**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 11 02:59:56 2010
May 11 03:00:00 <dAnIeLLL> b-man wow
May 11 03:00:52 <b-man|n900> dAnIeLLL: http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/fedora ;)
May 11 03:02:47 <DocScrutinizer51> ~lart dAnIeLLL the heretic
May 11 03:02:48 * infobot frags dAnIeLLL the heretic with his BFG9000
May 11 03:03:31 <dAnIeLLL> ^^
May 11 03:04:09 <dAnIeLLL> b-man|n900 and calls functions?
May 11 03:04:17 <kajko> so i hear usb host mode is coming to n900?
May 11 03:05:24 <Funnyfacemob> will probably need some hardware hacking
May 11 03:05:32 <b-man|n900> dAnIeLLL: not yet, but i can get the gsm modem working - i just need an application that can use it
May 11 03:05:50 <Funnyfacemob> I don't think the N900 can supply power to the device plugged in
May 11 03:06:09 <kajko> right
May 11 03:06:11 <dAnIeLLL> b-man|n900 hmm
May 11 03:06:12 <DocScrutinizer51> errr what?
May 11 03:07:57 * DocScrutinizer51 slapps Funnyfacemob with a bag of bq24150
May 11 03:08:18 <Funnyfacemob> I imagine an N900 hooked up to a TV with, with a usb hub connected, with mouse keyboard, printer etc etc plugged in :P
May 11 03:08:39 <DocScrutinizer51> ability to read is a clear advantage
May 11 03:09:07 <b-man|n900> Funnyfacemob: it'ts a software issue, not hardware issue - minimal host mode has already been achived on the n900
May 11 03:09:21 * b-man|n900 grabs the source
May 11 03:09:29 <DocScrutinizer51> ~hostmode
May 11 03:09:31 <infobot> from memory, hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652330
May 11 03:09:52 <b-man|n900> DocScrutinizer51: thanks lol
May 11 03:12:07 <Funnyfacemob> well sorry  if I am talking crap, I just think I remember reading that the USB port can't supply power, but is still capable of serving as a host if you modify a cable to supply power from an external source.. correct me if im wrong.
May 11 03:12:07 <DocScrutinizer51> friggin fail
May 11 03:12:24 * DocScrutinizer sighs
May 11 03:13:10 <DocScrutinizer> infobot: no, hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=649339#post649339
May 11 03:13:11 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer
May 11 03:14:02 <DocScrutinizer> Funnyfacemob: ^^^
May 11 03:17:54 <Funnyfacemob> alrighty, not the same thread that I read but that explains a bit I guess
May 11 03:32:42 <DocScrutinizer51> Funnyfacemob: btw thanks for closely following - the statement about "IF we can't get 5V for usb, we still can ahve hostmode with a special cable" was exactly my claim in roundabout february
May 11 03:35:41 <DocScrutinizer51> Funnyfacemob: and it's still true - even better, with such a cable you can even power/charge the N900 while e.g. a kbd is plugged in and active
May 11 03:36:22 <Funnyfacemob> yeah I haven't followed that progress too closely, because I can't see any real use for USB host other than "this is cool", there's still bluetooth :P
May 11 03:37:01 <DocScrutinizer51> BT kbd seems to suck
May 11 03:37:19 <DocScrutinizer51> compass
May 11 03:37:45 <DocScrutinizer51> usb memstick a friend gives to you to copy a file
May 11 03:37:56 <DocScrutinizer51> for 5 minutes
May 11 03:38:53 <DocScrutinizer51> your professional cam with sony memsticks or other non-mmc storage media
May 11 03:39:06 <Funnyfacemob> I have seen VM software that supports tunneling USB over networks, perhaps something similar can be done over wifi
May 11 03:39:33 <Funnyfacemob> if someone would make a tiny device with a wifi nic and a usb port :P
May 11 03:40:00 <DocScrutinizer51> there's a zillion possible setups that work for a particular case
May 11 03:40:23 <DocScrutinizer51> all of them involve a bulky set of adapters etc
May 11 03:40:33 <Funnyfacemob> hehe
May 11 03:40:54 <DocScrutinizer51> incl a 2nd battery etc
May 11 03:41:09 <Funnyfacemob> the easiest solution is probably.. "bring your laptop" :P
May 11 03:41:54 <DocScrutinizer51> tbh the best and most compact solution seen so far was "use zour N810 to tether the USB to N900"
May 11 03:42:31 <DocScrutinizer51> but we got hostmode now, so ditch all that crap
May 11 03:42:48 <Funnyfacemob> anyway, can bt connect multiple devices at the same time?
May 11 03:43:18 <Funnyfacemob> if not, that's a major drawback
May 11 03:43:31 <hawai`i> Funnyfacemob: Yes. Depends on the profiles though.
May 11 03:43:38 <DocScrutinizer51> notclear
May 11 03:43:57 <hawai`i> Funnyfacemob: You can't host to A2DP profiles at the same time
May 11 03:44:20 <hawai`i> Funnyfacemob: but you can A2DP and use the serial profile. Though, sound will come through choppy as you're chewing up the limited bandwidth.
May 11 03:44:33 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm, yet to proove
May 11 03:44:45 <hawai`i> Uh?
May 11 03:45:13 <hawai`i> DocScrutinizer51: you talkin' to me?!
May 11 03:45:25 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
May 11 03:45:38 <hawai`i> DocScrutinizer51: N900 we're talking about here?
May 11 03:45:47 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
May 11 03:45:57 <hawai`i> Does work. Yep.
May 11 03:46:02 <hawai`i> I've done it numerous times.
May 11 03:46:19 <DocScrutinizer51> amazing news
May 11 03:46:24 <hawai`i> Mind blowing.
May 11 03:46:38 <hawai`i> It's actually the reason the Hindenburg went down, believe it or not.
May 11 03:46:44 <Funnyfacemob> what speeds did you achieve with it?
May 11 03:47:08 <hawai`i> Basically un-useable.
May 11 03:47:10 <Funnyfacemob> my past experiences with bt has been roughly 60KB/s
May 11 03:47:15 <hawai`i> I never bothered to check the through-put
May 11 03:47:35 <hawai`i> but anything over 1MB, I don't even bother to send while using A2DP
May 11 03:50:07 <hawai`i> The ConnectNow widget has improved quite a bit
May 11 03:53:14 <Funnyfacemob> I'll go get some sleep.. laters
May 11 03:53:24 <hawai`i> Me too.
May 11 03:53:34 <hawai`i> GF is in bed, and I'm out here sitting in the dark.
May 11 03:53:54 <hawai`i> Glad I've got nothing to do this week :D
May 11 05:17:13 <RST38h> HELO punks
May 11 05:18:21 <silbo__> hello
May 11 05:18:30 <silbo__> Characterization of Silver Kuusik's the Eesti Infotehnoloogia Kolledž second year student.
May 11 05:18:40 <silbo__> is that a correct sentence?
May 11 05:19:28 <silbo__> the words aren't in correct order, how would you guys order them
May 11 05:19:45 <silbo__> Eesti Infotehnoloogia Kolledž is an Estonian school
May 11 05:20:40 <RST38h> it makes no sense
May 11 05:20:57 <silbo__> lol i know
May 11 05:21:04 <RST38h> Does Silver Kuusik own a student or what?
May 11 05:21:18 <silbo__> no
May 11 05:21:26 <asjWrk> Characterization of Silver Kuusik, a second year student at  the Eesti Infotehnoloogia Kolledž ?
May 11 05:21:28 <silbo__> can someone help me make this sentence logical
May 11 05:21:29 <RST38h> then the sentence is wrong
May 11 05:21:52 <asjWrk> s/ +/ /g
May 11 05:21:59 <RST38h> silbo: What exactly should it mean? If you know Russian, say it in Russian
May 11 05:22:28 <silbo__> sorry i don't speak Russian
May 11 05:22:36 * RST38h starts having suspicions about what "characterization" was supposed to mean
May 11 05:23:01 <asjWrk> silbo__: any other language?
May 11 05:23:05 <silbo__> im writing my caracterization or description, and im from IT kolledž
May 11 05:23:20 <RST38h> silbo: You are writing a CV? A Resume?
May 11 05:23:24 <silbo__> I can speak Germany yea
May 11 05:23:31 <silbo__> no it's not for CV
May 11 05:23:38 <silbo__> it's not that formal
May 11 05:23:45 <RST38h> What is it for then?
May 11 05:23:55 <silbo__> for a Stipendium
May 11 05:24:12 <silbo__> they told me that i should describe my self
May 11 05:24:29 <RST38h> A ll right
May 11 05:25:08 <silbo__> so is caracterization OK?
May 11 05:25:10 <ruskie> silbo__, fyi: college if you feel like using the right word ;)
May 11 05:25:19 <RST38h> silbo: The word Characterization (Characteristic) is not used in English in the same way
May 11 05:25:26 <silbo__> ok
May 11 05:25:37 <silbo__> can you find me a better word then xD?
May 11 05:25:41 <RST38h> silbo: I.e. there is no direct analog to XAPAKTEPuCTuKA that you are trying to use
May 11 05:26:18 <RST38h> silbo: I would skip the word completely, just have your name in larger font and the "Eesti ... student" underneath in smaller font
May 11 05:27:00 <silbo__> hmm, i thought that the first sentence is all about whats in the letter
May 11 05:27:13 <silbo__> what's
May 11 05:27:44 <RST38h> silbo: They will figure it out from the rest
May 11 05:28:01 <RST38h> silbo: The internet seems to suggest using CV for academic applications of this type
May 11 05:32:24 <silbo__> ok, thx for the help
May 11 05:33:17 <RST38h> silbo: Oh, wait, it would look better if you used "X year student at Eesti ... Institute"
May 11 05:35:35 <silbo__> i wrote it like that
May 11 05:35:37 <silbo__> Silver Kuusik, a second year student at the Eesti Infotehnoloogia College.
May 11 05:36:06 <RST38h> yep
May 11 05:37:22 <Traveler> Anyone here installed the SSU for Maemo4?
May 11 05:39:33 <RST38h> you mean community supported ssu?
May 11 05:40:02 <Traveler> ya
May 11 05:42:46 <RST38h> He! I have found the word!
May 11 05:43:39 <RST38h> silbo: This is ASSESSMENT. Or self-assessment, for that matter
May 11 06:15:27 <Shapeshifter> the way touch screen events are queued and executed when the gui is ready is really annoying.
May 11 06:32:36 <Surfa> how is te 10 days count calculated? as fmms has received new version 8.5. it can't be promoted to extras before 18.? even that relatively stable version was pushed in testing at 4. of may already?
May 11 06:33:11 <Corsac> Surfa: btw, does fMMS add something to the “share picture” tool?
May 11 06:35:10 <Surfa> Corsac, i have no idea, but it has sharing plugin that adds "MMS" option under the Services when sharing a picture
May 11 06:35:21 <Surfa> if that's what you were looking for :)
May 11 06:35:44 <viliny__> I noticed fmms seems to add a connection called mms as well...
May 11 06:36:07 <Surfa> viliny__, in certain connection methods yes
May 11 06:36:16 <Surfa> but using havoc mode souldn't do that
May 11 06:36:24 <Surfa> should not
May 11 06:37:27 <viliny__> Wish i knew someone who gave a flying fwoop about mms :)
May 11 06:37:41 <Corsac> Surfa: yeah, thanks
May 11 06:44:44 <pupnik> viliny__: the author of fmms, perhaps
May 11 06:45:12 <pupnik> who happens to be here, frequently
May 11 06:45:54 <viliny__> pupnik: no i mean i wish i had a base of friends that actually use that tech - i don't know anyone who actively uses mms - it's not that common here
May 11 06:46:17 <viliny__> which i guess might have to do with the finnish designers to not take it as a priority either
May 11 06:46:37 <pupnik> ah yes very true.  no interest in that crap here either.
May 11 06:46:37 <Surfa> many people actually use mms
May 11 06:47:02 <ruskie> I think I in 10 years or so only once received an MMS
May 11 06:47:13 <Surfa> take a scenario, your wife is at shop wanting to buy something and she wants you to see it, how can you share a photo?
May 11 06:47:43 <Surfa> she has no ovi share, no email..
May 11 06:47:45 <viliny__> if i take a picture and want to share it i: 1. Use e-mail because i can get a higher quality of picture 2. It's free 3. Receiver is more likely to be able to read his mail than receive an mms
May 11 06:48:09 <Surfa> e-mail in phones i niche for nerds, crowds don't have it configured
May 11 06:48:22 <Surfa> any other ideas?
May 11 06:49:16 <viliny__> Surfa, in my example the recipient is sitting at home when i'm buying my... well in your example a dress. E-mail is plentiful there - but yeah. Phone to phone... idunno.
May 11 06:49:17 <Surfa> this is actually a real life scenario that my colleague had.. he had n900 and what happened was that his wife bought whatever it is with husbands money without showing it :)
May 11 06:49:42 <Surfa> buying some baby stuff from a mall
May 11 06:49:46 <viliny__> only mms i ever got was animated stupid bunnies at easter or other juvenile shitty humour stuff that i wish i never received
May 11 06:50:05 <Surfa> hey guys, even that you don't use it doesn't mean crowds don't
May 11 06:50:14 <viliny__> I'm not arguing that
May 11 06:50:34 <viliny__> this started off by an off remark that the function is very underused in my country
May 11 06:50:36 <Surfa> it's quite widely used and useful feature as almost every phone is mms capable nowadays
May 11 06:50:52 <Surfa> what country may I ask? :)
May 11 06:51:00 <viliny__> Finland
May 11 06:51:29 <viliny__> Ah we share the country, how is your friend base then?
May 11 06:51:39 <Surfa> surprise: finland
May 11 06:51:53 <Surfa> and actually many relatives are sending mms too
May 11 06:51:57 * pupnik is visiting finland and *loves* it
May 11 06:52:09 <viliny__> Where about in Finland are you surfa?
May 11 06:52:14 <Surfa> "here's my lovely grand doughter swinging"
May 11 06:52:22 <Surfa> viliny__, tampere
May 11 06:52:36 <viliny__> hmmm... ok
May 11 06:52:58 <Surfa> it's not very advertised, but actually it is very used feature in finland
May 11 06:53:10 <viliny__> I reside in the Turku-Helsinki-Hanko triangle for the most part, heading to tampere next weekend for a party though - i'll ask them about mms ;)
May 11 06:53:25 <Surfa> people who have email of course mostly prefer that, but for typical s40/symbian user uses mms quite a lot
May 11 06:54:08 <Surfa> now that people are used to the thing that they have reasonable camera on the phone and you can actually share what you see with mms
May 11 06:54:22 <viliny__> Surfa: yeah, i can admit i'm wrong about the popularity - just haven't been subjected to the thing since it came out... Even my GF uses a phone so old that it doesn't support it.
May 11 06:54:35 <Khertan> In order to promote VectorMine to extras i offer 5 licences to the first tester. details on : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652789#post652789
May 11 06:54:37 <Khertan> Hi !
May 11 06:54:44 <viliny__> But now that i thought of that, my EX-EX sent me a lot of pictures via mms so i guess that alone makes me wrong
May 11 06:55:05 <Surfa> viliny__, camera development has probably given big boost for mms as well
May 11 06:55:23 <Surfa> so it's only lately i've noticed that most of my relatives are using it too
May 11 06:55:48 <nid0> hum
May 11 06:55:55 <pupnik> Just found a sweet little Vietnamese restaurant in Tampere if you want cheap/good food
May 11 06:56:12 <Surfa> which one?
May 11 06:56:30 <nid0> Khertan - you've got another thumbs up from me anyway, I tested it back when it first showed up but held off voting because of the package interface bug
May 11 06:56:43 <nid0> didnt have any problems with it other than that
May 11 06:56:54 <viliny__> We went to this small place that lets you build your own meals... in the form of noodles with beef in a cardboard cup thingie
May 11 06:57:00 <viliny__> in tampere that is
May 11 06:57:10 <pupnik> Tay Dohttp://eat.fi/restaurant/index/name/ravintola-tay-do
May 11 06:57:28 <viliny__> http://eat.fi/restaurant/index/name/ravintola-tay-do
May 11 06:57:53 <pupnik> :D
May 11 06:58:03 <pupnik> Give me an excuse to go again
May 11 06:58:09 <viliny__> Those pictures make the meals look like vomit but i guess thats most often the case
May 11 06:59:13 <pupnik> The vietnamese pancake is interesting and enough for two meals
May 11 07:00:19 <viliny__> having been there, are there any good parking spots near to that resteurant?
May 11 07:00:30 <Surfa> yes
May 11 07:00:37 <Surfa> a lot
May 11 07:00:44 <adeus> hey it's tampere
May 11 07:01:11 <adeus> parking is not a massive problem
May 11 07:01:13 <viliny__> last time i went to tampere, my navigator couldn't tell what a bridge was so that got interesting very fast
May 11 07:01:34 <mece> what the fuck is abill_uk doing in the community section?! Grr argh!
May 11 07:01:45 <Stskeeps> 'report post'
May 11 07:02:42 <Surfa> viliny__, btw. the havoc mode is probably the preferable way you want to use the fmms
May 11 07:03:00 <pupnik> good suggestions on the mypaint thread mece
May 11 07:03:15 <mece> did I suggest something?
May 11 07:03:26 <Surfa> viliny__, newly created mms apn seems to cause more trouble than hacked havoc mode as automatic connection seems to use mms-apn quite often :|
May 11 07:03:42 <Surfa> so not having an additional mms apn is appreciated
May 11 07:03:54 <mece> Stskeeps, I don't think he is breaking any actual rules. Just being a douche and off topic.
May 11 07:04:02 <Stskeeps> still
May 11 07:04:10 <mece> yeah ok.
May 11 07:04:31 <pupnik> hei Addison
May 11 07:04:33 <Addison> Greetings gentlemen!  :)
May 11 07:04:38 <Addison> Pupnik!
May 11 07:04:45 <Addison> Heya buddy!
May 11 07:05:19 <viliny__> Surfa: Havoc sounded a bit... well chaotic and destructive so i didn't want to choose that :)
May 11 07:05:41 <Addison> Hey, I'm just here to see if someone would like to waste a little time with me partitioning my memory card and extracting a rootfs file into the ext2 partition.  Anyone up for some pain?  :)
May 11 07:06:11 <alterego> Ooo, Opera 10 on the N900, nice,
May 11 07:06:14 * alterego downloads
May 11 07:06:41 <pupnik> http://www.zincland.com/powder/index.php?pagename=about   Roguelike i am testing.  Maybe you can tell me if it is worth a decent build for diablo/fremantle.
May 11 07:06:51 <alterego> Has portrait mo0de, this will be interesting :)
May 11 07:07:12 <Surfa> viliny__, you may feel that yes, but it hasn't caused any trouble yet.. but aggressive mode actually has :)
May 11 07:07:33 <Addison> Hey pupnik, I've got ukki's Angband newest Angband port that he never bothered sharing with anyone.  Interested?
May 11 07:07:38 <Scifi_> Hi, first time uploader here. Autobuilder says the status is OK but I can't see the app in extras-devel. Where can I check whats going on?
May 11 07:07:40 <pupnik> alterego: url / Addison - sure
May 11 07:07:49 <pupnik> yeah Addison
May 11 07:08:00 <alterego> pupnik: http://labs.opera.com/news/2010/05/11/
May 11 07:08:31 <alterego> No, flash, has it's own VKB currently, no power management
May 11 07:08:32 <adeus> whee now I hae 4 browsers on the phone
May 11 07:08:49 <Addison> It's 1.7 MB, pupnik.  Where can I send it?
May 11 07:08:57 <Stskeeps> opera mobile 10 for n8x0 too?
May 11 07:09:07 <alterego> Yup
May 11 07:09:21 <alterego> We've not had Opera on a tablet since the 770! RETRO!
May 11 07:09:26 <alterego> :D
May 11 07:09:28 <pupnik> *sweet* alterego
May 11 07:09:33 <alterego> I'm actually excited :D
May 11 07:09:53 <pupnik> Addison: maybe take it to #knots?
May 11 07:10:03 <alterego> (I actually don't use Opera at all mind)
May 11 07:10:21 <alterego> Though it was quite nice on my N95 *G & N96
May 11 07:10:24 <Addison> Okay.  Heading there now.  :)
May 11 07:10:27 <mece> Hey opera! Cool!
May 11 07:10:43 <mece> not that I need it, but the more the merrier.
May 11 07:11:13 <Scifi_> never mind. got it :)
May 11 07:11:17 <alterego> mece: I'm interested in performance, if it performs better I'll keep it on there :)
May 11 07:11:45 <TigerTael> alterego, how is it going?
May 11 07:11:55 <alterego> TigerTael: how's what going? :P
May 11 07:12:03 <TigerTael> Opera?
May 11 07:12:10 <alterego> It's not downloaded yet :P
May 11 07:12:10 <TigerTael> I see flash isn't supported. ;/
May 11 07:12:17 <alterego> St00pid 2G connection.
May 11 07:12:26 <alterego> TigerTael: I'm sure it'll be in their next release.
May 11 07:13:01 <alterego> Might be worth having a look to see if you can hack Flash support to work.
May 11 07:13:09 <alterego> Not sure how Opera manages it though.
May 11 07:15:22 <alterego> Okay, I'm gonna try downloading it now I've tethered my phone to my laptop's ADSL :)
May 11 07:15:27 <alterego> Much quicker :D
May 11 07:18:41 <mece> are there any social media aggregators (or what the hell you call it) on n900?
May 11 07:18:57 * mece is talking about software that bundles a bunch of social media networks into one app
May 11 07:18:59 <Appiah> a what now?
May 11 07:19:03 <Appiah> oh
May 11 07:19:15 <Appiah> Wasent there in maemo select or in ovi store?
May 11 07:19:26 <Appiah> I avoid these apps since I dont have any of the social media crap
May 11 07:19:43 <Appiah> But I'm sure I've seen that kind of stuff on the n900
May 11 07:20:16 <petteri> opera is sweet it has even nice keyboard for portrait mode :)
May 11 07:20:48 <alterego> petteri: I know! :D
May 11 07:20:52 <alterego> Thisis neat.
May 11 07:20:59 <mece> wow
May 11 07:21:03 <mece> that is sweet.
May 11 07:21:09 <Nitial> Isn't the whole telepathy framework/conversations the social media aggregator? :)
May 11 07:21:22 <fraggeln> mece: Hermes?
May 11 07:21:23 <Appiah> mece: http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/applications/friendstatus/ this
May 11 07:21:24 <alterego> quick too ...
May 11 07:21:42 <alterego> Little bit of tearing when scrolling, but apparently that'll be fixed.
May 11 07:21:45 <alterego> I really like it.
May 11 07:21:46 <fraggeln> mece: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/hermes/
May 11 07:22:19 <Appiah> is that not only for syncing the contacts fraggeln ?
May 11 07:22:38 <petteri> should thank those opera devs since the blog says that they did this with their spare time :)
May 11 07:22:42 <mece> fraggeln, thanks, I'll check that out.
May 11 07:23:13 <fraggeln> Appiah: I have no clue :)
May 11 07:23:16 <mece> petteri, I agree. Perhaps we will see an official release too someday.
May 11 07:23:24 <alterego> Heh, opera just crashed :(
May 11 07:23:37 <mece> hee
May 11 07:23:43 <Appiah> http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/applications/friendstatus/ <-this seams to be for interacting
May 11 07:23:46 <Appiah>  http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/hermes/
May 11 07:23:51 <Appiah> thats for sync
May 11 07:23:56 <Appiah> (I could be wrong)
May 11 07:24:01 <alterego> If you have it, try this, zoom in by tapping on an area (in portrait) then rotate the device to make it landscape.
May 11 07:24:05 <alterego> Does that reproduce it??
May 11 07:24:12 <wog_ice16> hi
May 11 07:24:37 <alterego> Strange, didn't crash this time.
May 11 07:25:59 <alterego> I especially like the "small" interface. Quite usable and less screen estate.
May 11 07:26:33 <mece> Appiah, thanks.
May 11 07:27:38 <alterego> Ooo, and "Opera Link" for sync between devices
May 11 07:28:19 <alterego> Oh, really like the tabs/dashboard thing.
May 11 07:31:50 <timeless_mbp> ping
May 11 07:31:56 <timeless_mbp> please load: http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/t5/Maemo-Devices/Install-certificate-on-the-N900/m-p/#
May 11 07:32:00 <ruskie> *KLANG*
May 11 07:32:09 <timeless_mbp> please click "Get support and software" at the top of the page
May 11 07:32:31 <ruskie> An Unexpected Error has occurred.
May 11 07:32:32 <ruskie> erm
May 11 07:32:33 <Corsac> #  An Unexpected Error has occurred.
May 11 07:33:04 <timeless_mbp> try again? (repeat until their server logs fill up)
May 11 07:33:12 <ruskie> why?
May 11 07:33:25 <timeless_mbp> i actually get:
May 11 07:33:25 <timeless_mbp> Forbidden
May 11 07:33:25 <timeless_mbp> You don't have permission to access /get-support-and-software on this server.
May 11 07:33:30 <Jaffa> Morning, all
May 11 07:33:31 <timeless_mbp> so i want to know why i'm special
May 11 07:33:38 <ruskie> timeless_mbp, hmm are you logged in?
May 11 07:33:47 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: we can't even access the initial page
May 11 07:33:52 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: MWKN should definately look at the opera mobile 10 news :)
May 11 07:33:54 <timeless_mbp> no, i couldn't figure out how to do that either
May 11 07:34:02 <timeless_mbp> try loading: http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/t5/Maemo-Devices/Install-certificate-on-the-N900/m-p/585095#
May 11 07:34:08 <Corsac> but http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/get-support-and-software is 403 here too
May 11 07:34:31 <ruskie> same
May 11 07:34:43 <timeless_mbp> does my last url work ^ ?
May 11 07:34:55 <pupnik> http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/  scroll down 1/3 of page to get some interesting pictures (good for work!)
May 11 07:35:31 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: yes
May 11 07:35:49 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: URL?
May 11 07:36:23 <ruskie> pupnik, nice ones
May 11 07:36:24 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52373
May 11 07:36:27 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: even for N8x0
May 11 07:36:37 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: now click "Get support and software" ?
May 11 07:39:27 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: 403 again
May 11 07:39:43 <alterego> Corsac: are you in the UK?
May 11 07:40:22 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: can you repeat for a while and then call them in 20mins to explain that the user experience sucked?
May 11 07:40:25 <Corsac> alterego: fr
May 11 07:40:36 <timeless_mbp> oh
May 11 07:40:41 <timeless_mbp> well, anyone in .uk? :)
May 11 07:40:56 * timeless_mbp wonders if the phone number is skypable
May 11 07:41:20 <timeless_mbp> nope, not skypeable :(
May 11 07:41:32 <alterego> I'm in the UK
May 11 07:41:35 <ruskie> there are non-skypeable phone numbers?
May 11 07:42:10 <timeless_mbp> ruskie: .eu numbers that start: 0800 and .us numbers that start 1800/1866/1877/1888 are skypeable from anywhere in the world for 0CUR
May 11 07:42:25 <timeless_mbp> although sometimes skype is busy
May 11 07:42:36 <timeless_mbp> but i've been using skype for over a year and had my first failure w/ that last night
May 11 07:43:04 <timeless_mbp> you're welcome to pay skype to call someone anywhere in the world, of course
May 11 07:43:09 <timeless_mbp> but i'd feel bad asking you to do so
May 11 07:43:17 <TigerTael> timeless, got a free number for me to test? :D
May 11 07:43:24 <timeless_mbp> +1800555TELL
May 11 07:44:04 <alterego> Well, I tried installing the flash plugin manually for opera, no worky :(
May 11 07:44:27 <timeless_mbp> try: news, technology, main menu, weather, 20210, main menu, entertainment, movies, **, travel, airlines, delta
May 11 07:44:27 <ruskie> timeless_mbp, I guess I just don't bother with skype at all
May 11 07:44:47 <timeless_mbp> TigerTael: that path should work, although at about 5mins they'll probably cut you off, just redial and continue :)
May 11 07:44:58 <timeless_mbp> note that they don't cut you off during a transferred connection
May 11 07:45:12 <timeless_mbp> (movies, airlines>*, hotels>*)
May 11 07:45:13 <TigerTael> ah.
May 11 07:45:24 <timeless_mbp> anyway, when you get tired you can use 'go back'
May 11 07:45:24 <TigerTael> let me test
May 11 07:45:54 <timeless_mbp> there's also +18005551212
May 11 07:46:07 <timeless_mbp> iirc tell me still has driving directions too
May 11 07:46:19 <timeless_mbp> but as i'm not in .us, it isn't as useful
May 11 07:46:41 <TigerTael> sweet, works
May 11 07:46:56 <timeless_mbp> i use most of 'news' on my way to work
May 11 07:47:13 <timeless_mbp> they used to let you select 'favorites' which would play through your favorites w/o requiring interaction
May 11 07:47:17 <timeless_mbp> but they broke it a while ago :(
May 11 07:47:19 <TigerTael> I never knew I could call those numbers for free.
May 11 07:47:34 <TigerTael> But there's a 5 minute limit?
May 11 07:47:42 <timeless_mbp> http://blogs.skype.com/en/2005/07/free_calls_to_tollfree_phone_n.html
May 11 07:47:50 <timeless_mbp> the 5 minute limit is on tell me's side, not skype
May 11 07:48:09 <TigerTael> okay cool!
May 11 07:48:14 <TigerTael> Thanks timeless_mbp!
May 11 07:48:27 <timeless_mbp> i don't think it's precisely 5 minutes
May 11 07:48:42 <timeless_mbp> and again, if they gateway you to someone else, they won't cut you off until you return
May 11 07:48:50 <timeless_mbp> and they never cut you off while you're using an item
May 11 07:48:56 <timeless_mbp> it's just when you're done w/ something
May 11 07:49:09 <TigerTael> I just never knew that about skype...
May 11 07:51:00 <dotblank> Check out the app im building..
May 11 07:51:01 <dotblank> http://imgur.com/19EVM.png
May 11 07:51:11 <dotblank> using this app as a way to learn qt
May 11 07:51:34 <ruskie> what does it do?
May 11 07:51:48 <alterego> Searchs and plays songs obviously ruskie :P
May 11 07:51:50 <dotblank> Its a grooveshark client
May 11 07:51:58 <Corsac> what's grooveshark?
May 11 07:52:07 <alterego> Internet radio
May 11 07:52:09 <timeless_mbp> oh, i'm limited to 10,000 minutes / month
May 11 07:52:12 <dotblank> http://listen.grooveshark.com/
May 11 07:52:15 <timeless_mbp> i suppose i should figure out how that works out
May 11 07:52:50 <dotblank> actually I fiqured out how the client-server communication all works..
May 11 07:53:03 <dotblank> im going to pretend to be the flash client
May 11 07:53:24 <furunk3l> y helo thar!
May 11 07:57:13 <alterego> IS Opera Turbo the proxy version?
May 11 07:57:33 <alterego> Where you go through Opera's server's to get a customised "experience"?
May 11 07:59:38 <adeus> yes
May 11 07:59:47 <alterego> Though so, cool.
May 11 08:00:14 <jacekowski> opera for maemo?
May 11 08:00:19 <adeus> yes
May 11 08:00:31 <alterego> jacekowski: http://labs.opera.com/news/2010/05/11/
May 11 08:00:34 <jacekowski> WOW
May 11 08:00:40 <jacekowski> i'm in love
May 11 08:00:47 <alterego> jacekowski: try it, it's really good even in Alpha
May 11 08:00:49 <jacekowski> i want to make kids with it
May 11 08:01:10 <jacekowski> that's a good question
May 11 08:01:12 <jacekowski> where is my phone
May 11 08:01:28 <alterego> Though, I had to install it manually.
May 11 08:01:38 <adeus> now you start looking for the phone to call it to find it
May 11 08:01:48 <jacekowski> now
May 11 08:01:52 <jacekowski> no
May 11 08:01:56 <jacekowski> i have phone on my desk
May 11 08:02:03 <jacekowski> which i recently cleaned up
May 11 08:02:56 <jacekowski> but there is one annoying thing with n900
May 11 08:03:10 <jacekowski> when i go to work i use fm transmitter to play some music in my car
May 11 08:03:14 * timeless_mbp pokes alterego
May 11 08:03:22 <timeless_mbp> alterego: did you try that web site?
May 11 08:03:23 <jacekowski> then i just pause media player when i get to work
May 11 08:03:43 <jacekowski> and after 1st phone call mplayer unpauses itself ( with fm tx disabled )
May 11 08:03:51 <dotblank> jacekowski, then you get a phone call and the music resumes?
May 11 08:03:58 <dotblank> yea I know
May 11 08:04:04 <dotblank> that is annoying
May 11 08:04:05 <jacekowski> that's so annoying
May 11 08:04:15 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: thanks
May 11 08:04:28 <jacekowski> in middle of meeting or something
May 11 08:04:32 <jacekowski> phone on silend
May 11 08:04:32 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: is there a bug filed?
May 11 08:04:34 <jacekowski> silent
May 11 08:04:43 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: probably yes
May 11 08:04:50 <dotblank> silent profile doesn't stop media player
May 11 08:04:54 <jacekowski> i know
May 11 08:04:54 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: can you switch from probably to 'yes'?
May 11 08:04:58 <timeless_mbp> (find or file a bug)
May 11 08:05:04 <jacekowski> i'll check
May 11 08:05:06 <timeless_mbp> thanks
May 11 08:05:12 <Corsac> that'll hold 1.2 more!
May 11 08:05:14 * Corsac giggles
May 11 08:05:14 <timeless_mbp> please don't assume we know about bugs
May 11 08:05:20 <timeless_mbp> we're really not that bright
May 11 08:05:28 <dotblank> jacekowski, if you modify the pulseaudio policy I think you can add it to a sink that will get muted in the silent profile mode
May 11 08:05:33 * timeless_mbp points to nokia's uk website
May 11 08:05:49 <jacekowski> it looks like there is no bug filed
May 11 08:06:02 <timeless_mbp> like the idiots running this support number interrupt the song more than once a minute, or so it seems :(
May 11 08:06:07 <dotblank> jacekowski, it also happens with the headphone deamon
May 11 08:06:09 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: are you implying that n900 doesn't have included mind readers which will report bugs automagically?
May 11 08:06:16 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: yep
May 11 08:06:24 <Corsac> pff, that device sucks!
May 11 08:06:51 <timeless_mbp> the feature was causing too many product delays!
May 11 08:06:56 <dotblank> im really liking this Qt thingy
May 11 08:07:19 <dotblank> Qt creater is a sick ide
May 11 08:07:21 <TomaszD> oh boy oh boy, opera mobile for maemo :)
May 11 08:07:53 <dotblank> when thext release comes out.. it will be awesome..
May 11 08:07:57 <timeless_mbp> hrm, my hold music died
May 11 08:08:01 <dotblank> all my newly made apps will work
May 11 08:08:02 <timeless_mbp> but there's no one on the line
May 11 08:08:08 <timeless_mbp> (it happened around the 5min mark)
May 11 08:09:15 <timeless_mbp> and resumed at 6:20
May 11 08:09:22 <Corsac> ¬¬
May 11 08:09:25 <timeless_mbp> so i guess they had a 90second pause for the music
May 11 08:09:28 <timeless_mbp> that was nice of them
May 11 08:10:27 <timeless_mbp> and they hung up on me?
May 11 08:11:06 <ZogG_N900> hey
May 11 08:11:16 <jacekowski> but going back to that music unpausing
May 11 08:11:17 <ZogG_N900> anyone awake here?
May 11 08:11:20 <jacekowski> that's very annoying
May 11 08:11:36 <jacekowski> when you are in the meeting or something
May 11 08:11:43 <timeless_mbp> ah, looks like my SIP presence died
May 11 08:11:45 <ZogG_N900> jacekowski, yeap that bug is annoying
May 11 08:12:00 <ZogG_N900> is it me or extra dev is down?
May 11 08:12:13 * timeless_mbp ponders
May 11 08:13:02 * ruskie ponders if it should be worth getting a webkit 1.2 deb and uzbl on the n900
May 11 08:14:13 <timeless_mbp1> hrm
May 11 08:14:23 <timeless_mbp1> maybe my wifi ap hickup'd :(
May 11 08:15:44 <Shapeshifter> nokia dude who designed the stand on the n900 is a bit dim. well, not the first time this is mentioned I guess ^^
May 11 08:16:04 <flashn> haha
May 11 08:16:11 <flashn> the stand is fail
May 11 08:16:19 <Stskeeps> the stand is just a hiding place for the cover magnet
May 11 08:16:20 <Stskeeps> :P
May 11 08:16:25 <Shapeshifter> well I like it better then no stand, but it's completely fail designed
May 11 08:16:32 <Mece> hey, is there a way to send only text through pixelpipe on n900?
May 11 08:19:01 <budfive> the n900 opera port is amazing!
May 11 08:19:17 <ruskie> hmmm that was a solution for getting a more working perl on the n900... scped over the perl 5.8.3 from scratchbox to /opt/perl and then bound mounted it... then only lacked one .pm and I had backup-manager working yay
May 11 08:21:06 <jacekowski> what's a current fw version?
May 11 08:21:20 <jacekowski> 2010.02-08?
May 11 08:21:23 <jacekowski> or is that 1.2?
May 11 08:21:38 <ruskie> isn't that 1.1.1?
May 11 08:21:49 <jacekowski> i'm asking
May 11 08:23:44 <ruskie> yup
May 11 08:27:11 <jacekowski> ~bug 10154
May 11 08:27:12 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10154 Music resumes after phone call
May 11 08:27:29 <jacekowski> ZogG_N900 dotblank
May 11 08:28:12 <pupnik> ruskie: help fix for everyone?
May 11 08:28:31 <ruskie> pupnik, it's probably not the best solution
May 11 08:28:33 <ZogG_N900> what
May 11 08:28:40 <ZogG_N900> i was here and not here
May 11 08:28:42 <ruskie> lol... that a weird bug
May 11 08:29:13 <ZogG_N900> ruskie, \o/
May 11 08:29:18 <ZogG_N900> opera \o/
May 11 08:29:27 <ZogG_N900> maemo \o/
May 11 08:29:35 <ZogG_N900> summer \o/
May 11 08:29:40 <ruskie> ZogG_N900, bored?
May 11 08:29:47 <ZogG_N900> so is extra dev is down?
May 11 08:29:51 <ruskie> no clue
May 11 08:30:05 <ZogG_N900> ruskie, have u ported any client for xmms2?
May 11 08:31:43 <ruskie> ZogG_N900, only built the xmms2-scrobbler
May 11 08:32:04 <ruskie> ZogG_N900, not packaged
May 11 08:32:14 <ruskie> I more or less gave up on bothering with it
May 11 08:32:55 <ruskie> not in the mood to learn how to backport debhelper 7 builds to deb5 or whatever ancient stoneage version is used
May 11 08:32:57 <pupnik> ruskie: I could use an app that lets me shuffle through my music library and delete mp3s
May 11 08:33:16 <pupnik> just change compat from 7 to 5 and if it breaks, give up
May 11 08:33:26 <ruskie> that's what I generally do
May 11 08:33:48 <ruskie> I'll probably try to get checkinstall working and just abuse that to generate packages
May 11 08:34:49 <dotblank> jacekowski, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7415
May 11 08:34:50 <povbot> Bug 7415: When accepting a call, music playback not paused & keeps on playing muted
May 11 08:35:15 <dotblank> sorta similar
May 11 08:37:10 <ruskie> the main problem with all these bugs is... it doesn't actually interact with the mediaplayer
May 11 08:37:22 <ruskie> it only mutes the pulse player group
May 11 08:37:34 <ruskie> and probably all others as well other than the comm one
May 11 08:37:45 <ruskie> so it doesn't interact with anything else
May 11 08:37:59 <dotblank> no.. headphone deamon pauses.. then the player is resumed
May 11 08:38:14 <dotblank> it is not muted
May 11 08:38:17 <ruskie> yes
May 11 08:38:22 <ruskie> but that's an extra tool that interacts
May 11 08:38:29 <ruskie> it's not core to the phone app
May 11 08:39:04 <dotblank> no but the phone app goes to the media player and resumes.. it is not a function of headphone daemon to resume after call
May 11 08:39:43 <ruskie> it is
May 11 08:39:59 <dotblank> well then the bug is in headphone deamon
May 11 08:40:06 <dotblank> daemon*
May 11 08:40:17 <ruskie> the headphone daemon is third party isn't it?
May 11 08:40:51 <ruskie> headphoned <-- yeah this is third party not nokia
May 11 08:41:21 <dotblank> right.. but im still not certain
May 11 08:41:56 <dotblank> just cause you say its headphoned doesn't mean it is.. I guess it needs to be debugged to find out whats really going on
May 11 08:42:15 <dotblank> headphoned's only purpose is to pause on headphone removal
May 11 08:42:21 <ruskie> https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?group_id=1092
May 11 08:42:31 <ruskie> https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=5302&group_id=1092&atid=4099
May 11 08:42:42 <ruskie> https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=5415&group_id=1092&atid=4099
May 11 08:44:43 <dotblank> ruskie, hmm I see. Where these implemented says the bug is still open
May 11 08:45:27 <ruskie> the phone app as said simply tells pulse to mute all other streams and then unmutes them to the previous state
May 11 08:45:41 <ruskie> since without headpohend music just keeps playing but muted
May 11 08:45:56 <dotblank> right
May 11 08:46:15 <dotblank> I guess it just needs someone to submit a patch or something
May 11 08:46:33 <dotblank> for headphoned
May 11 08:46:56 <ruskie> I wonder if it supports running arbitrary commands yet
May 11 08:47:57 <ruskie> hmm doesn't seem to yet
May 11 08:48:46 <jacekowski> ruskie: and it unpauses media player after call
May 11 08:49:25 <ruskie> jacekowski, the phone app doesn't pause anything
May 11 08:49:42 <jacekowski> so mplayer unpauses itself after a call
May 11 08:50:26 <ruskie> who unpauses? the phone app? or headphoned?
May 11 08:50:36 <jacekowski> i don't have headphoned
May 11 08:50:39 <dotblank> ok...
May 11 08:50:53 <jacekowski> so it's either phone app or mplayer
May 11 08:50:59 <ruskie> it mutes
May 11 08:51:01 <dotblank> this is weird.. I looked at headphoned's source and it sends no unpause or resume signals
May 11 08:51:16 <jacekowski> I DON'T HAVE FSCKING HEADPHONED AND IT STILL HAPPENS
May 11 08:51:17 <dotblank> jacekowski, it resumes with playback from headphoned
May 11 08:51:29 <dotblank> jacekowski, these are two differant bugs now
May 11 08:51:34 <ruskie> jacekowski, how do you know it pauses?
May 11 08:51:39 <ruskie> and not just mutes?
May 11 08:51:43 <dotblank> ruskie, he says it mutes
May 11 08:51:45 <jacekowski> i don't know
May 11 08:51:51 <ruskie> dotblank, he doesn't
May 11 08:51:52 <jacekowski> i have media player paused
May 11 08:51:56 <dotblank> ruskie, lol
May 11 08:51:59 <jacekowski> i go to meeting with phone on silent
May 11 08:52:03 <jacekowski> somebody calls me
May 11 08:52:06 <jacekowski> i ignore him
May 11 08:52:08 <dotblank> right in that way they are the same bug..
May 11 08:52:11 <jacekowski> and then it starts
May 11 08:52:14 <dotblank> because phone app resumes
May 11 08:52:19 <dotblank> regardles
May 11 08:52:43 <jacekowski> media player is unpaused for some reason
May 11 08:52:53 <ruskie> hmm I see the bug now... gah... need to read better
May 11 08:52:53 <dotblank> I looked at headphoned's source and it isn't resuming it. so its either media player or phone
May 11 08:53:04 <pupnik> <BTAxis> I dreamt there was a program called "goodbye world", which actually destroyed the world.
May 11 08:53:14 <ShadowJK> isn't the resume known bug?
May 11 08:53:18 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: yes
May 11 08:53:26 <jacekowski> but nobody reported it
May 11 08:53:49 <jacekowski> well
May 11 08:53:53 <jacekowski> i did 20 minutes ago
May 11 08:54:00 <jacekowski> ~bug 10154
May 11 08:54:00 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10154 Music resumes after phone call
May 11 08:54:06 <ruskie> dotblank, you sure it doesn't just toggle a state? not send an explicit resume
May 11 08:54:33 <ruskie> dotblank, a lot of apps use the same pause signal for both play and pause
May 11 08:55:13 <ruskie> it could be though that either mediaplayer listens for a phone hangup signal or phone app actually sends a resume
May 11 08:55:25 <dotblank>  osso_rpc_run(headphoned->osso,MEDIA_SERVER_SRVC,MEDIA_SERVER_PATH,MEDIA_SERVER_INTF,"pause",NULL,DBUS_TYPE_INVALID);
May 11 08:55:29 <jacekowski> ruskie: well it happens only once
May 11 08:55:45 <jacekowski> and then if you pause it again
May 11 08:55:48 <ruskie> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7415 <-- but jacekowski this is according to some other bug... the music only gets muted
May 11 08:55:48 <povbot> Bug 7415: When accepting a call, music playback not paused & keeps on playing muted
May 11 08:55:51 <jacekowski> it doesn't happen
May 11 08:56:00 <jacekowski> FFS
May 11 08:56:03 <jacekowski> read the fucking bug
May 11 08:56:09 <jacekowski> i pause it myself
May 11 08:56:16 <jacekowski> and it resumes hours later
May 11 08:56:21 <jacekowski> after a phone clal
May 11 08:56:23 <jacekowski> call*
May 11 08:56:25 <ruskie> jacekowski, yes I read that
May 11 08:56:29 <ruskie> no need to be insulting
May 11 08:56:37 <ruskie> but I'm looking at it from a differnt point of view
May 11 08:56:43 <ruskie> trying to see what might be the prob
May 11 08:56:45 <dotblank> jacekowski, yup and its when you hangup / terminate the call it actually resumes media player
May 11 08:56:49 <ruskie> because due to that other bug it should just mute
May 11 08:57:15 <dotblank> ruskie, no.. this is differant... his music is paused BEFORE he gets call manually
May 11 08:57:18 <ruskie> has anyone actually dbus-listened for after call signals to see what might be triggering it?
May 11 08:57:24 <ruskie> dotblank, yes I know
May 11 08:57:31 <dotblank> I can do that right now
May 11 08:57:34 <dotblank> h/o
May 11 08:58:23 <alterego> Erm, hasn't the photo's application alwayus had a bulk share feature?
May 11 08:58:34 <alterego> This guy is mentioning it's in the leaked FW
May 11 08:58:42 <ruskie> alterego, hmm I don't recall bulk share
May 11 08:58:49 <ruskie> what leaked fw?
May 11 08:59:02 <dotblank> ruskie, what package has that tool. I recently reflashed and don't have it anymore
May 11 08:59:05 <alterego> The leaked N900 PR1.2 firmware
May 11 08:59:06 <viliny__> ruskie, i guess he means the pr 1.2 that leaked out
May 11 08:59:17 <dotblank> ruskie, nvm its called dbus-monitor
May 11 08:59:43 <ruskie> it leaked out? OMG!!! save it save it save it... ;)
May 11 08:59:45 <alterego> You just open photo's: menu -> share images. and away yougo ..
May 11 09:00:06 <alterego> I've had it from at least 1.1.1 (which is what I'm on now)
May 11 09:00:39 <ruskie> gah need to dig up the code for the cli sharing thingy
May 11 09:00:43 <anger> anyone tested 1.2?
May 11 09:01:03 <alterego> anger: you're unlikely to get a response from that question in here.
May 11 09:01:18 <anger> hehe
May 11 09:01:33 <anger> just wondering about updates for MfE
May 11 09:02:34 <anger> and of course wlan with peap and mschapv2
May 11 09:02:39 <dotblank> ruskie, jacekowski it didn't trigger for me on call termination
May 11 09:02:54 <alterego> Well, 1.2 hasn't been released yet anger :)
May 11 09:03:04 <dotblank> like it didn't resume.. jacekowski what firmware are you using?
May 11 09:03:06 <alterego> No one can truthfully say that the leaked FW is 1.2 :P
May 11 09:03:20 <alterego> In fact, we know it isn't 1.2 :)
May 11 09:03:30 <anger> alterego: yep
May 11 09:03:39 <dotblank> I KNOW this used to happen
May 11 09:04:07 <ruskie> dotblank, so you can't reproduce the bug?
May 11 09:04:29 <dotblank> ruskie, not on my firmware.. I recently reflashed... I want to know jacekowski version
May 11 09:04:59 <ruskie> dotblank, it's in the bug
May 11 09:05:08 <ruskie> 3.2010.02-8
May 11 09:05:13 <ShadowJK> I'm pretty sure I've seen "music resumes after call" bug on bmo before..
May 11 09:05:30 <ruskie> ShadowJK, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7415 this maybe?
May 11 09:05:31 <povbot> Bug 7415: When accepting a call, music playback not paused & keeps on playing muted
May 11 09:05:56 <ShadowJK> no not that
May 11 09:05:58 <dotblank> ruskie, ok I am running that version.. maybe it has more conditions
May 11 09:09:23 <ruskie> dotblank, hmm and you have headphoned or not?
May 11 09:09:24 <dotblank> ruskie, well I can't seem to reproduce it
May 11 09:09:32 <dotblank> ruskie, I tried it with both
May 11 09:09:35 <ruskie> ahh
May 11 09:09:36 <ruskie> ok
May 11 09:09:44 <dotblank> not reproduceable with the specified criteria
May 11 09:10:35 <dotblank> But its weird in that I have observed this behaviour
May 11 09:12:11 <ruskie> dotblank, hmm according to jacekowski it happens only one time then it works as expected apparently or so I understood him further up in the backbuffer
May 11 09:12:57 <ruskie> might need a freshly rebooted system for it to happen
May 11 09:13:24 <dotblank> im about 99% sure it isn't headphoned
May 11 09:13:54 <ruskie> could be some stray double signal that isn't consumed on the first go
May 11 09:13:56 <ShadowJK> do you have mediaplayer widget?
May 11 09:14:05 <dotblank> yes
May 11 09:14:16 <ShadowJK> try remove that
May 11 09:14:20 <ShadowJK> (from desktop)
May 11 09:14:31 <jacekowski> i'm 100% sure that it's not headphoned
May 11 09:14:37 <jacekowski> because i don't have it
May 11 09:14:56 <ShadowJK> I vaguely remember that widget mentioned in the bugreport that apparently doesn't exist
May 11 09:15:09 <ruskie> jacekowski, if I understood your earlier comment it happens for the first time but after that it works as it should?
May 11 09:15:27 <jacekowski> apparently
May 11 09:15:34 <jacekowski> i'll have to do some more testing
May 11 09:15:36 <dotblank> jacekowski, im having trouble reproducing it. Are you able to reproduce it?
May 11 09:16:12 <dotblank> jacekowski, if you are can you run dbus-monitor | tee debug.txt during the event
May 11 09:16:40 <jacekowski> just give me a sec to restart phone
May 11 09:16:47 <jacekowski> besides?
May 11 09:16:50 <jacekowski> besides...
May 11 09:16:53 <jacekowski> why tee?
May 11 09:17:05 <dotblank> well if you want you can just >
May 11 09:17:11 <dotblank> but i assume your curious
May 11 09:17:13 <jacekowski>  > something would work
May 11 09:19:16 <dotblank> AH!
May 11 09:19:24 <dotblank> I just spilled mountain dew all over my desk
May 11 09:19:34 <dotblank> this NEVER happens
May 11 09:19:40 <timeless_mbp1> never say never!
May 11 09:19:54 <dotblank> some got on my bed
May 11 09:19:54 <ruskie> lol
May 11 09:19:57 <ruskie> sucks
May 11 09:20:17 <dotblank> it was one inch away from my caseless computer
May 11 09:20:27 <alterego> Gutted.
May 11 09:20:36 <alterego> And lucky :P
May 11 09:20:44 <timeless_mbp1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql1IFJwF0SQ
May 11 09:20:59 <dneary> amigadave, You saw my mail to maemo-community yesterday?
May 11 09:21:08 <dotblank> It landed on my cat too.. Now hes tearing up all my papers
May 11 09:21:09 <dneary> The wiki import didn't happen, as you can see
May 11 09:21:37 <amigadave> dneary: i did not see it, but i saw that the update did not go through, so i categorized the pages
May 11 09:22:17 <jacekowski> hmm
May 11 09:22:23 <jacekowski> i can't make it happen again
May 11 09:22:28 <dneary> amigadave, X-Fade nixed the import (rightly so, in my opinion) - "I'm not going to install 45 packages from a custom repository and then write directly into a production database"
May 11 09:22:35 <jacekowski> but it happened loads of times before
May 11 09:22:37 <dneary> hi teko
May 11 09:22:45 <dneary> tekojo, even
May 11 09:22:46 <jacekowski> i'll play around with it little bit more
May 11 09:23:08 <amigadave> dneary: ha, i should read that email, sounds better than caffeine :)
May 11 09:23:44 <dneary> "Cannot import directly..."
May 11 09:23:47 <dneary> is the subject
May 11 09:25:18 * timeless_mbp1 ponders
May 11 09:25:24 <timeless_mbp1> i've been on hold for 55 minutes
May 11 09:25:37 <timeless_mbp1> it's nice to feel like a customer
May 11 09:25:38 <dotblank> hold for 55 mins?
May 11 09:25:44 <timeless_mbp1> nokia-care-uk
May 11 09:25:48 <dotblank> l9ol
May 11 09:26:00 <timeless_mbp1> well, "sorry, our lines are busy, we will answer your call, shortly"
May 11 09:26:24 <timeless_mbp1> the lady has a strange definition of "shortly"
May 11 09:26:25 <dotblank> I like pressing 0 on the keypad over and over
May 11 09:26:28 <timeless_mbp1> (she said it again)
May 11 09:26:32 <timeless_mbp1> dotblank: that's cheating
May 11 09:26:35 <timeless_mbp1> but you're welcome to try
May 11 09:26:38 <dotblank> some systems have diction and if you say help help help
May 11 09:26:41 <dotblank> they will answer
May 11 09:26:55 <timeless_mbp1> but why should i cheat?
May 11 09:26:58 <timeless_mbp1> i'm just a customer
May 11 09:27:08 <dotblank> youve been on the line for 55 mins
May 11 09:27:08 <timeless_mbp1> as an employee, if i wanted to cheat, i could call them internally
May 11 09:27:16 <dotblank> ah
May 11 09:27:20 <dotblank> didn;t know that
May 11 09:27:24 <timeless_mbp1> dotblank: at this point, i might as well stick around and see how long it takes
May 11 09:27:34 <Stskeeps> calling nokia care? :P
May 11 09:27:37 <timeless_mbp1> yes
May 11 09:27:47 <timeless_mbp1> i'm sick of playing email tag w/ internals
May 11 09:27:53 <timeless_mbp1> Stskeeps: try this
May 11 09:27:58 <Stskeeps> busy, sorry
May 11 09:28:01 <timeless_mbp1> load: http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/t5/Maemo-Devices/adding-a-certificate-to-my-N900/m-p/586840#M1112
May 11 09:28:11 <timeless_mbp1> at the very top, click "# Get support and software"
May 11 09:28:19 <timeless_mbp1> use any browser, it takes <1min
May 11 09:30:40 * timeless_mbp1 sighs
May 11 09:31:06 <timeless_mbp> dotblank: got an n900 handy?
May 11 09:31:28 <pupnik> i can try whatever
May 11 09:31:38 <timeless_mbp> open settings
May 11 09:31:41 <timeless_mbp> open certificates
May 11 09:31:57 <pupnik> ok
May 11 09:32:01 <timeless_mbp> is there a way to import?
May 11 09:32:14 <pupnik> no
May 11 09:32:22 <pupnik> just a popup list of certs
May 11 09:32:27 <timeless_mbp> hrm, so this is a "new" broken feature
May 11 09:32:29 <timeless_mbp> wonderful
May 11 09:32:30 <pupnik> in Settings->Certificate manager
May 11 09:32:35 <timeless_mbp> yeah
May 11 09:32:44 <timeless_mbp> "certificates" is my translation
May 11 09:33:20 <timeless_mbp> w/o an import feature, it's hardly a manager :)
May 11 09:33:34 <timeless_mbp> (w/ an import button that doesn't let you import anything, it's still hardly a manager)
May 11 09:33:40 <pupnik> good point
May 11 09:34:01 <Corsac> well, I had that issue since the beginning, but quickly found the workaround to double tap in the file manager
May 11 09:34:07 <Corsac> (I guess someone told me that here)
May 11 09:34:20 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: yeah
May 11 09:34:25 <timeless_mbp> but that's not really my problem
May 11 09:35:51 <timeless_mbp> ah, it works better closer to pr1.2
May 11 09:36:29 * timeless_mbp considers downloading pr1.2
May 11 09:37:24 <X-Fade> timeless_mbp: There is a '+ Import certificate' button there.
May 11 09:37:30 <timeless_mbp> X-Fade: yeah
May 11 09:37:40 <timeless_mbp> in my ancient build, the dialog is empty
May 11 09:37:47 <timeless_mbp> in my pr12 cand, the dialog works
May 11 09:37:53 <timeless_mbp> note to self: reflash old device
May 11 09:38:12 <timeless_mbp> oh!
May 11 09:38:17 <timeless_mbp> no, that's not the problem
May 11 09:38:26 <timeless_mbp> the problem is that MyDocs is exported via USB
May 11 09:39:06 * timeless_mbp figured it out when file manager behaved the same way...
May 11 09:41:42 <X-Fade> rcg-work: ping?
May 11 09:52:47 <anger> you had problems importing certificates?
May 11 09:53:00 <Scelt> pr1.2
May 11 09:53:02 <Scelt> WHERE?
May 11 09:53:13 <Scelt> timeless_mbp: where is pr1.2?
May 11 09:53:14 <pupnik> shush please
May 11 09:53:18 <anger> I just emailed it, opened the message in n900 and clicked the attachment
May 11 09:53:22 <Appiah> omg...
May 11 09:55:27 <timeless_mbp> anger: no, i had problems using the file picker
May 11 09:55:33 <timeless_mbp> because i forgot about the usb cable
May 11 09:55:41 <timeless_mbp> both of my n900s are plugged into usb cables
May 11 09:55:48 <timeless_mbp> but one's usb-power, and one's usb-pc
May 11 09:55:54 <anger> timeless_mbp: ok, didn't quite follow :)
May 11 09:56:07 <timeless_mbp> i do have a problem w/ a certificate
May 11 09:56:18 <timeless_mbp> but it's a problem w/ a certificate, not importing it
May 11 09:56:22 <anger> same here
May 11 09:56:24 <timeless_mbp> the certificate imports, it just goes to the wrong place
May 11 09:56:27 <timeless_mbp> gimme yours
May 11 09:56:37 <timeless_mbp> i have 2 which import fine and work great
May 11 09:56:44 <timeless_mbp> and one which seems broken
May 11 09:56:45 <anger> I have imported the certificate but it seems like it's not being used...
May 11 09:56:58 <wall[e]> i think i need a harder reflash
May 11 09:56:59 <wall[e]> qtirreco stops working after reflash
May 11 09:57:00 <timeless_mbp> anger: presumably this is a public certificate, please provide me w/ a url to it
May 11 09:57:03 <anger> I'm trying to setup both MfE and corporate wlan
May 11 09:57:04 <wall[e]> or may be i should wait for 1.2
May 11 09:57:15 <timeless_mbp> anger: i have both of those working
May 11 09:57:21 <timeless_mbp> gimme your public cert!
May 11 09:57:26 <ruskie> lol
May 11 09:57:26 <timeless_mbp> gimme! gimme!
May 11 09:57:43 <timeless_mbp> this mythical problem has been haunting us for a year now
May 11 09:57:54 <timeless_mbp> but no one came with an actual cert, don't be a tease. gimme!
May 11 09:58:23 * timeless_mbp has been listening to hold music for 88 minutes
May 11 09:58:44 <pupnik> Postel’s Law: “Be conservative in what you do; be liberal in what you accept from others.”
May 11 10:00:35 <SpeedEvil> With Fusnik's addendum - and hunt down and kill all flash developers.
May 11 10:02:32 <RST38h> Only after Java developers are all taken care of
May 11 10:02:52 <RST38h> (and that may require at least one large scale genocyde)
May 11 10:03:12 <ruskie> you left out .NET
May 11 10:03:24 <ruskie> ow an silverlight
May 11 10:03:37 <pupnik> i accept that from you guys
May 11 10:04:24 <jacekowski> hmm mono on maemo
May 11 10:04:29 <ruskie> scary
May 11 10:04:42 * RST38h will spare .NET people
May 11 10:04:45 <ruskie> apt-get install nomono
May 11 10:04:55 <ruskie> or what's that metapackage
May 11 10:04:57 <RST38h> Let them live in their really small closed garden
May 11 10:05:59 <jacekowski> .net is the best platform at the moment
May 11 10:06:09 <jacekowski> it's faster than java
May 11 10:06:14 <jacekowski> uses less memory than java
May 11 10:06:19 <jacekowski> and it's still portable
May 11 10:06:53 <rmrfchik> amagad
May 11 10:07:05 <ruskie> hahahahahahahahaha *gasp* hahahahahahahaha *gasp* hahahahahahahahaha *breathe* *gasp* *breathe*
May 11 10:07:30 <jacekowski> don't hate something just because it's microsoft
May 11 10:07:59 <rmrfchik> BRAINS... I NEED BRAINS
May 11 10:08:30 <ruskie> rmrfchik, you don't for .NET most of the time
May 11 10:09:11 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: I quite like some of their mice.
May 11 10:09:22 <joga> ms had nice hardware, like joysticks
May 11 10:09:52 <dotblank> oh god not .net
May 11 10:10:07 <joga> heh this is prolly old already but anyway http://apina.biz/29334.jpg
May 11 10:10:23 <dotblank> Im liking Qt more and more everyday
May 11 10:10:28 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: microsoft keyboard is quite nice as well
May 11 10:11:12 <dotblank> you can't multitask on the ipad?
May 11 10:11:19 <joga> of course not, c'mon
May 11 10:11:24 <dotblank> Oh my god...
May 11 10:11:30 <joga> thought it was a computer? think again!
May 11 10:11:30 <ruskie> lol
May 11 10:11:31 <dotblank> LIKE WOW
May 11 10:11:32 <joga> ;)
May 11 10:11:46 <dotblank> someone should get meego on that device
May 11 10:12:05 <dotblank> that would be completely awesome
May 11 10:12:49 <ruskie> I'd more like a fully working MeeGo on the N900
May 11 10:12:58 <Stskeeps> define working
May 11 10:13:15 <SpeedEvil> I'd like a slightly working - booting from mmc one
May 11 10:13:19 <SpeedEvil> SD one
May 11 10:13:27 * SpeedEvil isn't managing.
May 11 10:13:53 <pupnik> joga: thanks ... that... ... just thanks
May 11 10:13:58 <ruskie> Stskeeps, atleast on par with the current maemo5 install
May 11 10:14:01 <dotblank> Why.. Why
May 11 10:14:03 <SpeedEvil> Ah - I should inspect the rootfs to see if it has SD modules
May 11 10:14:11 <dotblank> why would you get an IPad
May 11 10:14:30 <Stskeeps> ruskie: it took them several years to get maemo5 to the point it is now, what makes you think they'd have a shiny system in the back hand? :P
May 11 10:14:34 <dotblank> In contrast MS is alright
May 11 10:14:46 <jacekowski> dotblank: because you will probably be able to stick maemo on it
May 11 10:14:53 <jacekowski> dotblank: sometime soon in future
May 11 10:14:56 <dotblank> jacekowski, thats a good reason
May 11 10:15:15 <ruskie> SpeedEvil, I thought the extra power kernel had all that you want
May 11 10:15:16 <dotblank> jacekowski, does the pad have a mic?
May 11 10:15:21 * SpeedEvil wants to see an ipad running windows 95
May 11 10:15:25 <jacekowski> dotblank: i don't know
May 11 10:15:28 <jacekowski> dotblank: probably yes
May 11 10:15:40 <dotblank> jacekowski, because with maemo you could turn it into a phone
May 11 10:15:52 <jacekowski> quite big phone
May 11 10:15:57 <ruskie> Stskeeps, lol because there's a lot(or so I think/assume) people working on the MeeGo stuff?
May 11 10:16:05 <dotblank> conferance calling device
May 11 10:16:33 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: Are you aware of anyone booting meego/mer on SD?
May 11 10:16:46 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: yes..
May 11 10:17:09 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: Can you point me to any links - I'm coming up with the wrong search terms
May 11 10:17:23 <pupnik> a lot of us should be doing that
May 11 10:17:24 <SpeedEvil> (or it's not written down)
May 11 10:17:27 <pupnik> to help get ball rollingk
May 11 10:17:37 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: for Mer, mer-project.blogspot.com
May 11 10:17:41 <Stskeeps> for meego, wait for 1.0
May 11 10:17:51 <Stskeeps> well, or go see the documentation being made for it on the wiki
May 11 10:18:10 <jacekowski> dotblank: there was a project for linux on iphone
May 11 10:18:14 <SpeedEvil> I'm trying to work out how to boot from SD without bootloader installed.
May 11 10:18:22 <jacekowski> dotblank: and there was new version released couple weeks ago
May 11 10:18:28 <jacekowski> dotblank: with almost everything working
May 11 10:18:29 <SpeedEvil> flasher -broot=/dev/mmcblk1p1 for example
May 11 10:18:39 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: right, that should actually work
May 11 10:18:43 <wall[e]> how do i clean up /home/opt to factory default?
May 11 10:18:43 <jacekowski> hmmm
May 11 10:18:45 <jacekowski> android
May 11 10:18:47 <jacekowski> http://linuxoniphone.blogspot.com/
May 11 10:18:47 <Stskeeps> the problem is just the kernel doesn't have mmc enabled, SpeedEvil :)
May 11 10:18:53 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: Ah.
May 11 10:18:59 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: That would explain it.
May 11 10:19:19 * SpeedEvil sighs. 
May 11 10:19:31 <dotblank> I don't like android.. UI dunno why
May 11 10:19:35 <SpeedEvil> toolchain setup on slackware is annoying.
May 11 10:19:45 <ruskie> wall[e], rm -rf /home/opt/*
May 11 10:19:51 <dotblank> feels like your just making one big java app
May 11 10:19:53 <ruskie> wall[e], or apt-get remove everything you installed
May 11 10:20:18 <wall[e]> ruskie thanks, and then restore application list?
May 11 10:20:28 <jacekowski> dotblank: but that means linux can be easily ported to iphone
May 11 10:20:35 <wall[e]> apt-get remove leaves unusual folders
May 11 10:20:38 <ruskie> wall[e], that's an option yeah
May 11 10:20:45 <wall[e]> i didn't purge
May 11 10:20:52 <ruskie> wall[e], you can still purge
May 11 10:20:55 <jacekowski> wall[e]: purge
May 11 10:21:04 <ruskie> wall[e], basically factory default is an empty opt dir
May 11 10:21:18 <wall[e]> thanks
May 11 10:21:28 <dotblank> jacekowski, how does it being in java help.. its interpreted. I would rather have something like qt
May 11 10:21:55 <wall[e]> can I reset /home/user to factory default? just reflash?
May 11 10:22:25 <wall[e]> hmm no
May 11 10:22:26 <dotblank> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4070
May 11 10:22:32 <dotblank> Qt for android?
May 11 10:23:16 <ruskie> wall[e], hmm I think with both a rootfs and a emmc reflash... or you could unpack the fiasco image and manually copy stuff you want
May 11 10:23:38 <wall[e]> ruskie, what's a fiasco image?
May 11 10:23:48 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: thanks for the pointer.
May 11 10:24:29 <wall[e]> saw them all the time, no idea what it is
May 11 10:24:51 <SpeedEvil> A fiasco image is a kernel and a rootfs wrapped up in one ball
May 11 10:25:03 <jacekowski> dotblank: it's not in java
May 11 10:25:09 <jacekowski> dotblank: android is linux based
May 11 10:25:15 <jacekowski> dotblank: very heavily modified linux
May 11 10:25:22 <jacekowski> dotblank: and on top of that there is dalvik
May 11 10:25:25 <wall[e]> SpeedEvil,  in http://tablets-dev.nokia.com ?
May 11 10:25:26 <dotblank> http://gitorious.org/~taipan/qt/android-lighthouse
May 11 10:25:26 <Termana> jacekowski, wait just there
May 11 10:25:31 <omar> hey dotblank ;)
May 11 10:25:46 <wall[e]> this flickr sharing doesn't stop crashing
May 11 10:25:49 <Termana> Make sure you know what your talking about when you say very heavily modified linux
May 11 10:26:00 <wall[e]> i reflash, didn't help...
May 11 10:26:10 <SpeedEvil> wall[e]: I would try to create a new account
May 11 10:26:27 <dotblank> omar, hey
May 11 10:26:48 <jacekowski> Termana: mods that it cannot be replaced easily with vanillia kernel
May 11 10:26:48 <wall[e]> SpeedEvil, I did, and when clicking using existing account (after you've created one) it crashes the controlpanel
May 11 10:26:56 <jacekowski> Termana: ( except hardware drivers )
May 11 10:27:16 <SpeedEvil> wall[e]: Odd. I wonder what you're doing.
May 11 10:27:19 <wall[e]> more than one sharing crashes in the same fasion
May 11 10:27:27 <wall[e]> SpeedEvil, it's a known bug
May 11 10:27:44 <ruskie> wall[e], yes the emmc image there is also a fiasco image... you can unpack it using maemo-flasher onto your disk and then lo_setup the stuff and mount it somewhere
May 11 10:27:47 * SpeedEvil is currently wanting GPL sources for two of his boxes. :/
May 11 10:27:54 <dotblank> omar, http://imgur.com/19EVM.png
May 11 10:28:00 <Termana> jacekowski, For starters, the main thing, wakelocks has been actually mainlined, in the form of suspend blockers
May 11 10:28:20 <wall[e]> ruskie, thanks.
May 11 10:28:36 <Termana> jacekowski, secondly, try dropping a vanilla kernel onto any ARM smartphone. The current state isn't that great
May 11 10:28:42 <jacekowski> Termana: lot of stuff has been removed in february
May 11 10:28:48 <jacekowski> Termana: i said except drivers
May 11 10:29:03 <viliny__> bah, for a moment there i thought the FM sender somehow managed to make my lcd flimmer but turns out it was a loose vga cable :(
May 11 10:29:12 <Termana> Except drivers - thats silly. You still can't use a vanilla kernel
May 11 10:29:23 <jacekowski> drivers are easily portable
May 11 10:29:29 * timeless_mbp will have been on hold for 2 hours
May 11 10:29:44 <Termana> jacekowski, so is the Android kernel modifications
May 11 10:30:19 <timeless_mbp> NOW
May 11 10:30:27 <ruskie> timeless_mbp, having fun I see ;)
May 11 10:30:35 <timeless_mbp> i think it's time for lunch
May 11 10:30:41 <timeless_mbp> 2 hours on hold is a bit obscene
May 11 10:31:08 <wazd> OMG
May 11 10:31:08 <Termana> But where do you start saying, this is heavily modified and this isn't - you just stop at drivers? What about when OMAP wasn't supported at all in the kernel - where those extremely modified changes?
May 11 10:31:11 <wazd> Opera for maemo
May 11 10:31:16 <pupnik> the fact is, we can, and will, make that android shite run on standard linux smartphones
May 11 10:31:19 <jacekowski> wazd: old news
May 11 10:31:24 <wazd> :(
May 11 10:31:25 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, 2 hours for what?
May 11 10:31:28 <pupnik> and kick those poseurs in the nuts
May 11 10:31:32 <timeless_mbp> nokia-care-uk
May 11 10:31:34 <wazd> jacekowski: screw you :P
May 11 10:31:40 <lcuk> ouch
May 11 10:31:54 <Surfa> too bad opera for maemo is pretty bad at this point :(
May 11 10:31:54 <jacekowski> wazd: die
May 11 10:31:58 <ruskie> the problem with the android changes were that nobody bothrede to do any work to merge them into mainline and that they did things nothing else in the kernel did
May 11 10:31:59 <Stskeeps> wazd: on n8x0 too
May 11 10:32:04 <wazd> Stskeeps: yeah
May 11 10:32:13 <wazd> Stskeeps: that's kinda awesome :)
May 11 10:32:16 <Stskeeps> yeah
May 11 10:32:33 <Termana> As an aside - everyone see that Android is ahead of iPhone marketshare in the US now? Maybe not everyone likes Android, but that means Linux is in a lot of pockets
May 11 10:32:44 <Stskeeps> Termana: if android is ahead, meego has a big shot :P
May 11 10:32:46 <jacekowski> Termana: woooooooooot?
May 11 10:32:49 <timeless_mbp> Termana: not marketshare
May 11 10:32:50 <timeless_mbp> sales
May 11 10:33:18 <dotblank> ruskie, Yea google is notorious for that
May 11 10:33:18 <Termana> timeless_mbp, I thought it was marketshare :P They articles I've read weren't entirely clear on it
May 11 10:33:25 <Termana> The*
May 11 10:33:29 <pupnik> now the question is, can and will we make sure intel doesn't walled-garden meego?
May 11 10:33:33 <Termana> Still, Linux is selling more than the iPhone :P
May 11 10:33:39 <wazd> Stskeeps: microb got a competitor :)
May 11 10:33:39 <timeless_mbp> http://www.bigmouthmedia.com/live/articles/android-outsells-iphone-without-help-from-nexus-on.asp/6970/
May 11 10:33:48 <wazd> Stskeeps: doesn't support flash though :)
May 11 10:33:52 <timeless_mbp> Termana: how hard is it to get the gist from a url like that? :-(
May 11 10:33:53 <jacekowski> somebody has to port dalvik to maemo
May 11 10:33:54 <Stskeeps> wazd: meh, who uses flash..
May 11 10:33:54 <Stskeeps> :P
May 11 10:34:00 <wall[e]> will eMMC flashing remove created partitions?
May 11 10:34:01 <dotblank> how about the HTC
May 11 10:34:07 <Termana> timeless_mbp, I read engadgets article.
May 11 10:34:07 <dotblank> that seems to be doing good sales wise
May 11 10:34:08 <wazd> Stskeeps: me :D
May 11 10:34:16 <timeless_mbp> Termana: that was your first mistake ;-)
May 11 10:34:25 <Termana> lol
May 11 10:35:04 <Termana> But still like I said - I think its great some sort of Linux is reaching into peoples pockets.
May 11 10:35:39 <dotblank> I can see Meego taking the in car stuff by storm
May 11 10:35:39 <timeless_mbp> calling android linux is um...
May 11 10:35:50 <timeless_mbp> well, it isn't GNU Linux anyway
May 11 10:35:51 <iPeter-> could someone give me a howto link to backup and flash n900?
May 11 10:35:53 <ruskie> wall[e], yes
May 11 10:36:01 <wall[e]> ruskie, thanks.
May 11 10:36:02 <timeless_mbp> it's Android w/ a Linux-like Kernel
May 11 10:36:04 <ruskie> iPeter-, should be all on wiki.maemo.org
May 11 10:36:19 <ruskie> iPeter-, atleast teh flashing bit is there... the backup there is a backup tool you can use
May 11 10:36:29 <ruskie> that will save most thing onto a SD card if you have it
May 11 10:36:30 <iPeter-> Okay, ill look around. thanks.
May 11 10:36:31 <timeless_mbp> i mean, call it a win for open source, sure
May 11 10:36:34 <timeless_mbp> but linux?...
May 11 10:36:38 <iPeter-> i dont have sd card
May 11 10:36:44 <jacekowski> iPeter-: if you don't flash emmc you don't have to worry
May 11 10:36:48 <iPeter-> I want to save that backup to PC
May 11 10:36:59 <iPeter-> jacekowski: emmc?
May 11 10:37:21 <dotblank> iPeter-, the internal fs.. thats not the rootfs
May 11 10:37:39 <iPeter-> I want to clean my device fully. I think it jams sometimes
May 11 10:38:12 <ruskie> iPeter-, do you have ssh on it?
May 11 10:38:26 <ruskie> or you could use bluetooth to send the generated backup over
May 11 10:38:33 <Termana> timeless_mbp, how is it not a win for linux
May 11 10:38:36 <iPeter-> No, but i can install if needed
May 11 10:38:41 <Termana> its not a win for GNU, I agree
May 11 10:38:59 <Termana> I'm sure Stallman is rolling in his grave
May 11 10:39:05 <iPeter-> ruskie: sftp
May 11 10:39:15 <Termana> errmmm metaphorically speaking that is
May 11 10:40:13 <ruskie> iPeter-, well then you can as said sftp it over
May 11 10:40:28 <iPeter-> Im just worried only of the backup part because i need my calendar stuff and contact etc.
May 11 10:40:36 <iPeter-> ruskie: Where it will be save
May 11 10:40:37 <iPeter-> d
May 11 10:40:41 <ruskie> iPeter-, the backup app asks you what you want to backup
May 11 10:40:50 <matt___> hey guys
May 11 10:40:52 <ruskie> iPeter-, it will store that backup in MyDocs/Backup
May 11 10:41:17 <matt___> any phone engineer here ?
May 11 10:41:30 <wazd> цщц
May 11 10:41:31 <wazd> wow
May 11 10:41:36 <wazd> portrait keyboard :D
May 11 10:41:46 <iPeter-> ruskie: Okay, thanks.
May 11 10:41:46 <matt___> Some people were as far as I remember...
May 11 10:41:49 <wazd> now that's cool :)
May 11 10:41:55 <iPeter-> Ill come cry if i need help, lolz
May 11 10:42:35 <lcuk> wazd, you found vertsms?
May 11 10:42:47 <matt___> I remember there were plenty here!
May 11 10:42:53 <wazd> lcuk: no, I've installed opera 10 :)
May 11 10:42:55 <matt___> I need a BER report from one of them :)
May 11 10:43:01 <lcuk> lol
May 11 10:44:11 * dotblank just descovered you can import a project with cmakelist.txt files in qt creater
May 11 10:46:56 <mikki-kun> hm, why the heck are the passwords limited to 8 chars?
May 11 10:47:15 <mikki-kun> i mean if i change the password for root it tells me "min 5, max 8"
May 11 10:47:38 <TigerTael> I hate maximum password length of 8.
May 11 10:47:39 <TigerTael> Christ.
May 11 10:47:45 <ruskie> mikki-kun, you sure it is?
May 11 10:47:46 <mikki-kun> my usual passwords are way longer than even 15 chars
May 11 10:47:52 <ruskie> mine is 9 chars long
May 11 10:48:01 <TigerTael> mikki-kun, my old ones have been known to exceed that too.
May 11 10:48:09 <TigerTael> Infact, I had one that was 32 characters long. ;P
May 11 10:48:23 <ruskie> my low-security passes tend to be up to 10 chars
May 11 10:48:27 <ruskie> mid-security 16+
May 11 10:48:31 <ruskie> hi-security 30+
May 11 10:48:44 <jacekowski> you keep forgetting one thing
May 11 10:48:47 <TigerTael> I -hate- maximum password length enforcement.
May 11 10:48:53 <jacekowski> it's ussualy hashed to md5
May 11 10:48:59 <mikki-kun> ruskie: it just cuts the last char away
May 11 10:49:00 <TigerTael> I also hate minimum password length enforcement.
May 11 10:49:13 <Surfa> security is not about lengths of the passwords but content..
May 11 10:49:15 <jacekowski> and md5 uses 128bit for hash
May 11 10:49:20 <smhar> how do you guys sync you N900 with linux?
May 11 10:49:22 <TigerTael> Infact, I hate ANYTHING password enforcement.
May 11 10:49:28 <jacekowski> so passwords longer than 16 chars are useless
May 11 10:49:42 <jacekowski> ruskie: anything longer than 16 is as safe as 16 char
May 11 10:49:50 <ruskie> jacekowski, you seem sure about that
May 11 10:49:51 <mikki-kun> ruskie: i just tried adding my normal pw which is around 20 chars...
May 11 10:50:01 <jacekowski> ruskie: md5 is most popular hash function
May 11 10:50:12 <mikki-kun> then i just gave the first 10 chars and i got in
May 11 10:50:14 <jacekowski> ruskie: other popular sha1 uses 160 bit which is 20 char
May 11 10:50:37 <viliny__> jacekowski: anything longer than 16 is as secure as 16?
May 11 10:50:46 <ruskie> jacekowski, that's what I'm questioning not the hash ;)
May 11 10:50:47 <chem|st> ruskie: having a kombination of various chars like %mnH*67 is more secure than any dictonary based password
May 11 10:50:53 <mikki-kun> and uhm, is there a way i can change my username on the n900?
May 11 10:50:57 <viliny__> so um... a 64 password wouldn't be more secure?
May 11 10:51:07 <jacekowski> viliny__: in 99% of cases
May 11 10:51:17 <jacekowski> because of limited lenght of hash function
May 11 10:51:17 <viliny__> why, though?
May 11 10:51:25 <chem|st> viliny__: well it just scales the time to calculate
May 11 10:51:30 <jacekowski> limited password field in database
May 11 10:51:32 <dotblank> Wow.. I just built LMMS
May 11 10:51:38 <dotblank> for the n900
May 11 10:51:47 <viliny__> chem|st: aight... yes
May 11 10:51:56 <dotblank> it could use a lot of work
May 11 10:52:25 <Surfa> dotblank, what are your plans? :)
May 11 10:52:33 <chem|st> viliny__: and as jacekowski said the hash function is the key
May 11 10:52:34 <achipa> viliny__: because it is almost certain there will be a shorter password that will have the same hash
May 11 10:52:40 <dotblank> I just wanted to see if it would compile and run... and it does
May 11 10:53:16 <mikki-kun> hm, is there a way i can change my username from "user" to "mikki-kun" on the N900?
May 11 10:53:21 <viliny__> achipa: that aspects actually makes a lot of sense in my head :)
May 11 10:53:35 <smhar> is there a gui app for this yet?
May 11 10:53:58 <ruskie> mikki-kun, I think you'll break a ton of things doing it
May 11 10:54:25 <mikki-kun> mehhh, that kind of sucks...
May 11 10:55:04 <mikki-kun> hm... i could delete "user" though, and then use his UID
May 11 10:55:21 <mikki-kun> afaik the UID is the important thing, not the string in the username
May 11 10:55:24 <ruskie> would still break
May 11 10:55:33 <ruskie> actually both are important
May 11 10:55:38 <ruskie> since tools might use user not the uid
May 11 10:55:48 <mikki-kun> hm...
May 11 10:55:53 <ruskie> but you can always create an extra user with the same uid
May 11 10:55:58 <mikki-kun> ok, you got a point there
May 11 10:55:59 <ruskie> that's how I have root and toor both uid 0
May 11 10:56:12 <ruskie> the one you want to show up as the name set it before the other
May 11 10:56:23 <ruskie> and it "*should*" resolve to that
May 11 10:56:38 <smhar> or is the only way is to just 'copy' the folders to the local computer?
May 11 10:57:14 <ruskie> smhar, to do what?
May 11 10:57:32 <mikki-kun> hm, would love having not "user" but mikki-kun there on my n900... that is kind of a lil too preconfigured
May 11 10:57:58 <smhar> ruskie, to sync N900 data: contacts, sms, emails, etc with linux
May 11 10:58:07 <ruskie> smhar, theres syncevolution
May 11 10:58:08 <matt___> Is there any engineer here?
May 11 10:58:09 <ruskie> does syncml
May 11 10:58:20 <mikki-kun> i would love installing maemo from scratch on my n900 but not having it too complicated
May 11 10:58:28 <frals> matt___: i think you have to be more specific than that
May 11 10:58:30 <smhar> ruskie, I am using thunderbird
May 11 10:58:32 <ruskie> mikki-kun, well it lacks imho in a lot of areas
May 11 10:58:39 * lcuk waves @ frals 
May 11 10:58:42 <chem|st> viliny__: my hdd-crypt passwords are 14 digits but 256bit aes, will take up to 900GWatts for one year
May 11 10:58:45 <lcuk> hows the packing going
May 11 10:58:45 * frals waves @ lcuk
May 11 10:58:50 <matt___> frals: Hey again; i need to get a BER letter on headed paper
May 11 10:59:00 <ruskie> smhar, http://www.topologilinux.com/syncml/
May 11 10:59:07 <mikki-kun> ruskie: i would love installing gentoo on my n900 :D
May 11 10:59:23 <smhar> thanks ruskie
May 11 10:59:25 <ruskie> mikki-kun, I would love to have just a normal layout on there
May 11 10:59:25 <frals> lcuk: not even started! waiting to hear from HR whats suppose to happen lol
May 11 10:59:35 <ruskie> mikki-kun, as it is can't even boot with /usr NOT on /
May 11 10:59:36 <lcuk> roger
May 11 11:00:23 <matt___> So basically any1 working with mobile phones
May 11 11:00:23 <matt___> ;)
May 11 11:00:24 <mikki-kun> you mean if /usr is not mounted it can't boot?
May 11 11:00:38 <matt___> in a store or w/e
May 11 11:02:55 <ruskie> mikki-kun, yeah if you want to for example have /usr as a separate partition
May 11 11:03:28 <chem|st> smhar: sync or backup?
May 11 11:03:31 <mikki-kun> isn't that already on another partiton than the rootfs?
May 11 11:03:47 <smhar> chem|st, both
May 11 11:04:01 <Manjiri_> I am trying to install a test app on my N900 using Nokia's Qt SDK beta
May 11 11:04:19 <Manjiri_> but I am getting the following error: "Assembler messages:  Fatal error: can't create tmp/obj/debug_shared/main.o: No such file or directory "
May 11 11:05:14 <chem|st> smhar: mmh backup is easy, use backup tool on device and export contacts to folder in same namespace and rsync or copy or whatever to your backuplocation
May 11 11:06:40 <fraggeln> I wonder if any of the big backupsoftware-vendors will make a client/agent for a cellphone :)
May 11 11:06:56 <viliny__> anybody here remember the name of that linux livecd that could crack windows passwords?
May 11 11:07:44 <viliny__> ah, google was useful :)
May 11 11:08:35 <matt___> frals: Why version me?
May 11 11:08:53 <chem|st> smhar: there is no proper way for syncing yet, extracting data to somewhere else can be scripted but the formating is hell
May 11 11:09:28 <matt___> another one. uh
May 11 11:09:37 <SpeedEvil> matt___: It's international version matt___ day.
May 11 11:09:41 <matt___> SpeedEvil: Werent u working at some mobile phone place?
May 11 11:09:48 <adalal> hey, anyone here knows how to add custom monitors onto the desktop that shows information such as uptime, or current freequency?
May 11 11:09:59 <SpeedEvil> matt___: No.
May 11 11:10:07 <Treibholz> adalal: yes.
May 11 11:10:14 <SpeedEvil> adalal: See 'queen beecon'
May 11 11:10:15 <omar> adalal ya
May 11 11:10:16 <chem|st> adalal: yes
May 11 11:10:20 <adalal> thanks all
May 11 11:10:27 <SpeedEvil> adalal: Or 'command-line execution widget'
May 11 11:10:41 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: you are a show stopper...
May 11 11:10:46 <matt___> My insurer wants to take my phone for assesment for up to 2 weeks unless i provide him with a report stating that the phone is Beyond Economical Repair (Motherboard problem)
May 11 11:10:49 <adalal> lol
May 11 11:10:54 <chem|st> Treibholz: two nuts one thought
May 11 11:10:58 <omar> adlal i'll send you a screenshot of my desktop it has all that and a bit more
May 11 11:10:59 <Treibholz> :-)
May 11 11:10:59 <matt___> in which case they will just arrange an exchange.
May 11 11:11:15 <adalal> omar: sure thanks
May 11 11:11:31 <SpeedEvil> matt___: why can't you take it to a nokia care centre?
May 11 11:11:43 <SpeedEvil> matt___: What's the problem with it?
May 11 11:12:15 <matt___> SpeedEvil: Speaker going silent, screen blinking
May 11 11:12:31 <SpeedEvil> ah
May 11 11:12:32 <matt___> left right corner of the touch screen not reacting
May 11 11:12:39 <matt___> blah
May 11 11:12:40 <SpeedEvil> matt___: Where are you?
May 11 11:12:42 <matt___> top left corner*
May 11 11:12:44 <matt___> SpeedEvil: UK
May 11 11:13:07 <SpeedEvil> Where did you buy it?
May 11 11:13:20 <matt___> Nokia
May 11 11:13:34 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it - your first port of call should be nokia care centre
May 11 11:13:38 <mikki-kun> hm... how the heck do you actually add a new user on the n900?
May 11 11:13:42 <SpeedEvil> to get it repaired under warranty
May 11 11:13:44 <mikki-kun> i have even the coreutils from gnu
May 11 11:13:51 <matt___> SpeedEvil: No need, that's why I got insurance
May 11 11:14:03 <mikki-kun> and there i can't find an "useradd"
May 11 11:14:03 <Appiah> and you dont have useradd/adduser ?
May 11 11:14:08 <matt___> £13 a month, they've got no problem replacing it (my screen is also scratched as hell)
May 11 11:14:08 <SpeedEvil> matt___: Sure - then do what your insurer wants.
May 11 11:14:36 <matt___> SpeedEvil: But the guy told me the fastest way is to get an engineer to write a short BER, email it to them and ill have new phone tomorrow.
May 11 11:14:52 <matt___> Yh stupid I was honestl could've just told them i dropped it down the sink.
May 11 11:15:05 <mikki-kun> Appiah: ok, i found it, but on a rahter obscure way... it was located in /usr/sbin as i thought, but it didn't show up...
May 11 11:15:14 <Appiah> umm
May 11 11:15:42 <Appiah> thats where it should be mikki-kun
May 11 11:15:51 * SpeedEvil could write one, but is not employed in that field.
May 11 11:15:53 <Appiah> atleast thats where debian puts it
May 11 11:16:14 <matt___> SpeedEvil: Are you an educated engineer ?
May 11 11:16:31 <SpeedEvil> Yes - but not qualified in any normal route.
May 11 11:16:39 <matt___> What do you mean ?
May 11 11:16:51 <ruskie> mikki-kun, $EDITOR /etc/passwd copy paste the line you want... do changes save passwd user
May 11 11:16:54 <ruskie> ;)
May 11 11:17:24 <SpeedEvil> matt___: I have no formal electronics qualifications, and have never been employed in the area.
May 11 11:17:51 <mikki-kun> Appiah: i know... and yeah... somehow i overlooked it i think...
May 11 11:18:09 <mikki-kun> usual case of pebkac
May 11 11:18:16 <Appiah> :)
May 11 11:18:17 <dneary> X-Fade, Now would be a good time to intervene with your opinion to Jarmo
May 11 11:18:23 <dneary> Before I lose my temper :)
May 11 11:18:34 <jacekowski> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6907
May 11 11:18:35 <povbot> Bug 6907: Media Player widget suddenly starts music after Phone call ends
May 11 11:18:48 <omar> lol i had that bug happen to me once
May 11 11:18:58 <Appiah> only happend to me once
May 11 11:19:00 <jacekowski> but afaik it's not related to media player widget
May 11 11:19:01 <omar> like a split second of music and stops
May 11 11:19:49 <Manjiri_> I havent updated my device with the latest firmware. Will that cause problem when trying to install a app I am developing on the device?
May 11 11:20:03 <ManoftheSea> I got that one.
May 11 11:20:06 <Manjiri_> I am using Nokia Qt SDK beta in windows
May 11 11:20:12 <ManoftheSea> I had the media player open and stopped... got a call
May 11 11:20:26 <ManoftheSea> When it hung up, music came on.  I was like, "OMGWTFBBQ"
May 11 11:20:34 <Manjiri_> I have mad-de on the device
May 11 11:20:58 <omar> ManoftheSea, when it came on did was it just for a second or it played contiuously?
May 11 11:21:04 <omar> for me it was like a short "yelp"
May 11 11:21:07 <ManoftheSea> until I went and paused it
May 11 11:22:02 <chem|st> Manjiri_: might do as the version of Qt might differ?!
May 11 11:22:46 <Omar_> adalal http://imgur.com/oI6GD.png
May 11 11:23:19 <Manjiri_> chem|st : oh I need to chk that. But the error I see seems to be unrelated: Assembler messages:  Fatal error: can't create tmp/obj/debug_shared/main.o: No such file or directory
May 11 11:23:22 <omar> sorry for delay my bandwidth is hosed from 7 active torrents
May 11 11:23:43 <Manjiri_> chem|st: Any clue?
May 11 11:25:45 <Omar_> ubuntu just froze and started screeching at 2 second intervals
May 11 11:26:27 <adalal> Omar_: lol, pulseaudio fault?
May 11 11:27:07 <Omar_> nah hardware issue its not booting now
May 11 11:29:05 <r0gcas> hi, excuseme, i want to make one question. how is the easiest way to begin trying to devel with qt for maemo5? i have scratchbox and gtk. scratchbox is not more needed when doing with qt? i look for the simplest and easiest way to try qt for devel, minimum things...
May 11 11:30:16 <slaxium> has some tried to compile qpalringo for the n900?
May 11 11:30:24 <ruskie> r0gcas, you still need scratchbox to build usually
May 11 11:32:41 <adalal> on queen beecon, how do you remove the background image?
May 11 11:33:22 <ruskie> I thought there is some config option
May 11 11:33:35 <Omar_> there is an option near the top that says something to that effect
May 11 11:33:44 <adalal> ok
May 11 11:34:05 <adalal> oh nvm.. found it
May 11 11:36:42 <r0gcas> ruskie, so how is the process, what i must download to can preserve much of the way i develop for example a gtk_helloworld app
May 11 11:38:23 <pupnik> r0gcas: if you know some gtk would you be intderested in making gqview work better?
May 11 11:38:46 <RST38h> moo, yes?
May 11 11:38:58 <pupnik> it is usable for me already without any changes actually
May 11 11:39:35 <pupnik> RST38h: should be downloadable
May 11 11:50:14 <crashanddie> r0gcas: it's been a few days that you've tried to explain your problem, but with little success apparently. Could you -- very simply -- explain what you are doing, and where you are stuck
May 11 11:50:25 <crashanddie> the bastard left?
May 11 11:50:36 <iPeter-> ruskie: Still there?
May 11 11:51:06 <bleader> crashanddie: 13:49:32 -!- r0gcas [~5803b28e@gateway/web/freenode/x-mkyxlhciaadfnmrh] has quit []
May 11 11:51:09 <bleader> yep :)
May 11 11:51:18 <crashanddie> thanks
May 11 11:51:22 <ruskie> iPeter-, yup
May 11 11:51:25 * crashanddie doesn't see join/parts
May 11 11:51:42 <bleader> apparently, my emails aren't properly checked, is this a known issue ?
May 11 11:51:49 <iPeter-> ruskie: I use N900 backup software to back this thing up?
May 11 11:51:50 * lcuk joins crashanddie
May 11 11:52:04 <ruskie> iPeter-, to create a backup of the things it's telling it'll do
May 11 11:52:15 <bleader> I recently re-enabled autoupdate, but apparently my mailboxes aren't updated
May 11 11:52:20 <crashanddie> lcuk: that sounds wrong in so many ways... I'm still in bed
May 11 11:52:32 <ruskie> bleader, it never really worked for me
May 11 11:52:32 <lcuk> oh cripes
May 11 11:52:50 * lcuk has quit (E:NOTGETTINGINBED)
May 11 11:53:11 <bleader> ruskie: ok, well good to know at least :)
May 11 11:53:14 <ruskie> bleader, I'm still hoping for a simple report new mail app(i.e. gnubiff like) that also has imap idle support
May 11 11:54:19 <iPeter-> ruskie: im now in sftp and trying to search that backup. I logged in as root and im on /
May 11 11:54:29 <ruskie> iPeter-, /home/user/MyDocs
May 11 11:54:36 <ruskie> iPeter-, should find a backup or Backup dir there
May 11 11:54:48 <crashanddie> btw, for anyone doing web devel, there's one script you absolutely need
May 11 11:55:05 <ruskie> crashanddie, rmallflashandjsfrommywebprojects.script ?
May 11 11:55:31 <crashanddie> https://www.squarefree.com/bookmarklets/webdevel.html <-- drag the green "shell" button to your bookmark bar
May 11 11:55:45 <crashanddie> then go to any webpage, and click on the bookmark
May 11 11:55:55 <iPeter-> ruskie: Thanks, i found.
May 11 11:56:18 <crashanddie> and you have an interactive javascript shell for that page! Allowing to go through the full DOM in real-time :)
May 11 11:56:47 <omar> wow thanks for that crashanddie
May 11 11:57:17 <crashanddie> omar: there's another one that allows to modify the CSS in real time as well, so you don't need to save/refresh continuously
May 11 11:57:35 <omar> i can do that with firebug though just as easily
May 11 11:57:56 <omar> smoku!!
May 11 11:58:02 <crashanddie> oh, yeah, right
May 11 11:58:56 <omar> crashanddie, actually firebug is kind ofa nnoying if you want to add stuff.. so would prob be more useful
May 11 12:00:01 <smoku> me!!
May 11 12:01:08 <pupnik> any gles gpu updates from team zoddtd in sight smoku?
May 11 12:01:20 <omar> smoku you've prob been asked this a million times but i didn't have patience to read through the whole thread... when'll the next psx4all supporting save states come out? :D
May 11 12:01:35 <pupnik> hehe
May 11 12:03:16 <mece> hey
May 11 12:03:25 <mece> does anyone here use MaStory?
May 11 12:04:39 <smoku> pupnik, zod is not responding to me
May 11 12:04:54 <omar> how rude of him
May 11 12:05:09 <crashanddie> mece: I installed it, never used it though
May 11 12:05:34 <crashanddie> mece: well, I installed it, downloaded my blog articles, etc
May 11 12:05:35 <smoku> does anyone use dput with cauldron?
May 11 12:06:15 <smoku> i uploaded package and it looks like it is not coming out of builder
May 11 12:07:36 <smoku> omar, with current psx4all code it's very hard to switch from emulation to GUI
May 11 12:07:44 <omar> oh i see
May 11 12:08:11 <omar> i read something about you waiting for zod to make some new code
May 11 12:09:31 <lcuk> for ssh passwordless login,what are the security implications in backing up the ssh keys from other machines?  its not like im giving the password to the machines is it?
May 11 12:09:41 <smoku> yup. search youtube for 'psx4all pandora' - you will see that the current psx4all code is FAST. the old sources I'm working with is not worth putting a lot of effort
May 11 12:09:46 <lcuk> ie if i make a .deb package that backs them up
May 11 12:10:19 <iPeter-> Hey, what is this.. why i have to be in SSH to get SFTP connection? If i close SSH connection SFTP drops off too.
May 11 12:10:25 <dneary> X-Fade, Ping?
May 11 12:10:44 <omar> smoku, yeah i'm able to emulate final fantasy tactics and with 1/2 frame skip it runs beautifully.. only problem i saw was a slight graphical glitch with the dialogue boxes but it ran the game marvelously
May 11 12:10:56 <smoku> lcuk, what do you mean by "backing up the ssh keys from other machines"?
May 11 12:10:58 <lcuk> omar, cool beans
May 11 12:11:17 <lcuk> smoku, on my 900 i have at different times configured passwordless login
May 11 12:11:23 <lcuk> but everytime i reflash i lose those
May 11 12:11:29 <lcuk> so have to reconfigure it
May 11 12:12:09 <lcuk> i would like to backup the files that ive manually copied on from my desktop and laptop and scratchbox accounts
May 11 12:12:33 <lcuk> so that after a reflash i can carry on happily passwordless login without having to muck around
May 11 12:12:52 <smoku> you may add /root/.ssh directory to backup
May 11 12:13:23 <lcuk> or is it reasonable to patch openssh package to add this
May 11 12:13:31 <lcuk> rather than making a new package
May 11 12:13:52 <lcuk> or does that cause security complications (by backing up the whole folder
May 11 12:14:07 <lcuk> morning Noma
May 11 12:14:11 <lcuk> noobmonk3y too
May 11 12:14:13 <lcuk> sorry Noma
May 11 12:14:14 <noobmonk3y> lols!
May 11 12:14:14 <sECuRE> well, of course that has security implications
May 11 12:14:15 <noobmonk3y> morning :D
May 11 12:14:20 <Noma> good afternoon lcuk :D
May 11 12:14:23 <noobmonk3y> morning to Noma too :D
May 11 12:14:29 <lcuk> sECuRE, hence my question, passwordless login is different
May 11 12:14:29 <sECuRE> best way is to just use a passphrase for your keyfiles
May 11 12:14:53 <lcuk> im not on about my keyfiles tho am i?
May 11 12:14:58 <smoku> lcuk, store your private keys in /home/user/.ssh and you'll be fine. :)  you shouldn't use root account to do any actuall work anyway
May 11 12:15:03 * lcuk gets confused by all this OTT security
May 11 12:15:16 <crashanddie> lcuk: need help?
May 11 12:15:39 <lcuk> dunno crashanddie im just finishing reflashing and all my ssh accounts need passwords again
May 11 12:15:40 <lcuk> ..
May 11 12:15:51 <smoku> and you should have private keys protected by password anyway, so it's safe to back them up too
May 11 12:15:54 <lcuk> so i cant run scripts to copy/move stuff
May 11 12:16:27 <adalal> another question, is there a dc++ client for maemo :P?
May 11 12:16:33 <lcuk> smoku, this sint the same thing
May 11 12:16:53 <lcuk> adalal, ive not heard of one yet - we have torrent support tho, so its capable
May 11 12:16:56 <lcuk> i would like DC
May 11 12:17:06 <lcuk> its a great protocol
May 11 12:17:06 <adalal> hm
May 11 12:17:10 <crashanddie> lcuk: all your ssh accounts?
May 11 12:17:15 <lcuk> crashanddie, no
May 11 12:17:28 <crashanddie> 14:15 < lcuk> dunno crashanddie im just finishing reflashing and all my ssh accounts need passwords again
May 11 12:17:29 <lcuk> i just have passwordless ssh login setup
May 11 12:17:50 <lcuk> after reflashing this happens:
May 11 12:17:57 <lcuk> ssh blah@n900
May 11 12:17:59 <lcuk> password:
May 11 12:18:14 <lcuk> normally i can pass a file from my laptop once and forget about passwords
May 11 12:18:44 <crashanddie> ah, yes, and?
May 11 12:18:59 <lcuk> i want to back those up
May 11 12:19:19 <lcuk> ie modify openssh package - but i dont know what kind of security issue that would be
May 11 12:19:39 <crashanddie> erhm, you don't need to modify the openssh package
May 11 12:19:46 <crashanddie> you just need to backup your private keys
May 11 12:20:06 <lcuk> ok then, create a new .deb package which does this backup
May 11 12:20:13 <X-Fade> crashanddie: Public keys even
May 11 12:20:23 <lcuk> i dont want to backup private keys
May 11 12:20:31 <lcuk> thats different and insecute
May 11 12:20:33 <lcuk> insecure
May 11 12:20:37 <crashanddie> no it's not
May 11 12:20:39 <crashanddie> but anyway
May 11 12:20:44 <X-Fade> lcuk: just register them to be backupped by the tool.
May 11 12:20:59 <lcuk> yeah X-Fade but thats not persistable
May 11 12:21:08 <lcuk> without it being a package in extras
May 11 12:21:22 <lcuk> so i was wondering about it being in the openssh meta package
May 11 12:21:35 <X-Fade> lcuk: you'd need to ask Ed to add it to the package then?
May 11 12:21:44 <lcuk> indeed
May 11 12:21:59 <lcuk> but i didnt want to ask anything without knowing if it was foolish security wise
May 11 12:22:21 <X-Fade> .ssh/authorized_keys should be fine.
May 11 12:22:24 <wall[e]> ok, fixed my remote finally
May 11 12:22:39 <lcuk> X-Fade cool beans :)
May 11 12:22:47 <wall[e]> anyone know if anyone want to implement a radial dial pad?
May 11 12:22:53 <crashanddie> I'd really not recommend putting them in a .deb
May 11 12:22:56 <wall[e]> like old dial panel on ancient phone
May 11 12:22:57 <ruskie> that would be nice to play
May 11 12:23:02 <cehteh> wall[e]: iirc there is one somewhere
May 11 12:23:06 <X-Fade> crashanddie: No, he is not intending to.
May 11 12:23:15 <lcuk> crashanddie, its not putting htem in a .deb, its adding the XML file to tell backup to include it
May 11 12:23:18 <cehteh> i once seen screenshots on maemo.org
May 11 12:23:21 <wall[e]> cehteh, want one hehe
May 11 12:23:24 <wall[e]> cool
May 11 12:23:28 <lcuk> so they are included in backup/restore process
May 11 12:23:34 <crashanddie> X-Fade: he was at some point :P
May 11 12:23:48 <smoku> damn Ubuntu... dput uploaded my package to upload.ubuntu.com  :D
May 11 12:23:49 <lcuk> no crashanddie the .deb part has to be the backup config file
May 11 12:24:09 <crashanddie> aaah :)
May 11 12:24:23 <crashanddie> man, I don't get all those backup fretting
May 11 12:24:36 <lcuk> data is important
May 11 12:24:50 <X-Fade> smoku: I didn't know if I should scream or laugh when I read that bug report ;)
May 11 12:24:50 <lcuk> i dislike random scripts to be run via copy paste
May 11 12:25:01 <lcuk> because it doesnt allow reproducability
May 11 12:25:14 <wall[e]> i guess i find why flickr crash settings
May 11 12:25:19 <wall[e]> it's something to do with the network
May 11 12:25:25 <wall[e]> so i don't bother reflashing
May 11 12:26:01 <smoku> X-Fade, I noticed that in parallel. Went to invalidate my bugreport and saw the comment.  Guess I'm to tired and should go for a walk to regain some sanity...
May 11 12:28:57 <rcg-work> X-Fade: thanks for deleting that old icedtea6 version from non-free :)
May 11 12:29:20 <X-Fade> rcg-work: This caused the bug url to change all the time.
May 11 12:29:40 <rcg-work> X-Fade: ic .. so that was the problem
May 11 12:29:56 <X-Fade> rcg-work: url from free, url from non-free, url from free, etc.
May 11 12:30:27 <rcg-work> X-Fade: uhh, ic ...  my bad
May 11 12:30:45 <matthew-> What phones have oLED's now?
May 11 12:31:01 <smoku> X-Fade, where should i put my GPG key for autobuilder to get it?
May 11 12:31:24 <iPeter-> could someone give a how to link to flash n900..? Cant find from maemo wiki
May 11 12:31:26 <X-Fade> smoku: in your account at garage. Or just don't sign it.
May 11 12:31:54 <matthew-> http://www.inhabitat.com/2009/04/16/kyocera-unveils-kinetic-flexible-oled-cell-phone/
May 11 12:31:56 <rcg-work> X-Fade: i think the problems with ant and libjline are caused by something similar .. i accidently uploaded i386 versions for these which because of missing icedtea6 for i386 complain about missing dependencies
May 11 12:31:57 <smoku> X-Fade, I see a field for SSH key, but not for GPG
May 11 12:31:58 <matthew-> ;>
May 11 12:32:54 <X-Fade> rcg-work: ant seems to have an empty line in the description. This marks the end of the package part.
May 11 12:34:59 <matthew-> btw any1 seen nokia n8 yet?
May 11 12:37:28 <Surfa> i think on this channel answer is absolutely yes
May 11 12:39:09 <matthew-> i just saw it
May 11 12:39:17 <matthew-> bit let down that they make it on symbian
May 11 12:39:53 <matthew-> and makes me wonder how their proc and gpu can offer hdmi out when my n900 get clamped with simple divx
May 11 12:40:03 <matthew-> when i connect it to my tv
May 11 12:43:55 <smoku> matthew-, for TV out you need to render second display, and you may put the same both on LCD and via HDMI
May 11 12:49:31 <wazd> after reboot my n900 screwed up menu transitions, is that normal? :)
May 11 12:51:00 <Stskeeps> probably not
May 11 12:51:07 <rcg-work> X-Fade: hmm i can't find that empty line ..
May 11 12:51:07 <rcg-work> Description: Ant is a system independent build tool.
May 11 12:51:07 <rcg-work>  Ant is commonly run from the command line.
May 11 12:51:07 <rcg-work>  Ant is distributed under the terms of the Apache License Version 2.0.
May 11 12:51:07 <rcg-work> XSBC-Bugtracker:
May 11 12:51:44 <fraggeln> anyone tried to compile mysql to run on n900?
May 11 12:51:48 <fraggeln> just for fun that is.
May 11 12:52:26 <crashanddie> ~tell iPeter- about flashing
May 11 12:57:04 <ZogG> Stskeeps, your are mod on talks right?
May 11 12:57:26 <crashanddie> god save us all
May 11 12:57:40 <MohammadAG> lol
May 11 12:58:02 <crashanddie> MohammadAG_: sorry, Allah save us all :)
May 11 12:58:04 <ZogG> any mod here, i just wonder is anybody reading reports? or it's useless?
May 11 12:58:10 <ZogG> haha
May 11 12:58:19 <crashanddie> ZogG: they're reading
May 11 12:58:26 <MohammadAG_> lmfao
May 11 12:58:36 <ZogG> MohammadAG_ is a horny MohammadAG
May 11 12:58:36 * MohammadAG_ kicks crashanddie for being a racist!
May 11 12:58:42 <MohammadAG_> o.O
May 11 12:58:56 <ZogG> no more
May 11 12:59:21 <crashanddie> MohammadAG: Mohammad (or Mohammed) is the most common name on the planet, and 97% of them are muslim
May 11 12:59:27 <ZogG> circumcised now =)
May 11 12:59:41 <MohammadAG> and the other 3% are?
May 11 12:59:44 <crashanddie> MohammadAG: statistically speaking, I'm being considerate when respecting the statistically most probably religion of your name
May 11 13:00:16 <MohammadAG> I heard statistically twice in one sentence, consider me lost
May 11 13:00:23 <ZogG> MohammadAG, others are those who turned into islam and they are Alis =)
May 11 13:00:58 <crashanddie> I love that expression, "Turning to Islam"
May 11 13:01:09 <crashanddie> There's almost this racist connotation that it's "taking a wrong turn"
May 11 13:01:26 <fraggeln> crashanddie: the most common name in India is Kumar ;)
May 11 13:01:33 <fraggeln> everyone in India is named kumar :D
May 11 13:01:46 <crashanddie> fraggeln: never met a kumar actually
May 11 13:02:03 <ZogG> crashanddie but you saw the movie =)
May 11 13:02:19 <noobmonk3y> Mo mo moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
May 11 13:02:23 * frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout
May 11 13:02:28 <ZogG> crashanddie, i didn't say that. i respect any religion until person is not fanatic
May 11 13:02:29 * MohammadAG hides
May 11 13:02:34 * noobmonk3y eats frals
May 11 13:02:42 * MohammadAG locks the doors
May 11 13:02:49 <MohammadAG> and the windows
May 11 13:02:54 <crashanddie> fraggeln: though I've met quite a few zahid's, pallavi, nilesh, chandra
May 11 13:03:03 <wazd> looks like it ignores "sequenced" parameter
May 11 13:03:10 <noobmonk3y> mo can you msg me pls - web chat is smelly and doesnt love me
May 11 13:03:19 <wazd> that's strange
May 11 13:03:30 <fraggeln> noobmonk3y: a small idea, dont use the webchat :D
May 11 13:03:38 <noobmonk3y> fraggeln: at work :P
May 11 13:03:39 <MohammadAG> how helpful ^
May 11 13:03:50 <crashanddie> fraggeln: most corporate networks block irc outgoing
May 11 13:04:06 * noobmonk3y is too lazy to use his n900
May 11 13:04:09 <crashanddie> ZogG: hang on, that's the most stupid statement i've ever heard
May 11 13:04:09 <luke-jr> MohammadAG: could always change your name...
May 11 13:04:20 <luke-jr> (this is where you come back "why should I? he's the one that sucks!" :P)
May 11 13:04:23 <fraggeln> crashanddie: shellbox? :D
May 11 13:04:25 <crashanddie> ZogG: you respect any religion as long as the people who endorse it are not fanatic?
May 11 13:04:29 <fraggeln> crashanddie: there is always a way out :)
May 11 13:04:42 <ZogG> crashanddie right
May 11 13:04:55 <crashanddie> ZogG: how does the religion change based on its fanatics?
May 11 13:04:57 <MohammadAG> why should I? he's the one that sucks!
May 11 13:05:09 <ZogG> crashanddie, i just think there is one God and everyone call it different
May 11 13:05:18 <crashanddie> fraggeln: actually, my previous job blocked ssh as well, even ssh on port 443 was a no-go
May 11 13:06:03 <fraggeln> crashanddie: its all just a matter of encapsulation :D
May 11 13:06:09 <ZogG> crashanddie, as well i say - do the way you think is the right one and don't try others to go this way - that's all
May 11 13:06:21 <MohammadAG> IRC sometimes = Off Topic
May 11 13:06:27 <MohammadAG> and Off Topic = Totally unrelated but still worth discussing. An "other" of sorts. No religious or political topics please.
May 11 13:06:32 * MohammadAG hides
May 11 13:06:44 <crashanddie> MohammadAG: need I say more?
May 11 13:07:03 <MohammadAG> crashanddie, yes
May 11 13:07:05 <ZogG> crashanddie, you see - you overusing your power
May 11 13:07:08 <MohammadAG> I dare you
May 11 13:07:10 <ZogG> you are weak
May 11 13:07:14 <Stskeeps> why on earth are you showing off
May 11 13:07:20 <ZogG> we will come to you
May 11 13:07:25 <MohammadAG> no need
May 11 13:07:28 * MohammadAG gets out the Javelin
May 11 13:07:31 <MohammadAG> Australia right?
May 11 13:07:35 <Psi> anyone know what memcoder video codec i need to use so that the default n900 mediaplayer can use its hardware accel to play it
May 11 13:07:38 <crashanddie> MohammadAG: not anymore :P
May 11 13:07:43 <Psi> *mencoder
May 11 13:07:50 <crashanddie> ZogG: but why does your perception of religion change based on how the people who say they fight for it react?
May 11 13:07:52 <MohammadAG> damn cloaks
May 11 13:07:56 <MohammadAG> I want your IP!
May 11 13:08:02 <ZogG> i think people that act cool being OP have small penises =)))
May 11 13:08:04 * ZogG hides
May 11 13:08:17 <crashanddie> ZogG: if anything, zealots should make you hate zealots, not the religion they hide behind
May 11 13:08:27 <crashanddie> Stskeeps: hey, I haven't kicked anyone in weeks
May 11 13:08:36 <Stskeeps> crashanddie: i know, it's just an odd show of power
May 11 13:08:38 <crashanddie> Stskeeps: I haven't been abusive in weeks
May 11 13:08:38 <MohammadAG> ^ he wants to mind you
May 11 13:08:41 <matthew-> was there a sport/training app?
May 11 13:08:45 <matthew-> on n900?
May 11 13:08:50 <MohammadAG> eCoach
May 11 13:08:51 <ZogG> crashanddie, that's what i'm saying - if person is douche - it doesn't matter what religion he is
May 11 13:09:06 <rcg-work> matthew-: ecoach?
May 11 13:09:07 <MohammadAG> if the person is a douche, he's a crashanddie
May 11 13:09:11 <MohammadAG> :P
May 11 13:09:17 <rcg-work> hehe ;)
May 11 13:09:22 <ZogG> i'm saying if you think your religion is cool - you have to be proud of it and don't try to show off infront of others
May 11 13:09:23 * MohammadAG waits for it
May 11 13:09:31 <crashanddie> ZogG: yes, but then your initial statement was incorrect. You respect any religion, however you lose respect for people who pretend to partain to a religion if they are extremists
May 11 13:09:33 * MohammadAG waiiits for it...
May 11 13:09:47 <ZogG> crashanddie, right
May 11 13:09:59 <luke-jr> ZogG: so you hate all Catholics?
May 11 13:10:01 <ZogG> crashanddie, because they use the religion to hide behind
May 11 13:10:04 * RST38h whispers something to the giant statue of the Tentacled One
May 11 13:10:12 <rcg-work> matthew-: also exercise counter i think
May 11 13:10:15 <ZogG> luke-jr, nope =) i don't care about them
May 11 13:10:20 <MohammadAG> hmm, crashanddie and die wasn't annoyed
May 11 13:10:28 <MohammadAG> wtf
May 11 13:10:30 <MohammadAG> - and die
May 11 13:10:43 <crashanddie> MohammadAG: not by a long shot, i only get highlighted when my nickname is the first thing in the sentence
May 11 13:10:51 <luke-jr> ZogG: no? it is Catholic dogma (= everyone MUST profess, or they aren't Catholic) that all outside the Church go to Hell for eternity
May 11 13:11:03 <crashanddie> luke-jr: not quite
May 11 13:11:30 <fraggeln> anyone have trouble with enter and escape when running in a screen on a remote box?
May 11 13:11:35 * MohammadAG grumbles
May 11 13:11:48 * MohammadAG thinks of a way to provoke crashanddie 
May 11 13:11:58 <crashanddie> luke-jr: I come from a hardcore catholic family, and sunday mass was really not big on our list
May 11 13:12:00 <MohammadAG> overclo... wrong guy
May 11 13:12:05 <luke-jr> ZogG: it is also doctrinal (= everyone must accept, but not necessarily know) that false religions are not to be respected, and have no equivalence with the true religion
May 11 13:12:12 <Stskeeps> MohammadAG: now, don't be an idiot
May 11 13:12:26 * MohammadAG was an idiot?
May 11 13:12:27 <ZogG> luke-jr so they think i made sin - it's fine - they can keep thinking - but they also should look at themselves. like in their religion - when jesus walked and saw people throwing stones at prostitute, he said - the next who can throw is one who has done no sins - and they stoped
May 11 13:12:36 <ZogG> people have to judge themselves - not others
May 11 13:12:43 <bleader> fraggeln: I do, but haven't search for a fix
May 11 13:13:03 <ZogG> and if the fat asses pops uses religion to make wars and so on - they are the ones who are f***ed upo
May 11 13:13:03 <fraggeln> bleader: but you have the same "problem"?
May 11 13:13:23 <fraggeln> bleader: are you running utf-8 on your shellbox as well?
May 11 13:13:27 <luke-jr> ZogG: but also to teach all nations ;)
May 11 13:13:30 <bleader> fraggeln: yep, I can't press enter when in ssh + screen on my box
May 11 13:13:33 <bleader> fraggeln: yes too
May 11 13:13:36 <ZogG> luke-jr, teach != force
May 11 13:13:46 <fraggeln> bleader: annoying :/
May 11 13:13:54 <ZogG> luke-jr, i'll give you maemo example
May 11 13:13:59 * noobmonk3y overclockles MohammadAG 
May 11 13:14:28 <luke-jr> ZogG: if the death of one criminal spares the common good, capital punishment can be justified by the State
May 11 13:14:31 <fraggeln> bleader: maybe I should make a post on the forums and see if anyone have a fix.
May 11 13:14:38 <ZogG> luke-jr, nokia pr1.2 was leaked and nokia could invistaged and get ips of people and find all guys with new version, but they just said that it's wrong to use it - that's all
May 11 13:14:50 <wazd> ыукшщгыднб фтв тщц ьутг ырщцы ьу ецщ дфнукы фе еру ыфьу ешьу
May 11 13:14:54 <wazd> oh sht
May 11 13:15:01 <luke-jr> totally different. PR1.2 won't land anyone in Hell
May 11 13:15:02 <ZogG> wazd, привет
May 11 13:15:10 <wazd> seriously, and now menu shows me both layers at the same time :)
May 11 13:15:11 <crashanddie> luke-jr: there are a lot of inacurracies in the bible and the different religions
May 11 13:15:14 <ZogG> luke-jr, so what - same thing.
May 11 13:15:23 <luke-jr> crashanddie: Catholicism is 100% consistent and factual.
May 11 13:15:23 <wazd> ZogG: hi there :0 spotted you at the habr :)
May 11 13:15:25 <Termana> wazd, is that a warning or a threat?
May 11 13:15:43 <ZogG> wazd, now i remember who are you
May 11 13:15:44 <crashanddie> luke-jr: why do the preachers of cathol say you need to ignore other religions, when jesus was a jew?
May 11 13:15:46 <wazd> Termana: more like a spell :)
May 11 13:16:01 <ZogG> wazd, it was wierd - even someone shitted in my karma for that topic =)(
May 11 13:16:04 <crashanddie> Termana: he's reciting latin coruses backwards, imoleha...
May 11 13:16:05 <luke-jr> crashanddie: Judaism was nothing other than Catholicism before Christ
May 11 13:16:23 <wazd> ZogG: that's habr, look at my karma there :D
May 11 13:16:25 <ZogG> luke-jr, not really
May 11 13:16:31 <luke-jr> the new religion based on rejection of Christ is just another false religion leading to Hell
May 11 13:16:32 <crashanddie> luke-jr: lolwut?
May 11 13:16:43 <ZogG> luke-jr, it's hard to became jewish and they don't really want more people in there =)
May 11 13:16:49 <wazd> Termana: innocent trick with menu transitions screwed my n900 :)
May 11 13:17:02 <ZogG> luke-jr, you can relax - all of us will end up in hell
May 11 13:17:12 <ZogG> at least we have to strt to make connections there
May 11 13:17:18 <Termana> wazd, so your hoping magic spells will make it better? :P
May 11 13:17:29 <wazd> Termana: what else I can do :)
May 11 13:17:30 <crashanddie> ZogG: heh, at least we'll know people there :D
May 11 13:17:33 <luke-jr> ZogG: why would that make me relax?
May 11 13:17:45 * DocScrutinizer YAAAAWWWN
May 11 13:17:59 * MohammadAG gives DocScrutinizer his morning coffee
May 11 13:18:05 <Termana> And that wasn't an awakening yawn either
May 11 13:18:14 <ZogG> wazd, you have to push ← ← → X O UP DOWN Start and it will fix it
May 11 13:18:17 <lcuk> the only religion of consequence in this chan is Church of Emacs--Saint IGNUcius
May 11 13:18:33 * MohammadAG switches to that ^
May 11 13:18:36 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
May 11 13:18:37 <Termana> With the holy disc above his head
May 11 13:18:55 <luke-jr> sigh
May 11 13:18:57 * crashanddie counters lcuk's claim with the Holy Book of Vimicius XII
May 11 13:19:01 <wazd> ZogG: oh! it helped! :)
May 11 13:19:08 <ZogG> i knew it
May 11 13:19:11 <lcuk> oh hell no you didnt
May 11 13:19:11 <luke-jr> LOL figures
May 11 13:19:17 <luke-jr> everything turns into emacs vs vi
May 11 13:19:27 <ZogG> windows vs linux
May 11 13:19:29 <ZogG> GO!!
May 11 13:19:33 <luke-jr> ...
May 11 13:19:36 <DocScrutinizer> get SEDuced!
May 11 13:19:40 <Termana> ZogG, not funny :)
May 11 13:19:54 <ZogG> Termana, not joking, linux is much better
May 11 13:20:01 <luke-jr> ZogG: Macer isn't actively here... he's probably the only Windows advocate
May 11 13:20:10 <wazd> I am
May 11 13:20:12 <ZogG> damn =(
May 11 13:20:20 <wazd> linux sux :)
May 11 13:20:22 <ZogG> wazd, are you windows user?
May 11 13:20:23 <Termana> GTFO
May 11 13:20:32 * luke-jr gives wazd the boot
May 11 13:20:33 <Termana> errmmm... please? :P
May 11 13:20:33 <lcuk> no i appreciate the subtle windows xp window manager
May 11 13:20:34 <wazd> ZogG: yep :)
May 11 13:20:41 <crashanddie> I will VIllify emacs, I will VItrify your beliefs, I will chant inVIctus until the day has come you rightfully recognise the VIctorious VIctor.
May 11 13:20:45 * ZogG regret there is no option to punch people over interwebz
May 11 13:20:54 <chem|st> luke-jr: who is not able to boot emacs is not worthy emacs!
May 11 13:21:06 <wazd> luke-jr: give me another an I'll be packed for the summer :D
May 11 13:21:08 <ZogG> i don't have emacs or vi
May 11 13:21:10 <MohammadAG> <wazd> linux sux :)
May 11 13:21:14 * MohammadAG renames the bootloader
May 11 13:21:31 <ZogG> MohammadAG, use "ubuntsux"
May 11 13:21:42 <wazd> oh, and now I have very slow simple zoom out menu
May 11 13:21:44 <ZogG> suxuntu =)
May 11 13:21:51 <MohammadAG> iirc, the start up disk will now try to fix the registry, cause windows is confused
May 11 13:22:03 <ZogG> biconfused
May 11 13:22:16 <ZogG> any gay people here =)
May 11 13:22:19 * ZogG o.O
May 11 13:22:25 <MohammadAG> Linux, life without limits (or in this case Gates and Windows)
May 11 13:22:36 <MohammadAG> wtf
May 11 13:22:45 <ZogG> MohammadAG, if you decided to quote - use the right ones
May 11 13:22:52 <chem|st> ZogG: you mean those iPhone folks? they arent gay they are just ... mmh sexualy disorientated
May 11 13:22:56 <ZogG> " software is like sex — better when it's free"
May 11 13:23:00 <DocScrutinizer> wazd | sox --reverse-nibbles --endian little >/dev/null
May 11 13:23:04 <MohammadAG> LOL
May 11 13:23:20 <ZogG> chem|st, good one =)
May 11 13:23:28 <wazd> DocScrutinizer: oh, now you got me :D
May 11 13:23:34 <ZogG> chem|st, but i meant those who actually sleep with other guys =)
May 11 13:23:44 <ZogG> btw any girls here as well?
May 11 13:23:48 <wazd> DocScrutinizer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISrhj2br4F0
May 11 13:23:56 <chem|st> ZogG: they arent gay neither way...
May 11 13:24:18 <ZogG> chem|st, you are confusing me
May 11 13:24:19 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: sure, but they hide when you're in
May 11 13:24:31 <chem|st> ZogG: girsl.. I doubt it... or you need a hard guess *it* is female
May 11 13:24:42 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, cause they are affraid i would crash their hearts?
May 11 13:24:44 * MohammadAG points to the top
May 11 13:25:55 <crashanddie> chem|st: please don't attack people who use a different device than you do
May 11 13:26:02 <DocScrutinizer> Myrtti, emma, revKathy - tell when ZogG gets unpolite ;-D
May 11 13:26:05 <ZogG> hahaha
May 11 13:26:07 <crashanddie> chem|st: you're a mod, lead by example
May 11 13:26:36 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, nowdays you can never be sure who is hidding behind those nicknames
May 11 13:26:49 * DocScrutinizer giggles
May 11 13:26:51 <crashanddie> ZogG: you're probably a fat biggot who still lives with his parents, not many hearts are afraid of you ;)
May 11 13:26:54 <chem|st> crashanddie: well... no
May 11 13:27:21 * DocScrutinizer checks her avatar
May 11 13:27:21 <ZogG> emma, do you know how shinny and beautiful my n900? =)
May 11 13:27:39 <crashanddie> grammar fail
May 11 13:27:40 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer avatar is really a bad movie
May 11 13:27:49 <ZogG> i hope the real avatar would be awesome
May 11 13:27:58 <ZogG> ~avatar is terrible movie
May 11 13:27:59 <infobot> ...but avatar is already something else...
May 11 13:28:07 <ZogG> ~avatar
May 11 13:28:07 <infobot> i heard avatar is an incarnation of a god
May 11 13:28:10 <Termana> <crashanddie> ZogG: you're probably a fat biggot who still lives with his parents, not many hearts are afraid of you ;)
May 11 13:28:20 <Termana> crashanddie, what is it you said about leading by example?
May 11 13:28:25 <DocScrutinizer> ~ignore ZogG
May 11 13:28:32 <ZogG> Termana, let's say i'm skinny and left my parents at age 14 =)
May 11 13:28:42 <crashanddie> Termana: I'm an op, not a mod
May 11 13:28:44 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, it's unfair =(
May 11 13:29:08 <wazd> can maemo be using some other transitions.ini file somehow?
May 11 13:29:08 * ZogG has a feeling that DocScrutinizer is jealous 
May 11 13:29:14 <crashanddie> Termana: also, I'd rather tell what I feel about people to their face, rather than alienate a complete group of people for no reason, other than the fact they own a different piece of hardware
May 11 13:29:31 <chem|st> isnt anyone in the internet a fat guy eating junkfood?
May 11 13:29:47 <lcuk> except for the guy who says hes a fat guy
May 11 13:29:48 <ZogG> chem|st, i wish i would 20 more kgs
May 11 13:30:14 <Termana> crashanddie, I don't care what you are. Op or mod. You still have the same faggot type powers. The power to ban the trolls, which is the most faggoty of them all
May 11 13:30:14 <ZogG> be*
May 11 13:30:23 <chem|st> men are men, women are men, kids are men, other kids are childabuse detectives(also men)
May 11 13:30:38 <Termana> and chem|st is an FBI agent
May 11 13:30:47 <crashanddie> Termana: actually, mods have very little power to ban
May 11 13:30:48 <ZogG> Termana, wtf?
May 11 13:30:53 * DocScrutinizer notices enormous spike in OT-graph of #maemo
May 11 13:31:02 <timeless_mbp> can you guys please go to #somewhere-else ?
May 11 13:31:04 <ZogG> ~unignore ZogG
May 11 13:31:16 <Termana> Maybe I need to add an $1.99 SARCMARK to my sentence?
May 11 13:31:22 * chem|st isn't a mod
May 11 13:31:23 <DocScrutinizer> /mode +q #maemo ZogG
May 11 13:31:36 <ZogG> \=
May 11 13:31:44 <ZogG> ._.
May 11 13:31:49 <crashanddie> Termana: you may want to clarify what you were trying to say, yes
May 11 13:32:01 <crashanddie> chem|st: you're not the chemist from tmo?
May 11 13:32:44 <chem|st> crashanddie: sure I am but I want to hide myself...
May 11 13:33:10 <crashanddie> don't worry, your secret is safe with me
May 11 13:33:14 <chem|st> crashanddie: and I am able to ban all over the place, change your signature and so on... but I just dont
May 11 13:33:28 <crashanddie> chem|st: yeah, but that's because your super-mod now
May 11 13:33:48 <tybollt> SUPER!1111 mod
May 11 13:33:49 <chem|st> true but I think I just recogniyed the backend a bit late
May 11 13:34:10 <crashanddie> most mods are only able to moderate 2 or 3 forums, and only have the touch-n-ban right (only allowed to ban accounts less than a month old, and with less than x posts, typically for spammers)
May 11 13:34:51 <chem|st> and arent able to do a "kill'em all and let god sort them out"
May 11 13:35:12 * DocScrutinizer </YAAAAWWN> && <quit>
May 11 13:35:36 * ZogG is watching BBT
May 11 13:36:17 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, hows usb coming along
May 11 13:36:36 <chem|st> well back to topic! I hate those stereotype iPhone users they dont need to own one! its just the kind of people I can but dont want to deal with, it is on my choice isnt it
May 11 13:37:27 <lcuk> chem|st, what if your girlfriend got an iphone
May 11 13:37:40 <moo---> opera 10
May 11 13:37:43 <moo---> this rocks
May 11 13:37:44 <chem|st> friends have iPhones but they dont act like those pretenders/sexualy disorientated/stockholm syndrom deceased folks
May 11 13:37:46 <lcuk> ++
May 11 13:37:50 <tybollt> lcuk: I think he means the kind of people whos iphone IS their girlfriend ;)
May 11 13:37:52 <nid0> my girlfriend was vaguely tempted by an iphone last october
May 11 13:37:56 <tybollt> whose
May 11 13:37:58 <nid0> I slapped her and told her to get a real phone
May 11 13:38:14 <chem|st> nid0: good boy ;)
May 11 13:38:31 <ZogG> nid0, they are people too
May 11 13:38:37 <lcuk> nid0 :S
May 11 13:38:54 <nid0> thats quite an interesting gradient of responses between you three
May 11 13:38:59 <lcuk> and chem|st theres people with same kind of fascination for maemo devices
May 11 13:39:06 <nid0> and in descending order of appreciation of my response, too.
May 11 13:40:24 * lcuk adds legs to the bubbles
May 11 13:41:11 <chem|st> former girlfriend decided to buy a phone on her own, she decided for something realy goodlooking... but just useless if you want to do more than texting and phone calls, she recognized the first day, 2 years later she asked me to look for a set of phones goodlooking but smart too...
May 11 13:41:22 <lcuk> are math operations in python slower than using an array
May 11 13:41:30 <lcuk> (old skool sinarray)
May 11 13:42:04 <chem|st> lcuk: I think the op which is called is not the fastest
May 11 13:42:27 <lcuk> yeah ive got some heavy math currently in the bit of python ive been playing with
May 11 13:43:01 <lcuk> and i need more unfortunately
May 11 13:43:11 <chem|st> lcuk: and yes they may own a N900 and I'd like to shove it up their rectum
May 11 13:43:22 <lcuk> ?
May 11 13:43:37 <chem|st> guten abend herr reitschuster
May 11 13:43:58 <tybollt> halo herr Kemist!
May 11 13:44:25 <alterego> Liking Opera, though I much prefer MicroB's zooming
May 11 13:44:26 <chem|st> tybollt: that would be "hallo herr chemiker"
May 11 13:44:47 <tybollt> na ja herr kemist - das ist quatsch :)
May 11 13:44:50 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: assembler ;-P
May 11 13:44:59 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, it works nicely from c
May 11 13:45:14 <lcuk> i already have all the code there, just testing limits of current python and qt
May 11 13:45:23 <lcuk> wanting specific things to go faster
May 11 13:45:50 <lcuk> between pythons slow handling of simple objects iwth heavy math to qt's slow handling of qpainter.* calls
May 11 13:46:02 <lcuk> it just doesnt have the same zing as im used to
May 11 13:46:06 <chem|st> tybollt: ausserdem heiss ich nicht chemiker mit nachnamen
May 11 13:46:29 <lcuk> chem|st, english in main channel please
May 11 13:46:42 <lcuk> or as close as you are capable
May 11 13:46:46 <tybollt> Oh give us a break lcuk =)
May 11 13:46:59 <chem|st> ~slap lcuk
May 11 13:47:16 <lcuk> im not a mod or an op, its just common courtesy
May 11 13:48:09 <chem|st> lcuk: you know that it was less than 10 votes putting german away from becoming the world dominant language? better learn it!
May 11 13:48:29 <MohammadAG> die
May 11 13:48:33 <hawai`i> lmfao
May 11 13:48:37 <hawai`i> regime change!
May 11 13:48:40 <Stskeeps> for those interested, N900 hardware adaptation team for MeeGo has opened up development, http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-May/002131.html
May 11 13:48:55 <chem|st> Stskeeps: ty
May 11 13:49:01 <achipa> lcuk: heavy math ? sounds like numpy or ctypes to me
May 11 13:49:13 * MohammadAG seconds the thanks
May 11 13:49:27 <lcuk> well chem|st bis das geschieht, sollten Sie nur in diesem Channel Englisch
May 11 13:49:47 <achipa> Stskeeps for president !
May 11 13:49:57 <chem|st> lcuk: nice try
May 11 13:50:05 <achipa> is that google translate ?
May 11 13:50:17 <chem|st> sounds like
May 11 13:50:19 <lcuk> yes :$
May 11 13:50:23 <chem|st> hehe
May 11 13:50:40 <lcuk> just be sensible
May 11 13:50:53 * noobmonk3y thanks thirdly
May 11 13:51:04 <lcuk> achipa, its a small block
May 11 13:51:08 <chem|st> lcuk: but to use german words that you know and use is ok then?
May 11 13:51:11 <lcuk> box2d would be nice
May 11 13:51:16 <frals> Stskeeps: pretty annoying that linewrapping is fubar when reading the archives there :(
May 11 13:51:40 <Stskeeps> frals: yeah, i agree
May 11 13:51:45 <lcuk> achipa, try this http://liqbase.net/stuff/liqbubbles2.py
May 11 13:51:55 <lcuk> it has a calc_overlap routine
May 11 13:52:09 <lcuk> that in python really slugs up beyond about 15 bubbles
May 11 13:52:16 * noobmonk3y shoves frals up the bottom of a trout.......
May 11 13:52:24 <lcuk> its essentially the same calculation that liqflow uses
May 11 13:52:29 <lcuk> and thats native c
May 11 13:52:35 <lcuk> and works with many many more
May 11 13:52:40 <chem|st> noobmonk3y: wrong way around?
May 11 13:53:11 <noobmonk3y> lol chem|st  u sure?
May 11 13:53:40 <lcuk> achipa, i tried using all the tricks in the python speedup thread
May 11 13:53:44 <lcuk> even compiling it doesnt do much
May 11 13:53:53 <Jaffa> frals: Stskeeps: anyone raised a CSS bug against the MeeGo archives?
May 11 13:54:02 <lcuk> i ran it over shedskin and got some very clean but incomplete c++ code
May 11 13:54:10 <lcuk> (shedskin doesnt know about qt)
May 11 13:54:16 <chem|st> noobmonk3y: well I guess its worth a try!
May 11 13:54:23 <noobmonk3y> ;)
May 11 13:55:08 <Termana> Anyone know the appropriate /dev nodes to control the 3G radio?
May 11 13:55:38 <noobmonk3y> control it? :P
May 11 13:55:46 <noobmonk3y> it has a life of it's own :)
May 11 13:55:50 <Stskeeps> Termana: it's a network interface
May 11 13:56:00 <DocScrutinizer> (linewrapping) was too annoying for me. Reading the raw text now ;-)
May 11 13:56:05 <achipa> lcuk: arrays are really slow... though a little profiling would be needed to see the bottleneck
May 11 13:56:31 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: did we have the meeting today or did it get moved?
May 11 13:56:39 <lcuk> achipa, that simple little .py app
May 11 13:56:56 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: It seems we have one today, but nobody seems to be able to attend.
May 11 13:57:10 <Termana> Stskeeps, what about for the actual phone interface?
May 11 13:57:16 <lcuk> is basically the simplicity that i want to work fast - obviously with more methods from qpainter.* (text and image blitting etc)
May 11 13:57:18 <Stskeeps> Termana: same, packets over a network interface
May 11 13:57:18 <noobmonk3y> brb
May 11 13:57:23 <Stskeeps> Termana: i think.
May 11 13:57:39 <achipa> lcuk: 500 lines is HUGE in python terms ;)
May 11 13:57:40 <lcuk> so im concentrating on the aspects that ive noticed are slow
May 11 13:57:50 <lcuk> ok yeah i know
May 11 13:58:03 <hawai`i> So, who knows this character who has patched WL1251?
May 11 13:58:08 <lcuk> but i have also my sketching app
May 11 13:58:20 <lcuk> which is same basic structure
May 11 13:58:24 <lcuk> but with less math
May 11 13:58:33 <lcuk> its the calculations that are important
May 11 13:58:54 <achipa> lcuk: just saying I can't grasp the whole app with just a single glance :)
May 11 13:58:54 <lcuk> to do what i want with sketches (which i want to render in each bubble)
May 11 13:59:08 <lcuk> heh i dont expect you to!
May 11 13:59:27 <lcuk> just in geneal "python calculation is slow"
May 11 13:59:28 <achipa> f.e. os.system is a killer, but I don't know how often you call it
May 11 13:59:54 <lcuk> yeah theres cruft in there theres not part of the speed issues lol
May 11 14:00:03 <lcuk> thats just playing with knight rider keyboard
May 11 14:00:35 <achipa> lcuk: yes, calculation is slow. If you care about that, use ctypes or numpy
May 11 14:00:41 <Termana> Stskeeps, do you know what nodes are used though - eg. /dev/modem or /dev/ttyACM0 is a dialup modem interface usually
May 11 14:01:06 <achipa> lcuk: the point is python tries to keep it simple, and dynamic typing is no friend of fast math
May 11 14:01:30 <lcuk> of course
May 11 14:02:01 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: what's "N900 hardware adaptation team for MeeGo" all about? Can we stop to push bme and other crap now?
May 11 14:02:09 <achipa> but that's why you have ctypes and numpy - I'm repeating myself now :)
May 11 14:02:30 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: or join efforts with those of that team?
May 11 14:02:57 <DocScrutinizer> or join the team ? ;-D
May 11 14:03:56 <lcuk> yes achipa im wondering tho whether python interpreter itself can be optimised better - i could have just written this in c++ and not had this issue, im just feeling the boundaries
May 11 14:04:06 <Jaffa> frals: Stskeeps: Raised http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1968
May 11 14:04:06 <povbot> Bug 1968: Accept-Language based on "Regional settings" instead of "Device language"
May 11 14:04:28 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: up to you - this is targetted for meego mostly :)
May 11 14:04:48 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: maemo / meego - I don't care
May 11 14:04:52 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: it's linux
May 11 14:05:30 <lcuk> achipa, and obviously within qt itself if the qpainter stuff can be given a kick up the backside
May 11 14:05:43 <DocScrutinizer> and very probably it would be useless effort to RE a BME for maemo, if we could simply backport an open implementation from meego
May 11 14:06:04 <frals> Jaffa: :)
May 11 14:06:05 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: we have a closed BME atm, but a open one would probably be better
May 11 14:06:15 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: ack
May 11 14:06:20 <achipa> lcuk: is that the 4.5 pyqt or 4.6 ?
May 11 14:06:25 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: that's why I ask what that team is all about
May 11 14:06:30 <achipa> (qt ver, I mean0
May 11 14:06:35 <lcuk> achipa, presume its 4.5
May 11 14:06:39 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: porting meego to n900 :)
May 11 14:06:49 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: in short terms, go see wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900
May 11 14:06:50 <DocScrutinizer> yesyesyesss
May 11 14:06:58 <lcuk> tho im on 1.2 it might already be changed but i dont know
May 11 14:07:06 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: but will they e.g port BME?
May 11 14:07:12 <achipa> cause 4.6's painter is a lot quicker in many cases
May 11 14:07:13 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: it is ported
May 11 14:07:14 <DocScrutinizer> or build a new one?
May 11 14:07:21 <Jaffa> Hmm, povbot needs to be smarter at recognising maemo.org URLs
May 11 14:07:23 <DocScrutinizer> FOSS?
May 11 14:07:37 <achipa> lcuk - grep for version, if pyqt is 4.7.2 or newer, you're on qt4.6
May 11 14:07:38 <DocScrutinizer> or BLOB?
May 11 14:07:40 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: not oss - but we strive to limit the amounts of blobs
May 11 14:07:50 <Stskeeps> there's only so much that can be done in short time, so
May 11 14:07:58 <Stskeeps> open development is first step to beating the blobs:)
May 11 14:08:23 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: that's *exactly* my question. should I join that team with my ideas about BME replacement?
May 11 14:08:42 <lcuk> achipa, version of which?  command line please and ill tell you
May 11 14:08:46 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: well, you join a team by merit of contributions - so i guess it might be a way
May 11 14:09:02 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: we do say that all contributions are welcome
May 11 14:09:03 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, ok
May 11 14:09:11 <achipa> lcuk: dpkg -l | grep python2.5-qt4
May 11 14:09:16 <DocScrutinizer> the standard disclaimer
May 11 14:09:53 <lcuk> 4.7.3-maemo2
May 11 14:10:02 <lcuk> for all, common core gui
May 11 14:10:14 <DocScrutinizer> "contributions welcome, but don't expect to see any support from the team until you gained merit"
May 11 14:10:17 <dneary> Stskeeps,  Today's meeting was due to start in 50 minutes
May 11 14:10:25 <Stskeeps> dneary: oh, i thought it was now
May 11 14:10:34 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: nop, better than that
May 11 14:10:42 <chem|st> 15UTC it was hmm
May 11 14:10:51 <dneary> Stskeeps, But since Tero and Ferenc have said they won't be there, Jaffa proposed pushing it back
May 11 14:11:03 <Stskeeps> dneary: yeah, i agree
May 11 14:11:09 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: 'Anyone is welcome to contribute and non-member contributions will be treated with same process and review as member contributions. '
May 11 14:11:19 <X-Fade> dneary: It will probably be better not to have it at the end of the working day.
May 11 14:11:43 <lcuk> achipa, so im already on the latest stuff then - ill boil this down to test case size and then can profile better
May 11 14:11:56 <X-Fade> dneary: Especially in finland, people all leave before 17:00 local time.
May 11 14:12:02 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: go read the mails, we really do mean open development seriously :P
May 11 14:12:04 * DocScrutinizer sighs and mumbles "agenda"
May 11 14:12:13 <dneary> X-Fade, Still about?
May 11 14:12:22 <dotblank> Finally done with exams.. now I can fiddle with the n900
May 11 14:12:24 <dneary> (ah, guess so)
May 11 14:12:46 <dneary> X-Fade, I proposed our regular meeting time to allow as many people as possible to attend
May 11 14:12:56 <dneary> We always meet at 15h UTC, don't we?
May 11 14:13:04 <X-Fade> dneary: You forgot to compensate for DST.
May 11 14:13:05 <MohammadAG> Khertan_Home, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52378 lol
May 11 14:13:20 <dneary> X-Fade, There are a lot of US centered people for whom 3pm or 4pm Finnish time is still bedtime
May 11 14:13:32 <dneary> X-Fade, I think you'll find I didn't
May 11 14:13:32 <rmrfchik> am I late? http://labs.opera.com/news/2010/05/11/
May 11 14:13:47 <chem|st> X-Fade: 15 utc is in 45 min or do you mean to push it ahead for the finns
May 11 14:13:51 <dneary> X-Fade, 15h UTC is 17h CEST, 18h Finnish time
May 11 14:14:07 <X-Fade> dneary: 14:30 in March.
May 11 14:14:17 <X-Fade> dneary: Which was 1.5 hours earlier.
May 11 14:14:26 <dneary> X-Fade, Indeed
May 11 14:15:01 <dneary> It's unfortunate that none of the affected finns have said anything about it - it would be better to say "this time will never be good for me", rather than "I can't make it this week'
May 11 14:15:25 <Stskeeps> http://www.doodle.com/
May 11 14:15:28 <Stskeeps> -> Jaffa
May 11 14:15:51 <dneary> X-Fade, Would you mind putting your 2c into the mediawiki docs discussion on maemo-community, please?
May 11 14:16:02 <DocScrutinizer> feel happy you got no office in Taipei ;-P
May 11 14:16:15 <dneary> Stskeeps, Those things take ages, and are never very reliable
May 11 14:16:28 <Stskeeps> dneary: fair enough
May 11 14:17:10 <X-Fade> Global communities always have pain when it comes to scheduling meetings.
May 11 14:17:35 <DocScrutinizer> ack
May 11 14:17:36 <dneary> Stskeeps, What's your timezone? You're Germany, right?
May 11 14:17:44 <Stskeeps> dneary: poland
May 11 14:17:45 <Stskeeps> but same
May 11 14:17:50 <dneary> X-Fade, This is why you should almost never have any
May 11 14:18:29 <dneary> The one exception is when there is some massive change which requires some real-time chat to work out, or a long discussion where you need a decision
May 11 14:18:41 <X-Fade> dneary: I lack energy to reply to Jarmo's eternal threads.
May 11 14:19:08 <dneary> X-Fade, I would appreciate you backing me up on this one, especially since you're the sysadmin who said "I won't do it".
May 11 14:19:25 <dneary> I've invoked your name, but it would really be great to have you say something
May 11 14:20:06 <X-Fade> dneary: Yeah, charging to comment ;)
May 11 14:20:35 <X-Fade> dneary: Short is that they drop a tool and maintenance burden on use without communicating when the thing got designed.
May 11 14:20:46 <X-Fade> s/use/us/
May 11 14:20:46 <infobot> X-Fade meant: dneary: Short is that they drop a tool and maintenance burden on us without communicating when the thing got designed.
May 11 14:21:20 <dneary> X-Fade, Yeah
May 11 14:21:27 <DocScrutinizer> (no linewrap in maemo/pipermail) dunno if borrowing some CSS or whatever from e.g. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-March/013978.html would help
May 11 14:21:49 <dneary> Stskeeps, I hope you didn't mind the changes I proposed for the best practices page?
May 11 14:22:19 <lcuk> join #maemo-meeting
May 11 14:22:23 <DocScrutinizer> dneary, Stskeeps ^^^
May 11 14:22:34 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: we filed a bug for meego at least
May 11 14:22:46 <Stskeeps> dneary: i like to think of it as an evolving document, so no - i don't mind
May 11 14:22:56 <Stskeeps> dneary: ie, experiences and troubles by not working in the open
May 11 14:23:14 <dneary> Stskeeps, The "don't give new employees commit" is my absolute best tip
May 11 14:23:39 <dneary> It is the one measure which can make development work transparent and expose huge problems in patch review
May 11 14:23:48 <dneary> And it sends a great message to the community
May 11 14:24:14 <dneary> It is also uniformly the one which developers and technical managers resist fiercely
May 11 14:24:46 <Stskeeps> dneary: :nod: saw harri's mail about n900/meego?
May 11 14:24:48 <X-Fade> dneary: Hehe, I think you hit the nail on the head there.
May 11 14:25:05 <dneary> Stskeeps, Yup, saw & replied
May 11 14:25:06 <X-Fade> dneary: That won't be a popular thing though :)
May 11 14:25:24 <dneary> It is, fortunately, one that upper management tends to "get" straight away
May 11 14:25:40 <SpeedEvil> External people slow down development by objecting to perfectly reasonable code that has already passed internal review...
May 11 14:25:51 <dneary> Esp. when you say "what code review processes do you have in place during a new employee's trial period?"
May 11 14:25:55 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: exactly
May 11 14:26:01 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: same on EE side
May 11 14:26:07 <Stskeeps> dneary: well, no reply to the list at least
May 11 14:26:09 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: indeed
May 11 14:26:16 <dneary> Stskeeps, Really?
May 11 14:26:28 <Termana> Stskeeps, dneary, it is to the list
May 11 14:26:37 <timeless_mbp> the last code i reviewed had at least one error every two lines, iirc
May 11 14:27:21 <dneary> Jaffa, In response to your "anyone know of..." question on the list, Stskeeps's proposal of doodle is about the best available
May 11 14:27:25 <dneary> Personally I hate it
May 11 14:27:42 <dneary> Termana, Thanks
May 11 14:27:58 <Stskeeps> dneary: well, it's not in meego-dev archives yet
May 11 14:28:24 <dneary> Ah
May 11 14:28:28 <dneary> Sending failed.
May 11 14:28:31 <dneary> Resending
May 11 14:29:24 <Termana> Oh
May 11 14:29:33 <Termana> Don't mind me - that was from slaine
May 11 14:29:37 <Termana> Sorry :P
May 11 14:29:52 <Termana> Its midnight here :P
May 11 14:30:17 <Termana> dneary, but I just got yours anyway :P
May 11 14:30:55 <Stskeeps> dneary: hm, i guess there's a bit of confusion in harri's mail if it's about 'open source hw adaptation' or just 'opening up the team development'
May 11 14:31:27 <Stskeeps> it's the latter, but our goal is to minimize having to use closed source blobs as it doesn't look pretty
May 11 14:31:50 <DocScrutinizer> err, 'doesn't look pretty'?
May 11 14:32:14 <Stskeeps> it doesn't, it is irritating to work with and is a bit ugly :)
May 11 14:32:26 <Stskeeps> open source is easier to work with
May 11 14:32:28 <dneary> Stskeeps, It is about making the team transparent
May 11 14:32:31 <Stskeeps> yep
May 11 14:32:31 <dneary> Stskeeps, I got that
May 11 14:32:54 <dneary> But he does mention in the wiki page that development won't be completely open because of some closed components
May 11 14:33:09 <Stskeeps> yes, that's actually my wording of it
May 11 14:33:10 <dneary> That leads naturally to the question: "which ones, exactly?"
May 11 14:34:20 <Stskeeps> at this moment, bme, gles libs, bt firmware and wifi firmware (i can't recall exactly), but the situation may change
May 11 14:34:44 * lcuk has glowing eye wolf startup screen
May 11 14:35:32 <SpeedEvil> Binary components aren't _too_ bad.
May 11 14:35:38 <SpeedEvil> As long as they are well documented.
May 11 14:35:55 <Stskeeps> dneary: but yes, having a project list/documentation of what is 'off bounds' sounds like a good idea
May 11 14:36:37 <Stskeeps> if we can find a reasonable pattern on how to do it in a sane way, the pattern would probably be duplicated
May 11 14:37:01 <dneary> Stskeeps, bme = battery management, gles = 3D, bt firmware = bluetooth? wifi firmware means no wifi??? :(
May 11 14:37:48 <Stskeeps> dneary: well, closed components are the ones you can grab by putting in your IMEI on tablets-dev
May 11 14:38:08 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: And cellular? Or is there something talking SPI?
May 11 14:38:33 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: i think there's open work being done in that direction.
May 11 14:38:48 <X-Fade> Ok, even better.
May 11 14:39:48 <Stskeeps> dneary: it's like with mer's vendor repositories, prove you have a device and you get access to all the blobs you need and how you want to remix them :)
May 11 14:40:15 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: closed components are acceptable at 'boundary' only
May 11 14:40:27 <Stskeeps> agreed, dead center of architecture is not good :P
May 11 14:40:45 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: I.E. when the purpose is to interface a peripheral component to the system
May 11 14:40:59 <dneary> Jaffa, You only went to Monday?
May 11 14:41:10 <dneary> Jaffa, With 3 kids, weekends are always hard for me
May 11 14:41:12 <DocScrutinizer> e.g. for BME that's ot completely applicable
May 11 14:41:18 <DocScrutinizer> Not*
May 11 14:41:21 <dneary> Jaffa, And Thursday is a holiday here
May 11 14:41:35 <X-Fade> dneary: in most european countries
May 11 14:42:49 <dneary> Stskeeps, I've been telling the FSF guys that there is a good chance they'll have a usable smartphone with a 100% free N900 + MeeGo 1.0
May 11 14:42:58 <dneary> Stskeeps, I might be wrong... :)
May 11 14:43:09 <X-Fade> dneary: How could you say that?
May 11 14:43:17 <Stskeeps> dneary: i wouldn't bet my horses on 100%, because of imgtec
May 11 14:44:03 <dneary> imgtec?
May 11 14:44:07 <Stskeeps> PowerVR.
May 11 14:44:22 <SpeedEvil> well - isn't FB in kernel?
May 11 14:44:27 <awilkins> By "usable" you presumably mean "not quite as _useful_ as the commercial version" ?
May 11 14:44:32 <SpeedEvil> So you could have it - it just wouldn't have shiny accel
May 11 14:44:54 <awilkins> The list of things on the "please open this" page contains things I can't see being opened up
May 11 14:45:03 <tybollt> dneary: how is n900 100% free?
May 11 14:45:24 <Stskeeps> dneary: but i am hoping for a lot of nokia components to open and hw vendors turning soft.
May 11 14:45:32 <tybollt> does it not contain a SGX chip?
May 11 14:45:51 <lcuk> im hoping for open source applications
May 11 14:45:51 <Stskeeps> dneary: and 98% is a lot better than our current 43% :)
May 11 14:46:00 <lcuk> user facing components
May 11 14:46:07 <X-Fade> Jaffa: What is the reason for 5PM and not say 4PM for instance? :)
May 11 14:46:13 <SpeedEvil> awilkins: Some may be reverse engineerable even in the face of kicking and screaming.
May 11 14:46:20 <SpeedEvil> awilkins: It looks like BME may be one of those.
May 11 14:46:41 <lcuk> if these apps are meant to have different User experience front ends, then an open community frontend should also be viable
May 11 14:46:43 <dneary> tybollt, I said "an N900 with MeeGo 1.0"
May 11 14:46:44 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Or the equivalent of the times you picked .
May 11 14:46:48 <awilkins> I wanted the ringer application to be opened so I could do "ringtone per contact (per profile!!!)"
May 11 14:47:06 <dneary> awilkins, And yes, that's what I mean
May 11 14:47:14 <awilkins> Also would need ability to insert own KV pairs into the contact DB
May 11 14:47:30 <tybollt> dneary: Awesome so Meego will have a fully opensource Poulsbo driver?
May 11 14:47:33 <tybollt> that's fantastic
May 11 14:47:39 <dneary> You have to realise, these guys hacked the Android firmware to replace all proprietary components with free equivalents, or just dumped the proprietary components completely
May 11 14:47:43 <alterego> Poulsbo?
May 11 14:47:55 <dneary> tybollt, You didn't hear me say I was probably wrong?
May 11 14:48:05 <dneary> tybollt, I have no definitive information
May 11 14:48:17 <dneary> tybollt, I was (and still am) drinking the kool-aid
May 11 14:48:33 <dneary> tybollt, Also, I definitely do not expect 100% functionality
May 11 14:48:42 <tybollt> =)
May 11 14:48:53 <dneary> For example, if we have GPS, I'll be pleasantly surprised
May 11 14:49:02 <dneary> What's Poulsbo?
May 11 14:49:09 <Stskeeps> emacs interface
May 11 14:49:30 <Stskeeps> , would be good for n900 open mage
May 11 14:50:16 <dneary> Stskeeps, The FSF might be good friends to have if the aim is a minimumly usable smartphone OS for the N900.
May 11 14:50:20 <Termana> dneary, who is it that took stuff out of Android? (and what phone?)
May 11 14:50:21 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: so are there any teams inside Nokia working on opening up BME now?
May 11 14:50:32 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Just because I had 5 slots and wanted some from morning UTC to evening UTC. If you have a better time option, let me know
May 11 14:50:41 <Jaffa> X-Fade: I can add additional times
May 11 14:50:54 <X-Fade> Ah, yeah well seems friday morning is popular anyway ;)
May 11 14:51:06 <dneary> Jaffa, Are there any US participants in your list of desired participants?
May 11 14:51:12 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: Or maybe I should apply for that task @ Nokia?
May 11 14:51:39 <dneary> Termana, G1, and it was Aaron Williamson, from the SFLC, as far as I know
May 11 14:51:43 <lcuk> +1 DocScrutinizer
May 11 14:52:07 <dneary> Termana, I can put you in contact with Bradley Kuhn if you'd like
May 11 14:52:13 <Terje_> Uh, router in reboot loop and ADSL modem is delivering addresses without internet connectivity. Not going to be a good evening.
May 11 14:52:20 <dneary> He can tell you better than I what works & what doesn't
May 11 14:52:23 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: It's insane to RE, if same time Nokians are going to build an open BME from their beter knowledge of the original BME sources
May 11 14:53:07 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: I don't think open bme is high on Nokia's agenda.
May 11 14:53:17 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: and I think it really doesn't matter if that's for meego or maemo
May 11 14:53:39 <dneary> Aaron's a lawyer, of all things
May 11 14:53:53 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: For them it works and only can get worse by opening up ;)
May 11 14:53:53 <Termana> dneary, no I'm not personally interested in a COMPLETELY free phone, I am reasonable - I only asked because i hadn't heard about it, and thought I would google around to see if I could find more info about whats been done
May 11 14:54:00 <dneary> X-Fade, It's probably not even required to have an open platform
May 11 14:54:24 <dneary> Termana, You say that as if wanting a completely free phone platform were unreasonable...
May 11 14:54:24 <X-Fade> dneary: Well, if you don't want to charge your battery, sure.
May 11 14:54:47 <dneary> X-Fade, Why is open BME required to charge the battery?
May 11 14:54:49 <timeless_mbp> X-Fade: just use an external battery
May 11 14:54:51 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: AIUI it's a PITA to them, and they'd happily discard it if only they knew how much of 3rd party IP is in it
May 11 14:55:06 <Jaffa> dneary: Only council people AFAIK
May 11 14:55:11 <dneary> I mean, can't charging the battery be a 100% hardware/firmware operation?
May 11 14:55:12 <Termana> dneary, What I meant was, I am able to compromise, while others believe they shouldn't have to.
May 11 14:55:14 <X-Fade> dneary: bme manages charging.
May 11 14:55:21 <Termana> Maybe I need to pick my words more carefully :P
May 11 14:55:37 <tybollt> hmm
May 11 14:55:44 <timeless_mbp> dneary: something needs to be able to tell something in userland how much charge the battery has
May 11 14:55:44 <Terje_> dneary, it could if the hardware was designed that way. It's not.
May 11 14:55:48 <tybollt> my N900 unit is becomming extremely hot when charging
May 11 14:55:48 <X-Fade> dneary: Try early mer and see how nice it was without bme.
May 11 14:55:55 <tybollt> anyone else had that?
May 11 14:55:57 <timeless_mbp> so the system can say "oh dear, i'm out of power, better shut down"
May 11 14:56:04 <dneary> X-Fade, I had understood that it managed reporting battery state to the OS, and power management at the OS level (turning bits on & off when not required)
May 11 14:56:10 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: (manages charging) there's not so terribly much to manage
May 11 14:56:10 <dneary> I guess I understood wrong
May 11 14:56:15 <lcuk> tybollt, i once charged my device in a wooden enclosure with a book ontop
May 11 14:56:22 <lcuk> and could barely pick it up afterwards
May 11 14:56:34 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: No, but without it it doesn't charge, so ;)
May 11 14:56:40 <lcuk> it was my 810 but fun all the same
May 11 14:56:45 <DocScrutinizer> dneary: charging basically IS a 100% hw duty
May 11 14:56:54 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: no
May 11 14:57:00 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: not correct
May 11 14:57:01 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I didn't hear any sirens today
May 11 14:57:03 <timeless_mbp> hardware is 100% stupid
May 11 14:57:15 <timeless_mbp> you have to tell the hardware what to do, and when to stop
May 11 14:57:16 <dneary> DocScrutinizer: And yet X-Fade says we need BME software to enable it
May 11 14:57:17 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: Even though all it does is flip a bit.
May 11 14:57:18 <timeless_mbp> if you don't...
May 11 14:57:36 <awilkins> You need the charger to have some logic for Li-ion batteries
May 11 14:57:38 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: just has to flip that bit because it did before
May 11 14:58:04 <DocScrutinizer> the charger chip will start to charge without *any* SW inetraction/support
May 11 14:58:14 <DocScrutinizer> (charge from dead bat)
May 11 14:58:38 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: Only if it gets enabled, right?
May 11 14:58:47 <DocScrutinizer> admittedly you need a 2liner script thingie to keep it charging >32minutes
May 11 14:58:47 <tybollt> btw
May 11 14:58:58 <tybollt> which of the fennecs do you folks regard as the better one
May 11 14:59:02 <tybollt> the 1.0 or the 1.1 beta
May 11 14:59:03 <tybollt> ?
May 11 14:59:20 <timeless_mbp> 2.0!
May 11 14:59:23 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: no. It starts charging as soon as USB power is applied - on a shutdown system
May 11 14:59:54 <tybollt> timeless_mbp: :-/
May 11 15:00:04 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: the chip is designed to work autonomously
May 11 15:00:32 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: last i checked, it started to turn on as soon as power was applied
May 11 15:00:35 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: but you can improve its performance by sending a few commands to it
May 11 15:00:36 <timeless_mbp> which is not the same as charging
May 11 15:00:55 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp: doesn't relate
May 11 15:02:08 <X-Fade> I guess that can be tested by flashing a non-booting kernel and see if an empty battery gets charged.
May 11 15:02:16 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 11 15:02:34 <DocScrutinizer> will charge with 100mA *at least* - probably 500mA
May 11 15:02:52 <DocScrutinizer> if charger detection in 1707 works the way it's supposed to
May 11 15:03:04 <DocScrutinizer> (the 500)
May 11 15:03:39 <DocScrutinizer> bq24150 wakes up to 100mA charge mode as soon as VBUS is applied
May 11 15:04:22 <DocScrutinizer> on CHRG_DET->OTG *hardware* signal it switches to 500mA
May 11 15:04:27 <iPeter-> Hey help
May 11 15:04:29 <tybollt> If the next device in N9xx series has got PSU-mode I'll buy it
May 11 15:04:42 <DocScrutinizer> PSU mode?
May 11 15:05:11 <matthew-> hmmm whats with the 1.2 update from china?
May 11 15:05:14 <Terje_> Power Supply Unit
May 11 15:05:23 <tybollt> yes to run off of just the charging unit
May 11 15:05:25 <iPeter-> Im flashing my N900, and i ran that flasher-3.5 command, then it did print text and last it gave: Suitable USB device not found, waiting.
May 11 15:05:32 <DocScrutinizer> tybollt: aaah
May 11 15:05:36 <DocScrutinizer> won't hapen
May 11 15:05:37 <iPeter-> Is it doing something or not?
May 11 15:05:53 <DocScrutinizer> no
May 11 15:05:56 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: then it is not a tablet device over a phone (IMHO) and can never be.
May 11 15:06:16 <ruskie> iPeter-, it's not doing anything
May 11 15:06:21 <ruskie> iPeter-, unplug it and replug
May 11 15:06:31 <DocScrutinizer> tybollt: GSM transmitter needs a big buffer for power supply spikes
May 11 15:06:32 <ruskie> iPeter-, if that doesn't work unplug it... hold the u key pressed and replug it in
May 11 15:06:47 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: so?
May 11 15:06:53 <DocScrutinizer> that's why you always need battery (or a 10.000uF capacitor)
May 11 15:07:05 <tybollt> ok :S
May 11 15:07:32 <SpeedEvil> well - it may be possible with cellmo off
May 11 15:07:37 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 11 15:07:44 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, hostmode
May 11 15:07:51 <DocScrutinizer> hostmode
May 11 15:07:52 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: so w/ laptops how is it solved?
May 11 15:08:00 <lcuk> with a hub and correct software support - printing from n900 o_O ?
May 11 15:08:11 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: just bigger caps?
May 11 15:08:15 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 11 15:08:48 <tybollt> sigh... silly engineers, can't they just make them MOAR TINY! :)
May 11 15:09:13 <ohwhyme> Anyone know why I'm getting a unable to install extra plugins for conversations?
May 11 15:09:33 <ohwhyme> Think it has something to do with libtelepathy?
May 11 15:09:38 <DocScrutinizer> and usually 3G-USB sticks aren't supposed to work reliably from one single USB port - they mostly come with a nasty Y-cable to use 2 posts for power supply
May 11 15:09:43 <Gizmokid2005> I've found a thread on this, and it didn't seem to help. I'm trying to use the GUI installer for the Maemo SDK to install in Ubuntu 10.04 (fresh install). I wind up getting this error: http://gizmokid2005.pastebin.com/j0FwKnf8 and the thread I found doesn't help.
May 11 15:09:56 <SpeedEvil> tybollt: They are working very hard on using smaller engineers.
May 11 15:09:57 <Gizmokid2005> I even followed the SDK install instructions to do it via CLI, but then Xephyr doesn't work...
May 11 15:10:08 <SpeedEvil> tybollt: chinese ones are lots cheaper.
May 11 15:10:21 <tybollt> SpeedEvil: that's why they all outsource to Asia, yeah?
May 11 15:10:22 <tybollt> ;:D
May 11 15:10:35 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: maybe Nokia would like to hire me to kill BME once and for all?
May 11 15:10:50 <ZogG> who is BME or what is it?
May 11 15:11:01 <tybollt> Whom can get Ari on to IRC?
May 11 15:11:01 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: no idea, i'm not in HR or even in nokia
May 11 15:11:03 <SpeedEvil> ~BME
May 11 15:11:09 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: ...instead of paying a 98th contractor to create another closed version of bme
May 11 15:11:25 <ZogG> ~google BME
May 11 15:12:04 <SpeedEvil> bmezine.com
May 11 15:12:06 <SpeedEvil> not that
May 11 15:12:12 <ruskie> ZogG, battery manager iirc
May 11 15:12:32 <ZogG> ruskie, thanx =)
May 11 15:12:42 * ZogG thinks that ruskie is working for google
May 11 15:12:54 <ruskie> nope
May 11 15:12:57 <ruskie> I dispise google
May 11 15:12:59 <iPeter-> ruskie: Okay, ill try
May 11 15:13:09 <ZogG> ruskie, why would you?
May 11 15:13:09 <ruskie> hmm is it just me or does the n900 not have a lot of sound events?
May 11 15:13:23 <ruskie> ZogG, google-watch.org and then some
May 11 15:15:10 <iPeter-> ruskie: This cant find my N900. Windows says its on update mode but this flasher says "Suitable USB device not found, waiting."
May 11 15:16:00 <ZogG> ruskie meh, i don't like their policy, but search engineer is good and gmail is good - i don't care they to watch thru it
May 11 15:16:09 <andre__> iPeter-, which Windows version? 32bit or 64bit?
May 11 15:16:11 * tybollt reckon iPeter- isa happy owner of an iBrick!
May 11 15:16:17 <ZogG> don't keep that confidential info over internetz
May 11 15:16:52 <iPeter-> andre__: 64bit windows 7
May 11 15:16:59 <ZogG> iPeter-, you have to push some button while turning it on if i remember right
May 11 15:17:18 <ZogG> iPeter-, intall linux.
May 11 15:17:18 <andre__> iPeter-, see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6307#c4
May 11 15:17:19 <povbot> Bug 6307: Flashing device on Windows 7 64-bit bricked device (Windows tries to install drivers)
May 11 15:17:20 <iPeter-> ZogG: Yeah, U button, its in updatemode but this flasher says that..
May 11 15:17:21 <ruskie> ZogG, u but iirc there is some issues with win7
May 11 15:17:26 <ZogG> LFS is the best shot to try
May 11 15:17:38 <ruskie> ZogG, I prefered scroogle but google changed something
May 11 15:18:24 <ZogG> ruskie, i say everyone is trying to use everyone, just not everbody succeed
May 11 15:18:40 <ZogG> i even use chromium
May 11 15:20:57 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME
May 11 15:21:13 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer already got it - but thanx
May 11 15:23:42 <MohammadAG> ~BME
May 11 15:23:58 <MohammadAG> infobot, BME is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME
May 11 15:23:58 <infobot> okay, MohammadAG
May 11 15:24:34 <ZogG> slowpoke
May 11 15:24:42 <ZogG> bot is ignoring me =(
May 11 15:24:47 <ZogG> ~infobot
May 11 15:24:48 <infobot> rumour has it, infobot is the most helpful and smartest of all the bots
May 11 15:24:52 <ZogG> \o/
May 11 15:24:57 <ZogG> not anymore
May 11 15:25:44 <DocScrutinizer> ~monitor --strict 15 ZogG
May 11 15:26:39 <tybollt> ~ignore tybollt
May 11 15:28:24 <Stskeeps> morning andrewfblack
May 11 15:28:56 <crashanddie> ZogG: please stop torlling
May 11 15:29:14 <crashanddie> s/tor/tro/
May 11 15:29:14 <infobot> crashanddie meant: ZogG: please stop trolling
May 11 15:29:37 <andrewfblack> Stskeeps: morning, hows everything going
May 11 15:30:06 <Stskeeps> good good
May 11 15:32:17 <Stskeeps> andrewfblack: happy because the meego for n900 team i'm working in is now officially working in the open
May 11 15:32:17 <DocScrutinizer> iPeter-: windoze flasher is flaky - make sure you use correct version of windows, admin mode, and dunno what else - or better just boot a linux from a live-CD
May 11 15:33:05 <tybollt> Stskeeps: BEfore you ... were all working out of the basement? :)
May 11 15:33:27 <ZogG> crashanddie did i?
May 11 15:33:39 <Stskeeps> tybollt: close enough
May 11 15:34:00 <ohwhyme> does that mean meego will be available to the n900?
May 11 15:34:05 <tybollt> Stskeeps: Out of interest - who is your employer? Nok or Int?
May 11 15:34:07 <frals> haha
May 11 15:34:22 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: cool
May 11 15:34:27 <ZogG> ohwhyme, it will be in one way or other - the question if it would be fully functional meego
May 11 15:34:30 <timeless_mbp> so when can i run meego 2.0 on my n900?
May 11 15:34:37 <crashanddie> tybollt: he's a contractor, maemo community is one, could be intel and nokia too
May 11 15:34:53 <ohwhyme> nice
May 11 15:34:54 <Stskeeps> tybollt: neither, i have my own company and contracting through another company for nokia
May 11 15:35:01 <tybollt> crashanddie: surely I'm allowed to ask... (noone HAS to answer to anything :)
May 11 15:35:16 <tybollt> Stskeeps: Cool
May 11 15:35:20 <andrewfblack> Stskeeps: thats cool
May 11 15:35:35 <Stskeeps> in practice it means a distmaster role in maemo.org and meego arm work
May 11 15:35:43 <ZogG> Stskeeps, can we ask little bit more?
May 11 15:35:45 <andrewfblack> Stskeeps: now Meego for N810 :)
May 11 15:35:53 <Stskeeps> andrewfblack: yes, i also do that
May 11 15:35:54 <Stskeeps> :P
May 11 15:36:02 <Stskeeps> ZogG: if i'm allowed to not answer.
May 11 15:36:03 <ZogG> Stskeeps, and for 3310?
May 11 15:36:17 <ZogG> Stskeeps, are you working on hardware only or UI also?
May 11 15:36:18 <Stskeeps> well, at least you didn't say the 770
May 11 15:36:34 <iPeter-> Damn
May 11 15:36:35 <Stskeeps> ZogG: i don't work regarding ui, i'm more of a porter and system guy
May 11 15:36:36 <andrewfblack> Stskeeps: We are getting it on the 770 also sweet
May 11 15:36:46 <Termana> :P
May 11 15:36:49 <Stskeeps> andrewfblack: who's porting it to 770?
May 11 15:36:58 <andrewfblack> Stskeeps: you right you said 770 lol
May 11 15:36:59 <Stskeeps> (it -could- technically work on 770.)
May 11 15:37:01 <tybollt> nice
May 11 15:37:01 <Termana> Stskeeps, I think he was making a joke
May 11 15:37:09 <adalal> hey, wht file to you cat to find out the current cpu freq
May 11 15:37:10 * frals waits for tmo to be filled with "nokia subcontractor confirming meego will work on all previous tablets"
May 11 15:37:12 <ZogG> Stskeeps, i mean not specificly you but at all - or it's developed in other companies or even you don't know
May 11 15:37:27 <ZogG> interested if it's same team or it's not connected at all
May 11 15:37:29 <Termana> frals, I'll start the topic, you grab the popcorn - GO
May 11 15:37:30 <tybollt> "Sorry folks - can't have MeeGO on N900 yet for another half a year - we need to finnish off the support for 770 and 810 first" ;-P
May 11 15:37:32 <jacekowski> frals: he's not nokia subcontractor
May 11 15:37:39 <jacekowski> frals: he's sub sub contracor
May 11 15:37:47 <Stskeeps> ZogG: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900
May 11 15:38:06 <Stskeeps> that's the -hardware adaptation- part
May 11 15:38:13 <andrewfblack> Stskeeps: can you beleive it was easier to get my N900 from qgil them to give it to someone else
May 11 15:38:35 <ZogG> Stskeeps, Carsten, nice to meet you, i'm Misha =)
May 11 15:38:37 <Stskeeps> andrewfblack: contracts are a bitch
May 11 15:38:42 <Stskeeps> ZogG: wello
May 11 15:39:05 <iPeter-> Fu, i cant get this flasher to regonize my N900
May 11 15:39:20 <ZogG> you have fake n900 so
May 11 15:39:30 <Termana> iPeter-, tell him to cover up
May 11 15:39:34 <andrewfblack> Stskeeps: well I can't even get qgil to reply to me about it lol.  Guess I'm stuck with it.  Who knows maybe I will get interested in it again
May 11 15:40:08 <iPeter-> lol
May 11 15:40:25 <ZogG> andrewfblack, he can't
May 11 15:40:31 <ohwhyme> flash isnt coming on the n900 is it :p
May 11 15:40:34 <tybollt> sigh... Tories won :-/
May 11 15:40:42 <ZogG> cause he can't provide you with unofficial info as i understand
May 11 15:40:55 <ZogG> it was enuf that people start rumors fom his posts on talks
May 11 15:41:08 <tybollt> 'enuf'?
May 11 15:41:14 <ZogG> ohwhyme, what you mean flash? it is there
May 11 15:41:24 <ohwhyme> i mean 10.1 :p
May 11 15:41:31 <ohwhyme> can't watch porn on my n900 nooo
May 11 15:41:33 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps:
May 11 15:41:35 <timeless_mbp> > Team synchronisation meetings are held in #meego-meeting on irc.freenode.net every X at HH:MM UTC (TBA). View previous meeting minutes here and the next meeting agenda here. Proposals for the agenda can be added to the backlog.
May 11 15:41:38 <ZogG> ohwhyme only adobe knows
May 11 15:41:40 <timeless_mbp> that line needs work :)
May 11 15:41:41 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: yes, TBA
May 11 15:41:52 <Stskeeps> it also says (under construction) in the top :)
May 11 15:41:53 <nid0> odd, porn works fine on my n900
May 11 15:42:02 <tybollt> nid0: it does!
May 11 15:42:05 <ohwhyme> where? lol
May 11 15:42:06 <tybollt> nid0: horray for N900!
May 11 15:42:13 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: but it doesn't have a picture, so i ignored that line ;-)
May 11 15:42:21 <ZogG> ohwhyme, you can sell it and buy hookers
May 11 15:42:29 <tybollt> ~pr0n
May 11 15:42:39 <ohwhyme> but i would end up talking to her all night
May 11 15:42:53 <ZogG> ohwhyme, do you play WoW? =)
May 11 15:42:54 <nid0> anywhere, I cant really see the reason for all the faff about flash 10.1, I find it quite hard to find streaming flash that *doesnt* play fine on my device as it is
May 11 15:43:01 <Termana> Looks like tmo has just invaded the channel
May 11 15:43:02 <ohwhyme> lol no
May 11 15:43:20 <ZogG> ~tmo
May 11 15:44:04 <Termana> ZogG, stop abusing the bot - everyone else, go back to your porn topics on tmo, at least give us some sanity here
May 11 15:44:34 <ZogG> Termana, but bot is only one person willing to talk to me
May 11 15:44:44 <Termana> AND WITH GOOD REASON
May 11 15:44:57 <ohwhyme> lol he's my only friend too
May 11 15:45:44 <crashanddie> ~rape ZogG
May 11 15:45:49 * Termana hands ohwhyme an award, it says:
May 11 15:45:55 <Termana> CONGRATULATIONS,
May 11 15:46:12 <Termana> THIS CERTIFICATE IS PRESENTED TO YOU IN HONOUR OF YOUR SMARTARSE PARROTING
May 11 15:47:02 <RST38h> AMEN
May 11 15:52:28 * RST38h idly wonders on the choice of evil plans to commence
May 11 15:52:37 <Stskeeps> port meego to a gameboy
May 11 15:52:54 <crashanddie> why "a"
May 11 15:52:57 <RST38h> Stskeeps: google "uzix"
May 11 15:53:00 <DocScrutinizer> port tmo to a gameboy
May 11 15:53:37 <RST38h> ported already
May 11 15:53:55 <RST38h> it is called Whack-A-Mole, part of the Konami Game&Watch Classics collection
May 11 15:53:55 <DocScrutinizer> then dump gameboy with tmo 11.000m deep to the ground of the sea
May 11 15:54:02 <ohwhyme> anyone know why i cant install the extra plugins for conversations? Tried both extras and extras devel. Gives me /var/lib/dpkg/info/account-plugin-salut.postinst: line 6: /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon: not found
May 11 15:54:23 * RST38h decides in favor of haunting another hapless t.m.o whiner
May 11 15:55:00 <RST38h> the one I haunted over the long weekend was kinda entertaining, started cursing right from th first reply
May 11 15:55:04 <DocScrutinizer> AVAHI!!! grrrr
May 11 15:55:38 <ohwhyme> wooot lol
May 11 15:58:01 <iPeter-> hey how do i start maemo flasher inside of ubuntu
May 11 15:58:32 <MiXu-> sudo ./flasher -f -F imagename.bin
May 11 15:58:40 <Rinsmaster> My mobile internet provider requires me to use their proxy server, without it, internet won't work. The thing is, on the N900 I can only set proxies for a few services/ports, like HTTP and FTP. Now I'd like to use stuff like msn and IRC, but since they use different ports they won't work (connections time out). Is there any solution for this?
May 11 15:58:50 <MiXu-> iPeter: But I strongly suggest you read the flashing instructions in maemo.org
May 11 16:00:10 <crashanddie> ~tell iPeter- about flashing
May 11 16:00:18 <crashanddie> iPeter-: second time I've sent you that link
May 11 16:01:16 <iPeter-> Oh didnt see infobot
May 11 16:01:17 <iPeter-> sry
May 11 16:01:38 <crashanddie> Rinsmaster: yeah, it's a known problem that there is no system-wide proxy setting
May 11 16:02:07 <crashanddie> Rinsmaster: this being said, IRC over HTTP doesn't work anyway, and neither does MSN
May 11 16:02:23 <cato`> cool that Opera made theire Opera Mobile 10 available for Maemo
May 11 16:02:45 <Kegetys> could be a socks proxy
May 11 16:03:41 <MiXu-> cato`: They did? Where can you get it?
May 11 16:03:46 <Khertan_n900> Hi !
May 11 16:04:15 <cato`> MiXu-: http://labs.opera.com/news/2010/05/11/
May 11 16:04:22 <crashanddie> http://labs.opera.com/news/2010/05/11/
May 11 16:04:28 <Khertan_n900> i finnally got VectorMine in extras ... not really fair play .. but now it s in extras :)
May 11 16:04:55 <MiXu-> cato`: Oh, nice.
May 11 16:05:36 <crashanddie> There is no power management support. In practice this means that if you open a page with animations and leave Opera running, you will soon be using a payphone. Power is drained even when Opera is running in the background and/or the screen is turned off
May 11 16:05:42 <crashanddie> lol at payphone reference
May 11 16:06:02 <cato`> :D
May 11 16:06:25 <MiXu-> Let's hope there's gonna be an official version.
May 11 16:06:31 <MiXu-> I'm not gonna bother with a preview.
May 11 16:06:34 <Khertan_n900> so same as microb here :)
May 11 16:06:36 <RST38h> power management is really easy to add though
May 11 16:06:42 * Khertan_n900 hope timeless didn t read me :)
May 11 16:07:03 <RST38h> catch the standby signals, stop all timers and wait
May 11 16:07:14 <crashanddie> Khertan_n900: microb implements power management
May 11 16:07:27 <crashanddie> Khertan_n900: javascript counters are stopped and stuff when the screen goes off
May 11 16:07:51 <Khertan_n900> crashanddie : of course ! i was joking !
May 11 16:08:10 <timeless_mbp> ...
May 11 16:11:27 <Khertan_n900> there is just a bug with playing music while viewing some flash content with audio that can let pulse audio or something else between flsh player and pulse audio leaking cpu cycle
May 11 16:11:31 <Khertan_n900> and so drain battery
May 11 16:11:40 <Khertan_n900> but it s not a microb bug
May 11 16:12:10 <Khertan_n900> and seems fixed in pr1.2 from what i read in b.m.o
May 11 16:15:42 <crashanddie> so now there's going to be "Fixed in 1.2" T-shirts?
May 11 16:16:03 <MiXu-> lol
May 11 16:16:45 <cato`> I like the Opera alpha
May 11 16:17:03 <Khertan_n900> it s an idea ... but i doubt there will be an other maemo summit
May 11 16:17:30 <Khertan_n900> and i m not sure all meego the community will undertood such tshirt
May 11 16:21:12 <RST38h> "FIXED..." -- "NEVER!" (on the back)
May 11 16:22:49 <Khertan_n900> someone know how to unactivate auto capitalization on QTextEdit (in pyqt) ?
May 11 16:23:28 <RST38h> there is a global system setting no?
May 11 16:23:48 <Khertan_n900> ~ping
May 11 16:23:48 <infobot> ~pong
May 11 16:26:14 <RST38h> Need to get 111MB of archives.
May 11 16:26:14 <RST38h> After this operation, 203MB of additional disk space will be used.
May 11 16:26:15 <RST38h> E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.
May 11 16:26:21 <RST38h> Eeeek
May 11 16:26:25 <RST38h> hello kontori
May 11 16:30:13 <DocScrutinizer51> konttori: hi! You managed to find any way to make modem Engineering Mode available? (like for reading out BTS details, list of neighbour cells etc) - you remember onen_openbmap asking for that some weeks ago here
May 11 16:30:15 <RST38h> this widelands thing has got insane dependencies
May 11 16:30:43 <konttori>  Yes, I remember that.
May 11 16:31:01 <smoku> MiXu-, don't count on official opera mobile for maemo. this is a hobby project of few of our programmers done in a spare time.
May 11 16:31:20 <konttori> I did get a quote from the cellmo team about it as well. They were suggesting extending one library for this reason, but my memory fails to remember what it was
May 11 16:31:27 <MiXu-> smoku: Yeah, I noticed. I was just saying I'm hoping to see an official version as well. :)
May 11 16:32:15 <RST38h> Unofficial is fine as long as it works
May 11 16:32:40 <smoku> MiXu-, well... programmers find it fun to work on these, but QA guys are not willing to spend free time on testing, so hope is all you're left with :D
May 11 16:33:06 <MiXu-> :)
May 11 16:33:17 <MohammadAG> <RST38h> E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.
May 11 16:33:19 <MohammadAG> move it!
May 11 16:33:38 * javispedro sneezes
May 11 16:33:53 <javispedro> mooooooo... aw.
May 11 16:33:57 <RST38h> Mohammad: I will wait for a reasonable package installation instead
May 11 16:34:03 <RST38h> EHLO javispedro
May 11 16:34:16 <DocScrutinizer51> konttori: any pointer where I could try to pick up the loose ends?
May 11 16:34:23 <ohwhyme> hey mohammed :)
May 11 16:34:38 <MohammadAG> hey
May 11 16:34:43 <ohwhyme> thanks for the help with the extras plugin
May 11 16:34:43 <MohammadAG> RST38h, which app?
May 11 16:34:46 <ohwhyme> it works
May 11 16:35:21 <RST38h> Mohammad: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/widelands/15-1/
May 11 16:35:33 <konttori> rodarvus: can you ask Petri for info on what DocScrutinizer51 was asking 19:30.
May 11 16:35:40 <konttori> (tomorrow obviously)
May 11 16:35:51 <RST38h> check out the dependencies
May 11 16:36:07 <konttori> seems like this is question multiple people want to know.
May 11 16:36:16 <DocScrutinizer51> konttori: thanks :)
May 11 16:36:17 <javispedro> RST38h: lua == slow
May 11 16:36:25 <javispedro> at least until someone pushes LUAJIT
May 11 16:36:30 <RST38h> heh
May 11 16:36:35 <konttori> even not possible ever ever ever is good enough knowledge.
May 11 16:37:21 <RST38h> konttori: Are you still handling developers stuff?
May 11 16:37:37 <konttori> I'm looking after Maemo API for Harmattan / Meego atm
May 11 16:37:42 <konttori> so, in that sense, yes
May 11 16:37:44 <RST38h> Oh
May 11 16:37:55 <RST38h> konttori: There is a recent problem with sb2
May 11 16:37:56 <konttori> So, I moved about a week ago from fremantle to harmattan
May 11 16:38:00 <konttori> well, I was pulled.
May 11 16:38:20 <konttori> RST38h: in fremantle sb2? or in sb2 in general?
May 11 16:38:30 <RST38h> konttori: remember that "fix" X-Fade introduced to make fremantle packages build with pre-1.2 dependencies?
May 11 16:38:43 <RST38h> konttori: mm...sb2 in general I think
May 11 16:39:03 <konttori> yeah, I do remember that
May 11 16:39:09 <konttori> so, what about it?
May 11 16:39:14 <RST38h> konttori: Anyway, the fix is a bunch of symbols + Debian Squeeze tools that can make use of them by computing the lowest possible deps
May 11 16:39:34 <RST38h> konttori: The problem is that there are no Debian Squeeze tools for SB2 =((
May 11 16:39:37 * javispedro sneezes again
May 11 16:39:43 <javispedro> RST38h: because it uses your host tools
May 11 16:39:50 <RST38h> javispedro: Does not
May 11 16:39:51 <javispedro> RST38h: as long as you use >= Lenny it will be fin
May 11 16:39:52 <javispedro> e
May 11 16:40:08 <RST38h> javispedro: Uses either Lenny or Etch tools. Does not have options to enable host tools.
May 11 16:40:23 <javispedro> lenny should be fine
May 11 16:40:26 <RST38h> javispedro: both lenny and etch installed implicitely
May 11 16:40:32 <RST38h> explicitely sorry
May 11 16:40:51 <RST38h> javispedro: hmm, gonna recheck. it did not work for me the last time =(
May 11 16:41:24 <korhojoa> damnit.
May 11 16:41:30 <RST38h> javispedro: is there some special step I have to include into my rules file?
May 11 16:41:41 <korhojoa> why is freebsd-linux ipsec so hard
May 11 16:41:43 <javispedro> RST38h: nope; just ensure you keep the dh_shlibdeps one
May 11 16:41:50 <RST38h> checkin'
May 11 16:42:09 <javispedro> RST38h: you need to install some packages though -- maemo-sdk-symbols for a start
May 11 16:42:18 <RST38h> got maemo-sdk-symbols
May 11 16:42:21 <RST38h> anything else?
May 11 16:42:23 <MohammadAG> <RST38h> Mohammad: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/widelands/15-1/
May 11 16:42:28 <MohammadAG> blame apt
May 11 16:42:37 <MohammadAG> install it using HAM, it should download to MyDocs
May 11 16:42:59 <Khertan> hi again ...
May 11 16:43:12 <Khertan> ~t.m.o
May 11 16:43:14 <javispedro> hi Khertan
May 11 16:43:27 <Khertan> ~talk
May 11 16:44:07 <Khertan> ~add t.m.o the home of the whinning maemo community
May 11 16:44:09 <RST38h> Mohammad: With deps like that, I am scared to install it =)
May 11 16:44:34 <Khertan> infobot add t.m.o the home of the whinning maemo community
May 11 16:44:40 <Khertan> ~ping
May 11 16:44:40 <infobot> ~pong
May 11 16:44:47 <Khertan> hum ...
May 11 16:44:51 <javispedro> "t.m.o.  is blablabla"
May 11 16:46:05 <RST38h> javispedro: hey it is fun as long as you treat it as hunting grounds
May 11 16:46:18 <javispedro> ah well.
May 11 16:46:36 <javispedro> btw did I tell you the part where I got a negative vote because "this shitty SNES emulator doesn't load NES roms!"
May 11 16:46:57 <MohammadAG> LOL
May 11 16:47:14 <Khertan> hum i was blame for offering licence to VectorMine testers
May 11 16:47:18 <MohammadAG> javispedro, check Ovi Store reviews then complain
May 11 16:47:45 <javispedro> ah yes. I'm just KILLING for the "I can't play this on my N97. 0 stars." review.
May 11 16:47:45 <Gizmokid2005> Hmm, does 10.04 break Xephyr for the SDK? It seems it has: http://gizmokid2005.pastebin.com/BiYeFz32
May 11 16:47:53 <Khertan> as it could force user to vote just to got free licence ...
May 11 16:47:58 <Khertan> maybe ... but else there is no testers
May 11 16:48:49 <Khertan> of course ovistore didn t exist for n900 ... it s a know fact
May 11 16:49:02 <MohammadAG> Gizmokid2005, haven't open the link yet, but remove the -kb option
May 11 16:49:21 <MohammadAG> Unrecognized option: -kb <-- yep
May 11 16:49:32 <Gizmokid2005> yeah, but is that the ONLY thing killing it?
May 11 16:49:38 <MohammadAG> yes
May 11 16:49:57 <Khertan> gizmokid2005 : yes it did ... and broke qemu install too
May 11 16:50:29 <MohammadAG> Khertan, that happens with each distro upgrade afaik :)
May 11 16:50:31 <Gizmokid2005> WEWT!
May 11 16:50:34 <Gizmokid2005> thanks MohammadAG :)
May 11 16:50:39 <MohammadAG> np :)
May 11 16:50:46 <MohammadAG> I added this to the wiki afaik
May 11 16:50:49 <MohammadAG> ~MaemoSDK
May 11 16:50:49 <infobot> [maemosdk] http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation
May 11 16:50:50 <Gizmokid2005> I had tried that before...when I did the manual terminal install...but that just didn't work
May 11 16:51:19 <Khertan> MohammadAG: i didn t blame ubuntu ... just explain what i see
May 11 16:51:22 <Gizmokid2005> I don't see it MohammadAG
May 11 16:51:26 <MohammadAG> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Starting.2FShutting_down_the_SDK_UI yep
May 11 16:51:34 <Gizmokid2005> ahhh
May 11 16:51:37 <Gizmokid2005> k
May 11 16:51:48 <MohammadAG> Ubuntu 10.04 users using the package in the repositories will have to run the same command without the -kb, however the terminal window will have to stay open.
May 11 16:51:51 <lcuk> konttori, hey - whats the maemo api then?
May 11 16:52:14 <Khertan> maybe someone know how to remove autocapitalization of QTextEdit (pyqt)
May 11 16:52:43 <RST38h>  
May 11 16:52:47 <Khertan> or point me to some maemo specifis tips and trick
May 11 16:52:53 <Khertan> link
May 11 16:53:12 <Gizmokid2005> to think...all this pain so I can work on some themes...
May 11 16:54:38 <Khertan> ~ping
May 11 16:54:38 <infobot> ~pong
May 11 16:56:43 <rodarvus> konttori, I will, thanks for pointing this out
May 11 16:58:27 <DocScrutinizer> rodarvus: thanks! please ping me when there's any news
May 11 17:00:38 <javispedro> Khertan: from looking at the qt/hildon im code, Qt::ImhNoAutoUppercase
May 11 17:01:08 <RST38h> javispedro: ok, tried what you said. No doughnut.
May 11 17:01:16 <RST38h> javispedro: libosso1 is still at >=2.26
May 11 17:01:55 <javispedro> ah, time to make some hd space and download it.
May 11 17:03:00 <frals> <javispedro> btw did I tell you the part where I got a negative vote because "this shitty SNES emulator doesn't load NES roms!"
May 11 17:03:06 <javispedro> either way updating it to squeeze doesn't seem uberhard http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/download/rootstrap-index/lenny-2009-1.config
May 11 17:03:15 <frals> javispedro: atleast you got a comment, i got negative vote without a comment
May 11 17:04:15 <RST38h> javispedro: except that I am stupid and have no idea how to do it =(
May 11 17:04:28 <javispedro> Khertan: look atQWidget::setInputMethodHints(Qt::ImhNoAutoUppercase)
May 11 17:06:02 <Khertan> thx javispedro : any idea on how to translate that to python ?
May 11 17:06:13 <Khertan> oh thx
May 11 17:07:11 <lopz> Hello, my n800 for a while began to sprout a pixelated line on the screen, ran from the top to the bottom of the screen .. h last night I stopped loading and morning NO WORK! the screen went all black with some light reflecting .. I reinstalled the system and it worked again .. , but now all the screen is pixelated, they interspersed lines, and the screen is no longer sharper .. Any idea that could have happened? I was just plugged in, did not fall or anyt
May 11 17:07:12 <lopz> hing.
May 11 17:07:34 <lopz> :(
May 11 17:07:37 <lcuk> lopz, picture?
May 11 17:08:33 <lopz> I have no good resolution camera .. and not noticed the lines on the screen in any image (picture) lcuk
May 11 17:08:47 <lopz> :\
May 11 17:09:08 <Khertan> oh ! it s funny to see homeip in the tool section of the nokia pdf guide for qt developpers !
May 11 17:09:08 <Khertan> huhu
May 11 17:09:16 <lcuk> lopz, have you by chance been watching doctor who on the device?
May 11 17:10:31 <Khertan> there is ls also a diablo screenshot huhu !
May 11 17:10:40 <lopz> lcuk, Yes, by chance .. I bought the device for years, in the USA but I live in Bolivia .. Here there is no support from Nokia
May 11 17:11:45 <Myrtti> lcuk: I think the angel was lost there
May 11 17:12:21 <lcuk> Myrtti, yes
May 11 17:13:01 <Myrtti> lopz: I'd be surprised if theres support anywhere for that device
May 11 17:13:05 <pvanhoof> Who's in charge of quality control for community packages for N900?
May 11 17:13:16 <Khertan> hum ... noone
May 11 17:13:35 <pvanhoof> So if a piece of software breaks the phone, then noone can remove the package?
May 11 17:14:00 <lcuk> pvanhoof, x-fade and the council can usually communicate
May 11 17:14:04 <Myrtti> that's a different issue
May 11 17:14:04 <pvanhoof> For example, I installed a software to select between GPRS, UMTS, G2, G3, I uninstalled it, and now it's impossible to select anything but Wifi
May 11 17:14:12 <lcuk> and packages have been pulled when problems occur - fmradio for one
May 11 17:14:18 <pvanhoof> That's quite insanely bad, no?
May 11 17:14:22 <pvanhoof> To brick people's phones
May 11 17:14:39 <lcuk> pvanhoof, then get onto maemo-dev mailing list and ping X-Fade and Jaffa and anyone else
May 11 17:14:45 <lcuk> and file a bug on the software
May 11 17:14:46 <Khertan> ~ping
May 11 17:14:47 <infobot> ~pong
May 11 17:15:00 <pvanhoof> Let me first try to recover from this developer's fuckup
May 11 17:15:01 <pvanhoof> sigh..
May 11 17:15:03 <lcuk> pvanhoof, is it in extras?
May 11 17:15:08 <lcuk> or -devel?
May 11 17:15:24 <pvanhoof> lcuk, dno, it was in the application manager without that I added any repo myself
May 11 17:15:33 <pvanhoof> Standard out of the box n900
May 11 17:15:34 <lcuk> well check
May 11 17:15:39 <lcuk> if its devel its your fault im afraid
May 11 17:15:47 <pvanhoof> lcuk, no this wasn't devel
May 11 17:15:54 <lcuk> well which package is it
May 11 17:15:55 <pvanhoof> lcuk, all standard
May 11 17:16:02 <pvanhoof> lcuk, im looking it up...
May 11 17:16:42 <pvanhoof> lcuk, when I select inet connections and I have a gprs inet connection configured, it should always show the gprs one, right?
May 11 17:16:52 <lcuk> only if its available?
May 11 17:17:18 <lcuk> mine appears and vanishes afaik based on whether i have sim in
May 11 17:17:18 <pvanhoof> Well gprs is available on my data plan, and it used to be visible, but gprs is gone
May 11 17:17:25 <pvanhoof> yeah my sim is in
May 11 17:17:32 <lcuk> ok which app do you suspect
May 11 17:17:39 <pvanhoof> at "Select connection"
May 11 17:17:42 <pvanhoof> gimme a minute
May 11 17:17:59 <pvanhoof> here I have wifi , at the restaurant where I was I didn't, so .. getting my phone back online now :)
May 11 17:18:13 <pvanhoof> grmbl :)
May 11 17:18:39 <pvanhoof> So this is why harmattan will have a security framework :D
May 11 17:19:03 <pvanhoof> lcuk, when you select "All packages" , it's the second
May 11 17:19:04 <lcuk> shit happens - and developers on all frameworks are just as capable of introducing bugs
May 11 17:19:14 <pvanhoof> "3G/2G/Duao Mode Selection Applet"
May 11 17:19:17 <lcuk> im sure you have made a few booboos yourself
May 11 17:19:28 <pvanhoof> lcuk, yeah but we don't release that! :D
May 11 17:19:39 <lcuk> :)
May 11 17:19:46 <pvanhoof> "3G/2G/Dual Mode Selection Applet"
May 11 17:19:49 <pvanhoof> That's the title
May 11 17:20:08 <lcuk> ok
May 11 17:20:09 <pvanhoof> At least that's the software that I suspect caused this
May 11 17:20:10 <lcuk> http://maemo.org/packages/view/3g2g-mode-selection-applet/
May 11 17:20:11 <MiXu-> I haven't had problems with that app
May 11 17:20:22 <pvanhoof> MiXu-, but did you uninstall it?
May 11 17:20:22 <lcuk> yes well lets walk it through with qwerty :)
May 11 17:20:35 <MiXu-> pvanhoof: No
May 11 17:20:49 <pvanhoof> MiXu-, I uninstalled it because I want my phone to auto-select it, and now no more gprs at all :)
May 11 17:21:00 <MiXu-> pvanhoof: Did you reboot?
May 11 17:21:04 <pvanhoof> Well anyway, I suspect that package
May 11 17:21:06 <pvanhoof> MiXu-, yes
May 11 17:21:31 <javispedro> pvanhoof: that's in extras, which means it worked for at least 10 users. So please ensure it really is that package.
May 11 17:21:32 <pvanhoof> MiXu-, after reboot I saw the OpenVPN button in the menu too. Apparently I didn't reboot after installing openvpn software either
May 11 17:21:41 <lcuk> well lets not get ahead of ourselves
May 11 17:21:47 <pvanhoof> javispedro, but have those ten users uninstalled it?
May 11 17:21:56 <lcuk> uninstallation may have done something different
May 11 17:22:06 <lcuk> but lets see what it does
May 11 17:22:20 <pvanhoof> lcuk, yah, /me opens the package to check its scripts :)
May 11 17:22:22 <MiXu-> I would be surprised if the selection-app was the one to blame, because it doesn't really have anything to do with APNs
May 11 17:22:32 * javispedro agrees with MiXu-
May 11 17:23:06 <pvanhoof> ok, is there anything I could check? I don't see my gprs connection in the "Select connection" dialog, but I do have it configured in Settings
May 11 17:23:18 <lcuk> pvanhoof, did you disable the mode you need and then uninstall perhaps?
May 11 17:23:32 <javispedro> pvanhoof: can you do phone calls?
May 11 17:23:34 <lcuk> ie just unintended consequence?
May 11 17:23:34 <pvanhoof> lcuk, might be, I don't remember
May 11 17:23:40 <lcuk> that sounds reasonable
May 11 17:23:40 <pvanhoof> javispedro, yes
May 11 17:23:52 <lcuk> i wouldnt know how uninstalling it could expect to restore the setting
May 11 17:23:57 <pvanhoof> lcuk, so if I reinstall it, enable the mode I need, and then uninstall, it should be back?
May 11 17:24:05 <MiXu-> To recover, you can use gconftool2 to check whether your APN still exists. If it does you can remove it and it will reappear on boot.
May 11 17:24:05 <lcuk> ive got a feeling it would
May 11 17:24:07 <lcuk> it makes sense
May 11 17:24:11 <pvanhoof> lcuk, lemme try
May 11 17:24:12 <lcuk> the app just toggles switches
May 11 17:24:13 <javispedro> you can use the control panel to change between 2g/3g/dual
May 11 17:24:16 <javispedro> which is all the applet does...
May 11 17:24:27 <javispedro> (notice no "disabled" mode)
May 11 17:24:36 <lcuk> me neither but its a possible
May 11 17:24:40 <pvanhoof> javispedro, where do I do this?
May 11 17:24:47 <javispedro> "Phone" control panel item
May 11 17:24:54 <javispedro> Applications -> Settings -> Phone
May 11 17:25:08 <pvanhoof> Network mode says "3G"
May 11 17:25:19 <javispedro> well, try switching it to "Dual"
May 11 17:25:23 <pvanhoof> ok
May 11 17:25:32 <javispedro> (which is the default...)
May 11 17:25:44 <pvanhoof> Shouldn't it auto-detect this?
May 11 17:25:54 <javispedro> autodetection = Dual
May 11 17:26:08 <lcuk> pvanhoof, "auto" does the detection, the specific mode doesnt..
May 11 17:26:21 <pvanhoof> aha ok
May 11 17:26:28 <pvanhoof> yes
May 11 17:26:30 <pvanhoof> it's back
May 11 17:26:32 * lcuk watches as downloads of qwertys app go up
May 11 17:26:32 <pvanhoof> so
May 11 17:26:43 <pvanhoof> I think the app on uninstall should set the switch back to dual
May 11 17:26:53 <pvanhoof> so that the poor mortals don't go crazy
May 11 17:27:00 <lcuk> tbh you are the first :)
May 11 17:27:04 <pvanhoof> lcuk :)
May 11 17:27:14 <pvanhoof> lcuk, but don't you agree that this is going to drive people mad? :)
May 11 17:27:41 <lcuk> i think you should file a bug about it to qwerty and the good developer he is will try to do something on uninstallation
May 11 17:27:42 <pvanhoof> I guess a little gconftool-2 line in the uninstall script of the package should do
May 11 17:27:55 <pvanhoof> qwerty eh, ok, gne gne
May 11 17:27:56 <javispedro> the app is not necessarily indicated to novice users -- there's not much benefit for them.
May 11 17:28:11 <javispedro> (IMHO=
May 11 17:28:13 <javispedro> )
May 11 17:28:14 <pvanhoof> javispedro, yes but any standard n900 shows it in the application-manager under All, second app
May 11 17:28:21 <lcuk> pvanhoof, but your initial fire fire isnt so bad now we know the cause :)
May 11 17:28:40 <pvanhoof> javispedro, so normal people are going to think: cool thing! and then, click click, and then, naa uninstall, and then for as far as they are concerned the phone is bricked
May 11 17:28:51 <javispedro> so qwerty should explain that his app does NOT enable 3g as the N900 does that by default
May 11 17:29:08 <javispedro> and his app is just an easy switcher for either battery-centric or control-freak users
May 11 17:29:16 <pvanhoof> lcuk, sure but still :) I was thinking: damn, now I have to read that software's code to get my gprs back!
May 11 17:29:35 <pvanhoof> ill file the bug
May 11 17:29:55 <pvanhoof> is that bugs.maemo.org?
May 11 17:29:57 <lcuk> pvanhoof :) such is the life in OSS - i'd much rather have teamwork and helping identify things than a closed system where it all rests on specifics
May 11 17:30:11 <lcuk> pvanhoof, in his app theres a bug mail address
May 11 17:30:15 <pvanhoof> lcuk, sure, on a closed environment I would have to go to the store
May 11 17:30:19 <pvanhoof> and they'd simply flash my device
May 11 17:30:33 <lcuk> http://maemo.org/packages/view/3g2g-mode-selection-applet/
May 11 17:30:42 <pvanhoof> He has no bugzilla?
May 11 17:30:50 <lcuk> so really coming here and spending 5 minutes to help everyone is better
May 11 17:31:07 <lcuk> pvanhoof, not a requirement, hes got an address and responds afaik
May 11 17:31:13 <lopz>  Myrtti sorry, was putting my device .. I see that has a small battery, my city is very very wet and I see that the battery has something green .. as about to rust, that pile is welded to the plate .. Could it be? something could have been oxidized? moisture could have entered? what could be done in these cases .. and no, there is no support for this device in my city or country: (
May 11 17:31:59 <Myrtti> lopz: I'd be surprised if there's any support ANYWHERE, since it's an old device
May 11 17:32:11 <MiXu-> Clean it. I don't think there's much else you could do.
May 11 17:32:12 <Myrtti> lopz: official support
May 11 17:32:17 <lcuk> pvanhoof what nice things is fremantle tracker missing that we can backport?
May 11 17:33:04 <javispedro> mailto link is badly formatted btw
May 11 17:33:14 <javispedro> (probably packages interface bug iirc)
May 11 17:34:06 <pvanhoof> lcuk, what was the q? Compared to Harmattan's tracker?
May 11 17:34:11 <lcuk> javispedro, im wondering whether if we make a few bugzilla categories for apps that people supply an email address for
May 11 17:34:16 <pvanhoof> lcuk, euh, Harmattan's tracker is "completely" different :)
May 11 17:34:27 <pvanhoof> That's not backportable
May 11 17:35:03 <pvanhoof> Also, one of our contributors has packages for tracker 0.7 and 0.8 on fremantle already, but installing it wont make the softwares use it too
May 11 17:35:04 <lcuk> pvanhoof, shame, javispedro did a little and supplied a patch recently
May 11 17:35:20 <lcuk> for album art afaik
May 11 17:35:22 <pvanhoof> For example the media player wont talk with the 0.7 tracker
May 11 17:35:30 <javispedro> lcuk, pvanhoof yeah I backported a few oneliner bugfixes to the 0.6 one
May 11 17:35:31 <pvanhoof> It will still talk with the 0.6 tracker
May 11 17:36:01 <javispedro> (come to think of it konttori did also mention that a 0.7 tracker backport might be interesting..)
May 11 17:36:05 <pvanhoof> Ah, sure, but bugfixes for 0.6 are still happening at nokia internal. So if you file bugs and attach your patches, they'll get slipstreamed into a new official release
May 11 17:36:10 <lcuk> yeah it was mentioned
May 11 17:36:38 <pvanhoof> javispedro, yeah but such a (serious) backport would require our team's attention. And we're of course in full-harmattan mode now
May 11 17:36:47 <pvanhoof> So I don't know for sure if that's going to happen for fremantle
May 11 17:36:53 <lcuk> javispedro, thats why i mentioned it
May 11 17:36:56 <javispedro> I personally doubt it =)
May 11 17:36:57 <kevloral> hi all
May 11 17:37:02 <pvanhoof> I made an estimation for this and give it to the architects at nokia :)
May 11 17:37:23 <pvanhoof> And so now it's in their decision-making queue
May 11 17:37:46 * lcuk nods
May 11 17:37:51 <javispedro> hm.. sb2 crashes :(
May 11 17:38:36 <javispedro> for some reason open("/root/something"..) with uid != root doesn't return EPERM but a coredump inside the box :P
May 11 17:42:08 <iPeter-> OMG
May 11 17:42:26 <iPeter-> I was flasing my N900 with maemo SDK trough VirtualBox
May 11 17:42:31 <iPeter-> then i got an error
May 11 17:42:53 <iPeter-> Sending and flashing rootfs image (158336 kB)... 2% (4480 of 158336 kB, 3648 kB/s)
May 11 17:42:56 <iPeter-> Write failed after 4587520 bytes
May 11 17:42:58 <iPeter-> usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable
May 11 17:43:07 <iPeter-> What should i do?
May 11 17:43:13 <javispedro> did it boot?
May 11 17:43:17 <lcuk> iPeter-, then work drectly on native USB system and try again
May 11 17:43:27 <javispedro> do not unplug the cable
May 11 17:43:40 <javispedro> until you get some more information (as unplugging will cause it to reboot)
May 11 17:43:47 <iPeter-> javispedro: I didnt do anything yet. Im having a panic
May 11 17:44:02 <javispedro> well, I have no experience with that as it never happened to me :(
May 11 17:44:23 <iPeter-> Fuu
May 11 17:44:29 <iPeter-> What should i do?
May 11 17:45:00 <javispedro> the good news is that probably nothing is bricked (rootfs is not bootloader)
May 11 17:45:22 <javispedro> so I'd do as per lcuk and retry :)
May 11 17:45:23 <iPeter-> javispedro: What happens if i do remove that cable?
May 11 17:45:28 <lopz> Myrtti, Is that there's no official support from Nokia.
May 11 17:45:31 <iPeter-> i tried retry
May 11 17:45:42 <iPeter-> Hmm
May 11 17:45:54 * RST38h fucked up his fremantle rootstrap install =(((
May 11 17:45:56 <iPeter-> Maybe ill just grab my laptop and istall ubuntu to that
May 11 17:46:22 <javispedro> RST38h: my sb2 is crashing every time I try to open a file with O_WR :(
May 11 17:46:34 <RST38h> javispedro: remind me never again to fiddle with this =(
May 11 17:46:41 <RST38h> javispedro: Ah, do not try to run stuff UNDER sb2
May 11 17:46:56 <RST38h> But I think your particular problem can be fixed
May 11 17:47:27 <RST38h> javispedro: echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr (C)hrw
May 11 17:47:34 <javispedro> ah, probably.
May 11 17:47:48 <RST38h> that is, on your host
May 11 17:47:52 <luke-jr> RST38h: that reduces security
May 11 17:47:58 <javispedro> this is an amd64 box
May 11 17:48:00 <javispedro> though
May 11 17:50:22 <hawai`i> SDK image refuses connectivity for some reason :(
May 11 17:50:25 <javispedro> curiously enough running stuff _outside_ sb2 using the sb2 prefix works.
May 11 17:50:51 <MohammadAG> hawai`i, /etc/resolv.conf
May 11 17:50:53 <MohammadAG> fix it
May 11 17:51:16 <hawai`i> oh good call. I am on a different network here.
May 11 17:51:25 <RST38h> `�дбб,n
May 11 17:51:37 <hawai`i> Haha, what a stupid oversight on my part.
May 11 17:51:40 <Myrtti> lopz: well, N800 is an old device, as you know... Nokia's had three devices since
May 11 17:52:10 <RST38h> javispedro: amd64 can cause all kind of weirdness
May 11 17:52:15 <RST38h> sb1 or sb2
May 11 17:52:42 <MohammadAG> hawai`i, admit it, you're stupid
May 11 17:52:43 <MohammadAG> :P
May 11 17:53:10 <trumee> cant find tweakr in the app manager, has it been removed?
May 11 17:53:16 <hawai`i> MohammadAG: I will impregnate your sister
May 11 17:53:59 <MohammadAG> hawai`i, go f yourself
May 11 17:54:18 * hawai`i hugs MohammadAG 
May 11 17:54:38 * MohammadAG hits hawai`i with another brick
May 11 17:54:58 * javispedro curses the huge disk footprint of the sdk
May 11 17:55:02 <lopz> Myrtti, http://i.imgur.com/LK8Ev.png
May 11 17:55:20 <trumee> tweakr not a stable app?
May 11 17:55:36 <trumee> any other app to create profile?
May 11 17:56:04 <hawai`i> ProfilesX
May 11 17:56:11 <javispedro> iPeter-: or use windows itself to reflash
May 11 17:56:32 <Myrtti> lopz: er, right?
May 11 17:57:51 <trumee> hawai`i: cant find it either in app manager. is it in testing/devel?
May 11 17:59:06 <hawai`i> trumee: Depends what repositories you have in HAM. They're probably both in -devel
May 11 18:00:45 <trumee> hawai`i: dont have -devel in Ham
May 11 18:01:09 <hawai`i> trumee: Well now would be a time to consider adding it.
May 11 18:04:04 <javispedro> "Oil Leak Could Be Stopped with a Nuke" Deus Ex Nukina!
May 11 18:07:29 <thresh> javispedro: yeah, Russian Scientists do approve.
May 11 18:10:32 <lopz> Myrtti, in the screenshot are not the stripes .. is the screen then, right?
May 11 18:12:42 <adalal> heya
May 11 18:12:48 <adalal> im having trouble with cat
May 11 18:12:54 <adalal> the cat command
May 11 18:13:02 <dotblank> adalal, What about cat?
May 11 18:13:51 <dotblank> !ask
May 11 18:14:03 <Myrtti> lopz: how would I know?
May 11 18:14:22 <Myrtti> lopz: if there's an error in the hardware, then it obviously wouldn't show up in the screenshot
May 11 18:14:34 <Stskeeps> lopz: some n800 screens just die - mine did
May 11 18:15:09 <lopz> ohh right?
May 11 18:15:25 <jacekowski> btw. i dropped my n900 today
May 11 18:15:30 <jacekowski> well, it fell from a container
May 11 18:15:31 <SWFu> Awesome Kismet is fully working now! :)
May 11 18:15:47 <jacekowski> and it's still working
May 11 18:15:48 <lopz> Stskeeps, my screen is pixelated .. began with a line, now is the screen lines
May 11 18:16:16 <javispedro> RST38h: ok, working.
May 11 18:16:20 <Stskeeps> lopz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcm5TYGwTwU
May 11 18:16:53 <mikki-kun> hm, can anybody lend me a hand in assigning my n900 a static ip (with the n900, not the router)
May 11 18:17:10 <javispedro> RST38h: libosso1 (>= 2.23), which is PR1.0
May 11 18:17:50 <javispedro> RST38h: either way I'm looking at the logs and you mention it gives you libosso >= 2.26, which is PR1.1.1, not PR1.2
May 11 18:17:55 <lopz> Stskeeps, :(
May 11 18:17:59 <javispedro> RST38h: so something is clearly working.
May 11 18:18:16 <lopz> then my screen dying?
May 11 18:18:19 <javispedro> (unless you still have the 1.1.1 sdk?)
May 11 18:20:17 <RST38h> javispedro: Correct. Except that 2.26 is also not kosher enough. X-Fade wants 2.23
May 11 18:20:23 <RST38h> javispedro: or he won't promote
May 11 18:20:49 <RST38h> javispedro: I am pretty sure you have got 2.26 installed inside the sdk, so that is why you are getting 2.26 =)
May 11 18:20:59 <javispedro>  libosso-dev    2.31-1+0m5
May 11 18:21:12 <javispedro> I just installed it, to my hdd's dismay, so I cannot have any earlier version
May 11 18:21:42 <RST38h> weird shit
May 11 18:21:51 <RST38h> I am still downloading fremantle bootstrap
May 11 18:21:56 <javispedro> did you have 2.26 installed, or 2.31?
May 11 18:22:22 <javispedro> cause if you had 2.26 and it emitted a 2.26 dependency it was not working at all.
May 11 18:24:57 <adalal> dotblank: im trying to cat a /sys/ file in queenbeecon, but it says permission denied because it doesn't execute the command as root..
May 11 18:25:10 <dotblank> adalal, yea
May 11 18:25:43 <DocScrutinizer51> sudo is your friend
May 11 18:25:45 <dotblank> thats how it should work if your not root then tha will happen
May 11 18:25:46 <_llll_> would be very worrying if cat did automatically change to root!
May 11 18:25:55 <adalal> dotblank: is there a way to run that command as root?
May 11 18:26:01 <dotblank> sudo cat
May 11 18:26:08 <dotblank> but!
May 11 18:26:09 <adalal> but won't that ask for a password?
May 11 18:26:22 <dotblank> you are right
May 11 18:26:29 <DocScrutinizer51> depends on sudoers
May 11 18:26:44 <adalal> how would i change that?
May 11 18:26:48 <dotblank> DocScrutinizer51 is wise
May 11 18:26:54 <lopz> Myrtti, Stskeeps http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=26891 my screen is dying :(
May 11 18:27:05 <luke-jr> visudo
May 11 18:27:06 * h0n3st is away: I'm busy
May 11 18:27:15 <adalal> lol
May 11 18:27:27 <Stskeeps> lopz: there's an error on a bunch of n800s sadly and there's not a lot we can do about it
May 11 18:27:34 <DocScrutinizer51> man sudoers
May 11 18:27:35 <Stskeeps> i use my n800 with scrolling screen as a boxee remote now
May 11 18:28:04 <iPeter-> Damn, my n900 :(
May 11 18:28:10 <adalal> DocScrutinizer51, how would i get that sorted? sudoing
May 11 18:28:12 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: what issue do you have?
May 11 18:28:18 <DocScrutinizer51> man sudoers
May 11 18:28:27 <DocScrutinizer51> adalal:
May 11 18:28:43 <_llll_> dont use visudo on the n8900 though!
May 11 18:28:49 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: I did try flash my n900 from virtualbox maemo sdk and it didnt go so well.
May 11 18:28:58 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: ok, symptoms?
May 11 18:29:05 <javispedro> iPeter-: as I was telling you, you can also reflash from windows...
May 11 18:29:22 <adalal> k
May 11 18:29:23 <iPeter-> umm trying now to get it updatemode again, and flash it with live cd ubuntu
May 11 18:29:34 <iPeter-> javispedro: No, it wont work on windows 7 64bit, javispedro
May 11 18:29:48 <javispedro> not even Nokia NSU?
May 11 18:30:02 <javispedro> er... the official Nokia Software Upgrader
May 11 18:30:06 <iPeter-> omg
May 11 18:30:12 <iPeter-> Didnt know of that -.-
May 11 18:30:24 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: what symptoms are you having atm? :P
May 11 18:30:29 <lopz> Stskeeps, ok, how sad .. and I can change the screen? how much would it cost me one ..
May 11 18:30:30 <RST38h> javispedro: I think I had 2.26
May 11 18:30:31 <iPeter-> but, how do i put this in update mode to do the job with ubuntu
May 11 18:30:41 <hawai`i> You don't need to.
May 11 18:30:51 <Stskeeps> lopz: i tried to repair the cable/screen and no luck. i think a new n800 might be cheaper
May 11 18:30:54 <javispedro> RST38h: ah well. what does sb2 dpkg -l maemo-sdk-symbols print?
May 11 18:31:14 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: when i take usb cable off, it shuts off. Then i did plug cable back and it goes on and off. now there is a orange light
May 11 18:31:23 <hawai`i> iPeter-: Turn it off, setup your flasher arguments and it will wait for the device to be connected.
May 11 18:31:24 <adalal> DocScrutinizer51: do you how to add it? i could try reading it, but it's gonna take me ages, i just learnt sed ... lol
May 11 18:31:31 <johnsq> Hi
May 11 18:31:35 <hawai`i> HI
May 11 18:31:42 <lopz> Stskeeps, hehe ok, or n900 :)
May 11 18:31:56 <iPeter-> hawai`i: It is off, like not in os, it gives nokia logo all of the time
May 11 18:32:00 <RST38h> javispedro: No packages found matching maemo-sdk-symbols.
May 11 18:32:02 <DocScrutinizer51> adalal: not off top of my head
May 11 18:32:05 <DocScrutinizer51> sorry
May 11 18:32:11 <lopz> I'm hoping to leave some with meego
May 11 18:32:14 <RST38h> javispedro: Just installed rootstrap from scratch, compiled speccy
May 11 18:32:16 <javispedro> RST38h: that's what I though =) you have to install it inside the box
May 11 18:32:21 <hawai`i> iPeter-: is flasher waiting for the device to be attached?
May 11 18:32:22 <RST38h> javispedro: deps say libosso1>=2.23
May 11 18:32:30 <alterego> Anyone know what that update to opera did?
May 11 18:32:32 <RST38h> jaispedro: notice, NO SYMBOLS
May 11 18:32:47 <hawai`i> alterego: tearing and config saving, AFAIK.
May 11 18:32:49 <iPeter-> hawai`i: Now it is
May 11 18:32:58 <alterego> hawai`i: nice, cheers :)
May 11 18:33:07 <RST38h> javispedro: ii  libosso1       2.31-1+0m5
May 11 18:33:09 <iPeter-> "Suitable USB device not found, waiting." Running ubuntu 10.04 LTS live
May 11 18:33:14 * javispedro doesn't understand sb2
May 11 18:33:15 <lopz> Stskeeps, eres spañol ?
May 11 18:33:16 <hawai`i> iPeter-: now plug the damn N900 in
May 11 18:33:23 <Stskeeps> lopz: no
May 11 18:33:24 <iPeter-> hawai`i: It is plugged
May 11 18:33:31 <javispedro> just a moments ago it was running autoreconf, but autoconf was NOT installed!!
May 11 18:33:31 <RST38h> libosso1-dev is not installed
May 11 18:33:33 <iPeter-> hawai`i: It just keeps vibrating
May 11 18:33:44 <RST38h> javispedro: maybe it is falling back to host tools?
May 11 18:33:58 <hawai`i> iPeter-: Remove it, remove battery. Place battery. Setup flasher arguments WITHOUT PLUGGING IT IN
May 11 18:34:06 <hawai`i> iPeter-: hold U, plug cable it. Flash.
May 11 18:34:06 <iPeter-> ok
May 11 18:34:11 <javispedro> RST38h: I was told it used host tools.
May 11 18:34:16 <lopz> Stskeeps, I reading you history in itt forum xD
May 11 18:34:31 <DocScrutinizer51> adalal: add a line like 'ser ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/cat /sys/whatever-file'
May 11 18:34:43 <adalal> ok thanks
May 11 18:35:06 <javispedro> did rootsh stop existing?
May 11 18:35:14 <DocScrutinizer51> adalal: just copy and edit one of the lines in there
May 11 18:35:20 <RST38h> javispedro: I have got two toolsets installed (etch and lenny) and dpkg crashes for me when I am not using hrw's trick
May 11 18:35:26 <adalal> will do.. but after that, does it require a restart?
May 11 18:35:29 <RST38h> javispedro: it crashes in QEMU. So no host tools
May 11 18:35:32 <adalal> DocScrutinizer51:
May 11 18:35:35 <iPeter-> hawai`i: didnt work, doesnt go in update mode
May 11 18:35:40 <_llll_> isnt that exactly what they tell you not to do, or you will mess up the default sudoers stuff
May 11 18:35:47 <_llll_> because it regenerates it on reboot
May 11 18:35:48 <javispedro> RST38h: ahhhh because I forgot about the -eR part
May 11 18:36:00 <javispedro> RST38h: sb2 -eR dpkg -l maemo-sdk-symbols
May 11 18:36:05 <RST38h> hm
May 11 18:36:25 <hawai`i> iPeter-: Then you have 1 of 3 problems
May 11 18:36:25 <RST38h> No packages found matching maemo-sdk-symbols.
May 11 18:36:26 * javispedro bangs head agains the table
May 11 18:36:44 <iPeter-> hawai`i: What i have to do now
May 11 18:37:02 <hawai`i> iPeter-: Either your USB port is botched, NOLO is botched or you are not doing something right.
May 11 18:37:22 <javispedro> mixing -eR and not -eR commands in sb2 is BAD. first lesson learned..
May 11 18:37:23 <Stskeeps> grab a 32-bit ubuntu live cd and do it from there
May 11 18:37:24 <Stskeeps> :P
May 11 18:37:24 <adalal> DocScrutinizer51: do you need a restart after editing the sudoers file?
May 11 18:37:56 <hawai`i> adalal: No
May 11 18:37:59 <_llll_> adalal: dont follow the advice, read http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access#A_note_on_sudo
May 11 18:38:08 <iPeter-> hawai`i: what that botched means?
May 11 18:38:19 <TomaszD> why is the brodit n900 holder is so freaking expensive...
May 11 18:38:19 <hawai`i> If you can't setup sudoers, you need to stop now.
May 11 18:38:30 <hawai`i> TomaszD: Car holder? ProClip is $50!
May 11 18:38:31 <noobmonk3y> botched = broken, and fixed back together with sticky tape lol
May 11 18:38:35 <javispedro> iPeter-: run flasher as root, btw
May 11 18:38:42 <noobmonk3y> ie it wasnt working, but randomly fixed to get it working ;)
May 11 18:38:45 <iPeter-> javispedro: sudo
May 11 18:39:07 <TomaszD> hawai`i, you don't need the original proclip, I'm talking about the holder itself
May 11 18:39:25 <javispedro> RST38h: well, if it worked, dunno why.
May 11 18:39:42 <javispedro> RST38h: i do have maemo-sdk-symbols installed when queried with sb2 -eR
May 11 18:40:13 <iPeter-> javispedro: Do you have time to help me out?
May 11 18:40:33 <adalal> _llll_: thanks
May 11 18:40:33 <javispedro> iPeter-: what's wrong with the rest of the channel? =)
May 11 18:40:36 <hawai`i> TomaszD: never seen the Brodit.
May 11 18:40:48 <iPeter-> javispedro: You reply and try to help
May 11 18:41:00 <hawai`i> iPeter-: We've all been replying and helping you.
May 11 18:41:08 <iPeter-> Yeah.
May 11 18:41:10 <iPeter-> Damn
May 11 18:41:15 <iPeter-> Getting mad with this
May 11 18:41:25 <iPeter-> I dont have done anything wrong and this doesnt go usb mode
May 11 18:41:31 <hawai`i> How unfortunate.
May 11 18:41:49 <ds3> anyone know why the geotagging option in the N900 camera app warns about needing data access?
May 11 18:41:52 <RST38h> javispedro: I will try installing the symbols now
May 11 18:41:59 <TomaszD> hawai`i, any idea for a bike holder?
May 11 18:42:00 <RST38h> javispedro: really scared to screw things up though
May 11 18:42:23 <hawai`i> TomaszD: No idear. Gorilla grip and a cheap $10 adjustable perhaps.
May 11 18:42:26 <javispedro> iPeter-: I usually run flasher with the appropriate arguments as root, leave it running ("waiting for device"), then PLUG the previously unplugged and off N900, without holding any keys.
May 11 18:42:53 <adalal> _llll_: do you know how to reload the sudoers file?
May 11 18:43:02 <javispedro> usually works without problem on a sane distro, but who knows where ubuntu is mounting usbfs these days =)
May 11 18:43:46 <iPeter-> javispedro: Why this device is rebooting
May 11 18:44:11 <evilrob> adalal: sudoers gets read everytime sudo is called. no need to reload it after editing
May 11 18:44:15 <javispedro> iPeter-: it is rebooting because it has been misflashed, remove battery if you can't stop it.
May 11 18:44:20 <iPeter-> its giving a nokia logo whitout light for 30sec, then it shuts off, then again but maybe with orange light and vibrates like on startup
May 11 18:44:20 <adalal> oh ok thanks
May 11 18:45:17 <evilrob> you should edit sudoers with visudo only because it can be a syntactic nightmare of a file, and visudo runs a syntax check on it before it comits your changes.
May 11 18:45:40 <javispedro> in fact, you shouldn't edit sudoers at all in maemo.
May 11 18:45:44 <javispedro> use root / rootsh.
May 11 18:45:48 <iPeter-> javispedro: So tell me step by step what to do now
May 11 18:46:25 <iPeter-> if you can, not meant to be rude
May 11 18:46:39 <javispedro> iPeter-: run flasher and let it wait in the "waiting for device" stage
May 11 18:46:45 <javispedro> iPeter-: plug N900 and wait for a reboot cycle
May 11 18:46:51 <javispedro> or two.
May 11 18:48:02 <MiXu-> Upgrading armel scratchbox to pr1.2 fails :(
May 11 18:48:20 <iPeter-> javispedro: then?
May 11 18:48:21 <dhq> is pr1.2 leaked version safe
May 11 18:48:38 <hawai`i> dhq: shut up
May 11 18:48:47 <Stskeeps> dhq: no
May 11 18:48:54 <MiXu-> Well it's not ready so I wouldn't be surprised if it was worse than PR1.1
May 11 18:48:56 <javispedro> iPeter-: is flasher still at the "waiting for device" stage?
May 11 18:49:05 <iPeter-> yes
May 11 18:49:17 <Treibholz> WOW! http://labs.opera.com/news/2010/05/11/
May 11 18:49:23 <Treibholz> has anyone tried, yet?
May 11 18:49:25 <dhq> lol so much frustration
May 11 18:49:25 <Stskeeps> old news
May 11 18:49:25 <Stskeeps> :P
May 11 18:49:28 <RST38h> yes
May 11 18:49:31 <RST38h> it works
May 11 18:49:35 <RST38h> quite fast
May 11 18:49:35 <DocScrutinizer51> javispedro: root won't help with problems you fix with sudo
May 11 18:49:48 <evilrob> Treibholz: just installed it.  nice so far
May 11 18:49:52 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: there's rootsh for that
May 11 18:50:01 <javispedro> rootsh the command
May 11 18:50:03 <DocScrutinizer51> javispedro: see adalal 's initial question
May 11 18:50:20 <DocScrutinizer51> uhuh
May 11 18:50:29 <DocScrutinizer51> never seen never used
May 11 18:52:28 <DocScrutinizer51> and actually I don't see the rationale behind having a replacement for sudo
May 11 18:52:33 <javispedro> iPeter-: and if you hold "u" down for a reboot cycle?
May 11 18:52:46 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: maemo is different!
May 11 18:53:03 <hawai`i> javispedro: How so?
May 11 18:53:08 <DocScrutinizer51> on mere purpose
May 11 18:53:39 <hawai`i> javispedro: it makes no sense not to run a dedicated shell with suid privileges
May 11 18:53:41 <DocScrutinizer51> and I highly dislike that mindset
May 11 18:53:49 <hawai`i> er, makes no sense to do that ^
May 11 18:54:08 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: it's not on purpose but due to bad practises -- the issue here is the misuse of sudo by the system
May 11 18:54:17 <javispedro> which was designed to be a _interactive_ utility.
May 11 18:54:51 <DocScrutinizer51> like 'first let's fsckup su, then invent root, then bork sudo and invent rootsh'
May 11 18:54:55 <javispedro> mostly.
May 11 18:55:07 <Tuukka> hey, how do i open images with xterm?
May 11 18:56:27 <DocScrutinizer51> javispedro: of course. seems Nokia never heard of unix administration. nor of SUID
May 11 18:57:50 <DocScrutinizer51> 'maemo fsck urself, use your own proprietary shit and leave sudo to the user and way of using it that it's supposed to'
May 11 18:58:53 <MohammadAG> replace sudo, problem solved
May 11 18:58:54 <MohammadAG> :P
May 11 18:59:21 <DocScrutinizer51> I mean Nokia exclusively occupying complte linux - then invents proprietary shit for the user to work wit
May 11 18:59:37 <javispedro> that general sentiment is something that should be fixed in MeeGo.
May 11 18:59:40 <DocScrutinizer51> that's outright idiotic
May 11 18:59:50 <hawai`i> Haha no it won't
May 11 19:00:13 <hawai`i> MeeGo will tie hands back, even more than Maemo.
May 11 19:00:20 <hawai`i> Especially coming from Intel.
May 11 19:00:22 <javispedro> oh, it mostly has because Moblin was way saner.
May 11 19:03:21 <javispedro> *has fixed it.
May 11 19:04:10 <hawai`i> I am personally, not looking forward to some of the things that MeeGo will implement.
May 11 19:04:18 <arachnist> a/25
May 11 19:04:21 <arachnist> whoops
May 11 19:04:33 <hawai`i> arachnist: HOW DARE YOU
May 11 19:04:56 <MohammadAG> who wants a man-db package? :D
May 11 19:05:33 <MohammadAG> (cc DocScrutinizer51)
May 11 19:05:45 <iPeter-> javispedro: I tried all those what you said
May 11 19:05:51 <iPeter-> still keeps bootin and bootin
May 11 19:06:14 <MohammadAG> what's the problem?
May 11 19:06:22 <DocScrutinizer51> uh?
May 11 19:06:37 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: ??
May 11 19:06:51 <hawai`i> I'll burn you if you make a man-db package
May 11 19:06:58 <hawai`i> MohammadAG: he's a bit daft.
May 11 19:07:07 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: MEEEEE MemememememeMEEEEEE
May 11 19:07:31 <MohammadAG> 1001kbs
May 11 19:07:38 <MohammadAG> optifying it
May 11 19:08:04 <DocScrutinizer51> lol
May 11 19:08:11 <javispedro> if it installs anything into /usr/share/man say goodbye to it
May 11 19:08:33 <xorAxAx>  just chattr +i it :-)
May 11 19:08:36 <javispedro> also /opt/maemo/usr/share/man
May 11 19:08:45 <MohammadAG> why lol
May 11 19:08:51 <javispedro> docpurge
May 11 19:09:00 <crashanddie> anyone have experience working for Canonical?
May 11 19:09:04 <javispedro> maemo's final boss.
May 11 19:09:17 <MohammadAG> I'd rather not have that experience
May 11 19:09:17 <DocScrutinizer51> why? you haven't moved your /usr/share to eMMC yet????
May 11 19:09:39 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: does that disable docpurge?
May 11 19:09:45 <javispedro> or did you kill it?
May 11 19:09:57 <MohammadAG> don't you just hate it when your PC has only 4 cores...
May 11 19:10:17 <MohammadAG> hmm, that shouldn't affect compilation, nvm
May 11 19:10:27 <hawai`i> MohammadAG: oh how uncivilized.
May 11 19:10:30 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: lol because 1M is nothing
May 11 19:11:04 <iPeter-> Someone help me with this bricked n900 :(
May 11 19:11:24 <Stskeeps> did you grab a 32-bit ubuntu livecd?
May 11 19:11:33 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: Yes
May 11 19:11:42 <DocScrutinizer51> iPeter-: boot linux - flash N900 - cheeeer
May 11 19:11:54 <hawai`i> Are you using a USB hub, per chance, iPeter-?
May 11 19:11:58 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: any chance of charging the device battery on another device?
May 11 19:12:09 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: Nope
May 11 19:12:24 <iPeter-> DocScrutinizer51: Cant get device to flash mode
May 11 19:12:29 <iPeter-> hawai`i: No im not
May 11 19:12:30 <javispedro> Stskeeps: doesn't battery charge while on a reboot loop?
May 11 19:12:32 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: ok, follow these steps
May 11 19:12:35 <javispedro> (precisely due to bq27xxx)
May 11 19:12:49 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: take out battery, plug in usb cable into computer, into device
May 11 19:13:11 <iPeter-> done
May 11 19:13:27 <Stskeeps> start flasher (flasher-3.5 -F fiasco-image -f -R) - do this as root
May 11 19:13:39 <Stskeeps> put in battery
May 11 19:13:58 <DocScrutinizer51> javispedro: alas bootloop will mess with bq24150
May 11 19:14:02 * lcuk puts in battery when flasher says device not found
May 11 19:14:26 <evilrob> DocScrutinizer51: "I don't see how anyone could EVER need more than 640KB of RAM"
May 11 19:14:33 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: I do not press U?
May 11 19:14:45 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: i never do
May 11 19:14:47 <DocScrutinizer51> huh?
May 11 19:15:06 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, with 1MB you could do anything
May 11 19:15:16 <Stskeeps> ah, yes, wait for 'device not found' :P
May 11 19:15:23 <Treibholz> hmm, opera mobile could be cool, but without adblock....
May 11 19:15:25 <evilrob> it's an old Bill Gates quote
May 11 19:15:54 <DocScrutinizer51> on a 32GIGAbyte system I couldn't bother less about 1MB
May 11 19:16:05 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: so i did this 1. took battery off, removed cable, inserted cable, started flasher and inserted battery. Now n900 doesnt do nothing at all
May 11 19:16:23 <iPeter-> and flasher says "Suitable USB device not found, waiting."
May 11 19:16:45 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: put it on wall charger for a while
May 11 19:16:53 <iPeter-> ok
May 11 19:17:29 <evilrob> any systems geek worth his salt knows that quote.  you must be a developer.  :)
May 11 19:17:43 <hawai`i> evilrob: Hahah
May 11 19:18:17 <javispedro> also knows that bill gates said he hasn't ever say himself that quote
May 11 19:18:30 <javispedro> and he attributes it to some ibm guy
May 11 19:18:32 <DocScrutinizer51> evilrob: huh? relevance???
May 11 19:18:52 * frals batteries lcuk when device says found flasher
May 11 19:18:56 <evilrob> now you're claiming IRC chat has to be relavent?
May 11 19:18:59 <Gizmokid2005> Stskeeps: ping
May 11 19:19:04 <Gizmokid2005> I need some help :(
May 11 19:19:23 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: I did put it to wall charger, now it shows nokia logo for 30sec, then blank screen, then it gives a orange light, it shuts off and again nokia logo for 30sec, it keeps repeating this loop
May 11 19:19:24 <MohammadAG> gah, damn dependencies
May 11 19:19:29 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: ok, let it repeat it
May 11 19:19:31 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, sec building dependencies
May 11 19:19:35 <hawai`i> IRC = IRrelevant Chat
May 11 19:19:38 <Stskeeps> Gizmokid2005: ?
May 11 19:19:47 <Gizmokid2005> ThemeMaker 1.2.9 is being a pita and I can't get it to create a deb package...it generates the theme, but for the life of me I can't get a deb out of it.
May 11 19:20:20 <DocScrutinizer51> btw this 640k always been attributed to IBM
May 11 19:20:21 <Gizmokid2005> I should add I'm on Ubuntu
May 11 19:21:06 <DocScrutinizer51> bbl
May 11 19:21:07 <Stskeeps> Gizmokid2005: sorry, use andrewfblack's guide for theme making instead
May 11 19:21:09 <evilrob> DocScrutinizer51: nice googling.  True, it's a processor limit.  not an OS limit.
May 11 19:21:18 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer51: nonsense, it's Bill Gates
May 11 19:21:25 <Gizmokid2005> Stskeeps: do you have a link? The only one I found is for windows...
May 11 19:21:45 <javispedro> nice googling? /me waves
May 11 19:21:55 <evilrob> the quote is widely attributed to him, but I've not seen proof he actually said it.
May 11 19:22:13 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: How long i keep it on charger
May 11 19:22:18 * evilrob waves back
May 11 19:22:39 <hawai`i> iPeter-: at least 24 hours.
May 11 19:22:50 <Stskeeps> Gizmokid2005: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44187
May 11 19:23:03 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: for a while, you need to get the battery back to flashable state
May 11 19:23:16 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: That battery was nearly full when that flashing failed
May 11 19:23:37 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: there's a chance that charge is gone by now :P
May 11 19:23:45 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: also, where in flashing did it fail?
May 11 19:23:49 <javispedro> rootfs
May 11 19:24:04 <Stskeeps> ah, child's play
May 11 19:24:06 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: Dunno, ask javispedro, i gave to him that error.
May 11 19:24:25 <Stskeeps> it's first dangerous if nolo flashing or cmt flashing does ;
May 11 19:24:25 <Stskeeps> )
May 11 19:24:53 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: Whats now? Do i get my device to work or what?
May 11 19:25:05 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: give it a couple of hours on the charger
May 11 19:25:13 <iPeter-> k
May 11 19:26:17 <Gizmokid2005> Stskeeps: thanks..I'll have to installe MADDE and try it I suppose
May 11 19:26:50 <iPeter-> Why i bricked something what worked pretty well :<<<
May 11 19:27:17 <tybollt> iPeter-: why did you brick it then?
May 11 19:27:24 <tybollt> what were you trying to do?
May 11 19:28:14 <iPeter-> tybollt: Flash it and hope better performance :D
May 11 19:28:20 <tybollt> Also walking into a repairshop blaming it on the "normal upgrade routine going avry" may work (has done so for me :)
May 11 19:29:57 <mikki-kun> how can someone tell hs n900 to use a static p?
May 11 19:30:17 <mikki-kun> i know i can set it and i pretty sure set it up correctly but somehow it doesn't work ;/
May 11 19:30:26 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: for which interface?
May 11 19:30:32 <mikki-kun> wlan0
May 11 19:30:36 <muelli> mikki-kun: maybesudo ifconfig wlan0 $ip?
May 11 19:30:52 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: in /etc/network/interfaces
May 11 19:31:00 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: but don't you use DHCP?
May 11 19:31:27 <mikki-kun> hm, would love that to have a pregiven static ip in my network but use dhcp while not in my network
May 11 19:32:02 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: why don't you configure your local DHCP to give you the same IP every time?
May 11 19:32:05 <mikki-kun> Treibholz: you know, without a DNS-server running here in my network it's easier to remember the ip of my device than to look it up when i wanna ssh to it
May 11 19:32:21 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: Tried to boot it, got only nokia logo :
May 11 19:32:35 <mikki-kun> Treibholz: i would do that, but my belkin just sucks.. it doesn't even use my ports which i tell it to goddamn open
May 11 19:32:40 <Treibholz> .oO( How can someone live without a local DNS...? )
May 11 19:33:01 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: if you see a nokia logo, you're in luck :P
May 11 19:33:08 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: which belkin?
May 11 19:33:25 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: Then i took battery away :D
May 11 19:33:39 <mikki-kun> Treibholz: i can up until now... i haven't had the hardware and the needs for it up to this month
May 11 19:33:57 <iPeter-> now its on
May 11 19:33:58 <iPeter-> Stskeeps:
May 11 19:34:03 <mikki-kun> Treibholz: uhm... some old one.. can't even tell from the interface of it which one it is -.-
May 11 19:34:09 <iPeter-> white led and nokia logo with backlight
May 11 19:34:35 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: http://oldwiki.openwrt.org/Hardware(2f)Belkin.html any luck here?
May 11 19:34:48 <dotblank> awesome... got qjson base to work
May 11 19:34:56 <mikki-kun> Treibholz: i looked it up, WiP :(
May 11 19:35:38 <Treibholz> mikki-kun: rember to look at this page BEFORE you buy hardware! :-)
May 11 19:36:04 <hawai`i> mikki-kun: static address reservation works on every router I've *ever* seen
May 11 19:36:31 <mikki-kun> Treibholz: you know, i've had this pos for 3 years now... but i got into linux just around 1.5 years ago...
May 11 19:36:49 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: Im pretty sure there is battery enough
May 11 19:37:09 <RST38bis> javis: now getting dep problems with libhildon and libhildonmme
May 11 19:37:17 <frals> ~nuke talk.maemo.org
May 11 19:37:56 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: What to do now?
May 11 19:38:11 <mikki-kun> ok, now that is just great -.-
May 11 19:38:30 <adnyxo> elo
May 11 19:38:54 <mikki-kun> my device is registered, i can SSH to it, but it screwes up with the DNS
May 11 19:40:27 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: did you leave it charging? :P
May 11 19:42:24 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: Its now charging but i want to flash it now.
May 11 19:42:35 <iPeter-> Night is coming and im fucked up
May 11 19:43:41 <RST38bis> how unusual
May 11 19:43:58 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: So, tips? :)
May 11 19:44:28 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: charge it overnight, best advice i can give
May 11 19:44:38 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: But what after that?
May 11 19:44:53 <Stskeeps> try to flash
May 11 19:45:14 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: But i cant get it to flash mode
May 11 19:46:05 * lcuk inserts n900 into frals when flasher says no trout
May 11 19:46:28 <frals> no trout?! blasphemy!
May 11 19:46:33 <hawai`i> iPeter-: Why do you insist on being difficult?
May 11 19:46:33 <lcuk> oh, hi btw
May 11 19:46:38 <frals> evening ;)
May 11 19:46:42 <hawai`i> We've told you numerous times, leave it charging and report back tomorrow.
May 11 19:47:09 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: flashing mode is basically nolo making contact with flasher. this may be blocked by the usb stack at times, hence 'u'
May 11 19:47:15 <Stskeeps> which switches to another USB ID initially
May 11 19:47:26 <Stskeeps> you may need to rmmod phonet or the likes from your linux install
May 11 19:47:29 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: Nolo?
May 11 19:47:35 <hawai`i> iPeter-: the bootloader.
May 11 19:48:13 <ShadowJK> I wonder if there's any way to distinguish flasher missing the window for flashing, and device refusing to accept flashing due to battery not being full
May 11 19:48:17 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: Can you give steps what to do now? :<
May 11 19:48:51 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: i vote going for a walk
May 11 19:49:17 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: I have keep walking around this home and smashing stuff.. so after that? :D
May 11 19:49:26 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: cleaning up, obviously
May 11 19:49:31 <iPeter-> Done
May 11 19:49:41 <Stskeeps> this isn't a support channel, i'm helping you because i'm nice - so just listen to me and do as i say :P
May 11 19:50:08 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: I know but this channel is my only hope. I hate forums, it takes time to ppl answer etc.
May 11 19:50:26 <lcuk> we know Stskeeps said that mockingly, but you know he was gremacing and baring his teeth whilst he typed ;)
May 11 19:50:46 <lcuk> iPeter-, it takes time for people to answer here
May 11 19:50:50 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: And its good to have a nice guy on this channell. Im just nervous for that did i brick my device complelty
May 11 19:51:18 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: i have done obscene things to my n900 and n8x0 and i have never successfully bricked it.
May 11 19:51:37 <chadi> scartchbox installation stops on 4/10
May 11 19:52:21 <omar> chadi, the date?
May 11 19:52:34 <chadi> omar: nope, the step
May 11 19:52:57 <chadi> while trying to install scratchbox with the SDK
May 11 19:53:16 * DocScrutinizer51 suggests using different usb port on host. different usb cable. different host pc
May 11 19:53:19 <chadi> tried removing scratchbox-*, then installing it again, also stuck on the same place
May 11 19:53:21 <crashanddie> iPeter-: reality check, it takes people time to answer here as well, so respect their answers
May 11 19:53:25 <DocScrutinizer51> different moon phase
May 11 19:53:51 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer51, lol yeah ive had that
May 11 19:53:55 <lcuk> i just reboot laptop and meh
May 11 19:54:31 <iPeter-> crashanddie: Yeah, but forums are slower :p
May 11 19:54:40 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: Yeah, but im master of bricking stuff :D
May 11 19:55:31 <omar> chadi i think i was having errors installing it too but managed to get through can you show me the error it gives you?
May 11 19:55:32 <Shapeshifter> ohnice, opera
May 11 19:55:35 * Shapeshifter tries
May 11 19:56:15 <chadi> omar the problem is that I do not remember, and I do not have enough download quota to start it again :/
May 11 19:57:16 <omar> chadi oh, that doesn't really help me help you then :P
May 11 19:57:16 <alterego> Shapeshifter: it's pretty sleek. When it has Flash I think I'll use it as my primary browser.
May 11 19:57:33 <chadi> it stops after it';s done running apt-get update for ARMEL and i386 and installing the packages
May 11 19:58:02 <chadi> while it's installing the packages, a problem occurs
May 11 19:58:55 <alterego> chadi: did you do 'fakeroot apt-get update' ?
May 11 19:59:26 <alterego> Sorry, 'fakeroot apt-get upgrade' ///
May 11 19:59:28 <Trewas> opera seems otherwise nice, but sadly it uses so small fonts by default that zooming is needed to read anything, and that gets annoying fast
May 11 19:59:30 <alterego> ...
May 11 19:59:38 <chadi> alterego the installation did that
May 11 19:59:55 <alterego> Trewas: admittedly microb's zooming is by far better.
May 11 20:00:04 <chadi> alterego I used a python script, that launches a KDE GUI window that does everything
May 11 20:00:06 <Shapeshifter> alterego: I hope it's optified?
May 11 20:00:18 <alterego> Shapeshifter: yes, it is :)
May 11 20:00:32 <alterego> Shapeshifter: realy good quality application for an "Alpha"
May 11 20:00:42 <Shapeshifter> alterego: I guess except the power management bit
May 11 20:01:32 <alterego> Well, I've not really tested it as faras power management is concerned. Not usually a problem with me I don't tend to leave windows open.
May 11 20:02:45 <Shapeshifter> man... why does IO always lock the n900?
May 11 20:02:46 <omar> chadi, so you're using the GUI installer? can you try doing it manually instead? it's not that difficult ;)
May 11 20:03:12 <lcuk> omar, yeah like its easy putting bamboo under your own fingernails
May 11 20:03:16 <Shapeshifter> can't do anything that even just touches the memory without hickups or complete locks depending on what I do.
May 11 20:03:19 <Shapeshifter> sad.
May 11 20:03:28 <omar> lcuk wat!
May 11 20:03:37 <chadi> omar will do that. any guide?
May 11 20:03:40 <MohammadAG> OMFG OMFG
May 11 20:03:43 <MohammadAG> IT WORKS!
May 11 20:03:48 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, IT WORKS!!!!
May 11 20:03:48 <omar> chadi,  yeah getting it for u
May 11 20:03:52 <Shapeshifter> MohammadAG: sounds good
May 11 20:03:55 <MohammadAG> partially, but it works!
May 11 20:03:57 <omar> salam ya MohammadAG, what works?
May 11 20:03:58 <Shapeshifter> MohammadAG: I guess some sort of usb host thing
May 11 20:04:01 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: ??
May 11 20:04:08 <hawai`i> MohammadAG: ?!
May 11 20:04:12 <MohammadAG> man mandb showed the manual
May 11 20:04:17 <MohammadAG> I overreacted, I know
May 11 20:04:18 <hawai`i> Oh god
May 11 20:04:18 <MohammadAG> XD
May 11 20:04:20 <DocScrutinizer> heh :-)
May 11 20:04:24 * hawai`i slaps MohammadAG 
May 11 20:04:39 <chadi> MohammadAG: congrats!!!
May 11 20:04:42 * chadi claps
May 11 20:04:49 * MohammadAG slaps, hawai`i 
May 11 20:04:51 <DocScrutinizer> and I thought we finally managed to teach 1+1=2 to SoC :-P
May 11 20:04:54 <omar> chadi: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution
May 11 20:04:59 <omar> wow that's a long url
May 11 20:05:04 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, 1+1=2?
May 11 20:05:16 <MohammadAG> I thought it = 11
May 11 20:05:17 <MohammadAG> :P
May 11 20:05:46 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, that's the BIG BUG in OMAP silicon - it is as wrong as you are
May 11 20:05:55 <chadi> omar thank you :)
May 11 20:06:17 <mece> heheyy this was cool: mkcd () { mkdir -p "$*"; cd "$*" }
May 11 20:06:20 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, lol
May 11 20:06:34 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: and device still boots? or have you messed up messybox initscripts?
May 11 20:06:37 <MohammadAG> (seriously?)
May 11 20:06:47 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, haven't touched it
May 11 20:07:04 <DocScrutinizer> messybox? not touched? a pity
May 11 20:07:30 <MohammadAG> lol
May 11 20:07:36 <MohammadAG> something baffles me though
May 11 20:07:40 <MohammadAG> not all manuals work
May 11 20:07:50 <DocScrutinizer> that's strange indeed
May 11 20:07:53 <MohammadAG> man mandb works, man apt doesn't
May 11 20:08:06 <MohammadAG> Nokia-N900:~# man apt-get
May 11 20:08:06 <MohammadAG> No manual entry for apt-get
May 11 20:08:11 <DocScrutinizer> probably you got no manfile for apt?
May 11 20:08:39 <MohammadAG> "It uses a Berkeley DB database in place of the traditional flat-text whatis databases"
May 11 20:08:56 <DocScrutinizer> eeeek
May 11 20:09:01 <DocScrutinizer> /usr/share/man/man6/wtf.6.gz
May 11 20:09:15 <DocScrutinizer> or plain WTF?
May 11 20:09:55 <DocScrutinizer> berkley DB - eeeeeew
May 11 20:10:34 <ShadowJK> docpurge?
May 11 20:10:43 <Shapeshifter> alterego: well it "works" sorta but it hangs a lot and is unresponsive at times
May 11 20:10:47 <DocScrutinizer> what's with docpurge???
May 11 20:11:10 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: I got new battery
May 11 20:11:15 <DocScrutinizer> docpurge is a brainfuck, for all that bothers me
May 11 20:11:16 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: So what to do now
May 11 20:11:32 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: try to flash, obviously
May 11 20:11:35 <MohammadAG> what's docpurge?
May 11 20:11:41 <ShadowJK> Shapeshifter, because IO to the emmc is fucking slow :D
May 11 20:11:51 <DocScrutinizer> purges manpages out of pkgs
May 11 20:11:51 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: "Suitable USB device not found, waiting"
May 11 20:12:02 <hawai`i> o m f g
May 11 20:12:02 <DocScrutinizer> aiui
May 11 20:12:05 <MohammadAG> lol what good is that
May 11 20:12:14 <Shapeshifter> ShadowJK: but why does that lock all non-IO related stuff? or, if there might still be IO related stuff, why's there no 20% reserve for "popular" processes like task manager etc.
May 11 20:12:18 <MohammadAG> iPeter-, pop out the battery, connect the cable, then pop it back in
May 11 20:12:19 <Stskeeps> iPeter-: does the computer notice it in dmesg
May 11 20:12:19 <Stskeeps> ?
May 11 20:12:33 <MohammadAG> while the command is running
May 11 20:12:37 <MohammadAG> /waiting
May 11 20:12:49 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: how do i see it, what command? :S
May 11 20:12:59 <MohammadAG> dmesg ...
May 11 20:13:12 <Shapeshifter> alterego: turbo mode seems to slow it down significantly
May 11 20:13:34 <Shapeshifter> alterego: though once a page is fully loaded I like it better then microb
May 11 20:13:39 <Shapeshifter> snappier and nicer layout
May 11 20:14:07 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: Yea it gives something to here
May 11 20:14:27 <Shapeshifter> alterego: but the zooming isn't intelligent
May 11 20:14:35 <Shapeshifter> which actually surprises me. I'd expect that from opera
May 11 20:14:40 <alterego> Shapeshifter: exactly, I much prefer microb's zooming.
May 11 20:15:14 <Shapeshifter> alterego: well microb zooming is smart, while this is not. but microb always flickers white and is stuttery and slow when zooming
May 11 20:15:17 <ShadowJK> Shapeshifter, swap, opt, home and MyDocs all on the same device.. database write to home blocks swap and opt (where your app is)..
May 11 20:15:25 <hawai`i> Zooming has been brought to their attention.
May 11 20:15:44 <Shapeshifter> ShadowJK: but task manager etc are also slow. basically, everything is slow, once emmc is accessed
May 11 20:16:34 <iPeter-> Stskeeps: "Usb 1-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and adress 69" "configuration #1 chonesn from 1 choise" "Usb disconnect, adress 69"
May 11 20:16:54 <ShadowJK> It's hard to prioritize the task manager
May 11 20:17:10 <ShadowJK> the dependency chain is monstrous
May 11 20:17:21 <Shapeshifter> portrait mode doesn't seem to work (though I couldn't care less)
May 11 20:17:47 <MohammadAG> Shapeshifter, it does work
May 11 20:17:55 <lcuk> iPeter-, reboot your laptop
May 11 20:18:05 <MohammadAG> if only we can get rid of the maemo bar on top
May 11 20:18:07 <ShadowJK> isolated, small and predictable things can be locked in memory
May 11 20:18:30 <ShadowJK> though that reduces available memory for other stuff
May 11 20:18:55 <Shapeshifter> MohammadAG: mh. well I've set it to portrait in the settings and it doesn't work. auto neither.
May 11 20:19:15 <MohammadAG> works for me on auto
May 11 20:20:07 <SpeedEvil> Sometimes I wonder if I wouldn't simply prefer a nice text list of windows.
May 11 20:20:17 <Shapeshifter> ShadowJK: is it just the memory or also the bus? does a "fast" microsd card make things better or even worse?
May 11 20:20:42 <SpeedEvil> The SD and the onenand or the emmc do not greatly seem to contend with each other
May 11 20:20:53 <MohammadAG> http://i44.tinypic.com/9abyme.jpg man-db :)
May 11 20:21:08 <Shapeshifter> MohammadAG: yay
May 11 20:21:13 <ShadowJK> Shapeshifter, "fast" is relative. If you double the speed of something that's super-super-slow, it's still super-slow :)
May 11 20:21:16 <SpeedEvil> That is - you get - with a fast SD - ~30 meg of read from onenand and SD or MMC or SD and MMC and SD at once
May 11 20:21:32 <MohammadAG> now I need to find a way to change the location of the man pages *without* symlinking
May 11 20:21:34 <ShadowJK> What would really help is 20 man-years of kernel coders.
May 11 20:21:42 <SpeedEvil> Try to read all three - and it starts to fall over.
May 11 20:22:07 <Shapeshifter> SpeedEvil: mhm
May 11 20:22:10 <Shapeshifter> a pity
May 11 20:22:20 <SpeedEvil> ?
May 11 20:22:26 <Shapeshifter> I'd easily pay 50 bucks more for faster access
May 11 20:22:34 <SpeedEvil> 30 meg/second is quite reasonable IMO.
May 11 20:22:35 <Shapeshifter> I mean, I guess it's technically possible?
May 11 20:22:58 <SpeedEvil> I was looking at it from the perspective of booting from suspend to 'disk'
May 11 20:23:25 <ShadowJK> Unfortunately they don't make onenand that big or as cheap as emmc :(
May 11 20:23:39 <SpeedEvil> Onenand is no faster.
May 11 20:23:45 <ShadowJK> Not raw speed, no
May 11 20:23:45 <SpeedEvil> At least for bulk read.
May 11 20:23:57 <SpeedEvil> I have done no tests on random write
May 11 20:24:01 <ShadowJK> But lack of bulk speed isn't what Shapeshifter is hitting :)
May 11 20:24:28 <SpeedEvil> I wish that there was an SD mode 'get out of my way - just be a dumb NAND controller
May 11 20:24:34 <ShadowJK> yeah
May 11 20:24:38 <Shapeshifter> mh. well I have special demands anyway. I could live with say, 8gb
May 11 20:24:39 <ShadowJK> xd is like that
May 11 20:24:41 <Shapeshifter> but faster
May 11 20:24:45 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: What is it?
May 11 20:24:53 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: I missed - what are you moaning about?
May 11 20:25:05 <Shapeshifter> SpeedEvil: full locks when IO is doing something
May 11 20:25:21 <Shapeshifter> SpeedEvil: i.e. not even task switching or anything really, if e.g. apt-worker is doing something
May 11 20:25:43 * GAN900 loves how connection migration pegs the CPU
May 11 20:25:56 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: Ah.
May 11 20:25:57 <ShadowJK> GAN900, does it peg CPU or IO?
May 11 20:26:07 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: I suspect some fraction of that is swap ickyness
May 11 20:26:09 * ShadowJK has many times noticed a few megabytes of swapin activity :)
May 11 20:26:13 <Shapeshifter> alterego: scrolling in opera is so smooth when the page is fully loaded and not much happening in background
May 11 20:26:22 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: The swap engine not knowing how to swap properly.
May 11 20:26:42 <GAN900> ShadowJK, dunno.
May 11 20:26:44 <SpeedEvil> (as in - you always - always - write linear blocks, unless you can't avoid it)
May 11 20:26:53 <ShadowJK> same thing for the filesystems
May 11 20:27:01 <SpeedEvil> yes
May 11 20:27:30 <ShadowJK> like, when I watch youtube in browser, the flash plugin manages to bring the I/O load on the emmc to about 50-75% with just ~75 kbyte/s of traffic
May 11 20:27:37 <ShadowJK> and youtube stutters
May 11 20:30:06 <ShadowJK> Some large kernel efforts... OR, some more RAM to gloss over and try hide the real issue with locking "system"/preinstalled stuff in ram..
May 11 20:30:46 <Shapeshifter> mh. maybe the whole I/O should use a smart scheduler that only accesses the emmc when idling. e.g. if I close microb, there's some stuttery because of I/O. Maybe it should just remember my instruciton to close it, appear as if it had closed it while all the I/O related stuff microb actually wants to do is queued
May 11 20:31:19 <SpeedEvil> In general - the stuff isn't too bad in terms of RAM footprint.
May 11 20:31:37 <SpeedEvil> The one major sticky-out annoyance I saw was 'worldcock' - which is massive for what it does
May 11 20:31:37 <Shapeshifter> and always give the GUI highest priority. I know in the end stuf might even execute slower but the feeling is incredibly important imo.
May 11 20:31:44 <ShadowJK> Sometimes the stutter is caused by the code to handle the close button event being located on emmc and needing to be loaded in :-)
May 11 20:32:10 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure why it stays locked in RAM all the time - is it doing the toolbar clock?
May 11 20:32:16 <ShadowJK> I think it's almost impossible to properly prioritize "GUI" without building in a ticking timebomb in the process..
May 11 20:32:32 <Shapeshifter> ticking timebomb?
May 11 20:33:34 <Shapeshifter> oh and at the same time - which is really annyoing - the device seems to queue touchscreen and keyboard events and execute them in order. as in, you hit something twice thinking you might not have hit it hard enough because it's still doing nothing (because of IO) and then you land somewhere else
May 11 20:33:49 <iPeter-> i did boot up my laptop, whats now lcuk
May 11 20:33:58 <Shapeshifter> I've run some random app in "more" at least 10 times already because of this. tapping on "more" once with nothing happening, and then tapping again
May 11 20:33:59 <ShadowJK> You'd have to prioritize the stuff that draws everything. But if you do that, some non-prioritized task can tell it bad things, and the GUI drawing thingy then has license to kill by hogging up everything
May 11 20:34:01 <iPeter-> lcuk: Still doesnt get to flash mode
May 11 20:34:33 <ShadowJK> So you'd need 50 man-years of re-engineering there :)
May 11 20:34:35 <Shapeshifter> ShadowJK: yeah it would be difficult. But I guess the iphone is pulling off stuff like that
May 11 20:35:07 <ShadowJK> iphone basically limits itself to available ram
May 11 20:35:31 <lcuk> iPeter-, ok, you did already try "take battery out, plug in usb, start flasher, wait for it to show 'device not found', then plug battery into n900"
May 11 20:36:21 <ShadowJK> Alot of the apps suffer from fsync+ext3 disease :)
May 11 20:36:55 * ShadowJK blames sqlite and waits for someone to say it's "not a problem" "when used correctly"
May 11 20:37:01 <ShadowJK> but that's black magic :D
May 11 20:37:33 * Shapeshifter really likes sqlite
May 11 20:37:44 <Shapeshifter> but never used it on a mobile/limited ressource device
May 11 20:38:17 <ShadowJK> It can do silly things to I/O throughput
May 11 20:38:30 <Stskeeps> i continued the 3d accelerator thread on N8x0 at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=654109
May 11 20:38:49 <Stskeeps> am i completely daft or does it just look like we need to implement sending frames to the lcd controller?
May 11 20:38:58 <ShadowJK> Imagine 1 sec per insertion or whatever you people do with these database things
May 11 20:39:36 * ptl bitched and moaned in tmo. Ahhh... Much better!
May 11 20:39:44 <woglinde> stskeeps what is th status now?
May 11 20:40:36 <Stskeeps> woglinde: well, see the thread
May 11 20:40:51 <Stskeeps> the current status is that frames get stuck and never makes it past first frame, for good reason :)
May 11 20:40:56 <Stskeeps> (there's no vsync irq)
May 11 20:40:57 <Shapeshifter> woglinde: ah, it's you. I wrote to the nokia guy about curl and he said he's not working on fremantle anymore and that basically I need to port my own package
May 11 20:41:20 <Shapeshifter> woglinde: in the end I settled on learning how to use wget for my purposes...
May 11 20:42:02 <woglinde> shapeshifter lol
May 11 20:42:14 <woglinde> yoi could take over the package
May 11 20:43:00 <dotblank> I thought you couldn't run x appliactions under arm scratchbox?
May 11 20:43:03 <Shapeshifter> woglinde: mh. basically taking something from here http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/c/curl/ and changing it so that the curl binary also gets built and included?
May 11 20:43:13 <iPeter-> lcuk: Now i got it to flash
May 11 20:43:21 <iPeter-> what should i do after flashing
May 11 20:43:23 <dotblank> But it works for me
May 11 20:43:34 <lcuk> iPeter-, so that method i just said worked cleanly?
May 11 20:43:44 <Shapeshifter> woglinde: oh and I think you packaged festival? it has some odd unmet dependencies like usermod or something like that
May 11 20:43:44 <iPeter-> no, changed again battery
May 11 20:43:57 <lcuk> changed?
May 11 20:44:12 <iPeter-> Yeah, my m8 came with loaded battery
May 11 20:44:14 <iPeter-> fully loaded
May 11 20:44:52 <lcuk> cool, so they are giving away free phones with spare batteries now
May 11 20:45:22 <ds3> how many magnets are there on the N900?
May 11 20:45:28 <hawai`i> 3
May 11 20:45:43 <ds3> one is for the camera door, right? where are the other 2?
May 11 20:45:55 <SpeedEvil> bomb bay door.
May 11 20:45:56 <ds3> trying to see where I can tack a compass on there
May 11 20:45:58 <SpeedEvil> And pod bay.
May 11 20:46:03 <hawai`i> Haha
May 11 20:46:06 <iPeter-> lcuk: So now should i erase some emmc or what was it?
May 11 20:46:08 <hawai`i> One is on the kick stand.
May 11 20:46:16 <lcuk> iPeter-, boot it up
May 11 20:46:18 <lcuk> it should be ok?
May 11 20:46:19 <ShadowJK> keylock button and slide, i think?
May 11 20:46:25 <iPeter-> lcuk: It booted up
May 11 20:46:27 <iPeter-> and works
May 11 20:46:27 <ds3> is the kick stand also the one that is for the camera door?
May 11 20:46:32 <hawai`i> No.
May 11 20:46:34 <lcuk> woo
May 11 20:46:36 <hawai`i> The kickstand one is not active.
May 11 20:46:38 <lcuk> so have fun
May 11 20:46:42 <hawai`i> It just keeps the kick stand for flopping out.
May 11 20:46:48 <SpeedEvil> ds3: There are six ESD protected GPIO lines in a nice socket on the SD.
May 11 20:46:50 <ds3> ah
May 11 20:46:50 <ShadowJK> hawai`i, eh? it's used for detecting cover presence
May 11 20:47:02 <ShadowJK> without it, microsd doesn't work, because n900 thinks you removed the cover
May 11 20:47:06 <hawai`i> ShadowJK: AFIAK, that's a different magnet.
May 11 20:47:14 <ds3> SpeedEvil: I just want to physically mount it and communicate back with bluetooth
May 11 20:47:19 <ShadowJK> looked one and the same to me :)
May 11 20:47:20 <SpeedEvil> ds3: ah
May 11 20:47:31 <SpeedEvil> ds3: I suggest duct tape.
May 11 20:47:43 <SpeedEvil> ds3: have you actually seen any bluetooth compass?
May 11 20:47:46 <hawai`i> ds3: by tehe 3.5mm is probably the best spot.
May 11 20:47:55 <ds3> SpeedEvil: I can fabricate a plastic spring peice to grip
May 11 20:48:15 <DocScrutinizer> there's 2 magnets: 1 for slide, 1 for kickstand/backlid-detect
May 11 20:48:17 <ds3> SpeedEvil: no, but that's easy enough to solve... you can throw one together using off the shelf parts and a little coding
May 11 20:48:32 <SpeedEvil> ds3: Sure - it's not going to be very small though.
May 11 20:48:55 <ds3> SpeedEvil: match box size with little to no work for starters
May 11 20:49:17 <SpeedEvil> ds3: Sorry - I've been thinking about something _way_ smaller
May 11 20:49:19 <ds3> probally can cut that thickness by 1/2 with a little work
May 11 20:49:29 <ds3> SpeedEvil: give me a size reference for what you have in mind
May 11 20:49:56 <SpeedEvil> ds3: Ideally fits in the microSD slot. But that's not possible without are die.
May 11 20:50:08 <SpeedEvil> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=961876 - fun micro stuff.
May 11 20:50:12 <SpeedEvil> bare die
May 11 20:50:34 <lcuk> http://www.magneticsensors.com/hmc5843.htm
May 11 20:50:36 <ds3> SpeedEvil: for GPIO access, it is doable
May 11 20:50:42 <lcuk> is the most realistic one afaik
May 11 20:50:46 <ds3> but I want my SDIO slot
May 11 20:50:52 <SpeedEvil> ds3: I mean - the entire device fitting in the microSD
May 11 20:51:00 <ds3> SpeedEvil: yes, I mean that too
May 11 20:51:09 <SpeedEvil> ds3: It's not doable.
May 11 20:51:25 <SpeedEvil> ds3: You can't get any compass parts that are under 0.8mm thick.
May 11 20:51:53 <ds3> Hmmmm
May 11 20:52:04 <ds3> is 0.8mm the max thick for uSD?
May 11 20:52:20 <SpeedEvil> it's around 1.1mm or so - but you need a PCV too
May 11 20:52:23 <SpeedEvil> PCB
May 11 20:52:26 <SpeedEvil> IIRC
May 11 20:52:26 <lcuk> ds3, see the link i gave
May 11 20:52:46 <ds3> lcuk: looking at it... 1.3  isn't too horrible
May 11 20:53:11 <ds3> SpeedEvil: the PCB can be worked around with unconventional assembly
May 11 20:53:19 <SpeedEvil> ds3: Sure.
May 11 20:53:35 <ds3> something like a PCB with a hole in the middle so the chip is the entire thickness
May 11 20:53:47 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: tip, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=654109
May 11 20:53:56 <SpeedEvil> 1.3mm is the thickness of the thick bit
May 11 20:53:59 <SpeedEvil> IIRC
May 11 20:54:01 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: (how would i be a collector of interesting links in practice?
May 11 20:54:14 <SpeedEvil> The bulk of the microsd is much thinner
May 11 20:54:16 <ds3> interesting but I need/want the slot for storage
May 11 20:54:35 <lcuk> Stskeeps, it woud be good to see "hot threads" on tmo
May 11 20:54:45 <lcuk> the ones that are gaining thanks at fastest rate
May 11 20:54:53 <Stskeeps> yeah
May 11 20:54:54 <lcuk> then news articles could come from there
May 11 20:54:55 <ds3> I was thinking more of a little pd that clips on somewhere away fromthe magnets
May 11 20:56:02 <woglinde> good nite
May 11 20:56:12 <lcuk> hello and gnite woglinde \o
May 11 20:57:09 <mikki-kun> hm... does anybody know here splinter cell?
May 11 20:58:08 <mikki-kun> cause i think i'll try modding my n900 so that it would would look like the OPSAT from the game/book
May 11 20:58:10 <ds3> SpeedEvil: what's  your primary objection to an external pod?
May 11 20:59:02 <lcuk> mikki-kun, photos!
May 11 20:59:21 <SpeedEvil> ds3: Clip on stuff is messy. It at best adds ulk to the phone. In practuice, it's going to also make it harder to hold in some orientations, and ...
May 11 21:00:03 <crashanddie> adds ulk?
May 11 21:00:13 <crashanddie> in practuice?
May 11 21:00:18 <crashanddie> SpeedEvil: have you been drinking?
May 11 21:00:19 <SpeedEvil> bulk
May 11 21:00:21 <SpeedEvil> practice
May 11 21:00:32 <SpeedEvil> No. I have a headache, and this keyboard isn't great.
May 11 21:00:34 <ds3> SpeedEvil: hmmm what kind of usage are you envisioning for a compass on there?
May 11 21:00:38 <SpeedEvil> I have my eyses whit.
May 11 21:00:43 <SpeedEvil> eyes shut
May 11 21:00:53 <SpeedEvil> ds3: augmented reality
May 11 21:01:18 <ds3> SpeedEvil: for that purpose, the compass can be mounted anywhere, including under a hat
May 11 21:01:41 <SpeedEvil> ds3: For a lot of the stuff, you need to know the orientation of the n900
May 11 21:01:54 <SpeedEvil> also - personally - I want it for adding a orientaiton to photos
May 11 21:02:10 <mikki-kun> lcuk: the opsat is the device on the arm http://www.the-nextlevel.com/features/events/pandora-tomorrow-world-premiere/sam-fisher.jpg
May 11 21:02:33 <MohammadAG> got around the docpurge problem :D
May 11 21:02:46 <MohammadAG> now to recompile all packages so that they install manual pages :P
May 11 21:03:01 <MohammadAG> or just make a deb with Ubuntu man pages
May 11 21:03:25 <mikki-kun> lcuk: i know nothing that spectacular, but maybe for some costume that would be badass to have your N900 working as an opsat :D but for me it's just the challenge i am up to
May 11 21:04:08 <ds3> SpeedEvil: eh? how so?
May 11 21:04:31 <ds3> I am looking at this for orienteering (Map related stuff)
May 11 21:04:36 <SpeedEvil> ds3: geotag has xyz
May 11 21:04:49 <SpeedEvil> ds3: It does not have pointing
May 11 21:05:22 <SpeedEvil> (though of cours ewith the accel, if there is a celestial body in vieew, you can derive orientation
May 11 21:05:29 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: toldya docpurge is kinda brainfuck
May 11 21:06:14 <ds3> SpeedEvil: the compass is to augment geotagging
May 11 21:06:27 * DocScrutinizer51 is missing roundabout 500 *-doc pkgs
May 11 21:06:32 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, it can purge all it wants
May 11 21:06:32 <ds3> I am thinking throwing together something so I can match up features on a topo map with what I am seeing
May 11 21:06:37 <MohammadAG> it will purge an empty dir
May 11 21:06:38 <MohammadAG> XD
May 11 21:07:08 <ds3> so if I can sight in a feature, I have a rough pie shaped peice centered at my GPS location
May 11 21:07:24 <Kegetys> hmm, Gish (in that humble indie games bundle) is promised to go open source soon, I hope someone ports it to N900 ;)
May 11 21:07:31 <ds3> and if I can read the angle of my sighting, I can get a rough elevation estimate
May 11 21:07:55 <SpeedEvil> ds3: Are you aware of srtm?
May 11 21:08:22 <ds3> SpeedEvil: no
May 11 21:08:42 <MohammadAG> ~ping
May 11 21:08:42 <infobot> ~pong
May 11 21:08:56 <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRTM
May 11 21:09:13 <SpeedEvil> ~90m resolution digital heightfield over the glove - 30m over america
May 11 21:09:22 <SpeedEvil> the USA that is
May 11 21:09:27 <SpeedEvil> Glove
May 11 21:09:28 <ds3> and ? not sure how this relates
May 11 21:09:30 <SpeedEvil> Globe
May 11 21:09:55 <SpeedEvil> ds3: Digital heightfield - map to horizon
May 11 21:10:38 <ds3> SpeedEvil: sounds complicated... I was hoping to dice up a scanned USGS topo map
May 11 21:12:25 <SpeedEvil> Finding the horizon from a lat/lon pointfield is quite easy.
May 11 21:12:38 <SpeedEvil> Also - wander over to #osm over on irc.oftc.net
May 11 21:12:54 <MohammadAG> bah, USB networking isn't working
May 11 21:13:02 <SpeedEvil> IIRC there are some nice heightfield datasets of the USA that are much more accurate than one every 30m
May 11 21:13:39 <ds3> it is still more complex then grabbing a scanned USGS topo map
May 11 21:14:19 <ds3> that data is basically a super accurate version of the USGS DEM data
May 11 21:16:22 <SpeedEvil> I don't see how you're going to extract hte heightfield from a scanned map
May 11 21:16:43 <ds3> I don't... it is a topo map and that is a manual process
May 11 21:16:52 <SpeedEvil> ah
May 11 21:17:07 <ds3> this is a learning process for navigation, not an attempt at automated feature location
May 11 21:17:11 <SpeedEvil> I was assuming you wanted it automagic.
May 11 21:17:23 <ds3> don't have the skills or time to do that
May 11 21:18:06 <ds3> so for what I want, a electronic compass that talks back via bluetooth is sufficient
May 11 21:18:32 <ds3> the N900's main goal is to be usable in sunlight
May 11 21:23:37 <luke-jr> ds3: that's easy, just use a reflective display :)
May 11 21:23:44 <luke-jr> like the GameBoy Color had
May 11 21:23:47 <ds3> luke-jr: got a source for them cheap? :D
May 11 21:23:57 <luke-jr> dunno
May 11 21:24:04 <luke-jr> the problem with them is you can't use a backlight
May 11 21:24:08 <luke-jr> so no good in the dark
May 11 21:24:34 <luke-jr> (probably far better battery life I bet)
May 11 21:25:10 <DocScrutinizer51> hooray  http://library.maemodocs.nokia.com/fremantle/index.jsp is completely fubar - unusable on microB
May 11 21:25:40 <DocScrutinizer51> epic fail
May 11 21:29:30 <Noma> is there an app or a script for n900 to make the vibration go off when the phone is on a table? it's annoying when it vibrates there
May 11 21:29:59 <DocScrutinizer51> turn phone face down
May 11 21:35:15 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. Revisionism.
May 11 21:35:24 <SpeedEvil> A survey as part of a n900 owners study.
May 11 21:35:40 <SpeedEvil>           Why did you buy an N900 device?
May 11 21:35:49 <crashanddie> SpeedEvil: are the results up?
May 11 21:36:00 <SpeedEvil> C) I’ve been looking forward to the  first Maemo device
May 11 21:36:07 <SpeedEvil> no
May 11 21:36:09 <omar> where's this survey?
May 11 21:36:11 <crashanddie> SpeedEvil: or are you just going through the thing now?
May 11 21:36:15 <omar> i'd like to take a gander
May 11 21:36:25 <crashanddie> SpeedEvil: there's a bunch of stupid stuff in there, seriously
May 11 21:36:41 <SpeedEvil> crashanddie: I'm going through it now.
May 11 21:36:59 <SpeedEvil> omar: It's an invitation only survey. I got invited because I'm such a shining intellect.
May 11 21:37:04 <SpeedEvil> Or someone rolled a dice.
May 11 21:37:09 <SpeedEvil> I prefer to believe the former.
May 11 21:37:50 <omar> SpeedEvil, regardless of why you got invited i think the former is true ;)
May 11 21:38:58 <DocScrutinizer51> SpeedEvil: they thought you got too much spare time and also are easy to abuse since you accepted the big brother spyware as well
May 11 21:39:37 <SpeedEvil> :)
May 11 21:40:24 <DocScrutinizer51> also they were impressed how much you were determined to get the N900
May 11 21:40:44 <SpeedEvil> Interestingly one of the features they mention as 'would you be interested in' - is iplayer/web tv
May 11 21:41:09 <DocScrutinizer51> and they planned revenge for your success on diet plan and weight loss which made them envy
May 11 21:41:24 <SpeedEvil> :)
May 11 21:44:57 <omar> SpeedEvil, you studied engineering? electrical?
May 11 21:45:10 <SpeedEvil> omar: Yes.
May 11 21:45:17 <omar> where at?
May 11 21:45:52 <SpeedEvil> omar: I have never studied it significantly formally, due to various reasons.
May 11 21:45:56 <SpeedEvil> Mainly health.
May 11 21:46:00 <omar> oh
May 11 21:46:14 <omar> lol i had health issues awhile ago caused me to fail two easy classes ;)
May 11 21:48:17 <crashanddie> warning kids, as omar is trying to tell us, wanking over 20 times a day is dangerous for your health and wellbeing
May 11 21:49:10 <omar> crashanddie, how rude! actually i was fasting for ramadan and wans't getting somethign in my diet.. also have a genetic condition called XLH
May 11 21:49:15 <SpeedEvil> crashanddie: What about the change in summer/winter time?
May 11 21:49:25 <ds3> for that, there is always a B&W LCD
May 11 21:50:16 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie is a clear expect on the subject
May 11 21:50:30 <Shapeshifter> mh. any clues what opera uses for it's gui? it's been qt on the desktop for a long time (and exclusively until recently) but does this mobile opera also use qt?
May 11 21:50:37 <GeneralAntilles> s/expect/expert
May 11 21:50:53 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, any problems with the repos? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52421
May 11 21:50:58 <Shapeshifter> animations are very fluid compared to usual maemo gtk stuff. similar or at least as good as the hyperui demo
May 11 21:52:12 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: I was a professional wanker during my student eyars
May 11 21:53:06 <omar> so now your libido crashanddie'd
May 11 21:54:10 <ShadowJK> is this opera in the repos?
May 11 21:54:20 <MohammadAG> it has a repo on its own
May 11 21:54:27 <ShadowJK> hm
May 11 21:54:38 <anselmolsm> hey guys, any news on that? http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/intelligent-date_picker/
May 11 21:54:42 <b-man> i'm testing it right now :)
May 11 21:54:59 <MohammadAG> http://get.opera.com/pub/.custom/campaign/labs/maemo/20100510/opera.install
May 11 21:55:14 <b-man> opera seems to have a few issues with image rendering, but everything else is nice :)]
May 11 21:55:19 <b-man> *:)
May 11 21:55:38 <MohammadAG> MicroB is suffice here :)
May 11 21:55:38 <Shapeshifter> it's incredibly smooth when scrolling
May 11 21:55:55 <MohammadAG> it was smooth on the N97 too
May 11 21:55:58 <b-man> indeed :)
May 11 21:56:02 <MohammadAG> liqbase beats it though :P
May 11 21:56:07 <Shapeshifter> and even with this kind of smoothness, they list "tearing when scrolling" on their known issues list
May 11 21:56:16 <Shapeshifter> I'd like to see that kind of perfectionism from nokia...
May 11 21:56:19 <Shapeshifter> regarding ui experience
May 11 21:56:22 <b-man> too bad it doesn't support flash yet - but i can deal with that
May 11 21:56:56 <MohammadAG> Shapeshifter, download liqcalendar and see how smooth that thing is
May 11 21:56:56 <crashanddie> Nokia have a wealth of issues they need to consider
May 11 21:57:04 * b-man loves the on-screen portrait/vertical virtual kyeboard
May 11 21:57:22 <crashanddie> liqbase or Opera can focus on one single issue for a couple of weeks if necessary
May 11 21:57:31 <Shapeshifter> MohammadAG: I wanted to install liqplayground ages ago but I always get dependency errors
May 11 21:57:49 <crashanddie> Shapeshifter: liqbase has nearly no dependencies
May 11 21:57:53 <b-man> hmm, a liqbase-based browser... that would be interesting ;)
May 11 21:57:56 <MohammadAG> Shapeshifter, works for me
May 11 21:58:09 <MohammadAG> b-man, would be epic!
May 11 22:00:27 <b-man> they also haven't implemented power management yet - so it will drain the battery :(
May 11 22:00:48 * b-man runs the acid3 test
May 11 22:00:49 <adnyxo> anyone here still use the n810
May 11 22:01:42 <Gizmokid2005> Stskeeps: can I make a deb from MADDE myself or not?
May 11 22:02:24 <Macer> anybody play vultures eye?
May 11 22:02:39 <Macer> i am going to try it out now. it says it is like diablo
May 11 22:02:39 <Shapeshifter> b-man: I wonder what that's supposed to mean though. An idle application will never drain any power.,
May 11 22:02:52 <Macer> wonder if they are lying :)
May 11 22:03:14 <SpeedEvil> Macer: I find the interface of vultures eye confusing, and prefer the console version of nethack.
May 11 22:04:00 <b-man> Shapeshifter: i think it's because they haven't implemented JIT in their javascript engine yet
May 11 22:04:12 <b-man> just a wild guess
May 11 22:04:12 <Macer> SpeedEvil: what kind of game is it?
May 11 22:04:24 <Macer> i mean.. does it look like crap?
May 11 22:05:01 <Macer> i want a good rts for my n900
May 11 22:05:09 <SpeedEvil> Macer: Think of a cross between chess and doom.
May 11 22:05:09 <Macer> like starcraft
May 11 22:05:10 <Shapeshifter> ah now I was able to install liqbase
May 11 22:05:13 <johnsq> Macer: never played nethack, go and play and we don't see you the next 1/2 year
May 11 22:05:15 <SpeedEvil> It is not a rts.
May 11 22:05:27 <Macer> ok
May 11 22:05:32 <Macer> let me try it out
May 11 22:05:33 <Shapeshifter> whoa, what on earth is it doing with the taskmanager preview??
May 11 22:05:45 <Shapeshifter> it's like a window into it. no "thumbnail"
May 11 22:05:56 <johnsq> Macer: freecraft �hm stratago
May 11 22:07:28 <SpeedEvil> telnet nethack.alt.org for online play
May 11 22:08:00 <b-man> acid3 test results: Microb: 94/100 Opera Mini: 93/100 Chromium: 100/100
May 11 22:08:43 <b-man> so opera is just behind microb in performance
May 11 22:09:02 <b-man> javascript-wise
May 11 22:09:10 * SpeedEvil questions the point of benchmarks
May 11 22:09:30 <Trewas> acid3 has nothing to do with performance, though
May 11 22:10:50 <Macer> freecraft?
May 11 22:11:00 <Macer> that game sucks
May 11 22:11:01 <Macer> haha
May 11 22:11:10 <Macer> vultures eye is crappy
May 11 22:11:28 <Macer> guess if you played nethack it is ok but to me it is garbage
May 11 22:12:48 <lbt> well, I've built the first maemo 'Extras' package (for i386) on the maemo.org OBS
May 11 22:12:55 <t_s_o> huh, opera on n800?
May 11 22:13:06 <timeless_mbp> t_s_o: ?
May 11 22:13:14 <t_s_o> http://labs.opera.com/news/2010/05/11/
May 11 22:13:15 <timeless_mbp> i think they're talking about opera for the n900
May 11 22:13:40 <timeless_mbp> "a browser developed internally"
May 11 22:13:42 * timeless_mbp ponders
May 11 22:15:15 <Macer> johnsq: ?
May 11 22:15:20 <t_s_o> interesting that they mention browser switchboard :)
May 11 22:15:20 <MohammadAG> ~opera
May 11 22:15:21 <infobot> from memory, opera is at http://www.opera.com or opera ends when the fat lady sings.
May 11 22:15:27 <MohammadAG> LOL
May 11 22:15:32 <MohammadAG> ~operamobile
May 11 22:15:37 <b-man> rofl
May 11 22:15:40 <MohammadAG> infobot, operamobile is http://labs.opera.com/news/2010/05/11/
May 11 22:15:41 <infobot> okay, MohammadAG
May 11 22:15:46 <ds3> ~netfront
May 11 22:16:23 <t_s_o> well here goes nothing
May 11 22:16:29 <timeless_mbp> so...
May 11 22:16:36 <timeless_mbp> why can't i install opera-mobile?
May 11 22:16:49 <MohammadAG> fremantle-1.2
May 11 22:16:56 <timeless_mbp> right
May 11 22:17:02 <MohammadAG> change the sources.list/hildon-application-manager.list file
May 11 22:17:06 <b-man> i have it in 1.1
May 11 22:17:14 <b-man> nvm
May 11 22:17:18 <MohammadAG> to be more exact change the fremantle-1.2 in the opera line in that file
May 11 22:17:27 <MohammadAG> b-man, he's running 1.2
May 11 22:17:35 <timeless_mbp> shouldn't i be able to set "distribution" in the ui to "fremantle" ?
May 11 22:18:23 <MohammadAG> 1.2 has some changes afaik
May 11 22:18:26 <MohammadAG> no idea about that
May 11 22:18:45 <MohammadAG> but after installing the 1.2 HAM package Khertan's repo didn't work too
May 11 22:18:52 <Macer> let me try ioquake
May 11 22:19:44 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: yeah, the ui works
May 11 22:19:44 <MohammadAG> that's an issue? The built-in on-screen keyboard is not supported. Use the physical keyboard or the on screen keyboard included with Opera Mobile.
May 11 22:20:31 <Macer> guess i will try openarena
May 11 22:20:37 <timeless_mbp> no need to muck w/ the sources.list files
May 11 22:20:50 <Macer> it will be interesting to see how the n900 handles a 3d shooter
May 11 22:21:13 <Macer> i guess you can connect ps3 controllers to it huh?
May 11 22:21:31 <Macer> what i would give for an n900 madden 10
May 11 22:21:35 <Macer> heh
May 11 22:22:06 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, tbh I hate HAM
May 11 22:25:20 <Lateralus> what provides tpsession.h?
May 11 22:25:39 <timeless_mbp> well
May 11 22:25:51 <timeless_mbp> opera gets mobile content and pans fast
May 11 22:25:56 <timeless_mbp> but mobile content is useless to me
May 11 22:26:38 * ShadowJK gets that on random sites with microb too
May 11 22:26:48 <timeless_mbp> really?
May 11 22:26:56 <ShadowJK> yeah
May 11 22:27:51 <ShadowJK> One site even pops up a "You're apparently using a cellphone. Would you like to switch to the mobile optimized site?"
May 11 22:28:02 <timeless_mbp> so, *that's* useful
May 11 22:28:28 <ShadowJK> And apparently if you're suspected of using a cellphone, you can't be trusted with cookie
May 11 22:28:54 <shinkamui> hey
May 11 22:28:56 <ShadowJK> so I get the question for every subpage and everytime i click a link on that site :D
May 11 22:29:07 <shinkamui> who uses conversations for chatting via IM services
May 11 22:29:25 <shinkamui> im wondering if there is a way to keep my contacts from running amuck
May 11 22:29:40 <shinkamui> I have like 200 IM contacts, which I don't need to see when I need to make a call
May 11 22:30:18 <shinkamui> is there a workaround for that? or is it just a matter of having to pull out the keyboard and starting to type out the name of the person Im looking for
May 11 22:31:35 <ShadowJK> opera mobile doesn't seem to read proxy settings.. :/
May 11 22:32:46 <ShadowJK> scrolling takes more effort
May 11 22:32:58 <ShadowJK> but it's fast and nice :)
May 11 22:35:02 <ShadowJK> argh
May 11 22:35:24 <ShadowJK> I keep waiting for the white flash
May 11 22:35:51 <ShadowJK> and when it doesn't come i think it's broken/hung
May 11 22:41:08 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
May 11 22:41:31 <timeless_mbp> hey, can you guys use fastflip on news.google w/ operamobile?
May 11 22:41:57 <timeless_mbp> for me it's virtually unusable
May 11 22:42:35 <ShadowJK> fastflip?
May 11 22:43:19 <ShadowJK> what's fastflip?
May 11 22:45:50 <ShadowJK> scrolling long pages is very painful in opera if that's what you mean :)
May 11 22:45:53 <Shapeshifter> liqbase does really weird stuff
May 11 22:48:01 * ShadowJK goes sleep
May 11 23:01:33 <b-man> this day is getting screwier and screwier, apparently we just had 2 tornadoes - one about 7 miles south of where i am and another about 10 miles west in the area from 'low top thunderstorms without any lightening' - one cut a 150-foot swath destroying two barns and a house, while another hasn't caused any damage so far :P
May 11 23:01:48 <SpeedEvil> Have you got your red shoes on?
May 11 23:01:53 <b-man> rofl
May 11 23:02:09 <asjWrk> b-man: where are you?
May 11 23:02:19 <b-man> northwest ohio
May 11 23:02:30 * asjWrk checks the month, may, oh yeah it's midwest tornado season :)
May 11 23:03:07 <asjWrk> b-man: when I lived out there was we had one touch down 6 miles north of us and cut a 22 mile swatch right up through a town
May 11 23:03:22 <b-man> damn
May 11 23:04:32 <asjWrk> tornado are so amazingly tight it's amazing, destroyed a house (not counting trailors here) on side of a road and doens't even damage one on the other side
May 11 23:04:51 <b-man> i saw a thinderstorm in South Dakota that spawned an F4 tornado
May 11 23:05:04 <lbt> night all
May 11 23:05:11 <asjWrk> b-man: sweet :)
May 11 23:05:14 <b-man> c ya lbt
May 11 23:05:48 <b-man> asjWrk: the form of the storm was amazing - perfect anvil head at 70,000 feet
May 11 23:05:57 <b-man> *76,000
May 11 23:06:19 <asjWrk> b-man: I love the look of the updraft side, it's amazing to see them
May 11 23:06:37 <b-man> asjWrk: indeed :)
May 11 23:06:52 * b-man takes a look outside
May 11 23:07:46 <pwnguin> meanwhile, in kansas
May 11 23:07:50 <pwnguin> it's nice out
May 11 23:07:54 <pwnguin> mwuhahaha
May 11 23:08:03 <asjWrk> pwnguin: just wait a few hours
May 11 23:08:24 <pwnguin> tornados travel backwards now?
May 11 23:08:30 <b-man> pwnguin: i think ohio and kansas switched places for the day lol
May 11 23:08:45 <asjWrk> pwnguin: I'm sure another line will form from somehere, it's spring
May 11 23:09:22 <ds3> b-man: was it coming toward you?
May 11 23:09:39 <b-man> yes
May 11 23:10:06 <b-man> me and my dad were going 90 to get away from the storm xD
May 11 23:10:14 <b-man> *90 mph
May 11 23:10:48 <ds3> hahah
May 11 23:11:04 <b-man> and the storm that spawned a tornado west of me is coming towards me right now lol
May 11 23:11:05 <ds3> wonder if running for a tornado is a valid excuse out of a speeding ticket ;)
May 11 23:11:14 <ds3> s/for/from/
May 11 23:11:15 <infobot> ds3 meant: wonder if running from a tornado is a valid excuse out of a speeding ticket ;)
May 11 23:11:16 <b-man> hehe
May 11 23:11:40 <asjWrk> what's the damn yum alternative, zipper or something? arg damn rpms
May 11 23:17:18 <Pillum> hey
May 11 23:17:20 <b-man> holy crap - a whole line of rotating thunderstorms just appeared out of nowhere
May 11 23:18:00 <Pillum> OMG!!! H0LY SH!T!!!! WHERE?!?!?
May 11 23:18:07 <b-man> rofl
May 11 23:18:25 <b-man> look at northewst ohio on weather.com
May 11 23:18:35 <Pillum> is PR1.1 out yet?
May 11 23:18:51 <Robot101> Pillum: yes! but you're probably waiting for PR1.2, which isn't...
May 11 23:19:09 <Pillum> no.....i meant pr1.1 !!
May 11 23:19:21 <Pillum> i dont want to get kicked :P
May 11 23:19:27 <Pillum> :)
May 11 23:20:17 <ds3> b-man: you're sounding like an episode of startrek ;)
May 11 23:20:31 <b-man> lol
May 11 23:20:48 <Pillum> only 300 posts left till release
May 11 23:24:53 <Pillum> hey walle
May 11 23:24:59 <Pillum> you wanna clean my room?
May 11 23:25:03 <b-man> 300^10
May 11 23:29:19 <asjWrk> b-man: no exactly huge...this your first year in NE-ohio? http://www.wunderground.com/radar/radblast.asp?ID=CLE&region=b4&lat=41.04239273&lon=-81.52004242&label=Akron%2c%20OH
May 11 23:33:31 <b-man> asjWrk: they're small, but have fairly strong rotation ;)
May 11 23:34:46 <b-man> or at least they did not too long ago
May 11 23:38:58 <b-man> here's an image of one of the tornados: http://wtol.images.worldnow.com/images/12465536_SS.jpg
May 11 23:39:19 <rokr1> hello all
May 11 23:40:04 <jacekowski> PR 1.2 released!!!
May 11 23:40:10 <b-man> http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=12465536
May 11 23:40:18 <rokr1> i am currently using N900 to speak to u guys
May 11 23:40:27 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, seriously...
May 11 23:40:27 <jacekowski> just kidding
May 11 23:40:30 <b-man> asjWrk ^^^ :)
May 11 23:40:36 <jacekowski> but i was expecting more reaction
May 11 23:40:42 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, even if it was released we wouldn't believe you
May 11 23:40:47 * SpeedEvil stabs jacekowski with a sharpened frozen beef sausage.
May 11 23:40:48 <MohammadAG> :P
May 11 23:41:02 <MohammadAG> ouch
May 11 23:41:04 <rokr1> u will be kicked thats more reaction
May 11 23:41:07 <jacekowski> i'm going to hack maemo.org
May 11 23:41:13 <asjWrk> b-man: NWS issues tornado warning at the drop of a hat dude :)
May 11 23:41:17 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, talk.maemo.org
May 11 23:41:18 <jacekowski> and link to fake 1.2 image
May 11 23:41:31 <SpeedEvil> Hack?
May 11 23:41:35 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, there are already links lol
May 11 23:41:35 <asjWrk> b-man: it's not like mother nature decided to scour ohio off the face of the planet today ;)
May 11 23:41:44 <SpeedEvil> Just post it on TMO as 'OFFICIAL NOKIA RELEASE'
May 11 23:41:50 <SpeedEvil> 99.9% of people would believe.
May 11 23:42:18 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: what?
May 11 23:42:21 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: Oh - register as NokiaUpdate
May 11 23:42:26 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, here you go, a fake link http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8_PR999.1OMGWTBBQ_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin
May 11 23:42:28 <MohammadAG> and it works
May 11 23:42:29 <rokr1> is there any way to send USSD
May 11 23:42:31 <rokr1> ?
May 11 23:42:36 <MohammadAG> ussd-widget, or pr1.2
May 11 23:42:44 <SpeedEvil> rokr1: look for ussd-widget
May 11 23:43:45 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/packages/view/ussd-widget/
May 11 23:45:15 <rokr1> USSD widget is in which repository
May 11 23:45:15 <rokr1> ?
May 11 23:45:15 <rokr1> extras or extras-testing or extras-devel
May 11 23:45:15 <rokr1> ?
May 11 23:45:42 <SpeedEvil> extras
May 11 23:46:10 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: i think i'll do it just to test how many people will download it
May 11 23:46:21 <SpeedEvil> Went to extras from devel on the 12th of april
May 11 23:46:32 <rokr1> okie back
May 11 23:46:38 <rokr1> USSD widget is in which repository
May 11 23:46:42 <rokr1> extras or extras-testing or extras-devel
May 11 23:46:45 <rokr1> ?
May 11 23:46:59 <asjWrk> I didn't have good luck with the ussd widget
May 11 23:47:30 <rokr1> how to free rootfs
May 11 23:47:31 <rokr1> ?
May 11 23:47:37 <rokr1> no space
May 11 23:48:12 <jacekowski> sudo rm -rf /
May 11 23:48:18 <jacekowski> that would clear all
May 11 23:48:21 <SpeedEvil> rokr1: How old are you.
May 11 23:48:22 <SpeedEvil> err
May 11 23:48:26 <SpeedEvil> how old is your install
May 11 23:48:28 <shinkamui> yes
May 11 23:48:30 <shinkamui> use that command
May 11 23:48:37 <shinkamui> that will give you 100% rootfs back
May 11 23:48:38 <shinkamui> ha ha ha
May 11 23:48:57 <SpeedEvil> If your unstall is very old, and you installed packages a long time ago - some of them may still be using up space on the root.
May 11 23:49:00 <rokr1> hey guys
May 11 23:49:08 <SpeedEvil> Also - disabling extras-devel will save several megabytes
May 11 23:49:11 <rokr1> me
May 11 23:49:16 <rokr1> 22
May 11 23:49:30 <jacekowski> are you a sexy blonde?
May 11 23:49:33 <tripzero> http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/60849
May 11 23:49:35 <SpeedEvil> rokr1: I meant - how old the install of the phone
May 11 23:49:36 <shinkamui> how to free rootfs
May 11 23:49:37 <shinkamui> lols
May 11 23:49:39 <jacekowski> horny sexy blonde?
May 11 23:49:43 <asjWrk> you guys are mean
May 11 23:49:57 <jacekowski> we are just being honest
May 11 23:50:02 <SpeedEvil> rokr1: Since maybe - febuary? Most installable package no longer use (much space on the rootfs
May 11 23:50:12 <SpeedEvil> rokr1: also - how much do you mean by not much space?
May 11 23:50:34 <SpeedEvil> shinkamui: Are you sometimes in ##electronics?
May 11 23:50:35 <jacekowski> well, why nobody came up with idea of using unionfs
May 11 23:50:36 <SpeedEvil> Oh - nvm
May 11 23:50:39 <SpeedEvil> it's not you
May 11 23:50:47 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: nokia is a non-union company.
May 11 23:51:08 <jacekowski> any other layered fs?
May 11 23:51:14 <jacekowski> non union layered fs
May 11 23:51:35 <SpeedEvil> Layered FS is way not needed.
May 11 23:51:40 <SpeedEvil> This was solved in 1970
May 11 23:51:43 <rokr1> just got N900
May 11 23:52:00 <SpeedEvil>  /usr is mounted after boot and contains all user programs
May 11 23:52:18 <rokr1> sorry got disconnected
May 11 23:53:07 <rokr1> so any good news for N900....?
May 11 23:53:35 <MohammadAG> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=654274&postcount=3 a PS3 emulator, wonder if it moves the bootloader to /dev/null to gain enough space
May 11 23:54:45 <rokr1> scummvm does it run windows games
May 11 23:54:47 <rokr1> ?
May 11 23:54:55 <shinkamui> YES
May 11 23:55:00 <shinkamui> scummvm runs windows games
May 11 23:55:34 <rokr1> only openGL or even directX...!?
May 11 23:55:40 <shinkamui> both!
May 11 23:55:50 <shinkamui> I was playing crysis on my N900 the other day
May 11 23:55:56 <shinkamui> hard wihtout a bluetooth keyboard and mouse though
May 11 23:56:01 <rokr1> come on now
May 11 23:56:16 <rokr1> lol
May 11 23:56:54 <SpeedEvil> rokr1: Sorry - what do you mean by good news?
May 11 23:57:17 <rokr1> firmware upgrade. ...?
May 11 23:57:46 <MohammadAG> The topic isn't a lie
May 12 00:00:53 <rokr1> i am waiting for neopwn
May 12 00:01:11 <rokr1> for it to be available
May 12 00:01:28 <rokr1> python-scapy is good
May 12 00:03:02 <SpeedEvil> I am waiting for USB host mode. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650333
May 12 00:03:18 <SpeedEvil> A fair bit of effort remains to get it to a user friendly state though.
May 12 00:04:10 <hawai`i>  rokr1: still have to wait for a publically available image.
May 12 00:04:49 <dotblank> is the opera browser optified?
May 12 00:04:58 <rokr1> maddeveloper has usb ethernet support right
May 12 00:05:07 <hawai`i> dotblank: Yes.
May 12 00:11:20 <dotblank> doersn't seem to support flash
May 12 00:11:34 <Myrtti> as several reports have said before
May 12 00:11:47 <Myrtti> no, wait, was it even in the release notes?
May 12 00:12:14 <Myrtti> yes, yes it does!
May 12 00:12:18 <Myrtti> or is.
May 12 00:12:24 <dotblank> hmm
May 12 00:12:31 <Myrtti> "Adobe Flash and other plugins are not supported."
May 12 00:12:41 <hawai`i> It's clearly indicated.
May 12 00:13:27 <dotblank> k, it was just an observation.. no biggie
May 12 00:15:00 <dotblank> I like the on screen keyboard
May 12 00:19:22 <tylerfixer> Hello! I have a quick question. Anyone know why when I put my n900 in silent it doesn't vibrate only when I have a conversation window open?
May 12 00:21:09 <ManoftheSea> describe further:  It doesn't vibrate when you receive text in conversation?
May 12 00:21:12 <ManoftheSea> That's normal.
May 12 00:21:21 <ManoftheSea> Or you get a call, and it doesn't vibrate.
May 12 00:21:30 <ManoftheSea> Do you have vibrate checked in the profile?
May 12 00:21:41 <tylerfixer> Except that I have "Vibrate" checked in the profiles dialog
May 12 00:21:45 <tylerfixer> Yep
May 12 00:21:53 <tylerfixer> Sorry, I should have said that
May 12 00:22:20 <ManoftheSea> In an active conversation, it doesn't vibrate.
May 12 00:22:29 <ManoftheSea> It vibrates for non-active conversations.
May 12 00:23:01 <tylerfixer> Yeah. Is there a way to make it so it vibrates during active conversations? I leave my n900 on my desk charging with the screen on, and it's useful to have it vibrate so I know to look at the screen...
May 12 00:26:13 <ManoftheSea> close the chat when you're not using it?
May 12 00:26:19 <ManoftheSea> or just keep checking it?
May 12 00:26:24 <ManoftheSea> Is an eyeflick that hard?
May 12 00:26:58 <tylerfixer> That's exactly what I've been doing thus far... it's just one of those things on my "n900 wishlist", my old winmo phone vibrated no matter what (even when I didn't want it to haha)
May 12 00:27:16 <ManoftheSea> heh.
May 12 00:27:21 <ManoftheSea> I can't help you, sorry.
May 12 00:27:41 <tylerfixer> Well, thanks at least for taking the time to think about it :)
May 12 00:28:15 <tylerfixer> I suppose I should check whatever mechanism stores the profiles
May 12 00:28:32 <tylerfixer> see if there's an option in mce or something of the like
May 12 00:32:40 <MohammadAG> 3 minutes till the importer runs :S
May 12 00:34:36 <MohammadAG> 1 minute, package built, epic timing
May 12 00:36:52 <ds3> hmmm running out of ways to search for this -- is there an app that will let me paste in the current GPS coordinates or otherwise create a GPS coordinate referenced note?
May 12 00:38:03 <SpeedEvil> gpxjinni?
May 12 00:38:09 <SpeedEvil> some of the geocaching apps?
May 12 00:38:19 <SpeedEvil> osm2go - if you don't upload the notes
May 12 00:38:37 <Macer> well
May 12 00:38:59 <SpeedEvil> Draw it on a post-it - take a geotagged pic
May 12 00:39:00 <Macer> tried playing open arena but my guy kept going in circles
May 12 00:42:34 <MohammadAG> accelerometer, learn to use it
May 12 00:42:50 <ds3> gpxjinni doesn't let me attach a note to it, does it?
May 12 00:43:04 <SpeedEvil> dunno
May 12 00:43:12 <ds3> all I want is for it to stuff the GPS coordinates in the paste buffer so I can paste it into another app
May 12 00:43:14 <SpeedEvil> I assume you could creat a cache
May 12 00:44:45 <ds3> in an ideal world, it would be part of xournal
May 12 00:46:50 <SpeedEvil> You have I hope suggested this to the author of xournal?
May 12 00:47:25 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/xournal/0.4.2.1-1fremantle4/
May 12 00:50:09 <Funnyfacemob> do you think that using the flashlight app can burn out the camera LEDs?
May 12 00:50:43 <SpeedEvil> No.
May 12 00:50:44 <Funnyfacemob> they are after all only supposed to give a tiny flash, so they may be underrated
May 12 00:50:56 <SpeedEvil> The kernel driver specifies that there are two intensities.
May 12 00:51:06 <ds3> no, just thinking outloud
May 12 00:51:08 <SpeedEvil> The flash intensity is 6* the flashlight intensity
May 12 00:51:18 <ds3> I have xournal installed already
May 12 00:51:20 <Funnyfacemob> ah ok
May 12 00:51:35 <SpeedEvil> Also - I ran it for an hour, and there was no decrease in light output measured by a light meter
May 12 00:51:59 <Funnyfacemob> how about a constant high intensity light then?
May 12 00:52:12 <Funnyfacemob> not possible?
May 12 00:52:41 <MohammadAG> Funnyface, that will burn them out
May 12 00:52:58 <MohammadAG> 10 seconds iirc
May 12 00:52:59 <Funnyfacemob> alright
May 12 00:53:05 <MohammadAG> or 6
May 12 00:53:09 <MohammadAG> don't remember
May 12 00:53:15 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, mentioned it I think
May 12 00:54:13 <Funnyfacemob> and my other question is, is there a way to record video with the LEDs lighting up constantly? the flashlight app and camera won't run at the same time, probably because the driver is in use
May 12 00:54:42 <SpeedEvil> Funnyface: yes - it's not that good
May 12 00:55:04 <Funnyfacemob> but better than nothing for sure :P
May 12 00:55:04 <MohammadAG> lfocus
May 12 00:55:11 <SpeedEvil> http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4200558860/
May 12 00:55:13 <SpeedEvil> See that
May 12 00:55:27 <SpeedEvil> Funnyface
May 12 00:55:41 <Funnyfacemob> loading
May 12 00:55:51 <MohammadAG> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46427
May 12 00:56:11 <SpeedEvil> Basically - if someones face fills the frame - it's going to be acceptably illuminated
May 12 00:56:15 <SpeedEvil> anything else - and not
May 12 00:56:46 <MohammadAG> the N86's camera is brighter, does that mean the lens is wider?
May 12 00:57:00 <MohammadAG> plus the LEDs are brighter
May 12 00:57:11 <Funnyfacemob> looks ok for something filmed that close
May 12 00:57:42 <Funnyfacemob> bit poor playback of the video on here though so can't tell the framerate :P
May 12 00:57:44 <SpeedEvil> The n85 uses the same camera
May 12 00:57:53 <SpeedEvil> I don't know of the n86
May 12 00:58:13 <MohammadAG> 8MP cam, does that ring a bell?
May 12 00:58:25 <SpeedEvil> bi
May 12 00:58:57 <SpeedEvil> no. I was just mentioning the 85, as it's specifically mentioned as a the same model of camera in some repair sute I found
May 12 00:59:06 <MohammadAG> oh
May 12 00:59:29 <SpeedEvil> Also - in the n900 - it's maybe 2MP real
May 12 01:01:09 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, huh?
May 12 01:01:36 <SpeedEvil> huh?
May 12 01:01:39 <SpeedEvil> Oh
May 12 01:01:55 <SpeedEvil> The lens is not physically large enough to produce an 5MP picture
May 12 01:01:56 <asjWrk> the LEDs I suspect aren't heat sinked very well, so heating will probably be a problem first anyways
May 12 01:02:25 <SpeedEvil> asjWrk: I ran it for an hour - the LEDs did not dim at all measured y a light meter
May 12 01:02:26 <asjWrk> (after using some 1+watt leds, let me tell you about heat)
May 12 01:02:33 <SpeedEvil> they are not run at 1W
May 12 01:02:51 <SpeedEvil> But at 70mA IIRC
May 12 01:03:04 <SpeedEvil> So something like .5 for the two
May 12 01:03:17 <asjWrk> SpeedEvil: were they running at full power or flash power?
May 12 01:03:22 <asjWrk> err, flashlight power
May 12 01:03:28 <SpeedEvil> flashlight
May 12 01:03:43 <SpeedEvil> the driver has no interlock against flashing often.
May 12 01:03:56 <SpeedEvil> In principle you could flash for 0.5s every 0.6s say
May 12 01:04:18 <asjWrk> so if it's 6x like mentioned above, that's 280ma, or ~1watt, that's a lot of power to disipate
May 12 01:06:18 <SpeedEvil> yes
May 12 01:06:22 <SpeedEvil> don't do that
May 12 01:06:30 <SpeedEvil> 2 watts - 2 leds
May 12 01:06:35 <asjWrk> I wonder what would melt first...
May 12 01:06:57 <Funnyfacemob> so if there's no way to make it light up somewhere in between the 2 states, PWM!! :P
May 12 01:07:24 <asjWrk> Funnyfacemob: the 1/6th power is probably pwm already
May 12 01:07:47 <SpeedEvil> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900/images/n900_02.jpeg
May 12 01:07:54 <SpeedEvil> see the LEDs at the bottom
May 12 01:07:58 <SpeedEvil> the flash LEDs
May 12 01:08:07 <SpeedEvil> you can see their heatsinking is a bit dubious
May 12 01:08:30 <DocScrutinizer> nonexistent
May 12 01:08:35 <asjWrk> the plastic on top of them probably wouldnt live long anyways
May 12 01:09:23 <SpeedEvil> Not quite nonexistant, I assume that's at least a couple of layers of copper
May 12 01:09:26 <MohammadAG> damn importer!
May 12 01:09:27 <SpeedEvil> but not great
May 12 01:09:46 <asjWrk> the rated die temp of the high power white leds I looked at last went up to 120c...I wouldn't want that on a phone :)
May 12 01:11:19 <Funnyfacemob> hehe
May 12 01:11:47 <Funnyfacemob> "my phone can cook too, can your iphone do that?"
May 12 01:12:09 <DocScrutinizer> what? 120°C not want? bah, that's nothing
May 12 01:12:49 <DocScrutinizer> well, actually some chips may get that hot, under certain conditions
May 12 01:13:29 <MohammadAG> wifi and 3G + JoikuSpot = ...
May 12 01:14:26 <SpeedEvil> SOme are even rated to operate that hot.
May 12 01:14:34 <SpeedEvil> (Not CPUs and stuff typically)
May 12 01:14:45 <SpeedEvil> (though you can even get CPUs that'll go to 250c)
May 12 01:14:56 <Funnyfacemob> my phone freezes after a 30-45mins with joikuspot
May 12 01:15:22 <SpeedEvil> http://www.honeywell.com/sites/portal?smap=aerospace&page=High-Temp-Electonics3&theme=T5&catID=C8CB0A123-D15A-925D-8BF2-3FBCC5E54BB7&id=H0F4347A8-B418-9BBF-51D2-4FE2F72E6EC1&sel=3 - $350 for an 8051
May 12 01:16:41 <Funnyfacemob> oh well at least th N900 cpu seems power efficient
May 12 01:16:53 <Funnyfacemob> it's not on my list of main heaters
May 12 01:17:26 <Funnyfacemob> I think the battery is the main heater, followed by the 3g antenna, then gpu, then wifi
May 12 01:17:38 <SpeedEvil> the battery emits very little heat
May 12 01:17:57 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption
May 12 01:23:31 <Funnyfacemob> seems like there isn't a lot to save by running an idle 2g connection over 3g, unless 3g needs more to maintain connection because the range is loswer :P
May 12 01:23:40 <Funnyfacemob> lower*
May 12 01:24:20 <SpeedEvil> Idle - no - there is little difference.
May 12 01:24:57 <SpeedEvil> Basically - unless the 2G is completely flat-out, it tends to use less power than 3g even used occasionally
May 12 01:25:07 <SpeedEvil> for data
May 12 01:25:34 <SpeedEvil> 2G does use a tiny bit less power inactive
May 12 01:25:40 <SpeedEvil> but it's on the order of 1mA
May 12 01:26:01 <Funnyfacemob> I use 2g all the time, unless I need to pull down a large file or watch a video stream
May 12 01:26:21 <Funnyfacemob> even for browsing I find 2g good enough
May 12 01:26:43 <Funnyfacemob> I get roughly 20KB/s everywhere with 2g
May 12 01:27:18 <SpeedEvil> It never seems to kick in onto EDGE for me
May 12 01:27:25 <SpeedEvil> staying at 5-6K/s
May 12 01:27:28 <Funnyfacemob> in the areas where there is 3g coverage as well.. in rural areas with only 2g coverage it might be lower
May 12 01:27:50 <Funnyfacemob> someone else I know from the UK has the same problem
May 12 01:28:08 <Funnyfacemob> can't remember what carrier he was on
May 12 01:32:18 <Funnyfacemob> he was on tmobile, which is now orange
May 12 01:38:19 <SpeedEvil> same net then
May 12 01:38:34 <SpeedEvil> But - at 20 quid/6 months on pay-as-you-go
May 12 01:42:19 <MohammadAG> I wonder why I got this error Device using more power than it is receiving from the PC. Charging with a compatible charger is recommended.
May 12 01:43:54 <Funnyfacemob> maybe your USB port refused to provide 500mA
May 12 01:44:38 <joeywolfgram> unlikely
May 12 01:45:35 <DocScrutinizer51> strange activity here at a strange time :-P
May 12 01:45:42 <joeywolfgram> lol
May 12 01:46:25 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: verrrry interesting!
May 12 01:46:32 <DocScrutinizer51> a notifier?
May 12 01:46:53 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, yeah, same as the one for Charging
May 12 01:47:04 <MohammadAG> btw I didn't type that, I cat'd the language files
May 12 01:47:26 <MohammadAG> I just saw Device using and couldn't read the rest since it disappeared
May 12 01:47:28 <DocScrutinizer51> so this means bme is reading the current_now from bq27200
May 12 01:47:56 <MohammadAG> ~ping
May 12 01:47:57 <infobot> ~pong
May 12 01:48:00 <MohammadAG> weird
May 12 01:48:10 <MohammadAG> I connected the N900 and Ubuntu said wired network disconnected
May 12 01:48:11 <DocScrutinizer51> and finds bat is actually discharging
May 12 01:50:14 <MohammadAG> Depends: busybox <-- is that a good thing to do ?
May 12 01:50:41 <MohammadAG> guess not, I'll use man-db
May 12 01:51:43 <DocScrutinizer51> huh?
May 12 01:53:52 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, man-db pages, how do I read the value from current_now? I'm getting the error a lot
May 12 01:53:57 <MohammadAG> yet it keeps charging
May 12 01:54:13 <MohammadAG> oh and I found this in the language strings Device using too much power.
May 12 01:54:24 <MohammadAG> cat /usr/share/locale/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/* | grep "Device using*"
May 12 01:55:12 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: use ShadowJK 's bq27x00 readout script
May 12 01:56:56 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: something like bq.tgz
May 12 01:57:35 <MohammadAG> Uploading man-db pages to -devel
May 12 01:57:40 <MohammadAG> and searching logs ;)
May 12 01:58:07 <MohammadAG> 10 minutes left for the importer to kick in
May 12 01:58:16 <MohammadAG> less, oh crap
May 12 01:58:19 <DocScrutinizer51> or use my script from people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery and adapt the sysfs readout by replacing it with i2cdump
May 12 01:58:29 <MohammadAG> 	MohammadAG: something like bq.tgz <-- so helpful lol
May 12 01:58:56 <user__> my penis
May 12 01:59:00 <user__> is huge
May 12 01:59:13 <MohammadAG> 403 forbidden
May 12 01:59:14 <MohammadAG> wtf
May 12 01:59:30 <DocScrutinizer> duh
May 12 01:59:52 <DocScrutinizer> 403?
May 12 01:59:55 <DocScrutinizer> where?
May 12 02:00:08 <MohammadAG> You don't have permission to access /joerg/battery/BUPBAT/ on this server.
May 12 02:00:22 <DocScrutinizer> sorry dude ;-)
May 12 02:00:29 <MohammadAG> lol nw
May 12 02:00:40 <MohammadAG> Uploading is damn slow :(
May 12 02:00:52 <MohammadAG> guess I'll have to check if my package works tomorrow
May 12 02:01:00 <MohammadAG> if it breaks any N900s, that's what -devel is for
May 12 02:01:21 <DocScrutinizer> lol
May 12 02:02:01 <MohammadAG> finally, move to autobuilder
May 12 02:02:04 <MohammadAG> hope it gets there
May 12 02:03:42 <MohammadAG> 	2010-05-12 02:02 UTC
May 12 02:03:48 <MohammadAG> 3 minutes till the autobuilder runs
May 12 02:13:13 <MohammadAG> Night #maemo
May 12 02:17:06 <Funnyfacemob> one thing that is a pain in the ass with touchscreen is that when you try to drag and drop something, the position changes just as you take your finger or stylus off the screen..
May 12 02:17:27 <Funnyfacemob> trying to align a lot of shortcuts on my desktop at the moment :P
May 12 02:23:42 <SpeedEvil> Funnyface: :)
May 12 02:23:54 <SpeedEvil> You want to set the snap to a reasonable figure
May 12 02:23:59 <SpeedEvil> 40 pixels forex
May 12 02:26:17 <SpeedEvil> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5372
May 12 02:26:19 <povbot> Bug 5372: Can't easily align desktop widgets (snap to position) on home screens
May 12 02:26:26 <SpeedEvil> see comment 13 Funnyface
May 12 02:26:30 <SpeedEvil> Funnyfacemob:
May 12 02:28:28 <Funnyfacemob> ah
May 12 02:29:42 <Funnyfacemob> thanks
May 12 02:31:52 <SpeedEvil> bo
May 12 02:34:07 <DocScrutinizer51> Funnyfacemob: there's a gridsnap for desktops
May 12 02:34:28 <DocScrutinizer51> ooh late
May 12 02:38:03 <Funnyfacemob> I'll get this tweaker thing, sounds interesting
May 12 02:38:52 <Funnyfacemob> anyway generally speaking, it's annoying that touchscreens are that way, but especially on the desktop :P
May 12 02:39:13 <Funnyfacemob> on my old device, the web browser would scroll like cfazy every now and then
May 12 02:46:37 <Funnyfacemob> great, that was 10 times quicker
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 12 02:59:56 2010