**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 12 02:59:56 2010
May 12 03:28:05 <Shinkam900> wow
May 12 03:28:09 <Shinkam900> opera is fast
May 12 03:28:12 <Shinkam900> mostly
May 12 03:28:21 <Shinkam900> render and scroll are great
May 12 03:28:39 <Shinkam900> but im still more a fan of microb
May 12 03:29:53 <Shinkam900> mostly
May 12 03:39:21 <Macer> microb is great
May 12 03:39:22 <Macer> :)
May 12 03:39:44 <Macer> i still want cups :/
May 12 03:44:22 * DocScrutinizer51 passes 2 cups to Macer 
May 12 03:44:51 <Macer> :)
May 12 03:45:05 <Macer> DocScrutinizer51: you bricked your phone trying to replace the front piece?
May 12 03:45:21 <DocScrutinizer51> nah
May 12 03:45:23 <Macer> i have a small scratch... but it just occured to me that sooner or later no matter what i do... i will scratch it more
May 12 03:45:27 <Macer> :)
May 12 03:45:38 <DocScrutinizer51> who's telling that?
May 12 03:45:46 <Macer> i was just curious how difficult it is to replace the front of the screen
May 12 03:46:22 <DocScrutinizer51> it's probably not too difficult
May 12 03:46:35 <DocScrutinizer51> but a bit dangeroues
May 12 03:46:47 <Macer> yeah that's what someone was saying
May 12 03:47:05 <Macer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVEHm325-z8
May 12 03:48:03 <DocScrutinizer51> hhmm know that video
May 12 03:51:11 <Macer> doesn't seem too difficult
May 12 03:51:16 <Macer> just need a set of small screwdrivers
May 12 03:51:24 <swc|666> or a sledgehammer
May 12 03:51:26 <Macer> and make sure you don't rip apart the small ribbon cables :)
May 12 03:51:48 <Macer> wonder if i can find a replacement screen.. it's not even a big scratch but it would be good to know i have one on standby
May 12 03:51:55 <Macer> maybe a new housing too just in case
May 12 03:52:05 <rockstar_> Macer: n900?
May 12 03:52:07 <Macer> i dropped my n95 one day and had to find a new housing for it
May 12 03:52:11 <Macer> yeah
May 12 03:52:26 <Macer> i have a scratch that isn't even noticable.. but still. i would like to have spare parts lying around just in case
May 12 03:52:36 <Macer> i doubt i'm going to be getting rid of my n900 any time soon :)
May 12 03:53:01 <rockstar_> PR1.2 needs to be released
May 12 03:53:17 <Macer> especially once i get a portrait mode "desktop" and cups
May 12 03:53:34 <DocScrutinizer51> Macer: that video is a 'fake'
May 12 03:53:35 <Macer> cups especially :) it would be nice to use the easydeb openoffice to make something and print it straight off the phone
May 12 03:53:40 <Macer> a fake?
May 12 03:54:08 <rockstar_> Macer: why don't you port cups?
May 12 03:54:15 <Macer> rockstar_: don't know how :/
May 12 03:55:00 <Macer> nor do i have the time to do it now. luckily my mother is watching my son tonight but usually he is with me.. ever try to figure out how to set up a dev environment and get it all going with a 4 year old hanging on you ? :)
May 12 03:55:07 <swc|666> let's see him put it back together
May 12 03:55:19 <Macer> DocScrutinizer51: that doesn't seem too fake to me :)
May 12 03:55:29 <DocScrutinizer51> Macer: by exactly following the procedure shown in the video you pretty certainly will ruin your N900
May 12 03:55:44 <Macer> why?
May 12 03:56:36 <DocScrutinizer51> do you think the cable will hang loose when you 'pop out the screen with loud noise that scared us a little bit'
May 12 03:56:56 <DocScrutinizer51> for sure it will after you did it
May 12 03:57:14 <DocScrutinizer51> but I doubt it will survive that
May 12 03:57:38 <Macer> ah. i didn't notice that
May 12 03:57:40 <Macer> you are right
May 12 03:57:57 <DocScrutinizer51> so->fake
May 12 03:57:57 <Macer> i figured though that they had already disassembled it and put it back togethe without the ribbon cable connected?
May 12 03:58:13 <DocScrutinizer51> prolly
May 12 03:58:15 <Macer> it uses a normal ribbon cable connector right? the little plastic flip down tab?
May 12 03:58:22 <Macer> that locks it into place?
May 12 03:58:25 <Macer> seems so
May 12 03:58:36 <Macer> like the kind you find on ps3 optical drives
May 12 03:58:38 <DocScrutinizer51> nope
May 12 03:58:56 <DocScrutinizer51> it's a bord2board connector
May 12 03:59:07 <Macer> yeah
May 12 03:59:08 <Macer> hm
May 12 03:59:16 <Macer> that looks like something that may have came out of place by separating it
May 12 03:59:23 <Macer> it looks rather.. pinned :)
May 12 04:00:19 <Macer> that cable that was unplugged looks like something that is easy to put back into place
May 12 04:00:28 <DocScrutinizer51> check L1/2 service manual
May 12 04:00:46 <DocScrutinizer51> it's not
May 12 04:00:49 <Macer> there's a L1/2 service manual? :)
May 12 04:00:51 <Macer> heh
May 12 04:01:01 <DocScrutinizer51> it's a pita to put back into place
May 12 04:01:53 <Macer> hm
May 12 04:02:06 <Macer> but it looks like it just kind of presses back into place correct?
May 12 04:02:14 <Macer> it isn't something that's soldered on is it?
May 12 04:02:38 <Macer> i mean the ribbon has what looks like a male connector on it
May 12 04:02:49 <DocScrutinizer51> yep but needs correct alignment and the screen covers it
May 12 04:03:11 <Macer> how did you get it back into place?
May 12 04:03:17 <Macer> used a stick or something? :)
May 12 04:03:26 <DocScrutinizer51> yes it's male half of a soldered B2B
May 12 04:03:26 <Macer> a tongue depressor?
May 12 04:03:45 <DocScrutinizer51> something like that
May 12 04:04:11 <Macer> needlenose pliers? :) you can't go wrong with needlenose pliers
May 12 04:04:40 <DocScrutinizer51> the problem is the soldering at that point
May 12 04:04:55 <DocScrutinizer51> I mean theat's a flex cable
May 12 04:05:20 <Macer> yeah but that's only if you break the connector on the cable isn't it?
May 12 04:05:34 <Macer> as long as you are careful you should be able to kind of disconnect it without separting it from the cable correct?
May 12 04:05:54 <DocScrutinizer51> and it even has another small patch soldered to the backside on that point for making jumpers
May 12 04:06:38 <DocScrutinizer51> correct that's the idea how it s supposed to work
May 12 04:08:46 <DocScrutinizer51> but really you need care and L1/2
May 12 04:09:40 <DocScrutinizer51> and a tool very similar to the NOKIA special plastic thingy
May 12 04:10:03 <Macer> haha
May 12 04:10:10 <Macer> like the one they send with n95 housings?
May 12 04:10:16 <Macer> to get the tabs unclipped?
May 12 04:10:33 <DocScrutinizer51> maybe similar
May 12 04:10:40 <DocScrutinizer51> see L1/2
May 12 04:11:03 <DocScrutinizer51> the blue screwdriver alike thingy
May 12 04:11:18 <Macer> hm
May 12 04:11:27 <Macer> i'm curious about that front screen cover with the ribbon going to it
May 12 04:11:35 <Macer> how do you disconnect that ribbon?
May 12 04:12:02 <Macer> i want to do fun stuff like put my n900 in a pink housing just to be funny :)
May 12 04:12:10 <Macer> maybe one with rhinestones on it
May 12 04:12:35 <Macer> OR ... maybe i'll go gangsta and put it in a custom made platinum housing with diamonds all around it
May 12 04:13:12 <Macer> DocScrutinizer51: do you know where i can get the L1/2 service manual for an n900?
May 12 04:13:16 <Macer> is that something i'd have to order?
May 12 04:14:08 <DocScrutinizer51> check the wiki
May 12 04:16:24 <DocScrutinizer51> also check my disassembled scans
May 12 04:17:00 <DocScrutinizer51> might help for a few details
May 12 04:18:40 <Macer> awesome.. thanks
May 12 04:18:47 <Macer> not anything i'll have to do soon (hopefully)
May 12 04:19:16 <Macer> but a lesson learned from the n95 is that it is always good to know how to take your phone apart when you are the guy with a broke phone :)
May 12 04:19:35 <Macer> my n95 had a chip on it for like 2 months before i couldn't take it anymore and ripped it apart and put a black housing on it
May 12 04:19:46 <Macer> wasn't too difficult
May 12 04:32:57 * lcuk fails at sleeping
May 12 05:11:26 <rockstar_> lcuk: try meditating
May 12 05:11:39 <lcuk> doesnt work
May 12 05:11:55 <rockstar_> try suicide
May 12 05:12:17 <lcuk> i think ill pass
May 12 05:33:30 <adeus> any ideas why a file that is in the deb file is not copied in the system via dpkg -i?
May 12 05:34:47 <Mace_N900> hm
May 12 05:47:41 <adeus> hmm purge helped
May 12 05:59:58 * ruskie wants webkit 1.2... /me goes to try and hammer togheter the relevant debs
May 12 06:12:55 <wall[e]> hi, is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash accurate on the table part in solution 1?
May 12 06:14:45 <ruskie> wall[e], yeah it assumes you have a standard layout
May 12 06:16:42 <wall[e]> ruskie, I got http://www.pasteall.org/13078
May 12 06:17:28 <wall[e]> after I done sfdisk --no-reread /dev/mmcblk0 < table
May 12 06:17:31 <wall[e]> and reboot
May 12 06:18:42 <wall[e]> p1 should be new vfat right?
May 12 06:19:06 <ruskie> no clue
May 12 06:19:07 <Shapeshifter> opera mobile is awesome. I can surf on 2g as fast as I was able to on microb with 3g, because it always loads text first, images later so one can already start reading things. brilliant.
May 12 06:19:29 * ruskie think Shapeshifter needs to go proclaim that to opera
May 12 06:19:40 <ruskie> wall[e], my approach is solution #3 ;)
May 12 06:19:58 <wall[e]> ruskie, i guess I got the unit size all wrong :S
May 12 06:20:26 <wall[e]> but better goes with solution 3 so i have some friends
May 12 06:20:41 <ruskie> wall[e], and always read the original post not the stuff that's on that wiki page
May 12 06:21:10 <ruskie> those instructions to me sound a tad sparse and possibly a tad wrong
May 12 06:21:22 <wall[e]> ruskie, I think the unit size aren't equal
May 12 06:21:27 <wall[e]> ok
May 12 06:21:28 <wall[e]> thanks
May 12 06:29:20 <wall[e]> i think i should flash!
May 12 06:29:36 <wall[e]> better do math later
May 12 06:51:49 <mjo> Hi . I want to add my native language input method to N900, so that I can input text in my native language. Any pointers how that can be done or if any tools exist to do this?
May 12 06:52:32 <Stskeeps> well, you can start out with what language it is
May 12 06:52:49 <mjo> Stskeeps: Hindi
May 12 06:57:48 <Jaffa> Morning, all
May 12 06:58:25 <Stskeeps> morn jaffa
May 12 06:59:12 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Collector of interesting links: 1) Get a Twitter client which is easy to post with; 2) Write messages of the form "d mwkn Devices <some keywords> <url>" or "@mwkn Devices <smoe keywords> <url>"
May 12 06:59:37 <Stskeeps> alright
May 12 07:02:25 <lbt> morning
May 12 07:03:18 <lbt> Jaffa, Stskeeps http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52259
May 12 07:03:43 <Stskeeps> OBS json-glib? yeah, saw
May 12 07:04:29 <alterego> Guten moaning #maemo
May 12 07:04:47 <zash> gluten mörgen
May 12 07:04:58 * lbt hits refresh ... oh yes :P
May 12 07:07:57 * ruskie gives up on webkit 1.2 on the n900
May 12 07:08:21 <petteri> it would be handy if the bot here could printout title from those urls pasted here
May 12 07:10:42 <hrw-uds> hi
May 12 07:11:42 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: So, for example, your link from earlier I've just done "d mwkn Devices Efforts underway to get 3D drivers working on N8x0 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=654109"
May 12 07:12:23 <Stskeeps> :nod:
May 12 07:12:55 * phellarv is awfully pleased with Opera on my N900
May 12 07:13:15 * wall[e] too
May 12 07:13:18 <wall[e]> and i hate that
May 12 07:13:23 <furunk3l> y helo thar!
May 12 07:14:51 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Full reference at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Weekly_News#Contributor_Reference
May 12 07:20:43 <jacekowski> morning
May 12 07:20:56 <ruskie> lo
May 12 07:24:06 <wall[e]> file manager couldn't go above MyDocs?
May 12 07:24:55 <wall[e]> ah something todo with extra memory right?
May 12 07:25:00 <hrw-uds> wall[e]: this is 'Files' not 'File manager' ;D
May 12 07:25:16 <wall[e]> :)
May 12 07:26:12 <ruskie> file manager is limited sadly to my docs and mmc and upnp
May 12 07:27:25 <wall[e]> too bad
May 12 07:37:19 <wikilover> hallo
May 12 07:37:31 <wikilover> is anybody here
May 12 07:38:06 <Po0ky> sure
May 12 07:53:30 <wikilover> u must be a good gay
May 12 07:58:55 <ShadowJK> Anyone tried opera on n8x0 yet?
May 12 08:28:54 <kevloral> hi all
May 12 08:30:31 <Stskeeps> andre__: i'd say your bugmaster review went better than mine ;)
May 12 08:30:42 <fraggeln> bleader: we can use ctrl+m to send enter :) but that seems more like a workaround rather then a perm solution.
May 12 08:30:59 <andre__> Stskeeps, heh
May 12 08:31:00 <hrw-uds> Stskeeps: url?
May 12 08:31:09 <bleader> fraggeln: oh, didn't talk about it, but yeah, I'm using it all the time actually
May 12 08:31:38 <bleader> fraggeln: in fact, enter works fine in irssi in one window of my screen, et doesn't work on mutt in the other window
May 12 08:31:50 <fraggeln> bleader: same here
May 12 08:32:10 <ruskie> all keys work fine for me ssh
May 12 08:33:04 <ruskie> erm with ssh even
May 12 08:36:35 <fraggeln> ruskie: even in a screen when running mutt or vi?
May 12 08:37:36 <ruskie> fraggeln, I use tmux
May 12 08:37:41 <ruskie> and I use alpine not mutt
May 12 08:39:06 <fraggeln> ruskie: anyway, its still a bug :)
May 12 08:46:55 <ruskie> fraggeln, works with tmux and vim as well
May 12 08:47:13 <fraggeln> cool.
May 12 08:47:37 <ruskie> fraggeln, I do use zsh on each end though
May 12 08:47:41 <ruskie> so that might be the reason
May 12 08:47:46 <fraggeln> maybe.
May 12 08:49:25 <phellarv> Hmmm - pam on my N900: Yay or Nay
May 12 08:49:57 * phellarv is trying to get screen compiling for N900.
May 12 08:50:28 <fraggeln> mysql is the shit on n900 :)
May 12 08:52:25 <phellarv> fraggeln: Which version?
May 12 08:53:14 * phellarv got Varnish running on N900 - Imagine running a stack of N900s for caching facebook.
May 12 08:53:27 <fraggeln> phellarv: 4.1.22-1
May 12 08:53:39 <Stskeeps> phellarv: we can beat that, maemo.org has been running on 770's for years ;p
May 12 08:53:43 <fraggeln> phellarv: why, but why.. :D
May 12 08:53:51 <fraggeln> Stskeeps: aha, hence the slow browsing? :D
May 12 08:54:22 <hrw-uds> Stskeeps: but how they connected that famous 33600 modem to it...
May 12 08:54:32 <Stskeeps> hrw-uds: usb host
May 12 08:54:32 <Stskeeps> :P
May 12 08:54:41 <hrw-uds> Stskeeps: ah...
May 12 08:54:42 <phellarv> hrw-uds: USB-to-Serial
May 12 08:54:50 <hrw-uds> Stskeeps: or jig to serial port
May 12 08:55:23 <hrw-uds> ~curse nokia just in case
May 12 08:55:59 <hrw-uds> so far LR1.2 works fine on my n900 but would be nice to make s/L/P on it
May 12 08:59:33 <chem|st> ~oc
May 12 08:59:34 <infobot> well, oc is an Optical Carrier, An OC1 has 672 channels or 44.736 Mbit/s
May 12 08:59:42 <chem|st> ~overclock
May 12 08:59:43 <infobot> I overclock in winter to keep dpkg's toes warm.
May 12 09:03:15 <chem|st> phellarv: screen is already build
May 12 09:03:46 <phellarv> chem|st: Oh? In extras-devel?
May 12 09:08:18 <chem|st> no I think it was the SDK-tools
May 12 09:09:27 <phellarv> chem|st: M'Kay
May 12 09:09:36 <chem|st> phellarv: want the settings?
May 12 09:12:23 <chem|st> phellarv: its in the normal repo afais
May 12 09:14:24 <chem|st> distri fremantle/tools it is
May 12 09:16:01 <phellarv> chem|st: Then I will compile it, just cause I can
May 12 09:16:03 <phellarv> ;-P
May 12 09:20:43 * SpeedEvil smiles.
May 12 09:20:58 <SpeedEvil> Since the start of my diet, I have lost pi stones.
May 12 09:26:15 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: you lost your surface divided by you radius by stones and you are a circle?
May 12 09:26:43 <SpeedEvil> At least I'm not a sphere any more.
May 12 09:26:50 <chem|st> hehe
May 12 09:27:02 <MohammadAG> don't you just hate it when facebook changes all their settings to add a - before each contact's jabber account
May 12 09:27:07 <chem|st> what is 3.xx stones in metrics
May 12 09:27:13 <MohammadAG> now I have to merge duplicates again!
May 12 09:28:11 <rogcas> hi, i have a question please. i have downladed and installed on a debian system qt 4.6.2 for devel on maemo. now what? i am ready to compile app for maemo? because i have installed outside scratchbox, as the installer guide said.
May 12 09:28:21 <chem|st> MohammadAG: these freaks want to use an open standard and behave like sh** also privacy measures hav changed last month to ICQ like setup
May 12 09:28:33 <hrw-uds> MohammadAG: facebook and twitter are most common sources of duplicates
May 12 09:28:55 <hrw-uds> MohammadAG: did they finally added ssl for jabber chat?
May 12 09:29:21 <MohammadAG> no idea lol
May 12 09:29:49 <chem|st> rogcas: you can choose to build for arm I guess, I am still on c++ tutorials for people with ideas that do not fit any good reason
May 12 09:29:58 <MohammadAG> chem|st, I know about their privacy crap, my fb account is basically empty, it's just there for the idiots who don't switch to another network
May 12 09:30:09 <MohammadAG> s/idiots/friends :P
May 12 09:30:19 <chem|st> MohammadAG: isnt it the same
May 12 09:30:56 <chem|st> its so easy to setup encryption for stuff like jabber but noone does use it...
May 12 09:31:23 <chem|st> and up front modest and telepathy
May 12 09:31:28 <rogcas> chem|st: well, suppose, i must try first to compile inside scratchbox and if no success comeback here to ask again. thanks, suppose will come back. bye.
May 12 09:32:22 <chem|st> rogcas: afaik you can compile from the Qt SDK and copie the build to some testing environment
May 12 09:37:24 <Corsac> chem|st: some people do use it, and some businesses are very interested in them
May 12 09:39:14 <r0gcas> chem|st: do you mean scratchbox is not more necessary when compiling qt apps?
May 12 09:41:04 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: are these idiots your friends? :)
May 12 09:44:01 <jacekowski> oh
May 12 09:44:11 <jacekowski> take a look
May 12 09:44:30 <jacekowski> i just had e-mail from nokia
May 12 09:44:38 <jacekowski> X-Fade: ping
May 12 09:44:48 <Stskeeps> cease and desist? :P
May 12 09:44:51 <jacekowski> http://pastebin.com/daeBB7tU
May 12 09:45:03 <jacekowski> Stskeeps: sort of
May 12 09:46:04 <tekojo> well, it was me who got the c&d
May 12 09:46:07 <tekojo> :)
May 12 09:46:19 <ruskie> lol
May 12 09:46:24 <tekojo> but as it's not my package, I need to tell you about it :)
May 12 09:46:29 <jacekowski> can you forward a copy of it?
May 12 09:46:40 <r0gcas> please, i need advice. i just have downloaded qt-maemo-4.6.2 and installed on debian system. what it rests to download or install in order make apps and test them on the device?
May 12 09:47:01 <r0gcas> is scratchbox needed any more?
May 12 09:47:10 <Stskeeps> jacekowski: looks like freebsd and others have been hit with it too
May 12 09:47:14 <tekojo> It's a physical paper document
May 12 09:47:17 <r0gcas> i have to download files on the device itself?
May 12 09:47:20 <jacekowski> tekojo: scan it
May 12 09:47:21 <chem|st> r0gcas: well for testing I guess you may need it as you dont want to screw up your device and reflash for every second testbuild...
May 12 09:47:48 <jacekowski> tekojo: and do you mind if it would link to copy hosted in my repository?
May 12 09:47:53 <tekojo> I'll try to :)
May 12 09:48:08 <tekojo> your repository is yours to share whatever you feel like
May 12 09:48:35 <tekojo> I only look after the maemo.org one, as long as my name is there on the legal page
May 12 09:48:55 <jacekowski> besides, it's US patent, and we are in europe
May 12 09:49:10 <tekojo> sorry for the mess, not my favourite topic either, but they do have an open legal case, and we don't interfere in someone elses casese
May 12 09:49:31 <tekojo> well, legal case anyway
May 12 09:49:57 <Stskeeps> that's a nasty patent
May 12 09:50:08 <jacekowski> well, i think i can remove that easily from chromium
May 12 09:50:16 <SpeedEvil> what patent?
May 12 09:50:39 * SpeedEvil stabs stupid patents.
May 12 09:50:44 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: binary diff software updates
May 12 09:50:48 <tekojo> 6,546,552 US pat
May 12 09:51:02 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/11/us_patent_office_i4i_microsoft_word_xml/ <-- here's another patent news for today ;)
May 12 09:51:11 <Stskeeps> tekojo: we might want to watch out for that with the meego repos too - there's delta upgrades
May 12 09:51:24 <Termana> Anyone care to tell me how you can send cease and desist letters based on an on-going case? If the case has yet to be decided, then no one is officially in violation - innocent till proven guilty?
May 12 09:51:34 <tekojo> but rpm, I think this is about a specific way to do it
May 12 09:51:38 <Stskeeps> :nod:
May 12 09:51:40 <Stskeeps> think so too
May 12 09:51:46 <Stskeeps> depending on how wide their patent is :)
May 12 09:51:49 <ruskie> Termana, only in criminal law
May 12 09:51:59 <ruskie> in civil law you are guilty until you prove otherwise
May 12 09:52:13 <SpeedEvil> KSM - kernel samepage mapping - merging pages which become identical through the life of the system - to save memory - has avoided hashing the involved pages due to a patent. Despite the mergemem module - which explicitly did this - since way before the patent was granted.
May 12 09:52:26 <SpeedEvil> Which is annoying, as mergemem on the n900 would e interesting
May 12 09:52:51 <ruskie> SpeedEvil, way before it was granted what about before it was applied for?
May 12 09:53:06 <SpeedEvil> way before.
May 12 09:53:21 <SpeedEvil> IIRC the dates were something like 1996 and 2005
May 12 09:53:35 <ruskie> then someone just needs to throw lawyers at it until it goes away
May 12 09:53:46 <jacekowski> tekojo: if i would remove that part of code ( it's not used anyways ) can you keep it there?
May 12 09:53:57 <SpeedEvil> ruskie: Sure.
May 12 09:54:10 <ruskie> hmm I wonder if xdelta predates this whole binary diffs of apps
May 12 09:54:20 <SpeedEvil> ruskie: There not being a simple 'fuck off - this is clearly invalid on its face' - is broken.
May 12 09:54:55 <Stskeeps> i wonder if debian got a c&d too
May 12 09:55:06 <Stskeeps> their debian-legal should be fun to read about it
May 12 09:55:46 <jacekowski> debian don't have chromium in their repositories
May 12 09:56:02 <ruskie> I'm guessing it'll only go to those that actually make a profit
May 12 09:56:15 <SpeedEvil> ruskie: nope
May 12 09:56:16 <jacekowski> ruskie: i never made any profit on it
May 12 09:56:28 <SpeedEvil> ruskie: google the patent numbers - they're mailshotting everyone
May 12 09:56:31 <SpeedEvil> freebsd forex
May 12 09:57:04 <Stskeeps> the problem is that maemo.org is practically under nokia auspices, which means we are protected/vulnerable jut as nokia is
May 12 09:57:10 <Stskeeps> in terms of hosting etc
May 12 09:58:31 <ruskie> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/11/nokia_meego_symbian_reorg/ <-- why did I read that as someone who is 19 years old?
May 12 09:58:54 <SpeedEvil> Isn't this somewhat rather boring binary diff algo?
May 12 09:59:03 <SpeedEvil> Or am I missing something really clever.
May 12 09:59:04 <jacekowski> Stskeeps: yes
May 12 09:59:10 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: almost
May 12 09:59:21 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: Can that functionality ever be used in your 'port' anyway?
May 12 09:59:22 <jacekowski> http://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/software-updates-courgette
May 12 09:59:24 <chem|st> jacekowski: byebye chromium...
May 12 09:59:26 <jacekowski> no
May 12 09:59:37 <jacekowski> chem|st: it'll be back in half hour
May 12 10:00:17 <chem|st> jacekowski: from your server?
May 12 10:00:25 <ruskie> http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2010/05/12/red_sky_liability_ruling/ <-- yay EULAs getting ripped appart piece by piece
May 12 10:00:46 <chem|st> what is red sky?
May 12 10:00:47 <jacekowski> no
May 12 10:00:52 <jacekowski> chem|st: i'm removing that part
May 12 10:00:56 <jacekowski> chem|st: it's not used anyways
May 12 10:01:24 <chem|st> jacekowski: those sueing folks... (its like sports in th US isnt it?)
May 12 10:01:32 <jacekowski> i think so
May 12 10:01:40 <jacekowski> but i don't live in US
May 12 10:01:43 <jacekowski> so i don't care
May 12 10:02:09 <jacekowski> and US police can't raid my house
May 12 10:02:32 <ruskie> jacekowski, nor would they
May 12 10:02:39 <ruskie> jacekowski, patents are still a civil matter
May 12 10:02:46 <jacekowski> ( if i would be living in US i would have to pack my things and run away )
May 12 10:03:01 <ShadowJK> SpeedEvil, I thought KSM was only used by/useful for virtualization stuff like kvm and xen?
May 12 10:03:03 <ruskie> same as most copyright and trademark law
May 12 10:03:11 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: yes - it is
May 12 10:03:16 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: that's a seperate bit
May 12 10:03:26 <ruskie> ShadowJK, why not use it with a web browser or anything else that has a lot of similar things loaded
May 12 10:03:44 <ShadowJK> sure, send patch ;)
May 12 10:03:48 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: I would like to try it on a non-vm system - it produced useful savings last time I tried it - which was admittedly some time ago
May 12 10:04:04 <ShadowJK> Yeah but that was a different thing you tried really ;)
May 12 10:04:09 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: As in ~10% of RAM.
May 12 10:04:21 <SpeedEvil> sure
May 12 10:04:47 <ruskie> I have a browser that uses it
May 12 10:04:53 <ShadowJK> hm... so 6 hours 30 minutes in helisimrc, and only 514 crashes.. I think I'm ready for the real thing :>
May 12 10:04:54 <ruskie> apparently it's like a one line thing
May 12 10:05:26 <MohammadAG> tmo down? as always
May 12 10:06:04 <jacekowski> tekojo: besides, aren't you supposed to give me 24h to respond?
May 12 10:06:27 <SpeedEvil> ruskie: I suspect LD_PRELOAD stuff can also be done
May 12 10:06:33 <ShadowJK> I think that's dmca?
May 12 10:06:49 <Noma> wtf, why is "sudo gainroot" asking me password?
May 12 10:07:02 <Stskeeps> Noma: someone messed your sudoers
May 12 10:07:10 <Noma> how do i fix it?
May 12 10:07:11 <ShadowJK> It usually asks me when I spell gainroot wrong
May 12 10:07:55 <tekojo> jacekowski, it's about the distribution
May 12 10:07:55 <Noma> i've tried a few times now and i don't think i've spelled it wrong every time :D
May 12 10:08:41 <jacekowski> tekojo: "The provider of allegedly infringing material may issue a written or electronic counter notification. "
May 12 10:08:41 <tekojo> your site, you can do anything you feel like, but maemo.org, I get the legal mail
May 12 10:09:21 <ruskie> dmca is only for copyright infringments iirc
May 12 10:09:32 <ShadowJK> jacekowski, that is dmca which is for copyright infringements
May 12 10:10:33 <Noma> can anyone tell me how can i make my sudo gainroot work?:)
May 12 10:10:58 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: dmca is US law and doesn't apply in EU
May 12 10:11:08 <jacekowski> nokia is still based in EU?
May 12 10:11:08 <ShadowJK> that too.
May 12 10:11:33 <ShadowJK> So even if DMCA was relevant to this C&D, it'd still not apply to give you 24h to respond ;)
May 12 10:11:34 <Stskeeps> jacekowski: but maemo.org repo is distributed all over the world
May 12 10:12:28 <Stskeeps> (akamai)
May 12 10:12:42 <ruskie> iirc there is some dmca like provision in the eu copyright law
May 12 10:12:46 <rodarvus> DocScrutinizer51, I was able to find the guy who hopefully can help us, and sent him an email. I'll let you know as soon as I get an answer from him (re: modem engineering mode)
May 12 10:13:16 <lcuk> \o/
May 12 10:14:05 <SpeedEvil> rodarvus: :)
May 12 10:14:33 <Termana> Stskeeps, buts its not the US' laws that apply, I don't think it matters that your serving material to the country, its not their jurisdiction or laws that apply in the EU
May 12 10:14:43 <Stskeeps> Termana: nokia US..
May 12 10:16:24 <lbt> C&D ?
May 12 10:16:26 <Termana> Stskeeps, but is it Nokia US the owner of maemo.org or Nokia EU?
May 12 10:16:41 <Stskeeps> Termana: nokia is multinational, so it doesn't matter much :P
May 12 10:16:45 <Stskeeps> we're a valid target
May 12 10:17:18 <Termana> Stskeeps, I don't think action can be taken against Nokia US, for the actions of Nokia EU
May 12 10:17:28 <Termana> That would be silly
May 12 10:17:34 <SpeedEvil> Termana: of course it can
May 12 10:17:49 <Termana> Then thats silly!
May 12 10:17:50 <Termana> :P
May 12 10:17:53 <Stskeeps> yes, it is
May 12 10:17:54 <Stskeeps> :P
May 12 10:17:54 <SpeedEvil> Termana: The government of any nation can take action against any assets a company has in the country
May 12 10:18:05 <SpeedEvil> This is part of what makes a multinational fun.
May 12 10:21:22 <mjo> whats the best IRC client ?
May 12 10:21:37 <petteri> irssi
May 12 10:21:46 <lcuk> xchat
May 12 10:21:52 <alturiak> weechat
May 12 10:22:00 <SpeedEvil> telnet
May 12 10:22:08 <SpeedEvil> I like xchat on the phone
May 12 10:22:11 <lcuk> arent we meant to shout vi or emacs or something
May 12 10:23:43 <Termana> EMACS!!!
May 12 10:23:55 <ShadowJK> ruskie, eu copyright law probably doesn't apply if it's about patents?
May 12 10:24:08 <Termana> lcuk, does that satisfy the status quo now? :P
May 12 10:24:21 <lcuk> it would, but you misspelt vi
May 12 10:24:30 * Arkenoi wonders why SE makes quite decent headsets you may even use to listen music and Nokia just sucks big time, all of them
May 12 10:24:46 <Termana> lcuk, :P
May 12 10:24:59 <lcuk> i cant hear anything from the outside world with my nokia headphones in
May 12 10:25:05 <lcuk> they silence out everything
May 12 10:25:25 <lcuk> work really well on device, but on my laptop i only get one channel :S
May 12 10:25:29 <Termana> lcuk, you don't have anyone to hear anyway
May 12 10:25:32 <Termana> :P I keed
May 12 10:26:17 <ShadowJK> they're supposed to silence out the world :P
May 12 10:26:29 <lcuk> they work
May 12 10:26:34 <frals> what model are the "nokia headphones" lcuk? :D
May 12 10:26:49 <lcuk> frals, the ones i got with the n900
May 12 10:26:52 <ShadowJK> I think he refers to the included canalphones
May 12 10:27:03 <Arkenoi> the ones we get with n900 is PoS
May 12 10:27:03 <frals> ah
May 12 10:27:24 <ShadowJK> they go into the earcanal, and the plastic/rubber/silicone ring forms an air-tight seal that block sound
May 12 10:27:26 <Arkenoi> HS-12 that was $100+ are total, complete S.
May 12 10:27:35 <adeus> "still in their original wrappings"
May 12 10:27:44 <adeus> like always the headphones that comes with the device
May 12 10:28:39 <timeless_mbp> when they don't fall out of your ears...
May 12 10:28:46 <Arkenoi> adeus, i ripped of headphones from old SE, and they are almost the same quality as quite decent headphones you may buy for $30-40 separately
May 12 10:29:02 <Arkenoi> not $3 range chinese shit nokia provides
May 12 10:29:28 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, depends on amount and consistency of earwax i assume
May 12 10:29:45 <MohammadAG_> tbh the stock ones are ok for me
May 12 10:30:00 * lcuk distances himself from his previous comment
May 12 10:33:53 <SpeedEvil> ~flashing
May 12 10:33:53 <infobot> methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
May 12 10:34:26 <SpeedEvil> Fuck.
May 12 10:34:44 <SpeedEvil> I plug USB in, holding u, and I get nothing.
May 12 10:34:49 <SpeedEvil> No usb logo
May 12 10:34:53 <frals> "I send logs with it bug author. And nothing to change. He can't resolve this bug. " love how not making a tiny display issue top priority == cant fix
May 12 10:34:57 <SpeedEvil> and it powers off almost immediately.
May 12 10:35:11 <kevloral> hi all
May 12 10:35:14 <MohammadAG_> SpeedEvil, pop out battery, connect USB then insert the battery
May 12 10:35:24 <MohammadAG_> otherwise serial flash it
May 12 10:35:30 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, "turb off device, take battery out, plug in usb, start flasher, wait for flasher to say 'no device', insert battery, profit"
May 12 10:35:37 <lcuk> turn
May 12 10:35:38 <MohammadAG_> beat you to it
May 12 10:35:40 <MohammadAG_> :P
May 12 10:35:50 * lcuk beats you
May 12 10:35:56 <MohammadAG_> lcuk, what good would that do if he wiped the bootloader?
May 12 10:35:58 <MohammadAG_> lol
May 12 10:36:00 <SpeedEvil> while holding u?
May 12 10:36:12 <SpeedEvil> It shows 'nokia'
May 12 10:36:17 <lcuk> my device is always upside down
May 12 10:36:22 <lcuk> ive never seen the screen
May 12 10:36:27 <lcuk> nor pressed a key
May 12 10:37:11 <s|fr> hi all. Somebody here told me not to go for a used n900 because its usually already oc'd? what does that mean? over clocked?
May 12 10:37:52 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
May 12 10:38:19 <d14> you
May 12 10:38:28 <SpeedEvil> It seems to cycle on the nokia/buzz/turn-off - wait - restart thing
May 12 10:38:30 <d14> overlocked
May 12 10:38:33 <SpeedEvil> It will not flash
May 12 10:38:42 <chem|st> "PR 4.2 is the answer to life, the universe and everything!"
May 12 10:38:50 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, flatflatbattery?
May 12 10:38:59 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: I don't think so.
May 12 10:39:02 * SpeedEvil gets dmm
May 12 10:39:07 <SpeedEvil> \
May 12 10:39:46 <chem|st> s|fr: yes overclocked
May 12 10:40:11 <lcuk> s|fr, technically anything you buy second hand can be abused, even purchasing a car from a nice old dear with all certificates doesnt ensure she hasnt been rallying in it
May 12 10:40:27 <s|fr> chem|st, d14: so if it is already overclocked? does it make a difference? Does it break it in some way or is that bad?
May 12 10:40:37 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: thanks - sure I'd have worked that out.
May 12 10:40:54 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, ? flat
May 12 10:40:55 <s|fr> lcuk: yes i am aware of that but that is basic, the way it was highlighted seemed like there was something exception about getting the n900 second hand
May 12 10:41:08 <s|fr> s/exception/exceptional
May 12 10:41:12 <SpeedEvil> s|fr: overclocking is out of spec - it is stated by the manufacturer that it reduces the life of the CPU.
May 12 10:41:20 <chem|st> s|fr: depends on for how long and how much it has been oc'ed generally it decreases lifetime and voids warranty
May 12 10:41:30 <SpeedEvil> s|fr: exactly how this works in practice is another question.
May 12 10:41:33 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: yes
May 12 10:41:45 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: I assumed it couldn't be that,, as it's been plugged into laptop
May 12 10:41:56 <s|fr> SpeedEvil, chem|st: aah, gotcha. thanks for the explanation.
May 12 10:42:11 <chem|st> s|fr: for how that works look up electromigration
May 12 10:42:49 <s|fr> chem|st: cheers.
May 12 10:42:51 <SpeedEvil> If it still works - then in practice - if you flash a stock kernel - even if it's been overclocked - it should not in practice invalidate the warranty
May 12 10:42:55 <SpeedEvil> - as they can't check
May 12 10:43:10 <lcuk> buy new
May 12 10:43:16 <chem|st> s|fr: for telling if it was oc'ed the jtag will help
May 12 10:43:34 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: they can
May 12 10:43:48 <s|fr> chem|st: jtag?
May 12 10:43:54 <lcuk> s|fr, if its something you are concerned about go with a new one
May 12 10:43:54 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: I'm unsure that that's the case.
May 12 10:44:27 <s|fr> lcuk: yes that is what i am considering, but the difference in new and old is almost a 100q
May 12 10:44:31 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: Do you have any links to the page in the datasheet specifying any bits of non-volatile storage in the CPU or elsewhere that are set on overclocks?
May 12 10:44:34 <lcuk> the second hand market has other considerations - someone else got to open the screen
May 12 10:44:39 <lcuk> and put their fingerprints on it
May 12 10:44:43 <lcuk> thats much worse than anything
May 12 10:44:55 <s|fr> lcuk: so im trying to understand the issues involved
May 12 10:45:06 <MohammadAG_> any ideas when the servers will be fixed? I feel tmo-less
May 12 10:45:09 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: I work in micro/nano analytics... it takes me about 10minutes to tell if it was oc'ed or not (with a device not functional anyway as I just ripp it apart)
May 12 10:45:57 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: Umm...
May 12 10:45:59 <SpeedEvil> Bullshit.
May 12 10:46:13 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: jtag is commonly used in phones
May 12 10:46:22 <flux> "oh yeah? well send me who phones, one oc'd, one not, and I'll prove it!"
May 12 10:46:22 <flux> ;)
May 12 10:46:43 <Termana> Lets assume chem|st isn't lying. Do you REALLY think Nokia is going to pull apart all the failed phones coming their way to see if they have been overclocked
May 12 10:46:48 <SpeedEvil> There is absolutely no way in hell they are unsoldering the device, removing the POP NAND/flash chip from on top, etching away the package, and inspecting it with a SEM.
May 12 10:46:58 <Arkenoi> and still no n900's toasted by OC seen anyways ;-)
May 12 10:47:13 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: actually, i would look for heat issues underneath lcd
May 12 10:47:14 <s|fr> Termana: tbh people who oc stuff rarely care about warranties anyway
May 12 10:47:14 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: I am aware of JTAG, and have used it to flash a phone before.
May 12 10:47:39 <MohammadAG_> JTAG works on the N900?
May 12 10:47:41 <SpeedEvil> Arkenoi: There have been no n900s toasted by taking them apart, and putting them together either.
May 12 10:47:59 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: not the n900 - I have not looked for JTAG yet
May 12 10:48:06 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: well maybe the pumping takes a bit longer than 10minutes but I got here REM TEM AES XPS and other stuff just downstairs... (and I can actualy operate all except of REM and TEM myself)
May 12 10:48:29 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: Sure. That's utterly and completley irrelevant though.
May 12 10:49:02 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: There is absolutely no way they are doing this to all incoming non-booting n900s.
May 12 10:49:09 <chem|st> Arkenoi: yes maybe it needs a coupled of month, maybe the design is actualy 800MHz but was instable for some reason so it wont hurt to run 700 or 800 but 801+... you get the deal?
May 12 10:49:34 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: Or maybe the overclocking caution in the manual is simply to encourage sales of the higher speed grade.
May 12 10:49:57 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: I doubt it
May 12 10:50:09 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: you oc'ed?
May 12 10:50:13 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: No.
May 12 10:50:18 * s|fr did not even know electromigration existed but now thinks its v. logical
May 12 10:50:20 <Termana> Might be of interest for everyone to know - Motorola is planning to release a phone with OMAP3430 clocked at 800mhz
May 12 10:50:27 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, didnt intel have to do that with the celeron 300a
May 12 10:50:27 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: would you mind to test for us?
May 12 10:50:28 <Termana> AFAIK
May 12 10:50:31 <Arkenoi> i doubt you really can see a difference between n900 running for days and months on stock overvolted 600MHz and one that occasionally ran 850MHz undervolted for a few minutes
May 12 10:50:31 <lcuk> it was a 66mhz chip
May 12 10:50:34 <SpeedEvil> Termana: there are various speed grades.
May 12 10:50:40 <lcuk> but if you bumped it to 100mhz FSB it was happy
May 12 10:50:45 <Arkenoi> technically both are overclocled, but legally just the second one
May 12 10:50:47 <s|fr> Termana: is that a droid or a meego?
May 12 10:50:49 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: Certainly. If you fund test devices.
May 12 10:51:02 <Termana> s|fr, Android phone, I have seen no commitment to MeeGo from Motorola
May 12 10:51:04 <chem|st> Termana: thats why I just told the 800
May 12 10:51:06 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: I have absolutely no spare cash at the moment. At all.
May 12 10:51:43 <viliny__> heh, oc discussion again
May 12 10:52:23 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: thats why I ask, if you are so sure about you wouldnt deny testing it yourself
May 12 10:53:01 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: It's not a case of denying it - I simply haven't.
May 12 10:53:17 <SpeedEvil> I have however read the requisite sections of the CPU datasheet.
May 12 10:54:45 <jacekowski> ok
May 12 10:54:49 <jacekowski> i resent chromium
May 12 10:54:55 <jacekowski> this time without courgette
May 12 10:55:02 <jacekowski> and they can kiss my ass
May 12 10:55:47 <chem|st> I saw chips still working but having a gap in the lineups of several nanos with a connection of less than 1/5 of the actual width, something like |-| or  \_/
May 12 10:56:23 <crashanddie> dneary: there?
May 12 10:56:25 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: I'm not arguing that electromigration can't be found out - but nokia are not going to be doing it.
May 12 10:57:34 <chem|st> well in case of a few they might not but in case of a hundreds they will
May 12 10:58:04 <jacekowski> tekojo: that letter states that their firmware over the air is used by nokia ( which i assume is licensed ) so in fact nokia can host chromium as they have license for that piece of software
May 12 10:58:45 <tekojo> I don't know, but usually licences have a very specific area of applicability
May 12 10:58:49 <tekojo> I can ask our legal
May 12 10:59:37 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: Even if lots of people were doing it - they are not going to do that. They will at most inspect flash for an overclocked kernel. Anything else costs way more than replacing a motherboard.
May 12 11:00:01 <Tuukka> is it possible to open images with terminal? What command am i supposed to use?
May 12 11:01:49 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: as nokia got the equipment themselves they can do it realy cheap... and for hundreds you just boot up an automatic stage (we do not have but nokia will)
May 12 11:02:13 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: No, they can't.
May 12 11:02:32 <SpeedEvil> They will not have the equipment set up to evaluate _all_ non-booting returns.
May 12 11:02:38 <SpeedEvil> This is clearly insane.
May 12 11:02:46 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: our XPS runs 3 platens full auto, 5-10 hours programming and the beast runs for 4-6 days without one watching
May 12 11:02:59 <SpeedEvil> JTAG inspection of the flash - maybe.
May 12 11:03:06 <SpeedEvil> If it can be automated.
May 12 11:03:14 <SpeedEvil> And pushed out to the shops.
May 12 11:06:02 <lbt> jacekowski: have you contacted corbet at LWN ... would be interesting
May 12 11:07:37 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: darn hell, I ran such stuff myself and we are getting jobs like "please check on the bonds of these 100 chips"... not fully automated, took like forever
May 12 11:08:52 <SpeedEvil> Also - the CPU is a POP
May 12 11:09:08 <jacekowski> well, that courgette is pretty much thing that text diff is doing
May 12 11:09:19 <SpeedEvil> You've got 3? chips on top of the package
May 12 11:09:29 <SpeedEvil> on top of the CPU
May 12 11:09:36 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: you dont know what companies spend in case of large warranty issues, they actualy dont want to check for oc itself but want to know what was wrong so they give the warranty through to their suppliers
May 12 11:09:42 <jacekowski> i suppose converting original binary file and new one to hex form with one byte per line
May 12 11:09:49 <jacekowski> and then diffing them
May 12 11:09:56 <jacekowski> would have similiar result to courgette
May 12 11:10:08 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: Of course. You investigate customer returns as a sampling measure and for reliability.
May 12 11:10:32 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: You absolutely do not perform extensive teardowns on everything to catch every screwy thing users may have done.
May 12 11:12:05 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: no you don't! but most of the time we find stuff like this by accident when actualy looking for another answer to a completely different question!
May 12 11:13:14 <jacekowski> lbt: what's his e-mail address?
May 12 11:13:18 <jacekowski> lbt: or jabber
May 12 11:13:33 <chem|st> so nokia returns the omap chips as they give the fault... so Ti now got about 300 chips on their desk, bin or basket?
May 12 11:13:55 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: I doubt it.
May 12 11:14:11 <SpeedEvil> chem|st: The omap costs - IIRC - probably $25 in volume.
May 12 11:14:24 <chem|st> basket and up to the lab as another huge customer just ordered 120k chips of the same kind
May 12 11:14:25 <SpeedEvil> It's not worth the hastle of them trying to do warranty returns.
May 12 11:14:38 <SpeedEvil> Even if that was possible.
May 12 11:14:45 <lbt> http://lwn.net/op/FAQ.lwn#contact  just lwn@lwn.net would be fine - let them know what's happened
May 12 11:15:04 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: I assume it's a really minor patch?
May 12 11:15:14 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: yes
May 12 11:15:19 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: it's unused anyways
May 12 11:15:31 <smhar> is it possible/easy to double boot two OSes in N900? not Andriod and maemo, but 2 maemo. one for the normal use and the other for experimentation
May 12 11:15:41 <jacekowski> no
May 12 11:15:42 <SpeedEvil> smhar: possible, yes
May 12 11:15:46 <SpeedEvil> yes it is
May 12 11:15:52 <jacekowski> possible - yeas
May 12 11:15:55 <jacekowski> easy - no
May 12 11:15:58 <lbt> jacekowski: it would be nice to help them put together a piece for next edition - maybe get some EFF input too
May 12 11:16:45 <smhar> SpeedEvil, jacekowski, any link on how to do it?
May 12 11:16:45 <lbt> (I say this as I don't really know what's going on and I'd like to ... and I'm sure others would too)
May 12 11:16:47 <SpeedEvil> http://www.maemonokian900.com/maemo-news/dual-booting-mer-on-nokia-n900/ see
May 12 11:16:49 <SpeedEvil> smhar:
May 12 11:17:16 <smhar> thanks SpeedEvil
May 12 11:17:18 <SpeedEvil> smhar: also - with a new kernel with mmc and kexec support - it should be possible to dual boot.
May 12 11:17:37 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: kexec has some re-entry usage, for example, external mmc breaks
May 12 11:17:40 <SpeedEvil> Using a kernel commandline with something like root=/dev/mmcblk1p1 or root=/dev/ubifs
May 12 11:17:42 <Stskeeps> problems, that is
May 12 11:17:45 <Stskeeps> we're looking into it
May 12 11:17:48 <SpeedEvil> ah
May 12 11:17:50 <SpeedEvil> k
May 12 11:17:58 <SpeedEvil> well - flasher -k would in principle work
May 12 11:18:17 <SpeedEvil> Or the 'early check for keyboard out and run script in 1.1' that I've forgotten the URL of
May 12 11:21:37 <MohammadAG_> SpeedEvil, it's in Qole's repo afaik
May 12 11:21:59 <MohammadAG_> bootmenu-1.8
May 12 11:22:14 <Stskeeps> no, bootmenu-n900 in extras-devel
May 12 11:23:24 <MohammadAG_> I don't use it
May 12 11:25:43 <lbt> Stskeeps: OMG... fake-scratchbox... everything used to link to /scratchbox/tools/bin/ ... now it's /scratchbox/tools/autotools/automake-1.9/share/automake-1.9/missing   /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486/arch_tools/share/libtool/ltmain.sh etc....
May 12 11:26:44 * lbt grabs hold of scratchbox and dremmels its eyeballs out
May 12 11:31:24 * lcuk gets lbt a towel to mop up blood splatter
May 12 11:34:36 <X-Fade> go lbt, go lbt!
May 12 11:36:03 <X-Fade> jacekowski: Quick response ;)
May 12 11:38:50 <jacekowski> fight the power
May 12 11:38:58 <jacekowski> and tell red bend to bend over
May 12 11:39:38 <lcuk> lbt swap that dremel for an axe
May 12 11:39:58 <lbt> with a dremmel it's personal...
May 12 11:40:11 <lcuk> lbt its also slower
May 12 11:40:23 * lbt nods and smiles evilly
May 12 11:40:26 <lcuk> tho you can make those fancy curvy bits easier
May 12 11:41:19 <lbt> X-Fade: what versions of scratchbox do we need to support in the OBS?
May 12 11:41:50 <SpeedEvil> Blunt spoon++
May 12 11:42:02 * chem|st wishes abill_uk would be here and the bot was working properly
May 12 11:45:37 <jacekowski> ok
May 12 11:45:44 <jacekowski> chromium is almsot back in repo
May 12 11:46:32 <dneary> crashanddie, Now I'm here
May 12 11:48:01 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: Hmm. How much smaller is this binary? And how many more unused bits can you rip out! :)
May 12 11:48:28 <SpeedEvil> Woo - 76.5M free on /
May 12 11:52:11 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: i suppose something about half
May 12 11:53:08 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. <blink> <marquee> - and who really needs uppercase?
May 12 11:53:49 <inz> <span style="color: white; background: white;">                        </span>
May 12 11:55:57 <wall[e]> http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash
May 12 11:56:20 <wall[e]> should...  The device creates a default /home in NAND....
May 12 11:56:45 <wall[e]> should mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1 b /dev/mmcblk0p2
May 12 11:57:17 <wall[e]> sfdisk -c /dev/mmcblk0 2 83
May 12 11:57:18 <wall[e]> mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1
May 12 11:57:34 <wall[e]> should I edit to p2?
May 12 11:59:10 <SpeedEvil> the default home is not in nand
May 12 11:59:16 <SpeedEvil> it's on the emmc
May 12 11:59:19 <SpeedEvil> only / is on nand
May 12 11:59:36 <wall[e]> SpeedEvil, that was meant to be searched for the line
May 12 12:00:02 <wall[e]> the line i want to fix is mkfs.ext3
May 12 12:00:27 <wall[e]> it create fs in wrong partition
May 12 12:00:40 <bullet_> hey all
May 12 12:00:55 <bullet_> ppl running opera on m5 ?
May 12 12:01:31 <crashanddie> bullet`: do you have a full keyboard?
May 12 12:01:38 <bullet`> yes
May 12 12:01:44 <crashanddie> then use it
May 12 12:01:48 <bullet`> rigth now typing on my laptop
May 12 12:01:51 <bullet`> ok i'll try
May 12 12:01:59 <crashanddie> thanks
May 12 12:02:02 <bullet`> so people running opera ?
May 12 12:02:23 <bullet`> i'm getting this "unable to install opera-mobile, application package not found"
May 12 12:02:38 <bullet`> any idea of a work around ?
May 12 12:02:47 <tybollt> no idea
May 12 12:03:00 <tybollt> I get the same when I try to install Internet Explorer. :-(
May 12 12:03:25 <bullet`> i mean, opera on n900.
May 12 12:03:33 <Appiah> o_O
May 12 12:04:03 <bullet`> whats do those symbols mean Appiah ?
May 12 12:04:59 <Shapeshifter> O_o
May 12 12:05:17 <bullet`> 0 O
May 12 12:05:26 <DocScrutinizer> .oO(??)
May 12 12:05:37 <Appiah> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=O_O
May 12 12:05:38 <bullet`> i was talking about Opera ppl :p
May 12 12:07:15 <DocScrutinizer> mooo
May 12 12:07:59 * DocScrutinizer googles opera-ppl
May 12 12:08:06 <bullet`> ahh
May 12 12:08:15 <bullet`> google for opera-mobile
May 12 12:08:20 <bullet`> ppl was for people :)
May 12 12:08:47 <wall[e]> thanks
May 12 12:08:52 <wall[e]> i want ppl too
May 12 12:08:55 <wall[e]> i am a people
May 12 12:08:59 <wall[e]> where is my ppl
May 12 12:08:59 <DocScrutinizer> I see, the 'e' and 'o' key rather worn out already, I guess
May 12 12:09:02 <bullet`> its not released yet
May 12 12:09:15 <bullet`> no its not worn out, it was just not used
May 12 12:09:35 <bullet`> its ok,
May 12 12:09:49 <DocScrutinizer> /mode +o #maemo crashanddie
May 12 12:09:56 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
May 12 12:10:12 <tybollt> yes it's quite enough now
May 12 12:10:31 <viliny__> anyone have any idea why flash videos aren't working in ff fennec?
May 12 12:10:49 <viliny__> i see flash adds working after the plugin disable false in about:config but the main video on website does not load
May 12 12:10:51 <bullet`> but my question was, are many people facing problems installing the beta opera on n900 ?
May 12 12:10:52 <viliny__> missing codecs?
May 12 12:10:58 <tybollt> viliny__: tried the beta? perhaps it is fixed?
May 12 12:11:22 <wall[e]> final fantasy?
May 12 12:11:29 <wall[e]> shopping!
May 12 12:11:49 <viliny__> tybollt: i would imagine i have the latest -> 1.0.1?
May 12 12:13:12 <tybollt> viliny__: beta is 1.1b1
May 12 12:13:32 <SpeedEvil> some flash sites require >9.?
May 12 12:15:04 <viliny__> tybollt: ok that i don't have, neither can i find it in the repos... where could i try it out?
May 12 12:15:10 <viliny__> SpeedEvil: same video works in microb
May 12 12:15:17 <SpeedEvil> k\\
May 12 12:17:15 <tybollt> http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/m/beta
May 12 12:17:28 <tybollt> but ye
May 12 12:17:34 <tybollt> what speedy says
May 12 12:17:52 <tybollt> if site requires flassh 10 you're SOL
May 12 12:18:20 <Shapeshifter> flash ftl
May 12 12:18:27 <Shapeshifter> people should stop freaking out about having flash support
May 12 12:18:41 <viliny__> thanks tybollt
May 12 12:18:53 <viliny__> and as i said, same video works with microb
May 12 12:19:19 <tybollt> no Shapeshifter
May 12 12:19:24 <tybollt> video FTL
May 12 12:19:33 <viliny__> i'm not freaking out either, watching streaming episodes on phone is useful and wondering if ff does a better job at it... just testing
May 12 12:19:56 <tybollt> did you read up on the ownews (was it?) piece about that?
May 12 12:20:00 <tybollt> osnews
May 12 12:20:16 <viliny__> about flash10?
May 12 12:20:34 <DocScrutinizer> ~wtf sol
May 12 12:20:36 <infobot> SOL: shit out [of] luck
May 12 12:21:30 <tybollt> Shapeshifter: Basically all video is royaltyware MPEG LA - even the stuff you record on your camcorder
May 12 12:21:50 <tybollt> there is no "free" in computer video.
May 12 12:22:07 * DocScrutinizer cheers to SpeedEvil
May 12 12:22:11 <tybollt> everything is as locked in as flash really. So utterly foofed
May 12 12:24:28 <Termana> tybollt, surely your not talking about Jobs' accusations against Vorbis?
May 12 12:24:59 <Termana> That or your forgetting about Vorbis
May 12 12:25:36 <Termana> err... Theora rather
May 12 12:26:17 <Termana> Vorbis is audio, Theora is video
May 12 12:26:21 <Termana> IIRC
May 12 12:26:34 <tybollt> Termana: Tell me what JVC, Sony or other camcorder readily available in stores today that records in Ogg/Theora/Vorbis/thingamajig?
May 12 12:27:43 <Termana> tybollt, probably none - but that does not mean all video formats are "royaltyware" as you just implied
May 12 12:28:09 <thresh> who cares for theora anyway
May 12 12:28:31 <viliny__> i don't even know what theora is
May 12 12:28:41 <thresh> that is probably a good thing
May 12 12:28:52 <Termana> thresh, GTFO or I'll H.264 your arse. You'll be shitting proprietary
May 12 12:29:10 <tybollt> Termana: Everything that is usable basically and as soon Ogg/Theora gaisn traction they will be sued into onblivion and shut down  before you know it
May 12 12:29:17 <thresh> only freetards believe theora doesnt have any patent problems.
May 12 12:30:22 <ruskie> tybollt, MPEG_LA believes that fairy tail... no need for the rest of the world to do so
May 12 12:30:27 <SpeedEvil> This is all going to be quite irrelevant in a coupole of years - when uncompressed mbmp becomes the format of choice, as the only unencumbered format.
May 12 12:30:55 <Termana> thresh, thats a nice iPad you must own. You probably own an iPhone, an iPod Touch, an iPod, an iPod Nano and if Steve Jobs asked you to have ghey sex with him, you would faint in disbelief that your god would want to do that
May 12 12:31:10 <thresh> Termana: there's nothing proprietary in computer video (provided you don't live in a world's worst country)
May 12 12:31:31 <tybollt> SpeedEvil: was it you or someone else who said that about Ogg/Theora five years ago? ;P
May 12 12:31:37 <thresh> haha that was nice :)
May 12 12:31:42 <SpeedEvil> Not me
May 12 12:33:11 <tybollt> thresh: if there's nothing proprietary... then howcome I still can only play a bluray disc in any of two programs available at all?
May 12 12:33:17 <tybollt> and both of them are for windows
May 12 12:33:23 <tybollt> \o/
May 12 12:33:31 <viliny__> tybollt: tried the new beta but no luck, big empty where the flash content should be. damn
May 12 12:33:32 <thresh> tybollt: this SoC will probably have this fixed.
May 12 12:33:40 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: alas when these happy times arrive we will have all the music fubar by mp3-128k, and same for video I guess
May 12 12:34:03 <DocScrutinizer> s/all the/all the already existing
May 12 12:34:41 <SpeedEvil> Don't forget all fed through a compressor to leave 1.5dB of dynamic range
May 12 12:35:27 <tybollt> thresh: how? GSOC is based in US innit? Means all the legal BS still apply no?
May 12 12:35:29 <DocScrutinizer> and as everybody ruined his ears with cheap mp3 players and his eyes with watching 'videos' on his 2.8 gameboy screen, nobody will care about high quality formats
May 12 12:36:19 <viliny__> i don't need bluerays and other junk tbh - i'm actually perfectly fine with watching 640x480 divx :)
May 12 12:37:27 <DocScrutinizer> viliny__: I agree - a 640*480 divx with good quality is more fun to watch than a HD-shit with lots of artefacts
May 12 12:37:30 <thresh> tybollt: no idea about where it's based or other boring stuff :) BD-J will probably be implemented in VLC and libbluray.
May 12 12:37:46 * DocScrutinizer curses DVB
May 12 12:37:50 * thresh just bought a netbook solely for a purpose of playing back HD video
May 12 12:37:53 <Surfa> .. gaah.. my eyes.. hd it must be
May 12 12:38:14 <X-Fade> lbt: Only SB1
May 12 12:39:31 <lbt> X-Fade: which release? it seems to have changed
May 12 12:39:43 <lbt> Termana: did you see this yesterday ? http://apina.biz/29334.jpg
May 12 12:41:11 <DocScrutinizer> what a idiotic/smart concept to filter sounds out of mp3 that I'm supposed not to hear, and mange video to reduce detail which I'm supposed not to see - I SEE/HEAR IT NEVERTHELESS
May 12 12:41:11 <X-Fade> lbt: http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo5-sdk/main/binary-i386/
May 12 12:41:15 <tybollt> thresh: that's awesome but still - the keys are needed aren't they?
May 12 12:41:18 <X-Fade> lbt: 1.0.16
May 12 12:41:34 <Termana> lbt, I believe so, plus its in my bookmarks, but its not showing for some reason at the moment - isn't that the picture about the iPad and at the end it has a cartoon of Jobs with 2 ipads for multi tasking and the angry face :P
May 12 12:41:41 <DocScrutinizer> mangle even
May 12 12:41:42 <lbt> yes
May 12 12:41:46 <thresh> tybollt: sure.
May 12 12:41:58 <Termana> lbt, I actually laughed out loud for that :P
May 12 12:42:21 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, as you have openmoko in your vhost i would like to ask you something
May 12 12:42:36 <DocScrutinizer> vhost?
May 12 12:43:03 <DocScrutinizer> ahh cloak
May 12 12:43:05 <tybollt> thresh: keys which ... one supposedly needs to pay money for. Or?
May 12 12:43:41 <lbt> X-Fade: OK ... we need to update fake-scratchbox. We'll pre-install all the packages it provides and then just x-link them
May 12 12:43:54 <DocScrutinizer> darn, seems it's going to be a looong question
May 12 12:44:12 <Termana> DocScrutinizer, go grab some sort of stress reliever and then come back
May 12 12:44:14 <thresh> tybollt: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 here you go :p
May 12 12:44:14 <Termana> :P
May 12 12:44:28 <viliny__> heh, got good laughs from the ipad jpeg :P
May 12 12:44:29 <ZogG> * [DocScrutinizer] (~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg): joerg
May 12 12:44:31 <ZogG> this
May 12 12:44:43 <thresh> tybollt: they are even available on pedowikia.
May 12 12:45:07 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, so my question is how hard to port app from openmoko to maemo?
May 12 12:45:42 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: probably not harder / easier than porting from any other platform
May 12 12:45:55 <SpeedEvil> Depends slightly on what your platform is
May 12 12:45:56 <viliny__> ...pedowikia?
May 12 12:46:01 <SpeedEvil> qtmoko - possibly quite easy
May 12 12:46:04 <GAN900> Ah, Chriz Ziegler
May 12 12:46:05 <SpeedEvil> for the new version
May 12 12:46:12 <GAN900> 'Maemo's official forums'
May 12 12:46:19 <thresh> viliny__: some people also call it 'wikipedia'.
May 12 12:46:20 <SpeedEvil> gkt environment, quite likely easy
May 12 12:46:29 <viliny__> thresh whats funny about pedowikia?
May 12 12:46:43 <DocScrutinizer> ~smack GAN900
May 12 12:46:44 <thresh> viliny__: everything?
May 12 12:46:54 <viliny__> :/
May 12 12:47:09 <tybollt> thresh: :) very well then
May 12 12:47:24 <DocScrutinizer> (she's really a bitch)
May 12 12:47:41 <ZogG> SpeedEvil i think it's gtk
May 12 12:47:43 <viliny__> like in... encyclopedia?
May 12 12:47:49 <chem|st> thresh: what is the matter with you? did too many drugs at once? or less than usual?
May 12 12:47:54 <ZogG> just found an other open gps app
May 12 12:48:02 <thresh> chem|st: yes.
May 12 12:48:04 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: SHR is GTK
May 12 12:48:14 <SpeedEvil> ZogG: tangogps?
May 12 12:48:24 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: QtMoko is... guess what
May 12 12:48:32 <chem|st> thresh: so both less from one but too many of the other?
May 12 12:48:34 <viliny__> heh... is the ball red or blue? "Yes."
May 12 12:48:35 <ZogG> SpeedEvil, yup
May 12 12:48:36 <SpeedEvil> It will need to be ported over to understand the location framework
May 12 12:48:46 <thresh> chem|st: having a bad time trying to get backups up and running after 20T filesystem corruption.
May 12 12:49:06 <chem|st> thresh: oh so less sleep aswell
May 12 12:49:07 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: which shouldn't be TOO hard
May 12 12:50:14 <DocScrutinizer> alas the tangoGPS original author seems to have vanished from the public
May 12 12:50:46 <ZogG> he just went back to his planet
May 12 12:50:58 <DocScrutinizer> yep, something like that
May 12 12:51:46 <ZogG> the most wierd story about open sorce dev was about reiser dev
May 12 12:51:51 <jacekowski> 13:35 < X-Fade> jacekowski: Quick response ;)
May 12 12:51:52 <jacekowski> ?
May 12 12:51:54 <jacekowski> X-Fade: ?
May 12 12:51:57 <DocScrutinizer> nah please!!!
May 12 12:52:08 <alterego> Looks like I'm going to be sacked on Friday -_-
May 12 12:52:19 <jacekowski> alterego: what have you done?
May 12 12:52:43 <alterego> I think I'm being the fall guy.
May 12 12:53:09 <alterego> It's been ongoing for about 6 months, but it should all be over by the end of this week I suspect.
May 12 12:53:40 <tybollt> alterego: what do you do then?
May 12 12:53:52 <alterego> I'm a software engineer,
May 12 12:53:53 <ZogG> SpeedEvil, also if you want to port something gtk←→qt (both ends) does it mean you have to rewrite everything or just you can adopt code to new UI?
May 12 12:54:19 <SpeedEvil> ZogG: yes
May 12 12:56:13 <DocScrutinizer> rodarvus: ([2010-05-12 12:12:46] <rodarvus> DocScrutinizer51, I was able...) A big Thank You! :-) much appreciated
May 12 12:56:39 <ZogG> SpeedEvil, it was «OR» question =)
May 12 12:57:52 <tybollt> alterego: sigh... but programers should be able to find new jobs easily I supposed
May 12 12:57:55 <tybollt> suppose...
May 12 12:58:16 <SpeedEvil> ZogG: You either need to rewrite completely, or adapt the code.
May 12 12:58:43 <SpeedEvil> ZogG: It depends how structured the program is - and how much it relies on features of each.
May 12 12:58:49 <SpeedEvil> And how large it is.
May 12 12:58:58 <DocScrutinizer> thought we got GTK on N900... o.O
May 12 12:59:17 <SpeedEvil> If the core is a couple of dozen lines, and the interface code is 1000, porting it may not make much sense.
May 12 12:59:19 <SpeedEvil> yes - that too
May 12 12:59:35 <SpeedEvil> there is gtk on the device - and it seems likley to be remaining for the newar future
May 12 13:00:37 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer yes we do - but moving to QT, i'm of guys who prefer not to make zoo of the libs from different toolkits =)
May 12 13:00:43 <Gizmokid2005> anyone having any issues connecting to an AIM account with the conversations plugin?
May 12 13:01:12 <ZogG> also if you port it to QT you can port it to any device much easier
May 12 13:01:21 <alterego> tybollt: that would be true, but I don't have any qualifications :/
May 12 13:01:36 <tybollt> uhm... ?
May 12 13:01:54 <alterego> Getting a job being easy, sort of hard if you don't have a degree.
May 12 13:02:20 <pupnik> make one up
May 12 13:02:34 <alterego> Heh
May 12 13:02:49 <alterego> I have a 2.1 in Eyecandy ^.^
May 12 13:03:23 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: that's all valid, true and fine. Anyway we'll see a lot of GTK apps on N900 for quite some years I'd guess
May 12 13:04:12 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer if n900 would survive that long
May 12 13:04:12 <DocScrutinizer> so it's really up to you if you want to do a low effort GTK port, or same time migrate to Qt
May 12 13:04:24 <GAN900> I need to get a BL-5J charger that isn't a 5800
May 12 13:05:01 <RST38h> Will N97 do? =)
May 12 13:05:08 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, i'm more theoretical guy right now - as don't know that much about coding and don't ahve anytime =(
May 12 13:05:25 <ZogG> GAN900, what's wrong with 5800?
May 12 13:06:14 <alterego> GAN900: http://thpmaemo.blogspot.com/2009/12/charging-bl-5j-n900-battery-in-n810.html
May 12 13:06:39 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: I'm planning to use my N900 for the next 5 years at least
May 12 13:07:00 <ZogG> i think until i get better job me too =)
May 12 13:07:10 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: get a generic one
May 12 13:07:47 <SpeedEvil> The UI is fundamentally OK and fast enough. And in 5 years, it's got maybe 256G of flash cheaply.
May 12 13:08:07 <SpeedEvil> err - 288.
May 12 13:08:24 <DocScrutinizer> 288???
May 12 13:08:30 <SpeedEvil> I would hope that SDs are available with more sane block interface
May 12 13:08:34 <SpeedEvil> 256+32
May 12 13:08:45 <DocScrutinizer> ugh
May 12 13:08:51 <DocScrutinizer> aaah
May 12 13:09:25 * DocScrutinizer grabs his 2nd glass of coffee
May 12 13:09:33 <ZogG> SpeedEvil don't think SDs would be same size and standart
May 12 13:09:44 * tybollt hands doc a cup
May 12 13:09:44 <DocScrutinizer> it will
May 12 13:09:46 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, it's not healthy you know
May 12 13:10:00 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: SDXC
May 12 13:10:22 <DocScrutinizer> compatible aiui
May 12 13:10:29 <SpeedEvil> ZogG: SDXC is just coming on stream - and it's just a software tweak to get them supported
May 12 13:10:50 <tybollt> SpeedEvil: curent HW going to be compatible w/ sd >32GB?
May 12 13:11:05 <DocScrutinizer> good question
May 12 13:11:12 <SpeedEvil> I would expect a 256g microsdxc to support lower voltages, and a faster interface too - but it'll almost certainly be backwards compatible.
May 12 13:11:21 <SpeedEvil> tybollt: As I understand it, yes.
May 12 13:11:33 * Arkenoi wonders why it takes two years to put 32Gb microSD to mass production
May 12 13:11:45 <SpeedEvil> Arkenoi: Prices.
May 12 13:11:47 <tybollt> SpeedEvil: lovely
May 12 13:11:52 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer SpeedEvil but we are talking about 5 years
May 12 13:12:05 <thresh> Arkenoi: shitloads of non-sold 16gb microSD? :)
May 12 13:12:09 <SpeedEvil> ZogG: Sure - sdxc is launching at 32G.
May 12 13:12:19 <tybollt> SpeedEvil: I'd expect there to be a SDHC type cap somewhere prior to 256GB but...
May 12 13:12:49 <SpeedEvil> tybollt: The interface to the SD is basically similar to a network interface.
May 12 13:12:56 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, yes. So it will take ~28h to 'dd if=/dev/random of=/media/mmc1'
May 12 13:12:57 <ZogG> today we have dozens of cpu types when several years ago it was pentium 1 -2 -3 -4 and now it's not like that. it's more like tree
May 12 13:13:17 <thresh> well that's just not true
May 12 13:13:18 <SpeedEvil> tybollt: It's not really deeply programmed to support the SD/... protocol
May 12 13:13:38 <DocScrutinizer> SDHC is end of the road with 32G
May 12 13:13:43 <thresh> we had a lot of cpus ten or fifteen years ago. they just died.
May 12 13:13:48 <SpeedEvil> powerpc
May 12 13:13:50 <ZogG> "Samsung Rolls Out 256GB SD Memory Card"
May 12 13:13:54 <SpeedEvil> (which is mostly dead)
May 12 13:14:06 <SpeedEvil> ZogG: that's gigabits
May 12 13:14:07 <Arkenoi> powerpc is not quite dead
May 12 13:14:13 <SpeedEvil> mostly
May 12 13:14:20 <SpeedEvil> freescale still sells them for use in cars.
May 12 13:14:24 <thresh> not really dead
May 12 13:14:39 <Arkenoi> some game consoles still use it afair
May 12 13:14:43 <SpeedEvil> alpha is dead?
May 12 13:14:44 <thresh> some? :))
May 12 13:14:51 <tybollt> SpeedEvil: nokia strategy "sorry you need that new phone to support that type of card" why would this strategy not apply for N900?
May 12 13:14:55 <thresh> wii, ps3, xbox360 arent "some"
May 12 13:14:57 <SpeedEvil> mips is going strong.
May 12 13:15:00 <ZogG> SpeedEvil i meant not different companies i meant the same company
May 12 13:15:07 <SpeedEvil> tybollt: we can build our own kernels.
May 12 13:15:31 <ZogG> now we have analogs of the same company, cpu for that and that.
May 12 13:15:52 <Arkenoi> but i doubt ppc will ever reclaim desktop market
May 12 13:16:11 <RST38h> Moo Arkenoi
May 12 13:16:21 <Arkenoi> moo
May 12 13:16:49 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: 2..3 processors from intel nowadays? wake up guy!
May 12 13:17:07 <SpeedEvil> They sold strongarm
May 12 13:18:03 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: sorry scratch that
May 12 13:18:08 <DocScrutinizer> misread
May 12 13:19:05 <ZogG> they just don't go straight road anymore
May 12 13:19:09 <DocScrutinizer> (and to whom it may concern, I prefer my late macchiato in a large *glass* rather than a cup)
May 12 13:19:15 * DocScrutinizer grabs coffee
May 12 13:20:07 <ZogG> i prefer only 2-3 types of glass than a cup, otherwise i would liek a cup
May 12 13:20:34 <DocScrutinizer> you bet hat glass serves me fine
May 12 13:21:35 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer i'm happy when you are happy
May 12 13:22:10 <DocScrutinizer> don't say that, you never experienced it yet ;-P
May 12 13:22:37 <ZogG> yeap, and all orgasms were fake too =(
May 12 13:22:48 <MohammadAG> o.O
May 12 13:23:07 <ZogG> Openfree, have you seen Closedexpensive?
May 12 13:23:13 <ZogG> MohammadAG, hey
May 12 13:24:05 <GAN900> alterego, no N810 here.
May 12 13:24:42 <Shapeshifter> tybollt: interesting
May 12 13:24:53 <Shapeshifter> tybollt: ogm :)
May 12 13:26:10 <GAN900> SpeedEvil, IBM's pushing PPC still.
May 12 13:26:17 <alterego> GAN900: unlucky :(
May 12 13:26:26 <GAN900> meh
May 12 13:26:31 <GAN900> Hated the keyboard.
May 12 13:26:55 <RST38h> IBM is still pushing AS400, so it is not saying much...
May 12 13:27:32 <GAN900> Well, Power 4, 5 etc.
May 12 13:27:45 <GAN900> It's a bit more advanced than an AS400
May 12 13:28:06 <thresh> yeah, like those would not be needed to support old installations in critical areas.
May 12 13:28:45 <alterego> GAN900: the N810 keypad?
May 12 13:29:06 <GAN900> alterego, yes.
May 12 13:30:35 <alterego> Didn't think it was too bad, do you prefer the N900's? :P
May 12 13:34:23 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: well, if it wasn't a question of individual preferences, I'd say you're insane
May 12 13:34:39 <alterego> Heh
May 12 13:35:13 <alterego> I quite liked the N810 keypad, not sure if I prefer the N900's, the fact it's smaller, kind of makes it lose points, but then, the keys are easier I think.
May 12 13:36:16 <SpeedEvil> I got up to 30wpm in quite short order - using it for a week basically
May 12 13:36:19 <crashanddie> a lot easier
May 12 13:36:52 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: then otoh when I consider your live-reporter action words-per-minute on N900, I have to admit N900 is the right kbd for you ;-D
May 12 13:36:52 <crashanddie> alterego: the n810's keyboard had almost no tactile feedback, even sliding between keys provided no feedback
May 12 13:36:56 <Disconnect> i keep hitting m instead of space. :/
May 12 13:37:14 <MohammadAG> you'll get used to it
May 12 13:37:15 <alterego> Disconnect: I got that for a while, not so much anymore :)
May 12 13:37:17 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: he's used to playing with small things :P
May 12 13:37:23 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
May 12 13:37:26 <cehteh> uurgs btrfs for meego? ...
May 12 13:37:47 <cehteh> i like it, but in my experiments so far i was always able to crash it, its not really stable yet
May 12 13:38:03 <DocScrutinizer> Disconnect: same here
May 12 13:39:41 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: no,myou'remgoingmtomgetusedmtomitm;-P
May 12 13:40:13 <MohammadAG> Imalreadymgotmusedmtomit
May 12 13:40:53 <MohammadAG> :P
May 12 13:41:58 <DocScrutinizer> bhappit'nobackspacinsteaom
May 12 13:42:13 <lbt> any python / unicode people here?
May 12 13:42:21 <lbt> I'm trying to do codecs.ascii.encode(res.group('version'), 'replace')
May 12 13:42:39 <lbt> and codecs.ascii is wrong
May 12 13:42:46 <lbt> despite http://docs.python.org/library/codecs.html#standard-encodings
May 12 13:45:19 * DocScrutinizer cloudy recalls to have seen similar thing in USSDpad
May 12 13:45:35 <DocScrutinizer> maybe not
May 12 13:46:19 <wall[e]> why my n900 is mounted as 6D46-96EE, i wonder
May 12 13:46:28 <wall[e]> over an ubuntu
May 12 13:46:34 <wall[e]> i repartitioned it
May 12 13:46:48 <MohammadAG__> vendor ID and something
May 12 13:46:56 <MohammadAG__> device ID i think
May 12 13:47:04 <MohammadAG__> lsusb to find out
May 12 13:47:11 <ruskie> wall[e], disxid
May 12 13:47:37 <wall[e]> ah, thanks
May 12 13:47:39 <DocScrutinizer> yo
May 12 13:47:41 <wall[e]> can I change it?
May 12 13:47:52 <wall[e]> to CuteCuteN900 as usual?
May 12 13:48:01 <ruskie> wall[e], you could use tune2fs to add a label
May 12 13:48:09 <wall[e]> ruskie, thanks!
May 12 13:48:10 <ruskie> I think ubuntu might respect that
May 12 13:48:19 <wall[e]> poNy900
May 12 13:48:21 <DocScrutinizer> prolly
May 12 13:48:22 <wall[e]> ok
May 12 13:48:44 <DocScrutinizer> though on buntkuh you never know
May 12 13:48:48 <ruskie> true
May 12 13:49:00 <DocScrutinizer> http://xkcd.com/424/
May 12 13:49:46 <alterego> What's the keyboard shortcut to open the terminal?
May 12 13:50:06 <DocScrutinizer> might as well display "Shuttleworth" for the name
May 12 13:50:15 <E0x> my n900 on archlinux is get mount as n900
May 12 13:50:33 <E0x> the but not get the n900 icon setup to the volumen
May 12 13:50:39 <E0x> like windows does
May 12 13:50:44 <E0x> :(
May 12 13:50:49 <joga> alterego: ctrl-shift-x
May 12 13:51:02 <wall[e]> haha
May 12 13:51:12 <alterego> joga: thanks ;)
May 12 13:51:22 <wall[e]> E0x, it uses .n900.ico ?
May 12 13:51:44 <E0x> look like windows does
May 12 13:51:56 <E0x> but gnome don't do the trick
May 12 13:52:02 <DocScrutinizer> what's windows?
May 12 13:52:09 <wall[e]> i think gnome don't bother parsing autorun
May 12 13:52:19 <wall[e]> i admire that!
May 12 13:52:19 <DocScrutinizer> lol muhaha
May 12 13:52:26 <E0x> wall[e]: is work with my Bad company cd
May 12 13:52:32 <E0x> it*
May 12 13:52:55 <E0x> when i put the Bad Company cd , gnome put the icon of BC on it
May 12 13:53:02 <wall[e]> oh
May 12 13:53:04 <MohammadAG__> .ico?
May 12 13:53:08 * DocScrutinizer is going to write a .bat JIT-compiler and shell to execute
May 12 13:53:27 <wall[e]> for autorun?
May 12 13:53:37 <E0x> MohammadAG__: hmm not sure
May 12 13:53:45 <DocScrutinizer> finally!!!! msdos batch file run on linux
May 12 13:53:59 <wall[e]> may be you can try dosbox?
May 12 13:54:05 <DocScrutinizer> blah
May 12 13:54:09 <wall[e]> if you were serious but you didn't
May 12 13:54:09 <DocScrutinizer> too simple
May 12 13:54:45 <wall[e]> i want ecma compiler
May 12 13:55:12 <ZogG> MohammadAG__ today is especially horny?
May 12 13:55:35 <MohammadAG> x.x
May 12 13:55:37 <wall[e]> on mac it has .VolumeIcon.icns
May 12 13:55:45 <wall[e]> what gnome use for icon?
May 12 13:55:59 <MohammadAG> .png
May 12 13:56:00 <DocScrutinizer> lol
May 12 13:56:02 <MohammadAG> or .xpm
May 12 13:56:15 <wall[e]> i want apng!
May 12 13:56:34 <MohammadAG> i want mp4
May 12 13:56:37 <MohammadAG> seriously...
May 12 13:56:55 <wall[e]> i want 3d w/o glasses ts
May 12 13:57:09 * DocScrutinizer considers each report of 'doesn't behave like windows' to be a feature rather than a problem
May 12 13:57:20 <wall[e]> but i guess that must choose between portrait and landscape
May 12 13:57:50 * wall[e] never use windows
May 12 13:57:52 <DocScrutinizer> wall[e]: nope - just use frontcam for iris detection
May 12 13:58:24 <alterego> I like Ari acting all sad talking about the N900 and Palm developing a device on their code and getting it done before Nokia ^.^
May 12 13:58:34 * DocScrutinizer wonders who's got that patent
May 12 13:58:37 <wall[e]> ah interesting
May 12 13:58:41 <DocScrutinizer> somebody does, for sure
May 12 13:59:31 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: yeah, but quite late to comment on that one
May 12 14:00:16 <wall[e]> how do i query current volume label?
May 12 14:00:39 <alterego> :)
May 12 14:00:45 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: also shows Nokia hasn't yet got their heads wrapped around the whole FOSS thing yet
May 12 14:00:48 <alterego> I'm watching the Linux Collaboration summit
May 12 14:00:59 <alterego> presentations
May 12 14:01:10 <E0x> wall[e]: for vfat with mtools
May 12 14:01:37 <wall[e]> E0x, thanks!
May 12 14:01:45 <E0x> man mlabel
May 12 14:02:15 <E0x> wall[e]: http://embraceubuntu.com/2006/03/01/editing-fat32-partition-labels-using-mtools/
May 12 14:02:44 <DocScrutinizer> ~ubuntu wall[e]
May 12 14:02:53 <DocScrutinizer> ~useless
May 12 14:02:54 * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :(
May 12 14:03:57 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen timriker
May 12 14:03:59 <infobot> timriker <timr@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker> was last seen on IRC in channel #saygus, 10h 40m 27s ago, saying: 'my launcher is a ground launcher, but similar in design to this one: http://www.sciencetoymaker.org/waterRocket/'.
May 12 14:04:00 <wall[e]> E0x, thanks!
May 12 14:04:45 <DocScrutinizer> prolly he shot infobot right in her forehead with that launcher thing
May 12 14:06:47 <wall[e]> hiehie
May 12 14:09:56 <wall[e]> E0x, works! thanks!
May 12 14:10:39 <wall[e]> ~ubuntu
May 12 14:10:40 <infobot> ubuntu is probably caca from this ass http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3843/18427557718e22857e9rb.jpg
May 12 14:11:31 <RurouniJones> Any Japan based N900 users who have managed to get the f#$%"('%ing thing woring with a Japanese network without separate hardware or a huge data bill?
May 12 14:11:50 <TigerTael> mm?
May 12 14:12:02 <Disconnect> anyone got a faq on finding out where your rootfs space all went? it was a little startling to discover only 1.9 megs free.
May 12 14:12:39 <wall[e]> i wrote a script a couple days ago
May 12 14:12:45 <DocScrutinizer> ~ping
May 12 14:12:46 <infobot> ~pong
May 12 14:12:57 <achipa> uuurgh
May 12 14:13:02 <wall[e]> for each packages, dpkg -L |grep
May 12 14:13:11 <BCMM> i'd really like to see something a bit like Konqueror's File Size View
May 12 14:13:15 * achipa has just been blinded with size 48 fonts in the meego list
May 12 14:13:27 <BCMM> (where directories occupy screen space proportional to disk usage)
May 12 14:13:27 <E0x> wall[e]: cool
May 12 14:13:28 <wall[e]> and sum the data usage
May 12 14:13:41 <Disconnect> looks like a big part of it is themes. (well, 30 megs anyway)
May 12 14:13:49 <Disconnect> that seems excessive, since i don't use most of them ever :)
May 12 14:14:17 <E0x> package view app
May 12 14:14:21 <E0x> tell you
May 12 14:14:38 <hrw> use ncdu?
May 12 14:15:01 <E0x> Disconnect: PackageView tell you the size of eatch package installed
May 12 14:15:35 <E0x> but some package use extra data that are not listed there
May 12 14:15:42 <wall[e]> will they filter partitions ?
May 12 14:15:44 <E0x> example the .pak0 files for quake2
May 12 14:16:05 <Disconnect> packages that stick that data on rootfs should be slapped
May 12 14:16:51 <wall[e]> ah
May 12 14:17:17 * RurouniJones continues on his quest to get N900 working nicely in Japan.
May 12 14:17:46 * Disconnect was doing what he'd do on any other box - poke around with du and df :) themes are the easiest target, since most of them interfere with the app look&feel and so I won't miss them in teh slightest
May 12 14:17:55 <BCMM> Disconnect: you can also list installed applications by size in the app manager
May 12 14:18:24 <Disconnect> is it a safe bet that 90+ % of what is on rootfs is installed apps? (and, conversely, that their app-manager size is going to reflect mostly rootfs?)
May 12 14:18:47 <RST38h> no
May 12 14:19:07 <twoboxen> Is thursday a finnish holiday?
May 12 14:19:15 <BCMM> one could enable ssh, and use konqueror and fish://
May 12 14:19:18 <BCMM> maybe
May 12 14:19:22 <RST38h> first of all, rootfs is compressed, so the actual space taken by a file is not the same as the file size
May 12 14:19:24 <BCMM> but fish:// isn't working here
May 12 14:20:10 <E0x> i run x11vnc , how i stop it ?
May 12 14:20:36 <BCMM_> E0x: kill from shell
May 12 14:20:38 <wall[e]> killall x11vnc
May 12 14:20:41 <BCMM_> or connect to it
May 12 14:20:48 <wall[e]> actually disconnect would do it
May 12 14:20:53 <wall[e]> ok
May 12 14:20:57 <E0x> hmm i saw that x11vnc dont have password
May 12 14:20:57 <wall[e]> 0:1
May 12 14:21:06 <wall[e]> you can assign
May 12 14:21:08 <BCMM_> since iirc it terminates afterconnection ends
May 12 14:21:19 <E0x> cool
May 12 14:21:22 <E0x> that work
May 12 14:21:26 <wall[e]> but you can just...
May 12 14:21:29 <wall[e]> connect first
May 12 14:21:33 <wall[e]> it won't share
May 12 14:21:50 <wall[e]> and will die after you disconnect
May 12 14:22:13 <E0x> yes i see that, thx
May 12 14:22:26 <SpeedEvil> Any thoughts about what I should assign/search for a bug in auto-setting time under?
May 12 14:23:35 <wall[e]> now I really enjoy my new partitioning scheme
May 12 14:23:55 <wall[e]> /dev/mmcblk0p1 : start=       64, size= 27271168, Id= c
May 12 14:24:13 <wall[e]> 13GB is enough for everybody
May 12 14:24:39 * wall[e] repartition just for torrents
May 12 14:24:57 <E0x> torrent download in the n900 ?
May 12 14:25:04 <wall[e]> E0x, yes
May 12 14:25:09 <E0x> :\
May 12 14:25:14 <SpeedEvil> I guess clock
May 12 14:25:17 <E0x> that is only for casual download
May 12 14:25:20 <Disconnect> ok just removed 60 megs of stuff (2 games) according to package manager list. i gained a whopping 100k on rootfs :/
May 12 14:25:34 <wall[e]> E0x, consume less electricity than my main machine, i guess
May 12 14:25:35 * frals waits for the "OMG PR1.2 CONFIRMED FOR THIS MONTH" frenzy after reading -devel ML
May 12 14:25:37 <jacekowski> well most apps are on /opt
May 12 14:25:44 <frals> ~rootfs
May 12 14:25:45 <infobot> hmm... rootfs is mount ro, but all the nessary files that need to be writen to are created in a ramdisk that is rw
May 12 14:25:56 <jacekowski> frals: srsly?
May 12 14:26:02 <jacekowski> frals: isn't it rw?
May 12 14:26:06 <wall[e]> E0x, and my wireless is too old for torrent enabled
May 12 14:26:09 <Disconnect> ah. so "why is my rootfs full" is a nonsensical question. i'm good with that.
May 12 14:26:16 <wall[e]> firmware
May 12 14:26:19 <wall[e]> openwrt
May 12 14:26:22 <frals> bah, theres some wikipage that has a script for finding all the large files
May 12 14:26:34 <frals> thought that'd link to it, but alas no :p
May 12 14:26:38 <wall[e]> or it has space for that
May 12 14:26:58 <wall[e]> find can find last find
May 12 14:27:01 <Disconnect> jacekowski: it is rw but if its supposed to be mostly full i'm not worried. thats like going "omg why is my cdrom full" :)
May 12 14:27:33 <E0x> maybe will need port disk usage analyzer
May 12 14:27:38 <E0x> http://www.exnol.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/disk-usage-anlyser.png
May 12 14:28:02 <wall[e]> someone here suggested using find with time
May 12 14:28:14 <DocScrutinizer> ~optification
May 12 14:28:15 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs
May 12 14:28:16 <wall[e]> may be using find time and plot graph
May 12 14:28:26 <wall[e]> for disk usage
May 12 14:28:38 <wall[e]> install gnuplot
May 12 14:28:40 <wall[e]> haha
May 12 14:28:58 <DocScrutinizer> du -h /|sort -n
May 12 14:29:19 <Disconnect> DocScrutinizer: du -k | sort -n
May 12 14:29:25 * lcuk looks sideways
May 12 14:29:35 <DocScrutinizer> err, even
May 12 14:29:41 <DocScrutinizer> du -kx
May 12 14:29:49 <DocScrutinizer> / | sort -n
May 12 14:30:00 <wall[e]> may be du is hard to find certain package?
May 12 14:30:03 <E0x> ah better
May 12 14:30:08 <wall[e]> coz each may install things everywhere
May 12 14:30:13 <E0x> -ah
May 12 14:30:27 * frals throws a trout at lcuk from behind
May 12 14:31:08 * DocScrutinizer looks at lcuk looking sideways, and wonders what a strange practice...
May 12 14:31:27 <lcuk> well DocScrutinizer 2 minutes ago i used that device for sending an sms
May 12 14:31:36 <lcuk> i didnt hear any death rattles or anything
May 12 14:31:51 <wall[e]> but a file that was generated and remove by install/uninstalling script won't be listed in dpkg -L ?
May 12 14:31:52 <lcuk> mind you i stepped outside
May 12 14:32:31 <lcuk> omg @ glowing wolf eyes boot up logo
May 12 14:32:42 <DocScrutinizer> ffs
May 12 14:32:42 <lcuk> i feel i need 3 wolf moon shirt
May 12 14:33:31 * DocScrutinizer wonders when the 'DONT PANIC' bootscreen he suggested will hit the repos
May 12 14:33:47 <TigerTael> haha
May 12 14:33:51 <wall[e]> i wish package are done in Appole's way
May 12 14:34:03 <lcuk> how does Appole do it?
May 12 14:34:12 <wall[e]> store things in .app
May 12 14:34:18 <alterego> Eh?
May 12 14:34:22 <alterego> .crapp
May 12 14:34:31 <SpeedEvil> wall[e]: That has annoying issues of its own.
May 12 14:34:32 <lcuk> i dont mind that
May 12 14:34:41 <wall[e]> SpeedEvil, yes true but
May 12 14:34:42 <SpeedEvil> wall[e]: Primarily that no app can touch any other apps files
May 12 14:34:45 <Disconnect> lcuk: if he means apple, they have a fairly cool setup. (well, for apps. for packages its a complete hairy nightmare)
May 12 14:34:46 <lcuk> i also strongly dislike the linux filesystem spew
May 12 14:34:47 * DocScrutinizer starts to grep irclogs to figure whom to slap with a large trout
May 12 14:35:04 * SpeedEvil gets out his book of trout recipies.
May 12 14:35:06 <range> Larger trout and everybody
May 12 14:35:23 <Disconnect> lcuk: they basically just say "if a directory ends in .app, its like a jar with metadata, resources and executables and all that is hidden from the user"
May 12 14:35:29 <wall[e]> SpeedEvil, but i guess i am more tire with others
May 12 14:35:48 <SpeedEvil> wall[e]: Which has all sorts of odd problems - lack of a globally accessible filesystem on the device is icky.
May 12 14:35:57 <DocScrutinizer> gfx people, always so err....  :x
May 12 14:36:10 <lcuk> Disconnect, sure
May 12 14:36:16 <SpeedEvil> wall[e]: Leading to stuff like bouncing from external filesharing services.
May 12 14:37:05 <wall[e]> SpeedEvil, may be a better design, shouldn't store user data in .app
May 12 14:37:12 <Disconnect> lcuk: they also have an installable-package format that is a complete mess and has no user-visible uninstaller, lister, etc. (think windows updates circa 95, only without even a list)
May 12 14:37:14 <wall[e]> they don't, anyway
May 12 14:37:44 <Disconnect> and it throws user data in ~/Library/Application Support/appname (by convention - some apps don't, esp if they were straight-ported from a real unix/linux)
May 12 14:37:58 <wall[e]> stuffs in .app shouldn't be shared, kinda, encapsulation
May 12 14:38:04 <Termana> I believe there actually is a site that has Linux applications in a format similar to Apples .app - as long as you install their app first of course
May 12 14:38:44 <wall[e]> like gnustep or what?
May 12 14:38:49 <Disconnect> Termana: there was a dist that did that at one point
May 12 14:38:49 <SpeedEvil> Termana: It's called slackware
May 12 14:38:52 <lcuk> theres good ponts for and against
May 12 14:39:03 <lcuk> and some apps suit encapsulated folders
May 12 14:39:07 <lcuk> others like to spew
May 12 14:39:15 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen t-tan
May 12 14:39:16 <infobot> t-tan <~tanner@g227082229.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 21h 33m 54s ago, saying: 'Stskeeps: morning'.
May 12 14:39:35 <Termana> SpeedEvil, :P This was actually for Ubuntu/Debian I think
May 12 14:39:46 <Termana> Rather than a whole distro :P
May 12 14:40:09 <Termana> It just had an app you had to install ontop of Ubuntu/Debian and then a heap of application downloads
May 12 14:40:13 <SpeedEvil> java.
May 12 14:40:18 <Termana> Funny
May 12 14:40:24 <Termana> But I'm not an idiot
May 12 14:40:36 * SpeedEvil points his idiot-meter at Termana.
May 12 14:40:37 <wall[e]> i think slackware's tgz spread files everywhere?
May 12 14:40:49 <SpeedEvil> wall[e]: yes - but they are one file. :)
May 12 14:40:52 <hawai`i> In a controlled manner.
May 12 14:41:02 <wall[e]> hehe
May 12 14:41:28 <lcuk> a lot of the new generation of qt apps keep most everything in their /opt folder
May 12 14:41:34 <lcuk> with just a .desktop file pointing into it
May 12 14:41:47 <ruskie> lcuk, only if configured so
May 12 14:42:26 <lcuk> ruskie, sure
May 12 14:42:39 <ruskie> and making something like .App for linux system should be easy enough... though I'd probably use some fuse fs to mount the generate app image rw or ro depending on the needs etc...
May 12 14:42:52 <lcuk> but its incredibly motivating to dive into a folder thats the same layout on device as your source (because you used pyqt or something)
May 12 14:42:58 <thresh> yeah, and bring back the thell of static libraries.
May 12 14:43:04 <thresh> -t
May 12 14:43:09 <ruskie> thresh, only if badly setup
May 12 14:43:16 <Disconnect> thresh: there's nothing that says it has to be static libraries except your assumptions.
May 12 14:43:28 <thresh> you said it yourself "like .App" ;-)
May 12 14:43:36 <SpeedEvil> Shared libs are damn near mandatory in the devices RAM we have
May 12 14:43:38 <Disconnect> want to get really creative, your metadata could include hardlinks to the libraries you need.
May 12 14:43:58 <ruskie> thresh, like .App but as I don't know how those actually work in the end
May 12 14:44:01 <SpeedEvil> If we're going that way - I'd like to run each app chrooted too
May 12 14:44:08 <ruskie> SpeedEvil, easy... lxc
May 12 14:44:09 <Disconnect> thresh: i wasn't the one saying it was ideal for embedded systems, i just explained what it was because it sounded like lcuk didn't know
May 12 14:44:12 <thresh> chrooted is easy.
May 12 14:44:17 <thresh> ok
May 12 14:44:31 <lcuk> Disconnect, :) i know alright
May 12 14:44:33 <ruskie> thresh, but I was assuming something like .Lib and .App
May 12 14:44:39 <SpeedEvil> thresh: yes - chrooted is quite easy - though that alone isn't quite isolation.
May 12 14:44:39 <Termana> SpeedEvil, http://www.appbundles.org/ I think this is it maybe
May 12 14:44:42 <ruskie> just to have a differentation between them
May 12 14:45:09 <ruskie> and libs would add themselves to /etc/ld.so.conf or one could do some LD_LIBRARY_PATH magic
May 12 14:45:12 <ruskie> etc..
May 12 14:45:13 <ruskie> there are ways
May 12 14:45:18 <ruskie> just nobody really bothers with that
May 12 14:45:25 <SpeedEvil> fhddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
May 12 14:45:42 <SpeedEvil> It would be so nice if there was a bounty for improving memory footprint for common stuff
May 12 14:45:47 <SpeedEvil> (and oops)
May 12 14:45:47 <Disconnect> fwiw android security is about the only way to realistically isolate apps on an embedded system. (if you strip out the java weirdness, binder, etc you get "one user per app, packages can request shared uid or shared gid, data goes in an app-specific place, permissions are granted per-uid"..)
May 12 14:46:06 <ruskie> Disconnect, lxc
May 12 14:46:16 <wall[e]> i think on xnu they have daemon for that anywhere library?
May 12 14:46:36 <ruskie> anyway off to do other things than discuss dreamy non-existant future scenarios
May 12 14:46:38 <wall[e]> which slow down system a lot?
May 12 14:46:49 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, memory is as precious as battery and cpu and time - reducing all of them is possible for different amounts of work - step by step we will all get there
May 12 14:46:57 <Termana> SpeedEvil, I'm sorry it was actually this one - http://klik.atekon.de/
May 12 14:47:01 <wall[e]> (.framework)
May 12 14:47:01 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: no, we won't.
May 12 14:47:13 <lcuk> fine, we wont
May 12 14:47:16 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: Apps will continue to expand as RAM becomes available.
May 12 14:47:25 <ruskie> yeah because most coders today go: disk is cheap cpu is cheap mem is cheap etc... is cheap
May 12 14:47:37 <ruskie> I still remember back in the day when I ran X on 32mb of mem
May 12 14:47:40 <SpeedEvil> And there is only one response to that.
May 12 14:47:46 <SpeedEvil> YOUR MOM IS CHEAP!
May 12 14:47:46 <lcuk> then they see shiney new n900 device and their app runs like shite
May 12 14:48:00 <ruskie> lcuk, and proclaim the device shite
May 12 14:48:01 <lcuk> optimise now and save tomorrows batteries
May 12 14:48:37 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: also - it's a shiny smartphone now. The 256M RAM pricepoint will rapidly move down
May 12 14:48:59 * RST38h notices that Opera10 somehow manages not to expand to fill all the available ram
May 12 14:49:09 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: File a bug.
May 12 14:49:13 <RST38h> While Fennec will eat all your ram and all your cache too
May 12 14:49:17 <RST38h> Funny, isn't it?
May 12 14:49:43 <GAN900> Hilarious
May 12 14:49:49 <GAN900> No Flash, though.
May 12 14:50:08 <lcuk> hurrah?!
May 12 14:50:08 <RST38h> screw flash
May 12 14:50:33 <GAN900> I love that they had to bring their own repo to do it.
May 12 14:50:48 <RST38h> screw thast too
May 12 14:50:49 <wall[e]> force file registration for each package wouldn't be a too bad idea i guess..
May 12 14:50:58 <wall[e]> or folder for temp files
May 12 14:51:24 <Disconnect> if apps couldn't write all over the world, it'd be very easy to monitor their usage. "du -h /opt/apps/data/app-foo/"
May 12 14:51:24 * RST38h doubts having their own repo will hurt opera's popularity
May 12 14:51:33 <wall[e]> doesn't mean dependency system should be revoked though
May 12 14:51:45 <GAN900> RST38h, we're all well aware of your opinions on the subject.
May 12 14:52:56 <wall[e]> but it's like encapsulation w/o aggregation
May 12 14:53:34 <lcuk> Disconnect, if apps stuck to a folder and were already on opt you wouldnt have started this investigation
May 12 14:55:00 <DocScrutinizer> opt is so loser's last realm
May 12 14:55:58 <lcuk> whats the better solution
May 12 14:56:47 <DocScrutinizer> ~optification
May 12 14:56:48 <infobot> rumour has it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs
May 12 14:57:09 <DocScrutinizer> the partitioning is FUBAR -> fix partitioning
May 12 14:57:21 * wall[e] thinks it's something to do with OO
May 12 14:57:23 <lcuk> how
May 12 14:57:26 <DocScrutinizer> move /usr and /var to eMMC
May 12 14:57:51 <lcuk> what about /opt files now?
May 12 14:57:56 <wall[e]> files should be no more
May 12 14:57:56 <DocScrutinizer> that's the classic orthodoc unix way to handle this problem
May 12 14:58:09 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: it you move /usr and /var, what's the / good for anyway ? ;)
May 12 14:58:29 <DocScrutinizer> for /bin /sbin, /etc /libs
May 12 14:58:40 <achipa> none of that is apps
May 12 14:58:50 <DocScrutinizer> huh?
May 12 14:58:55 <achipa> (well, etc is, but it's lighweight)
May 12 14:59:09 <achipa> what user apps put stuff in /bin /sbin or /libs ?
May 12 14:59:19 <wall[e]> there's something in NSApis like zone allocation
May 12 14:59:23 <RST38h> GAN900: jolly good then! =)
May 12 14:59:24 <achipa> (emphasis on USER)
May 12 14:59:25 <ruskie> leave / for the base boot system and the rest on the emmc
May 12 14:59:46 <ruskie> as it is one can't even move /usr over
May 12 14:59:47 <ruskie> it breaks
May 12 14:59:50 <lcuk> is this what btrfs is meant to solve btw
May 12 14:59:52 <wall[e]> NSZone, wonder if that thing went obsolete in iphone.
May 12 15:00:02 <ruskie> because early boot relies on things in /usr
May 12 15:00:15 <DocScrutinizer> jr@halley:~> which oocalc
May 12 15:00:17 <DocScrutinizer> /usr/bin/oocalc
May 12 15:00:18 * achipa wishes if Nokia hats published their results with regard to eMMC speed testing
May 12 15:00:52 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: that's /usr, not /bin :)
May 12 15:01:24 <DocScrutinizer> so that's why I said [2010-05-12 16:57:26] <DocScrutinizer> move /usr and /var to eMMC
May 12 15:01:53 <wall[e]> i think he want app to take advantage of faster fs?
May 12 15:02:15 <DocScrutinizer> wall[e]: yeah, all the 7GB of them
May 12 15:02:28 <achipa> what I'm saying is that if you move /usr and /var, you're basically not using the root for anything substantial
May 12 15:02:39 <achipa> just booting
May 12 15:02:44 <DocScrutinizer> for the SYSTEM!!
May 12 15:02:50 <alterego> Wow, that guy's an ass
May 12 15:02:55 <achipa> sys-what ?
May 12 15:03:17 <wall[e]> wow i hate unix :)
May 12 15:03:25 <achipa> seriously, all apps (including system ones) are in /usr/bin and usr/lib and keep files in /var
May 12 15:03:56 <achipa> and /bin /sbin /lib is really-really low level unix stuff you generally do not use all that often
May 12 15:04:01 <wall[e]> lib shouldn't be shared, they should be run and register as NSServices :P
May 12 15:04:36 <achipa> (okay, maybe /lib has a lib or two, but not nearly as much as /usr/lib)
May 12 15:04:41 * DocScrutinizer shakes head, yawns, and wanders off to the left
May 12 15:04:46 <achipa> :)
May 12 15:04:58 * wall[e] goes painting more chicks
May 12 15:05:41 <achipa> the thing is... you don't want the rootfs to be empty... you want to use as much of it as possible without letting it bork the system by getting full
May 12 15:06:25 <lcuk> wall[e], its quicker if you hold them by their feet and dunk them in the tin
May 12 15:06:39 <achipa> swap + root + data on the same device is not necessarily a good idea
May 12 15:06:59 * lcuk has had this discussion many times
May 12 15:07:07 <wall[e]> i think not all part of an app should be using a faster service area
May 12 15:07:22 <achipa> with chicks or opt people ?
May 12 15:07:23 <wall[e]> eg, some part of code shouldn't be load often
May 12 15:07:40 <lcuk> lol opt
May 12 15:07:42 <wall[e]> so a single elf should be splitted
May 12 15:07:43 <DocScrutinizer> "we want fast access to /usr/bin, so let's put this on NAND aka rootfs. OOPSIE rootfs gets terribly crowded, so let's symlink all apps from /usr/bin to /home/opt" - don't you think that's somewhat weird and wrong?
May 12 15:07:47 <achipa> wall[e]: say hello to /opt :)
May 12 15:08:03 <wall[e]> a single file i am talking about :)
May 12 15:08:14 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, individual file symlinking made me wince
May 12 15:08:22 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: what I'm sayins is sticking everything on the eMMC and watch it iowait till eternity is just as wrong
May 12 15:08:47 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: get a better device then
May 12 15:08:48 <achipa> symlinking is just a patch of a patch...
May 12 15:09:08 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: waiting for it, but they won't give me a prerelase one, dammit !
May 12 15:09:29 * wall[e] tries to remember beos
May 12 15:09:34 <achipa> android is doing the same cludgy thing btw :)
May 12 15:09:49 <achipa> just waiting to see how they call opt :)
May 12 15:10:05 <wall[e]> hws are cheap!
May 12 15:10:08 * wall[e] runs.
May 12 15:10:56 <achipa> wall[e]: it's not even necessarily about money... PoP NAND size choices are rather limited
May 12 15:11:24 <achipa> nowadays it's still around 512MB with the occasional 1GB fattie
May 12 15:11:27 <wall[e]> yeh sarcasm
May 12 15:11:57 <MohammadAG_> what does Connection Refused mean :/
May 12 15:12:11 <lcuk> means you fail and must hand in your geek card
May 12 15:12:17 <wall[e]> i think it's bad to mix namespace with storage
May 12 15:12:19 <wall[e]> like unix
May 12 15:12:31 <MohammadAG_> it worked
May 12 15:12:49 <MohammadAG_> Nokia-N900:~# Write failed: Broken pipe <--- wtf
May 12 15:12:49 <wall[e]> root of all problems...
May 12 15:12:58 <achipa> MohammadAG_: it means that Mr Connection changed it's fuses.
May 12 15:13:16 <wall[e]> just me, i am just a lost artist, i knows nothing
May 12 15:13:22 <wall[e]> can't wait for hurd
May 12 15:13:42 <wall[e]> since they move ns to server thread level whatever.
May 12 15:14:00 <achipa> what concerns me more is that all OMAP3s I've seem have 256/256 mem... even 3640s...
May 12 15:14:10 <achipa> s/seem/seen/
May 12 15:14:10 <infobot> achipa meant: what concerns me more is that all OMAP3s I've seen have 256/256 mem... even 3640s...
May 12 15:14:32 * timeless_mbp sighs
May 12 15:14:47 <timeless_mbp> sudo threatened to report an attempt by root to sudo
May 12 15:15:10 <timeless_mbp> well, it tried, it was thwarted by the fact that the mail daemon on this machine wasn't configured :)
May 12 15:15:16 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: if you have a particular file (e.g. a large lookup table) in your eMMC resident /usr/bin, and you want to speed it up, you either mmap it and let the (hopefully fast nanad based) swap do the rest, or you link it back to a /speed-opt-auxiliary file on rootfs
May 12 15:15:43 <DocScrutinizer> s/nanad/NAND
May 12 15:16:51 <achipa> well, will be interesting to see what the solution in Harmattan will be in any case :)
May 12 15:17:35 <Disconnect> wow. awesome. /var/cache/apt/archives is on rootfs.
May 12 15:17:39 <Disconnect> there's my missing space.
May 12 15:19:17 <MohammadAG_> <achipa> MohammadAG_: it means that Mr Connection changed it's fuses.
May 12 15:19:26 <MohammadAG_> apparently rebooting doesn't change them back
May 12 15:19:27 <MohammadAG_> grr
May 12 15:19:45 <Disconnect> try a factory reset
May 12 15:19:52 <MohammadAG_> no thanks
May 12 15:20:14 <Disconnect> thats what fixed it for the last guy
May 12 15:20:53 <DocScrutinizer51> Disconnect: see? /var on rootfs - MEGAFAIL
May 12 15:21:39 <Disconnect> DocScrutinizer: cache on rootfs is fail. cache should be on tmpfs. or at least get wiped when it reboots.
May 12 15:22:15 <DocScrutinizer51> and var/spool??? :-P
May 12 15:23:19 <Disconnect> spool is frequently work to be done. that doesn't get invalidated by rebooting (think mail) cache is supposed to be temporary, or at least replacable
May 12 15:30:29 <Disconnect> so without getting into release dates, etc, does anyone know if the leaked 1.2 images added a prompt on shutdown? (an 'are you sure' or 'turn device off?' etc)
May 12 15:30:49 <hawai`i> Nope.
May 12 15:31:08 <DocScrutinizer> fail
May 12 15:31:35 <lcuk> fail?
May 12 15:31:39 <pupnik> channel ops should kick for stupid 1.2 questions
May 12 15:31:39 <Disconnect> it wouldn't be so annoying if it didn't lag so frequently. so a click on what should be "desktop menu" ends up being "turn off device and throw everything away".
May 12 15:31:53 <lcuk> you have to press a hardware button then a specific place
May 12 15:31:56 <SpeedEvil> disco: you can disable long-press IIRC
May 12 15:32:30 <hawai`i> The buttons are right close to each other. I think a confirmation dialog would have been a nice option.
May 12 15:32:50 <Disconnect> lcuk: not that specific. its the same place as the front-most-app menu, as desktop's "add shortcut", as everything else. and immediately above "change profile".
May 12 15:33:11 <lcuk> Disconnect, but you need to press the hardware button to get that
May 12 15:33:14 <Disconnect> even without lag you get to go through "lemme mute this....sonofabitch. hang on. lemme turn it on... grr startup sound, sorry. lemme mute it again."
May 12 15:34:14 <MohammadAG_> I use my hardware muter
May 12 15:34:23 <MohammadAG_> 3.5mm jack
May 12 15:34:24 <hawai`i> a lead pouch?
May 12 15:34:29 <achipa> my two 10-clicks-to-do-something-trivial is still the volume in chat and initiating a SIP/Skype call from the phone menu when you're offline
May 12 15:34:45 <MohammadAG_> Disconnect, remove the button
May 12 15:34:47 * Disconnect never accidentally turned off any other device with the ease and simplicity of this one. 9300 doesn't really turn off at all. e90 has a prompt that - iirc - includes rebooting.
May 12 15:35:12 <MohammadAG_> Symbian devices never had confirmation dialogs
May 12 15:35:32 <Disconnect> need to file a bug, keep forgetting. was on a call the other day and witter (or some ohter app) popped to the foreground to tell me it had no connection. took - with lag, etc - about a minute to get the phone app back so that I could end the call.
May 12 15:35:34 <hawai`i> Symbian devices didn't need rebooting :D
May 12 15:35:43 <MohammadAG_> They needed hard resets
May 12 15:35:53 <hawai`i> I've never hard reset my E71
May 12 15:35:59 <MohammadAG_> you're special
May 12 15:36:10 <hawai`i> My helmet says so.
May 12 15:36:19 <Disconnect> finding out right now, the wif has my old e90. i'm pretty sure it has an are-you-sure prompt. and its symbian.
May 12 15:36:22 <achipa> MohammadAG_: though if I think about it, shutdown on Symbian works just like on the N900
May 12 15:36:29 <Disconnect> well... grr. finding out when she gets out of the meeting
May 12 15:36:30 <MohammadAG_> achipa, yes
May 12 15:36:38 <achipa> power button, pick shutdown and off you go... no further confirmation
May 12 15:37:52 <Disconnect> part of that is that there is no touchscreen. so you're less likely to accidentally select the wrong entry. ditto for lag - it flushes the input queue before displaying the menu.
May 12 15:38:06 <Disconnect> so you are way less likely (nearly impossible) to have it take unrelated queued input and turn off.
May 12 15:39:53 <achipa> yes, input queue can be a bitch
May 12 15:44:10 <GAN900> Yo, achipa.
May 12 15:44:26 <achipa> yo GA
May 12 15:44:38 <E0x> input queue ?
May 12 15:45:59 <Disconnect> E0x: ever type faster than the computer (or phone) can read and it churns through all the missed input? thats an input queue. (and it works on touchscreen/mouse input too)
May 12 15:48:05 <E0x> oh
May 12 15:48:22 <E0x> maybe i don't type that fast
May 12 15:48:25 <E0x> for saw that effect
May 12 15:53:39 <Macer> hi
May 12 15:54:55 <wall[e]> what does HR mean?
May 12 15:55:13 <Disconnect> E0x: you can see it on the n900 pretty easy. open firefox and microb to a couple of pages, then start trying to use it :)
May 12 15:56:41 <andre__> wall[e], "Human Ressources"?
May 12 15:56:58 <Disconnect> hybrid rabbits
May 12 15:57:00 <wall[e]> andre__, no, something about reflash? I dont' know
May 12 15:57:08 <andre__> well. provide context.
May 12 15:57:24 <wall[e]> homorabbit
May 12 15:57:41 <wall[e]> like homosapien but looks like rabbit
May 12 15:57:54 <wall[e]> andre__, HR will make N900 run faster
May 12 15:58:18 <andre__> shrug
May 12 15:58:27 <E0x> Home Rest ?
May 12 15:58:30 <wall[e]> when you get the device, it wasn't HR out of the box
May 12 15:58:30 <wall[e]> but after HR it is much smoother
May 12 15:58:30 <wall[e]> wow this is really cool...
May 12 15:58:52 <andre__> so wtf do you talk about?
May 12 15:58:55 <wall[e]> shrug too
May 12 15:59:04 <wall[e]> no, someone asked that question.
May 12 15:59:10 <wall[e]> and i was wtf
May 12 15:59:18 <andre__> then provide URLs for "someone" and your "quotes".
May 12 15:59:30 <andre__> as written before: context.
May 12 15:59:35 <wall[e]> andre__, I translated that right from thai language.
May 12 16:00:38 <wall[e]> Hohoho Reflash
May 12 16:00:43 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway usability wise the GUI is suboptimal in various aspects
May 12 16:01:40 <DocScrutinizer51> (confirmation dialog and accidental switchoff the is)
May 12 16:01:45 <b0unc3> hello
May 12 16:01:45 <Macer> yawn
May 12 16:01:55 <b0unc3> I've some problems using upstart and dbus ( with DBUS_BUS_SESSION ) any hint ?
May 12 16:01:56 <Disconnect> DocScrutinizer: every ui is suboptimal in various aspects. this one is actively hostile in many aspects :)
May 12 16:02:34 <DocScrutinizer51> ack
May 12 16:04:11 <DocScrutinizer51> inbound call dialog same
May 12 16:14:12 <Disconnect> yah. inbound calls, ability for background apps to appear over the in-call dialog without user interaction (compounded by the lag issue) etc
May 12 16:14:59 <Disconnect> then again, android ui (esp in 2.1) is beginning to get a lot of acclaim. and it was - if anything - worse in 1.0. at least I can almost always answer a call on the n900, although it usually doesn't tell me its answered until a 15-20 secs later.
May 12 16:15:05 <SmokeyD> Hey everyone, is it possible on my N900 to see the call log including the length of calls? i can find the communication history but that only states who I called/called me at what times, but not how long the call lasted.
May 12 16:15:20 <Disconnect> SmokeyD: istr thats what extended call log does
May 12 16:16:39 <ruskie> Disconnect, odd I never have any problems with the phone functionality
May 12 16:17:02 <frals> i wonder wtf you lot are doing to your phones as ive never had any problems with callui
May 12 16:17:06 <Disconnect> ruskie: when i get a call, it takes a few secs to show feedback from the 'answer' button. but it does connect quickly
May 12 16:17:14 <ruskie> Disconnect, hmm don't get that as well
May 12 16:17:21 <ruskie> it just works
May 12 16:17:25 <Disconnect> rahter, it sometimes takes a few secs.
May 12 16:17:28 <ruskie> infact it's better than it was on the n95
May 12 16:18:21 <Disconnect> when i was on a call the other day (in 3g but maybe it was spotty?) I finished leaving a vm and went to hang up. except i had been pushed into a difft app so that the app (either facebrick or witter, don't recall) could tell me it had no connection. and with the lag, it was a real pita (30-45 seconds) to get abck to the phone so I could end the call.
May 12 16:18:53 <ruskie> vm?
May 12 16:19:04 <Disconnect> apps shouldn't be allowed to force themselves to the front, thats what notifications are for. they -especially- shouldn't be allowed to do so when the proximity sensor says the phone is covered..
May 12 16:21:41 <frals> never had witter force itself to active and id yell at w00t_ if facebrick did it
May 12 16:21:46 <Disconnect> ruskie: I suspect thats what the issue is, but at the time all I had open was 1 browser window (fairly light static page) and then facebrick, witter and the phone app.
May 12 16:22:12 <E0x> i can't connect to the n900 using a XDMCP connection ?
May 12 16:22:27 <w00t_> sure you didn't turn your touchscreen into an earscreen? I've done that a few times
May 12 16:22:43 <frals> ^^
May 12 16:22:52 <w00t_> I once managed to send myself an email, no idea how I did that but hey
May 12 16:23:28 <E0x> ?
May 12 16:23:33 <Disconnect> w00t_: not positive of course, i wasn't looking at it :) and it was bright out (so I wouldn't have noticed the screen lighting up) but it hasn't happened to me before. not that that means anything ..
May 12 16:24:03 <w00t_> facebrick at least won't do anything focuswise, witter I've not had that happen, but I don't know its code
May 12 16:24:45 <Disconnect> fair enough. love it btw, except for covering more media types (eg view pics and such in the app)
May 12 16:25:40 <Disconnect> and it seems to click-instead-of-scroll with some frequency. but thats a platform problem - mentioning it now because it looks like tweego managed to solve it
May 12 16:25:44 <t-tan> does anybody know whether there is a a DBUS signal when a phone call is hung up
May 12 16:26:00 <slaxium> Hello, maybe some coder have free time and could look for Palringo, some work is done: http://github.com/EspadaV8/QPalringo
May 12 16:26:06 <frals> t-tan: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#End_current_phone_call
May 12 16:26:17 <wall[e]> anyone know for sure the flash block size thing for repartitioning ?
May 12 16:26:26 <wall[e]> 32 64 or 128k?
May 12 16:26:51 <t-tan> frals: I mean receiving a signal when the users hangs up
May 12 16:27:03 <frals> oh, dunno that, sorry :)
May 12 16:27:28 <t-tan> frals: thanks, anyway
May 12 16:29:05 <E0x> hmm , cat /proc/cpuinfo don't show the CPU Mhz field
May 12 16:30:01 <Disconnect> E0x: welcome to arm ;) there is a diff't place ot get it (other than just running conky) lemme look
May 12 16:30:05 <GAN900> alterego, who's an ass?
May 12 16:30:09 <GAN900> Do I need popcorn?
May 12 16:30:19 <crashanddie> alterego: you obviously
May 12 16:30:51 <GAN900> crashanddie, tab complete fail.
May 12 16:31:03 <crashanddie> brainfreeze too
May 12 16:31:10 <Disconnect>  /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq
May 12 16:34:03 <wall[e]> 56631296 / (32 * 1024 * 2) * (32 * 1024 * 2)
May 12 16:34:11 <wall[e]> default size suggest it should be 32k
May 12 16:34:22 <wall[e]> nokia shouldn't get it wrong
May 12 16:38:24 <ShadowJK> it's more like 128 or 256k
May 12 16:38:48 <t-tan> if you want to be safe use 128k
May 12 16:38:48 <wall[e]> ShadowJK, then the default partition size isn't suitable ?
May 12 16:38:49 <ShadowJK> the manufacturers don't always disclose it
May 12 16:39:00 <ShadowJK> ?
May 12 16:39:13 <wall[e]> ShadowJK, default size is 56631296
May 12 16:39:45 <wall[e]> no, my bad
May 12 16:39:47 <wall[e]> sorry
May 12 16:40:00 <wall[e]> oh not
May 12 16:40:23 <wall[e]> 56631296 / (128 * 1024 * 2) * (128 * 1024 * 2) = 56623104
May 12 16:40:55 <wall[e]> neither 64 it is aligned
May 12 16:41:41 <wall[e]> er n/m
May 12 16:41:46 <wall[e]> suck at math!
May 12 16:42:23 <t-tan> it only fits with 8k, but if you align it with 128k, it also aligns with all <128k
May 12 16:44:05 <ShadowJK> well.. I think most important is that it's 4k aligned
May 12 16:44:33 <wall[e]> yeh, why
May 12 16:44:41 <wall[e]> is default bad?
May 12 16:44:41 <ShadowJK> because even if you align the partitions at 256k, the os is still writing stuff in chunks of 4k randomly all over
May 12 16:44:53 <wall[e]> ah i see
May 12 16:45:28 <t-tan> AFAIK it swaps in larger chunks
May 12 16:46:05 <ShadowJK> t-tan: only initially..
May 12 16:46:15 <wall[e]> but reading isn't random?
May 12 16:46:31 <wall[e]> in cache layer?
May 12 16:46:49 <ShadowJK> for reading you only need 4k alignment
May 12 16:46:53 <wall[e]> like cache read 256k, you'll read from the cache not directly flash?
May 12 16:47:07 <yabba> There is no voddler client for maemo?
May 12 16:49:48 <pupnik> what's that for yabba
May 12 16:50:07 <BCMM> yeah, never heard of it
May 12 16:50:13 <DocScrutinizer51> t-tan: thanks for participating in hostmode enterprise
May 12 16:50:21 <yabba> that I think too
May 12 16:50:40 <ShadowJK> flash erase block size might be 256k, but smallest adressable page is 4k
May 12 16:50:56 <ShadowJK> not that the manufacturers will confirm nor deny that
May 12 16:51:02 <t-tan> DocScrutinizer51: you're welcome. I really hope we can get USB hostmode someday
May 12 16:51:18 <wall[e]> thanks.
May 12 16:51:44 <wall[e]> should I repartition to align with 256k ?
May 12 16:52:12 <DocScrutinizer51> t-tan: you might ne able to look a little closer to the diffs between fremantle and e.g. diablo wrt that
May 12 16:52:12 <wall[e]> I didn't put any data in it yet
May 12 16:52:39 <ShadowJK> repartitioning sounds like a pain
May 12 16:52:51 <wall[e]> just did hehe
May 12 16:52:58 <wall[e]> give more torrent space
May 12 16:53:21 <t-tan> ShadowJK: no, it's not as painful as the default layout
May 12 16:53:25 <wall[e]> so i can download tutorials
May 12 16:54:12 <slaxium> http://github.com/EspadaV8/QPalringo
May 12 16:54:31 <DocScrutinizer51> t-tan: the major question is "why doesn't a 'echo host >mode' show the expected effects?"
May 12 16:54:37 <ShadowJK> I've got all of microsd in ext3..
May 12 16:54:54 * tripzero doesn't believe in ext3
May 12 16:54:57 <tripzero> btrfs ftw
May 12 16:55:23 <ShadowJK> for performance, a more recent kernel that isn't too buggy to run ext4 or nilfs2 or LogFS would probably be better..
May 12 16:56:05 <tripzero> nilfs2 has promise
May 12 16:56:09 <ShadowJK> ext4 was hugely faster than btrfs in my test on sd storage..
May 12 16:56:16 <tripzero> oh?
May 12 16:56:34 <tripzero> most benchmarks have btrfs pwning ext4
May 12 16:56:45 <cehteh> nilfs is cool but doesnt work for flash storage well
May 12 16:56:48 <DocScrutinizer51> t-tan: keep in mind all of egoshin's results on hostmode so far actually are strange OTG side effects, not really generic hostmode
May 12 16:56:51 <tripzero> but i guess it depends on what kevnel version
May 12 16:56:58 <tripzero> s/kevnel/kernel*
May 12 16:57:10 <cehteh> ext4 is awesomely faster than fat and ext2/3 on the n900 in my tests
May 12 16:57:24 <cehteh> and i dont dare to use btrfs yet for serious things
May 12 16:57:29 <ShadowJK> cehteh, nilfs2 works quick on flash
May 12 16:57:43 <ShadowJK> and will wear out your emmc in 20 years
May 12 16:57:46 <cehteh> ShadowJK: it has excessive writes
May 12 16:57:48 <l0g1tech> can someone help me uninstall the enhanced power-user kernal as i keep getting an error (error during deinstallation could not install nokia kernel) ?
May 12 16:57:48 <SpeedEvil> t-tan: mmc built in would be good too - to allow a kernel to boot SD without touching / - using flasher -b
May 12 16:57:49 <ShadowJK> instead of 2000
May 12 16:58:03 <tripzero> nilfs2 is supposed to be really good for flash, but yeah, it does currently do excessive writing
May 12 16:58:10 <cehteh> ShadowJK: only because the emmc is so slow :P
May 12 16:58:21 <t-tan> l0g1tech: are you running LR1.2?
May 12 16:58:26 <l0g1tech> yeah
May 12 16:58:36 <cehteh> well nilfs is nice when you need ultra reliable storage with a lot of writes
May 12 16:58:45 <tripzero> :P
May 12 16:58:55 <tripzero> btrfs with compression is the awesome
May 12 16:59:05 <wall[e]> if i update kernel will that void warranty ?
May 12 16:59:20 <t-tan> l0g1tech: then you need to install it manually from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel/
May 12 16:59:26 <cehteh> i managed to crash btrfs so far with some efforts .. its not yet fully reliable
May 12 16:59:44 <l0g1tech> thanks t-tan i'll give it a try ;)
May 12 16:59:46 <wall[e]> er better wait
May 12 16:59:52 <tripzero> cehteh, i haven't gotten it to crash yet.  but my experience isn't very extensive
May 12 16:59:58 <cehteh> i really looking forward for it .. but yet, shipping a device by default with it is close to suicide
May 12 17:00:32 <cehteh> the enospc problems are not completely fixed yet iirc
May 12 17:00:53 <cehteh> there are *known* problems where it will go out for lunch
May 12 17:01:17 <DocScrutinizer51> t-tan: you have a diablo device?
May 12 17:01:44 <t-tan> DocScrutinizer51: no, only N900. there are major HW differences, correct?
May 12 17:02:30 <t-tan> ext4 in kernel-power is patched and should be stable. (so far no negative feedback)
May 12 17:02:32 <DocScrutinizer51> quite some, but nothing I couldn't help to adapt from N810 to N900
May 12 17:03:02 <l0g1tech> t-tan: abit confused as to which one to download to fix my problem :/
May 12 17:03:06 <hawai`i> ext4 for internal or external?
May 12 17:03:38 <t-tan> SpeedEvil: reg builtin mmc. need to check whether has any side effects. e.g. whether tries to insmod it
May 12 17:03:54 <t-tan> hawai`i: both
May 12 17:04:23 <t-tan> l0g1tech: the latest one
May 12 17:04:33 <DocScrutinizer51> t-tan: on N810 diablo we got woring hostmode. And it's just a matter of adapting some register addresses (simply speaking) to adapt that to N900
May 12 17:06:04 <tripzero> woring hostmode?
May 12 17:06:10 <ruskie> t-tan, hmm does the power kernel support ppp and fbcon?
May 12 17:06:27 <hawai`i> ruskie: fbcon has stability issues with .28
May 12 17:06:43 <ruskie> I'm using jebbas kernel with fbcon with no issues
May 12 17:06:48 <mikki-kun> hi uhm, how did you again set aliases on the N900 like "alias short='$fricking_long_command_with_special_chars'" so that those are read every time you start the xterm?
May 12 17:06:49 <t-tan> ruskie: ppp yes, fbcon see hawai`i
May 12 17:07:11 <ruskie> mikki-kun, put alias foo="bar --commmand" into .ashrc iirc
May 12 17:07:24 <t-tan> ruskie: is his kernel up to date or uses any special patches?
May 12 17:07:37 <hawai`i> ruskie: there is an fbcon enabled kernel in the Customization thread on TMO
May 12 17:07:49 <ruskie> it's just a rebuilt of the default maemo kernel I guess
May 12 17:07:58 <mikki-kun> ruskie: does it matter wheter i use '' or ""?
May 12 17:08:02 <wall[e]> rootsh can't be uninstalled, error in uninstalling script
May 12 17:08:09 <t-tan> I have posted a fbcon build of kernel-power there
May 12 17:08:20 <ruskie> t-tan, what kind of stability issues are there?
May 12 17:09:12 <wall[e]> nokia will know i jailbreak the device :(
May 12 17:09:25 <ruskie> wall[e], lol you can't jailbreak it... you get root ;)
May 12 17:09:30 <wall[e]> :)
May 12 17:09:35 <tripzero> lol @ "jailbreak" on an n900
May 12 17:09:38 <tripzero> you are root!
May 12 17:10:23 <t-tan> kernel oops like the ones you can see in this video http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/12/nokia-n900-running-android-2-1-still-rough-around-the-edges/
May 12 17:11:27 <tripzero> android on the n900 is an abomination
May 12 17:11:38 <wall[e]> will future itune be able to detect if the hardware it's flashing has previously been jailbroken and phone home?
May 12 17:11:43 <wall[e]> is that breaking law?
May 12 17:11:55 <Disconnect> tripzero: its broken, but i don't know if i'd call it an abomination. beats the heck out of android on a g1 ;)
May 12 17:12:20 <mikki-kun> mehhh, i couldn't stand ash anymore... hopefully bash will be better
May 12 17:12:45 <t-tan> DocScrutinizer51: I wonder what would happen with a kernel that is build only with hostmode, and not OTG
May 12 17:13:00 <tripzero> Disconnect, better than the g1, sure, but android itself is an abomination
May 12 17:13:10 <DocScrutinizer51> t-tan: very good idea
May 12 17:13:11 <pupnik> "What brought you to libertarianism?"  "It just made sense."
May 12 17:13:13 <tripzero> putting it on the n900 screams "why"
May 12 17:13:23 <tripzero> pupnik, +1
May 12 17:13:24 <hawai`i> tripzero: for the challenge.
May 12 17:13:44 <SpeedEvil> And more importantly - IMO - for running android as another app
May 12 17:13:46 <SpeedEvil> in principle
May 12 17:13:53 <Disconnect> tripzero: the aosp is a joke, but android beats the pants out of maemo for adoption, saner ui decisions, application support, etc.
May 12 17:14:03 <DocScrutinizer51> t-tan: as OTG is the one thing we need the least
May 12 17:14:11 <Disconnect> SpeedEvil: yah thats my goal, once the basic port works start hacking on a wine-style wrapper to allow android apps to run just like any other.
May 12 17:14:33 <tripzero> Disconnect, maemo was never built for wide adoption
May 12 17:14:35 <SpeedEvil> Disconnect: that would be great - I was assuming some sot of more vmware type thing.
May 12 17:14:47 <tripzero> so comparing it to android in that respect is unwise
May 12 17:14:52 <mikki-kun> is there somewhere a package of zsh floating around which is optified for maemo?
May 12 17:15:34 <ruskie> t-tan, you mean that oops on startup? hmm doesn't look like a serious issue to me
May 12 17:16:20 <t-tan> ruskie: yep. it usually continues to boot, sometimes there are no oops. and most often it fails to shutdown.
May 12 17:16:44 <Disconnect> tripzero: sorry man, they've been saying off and on since the beginning that a goal is porting: http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Maemo_Base_Port
May 12 17:16:46 <ruskie> are there actually any patches for fbcon?
May 12 17:17:14 <ruskie> that it causes the oops?
May 12 17:17:14 <mikki-kun> ruskie: just saw your post regarding zsh... did you find a way around that?
May 12 17:17:20 <ruskie> mikki-kun, around what?
May 12 17:17:31 <mikki-kun> Changing users user shell to /bin/zsh makes it NOT boot. Yes even after installing.
May 12 17:17:36 <tripzero> Disconnect, yes, but in reality, maemo was built for a single device vendor (nokia).
May 12 17:17:38 <mikki-kun> that thing
May 12 17:17:48 <ruskie> mikki-kun, I just have a shortcut to launch zsh instead of the normal terminal
May 12 17:17:49 <tripzero> meego is probably the evolution of that idea to make it more portable
May 12 17:17:53 <t-tan> ruskie: no idea. I'd need to extract the oops and google for it...
May 12 17:18:08 <mikki-kun> ruskie: did you upload your zsh-package?
May 12 17:18:15 <ruskie> mikki-kun, it's all in my repo
May 12 17:18:30 <Disconnect> tripzero: meego is an attempt to take two marginalized platforms and try to combine them into a slightly less marginalized platform. also, get buy-in outside nokia for said platform..
May 12 17:18:36 <ruskie> I don't bother with extras repos
May 12 17:19:35 <tripzero> Disconnect, meego is meant to be much more portable
May 12 17:19:54 <tripzero> and run on many more mobile devices than maemo ever considered
May 12 17:20:11 <DocScrutinizer51> mikki-kun: (user shell) wellknown effect
May 12 17:20:32 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer51: changing my shell will screw up the device?
May 12 17:20:38 <SpeedEvil> yes
May 12 17:20:41 <DocScrutinizer51> yes
May 12 17:21:00 <Disconnect> tripzero: -moblin- was meant to be more portable. meego is what happened when it was merged with maemo (thereby gaining nokia's always-halfhearted support and the maemo userbase)
May 12 17:21:01 <mikki-kun> wth is just wrong there?
May 12 17:21:06 <tripzero> Disconnect, but i agree as well with the purposes you suggested.
May 12 17:21:13 <DocScrutinizer51> the idiotic initscripts rely on idiotic busybox
May 12 17:21:15 <SpeedEvil> mikki-kun: the scripts use some busybox-sh'sms,
May 12 17:21:44 <mikki-kun> how hard it would it be removing busybox?
May 12 17:22:04 <tripzero> yes, meego inherited the portable-ness from it's moblin parent
May 12 17:22:14 <tripzero> would moblin be the daddy or the mommy?
May 12 17:22:17 <tripzero> :P
May 12 17:22:21 <DocScrutinizer51> you probably can fix the initscripts
May 12 17:22:35 <DocScrutinizer51> but happy upgrading then
May 12 17:23:25 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer51: so every upgrade would just kill configured initscripts?
May 12 17:23:42 <DocScrutinizer51> odds are it will
May 12 17:24:27 <Disconnect> tripzero: in any case, hopefully future software updates will solve the lag/ui issues and android (as a full bootable os) will go back to being a useless "gee wiz" project on n900, instead of "a working os with apps and stuff" :)
May 12 17:24:39 <DocScrutinizer51> so it's basically an annoying bug that Nokia ought fix
May 12 17:24:42 <MiXu-> I'm unable to update scratchbox armel target to PR1.2 :(
May 12 17:25:24 <tripzero> Disconnect, yeah, i hope so too :).  if meego is ever productized on the n900, i think it will pwn android in responsiveness
May 12 17:25:50 <hawai`i> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
May 12 17:25:50 <hawai`i> 0x4441a13c in QMetaObject::indexOfSignal(char const*) const () from /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4
May 12 17:25:50 <hawai`i> 0x4441a13c <_ZNK11QMetaObject13indexOfSignalEPKc+32>:	ldr	r0, [r1, #16]
May 12 17:25:54 <hawai`i> This makes me sad.
May 12 17:26:05 <MiXu-> osso-mission-control won't upgrade. "subprocess new post-removal script returned error exit status 255"
May 12 17:26:29 <Disconnect> tripzero: depends. the new dalvik jit stuff is helping a lot as far as speed. fondle a droid or nexus some time, they finally have iphone beat as to perceived speed/response
May 12 17:27:20 * Disconnect ponders throwing together a python app to back sms's up to imap.
May 12 17:27:26 <SpeedEvil> Are you installing dalvik - or is it an open source clone?
May 12 17:27:42 <Disconnect> SpeedEvil: dalvik is it's own open source clone.
May 12 17:27:55 <Disconnect> so um... i have no idea what your question means
May 12 17:27:56 <SpeedEvil> oh.
May 12 17:28:01 * ShadowJK blames the emmc for all stutter :D
May 12 17:28:15 <SpeedEvil> I assumed for some reason that dalvik was a closed binary
May 12 17:28:38 <MiXu-> Is there a way to reset my fremantle armel target in scratchbox?
May 12 17:28:42 <Disconnect> (and right now, if you check nitdroid, its mostly dj_steve and he's working on things like "why does the touchscreen keep killing children" and "is that supposed to be on fire? I don't think it was on fire before..")
May 12 17:28:53 <ShadowJK> N900 relies heavily on it for its multitasking capabilities, at the same time the emmc is uberslow for it :P
May 12 17:30:05 <Disconnect> SpeedEvil: in android - esp recent hw - very little core bits are closed. (i'd say less than on maemo, but i haven't looked at the "whats closed" list in a while.) things directly related to gmail syncing, marketplace, open gl drivers, etc are pretty much it. and on htc lots of hw drivers (camera, etc) use closed libraries
May 12 17:30:35 <Disconnect> for a port, you can now have a reasonable totally-open device if you start with the right hardware and don't want gmail etc.
May 12 17:30:48 <microlith> N900's media player and phone stack are closed, IIRC
May 12 17:30:51 <microlith> among other things
May 12 17:31:12 <SpeedEvil> quite a lot
May 12 17:31:14 <Disconnect> yah there's a decent list with some bizarre entries ('battery management')
May 12 17:31:49 <ShadowJK> we actually have all the docs needed to reimplement open battery management
May 12 17:32:03 <ShadowJK> from hardware point of view atleast
May 12 17:32:52 <Disconnect> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture .. the list i was thinking of was from 4.1 (oops) but that has a more recent graphic at least
May 12 17:33:01 <DocScrutinizer51> Disconnect: muhaha  see BME
May 12 17:33:24 <Disconnect> DocScrutinizer: http://www.bmezine.com/?
May 12 17:33:26 <SpeedEvil> ~BME
May 12 17:33:26 <infobot> methinks bme is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME
May 12 17:34:12 <Disconnect> looks like half of everything is closed source.
May 12 17:34:33 <BCMM> anyone else use AGTL (the geocaching tool)?
May 12 17:34:57 <DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK: that's exactly the crux - we lack a proper function spec of BME and its ABI
May 12 17:35:00 <BCMM> a recent update seems to make it crash on startup
May 12 17:35:24 <ShadowJK> atleast Nokia pays a guy to figure out how to work with letting other distros use binary bits instead of suing people :D
May 12 17:38:02 <DocScrutinizer51> they should pay me to reimplement jrbme
May 12 17:38:06 <Disconnect> ShadowJK: google left me alone for a -long- time shipping binaries of theirs. (because the core android system depended on them.) and they never sued anyone - they sent a standard letter to the people distributing bins after it was possible to build a system without htem. and now they turn a blind eye to the various filesharing links for adding their proprietary apps to devices..
May 12 17:38:21 <DocScrutinizer51> jrbme just replaces bme
May 12 17:39:35 <ShadowJK> yeah :P
May 12 17:39:56 <Shapeshifter> opera is totally awesome. too bad it runs the battery dry in no time
May 12 17:40:14 <ruskie> how many times do you plan on repeating that it is awesome?
May 12 17:40:33 <Shapeshifter> until I'm tired of repeating it
May 12 17:40:50 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: how awesome is it?
May 12 17:40:57 <BCMM> could somebody help me understand the n900 partition scheme?
May 12 17:40:59 <ShadowJK> anyone tried it on n8x0 yet?
May 12 17:41:02 <Shapeshifter> because this really is the first app I really like. maybe besides maep.
May 12 17:41:10 <Shapeshifter> SpeedEvil: totally
May 12 17:41:12 <BCMM> specifically, is /opt/ separate from /
May 12 17:41:19 <GAN900> Disconnect, the split is 80/20
May 12 17:41:31 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: /etc/rc.d/rcS.late (IIRC) generates fstab
May 12 17:41:39 <GAN900> Disconnect, mostly user-facing stuff.
May 12 17:41:40 <Disconnect> GAN900: tab-complete fail :)
May 12 17:41:43 <Disconnect> oh nm
May 12 17:41:43 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: /opt is a directory in /home
May 12 17:41:51 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: ah, ok
May 12 17:41:55 <Disconnect> thought you were talking about the partitioning :)
May 12 17:41:56 <ShadowJK> BCMM, /opt is symlinked to /home/opt, /home is on emmc, / is on onenand
May 12 17:42:00 <GAN900> Disconnect, open/closed.
May 12 17:42:26 <BCMM> ah, didn't think of doing stat /opt/ and was just being confused by it not being in mount output
May 12 17:42:38 <ShadowJK> the attention to detail in Opera is amazing, and awesomely amazing considering it's some engineers' spare time project
May 12 17:42:48 <Disconnect> GAN900: thats kinda nuts anyway for an "open" project. system ui. address book. backup. calendar-backend (wtf its just modified evolution!) etc..
May 12 17:42:59 <BCMM> so what uses space on / ? things that haven't really been set up for maemo?
May 12 17:43:09 <GAN900> Disconnect, well, governance is way more open.
May 12 17:43:21 <GAN900> Disconnect, and Nokia actually works well with upstream
May 12 17:43:30 <GAN900> It's more than just code licenses.
May 12 17:43:32 <BCMM> and when should i be worried about rootfs? there seems to be about 500k available...
May 12 17:43:50 <GAN900> It's been getting steadily better since 2005
May 12 17:43:56 <GAN900> but big ships turn slow.
May 12 17:43:58 <Disconnect> GAN900: android works well with upstream, they just treat downstream coders terribly ;) takes 6 months to get a patch accepted/reviewed, etc.
May 12 17:44:13 <BCMM> is it possible that that is why AGTL keeps crashing on startup with an error (to standard error) about not being able to open a database file?
May 12 17:44:20 <GAN900> Disconnect, er, yeah, except for not sending kernel patches
May 12 17:44:36 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: yes
May 12 17:44:43 <andres> Disconnect: depends on the upstream. You barely can call their linux upstream contacts "collaboration"
May 12 17:44:44 <Disconnect> GAN900: except thats not what happened.
May 12 17:44:58 <GAN900> DiBona didn't even know there were other people in the industry kicking their asses
May 12 17:45:05 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: sorry, to which bit?
May 12 17:45:14 <GAN900> Disconnect, show me their OMAP3 patches, then.
May 12 17:45:15 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: df -h /  dhould show at least several MB free
May 12 17:45:58 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: I was surpised to find myself with 76.5M free earlier.
May 12 17:45:59 <Disconnect> GAN900: you mean http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/omap.git?
May 12 17:46:04 <SpeedEvil> Though I had just flashed.
May 12 17:46:05 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: du -xk /|sort -n
May 12 17:46:21 <crashanddie> Disconnect: 404 - No such project
May 12 17:47:13 <Disconnect> crashanddie: can't help that, it opened here
May 12 17:47:35 <crashanddie> Disconnect: and finding the correct link, it shows the last commits were by Torvalds himself (so no mods from them), and dated Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:12:14 +0000
May 12 17:47:42 <crashanddie> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/omap.git;a=summary
May 12 17:47:44 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: so there is a UBIFS root, an ext3 /home/, and a vfat /home/user/MyDocs?
May 12 17:48:04 <DocScrutinizer51> yes
May 12 17:48:09 <Disconnect> crashanddie: i clicked my paste and got the same page btw.
May 12 17:48:25 <Disconnect> crashanddie: also, thats the upstream head. so yeah, its no susprise that its got only upstream posts. try http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/omap.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/android-omap-2.6.32
May 12 17:48:29 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer51: du -xk /|sort -n should be done from /, right?
May 12 17:48:44 <BCMM> oh
May 12 17:48:47 <BCMM> i didn't see the /
May 12 17:50:01 <Disconnect> (got the working page i mean, so i dunno why you don't see it.) "http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/omap.git"
May 12 17:50:33 <crashanddie> that one works
May 12 17:50:49 <crashanddie> the one with a ? at the end doesn't
May 12 17:51:14 <Disconnect> that wasn't "the one with a ?" that was a question, traditionally ended with ? ..
May 12 17:51:20 <GAN900> Disconnect, dunno, just had this discussion at the LF Summit and DiBona admitted they were doing a bad job of it.
May 12 17:51:24 <Disconnect> 2 ?s in a url is not a valid url
May 12 17:51:33 <crashanddie> Disconnect: just learn to format your damn'd URLs
May 12 17:51:37 <GAN900> So I'm not sure what the value is in defending it. ;)
May 12 17:54:03 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer51: what is /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive for?
May 12 17:54:13 <BCMM> (28 megs)
May 12 17:54:31 <DocScrutinizer> internationalization I think
May 12 17:54:39 <DocScrutinizer> not sure though
May 12 17:54:54 <ddos> heloo
May 12 17:55:15 <ddos> thear gerl?
May 12 17:55:44 <BCMM> ah, installed themes go on / ...
May 12 17:57:07 <BCMM> i can't see anything obvious on / really
May 12 17:57:16 <tripzero> Disconnect, i had a nexus for a while.  it was okay.  I still think the iphone has slightly better responsiveness.  tearing is still a big issue on the droid/nexus/n900 IMHO
May 12 17:58:38 <SpeedEvil> Is anyone one the UK with t-mobile?
May 12 17:58:41 * lcuk mutters stuff under his breath
May 12 17:58:48 <SpeedEvil> I'm not getting the time automatically set
May 12 17:59:29 <Disconnect> i think they still need to work on the process management (and accept that sometimes the user -knows- they won't be going back to an app and should bea llowed to non-destructively kill it) but its still way better responsiveness-wise than the n900 is. and arguably multitasks better since there is such a defined split between "app" and "service".
May 12 17:59:52 <crashanddie> SpeedEvil: didn't work for me either with Vodafone in the UK, SFR in France, and Vodafone in Australia
May 12 18:00:41 * frals trouts a breath under lcuks mutter
May 12 18:01:19 <hawai`i> somebody solve my QT linking problem for me.
May 12 18:02:04 * BCMM stabs Qt
May 12 18:02:07 <SpeedEvil> crashanddie: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10163 - I think it's a bug it won't use GPS to not set the time.
May 12 18:02:08 <povbot> Bug 10163: GPS does not automatically set time of device.
May 12 18:02:10 <BCMM> there you go
May 12 18:03:10 <hawai`i> My main man BCMM!
May 12 18:03:16 * hawai`i humps your leg
May 12 18:04:56 <BCMM> it seems that texlive is mostly installed on root
May 12 18:05:25 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: if i move texlive to opt and symlink it myself, will my n900 catch fire?
May 12 18:05:48 <BCMM> or break horribly next time a new texlive versions comes out (ha ha) or something?
May 12 18:05:58 <hawai`i> No
May 12 18:06:06 <hawai`i> A new one will simply blow the symlinks away
May 12 18:06:17 <DocScrutinizer-8> for sure nothing bad will happe
May 12 18:06:55 <BCMM> at 14 megs for /usr/share/texmf-texlive, that is pretty much what the problem was, right?
May 12 18:07:55 <DocScrutinizer-8> hmm
May 12 18:08:36 <BCMM> anybody know how much space / has out of the box?
May 12 18:09:08 <Disconnect> SpeedEvil: for some reason, none of the devices i've had with gps ever use it to set the time. which is dumb, since its a ton more accurate (and faster) than ntp, and way more likely to not be insane like the cell towers..
May 12 18:09:28 <hawai`i> 46MB ish?
May 12 18:10:13 <BCMM> that's weird; texlive is supposed to be optified
May 12 18:10:25 <BCMM> can somebody more experience help me?
May 12 18:10:49 <BCMM> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42087 - this seems to imply that texlive ought not to install 14mb of stuff to the root partition, right?
May 12 18:11:58 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: no, it absolutely should not. It doing so is a flat bug.
May 12 18:12:12 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: ah, thanks
May 12 18:12:19 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: did you read the forum post?
May 12 18:12:56 <SpeedEvil> I skimmed the first couple of posts till I saw the line 'virtually nothing on root'
May 12 18:12:59 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: "It's already optified" means "it installs virtually nothing on /," right?
May 12 18:13:01 <BCMM> oh
May 12 18:13:01 <SpeedEvil> 14M is not virtually nothing
May 12 18:13:03 <SpeedEvil> yes
May 12 18:13:05 <BCMM> i didn't see that bit
May 12 18:13:07 <BCMM> ah
May 12 18:13:18 <SpeedEvil> It's possibly an oops in a later version
May 12 18:13:44 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: i'm pretty much a debian newbie; how can i see the release history of a package?
May 12 18:14:05 <SpeedEvil> dunno
May 12 18:14:12 <SpeedEvil> what's the package?
May 12 18:14:18 <SpeedEvil> oh
May 12 18:14:20 <dima202> Hey Doc, my video is a copyright, I am not sure if it would be legal to post in bugtraq
May 12 18:14:51 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: a number of packages pulling it deps; trying to work out which i installed
May 12 18:14:52 <dima202> I can host on my server but i think i might get in trouble because of copyright crap
May 12 18:15:14 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/packages/view/texlive-latex-recommended/
May 12 18:15:15 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: the app manager only shows a subset, right? the ones one might actually use without all the libs?
May 12 18:15:16 <SpeedEvil> shows versions
May 12 18:15:36 <BCMM> i think i did more than that, cause i needed some scientific packages
May 12 18:15:53 <BCMM> (it is very, very cool that the n900 has latex)
May 12 18:16:32 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: is it possible to search packages i have installed
May 12 18:16:44 <BCMM> (all packages, not just ones taht show in app manager)
May 12 18:16:58 <BCMM> i know how to search all packages period with apt-cache
May 12 18:17:12 <SpeedEvil> don't know, soryr
May 12 18:17:24 <Disconnect> BCMM: dpkg -l
May 12 18:18:31 <BCMM> Disconnect: does that search in descriptions too?
May 12 18:19:22 <pupnik_> app mgr is beastly slow with -devel repo added
May 12 18:19:33 <hawai`i> BCMM: That lists applications and descriptions.
May 12 18:19:45 <BCMM> ah, i can list all of them then grep
May 12 18:19:47 <BCMM> thx
May 12 18:21:55 <BCMM> is there a way to select which version of a package one gets when installing it?
May 12 18:22:03 <dima202> Can someone please verify that media player will output to tv using the cables video larger then 55minute or over 400mb
May 12 18:22:20 <dima202> It's blacking out my tv every video file i try
May 12 18:22:42 <lcuk> dima202, ?
May 12 18:23:01 <lcuk> blacking out after 55minutes?
May 12 18:23:08 <tripzero> dima202, works for me
May 12 18:23:08 <dima202> no as soon as video starts
May 12 18:23:13 <tripzero> playing LOTR
May 12 18:23:18 <dima202> i see it on n900 but not on tv
May 12 18:23:20 <SpeedEvil> dima202: Do you have the n900 set to the right standard - NTSC/PAL
May 12 18:23:29 <dima202> yeah, small videos work
May 12 18:23:55 <BCMM> gah, it also installs man pages, despite the absense of 'man'
May 12 18:24:07 <dima202> Canola does the same thing
May 12 18:24:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> BCMM: no absence of man anymore
May 12 18:24:35 <BCMM> one can install man?
May 12 18:24:47 <dima202> i got man with easy debian
May 12 18:24:48 <DocScrutinizer-8> ask MohammadAG_
May 12 18:24:55 <dima202> but back to my video problem .. ;(
May 12 18:25:14 <hawai`i> man pages are a waste of space
May 12 18:25:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> aiuinman should be in devel since rh
May 12 18:25:46 <etrunko> dima202: works for me
May 12 18:25:49 <DocScrutinizer-8> hawai`i: you too
May 12 18:26:06 <etrunko> i have about 40 ripped dvds with more than 1h
May 12 18:26:13 <hawai`i> I actually don't exist, so I'm not.
May 12 18:27:34 <DocScrutinizer-8> man pages take ~0.1% of my precious 32G
May 12 18:28:13 <DocScrutinizer-8> and I copied a darn butload of manpages to it
May 12 18:28:13 <dima202>  
May 12 18:28:19 <hawai`i> Do honestly need them?
May 12 18:28:39 <DocScrutinizer-8> some 12000 manpages to be specific about it
May 12 18:29:09 <DocScrutinizer-8> hawai`i: the 50MB? not at all
May 12 18:29:13 <dima202> I think nokia wrote a code specifically for my n900 to stop showing video on tv
May 12 18:29:16 <Stskeeps> ooh, i love http://talk.maemo.org/thankedposts.php
May 12 18:29:20 <hawai`i> Do you need the darn manpages?
May 12 18:29:40 <DocScrutinizer-8> do I need the N900?
May 12 18:30:04 <hawai`i> Let's not get all philosophyical here.
May 12 18:30:04 <pupnik_> ty ty Stskeeps
May 12 18:30:30 <DocScrutinizer-8> sorry yes I need them. don't know all 12k by heart
May 12 18:32:16 <DocScrutinizer-8> and thanks to friggin messybox not even foo --help is of any help
May 12 18:32:24 <dima202> Guys give me a reason why my N900 cuts off video
May 12 18:32:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> no idea
May 12 18:32:39 <Stskeeps> dima202: it has a bad day
May 12 18:32:49 <lcuk> dima202, reboot?
May 12 18:33:08 <DocScrutinizer-8> bad video format?
May 12 18:33:15 <dima202> I have rebooted
May 12 18:33:18 <lcuk> ok
May 12 18:33:20 <dima202> I tried 45 different videos
May 12 18:33:29 <dima202> .mkv .avi .mp4 whatever
May 12 18:33:35 <dima202> anything over 400mb cuts out
May 12 18:33:57 <lcuk> just to tvout?
May 12 18:34:01 <lcuk> orto everything
May 12 18:34:03 <dima202> and reoobted a few times too
May 12 18:34:08 <dima202> just tv out
May 12 18:34:10 <dima202> n900 shows
May 12 18:34:26 <DocScrutinizer-8> never had a video gt 400MB on N900
May 12 18:35:08 <dima202> I have exercise videos, work videos, movies, educational videos. I'm a big video collector kinda guy
May 12 18:35:25 <DocScrutinizer-8> might be swapsize related? o.O
May 12 18:35:43 <valdyn> dima202: what exactly is "cuts off" ?
May 12 18:36:11 <dima202> TV goes black until I show multiple apps
May 12 18:36:44 <dima202> or close media player or that particular video
May 12 18:36:45 <DocScrutinizer-8> dima202: pm me a linnk to  download one of those, and I'll test
May 12 18:36:54 <valdyn> i cant believe this is at 400mb
May 12 18:36:57 <dima202> DocScrutinizer-8: thanks, I will in a min
May 12 18:37:06 <N900evil> does it go back to showing when you go back to player?
May 12 18:38:00 <thresh> duh
May 12 18:38:00 <DocScrutinizer-8> and does it turn black on start or some time later?
May 12 18:38:10 <thresh> googlelatitude: Depends: libqt4-core (>= 4.6.2~git20100224-0maemo1+0m5) but 4.5.3~git20090723-0maemo6+0m5 is to be installed
May 12 18:38:18 <E0x> i will do the test with a big video
May 12 18:38:20 <E0x> wait
May 12 18:38:29 <MiXu-> thresh: Requires PR1.2
May 12 18:38:31 <thresh> is it that infamous "we're waiting for PR1.2 so our packages would be installable" stuff?
May 12 18:38:35 <thresh> mmkay
May 12 18:38:36 <thresh> :E
May 12 18:40:04 <E0x> dima202: i am coping a 700MB video to my n900 to test
May 12 18:40:29 <dima202> thanks E0x I am uploading a test video to my ftp
May 12 18:41:21 <Stskeeps> http://talk.maemo.org/thankedposts.php?since=999
May 12 18:41:25 <Stskeeps> most thanked post on tmo, woo
May 12 18:42:15 <E0x> dima202: playing it fine
May 12 18:42:20 <E0x> how long i need wait ?
May 12 18:42:57 <dima202> Are you seeing the video on the tv at all?
May 12 18:43:02 <E0x> oh
May 12 18:43:03 <E0x> not
May 12 18:43:06 <E0x> at the n900
May 12 18:43:07 <dima202> For me it doesn't play a second I get that loading thing
May 12 18:43:09 <E0x> was on the tv ?
May 12 18:43:18 <dima202> what?
May 12 18:43:22 <GAN900> Stskeeps, whore.
May 12 18:43:32 <Stskeeps> GAN900: biggest tmo whore
May 12 18:43:40 <E0x> dima202: i mean you error is went you use the tv-out ?
May 12 18:44:05 <MiXu-> I haven't even tried the tv-out on N900 :)
May 12 18:44:06 <DocScrutinizer-8> Stskeeps: you need a statistic site to know that? :-P
May 12 18:44:10 * GAN900 wonders when bugzilla karma will be fixed so he can go back to being the super whore.
May 12 18:44:22 <MohammadAG_> was I pinged?
May 12 18:44:25 * MohammadAG_ scrolls up
May 12 18:44:27 <thresh> Stskeeps: nice post, thanks
May 12 18:44:52 <dima202> E0x: yeah when I have tv out the and try to play video i get the loading screen then tv blacks out
May 12 18:45:14 * DocScrutinizer-8 wonders if tmo karma will eventually take into account past posts
May 12 18:45:19 <MohammadAG_> <hawai`i> man pages are a waste of space <-- you suck m8
May 12 18:45:20 <MohammadAG_> :P
May 12 18:45:33 <E0x> ah sorry i can't do that test
May 12 18:45:39 <MohammadAG_> man-db and man-db-pages are in devel
May 12 18:45:43 <MohammadAG_> 14MBs from /opt
May 12 18:45:47 <MohammadAG_> back to cod
May 12 18:45:55 <valdyn> i played 1.2G sized mkv movies on tv just fine
May 12 18:46:10 <DocScrutinizer-8> otoh I give a shit about karma=36
May 12 18:46:18 <MiXu-> Hmm? mkv support works now?
May 12 18:46:39 <valdyn> err no, it was mp4 i think
May 12 18:46:58 <valdyn> sorry for that, but it defenitely was 1.2G sized and worked fine
May 12 18:47:04 <DocScrutinizer-8> angrybirds is a waste of space
May 12 18:47:12 <Stskeeps> angrybirds was awesome
May 12 18:47:32 <yuizy_> the best game for n900
May 12 18:47:35 <yuizy_> :P
May 12 18:47:36 <dima202_> how to kill ghost?
May 12 18:48:04 <DocScrutinizer-8> numptyphysics is awesome
May 12 18:48:44 <dima202_> DocScrutinizer-8: my upload is pretty bad 70kb/s it might take me a few hours ;(
May 12 18:49:44 <DocScrutinizer-8> np
May 12 18:49:48 <thresh> dima202_: /msg nickserv ghost dima202_ lovesexsecretgod
May 12 18:49:55 <thresh> err ghost dima202 of course
May 12 18:52:24 <Dima202> ty
May 12 18:52:30 <Dima202> how did you know my password o.O?
May 12 18:52:52 <DocScrutinizer-8> was too easy
May 12 18:53:41 <MiXu-> Graaaah. Broke my scratchbox and can't reinstall.
May 12 18:53:54 <MiXu-> can you do optifying with madde?
May 12 18:54:54 <BCMM> how does one report bugs in 3rd party apps?
May 12 18:55:05 <DocScrutinizer-8> what's so particularly hard in optifyingaü
May 12 19:01:24 <mikki-kun> hmpf... how does one properly alias something that it will be read? i can't seem to figure that out on my n900 :( it doesn't source the .ashrc ;/
May 12 19:01:46 <pupnik>   .profile
May 12 19:02:47 <mikki-kun> pupnik: .profile in ~ ?
May 12 19:03:05 <pupnik> ya
May 12 19:03:55 <mikki-kun> ahhh, that was the goddamn file, thanks :)
May 12 19:05:13 <BCMM> is there a coordinated system for reporting bugs in third-party apps, or does one just whine on the forums?
May 12 19:05:30 <Stskeeps> yes, there's usually a bug tracker link in the apps pages
May 12 19:05:43 <BCMM> oh, there is a catagory on bugs.maemo.org
May 12 19:10:08 <arthur_sr> do anybody has gotten problems installing maemo 4 in scratchbox 5?
May 12 19:10:30 <crashanddie> lolwut
May 12 19:13:08 <arthur_sr> i'm trying to install maemo 4 in scratchbox, but i'm getting the following error:
May 12 19:13:19 <arthur_sr> Scratchbox CPU transparency method for ARMEL is present... no
May 12 19:13:19 <arthur_sr> E: CPU transparency method 'qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb2' not found.
May 12 19:13:19 <arthur_sr> E: Please complete scratchbox installation first.
May 12 19:13:19 <arthur_sr> E: Specify an alternative CPU transparency method using '-q NAME' option.
May 12 19:13:34 <arthur_sr> do anyone knows why?
May 12 19:15:51 <lcuk> arthur_sr, i bet you are missing cpu transparency methods
May 12 19:16:09 <lcuk> what OS are you trying to install into and which method are you using to do it
May 12 19:16:20 <MohammadAG_> There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. <-- damn genius!
May 12 19:18:59 <arthur_sr> lcuk, kubuntu 9.04 and i'm trying to run the acript maemo-sdk-install_4.0.sh, i have the scratchbox 5.0 installed and maemo sdk 5.0 works fine, but now i'm trying to use the 4.0 too, but i'm getting these problems...
May 12 19:21:21 <lcuk> arthur_sr, 32b 64b?
May 12 19:21:32 <arthur_sr> lcuk, 32b
May 12 19:21:34 <lcuk> oh cripes arthur_sr
May 12 19:21:48 <lcuk> i dunno how that would work then
May 12 19:22:30 <arthur_sr> lcuk, 64b have a similar problem?
May 12 19:23:40 <lcuk> 64b has more common gotchas than 32b thats why i asked
May 12 19:23:45 <lcuk> but you are doing something different
May 12 19:24:00 <lcuk> the cputransp stuff was more of a problem afaik for diablo
May 12 19:24:07 <lcuk> you will have to use google
May 12 19:26:35 <johnsq> Hi
May 12 19:27:42 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, wish somebody would write up a plugin for IRC karma
May 12 19:27:57 <DocScrutinizer-8> lol
May 12 19:27:58 <GAN900> Hey, crashanddie, you have tons of free time, right? :P
May 12 19:28:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~karma GAN900
May 12 19:28:15 <infobot> gan900 has neutral karma
May 12 19:28:34 <MohammadAG_> ~karma MohammadAG
May 12 19:28:35 <infobot> mohammadag has neutral karma
May 12 19:28:42 <MohammadAG_> so.. how does it work?
May 12 19:28:43 <GAN900> IRC lines
May 12 19:28:46 <MohammadAG_> ~karma infobot
May 12 19:28:46 <infobot> infobot has karma of 5
May 12 19:28:54 <MohammadAG_> selfish bot
May 12 19:29:05 <GAN900> ~DocScrutinizer++
May 12 19:29:10 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~infobot--
May 12 19:29:20 <MohammadAG_> ~karma DocScrutinizer
May 12 19:29:20 <infobot> docscrutinizer has karma of 2
May 12 19:30:31 * DocScrutinizer-8 hates the braindamaged infobot karma concept
May 12 19:31:04 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~docsrutinizer++
May 12 19:31:06 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~docsrutinizer++
May 12 19:31:11 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~docsrutinizer++
May 12 19:31:21 <arachnist> ~karma DocScrutinizer-8
May 12 19:31:21 <infobot> docscrutinizer-8 has neutral karma
May 12 19:31:26 <arachnist> ~karma DocScrutinizer
May 12 19:31:26 <infobot> docscrutinizer has karma of 2
May 12 19:36:52 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~gan900++
May 12 19:36:58 <DocScrutinizer-8> :-P
May 12 19:37:46 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~GeneralAntilles++
May 12 19:38:22 <DocScrutinizer-8> ...that's outright silly
May 12 19:38:46 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~windows--
May 12 19:41:33 <Proteous> heh
May 12 19:43:35 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~karma bush
May 12 19:43:35 <infobot> bush has neutral karma
May 12 19:43:36 <trumee> how can i enable unzip support in thr filemanager?
May 12 19:43:49 <DocScrutinizer-8> I hunbly doubt
May 12 19:44:16 <trumee> unzip in cli is tiring :)
May 12 19:44:39 <DocScrutinizer-8> FM is crap, use MC instead
May 12 19:44:41 <luke-jr> who uses zip?
May 12 19:44:55 <trumee> mc it is then
May 12 19:45:22 <trumee> luke-jr: files downloaded from internet!
May 12 19:46:03 <luke-jr> trumee: no, files on the internet are always .tbz2, .tar.lzma, or sometimes .tar.gz still
May 12 19:47:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> lmao
May 12 19:48:07 <DocScrutinizer-8> "I zipped it as I dunno if you got untar" OWTTE in this chan
May 12 19:48:36 <hawai`i> if somebody sent me a tar.lzma, I would punch them in the throat
May 12 19:49:23 * ShadowJK sends a tar.xz to hawai`i 
May 12 19:49:29 <hawai`i> omfg
May 12 19:49:35 <hawai`i> You saw that eh?
May 12 19:49:55 <DocScrutinizer-8> HERE IN THIS CHANNEL muhahahahHAA*gasp*
May 12 19:49:56 <hawai`i> I see that busybox has no `strings`
May 12 19:50:03 <hawai`i> WEAKSAUCE
May 12 19:50:08 * MohammadAG_ sens hawai`i a tar.lzma and puts one sided chainsaw on his throat
May 12 19:50:11 <ShadowJK> I'll repent by creating a few .lha :(
May 12 19:50:38 <hawai`i> MohammadAG_: A one sided chain saw eh?
May 12 19:50:40 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~nuke busybox
May 12 19:50:43 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~die
May 12 19:50:50 <hawai`i> WTF is this?
May 12 19:50:51 * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.
May 12 19:50:53 <DocScrutinizer-8> ~useless
May 12 19:50:53 * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer-8 in the darkest corner of the room. :(
May 12 19:50:56 <hawai`i> `less` shows my printable characters
May 12 19:50:59 <hawai`i> but cat doesn't show anything
May 12 19:51:08 <hawai`i> What the fuck kind of magic is less doing from terminal input?
May 12 19:51:27 <MohammadAG_> hawai`i, yeah, punch me whenever you want
May 12 19:51:29 <DocScrutinizer-8> which less?
May 12 19:51:46 <DocScrutinizer-8> messybox less?
May 12 19:51:51 <hawai`i> DocScrutinizer-8: not Maemo related.
May 12 19:51:57 <hawai`i> full GNU less.
May 12 19:52:02 <DocScrutinizer-8> k
May 12 19:52:03 <hawai`i> infact.
May 12 19:52:07 <DocScrutinizer-8> man less then
May 12 19:52:09 <hawai`i> `more` doesn't show printable ASCII either
May 12 19:52:14 <hawai`i> I know how to use less, lol
May 12 19:52:20 <hawai`i> This is messed up.
May 12 19:52:40 <hawai`i> I have a uuencoded file, that I decode and cat out the contents...
May 12 19:52:54 <hawai`i> It is non-printable ascii, magic boxes and the like
May 12 19:53:11 <hawai`i> I `less` it out, and I get the interactive console, with my desired printable strings.
May 12 19:54:12 <hawai`i> hm
May 12 19:54:21 <hawai`i> if I set a less logfile, I can cat out the contents properly.
May 12 19:54:26 <hawai`i> This is blowing mymind
May 12 19:54:48 <DocScrutinizer> check -r
May 12 19:54:52 <ruskie> -R iirc
May 12 19:54:59 <ruskie> less -R tends to work for man pages usually
May 12 19:54:59 <DocScrutinizer> or that
May 12 19:55:04 <ruskie> mostly
May 12 19:55:08 <ShadowJK> less is so configurable, ranging from. automagically parsing random stuff like manpages into something readable, to being nothing more than a 'more' you can scroll both ways in
May 12 19:55:25 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 12 19:55:50 <DocScrutinizer> unless it's messybox less which is a more you can't scroll backwards
May 12 19:56:02 <hawai`i> but I don't want to do it in less
May 12 19:56:10 <hawai`i> Unless I can disable the interactivity
May 12 19:56:15 <ShadowJK> more isn't supposed to scroll backwards ;p
May 12 19:56:22 <hawai`i> I assume there is a dumb mode
May 12 19:56:26 <ruskie> shift+pgup works ;)
May 12 19:56:42 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: that's why messybox less is actually linked to more ;-P
May 12 19:56:58 <DocScrutinizer> mad usefull
May 12 19:57:10 <hawai`i> haha god I hated that
May 12 19:57:21 <hawai`i> busybox has it's place, though.
May 12 19:57:25 <ruskie> I tend to use more for most things and less only for a few bits and pieces
May 12 19:57:44 <hawai`i> I actually symlink GNU less to more
May 12 19:57:51 <DocScrutinizer> hawai`i: yep, far away from user interactive it's for sure a nice little script interpreter
May 12 19:58:01 <hawai`i> if I'm using a file pager, I want full power.
May 12 19:58:37 <hawai`i> No point in paging through it with more, when less functions the same on a dumb level, and has more functionality when I need it.
May 12 19:58:58 <opdf2> frals?
May 12 19:59:08 <hawai`i> ~seen frals
May 12 19:59:13 <hawai`i> WHAT?!
May 12 19:59:13 <infobot> frals <~frals@Maemo/community/contributor/frals> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 32m 10s ago, saying: 'oh, dunno that, sorry :)'.
May 12 19:59:29 <DocScrutinizer> after all that's what it's designed for, not for driving users insane with "BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso26+0m5) built-in shell (ash)  Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands"
May 12 19:59:40 <ohwhyme> does anyone know why my call log keeps dissapearing?
May 12 20:01:05 <DocScrutinizer> PAGER=less
May 12 20:01:44 <hawai`i> Reminds of that movie, Angels in the Outfield
May 12 20:01:47 <hawai`i> where he says "less is more"
May 12 20:01:53 <hawai`i> I'm all, DAMN STRAIGHT IT IS.
May 12 20:02:40 <DocScrutinizer> man less -> less - opposite of more
May 12 20:03:04 <hawai`i> wait
May 12 20:03:18 <hawai`i> How do you disable the interactive console with `less`?
May 12 20:04:02 <DocScrutinizer> wut
May 12 20:04:16 <Disconnect> lol
May 12 20:04:23 <hawai`i> Well, obviously `less` is doing something that `cat` isn't
May 12 20:04:31 <hawai`i> as cat is not showing my printable ASCII
May 12 20:04:34 <hawai`i> yet less is.
May 12 20:04:37 <DocScrutinizer> sure, it opens a screen
May 12 20:04:50 <b-man> damn, i just missed Addison :(
May 12 20:04:58 <hawai`i> no, it's doing some other voodoo.
May 12 20:05:04 <DocScrutinizer> and doesn't do line editing discipline
May 12 20:05:10 <hawai`i> IT'S DOING MOAR
May 12 20:05:13 <hawai`i> AND I MUST KNOW WHY
May 12 20:05:22 <hawai`i> wtf
May 12 20:05:32 <hawai`i> Why are both my cores locked at 2GHz?
May 12 20:05:43 <hawai`i> No wonder this Thinkpad is getting so hot.
May 12 20:05:46 <DocScrutinizer> OC kernel ? ;-P
May 12 20:06:06 <hawai`i> dude
May 12 20:06:09 <hawai`i> My balls are sweating
May 12 20:06:14 <tripzero> ew
May 12 20:06:17 <hawai`i> Haha
May 12 20:06:29 <hawai`i> Both were running at 2.10GHz
May 12 20:06:54 <ShadowJK> you accidentally enabled adobe flash?
May 12 20:07:02 <DocScrutinizer> awesome, now titan has doubled the number of cores
May 12 20:07:04 <tripzero> lol
May 12 20:07:07 <hawai`i> My battery would be dead, if that happned.
May 12 20:07:44 <ShadowJK> ah just decompressing a tar.gz.bz2.lzma.xz then?
May 12 20:07:53 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
May 12 20:08:06 <hawai`i> :P
May 12 20:08:09 * DocScrutinizer cackles evilly
May 12 20:08:22 <ShadowJK> the cool kids know how to optimalize compression
May 12 20:08:33 <DocScrutinizer> prolly just a .zip
May 12 20:09:01 <ShadowJK> but if you want to be really l33t, you split the tar.gz.bz2.lzma.xz into 50 .rar files
May 12 20:09:13 <DocScrutinizer> yeehaa!
May 12 20:09:19 <hawai`i> hahaha
May 12 20:09:28 <DocScrutinizer> RAR how could I forget about that
May 12 20:10:24 <hawai`i> You're too busy using CAB's
May 12 20:10:32 <DocScrutinizer> eeeeeew
May 12 20:10:42 * DocScrutinizer running for the bathroom
May 12 20:11:02 <ShadowJK> cabs are cool
May 12 20:11:10 <DocScrutinizer> yellowcabs
May 12 20:11:19 <ShadowJK> they're like the enterprise version of .deb
May 12 20:11:31 * DocScrutinizer humms "Mr cab driver"
May 12 20:11:54 <ptl> windows cabs?
May 12 20:12:10 <ptl> enterprise? really?
May 12 20:12:18 <ohwhyme> anyone know why my call log keeps getting deleted
May 12 20:12:18 <FauxFaux> There's no such thing as a cab.
May 12 20:12:29 <FauxFaux> ohwhyme: Your son keeps calling sex lines./
May 12 20:12:40 <ohwhyme> i sure hope i dont have kids :o
May 12 20:12:59 <ShadowJK> ptl: yeah. you take something useful and have a big corporation remove everything good and useful from it
May 12 20:13:02 <FauxFaux> Okay, it's your mother, then.
May 12 20:13:03 <hawai`i> I don't know if you're intentionally missing a comma there, ohwhyme
May 12 20:13:07 <ptl> ShadowJK: lol
May 12 20:13:21 <ptl> ShadowJK: good definition of enterprise!
May 12 20:13:42 <ohwhyme> haha
May 12 20:14:42 <DocScrutinizer> lol
May 12 20:15:16 <DocScrutinizer> /etc/init.d/alsasound reload killed Kontact (plus another few)
May 12 20:16:21 <DocScrutinizer> it even killed Konsole
May 12 20:16:56 <DocScrutinizer> I swear if I ever get to meet the dude who pushed PA into all fscking distros
May 12 20:17:10 <lcuk> lol
May 12 20:17:37 <DocScrutinizer> hope he'll be accompanied by the phonon guys
May 12 20:18:33 <hawai`i> Ditch KDE fool
May 12 20:18:38 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, it really grinds on the #qt bunch if you call it phenom
May 12 20:19:01 * lcuk found out the hard way
May 12 20:19:14 <DocScrutinizer> hawai`i: for using what then? g* crap??
May 12 20:21:20 * DocScrutinizer beats novel with KDE4 until they beg for going back to KDE3 forever
May 12 20:22:45 <tybollt> I'm still using KDE3
May 12 20:24:25 <ptl> pulseaudio is nice and it is present in N900 too :)
May 12 20:25:12 <hawai`i> PA is easier to hack on than ALSA is.
May 12 20:25:45 <hawai`i> but OSS is arguably better.
May 12 20:26:15 <wazd> oh dear, my sister didn't get UK visa
May 12 20:26:20 <ptl> I always thought it was obsolete (because it's old). Feature-wise, it rivals pulseaudio?
May 12 20:26:22 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer-8, don't give karma to trolls. :P
May 12 20:26:24 <wazd> screw you, brits :D
May 12 20:27:35 <hawai`i> ptl: It is obselete, but I preferred the uh...simplicity of it, I guess.
May 12 20:28:16 <ptl> hawai`i: it might be simpler but I think pulseaudio is *needed* in order to ingrate the craziness of different linux sound subsystems.
May 12 20:28:26 <DocScrutinizer> FSCKDAMNBSFFS! flash plugin update came with borked audio
May 12 20:28:28 <ptl> s/ingrate/integrate/
May 12 20:28:29 <infobot> ptl meant: hawai`i: it might be simpler but I think pulseaudio is *needed* in order to integrate the craziness of different linux sound subsystems.
May 12 20:28:57 <DocScrutinizer> no more youtube - isn't that a great step ahead?? >:-(
May 12 20:28:59 <hawai`i> ptl: I'll completely agree with that.
May 12 20:29:40 <DocScrutinizer> ~lart Adobe
May 12 20:29:40 * infobot cuts off Adobe's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper
May 12 20:30:05 <b-man> lol
May 12 20:31:19 <DocScrutinizer> anybody nay idea how to tweak flash plugin's audio setup?
May 12 20:31:44 <SpeedEvil> hexedit
May 12 20:31:44 <tybollt> doc: What they done now?
May 12 20:31:51 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: flash 's it?
May 12 20:32:25 <DocScrutinizer> or even what the default audio system and setup is, that flash plugin comes with?
May 12 20:33:30 * DocScrutinizer gets upset
May 12 20:38:53 <DocScrutinizer> I *BET* this BS uses PA :-(((
May 12 20:39:12 <DocScrutinizer> hardcoded
May 12 20:39:30 <BCMM> you *only just* got upset about flash?
May 12 20:39:31 <DocScrutinizer> prolly they learnt to do so from skype
May 12 20:39:58 <BCMM> i have been continually upset about flash since the late 90s
May 12 20:41:53 <DocScrutinizer> sure, but desapite PA which came with recent system update mostly broke audio for my laptop, at least Konqueror with flash was able to playback youtube video *with sound*. Now some friggin site urged me to update flash plugin, and now sound is *completely* broken
May 12 20:43:11 <hawai`i> Anybody know if sharutils has been cross compiled?
May 12 20:45:10 <hawai`i> Never mind, it's not in the repos. Guess I'll do that now.
May 12 20:45:56 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, you don't want to waste time on YouTube anyway. :P
May 12 20:47:27 <DocScrutinizer> Sam Lowry says "fixed itself"
May 12 20:47:31 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; Noticed a new update on the translations, it seemed to correct my issues. Sorry not getting back on checking the translations files, just been quite busy at work lately
May 12 20:47:51 <DocScrutinizer> Mr Tuttle grins
May 12 20:48:21 <DocScrutinizer> fsck Central Services err... Adobe
May 12 20:48:57 <DocScrutinizer> "where's your 27B/6?"
May 12 20:50:15 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq6rEPBN7aA
May 12 20:51:52 <MohammadAG>  23:51:50 up 3 min, load average: 4.32, 3.01, 1.26
May 12 20:51:57 <MohammadAG> I hate tracker
May 12 20:52:47 <hawai`i> wtf
May 12 20:52:56 <hawai`i> sharutils doesn't actually provide `strings`
May 12 20:53:22 <timeless_mbp> Trizt: hrm, good to hear
May 12 20:53:28 <Stskeeps> hawai`i: strings ds
May 12 20:53:30 <Stskeeps> does
May 12 20:54:09 <hawai`i> I can't find the damn source for the `strings` package.
May 12 20:54:33 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; it may be some extra package I have installed that is the root of the problem, but at the moment I'm a bit too lazy to investigate
May 12 20:54:38 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp: new update on translations? maybe for diablo??
May 12 20:55:19 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: i haven't tried doing anything for diablo for a while
May 12 20:55:22 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp: (icon_home_thumbnail_tanna-fi)
May 12 20:55:31 <timeless_mbp> oh, interesting
May 12 20:55:36 * timeless_mbp goes fishing
May 12 20:55:38 <hawai`i>  Stskeeps, any leads?
May 12 20:55:43 <DocScrutinizer> still unchanged since last year
May 12 20:55:58 <hawai`i> Oops, sharutils is for uuen/decode, which I did want, anyways.
May 12 20:56:40 <MohammadAG> hawai`i, watcha packaging?
May 12 20:56:52 <tripzero> that's what she asked
May 12 20:57:02 <hawai`i> MohammadAG: uudecode, uuencode and strings.
May 12 20:57:03 <MohammadAG> pfft
May 12 20:57:18 <hawai`i> I have a shit ton of scripts I need to write for work.
May 12 20:58:46 <timeless_mbp> hrm, i see a copy of my strings
May 12 20:58:49 <MohammadAG> oh, thought you were making HAM icons for a package
May 12 20:58:52 <BCMM> i can't possibly think why right now, but i'm sure i'll need strings at some point
May 12 20:58:54 <timeless_mbp> but it isn't a versioned copy
May 12 20:58:55 <BCMM> hmm
May 12 20:58:58 <timeless_mbp> and i know i have a versioned copy
May 12 20:59:03 <BCMM> has anybody packaged 'file'?
May 12 20:59:10 <MohammadAG> what's file
May 12 20:59:17 <DocScrutinizer> hawai`i: binutils /usr/bin/strings ?
May 12 20:59:32 <MohammadAG> nvm, I have man-db now :D
May 12 20:59:39 <BCMM> MohammadAG: /usr/bin/file
May 12 20:59:47 <hawai`i> BCMM: nope.
May 12 20:59:52 <BCMM> awww
May 12 20:59:56 <BCMM> i've wanted it a few times
May 12 21:00:20 <BCMM> MohammadAG: it tells you what sort of file a file is (without looking at the filename)
May 12 21:00:49 <BCMM> for some more common formats, if gives you useful information (things like codec and bitrate, for some AV containers)
May 12 21:01:10 <hawai`i> actually
May 12 21:01:23 <hawai`i> It's probably in Jebba's ETCH repository.
May 12 21:01:28 <BCMM> hawai`i: what is that?
May 12 21:01:54 <hawai`i> BCMM: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43188
May 12 21:01:57 <MohammadAG> he recpiled all etch packages for maemo
May 12 21:02:02 <MohammadAG> recompiled*
May 12 21:02:12 <hawai`i> Built them against extras repo.
May 12 21:02:17 <hawai`i> It's actually extremely awesome.
May 12 21:02:37 <BCMM> hawai`i: so, previously you could get debian stuff with a chroot
May 12 21:02:53 <BCMM> now you can basically have normal debian things on the system in a sensible way?
May 12 21:03:04 <hawai`i> BCMM: I suppose, it's sensible yes.
May 12 21:03:11 <DocScrutinizer> beware, it's HUGE
May 12 21:03:11 <hawai`i> You still need to be extremely careful.
May 12 21:03:24 <BCMM> well, without multiple C libs and such
May 12 21:03:26 <hawai`i> You're probably better off using the imaged chroot
May 12 21:03:36 <hawai`i> It allows for a huge margin of error
May 12 21:03:38 <BCMM> hawai`i: why the careful?
May 12 21:03:53 <DocScrutinizer> not optified of course
May 12 21:04:01 <BCMM> ooh, gnu screen
May 12 21:04:05 <hawai`i> They are optified. Initial pass optification.
May 12 21:04:11 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
May 12 21:04:21 <DocScrutinizer> talking out of my arse
May 12 21:04:27 <BCMM> what does "all Debian Etch source packages" mean?
May 12 21:04:42 <BCMM> 8 days doesn't seem long enough to build everything a distro offers
May 12 21:04:45 <hawai`i> All the packages from the Debian etch release.
May 12 21:04:51 <MohammadAG> all souces from debian etch
May 12 21:04:55 <hawai`i> Do you ever stop asking absolutely silly questions?
May 12 21:05:24 <BCMM> hawai`i: what i mean is something like, how comprehensive is the debian etch release?
May 12 21:05:35 * MohammadAG washes hawai`i's mouth with soap
May 12 21:05:52 * BCMM looks at the list
May 12 21:05:53 <BCMM> woah
May 12 21:05:56 <hawai`i> BCMM: it's the entire Debian semi-stable release.
May 12 21:06:01 <DocScrutinizer> I never thought that might help
May 12 21:06:21 <Proteous> SOAP BLINDNESS!!
May 12 21:06:22 <DocScrutinizer> took some hours to build
May 12 21:06:42 <DocScrutinizer> ~hail jebba
May 12 21:06:51 <DocScrutinizer> ~useless
May 12 21:06:52 * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :(
May 12 21:06:54 <DocScrutinizer> ~die
May 12 21:06:54 * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.
May 12 21:07:00 <MohammadAG> ~fix infobot
May 12 21:07:14 <hawai`i> Actually
May 12 21:07:26 <hawai`i> They are optified on-the-fly
May 12 21:07:28 <BCMM> so he hasn't tried to remove stuff that is already in maemo like GTK+?
May 12 21:07:31 <hawai`i> but it's a weak optification, to be honest.
May 12 21:07:55 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: for sure not
May 12 21:08:17 <BCMM> hawai`i: what does "optified on-the-fly" mean? every single file symlinked?
May 12 21:08:36 <MohammadAG> maemo-optify-deb
May 12 21:08:37 <BCMM> perhaps i am tired and should stop asking silly questions
May 12 21:08:49 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
May 12 21:09:11 <DocScrutinizer> maybe I should go out get me a beer
May 12 21:09:20 <BCMM> or perhaps i should actually work out how debian works first
May 12 21:09:27 * satmd pours some of his beer into the dsl cable
May 12 21:09:32 <satmd> it's all yours, doc
May 12 21:09:37 <BCMM> (or just try and get a gentoo chroot :-p)
May 12 21:09:41 <DocScrutinizer> yummy
May 12 21:09:57 <DocScrutinizer> native gentoo ftw :-P
May 12 21:10:10 <johnsq> DocScrutinizer: works fine
May 12 21:10:13 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: there is native gentoo on the n900?
May 12 21:10:22 <hawai`i> There is chroot Gentoo, as regular.
May 12 21:10:31 <DocScrutinizer> "please call me again the next week, I'm just updating"
May 12 21:11:01 <trumee> How do i change mobile number in My Information in contacts?
May 12 21:11:03 <DocScrutinizer> "actually make that next month"
May 12 21:11:08 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: distcc :)
May 12 21:11:13 <trumee> it is an uneditable field
May 12 21:11:26 <BCMM> well, in terms of it actually being a phone, the phone app is closed, right?
May 12 21:11:43 <trumee> dont know where the phone populated that number from.
May 12 21:11:51 <johnsq> DocScrutinizer: its not so pad only 48hours to compile
May 12 21:11:52 <DocScrutinizer> prolly from SIM
May 12 21:11:53 <BCMM> trumee: buy a new SIM card?
May 12 21:11:58 <johnsq> s/pad/bad
May 12 21:12:11 <DocScrutinizer> johnsq: you did, on N900? XP
May 12 21:12:16 <trumee> i looked into skype/gtalk profile. cant find there
May 12 21:12:31 <johnsq> DocScrutinizer: no on the slowly n8x0 and archos 5it.
May 12 21:12:37 <trumee> BCMM: what do u mean?
May 12 21:12:50 <DocScrutinizer> johnsq: amazing :-D
May 12 21:13:00 <trumee> BCMM: i didn't buy a new sim card.
May 12 21:13:09 <BCMM> trumee: well, your SIM card has a number, right?
May 12 21:13:23 <BCMM> trumee: which can be used to telephone you, right?
May 12 21:13:28 <johnsq> DocScrutinizer: i'm out of luck with crossdev and crosscompiler.
May 12 21:13:32 <trumee> BCMM: yes, but that doesnt match my phone number
May 12 21:13:41 <BCMM> trumee: eh?
May 12 21:13:56 <BCMM> trumee: oh, you mean the one in "my information" is wrong?
May 12 21:14:04 <trumee> BCMM: yes
May 12 21:14:14 <BCMM> trumee: are you sure?
May 12 21:14:17 <trumee> BCMM: yup
May 12 21:14:22 <BCMM> trumee: you should ring it and see what happens
May 12 21:14:30 <BCMM> it probably belongs to another you in a parrallel dimension
May 12 21:14:50 <DocScrutinizer51> it's actually from SIM
May 12 21:15:00 <BCMM> on mine it is correct, and it can only have got it from the sim card / network
May 12 21:15:01 <wazd> ~seen vdvsx
May 12 21:15:04 <trumee> BCMM: my number is 079xx and that number is 0753xx
May 12 21:15:05 <infobot> vdvsx <~Valerio@Maemo/community/contributor/VDVsx> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 7h 30m 36s ago, saying: 'fine here :D'.
May 12 21:15:25 <BCMM> trumee: have you recently moved network or change your number or something?
May 12 21:15:29 <DocScrutinizer51> (my sim has a bogus 2nd one 0000000 that's also shown)
May 12 21:15:48 <trumee> BCMM: yes i had moved networks
May 12 21:16:07 <BCMM> trumee: did you have your number moved?
May 12 21:16:14 <trumee> BCMM: guess that was the original number of the sim.
May 12 21:16:34 <trumee> BCMM: yes, i had the number ported.
May 12 21:16:48 <BCMM> trumee: how recently/
May 12 21:16:57 <trumee> BCMM: 2yrs ago
May 12 21:17:01 <BCMM> oh
May 12 21:17:17 <BCMM> i had my number moved but it comes up fine in my information
May 12 21:17:42 <trumee> BCMM: maybe the info is never updated in the sim, only on the carriers server.
May 12 21:17:52 <DocScrutinizer> anyway a nice bugreport
May 12 21:17:53 <BCMM> i have no idea how the system works, tbh
May 12 21:18:23 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: exactly
May 12 21:18:28 <DocScrutinizer> how should it
May 12 21:18:40 <BCMM> my sim had a different number for several days between starting to work and my number getting moved
May 12 21:18:52 <DocScrutinizer> that's JFYI data in the SIM
May 12 21:19:02 <BCMM> but the number is correct now
May 12 21:19:27 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: how did it work for BCMM then?
May 12 21:19:55 <DocScrutinizer> GSM is a strange system, with a lot of redundant data pathes
May 12 21:20:21 <DocScrutinizer> or short: I dunno :-P
May 12 21:20:23 <trumee> i am going to insert another sim to check if it changes
May 12 21:21:16 <DocScrutinizer> e.g for carrier name showing up in top bar there's 3 potetial sources
May 12 21:21:47 <trumee> i called that number, carrier returned 'number not recognised'
May 12 21:21:54 <DocScrutinizer> at least 3
May 12 21:21:59 <ptl> ~seen qole
May 12 21:22:01 <infobot> qole <~qole@Maemo/community/council/qole> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 63d 4h 45m 31s ago, saying: 'Stskeeps, oh that's some great news!'.
May 12 21:22:19 <hawai`i> Go get a new SIM
May 12 21:22:51 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: probably some carriers implement a way to signal the actually assigned number back to the mobile
May 12 21:23:40 <DocScrutinizer> just like some carriers transmit correct time of day, and some don't
May 12 21:24:07 <iPeter-> I dont know should i ask this here but anyway.. is it possible to put opera load pages as normally on PC, annyoing to get example mobile youtube -.-
May 12 21:24:52 <BCMM> iPeter-: does it have a way to change you user agent?
May 12 21:24:55 <DocScrutinizer> change browser ID
May 12 21:25:04 <DocScrutinizer> ask timeless_mbp
May 12 21:25:17 <MohammadAG> about:config, same as firefox
May 12 21:25:36 <DocScrutinizer> or ask MohammadAG :-D
May 12 21:25:45 <MohammadAG> lol
May 12 21:26:04 <iPeter-> MohammadAG: Thx
May 12 21:26:11 <MohammadAG> anytime
May 12 21:26:25 <MohammadAG> thinking about getting the nokia BH-214
May 12 21:27:24 <DocScrutinizer> err, the nice expensive one?
May 12 21:28:00 <MohammadAG> lol no
May 12 21:28:04 <iPeter-> MohammadAG: Could you tell what to do from about:config to get rid of that?
May 12 21:28:52 <MohammadAG> oh, opera, sec
May 12 21:29:03 <MohammadAG> thought you were talking about microB
May 12 21:29:44 <iPeter-> MohammadAG: Yeh, opera :)
May 12 21:30:46 <millenomi> (workin' in the background, lurkin': http://millenomi.posterous.com/presenting-labs-platform-core)
May 12 21:31:05 <MohammadAG> iPeter-, scroll down to useragent, it doesn't support flash so I don't see any point of using the full yt
May 12 21:31:33 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, you know you want one http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD800-Premier-Headphone/dp/B001OTZ8DA
May 12 21:31:49 <iPeter-> MohammadAG: Yeah, i just try out this browser. Umm im in User agent, what now?
May 12 21:32:04 <MohammadAG> change the useragent to what you want :)
May 12 21:32:20 <MohammadAG> Firefox/3.5.6 is a valid one, i think
May 12 21:33:10 <iPeter-> I changed user agent value to 0, still going to mobile youtube if im typing www.youtube.com
May 12 21:35:45 <iPeter-> Well nvm. Not going to use this as default browser, yet.
May 12 21:35:50 <MohammadAG> iPeter-, try 4
May 12 21:37:07 <iPeter-> MohammadAG: I changed it to 4, clicked save, and did shutdown browser and now its back to 1 ):
May 12 21:37:33 <MohammadAG> why did you shutdown
May 12 21:37:37 <MohammadAG> just hit save
May 12 21:37:50 <iPeter-> it said it may need reboot :o
May 12 21:38:07 <iPeter-> but, it seems it doesnt need.
May 12 21:38:12 <iPeter-> MohammadAG: Worked, thanks.
May 12 21:39:19 <MohammadAG> :)
May 12 21:39:32 <MohammadAG> iPeter-, the settings thing is a known issue
May 12 21:39:39 <MohammadAG> settings get saved here though
May 12 21:40:31 <iPeter-> but opera seems to be fast and is easier than microb on some things, i like of it. Few things need to be fixed to replace microb :)
May 12 21:42:10 * GAN900 wonders why Texrat got 5 thumbs for: http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2010/05/11/will-2011-be-make-or-break-for-nokia/
May 12 21:43:16 <SpeedEvil> He's a mutant?
May 12 21:43:18 <Ic3man> Hi.. trying out x-chat for the first time on my N900 :)
May 12 21:43:47 <SpeedEvil> :)
May 12 21:44:13 <Dima202> Hey Doc still alive?
May 12 21:44:20 <Dima202> 10 min left on my uppload
May 12 21:44:32 <Gilles__> hi here
May 12 21:44:46 <Dima202> Ic3man: how is xchat? I like irssi
May 12 21:45:07 <Gilles__> i'm trying to install nitdroid on an n800
May 12 21:45:14 <Ic3man> xchat is very user friendly i think...
May 12 21:45:17 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: lmao
May 12 21:45:19 <Gilles__> and i'm looking for help
May 12 21:45:22 <Dima202> irssi too for irc
May 12 21:46:29 <Dima202> Gilles__: I've found help.. in a bottle :)
May 12 21:47:12 * Dima202 pokes DocScrutinizer 
May 12 21:47:18 <Gilles__> i've followed what's written in nitdroid
May 12 21:47:28 <DocScrutinizer> HMM?
May 12 21:47:44 <MohammadAG> Hildon Mutant Manager?
May 12 21:47:51 * N900evil loves xchat.
May 12 21:48:03 <Ic3man> I must say that the N900 is by far the best mobile ive ever used... :)
May 12 21:48:07 * MohammadAG seconds that
May 12 21:48:10 * MohammadAG seconds that too
May 12 21:48:14 <ManoftheSea> I like it too.
May 12 21:48:15 <DocScrutinizer> Dima202: you summoned me?
May 12 21:48:17 <Dima202> Remind me of my Zaurus
May 12 21:48:22 <ManoftheSea> But then... I haven't had a new phone in 2.5 years.
May 12 21:48:35 <Dima202> :) hey DocScrutinizer almost done with what upload :)
May 12 21:48:40 <Dima202> 96.9%
May 12 21:48:47 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
May 12 21:49:11 <Ic3man> Any ubuntu users here?
May 12 21:49:13 <DocScrutinizer> please send URL to /query DocScrutinizer51
May 12 21:49:22 <MohammadAG> Ic3man, sadly
May 12 21:50:24 * DocScrutinizer ponders to finally get out, beer, and a few 100 random manpages offline, for leisure
May 12 21:51:16 <Gilles__> i'm not sure if it's working with rs mmc card
May 12 21:52:47 <DocScrutinizer> Dima202: you got qwerty kbd?
May 12 21:53:56 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, seems irssi isn't that great
May 12 21:54:21 <Dima202> DocScrutinizer: why not?
May 12 21:54:24 <Dima202> Works great for me
May 12 21:54:42 <Dima202> got used to pg up and pg dwn for scrolling
May 12 21:54:48 <Dima202> everything else is fine
May 12 21:55:26 <Dima202> DocScrutinizer: got my query?
May 12 21:56:14 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
May 12 21:57:16 <DocScrutinizer51> xchat is fine since I got shift-up/down (only available on qwerty)
May 12 21:57:20 <tybollt> hmm
May 12 21:57:45 <Dima202> can you screen xchat?
May 12 21:57:48 <tybollt> how do I move copy entries from my ovi calendar to my ovi calendar 1.6 beta?
May 12 21:57:52 <DocScrutinizer51> irssi seems to fail for you as you didn't answer
May 12 21:58:27 <DocScrutinizer51> Dima202: no screen for xchat - it's a gui app
May 12 21:58:36 <Dima202> my point :p
May 12 21:58:44 <DocScrutinizer51> bah
May 12 21:59:11 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: you can use quassel multi-headed
May 12 21:59:11 <DocScrutinizer51> why would you want to use screen anywway?
May 12 21:59:21 <DocScrutinizer51> exactly
May 12 21:59:27 <DocScrutinizer51> any bouncer
May 12 21:59:37 <MohammadAG> cool, I can slide my N900 open using the display now
May 12 21:59:44 <MohammadAG> kinda like a shotgun :P
May 12 21:59:56 <DocScrutinizer51> errr wut?
May 12 22:00:12 <Dima202> i usually tunnel into my dedcated box and screen irssi through there
May 12 22:00:15 <MohammadAG> slider's looser than before
May 12 22:00:25 <DocScrutinizer51> eeew
May 12 22:00:34 <an0therb0x> is there a program to send certain numbers directly to voice mail  for the n900
May 12 22:00:44 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: you really got a lemon
May 12 22:00:51 <MohammadAG> Call forwarding I think
May 12 22:01:07 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, nope, don't they all get like this sooner or later?
May 12 22:01:25 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm dunno
May 12 22:01:40 <an0therb0x> MohammadAG: so i can send certain contacts directly to voice message ?
May 12 22:02:00 <MohammadAG> think so
May 12 22:02:03 <MohammadAG> never used it
May 12 22:02:06 <DocScrutinizer51> if you dmesg doesnt explode of 'slider now open' 'slider now closed'
May 12 22:02:13 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, tehkseven/join duct taped it
May 12 22:02:29 <frals> anyone figured out a way to spoof an incoming call?
May 12 22:02:39 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, it's not that loose lol!
May 12 22:02:45 <frals> i dont feel like calling myself everytime i need to test this script :[
May 12 22:02:48 <tybollt> frals: ?
May 12 22:02:50 <MohammadAG> frals, make a skype account and call yourself?
May 12 22:02:53 <MohammadAG> oh nvm
May 12 22:03:02 <frals> MohammadAG: skype goes over telepathy :(
May 12 22:03:06 <DocScrutinizer51> frals: hard
May 12 22:03:20 <MohammadAG> yeah, the N900 crashes when i do that
May 12 22:03:21 <MohammadAG> xD
May 12 22:03:23 <Dima202> Does video skype work on the 1.2 thats out in hk right now
May 12 22:03:47 <MohammadAG> video calls are supported in 1.2, qole confirmed it
May 12 22:04:31 <SpeedEvil> frals: Put up little cards in phone boxes nearby
May 12 22:04:39 <Dima202> same guy who condemned flash 10.1
May 12 22:05:11 <frals> SpeedEvil: :D
May 12 22:05:26 <frals> MohammadAG: you should probably clarify its skype video and not 3g video calls ;)
May 12 22:05:47 <MohammadAG> skype and gtalk video calls then
May 12 22:06:12 <MohammadAG> Dima202, that "guy" made easy debian, and is a respected member, I doubt the 10.1 thing was a lie
May 12 22:06:25 <rektide> which guy?
May 12 22:06:53 <Dima202> qole
May 12 22:06:56 <DocScrutinizer51> Dima202: dl isn't lightning fast either
May 12 22:07:03 <Dima202> wow, he made easy debian?
May 12 22:07:09 <Arkenoi> Do SIP video calls work as well?
May 12 22:07:20 <Dima202> DocScrutinizer51: it better be, 100 megabit connection
May 12 22:07:27 <pwnguin> doesn't that just make it more likely he'd condemb flash on philosophical grounds?
May 12 22:07:31 <DocScrutinizer51> wonder if that's due to internets or N900 write bandwidth to uSD
May 12 22:07:34 <Dima202> DocScrutinizer51: are you sure its not on your end?
May 12 22:07:56 <MohammadAG> the N900 downloads stuff slowly
May 12 22:08:05 <DocScrutinizer51> Dima202: would you mind to rened the URL to DocScrutinizer ?
May 12 22:08:09 <woglinde> jo
May 12 22:08:18 <DocScrutinizer51> woglinde: joo
May 12 22:10:56 <MohammadAG> battery low
May 12 22:12:37 <DocScrutinizer> Dima202: ok, avrged at 220KiB/s. Doesn't feel much faster than on N900 though :-P
May 12 22:12:51 <user_> i can barely read anything in xchat
May 12 22:13:09 <Dima202> Hmm, I am maxing my d/l at 500kb/s
May 12 22:13:19 <SpeedEvil> Dima202: over 3g?
May 12 22:13:20 <DocScrutinizer> user_: maybe adjust fontsize then?
May 12 22:13:27 <Dima202> 1.0MB/s
May 12 22:13:48 <Dima202> 500KB/sec
May 12 22:13:55 <Dima202> must be you DocScrutinizer
May 12 22:14:02 <Dima202> SpeedEvil: lol nah over cable
May 12 22:14:04 <DocScrutinizer> I think that's a 1Mbit DSL here
May 12 22:14:26 <SpeedEvil> user_: http://qkwv.com/xchat.png
May 12 22:14:37 <SpeedEvil> user_: Is it a colour problem?
May 12 22:15:51 <frals> so how do i translate this to a dbus-send command: signal sender=:1.17 -> dest=(null destination) serial=77049 path=/com/nokia/csd/call; interface=com.nokia.csd.Call; member=Coming  object path "/com/nokia/csd/call/1" string "346893489"
May 12 22:16:07 * SpeedEvil wonders that true
May 12 22:16:15 <SpeedEvil> too
May 12 22:16:28 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: hmm, 16lines here instead of your 14, but otherwise rather identical
May 12 22:16:56 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: well - if you hide the top...
May 12 22:17:18 <DocScrutinizer> nah, smallet PT
May 12 22:17:22 <DocScrutinizer> smaller
May 12 22:17:34 <SpeedEvil> ah
May 12 22:17:47 <SpeedEvil> I sometimes use it outside in direct sun with the backlihgt down
May 12 22:17:53 <DocScrutinizer> nokia sans 12
May 12 22:17:55 <SpeedEvil> In this case, the resolution is hurt
May 12 22:18:43 <Dima202> DocScrutinizer: maybe someone is tapping your wirless?
May 12 22:19:35 <DocScrutinizer> btw, on related topic: I use the tabs instead of treeview for the chanlist - and I found it's impossible to read red on gray in bright sunlight
May 12 22:20:11 <Dima202> k, on related topic, did you test the video to tv out issue?
May 12 22:21:02 * Dima202 pokes DocScrutinizer
May 12 22:21:03 <DocScrutinizer> Dima202: still downloading Opening the video streaming in mediaplayer gave me black screen even on N900
May 12 22:21:31 <DocScrutinizer> 22%
May 12 22:21:33 <Dima202> you tried to steam a divx file?
May 12 22:21:52 <BCMM> talking of video, anyone else had videos that won't play, but work fine after a reboot?
May 12 22:22:05 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: you can wedge the infrastructure
May 12 22:22:07 <BCMM> i've had this several times with stuff made with tablet-encode
May 12 22:22:09 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: ?
May 12 22:22:10 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: It crashes the DSP
May 12 22:22:10 <DocScrutinizer> so what? N900 on opening the link asked me "store or play?"
May 12 22:22:13 <SpeedEvil> or something
May 12 22:22:23 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: what does "wedge teh infrastructure" mean?
May 12 22:22:27 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: and won't come back without rebooting
May 12 22:22:33 <BCMM> oh, the DSP can get in a confused state, i see
May 12 22:22:37 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: Some aspect of the video chain crashes
May 12 22:22:49 <BCMM> ah, that must be what happens when you feed it stuff straight of of get_iplayer
May 12 22:23:02 <BCMM> h264, but not the sort of h264 it wants...
May 12 22:23:07 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: nota bene after DSP crashed it won't play *any* video until reboot
May 12 22:23:28 <BCMM> yeah, that is consistent with what i've seen
May 12 22:23:46 <BCMM> it sounds like i can repeatably crash the DSP by trying to play the output of get_iplayer
May 12 22:23:49 <BCMM> interesting...
May 12 22:24:24 <BCMM> i've encountered another oddity with stuff from tablet-encode
May 12 22:24:40 <BCMM> fwiw, this one was with pretty poor-quality video to start with
May 12 22:24:45 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: Oh - random interesting factoid.
May 12 22:25:00 * DocScrutinizer wonders if a kill -9 to the right process might do, instead of boot
May 12 22:25:04 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: I am part of a n900 survey that is being conducted by nokia
May 12 22:25:27 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: One of the questions was 'how much would you like to be able to easily play web-tv /iplayer)
May 12 22:25:34 <BCMM> anyway the tablet-encode output played back at a decent speed on the desktop, but was jerky (like maybe 5fps) on the n900
May 12 22:26:11 <BCMM> anyone else had that? any tablet-encode/mencoder flags that help?
May 12 22:30:58 * SpeedEvil wishes that the bbc would get with the damn program, and just podcast _everything_.
May 12 22:40:50 <ohwhyme> Anyone know why my phone log keeps getting cleared after a little
May 12 22:41:15 <DocScrutinizer> PP:hald-runer  PID:821 hald-addon-usb-cable: listening on /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/usb1/../mode
May 12 22:41:31 <DocScrutinizer> :-O
May 12 22:44:16 * DocScrutinizer really wishes someone @ Nokia would write a little summary on how that friggin USB crap is supposed to work (or has been supposed to, before they ditched hostmode)
May 12 22:46:30 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: apparently they think people won't let them buy programs unless they drm everything
May 12 22:46:38 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: (except for iphone obviously)
May 12 22:46:48 <ajf_> rename guysoft22 guy
May 12 22:46:48 <ajf_> save
May 12 22:46:51 <BCMM> (oh, and flash cause it's fiddly)
May 12 22:46:54 <SpeedEvil> And of course people are pushing for ipad.
May 12 22:47:07 <guysoft22> ajf_, wha?
May 12 22:47:37 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: and of course they forgot the bit were they are the bleedin' bbc and actually could just threaten to take their business elsewhere
May 12 22:47:47 <BCMM> or provide non-stupid copies of their own stuff
May 12 22:47:59 <BCMM> basically, i smell lobbying
May 12 22:48:08 <BCMM> still, get_iplayer is pretty brilliant
May 12 22:48:21 <BCMM> the perfect interface
May 12 22:48:28 <BCMM> well, it was until they dropped the iphone versions for some reason
May 12 22:54:33 <ohwhyme> u guys know where the call log is located?
May 12 22:55:51 <frals> ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db or el-v1.db afaik
May 12 22:56:05 * SpeedEvil sighs.
May 12 22:56:30 <SpeedEvil> I was playing with seeing if I could get meego to boot as a rescue disk, to avoid flashing.
May 12 22:56:41 <SpeedEvil> So put it on the SD in the phone.
May 12 22:56:49 <SpeedEvil> That had had my backups on.
May 12 22:56:54 <woglinde> lol
May 12 22:57:02 * SpeedEvil is doing a lot of scrolling and clicking right now.
May 12 22:57:11 <woglinde> good nite
May 12 22:59:27 <ajf_> rename njsf_1 n
May 12 22:59:27 <ajf_> save
May 12 22:59:31 <SpeedEvil> At least 1.2 keeps its place in the app-list, so I don't need to scroll
May 12 22:59:36 <SpeedEvil> err - 1.2.1
May 12 22:59:39 <SpeedEvil> err - 1.1.1
May 12 22:59:41 * SpeedEvil sighs.
May 12 23:10:21 <LinuxCode> does anyone know if maemo 5 support smartcards readers using ccid ?
May 12 23:10:40 <LinuxCode> I see gnugpg2 2.0.15 on the site
May 12 23:10:53 <LinuxCode> which is one of the two things I would need
May 12 23:10:57 <SpeedEvil> ccid?
May 12 23:11:15 <LinuxCode> yeah
May 12 23:11:16 <SpeedEvil> how would these be connected?
May 12 23:11:21 <LinuxCode> its like a smartcard standard
May 12 23:11:24 <LinuxCode> usb
May 12 23:11:35 <SpeedEvil> there is no working USB hostmode
May 12 23:11:38 <SpeedEvil> ~USB
May 12 23:11:38 <infobot> rumour has it, usb is Unusable Serial Bus.  Useless Serial Bus.  Ugly Stupid Bus
May 12 23:11:51 <LinuxCode> ohhh
May 12 23:11:53 <LinuxCode> ;-|
May 12 23:12:07 <LinuxCode> meh
May 12 23:12:10 <SpeedEvil> USB is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host
May 12 23:12:14 <SpeedEvil> ~USB
May 12 23:12:14 <infobot> well, usb is Unusable Serial Bus.  Useless Serial Bus.  Ugly Stupid Bus
May 12 23:12:19 <SpeedEvil> See that
May 12 23:12:28 <SpeedEvil> infobot: USB is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host
May 12 23:12:28 <infobot> ...but usb is already something else...
May 12 23:13:14 <LinuxCode> sad ;-|
May 12 23:13:16 <SpeedEvil> infobot: USBHOST is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host
May 12 23:13:16 <infobot> SpeedEvil: okay
May 12 23:13:21 <LinuxCode> that would have been really cool
May 12 23:13:22 <SpeedEvil> ~USBHOST
May 12 23:13:23 <infobot> usbhost is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host
May 12 23:13:37 <SpeedEvil> It's probably coming. It's not there yet though.
May 12 23:18:24 * lcuk ensures DocScrutinizer is stocked up with bacon and coffee to his taste
May 12 23:19:01 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, im gonna see whether theres any more info we can obtain for you
May 12 23:20:03 <DocScrutinizer51> errm... missing context
May 12 23:22:02 <lcuk> your rant earlier
May 12 23:23:31 <frals> lcuk and the bacon is going to do their thing and see what comes out
May 12 23:23:56 <lcuk> heh
May 12 23:24:57 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: fine
May 12 23:25:02 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
May 12 23:30:18 <SpeedEvil> rant?
May 12 23:36:38 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
May 12 23:37:16 <LinuxCode> SpeedEvil, thanks again for earlier
May 12 23:37:25 <ajf_> guysoft22: sorry about that.. was my bitlbee_rename script for facebook going crazy for some bizarre reason
May 12 23:37:32 <LinuxCode> hi lcuk , good night lcuk
May 12 23:38:02 <Myrtti> meh.
May 12 23:41:20 <SpeedEvil> np
May 12 23:44:04 <ajf_> rename kkb110 purple
May 12 23:44:04 <ajf_> save
May 12 23:44:11 <Myrtti> fail
May 12 23:45:23 <SpeedEvil> rename ajf_ noob
May 12 23:47:15 <Dima202> Hey Doc, so anything interesting yet?
May 12 23:47:23 <Termana> good morning
May 12 23:47:39 <Dima202> good morning Termana at 7,47 pm but okay ;)
May 12 23:48:02 <Termana> Dima202, http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
May 12 23:48:24 <Termana> :P That link is golden, thanks to however showed it to me :P
May 12 23:48:36 <Dima202> haha nice
May 12 23:48:37 <Termana> Dima202, also - its 9:18am here, so very much morning :)
May 12 23:48:58 <Dima202> "Resistance is futile." <- rofl
May 12 23:49:22 <Myrtti> *burp*
May 12 23:50:26 <DocScrutinizer> lo Myrtti
May 12 23:50:41 <Dima202> DocScrutinizer: did that download finish yetA?
May 12 23:50:51 <DocScrutinizer> prolly
May 12 23:50:57 <ajf_> rename b0unc3 b0unc3
May 12 23:50:57 <ajf_> save
May 12 23:50:58 <Dima202> Can you check please
May 12 23:51:10 <DocScrutinizer> in a short while
May 12 23:52:19 <Dima202> DocScrutinizer: can you give "in a short while" a time frame?
May 12 23:53:40 <DocScrutinizer> ajf_: send me a query if you have anything better to say than rename x y save
May 12 23:55:04 * DocScrutinizer wonders if that's a bot
May 12 23:55:35 <DocScrutinizer> Dima202: next 60min
May 12 23:55:36 <Myrtti> DocScrutinizer: look at the backlog at 37 past this hour
May 12 23:55:53 <Dima202> oh my
May 12 23:56:02 <Dima202> ok, thanks I'll be here
May 12 23:56:20 <DocScrutinizer> Myrtti: oh, thanks
May 12 23:56:56 <Myrtti> it's not a bot, but he still needs to fix his script
May 12 23:58:34 <DocScrutinizer> still [Whois] ajf_ ist 1000@eth0.org.uk (Unknown)
May 12 23:58:53 <DocScrutinizer> looks strange as well
May 12 23:59:17 <DocScrutinizer> anyway
May 12 23:59:20 <DocScrutinizer> bbl
May 13 00:00:11 <Pekuja_> I'm having a problem trying to install the SDK
May 13 00:00:26 <Pekuja_> it seems like sudo is failing
May 13 00:00:32 <Pekuja_> "mmap: Operation not permitted"
May 13 00:00:38 <Pekuja_> this is on Ubuntu 10.04 inside Virtualbox
May 13 00:01:19 <wazd> hmmm, "Design by Community" is an interesting thing :)
May 13 00:01:35 <Pekuja_> oh, hmm
May 13 00:01:46 <Pekuja_> should had taken a look at the installation guide. the solution is right there
May 13 00:02:12 <wazd> http://conversations.nokia.com/design-by-community/ <- they are now making design concepts according to the chosen specs
May 13 00:24:31 <Dima202> DocScrutinizer: very soon?
May 13 00:27:07 <DocScrutinizer> copying, remaining time 25min
May 13 00:28:26 <Macer> HAHAHAH
May 13 00:28:30 <Macer> avatar the cartoon is great
May 13 00:28:50 <Macer> omg the earth bending girl cracks me up
May 13 00:34:39 <Funnyfacemob> I just can't explain how much more I like my N900 than my old htc tytn II.. that device was the dumbest thing I ever spent my money on :>
May 13 00:38:36 <luke-jr> Funnyfacemob: the opposite for me
May 13 00:38:53 <acidjazz> yoyoyo
May 13 00:38:59 <acidjazz> any1 in here get android on their mameo yet?
May 13 00:38:59 <luke-jr> I liked my C760 more than my N810, which was the dumbest thing I ever spent my money on :p
May 13 00:39:01 <acidjazz> maemo*
May 13 00:39:06 <luke-jr> acidjazz: that's a contradiction
May 13 00:39:15 <acidjazz> on their n900
May 13 00:39:16 <acidjazz> sorry
May 13 00:39:24 <luke-jr> also, Android sucks
May 13 00:39:32 <luke-jr> #NITdroid for Android fanboys
May 13 00:40:32 <acidjazz> lol its the best phone os next to maemo
May 13 00:42:58 <luke-jr> acidjazz: they both suck
May 13 00:43:03 <luke-jr> and N900 isn't a phone
May 13 00:43:50 <ptl> and windows isn't an OS
May 13 00:44:04 <acidjazz> this isnt irc
May 13 00:44:09 <luke-jr> fail
May 13 00:56:18 <DocScrutinizer> Dima202: ok, so when do you say the AV signal turns black?
May 13 00:56:49 <Funnyfacemob> yeah the N900 is a phone whether you want to accept it as one or not :P
May 13 00:58:24 <luke-jr> Funnyfacemob: nope
May 13 01:00:33 <Funnyfacemob> anyway what is wrong with the N900?
May 13 01:01:46 <luke-jr> it's junk :P
May 13 01:01:48 <luke-jr> too small
May 13 01:01:51 <Funnyfacemob> I can only think of one thing I'd like to add to it, and that's 2 hardware buttons on the front panel, which can be used without the keyboard
May 13 01:01:51 <luke-jr> too closed
May 13 01:01:53 <luke-jr> etc
May 13 01:02:41 <Funnyfacemob> the size makes it fit well in your pocket as a phone, while still having a decent portable OS
May 13 01:03:05 <luke-jr> well I don't want a phone
May 13 01:03:20 <luke-jr> N8x0 fit in my pocket fine
May 13 01:03:22 <luke-jr> as did C760
May 13 01:03:32 <luke-jr> without the insane small screen
May 13 01:03:40 <Funnyfacemob> yeah but it's not junk, being in the category it is :P
May 13 01:03:52 <luke-jr> Nokia doesn't put it in the phone category last I checked
May 13 01:03:58 <luke-jr> it's in the tablet category
May 13 01:04:03 <luke-jr> or handheld category
May 13 01:04:11 <Funnyfacemob> it's a bit like saying "my laptop sucks as a phone because it's too large to fit in my pocket"
May 13 01:04:26 <luke-jr> except N900 isn't supposed to be a phone
May 13 01:04:48 <luke-jr> most NITs don't even have a cell modem
May 13 01:05:40 <Funnyfacemob> well for the average "I just want a good phone" type of people they'd be disappointed and find it hard to navigate simply because the phone stuff is too hidden away
May 13 01:06:13 <luke-jr> I'm still waiting for a decent successor to C760
May 13 01:07:00 <DocScrutinizer> Dima202: video from AV 'works' (well it's the usual crap with only 65535 colors making faces look like painted with a big brush, it's jumpy and red is way too saturated)
May 13 01:07:40 <DocScrutinizer> but it's not black after maybe 10 minutes now
May 13 01:08:30 <DocScrutinizer> Dima202: so I'll finish watching that movie now
May 13 01:08:30 <Funnyfacemob> also regarding the "too closed" part, I haven't looked too much into it, but I guess if you stripped maemo down to just the gpl licensed stuff, you'd still have a decent OS
May 13 01:08:48 <Funnyfacemob> installing open source stuff to replace the junk
May 13 01:08:54 <luke-jr> Funnyfacemob: if you stripped it down to only the Free parts, you wouldn't have anything that worked period
May 13 01:08:59 <Funnyfacemob> no idea about the drivers
May 13 01:09:05 <DocScrutinizer> Dima202: maybe your TV has problem with the 2.25:1 cinemascope format?
May 13 01:09:08 <luke-jr> the closed junk is not replacable unless Nokia releases specs
May 13 01:09:59 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: uhuh
May 13 01:11:08 <budfive> anybody using an invisibleshield for an n900?
May 13 01:11:42 <Funnyfacemob> I wish I had because I made a small scratch the other week
May 13 01:12:21 <budfive> :)
May 13 01:12:25 <Funnyfacemob> nothing major, can't see it unless I look for it, but it's annoying to know that it is there :(
May 13 01:12:52 <budfive> well, if anybody installed one, is there any trick to preventing liquid from entering the speaker?
May 13 01:14:03 <Funnyfacemob> doesn't it just cling to the screen the same way as the original screen protector did?
May 13 01:19:49 <budfive> there's a liquid spray involved in the installations
May 13 01:22:51 <Funnyfacemob> hmm no idea. maybe don't spray too much on? :P
May 13 01:23:21 <Funnyfacemob> and hold it so any excess liquid doesn't run into the spaker
May 13 01:46:28 <LiraNuna> all my application catalogs are gone
May 13 01:46:46 <Scifi_> Hi, Is there a way to know how many times an app is downloaded/installed from a repository?
May 13 01:47:36 <SpeedEvil> Scifi_: yes
May 13 01:47:54 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/download-stats/index.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5&repo=extras
May 13 01:48:32 <SpeedEvil> frals cheats though by pushing a new update every 8 or 9 seconds.
May 13 01:49:01 <crashanddie> GAN900: fail, TF2 not available on mac yet
May 13 01:49:11 <Scifi_> SpeedEvil: Thats what I need. Thank you :)
May 13 01:50:07 <SpeedEvil> To get a number for an app, you need to correlate the above graph with the release versions, and come up with a function that decomposes the superposition of all of the versions downloads into one number of users.
May 13 01:50:10 <SpeedEvil> this is tricky
May 13 01:52:11 <Funnyfacemob> are there any reliable estimates of how many N900 units nokia has sold?
May 13 01:53:33 <Scifi_> I am not looking at processing that data automatically. Just for reference.
May 13 01:54:04 <LiraNuna> all my application catalogs are gone, what are the default ones?
May 13 01:55:01 <SpeedEvil> http://repository.maemo.org/
May 13 01:55:12 <SpeedEvil> hmm
May 13 01:56:26 <LiraNuna> I did the update
May 13 01:56:37 <LiraNuna> Chromium and LED Pattern editor
May 13 01:56:43 <LiraNuna> and the update failed because of slow network
May 13 01:56:55 <LiraNuna> after I tried to update again, all the catalogs are gone
May 13 01:57:12 <SpeedEvil> odd
May 13 01:57:19 <SpeedEvil> First I would try a reboot.
May 13 01:57:37 <SpeedEvil> does 'application catalogs' show null?
May 13 01:57:52 <LiraNuna> nope, empty
May 13 01:58:00 <LiraNuna> only the [NEW] button is there
May 13 01:58:04 <LiraNuna> let me try and reboot
May 13 01:58:27 <LiraNuna> I didn't reboot the phone in months
May 13 02:00:24 <Funnyfacemob> really? mine reboots by itself :p
May 13 02:04:13 <LiraNuna> that worked, weird
May 13 02:04:15 <LiraNuna> thanks SpeedEvil
May 13 02:07:21 <SpeedEvil> odd
May 13 02:07:37 <asj> even
May 13 02:07:42 <SpeedEvil> I blame solar flares.
May 13 02:12:12 <LiraNuna> wow, Opera is impressive
May 13 02:13:14 <SpeedEvil> is it not in repo?
May 13 02:13:38 <pexi-> how impressive?
May 13 02:13:43 <LiraNuna> pexi-, worth installing
May 13 02:13:50 <LiraNuna> faster than microB
May 13 02:14:11 <pexi-> hmm.. how about js-engine?
May 13 02:14:15 <LiraNuna> http://maemo-freak.com/index.php/downloads/appsdown/1409-unofficial-return-of-opera-mobile-to-maemo-devices-after-more-than-a-3-years-of-absence
May 13 02:14:57 <SpeedEvil> ah
May 13 02:15:25 <LiraNuna> very impressive - worth installing
May 13 02:15:32 <LiraNuna> checking if it supports flash now
May 13 02:16:19 <pexi-> LiraNuna, does it have any device api support like geolocation (gps) or orientation?
May 13 02:16:29 <LiraNuna> orientation - YES
May 13 02:16:34 <LiraNuna> very well too
May 13 02:16:35 <pigeon> no flash yet i thought
May 13 02:16:37 <LiraNuna> didn't check geolocation
May 13 02:16:42 <SpeedEvil> 'no flash or other plugins'
May 13 02:17:04 <LiraNuna> ah, yeah
May 13 02:17:08 <LiraNuna> youtube isn't working
May 13 02:17:10 <pexi-> kernel driver for rotation, I see
May 13 02:17:18 <LiraNuna> let's check geolocation
May 13 02:18:34 <LiraNuna> hahaha
May 13 02:18:38 <LiraNuna> google maps mobile says
May 13 02:18:45 <LiraNuna> "Your current location is unavailable in Safari"
May 13 02:18:58 <dougt> LiraNuna: try:  http://people.mozilla.org/~dougt/demos/geo.html
May 13 02:19:29 <pigeon> do you know how to zoom in/out in opera?
May 13 02:19:55 <LiraNuna> pigeon, click and hold
May 13 02:20:06 <LiraNuna> as in
May 13 02:20:07 <LiraNuna> long tap
May 13 02:20:43 <pigeon> thanks, double tap also works
May 13 02:20:47 <LiraNuna> double tap works as well
May 13 02:20:48 <LiraNuna> hehe
May 13 02:20:57 <LiraNuna> Opera is very impressive
May 13 02:21:00 * LiraNuna runs sun spider
May 13 02:22:06 <SpeedEvil> No flash.
May 13 02:22:11 <SpeedEvil> DEALBRAKER.
May 13 02:22:44 <pigeon> heh
May 13 02:23:02 <pigeon> the default browser is the only one that can do flash at the moment i thought
May 13 02:23:02 <ds3> would you like NAND or NOR? ;)
May 13 02:23:15 <SpeedEvil> MLC
May 13 02:23:26 <SpeedEvil> pigeon: and fennec IIRC
May 13 02:23:31 <SpeedEvil> Or was that firefox
May 13 02:23:36 <pigeon> really?
May 13 02:23:46 <pigeon> i installed firefox, but still haven't used it.
May 13 02:23:53 <pigeon> also wondering about midori.
May 13 02:24:01 <LiraNuna> <SpeedEvil> DEALBRAKER.
May 13 02:24:05 <LiraNuna> dude it's alpha
May 13 02:24:08 <SpeedEvil> firefox is regrettably slow.
May 13 02:24:17 <LiraNuna> ^
May 13 02:24:19 <SpeedEvil> I know.
May 13 02:24:28 <LiraNuna> I'm impressed with it as an alpha
May 13 02:25:33 <Funnyfacemob> I used both iceweasel and some hmm "ephiphany"? browser with debian and I think they are both about as fast as microb even though they are not really optimized for this hardware
May 13 02:27:14 <LiraNuna> 25301ms +/- 6.4%
May 13 02:27:26 <pigeon> well my firefox doesn't have flash installed.
May 13 02:27:37 <Funnyfacemob> hmm I was going to come up with a point  to that but I forgot what I was going to say
May 13 02:29:17 <LiraNuna> flash 9 is annoyingly slow on N900
May 13 02:29:23 <LiraNuna> I hope 10.1 will speed things up
May 13 02:29:48 <Funnyfacemob> I hope HTML5 will speed things up
May 13 02:30:06 <Funnyfacemob> let's get rid of the shitty flash once and for all
May 13 02:30:12 <ds3> this is amazing what a difference locking to GSM/EGPRS makes on the battery life
May 13 02:30:28 <LiraNuna> yeah, 3G is a battery whore
May 13 02:30:31 <LiraNuna> even more than wifi
May 13 02:32:50 <SpeedEvil> Wifi uses lots of power only when not powersaving really.
May 13 02:33:08 <ds3> EGPRS/GSM seems to have increased my battery life 2-3x
May 13 02:33:19 <SpeedEvil> Idle with a decent powersaving router having it on and allowing ssh in adds maybe .1% battery drain per hour
May 13 02:33:26 <ds3> WiFi doesn't seem to impact battery life, AFAICT
May 13 02:33:42 <SpeedEvil> ds3: It does - it's not easily noticable though.
May 13 02:33:52 <ds3> I have mail checks every 30minutes along with IM in the background
May 13 02:34:00 <SpeedEvil> ds3: It's something like 150 hours live vs 130
May 13 02:34:08 <SpeedEvil> life
May 13 02:34:10 <Funnyfacemob> well I notice a difference with wifi
May 13 02:34:13 <ds3> SpreedEvil: *nod* it is down in the noise
May 13 02:34:27 <Funnyfacemob> no idea what power saving modes my AP supports though
May 13 02:34:40 <SpeedEvil> Funnyface: do you have your powersaving mode set to ma?
May 13 02:34:42 <SpeedEvil> max?
May 13 02:35:06 <Funnyfacemob> it's a WRT54GL that I haven't installed DDWRT on yet
May 13 02:35:25 <Funnyfacemob> on the N900 or AP?
May 13 02:35:27 <SpeedEvil> I have a wrt54g that I need to hook back up
May 13 02:35:30 <SpeedEvil> AP
May 13 02:35:35 <SpeedEvil> err
May 13 02:35:41 <SpeedEvil> the n900 has to have it set to max
May 13 02:35:51 <SpeedEvil> the AP has to support it too, or it won't work
May 13 02:36:11 <SpeedEvil> It's a low-level driver function as I understand it, not something ddwrt might help
May 13 02:36:29 <Funnyfacemob> can't remember.. I remember seeing the settings
May 13 02:37:46 <Dima202> DocScrutinizer: are you there?
May 13 02:37:59 <Dima202> Sorry i stepped out
May 13 02:38:03 <Funnyfacemob> actually I might have disabled it on the N900 because I was trying to get it working with a messed up adhoc network
May 13 02:38:19 <Funnyfacemob> where were those settings again?
May 13 02:39:15 <SpeedEvil> Funnyface: settings -> internet - > select the connect - and it's at the end IIRC
May 13 02:39:15 * Dima202 poke DocScrutinizer 
May 13 02:40:45 <Funnyfacemob> ah ok. well I don't have the network saved like that, I just bring up a list of broadcasting networks and connect :P
May 13 02:41:35 <Funnyfacemob> I will take a look at it when I get back home, atm I am at a place where I don't know the AP password if I get disconnected
May 13 02:42:01 <N900evil> nonpowersaving uses stupid power.
May 13 02:42:19 <N900evil> 1/6th bat per hour
May 13 02:42:34 <Funnyfacemob> hehe yes, adhoc showed me that
May 13 02:42:52 <Funnyfacemob> immediate improvement as soon as my WRT54GL arrived
May 13 02:46:05 <kantlivelong> ping MohammadAG hai
May 13 02:50:46 <kantlivelong> MohammadAG: if you get this can you ping me @ kant_mobile.. thx
May 13 02:58:55 <SpeedEvil> opera looks very interesting
May 13 02:59:04 <SpeedEvil> It is in some places lots faster than microb
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 13 02:59:56 2010