 <nocturnal> ok thanks
Apr 10 16:44:38 <SpeedEvil> nocturnal: well - pair a bt mouse, and ...
Apr 10 16:44:43 <nocturnal> yeah obviously
Apr 10 16:45:24 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: (independent 2g/3g) yeah, that'S been my idea from above
Apr 10 16:45:28 <SpeedEvil> oh
Apr 10 16:45:31 <SpeedEvil> missed that
Apr 10 16:45:41 <lardman> hmm, why are GPSes with electronic compasses so dear
Apr 10 16:45:59 <SpeedEvil> I was rather meaning seperate SIMs
Apr 10 16:46:00 <lardman> probably be cheaper to buy my wife a new phone and use hers as a glorified compass
Apr 10 16:46:13 <SpeedEvil> lardman: demand
Apr 10 16:46:23 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: [2010-04-10 18:32:18] * DocScrutinizer wonders if you could have two virtual connections ...
Apr 10 16:46:55 <lardman> SpeedEvil: yeah, lots in phones though (hint hint Nokia)
Apr 10 16:46:57 <lcuk> blardman, probably cheaper to hire someone to monitor you from a personal self launched observation platform and transmit your current direction back to them
Apr 10 16:47:01 <lcuk> -b
Apr 10 16:47:13 <lardman> lcuk: I want augmented reality
Apr 10 16:47:23 <lcuk> drink more beer
Apr 10 16:47:24 <konttori> DocScrutinizer: the reason 3g sucks so much power is that whenever you transmit, the antenna must be fully powered for the next 30s-60s because of how 3G is specified.
Apr 10 16:47:38 <lardman> hook into nethouse prices so I can walk around and see house prices where I'm looking ;)
Apr 10 16:47:45 <lcuk> konttori, mm? fully powered?
Apr 10 16:47:52 <lcuk> must send a signal out of it?
Apr 10 16:47:59 <lcuk> or just have the circuits listening for more
Apr 10 16:48:02 <DocScrutinizer> konttori: [2010-04-10 18:42:17] <DocScrutinizer> rm_you|n900: along the line: send 200bytes GPRS: 20ms TX@2W, then idle. 200bytes on UMTS: sync-50ms TX@2W, transfer data TX@2W-1ms, keep sync ...
Apr 10 16:48:25 <lardman> bbiam, wine run to shop
Apr 10 16:48:29 <SpeedEvil> konttori: it's not quite that bad.
Apr 10 16:48:33 <rm_you|n900> lol
Apr 10 16:48:50 <SpeedEvil> konttori: the power used goes down quite a bit at higher intervals
Apr 10 16:49:28 <konttori> sure, only the antenna must be powered, not everything. but still it's a hit. The time is also dependent on the network you are using.
Apr 10 16:49:47 <konttori> e.g. in elisa network in finland the time is 60s, while in sonera it's 30s.
Apr 10 16:50:28 <SpeedEvil> At 30s, the power usage of an 8000 byte ping is 1/2 that of the same ping at 1s
Apr 10 16:50:31 <slingr> wow sygic is pretty sweet
Apr 10 16:50:32 <SpeedEvil> (for me)
Apr 10 16:50:57 <SpeedEvil> Or rather the average power - not the power per ping
Apr 10 16:51:04 <SpeedEvil> energy per ping
Apr 10 16:51:07 <lcuk> are there any youtubes of sygic in action
Apr 10 16:51:14 <lcuk> ive heard but not got it myself yet
Apr 10 16:52:31 <konttori> lcuk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oX4HAA1CrM&feature=related
Apr 10 16:53:21 <DocScrutinizer> konttori: by the way, me as an EE really don't know how you can 'power the antenna' ;-) Probably I'm just pedantic
Apr 10 16:53:41 <lcuk> its prolly the RX circuits
Apr 10 16:53:54 <lcuk> because normally you can hear inteference on nearby radios etc when txing
Apr 10 16:54:08 <lcuk> thx konttori
Apr 10 16:55:15 <Shapeshifter> does anyone else have slight problems with mmpc on maemo 5? Apart from the fact that it's kinda ugly, it doesn't display my playlist (maybe because it's too large) and when launching it an error occurs and I have to hit reconnect for it to connect.
Apr 10 16:55:22 <ppriyank> hi, i was wondering if anyone can help me set up rdesktop to work with my windows 7 64-bit computer?
Apr 10 16:55:28 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: I really failed to get the usual welknown GSM interference, when using 3G. Probably that's because UMTS isn't based on a TDM timeslice scheme
Apr 10 16:55:29 <ppriyank> i downloaded it on my N900
Apr 10 16:55:32 <konttori> DocScrutinizer: It needs to keep some form of connection open to the base station. I don't remember the exact details.
Apr 10 16:55:42 <ppriyank> and on my computer its allowed to connect to remote desktop...
Apr 10 16:55:43 <Shapeshifter> a shorter playlist works
Apr 10 16:56:06 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, i usually hear some sort of warm fuzzies from here
Apr 10 16:56:07 <ppriyank> when i connect it via n900, it says the login password is invalid (but its the same password that i use to logon to my windows)
Apr 10 16:56:08 <ppriyank> ?
Apr 10 16:56:16 <Terje> DocScrutinizer, probably 3G in your area is using much higher frequency, too.
Apr 10 16:56:35 <DocScrutinizer> nah, 1800 vs 2100
Apr 10 16:56:56 <Terje> Ok
Apr 10 16:56:59 <DocScrutinizer> not that much of a difference
Apr 10 16:57:15 <ppriyank> anyone?
Apr 10 16:57:29 <ppriyank> i'll repeat it in one sentence so it'll be easier to read... :)
Apr 10 16:57:31 <ppriyank> hi, i was wondering if anyone can help me set up rdesktop to work with my windows 7 64-bit computer? i downloaded it on my N900 and on my computer its allowed to connect to remote desktop...when i connect it via n900, it says the login password is invalid (but its the same password that i use to logon to my windows)?
Apr 10 16:58:17 <DocScrutinizer> ppriyank: check user name
Apr 10 16:58:28 <ppriyank> it matches with my computer as well
Apr 10 16:58:43 <ppriyank> on my desktop, the username is "ppriyank" and same on my n900
Apr 10 16:59:52 <ppriyank> for domain, do i put in WORKGROUP, or leave it blank? (either way, it still says incorrect password)
Apr 10 17:00:39 <lcuk> ppriyank, how did you change username on your n900?
Apr 10 17:01:02 <ppriyank> when i click on the rdesktop, it asks me to put in the server ip (my computer's ip address)
Apr 10 17:01:25 <ppriyank> and then under that it asks for username and password (from what i understand, it has to be same as my computer's username and password) right?
Apr 10 17:01:35 <Terje> DocScrutinizer, it might be that the bursty nature of GSM causes an interference that is much more irritating and difficult to filter out than WCDMA which looks a lot more like noise.
Apr 10 17:01:55 <DocScrutinizer> Terje: exactly
Apr 10 17:02:10 <DocScrutinizer> Terje: that's what I meant to say
Apr 10 17:04:03 <ppriyank> the username is same as...control panel...user accounts...and the username that shows there right?
Apr 10 17:04:40 <satmd> ah, my skype worked again after a reboot. weird.
Apr 10 17:05:31 <Terje> DocScrutinizer, I remember something from my basic signalling processing and ended up in this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_response. Check especially the part where a pulse comprises equal portions of all possible existing frequencies.
Apr 10 17:06:03 <lcuk> ppriyank, i dont see a "control panel" on my n900
Apr 10 17:06:14 <DocScrutinizer> Terje: well, that's understood here. Thanks anyway
Apr 10 17:06:38 <ppriyank> i meant..control panel on my desktop...just tryin to make sure that the username i'm puttin matches with my computer's username
Apr 10 17:06:53 <lcuk> but you are connecting to the n900
Apr 10 17:06:58 <lcuk> what user name is configured there..
Apr 10 17:06:59 <Terje> DocScrutinizer, ok, I'll shut up now. :-)
Apr 10 17:07:05 <frals> lcuk: hes using remotedesktop, nothing to do with username on the device ;)
Apr 10 17:07:08 <ppriyank> on my desktop its ppriyank
Apr 10 17:07:19 <lardman> re
Apr 10 17:07:28 <frals> ppriyank: have you tested from another computer to make sure it the remote desktop server is working correctly?
Apr 10 17:07:33 <ppriyank> (username is for my home computer, and no n900) i don't hink i have a username for n900 (and i don't know if i need one)
Apr 10 17:07:35 <frals> because rdesktop on the n900 just works for me
Apr 10 17:07:42 <lcuk> ppriyank, ok, another thing to try
Apr 10 17:07:45 <ppriyank> i used to use VNC viewer before
Apr 10 17:07:47 <ppriyank> and that worked
Apr 10 17:07:56 <lcuk> on n900 (now i see problem) go ito settings/text input
Apr 10 17:08:06 <lcuk> untick auto capitalisation
Apr 10 17:08:08 <frals> i just enter my user/pass i login with on the workstation and it logs in fine
Apr 10 17:08:11 <ppriyank> but i moved, and i don't have access to the router, so i cannot forward the port
Apr 10 17:08:11 <lcuk> it might be capitalising your password
Apr 10 17:08:27 <ppriyank> my password is all numbers...
Apr 10 17:08:35 <ppriyank> and the auto caps is already unticked
Apr 10 17:08:51 <lcuk> are they lower case numbers?
Apr 10 17:08:53 <lcuk> :D
Apr 10 17:09:06 <ppriyank> lower case numbers?
Apr 10 17:09:08 <ppriyank> lol
Apr 10 17:09:21 <ppriyank> if u can go by step-by-step
Apr 10 17:09:26 <ppriyank> i dont' mind starting from scratch
Apr 10 17:09:49 <ppriyank> is there a way to clear all the saved data on the computer in regards to password and what not
Apr 10 17:09:54 <lcuk> well if you have your n900 actually connecting and brining up login dialog - it sounds almost working?
Apr 10 17:09:56 <ppriyank> so i can do the whole process from beginning
Apr 10 17:10:02 <frals> ppriyank: do you have access to a laptop or something you can try to connect to your workstation to see it actually works
Apr 10 17:10:08 <lcuk> but the main computer config is completely out of n900 turf
Apr 10 17:10:14 <ppriyank> i have a desktop
Apr 10 17:10:27 <ppriyank> and not really connected to anything (workstation or anything)
Apr 10 17:10:28 <frals> and rdesktop works from there?
Apr 10 17:10:37 <lcuk> then connect from there
Apr 10 17:10:41 <ppriyank> i used VNC viewer on my n900 before
Apr 10 17:10:51 <ppriyank> to see my desktop screen and control it view n900
Apr 10 17:10:56 <ppriyank> but not the other way around
Apr 10 17:11:06 <ppriyank> and i just downloaded rdesktop today,
Apr 10 17:11:10 <ppriyank> and it dont seem to work
Apr 10 17:11:22 <lcuk> well the n900 bit seems to?
Apr 10 17:11:29 <lcuk> but we arent windows admins
Apr 10 17:11:33 <lcuk> so cant configure that end
Apr 10 17:11:57 <frals> ppriyank: try connecting from another computer to your computer to verify your remote desktop host is setup correctly
Apr 10 17:12:03 <lcuk> confirm first with pc->pc remote desktop
Apr 10 17:12:07 <lcuk> make sure its working
Apr 10 17:12:09 <ppriyank> i don't have another computer
Apr 10 17:12:10 <ppriyank> :(
Apr 10 17:12:28 <lcuk> then reinstall vnc and go back to what you know
Apr 10 17:12:31 <aep> ppriyank: x11vnc + arbitrary vnc client. dont mess with that redesktop crap
Apr 10 17:12:49 <ppriyank> i'll try it with vcn
Apr 10 17:12:53 <ppriyank> and see if that works
Apr 10 17:12:56 <aep> or if you do, have a Windows Certified Douchebag around
Apr 10 17:13:00 <ppriyank> give me a min....
Apr 10 17:13:14 <lcuk> aep there are quite a few windows folks around here
Apr 10 17:13:26 <lcuk> but they hide it well :p
Apr 10 17:13:30 <ppriyank> lol
Apr 10 17:13:37 <aep> i bet they would tell you the same. rdp is crap
Apr 10 17:13:46 <lardman> hmm, I use it every day
Apr 10 17:13:47 <frals> rdesktop is fine
Apr 10 17:13:48 <ppriyank> btw, i just downloaded the chromium and it seems pretty fast
Apr 10 17:13:49 <lardman> works ok
Apr 10 17:13:50 <lcuk> rdp has benefits over vnc
Apr 10 17:13:52 <DocScrutinizer> windows folks? HERE??
Apr 10 17:13:53 <lcuk> its a proper user session
Apr 10 17:14:00 <frals> using it daily and it performs much better than vnc for me
Apr 10 17:14:00 <lcuk> vnc needs existing
Apr 10 17:14:05 <ppriyank> compared to the microB broweser...on if it was more touch friendly
Apr 10 17:14:07 <ppriyank> :)
Apr 10 17:14:08 <DocScrutinizer> ;-P
Apr 10 17:14:10 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: not by choice (the Windows, rather than the here bit ;))
Apr 10 17:14:11 <aep> lol
Apr 10 17:14:13 * ShadowJK has 3g on 900MHz and 2g on that band too, and hears no interference from 3g, only from 2g
Apr 10 17:14:40 <lcuk> ShadowJK, i can hear little kittens dying everytime i send a 3g packet
Apr 10 17:15:08 * frals grabs some more cookies and waits for lizardo to return
Apr 10 17:15:26 <javispedro> lcuk: protocol has little to with session :P (still, rdp is an order of magnitude more complex than vnc, thus each one has benefits vs cons as usual)
Apr 10 17:15:37 <ShadowJK> I was also under the impression that 3g TX has to remain active for several seconds since last transmit
Apr 10 17:15:42 <DocScrutinizer> 3G is WCDMA which basically means FM. 2G is TDMA which implies a 100% moulation rate AM @ ~200Hz
Apr 10 17:16:19 <DocScrutinizer> interference on FM is unlikely to be seen on cheap amps and similar equipment
Apr 10 17:16:39 <lcuk> ShadowJK, well thats what konttori said too - i think based on this "something" is left using power
Apr 10 17:17:25 <Terje> lcuk, you mean between packets?
Apr 10 17:17:44 <ShadowJK> I think on 3g several phones use the same channel simultaneously, and the receivers can distinguish them because everyone uses their own code.. and occasionally channel use is reconfigured so phones can drop out or join?
Apr 10 17:17:44 <konttori> Terje: yeah.
Apr 10 17:17:46 <lcuk> i dunno - DocScrutinizer is the EE
Apr 10 17:18:02 <ShadowJK> something vaguely like that?
Apr 10 17:18:05 <lcuk> keep the engine running
Apr 10 17:18:12 <lardman> speaking of FM, either my wife's car is less well isolated than mine, or the FM tx stuff has improved
Apr 10 17:18:13 <lcuk> if im not back in 5, send in the backup
Apr 10 17:18:31 <ppriyank> ok...so i just connected via VNC
Apr 10 17:18:38 <lcuk> lardman, furry dice amplify and focus signals
Apr 10 17:18:49 <ppriyank> and  it works (ultraVNC server on my desktop, and vnc viewer on n900)
Apr 10 17:18:57 <lardman> ah, is that what it is, I'll have to get some for my car too then :p
Apr 10 17:18:59 <ppriyank> but its VERY SLOW...that's y i wanted to try rdesktop
Apr 10 17:19:08 <ShadowJK> My E75 on Saunalahti/Elisa needs like 3 seconds for the first ping packet, after being idle for a long time (minutes)
Apr 10 17:19:17 <lcuk> ppriyank, thats because you need to optimize your connection
Apr 10 17:19:25 <ppriyank> how do i do that?
Apr 10 17:19:36 <lcuk> get better gfx card, lower desktop res (color or size) set vnc compression protocol differently etc
Apr 10 17:19:40 <Terje> lcuk, constantly or is it just the networking pinging the phone?
Apr 10 17:19:48 <lcuk> Terje, i dunno
Apr 10 17:19:58 <ShadowJK> and the ping interval affects the rtt alot
Apr 10 17:20:10 <lcuk> retweet time?
Apr 10 17:20:19 <ShadowJK> i guess with 1 sec interval it stays on hspa all the time
Apr 10 17:20:24 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: seen this lag on first packet frequently on different linux phones as well
Apr 10 17:20:47 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, yeah I mean it's probably how 3g works
Apr 10 17:20:47 <Terje> lcuk, it's the network that keeps the phone in a standby state.
Apr 10 17:20:55 <ppriyank> ok so...different settings on the ultraVNC server right???
Apr 10 17:21:12 <lcuk> ppriyank, experiment
Apr 10 17:21:12 <lardman> ~curse FF for having connection issues
Apr 10 17:21:13 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, FF for having connection issues !
Apr 10 17:21:14 <Terje> DocScrutinizer, yes, the phone probably has released the connection and needs to re-acquire.
Apr 10 17:21:23 <lardman> infobot: very apt
Apr 10 17:21:33 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: yep, it first has to crank up and sync an active (means TX) connection
Apr 10 17:22:02 <lizardo> frals: ok, just sent you the code :)
Apr 10 17:22:03 * lardman wonders if buying a lego mindstorms kit, to use the compass, would be a valid use of funds
Apr 10 17:22:26 <frals> lizardo: :DDD thanks!
Apr 10 17:22:48 <Terje> lardman, probably not.
Apr 10 17:22:53 <lcuk> lol lardman
Apr 10 17:22:58 <frals> wow, funky stuff, just emptied the battery on my 2nd n900 in 1hr
Apr 10 17:23:01 <lcuk> arduino would be more practical/cool
Apr 10 17:23:01 <frals> from full to empty
Apr 10 17:23:05 <frals> wonder what it was doing
Apr 10 17:23:08 <lcuk> and you get to use your soldering iron
Apr 10 17:23:12 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: then after actual data transfer it keeps that connection active for quite a while, as more might pend for transfer
Apr 10 17:23:14 <Stskeeps> torrenting?
Apr 10 17:23:17 <lardman> Terje: but it would be fun to play with too ;)
Apr 10 17:23:25 <lcuk> frals?
Apr 10 17:23:27 <lcuk> 1 hour
Apr 10 17:23:29 <frals> it was suppose to just have the reverse ssh tunnel up
Apr 10 17:23:29 <lcuk> thats a record?
Apr 10 17:23:55 <lcuk> i want a mechanism to lock the phone part of the n900
Apr 10 17:23:57 <Terje> lardman, yes, but that's a different thing. You shouldn't need a valid reason to buy toys.
Apr 10 17:23:58 <frals> lcuk: never seen it empty that fast when not using it
Apr 10 17:24:09 <lcuk> ive not seen it drain that fast when using it
Apr 10 17:24:11 <ShadowJK> frals: was it on charger with green light?
Apr 10 17:24:20 <lardman> Terje: true, though I do need to buy a house, so have to economise somewhere
Apr 10 17:24:27 <Terje> frals, it was probably hot, too.
Apr 10 17:24:29 <ShadowJK> because that's about the only way to be sure it was full :)
Apr 10 17:24:29 <frals> ShadowJK: nah, it had been for a good 12hrs or so before thou
Apr 10 17:24:36 <frals> Terje: yeah ;)
Apr 10 17:24:38 <lardman> also carting around the mindstorms brick isn't very portable
Apr 10 17:24:38 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: that's CDMA
Apr 10 17:24:43 <frals> it was doing something for sure, god knows what :p
Apr 10 17:24:53 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: wideband transmition
Apr 10 17:24:54 <ShadowJK> frals: right so it could have been 50% or something :)
Apr 10 17:24:56 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: that sucks a lot
Apr 10 17:25:03 <lcuk> lardman, but if your car breaks down, you can reassemble it into a ferarri and drive home
Apr 10 17:25:05 <frals> ShadowJK: ah, that explain it
Apr 10 17:25:15 <Terje> lardman, just get it. If it causes a grin, it's worth it.
Apr 10 17:25:30 <lcuk> jacob keeps grabbing n900 to play games and stuff
Apr 10 17:25:35 <lardman> true (not the Ferrari part tho unfortunately)
Apr 10 17:25:40 <lcuk> but he keeps picking up the phone and ringing people too
Apr 10 17:25:54 <lcuk> i want to enable a kiddy phone
Apr 10 17:26:00 <lizardo> frals: let me know if it works as expected for you :)
Apr 10 17:26:00 <Terje> lcuk, my smallest kid likes to toss phones into toilet.
Apr 10 17:26:15 <lcuk> so when its in use, n900 is normal but the calling ui is very simplified and only to preset contacts
Apr 10 17:26:20 <jacekowski> gsm is better than cdma because it guarantees minimum quality
Apr 10 17:26:34 <ppriyank> its still pretty LAGGY
Apr 10 17:26:39 <ppriyank> but i guess its better then nothing
Apr 10 17:26:39 <jacekowski> while you can easily overload cdma and get strange things to happen
Apr 10 17:26:45 <ppriyank> :) thank you for your help :D
Apr 10 17:26:57 <lcuk> ppriyank, whats your desktop resolution now?
Apr 10 17:27:00 <lcuk> and color depth
Apr 10 17:27:00 <ShadowJK> at full load 1 hour battery life doesn't sound implausible anyway
Apr 10 17:27:03 <jacekowski> os course some people might prefer to have barely working randomly droping service
Apr 10 17:27:09 <jacekowski> than not working service at all
Apr 10 17:27:11 <Terje> jacekowski, I guess theoretically, yes, but shoudn't CDMA protocols have mechanisms to battle that?
Apr 10 17:27:12 <frals> lizardo: going to test it in a minute :)
Apr 10 17:27:12 <jacekowski> in case of overload
Apr 10 17:27:12 <lcuk> because vnc suffers if you have 1900*1600 type screens
Apr 10 17:27:30 <jacekowski> Terje: sort of
Apr 10 17:27:34 <ppriyank> on my server, i selected "Poll Full Screen (ultra fast)
Apr 10 17:27:39 <jacekowski> Terje: days like new years eve or etc
Apr 10 17:27:57 <jacekowski> Terje: with gsm these "few" people that manage to make a call have normal quality
Apr 10 17:28:12 <jacekowski> Terje: with cdma nobody would be able to make call
Apr 10 17:28:20 <lcuk> ppriyank, keep playing
Apr 10 17:28:29 <lcuk> theres other settings - and you still havent mentioned the res
Apr 10 17:28:40 <ppriyank> there is no settings for resolution
Apr 10 17:28:40 <ppriyank> :(
Apr 10 17:28:47 <ppriyank> atleast i dont see it
Apr 10 17:28:49 <lcuk> :O omg
Apr 10 17:28:56 <lcuk> you have an analog desktop?
Apr 10 17:29:02 <lcuk> resolution independent!
Apr 10 17:29:08 <ppriyank> oh my desktop's resolution
Apr 10 17:29:09 <ppriyank> its...
Apr 10 17:29:10 <frals> lizardo: works perfectly! thank you! :))
Apr 10 17:29:24 <lizardo> Jaffa: BTW osso_abook_contact_get_display_name() didn't work well for that case I told you... it returned the string  "No name"  :)
Apr 10 17:29:26 <lcuk> frals which code is that
Apr 10 17:29:44 <ppriyank> 1400X something
Apr 10 17:29:44 <frals> lcuk: osso_abook.osso_abook_query_phone_number() in python ctypes
Apr 10 17:29:47 <DocScrutinizer> in case of 'overload' (crowded cell) UMTS switches to neighbour cell if there's any, even when that cell is weaker signal. GSM never does that
Apr 10 17:29:47 <lizardo> frals: nice :) I'll clean it up and put somewhere on the wiki
Apr 10 17:29:48 <ppriyank> idk the other number
Apr 10 17:29:57 <frals> lizardo: great! thanks again :D
Apr 10 17:30:14 <lcuk> ppriyank, your computer might be having trouble encoding the size of desktop then
Apr 10 17:30:25 <lcuk> its worth still changing settings to find something quick
Apr 10 17:30:26 <lizardo> frals: not that I didn't use python-evolution (preferred to use types for it too to reduce the dependencies) but it can be used with some minimal effort I think
Apr 10 17:30:26 <frals> evening saved, now i got something fun to do :D
Apr 10 17:30:32 <lizardo> not -> note
Apr 10 17:30:35 <lcuk> on my home network vnc is pretty efficient
Apr 10 17:30:35 <ppriyank> so change my computer's settings?
Apr 10 17:30:39 <lcuk> but i run a 16bit desktop
Apr 10 17:30:43 <ppriyank> like make the resolution smaller
Apr 10 17:30:59 <lcuk> anything to lower the work that both sides of vnc need to do
Apr 10 17:31:07 <lcuk> some vnc servers can even send pre-scaled data
Apr 10 17:31:35 <javispedro> aaaaargh
Apr 10 17:31:36 <frals> lizardo: aye, your solution is better as python-evolution isnt needed for this
Apr 10 17:31:43 <javispedro> debian-squeeze devkit doesn't come with dh_make
Apr 10 17:31:46 <DocScrutinizer> anyway...
Apr 10 17:32:19 * DocScrutinizer kicks DocScrutinizer (cure your IRC adiction, pal!)
Apr 10 17:32:31 <ppriyank> thank u, imll play with it and see what happens
Apr 10 17:32:37 <slingr> when i was younger i was on irc all the time
Apr 10 17:32:41 <slingr> now i hired a bnc
Apr 10 17:33:26 * DocScrutinizer waves
Apr 10 17:35:11 <rm_you|n900> i thought texrat was going to TX Linuxfest but i havent seen him :(
Apr 10 17:36:00 <lcuk> rm_you|n900, \o hes been to ninja training school
Apr 10 17:36:04 <lcuk> if you see him, its too late
Apr 10 17:36:13 <AakashPatel> ninja
Apr 10 17:36:27 <AakashPatel> Sup everyone
Apr 10 17:36:45 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i'm talking about overload of all cells in area
Apr 10 17:37:59 * ShadowJK thought one of the advantages of 3g was that it plugeed into existing 2g infrastructures
Apr 10 17:38:04 <lcuk> jacekowski, hows your server handling things?
Apr 10 17:38:18 <ShadowJK> atleast I have seamless 2g-4g
Apr 10 17:38:22 <ShadowJK> uh
Apr 10 17:38:36 <ShadowJK> 2g-3g roaming with my operator :)
Apr 10 17:38:53 <ShadowJK> the 3g just looks like a different CellID :D
Apr 10 17:39:09 <jacekowski> lcuk: easily
Apr 10 17:39:13 <Terje> ShadowJK, "thought"?
Apr 10 17:39:42 <jacekowski> lcuk: i'm just killing it with update-indexer for reposearchplugin from trac
Apr 10 17:39:53 <lcuk> lol
Apr 10 17:40:15 <pupnik> evenin lcuk
Apr 10 17:40:22 <pupnik> beautiful sunset here
Apr 10 17:40:40 <lcuk> seems nice the world over :)
Apr 10 17:40:46 <ShadowJK> terje: "thought" as in, docscrutinizer saying there's no standard way of hand-off between 2g and 3g puts doubts to that thought?
Apr 10 17:40:48 <lcuk> apart from poland :(
Apr 10 17:41:10 <Terje> ShadowJK, works fine, so why worry?
Apr 10 17:41:19 <lcuk> how are you pupnik
Apr 10 17:41:27 <ShadowJK> Yeah I know it works fine
Apr 10 17:41:36 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: there's no such thing like 3G neighbour cells and handover criteria C1/C2 in 2G, to roam/handover to 3G. As such things would break compatibility for 'old' 2G-only phones. AIUI
Apr 10 17:41:37 <ShadowJK> for me atleast
Apr 10 17:42:05 <slingr> TITTIES
Apr 10 17:42:10 <slingr> woops
Apr 10 17:42:36 <godrik> is there a channel related to maemo mapper or should I ask my question here ?
Apr 10 17:43:58 <pupnik> here
Apr 10 17:44:15 <godrik> is there any tool to download maps and POI in advance ?
Apr 10 17:44:25 <ShadowJK> Terje: ^^^
Apr 10 17:44:37 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: so all a modem firmware can do is to look for 3G cells, and prefer those over 2G and try to associate to the 3G whenever it detects one
Apr 10 17:44:42 <godrik> From what I got, they are downloaded automatically when your gps location is there
Apr 10 17:44:49 <Terje> ShadowJK, I see.
Apr 10 17:44:52 <godrik> but I often don't have internetconnexion where I go
Apr 10 17:45:11 <godrik> Is there any way to ask maps and POI depending on location ?
Apr 10 17:46:08 <slingr> godrik have your heard of sygic?
Apr 10 17:46:11 <ShadowJK> I vaguely remember reading on my operator's forum this russian guy in Helsinki complaining about 3g/2g handover, and having worked for an operator in russia, posted detailed suggestions for what might be wrong on the network side
Apr 10 17:46:19 <ShadowJK> I should try find that post again..
Apr 10 17:46:28 <pupnik> godrik i dunno
Apr 10 17:46:51 <godrik> slingr: no I didnot, I am going to google that
Apr 10 17:47:00 <jacekowski> and i'm compiling chrome at the same time
Apr 10 17:47:04 <jacekowski>  19:47:03 up 33 days,  3:39,  5 users,  load average: 3.73, 3.62, 3.39
Apr 10 17:47:12 <jacekowski> i had over year uptime month ago
Apr 10 17:47:21 <jacekowski> but shit happened
Apr 10 17:48:03 <nidO> shit has a way of doing that
Apr 10 17:49:06 <jacekowski> well shit was that OOM killer kicked in
Apr 10 17:49:10 <jacekowski> and killed sshd
Apr 10 17:49:30 <godrik> jacekowski: that's bad !
Apr 10 17:49:34 <jacekowski> i mean
Apr 10 17:49:40 <jacekowski> there was huge 700M java process
Apr 10 17:49:46 <jacekowski> and it had to pick sshd
Apr 10 17:49:49 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer: http://palsta.saunalahti.fi/index.php/topic,12599.0.html
Apr 10 17:51:01 <RST38h> <YAWN>
Apr 10 17:51:09 * slingr slaps RST38h around a bit with a large trout
Apr 10 17:51:12 <slingr> no yawning allowed
Apr 10 17:56:45 <ebzzry> Hi! Does anybody here knows to what file maepad, by default, writes to?
Apr 10 18:01:40 * pupnik ponders satellite setup
Apr 10 18:03:58 <JZA> hi how can I create a new playlist on the N900 default player
Apr 10 18:04:05 <slingr> you can't
Apr 10 18:04:08 <slingr> its impossible
Apr 10 18:04:11 <JZA> I know there is a "add to current playlist" but what happens if I dont have a current playlist
Apr 10 18:04:27 <lizardo> frals: wiki page done : http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Accessing_APIs_without_Python_bindings/More_examples (feel free to add other interesting tricky ctypes usage examples there)
Apr 10 18:05:05 <frals> :)
Apr 10 18:05:56 <JZA> slingr: can I just 'touch' an m3u file, play it and add to current playlist to it?
Apr 10 18:06:20 <slingr> hehe i don't know
Apr 10 18:06:30 <slingr> i just got my device a couple days ago
Apr 10 18:17:12 <SmilybOrg> look at me, now look away, now look at me again, your n900 is now wireless headphones
Apr 10 18:20:25 <JZA> slingr: btw I made it
Apr 10 18:26:02 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: hmm, yeah. That's about 3G->2G handover, which I'm not sure about if there's anything implemented in UMTS standards, and also you might imagine they augmented specs for 2G/3G modems to inherit association from UMTS when roaming to GSM. What I've been talking about though was 2G->3G handover which isn't implemeted in 2G OTA protocol afaik, as old 2G only phones might get confused on such extensions.
Apr 10 18:31:26 * corecode seriously frustrated with tmo
Apr 10 18:33:05 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: for GSM your modem creates a list of 6 next best signal neighbour BTS, and carrier configures his network by transmitting a C1/C2 handover criterion threshold that basically sets a dBm headroom a neighbour cell signal has to be better than the service BTS. Then your phone actively jumps to the neighbour cell (means it listens to that BTS' control channel) and if the BTS has a different LAC then your phone registers with the new cell
Apr 10 18:33:07 <DocScrutinizer> to update the location server record
Apr 10 18:33:57 <DocScrutinizer> for 2G->3G handover the list of neighbour cells and C1/C2 are missing, so no way to initiate a clean handover
Apr 10 18:34:06 <iPeter-> jacekowski: hi! i saw that you ported chromium for n900. thanks!
Apr 10 18:34:26 <iPeter-> now im interested where i find opensh
Apr 10 18:36:35 <iPeter-> anyone? this opensh should give root access on xterm or sumthing
Apr 10 18:39:39 <lcuk> iPeter-, maemo extras
Apr 10 18:39:42 <lcuk> and its openssh
Apr 10 18:39:52 <lcuk> you are mixing it up afaik with rootsh
Apr 10 18:40:09 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: it's basically just like dropping 2G and freshly associating to 3G, which is a process entirely under domain of modem's firmware and probably up to the modem manuf's idea on how to implement that (like poll for 3G periodically, or only when 2G connectivity is lost, or whatever)
Apr 10 18:42:47 <MohammadAG> anyone having issues with skype?
Apr 10 18:42:58 <DocScrutinizer> due to the very different nature of TDMA vs WCDMA it's also quite possible that your modem isn't able to poll for UMTS BTS at all, while it's actively using (=TX) GSM
Apr 10 18:44:19 <DocScrutinizer> which will create a 'can't "handover" 2G->3G during data traffic' issue
Apr 10 18:44:38 <Fredrik1994> [16:39:02] [trumee] /bin/sh: man: not found
Apr 10 18:44:44 <Fredrik1994> that's pretty annoying
Apr 10 18:45:08 <Fredrik1994> i start debian chroot when i want to use man, but i don't feel that i should be needed to do that
Apr 10 18:45:14 <ebzzry> Is there an app that would remember the last state of the wlan connection?
Apr 10 18:45:39 <ebzzry> I'd like to have wifi switcher remember its state across reboots.
Apr 10 18:45:45 <_llll_> Fredrik1994: man pages and other documentation take up a lot of room, so are deleted by docpurge
Apr 10 18:46:16 <Fredrik1994> k
Apr 10 18:46:32 <_llll_> you could make a package to reinstall them i guess
Apr 10 18:47:06 <LuciusMare> Hi, what are processes "/sbin/modest,dsme" for?
Apr 10 18:48:24 <nidO> modest is your mail client
Apr 10 18:48:34 <frals> ~curse maemo.org package promoter
Apr 10 18:48:35 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, maemo.org package promoter !
Apr 10 18:48:50 <Jaffa> lizardo: Doh
Apr 10 18:49:56 <iPeter-> lcuk: well on youtube description said opensh and with that you gain root access but anyway i got it with rootsh.
Apr 10 18:50:30 <_llll_> "opensh"? dont you mean openssh
Apr 10 18:52:01 <lcuk> iPeter-, both can give root access, one of them allows it remotely too!
Apr 10 18:54:39 <iPeter-> lcuk: okay. but on that site they said opensh. prolly spelled wrong.
Apr 10 18:54:46 <LuciusMare> nobody knows the processes?
Apr 10 18:56:10 <frals> "DSME is responsible of device state management , process lifeguard support, watch dogs and thermal management"
Apr 10 18:56:25 <LuciusMare> oh, thanks
Apr 10 18:56:25 <frals> second hit on google :P
Apr 10 18:56:54 <LuciusMare> hurm
Apr 10 18:57:18 <LuciusMare> what did you search for?
Apr 10 18:57:21 <frals> maemo dsme
Apr 10 18:57:36 <frals> :)
Apr 10 18:57:36 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Apr 10 18:57:53 * LuciusMare facepalms
Apr 10 18:58:31 <ech0Asus> is there a way to allow install of .deb files?
Apr 10 18:58:45 <ech0Asus> i'm tryin to put in the matrix thing but its not workin lol
Apr 10 18:58:54 <Appiah> dpkg -i nameofmy.deb
Apr 10 18:58:58 <LuciusMare> ech0Asus: dpkg -i
Apr 10 18:59:05 <Appiah> remember sudo / rootsh
Apr 10 18:59:12 <LuciusMare> sudo /?
Apr 10 18:59:16 <ech0Asus> aight yeah i'll just use terminal
Apr 10 18:59:30 <ech0Asus> but there is this thing bout matrix? does it work?
Apr 10 18:59:35 <ech0Asus> not workin for me
Apr 10 18:59:48 <ech0Asus> http://www.nokian900applications.com/how-to-install-debian-files-in-nokia-n900/
Apr 10 19:00:06 <ech0Asus> is that a joke?
Apr 10 19:00:15 <DocScrutinizer> matrix?
Apr 10 19:00:33 <LuciusMare> heh
Apr 10 19:00:36 <LuciusMare> no, it's not
Apr 10 19:00:40 <LuciusMare> DocScrutinizer: red pill mode
Apr 10 19:00:42 <DocScrutinizer> hope you're not planning to install a freakin screensaver on N900
Apr 10 19:00:51 <ech0Asus> no lol
Apr 10 19:00:59 <ech0Asus> wanted to try a skype .deb file
Apr 10 19:01:03 <LuciusMare> No, he means the red pill mode in HAM
Apr 10 19:01:07 <LuciusMare> wait, what?
Apr 10 19:01:16 <LuciusMare> Why would you need that?
Apr 10 19:01:23 <ech0Asus> to check voicemail
Apr 10 19:01:23 <DocScrutinizer> red pill mode for appman was killed in 1.1 iirc
Apr 10 19:01:28 <_llll_> isnt that redd thing obselete now?
Apr 10 19:01:36 <LuciusMare> too bad
Apr 10 19:01:37 <_llll_> just use rootsh and then apt-get works
Apr 10 19:01:56 <_llll_> err, "sudo gainroot" not rootsh
Apr 10 19:02:02 <DocScrutinizer> root
Apr 10 19:03:02 <ech0Asus> i dunno that matrix thing don't work for me, i'll just use terminal
Apr 10 19:03:27 <ech0Asus> was thinkin it was a joke for a minute though lol
Apr 10 19:03:44 <LuciusMare> ech0Asus: 21:01 < DocScrutinizer> red pill mode for appman was killed in 1.1 iirc
Apr 10 19:05:01 <Fredrik1994> hm, openGL should work fine in maemo i guess?
Apr 10 19:05:10 <MohammadAG> anyone using skype?
Apr 10 19:05:14 <ech0Asus> i am
Apr 10 19:05:31 <MohammadAG> ech0Asus, working?
Apr 10 19:05:35 <MohammadAG> (now that is)
Apr 10 19:05:42 <ech0Asus> yes it works but is limited on its features
Apr 10 19:05:55 <ghostcube_maemo> skype works but no file send possible
Apr 10 19:06:10 <MohammadAG> is it working now
Apr 10 19:06:11 <ech0Asus> the old skype app was better
Apr 10 19:06:12 <MohammadAG> I know it works
Apr 10 19:06:14 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-04-10 17:49:25] <satmd> skype on my n900 stopped working
Apr 10 19:06:32 <ghostcube_maemo> sure iam online right now
Apr 10 19:06:45 <MohammadAG> It just says Not signed in
Apr 10 19:06:47 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-04-10 19:04:40] <satmd> ah, my skype worked again after a reboot. weird.
Apr 10 19:06:51 <MohammadAG> and my PC can't sign in
Apr 10 19:06:59 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I tried all kinds of reboots :)
Apr 10 19:07:11 <ghostcube_maemo> iam signed in in 2 accounts on 2 devices
Apr 10 19:07:14 <ghostcube_maemo> works here
Apr 10 19:07:28 <frals> ~bash the living shit out of package promoter
Apr 10 19:07:29 * infobot beats the living shit out of package promoter with ksh
Apr 10 19:07:57 <ghostcube_maemo> but it need more functions :)
Apr 10 19:08:24 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: seen venomrush?
Apr 10 19:08:37 <MohammadAG> ~seen Venomrush
Apr 10 19:08:39 <infobot> venomrush <~opera@5ac78cbe.bb.sky.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 18h 48m 19s ago, saying: 'is extras repo down?'.
Apr 10 19:09:00 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Apr 10 19:09:04 <frals> anyone seen a package actually get imported to repos since yesterday?
Apr 10 19:09:15 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I'll PM him about it if you want
Apr 10 19:09:22 <MohammadAG> frals, nope
Apr 10 19:09:31 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: :-) k
Apr 10 19:10:27 <ghostcube_maemo> damn frozenbubble still not installable ;(
Apr 10 19:10:45 <MohammadAG> ghostcube_maemo, I fixed it, update the repos
Apr 10 19:11:01 <MohammadAG> ghostcube_maemo, which package is missing?
Apr 10 19:11:05 <joga> hmm...shortcutd suddenly stopped working, reinstalling/restarting does not help, weird :/
Apr 10 19:11:09 <ghostcube_maemo> momentg
Apr 10 19:11:20 <flux> joga, camera open?
Apr 10 19:11:26 <flux> (camera app open)
Apr 10 19:12:54 <ghostcube_maemo> MohammadAG: works after repo update thx for fixing
Apr 10 19:13:08 <MohammadAG> ghostcube_maemo, no problem :)
Apr 10 19:13:26 <ghostcube_maemo> :)
Apr 10 19:23:53 <MohammadAG> skype's working again, had to delete the account
Apr 10 19:35:50 <joga> flux, damn, that's right :D lol, thanks
Apr 10 19:37:39 <flux> joga, done it myself :)
Apr 10 19:42:55 <mas> l
Apr 10 20:01:23 <frals> hmm
Apr 10 20:01:51 <frals> this different targets in sdk is confusing when you forget to upgrade one of them :P
Apr 10 20:02:50 <lcuk> frals, i wouldnt know
Apr 10 20:02:56 <lcuk> only ever use the armel one if i can help it
Apr 10 20:04:02 <frals> been using armel for building my packages but not noticed it was out of date until i tried to grep after some stuff that came with 1.2
Apr 10 20:04:51 <DocScrutinizer> ~ddos skype
Apr 10 20:04:52 * infobot about to DOS skype just for fun "Take that"
Apr 10 20:05:21 <zash> DocScrutinizer: +1
Apr 10 20:07:43 <javispedro> oh
Apr 10 20:07:54 * javispedro notices that openvg is now on the n900, don't remember since when
Apr 10 20:10:32 * w00t_ wanders past, drops a link to http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=604558&postcount=216 - and sneaks back into the shadows..
Apr 10 20:14:13 <lcuk> w00t_ you cannot do that
Apr 10 20:15:22 * frals slaps w00t_ out of the shadows
Apr 10 20:15:26 <w00t_> but I just did :(
Apr 10 20:20:05 <ds3> arrg... phone modules goes south under high loads :(
Apr 10 20:25:07 * SpeedEvil would love wifi 'arcs' in the top bar to work like cell signal indicators
Apr 10 20:26:51 <PhonicUK> hey all
Apr 10 20:29:23 <javispedro> SpeedEvil: they did in diablo
Apr 10 20:29:26 <PhonicUK> anyone know about the state of the chromium port?
Apr 10 20:29:34 <ds3> does the 900 have a real phone mod or is it run off the omap?
Apr 10 20:30:37 <PhonicUK> ds3, it has a proper GSM module.
Apr 10 20:30:53 <PhonicUK> its not a software implementation
Apr 10 20:38:25 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: yeah
Apr 10 20:39:10 <SpeedEvil> hax on the modem would be fun.
Apr 10 20:39:20 <DocScrutinizer> ds3: PhonicUK: GSM can't be run in software without any hw support
Apr 10 20:39:32 <SpeedEvil> for example - looking the aforementioned 3g nets up on the internet, ratehr than connecting.
Apr 10 20:39:57 <PhonicUK> thats pretty much what i said :p
Apr 10 20:40:04 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: heh, nice idea
Apr 10 20:40:22 <DocScrutinizer> PhonicUK: yup
Apr 10 20:40:24 <SpeedEvil> So you'd have a peer contributed list of stations.
Apr 10 20:41:12 <DocScrutinizer> nah, actually you could ask carriers to support that. Low effort high added value
Apr 10 20:41:12 <PhonicUK> has anyone tried Chromium for Maemo?
Apr 10 20:41:41 <MohammadAG_> PhonicUK, here :p
Apr 10 20:41:56 <PhonicUK> any good?
Apr 10 20:42:59 <MohammadAG_> yep
Apr 10 20:43:05 <MohammadAG_> well it's not optimized
Apr 10 20:43:08 <MohammadAG_> but it's good
Apr 10 20:43:13 <MohammadAG_> for what it is atm
Apr 10 20:43:31 <PhonicUK> cool
Apr 10 20:43:33 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: as carriers always are like virgins with their network details, you could even make an ofer they can't refuse, as their servers could check if the IMEI in a request is actually located in the cell it queries network details for
Apr 10 20:44:00 <PhonicUK> how does it compare to microb?
Apr 10 20:44:43 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG_: optimized or optified?
Apr 10 20:46:27 <javispedro> yet another abuse of the word "optimized"
Apr 10 20:46:47 <PhonicUK> but very appropriate
Apr 10 20:47:06 <DocScrutinizer> err what?
Apr 10 20:47:13 <DocScrutinizer> ~optification
Apr 10 20:47:15 <infobot> [optification] a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs
Apr 10 20:47:27 <DocScrutinizer> ~dict optimization
Apr 10 20:47:29 <infobot> Dictionary 'optimization' the act of rendering optimal; "the simultaneous optimization of growth and profitability"; "in an optimization problem we seek values of the variables that lead to an optimal value of the function that is to be optimized"; "to promote the optimization and diversification of agricultural products"
Apr 10 20:47:56 <SpeedEvil> ~dict optometrist
Apr 10 20:47:57 <infobot> Dictionary 'optometrist' (2): \Op*tom"e*trist\, n. One who is skilled in or practices optometry, especially one who examines the eyes for defects in vision and prescribes the proper lenses to correct any defects discovered. [Webster 1913 Suppl. +PJC] ;; a person skilled in testing for defects of vision in order to prescribe corrective glasses .
Apr 10 20:47:58 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: not about you, but every time a tmoer says something about "optimizated" or "optified" I have fear
Apr 10 20:48:08 <javispedro> *optimized
Apr 10 20:48:24 <ds3> i just want a modem that works
Apr 10 20:49:29 <PhonicUK> is the storage on the N900 a big 32GB thats partitioned, or are there muliple physical storage 'devices' like on the N97
Apr 10 20:49:46 <dmj726_n900> both.
Apr 10 20:50:01 <PhonicUK> nice -_-
Apr 10 20:50:11 <DocScrutinizer> the 32GB is one big eMMC
Apr 10 20:50:29 <DocScrutinizer> then you got 256MB OneNAND as well
Apr 10 20:50:50 <PhonicUK> OneNANA = / ?
Apr 10 20:50:57 <jacekowski> is it possible to get new gcc in scratchbox?
Apr 10 20:51:02 <jacekowski> PhonicUK: just type of flash
Apr 10 20:51:11 <jacekowski> PhonicUK: it's just faster than eMMC
Apr 10 20:51:16 <DocScrutinizer> PhonicUK: yep
Apr 10 20:51:35 <jacekowski> going back to my gcc
Apr 10 20:51:38 <PhonicUK> i meant is OneNAND used for rootfs
Apr 10 20:51:41 <lcuk> doooo deee dee dooooo
Apr 10 20:51:44 <javispedro> jacekowski: yes, but <jedi mind trick>you don't want a new gcc in scratchbox</jedi mind trick>
Apr 10 20:51:44 <PhonicUK> hence = /
Apr 10 20:51:45 <DocScrutinizer> eMMC is /home and MyDocs
Apr 10 20:51:51 <lcuk> ooooh waaa ooooh
Apr 10 20:51:53 <jacekowski> i would have to make it myself?
Apr 10 20:51:58 <jacekowski> javispedro: i need it
Apr 10 20:52:21 <jacekowski> mhm
Apr 10 20:52:26 <jacekowski> i'll leave it for now
Apr 10 20:52:27 * javispedro curses jacekowski, forcing him to use diablo's gcc
Apr 10 20:52:49 <jacekowski> 4.2.1
Apr 10 20:52:53 <jacekowski> that's like 3 years old
Apr 10 20:53:09 <javispedro> it's from 2007
Apr 10 20:53:18 <jacekowski> and it doesn't support instructions required by ffmpeg
Apr 10 20:53:19 <javispedro> diablo was 2005
Apr 10 20:53:48 <javispedro> what instructions?
Apr 10 20:53:49 <jacekowski> ( that's how i made my 1st build - by just removing it )
Apr 10 20:53:56 <jacekowski> vst1
Apr 10 20:54:02 <javispedro> that's not gcc, but binutils
Apr 10 20:54:05 <jacekowski> vmin, vld1
Apr 10 20:54:12 <jacekowski> well part of toolchain
Apr 10 20:54:16 <javispedro> or you mean intrinsics? (it does not support intrinsics at all)
Apr 10 20:54:52 <jacekowski> assembler that's with scratchbox doesn't support these instructions
Apr 10 20:55:18 <javispedro> it does
Apr 10 20:55:25 <javispedro> > as -mfpu=neon
Apr 10 20:55:25 <javispedro> vmin.u32 d0, d0, d0
Apr 10 20:55:32 <javispedro> [a.out created]
Apr 10 20:55:55 * MohammadAG_ misses the N97 form factor
Apr 10 20:56:46 <jacekowski> vfp
Apr 10 20:56:55 * DocScrutinizer misses maemo and N900
Apr 10 20:56:58 <jacekowski> blah
Apr 10 20:57:03 <jacekowski> vdup
Apr 10 20:57:06 <jacekowski> ldr
Apr 10 20:57:09 <jacekowski> or nvm
Apr 10 20:57:40 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, you kill it?
Apr 10 20:57:52 <DocScrutinizer> it kills me :-P
Apr 10 20:58:11 <DocScrutinizer> yeah :-S
Apr 10 20:58:25 * MohammadAG_ thought you disassembled it
Apr 10 20:58:26 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: didn't survive reassembly?
Apr 10 20:58:40 <lcuk> no disassemble number five
Apr 10 20:58:58 <DocScrutinizer> hugest embarrassment in 40 years of EE practice
Apr 10 20:58:58 <javispedro> jacekowski: yes, the default is mfpu=vfp, as per gcc.specs.
Apr 10 20:59:15 <PhonicUK> i still use my n97
Apr 10 20:59:22 <PhonicUK> purely for spotify
Apr 10 21:00:48 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: what have you done to it?
Apr 10 21:01:34 <DocScrutinizer> nothing, I promise, I swear
Apr 10 21:01:41 <frals> :D
Apr 10 21:01:51 <jacekowski> do you think anybody is going to belive in that
Apr 10 21:03:26 <DocScrutinizer> some of the guys that *know* me actually believe it. They'd never believe I did something wrong on such a simple task like disassembling a phone into 15 parts and then reassemble it
Apr 10 21:03:52 <MohammadAG_> what exactly happened to it then?
Apr 10 21:04:18 <jacekowski> javispedro:
Apr 10 21:04:18 <jacekowski> third_party/ffmpeg/source/patched-ffmpeg-mt/libavcodec/arm/dsputil_neon.S:255: Error: bad instruction `vld1.64 {d0,d1},[r1],r2'
Apr 10 21:04:22 <MohammadAG_> a disassemble/reassemble should be easy :P
Apr 10 21:04:43 <DocScrutinizer> that's a very good question, as everything is working just fine, except LCD *AND* backlight *AND* AV-video
Apr 10 21:04:50 * MohammadAG_ remembers when disassembled his PS3, didn't fix it but it was broken from the start
Apr 10 21:05:11 <javispedro> jacekowski: my as supports that and assembles that opcode to f4210ac2.
Apr 10 21:05:17 <javispedro> jacekowski: time to check for sdk upgrades? :P
Apr 10 21:05:29 <jacekowski> latest one
Apr 10 21:05:34 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, ctrl shift x, install x11vnc, see if it works :p
Apr 10 21:05:50 <javispedro> jacekowski: are you invoking the arm toolchain as, and properly passing mfpu=neon ?
Apr 10 21:06:19 <jacekowski> mhm
Apr 10 21:06:32 <jacekowski> nvm
Apr 10 21:06:41 <jacekowski> it's again scratchbox problem
Apr 10 21:06:41 <ShadowJK> jacekowski, you must pass -mcpu=cortex-a8 to the assembler too
Apr 10 21:06:45 <ShadowJK> jacekowski, ASFLAGS probably
Apr 10 21:06:46 <DocScrutinizer> from all I understand that could only be caused by either break in SoC DSP/FB, or a partial break in main FPC and system switchin off LCD backlight and AV when detecting problems on talking to LCD
Apr 10 21:07:01 <javispedro> ShadowJK: actually, -mcpu=cortex-a8 is in gcc.specs, as is -mfpu=vfp
Apr 10 21:07:16 <ShadowJK> javispedro, don't you want -mfpu=neon? :)
Apr 10 21:07:19 <javispedro> ShadowJK: ep, discard that (gcc). but as doesn't need -mcpu
Apr 10 21:07:24 <ShadowJK> It does.
Apr 10 21:07:27 <ShadowJK> Atleast on arm.
Apr 10 21:07:32 <javispedro> no, just -mfpu=neon
Apr 10 21:07:37 <javispedro> I just tested it a few lines above :)
Apr 10 21:08:13 <ShadowJK> The current SDK compiles ffmpeg fine with the correct parameters anyway, so if it's not working you're doing it wrong :D
Apr 10 21:31:42 <aol> anyone got fix for this issue? Nokia-N900-51-1:~# apt-get update
Apr 10 21:31:42 <aol> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (2 No such file or directory)
Apr 10 21:32:07 <aol> can install anything anymore :(
Apr 10 21:32:15 <aol> cant
Apr 10 21:33:50 <jacekowski> emm
Apr 10 21:33:52 <jacekowski> sudo?
Apr 10 21:34:57 <aol> I'm logged in as root
Apr 10 21:36:27 <aol> also application manager does not even try to do anything
Apr 10 21:38:39 <GAN900> iPad -- ghosting city.
Apr 10 21:39:00 <aol> ahem http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48361
Apr 10 21:39:18 <GAN900> and no free applications
Apr 10 21:39:34 <javispedro> GAN900: of course there will be free applications: ad based.
Apr 10 21:39:43 <javispedro> the future of computing!
Apr 10 21:39:46 <GAN900> lol
Apr 10 21:40:17 <frals> victory, got all contacthandling in fmms done using libosso-abook and ctypes \o/
Apr 10 21:40:23 <aol> success
Apr 10 21:40:27 <frals> lizardo == king of awesomeness
Apr 10 21:40:39 <jacekowski> i'm not using mms at all
Apr 10 21:40:53 <aol> Apple invented free apps with iPad
Apr 10 21:41:01 <aol> amazing & magical
Apr 10 21:41:32 <lizardo> frals: :)
Apr 10 21:45:31 <GAN900> Form factor is impossible to type on.
Apr 10 21:45:55 <frals> ~curse virtualbox
Apr 10 21:45:57 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, virtualbox !
Apr 10 21:46:09 <frals> wants me to upgrade and after upgrading it wont start my virtual machines anymore, great >_<
Apr 10 21:46:52 <javispedro> GAN900: lack of stylus seems ridiculous to me.
Apr 10 21:47:05 <javispedro> notepad form factor without stylus. madness!
Apr 10 21:47:20 <GAN900> javispedro, meh, more like too big to reach your thumbs anywhere.
Apr 10 21:48:31 <ShadowJK> also too big to hold while typing :)
Apr 10 21:49:53 <GAN900> yeah
Apr 10 21:50:00 <GAN900> Screen is very pretty
Apr 10 21:50:11 <GAN900> App Store is almost as slow as h-a-m
Apr 10 21:50:16 * javispedro ponders why we're discussing the tablet form factor like if it was new
Apr 10 21:50:17 <GAN900> Lots of ghosting, though.
Apr 10 21:50:47 <javispedro> s/tablet/big tablet
Apr 10 21:50:50 <GAN900> lol
Apr 10 21:51:42 <GAN900> Wee, laggy games
Apr 10 21:51:52 <javispedro> i've always seen tablet pcs and they're great for taking notes. they even do nice handwriting recognition.
Apr 10 21:51:55 <DocScrutinizer> ~rot13 ipad tablet
Apr 10 21:51:56 <infobot> vcnq gnoyrg
Apr 10 21:52:23 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: "rg", like your first name! are you related to steve jobs?
Apr 10 21:52:35 <javispedro> ( ;) )
Apr 10 21:54:55 <GAN900> lol, can't tap outside to dismiss
Apr 10 22:01:22 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: isn't spyPad c-ts?
Apr 10 22:01:48 <javispedro> yep
Apr 10 22:01:56 <DocScrutinizer> so stylus?!
Apr 10 22:02:00 <javispedro> sausage stylus
Apr 10 22:02:07 <DocScrutinizer> >YESS
Apr 10 22:02:10 <simula> heh
Apr 10 22:02:21 <javispedro> at least you'd be able to DOODLE notes!!
Apr 10 22:02:25 <DocScrutinizer> I prefer Wieners
Apr 10 22:02:40 * javispedro envisions himself taking notes at a lecture with a wiener
Apr 10 22:03:05 <DocScrutinizer> maybe Steve can build next one with mustard dispenser
Apr 10 22:04:19 <yigal> mostly listening to music what is a rough estimate on battery life on a full charge for the n900?
Apr 10 22:04:37 <DocScrutinizer> 12h
Apr 10 22:05:31 <yigal> thank you DocScrutinizer looking at this thread is really not so productive http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=604685
Apr 10 22:06:06 <yigal> when it comes to trying to discern if the stock battery set up will work for my needs
Apr 10 22:06:55 <yigal> so if I want to use it as an ebook reader + music player ~ 5 hours?
Apr 10 22:07:08 <DocScrutinizer> http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/
Apr 10 22:07:54 <DocScrutinizer> yigal: at least, yes.
Apr 10 22:08:13 <DocScrutinizer> depends on brightness setting of screen backlight
Apr 10 22:08:40 <yigal> DocScrutinizer interesting blog entry
Apr 10 22:09:55 <yigal> ffvorbis for ogg playback
Apr 10 22:10:26 <yigal> DocScrutinizer for a low setting is ~6 hours possible?
Apr 10 22:10:46 <yigal> brightness that is
Apr 10 22:10:47 <DocScrutinizer> I'd say easily
Apr 10 22:12:29 <GAN900> Giant freaking margins in all of the book readers.
Apr 10 22:14:11 <yigal> are there any alternative batteries that have a bit more juice than the stock, without turning the n900 into the size of a bread box?
Apr 10 22:14:27 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Apr 10 22:14:33 <ShadowJK> nope
Apr 10 22:14:53 <yigal> sorry, I know I'm covering talk.maemo.org threads but so much changes over so little time, that I may as well ask
Apr 10 22:15:12 <johnsu01> I bought one of those thinkgeek wrist batteries, but I haven't confirmed yet that it for sure works with the n900 (I had to buy a mini-micro adapter for it) -- but it should
Apr 10 22:17:21 <yigal> so an extra official nokia battery is ~$30
Apr 10 22:18:02 <yigal> hand crank :D
Apr 10 22:19:15 <nidO> you're much better just buying a powermonkey or similar
Apr 10 22:19:26 <yigal> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=595223 nidO right
Apr 10 22:19:31 <yigal> that makes sense
Apr 10 22:19:47 <Pengman`> yogen crank thing looks pretty good for cranking
Apr 10 22:20:06 <nidO> I have an external battery for mine with solar panels on it
Apr 10 22:20:31 <nidO> the battery itself isnt that amazing though, with hindsight i'd not bother with the solar capability and just get a new powermonkey with a better battery
Apr 10 22:20:39 <yigal> nidO: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4813 ?
Apr 10 22:20:56 <yigal> is that the one you have?
Apr 10 22:21:16 <nidO> no, mine has a considerably smaller solar array than that, it doesnt flip open
Apr 10 22:21:42 <nidO> at a guess the device is probably similar length-width (but not as thick) and just has the solar panel on the top surface
Apr 10 22:22:19 <yigal> ah, ya, that device looks nice but 2000mah is there something with a bit more juice?
Apr 10 22:22:36 <nidO> powermonkeys start at about 2000mAh for the base models
Apr 10 22:22:49 <nidO> and theyre a known reputable brand, and the batteries actually have the capacity quoted
Apr 10 22:23:06 <nidO> my solar charger quotes 2000mAh as well but in practicality it's more like 1500
Apr 10 22:23:25 <yigal> so roughly an extra n900 battery
Apr 10 22:23:56 <yigal> a little more
Apr 10 22:24:05 <nidO> effectively yeah, my charger ends up with a small amount of power left after fully charging the n900
Apr 10 22:24:17 <nidO> no idea whether the battery in that dealxtreme one will be any better though
Apr 10 22:24:31 <nidO> but I do know that powermonkey ones are the power they quote
Apr 10 22:25:19 <yigal> I'm looking at the powermonkey website
Apr 10 22:26:01 <nidO> the classic is 2200mah
Apr 10 22:26:42 <yigal> nidO: that's almost what I want just a little more :)
Apr 10 22:27:37 <DocScrutinizer> get a battery holder fpr 3 * A monocell, and solder a usb jack to it. N900 should charge from 4V5
Apr 10 22:28:06 <nidO> well, theres always the powergorilla - thats 21,000mah at 5v, but kinda bulky ;)
Apr 10 22:28:31 * ShadowJK has a Tekkeon MP1550
Apr 10 22:28:39 <ShadowJK> soldered D+ and D- together on it and it charges N900 fine
Apr 10 22:29:10 <DocScrutinizer> yep, charges at 500mA at least, probably at 1000mA
Apr 10 22:29:35 <ShadowJK> Depends mostly on the cells inside it :)
Apr 10 22:29:35 <yigal> Right I don't have a soldering kit, nor experience, what's the difficulty level to do that?
Apr 10 22:30:02 <nidO> its easy as pie, if you have a soldering kit and have any vague knowledge on how to solder
Apr 10 22:30:09 <ShadowJK> if I can do it, most people can do it
Apr 10 22:30:11 <nidO> if you dont, a powermonkey's the easy alternative
Apr 10 22:30:21 <yigal> nidO: oh, 1+ lbs. that's out of the question
Apr 10 22:30:33 <ShadowJK> actually, getting the thing opened up in the first place was hard
Apr 10 22:30:49 <ShadowJK> tekkeon might have proper microusb tips by now..
Apr 10 22:31:53 <yigal> I'm fine with tools, but as I said I don't have any soldering experience
Apr 10 22:32:20 <DocScrutinizer> get a CA-101, cut the A-plug, connect the VBUS to +4V5, the black to -, short the 2 remaining wires.
Apr 10 22:32:39 <DocScrutinizer> probably you find a way to get away without any soldering at all
Apr 10 22:33:11 <nidO> bare wire ends and some tape
Apr 10 22:33:14 <nidO> would probably manage it
Apr 10 22:33:16 * MohammadAG__ wonders if there is any hope for host-mode (not OTG)
Apr 10 22:33:26 <DocScrutinizer> there is
Apr 10 22:33:32 <nidO> probably not all that durable though
Apr 10 22:33:40 <yigal> well I'm glad there are options for extended cell life
Apr 10 22:34:22 <DocScrutinizer> see http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=600466&postcount=673 ff
Apr 10 22:34:49 <DocScrutinizer> and don't forget to 'Thank' :-P
Apr 10 22:35:25 <MohammadAG__> DocScrutinizer, I'd be lying to you if I said I understood something in there
Apr 10 22:35:40 <MohammadAG__> but thanked anyways :p
Apr 10 22:35:59 * MohammadAG__ just found out joerg_rw is DocScrutinizer 
Apr 10 22:37:05 <MohammadAG> huh
Apr 10 22:37:15 <DocScrutinizer> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=588950&postcount=667
Apr 10 22:37:25 * MohammadAG thinks he forgot XChat running on his PC
Apr 10 22:38:10 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: /cs ghost MohammadAG_
Apr 10 22:38:15 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, so, OTG is a possibility too?
Apr 10 22:38:20 <DocScrutinizer> or vice versa
Apr 10 22:38:31 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, XChat's running, it's autorejoin
Apr 10 22:38:36 <MohammadAG> it'll*
Apr 10 22:38:52 <DocScrutinizer> OTG is probably too complex to be done correctly with the existing hardware
Apr 10 22:38:54 <MohammadAG> isn't it nickserv (ns)?
Apr 10 22:39:09 <DocScrutinizer> yes, and yes
Apr 10 22:39:24 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, so from what I understand, OTG is host-mode + power
Apr 10 22:39:29 <MohammadAG> correct me if I'm wrong
Apr 10 22:39:48 <MohammadAG> host mode would allow data, but external power has to be supplied
Apr 10 22:39:49 <DocScrutinizer> nope, hostmode is with power
Apr 10 22:40:06 <MohammadAG> errordeveloper, so what's the difference?
Apr 10 22:40:19 <MohammadAG> :/
Apr 10 22:40:19 <MohammadAG> why do I keep tabbing
Apr 10 22:40:20 <DocScrutinizer> OTG is a complex negotiation between two gadgets about who's host and who's gadget
Apr 10 22:40:23 <MohammadAG> sorry errordeveloper
Apr 10 22:41:07 <MohammadAG> so basically, host mode would work without this negotiation (a forced mode switch from client to host)
Apr 10 22:41:08 <DocScrutinizer> mompls, get you a link
Apr 10 22:41:19 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Apr 10 22:42:20 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.usb.org/developers/onthego/  enjoy :-S
Apr 10 22:42:20 * MohammadAG reads http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode
Apr 10 22:43:41 <DocScrutinizer> OTG includes such funny things like pulsing VBUS power line and checking how large a capacitor is on the 'other end'
Apr 10 22:44:18 <DocScrutinizer> also different suspend-modes etc
Apr 10 22:44:47 * lcuk_unsec curses pyqt installation on windas7
Apr 10 22:44:48 <MohammadAG> which I'm assuming isn't needed for host mode
Apr 10 22:45:02 <DocScrutinizer> nobody really needs that, and it seems nobody completely and correctly supports OTG
Apr 10 22:46:13 <yigal> ShadowJK: $20 for a real power solution, Wow incredible Tekkeon MP1550, not solar but solar can't always be counted on.
Apr 10 22:46:54 <ShadowJK> and $15 for 4 nimh cells, and a charger..
Apr 10 22:46:57 <ShadowJK> but I already had that
Apr 10 22:47:08 <lcuk_unsec> i would like to see vodka powered computers
Apr 10 22:47:54 <ShadowJK> Solar has the disadvantage that you need to put it in tropical sun for a day :)
Apr 10 22:48:04 <ShadowJK> Before it charges your battery halfway
Apr 10 22:48:59 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, just curious, enabling host-mode (when that's figured out), doesn't require any hardware modifications right?
Apr 10 22:49:01 <yigal> ShadowJK: oh, I was mistaken so the batteries themselves can't be charged with the Tekkeon MP1550, it only can feed devices not receive?
Apr 10 22:49:31 <MohammadAG> (the cable male to female converter isn't what I'm referring to)
Apr 10 22:49:46 <ShadowJK> You put 4 nimh cells in it, then you can charge it with usb cable from your computer, or you can use it to charge other stuff
Apr 10 22:49:57 <ShadowJK> I forget it's actually able to charge the batteries inside too, I've never used it
Apr 10 22:49:58 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: right, no hw-mods needed.
Apr 10 22:50:32 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, thanks! :)
Apr 10 22:50:56 <frals> lcuk_unsec: what are you going to do with qt? :)
Apr 10 22:51:18 <yigal> ShadowJK: very cool, I might try for a slightly fancier deal with solar but this device looks great
Apr 10 22:51:59 <lcuk_unsec> frals just playing - but tracy has told me i cant change OS on the big pc
Apr 10 22:52:09 <frals> :D
Apr 10 22:52:20 <lcuk_unsec> so i need to make the stuff i must have in something i can use everywhere
Apr 10 22:52:22 <lcuk_unsec> :)
Apr 10 22:52:50 <frals> he, pyqt is pretty good then id assume :)
Apr 10 22:53:00 <lcuk_unsec> i pondered goin back and using vb - but i thought i might as well reevaluate python
Apr 10 22:53:10 <frals> vb *shrugs*
Apr 10 22:53:12 <lcuk_unsec> i did first liq* tests on n810 in pygtk
Apr 10 22:53:15 <lcuk_unsec> but performance was bad
Apr 10 22:53:23 <lcuk_unsec> its a bit better now - tho still not ideal
Apr 10 22:53:58 <frals> well something gotta give when you use a dynamic language like python
Apr 10 22:54:14 <lcuk> frals, nahh this is glue
Apr 10 22:54:28 <lcuk> the slowness is coming from QPainter.* calls
Apr 10 22:54:32 <ShadowJK> gtk is perfectly able to slow things down by itself without python ;)
Apr 10 22:54:39 <frals> ah, i see
Apr 10 22:54:40 <lcuk> i noticed it in native qt with colliding mice example
Apr 10 22:54:53 <lcuk> (base example in qt creator
Apr 10 22:55:02 <frals> winge some at w00t_, isnt he a qt dev? :D
Apr 10 22:55:05 <lcuk> i bumped the mouse count to something realistic - 50
Apr 10 22:55:09 <lcuk> :)
Apr 10 22:55:17 <lcuk> ive spoken
Apr 10 22:55:40 <lcuk> anyway i also put my liq* rosetta test in place
Apr 10 22:55:58 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liqmini.qt.Screenshot-20100409-133149.png
Apr 10 22:56:23 <lcuk> and it turned out - not ideal but close enough -  similar to the kind of result i had with original liqbase in the beginning
Apr 10 22:56:28 <lcuk> enough to squint and see it working
Apr 10 22:57:03 <frals> wow i can barely read that :P
Apr 10 22:57:11 <jacekowski> have anybody tried to install chrome from my packages
Apr 10 22:57:15 <lcuk> incidentally, the same block using liqsketches native: http://liqbase.net/liq.20100409_133726.liqtop1.scr.png
Apr 10 22:57:20 <jacekowski> and can check where does it install extensions?
Apr 10 22:57:30 <frals> lcuk: damn, quite a difference
Apr 10 22:57:35 <lcuk> yeah
Apr 10 22:57:45 <lcuk> its extremely simplistic
Apr 10 22:57:54 <lcuk> but i have a baseline to work from and towards
Apr 10 22:58:11 <lcuk> ill use proper qt where needed
Apr 10 22:58:23 <lcuk> but rendering speed needs increasing dramatically in places
Apr 10 22:58:57 <LiraNuna> ugh, I can't seem to ssh/ping my device from my computer
Apr 10 22:59:01 <LiraNuna> but I can do the reverse!
Apr 10 22:59:01 <lcuk> python loops holding variables shouldnt cause that much of a slowdown, theres no real processing being done actually in python so i excluded that fairly quick
Apr 10 22:59:18 <lcuk> LiraNuna, you poking the correct ip address..
Apr 10 22:59:23 <frals> LiraNuna: powersaving mode might be the culprit
Apr 10 22:59:25 <LiraNuna> yes
Apr 10 22:59:30 <frals> ie wlan powersavings
Apr 10 22:59:34 <LiraNuna> grr
Apr 10 22:59:39 <LiraNuna> it's connected to USB
Apr 10 22:59:41 <LiraNuna> i.e charging
Apr 10 22:59:52 <LiraNuna> can I make it NOT powersave when charging?
Apr 10 23:00:13 <frals> could probably write a script to disable powersaving when a charger is plugged in... but not default from the ui afaik
Apr 10 23:00:37 <LiraNuna> how can you disable powersaving?
Apr 10 23:01:06 <lcuk> LiraNuna, just test it by startign a download into tablet
Apr 10 23:01:13 <lcuk> see if that is the problem
Apr 10 23:01:38 <frals> settings -> internet connections -> connections -> (your wlan) -> edit -> next -> next -> next -> advanced -> other -> power saving
Apr 10 23:01:49 <jacekowski> poo
Apr 10 23:01:54 <jacekowski> no valgrind for maemo
Apr 10 23:02:06 <LiraNuna> jacekowski, yaah
Apr 10 23:02:12 <jacekowski> that sucks
Apr 10 23:02:33 <jacekowski> i'll have to port that as well
Apr 10 23:02:50 <lcuk_unsec> jacekowski: its no valgrind on arm
Apr 10 23:03:01 <LiraNuna> frals, let's see..
Apr 10 23:03:06 <lcuk_unsec> the mechanism to do the grinding is different afaik
Apr 10 23:03:09 <LiraNuna> frals, success!
Apr 10 23:03:48 <LiraNuna> well, not really
Apr 10 23:03:56 <LiraNuna> it's more responsive, but 'faster'
Apr 10 23:04:15 <jacekowski> there is oprofile
Apr 10 23:04:29 <jacekowski> but that will just do part of thing i need
Apr 10 23:05:00 <LiraNuna> jacekowski, you can always run it on x86/_64 :/
Apr 10 23:05:17 <jacekowski> not really
Apr 10 23:05:30 <jacekowski> i can do part of profiling
Apr 10 23:05:31 <LiraNuna> I know it's not optimal
Apr 10 23:05:41 <jacekowski> but cache profiling is not going to happen
Apr 10 23:05:56 <LiraNuna> ah, I see
Apr 10 23:06:11 <LiraNuna> frals, it made it better but still not really usable
Apr 10 23:06:11 <jacekowski> i could do it on x86
Apr 10 23:06:21 <b-man|laptop> hey, LiraNuna :)
Apr 10 23:06:25 <jacekowski> and make some assumptions
Apr 10 23:06:26 <LiraNuna> 'lo b-man|laptop
Apr 10 23:06:53 <lcuk> jacekowski, optimising it already?
Apr 10 23:06:57 <lcuk> how well does it run
Apr 10 23:07:58 <jacekowski> not very well yet
Apr 10 23:08:07 <jacekowski> but i want to have some preliminary figures
Apr 10 23:08:12 <lcuk> heh
Apr 10 23:08:16 <LiraNuna> frals, any more things I could try?
Apr 10 23:08:26 <frals> LiraNuna: dunno, sorry :<
Apr 10 23:08:29 <LiraNuna> all I want is to run binaries on my N900 natively
Apr 10 23:08:41 <lcuk> LiraNuna, ?
Apr 10 23:08:53 <lcuk> ur network is just being a cow?
Apr 10 23:08:55 <LiraNuna> lcuk, ssh/scp are so slow
Apr 10 23:09:02 <lcuk> how slow is slow
Apr 10 23:09:02 <jacekowski> normal hing
Apr 10 23:09:04 <jacekowski> thing*
Apr 10 23:09:06 <LiraNuna> and the phone is right next to the router
Apr 10 23:09:13 <jacekowski> LiraNuna: that's problem number 1
Apr 10 23:09:15 <LiraNuna> I turned off powersaving for my home network
Apr 10 23:09:17 <lcuk> within 3foot close?
Apr 10 23:09:18 <LiraNuna> jacekowski, so it's known?
Apr 10 23:09:23 <LiraNuna> lcuk, 1cm close
Apr 10 23:09:33 <jacekowski> LiraNuna: radio devices don't work very well when they are too close
Apr 10 23:09:47 <LiraNuna> jacekowski, I tried variable distances
Apr 10 23:09:51 <jacekowski> and other thing
Apr 10 23:09:56 <jacekowski> scp is slow by design
Apr 10 23:10:00 <LiraNuna> ...
Apr 10 23:10:06 <LiraNuna> I can't ssh as well
Apr 10 23:10:07 <lcuk> oh balls - that willirradiate the manifold and probably cause a burst in the em spectrum along the conduits
Apr 10 23:10:11 <jacekowski> unless you have fast cpu that can handle encryption
Apr 10 23:10:11 <LiraNuna> nor ping
Apr 10 23:10:14 <LiraNuna> sigh
Apr 10 23:10:25 <frals> lol lcuk
Apr 10 23:10:30 <lcuk> LiraNuna, how do other computers on network operate
Apr 10 23:10:33 <lcuk> are they quick?
Apr 10 23:10:35 <LiraNuna> yes
Apr 10 23:10:40 <LiraNuna> my laptop, my N810
Apr 10 23:10:43 <lcuk> what protocol are they using
Apr 10 23:10:45 <jacekowski> LiraNuna: and what sort of WAP have you've got?
Apr 10 23:10:47 <LiraNuna> wifi
Apr 10 23:10:49 <LiraNuna> b/g
Apr 10 23:10:52 <LiraNuna> WPA2
Apr 10 23:10:59 <jacekowski> i mean
Apr 10 23:11:08 <jacekowski> wireless access point/router/whatever
Apr 10 23:11:15 <LiraNuna> http://pastie.org/private/rvgncuqbxk0azftp9llicg
Apr 10 23:11:15 <jacekowski> make/model
Apr 10 23:11:22 <LiraNuna> Linksys WRT350N
Apr 10 23:11:27 <jacekowski> not going to happen
Apr 10 23:11:40 <jacekowski> restart your router
Apr 10 23:11:51 <LiraNuna> I got dd-wrt installed on it
Apr 10 23:11:53 <jacekowski> and notice that you will have communication working between devices
Apr 10 23:12:02 <jacekowski> and it will go away after some tim
Apr 10 23:12:03 <jacekowski> e
Apr 10 23:12:21 <jacekowski> there is something seriously fucked up with linksys by fiasco
Apr 10 23:12:45 <jacekowski> it's overpriced crap
Apr 10 23:12:45 <LiraNuna> you want to tell me I need to restart my router in order to develop?
Apr 10 23:12:53 <jacekowski> yep
Apr 10 23:12:56 <LiraNuna> ffs
Apr 10 23:13:05 <jacekowski> or get netgear
Apr 10 23:13:14 <jacekowski> or other brand
Apr 10 23:13:18 <lcuk> :) LiraNuna is your 810 around
Apr 10 23:13:22 <jacekowski> but i had no problems with netgear
Apr 10 23:13:24 <lcuk> can you connect happily to it right now
Apr 10 23:13:24 <LiraNuna> lcuk, yes, N810WE
Apr 10 23:13:33 <LiraNuna> let me check
Apr 10 23:13:42 <lcuk> ie - for at least some devices everything is rock solid
Apr 10 23:13:53 <lcuk> try rebooting it anyway ;)
Apr 10 23:14:14 <LiraNuna> I'm not rebooting my router with no reason
Apr 10 23:15:26 <nidO> didnt you just get a reason?
Apr 10 23:15:44 <lcuk> meh i would just try it anyway - you have poked at 900 - try poking the other end
Apr 10 23:16:05 <lcuk> or spend however many hours scratching head (you still might anyway)
Apr 10 23:16:52 <LiraNuna> N810WE is more or less the same
Apr 10 23:16:52 <LiraNuna> wtf
Apr 10 23:16:56 <LiraNuna> it worked fine yesterday
Apr 10 23:17:02 <LiraNuna> 87% packet loss,
Apr 10 23:17:09 <LiraNuna> ... brb
Apr 10 23:17:23 <lcuk> thats ok LiraNuna - sometimes *REBOOT ROUTER* shit happens
Apr 10 23:17:25 <nidO> i wasnt reading, whats his problem?
Apr 10 23:18:00 <lcuk> nidO, drastic underlying power fluctuations in his warp core matrix
Apr 10 23:18:06 <lcuk> errr network
Apr 10 23:18:15 <nidO> scotty clearly needs to go to 110%
Apr 10 23:18:35 <lcuk> dumping the core and bringing it back on line should resolve the issue
Apr 10 23:18:48 <lcuk> but he wont have porn for 4 minutes until it comes back up
Apr 10 23:18:54 <w00t_> WE CANNAE GO ANY FASTER CAPT'N
Apr 10 23:19:29 <lcuk> can you get us impulse engines mrscott?
Apr 10 23:19:30 <jacekowski> bring more porn
Apr 10 23:19:37 <b-man17> <-MemoServ-> hi there! It appears your bot TriviaBot is severely broken and keeps trying to join #freenode and then leaving.. bots are not allowed in #freenode so please fix this as soon as you can. Thanks!
Apr 10 23:19:40 <b-man17> ...how the hell is TriviaBot still alive!!?! - i deleted it from my computer months ago.. O_o
Apr 10 23:19:55 <lcuk> lol
Apr 10 23:20:02 <lcuk> b-man17 that rox
Apr 10 23:20:09 <jacekowski> b-man17: skynet
Apr 10 23:20:22 <b-man17> ThiviaBot has gained a mind of it's own! xD
Apr 10 23:21:05 <lcuk> (Q4) Which IRC Robot recently auquired sentience?
Apr 10 23:21:12 <lcuk> (a) trivia bot
Apr 10 23:21:17 <lcuk> (b) rm_you
Apr 10 23:21:22 <lcuk> (c) GAN900
Apr 10 23:21:30 <b-man17> i knew i should have not made it Antoninus lol
Apr 10 23:22:16 * b-man17 gears up for a rabid bot hunt
Apr 10 23:22:39 <lcuk> its ok b-man17 they will just block it by ip
Apr 10 23:22:48 <b-man17> well
Apr 10 23:22:51 <lcuk> and everything else from that ip ;)
Apr 10 23:22:59 <b-man17> i hope it's not using my ip xD
Apr 10 23:23:11 <lcuk> tick tock
Apr 10 23:23:45 <b-man17> tick tock?
Apr 10 23:23:58 <lcuk> time until you are ip banned :p
Apr 10 23:24:08 <b-man17> oh god xD
Apr 10 23:24:22 * b-man17 needs to talk with the server admins now
Apr 10 23:24:36 <lcuk> yeah if its your you should find it
Apr 10 23:25:02 <lcuk> that would actually make for a really cool thing
Apr 10 23:25:35 <b-man17> but something tells me that it could be Archanamiya that was enabling the bot... after all, he's the original creator ;P
Apr 10 23:25:48 <b-man17> i just enhanced it's abilities
Apr 10 23:26:43 <lcuk> you are like the radioactive spider that bites peter parker?
Apr 10 23:26:55 <b-man17> lol, i guess xDD
Apr 10 23:29:18 <b-man17> jacekowski: sure, maybe TriviaBot has become skynet xD
Apr 10 23:30:17 <b-man17> and is plotting to get it's revenge for being abused soo badly
Apr 10 23:30:18 <b-man17> xDDDD
Apr 10 23:33:15 <b-man17> hmm, it appears that there are no staff on freenode at this time..
Apr 10 23:33:19 <b-man17> * p :0 staff members
Apr 10 23:33:19 <b-man17> * p :End of /STATS report
Apr 10 23:33:39 <b-man17> :S
Apr 10 23:34:29 <b-man17> hmm, /whois returns:
Apr 10 23:34:31 <b-man17> [TriviaBot] (gizmo@how.to.undo.it): UGN Security TriviaBot
Apr 10 23:34:51 <b-man17> not my, nor Archanamiya's ip :S
Apr 10 23:36:11 <DocScrutinizer> sounds strange, no?
Apr 10 23:36:39 <b-man17> strange indeed
Apr 10 23:44:27 <LiraNuna> that's weird, calls to sqrtf hang
Apr 10 23:45:51 <lcuk> LiraNuna, is network running fine now then?
Apr 10 23:46:07 <LiraNuna> lcuk, better, but still jumpy
Apr 10 23:46:17 <jacekowski> OMG
Apr 10 23:46:28 <jacekowski> i'm trying to make that code compile
Apr 10 23:46:41 <jacekowski> and one of modifications i did was
Apr 10 23:46:42 <jacekowski> -#include <expat.h>
Apr 10 23:46:42 <jacekowski> +#include "chrome/browser/autofill/autofill_xml_parser.h"
Apr 10 23:46:55 <jacekowski> i've got no idea how
Apr 10 23:48:28 <LiraNuna> any idea why sqrtf won't return
Apr 10 23:49:08 <LiraNuna> http://pastie.org/private/lqexi5huis3y9twk5usa
Apr 10 23:49:12 <LiraNuna> code produced by GCC
Apr 10 23:49:17 <LiraNuna> sqrtf never returns
Apr 10 23:49:29 <jacekowski> what does it return?
Apr 10 23:49:34 <LiraNuna> it doesn't
Apr 10 23:49:39 <LiraNuna> sqrtf just hangs forever
Apr 10 23:49:57 <jacekowski> show me your C code
Apr 10 23:50:12 <LiraNuna> http://pastie.org/private/9vfydjrpgcslbyaqr4kea
Apr 10 23:50:26 <LiraNuna> ~ $ ./sqrtf-test 1
Apr 10 23:50:30 <LiraNuna> hangs forever
Apr 10 23:51:01 <Fredrik1994> is .ogg extension supporteded per default?
Apr 10 23:51:11 <Fredrik1994> supported*
Apr 10 23:51:23 <LiraNuna> Fredrik1994, not by default, but you can install a package for it
Apr 10 23:51:33 <LiraNuna> go to application manager and install "Ogg Support"
Apr 10 23:51:39 <Fredrik1994> ok
Apr 10 23:51:44 <LiraNuna> jacekowski, compiled with arm-linux-gnueabi-g++ -s -O2 -mcpu=cortex-a8  sqrtf-test.cpp -o sqrtf-test
Apr 10 23:52:06 <Fredrik1994> hm
Apr 10 23:52:31 <lcuk> LiraNuna, pastebin that code fragment
Apr 10 23:52:38 <lcuk> i bet your printf string is incorrect
Apr 10 23:52:51 <LiraNuna> ...
Apr 10 23:52:54 <jacekowski> strange
Apr 10 23:52:55 <LiraNuna> sqrtf returns a float
Apr 10 23:53:00 <LiraNuna> %f is perfectly fine
Apr 10 23:53:15 <lcuk> just paste the code
Apr 10 23:53:18 <LiraNuna> I did - http://pastie.org/private/9vfydjrpgcslbyaqr4kea
Apr 10 23:53:20 <jacekowski> but he did
Apr 10 23:53:22 <lcuk> forget the asm
Apr 10 23:53:28 <LiraNuna> sigh
Apr 10 23:53:29 <lcuk> doh
Apr 10 23:53:33 <lcuk> i was looking sorry
Apr 10 23:54:19 <jacekowski> 1. it's C code
Apr 10 23:54:24 <jacekowski> compile it with gcc
Apr 10 23:54:26 <jacekowski> not with g++
Apr 10 23:54:33 <LiraNuna> makes no difference
Apr 10 23:54:37 <jacekowski> and change extensiion to C
Apr 10 23:54:41 <LiraNuna> makes no difference
Apr 10 23:54:41 <jacekowski> c
Apr 10 23:54:41 <Fredrik1994> så
Apr 10 23:54:46 <lcuk> just break it down
Apr 10 23:54:46 <Fredrik1994> uh
Apr 10 23:54:48 <Fredrik1994> wrong window
Apr 10 23:54:53 <LiraNuna> lcuk, I did - sqrtf never returns
Apr 10 23:55:11 <lcuk> nice and simple and comment out things - theres only 3 blocks - also take of the optimization as first thing
Apr 10 23:55:16 <jacekowski> 2.
Apr 10 23:55:21 <jacekowski> [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > ./sqrtf-testpp 1
Apr 10 23:55:21 <jacekowski> 1.000000
Apr 10 23:55:24 <LiraNuna> lcuk, I did
Apr 10 23:55:26 <LiraNuna> no difference
Apr 10 23:55:29 <jacekowski> it's working on mine
Apr 10 23:55:30 <LiraNuna> sqrtf hangs no matter what
Apr 10 23:55:34 <jacekowski> 3 as far as i know
Apr 10 23:55:48 <jacekowski> .fnend does all you need
Apr 10 23:55:56 <jacekowski> can you send me your binary?
Apr 10 23:56:47 <LiraNuna> http://liranuna.com/junk/sqrtf-test.tar.gz
Apr 10 23:57:43 <jacekowski> emmm
Apr 10 23:57:46 <jacekowski> -rwxr-xr-x  1 jacekowski jacekowski    15258 Apr 11 01:53 sqrtf-test
Apr 10 23:57:49 <jacekowski> -rwxrwxr-x  1 jacekowski jacekowski     3239 Apr 11 01:55 sqrtf-testpp
Apr 10 23:58:07 <jacekowski> nvm
Apr 10 23:58:09 <jacekowski> mine is stripped
Apr 10 23:58:12 <jacekowski> but why?
Apr 10 23:58:20 <LiraNuna> cause I didn't -s
Apr 10 23:58:23 <jacekowski> i mean i compiled with same command
Apr 10 23:59:08 <jacekowski> anything else you did differently
Apr 10 23:59:11 <lcuk> LiraNuna, http://pastie.org/private/0zbzf4paejdqfbtbftsvcg
Apr 10 23:59:15 <lcuk> can you just build/run that
Apr 10 23:59:28 <LiraNuna> lcuk, sure... but it IS sqrtf
Apr 10 23:59:38 <LiraNuna> happens on another binary as well
Apr 10 23:59:51 <dsster> Good evening, is anyone else having problems accessing the site? especially logging in?
Apr 11 00:00:19 <LiraNuna> ~ $ ./sqrtf-test  1
Apr 11 00:00:19 <LiraNuna> testing 1, argc=2
Apr 11 00:00:20 <LiraNuna> testing 2, a=1
Apr 11 00:00:23 <LiraNuna> whoops
Apr 11 00:00:23 <lcuk> LiraNuna, and then get rid of optimizations and other things - i have had strange stuff which only happens when doubles are used in my case
Apr 11 00:00:50 <lcuk> app said whoops? :D
Apr 11 00:01:00 <LiraNuna> lcuk, no, it just hangs there
Apr 11 00:01:02 <xorAxAx> is the builder broken on maemo.org/packages?
Apr 11 00:01:12 <xorAxAx> my package has 0 bytes
Apr 11 00:01:22 <lcuk> i used to reproducably get lockups on liqbase if i used doubles in my blitter
Apr 11 00:01:23 <LiraNuna> lcuk, http://pastie.org/private/eq2yfldww2omxivarzkora
Apr 11 00:01:24 <jacekowski> check log
Apr 11 00:01:26 <LiraNuna> no optimization
Apr 11 00:01:34 <jacekowski> xorAxAx: what's package name?
Apr 11 00:01:43 <xorAxAx> jacekowski: dwimd
Apr 11 00:02:04 <lcuk> LiraNuna, what about the other specific cpu options etc
Apr 11 00:02:14 <LiraNuna> I can remove if you want
Apr 11 00:02:16 <lcuk> (i dont doubt there could be compiler problems
Apr 11 00:02:18 <lcuk> yes
Apr 11 00:02:55 <LiraNuna> huh
Apr 11 00:02:59 <LiraNuna> linking with -lm solves it
Apr 11 00:03:26 <lcuk> hah
Apr 11 00:03:29 <LiraNuna> wtf?
Apr 11 00:03:32 <LiraNuna> why idn't it complain
Apr 11 00:03:37 <lcuk> thats not it is it
Apr 11 00:03:45 <lcuk> its part of it i think
Apr 11 00:03:57 <lcuk> there must be a symbol defined somewhere giving sqrtf
Apr 11 00:04:03 <lcuk> otherwise build would fail
Apr 11 00:04:09 <jacekowski> https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/dwimd_0.2-3/armel.root.log.OK.txt
Apr 11 00:04:59 <lcuk> LiraNuna, its not your night is it ;)
Apr 11 00:05:02 <LiraNuna> nope
Apr 11 00:05:05 * lcuk slides over a beer
Apr 11 00:05:23 <LiraNuna> it hangs again if I use .cpp / -lm
Apr 11 00:05:28 <lcuk> i gave up headscratching at windows
Apr 11 00:05:39 <LiraNuna> I'm running Linux
Apr 11 00:05:47 <lcuk> im on about me
Apr 11 00:05:50 <LiraNuna> oh
Apr 11 00:06:49 <LiraNuna> lcuk, question is
Apr 11 00:06:52 <LiraNuna> why doesn't GCC use VSQRT
Apr 11 00:07:03 <lcuk> VSQRT?
Apr 11 00:07:10 <LiraNuna> VFP instruction
Apr 11 00:07:13 <jacekowski> LiraNuna: works on my computer
Apr 11 00:07:22 <lcuk> visual foxpro?
Apr 11 00:07:28 <LiraNuna> ...
Apr 11 00:07:32 <LiraNuna> it's an ARM instruction
Apr 11 00:07:48 <jacekowski> gcc isn't the best compiler
Apr 11 00:07:51 <jacekowski> but it's the only one
Apr 11 00:08:08 <lcuk> it depends on the asm mode doesnt it
Apr 11 00:08:22 <LiraNuna> even when adding -mfpu=vfpv3
Apr 11 00:08:31 <jacekowski> well, even on x86 simd instructions are barely supported
Apr 11 00:08:39 <jacekowski> i mean - it supports them
Apr 11 00:08:48 <jacekowski> but very rarely generates code for them
Apr 11 00:08:57 <LiraNuna> that's not true
Apr 11 00:09:06 <LiraNuna> try coding for x86_64 and do
Apr 11 00:09:13 <lcuk> yeah cos it has to identify patterns in its v1 code to replace
Apr 11 00:09:27 <LiraNuna> float max(float a, float b) { return a > b ? a : b; }
Apr 11 00:09:32 <LiraNuna> and it'll use maxss
Apr 11 00:09:42 <LiraNuna> SSE instruction
Apr 11 00:09:51 <LiraNuna> same for min / minss
Apr 11 00:09:59 <LiraNuna> GCC is smart - don't take credits from it
Apr 11 00:10:10 <LiraNuna> jacekowski, please read http://www.liranuna.com/sse-intrinsics-optimizations-in-popular-compilers/
Apr 11 00:10:26 <LiraNuna> I am NOT a novice who can be told "GCC sucks deal with it"
Apr 11 00:10:27 <jacekowski> it's better in 4.x.x
Apr 11 00:10:29 <lcuk> so LiraNuna perhaps you could get into the gcc/arm mailing list area
Apr 11 00:10:32 <derf> And there's approximately a thousand times more effort put into the x86 backend compared to ARM.
Apr 11 00:10:32 <jacekowski> but in 3.x was hopeless
Apr 11 00:10:54 <LiraNuna> derf, I was refering to <jacekowski> well, even on x86 simd instructions are barely supported
Apr 11 00:11:36 <derf> The real reason gcc uses SSE for floating point is because the 80x87 FPU does horrible and confusing things to the precision.
Apr 11 00:11:47 <jacekowski> and there was recently lot of people moaning about icc generating much better code
Apr 11 00:11:50 <lcuk> LiraNuna, if you have the skills and time to identify/report/fix/improve gcc on arm then go for it :)
Apr 11 00:11:52 <LiraNuna> sqrtf() in GCC / x86_64 results into sqrtss
Apr 11 00:11:54 <derf> So once they had a way to stop using it, they jumped at the chance.
Apr 11 00:12:24 <lcuk> we dont have an x86_64 here tho
Apr 11 00:12:35 <LiraNuna> and I know how GCC's optimizer works, it recognizes sqrtf as an intrinsic NOT a function
Apr 11 00:12:39 <lcuk> actually, gcc must be better than i would have made it
Apr 11 00:12:43 <LiraNuna> unless it's in softfp mode
Apr 11 00:12:50 <LiraNuna> hmm
Apr 11 00:12:53 <lcuk> at least it KNOWS not to try making a sqrtss instruction on arm :D
Apr 11 00:12:53 <LiraNuna> softfp
Apr 11 00:12:56 * LiraNuna investigates
Apr 11 00:13:04 <LiraNuna> it's multilib time
Apr 11 00:13:05 <lcuk> its prolly a thumb issue isnt it
Apr 11 00:13:12 <derf> That said, gcc still does a pretty bad job of generating _actual_ SIMD job (which is no insult to gcc... doing so from C is extremely difficult; nobody does it well).
Apr 11 00:13:12 <lcuk> very minimal instructionset ?
Apr 11 00:13:14 <LiraNuna> lcuk, asm shows ARM mode
Apr 11 00:13:18 <derf> *SIMD code
Apr 11 00:13:32 <LiraNuna> derf, auto-vectorization sucks everywhere
Apr 11 00:13:39 <derf> I just said that.
Apr 11 00:13:48 <LiraNuna> yeah, I don't expect the compiler to do that anyway
Apr 11 00:14:01 <LiraNuna> anyway, it's multilib time
Apr 11 00:14:01 <derf> Though it would be a lot easier from, say, FORTRAN.
Apr 11 00:14:18 * lcuk runs through LiraNuna's house and turns off his router unexpectedly
Apr 11 00:14:27 <LiraNuna> :O
Apr 11 00:14:47 <LiraNuna> /quit #maemo Connection Timed Out
Apr 11 00:14:49 <LiraNuna> OOPS
Apr 11 00:15:19 <LiraNuna> something makes GCC go into softfp mode
Apr 11 00:23:04 <dsster> Has anyone here tried rtorrent on their n900?
Apr 11 00:24:44 <LiraNuna> I knew it!
Apr 11 00:24:46 <LiraNuna> softfp!
Apr 11 00:24:48 <LiraNuna> what the hell?!
Apr 11 00:24:49 <LiraNuna> 	bl	__aeabi_fadd
Apr 11 00:27:26 <LiraNuna> you're kidding...
Apr 11 00:27:26 <LiraNuna> sqrtf-test.cpp:1: sorry, unimplemented: -mfloat-abi=hard and VFP
Apr 11 00:28:01 <DocScrutinizer> <trollmode>if you need fp to code your app, then probably the app isn't worth to be coded at all</trollmode>
Apr 11 00:28:42 <LiraNuna> if it wasn't for the trollmode tags, I'd shoot you in place
Apr 11 00:29:16 <jacekowski> jacekowski:/var/log/apache2# cat access.log | grep chromiu | wc -l
Apr 11 00:29:16 <jacekowski> 5349
Apr 11 00:29:52 <jacekowski> X-Fade: have you thought about making package download statistics for repository.maemo.org?
Apr 11 00:31:50 <b-man|laptop> ok, i fixed the TriviaBot issue - killed it's account xD
Apr 11 00:32:52 <DocScrutinizer> UH?
Apr 11 00:33:21 <LiraNuna> HORRAY!
Apr 11 00:33:21 <LiraNuna> 	fsqrts	s15, s17
Apr 11 00:33:24 <b-man|laptop> LOL
Apr 11 00:34:21 <b-man|laptop> DocScrutinize, i got a note stating "hi there! It appears your bot TriviaBot is severely broken and keeps trying to join #freenode and then leaving.. bots are not allowed in #freenode so please fix this as soon as you can. Thanks!"
Apr 11 00:35:04 <b-man|laptop> and apparently the bot grew a mind of it's own - because i deleted the bot from my computer months ago
Apr 11 00:35:07 <LiraNuna> lcuk, derf, see? GCC is perfectly capable of using HW accel floats
Apr 11 00:35:20 <MohammadAG> is a bot suitable in #maemo?
Apr 11 00:35:26 <MohammadAG> a trivia one
Apr 11 00:35:38 <lcuk> no
Apr 11 00:35:43 <b-man|laptop> hell no xDD
Apr 11 00:35:44 <lcuk> LiraNuna, cool beans
Apr 11 00:35:48 <derf> And what did you have to do to fix it?
Apr 11 00:35:55 <MohammadAG> b-man|laptop, thought you were bringing one in...
Apr 11 00:35:58 <b-man|laptop> delete it's account
Apr 11 00:36:20 <b-man|laptop> MohammadAG: this was freenode in general, not #maemo
Apr 11 00:36:38 <LiraNuna> derf, I enabled softabi
Apr 11 00:36:42 <LiraNuna>  arm-linux-gnueabi-g++ -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -O2 -S sqrtf-test.cpp -o sqrtf-test
Apr 11 00:36:45 <b-man|laptop> i had to contact an admin and he helped me delete the account
Apr 11 00:36:45 <MohammadAG> b-man|laptop, ah kk
Apr 11 00:36:54 <MohammadAG> just /ns drop it
Apr 11 00:37:01 <LiraNuna> this should be default in the toolchain
Apr 11 00:38:11 <b-man|laptop> MohammadAG: i almost had to use a special password reset key xD
Apr 11 00:38:44 <DocScrutinizer> b-man|laptop: I know the background. I fail to see which account you deleted, as you.cant.undo.it wouldn't use any account you could delete?
Apr 11 00:39:34 <b-man|laptop> DocScrutinizer: the account was under my name, so i was able to remove it
Apr 11 00:40:22 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, so how as the italian bot able to register with your account & pw?
Apr 11 00:40:40 <lcuk> mafia got hold of it and subverted it to their needs
Apr 11 00:41:24 <b-man|laptop> DocScrutinizer: i originally created the account to have a trivia bot under #maemo-trivia, but when i decided to take it down, i forgot to remove the bot's account
Apr 11 00:42:03 <b-man|laptop> as for the strange activities sense then, i have no idea :S
Apr 11 00:42:04 <DocScrutinizer> we are talking about a freenode nickserv account, or what?
Apr 11 00:42:11 <b-man|laptop> yes
Apr 11 00:42:31 <lcuk> and the bot was hardcoded to use these credentials?
Apr 11 00:42:43 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Apr 11 00:43:08 <b-man|laptop> lcuk: if you mean hardwired account information, no
Apr 11 00:43:40 <lcuk> ok, so somehow someone has binary+config of your bot
Apr 11 00:43:47 <b-man|laptop> yup
Apr 11 00:43:51 <DocScrutinizer> so again, where from got the italian bot the password to register with 'your' freenode account?
Apr 11 00:45:01 <DocScrutinizer> btw when you delete an account, it's probably damn easy to recreate it
Apr 11 00:45:02 <b-man|laptop> DocScrutinizer: i created the bot's account while i was identifies as 'b-man17' in freenode, so it created the account under the name of b-man17
Apr 11 00:45:39 <DocScrutinizer> you probably better had changed the password
Apr 11 00:45:46 <b-man|laptop> i did
Apr 11 00:45:59 <lcuk> and get a fake identity
Apr 11 00:46:05 <b-man|laptop> LOL
Apr 11 00:46:06 <lcuk> we should put you in witless protection
Apr 11 00:46:30 <lcuk> n
Apr 11 00:46:52 <b-man|laptop> DocScrutinizer: it used a septate account password than my account from the start ;)
Apr 11 00:47:20 <b-man|laptop> it was just 'under my name'
Apr 11 00:47:30 <DocScrutinizer> I never thought different
Apr 11 00:48:00 <DocScrutinizer> still it'd be better to keep the account and just change the password
Apr 11 00:48:23 <b-man|laptop> i deleted the account
Apr 11 00:48:34 <ech0Asus> anyone know how to scan other channels besides 6?
Apr 11 00:48:36 <DocScrutinizer> so now everybody is free to reclaim it
Apr 11 00:48:46 <ech0Asus> cause that would be sick..
Apr 11 00:49:13 <b-man|laptop> DocScrutinizer: the nickname sure, the actual account using the nickname no longer exists
Apr 11 00:50:23 <b-man|laptop> lcuk: i'll move to London xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Apr 11 00:52:48 <DocScrutinizer> well polonium is toxic only for Russians in London
Apr 11 01:09:16 <LiraNuna> jacekowski, apparently valgrind doesn't support ARM
Apr 11 01:09:29 <LiraNuna> checking host system type... arm-unknown-linux-gnueabi
Apr 11 01:09:29 <LiraNuna> checking for a supported CPU... no (arm)
Apr 11 01:09:30 <LiraNuna> :(
Apr 11 01:10:47 <lindi-> LiraNuna: there are patches
Apr 11 01:10:53 <LiraNuna> right, but it's incomplete
Apr 11 01:10:57 <LiraNuna> http://old.nabble.com/Valgrind-on-ARM-patch-td19365648.html
Apr 11 01:11:43 <lindi-> LiraNuna: there has been progress in 2009
Apr 11 01:13:58 <robtaylor> lindi-: oh, awesome! i don't suppose there's a git tree anywhere?
Apr 11 01:14:20 <LiraNuna> lindi-, well, it's not on 3.5
Apr 11 01:14:28 <LiraNuna> anywhere I can get the source from?
Apr 11 01:15:57 <robtaylor> LiraNuna: it looks like sid's valgrind has a bunch of armel support patches in
Apr 11 01:16:30 <DocScrutinizer> lindi-: :-) o/
Apr 11 01:17:14 <ech0Asus> grr i want to apt-get install skype but it dont work :(
Apr 11 01:17:55 <lindi-> robtaylor: well the 2009 patches are in https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=126449 at least
Apr 11 01:17:56 <povbot> Bug 126449: was not found.
Apr 11 01:18:29 <LiraNuna> ech0Asus, skype is built into N900; if you're in N810/N800 it should be in the default repository
Apr 11 01:18:38 <ech0Asus> i don't like the built in skype
Apr 11 01:18:55 <ech0Asus> i can't check my voicemails
Apr 11 01:19:10 <LiraNuna> good point, file a bug?
Apr 11 01:19:28 <LiraNuna> ech0Asus, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7470
Apr 11 01:19:29 <povbot> Bug 7470: N900 does not support Skype Voicemail Settings
Apr 11 01:19:55 <LiraNuna> "This is currently being worked on"
Apr 11 01:20:02 <robtaylor> LiraNuna: LiraNuna: interestingly, it looks like a lot of arm valgrind support is going into lucid's package, with some guy from arm working on it
Apr 11 01:20:14 <LiraNuna> robtaylor, interesting
Apr 11 01:20:23 <ech0Asus> i installed easy debian just to try and see if i could get it installed through that but its not there :(
Apr 11 01:20:24 * robtaylor guesses google are paying for that
Apr 11 01:20:25 <LiraNuna> so, can we get lucid on the N900? :D
Apr 11 01:20:27 <andres> ech0Asus: should be there in the next weeks (1.2)
Apr 11 01:20:41 <LiraNuna> ech0Asus, skype desktop doesn't have ARM version
Apr 11 01:20:44 <robtaylor> LiraNuna: just dget the package and build under sb
Apr 11 01:20:45 <DocScrutinizer> ech0Asus: surprise surprise
Apr 11 01:20:57 <robtaylor> LiraNuna: though YMMV ;)
Apr 11 01:21:12 <LiraNuna> YMMV == ?
Apr 11 01:21:43 <robtaylor> LiraNuna: your mileage may vary
Apr 11 01:21:51 <LiraNuna> oh
Apr 11 01:21:53 <ech0Asus> any way to scan more then chan 6?
Apr 11 01:21:55 <LiraNuna> I don't use scratchbox
Apr 11 01:21:58 <LiraNuna> I got my own toolchain
Apr 11 01:23:36 <DocScrutinizer> ech0Asus: [2010-04-10 17:31:47] <DocScrutinizer> you're aware skype binary is closed-source, (c) skype/ebay, and even crypted?
Apr 11 01:23:41 <LiraNuna> ech0Asus, just wait a bit - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45449
Apr 11 01:24:20 <LiraNuna> DocScrutinizer, apparently they work really hard on crypting it, they even got anti-debugger code
Apr 11 01:24:34 <robtaylor> LiraNuna: ah, you could grab the package and then apply the patches.
Apr 11 01:24:45 <DocScrutinizer> LiraNuna: I know :-D
Apr 11 01:25:12 <LiraNuna> DocScrutinizer, I take it you saw that lecture?
Apr 11 01:25:24 <DocScrutinizer> blackhat? yep
Apr 11 01:26:25 <dsster> has anyone tried running PSX4Pandora on the N900? Looks like they did a pretty good job with it.. cpu and gpu is identical to n900
Apr 11 01:27:25 <LiraNuna> dsster, should be trivial, pandora uses Linux too
Apr 11 01:27:31 <ech0Asus> anyone else installed anything with easy debian? i got aircrack workin with it just locked on chan 6 for some lame reason lol..
Apr 11 01:27:48 <ech0Asus> iceweasel works pretty good...
Apr 11 01:28:40 <DocScrutinizer> ech0Asus: yep, noticed that as well. Seems to be a 'known issue'
Apr 11 01:29:47 <ech0Asus> is known issue fixable? lol
Apr 11 01:29:54 <dsster> yeah they are using gentoo
Apr 11 01:30:02 <LiraNuna> dsster, I can't seem to find anything (binary or source) about PSX4Pandora
Apr 11 01:30:22 <DocScrutinizer> dunno, might be a wifi firmware issue
Apr 11 01:30:50 <dsster> LiraNuna: gimme a min. i'll find it. I would test myself but I just order my n900 yestorday :)
Apr 11 01:35:14 <ech0Asus> hrm wonder what bluetooth tools could be installed with easy debian...
Apr 11 01:35:46 <ech0Asus> never played with bt before..
Apr 11 01:35:58 <dsster> LiraNuna: it's hard to find for me too. I'll keep looking
Apr 11 01:36:10 <LiraNuna> dsster, when you find source/binary - tell me :)
Apr 11 01:36:43 <ech0Asus> hrm, ill check app list from backtrack and see if any are in synaptic :)
Apr 11 01:47:26 <lcuk> LiraNuna, before i forget
Apr 11 01:47:36 <lcuk> the arm asm stuff you found earlier
Apr 11 01:48:03 <lcuk> could you do a blog post or amend whichever wiki page is reqd with info on how people can make sure the hardware ops are used
Apr 11 01:48:29 <lcuk> (since im guessing you didnt need to actually rebuild gcc itself)
Apr 11 01:48:52 <LiraNuna> hold on
Apr 11 01:49:11 <LiraNuna> LiraNuna, for best results, I think -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp
Apr 11 01:49:20 <LiraNuna> dunno if you need more
Apr 11 01:49:30 <LiraNuna> -mfpu=vfpv3
Apr 11 01:49:41 <lcuk> but irc is very poor for retention and information transfer to > sum of people listed there and paying attention
Apr 11 01:50:39 <lcuk> a "best practices optimising builds on maemo" sort of post would be what im thinking i suppose
Apr 11 01:50:44 <LiraNuna> I'm busy atm
Apr 11 01:50:47 <LiraNuna> D:
Apr 11 01:50:49 <lcuk> i know
Apr 11 01:50:58 <LiraNuna> sorry, just Ctrl+R'd on my termina
Apr 11 01:51:02 <lcuk> and a blog post for a single bit of info isnt needed :p
Apr 11 01:52:02 <lcuk> but it would be good to build this sort of knowledge up or add to things if they are there
Apr 11 01:59:39 <jacekowski> i think i have working package
Apr 11 02:02:31 <jacekowski> i don't even have blog
Apr 11 02:02:43 <jacekowski> my only existence in internet is in irclogs
Apr 11 02:02:48 <jacekowski> and some forum posts
Apr 11 02:03:08 <jacekowski> which ussualy end up in me showing my antisocial behaviour
Apr 11 02:03:22 <jacekowski> ( that's why i don't have blog )
Apr 11 02:04:13 <jacekowski> can anybody check something for me?
Apr 11 02:05:28 <jacekowski> and, is there any article/wiki entry/whatever about general UI guidelines
Apr 11 02:13:39 <ptl_demands_PR12> jacekowski: in the maemo 5 sdk they had some stuff
Apr 11 02:13:52 <ptl_demands_PR12> jacekowski: but intertwined with hildon programming
Apr 11 02:14:08 <dsster> LiraNuna: I found the guy who wrote it. ZodTTD is a cool dude. Still trying to find the source
Apr 11 02:14:54 <ptl_demands_PR12> jacekowski: http://wiki.maemo.org/Legacy_Maemo_5_Documentation/Human_Interface_Guidelines/Notes_and_Banners
Apr 11 02:16:28 <rm_you> aight, I guess texrat didn't go to TX Linuxfest :(
Apr 11 02:16:37 <rm_you> met a couple other maemo people there though
Apr 11 02:16:41 <rm_you> which was cool :)
Apr 11 02:17:07 <jacekowski> ptl_demands_PR12: do you ever sleep?
Apr 11 02:28:11 <ptl_demands_PR12> jacekowski: I slept all day today :) and I also slept (somewhat) with my new girlfriend before that, a few hours earlier
Apr 11 02:33:31 <dsster> LiraNuna: are you still there?
Apr 11 02:33:40 <dsster> LiraNuna: I believe I found something
Apr 11 02:35:29 <dsster> What version of psx4all is n900 using? Is it the one ZodTTD updates?
Apr 11 02:36:34 <dsster> I was searching for hours :(
Apr 11 02:40:35 <jacekowski> i'm just wondering if removing unused parts from repository would be good idea
Apr 11 02:40:48 <jacekowski> ( other platform versions and etc. )
Apr 11 02:45:47 <dsster> anyone here know what the hell is a .gpe file format?
Apr 11 02:46:52 <luke-jr> probably something for GPE?
Apr 11 02:47:04 <luke-jr> anyhow, file formats are foo/bar, not .foo
Apr 11 02:47:15 <luke-jr> .foo is just part of the filename and can be anything
Apr 11 02:53:36 <dsster> http://dl.openhandhelds.org/cgi-bin/wiz.cgi?0,0,0,0,71,171
Apr 11 02:53:47 <dsster> this is all i found from psx4pandora
Apr 11 02:55:01 <dsster> This looks like it's for palm os?
Apr 11 02:55:17 <DocScrutinizer> file *.gpe
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