**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 02 02:59:56 2010
May 02 03:11:34 <Macer> easydeb is a good start but the ui totally sucks :)
May 02 03:11:46 <Macer> heh. you can tell they tried to give it more of a mobile look to it but it doesn't work that well.
May 02 03:11:57 <Macer> but having openoffice on the n900 is awesome
May 02 03:34:18 <njsf_> re
May 02 04:11:11 * GAN900 laughs maniacally.
May 02 04:11:26 <GAN900> "MeeGo Devics and MeeGo operations"
May 02 04:11:28 <GAN900> Love it.
May 02 04:18:18 <njsf_> GAN900: What are you talking about?
May 02 04:34:53 <opdf2> is there a more thorough check of eMMC than fsck?
May 02 04:35:07 <opdf2> or is it all good if it doesnt say anything about errors
May 02 04:43:03 <GAN900> njsf_, Ari's current position(s)
May 02 04:43:15 <GAN900> Maemo Devices is MeeGo Devices now
May 02 04:43:42 <GAN900> but MeeGo operations is a separate thing.
May 02 04:43:44 <njsf_> Ari care to show a link ? I must admit I do not watch Ari
May 02 04:44:00 <GAN900> Ari Jaaksi. . . .
May 02 04:44:18 <GAN900> jaaksi.blogspot.com
May 02 04:45:38 <njsf_> tnx
May 02 04:50:33 <njsf_> GAN900: you were talking about his roles I assume
May 02 04:51:12 <njsf_> I don't even understand what MeeGo operations would be.... Maybe that means he is the one to blame  if their hosting goes down :D
May 02 04:52:47 <opdf2> what is the reason why bridge_work-que is making my cpu go crazy?
May 02 04:53:17 <opdf2> nm i guess it will be fixed in 1.2
May 02 04:53:43 <njsf_> opdf2: I am sick of waiting for 1.2
May 02 04:53:47 <opdf2> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9084
May 02 04:53:48 <povbot> Bug 9084: Media Player [bridge_work-que] battery drain
May 02 04:57:39 <GAN900> njsf_, the funny part is that MeeGo-proper and MeeGo-Harmattan are two completely different things, but both called MeeGo
May 02 04:57:55 <GAN900> Thus the two different divisions
May 02 04:58:01 <GAN900> and the hilarity.
May 02 04:58:10 <Mace_N900> hello
May 02 04:59:28 <Macer> njsf_: haha
May 02 04:59:41 <njsf_> GAN900: to be honest I think I don't think I have much more patience for this Nokia stewardship, and no reason to believe Intel+Nokia will be any better
May 02 04:59:42 <Macer> where is the changelog to 1.2?
May 02 04:59:45 <Macer> i'd love to see what it adds
May 02 05:00:23 <Macer> at the very least i hope it adds bt keyboard support :)
May 02 05:00:28 <GAN900> njsf_, well, the fact that Intel and Nokia have to work together gives us a better base.
May 02 05:00:51 <Macer> i think intel is only lending its name just so nokia can sell more intel based netbooks
May 02 05:00:53 <njsf_> The platform is more open than the iPhone or Android, but not open enough to justify my putting up with the shortcomings. Specially when core parts of it are not open source, or replaceable
May 02 05:00:56 <Macer> but that's just me :)
May 02 05:01:44 <Macer> i was pretty amped up when nokia was going to release a netbook then found out it is just the same old type of intel based netbook with the nokia name and was like big deal
May 02 05:02:12 <njsf_> Macer: the Nokia netbook is ok for specs/battery life but not earth shattering no
May 02 05:02:25 <Macer> they probably apppleized it too where it is just the same old x86 hardware with a name so that justifies a +$200 than anything else price tag
May 02 05:02:43 <Macer> njsf_: it's just a netbook :) an aspire1 would make a better choice
May 02 05:03:07 <njsf_> well it does have 3G modem built in
May 02 05:03:43 <Macer> and you can get that from your provider for free if you get a 3G plan ;)
May 02 05:04:04 <Macer> a 3G modem doesn't justify a $600 price tag on the same old stuff
May 02 05:04:18 <Macer> now if it were an arm based netbook that lasted 48 hours then it would be worth it
May 02 05:04:25 <Macer> which is kind of what i was expecting
May 02 05:04:42 <Macer> and now they "teamed up with intel" to create another linux distro? :) cmon
May 02 05:04:47 <Macer> it's marketing
May 02 05:04:59 <njsf_> Macer: but then they could not ship Win7 on it ;)
May 02 05:05:06 <Macer> nothing more.. i bet they have spent more money coming up with the name meego ;)
May 02 05:05:30 <njsf_> I really don't care about netbooks
May 02 05:05:31 <Macer> they'll toss out a kernel and maybe a few drivers and allow the opensource minions to produce something worthwhile
May 02 05:05:42 <njsf_> If I want a keyboard, I'll take a laptop
May 02 05:05:52 <Macer> naw. i like my aspire1
May 02 05:05:59 <njsf_> what I want is a capable internet capable phone at all times
May 02 05:06:15 <Macer> it isn't that bad at all for what it is.. but it costs $250.. a nokia netbook is $600
May 02 05:06:21 <Macer> for a 3G modem? :)
May 02 05:06:29 <njsf_> the N900 is not fulfilling that and I do not see it do it anytime soon
May 02 05:06:40 <Macer> oh i love the n900 :)
May 02 05:06:51 <njsf_> I am sick of the UI delays
May 02 05:06:57 <Macer> i hate the fact they decided that "it's not really a phone" type of thing was the best route
May 02 05:06:57 <njsf_> and audio stuttering
May 02 05:07:13 <Macer> where decisions like a non-portrait desktop came into effect
May 02 05:07:20 <Macer> so it will stay niche :)
May 02 05:07:27 <njsf_> it stutters when just dimming the screen... that is ridiculous
May 02 05:07:31 <Macer> just like n8x0s were
May 02 05:07:42 <Macer> hm. i honestly haven't had any stuttering problems
May 02 05:07:52 <Macer> and i've played quite a bit of audio on it
May 02 05:08:02 <njsf_> well the N8x0 were not 500 bucks
May 02 05:08:11 <njsf_> I have plenty of audio issues
May 02 05:08:17 <njsf_> stuttering when dimming
May 02 05:08:17 <Macer> hm
May 02 05:08:23 <Macer> how much were n810s when they first came out?
May 02 05:08:31 <Macer> i'm pretty sure they were around 350-400
May 02 05:08:32 <njsf_> stuttering for the 1st min of playing an mp3
May 02 05:08:57 <Macer> it must be those premium 3G modems they use
May 02 05:08:59 <Macer> haha
May 02 05:09:07 <njsf_> all the losing of preferences on the telepathy plugins
May 02 05:09:26 <Macer> they must be smelted with japenese samurai copper and hand made for ultimate reception :)
May 02 05:09:39 <njsf_> haphazardly which means that you never know when it will actually connect or not to IM
May 02 05:09:44 <Macer> losing preferences on the telepathy plugins?
May 02 05:10:01 <Macer> compared to the android IM stuff.. telepathy is great
May 02 05:10:09 <Macer> i couldn't find a single good android jabber client for my zimbra server
May 02 05:10:17 <njsf_> the ridiculous 60-120s delay to open a conversations window when you have had more than one conversation with the other person
May 02 05:10:30 <Macer> dude
May 02 05:10:33 <Macer> i think you have a lemon
May 02 05:10:34 <Macer> haha
May 02 05:10:41 <Macer> did you buy it from tigerdirect? :)
May 02 05:11:09 <njsf_> F. U dude. I am talking serious here
May 02 05:15:24 <mbuf> from where can I get scratchbox2 sources?
May 02 05:16:06 <njsf> I think the channel topic is very "open minded" :P "NO PR1.2 YET, askers will get kicked" ???!!!!
May 02 05:16:32 <njsf> I think my N900 will find its place on ebay. I am done
May 02 05:17:38 <auenf> err, sell your device cause a software update hasnt arrived? (it isnt even 'late' either)
May 02 05:20:35 <auenf> maybe i'll trade my 5110 for their n900
May 02 05:21:05 <auenf> then they can complain about software updates that are only available by visiting the nokia repair centre
May 02 05:24:37 <Surfa> :D
May 02 05:24:48 <Surfa> ebay.. how sad is that
May 02 06:03:00 <RST38h> AT&T Begs For Extrajudicial Copyright Police
May 02 07:20:49 <trumee> tmo has gone crazy with the unofficial pr1.2
May 02 07:28:45 <mirsal> hey :)
May 02 07:31:30 <RST38h> No wonder
May 02 07:33:55 <Termana> tmo was crazy PRIOR to that thread. :P
May 02 07:34:01 <Chiku> trumee, unofficial ?
May 02 07:34:42 <RST38h> wazd moo
May 02 07:35:58 <wazd> RST38h: heya :)
May 02 07:36:09 <wazd> RST38h: PR 1.2 is out? what should I press? :)
May 02 07:37:09 <RST38h> wazd: Looks like someone has leaked the chinese rom
May 02 07:37:18 <Termana> wazd, the only screenshots that were provided didn't even show the About phone screen
May 02 07:37:23 <RST38h> wazd: with expectable drama ensuing
May 02 07:37:42 <wazd> RST38h: yeah, cause I was seriously told that PR 1.2 is not finished yet and they've decided to tweak it for 2 more weeks or so
May 02 07:37:56 <Termana> No one "trusted" has tested it. I'd be weary and even when someone trusted tests it - I'd still be weary
May 02 07:38:21 * RST38h sadly notes that NOTHING like that would even take place if Maemo Devices had proper, modern update policies
May 02 07:38:48 <RST38h> With system packages betas going into -devel for interested people to try
May 02 07:39:04 <Chiku> if they want better beta stage, just released beta version for community
May 02 07:39:18 <wazd> RST38h: btw, should ovi suite be copatible with n900? cause mine isn't
May 02 07:39:21 <RST38h> wazd: Well there are different internal versions of this :)
May 02 07:39:34 <wazd> RST38h: they alll suck :)
May 02 07:39:35 <RST38h> wazd: I am not touch Ovi Suite with any of my appendages
May 02 07:39:42 <RST38h> touching
May 02 07:39:53 <wazd> RST38h: suck battery :)
May 02 07:40:50 <RST38h> "Angels we have heeeard on high ... Tell us GO OUT AND BUY!"
May 02 07:42:44 <wazd> RST38h: btw, are there any legal problems to not include Ti roms within Ati85? :)
May 02 07:43:46 <RST38h> wazd: to include or NOT to include?
May 02 07:45:02 * RST38h listens to Tom Lehrer
May 02 07:46:18 <microlith> We'll all go together when we go~
May 02 07:47:14 <RST38h> microlith: Nah, the quote of the day is "But they still go for peanuts when coated with cyanide"
May 02 07:47:30 <microlith> ooh, killing pigeons
May 02 07:48:01 <RST38h> ...and it's spring on tmo, indeed
May 02 07:48:50 <microlith> 'tis
May 02 07:49:19 * microlith watches more people install an RC on their devices
May 02 07:52:31 <wazd> RST38h: meh, to include ofcourse, sorry :)
May 02 07:55:16 <mbuf> at http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/sbox2 it says scratchbox2 is available in gitorious, but, there are only debian/ patches and not sources at http://gitorious.org/mer/scratchbox-fake; where can I find scratchbox2 sources?
May 02 08:01:10 <arachnist> mbuf: in /dev/urandom. stream data from /dev/urandom for a long enough time and you're sure to find it! ;)
May 02 08:03:27 <mbuf> arachnist: how long is long? :)
May 02 08:08:11 * Jaffa awakes to find torrents and pandimonium on tmo
May 02 08:08:24 <microlith> The lemmings are afoot
May 02 08:09:10 <arachnist> http://www.pokeruniversity.org/images/lemmings1.jpg
May 02 08:11:12 <trumee> this might spur nokia to release the official version :)
May 02 08:13:36 <dottedmag> trumee: why? This leak is nice beta testing in field and no legal problems with bricked devices :)
May 02 08:14:06 * dottedmag </cynicism>
May 02 08:18:09 <Jaffa> dottedmag: Except if it is an RC there could be a good reason why _this build_ hasn't been released.
May 02 08:18:27 <Jaffa> dottedmag: There might not be a good (technical) reason, tho'
May 02 08:22:18 <trumee> Jaffa: so does HK version use RC as well?
May 02 08:23:08 <wazd> I wonder why people need to overclock n900
May 02 08:23:10 <Jaffa> trumee: Presumably not. Was just about to see if the version numbers matched
May 02 08:23:21 <wazd> it's really fast almost everywhere I go
May 02 08:23:59 <wazd> RST38h: I checked out iPhone theme btw, it sucks :)
May 02 08:24:06 <Chiku> did you try fennec ? fast enough?
May 02 08:24:26 <Chiku> what about falsh
May 02 08:24:29 <Chiku> falsh
May 02 08:24:34 <Chiku> flash
May 02 08:24:43 <trumee> so it is possible that there are RCs closer to final build than this one?
May 02 08:25:08 <wazd>  Chiku: why the hell would you need fenenc, when you have such an awesome built-in browser?
May 02 08:25:25 <wazd> Chiku: it's the best mobile browser hands down
May 02 08:26:03 <trumee> wazd: are desktop firefox plugins supported by microB or do they need porting?
May 02 08:26:26 <Chiku> borwser right now is worse with previous page goes though historic
May 02 08:26:51 <wazd> trumee: well, I haven't checked that deep, but it definitely supports greasemonkey :)
May 02 08:28:09 <Chiku> does weave works on microB, fennec ?
May 02 08:29:07 <Chiku> zimbra is soi slow
May 02 08:29:50 <Chiku> if overclock could do browser decent speed it would be good
May 02 08:30:14 <Jaffa> trumee: Theoretically, although the versions seems to match. Although I don't get how the version can be fixed for things like bugzilla but then the firmware still being tested & tweaked.
May 02 08:30:33 <Jaffa> Version number policies are a hard problem, IME, though
May 02 08:40:51 <wazd> seriously, can anybody tell me if I am the only one with Ovi store login shut down?
May 02 08:41:03 <wazd> n900 ovi
May 02 08:44:28 <Chiku> trumee, unofficial ? <-- do you mean about the the chineses PR1.2 posted on talk.maemo.org ?
May 02 08:44:47 <Chiku> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=637190
May 02 08:44:56 <trumee> Chiku: yes
May 02 08:48:52 <lardman|home> hmm, 522 people looking at a single TMO thread
May 02 08:48:54 <lardman|home> interesting
May 02 08:49:10 * timoph sees people going nuts about month old unstable internal release
May 02 08:49:49 <lardman|home> well, still newer than what we have
May 02 08:50:00 <TomaszD> people are claiming video calls works for skype which I find very, very unlikely
May 02 08:50:34 <TomaszD> for once I wish I was wrong
May 02 08:51:02 <lardman|home> I heard rumours that video calling would be supported eventually
May 02 08:51:16 <trumee> TomaszD: i thought the claim was it does Not work for skype but only gtalk in that thread
May 02 08:51:17 <TomaszD> it works for google talk
May 02 08:51:27 <lardman|home> ah that was probably it
May 02 08:51:56 <trumee> i would like skype video since fring supports that
May 02 08:52:34 <trumee> also, i tried a gtalk voice call to fring E71 and it did not work
May 02 08:53:40 <trumee> but nokia devs dont have skype code i guess
May 02 08:54:08 <trumee> skype themselves need to enable video support
May 02 08:54:21 <trumee> wonder how fring does it.
May 02 08:54:29 <TomaszD> skype is implemented by way of a closed-source telepathy plugin
May 02 08:54:45 <TomaszD> and I guess you're right
May 02 08:55:04 <lardman|home> hmm, well I hope we actually get a release at some point soon then
May 02 08:55:29 <trumee> lardman: i am hoping for tuesday :)
May 02 08:55:49 <trumee> once nokia sees this wild build.
May 02 08:55:59 <lardman|home> and I see the MeeGo conf is set for Dublin
May 02 08:56:05 <lardman|home> to go slightly ot
May 02 08:56:35 <timoph> Dublin sounds like a good place for it
May 02 08:56:36 <trumee> wasnt meego to be released on may 1
May 02 08:56:52 <trumee> the gui component
May 02 08:57:25 <timoph> trumee: doesn't sound likely that they would release something on Saturday
May 02 08:57:25 <lardman|home> timoph: still in the Euro-zone, but with the way Greece is going that might make is quite cheap ;)
May 02 08:57:40 <timoph> :)
May 02 09:00:40 <lardman|home> bbl
May 02 09:03:59 <Chiku> so now that unoffical PR1.2 works maybe nokia will released it faster? but noakia didn't release PR1.2 ?
May 02 09:04:26 <LuciusMare> Hello, what API do i have to use to control the LEDs (on the back side)?
May 02 09:04:27 <Chiku> it doe'sn't look like not technical delay
May 02 09:05:41 <noobmonk3y> back side?! LuciusMare ?
May 02 09:05:50 <noobmonk3y> oh you mean camera led's?
May 02 09:05:53 <LuciusMare> oyes
May 02 09:06:37 <noobmonk3y> LuciusMare, http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Flash_Torch
May 02 09:07:06 <noobmonk3y> A dual LED ADP 1653 flash controller from Analog Devices. The associated kernel module is adp1653 (drivers/media/video/adp1653.c).
May 02 09:07:29 <LuciusMare> thanks
May 02 09:07:31 * noobmonk3y blinks at the 1.2 thread - wow that downloaded fast
May 02 09:08:53 <LuciusMare> downloaded?
May 02 09:08:57 <LuciusMare> 1.2 is out?
May 02 09:09:00 <Chiku> no
May 02 09:09:01 <timoph> no
May 02 09:09:15 <trumee> lol
May 02 09:09:18 <Treibholz> but Overclocking to 5Ghz is safe now!
May 02 09:09:19 <Chiku> it's a leack one form chinese PR
May 02 09:10:37 <arachnist> does it have the english language option?
May 02 09:11:02 <Chiku> form people who flashed it, yes
May 02 09:11:05 <Chiku> english
May 02 09:11:17 <Chiku> but what about chinese
May 02 09:11:34 <Chiku> noone try to get chinese ? :)
May 02 09:13:05 <arachnist> i guess not too many people understand <whichever of the chinese dialects are available>
May 02 09:13:24 <LuciusMare> I am sure they do, for example, chinese people
May 02 09:13:39 <trumee> skype video works ? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51615&page=40
May 02 09:13:42 <Chiku> read page 30
May 02 09:14:42 * noobmonk3y grins
May 02 09:14:47 <noobmonk3y> to flash or not to flash!
May 02 09:14:56 <noobmonk3y> LuciusMare, there is a leaked 1.2
May 02 09:15:02 <LuciusMare> o
May 02 09:15:04 <Chiku> are you a tester?
May 02 09:15:09 <Chiku> if not just wait :)
May 02 09:15:11 <noobmonk3y> lol chiku, considering it
May 02 09:15:20 <noobmonk3y> just reading that whole link
May 02 09:15:35 <noobmonk3y> what's the worst that can happen, i reflash lol
May 02 09:16:32 <noobmonk3y> DocScrutinizer, flashed yours yet hehe
May 02 09:17:55 <Jaffa> Chiku: How do you know it's not a technical delay?
May 02 09:18:15 <noobmonk3y> Jaffa,  :D
May 02 09:18:44 <Jaffa> Chiku: For example, perhaps the HK N900 is a new hardware variant and the delay is because PR1.2 has some regressions on older h/w
May 02 09:18:45 <Chiku> chinese fw works for other n900
May 02 09:19:04 <Jaffa> Chiku: Ah, in the last 24 hours you've done extensive QA? ;-p
May 02 09:20:06 <noobmonk3y> well - i tjhink i'm gonna go test :P
May 02 09:20:09 <noobmonk3y> tjhink*
May 02 09:20:11 <noobmonk3y> think
May 02 09:20:13 <noobmonk3y> wtf
May 02 09:20:17 <noobmonk3y> my keyboard is buggered
May 02 09:20:22 * noobmonk3y blames 1.2
May 02 09:21:49 <Chiku> At bootup it chose Finnish as a language for me. So most probably Italian should be there too!  <-- hum hum
May 02 09:23:57 <noobmonk3y> :D
May 02 09:24:02 <noobmonk3y> lets hope you speak finish ;)
May 02 09:24:57 <Chiku> No Chinese language support apparently.... <-- lol so it seems no chinese PR
May 02 09:25:59 <Shapeshifter> does someone know why nokia doesn't do "public beta" testing? It's a concept that would work quite well with the public bug tracker and an active community.
May 02 09:26:56 <Shapeshifter> I mean, with the reason for the pending release being "testing". It is always true that the more people are using some software, the higher the probability that a bug is encountered.
May 02 09:26:57 <Jaffa> Shapeshifter: Because every single tmo noob would install it; not report bugs and just whine.
May 02 09:27:08 <Jaffa> Shapeshifter: Although for PR1.1, Nokia did do a limited public beta test
May 02 09:27:14 <Jaffa> Shapeshifter: I dunno why they've not done that.
May 02 09:27:18 <Jaffa> s/public/non-Nokia private/
May 02 09:27:21 <Shapeshifter> Jaffa: well they're whining already, public beta or not ;)
May 02 09:27:32 <Jaffa> Shapeshifter: True - but I can ignore them now ;-)
May 02 09:28:07 <Chiku> jaffa are talking about all open  source community which released beta versions ?
May 02 09:28:57 <Jaffa> Chiku: No, I'm talking about the kind of person who sees a thread like "overclock your N900" and thinks "goody!", but then needs hand-holding; doesn't understand the risks and blames Nokia/Maemo/everyone else when things go wrong
May 02 09:29:23 <Shapeshifter> I was thinking more of what microsoft did with win7 and so on. though with the karma system, it would be easy to just give a beta to everyone with more then 500 thanks or so
May 02 09:30:22 <noobmonk3y> not a bad idea
May 02 09:30:24 <Shapeshifter> Jaffa: yeah but legally they can't blame any of them, and I doubt the image of nokia would suffer if some idiot fries his device.
May 02 09:30:56 <Shapeshifter> and it's almost impossible to irreversably brick it (except maybe by frying it).
May 02 09:31:43 <Chiku> hum people reported skype video call works
May 02 09:31:43 <Jaffa> Shapeshifter: I like the karma idea
May 02 09:32:45 <Shapeshifter> in any case, the number of available testers would drastically increase. I always see software makers test their software for months and then release it just to see the 10000% increase in userbase reveal countless bugs
May 02 09:34:16 <trumee> Chiku: i dont use skype, mostly sip. But if skype video workes, i will enable it on my phone
May 02 09:34:46 <trumee> does skype make your phone a supernode as well like the desktop client
May 02 09:34:55 <Chiku> sip supports video?
May 02 09:35:01 * noobmonk3y is flashing ;) - why not ;)
May 02 09:35:18 <trumee> Chiku: unfortunately not
May 02 09:35:53 <trumee> Chiku: the N900 sip client doesn't. although sip protocol itself does
May 02 09:36:07 <noobmonk3y> well that was quick and painless
May 02 09:36:17 <Shapeshifter> Chiku: xmpp does though. It already does in the current version if you get called but it's pretty broken. I think nokia forgot to remove the video support.
May 02 09:36:36 <Chiku> sip uses xmpp protocal?
May 02 09:36:46 <Shapeshifter> no
May 02 09:36:55 <trumee> noobmonk3y: now, you can tell us about it here :)
May 02 09:37:04 <Shapeshifter> they're unrelated. But xmpp is a good alternative to skype these days
May 02 09:37:08 <noobmonk3y> :D
May 02 09:37:13 <noobmonk3y> just setting it up
May 02 09:37:29 <Chiku> does pidgin supports video?
May 02 09:37:42 <Shapeshifter> Chiku: yes
May 02 09:37:50 <Chiku> pidgin on n900 ?
May 02 09:37:54 <Shapeshifter> don't know
May 02 09:38:53 <trumee> does pidgin support video on desktop? kopete doesn't i think
May 02 09:39:00 <noobmonk3y> freaky deaky!
May 02 09:39:06 <noobmonk3y> get a text from nokia after flashing!
May 02 09:39:09 <zash> trumee: it does with xmpp
May 02 09:39:16 <Shapeshifter> trumee: indeed it does
May 02 09:39:26 <noobmonk3y> 105mb free in rootfs lol!!!
May 02 09:39:53 <trumee> zash, Shapeshifter you mean pidgin not kopete?
May 02 09:40:00 <Shapeshifter> trumee: yes
May 02 09:42:39 <delor> is it possible to get qt4.6 on n900?
May 02 09:44:52 <Chiku> noobmonk3y, so is it a RC one?
May 02 09:46:22 <noobmonk3y> doesnt say that anywhere
May 02 09:46:26 <noobmonk3y> just reinstalling backup
May 02 09:52:16 <Chiku> let's see now whan the official one will be released since the unofficial is out and works
May 02 09:52:30 <noobmonk3y> :D
May 02 09:52:41 <noobmonk3y> takes ages to restore everything!
May 02 09:52:50 <Chiku> what about extra devel repos?
May 02 09:52:52 <noobmonk3y> ooo fcucksocks, forgot to save the debs for joiku and prismic
May 02 09:53:15 <noobmonk3y> dunno at the mo - it's restoring still
May 02 09:53:38 * SpeedEvil ponders asking what unofficial one Chiku meant, then notes the topic.
May 02 09:55:43 <frals> hmm, is it even legal to mirror the firmware
May 02 09:55:49 <frals> like someone has done with the hk one?
May 02 09:56:25 <ShadowJK> probably not? :)
May 02 09:56:31 <Chiku> it doesn't seem the hk one since there no chinese language
May 02 09:57:10 <wazd> wtf is wrong with ovi
May 02 09:57:33 <ShadowJK> But you know, regardless if you're a movie company, tv company or software company, your stuff is twice as likely to get copied if you restrict availability :)
May 02 09:57:39 <Chiku> what are you doing wityh ovi ? there are nothing for n900 on ovi :p
May 02 09:58:01 * noobmonk3y grins
May 02 09:58:15 <wazd> Chiku: well, angrybirds and stuff :)
May 02 09:58:19 * noobmonk3y prods frals 
May 02 09:58:50 <frals> be nice if that "unofficial" image nukes nolo on reboot
May 02 09:58:57 <noobmonk3y> nolo?
May 02 09:58:59 <SpeedEvil> I played out the additional level pack that I accidentally downloaded. I'd _love_ to pay for it
May 02 09:58:59 <Chiku> what frals means ?
May 02 09:59:03 <SpeedEvil> nokia bootloader
May 02 09:59:06 <noobmonk3y> ahhh
May 02 09:59:08 <trumee> noobmonk3y: what is prismic!
May 02 09:59:15 <noobmonk3y> would rather it didn't
May 02 09:59:24 <noobmonk3y> wallpaper manager trumee
May 02 09:59:30 <noobmonk3y> ~prismic
May 02 09:59:39 <SpeedEvil> I got to the point I was going for 'four star' ways to beat the levels
May 02 09:59:40 <noobmonk3y> meh infobot is on holiday
May 02 09:59:56 <SpeedEvil> Prismic is the shape of a prism innit.
May 02 10:01:41 <noobmonk3y> oooo
May 02 10:01:45 <noobmonk3y> ovi maps 3 installed
May 02 10:01:57 <Chiku> with voice one?
May 02 10:02:02 <noobmonk3y> voice one?
May 02 10:02:19 <Chiku> the one for symbian
May 02 10:02:51 * noobmonk3y is confuzzled
May 02 10:02:55 <trumee> playing mp3 takes lot of cpu, hate it
May 02 10:03:20 <trumee> pulseaudio takes 25 percent when playing mp3
May 02 10:03:23 <noobmonk3y> hmmm maybe it's just new maps
May 02 10:03:26 <noobmonk3y> will check it in a sec
May 02 10:03:51 <trumee> stuttering happens when microb needs resoirces
May 02 10:04:03 * noobmonk3y winders why frals is so quiet this morning
May 02 10:04:09 * noobmonk3y wonders too
May 02 10:04:19 <trumee> is that the processor so weak that mp3 cause it to stutter
May 02 10:04:38 <trumee> or do i need to reduce the bitrate of mp3s
May 02 10:04:38 <SpeedEvil> trumee: 25% of 250MHz - have you got 125MHz enabled?
May 02 10:04:53 <ShadowJK> No it's usually IO that blocks it, not CPU
May 02 10:05:21 <SpeedEvil> And I've never seen teh stock mp3 thingy skip with load
May 02 10:05:24 <SpeedEvil> other than IO
May 02 10:05:39 <ShadowJK> Amusingly streaming mp3 over http/shoutcast stutters less
May 02 10:05:48 <Chiku> noobmonk3y, Voice navigation?
May 02 10:06:08 <trumee> SpeedEvil: i didnt not enable anything, stock kernel/firmware
May 02 10:06:10 * noobmonk3y doesnt have a clue - restore still going lol
May 02 10:06:46 <trumee> ShadowJK: maybe i should stream rather than play from disk
May 02 10:06:53 <SpeedEvil> trumee: were you doing anything else other than microb?
May 02 10:07:12 <trumee> SpeedEvil: xchat
May 02 10:07:19 <SpeedEvil> trumee: or had you been running microb for a long time, or with heavy pages so it might have gone  into swap?
May 02 10:07:44 <trumee> SpeedEvil: also, was opening an email
May 02 10:08:01 <trumee> SpeedEvil: trying to load images in an email
May 02 10:08:12 <ShadowJK> the whole mafw/media player and pulseaudio setup is a bit misdesigned if there aren't sufficient bffering in it :/
May 02 10:08:19 <SpeedEvil> trumee: that could be quite heavy on IO - I guess that does it
May 02 10:08:32 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: yeah - it really needs a couple of buffering settings.
May 02 10:08:48 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: ~1.5s for most streaming stuff, and ~.1s for games
May 02 10:09:04 <trumee> ShadowJK: why do we need pulseaudio, why cant we use alsa alone
May 02 10:09:13 <ShadowJK> I'm not particulary keen on the idea of having settings, it should Just Work(TM)
May 02 10:09:24 <SpeedEvil> alsa alone won't mix stuff smoothly
May 02 10:09:37 <ShadowJK> trumee: dmix is broken, and volume per app doesn't work
May 02 10:09:44 <delor> is qt4.6.2 usable only in SDK Scratchbox?
May 02 10:10:12 <ShadowJK> I'd say 1s output buffer and 10s input buffer for music
May 02 10:10:29 <SpeedEvil> trumee: If you can replicate it - then report it as a bug
May 02 10:10:48 <ShadowJK> delor: qt4.6 will arrive to n900 with the next firmware release. Nokia does not announce dates in advance.
May 02 10:12:28 <Chiku> which version is on PR1.1.1?
May 02 10:13:10 <ShadowJK> 4.5.3
May 02 10:13:13 <trumee> i might have to return my N900 bcause of this bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10074
May 02 10:13:14 <povbot> Bug 10074: Three UK ISP, 3g data connections stops working after few minutes
May 02 10:13:22 <wall[e]> anyone want to use speech recognition with qtirreco?
May 02 10:13:41 <SpeedEvil> trumee: Have you called Nokia Care?
May 02 10:14:09 <trumee> SpeedEvil: no i haven't. how do i do that?
May 02 10:14:16 <ShadowJK> my Operator used to be like that too, and the other operator I had was rock stable with the same device (E70)
May 02 10:14:18 <wall[e]> or flash PR1.2HK?
May 02 10:14:20 <wall[e]> j/k
May 02 10:14:27 <delor> ShadowJK, thx
May 02 10:15:06 <frals> nice 60second timeout between you can report posts :<
May 02 10:15:34 <SpeedEvil> trumee: http://www.nokia.co.uk/support/contact-us
May 02 10:15:46 <trumee> ShadowJK: it is a problem of network?
May 02 10:15:57 <trumee> SpeedEvil: thanks
May 02 10:16:33 <Chiku> qt4.6 supports multitouch even on resitive screen right?
May 02 10:16:48 <ShadowJK> trumee: if you ask the network they blame Nokia, if you ask Nokia they show you your phone working perfectly on another network and blame your operator.. or atleast that has been my experience :)
May 02 10:16:57 <ShadowJK> but add your vote to that bug anyway
May 02 10:17:08 <ShadowJK> if you're exoeriencing the same thing
May 02 10:17:41 <trumee> ShadowJK: i am the reporter of that bug :)
May 02 10:17:54 <ShadowJK> oh :)
May 02 10:18:14 <ShadowJK> is there nobody else on three in uk..
May 02 10:18:22 <Chiku> trumee, after flashed your phone you still got this problem?
May 02 10:18:29 <trumee> ShadowJK: what network your were having problem with?
May 02 10:19:01 <trumee> Chiku: yes. i flashed just to test for that bug
May 02 10:19:01 <ShadowJK> Saunalahti in .fi. DNAFinland was rock solid on same device.
May 02 10:19:16 <Chiku> After flashed it NO more problem
May 02 10:19:27 <RST38bis> mooo, ShadowJK
May 02 10:19:37 <ShadowJK> meow
May 02 10:19:50 <Tuukka> talk.maemo.org down?
May 02 10:20:02 <frals> it seems so yes
May 02 10:20:04 <RST38bis> no
May 02 10:20:18 <Tuukka> Doesn't respond for me
May 02 10:20:27 <Chiku> phone call stops around 1min and lost operator connexion,... something it worked fine
May 02 10:20:42 * RST38bis notices that andrewfblack seemingly broke more thngs than he fixed in his latest minimalist tmo theme
May 02 10:20:48 <Chiku> sometimes*
May 02 10:20:57 <djdm> Yep, I'm getting tmo down, too
May 02 10:21:02 <trumee> There is somebody else who reported this on tmo
May 02 10:21:14 <RST38bis> Tuukka: sacrifice more virgins!
May 02 10:21:33 <Chiku> tmo down happend often right?
May 02 10:21:58 <trumee> seems everybody is after pr1.2 :p
May 02 10:22:47 <Tuukka> I'll be waiting for the official release
May 02 10:22:48 <djdm> Oh, tmo has given me a database error
May 02 10:22:52 <ShadowJK> rst38h: jump to first new post still broken?
May 02 10:23:17 <noobmonk3y> hmmmm
May 02 10:23:32 <noobmonk3y> anyone know where to find the thread with the links to the "clear icons" for the desktop
May 02 10:23:46 <noobmonk3y> tis a mare trying to refind all this customizing malarky
May 02 10:23:48 <RST38bis> ShadowJK: dunno, I am mostly pissed off at the layout
May 02 10:24:04 <Tuukka> clear icons = no gray background??
May 02 10:24:07 <noobmonk3y> yeah
May 02 10:24:16 <Tuukka> I'd like that too
May 02 10:24:26 <noobmonk3y> tis in the mammoth old customize thread somewhere
May 02 10:24:32 <noobmonk3y> just replaced a file on the device
May 02 10:24:36 <noobmonk3y> but finding it is a pain
May 02 10:24:42 <Tuukka> Does it work for 3rd party apps aswell=
May 02 10:24:43 <RST38bis> ShadowJK: guy can't just avoid the lure of designing "nice" visual elements like bubbles etc
May 02 10:24:52 <ShadowJK> lol
May 02 10:24:54 <ShadowJK> yeah
May 02 10:24:56 <noobmonk3y> ?
May 02 10:25:02 <t-tan> two version of Qt4.6.2 get installed on PR1.2. bad for memory footprint...
May 02 10:25:14 <RST38bis> even although they are  ugly, big, and useless
May 02 10:25:28 <noobmonk3y> still got 98mb free in rootfs after re-installing my backups!
May 02 10:25:33 <ShadowJK> Sometimes I just want a plain text interface because a) it works b) the revolutionary invention of wordwrap makes it scale ;p
May 02 10:25:46 <ShadowJK> t-tan: wtf? :)
May 02 10:26:11 <RST38bis> ShadowJK: Google Reader Mobile UI is pretty decent
May 02 10:26:12 <t-tan> ShadowJK: the one from Nokia and qt-maemo5*
May 02 10:26:14 <noobmonk3y> Khertan, your repo down?
May 02 10:26:31 <RST38bis> So, just copying that should do the job
May 02 10:27:02 <ShadowJK> t-tan: what versions are they?
May 02 10:27:50 <Tuukka> talk back online
May 02 10:27:51 * Jaffa wonders how long it'll be before rumours of tmo being down are blamed on Nokia wanting to contain the PR1.2 leak :-/
May 02 10:28:18 <RST38bis> cant complain with tmo down
May 02 10:28:21 <t-tan> for example, ii  libqt4-gui                    4.6.2~git20100310-0maemo1+0m5 Qt 4 GUI module
May 02 10:28:21 <t-tan> ii  libqt4-maemo5-gui             4.6.2~git20100212-0maemo1     Qt 4 GUI module
May 02 10:28:55 <ShadowJK> wtf :)
May 02 10:29:38 <frals> Jaffa: "omg nokia took down talk.maemo.org because of pr1.2 leak!!!!!"
May 02 10:30:15 <frals> t-tan: -maem5 is the old one from devel aint it?
May 02 10:30:16 <RST38bis> t-tan: you have got a package that wants the older qt version
May 02 10:30:19 <fils-maudit> Isn't maemo the OS who stole everything to Moblin ?
May 02 10:30:31 <RST38bis> yes it is
May 02 10:30:43 <Jaffa> frals: Eeek?!
May 02 10:30:44 <RST38bis> and it is worse than iphone.
May 02 10:30:56 <RST38bis> go masturbate over that now.
May 02 10:31:03 <frals> Jaffa: ;D
May 02 10:31:04 <trumee> ShadowJK: this chap had the same problem http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50784
May 02 10:31:39 <RST38bis> Jaffa: see, if you suggest nicely, they obey
May 02 10:32:35 <ShadowJK> RST38bis, hm huh, im getting no ballons/lines/crap compared to before
May 02 10:32:45 <Trizt> any news about pr 1.3.4.2.3.532.3?
May 02 10:32:49 <ShadowJK> and fontsize is sensible-ish on n810
May 02 10:32:57 <ShadowJK> and jump to first new works
May 02 10:32:57 <t-tan> ok, found out that only autodisconnect and ses depend on the old Qt version.
May 02 10:33:20 <RST38bis> ShadowJK: every message in a thread shows up in a baloon
May 02 10:33:23 * ShadowJK wonders if the .css failed to load
May 02 10:33:40 <ShadowJK> Yeah I don't get that
May 02 10:34:46 <ShadowJK> I get name | number | date | report
May 02 10:34:55 <ShadowJK> <hr>
May 02 10:34:59 <ShadowJK> body
May 02 10:35:05 <ShadowJK> <hr>
May 02 10:35:11 <ShadowJK> minimalist and nice.
May 02 10:37:53 <RST38bis> maybe I am usiing the wrong minimalist???
May 02 10:38:08 <noobmonk3y> Tuukka, http://www.nokian900applications.com/remove-the-shadow-of-the-desktop-icons-on-our-nokia-n900/
May 02 10:38:47 <ShadowJK> oh yeah, minimalist dark has the bubbles
May 02 10:39:09 <arachnist> .25
May 02 10:39:12 <arachnist> whoops
May 02 10:46:46 <noobmonk3y> wohoooo device back to normal
May 02 10:50:16 <ShadowJK> The new minimalist light makes browsing tmo on n900 a not-painful experience again
May 02 10:50:23 <ShadowJK> as far as browsing goes :0
May 02 11:03:09 <Tuukka> noobmonk3y, Thanks!
May 02 11:04:01 <noobmonk3y> np :D
May 02 11:05:18 * MohammadAG thought everyone hated him with no email for 5 days, turns out modest removed its own settings...
May 02 11:05:34 <noobmonk3y> frals, Healthcheck 1.2.0-0 ready to go, with you guessed it - PR1.2 readyness ;) hehehe
May 02 11:05:53 * MohammadAG kicks noobmonk3y 
May 02 11:05:57 * noobmonk3y grins
May 02 11:06:10 <wall[e]> i guess pr1.2hk just kill m.o ?
May 02 11:06:18 <wall[e]> forum
May 02 11:06:31 <noobmonk3y> m.o?
May 02 11:06:34 <noobmonk3y> oh tmo!
May 02 11:06:38 <noobmonk3y> think so
May 02 11:06:55 <MohammadAG> me?
May 02 11:06:56 <wall[e]> better get some food waiting :S
May 02 11:06:59 <wall[e]> you
May 02 11:07:00 <MohammadAG> oh tmo
May 02 11:07:03 <wall[e]> YES
May 02 11:07:19 <wall[e]> food!
May 02 11:07:58 <d14> o/
May 02 11:09:30 <Tuukka> which theme is alpha nad which beta?
May 02 11:10:23 <Tuukka> I'm using digital nature.
May 02 11:10:25 <MohammadAG> alpha's the blue 1
May 02 11:10:33 <Tuukka> k, thanks!
May 02 11:10:42 <frals> i wonder how the spam about leakedfw affect nokias view on maemo.org
May 02 11:10:55 <noobmonk3y> frals, where it is leaked doesnt really matter
May 02 11:10:58 <noobmonk3y> wasnt tmo's fault
May 02 11:11:07 <noobmonk3y> even if it was a tweet - it woulda been out quick
May 02 11:11:21 <frals> the fact its getting spammed there might
May 02 11:11:33 <noobmonk3y> lol that just depends how childish nokia is ;)
May 02 11:11:43 <noobmonk3y> right, time for a big fat fryup
May 02 11:15:57 <PhonicUK> alo all
May 02 11:18:28 <Tuukka> What software should i use to compress my boot video? What settings?
May 02 11:23:14 <wazd> anybody's interested in developing shortcut bar status applet for n900? :)
May 02 11:23:55 <MohammadAG__> there is one afaik
May 02 11:25:29 <nid0> so yeah, just back home after being out a couple of days, can anyone sum up the 650-post 1.2 "released" thread for me?
May 02 11:26:38 <frals> someone linked the hk release fw
May 02 11:26:55 <anotnac> its global variant leak not HK
May 02 11:27:16 <nid0> so that's a leaked version of the legit fw image?
May 02 11:27:20 <Jaffa> wazd: Shortcut? For apps?
May 02 11:27:27 <wazd> Jaffa: yep
May 02 11:27:34 <Jaffa> nid0: It seems to be a leaked version of *a* legit fw image.
May 02 11:27:34 <wazd> Jaffa: like mini dock
May 02 11:27:37 <frals> "legit"
May 02 11:27:46 <Jaffa> nid0: It may not be the one which is released to the world
May 02 11:27:53 <Jaffa> wazd: Seen the one which already exists?
May 02 11:28:11 <wazd> Jaffa: nope, how it's called?
May 02 11:28:21 <wazd> Jaffa: I honestly searched
May 02 11:28:23 <Jaffa> wazd: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46321
May 02 11:28:44 <wazd> oh, that's nice, thanks Jaffa :)
May 02 11:28:53 <Jaffa> wazd: np
May 02 11:37:39 <wazd> what's so dramatical bout PR 1.2 btw?
May 02 11:38:09 <wazd> haven't seen that much bugs and stuff yet
May 02 11:38:47 <wazd> microb crashed once, chromium crashed once, portrait mode everywhere once, that's kinda all :)
May 02 11:39:08 <Tuukka> Not much really... Few nice new features and some bug fixes
May 02 11:39:37 <wazd> I wonder why ovi's down
May 02 11:40:09 <Noma> does anyone have the conversations-problem with the leaked pr1.2? received messages don't get archived, i still can receive and send messages, but can't find them anywhere afterwards
May 02 11:40:12 <Tuukka> wazd, ovi is working fine for me
May 02 11:40:20 <wazd> Tuukka: hmmm
May 02 11:40:35 <jacekowski> nobody ripped 1.2 from HK n900?
May 02 11:40:46 <Chiku> nope it's not hk one
May 02 11:40:47 <wazd> Tuukka: authorisation is down for me both from n900, e63 and PC
May 02 11:41:14 <Tuukka> did you use the shortcut in the menu?
May 02 11:41:25 <wazd> Tuukka: does it matter? :D
May 02 11:41:48 <Tuukka> maybe? Dunno
May 02 11:41:50 <MohammadAG_> jacekowski, it was leaked
May 02 11:42:01 <wazd> Tuukka: I tell you, it says that authorizations servers are down, check back later. From PC too
May 02 11:43:45 <jacekowski> any download link?
May 02 11:43:57 <Tuukka> check the threat in talk
May 02 11:44:09 <jacekowski> well, i have small problem with that link
May 02 11:44:21 <jacekowski> i don't understand that language and i've got no idea where to click
May 02 11:44:35 <Tuukka> http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5526521/Maemo_5_PR1.2_Joshv06
May 02 11:44:40 <jacekowski> we are talking about http://www.rayfile.com/zh-cn/files/39306400-5536-11df-8581-0015c55db73d/?
May 02 11:45:10 <Tuukka> it's the same file, it has been hosted to multiple sites
May 02 11:45:50 <Noma> so no one here has the conversations-problem?
May 02 11:46:08 <MohammadAG> seriously if you're leaking something leak it as a tar.gz
May 02 11:47:30 <Tuukka> * away, playing Mass Effect 2
May 02 11:47:48 <wall[e]> tmo is so dead
May 02 11:48:02 <jacekowski> http://jacekowski.org/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.12-9_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin.bz2
May 02 11:48:07 <jacekowski> if anybody is interested
May 02 11:48:15 <Noma> is there some way to reset the conversations-app or its settings completely?
May 02 11:48:33 <jacekowski> Noma: probably removing folder from your ~/
May 02 11:49:03 <Noma> what folder?
May 02 11:50:01 <jacekowski> remove them all
May 02 11:50:21 <jacekowski> ( disclaimer, if something else will disappear it's your problem )
May 02 11:50:33 <Noma> :)
May 02 11:51:08 <Noma> it's maybe my problem in any case after i've flashed some leaked firmware from unknown source :D
May 02 11:52:46 <MohammadAG> Oh crap, I almost forgot /opt is cleared
May 02 11:53:54 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, not being an arse or anything, but isn't it illegal to share the file?
May 02 11:54:06 <MohammadAG> (ignoring the torrents and other leaks obviously)
May 02 11:54:22 <jacekowski> do you really think i care?
May 02 11:54:42 <t-tan> jacekowski: be careful with posting copyrighted material...
May 02 11:54:50 <jacekowski> i mean it's publicly avaliable anyways
May 02 11:55:04 <jacekowski> so nobody would bother to do anything about it
May 02 11:55:16 <mikki-kun> hi uhm... i wanted to remove the preinstalled games on my n900 and found some pkgs with "apt-cache pkgnames | grep $STRING_FROM_GAMETITLE"... would it be safe for me to just remove then those?
May 02 11:55:35 <jacekowski> yes
May 02 11:55:52 <mikki-kun> ok, thanks :)
May 02 11:55:59 <t-tan> jacekowski: most DVDs+CDs are "publically" available but it is not legal to distribute them
May 02 11:56:18 <jacekowski> yeah, but you have to pay for dvd's
May 02 11:56:27 <jacekowski> that's free
May 02 11:56:36 <MohammadAG> LOL
May 02 11:57:13 <Noma> i don't think nokia would care about this
May 02 11:57:13 <t-tan> jacekowski: when the Nokia legal department contacts you it's no longer free...
May 02 11:57:39 <Noma> actually they get a lot of beta-testers here and they all do the flashing completely at their own risk
May 02 12:00:05 <Treibholz> hmm, why is there no sqlite3 module for python in the sdk?
May 02 12:00:29 <jacekowski> t-tan: imagine that case would go to court
May 02 12:00:56 <jacekowski> t-tan: they would have to prove that i caused them any loses
May 02 12:01:46 <MohammadAG> I'm still wondering who leaked it
May 02 12:02:01 <jacekowski> it's probably rip from hk version
May 02 12:02:06 * MohammadAG looks at infobot 
May 02 12:02:14 <wall[e]> is it possible that nokia just want massive testers w/o paid and chance of being sued?
May 02 12:02:35 <frals> lol
May 02 12:03:13 <t-tan> jacekowski: I don't know where you're living but in most developed countries copyright infringement itself is criminal
May 02 12:05:57 <jacekowski> t-tan: it is but i'll get probation in worst case scenario
May 02 12:06:08 <jacekowski> t-tan: if they will manage to link that back to me
May 02 12:08:20 * noobmonk3y prods lcuk 
May 02 12:09:54 <Treibholz> http://paste.debian.net/71628/
May 02 12:10:07 <Treibholz> sqlite3 is there, but I cannot import it...
May 02 12:14:09 <mikki-kun> Ö.ö why does "mymenu" need the 4 games which i just uninstalled?!
May 02 12:14:43 <mikki-kun> any way i could edit the packages ebuild?
May 02 12:15:00 <jacekowski>  there is no ebuilds on maemo
May 02 12:15:17 <mikki-kun> hm, then what would be the adaptation of ebuild on maemo?
May 02 12:15:34 <Treibholz> ebuild... that would take AGES
May 02 12:15:43 <mikki-kun> cause i just want mymenu not those games -.-
May 02 12:15:53 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: maemo uses dpkg
May 02 12:16:46 <Trizt> whihc games are you trying to get rid of? the ones that comes with maemo5?
May 02 12:17:00 <mikki-kun> yup
May 02 12:17:05 <mikki-kun> and i got rid of em
May 02 12:17:23 <Chiku> about VANILLA EMMC image do you flash it before or after COMBINED one ?
May 02 12:17:26 * lcuk prods noobmonk3y back
May 02 12:17:40 <Trizt> it's a maemo dependncy, each time you make some install those will come back
May 02 12:17:41 * noobmonk3y waves
May 02 12:17:55 <mikki-kun> w00t?!
May 02 12:18:00 <mikki-kun> Ö.ö
May 02 12:18:27 <mikki-kun> that is... f'd up...
May 02 12:19:09 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: same happens in gentoo, when you update soure ebuild-repository...
May 02 12:19:13 * MohammadAG pings lcuk 
May 02 12:19:49 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: and you don't need a compiler!
May 02 12:19:50 <mikki-kun> any way of blacklisting those packages?
May 02 12:20:46 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: when they are a hard dependency, it will be hard.
May 02 12:20:54 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: which package?
May 02 12:21:11 <mikki-kun> mymenu would be now the package which causes them to get installed
May 02 12:21:25 <Treibholz> # apt-cache show mymenu
May 02 12:21:25 <Treibholz> W: Unable to locate package mymenu
May 02 12:21:25 <Treibholz> E: No packages found
May 02 12:21:56 <Treibholz> the packages in maemo do not have the same quality, as in Debian...
May 02 12:22:14 <Treibholz> they also write in /home/user/, which is pretty ugly.
May 02 12:22:59 <gevaerts> mikki-kun: you could try equivs
May 02 12:23:41 <MohammadAG> /home/opt not /home/user
May 02 12:23:54 * Treibholz would say: Fuck the games! There is enough space!
May 02 12:23:54 <mikki-kun> Treibholz: to me "apt-cache showpkg mymenu" shows something entirely different
May 02 12:25:06 <Treibholz> MohammadAG: e.g.: dpkg -L adblock-plus-1.0
May 02 12:26:22 <Treibholz> MohammadAG: http://paste.debian.net/71630/
May 02 12:26:22 <mikki-kun> how do i install a specific version number of a package?
May 02 12:26:46 <javispedro> Treibholz: "maemo is different"
May 02 12:26:56 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: man apt-get
May 02 12:27:54 <Treibholz> apt-get install pkg [ { =pkg_version_number | /target_release_name | /target_release_codename } ]
May 02 12:27:55 <mikki-kun> would love having "man" on the n900
May 02 12:28:24 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: yes... this is maybe one of the most stupid ideas they had, removing the manpages...
May 02 12:28:53 <Treibholz> this thing has 32GB of space an the remove ~10MB manpages...
May 02 12:28:55 <mikki-kun> they take space... but space which is used for something goof
May 02 12:28:57 <mikki-kun> *good
May 02 12:29:08 <javispedro> not for the average user, which will never read them...
May 02 12:29:12 <mikki-kun> i rahter have 4MB man's than 4MB of nonsense games...
May 02 12:29:33 <Treibholz> javispedro: I don't know any "average user", that owns a n900.
May 02 12:29:39 <mikki-kun> lol :D
May 02 12:29:46 <javispedro> I know a thousand of them
May 02 12:30:00 <javispedro> They're now fleeing like lemmings to their bittorrent clients.
May 02 12:30:11 <mikki-kun> Ö.ö
May 02 12:30:16 <mikki-kun> why?
May 02 12:30:55 <javispedro> look at the active topics in talk.maemo.org
May 02 12:32:02 * SpeedEvil wonders if anyones gone over this image for 'fun'.
May 02 12:32:16 * javispedro wonders if "RELEASED" on the topic title is doing more damange
May 02 12:32:23 <SpeedEvil> Like a leetle daemon that mails all your contact info.
May 02 12:32:38 <SpeedEvil> Or installs a keylogger searching for cc
May 02 12:32:48 <javispedro> There have sooooooooooooooooooooo many times I would like to do that ;P
May 02 12:33:20 <javispedro> Cause it would be _trivial_ for anyone to create their own fscked up PR1.2 image with half SDK components and half previous image components
May 02 12:33:43 <SpeedEvil> Or working accellerometer switching - but upside-down.
May 02 12:33:44 <SpeedEvil> :)
May 02 12:33:51 <javispedro> and also add in any "extra" applications and features
May 02 12:34:01 <SpeedEvil> overclock kernel of course
May 02 12:34:31 <SpeedEvil> fmms
May 02 12:34:59 <javispedro> a little daemon sending "special" sms to all contacts
May 02 12:35:09 <mikki-kun> w00t? now that is odd... when the pkg-manager is running (the one you use with your finger) you can't override the lockfile even with the root-acc?
May 02 12:35:19 <ShadowJK> maybe some mod could change released to 'leaked'
May 02 12:35:38 <mikki-kun> make me feel kind of like "sorry root, but user is more powerful than you"
May 02 12:35:45 <noobmonk3y> healthcheck now reads the version as PR 1.2 - Leaky Release
May 02 12:36:12 <gevaerts> mikki-kun: you can kill the thing
May 02 12:36:39 <mikki-kun> i know, but still kind of... "odd"
May 02 12:36:43 <b-man> i wonder how Nokia feels about that PR1.2 image being leaked :P
May 02 12:36:45 <gevaerts> It's accessing the same data, overriding the lockfile would lead to "interesting" situations
May 02 12:36:48 <Termana> god, how long must I suffer from the discussion of the leaked PR 1.2?
May 02 12:37:00 <Termana> /ignore whole-room
May 02 12:37:02 <Termana> :P
May 02 12:37:09 * gevaerts looks for a room
May 02 12:37:16 * gevaerts doesn't see any room
May 02 12:37:25 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: that's normal.
May 02 12:37:47 <mikki-kun> yeah, maybe i got too used of seperating user and root
May 02 12:38:04 * Termana slaps gevaerts with an n900 and says he doesn't care
May 02 12:38:07 <mikki-kun> here on this box i haven't even sudo installed
May 02 12:38:07 <Termana> Poor n900
May 02 12:38:12 <gevaerts> mikki-kun: it has *nothing* to do with separating user and root, and *everything* with maintaining data integrity
May 02 12:38:27 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: apt-get install sudo
May 02 12:38:31 <ShadowJK> b-man: it was one of the biggest booze weekends of the year in .fi. If they're like me they're still too hungover to care.
May 02 12:38:41 <zokier> besides the app-manager probably runs as root too
May 02 12:38:45 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: here it was preinstalled...
May 02 12:38:46 <mikki-kun> Treibholz: here on gentoo i apt-get myself to death :D
May 02 12:39:06 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: ahh, you don't use sudo normally?
May 02 12:39:13 <mikki-kun> not at all anymore
May 02 12:39:33 <mikki-kun> kind of made the n900 in the beginning a small mystery of how to "su" there
May 02 12:40:00 * Treibholz even took away root's password, so I can only become root with a key or with sudo.
May 02 12:40:50 <mikki-kun> what is actually the root-pw for the n900? Ö.ö
May 02 12:40:57 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: set it.
May 02 12:41:04 <Treibholz> sudo gainroot
May 02 12:41:13 <javispedro> it has no rootpw.
May 02 12:41:21 <Treibholz> which is good.
May 02 12:41:30 <Treibholz> root doesn't need a password!
May 02 12:41:36 <mikki-kun> ahhh, so i even need to set that... just curious, how was somebody able to get root if this account isn't accesible
May 02 12:41:48 <javispedro> don't see any reason for either "yes" or "no".
May 02 12:41:58 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: via sudo.
May 02 12:42:06 <mikki-kun> meh, my typing is really bad today >.<
May 02 12:42:54 <mikki-kun> whoah, sudo -i is way faster than sudo gainroot
May 02 12:42:59 * Stskeeps yawns
May 02 12:43:04 <MohammadAG> <b-man> i wonder how Nokia feels about that PR1.2 image being leaked :P
May 02 12:43:12 <MohammadAG> someone's being tortured for doing it
May 02 12:44:27 <lcuk> sigh
May 02 12:44:35 <Treibholz> because of this broken SDK, I have to develop on my real device...
May 02 12:44:56 <b-man|n900> MohammadAG: or loosing their job lol
May 02 12:45:26 <MohammadAG> s/loosing/lost
May 02 12:45:34 * b-man|n900 develops on his n900 all the time
May 02 12:45:53 <noobmonk3y> hmmmmmm
May 02 12:46:04 <noobmonk3y> what are the chances that the leaky release is bugged, not healthcheck :|
May 02 12:46:14 <Termana> MohammadAG, wrong company
May 02 12:46:15 <MohammadAG> and how exactly do you compile :P
May 02 12:46:17 <Termana> :P
May 02 12:46:19 * noobmonk3y will file a bug report under leaky release version ;)
May 02 12:46:33 <Treibholz> grrr and MyDocs as vfat is also stupid!
May 02 12:46:37 <MohammadAG> Termana, lol, Apple's basically the same
May 02 12:46:46 <MohammadAG> all companies do the same
May 02 12:47:02 <MohammadAG> Treibholz, get rid of them
May 02 12:47:11 <MohammadAG> you'll lose your camera, but meh, who needs one
May 02 12:47:28 <Treibholz> *sigh*
May 02 12:47:48 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: I know that was the case early-on. As I understand it now that's fixed.
May 02 12:47:57 <javispedro> Treibholz: broken SDK?
May 02 12:48:13 <Treibholz> javispedro: http://paste.debian.net/71628/
May 02 12:48:36 <Treibholz> javispedro: sqlite3 module for python is not working.
May 02 12:48:38 <javispedro> Treibholz: have you noticed that you're running python2.3?
May 02 12:48:50 <javispedro> Treibholz: run python2.5
May 02 12:49:31 <Treibholz> uhh.... where is that coming from? :-)
May 02 12:49:32 <b-man> python2.3 is _old_
May 02 12:49:54 <javispedro> python2.3 comes from scratchbox itself; it's run native instead of emulated
May 02 12:50:42 <Treibholz> *sigh*
May 02 12:51:15 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, fixed? how?
May 02 12:52:19 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: I'm unsure. I sidestepped it. I made myDocs 4G
May 02 12:52:22 <SpeedEvil> and vfat
May 02 12:53:01 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, and the rest?
May 02 12:53:03 <Chiku> does zsh package exists for meamo?
May 02 12:53:17 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: the rest as an ext2 in /home/user/data/
May 02 12:53:21 <SpeedEvil> ext3
May 02 12:53:36 <MohammadAG> oh, not for opt then
May 02 12:53:50 <SpeedEvil> no - /home/ is still 2G as stock
May 02 12:54:03 <Chiku> there is file system for flash device?
May 02 12:54:11 <PerfDave> There's JFFS
May 02 12:54:13 <Chiku> yes
May 02 12:54:34 <SpeedEvil> PerfDave: jffs is raw-flash only, as is ubifs
May 02 12:55:20 <lirakis> nice ... pr1.2 rc leaked
May 02 12:55:20 <SpeedEvil> PerfDave: that is - they could only be used on the 256M device - not the 32G - which has an internal flas thransaction layer, and presents as more or less a 'hard disk'.
May 02 12:55:46 <ShadowJK> LogFS would be nice
May 02 12:55:53 <ShadowJK> if it ever becomes ready :)
May 02 12:55:57 <Treibholz> nilfs :-)
May 02 12:56:06 <gevaerts> SpeedEvil: well, they *can* be used there with some hoops, but it's an extremely pointless thing to do
May 02 12:56:13 <MohammadAG> lirakis, nothing nice about it :)
May 02 12:56:24 <SpeedEvil> gevaerts: debatably.
May 02 12:56:29 <lirakis> MohammadAG, why is that?
May 02 12:56:53 <SpeedEvil> gevaerts: some of the ubifs features may do positive stuff even on an emulated block device. I haven't looked into this in enough data.
May 02 12:57:01 <ShadowJK> nilfs2 is nice in performance, but the GC behaviour is battery and wear unfriendly
May 02 12:57:12 <ayanes> Hi there
May 02 12:57:14 <MohammadAG> lirakis, clue's in your sentence leaked
May 02 12:57:49 <lirakis> why is it bad that it is "leaked"
May 02 12:58:26 <Treibholz> hmm, my script works on the original, device and breaks the calendar in the sdk...
May 02 12:59:07 <MohammadAG> lirakis, cause 1. It's a test image, 2. someone leaked it
May 02 12:59:23 <MohammadAG> I'm more worried about 2 right now
May 02 13:00:00 <lirakis> i dont see a problem with getting it out there.  i wish nokia were more open with the whole process instead of keeping quiet about firmware and features until they launch
May 02 13:00:07 <lcuk> bbl
May 02 13:00:51 <frals> would be nice to have a filter for all this pr1.2 leak
May 02 13:01:00 <frals> so i dont have to see it everywhere
May 02 13:01:05 <MohammadAG> frals, indeed
May 02 13:01:49 <lirakis> if nokia didnt try be apple with it... it would be such a talked about thing
May 02 13:01:54 <MohammadAG> frals, #maemo1.1.1 :P
May 02 13:02:16 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: you are from israel?
May 02 13:02:22 <squidd> frals: /ignore #maemo perhaps?
May 02 13:02:32 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, yeah
May 02 13:02:33 <frals> lirakis: you honestly think the maemo5 updates are comparable to how apple handle iphone os?
May 02 13:02:48 <lirakis> frals, no
May 02 13:02:50 <frals> squidd: ye, problem is id miss the few good things that comes out of this channel :p
May 02 13:03:01 <lirakis> i mean that nokia tries to keep all info etc. on lockdown
May 02 13:03:34 <gevaerts> lirakis: how do you know this is an unmodifire PR1.2 (RC) leak?
May 02 13:03:39 <nid0> what info? the only info thats "on lockdown" is a release date
May 02 13:03:39 <frals> about release dates because its a business decision - id say they are getting pretty open about bugzilla stuff etc
May 02 13:03:43 <frals> gevaerts: they dont
May 02 13:03:49 <squidd> frals: some sacrifices has to be made
May 02 13:03:50 <lirakis> i dont understand what the big deal is... just tell people - yeah .. we are working on features x,y,z and it will be out on blah.  you can d/l nightly builds at ... foo
May 02 13:04:08 <frals> squidd: true, atm it seems worth ignoring the whole chan :<
May 02 13:04:16 <nid0> x,y,z are all clearly visible in the pr1.2 changelog and bugzilla
May 02 13:04:30 <frals> lirakis: you can download the latest builds of all foss code at maemo.gitorious.org
May 02 13:04:36 <nid0> blah cant be given because 1) its still being tested and 2) as frals said, business decision
May 02 13:04:37 * timeless_mbp cries
May 02 13:04:39 <timeless_mbp> hey guys?
May 02 13:04:44 <nid0> foo = maemo.ghitorious.org
May 02 13:04:45 <frals> s/all/most/ maybe
May 02 13:04:48 * lirakis sighs and walks away
May 02 13:04:50 <nid0> -h*
May 02 13:04:58 <frals> sup timeless_mbp
May 02 13:04:59 <timeless_mbp> is there an easy package one can depend on to enforce 'does not install on pre 1.2'?
May 02 13:05:00 <jacekowski> well, thing with nightly builds is that 99% of them don't work
May 02 13:05:06 <Trizt> hi timeless_mbp
May 02 13:05:14 <timeless_mbp> i have a package which will destroy a pre 1.2 system
May 02 13:05:18 <timeless_mbp> hi Trizt
May 02 13:05:19 <frals> timeless_mbp: fremantle-pr >= blabla?
May 02 13:05:27 <timeless_mbp> frals: that's often removed by users
May 02 13:05:50 <gevaerts> timeless_mbp: then your package will reinstall it :)
May 02 13:05:56 <timeless_mbp> gevaerts: nope
May 02 13:06:01 <timeless_mbp> since it isn't generally available
May 02 13:06:08 <timeless_mbp> i can use tablet-browser-controls iirc
May 02 13:06:11 <timeless_mbp> but that's kinda stupid
May 02 13:06:25 <timeless_mbp> Trizt: so um, i think you might have been offered 0.1-8
May 02 13:06:31 <timeless_mbp> if you were, that's unfortunate
May 02 13:06:33 <timeless_mbp> as it's dangerous
May 02 13:06:40 <ShadowJK> also there are different femantle-pr packages on different variants
May 02 13:07:02 <ShadowJK> although a package depending on generic global firmware is a cute idea
May 02 13:07:14 <Jaffa> timeless_mbp: libhildon
May 02 13:07:21 <Jaffa> timeless_mbp: there's also a maemo-version (or something), IIRC
May 02 13:07:46 <timeless_mbp> Jaffa: no packages matching maemo-v*
May 02 13:07:50 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; that one I upgraded to over a week ago if I recall it right
May 02 13:08:35 <timeless_mbp> Jaffa: libhildon1 ?
May 02 13:08:44 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; so what does it break?
May 02 13:09:07 <timeless_mbp> Trizt: so the idiots running the "platform"
May 02 13:09:22 <timeless_mbp> don't understand that you can't randomly change the meaning of a string identifier
May 02 13:09:41 <timeless_mbp> we do things like sprintf(random_string, integer)
May 02 13:09:57 <timeless_mbp> but if the random string in a future version is  "%d %s" instead of "%d"
May 02 13:09:59 <Chiku> tmo thread is closed
May 02 13:10:01 <Trizt> oh, that's a bad thing, you had a sauna party where they decided this?
May 02 13:10:22 <timeless_mbp> Trizt: "thinking" isn't necessary in this group
May 02 13:10:28 <timeless_mbp> so it generally isn't done
May 02 13:11:02 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; sounds like you have the same people working for you as we do
May 02 13:11:20 <ZogG_N900> steve  jobs is suing person that leaked pr1.2 )
May 02 13:11:25 <timeless_mbp> Jaffa: so, <= 2.2.4 means 1.1.1 or older?
May 02 13:11:47 <timeless_mbp> libhildon1 has a much higher version for 1.2
May 02 13:11:47 <javispedro> timeless: "maemo release"
May 02 13:11:49 <Jaffa> timeless_mbp: Yeah, think so.
May 02 13:11:58 <Jaffa> timeless_mbp: 2.2.10 is the 1.2 one
May 02 13:12:08 <javispedro> "maemo-release"
May 02 13:12:21 <Jaffa> javispedro: ta
May 02 13:12:28 <ZogG_N900> maemo release ?
May 02 13:12:29 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: i don't have that package?
May 02 13:12:40 <timeless_mbp> only maemo-ringtone?
May 02 13:12:48 <javispedro> oh, it might be sdk only.
May 02 13:12:56 <timeless_mbp> that's helpful!
May 02 13:13:01 <javispedro> indeed... :P
May 02 13:13:06 <ZogG_N900> btw is maemo sdk in ubuntu repo?
May 02 13:13:19 <timeless_mbp> ?
May 02 13:13:23 <ZogG_N900> and is nokia qt sdk in any repo?
May 02 13:13:30 <timeless_mbp> maemo sdk is partially closed
May 02 13:13:37 <ZogG_N900> so?
May 02 13:14:25 <ZogG_N900> flash is closed and nvidia driver closed a lot of things are closed so what
May 02 13:14:49 <wazd> timeless_mbp: microb is freaking awesome browser :)
May 02 13:14:56 <timeless_mbp> :)
May 02 13:15:04 <wazd> timeless_mbp: just wanted to say this personally :)
May 02 13:15:05 <ZogG_N900> th3hate, israel?
May 02 13:15:16 <timeless_mbp> ZogG: some repositories aren't big fans of hosting closed stuff
May 02 13:17:00 <ZogG_N900> so is it no for sure?
May 02 13:17:02 <javispedro> timeless: seems it's not on device indeed. ideally you should depend on the exact component whose older version causes troubles -- to prevent people like me who have updated libhildon but not rest of the system install it.
May 02 13:18:00 <jacekowski> so what's the problem
May 02 13:18:06 <jacekowski> that's how most people do it
May 02 13:18:14 <jacekowski> depend on specific version or version higher than
May 02 13:18:50 <jacekowski> well, depending on higher than fails very often when somebody makes changes that break api
May 02 13:19:42 <gevaerts> I'd conflict with the older version
May 02 13:20:14 <jacekowski> not really
May 02 13:20:30 <jacekowski> because dependencies would upgrade it
May 02 13:20:33 <massoud> hey there, i am trying to get "mobilehotspot" to work on my n900 to share my 3g connexions but doesn t work
May 02 13:20:44 <massoud> has anyone got this package to work on n900 ?
May 02 13:21:00 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: the problem is that the devs/managers are idiots
May 02 13:21:02 <wazd> timeless_mbp: have you heard bout any Ovi store problems recently?
May 02 13:21:13 <Trizt> massoud; did you reboot your n900 after install of the kernel?
May 02 13:21:14 <timeless_mbp> i'm shipping a localization package that replaces strings for the entire platform
May 02 13:21:20 <timeless_mbp> but i'm not shipping one package per package
May 02 13:21:27 <timeless_mbp> i tried that for the n800/n810, it was hell
May 02 13:21:33 <timeless_mbp> a huge waste of resources
May 02 13:21:43 <timeless_mbp> wazd: perhaps. share?
May 02 13:21:57 <massoud> Trizt: what do you mean ? i didn t install a new kernel, just the mobilehotspot package
May 02 13:22:00 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: i would make something that automaticaly builds subpackages
May 02 13:22:08 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; can't you make the official English instead? so it's a good one from starters?
May 02 13:22:18 <timeless_mbp> Trizt: been there, tried that, 'no'
May 02 13:22:19 <wazd> timeless_mbp: I can't login to ovi from any device or PC righ now
May 02 13:22:19 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: and one metapackage that depends on all subpackages
May 02 13:22:30 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: and each subpackage would depend on specific version
May 02 13:22:36 <wazd> timeless_mbp: it says that authorization service is temporary down
May 02 13:22:38 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: that way leads to madness
May 02 13:22:44 <timeless_mbp> i did it for the n800/n810
May 02 13:22:51 <timeless_mbp> it's a huge amount of overhead
May 02 13:22:54 <Trizt> massoud; for the mobilehotspot requires a different kernel than the default one, and to change kernel you need to reboot
May 02 13:23:00 <timeless_mbp> and it requires actually recognizing when the idiots broke each package
May 02 13:23:05 <timeless_mbp> which might be secret info
May 02 13:23:06 <wazd> timeless: tried from e63, n900 and PC
May 02 13:24:14 <Trizt> wazd; did login with SeaMonkey 2.0.4 without any troubles
May 02 13:24:21 <massoud> Trizt: how should i update my kernel the cleanest way ?
May 02 13:24:28 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: i have code pending which would be able to deal w/ this
May 02 13:24:33 <timeless_mbp> but...
May 02 13:24:45 <massoud> Trizt: I am running "Linux Nokia-N900-42-11 2.6.28-omap" currently
May 02 13:25:04 <Trizt> massoud; install the kernel-power package, reboot the phone after successful install
May 02 13:25:06 <th3hate> yes zogG
May 02 13:27:20 * Trizt hates the following message from ovi files: 'Oops... Your computer isn't set up correctly.'
May 02 13:28:11 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; how do I downgrade to a safe translation?
May 02 13:28:49 <timeless_mbp> Trizt: force install 0.1-7 for now
May 02 13:29:01 <timeless_mbp> i'll have a proper 0.1-7/0.1-8 up in a few mins
May 02 13:29:09 <Trizt> okey
May 02 13:32:54 <squidd> lol
May 02 13:33:01 <squidd> talk.maemo has great admins :P
May 02 13:33:07 <timeless_mbp> ?
May 02 13:33:15 <squidd> closed that pr1.2 topic
May 02 13:33:37 <squidd> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51615&page=74
May 02 13:33:57 <timoph> good
May 02 13:35:32 <Khertan_n900> Hi !
May 02 13:35:39 <sandstorm> what can I do if my system locks up for some reason and I cant access anything in order to soft reset my system such as doing shutdown -h now on terminal ?
May 02 13:35:49 <Khertan_n900> hum maybe change the topics :)
May 02 13:36:11 <squidd> whats wrong in the topic? :O
May 02 13:36:23 <Khertan_n900> no pr1.2 yet
May 02 13:36:39 <squidd> I suppose thats still true?
May 02 13:36:44 <Khertan_n900> should be : no official pr1.2 yet
May 02 13:36:59 <Khertan_n900> :)
May 02 13:37:13 <squidd> theres only RC I think
May 02 13:37:28 <Khertan_n900> yep a leak :)
May 02 13:37:43 <Khertan_n900> or maybe a hk version
May 02 13:37:43 <squidd> yes, so topic still correct :)
May 02 13:38:01 <Khertan_n900> don t know i didnt download ...
May 02 13:38:19 <Khertan_n900> it s maybe not an rc
May 02 13:38:22 <Khertan_n900> :)
May 02 13:38:56 <ZogG_N900> th3hate me too
May 02 13:39:00 <squidd> Nokia will release it tuesday. Now that its out in the open anyways theres no reason to hold it back
May 02 13:39:02 <mikki-kun> sandstorm: by holding the power button you force a shutdown -h NOW afair... or does it just turn of the device? dunno anymore
May 02 13:39:38 <sandstorm> mikki-kun: I've tried that holding it down for like 15 or more seconds but it only turned off the screen
May 02 13:39:55 <ZogG_N900> squidd will release RC or release?
May 02 13:39:56 <Termana> how about you pull your battery out? :P Its not an iPhone
May 02 13:40:05 <sandstorm> mikki-kun: after I release and re-press it it turned on the screen just as it was
May 02 13:40:13 <ZogG_N900> termana good one
May 02 13:40:14 <ZogG_N900> )
May 02 13:40:15 <mikki-kun> Ö.ö that's odd
May 02 13:40:19 <sandstorm> mikki-kun: did not reboot or shutdown the system
May 02 13:40:25 <sandstorm> agreed
May 02 13:40:45 <mikki-kun> if it still won't turn off use some C4
May 02 13:40:58 <ZogG_N900> use terminal
May 02 13:41:34 <ZogG_N900> mikki meh TNT FTW
May 02 13:41:45 <Termana> ZogG_N900, didn't you hear him, his phone is already terminal - it won't turn off! Oh you meant, the terminal on the phone... :P
May 02 13:41:54 <vanadismobile> just buy a new one...
May 02 13:42:09 <mikki-kun> ZogG_N900: but TNT is old... and afaik C4 is stronger
May 02 13:42:16 <sandstorm> mikki-kun: :|
May 02 13:42:23 <sandstorm> I cant use terminal
May 02 13:42:27 <sandstorm> cuz it does not let me access
May 02 13:42:29 <sandstorm> terminal
May 02 13:42:31 <sandstorm> its locked up
May 02 13:42:34 <Termana> sandstorm, seriously, why not just pull the battery?
May 02 13:42:51 <sandstorm> that's the trick but
May 02 13:42:59 <sandstorm> if I had the chance to access terminal
May 02 13:43:03 <sandstorm> it wont be necessary
May 02 13:43:09 <mikki-kun> Ctrl+Shift+x could maybe give you on
May 02 13:43:10 <mikki-kun> *one
May 02 13:43:25 <sandstorm> hmmm
May 02 13:43:28 <sandstorm> I did not know that
May 02 13:43:29 <Termana> sandstorm, what about ssh?
May 02 13:43:30 <sandstorm> shortcut
May 02 13:43:33 <sandstorm> hmm ssh
May 02 13:43:35 <sandstorm> wonderful idea
May 02 13:43:39 <ZogG_N900> mikki depends
May 02 13:43:39 <sandstorm> I will try that next time
May 02 13:43:53 <sandstorm> but unfortunately I had not installed openssh before it locked up
May 02 13:44:02 * ccooke wonders how many people installed the leaked pr1.2
May 02 13:44:04 <ZogG_N900> not sure if c4 stronger than tnt
May 02 13:44:32 <ZogG_N900> i had blowed up tnt
May 02 13:44:36 <mikki-kun> ZogG_N900: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-4_(explosive)
May 02 13:45:00 <sandstorm> thanks for brilliant ideas
May 02 13:45:04 <sandstorm> I need to go off now
May 02 13:45:12 <Termana> It depends really on how badly its locking up. If its a really bad lock, you have no choice but to hard restart, because it won't respond at all to ssh etc. Otherwise something like ssh should be fine.
May 02 13:45:32 * Khertan_n900 didn't but will wait a bit to know if there is a update this week
May 02 13:45:52 <mikki-kun> ccooke: i wonder how many fried their n900 due to that leaked version :D
May 02 13:45:57 * Khertan_n900 didn't install the leaked but will wait a bit to know if there is a update this week
May 02 13:45:58 <Mace_N900> damn it kind of sucks i need to keep my phone open to use my bt keyboard correctly
May 02 13:46:03 <Gilly>  
May 02 13:46:03 <Gilly>     *
May 02 13:46:05 <Mace_N900> the enter key doesnt work when i close it
May 02 13:46:06 <ZogG_N900> why would anyone fry it?
May 02 13:46:20 <Gilly> oops, sorry for that... misclick
May 02 13:46:40 <ccooke> mikki-kun: Probably? Very, very few. But that doesn't mean *I* am going to install it :-)
May 02 13:46:40 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, mind taking down the file off your server?
May 02 13:46:41 <mikki-kun> ZogG_N900: i read a few lines up here in this channel it should also have the OC-feature integrated...
May 02 13:46:51 <jacekowski> why?
May 02 13:47:09 <massoud> Trizt: once kernel-power is installed, i need to upgrade my kernel after reboot ?
May 02 13:47:19 <Mace_N900> ugh
May 02 13:47:22 * Trizt nods
May 02 13:47:39 <Mace_N900> at least everything on it seems to work other than the enter key
May 02 13:47:48 <Mace_N900> but it sucks so bad that i need to keep the phoe open for it heh
May 02 13:48:01 <Mace_N900> ah well. let me try out openoffice with this
May 02 13:48:12 <ccooke> Mace_N900: what do you mean "keep the phone open"?
May 02 13:48:32 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, cause it was taken down from tmo
May 02 13:48:34 <Mace_N900> i mean i need to have the hw keyboard exposed and the phoe open
May 02 13:48:35 <ZogG_N900> mikki i wouldn't try it anyway till it's out
May 02 13:48:38 <ccooke> the phon app? the hardware keyboard out?
May 02 13:48:42 <Mace_N900> when i am using my su8w
May 02 13:48:46 <Arkenoi> i really hate that almost all the time my phone does *something*. tracker-indexer, as-daemon, intellisyncd, modest, just every 5 minutes some fucking heavy io application wakes up and makes ui non-responsive, video player jerky, etc etc
May 02 13:48:47 <mikki-kun> Mace_N900: the "return" key on the n900 has the funtion "Kb_RTRN" or something like that... maybe that leads to some "problems" inside the system
May 02 13:49:00 <ccooke> ... you need the hw keyboard out *and* the phone app running?
May 02 13:49:02 <mikki-kun> ZogG_N900: neither would i ;)
May 02 13:49:08 <Mace_N900> mikki-kun: maybe.. i dont know where to fix that though
May 02 13:49:13 <ZogG_N900> hope it's really out tuesday as it's my bday
May 02 13:49:18 <Mace_N900> i suppose i can try to find the keymap and change it
May 02 13:49:25 <Arkenoi> i wonder what does as-daemon do for 15 minutes eating 100% cpu
May 02 13:49:41 <Mace_N900> to use my su8w i need to run a script
May 02 13:49:43 <Arkenoi> and performing io all the time as well
May 02 13:49:48 <mikki-kun> Mace_N900: but i am not sure what happens if you change that to just "RETURN"...
May 02 13:49:49 <ZogG_N900> arkenoi u have the answer in question
May 02 13:49:55 <Mace_N900> in order to change the keymaps because it won´t work right out hte box
May 02 13:50:03 <ZogG_N900> it eats your cpu that's what it is doing
May 02 13:50:10 <Arkenoi> fuck!
May 02 13:50:12 <Mace_N900> mikki-kun: well. i have to find out ;)
May 02 13:50:23 <Mace_N900> because leaving the kb open is kind of a crappy solution
May 02 13:50:30 <mikki-kun> if return works fine please let me know...
May 02 13:50:34 <Mace_N900> i mean i can deal with it but i still wish i could close it
May 02 13:50:48 <ZogG_N900> who is using n900 to chat here right now say hooray
May 02 13:50:48 <Arkenoi> it sucks
May 02 13:51:03 <Mace_N900> other than that though.. the bt keyboard works like a champ
May 02 13:51:06 <Mace_N900> i´m using it right now
May 02 13:51:29 <mikki-kun> i think i
May 02 13:51:32 <Mace_N900> i´m about to try it out in openoffice in easydeb and see how it works out
May 02 13:51:41 <ZogG_N900> mace out of box?
May 02 13:51:45 <mikki-kun> i think i need to try a speedtyping once on the N900s keyboard
May 02 13:51:55 <Mace_N900> ZogG: no. i had to edit the bt config file
May 02 13:51:58 <Mace_N900> and enable hid
May 02 13:52:08 <mikki-kun> Mace_N900: openoffice on the n900?!
May 02 13:52:11 <Mace_N900> then set the keymap with a file i had to download for the special keys
May 02 13:52:16 <mikki-kun> you mean via SSH -Y right?
May 02 13:52:17 <Mace_N900> mikki-kun: yeah. it comes with easydeb
May 02 13:52:24 <ZogG_N900> actually don't think i need extra keybord
May 02 13:52:25 <Mace_N900> no. i mean in the debian chroot
May 02 13:52:29 <Mace_N900> on the phone itself
May 02 13:52:42 <mikki-kun> ohhh... well, i didn't install easydeb
May 02 13:52:44 <ZogG_N900> as it loses all the point of small sizes and mobility
May 02 13:52:50 <Mace_N900> mikki-kun: it works pretty well
May 02 13:52:58 <Mace_N900> but i need to really test it out
May 02 13:53:07 <Mace_N900> i was hoping i could figure out how to get cups going and print straight off the phone
May 02 13:53:10 <Mace_N900> that would be awesome
May 02 13:53:10 <mikki-kun> how fast is OOO on the n900?
May 02 13:53:13 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: well, i've taken it down, but i don't think it was illegal
May 02 13:53:24 <jacekowski> mikki-kun: slow
May 02 13:53:25 <Mace_N900> mikki-kun: it´s not too bad
May 02 13:53:32 <Mace_N900> a little slower but useable
May 02 13:53:42 <jacekowski> ooo is slow by itself
May 02 13:53:45 <mikki-kun> jacekowski: would you recommend using ssh then therefire?
May 02 13:53:46 <Mace_N900> yeah heh
May 02 13:53:47 <ZogG_N900> jacekowski is a leak ? )
May 02 13:53:49 <Treibholz> OOo is slow on any hardware.
May 02 13:54:05 <ZogG_N900> not true
May 02 13:54:12 <Mace_N900> i used to run ooffice on my 350Mhz ppc
May 02 13:54:19 <mikki-kun> well, OOo does work nice on my gentoo-box here
May 02 13:54:19 <jacekowski> yeah
May 02 13:54:21 <Mace_N900> it runs better than that ;)
May 02 13:54:24 <ZogG_N900> it works pretty fine for me
May 02 13:54:25 <jacekowski> it took like 30 minutes to start
May 02 13:54:32 <Mace_N900> haha
May 02 13:54:34 <ZogG_N900> mikki same thing
May 02 13:54:37 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, it was, and is illegal, which is why they ask for IMEIs on tablets-dev
May 02 13:54:43 <ZogG_N900> mikki bin or compiled?
May 02 13:54:44 <Mace_N900> it took like a minute to start on my phone
May 02 13:55:11 <Mace_N900> anyways tho.. i need to figure out where the hell this mapping is when theh phone is closed so i can change it
May 02 13:55:15 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: have you noticed that that license on tablets-dev only applies to older firmware
May 02 13:55:19 <mikki-kun> ZogG_N900: i was told that it shouldn't matter that much, but i compiled it... +10hours on a atom n280 XD
May 02 13:55:24 <Mace_N900> i hate having to leave my phone open in my su8w mount
May 02 13:55:36 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: yes, and when you compile it in winter, you can turn down the radiator!
May 02 13:55:36 <ZogG_N900> mikki u are crazy
May 02 13:55:48 <Mace_N900> it looks kind of retarded :) i just hope they address using a  bt keyboard in a next release or something
May 02 13:55:49 <ZogG_N900> mikki try to compile chromium
May 02 13:55:55 <Mace_N900> and have good support for bt keyboards
May 02 13:56:05 <Mace_N900> and have a working koffice that runs native heh
May 02 13:56:19 <ZogG_N900> so does nokia find leak?
May 02 13:56:20 <mikki-kun> ZogG_N900: chromium?! Ö.ö never... either conkeror or uzbl
May 02 13:56:32 <ZogG_N900> konquer*
May 02 13:56:45 <ZogG_N900> mikki just try. it takes forever
May 02 13:56:56 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, does it really matter :)
May 02 13:56:59 <mikki-kun> Treibholz: sadly i can't... i am currently located in thailand... there it won't matter if it's either summer or winter
May 02 13:57:26 <Mace_N900> konqueror seems to forever suck
May 02 13:57:32 <Mace_N900> it reminds me of opera :)
May 02 13:57:41 <mikki-kun> ZogG_N900: you'll be willing to delete then every config-file by yourself which is left? ;) :D
May 02 13:57:49 <ZogG_N900> opera once was browser of my choice
May 02 13:58:07 <mikki-kun> i am talking about conkeror, not konkeror
May 02 13:58:15 <Mace_N900> ZogG: mine too in like 1993
May 02 13:58:26 <jacekowski> i'm using opera
May 02 13:58:31 <mikki-kun> conkeror is a gecko-based browser which uses emacs-style keybindings for surfing
May 02 13:58:40 <jacekowski> it's fastest and least bloated browser at the moment
May 02 13:58:40 <Mace_N900> opera for android isn´t too bad
May 02 13:58:58 <Mace_N900> it kind of reminds me of microb on the n900
May 02 13:58:59 <mikki-kun> jacekowski: have you ever heard of surf? that is a minimalistic browser
May 02 13:59:08 <Mace_N900> just not as functional
May 02 13:59:09 <jacekowski> mikki-kun: but it's useless as well
May 02 13:59:33 <mikki-kun> jacekowski: well, for surfing just enough ^^
May 02 13:59:48 <mikki-kun> i myself have conkeror/uzbl running...
May 02 14:00:12 <mikki-kun> would love getting uzbl on the n900
May 02 14:00:19 <massoud> how do i install the new kernel once kernel-power is installed ?
May 02 14:00:34 <Mace_N900> ah well.. let me look on the forums and see if i can find out where the keymap is for when the phone is closed so i can get this thing to work right
May 02 14:01:00 <Mace_N900> like i said.. it works fine other than having to keep the phone open .. it´s more of a cosmetic thing that is irritating me
May 02 14:02:17 <ZogG_N900> there are a lot new things that came from opera
May 02 14:02:42 <mikki-kun> Mace_N900: http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard that will probably be what you are looking for
May 02 14:03:02 <Mace_N900> mikki-kun: ok. thanks
May 02 14:03:07 <Mace_N900> i will check it out right now
May 02 14:03:36 <Mace_N900> i just disconnected it.. back to slow typing heh
May 02 14:03:57 <mikki-kun> and here another site which can be really helpful :) http://natisbad.org/N900/n900-keyboard-remapping.html
May 02 14:05:03 <Mace_N900> but do not place the copy in the nokia_vndr folder or it will stop your phone from booting.
May 02 14:05:05 <Mace_N900> heh
May 02 14:06:11 <Mace_N900> ok. i bookmarked them.. once i get the chance i will go ahead and start working on it
May 02 14:06:42 <Mace_N900> hopefully someone is working on getting this working out the box especially with the advent of the koffice project
May 02 14:06:55 <mikki-kun> have fun with it :) btw, which keyboard-layout are you using?
May 02 14:07:06 <Mace_N900> the su8w one
May 02 14:07:20 <mikki-kun> Ö.ö how does that look?
May 02 14:07:39 <Mace_N900> i got it from a forum. i didnt really look at it
May 02 14:07:46 <Mace_N900> i have to soon
May 02 14:07:54 <mikki-kun> do you have a link?
May 02 14:08:03 <Mace_N900> the kb mapping changes when the phone is closed tho
May 02 14:08:12 <Mace_N900> one sec.. i will find it...
May 02 14:08:56 <mikki-kun> ahhhh, i meant by layout if you either are using qwertz or qwerty or something else ;)
May 02 14:11:10 <Mace_N900> http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Bluetooth_Keyboard_Layout
May 02 14:11:16 <mikki-kun> but it looks nice :) just not something if you are really walking
May 02 14:11:47 <Mace_N900> haha.. i wouldnt use it to walk and type
May 02 14:12:11 <Mace_N900> i want to use it for koffice or openoffice or irc on the phone when im stationary
May 02 14:12:40 <Mace_N900> it is a lot better to just have a phone and keyboard in your pockets than a netbook or laptop in a bag
May 02 14:13:17 <Mace_N900> the su8w is the size of an opened n900
May 02 14:14:30 <Mace_N900> it was awesome on my n95.. i typed whole term papers on it in quickoffice
May 02 14:15:16 <mikki-kun> hm, i think i need a small keyboard as well
May 02 14:15:34 <mikki-kun> for worst-case szenario like when my netbook dies ^^
May 02 14:15:37 <Mace_N900> i am willing to bet all i have to do is edit the su8w keymap and change the return/enter mapping
May 02 14:15:58 <Mace_N900> since the xkb command seems to go by keyboard choice
May 02 14:16:33 <mikki-kun> hm, are you actually using irssi on the n900?
May 02 14:17:19 <trumee> what happened to that pr 1.2 leak thread on tmo?
May 02 14:17:36 <trumee> was it deleted?
May 02 14:17:42 <|R> pouf
May 02 14:18:01 <jacekowski> closed
May 02 14:18:23 <jacekowski> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51615&page=74
May 02 14:18:26 <mikki-kun> a generall question regarding irssi on the n900... is "script"support there removed?
May 02 14:18:46 <Mace_N900> does tmo even sell n900s?
May 02 14:18:56 <jacekowski> Mace_N900: yes
May 02 14:19:01 <MohammadAG> trumee, yes, they missed a link, I reported, it got deleted in 4 minutes
May 02 14:19:02 <jacekowski> Mace_N900: i have tmobile n900
May 02 14:19:10 <jacekowski> Mace_N900: but he's talking about different tmo
May 02 14:19:15 <jacekowski> Mace_N900: talk.maemo.org
May 02 14:19:16 <Mace_N900> oh
May 02 14:19:19 <Mace_N900> heh
May 02 14:19:34 <Mace_N900> do they lock it?
May 02 14:19:46 <Mace_N900> i didnt even know they sold them
May 02 14:19:49 <jacekowski> mikki-kun: it would need perl in dependencies to have scrit support
May 02 14:20:02 <Mace_N900> but then again... i didnt want to give up my android data plan
May 02 14:20:04 <jacekowski> Mace_N900: they were 2nd to sell them in uk
May 02 14:20:07 <mikki-kun> uhm... no perl on the n900?
May 02 14:20:19 <Mace_N900> they would probably find a way to charge you more for an n900
May 02 14:20:21 <jacekowski> mikki-kun: there is other package with perl
May 02 14:20:36 <jacekowski> Mace_N900: i'm on t-mobile and i'm happy
May 02 14:20:47 <jacekowski> ( maybe because i'm still using my old o2 plan )
May 02 14:20:48 <Mace_N900> so i just bought mine from dell
May 02 14:20:55 <mikki-kun> jacekowski: but would that give irssi perl-support?
May 02 14:21:00 <Mace_N900> yeah haha. see what i mean?
May 02 14:21:01 <trumee> ah crap. that thread was fun as long as it lasted. now back to boring speculation thread again :(
May 02 14:21:16 <Mace_N900> i bet if i told them i wanted to use an n900 my bill would double
May 02 14:21:20 <jacekowski> Mace_N900: my sister is using t-mobile plan with iphone i gave her
May 02 14:21:26 <jacekowski> Mace_N900: and she's happy
May 02 14:21:44 <mikki-kun> with the iphone or the t-mob plan?
May 02 14:21:49 <Mace_N900> they think i am still using a g1
May 02 14:21:53 <jacekowski> both
May 02 14:22:05 <jacekowski> and she's watching youtube on it 24/7
May 02 14:22:05 <Mace_N900> no 3G on tmobile tho
May 02 14:22:12 <jacekowski> eee?
May 02 14:22:22 <jacekowski> do you live in middle of nowhere?
May 02 14:22:28 <Mace_N900> er...
May 02 14:22:33 <frals> o/ lcuk
May 02 14:22:45 <Mace_N900> iphones dont support the tmob 3g freq
May 02 14:22:57 <jacekowski> i think you are talking about different t-mobile
May 02 14:23:07 <Mace_N900> no.. im not
May 02 14:23:10 <lcuk> hey frals
May 02 14:23:17 <frals> hows you?
May 02 14:23:20 <lcuk> have you seen ossipena's vertsms app
May 02 14:23:31 <Mace_N900> i have t-mobile. iphones dont use the 1900 freq
May 02 14:23:34 <Mace_N900> er
May 02 14:23:37 <Mace_N900> 1700
May 02 14:23:38 <jacekowski> t-mobile UK?
May 02 14:23:41 <frals> lcuk: nope
May 02 14:23:43 <Mace_N900> oh.. no
May 02 14:23:46 <Mace_N900> Us
May 02 14:23:56 <Mace_N900> US... im in chicago
May 02 14:24:06 * ptl not using PR1.2
May 02 14:24:11 <Mace_N900> tmobile uses 1900 in the uk?
May 02 14:24:40 <lcuk> frals, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51635  nice start
May 02 14:24:43 <noobmonk3y> w00t_, any idea why qt4.6 seems to now handle windows slightly differently - just testing and what worked in 1.1.1, and made the windows stackable, no longer work :|
May 02 14:24:47 <frals> lcuk: just found it, looks good
May 02 14:24:51 <Mace_N900> iphones here will only go 2G on tmob.. the same for n900s on att
May 02 14:25:00 <noobmonk3y> lcuk, that vertsms app looks pretty good :D
May 02 14:25:01 <lcuk> needs work, but like your app will give people choice
May 02 14:25:21 * lcuk likes developers in the maemo community :)
May 02 14:25:29 * noobmonk3y giggles
May 02 14:25:38 <Khertan_n900> i didn't like the ui ... but it ll give user choice
May 02 14:25:41 <Mace_N900> anyways. my son should be waking up soon
May 02 14:25:50 <lcuk> Khertan_n900, of course its a prototype
May 02 14:25:56 <Mace_N900> and it is raining so he is going to be stir crazy heh
May 02 14:25:58 <frals> naming functions in native language instead of english >_<
May 02 14:25:58 <lcuk> he took the ball and started something
May 02 14:26:06 <Khertan_n900> of course ... but i prefer landscape mode
May 02 14:26:14 <lcuk> hiya noobmonk3y yeah
May 02 14:26:16 <Khertan_n900> and vert is the main purpose :)
May 02 14:26:22 <lcuk> and you are fully catered for Khertan_n900
May 02 14:26:34 <Khertan_n900> gnagnagna :)
May 02 14:26:40 <Mace_N900> Khertan, profile ftw!
May 02 14:26:40 <lcuk> im not a portrait texter either
May 02 14:26:42 <lcuk> but i know tracy is
May 02 14:26:46 * Mace_N900 hides
May 02 14:26:51 <noobmonk3y> :P
May 02 14:26:55 <Khertan_n900> :)
May 02 14:27:16 <Mace_N900> haha... it is a phone... portrait is good for quick stuff
May 02 14:27:33 <jacekowski> iphone like sms app would be nice
May 02 14:27:36 <Mace_N900> and the fact i have to twist my arm to read txts and IMs...
May 02 14:27:41 <lcuk> one of my mates has made a dock for his 900
May 02 14:27:46 <Mace_N900> that seems kind of odd
May 02 14:27:52 <lcuk> when its charging its upsidefudgingdown tho
May 02 14:28:09 <Mace_N900> instead of being able to glance at it in a natural arm position
May 02 14:28:30 <lcuk> its a natural position for anyone who is a regular n8x0 user
May 02 14:28:49 <Khertan_n900> yep just a matter of preference :)
May 02 14:28:50 <lcuk> or anyone with hardware keyboard mobile device experience
May 02 14:28:55 <Mace_N900> lcuk, yeah but i didnt keep my n8x0 in my pocket as much
May 02 14:29:09 <lcuk> Mace_N900, of course
May 02 14:29:13 <Mace_N900> when you grab the n900 out the pocket...
May 02 14:29:20 <Mace_N900> to read an im or txt
May 02 14:29:30 <lcuk> its one swift motion to slide the keyboard open and answer person
May 02 14:29:33 <Mace_N900> you have to rotate your whole arm to read it
May 02 14:29:44 <Mace_N900> heh
May 02 14:29:48 <lcuk> problem with onscreen sms for me is that you wont see the conversation yet
May 02 14:29:59 <Khertan_n900> :)
May 02 14:30:03 <lcuk> that will be something shall have to try and make work
May 02 14:30:04 <Khertan_n900> exactly
May 02 14:30:15 <Mace_N900> you have to go through too many motions to read a txt
May 02 14:30:18 <lcuk> i bet its feasible to show at least the last couple of lines
May 02 14:30:29 <lcuk> but thats ui/ux work
May 02 14:30:29 <Mace_N900> instead of just pulling the phone out the pocket and reading
May 02 14:30:30 <frals> those things are pretty easy to add
May 02 14:30:37 * lcuk pokes aSIMULAtor 
May 02 14:30:41 <lcuk> yeah frals
May 02 14:31:08 <lcuk> next important one (and something i noted on the thread) is getting abc's onto the mini keypad
May 02 14:31:12 <lcuk> and ensuring its translatable
May 02 14:31:14 <Mace_N900> looking at the clock too.. brain cycles are lost deciphering a sideways clock
May 02 14:31:20 <Mace_N900> :)
May 02 14:31:20 <frals> need to bookmark that thread
May 02 14:31:27 <lcuk> +1 Mace_N900
May 02 14:31:29 <frals> and sort this apn issue in fmms so i have time to look at other projects
May 02 14:31:58 <Mace_N900> music players as well
May 02 14:32:18 <Mace_N900> jack on the bottom of the phone...
May 02 14:32:31 <noobmonk3y> lcuk, question for you.... is there a chance that a developer can have an app working on PR1.1.1 and below, fine... but needs to create a separate version that runs on PR 1.2 and above... therefore forking projects?
May 02 14:32:32 <jacekowski> it's not a bottom
May 02 14:32:33 <jacekowski> it's side
May 02 14:32:45 <Mace_N900> portrait mode is more natural
May 02 14:32:50 <jacekowski> no
May 02 14:32:51 <Mace_N900> i jud
May 02 14:32:51 <noobmonk3y> (Allthough realistically, everyone should upgrade anyway)
May 02 14:33:02 <jacekowski> portrait mode is what people are used to
May 02 14:33:10 <Mece> cheers
May 02 14:33:14 <lcuk> noobmonk3y, pr1.2 is not up for discussion by myself today and if the little flashing PM boxes dont stop ill go again :)
May 02 14:33:19 <Mace_N900> i consider the side you put to your mouth the bottom of a PHONE
May 02 14:33:20 <Chiku> what fiasco ?
May 02 14:33:23 <Mace_N900> :)
May 02 14:33:26 <lcuk> *not from you )
May 02 14:33:39 <frals> noobmonk3y: afaik there is separate 'extras' for pr1.2
May 02 14:33:42 <frals> or did they remove that?
May 02 14:33:58 <Mace_N900> either way.. in a pocket it is more natural in portrait
May 02 14:34:00 <Khertan_n900> Mace_n900 and when you use headphone ?
May 02 14:34:09 <Chiku> does PR1.1.1 is FIASCO?
May 02 14:34:13 <noobmonk3y> frals,  really? freaky deaky
May 02 14:34:13 <Mece> frals, I believe they are supposed to merge once pr1.2 is out.
May 02 14:34:20 <Mace_N900> considering the wire in the jack gets in the way
May 02 14:34:27 <Mace_N900> of holding the phone
May 02 14:34:42 <Mace_N900> while it's on the side :-P
May 02 14:34:58 <Mece> hey what's the current RC version btw? 16-8?
May 02 14:35:05 <frals> noobmonk3y: do you have anything specific in mind? because you shouldnt be needing to fork the project to maintain a different compability imo
May 02 14:35:23 <noobmonk3y> well... stacked windows = different in qt 4.6 onwards
May 02 14:35:32 <noobmonk3y> so basically healthcheck fooks up
May 02 14:35:35 <Khertan_n900> hum ....
May 02 14:35:45 <jacekowski> you just have to add loads of #ifdef's
May 02 14:35:46 <Mece> noobmonk3y, is it. different how?
May 02 14:36:10 <noobmonk3y> "Maemo 5 Stacked Windows are support by setting the Qt::WA_Maemo5StackedWindow widget attribute on all top-level windows that should be part of the stack. The root window should not have a parent, while all other windows in the stack should have their predecessor in the stack set as their parent (do not forget to use the Qt::Window widget flag, if you are not using QMainWindow derived classes)."
May 02 14:36:13 <Khertan_n900> jacekowski : python interpreter : syntax error
May 02 14:36:24 <noobmonk3y> i'm trying to translate that into english so i can understand it lol
May 02 14:36:28 <frals> noobmonk3y: the easy workaround is to make a check which version its running under and then adjust the method calls accordingly
May 02 14:36:39 <Khertan_n900> translate to python after :)
May 02 14:36:39 <Mace_N900> hahaha
May 02 14:36:54 <noobmonk3y> attila posted this though "Stacking changed in Qt4.6 (and thus in PyQt), it’s no longer regulated by parent relations, but by an attribute (similar to the orientation stuff in my example), see http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qt-maemo-4.6...edwindows.html"
May 02 14:36:58 <Mece> noobmonk3y, how is it done in 1.1.1 then?
May 02 14:37:12 <jacekowski> Khertan_n900: one of the reasons why i think python should be banned
May 02 14:37:20 <Khertan_n900> LOL
May 02 14:37:35 <frals> im with khertan on that one, lol.
May 02 14:37:42 <noobmonk3y> mece - if i knew both answers well enough i probably wont have an issue but currently i just call stackablewin = theMainWindow(MainWindow)
May 02 14:37:44 <Mece> jacekowski, you insulted him so he left..
May 02 14:37:52 <Khertan_n900> hum ban qt too
May 02 14:37:57 <Mece> lol
May 02 14:38:02 <mikki-kun> hm, is there actually a possibilty to add a small infobox showing which contact comes on and off in skype or any other service which can be monitored?
May 02 14:38:03 <noobmonk3y> frals, meh - screw people who dont upgrade i say
May 02 14:38:18 * noobmonk3y will get some extra trouts in for noob slappings......
May 02 14:38:25 <Mece> noobmonk3y, agreed.
May 02 14:38:48 <Khertan_n900> and ban the guy which port xchat and put that close box without asking
May 02 14:38:54 <noobmonk3y> ?
May 02 14:39:05 <Mece> noobmonk3y, it would automagically be fixed in dependencies.. or unfixed or whatevrr.
May 02 14:39:06 <lcuk> lol Khertan_n900 you mean on the channel bar?
May 02 14:39:10 <Khertan_n900> if you really want to quit
May 02 14:39:11 <lcuk> i click it often too!
May 02 14:39:21 * frals looks over at RST38h
May 02 14:39:22 <MohammadAG_> ban Ubuntu 10.04 while you're at it, it sucks
May 02 14:39:23 <lcuk> but xchat on 900 does ask
May 02 14:39:29 <noobmonk3y> mece - testing on leaky version = failed healthcheck...
May 02 14:39:30 <Khertan_n900> now i mean on the task switcher
May 02 14:40:00 <Khertan_n900> MohammadAG_ 10.04 works well
May 02 14:40:01 <Mece> noobmonk3y, so get fixin'
May 02 14:40:05 <noobmonk3y> so if i create a new way of doing it i will bugger up 1.1.1 version
May 02 14:40:24 <lcuk> Khertan_n900, it asks "Are you sure you want to quit"  "Minimize/cancel/quit" and a check box to "Don't ask next time"
May 02 14:40:27 <Khertan_n900> noobmonk3y the power of qt ... :)
May 02 14:40:30 <lcuk> im betting you ticked the checkbox once
May 02 14:40:33 <noobmonk3y> lol Khertan
May 02 14:40:41 <Khertan_n900> lcuk: never see it
May 02 14:40:53 <MohammadAG_> Khertan_n900, do you use XChat on it?
May 02 14:40:54 <lcuk> well no, after you tick the button once it doesnt ask
May 02 14:40:57 <Mece> noobmonk3y, is it a fundamentally different approach then, or just need to change that one line?
May 02 14:41:21 <phellarv> Anyone tried PR1.2 yet?
May 02 14:41:23 <MohammadAG_> apparently xchat crashes gtk, which needs a reboot to fix (even kill -9 doesn't work)
May 02 14:41:32 <Mece> Khertan_n900, same here.
May 02 14:41:41 <MohammadAG_> phellarv, topic
May 02 14:42:01 <Mece> phellarv, I guess a lot of people tried the old leaked version.
May 02 14:42:09 <Chiku> old?
May 02 14:42:14 <Chiku> there is new one?
May 02 14:42:20 <Khertan_n900> MohammadAG_ i use xchat on n900 and on ubuntu 10.04
May 02 14:42:22 <MohammadAG_> 4 weeks old
May 02 14:42:27 <Khertan_n900> no problem with it
May 02 14:42:31 <phellarv> Sorry - didn't see the last part of the topic
May 02 14:42:37 <MohammadAG_> Khertan_n900, X64?
May 02 14:42:38 <lcuk> Khertan_n900, http://liqbase.net/Screenshot-20100502-154125.png
May 02 14:42:38 <noobmonk3y> Mece,  not sure yet, will let you know when i figure out how to fix it ;)
May 02 14:42:45 <Mece> chiku, well, it's 12-9, and current is 16-8 i hear.
May 02 14:42:57 <Mece> chiku, so yeah, old.
May 02 14:42:57 <Khertan_n900> MohammadAg x64 and i32
May 02 14:43:04 <noobmonk3y> personally i kinda like the leahed version - for dev testing - will reflash back to 1.1.1 later :D
May 02 14:43:05 <MohammadAG_> lcuk, looks like he ticked the box :P
May 02 14:43:08 <noobmonk3y> leaked*
May 02 14:43:09 <Chiku> so there is new one but not released yet?
May 02 14:43:16 <MohammadAG_> Khertan_n900, no idea, it just crashes, and I'm not the only one
May 02 14:43:27 <lcuk> yeah MohammadAG_
May 02 14:43:38 <Mece> chiku, no pr1.2 is released. an old version is leaked.
May 02 14:44:12 <Khertan_n900> lcuk: fake !
May 02 14:44:13 <mikki-kun> which tools would you actually recommend installing on the n900? i know, sounds like a general question, but maybe i missed a few of them
May 02 14:44:14 <Khertan_n900> :)
May 02 14:44:15 <Chiku> 16-8 leak one would be good :)
May 02 14:44:20 <lcuk> Khertan_n900, ?
May 02 14:44:22 <MohammadAG_> lol
May 02 14:44:35 <lcuk> why would i fake something in 10 seconds that occurs everytime i use it
May 02 14:44:35 <Mece> mikki-kun, what do you intend to do?
May 02 14:44:42 <lcuk> what does anoy me is the layout of those buttons
May 02 14:44:50 <lcuk> its not finger friendly and minimize goes nowhere
May 02 14:44:55 <Khertan_n900> because i m kindding you
May 02 14:45:04 <lcuk> but i dont complain about little things usually :)
May 02 14:45:04 <chem|st> damn hell... 1.5h into deleting posts now grml
May 02 14:45:10 <mikki-kun> well, maybe have a more complete n900... i think i am a lil too minimalistic... though i already used 165MB of the rootfs
May 02 14:45:18 <Mece> chiku, well that depends if it turns out its good. but then it wont be leaked because it will be released.
May 02 14:45:19 <Jaffa> chem|st: :-/
May 02 14:45:22 <MohammadAG_> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=638463#post638463 meh, flaming
May 02 14:45:32 <lcuk> mikki-kun, healthcheck
May 02 14:45:35 <chem|st> Jaffa: it sucks...
May 02 14:45:53 <mikki-kun> lcuk: what exactly does it do besides checking your hardware?
May 02 14:45:57 <Jaffa> chem|st: Any grumbling started yet?
May 02 14:46:09 <lcuk> mikki-kun, increase your girth
May 02 14:46:15 <Mece> chem|st, deleting links ?
May 02 14:46:26 * noobmonk3y waves at mikki-kun - healthcheck rocks! but i'm a bit biased ;)
May 02 14:46:27 <chem|st> Jaffa: not yet
May 02 14:46:29 <lcuk> mikki-kun, its just a little app
May 02 14:46:39 <nid0> healthcheck suxxx!one
May 02 14:46:43 <noobmonk3y> lol nido
May 02 14:46:47 <chem|st> Mece: yes and pictures and fights and rant and noise and...
May 02 14:46:50 * frals trouts noobmonk3y with a salmon
May 02 14:47:08 * lcuk noobmonk3ys frals trout a with
May 02 14:47:18 * noobmonk3y giggles
May 02 14:47:29 <Mece> chem|st, don't delete it all, there was a lot of fun idiocracy in that thread!
May 02 14:47:39 <chem|st> those ppl are not aware of that nokia sits next to the powercord of the hosting server...
May 02 14:47:41 * frals giggles lcuk with a noobmonk3y
May 02 14:47:42 <nid0> people doing that always remind me of robin hood
May 02 14:47:58 <mikki-kun> WTF?! i just stopped a reboot of a windows-machine... it took the persons box 5:53 minutes to reboot Ö.ö
May 02 14:48:01 * ptl is working out. Right now.
May 02 14:48:16 <chem|st> Mece: I jsut deleted the links and the requests for links the rest is there but reggie closed it already
May 02 14:48:24 <frals> ah got my SDK up and running again, can finally spam HAM with updates \o/
May 02 14:48:26 <Khertan_n900> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=638384#post638384
May 02 14:48:29 <Mece> chem|st, yep, I saw.
May 02 14:48:31 <Khertan_n900> lol
May 02 14:49:15 <noobmonk3y> stupid question alert - how do i actually use Qt::WA_Maemo5StackedWindow ?
May 02 14:49:31 <Mece> damn, now I'm annoyed with the stacking windows. I was just about to make one for an app I'm doing.
May 02 14:49:40 <noobmonk3y> frals, spam maed from trouts? trouty spammage?
May 02 14:49:46 <noobmonk3y> lol Mece
May 02 14:49:51 <mikki-kun> lcuk: healthcheck woul cost me 10MB of rootfs Ö.ö
May 02 14:49:56 <Mece> waitup, I can help with that.
May 02 14:50:06 <lcuk> mikki-kun, it better not do!
May 02 14:50:08 <Khertan_n900> ??
May 02 14:50:10 <lcuk> cos its optified
May 02 14:50:14 <noobmonk3y> mikki-kun, it installs lots of dependencies :P - to test everything on your device, unfortunatley lots are not optified :(
May 02 14:50:16 <lcuk> /opt/healthcheck
May 02 14:50:18 <Mece> noobmonk3y, I figure it's the same as the rotate ones.
May 02 14:50:27 <chem|st> Mece: I like the sense of piracy but you dont piss at the fence of s/o who gives you his keys to his playground
May 02 14:50:29 <noobmonk3y> but as lcuk says - healthcheck itself is tiny
May 02 14:50:41 <noobmonk3y> Mece, what does the code actually look like though?
May 02 14:50:46 <Mece> chem|st, I agree.
May 02 14:51:32 <mikki-kun> hm, any other app besides that? ^^
May 02 14:52:31 <mikki-kun> i think i'll install the gnu-utils
May 02 14:52:46 <chem|st> Mece: I am open to sign a NDA and be part of a RC testing group; however I do not understand why Nokia keeps the RCs a secret, wouldnt it help a lot to have a larger group of ppl who are knowing what they do to test it tho?
May 02 14:52:53 <Jaffa> chem|st: Mece: if we don't allow links to non-Nokia unauthorised, copyrighted material; we shouldn't really allow it for Nokia material.
May 02 14:53:22 <MohammadAG_> ERROR: Scratchbox is not properly set up! OH CRAP
May 02 14:53:33 <MohammadAG_> I reinstalled it about 10 times!
May 02 14:53:35 <Jaffa> chem|st: They did it for PR1.1, no idea why they didn't do it again.
May 02 14:53:40 <chem|st> MohammadAG_: didn't you have this lately?
May 02 14:54:19 <frals> MohammadAG_: what are you installing under? gui installer worked fine for me on ubuntu10.04 32bit
May 02 14:54:25 <Mece> noobmonk3y, here is some c++ that should translate straight to py: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/maemo5-stackedwindows.html
May 02 14:54:34 <MohammadAG_> chem|st, it started with 10.04
May 02 14:54:35 <lardman|home> Jaffa: perhaps they didn't get enough useful feedback last time?
May 02 14:54:38 <MohammadAG_> frals, using the scripts
May 02 14:54:40 <Khertan_n900> jaffa : this link seems to be a leak too
May 02 14:54:41 <noobmonk3y> lol yeah got that
May 02 14:54:44 <chem|st> Jaffa: I agree, like I said dont piss at Nokias fence it is the first company I know doing an OSproject like this
May 02 14:54:48 <noobmonk3y> doesnt translate yet !
May 02 14:54:56 <Khertan_n900> at least when we look at the schematics pdf
May 02 14:54:58 <noobmonk3y> gettin ginvalid syntaxes everywhere
May 02 14:55:02 <MohammadAG_> frals, afaik the GUI does the same as the script
May 02 14:55:12 <Mece> I'm going to do this app in c++ but I'm doing it in py first, so I can comfortably dev on the device.
May 02 14:55:48 <noobmonk3y> :P
May 02 14:55:49 <Jaffa> lardman|home: Perhaps. It didn't get leaked though ;)
May 02 14:55:52 <Mece> noobmonk3y, lol
May 02 14:56:07 <chem|st> Mece: thats how it should be... those MEM leak py background things eat kittens
May 02 14:56:17 <MohammadAG_> ugh rebooting
May 02 14:56:41 <Khertan_n900> mem leak py background ??
May 02 14:56:52 <lardman|home> Jaffa: true, so were they running a test group who were less trustworthy than us then? ;)
May 02 14:57:12 <Jaffa> lardman|home: Only logical conclusion :)
May 02 14:57:13 <Mece> chem|st, I want a png bg on a listview, but it's slow as shit in py. I'm kinda hoping it would be better in c++
May 02 14:57:47 <chem|st> Khertan_n900: recaller for example, the widget made hildon-home swap alot and several programs went to D state
May 02 14:57:51 <lardman|home> Jaffa: :D
May 02 14:58:29 <Khertan_n900> uh ? ... it s not a python problem but a badly written python hildon-home launcher
May 02 14:58:40 <MohammadAG> Welcome to Scratchbox, the cross-compilation toolkit! <-- yeah, Ubuntu's f'd
May 02 14:58:51 <mikki-kun> hu?
May 02 14:58:53 <RST38h> Hello, punks
May 02 14:59:25 <RST38h> heya lardman, anything new and exciting since the barcode thing? =)
May 02 15:00:16 <lardman|home> RST38h: have been busy trying to get barcode thing finished (with very able help from dragly)
May 02 15:00:27 <lardman|home> RST38h: v busy at work, also trying to move house atm
May 02 15:00:52 <lardman|home> RST38h: but give me a digital compass, and I'd like to do some augmented reality app hacking :)
May 02 15:01:05 <mikki-kun> w00t, i just found chromium browser in the extras-devel for the n900 Ö.ö
May 02 15:02:36 * DocScrutinizer ponders to adjust topic wrt to the PR1.2 part - depends on common request in this channel though. keep/delete? first to gain 5 votes is winner
May 02 15:03:12 <gevaerts> DocScrutinizer: s/kicked/banned/? :)
May 02 15:03:58 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, that's a new request, ok will consider. Though this needs at least 10 votes to win
May 02 15:04:02 <RST38h> lardman: Heh, the real feat would be to do it without the compass =)
May 02 15:04:07 <frals> im with gevaerts on this one
May 02 15:04:50 <lcuk> RST38h, lardman|home indeed, testing wise it shouldnt matter whether there was or wasnt a compas there
May 02 15:04:51 <lardman|home> RST38h: well my wife has just given me her Android phone (she hated it) so I might use that as a remote BT compass ;)
May 02 15:04:56 <lardman|home> slight overkill I know!
May 02 15:05:05 <lcuk> duct tape
May 02 15:05:54 <Mece> is there some big premierleague game going on right now?
May 02 15:06:21 * frals is happy, i broke healtcheck \o/
May 02 15:06:24 <RST38h> http://pw0nd.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/cleric-499x413.jpg
May 02 15:06:26 <Khertan> hum ... after reading some post about pr1.2 leaked version ... i hope this is not the version we are waiting as from some reports there is still some bugs
May 02 15:06:30 <RST38h> lardman: ! =)
May 02 15:06:37 * frals slaps noobmonk3y with a huge trout
May 02 15:06:46 <RST38h> Khertan: There are always bugs
May 02 15:07:13 <Stskeeps> Khertan: and people realize they cannot downgrade.. heh :)
May 02 15:07:16 <Khertan> RST38h, yep of course ... : but : some says that microb won't start
May 02 15:07:30 <Khertan> some says they have reboot loop
May 02 15:07:34 * DocScrutinizer counts each post here nonrelated to above opened poll as a 0.25 vote to keep it this way
May 02 15:07:35 <Khertan> Stskeeps, ho ? really ?
May 02 15:07:47 <Khertan> Stskeeps, cann't reflash with an older version ?
May 02 15:07:50 <Stskeeps> Khertan: upgrading modem firmware it sounds like
May 02 15:07:54 <Khertan> ouch
May 02 15:08:03 <RST38h> Khertan: There are always people who are stuck in reboot loop.
May 02 15:08:10 <Stskeeps> serves them right
May 02 15:08:15 <Mece> LOL
May 02 15:08:36 <Khertan> RST38h, uhm ... a reason ?
May 02 15:08:36 * RST38h moos at Stskeeps evilly
May 02 15:08:39 <frals> lol Stskeeps :D
May 02 15:08:43 <Mece> man I'm disappointed that most of the douches seem to have stuff working.
May 02 15:08:52 <RST38h> Khertan: Just chronic bad luck =)
May 02 15:09:05 <Khertan> ah .... murphy ...
May 02 15:09:26 <RST38h> Khertan: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/schlemazel
May 02 15:09:45 <RST38h> Mece: Feeling left out? :)
May 02 15:09:51 <Khertan> anyway i ll not trust and install a leaked version from a unknow guy ... some malwares could be include :)
May 02 15:10:49 <Khertan> RST38h, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy%27s_law
May 02 15:11:01 <Mece> RST38h, didn't feel like trying some old RC today. I'm pretty happy with 1.1.1 actually.
May 02 15:11:10 <RST38h> Khertan: Yea, but Murphy's is less personal
May 02 15:11:28 <Khertan> true
May 02 15:11:47 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: welcome on board of accesslist btw :-) Always wondered why you're not in there
May 02 15:11:55 <jacekowski> well, things i was hoping for are not in 1.2
May 02 15:12:04 <jacekowski> so it's just useless update
May 02 15:12:26 <Mece> I did mention that this is a 4 weeks old rc, so obviously it's not final pr1.2, but nobody took note of that.
May 02 15:12:46 <RST38h> jacekowski: you definitely should not waste time installing it then
May 02 15:12:49 <Mece> jacekowski, what are you yearning for?
May 02 15:12:58 <RST38h> ponies?
May 02 15:13:22 <Khertan> Mece, didn't know ... thx for the information
May 02 15:13:48 <nid0> hm, the supertesters thread is kinda disheartening
May 02 15:13:52 <jacekowski> turn by turn voice navigation in ovi maps
May 02 15:13:58 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: oh dear
May 02 15:14:16 <nid0> so many people volenteering for the role who dont seem to have done qa on even one package in -testing, ever
May 02 15:14:17 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, laziness.
May 02 15:14:30 <Mece> aaaahaha brilliant post by hynkel :D
May 02 15:14:34 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, plus, X-Fade is just such a good abuser. ;)
May 02 15:14:36 * DocScrutinizer yawns
May 02 15:15:06 <Mece> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=638515 I lol'd
May 02 15:15:42 * DocScrutinizer pops another Aspirin
May 02 15:16:01 <frals> time to thumb down on planet  \o/
May 02 15:16:06 <Khertan> nid0, héhé ... and there will be zero results
May 02 15:16:15 <RST38h> nid0: But they are all obviously well qualified to test packages
May 02 15:16:47 <nid0> well I put my name down in the thread anyway as im already a testingsquad member and test most stuff going through, but out of like 15 "ill do it"'s i'm like the only one I can see
May 02 15:16:55 <Khertan> RST38h, of course testing a package is just installing the app and clicking on a icon for thumb up or down
May 02 15:17:03 <Khertan> everybody that can read can do it
May 02 15:17:03 <nid0> if those 15 ish people just tested stuff anyway, the whole supertester thing wouldnt need to exist
May 02 15:17:24 <Khertan> nid0, even if it s exist it will not solve the problems
May 02 15:18:11 <RST38h> Khertan: The most advanced testers will actually thumb apps down for "lack of bugtracker URL", "lack of localization", or "possibly ip violation"
May 02 15:18:33 <Khertan> ip violation ?
May 02 15:18:41 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: is it documented anywhere which PXx.y versions came with a modem FW update, maybe even which version of modem FW?
May 02 15:18:47 <Mece> what khertan said.
May 02 15:18:50 <nid0> intellectual property
May 02 15:18:55 <Khertan> ah ... ok
May 02 15:19:10 <RST38h> But, really, this whole testing thing has long become an artificial hurdle preventing useful stuff from going into Extras
May 02 15:19:11 <Mece> what khertan said   again :)
May 02 15:19:22 <Khertan> RST38h, especially if the web interface is bugged :)
May 02 15:19:34 <RST38h> Khertan: Oh do not even start me on the web interface =((
May 02 15:19:38 <Khertan> RST38h, :)
May 02 15:19:53 <Khertan> anyway it s not my problem anymore ... i didn't care about it
May 02 15:20:08 <Khertan> i didn't have anymore upload right to extras repository :)
May 02 15:20:20 <RST38h> Khertan: Speaking of testing, please vote on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xchat/2.8.6-maemo16/
May 02 15:20:39 <Khertan> RST38h, thumb down ?
May 02 15:20:41 <Khertan> :)
May 02 15:20:50 <RST38h> Khertan: Needs 4 more votes before it goes into Extras and those pesku plugin-based dialogs go away
May 02 15:21:13 <Khertan> needs 2 votes now
May 02 15:21:13 <RST38h> Khertan: Well, if you want to continue suffering cehteh's notifications, then thumb it down =)
May 02 15:21:17 <RST38h> Thanks =)
May 02 15:21:25 <Mece> o. I'll vote for that. does it pass the checklist?
May 02 15:21:34 <Khertan> RST38h, i didn't suffer from anything ... use extras-devel :)
May 02 15:21:41 <nid0> Mece: ywa
May 02 15:21:41 <GAN900> Ugh
May 02 15:21:43 <nid0> yes*
May 02 15:22:05 <RST38h> Khertan: Same here. Miraculously, it did not do me any harm, like some Council members are claiming it would =)
May 02 15:22:32 <RST38h> Mece: Cthulhu knows... But it is the same as the previous version, just tweaked notifications
May 02 15:22:33 <Mece> tadaa
May 02 15:22:39 <Mece> 10 up
May 02 15:22:44 <Khertan> Mece, works on my n900 ... didn't drain battery ... and i didn't care about bugtracker link ... so it s thumb up for me
May 02 15:22:48 <ShadowJK> What's different about this xchat?
May 02 15:22:58 <lcuk> RST38h, you and Khertan as developers know and understand the risks, others do not
May 02 15:23:12 <Mece> rst38h, well Im using it, and haven't had any problems.
May 02 15:23:13 <RST38h> Thanks, all
May 02 15:23:17 <Khertan> lcuk, yep ...  i didn't say to user to use extras-devel ...
May 02 15:23:30 <Khertan> lcuk, i say to users to use the Khertan Repository
May 02 15:23:31 <RST38h> ShadoJK: Cehteh's stuff is now mostly disabled. Replaced it with XChat's internal bubble notifications
May 02 15:23:35 <Khertan> more saff :)
May 02 15:23:43 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Had to tweak them a bit to make them more terse
May 02 15:23:46 <lcuk> i would really like to find a way for people to subscribe to specific apps from -devel
May 02 15:23:48 <GAN900> Not really helping anybody by facilitating your owner laziness at the cost of your users' safety.
May 02 15:23:56 <ShadowJK> RST38h, hm.. internal like on N810?
May 02 15:23:56 <lcuk> for example, to test only latest x-chat or something
May 02 15:24:10 <lcuk> without the fuss of the whole lot
May 02 15:24:15 <Mece> Khertan, do you have a newer version of pygtkeditor in your repo?
May 02 15:24:15 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: heh, I can thumb-up this notification to oblivion? let's go!!!
May 02 15:24:17 <GAN900> lcuk, those are called PPAs
May 02 15:24:20 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Yea, except they look a bit different on Maemo5 and I have not been able to fix the app icon in them
May 02 15:24:28 <RST38h> ShadowJK: but they work and work pretty well
May 02 15:24:30 <Khertan> Mece, hum ... in my repository it s 3.0.15
May 02 15:24:52 <lcuk> GAN900, ? what do the prescription pricing authority have to do with this
May 02 15:24:53 <RST38h> DocS: It is now off by default, but cehteh's plugin is still included if you need it
May 02 15:25:00 <lcuk> ie, what does PPA mean
May 02 15:25:27 <Khertan> Mece, http://khertan.net/news_en.php
May 02 15:25:51 <lcuk> ahhh GAN900 its ok
May 02 15:25:57 <lcuk> personal package archives :)
May 02 15:25:58 <Mece> Khertan, 3.0.14 here. does it fix the capital letter bug?
May 02 15:26:02 <RST38h> GAN: Repeating my old mantra, if you want developers to use the Extras path, you have to make it easy. By artificially making it difficult, you scare off the developers
May 02 15:26:08 <lcuk> i saw those the other day and agree
May 02 15:26:13 <Khertan> Mece, ? the capital letter bug ?
May 02 15:26:19 <Khertan> didn't know about it
May 02 15:26:21 <noobmonk3y> awwwww finally something good on britains got talent
May 02 15:26:22 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, it's not about making it easy for developers.
May 02 15:26:35 <RST38h> GAN: And yes, of course testing matters and so does security. Except that the current policies are kinda lousy with this stuff
May 02 15:26:42 <GeneralAntilles> It's about ensuring we have good quality software available to users with the least amount of burden possible balanced across all groups.
May 02 15:26:42 <Mece> Khertan it tends to start lines with capital letter, which kis annoying.
May 02 15:26:45 <lcuk> RST38h, extras shouldnt scare off devs - after all when was the last time you managed to get your download into any distribution by default
May 02 15:27:04 <RST38h> GAN: Well, if it is not about making it easy for developers, then you should not blame the developers for leaving
May 02 15:27:14 * GeneralAntilles isn't sure why going with your own repository is better than waiting in Extras-devel.
May 02 15:27:18 <Mece> I keep typing the wrong variable names.
May 02 15:27:25 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, I can blame whomever I want. :)
May 02 15:27:27 <Khertan> Mece: ... ah i use the hildon autocompletion off setting ... and it s disable too the hildon auto capital
May 02 15:27:40 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, I blame developers for being unwilling to follow a process that protects their users.
May 02 15:27:41 <RST38h> GAN: Same here, but I usually end up blaming Bill gates =)
May 02 15:27:44 <Khertan> (in the preferences of pygtkeditor)
May 02 15:27:44 <Mece> Khertan, cool, thanks!
May 02 15:27:45 * lcuk looks forward to an end to end development cycle which does not involve tooth extraction to get started
May 02 15:27:53 <Khertan> it s already include in 3.0.14
May 02 15:28:07 <RST38h> lcuk: Never really wanted to put my apps into any distributions
May 02 15:28:15 <lcuk> apart from maemo
May 02 15:28:19 <Khertan> GeneralAntilles, it s doesn't protect anythings ... try to release a bug fix quickly
May 02 15:28:26 <RST38h> lcuk: Only doing this on Maemo because of the App Manager specifics
May 02 15:28:30 <Khertan> GeneralAntilles, and you ll see what i mean
May 02 15:28:31 <GeneralAntilles> Khertan, obviously that's a bug in the process.
May 02 15:28:38 <Khertan> GeneralAntilles, oh ?
May 02 15:28:45 <nid0> tbh, the one thing that really should be changed about the testing process is a significant decrease in quarantine time
May 02 15:28:46 <GeneralAntilles> Khertan, but because the process isn't perfect, going off and playing in your own little playground isn't a better solution.
May 02 15:28:47 <Mece> Khertan, any idea why it stopped displaying recent files on launch after I reinstalled?
May 02 15:28:49 <nid0> to, like, 2 days.
May 02 15:28:53 <nid0> tops
May 02 15:28:54 <Khertan> GeneralAntilles, but s not possible to improve it ...
May 02 15:28:58 <RST38h> lcuk: I did have my stuff in SuSE. SuSE people actually licensed the right to package it from me and did the packaging
May 02 15:29:05 <GeneralAntilles> Fatalism is hardly useful.
May 02 15:29:06 <lcuk> thats fine
May 02 15:29:11 <Khertan> GeneralAntilles, every discussion about it end in trolling game
May 02 15:29:11 <lcuk> do you expect that here too?
May 02 15:29:30 <RST38h> General: Not only the process is not perfect. Nobody is willing to change it, in spite of multiple complaints.
May 02 15:29:33 <lcuk> i wish there was a way to supply unpackaged stuff and get everything done
May 02 15:29:36 <Khertan> GeneralAntilles, and nothing good is done from it
May 02 15:29:43 <RST38h> General: People who care have no rights. People with rights seemingly do not care.
May 02 15:29:49 <frals> packaging is the bane of developing :P
May 02 15:30:00 <lcuk> frals, ive said it before - installshield!
May 02 15:30:03 <RST38h> General: So, yes, I fully understand Khertan striking it on his own
May 02 15:30:11 <Mece> frals, I'm getting down with packaging lately :)
May 02 15:30:27 <Khertan> packaging take more time than creating apps ... so yes, there is a problem
May 02 15:30:32 <RST38h> lcuk: I expect to have less trouble, that's all
May 02 15:30:33 <frals> Mece: yeah its "fine" when you got everything setup etc but... getting there :P
May 02 15:30:45 <lcuk> RST38h, understood
May 02 15:31:00 <ptl> Nobody is willing to change theprocess, in spite of multiple complaints. Nokia is not willing to release PR1.2 officially, in spire of multiple complaints. See anything in common?
May 02 15:31:05 <ptl> Nokia is too busy not listening to their customers.
May 02 15:31:18 <Khertan> frals, even if you got everything setup ... you ll encouter bug in the package web interface for example
May 02 15:31:21 <lcuk> nokia are listening to their customers
May 02 15:31:34 <frals> what has extras process to do with pr1.2 not being out?
May 02 15:31:49 <frals> my mind is no stranger to great leaps but its not making that one
May 02 15:31:49 <ptl> Maybe the mentality! :P
May 02 15:31:50 <Khertan> ptl, this are different things !
May 02 15:31:59 <ptl> I know
May 02 15:32:05 <Mece> frals, yep.
May 02 15:32:05 <RST38h> ptl: That is different
May 02 15:32:16 <Khertan> ptl, do not mixing your problem with the packaging / QA problem
May 02 15:32:24 <lcuk> there are a lot more customers than developers nowadays
May 02 15:32:25 <frals> Khertan: hmm, uploaded some 20 diff versions via extras webinterface yet :) only got one app in extras and it went thru testing fine
May 02 15:32:26 <ptl> but it shows the walls that developers, users and power users have to face. A world of frustration.
May 02 15:32:52 <RST38h> ptl: PR1.2 trouble is different
May 02 15:33:17 <RST38h> ptl: PR1.2 release is part of Nokia's internal processes. They have to follow the processes.
May 02 15:33:26 <Khertan> frals, yep but one example : http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/vectormine/1.0.7-1/
May 02 15:33:37 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, because people don't necessarily agree with your proposed changes, doesn't mean they don't care. :)
May 02 15:33:44 <RST38h> ptl: Extras policies are really decided by a tiny bunch of people with XFade singlehandedly responsible for changing the process
May 02 15:33:45 <Khertan> and i ve about 10 or 15 differents problem
May 02 15:33:54 <Corsac> hmhm, is there some kind of OOM on maemo? seems like maep has gone crazy
May 02 15:33:54 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade's investing an awful lot of hours into this thing to supposedly not care.
May 02 15:34:02 <Mece> I haven't noticed any problems with pr1.2. I've noticed a lot of impatient jerks though.
May 02 15:34:11 <RST38h> General: I am pretty sure most people agree with at leas a third of my proposed changes
May 02 15:34:15 <Khertan> GeneralAntilles, hop ...
May 02 15:34:16 <RST38h> But it is ok if you do not agree
May 02 15:34:20 <Khertan> and trolling again
May 02 15:34:21 <Chiku> MohammadAG, Healtcheck works on PR1.2
May 02 15:34:34 <ptl> RST38h: why doesn't he? He is present here almost every day, but seems he doesn't care
May 02 15:34:38 <SpeedEvil> Corsac: oom killer is enabled
May 02 15:34:40 <noobmonk3y> Any reason people can see for self.setAttribute(QtGui.WA_Maemo5StackedWindow)  not working?
May 02 15:34:43 <frals> Khertan: non-free seems to lack testers i guess :/
May 02 15:34:45 <Khertan> we didn't say xfade isn't doing his job or didn't care
May 02 15:34:47 <ptl> impatient jerks? c'mon...
May 02 15:34:50 <RST38h> ptl: Maybe because he doesn't, I have no idea
May 02 15:35:03 <ptl> ok, I will not troll about it again. I am also tired of it.
May 02 15:35:08 <Khertan> frals, not the problem of tester ... look at the bugtracker link problem
May 02 15:35:08 <Chiku> noobmonk3y, it was you who healtcheck not works?
May 02 15:35:11 <Mace_N900> xchat is brutalizing my battery
May 02 15:35:13 <Khertan> i got problem with icon
May 02 15:35:14 <noobmonk3y> getting " module, object has no attribute " error
May 02 15:35:14 <Corsac> SpeedEvil: ok so at some point maep will be killed :)
May 02 15:35:18 <Stskeeps> the issue is rather xfade needs more hands
May 02 15:35:19 <frals> Khertan: yeah, but that got fixed didnt it?
May 02 15:35:21 <ptl> but that's what's left of us. Whining and trolling. The other users have already left the scene.
May 02 15:35:22 <Khertan> got problem with changelog
May 02 15:35:23 <GeneralAntilles> Khertan, <RST38h> General: People who care have no rights. People with rights seemingly do not care.
May 02 15:35:23 <RST38h> Macer: It should not. rm -rf ~/.xchat2
May 02 15:35:28 <RST38h> Macer: and reinstall
May 02 15:35:28 <noobmonk3y> Chiku, fancy explaining that question? lol
May 02 15:35:44 <frals> changelog problem i had with pypackager because its not writing a proper debian changelog
May 02 15:35:54 <Khertan> frals : not really.... it s fixes when i upload the x86 version ...
May 02 15:36:05 <SpeedEvil> Corsac: It depends - oom killer is not the only issue - swap can effectively deadlock your system if things go wrong
May 02 15:36:12 * RST38h wonders if he should mention the late PR1.2 SDK fiasco
May 02 15:36:15 <Khertan> GeneralAntilles, ok but we didn't talk about xfade here
May 02 15:36:23 <Stskeeps> and jeremiah really hasnt pulled his weight..
May 02 15:36:25 <RST38h> Which has been completely avoidable
May 02 15:36:27 <frals> Khertan: weird - not noticed any problems with my changelog unless i bork it with non utf8 characters
May 02 15:36:45 <Khertan> utf8.... hum ...
May 02 15:36:48 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, the blame for that lies in a number of sectors.
May 02 15:36:54 <Khertan> maybe it s my problem
May 02 15:36:57 <Mece> frals, just use pypackager to setup initially . then uswe dpkg-buildpackage -sn -S after you've done dch -i
May 02 15:36:59 <GeneralAntilles> (Mostly Nokia, though)
May 02 15:37:01 <RST38h> General: Not really.
May 02 15:37:15 <Stskeeps> RST38h: even with knowing what is going on in a company things can change overnight
May 02 15:37:17 <RST38h> General: It was a simple wrong decision. one decision.
May 02 15:37:22 <frals> Mece: what i did pretty much, i used pypackager for the first versions to get the debian/* files and now im using buildpackage :D
May 02 15:37:31 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, if you say so.
May 02 15:37:35 <RST38h> General: If none of the users have PR1.2, you DO NOT make autobuilder produce PR1.2 packages by default.
May 02 15:37:46 <RST38h> General: If you do, everybody is fucked up.
May 02 15:37:58 <Mece> frals, yep. once you have the debian/* it's easy to fix each version.
May 02 15:38:02 <frals> aye
May 02 15:38:03 <ZogG_N900> i got alert that sdk is not supported on 64bit system
May 02 15:38:07 <RST38h> All the further justification does not matter, as you have just broke the whole system.
May 02 15:38:11 <ZogG_N900> any ideas?
May 02 15:38:22 <Mace_N900> hm
May 02 15:38:23 <Khertan> ZogG, install a 32bit os
May 02 15:38:27 <Khertan> :)
May 02 15:38:30 <Khertan> the easier way
May 02 15:38:43 <ZogG_N900> khertan not gonna happened
May 02 15:38:52 <RST38h> But, Stskeeps, it has not been one night. It has been almost a year for Maemo5 alone
May 02 15:39:26 <RST38h> And we are not talking Nokia practices (like PRxx releases being rare and delayed, etc). We are talking maemo.org practices.
May 02 15:39:26 <MohammadAG> <Chiku> MohammadAG, Healtcheck works on PR1.2 <-- ok?
May 02 15:39:40 <ZogG_N900> so noone tried on it on 64bit?
May 02 15:39:42 <noobmonk3y> MohammadAG,  it doesnt
May 02 15:39:43 <RST38h> Quim is so eager to claim that maemo.org is NOT Nokia...
May 02 15:39:51 <Khertan> :)
May 02 15:39:58 <noobmonk3y> Chiku, test the tools page -- open up the dead pixel test and try to close it
May 02 15:40:00 <MohammadAG> noobmonk3y, why is he telling me lol
May 02 15:40:05 <frals> i heard healthcheck is broken all around!
May 02 15:40:08 <MohammadAG> you're the one who made it
May 02 15:40:08 <noobmonk3y> MohammadAG,  because you are a legend ;)
May 02 15:40:12 * frals takes a swing at noobmonk3y with a trout
May 02 15:40:19 <noobmonk3y> frals,  it got hit by a badly aimed trout :(
May 02 15:40:28 <frals> sorry! :<
May 02 15:40:29 <frals> :D
May 02 15:40:33 <noobmonk3y> hehehe
May 02 15:40:36 <ZogG_N900> mohammadag is a robot
May 02 15:41:00 <lcuk> RST38h, its entirely possible that X-Fade thought the pr1.2 release was ready - hell a lot of people did - and was  trying to be ontop of a newly evolving situation and got caught when testing noticed things - for this i dont "blame" x-fade or any of the maemo team and infact thing the retroactive update to squeeze toolkit will be beneficial in the long run
May 02 15:41:17 <noobmonk3y> still cant get stacked windows working, grrrrrrrrrr
May 02 15:41:22 <lcuk> because it removes the compatability break
May 02 15:41:26 <Chiku> <noobmonk3y> Chiku, test the tools page -- open up the dead pixel test and try to close it <-- I didt it it's ok
May 02 15:41:27 <MohammadAG> noobmonk3y, unstack it and it'll work
May 02 15:41:36 <noobmonk3y> Chiku, what version?
May 02 15:41:40 <mece> noobmonk3y, are you using leakyware?
May 02 15:41:44 <noobmonk3y> mece,  yeah
May 02 15:41:46 <Chiku> leak one
May 02 15:42:01 <noobmonk3y> Chiku,  i mean what healthcheck version?
May 02 15:42:02 <mece> Chiku, I think he meant what ver of healtchecker..
May 02 15:42:07 <mece> :)
May 02 15:42:07 <noobmonk3y> lol mece
May 02 15:42:16 <Chiku> v1.0.0-0
May 02 15:42:19 <noobmonk3y> hmmmmmmmm
May 02 15:42:27 <noobmonk3y> doesnt work for me Chiku  - sssstrange
May 02 15:42:28 <Chiku> font is too big
May 02 15:42:29 <mece> a lot of zeroes there :D
May 02 15:42:57 <noobmonk3y> lol mece  ;)
May 02 15:43:08 <noobmonk3y> next version due in extras is V1.2.0-0 ;)
May 02 15:43:10 <Chiku> I flashed vanilla
May 02 15:43:13 <noobmonk3y> well in devel
May 02 15:43:15 <mece> anyone have some pointers on how to automagically /msg nickserv identify on xchat?
May 02 15:43:16 <lcuk> ZogG_N900, you will hve to read up on the developers documentation on maemo.org about 64bit - it is possible but its not standard and needs extra hurdles
May 02 15:43:16 <Corsac> SpeedEvil: so basically once the n900 isn't responsive at all because an app leaked too much, the only way to be sure is hard reset via battery?
May 02 15:43:21 <noobmonk3y> ahhhhh i didnt flash the emmc
May 02 15:43:39 <GeneralAntilles> mece, there's a field somewhere in network settings.
May 02 15:43:40 <noobmonk3y> but that shouldnt make a difference
May 02 15:43:41 <Corsac> (screen won't resume atm)
May 02 15:43:55 <Chiku> I didn't set up dev repos
May 02 15:43:58 <mece> GeneralAntilles, ok, looking it up.
May 02 15:45:33 <timeless_mbp> Trizt: ok, i'm staging my 0.1-7/0.1-8
May 02 15:46:32 <timeless_mbp> wah
May 02 15:46:35 <timeless_mbp> it doesn't work
May 02 15:46:38 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: help?
May 02 15:46:48 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, what with?
May 02 15:46:53 <timeless_mbp> i have a package and i need to ship different versions to different people
May 02 15:47:00 <lcuk> mece, in the network settings you can assign a user and password
May 02 15:47:07 <lcuk> and afaik they are used for registering
May 02 15:47:10 <timeless_mbp> 0.1-8 needs to be given to people running pr1.2
May 02 15:47:20 <timeless_mbp> and 0.1-7 needs to be given to people running pr1.1.1
May 02 15:47:23 <mece> lcuk, I think I found it.
May 02 15:47:39 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, not my area of expertise.
May 02 15:47:42 <mece> lcuk, only had 2 sessions and this one, so mece__ was not registered.. trying again.
May 02 15:47:42 <timeless_mbp> right now, ham helpfully says it can't install 0.1-8 because there are "problems"
May 02 15:47:55 <mece> hmm got invalid password! bastards!
May 02 15:48:09 <Khertan> lol
May 02 15:48:19 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; thanks
May 02 15:48:40 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp: aiui your best bet is to have distinct package names
May 02 15:48:51 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: that's insane
May 02 15:48:54 <mece> aah.. stupid capital letter
May 02 15:48:56 <Chiku> what is the package name for new qt animate weather soft?
May 02 15:48:59 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 02 15:49:09 <timeless_mbp> is this because ham is lazy?
May 02 15:49:19 <Mece_> yay  works
May 02 15:49:27 <SpeedEvil> Corsac: in some cases, yes. Though I've found that often ssh will be responsive even if the UI is borked
May 02 15:49:46 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: hrm
May 02 15:49:51 <timeless_mbp> can i cheat and have:
May 02 15:49:57 * DocScrutinizer greets SpeedEvil
May 02 15:50:19 <timeless_mbp> (meta-package) Depends: foo-1.1 | foo-1.2 ?
May 02 15:50:27 <SpeedEvil> lo
May 02 15:50:28 <Khertan> http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/29/hewlett-packard-to-kill-windows-7-tablet-project/ <<< hum .... and somebody say me yesterday that x86 should be used in phone ?
May 02 15:50:29 <Khertan> :)
May 02 15:50:34 <Mace_N900> blah
May 02 15:50:34 <chem|st> grml still deleting, why are those ppl getting into fights just because of an 15 days old RC?
May 02 15:50:54 <Khertan> HP may also be abandoning Intel-based hardware for its slate lineup simply because it’s too power hungry.
May 02 15:50:55 <Khertan> Read more: http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/29/hewlett-packard-to-kill-windows-7-tablet-project/#ixzz0mmuJ7mxu
May 02 15:50:58 <Khertan> ;)
May 02 15:50:58 * SpeedEvil had an x86 tablet design back in the day.
May 02 15:51:01 <mece> more like 28 days..
May 02 15:51:10 <SpeedEvil> 2* PCMCIA cards, wrap-around chording keyboard.
May 02 15:51:13 <chem|st> mece: already?
May 02 15:51:16 <SpeedEvil> Virtual display
May 02 15:51:24 * chem|st is looking up his cal entries
May 02 15:51:25 <SpeedEvil> 386/20 class processor (amd elan)
May 02 15:51:31 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: lo
May 02 15:51:31 <Khertan> :)
May 02 15:51:38 <mece> chem|st, it was 12-8 so week 12. it's week 17 now.
May 02 15:51:52 <mece> perhaps build 8 was later of course..
May 02 15:51:53 <RST38h> "Submit your website for free!"
May 02 15:51:53 <Khertan> and ?
May 02 15:52:02 <chem|st> mece: you are right... but I guess its not the first git freeze
May 02 15:52:16 <Khertan> <RST38h> "Submit your website for free!" <<< ,???
May 02 15:52:18 <mece> chem|st someone mentioned we're at 16-8 now..
May 02 15:52:26 <RST38h> Khertan: just got weird spam
May 02 15:52:42 <chem|st> mece: so 1.2 will be 16 not 12?
May 02 15:52:58 <chem|st> maybe the HK flash is 12...
May 02 15:53:18 <chem|st> I guess it will upgrade the first time it gets online ;)
May 02 15:53:21 <Mace_N900> heh. need to save battery life
May 02 15:53:40 <Mace_N900> the gov wants to send the national guard here
May 02 15:53:42 <Mace_N900> hahahaha
May 02 15:53:49 <RST38h> why?
May 02 15:53:52 <Mace_N900> i love my city
May 02 15:53:55 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: honestly... any idea why my xchat regegisters (to be precise ping-timouts) all the time?
May 02 15:54:14 <Mace_N900> because we are about to have more murders in 6 months than iraq in 6 years
May 02 15:54:46 <RST38h> Macer: Ah, rioting started? =)
May 02 15:54:49 <Mace_N900> no
May 02 15:54:58 <Mace_N900> just a typical day in chicago
May 02 15:55:03 <Mace_N900> ;)
May 02 15:55:20 <RST38h> DocS: You have to explain this in simpler terms so that a cow can understand
May 02 15:55:24 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: does pidgin do this?
May 02 15:55:25 <DocScrutinizer> Mace_N900: forget GSM then, get a decent satphone
May 02 15:55:36 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: good question
May 02 15:55:41 <chem|st> Mace_N900: was just about to ask if you live in chico bay
May 02 15:55:49 <RST38h> Macer: Wasn't there some law against using the Army inside the country?
May 02 15:55:54 <Mace_N900> hahaha
May 02 15:56:05 <Mace_N900> national guard isnt really rhe army
May 02 15:56:09 <RST38h> Ah ok
May 02 15:56:10 <Mace_N900> they are scrubs
May 02 15:56:12 <Mace_N900> hahaha
May 02 15:56:13 <ptl> Mace_N900: send some of these guys to pressure Nokia guys to release updates in a timely manner
May 02 15:56:16 <RST38h> Got it
May 02 15:56:17 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: any better idea for an app to test the system IP stack. Pidgin went off my device on day 2 I had it
May 02 15:56:18 <Mace_N900> i was in the usmc
May 02 15:56:34 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: alright
May 02 15:56:34 <Mace_N900> they are worse than local police
May 02 15:56:35 <timeless_mbp> so...
May 02 15:56:40 <chem|st> ptl: they are not allowed outside us, that would be army then...
May 02 15:56:47 <timeless_mbp> i have package foo-meta
May 02 15:56:54 <MohammadAG> <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: honestly... any idea why my xchat regegisters (to be precise ping-timouts) all the time?
May 02 15:56:56 <timeless_mbp> Depends: foo-1.1 | foo-1.2
May 02 15:56:59 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: reinstall it. or irssi - you don't care about generic tests - but IRC
May 02 15:57:01 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp: take my notes with more than a grain of salt. I'm a total noob
May 02 15:57:03 <MohammadAG> cause freenode sucks :)
May 02 15:57:09 <Mace_N900> national guard is meant for these sorts of tasks
May 02 15:57:11 <SpeedEvil> xchat works for me
May 02 15:57:16 <timeless_mbp> and foo-1.1 will have a version dependency which is satisfiable on 1.1
May 02 15:57:18 <MohammadAG> no offense freenode people
May 02 15:57:30 <timeless_mbp> and foo-1.2 will have a version dependency which is satisfiable on 1.2
May 02 15:57:34 * RST38h does not see anything wrong with XChat connected to freenode
May 02 15:57:37 <RST38h> Looks ok to me
May 02 15:57:38 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, it's not xchat
May 02 15:57:44 * DocScrutinizer sighs
May 02 15:57:44 <MohammadAG> It's not xchat..
May 02 15:57:50 <MohammadAG> it's which server you get connected to
May 02 15:57:53 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: yes it is xchat
May 02 15:58:14 <RST38h> Could someone explan in layman terms what you mean by reregistering?
May 02 15:58:20 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, not really, on the other server I never get disconnected, on freenode I get disconnected at least once an hour
May 02 15:58:25 <Mace_N900> open marriage on house
May 02 15:58:26 <Mace_N900> lol
May 02 15:58:34 <MohammadAG> RST38h, Ping timeouts/connections being reset by peers
May 02 15:58:46 <RST38h> Mohammad: Never seen that
May 02 15:58:53 <MohammadAG> you're just lucky
May 02 15:58:57 <RST38h> And I am using EGPRS
May 02 15:58:59 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: Oh - I was meaning it was xchat I was having no peoblems with. I have xchat on n900 and have never seen an unexplained timeout
May 02 15:59:22 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, ah kk, again it depends on the server you're on
May 02 15:59:32 * lcukn900 does not see connection issues either
May 02 15:59:36 <MohammadAG> * Connecting to chat.freenode.net (213.92.8.4) port 8001... <-- atm I'm on this one
May 02 15:59:58 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: fair enough - however - I have never seen this - with maybe a few months of xchat-n900 use
May 02 16:00:23 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, well my connection does drop a packet or two, it could be because of it
May 02 16:00:33 <MohammadAG> (on a slightly related note, pingtest.net)
May 02 16:00:34 * DocScrutinizer asks for ~trout
May 02 16:00:46 * lcuk supplies herring instead 
May 02 16:01:30 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, do that test if you're free
May 02 16:01:33 <MohammadAG> I got a B
May 02 16:01:37 * DocScrutinizer should install a clean OS, rather than using unchecked whatever Nokia repair Shop installed
May 02 16:02:17 * timeless_mbp tries to figure out how to deal w/ this stupid dependency maze
May 02 16:02:44 * DocScrutinizer prepares an Aspirin sandwich
May 02 16:02:55 <lcuk> mmm crunchy
May 02 16:03:24 <SpeedEvil> http://www.pingtest.net/result/16021807.png
May 02 16:05:13 <DocScrutinizer> odds are they installed a kinky special debug OS, at repair shop
May 02 16:05:54 <lcuk> nahhh DocScrutinizer if they put on a debug os and released it there would be a problem surely
May 02 16:05:56 <DocScrutinizer> or at Nokia centarl repair
May 02 16:06:32 <DocScrutinizer> I checked the version, looked good. But you never know
May 02 16:07:00 <lcuk> well, you would know
May 02 16:07:04 <lcuk> or some would
May 02 16:07:06 <DocScrutinizer> ~spank DocScrutinizer
May 02 16:07:07 * infobot bends DocScrutinizer over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on DocScrutinizer's pasty white buttocks.
May 02 16:07:26 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, http://www.pingtest.net/result/16022044.png
May 02 16:07:26 * lcuk throws a bar of chocolate @ aSIMULAtor 
May 02 16:08:52 <Corsac> SpeedEvil: yeah but I wasn't at home when it happened so it's not wlan-connected
May 02 16:11:18 * lcuk goes and cleans stuff
May 02 16:13:08 <GeneralAntilles> Man, the kexec instructions for MeeGo on N900 are terrible.
May 02 16:13:18 <DocScrutinizer> yeeha, starting pingtest -> DocScrutinizer51 xchat relogin
May 02 16:13:32 <MohammadAG> lol
May 02 16:13:43 <DocScrutinizer> man that's scary
May 02 16:15:01 <MohammadAG> * DocScrutinizer51 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
May 02 16:15:14 <MohammadAG> Freenode's kill messages aren't that accurate
May 02 16:16:52 <DocScrutinizer> the pattern is: xchat missing ping response for >180sec -> starts to relogin
May 02 16:17:37 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: there is a 240s timeout on freenodes end now
May 02 16:17:44 <SpeedEvil> It used to be 10 min, which I preferred
May 02 16:18:18 <DocScrutinizer> to me it seems like xchat is *sleeping* and thus the timer for ping response times out. Then when I do whatever with the device (even moving it may sufice) xchat wakes up, notices timer expiry and reconnects/reauthenticates
May 02 16:18:48 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: odd. I wonder if it could be a lan powersave thing
May 02 16:19:11 <DocScrutinizer> I changed lan powersaving from max to medium -> no change
May 02 16:19:19 <DocScrutinizer> same issue am UMTS as well
May 02 16:19:23 <DocScrutinizer> it seems
May 02 16:20:20 <SpeedEvil> odd
May 02 16:20:24 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, I see odd ssh 'breaks' like ~60sec roundtrip time for a keystroke occasionally as well
May 02 16:20:42 <MohammadAG> lagometer is full here
May 02 16:20:43 <SpeedEvil> never ever seen that.
May 02 16:20:53 <ShadowJK> I thought lagometer was disabled
May 02 16:21:12 <DocScrutinizer> what is lagometer. never seen that on xchat
May 02 16:21:17 <SpeedEvil> I never see >500ms responses - even if it's been idle for hours
May 02 16:21:22 * Shapeshifter notices that the n900 display is hard to use using your nose.
May 02 16:21:32 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, View > Network Meters > both
May 02 16:21:32 <Shapeshifter> I demand a fix!!!!111
May 02 16:21:50 * MohammadAG breaks Shapeshifter's nose
May 02 16:21:53 <MohammadAG> fixed? :P
May 02 16:21:53 <Shapeshifter> ouch
May 02 16:21:54 * lcuk punches Shapeshifter in the nose
May 02 16:21:58 <Shapeshifter> oy
May 02 16:22:01 <DocScrutinizer51> no diff
May 02 16:22:18 * MohammadAG punches Shapeshifter again, this time for the laughs
May 02 16:22:23 <DocScrutinizer51> going back to off
May 02 16:22:31 <MohammadAG> kk
May 02 16:22:39 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I'm on my PC and it's full to
May 02 16:22:41 <MohammadAG> too
May 02 16:22:47 <MohammadAG> give it a minute or so to calculate
May 02 16:23:32 * DocScrutinizer sighs
May 02 16:23:57 <MohammadAG> http://pastebin.com/xXhq9KNP any ideas?
May 02 16:24:19 * DocScrutinizer51 waits
May 02 16:24:24 <javispedro> could not open display
May 02 16:24:35 <javispedro> & could not open d-bus
May 02 16:24:42 <MohammadAG> meaning?
May 02 16:24:45 <javispedro> so, export DISPLAY=$XEPHYRDISPLAY, and run-standalone.sh
May 02 16:24:46 <MohammadAG> (sdk btw)
May 02 16:24:54 <MohammadAG> display's running
May 02 16:25:01 <DocScrutinizer> muhahaha
May 02 16:25:17 * MohammadAG exports again
May 02 16:26:01 <MohammadAG> run-standalone.sh got rid of the could not open bits http://pastebin.com/Ue5EFcNd
May 02 16:26:23 <javispedro> is this a diablo program
May 02 16:26:24 <javispedro> ?
May 02 16:26:30 <DocScrutinizer51> now here no lagometer
May 02 16:26:31 <MohammadAG> nope
May 02 16:27:03 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer51, if you are having problems with ssh also, its your connection and not the app surely
May 02 16:27:03 <DocScrutinizer51> seems it doesn't work with mz particular layout of xchat
May 02 16:27:03 <MohammadAG> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51635
May 02 16:27:08 <javispedro> then dunno -- I do not know about pygtk
May 02 16:27:28 <DocScrutinizer51> lcuk: that's what I think as well
May 02 16:27:51 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, time for a new router? :)
May 02 16:28:06 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, do the pingtest test here (on your PC)
May 02 16:28:09 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: did you try without WLAN PSM / powersaving?
May 02 16:28:17 <DocScrutinizer> do you think te old one bitrot during N900 repair?
May 02 16:28:56 <javispedro> *sees backlog* Note that medium vs max is just a timer thing
May 02 16:29:04 <javispedro> try disabled/none to see any difference
May 02 16:29:11 <Jaffa> X-Fade: ping
May 02 16:29:32 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: Is there anyuwhere to tweak powersave more?
May 02 16:29:39 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: wlan powersave I mean
May 02 16:29:59 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: I think I tried that, with no result
May 02 16:30:03 <javispedro> SpeedEvil: wext shows some tunnables
May 02 16:30:13 <DocScrutinizer> anyway will check again
May 02 16:30:39 <javispedro> the normal powersaving pipeline goes like
May 02 16:30:49 <ptl> X-Fade: what is your most sincere opinion about the whole RC PR1.2 case?
May 02 16:31:02 <javispedro> icd checks current network activity -> tells libicd-network-wlan (closed) -> tells via dbus wlancond --> tells kernel via wext
May 02 16:31:10 * lcuk what kind of spraypaint will work nicely on the bezel/back of my n900
May 02 16:31:14 <lcuk> - /me
May 02 16:31:33 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: wext?
May 02 16:31:38 <javispedro> iwconfig, iwpriv, ...
May 02 16:31:51 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: ah
May 02 16:32:06 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: I can see on/off powersave - I don't see more gradations.
May 02 16:32:06 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: changed to 'none'
May 02 16:32:22 <DocScrutinizer> let's see
May 02 16:32:43 <javispedro> SpeedEvil: yes..
May 02 16:33:08 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: ah - iwconfig i/f power
May 02 16:33:12 <Khertan> ptl, i think i didn't care actually :) as it s sunday
May 02 16:33:25 <javispedro> wlancond (the only opened component besides the kernel) is the one implementing the medium/max gradiation iirc
May 02 16:33:27 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: Is there a way to read back the info?
May 02 16:33:34 <SpeedEvil> thanks
May 02 16:33:52 <Khertan> ptl, i mean it s sunday so probably not connected :)
May 02 16:34:47 <mikki-kun> is there actually a way to get a TTY open on the n900?
May 02 16:34:59 <mikki-kun> not just an xterm
May 02 16:35:23 <javispedro> SpeedEvil: I'm looking at it and MAX => short cam, MED => long cam.
May 02 16:35:44 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: cam?
May 02 16:35:52 <javispedro> no clue either.
May 02 16:35:58 <javispedro> *clue here.
May 02 16:36:08 <SpeedEvil> mikki-kun: yes - you can get it on tty3 on the serial port ont he back reportedly
May 02 16:36:39 <mikki-kun> serial port on the back?
May 02 16:36:59 <mikki-kun> did i kind of miss a port?
May 02 16:37:38 <SpeedEvil> yes - it's under the battery - the gold pads
May 02 16:38:02 <SpeedEvil> however - I don't have details of which is which. Also - these are 1.8V - so you'd need a voltage converter at least
May 02 16:38:08 <RST38h> lcuk: I doubt it is a good idea to spraypaint n900 bezel
May 02 16:38:25 <RST38h> lcuk: the back cover should be paintable though
May 02 16:38:32 <mikki-kun> meh, why does the n900 actually die if you take out the battery but have it in the wall?
May 02 16:39:03 * javispedro knows of older devices that literally die if you remove the battery while charging
May 02 16:39:18 <RST38h> mikki: power and charging circuitry decoupled and only connects throught he battery?
May 02 16:39:37 <mikki-kun> mehhh, bad solution imo
May 02 16:39:39 <RST38h> and hello, javis
May 02 16:39:56 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, no relogin of DocScrutinizer51  for the last 8 minutes ;-P
May 02 16:40:04 <mikki-kun> i mean, what if the battery is broken?
May 02 16:40:04 <javispedro> so it is PSM
May 02 16:40:09 * RST38h would be happier if the word "solution" were only used in its original meaning
May 02 16:40:29 <RST38h> or two meanings, actually.
May 02 16:41:29 <javispedro> ah, someone already bricked his n900 by updating =)
May 02 16:42:13 <lcuk> RST38h, just need to identify them better!
May 02 16:43:40 <mikki-kun> javispedro: good or bad news?
May 02 16:44:15 <RST38h> lcuk: both are well identified in one ancient episode of DrWho
May 02 16:44:31 <lcuk> mm?
May 02 16:44:57 <RST38h> lcuk: Where the injured Doctor is going through his medkit: potion...potion...solution! He drinks the solution, and a wheelchair appears out of nowhere
May 02 16:46:30 * DocScrutinizer wonders why DrWho never gained that popularity in Germany
May 02 16:46:35 <RST38h> Anyone knows anuthing about Ubuntu 10.04 and MaemSDK+?
May 02 16:46:53 <RST38h> DocS: Was shown with the original English soundtrack? :)
May 02 16:47:06 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, cos they are too busy idolising the hoff
May 02 16:47:20 <RST38h> DocS: Most Germans could not understand the British humor or irony? :)
May 02 16:47:27 <frals> RST38h: im running ubuntu 10.04 32bit and maemosdk here
May 02 16:47:27 <Khertan> <javispedro> ah, someone already bricked his n900 by updating =) <<< i count 3 ...
May 02 16:47:39 <RST38h> frals: Yes but is it SB1 or SB2?
May 02 16:47:49 <frals> no idea
May 02 16:47:59 <RST38h> frals: I am using SB2 (can't stand SB1) and wondering if the upgrade will do me good
May 02 16:48:00 <javispedro> Khertan: heh.
May 02 16:48:10 <javispedro> no idea --> sb1 :)
May 02 16:48:15 <RST38h> yep
May 02 16:48:24 <Khertan> one from tmo
May 02 16:48:26 <frals> scratchbox-core                             1.0.16
May 02 16:48:35 <Khertan> and two from a french forum
May 02 16:49:04 <RST38h> ii  scratchbox2                                2.0-lta123
May 02 16:49:23 <RST38h> Khertan: schlemazels.
May 02 16:49:48 <Khertan> RST38h, :)
May 02 16:50:14 <Khertan> but "stupids" is more appropriate ... using a leaked firmware ...
May 02 16:50:22 <javispedro> see why we need international forums on tmo? :)
May 02 16:50:27 <Chiku> someone try QT mobile weather? how to setup country?
May 02 16:50:36 <Khertan> javispedro,  :)
May 02 16:50:52 <Khertan> Chiku, it s not just a demo ?
May 02 16:51:29 <RST38h> Khertan: that is http://www.thefreedictionary.com/schlemiel
May 02 16:51:40 <Chiku> there are 2 packages
May 02 16:52:28 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, for some weird reason N900 gets a new IP with virtually each new DHCP lease on my router. Usually the dhcp server tries to keep IP for a MAC
May 02 16:53:02 <Khertan> depends on the dhcp server
May 02 16:53:04 * DocScrutinizer wonders if N900 is using random MACs for WLAN
May 02 16:53:09 <nid0> router issue? mine tends to assign the same ip fine for my n900
May 02 16:53:10 <Khertan> lol nope
May 02 16:53:16 <nid0> even though i've now statically set it to do so
May 02 16:53:21 <Khertan> the mac is always the same
May 02 16:53:32 * SpeedEvil should probably learn to work out how to setup dhcp.
May 02 16:53:42 * SpeedEvil still just does static.
May 02 16:53:48 <nid0> on a router, its usually a complex as ticking "enable"...
May 02 16:54:09 * DocScrutinizer will config a fixed MAC->IP for N900, on his router
May 02 16:54:19 <nid0> thats what i ended up doing
May 02 16:54:22 <DocScrutinizer> btw still no ping-timeout :-D
May 02 16:54:23 <Khertan> speedevil the best way to use dhcp is to do a : /etc/init.d/dhcpd stop
May 02 16:54:30 <RST38h> DocS: There is an easy way around it
May 02 16:54:31 <nid0> it was almost always giving my device the same ip anyway tho :p
May 02 16:54:44 <DocScrutinizer> though that doesn't proove anything yet
May 02 16:54:48 <RST38h> DocS: Lease IP for a long amount of time, you can usually set this in dhcp client
May 02 16:55:07 <RST38h> DocS: And specifically tie your MAC to a static IP in the router settings
May 02 16:55:07 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: please can you use Doc: rather than DocS:
May 02 16:55:32 <RST38h> Doc: Probably can, but only if you continue reminding :)
May 02 16:57:16 <javispedro> I don't see the need for "fixed" DHCP allocations... just use static IP and a DNS caching proxy on the router (so the settings on every client are easy to remember)
May 02 16:58:13 <javispedro> connecting is slightly faster this way, for a start.
May 02 16:58:17 <nid0> eh? how do client settings get any easier than just leaving them all to dhcp and setting any static addresses you need at the router end?
May 02 16:58:28 <DocScrutinizer> ssh to N900 tends to be an annoyance, with these everchanging IPs
May 02 16:58:31 <javispedro> note "fixed DHCP".
May 02 16:58:41 <javispedro> ofc DHCP (or even private autoassignation) is easier.
May 02 16:59:45 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, use a better router firmware!
May 02 17:00:08 <DocScrutinizer> anyway the router has a "closed" OS (zyxel P660) and I have to live with what DHCP setup offers there
May 02 17:00:51 <Shapeshifter> RST38h: here's a tip. D+Tab == DocScrutinizer
May 02 17:00:52 <RST38h> Doc: I am using fixed IPs for every device in the house
May 02 17:01:09 <RST38h> Shapeshifter: Thank you. It is not gonna work in IRCII
May 02 17:01:14 * RST38h cackles
May 02 17:01:44 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: I'm sharing my WLAN to some neighbours, so no way for a fixed-IP_only setup
May 02 17:01:46 <Shapeshifter> RST38h: and why exactly would you be using ircii?
May 02 17:01:57 <dottedmag> DocScrutinizer: I have installed avahi-daemon and now it's as easy as "ssh hostname.local"
May 02 17:02:00 <RST38h> Because I like it?
May 02 17:02:07 <dottedmag> DocScrutinizer: Installed to N900
May 02 17:02:15 <RST38h> Doc: You do not need to do this to EVERY client, just yours
May 02 17:02:23 <DocScrutinizer> fsck avahi
May 02 17:02:33 <javispedro> hey
May 02 17:02:33 <dottedmag> lol
May 02 17:02:35 <Shapeshifter> RST38h: imainge someone typing in your name everytime
May 02 17:02:36 <javispedro> avahi's not that bad.
May 02 17:02:37 <DocScrutinizer> anyway I doubt my router knows avahi at all
May 02 17:02:43 <dottedmag> lol*2
May 02 17:02:48 <RST38h> Shape: Do I care?
May 02 17:02:53 <dottedmag> DocScrutinizer: no you ever know how does it work?
May 02 17:02:56 <dottedmag> *do
May 02 17:03:18 <Shapeshifter> Arr Ess Tee Thirtyeight eytch
May 02 17:03:26 <javispedro> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=638718
May 02 17:03:37 <javispedro> more, more!
May 02 17:03:39 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: can you not tell your dhcpd to keep off some IPs?
May 02 17:03:42 <DocScrutinizer> not exactly, but I'm sure I need some other avahi-aware devices in my network if I want avahi on N900 to work
May 02 17:03:48 <dottedmag> haha
May 02 17:04:04 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: think of avahi as "distributed DNS service".
May 02 17:04:08 * dottedmag abstains from further comments
May 02 17:04:33 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: each avahi client will known each other avahi client names.
May 02 17:04:46 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, my friend started using a minimac with fsckng avahi in my WLAN. maybe this caused all the trouble
May 02 17:04:47 <dottedmag> javispedro: s/avahi/Zeroconf/ even
May 02 17:04:59 <javispedro> avahi == zeroconf == mdns == bonjour  for me
May 02 17:05:04 * RST38h watched javispedro pray to the Tentacled One
May 02 17:05:42 <dottedmag> javispedro: well, there's non-avahi implementation of Zeroconf from Apple to be precise :-P
May 02 17:05:51 <javispedro> same idea, same concept.
May 02 17:06:22 <dottedmag> Same protocol, I'd say.
May 02 17:06:24 <javispedro> RST38h: I'm sure the tentacled one will enjoy festing upon them.
May 02 17:06:42 <javispedro> I do not have his phone number to ask though =)
May 02 17:06:54 <RST38h> javispedro: Looks like he is already getting some action
May 02 17:07:07 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, I'm not going to add further layers of complexity over a simple concept like DHCP, to cover any problems that arised out of nowhere
May 02 17:08:24 <RST38h> Doc: Static IPs should be sufficient
May 02 17:08:50 <RST38h> If you do not want to assign static IPs to your devices, nothing stops you from continual suffering, we will understand :)
May 02 17:08:58 <nid0> much as I hate to be a bastard, I do find the people now panicing over their dead phones following 1.2 upgrades then downgrading to 1.1.1 rather funny
May 02 17:08:59 <javispedro> ++ :)
May 02 17:09:00 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: and that's roundabout what I'm going to config
May 02 17:09:36 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
May 02 17:09:47 <DocScrutinizer> nid0: ++
May 02 17:10:08 <javispedro> the worst part is that fatalsaint is right in that thread :)
May 02 17:10:17 <javispedro> "I like how people will trust a random new account whose first post is to post a chinese link with a "supposed" leaked firmware enough to risk their phones by flashing it....
May 02 17:10:20 <javispedro> But when a long standing member of the community puts up a simple warning he's discarded outright. Pure genious. "
May 02 17:10:28 <javispedro> (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=638734&postcount=15)
May 02 17:10:41 <javispedro> ah, the people.
May 02 17:10:43 <nid0> well in fairness it has turned out that the leaked firmware is legit enough
May 02 17:10:53 <javispedro> "legit enough?"
May 02 17:11:02 <nid0> its just none of the eagre beavers bothered to check whether it updates the cellular modem and prevents downgrades
May 02 17:11:10 <nid0> and its not like that hasnt happened before.
May 02 17:11:40 <microlith> which package does that?
May 02 17:11:57 <nid0> "legit enough" as in it actually is a firmware image and one that works, rather than just a hoax, it's just that much like 1.1 it upgrades the modem firmware as well
May 02 17:12:12 * lbt gives in and looks at pmo
May 02 17:12:38 <javispedro> ready, smile, and dive in!
May 02 17:12:48 <kthomas_vh> anyone know where to find an ovi maps distro for maemo?
May 02 17:13:26 <javispedro> ah, now someone is suggesting reflashing the emmc!
May 02 17:13:41 <javispedro> which will do wonders considering that on pr1.2 some system stuff is copied to /opt on first boot!
May 02 17:13:47 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: are those 1.2phones really bricked?
May 02 17:14:12 <nid0> well theyre not bricked, theyll carry on working on 1.1.1 with no cell modem, or work on 1.2
May 02 17:14:14 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: they will either have to live with pr1.2 or accept temporary loss of phone functionality. not bricked.
May 02 17:14:31 <DocScrutinizer> fair enough ;-P
May 02 17:15:00 <nid0> afaik after people moaned about the 1.1 issue along the same lines, someone did figure out a method of downgrading the cell modem firmware though
May 02 17:15:24 <nid0> if my memory isnt making that up and it actually worked, the same probably would again
May 02 17:15:45 <Jaffa> nid0: IIRC, didn't they downgrade to PR1.0 and then upgrade one or two bits manually to PR1.1
May 02 17:15:49 <Jaffa> ?
May 02 17:16:23 <nid0> possibly, I just remember there was talk of a workaround that would let 1.0 phones work properly after having the cell firmware upgraded
May 02 17:16:48 <nid0> whether it was by upgrading parts of 1.0 individually to work with the firmware, or by finding a way to downgrade the firmware itself, I wouldnt know for sure
May 02 17:17:00 <DocScrutinizer> well it's quite simple: downgrade to last image containing a modem firmware, then from there upgrade to whatever you want to live with
May 02 17:17:29 <javispedro> the issue is that the chipset will not accept older firmwares afaiu
May 02 17:17:42 <DocScrutinizer> obviously downgrading from a FW-image to a non-FW one doesn't work
May 02 17:17:44 <nid0> I dont think reflashing to an image with an older modem firmware will overwrite the newer firmware
May 02 17:17:57 <DocScrutinizer> that's odd
May 02 17:18:11 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: it's your usual anti-cracking protection.
May 02 17:18:17 <DocScrutinizer> that's *ODD* and *BAD*
May 02 17:20:51 <DocScrutinizer> anyway such a pattern usually is implemented in the firmware itself, so you can 'upgrade' to a FW that doesn't forbid downgrading
May 02 17:21:29 <DocScrutinizer> or you force the modem to use the ROM resident bootstrap flasher rather than the 'OS'-based one
May 02 17:21:38 <javispedro> btw
May 02 17:21:43 <javispedro> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=17727
May 02 17:21:55 <javispedro> the older thread where qwerty12 installed diablo from the official nokia repos
May 02 17:22:29 <javispedro> (before the official release, I mean)
May 02 17:23:08 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
May 02 17:23:23 <javispedro> just to compare reactions =)
May 02 17:23:40 <javispedro> at least back the local hildon guru was the first to try it :)
May 02 17:23:43 <javispedro> *then.
May 02 17:24:41 <wazd> ~seen qwerty12
May 02 17:24:44 <infobot> qwerty12 <n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 149d 23h 45s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'.
May 02 17:24:48 <DocScrutinizer> (downgrading modem firmware) what's the supposed recovery path for a borked modem FW flash?
May 02 17:24:52 <wazd>  mythical person indeed :D
May 02 17:25:18 <DocScrutinizer> yeeha
May 02 17:25:22 <javispedro> heh
May 02 17:25:24 <javispedro> so it's not psm?
May 02 17:25:35 <DocScrutinizer> obviously not
May 02 17:25:51 <javispedro> well bad news, cause you now seemingly have a bad hw?
May 02 17:26:13 <DocScrutinizer> no idea
May 02 17:26:22 <DocScrutinizer> will reflash from scratch
May 02 17:26:25 <wazd> javispedro: DrNokSnes works brilliant on n900 btw :)
May 02 17:26:35 <javispedro> wazd: thanks :)
May 02 17:27:17 * javispedro cackles while reading that thread and watching some people think that maemo 5 would run on "three devices" (n800, n810, n810+1)
May 02 17:28:39 <DocScrutinizer> OMFG 78 pages
May 02 17:31:10 <FIQ> lol @ leaked PR1.2
May 02 17:31:48 <hrw|gone> GeneralAntilles: 21:50 < GeneralAntilles> Hrm, hrw needs to be offered a cloak.
May 02 17:31:50 <hrw|gone> GeneralAntilles: ?
May 02 17:37:41 <GAN900> hrw, you want a Maemo/community/contributor/hrw cloak?
May 02 17:38:05 <DocScrutinizer> ~lart DocScrutinizer51
May 02 17:38:06 * infobot plops DocScrutinizer51 into a giant vat of herring
May 02 17:41:32 <hrw> GAN900: no, I do not want it
May 02 17:42:02 <hrw> GAN900: but I appreciate offer
May 02 17:42:57 * DocScrutinizer51 goes back to WLAN powersave = max
May 02 17:43:13 <hrw> GAN900: I thought about cloaks for freenode few years ago but decided against them. those who know me know that I contribute(d) to maemo, openembedded, opie, gpe, openmoko etc so why limit to one cloak
May 02 17:43:18 <hrw> bye
May 02 17:43:24 <GAN900> hrw, OK
May 02 17:43:26 <Shapeshifter> mh. when I try to ssh -X onto my n900 with DISPLAY set to :2.0 (my Xephyr window), Xephyr segfaults upon connecting. That's odd.
May 02 17:45:29 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: I really doubt occasional packet-loss or app-freeze or whatever causes the xchat ping-timeouts could be a hw issue at all
May 02 17:49:59 <DocScrutinizer> anyone to explain to me the quit-msg reason meanings?
May 02 17:50:58 <DocScrutinizer> (Client Quit). (Quit: Leaving.). (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). (Disconnected by services).  (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
May 02 17:51:08 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: does other stuff do it?
May 02 17:51:23 <SpeedEvil> connection reset by peer may mean 'peer went away'
May 02 17:51:24 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: err, do what?
May 02 17:51:25 <trumee> so leaked firmware does render phone useless. crap
May 02 17:51:34 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: I mean - can you set a laptop to the same as the n900...
May 02 17:52:17 * DocScrutinizer seems really stupid today
May 02 17:52:18 <trumee> strange that phone modem firmware cannot be degraded
May 02 17:53:02 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: read irclog of last ~3h
May 02 17:53:03 <trumee> tmo was exciting today. atleast some people had some joy in the long weekend
May 02 17:53:11 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: grep 'modem'
May 02 17:53:26 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: cheers
May 02 17:53:44 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
May 02 17:53:48 <SpeedEvil> http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/computersecurity/2005-09-20-keystrokes-passwords_x.htm?loc=interstitialskip
May 02 17:53:53 <SpeedEvil> I just realised.
May 02 17:53:57 <SpeedEvil> This would be _really_ cool
May 02 17:54:00 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: so the verdict is, its not good?
May 02 17:54:02 <SpeedEvil> If you could do it with the mic
May 02 17:54:24 <SpeedEvil> Pick up a random keyboard, do some calibration - and just have it work - with no connection at all.
May 02 17:55:11 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=638734&postcount=15
May 02 17:56:04 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: not a good outcome
May 02 17:56:20 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: eavesdrop kbd by keypress unique sounds?
May 02 17:56:29 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: yes
May 02 17:56:44 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: or rather - use keyboard without wired or wireless connection.
May 02 17:57:08 <DocScrutinizer> which is basically the same
May 02 17:57:17 <trumee> i have never used an iphone, but this it have an auto correcting dictionary?
May 02 17:57:31 <SpeedEvil> yes - however eavesdrop means generally covert. This would be intended by the user
May 02 17:57:55 <trumee> typing on small keyboard makes me do spelling mistakes
May 02 17:58:07 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, yes. But my background is generally more of the dark side
May 02 17:58:46 <SpeedEvil> trumee: I'm gettin ~30wpm on the hw keyboard - after taking corrections into account
May 02 17:59:23 <trumee> SpeedEvil: i need much more practice :)
May 02 17:59:32 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, did you ever take a speed test on your 900?
May 02 17:59:35 <SpeedEvil> trumee: My laptop broke for a week
May 02 17:59:41 <lcuk> you type faster on a handheld than anyone i know
May 02 17:59:45 <SpeedEvil> trumee: So I used it for a week
May 02 17:59:52 <trumee> SpeedEvil: do u keep capitals and auto space enabled?
May 02 17:59:59 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you're aware of the plenty different ways to eavesdrop on kbds, monitors, dunno what, by catching their EM radiation and decoding it?
May 02 18:00:03 <SpeedEvil> trumee: no
May 02 18:00:08 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: yes
May 02 18:00:24 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer; however - the n900 doesn't have a means of doing that - it does have  amic.
May 02 18:00:35 <DocScrutinizer> yesyes
May 02 18:00:35 <SpeedEvil> (well - and bluetooth - and maybe a USB host port, but...)
May 02 18:00:58 <trumee> SpeedEvil: i disabled them today. didnt like the fact that it worked in some applications only.
May 02 18:01:27 <SpeedEvil> trumee: that's annoying, yes
May 02 18:01:50 <trumee> maps.google.com and gmail.com standard mode are slow on N900 :(
May 02 18:01:54 <DocScrutinizer> acoustic monitoring/eavesdropping of a kbd is highly prone to errors, and also needs quite some CPU grunt
May 02 18:02:29 <DocScrutinizer> and a mic much better than what we got on N900
May 02 18:03:16 <DocScrutinizer> e.g you'd be interested in 2Hz..200KHz
May 02 18:03:28 <DocScrutinizer> less noise
May 02 18:03:39 <DocScrutinizer> aka beter S7N
May 02 18:03:47 <DocScrutinizer> better S/N
May 02 18:08:40 <wazd> trumee: gmail? slow?
May 02 18:09:27 <Stskeeps> wazd: how's the n900 so far or did you deliver it ahead already?
May 02 18:09:48 <wazd> Stskeeps: no, still playing with it :)
May 02 18:10:04 <wazd> Stskeeps: pretty awesome device, like it almost any way :)
May 02 18:10:15 <wazd> Stskeeps: mediaplayer sucks a bit though
May 02 18:10:34 <ZogG_N900> hey
May 02 18:10:38 <DocScrutinizer> pakistan taliban -> idiots
May 02 18:10:42 <ZogG_N900> mohammadag hey
May 02 18:10:53 <Stskeeps> wazd: i'm quite fond of it, as in, technically, UI wise... no
May 02 18:10:54 <Stskeeps> :P
May 02 18:11:02 <ZogG_N900> docscruitinizer?
May 02 18:11:17 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG_N900: london times square
May 02 18:11:23 <ZogG_N900> oh
May 02 18:11:34 <ZogG_N900> are u from uk?
May 02 18:11:34 <wazd> Stskeeps: well, it's a bit tricky to try to switch the track in landscape mode while walking on a $1k device :D
May 02 18:11:40 <DocScrutinizer> nope
May 02 18:11:54 <ZogG_N900> ur nick is shouting that u r german
May 02 18:12:19 <DocScrutinizer> really? hmmm
May 02 18:12:33 <Stskeeps> wazd: there used to be some shake-to-switch thin
May 02 18:12:33 <ZogG_N900> anyone know where sdk gui installer downloading scratchbox files?
May 02 18:12:35 <Stskeeps> g
May 02 18:12:53 <ZogG_N900> i can't get it cause of proxy but have on laptop
May 02 18:13:05 <Stskeeps> wazd: i'm kinda amazed by sygic for instance, it paused my music while giving turn-by-turn voice directions :P
May 02 18:13:10 <Stskeeps> and turned it back on again afterwards
May 02 18:13:23 <wazd> Stskeeps: heh :)
May 02 18:13:41 <ZogG_N900> it sucks it doesn't have israel in maps
May 02 18:13:55 <Stskeeps> well, go petition your country to make your road map data fre
May 02 18:13:56 <Stskeeps> e
May 02 18:13:59 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: I'd rm -rf it on their server if it didn't
May 02 18:13:59 <Stskeeps> or less costy
May 02 18:14:21 <wazd> Stskeeps: I'm surprised that there are no portrait media player for n900 yet
May 02 18:14:32 <Stskeeps> wazd: i'm amazed there's not that many alternative ones
May 02 18:15:14 <DocScrutinizer> wazd: use typefont CC90
May 02 18:15:20 <DocScrutinizer> ;-P
May 02 18:15:25 <lcuk> wazd, ukmp is portrait - has been since before n900 shipped, konttori put it in and we all said it was the wrong way round
May 02 18:16:12 <wazd>  Stskeeps: but anyways, browser is superb, speed is amazing, stability is really good :)
May 02 18:17:17 <lcuk> Stskeeps, in open source tihngs dont go missing, shake2control should still be around
May 02 18:18:04 <Stskeeps> yeah, it is
May 02 18:18:28 <javispedro> wazd: ah, now I see why you were mentioning drnok =) enjoy!
May 02 18:18:36 <MohammadAG> ZogG_N900, hi
May 02 18:18:39 <wazd> javispedro: :P
May 02 18:18:54 * javispedro didn't know :P
May 02 18:20:58 <lcuk> wazd, how did you do in the competition
May 02 18:21:15 <wazd> lcuk: we've lost, thanks :D
May 02 18:21:37 <lcuk> bah pissy judges dont know quality when it slaps em in face!
May 02 18:21:47 <lcuk> you enjoyed it at fruct?
May 02 18:22:03 <wazd> lcuk: teah, very muck in fact
May 02 18:22:08 <wazd> much*
May 02 18:22:12 <lcuk> is it your first one?
May 02 18:22:17 <wazd> it was a local Summit for me :)
May 02 18:22:22 <wazd> lcuk: nope
May 02 18:22:34 <lcuk> yeah i bet, cool
May 02 18:22:39 <wazd> *but*
May 02 18:23:02 <wazd> I got one more fact that if Nokia wants to give someone a device - it gives no matter what :D
May 02 18:23:37 <lcuk> well even apple cant stop devices falling into the wrong hands
May 02 18:23:46 <DocScrutinizer> sorry for OT: what's been the command to enable/block join/quit-msgs?
May 02 18:24:15 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, i dunno last time i needed one of those was years ago
May 02 18:24:50 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, have you been through the settigns
May 02 18:24:53 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: same here, thanks to GUI ;-P
May 02 18:25:15 <lcuk> wazd, who got one that surprised you then
May 02 18:26:34 <wazd> lcuk: I can tell you who didn't get one and that surprised me :)
May 02 18:27:06 <DocScrutinizer> alas in Kontact you neither can switch the join/quit msgs on a per-chan-basis, nor is there a way to have a convenient shortcut in toolbar or whatever
May 02 18:27:35 <lcuk> well wazd ive been surprised you have been without one for so long :)
May 02 18:27:53 <wazd> lcuk: basically I'm still without it
May 02 18:28:01 <wazd> lcuk: that's not mine actually
May 02 18:28:32 <lcuk> g/me goes rolling on the couch after massive tea anyway
May 02 18:28:35 <lcuk> -g
May 02 18:29:06 <wazd> but I was talking bout javispedro anyways :)
May 02 18:29:35 * javispedro hides
May 02 18:29:57 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: huh?
May 02 18:30:29 <javispedro> that's what I say too: huh?
May 02 18:31:11 <wazd> javispedro: well, you were far from the first row to get the device
May 02 18:31:29 <MohammadAG> Suppose someone updates to PR1.2, the modem is also upgraded, if that person goes down to 1.1.1, and reflashes the CMT, would it work?
May 02 18:31:32 * MohammadAG guesses not
May 02 18:31:56 <lcuk> wazd, huh indeed
May 02 18:31:57 <javispedro> because first (or second) row was in amsterdam
May 02 18:31:59 <sandstorm> I suspect my battery is getting drained too fast, how can I examine the source, btw I use a screen film on my device hope it does not arbitrarily activate proximity sensor while it is off or on.
May 02 18:32:15 <nid0> it may well be, some do
May 02 18:32:19 <nid0> how fast is fast, anyway
May 02 18:32:31 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: reflashes CMT?
May 02 18:33:00 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, GSM firmware
May 02 18:33:48 <DocScrutinizer> sandstorm: 1) use powertop  2) nope
May 02 18:34:27 <javispedro> wazd: btw I have DDP device
May 02 18:34:32 <sandstorm> DocScrutinizer: thanks for enlightenment I am on powertop atm
May 02 18:34:37 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, reason I'm asking is
May 02 18:34:39 <MohammadAG> @SimonLR
May 02 18:34:40 <MohammadAG>   
May 02 18:34:40 <MohammadAG> @MohammadAG Because you can extract the CMT package from PR1.1.1 and flash it onto a RC1.2 device to overwrite the tertiarty GSM firmware.
May 02 18:34:46 <MohammadAG> sorry about the 3 lines
May 02 18:34:47 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: [2010-05-02 19:17:29] <javispedro> the issue is that the chipset will not accept older firmwares afaiu
May 02 18:35:00 <MohammadAG> ty
May 02 18:35:03 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: [2010-05-02 19:17:44] <nid0> I dont think reflashing to an image with an older modem firmware will overwrite the newer firmware
May 02 18:35:14 <MohammadAG> ty again
May 02 18:35:22 <wazd> javispedro: well, it's really nice that your country is not god forsaken land like mine :)
May 02 18:35:27 <MohammadAG> javispedro, mind if I quote that?
May 02 18:35:40 <javispedro> MohammadAG: note the "afaiu" -- I'm not sure.
May 02 18:35:53 <MohammadAG> javispedro, well, FIASCO images have the CMT image in them
May 02 18:36:11 <MohammadAG> and I flashed 1.0 after 1.1.1 (to extract some files) and the SIM wasn't recognized
May 02 18:36:45 <javispedro> wazd: and I still have to wonder why..
May 02 18:36:55 <javispedro> MohammadAG: so feel free to quote your own experience then =)
May 02 18:37:08 <MohammadAG> javispedro, I did, he didn't like it :P
May 02 18:37:39 <Tuukka> aaah, many entertaining threats in talk. This day has been really enjoyable :D
May 02 18:38:23 <ZogG_N900> hm sometimes tab combination stops to work
May 02 18:38:53 <ZogG_N900> i mean fn+backspace
May 02 18:39:54 <Treibholz> ZogG: try ctrl-i
May 02 18:40:11 <sandstorm> how can I figure out what caused a system lock up last time I was doing something just before I removed the battery and do a hard reset?
May 02 18:40:32 <wall[e]> does wiki.maemo.org have a policy for non-english page?
May 02 18:40:42 <DocScrutinizer> sandstorm: no way
May 02 18:40:43 <MohammadAG> cat /proc/bootreason if the shutdown wasn't forced, but you removed the battery so...
May 02 18:40:47 <MohammadAG> ^
May 02 18:40:53 <sandstorm> thanks
May 02 18:41:12 <sandstorm> I thought something like syslogd can help me
May 02 18:41:36 <DocScrutinizer> sandstorm: it would, if you actually have one
May 02 18:41:40 <MohammadAG> why did you pull the battery out? holding the power button should shut it down
May 02 18:41:53 <sandstorm> it did not shut the device down
May 02 18:42:00 <sandstorm> I hold it down and it only turned off the screen
May 02 18:42:03 <sandstorm> and when I press it again
May 02 18:42:07 <sandstorm> it turned on the screen
May 02 18:42:09 <sandstorm> just as it was
May 02 18:42:11 <sandstorm> that was weird
May 02 18:42:19 <lcuk> sandstorm, what were you doing, what strain was the device under?
May 02 18:42:26 <nid0> heh, at least some of the 1.2 upgraders are realising their mistake.....
May 02 18:42:27 <nid0> na lol i feel like a dick. ye this thread is a warning
May 02 18:42:27 <nid0> DONT FLASH with leaked 1.2
May 02 18:42:42 <sandstorm> I was installing mclock on app manager and also was running battery eye app, nothing else.
May 02 18:42:52 <sandstorm> app manager was in background
May 02 18:43:07 <lcuk> then try same again
May 02 18:43:11 <sandstorm> ok
May 02 18:43:14 <lcuk> and if it works ok, forget about it
May 02 18:43:15 <sandstorm> hold on pls
May 02 18:43:33 <sandstorm> if it works some kinda deadlock ?
May 02 18:43:36 <sandstorm> occured on that time
May 02 18:43:40 <sandstorm> I guess
May 02 18:43:40 <lcuk> theres not a lot you can do again in postmortom really if you gave up etc
May 02 18:43:55 <lcuk> if its reproducable its easier to work out
May 02 18:43:59 <Macer> wow
May 02 18:44:06 <sandstorm> ok working on it
May 02 18:44:06 <Macer> is there a way to lower the quality of the  video?
May 02 18:44:16 <Macer> 5 mins @ 180MB seems a little steep for h264
May 02 18:44:27 <freehawaii> I am attempting to mount the root jffs2 image
May 02 18:44:35 <freehawaii> Is there anybody available for a quick brain pick?
May 02 18:45:38 <DocScrutinizer> if it's reproducable then it's friggin easy to work out. Just have a remote terminal open, with a root account on higer prio
May 02 18:46:14 <lcuk> yup DocScrutinizer
May 02 18:46:20 <hrw|gone> can someone with pr1.2 show /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* files?
May 02 18:46:43 <DocScrutinizer> her IS NOBODY with PR1.2
May 02 18:46:52 <freehawaii> RC1.2
May 02 18:47:10 <DocScrutinizer> as everybody here knows pr1.2 will fuck up your modem ;-P
May 02 18:47:27 <b-man> hrw|gone, look at the end of this channel's title ;)
May 02 18:47:37 <sandstorm> lcuk: could not reproduce the issue but the state was it was my very first time running battery eye while mclock was installing in background, also noticed that mclock gives a notification and requires acceptance during installation, maybe that screen somehow could not popup while running battery eye for the very first time(initiating databases etc?)
May 02 18:47:39 <frals> [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/fmms] > cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* from pr1.2 sdk
May 02 18:47:41 <hrw|gone> b-man: I see only first ~100 chars
May 02 18:47:46 <frals> (tis empty)
May 02 18:48:10 <lcuk> yeah sandstorm possible, have a hunt and see if theres any similar reports
May 02 18:48:11 <b-man> "NO PR1.2 YET, askers will get kicked"
May 02 18:48:16 <hrw|gone> ah.
May 02 18:48:17 <hrw|gone> ~pr1.2
May 02 18:48:19 <infobot> pr1.2 is, like, not here yet. Stop asking. Read the topic Just stop asking. Read the topic. AND STOP ASKING.  If you ask then release moves by another week, so do not ask.
May 02 18:48:26 <b-man> LOL
May 02 18:48:28 <sandstorm> I am on it
May 02 18:48:39 <hrw|gone> I am still with 12 November bet
May 02 18:48:40 <Macer> hm
May 02 18:48:50 <Macer> looks like i'm pretty much stuck with the quality it gives you for video huh?
May 02 18:48:53 <Macer> :)
May 02 18:49:32 <MohammadAG> Macer, isn't there an option to lower quality?
May 02 18:49:39 <MohammadAG> I don't use the cam to record video much
May 02 18:50:01 <lcuk> the video from n900 is really crisp
May 02 18:50:07 <lcuk> i love the quality of its macro recording
May 02 18:50:13 <sandstorm> do I need to install powertop on maemo ?
May 02 18:50:45 <Macer> MohammadAG: i am looking for it
May 02 18:50:56 <Macer> but so far i'm not seeing one unless it is somewhere else
May 02 18:50:58 <sandstorm> I mean is it already installed or I guess not
May 02 18:51:05 <DocScrutinizer> sandstorm: yes
May 02 18:51:07 <SpeedEvil> sandstorm: not
May 02 18:51:15 <Macer> i have a 5 min video that wound up being like 180MB.. that's a little too high
May 02 18:51:19 <Macer> lcuk: yeah. it is very nice video :)
May 02 18:51:28 <DocScrutinizer> sandstorm: err, no
May 02 18:51:30 <MohammadAG> ffmpeg -i videoin videoout
May 02 18:51:31 <Macer> i'm updating to lucid on my macbook
May 02 18:51:32 <Macer> heh
May 02 18:51:42 <MohammadAG> should lower it from 180 to 12, and cripple quality big time
May 02 18:51:48 <sandstorm> oh ok, should I apt-get it or does app manager see it somewhere
May 02 18:51:52 <DocScrutinizer> sandstorm: exactly
May 02 18:51:58 <Macer> MohammadAG: i don't want to be forced to re-encode the video
May 02 18:52:04 <Macer> i want to just lower the video bitrate a bit
May 02 18:52:08 <Proteous> ...
May 02 18:52:14 <MohammadAG> Macer, ffmpeg takes 10 seconds to do that
May 02 18:52:25 <Macer> MohammadAG: but that is a redundant step :)
May 02 18:52:27 <lcuk> not on device it doesnt MohammadAG
May 02 18:52:38 <Macer> i hate redundancy
May 02 18:52:45 <Macer> like having to run a debian chroot for an office app heh
May 02 18:52:45 <MohammadAG> lcuk, is ffmpeg available on device?
May 02 18:52:48 <MohammadAG> as an encoder
May 02 18:53:07 <lcuk> i dunno, you are the youthful geezer who can run around the web looking :p
May 02 18:53:09 <Macer> speaking of which. i was going to give the bt keyboard a test run in openoffice
May 02 18:53:13 * lcuk is an old fart
May 02 18:53:15 <MohammadAG> LOL
May 02 18:53:18 <rlinfati> if a found a bug on leaked pr1.2.... i can report on bugzilla ? ( maemo extras app )
May 02 18:53:39 * frals slaps lcuk with a trout, take that old fart!
May 02 18:53:41 <Macer> leaked pr1.2? :) heh. that doesn't sound like a good thing
May 02 18:53:41 <MohammadAG> no, you can't, chances are it got fixed in the 4 weeks that got missed
May 02 18:53:56 <DocScrutinizer> rlinfati: ülease stop telling utter nonsense
May 02 18:54:10 * MohammadAG begs DocScrutinizer to adjust the title
May 02 18:54:16 <MohammadAG> s/title/topic
May 02 18:54:17 * lcuk defends himself with a perch
May 02 18:54:28 <frals> bah, need to write a parser to backup everything from a specific gconfkey
May 02 18:54:38 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: suggestion?
May 02 18:54:49 <Macer> frals: use a bt keyboard and vi
May 02 18:54:50 <Macer> haha
May 02 18:54:52 <MohammadAG> can't find a word for it :P
May 02 18:54:53 <Proteous> IT'S A TRAP!
May 02 18:55:13 <Macer> am i going crazy or is vim a 6MB pkg? :)
May 02 18:55:21 <Proteous> crazy
May 02 18:55:22 <MohammadAG> Talking about 1.2 prohibited, saying anything about 1.2 will get you kicked?
May 02 18:55:27 <b-man> i prefer nano over vi
May 02 18:55:29 * Macer  looks for the qt gui
May 02 18:55:31 <lcuk> Macer, isnt vim an entire operating system?
May 02 18:55:36 <Macer> lcuk: haha
May 02 18:55:36 <Tuukka> Macer, vi is ugly leafpad ftw
May 02 18:55:46 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: too strict
May 02 18:55:46 <MohammadAG> GUI ftl
May 02 18:55:50 <Macer> :)
May 02 18:55:55 <MohammadAG> 1.2 leaks then :)
May 02 18:55:58 <Macer> i don't mind vi that much. and vim is ok
May 02 18:56:00 <frals> Macer: i have actually coded on vi on device
May 02 18:56:02 <b-man> console ftw :DD
May 02 18:56:11 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: too long :-P
May 02 18:56:24 <Macer> but i don't see how vim justifies itself being at a 6MB pkg heh
May 02 18:56:30 <MohammadAG> Talking about 1.2 leaks will get you kicked
May 02 18:56:34 <lcuk> 6mb isnt that big
May 02 18:56:37 <MohammadAG> Twitter has its uses ^
May 02 18:56:40 <Macer> lcuk: how big is vi?
May 02 18:56:42 <Macer> :)
May 02 18:56:48 <lcuk> 2 characters
May 02 18:56:50 <frals> lol
May 02 18:56:56 <lcuk> the m is the kicker
May 02 18:56:56 <b-man> rofl
May 02 18:57:11 <Macer> ahha
May 02 18:57:17 <javispedro> "I was shocked when I found out that a SNES emulator didn't emulate NES!" Shocking!
May 02 18:57:23 <hrw|gone> author of http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=638289&postcount=719 is funny
May 02 18:57:26 <Macer> javispedro: hahahaha
May 02 18:57:30 <summel> how is 1.2 a leak? i thought it got released in hong kong? oO
May 02 18:57:40 <Goliath23> hi
May 02 18:57:50 <Macer> summel: hahahaha! no.. that is the knockoff release
May 02 18:57:59 <DocScrutinizer> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=638734&postcount=15
May 02 18:58:01 <Scelt> http://www.blogsdna.com/9814/nokia-n900-firmware-update-pr-1-2-leaked.htm
May 02 18:58:03 <Macer> like the old punch-out game where you had to fight the white guy instead of mike tyson
May 02 18:58:14 <summel> well they should release it anyways
May 02 18:58:21 <frals> ...
May 02 18:58:23 <summel> io guess i could sue them xD
May 02 18:58:30 <frals> yes try that, please
May 02 18:58:45 * DocScrutinizer kicks scelt
May 02 18:58:46 <Macer> i read an awesome blog about how opensource stuff creates frustration unlike apple who waits until products are done before they announce them :)
May 02 18:58:52 * MohammadAG gets popcorn and passes it to frals 
May 02 18:58:56 <Macer> +1 for the iphone i suppose
May 02 18:59:05 <wall[e]> i think xo-3 looks nice
May 02 18:59:05 <summel> ewww
May 02 18:59:08 <wall[e]> olpc
May 02 18:59:09 <summel> *slaps Macer*
May 02 18:59:11 <wall[e]> (concepts)
May 02 18:59:13 <Macer> :)
May 02 18:59:18 * frals takes the popcorn and runs off to code instead of reading all the bs around the leaked bs
May 02 18:59:22 <Scelt> DocScrutinizer: ? anyone googling "nokia pr 1.2" would see that as the third result. no big secret there
May 02 18:59:25 <Macer> frals: hahaha
May 02 18:59:31 <javispedro> Macer: I read that too and think that they're completely right
May 02 18:59:44 * MohammadAG runs after frals with a trout
May 02 18:59:48 <DocScrutinizer> Scelt: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=638734&postcount=15 also no big secret
May 02 18:59:50 <javispedro> now comes the part where I prefer the frustation instead of the surprises..
May 02 18:59:53 <wall[e]> looking for white paper they uses to design the system
May 02 18:59:58 <wall[e]> used
May 02 19:00:08 <Macer> javispedro: well.. that's the curse of opensource.. not to mention the frustration when they realize there is no true official support other than community support and wind up finding a billion bugs
May 02 19:00:10 <DocScrutinizer> Scelt: and of course the chan topic is no secret
May 02 19:00:49 <Macer> nokia is simply outsourcing
May 02 19:00:50 <Macer> :)
May 02 19:00:54 <Macer> for free
May 02 19:00:55 <Macer> heh
May 02 19:01:29 * lcuk goes coding
May 02 19:01:40 <javispedro> Macer: not really -- I don't believe in the bazaar model much.
May 02 19:02:13 <lcuk> javispedro, you are in it
May 02 19:02:13 <javispedro> they get something ofc, but not that much to be called "outsourcing".
May 02 19:02:20 <Goliath23> anyone using the nokia qt sdk yet? I try to use the simulator, but I only get the message "The program has unexpectedly finished"
May 02 19:02:31 <Macer> javispedro: i dunno. seems like outsourcing to me :)
May 02 19:02:41 <Macer> outsourcing at no cost to themselves
May 02 19:02:46 <Macer> awesome business model
May 02 19:03:02 <javispedro> lcuk: we're also both on a much larger much more cathedral-like  one (maemo itself)
May 02 19:03:02 <Goliath23> when I start the executable in the simulation-build working directory, it starts the simulator but it doesnt react on clicks or anything...
May 02 19:03:07 <mikki-kun> hm, where is the data of the google-widget?
May 02 19:03:13 <Goliath23> (linux 64bit btw.)
May 02 19:03:21 <Macer> it is cheaper to let a hobbyist do their job for them then to pay some real non-3rd world country coder the $80K/yr to make it for them :)
May 02 19:03:28 <mikki-kun> i'd like to change the webaddress of it, so it points to www.google.com and not some mobile version of it
May 02 19:03:56 <Macer> you don't think they actually opensource stuff just because they're "all about the community" do you? nokia is like any other business... all about money :)
May 02 19:04:00 <javispedro> Macer: the hobbyst won't do the 99th iteration of the note pad app. the 3rd world country coder for money will!
May 02 19:04:39 <lcuk> javispedro, do not underestimate just how many "notepad" applications there are in linux
May 02 19:04:40 <javispedro> (the feature-less builtin notepad app -- you can ofc find loads of more complex and more specific note taking apps)
May 02 19:04:45 <lcuk> its almost as many as hello world
May 02 19:04:47 <lcuk> and media players
May 02 19:05:09 <Macer> i think i saw like 10 in the current maemo 5 repos.. :)
May 02 19:05:25 <SpeedEvil> 99th iteration of an app?
May 02 19:05:30 * SpeedEvil points at frals.
May 02 19:05:31 <Macer> but no nano :(
May 02 19:05:42 * frals looks around
May 02 19:05:47 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, frals past 99 on his first day
May 02 19:06:02 <Macer> the hard line is opensource, the bottom line is cash :)
May 02 19:06:10 <javispedro> heh
May 02 19:06:14 <Macer> money unspent is profit
May 02 19:06:25 <Macer> coders cost
May 02 19:07:01 <Macer> create a following and exploit it. i think they took that lesson from religion :)
May 02 19:07:18 <Macer> which is why i love nokia haha
May 02 19:07:22 <javispedro> so where didn't they spent money?
May 02 19:07:40 <Macer> javispedro: they didn't have to pay their own in house coder to make a notepad app ;)
May 02 19:07:53 <javispedro> oh, they did.
May 02 19:07:58 <javispedro> osso-notes is closed :)
May 02 19:08:04 <PerfDave> Thing about free software is that it allows other people to make the same money too though.
May 02 19:08:04 <Macer> LOL
May 02 19:08:07 <Macer> touche
May 02 19:08:37 <Macer> PerfDave: personally i think the opensource stuff helps more on a resume than the pocket
May 02 19:08:43 <javispedro> they didn't have to develop all the hard parts from a UI toolkit...
May 02 19:08:46 <sandstorm> as far as I've read, there should be a Nokia powertop version which had came with N900 original firmware but I cannot find it at the moment.
May 02 19:08:58 <Macer> who wouldn't want to hire the guy who made vi? :)
May 02 19:09:11 * MohammadAG raises hand
May 02 19:09:11 <javispedro> (but third parties usually just license a UI toolkit and are done with it)
May 02 19:09:12 <MohammadAG> :P
May 02 19:09:18 <Macer> because if they did it for free.. imagine what they would make for money
May 02 19:09:29 <luke-jr> vi kinda sucks
May 02 19:09:33 <luke-jr> vim, on the other hand...
May 02 19:09:45 <Macer> luke-jr: i'm sure it didn't suck when it came out
May 02 19:10:01 <luke-jr> Macer: meh, if it was vi vs WordStar, I'd probably go for the latter
May 02 19:10:15 <frals> Macer: quite a difference coding for money and coding for fun - i'd imagine
May 02 19:10:35 <Macer> frals: probably
May 02 19:10:53 <Treibholz> coding for fun is coding for perfection, coding for money is getting it done ASAP.
May 02 19:11:06 <korhojoa> Any of you guys done any assembler coding for ARM ?
May 02 19:11:08 <Macer> i would suspect the largest difference is when you are not a project leader
May 02 19:11:12 <korhojoa> oh, where's PR1.2 ?
May 02 19:11:23 * korhojoa awaits
May 02 19:11:36 <Macer> whereas when making your own stuff you are the project leader
May 02 19:11:45 <Macer> but then again you have limited time and resources
May 02 19:11:51 <chem|st> korhojoa: I wanna get payed to touch assembler again
May 02 19:12:10 <javispedro> Treibholz: coding for fun is usually coding for your own definition of perfection.
May 02 19:12:13 <Macer> anyways. going to make a pizza and relax. it's sunday.
May 02 19:12:21 <javispedro> a lot of times, it doesn't align well with commercial interests.
May 02 19:12:23 <Treibholz> javispedro: yes.
May 02 19:12:28 <javispedro> (but sometimes it does! enjoy those!)
May 02 19:13:44 <wall[e]> you should kick user including a reason in the kicking message
May 02 19:13:45 <korhojoa> :D
May 02 19:14:16 <wall[e]> or that was just for fun
May 02 19:14:48 <javispedro> pr1.2 is old already. when is pr1.3 going to be released?
May 02 19:14:59 <luke-jr> pfft
May 02 19:15:01 <luke-jr> pr1.3
May 02 19:15:04 <luke-jr> screw that
May 02 19:15:06 <luke-jr> I want pr1.5
May 02 19:15:08 <luke-jr> NOW
May 02 19:15:36 * Treibholz wants HURD with e17 on his n900
May 02 19:16:05 <wall[e]> any attempt on porting l4?
May 02 19:16:13 * wall[e] googles
May 02 19:16:19 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, damnit, is it Sunday again? :P
May 02 19:16:20 <shinkamui> so what ever came of that thread of the 1.2 hong kong fw
May 02 19:16:21 <shinkamui> fake?
May 02 19:16:36 <Treibholz> wall[e]: "recent" HURD versions of HURD still runn on MACH
May 02 19:16:36 * Shapeshifter wants nokia to release duke nukem forever for maemo 5 for free please kthx
May 02 19:16:37 <luke-jr> Treibholz: not happening
May 02 19:16:50 <chem|st> shinkamui: 20+ days old RC
May 02 19:16:58 <shinkamui> oh
May 02 19:16:59 <Treibholz> luke-jr: don't destroy my dreams!
May 02 19:17:00 <shinkamui> lamesauce
May 02 19:17:07 <wall[e]> Treibholz, yeh, but i want l4 not hurd :)
May 02 19:17:20 <luke-jr> Treibholz: next time buy a device that can run a free OS
May 02 19:17:33 <ZogG_N900> so anyone here know bug when call ended music starts to play?
May 02 19:17:41 <shinkamui> yea
May 02 19:17:44 <ZogG_N900> is it fixed in pr1.2?
May 02 19:17:46 <shinkamui> my podcasts randomly start
May 02 19:17:47 <shinkamui> :)
May 02 19:17:55 <Treibholz> luke-jr: you mean x86-based?
May 02 19:18:02 <chem|st> ZogG_N900: I got that and its funny
May 02 19:18:20 <wall[e]> hurd should be running over linux with some extensions?
May 02 19:18:29 <ZogG_N900> chem|st, not relly. teacher shoutetmat me at colledge
May 02 19:18:33 <chem|st> ZogG_N900: bugs.maemo.org will tell you that
May 02 19:19:11 <wall[e]> n900 can't run any kernel?
May 02 19:19:24 <chem|st> ZogG_N900: I got more serious stuff to worry about than a teacher yelling at me
May 02 19:19:25 <wall[e]> i thought custom module is allowed
May 02 19:19:39 <arachnist> wall[e]: WTF?
May 02 19:19:46 <arachnist> wall[e]: HURD is HURD, linux is linux
May 02 19:19:46 <Treibholz> wall[e]: I'm sure someone is porting netbsd....
May 02 19:20:02 <wall[e]> arachnist, hurd isn't a kernel
May 02 19:20:02 <arachnist> wall[e]: HURD has virtually no hardware support
May 02 19:20:11 <arachnist> wall[e]: oh, really?
May 02 19:20:11 <wall[e]> more like process threads running around a kernel
May 02 19:20:18 <chem|st> HURD will be ready for release, next year
May 02 19:20:19 <Treibholz> arachnist: you can run linux on top of windows...
May 02 19:20:41 <chem|st> Treibholz: you can run windows on top of linux
May 02 19:20:49 <wall[e]> linux has similar kernel threads implemented
May 02 19:20:50 <hrw|gone> ~hail MTD and NANDSIM
May 02 19:20:51 * infobot bows down to MTD and NANDSIM and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"
May 02 19:20:58 <Treibholz> chem|st: not without virtualisation!
May 02 19:21:06 <hrw|gone> I have pr1.2rc in /mnt/ on my desktop
May 02 19:21:10 <hrw|gone> time to hack
May 02 19:21:35 <arachnist> wall[e]: still, HURD is a kernel of its own
May 02 19:21:41 <Treibholz> chem|st: but linux was ported to windows -> colinux
May 02 19:21:48 <wall[e]> arachnist, nah, its kernel is mach
May 02 19:22:16 <chem|st> Treibholz: wine project does a pretty good job
May 02 19:22:43 <luke-jr> Treibholz: or MIPS... or ARM if you don't need 3D
May 02 19:23:00 <wall[e]> arachnist, or l4
May 02 19:23:11 <luke-jr> wall[e]: the hardware interfaces are not documneted, so propritary drivquired
May 02 19:23:12 <Treibholz> chem|st: thats like... artificial honey
May 02 19:23:15 <wall[e]> very experiment though
May 02 19:23:18 <luke-jr> drivers are required*
May 02 19:23:30 <chem|st> Treibholz: y[]p
May 02 19:23:37 <MohammadAG> lcuk, LOL 2147483648 bytes (2.1 GB) copied, 23.8653 s, 90.0 MB/s
May 02 19:23:41 <MohammadAG> on my PC ^
May 02 19:23:46 <korhojoa> to where?
May 02 19:23:51 <korhojoa> HD to HD ?
May 02 19:24:15 <wall[e]> luke-jr, I see the point, i think it's similar to  nvidia driver though
May 02 19:24:23 <chem|st> why the hell has mmc1 10+ threats per second?
May 02 19:24:39 <wall[e]> still, you can have a kernel sit on a linux kernel w/o much header
May 02 19:24:49 <wall[e]> i think someone actually have hurd running over linux
May 02 19:24:57 <wall[e]> long time ago
May 02 19:25:52 <ZogG_N900> chem|st, oh. you are cool. me sucks, sorry (i hope that will cheer up your ego and leave the "whose penis is longer" conversation behind)
May 02 19:26:49 <wall[e]> (not that i like the nvidia driver idea, i am a fs zealot)
May 02 19:26:58 <wall[e]> (that needs a gf)
May 02 19:27:57 <chem|st> ZogG_N900: back in school I got expelled for stuff like that now the room goes quiet when I answer the phone
May 02 19:28:55 <GeneralAntilles> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=638967
May 02 19:28:57 <GeneralAntilles> I love that thread.
May 02 19:29:12 <chem|st> ZogG_N900: was not to offend you ;) I have laugh when ppl forget to turn their phone of, was like sports to call ppl while in class to check if they forgot to turn it off
May 02 19:29:17 <luke-jr> wall[e]: the whole point of HURD is that it's not Linux
May 02 19:30:03 <wall[e]> luke-jr, I think they are 2 separated thing. sure large part of linux do what hurd are
May 02 19:30:08 * GAN900 notes Summer is officially here in Florida.
May 02 19:30:18 <chem|st> luke-jr: thought it was that it's release date is fixed... "Next Year"
May 02 19:31:19 <wall[e]> luke-jr, but I dont want hurd, not that i like the concept, just too much involved with linux
May 02 19:31:25 <luke-jr> wall[e]: HURD and Linux are like ext3 and reiserfs
May 02 19:31:39 <luke-jr> they are two separate programs that do the same thing
May 02 19:31:42 <luke-jr> exclusive to each other
May 02 19:32:00 <wall[e]> luke-jr, you can sit hurd on linux, but can you sit ext3 on reiserfs?
May 02 19:32:09 <luke-jr> most people who use a Linux-based OS would never notice the difference if it was replaced with HURD
May 02 19:32:16 <luke-jr> wall[e]: no to both
May 02 19:32:26 <Dima202> Can someone please explain to me why new cell module firmware is not downgradeable is this Nokia's plan to control what firmware you want to use?
May 02 19:32:28 <freehawaii> luke-jr, yes they would.
May 02 19:32:29 <luke-jr> if you're using Linux, you're not using HURD
May 02 19:32:40 <freehawaii> GNU/HURD is ridiculously different than GNU/Linux
May 02 19:32:41 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: The modem firmware is _always_ completely closed.
May 02 19:32:46 <wall[e]> luke-jr, i think someone make hurd running on linux
May 02 19:32:54 <wall[e]> was a very experiment though
May 02 19:32:59 <luke-jr> wall[e]: that doesn't make logical sense
May 02 19:33:00 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: there is absolutely no chance it will ever be opened up - they cannot legally do this.
May 02 19:33:07 <luke-jr> wall[e]: sounds like Xen
May 02 19:33:11 <freehawaii> wall[e], you're showing your ignorance
May 02 19:33:12 <wall[e]> luke-jr, whynot? hurd isn't a kernel on its own
May 02 19:33:18 <wall[e]> luke-jr, it runs on mach
May 02 19:33:19 <luke-jr> HURD *is* a kernel
May 02 19:33:24 <luke-jr> Mach is just part of it
May 02 19:33:30 <freehawaii> HURD is a kernel with a bunch of translators sitting on top.
May 02 19:33:41 <wall[e]> well, ok.
May 02 19:33:46 <Dima202> SpeedEvil, oh so fcc is to blame got ya
May 02 19:33:52 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: Dima202 didn't ask to open it
May 02 19:33:58 <PerfDave> HURD on Linux worked like User Mode Linux - the HURD microkernel ran as a Linux userspace process.
May 02 19:33:59 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: he asked why he can't use an older version
May 02 19:34:01 <wall[e]> not that i agreed :)
May 02 19:34:16 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: It is. I'm thinking of hacking on crashanddie's scripts at some point so that in-week editing is less painful
May 02 19:34:34 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: He also asked 'is it nokias plan to control which firmware' - which I was answering
May 02 19:34:35 <Dima202> luke-jr, yeah why cant i use an older version?
May 02 19:34:38 <SpeedEvil> (it is)
May 02 19:34:38 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Two front stories selected. One completed.
May 02 19:34:43 <GAN900> Jaffa, cool.
May 02 19:34:50 <GAN900> Jaffa, I reworked the titles.
May 02 19:34:56 <Jaffa> GAN900: Time to spend time with the missus, then back at it.
May 02 19:34:59 <wall[e]> hurd processes run in ring 0?
May 02 19:35:00 <Jaffa> GAN900: I saw; cool.
May 02 19:35:02 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: because a common exploit in the past has been for users to roll back the version number of firmware to an exploitable kernel
May 02 19:35:02 <GAN900> Jaffa, will come back to the stories later.
May 02 19:35:18 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: If you stop that being possible, then you reduce the risk of exploits.
May 02 19:35:26 <wall[e]> n/m i should give up
May 02 19:35:31 <lcuk> GAN900, words per minute on you 900?
May 02 19:35:36 <lcuk> your
May 02 19:35:38 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: if it's the user, it's not an exploit
May 02 19:35:44 <Jaffa> GAN900: 42 stories so far!
May 02 19:35:45 <lcuk> any idea how high it is
May 02 19:35:53 <wall[e]> not that i didn't have any background in linux network and mm though.
May 02 19:35:55 <Macer> hm. lucid kubuntu
May 02 19:35:58 <Macer> interesting
May 02 19:36:01 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: you claim the FCC requires this upgrade-only design??
May 02 19:36:11 <Macer> sure wish linux used zfs
May 02 19:36:16 <Macer> with beadm
May 02 19:36:19 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: an exploitable phone module that is abused by some users - once nokia is notified of this - they have to fix it - or stop selling it in the UK for example.
May 02 19:36:26 * luke-jr smacks Macer
May 02 19:36:40 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: No - I'm saying they require that it not be hacked - nothing more than this.
May 02 19:36:43 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: they have to force users to upgrade and prevent downgrades?
May 02 19:37:06 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: The law - at least in the UK - doesn't mandate any security at all.
May 02 19:37:06 <Macer> luke-jr: could be worse... could be gentoo :)
May 02 19:37:09 <sandstorm> how can I see a package which is under contrib/utils in app manager?
May 02 19:37:33 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: It simply says that if you sell a device which can be used by users to do _list_of_bad_things_ - you are liable of an offence
May 02 19:37:36 <DocScrutinizer> wall[e]: (you should kick user including a reason in the kicking message) too lazy, as kicking via GUI doesn't allow to provide a reason
May 02 19:37:36 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: we're not discussing security, we're discussing control
May 02 19:37:46 <MohammadAG> tar xzf <meego-image> -C $MEEGO_ROOT <-- is meego-image the .img file or the .tar.gz?
May 02 19:37:46 <Jaffa> sandstorm: You can't, easily. It's not designed to be user installable. Use apt-get from X Terminal or bug the packager.
May 02 19:37:50 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: after you've been notified that this is happening and you do not move to rectify it
May 02 19:38:08 <MohammadAG> think it's the .tar.gz since the command is tar
May 02 19:38:11 <Dima202> SpeedEvil, I dont understand what this is all about. All calls are encrypted at least here in the US.  Even if you where able to access this part of the system, how much harm could you really do?
May 02 19:38:12 <wall[e]> DocScrutinizer, too lazy isn't a good community policy.
May 02 19:38:16 <GAN900> lcuk, was hitting about 50-65 with that test the other day.
May 02 19:38:33 <sandstorm> Jaffa: I asked this just to install powertop, as I've read it should be included in the original N900 firmware but I could not find that.
May 02 19:38:47 <DocScrutinizer> wall[e]: in this case nobody needed a reason
May 02 19:38:48 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: Lots.
May 02 19:38:51 * MohammadAG looks at what GAN900 said and takes it as a challenge
May 02 19:39:01 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: For example - imagine a 'free data transfer' app.
May 02 19:39:05 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-05-02 21:11:12] <korhojoa> oh, where's PR1.2 ?
May 02 19:39:06 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-05-02 21:11:22] * korhojoa awaits
May 02 19:39:17 <Macer> heh
May 02 19:39:18 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: that transferred files at high speed between two phones - without going through the towers.
May 02 19:39:19 <wazd> is flashlight applet developer here? :)
May 02 19:39:32 <Macer> PR stands for public release?
May 02 19:39:35 <wall[e]> DocScrutinizer, yes, i was slow, thanks.
May 02 19:39:37 <Dima202> SpeedEvilm and something is wrong with that?
May 02 19:39:39 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: This can knock out dozens of calls in progress, perhaps including emergency calls.
May 02 19:39:53 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: Over a range of many kilometers.
May 02 19:40:09 <an0therb0x> when will the n900 be getting voice navigation... this is not right
May 02 19:40:20 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: The cellphone is half of an invention. The other half is the tower that coordinates all of the phones so they don't interfere.
May 02 19:40:37 <Dima202> SpeedEvil, The other phone would have to accept the transfer for the data to go through though]
May 02 19:40:37 <wall[e]> how hard it is to have virtual keyboard translucent?
May 02 19:40:58 <freehawaii> Dima202, so it would only take 2 users to knock out an area of service
May 02 19:40:59 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: yes - I'm assuming for the moment that this is two n900s.
May 02 19:40:59 <Dima202> SpeedEvil, Unless your talkinga bout Denial of Service attacks
May 02 19:41:02 <luke-jr> [14:39:19] <SpeedEvil> Dima202: that transferred files at high speed between two phones - without going through the towers.
May 02 19:41:10 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: that's the owners' right
May 02 19:41:30 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: To potentially disrupt emergency calls?
May 02 19:41:34 <luke-jr> no
May 02 19:41:43 <Dima202> to transfer large files without the tower
May 02 19:41:46 <luke-jr> that's when the government triangulates the interference and makes an arrest :)
May 02 19:42:01 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: Using the radio spectrum in the phone band without the towers consent _will_ disrupt calls.
May 02 19:42:33 <Macer> luke-jr: haha. that would take like a week for an 800 lb gorilla :)
May 02 19:42:37 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: not necessarily
May 02 19:42:52 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: yes, necesarrily.
May 02 19:42:54 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: a smart device could listen and track which parts are unused and only use those
May 02 19:42:58 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: It can't.
May 02 19:43:03 <Dima202> SpeedEvil, Couldn't I just build a transmitter which would operate at cell phone frequency disrupting communications just as easily?
May 02 19:43:07 <luke-jr> why not? it has all the info the tower has
May 02 19:43:08 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: As the device cannot pick up the tower.
May 02 19:43:44 <PerfDave> You can always use the same CSMA protocol that the cellular network does?
May 02 19:43:46 <Dima202> I think this security measure is bullshit (pardon my french)
May 02 19:43:48 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: Consider two phones on one side of the tower 2km away from it, and another phone 10km from the tower, but behind a hill to the two phones.
May 02 19:44:12 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: ah, true
May 02 19:44:18 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: the two phones start transmitting on the 'free' channel - that's being used by the other phone that they can't see.
May 02 19:44:33 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: And the far phone drops out.
May 02 19:44:50 <Macer> hm. nightvision for the cam? :) does it use the IR or something? haha
May 02 19:44:50 <PerfDave> Dima202: Most security measures are :)
May 02 19:44:55 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: in any case, that's for the government to deal with, not the company
May 02 19:45:11 <wall[e]> btw, i think you can sit reiserfs over any fs?
May 02 19:45:24 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: And part of the way it's dealt with is - in the UK - saying 'if your phone is exploited, you can't sell it until you fix it'
May 02 19:45:36 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: it's not their phone
May 02 19:45:38 <luke-jr> it's mine
May 02 19:45:40 <luke-jr> I bought it
May 02 19:45:40 <Macer> i didn't think people still used reiserfs since the conviction
May 02 19:45:46 <wall[e]> i was thinking about that, like i want a file system that can sit on fat32
May 02 19:45:49 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: where 'you' in this case is nokia
May 02 19:45:55 <luke-jr> Nokia has no claim to my phone
May 02 19:46:01 <wall[e]> if there file was too big then it auto split the file
May 02 19:46:02 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: sorry for being unclear
May 02 19:46:02 <freehawaii> luke-jr, you really are daft.
May 02 19:46:03 <luke-jr> I paid them for it, it's mine
May 02 19:46:13 <SpeedEvil> s/your/nokia/
May 02 19:46:17 <wall[e]> so you can still mount with other os
May 02 19:46:20 <freehawaii> luke-jr, That's fine. However Nokia would be barred from selling any device that has such a vulnerability
May 02 19:46:25 <luke-jr> ok
May 02 19:46:43 <luke-jr> but the user being able to do it isn't a vulnerability
May 02 19:46:47 <SpeedEvil> (also luke-jr would be banned from selling it on ebay - if he knew) (but enforcement of that would be harder)
May 02 19:46:48 <luke-jr> it's their device after all
May 02 19:46:55 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: From nokias POV - it absolutely is.
May 02 19:47:00 <freehawaii> luke-jr, The user being able to do it would be a security hazard.
May 02 19:47:01 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: Imagine this.
May 02 19:47:02 <luke-jr> Nokia has no relevance in this matter
May 02 19:47:15 <luke-jr> Nokia has no claim to my phone or the network I'm using
May 02 19:47:17 <freehawaii> luke-jr, Nokia sold you the device, Nokia holds QC and security over the device before sales begin.
May 02 19:47:38 <freehawaii> luke-jr, Had nokia been away of such an exploitable hole, you wouldn't be holding the device, at this moment in time.
May 02 19:47:57 <luke-jr> freehawaii: Nokia has no right to restrict how I use my phone once I buy it
May 02 19:48:06 <freehawaii> luke-jr, We are not arguing that.
May 02 19:48:10 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: An app gets released for the n900 that allows file sharing between nearby phones without going through the towers. Imagine if there are a hundred phones in an area. If it's moderately popular, it could easily take up _large_ slices of the phone spectrum.
May 02 19:48:11 <luke-jr> their attempt to take control by proprietary software is abuse
May 02 19:48:12 <freehawaii> luke-jr, We're talking about AFTER the FACT.
May 02 19:48:23 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: Causing most phonecalls in the area to fail.
May 02 19:48:37 * frals facepalms
May 02 19:48:42 <luke-jr> so treat that app as you would treat a virus
May 02 19:48:53 <luke-jr> arrest the author, announce it as illegal, and arrest people using it
May 02 19:48:59 <luke-jr> or cite users
May 02 19:49:05 <freehawaii> luke-jr, or fix the issue at the source.
May 02 19:49:13 <luke-jr> freehawaii: the source is the app author
May 02 19:49:20 <freehawaii> luke-jr, no, the source is the vulnerability.
May 02 19:49:22 <SpeedEvil> From nokias POV - the above is a PR _DISASTER_
May 02 19:49:26 <luke-jr> it's not a vulnerability
May 02 19:49:30 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: not my problem
May 02 19:49:39 <freehawaii> luke-jr, Yes it is. It's a security HOLE.
May 02 19:49:53 <SpeedEvil> As well as a sales disaster - they will have to stop selling phones till it's fixed.
May 02 19:49:53 <luke-jr> freehawaii: the ability for ME to control MY phone is not a security problem
May 02 19:49:59 <luke-jr> now, if the app can do it without my consent, perhaps
May 02 19:50:09 <Dima202> SpeedEvil, why do you think if people start sharing via their phones then people wont be able to make calls? The TOWER is not involved so no load on the tower.
May 02 19:50:13 <SpeedEvil> So - obviously they encrypt teh firmware.
May 02 19:50:17 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: yes it is.
May 02 19:50:20 <freehawaii> luke-jr, for fucks sake - from Nokia's POV, from the carrier POV and from the governments POV - it is a security problem.
May 02 19:50:27 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: the problem is that signals don't go from A-B
May 02 19:50:29 <freehawaii> luke-jr, The world does not revolve around you.
May 02 19:50:38 <luke-jr> freehawaii: my property DOES revolve around me.
May 02 19:50:45 <luke-jr> how I use it is my own responsibility
May 02 19:50:48 <Dima202> SpeedEvil, are you familiar with ham radio?
May 02 19:50:51 <freehawaii> luke-jr, You don't own the spectrum you'd be fucking up on.
May 02 19:51:01 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: 'A' transmits, and it is picked up (at various strengths) by B, and all of the stations in range.
May 02 19:51:02 <frals> obviously the goverments view on the issue differs from your luke-jr
May 02 19:51:13 <frals> and unless you get them to change, id say your fucked
May 02 19:51:37 <frals> s/your/you're
May 02 19:51:54 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: One transmission on a frequency can jam dozens of calls that are sharing the same frequency.
May 02 19:52:16 <Dima202> SpeedEvil, Even if the tower picks up the data it does not process it in any ways.. It need a sort of password to process any data/voice
May 02 19:52:18 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: Phone networks only work well as the towers coordinate all of the calls between them.
May 02 19:52:31 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: It's not a case of picking it up.
May 02 19:52:36 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: it's a case of jamming.
May 02 19:52:43 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: get a brain
May 02 19:53:18 <ZogG_N900> chem|st, the point is that i turn it silent but still it's music player  and i'm at school now only cause i was in army for 3 years.
May 02 19:53:20 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: If I shout back and forth to a friend 50m away, it makes you having a soft conversation with someone 5m away very difficult.
May 02 19:54:16 <mikki-kun> hey uhm, can anybody tell me the path where "libgooglesearchwidget.so" is located?
May 02 19:54:22 <Dima202> SpeedEvil, Alright think about 100 people talking to a tower at the same time
May 02 19:54:28 <mikki-kun> would need that really ;/
May 02 19:54:31 <SimonLR> mikki-kun, find / | grep it
May 02 19:54:42 <mikki-kun> yeah, i just got my n900 in a loop
May 02 19:54:45 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: They are all carefully allocated by the tower specific times and frequencies to talk on.
May 02 19:54:47 <luke-jr> SimonLR: so if I mess w/ the frequency illegally, prosecute me
May 02 19:54:47 <mikki-kun> and therefore can't search
May 02 19:54:54 <mikki-kun> it's in a boot-loop
May 02 19:54:57 <DocScrutinizer> GSM is a cooperative media-sharing network, like e.g. your 10BT ethernet over coax. Any participant not strictly following the rules will mess up everything
May 02 19:55:02 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: It is organised by the tower so that no two phones transmit to it at once.
May 02 19:55:27 <mikki-kun> but still if i am fast enough it could connect to wlan, i ssh there and delete my "transformed" file
May 02 19:55:32 <mikki-kun> and replace it with the original one
May 02 19:55:37 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: this means that a phone 10km away can be recieved - as no other phones transmit in its slot.
May 02 19:55:52 <SimonLR> mikki-kun, /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/libgooglesearchwidget.so
May 02 19:55:54 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: even though a phone 1km from it will have a much stronger signal.
May 02 19:56:03 <mikki-kun> thanks
May 02 19:56:11 <mikki-kun> that'll help me really really much :)
May 02 19:56:23 <Dima202> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM_frequency_bands
May 02 19:56:42 <DocScrutinizer> Dima202: so waht?
May 02 19:56:56 <zokier> luke-jr, problem is that atleast some legislations afaik its illegal to sell equipment which enables you to mess with licenced frequencies
May 02 19:57:18 <SpeedEvil> UK and US at least.
May 02 19:57:29 <SpeedEvil> To my knowledge. Probably more places.
May 02 19:57:29 <SimonLR> All of North America.
May 02 19:57:38 <DocScrutinizer> zokier: exactly
May 02 19:57:39 <hrw> re
May 02 19:57:45 <SimonLR> FCC and IC restrict it.
May 02 19:57:47 <lardman|home> hey hrw
May 02 19:57:56 <SpeedEvil> hey
May 02 19:58:04 <luke-jr> zokier: the problem is that "enables" is too broadly defined
May 02 19:58:13 <lardman|home> hrw: dunno if someone mentioned it to you already, but GAN900 wanted to ask you about a cloak
May 02 19:58:14 <hrw> my n900 will have a chance of getting that prc1.2 by ota
May 02 19:58:23 <hrw> lardman|home: we discussed that already
May 02 19:58:24 * lardman|home is probably a week behind the times mind you
May 02 19:58:25 <SimonLR> luke-jr, no it's not. EU, FCC and IC define it clearly.
May 02 19:58:32 <lardman|home> hrw: good good
May 02 19:58:32 <luke-jr> SimonLR: clearly too broad
May 02 19:58:39 <hrw> lardman|home: and I refused to use maemo cloak
May 02 19:58:47 <Dima202> SpeedEvil, So your saying every phone transmits at a different frequency ex. ph1=1850.0001 ph2=1850.0002 etc..
May 02 19:58:52 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: yes
May 02 19:58:53 <lardman|home> hrw: :)
May 02 19:59:03 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: that's your opinion, everyone has one
May 02 19:59:05 <mikki-kun> meh, a second too slow >.<
May 02 19:59:06 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: the tower says to the phone 'transmit on channel 73'
May 02 19:59:10 <Macer> oh hell yeah
May 02 19:59:11 <Macer> V is back
May 02 19:59:12 <hrw> lardman|home: I will repeat for you: I thought about cloaks for freenode few years ago but decided against them. those who know me know that I contribute(d) to maemo, openembedded, opie, gpe, openmoko etc so why limit to one cloak
May 02 19:59:12 <Macer> :)
May 02 19:59:27 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: where it knows that channel 73 is free, and not in use by other towers or phones in the area
May 02 19:59:43 <hrw> ~hail dpkg-repack
May 02 19:59:44 <lardman|home> hrw: sure, was just passing it on
May 02 19:59:44 * infobot bows down to dpkg-repack and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"
May 02 19:59:57 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: + "... on timeslice 14, with a time advance of 4 bits"
May 02 19:59:57 <Dima202> SpeedEvil, I didn't realise the cellphone network worked in this manner.. logical
May 02 20:00:06 <lardman|home> hrw: I suppose the real reason for a cloak, rather than saying what you do/have done, is to hide your IP
May 02 20:00:14 <Dima202> What about two providers using the same frequencies and different towers?
May 02 20:00:23 <Dima202> Example ATT and T-Mobile
May 02 20:00:23 <mikki-kun> ohhh, i was fast enough :D
May 02 20:00:27 <hrw> lardman|home: no, it is to say something
May 02 20:00:29 <mikki-kun> thanks SimonLR :D
May 02 20:00:36 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: they all cooperate to set this up so that no phones interfere
May 02 20:00:44 <DocScrutinizer> Dima202: that won't happen
May 02 20:00:45 <SimonLR> mikki-kun, No problem
May 02 20:00:47 <lardman|home> hrw: fair enough, I had the wrong idea then :)
May 02 20:00:56 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: either by negotiation, or by being allocated by the government specific slots
May 02 20:00:59 <mikki-kun> at least i know now that just hexediting is bad
May 02 20:01:09 <SimonLR> mikki-kun, take a look at rescue-boot
May 02 20:01:27 <mikki-kun> i am not sure how that works
May 02 20:01:37 <mikki-kun> didn't tell me how i can start it ;/
May 02 20:02:09 <SimonLR> mikki-kun, /etc/rescue-boot.d/ houses the scripts you wantrun
May 02 20:02:43 <mikki-kun> hm, and how do i place them there on a loop-booting machine?
May 02 20:02:57 <hrw> lardman|home: but thats my opinion :D
May 02 20:03:04 <lardman|home> np :)
May 02 20:03:11 <SimonLR> mikki-kun, just for future reference.
May 02 20:03:16 <hrw> 1720 packages generated from rc1.2 rootfs
May 02 20:03:45 <lardman|home> I've not had a chance to look at it
May 02 20:04:07 <hrw> lardman|home: nandsim + ubifs == access to rootfs without using n900
May 02 20:04:08 <lardman|home> though from some of the "this isn't working any more..." threads on TMO, I may wait until the official release too ;)
May 02 20:04:26 <mikki-kun> well, still i am not quite getting the idea >.< sorry
May 02 20:04:29 <lardman|home> hrw: ah interesting, I was wondering how to mount the ubifs rootfs
May 02 20:04:59 <hrw> lardman|home: http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/ubifs.html#L_ubifs_extract
May 02 20:05:09 <SimonLR> lardman|home, , it's fairly easy.
May 02 20:05:21 <lardman|home> hrw: thanks
May 02 20:05:32 <lardman|home> SimonLR: yeah, was just idle wondering, I'd not looked
May 02 20:05:58 <SimonLR> lardman|home, ah. There's a thread on maemo.org for it.
May 02 20:06:21 <lardman|home> thanks
May 02 20:06:32 <SimonLR> lardman|home, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35554&highlight=rootfs.jffs2
May 02 20:06:35 <lardman|home> as a random aside, I see the Pandora has still not shipped
May 02 20:07:04 <lardman|home> SimonLR: ah, that's jffs2, the old fs
May 02 20:07:20 <hrw> lardman|home: no, thats ubifs but wrongly named
May 02 20:07:23 <SimonLR> lardman|home,  there's a post by x86 that has UBIFS
May 02 20:07:24 <lardman|home> ah, the thread has ubifs too
May 02 20:07:32 <lardman|home> cool
May 02 20:07:33 <SimonLR> lardman|home, I just exacted RC1.2 and it works.
May 02 20:07:59 <SimonLR> hrw, is it possible to re-build FULL FIASCO images?
May 02 20:08:36 <hrw> SimonLR: no idea
May 02 20:08:40 <lardman|home> didn't used to be
May 02 20:08:45 <hrw> SimonLR: but flasher can flash most of parts
May 02 20:09:10 <lardman|home> though 0xffff may be able to flash from the FIASCO format, so have a look there
May 02 20:09:21 <SimonLR> hrw: Yeah I know, but a complete FIASCO image would be nice for ease of portability.
May 02 20:10:08 <hrw> SimonLR: but it is undocumented iirc
May 02 20:10:09 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: users claiming they are masters of their phone's GSM stack and same time assuming GSM is similar to silly walkytalky - they seem to me of same mindset like the OC fanboys claiming they could outsmart TI wrt electromigration
May 02 20:10:43 <SpeedEvil> It is somewhat subtle.
May 02 20:10:59 <SpeedEvil> And easy for those that haven't looked into it to misunderstand.
May 02 20:14:23 <SimonLR> DocScrutinizer, Not all OC users are touting non-issue.
May 02 20:14:47 <SimonLR> DocScrutinizer, Some are simply saying the level of life decrease isn't a huge mitigating factor for them.
May 02 20:15:00 <DocScrutinizer> that's ok to me
May 02 20:15:28 <lardman|home> ah, not Orange County, Over-Clocking... it all becomes clear now ;)
May 02 20:15:57 <SimonLR> lardman|home, oh, I was talking about Orange Crush, the soda.
May 02 20:16:03 <lardman|home> lol
May 02 20:16:13 <mece> wtf texrat thread!
May 02 20:16:14 <mece> ?
May 02 20:16:24 <lardman|home> linky?
May 02 20:16:32 <mece> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=639057
May 02 20:16:36 <chem|st> not again
May 02 20:16:47 <mece> funny one :)
May 02 20:16:53 <mece> there was a texrat thread before+
May 02 20:16:55 <mece> ?
May 02 20:16:59 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=son+of+orange+county&aq=0
May 02 20:17:38 <wall[e]> is texrat here?
May 02 20:17:54 <mece> ~seen texrat
May 02 20:17:56 <infobot> texrat <~ad4a12f4@Maemo/community/council/Texrat> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 21h 50m 33s ago, saying: 'tsg meeting tomorrow bitches'.
May 02 20:18:01 <wall[e]> thanks.
May 02 20:18:01 <mece> no
May 02 20:18:11 <wall[e]> ok :)
May 02 20:18:23 <lardman|home> DocScrutinizer: I was thinking more of the TV program with bikini-clad young women
May 02 20:19:00 <lardman|home> hmm, I can't really see texrat saying that
May 02 20:19:18 <wall[e]> i'm considering buying an ironman helmet but will wait until it runs maemo.
May 02 20:19:33 <hrw> 4 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1084 not upgraded.
May 02 20:19:40 <hrw> quite lot for OTA...
May 02 20:19:43 <MohammadAG> wtf ^
May 02 20:19:46 <wall[e]> ~$80
May 02 20:20:56 <wall[e]> want built in maemo in the eyeglasses
May 02 20:21:10 <chem|st> mece: teh funny stuff comes last
May 02 20:22:10 <lardman|home> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=639059&postcount=43 'tis so true
May 02 20:22:20 <lardman|home> I don't recognise hald the usernames in that thread
May 02 20:22:31 <lardman|home> s/hald/half
May 02 20:22:44 <wall[e]> someone should came up with the integrated os for biking helmet, http://tinyurl.com/3ax7rls
May 02 20:22:58 <wall[e]> ok, offtopic
May 02 20:23:00 <wall[e]> sorry
May 02 20:23:51 <lardman|home> wall[e]: that's not a biking helmet is it?
May 02 20:24:44 <lardman|home> though the button activated slide down eye visors may be good when it rains
May 02 20:24:49 <lardman|home> :)
May 02 20:25:00 <Wolfie> sorry for butting in in the middle, but what has texrat done regarding the pr1.2, and what's this about resigning?
May 02 20:25:24 <lardman|home> I think he closed the thread about the leak/edited out the url and now is getting flak
May 02 20:25:43 <lardman|home> that's my guess anyway, not having been watching very closely
May 02 20:25:53 <mece> Wolfie, lardman|home, he did not close the thread. That was apparently the problem.
May 02 20:25:59 <Wolfie> okay
May 02 20:26:07 <lardman|home> ah ok
May 02 20:26:08 <mece> ~seen Bummer
May 02 20:26:10 <infobot> bummer <i=Anonymou@66-190-197-138.dhcp.rnrp.nc.charter.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #norganna, 492d 23h 42m 49s ago, saying: 'ok thanks again'.
May 02 20:26:16 <mece> ok..
May 02 20:26:18 <mece> eh
May 02 20:26:47 <mece> well I guess bummer isn't on irc. Anyway tmo user "Bummer" took offense in Texrat not closing the thread end sensoring the links and whatnot
May 02 20:26:59 <Macer> lardman|home: that's why i don't really use the forums much :)
May 02 20:27:14 <Macer> only for information like how to do things. general discussion is better done on irc here
May 02 20:27:17 <wall[e]> lardman, not sure but will buy it for biking.
May 02 20:27:39 <mece> While I think Texrat did a pretty good job warning everyone that it was in no way official and to be careful and whatnot.
May 02 20:27:47 <wall[e]> may be that's a suicide :S
May 02 20:27:49 <Wolfie> oh, to be on-topic, on my n900, i have a desktop with two contact shortcuts. Alas, yesterday I noticed that that desktop is blank. I tried to re-add those contacts, but those contacts aren't shown in the list. I'm guessing the contacts are somewhere there, but just not shown
May 02 20:27:55 <lardman|home> Macer: I had been steering clear, and now I'm back there are far too many new posts to keep track of
May 02 20:27:58 <Wolfie> a reboot didn't help. Any idaes?
May 02 20:28:15 <lardman|home> wall[e]: will look cool though :)
May 02 20:28:26 <wall[e]> :)
May 02 20:28:53 <mece> lardman|home, Macer, There is a lot of good stuff on tmo as long as you steer clear of general, n900 and off topic sections.
May 02 20:29:10 <mece> applications and development sections are very good in my opinion.
May 02 20:29:13 <Macer> lardman|home: heh. well. that one you posted looks like professional wrestling
May 02 20:29:20 <lardman|home> just too many posts nowadays, hard to sift through them all
May 02 20:29:46 <hrw> 1077 upgraded, 24 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
May 02 20:29:57 <Macer> hrw: sounds like my lucid install
May 02 20:29:59 <mece> lardman|home, well the "Active Topics" area is useless these days, unless you have got a few extra hours to kill.
May 02 20:30:13 <lardman|home> yep
May 02 20:30:19 <hrw> Macer: thats 1.1.1->prc1.2 ota
May 02 20:30:20 <SimonLR> Has anybody looked into the containers for the CMT- files packed in the images?
May 02 20:30:21 <wall[e]> slashdot vote would be nice
May 02 20:30:28 <lardman|home> "new posts" is bad news
May 02 20:30:49 <hrw> mece: that area is useless since n900 launch
May 02 20:31:20 <mece> hrw, well yeah. unless something interesting is happening it's fun to see them go apeshit :) Like today.
May 02 20:31:44 <mece> hrw, got a new build on there?
May 02 20:32:01 <Macer> hrw: ota? :)
May 02 20:32:01 <hrw> mece: ?
May 02 20:32:12 <hrw> Macer: ota, I do not like to reflash n900
May 02 20:32:15 <mece> hrw, your upgrade
May 02 20:32:29 <hrw> mece: thats that prc1.2
May 02 20:32:29 <mece> over the air
May 02 20:32:33 <mece> what's that?
May 02 20:32:42 <Macer> heh
May 02 20:32:45 <mece> that leaked one?
May 02 20:32:46 <Macer> yeah. that's what i was asking
May 02 20:32:51 <hrw> mece: yes, that one
May 02 20:32:55 <Macer> it's not ota if it's not over the air i thought
May 02 20:32:56 <mece> hrw, righty-
May 02 20:33:21 <mece> hrw, I thought you had official
May 02 20:33:23 <hrw> it is upgrade from pr1.1.1 -> prc1.2 using 'apt-get dist-upgrade'
May 02 20:33:37 <hrw> mece: do I look like @nokia?
May 02 20:33:51 <mece> hrw, you virtual people all look the same!
May 02 20:34:17 <hrw> ;D
May 02 20:35:00 <hrw> I mounted prc1.2 ubifs, extracted packages from it, made repo from them and now my n900 upgrades
May 02 20:35:24 <wall[e]> what's the repository in the pr1.2 hk?
May 02 20:35:27 <SimonLR> SOS_MM ERROR: SOS_MM_TASK: task received crap!
May 02 20:35:40 <wall[e]> what are the repositories
May 02 20:35:45 <hrw> wall[e]: basically same as in 1.1.1 as new packages are not online
May 02 20:35:52 <wall[e]> hrw, thanks.
May 02 20:36:04 <hrw> wall[e]: only ovi and extras are fremantle-1.2
May 02 20:36:04 <SimonLR> CMT has a built-in firewall?
May 02 20:36:28 <wall[e]> hrw, thanks.
May 02 20:36:40 <hrw> wall[e]: np
May 02 20:36:44 <wall[e]> i wish reposotires are in torrent
May 02 20:37:07 <wall[e]> beside ftp and http
May 02 20:37:32 <SimonLR> wall[e], if repositories were torrentable - you'd be getting malicious packages.
May 02 20:37:51 <wall[e]> SimonLR, you can have sha-256
May 02 20:38:03 <PerfDave> SimonLR: Not if you verified the checksum of the .torrent :)
May 02 20:38:05 <zokier> torrents are rather secure actually
May 02 20:38:16 <SimonLR> wall[e], Or you could use a centrally housed repository with limited access.
May 02 20:38:19 <wall[e]> unless you didn't know it's doing md5 already
May 02 20:38:37 <SimonLR> wall[e], sort of like exactly what's officially being used.
May 02 20:38:39 <wall[e]> which is breakable in some cases.
May 02 20:38:51 <wall[e]> sure.
May 02 20:39:05 <SimonLR> wall[e], so are torrents. Stream injection is stupid easy.
May 02 20:39:06 <ZogG> wait what
May 02 20:39:11 <ZogG> texrat is resigning?
May 02 20:39:32 <hrw> ZogG: where?
May 02 20:39:32 <wall[e]> you can't inject something that will be verified with central keys
May 02 20:39:49 <ZogG> i mean leaving the moderator post?
May 02 20:40:09 <SimonLR> wall[e], Uh what?
May 02 20:40:15 <wall[e]> you can break md5 key used in torrent though.
May 02 20:40:29 <wall[e]> but extra sha-256 can be extended.
May 02 20:40:46 <SimonLR> wall[e], and on which end is the key confirmed?
May 02 20:40:52 <mece> hrw, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35733&page=3
May 02 20:41:16 <wall[e]> SimonLR, you need to download key from the tracker first.
May 02 20:41:22 <wall[e]> tracker is centralized
May 02 20:41:23 <mece> hrw, well starting from here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=638793&postcount=21
May 02 20:41:43 <zokier> SimonLR, you know that packages are already signed?
May 02 20:41:57 <Macer> hm
May 02 20:42:03 <SimonLR> zokier, not forcibly.
May 02 20:42:11 <Macer> i think i'm going to have to break down and install windows 7 on another box i have here
May 02 20:42:15 <Macer> :)
May 02 20:42:28 <Macer> i need it on a desktop to use for office type stuff
May 02 20:42:53 <Macer> especially after seeing what the hell you needed to do to get a scanner to work in linux where like 90% of them aren't fully supported
May 02 20:42:54 <ZogG> hrw, talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=639123#post639123
May 02 20:43:36 <hrw> we live in free world
May 02 20:43:54 <hrw> no comments from me as I read tmo rarely
May 02 20:44:04 <hrw> too much noise, nearly no signal
May 02 20:44:16 <ZogG> agreed
May 02 20:44:33 <hrw> n900 killed tmo basically
May 02 20:44:36 <Macer> hrw: "free world" ?
May 02 20:44:38 <Macer> heh
May 02 20:44:46 <wall[e]> how do I suggest my screenshot of xournal to the author?
May 02 20:44:47 <Macer> if you say so :)
May 02 20:44:57 <mece> hrw, lol your tweet is going to fuck with the minds of noobs :D:D:D
May 02 20:44:58 <SimonLR> wall[e], email him?
May 02 20:45:01 <ZogG> email?
May 02 20:45:11 <wall[e]> he isn't here right?
May 02 20:45:13 <Macer> wall[e]: you do what everybody else does.. you take all his code and change it yourself and branch off
May 02 20:45:16 <Macer> :)
May 02 20:45:17 <hrw> mece: that was a plan
May 02 20:45:18 <MohammadAG> ~seen crashanddie
May 02 20:45:20 <infobot> crashanddie <~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 9h 15m 29s ago, saying: 'nobody can master it, except for chuck norris'.
May 02 20:45:35 <sandstorm> he
May 02 20:45:43 <SimonLR> WTF?
May 02 20:45:51 <ZogG> ~google pr1.2 leak
May 02 20:45:57 <wall[e]> Macer, :)
May 02 20:46:09 <ZogG> MohammadAG, do you ever sleep?
May 02 20:46:10 <SimonLR> The N900 CMT blobs were built with 850/1900 code in them
May 02 20:46:14 <wall[e]> http://tinyurl.com/22t7qhd
May 02 20:46:22 <wall[e]> posted yesterday!
May 02 20:46:32 <hrw> mece: who knows, maybe someone interesting to follow will reply
May 02 20:46:57 <wall[e]> i'm working for 4$ usd/h anyone want to hire me doing anything?
May 02 20:47:07 <ZogG> wall[e] is it your?
May 02 20:47:11 <SimonLR> Is there a go-to person for looking at the binary blobs for the modem? I've found some interesting things.
May 02 20:47:12 <wall[e]> ZogG, yes
May 02 20:47:13 <ZogG> yours?
May 02 20:47:14 <MohammadAG> ZogG, lol I'm off in a bit :P
May 02 20:47:30 <ZogG> wall[e], autoportrait?
May 02 20:47:50 <evilBunny> has to anyones knowledge sdio been enabled in the fremantle kernel
May 02 20:47:55 <wall[e]> ZogG, no model.
May 02 20:48:19 <ZogG> wall[e] sent me her phone
May 02 20:48:26 <mece> hrw, hahaa.. waitup.. I'll reply :P
May 02 20:48:30 <wall[e]> she doesn't exist! :P
May 02 20:48:38 <ZogG> =(
May 02 20:48:55 <ZogG> hrw your tweeter?
May 02 20:49:01 * Arkenoi heard a rumor pr1.2 is mysteriously incompatible with titan kernels
May 02 20:49:06 <ZogG> it sucks me being russian -)
May 02 20:49:28 <jacekowski> Arkenoi: some people were running it with that leakyware
May 02 20:49:32 <MohammadAG> priviet :P
May 02 20:49:39 <jacekowski> Arkenoi: without any kernel related problems
May 02 20:49:41 <ZogG> almost all my tweets in russian and i'm lazy to make another account =(
May 02 20:49:52 <Arkenoi> jacekowski, hmm, so that's not true. good.
May 02 20:50:01 <mece> hrw, was my reply what you wished for?
May 02 20:50:05 * Arkenoi will wait for official release
May 02 20:50:11 <jacekowski> Arkenoi: but that might not be true for official release
May 02 20:50:14 <ZogG> MohammadAG, and also you know how it sucks in our natzi country =)
May 02 20:50:28 <jacekowski> Arkenoi: i mean nokia doesn't really care if you break your phone
May 02 20:50:33 * ZogG is waiting too
May 02 20:50:36 <MohammadAG> ZogG, lol no idea, got a russian friend and I don't see him annoyed
May 02 20:50:48 <hrw> mece: where?
May 02 20:50:51 <jacekowski> Arkenoi: if they can just void your warranty because you were running it overclocked
May 02 20:51:05 <ZogG> MohammadAG, not that i annoyed too - just you know
May 02 20:51:06 <mece> I @replied you. from @mece66
May 02 20:51:19 <ZogG> MohammadAG, is your friend a girl ? =-))))
May 02 20:51:33 <MohammadAG> LOL no
May 02 20:51:45 <ZogG> =(((((((((
May 02 20:51:54 <mece> ZogG, you don't happen to be the fheroes2 guy?
May 02 20:52:55 <hrw> mece: ;D
May 02 20:52:59 <ZogG> not
May 02 20:53:03 <johnsu01> anyone know how to get NMEA from the n900 gps?
May 02 20:53:04 <ZogG> i'm noob guy
May 02 20:53:06 <mece> ZogG, ok.
May 02 20:53:12 <mece> ZogG :D
May 02 20:53:14 <Macer> i'm still confused.. are there n900s that work with att?
May 02 20:53:20 <Macer> well.. with att 3G?
May 02 20:53:21 <ZogG> mece, not really ok - it makes me depressive
May 02 20:53:38 <mece> ZogG, well one catches on quick.
May 02 20:54:15 <tybollt> la?
May 02 20:54:25 <SimonLR> Macer, software wise - yes. I am looking at CMT GSM Module code RIGHT NOW, that references 850MHz/1900MHz access.
May 02 20:54:38 <cato`> doesnt ATT use UTMS?
May 02 20:54:39 <SpeedEvil> joschi: As far as I'm aware, you can't.
May 02 20:54:51 <SpeedEvil> joschi: The GPS is part of the modem
May 02 20:55:02 <SpeedEvil> joschi: the modem exports any and all GPS info
May 02 20:55:12 <ZogG> anyway good night guys
May 02 20:55:16 <SpeedEvil> joschi: but I don't think there is a nice nmEA output anywhere
May 02 20:55:16 <Macer> SimonLR: heh. well. i have had t-mobile for quite a while anyways so i don't care much about it.. but i was curious
May 02 20:55:23 <hrw> byeall
May 02 20:55:27 <SimonLR> cato`, AT&T uses UMTS on 850/190MHz bands
May 02 20:55:27 <Macer> then again. i probably wouldn't suggest an n900 to joe user :)
May 02 20:55:28 <mece> hrw, toodles
May 02 20:55:36 <Macer> just because of the landscape only mode
May 02 20:55:59 <Macer> i just had a friend who has att and was wondering though
May 02 20:56:10 <mece> Macer, I know lots of laymen who use the N900 with no probs.
May 02 20:56:57 <mece> Macer, my mom tried mine, and instantly wanted one.
May 02 20:56:58 <evilBunny> SpeedEvil: can't he just use gpsd ? ;)
May 02 20:57:30 <johnsu01> there is minigpsd, but it doesn't install due to some missing dependencies (which I haven't tried to chase down)
May 02 20:57:41 <mece> ~seen noobmonk3y
May 02 20:57:43 <infobot> noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@host86-178-50-44.range86-178.btcentralplus.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5h 14m 1s ago, saying: 'but that shouldnt make a difference'.
May 02 20:58:39 <johnsu01> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8905 is instructive I guess
May 02 20:58:40 <povbot> Bug 8905: No NMEA output from GPS
May 02 21:02:54 <Otacon22> When the pr1.2 will be released?
May 02 21:03:01 <evilBunny> haha
May 02 21:03:13 <evilBunny> someday
May 02 21:04:37 <kthomas_vh> if I want to compile source on maemo,  what packages do I need?
May 02 21:04:46 * kthomas_vh continues RTFMing
May 02 21:05:04 * evilBunny scratches his box
May 02 21:05:30 <SpeedEvil> kthomas_vh: there are no packages that let you do that installable on the n900 as I understnad ti. (not from he default repos anyway)
May 02 21:05:54 <Mace_N900> ugh
May 02 21:05:58 <Mace_N900> have to install windows
May 02 21:06:06 <evilBunny> ?
May 02 21:06:39 <Mace_N900> i love using my bt keyboard on my n900
May 02 21:06:45 <Mace_N900> except that it has to stay open
May 02 21:06:54 <evilBunny> ? what the slide ?
May 02 21:07:03 <Mace_N900> yes
May 02 21:07:08 <kthomas_vh> SpeedEvil, there must be a C compiler out there somewhere :) ?
May 02 21:07:25 <evilBunny> hmmz thats fixable
May 02 21:07:43 * kthomas_vh tries cmake
May 02 21:07:45 <SpeedEvil> kthomas_vh: As far as I'm aware, there isn't. At least for maemo 5. There seems to be one in the debian chroot image - install the debian chroot - but I can't work aptitude
May 02 21:07:47 <Mace_N900> evilBunny: it has to stay open for me to use my su8w correctly
May 02 21:07:59 <lcuk> kthomas_vh, build-essential is in the maemo sdk/tools repo
May 02 21:08:08 <MohammadAG> There's one in the easy-debian chroot? cool!
May 02 21:08:10 <Mace_N900> really the only part that is messed up is the part where i can´t use enter when it is closed
May 02 21:08:12 <MohammadAG> thanks SpeedEvil
May 02 21:08:15 <Mace_N900> other than that it seems ok
May 02 21:08:19 <evilBunny> waiting on a bt kb here atm, but more bsy with trying to figure out if the sdhost has full spi support
May 02 21:08:24 <Mace_N900> enter seems to want to pull up the vkb when it´s closed
May 02 21:08:25 <wall[e]> is n900 lcd capable of 3d display?
May 02 21:08:47 <evilBunny> hmmz en if you disable vkb ?
May 02 21:08:50 <wall[e]> using polarized eye glasses like samsung tv
May 02 21:08:56 <Mace_N900> evilBunny: yes
May 02 21:09:00 <Mace_N900> it just won´t work then
May 02 21:09:18 <Mace_N900> when i deactivate the vkb it just won´t work withe the return/enter key
May 02 21:09:30 <Mace_N900> it is probably just a matter of mapping but i´m too lazy to figure it out now
May 02 21:09:34 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: Or rather - there appears to be - in the repos it accesses.
May 02 21:09:42 <Mace_N900> it´s nice to be able to use my bt keyboard with it tho
May 02 21:09:47 <evilBunny> Mace_N900 hmmz that is odd indeed , think its the mapping yeah
May 02 21:10:01 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: i can't work out how I get aptitude to install build-essentials and everything. It seems to want to change libc - which - ...
May 02 21:10:10 <Mace_N900> evilBunny: i sure figured something like this would work out the box considering it worked with the n810 just fine
May 02 21:10:12 <evilBunny> yeah one reason i ebayed a mac kb ;)
May 02 21:10:16 <Mace_N900> and the fact that this is a nokia bt keyboard heh
May 02 21:11:24 <kthomas_vh> lcuk, thanks
May 02 21:11:35 <Mace_N900> it just seriously sucks that this mapping is off. not only that i have to manually run xkb to get it to work correctly
May 02 21:11:51 <Mace_N900> other than that though it works like a champ as you can see. i´m using it right now with xchat
May 02 21:14:03 <SpeedEvil> http://pics.nase-bohren.de/apple_restriction_zone.jpg
May 02 21:15:08 <b-man> SpeedEvil: haha awesome :D
May 02 21:15:15 <BCMM> wall[e]: of course not, but it should work fine with red/blue glasses :)
May 02 21:15:39 <mece> hey why is the "youre screwed if you installed prc1.2 thread closed?
May 02 21:15:43 <Jaffa> GAN900: Moving the GSoC projects down to the bottom to put them at the bottom of the section
May 02 21:16:25 <wall[e]> BCMM, :)
May 02 21:16:36 <trumee> maps.google.com and gmail.com in standard mode are slow on N900
May 02 21:17:04 <BCMM> maps.google.com has become awful on most browsers
May 02 21:17:10 <trumee> ajax kills the browser
May 02 21:17:13 <BCMM> doesn't even work right in konqueror now
May 02 21:17:24 <wall[e]> new pr1.2 should have it faster?
May 02 21:17:35 <BCMM> i am beginning to wonder if it's slowly going to get unusable on anything that isn't chrome
May 02 21:17:43 <SpeedEvil> mece: insufficient apostrophies.
May 02 21:17:45 <wall[e]> is tracemonkey thing on in microb?
May 02 21:17:55 <trumee> BCMM: i have given up konqueror, mostly use FF in kde
May 02 21:17:57 <mece> SpeedEvil, :P
May 02 21:18:05 <SimonLR> Does the N900 use Nokia / Aplicom 12 GSM module?
May 02 21:18:22 <BCMM> trumee: i use konqueror because of KDE integration
May 02 21:18:27 <SpeedEvil> It is referred to as Rupyama or something similar in the schematic
May 02 21:18:28 <wall[e]> anyway, I use gmail in igoogle
May 02 21:18:34 <wall[e]> i think it's faster there
May 02 21:18:39 <BCMM> being able to do things like drag links to a directory to save files just feels like it should work
May 02 21:18:44 <furunk3l> so, i heard pr 1.2 is leaked?
May 02 21:18:52 <MohammadAG> you heard wrong
May 02 21:18:59 <MohammadAG> actually
May 02 21:19:01 <MohammadAG> ~pr1.2
May 02 21:19:02 <infobot> from memory, pr1.2 is not here yet. Stop asking. Read the topic Just stop asking. Read the topic. AND STOP ASKING.  If you ask then release moves by another week, so do not ask.
May 02 21:19:12 * GAN900 notes Sygic still hasn't done anything about their abuse of the maemo.org trademark.
May 02 21:19:13 <wall[e]> LOL
May 02 21:19:22 <BCMM> furunk3l: AFAIK the leak is not the version that will be released
May 02 21:19:22 <furunk3l> oh lord. i wont ask.
May 02 21:19:27 <BCMM> and is very much work in progress
May 02 21:19:30 <GAN900> 3 months after I contacted them about it and they said they were working on it. . . .
May 02 21:19:33 <BCMM> and will eat your cat
May 02 21:19:41 <furunk3l> i have 2
May 02 21:19:45 <trumee> BCMM: any way to sync with kontact?
May 02 21:19:47 <BCMM> GAN900: what abuse was this?
May 02 21:19:55 <BCMM> trumee: gaaaah
May 02 21:20:06 <BCMM> trumee: after much reasearch, i'm not sure
May 02 21:20:24 <trumee> BCMM: opensync doesn't work any more with N900
May 02 21:20:30 <BCMM> trumee: interested in contacts or calendars?
May 02 21:20:40 <trumee> BCMM: contacts only
May 02 21:20:45 <BCMM> GAN900: what abuse was this?
May 02 21:21:02 <BCMM> trumee: dunno about sync, but import/export is easy enough
May 02 21:21:08 <BCMM> likewise for calendars
May 02 21:21:17 <trumee> BCMM: i have it working with N95 but not with N900
May 02 21:21:40 <BCMM> i wasn't really looking for contacts answers, so if i did find any way to handle contacts that didn't to calendar too, i ignored it
May 02 21:21:53 <Stskeeps> GAN900: isn't maemo.org just a subname of maemo trademark?
May 02 21:22:06 <trumee> BCMM: want a sync, import/export doesnt cut it
May 02 21:22:23 <trumee> BCMM: did u try opensync?
May 02 21:22:24 <BCMM> trumee: how does sync work anyway?
May 02 21:22:36 <GAN900> BCMM, chopping the .org off the maemo.org trademark
May 02 21:22:53 <GAN900> Stskeeps, it has its own trademark that cannot be applied to maemo.org
May 02 21:22:55 <mece> furunk3l, an old and buggy release candidate (that obviously did not get released) was leaked. it's from week 12. current RC is week 16.
May 02 21:22:58 <BCMM> i mean, how does it know, for example, whether you added a contact on the phone or deleted one on the PC?
May 02 21:23:07 <trumee> BCMM: sync works very well with N95. two way sync. perfect
May 02 21:23:24 <GAN900> Besides, chopping pieces off of other people's trademarks is generally not considered acceptable.
May 02 21:23:28 <trumee> BCMM: opensync has some rules
May 02 21:23:29 <BCMM> trumee: no, i mean i'm a little fuzzy on what sync is and how it works
May 02 21:23:31 <GAN900> Jaffa, ping?
May 02 21:23:31 <furunk3l> thx mece. i was just curiious.
May 02 21:23:44 <SpeedEvil> GAN900: Who owns the copyright to the maemo.org image?
May 02 21:23:49 <SpeedEvil> DCMA takedown?
May 02 21:23:50 <trumee> BCMM: multisync gui for opensync has some settings
May 02 21:24:03 <GAN900> SpeedEvil, I don't have any idea at this point
May 02 21:24:03 <BCMM> it would be really, really useful if i could sync the calendar, but i don't think it will be possible
May 02 21:24:13 <mece> furunk3l, and to add to the hilarity: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=638698&postcount=1
May 02 21:24:17 <GAN900> SpeedEvil, I think Nokia does when it's all said and done.
May 02 21:24:28 <trumee> BCMM: nokia thinks it is opensyncs fault if it doesnt work for N900
May 02 21:24:46 <BCMM> trumee: hmm, i thought opensync did work with n900?
May 02 21:24:48 <trumee> BCMM: opensync can sync calendars as well
May 02 21:24:52 <BCMM> trumee: so what does sync with it?
May 02 21:25:00 <trumee> BCMM: nope it doesnt
May 02 21:25:16 <trumee> BCMM: only funambol
May 02 21:25:39 <trumee> BCMM: something is wrong with the syncml inside N900
May 02 21:25:54 <BCMM> trumee: googling it produces words like "cloud" - does that involve a third-party server somewhere?
May 02 21:26:00 <trumee> BCMM: funambol is a crappy solution
May 02 21:26:14 <trumee> BCMM: yup. that is why it sucks
May 02 21:26:31 <BCMM> so the n900 is supposed to do opensync, but doesn't?
May 02 21:26:36 <trumee> BCMM: yup
May 02 21:26:37 <MohammadAG> night
May 02 21:26:46 <BCMM> i am confused about terms here
May 02 21:27:11 <BCMM> syncml is a standard for syncing, and opensync is an open-source impementation of that standard?
May 02 21:27:12 <trumee> BCMM: i logged a bug for it but it was called invalid
May 02 21:27:24 <BCMM> and the n900 is a broken implementation?
May 02 21:27:36 <BCMM> trumee: what is an "invalid" bug?
May 02 21:27:47 <BCMM> trumee: also, did i get the above right?
May 02 21:27:51 <jatt> hi, when I choose "Good quality" in zoutube, the video is not shown, is this a known problem?
May 02 21:27:56 <jatt> only "Bad quality" works
May 02 21:28:04 <trumee> BCMM: there is syncml server and syncml client
May 02 21:28:31 <trumee> BCMM: syncml client is for funambol, server is for opensync
May 02 21:28:40 <BCMM> trumee: not sure i follow you
May 02 21:28:50 <BCMM> trumee: oh, you mean on the n900?
May 02 21:29:01 <trumee> BCMM: opensync works with syncml over bluetooth
May 02 21:29:09 <trumee> BCMM: yes
May 02 21:29:48 <trumee> BCMM: syncml server implementation in N900 has a problem
May 02 21:30:22 <trumee> BCMM: so opensync is not able to talk to it
May 02 21:31:07 <BCMM> trumee: am i correct that syncml is a protocol and opensync is a client (or server) that implements that protocol?
May 02 21:31:09 <trumee> BCMM: 'invalid bug' my bug report was given invalid status in bugzilla
May 02 21:31:24 <BCMM> trumee: what was bug number?
May 02 21:32:02 <BCMM> trumee: also, does KDE-PIM have opensync integration? or do you just tell opensync where KDE keeps the vcards?
May 02 21:32:36 <PerfDave> Is there a SIP video client like Ekiga for the N900?
May 02 21:32:41 <trumee> BCMM: opensync writes out vcf file which kaddressbook reads
May 02 21:32:48 <Netrum> is there an xterminal text editor installed on the n900 by default ?
May 02 21:32:55 <pupnik_> vi
May 02 21:32:59 <trumee> BCMM: it is seamless
May 02 21:33:02 <Netrum> Thank you :)
May 02 21:33:56 <AakashPatel> Yoyo
May 02 21:34:10 <AakashPatel> So I was thinkin about buying a N series phone again
May 02 21:34:16 <AakashPatel> Should I just wait for the N910?
May 02 21:34:38 <AakashPatel> Or is there anything leaked yet about it
May 02 21:35:07 <trumee> BCMM: later. got to go.
May 02 21:35:53 <Netrum> AakashPatel, go for the  n900 m8 :)
May 02 21:36:05 <AakashPatel> I already had one but sold it lol
May 02 21:36:26 <AakashPatel> lol nokian910.com
May 02 21:36:31 <AakashPatel> hah
May 02 21:36:35 * AakashPatel will wait a week more
May 02 21:36:41 <AakashPatel> lets see if thats legit or not
May 02 21:36:46 <Netrum> you should wait for the N8 then :) its symbian 3. but with full qt 4.6.2 support :)
May 02 21:37:06 <Dima202> what tha may 8th?
May 02 21:37:26 <jaska> .. symbian
May 02 21:37:38 <lirakis> nice.. i see nexus one advert on nokian910.com
May 02 21:37:38 <AakashPatel> oh hell naw
May 02 21:37:46 <AakashPatel> im not using symbian
May 02 21:37:46 <AakashPatel> :v
May 02 21:37:58 <Dima202> I don't even care, I'm not upgrading for at least 2 years.. I am already attached to my N900
May 02 21:38:01 <tybollt> huh
May 02 21:38:01 <AakashPatel> lirakis: I see one on ever phone maker site lol
May 02 21:38:02 <tybollt> n910?
May 02 21:38:03 <tybollt> wtf?
May 02 21:38:07 <AakashPatel> phone related site8
May 02 21:38:13 <doc|home> I can't even get an n900 :(
May 02 21:38:25 <tybollt> doc|home: you donät WANT an n910
May 02 21:38:28 <tybollt> n900, even
May 02 21:38:31 <doc|home> tybollt: why?
May 02 21:38:46 * AakashPatel does
May 02 21:38:59 <lirakis> the only thing i wish the n900 had, is more ram
May 02 21:39:09 <AakashPatel> how much does it hav
May 02 21:39:09 <AakashPatel> e
May 02 21:39:11 <AakashPatel> i forgot
May 02 21:39:18 <vanadismobile> and more cpu-power
May 02 21:39:18 <AakashPatel> 256 o.O
May 02 21:39:19 <AakashPatel> oh my
May 02 21:39:20 <lirakis> top shows ~256mg
May 02 21:39:20 <doc|home> you know what I have now? This piece of junk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_SLVR_L2
May 02 21:39:22 <lirakis> *mb
May 02 21:39:25 <Netrum> if they release a sequel to the awesome n900 i wont buy it. :) Because really the n900 is near perfect :) (my opinion may not be on terms with that others think)
May 02 21:39:28 <AakashPatel> it runs pretty good
May 02 21:39:54 <lirakis> vanadismobile, (shrug) yeah if it had a snapdragon 1ghz thatd be nice... but it can overclock.. and it runs pretty well as is.
May 02 21:39:58 <AakashPatel> Does Maemo 5 have a good mulitprotocal chat client yet?
May 02 21:40:01 <lirakis> i think more ram would make it snappier overall
May 02 21:40:23 <vanadismobile> lirakis, jep, running at 800mhz is better
May 02 21:41:10 <lirakis> Netrum, the n900 is the last gamble i make with nokia
May 02 21:41:22 <vanadismobile> AakashPatel, which protocols do you want?
May 02 21:41:23 <Netrum> lirakis, how is that m8?
May 02 21:41:27 <DocScrutinizer> as always and each time: if you consider getting the N900 and you like what you see, then get it. Do *not* expect it to become more than it's now, and don't waste the time you could be having fun by waiting for N910xx whatever
May 02 21:41:29 <AakashPatel> Facebook mainly
May 02 21:41:33 <AakashPatel> oh wait
May 02 21:41:37 <AakashPatel> they made it support jabber now
May 02 21:41:43 <AakashPatel> does the chat client in maemo support jabber?
May 02 21:41:48 <lirakis> Netrum, i dont have an m8
May 02 21:42:26 <Netrum> lirakis, so your basicly just watching nokia atm. too see if they screw up again?
May 02 21:44:44 <frals> AakashPatel: eh, maemo5 had a "good" multiprotocol chat client from start
May 02 21:44:47 <DocScrutinizer> nah lirakis is the cute guy who plans to report bugs to bugtrac about flaws in a leaked deprecated inofficial OS version
May 02 21:44:57 <Netrum> aha :)
May 02 21:45:02 <AakashPatel> which didnt support fb chat back in jan
May 02 21:45:07 <AakashPatel> now it does since fb added jabber
May 02 21:45:18 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure some of my bugs weren't less important.
May 02 21:45:37 <frals> pretty sure there was a fb plugin for it back then but i wont swear on it
May 02 21:45:44 <AakashPatel> there wasnt
May 02 21:45:53 <AakashPatel> ther was a plugin for contacts or something
May 02 21:45:55 <AakashPatel> i forgot
May 02 21:45:57 <AakashPatel> little while back
May 02 21:45:58 <AakashPatel> XD
May 02 21:46:04 <SpeedEvil> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9827
May 02 21:46:05 <povbot> Bug 9827: Blocks should have highscore
May 02 21:46:18 <mece> Pretty pointless with fb plugin since they use xmpp..
May 02 21:46:59 <mece> search tmo for facebook and jabber and you'll find instructions.
May 02 21:47:17 <AakashPatel> rofl SpeedEvil
May 02 21:47:30 <AakashPatel> mece: well yeah they only added that like 2 months ago
May 02 21:48:11 <mece> Speedevil, Voted.
May 02 21:48:27 <mece> AakashPatel, and a good move it was. If I was on facebook I'd be thrilled :D
May 02 21:48:35 <mece> anyway, I'm off to watch some tv. Toodles.
May 02 21:48:36 <AakashPatel> Truth
May 02 22:23:02 <DocScrutinizer> ~botsnack
May 02 22:23:02 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: thanks
May 02 22:23:27 <frals> awesome: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=639307&postcount=1
May 02 22:23:39 <frals> "you hate the leak because its chinese"
May 02 22:24:21 <DocScrutinizer> lol
May 02 22:26:07 <DocScrutinizer> incredible
May 02 22:26:42 <GAN900> Anybody want to translate the last line?
May 02 22:26:53 <GAN900> Clearly there are some cultural insecurities there.
May 02 22:26:59 <DocScrutinizer> not really, it might get worse
May 02 22:27:38 <b-man> rofl
May 02 22:28:09 * DocScrutinizer assigns 'STFU asshole!' to a macro
May 02 22:29:05 <b-man> hmmm, google translate cant translate that last line xDDD
May 02 22:29:38 <tybollt> frals: what's this n910 thing? Dom skämtar oss aprillo eller?
May 02 22:29:45 <DocScrutinizer> doesn't google translate need a hint about which lang it is?
May 02 22:29:45 <AakashPatel> duh lol
May 02 22:29:48 <AakashPatel> cuz its in latin letters
May 02 22:29:54 <b-man> unless he's pronouncing the language
May 02 22:29:58 <AakashPatel> he is
May 02 22:29:59 <frals> tybollt: mm
May 02 22:30:25 <AakashPatel> It would have to be in native 'letters?' for google tran to work
May 02 22:30:26 <b-man> hey AkashPatel :)
May 02 22:30:30 <AakashPatel> yo dawg
May 02 22:30:49 <b-man> what's up :)
May 02 22:30:59 <AakashPatel> waiting for a movie to download lol
May 02 22:30:59 <AakashPatel> \
May 02 22:31:03 <AakashPatel> you?
May 02 22:31:24 <b-man> playing with ubuntu on my n900 again
May 02 22:31:43 <b-man> failing miserably :(
May 02 22:32:41 <b-man> but my plan B is to use the mer imager ;P
May 02 22:34:04 <FIQ> hmm
May 02 22:34:34 <FIQ> why am I unable to change keyb layout?
May 02 22:35:08 <FIQ> i recently played with the rx-51, will editing it incorrectly result in that?
May 02 22:35:19 <FIQ> if it's that, then i go reset it
May 02 22:36:24 <FIQ> hmm
May 02 22:36:31 <FIQ> nvm, i spotted the error
May 02 22:39:18 <FIQ> btw
May 02 22:41:23 <FIQ> about PR1.2
May 02 22:41:36 <FIQ> hold down keys makes it possible to use symbols
May 02 22:41:45 <FIQ> will that be possible to turn off?
May 02 22:42:06 <FIQ> because i prefer holding them down = spawn more chars
May 02 22:42:23 <frals> yes
May 02 22:42:41 <FIQ> ah, nice
May 02 22:42:54 <frals> theres a gconfkey for it at least
May 02 22:44:08 <DocScrutinizer> ~nuke gconf
May 02 22:44:09 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at gconf ... B☢☢M!
May 02 22:44:49 <frals> FIQ: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5421#c26
May 02 22:44:50 <povbot> Bug 5421: keys when long pressed should give the blue symbol/number
May 02 22:45:09 <DocScrutinizer> a really idiotic one
May 02 22:45:32 <SpeedEvil> As a configurable - I'm not against it
May 02 22:53:33 <GAN900> Damned BP
May 02 22:54:06 <DocScrutinizer> BP?
May 02 22:54:15 <DocScrutinizer> british petrol?
May 02 22:54:40 <lardman|home> night chaps
May 02 22:56:57 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, aye, big oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.
May 02 22:57:07 <GAN900> No seafood for me this Summer.
May 02 22:58:22 <lcukn900> gan, will it kill all the aliens
May 02 23:10:54 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: :-(
May 02 23:12:19 * DocScrutinizer opens a can of cheap tuna
May 02 23:14:32 <njsf> DocScrutinizer: happy Hg intake!
May 02 23:16:25 <lcukn900> fiddlesticks
May 02 23:16:34 <SpeedEvil> Tuna has historically had higher than expected Hg levels.
May 02 23:16:40 <SpeedEvil> It's not a recent phonemoneon
May 02 23:16:45 <SpeedEvil> phenomeneo
May 02 23:16:46 <SpeedEvil> meh
May 02 23:16:49 <SpeedEvil> that word
May 02 23:17:17 <DocScrutinizer> meh
May 02 23:17:18 <SpeedEvil> Analysis of samples from museum fish have the same high Hg
May 02 23:19:18 <njsf> SpeedEvil: I know, its because they are at the top of the food chain
May 02 23:19:57 <njsf> That does not take from the fact tuna has the the highest Hg of the commonly commercialized fishes
May 02 23:23:30 <DocScrutinizer> burp
May 02 23:24:03 * DocScrutinizer feels mecurized
May 02 23:24:28 <njsf> DocScrutinizer: now you can tell your temperature :-D ?
May 02 23:24:40 <DocScrutinizer> lol
May 02 23:24:44 <njsf> (yeah I know, juvenile joke)
May 02 23:26:12 <jacekowski> it's spellec mercurized
May 02 23:26:16 <jacekowski> spelled*
May 02 23:27:11 <DocScrutinizer> heh, I missed a char, you swapped one :-P
May 02 23:30:16 <javispedro> Guys can someone help me SPEED UP my N900 with PR1.2??? I'm a total newbie. Just send me some links!!
May 02 23:30:31 <DocScrutinizer> probably it's really silly to have all the amalgam removed in your teeth and then eat tuna a can a time. But hey I love fish and all seafood
May 02 23:30:33 * njsf is wanting to test the kicking as per the topic :D
May 02 23:30:59 <DocScrutinizer> errr.....
May 02 23:31:01 * javispedro has diplomatic immunity ... or so he thinks.
May 02 23:31:16 * FIQ wants to try it too
May 02 23:31:19 * DocScrutinizer stares buffled
May 02 23:31:26 <FIQ> but the topic fails
May 02 23:31:40 <njsf> So... I guess I am free to ask ?
May 02 23:31:43 <FIQ> as PR1.2 is released in HK
May 02 23:31:45 <njsf> :)
May 02 23:31:49 <DocScrutinizer> baffled?
May 02 23:32:19 <DocScrutinizer> (friggin mercury)
May 02 23:32:29 <javispedro> what did you eat, a thermometer?
May 02 23:32:38 <DocScrutinizer> tuna
May 02 23:33:01 <DocScrutinizer> I'm told it has enough Hg for ten thermometers
May 02 23:33:16 <javispedro> next time put it on a microwave for a quick test
May 02 23:33:18 <njsf> I prefer the infrared meters personally
May 02 23:33:47 <lcukn900> is anyone in hk?  has anyone tried the HWR app and how does it compare to hwr on other platforms?
May 02 23:33:53 <njsf> then again, by heritage I love cod, which is the only other fish that might be worse than tuna wrt Hg
May 02 23:35:04 <DocScrutinizer> hmmm, no idea what's codfish
May 02 23:36:14 <njsf> DocScrutinizer: Are you from PA ?
May 02 23:36:30 <DocScrutinizer> PA?
May 02 23:36:55 <njsf> You are connected to a Pennsylvania node, that is why I ask
May 02 23:37:12 <chem|st> FIQ: no it will be released in 3days
May 02 23:37:12 <lcukn900> ooooops i think i broke brainstorm
May 02 23:37:17 <DocScrutinizer> btw google has some pics of codfish, still it's kinda unknown to me
May 02 23:37:21 <FIQ> ahh
May 02 23:37:24 <FIQ> nvm then
May 02 23:37:29 <frals> lcukn900: you killed kenny! bastard!
May 02 23:37:30 <frals> ;)
May 02 23:37:51 <FIQ> the only thing I associates PA with is "PA: Ding dong! Your time's up. Go back to the entrance"
May 02 23:37:54 <DocScrutinizer> njsf: nah, freenode server arbitration works highly at random
May 02 23:38:05 <lcukn900> frals rly
May 02 23:38:12 <lcukn900> i clicked the upvote
May 02 23:38:18 <lcukn900> it asked me to login
May 02 23:38:24 <njsf> DocScrutinizer: Not surprised, at this point cod is so expensive only cultures with heavy emotional association consume it
May 02 23:38:34 <frals> lcukn900: oh no, dont tell me you logged in after that!
May 02 23:38:36 <lcukn900> now whenever i refresh the page it upvotes again
May 02 23:39:00 <FIQ> nice bug
May 02 23:39:08 <Macer> ugh
May 02 23:39:12 <Macer> this sucks on so many levels
May 02 23:39:22 <Macer> need to pull out a wifi card to see what kind it is :) damn you win7!
May 02 23:39:22 <lcukn900> its the moderator forum one
May 02 23:39:37 <lcukn900> can you just have a peek and see if im showing lots
May 02 23:39:51 <njsf> DocScrutinizer: Look for a Portuguese restaurant if you want to try some. Recommend "braz" or "gomes sa" as for cod fish dishes
May 02 23:39:56 <lcukn900> it has activity list under the brainstorm
May 02 23:40:46 <Macer> ugh
May 02 23:40:59 <DocScrutinizer> njsf: thanks
May 02 23:41:02 <frals> lol lcukn900
May 02 23:41:04 <javispedro> lcuk: yes
May 02 23:41:05 <frals> your showing lots :D
May 02 23:41:14 <lcukn900> yes?
May 02 23:41:17 <frals> s/your/youre
May 02 23:41:21 <lcukn900> oooh crap
May 02 23:41:30 <frals> last 5 are all you
May 02 23:41:35 <javispedro> it's showing you upvoting numerous times
May 02 23:41:36 <lcukn900> i havent got typing ability to fill out a big bug
May 02 23:41:37 <javispedro> but vote count is 4
May 02 23:41:46 <javispedro> so no big problem
May 02 23:41:59 <lcukn900> thats still crap
May 02 23:42:04 <lcukn900> technically
May 02 23:42:08 <lcukn900> cos i havent
May 02 23:42:12 <javispedro> yes but at least you're not tricking the system =)
May 02 23:42:15 <lcukn900> i just refreshed
May 02 23:42:19 <johnsu01> is the gps between n810 and n900 different?
May 02 23:42:35 <javispedro> 4 votes
May 02 23:42:38 <DocScrutinizer> you bet it is
May 02 23:42:45 <javispedro> johnsu01: a lot
May 02 23:42:57 <lcukn900> yes john.  900 seems more rapid/stable to start
May 02 23:43:26 <johnsu01> asking because I got minigpsd to install (fixed the dependency changes) but I have no idea if it's possible to get it to actually work on the n900
May 02 23:43:43 <johnsu01> right now I can telnet to it and get time info but no position
May 02 23:43:56 <javispedro> probably not as the n900 doesn't have the same device nodes? where did minigpsd get its info from?
May 02 23:44:08 <johnsu01> javispedro: trying to figure that out from the source now
May 02 23:44:53 <johnsu01> it might be looking for a /var/lib/gps/gps_driver_ctrl
May 02 23:45:01 <javispedro> johnsu01: either way on the n900 you're supposed to use liblocation -- and you get nice features like cell tower positioning when the gps is offline/without a lock
May 02 23:45:02 * DocScrutinizer seems to remember a bug ticket "N900 GPS doesn't report NMEA"
May 02 23:45:24 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: ack
May 02 23:45:39 <johnsu01> DocScrutinizer: yeah, NMEA is what I'm after
May 02 23:46:11 <DocScrutinizer> johnsu01: not sure if N900 supports it
May 02 23:46:17 <johnsu01> javispedro: apparently there's no liblocation => nmea yet, and liblocation maybe doesn't provide enough info for complete NMEA
May 02 23:46:45 <javispedro> oh i'm pretty sure you can simulate the missing data
May 02 23:47:08 <javispedro> prove is that I have here a NMEA simulator (GNU/Linux) that accepts utm coords as input
May 02 23:47:11 <javispedro> *proof.
May 02 23:47:16 <johnsu01> DocScrutinizer: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8905 is the bug report
May 02 23:47:16 <povbot> Bug 8905: No NMEA output from GPS
May 02 23:47:31 <DocScrutinizer> wonder if we ever get the datasheets for GSM/GPS chipset API
May 02 23:47:33 <FIQ> is KDE usable on N900
May 02 23:47:34 <FIQ> ?
May 02 23:47:39 <FIQ> -enter
May 02 23:47:59 <DocScrutinizer> what docs are the phonet guys using?
May 02 23:48:28 <DocScrutinizer> FIQ: lol
May 02 23:48:37 <FIQ> i'm not going for plasma lol, but there's nice KDE applications out there like Kate, Konversation, etc
May 02 23:49:16 <DocScrutinizer> well, KDE is Qt based aiui
May 02 23:49:34 <DocScrutinizer> so maybe it's not that hard to port KDE apps to hildon
May 02 23:49:44 <javispedro> hildon is gtk based =)
May 02 23:49:49 <johnsu01> well i guess I better give up on this idea for now
May 02 23:49:54 <DocScrutinizer> gnah
May 02 23:50:00 <johnsu01> I was trying to get the n900 working as an external gps for my laptop
May 02 23:50:05 <javispedro> johnsu01: it shouldn't be horribly hard to make a liblocation -> nmea proxy
May 02 23:50:21 <lcukn900> bugzilla, why of why wont you let me create a new bug based on a similar one i found - i have to pick select all options
May 02 23:50:32 <DocScrutinizer> is liblocation open? guess no
May 02 23:50:57 <johnsu01> there is a gypsy-daemon package
May 02 23:50:58 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: no, but why you need liblocation source to make a client for it :)
May 02 23:51:18 <johnsu01> but it doesn't seem to do anything
May 02 23:51:54 <FIQ> Hmm
May 02 23:51:56 <DocScrutinizer> just wondering if maybe liblocation is a NMEA->liblocAPI in itself, I.E. maybe the modem talks NMEA
May 02 23:51:57 <javispedro> either way I kinda remember a talk conversation or wiki page about this.. but can't find it now.
May 02 23:52:43 <FIQ> The fact that N810 seems to have full KDE working shows that just porting some applications wouldn't be that hard
May 02 23:53:22 <johnsu01> yeah, minigpsd seems to just be looking for that gps ctrl file from the
May 02 23:53:24 <johnsu01> n810
May 02 23:54:27 <DocScrutinizer> johnsu01: maybe check gpsjinni
May 02 23:54:39 <johnsu01> DocScrutinizer: yeah, was investigating that along the way
May 02 23:56:11 <DocScrutinizer> johnsu01: mmpf, actually gpsjinni wasn't the one I thought of
May 02 23:56:13 <johnsu01> it just uses the liblocation api
May 02 23:57:06 * ShadowJK thought gpsd outputs nmea
May 02 23:57:24 <johnsu01> ShadowJK: it does, but there is no gpsd on n900
May 02 23:59:09 <DocScrutinizer> johnsu01: location test gui
May 02 23:59:22 <javispedro> location test gui, obviously, uses liblocation :)
May 02 23:59:28 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 02 23:59:33 <DocScrutinizer> of course
May 03 00:00:05 <DocScrutinizer> but it seems to show at least all the info you can get from libloc
May 03 00:00:06 <javispedro> I'm trying to understand where does location-daemon get it data from, but all I get is unbinded unix sockets :(
May 03 00:00:25 <DocScrutinizer> is liblocation open? guess no
May 03 00:00:34 <javispedro> no
May 03 00:00:42 <javispedro> contains "patented" technology
May 03 00:00:45 <javispedro> or sth
May 03 00:00:57 <javispedro> (tbh google's "liblocation" isn't open either)
May 03 00:01:17 <DocScrutinizer> so it accesses GSM chipset shared mem interface, like phonet - my guess
May 03 00:02:55 <javispedro> probably.
May 03 00:03:48 <javispedro> aha
May 03 00:03:59 <javispedro> one of the unbinded sockets is PF_NETLINK, SOCK_RAW
May 03 00:04:03 <javispedro> bad stuff.
May 03 00:04:13 <DocScrutinizer> uhuh
May 03 00:04:24 <satmd> my n900 decides to share only the onboard emmc, but not the memory card via usb? does anyone have a suggestion for me?
May 03 00:04:26 <DocScrutinizer> .oO(???)
May 03 00:04:52 <javispedro> (I guess over the phonet interface
May 03 00:04:54 <javispedro> )
May 03 00:06:26 <javispedro> my strace is too old to understand this =)
May 03 00:06:41 <javispedro> (me too btw... )
May 03 00:07:23 <lcukn900> satmd it should afaik?
May 03 00:07:40 <lcukn900> reboot and see and check it works normally after testing
May 03 00:08:19 <satmd> alright, rebooting...
May 03 00:08:35 <satmd> I already made sure no software is keeping the partition busy
May 03 00:08:41 <satmd> using lsof
May 03 00:08:58 <lcukn900> is it a new card?
May 03 00:09:04 <satmd> no
May 03 00:09:14 <satmd> it's been working some time ago
May 03 00:09:23 <lcukn900> so you are used to seeing it appear on usb?
May 03 00:09:28 <satmd> yeah
May 03 00:09:35 <lcukn900> how odd then
May 03 00:09:38 <satmd> but I had a few reflashings in between
May 03 00:10:08 <lcukn900> mm?
May 03 00:10:29 <satmd> reflashing of emmc and rootfs
May 03 00:10:42 <satmd> reboot done, it mounted the internal device again
May 03 00:10:56 <lcukn900> does it work internally?
May 03 00:11:07 <satmd> internally?
May 03 00:11:19 <lcukn900> which versions have you been flashing?
May 03 00:11:26 <satmd> latest
May 03 00:11:28 <lcukn900> yeah on device itself
May 03 00:11:30 <satmd> just last week
May 03 00:11:37 <jacekowski> latest 1.2?
May 03 00:11:43 <satmd> 1.2 is out?
May 03 00:11:51 <jacekowski> sort of
May 03 00:12:03 <njsf_> satmd: not according to topic on the channel ;)
May 03 00:12:04 <jacekowski> leaked version that some people have some problems with
May 03 00:12:10 <satmd> I chose the latest official images off the nokia site
May 03 00:12:18 <jacekowski> so it's not official release yet
May 03 00:12:25 <satmd> then I'm 1.1.x
May 03 00:12:26 <jacekowski> but nokia already sells 1.2 devices in HK
May 03 00:12:36 <lcukn900> ok satmd is the card visible in file manager on the device
May 03 00:12:41 <lcukn900> unplug usb
May 03 00:12:51 <Termana> good morning
May 03 00:12:52 * DocScrutinizer ponders kicking jacekowski
May 03 00:12:52 <lcukn900> oh you have the back on the device i assume
May 03 00:13:00 <satmd> visible if unplugged
May 03 00:13:12 <jacekowski> satmd: it's ussualy when some programs have files open on card
May 03 00:13:17 <lcukn900> mornin termana
May 03 00:13:19 <jacekowski> satmd: have you tried rebooting it?
May 03 00:13:23 <satmd> we have
May 03 00:13:29 <satmd> and I also used lsof to check that
May 03 00:13:29 <jacekowski> we?
May 03 00:13:56 <jacekowski> explain "we"
May 03 00:13:59 <satmd> we as in 'we had that suggestion before' ;)
May 03 00:14:19 <lcukn900> satmd if it vanishes and appears as expected at tablet end it sounds like your desktop end is the weaklink right now?
May 03 00:14:48 <satmd> mh.
May 03 00:14:57 <satmd> standard linux desktop
May 03 00:15:06 * satmd gets an idea
May 03 00:15:08 <jacekowski> "standard"
May 03 00:15:09 <lcukn900> i know lol but look at whats happening..
May 03 00:15:10 <jacekowski> hmm
May 03 00:15:16 <jacekowski> try checking with dmesg
May 03 00:15:21 <satmd> it says 'Images not available' shortly after connecting
May 03 00:15:25 <jacekowski> if it's detecting it
May 03 00:15:42 <satmd> it is detecting ... the emmc instead of the sdhc card
May 03 00:15:46 <johnsu01> DocScrutinizer, javispedro: Yeah, searching turns up a lot of people saying "it shouldn't be too hard to write liblocation => gpsd..." ;)
May 03 00:15:55 <jacekowski> so what does it say in dmesg?
May 03 00:16:16 <satmd> [  266.576446] musb_hdrc periph: enabled ep1in for bulk IN, maxpacket 512
May 03 00:16:16 <satmd> [  266.576477] musb_hdrc periph: enabled ep1out for bulk OUT, maxpacket 512
May 03 00:16:16 <satmd> [  266.576538] g_file_storage gadget: high speed config #1
May 03 00:16:23 <javispedro> HOST dmesg.
May 03 00:16:25 <jacekowski> not on a phone
May 03 00:16:27 <satmd> oh
May 03 00:16:53 <satmd> mh
May 03 00:16:56 <satmd> weird
May 03 00:17:09 * satmd gets a feeling about filesystem labels
May 03 00:17:17 * satmd has something to try
May 03 00:17:37 <jacekowski> i feel diseased
May 03 00:17:42 <DocScrutinizer> grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr musb_hdrc
May 03 00:17:57 <satmd> alright... it is exporting both
May 03 00:18:02 <satmd> and both end up on the host
May 03 00:18:02 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: ?
May 03 00:18:06 <satmd> but... *drumroll*
May 03 00:18:23 <satmd> gnome is confused about duplicate filesystem labels, I guess
May 03 00:18:31 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: ???
May 03 00:19:04 <jacekowski> ??????
May 03 00:19:06 <lcukn900> satmd meh it happens
May 03 00:19:41 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: my special 'friend', Mentor pile of steaming BS
May 03 00:20:03 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: awwww, it works pretty well on beagleboard
May 03 00:20:06 <jacekowski> what's a problem with it?
May 03 00:20:17 <javispedro> the n900 fsckup must be caused by some weirdo interaction with this weird setup
May 03 00:20:22 <DocScrutinizer> missing hostmode
May 03 00:20:29 <javispedro> every time I read it the less I understand WHY it works.
May 03 00:20:57 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: welcome to the club :-S
May 03 00:21:19 <GeneralAntilles> Declare it magic and burn it for a witch!
May 03 00:21:21 <satmd> seems the n900 is exporting both with the same label :<
May 03 00:21:31 <javispedro> sometimes I think... does the schematic resemble ANYTHING the device I got in my hands?
May 03 00:21:51 <jacekowski> btw. is there any schematic avaliable for n900?
May 03 00:21:59 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: yes
May 03 00:22:02 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: search wiki
May 03 00:22:03 <lcukn900> satmd mmh odd
May 03 00:22:12 * lcukn900 sleeps anywa
May 03 00:22:13 <SpeedEvil> n900_hardware_schematic IIRC
May 03 00:22:16 <javispedro> satmd: the n900 doesn't get to decided the label; you can set it
May 03 00:22:21 <jacekowski> how accurate is it?
May 03 00:22:24 <javispedro> satmd: you mean filesystem/partition label?
May 03 00:22:32 <satmd> where can I set it - besides within bluetooth settings?
May 03 00:22:36 <satmd> yes
May 03 00:22:40 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: DocScrutinizer said he saw no differneces when he pulled his phone apart
May 03 00:22:42 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: compare http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900/ to the pics in schematics ;-)
May 03 00:22:47 <javispedro> satmd: you can use your host for that
May 03 00:23:12 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: however - his seems to be different to mine - the gold pads definately differ in my device.
May 03 00:23:12 <javispedro> satmd: use usual  linux relabeling tools (for vfat volume = mlabel)
May 03 00:23:23 * satmd lacked dosfstools
May 03 00:23:31 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: are the gold pads the same on your new one?
May 03 00:23:34 <satmd> mmh, those don't include mlabel
May 03 00:24:07 <DocScrutinizer> yes, it's the same
May 03 00:24:19 <javispedro> satmd: if you're sure that's the issue, you could also just pop the card on your average sd reader and rename it, or even use windows.
May 03 00:24:35 <javispedro> satmd: "mtools" package in debian
May 03 00:24:43 <satmd> alright, trying this
May 03 00:24:49 <Psi> hi, you guys might know this. I want to buy a bluetooth serial module for my n900 (or any cellphone) to provide a serial port.  If the bluetooth serial module says SPP (seral port profile) does that mean it will work with any phone that also says it supports bluetooth SPP
May 03 00:25:00 <Psi> ie, is SPP a bluetooth standard
May 03 00:25:32 <SpeedEvil> As I understand, yes.
May 03 00:25:36 <ShadowJK> there's difference between "client" and "server" though
May 03 00:25:39 <SpeedEvil> Psi:
May 03 00:25:43 <Psi> ya
May 03 00:25:44 * javispedro watches the delicate surface mounted usb port and shudders
May 03 00:25:54 <SpeedEvil> Psi: 'all' GPS modules implement this
May 03 00:25:56 <ShadowJK> but on n900 you've got access to rfcomm utility anyway
May 03 00:26:13 <jacekowski> i'm feeling tempted to get logic analuzer
May 03 00:26:16 <jacekowski> analyzer*
May 03 00:26:22 <Psi> SpeedEvil: interestingly thats one of the things i want to do
May 03 00:26:34 <Psi> bluetooth serial port module --> serial gps module
May 03 00:26:57 <SpeedEvil> why - when you can buy GPSs?
May 03 00:26:59 <ShadowJK> why not a bluetooth gps module..
May 03 00:27:00 <SpeedEvil> that have GPS
May 03 00:27:03 <SpeedEvil> err
May 03 00:27:05 <SpeedEvil> bluetooth
May 03 00:27:15 <SpeedEvil> http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=bluetooth%20gps&=&_sacat=See-All-Categories
May 03 00:27:15 <javispedro> did anyone identify the isp1707 there?
May 03 00:27:20 <Psi> thats just one of the things i want to do
May 03 00:27:25 <Psi> will have other things on the serial bus
May 03 00:27:29 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: huh?
May 03 00:27:41 <Psi> so they need to be seporate modules
May 03 00:27:41 <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/80-DISCOUNT-51-CHANNEL-GPS-BLUETOOTH-RECEIVER-BNIB-/230469516608?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CE_GPS_Accessories_Software_ET&hash=item35a90dbd40
May 03 00:27:55 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: in the high res photos
May 03 00:28:10 <Psi> gps needs to be true 10hz
May 03 00:28:12 * Psi looks at that one
May 03 00:28:13 <javispedro> I can see gaia, but I don't know where the isp1707 is or what it does look like.
May 03 00:28:13 <SpeedEvil> Psi: If you do your research carefully, you can find devices with seperate GPS and bluetooth devices.
May 03 00:28:21 <DocScrutinizer> I stared on it with my own eyes ;-P
May 03 00:28:42 <Psi> SpeedEvil: true
May 03 00:28:55 <Psi> well thanks for your help, ill keep looking into this
May 03 00:29:03 <SpeedEvil> Psi:
May 03 00:29:05 <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mini-USB-Bluetooth-Interface-GPS-Module-Demo-Board-/220596428264?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335c925de8
May 03 00:29:28 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: and I'd hope my scans are good enough you could read the 1707 writing on the chip yourself
May 03 00:29:31 <SpeedEvil> the bluetooth module is seperate from the GPS
May 03 00:29:32 <Psi> hm..
May 03 00:33:48 <satmd> mhm
May 03 00:36:50 <Macer> :)
May 03 00:36:54 <Macer> i'm going to install kde in windows
May 03 00:36:55 <Macer> haha
May 03 00:38:11 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: "707A" - clearly readable, next to maincam, a little left and down
May 03 00:38:35 <javispedro> aha, was having my doubts about that one :P
May 03 00:38:59 * chem|st is tired and falls asleep
May 03 00:39:32 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: directly under the battery contacts
May 03 00:39:41 <javispedro> ta, got it.
May 03 00:39:44 <satmd> is the sdhc supposed to be partitioned or is the filesystem usually on the whole disk?
May 03 00:40:15 <ShadowJK> one partition usuallu
May 03 00:40:19 <ShadowJK> uaually
May 03 00:40:27 <ShadowJK> oh I give up :)
May 03 00:40:40 <DocScrutinizer> lol
May 03 00:41:26 <ShadowJK> iirc the n900 mountscripts want to find a dos partition
May 03 00:42:10 <DocScrutinizer> aiui there are two basically different ways a SD can be formatted: either with partition(s) or in superfloppy mode
May 03 00:43:27 <ShadowJK> under linux I just use entire device :)
May 03 00:44:32 <satmd> now the n900 says broken memory card. great.
May 03 00:44:45 <satmd> so it was not supposed to be partitioned
May 03 00:45:10 <timeless_mbp> Trizt: ping
May 03 00:45:14 <DocScrutinizer> the nasty part is: a partitioned one with corrupt MBR/partition-table might get recognized as a superfloppy, and that's first step to *really* mangle it
May 03 00:46:03 <javispedro> satmd: I can assure you I have a particolored SD Card.
May 03 00:46:18 <javispedro> hum.. partitioned will do, spell checker, thanks.
May 03 00:46:35 <DocScrutinizer> muhaha
May 03 00:46:53 <DocScrutinizer> ~dict particolored
May 03 00:46:55 <infobot> Dictionary 'particolored' (1 of 3): Colored with different tints; variegated; as, a party-colored flower. "Parti-colored lambs." --Shak. [1913 Webster].
May 03 00:47:20 <javispedro> nice to know :)
May 03 00:47:51 <satmd> seem to have fixed it with mkfs.vfat -F32 -n sdhc -I /dev/sdX
May 03 00:48:04 <satmd> now it's named sdhc and nokia n900
May 03 00:48:12 <satmd> better than before
May 03 00:48:13 <satmd> :)
May 03 00:48:48 * javispedro now remembers that you can change filesystem labels from within the n900 file manager
May 03 00:48:50 <DocScrutinizer> that sounds to me like superfloppy format
May 03 00:49:33 <satmd> thanks all :)
May 03 00:49:49 <javispedro> for future reference, long tap on the memory card in the memory manager =) sorry!
May 03 00:49:51 <satmd> DocScrutinizer: it is
May 03 00:50:14 <satmd> because my n900 told me the card was corrupt otherwise
May 03 00:50:21 * satmd tries again
May 03 00:51:03 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: so what's happening with that usb?
May 03 00:51:03 <DocScrutinizer> satmd: hmm, no problems here with a 16GB partitoned VFAT/ext3/swap
May 03 00:51:12 <satmd> on the sdhc?
May 03 00:51:13 <satmd> weird
May 03 00:51:18 <satmd> maybe needs a reboot
May 03 00:51:32 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: ?
May 03 00:52:14 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i'm looking at datasheet for similiar chip to that in n900 and at circuit diagram of n900
May 03 00:52:32 <javispedro> for a start, the datasheet talks about an ID pi
May 03 00:52:33 <javispedro> n
May 03 00:52:34 <DocScrutinizer> satmd: after sfdisk changing partition table, you *must* remove and reinsert the uSD
May 03 00:52:48 <javispedro> that is connected from usb port to gaia/twl3040
May 03 00:52:54 <DocScrutinizer> or at least open and close the backlid
May 03 00:53:26 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: which datasheet?
May 03 00:53:35 <javispedro> s/datasheet/schematic
May 03 00:53:37 <javispedro> sorrrrrrrry again.
May 03 00:54:00 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, I know, and I'm sure it's correct but highly useless
May 03 00:54:24 <javispedro> but this makes me move to another question -- isp1707a also has an id pin, but even schematic says id pin was connected directly to twl3040
May 03 00:54:26 <DocScrutinizer> as there are no B-jacks with ID short to GND
May 03 00:54:50 <DocScrutinizer> the 1707 ID pin is at 3V3
May 03 00:55:08 <jacekowski> javispedro: if you read that isp1707 or similiar chip datasheet it says
May 03 00:55:09 <DocScrutinizer> doesn't matter
May 03 00:55:25 <satmd> mh
May 03 00:55:49 <jacekowski> For OTG applications, the ID (identification) pin is connected to the ID pin of the micro-AB
May 03 00:55:53 <jacekowski> receptacle. As defined in On-The-Go Supplement to the USB 2.0 Specification Rev. 1.3,
May 03 00:55:56 <jacekowski> the ID pin dictates the initial role of the link. If ID is detected as HIGH, the link must
May 03 00:55:59 <jacekowski> assume the role of a peripheral. If ID is detected as LOW, the link must assume a host
May 03 00:56:02 <javispedro> for non otg -- 3v3
May 03 00:56:03 <jacekowski> role. Roles can be swapped at a later time by using HNP.
May 03 00:56:03 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: yesyesyes
May 03 00:56:17 <jacekowski> HNP - host negotiation protocol
May 03 00:56:30 <DocScrutinizer> we're not interested in OTG
May 03 00:56:35 <johnsu01> it doesn't really help that people call liblocation gpsd
May 03 00:56:41 <DocScrutinizer> and even less in HNP
May 03 00:56:42 <jacekowski> isn't that OTG thing?
May 03 00:57:16 <SpeedEvil> If you read it again, you'll see that that's all done on the USB MAC - the phy does not do anything with the ID pin, but report it to the USB MAC
May 03 00:57:32 <javispedro> that would make sense.
May 03 00:57:39 <satmd> mhm
May 03 00:58:13 <DocScrutinizer> and again, we're not interested in the ID pin
May 03 00:58:35 <DocScrutinizer> it's merely a way to distinguish A-plugs from B-plugs
May 03 00:58:58 <DocScrutinizer> but we have no AB-receptacle, ergo no A-plugs on a B-receptacle
May 03 00:59:01 <javispedro> yeah, I'm just trying to guess how it ever worked.
May 03 00:59:47 <javispedro> isp1707 is plugged via ulpi to 3430, but the driver _as shipped with the N900_ is expecting a 3040 on the other side.
May 03 01:00:00 <DocScrutinizer> and even IF we ever were interested in ID, then we easily read out from TWL4030
May 03 01:00:09 * satmd gets the feeling to totally have fscked up
May 03 01:00:17 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: current driver is already sampling it!
May 03 01:00:20 <satmd> there's files I KNOW I deleted reappearing
May 03 01:01:00 <javispedro> in fact, grounding it would already switch musb to host mode...
May 03 01:01:04 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: that's the point where I shouted "screw that" and gave up
May 03 01:01:26 <DocScrutinizer> (driver not for 1707 that is)
May 03 01:02:19 <javispedro> so the question is: if gadget mode works with isp1707 with twl3040 driver, would switching modes work too? was this ever prepared -- did they made a 1707 driver then noticed wasn't needed because 3040 was "compatible enough", did they never made a 1707 specific driver?
May 03 01:02:26 <DocScrutinizer> though I guess TWL4030 and 1707 are highly compatible due to the UPLI
May 03 01:03:03 <DocScrutinizer> yes, probably
May 03 01:03:18 * javispedro would imagine "they ran out of time for 1707 driver then couldn't ask usb-if for we'll-fix-it-later compliance"
May 03 01:03:26 <satmd> haha, formatted the wrong disk
May 03 01:03:27 <satmd> -.-
May 03 01:03:42 <DocScrutinizer> exactly, javispedro
May 03 01:04:06 <DocScrutinizer> satmd: ohhh ferengi!!!
May 03 01:04:57 <satmd> mmh
May 03 01:05:02 <javispedro> another issue is that the twl3040 seems that everything is rather automated -- I guess the hw itself does something depending on id pin while the isp1707 does not (this would explain the fact that the twl3040 driver is rather simple but the beagleboard works ok with it)
May 03 01:05:05 <satmd> the only file missing now... is qf
May 03 01:05:58 <satmd> which seems to have survived on the sdhc
May 03 01:05:59 <satmd> fun.
May 03 01:06:31 <Mace_N900> ok. i am seriously staring to hate the method i need to use in order to use my bt keyboard
May 03 01:06:34 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: the 1707 would do if the ID pin was connected
May 03 01:06:38 <DocScrutinizer> aiui
May 03 01:06:41 <Mace_N900> it makes me feel ghetto heh
May 03 01:06:59 <DocScrutinizer> but anyway we can force 1707 into host mode via the interface
May 03 01:08:14 <javispedro> so I guess the current method of just trying to understand why musb_hdrc forced host mode works OK.
May 03 01:08:20 <javispedro> *doesn't work is OK.
May 03 01:08:57 <DocScrutinizer> jup
May 03 01:09:02 <DocScrutinizer> hope so
May 03 01:09:54 <DocScrutinizer> though of course it would be nice to replace the twl4030 phy defines by the correct 1707 defines (or .h or whatever)
May 03 01:10:22 <DocScrutinizer> except for the ID pin of course
May 03 01:10:35 <DocScrutinizer> and also except of the VBUS control
May 03 01:10:49 <javispedro> even if it somehow tried to configure the 1707 like if it was a 4030, the driver should enter a confused state and not just refuse to acknowledge host mode..
May 03 01:10:51 <DocScrutinizer> ID pin stays TWL4030
May 03 01:11:05 <DocScrutinizer> VBUS has to become something completely different#
May 03 01:11:16 <DocScrutinizer> probably some chatting with bme
May 03 01:11:19 <javispedro> vbus is connected to twl4030 and also miraculously works fine
May 03 01:11:28 <javispedro> (driver uses twl4030 for sampling it too)
May 03 01:12:31 <DocScrutinizer> VBUS *probing* can stay with 4030 or go to 1707. VBUS *generation* is bme domain
May 03 01:13:54 <javispedro> ack
May 03 01:14:08 <javispedro> yesterday's i2cset cmd, which device was that trying to talk with?
May 03 01:14:21 <DocScrutinizer> bq24150
May 03 01:14:35 * javispedro welcomes it to the party
May 03 01:14:42 <DocScrutinizer> aka USB Charger Chip
May 03 01:14:44 <javispedro> but probably under strict control of bme
May 03 01:14:51 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 03 01:14:59 <DocScrutinizer> that's the problem here
May 03 01:15:22 <satmd> alright, everything working again, thanks all who helped me :)
May 03 01:15:26 <DocScrutinizer> bme oisn't deaigned to handle VBUS-hostmode, I guess
May 03 01:15:41 <DocScrutinizer> freggles
May 03 01:15:48 <jacekowski> how is it supposed to provide 5v for it
May 03 01:15:48 <DocScrutinizer> isn't designed*
May 03 01:15:51 <javispedro> particolored!
May 03 01:16:02 <Funnyface> on my nokia N900's I have something that looks like cracks near the bottom right corner of the screen, is that normal, e.g. the backlight just showing through the screen, or is it actually a crack?
May 03 01:16:19 <Funnyface> I haven't dropped my phone yet so there's no reason it should be there
May 03 01:16:23 <jacekowski> it's probably a crack
May 03 01:17:04 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: bq24150 is supposed to do that
May 03 01:17:09 <Funnyface> thing is, it is showing up worse all the time
May 03 01:17:29 <Funnyface> my neighbour's N900 also has something similar but in other spots :p
May 03 01:19:13 <jacekowski> i'm going to get one of these tea like anti flu things
May 03 01:19:27 <jacekowski> and then i'll go to sleep
May 03 01:19:30 <jacekowski> so good night
May 03 01:20:08 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: bme is a real PITA
May 03 01:20:39 <Dima202> I was extracting easy debian image and my time says 8,35 when in fact it is not 9,20. Possible it will recover or what?
May 03 01:20:51 <Dima202> not i mean now*
May 03 01:21:45 <DocScrutinizer> Dima202: hclock --hwtosys
May 03 01:21:51 <DocScrutinizer> hwclock even
May 03 01:22:05 <DocScrutinizer> or simply start GPS
May 03 01:22:08 <javispedro> gnite
May 03 01:22:12 <DocScrutinizer> should fix the time
May 03 01:22:18 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: nite
May 03 01:25:18 <Dima202> I'll give it another hour...
May 03 01:25:57 <ShadowJK> I suspect he meant the device has been frozen for almost an hour
May 03 01:26:28 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
May 03 01:26:47 <DocScrutinizer> ~xyawn
May 03 01:26:48 <infobot> somebody said xyawn was coffee
May 03 01:26:52 <DocScrutinizer> k
May 03 01:29:24 <ShadowJK> although once I encountered a proper IO deadlock too :)
May 03 01:29:38 <ShadowJK> which resulted in random things freezing forever
May 03 01:29:46 <ShadowJK> and some things responding fine.
May 03 01:29:49 * DocScrutinizer wonders if it's correct we should get a N900 #include instead of the twl4030 and/or 1707 include, for the musb-core
May 03 01:33:10 <Funnyface> grr ok I am so soon going to reflash my N900..
May 03 01:33:22 <Funnyface> now the screen calibration tool won't work anymore.. heh
May 03 01:33:27 <Funnyface> after one click, it exits
May 03 01:33:36 <ShadowJK> it's fixed in 1.2
May 03 01:33:39 <ShadowJK> ;)
May 03 01:34:02 <Mace_N900> hm
May 03 01:34:27 <DocScrutinizer> fsck, 1.2 is a virus
May 03 01:34:52 <Mace_N900> wtf
May 03 01:35:17 <Funnyface> which reminds me, I was going to ask, is there anyone out there that approves whatever is being put up on the reposies?
May 03 01:35:26 <Funnyface> or can anyone upload anything they like..
May 03 01:35:57 <DocScrutinizer> to *-devel mostly no warranty whatsoever
May 03 01:36:09 <lcuk> everything on maemo.org extras servers goes through extensive peer review prior to inclusion
May 03 01:36:20 <DocScrutinizer> testing gets better, extras is checked
May 03 01:36:31 <lcuk> the other -devel and -testing repositories are a bit wild west and pot luck
May 03 01:36:48 <Funnyface> yeah on my next reflash I am not even going to include those
May 03 01:36:59 <lcuk> sounds reasonably sane :)
May 03 01:37:05 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
May 03 01:37:10 <lcuk> people generally include them for a specific app
May 03 01:37:17 <lcuk> but end up forgetting
May 03 01:37:50 <Funnyface> yeah well, some day I noticed that there were updates for xchat, vnc and.. something else, I think it might have been transmission, all from the same user
May 03 01:37:54 <Funnyface> which sounded a bit fishy to me
May 03 01:38:00 <lcuk> nahh
May 03 01:38:04 <Funnyface> all were in extrasdevel
May 03 01:38:07 <DocScrutinizer> ending up with bleeding edge versions of roundabout everything
May 03 01:53:35 <Dima202> Do you think we will get dual cores on phones within 3-4 years?
May 03 01:55:26 <asj> if not sooner? you could argue the n900 is almost dual core
May 03 01:56:16 <Dima202> How is N900 "almost" dual core?
May 03 01:56:27 <Dima202> no hyperthreading or anything
May 03 01:56:28 <asj> it has 2 cpus
May 03 01:56:29 <njsf_> 1 is almost 2 ? :)
May 03 01:56:42 <asj> just need to bring them closer together :)
May 03 01:57:03 <njsf_> asj: are you talking about the OMAP DSP ?
May 03 01:57:18 <asj> njsf_: what ever is running the radio
May 03 01:57:32 <njsf_> that is special purpose processor, cannot ever be considered as another general purpose core
May 03 01:58:17 <njsf_> but yes, it is  useful
May 03 01:58:26 <asj> njsf_: but wait, the main would be getting rid of that and taking care of the radio with the 2nd core, plus giving left over cpu power to the system when required
May 03 01:58:34 <njsf_> even more useful would be a more recent driver for the SGX graphics
May 03 01:59:56 <njsf_> asj: it is a difficult replacement. specialized DSP can be more effective than general cores taking much more power. in a  mobile device, specialized DSP and Graphics makes sense
May 03 02:00:14 <njsf_> if it is integrated on the CPU chip better, but that is not the point
May 03 02:01:34 <asj> njsf_: it would be interesting study to see.  The dsp isn't exactly a small cpu either based on the code size of 4-5 megs
May 03 02:01:43 <asj> well it's not running a small code base anyways
May 03 02:02:02 <ShadowJK> neon runs parallell with the arm core too :)
May 03 02:02:14 <ShadowJK> but they share instruction issue unit iirc
May 03 02:03:57 <njsf_> ShadowJK: that makes some sense in a cache / bus management perspective
May 03 02:04:26 <njsf_> but their instructions are routed differently, so they go to 2 different portions of the chiip
May 03 02:05:57 <ShadowJK> obviously they'll wait for eachother if they touch same data or if there's a dependency
May 03 02:12:58 <njsf_> Which is fine, since the programmer would have to take care of that when coding the DSP anyway
May 03 02:15:08 <N900evil> I wonder how mch more power neon uses - if it's used occasionally
May 03 02:15:38 <N900evil> might some stuff do with disabling at compile
May 03 02:16:18 <N900evil> e.g. waking up neon to do 200us of work...
May 03 02:25:43 <Dima202> HMMM 2 Hours now extracting this debian iso
May 03 02:25:48 <Dima202> I don't know ...
May 03 02:30:46 <b-man> Dima202: i think it's dead
May 03 02:31:30 <Dima202> It's telling me i have mail the led is blinking i have new mail
May 03 02:31:59 <Dima202> But otherwise it's pretty much unresponsive
May 03 02:32:12 <Dima202> How long does it usually take to extract debian iso?
May 03 02:32:50 <b-man> for me only a few minutes
May 03 02:33:21 <Dima202> Alright then I think this shall be my 3rd restart :( I hate doing it
May 03 02:38:47 <raster> ShadowJK: correct. though you pay a 20 cycle penalty getting stuff from neon -> arm (eg mov neon-reg -> arm reg)
May 03 02:39:05 <raster> but yes - the neon unit will happily execute in parallel otherwise
May 03 02:39:09 <DocScrutinizer> mooo
May 03 02:39:26 <raster> excetp that it shares the same cache lines and memory access lines as the arm core
May 03 02:39:32 <raster> and same instruction decoder
May 03 02:39:35 <raster> DocScrutinizer: docz!
May 03 02:39:43 <raster> the cool bit about that is
May 03 02:40:12 <raster> other than sharing memory bandwidht (and u share it no matter what with all hardware on your system unless you have multi-ported ram.. and my bet is you don't :))
May 03 02:40:31 <DocScrutinizer> lo
May 03 02:40:47 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
May 03 02:41:09 <jacekowski> so arm and neon is executed in parallel?
May 03 02:41:15 <raster> uu share instruction decoder - u otherwise can even keep both arm and neon units fed nicely - as long as the instructions are taking longer in general to execute than the instruction fetch/decode overhead
May 03 02:41:18 <raster> yup
May 03 02:41:22 <raster> they are
May 03 02:41:47 <jacekowski> how does it work
May 03 02:42:00 <jacekowski> i mean if i move stuff around a lot from neon to arm and backwards
May 03 02:42:08 <jacekowski> or just to and from memory
May 03 02:42:10 <raster> with caveats - like a 20 cycle penalty for going neon -> arm as well obviously neon stalls to syncronise
May 03 02:42:24 <raster> the answer is "don't do that"
May 03 02:42:26 <raster> do it all in neon
May 03 02:42:28 <jacekowski> that's what i was about to ask
May 03 02:42:28 <raster> or all in arm
May 03 02:42:37 <raster> use arm at best to do flow control
May 03 02:42:56 <raster> and let arm work on its own flow control logic entirely devoid of neon doing its thing
May 03 02:43:00 <jacekowski> does it synchronise them properly
May 03 02:43:01 <raster> neon works on "data" processing it
May 03 02:43:15 <raster> the arm then simply controls "eg" when to keep looping or not
May 03 02:43:16 <DocScrutinizer> and neon for the numbercrunching?
May 03 02:43:22 <raster> yes it does
May 03 02:43:40 <raster> the instr's hit arm first 0- thats why it can go arm -> neon with no penalty
May 03 02:43:45 <raster> as its just part of the pipeline
May 03 02:43:55 <raster> and neon instr's get passed on as part of the arm pipeline
May 03 02:44:00 <jacekowski> why 20 cycle?
May 03 02:44:05 <raster> but... going back means you stall
May 03 02:44:12 <raster> prob ably thats the pieline depth
May 03 02:44:13 <raster> :)
May 03 02:44:15 <raster> pipeline
May 03 02:44:23 <raster> DocScrutinizer: bingo
May 03 02:44:25 <jacekowski> it's much shorter
May 03 02:44:31 <raster> you need to recognise what neon was designed for
May 03 02:44:56 <jacekowski> netburst had around 20 and it was extremly long pipeline
May 03 02:44:59 <raster> jacekowski:  thats what it impirically ends up being. try yourself and see.
May 03 02:45:30 <jacekowski> how long does memory write takes on neon?
May 03 02:45:34 <raster> rememebr you have 2 pipelines here - both arm and neon
May 03 02:45:43 <raster> dunno
May 03 02:45:47 <raster> depends on your memory
May 03 02:45:49 <jacekowski> you just said it's one pipeline
May 03 02:45:49 <raster> :)
May 03 02:45:55 <raster> yes
May 03 02:46:03 <raster> but thats 2 pipelines tage end on end
May 03 02:46:05 <raster> tagged
May 03 02:46:11 <raster> its 1 stream of commands
May 03 02:46:21 <raster> arm ignores the neon ones it decodes and passes them on
May 03 02:46:37 <raster> the neon unit picks up the commands from the pipeline and then continues with its own internal pipeline
May 03 02:47:07 <raster> thats how it works and why you can control neon flow from the arm with no penalty
May 03 02:47:17 <raster> but the reverse is not feasible without a penalty
May 03 02:48:06 <raster> you simply design your algorithms+code to avoid or totally not depend on results generated by the neon unit
May 03 02:48:30 <jacekowski> i think it would be nicer to have neon as completly separate core
May 03 02:48:39 <raster> it may be faster to re-do the results in arm code
May 03 02:48:48 <raster> thats not how it's done
May 03 02:48:57 <raster> if it was - it'd also need different interaction
May 03 02:49:12 <jacekowski> it works out quite well for ps3
May 03 02:49:15 <DocScrutinizer> nah, it's a question of smart interleaving
May 03 02:49:22 <raster> like.. how woould you make it loop and then stop looping (without adding an arm core to the neon cpu to do compare, branch etc.)
May 03 02:49:31 <raster> as such arm didn't implement it that way
May 03 02:49:40 <raster> if you want a whole new core.. u have cortex-a9 :)
May 03 02:49:45 <jacekowski> the way how it's done now is for lazy programmers
May 03 02:49:52 <raster> as such neon is quite a nice design considering
May 03 02:50:01 <raster> they le3veraged the existing arm core infra very nicely
May 03 02:50:07 <jacekowski> unroll loops
May 03 02:50:07 <raster> that means fewer transistors.
May 03 02:50:12 <raster> no
May 03 02:50:29 <raster> you dont pay a penalty for loop controol if u keep loop control out of needing to know the computation results
May 03 02:50:39 <raster> and thqats actually the most common case by a large margin
May 03 02:51:00 <raster> while (ptr < end) { do number crunching per unit in the array; ptr++}
May 03 02:51:05 <raster> u pay no penalty
May 03 02:51:13 <raster> the pet, end and ptr++ are done arm side
May 03 02:51:22 <raster> u can even interleave some more arm instructions for free
May 03 02:51:53 <raster> if the neon instr are heavier than an increment, compare and branch
May 03 02:51:56 <jacekowski> imagine that your neon core could just decode your video all the time
May 03 02:51:57 <raster> (on the arm side)
May 03 02:52:05 <jacekowski> and arm core just picks up data whenever it can
May 03 02:52:16 <raster> thats what you have cortex-a9 for :)
May 03 02:52:30 <raster> the neon stuff is actually very neat
May 03 02:52:40 <raster> what you want is to implement a whole alu too
May 03 02:52:43 <raster> as part of neon
May 03 02:52:57 <raster> and then you basically create a new arm+neon core combo
May 03 02:52:59 <raster> and thats a9
May 03 02:53:40 <jacekowski> that's too much for anything mobile
May 03 02:53:45 <DocScrutinizer> compiler builders' nightmare :-P
May 03 02:54:11 <jacekowski> anything multithreaded is a programmers nightmare
May 03 02:54:22 <jacekowski> lazy programmer nightmare
May 03 02:54:29 <DocScrutinizer> lol
May 03 02:54:44 <Macer> oh wtf
May 03 02:54:49 <raster> jacekowski: and yes you ask for a whole other core for neon
May 03 02:54:54 <Macer> ctrl shift O enables the browser portrait mode?
May 03 02:55:03 <raster> which is precisely what you say is a nightmare
May 03 02:55:04 <jacekowski> anywas
May 03 02:55:07 <raster> make up your mind :)
May 03 02:55:07 <jacekowski> i'm going to sleep
May 03 02:55:15 <raster> and yes
May 03 02:55:18 <raster> threadin g is a royal pita
May 03 02:55:21 <raster> a bitch to debug
May 03 02:55:45 <jacekowski> it requires you to think in multithreaded way
May 03 02:55:48 <jacekowski> that's all
May 03 02:56:22 <raster> but with neon u are really low level too
May 03 02:56:35 <raster> so u'd better know this kind of stuff and be careful.. or dont use it
May 03 02:56:36 <raster> :)
May 03 02:56:42 <DocScrutinizer> what makes it a nightmare
May 03 02:56:49 <Macer> too bad the vkb doesn't do portrait mode as well
May 03 02:56:54 <Macer> wow this landscape only is killing me :)
May 03 02:57:04 <raster> jacekowski:  as does your suggestipon of a whole neon core than can execute 100% in parallel (ie not have its flow control from the arm core)
May 03 02:58:07 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: stop whining about a nonexistent portrait mode kbd that would be a royal pain to use anyway
May 03 02:58:45 <Macer> DocScrutinizer: haha
May 03 02:58:52 <Macer> worked fine in android :)
May 03 02:58:54 * Macer hides
May 03 02:58:59 <Termana> Macer:
May 03 02:59:06 <Termana> Sell n900, Buy Android device
May 03 02:59:10 <Termana> Build bridge, get over it
May 03 02:59:12 <Termana> :P
May 03 02:59:23 <Macer> but the n900 is so awesome
May 03 02:59:32 <Macer> other than that :)
May 03 02:59:37 <DocScrutinizer> make up your mind
May 03 02:59:45 <Macer> i didn't say the n900 sucked
May 03 02:59:49 <Termana> :P
May 03 02:59:51 <raster> actually other than actually running linux.. the n900 is mildly middle-ground.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon May 03 02:59:56 2010