**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 28 02:59:56 2010 Apr 28 03:43:53 Guest2729: nice nick, termana Apr 28 03:48:28 ahh shit Apr 28 03:49:31 autoreconnect and then nickserv renames me after 20 seconds :P Apr 28 04:19:40 OMFG Apr 28 04:19:48 There's no fireworks in Australia !!!!!!!!!!! Apr 28 04:20:46 ... Apr 28 04:26:27 Man, silvermountain should serious just fsck off Apr 28 04:26:57 Reality fails to affect his sense of how things are. Apr 28 04:30:05 People are entitled to their own opinions, and people are even entitled to their opinion about specific facts. Apr 28 04:30:17 What you're not entitled to is your own facts. Apr 28 04:33:40 He continually paints a picture of the extremity of his ignorance. Apr 28 04:40:15 GAN900: You talking about Stskeep's thread? :P Apr 28 04:51:47 * RST38h moos at the new day Apr 28 04:52:09 Hello, General, crash, other life forms Apr 28 04:52:52 Termana, yeah. Apr 28 04:52:57 Hey, RST38h. Apr 28 04:53:30 Just posted my own opinion in the thread Apr 28 04:53:33 hello RST38h Apr 28 04:53:41 hello Termana Apr 28 04:54:29 what thread? should I haunt it? Apr 28 04:57:47 RST38h: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=630935 Apr 28 04:59:19 I can just see the flame war about to unfold Apr 28 05:03:11 Well, for once, the silver* guy is making *some* sense Apr 28 05:03:32 He obviously expects too much from Sts though Apr 28 05:03:59 yo RST38h Apr 28 05:05:30 If I remember correctly, the original plan was for Sts to somehow organize a mechanism for backporting some of the Maemo5 fixes back into Diablo and releasing those updates semi-officially Apr 28 05:05:42 This has never materialized, at least not from Nokia. Apr 28 05:05:59 eh, no :P Apr 28 05:06:01 And is seemingly to big of a task to be handled singlehandedly Apr 28 05:06:20 Stskeeps: good morning Apr 28 05:06:33 Well, *whaetever* Nokia-cooperation task you take, it cannot be handled without Nokia's involvement Apr 28 05:06:33 Termana: where are you located mate? Apr 28 05:06:40 distmaster or no distmaster Apr 28 05:06:43 EHLO Sts Apr 28 05:09:21 RST38h, smells like revisionism. :P Apr 28 05:09:37 Stskeeps, ok, my rambling non-flame input is up. Apr 28 05:09:57 crashanddie: South Australia Apr 28 05:10:05 i'll read the thread through when i've had coffee :P Apr 28 05:11:29 GAN: Well, I may be in error. Anyways, I guess Sts should have provided some list of his duties, to prevent people from making stuff up Apr 28 05:11:52 Why? Apr 28 05:12:04 He owes nothing to the mortals of the community Apr 28 05:12:09 Should he tweet when he goes on a cigarette or poop break too? Apr 28 05:12:42 The list of his duties is included in the job description that he agreed to when signing up for the job Apr 28 05:12:47 crashanddie, clearly. Apr 28 05:13:08 Then he should not have started the thread :) Apr 28 05:13:17 And that list doesn't include "Will report and reveal all his actions on a daily basis for the scrutiny of the community" Apr 28 05:13:31 He tries to be open, tries to be honest with the community, and what does he get for it? Shit in the face, as usual Apr 28 05:13:43 Well, we all get shit in the face Apr 28 05:13:50 That's how Talk works. Apr 28 05:13:51 crash: Happens all the time, especially lately Apr 28 05:13:58 Or what rock have you been under. :P Apr 28 05:14:22 How the fuck does anyone dare post a post saying his "grade" is 1.8 out of 5 Apr 28 05:14:40 crash: But as long as he has started that thread, starting it with that list is a good way to avoid shit being thrown from random unexpected directions Apr 28 05:14:56 crashanddie: i don't mind, at least it gives me something to argue with Apr 28 05:15:10 * Stskeeps is not brought down by the thread and sees it as an opportunity to do a better job. Apr 28 05:15:11 Performance reviews are highly confidential, only done by the immediate boss, and the results only disclosed very narrowly. Not something to be done in public. wankermountain is way out of line Apr 28 05:15:29 crash: that's FORMAL perf reviews Apr 28 05:15:44 * GeneralAntilles thinks the shit in the face is probably good for character growth. :P Apr 28 05:15:45 crashanddie, his name is silvermountain. Apr 28 05:15:45 crashanddie, are you not familiar with his posting history? Apr 28 05:15:45 and what do you think 99% of readers will take away from it? Apr 28 05:16:06 They will read "Stskeeps doesn't do his job" and leave the thread Apr 28 05:16:08 * RST38h goes to check silver*'s posting history, out of morbid curiosity Apr 28 05:16:08 GeneralAntilles: I very much am Apr 28 05:17:43 GeneralAntilles: I'm writing a conversation search tool Apr 28 05:18:10 "Lol, thanks. I am now also 'The Shitt King' :)" - that is his first post found by the tmo =) Apr 28 05:19:24 #agreed silvermountain is The Shitt King Apr 28 05:19:31 oh, no meeting bot? :P Apr 28 05:39:19 Stskeeps: nice work Apr 28 05:39:49 mm, thanks Apr 28 05:44:29 omfg Apr 28 05:44:52 Outlook search algorithm for encrypted mailboxes: "Decrypt email, search, encrypt, rinse and repeat" Apr 28 05:45:09 I'm looking for a 4 letter word in a 2gig mailbox :p Apr 28 05:45:32 (outlook web access, that is) Apr 28 05:46:13 leave Apr 28 05:46:21 abe3k: fail Apr 28 05:46:58 cig in the face - morning Apr 28 05:47:23 morning DocScrutinizer Apr 28 05:49:50 hi Apr 28 05:50:06 m2cm2c: changed nicknames and joined again? Apr 28 05:50:25 crashanddie, yeah I was logged with my ubuntu account :D Apr 28 05:51:36 * DocScrutinizer considers a irc client with a small top window holding the last join/quit msgs Apr 28 05:52:01 guys, I was wondering if there is any way of making python open up a dialog without it blurring out whats behind that dialog Apr 28 05:52:54 under maemo Apr 28 05:52:55 5 Apr 28 05:53:16 GTK? Apr 28 05:53:27 hilldon desktop and gtk yes Apr 28 05:53:34 Afraid not, it's how the window manager handles things IIRC Apr 28 05:54:03 crashanddie, is there any way of overriding the window manager through a config file or something ? Apr 28 05:54:15 not that I'm aware of Apr 28 05:54:26 full size window with partial alpha? Apr 28 05:54:38 DocScrutinizer, you can say so, yes Apr 28 05:55:04 DocScrutinizer, but not alpha , only a small window taking part of the view Apr 28 05:55:35 crashanddie, I've found a config file to mess with the transition effects, but I didn't find one for window effects, but I think there should be one Apr 28 05:55:47 was more like a suggestion how to ship oround the winmngr Apr 28 05:56:47 DocScrutinizer, I made a widget that pops up a dialog box in the camera app, but when the dialog is open it blurrs out the camera picture Apr 28 05:57:11 not blur, but puts a texture of slanted lines on it Apr 28 05:57:13 m2cm2c: I think that's the expected behaviour Apr 28 05:57:26 m2cm2c: screenshot? Apr 28 05:57:41 m2cm2c: shift + control + p Apr 28 05:57:51 crashanddie, a screenshot of my doalog ? Apr 28 05:57:59 will put the image in Images\Screenshots Apr 28 05:58:05 yeah, I don't understand the slanted lines Apr 28 05:58:30 crashanddie, I think the window manager uses slanted lines instead of blurr when there is a video feed in the background Apr 28 05:59:02 crashanddie, / / / / something like this :) Apr 28 05:59:17 how hard is it to take a screenshot? Apr 28 05:59:41 hehe, yes. as it has to superimpose it into the the video framebuffer Apr 28 05:59:54 DocScrutinizer,exactly Apr 28 05:59:56 can't blurr videoFB Apr 28 06:00:15 DocScrutinizer, yep Apr 28 06:00:55 if you use a fullscreen window, then no /// Apr 28 06:01:08 then make that window transparent Apr 28 06:01:27 then place a widget inside to hold your text on a solid bg Apr 28 06:01:32 DocScrutinizer, with gtk or cairo ? Apr 28 06:01:44 no idea - no coder here ;-P Apr 28 06:01:50 just an idea Apr 28 06:02:04 DocScrutinizer, I'm not sure how to make a transparent window in gtk tbh Apr 28 06:02:24 i'm not sure if it's possible Apr 28 06:02:52 DocScrutinizer, yeah, only solution is to change the background with a ticker to show whats behind the window Apr 28 06:03:18 which isn't exactly what you want Apr 28 06:03:46 freggin xchat Apr 28 06:04:18 the only way I figured out to override the blur was a patched hildon Apr 28 06:04:34 which is pretty complicated for a simple dialog Apr 28 06:04:51 why do you want to? Apr 28 06:05:02 the platform obviously wants the blur Apr 28 06:05:06 hm Apr 28 06:05:18 is gftp in some other repo? Apr 28 06:05:27 well the cam-app itself knows how to superimpose buttons, as does mediaplayer Apr 28 06:05:35 I've made a widget to set the camera focus manually and it uses dialogs for input, when the dialogs appear they blurr out the camera app :) Apr 28 06:06:07 which makes it pretty hard to see if the focus is correct or not Apr 28 06:06:39 perhaps a dialog isn't the right metaphor on this paltform? Apr 28 06:07:24 ^^^^! Apr 28 06:07:24 timeless_mbp, I think for this app it is not, true Apr 28 06:07:34 cma itself does it Apr 28 06:07:41 cam Apr 28 06:07:47 DocScrutinizer, cam app doesn't have plugin capability Apr 28 06:07:55 yeah Apr 28 06:08:36 m2cm2c: the window manager allows compositing flying widgets w/o blurring Apr 28 06:08:44 watch an sms notification while the camera is active Apr 28 06:08:46 you'd somehow need to at least steal the window handle Apr 28 06:09:20 timeless_mbp, sms doesn't blurr out the camera app ? Apr 28 06:09:47 m2cm2c: inbound sms or inbound call notifications? it shouldn't Apr 28 06:10:03 try them Apr 28 06:10:09 note: this is the notification, not the app Apr 28 06:10:40 timeless_mbp, hmmm, I'll look into that, but still that info message shows up on top of the application and covers the view Apr 28 06:11:24 Stskeeps: your diplomacy is an inspiration to us all Apr 28 06:11:31 it flies across and can respond to clicks Apr 28 06:11:45 crashanddie: it's just the coffee Apr 28 06:11:56 timeless_mbp, let me see if I can stick a button into a notification area :P Apr 28 06:12:52 gdigicam FOSS, cameraui closed blob :-( Apr 28 06:13:26 Stskeeps: thanks for the reference, mad useful Apr 28 06:13:34 which one of them? Apr 28 06:13:49 http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo.org/openness/pr1.1/ Apr 28 06:13:53 ah, yes Apr 28 06:27:50 I don't understand why downloading over 3G is so much more energy consuming, or rathe, why *receiving* data through an antenna uses any significant amount of power at all. sending I can understand clearly, but for something like a radio stream, where upload is almost nil? Apr 28 06:28:12 timeless_mbp, notification blurrs out the background too -.- Apr 28 06:28:20 btw this is a technical question, not a complaint ;) Apr 28 06:28:52 Shapeshifter: AFAIK because you need to send acknowledgements continuously for each packet? Apr 28 06:29:08 well, maybe not for each packet Apr 28 06:29:23 ah yes, didnt think of that Apr 28 06:29:55 Shapeshifter, it is all about processor power consumption, faster data means faster processing and more errors, which will lead to uploading also :) Apr 28 06:29:59 who is the planet Maemo guy ? Niels ? Apr 28 06:30:06 Shapeshifter: also because it is effectively the same as having a phone conversation going on (well, roughly, I'd think), a lot of decoding and such going on Apr 28 06:30:21 achipa_nettop: "planet maemo guy"? Apr 28 06:30:47 crashanddie: as in ’who do I poke if planet Maemo censors my blog posts’ :D Apr 28 06:32:09 achipa_nettop: ah, yes, Niels, or mr X-Fade as we like to call him here Apr 28 06:32:24 we also like to like to highlight X-Fade for no particular reason Apr 28 06:33:15 m2cm2c: wrong notification Apr 28 06:33:18 who is this X-Fade you keep talking about ? Apr 28 06:33:19 i don't mean info banners Apr 28 06:33:24 i mean flying windows Apr 28 06:33:59 timeless_mbp, hmmm I though you meant "hildon.hildon_note_new_information" , what are you talking about then ? :) Apr 28 06:34:05 though a banner might work as well? Apr 28 06:34:11 no no no :) Apr 28 06:34:22 m2cm2c: go use the device for a bit Apr 28 06:34:26 get someone to call you Apr 28 06:34:30 don't answer the call Apr 28 06:34:34 X-Fade: but seriously, I have posts which got imported but never appeared on news Apr 28 06:34:39 (do it while you're watching a movie) Apr 28 06:34:55 or get someone to send you an sms (again, while you're watching a movie) Apr 28 06:35:01 timeless_mbp: ok, but what are these notifications called ? "programming wise" Apr 28 06:35:12 e-i-do-not-care Apr 28 06:35:15 X-Fade: I know they are boring but probably not to the extent of completely leaving them out of news :) Apr 28 06:37:57 achipa_nettop: X-Fade = Niels Apr 28 06:38:45 achipa_nettop: if we just keep highlighting the word X-Fade, he'll have to wake up and reply eventually Apr 28 06:39:17 crashanddie: you reckon X-Fade is sensitive to such things ? Apr 28 06:39:32 well he is X-Fade after all Apr 28 06:39:50 i've never met an X-Fade who could ignore all the highlighting continuously Apr 28 06:40:01 so i reckon he will come back to us, ain't that right X-Fade? Apr 28 06:40:32 ~yawn Apr 28 06:40:34 *YAWN* I get *YAWN* tired just thinking of large boxes of unknown substances being poured into nooks and crannies and eaten by little monsters that like to kill fluffy bunnies and oh god I'm tired.. Apr 28 06:40:41 Categories: webos Apr 28 06:40:43 wtf Apr 28 06:40:54 ~xyawn is coffee||nap Apr 28 06:40:55 DocScrutinizer: okay Apr 28 06:41:02 ~xyawn Apr 28 06:41:03 rumour has it, xyawn is nap Apr 28 06:41:10 night Apr 28 06:41:47 from 10 maemo related keyword it picks webos... great Apr 28 06:42:15 let’s see if X-Fade has something against webos Apr 28 06:47:27 yep, webos trumps meego, meego trumps maemo Apr 28 06:49:17 good/bad thing i'm putting myself in the firing line btw? :P Apr 28 06:52:16 hey do qt 4.6 apps run straight up in kde? Apr 28 06:53:10 mece yes if you have the 4.6 libraries Apr 28 06:53:21 Stskeeps: depends on your amount of masochistic tendencies Apr 28 06:53:35 Stskeeps: probably both :) my guess you’ll get the regular mix of praises and rants from grumpy bones Apr 28 06:53:38 DocScrutinizer: big, obviously - i wrote scratchbox on my resume ;) Apr 28 06:53:56 * Stskeeps goes answer some more posts Apr 28 06:54:06 I particularly like this answer: Apr 28 06:54:07 Stskeeps: you mean you wrote you LIKE scratchbox ? Apr 28 06:54:14 "Yes, I'm getting to your post - don't worry. I will answer posts but not immediately, just woke up an hour ago" Apr 28 06:54:17 :P Apr 28 06:54:31 achipa_nettop: no, i know how to tame it Apr 28 06:55:02 (crowd goes ’aaaw’) Apr 28 06:55:21 tekojo, thanks. Apr 28 06:55:40 Stskeeps: is it the torreador approach or the more common pamplona ’run for it’ style ? Apr 28 06:56:21 achipa_nettop: hehe Apr 28 06:57:23 * DocScrutinizer has decided you never must miss an opportunity to have a coffee. Especially when you had just 1h of sleep :-P Apr 28 06:59:17 sorry ibot, try again Apr 28 06:59:23 ~xyawn Apr 28 06:59:24 well, xyawn is nap Apr 28 06:59:31 ~xyawn Apr 28 06:59:53 tzz, took a nap Apr 28 07:00:00 frals: damn, kinetic scrolling on a treeview is seriously slow :p Apr 28 07:00:21 scrolling is choppy almost anywhere Apr 28 07:01:21 qt treeview? Apr 28 07:01:55 gtk Apr 28 07:02:31 why I'm not surprised? Apr 28 07:02:49 morning Apr 28 07:02:58 moo Apr 28 07:03:37 djeezus Apr 28 07:03:43 some people need to learn how to use forums Apr 28 07:03:54 some??? Apr 28 07:04:18 Posting a single image, without any other information, as a new thread, in the wrong section, as a first post. http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=630999&postcount=1 Apr 28 07:04:45 tekojo, kubuntu 9.10 got libQtGui.so.4.6.2, so I guess it should run straight up.. Apr 28 07:05:41 mece: maybe. Gotta check what repos are loaded Apr 28 07:05:59 mece you should be ok with that Apr 28 07:06:14 naturally the Maemo specific library isnt' there Apr 28 07:06:43 but it's simplest to develop on desktop and cross compile when you are fairly certain that it should work :) Apr 28 07:06:51 nice. Apr 28 07:07:52 crashanddie: Pecan. Nuff said. Apr 28 07:09:00 tekojo and mece, It seems that Kubuntu 9.10 uses qt 4.5 but the next one which will be released this week will be using qt 4.6.2 Apr 28 07:09:17 Nailbar, righty-o. Apr 28 07:09:54 crashanddie, LOL looks like it's going to be an epic thread. Comment #3 lays the foundations. Apr 28 07:10:04 indeed Apr 28 07:12:43 mece: I replied :) Apr 28 07:17:02 lmao Apr 28 07:17:05 crashanddie, you replied, I LOL'd Apr 28 07:18:12 what is the dev channel for maemo ? Apr 28 07:18:14 :) Apr 28 07:18:15 hey what's a good qt widget to display a list of stuff that can look like a notepad with dashes or something? can the list'view be styled? Apr 28 07:18:21 m2cm2c: #uberdev Apr 28 07:18:37 ? Apr 28 07:18:38 mece: eh? notepad with dashes Apr 28 07:18:41 well Apr 28 07:18:43 no Apr 28 07:18:45 what is it called Apr 28 07:18:47 damn, I fell for it Apr 28 07:18:50 #maemo-devel? Apr 28 07:18:52 the lines on a paper Apr 28 07:19:06 DocScrutinizer, ty Apr 28 07:19:11 m2cm2c, what doc said. Apr 28 07:19:12 :D Apr 28 07:19:16 there's a #maemo-devel channel? Apr 28 07:19:24 yes Apr 28 07:19:31 not really Apr 28 07:19:50 crashanddie, yes. It's full, but all you see are those rolling bushes from sergio leone movies. Apr 28 07:20:01 ah Apr 28 07:20:17 anyway Apr 28 07:20:46 crashanddie, I meant the blue lines on here: http://www.swayze.to/images/notepad-trans.png Apr 28 07:22:08 mece, theres an app that looks like that, Im' not sure if it is a widget or even qt :> Apr 28 07:22:23 mece: textview.set_buffer('_' * width * height) Apr 28 07:22:32 :d Apr 28 07:23:27 anyways I have keyboard shorcut enabled for my live focus app, but still a gui would be nicer without that blurring effect Apr 28 07:23:48 I give up :> Apr 28 07:24:33 I'm too lazy to put in in extras tbh -.- Apr 28 07:24:58 m2cm2c: in short (because I'm about to leave for the pub): it's going to be very, very tough. The blurring effect conflicts with whatever overlay is used to display the webcam Apr 28 07:25:33 m2cm2c: if you need to see the cam output, just make a fullscreen window and show the camera output in small, so that your options/effects menu can be shown at the same time as the output Apr 28 07:25:50 if you don't care about seeing the video output, just hide it completely -- will always be better than some ugly artefact Apr 28 07:26:12 crashanddie, the user has to see how well the focus is going Apr 28 07:26:31 m2cm2c: then show your own cropped/zoomed in image Apr 28 07:26:34 crashanddie, but about that camera output, I think I could use gstreamer for that Apr 28 07:26:47 a good technique is to show the camera output in small + tap to zoom in on the area Apr 28 07:26:52 crashanddie, but still it would conflict with the camera app Apr 28 07:26:57 no it wouldn't Apr 28 07:27:05 crashanddie, oh ? Apr 28 07:27:11 don't think it would Apr 28 07:27:15 there's ways around it, lead the way Apr 28 07:27:20 crashanddie, I should give that a try Apr 28 07:27:21 it's the proper way to do it anyway Apr 28 07:27:44 crashanddie, but I don't want to make a new camera app if you nkow what I mean Apr 28 07:28:46 fair enough Apr 28 07:29:04 anyway, beer o'clock Apr 28 07:29:04 later Apr 28 07:41:58 yes hello Apr 28 07:42:09 sup Apr 28 07:48:45 damn gstreamer conflicts with camera app -.- Apr 28 07:49:55 mece, something like "sticky notes"? Apr 28 07:56:56 I want a portable device that will let me create and adheres to the freedom that lays in my heart Apr 28 07:57:35 should it be usable too? Apr 28 07:59:03 Hi ! Apr 28 08:02:40 finland has a lot of nice rocks Apr 28 08:03:01 just what every country needs Apr 28 08:03:15 pupnik: are you talking about music ? Apr 28 08:03:52 no big boulders visible in the ground Apr 28 08:04:01 :) Apr 28 08:04:25 but they have also nice metal group :) Apr 28 08:04:38 often with trees growing on them Apr 28 08:06:07 also bathrooms that are one bug shower Apr 28 08:06:10 big Apr 28 08:09:01 * timeless_mbp sighs Apr 28 08:09:09 what you people use to play 640x352 XVID movies? Apr 28 08:09:13 my pay as you go sim just got a spam call Apr 28 08:09:28 if i want to opt out of spam calls, i have to pay for 2 minutes Apr 28 08:09:51 "mplayer -ao pulse -vo xv(something)" blocks from time to time (movie played from MyDocs) Apr 28 08:09:59 hrw: Shouldn't that just work on the default player? Apr 28 08:10:27 depends on the container used Apr 28 08:10:34 but in general, it does Apr 28 08:10:38 avi Apr 28 08:10:42 then it does Apr 28 08:11:39 X-Fade: recently it stopped playing anything Apr 28 08:11:48 mp3, ogg, divx avi etc Apr 28 08:11:50 hrw: Huh? Apr 28 08:11:59 do they all come back with unsupported format errors? Apr 28 08:12:04 nid0: yep Apr 28 08:12:11 if so, you just need a reboot, cos you tried to play something it doesnt like Apr 28 08:12:12 6823? Apr 28 08:12:21 bug 6823 Apr 28 08:12:22 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6823 media player won't play any video files now (.avi) divx / xvid Apr 28 08:12:26 sometimes playing 1 file the dsp doesnt like = it locks up and wont play anything till reboot Apr 28 08:13:45 andre__: looks like another 'get lost user' type of error ;( Apr 28 08:15:17 Morning, all Apr 28 08:15:31 Morning Jaffa Apr 28 08:16:21 morning Apr 28 08:16:59 X-Fade: sooo, if you had hiccups this morning you probably know why :) Apr 28 08:17:21 Not enough coffee? Apr 28 08:17:48 X-Fade: but the real question is why are some planet maemo articles missing from the news/planet page Apr 28 08:18:07 even though they are present on the author’s page for that feed (on planet) Apr 28 08:18:55 achipa_nettop: I don't see a problem? Apr 28 08:18:59 Examples? Apr 28 08:19:15 http://maemo.org/news//planet-maemo/category/feed:20e14981bcc7b85f9f32745be320eae2/ Apr 28 08:19:21 last post, from yesterday Apr 28 08:19:31 not present (=missing) in planet and news Apr 28 08:19:52 might be others, too, but obviously I noticed for my post first :) Apr 28 08:20:12 achipa_nettop: I see it on the planet? Only on page2 Apr 28 08:21:06 ~curse nokia Apr 28 08:21:07 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nokia ! Apr 28 08:22:18 hey, administrating wXP ain't bad Apr 28 08:22:50 timeless_mbp: want to do that with my wife's laptop? Apr 28 08:23:10 timeless_mbp: xpsp2 which hangs on installing xpsp3 or mswie8 Apr 28 08:24:47 hrw: sure, bring it over :) Apr 28 08:25:40 aaw crud. I have to manually wrap text in QListWidget? yawn. Apr 28 08:25:46 ~xyawn Apr 28 08:25:48 xyawn is, like, nap Apr 28 08:25:51 haha Apr 28 08:26:08 X-Fade: hm... the date is off.. Apr 28 08:26:36 X-Fade: but this seems to be some blogspot draft-silly-date Apr 28 08:26:41 X-Fade: sorry for the noise Apr 28 08:27:08 achipa_nettop: When you start to write it, that is the date blogger sets in he feed. Apr 28 08:27:13 *the feed Apr 28 08:30:46 * mece is loving QtSDK a little, but not fully. Apr 28 08:41:32 mornin alls Apr 28 08:42:40 hoping someone clever can help.... i'm aware that the Touchscreen is input3... and can see it on the device, any idea if there is a way to read out how much pressure is being put on the screen? (Saw the driver code, and can see pressure mentioned in it alot) - but not helping me in figuring out how to read it Apr 28 08:43:38 I assume you've parsed the output of event3, and not found it? Apr 28 08:49:09 yeah SpeedEvil Apr 28 08:49:24 i'm thinking maybe hal or dbus may be able to do it? Apr 28 08:53:56 Stskeeps, shoulda gone to the lists instead of Talk. :rolleyes: Apr 28 08:54:11 GAN900: nah, the problems are mainly at talk, so better to take the issues up front Apr 28 08:54:12 Stskeeps, but, hey, at least he proved Nathan wrong! :P Apr 28 08:55:34 * GAN900 suspects a "This is what's up with Mer and why you're not getting a backport and why MeeGo is the way forward" approach would've been more productive than "Everybody take a pot shot" Apr 28 08:55:54 meh, tried Apr 28 08:55:54 :P Apr 28 08:56:25 :) Apr 28 08:59:10 X-Fade: just to bug you a little more, how is the 'category' determined from the labels ? My post had a java label originally, which I subsequently removed as that was not really the focus, then I got to be webos, and now it's meego. Does it take the first one ? Last one ? Or ? Apr 28 08:59:11 * GAN900 is amazed at the level those pot shots are stooping to. Apr 28 08:59:29 Not that I should be, but still. Apr 28 08:59:42 GAN900: if anything, i have somewhere to refer to as in 'we had this argument already' Apr 28 09:02:37 X-Fade: also, it doesn't seem to update the date... which I guess I understand... but now have the urge to bump my post :) Apr 28 09:10:33 Hi all. Apr 28 09:10:52 i had a rather wierd thing happen to my n900 last night.. Apr 28 09:10:59 ooo Apr 28 09:11:02 it made the tea? Apr 28 09:11:08 i wish :P Apr 28 09:11:26 i had it connected to my computer. using it as a modem. Apr 28 09:11:32 :D Apr 28 09:11:45 bluetooth? Apr 28 09:11:48 or just wireless? Apr 28 09:11:51 downloading stuff over torrent. when it suddenly made a wierd sound and shutdown. Apr 28 09:11:57 cable Apr 28 09:12:00 ahhh okies Apr 28 09:12:04 hot? Apr 28 09:12:08 overclocked? Apr 28 09:12:11 no not at all Apr 28 09:12:14 nope Apr 28 09:12:14 have to ask :P Apr 28 09:12:22 the wierd noise - did it sound like an explosion in a bell factory/ Apr 28 09:12:30 bell factory actually Apr 28 09:12:30 ok so a standard device, and was doing the usuals then just bleeped and died? Apr 28 09:12:39 If so, that's the empty battery shutdown Apr 28 09:12:42 do you know what the boot reason was? Apr 28 09:12:49 * noobmonk3y smiles Apr 28 09:12:58 yea basicly Apr 28 09:13:03 connected to computer will not provide enough power for downloading torrents Apr 28 09:13:08 boot_reason (Ie msg device sends out) Apr 28 09:13:24 the battery will slowly discharge Apr 28 09:13:24 thats the conclussion i came too aswell. just needed to confirm it :) ty Apr 28 09:13:25 SpeedEvil: good point :D Apr 28 09:13:27 and shutdown Apr 28 09:13:47 The noise is confusing. Apr 28 09:13:49 battery monitor or similar installed? Apr 28 09:13:53 It should play 'Daisy Daisy'. Apr 28 09:13:58 lol SpeedEvil Apr 28 09:14:15 :P no i havent installed any battery monitor apps Apr 28 09:14:23 Hello Apr 28 09:14:24 :D Apr 28 09:15:10 any one knows why I get "Not enough memory in target location" Apr 28 09:15:50 KnightStalker, try: # apt-get clean Apr 28 09:16:12 KnightStalker: - rootfs full Apr 28 09:16:18 ¬rootfs Apr 28 09:16:20 meh Apr 28 09:16:23 ~rootfs Apr 28 09:16:25 extra, extra, read all about it, rootfs is mount ro, but all the nessary files that need to be writen to are created in a ramdisk that is rw Apr 28 09:16:26 :P Apr 28 09:16:41 lol i love infobot Apr 28 09:17:08 http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space Apr 28 09:17:15 grr Apr 28 09:17:16 ~battery Apr 28 09:17:17 [battery] made by Danionics http://www.danionics.com/products/icphh02.asp, or at http://www.handhelds.org/handhelds-faq/questions.html#AEN744 Apr 28 09:17:20 could not lock file Apr 28 09:17:30 plastun,your command failed =( =( Apr 28 09:17:31 KnightStalker: got app manager open? Apr 28 09:17:37 Yes Apr 28 09:17:41 close it ;) Apr 28 09:17:45 app manager uses the same command Apr 28 09:17:46 oh,that sowwy :P Apr 28 09:17:48 KnightStalker, why? Apr 28 09:17:48 both cant run together Apr 28 09:18:02 noobmonk3y, true Apr 28 09:18:11 Trizt: so, you should get an updated localization set soon Apr 28 09:19:28 Trizt: if you could lemme know if things get better, that'd be great Apr 28 09:19:29 * KnightStalker closed the app manager the command still failed,restarting device :p Apr 28 09:20:18 KnightStalker, your device is little mistyc :) Apr 28 09:20:41 mistyc? Apr 28 09:21:44 mystic :) Apr 28 09:22:47 morning RevdKathy Apr 28 09:22:50 woops Apr 28 09:22:55 I have had forgotten the sudo part :P Apr 28 09:23:58 moaning Apr 28 09:25:14 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=631102&postcount=26 haha Apr 28 09:25:26 Problem Fixed Apr 28 09:25:30 thanks plastun =) Apr 28 09:25:53 SpeedEvil: harsh crowd today Apr 28 09:25:59 thats very harsh Apr 28 09:26:24 Harsh, but fair. Assuming that Stskeeps can SEE THE FUTURE! Apr 28 09:26:31 He can, can't he? Apr 28 09:26:44 future can be changed by our actions Apr 28 09:26:45 ;) Apr 28 09:26:56 or by observing my work, you altered the future! Apr 28 09:26:57 :P Apr 28 09:27:42 The notion that meego peeps diddn't at least glance at mer, seems unlikely Apr 28 09:27:59 Though the goals in many ways are obvious. Apr 28 09:31:10 * SpeedEvil wishes there was some nice way to get a list of running processes from one file. Apr 28 09:31:13 Oh well. Apr 28 09:31:35 lsof ? Apr 28 09:31:46 Currently trying to do a battery analyser to plot 'stuff' happening every 5s. Apr 28 09:32:18 From '10 bytes network transfer over 3g' to 'xchat scheduled for 1/100th of a second last 5s'. Apr 28 09:32:20 Fun. Apr 28 09:32:33 I mean in a single fopen. Apr 28 09:33:23 ok Apr 28 09:33:26 I suppose I'll have to look into something else than awk to write it in. (as awk has no readdir Apr 28 09:33:31 another stolen concept from me Apr 28 09:33:35 n8? Apr 28 09:33:36 ? Apr 28 09:33:36 fuck that Apr 28 09:33:39 :o Apr 28 09:33:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqRZt01jOr4 Apr 28 09:34:03 wazd: well - if you're referring to me, my rate of progress is quite slow. Apr 28 09:34:04 ah Apr 28 09:34:11 * Stskeeps looks Apr 28 09:34:19 wazd: which one of them? Apr 28 09:34:27 good day Apr 28 09:34:29 http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/omweather-0-3-preview-and-support/ Apr 28 09:34:45 Stskeeps: horizontal day scroll Apr 28 09:35:04 Stskeeps: they didn't have it before, and actually no app did Apr 28 09:35:12 omweater would be nice the forecast would be even near to what really is happening :) Apr 28 09:35:22 wazd: calendar? Apr 28 09:35:23 foreca weather is much more accurate for finland at least Apr 28 09:35:32 wazd: ah, the famous simpsons did it.. Apr 28 09:35:34 * SpeedEvil hugs yr.no Apr 28 09:35:42 wazd: you should start patenting your concepts Apr 28 09:35:43 :P Apr 28 09:35:47 yr.no is awesome Apr 28 09:35:50 Surfa: write a letter to weather.com Apr 28 09:36:09 well, or just use foreca weather Apr 28 09:36:26 wazd, while you're concepting, please please concept actually usable bluemaemo, I don't know who designed it, but it's awful :( Apr 28 09:36:37 omweather 0.3 is looking good wazd Apr 28 09:36:43 http://api.met.no/weatherapi/probabilityforecast/1.1/documentation Apr 28 09:36:52 TomaszD: I've designed it Apr 28 09:36:56 wazd: You published an article saying "this'd be really good"; OMWeather didn't implement it (AFAIK) and then complain that someone else did? Presumably the problem is that the video doesn't have, in big flashing letters throughout, "horizontal day scroll inspired by wazd"? Apr 28 09:37:02 TomaszD: at least n900 version Apr 28 09:37:02 Hello all, I just wanted to ask if anyone had any news about the MeeGo project's relation to Maemo 6 Apr 28 09:37:14 wazd, oh :( geez dude, it wasn't your day, really Apr 28 09:37:27 * Stskeeps votes for early weekend Apr 28 09:37:39 Roland, there is won't be such thing as maemo 6 Apr 28 09:37:41 wazd, I wish I could force you to use the bluemaemo keyboard to see how unusable it is :) Apr 28 09:37:46 Jaffa: I published an article what we're working on Apr 28 09:37:52 hmm, wheres vdvsx when you need him Apr 28 09:38:20 Surfa I hope that means current maemo devices will all run MeeGo? After necessary kernel upgrades of course Apr 28 09:38:29 why would they? Apr 28 09:38:31 frals: I think you were quite close to him last week? Apr 28 09:38:36 wazd: Perhaps it's a perfect example of how the Qt SDK enables faster developer turnaround ;-) Apr 28 09:38:41 have you ever seen symbian 3.1 phone running symbian 3.2? :) Apr 28 09:38:49 Jaffa: yep, awesome Apr 28 09:38:51 X-Fade: yeah, i met him.. but i need him now :D Apr 28 09:38:56 TomaszD: you can't Apr 28 09:38:57 No of course not with Symbian Apr 28 09:39:03 or, "need" :) Apr 28 09:39:07 wazd, you don't have an n900 right? Apr 28 09:39:14 TomaszD: bingo Apr 28 09:39:20 frals: Hehe, ok. Apr 28 09:39:33 Roland: n900 has a hardware adaptation team for it and n8x0 is in works by community, well, once the flames die down Apr 28 09:39:35 wazd, would you like a usability study of the application, would you use it for improvements? Apr 28 09:39:53 But I hoped that the N900 being a Linux based device meant we can chose our own OS's Apr 28 09:39:58 TomaszD: no, thanks Apr 28 09:40:14 Roland, other way around, do you see n8xx devices running maemo5? Apr 28 09:40:18 wazd, but it's really bad, it's nothing personal Apr 28 09:40:19 Roland: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213 Apr 28 09:40:21 TomaszD: let it be a good example of "what happens when designer doesn't have a device to test" Apr 28 09:40:25 No but are they Linux based? Apr 28 09:40:33 wazd, oh yes, but let's not punish everyone for it Apr 28 09:40:34 yes? Apr 28 09:40:48 TomaszD: have I punished anyone yet? Apr 28 09:41:09 wazd, the design punishes users :) Apr 28 09:41:13 not you personally Apr 28 09:41:22 TomaszD: Or lack of.. Apr 28 09:41:24 This is kind of disappointing... Apr 28 09:41:47 X-Fade, yeah, unfortunately true :( Apr 28 09:41:47 They call the N900 a computer like device and you're stuck with the samne OS as long as you own it? Apr 28 09:41:57 TomaszD: VDVsx is the lead developer, you can post feedback to him Apr 28 09:42:08 wazd, thanks Apr 28 09:42:10 Roland: go read my post i just pointed you to Apr 28 09:42:19 Roland: you can try to install other OS but then it will lose phone functionality Apr 28 09:42:27 Roland, that's not the point.. read the article Stskeeps pasted for you Apr 28 09:42:43 hrw, this is actually getting helped, it seems like Apr 28 09:42:46 Will do Apr 28 09:42:51 hrw: speech path lib was released Apr 28 09:43:14 Stskeeps: The Following 424 Users Say Thank You to Stskeeps For This Useful Post: Apr 28 09:43:19 but officially n900 is and probably will stay as maemo5 device, unofficially it may be whatever you want Apr 28 09:43:21 Stskeeps: and who you are after that? :D Apr 28 09:43:21 Stskeeps: and still no dialer/sms etc Apr 28 09:43:27 wazd: a karma whore Apr 28 09:43:27 I've already read this post. I found it through Google last night... Apr 28 09:43:37 hrw: it's getting better Apr 28 09:43:43 it doesn't make sense to support officially too many hw platforms Apr 28 09:43:55 you may find the reasoning, if you just like to Apr 28 09:44:00 Makes sense for Google Apr 28 09:44:20 n900 is missing plenty of hw capabilities that new device will probably have Apr 28 09:44:30 so n900 version would be somewhat deprecated anyway Apr 28 09:44:32 Stskeeps: maybe one day FSO guys will decide to adapt n900 so some apps will exists. Apr 28 09:44:36 Every Android device gets an OS update once the new version of Android is released.... That's what I call mobile computing. Apr 28 09:44:39 w 28 Apr 28 09:44:41 Roland: http://meegoportal.com/?p=127 Apr 28 09:44:47 are we discussing "omg wtf meego on n900?!?!?!"? Apr 28 09:44:54 Stskeeps: so far oFono is only listed as something which exists but no one yet used rather Apr 28 09:44:55 Roland: actually. they don't Apr 28 09:45:00 Roland: wat? Apr 28 09:45:01 http://i.imgur.com/AuATX.jpg Apr 28 09:45:08 * Stskeeps often hears of devices that haven't gotten the latest updates yet Apr 28 09:45:09 argh Apr 28 09:45:12 not here Apr 28 09:45:15 lots of android devices are stuck on the version they come with forever Apr 28 09:45:23 seriously? Apr 28 09:45:26 seriously Apr 28 09:45:34 good morning Apr 28 09:45:35 Roland, as you may have noticed, your'e pretty wrong with that :) Apr 28 09:45:35 even iphone are leaving behind older devices now too Apr 28 09:45:51 then as a developer i'd say the term "mobile computing" is far from being ready to be used Apr 28 09:46:02 hi florian Apr 28 09:46:04 Roland, there are good reasons for that Apr 28 09:46:18 Roland: at least the situation seems more interesting with n900. Apr 28 09:46:19 :P Apr 28 09:46:22 every vendor and hw manufacturer are making this and that with whatever they feel comfortable with Apr 28 09:46:33 that's not quite the case with pc:s for example Apr 28 09:46:52 Roland: when I got first notice of a friend buying a motorola droid I told him that motorola is known for non-existance of SW updates and they have to update their android on their own Apr 28 09:46:58 Roland: It takes many, many man-hours to port shit. Apr 28 09:47:00 I'm sure there are. I never programmed with mobile API's so I'm sure mobile OS developers have their reasons Apr 28 09:47:00 there aren't that standardized things to work with in mobile devices Apr 28 09:47:37 Roland: This is a significant cost - especially when your software vendors often want paid for included apps, or want teh apps which they have developed to keep working Apr 28 09:47:44 thats why java was so famous a while ago Apr 28 09:47:58 java would still be nice Apr 28 09:48:04 even on the maemo and meego Apr 28 09:48:25 there's plenty of good stuff implemented with java.. Apr 28 09:48:36 Java's my language and I love its plantform independency Apr 28 09:48:37 not having to use java was one of the reasons why i bought an n900 ;) Apr 28 09:48:45 Surfa: give an example pls Apr 28 09:49:18 chem|st, geocaching live, and don't ask for more.. you can do that study by yourself too Apr 28 09:49:54 What does it do that gpxview doesn't for example? Apr 28 09:50:09 Surfa: mmh still nothing missing Apr 28 09:50:48 chem|st, so there must be nothing that anyone could be missing? Apr 28 09:51:03 Surfa: my previous phone was full of java programs and I do not miss a single one of them Apr 28 09:51:24 SpeedEvil, a lots of things, gpxview is kind of pile of shit compared to gc-live :) Apr 28 09:51:40 fair enough. Have you commented on teh issues to the developer? Apr 28 09:52:11 well treckbuddy was nice Apr 28 09:52:15 not really as I have spare e71 to use and i get more than enough sw development at work :) Apr 28 09:52:51 and there are plenty of things that won't probably ever be implemented, even that developer wanted to Apr 28 09:52:59 because of geocaching.com Apr 28 09:53:38 oh, Quim allowed Vlad to keep n900 Apr 28 09:53:46 cool Apr 28 09:56:59 Stskeeps: seriously, 424 thanks for one post! Apr 28 09:57:15 Stskeeps: your're not a whole, you're a karma addict now :D Apr 28 09:57:20 whore* Apr 28 09:59:18 wazd: and at the same time there's people who think i should be fired, the mind boggles.. Apr 28 09:59:31 Stskeeps: As you should be ;) Apr 28 09:59:48 Tsss, doing things for the community.. Apr 28 10:00:00 Who does stuff like that. Apr 28 10:00:12 Stskeeps: everyone who thinks this way will face me before :D Apr 28 10:00:12 Stskeeps: so um Apr 28 10:00:15 communists! Apr 28 10:00:23 did you see that your build didn't work on my disadvantaged computer? Apr 28 10:00:31 Stskeeps: and nobody wants to face 2m high pissed off designer :D Apr 28 10:01:20 timeless_mbp: no Apr 28 10:01:20 Stskeeps: What I have learnt about doing a job in a community is that you never can satisfy everybody. Apr 28 10:01:53 And there are more people that don't complain than ones that do, so you're doing a good thing :) Apr 28 10:03:09 :nod: Apr 28 10:04:01 http://pastebin.mozilla.org/719104 Apr 28 10:04:44 timeless_mbp: well, the system is built against a modern kernel, so there's not much i can do in that regard - entire meego is built that way :/ Apr 28 10:05:38 Stskeeps: the fact that the kernel actually affects userspace outside libc is totally broken Apr 28 10:05:49 timeless_mbp: ask ulrich depper Apr 28 10:05:49 :P Apr 28 10:14:12 Stskeeps: http://darkswarm.org/whosyerdaddy-0.5.sh :o Apr 28 10:14:58 timeless_mbp: if you run that on the chroot, i can't say there won't be bad consequences Apr 28 10:15:02 :P Apr 28 10:15:35 Stskeeps: why do i get the feeling i already deleted your .tgz Apr 28 10:15:50 hrm, i didn't :) Apr 28 10:16:41 wah Apr 28 10:16:47 [timeless@domU-12-31-39-0A-8C-36 lib]$ ../../whosyerdaddy-0.5.sh Apr 28 10:16:48 whosyerdaddy 0.5, a workaround for broken Folding@Home client 6.29 binaries Apr 28 10:16:48 Copyright (c) 2010 by Kris Rusocki Apr 28 10:16:48 Licensed under GPLv2 Apr 28 10:16:48 ERROR: libc.so.6 not an ELF64 binary! Apr 28 10:25:31 are there no qt4 libraries in the repos currently? Apr 28 10:26:49 mece, there should be qt-maemo5-* in extras-devel right? Apr 28 10:26:56 there was a repo post on this Apr 28 10:27:05 (from council, i think) Apr 28 10:28:16 the simulator is not working properly, I need to test this on device... Apr 28 10:29:58 it's throwing 404's on the libqt packages... Apr 28 10:31:24 i don't know if interested people are still here or not, but this is something that popped up lately: http://www.nokian900applications.com/dual-boot-with-meego-and-maemo-5-in-nokia-n900 Apr 28 10:31:43 that's nice. Apr 28 10:32:11 couple of days old, but not everyone has necessarily spotted that Apr 28 10:32:20 Stskeeps, if I'm reading the council post correctly, it's telling me that I'm screwed. Apr 28 10:34:52 Surfa: Well, it's a couple of days since that site reported it. But it's over a week old in practice, IIRC Apr 28 10:35:28 Surfa: Such value being added by "nokian900applications.com" in just repasting the mailing list post in its entirety. Apr 28 10:35:43 hee Apr 28 10:35:49 Jaffa, i know, but it's somehow related to earlier discussion Apr 28 10:36:13 It was also included in last week's MWKN digest: http://www.mwkn.net/2010/17/devices.html#devices-1 :-) Apr 28 10:36:19 i don't really care if they are fast or slow or copy or write, but the content is pretty much ok Apr 28 10:40:32 Stskeeps, uh.. got it working. nice. Apr 28 10:41:36 gents, I'm stuck. I'm trying to create a gtk.ListStore in python -- I need a dynamic number of columns, but you can only use one function call to create all the columns Apr 28 10:42:38 and obviously, you have to enumerate all the columns (can't pass a tuple or something) Apr 28 10:50:06 found it :) gtk.ListStore(*mytuple) Apr 28 11:07:14 Jaffa: where do you get the top downloads information from for mwkn - i never seem to see healthcheck as 'popular' in the downloads - http://maemo.org/downloads/score/Maemo5/25/ Apr 28 11:07:34 so Apr 28 11:07:55 the image that is available for n900 at meego.com, is that usable? Apr 28 11:08:03 tybollt: the terminal version? Apr 28 11:08:10 (yes, I've been away traveling for a few weeks :) Apr 28 11:08:18 :D - its basically a terminal :P Apr 28 11:08:25 noobmonk3y: To get the differences it compares downloads from one week to the next Apr 28 11:08:32 noobmonk3y: I've _no idea_ what-so-ever it is... Apr 28 11:08:41 noobmonk3y: So that's it's more dynamic than the very very static list of "hot" Apr 28 11:08:53 ahhh cool :D - been very confused with downloads as 2 days ago it showed as 54k downloads yesterday was 51k, and 54k again today! lol Apr 28 11:08:59 Jaffa: That is actually not true ;) Apr 28 11:09:13 noobmonk3y: ? terminal, like what, it's a linux kernel that boots into a busybox and the prompt says "meego" or what? :) Apr 28 11:09:18 Jaffa: Hot is not static anymore, the top downloads list is though. Apr 28 11:09:25 tybollt: not farr off - imagine no gui :D Apr 28 11:09:38 noobmonk3y: not very sexy, is it? Apr 28 11:09:43 X-Fade: Well, I mean the algorithm favours long running popularity which is less useful when you snapshot it each week Apr 28 11:09:47 although Apr 28 11:09:53 tybollt: they are working on the sexyness, i think it is due may with 1.1 due oct time? Apr 28 11:09:57 I know my at commands... ;) Apr 28 11:10:07 Jaffa: No it does not for app karma. Apr 28 11:10:09 * noobmonk3y would love to see more detailed statistics :D Apr 28 11:10:14 noobmonk3y: fair enough. Apr 28 11:10:21 X-Fade: Hmm. Have there been recent tweaks? Apr 28 11:10:22 * frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout Apr 28 11:10:27 * noobmonk3y eats frals Apr 28 11:10:49 * noobmonk3y feels like he has just eaten a dirty kebab..... Apr 28 11:10:49 Jaffa: See the app karma formula. delta downloads since last week, delta comments and ratings. Apr 28 11:11:07 X-Fade: Yeah, but then multiplied with 0.9 of the previous value Apr 28 11:11:17 X-Fade: Purposefully to give stability Apr 28 11:11:19 tybollt: mentioned in mwkn i think - dual booting meego on the n900 is a target Apr 28 11:11:25 Jaffa: The actual every day stats give a lot of movement. Apr 28 11:11:44 are there more detailed stats available to us? or just for mwkn? Apr 28 11:12:08 noobmonk3y: I had to reverse engineer the ODS API Apr 28 11:12:09 noobmonk3y: They are stored in the graph page. Apr 28 11:12:15 ahhhhhhh Apr 28 11:12:22 noobmonk3y: http://maemo.org/ocs/v1/content/data/?parent=Maemo5&sortmode=down&pages Apr 28 11:12:25 ize=100 Apr 28 11:12:28 noobmonk3y: dualboot my cellphone? FACEPALM Apr 28 11:12:32 noobmonk3y: Wonderfully documented *cough* Apr 28 11:12:38 Graph is a javascript drawing it live. Apr 28 11:12:50 and X-Fade not hugely accurate, since h/c got one 4k downloads in a day, the rest look a bit flat, hard to see differences etc :D - thanks jaffa! Apr 28 11:12:50 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=627104 Apr 28 11:12:52 Jaffa: It actually is. Apr 28 11:12:55 * wazd facepalms Apr 28 11:13:12 Jaffa: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/open-collaboration-service Apr 28 11:13:19 X-Fade: The ODS API is, but there's no documentation that I could find on what the Maemo URLs for it are. Apr 28 11:13:42 X-Fade: Typical SOA delivery - without knowing the endpoint the documentation for the API itself isn't very helpful Apr 28 11:14:16 I actually think there is documentation in the api, let me check. Apr 28 11:14:31 is promotion broken for fremantle? Apr 28 11:14:52 :| Apr 28 11:14:56 hrw: no? Apr 28 11:14:59 I promoted mdbus2 2.0.0-4 and it is not in testing Apr 28 11:15:01 frals: has fmms taken over the world yet? :D Apr 28 11:15:09 noobmonk3y: bah Apr 28 11:15:22 hehe Apr 28 11:15:27 noobmonk3y: im blocked by stuff i cant fix without huge time investment by the looks of it :P Apr 28 11:15:33 awwww :( Apr 28 11:15:35 ops, sorry - did to testing... found it Apr 28 11:15:38 anything the rest of us can help with?> Apr 28 11:15:47 ie reimplementing how fremantle handles operator provisioning Apr 28 11:15:48 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/mdbus2/2.0.0-4/ Apr 28 11:15:55 * noobmonk3y meh's Apr 28 11:16:01 yeah someone can write a new provisioning service that works with the rest of the system ;D Apr 28 11:16:07 and doesnt throw away mms settings ;) Apr 28 11:16:16 frals - if i even understood half of that i would help :D Apr 28 11:17:24 * PhonicUK downloads new Qt Creator Beta, woo! :D Apr 28 11:17:32 hmmmm Apr 28 11:17:33 mdbus Apr 28 11:17:45 time to catch up on tvseries and finish my book Apr 28 11:17:50 lol frals Apr 28 11:17:51 wonder if i should have pizza with that Apr 28 11:17:55 i think you should Apr 28 11:17:59 so do i! Apr 28 11:25:37 -7win 32 Apr 28 11:25:41 wow.. nice Apr 28 11:32:57 WA_Maemo5LandscapeOrientation in pyside? Apr 28 11:33:21 I meant is there WA_Maemo5PortraitOrientation in pyside? Apr 28 11:36:11 hrw: is mdbus2 just cli? or is there a planned gui? Apr 28 11:36:40 noobmonk3y: cli only Apr 28 11:36:47 poo :( Apr 28 11:37:11 noobmonk3y: I do not see a sense of ui for such tool Apr 28 11:37:15 i erally need a walk through on dbus - as i have used a few examples, but something that lets me know whats available and what i can get out of it would be great! Apr 28 11:37:37 noobmonk3y: "mdbus2 -i" + tab key helps Apr 28 11:37:38 its just a load of text with no real meaning to me at the moment Apr 28 11:37:55 Stskeeps: You still don't feel as good as you felt this morning? Apr 28 11:38:00 tab key ... n900? :| Apr 28 11:38:08 DocScrutinizer: i has candy Apr 28 11:38:10 ooo yeah Apr 28 11:38:12 on x-term Apr 28 11:38:16 so i feel better ;) Apr 28 11:38:20 noobmonk3y: xterm has tab button... ssh session has it too Apr 28 11:38:23 smoke THAT and you really get off Apr 28 11:38:45 ok... got that but it still just lists a load of lines... Apr 28 11:39:14 i know that you can get info from com.nokia.CALLUI but just having it there doesnt mean much to me, Apr 28 11:39:21 noobmonk3y: which are dbus objects you can call on Apr 28 11:39:25 i wonder if there is an N900 dbus guide somewhere Apr 28 11:39:27 remoo btw Apr 28 11:39:38 noobmonk3y: wiki got a shitton of interfaces listed :p Apr 28 11:39:48 hrw - i suppose as i'm new to it, i understand how to call, but to figure out what i can call i need to try each and every one Apr 28 11:39:59 frals: none in simple english Apr 28 11:40:00 noobmonk3y: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS Apr 28 11:40:07 its a bit like the python guide, it shows you an example of one thing Apr 28 11:40:18 noobmonk3y: by monitoring dbus when starting apps you can see what they call Apr 28 11:40:30 frals - yup got that Apr 28 11:40:38 noobmonk3y: MDBUS2> org.freedesktop.Avahi / Apr 28 11:40:44 noobmonk3y: MDBUS2> org.freedesktop.Avahi / org.freedesktop.Avahi.Server.GetState Apr 28 11:40:49 i'm guessing jebba's page probably has about 10% of what dbus can actually do/see? Apr 28 11:40:58 yes Apr 28 11:41:03 even less id say Apr 28 11:41:05 at best Apr 28 11:41:06 :P Apr 28 11:41:19 thats what i'm thinking, a gui that lets me walk through them and see outputs etc..... Apr 28 11:41:20 soo.. any python bindings to the qt portait mode stuff? Apr 28 11:41:26 not all interfaces supports introspection either Apr 28 11:41:33 then i know what to target in my code, or even better what i can code lol Apr 28 11:41:37 noobmonk3y: pft, gui! dbus-monitor --system :P Apr 28 11:41:38 get mdbus2 Apr 28 11:41:50 frals: mdbus2 -sl :P Apr 28 11:42:05 mickeyl ftw Apr 28 11:42:11 lol tried both, means nothing to me Apr 28 11:42:20 hard to learn from scratch with this stuff :| Apr 28 11:42:36 noobmonk3y: no one told that dbus is sane and easy Apr 28 11:42:54 most hard thing is to conclude semantics of a call and parameters from the mere name Apr 28 11:42:58 noobmonk3y: read the dbus tutorial first and it should all make sense Apr 28 11:43:17 hrw - i suppose i may have the wrong view of it... but for example... i see dbus as a list of methods/calls... similar to a programming method, on the wiki pages i would see a list of the methods, + all the calls available........ Apr 28 11:43:29 too bad that lot of nokia objects lacks introspection Apr 28 11:43:40 WOW! Apr 28 11:43:43 found it :) Apr 28 11:43:45 frals: i understand what dbus is and how to use it, but not what i can get out of it..... it seems to be trial and error - and more error Apr 28 11:43:47 that's sweet Apr 28 11:43:51 works in scratchbox nicely :D Apr 28 11:44:15 mece: in november you will be able to check on device too Apr 28 11:44:15 so more a library of commands that is easily scrollable is a start - and unfortunatley cli apps just dont do it for me ;) Apr 28 11:44:29 hrw, I'm sure I could do it now. This is the old scratchbox Apr 28 11:44:48 mece: if you do listening on dbus to get orientation you can Apr 28 11:45:03 mece: qt 4.6.2/pr1.2 has is automated Apr 28 11:45:15 but no way to check does it work ofcourse Apr 28 11:45:20 hrw, but how about the old 4.6? Apr 28 11:45:29 heck I'll test it now. Apr 28 11:45:40 mece: 4.6/extras-devel == 4.6/pr1.2 Apr 28 11:45:52 mece: when it comes to autorotation stuff Apr 28 11:47:00 mece: http://gitorious.org/qt-module-player/qt-module-player/commit/be106df1f15875e4b3e47b58f3489957427f6509 is pr1.1 rotation, http://gitorious.org/qt-module-player/qt-module-player/commit/047c161675b2bf68abbdb089a80e2b71b3c8fb95 is pr1.2 rotation Apr 28 11:48:05 noobmonk3y: "mdbus2 -s org.freedesktop.Avahi / |less" in one terminal + coding in other? Apr 28 11:49:16 hrw: more like using apps for days in other 'terminal' - to get metric megatons of dbus log to read thru usually as you got no idea what to grep for Apr 28 11:49:21 hrw, well I can manually rotate Apr 28 11:50:46 just to learn in the end, e.g. addressbook isn't accessable over dbus Apr 28 11:52:29 start and end of ringtone isn't dbus... :-/ Apr 28 11:52:54 is there a libraray for ringtones? Apr 28 11:53:06 or does one play them using gstreamer? Apr 28 11:53:24 obviously not, at least never seen such thing yet Apr 28 11:53:30 ok Apr 28 11:53:37 DocScrutinizer: basically there are lot of things which are not dbus Apr 28 11:53:45 :| Apr 28 11:54:12 and at least as much are horribly 'documented' Apr 28 11:54:31 yep.. but at least there is some documentation Apr 28 11:54:48 orly? Apr 28 11:54:51 where? Apr 28 11:55:02 for what exactly? Apr 28 11:55:19 pick example as you like Apr 28 11:55:20 sECuRE: I more trust wiki pages written by community developers then to official nokia maemo docs Apr 28 11:55:44 doc: libosso-abook has a reference doc Apr 28 11:55:51 libalarm aswell Apr 28 11:56:01 I know - but that's not dbus, no? Apr 28 11:56:17 libalarm internally uses dbus Apr 28 11:56:26 but agreed, dbus docu could be more Apr 28 11:56:39 i had trouble to get it working, too Apr 28 12:00:51 * DocScrutinizer still waiting for O'Reilly Maemo5 Unleashed Apr 28 12:01:27 hehe Apr 28 12:02:54 * noobmonk3y agree's with DocScrutinizer Apr 28 12:03:00 * frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout Apr 28 12:03:04 * noobmonk3y giggles Apr 28 12:03:08 lol Apr 28 12:03:19 frals: that trout mnust be getting worn out by now Apr 28 12:03:27 im out of coke so need to go to the store :< Apr 28 12:03:31 but i cba leaving my chair Apr 28 12:03:34 any ideas? Apr 28 12:03:45 and yes, time for a new trout soon! Apr 28 12:04:24 frals: takeaway delivery Apr 28 12:04:57 frals: If you were next door, I'd take over my bottle of coke Apr 28 12:05:04 DocScrutinizer: someone plans to write such one? Apr 28 12:05:17 (though it is completely flat, having been in a hot attic since 2007) Apr 28 12:05:37 hrw - well volounteered! Apr 28 12:05:37 "from A like 'Upstart' to Z like 'sane partitioning alternatives and optification'. Now with addendum 'how to handle NOLO" Apr 28 12:06:00 you're expecting anyone dares to read the nolo code Apr 28 12:06:01 :P Apr 28 12:06:13 hrw: dunno Apr 28 12:06:41 it would have so much sense as writing 'AmigaOS 0.7 unleashed' book Apr 28 12:07:00 as it would describe not used OS when would get print Apr 28 12:07:15 Stskeeps: bah, we mastered uBoot and Qi :-P Apr 28 12:07:41 DocScrutinizer: what about redboot? Apr 28 12:08:01 not *my* cup of tea Apr 28 12:08:08 actually never heard of Apr 28 12:08:42 anyway, c'mon it's a silly BOOTLOADER ;-D Apr 28 12:09:05 plus a friggin flasher-tool Apr 28 12:10:29 for device without accessible serial port bootloader does not matter so much Apr 28 12:11:06 hmm, another nice topic for the addendum Apr 28 12:11:51 "what's those testpads? A simple way to interface and get even more out of your N900" Apr 28 12:13:19 morning andrew Apr 28 12:13:19 how to build your own debug jig Apr 28 12:13:49 DocScrutinizer: i wonder if anyone ever asked publically if they could have instructions how to interface with the serial port Apr 28 12:14:10 nobody dared ;-P Apr 28 12:14:18 that might be true Apr 28 12:14:38 The Nexus One provides a serial port through the Micro USB port - I wonder why Nokia didn't consider this same sort of thing for the n900? Apr 28 12:14:51 Termana: It depends on what is connectable easily to the USB port Apr 28 12:15:00 Termana: this sort of stuff isn't free unfortunately. Apr 28 12:15:03 Termana: technically we can have g_serial Apr 28 12:15:15 except not from very early in the process Apr 28 12:15:16 Termana: adding another function to the USB port can cost a substantial fraction of a dollar Apr 28 12:15:20 not if it's not in NOLO Apr 28 12:15:26 morning Stskeeps Apr 28 12:15:31 Termana: meaning that you add another dollar or so to the retail Apr 28 12:15:32 Stskeeps, Right, but thats not helpful if your doing bootloader/early kernel debugging Apr 28 12:16:19 agreed Apr 28 12:16:37 and for the things you really NEED a console, any g_serial mounted thru init process is too late and thus useless Apr 28 12:18:00 The N1 actually provides a REAL serial port through the Micro USB and the LK Bootloader (the bootloader used on the N1) sends out log messages over it, so this allows you to debug all the way through from start to finish Apr 28 12:18:50 SpeedEvil, Sure it might have been an extra dollar or two on top of the retail price, but I think the possibility it would give for low level developers would be worth it Apr 28 12:19:47 andrewfblack: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51204 Apr 28 12:20:52 Termana: There are probably around 20 'would be nice' things to have for developers. Apr 28 12:21:05 Termana: this would have added maybe $40 to the price. Apr 28 12:21:10 'N900 hacker edition' Apr 28 12:21:36 did you know you can access the serial port on the qemu emulated n900 with the meego image btw? Apr 28 12:21:40 :P Apr 28 12:22:27 Stskeeps: got a meeting will read in a minute Apr 28 12:22:30 andrewfblack: k Apr 28 12:23:00 3 axis magnetometer and gyro. IR reciever. IRDA capable reciever/transmitter. serial port accessible without removing the battery. keyboard matrix improvements, swappable emmc, FM reciever with good antenna tuner on an internal ariel, ... Apr 28 12:24:43 Nice dock connector, way to swap batteries without losing state, support for USB serial/video/audio/car dock/protocols on the usb. Apr 28 12:24:57 All of these are generally under a dollar Apr 28 12:25:54 Right, most of those would of probably been more important for application developers than low level developers though Apr 28 12:25:59 But I understand what your saying Apr 28 12:26:06 non-shitty frontcam Apr 28 12:26:42 actually - for low-level devs - simply making available for purchase the nokia debug adaptor which the phone slots onto would do it Apr 28 12:26:46 * noobmonk3y likes his shitty front-cam! Apr 28 12:26:48 that gets you as serial port Apr 28 12:26:50 mece, that was some fast fixing of your USB port :) Apr 28 12:27:17 There probably isn't that many people who would consider proper serial over micro usb important - I only find it interesting because I involve myself with kernel level development, but I doubt the majority or the masses would give a damn Apr 28 12:27:49 830MB later, I have the new SDK! :) Apr 28 12:28:18 And yes if the sold that, then it would be problem solved (sort of) - but AFAIK they don't. Apr 28 12:28:26 They do! Apr 28 12:28:34 (but only to nokia authorised repair centres) Apr 28 12:28:35 * noobmonk3y goes for lunch bbiab Apr 28 12:28:46 I havne't investigated how to become one. Apr 28 12:28:50 Right, so not helpful. Apr 28 12:28:51 :P Apr 28 12:31:20 maemo eh Apr 28 12:31:23 guess what Apr 28 12:31:50 my father acquired a n900 since he saw me using mine. now he's all "how do i turn it to silent" Apr 28 12:32:25 :D Apr 28 12:32:41 anyway nokia and making device developer friendly? no shit... Apr 28 12:33:00 ShadowJK, yeah, it was pretty amazing :D Apr 28 12:33:31 Hey is there a pyside-maemo5 package hanging around somewhere with working dependencies? Apr 28 12:34:06 Termana: (real basic serial over USB) will break the way NOLO is working to manage firmware flashing and bat charging Apr 28 12:35:15 KALIUMMANAATTI Apr 28 12:35:47 DocScrutinizer, So there is at least a partial technical reason why the couldn't have done it? Apr 28 12:38:19 Termana: yes. Generally speaking USB2 is really delicate with parasitary capacitance introduced by *any* additional components hooked up to the D+/- as well. Even Tranzorbs can be too much Apr 28 12:38:37 a multiplexer most likely is Apr 28 12:39:48 probably you could bitbang tty over the primary function GPIOs of the USB Apr 28 12:40:18 but that's still in conflict with USB.org specs I'd guess Apr 28 12:41:19 and as it stands USB.org cert specs killed our USB hostmode (though there's ever growing chances to resurrect it ;-) Apr 28 12:42:30 * MohammadAG thought it killed OTG :( Apr 28 12:44:55 ok so what is the PyQt4 equivalent of QMaemo5KinteicScroller ?? I can't find a reference manual anywhere. Apr 28 12:44:56 yeah, and en passant hostmode as well Apr 28 12:46:18 mece: QMaemo5KinteicScroller died already iirc Apr 28 12:46:35 mece: http://gitorious.org/qt-module-player/qt-module-player/commit/9ecdb7284dd7c369cc88323314009ab8dba76fc0 Apr 28 12:46:56 mece: kinetic scrolling is on by default now Apr 28 12:47:25 DocScrutinizer, there's still hope right? Apr 28 12:47:38 more than ever before Apr 28 12:48:04 :) Apr 28 12:49:04 hrw, so I just skip that one and it should work? Apr 28 12:49:07 hrw, that's nice. Apr 28 12:55:46 DocScrutinizer, what's this aobut usb now? A New Hope? Apr 28 13:00:09 hmm will I borken my phone if I install libqt4 from sdk repo? Apr 28 13:00:30 mece: hostmode on a logical level is just another sequence of databytes sent over the very same interface, so no issues except we need the correct driver to 'talk' host. musb_hdrc seems unable to do. HW side it's switchin between 1 R 2k2 pullup, and 2 x R 15k pulldown for the other mode. It's no real showstopper, even if we find we're not able to flip the corresponding bit in 1707 PHY chip. And then there's VBUS 5V supply. You could get away Apr 28 13:00:32 without that by using an externally powered hub, y-cable etc. But it seems the bq24150 batcharger chip can provide a decent 5V to the USB receptacle Apr 28 13:01:51 mece: saywhat ? QMaemo5KinteicScroller ? Apr 28 13:02:13 achipa, well it's something that apparently is not needed anymore. Apr 28 13:03:45 mece: there is an QAbstractScrollThingaMajig nowadays Apr 28 13:03:57 though you need to do some funky casting to get to it Apr 28 13:04:14 achipa it's automagical with QListWidget for example. Apr 28 13:04:19 mece: mainly we'd need a gifted kernel hacker to put a better driver than that piece of crap called musb_hdrc ( http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/musb/musb_core.c#49 ) into the kernel Apr 28 13:04:29 mece: there you go Apr 28 13:04:39 DocScrutinizer: musb_hdrc is what drives OTG on omap Apr 28 13:05:25 hrw: musb_hdrc is what OBVIOUSLY NOT drives OTG on omap (as it seems right now) Apr 28 13:05:33 why the crappetyhell can I not install pyside on the device? I have the same gaddamn libqt4 installed as in scratchbox? Apr 28 13:05:36 mece: the trouble is when you start doing thinking how do things like QAbstractKineticScroller *scroller = scrollArea->property("kineticScroller").value(); in python Apr 28 13:05:37 though it's supposed to Apr 28 13:05:53 DocScrutinizer: depends which omap machine we are talking about Apr 28 13:05:55 if you can avoid that, cool Apr 28 13:06:34 well if there are working implemetations on other omap platforms, then we should be able to fix this one, no? Apr 28 13:06:39 mece: no you don't Apr 28 13:06:48 mece: pyside is recompiled for PR1.2 Apr 28 13:07:03 mece: so unless you are saying you've got PR1.2 on your device... Apr 28 13:07:26 seriously. has anyone put together a bot that checks for that string yet? Apr 28 13:07:33 hrw: btw we're not interested in OTG first instance. We want a simple hostmode driver Apr 28 13:08:08 right. Apr 28 13:08:11 DocScrutinizer: n900 has only OTG port. musb_hdrc handle host part Apr 28 13:08:13 OTG is a hell of negotiations and insane VBUS pulsing etc Apr 28 13:08:22 * achipa thinks String is too mundane a term to cover all the horrors of "that" Apr 28 13:08:35 rigth that's the whole problem isn't it? Apr 28 13:08:39 feck. Apr 28 13:08:48 hrw: sorry, don't get it. what's "OTG port"? Apr 28 13:09:14 any way to install the old version? Apr 28 13:09:30 mece: yep. You'll see libqt4-core (>> 4.6.2~gitwhatever) Apr 28 13:09:34 I guess so Apr 28 13:09:37 try with = Apr 28 13:09:53 DocScrutinizer: omap3 has EHCI port and OTG port. first is driven by ehci_hcd, second by musb_hdrc Apr 28 13:09:54 apt-get install pyside-gui=previousversionname Apr 28 13:10:20 DocScrutinizer: musb_hdrc handle switching host/client/none and host part Apr 28 13:10:27 achipa, will do, thanks., Apr 28 13:10:29 hrw: there's basically no such thing like different EHCI and OTG ports Apr 28 13:11:12 hrw: please tell me how it handles a forced switch to host. 'echo host > mode' simply does nuttin Apr 28 13:11:55 achipa is that the whole filename? Apr 28 13:12:18 like apt-get install pyside-qt4=pyside-qt4_0.2.3_1maemo2 Apr 28 13:12:21 DocScrutinizer: short ID pin to ground Apr 28 13:12:36 hrw: that's nonsense, cause that's OTG Apr 28 13:12:38 DocScrutinizer: but n900 does not have Id pin connected Apr 28 13:12:47 that's also incorrect Apr 28 13:12:51 just version Apr 28 13:12:52 apt-get install pyside-qt4=0.2.3-1maemo3 Apr 28 13:13:17 DocScrutinizer: with beagleboard I plug usb client cable and gadgets works. I plug host cable and usbhub gets recognized Apr 28 13:13:43 and with GTA02 I echo host > mode and it switches to hostmode logical Apr 28 13:14:32 hrw: I want to switch to hostmode via sysfs, not use ID pin OTG mode Apr 28 13:16:02 hrw: see http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/musb/musb_core.c#2010 -- does not work :-(( Apr 28 13:16:28 DocScrutinizer: TI drivers suxx, thats known Apr 28 13:16:32 achipa, cheers, it works! Apr 28 13:16:49 that's written in http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/musb/musb_core.c#40 ff Apr 28 13:17:00 mece: (Y) Apr 28 13:17:01 achipa, but one thing is confusing. Shouldn't the package point at the newest? and I chose the newest version, and now it installs..? Apr 28 13:17:28 the newest is 0.3.0 for me Apr 28 13:17:45 (those all link to libqt4 >> 4.6.2) Apr 28 13:18:15 or is that not what you are referring to :) Apr 28 13:18:39 hrw: anyway, it's the driver that sucks and stops us from using hostmode. It's NOT the hardware Apr 28 13:18:49 whoooaa.. my magical super app works :D Apr 28 13:19:22 it did not set background color gradient as it's supposed to though. Apr 28 13:20:16 and scrolling is epically smooth too. Oh well. I'm off. Apr 28 13:20:18 tataa. Apr 28 13:21:14 hrw: and my guess is Nokia crippled that driver intentionally and on purpose, to work around conflicts with USB.org cert, as Nokia wasn't able to comply with the whole set of features mandatory for OTG/embedded_host. So they swapped the AB-receptacle (as still labeled in schematics) by a B-type, and removed all hostmode bits from the driver Apr 28 13:22:00 Is there a published git or something repo for the kernel that you could dig into history with? Apr 28 13:22:05 o/ i made a new wallpaper Apr 28 13:22:29 SpeedEvil: no idea, EE here, not SW-maintenance Apr 28 13:22:44 SpeedEvil: though I'd guess there ought to be Apr 28 13:24:37 Stskeeps: could you try to shed some light on this? Apr 28 13:25:05 which? Apr 28 13:25:07 Stskeeps: I.E. ask inside Nokia what's been the true story about the whole USB-host issue Apr 28 13:25:21 certification, most likely Apr 28 13:25:45 SpeedEvil: are you kidding? no such tree Apr 28 13:25:46 Stskeeps: quite obviously the "hw can't do it" is a fuzzy partial truth at best Apr 28 13:26:22 sure about the connector these days? Apr 28 13:26:56 I'm quite sure the connector is a B-type, which by definition doesn't allow hostmode Apr 28 13:27:13 according to USB.org specs Apr 28 13:27:31 what doesn't mean it would work flawlessly nevertheless Apr 28 13:27:48 would NOT* Apr 28 13:28:08 I.E hostmode doesn't care about the connector Apr 28 13:28:18 USB.org does Apr 28 13:28:32 hostmode wouldn't know it if it was run through clotheshanger wire Apr 28 13:28:50 basically yes ;-D Apr 28 13:31:21 korhojoa: though it's the same with device mode Apr 28 13:31:43 USB-OTG *plus* charging is extremely complex. And USB.org wont give you cert if you fail to comply completely. So I bet Nokia opted to kick the whole OTG bit, and used a B-type connector (easy simple BOM change, even footprint is identical) to put an end to issues with USB.org nagging on Nokia they must comply to this and to that and N900 isn't certifyable Apr 28 13:33:03 bullshit Apr 28 13:33:15 nokia is big enough - they could buy their way out of this Apr 28 13:33:28 :o Apr 28 13:33:31 i have an idea Apr 28 13:33:32 they should look at microsoft/googlers comittee abuse and do the same Apr 28 13:33:41 well, it may have saved them from another 3 months delay of rollout Apr 28 13:34:03 there is a chain of stuff Apr 28 13:34:12 if you don't have a USB compliant phone. Apr 28 13:34:21 Then you can't easily make a USB driver for windows Apr 28 13:34:42 you mustn't sell in China if shit happens Apr 28 13:34:50 As one of the requirements of microsoft is that the USB device is an approved USB device Apr 28 13:34:52 is someone else interested in working on maemo-look.org? :) Apr 28 13:34:55 AIUI Apr 28 13:35:15 USB.org is angry at you, giving you a hard time ever since Apr 28 13:36:23 SpeedEvil: of course. Apr 28 13:36:46 so who's savvy enough to put that friggin kernel driver to work ? Apr 28 13:42:16 DocScrutinizer, 6 minutes passed, looks like no one lol Apr 28 13:42:23 hehe Apr 28 13:43:05 I'm counting on Stskeeps to get some, however unofficial, support from Nokia for that Apr 28 13:44:58 DocScrutinizer: do me a favour and add it to the review thread so i remember it Apr 28 13:45:12 hi. i am wondering, if it's possible to use the nokia n900 with a umts-only sim card. do you have any experience with that? Apr 28 13:45:37 hell I wouldn't mind a driver that's spitting OOOPS when running into a bit that's not yet adapted to N900 idiosyncrasies. Just the one we got now simply does nothing Apr 28 13:46:29 Stskeeps: review thread? the current one with your shootdown ;-D ? Apr 28 13:46:44 Boy Scouts Give Up Entirely, Offer Video Game Badge Apr 28 13:46:53 DocScrutinizer: sure :P Apr 28 13:47:05 k Apr 28 13:47:06 The Tentacled One conquers the boyscout league Apr 28 13:52:51 Stskeeps: very terse, but I hope it suffices Apr 28 13:53:30 ta Apr 28 13:53:43 Stskeeps: and yeah, I know I suck by not delivering the paper I promised :-( Apr 28 13:54:38 DocScrutinizer: driving to denmark tonight, still a bunch of time :) Apr 28 13:56:32 Stskeeps: what? thought your visit at Nokia had ended some week or 2 ago? Apr 28 13:57:51 * DocScrutinizer looks for large trout to slap himself Apr 28 13:58:02 DocScrutinizer: volcano ash Apr 28 14:01:32 Stskeeps: Just posted on your 6 Month Review thread Apr 28 14:03:01 noobmonk3y what did you use to time startup time for healthcheck when doing those tests with/without comments? Apr 28 14:03:17 * Arkenoi_ got awfully sick of people who think cc==gcc, ld==gnu ld, x11 == xorg. it just sucks when your system differs and they do not even expect that writing the software. Apr 28 14:04:33 add sh==bash to that list Apr 28 14:04:43 * mgedmin glares at the Maemo SDK installer scripts Apr 28 14:06:02 ie unix = gnu Apr 28 14:10:11 unix = gnu's not unix - nice Apr 28 14:12:02 hmm Apr 28 14:13:10 'The JooJoo has a nine-second boot-up time and a browser-based operating system. On Fusion Garage's website, the company addresses the issue of an application store — the distribution method favoured by Apple for its iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad — by saying JooJoo "has the largest app store in the world... it's called the internet".' Apr 28 14:13:21 Stskeeps: Nokia now *has* the USBcert batch on their N900 boxes. And they have that friggin B-receptacle. It probably wouldn't hurt if they re-enabled hostmode support in kernel Apr 28 14:13:48 DocScrutinizer: fun is that pr1.1.1 kernel has hostmode enabled Apr 28 14:14:19 hrw: you mean in CONFIG-*? Apr 28 14:14:35 DocScrutinizer, Wouldn't the USB certification get taken away and they would have to stop chucking the logo on the boxes? Apr 28 14:14:56 Termana: nope, for sure not Apr 28 14:15:17 * Arkenoi_ wonders if anyone really cares about logo Apr 28 14:15:35 see above - nokia cares Apr 28 14:16:06 DocScrutinizer: yes Apr 28 14:16:14 probably Nokia is member or contractor or whatever of USB.org Apr 28 14:16:30 hrw: yes, but something seems to miss completely Apr 28 14:17:52 chem|st: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=631597#post631597 Apr 28 14:18:10 chem|st: I guess your same chemist as t.m.o lol Apr 28 14:18:57 hrw: as mentioned before: 2011 musb_mode_store(struct device *dev, struct device_attribute *attr, const char *buf, size_t n), static DEVICE_ATTR(mode, 0644, musb_mode_show, musb_mode_store); 'echo host >mode' --> *nuttin, nada, niente* Apr 28 14:19:12 DocScrutinizer: I know, I did such tests when got n900 Apr 28 14:20:15 frals: 2 methods, one a stop watch, two a command that i can't remember of the top of my head that lcuk pointed me at last week....... Apr 28 14:20:36 hrw: if it wasn't disabled somehow (I'm not clever enough to 'gdb in wetware') you would expect it should throw an error at least Apr 28 14:20:43 noobmonk3y: ok Apr 28 14:21:40 i basically put it in places in my code to measure how long it took to run that command.... measuring startup was a bit hit and miss though Apr 28 14:21:59 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=629943&postcount=49 Apr 28 14:22:06 that is pretty good for startup Apr 28 14:22:14 using it now to do some tweaking Apr 28 14:22:18 * andrewfblack is looking for a new phone to replace the Phone Part of his N900. Apr 28 14:22:22 ahhhhhhhh Apr 28 14:22:32 andrewfblack: paper cups and string - tis an upgrade ;) Apr 28 14:22:38 4742 function calls (4686 primitive calls) in 2.148 CPU seconds Apr 28 14:22:46 noobmonk3y: *.pyc, *.pyo Apr 28 14:22:48 i have an e71 - but i have to admit i prefer the phone on the n900 :P Apr 28 14:23:00 * noobmonk3y turns DocScrutinizer into a pyo Apr 28 14:23:44 * noobmonk3y pulls his n93 out of the drawer.... wow thats dusty! Apr 28 14:23:56 noobmonk3y: I think I'm going to give in and go windows mobile so I can atleast use my N900 as a tablet at work since we don't have cell coverage and wifi only allows windows mobile phones to use it Apr 28 14:24:20 awwwwwwww :( - a guy who works for me has the new HTC - tis a nice looking phone Apr 28 14:24:27 bbl Apr 28 14:24:29 i'd miss the keyboard too much Apr 28 14:24:31 ciao doc Apr 28 14:24:55 frals thats not to slow :P Apr 28 14:24:58 noobmonk3y: I'm considering a Tilt2 instead of the HD2 for the keyboard Apr 28 14:25:10 ~0.5 it is importing gtk :/ Apr 28 14:25:12 frals: what are you talking about? Apr 28 14:25:12 :| Apr 28 14:25:19 * noobmonk3y is gonna go try that on healthcheck Apr 28 14:25:33 just make sure you uncomment whatever gets you into qt mainloop :D Apr 28 14:26:35 frals, need to be root? Apr 28 14:26:46 uh no Apr 28 14:26:56 you need python-profiler package from debian thou Apr 28 14:26:59 'permission denied .profile' Apr 28 14:26:59 :D Apr 28 14:27:03 ah rite Apr 28 14:27:06 oh lol! Apr 28 14:27:08 you need to have write permissions to the dir Apr 28 14:27:17 ahhh so do it on my mydocs version Apr 28 14:27:21 ye Apr 28 14:27:28 or chown the dir as root ;P Apr 28 14:29:36 hmmmm nothing happenned, it just ran healthcheck Apr 28 14:30:06 well you need to make it not run whatever qt's equivalent to gtk.main() is Apr 28 14:30:25 do you have a git repo or smth so i can cehck the source? :P Apr 28 14:30:32 lol ignore me Apr 28 14:30:48 still need to install python-profiler Apr 28 14:31:26 obsolete Apr 28 14:31:33 or missing Apr 28 14:31:35 lol Apr 28 14:32:29 hence you need to get it from debian ;) Apr 28 14:33:02 oh pooo Apr 28 14:33:06 will worry about that another day Apr 28 14:33:21 hehe Apr 28 14:33:30 god domino cookies are delicious Apr 28 14:33:50 noobmonk3y: http://packages.debian.org/lenny/python-profiler Apr 28 14:33:50 :D Apr 28 14:33:57 :| Apr 28 14:34:19 theres a dl link right there! Apr 28 14:34:46 * noobmonk3y is typing it in on the n900 Apr 28 14:34:52 * noobmonk3y will take a little while as i'm fat fingered Apr 28 14:35:16 copy paste? ssh to device? ;P Apr 28 14:35:19 bääääck Apr 28 14:35:20 at work :P Apr 28 14:35:24 wb Mece Apr 28 14:35:29 :) Apr 28 14:36:11 frals - getting server doesnt exist :| - gonna go outside n get some signal! Apr 28 14:37:48 * Noobmonk3y_ slaps frals Apr 28 14:37:55 http://packages.debian.org/lenny/python-profiler Apr 28 14:38:00 yay Apr 28 14:39:37 wow quite a diff running the .pyc instead of the .py Apr 28 14:39:51 Command being timed: "python fmms_gui.py" Apr 28 14:39:51 User time (seconds): 2.05 Apr 28 14:39:58 User time (seconds): 1.75 Apr 28 14:40:02 for the pyc! Apr 28 14:40:04 incombloodypatibale!!! Apr 28 14:40:48 * Noobmonk3y_ farts in lcuk's general direction Apr 28 14:41:13 * Noobmonk3y_ slaps noobmonk3y with a trout...... Apr 28 14:41:26 Noobmonk3y_: http://irc.frals.se/maemo/python-profiler_2.5.2-1_all.deb is what i installed on my devices at least Apr 28 14:42:15 :o Apr 28 14:42:57 incompatible it is saying Apr 28 14:43:20 * noobmonk3y grumbles Apr 28 14:43:40 using HAM or dpkg? Apr 28 14:43:43 ham Apr 28 14:43:49 wget it and dpkg :P Apr 28 14:44:32 upgrade yourself from noobmonk3y to someonwahtcompetentmonk3y Apr 28 14:44:41 -typos ofc Apr 28 14:45:21 lol! Apr 28 14:45:24 * noobmonk3y grins Apr 28 14:45:31 ok, wget done Apr 28 14:45:41 need to be root for dpkg -i Apr 28 14:45:47 gpkg - install? Apr 28 14:45:51 oh just -i Apr 28 14:45:56 dpkg* Apr 28 14:48:30 hello. could ssome kind soul post a link to a fex. python scipt that does jpg2png? Apr 28 14:49:36 someone install netpbm Apr 28 14:49:38 job done Apr 28 14:51:24 imagemagick for the win Apr 28 14:51:36 $ convert image.jpg image.png Apr 28 14:52:06 for Python you can do that with PIL Apr 28 14:52:12 mgedmin, what's that? Apr 28 14:52:19 Python Imaging Library Apr 28 14:52:31 http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/ Apr 28 14:52:59 it would make sense if you were writing an app for converting images; less sense if you just need to convert one or two Apr 28 14:53:32 mgedmin, well I dont want to write a program, I wanted to do wget urltoscript, python script.py input.jpg output.png Apr 28 14:53:50 that is all. i have a jpg, i want a png. Apr 28 14:53:53 in that case imagemagick is quicker and simpler Apr 28 14:54:59 do I have that? Apr 28 14:55:12 if you have linux, most likely yes Apr 28 14:55:22 i have maemo5, duh . Apr 28 14:55:31 then most likely no :) Apr 28 14:55:40 why do you want to do that on your phone? Apr 28 14:56:05 there ought to be online image format conversion sites somewhere... Apr 28 14:56:08 heh, perhaps I should have clarified. Apr 28 14:56:22 ha! imagemagick _is_ available for maemo5 Apr 28 14:56:34 from extras-devel only, though Apr 28 14:56:35 :O surprise Apr 28 14:56:54 python-imaging is in extras, otoh Apr 28 14:56:54 mgedmin, yeah, i'm already installing. Apr 28 14:57:19 mgedmin, devel is where I live ;) Apr 28 14:57:25 * mgedmin too Apr 28 14:57:45 ouff.. 26Mb Apr 28 14:58:08 for reference, Python version (untested): python -c "import Image; Image.open('foo.jpg').save('foo.png')" Apr 28 14:58:18 you'd need to install python-imaging for that to work Apr 28 14:58:47 correction: python -c "from PIL import Image; Image.open(...)" Apr 28 14:59:53 mgedmin, wow! Apr 28 15:00:06 mgedmin, the first one worked... Apr 28 15:00:16 hm Apr 28 15:00:28 maybe Maemo5 PIL packaging differs from Debian Apr 28 15:00:32 awesome. Apr 28 15:00:34 haven't ever used PIL on maemo Apr 28 15:00:54 * Mece is in awe of mgedmin's python powers Apr 28 15:01:06 8 years of daily use will to that to a person Apr 28 15:01:34 besides, I looked it up in the manual ;) Apr 28 15:02:38 Public Image Limited Apr 28 15:08:40 nicknamewastoolong Apr 28 15:08:52 still too long Apr 28 15:09:02 yay! Apr 28 15:09:12 * nickstilltoolong slaps frals with a slimey trout Apr 28 15:09:19 * frals slaps nickstilltoolong around a bit with a large trout Apr 28 15:11:12 andrewfblack: grats Apr 28 15:11:38 chem|st: you to :) Apr 28 15:16:15 andrewfblack: I am just stuck with moving and merging for about as long as we are upgraded... Apr 28 15:16:45 andrewfblack: I should do my laundry... thats less work Apr 28 15:17:01 chem|st: yeah I think we got our self into alot of work Apr 28 15:17:11 andrewfblack: screw us ;) Apr 28 15:17:31 ~blame chem|st volunteering Apr 28 15:17:32 * infobot blames chem|st volunteering (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Apr 28 15:17:52 the and Canada is nice Apr 28 15:22:17 do N900 specific threads will fit in General Section shouldn't they be moved to a N900 Section Apr 28 15:24:26 andrewfblack: depends if they are h/w related they go N900 if software they go Applications Apr 28 15:25:04 chem|st: yeah what I was thinking I just fell that any device specific threads should not be in general really Apr 28 15:25:13 if you cannot decide you may split them or leav it there Apr 28 15:25:27 nope they shouldn't Apr 28 15:25:53 also no Application threads should be in Maemo5 Apr 28 15:27:35 leave an expi date for 1 week and move what you like to or what you know to... I am more than now and then unsure where to move something Apr 28 15:30:09 wtf is it with double /home/home duplicates Apr 28 15:30:48 MohammadAG_: where come Apr 28 15:31:25 chem|st, seen about 3 threads with full /home cause of a duplicate Apr 28 15:31:35 here's one http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=631492&postcount=8 Apr 28 15:32:44 hmm Apr 28 15:32:58 I wonder if MS will demand patent royalties from Nokia for using Linux Apr 28 15:42:12 microlith: lol Apr 28 15:42:26 MohammadAG_: is the problem pinpointed yet Apr 28 15:44:43 i love pushing a new package without updating the actual code Apr 28 15:44:59 just so i can get two releases out and make noobmonkey download them both Apr 28 15:45:02 shame he isnt here atm thou! Apr 28 15:47:18 frals: you may try again later Apr 28 15:47:20 ;) Apr 28 15:52:54 chem|st, no, but people are blaming openjazz Apr 28 15:52:57 never checked it out Apr 28 15:53:10 I wont try! Apr 28 15:53:43 not again doing something silly on purpose (at least not yet) Apr 28 15:55:07 where the f Apr 28 15:55:52 nvm Apr 28 16:29:35 ~curse gconf Apr 28 16:29:37 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, gconf ! Apr 28 16:30:21 what?! Ö.ö Apr 28 16:30:34 that is just mean :( Apr 28 16:30:45 Win XP admin >.< Apr 28 16:33:59 love how gconf_get_all_dirs() returns all subdirs in some random order Apr 28 16:34:40 frals, sorting is expensive Apr 28 16:35:01 yeah Apr 28 16:35:07 makes it a fuckin mess for me thou! Apr 28 16:35:11 heh Apr 28 16:35:12 ... Apr 28 16:35:34 slonopotamus, Apr 28 16:35:49 surprise, fs dir listing isn't sorted either Apr 28 16:35:54 so i need to try to insert my stuff, check the tree and see if it shows up before or after the other apn and then repeat until it gets in the correct psotition Apr 28 16:36:32 :/ Apr 28 16:36:51 sounds like a good way to spend the afternoon \o/ Apr 28 16:36:58 frals, Apr 28 16:37:05 lcuk2: Apr 28 16:37:13 either that or see if the tree has a ->sorted()" attribute Apr 28 16:37:26 most grids lists trees ive used in the past on numerous frameworks do Apr 28 16:37:32 slonopotamus, Apr 28 16:37:33 what? Apr 28 16:37:48 lcuk2: you started doing that Apr 28 16:38:01 lcuk2: well, the connectivity/icd guys were lazy and just used get_all_dirs() and stopped at first match Apr 28 16:38:12 so i need to reproduce that to make sure my apn isnt the first match Apr 28 16:39:22 frals, ahh.. Apr 28 16:39:48 The N900 is the only smart phone Bill Gates doesn't make money off of now, he now makes money off Windows Mobile, iphone, or android crasy Apr 28 16:39:51 meh, how did you do the Ghost-thing in freenode? Apr 28 16:40:12 mikki-ku1: /msg nickserv ghost Apr 28 16:40:13 iirc :P Apr 28 16:40:20 thanks Apr 28 16:41:09 amazing short video showing the dancing around euro airspace as it rebooted: http://vimeo.com/11205494 Apr 28 16:41:12 frals: why do you list all subdirs if you need only one? Apr 28 16:42:14 slonopotamus: its not my fault, its icd whos doing it and i have to work around it Apr 28 16:43:08 lcuk2: saw it when you linked on twitter, pretty cool :) Apr 28 16:43:23 hey all :) Apr 28 16:49:20 burninating the village Apr 28 16:49:33 burninating all the people Apr 28 16:49:48 TROGDOR Apr 28 16:58:34 shouldn't I be able to backup to the eMMC? Apr 28 16:59:00 any1 good in physics here btw? Apr 28 17:00:15 * trogdor burninates dubzii Apr 28 17:00:16 :) Apr 28 17:00:38 aahhhh Apr 28 17:01:40 tnx for reminding me of that awesome vid. got the song in my head again Apr 28 17:06:38 I'm here to help, heh Apr 28 17:14:12 hi all Apr 28 17:14:19 kann jemand deutsch ? Apr 28 17:15:52 Hi. I have a folder with subfolder and subfiles, and would like to copy it to another location using terminal; the same folder name exists in the target location, but I want to overwrite the common files. can anyone tell me how? Apr 28 17:18:49 cp oldfilder/* /path/to/new/folder Apr 28 17:19:22 or cp -r oldfolder/ new_location/ Apr 28 17:19:24 so cp /home/foo/* /tmp/foo/ ? Apr 28 17:19:51 thank you, the -r did the trick Apr 28 17:20:34 another quesion, is /home/opt important? Apr 28 17:21:02 very Apr 28 17:21:36 I don't see why I have a /home/opt and an /opt Apr 28 17:21:56 cause it's symlinked Apr 28 17:22:02 /home/opt -> /opt Apr 28 17:22:07 /home/opt is the actual folder that /opt is linked to Apr 28 17:22:09 -bash-2.05b$ ls -ld opt Apr 28 17:22:10 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Dec 17 04:36 opt -> /home/opt Apr 28 17:22:24 dibbler! Apr 28 17:22:26 sweet Apr 28 17:22:30 umm okay Apr 28 17:22:33 thanks Apr 28 17:22:33 SpeedEvil: ping Apr 28 17:24:00 long story short? because Nokia missed to place rootfs on eMMC Apr 28 17:24:10 so...: Apr 28 17:24:12 ? Apr 28 17:24:12 sausage inna bun? Apr 28 17:24:14 ~optification Apr 28 17:24:15 somebody said optification was a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs Apr 28 17:24:31 * SpeedEvil has been out cutting heads off. Apr 28 17:24:34 (flowers) Apr 28 17:24:36 CutMeOwnThroat: I'll see if I can digest one; how much? Apr 28 17:24:47 SpeedEvil: you found some of the bq24x00 regs are actually sysnodes? Apr 28 17:24:56 22 Apr 28 17:24:59 * GAN900 resists replying to Nathan's inanity in Stskeeps's thread. Apr 28 17:25:00 only $4 and that's cuttin me own throat Apr 28 17:25:09 modprobe bq27x00_battery Apr 28 17:25:14 oooh Apr 28 17:25:19 ffs Apr 28 17:25:40 incredible, there's a module and it's not loaded - MUHAHA Apr 28 17:26:03 ' /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/[cv]* \ Apr 28 17:26:09 how SILLY is THAT? Apr 28 17:26:13 it's not a very great module Apr 28 17:26:36 CutMeOwnThroat: btw, you might interested in this fountain that I found in japan: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hardaker/4160798158/ Apr 28 17:26:38 it just exports raw_shunt_voltage, percent, and voltage, and kelvin Apr 28 17:27:09 (so current_now is really in units of (20/3.57)mA Apr 28 17:27:12 FATAL: Module bq27x00_battery not found. Apr 28 17:27:33 modprobe bq27x00_battery Apr 28 17:27:36 oh Apr 28 17:27:37 hmm Apr 28 17:27:50 It must be in the kernel I installed Apr 28 17:27:57 hehehe Apr 28 17:28:23 * DocScrutinizer wonders what a freaking kernel SpeedEvil is using Apr 28 17:28:36 I wouldn't want rootfs on emmc until they come up with some sensible filesystem Apr 28 17:28:36 'enhanced linux kernel for power users' - in extras devel I think Apr 28 17:28:56 wtf?! Apr 28 17:28:58 ubifs is probably sane Apr 28 17:29:03 t-tan's Apr 28 17:29:10 but with all of the error correcting shizzle ripped out Apr 28 17:29:24 Can you run ubifs on block devices? Apr 28 17:30:10 no Apr 28 17:30:19 (06:29:16 PM) SpeedEvil: but with all of the error correcting shizzle ripped out Apr 28 17:31:19 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/NAND_Testing#SD_Cards - I will point to Apr 28 17:31:29 what's wrong with ext2/3 in eMMC rootfs? Apr 28 17:31:42 A fail after 15Tb of writes - to one zone of the card Apr 28 17:31:59 you're STILL on the flash paranoia topic? O.o :) Apr 28 17:32:02 Also - read the thread in http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org/msg170028.html - to get an idea Apr 28 17:32:29 Basically - mmc/sd does probably not wear level over the whole device - but blocks of - say - 1024 eraseblocks Apr 28 17:32:39 tbh that seems to be no much difference to ubifs on NAND Apr 28 17:32:46 except NAND is much smaller Apr 28 17:32:55 yes Apr 28 17:33:02 I don't care about wear&tear really Apr 28 17:33:19 performance isn't noticably bad. Apr 28 17:33:20 same here Apr 28 17:33:27 at least - I've never noticed an issue. Apr 28 17:33:27 But I'd like a fs that avoids write amplification, because it's like hitting a rock performance-wise Apr 28 17:33:29 Also. Apr 28 17:33:40 Try downloading something with gpodder, it's very noticeable Apr 28 17:33:56 write amplification? Apr 28 17:33:57 from just having swap and media on same device Apr 28 17:34:07 performance in general :) Apr 28 17:34:46 Trizt: hey did you get an updated set of strings? :) Apr 28 17:36:32 so it's like 5 megabyte/s or something write performance ideally, and something like 80kbyte/s at worst.. it's like hitting a brick wall :) Apr 28 17:37:16 why? Apr 28 17:37:40 timeless_mbp; yes, I installed the update and the sting is still as it was before (have also rebooted) Apr 28 17:37:57 hrm Apr 28 17:38:19 my n900 now has access to my corporate intranet, lemme go fishing Apr 28 17:38:23 why what? Apr 28 17:38:28 ShadowJK: you know address (I2C) of 24150 off top of your head? Apr 28 17:38:34 timeless_mbp; sure Apr 28 17:38:49 ShadowJK: why is it that bad? Apr 28 17:38:50 re Apr 28 17:39:03 ShadowJK: and why on eMMC but not on NAND? Apr 28 17:40:34 DocScrutinizer, because the emmc is managed by the card itself, and it's stupid and optimized for sequential writes. On NAND you have raw access to the underlying flash, so you can manage it more intelligently, do partial writes and erase blocks before they're used (like TRIM on SSDs).. Apr 28 17:41:12 aah k Apr 28 17:41:39 VDVsx, eBook reader sounds a bit . . . optimistic. ;) Apr 28 17:41:43 The underlying block size is something like 256kilobytes.. When you write a 4K block somewhere, and then write another block elsewhere, the card itself reads 256k, modifies 4k of that, erases a block, writes the 256k of data to the new block Apr 28 17:42:06 yup Apr 28 17:42:17 I don't remember the 24150 address :/ Apr 28 17:42:17 ARGH Apr 28 17:42:20 Cricket is so annoying Apr 28 17:42:26 on eMMC it's worse thoufg not slower Apr 28 17:42:35 that was emmc :) Apr 28 17:42:36 (addr) np Apr 28 17:42:57 move / to the eMMC, and swap to the openNAND (if that's even possible), and you shouldn't notice any slowdowns :) Apr 28 17:43:11 thought eMMC had much larger blocks Apr 28 17:43:14 (theoretically, I never tried it) Apr 28 17:43:22 on nand you can manage it yourself. The only operation which has to be done in 256k blocks is the erase operation, you can leave parts of it unwritten and write it later with no penalty Apr 28 17:43:31 * frals slaps lcuk2 around a bit with a large trout Apr 28 17:44:13 (06:34:11 PM) SpeedEvil: tou mean where the mmc has to do read-modify-write cycles? Apr 28 17:44:13 (06:34:11 PM) SpeedEvil: oh Apr 28 17:44:14 (06:34:24 PM) SpeedEvil: well - I'd say actually that's more the fault of the swap algo Apr 28 17:44:14 (06:34:35 PM) SpeedEvil: swap _really_ blows in many ways on flash Apr 28 17:44:14 (06:34:58 PM) SpeedEvil: It needs to be taught to write in one linear sweep basically. Apr 28 17:44:14 (06:35:55 PM) SpeedEvil: As even reading and rewriting at a different place half of the blocks under a linear sweep is cheaper than single block writes Apr 28 17:44:15 meh Apr 28 17:44:25 ShadowJK: yes, that's all basically known here Apr 28 17:44:34 * SpeedEvil ponders how hard a shit proof-of-concept algorithm pretending to be nbd would be. Apr 28 17:45:00 DocScrutinizer, sure, but we still have no solutions for it :) Apr 28 17:46:13 GeneralAntilles, thats normal in GSoC :D, as far we get the basic functionalities done, I'll be happy ;) Apr 28 17:46:15 ShadowJK: the elementary problem is: except for swap all you frequently write to has to move to eMMC anyway, for mere avail size reasons Apr 28 17:46:48 I'd actually want ~ on a different device too Apr 28 17:46:55 for the database writes Apr 28 17:47:11 Big huge drive for software and media, one for ~ and one for swap Apr 28 17:47:20 hello Apr 28 17:47:24 I'd want tmp and var on eMMC Apr 28 17:47:42 Or I guess someone could hire Jörn Engel so they could whip him into finishing logfs :P Apr 28 17:47:45 most maemo apps are already using the emmc for larger tmp stuff Apr 28 17:47:51 app mgr, ... Apr 28 17:47:57 hehe Apr 28 17:48:00 DocScrutinizer, move them :) Apr 28 17:48:24 MohammadAG_: nah, igniting my bq24150 now Apr 28 17:48:34 (whatever that is :) ) Apr 28 17:48:50 VBUS booster chip (also bat charge) Apr 28 17:49:03 in debian having a lot repositories of diferent stage can cause a lot of problems ( example: haven testing repositories in stable install ) and i saw in mamemo for almost all "Good" tools/app you need add some testing or devel repo , this can't cause the same damage/problems that cause in debian ? Apr 28 17:49:04 you using i2cget or found a kernel driver? Apr 28 17:49:14 the little black box bme is hiding away from us Apr 28 17:49:24 sorry for the off-topic Apr 28 17:49:28 I2C* Apr 28 17:50:06 first I'll simply patch your script or sth like that, to read out Apr 28 17:50:22 next step - tweak it a little Apr 28 17:50:59 Eh, I started from scratch ;) Apr 28 17:51:05 but then the crashy maemo nano ate my script :-( Apr 28 17:51:10 before I saved :-/ Apr 28 17:51:14 * ShadowJK should install emacs Apr 28 17:51:20 though I guess my c&p foo might suffice to clone a 27x00 driver for a generic 24150 driver Apr 28 17:52:19 probably I'll fail on compiling it, though Apr 28 17:52:20 :-P Apr 28 18:01:12 * frals slaps w00t_ around a bit with a large trout Apr 28 18:01:15 thanks! Apr 28 18:01:16 ow. Apr 28 18:01:20 :P Apr 28 18:05:30 ShadowJK: >>The slave address byte is the first byte recaddress bits are factory preset to ‘1101011’. Apr 28 18:14:44 any more news on when an update is coming out with 1.2? Apr 28 18:16:19 No, Nokia does not announce in advance Apr 28 18:16:30 most recent speculation (AFAIK) is end of april Apr 28 18:17:49 i heard november! Apr 28 18:18:49 i vote that pr1.2 is released yesterday Apr 28 18:20:20 * lcuk2 also votes for the same too :D Apr 28 18:20:40 ShadowJK: Nokia-N900-02-8:/home/user/i2c# ./i2cget -y 2 0x6b 0x03 -> 0x4b == bq24150 Rev1.1 Apr 28 18:20:50 jfc Apr 28 18:21:15 * lirakis is tiring of nokia Apr 28 18:22:40 You guys keep talking about it, it just keeps getting pushed back. Apr 28 18:22:42 although it is going to be released in hongkong tomorrow. i dont think nokia is quick enough to rlease PR1.2 tomorrow Apr 28 18:22:53 trumee, why not? Apr 28 18:23:03 trumee, we don't know what's going on behind the NDAs. Apr 28 18:23:23 Heck, we usually know when a release has hit before most of Maemo Devices. Apr 28 18:23:34 There's no reason why it couldn't be tomorrow morning. Apr 28 18:23:45 what NDAs? Apr 28 18:23:53 non-disclosure-agreements Apr 28 18:23:54 trumee; you speculate on Friday? Apr 28 18:24:07 schizophrenia on paper Apr 28 18:24:16 and it's true, people here tend to know when things are released hours or days before i find out Apr 28 18:24:34 Trizt: next week probably Apr 28 18:25:16 any idea what day of the week last firmware was released Apr 28 18:25:34 sounds like betting Apr 28 18:26:10 think it was tuesdat, but could be wrong, but as far as I remember it's been different week days each time Apr 28 18:26:11 trumee, the last updates were on different weekdays. that won't help you :) Apr 28 18:26:27 qt unified sdk relies on pr1.2, and it was released on tuesday Apr 28 18:26:27 iirc one of the updates was before a long weekend iirc :) Apr 28 18:26:42 yeah, my right brain knows days before my left half, what the left half is going to think the right half is supposed to know :-P Apr 28 18:26:55 ShadowJK: yep Apr 28 18:26:55 pr1.2 released? Apr 28 18:27:02 NNOOOOOOOOOOO Apr 28 18:27:11 2012 Apr 28 18:27:16 jacekowski: PR 1.2 OUT?!?!?! Apr 28 18:27:16 2022 Apr 28 18:27:28 2222 Apr 28 18:27:36 NEVER Apr 28 18:27:41 ShadowJK: interesting. it is a long weekend this week in UK Apr 28 18:27:41 I *promise* I'll change chan topic as soon as pr1.2 is available Apr 28 18:27:46 please stop to ask Apr 28 18:27:56 DocScrutinizer: y? you have hot temper? Apr 28 18:28:11 DocScrutinizer; so 1.2 is released? ;) Apr 28 18:28:15 Scelt, it's fucking annoying when people ask it every minute Apr 28 18:28:16 DocScrutinizer: better to check here than tmo :) Apr 28 18:28:39 ShadowJK: relax Apr 28 18:28:41 lol Apr 28 18:28:46 So, anyone wanna create a fake PR 1.2 that bricks devices? :D Apr 28 18:28:48 ShadowJK: ...and do it! everybody just do it! Apr 28 18:28:50 i wonder if you be able to search for a freakin email Apr 28 18:28:52 One you could link to everytime someone asks about 1.2 Apr 28 18:28:52 ... so lame Apr 28 18:29:02 I tend to get a notification on my phone when it's released Apr 28 18:29:11 WHAT PR1.2 IS OUT?! I HAVE NO NOTIFICATION?! Apr 28 18:29:27 omg what wheres pr1.2 Apr 28 18:29:29 :P Apr 28 18:29:33 Trizt: but you sometimes have to wair hours before you get notified. Apr 28 18:29:36 is it possible to create an image of a virgin device and flash it using flasher Apr 28 18:30:13 no if you don't want go to prison ;) Apr 28 18:30:15 some HK person could create an image of the virgin phone Apr 28 18:30:20 SpeedEvil; could be so, but you can run a update check every 5 minutes if it's so important to get it fast :P Apr 28 18:30:27 or maybe ... you will be able to delete an email from the popup ... instead of having to view it.... go back to inbox... and delete i there Apr 28 18:30:29 I'm starting to get angry Apr 28 18:31:41 * Trizt wish he could be in HK Apr 28 18:32:37 does maemo team operate from finland? Apr 28 18:33:27 trumee, Maemo Devices has locations in several countries Apr 28 18:33:35 trumee, and lots of contractors, besides. Apr 28 18:33:46 DocScrutinizer, we wouldn't like you when you're angry? Apr 28 18:34:21 GeneralAntilles: ah i see. so release could happen any time of the day? Apr 28 18:34:29 probably you never liked me as I'm an always angry old fart Apr 28 18:34:33 sigh Apr 28 18:34:36 trumee, releases generally happen in the early morning Finnish time. Apr 28 18:34:42 trumee, and then progress around the globe. Apr 28 18:34:47 For stupid, inane, reasons. Apr 28 18:36:59 And then several weeks later, in the UK. Apr 28 18:36:59 well, a good way to stop if something bad happens Apr 28 18:37:02 hmm. 2 hours ahead of UK. that is good. Apr 28 18:37:45 SpeedEvil: flashing global firmware on UK devices voids warranty? Apr 28 18:38:15 dunno Apr 28 18:38:20 don't think so. Apr 28 18:38:36 is there more than one version? Apr 28 18:39:01 there are ~10 :) Apr 28 18:39:11 SpeedEvil: it is not like changing the device id. its only software change, so should be ok. Apr 28 18:39:36 anyway, i really did check Apr 28 18:39:38 ain't that a bit silly? wouldn't it just be simpler with one? Apr 28 18:39:49 the difference for the uk firmware is for an incredibly pointless edge case Apr 28 18:40:19 timeless_mbp: what is that? Apr 28 18:41:00 trumee: it has something to do with deciding what numbers are emergency numbers Apr 28 18:41:13 but it doesn't really matter if you have a uk sim inserted Apr 28 18:41:28 ShadowJK: heh, that's fun actually to fiddle with 24150 Apr 28 18:41:31 timeless_mbp: what a waste! Apr 28 18:41:46 trumee: well, it's useful for ensuring that we're able to create variants Apr 28 18:41:53 but yes, it's incredibly stupid otherwise Apr 28 18:42:01 and rather unfortunate that we have customers who wait for it Apr 28 18:42:39 timeless_mbp: so flashing global firmware wont ring back to nokia? Apr 28 18:42:54 you have customers with custom versions? Apr 28 18:43:09 Trizt: yes Apr 28 18:43:17 at least, i believe so Apr 28 18:43:33 well for some definition of 'custom\ Apr 28 18:43:37 timeless_mbp: people were changing n95 device id to unbrand and that used to alert nokia. guess flasher doesnt dothat. Apr 28 18:43:39 UK vodafone, no? Apr 28 18:43:40 I guess my operator has one.... they seem to have some strange things on every phone they sell Apr 28 18:43:47 DocScrutinizer: right Apr 28 18:55:43 so any idea if sip/skype video calling is supported? Apr 28 18:55:51 in pr1.2 Apr 28 18:56:11 No, not supported afaik Apr 28 18:56:46 MohammadAG_: what was the changelog about videocalling then? Apr 28 18:56:51 just google ?? Apr 28 18:56:58 aka google video ? Apr 28 18:57:06 trumee, Gtalk Apr 28 18:57:26 MohammadAG_: awww! Apr 28 18:58:10 Vote for skype not connecting through a proxy bug; https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10062 - I hope it's not a WONTFIX for maemo5 :( Apr 28 18:58:11 Bug 10062: Skype doesn't use network connection proxy settings Apr 28 18:58:28 * MohammadAG_ marks as WONFIX Apr 28 18:58:30 jk :P Apr 28 18:58:30 sip support is pathetic in N900 Apr 28 18:58:38 yeah Apr 28 18:58:39 android is better for sip Apr 28 18:58:56 trumee, wha??? Apr 28 18:59:00 boot android when you want to sip ;) Apr 28 18:59:16 funny nokia developed their own sip stack but left out features Apr 28 18:59:23 my G1 did not do sip integration half as well as N900 Apr 28 18:59:25 now andre shows up and tells me: management decided that this is a WONTFIX for Maemo5, but this will be addressed in Meego, yay Apr 28 18:59:38 android required a seperate sip client Apr 28 18:59:53 i need MWI support Apr 28 19:00:13 chadi: you're welcome :-P Apr 28 19:00:22 lmfao Apr 28 19:00:31 the sofia sip library supports it but nokia devs are too lazy to build it into n900 Apr 28 19:00:32 andre__ good day, sir! Apr 28 19:00:36 chadi, in which ticket did I do so before? :) Apr 28 19:00:38 question: how do i disable totally ALL call functionality from my n900 - sometimes i want to give jake the phone and he keeps calling people Apr 28 19:00:41 heja chadi :) Apr 28 19:01:27 lcuk: emm, remove sim? Apr 28 19:01:31 andre__ : https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9855 Apr 28 19:01:32 Bug 9855: Cannot delete fields (e.g. phone numbers) added by a Skype account Apr 28 19:01:55 * ioeee hi @all o/ Apr 28 19:01:58 lcuk, manually install PR1.2 packages, phone will segfault with "Internal error" Apr 28 19:02:00 is the android on n900 project dead ?? Apr 28 19:02:03 android used a third party sip library and have MWI support Apr 28 19:02:06 there was ever one? Apr 28 19:02:08 even 911 won't work Apr 28 19:02:26 lcuk; tried "Cellular Modem Control Buttons"? Apr 28 19:02:38 andre__ : if skype does all the work for you, why delay the fixes for Meego? I don't understand this management decision. Apr 28 19:02:53 Nokia have always sucked at MWI support. was crap in N95 even Apr 28 19:03:17 MohammadAG_, i have pr1.2.. Apr 28 19:03:27 Trizt, mm ? Apr 28 19:03:50 chadi, this is a Contacts issue. It is not a Skype issue. Apr 28 19:04:14 jacekowski, removing sim does not help when i just want to give it him for a few minutes to play with Apr 28 19:04:15 should make the n900 to loose it's ability to call Apr 28 19:04:15 lcuk, manually install PR1.1.1 packages then Apr 28 19:04:40 chadi, and "delaying the fixes for MeeGo" implies that code has been written yet. why do you assume that? Apr 28 19:04:46 andre__: Oh, thanks for pointing that out. But anyway, why not fix it in Maemo5 since you are planning to fix it anyway :( Apr 28 19:04:56 MohammadAG_, I think that's normal since you don't have access to all the packages that are needed Apr 28 19:05:29 chadi: how different are the codebases between Maemo5 calendar and Maemo6 calendar, and how much effort does it take to apply a fix to both codebases? Apr 28 19:05:43 (I don't know myself. But that's my guess.) Apr 28 19:06:07 andre__: I'd be happy to fix that myself :) Apr 28 19:06:19 VDVsx, I only installed some packages to prove the keyboard doesn't go into portrait mode Apr 28 19:06:30 and to see the portrait browser :) Apr 28 19:06:39 VDVsx, when's the next testing marathon? Apr 28 19:07:22 chadi, maemo calendar is closed source Apr 28 19:07:38 yay Apr 28 19:08:51 andre__, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9977 Apr 28 19:08:52 Bug 9977: Hardware T&K lock switch must be used twice to unlock device when keyboard open Apr 28 19:09:05 that's normal behavior afaik Apr 28 19:09:41 andre__: sorry if i was being offensive Apr 28 19:09:52 since the screen doesn't actually get locked when the keyboard is open Apr 28 19:09:53 chadi, no, you weren't :) Apr 28 19:09:59 touch the screen and it would work Apr 28 19:17:46 Hi Apr 28 19:18:15 hey johnsq Apr 28 19:35:13 anyone know how to change ESN on a Samsung phone and if doing so will let me activate the new ESN? Apr 28 19:40:58 What websites u guys using for an accurate speed test from the microB browser? Apr 28 19:41:33 dont like that flash based speedtest.net Apr 28 19:41:46 Im using mobilespeedtest.com, but it seems like speedtest.net gives me slower results Apr 28 19:42:00 yeah Im guessing cuz of flash Apr 28 19:42:59 you mean a bandwidth test? Apr 28 19:43:09 Im getting 2-3 mbits from mobile, but only 1 mbit from speedtest Apr 28 19:43:09 The app 'speedy' works well for me Apr 28 19:43:27 or wgetting the kernel from kernel.org Apr 28 19:44:25 though speedy does only measure downspeed Apr 28 19:44:53