**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 27 02:59:57 2010 Apr 27 03:00:05 Well, the whole Android thing is a bugger Apr 27 03:00:08 But the hardware isn't great Apr 27 03:00:18 OLED, in particular, makes any extended text viewing impossible for me. Apr 27 03:00:23 So, FBReader is right out. Apr 27 03:00:34 Capacitive makes me want to break things. Apr 27 03:01:46 lol Apr 27 03:01:52 why is oled problematic? Apr 27 03:02:22 for viewing? hi btw GeneralAntilles Apr 27 03:02:32 pupnik_, the pixels seem to be non-square Apr 27 03:02:39 Or at least they have the appearance of that Apr 27 03:02:44 Which makes font edges really ugly Apr 27 03:02:48 Even at high PPI. Apr 27 03:03:03 they do look more pixelated iirc Apr 27 03:04:35 It's also super oversaturated Apr 27 03:04:46 You think maemo.org orange makes your eyes bleed on a desktop LCD Apr 27 03:04:51 Just wait until you see it on the Nexus One! Apr 27 03:05:30 saturation we can fix with X Apr 27 03:05:34 i think Apr 27 03:05:42 lol Apr 27 04:09:37 hey z4chh, howzit going? Apr 27 04:15:56 http://gizmodo.com/5524604/real-goddamn-flying-nazi-soldiers-with-jet-packs Apr 27 05:05:30 and there goes tmo Apr 27 05:10:49 hm Apr 27 05:12:30 where is information on running koffice on the n900? Apr 27 05:12:38 i'm looking at the kde forums and well.. :) Apr 27 05:15:28 good ... well morning for me :p Apr 27 05:15:34 evening for most of you i guess? :) Apr 27 05:15:55 seems the koffice project that is in progress is a viewer only Apr 27 05:15:57 :/ Apr 27 05:16:13 google docs should work today :) Apr 27 05:16:22 lol you want to run a full koffice on the n900? :o Apr 27 05:16:32 Heh, wow, what process takes 100% of cpu and drains the battery from "fully charged" to "can't even turn on" within an hour? Apr 27 05:16:39 *in offline mode* Apr 27 05:16:45 anyone know if theres a solution around syncing with mail for exchange problems? Apr 27 05:17:01 seems after a while my phone cant sync anymore with google calendar Apr 27 05:17:13 and I dont seem to be the only one with the problem Apr 27 05:17:33 some say it's if you add things to the phones calendar that it does not want to sync anymore? :/ Apr 27 05:18:16 timeless_mbp: ugh Apr 27 05:18:21 again with the google docs :) Apr 27 05:18:28 what if i don't want to use google? Apr 27 05:18:30 * Macer hides Apr 27 05:18:33 Macer: hey, i work on one of the best mobile web browsers in the world Apr 27 05:18:36 * Macer checks his blinds Apr 27 05:18:43 well, you could try ms office for the web Apr 27 05:18:49 :o Apr 27 05:18:50 wtf ever happened to quickoffice? it worked great on my n95 :) Apr 27 05:19:04 although.. i wanted something that used opendoc format Apr 27 05:19:07 Lucius: Tracker? Apr 27 05:19:09 i usually use openoffice Apr 27 05:19:17 doesn't easydebian come with openoffice? :) Apr 27 05:19:31 Gh0sty: Have you considered using google.com for finding an answer to your question? Apr 27 05:19:45 Gh0sty: Or maybe searching for "exchange" at talk.maemo.org? Apr 27 05:20:01 i remember someone saying that you can get openoffice going .. but i'd rather have a portable koffice if it is better for the screen Apr 27 05:20:18 RST38h: I did but found a lot of similar problems but not really a solution ... (yet) Apr 27 05:20:20 Macer: Koffice is kinda unusable on Maemo Apr 27 05:20:22 but it seems like they are only doing the viewer only thing.. why do i feel androided? :) Apr 27 05:20:24 Macer: too slow Apr 27 05:20:45 RST38h: the native maemo ver they are working on? Apr 27 05:20:52 Macer: yea Apr 27 05:20:58 i've been looking around and it seems like it's a viewer only so far :) Apr 27 05:21:08 Macer: Apparently, it starts swapping and you know what happens next... Apr 27 05:21:12 unless the forums i'm reading are old Apr 27 05:21:13 RST38h: haha Apr 27 05:21:13 It is a viewer, yes Apr 27 05:21:23 the phone crashes and starts to melt Apr 27 05:21:24 based on the pictures i've seen internally Apr 27 05:21:29 and the included death ray stops working :) Apr 27 05:21:31 i don't think it's going to always be a viewer Apr 27 05:21:31 Macer: Nah, it does not crash Apr 27 05:21:38 but making a viewer is a reasonable starting point Apr 27 05:21:42 reducing scope is a good thin Apr 27 05:21:43 g Apr 27 05:21:47 timeless_mbp: yeah they say they are going to work on making it functional Apr 27 05:21:48 Macer: But it hangs the system hard, for dozens of seconds at a time Apr 27 05:21:53 is abiword on a repo? Apr 27 05:21:57 yes Apr 27 05:22:02 abiword is actually more usable Apr 27 05:22:09 it's a little more lightweight Apr 27 05:22:17 i need a word processor and cups on my phone :) Apr 27 05:22:17 haha Apr 27 05:22:33 but then again. i'm sure most maemo apps wouldn't have cups support :/ Apr 27 05:22:45 who needs cups support... Apr 27 05:23:05 i remember the only way to get it working on my n810 was to use pb kde 3.5 Apr 27 05:23:10 RST38h; xprint instead? Apr 27 05:23:14 RST38h: i do :-P Apr 27 05:23:15 haha Apr 27 05:23:26 I'd say you need a real document viewer, but hardly a word processor Apr 27 05:23:28 i want to print to my laser printer straight from my phone :) Apr 27 05:23:36 but then again, you already have a PDF viewer, which accounts for 90% of what people need to do on the go Apr 27 05:23:49 If you are serious about editing .doc files on the go, get a laptop. Apr 27 05:23:54 crashanddie: my n95 had bt printing Apr 27 05:23:56 and quickoffice Apr 27 05:24:11 And you can get BT to USB converters Apr 27 05:24:14 i typed an entire term paper using my su8w (hung over) in like an hour Apr 27 05:24:15 haha Apr 27 05:24:38 plus... i'd rather carry a laptop in my pocket instead of in a bag ;) Apr 27 05:24:49 Macer: I think that really is an exception rather than the rule Apr 27 05:24:53 most threads say like syncing works for a while and then stops working but no realy answers to why or how :( Apr 27 05:25:06 crashanddie: yeah but.. why bother carrying around a netbook when you don't have to? Apr 27 05:25:07 Gh0sty: because MfE is broken Apr 27 05:25:10 (and it does not look google calendar specific) Apr 27 05:25:18 i never understood why this wasn't looked into more as far as "smartphones" go Apr 27 05:25:23 the elimination of the netbook :) Apr 27 05:25:24 Macer: well, if you have to write documents, that qualifies as "have to" Apr 27 05:25:24 E70 has bt printing Apr 27 05:25:41 crashanddie: and anyone is looking into that? :/ Apr 27 05:25:44 It's already painful on a netbook Apr 27 05:25:44 Macer: because writing a real document on a phone is a pain? Apr 27 05:25:46 crashanddie: yeah it worked fine on my n95 .. i could see myself using it day to day Apr 27 05:25:48 Gh0sty: PR1.2 hopefully Apr 27 05:25:55 crashanddie: not really Apr 27 05:25:57 Macer: I seriously doubt that Apr 27 05:26:09 some people love pain Apr 27 05:26:12 i'm telling you.. on my n95 using quickoffice and my su8w it was fine Apr 27 05:26:16 Macer: I had Doc2Go on my blackberry, and trust me, I would never want to use that really Apr 27 05:26:28 you need the bt folding pocket kb ;) Apr 27 05:26:35 makes it way better Apr 27 05:26:36 heh Apr 27 05:26:36 hm and thats coming out when? :P (as far as i understood from other threads i've been reading 1.2 is going to fix a lot of issues? ) Apr 27 05:26:39 blackberry. eh. that is what I meant. Apr 27 05:26:55 i'm not saying type whole docs using the phone kb Apr 27 05:27:02 Gh0sty: Sometime between second coming of Jesus and Armageddon Apr 27 05:27:25 does koffice/abiword support those standardized document formats used by default in openoffice? Apr 27 05:27:27 Gh0sty: what the communist said Apr 27 05:27:35 PR1.2 will be released later in this week Apr 27 05:27:44 crashanddie: i thought using my su8w and my n95 was great Apr 27 05:27:45 Gh0sty: you don't know that :) Apr 27 05:27:45 is the last msg in the very large thread say? :p Apr 27 05:27:47 :) Apr 27 05:28:04 or is that just someone making that up? :p Apr 27 05:28:12 i thought using my su8w and koffice then printing with cups on my n810 was even better hehe Apr 27 05:28:14 Gh0sty: they've been announcing dates for months now. It's become a bit of a pr1.2-lotto Apr 27 05:28:21 lol Apr 27 05:28:24 i was carrying around a netbook in my pocket :) Apr 27 05:28:25 whomever gets the date right gets a free cookie Apr 27 05:28:25 where can we place bets ? :p Apr 27 05:28:37 ladbrokes Apr 27 05:28:41 :D Apr 27 05:28:43 well. pockets.. had an n810 in one and su8w in another Apr 27 05:29:10 i think the portable printing office suite has been overlooked :) Apr 27 05:29:23 it hasn't Apr 27 05:29:28 especially when you consider that maemo and the hardware can handle it Apr 27 05:29:32 it's not even a niche Apr 27 05:29:34 because there is no market Apr 27 05:29:38 Chuck Norris doesn't wait for PR1.2, he's already running Meego on his N1000. Apr 27 05:29:40 lol :D Apr 27 05:29:46 funny thread :) Apr 27 05:29:47 crashanddie: there is probably no market because you can't do it :) Apr 27 05:29:59 i bet if people started to show others that it could be done then it wouldn't be niche Apr 27 05:30:02 it's a niche for the larvae that live in the niche of mobile computing Apr 27 05:30:06 hahaha Apr 27 05:30:09 crashanddie: i disagree Apr 27 05:30:12 then again Apr 27 05:30:21 in teh beginning .. mp3 players were niche :-pP Apr 27 05:30:26 True Apr 27 05:30:27 it's ok.. we can wait for apple to do it on an iphone Apr 27 05:30:33 and sell the folding iphone keyboard Apr 27 05:30:40 and see how maemo dropped the ball when it had the chance Apr 27 05:30:42 like palm :) Apr 27 05:30:45 except that mobile office has been tried multiple times Apr 27 05:30:47 haha Apr 27 05:31:00 palm did it, nokia did it, blackberry did it Apr 27 05:31:05 and look where it is now? Nowhere. Apr 27 05:31:08 no they didn't Apr 27 05:31:21 :) Apr 27 05:31:38 Maybe it's like the tablet? We need Apple to launch iPrint for iPhone from iWorks Apr 27 05:32:09 i'm telling you.. once apple realizes it .. iphones and ikeyboards will be flying off the shelves Apr 27 05:32:22 and then iWill be iHappy and feel so much iJoy about iPrint for iPhone through iWorks that I'll get an iPad for my iLivingRoom Apr 27 05:32:25 and all those macbooks will be replaced with iphones that can use office suites and print al in one :) Apr 27 05:32:28 hahaha Apr 27 05:32:59 but until then, it's iFail, and utterly iUseless, and iMNotGoingToHappen Apr 27 05:33:00 they'll make sure there's a huge apple symbol on the cradle that holds the iphone.. hell.. why not use it as a supplement battery as well :) Apr 27 05:33:16 crashanddie: alrighty :) we'll see Apr 27 05:33:35 Macer: macbooks are seriously good computers Apr 27 05:33:49 they are also large Apr 27 05:34:04 I'm just waiting for Microsoft to release a new version of Office for Mac and I'll be happy -- the old version is becoming quite dated Apr 27 05:34:10 and require a bag to carry Apr 27 05:34:11 Well, 13" isn't that big Apr 27 05:34:16 large enough Apr 27 05:34:28 I always have a courier bag for my cameras anyway Apr 27 05:35:00 Most, if not all business people always have a bag with them too Apr 27 05:35:12 If they don't need a bag, they don't need to edit documents -- there is no usecase Apr 27 05:35:24 well.. personally.. i'd rather go to class with pdf scans of my text books.. and able to bust out a folding keyboard and phone with an office suite.. type whatever i need while using the pdfs as books and print it on the networked univ printers Apr 27 05:35:35 and all i need to do that.. is cups ... and an office suite Apr 27 05:35:41 the rest is already in place :) Apr 27 05:35:50 Either you go to a customer for a long period of time warranting the need to edit documents on the go, and then you just take your laptop with you. Or you go lightweight, and the only thing you need is email on your blackberry and taking notes using pen and paper Apr 27 05:35:56 and if you can run kde + cups + koffice on an n810 Apr 27 05:36:00 Macer: google has a net print solution for you :) Apr 27 05:36:04 then on an n900 it should be rather easy :) Apr 27 05:36:15 timeless_mbp: haha.. screw google :) Apr 27 05:36:25 But I can assure you that you can't take notes fast enough in front of a customer, using the N900, so there is no business case Apr 27 05:36:28 * Macer looks for the black trucks Apr 27 05:36:57 plus you look utterly unprofessional when you do so (face pressed into your keyboard, your tongue sticking out because you're concentrating on getting the right keys) Apr 27 05:37:09 crashanddie: hey. all i know is that in school all i needed was my n95 and my su8w Apr 27 05:37:11 Whereas with a laptop, your arms are relaxed, your posture looks good, you can look at the customer, smile and look pretty while touch typing Apr 27 05:37:13 :) Apr 27 05:37:16 haha Apr 27 05:37:25 well, wait until you get out of school and start doing real work Apr 27 05:37:38 crashanddie: i am out of school and doing real work Apr 27 05:37:46 and want to use my n900 and my su8w Apr 27 05:37:47 :) Apr 27 05:38:04 What do you do, exactly? Apr 27 05:38:43 IT stuff.. contracted server and client configs usually :) Apr 27 05:38:53 Macer: but i like google! Apr 27 05:39:00 yeah, you're not a business user mate Apr 27 05:39:04 you're IT, which means you want a gadget Apr 27 05:39:15 so don't pretend to acknowledge the needs of business ;) Apr 27 05:39:24 timeless_mbp: i actually set up a local zimbra server just to avoid using google ;) Apr 27 05:39:39 You don't need to print. You can get slashdot on your n900, and you should be printing your servers/software doco before you leave your desk Apr 27 05:39:40 crashanddie: i do the contracting myself.. i'm self employed / employer with over 20 high paying clients Apr 27 05:39:44 what a waste of resources! Apr 27 05:39:46 trust me i do plenty of "business" Apr 27 05:39:47 haha Apr 27 05:40:16 crashanddie: what question? Apr 27 05:40:25 if you're too fat/lazy to back to your desk to print out some shit or take a laptop, or unorganised to actually think ahead, "not our problem" Apr 27 05:40:26 business in qoutes Apr 27 05:40:28 Stskeeps: eh? Apr 27 05:40:29 definitely sexual favors Apr 27 05:40:35 acidjazz: LMAO Apr 27 05:41:10 and yes. i want my gadget.. i want my records on an n900 and able to print them directly off the phone if i need them ... and type proposals out on my phone and folding bt keyboard that i simply have to pull out of my pocket :) Apr 27 05:41:33 crashanddie: ~5 hours ago you had an important question laying in bed or something Apr 27 05:41:37 realistically an n900 makes a netbook redundant Apr 27 05:41:45 Stskeeps: yeah, can't remember it Apr 27 05:41:57 Stskeeps: will come back to me whenever it needs to Apr 27 05:41:59 and redundancy is the opposite of efficiency :) Apr 27 05:41:59 k Apr 27 05:42:02 Stskeeps: if not, it means it wasn't important Apr 27 05:42:16 Macer: it makes it redundant *for you* Apr 27 05:42:21 anyways. my son won't go to sleep so i think i'm going to hit him over the head with something Apr 27 05:42:31 and please note that I talk about laptop, not netbook Apr 27 05:42:37 crashanddie: i would say the typical macbook is a "gadget" ;) Apr 27 05:42:38 Macer: JD Apr 27 05:42:43 or a netbook ;) Apr 27 05:42:51 Macer: Jack Daniels Apr 27 05:42:53 works everytime Apr 27 05:42:56 hahaha Apr 27 05:43:00 and doesn't leave marks? Apr 27 05:43:02 :) Apr 27 05:43:08 jack daniels? serious? Apr 27 05:43:11 well, only after 20 years Apr 27 05:43:12 thats just awful Apr 27 05:43:20 sulx: that's why you give it to the kids Apr 27 05:43:34 i would figure southern comfort would be easier Apr 27 05:43:39 it's sweeter :) Apr 27 05:43:45 so they won't think drinking never again...good idea Apr 27 05:43:47 sod it, just go for absynth Apr 27 05:43:53 Stskeeps: ping Apr 27 05:43:53 HAHAHA Apr 27 05:43:56 they love playing with matches and having the sugar melt Apr 27 05:44:00 where do i get a meego x86 rootfs? Apr 27 05:44:04 crashanddie: hell no. then he'll be rolling around on the floor tripping Apr 27 05:44:09 i just need something w/ a build toolchain Apr 27 05:44:12 so i can use rpm Apr 27 05:44:14 anyways. let me go force him to sleep Apr 27 05:44:17 (or yum, i don't care) Apr 27 05:44:31 Macer: I've hardly ever seen anyone trip due to absynth, that's more of a myth than anything else Apr 27 05:44:34 timeless_mbp: wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment has links for a 'developer' image Apr 27 05:44:43 Macer: take care Apr 27 05:44:44 crashanddie: yeah. i've never had it tbh Apr 27 05:44:45 (doesn't boot, just for chroot) Apr 27 05:44:46 :) Apr 27 05:44:59 crashanddie: i'm going to track down a way to get cups working on my n900 Apr 27 05:45:01 :) Apr 27 05:45:13 after i choke my child to sleep Apr 27 05:45:16 n-joy Apr 27 05:45:27 Stskeeps: if it does, i'm blind Apr 27 05:45:32 please help a poor blind man Apr 27 05:45:39 heh... name for the new MeeGo device from nokia: nJoy Apr 27 05:45:57 timeless_mbp: Download MeeGo development images for MeeGo X86 and MeeGo ARM and bzip2 -d them (they are 3GB loopback images) Apr 27 05:46:06 crashanddie: MeeGo nJoy? Apr 27 05:46:07 :P Apr 27 05:46:23 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/images/ ? Apr 27 05:46:30 timeless_mbp: no, look at the links in that sentence Apr 27 05:46:31 :P Apr 27 05:46:37 Stskeeps: nJoy MeeGo? Apr 27 05:46:49 crashanddie: never! Apr 27 05:46:49 :P Apr 27 05:47:01 * timeless_mbp wonders how to loopback mount w/o being root Apr 27 05:47:19 sigh Apr 27 05:47:19 :P Apr 27 05:47:23 Stskeeps: nJoy, iFarce and eCock. The 3 new devices from Nokia, Apple and Samsung, proudly supported by Microsoft. Apr 27 05:47:35 2% [> ] 3,005,730 300K/s eta 8m 56s Apr 27 05:47:52 timeless_mbp: it's a ext3 filesystem, find some way to extract it i guess :P Apr 27 05:48:03 * Stskeeps goes get breakfast Apr 27 05:48:13 ntmou <-- loopback mount without root Apr 27 05:48:34 ntrootmou <-- loopback mount with root Apr 27 05:48:57 or otmountro Apr 27 05:49:24 or tontmouro Apr 27 05:49:33 ~scramble mountroot Apr 27 05:49:34 moutoront Apr 27 05:49:35 are these real? Apr 27 05:50:01 * timeless_mbp kicks crashanddie for messing with a blind guy Apr 27 05:50:22 :D Apr 27 05:52:37 ~seen arif_ Apr 27 05:52:40 arif_ was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23d 17h 57m 32s ago, saying: 'they're not exactly the same are they?'. Apr 27 05:52:55 * timeless_mbp sighs Apr 27 05:53:05 for a platform that pretends to believe in tools Apr 27 05:53:13 *nix doesn't seem to believe in userspace Apr 27 05:53:27 timeless_mbp: i never understood why chroot requires root Apr 27 05:53:35 there should be an extN to cpio app Apr 27 05:53:58 Stskeeps: the problem is that *nix is stupid Apr 27 05:54:06 and there's one file system for the entire computer Apr 27 05:54:11 instead of one file system per user Apr 27 05:54:23 (by file system, i mean the presentation starting from /) Apr 27 05:54:34 thus, if you can mount a file system which has an app marked suid Apr 27 05:54:40 you can run it and you're root Apr 27 05:54:50 anyway, that's why 'mount' in the most basic form is a root priv Apr 27 05:54:56 (there are other related issues) Apr 27 05:55:15 if i could hardlink 'su' into my chroot filesystem Apr 27 05:55:30 and if 'su' looked at *my* /etc/passwd, instead of the system's /etc/passwd Apr 27 05:55:38 then i could become root by using 'su' :) Apr 27 05:56:28 Besides the fact you have to be root to chroot Apr 27 05:57:08 Unless I'm not understanding what your saying correctly :P Apr 27 05:57:15 Termana: that's kinda a stupid explanation for: Apr 27 05:57:23 timeless_mbp: i never understood why chroot requires root Apr 27 05:57:47 'you have to be root to chroot because chroot requires root' Apr 27 05:57:49 no really? Apr 27 05:57:50 Oh i see :P Nevermind me heh Apr 27 05:58:20 Stskeeps: perhaps a better example Apr 27 05:58:30 root user mounts a cdrom with a live cd Apr 27 05:58:39 yeah, i see the flaws :P Apr 27 05:58:45 clever user knows the password from the live cd :) Apr 27 05:59:09 Stskeeps: chroot(2) requires CAP_SYS_CHROOT Apr 27 05:59:15 which is usually available to root Apr 27 05:59:21 (on Linux) Apr 27 05:59:24 Corsac: that doesn't answer the question Apr 27 05:59:35 none of this justifies not being able to convert a file system into a cpio archive Apr 27 05:59:37 Corsac: my question was -why- Apr 27 05:59:37 :P Apr 27 05:59:44 (w/o 'mount') Apr 27 06:00:06 I only answered to “why does chroot requires root” in fact, I didn't scroll up more in the backlog, sorry :) Apr 27 06:00:29 Corsac: given that Termana already got slapped w/in the last screen] Apr 27 06:00:34 you deserve a double trouting Apr 27 06:01:05 shh timeless_mbp :P I thought you were planning to try doing what you descibed which is why I said what I said :P Apr 27 06:01:22 Termana: do what? Apr 27 06:01:25 timeless_mbp: I love trout at breakfast Apr 27 06:01:26 i still have a problem Apr 27 06:01:37 * timeless_mbp slaps Corsac with a rotting trout Apr 27 06:01:45 thanks Apr 27 06:01:46 * timeless_mbp slaps Corsac with an infected trout Apr 27 06:02:03 * timeless_mbp quickly discards both in the helsinki water system Apr 27 06:02:10 (no one will notice!) Apr 27 06:02:13 timeless_mbp: The whole try to become root by symlinking su to a chrooted system. Which is why I said - "besides the fact you need root to do chroot" Apr 27 06:03:06 Termana: you should have said that you can't hardlink w/o su :) Apr 27 06:03:53 besides, my livecd example is better Apr 27 06:04:22 timeless_mbp: btw, rpm has a --install-root setting, so you can download it from your normal distribution Apr 27 06:04:47 Stskeeps: afaict it doesn't work Apr 27 06:05:02 it still requires you to be root Apr 27 06:05:18 RPM version 4.4.2.3 Apr 27 06:05:25 timeless_mbp: maybe we should step back and ask what your use case is Apr 27 06:05:36 1. i'm *NOT* root Apr 27 06:05:42 2. i want to xref meego Apr 27 06:05:47 3. see 1 Apr 27 06:05:49 I don't even have a --install-root on rpm 4.7.2.1 ¬¬ Apr 27 06:05:51 rpm2cpio X | cpio id Apr 27 06:05:54 rpm2cpio X | cpio -id Apr 27 06:06:04 (extract a rpm package) Apr 27 06:06:07 4. i do not have a complete build environment Apr 27 06:06:10 (yup) Apr 27 06:06:11 5. i do not have 'xz' Apr 27 06:06:24 what distribution are you on? Apr 27 06:06:24 5 is the current problem, as various rpm's use it for their sources Apr 27 06:06:37 CentOS release 5.4 (Final) Apr 27 06:06:55 hmhm, can't you build/install xz from source and put it in a local path? (I know it's a bit ugly, but…) Apr 27 06:06:56 Stskeeps: i've already used rpmbuild Apr 27 06:06:57 6. Use a decent distro and you'll be fine Apr 27 06:07:05 Termana: see 1? Apr 27 06:07:09 (heck, see 3?) Apr 27 06:07:27 timeless_mbp: then why are you running it on a machine you don't have root on? :P Apr 27 06:07:31 Yeah, but did YOU see 6? Apr 27 06:07:32 (one more step back..) Apr 27 06:07:32 ... Apr 27 06:07:39 Stskeeps: see 3, I guess ;p Apr 27 06:07:40 why the **** Apr 27 06:07:43 should i have to be root? Apr 27 06:07:47 i'm a user Apr 27 06:07:51 i want to index cr*p Apr 27 06:07:55 timeless_mbp: and there's no way you could ask an admin to install xz for you? Apr 27 06:07:56 what part of that requires root Apr 27 06:07:58 well, because your local admin isn't doing his job and providing you the tools you need Apr 27 06:08:02 Corsac: i'd have to find the admin Apr 27 06:08:11 which is difficult Apr 27 06:08:17 plus, imagine a box w/ 1000 users Apr 27 06:08:17 timeless_mbp: afaiui, the only part requiring root is the xz part Apr 27 06:08:20 timeless_mbp: Why not boot from a livecd? Apr 27 06:08:27 err Apr 27 06:08:27 Termana: the box is in a cloud Apr 27 06:08:35 where the **** do you expect me to ... Apr 27 06:08:37 see 3 Apr 27 06:08:37 see 1 Apr 27 06:08:42 timeless_mbp: why not use a local machine Apr 27 06:08:51 hrm, because my mac doesn't have enough ram? Apr 27 06:08:53 timeless_mbp: calm down, it isn't our fault that you have a setup that isn't set up for the purpose you have Apr 27 06:08:53 or power Apr 27 06:08:58 timeless_mbp: or maybe you can do the extract part on another box where xz is installed, but that would mean a lot of network traffic if you want to do that regularly Apr 27 06:09:07 Corsac: i do Apr 27 06:09:09 obviously Apr 27 06:09:14 the goal of an indexer is to index things Apr 27 06:09:22 as regularly as necessary Apr 27 06:09:25 hmmh, but Apr 27 06:09:27 preferably in an *automated* fassion Apr 27 06:09:29 timeless_mbp: get a tar.gz of a fedora filesystem and use fakechroot Apr 27 06:09:32 without constant admin interaction Apr 27 06:09:42 currently you “send” the rpms automagically ? Apr 27 06:09:48 Stskeeps: why can't i convert this stupid ext3 into a tgz? Apr 27 06:09:51 they are downloaded from the cloud machine? Apr 27 06:09:59 Corsac: the cloud machine does all the work Apr 27 06:10:06 it uses a script to calculate the rpm's to get Apr 27 06:10:06 timeless_mbp: the second option is asking someone nice to make a tar.gz variant for you Apr 27 06:10:09 it downloads them Apr 27 06:10:10 timeless_mbp: which is very easy Apr 27 06:10:17 heh :P Apr 27 06:10:19 Stskeeps: could i please have a tgz? Apr 27 06:10:26 timeless_mbp: at the point the image was released, ext3 was the only option Apr 27 06:10:27 and a pony Apr 27 06:10:33 i don't need the pony Apr 27 06:10:37 timeless_mbp: if i don't hear any moaning about not being root afterwards, yes :P Apr 27 06:10:50 * Stskeeps goes start a build Apr 27 06:10:50 but if including a pony in the request then sure, i'll take the pony Apr 27 06:11:06 s/then/makes it happen then/ Apr 27 06:11:06 timeless_mbp meant: but if including a pony in the request makes it happen then sure, i'll take the pony Apr 27 06:11:18 * timeless_mbp can always give the pony to someone else Apr 27 06:11:19 facebook uses jabber? Apr 27 06:11:28 yes Apr 27 06:11:28 DENNNNNIIIED - you can't even get a box with root access, how can we trust you to look after a pony Apr 27 06:11:34 do they do s2s? Apr 27 06:11:41 don't think so Apr 27 06:11:45 damn Apr 27 06:11:48 fwiw, i've already built sb2 in this box Apr 27 06:11:54 which is why i'm at "i need a rootfs" Apr 27 06:12:08 what would the fb contact look like? Apr 27 06:12:12 devel-ia32 OK, timeless_mbp? Apr 27 06:12:16 sure Apr 27 06:12:23 presumably that's roughly what i already downloaded? Apr 27 06:12:25 name@chat.facebook.com? Apr 27 06:12:39 timeless_mbp: roughly Apr 27 06:12:55 Mace_N900: various clients already allow you to “create” a facebook account Apr 27 06:13:00 timeless_mbp: if you did have root, generating such an image would be a matter of: [root@ideapad mic2]# mic-image-creator -f fs -c devel-ia32.ks Apr 27 06:13:16 (which is just a jabber account connecting to the correct server with the correct username) so you might want to look at them to see it Apr 27 06:13:17 i dont want one. but i want the s2s xmpp Apr 27 06:13:17 yeah, but… see 1 :) Apr 27 06:13:33 to chat with fb people Apr 27 06:13:44 timeless_mbp: considering to buy a dedi might be useful :P Apr 27 06:13:44 fwiw, i think gnomevfs and gio have claimed they'd "solve" this problem Apr 27 06:13:55 Mace_N900: I don't think it'll work but if you suceed, keep me posted :) Apr 27 06:13:58 Stskeeps: honestly, i don't want to admin a box Apr 27 06:14:02 haha. ok Apr 27 06:14:04 i don't want to be responsible for security Apr 27 06:14:05 will do Apr 27 06:14:06 or bandwidth Apr 27 06:14:11 i bet it works Apr 27 06:14:12 or hardware maintenance Apr 27 06:14:13 I definitely agree timeless_mbp Apr 27 06:14:17 i'm a *dev*, not an admin Apr 27 06:14:25 gtalk s2s works Apr 27 06:14:29 i should not be able to screw up my host Apr 27 06:14:34 nor should i be responsible for securing it Apr 27 06:14:47 your case is a bit special, since you want to index, not develop Apr 27 06:14:47 :P Apr 27 06:14:58 so Apr 27 06:15:02 arguably a dev shouldn't need to be root Apr 27 06:15:07 definitely Apr 27 06:15:14 but he should have an admin handy Apr 27 06:15:16 there's very little distinction between my use case and a dev's Apr 27 06:15:21 Corsac: um Apr 27 06:15:27 imagine 10,000 college students on a box Apr 27 06:15:37 should they have an admin 'handy' Apr 27 06:15:41 hahaha Apr 27 06:15:42 that setup is actually kinda rare these days Apr 27 06:15:45 timeless_mbp: I used to work in an IT departement, btw Apr 27 06:15:45 so they can all pester the admin for buggy tools? Apr 27 06:15:54 Stskeeps: it wasn't rare when i was in college Apr 27 06:15:59 our uni cluster was largely unused Apr 27 06:16:08 yes, but it wasn't in the times of fast laptops Apr 27 06:16:08 :P Apr 27 06:16:14 Stskeeps: our clusters were heavily used in 2002 Apr 27 06:16:23 timeless_mbp: usually the “handy admin” is nicely^Whandled with a request tracker or something Apr 27 06:16:39 Corsac: i'd hope you'd reject most of the requests here Apr 27 06:16:46 sure Apr 27 06:16:48 "i want to run mic-image-creator" Apr 27 06:16:51 but that's only because I'm a bofh Apr 27 06:17:01 nowadays it's not really processing power but electricy and bandwith which matter most Apr 27 06:17:04 (mic does loopback mounts, and runs arbitrary code, often) Apr 27 06:17:17 for me, what matters is: Apr 27 06:17:21 a. bandwidth Apr 27 06:17:24 b. ram Apr 27 06:17:25 timeless_mbp: but I would have accepted to install xz, maybe Apr 27 06:17:41 Corsac: i'd get tired of bugging you each week that another stupid package requires another stupid tool Apr 27 06:17:47 i can build xz myself Apr 27 06:17:55 after all, i've already built auto* and a few others Apr 27 06:18:03 why didn't you build rpm then? Apr 27 06:18:03 :P Apr 27 06:18:08 i have rpm! Apr 27 06:18:11 it's a centos box! Apr 27 06:18:14 ehaha Apr 27 06:18:16 not one with xz support Apr 27 06:18:22 (it looks like) Apr 27 06:18:27 true Apr 27 06:18:33 but afaict rpm doesn't do the xz Apr 27 06:18:37 it contracts out to 'xz' Apr 27 06:18:38 yes it does Apr 27 06:18:43 well, it needs a setup Apr 27 06:18:48 tell the admin to make you a centos zone in opensolarus Apr 27 06:18:49 ... Apr 27 06:18:49 xz is lzma, isn't it? Apr 27 06:19:04 ok, anyway I'm kind of sure that's not timeless_mbp Apr 27 06:19:05 :) Apr 27 06:19:08 so let's get back to ponies Apr 27 06:19:21 OMG PONIES Apr 27 06:19:28 /_mbp/_mbp's point/ btw Apr 27 06:20:06 uhm, is the advanced geocaching tool supposed to show anything other then the map? i made an account and put it into the options. but if I go to search geocaches the list is empty no matter if or what I type in. Apr 27 06:20:34 im pretty sure there is a zone for rhel/centos Apr 27 06:20:39 timeless_mbp: 219/226 on the image and then i'm uploading Apr 27 06:20:40 /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.91621:/bin/gzip -dc '/data/meego.com/SOURCES/paps-0.6.8.tar.gz' | tar -xf - Apr 27 06:20:41 timeless_mbp: anyway, isn't there a meego/maemo/... community-administred server which would help in your case? (though it wouldn't fix the parts where you need admin rights which you don't want) Apr 27 06:20:54 Corsac: doubtful Apr 27 06:21:06 and i don't want to have to bother them constantly either Apr 27 06:21:22 it's generally easier for me to run mxr on a box which isn't managed by a network starved system Apr 27 06:21:32 comparing reliability of mxr.maemo.org w/ *.maemo.org Apr 27 06:21:39 i'm pretty sure mxr.maemo.org worked better Apr 27 06:21:44 mxr.maemo.org is dreamhost Apr 27 06:21:48 mxr.moego.org is e2 Apr 27 06:22:00 maego ? Apr 27 06:22:01 ec2 Apr 27 06:22:04 moego Apr 27 06:22:14 moego is a staging name Apr 27 06:22:21 i'm supposed to get a cname for mxr.meego.com Apr 27 06:22:26 ok Apr 27 06:22:31 but i can't remember the person i need to talk to about it Apr 27 06:23:00 the admin (tm) Apr 27 06:23:09 haha Apr 27 06:23:14 the Almighty Administrator Apr 27 06:23:25 cape and tights? Apr 27 06:23:34 timeless_mbp: so in the end, what you say is that it's easier to work on .deb than on .rpm? Apr 27 06:23:37 * Corsac runs Apr 27 06:23:45 well, deb is ar x Apr 27 06:23:51 moe? heh Apr 27 06:24:05 Stskeeps: usually you tar xf the data.tar.gz at one point ;p Apr 27 06:24:14 (or you dpkg --extract if you have dpkg) Apr 27 06:24:18 Corsac: not really Apr 27 06:24:25 timeless_mbp: ~20 mins Apr 27 06:24:30 in theory rpm is going to give me a better source index Apr 27 06:24:39 (and dpkg is supposed to be able to use bz2/lzma at one point) Apr 27 06:24:40 w/ debs, i had no way of knowing how to apply patches Apr 27 06:24:48 in theory rpmbuild will guarantee patch application Apr 27 06:24:50 well, I think it's already read, the infrastructure is not :) Apr 27 06:24:53 whereas w/ apt 'forget about it' Apr 27 06:25:01 and deb is adding some new quilt formats Apr 27 06:25:09 which is roughly equivalent to rpm adding xz Apr 27 06:25:13 how can i used my 2nd cam on my N900? Apr 27 06:25:35 yes, new sources format would have helped for the patches, in that case Apr 27 06:25:36 the rpm bit itself is actually trivial, it's the contained crud that's painful Apr 27 06:25:51 k9: I heard that only the pre-production devices had the camera working Apr 27 06:25:52 deb is the same, the deb bit itself is trivial Apr 27 06:25:59 well, it's just because they added compression formats too, which are used in meego Apr 27 06:26:01 k9: however, having a pre-prod device, I never got it working Apr 27 06:26:17 old rpms used gz or bz2 I guess? Apr 27 06:26:21 yes Apr 27 06:26:24 (both) Apr 27 06:26:37 and some used something else Apr 27 06:26:39 (.Z?) Apr 27 06:26:45 Good morning Apr 27 06:26:51 I guess it's another lzma based one Apr 27 06:27:10 k9: try the mirror app Apr 27 06:27:33 with the kind of use i put on my n900... my G1 would have lasted an hour Apr 27 06:29:57 crashanddie: tnx men....and also is there a feature where i can put a timer on my camera? Apr 27 06:30:02 fwiw, building 'xz' requires 'autopoint' Apr 27 06:30:06 which is a tool i've never heard of Apr 27 06:30:18 hmmh, it's in cvs iirc Apr 27 06:30:22 k9: also, apparently it works if you do a gtalk call from computer to N900 Apr 27 06:30:29 crashanddie: a selftimer feature would be a great apps Apr 27 06:30:49 k9: however, the remote computer only works if made from Windows (apparently). I never got it work from OSX Apr 27 06:30:50 mhmh, not cvs :) Apr 27 06:31:00 but it does depend on cvs here Apr 27 06:31:07 Description: The autopoint program from GNU gettext Apr 27 06:31:28 k9: what do you mean? Apr 27 06:31:31 well, that was an obvious package! Apr 27 06:31:39 k9: an app that takes pictures on the front-facing camera every x seconds? Apr 27 06:32:07 timeless_mbp: iirc it was split recently from the cvs package Apr 27 06:32:10 (in debian I mean) Apr 27 06:32:25 crashanddie: in the back camera i mean, is there a feature a selftimer for the camera Apr 27 06:32:28 that's why nobody knows it, too Apr 27 06:32:45 k9: not as far as I'm aware Apr 27 06:32:52 mirror seems to works fine here Apr 27 06:33:03 to be fair, the rpm has a proper dependency to gettext Apr 27 06:33:09 there's a strange looking guy in it, at least Apr 27 06:33:12 hm Apr 27 06:33:18 he doesn't seem too awake Apr 27 06:33:30 although, i question the dependency to cvs given that it has a dependency to gettext Apr 27 06:33:32 crashanddie: i hope you guys develop such feature for it....N900 rules! Apr 27 06:33:34 and he has a trout on the head Apr 27 06:33:36 nokia must have a different idea about what an alarm to wake up is Apr 27 06:33:50 Mace_N900: eh? Apr 27 06:33:53 their alarm tones would put me into REM Apr 27 06:33:59 Mace_N900: if you aren't using my strings, you're in trouble :) Apr 27 06:34:00 timeless_mbp: not strong enough Apr 27 06:34:03 haha Apr 27 06:34:09 haha Apr 27 06:34:20 their alarm tones are.... soothing Apr 27 06:34:31 yep Apr 27 06:34:43 * timeless_mbp goes to update the l10n packages Apr 27 06:34:45 alarms are meant to be discomforting Apr 27 06:34:46 the ringtones too Apr 27 06:34:51 timeless_mbp: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=572481 if that can help you Apr 27 06:35:00 ring tones i understand Apr 27 06:35:04 (sorry I only know about debian sources of information, which might not be helpful) Apr 27 06:35:05 Mace_N900: I'm using an alarm app on my mbp, because the N900 doesn't wake me up Apr 27 06:35:18 but alarms that put you to sleep? Apr 27 06:35:20 heh Apr 27 06:35:25 Corsac: interesting Apr 27 06:35:30 plus the app actually requires me to do math before it turns it off permanently, Apr 27 06:35:34 i just used an mp3 Apr 27 06:35:37 it doesn't look like redhat has switched yet Apr 27 06:35:42 "16 * 4" Apr 27 06:36:11 can some help me install the maemo 5 sdk? http://pastie.org/936804 Apr 27 06:36:18 timeless_mbp: ok so looking at the readme file, the dependency in debian is just for transition Apr 27 06:36:34 timeless_mbp: because autopoint was provided in the cvs package before, or something (wtf?) Apr 27 06:37:07 fwiw, the time it takes for me to build any one auto tool is prohibitively expensive Apr 27 06:37:11 trying to install it on a fedora 12 x65 Apr 27 06:37:13 *64 Apr 27 06:37:22 which is one of the reasons i don't want to build a world on this box Apr 27 06:37:23 ACTION  Apr 27 06:37:50 XS3: specify the user you want to install to Apr 27 06:38:04 what do you mean,user? Apr 27 06:38:18 heck, forget building, just running through 'configure' is incredibly slow Apr 27 06:38:20 E: User 'None' not found with 'getent passwd None' command. Apr 27 06:38:40 so how should i execute the python script? Apr 27 06:38:46 or should i make changes to it? Apr 27 06:39:16 * timeless_mbp sighs Apr 27 06:39:24 i'm also running a git->hg conversion Apr 27 06:39:38 it's managed to process 28hrs of data in the last few hours Apr 27 06:39:46 crashanddie: so N900 cannot support video calls Apr 27 06:39:57 which is well… not wonderful, when you consider that it's sitting @july 23, 2009 Apr 27 06:40:02 and we're somewhere in 2010 Apr 27 06:40:16 k9: not over 3G, but through GTalk it works (when computer initiates call) Apr 27 06:40:38 How to continous backtrace using gdb , Apr 27 06:40:48 namus: eh? Apr 27 06:40:50 bt 10000 Apr 27 06:41:09 (w/ a terminal that has 10000 rows) Apr 27 06:42:14 set logging on trouc.txt might help too :) Apr 27 06:42:58 timeless_mbp,cant we get backtrace ,non-interactively , ie., backtrace to be diplayed along with UI flow Apr 27 06:43:11 ?????? Apr 27 06:43:41 if your question can be written in a native language which someone here can speak, perhaps you should find a translator Apr 27 06:43:49 because your question was garbled in your translation Apr 27 06:44:34 perhaps you should start over and describe what you're doing Apr 27 06:44:45 timeless_mbp: do you speak swedish? Apr 27 06:44:57 crashanddie: no, but frals does :) Apr 27 06:45:08 do you want a function call trace, so that you can see each function that's entered/exited while a program runs? Apr 27 06:45:19 if so, dtrace or a competitor is what you want, not gdb Apr 27 06:46:16 if you have a core dump from which you want a stack trace, then, yes, gdb can take orders via a commandline argument Apr 27 06:46:27 namus: timeless_mbp ar en skitstovel, bara forklara ditt problemme fulut Apr 27 06:46:53 * crashanddie has no idea if that was even close to being correct Apr 27 06:47:24 frals: was that good? Apr 27 06:47:28 crashanddie: what makes you think namus speaks swedish? :) Apr 27 06:47:40 because his ISP is swedish Apr 27 06:47:41 i want to see each function & each thread that's entered/exited while a program runs Apr 27 06:47:50 i dont know swedish Apr 27 06:47:55 damnit Apr 27 06:47:59 do you live in sweden? Apr 27 06:48:07 crashanddie: his language patterns seem to be indian Apr 27 06:48:12 (unless they're chinese) Apr 27 06:48:15 no , iam from India Apr 27 06:48:20 impressive Apr 27 06:48:30 nice guess Apr 27 06:48:41 Corsac: each group makes a set of errors Apr 27 06:48:43 ah crap, I copied the wrong line when I did the /whois, I looked at dvoid_'s address xd Apr 27 06:48:58 you can usually distinguish between indian, chinese, and latin american Apr 27 06:49:07 and russian Apr 27 06:49:16 and french/spanish/italian Apr 27 06:49:23 who are nearly in the same group as latin american Apr 27 06:49:27 :) Apr 27 06:49:42 germans also make a distinct set of errors fwiw Apr 27 06:49:55 (as do finns) Apr 27 06:50:03 and americans Apr 27 06:50:17 finns tend to ask "why is your software broken, the iPhone looks better, you should make it look like the iPhone" Apr 27 06:50:22 who, along with any native english speakers, are the only ones who manage to mix up affet and effet Apr 27 06:50:27 s/effet/effect/ Apr 27 06:50:27 crashanddie meant: who, along with any native english speakers, are the only ones who manage to mix up affet and effect Apr 27 06:50:32 a finn complained about: http://mxr.moego.org/finnish-banks.html Apr 27 06:50:59 with some apologies to some finns here, Apr 27 06:51:03 Finns are IDIOTS Apr 27 06:51:13 hmhm, midori doesn't resolve international hostname Apr 27 06:51:14 crap Apr 27 06:51:25 they make American rednecks seem well traveled Apr 27 06:51:32 timeless_mbp: finns are pretty much the european rednecks Apr 27 06:51:34 ahha Apr 27 06:51:42 and growing up, being called a redneck was a grave insult Apr 27 06:52:05 it still is Apr 27 06:52:18 but now we'd rather say hillbilly or billy bob Apr 27 06:52:19 to me, it's lost its insult value having lived here Apr 27 06:52:34 it's much more insulting to think "oh, he's a finn" Apr 27 06:52:53 finns seem to think: Apr 27 06:53:03 "it's ok to schedule meetings so there's no time for lunch" Apr 27 06:53:10 "our meeting is more important than anything else in the world" Apr 27 06:53:23 "it's ok to schedule a meeting in conflict with an *ALL* hands" Apr 27 06:53:26 erhm, that's just business, timeless_mbp ;) Apr 27 06:53:46 oh, and "it's ok to have multiple distinct ALL hands" Apr 27 06:53:50 man, that's one bitter yankee ;( Apr 27 06:53:53 since after all, "ALL" doesn't mean "ALL" Apr 27 06:54:00 it means … well, something else, i guess? Apr 27 06:54:17 timeless_mbp: scandinavian work culture is fun Apr 27 06:54:17 :P Apr 27 06:54:20 flux: sorry, i dealt with two or three idiotic finns between friday and monday Apr 27 06:54:29 that's 2 more than my weekend quota Apr 27 06:54:47 flux: he's jewish, he's still blowing off steam from a few generations ago. Apr 27 06:54:47 i'm not paid enough to deal with them Apr 27 06:55:19 * Stskeeps ponders if this convo is turning a bit toxic Apr 27 06:55:30 probably Apr 27 06:55:52 * timeless_mbp goes to a meeting Apr 27 06:55:53 ok, time to get to work then :) Apr 27 06:55:54 back to the business of the day Apr 27 06:56:34 timeless: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/devel-ia32-201004270212.tar.gz Apr 27 06:56:44 too late Apr 27 06:56:45 he elft Apr 27 06:57:15 his user is still here :P Apr 27 07:13:45 anyone here know the greasemonkey packager? Apr 27 07:13:57 timeless: got my URL from above Apr 27 07:13:58 ? Apr 27 07:14:41 i'll grab it from the logs when i arrive somewhere Apr 27 07:23:38 But NPR reports that this good news may have a surprising downside: cleaner air might actually intensify global warming. One benefit of sulfates is that they've been helpfully blocking sunlight from striking the Earth for many decades, by brightening clouds and expanding their coverage Apr 27 07:23:51 And good morning to you all. Apr 27 07:28:30 wtf Apr 27 07:29:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKL_EpnSp8 Apr 27 07:32:14 RST38h: good morning to you too Apr 27 07:32:23 * timeless_mbp woke up too early today Apr 27 07:32:28 morning shouldn't be before noon Apr 27 07:32:42 good morrow all Apr 27 07:36:22 Hi. I'm looking for screen command line tool. Do the package exists ? I can't find it . Thx Apr 27 07:41:10 * RST38h watches morning sulfates from the panoramic window Apr 27 07:44:58 yes hello Apr 27 07:58:50 I tohught I might make a small application in Qt, but how is it now, can I make Qt apps that can actually be used on the device? Apr 27 08:22:25 hmm Apr 27 08:24:37 morning Apr 27 08:26:14 mece, i'd wait until pr1.2 before trying to get apps to the device Apr 27 08:28:46 morning Apr 27 08:29:27 mece: if they are compiled against 1.1.1 sure Apr 27 08:29:33 so pr1.1.5 is next unknown? Apr 27 08:29:52 hrw: something like that ;) Apr 27 08:30:05 mece: did you get that packaging working for HOMM2? Apr 27 08:30:27 zokier: Wait for pr 1.2? Apr 27 08:30:35 that's like waiting for godot - innit? Apr 27 08:30:36 if your qt dependencies are set to qt4.5 it should work if your program works with qt4.5 Apr 27 08:30:54 tybollt: hurd Apr 27 08:30:59 Scelt, yep Apr 27 08:31:16 mece: in devel? Apr 27 08:31:26 Scelt, yep Apr 27 08:31:28 I solidly believe DNF will be released prior to PR1.2 Apr 27 08:31:39 Scelt, if you don't have data, you can download the demodata package. Apr 27 08:31:57 mece: yeah. gotta check it at home Apr 27 08:31:59 tybollt, I've preordered DNF Apr 27 08:32:01 mece: awesome work Apr 27 08:32:03 tybollt: is that a reasonable guess? Apr 27 08:32:38 mece: :D Apr 27 08:32:48 mece: what was the package name again? Apr 27 08:33:10 mece: got it, fheroes2 Apr 27 08:33:18 Scelt, it's not without issues. Here's the thread. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50851 The latest should work pretty well though. Apr 27 08:33:49 hey howcome some apps' icon become visible right away, while mine demands a reboot, or at least some major event to become visible? Apr 27 08:34:09 mece: are you from Turku or Maarianhamina? Apr 27 08:34:18 mece: I have the same issue, dunno why Apr 27 08:34:19 Scelt, Turku. Where'd you get Mariehamn? Apr 27 08:34:29 mece [~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi] Apr 27 08:34:31 :) Apr 27 08:34:56 Scelt, lol it's the computer's name. It was used on some åland project before I had it apparently Apr 27 08:35:14 mece: I dont know if that depends on trackerd, its a 50:50 chance I get a blue box or an icon right away Apr 27 08:35:33 damn my 3G worked fast Apr 27 08:35:46 downloaded the 22 Mt fheroes2-data in 20 seconds or so Apr 27 08:35:52 MB Apr 27 08:36:47 wow Apr 27 08:37:07 Scelt: simple math 22*800/756~~25 Apr 27 08:37:48 chem|st, I tried some gtk-icon-refresh or something like that in the postinst, but it did nothing :/ Apr 27 08:37:50 my provider is stuck with 352 or something Apr 27 08:38:09 chem|st: yeah but it's rare that it downloads so fast Apr 27 08:38:42 Scelt: the speed was never an issue the lag was for me Apr 27 08:42:32 mece: I guess there is something else to trigger than gtk-update-icon-cache Apr 27 08:42:52 gtk-update-icon-cache is a null-oop Apr 27 08:42:53 op Apr 27 08:45:43 mece: the wiki says run gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor Apr 27 08:46:25 in your postinst, if that does nothing look for a bug Apr 27 08:46:52 mece: awesome game! Apr 27 08:47:00 someone remember page with maemosdk squeeze update instructions? Apr 27 08:49:03 umm, wtf happened to my microb :S Apr 27 08:49:31 urlbar only has url, no buttons :O Apr 27 08:49:39 that's correct Apr 27 08:49:40 hrw: whats your problem? Apr 27 08:49:41 it's urlbar Apr 27 08:49:57 if it was supposed to have buttons it would be called buttonbar Apr 27 08:50:00 or urlbuttonbar Apr 27 08:50:17 hrw: the only issue I had was that xephyr uses different options Apr 27 08:50:48 chem|st: ok, so you do not know what I want Apr 27 08:52:00 hrw: well... last time I had it running was right after upgrades, and yes Idk ;) Apr 27 08:52:22 chem|st: armel target do not use xephyr at all Apr 27 08:53:04 hrw: upgrade on armel ran through without any faults Apr 27 08:53:09 i c Apr 27 08:53:28 no problem anymore, restarting microb made button reappear Apr 27 08:53:39 squidd: I got same today Apr 27 08:53:47 but somehow I am still missing somthing as some selfcompiled libs do not work properly yet Apr 27 08:54:28 hrw: omg, must be a sign. maybe we will get pr1.2 today :O Apr 27 08:54:39 squidd: pr1.2 will be at 12 november Apr 27 08:54:51 :( Apr 27 08:55:14 squidd: or we will get pr1.1.5 + bonus time travel to two weeks ago Apr 27 08:55:25 :D Apr 27 08:55:52 hrw: I thought it was on 01/04.... Apr 27 08:57:41 ~seen noobmonk3y Apr 27 08:57:43 noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@host86-178-50-44.range86-178.btcentralplus.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11h 15m 39s ago, saying: 'healthcheck is back up and working again!'. Apr 27 08:58:37 I'm just craptacularly lazy. I think I'll go with pyqt instead. Don't feel like fighting with c++ today. Apr 27 08:59:58 hrw: will there be movies on the time travel? Apr 27 09:01:18 pyside or pyqt4? Apr 27 09:04:57 I hate sbox Apr 27 09:17:15 moo wazd Apr 27 09:19:25 RST38h: heya :) Apr 27 09:19:41 RST38h: I'm going to visit SPB Fruct thing :) Apr 27 09:21:03 Hi ! Apr 27 09:21:38 Khertan: hey there :) Apr 27 09:21:46 meh Apr 27 09:22:36 noobmonk3y: app manager read the icon file from the controle file Apr 27 09:22:50 wazd: Don't drink yourself to death =) Apr 27 09:24:07 RST38h: well, can't promise anything :P Apr 27 09:24:09 uhm, drinking yourself to death is kind of implied when living east of helsinki... ;P Apr 27 09:25:25 Morning, all Apr 27 09:25:38 Jaffa: heya Apr 27 09:25:57 die maemo die! Apr 27 09:26:14 ~curse sbox for being unusable shit Apr 27 09:26:15 long live maemo! Apr 27 09:26:15 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, sbox for being unusable shit ! Apr 27 09:27:49 How could you possibly wish that on someone Apr 27 09:27:52 :P Apr 27 09:29:47 hrw <--- really emotional about sb Apr 27 09:30:14 hrw: BTW, dpkg crashes in sb2 for unknown reason. Got Karmic with the latest (patched) kernel. Tried both lenny and etch tools Apr 27 09:30:34 RST38h: test if even simple binaries crash Apr 27 09:30:42 Sts: No, just dpkg Apr 27 09:30:55 Sts: I know of the NX bug, but have got the latest Ubuntu kernel Apr 27 09:31:16 Sts: Actually, dpkg -i crashes, just dpkg is fine =) Apr 27 09:31:31 dpkg is probably a host tool Apr 27 09:31:52 RST38h: I maintained one package for maemo5: mdbus2. today sbox died during rebuilding of newer version Apr 27 09:33:00 and I really do not like to need to run vm just to rebuild small pacakge. and no, I do not want sbox infected host system Apr 27 09:33:40 hrw: Why not move to sb2 though? Apr 27 09:35:58 RST38h: another ia32 binary only? Apr 27 09:36:35 hrw: prolly, although I do not know why it bothers you Apr 27 09:36:56 It installs from a repo like any normal Ubuntu app. Runs transparently, unlike sb1 Apr 27 09:40:26 tim e less Apr 27 09:50:10 feck Apr 27 09:50:20 are all the qt libs removed from extras? Apr 27 09:53:28 Morning, all Apr 27 09:53:41 morning ccooke Apr 27 09:57:46 * Khertan still doesn't understand the concept of qt Apr 27 09:58:06 Khertan: ? Apr 27 09:58:11 someone maybe can explain me how to implement an auto indent in a qtrichtext Apr 27 09:58:30 i mean ... i should trap text change slot Apr 27 09:59:16 but i didn't get the change Apr 27 09:59:24 i just know that changes happen Apr 27 09:59:33 it s a bit useless for my user Apr 27 09:59:34 it s a bit useless for my use Apr 27 10:03:19 ok ... i understand ... i need to subclass QTextEdit and his method keyPressEvent Apr 27 10:13:59 morning o/ Apr 27 10:18:15 morning d14 \o Apr 27 10:18:45 x) Apr 27 10:19:20 * d14 has day off Apr 27 10:19:27 \o/ Apr 27 10:19:39 MohammadAG: whats new? :) Apr 27 10:22:27 Hi. Please read the last post of this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=629652#post629652 Apr 27 10:22:37 Did I brick my device? Apr 27 10:24:02 The script says this is a safe way :/ Apr 27 10:24:38 well - the author wzs probably wrong Apr 27 10:24:55 reflash the phone in the normal way Apr 27 10:25:19 So my data is lost? Apr 27 10:25:59 no, probably not Apr 27 10:26:16 reflashing the root does not affect your data, which is on the mydocs and home partitions Apr 27 10:26:19 wait, doesn't reflashing clear out all data? Apr 27 10:26:24 no Apr 27 10:26:39 it only rewrites the root - unless you use the 'with mmc' flash image Apr 27 10:27:07 and you said "the normal" way. so the other way is the one with emmc? Apr 27 10:27:30 no - I mean with the flasher tool Apr 27 10:27:45 lol Apr 27 10:28:03 i just found that you can download not yet release image on tablets-dev Apr 27 10:28:04 huhu Apr 27 10:28:18 By the way, I am not sure which variant I have. Does it matter? Apr 27 10:28:55 of course it s not real images :) Apr 27 10:29:04 ~flashing Apr 27 10:29:05 from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Apr 27 10:29:18 Khertan, uh? at least there's nothing newer than 3.2010.02-8 on http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php Apr 27 10:29:40 no Apr 27 10:30:03 andre__: no of course there is nothing in the php list :) Apr 27 10:30:09 ah. hehe Apr 27 10:30:11 andre__, maybe he digged into the source Apr 27 10:30:17 ooh Apr 27 10:30:25 * MohammadAG does a wget -m Apr 27 10:30:41 andre__: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2010SE_10.2010.16-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Apr 27 10:30:50 it s look like you got an image Apr 27 10:30:51 whoah Apr 27 10:31:02 but it s just an html file content :) Apr 27 10:31:09 quite strange, moveroot.sh worked perfectly well for me (if it is the same script) Apr 27 10:31:29 andre__: with an error :) Apr 27 10:31:32 :( Apr 27 10:31:32 Warning: fopen(/var/tabletsdev/nokia_N900/downloads/RX-51_2010SE_10.2010.16-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin) [function.fopen]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /var/tabletsdev/nokia_N900.php on line 175
Apr 27 10:31:44 hmm. looks like you can add any kind of parameter there and always get a download Apr 27 10:31:59 I also get a download when just entering http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2010SE_10 Apr 27 10:32:04 andre__: yep Apr 27 10:32:05 :) Apr 27 10:32:05 of course it's a html file Apr 27 10:32:07 exactly Apr 27 10:32:11 of course Apr 27 10:32:12 :) Apr 27 10:32:28 so you guys are sure that no data will be lost after reflashing? like contacts, conversations, etc. I do not use an external memory card... Apr 27 10:32:37 Khertan: that one makes me wonder if there's f=/etc/passd Apr 27 10:32:39 passwd Apr 27 10:32:48 you can give anything as "f" value Apr 27 10:32:51 Stskeeps: already try :) Apr 27 10:33:13 So, got PR1.2? Apr 27 10:33:14 i ll not publish a such things if directory changes was possible Apr 27 10:33:35 i ll warn nokia before for security issue ... but here there isn't :) Apr 27 10:33:58 errm... so there is no "not yet released image"? or is there? Apr 27 10:34:10 RST38h: nope ... except if you consider : Warning: fopen(/var/tabletsdev/nokia_N900/downloads/RX-51_2010SE_10.2010.16-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin) [function.fopen]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /var/tabletsdev/nokia_N900.php on line 175
as a pr 1.2 :) Apr 27 10:34:15 andre__: nope of course Apr 27 10:34:21 heh Apr 27 10:34:25 still, interesting Apr 27 10:34:32 i think it was when the download start Apr 27 10:34:33 :) Apr 27 10:34:39 haha, okay Apr 27 10:34:49 but when it s end 500kb later ... i understood my errors :) Apr 27 10:42:53 Which uses less cpu? Osso-media-server, mplayer, default media player, or somethin else? Just tryin to play xvid encode with mp3 audio avi that will last longer on battery. Apr 27 10:43:09 defaul tmedia player Apr 27 10:43:31 k ty Apr 27 10:44:58 N8 officially revealed Apr 27 10:45:39 Looks closer to iPhone, no keyboard, xenon flash and 12mpx camera Apr 27 10:45:59 Finally, plain black plastic casing, or so it looks Apr 27 10:46:03 symbian :/ Apr 27 10:46:36 ah n8 it is :) coo Apr 27 10:46:37 l Apr 27 10:47:15 It remains to be seen if Symbian^3 delivers. Apr 27 10:47:31 MiXu: Delivers exactly the same as previous symbian Apr 27 10:47:37 No surprises there Apr 27 10:47:45 If the responsiveness and the UX is good enough, I say N8 may even be a good product. Apr 27 10:47:50 wow, and they're selling the green one? Apr 27 10:48:10 RST38h: What's that comment based on? Apr 27 10:50:45 Even if you've tried the development version, I'd assume the product isn't ready at this point and the UX will change towards the release. Apr 27 10:51:00 Whoa is the quad band hspa? Apr 27 10:51:01 hey all Apr 27 10:51:23 That comment is based on the fact Symbian is relatively not accepted as great in the mass media. Its probably doubtful this will change it Apr 27 10:51:44 Sorry, I should rephrase that - thats what *I* think the comment is about. Apr 27 10:51:53 Symbian feels very dated to use imo Apr 27 10:51:55 I wonder how many real megapixels 12 is. Apr 27 10:52:13 That may or may not of been what RST38h meant Apr 27 10:52:16 have* Apr 27 10:52:24 Windows is really dated also. Apr 27 10:52:30 But hey, look. Apr 27 10:52:52 MiXu, it doesn't feel dated because Windows 7 has done a reasonably good job at keeping with the times Apr 27 10:53:00 but Symbian feels like its barely changed in 5 years Apr 27 10:53:09 windows is indeed dated, but win7 is excellent os Apr 27 10:53:12 MiXu-: I'm not sure Windows 7 looks all that dated at all. But that doesn't change the fact its still a sack of crap Apr 27 10:53:15 PhonicUK: And if Symbian manages to do the same... why not? Apr 27 10:53:27 symbian is bit like winxp. it kinda works, but its age begins to feel :) Apr 27 10:53:30 If they manage it then fair enough, I'm talking in the presence tense Apr 27 10:53:33 Windows 7 is exellent Apr 27 10:53:48 S60v5 on my N97 feels somewhat clunky to use at the best of times Apr 27 10:53:55 I'm not judging S^3 until I see it. Apr 27 10:54:00 only reason I keep my N97 around is for Spotify Apr 27 10:54:06 otherwise I'd sell it xD Apr 27 10:54:14 In my opinion N97 was the biggest piece of crap Nokia has released for a while. :D Apr 27 10:54:23 At least the PR1.0 Apr 27 10:54:28 I don't regret getting it, I got a lot out of it Apr 27 10:54:28 Haven't tried the upgraded onew. Apr 27 10:54:47 I wish they'd stayed with Webkit as the primary web engine with Maemo Apr 27 10:54:55 that was one of the things that Symbian still has going for it Apr 27 10:54:59 PhonicUK: omg why? Apr 27 10:55:09 its faster? Apr 27 10:55:18 http://n8makemyapp.com/ - vote for meego! :) Apr 27 10:55:27 I am cautiously hopeful about Symbian^3 being usable. Unfortunately I won't be surprised if S^3 is as bad as S60 5th. Apr 27 10:55:52 PhonicUK: really? it sucks Apr 27 10:55:56 PhonicUK: 5800 is pretty much ok Apr 27 10:55:59 MiXu-, S60's good, for non touch phones Apr 27 10:56:00 <3 webkit Apr 27 10:56:10 MohammadAG: Yes it is Apr 27 10:56:10 5800 = N97 w/o keyboard and 1/2 as much storage Apr 27 10:56:11 MiXu: I will be surprised if it is not Apr 27 10:56:13 PhonicUK: I'll admit I just want ABP Apr 27 10:56:16 very similar Apr 27 10:56:19 ABP? Apr 27 10:56:20 PhonicUK: But it works well Apr 27 10:56:24 indeed Apr 27 10:56:33 PhonicUK: Within the limits of S60 applicability of course Apr 27 10:56:44 MohammadAG: I would disagree Apr 27 10:56:46 i.e. S60-based device is a PHOEN not a computer Apr 27 10:56:54 And the good thing about Symbian is the maturity. If you compare a recent Symbian phone to Maemo, there are lots of things that Maemo doesn't do out of the box, but symbian does. Apr 27 10:57:00 Like SyncML support for instance. Apr 27 10:57:17 And Symbian phones tend to be better as _phones_ than N900 :) Apr 27 10:57:32 MiXu, I can't really say the same for N97 vs N900 Apr 27 10:57:36 my N97 is really unreliable Apr 27 10:57:40 N900 is an ok phone really Apr 27 10:57:52 PhonicUK: As I said, get yourself a 5800 Apr 27 10:57:53 The only thing bugging me with the N900 is the portrait mode bug Apr 27 10:58:01 MiXu-: symbian prioritizes tasks well, as such the audio doesn't break up, calls can be answered, etc. Maemo needs a lot of work there. Apr 27 10:58:03 Why get a 5800 if I have an N97 and an N900? :P Apr 27 10:58:04 Ok, haven't tried N97 lately, so let's compare it to N95, which is old, but reliable. Apr 27 10:58:12 and the camera dont have timer in N900 Apr 27 10:58:15 the N95 was cool Apr 27 10:58:18 N97 is a bad apple. Apr 27 10:58:19 quake 3 :) Apr 27 10:58:32 Like I said though, only reason I keep my N97 is for spotify Apr 27 10:58:39 N900 internet is faster thatn N97 Apr 27 10:58:43 if we get a Maemo spotify client with offline support, its gone Apr 27 10:58:58 I may even end up writing it myself Apr 27 10:59:12 "Brazilians ordered to have more sex" Apr 27 10:59:23 you're reading The Register? Apr 27 10:59:26 n900 is missing gravity, sports tracker, ovi maps that doesn't suck Apr 27 10:59:36 * RST38h is reading The Register Apr 27 10:59:41 :) Apr 27 10:59:42 N900 internet is faster thatn N97 Apr 27 10:59:51 everything's faster than the N97 Apr 27 10:59:55 that thing's crap Apr 27 11:00:00 * MohammadAG_ is talking from experience Apr 27 11:00:08 If the N97 had a GPU ala N95, it would have sold so much better Apr 27 11:00:12 then it would have some decent games Apr 27 11:00:22 that said some of the software renderers ive seen on it are pretty stunning Apr 27 11:00:49 even with a GPU, the phrase 'lipstick on a pig' comes to mind Apr 27 11:00:56 MohammadAG_: have you tried comparing the N97 and N900 internet connection? prove it Apr 27 11:00:59 the N97 has an excellent slider, imo Apr 27 11:01:10 I like that the screen comes up at an angle Apr 27 11:01:19 k9, I have an N97 and N900 right in front of me Apr 27 11:01:19 good point Apr 27 11:01:21 literally right now Apr 27 11:01:21 but that's the only thing that's better than the N900 Apr 27 11:01:23 k9, umm, it is faster Apr 27 11:01:33 trust me the N900 wipes the floor with it Apr 27 11:01:41 yes it does Apr 27 11:01:54 indeed Apr 27 11:02:01 the form factor rocked Apr 27 11:02:02 I'd have to use a Nokia 6650 Fold to make a video tho xD Apr 27 11:02:07 but the widgets kill them self Apr 27 11:02:12 cause of low RAM Apr 27 11:02:14 fail ^ Apr 27 11:02:17 128MB RAM, woo! Apr 27 11:02:22 It ran quake 2 really well though Apr 27 11:02:42 PhonicUK, megadrive at 15fps Apr 27 11:02:44 so N900 sucks? Apr 27 11:02:53 i was even planning to buy Apr 27 11:02:56 aaaaaagh buggy POS n900 Apr 27 11:03:17 * deegee_ loves his N900 :o) Apr 27 11:03:21 ^ Apr 27 11:03:27 k9, N900 ftw Apr 27 11:03:33 deegee_++ Apr 27 11:03:50 N900 mostly rocks... I'm just hoping they've fixed the major bugs in PR1.2 Apr 27 11:03:56 MohammadAG, Megadrive ran full speed for me Apr 27 11:03:57 ok ill buy iphone instead Apr 27 11:03:57 mixu++ Apr 27 11:03:58 I would not buy it again Apr 27 11:04:02 so long as I didn't use full screen (1:1 mode) Apr 27 11:04:04 hrw++ Apr 27 11:04:06 last night mine didn't charge at all Apr 27 11:04:25 PhonicUK, I used full screen Apr 27 11:04:27 http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/04/27/nokia-rolls-out-qt-sdk-for-unified-mobile-developer-experience/ <<< interesting Apr 27 11:05:16 right now, I entered "add things to the desktop" mode and all of a sudden everything became un-tap-able, couldn't click on anything. However the bgd still scrolled if I made it Apr 27 11:05:37 hmm. Rundown test - 71h connected to wifi. But that was starting at about 90% charge Apr 27 11:05:43 (It was right after installing OMW that this behaviour started, go figure) Apr 27 11:05:54 (and using it for maybe an hour also) Apr 27 11:06:31 the more I look at the n8 the more I think it'll be a popular consumer phone, especially when it comes free on a plan Apr 27 11:07:10 * SpeedEvil wonders if the 12MP camera is in the same socket as the n900s... Apr 27 11:07:29 speedy: The X6? Apr 27 11:07:35 SpeedEvil: you wish ;) Apr 27 11:07:57 It's prolly 6MPx upscaled Apr 27 11:08:12 5MPx Apr 27 11:08:17 define 'upscale'? Apr 27 11:08:23 asj: I doubt it, yeah Apr 27 11:08:31 software upscaled Apr 27 11:08:35 are there "true" 12MP cams and "upscaled" ones? Apr 27 11:08:36 they're advertising the large sensor, I wonder what the noise looks like Apr 27 11:08:43 The n900 is a 'real' 5MP sensor. Apr 27 11:08:55 But - due to the lens - and physics - it gets ~2MP Apr 27 11:09:18 A lot of digi cams say "X mpixels" and says "Y mpixel sensor, upscalled to X mpixels" Apr 27 11:09:25 in the small print Apr 27 11:09:35 SpeedEvil: and still they brag hi and lo about the AWETASTIC!111 carl zeis lens?! Apr 27 11:10:07 hmm, the skin on my hand is peeling off... Apr 27 11:10:09 you mean the doublet from 1899? Apr 27 11:10:17 the N8 looks good Apr 27 11:10:21 on paper Apr 27 11:10:35 MohammadAG: in fact no ... it s doesn't run Maemo :) Apr 27 11:10:44 tybollt: yes. Apr 27 11:11:01 SpeedEvil: nokia for the lose! Apr 27 11:11:02 Khertan, on paper, as in hardware :) Apr 27 11:11:15 I'll pass Apr 27 11:11:20 tybollt: It's like advertising that you've got a _really_good_ 1cm diameter penis. Apr 27 11:11:21 iphone is the best? dont u think Apr 27 11:11:42 SpeedEvil: DAMIT TO HELL! How did you know that? :-( Apr 27 11:11:43 k9: nokia 3330 Apr 27 11:11:45 k9 very wrong channel Apr 27 11:11:51 MohammadAG: my paper say : Symbian^3 :) Apr 27 11:12:01 ;) Apr 27 11:12:13 Khertan, burn it Apr 27 11:12:27 :) Apr 27 11:12:37 mohammand: why am i in a wrong channel? im only asking if whats the best mobile N series or Iphone Apr 27 11:12:41 let it burn in hell Apr 27 11:12:58 k9, the iPhone still can't properly multitask :) Apr 27 11:13:00 <^24seven> k9, depends what you want to do with it, and what you want from it Apr 27 11:13:12 tnx 24seven Apr 27 11:13:16 Connectors: HDMI, 3.5 mm AV connector <<< funny Apr 27 11:13:25 Khertan, LOL Apr 27 11:13:38 for the non HD TVs :) Apr 27 11:14:06 yep :) Apr 27 11:14:23 and i don't think that the output is really hd :) Apr 27 11:15:26 Khertan, it's zune "HD" Apr 27 11:15:31 k9: nokia knows how to make big amounts of phones. but they forgot how to make good software for it. Apr 27 11:15:55 k9: I think that there is only one branch of nokia phones which shows where nokia goes: S40 Apr 27 11:16:00 Khertan, no one gives a crap about res *looks at iPhone* Apr 27 11:16:11 MohammadAG: yep Apr 27 11:17:47 Khertan, it has 256MBs of ram o.o Apr 27 11:17:54 :) Apr 27 11:17:59 the Omnia HD had that! Apr 27 11:18:29 it s really important to load this facebook website Apr 27 11:18:31 Khertan, mind typing the symbol between symbian and 3? Apr 27 11:18:36 k9: maemo devices always suffered from lack of interest inside of nokia software teams. you can get apps which will never be finished and forget about good application from outside of nokia. Apr 27 11:18:48 (I broke the Sym char menu) Apr 27 11:18:59 hrw: hum ... Apr 27 11:19:25 MohammadAG: use copy / paste :) Apr 27 11:19:30 ^^^^ Apr 27 11:19:33 hrw: i guess your right, to much apps in maemo but not perfectly done Apr 27 11:19:33 Khertan, I found it lol Apr 27 11:19:34 :) Apr 27 11:19:35 Symbian^3 Apr 27 11:20:36 Khertan, copy and paste will work, till I need to copy something else Apr 27 11:20:43 Khertan: I know that there are few good apps in extras. but I will never say that there are many apps for maemo Apr 27 11:21:08 is Qt SDK available to the general public? Apr 27 11:21:20 mece: it seems Apr 27 11:21:21 Qt SDK? Apr 27 11:21:33 http://get.qt.nokia.com/qtsdk/qt-sdk-win-opensource-2010.02.1.exe Apr 27 11:21:43 oh, that Apr 27 11:21:48 maybe we didn't talk about the same version Apr 27 11:21:49 :) Apr 27 11:21:54 Khertan, sure you're not infobot? :p Apr 27 11:22:06 no i'm just currently downloading it Apr 27 11:22:07 :) Apr 27 11:22:13 oh lol Apr 27 11:22:16 lol Apr 27 11:22:20 Khertan, thanks! Apr 27 11:22:26 LOL Apr 27 11:22:26 nope your welcome Apr 27 11:22:40 Oooh! Nokia Qt SDK beta is out <3 Apr 27 11:22:44 ;) Apr 27 11:22:47 at forum nokia Apr 27 11:22:57 Man i watched the promo vid and found myself strangely aroused. Apr 27 11:23:06 mece: me too Apr 27 11:23:11 aroused o.O Apr 27 11:23:14 There was no rally english in it. I'm surprised. Apr 27 11:23:14 hahah Apr 27 11:23:31 Khertan: t'es la? Apr 27 11:23:32 well the one guy with 25M downloads from ovi was a bit ralli Apr 27 11:23:39 crashanddie_: yep Apr 27 11:23:46 mece: That wasn't bad at all Apr 27 11:23:59 good servers... 4Mb/s Apr 27 11:24:05 mece: i give you the wrong link Apr 27 11:24:08 mece: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html Apr 27 11:24:14 sorry Apr 27 11:24:24 so what did I download? Apr 27 11:24:30 Khertan, tsk tsk tsk, you're downloading it for windows then Apr 27 11:24:56 I have windows xp here at work actually, so it was the correct link. I was rather surprised that you knew that though :D Apr 27 11:25:27 mece: No it's not the same as the one he pasted later Apr 27 11:25:45 qt-sdk-win-opensource-2010.02.1.exe is the old one (the official one) Apr 27 11:26:20 Or I don't know which one you're after :) Apr 27 11:26:33 But the Nokia Qt SDK Beta was released today. Apr 27 11:26:44 And it seems kick ass Apr 27 11:27:01 damn, I hope mece @ forum.nokia is me... Apr 27 11:27:04 I think it is. Apr 27 11:27:12 MohammadAG: yes as i'm at work Apr 27 11:27:13 :) Apr 27 11:27:28 well this was Qt SDK 2010.02.1 Apr 27 11:27:54 ok so I want the beta one. Apr 27 11:27:55 MiXu-, do you have a link? Apr 27 11:28:08 http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/04/27/nokia-rolls-out-qt-sdk-for-unified-mobile-developer-experience/ Apr 27 11:28:16 thaanks Apr 27 11:28:34 There's also http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/Tools/IDEs/Nokia_Qt_SDK/ Apr 27 11:29:14 There was some simulator in the video. Could that mean no more scratchbox? <3 Apr 27 11:29:40 shit. I think I resetted someone else's password... Apr 27 11:29:48 lol Apr 27 11:33:10 ok, I'm registered, downloading and ready to fuck things up! Apr 27 11:33:42 err.. Apologies for the swearing. Got a little carried away there. This is not twitter after all. Apr 27 11:34:04 oo khertan is alive Apr 27 11:34:08 it isn't? Apr 27 11:34:13 * noobmonk3y waves frantically at khertan! Apr 27 11:34:14 LOL Apr 27 11:34:21 * noobmonk3y bounces up and down Apr 27 11:34:34 * MohammadAG__ was looking for the RT button Apr 27 11:35:05 hey n00bmonk3y, how do you develop pyqt? or is it pyside? My scratch said there were no qt libs available. Apr 27 11:35:28 mece i do it in python idle (on win vista/7 pc) then winscp it across and test it on the device Apr 27 11:35:38 ok. Apr 27 11:35:56 initially i used qt designer to give me an idea, found it easier to hand code :P Apr 27 11:36:09 hey healthcheck ;) Apr 27 11:36:16 ye.. well trying qtsdk now. Let's see how it is. Apr 27 11:36:18 lol i get called by the application name now lols! Apr 27 11:36:24 ooo let me know how it goes Apr 27 11:36:26 hey chadi Apr 27 11:36:28 might try a re-install soon! Apr 27 11:36:31 lol healthcheck Apr 27 11:36:33 hrrm, I entirely forgot which was the "good" MSN thingy? Apr 27 11:36:34 haha Apr 27 11:36:39 pecan by any chance? Apr 27 11:36:47 pecan pie? Apr 27 11:36:55 pecan be the good. Apr 27 11:37:00 ~slap noobmonk3y Apr 27 11:37:01 * infobot slaps noobmonk3y, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! Apr 27 11:37:04 makes you haze-y Apr 27 11:37:05 * noobmonk3y winks at khertan... Apr 27 11:37:05 is pecan in extras btw? I was it was close recently. Apr 27 11:37:11 without being purple Apr 27 11:37:14 |fondle tybollt Apr 27 11:37:16 meh Apr 27 11:37:17 noobmonk3y: yea, you healthcheck led to a brick :P Apr 27 11:37:19 aaaw Apr 27 11:37:19 lol Apr 27 11:37:22 ~fondle tybollt Apr 27 11:37:28 wtf? Apr 27 11:37:32 yay to fecked up keyboard languages Apr 27 11:37:34 healtcheck bricked? Apr 27 11:37:37 nope Apr 27 11:37:40 healthcheck works for me :D Apr 27 11:37:41 mece nope Apr 27 11:37:41 yes Apr 27 11:37:41 * MohammadAG sues noobmonk3y Apr 27 11:37:50 lolwut? Apr 27 11:38:04 * noobmonk3y countersue's MohammadAG muhahahahaha Apr 27 11:38:05 * MohammadAG demands 100000 slices of bacon Apr 27 11:38:10 crap Apr 27 11:38:11 mm bacon Apr 27 11:38:17 * lcuk pre ordered the bacon Apr 27 11:38:22 it told me that 95% of rootfs is busy, so i bricked my device after trying to free it :P Apr 27 11:38:27 LOL it really does ping lcuk Apr 27 11:38:28 anyway who started an evil healthcheck bricking rumour? Apr 27 11:38:33 lol! Apr 27 11:38:33 lcuk, with a side order of DNF? Apr 27 11:38:34 IIRC the guy who initially wrote lpurple wrote a drop in client for msn on the n900, not sure if it's pecan or haze :S Apr 27 11:38:37 * noobmonk3y blames healthcheck Apr 27 11:38:46 lcuk: in bulk? Apr 27 11:38:48 sure :P Apr 27 11:38:54 * MohammadAG blames the guy who made healthcheck Apr 27 11:38:57 pecan is written by a former haze coder. Apr 27 11:38:59 * noobmonk3y blames lcuk Apr 27 11:39:04 and pecan is the good one. Apr 27 11:39:11 sure let's blame him Apr 27 11:39:12 * noobmonk3y needs bacon...... Apr 27 11:39:15 ~fondle mece's Apr 27 11:39:18 eeeeew ;) Apr 27 11:39:18 chadi: is your device ok now? Apr 27 11:39:20 * mece blames canada Apr 27 11:39:32 * MohammadAG blames the ash cloud Apr 27 11:39:35 mece: good idea Apr 27 11:40:04 noobmonk3y nope, dowloading the binaries to reflash :P Apr 27 11:40:10 still in coma Apr 27 11:40:11 LOL Apr 27 11:40:12 mplayer is the only app that has really fracked up my precious. Apr 27 11:40:19 MohammadAG: be the ash clouds fault.... that was lcuks fault..... so the world is lcuk 's fault? Apr 27 11:40:28 * noobmonk3y eeeeeeeeek's Apr 27 11:40:29 gl! Apr 27 11:40:43 thank you =) Apr 27 11:40:43 gl Apr 27 11:40:44 gg Apr 27 11:40:46 noobmonk3y, he taught sharks to shoot lasers Apr 27 11:40:51 * noobmonk3y will not install mplayer, as the device media player suits my needs :D Apr 27 11:41:03 MohammadAG: naaaa, that was mrs lcuk Apr 27 11:41:06 you guys doubted it? http://liqbase.net/irc.bacon.png Apr 27 11:41:26 btw, noobmonk3y, i noticed that scrolling sucks; it sometimes moves after i pull out my finger from the screen Apr 27 11:41:35 mece: What did MPlayer do? Apr 27 11:41:41 chadi: QT scrolling = fail Apr 27 11:41:44 lmfao Apr 27 11:41:53 lcuk++ Apr 27 11:42:02 any knowledgable PR1.2 / SDK people know if QT scrolling in lists is fixed soon? Apr 27 11:42:03 noobmonk3y: QT scrolling or PyQT scrolling? Apr 27 11:42:16 ShadowJK, it made my device stop playing media. Apr 27 11:42:16 chadi: QT i think Apr 27 11:42:23 noobmonk3y, whats wrong? Apr 27 11:42:24 mplayer... someone know which params (ao/vo) should be used on n900? Apr 27 11:42:41 lcuk: scrolling in healthcheck list box jumps around as and when it feels Apr 27 11:42:43 noobmonk3y, http://www.themadhat.com/images/flying-sharks.jpg Apr 27 11:42:56 + lasers, yeah, blame lcuk Apr 27 11:43:00 noobmonk3y; also, i prefer the non-colored theme :P Apr 27 11:43:01 lol MohammadAG ! nice Apr 27 11:43:02 hrw, pupnik had some nice ones to bypass pulse.. Apr 27 11:43:06 chadi: Meh Apr 27 11:43:22 healthcheck = green, the governments will never catch on lol Apr 27 11:43:23 noobmonk3y, hes serious :p Apr 27 11:43:28 have a way to disable theme ;) Apr 27 11:43:29 lcuk: i'm always serious :D Apr 27 11:43:45 * mece likes his phone black. Apr 27 11:43:50 hrw, -ao pulse -vo xv:ck-method=auto Apr 27 11:44:10 noobmonk3y and one last thing: while loading, it asks me to enable GPS settings, but I have them disabled. That's annoying :D Apr 27 11:44:25 Hey. I'm creating few Maemo 5 -themes and I wanted to ask if it's possible to somehow create rounded borders on screen. Like in some earlier Maemo-version themes... Apr 27 11:44:28 lcuk: i'm always serious :D Apr 27 11:44:30 well... kinda hard not too :( - as it tests the gps settings :| Apr 27 11:44:30 that worries me Apr 27 11:44:32 Example pic: http://i43.tinypic.com/m9u7fd.png Apr 27 11:44:37 Qt sdk is humongous! Apr 27 11:45:00 mece, I guess either the alsa-plugin-pulse-alsa-audiodevice chain failed, or then X's xv driver wedged itself.. it shouldn't even be possible for MPlayer to cause problems that presist across reboots though :P Apr 27 11:45:09 * noobmonk3y will think of a way to test GPS without using GPS one day... but for now, i'm not god :P Apr 27 11:45:44 noobmonk3y, tie it with 911 Apr 27 11:45:51 :| Apr 27 11:45:52 noobmonk3y; not that I don't want it, I jsut don't have it available in my country :P Apr 27 11:45:55 * MohammadAG hits GPS test Apr 27 11:45:59 no gps chadi? Apr 27 11:46:03 "Dialing 911" Apr 27 11:46:03 eeeeek..... Apr 27 11:46:03 ShadowJK, I tried rebooting, uninstalling reinstalling media players codecs and whatnot Apr 27 11:46:09 ShadowJK: thx Apr 27 11:46:09 Ministeri: What theme is it??? Apr 27 11:46:16 ShadowJK, had to flash the fkkr Apr 27 11:46:19 chadi: since when did you live in atlantis? Apr 27 11:46:26 Ministeri, epic theme! What is it? Apr 27 11:46:33 MPlayer doesn't at all touch the default media player, and doesn't replace or use any of the codecs with the default media player Apr 27 11:46:34 noobmonk3y, seriously, they can check your location using GPS, just ask them if they can Apr 27 11:46:48 lol MohammadAG - you can triangulate on cell towers i spose Apr 27 11:46:51 noobmonk3y i'm in the country where 3G is not available, where 1mbit is the fastest internet connection, etc.. Apr 27 11:46:54 ShadowJK, well that's what I installed, and that's what happened. Apr 27 11:47:03 chadi: sounds very much like the UK to me ;) Apr 27 11:47:07 noobmonk3y, ask them for an exact location Apr 27 11:47:16 they'll get a bit bored after a while though Apr 27 11:47:19 mece, although if you have a video file on the device that the default media player can't play, then it kills itself :) Apr 27 11:47:21 chadi: sucks being in the USA eh? Apr 27 11:47:27 chadi: - can make you a botched version without GPS if you want? Apr 27 11:47:32 Mece, just a mockup. Maybe I will make it later. Apr 27 11:47:34 ShadowJK, the media player couldn't play ANYTHING Apr 27 11:47:42 noobmonk3y hah it's ok :p Apr 27 11:47:57 Ministeri, can you make it in obsidian too? I really like the flat buttons. Apr 27 11:47:57 mece, yeah that happens when you have a file it can't play anywhere on teh device :P Apr 27 11:47:59 RST38h, It's not a theme. Just my mockup. Apr 27 11:47:59 botched lol Apr 27 11:48:00 asj: yea, lots of tsunamis Apr 27 11:48:04 it's a bug, fixed in PR1.2 maybe Apr 27 11:48:14 Ministeri: Ah please make it a theme =)~~~ Apr 27 11:48:14 ShadowJK, interesting. Apr 27 11:48:18 hey, how come nobody has made "Fixed in PR1.2" t-shirts yet? Apr 27 11:48:27 haha Apr 27 11:48:27 rofl Apr 27 11:48:35 ShadowJK: I'll buy one Apr 27 11:48:36 ShadowJK, to replace the fixed in fremantle ones? Apr 27 11:48:42 mece, yeah :) Apr 27 11:48:51 i have a FiF tshit Apr 27 11:48:52 :P Apr 27 11:48:54 Is there somewhere template.png -file of original Maemo5-theme, not SDK? Apr 27 11:49:00 * noobmonk3y has a fixed in pr1.2 tatoo on his...... erm... anyone fancy changing subject? Apr 27 11:49:22 noobmonk3y: no Apr 27 11:49:29 * noobmonk3y grins Apr 27 11:49:35 * noobmonk3y is going for some fresh air brb Apr 27 11:49:48 "fresh" air? Apr 27 11:49:54 oh MohammadAG - got python pong working hehe Apr 27 11:50:05 pypong Apr 27 11:50:06 noobmonk3y pongs Apr 27 11:50:07 haha Apr 27 11:50:12 * noobmonk3y 's first attempt at pygame Apr 27 11:50:23 so,, you're working on a python port of iphoneOS? Apr 27 11:50:25 infobot, ping Apr 27 11:50:26 ~pong Apr 27 11:50:51 mece: as supposed to the fake fresh air non smokers breath in Apr 27 11:51:06 noobmonk3y, exactly :D Apr 27 11:51:20 except opposed not supposed Apr 27 11:51:28 lols Apr 27 11:53:10 when is the hong kong release of PR1.2? Apr 27 11:54:03 29 feb Apr 27 11:54:21 Tue Apr 27 14:54:20 IDT 2010 Apr 27 11:54:22 same day of ubuntu's new LTS Apr 27 11:54:29 o.O Apr 27 11:54:35 10.04? Apr 27 11:54:39 yeah Apr 27 11:54:50 that broke xephyr for me lol Apr 27 11:55:38 the beta? Apr 27 11:55:39 * frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a trout Apr 27 11:55:56 chadi, yeah Apr 27 11:56:02 but plymouth was ftw Apr 27 11:56:17 I don't try betas :P Apr 27 11:58:52 53mbs left for the *.bin! Apr 27 11:58:58 hm, are there any bugs that are fixed in >PR1.2? Apr 27 11:59:19 ShadowJK yeah, PR 1.3 :P Apr 27 11:59:29 PR 1.3 is a bug? Apr 27 11:59:32 * noobmonk3y slaps frals with a dolphin Apr 27 11:59:40 frals? Apr 27 11:59:44 maybe we can make "fixed in PR1.3" tshirts at the same time then Apr 27 11:59:46 why are you slaping him? Apr 27 11:59:48 tybollt a virtual one Apr 27 12:00:38 why shouldnt i? Apr 27 12:00:42 ShadowJK: how about PR2.0? Apr 27 12:00:48 good point well made frals Apr 27 12:00:51 frals, \o Apr 27 12:00:55 o/ Apr 27 12:01:08 o/\o Apr 27 12:01:30 \\o Apr 27 12:01:31 o// Apr 27 12:01:57 asj, I wouldn't dare assume there'll be a 2.0 :P Apr 27 12:02:36 We will get Duke Nukeem forever with PR 2.0 Apr 27 12:02:39 * Appiah ducks Apr 27 12:03:09 PR2.0 will have a built in PS3 emulator Apr 27 12:03:11 Shockingly Bowness, now Lady Sinclair, had a Commodore computer as a child, not a ZX Spectrum Apr 27 12:03:29 MohammadAG: PR 2.0 will be a PS4 you mean?! lol Apr 27 12:03:29 Hey guys, how would I go about re-creating the same kind of interface as the SMS conversations? Apr 27 12:03:33 (pymaemo / gtk) Apr 27 12:03:43 MohammadAG: And 5 cute little kittens! Apr 27 12:03:44 noobmonk3y, that's PR2.1 Apr 27 12:03:46 crashanddie_: ask frals Apr 27 12:03:52 I want to do it very simply, I'm guessing a pannable area, but how do I create each SMS? Apr 27 12:03:57 crashanddie_, pyqt would be preferable perhaps Apr 27 12:04:09 RST38h, screw kittens, I want laser shooting penguins Apr 27 12:04:11 lcuk: nha just want to throw something together without too many dependencies Apr 27 12:04:23 * noobmonk3y lthinks a'lotta looping through the sqlite db?! Apr 27 12:04:24 create it as a html page then ;) Apr 27 12:04:30 MohammadAG: Promised to us by Maemo Devices since Maemo5 Apr 27 12:04:44 (check #maemo logs for the proof) Apr 27 12:04:52 what was promised! Apr 27 12:04:54 lol Apr 27 12:05:07 frikkin laser shooting penguins! Apr 27 12:05:08 * frals holds noobmonk3y responsible Apr 27 12:05:12 lcuk: the laser shooting penguins Apr 27 12:05:17 oh yeah those Apr 27 12:05:27 have you ever tried to herd penguins Apr 27 12:05:34 worse than gerbils Apr 27 12:05:46 gerbils mating with laser penguins = fecked up! Apr 27 12:06:00 at least they come out cooked Apr 27 12:06:10 hey what's a standard font on N900? Apr 27 12:06:19 like the aliases.. Apr 27 12:06:25 noobmonk3y, you mean tux? :) Apr 27 12:06:38 ther eis monotype.. what is the standard variable width font called? Apr 27 12:06:57 gerbils mating with laser penguins = fecked up! lmao Apr 27 12:07:13 sometimes the documentation doesn't make a lot of sense Apr 27 12:07:14 mece, nokia sans afaik Apr 27 12:07:24 "Never use , you should use " Apr 27 12:07:32 (and is the same both times) Apr 27 12:08:25 * MohammadAG misses the "The next episode is about to begin" ads Apr 27 12:08:54 * noobmonk3y grins Apr 27 12:09:06 tux is a cross between a gerbil and a frikkin laser shooting penguin? Apr 27 12:09:07 wow! Apr 27 12:09:26 noobmonk3y, he shoots fireballs in SuperTux Apr 27 12:09:45 tux is Linus Torvalds inbred brother Apr 27 12:10:54 hell yea just got the email that my N900 should be here over the next 2 weeks :) Apr 27 12:10:56 cannot wait for it Apr 27 12:11:11 email from? Apr 27 12:11:33 fast forward two months and jcrawford will be lamenting about the POS that is N900 and no PR1.2 yet in here ;) Apr 27 12:12:13 lol what is PR1.2? Apr 27 12:12:30 idc if it sux it's free for me so i cannot complain :)( Apr 27 12:12:40 who doesn't know PR1.2 Apr 27 12:12:44 legend says that penguin called tux shot linus with freaking lazer at zoo :) Apr 27 12:12:48 ahh, free n900 Apr 27 12:13:04 that explains why the lack of actualy knowledge of the device Apr 27 12:13:37 jcrawford: im selling my N900 Apr 27 12:13:48 jcrawford: where you from? Apr 27 12:16:14 k9, USA Apr 27 12:16:53 auenf, sure i have not looked at the device much. I plan to do that once it is in hand. No sense looking into developing without the phone in hand :) Apr 27 12:17:01 so seriously what is PR1.2? Apr 27 12:17:22 there is about 500 threads about PR1.2, start researching Apr 27 12:19:08 auenf: PR1.2 being looked forward to? You don't say! :) Apr 27 12:19:46 so there are a lot of issues currently with the N900 firmware? Apr 27 12:20:04 jcrawford, its the next iteration Apr 27 12:20:12 not really issues Apr 27 12:20:16 jcrawford: my N900 thinks it is a saheep, i'm told PR1.2 will fix it Apr 27 12:20:19 sheep* Apr 27 12:20:23 * noobmonk3y also can't type Apr 27 12:20:27 lol Apr 27 12:20:31 but PR1.2 will add some things that people seem to have trouble waiting for Apr 27 12:20:52 * noobmonk3y grumbles Apr 27 12:20:52 my lego men arrived \o/ Apr 27 12:21:03 healthcheck had 55k downloads yesterday, today it has 53k......... Apr 27 12:21:04 lol Apr 27 12:21:05 lmfao Apr 27 12:21:10 heh funny I work @ Nokia but not in the devices department (which is why i am in the dark on this stuff) Apr 27 12:21:27 which dep then? Apr 27 12:21:32 OviStore Apr 27 12:21:39 omg Apr 27 12:21:45 * noobmonk3y rants at jcrawford Apr 27 12:21:48 do us all a favor and burn it down Apr 27 12:21:49 lol i know i know Apr 27 12:22:00 why the fuckles do they sell media for the n900 that it can't use! Apr 27 12:22:03 jcrawford: where's ovi maps 3 for n900? Apr 27 12:22:06 the current solution sucks, we are hard at work though so you should see it straighten out soon Apr 27 12:22:12 yay! Apr 27 12:22:22 Scelt, i have no idea and even if i did my NDA would restrict me from saying Apr 27 12:22:25 the last time i've heard nokia and soon in a sentence it had PR1.2 in it Apr 27 12:22:31 jcrawford, may I suggest something? Apr 27 12:22:34 jcrawford, Wow - The OVI store may be the least popular part of Nokia for N900 users. Apr 27 12:22:36 jcrawford: I think it's in bit space :P Apr 27 12:22:44 jcrawford: that was brave to admit in public Apr 27 12:22:44 :P Apr 27 12:22:48 lol :D Apr 27 12:22:50 I doubt it will be taken into account though Apr 27 12:22:52 noobmonk3y, that was the way the store was designed, soon you will only see products your device can install Apr 27 12:22:58 * tybollt bets a fiver jcrawford is in marketing Apr 27 12:23:04 lol - strangely i still have no angst against jcrawford .... :P Apr 27 12:23:09 * chadi pokes healthcheck Apr 27 12:23:15 ;p marketing I think NOT Apr 27 12:23:16 * MohammadAG asks again Apr 27 12:23:17 * noobmonk3y kicks healthcheck into submission Apr 27 12:23:18 jcrawford, may I suggest something? Apr 27 12:23:35 MohammadAG, sure so long as you know i will take it like a grain of salt :) Apr 27 12:23:37 * noobmonk3y tweeting "nokia asking for an N8 to test healthcheck on... no answer - hehehe Apr 27 12:23:39 * MohammadAG wonders if he's on ignore Apr 27 12:23:43 lol Apr 27 12:23:50 if it is a serious suggestion I will make it through the chain of command though Apr 27 12:23:50 lol! Apr 27 12:23:58 noobmonk3y M8 is symbian :P Apr 27 12:24:04 i know chadi Apr 27 12:24:08 no health to check Apr 27 12:24:15 yeah there is :P Apr 27 12:24:19 jcrawford, make an app that locks a directory, gets debs into it, installs them, then clears the directory and unlocks it Apr 27 12:24:20 healthcheck is qt :P Apr 27 12:24:25 lol MohammadAG Apr 27 12:24:31 so mece? Apr 27 12:24:31 i'm serious Apr 27 12:24:36 what did nokia release today? Apr 27 12:24:42 it should work if i faff with the variables Apr 27 12:24:45 noobmonk3y, shouldn't that work on n8? Apr 27 12:24:46 yes while the current OviStore sucks (for all devices) a new improved version is in the works (no release dates from me though) but know that stuff should get better soon. Apr 27 12:24:50 jcrawford, basically like the current apt, but with a non user readable directory Apr 27 12:25:01 mece: the screen etc will - but the specifics to maem owill bomb it out Apr 27 12:25:06 MohammadAG, that would be a suggestion for the Maemo team not the OviStore team :) Apr 27 12:25:07 what's with nokia and the release dates? Apr 27 12:25:18 jcrawford, it can't suck that bad though. I hear someone is getting their software. Apr 27 12:25:20 jcrawford: a suggestion for both to talk to each other ;) Apr 27 12:25:21 jcrawford, what's the ovi store team for then? Apr 27 12:25:21 nokia have never had release dates Apr 27 12:25:22 I will see if I can dig out some contacts for you though Apr 27 12:25:26 (maemo related) Apr 27 12:25:36 lol noobmonk3y Apr 27 12:25:46 MohammadAG, we develop the store which interacts with devices Apr 27 12:26:00 you would want to talk to the OviStore Client Development team for Maemo Apr 27 12:26:04 jcrawford: no you don't, you irc with maemo fans Apr 27 12:26:09 * noobmonk3y loves big companies.... it's as though the left hand doesnt know the right hand exists but they can both scratch the same butt cheek and forehead Apr 27 12:26:11 is there a client? Apr 27 12:26:12 * tybollt is actually waiting for a blog from Ari... "What PR1.2? We never promised such a thing! Forget it people, it's Harmattan and N910 from this point forward!" Apr 27 12:26:25 LOL noobmonk3y Apr 27 12:26:38 MohammadAG, honestly I am not sure how the N900 works yet but yes most phones have a native store client, those who don't use the mobi site Apr 27 12:26:46 ahhhh :D Apr 27 12:26:57 jcrawford, it uses a mobile site that downloads .install files Apr 27 12:26:59 lol noobmonk3y Apr 27 12:27:03 which is... very slow Apr 27 12:27:07 jcrawford: welcome by the way :D - kinda good to hear from other perspectives Apr 27 12:27:23 MohammadAG, I am not sure if that will change or not in the future but I will discuss this with the Mobi team in that case Apr 27 12:27:27 * MohammadAG wants someone from Nokia in here Apr 27 12:27:29 why don't we have the maemo source code available so that we fix our own bugs? Apr 27 12:27:39 chadi, you wish Apr 27 12:27:46 MohammadAG, please email me, email coming through now Apr 27 12:27:48 but seriously Apr 27 12:27:49 chadi: you do, except for the closed source parts Apr 27 12:27:58 ah crap Apr 27 12:28:05 chadi: what maemo source exactly? Apr 27 12:28:05 infobot, openness Apr 27 12:28:15 ~openness Apr 27 12:28:27 ~FOSS Apr 27 12:28:28 foss is probably Free and Open Source Software Apr 27 12:28:29 maybe? Apr 27 12:28:35 lol Apr 27 12:28:40 andre__ like everything, i'd like to take a look Apr 27 12:28:44 ~scratch butcheek Apr 27 12:28:45 * infobot shreds butcheek's backside Apr 27 12:28:49 infobot, openness is http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html Apr 27 12:28:49 chadi: most of it is available :D Apr 27 12:28:50 okay, Stskeeps Apr 27 12:28:56 infobot, openness Apr 27 12:28:56 lol Stskeeps Apr 27 12:28:57 somebody said openness was http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html Apr 27 12:29:04 'somebody' Apr 27 12:29:06 chadi: -> that page Apr 27 12:29:07 noobmonk3y fine, i'll google Apr 27 12:29:12 noobmonk3y, alzeheimer Apr 27 12:29:15 Stskeeps okay thanks Apr 27 12:29:18 * MohammadAG corrects typos Apr 27 12:29:35 chadi: like 80% of everything is available already. Apr 27 12:29:54 * MohammadAG grumbles at SSU Apr 27 12:29:55 ~tell Stskeeps about maemo-obsolete Apr 27 12:30:06 andre__ and can I rebuild what I want? Apr 27 12:30:14 chadi, yes Apr 27 12:30:23 andre__: 80% of the platform, yes :P Apr 27 12:30:29 you can't SSU if you break the metapackage though Apr 27 12:30:35 Stskeeps, ah, okay :-P Apr 27 12:30:37 andre__ makes me want to fix that annoying skype bug Apr 27 12:30:48 skype's closed Apr 27 12:30:54 as telepathy-spirit Apr 27 12:30:56 andre__: (which is another magic number) Apr 27 12:31:02 chadi, if you convince Skype to release their code, go ahead ;-) Apr 27 12:31:05 meh Apr 27 12:31:08 skype's soooo closed they even crypt the ELF Apr 27 12:31:24 lol Apr 27 12:31:28 "someone else should do it i just like to whine" Apr 27 12:31:36 ;) Apr 27 12:31:40 skype is evil Apr 27 12:31:43 no kidding Apr 27 12:32:08 skype's good Apr 27 12:32:23 andre__ so what happens exactly when they have a bug? the maemo team asks skype to fix that and skype releases a binary to test? Apr 27 12:32:38 depends on where exactly the bug is, I'd say. Apr 27 12:32:38 sounds reasonable Apr 27 12:32:43 chadi: yes Apr 27 12:32:57 Is anyone using PC or Ovi Suite with N900? Apr 27 12:33:01 Which one is better? Apr 27 12:33:13 neither Apr 27 12:33:16 :-P Apr 27 12:33:23 MiXu-: PC Suite _can_ backup the n900 Apr 27 12:33:27 MiXu-: pcsuite Apr 27 12:33:29 MiXu-, depends on which OS you're on, I'd say. Apr 27 12:33:33 ovi suite always fails :( Apr 27 12:33:39 MiXu-: ovi suite is entirely incompatible at all levels w/ the n900 Apr 27 12:33:41 noobmonk3y, both fail :P Apr 27 12:33:46 MohammadAG: fails Apr 27 12:33:48 even with my N97 they failed Apr 27 12:33:50 that is the greatest farce there is about the N900 Apr 27 12:33:51 frals: fails even worse Apr 27 12:33:57 tybollt: Ah, I see Apr 27 12:34:01 it is !compatible w/ everything ovi Apr 27 12:34:05 oi shutup noobmonk3y Apr 27 12:34:06 the fact that 2 pieces of software even exist is the biggest fail Apr 27 12:34:08 * MohammadAG does a /cs kickban noobmonk3y how dare you! Apr 27 12:34:17 nid0: I agree Apr 27 12:34:18 ~bitch-slap frals Apr 27 12:34:25 lols Apr 27 12:34:28 one of the original reasons of the ovi suite was to amalgamate the 54689034680349034 different pieces of pc software nokia have Apr 27 12:34:29 |hug frals Apr 27 12:34:33 ~hug frals Apr 27 12:34:34 in essence... nokia flagship is not compatible (after half a year on the market) w/ their flagship appstore/framework Apr 27 12:34:34 * infobot gets a running start and tackle-hugs frals Apr 27 12:34:35 yay!~ Apr 27 12:34:35 ~nuke noobmonk3y Apr 27 12:34:36 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at noobmonk3y ... B☢☢M! Apr 27 12:34:38 now theres just 54689034680349034 + 12 Apr 27 12:34:42 +1* Apr 27 12:34:47 that is so entirely gruesomely pathetic and embarasing Apr 27 12:34:51 where did n900 get stated as a flagship btw? Apr 27 12:34:51 :P Apr 27 12:34:57 nowhere Apr 27 12:35:00 slight difference between a tackle-hug and a 100 missiles i feel Apr 27 12:35:00 scp'ing media files to n900 sucks Apr 27 12:35:00 people just assume Apr 27 12:35:13 Stskeeps: I stand corrected... :) It's a flagshit ;) Apr 27 12:35:15 Arkenoi: does it? works for me Apr 27 12:35:24 damn indexer tries to pick them up as they go and slows everything down Apr 27 12:35:42 mass storage mode usb transfers are the way to move lots of media Apr 27 12:36:21 current flagship device is N8 according to google Apr 27 12:36:24 * noobmonk3y looks at frals......... get of that penguin you sick sick thing :P Apr 27 12:36:56 it is as if the n900/maemo is the kid nokia never wish to have given birth to and now they do everything they can to adopt it away. Apr 27 12:37:06 Boooo! You can't use the Nokia Qt SDK Beta with a PR1.1.1 :D Apr 27 12:37:14 I want that damn PR1.2 already Apr 27 12:37:34 pr1.2 is overrated Apr 27 12:37:55 where's the thread on tmo where all the adds spotted out in the wild fot N900 are collected? Flagship? pfff! Apr 27 12:37:56 Corsac: It isn't. My app requires it to run. Apr 27 12:37:58 If you write a sybian Qt app - how muh porting is there to put it on n900? Apr 27 12:38:18 Depends on the UI Apr 27 12:38:42 Or no. It should scale up just fine. Apr 27 12:39:05 moin SpeedEvil Apr 27 12:39:39 noobmonk3y: not much else to do here in hel! Apr 27 12:39:53 lol! Apr 27 12:40:33 ~nuke indexer & thumbnailer Apr 27 12:40:34 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at indexer & thumbnailer ... B☢☢M! Apr 27 12:40:56 just nuke tracker Apr 27 12:41:25 product of a schizoid wino on crack Apr 27 12:42:50 holy fucking shit Apr 27 12:43:00 they're opening up a human dead body, live on australian television Apr 27 12:43:12 they're actually removing the spinal chord as we speak Apr 27 12:43:33 crashanddie_: record it pls Apr 27 12:43:37 in a hotel mate Apr 27 12:43:38 Poll: Problems with N900 USB port becoming broken / loose and resulting warranty & repair issues 1,337 replies Apr 27 12:43:40 bam? Apr 27 12:43:50 and obviously it's a german doctor Apr 27 12:43:50 meh, our christmas lunches at my previous work had hip surgery videos as entertainment Apr 27 12:43:54 :P Apr 27 12:43:57 crashanddie_: it's called autopsy. and it's not shockingly new invention =) Unless they use N900 do do it. Apr 27 12:44:11 Lynoure: the body is held upright by the head Apr 27 12:44:16 auenf: A lot of that is really random crap - not people reporting 'my n900 broke' Apr 27 12:44:16 Lynoure: and skinned Apr 27 12:44:25 crashanddie: and alive? Apr 27 12:44:36 crashanddie_, its a repeat Apr 27 12:44:40 probably Apr 27 12:44:47 Anatomy for Beginners (Movement) Apr 27 12:44:54 Professor Gunther von Hagens performs dissections on real human bodies, laying bare the intricacy of human design. During each episode, von Hagens focuses on a different set of anatomical systems: movement, circulation, digestion and reproduction. In this episode, he dissects a man to explain how the human body moves in great detail. | Documentary, Medical, Documentaries, ScienceNatureTechnology | Repeat | MA n, MA Apr 27 12:45:06 auenf: it's preople asking - every page - 'how many n900s have this problem' and stating 'the n900 sucks', and ... Apr 27 12:45:24 auenf: watching it? Apr 27 12:45:28 SpeedEvil, i know the thread, its 1337 repies of crap Apr 27 12:45:37 just noticed the number ;) Apr 27 12:45:41 auenf: oh Apr 27 12:45:44 auenf: I missed that. Apr 27 12:45:53 crashanddie_, its a repeat, no need to see it again Apr 27 12:45:53 1337? xD Apr 27 12:46:10 MohammadAG: aware of ;) Apr 27 12:46:11 auenf: I thought you were just commenting ont he apparant unreliuability from over 1000 comments Apr 27 12:46:33 the unreliability of the maemo forums, yes, not the device Apr 27 12:47:33 that guy did the body worlds exhebitions Apr 27 12:47:52 imported Chinese corpses for his "art"... Apr 27 12:48:11 RST38h: its not art its science Apr 27 12:48:23 http://www.anand-topalov.com/en/live.html Apr 27 12:50:03 fuckin hell my flight not on the board yet Apr 27 12:50:18 time to lose the shirt i think Apr 27 12:50:33 sorry back Apr 27 12:50:36 frals: where you at? Apr 27 12:51:08 hel vantta Apr 27 12:51:10 frals: I spent 17 hours waiting in an airport last time Apr 27 12:51:22 time to get to work, be back later :) Apr 27 12:51:32 Hmm. The new Qt Simulator is total crap. Apr 27 12:51:39 frals you will be arrested if you start stripping off lol Apr 27 12:51:39 frals: after a 26 hour flight around the world Apr 27 12:52:00 lol lcuk you speak from experience i recon Apr 27 12:52:12 In the simulator my app doesn't look anything like it looks like on the N900. Apr 27 12:52:16 crashanddie_: sounds... >< Apr 27 12:52:19 lol frals yup Apr 27 12:52:25 lol Apr 27 12:52:30 frals: he was in need of bacon Apr 27 12:52:39 frals: showing his fat wasn't an option though Apr 27 12:52:43 :D Apr 27 12:52:51 crashanddie_, did they let you take the handcuffs off? Apr 27 12:53:05 lcuk: nha, i'm tongue-typing Apr 27 12:53:14 first battery down to 20ish percent hmm Apr 27 12:53:25 it's weird because for the first few days you taste all the residue in the keyboard Apr 27 12:53:32 should get the other one from the bag probably Apr 27 12:53:32 but after a while you can get pretty good at it Apr 27 12:53:42 MiXu-, it didn't work on this computer. Some profile errors. It's a mess :/ Apr 27 12:53:56 hot swap batteries gunclip style would be beneficial Apr 27 12:54:09 lcuk, I suggested that :P Apr 27 12:54:16 then mod a bullet belt Apr 27 12:54:21 and attach it Apr 27 12:54:25 they should've just left the simulator out completely Apr 27 12:54:32 make it vibrate on each battery changed Apr 27 12:54:35 mms brings on new meaning Apr 27 12:54:36 jcrawford: god to have you around here Apr 27 12:54:42 good even Apr 27 12:54:44 multimedia by munitions service Apr 27 12:54:58 frals: so there's still that clous BS then? Apr 27 12:55:43 frals: I don't get it (I just got home by bus, last wednesday) I thought the flights were bussiness as usual? Apr 27 12:56:04 they are Apr 27 12:56:11 im just early :D Apr 27 12:56:47 who's working on live wallpapers here? Apr 27 12:56:54 * MohammadAG has a suggestion :P Apr 27 12:57:17 instead of moving desktops, move widgets, that way the wallpapers run on all 4 "desktops" Apr 27 12:57:23 thanks' Apr 27 12:57:55 MohammadAG: live wallpapers should work on all desktops. Apr 27 12:57:56 MohammadAG, lcuk, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSLaggKfkks Apr 27 12:58:02 MohammadAG: Should not be limited to just one. Apr 27 12:58:09 in the movie genre retarded-awesome Apr 27 12:58:15 X-Fade, my suggestion saves battery life Apr 27 12:58:23 instead of running 4 live wallpapers Apr 27 12:58:32 it's one, for all 4 widget screens Apr 27 12:58:35 MohammadAG: Nah, everything that is not in sight, is not running. Apr 27 12:59:15 X-Fade, and how would they time them to run without any frame drops while swiping :) Apr 27 12:59:17 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1231587/ Apr 27 13:00:34 o_O eye tracking, only turn o nthe screen if people are looking at it :D Apr 27 13:00:56 wtf is a live wallpaper? they didn't kill the trees before gluing them to the wall? Apr 27 13:01:22 active content on the background layer of desktops Apr 27 13:01:29 eeek Apr 27 13:01:36 lcuk: you mean porn. Apr 27 13:01:48 but active may simply be "change wallpaper every 4 hours" Apr 27 13:01:50 Live wallpaper has got to be the most useless feature ever. Apr 27 13:01:59 you bet Apr 27 13:02:06 * tybollt bets Apr 27 13:02:15 what am I betting on doc? Apr 27 13:02:26 MiXu- only if its useless wallpaper Apr 27 13:02:28 mece, seriously? lol Apr 27 13:02:36 many things in life are folly :) Apr 27 13:02:38 What would be a useful wallpaper then? :D Apr 27 13:02:38 MiXu- if there was a live map that always update your position Apr 27 13:02:42 ... that would be sweet Apr 27 13:02:52 on maximum uselessness always making it on the top Apr 27 13:03:00 i live in NYC ... that would be a really nice feature to have.... Apr 27 13:03:17 i know there is a map widget ... but goes to sleep.... and doesnt update unless you tell it to Apr 27 13:03:18 lirakis, until the widgets ontop cover your street and you get annoyed :p Apr 27 13:03:18 DocScrutinizer, it can be helpful Apr 27 13:03:23 That would be useful, yes. But that would mean you'd be able to use the device for 2 hours instead of 4. Apr 27 13:03:30 lcuk ... for quick reference Apr 27 13:03:36 * MohammadAG sets an exam presentation as a live wallpaper Apr 27 13:03:37 MiXu-, its not forced Apr 27 13:03:39 MiXu-, if you used coarse location? Apr 27 13:03:54 some people sit with devices plugged in and WANT to run supreme quick idle time things Apr 27 13:04:06 lirakis: Hmm. Good point. Apr 27 13:04:08 MohammadAG, I was thinking reloading batteries. :) Apr 27 13:04:16 It would still have to update quite frequently to be useful Apr 27 13:04:19 lirakis, of course Apr 27 13:04:28 mece, still, seriously? lol Apr 27 13:04:29 MiXu-, yeah .. every 5 min. or some thing Apr 27 13:04:33 yes Apr 27 13:04:43 i mean.. ive seen it on the nexus one - its pretty sweet Apr 27 13:04:47 MiXu-: I did a 0th cut of that - but I accidentally deelted the script Apr 27 13:04:51 MohammadAG, err. no. not seriously. Your gunbelt of batteries talk just reminded me of that. Apr 27 13:05:09 ooh f*********ck Apr 27 13:05:16 MiXu-: starting maemo mapper brings up the GPS Apr 27 13:05:21 Might be an idea worth developing Apr 27 13:05:35 MiXu-: then you kill it a little bit later, and read the current possition from gcong Apr 27 13:05:36 f Apr 27 13:05:51 getting a couple of tiles from openstreetmap is then quite easy Apr 27 13:05:53 I do wish there was a good google maps app.... its really, almost pointless to work with ovi ... they are light years behind Apr 27 13:05:54 DocScrutinizer, what the f********ck is up? Apr 27 13:06:21 almost as cute as a torchlight app creating a white screen with the help of 42MB libliq Apr 27 13:06:31 lol Apr 27 13:06:34 oi! Apr 27 13:06:34 live wallpapers :-( Apr 27 13:06:40 i reduced the size, its 41mb now Apr 27 13:06:42 DocScrutinizer: Well said :D Apr 27 13:06:46 LOOOOL Apr 27 13:07:05 DocScrutinizer: what's wrong with them? Apr 27 13:07:19 lcuk the widget would be for quick reference, and basically keeping your location up to date - so if you tapped on it, it would load the "real" maps app with your location already populated -hopefully making it start quite quickly since it doesnt have to get a lock Apr 27 13:07:40 wazd, he hates live trees Apr 27 13:08:05 MohammadAG: ah, never mind then :D Apr 27 13:08:08 lirakis, then that already exists as a widget tho? as a live background sure its feasible tho Apr 27 13:08:14 basically... if the current maps widget could go full screen on the lowest layer and not sleep.. Apr 27 13:08:18 'while true; do $(( 331 / 113 )); done -> teawarmer app (much better than live wallpaper) Apr 27 13:09:02 DocScrooge - should we make you a pipe and slippers app? :D Apr 27 13:09:03 hee Apr 27 13:09:19 (wouldnt be too bad actually) Apr 27 13:09:28 DocScrutinizer, I'm so packaging that and putting that in extras devel. Apr 27 13:09:40 hi all , can I limit the size the RSS client consumes in the N900? Apr 27 13:09:55 so it will remove old RSS to make room for new? Apr 27 13:09:55 DocScrutinizer, reqrite it so that is requires libliq too :) Apr 27 13:09:56 mece: don't forget proper credit ;-P Apr 27 13:10:57 Actually, I have an even better idea. I create a random 300 or so Mb file and parse something from that. That way the download size is also epic. Apr 27 13:11:29 lirakis: that would use a ridiculous amount of power Apr 27 13:11:40 SpeedEvil: again.. with coarse navigation? Apr 27 13:11:42 lirakis: you need to poll every few mins Apr 27 13:11:46 my g1 can do it Apr 27 13:11:51 not wallpaper ... Apr 27 13:11:59 but i can leave maps open Apr 27 13:12:10 Lira: how often does it update? Apr 27 13:12:42 lirakis: polling every 60s - or when movement is sensed - isn't horribly hard Apr 27 13:12:57 SpeedEvil, not 100% sure, but it seems to look like its polling all the time Apr 27 13:13:44 hahahahahaha @sjgadsby frals Nothing for 4.5 hours? C'mon, you can crank out a good six or seven new releases of fMMS in that block of time! Apr 27 13:13:57 hehe Apr 27 13:13:57 Some of it involves stuff the modem does. Apr 27 13:14:05 SpeedEvil, I wish that was built into maemo actually ... a location updater with a system setting that you could specify the frequency of updating coarse, and fine locations Apr 27 13:14:21 lirakis: this is not controlled by maemo. the phone runs the GPS - which is in some ways annoying Apr 27 13:14:21 !)%("#)=)# Apr 27 13:14:24 So that all apps could just reference the system Apr 27 13:14:36 "hildon-home is not responding - do you want to close the application" Apr 27 13:14:43 yes! Apr 27 13:14:47 what - the - flying - fuck? Apr 27 13:14:53 yes ! Apr 27 13:14:54 widgets Apr 27 13:14:54 I never had that before? Apr 27 13:14:55 hildon-home is the window manager basicallt? Apr 27 13:15:01 err no Apr 27 13:15:06 that's -desktop Apr 27 13:15:08 oh Apr 27 13:15:11 yeah Apr 27 13:15:13 the desktop Apr 27 13:15:19 but seriously Apr 27 13:15:23 what the hell Apr 27 13:15:27 * DocScrutinizer moans at lirakis Apr 27 13:15:40 only widget installed == om weather Apr 27 13:15:52 so appearently the security personel didnt appreciate me forgetting my bottle of water in my bag Apr 27 13:15:53 (yes, I didnt have this problem until I installed omweather today!) Apr 27 13:16:04 frals: dude Apr 27 13:16:06 yeah ... having had a G1 and nexus one, maps and location are the biggest wins android has over the n900. Apr 27 13:16:11 frals: that's is no kidding Apr 27 13:16:23 o_O frals the security person who passed me through gave me a withering look as i forgot it and then laughed :D Apr 27 13:16:47 .helsinki was bad for security tho Apr 27 13:16:53 having to take big heavy boots off Apr 27 13:16:54 they said something which sounded v. rude in finnish first Apr 27 13:16:59 im surprised the guards didnt have gasmasks Apr 27 13:17:05 in egypt In egypt two weeks ago it was more like "Got water bottle? I got AK47, you wanna try me?" Apr 27 13:17:10 lirakis: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API Apr 27 13:17:23 when i answered in english they were like "do you have a bottle in there" and i go "opsi, yeah just water, you can have it no worries" Apr 27 13:17:28 tybollt: the water bottle thing is ridiculous Apr 27 13:17:43 tybollt: especially given that if you're motivated, you could conceal one. Apr 27 13:17:45 she realised i wasnt a bomber i think because after that i got to go :p Apr 27 13:17:49 DocScrutinizer, checking it out Apr 27 13:17:54 SpeedEvil: Sir, I do not fuck around w/ an egyptian dude pointing an AK47 at me :-) Apr 27 13:17:57 lolcation api? Apr 27 13:18:07 err.. i mean... Apr 27 13:18:15 SpeedEvil: but yes - I entirely agree w/ you. Apr 27 13:18:26 its kinda wonky that the core is c and the qt is c++ (shrug) Apr 27 13:18:53 also, easy to spot the swedes here Apr 27 13:19:04 everyone one with a sony ericsson phone has been speaking swedish :D Apr 27 13:20:06 DocScrutinizer, so i see it "Shares" fixes via a signal - but is there any way to specify update increments? Apr 27 13:20:18 oops Apr 27 13:20:24 just needed to keep reading Apr 27 13:20:28 ... one momnet :P Apr 27 13:20:30 yessir Apr 27 13:22:43 So, there is no built in location daemon in the system ? Apr 27 13:23:10 lirakis: yes - it's location proxy - and it shares it by dbus Apr 27 13:23:29 lirakis: this talks to the cellphone - which runs the GPS Apr 27 13:24:03 SpeedEvil, so... why on earth does OVI maps take so long to start up and get a fix? Apr 27 13:25:06 and why on earth does it insist on using gps when i have gps disabled in my system settings Apr 27 13:25:43 lirakis: GPS disabled? Apr 27 13:25:44 why? Apr 27 13:26:05 SpeedEvil, b/c i live in NYC and i can never get a gps fix Apr 27 13:26:13 ... or rather.. i can rarely Apr 27 13:26:22 have you tried? Apr 27 13:26:27 ummm.. yeah Apr 27 13:26:31 It will get a fix much more easily once it has once Apr 27 13:26:47 just now i have started ovi maps (well .. 1min30sec. ago) Apr 27 13:26:55 so you want to get a GPS fix in ovi maps - with the gps turned off? You have an external GPS then? Apr 27 13:27:05 and its still hasnt gotten a "my location" Apr 27 13:27:18 tybollt no .. i want ovi to use coordinates provided by coarse location Apr 27 13:27:24 network positioning isn't that great Apr 27 13:27:44 SpeedEvil, dude thats not the point Apr 27 13:27:50 its a lot better than nothing Apr 27 13:27:53 works for google maps Apr 27 13:27:54 yes it is pretty piss poor telling from my experimenting w/ googlers Apr 27 13:27:56 and nothing is waht i get with gps Apr 27 13:28:08 anssi: define 'works' :) Apr 27 13:28:10 tybollt i have a g1 and it works fantastic in nyc Apr 27 13:28:10 lirakis: there's a flaw in GPS stored data handling that renders GPS quite useless without assistence over internet Apr 27 13:28:16 it is faster to have Apr 27 13:28:17 i get pretty close to 1 block accuracy Apr 27 13:28:40 i want to get out of a subway... start up maps and have it read a coarse location in 5 seconds and show me where the heck i am Apr 27 13:29:05 works here, with GPRS/3G Apr 27 13:29:15 DocScrutinizer what works? Apr 27 13:29:15 for the A-part in AGPS Apr 27 13:29:16 lirakis, personally i want location whilst still in subway ;) Apr 27 13:29:17 lirakis, handy after drinking, day after ;) Apr 27 13:29:36 lirakis: getting first fix in 10 seconds Apr 27 13:30:13 DocScrutinizer, assisted gps = coarse (cell location) ? Apr 27 13:30:21 For me cell positioning is ~3km off usually Apr 27 13:30:26 noobmonk3y, healthcheck gets course gps fix in about 10nanoseconds doesnt it? Apr 27 13:30:28 ACWP ? Apr 27 13:31:01 SpeedEvil, .. well i live in manhattan where ... its accurate to a few hundred feet, and gps doesnt work in any part of midtown Apr 27 13:31:16 lirakis: Assistance is a couple of different measures called 'A', usually it means to get a coarse position by other means plus the ephem&alm data over internet rather than over sat Apr 27 13:31:29 lirakis: that's funny, why dun GPS work? Apr 27 13:31:41 big building fsck with locks Apr 27 13:31:41 lirakis: all the tall buildings? Apr 27 13:31:44 cell accuracy depends of the shade areas, it is just triangular calculation. Apr 27 13:31:45 tybollt, lots of really tall buildings Apr 27 13:31:50 a few hundred storey buildings means you can't even see the sky Apr 27 13:31:50 ja Apr 27 13:32:04 DocScrutinizer, i have 3 g and data Apr 27 13:32:19 currently ... 3.5 g Apr 27 13:32:35 lirakis: the coarse position needs an accuracy of ~ a few 100km, to give GPS an idea which sats are in vicinity Apr 27 13:32:36 starting maps now Apr 27 13:32:50 DocScrutinizer, im saying i dont want to use any gps Apr 27 13:33:09 so why do you use it then? Apr 27 13:33:16 DocScrutinizer, blarhg! Apr 27 13:33:18 lirakis: have you tried the gps? And made sure it doesn't in fact get a lock - outside? Apr 27 13:33:30 (with cell assistance turned on) Apr 27 13:33:41 DocScrutinizer, i cant get gps signal ... yes .. i have tried. Apr 27 13:34:01 DocScrutinizer, on my old POS blacberry 8700 i could go to maps and it would use cell triangualtion to show me where i am Apr 27 13:34:21 lirakis: I really don't get it what's your issue then? want GPS without GPS, or what? Apr 27 13:34:36 DocScrutinizer, do you consider cellular positioning gps? Apr 27 13:34:42 lirakis: there's NO SUCH THING like cell triangulation Apr 27 13:35:06 sure there is, they use it in CSI all the time Apr 27 13:35:06 DocScrutinizer, android phones, and my old blackberry (which did not even have gps) are able to give me my location Apr 27 13:35:35 lirakis: mompls Apr 27 13:35:52 DocScrutinizer triangulation was a silly description ... "device is located based on cellular base station to which device is registered" Apr 27 13:36:09 "Assisted Complementary Wireless Positioning:" Apr 27 13:36:17 lcuk: yes appx Apr 27 13:36:25 i want to use that ... ONLY to get a general idea of were the F i am Apr 27 13:36:29 lirakis, install HealthCheck Apr 27 13:36:30 the course one is within 2km ish Apr 27 13:36:37 just see how it does for getting rough position Apr 27 13:36:44 lirakis: I won't repeat myself. Take a pointer instead : http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html Apr 27 13:36:50 tested it across the Uk and for me has always been within 500m Apr 27 13:37:51 lirakis: you're probably talking about http://www.skyhookwireless.com/ Apr 27 13:37:52 DocScrutinizer so what ? are you saying that is not a valid method of providing location? Apr 27 13:37:59 DocScrutinizer, NO I AM NOT Apr 27 13:38:16 DocScrutinizer, have you used a G1 ? Apr 27 13:38:28 no such crap here Apr 27 13:38:41 As I understand it the positioning the G1 gets is fed to it by the network Apr 27 13:38:50 lirakis: afaik there is a bug in the current version. you need to have a data connection open or it is nearly impossible to get a fix Apr 27 13:38:52 As a service. Apr 27 13:39:02 DocScrutinizer, well "such crap" does a far better job at providing location. and it does it without any gps Apr 27 13:39:12 fragment, i have a data connection Apr 27 13:39:13 fragment: I mentione4d that before Apr 27 13:39:19 oh ok Apr 27 13:39:19 when you buy an android, you sell your soul to google Apr 27 13:39:20 So, without the cooperation of the network - you can't get that sort of fix. Apr 27 13:39:29 MohammadAG, i had a G1 before the n900 came out Apr 27 13:39:33 ... now i have an n900 Apr 27 13:39:38 i had an n810 before my g1 Apr 27 13:39:43 ok... Apr 27 13:40:14 all im saying is OVI maps, and the n900 are so freakin stone age as far as maps and location goes its disturbing Apr 27 13:40:34 not being able to start up a maps app and have an INSTANT fix ... is silly Apr 27 13:40:45 worksforme Apr 27 13:40:46 no device gets an instant fix Apr 27 13:40:49 without s Apr 27 13:40:50 lol Apr 27 13:40:52 instant meaning 2/3 seconds or less Apr 27 13:40:52 etx Apr 27 13:40:54 a data connection Apr 27 13:40:57 MohammadAG: it's entirely possible to buy an android phone and not sell your soul to google... my previous phone was an htc magic, and I'm not ruling out buying an android device in the next few months (quite possibly a tablet...) Apr 27 13:41:19 ccooke, they do everything w/o asking you Apr 27 13:41:31 sadly sony's pulling the same stunt on the ps3 Apr 27 13:41:47 lirakis, in that case you should probably also always have some satellites with you when you want to use the N900's GPS? which existing device can get a fix in 3secs? Apr 27 13:41:55 MohammadAG: "Everything" in this case being...? Apr 27 13:42:02 updates Apr 27 13:42:07 location gathering Apr 27 13:42:09 etc... Apr 27 13:42:10 andre__ the g1 Apr 27 13:42:17 read the privacy policy :) Apr 27 13:42:18 andre__ using cell bassed location Apr 27 13:42:18 ccooke: what you are suffering from is called 'stockholm syndrome' Apr 27 13:42:19 Hi, how i can create a custom emmc image ? Apr 27 13:42:23 lirakis: dunno about you, but maps gives me a coarse position within about 3 seconds of loading Apr 27 13:42:27 hmm. I should borrow the G1 from a friend again it seems then :) Apr 27 13:42:35 MohammadAG: ... er... all of those explicitly requited consent when *I* was using the phone. Apr 27 13:42:48 nid0, ill try rebooting this thing ... its not giving me !@#$^ Apr 27 13:42:49 lirakis: please get your facts sorted before messing up the channel here Apr 27 13:43:06 chem|st: ... okay, now I have to laugh at you :-) Apr 27 13:43:06 ccooke, how did the droid fix itself? Apr 27 13:43:21 chrome looks different on my laptop each day/week/month Apr 27 13:43:33 DocScrutinizer, i dont think you can discount properties of a device you have never used Apr 27 13:43:49 MohammadAG: I have no idea what you mean by it fixing itself? Apr 27 13:43:50 * zaheerm has a g1 also Apr 27 13:43:51 I CAN! Apr 27 13:44:01 and n900 gets a fix quicker than g1 Apr 27 13:44:06 you NEVER get a GPS fix in 2 sec Apr 27 13:44:09 ccooke: at me? I am not trolling around here stating facts that are proof of missing intelligence Apr 27 13:44:12 ccooke, idk, read about it on engadget Apr 27 13:44:16 DocScrutinizer holy crap dude Apr 27 13:44:20 i dont want to use gps Apr 27 13:44:26 how many times do i have to say that Apr 27 13:44:28 DocScrutinizer: technically, that is not what he requested Apr 27 13:44:33 so please STFU Apr 27 13:44:37 * MohammadAG gets a lock in 10-15 seconds, with AGPS Apr 27 13:44:37 cell based location was some years ago forbidden due terrorist threat afaik Apr 27 13:44:42 possibly 30 Apr 27 13:44:50 the other 15 are part of maps loading Apr 27 13:45:10 there could be tricks to improve lock speeds Apr 27 13:45:11 chem|st: ... so... stating that you don't "sell your soul to google" just because you buy an android phone is... trolling, and proof of missing intelligence? Apr 27 13:45:18 the problem is when you're abroad Apr 27 13:45:21 ccooke: but if I have to choose who to sell my soul to and would be forced to pick government or google I would pick google Apr 27 13:45:25 then using AGPS is too expensive Apr 27 13:45:42 of course, all of them cheating, but still Apr 27 13:45:48 rebooting phone to see how it works after taht Apr 27 13:45:54 chem|st: now, if I were to want to put an *entirely unjustified* label onto you, I'd be very happy to label you a victim of Amiga Persecution Syndrome :-) Apr 27 13:45:59 ccooke: I meant laugh at someone else who does Apr 27 13:46:13 chem|st: there are rules as to what govt can do w/ your soul. There are no rules for what googles can do w/ it. Apr 27 13:46:26 ha there, I remember my intent bug report. It's annoying that you can't say “don't try to connect *any* data connection” Apr 27 13:47:01 tybollt: true but the government bends the rules... with google I at least know what will run over me Apr 27 13:47:15 so i rebooted ... started ovi (gps is disabled) and it says downloading data/looking for gps Apr 27 13:47:43 ccooke: never had an amiga... Apr 27 13:47:43 ovi maps isn't useful for obtaining gps fix, especially not without agps Apr 27 13:47:45 (not read all backlog, but someone is expecting a gps fix without using gps?) Apr 27 13:47:51 There are laws about what Google can do, too. For a start, the UK and Europe have strong data protection laws. Apr 27 13:47:57 i get no little red dot that shows me "my location" Apr 27 13:48:33 chem|st: that google will run you over, break, turn, run you over again, ad inifinitum Apr 27 13:48:55 frals: I think so... I will try to once I figure out how it works... Apr 27 13:49:22 interesting concept to say the least Apr 27 13:49:27 tybollt, yeah .. i ditched the g1 when they stopped commiting kernel chanegs Apr 27 13:49:30 DocScrutinizer: also - some GPSs can indeed lock in 2s. Not cold - but warm. Apr 27 13:49:43 tybollt: yes, with the gov I expect the leave me running with a tracking device and a hidden cam in my eye Apr 27 13:49:46 lirakis: why did they? Apr 27 13:49:56 SpeedEvil: we're talking bout TTFF though Apr 27 13:49:59 chem|st: An amusing label attached to a bunch of Amiga fans (but could also have been used on some of the OS/2 diehards, who believed that it must have been a *conspiracy* that killed off their beloved platform Apr 27 13:50:18 ccooke: nice ;) Apr 27 13:50:25 and 10..15s for TTFF is roundabout as good as it gets Apr 27 13:50:31 SpeedEvil: it's all the question of how much do you want to cheat with GPS data. Like turning it on once in a while to have your almanach up to date or avoiding the fix to get cold Apr 27 13:50:38 chem|st: and not, say (in the case of Amiga), Commodore being utterly shite at marketing and the prevalence of pirate games :-) Apr 27 13:50:47 tybollt, i think they just maintain their own repository instead of keeping a branch on the kernel tree Apr 27 13:51:00 ccooke, i think it was just *piracy that killed beloved amiga :) Apr 27 13:51:23 Anss|: certainly it was the murder weapon ;-) Apr 27 13:51:27 ccooke: I love those iFans, keep me smiling :) Apr 27 13:51:35 * ShadowJK should go outside and see how fast he gets a fix with N900 and no network connectivity Apr 27 13:51:36 Anss|: there was few more reasons Apr 27 13:51:53 achipa: yes, or use A Apr 27 13:52:07 any how .. the n900 is definitely not as polished, and i question nokia with the meego thing... im willing to make sacrifices to keep "open" but... you know.. some stuff bugs me... thats all Apr 27 13:52:09 Anss|: but Commodore's complete... lack of an ability to deal with the market was a big part of it, really. Apr 27 13:52:37 ShadowJK: should I try right now? in office? my last fix was about 60km away from here... Apr 27 13:52:41 also, a trick would be to presume last fix, or, even simpler, to start GPS *before* Ovi maps starts loading Apr 27 13:53:01 ...and they did not put fpu/mmu to a1200 Apr 27 13:53:03 usually I get a fix when I want to geotag in less time than it takes Ovi maps to start up Apr 27 13:53:22 ShadowJK: maps starting Apr 27 13:53:24 The description of the "Network Positioning" makes it sound like it needs to either have the location in cache, or be able to talk to a server to ask "where abouts is CellID 0xAECD?" Apr 27 13:53:40 I wouldn't try it indoors even with agps ;P Apr 27 13:54:01 To be more serious: In every case of private information passing from me to google on the Android phone, there was a clear statement of the terms and conditions that I had to accept for the service. Some of those I accepted, some I didn't, but the choice was always there. Apr 27 13:54:14 btw alm / ephem (one of both) not needed with really decent GPS chips with a _huge_ number of corellators to scan all possible sats on all possible trajectories same time concurrently. This is what'll give you TTFF of 15s without A Apr 27 13:54:49 I tend not to mind giving away private information in exchange for something, as long as what I receive is valuable. Possibly this is because I know I have a legal recourse, should I decide to withdraw my consent. Apr 27 13:54:58 ShadowJK: it downloads the current cache from a stationary gps near by Apr 27 13:55:06 as each sat sends it's own orbit data every few seconds Apr 27 13:55:10 wtf @ "stationary gps" Apr 27 13:55:32 ShadowJK: I had it working without networkconnection last time I checked, right from my desk Apr 27 13:55:50 I guess you were lucky :P Apr 27 13:55:57 chem|st, do you commute to ISS or just resident there? Apr 27 13:56:12 Or the N900 GPS is really really good getting unassisted fix inside buildings... Apr 27 13:56:33 so: scan 512000 possible 'channels' concurrently, download actual position and vector off of 3 of them -> fix in 15sec Apr 27 13:56:45 lcuk: still eating my liquid pancakes.... Apr 27 13:56:47 ShadowJK: it's not bad, you know. Better than most phone gps units I've used, I have to say Apr 27 13:56:48 cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 is fremantle compiler? Apr 27 13:57:06 hrw: yes Apr 27 13:57:34 I remember it was getting the right building almost all the time at wessergasfabrik, which my HTC magic couldn't do at all Apr 27 13:58:02 then download athmospheric correction data during next 5 minutes and get a *accurate* fix after 5 min Apr 27 13:59:10 and I'm sure there are real cracks for GPS here in this chan, relative noob speaking here Apr 27 13:59:33 the test location gui is really nice to investigate GPS issues Apr 27 13:59:45 doc: cracks for GPS? Apr 27 14:01:26 chem|st: please check http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API -- the last good fix is cached in liblocation Apr 27 14:01:44 I tested an N900 in a phone shop today and noticed that many things -in the software- are very basic for a smart phone, even and entry level one. for instance there are only 2 profiles, silent and general?! did I miss something? Apr 27 14:01:47 ~curse sbox Apr 27 14:01:48 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, sbox ! Apr 27 14:02:23 smhar: No you didn't. There are only two. Apr 27 14:02:29 the main thing you missed is that the n900 is a tablet with really basic phone functionality Apr 27 14:02:33 smhar: yes, you missed it's not a smartphone. And you missed e.g. tweakr adding profiles Apr 27 14:02:43 the second thing you missed is the tweakr application that lets you add more profiles Apr 27 14:02:43 DocScrutinizer: or profilesx Apr 27 14:02:43 DocScrutinizer: my last fix is 9 days about 60km from here... Apr 27 14:02:54 so it might take up to 12 min Apr 27 14:03:05 I hate to say it, but tweakr profile adding sucks monkey balls. Apr 27 14:03:06 nid0: I disagree, actually. It's the nicest touchscreen phone I've used - and yes, that includes several of the obvious ones. Apr 27 14:03:08 smhar: if you want a phone - avoid n900 Apr 27 14:03:10 Unless it's changed lately. Apr 27 14:03:35 purely as a phone, i'd choose pretty much any phone over an n900 Apr 27 14:03:36 we will see... the maps app stopped looking again so I stopped and turned the location testing stuff on with gps only Apr 27 14:03:38 smhar: it you want expensive toy with glued phone then consider n900 Apr 27 14:03:50 fix Apr 27 14:04:07 chem|st: see ? :-) Apr 27 14:04:20 see what? Apr 27 14:04:32 I can live with two profiles. Apr 27 14:04:39 that was fast for just gps Apr 27 14:05:01 that was now about 8-9 minutes and that is fair enough Apr 27 14:05:03 Agps I suppose Apr 27 14:05:17 ShadowJK: well fast it might take up to 12 minutes but not longer Apr 27 14:05:21 hrw: Did you activate your newly created target? Apr 27 14:05:24 You know the menus for the "profiles" stuff on my previous "smart phones" have been so confusing I've essentially only used "silent" and "not silent" before anyway :/ Apr 27 14:05:55 X-Fade: I edited existing not created new one Apr 27 14:06:10 X-Fade: and after edit I landed in it Apr 27 14:06:16 I have now 7 satelites at view and 4-5 in use Apr 27 14:06:17 ShadowJK, LOL same here Apr 27 14:06:20 ShadowJK: I've found the bother of switching profile so annoying I only used the switch to silent, too Apr 27 14:06:23 [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/pkg/my-extras/mdbus2-2.0.0] > which dpkg Apr 27 14:06:23 /scratchbox/devkits/debian-squeeze/bin/dpkg Apr 27 14:06:24 I'd like to have an easy way to adjust the loudness of ringtones. That's all I'd need. Apr 27 14:06:30 [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/pkg/my-extras/mdbus2-2.0.0] > dpkg --version Apr 27 14:06:30 Debian `dpkg' package management program version 1.15.5.2 (i386). Apr 27 14:06:52 ShadowJK: MohammadAG I second that Apr 27 14:07:14 my sony had a hotbutton to switch silent and current... Apr 27 14:07:29 hrw: and no gcc? Apr 27 14:07:32 i only used general silent and vibra Apr 27 14:07:37 hrw, ouch Apr 27 14:07:40 [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/pkg/my-extras/mdbus2-2.0.0] > gcc --version Apr 27 14:07:41 sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc (GCC) 4.2.1 Apr 27 14:07:43 the N900 has a tickbox for vibra so... Apr 27 14:07:57 The thing about Tweakr profiles that bothered me was that it essentially adds complexity to managing profiles. Apr 27 14:08:00 TTFF after reflashing (virgin fix): ~30sec indoors Apr 27 14:08:01 I mean, what are the *serious* features missing on the n900? MMS is controversial, but a goodly portion of people have said they don't need it. Voice dialing is... situational dependant, at best. Anything else? Apr 27 14:08:11 smhar: if you want a nokia phone - grab anything with S40 Apr 27 14:08:16 instead of two places to change profiles, there are three after installing tweakr Apr 27 14:08:17 ~50m jumpy Apr 27 14:08:29 ccooke: mms is available Apr 27 14:08:33 ccooke: RSap...definately! Apr 27 14:08:38 ccooke: video call, voice dial, one hand portrait Apr 27 14:08:43 (I mean, I've been assuming there must *be* missing features, but never been quite sure what they meant) Apr 27 14:08:49 chem|st: I mentioned that :-) Apr 27 14:08:53 ccooke: SyncML is missing natively, but there's an app for it. Apr 27 14:08:55 ccooke: working calendar etc Apr 27 14:09:10 voice dialing isnt missing for me, no phone did like I wanted it to do so screw voice dialing Apr 27 14:09:19 video call I'll give you. Apr 27 14:09:21 ccooke, not really. more than "holy shit it doesnt have a ****" its more "holy shit, the **** on this thing is well basic" Apr 27 14:09:25 What's wrong with the calendar? Apr 27 14:09:28 missing stuff is calDAV Apr 27 14:09:29 and that applies to pretty much everything phone related Apr 27 14:09:32 hrw, well... I do not think phone requirements are big to satisfy Apr 27 14:09:35 particularly the shitty calendar Apr 27 14:09:37 I've had no problems with the calendar Apr 27 14:09:45 battery that don't dry out without using Apr 27 14:09:45 proper syncing of more than one calendar Apr 27 14:10:00 I've used the calendar a lot... not had any trouble. Apr 27 14:10:11 yeah, it works, it's just well basic Apr 27 14:10:17 Anss|: Lol. I'd like to see the phone that doesn't have that problem ;) Apr 27 14:10:25 now ~<10m to the point Apr 27 14:10:27 ccooke: try to import more advanced calendar entries... Apr 27 14:10:28 Or I have. It has a wire that goes to a wall ;) Apr 27 14:10:34 bug 6933 Apr 27 14:10:39 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6933 Alarm times are shown wrong Apr 27 14:10:40 missing PGP/GPG mime for modest Apr 27 14:10:44 the only real biggie for me is the lack of a proper office suite Apr 27 14:10:53 and the shite email client Apr 27 14:10:54 missing LOT of features for modest you mean? Apr 27 14:11:00 hrw: hmm. Possibly my workplace doesn't use anything so advanced; it's imported all my meetings with no trouble Apr 27 14:11:01 nid0: true Apr 27 14:11:02 nid0: Have you tried the documents to go or whatnot? Apr 27 14:11:05 that's been with internet (over wifi) and assistance enabled Apr 27 14:11:08 calendar is joke, mail is joke Apr 27 14:11:16 yeah, docs to go is just a viewer though, and only a free trial. Apr 27 14:11:18 ccooke: check bug 6933 which I told before Apr 27 14:11:28 at least a free doc-viewer would help Apr 27 14:11:56 http://img9.yfrog.com/img9/2096/67622729.png watch the speed and size =) Apr 27 14:12:00 losing my e90's office suite is kinda annoying for me Apr 27 14:12:18 hrw: out of interest... what do you *like* about Maemo? Apr 27 14:12:25 20s lock Apr 27 14:12:29 hrw: note joke but not what it could be, biggest fault is to put media cal and mail into non-free Apr 27 14:13:34 MohammadAG: let's bash all NYC residents claiming GPS doesn't work ;-) Apr 27 14:13:54 chem|st: modest is free Apr 27 14:14:17 DocScrutinizer, hmm, just disabled all gps, and cold rebooted (not a full reboot), it gets a lock in 13s Apr 27 14:14:34 ccooke: it is one step closer to my dream phone then my previous one Apr 27 14:14:34 give or take a second Apr 27 14:14:48 hrw: *grin* Good reason Apr 27 14:15:03 MohammadAG: the location data cache won't get void by booting Apr 27 14:15:17 DocScrutinizer, how do I void them :) Apr 27 14:15:29 other than reflashing, plehehehease... Apr 27 14:15:33 hrw, what else -phone wise- is lacking in N900? Apr 27 14:15:40 MohammadAG: ask SpeedEvil - he knows a tool to delete the file/whatever Apr 27 14:15:40 ccooke: I can hack some code for it, it has quite good IM integration (if you avoid twitter and facebook plugins), browser suxx less then s60 one but needs more work to replace opera mini Apr 27 14:15:50 SpeedEvil, ? Apr 27 14:15:57 Prioritization for phone calls isn't as good as on Symbian. Apr 27 14:16:07 smhar: phone wise as 'phone functionality' or as 'n900 to be used for phone'? Apr 27 14:16:07 hrw: ugh, I can't stand opera mini. But to each their own :-) Apr 27 14:16:09 * frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout Apr 27 14:16:12 It can take a long time for call to start if there's heavy loa´d Apr 27 14:16:20 smhar: nothing, I can call I can fwd I can reject send texts and mms... Apr 27 14:16:24 ccooke: operamini has awesoe reflow of text Apr 27 14:16:45 MiXu-: fwiw its still better than g1 when it was equally young. its only recently (1.6) that it could reliably receive calls while doing other things (eg browser or maps) Apr 27 14:17:02 hrw: possibly, but every time I've used it I've hated it. Something in the interface just *doesn't click*. Apr 27 14:17:09 sure Apr 27 14:17:14 hrw, n900 to be used for phone Apr 27 14:17:43 smhar: see, the thing is... the n900 is a *massive* improvement *as a phone* over my Android HTC Magic. Apr 27 14:17:57 * Disconnect wants a browser that works in portrait. srsly. no weird offscreen grey horiz scroll 'wobble' (when there's no horiz-scroll content, LOCK TO VERTICAL..) and no missing close buttons, no need to say "reflow" on every single window, etc... Apr 27 14:18:10 ccooke: what ver was the magic running? see above re phone issues in android :) Apr 27 14:18:27 Disconnect: 1.5 IIRC Apr 27 14:18:43 yah. Apr 27 14:19:10 hmm. Maybe not. It was cupcake. *goes to check which version number that was* Apr 27 14:19:38 ancient Apr 27 14:19:51 cupcake is 1.5 Apr 27 14:19:53 smhar: missing (compared to 1€ phones): video calls, voice dialing (especially during car driving), conf calls (or I did not found how to make such in maemo5) Apr 27 14:19:57 ccooke, never tried HTC Magic and did not like the Android Apr 27 14:20:00 Disconnect: well, yes. I haven't used it since day 1 of the last Maemo summit :-) Apr 27 14:20:00 smhar: thats from pure phone stuff Apr 27 14:20:06 ccooke: :) Apr 27 14:20:15 smhar: I liked the system quite a bit, actually. Apr 27 14:20:35 but the big problems with it: The dialing pad was slow to react and... just a little unpleasant to use. Apr 27 14:20:54 i've never even noticed the lack of voice dialling, <3 handsfree in my car Apr 27 14:20:56 when a phone call was active, bringing up the number pad required effort Apr 27 14:21:23 ccooke: you were running stock upstream image? Apr 27 14:21:27 and the phone kept locking during the call, so sometimes I'd have to unlock to get to the pad, which left my finger over a button, so I ended up pressing a button... Apr 27 14:21:30 Disconnect: yes. Apr 27 14:21:48 hrw: (conf) that's probably because conf calls over gsm are rarely found feature with european carriers Apr 27 14:22:00 ccooke, I have a programmer friend that claimed that to do a simple 'Hello World" in Android he needed pages and pages of Reading AND Coding Apr 27 14:22:00 they are? Apr 27 14:22:03 yah. it got a lot better with 1.6, although realistically it wasn't as convenient as n900 (or iphone or..) until 2.0, and most of that is cuz 2.0 hw comes with proximity sensors Apr 27 14:22:12 on the n900... the dialing pad is instant. Getting access to the number pad or toggling speaker phone - two of the biggest functions I use when calling - are nice big buttons that react instantly. Apr 27 14:22:14 multiway calling in the uk hasnt been anything special for years Apr 27 14:22:24 smhar: then he lied, the tutorial for hello world is something like 1.5 pages :) Apr 27 14:22:55 awaiting calls suxx on n900 Apr 27 14:22:58 smhar: http://d.android.com/guide/tutorials/hello-world.html Apr 27 14:23:13 the interface of the n900 when making a phone call is beautifully streamlined. It does the job and it makes all the important functions easy to access. Apr 27 14:23:17 That's good design. Apr 27 14:23:38 smhar: the issue is when you get into xml layouts. you have to spend a lot of time thinking and pondering, its a real pita. it works (kinda) and scales between devices (kinda) but.. Apr 27 14:23:55 hrw: ... how so? It's really rather good. Apr 27 14:24:17 I'd say Maemo would be better if it had a persistent message notification like Android has, sure Apr 27 14:24:30 but other than that... Apr 27 14:24:49 a notification all the time when there's messages you havent seen? Apr 27 14:25:15 the task switcher being lit up and the notification led isnt clear enough? Apr 27 14:25:20 apparently not Apr 27 14:25:25 to me that works perfectly Apr 27 14:25:38 but "no message notification on n900" seems a common complaint Apr 27 14:25:41 never really been sure why Apr 27 14:26:10 idiots to be found everywhere Apr 27 14:26:53 frals: I'd love an icon or two to tell you what sort of things were waiting, how many... Apr 27 14:26:58 i really don't understand what maemo's ui team was thinking. (esp browser) landscape - waste tons and tons of space by having a top bar, but don't do anything useful with it. (bonus, when you get a notification in that tiny tiny square you prolly can't find it by clicking it..) portrait, lose the bar and make you rotate back to switch tasks, close windows, etc.. Apr 27 14:27:03 it could certainly be done easily enough. Apr 27 14:27:33 hrw, ok.. are the limitation in N900 phone capabilities software related or hardware deficiencies? Apr 27 14:27:47 software Apr 27 14:27:55 smhar: thats a silly question Apr 27 14:27:59 Disconnect: nobody needs portrait mode, and it's absolutely no official feature for microb Apr 27 14:28:03 nid0: a basic device feature (long before android) is "tell me what I missed/what has happened. let me manage them in random order, and don't lose them until i say so" .. n900 fails that badly.. Apr 27 14:28:27 Disconnect: how so? They appear nicely in the task list Apr 27 14:28:31 DocScrutinizer: my sarcasm detector is trembling. or are you going to seriously try to tell me that google reader (and other mobile webpages) are better in landscape..? Apr 27 14:28:48 valdyn, well maybe, I am not really sure, but I know that the silliest question is the one not asked :-) Apr 27 14:28:52 Disconnect: the top bar can be switched off, so why is that a problem? Apr 27 14:28:58 google reader - what's that? Apr 27 14:29:14 valdyn: because now you can't get out of it without turning it back on. Apr 27 14:29:25 Disconnect: *I* can Apr 27 14:29:27 yes you can Apr 27 14:29:31 but thats beside the point I guess Apr 27 14:29:36 Disconnect: ctrl-backspace Apr 27 14:29:38 ccooke: if you get 2 emails (esp in 2 accounts), the task list says "@ email from {foo bar}" and clicking it (task list -and- notifications in one?? sigh) takes you to a random account. Apr 27 14:29:59 DocScrutinizer it is, cause it's inside it. and would be official with pr1.2 Apr 27 14:30:11 Disconnect: ah, that's definitely buggy behaviour Apr 27 14:30:12 * chem|st puts a ObamAEd flag on his hat Apr 27 14:30:56 valdyn, I meant if there are software related... no big deal here.. 'enhancement' may appear in the next release, but if there is something in the hardware no able to handle that.. then that is it Apr 27 14:31:23 "What is happening now", "What did I miss" and/or "what is pending" are different tasks. i have a blinking light right now, lets see what it says... (neat, it failed to autolock) ok "@ 18 30 mins ago Tiger Auto Auditor" .. click it.. it shows my list of accounts. Apr 27 14:31:33 no indication as to which has new messages, just account and sync time. Apr 27 14:31:41 smhar: if the n900 had some operating system like amiga os then it would be orders of magnitudes faster in some areas Apr 27 14:31:50 smhar: but such an os is insanely hard to manage with Apr 27 14:31:51 valdyn, something similar to the usb host thing... as I read once that it is disabled by Nokia at the hardware level.. not sure about this info though Apr 27 14:31:59 Disconnect: accounts with new messages are highlighted arent they? Apr 27 14:32:23 frals: both are highlighted. how do i find the message it just showed me..? Apr 27 14:32:24 smhar: almost (aor probably) all of them are sw Apr 27 14:32:38 smhar: the modem/phone hw seems kinda ok Apr 27 14:33:05 valdyn, well maybe after all there is hope in meego then :-) Apr 27 14:33:16 smhar: the usb-host thing seems to be another issue Apr 27 14:33:17 smhar: It even knows how to transfer data during calls. Few modems know how to do that Apr 27 14:33:31 dunno, ive never had a problem knowing which account got the email judging by the subject so couldnt tell you Apr 27 14:33:37 DocScrutinizer: every tethered gsm phone (w/ 3g) i've ever had can do that :) Apr 27 14:33:57 but if both are highlighted you got new messages in both so id assume youd be interested in both and just check Apr 27 14:34:01 Disconnect: I'm referring to 2G though Apr 27 14:34:12 for 3G it's a mandatory feature iirc Apr 27 14:34:25 DocScrutinizer: i was under the impression that you -can't- transfer data during a voice call on 2g. no matter how fancy it is. Apr 27 14:34:59 Disconnect: nope, incorrect. There's a extension to handle that Apr 27 14:35:22 and N900 has that extension Apr 27 14:35:33 but carriers dont seem to like it Apr 27 14:36:03 DocScrutinizer: yah does it actually work with real carriers? Apr 27 14:36:14 I'd guess carriers don't even realize when it's happening Apr 27 14:36:58 hmm. got a link to the extension? so far everything i've seen on gsm requires -lots- of carrier support. esp channel allocation. Apr 27 14:37:05 as it's mainly a limitation of the modem hw not being able to switch rapidly between channels Apr 27 14:37:55 Disconnect: sorry I'm talking out of my ass, never looked into the details Apr 27 14:38:33 yah thats what i suspected ;) Apr 27 14:39:15 I just got a basic idea about how GSM/GPRS works Apr 27 14:40:25 DocScrutinizer: 2G extensions made it possible and that is a feature both need the client and the carrier Apr 27 14:40:33 How do I get rid of the MMS APN that fMMS created? :P Apr 27 14:40:34 most modems (well, most phones anyway) will drop the data connection as soon as the transfer stops (eg page loads) and don't use keepalives, so they can receive calls/sms/etc between pages. saves some user annoyance ("whenever i open safari my phone stops receiving calls") Apr 27 14:40:42 I mean is there a UI way to do it :) Apr 27 14:40:47 and my guess is GPRS is allocating a certain number of timeslices/'channels', and voice is using a separate additional one Apr 27 14:42:29 DocScrutinizer: er, channels and timeslices are different. there is an extension that basically gives half-rate voice and half-rate data, but srsly - half-rate edge data is down in the rfc1149 range... Apr 27 14:42:44 X-Fade: any ideas? Apr 27 14:43:12 Disconnect: I know the diff tween channels and timeslices Apr 27 14:43:17 MiXu-: no, gconftool would be your friend here Apr 27 14:43:32 there are instructions somewhere in the fmms thread Apr 27 14:46:56 MiXu-: latest fmmms just hides that apn Apr 27 14:47:13 DocScrutinizer: actually, if this is what you meant by the gsm extension, you're half right. there is an extension (and at least one carrier actually uses it) to piggyback notification flags on the data channel. can't do both, but you can say "hey! stop data for a sec, got something important" - http://mobilesociety.typepad.com/mobile_life/2007/03/deep_inside_the.html Apr 27 14:47:28 • • Dual Transfer Mode (DTM) support for simultaneous voice and packet data connection in GSM/EDGE Apr 27 14:47:29 networks. Simple class A, multi slot class 32, max speed DL/UL: 296/177.6 kbits/s Apr 27 14:47:31 • GPRS class A, multi slot class 32 (Max Sum 6), max speed DL/UL= 107/64.2 kbits/s Apr 27 14:48:27 anything that says "class a" is using 2 different hardware radios. srsly. you don't want that, esp in a mobile device.. Apr 27 14:48:27 (from RX51-L3/4 service manual) Apr 27 14:48:46 aha Apr 27 14:48:56 nevertheless we *got* it Apr 27 14:49:37 that's RX51 aka N900 specs, as of Nokia official service manual Apr 27 14:50:12 page 18 of 202 Apr 27 14:50:40 but we lost faith in nokia, i'm gonna write new topic about it =)))))) Apr 27 14:50:46 so now tell me I'm wrong Apr 27 14:51:07 'night all Apr 27 14:51:34 n8 crashy Apr 27 14:51:45 n8 crashanddie Apr 27 14:51:54 neight? Apr 27 14:51:57 :P Apr 27 14:52:05 or is that with the aussie accent? Apr 27 14:52:17 :-) Apr 27 14:52:23 with the ozzy accent Apr 27 14:52:34 noth bavarian aussie accent ;-) Apr 27 14:52:41 north even Apr 27 14:53:25 i -really- doubt the n900 has 2 radios. "simple class a" may be code for "half-rate voice and half-rate data" (see above) Apr 27 14:53:26 I'd say naight like west yorkshire accent Apr 27 14:53:39 (sorry, got eaten by life briefly) Apr 27 14:54:04 Disconnect: I guess it got 4 at least Apr 27 14:54:21 chem|st: 4 gsm radios? srsly? Apr 27 14:54:33 * Disconnect would guess that thats kinda a dumbass assumption ;) Apr 27 14:54:33 Disconnect: or it's a timesharing scheme as suggested by me before Apr 27 14:54:58 2gsm 1wifi 1fm Apr 27 14:55:30 chem|st: ok. explain to me what its gonna do with 2 gsm radios. (3g is a superset of edge/etc. so thats one radio. where's the other?) Apr 27 14:56:54 * DocScrutinizer wonders what 14WAAKH22 might mean in Finland Apr 27 14:57:09 Ovi Store will be accepting applications created with the Nokia Qt SDK in the near future. Stay tuned for more announcements and instructions on submitting. <<<< interesting ... Apr 27 14:57:17 DocScrutinizer, same as everywhere in world? Apr 27 14:57:18 DocScrutinizer: yah. dtm - thats the 'half-rate' thing i was talking about (i got thrown by the "simple a" description) Apr 27 14:57:29 thought it got two antenas on two radios, but I could be wrong as always Apr 27 14:58:27 chem|st: ok. why? Apr 27 14:59:15 thats what I remember from service manual... but it could be another device Apr 27 14:59:17 GSM/UMTS has _one_ antenna Apr 27 15:00:04 then there's BT/WiFi, GPS, FM-TX, (fm-rx, well kinda)... Apr 27 15:00:13 antennae Apr 27 15:00:26 cell antenna, gps antenna, not seeing anything for the wifi or fm but still looking Apr 27 15:00:27 hrw: I have this in my sbdmock setup: config_opts['cputransparency-method'] = 'qemu-arm-sb' Apr 27 15:01:28 so you got 4 internal plus one plugin antennae Apr 27 15:01:42 plugin one aka headset Apr 27 15:02:29 X-Fade: what is sbdmock? Apr 27 15:02:30 schematics help a lot ;-P Apr 27 15:02:50 hrw: I'll not complicate matters for you by explaining that ;) Apr 27 15:05:07 X-Fade: I think that I will just gain 15GB by removing maemosdk as it does not work now D: Apr 27 15:05:51 hrw: Did you have a working scratchbox setup? Apr 27 15:06:10 Then it should really be a one line change and you are done. Apr 27 15:09:13 Disconnect: (3G superset of EDGE) really? Apr 27 15:09:21 X-Fade: when I run 'scratchbox' I am inside of it Apr 27 15:10:04 X-Fade: so which change? Apr 27 15:10:19 sb-menu Apr 27 15:10:26 Disconnect: aiui GSM==TDMA, 3G==WCDMA Apr 27 15:10:46 X-Fade: and? Apr 27 15:11:12 DocScrutinizer: since you used wikipedia earlier ;) "While the GSM EDGE standard also fulfils the IMT-2000 specification, EDGE phones are typically not branded 3G" Apr 27 15:11:28 change the target config, replace debian-etch (or lenny) by debian-squeeze. Apr 27 15:11:31 Done. Apr 27 15:11:38 X-Fade: did that 3 times Apr 27 15:11:52 Did you actually install it before that? Apr 27 15:11:58 Outside scratchbox? Apr 27 15:12:03 Disconnect: err, uhuh Apr 27 15:12:04 X-Fade: I first installed outside sbox Apr 27 15:12:23 * noobmonk3y omg's Apr 27 15:12:28 hrw: The errors you see have nothing to do with the thing you changed. Apr 27 15:12:29 X-Fade: and dpkg in fremantle-armel sbox is from squeeze Apr 27 15:12:31 * noobmonk3y just saw someone downloading PR1.2! Apr 27 15:12:41 * noobmonk3y realises it is not April 1st - http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/25850&vid=185872 Apr 27 15:12:58 noobmonk3y: I do that all the time ;) Apr 27 15:13:10 :D Apr 27 15:13:15 DocScrutinizer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution#cite_note-ref1-0 ..yep. even says it right on the cover page. Apr 27 15:13:42 IMT-2000: (The ITU definition of 3G Mobile) - IMT-DS (W-CDMA-FDD) - IMT-MC (cdma2000) - IMT-SC (EDGE) - IMT-TC (TD-SCDMA) - (W-CDMA-TDD) - IMT-FT (DECT) Apr 27 15:14:14 noobmonk3y, PR1.4 too :o Apr 27 15:14:23 * noobmonk3y grins yay! Apr 27 15:14:38 and how's that related to the question if we need a separate radia for 3G? Apr 27 15:14:49 radio Apr 27 15:15:38 * noobmonk3y starts the rumour "You need a separate radiator to use the N900" Apr 27 15:15:41 I'm using 3G as a synonym for UMTS here. I don't care about ITU defs Apr 27 15:16:48 DocScrutinizer: ok we got a wcdma and a gsm receiver Apr 27 15:16:49 DocScrutinizer: every radio module we looked at (few years back unfortunately) that did umts/3g had edge integrated. Apr 27 15:17:27 noobmonk3y: I installed this, and now my n900 won't boot Apr 27 15:17:28 fine. Still EDGE is TDMA Apr 27 15:17:35 its one chip I guess and one antena Apr 27 15:18:25 SpeedEvil: - you need to wait for PR2.0 :( oh well Apr 27 15:19:38 X-Fade: magic then Apr 27 15:20:04 Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to talk.maemo.org Apr 27 15:21:25 forum is down? Apr 27 15:21:29 yes Apr 27 15:21:37 who did it? Apr 27 15:21:38 as usual :) Apr 27 15:21:38 you? Apr 27 15:21:44 bad bad boy Apr 27 15:21:53 whatever gremlins take it down every day, I guess Apr 27 15:21:55 chem|st: I told it's one antenna Apr 27 15:22:12 chem|st: it's roundabout 5 chips though Apr 27 15:22:48 when you'll get part for phones Apr 27 15:22:54 like for laptops or desctops? Apr 27 15:23:02 nid0: not gremlins, daemons :) Apr 27 15:23:19 (in all senses of the word) Apr 27 15:23:53 you come to store and say : hey can i get this cpu for my phone? does my bla-bla-blah motherboard supoorts it? Apr 27 15:24:09 not anytime soon Apr 27 15:24:27 i don't think so Apr 27 15:24:35 not like i described but anyway Apr 27 15:24:40 it would be like laptops soon Apr 27 15:25:09 when you actually can change parts and have different configurations Apr 27 15:25:21 and than you get different oses as well =) Apr 27 15:25:24 its an ASIC with both GSM&WCDMA in it like BTHFM-ASIC has BT and FM Apr 27 15:26:23 chem|st: yes. Apr 27 15:26:36 I would call those two asics 4 radios with 3 antenas Apr 27 15:27:12 chem|st: well, I don't see the point in arguing about that Apr 27 15:27:43 so we got 5 radios plus gps-rx and 4 +headset antenas Apr 27 15:27:46 chem|st: call it whatever you want. For details refer to the schematics and datasheets Apr 27 15:27:55 hum, isn't there a way of changing the default view for the calendar? Apr 27 15:28:14 I don't like the agenda format Apr 27 15:28:29 nah it was just the 'are you serious that we have 2 gsm' well we got one gsm and one wcdma... Apr 27 15:28:35 I would like to see a weekly or monthly calendar by default when I open the calendar. Apr 27 15:28:37 wtf Apr 27 15:28:42 the N8 has OTG Apr 27 15:28:56 says it has Apr 27 15:29:03 otg? Apr 27 15:29:11 USB On The Go Apr 27 15:29:13 also it says there is microusb and nokia 2mm charging ports Apr 27 15:29:26 the question if a TDMA is implemented in an asic as a separate function block, or they just switch the WCDMA blocks to a different operation mode, that's quite uninetresting Apr 27 15:30:47 anyway WCDMA isn't exactly a technical superset of TDMA Apr 27 15:30:55 why is it a symbian again Apr 27 15:32:54 [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > qemu Apr 27 15:32:54 /scratchbox/tools/bin/qemu: No qemu binary found. Apr 27 15:32:54 Have you installed & selected the CPU transparency devkit? Apr 27 15:33:04 that looks really strange Apr 27 15:33:20 hrw: Did you install it in the host? Apr 27 15:34:16 where do they put all that stuff? Apr 27 15:34:28 hrw: All packages are here: http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/stable/main/binary-i386/ Apr 27 15:34:30 X-Fade: I found issue - when I selected squeeze devkit I did not selected qemu one too Apr 27 15:34:46 hrw: ok, good. Apr 27 15:35:24 ~curse sbox anyway Apr 27 15:35:25 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, sbox anyway ! Apr 27 15:37:22 chem|st: for a specification POV it's probably most approriate to consider the device a blackbox and just see how many *independant* RF transmissions aka protocols it can send concurrently Apr 27 15:37:39 DocScrutinizer: true Apr 27 15:39:14 bye Apr 27 15:41:39 newer version uploaded to builder Apr 27 15:42:31 so Apr 27 15:42:35 wb javispedro Apr 27 15:42:42 hey Apr 27 15:43:27 chem|st: everything beyond is just a question of the particular hw implementation and the answer largely depends on the question you want to get answered. See e.g WiFi/BT, with coexistence - they share one freq and often one antenna, and it doesn't matter for anything outside the case if BT and WiFi share one transmitter ore are mixed together from two chips on one antenna or even use two antennae Apr 27 15:44:07 javispedro: does openvg require EGL? Apr 27 15:45:00 Stskeeps: theoretically, no. But on the PVR, yes... Apr 27 15:45:24 (an implementor could make their own EGL-like API -- see Apple) Apr 27 15:45:31 X-Fade: any plans to fix autocleaner? :) Apr 27 15:45:44 slonopotamus: Should be fixed. Apr 27 15:45:51 slonopotamus: Can you upload a newer version? Apr 27 15:45:52 javispedro: but it's basically just an API for rendering to a buffer i guess? Apr 27 15:46:07 it strikes again :) https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9902#c4 Apr 27 15:46:08 Bug 9902: Autocleaner purged _all_ versions of sflphone-client-gnome from extras-devel Apr 27 15:46:17 slonopotamus: Current one is a bit messed up and I don't have time to actually go and remove some things from the db. Apr 27 15:46:44 Stskeeps: it's basically an API for "setting platform specific stuff up". Getting surfaces to render into, associate those into display devices or windows, ... Apr 27 15:46:57 er, openvg i mean Apr 27 15:48:05 slonopotamus: If you just increase the version number, it should be fine? Apr 27 15:48:19 egl i know what does :P Apr 27 15:48:37 Stskeeps: yes Apr 27 15:48:54 javispedro: just wondering if there' potential in trying to get qt working on top of the drivers so there's -some- worth :P Apr 27 15:49:11 chem|st: how would you characterize MIMO? one radio with multiple antennae? or with one multi-element active antenna? or multiple one-antenna radios in one device? Apr 27 15:50:01 or maybe just say it's MIMO ;-D Apr 27 15:50:11 X-Fade: will try increasing, ok. Apr 27 15:50:33 X-Fade: that another comment is from 24th april. Apr 27 15:50:38 Stskeeps: doesn't sound like a bad idea -- http://lists.cairographics.org/archives/cairo/2008-January/012833.html Apr 27 15:52:40 * RST38h moos at javispedro with intent Apr 27 15:52:47 ehlo, slonopotamus Apr 27 15:53:12 hello RST38h Apr 27 15:53:47 heh sflphone :-) Apr 27 15:54:21 * wazd kinda opened cycling season :) Apr 27 15:57:40 DocScrutinizer: :P Apr 27 15:57:47 RST38h: hi Apr 27 16:00:29 OMG: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/04/iretrofone-base-iphone.jpg Apr 27 16:01:09 No rotary dial. Less weight than a nomad. Lame. Apr 27 16:01:22 Maybe you are supposed to rotate the iphone? Apr 27 16:01:44 Hmmm...AllAboutSymbian claims N8 has got 640x360 screen. Lame. Apr 27 16:02:57 * slonopotamus definitely likes latest xkcd comics on hdtv Apr 27 16:03:02 DocScrutinizer: "multiple transmit antennas are co-located at one transmitter" Apr 27 16:03:52 http://xkcd.com/732/ Apr 27 16:04:30 DocScrutinizer: the question is if there are 2 transmitters and there are no matter if they use one or two antennas Apr 27 16:06:10 someone can explain why return key on n900 isn t equal to QtCore.Qt.Key_Return ? Apr 27 16:06:24 the transmitters are boxed in ASICs, could be one could be two could be three ASICs doesn't matter Apr 27 16:06:31 Trizt: were you asking about broken identifer_strings_appearing_in_the_ui ? Apr 27 16:06:40 i just hit one today and will try to chase it down Apr 27 16:06:40 Khertan: it is equal to KP_Enter Apr 27 16:06:42 Khertan: its sending numpad_enter or such Apr 27 16:06:57 hum .... strange Apr 27 16:06:57 but thx Apr 27 16:07:10 Khertan: if you want something recognize it look for KP_Enter Apr 27 16:07:37 qt the portable framework where everythings need to be refine by plateform ... Apr 27 16:08:07 Khertan: but be aware that fakekey KP_Enter sends a KEY_Return Apr 27 16:08:10 well they are different keys so... :P Apr 27 16:08:29 youd prolly be better off matching against both key_return and kp_enter Apr 27 16:08:39 frals: true Apr 27 16:10:12 huh. Apr 27 16:10:19 non-removable battery in the n8. Apr 27 16:10:24 timeless_mbp; yeah, from the skype Apr 27 16:11:03 timeless_mbp; do you want it once more, the key name? Apr 27 16:11:05 I'm trying to build a theme with the "Theming for Dummies" -guide. It builds okay, but files go into the root of "/usr/share/themes"... Not in a folder. What is the problem? :) Apr 27 16:11:12 Anyone willing to help? Apr 27 16:11:28 nid0: "Possibility to use capacitive stylus" I dont care gimme resistive Apr 27 16:12:01 i m trying to understand how qt works Apr 27 16:12:10 non-removable battery in the n8. Apr 27 16:12:12 huh Apr 27 16:12:18 tbh, the n8 is looking like a smashing good phone overall though Apr 27 16:12:27 i have it in logs Apr 27 16:12:38 i have a simpler/easier to hit case which i'll use to chase the problem Apr 27 16:12:43 nid0: yes but missing two essential things Apr 27 16:12:55 such as? Apr 27 16:13:04 is there a way to traps return in a QTextEdit without trapping anykeys, test if return then do your method Apr 27 16:13:27 as it s kinda slow to trap each key Apr 27 16:13:41 timeless_mbp; good, but I keep the log until I see it's been fixed Apr 27 16:13:49 nid0, right, it's a good phone, with a bad OS Apr 27 16:13:55 * timeless_mbp nods Apr 27 16:14:07 not really. symbian gets far more stick than it deserves. Apr 27 16:14:07 nid0: a kbd and a resistive screen... and maemo Apr 27 16:14:25 it may not be the new shiney thing, but it works, it works really well, and it's simple to use. Apr 27 16:15:23 chem|st it's aimed as a media phone, keyboard's pointless, and most people want capacitive screens, because theyre generally much nicer as long as the ui's suitable Apr 27 16:16:23 how do far eastern folks enter text on capacitive screens? Apr 27 16:17:15 also how to make a widget similar to hildon.PannableArea in Qt ? Apr 27 16:17:21 nid0: well if Im not able to sketch properly I dont need it, the hdmi out is nice though, its an xpress-music successor though Apr 27 16:17:26 what is the widget name ? Apr 27 16:17:40 Is there a way to set the current n900 clipboard (copy/paste) through an ssh session? Apr 27 16:17:50 Khertan, open qt creator and look through the examples Apr 27 16:17:52 ofc it is, its a 300 phone, at that price it's aimed strictly at midrange and it has an assload of top of the line features nonetheless Apr 27 16:17:54 theres many ways to skin a cat Apr 27 16:17:56 lcuk: chinese handwriting recognition.... Apr 27 16:18:09 chem|st, bit difficult if you are finger painting Apr 27 16:18:32 i've just seen the gallery from it's camera, and that alone is a very good selling point Apr 27 16:18:37 lcuk: the kids learn to draw the chinese signs with their fingers first afaik Apr 27 16:18:45 chem|st, ofc Apr 27 16:18:52 but then you evolve and use a pen/pencil :) Apr 27 16:18:57 nid0, it looks very pretty Apr 27 16:19:08 how would it look with the 1000+ images ive got on my device Apr 27 16:19:14 lcuk : qtcreator not available on n900 Apr 27 16:19:24 lcuk: sorry? Apr 27 16:19:40 and anyway if ki ask is because i ve found example in qtcreator Apr 27 16:19:44 oh sorry I mean a gallery of images taken by the camera, not the device's image gallery Apr 27 16:20:12 nid0, the video demo shown hasnt got many photos in it Apr 27 16:20:30 dunno about a video demo, i just looked at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/04/27/first-12-megapixel-sample-photos-shot-on-nokia-n8-untouched/ Apr 27 16:20:41 it has a selection of full-size images from the camera Apr 27 16:20:57 cool Apr 27 16:21:54 this thing looks like the answer to sony's media phones Apr 27 16:23:05 meh Apr 27 16:23:09 updated my PS3 Apr 27 16:23:11 Hmmm those N8 photos are pretty damn decent for a cell phone Apr 27 16:23:12 :( Apr 27 16:23:44 agreed RST38h not bad quality at all Apr 27 16:27:34 I wonder what the reasoning is for the nonremovable battery though Apr 27 16:27:57 more like iphone Apr 27 16:28:28 hi all Apr 27 16:28:46 N8 battery not removable??? Apr 27 16:28:47 I'm trying to use the N900 emulator inside the latest Qt Creator beta, but.... Apr 27 16:28:51 * javispedro doesn't think the photos are that great.. Apr 27 16:28:54 is it just a dummy picture? Apr 27 16:29:00 full sunlight and still you can easily tell they're from a camera phone.. Apr 27 16:29:00 nothing works Apr 27 16:29:14 lol why is their an uncovered torx scren on the N8 Apr 27 16:29:20 screw* Apr 27 16:29:24 MohammadAG_, ! loving noor english ver Apr 27 16:29:28 I dont recall seeing any other mid-range phones that can match those pictures Apr 27 16:29:32 so they aint that bad Apr 27 16:29:33 javispedro: for a phone, they are pretty good Apr 27 16:29:36 Noobmonk3y, :) Apr 27 16:29:39 1 suggestion.... bigggggger icons needed Apr 27 16:29:45 javispedro: n900 does worse Apr 27 16:29:48 * MohammadAG_ updated his PS3, MW2!!!! Apr 27 16:29:51 RST38h: ofc. Apr 27 16:29:59 Noobmonk3y, will check that, qwerty12 made the smaller I think Apr 27 16:30:21 :) Apr 27 16:30:22 Of course, I would prefer a bigger sensor and better optics Apr 27 16:33:32 640x360.. hmpf. Apr 27 16:33:55 16:9, makes sense from a marketing PoV... Apr 27 16:35:51 yah...Ukraine is a polictically stable country, sure....(my $BigCorp-employer bought a part of a company there for the cheap labor on basis that it was a "reasonably stable" country) Apr 27 16:35:54 Andy80, Qt Creator 2 alpha doesn't have the emulator yet Apr 27 16:35:57 hence being an Alpha version Apr 27 16:36:05 works fine if you connect to an actual N900 though Apr 27 16:36:15 I'm using thr BETA not the alpha Apr 27 16:36:24 released today Apr 27 16:36:28 ooooooh! Apr 27 16:36:47 linky? Apr 27 16:36:53 * RST38h laughs satanically at the mention of .UA as a "politically stable country" Apr 27 16:37:22 http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/Tools/IDEs/Nokia_Qt_SDK/ Apr 27 16:37:24 javispedro: it is much easier, their S60e5 UI is not scalable Apr 27 16:38:28 I can see them just bitmap-scaling the screen to the 1080p on HDMI output Apr 27 16:39:04 hm... http://www.forum.nokia.com/pics/Qt_SDK_Sim_01.png Apr 27 16:39:20 Maemo Hamarattan? :| Apr 27 16:39:31 * Harmattan Apr 27 16:39:40 javispedro: seen interactive demo of that already Apr 27 16:40:01 i am guessing hd video playback will not be scaled down for screen and then rescaled up to 720p/1080i/1080p Apr 27 16:40:11 yeah, DUI. Though.. device emulator? Apr 27 16:40:31 http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Harmattan Apr 27 16:40:32 ah, simulator :P Apr 27 16:56:13 pr 1.2 *sigh sauce* Apr 27 16:57:46 * andrewfblack loves how people can't wait for pr 1.2 so they can wait for pr 1.3 so they cant wait for Meego 1.0 so they can wait for Meego 1.2 so they can.... Apr 27 17:07:39 * Trizt thinks his n900 is lagish after running for 9d without reboot Apr 27 17:12:14 andrewfblack: though the autobuilder screwup really was fail Apr 27 17:13:19 OMG, they *ARE* releasing a successor to E70! Apr 27 17:13:38 Shapeshifter: ?? Apr 27 17:13:39 ShadowJK: Rejoice! REJOICE! Apr 27 17:13:59 Wait. It is 320x240. Bummer. Apr 27 17:14:54 :( Apr 27 17:15:01 standard symbian these days I guess :/ Apr 27 17:16:05 Shadow: http://www.mobile-review.com/lj/2699.jpg Apr 27 17:16:27 what's that? A featurephone? Apr 27 17:17:41 now THAT's ugly Apr 27 17:18:50 320x240 is the number of pixels I'd expect on a wrist watch these days. Apr 27 17:19:10 andrewfblack, I want fixes Apr 27 17:19:14 i want refinement Apr 27 17:19:20 I want every incremental update I can get my hands on Apr 27 17:19:26 have you built them? Apr 27 17:19:50 all the open components have their pr1.2 source in gitorious Apr 27 17:19:54 I want a Pb2Au converter Apr 27 17:19:56 * javispedro has installed a few of them Apr 27 17:20:21 javispedro, good idea Apr 27 17:20:48 javispedro: you talked to MohammadAG_ ? Apr 27 17:20:55 about? Apr 27 17:21:01 * andrewfblack is only person who doesn't care about Pr 1.2 lol Apr 27 17:21:03 andrewfblack: autobuilder using pr1.2 way before any release ondevice Apr 27 17:21:11 PR1.2 components on N900 Apr 27 17:21:16 * javispedro doesn't care about pr1.2 but he's working on a pr1.2 library atm Apr 27 17:21:27 s/on/with Apr 27 17:21:38 Shapeshifter: thats true but they did same with pr 1.1 maybe not this long out but it was a week or two Apr 27 17:22:04 Shapeshifter: that should be pretty much fixed now (both Gtk & Qt+) Apr 27 17:22:06 well this is not a week or two Apr 27 17:22:22 javispedro: sur but it wssnt for like a monthe Apr 27 17:22:36 fail typing Apr 27 17:23:06 really? haven't noticed similar major problems when 1.1 came out Apr 27 17:23:08 LOL to rant about MWKN not putting enough PR1.2 news Apr 27 17:24:07 javispedro, they're holding out on us!!! Apr 27 17:24:22 Hello, bergie. Apr 27 17:24:27 evil, evil Apr 27 17:25:45 hey GeneralAntilles Apr 27 17:26:45 ah, sending stories to mkwn requires a twitter account =) Apr 27 17:26:53 javispedro: you talked to MohammadAG_ ? <- ? Apr 27 17:27:01 oh Apr 27 17:27:11 MohammadAG_: I guess he thinks you're a hardcore PR1.2 fan or something. Apr 27 17:27:22 is it the case? Apr 27 17:27:25 no, but I installed PR1.2 packages yesterday Apr 27 17:27:32 a Apr 27 17:27:34 just to prove the guy on the forums wrong :P Apr 27 17:27:57 javispedro, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=628580&postcount=264 Apr 27 17:29:14 well, keyboards are usually closed Apr 27 17:29:27 LOL Apr 27 17:29:48 I wonder why nobody tries doing a portrait keyboard, if there's that much demand. Apr 27 17:36:33 heh Apr 27 17:36:43 nice rip on apple by nokia asking for their n8 prototype back Apr 27 17:38:17 where? Apr 27 17:38:24 http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/04/27/one-of-our-children-is-missing/ Apr 27 17:39:36 nid0, just like the N900 preview. Apr 27 17:39:40 Eldar's kind of an idiot. Apr 27 17:39:57 I noticed that very quickly on seeing his posts on tmo Apr 27 17:40:53 lol GeneralAntilles Apr 27 17:41:07 re Apr 27 17:43:00 nid0: "culture of openness"? that wasn't the impression i got when I worked over there Apr 27 17:43:04 Poor Eldar, now he is gonna look like a kidnapper =) Apr 27 17:43:38 didn't feel like there was any kind of culture, actually. Other than taking an afternoon coffee at the cantine and looking at the shift change :) Apr 27 17:43:52 Wolfie: I didnt write the post, just pointed out the rather blatant scathe on apple's doings and handling of the 4g business in the last paragraph Apr 27 17:43:58 yeah, i know Apr 27 17:44:12 for some change reason i chose to reply to you nevertheless Apr 27 17:44:19 RST38h: next up is accusing him of abusing one of their children Apr 27 17:44:24 "strange", not change Apr 27 17:44:38 it's certainly a very different approach to the one apple took though. Apr 27 17:44:49 a better one, I'd say Apr 27 17:45:00 the milk has already been spilled... Apr 27 17:45:52 Stskeeps: Of course he had anal sex with that N8 proto! Apr 27 17:46:04 Stskeeps: I mean, can there be any doubt? =) Apr 27 17:48:11 how hard can it be anyhow - check all protos are accounted for, the ones which are missing.. Apr 27 17:48:30 except if he has a nokia friend :P Apr 27 17:48:52 just remote-enable the gps and fire a icbm Apr 27 17:48:56 Stskeeps: that friend may be in trouble now Apr 27 17:49:16 javispedro: detonate the Li battery Apr 27 17:49:20 remotely Apr 27 17:49:21 RST38h: probably Apr 27 17:49:29 RST38h: now we know why bme is closed Apr 27 17:49:36 twue Apr 27 17:49:58 But I am sure you can find the right /sys file to echo "boom" to Apr 27 17:55:29 Hi. I want to use n810 as portable microphone that can be used on other linux machine as sound input (-; Apr 27 17:59:17 m77771111, technically afaik you can use gstreamer and send stuff over the network Apr 27 17:59:28 but sure how far or simple to configure it is Apr 27 18:00:17 wtf is wrong with xchat now?. Apr 27 18:00:43 is there something wrong? Apr 27 18:01:02 see join-msgs of last few minutes Apr 27 18:01:37 prolly a restart might fix it Apr 27 18:01:42 scrolling back? too much work, no way. Apr 27 18:02:46 VDVsx, did you enjoy your kebab Apr 27 18:02:47 * DocScrutinizer51 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) <-- freenode hates you Apr 27 18:02:48 :P Apr 27 18:03:26 freggin bad luck Apr 27 18:03:27 lcuk, lol Apr 27 18:03:28 pizza Apr 27 18:03:38 FSSSCK Apr 27 18:03:42 cool stuff Apr 27 18:03:44 I miss Kebab :( Apr 27 18:03:47 Europe rules. Apr 27 18:03:54 if only for Kebab EVERYWHERE Apr 27 18:04:00 i dont recall you wanting kebab Apr 27 18:04:12 unless kebab is american for "sleeping on the bathroom floor" Apr 27 18:04:18 rofl Apr 27 18:04:26 kebab was my go-to meal for fast food :P Apr 27 18:04:29 how you doin rm_you Apr 27 18:04:47 rm_me Apr 27 18:04:49 for the three weeks or so collectively i've been in europe now (all for maemo) i've had kebab like 40 times Apr 27 18:04:58 lcuk: still very unemployed Apr 27 18:05:06 eep thats not very good Apr 27 18:05:10 wanting to do n900 development but feeling very directionless Apr 27 18:05:15 ABL isn't really necessary Apr 27 18:05:17 40 kebabs in 21 days mmm Apr 27 18:05:20 hate to say it but i think quim was right Apr 27 18:05:22 i bet the people on the plane loved you Apr 27 18:05:26 rm_you, lol. Apr 27 18:05:29 rm_me: In what way? Apr 27 18:05:30 rm_you, never admit defeat! Apr 27 18:05:33 lol Apr 27 18:05:34 well Apr 27 18:05:37 We need profiles and shit! Apr 27 18:05:40 * DocScrutinizer burps from kebab 10min ago Apr 27 18:05:46 Emphasis on the shit! Apr 27 18:05:49 in the... 5 months or so I used my n900 before it broke Apr 27 18:06:02 i used qwerty's quick backlight statusbar hack Apr 27 18:06:02 we need SHIT? Apr 27 18:06:13 need better shit Apr 27 18:06:13 and i still only ever changed the backlight level maybe three times Apr 27 18:06:16 the entire 5 months Apr 27 18:06:20 hello Apr 27 18:06:24 lcuk not found "gstreamer" in an application manager ) Apr 27 18:06:30 GeneralAntilles: lol i' Apr 27 18:06:35 gstreamer is not an application Apr 27 18:06:37 Super Hitech Information Technology Apr 27 18:06:38 its a framework Apr 27 18:06:41 GeneralAntilles: lol i'll get right on the "shit" then :P Apr 27 18:06:51 aha, acronym's day Apr 27 18:06:54 rm_you, I change it at least 3 times a day. Apr 27 18:06:58 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/simple-brightness-applet/ Apr 27 18:07:27 yes, that Apr 27 18:07:30 has at least pieces of you rm_you i believe Apr 27 18:07:37 * GeneralAntilles is rebooting into Windows 7 to play Stacraft II Apr 27 18:07:40 * GeneralAntilles feels dirty. Apr 27 18:07:51 i mean, qwerty coded that up in like two hours on day three or so Apr 27 18:07:54 then play other games then GeneralAntilles Apr 27 18:07:55 sorry, does anyone have "screen" package for diablo? I can't google it... Apr 27 18:08:01 and it works fine Apr 27 18:08:03 you dont have to just play starcraft lol Apr 27 18:08:09 the rest of ABL isn't really necessary either Apr 27 18:08:10 yes, he does. Apr 27 18:08:16 volume and such doesn't need to be compacted Apr 27 18:08:24 rotation support... well Apr 27 18:08:28 or maybe any repository where I can find 'screen' Apr 27 18:08:35 oli: tools repo Apr 27 18:08:41 rm_you: ABL is not the only widget that can be useful Apr 27 18:08:45 i was at someones house last night that has an upside down maemo and ABL wouldv worked Apr 27 18:08:45 right Apr 27 18:08:52 jacekowski: thank you Apr 27 18:08:57 RST38h: right, but that's why i said I feel directionless :P Apr 27 18:09:13 VDVsx, what pizza did u have Apr 27 18:09:14 no idea what to do now that my main project is basically dead Apr 27 18:10:01 rm_you, what did you do before abl tho Apr 27 18:10:04 rm_you: decent message box widget would be nice Apr 27 18:10:10 rm_you: current one is not even resizable Apr 27 18:10:19 lcuk: hacked on a2dp support for mplayer on n800 :P Apr 27 18:10:45 submitted a patch or two to mplayer for fixing it with video Apr 27 18:10:51 that's about it Apr 27 18:11:14 * javispedro ponders caring about Big Endian platforms or not... Apr 27 18:11:21 rm_you: then, decent rss reader applet Apr 27 18:11:28 the backlight thing basically fell into my lap. people were like "we need to change backlight levels" and i was like, k i can do that] Apr 27 18:11:30 hrmrm Apr 27 18:11:38 lol Apr 27 18:11:43 LOL, my ssh to N900 is still up and running, despite the device been well out of reach of WLAN several times for several hours since I logged in :-D Apr 27 18:11:48 alright, what RSS readers are available now, and what is wrong with them? Apr 27 18:12:01 I hand picked you to implement my master plan, you rube. Apr 27 18:12:06 lol GAN Apr 27 18:12:22 I suppose it worked pretty well then :P Apr 27 18:12:37 an RSS reader seems doable Apr 27 18:12:41 jott, however, was just luck Apr 27 18:12:44 lol Apr 27 18:12:53 jott I paid $20 to fix a problem :P Apr 27 18:12:56 and then he stuck around Apr 27 18:13:10 which was neat cause he was a cool guy.... wonder what happened to gim Apr 27 18:13:11 *him Apr 27 18:13:18 rm_you: well, there are several rss reader apps, but the thing is that there is no decent rss applet, that would show the maximal number of news, be configurable, and would not eat cpu Apr 27 18:13:26 hrmrm Apr 27 18:13:37 so Apr 27 18:13:46 very minimal RSS homescreen applet Apr 27 18:13:51 Hi Apr 27 18:14:00 configurable, too Apr 27 18:14:07 when you say configurable Apr 27 18:14:14 what would you like to be able to configure? Apr 27 18:14:15 size? Apr 27 18:14:16 use 2pt font Apr 27 18:14:21 for maximum density Apr 27 18:14:25 lol lcuk Apr 27 18:14:37 or is that too extreme - perhaps 8? Apr 27 18:14:40 RST38h: i don't use RSS much Apr 27 18:14:52 so i don't know what a good RSS applet would look like or behave like Apr 27 18:15:02 thats potentially a good thing Apr 27 18:15:19 but if you talk me through designing your "dream RSS applet" i can prolly whip up the specs and UML for it and go :P Apr 27 18:16:14 all part of that "requirements specification" stage of software design :P Apr 27 18:16:34 rm_you: ok, let me think of something else Apr 27 18:17:02 rm_you: how about a *usable* music player that lets you play files rather than tracker db entries? Apr 27 18:17:09 lol Apr 27 18:17:22 so, does its own indexing, or just doesn't index at all? Apr 27 18:17:29 does not index at all Apr 27 18:17:37 IE, a music player that just traverses the filesystem as you wish? Apr 27 18:17:41 i keep pondering nice and simple - volcano distance widget Apr 27 18:17:42 but lets you create and use playlists Apr 27 18:17:47 lol lcuk Apr 27 18:18:00 RST38h: aight. gstreamer fine? Apr 27 18:18:03 "you are 200 miles from nearest active volcano - RUN" Apr 27 18:18:06 rm_you: Yes. A *simple* music player. Guess so Apr 27 18:18:20 rm_you: iPod UI simulation a plus =) Apr 27 18:18:21 i could work out using mplayer as a backend but gstreamer is prolly simpler Apr 27 18:18:26 lol RST38h Apr 27 18:18:36 lcuk: like the belltower app? Apr 27 18:18:40 * RST38h actually started on this but did not have time to finish Apr 27 18:18:40 rm_you, yeah, he idled for, like, 6 months without responding to anything then one day he wasn't idling anymore. Apr 27 18:18:48 lcuk: i can only assume it is to warn you about possible crazy snipers... Apr 27 18:19:02 rm_you, yeah, but belltowers dont usually block entire continents Apr 27 18:19:02 GAN900: yep, i have his phone number Apr 27 18:19:10 GAN900: thought about calling him Apr 27 18:19:28 ~seen jott Apr 27 18:19:30 jott was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 564d 3h 4m 32s ago, saying: ':)'. Apr 27 18:19:36 RST38h: what language were you using? Apr 27 18:19:42 rm_you, dooo Apr 27 18:19:45 rm_you: C, as usual Apr 27 18:19:53 RST38h: yeah, figured :P Apr 27 18:20:09 there is another project like that, gimmea moment to find it Apr 27 18:20:13 i'm on more of a python kick currently, but it does worry me a bit still performance-wise Apr 27 18:20:24 rm_you, for regulat apps pyqt is seemingly getting better Apr 27 18:20:28 regular Apr 27 18:20:30 then again, it is a lot better than n800 for it Apr 27 18:20:45 famous last words :-) Apr 27 18:20:49 my C is really basic/minimal :P Apr 27 18:21:27 always a good time to learn i guess, right? :P Apr 27 18:21:59 it's just, whenever I use C i always feel like I'm going to have memory leaks everywhere T)T Apr 27 18:22:01 *T_T Apr 27 18:23:04 rm_you: never use new Apr 27 18:23:11 or malloc Apr 27 18:23:16 lol Apr 27 18:23:20 lol Apr 27 18:23:24 or goto? Apr 27 18:23:48 i know, i'll just call new a bunch and have a conditional goto before the deletes :P Apr 27 18:26:09 RST38h: admit it, you want a winamp clone Apr 27 18:26:35 * javispedro still uses winamp even under gnu for some reason he believes is related to the "Play folder" menu item Apr 27 18:27:02 javispedro: yep. Apr 27 18:28:33 rm_you: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-04-26.log.html#t2010-04-26T02:15:47 Apr 27 18:29:06 rm_you: CHeck this one out: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30901 Apr 27 18:29:07 hah Apr 27 18:29:18 rm_you: python is not the best choice for all sorts of projects Apr 27 18:29:25 actually .pyo "optimization", last time I looked at it, was just "removing the comments" Apr 27 18:29:52 (note that removing comments in python is not trivial -- breaks inline documentation, and some apps actually RELY on that) Apr 27 18:30:34 javispedro, noobmonk3y saved 20% of his startup by removing comments Apr 27 18:30:46 i wonder what a reduction in variables would bring too Apr 27 18:30:54 because to actually strip comments automatically you have to invoke the optimizer manually iirc Apr 27 18:30:56 with -O Apr 27 18:30:58 ie "mybloodylongvariablereference" -> "a" Apr 27 18:31:31 lol Apr 27 18:32:03 DocScrutinizer: yeah, i know. It's not my OneBigHammer, i'm just sayin' it'd be neat to get to use it once in a while for something :P Apr 27 18:32:10 actually, I read that they fixed this in whatever python version I have now -- -O strips comments but not docstrings, -O -O strips everything Apr 27 18:32:45 a finally back on the ground Apr 27 18:32:48 javispedro, did you see the python speedup thread Apr 27 18:33:07 so, media player, maybe not? Apr 27 18:33:11 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50737 Apr 27 18:33:14 VERSION null Apr 27 18:33:19 back to RSS applet? lol Apr 27 18:33:28 lcuk: think so, cause I remember somebody speaking about pros cons of python-launcher recently.. Apr 27 18:33:35 rm_you, mafw should give backend support? Apr 27 18:33:45 * satmd sees Apr 27 18:33:53 love when you get off the plane, as you arrive your luggage comes up and you get on the train back to the city and it leaves within a minute Apr 27 18:33:58 but use your own control to choose songs based on folder etc? Apr 27 18:34:02 frals, oh hai Apr 27 18:34:08 o/ Apr 27 18:34:19 speak of the devil! lol Apr 27 18:34:32 i mean, Quasar looks like what RST wanted, but already complete :P Apr 27 18:34:45 how many new versions of fmms did you build whilst waiting at airport? Apr 27 18:34:46 those evil python users! ;) Apr 27 18:35:14 none! Apr 27 18:35:17 RST38h: you seen Quasar? Apr 27 18:35:24 almost finished my book thou Apr 27 18:35:30 :D cool stuff Apr 27 18:35:36 speaking of book ive got one to finish Apr 27 18:36:16 first time in almost a year ive had time to read :) Apr 27 18:36:21 whats yours frals Apr 27 18:36:26 planes do that Apr 27 18:37:00 "bones" by jonathan kellerman Apr 27 18:37:02 rm_you: Yea. it is pretty cool Apr 27 18:37:04 * lcuk is just finishing the dreaming void and will start on the next one soon Apr 27 18:37:10 I wander if Qgil would freak out if I sold my N900 lol j/k Apr 27 18:37:20 rm_you: But it is not complete, not packaged for Maemo5, not being worked on, and uses mplayer Apr 27 18:37:24 frals, the book of the series? Apr 27 18:37:33 na Apr 27 18:37:38 rm_you: notice no-finger-scrolling and other problems Apr 27 18:37:49 andrewfblack: well, you'd be in breach of a contract :P Apr 27 18:37:59 rm_you: Adopting it to Maemo *well* and packaging the results would be cool Apr 27 18:38:36 Stskeeps: didn't sign a contract mine isn't a Summit one :) Just joking anyways Apr 27 18:38:46 RST38h: hrmrm Apr 27 18:39:29 lol, Quim said he gave a new device and my address to his secretary at the end of last month, been 30 days and nothing's shown up, so i guess i give up Apr 27 18:39:44 and now he's all Volcanoed along with the rest of europe Apr 27 18:40:18 rm_you: email him for the tracking number if its lost in mail he would want to know Apr 27 18:40:18 i can still do testing tho if i charge my battery in my friend's n810 :P Apr 27 18:40:28 I did email him, haven't heard back Apr 27 18:40:34 i think he got volcanoed in Apr 27 18:40:43 that Apr 27 18:40:47 that's what i heard at least Apr 27 18:41:54 RST38h: i'll look into that. i guess when i glanced at the page it looked like it was for maemo5 but i wasn't paying close attention Apr 27 18:42:10 not sure if my slider is loose, but...is the lcd supposed to wiggle a little back and forth when it is midway up? Apr 27 18:42:15 ah, yeah it's for diablo, k Apr 27 18:42:31 opdf2: yeah it does that on all of them Apr 27 18:42:35 a bit scary but "normal" Apr 27 18:42:48 rm_you: whew ty Apr 27 18:42:53 what it do/ Apr 27 18:43:12 wimax terribly sucks today.. it worked just fine a few mothns ago :-( Apr 27 18:43:39 Arkenoi: are you sure you weren't just like... really stoned a few months ago, and it SEEMED fast/working? :P Apr 27 18:43:51 when jake gets a hole in his pants Apr 27 18:44:00 he sticks finder in and shows us Apr 27 18:44:04 "look a hole" Apr 27 18:44:11 it starts off about 2mm Apr 27 18:44:19 and ends up being the size of his knee Apr 27 18:44:24 lol Apr 27 18:44:53 i think of that everytime someone says "X wiggles or moves or whatever" Apr 27 18:44:59 when i get a hole in the knee of my jeans, inevitably i start to put them on, get a toe stuck in it, and RIIIIIIP Apr 27 18:45:09 and then it's the size of the entire pantsleg Apr 27 18:45:19 rm_you: i am pretty sure Apr 27 18:45:19 did your toe cause the hole? o_O Apr 27 18:45:26 not to begin with Apr 27 18:45:29 lol Apr 27 18:45:38 cut ur nails to be sure Apr 27 18:45:43 i mean sure i was not ;-) Apr 27 18:45:43 lol Apr 27 18:45:48 my n900 won't charge, i've used three different chargers and also tried to remove the battery, but there's no orange light Apr 27 18:45:51 any solution? Apr 27 18:46:03 lol Arkenoi, never had good experience with wimax personally, so Apr 27 18:46:21 yuizy_: is the USB connector still attached to the device? :P Apr 27 18:46:33 yuizy_, broken mini-usb port? Apr 27 18:46:34 yuizy_: or stuck at sort of an odd angle in the usb hole? Apr 27 18:46:49 it seems ok, nothing weird Apr 27 18:46:56 look REALLY closely Apr 27 18:47:03 i once broke it really bad and got a new device from the shop Apr 27 18:47:08 lol Apr 27 18:47:17 rm_you: cdma-450 sucks even more, and i have no internet here besides these two Apr 27 18:47:28 :( Apr 27 18:48:03 hey thanks Apr 27 18:48:29 i pushed it hard and it started to charge Apr 27 18:48:39 but it won't probably last long Apr 27 18:49:40 yuizy_: yeah that's fucked Apr 27 18:49:45 go get a new device again Apr 27 18:50:02 and hope the person at the store doesn't look at you weirdly for "breaking" a second one Apr 27 18:51:05 yuizy_, broken usb connector is a warranty case Apr 27 18:52:39 even if i overclocked the phone? Apr 27 18:52:59 clock it back and pretend you didn't? O_o Apr 27 18:53:06 no connection between those Apr 27 18:54:50 right but try explaining it to a retail drone T_T Apr 27 18:56:42 sigh @ users Apr 27 18:57:29 rm_you, i just went to repair service with my n900. Apr 27 18:58:16 and? Apr 27 18:59:27 rm_you, and they replaced whole motherboard Apr 27 18:59:35 eep Apr 27 18:59:36 :P Apr 27 18:59:37 lol Apr 27 18:59:48 * SpeedEvil wonders what happens to the old motehrboards Apr 27 18:59:54 qt4-dev-tools: Depends: libqt4-dbus (= 4.5.3~git20090723-0maemo6+0m5) but 4.6.2~git20100310-0maemo1+0m5 is to be installed Apr 27 18:59:56 hrmrm Apr 27 19:00:00 using =dep Apr 27 19:00:04 they go to motherboard heaven Apr 27 19:00:39 reused as maemo.org servers Apr 27 19:00:44 ;) Apr 27 19:00:53 full of jumpers and various periferal devices ready to be connected Apr 27 19:01:04 motherboard orgies? Apr 27 19:01:06 * javispedro envisions a n900 motherboard cluster, matrix style. Apr 27 19:01:49 Stskeeps, well, they usually have more than one connector :) Apr 27 19:03:15 from the POV that I'd like to try to put the n900 in a silly box. Apr 27 19:05:44 * DocScrutinizer burps and reboots a few of the 770 in maemo.org Apr 27 19:06:25 does anyone know anything about the N900 proximity sensor? How does it know not to pay attention when I press the button with my face? More importantly, why is the magnet in my belt case affecting the screen even when key locked? Apr 27 19:06:54 SystemParadox, magnet affects keyboard lock Apr 27 19:07:12 SystemParadox, it thinks yoou slided out kb Apr 27 19:07:13 re the magent, its because the keyboard slider also uses a magnet. if you hold a magnet anywhere near the bottom right corner of the phone as you look at it in landscape, it thinks the keyboard's been opened Apr 27 19:07:30 SystemParadox: the proximity sensor is an IR-reflective active sensor Apr 27 19:07:32 if you have a case magnet, it needs to be away from the bottom right Apr 27 19:07:35 nid0, i was faster :P Apr 27 19:07:43 :< Apr 27 19:08:45 also the backlid sensor is a hallsensor that detects the little magnet that holds the kickstand Apr 27 19:08:50 nid0, oh, that makes sense. That explains why it turns off again if I move the magnet away Apr 27 19:09:26 DocScrutinizer, huh? Apr 27 19:09:37 lcuk, the aliens are mating! Apr 27 19:09:43 SystemParadox: huh what? Apr 27 19:10:24 SystemParadox: in other words there is a second magnet that does similar near the camera, but certainly with the magnet on my case, itll never trigger the backlid sensor, only ever the keyboard slider Apr 27 19:10:54 it detects the kickstand magnet? Is it supposed to? Does it use this information for anything? Or is this a fault? Apr 27 19:11:18 SystemParadox: the magnet is statically fixed to the back cover Apr 27 19:11:20 Supposed to do it Apr 27 19:11:21 ofc, its a sensor to detect that the back panel's on Apr 27 19:11:38 it's there to (primarily) unmount the sd card when the back's off so it can be hot swapped Apr 27 19:11:41 not sure if it does much else? Apr 27 19:11:45 ah that makes sense Apr 27 19:11:54 SystemParadox: the kickstand has no magnet, just a piece of iron Apr 27 19:12:23 nid0: first of all it toggles a sysnode Apr 27 19:12:26 ;-D Apr 27 19:12:27 the only thing I could think of was detecting the kickstand, but that would be impressive given that it's not the magnet that moves Apr 27 19:14:02 what the system does on sensing this state change, is another question. For now it's just unmounting the uSD afaik Apr 27 19:15:02 nid0, any ideas how to stop this from happening? It seems to affect it from the back too, though not so much Apr 27 19:15:22 keep the magnet away from that corner of the phone Apr 27 19:15:27 doing a sync;sync and freeze the system would also be nice, to avoid fs corruption on unadvertised battery removal Apr 27 19:15:31 or buy a new case with a magnet in a better place Apr 27 19:16:09 I have a landscape case with the magnet in the middle (kind of where the H and N are on the keyboard) and it doesnt trigger the lock Apr 27 19:16:27 what's the CPU tag for n900? Apr 27 19:16:43 like, for n800 it was: mcpu=arm1136jf-s' Apr 27 19:16:44 ah SystemParadox, you're in the uk? Apr 27 19:16:48 minus the quote Apr 27 19:17:02 ok thanks very much. My case has two magnets. Yes I'm in the UK Apr 27 19:17:21 I can thoroughly recommend Apr 27 19:17:23 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280476080517&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT Apr 27 19:17:32 dirt cheap, but bloody good Apr 27 19:17:38 I have a landscape with 2 magnets, but they are very weak on the inside of thew pouch Apr 27 19:18:10 i.e large MU-metal plates inside behind the magnets on outside Apr 27 19:18:35 rm_you, -mcpu=cortex-a8 Apr 27 19:18:49 thx Apr 27 19:18:59 GAN900, eep ? Apr 27 19:19:37 oO Apr 27 19:19:42 * satmd waves at radic Apr 27 19:19:49 I think if I put it in facing away from the magnets it's ok, although I end up trigging it as I bring the phone past the open flap lol Apr 27 19:20:05 tach satmd Apr 27 19:20:11 ;) Apr 27 19:20:23 satmd: was machst du hier? Apr 27 19:20:35 rm_you: i wish i could clock it back, it doesn't have any power left Apr 27 19:20:36 radic: na, hab auch ein n900 ;) Apr 27 19:20:46 satmd: tauschen wir? Apr 27 19:20:49 yuizy_: n810? :P Apr 27 19:20:52 wieso? Apr 27 19:20:57 ;) Apr 27 19:21:02 satmd: ich hab nur ein N800 Apr 27 19:21:06 :( Apr 27 19:21:10 nid0: So you take it out of the case to use it? Apr 27 19:21:13 no, n900 Apr 27 19:22:12 SpeedEvil yes, I purely have the case to carry it round in Apr 27 19:23:26 is there any way to get my personal data out of the phone before returning it to shop Apr 27 19:23:47 If I update my n900 abroad will it get some wierd localized firmware version. Asking because on vacation this weekend and would like to update to PR1.2 if it comes :) Apr 27 19:24:21 rm_you: you don't need to add a -mcpu setting any more; it's all handled by the toolchain if you use scratchbox. Apr 27 19:24:44 (unless you want to play with Neon, since toolchain defaults to VFP) Apr 27 19:25:42 any good sites that ship worldwide and sell the BH-214? Apr 27 19:26:20 When the n900 says "fully charged" is it still trickle charging, or there is no charging at all? Apr 27 19:27:24 opdf2: no charging, and it is getting discharged over time Apr 27 19:28:45 yuizy_: backup and reflash Apr 27 19:29:09 well, i need to get some power first Apr 27 19:30:51 btw.. quick question Apr 27 19:31:00 when pr1.2 is coming ;) Apr 27 19:31:10 2012 Apr 27 19:31:16 unified qt sdk requires it Apr 27 19:31:26 for n900 Apr 27 19:32:28 http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Nokia_Qt_SDK_v1.0_Beta mentions "Maemo tool chain supporting N900 mobile computer to be available together with forthcoming firmware update" Apr 27 19:32:40 you can also just pull qt 4.6 Apr 27 19:33:35 petteri: your special flavour will be retained on firmware update Apr 27 19:34:02 DocScrutinizer: thanks for the info Apr 27 19:35:27 yuizy_: i meant, do you have an n810? :P Apr 27 19:35:39 yuizy_: cause you can charge the battery in an n810 and swap it back :P Apr 27 19:35:49 that's what i've been doing for a month now Apr 27 19:37:09 so with the current sdk I don't need this line? Apr 27 19:37:16 TMAKE_CFLAGS += -O3 -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp Apr 27 19:37:20 other than the -O3 Apr 27 19:37:48 hmm Apr 27 19:38:12 You know things are bad when you have to recommend an iPhone because nothing else works quite as well :/ Apr 27 19:38:25 rm_you: -mfpu=neon ? Apr 27 19:39:32 johnsq: i have NO idea, i don't do low-level stuff usually Apr 27 19:39:53 i don't know much about the hardware / cpu / floating point unit in the n900 Apr 27 19:40:00 converting a makefile from n800->n900 Apr 27 19:40:10 rm_you: i use -march=armv7-a -mtune=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp -ftree-vectorize for OMAP3440 Apr 27 19:40:24 johnsq: thanks Apr 27 19:43:48 rm_you: wow, didn't know that Apr 27 19:43:49 cool Apr 27 19:44:18 yuizy_: yeah, so, you take the battery, line up the contacts, take out the stylus, and wedge it behind the battery Apr 27 19:44:22 it will then charge :P Apr 27 19:44:44 the hilarious part is that the description of how to do that came from Quim :P Apr 27 19:46:44 anyone have issues with wifi dropping/loosing connectino? Apr 27 19:51:00 can somebody answer a question about odd battery behavior on an n900? As I use the phone, I see the reported battery capacity stay at 100% and then after a day's use it all of a sudden jumps down to ~0 and demands that I charge it. The voltages reported by battery-eye and such do fall more steadily throughout the day, but it seems both should work. The phone is brand new Apr 27 19:51:28 anybody seen anything like this? Apr 27 19:51:38 original battery? Apr 27 19:51:56 never seen it Apr 27 19:55:46 yes. original battery Apr 27 19:55:46 I had it, it went from 50-60 to 0 in one go Apr 27 19:55:53 everything brand new. just got it 2 days ago Apr 27 19:56:14 MohammadAG_: always or just once. So far I've only seen this behavior Apr 27 19:56:28 once Apr 27 19:58:39 thanks Apr 27 19:59:03 after 10 minutes of macgyvering it started to charge Apr 27 20:04:36 jo Apr 27 20:09:20 re Apr 27 20:09:43 whats language? english? Apr 27 20:09:59 best bet :) **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 27 20:12:00 2010 Apr 27 20:14:10 anybody know about repository.marmo.org troubles? Apr 27 20:15:00 rapidsp, check your spelling Apr 27 20:15:12 is it just me or is planet maemo dead ? Apr 27 20:15:16 *maemo Apr 27 20:15:39 i mean on your device, just in case you misspelled it there Apr 27 20:16:38 i didnt change any settings... Apr 27 20:17:17 "Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'" Apr 27 20:17:21 Oh shit - ovi is such a PITA. Trying to share 4 photos of my pouch - setting up my own host with apache is way easier Apr 27 20:19:42 clicking share on N900 viewer I can't create a new album and just select 'all media' for upload location. And there's obviously no way to move those uploaded photos from private allmedia folder to a newly created pouch folder. Apr 27 20:19:48 fsck ovi Apr 27 20:20:11 i see nobody havent any problems with repository? my local problem? Apr 27 20:20:34 rapidsp seems the problem is at your side Apr 27 20:20:37 maybee akamei Apr 27 20:21:09 woglinde: thanks :) Apr 27 20:25:25 but 'apt-get update' is downloading something from downloads.maemo.nokia.com... very slowly... :) Apr 27 20:25:41 as I said maybe akamei problem Apr 27 20:26:00 nokia is using akamei service for world wide distribution Apr 27 20:27:43 may be akamai? Apr 27 20:29:01 I actually found ovi share to be not that bad Apr 27 20:30:42 nid0: ok, maybe I'm stupid. But how do I move a photo from one album to another? Apr 27 20:33:31 via the share site? Apr 27 20:34:05 if you have the thumbnail view of images, just select the dropdown in the bottom right of image in question, select add, then choose the album to add it to Apr 27 20:34:14 nid0: err huh? I don't want to send a mail to someone Apr 27 20:34:26 ooh Apr 27 20:34:28 or open the individual image, then select "add to an album" at the bottom and select the album Apr 27 20:37:04 nid0: thanks mate - seems I need a coffee and a valium ;-) Apr 27 20:38:30 though it probably doesn't matter anymore - here's my pouch (5.75EUR) works great despite 2 magnet snappers http://share.ovi.com/album/joerg900.pouch Apr 27 20:38:58 Hi... Apr 27 20:39:58 what happen if i do.... tar zxf fremantle-arm-sysroot-1014-slim.tar.gz -C / on my n900 ? Apr 27 20:40:20 rlinfati hm maybee the system will hang Apr 27 20:40:34 and not starting after reboot Apr 27 20:40:49 i want pr1.2 :P Apr 27 20:41:46 pr1.2 is now shipped? Apr 27 20:41:53 nop Apr 27 20:41:56 boo Apr 27 20:42:10 pr1.2: fix my wifi!! Apr 27 20:42:23 whats wrong with wifi? Apr 27 20:42:28 DocScrutinizer: ah nifty pouch, I guess those bigass metal clasps do dull the magnets inside the case somewhat :) Apr 27 20:42:40 yep Apr 27 20:42:57 no problems with slider sensor recognized so far Apr 27 20:43:05 my n900 need a re-flash.... but i no want install the pr1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 and a week after re-re-flash to pr1.2... Apr 27 20:44:51 whats wrong with doing an ota upgrade to 1.2? Apr 27 20:45:21 nothing.. Apr 27 20:45:55 so why would you need to re-re-flash to 1.2 when it's released Apr 27 20:49:03 btw PR1.2 is just 7:41 away Apr 27 20:49:07 :-P Apr 27 20:49:22 dco sure? Apr 27 20:49:48 heh... resolved by removing some .Packages :) Apr 27 20:50:29 hmm, Apr 29. -> HK release of N900-chinese edition with PR1.2 Apr 27 20:50:50 DocScrutinizer: I got the N900 after talking to you about it. Think it was a good decision. Thanks! Apr 27 20:50:52 is there an announce for the HK release? Apr 27 20:51:07 budfive: :-D welcome Apr 27 20:51:50 therwe is, somebody might still have the URL of the blog Apr 27 20:51:58 hm thats fake Apr 27 20:52:04 I truly believe Apr 27 20:52:20 maybe Apr 27 20:52:28 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Apr 27 20:52:44 this url? http://maemoarena.com/2010/04/nokia-n900-pr1-2-expected-to-be-released-in-april-with-n900-honkong-release/ Apr 27 20:54:15 Note: We are also expecting release of Nokia N900 in India this month. Apr 27 20:54:17 lol Apr 27 20:56:50 I hate Boxwave Apr 27 20:57:22 They release screenprotectors for the N900 the week after I get a massive wear spot on my RX-51. . . . Apr 27 21:00:17 GAN900, a wear spot? Apr 27 21:00:25 and also, what was that thing you said b4 Apr 27 21:01:51 * Arkenoi_ had one microscratch (invisible without really close inpection) on my previous n900 and none on recent one Apr 27 21:01:58 hi lcuk Apr 27 21:02:04 s/inpection/inspection/ Apr 27 21:02:19 lcuk, dunno what from, but there's a circular wear area on the screen next to the statusbar Apr 27 21:02:27 lcuk, stupid old Flickr reference. Apr 27 21:03:09 lcuk, a bunch of these guys were spawning when I was down at the beach. http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/2798380464/ Apr 27 21:03:13 I got pictures for you. ;) Apr 27 21:03:35 haha oh yeahh - now i remember the convo Apr 27 21:03:43 hiya woglinde Apr 27 21:04:05 i must get round to screen protecting my phone Apr 27 21:04:16 GeneralAntilles: replace ts? Apr 27 21:04:18 tracy has scratched hers already playing angrybirds Apr 27 21:04:30 DocScrutinizer, it's a proto, I'll just get another if it comes down to it. Apr 27 21:04:34 Since my earpiece is going anyway. Apr 27 21:05:12 beagleboard pics Apr 27 21:06:43 GeneralAntilles, the decals on the maemo porsche suit it better than the meego one Apr 27 21:06:49 Last N900 I got had 4 dead pixels; stuck on white. So it went back to Nokia. Apr 27 21:06:50 i like the grey trim Apr 27 21:07:09 lcuk, I still need to do the stupid MeeGoites for the MeeGo one. Apr 27 21:07:14 That'll pull it together better Apr 27 21:07:19 yeah will help Apr 27 21:07:19 It's really only half finished, so. Apr 27 21:07:25 msaemo porche? Apr 27 21:07:40 http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4263150331/ Apr 27 21:07:46 http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4263150331/ Apr 27 21:08:10 hmm Apr 27 21:08:14 grey and white Apr 27 21:08:21 http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4374755051/ Apr 27 21:08:23 that's actually good looking Apr 27 21:08:25 Should be the company car, provided by Nokia, for the council chair. Apr 27 21:08:27 * lcuk paste failed Apr 27 21:08:43 Hehe Apr 27 21:08:47 * GeneralAntilles could go for a GT2. Apr 27 21:08:50 * Stskeeps is tired about all the people who didn't do shit to contribute complain about N8x0 and Mer. Apr 27 21:09:20 stskeep what? Apr 27 21:09:29 * woglinde contributes to n8x0 Apr 27 21:09:31 Stskeeps: The number of people on tmo who think they're the community, but confine themselves to threads I never go near and never interact beyond these ghettos astound me. Apr 27 21:10:01 Jaffa, it's, like, 2 dozen people at most. Apr 27 21:10:07 Jaffa, they're just SUPER VOCAL. :P Apr 27 21:10:31 I love the expressions I got from Quim in the photos of his talk at LFSF. Apr 27 21:10:32 http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4524299016/sizes/l/ Apr 27 21:10:38 I wish that were higher resolution. Apr 27 21:10:46 'dieeee' Apr 27 21:10:46 ? Apr 27 21:12:22 GA: I love that it says "Collaboration" but all you can see is "Aboration", makes me think "Aberration" :P Apr 27 21:12:45 yay, i somehow got rid of the boot logo Apr 27 21:12:56 i don't know how i did but i never liked it Apr 27 21:13:12 the boot logo? Apr 27 21:13:19 or the boot animation? Apr 27 21:13:25 but only just for knowing if i want it back for some reason: how to put it back? Apr 27 21:13:33 the anim Apr 27 21:13:59 fiq take a hammer Apr 27 21:14:09 ofc Apr 27 21:15:22 GeneralAntilles: Nah, I wandered into the PR1.2 thread. It's like the overclocking one, but without the intelligence. Apr 27 21:15:41 theres intelligence in the overclocking? Apr 27 21:15:50 i suppose theres logical testing Apr 27 21:15:50 lcuk: Compared with the PR1.2 one there is. Apr 27 21:15:56 to some degree Apr 27 21:16:00 X-Fade: ping... I could do with 3 IPs Apr 27 21:16:18 abend Apr 27 21:16:32 jaffa i use the vaispy thing and just get a snapshot every now and then Apr 27 21:16:42 Jaffa: RWG thread ... :) Apr 27 21:18:09 Jaffa, ouch Apr 27 21:18:14 ARM Debian's package is usually incompatible with Maemo, often due to missing libs... why didn't N900 put those common libs in, or at least, the maemo community in some repository? except for the optifying, it shouldn't be any problems... or? Apr 27 21:18:25 packages* Apr 27 21:18:26 lcuk: for example - that's what I'd like some broken n900 motherboards for Apr 27 21:18:47 ? Apr 27 21:19:05 lcuk: getting them so they can boot, and locking them on max_volt and 1100MHz - and running folding@home on them Apr 27 21:19:12 FIQ: because ARM Debian is a totally different distribution Apr 27 21:19:14 lcuk: and see when the first one fails Apr 27 21:19:15 so i/we easily could add Debians repositories and get thousends applications available from start? Apr 27 21:19:22 hmm Apr 27 21:19:36 is someone here who can help me with the app fmms? Apr 27 21:19:44 they share package manager, but that's the only thing they share? Apr 27 21:19:46 all you'd need is for some upgrade of a core library to screw everything up Apr 27 21:19:56 FIQ: memory footprint is _important_ Apr 27 21:20:03 FIQ: effectively, yes Apr 27 21:20:15 some filesystem layout, but not much else Apr 27 21:20:17 ahh Apr 27 21:20:31 FIQ: you want as few duplicate libs on the device as you can Apr 27 21:20:43 fiq they share history, but theres maemoisms involved to make a lot of packages (especially those with ui) work Apr 27 21:20:46 though they had more things they share, but ok Apr 27 21:20:54 FIQ: Three font renderers for example - supporting different programs in memory - will use a lot of RAM Apr 27 21:22:38 lumdidum Apr 27 21:23:07 Stskeeps, does the mer being produced for joggler still boot happily on 900? Apr 27 21:23:42 lcuk: it's not really getting produced, it was just some way to use the codebase Apr 27 21:23:49 but the same OS works on n900 yes Apr 27 21:25:01 so, you have a cross platform (arm and atom) variation that kinda sorta runs maemo apps - does it have qt in it? Apr 27 21:25:16 qt4.5 Apr 27 21:25:36 and boots to a desktop? :D Apr 27 21:25:37 otoh, it will run hildon apps better than meego ever will ;) Apr 27 21:25:45 lol Apr 27 21:26:02 dare i ask - have you changed the packaging format yet or is it still deb? Apr 27 21:26:20 still deb, naturally Apr 27 21:28:36 * SpeedEvil wishes the joggler had halved, not doubled in price. Apr 27 21:28:59 heh Apr 27 21:29:00 it did half in price in january! Apr 27 21:29:08 Stskeeps, is qt just a matter of compilation Apr 27 21:29:12 within obs Apr 27 21:30:26 nid0: yeah - I mean halved again Apr 27 21:31:19 lcuk: pretty much Apr 27 21:31:26 but now i'm off to sleep Apr 27 21:31:30 gnite Apr 27 21:34:22 night Apr 27 21:35:28 is there a wiki page about running android on the n900? Apr 27 21:37:44 Hmm, I think my n900 is broken. I used it the whole day and the battery still has more than 50%... Apr 27 21:38:07 lol Apr 27 21:39:33 mh, btw I was wondering, hyperUI is pretty quick - will "normal" qt apps not written specifically for hyperUI also profit from increased speed or not? Apr 27 21:39:45 UI-wise speed (smoothness and that) Apr 27 21:40:02 hyperUI? Apr 27 21:40:08 he javispedro Apr 27 21:40:19 evening woglinde Apr 27 21:56:08 right, setting myself up for a beating: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=630615 Apr 27 21:58:19 * javispedro tries to guess what he missed Apr 27 21:58:51 javispedro, PR1.2 Apr 27 21:58:54 :P Apr 27 21:59:08 javis pr1.2 in honkgong or something Apr 27 21:59:21 and secure OverClocking to 2Ghz! Apr 27 21:59:29 lol Apr 27 21:59:31 I wasn't exactly thinking that ... Apr 27 21:59:32 secure Apr 27 21:59:44 Stskeeps, what's a distmaster? :) Apr 27 21:59:45 safe! Apr 27 21:59:56 MohammadAG stskeeps is one Apr 27 21:59:57 MohammadAG: my signature should help Apr 27 21:59:58 for mer Apr 27 22:00:05 woglinde, really? :P Apr 27 22:00:10 Stskeeps, well check it out Apr 27 22:00:14 wasnt stskeeps not at sleep? Apr 27 22:00:45 hm Apr 27 22:00:46 23:31 < Stskeeps> but now i'm off to sleep Apr 27 22:00:49 yes, he's sleeping. this is his dream. Apr 27 22:00:53 ... so people still think deb packaging is pure awesomeness... I just failed to build a package because I had *one* space between my mail address and the date in debian/changelog, instead of *two* spaces.... Apr 27 22:00:58 we're all dream people! ohnoes Apr 27 22:01:19 Shapeshifter where is the problem? Apr 27 22:01:27 or nightmare, depending on perspective Apr 27 22:01:30 dpkg is telling you that the format is wrong Apr 27 22:01:35 and of course it can't tell me that this was the mistake, it just says "badly formatted trailer line". Apr 27 22:01:42 Shapeshifter: vim syntax highlighting helps there Apr 27 22:01:54 woglinde: well if it knows the format is wrong, then it does know why and where. Apr 27 22:01:57 javispedro: true Apr 27 22:01:58 (happened to me like, 100 times) Apr 27 22:02:06 not to me Apr 27 22:02:14 I copy the last entr Apr 27 22:02:15 y Apr 27 22:02:20 woglinde: you can't be defending this behavior though ;) Apr 27 22:02:25 it's plain silly Apr 27 22:02:28 but now you knows Apr 27 22:02:41 send a patch Apr 27 22:03:02 woglinde: even the years old esr book Apr 27 22:03:13 .... has a rule: "whitespace shouldn't matter" Apr 27 22:03:33 Shapeshifter, actually adhering to a specific syntax - however silly to you - ensures that all tools built to that spec can continue to work Apr 27 22:03:33 javispedro haha python Apr 27 22:03:39 :) Apr 27 22:03:48 hmm Apr 27 22:03:59 * PR1_2 :-| Apr 27 22:04:06 tyboollt honkong? Apr 27 22:04:12 lcuk: well that is true. it also implies that the tools are outdated and unmaintained Apr 27 22:04:23 Shapeshifter lol Apr 27 22:04:40 no, it means that changing them for petty things that so far 30,000++++ packages use the correct format for would be silly Apr 27 22:04:49 and that you should just suck it and accept Apr 27 22:05:02 woglinde: heh :) Apr 27 22:05:03 Shapeshifter real master let the changelog generate erher from svn commits or git commits Apr 27 22:05:08 either Apr 27 22:05:10 naaaaaaa. RPM! RPM! RPM! Apr 27 22:05:27 woglinde, now that is an improvement :) Apr 27 22:05:42 * Shapeshifter disagrees and goes back to packaging archlinux packages. Apr 27 22:05:54 after I've ported curl to the n900. Apr 27 22:06:02 curl is here isnt it? Apr 27 22:06:06 or is that libcurl? Apr 27 22:06:11 only libcurl and the python bindings Apr 27 22:06:17 ahh k Apr 27 22:06:24 * lcuk used libcurl Apr 27 22:06:31 name rang a blel Apr 27 22:06:32 hello Apr 27 22:06:33 bell Apr 27 22:06:51 hi Macer Apr 27 22:06:56 lcuk sure learn about git-buildpackage or svn-buildpackage Apr 27 22:07:13 reminds me of putting git-buildpackage into maemo Apr 27 22:08:18 woglinde, mirroring changes for each commit into the changelog sounds useful Apr 27 22:08:42 * lcuk goes and has a read Apr 27 22:08:46 anyone here familiar w/ sb2? Apr 27 22:08:52 * timeless_mbp can't remember how to set it up Apr 27 22:09:03 done Apr 27 22:09:08 sorry Apr 27 22:09:10 Hi! Apr 27 22:09:22 Mh, I'm following the wiki in how to port a debian package to maemo and apt-get source curl failed after downloading the package with 'Unpack command 'dpkg-source -x curl_7.20.1-1.dsc' failed. Check if the 'dpkg-dev' package is installed.' I then went on unpacking it manually and doing some changes, but of course it can't build, missing lots of things like such: 'dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libgnutls-dev stunnel ... Apr 27 22:09:28 ... libkrb5-dev libidn11-dev libdb-dev (>= 4.7) libldap2-dev quilt libssh2-1-dev (>= 1.2) libgcrypt11-dev'. So, I though I might try installing dpkg-dev but this will now uninstall build-essential and like 50 hildon- and other maemo-related packages Apr 27 22:09:37 is there any way to tell modest to store emails instead of querying to the server each time I access to it? Apr 27 22:10:12 Shapeshifter I am doing this with lots of packages Apr 27 22:10:23 firs you have to change compat stuff Apr 27 22:10:42 for fremantle you can use debhelper7 stuff from extras Apr 27 22:10:44 * Jaffa plugs mud, which can help with this stuff. Apr 27 22:10:49 there is a wiki page about Apr 27 22:10:59 multi-user dungeons? Apr 27 22:11:12 otherwise you have to change compat and debhelper back to version 5 Apr 27 22:11:13 nite all, sweet dreams Apr 27 22:11:40 woglinde: okay thanks I'll look into debhelper Apr 27 22:12:01 Jaffa, do you foresee still using mud to work on mer/cross platform? or is it specifically tailored around scratchboxisms? Apr 27 22:12:07 (meego) Apr 27 22:12:30 but there should be libcurl already Apr 27 22:12:51 hm mud? Apr 27 22:13:11 woglinde: yes but not curl, the command line tool Apr 27 22:13:24 sure? Apr 27 22:13:33 woglinde: well I can't find it Apr 27 22:13:45 apt-cache search curl doesn't reveal it Apr 27 22:14:00 hm fremantle or diablo? Apr 27 22:14:09 woglinde: fremantle Apr 27 22:14:33 $ sb2 -e Apr 27 22:14:33 FATAL: kernel too old Apr 27 22:14:33 /bin/bash: relocation error: /bin/bash: symbol strlen, version GLIBC_2.0 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference Apr 27 22:15:13 you won't survive kernel too old Apr 27 22:15:21 it's a nightmare. Apr 27 22:15:46 yum Apr 27 22:16:27 Linux 2.6.16-xenU #1 SMP Mon May 28 03:41:49 SAST 2007 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux Apr 27 22:16:41 why is that too old? Apr 27 22:16:43 it's only 2007 Apr 27 22:16:49 i was using linux in 2000! Apr 27 22:17:04 lcuk: mud-built packages are, theoretically, abstracted from Scratchbox/deb/RPM Apr 27 22:17:10 * javispedro 's server is still using 2.4 Apr 27 22:17:21 lcuk: and could help with lbt's dream of "quickly re-package this upstream library for MeeGo" Apr 27 22:17:42 :) Apr 27 22:18:06 yeah - so its your take on what the autobuilder and obs do? Apr 27 22:18:09 * Jaffa 's packaging of python-evolution, for example, says "here's a tarball URL, go to it" Apr 27 22:18:27 Shapeshifter hm seems the maemo-maintainer cut the package out Apr 27 22:18:30 dont know why Apr 27 22:18:35 Jaffa: python-evo uses autoconf, or ... ? Apr 27 22:18:44 lcuk: Autobuilder is definitely complementary; but there's a lot of stuff whereby you can script the creation of the packaging specification *and don't need to version control them* Apr 27 22:18:46 woglinde: space saving reasons. Apr 27 22:18:56 javispedro: so um Apr 27 22:19:01 javis????? Apr 27 22:19:04 javispedro: Err, think it uses the `python setup.py' pattern. Apr 27 22:19:10 curl is sperate package Apr 27 22:19:23 depening of course on libcurl Apr 27 22:19:52 jaffa, im only thinking from a migration POV - you have a slightly different view on it and obvious experience :) Apr 27 22:20:05 timeless 2.6.16 is ugly old Apr 27 22:20:06 Jaffa: interesting, and mud handles creating the entire package automatically when the tarball uses setup.py? Apr 27 22:20:23 woglinde: it's a perfectly reasonable vintage! Apr 27 22:20:32 i was even working at nokia at the time! Apr 27 22:20:33 woglinde: well I love curl, I thought someone with more experience might port it but it's not happening so I'm trying my luck Apr 27 22:20:48 shapeshifter its ported Apr 27 22:20:55 Linux version 2.4.17_mvl21-malta-mips_fp_le (root@rhl) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release/MontaVista)) #5 Áù 3ÔÂ 4 13:37:03 CST 2006 is my oldest system that's currently up Apr 27 22:20:59 javispedro: Well, it's a *little* bit more than just a URL - but not much Apr 27 22:21:02 woglinde: where, how? Apr 27 22:21:05 but with out the curl package Apr 27 22:21:13 ... Apr 27 22:21:17 oh brother Apr 27 22:21:19 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_sdk_free_i386/libcurl3/7.18.2-8maemo5+0m5/ Apr 27 22:21:21 meego/bin/bash: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.25, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.25, stripped Apr 27 22:21:24 I'm still talking about the command line tool Apr 27 22:21:39 ask Aapo Makela why he cut out commandline tool Apr 27 22:21:42 so apps are built against specific kernel versions? Apr 27 22:21:50 what kind of insane platform is this? Apr 27 22:21:51 timeless: when ABI breaks, yes Apr 27 22:21:58 ... Apr 27 22:22:04 Shapeshifter on debian libcurl and curl packages are build from same src Apr 27 22:22:21 javispedro: can one cross compile to a specific kernel? Apr 27 22:22:25 i'm not moving Apr 27 22:22:32 at least, not in any near future Apr 27 22:22:36 Jaffa, that sounds like when david says "obs needs a .tar.gz and a .dsc file" Apr 27 22:22:37 dudes Apr 27 22:22:45 Yo! Texrat Apr 27 22:22:46 timeless: that's the "nightmare" part. Apr 27 22:22:49 yo ho Apr 27 22:22:55 woglinde: and you think asking him will get me curl sooner to the n900 then just porting it myself? Apr 27 22:22:58 * javispedro 's server is using 2.6.31.5 Apr 27 22:23:03 er.. Apr 27 22:23:09 wrong machine :) Apr 27 22:23:15 * lcuk server is using pr1.2 ;) Apr 27 22:23:21 lol Apr 27 22:23:32 Shapeshifter I would like to see it in a sane way Apr 27 22:23:36 hey, what about w00t' Apr 27 22:23:49 timeless: if you can set up a vm with the exact same setup --- way easier. Apr 27 22:23:51 w00t_ you mean Apr 27 22:23:52 w00t's theory? the more we mention "it", the more it's delayed Apr 27 22:23:56 and whats he done this time Apr 27 22:23:56 Shapeshifter wouldnt be good you compile it only localy for you Apr 27 22:24:05 javispedro: sorry, i don't have infinite resources Apr 27 22:24:09 heck, i don't have any resources Apr 27 22:24:17 hm I should give courses Apr 27 22:24:22 * w00t_ nods, sagely Apr 27 22:24:29 "writing good debian-packages" Apr 27 22:24:40 Texrat: it knows you wait it - and plays hard to get as a result Apr 27 22:24:53 damn the thing! Apr 27 22:25:09 if that's how it's gonan be I don't want it, sooo... Apr 27 22:25:10 woglinde: well can't I just do it in a way autobuilder can build it and upload it to the queue? Apr 27 22:25:13 w00t_, i fixed totally the git problem from last week Apr 27 22:25:20 woglinde: that's what I was planning Apr 27 22:25:21 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 Apr 27 22:25:23 all the maemo optify boottime patches are nicely on git repo now Apr 27 22:25:31 Shapeshifter nope Apr 27 22:25:40 I just delayed it to next year Apr 27 22:25:44 * microlith hits Texrat with a stick Apr 27 22:25:51 Shapeshifter as I said libcurl and curl comes from same source package Apr 27 22:25:52 * Texrat ouches Apr 27 22:25:56 lcuk: \o/ Apr 27 22:26:04 you would than have to libcurl packages in the repos Apr 27 22:26:11 lcuk: what repo? I might have a nose around sometime Apr 27 22:26:12 not good and not wanted Apr 27 22:26:25 args Apr 27 22:26:29 woglinde: oohkay Apr 27 22:26:30 s/to/two Apr 27 22:26:39 w00t_, maemo-optify-boottime on gitorious Apr 27 22:26:49 lcuk haha Apr 27 22:26:57 * timeless_mbp sighs Apr 27 22:27:06 so basically they left out this ~111K wonderful piece of software because... Apr 27 22:27:08 my conversion moved from jul 23 to aug 13 Apr 27 22:27:08 woglinde, ? Apr 27 22:27:14 i broke git completely Apr 27 22:27:17 so it did roughly 20 days in probably 20 hours Apr 27 22:27:21 driver error Apr 27 22:27:23 tsg meeting tomorrow bitches Apr 27 22:27:25 lcuk lol Apr 27 22:27:29 if it was a car it would be wrapped around a tree Apr 27 22:27:37 lcuk pointer to the patches? Apr 27 22:27:47 Texrat: i think i'll be @ an osol ug instead :) Apr 27 22:27:49 and the tree would fall over and knockdown someone elses farmhouse Apr 27 22:27:56 lcuk no Apr 27 22:28:00 woglinde, on the repo Apr 27 22:28:05 *sigh* Apr 27 22:28:12 which repo? Apr 27 22:28:44 gitorious Apr 27 22:28:51 http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime Apr 27 22:28:55 ah Apr 27 22:30:22 woglinde: whoa... the internets... searching on google for 'Aapo Makela maemo' lists *this* chat we just had on 5th place! http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html also, is this logging done with permission I wonder Apr 27 22:31:30 Shapeshifter it is Apr 27 22:31:42 lcuk clean up the rules file Apr 27 22:31:50 why you need dh_perl? Apr 27 22:34:04 woglinde, leftovers, if you want to raise a bug so we can put things against and submit a patch it would be easier - im not commiting *any* mods without discussion no matter how trivial Apr 27 22:34:55 better depend on the tools using in the scripts Apr 27 22:35:01 *g* Apr 27 22:35:04 * lcuk nods Apr 27 22:35:26 its not harming things Apr 27 22:35:36 lcuk: The maemo.org autobuilder just needs a .tar.gz and a .dsc file; but the .tar.gz need to contain a debian/ directory containing Makefiles with certain targets etc. Apr 27 22:36:05 jaffa o.O Apr 27 22:36:28 woglinde, ill happily run over anything with you tho so if you have questions etc after looking fire away Apr 27 22:36:47 because its something we obviously dont want problems with Apr 27 22:41:07 sorry now time for security analysis Apr 27 22:50:11 * javispedro reads Sts's review thread. Apr 27 22:50:21 javispedro: so... Apr 27 22:50:23 i'm screwed? Apr 27 22:50:27 * timeless_mbp sighs Apr 27 22:51:18 timeless: seems like your problem might be easier than mine, but wrong person to ask then (I don't know what changed between those versions) Apr 27 22:51:39 javispedro: any idea how i'd figure out the changes? Apr 27 22:51:48 google for linux abi gives me freebsd linux emulation Apr 27 22:52:13 years ago there was this .note section in ELF with the ABI version Apr 27 22:52:23 but I just check my binaries and it's not there. Apr 27 22:52:26 *-ed. Apr 27 22:52:33 so, dunno. Apr 27 22:53:27 sadly i don't have strace or gdb yet Apr 27 22:54:43 timeless_mbp: whatcha trying to figure out? Apr 27 22:54:49 ah, here it is. .note.ABI-tag Apr 27 22:54:57 rm_you: Stskeeps built me a meego tarball Apr 27 22:55:04 ah, neat Apr 27 22:55:06 i guess Apr 27 22:55:07 but it's targetted to a 2.6.25 kernel Apr 27 22:55:12 and i have 2.6.16 (?) Apr 27 22:55:30 so nothing runs Apr 27 22:55:31 is that public-esque? or internal? Apr 27 22:55:49 the tarball url is in the logs for this channel, i slurped it from here :) Apr 27 22:55:55 lol Apr 27 22:55:58 or there, however you want to think about it Apr 27 22:55:59 so, public-esque :P Apr 27 22:56:15 but … i want to be able to *use* it... Apr 27 22:57:18 i've yet to find an rpm distro that i consider "usable" Apr 27 22:57:25 maybe meego will finally fix that? :/ Apr 27 22:58:04 gnite woglinde timeless_mbp rm_you rest of maemo etc Apr 27 22:58:14 nite lcuk Apr 27 22:58:19 gnite luck Apr 27 22:58:32 timeless: without rebuilding it? you might need to binary patch it Apr 27 22:58:33 javispedro \o Apr 27 22:58:55 fedora seems quite usable for me. but it is desktop distro. Apr 27 22:59:12 timeless: and chances are it will fail to find some glibc function or the like Apr 27 23:00:55 if the n900 says fully charged and I keep the charger plugged in...does using it use battery or the AC? Apr 27 23:02:37 AC. Apr 27 23:04:03 if the n900 says fully charged and I keep the charger plugged in...does using it use battery or the AC? Apr 27 23:04:04 AC. Apr 27 23:04:05 DC Apr 27 23:04:16 check before you say something ;) Apr 27 23:04:55 javispedro: i'm ok w/ rebuilding libc (barely) Apr 27 23:05:07 so long as i don't have to rebuild the whole platform Apr 27 23:05:33 the charger converts AC to DC, no? :) Apr 27 23:05:52 it uses the battery but the use is minimal enough that it recharges almost immediately, IIRC? Apr 27 23:06:02 but the goal of the question was to ask "is it draining power from the wall or the battery" Apr 27 23:06:03 no Apr 27 23:06:11 it uses the battery and keeps dropping Apr 27 23:06:24 till it gets to some percentage, after which it kicks into charging mode again Apr 27 23:06:30 85% I think Apr 27 23:06:31 interesting Apr 27 23:08:10 You sure? I have batterygraph and the charger that charges so slowly that it sometimes doesn't charge at all on my desk at work. Apr 27 23:09:04 FauxFaux: are you trickle charging at 0.1 amp instead of service charging at 0.5 amps? Apr 27 23:09:30 I don't know! Apr 27 23:09:46 does it say 'charging' or 'mass storage' or 'pc suite'? Apr 27 23:09:56 Assumably charging. Apr 27 23:10:06 charging is bad Apr 27 23:10:11 it's a terrible translation Apr 27 23:10:17 it's really "trickle charging" Apr 27 23:10:51 The fast charger says "Charging" too. Apr 27 23:11:01 yeah well Apr 27 23:11:30 there's a big difference between 1.2 amps and 0.1 amps! Apr 27 23:11:57 Iirc the slow charger is 320ma. Apr 27 23:12:09 ? Apr 27 23:12:28 usb lets devices draw 100ma w/o providing a service Apr 27 23:12:37 if they provide a service, they can draw up to 500ma Apr 27 23:12:47 timeless_mbp: weird. never knew that Apr 27 23:12:55 which? Apr 27 23:13:00 By "slow charger" I mean "the older-style hypodermic charger plugged into the provided convertor block". Apr 27 23:13:02 so by not putting my n900 in pc suite or something, it charges slower? Apr 27 23:13:18 yes Apr 27 23:13:21 crazy Apr 27 23:13:24 lol Apr 27 23:13:31 i wish i'd known that a long time ago Apr 27 23:13:35 rm_you: the idea is that it's rude to steal power Apr 27 23:13:38 while trying to charge my device and failing :P Apr 27 23:13:41 lol Apr 27 23:14:06 I thought traditionally you got high power as soon as the driver bothered to load. But, then, pc suite is asteaming pile of shit and I haven't even bothered to install it to find out how much it fails. Apr 27 23:14:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus describes this stuff Apr 27 23:14:46 timeless: na, version tag is on every binary, and your dynamic loader is rejecting that (either because it compares it with current kernel or because it has it hardcoded) Apr 27 23:14:48 FauxFaux: pc suite is basically usb-networking Apr 27 23:14:59 javispedro: i can use perl to rewrite each binary Apr 27 23:15:02 that's not a big deal Apr 27 23:15:13 Yet it doesn't work in so many ways. Apr 27 23:15:29 FauxFaux: you don't need to install pc suite to be able to use pc suite mode Apr 27 23:15:38 timeless: grab a elf module; you need to edit contents of a section Apr 27 23:15:39 so you can use pc suite mode and get 500ma Apr 27 23:15:44 *elf parsing perl module Apr 27 23:16:10 Well, I have no idea where I put my usb cable and have wireless next to both of my machines so I don't really care. Apr 27 23:16:40 hi Apr 27 23:16:55 '.note.ABI-tag' will end with three uint32s: 2, 6, 25. you can guess what they're for :) Apr 27 23:20:11 timeless: btw, note that even if you don't select a service in the n900, when plugged in via usb, it will act as a usb mass storage device (with no disks iirc) and grab 500mA. Apr 27 23:20:31 javispedro: depends on the version of the maemo package :) Apr 27 23:20:43 but yeah, some do that :) Apr 27 23:21:05 * javispedro wonders what kind of glorified beagle board you have ;) Apr 27 23:21:40 javispedro: the older system software most definitely didn't do that Apr 27 23:21:53 i don't remember if we changed it in time for 1.0 or if we changed it later Apr 27 23:22:15 ah, I didn't bother to check :P Apr 27 23:22:33 pretty ironic if "charge only" mode would charge more slowly =) Apr 27 23:22:49 it really did originally Apr 27 23:23:16 and unintentional irony is something we're pretty good at Apr 27 23:23:32 * timeless_mbp wonders why nokia is paying for 'nokia comes with music' ads for the finnish tv market Apr 27 23:25:54 timeless lol Apr 27 23:26:32 bjork? Apr 27 23:27:10 oops Apr 27 23:28:25 SpeedEvil: last I checked Bjork was Icelandic not Finnish Apr 27 23:29:06 Hence the oops. Apr 27 23:29:09 Oh! Apr 27 23:29:15 How could I have forgotten Lordi. Apr 27 23:29:36 hehe Apr 27 23:30:17 Oh! Darude++ Apr 27 23:46:45 timeless_mbp, same here Apr 27 23:50:42 Darude is finnish? >_> Apr 27 23:52:21 lol at "Whenever you want information on the 'net, don't ask a question; just post a wrong answer.", how true. Apr 27 23:52:23 So says wikipedia. Apr 27 23:52:28 * javispedro goes troll a bit more on tmo Apr 27 23:52:30 And wikipedia never lies. Apr 27 23:56:13 hello Apr 27 23:58:40 SpeedEvil, only apple says that Apr 27 23:58:53 they quoted a wrong wikipedia statement when they sued Nokia XD Apr 27 23:59:33 :) Apr 28 00:03:27 ShadowJK: the bq27200 - there is no better way of working out the sampling time than trying to watch for changes, and doing the pll thing? Apr 28 00:05:30 SpeedEvil: no Apr 28 00:06:03 anyway you're not really concerned about bq27x00 internal register update interval Apr 28 00:06:34 iirc there are even several different intervals for different data/registers Apr 28 00:06:37 hello svanheulen Apr 28 00:07:39 I'm having problems with wlancond crashing on my n900 almost every other time I open the internet connections. Anyone else have that problem? Apr 28 00:08:07 SpeedEvil: after all there's not really an issue like aliasing between the polling period you read out bq27x00 and the periods the various registers update Apr 28 00:08:13 DocScrutinizer: I'm trying to correlate power usage over the previous interval Apr 28 00:08:38 DocScrutinizer: So the spread of +-2.56 seconds is annoying Apr 28 00:09:05 svanheulen: not seen that Apr 28 00:09:07 hmm, not sure if I get your point. Anyway just do massive obersampling, like once / second Apr 28 00:09:18 over* Apr 28 00:09:32 DocScrutinizer: well - yes - but for the whole powersaving thing. Apr 28 00:09:40 I guess PLL it is Apr 28 00:09:55 nah, readout of bq isn't a heavy task Apr 28 00:10:14 SpeedEvil: I'm not sure pll will pan out Apr 28 00:11:41 DocScrutinizer: it's not heavy - but it is an extra tick Apr 28 00:12:34 i want to shoot the nokia devs >_> Apr 28 00:12:47 <-< please don't Apr 28 00:13:19 that would be unfortunate Apr 28 00:13:23 also, didn't you go to bed lcuk? :P\ Apr 28 00:13:40 SpeedEvil: you'll need to probe at least 2 times shortly before and after an assumed event (let's call it event when bq updates). So you have at least 2 readouts per period, and still occasionally miss. If you do a fixed period sampling with freq(sample) = freq(event) * 2.2 then you also for sure catch each value Apr 28 00:13:47 I was meaning something very minimal. every 10th tick, do an extra sample .5s after your nominal one. If this changes from your nominal sample, that means you're close to teh period Apr 28 00:13:49 bed desk code editor - whats the difference Apr 28 00:13:57 well thats the SECOND sdhc card destroyed by n n900 Apr 28 00:14:16 2 different sdhc cards 2 different n900s.. both cards unuseable now -_- Apr 28 00:14:19 odd Apr 28 00:14:21 svanheulen: no, but wlancond is open, btw. Apr 28 00:14:28 Does anyone know how maemo handles the wear and tear issue of flash drives? I.e. does adding a new url to the browser make the disk die faster? Apr 28 00:14:32 Summel: are you doing anything wired? Apr 28 00:14:38 also i cant delete an pdf file from the memory... i can delete every other file! Apr 28 00:14:40 Summel: wierd Apr 28 00:14:53 SpeedEvil: i wanted to download an ogv video and my freind wanted to make a backup... Apr 28 00:14:56 teilzeitstudent: the wear is essentially unimportant Apr 28 00:15:12 Summel: they won't format on other devices? Apr 28 00:15:28 SpeedEvil: if you're interested in every 10th event only, I don't see the problem if every 30th probe gets you the 11th event instead of the 10th Apr 28 00:15:32 Summel: are these cards purchased through the primary channels, or on ebay? Apr 28 00:15:45 SpeedEvil: we formated his card yesterday... after it didnt work on the n900 anymore and it got REALLY hot oO Apr 28 00:15:53 SpeedEvil: amazon Apr 28 00:15:57 sandisk cards Apr 28 00:16:01 nothing scary :P Apr 28 00:16:07 DocScrutinizer: I mean - you use that every 10th event to lock the PLL - as the frequecy does not vary Apr 28 00:16:08 SpeedEvil: you add a 10% jitter to your data, but so what? Apr 28 00:16:21 aaah Apr 28 00:16:23 and the sdk sucks also :o Apr 28 00:16:28 Summel: amazon themselves - or one of the amazon retailers? Apr 28 00:16:32 how smart Apr 28 00:16:34 amazon themselves Apr 28 00:16:39 i dont like the retailers Apr 28 00:16:48 we already sent the first card back Apr 28 00:16:53 guess i have send mine back also Apr 28 00:17:03 but i dont think its the cards faut Apr 28 00:17:09 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918 Apr 28 00:17:11 because the one in my netbook works fine Apr 28 00:17:13 anyway, the jitter still is the only problem you get when not syncing Apr 28 00:17:18 even while it is under heavier use... Apr 28 00:17:21 summel, are you by chance situated near CERN? Apr 28 00:17:23 there are shit cards out there in the market that are unreliable. Apr 28 00:17:29 lcuk: no :D Apr 28 00:17:35 SpeedEvil, please define "unimportant" :P i dont feel like buying a new device just cuz i used the browser too often, some media player updated its db a lot or w/e Apr 28 00:17:43 SpeedEvil: yes, but i wouldnt say this about sandisk :o Apr 28 00:18:12 summel, "the one in your netbook" Apr 28 00:18:20 teilzeitstudent: The device is designed so that that's not an issue at all. Apr 28 00:18:20 is that the one thats not working on the 900 Apr 28 00:18:40 lcuk: no we ordered 3 cards... 1 for my netbook and 2 for our 2 n900s Apr 28 00:18:44 Summel: the makers of dodgy cards do not print 'crapco' on it. Apr 28 00:18:51 teilzeitstudent, i imagine you could probably make the flash wear out by saving bookmarks Apr 28 00:18:53 the 2 from the n900s stoped working yesterday/now Apr 28 00:18:57 Summel: however - for 2 to die is concerning. Apr 28 00:18:58 but it will either take you a very very long time Apr 28 00:19:08 or you can save links at 0.0000001s or something Apr 28 00:19:12 SpeedEvil: i dont think amazon sells fake sandisk cards :o Apr 28 00:19:26 Summel: probably not. Apr 28 00:19:27 ok summel Apr 28 00:19:46 it could be down to what sort of data you are putting on them and format etc Apr 28 00:19:48 also why cant i compile a qt4 application for my phone? i dont want to use it only in the sdk :( Apr 28 00:19:49 are they still fat Apr 28 00:19:57 *shoots some random developer* Apr 28 00:20:04 * lcuk ducks Apr 28 00:20:06 ~shoot summel Apr 28 00:20:07 * infobot shoots summel in the ear with a cork gun! Apr 28 00:20:14 Summel: nobody has setup a build environment on the phone. Of course you can. Apr 28 00:20:18 lcuk: my freind did a backup (whioch worked fine for me) and i just anted do woanload a video oO Apr 28 00:20:25 SpeedEvil: (2 to die) not really, considering they were from same batch Apr 28 00:20:31 ok i put videos on and off all the time Apr 28 00:20:37 on internal at least Apr 28 00:20:43 DocScrutinizer: yes. I mean - it's concerning if they are legit functioning cards. Apr 28 00:20:49 did you disconnect whilst copying or something? Apr 28 00:20:53 SpeedEvil: but i want to buoild the app in the sdk and use it NOW on my phone and not wait for pr1.2 -_- Apr 28 00:20:57 if it will ever arrive... Apr 28 00:21:02 Summel: oh Apr 28 00:21:10 it will Apr 28 00:21:13 SpeedEvil, care to elaborate on that? i.e. are the writes bufferd in ram for XY mb? how is a crash handled then? or are the writes flushed immediatly? Apr 28 00:21:18 compiling the app itself on the n900 would probably take days :o Apr 28 00:21:32 :) i used to compile everything of mine on the n810 Apr 28 00:21:35 lcuk: no because the qt in the sdk is newer :( Apr 28 00:21:48 SpeedEvil: after bunnie's blog I'm not astonished by anything Apr 28 00:21:48 so i get symbol lookup errors when running the app on the device :( Apr 28 00:21:49 teilzeitstudent: Broadly - ubifs does wear leveling internally - this is the filesystem on / Apr 28 00:21:55 lcuk, the bookmarks are not really my concern.. the media players i use are mostly. if they store their metadata db on disk and rescan everytime i change a file... Apr 28 00:22:17 SpeedEvil, alright I'll take a look at ubifs thanks Apr 28 00:22:33 http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org/msg170028.html Apr 28 00:22:37 teilzeitstudent, if the device could not cope with that sort of activity it would not have been put onto it Apr 28 00:22:37 also is relevant Apr 28 00:22:39 aren't you worrying too hard? Apr 28 00:22:58 we have a 5mpixel camera that writes tonnes, chillax Apr 28 00:23:05 teilzeitstudent: in general - you can write to a particular block on a SD card a few hundred thousand times without issues Apr 28 00:23:27 SpeedEvil: they are vfat formatted because i were told that the n900 only supports vfat on external memory because vfat is "hardcoded" in the mount scripts.... one more reason to shoot the devs :P Apr 28 00:23:30 teilzeitstudent: The wear leveling is over a block of ~1000 'real' blocks on the disk Apr 28 00:23:47 and why cant i delte the one pdf file? Apr 28 00:23:50 Summel: what shows in syslog when you do the cards Apr 28 00:24:01 Summel: what happens when you try as root? Apr 28 00:24:04 summel, permissions? Apr 28 00:24:04 if i tap on "delete" i see every folder/file but not that one pdf oO Apr 28 00:24:12 SpeedEvil: a lot of i/o errors Apr 28 00:24:14 I've never looked at the file manager Apr 28 00:24:15 which pdf is it Apr 28 00:24:40 fsck.vfat it Apr 28 00:24:41 lcuk: so when i save an pdf file i recieved in a mail from the mail applkication i dont have the permission to delete it later? Apr 28 00:24:46 >_> Apr 28 00:24:58 err, the partition Apr 28 00:24:59 summel, i was asking what it was Apr 28 00:25:06 you just told me Apr 28 00:25:44 lcuk: oh and btw there are no permissionson vfat! Apr 28 00:26:05 ;_; Apr 28 00:26:10 summel, this one file is on the memory card you already said is busted? Apr 28 00:26:15 i thought it was on internal memory? Apr 28 00:26:19 summel: when fs corrupted, it's remount ro Apr 28 00:26:25 lcuk: i tried to delete it before that Apr 28 00:26:35 it never shows up on the delte window Apr 28 00:26:42 i can open it and read and stuff :/ Apr 28 00:26:43 so the filesystem got corrupted Apr 28 00:26:45 lcuk, well... that is asuming that thecorporation behind the device is not only after my money and I have been burned before :< Apr 28 00:26:47 Summel: dumping the contents of /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc1/mmc1:0001 Apr 28 00:27:15 Summel: all the files - and posting them on a 'corrupt cards' thread on tmo may be of slight use Apr 28 00:27:25 teilzeitstudent, of course Apr 28 00:27:35 im sure the topic has been gone over many times on talk.maemo.org Apr 28 00:27:45 what's in dmesg? Apr 28 00:27:48 Summel: these are the card ID info Apr 28 00:27:52 and there are some better quoted figures if you dont want to take our word for it Apr 28 00:28:41 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918 Apr 28 00:28:49 Summel - see that - with the above ids Apr 28 00:28:52 :-P Apr 28 00:28:57 i could delete BOTH files from the shell btw Apr 28 00:29:00 as user Apr 28 00:29:01 not root Apr 28 00:29:03 !!!! Apr 28 00:29:11 huh?? Apr 28 00:29:13 and now everything works again Apr 28 00:29:15 :) Apr 28 00:29:21 wtf? Apr 28 00:29:27 * summel pulls out his gun again >_> Apr 28 00:29:44 you're saying root failed on deleting them? Apr 28 00:29:55 when i deleted the part of the video from the filemanager it always reaeared when restarting the filemanager Apr 28 00:29:58 no Apr 28 00:30:01 the filemanager Apr 28 00:30:08 the part of the video Apr 28 00:30:12 didnt show the pdf in the delte window Apr 28 00:30:30 and when i deleted the part of the video that got downloaded it reappeared Apr 28 00:30:38 but i still want to download the video :o Apr 28 00:30:48 also the adblock+ plugin does not work -_- Apr 28 00:31:12 if i follow the instructions for opening the window where i can select the subscriptions i always get a file not found -_- Apr 28 00:31:35 lcuk, no offence intended, but if I took every word spoken on irc as a fact... xD im just curious about the kernel/userland tools used. i touched that topic briefly when building a gentoo-on-usb-drive thingy, but what I found still left a lot of unneeded writes to disk with every-day activity Apr 28 00:32:13 teilzeitstudent, none taken, you asked for some advice we offered and even gave you a pointer to where you can find more info Apr 28 00:33:07 ive been hammering my system recently almost as much a beating as my 810 got Apr 28 00:33:12 and its coped admirably Apr 28 00:33:58 teilzeitstudent: uSD cards have been put to a fulltime-stresstest by c't (german mag) - they couldn't provoke any block burnouts in months(!!) of hammering the devices under test Apr 28 00:34:34 and that's been years ago Apr 28 00:34:44 cards probably goit better since Apr 28 00:35:02 I saw some tests also on the olpc mailing list Apr 28 00:35:24 nite -_- Apr 28 00:37:43 DocScrutinizer, got a link or... "heft nummer"? :p Apr 28 00:38:01 sorry, not off top of my head Apr 28 00:38:21 has to be some 2..4years ago Apr 28 00:38:23 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/NAND_Testing#SD_Cards aha! Apr 28 00:38:25 See that Apr 28 00:38:27 twouters: Apr 28 00:38:30 teilzeitstudent: Apr 28 00:39:12 maybe even longer Apr 28 00:45:57 teilzeitstudent: http://www.heise.de/kiosk/archiv/ct/2006/18/168_kiosk maybe this one. See "Flash-Haltbarkeit" tag Apr 28 00:48:25 or this http://www.heise.de/kiosk/archiv/ct/2006/23/142_kiosk Apr 28 00:49:43 Are there any extremely kind people here that could build the rtl8187 kernel module for os2007he for me? I've been trying to do it myself for a Very long time now. Apr 28 00:51:02 dockane, sec... I'll check it Apr 28 00:52:05 http://www.heise.de/ct/suche/?q=Flash-Haltbarkeit&search_submit=Suchen&rm=search&channel=ct Apr 28 00:52:41 hello all Apr 28 00:52:49 that should suffice to kickstart your investigations ;-) Apr 28 00:54:25 though, seeing that the partition used by the /home directory is ext3.. says "data=writeback", but still does journaling Apr 28 00:56:39 data=writeback doesn't disable journaling for metadata Apr 28 00:56:42 hmm, probably time to get some sd card to put the swap onto.. and the home dir with all those configuration files. and often chaninging playlists. Apr 28 00:57:19 the home dir is on the 32 emmc, with hardware wear leveling. Apr 28 00:57:22 good morning Apr 28 00:57:29 *32 GiB. Apr 28 00:58:04 javispedro, the MyDocs stuff is not my concern.. i have control over what is written there. the problem is /home/user with all those config files, databases etc. Apr 28 00:58:26 I didn't say anything about MyDocs. Apr 28 00:58:37 the home dir is on a 2 GiB partition on the 32 GiB eMMC. Apr 28 00:58:40 yea Apr 28 00:58:58 wear leveling is performed over the entire 32 GiB. Apr 28 01:00:04 exactly Apr 28 01:00:07 yea.. but assuming ubifs knows what it is doing, i can disregard the root, put the /home/ on some sd card, write the hell out of it and then just change the sd card every know and then Apr 28 01:00:30 and use the device for a couple of years Apr 28 01:00:31 * DocScrutinizer sighs Apr 28 01:01:12 just count how many times a 100 KiB file would need to be written to fill a 32 GiB 1000 times at least. Apr 28 01:02:02 javispedro: it's not quite that simple - the wear leveling is not across the whole device typoically Apr 28 01:02:09 flash ist heutzutage 'unkaputtbar' Apr 28 01:02:11 the bash history is stored between reboots -> eveytime i use the shell some file is written there. same for the browser. the media player stores its database somewhere. i do add/remove media files a lot. it all adds up. Apr 28 01:02:25 so what? Apr 28 01:02:26 (though it's not a concern) Apr 28 01:02:37 teilzeitstudent: It adds up to an _INSIGNIFICANT_ degree Apr 28 01:03:05 teilzeitstudent: normal filesystem operations, are not a real concern in terms of longevity Apr 28 01:03:21 probably need a real to even hold the ratio Apr 28 01:04:29 hi all... anyone can helpme with scratchbox2 pls? Apr 28 01:04:46 SpeedEvil, I had an mp3 player with an actual hard drive. I changed playlists, mp3s almost every day and it lastet for years. I had some flash player and after a year the disk was unusable. Apr 28 01:05:14 SpeedEvil, the internal, non-removable one~ Apr 28 01:06:06 too bad, maybe it had no wear leveling, or wrote back the position in your current song 10 times a second, or was simply a lemon Apr 28 01:06:26 teilzeitstudent: One device does not statistics make. Apr 28 01:06:36 It was a SonyEriccson... so probably all of the above :p Apr 28 01:06:52 I haven't seen anyone saying they they've had errors on teh internal MMC Apr 28 01:07:30 I have, but it was too early for the cause to be wearing Apr 28 01:07:35 *wear. Apr 28 01:07:48 teilzeitstudent: please, this has been debated ad nauseum all over the internets. Common sense is, flash will live longer than you do, most probably. There's no usage pattern where you need to be concerned about wear Apr 28 01:08:05 teilzeitstudent, If you're really worried about this, why not try to configure your device so that most of the writes occur on the removable microSD - in the unlikely event it wears out, you can cheaply replace it? Apr 28 01:08:06 there's no _interactive_ usage pattern Apr 28 01:08:20 ;P Apr 28 01:08:48 yesyes Apr 28 01:09:16 though even server SSDs have a 5 year warranty today Apr 28 01:09:38 and that's surely non-interactive use Apr 28 01:10:05 and surely hardware designed for server use. Apr 28 01:10:08 but afaiu they will have much longer lifespans than cheap emmcs Apr 28 01:10:09 I suspect /syus/class/ubi/ will tell you about the failed blocks of the internal onenand Apr 28 01:10:36 teilzeitstudent: nope, the flash chips are the very same, as are the wear leveling algos mostly Apr 28 01:11:47 who cares about oneNAND. It's been pointed at several times $home is on eMMC Apr 28 01:12:00 ues Apr 28 01:12:08 onenand you get hard numbers Apr 28 01:12:15 as to failed blocks Apr 28 01:12:19 mmc hides Apr 28 01:12:23 yes Apr 28 01:12:37 ntil capacity goes down Apr 28 01:12:52 capacity can't go down in a mmc Apr 28 01:13:00 as it emulates a block device Apr 28 01:13:04 ohj Apr 28 01:13:24 err? Apr 28 01:14:45 don't you think it will eventually start to report bad blocks, when it runs out of spare? Apr 28 01:15:09 or simply report lower usable capacity? Apr 28 01:15:33 I doubt it would report lower usable capacity, it would break havoc at filesystem Apr 28 01:15:34 k, depends on controller Apr 28 01:15:46 and probably cause much more damage than a single bad block Apr 28 01:16:02 It can't report lower capacity without breaking the block device model Apr 28 01:16:40 anyway - /sys/class/ubi/ubi0/bad_peb_count - says how many bad blocks your onenand has. Apr 28 01:16:42 hmm, time for a nap. Can't follow anymore Apr 28 01:16:42 I have one Apr 28 01:16:45 night Apr 28 01:17:08 hah! I have zero. Apr 28 01:17:16 :) Apr 28 01:17:24 a few are normal even off fab Apr 28 01:17:38 yeah Apr 28 01:17:41 that's why NAND is a PITA Apr 28 01:18:15 hmm. Apr 28 01:18:27 * SpeedEvil contemplates pita, and goes to look up recipies. Apr 28 01:18:36 Also nota that noone suggests putting a swap partition on a flash disk :p Apr 28 01:18:39 note Apr 28 01:18:42 note** Apr 28 01:19:10 swap partition! with swappiness set to an unreasonably high value! Apr 28 01:19:37 and yet someone though it was OK. Apr 28 01:19:57 so, stop worrying, unless your plan is to put gazillions of gigabytes through it. Apr 28 01:20:13 Or having 5 browser windows open, all with javascript running, the media player, a console and, for the fun of it, some random sudoku app Apr 28 01:20:48 the overclocked CPU will break before the internal flash does :P Apr 28 01:21:05 DocScrutinizer: stop me if I'm wrong Apr 28 01:21:20 javispedro, probably :P Apr 28 01:21:38 DocScrutinizer: headphone splitter, if you use twice the same headphone, so 2x the same impedance in parallel, so impedance cut in 2, so current required doubled, right? Apr 28 01:21:46 Someone who - if they got it wrong - would cost nokia several million dollars. Apr 28 01:21:55 This has been carefully researched. Apr 28 01:21:55 * crashanddie 's electronics are so rusty it's shameful Apr 28 01:22:11 crashanddie: exactly! Apr 28 01:22:24 right Apr 28 01:22:39 SpeedEvil, or they though they would make more money by selling crappy devices than settling outside of court. Apr 28 01:22:47 +t Apr 28 01:23:02 warranty returns cost lost of money Apr 28 01:23:12 ++ Apr 28 01:23:27 lots, even Apr 28 01:23:57 A returned device to swap the mainboard is _well_ into negative profit. Apr 28 01:24:11 crashanddie: though e.g on N900 you got an internal impedance of iirc 32Ohm, so the current will rise a bit from the amp, but same time voltage and thus current thru each of the headphones goes down Apr 28 01:24:21 Before even getting to the consequent damage to reputation, and the likelyhood of the person buying again Apr 28 01:24:47 DocScrutinizer: so battery impact is minimal, you just get lower volume Apr 28 01:24:53 yes Apr 28 01:25:02 Which keeps factory at higher "percentage of output vs. standing costs", which looks good in the budget review which keeps investors happy which keeps interest rates low which keeps everything nice. Apr 28 01:25:50 Not to mention the "a well, somethings wrong with that gadget but the ads for the new version look nice". Which keeps Apple profitable :p Apr 28 01:28:06 * DocScrutinizer thinks, teilzeitstudent is all OC-fools' antimater Apr 28 01:29:08 nokia has ads? Apr 28 01:29:12 hope he's solid enough to anihilate all of them - though I doubt as those are legion Apr 28 01:29:19 asuming that "antimater" is the opposite to "animator" (e.g. those guys in a bear suite telling you to buy stuff), i still have no idea what "OC-fools" means Apr 28 01:29:57 DocScrutinizer: no way. Though I hope that if a sizable group of them annihilate the resulting explosion wreaks havoc in TMO. Apr 28 01:30:13 hehehehe Apr 28 01:33:52 "I installed 2GHz-kernel and eMMC-saver-tweak. It blasted away my home" X-P Apr 28 01:34:24 I have that eMMC saver tweak. its called swap over network block device =) Apr 28 01:34:38 NFS Apr 28 01:34:41 lol Apr 28 01:36:22 nbd :) Apr 28 01:37:01 yep Apr 28 01:37:19 and it's awfully slow (no wonder, maybe reducing swappiness...) Apr 28 01:37:45 NFS? Who needs NFS, real-time rsync Apr 28 01:37:52 Now there's some swap! Apr 28 01:38:02 hmm you need to buffer it in RAM, or if that is used, then in swap :-P Apr 28 01:38:49 import pexpect; swap = pexpect.spawn('rsync'); swap.write(data) Apr 28 01:38:51 swap out the swap buffers Apr 28 01:39:05 real-time rsync over ssh to a machine with home mounted via webdav/fuse on AU ! Apr 28 01:39:48 * javispedro wonders how long until someone says "swap over tcp/ip over carrier pigeons" Apr 28 01:39:49 but only with 3GHz OC Apr 28 01:40:01 http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/mfd/2/03_jfjez.png Apr 28 01:40:03 otherwise gets unbearably slow Apr 28 01:40:39 javispedro: got the RFC? Apr 28 01:40:59 it's a google search away I hope. Apr 28 01:41:08 :-) Apr 28 01:41:15 http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html Apr 28 01:41:19 it was :) Apr 28 01:41:21 ~rfc tcp pigeon Apr 28 01:41:33 infobot also uses carrier pigeons Apr 28 01:41:33 ~useless Apr 28 01:41:36 * infobot starts crying and hides from crashanddie in the darkest corner of the room. :( Apr 28 01:41:40 apparently Apr 28 01:41:48 ~google infobot Apr 28 01:42:08 is infobot particularly slow today? Apr 28 01:42:34 I don't know why, but the idea of a ip over carrier pigeons Denial of Service attack just crossed my mind Apr 28 01:42:50 lmao Apr 28 01:42:52 *cue scene from The Birds* Apr 28 01:43:00 ~ping Apr 28 01:43:01 ~pong Apr 28 01:43:15 ~google doesn't work Apr 28 01:43:38 ~slashdot apple Apr 28 01:43:42 Slashdot Headlines (7 of 15): Apple Just Says Yes To iPhone Smoking Game ;; The 4G iPhone's Finder Reportedly Located ;; Terry Childs Found Guilty ;; Rocket Racing League Showcases New X-Racers ;; Ogg Format Accusations Refuted ;; Supreme Court To Consider First Sale of Imports ;; Senators Tell Facebook To Quit Sharing Users' Info. Apr 28 01:44:09 there. Apr 28 01:44:11 ~prostitutes san francisco Apr 28 01:44:22 ~sudo rm -rf / Apr 28 01:45:03 ~ubuntu acidjazz Apr 28 01:45:04 * infobot lovingly explains to acidjazz in a way that causes acidjazz to weep with gratitude that acidjazz must read the fine, friendly manual Apr 28 01:45:26 ~perv DocScrutinizer Apr 28 01:45:56 ~redhat crashanddie Apr 28 01:46:08 ooops Apr 28 01:46:16 ~windows DocScrutinizer Apr 28 01:46:18 * infobot installs Windows ME on DocScrutinizer's PC. Apr 28 01:46:32 ~osx DocScrutinizer Apr 28 01:46:42 ~gentoo crashanddie Apr 28 01:46:43 * infobot recompiles crashanddie again Apr 28 01:46:47 NOOOO Apr 28 01:47:18 [11:46] *infobot* help mac [11:46] no help on mac. Apr 28 01:47:27 * javispedro plans to buy a gazillion core workstation just to be able to use gentoo Apr 28 01:47:57 Gentoo doesn't need a lot of computing power Apr 28 01:48:01 it just requires a lot of patience Apr 28 01:48:32 you CAN'T have enough patience Apr 28 01:48:45 of course you can Apr 28 01:48:46 you're a man Apr 28 01:48:48 specially by the third time the OOo build fails for some reason, like ENOSPC Apr 28 01:49:01 dude, you just take the binaries for ooo Apr 28 01:49:06 ENOSENSE Apr 28 01:49:17 baaah, where's the leetness on that. Apr 28 01:49:32 and no, having -O6 doesn't make sense Apr 28 01:49:58 of course, because -O5 is better on ARMEL Apr 28 01:50:10 javispedro: Gentoo isn't about leetness, and if you think using a computer in any kind of way, form or fashion makes you leet, you need to go back to the hackademy Apr 28 01:50:26 * javispedro is not talking seriously :) Apr 28 01:50:38 neither am i :0 Apr 28 01:50:55 btw, everytime i type :0, actually i mean :) Apr 28 01:51:01 it's just that my shift key fails Apr 28 01:53:48 :(===D) Apr 28 01:53:52 ^- penis in mouth Apr 28 01:54:37 :(==)=8 Apr 28 01:55:03 8===(D~): Apr 28 01:55:05 lol Apr 28 01:55:33 hehe Apr 28 01:55:37 acidjazz: there, did your mother never tell you not to talk with your mouth full? Apr 28 01:55:42 was waiting how long it takes Apr 28 01:55:47 :D Apr 28 01:55:51 oh come on, that one was easy :D Apr 28 01:56:12 loll Apr 28 01:56:24 how did you guys do that? Apr 28 01:56:37 PM chanserv? Apr 28 01:56:47 like so Apr 28 01:56:55 how are you sending the command Apr 28 01:57:02 does it hide that you sent it? Apr 28 01:57:12 I send it directly to the server Apr 28 01:57:15 someday, when doing that, the opped person will decide to use the kickall command -- fun ensues. Apr 28 01:57:26 /cs command #channel args Apr 28 01:57:29 hilarity, that too. Apr 28 01:57:33 ah i see Apr 28 01:57:36 alot diff than normal irc Apr 28 01:57:48 actually javispedro a mass deop is wiser Apr 28 01:57:53 you can only kick one person at a time Apr 28 01:57:58 you can deop 4 at a time Apr 28 01:58:03 na, there's a kickall service around Apr 28 01:58:03 -oooo Apr 28 01:58:06 acidjazz: you can't deop ChanServ Apr 28 01:58:17 and deopping will do nothing since they will get back op via CS. Apr 28 01:58:18 ah Apr 28 01:58:26 but kicking 506 mortals -- fun. Apr 28 01:58:27 acidjazz: and even without being in the channel or without having @, we can still issue commands Apr 28 01:58:51 we can even have ChanServ leave the channel, and still be able to quiet people through chanserv Apr 28 01:59:00 or op/kick, whatever Apr 28 01:59:11 chanserv doesn't need to be in the channel to act Apr 28 01:59:12 lil more power than an eggdrop Apr 28 01:59:21 yeah, quite Apr 28 01:59:23 yea like ppl w/ O:linse Apr 28 01:59:45 ircd se7en is pretty nice tbh Apr 28 02:00:02 we've come a long way since the time of undernet and X Apr 28 02:00:03 this is charybdis? Apr 28 02:00:38 acidjazz: no, that's a myth :P Apr 28 02:00:41 greek myth, even :D Apr 28 02:01:44 oh, indeed, se7en is a fork of charybdis Apr 28 02:01:46 or branch Apr 28 02:01:54 ircd-seven-1.0.1(20100130-d3139a423e1f, Charybdis 3.2-dev) Apr 28 02:02:04 ive only messed w/ hybrid Apr 28 02:02:06 and this is like 10 years ago Apr 28 02:02:14 i wrote an irc client back in the day Apr 28 02:02:32 "freenode's next generation ircd project, ircd-seven, is a branch of the charybdis ircd, with changes specific to freenode's needs. It has been designed to replace the legacy hyperion. The network was migrated to ircd-seven at the end of January, 2010." Apr 28 02:03:03 and that migration was seriously powerful, too :P Apr 28 02:03:13 s/powerful/painful/ Apr 28 02:03:15 crashanddie meant: and that migration was seriously painful, too :P Apr 28 02:04:29 haha that is pretty cool Apr 28 02:04:32 it does the regex Apr 28 02:04:39 s/regex/valley of boners/ Apr 28 02:04:39 acidjazz meant: it does the valley of boners Apr 28 02:04:45 that i do like Apr 28 02:05:06 my irc client had some fun stuff it did back in the day Apr 28 02:05:11 like ppls clients would auto unban Apr 28 02:05:17 if their 'friend' was banned Apr 28 02:05:19 or bots would Apr 28 02:05:25 but there were tricks to breaking the ban match Apr 28 02:05:53 like +b *!*@cr?s?a?d?i?.com Apr 28 02:06:01 screwban if i recall correctly Apr 28 02:07:09 acidjazz: /msg cs help recover Apr 28 02:07:13 err Apr 28 02:07:24 /msg chanserv help recover Apr 28 02:07:31 lol Apr 28 02:07:48 yea im sure its alot more secure tehse days Apr 28 02:08:02 the major way that wasnt fixed for years woudl be a server collision takeover Apr 28 02:08:16 you ping flood an irc server on teh network until it jupes from teh network Apr 28 02:08:24 then get on it w/ bots w/ the exact same names as all the ops Apr 28 02:08:29 + a couple more to take it over Apr 28 02:08:41 we got registered channels nowadays. You can't takeover them Apr 28 02:08:43 then when they combine any duplicate names are kicked from teh server Apr 28 02:08:54 both are disconnected Apr 28 02:08:59 the channels left w/ the other two Apr 28 02:09:12 yea im talkign uhh 14 years ago i think Apr 28 02:09:19 acidjazz: nickname are protected, one account can have multiple nicknames, etc Apr 28 02:09:19 also, wouldn't nickserv prevent that? Apr 28 02:09:23 yeah Apr 28 02:09:28 I see. Apr 28 02:09:30 there was no nickserv Apr 28 02:09:32 no chanserv Apr 28 02:09:34 no serv of anything Apr 28 02:09:39 no registrations Apr 28 02:09:41 yeah, just raw text Apr 28 02:09:43 thats all new fancy stuff Apr 28 02:09:52 multiplayer notepad Apr 28 02:10:11 ah, Sts failed the test! Apr 28 02:10:17 1.8 out of 5 points Apr 28 02:10:18 there was a bug where you could send server commands via putting special chars in a channel key Apr 28 02:10:18 ah? Apr 28 02:10:33 acidjazz: there's one hack that still works Apr 28 02:10:33 crashanddie: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=630760 Apr 28 02:10:36 acidjazz: the router reboot Apr 28 02:10:41 so you could /join #randomk, sent #random +k KEY_CHAR_/mode +o bob #channeltohack Apr 28 02:10:58 then bob woudl get +o'ed in the channel by the irc server Apr 28 02:11:01 irc.he.net sets mode +o bob Apr 28 02:11:04 that was _hilariosu_ Apr 28 02:11:11 chaos ensued before that was fixedf Apr 28 02:11:12 actually http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=630682 Apr 28 02:13:09 yet another us vs them war waiting to happen... Apr 28 02:17:58 ok, out for lunch Apr 28 02:17:58 company is paying for a $100 steak Apr 28 02:17:59 'later Apr 28 02:18:16 cya Apr 28 02:24:56 hmm, let's see if maybe xchat behaves with a different wlan-energy setting Apr 28 02:25:41 seems not Apr 28 02:30:09 sillty question, but anyone have a .deb with the fix for bug 6009 applied ? Apr 28 02:30:11 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009 "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications Apr 28 02:32:33 opinions on $45 up-front + $30/mo after that for unlimited talk (only)? Apr 28 02:32:39 can I get any better in the US? Apr 28 02:33:28 aah, and I thought you're selling .deb fixed keymap files for 45 bucks ;-P Apr 28 02:35:08 lol Apr 28 02:35:54 ... Apr 28 02:36:08 appaerently libvte itself needs patching though Apr 28 02:36:34 which is a little hard without the sdk handy Apr 28 02:43:25 * DocScrutinizer kills a moth **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 28 02:59:56 2010