**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 18 02:59:57 2010
May 18 03:00:19 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: maybe because it's been ext2 before ?
May 18 03:00:26 <kpoman> resize2fs resizes those kind of filesystems, right ? the "debian chroot" thing is a pseudo partition in ext2 where you chroot, right ? :s
May 18 03:00:41 <cehteh> ah ok :)
May 18 03:00:54 <kpoman> any ideas
May 18 03:00:55 <cehteh> never checked how thats actually done
May 18 03:00:56 <kpoman> ?
May 18 03:01:07 <cehteh> you extended the file with dd first?
May 18 03:01:25 <cehteh> (and take care not to delete it ...)
May 18 03:01:27 <DocScrutinizer> I think it's impossible to resize a chroot environment
May 18 03:01:32 <kpoman> cehteh: no, just the resize2fs thing, which did it enlarge from less than 2G to 4G
May 18 03:01:38 <kpoman> then fsck.ext2 etc...
May 18 03:01:42 <cehteh> is the file biggier now?
May 18 03:01:46 <kpoman> then rebooted then retried
May 18 03:01:52 <kpoman> yes, the file is 4GB now
May 18 03:02:25 <cehteh> tried resizefs on the file or a loopback mount?
May 18 03:02:38 <kpoman> however sysfs                 1.2G  1.2G   30M  98% /sys
May 18 03:02:50 <kpoman> cehteh: on the file
May 18 03:03:09 <cehteh> the size of sys is absolutely irrelevant
May 18 03:03:10 <kpoman> cehteh: -rw-r--r--    1 user     root    4194304000 May 17 22:01 debian-squeeze.img.ext2
May 18 03:03:32 <kpoman> cehteh: how do one check the amount of free space then ?
May 18 03:03:34 <cehteh> make a loopback on it and try to resize that
May 18 03:03:51 <kpoman> cehteh: how do I do that ?
May 18 03:04:05 <DocScrutinizer> I didn't even think about size of /sys yet o,O
May 18 03:04:06 <cehteh> uhm forget it stay with it as it is :)
May 18 03:04:57 <cehteh> you stopped all services and mountpoints and whatever was accessing that file before trying?
May 18 03:05:12 <kpoman> cehteh: I am surprised this is not a faq ... I mean the base size is way too small, nowadays microsd is 8GB
May 18 03:05:14 <cehteh> otherwise you are skrewed anyways :)
May 18 03:05:14 <kpoman> or whatever
May 18 03:05:19 <kpoman> why that small size ?
May 18 03:05:20 * DocScrutinizer wanders off, screaming
May 18 03:05:50 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer:  .. :)
May 18 03:06:34 <cehteh> since i have ext3 everywhere i wanted to convert that image into a directory  .. but had no need yet
May 18 03:07:31 <kpoman> cehteh: so how does my chrooted environment calculate free space if /sys says that
May 18 03:08:20 <cehteh> sys what?
May 18 03:08:32 <kpoman> cehteh:
May 18 03:08:34 * cehteh considers following DocScrutinizer 
May 18 03:09:17 <kpoman> cehteh: http://pastebin.com/2GrsDPaG
May 18 03:10:51 <cehteh> and?
May 18 03:11:08 <kpoman> cehteh: and look at the free space ... I a gonna have problems
May 18 03:11:36 <cehteh> 8)
May 18 03:11:52 <kpoman> cehteh: help me :o
May 18 03:11:56 <kpoman> for god sake
May 18 03:11:57 <kpoman> :D
May 18 03:12:20 <cehteh> where does that /sys mount come from and why do you think thats in any way relevant?
May 18 03:12:36 <kpoman> I dont know, but why dont I even see / on my df thing ???
May 18 03:12:59 <cehteh> i dont know either .. i never looked inside that chroot
May 18 03:13:20 <kpoman> I just wanna have room there :( wtf
May 18 03:13:25 <cehteh> but i really recommend to setup a loop device with the image and inspect that
May 18 03:13:43 <cehteh> and before you do that you should be damn sure that *nothing* else accesses that image
May 18 03:13:47 <kpoman> loop is readonly ?
May 18 03:13:54 <kpoman> what about that casper thingie ?
May 18 03:13:58 <cehteh> loop is readwrite
May 18 03:14:12 <cehteh> when the file is big enough you can resizefs that
May 18 03:14:17 <kpoman> cehteh: see what I got now: E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.
May 18 03:14:32 <cehteh> and again if *anything else* accesses the file you are screwed
May 18 03:15:01 <cehteh> prolly you are already skrewed
May 18 03:15:12 <dagmar_n900> I seem to experience some problems on my n900. Just recently it started to give me all kinds of "Internal Error. Application 'X' closed." messages. Some widgets keep dissappearing when that happens while some 'safe' widgets remain. Any idea what could be causing this?
May 18 03:15:25 <kpoman> cehteh: why ? why resize2fs etc.. are not working as expected ... why
May 18 03:15:54 <kpoman> is there a kernel event that needs to be fired or whatever for chroot to see the file is bigger now ?
May 18 03:15:55 <kpoman> or what
May 18 03:15:55 <cehteh> http://adrinael.net/wrong9
May 18 03:16:10 <kpoman> what is this debian thing ...
May 18 03:16:52 <cehteh> kpoman: for sure not
May 18 03:17:43 * DocScrutinizer opens the door and shouts to cehteh "over here, hurry!"
May 18 03:17:46 <cehteh> dagmar_n900: how much uptime? .. got an accidentally reboot, damaged filesystem? ... could be either not enough memory or something serious
May 18 03:18:17 * cehteh will have a downtime in a few minutes .. called sleep :P
May 18 03:18:33 <dagmar_n900> cehteh: rootfs seems fine - around 39 MB free, no apparent signs of damaged filesystem, dmesg doesn't spit out any problems regarding that issue. System been rebooted quite a few times
May 18 03:19:30 <cehteh> no idea then .. except for some files may be corrupted silently or some other glitch, some service unavailable or something very leaky installed
May 18 03:19:33 <kpoman> cehteh: this guys says it should work: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=236876&postcount=221 however it doesnt
May 18 03:20:06 <cehteh> kpoman: i am absolutely possible that i can resize my chroot in no time ..
May 18 03:20:35 <cehteh> and why this plenty of reboots?
May 18 03:20:46 <kpoman> donno
May 18 03:20:48 <kpoman> :(
May 18 03:21:48 <DocScrutinizer> chroot to a loopmount :-o, resize2fs on a loopmount :-O, df /sys -- err, bye
May 18 03:23:02 <DocScrutinizer> I'd not even know if resize2fs maybe needs a real decent blockdevice to work
May 18 03:23:06 <cehteh> well .. first expand the file to the desire size
May 18 03:23:22 <kpoman> cehteh: already did that ...
May 18 03:23:35 <cehteh> either by appending 2GB statically or by making it sparse (wont work on FAT so prolly forget about that)
May 18 03:23:54 <cehteh> you did it wrong
May 18 03:24:18 <DocScrutinizer> I fail to see why you need a loopmount at all for that
May 18 03:24:47 <DocScrutinizer> OTOH I really couldn't care less atm
May 18 03:25:06 <kpoman> lol
May 18 03:25:29 <kpoman> DocScrutinizer: i also fail to care a lot :( I just want to go on with other problems, not this one :(
May 18 03:25:45 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: well i was under the impression that resize2fs didnt worked reliable on a file for him
May 18 03:25:48 <kpoman> I want to do some python scripts to control some usb devices
May 18 03:25:52 <cehteh> i never tried
May 18 03:26:01 <kpoman> I just wanna download needed stuff
May 18 03:26:07 <kpoman> cehteh: i already mounted the loop, now ???
May 18 03:26:14 <kpoman> mount -o loop -t ext2 /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 /tmp/loop/
May 18 03:26:15 <cehteh> unmount it
May 18 03:26:30 <kpoman> cehteh: then ? :(
May 18 03:26:34 <cehteh> cat /proc/partitions
May 18 03:27:05 <kpoman> cehteh: do I post the result ?
May 18 03:27:07 <cehteh> what size for the loop is shown there?
May 18 03:27:12 <cehteh> only the loop
May 18 03:27:40 <hcarrega> ?
May 18 03:27:42 <kpoman> cehteh: I umounted ! do I remount ?
May 18 03:27:56 <cehteh> cat /proc/partitions | grep loop
May 18 03:28:09 <kpoman> I do have only this by now
May 18 03:28:11 <kpoman> http://pastebin.com/G7Jdc63w
May 18 03:28:33 <cehteh> there is no loop set up ...
May 18 03:28:55 <cehteh> losetup /dev/loop0  /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2
May 18 03:28:58 <cehteh> cat /proc/partitions | grep loop
May 18 03:29:02 <kpoman> cehteh: do you want me to remount ?
May 18 03:29:10 <cehteh> no you should *not* mount it
May 18 03:29:53 <cehteh> so whats the size now?
May 18 03:30:25 <kpoman> cehteh: I dont have losetup ...
May 18 03:30:42 * DocScrutinizer suggests a ls -l  /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2
May 18 03:31:23 <cehteh> you have losetup .. thats in busybox no excuse
May 18 03:31:28 <kpoman> http://pastebin.com/UZKLUNh3
May 18 03:31:39 <kpoman> -sh: losetup: not found
May 18 03:31:44 <DocScrutinizer> id
May 18 03:31:46 <kpoman> not in busybox neither
May 18 03:31:52 <kpoman> uid=0(root) gid=0(root)
May 18 03:32:14 <cehteh> how did you get dm-0 now? ...
May 18 03:32:34 <kpoman> mounting via the provided script ( /sbin/debian )
May 18 03:33:20 <DocScrutinizer> Nokia-N900-02-8:/home/user/i2c# losetup --help
May 18 03:33:21 <DocScrutinizer> BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso26+0m5) multi-call binary
May 18 03:33:23 <DocScrutinizer> Usage: losetup [-o OFS] LOOPDEV FILE - associate loop devices
May 18 03:33:40 <kpoman> DocScrutinizer: I still am able to mount -o loop
May 18 03:33:52 <DocScrutinizer> did I mention somebody asked about N800 today
May 18 03:33:57 <cehteh> .. well i go to bed ..
May 18 03:34:38 <cehteh> when you mount it and resize your FS then it will be damaged at best ..
May 18 03:34:45 <kpoman> cehteh: no problem dude
May 18 03:34:48 <kpoman> :(
May 18 03:35:07 <kpoman> DocScrutinizer: I mounted manually: http://pastebin.com/L03pgtmA
May 18 03:35:19 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
May 18 03:36:36 <kpoman> mhm ?
May 18 03:37:46 <cehteh> n810 .. ok but well ..
May 18 03:38:34 <kpoman> i am not understanding dude sorry bout that :(
May 18 03:38:41 <cehteh> It can be used to enlarge or shrink an unmounted file
May 18 03:38:41 <cehteh>        system located on device.  If the filesystem is mounted, it can be used to expand the size of the  mounted  filesys-
May 18 03:38:41 <cehteh>        tem,  assuming  the  kernel  supports  on-line resizing.  (As of this writing, the Linux 2.6 kernel supports on-line
May 18 03:38:41 <cehteh>        resize for filesystems mounted using ext3 only.).
May 18 03:38:47 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: [2010-05-18 01:53:47] <kpoman> javispedro: because i just cant show what is going on via my n810 gui !
May 18 03:38:51 <cehteh> .. you better rtfm ..
May 18 03:39:02 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: well i just looked later here
May 18 03:39:16 <cehteh> but still the pronciple for the n810 should be very similar
May 18 03:39:53 <DocScrutinizer> yep, but there was also a n810 messybox update issue around that time
May 18 03:39:55 <cehteh> you can use the device mapper instead loop device too if you have those tools installed
May 18 03:40:03 <Funnyface> does the CA-75U (TV cable for N900) contain any electronics at all, or is it just a simple straight through cable?
May 18 03:40:13 <DocScrutinizer> so when he claims his messybox doesn't know losetup
May 18 03:40:15 <cehteh> maybe you can mount it readonly and pray
May 18 03:40:15 <DocScrutinizer> ...
May 18 03:40:40 <cehteh> Funnyface: should be just a cable
May 18 03:40:43 <kpoman> cehteh: I am with the thing mounted rw, I am able to chroot to it or whatever
May 18 03:40:59 <cehteh> kpoman: seen what i pasted above
May 18 03:41:29 <Funnyface> alright that's what I thought, it's just that it has a little fancy box, so I thought maybe they could have put something in there :P
May 18 03:41:30 * GAN900 wonders why the rendering is so ugly in all of the 3rd party browsers.
May 18 03:41:37 <kpoman> cehteh: "It can be used to enlarge or shrink an unmounted file ..."
May 18 03:41:38 <cehteh> when you resize a filesystem which is mounted (and not supported by the kernel) then the kernel will write back the superblock at unmount time
May 18 03:41:40 <kpoman> what is it ?
May 18 03:41:49 <cehteh> that means it will destroy your filesystem
May 18 03:41:56 <kpoman> cehteh: I already mounted/umounted many times
May 18 03:42:11 <kpoman> cehteh: and when I resized it was already umounted
May 18 03:42:24 <cehteh> yeah you still did something wrong
May 18 03:42:34 <cehteh> proof of that: it didnt worked
May 18 03:42:59 <cehteh> how much space is on your device?
May 18 03:43:02 <cehteh> (sd card)
May 18 03:43:06 <kpoman> cehteh: see the only strange thing was when I shrinked the file I was using an older busybox which didnt support large files ... however I upgraded and it did work again
May 18 03:43:26 <cehteh> just mount 2 filesystems and copy the damn files over and then delete the small image
May 18 03:43:30 <kpoman> cehteh: /dev/mmcblk1p1            7.4G      3.9G      3.5G  53% /media/mmc1
May 18 03:43:57 * DocScrutinizer starts to feel really depressed by a strange kind of IRC-deja-vu
May 18 03:44:06 <cehteh> hehe
May 18 03:44:53 <DocScrutinizer> WTF do you need a loopmount AT ALL??
May 18 03:45:12 <kpoman> cehteh: I really would like to understand wtf went wrong here .. i just used common tools, wtf
May 18 03:45:41 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: i am not sure but manpage tells about 'device' and i wont wonder when they using some ioctls for resize2fs
May 18 03:46:01 <cehteh> and sprinkle some fairy dust over the device so that plain file resizing doesnt work
May 18 03:46:03 <kpoman> DocScrutinizer: I did not partition my sdcard cause I even didnt know how to do that. I just installed that supercommon thing called debian-donno-what and it just worked ... but why on earth did it create a 1.3G :(
May 18 03:46:04 <DocScrutinizer> that's not my point though
May 18 03:46:23 <Funnyface> speaking of file systems, the other day I put a microSD in my N900 and used the built in file browser to format it, which FS did it use for it you think? FAT32?
May 18 03:46:42 <cehteh> somethnig like that
May 18 03:46:50 <kpoman> cehteh: is the squeeze term in the name of the file a reference to some strange tool used to mount ?
May 18 03:46:52 <cehteh> vfat? whats the difference? i dont know
May 18 03:47:09 <kpoman> very fat
May 18 03:47:11 <kpoman> :s
May 18 03:47:15 <Funnyface> hehe
May 18 03:47:41 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: whats your point then about the loopback?
May 18 03:48:06 <DocScrutinizer> Funnyface: you considered to ask the friendly tool 'mount' about the filetype of the sd-card?
May 18 03:48:12 <cehteh> btw mke2fs works on a image .. i am quite sure i used that once
May 18 03:48:46 <Funnyface> DocScrutinizer: nah, didn't think too much about it, and couldn't be bothered to pick up my N900 right now
May 18 03:49:07 <Funnyface> it's charging in an awkward place, and I'd rather not put more wear on the USB jack than necessary :)
May 18 03:49:17 * DocScrutinizer needs to get away from kbd, before sarcasm hits the roof
May 18 03:49:49 <DocScrutinizer> might consider to kick users just for fun
May 18 03:49:55 <DocScrutinizer> so, bye
May 18 03:50:11 <cehteh> [00:58] <Harzilein> http://slashdot.org/story/10/05/17/1541236/Software-Recognizes-Sarcastic-Tweets
May 18 03:50:11 <cehteh> [00:58] <Harzilein> Oh, a sarcasm detector, that's a real useful invention.
May 18 03:50:11 <cehteh> [00:59] <e_> BEEEP
May 18 03:50:18 <cehteh> :)
May 18 03:51:08 <cehteh> good night
May 18 03:51:13 <kpoman> byebye
May 18 04:25:37 <kpoman> ok, I am repartitioning the microsd with parted, then I will create a real partition where I will temporarily copy all the easy-deb thing ... then I will create a definitive partition and I will put back the files there
May 18 04:26:10 <kpoman> kinda sucks but, well, wont spend my life on this :(
May 18 05:15:33 <Surfa> wonder why the ecoach doesn't offer an update via app manager
May 18 05:19:54 * RST38h moos evilly
May 18 05:19:57 <RST38h> helo zap
May 18 05:20:17 <zap> morning :)
May 18 05:29:28 <Surfa> hm, what could be wrong when all packages return "ignoring version from wrong domain"
May 18 05:41:58 <Surfa> slightly annoying, plenty of complaints on the forums, but no feasible solution
May 18 05:42:26 <DaGame> hey there
May 18 05:42:33 <DaGame> are there any ppl from bulgaria
May 18 05:43:15 * DaGame is looking for bulgarians.
May 18 05:47:27 <pupnik> "sms delivery failed" - is there any more info available as to why?
May 18 05:55:46 <pigeon> it probably failed to find out why too...
May 18 06:01:20 <pupnik> dialing the number gives "call not established"
May 18 06:02:16 <pupnik> rebooting
May 18 06:11:46 <kaien900> i said i wouldnt, but i bought an n900... and i really like it. its fast. a question:
May 18 06:14:19 <kaien900> in microb, is there a mouse gesture, or a keyboard shortcut, to quickly go back one page?
May 18 06:14:50 <petteri> yes, backspace
May 18 06:16:03 <ptl> "quickly"
May 18 06:16:09 <ptl> backspace is the same as pressing the back button, isn't it?
May 18 06:16:12 <kaien900> thanks!
May 18 06:16:17 <petteri> no it is not
May 18 06:16:52 <petteri> back button takes you to the view of last pages or something like that
May 18 06:19:47 <mece> I'm a little confused. does an element in a hildon.touchselector only have a label?
May 18 06:21:11 <pigeon> hmm, i'm surprised there isn't a gui client for dict/dictd in the repo...
May 18 06:35:36 <dmj726> how can anyone actually find fingerpainting on a 3.5" screen useful?
May 18 06:37:21 <dmj726> mypaint with a fingerpad is terrible.  I can only imagine what an idevice would be like.
May 18 06:37:37 <dmj726> ...mypaint with a stylus is very nice though.
May 18 06:37:59 <pupnik> correct dmj726
May 18 06:38:09 <pupnik> we may have to buy extra n900s for the future
May 18 06:38:20 <pupnik> maybe the future gets worse
May 18 06:38:24 * dmj726 just made a very nice sketch with mine.
May 18 06:38:32 <Surfa> are there some issues with extras repo?
May 18 06:38:39 <pupnik> yes
May 18 06:38:47 <Surfa> ok, great..
May 18 06:39:04 <Surfa> i spent few moments debugging why upgrades don't work :)
May 18 06:39:25 <dmj726> http://www.pcworld.com/zoom?id=186281&page=2&zoomIdx=4 this with mypaint and a stylus would be useful.
May 18 06:39:32 <pupnik> I've watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
May 18 06:39:43 <dmj726> Apple should make one.  THey could call it an ipad
May 18 06:40:14 <dmj726> oh wait...
May 18 06:40:57 <dmj726> ...capacitive screens are frustrating unless the manufacturer includes the special stylus.
May 18 06:41:39 * dmj726 is rambling tonight.
May 18 06:42:33 <pupnik> i had a genius idea for mypaint
May 18 06:42:44 <dmj726> please tell!
May 18 06:42:46 <pupnik> use a seperate tablet for color selection / mixing
May 18 06:42:50 <mece> grr argh gtk cellrenderer is confusing me.
May 18 06:43:08 <dmj726> hmm...that might work.
May 18 06:43:47 <dmj726> That's why there needs to be a Maemo/Meego tablet with a 9-11 inch resistive screen.
May 18 06:43:53 <pupnik> you know like how an artist has his seperate pad for paints?
May 18 06:44:00 <dmj726> yep
May 18 06:44:13 <pupnik> leave your n800, 770, n810 on the table and just pick/blend colors
May 18 06:44:42 <dmj726> ...at the least, a big maego tablet would have room to have a color strip at the bottom
May 18 06:45:10 <mece> mypaint is awesome btw.
May 18 06:45:11 * dmj726 would have to borrow his mom's n900 for this.
May 18 06:45:15 <dmj726> It is.
May 18 06:45:40 <dmj726> One of my favorite Maemo apps.
May 18 06:45:49 <mece> ditto
May 18 06:46:15 <dmj726> A few keyboard shortcuts aside, it feels like it was designed for the tablet.
May 18 06:46:33 <pupnik> i really need to customize a workflow for myself for mypaint
May 18 06:46:34 <dmj726> In a way, it was.
May 18 06:46:49 <Surfa> pupnik, is there some announcement about that issue or something that you just have to know?
May 18 06:46:57 <dmj726> considering that the n900 is a linux computer with a graphics tablet built in.
May 18 06:47:20 <pupnik> Surfa: i just had the idea while sleeping this morning
May 18 06:47:25 <dmj726> I would like to see mypaint tweaked to have somewhat better defaults for the n900
May 18 06:47:47 <mece> unfortunately none of this explains how I get a cellrenderer to render one columnt from the liststore that is the modelt for the touchselector column.
May 18 06:48:05 <Surfa> pupnik, right..
May 18 06:48:09 <pupnik> heh what are you working on mece
May 18 06:48:10 <mece> wow. a lot of typos in that one O.o
May 18 06:48:36 <mece> pupnik, a wine database interface using fuzzy onthologies.
May 18 06:49:03 <mece> pupnik, it's actual work. Imagine that. I managed to convince my boss to do it on the N900 :D
May 18 06:52:20 <mece> "You can optionally pass a gtk.CellRenderer in cell_renderer, together with a None -terminated  list of pairs property/value, in the same way you would use gtk.TreeViewColumn.set_attributes()." -- what the shit? I'm too tired to understand any of this...
May 18 06:52:42 <mece> I can't imagine how I managed to get this done before. Completely confused now.
May 18 06:53:13 <pupnik> ++ mece
May 18 06:54:21 * mece is getting a humongous cup-o-joe. That should help.
May 18 06:55:39 <Stskeeps> that 3d driver makes me cry
May 18 06:56:34 <mece> Stskeeps, have one been provided for you? (for mer, I assume)
May 18 06:57:03 <Stskeeps> the n8x0 one from TI
May 18 06:57:11 <Stskeeps> turns out most of the driver is a big fat lie
May 18 06:57:26 <Stskeeps> it works, sortof, but most of the routines in the driver does -nothing-
May 18 06:59:03 <dmj726> heh...anyone able to install the sdk in ubuntu 10.04?
May 18 07:00:08 <pupnik> anybody in taiwan?  i need something shipped  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zha_jiang_mian  sauce
May 18 07:00:32 <larswey> lol pupnik
May 18 07:00:35 <dmj726> pupnik what OS are you on?
May 18 07:01:04 <pupnik> linux
May 18 07:01:20 <dmj726> ...which distro/version?
May 18 07:01:31 <pupnik> sidux!  http://sidux.com
May 18 07:02:02 <mece> I'm on an old xpc with windows xp running linux mint 7 in virtualbox. Things are.. well snappy they aren't. Let's leave it at that.
May 18 07:02:21 <dmj726> why the winxp?
May 18 07:02:23 <dmj726> games?
May 18 07:02:30 <pupnik> drivers? :)
May 18 07:02:34 <mece> Ḯ'm at work
May 18 07:02:40 <dmj726> ah
May 18 07:02:42 <mece> it was like that when I got here.
May 18 07:03:06 <dmj726> ...XP was the virtualized OS at work for me.
May 18 07:03:09 <mece> I added linux in the virtualbox, and stole another monitor from a coworker :)
May 18 07:03:22 <mece> so it's pretty convenient, albeit slow.
May 18 07:03:46 <mece> so i'm running virtual maemo in virtual linux in windows xp.
May 18 07:03:51 <dmj726> ...I'm happy with how robust Linux is when it fails.
May 18 07:04:03 <Surfa> robust when it fails :)
May 18 07:04:07 <Surfa> sounds funny
May 18 07:04:08 <mece> my linux is nice enough to not fail.
May 18 07:04:20 <mece> Surfa, fail and robust doesn't compute
May 18 07:04:31 <dmj726> seriously dead xservers and kernel panics on boot are like 30 minute fixes.
May 18 07:04:41 <dmj726> You can even do an upgrade in the process.
May 18 07:05:44 <dmj726> I'm pretty sure that a bluescreening xp + 30 minutes and a windows 7 disc don't equal all of your documents and settings preserved now running under the newest version of windows.
May 18 07:07:02 <dmj726> ...no clue why my netbook was getting kernel panics all of a sudden though.
May 18 07:07:26 <dmj726> Rather glad I had my home folder on a second partition though.
May 18 07:08:24 <dmj726> That's a pretty nice recovery from a pretty catastrophic failure.
May 18 07:08:43 <pupnik> ty for reminder to backup browser settings
May 18 07:08:45 <mece> aw fuck it. This is too cmplicated. I'll just  parse the data using the label as key in a dict.
May 18 07:09:22 <mece> dmj726, yeah that is a good idea. Infact I think I'll do that on my computer at home tonight.
May 18 07:09:50 <pupnik> mece - yup, sometimes you gotta cut the time-consuming ideas
May 18 07:09:55 <petur> to put things in perspective, linux runs fine on my netbook, but if I want to actually use it (use my network) I have to boot windows (or use a supported wifi dongle).
May 18 07:10:34 <dmj726> Yep, and the failure allowed me to upgrade to lucid and reorganize the partitions to fix a lack of free space on the root partition.
May 18 07:10:41 <pupnik> protip: check the wifi chipset before buying
May 18 07:10:48 <mece> pupnik, I mean it's super easy to get a touchselector to display stuff and select it, but if you want actual data in there too besides the lable, you have to go deep into gtk territory.
May 18 07:10:51 <dmj726> petur: your wifi doesn't just work?
May 18 07:11:20 <dmj726> man, that's like so 2008
May 18 07:12:08 <mece> I guess I've just been lucky enough to have the correct hardware, because everything just worked right away when I installed it. It being linux mint 7.
May 18 07:12:19 <petur> there's a driver (broadcomm), but connections to my wifi are only made sporadic. Most of the time it times out claiming the wpa key doesn't work. My laptop (on 10.04) can connect fine, so it's the broadcomm driver.
May 18 07:12:27 <mece> skipping 8 and going straight to 9 in a couple of weeks.
May 18 07:12:44 <pupnik> petur: broadcom driver will improve a lot in newer kernels
May 18 07:12:58 <dmj726> ...Last I checked, I've been having more driver pain with windows than linux.
May 18 07:13:54 <pupnik> just installing windows is enough to make me want to kill someone
May 18 07:14:15 <pupnik> all the *shit* you have to do.  like a god-damn circus poodle
May 18 07:14:23 * petur waits for ubuntu to catch up with the rest of the world. By then this netbook will be old junk :/
May 18 07:14:30 <pupnik> like a gimp
May 18 07:14:50 <pupnik> ideapad S10-2 petur?
May 18 07:15:01 <petur> nope, hp mini 5102
May 18 07:15:31 <dmj726> I spent an hour just installing the drivers on windows that ubuntu included by default
May 18 07:15:39 <pupnik> nice petur - with the non-glare screen?  and the nice price?
May 18 07:15:49 <dmj726> ...non-glare screen!
May 18 07:15:58 <petur> yes, non-glare hi-res screen
May 18 07:16:04 <mece> how hi-res?
May 18 07:16:07 <petur> and 10 hours battery life :)
May 18 07:16:08 <dmj726> Why do they keep making glossy screens?
May 18 07:16:19 <dmj726> I still have an eeepc 900
May 18 07:17:02 <dmj726> ...small enough to just fit in your pocket, matte screen, and the keys are ordered:
May 18 07:17:24 <dmj726> <ctrl><Fn><super><Alt>
May 18 07:17:31 <mece> hee
May 18 07:17:39 <dmj726> ...which is the best ordering for a linux user.
May 18 07:18:14 <mece> so are you guys as excited about the upcoming Watain album as I am?
May 18 07:18:39 <dmj726> Watain?
May 18 07:18:46 <mece> I guess not.
May 18 07:18:48 <mece> ;)
May 18 07:19:19 <mece> swedish black metal. They're very good within the genre :)
May 18 07:19:22 <dmj726> I still have to read Cory Doctorow's last book and a half.
May 18 07:20:02 <mece> and what's that?
May 18 07:20:06 <dmj726> I got to talk with him a bit on Thursday.
May 18 07:20:26 <dmj726> the last half of Makers and For The Win.
May 18 07:20:39 <dmj726> He's a really good scifi author.
May 18 07:20:49 <mece> o scifi
May 18 07:20:55 <mece> and you're meeting him?
May 18 07:21:04 <mece> err you met him?
May 18 07:21:04 <dmj726> I did on Thursday.
May 18 07:21:09 <mece> that's cool
May 18 07:21:14 <mece> what did he say?
May 18 07:22:31 <dmj726> A lot of it was about gaming, goldfarming and such with his new book, but he also talked about british politics and the Digital Economy Act, which has some pretty unpleasant things like kicking families off the internet based on accusations ands such.
May 18 07:22:57 <dmj726> He also mentioned that his daughter likes to watch flash video on his n800.
May 18 07:23:07 <mece> \o/
May 18 07:23:20 <mece> goldfarming?
May 18 07:23:32 <dmj726> ...I mentioned that I was the person who made the video of the n900 reading his book on his blog.
May 18 07:23:42 <mece> I actually talked alot to a person who makes a living drilling for gold this weekend.
May 18 07:24:15 <dmj726> ...that's where (typically chinese) gamers mine for virtual gold and items in games and sell them to rich players for real money
May 18 07:24:17 <edheldil> mece: in WoW? :)
May 18 07:24:33 <mece> no, this guy drills for gold in real life.
May 18 07:24:43 <dmj726> yeah...apparently his latest book involves MMO goldfarmers unionizing.
May 18 07:24:58 <mece> which is actually very interesting, and much cooler than doing it virtually. IMHO.
May 18 07:25:01 * edheldil vomits
May 18 07:25:18 <dmj726> Sounds unusual, but given his previous two books, I'm willing to give it a try.
May 18 07:25:58 <dmj726> Little Brother was fantastic and Makers is really good so far, but I haven't had time to finish it.
May 18 07:26:57 <dmj726> You can download his books for free on his website.  craphound.com by the way.
May 18 07:27:20 <dmj726> He's a fan of the whole creative commons thing.
May 18 07:27:25 <mece> dmj726, you can download them? Well in that case I'll buy them.
May 18 07:27:57 <dmj726> I downloaded and read a couple and promptly bought them and shoved them into my friends hands.
May 18 07:34:58 <alterego> I was thinking of writing a small app which maps cellular connectivity stats to geolocation
May 18 07:35:33 <Treibholz> has somebody ported ClamAV yet to Maemo?
May 18 07:35:38 <alterego> I was thinking of getting it to anonymously update information through a web service for mapping cellular connectivity information, maybe based on google maps or something.
May 18 07:36:56 <hrw> morning
May 18 07:40:00 <pupnik> i was thinking we ought to be getting more fun info from the cellmodem
May 18 07:40:06 <pupnik> like 'why did that sms not work'
May 18 07:43:14 <mece> Treibholz, what's ClamAV?
May 18 07:43:50 <Treibholz> mece: a virus scanner.
May 18 07:43:59 <mece> hm
May 18 07:46:19 <Treibholz> That was meant as a joke...
May 18 07:46:25 <mece> hee.
May 18 07:46:34 * mece is slow
May 18 07:46:47 <mece> also some people are serious about stuff like that.
May 18 07:46:59 <mece> wrongly so, but still.
May 18 07:47:02 <ptl> since I can't ask about PR1.2 here without being kicked, can I ask if there is any way of asking about PR1.2 without being kicked?
May 18 07:47:13 <Treibholz> although one could scan MicriSD-Cards for viruses, then...
May 18 07:47:14 <Stskeeps> rot13 it?
May 18 07:47:16 <mece> ptl, no. on both accounts
May 18 07:47:21 <ptl> :(
May 18 07:47:24 <mece> hee
May 18 07:47:35 <mece> what about pr1.2?
May 18 07:48:10 <ptl> I won't ask, I don't want to be kicked. (I was just going like " are we there yet? ", but I never said that)
May 18 07:48:27 <mece> apparently we're not :)
May 18 07:48:50 <Treibholz> what about http://www.ismaemopr1.2releasedyet.com
May 18 07:49:26 <dotblank> when 1.2 comes out im going to release my GrooveShark client
May 18 07:49:55 <Treibholz> like http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/
May 18 07:53:33 <fcrozat> hmm modest has a bad tendancy to sometime use 3G acces to check for mail even if it was configured to not check over 3G
May 18 08:00:02 <phellarv> fcrozat: I had a similar experience a month ago. My phone-bill for that month was not a pleasant experience.
May 18 08:00:24 <phellarv> <--- Get lots of mails
May 18 08:00:28 <fcrozat> phellarv: yes, me too, I was able to get cancelled by my operator ;)
May 18 08:00:35 <fcrozat> s/get/get it/
May 18 08:00:35 <infobot> fcrozat meant: phellarv: yes, me too, I was able to get it cancelled by my operator ;)
May 18 08:01:27 <FIQ> Hi. I've no idea why i have mksh installed, but i'm unable to remove it. Is it some way to delete it manually?
May 18 08:13:23 <ptl> why you are unable?
May 18 08:13:24 <ptl> apt-get --purge remove mksh
May 18 08:21:21 <pupnik> Tell us what you love about N900 and what you’d like to see changed. Your answers will help us improve N900 and make future Nokia devices better than ever.  http://maemo.nokia.com/survey/
May 18 08:23:53 <pupnik> where do i click to *Take* the survey?
May 18 08:26:03 <pgas> http://maemo.nokia.com/ "The N900 survey has ended"
May 18 08:26:10 <Appiah> what
May 18 08:26:12 <Appiah> a survey
May 18 08:27:12 <copumpkin> is there a way to convince the installer script for scratchbox (for maemo 5) from the nokia site to install on my x86-64 system? I don't plan on using the qemu stuff, I just need to compile for my n900 and then copy the executables there
May 18 08:27:46 <FIQ> Why doesn't bash want to read the .bashrc file in maemo?
May 18 08:28:01 <FIQ> When i use bash through debian armel, it does
May 18 08:28:58 <pgas> Maybe your shell is a login shell? and thus read .profile .bash_profile and not .bashrc?
May 18 08:30:12 <pgas> also depending on the copmilation it might source .bashrc when you use ssh or not
May 18 08:30:39 <FIQ> Actually, when i start bash from bash (cmd "bash") it reads it
May 18 08:31:08 <FIQ> But, when i start it from the menu ("X Terminal") it doesn't
May 18 08:31:25 <FIQ> And yes, i've changed the default shell to bash
May 18 08:31:42 <pgas> try: shopt | grep login
May 18 08:32:17 <FIQ> login_shell    	on
May 18 08:32:47 <pgas> login shells don't source .bashrc
May 18 08:33:03 <FIQ> ah, k
May 18 08:33:12 <FIQ> what file does it source then?
May 18 08:33:16 <pgas>  put something like [ "$BASH_VERSION" ] && case $- in *i*) . ~/.bashrc;;esace in your .profile
May 18 08:33:50 <pgas> .bash_profile or .bash_login or .profile
May 18 08:34:47 <smoku> FIQ, firmware does not use bash. /bin/sh comes from scratchbox and it's not bash
May 18 08:35:04 <smoku> s/scratchbox/busybox/
May 18 08:35:04 <infobot> smoku meant: FIQ, firmware does not use bash. /bin/sh comes from busybox and it's not bash
May 18 08:35:15 <smoku> yup
May 18 08:35:18 <smoku> a typo
May 18 08:36:03 <smoku> ergo it does not use bash-specific configuration file
May 18 08:36:16 <pgas> <FIQ> And yes, i've changed the default shell to bash
May 18 08:36:58 <smoku> by editing xterm.desktop file? :>
May 18 08:37:54 <FIQ> nope
May 18 08:38:07 <FIQ> i did it through /etc/passwd
May 18 08:38:22 <pupnik> thanks for that keyboard file again smoku
May 18 08:38:44 <pupnik> one of the coolest jobs ever is open here:  "The ideal candidate for this position will have at least 5 years of programming experience in Linux graphics area. In-depth understanding of X.org and Linux Graphics drivers development background is mandatatory. The candidate should also have previous experience and visibility to the Linux Graphics community side (Mesa, X.org, driver developmetn, etc."....
May 18 08:38:58 * pupnik sighs
May 18 08:39:05 <FIQ> and .bash_profile seems to actually include .bashrc if it exists
May 18 08:40:01 <FIQ> "if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then(newline). ~/.bashrc(newline)fi"
May 18 08:40:18 <smoku> FIQ, I'm not sure whether osso-xterm honors passwd entry
May 18 08:40:37 <FIQ> But it actually starts bash
May 18 08:40:42 <FIQ> and not sh
May 18 08:40:48 <FIQ> after the edit
May 18 08:40:56 <lcuk> pupnik, there are cooler jobs, but that sounds decent
May 18 08:41:11 <smoku> pupnik, n/p
May 18 08:41:21 <FIQ> Hm
May 18 08:41:38 <FIQ> Seems as it doesn't
May 18 08:42:34 <FIQ> 34
May 18 08:42:37 <FIQ> er*
May 18 08:42:40 <FIQ> i mean
May 18 08:42:45 <MohammadAG> I borked scratchbox, how awesome is that
May 18 08:42:52 <smoku> FIQ, so it is as pgas said - login shells read .profile (and .bash_profile in bash case, not .bashrc) - just source .bashrc in your .bash_profile
May 18 08:43:24 <FIQ> But it already is sourced in there
May 18 08:43:31 <FIQ> [10:42:17] <FIQ> "if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then(newline). ~/.bashrc(newline)fi"
May 18 08:43:59 <FIQ> (xchat doesn't want to paste multilines)
May 18 08:44:01 <pgas> put set -x at the beginning of .bash_profile, you should see what's executed
May 18 08:44:43 <FIQ> no change
May 18 08:45:22 <FIQ> Hm
May 18 08:45:41 <VDVsx> pupnik, where's that job ? :)
May 18 08:45:54 <pupnik> tampere, fi
May 18 08:46:09 <VDVsx> ah, so maemo/meego
May 18 08:46:19 <pupnik> there's what, like 10 people on the planet qualified for it? :)
May 18 08:46:36 <FIQ> echo 'test' didn't show up eihter
May 18 08:46:51 <FIQ> afk
May 18 08:46:57 <VDVsx> pupnik, there are more for sure, at least x.org people
May 18 08:47:15 <VDVsx> but probably already working for Intel or Nokia :D
May 18 08:57:22 <pupnik> http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_e90-reviews-1857.php  240 *pages* of love for the Nokia E90  .. :)  Wonder if we could get maemo on it :P
May 18 08:58:16 <viliny__> is E90 a new model?
May 18 08:58:34 <viliny__> oh right, yes
May 18 08:59:10 <pupnik> haha
May 18 09:01:50 <viliny__> 3 year old device it is then :P
May 18 09:01:57 <viliny__> any good?
May 18 09:03:37 <pupnik> has clamshell with huge keyboard.  but screen resolution doesn't fit maemo4 well
May 18 09:06:23 <viliny__> got rid of my n95 recently
May 18 09:06:30 <viliny__> now reading about it sounds kinda powerful
May 18 09:07:30 <viliny__> only thing i miss is picture quality on photos
May 18 09:07:53 <viliny__> n900 is kinda hit and miss for most parts so far... wonder if software tweaks will fix it
May 18 09:09:26 <brik> yeah can be hard taking good photos with it, but  they are good when you get it right :p
May 18 09:09:48 <SpeedEvil> For values of good that don't include 5MP.
May 18 09:09:54 * SpeedEvil sighs.
May 18 09:10:20 <viliny__> I don't get that sentence SpeedEvil
May 18 09:10:47 <viliny__> but yeah, macro pictures with n900 so far have been very much to my liking
May 18 09:10:49 <SpeedEvil> Sticking 'Carl Zeis' on a label next to the lens does not mean it can break the laws of physics.
May 18 09:11:15 <SpeedEvil> The lens cannot resolve 5MP onto the imager, it's too small.
May 18 09:11:51 <MohammadAG> was the N95's lens larger?
May 18 09:11:54 <pupnik> the photons are too big?
May 18 09:12:00 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: yes.
May 18 09:12:03 <viliny__> SpeedEvil: example 1 has a camera with the label carl zeiss next to it, example 2 comes out several years later with pretty much the same hardware on the camera department but the latter has a inconsistent quality track record in my case.
May 18 09:12:24 <SpeedEvil> viliny__: I mean the n900 lens
May 18 09:12:30 <viliny__> ah i see
May 18 09:13:02 <SpeedEvil> viliny__: It's simply a case of diameter - 1.8mm has a diffraction of 1.22* wavelength/diameter - which turns out to be too large to obtain 5MP images
May 18 09:13:14 <viliny__> too small?
May 18 09:13:30 <SpeedEvil> Which is borne out by zooming in - you will never see a image with adjacent black and white pixels.
May 18 09:14:33 <SpeedEvil> The optical resolution - how much the smallest angular distance it can sense is - is the inverse of the lens diameter. This is why astronomical telescopes are large. (well one reason)
May 18 09:14:38 <viliny__> wait now, the n900 has a smaller lens than the n95, right?
May 18 09:15:00 <SpeedEvil> I don't off-hand know.
May 18 09:15:16 <viliny__> i have both phones in my vicinity
May 18 09:15:18 <MohammadAG> Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed! <-- any ideas? the reinstall isn't working
May 18 09:15:28 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: reinstall of what?
May 18 09:15:51 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, scratchbox
May 18 09:15:57 <pupnik> check out the nokia N93 for a cool lens, SpeedEvil
May 18 09:15:57 <MohammadAG> it broke on me for some reason
May 18 09:16:27 <viliny__> pupnik: damn that thing looks fragile
May 18 09:16:29 <pupnik> n97 mini and n900 have same size lens from appearance
May 18 09:16:47 <pupnik> 3x optical zoom - takes nice pics
May 18 09:17:23 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: Open the n900 up - look at the lens, and you can see it's ~1.8mm in diameter
May 18 09:17:39 <SpeedEvil> The middle glass bit.
May 18 09:17:55 <pupnik> yeah i can see that tiny hole from outside -- itt's the n93 that has the 3x optical
May 18 09:18:32 <MohammadAG> optical?
May 18 09:18:40 <mece1> tes
May 18 09:18:43 <SpeedEvil> To make decent optical system, you'd need to make it thicker
May 18 09:18:44 <mece1> optical zoom on that one
May 18 09:18:57 <mece1> n93 has really big optics for a phone
May 18 09:19:35 <pupnik> mece1: yeah, i am impressed they had the cojones to make that form factor.  looks like a digital video camera
May 18 09:19:38 <SpeedEvil> You could - without affecting the footprint of the camera on the phone - just design - make the camera a good 1mm thicker 'free' - slightly redesign the camera shutter assembly.
May 18 09:20:14 <SpeedEvil> To do more means you need to punch a hole in the PCB - which would actually be not too much of an issue in the n900.
May 18 09:20:31 <pupnik> or you could mount camera on the side -- like N93  http://digadget.com/digital-gadget/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/nokia-n93-open.jpg
May 18 09:25:56 <viliny__> id rather not have that
May 18 09:26:09 <viliny__> i have seen a battered n93 at work here, looks like a goddamn discarded toy
May 18 09:30:06 <pupnik> viliny__: anyway SpeedEvil is 100% correct about the lens issue
May 18 09:31:48 <viliny__> pupnik: Yeah, pity though.
May 18 09:32:01 <SpeedEvil> You can in principle upgrade the n900s camera.
May 18 09:32:04 <SpeedEvil> It's socketed.
May 18 09:32:17 <viliny__> the phone can all but make mashed potatoes and they give it a lens thats too small :/
May 18 09:32:21 <SpeedEvil> I have real doubts there will ever be a better suitable camera module that will fit in the same hole.
May 18 09:33:19 <viliny__> maybe get the usb h mode working so you can carry around a system camera and then transfer the pictures via usb cable to the n900 :P
May 18 09:33:29 <viliny__> con-vini-ent!
May 18 09:33:55 <pupnik> the n900 is good enough for me.  my real camera is lonely now
May 18 09:34:07 <BCMM> it is better than my digital camera
May 18 09:34:36 <viliny__> i feel discouraged to take photos but yeah, it's pretty good if the lights hits it just right
May 18 09:34:42 <viliny__> photos at night though...
May 18 09:35:17 <SpeedEvil> viliny__: Bluetooth would in principle work.
May 18 09:35:18 <BCMM> my digital camera is pretty old though; looks like a regular film compact
May 18 09:35:24 <BCMM> (and weighs the same)
May 18 09:35:45 <SpeedEvil> viliny__: Though if you can afford a digital camera with bluetooth, you may as well hire a photographer to follow you around.
May 18 09:35:54 <pupnik> nothing compares to a big, quality sensor
May 18 09:36:13 <viliny__> SpeedEvil: not to mention switching the memory card around
May 18 09:36:19 <adeus> I have a camera with wlan
May 18 09:36:37 <adeus> supports ad-hocing
May 18 09:36:41 <SpeedEvil> adeus: yeah - that's another alternative.
May 18 09:37:05 <SpeedEvil> http://www.eye.fi/
May 18 09:37:06 <SpeedEvil> that
May 18 09:37:11 <SpeedEvil> SD card with wifi inside.
May 18 09:37:17 <SpeedEvil> and the n900 in master mode
May 18 09:39:14 <adeus> it's old
May 18 09:39:18 <adeus> maybe this thing http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Powershot-SD430-Digital-Optical/dp/B000B8UOV6
May 18 09:40:04 <SpeedEvil> adeus: no - the eye fi works with any camera with a SD card. It's rather clever. (though also annoying in other ways)
May 18 09:40:17 <SpeedEvil> (but can be hacked to be less annoying)
May 18 09:41:17 <pupnik> i wonder if a Shack-Hartman sensor could be used to cover the whole back of a cell-phone
May 18 09:41:30 <adeus> SpeedEvil, I wast just wondering what model I had
May 18 09:41:33 <adeus> -t
May 18 09:41:34 <pupnik> and somehow generate a coherent image
May 18 09:41:49 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: in principle you can do stuff like that
May 18 09:41:57 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: It's maybe a few decades off though.
May 18 09:42:22 <pupnik> i am outgeeked
May 18 09:43:17 <SpeedEvil> Coherent imaging requires accurate phase reconstruction. This is doable at microwaves, but not without reference beams with semiconductors at optical freqs
May 18 09:44:00 <pupnik> ahhh
May 18 09:47:26 <MohammadAG> b-man, ping
May 18 09:54:04 <kaie> the test on https://ssltls.de/ returns failure for n900's microb
May 18 09:55:06 * satmd reads and thinks this should need fixing
May 18 09:56:22 <pupnik> i still can't get a reliable mouse cursor on N900 without starting a flash-website (for use with synergy)
May 18 09:58:12 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: it seems a little picky as to the drag-in point for the left for me
May 18 09:58:24 <viliny__> SpeedEvil: that memory card sounds awesome...
May 18 09:58:29 <supertramp> what's the best GPS software for n900 / europe?
May 18 09:58:55 <tybollt> supertramp: sygic
May 18 09:59:03 <pupnik> nobody besides me sets the n900 next to computer and uses it with keyboard/mouse
May 18 09:59:08 <tybollt> pupnik: "works for me"
May 18 09:59:29 <pupnik> which synergy do you use tybollt ?  maybe someone fixed this stuff
May 18 09:59:39 <tybollt> no
May 18 09:59:40 <tybollt> I don't
May 18 09:59:49 <tybollt> the mouse cursor appears just fine
May 18 09:59:50 <dotblank> check it out
May 18 09:59:51 <tybollt> is what I meant
May 18 09:59:52 <supertramp> tybollt: is there IGO or tomtom?
May 18 09:59:58 <dotblank> http://encodable.com/cgi-bin/filechucker.cgi?action=landing&path=/&file=groove_0.0.1-1_amd64.deb
May 18 10:00:04 <tybollt> supertramp: S Y G I C
May 18 10:00:05 <dotblank> preview of the grooveshark client
May 18 10:00:09 <dotblank> this is for ubuntu x65
May 18 10:00:13 <dotblank> 64*
May 18 10:00:24 <pupnik> ah well, now i have mouse cursor in all apps (after loading homestarrunner.com)
May 18 10:00:26 <supertramp> tybollt: ok :) is it free? :)
May 18 10:00:40 <tybollt> no
May 18 10:00:47 <tybollt> sygic is payware (IIRC)
May 18 10:01:12 <MohammadAG> anyone using 1.1.1?
May 18 10:01:19 <tybollt> me
May 18 10:01:35 <MohammadAG> got the stock headphones?
May 18 10:01:43 <fraggeln> tybollt: yea, it is. costs rounte 39.99euro
May 18 10:01:45 <fraggeln> rounde..
May 18 10:01:52 <tybollt> MohammadAG: can't try now - why?
May 18 10:01:53 <fraggeln> ehh. round..
May 18 10:02:14 <MohammadAG> headset-control doesn't seem to be working for some users
May 18 10:02:25 <MohammadAG> I have 1.2 packages on a 1.1.1 install, so can't check
May 18 10:02:27 <tybollt> fraggeln: not much but still a PITA to pay for something all other (new) nokla phones get FOR FREE :)
May 18 10:02:45 <tybollt> MohammadAG: Huh? How can you? Shouldn't install
May 18 10:02:55 <fraggeln> tybollt: ovi maps? :)
May 18 10:02:57 <tybollt> MohammadAG: qt 4.5 vs 4.6?
May 18 10:02:57 <fraggeln> its free :D
May 18 10:03:06 <MohammadAG> tybollt, yes it shouldn't install, but it did :P
May 18 10:03:09 <tybollt> fraggeln: no
May 18 10:03:18 <tybollt> fraggeln: ovi maps on the n900 is useless POS.
May 18 10:03:21 <tybollt> please
May 18 10:03:26 <MohammadAG> (some apps are broken though)
May 18 10:03:50 <tybollt> MohammadAG: you're basically chuck norris awesome! You installed a package that can't be installed ;)
May 18 10:04:00 <tybollt> anyway I guess I can check
May 18 10:04:03 <tybollt> what's the procedure
May 18 10:04:07 <furunk3l> yes hello
May 18 10:04:08 <MohammadAG> lol
May 18 10:04:15 <tybollt> plug in headphones see if I can manipulate volume?
May 18 10:04:16 <MohammadAG> apt-get install headset-control
May 18 10:04:21 <tybollt> aha
May 18 10:04:24 <MohammadAG> and see if you can pause the song using the button
May 18 10:04:25 <tybollt> fair enough
May 18 10:04:45 <MohammadAG> the end button has been useless to me till I got the package lol
May 18 10:04:53 <tybollt> MohammadAG: does the thing have some mp3 from default?
May 18 10:04:59 <tybollt> I don't have any songs on my device :S
May 18 10:05:13 <MohammadAG> hmm, think so
May 18 10:05:24 <MohammadAG> It has some good stuff from Keith Merrow
May 18 10:06:12 <ZogG> morning
May 18 10:06:23 <MohammadAG> \o
May 18 10:06:26 <tybollt> o/
May 18 10:06:32 <tybollt> \\o
May 18 10:06:37 <ZogG> MohammadAG, people in Israel are fu##ing stupid
May 18 10:06:40 <tybollt> _o/
May 18 10:06:46 <ZogG> \o/
May 18 10:06:49 <tybollt> ZogG: amen to that
May 18 10:06:50 <MohammadAG> ZogG, I'll second that
May 18 10:06:55 <ZogG> yesterday i was sitting in bar
May 18 10:07:01 <MohammadAG> actually
May 18 10:07:03 <ZogG> and there was drunk guy
May 18 10:07:07 <tybollt> ZogG: Israelians and Arabs in that area are about equally stupid though ;)
May 18 10:07:08 <MohammadAG> people in general are stupid
May 18 10:07:14 <ZogG> after he disturbed all the bar
May 18 10:07:18 <tybollt> oi yeah
May 18 10:07:22 <tybollt> MohammadAG++
May 18 10:07:26 <tybollt> people are stupid
May 18 10:07:40 <MohammadAG> tybollt, I'm from IL, just for the record :P
May 18 10:07:40 <ZogG> long story short - he started to jerk off in the middle of bar
May 18 10:07:45 <ZogG> and it was near us
May 18 10:07:47 <MohammadAG> O_o
May 18 10:08:35 <ZogG> tybollt, for the record i'm from Israel too
May 18 10:08:46 <tybollt> Meh
May 18 10:09:04 <tybollt> ZogG: Drunk people are idiots everywhere - that is universal :)
May 18 10:09:16 <ZogG> he was on drugs i think
May 18 10:09:25 <ZogG> never saw something like that
May 18 10:09:27 <tybollt> probably meth
May 18 10:09:27 * MohammadAG replaces "drunk" with a wildcard
May 18 10:09:49 <tybollt> MohammadAG: drunk people are stupid*er* ;)
May 18 10:09:58 <ZogG> MohammadAG, do you drink ?
May 18 10:10:06 <MohammadAG> 1. I'm 16
May 18 10:10:17 <MohammadAG> 2. Name gives a clue :P
May 18 10:10:18 <ZogG> so?
May 18 10:10:26 <ZogG> oh 2
May 18 10:10:28 <MohammadAG> 3. Wouldn't do it even if 2 was invalid
May 18 10:10:29 <MohammadAG> :P
May 18 10:10:33 <ZogG> yeah - that's why i asked
May 18 10:11:09 <MohammadAG> tybollt, what about tmo users?
May 18 10:11:26 <tybollt> Ouch :D
May 18 10:11:36 <tybollt> you're saying TMOers are worse than drunks? :D
May 18 10:11:56 <ZogG> i thinkty is an alcoholist
May 18 10:12:46 <pupnik> designers of 8088, IBM-PC and Soundblaster... don't know what drugs they were on
May 18 10:13:07 <MohammadAG> tybollt, kind of :P
May 18 10:13:18 <pupnik> spend some time with dosbox
May 18 10:13:57 <smoku> worse is better
May 18 10:14:47 * MohammadAG points and laughs http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52952
May 18 10:14:51 <Jaffa> Morning, all
May 18 10:15:25 <MohammadAG> Morning Jaffa
May 18 10:15:52 <ZogG> morning
May 18 10:16:46 <ZogG> MohammadAG isn't mplayer-plugin should play the quicktime stuff on sites?
May 18 10:17:17 <MohammadAG> no idea lol
May 18 10:17:29 <MohammadAG> never used QT <-- hey that stands for something else too
May 18 10:17:40 <smoku> tybollt, it's not universal. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ballmer%20Peak
May 18 10:19:04 <tybollt> :D
May 18 10:19:13 <dotblank> qt is awesome
May 18 10:19:30 <MohammadAG> QT sucks though :P
May 18 10:19:38 <dotblank> Nooo..
May 18 10:19:48 <dotblank> MohammadAG, you running debian
May 18 10:19:52 <ZogG> рфрфр
May 18 10:19:54 <ZogG> haha
May 18 10:19:55 <dotblank> or ubuntu
May 18 10:19:59 <ZogG> i found http://libquicktime.sourceforge.net/
May 18 10:20:03 <MohammadAG> same thing basically
May 18 10:20:12 <ZogG> the desing is so terrible
May 18 10:20:12 <lcuk> MohammadAG runs windows millenium, he thinks its uber cool
May 18 10:20:13 <smoku> qt is yawnsome
May 18 10:20:29 <ZogG> i prefer gtk+ on desktop
May 18 10:20:29 <MohammadAG> ^^^
May 18 10:20:34 <MohammadAG> lcuk, 3.01 actually
May 18 10:20:35 <MohammadAG> :P
May 18 10:20:42 <dotblank> cause I'll show him qt is awesome by giving him a preview deb of the grooveshark client i'm writing
May 18 10:20:46 <wall[e]> anyone have font for contact and calendar bigger?
May 18 10:20:46 <lcuk> oh you ugraded finally
May 18 10:20:48 <MohammadAG> but it's themed to look like Windows 7
May 18 10:21:12 <MohammadAG> it uses hildon-desktop too
May 18 10:21:15 <dotblank> http://encodable.com/cgi-bin/filechucker.cgi?action=landing&path=/&file=groove_0.0.1-1_amd64.deb
May 18 10:21:17 <wall[e]> correction: anyone know how to make font for contact and calendar bigger?
May 18 10:21:21 <MohammadAG> took me time to compile it for windows 3.01
May 18 10:22:16 <MohammadAG> dotblank, that isn't packaged correctly is it :P
May 18 10:22:33 <MohammadAG> oh nvm, one binary only
May 18 10:22:36 <MohammadAG> didn't see it
May 18 10:22:45 <ZogG> i hacked n900 and replaced hildon with aero
May 18 10:23:00 <dotblank> MohammadAG, its super beta.. plus this is the first program ive ever made
May 18 10:24:43 <wall[e]> is address book a part of modest?
May 18 10:24:51 <wall[e]> or it is a separated app?
May 18 10:24:57 <wall[e]> or where can i find it?
May 18 10:27:00 <SpeedEvil> I think it's closed
May 18 10:27:06 <SpeedEvil> ~closed
May 18 10:27:07 <infobot> [closed] http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages
May 18 10:28:27 <wall[e]> i don't see address book there
May 18 10:29:24 <wall[e]> er, i searched wrong window!
May 18 10:29:28 <SpeedEvil> I've never used it, dunno
May 18 10:29:41 <MohammadAG> dotblank, no source? :)
May 18 10:30:02 <wall[e]> i need to change font size
May 18 10:30:06 <dotblank> MohammadAG, if you want it i can give it too
May 18 10:32:16 <MohammadAG> was thinking about compiling it for the N900
May 18 10:32:34 <MohammadAG> looks like C++ though, wouldn't want to edit it
May 18 10:32:43 <dotblank> I already did
May 18 10:33:07 <MohammadAG> repo?
May 18 10:33:10 <dotblank> and it works well
May 18 10:33:16 <MohammadAG> bah, I don't even have the compiler working properly
May 18 10:33:19 <dotblank> its all on my hardrive
May 18 10:33:26 <MohammadAG> forgot that the SDK broke
May 18 10:33:49 <MohammadAG> sec gonna try to reboot
May 18 10:33:54 <dotblank> Does your n900 have the sdk libqt4.6.2?
May 18 10:36:51 <wall[e]> is address book a gtk app?
May 18 10:37:10 <wall[e]> what's the actual process?
May 18 10:37:13 <wall[e]> for contacts
May 18 10:42:48 <wall[e]> which directory keep .desktop file for installed app?
May 18 10:43:45 <lcuk> wall[e], /usr/share/applications/hildon
May 18 10:43:57 <wall[e]> lcuk, thanks
May 18 10:46:11 <wall[e]> i wonder how to start contacts from command line
May 18 10:46:21 <wall[e]> tried osso-addressbook but it didn't work
May 18 11:05:04 <wall[e]> any source for libcalendarui ?
May 18 11:09:03 <mintux> hi I bought nokia n900 2 hours ago. the first problem is I can not connect to my wireless access point (linsys) it protected with wep
May 18 11:09:11 <mintux> sorry wpa
May 18 11:09:38 <Corsac> n900 works pretty fine with wpa
May 18 11:10:03 <mintux> Corsac: wpa2 not different ?
May 18 11:10:51 <dotblank> im using mine with wpa 2
May 18 11:11:01 <pupnik> is two locks on the icon wpa?
May 18 11:11:13 <mintux> yes
May 18 11:11:13 <dotblank> I think so
May 18 11:11:19 <mintux> Corsac: my config is http://img6.tinypic.info/files/tda38p856boesa6u9zw6.png
May 18 11:11:50 <dotblank> mintux, that should work
May 18 11:12:10 <dotblank> unless you have mac filtering
May 18 11:12:26 <pupnik> are there some exotic forms of wpa we don't support?
May 18 11:12:32 <stskeepsie> mintux: what does it say on device?
May 18 11:12:54 <dotblank> it might be hidden ssid?
May 18 11:12:58 <mintux> dotblank: I clicked on wirless the question it asked is : push a button on wireless station to initiate easy setup process and tap Done . I have two button PIN method and Done
May 18 11:13:09 <mintux> stskeepsie:  ^^
May 18 11:13:16 <stskeepsie> mintux: ok, go add the network manually in settings->internet connections
May 18 11:13:22 <dotblank> don't use the easy pin button thingy
May 18 11:13:25 <dotblank> don't bother
May 18 11:13:30 <stskeepsie> the people who made the UI for 'easy' PIN, should be shot
May 18 11:13:35 <dotblank> really
May 18 11:13:35 <Corsac> I know that I had problems with some access points where the WEP was detected as Wifi protected setup compliant while it wasn't
May 18 11:14:07 <Corsac> stskeepsie: agreed, it sucks badly, and it doesn't work at all
May 18 11:14:18 <stskeepsie> as it doesn't allow you to use a simple passphrase in basic ui
May 18 11:15:02 <mintux> I think I found something in internet connections
May 18 11:15:20 <stskeepsie> mintux: i have same issue on my home network, so
May 18 11:17:27 <Sampppa> wall[e] you mean calendar-ui package?
May 18 11:19:11 <mintux> stskeepsie: where did your n900 make ?
May 18 11:19:30 <stskeepsie> what? :P
May 18 11:19:41 <edheldil> btw, there's error with n900, that sometimes it's unable to connect to wifi. Reboot helps
May 18 11:19:51 <mintux> what country made your phone ?
May 18 11:20:01 <Corsac> fi?
May 18 11:20:17 <Scelt> all assembled in korea
May 18 11:20:23 <Scelt> designed in Finland
May 18 11:20:31 <mintux> ok
May 18 11:21:20 <pupnik> i want to solder n810 speakers into n900
May 18 11:21:24 <pupnik> bet that wouldn't work, eh
May 18 11:24:21 <ZogG> www.engadget.com/2010/05/17/zte-packs-3g-maemo-into-its-v7-mid/ - another maemo tablet? =)))
May 18 11:24:54 <mintux> what is my root password?
May 18 11:26:15 <mintux> in terminal
May 18 11:27:09 <fraggeln> mintux: there is none :)
May 18 11:27:50 <mintux> but when I type sudo and enter it said your password is wrong
May 18 11:28:06 <fraggeln> mintux: sudo gainroot
May 18 11:28:42 <ZogG> mintux sudo is for password for user
May 18 11:28:57 <mintux> I open the browser but speed is too low . my wireless connected but it doesn't open yahoo yet . but on my notebook yahoo open fast why ?
May 18 11:28:57 <ZogG> if user in sudo group by using sudo you have to enter user password
May 18 11:29:11 <ZogG> mintux why
May 18 11:29:41 <mintux> why speed of connection on my phone is too low
May 18 11:30:35 <pupnik> no, that's javascript
May 18 11:30:43 <pupnik> turn javascript off on both computer and n900
May 18 11:30:49 <pupnik> then compare with a straight download
May 18 11:30:58 <pupnik> or flash
May 18 11:31:01 <pupnik> turn that off too
May 18 11:31:04 <mintux> ok I download a file now
May 18 11:31:52 <mintux> where is broswer setting to turn off javascript?
May 18 11:34:06 <mintux> each address I entered a rectangle go to end and back but page doesn't open. I can open just google ( with no logo google) . how can I check my speed connection ?
May 18 11:34:12 <mintux> it's too low
May 18 11:34:39 <ZogG> so valve is going to make games for linux? =)))
May 18 11:35:42 <ZogG> http://cl.ly/15Yu/content
May 18 11:37:19 <pupnik> configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables  .....
May 18 11:37:49 <fraggeln> pupnik: check the log-file, im guessing you lack a package or 2.
May 18 11:38:06 <pupnik> nah i flaboozled around with cflags
May 18 11:38:10 <pupnik> afaik
May 18 11:39:10 <pupnik> got it nm
May 18 11:39:33 <mintux> when I put su it said must be suid to work properly
May 18 11:40:08 <pupnik> ~becomeroot
May 18 11:40:09 <infobot> from memory, becomeroot is http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access
May 18 11:40:16 <summel> oO wtf
May 18 11:40:33 <summel> i tried to copy a .deb file via bletooth on my n900 and got an internal error
May 18 11:40:44 <summel> and now a .png file is missing from my memory card!
May 18 11:40:49 <summel> >:(
May 18 11:42:21 <summel> ;_: i hate internal error
May 18 11:43:17 <summel> it works fine when saving it to the built in memory rather then to the memory card... wtf? -_-
May 18 11:43:51 <pupnik> reseat card, try different card
May 18 11:43:57 <summel> the card is fine
May 18 11:44:12 <summel> if not then the n900 broke it -_-
May 18 11:45:33 <pupnik> summel: are you using proper nokia kernel and image?
May 18 11:45:38 <summel> yes
May 18 11:45:43 <summel> no devel stuff enabled
May 18 11:45:47 <summel> no testing stuff enabled
May 18 11:46:00 <mintux> I have problem with my connection . the speed of data is too slow . I think the internet is problem. but I have localhost here on my pc . when I open my ip of pc on n900 is take a long time to open it . what do you think? there is no javascript in index page of apache
May 18 11:46:10 <summel> and i know 2 other users personaly who also have problems with theyr card and i read from a lot more
May 18 11:46:32 <pupnik> mintux: i have sometimes had very slow connections to n900.  you can test different powersave settings
May 18 11:47:04 <mintux> pupnik: what do you mean by different powersave settings
May 18 11:47:50 <TomaszD> mintux, go to settings -> internet connections -> connections
May 18 11:48:02 <TomaszD> edit your access point
May 18 11:48:06 <mintux> and
May 18 11:48:27 <TomaszD> press next/forward until you get to the screen with advanced settings
May 18 11:48:35 <TomaszD> hit advanced
May 18 11:48:48 <TomaszD> tap the last tab, "Other"
May 18 11:49:06 <TomaszD> disable power saving
May 18 11:49:13 <mintux>  TomaszD: edit my wireless setting?
May 18 11:49:18 <mintux> what is cellular data?
May 18 11:49:33 <TomaszD> mintux, are you connected via your WLAN access point or just 3G?
May 18 11:49:56 <mintux> WLAn
May 18 11:50:15 <TomaszD> ok mintux, so where are you in the menus on the n900 now
May 18 11:50:25 <TomaszD> did you find the settings?
May 18 11:53:00 <TomaszD> go to the menu, tap Settings, then Internet connection in settings (the globe icon), then tap the Connections button, then select your access point from the list of available ones and tap Edit, then hit next, next, next until you see the Advanced button, tap Advanced, then you'll see three tabs, tap the last on (Other), and disable power saving there from the list
May 18 11:53:21 <TomaszD> *last one
May 18 11:53:24 <pupnik> good help TomaszD
May 18 11:54:06 <TomaszD> I had issues with power saving too, but I resolved them by rebooting my access point and the phone
May 18 11:54:18 <TomaszD> now it works fine with maximum power saving
May 18 11:54:58 <pupnik> depends on router here
May 18 11:55:21 <TomaszD> hopefully he restarted the connection lol
May 18 11:56:04 <alterego> So, unabill_yuk has been unbanned? Admittedly the past few days have been dull without him ^.^
May 18 12:05:58 <Corsac> is there a web interface to http://vcs.maemo.org svn?
May 18 12:06:50 <alterego> Corsac: that looks like a web interface to me :P
May 18 12:07:39 <Corsac> …
May 18 12:08:07 <Corsac> vcs.maemo.org redirects to /git/, and when you hit /svn/ you only have the pure svn interface, not any frontend
May 18 12:10:21 <X-Fade> Corsac: Go to the garage project page?
May 18 12:11:17 <Corsac> X-Fade: I don't think there's any svn frontend there
May 18 12:11:38 <Corsac> https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=885 for example
May 18 12:12:01 <X-Fade> Corsac: browse the ... :D
May 18 12:12:06 <X-Fade> Corsac: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=mafw
May 18 12:14:03 <DocScrutinizer> moo
May 18 12:14:17 <fraggeln> burp..
May 18 12:18:03 <hurbu> where i can find the optimized gcc's flag for n900 arm7?
May 18 12:18:37 <hurbu> i'm reading this http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/ARM-Options.html
May 18 12:18:42 <hurbu> but i cant see arm v7
May 18 12:18:44 <hurbu> :S
May 18 12:19:12 <hurbu> *armv7-l
May 18 12:19:18 <smoku> hurbu: http://github.com/smokku/uae4all/blob/master/Makefile.n900
May 18 12:20:13 <hurbu> cool, thx!
May 18 12:23:57 * RST38h yawns
May 18 12:50:34 <mintux> I connected with n900 to this chann
May 18 12:51:08 <mintux> With pidgin but yahoo doesn't connected
May 18 12:51:54 <mintux> Is it possible to full screen pidgin here?
May 18 12:53:33 <mintux>  
May 18 12:57:27 <pigeon> does anyone know where i could find the original desktop backgrounds images?
May 18 13:00:05 <pigeon> those ones that comes with the phone, like abstract, blur, digital nature, etc
May 18 13:02:05 <mintux> Oh
May 18 13:02:21 <mrglinux> mintux: test
May 18 13:03:32 <mrglinux> mintux: test
May 18 13:03:56 <mintux> Mintux worked
May 18 13:04:27 <mintux> Mrglinux worked
May 18 13:04:38 <mrglinux> ok
May 18 13:17:44 <javispedro> mooorning.
May 18 13:18:38 <stskeepsie> :(
May 18 13:18:49 <javispedro> hey
May 18 13:19:06 <DocScrutinizer> hey
May 18 13:19:15 <javispedro> evil driver isn't it
May 18 13:19:27 <javispedro> at least I'm pretty sure I'd get the triangles to render without using the usb cable trick
May 18 13:19:43 <javispedro> now that I have 2*700KiB more free dma memory
May 18 13:22:54 <mrglinux> what software do you suggest for gps (without need internet connection ) ?
May 18 13:23:36 <smoku> GPS does not need internet connection
May 18 13:23:46 <mrglinux> for maps?\
May 18 13:24:09 <smoku> oh, maps... you should have said so... ;P
May 18 13:24:39 <mrglinux> I would like download maps and use it in gps
May 18 13:25:19 <smoku> you can do it with ovi maps
May 18 13:25:30 <smoku> get maps downloader app
May 18 13:25:41 <mrglinux> hmm
May 18 13:25:42 <ShadowJK> well not *with* ovi maps
May 18 13:26:09 <ShadowJK> you either need to buy a PC and Windows to run the map downloader on the PC
May 18 13:26:30 <ShadowJK> or I think there is a way to do it with n900 too but I never read those threads on t.m.o
May 18 13:26:43 <mrglinux> so everyone use gps has INTERNET connection on their phone ?
May 18 13:27:00 <mrglinux> I need just roads not details
May 18 13:27:32 <ShadowJK> You don't need internet connection to use the gps, though internet connectivity makes the gps lock on to first fix faster
May 18 13:27:47 <stskeepsie> javispedro: i still have some ideas how we can deal with the driver.
May 18 13:27:54 <mrglinux> so what software do you suggest ?
May 18 13:28:22 <ShadowJK> If you bought your phone from Nokia Shop in your country, N900 would come preloaded with maps for your country in Ovi Maps
May 18 13:28:26 <javispedro> stskeepsie: btw, libomaplcd.so doesn't mmap /dev/omaplcd
May 18 13:28:41 <mrglinux>  ShadowJK: another question I compiled a simple c++ program in my pc. can I run it on n900?  it's http://mrg.name/a.out
May 18 13:28:45 <stskeepsie> no, i think it just mmaps with the mbx framework
May 18 13:29:01 <edheldil> ShadowJK:  actually, at least with the firmware I have, it does not lock w/o AGPS at all :(
May 18 13:29:01 <stskeepsie> ie, grabs framebuffer, etc
May 18 13:29:03 <javispedro> my next battery of tests will be running the test under strace and try to research any repeating pattern per frame
May 18 13:29:16 <javispedro> (n8x0 is charging atm)
May 18 13:29:19 <stskeepsie> javispedro: gdb a program with the debug symbol libs and break on Flip.
May 18 13:29:27 <mrglinux> I moved on my phone but when I run ./a.out it said you don't have premession
May 18 13:29:32 <stskeepsie> and omaplcd_ddc_process_vsyncflipUM
May 18 13:29:33 <ShadowJK> edheldil, well it's almost impossible to get unassisted lock with Ovi Maps, indeed
May 18 13:30:10 <ShadowJK> mrglinux, if you crosscompiled it for linux arm, sure..
May 18 13:30:32 <stskeepsie> javispedro: i'm willing to bet we'll see calls to that.
May 18 13:30:33 <RST38h> helo javispedro, ShadowJK
May 18 13:30:41 <javispedro> morning RST38h
May 18 13:30:52 <RST38h> ShadowJK: It is quite possible, by running GPS Diagnostic Program in background
May 18 13:30:58 <stskeepsie> javispedro: .. though, now i'm wondering if omaplcd is in mbxaccess binary, or loaded into a client?
May 18 13:31:02 <RST38h> ShadowJK: In fact, I would recommend that
May 18 13:31:07 <mrglinux> ShadowJK: I don't know what is that exactly . I write my source and compile with (g++ 2.cpp)
May 18 13:31:26 <javispedro> stskeepsie: from what I gathered, libomaplcd.so gets loaded because mbxaccess.ko tells it to do so
May 18 13:31:30 <ShadowJK> RST38h, sure, I know that, and that's why I qualified it with "with Ovi Maps"
May 18 13:31:39 <javispedro> and mbxaccess.ko gets the libomaplcd.so soname from omalcd.ko
May 18 13:32:06 <javispedro> (this is what I tried to explain in my older tmo post... ah, my beloved libomaplcd.so)
May 18 13:32:09 <ShadowJK> if wiki.maemo.org search wasn't useless I'd try find the entry on how to preload Ovi Maps with maps :(
May 18 13:32:27 <stskeepsie> yes, but i meant like, if it's linked into a client app or into mbxdaemon :)
May 18 13:32:33 <javispedro> ah
May 18 13:32:36 <javispedro> both
May 18 13:32:52 <javispedro> well, not sure about client apps
May 18 13:32:56 <javispedro> but sure about mbxdaemon :)
May 18 13:33:49 * ShadowJK bought sygic maps anyway..
May 18 13:34:52 <MiXu-> I bought the one from ovi store. Those cunning bastards left rotation feature out from the ovi store version.
May 18 13:35:11 <stskeepsie> MiXu-: just upgrade it
May 18 13:35:22 <ShadowJK> i don't think it's in mine either
May 18 13:35:28 <stskeepsie> javispedro: you know, we could probably get this crap running if we could hook Flip() in libomaplcd.ko
May 18 13:35:31 <stskeepsie> er
May 18 13:35:32 <MiXu-> stskeepsie: and pay more :P
May 18 13:35:34 <stskeepsie> so
May 18 13:35:45 <alterego> Wow telepathy is insane
May 18 13:35:47 <stskeepsie> MiXu-: i just added a repository and upgraded
May 18 13:35:53 <alterego> OR is it just because I'm using the dbus interface?
May 18 13:36:08 * javispedro is tempted of killing omaplcd and starting his own
May 18 13:36:10 <MiXu-> stskeepsie: Hmm. Which repo?
May 18 13:36:19 <javispedro> if only..
May 18 13:36:22 <stskeepsie> MiXu-: there's a repo.sygic.com or something
May 18 13:36:41 <stskeepsie> javispedro: i'm tempted to mail girish and ask if i can get access to libomaplcd.so source under NDA.
May 18 13:37:14 <javispedro> stskeepsie: i was googling certain keywords and seemingly there have been third-party display class drivers other than omaplcd
May 18 13:37:15 <javispedro> for the mbx
May 18 13:37:20 <javispedro> so there has to be official docs written.
May 18 13:37:33 <stskeepsie> actually, we see most of the structure in the kernel driver already
May 18 13:37:40 <RST38h> javis: no luck there
May 18 13:37:57 <javispedro> under NDA probably
May 18 13:38:18 <stskeepsie> omaplcd_ddc_process_vsyncflip is the entry point for frames from the MBX driver
May 18 13:38:18 <RST38h> even under nda...
May 18 13:38:34 <RST38h> unless it is using imGETECH DLLS
May 18 13:38:50 <javispedro> stskeepsie: yes, I wonder how its doing kernel -> userspace callback
May 18 13:39:01 <javispedro> well at this point I don't know where the dc jump table is
May 18 13:39:06 <javispedro> the _real_ one.
May 18 13:39:15 <stskeepsie> in libomaplcd.so
May 18 13:39:15 <stskeepsie> :P
May 18 13:39:22 <smoku> mrglinux: you may also download maps for ovi maps from http://symbian.clanteam.com/ with a browser
May 18 13:39:39 <javispedro> stskeepsie: no, it has to import it from somewhere in order to fill it
May 18 13:39:52 <javispedro> and whoever has the real memory for it allocated is the one that will be calling it.
May 18 13:39:55 <stskeepsie> javispedro: hm, well, libomaplcd.ko pulls down the huge DEVINFO thing
May 18 13:39:56 <mrglinux> ok
May 18 13:41:23 <RST38h> OMG, I no longer even see posts from people who joined tmo before Oct2009
May 18 13:41:43 <stskeepsie> javispedro: i wonder if we can inspect how psDevInfo->asVsyncFlips looks over tim
May 18 13:41:44 <stskeepsie> e
May 18 13:41:54 <stskeepsie> javispedro: any way to have vsyncflip being called regularly?
May 18 13:42:38 <javispedro> in the user mode library, no idea so far; in kernel I could just do it with a custom ioctl
May 18 13:44:11 <stskeepsie> do you only get the first frame or multiple frames?
May 18 13:44:17 <javispedro> multiple
May 18 13:44:28 <javispedro> btw
May 18 13:44:42 <javispedro> the other day found something interesting which confirms it's doing weird things with the xorg fb
May 18 13:45:05 <javispedro> I got the rendered surface over the task navigator menu,
May 18 13:45:42 <stskeepsie> heh
May 18 13:45:46 <javispedro> then a brief flick of half the egl window plus the previously overwritten part of the menu
May 18 13:46:22 <javispedro> it made me think that the buffer got swapped in between the gtk drawing -- might have been a placebo so don't really believe it :)
May 18 13:47:01 <stskeepsie> javispedro: i'm wondering if we can disassemble it with the debug symbols and just recompile it..
May 18 13:47:02 <mrglinux> bounce is not in application manager?
May 18 13:48:03 <stskeepsie> javispedro: i mean - -technically- we just need Flip() to call a ioctl
May 18 13:48:45 <javispedro> hmm
May 18 13:49:04 <javispedro> that would cause exactly the same behaviour as when I manually add the omapfb push after egl* calls
May 18 13:49:22 <javispedro> which was ... not pretty, as shown in the video (the random slowdowns, general slowness, leaks...)
May 18 13:49:25 <bergie> interesting, according to TechCrunch a typical iPhone app sells 101K copies. Pretty similar numbers as popular Maemo Downloads apps
May 18 13:49:25 <stskeepsie> well, yes
May 18 13:49:58 * javispedro is at least happy to know that I can noop the dma allocations... will help people currently with issues to load it
May 18 13:51:24 <stskeepsie> i wonder what happens if we 'just' get VsyncFlip() to be called often
May 18 13:51:30 <stskeepsie> and hence our kernel Flip()
May 18 13:51:46 * stskeepsie goes look at blizzard
May 18 13:55:41 <tybollt> stskeepsie: :-o ?
May 18 13:55:47 <stskeepsie> mm?
May 18 13:55:47 <tybollt> is it out now?
May 18 13:55:52 <stskeepsie> what is?
May 18 13:56:01 <tybollt> SC2?
May 18 13:56:05 <stskeepsie> sigh
May 18 13:56:06 <stskeepsie> :P
May 18 13:56:08 <tybollt> mejh
May 18 13:56:17 <javispedro> PR1.2
May 18 13:56:25 * javispedro needs a new workstation
May 18 13:56:36 <javispedro> this one is starting to feel too old
May 18 13:56:46 <stskeepsie> javispedro: on the other hand, the fact they don't switch to kernel with every single frame flip is good..
May 18 13:57:23 <tybollt> * stskeepsie goes look at blizzard
May 18 13:57:29 <javispedro> ah, no
May 18 13:57:31 <stskeepsie> tybollt: LCD controller chip in n8x0
May 18 13:57:31 <tybollt> ^^^^ SC2 ffs :D
May 18 13:57:39 <tybollt> stskeepsie: meh^2 :)
May 18 13:58:15 <javispedro> bah, it's deadly slow just because I'm compiling some C++ in the background
May 18 14:01:47 <tybollt> javispedro: seriously  - it out?
May 18 14:01:59 <javispedro> dunno
May 18 14:02:04 <javispedro> i'm more of an AoE guy.
May 18 14:02:11 <tybollt> 15:56 < javispedro> PR1.2
May 18 14:02:14 <tybollt> ffs! :)
May 18 14:02:16 <javispedro> no!
May 18 14:02:16 <stskeepsie> javispedro: in the case we actually were able to get libomaplcd source, what would we do with it?
May 18 14:02:31 <tybollt> javispedro: jeebus man, you gunna kill me :)
May 18 14:03:03 <javispedro> stskeepsie: other than fake deception feelings when we get to find its another stub/noop, I guess see if it's leaking like you assumed the kernel one was.
May 18 14:03:05 <tybollt> *bloopressure at a rate someone pat my back I'm going to pop*
May 18 14:03:26 <javispedro> stskeepsie: because of no isr being called
May 18 14:03:57 <stskeepsie> i wonder if anyone has a OMAP2 device we could test things on, ie, how it's 'supposed' to work
May 18 14:04:08 <javispedro> http://www.datasheetarchive.com/datasheet-pdf/076/DSAE0026055.html
May 18 14:04:14 <javispedro> best I could get, and it doesn't help much.
May 18 14:06:13 <javispedro> note also that the behaviour of the etire setup has changed after the "big split"
May 18 14:06:50 <javispedro> so maybe instead of an nda you could request girish to test if they work on any other sane omap2 platform at all =)
May 18 14:07:09 <tybollt> AoE btw... innit the microsoft game? :-|
May 18 14:07:36 <javispedro> (last time I asked myself this question -- for the usb host situation, I found out that no, it didn't work in any sane omap3 platform..)
May 18 14:08:53 <timeless_mbp> Age of Empires was an ms game
May 18 14:08:57 * timeless_mbp liked it too
May 18 14:09:05 <tybollt> my brother played it a lot
May 18 14:09:12 <tybollt> not my cup of tea
May 18 14:09:27 * GAN900 is really tired of waiting for XChat to reconnect when migrating connections.
May 18 14:09:39 * tybollt hands GAN a redbull
May 18 14:09:46 <GAN900> I lost all of my RTS skills over the years
May 18 14:09:59 <GAN900> SC2 is currently totally kicking my ass.
May 18 14:10:03 <tybollt> GAN900: True - as did I
May 18 14:10:16 * javispedro never had any to begin with, so.
May 18 14:10:32 <GAN900> It's such a ridiculously fast game
May 18 14:10:41 <GAN900> Faster than nearly any FPS
May 18 14:10:47 <tybollt> GAN900: still zergling rush that FTW
May 18 14:10:48 <tybollt> ?
May 18 14:10:56 <stskeepsie> javispedro: OK, so, we agree that what we need to do is 1) hack Flip in userspace -and- to send a window update for the particular area and 2) tie VsyncFlip to the completion of window updates?
May 18 14:11:10 <GAN900> Eh
May 18 14:11:18 <GAN900> Depends on how stupid people are
May 18 14:11:28 <tybollt> I'm plenty stupid - you'll be impressed ;)
May 18 14:11:29 <stskeepsie> hack flip in userspace -and- kernel space :P
May 18 14:11:54 <javispedro> wait, did not do the gdb test yet
May 18 14:11:58 <stskeepsie> k
May 18 14:11:59 <GAN900> Workers can beat it off a lot of the time.
May 18 14:12:06 <tybollt> ah olrite
May 18 14:12:28 <tybollt> I'd usually counter one attack w/ workers - not the next
May 18 14:12:45 <tybollt> I always prefered the protss ;)
May 18 14:13:42 <tybollt> "eCoach currently supports FRWD B600 and Zephyr HxM heart rate monitors."
May 18 14:13:44 <tybollt> uhm
May 18 14:13:53 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: What's this for?
May 18 14:19:18 <GAN900> How much are the eCoach heartbeat monitors these days?
May 18 14:20:09 <Sampppa> i think it is still close to 100euros
May 18 14:20:12 * GAN900 is going to get back into running this Summer.
May 18 14:20:19 <GAN900> Too much, then.
May 18 14:20:22 <Sampppa> Zephyr one
May 18 14:20:40 <Sampppa> yeah someone should start selling cheap HRM's :)
May 18 14:20:57 <ShadowJK> huh, how do I copy text from modest
May 18 14:21:13 <DocScrutinizer> honestly, 100bucks sounds way too much
May 18 14:21:38 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: xerox?
May 18 14:23:14 <javispedro> stskeepsie: ok, back to doing tests. for some reason, I cannot run the sample without having the usb cable at boot trick even with the noop memory allocations
May 18 14:23:37 <javispedro> it just bus errors
May 18 14:23:45 <javispedro> and kills mbxdaemon
May 18 14:23:56 <luke-jr> javispedro: can you send me the blobs?
May 18 14:24:04 <javispedro> they're public now iirc
May 18 14:24:25 <Disconnect> weird issue - my n900 stopped seeing my local wifi. sees the neighbors (including another wpa2) but not mine. not sure if its related to the power-user kernel or the pc connectivity (which screwed up half of everything, so it wouldn't be a surprise) .. any suggestions?
May 18 14:24:47 <javispedro> luke-jr: http://wiki.maemo.org/MBX_drivers_status
May 18 14:24:47 <tybollt>  /disconnect
May 18 14:24:49 <tybollt> hmm
May 18 14:24:50 <tybollt> :S
May 18 14:25:49 <luke-jr> javispedro: I don't want to email TI
May 18 14:26:07 <stskeepsie> too bad
May 18 14:26:18 <tybollt> considering (if you're old and w/ a heart condition) HRM (watch based ones) are free as medical shitz in .se, well...
May 18 14:26:40 <luke-jr> also, Portage isn't capable of automating that process
May 18 14:28:49 <mintux> my n900 hanged in sms page . desktop hanged and they key just vibrate the phone. I have access with ssh to phone
May 18 14:28:56 <mintux> how can I kill that?
May 18 14:29:05 <javispedro> luke-jr: you mostly have to pray to the goods to make them do anything either way. Seems only my n810 and fanoush's have them working in any half reasonsable state.
May 18 14:29:21 <luke-jr> what's the filename, at least?
May 18 14:29:22 <javispedro> *gods
May 18 14:29:27 <mintux> if i be in ubuntu do sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart
May 18 14:30:00 <luke-jr> javispedro: I haven't the slightest interest in making them do anything, anyway...
May 18 14:30:10 <luke-jr> just playing around for completeness
May 18 14:30:17 <mintux> it's my proccess http://codepad.org/5FXim27V
May 18 14:30:30 <mintux> help please . what should I do now?
May 18 14:30:52 <tybollt> mintux: reboot?
May 18 14:31:10 <mintux> can I restart desktop?
May 18 14:31:24 <tybollt> killall hildon-application-manager
May 18 14:32:00 <mintux> killall: hildon-application-manager: no process killed
May 18 14:33:00 <tybollt> ehr
May 18 14:33:05 <tybollt> killall hildon-desktop
May 18 14:33:06 <tybollt> sorry
May 18 14:34:09 <mintux> worked
May 18 14:34:14 <GAN900> Zephyr HxM is $99
May 18 14:34:20 <GAN900> Not so bad
May 18 14:35:25 <mintux> wheh I rotate my phone display doesn't rotate
May 18 14:35:32 <tybollt> GAN900: where? Mucho interested
May 18 14:35:54 <tybollt> mintux: it happens, try to reboot your phone
May 18 14:35:57 <GAN900> http://www.zephyr-technology.com/9600.0112.html
May 18 14:36:21 <GAN900> tybollt, haven't gotten around to looking anywhere else yet.
May 18 14:36:37 <tybollt> GAN900: all I need to know is whether they'll deliver to .se :)
May 18 14:36:57 <GAN900> tybollt, doubtful
May 18 14:37:17 <tybollt> mintux: Ehr wait - just what the hell are you expecting the device to do there?
May 18 14:37:31 <tybollt> you're not talking phone GUI on rotate are you?
May 18 14:37:40 <javispedro> stupid failures on initialization
May 18 14:38:25 <mintux> tybollt: when rotate it . the display changed to horizontal or vertical
May 18 14:38:34 <kpoman> hi all !
May 18 14:38:55 <kpoman> javispedro: I managed to partition and have debian on an ext3 partition of my minisd :) seems to work fine
May 18 14:39:15 <tybollt> kpoman: you're booting into debian? :-o
May 18 14:39:25 <tybollt> os isat easydebian?
May 18 14:39:46 <javispedro> stskeepsie: I still have to ponder where the pvr2d fits into all of this. it is one of the functions that appears most when randomly breaking using gdb
May 18 14:39:51 <kpoman> tybollt: easydebian chroot, but now on a real partition instead of image file
May 18 14:40:07 <tybollt> ok
May 18 14:40:26 <kpoman> tybollt: I was running out of space so I did that
May 18 14:40:52 <kpoman> resize2fs bugged and didnt want to really shrink the fake fs
May 18 14:40:57 <mintux> my phone has problem? I reboot it . but when i am in items or every where when I rotate the display doesn't rotate to vertically or horizontally
May 18 14:41:45 <mgedmin> wheee, I made hildon-desktop crash
May 18 14:41:55 <TriztFromWork> ~pr1.2
May 18 14:41:56 <infobot> well, pr1.2 is not here yet. Stop asking. Read the topic Just stop asking. Read the topic. AND STOP ASKING.  If you ask then release moves by another week, so do not ask.
May 18 14:41:59 <mgedmin> by quickly double-tapping the X icon of an incoming message in the task switcher
May 18 14:42:11 <kamui_> anyone using pr 1.2 and able to use the Conversations widget?
May 18 14:42:13 <tybollt> TriztFromWork: please, think of my bloodpressure
May 18 14:42:35 <TriztFromWork> has anyone made a wdiget lock application?
May 18 14:43:29 <TriztFromWork> I just tried to save some time, instead of asking and then get someone else to do the ~pr1.2 before kicking me, so I did it myself
May 18 14:46:11 <mintux> my root total is 227 meg and used 165 meg and only 58mb free. is it enough ?
May 18 14:46:17 <mintux> for installing softwares
May 18 14:46:51 <mintux> ?
May 18 14:47:08 <valdyn> mintux: yes
May 18 14:47:31 <javispedro> strace reveals no movement other than X11 per frame
May 18 14:48:08 <javispedro> and quite a lot of times() syscall which I have my suspicions about..
May 18 14:50:13 <TriztFromWork> 58mb free? damn, I haven't had anything near that for ages
May 18 14:54:09 <DocScrutinizer> lol
May 18 14:54:35 <DocScrutinizer> Nokia-N900-02-8:/home/user/i2c# df -h /
May 18 14:54:37 <DocScrutinizer> Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on
May 18 14:54:38 <DocScrutinizer> rootfs                  227.9M    198.1M     25.6M  89% /
May 18 14:54:45 <DocScrutinizer> and quite happy with that
May 18 14:55:17 <BCMM> talking of free space, is it possible to move /opt/ to an EXT3 formatted microSD?
May 18 14:55:29 <DocScrutinizer> basically yes
May 18 14:55:49 <tybollt> long as you don't fuck w/ the fat partition
May 18 14:55:52 <BCMM> (i don't need to yet, but it might be useful at some point)
May 18 14:55:54 <DocScrutinizer> but would seriously feckup your phone when removing uSD
May 18 14:56:00 <tybollt> since that'll screw your usb mass storage
May 18 14:56:20 <BCMM> yeah, i'm presuming that the SD doesn't move
May 18 14:56:34 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: also you need to mount ext3 uSD "manually"
May 18 14:56:34 <BCMM> is the FAT at the start or end of the device?
May 18 14:56:56 <DocScrutinizer> errr wut?
May 18 14:57:05 <BCMM> oh, it isn't on the same device as opt?
May 18 14:57:11 <DocScrutinizer> the FAT itself?
May 18 14:57:19 <BCMM> the FAT partition
May 18 14:57:22 <BCMM> i meant
May 18 14:57:32 <DocScrutinizer> which one
May 18 14:57:43 <DocScrutinizer> /home ?
May 18 14:57:59 <BCMM> i think i need to look at mount output for a bit
May 18 14:58:11 <DocScrutinizer> sounds like a plan
May 18 14:58:47 <BCMM> am i right in thinking that MyDocs is a vfat partition on the same "disk" as /home/?
May 18 14:59:00 * DocScrutinizer wonders why anybody would want to move /opt from eMMC to uSD :-o
May 18 14:59:09 <kpoman> guys, is it safe to do apt-get autoremove ?
May 18 14:59:11 <BCMM> one might run out of space :)
May 18 14:59:31 <DocScrutinizer> then resize the /home partition
May 18 14:59:43 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: and yes you're right
May 18 15:00:13 <javispedro> stskeepsie: interesting in the output of any gdb command? I've breaked on the client, which seemingly does not dlopened libomaplcd.so
May 18 15:00:30 <javispedro> it links with egl, srv_um, pvrX11WSEGL and pvr2d.so
May 18 15:00:30 <BCMM> since it is at the start of the device, the size of MyDocs is presumably flexible
May 18 15:00:40 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: ask SpeedEvil - he created a second ext-fs on a partition he took from the MyDocs FAT
May 18 15:01:56 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: anyway making a backup prior to changing partitioning is highly recommended, no other concerns with repartitioning other than that
May 18 15:02:27 <DocScrutinizer> ooops BCMM ^^^, sorry for highlight SpeedEvil
May 18 15:04:18 <johnsq> Hi
May 18 15:06:39 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: if you backup your MyDocs, cretate a tar archive of /home, then copy /home/opt and /home/user to uSD ext3 and umount && mount bind the /home and /opt, then you should be free to umount the whole eMMC and change partitions and makefs.???, then do the inverse copying/untarring to restore the content to the new partitions
May 18 15:08:04 <DocScrutinizer> in case anything fails you got the tar archive of /home and the MyDocs backup
May 18 15:12:27 <Zucca> I wonder could it be possible to use avfs to help file manager to browse trough copressed archives. I've done some kind of a hack on my laptop. I'm using pcmanfm and it can access archives via avfs.
May 18 15:17:12 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: check ruskie's HowTo for partitioning
May 18 15:26:17 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: I just tarred up mydocs onto /home - deleted mydocs -  recreated at size of 4G - and created a new partition in hte empty space
May 18 15:34:12 <Shoruken> looks like the internet died
May 18 15:34:35 <lcuk> Shoruken, only a bit of it
May 18 15:34:41 <Shoruken> yeah just you and me here
May 18 15:36:16 * SpeedEvil waves.
May 18 15:41:23 <Trewas> anybody know if/how direction of north can be locked in ovi maps? the map direction changing randomly makes it pretty much unusable while walking around
May 18 15:45:08 <timeless_mbp> Trewas: i believe it's a feature
May 18 15:45:15 <timeless_mbp> they want to make you dizzy :)
May 18 15:45:29 <andre__> Trewas: I think you can click the "North" icon and then it locks. let me try
May 18 15:47:01 <Trewas> maybe it's useful feature for a navigator in car, but when using it as a map when walking the north must always be up or it gets way too confusing
May 18 15:47:28 <Trewas> and IME it does not lock when changing the direction with north-icon
May 18 15:47:47 <andre__> Trewas, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8126#c6
May 18 15:47:48 <povbot> Bug 8126: OVI Maps spins when not Moving
May 18 15:49:13 <timeless_mbp> Trewas: as i said, they want to make you dizzy
May 18 15:49:41 <Trewas> andre__: thanks for the hint
May 18 15:55:15 <DocScrutinizer> GeneralAntilles: heh, there's actually an idea to "have a bot monitor IRC to calculate contributions/post for karma" - damn, and I thought you're kidding X-P
May 18 15:55:42 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: that idea has been around for quite some time
May 18 15:55:47 * SpeedEvil hopes that comes to fruition.
May 18 15:55:55 * SpeedEvil could do with owning 32% of nokia.
May 18 15:56:00 <Khertan> Hi !
May 18 15:56:02 <DocScrutinizer> GeneralAntilles: obvious problem: how to avoid spamers get the highest karma scores ;-D
May 18 15:56:21 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: there's quite a few people who "work behind the scenes", not being overly active on the mailing lists or TMO, but still bounce a lot of ideas on IRC
May 18 15:56:27 <crashanddie> hey Khertan, how's it going?
May 18 15:56:28 <Shoruken> you sound like a redditor
May 18 15:56:32 <Khertan> DocScrutinizer : use spamassassin
May 18 15:56:42 <javispedro> well, you send them a free device with a specially crafted version of jrbme --- booooom!
May 18 15:57:00 <crashanddie> Shoruken: who?
May 18 15:57:08 <Khertan> crashanddie: i m fine ... except that i didnt understand most of my pyqt problem
May 18 15:57:14 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: yep, I know a few of those ;-)
May 18 15:57:22 <Shoruken> crashanddie: DocScrutinizer does
May 18 15:57:43 * SpeedEvil sighs. 
May 18 15:57:46 <DocScrutinizer> ~scramble redditor
May 18 15:57:47 <infobot> rdietdor
May 18 15:57:48 <crashanddie> Shoruken: yeah, he used to be a cunt in a previous life too
May 18 15:57:50 <Khertan> crashanddie : and you ?
May 18 15:57:57 <Shoruken> lol
May 18 15:57:58 <SpeedEvil> My battery has become unreliable. It occasionally resets when jarred.
May 18 15:58:06 <SpeedEvil> I suspect tin/lead contamination of the contacts.
May 18 15:58:08 <javispedro> aim for cover!
May 18 15:58:09 <crashanddie> Khertan: not too bad. Link to code?
May 18 15:58:24 <Khertan> http://gitorious.org/khteditor
May 18 15:58:24 <Khertan> :)
May 18 15:58:34 <Khertan> kinetic scrolling not working
May 18 15:58:44 <crashanddie> Khertan: still looking for a job, started review of some PHP project. They were priding themselves of only having 6 unresolved bugs in their bugtracker, now they have just under a hundred
May 18 15:59:07 <Shoruken> lol
May 18 15:59:07 <Khertan> .)
May 18 15:59:12 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: talking gibberish?
May 18 15:59:17 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: ?
May 18 15:59:18 <DocScrutinizer> battery resets???
May 18 15:59:21 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: yes.
May 18 15:59:26 <crashanddie> Khertan: I was hoping for a more specific link ;)
May 18 15:59:47 <Khertan> oh ...2s
May 18 15:59:52 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: Some solder may have somehow gotten onto the battery pins. Which is upsetting the battery.
May 18 16:00:16 <Trewas> that nokia maps .js file is vvery nicely formatted at least when trying to modify it using n900, four lines and over 900k characters :)
May 18 16:00:19 <Shapeshifter> is there a simple cli xml parser available for maemo 5?
May 18 16:00:23 * DocScrutinizer wonders what might characterize an upset battery
May 18 16:00:27 <ZogG> lightpark can be nice alternative for flash for maemo
May 18 16:00:30 <ZogG> allievi.sssup.it/techblog/?p=260
May 18 16:00:41 <ZogG> lightspark*
May 18 16:00:48 <crashanddie> Trewas: ever heard of js optimisation?
May 18 16:00:58 <Khertan> http://gitorious.org/khteditor/khteditor/blobs/master/editor.py is it beter ?
May 18 16:01:05 <Khertan> the QTextEdit isn t fingerscrollable :(
May 18 16:01:29 <Trewas> crashanddie: I guess they don't expect it used to be as a configuration file...
May 18 16:01:34 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: also how the hell did you manage to get slder on battery contacts? :-o
May 18 16:02:01 <crashanddie> Khertan: did you see this: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-7607?page=com.googlecode.jira-suite-utilities%3Atransitions-summary-tabpanel
May 18 16:02:01 <Khertan> also i didnt understand too why when clicking on toolbar button action isn t triggered on : http://gitorious.org/khteditor/khteditor/blobs/master/window_editor.py
May 18 16:03:13 <Khertan> uh no didn t see it before thx for the link
May 18 16:03:39 <Khertan> ouch just see comment !
May 18 16:03:45 <DocScrutinizer> ~dict redditor
May 18 16:03:46 <Khertan> this is a wontfix
May 18 16:03:48 <infobot> could not find definition for redditor
May 18 16:03:53 <Khertan> it s sucks !
May 18 16:04:07 <Khertan> it s like for extensions hidden in dialog !
May 18 16:04:27 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: I was attempting to measure Rs - but found that my PSU wasn't up to it.
May 18 16:04:38 <DocScrutinizer> :-S
May 18 16:05:06 <Khertan> if it s really a won't fix it ll be time to stop learning qt ...
May 18 16:05:24 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: please elaborate on the symptoms you got now. I have no idea what "upset battery" means
May 18 16:05:47 <javispedro> anyone thinks ltrace might run on a n8x0? what kernel requeriments does it have?
May 18 16:06:05 <Khertan> ok ... bug report stats as invalid ...
May 18 16:06:06 <javispedro> oh, it's even in extras.
May 18 16:06:10 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: When the phone is tapped - it will sometimes shut down. Or if in charge mode, the charger reports 'no battery'
May 18 16:06:19 <crashanddie> Khertan: can you check if the object has that property available?
May 18 16:06:32 <Khertan> crashanddie : why does they take so stupid decision ?
May 18 16:06:45 <crashanddie> because they're finish'd
May 18 16:07:07 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: contact problems, not related to batery directly, more to the way the device "sees" the battery
May 18 16:07:22 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: It's the contacts.
May 18 16:07:27 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 18 16:07:31 <crashanddie> Khertan: use QTextEdit.dynamicPropertyNames() to get a list of properties
May 18 16:07:37 <crashanddie> Khertan: make sure that property exists
May 18 16:07:57 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: The contact resistance is also uncertain at times. - up to a sizable fraction of an ohm.
May 18 16:07:57 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: *carefully* remove all the solder to expose the hardened gold plating
May 18 16:08:08 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: yes - I know.
May 18 16:08:25 <Khertan> crashanddie : i m looking  thx
May 18 16:08:30 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: I was tired of screwing around and trying to improvise a clamp connection.
May 18 16:08:41 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: remember tin/Pb is a very "weak" metal (wrt to acid etc) and gold quite innert
May 18 16:09:16 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: Indeed - but I'm not putting acid near it, for obvious reasons.
May 18 16:09:24 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, yeah
May 18 16:09:42 <DocScrutinizer> so I'd try with 4000 sandpaper
May 18 16:10:40 <crashanddie> Khertan: why are you not passing the parent to QTextEdit? QtGui.QTextEdit.__init__(self, parent)
May 18 16:10:41 <Khertan> crashanddie : [PyQt4.QtCore.QByteArray('kineticScroller')]
May 18 16:11:19 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: but first use desolering wick
May 18 16:11:36 <SpeedEvil> yes.
May 18 16:12:12 <DocScrutinizer> then "pollish" away the remaining Sn/Pb until the shiny gold shows
May 18 16:12:32 <SpeedEvil> Sounds plausible.
May 18 16:13:15 <DocScrutinizer> I'd hope for Pb and Sn being less hard than hardened gold plating, but wouldn't rely on it
May 18 16:13:40 <DocScrutinizer> so be *very* carefull not to end with bare blank steel contacts
May 18 16:13:47 <Khertan> crashanddie:don t know why :)
May 18 16:14:39 <crashanddie> Khertan: and why in keyPressEvent() are you calling QtGui.QTextEdit.keyPressEvent(self, e) rather than self.keyPressEvent(self, e) ?
May 18 16:15:00 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: btw thanks for the warning. I'd fall into same pitfall
May 18 16:15:23 <DocScrutinizer> probably
May 18 16:15:52 <SpeedEvil> gold plating partially dissolved by solder
May 18 16:16:26 <Khertan> hum because self.keyPressEvent is already trap in this method ...
May 18 16:16:47 <Khertan> but hum maybe not a good idea after all
May 18 16:17:10 <crashanddie> Khertan: hmm, true
May 18 16:17:12 <Khertan> this app look more as a prototype currently
May 18 16:17:59 <Khertan> as you can see there is a start of plugin implementation system
May 18 16:18:05 <Khertan> many commented tries :)
May 18 16:18:15 <Khertan> i m just beginning learning qt
May 18 16:18:15 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: dammit
May 18 16:18:16 <lcuk> Khertan, can you do kinetics and editing on the same textbox?
May 18 16:18:18 <Khertan> :(
May 18 16:18:33 <lcuk> whenever i tried the actions would get muddy
May 18 16:18:51 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: re-galvanize ?
May 18 16:18:53 <Khertan> lcuk : on qt4.5 yes ... on 4.6 no : seems they call that a feature ... :(
May 18 16:18:54 <lcuk> so it would try and select when i wanted to pan and pan when i wanted to select (ages ago in liqbase) so i dropped it
May 18 16:19:13 <Khertan> http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-7607?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel
May 18 16:19:33 <Khertan> lcuk : i like the way it s done in xterm
May 18 16:19:47 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: I was planning on trying removing as much as I could easily, then add a little grease to help prevent fretting.
May 18 16:19:55 <Khertan> or like in pygtkeditor ... just use shift arrow
May 18 16:19:57 <Khertan> but here seems there is now way
May 18 16:20:14 <lcuk> Khertan, switching modes sure
May 18 16:20:28 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: or... hmmm... apply good liquid flux, dry, rub on several layers flat gold, heat
May 18 16:20:49 <Khertan> yep but it s seems that switching is not possible for editable text
May 18 16:20:49 <Khertan> :(
May 18 16:21:11 <lcuk> Khertan, switch between showing data in QTextBrowser and QTextArea
May 18 16:21:20 <lcuk> browser is kinetic
May 18 16:21:23 <lcuk> area isnt
May 18 16:21:29 <lcuk> one is editable, the other not
May 18 16:21:47 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: probably scratch the flux part
May 18 16:21:57 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: just clean it like mad
May 18 16:22:03 <lcuk> of course a flag to allow that just on the fly would be just as effective
May 18 16:22:28 <Khertan> lcuk : but i like scrolling while editing
May 18 16:22:28 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: then apply those thin flat gold paper thingies - dunno the correct name
May 18 16:22:46 <DocScrutinizer> heat to maybe 500°C
May 18 16:22:54 <Khertan> why does they doesn t just dev choice what they want to do
May 18 16:22:56 <DocScrutinizer> to fritt it to the Sn/Pb
May 18 16:22:57 <Khertan> this sucks
May 18 16:23:08 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: gilding
May 18 16:23:10 <lcuk> rephrase Khertan
May 18 16:23:13 <Khertan> this is like hidding extension of file in dialog
May 18 16:23:18 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: aah thanks
May 18 16:23:22 <Khertan> for some purpose it usefull
May 18 16:23:32 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: I'll try more normal measures first
May 18 16:23:41 <crashanddie> Khertan: he wants to be able to scroll on the fly, not have to switch modes manually
May 18 16:23:53 <crashanddie> err, lcuk ^
May 18 16:23:56 <lcuk> how do you select if you are also scrolling?
May 18 16:24:02 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: I also thought about a good Pb free silver solder
May 18 16:24:20 <Khertan> i mean : they should let dev choice if they want scrollable or selecting in editable qtextedit
May 18 16:24:28 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: I'm unsure what ones don't form gold intermetallics.
May 18 16:24:39 <lcuk> Khertan, override the methodthen
May 18 16:24:42 <lcuk> its not rocket science
May 18 16:24:43 <andemoni> is there a way to get higher bpp than the default 16 in an app running on the n900?
May 18 16:24:50 <Khertan> rewrite paintevent ?
May 18 16:24:53 <lcuk> but i mean other people
May 18 16:25:01 <lcuk> kinetics arent in paint
May 18 16:25:03 <lcuk> they are mouse events
May 18 16:25:10 <mintux> pidgin doesn't connect to yahoo why ?
May 18 16:25:11 <lcuk> with a timer or something
May 18 16:25:14 * lcuk waves hands
May 18 16:25:17 <Khertan> if i use a framework it s not for rewritting everythings myself
May 18 16:25:18 <javispedro> andemoni: it's not easy, and we do not know if the actual display is capable of more than 16bpp
May 18 16:25:36 <lcuk> Khertan, no but you want some behaviour that doesnt happen now
May 18 16:25:47 <lcuk> so the way to achieve that in an open framework is to make it do it
May 18 16:25:50 <andemoni> currently gradients look completely rubbish on the n900 by default, so any suggestions (even if it's a hacky one) are appreciated
May 18 16:25:50 * Khertan will probably avoid qt for future dev
May 18 16:25:53 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: honestly that's a real bummer. I'd bite my own arse
May 18 16:26:07 <lcuk> subclass the textbox make some new slots and bob is metaphorically your relative
May 18 16:26:28 <andemoni> if it's physically not possible due to the display's limitations then that's it, i suppose :)
May 18 16:26:31 <Khertan> lcuk : it was doing it in qt 4.5
May 18 16:26:52 <Khertan> but just to follow stupid ui guideline they remove it
May 18 16:27:32 <andemoni> (just to clarify: i'm not using the compositor as the app's running fullscreen)
May 18 16:27:36 <Khertan> so it let me think they will take other stupid decision in the future
May 18 16:27:57 <lcuk> so make a nice writeup about how nice it was in 4.5 and that you would like to find a way to retain that behaviour - even if none default behind a flag somewhere
May 18 16:28:07 <lcuk> or bitch at them for making decisions
May 18 16:28:17 <lcuk> whichever you think will make it work for you
May 18 16:28:18 <javispedro> andemoni: panel is ACX565AKM; with unknown specs
May 18 16:28:37 <andemoni> lcuk: disable the kinetic scroll component yourself then?
May 18 16:28:39 <mintux> what messenger should I use for yahoo
May 18 16:28:48 <lcuk> andemoni, its the other way round
May 18 16:29:02 <lcuk> on the textview for qt 4.6 it does not kinetic pan by default
May 18 16:29:06 <crashanddie> mintux: depends, do you need overnight or is two-three business day acceptable?
May 18 16:29:10 <lcuk> because the user selection comes first i guess
May 18 16:29:26 <mintux> crashanddie: second is better
May 18 16:29:30 <andemoni> indeed it does not, but there's that example on the maemo5 platform notes page that enables it, as was referenced before
May 18 16:29:41 <crashanddie> mintux: just go with your local post express package then
May 18 16:29:58 <mintux> can I find in app manger?
May 18 16:30:11 <lcuk> andemoni, would you care to show Khertan where this said example is please.
May 18 16:30:33 <lcuk> so he can continue developing happily without getting anxious.
May 18 16:30:34 <Khertan> lcuk : in qt4.5 it was disable by default .. but can be activated by an attribute
May 18 16:31:04 <andemoni> certainly: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/maemo5-textedit.html
May 18 16:31:09 <Khertan> on qt 4.6 it disabled .... attribute do nothing and doesn t seems to be a bug but a feature : http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-7607?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel
May 18 16:31:12 <andemoni> if that's what you wanted
May 18 16:31:27 <mintux> I know pidgin must be update . but question can I install pidgin on pidgin website on my n900"
May 18 16:31:28 <mintux> ?
May 18 16:31:58 <crashanddie> mintux: install Pidgin protocols for Conversations and Contacts from the app manager
May 18 16:32:32 <Khertan> andemoni : documentation seems outdated
May 18 16:32:59 <andemoni> on what part?
May 18 16:33:26 <frals> hmm
May 18 16:33:38 <frals> to promote fmms to extras or not to promote before pr1.2 is the question
May 18 16:34:42 <Khertan> ". This allows the user to use finger scrolling to scroll the entire QScrollArea, independend on whether he scrolls on the text edit or some other control."
May 18 16:36:11 <Khertan> andemoni : but maybe i m not doing thing the right way ... i m not a qt expert
May 18 16:36:49 <Khertan> http://gitorious.org/khteditor/ source here
May 18 16:37:37 <DocScrutinizer51> frals: pr1.2?? :-o
May 18 16:39:32 <DocScrutinizer51> frals: why link a nice app like fmms to a vaporware like 1.2? That's not fair :-P
May 18 16:44:23 <frals> DocScrutinizer: hehe, well, pr1.2 brings the mms settings to the phone, otherwise the user has to config it himself... and experience has taught me that users can not be trusted to do that :(
May 18 16:44:41 * javispedro envisions the tmo chaos that would ensue
May 18 16:44:53 <DocScrutinizer51> never trust the user
May 18 16:45:22 <mikki-kun> anybody an idea why certain emails lack utf8?
May 18 16:45:26 <Shoruken> this is 2nd time this has happened today, my phone just plays whatever song is on media player instead of ringing
May 18 16:45:50 <mikki-kun> i can see my mails just fine when i login to gmail but as soon as they are downloaded i can't see any äöü anymore
May 18 16:45:55 <DocScrutinizer51> what about just popping up a modal requester for the settings in postinstall?
May 18 16:46:07 <DocScrutinizer51> frals: ^
May 18 16:46:39 <DocScrutinizer51> kinda like ssh asks for root password
May 18 16:47:02 <X-Fade> That should not be done on install.
May 18 16:47:07 <X-Fade> That is a first run question.
May 18 16:47:37 <X-Fade> Anyway, postinstall modals are evil.
May 18 16:47:42 <DocScrutinizer51> X-Fade: when is fist-run of a daemon?
May 18 16:47:57 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer51: For sshd it is ok, but fmms is a gui app.
May 18 16:48:25 <X-Fade> Although when you flash your device a lot, like me. All modals during re-install are *evil*
May 18 16:48:43 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm, can't see why it isn't siutable for fmms
May 18 16:48:56 <mikki-kun> X-Fade: it's never ok to make a rootlogin via SSH available imo
May 18 16:48:59 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer51: The first time you run it, it will pop up anyway ;)
May 18 16:49:44 <GAN900> X-Fade, quit installing leaked firmwares. :P
May 18 16:50:02 <X-Fade> GAN900: Heh, they aren't leaked ;)
May 18 16:50:16 <GAN900> Yeah, so YOU claim.
May 18 16:51:11 <X-Fade> ;)
May 18 16:52:07 * andrewfblack wonders in
May 18 16:52:32 <dmj726> Has anyone gotten the sdk working in lucid?
May 18 16:53:23 <ManoftheSea> wanders?
May 18 16:55:27 <andre__> dmj726, what exactly does not work for you?
May 18 16:55:48 <dmj726> It seems to be failing at installing scratchbox.
May 18 16:58:21 <dmj726> http://pastebin.com/rmqPk6nj
May 18 16:58:30 <dmj726> there's the relevant part of the log file.
May 18 17:00:04 <trumee> anybody using pptp?
May 18 17:00:29 <trumee> it works fine with wifi but doesnt work with 3g.
May 18 17:00:40 <GAN900> andre__, how's 3.4 coming along?
May 18 17:01:18 <trumee> guess it might be this bug, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52986
May 18 17:01:36 <trumee> any experts on routing?
May 18 17:02:26 <trumee> i cant seem to work out how route works :(
May 18 17:04:16 <ManoftheSea> what about route?
May 18 17:04:40 <ManoftheSea> Like, route add default gateway [gw-addr] iface [interface]
May 18 17:04:44 <dmj726_n900> opps...just killed x
May 18 17:05:24 <trumee> ManoftheSea: yup, i dont know what routes to add.
May 18 17:06:02 <trumee> ManoftheSea: i thought i added the correct route but then my ping stopped working
May 18 17:06:38 <ManoftheSea> then you probably didn't add the correct route.
May 18 17:06:44 <ManoftheSea> OR the gateway doesn't pass ping
May 18 17:07:00 <ManoftheSea> Is your gateway forwarding traffic?
May 18 17:07:06 <DocScrutinizer51> hah, gpsjinni update fixed insane 'speed' display
May 18 17:07:18 <trumee> ManoftheSea: with wifi pptp works fine, but with 3g it doesnt
May 18 17:07:18 <ManoftheSea> cool
May 18 17:07:37 <ManoftheSea> cool is for DocScrutinizer51
May 18 17:07:48 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer51 ?
May 18 17:07:51 <lcuk> too fast?
May 18 17:07:55 <ManoftheSea> trumee: I don't know if I can help about the tunnel.
May 18 17:08:06 <DocScrutinizer51> err?
May 18 17:08:09 <trumee> ManoftheSea: i dont have to touch route with wifi pptp but need to mess iwith it with 3g
May 18 17:08:28 <ManoftheSea> well, it may be related to the bug you posted.
May 18 17:08:47 <trumee> ManoftheSea: yes, i think it is indeed.
May 18 17:09:22 <trumee> i did use the add_default_route.sh listed in the bug report but that didnt help
May 18 17:10:01 <trumee> not sure if that add_default_route should be used before or after setting up vpn!
May 18 17:10:04 <ManoftheSea> can you PM me your route table on wifi and then on 3G, with the pptp up?
May 18 17:10:16 <ManoftheSea> PM because it's spam to the rest of the room.
May 18 17:10:31 <trumee> yup. just a sec. will login into a proper computer
May 18 17:10:52 <ManoftheSea> I can't promise anything.
May 18 17:11:49 <andre__> GAN900: best to ask Karsten. I don't/can't track it
May 18 17:12:06 <GAN900> andre__, mmm
May 18 17:32:25 <wutr> Hi, I'm new to maemo. Does anyone know some good reading material about using it and maybe some recommended tweaks / apps?
May 18 17:34:01 <andre__> wutr, I assume you're a user? :)
May 18 17:34:15 <andre__> maybe check talk.maemo.org. or go to http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/ and take a look
May 18 17:35:30 <wutr> Uh, I'm somewhat experienced with linux as well
May 18 17:35:43 <wutr> if that's what you mean?
May 18 17:36:22 <ManoftheSea> wutr, what would you want for tweaks?
May 18 17:36:29 <ManoftheSea> Do you mean to make it fast, useable?
May 18 17:36:34 <wutr> useable
May 18 17:36:38 <t-tan> has anybody already tried this http://metalab.at/wiki/Hack-A-N900/Dump_and_Restore_rootfs_Image ?
May 18 17:36:39 <wutr> more usable
May 18 17:36:52 <ManoftheSea> As for apps... enable extras-testing and look through it.
May 18 17:37:00 <andre__> errrm.
May 18 17:37:15 <andre__> ManoftheSea, no?
May 18 17:37:31 <andre__> if at all, please first read the big warning at the top of http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing .
May 18 17:37:35 <ManoftheSea> andre__: er, sorry.
May 18 17:37:39 <ManoftheSea> I meant just extras.
May 18 17:37:43 <andre__> ah. okay :)
May 18 17:37:48 <ManoftheSea> he's right, testing is not for "useable"
May 18 17:37:53 <wutr> haha
May 18 17:37:57 <ManoftheSea> It's for "slightly more stable than unstable"
May 18 17:38:58 <wutr> https://wiki.maemo.org/Extras ?
May 18 17:39:30 <ManoftheSea> yeah, that's the community "app-store".
May 18 17:39:58 <wutr> sweet,
May 18 17:42:01 <wutr> extras-testing seems to be useful as well..
May 18 17:42:52 <wutr> maybe a stupid question, but I receive my N900 tomorrow, is reflashing the same as a "hard reset" I used to perform on S60 devices?
May 18 17:42:57 <andre__> and you might want to check Ovi Store too (well, if it works). some stuff in there is for free and can be fun (e.g. Bounce)
May 18 17:43:22 <SpeedEvil> no
May 18 17:43:45 <ManoftheSea> pff.  All the coolest games are available by emulation.
May 18 17:43:45 <SpeedEvil> It wipes all applications, but does not touch files in your home directory
May 18 17:43:54 <SpeedEvil> this is where stuff like contacts are stored
May 18 17:44:01 <ManoftheSea> c64, amiga, nes, snes, genesis, master system, etc
May 18 17:44:18 <GAN900> wutr, http://wiki.maemo.org
May 18 17:44:23 <SpeedEvil> It wipes the filesystem of / to be specific - 256M device - /home is 2G
May 18 17:44:35 <SpeedEvil> ~flashing
May 18 17:44:36 <infobot> i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
May 18 17:45:37 <wutr> was browsing the wiki a bit indeed, but I manage to end up at really advanced topics all the time
May 18 17:46:12 <ManoftheSea> wutr, what are you looking for info on/
May 18 17:46:51 <ManoftheSea> wutr: as andre__ said, extras-testing is just for slightly more stable apps.  They may not crash your phone, but they may not 'work'
May 18 17:47:45 <wutr> actually everything I can find about maemo, but I have to start somewhere, right?
May 18 17:48:49 <ManoftheSea> heh.
May 18 17:48:57 <ManoftheSea> Yeah, watching this room is fun then, too.
May 18 17:49:11 <ManoftheSea> I believe most people that talk regularly are active developers for maemo
May 18 17:49:20 <wutr> thats why I dug up the old mIRC ;)
May 18 17:49:27 <ManoftheSea> luke-jr, DocScrutinizer51 can probably elaborate on that.
May 18 17:49:38 <wutr> And you?
May 18 17:49:54 <DocScrutinizer51> not now in a hurry ttyl
May 18 17:49:55 <ManoftheSea> I'd like to, but am too lazy to really learn.
May 18 17:50:06 <wutr> :/
May 18 17:50:07 <ManoftheSea> learn by doing, I mean.
May 18 17:50:20 <wutr> that's how it's done..
May 18 17:50:30 <wutr> might need some basic skills though
May 18 17:50:53 <ManoftheSea> Like, I learned about signals and slots in college... but haven't done it in a while.
May 18 17:51:04 <kpoman> hey to all ! can someone help me get this http://maemo.org/packages/view/libsdl-ttf2.0-dev/ on my scratchbox ?
May 18 17:51:33 <Stskeeps> dneary: what meeting tonight?
May 18 17:51:45 <dneary> Stskeeps, TSG
May 18 17:51:49 <Stskeeps> it's tuesday
May 18 17:52:07 <dneary> http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Meeting_IRC_Schedule
May 18 17:52:13 <dneary> Yes. It's Tuesday
May 18 17:52:28 <Stskeeps> 19th is tomorrow ;)
May 18 17:52:45 <dneary> But tomorrow is Wednesday
May 18 17:52:55 <Stskeeps> yes, and tsg meetings are on wednesdays
May 18 17:53:07 <Stskeeps> ah
May 18 17:53:15 <wutr> @ManoftheSea don't know anything about that, sadly..  but I probably will discover it while learning Qt
May 18 17:53:16 <dneary> Stskeeps, I got it :)
May 18 17:53:19 <Stskeeps> i got doubting if it was -really- tuesday today
May 18 17:53:20 <Stskeeps> :P
May 18 17:53:36 <wutr> IRC skills are a bit dusty as well...
May 18 17:53:52 <GAN900> wutr, http://planet.maemo.org
May 18 17:53:57 <dneary> Since "Yes, it's Tuesday" I've been pulling the mickey
May 18 17:53:59 <ManoftheSea> wutr...  If I remember right...  Qt will split your app into threads.  One does the GUI, another does "real work"
May 18 17:54:00 <GAN900> wutr, http://mwkn.net too
May 18 17:54:08 <dneary> Late on announcing the brainstorm
May 18 17:54:13 <dneary> Day bled out on me
May 18 17:54:17 <ManoftheSea> So your GUI components will emit signals, like "clicked"
May 18 17:54:27 <pupnik_> Tue May 18 20:54:25 GMT-3 2010
May 18 17:54:32 <pupnik_> whoah!
May 18 17:54:33 <ManoftheSea> While your "do stuff" classes will have slots
May 18 17:55:07 <ManoftheSea> you connect them together, then in your app when the "Go" button is clicked, it emits clicked(), and anything attached acts on it.
May 18 17:55:19 <andemoni> qt will do no such thing
May 18 17:55:33 <andemoni> split your application automatically into threads, i mean
May 18 17:55:34 <ManoftheSea> hmm.  Then your turn.
May 18 17:55:37 <wutr> Like events and there handlers in C#?
May 18 17:55:44 <ManoftheSea> wutr: I believe it's similar
May 18 17:55:54 <ManoftheSea> As soon as anyone challenges, I'll defer to them.
May 18 17:56:36 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: ?
May 18 17:56:38 <wutr> No problem, that's how we keep learning
May 18 17:57:19 <ManoftheSea> But yes, Qt, GTK+, or Visual Studio are all going to have similar ways of taking GUI interaction to real work-performing functions
May 18 17:58:14 <dneary> Jaffa, GAN900, Where do you guys want the brainstorm? Community or Brainstorm?
May 18 17:58:42 <kpoman> do someone know how can I get diablo extras free armel on a scratch box ?
May 18 17:58:48 <wutr> I read about mono for maemo somewhere, but C++ will do the job way better right?
May 18 17:59:09 <ManoftheSea> um...
May 18 17:59:16 <tripzero> wutr, depends on the job.  C++ is notably faster than mono
May 18 17:59:25 <tripzero> but that depends on the coder
May 18 18:00:02 <wutr> GAN900, thanks for the links
May 18 18:00:34 <wutr> for end users c++ is more convenient I think. Unless they all have mono installed somehow
May 18 18:04:33 <pupnik_> does maemo autobuilder ignore or honor cflags i specify in debian/rules?
May 18 18:07:39 <trumee> ManoftheSea: posted the solution here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=664577#post664577
May 18 18:08:13 <trumee> ManoftheSea: vpn over 3g is working well now.
May 18 18:08:29 <dneary> pupnik_, No idea - do you have build logs to checkN
May 18 18:08:40 <wutr> SpeedEvil, you told me about flashing leaving the home directory etc. as it is, is there a way to really reset the device?
May 18 18:09:34 <jacekowski> wutr: do full flash
May 18 18:09:45 <jacekowski> wutr: not just root
May 18 18:09:50 <jacekowski> wutr: but emmc as well
May 18 18:11:06 <wutr> So that's flashing the firmware again + emmc
May 18 18:11:36 <jacekowski> well, just emmc would do the job
May 18 18:12:03 <pupnik_> well guys be real careful of those n900 speakers
May 18 18:12:05 <jacekowski> or mhm
May 18 18:12:07 <jacekowski> it's not emmc
May 18 18:12:08 <jacekowski> anyways
May 18 18:12:31 <wutr> *reading the flashing wiki*
May 18 18:12:33 <jacekowski> http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900
May 18 18:13:27 <jacekowski> you have to flash rootfs and emmc
May 18 18:15:02 <wutr> allright..
May 18 18:15:15 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: I was asking earlier about what you were doing WRT graphics - if that's why you pinged
May 18 18:15:42 <jacekowski> 16:13 < SpeedEvil> jacekowski: What's this for?
May 18 18:16:23 <jacekowski> that's why i pinged
May 18 18:19:42 <ManoftheSea> trumee: good to hear it.  Cool solution too.
May 18 18:27:00 <wutr> If I understand correctly, for N900 you don't have to flash eMMC
May 18 18:27:26 <kalikiana> normally you don't need to
May 18 18:27:52 <kalikiana> only if you have some testing firmware such as by receiving a preproduction device
May 18 18:28:27 <wutr> Will the stuff in mydocs get removed too then?
May 18 18:28:30 <wutr> euh
May 18 18:28:38 <wutr> without flashing emmc
May 18 18:28:40 <wutr> ?
May 18 18:31:53 <SpeedEvil> It is a pity there is no simple easy one-step 'I want this phone the way it was when it left the factory, yes really.' operation.
May 18 18:32:28 <wutr> Haha thanks for telling me, that was what I was trying to find out
May 18 18:33:28 <Disconnect> SpeedEvil: thats one nice (and occasionally frustrating) thing about android - the partitioning is a mess, but the system partition is (in normal use) immutable so you can tell teh bootloader or the recovery initrd to wipe out the user data partition and restore it to a "firmware fresh" image (firmware revs write to the system part, so you can't revert the os, just wipe your data)
May 18 18:34:34 <Disconnect> frustrating because thats why no-lie almost half the available flash is dedicated to "/cache" which isn't used by much outside of updates. need to be able to download and apply an update when all the writable parts are full.
May 18 18:36:51 <wutr> but, flashing firmware + emmc on N900 will return it to "factory fresh"?
May 18 18:37:04 <iluminator101> How do i add video codecs in n900
May 18 18:37:23 <lcuk> wutr, yes
May 18 18:37:29 <lcuk> the overwrites all the partitions
May 18 18:37:36 <lcuk> NO user data remains
May 18 18:37:39 <lcuk> no photos etc
May 18 18:37:45 <wutr> cheeeck. thank you :)
May 18 18:37:49 <lcuk> also, remove the other mmc
May 18 18:38:02 <lcuk> because no flashing or whatnot touched it
May 18 18:38:03 <zaheerm> iluminator101, which codec do you want?
May 18 18:38:15 <iluminator101> wmv ...lol
May 18 18:38:32 <ManoftheSea> uh, isn't that a container?
May 18 18:38:44 <zaheerm> wmv is a codec, asf is a container
May 18 18:38:44 <iluminator101> all w32 codecs like in debian
May 18 18:38:47 * ManoftheSea realizes he just spoke in ignorance.
May 18 18:38:50 <ManoftheSea> sorry everyone.
May 18 18:39:06 <zaheerm> iluminator101, in app manager install extra decoders support
May 18 18:39:30 <wutr> lcuk, let me first find out how to flash emmc before finding out what the "other" mmc is
May 18 18:39:41 <ManoftheSea> do you mean the removeable one?
May 18 18:39:44 <SpeedEvil> wutr: the one in the little holder.
May 18 18:39:55 <ManoftheSea> wutr, you'd have to add it yourself.
May 18 18:40:02 <lcuk> wutr, the one you have to plug in
May 18 18:40:07 <lcuk> under the battery cover thingy
May 18 18:40:09 <SpeedEvil> ManoftheSea: Or have a minion do so.
May 18 18:40:18 <ManoftheSea> SpeedEvil: well yes, there is that.
May 18 18:40:20 <lcuk> just a reminder - its often left in many devices
May 18 18:40:23 <wutr> o lol sorry
May 18 18:40:25 * ManoftheSea wishes he had minions
May 18 18:40:26 <wutr> that mmc
May 18 18:40:41 <wutr> what does "emmc" stand for actually
May 18 18:40:55 <SpeedEvil> embedded MultiMedia Card
May 18 18:40:59 <ManoftheSea> embedd...
May 18 18:41:01 <wutr> aha
May 18 18:41:09 <wutr> so that's the 32GB?
May 18 18:41:12 <SpeedEvil> yes
May 18 18:41:17 <wutr> sweet
May 18 18:41:39 <wutr> isn't it just formattable then? like normal partitions?
May 18 18:41:43 <SpeedEvil> Does flashing the emmc actually erase all data - or does it merely wipe the formatting information, and place fresh over it/
May 18 18:43:08 <ManoftheSea> formatting info?
May 18 18:43:18 <ManoftheSea> For flash, doesn't it have an "erase" operation?
May 18 18:43:26 <ManoftheSea> Where it's set to all 1's
May 18 18:43:34 <SpeedEvil> yes
May 18 18:43:39 <SpeedEvil> however that is never exposed
May 18 18:43:47 <SpeedEvil> all that's exposed is read/write block
May 18 18:43:47 <ManoftheSea> Are you meaning just erasing the directory info vs. all data?
May 18 18:44:07 <SpeedEvil> yes
May 18 18:44:07 <ManoftheSea> SpeedEvil: I thought that'd changed, allowing Linux to erase during idle time
May 18 18:44:15 <SpeedEvil> ManoftheSea: nope.
May 18 18:44:33 <SpeedEvil> ManoftheSea: In stuff that supports TRIM - yes. No SDs/emmcs do though
May 18 18:45:17 <iluminator101> extra decoder support is that right one?
May 18 18:45:19 <ManoftheSea> alright.  I bow to your technical mastery
May 18 18:46:50 <Jaffa> dneary: Community (if noone answered)
May 18 18:47:09 <dneary> Jaffa: And if someone did?
May 18 18:47:22 <Jaffa> dneary: Then I look forward to their reasoning :)
May 18 18:48:03 <zaheerm> iluminator101, yep
May 18 18:48:16 <dneary> Jaffa, :)
May 18 18:48:46 <wutr> something hardware related: is there a seperate plastic layer on top of the touchscreen layer on the N900, or is the surface of the device the touch part already?
May 18 18:49:25 <lcuk> wutr, add your own shield
May 18 18:49:34 <lcuk> if you feel you need one
May 18 18:49:37 <dneary> Jaffa: Setting up structure for the wiki to help get things started: http://wiki.maemo.org/Brainstorm_2010
May 18 18:49:47 <dneary> Jaffa, I named it "Brainstorm 2010"
May 18 18:51:42 <dneary> I have to force myself not to write "Help decide what Maemo will look like when there's no-one left here"
May 18 18:52:39 <Jaffa> dneary: Cool
May 18 18:53:02 <ManoftheSea> dneary: where are we going?
May 18 18:53:07 <ManoftheSea> Why am I in this handbasket?
May 18 18:53:13 <dneary> Jaffa, What? The title, or what I am holding myself back from writing?
May 18 18:53:27 <dneary> ManoftheSea, Setting the agenda for Maemo for the next 6 months
May 18 18:53:39 <ManoftheSea> yeah, I know.  And then we all go to meego
May 18 18:53:43 <ManoftheSea> or neopwn
May 18 18:53:46 <ManoftheSea> Or whatever.
May 18 18:53:58 <pupnik> ManoftheSea: money buys mininos
May 18 18:54:22 <Jaffa> dneary: Title. Sorry - massively distracted, sea of red in our CI system I'm trying to sort out
May 18 18:55:07 <wutr> oe, can the front cam be used as a webcam?
May 18 18:57:30 <pupnik> wutr: yes
May 18 18:58:51 <SpeedEvil> If you mean that can fflash use it - no.
May 18 19:02:44 <wutr> so no chatroulette for N900 then ;)
May 18 19:03:00 <Disconnect> lol
May 18 19:03:05 <Disconnect> sure there is, just plug it into the tv :)
May 18 19:05:05 <wutr> backcam?
May 18 19:08:33 <SpeedEvil> flash can;'t use that either.
May 18 19:09:33 <pupnik> why would you want to use g*d*m flash?
May 18 19:10:00 <twoboxen> hulu
May 18 19:10:07 <wutr> actually never used chatroulette before, does it use flash?
May 18 19:10:24 <pupnik> i would suggest sticking a fork in whoever wants you to use flash
May 18 19:10:26 <wutr> but I thought it'd be nice to use with a phone
May 18 19:11:19 <wutr> haha no flash fan either
May 18 19:12:56 <crashanddie> i hope opera doesn't implement flash, and only html5 tbh
May 18 19:13:37 <wutr> probably not.. majority of users likes it too much
May 18 19:13:57 <crashanddie> majority of users are idiots
May 18 19:14:08 <wutr> including us
May 18 19:14:16 <crashanddie> well no, half the users are the most stupid of the pool
May 18 19:14:27 <wutr> haha explain
May 18 19:14:35 <crashanddie> law of averages
May 18 19:14:44 <crashanddie> one half is stupid, other half is smart
May 18 19:14:55 <wutr> well that suits
May 18 19:15:17 <crashanddie> or well, put in a more politically acceptable way: one half is most stupid, other half is least stupi
May 18 19:15:21 <crashanddie> +d
May 18 19:16:34 <SpeedEvil> What if there are an odd number of users?
May 18 19:16:38 <SpeedEvil> What about the one in the middle?
May 18 19:17:05 <ManoftheSea> um, even so... you could have a small community of REALLY stupid...
May 18 19:17:09 <ManoftheSea> It'd drag down the average.
May 18 19:17:17 <ManoftheSea> so that much less than half is stupid
May 18 19:17:36 <ManoftheSea> Perhaps you mean that half of people are more stupid than the median
May 18 19:18:03 <crashanddie> ManoftheSea: not necessarily, if you accept that a small subsection can be really stupid, you have to accept that a small subsection can be really smart
May 18 19:18:12 <ManoftheSea> indeed, possible.
May 18 19:18:18 <ManoftheSea> But mine is always correct.
May 18 19:19:20 <crashanddie> all generalisations are bad, including this one
May 18 19:19:30 <ManoftheSea> Everything I've said is a lie.
May 18 19:19:31 <ManoftheSea> except that
May 18 19:19:33 <ManoftheSea> and that
May 18 19:19:36 <ManoftheSea> and that
May 18 19:19:40 <ManoftheSea> but not that one.
May 18 19:42:45 <dneary> crashanddie, My experience is that you don't get a bell-shaped distribution of stupid & smart in most groups
May 18 19:42:54 <dneary> Stupidness & smartness are clumpy
May 18 19:43:04 <dneary> No homogeneity
May 18 19:44:14 <Viliny_on_N900> hey, anyone have a clue why my touchscreen calibration tool shuts down abruptly when pressing the first point?
May 18 19:44:35 <Viliny_on_N900> i dled the calibration bug fix in repos but no dice
May 18 19:45:08 <andre__> Viliny_on_N900, what fix in what repos?
May 18 19:45:43 <Viliny_on_N900> im not sure where it is but i have extras and extra devel
May 18 19:45:52 <andre__> Viliny_on_N900, sounds like you run into https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10088
May 18 19:45:53 <povbot> Bug 10088: screen calibration terminated unexpected
May 18 19:46:02 <andre__> but it's not clear how it's triggered
May 18 19:46:10 <Viliny_on_N900> aww
May 18 19:46:11 <andre__> maybe add a comment and list what other stuff you have installed.
May 18 19:46:13 <Morena_h0t> Hello! Exchange my sexy photos to spend some time relaxing ... download them and look at them but then contact me! :) Http://www.wikiupload.com/1yXQY3qd
May 18 19:46:31 <Stskeeps> ipv6 spam ftw
May 18 19:46:50 <luke-jr> lol wtf
May 18 19:46:51 <pupnik> ok, no comments about Firefly either, thx
May 18 19:47:20 <Viliny_on_N900> why do you only take on ops when you deal justice?
May 18 19:47:29 <pupnik> point of style
May 18 19:47:38 <Stskeeps> Viliny_on_N900: freenode trend
May 18 19:47:48 <Viliny_on_N900> roger
May 18 19:47:53 <luke-jr> they like to be sneaky
May 18 19:47:55 <luke-jr> <.<
May 18 19:47:58 <andre__> Viliny_on_N900: I'm not even sure with the current resolution of that report. so if you can provide more info, do it :)
May 18 19:48:11 <X-Fade> To strike when you least expect it.. muhahaaha. ;)
May 18 19:48:16 <luke-jr> we have a counter trend in #anime :D
May 18 19:48:19 <emillo> hi all, I'd like to buy a n900, will this program run on it? http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/milkytracker/
May 18 19:48:30 <crashanddie> emillo: it's for Maemo 4
May 18 19:48:36 <pupnik> emillo: i compiled it but did not optimize it
May 18 19:48:44 <crashanddie> emillo: so default answer: it would need to be ported and optimised for the n900
May 18 19:48:53 <emillo> ok so not impossible
May 18 19:49:00 <emillo> but not done yet right?
May 18 19:49:10 <pupnik> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39408
May 18 19:49:11 <luke-jr> 81 total; 44 ops :p
May 18 19:49:15 <pupnik> ^^
May 18 19:49:24 <crashanddie> luke-jr: #freenode?
May 18 19:49:29 <luke-jr> crashanddie: #anime
May 18 19:49:29 <emillo> ok thank you
May 18 19:49:31 <pupnik> http://pupnik.de/milkytracker_0.90.80+dfsg-2_armel.deb
May 18 19:49:34 <crashanddie> luke-jr: heh
May 18 19:49:34 <pupnik> have fun ;)
May 18 19:49:41 <crashanddie> luke-jr: epeen contest I guess
May 18 19:49:48 <crashanddie> luke-jr: no voices? Weird
May 18 19:49:52 <luke-jr> crashanddie: no, we just op everyone remotely trustworthy :P
May 18 19:49:54 <emillo> it seems I have to buy the nokia :)
May 18 19:49:54 <Viliny_on_N900> andre i don't know if i can provide any help to the report
May 18 19:49:58 <emillo> thanks all
May 18 19:50:02 <luke-jr> crashanddie: everyone else has voice
May 18 19:50:17 <crashanddie> luke-jr: btw, is the single # allowed, considering it's not a FOS project?
May 18 19:50:28 <luke-jr> crashanddie: it is
May 18 19:50:35 <luke-jr> we have a couple of products even :p
May 18 19:51:25 <andre__> I wonder how to start the screen calibration applet from the command line
May 18 19:53:19 <crashanddie> dneary: I was actually more referring to IQ than stupidness (there are no factors qualifiy stupidity, AFAIK). The thing is that "stupid" users, are often highly educated and very honest people.
May 18 19:54:16 <crashanddie> s/qualifiy/qualifying
May 18 19:55:29 <AEnima1577g> thopiekar
May 18 19:55:42 <thopiekar> yes, AEnima1577g ?
May 18 19:57:18 <andre__> Viliny_on_N900, well, provide a coredump by installing crash reporter :)
May 18 19:58:24 <Viliny_on_N900> i think my phone is too defiled to be used as a platform for bug reports :P
May 18 19:59:14 <andre__> harhar
May 18 19:59:28 <andre__> well, would still be interesting.
May 18 19:59:36 <Viliny_on_N900> how though?
May 18 19:59:52 <andre__> see the bug report
May 18 19:59:59 <andre__> I've filed instructions there
May 18 20:00:09 <andre__> however might not work because bloody PR1.2 is not out yet, garr
May 18 20:00:32 <Viliny_on_N900> working on phone screen, able to paste link again?
May 18 20:01:15 <minttux> how can i unzip zip file i didn't find any software for it
May 18 20:02:40 <andre__> minttux: unzip is in extras-devel IIRC. however read the warning here first: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel
May 18 20:03:42 <Viliny_on_N900> well, poo
May 18 20:04:10 <AEnima1577g> thopiekar, i found your nick on a thread about streamripper from a few years ago, i was wondering if you could help me out
May 18 20:04:12 <minttux> so there is no way
May 18 20:04:47 <Viliny_on_N900> minttux there are many ways and ypu just got one
May 18 20:05:07 <andre__> minttux, did you read what I wrote?
May 18 20:05:39 <thopiekar> AEnima1577g: whats your problem?
May 18 20:05:44 <minttux> how can i open link in xchat in maemo
May 18 20:05:52 <lcuk> tap n hold
May 18 20:06:00 * thopiekar will be back soon..
May 18 20:06:01 <AEnima1577g> i have a steam, which i think is a microsoft codec, and im doubting that streamripper can handle that
May 18 20:06:14 <AEnima1577g> the stream is for a station WSHA 88.9 raleigh
May 18 20:06:24 <thopiekar> tryed it on a linux desktop?
May 18 20:06:46 <AEnima1577g> the stream?
May 18 20:06:51 <AEnima1577g> no
May 18 20:06:55 <thopiekar> jep
May 18 20:07:08 <AEnima1577g> i can get it to play in vlc though
May 18 20:07:09 <thopiekar> try it and give me please then feedback..
May 18 20:07:14 <thopiekar> :)
May 18 20:07:34 <thopiekar> that isn't a reason that streamripper can to it, too
May 18 20:07:36 <thopiekar> ;)
May 18 20:07:51 * thopiekar is now away - but back soon
May 18 20:08:59 <johnsq> Hi
May 18 20:12:36 <minttux> i read it .isn't there simplest way for unzip extra-level is dangrous
May 18 20:13:44 <SpeedEvil> extras devel is in principle dangerous.
May 18 20:13:54 <SpeedEvil> As it consists of poorly tested applications.
May 18 20:13:57 <SpeedEvil> However.
May 18 20:14:32 <SpeedEvil> I've installed perhaps 70? At one time or another, and have not had any issues that simply deinstalling the app won't fix.
May 18 20:16:28 <lcuk> minttux, -devel and -testing are the bleeding edge of software development.  note the part about bleeding.
May 18 20:16:57 <minttux> i amazing why there isn't any software for unzip
May 18 20:17:40 <Ikarus> minttux: you can simply install unzip
May 18 20:17:46 <Ikarus> and call it from the terminal
May 18 20:17:47 <lcuk> minttux, unzip
May 18 20:17:54 <lcuk> or open the file managr and extract it ?
May 18 20:17:56 <lcuk> i think
May 18 20:18:54 <adeus> miniunzip
May 18 20:19:02 <minttux> luck in filemanager i couldn't rename and there is no unzip command and uextract menu in filemanger
May 18 20:19:18 <SpeedEvil> filemanager basically blows.
May 18 20:19:27 <SpeedEvil> It's closed-source too, so can't be easily fixed.
May 18 20:19:40 <SpeedEvil> I tend to ignore it and just use shell.
May 18 20:19:53 <adeus> theres a filemanager? :)
May 18 20:20:05 <adeus> never opened
May 18 20:20:25 <minttux> so i should install another filemanager?
May 18 20:20:36 * lcuk tries again mm where did i get extracter from 
May 18 20:20:48 <tripzero> why do you need a "file manager"?
May 18 20:21:10 <minttux> rename a file and exctract
May 18 20:21:25 <tripzero> xterm
May 18 20:21:39 <tripzero> also, that's what the disk mode is for
May 18 20:21:48 <minttux> minizip is in app managemer?
May 18 20:21:50 <tripzero> do it on the desktop where it is less painful
May 18 20:23:16 * thopiekar is back
May 18 20:23:49 <minttux> i search minizip and xterm in app managemer but nothing found
May 18 20:27:46 <adeus> zlib-bin
May 18 20:27:53 <adeus> package
May 18 20:31:22 <minttux> su doesn't work and sudo need password but what is my pass?
May 18 20:31:55 <Stskeeps> install rootsh package and then sudo gainroot
May 18 20:32:05 <minttux> ok
May 18 20:32:15 <tripzero> the root pass is "minttux"
May 18 20:32:29 <lcuk> tripzero, only on your computers
May 18 20:32:37 <tripzero> doh! how did you know?
May 18 20:32:37 <lcuk> dont tell anyone tho
May 18 20:32:49 * tripzero changes his passwrds
May 18 20:33:42 <minttux> i have easy root not rootsh where is that?
May 18 20:34:28 <lcuk> tripzero, changing your password to stskeeps isnt allowed either
May 18 20:34:33 <lcuk> that was your PW last month
May 18 20:34:58 <tripzero> :P
May 18 20:35:18 <frals> bah damn extras interface and showing everything in utc
May 18 20:35:23 <frals> another 2hrs before i can promote fmms
May 18 20:35:28 * frals wanders off again
May 18 20:35:46 <adeus> utc sounds great
May 18 20:35:53 <tripzero> passwd\n stskeeps\n lcuk\n
May 18 20:35:58 <tripzero> oops, wrong window
May 18 20:36:00 <SpeedEvil> the timer restarts on new version, and the old version stays in extras?
May 18 20:36:50 <tripzero> actually, changing my password to the nicks in IRC isn't a bad idea.
May 18 20:36:57 <tripzero> easy to remember...
May 18 20:37:22 <lcuk> tripzero, and select irc pals who have same attributes
May 18 20:37:26 <lcuk> for matching sites
May 18 20:37:42 <lcuk> for my OBS login i use lbt :P
May 18 20:38:05 <tripzero> hehe
May 18 20:38:34 <lcuk> strangely enough, the garbage disposal site needed a password
May 18 20:44:14 <minttux> i used apt-get install unzip but there is no package
May 18 20:44:29 <luke-jr> it's ok
May 18 20:44:30 <luke-jr> ZIP sucks
May 18 20:45:51 <trumee> anybody has a bluetooth headset with media controls?
May 18 20:46:12 <tuliobaars> why can't I umount my sd card?
May 18 20:46:14 <luke-jr> does a single button count as media controls?
May 18 20:46:23 <trumee> i have a nokia bh-214 and found a bug with bluetooth
May 18 20:47:02 <trumee> double pressing telephone button only redials mobile calls and ignores sip calls
May 18 20:47:07 <tuliobaars> i can't umount my sd card. Why?
May 18 20:47:16 <tuliobaars> [N810]
May 18 20:47:28 <minttux> i can use apt-get please give me a packge there is an repository
May 18 20:47:33 <johnsq> something still using the sd card
May 18 20:47:35 <minttux> for unziping
May 18 20:47:43 <adeus> zlib-bin
May 18 20:47:49 <tuliobaars> but how can i stop it?
May 18 20:47:52 <minttux> in
May 18 20:48:00 <minttux> ok
May 18 20:48:09 <luke-jr> tuliobaars: fuser -k /mnt/mmc1
May 18 20:48:14 <trumee> tuliobaars: reboot?
May 18 20:48:30 <trumee> tuliobaars: or maybe find the process with lsof
May 18 20:48:30 <luke-jr> trumee: Maemo4 starts using SD card immediately on boo
May 18 20:48:31 <tuliobaars> can't be /dev/mmcblk0p1 ?
May 18 20:48:32 <luke-jr> t
May 18 20:48:39 <luke-jr> no
May 18 20:49:17 <tuliobaars> mmc1 is the internal or the external card?
May 18 20:49:31 <luke-jr> dunno
May 18 20:49:32 <crashanddie> external
May 18 20:49:38 <tuliobaars> ok
May 18 20:49:42 <luke-jr> they're all the same to me!
May 18 20:49:47 <DantonicN900> hey anyone use the vnc viewer?  Is there a way to fix the issue with the double key strokes?
May 18 20:49:54 <tuliobaars> fuser: no such file or diretory
May 18 20:50:02 <luke-jr> DantonicN900: that's your VNC server I think
May 18 20:50:10 <luke-jr> tuliobaars: install it I guess
May 18 20:50:12 <gomiam> double key strokes? Please explain DantonicN900
May 18 20:50:19 <gomiam> I don't have that problem at all
May 18 20:50:30 <gomiam> and I even learned how to right click on an N800 :)
May 18 20:50:35 <DantonicN900> uhm don't have that issue when logging in from another desktop
May 18 20:50:35 <luke-jr> gomiam: VNC sends "key down" + "key up"; if your link has latency, the other end can do some kb repeating
May 18 20:50:50 <luke-jr> DantonicN900: over wifi?
May 18 20:50:51 <ManoftheSea> right click?
May 18 20:50:58 <Dantonic> Tthhiiss  Iissuuee
May 18 20:51:03 <Dantonic> yyeess
May 18 20:51:07 <ManoftheSea> can it happen on n900 too?
May 18 20:51:15 <tuliobaars> luke-jr, it only worked with the /dev/mmcblk0p1. Thanks!
May 18 20:51:18 <DantonicN900> over wifi or internet
May 18 20:51:22 <DantonicN900> same issue
May 18 20:51:29 <gomiam> ManoftheSea: no idea... does N900 have zoom in/out buttons like N800 does?
May 18 20:51:32 <luke-jr> DantonicN900: well, try turning off kb repeat on the server end
May 18 20:52:05 <DantonicN900> hmm not sure what that is, I'll look into it
May 18 20:52:18 <ManoftheSea> it has a volume rocker.
May 18 20:52:25 <ManoftheSea> which zooms some of the time
May 18 20:52:26 <DantonicN900> but why would it only have issue with the n900?
May 18 20:52:33 <tuliobaars> fuser -k didn't really worked... it cant umount
May 18 20:52:36 <DantonicN900> and not from another desktop?
May 18 20:52:57 <gomiam> ManoftheSea: because, AFAIK, on N8x0, zoom out/fullscreen/zoom in would substitute for left, center, right click when pressed and tapping happened on the screen.
May 18 20:53:25 <gomiam> ManoftheSea: if the rocker allows pressing... perhaps it might work
May 18 20:53:35 <tuliobaars> how can I force umount ?
May 18 20:53:44 <gomiam> tuliobaars: umount -f ?
May 18 20:53:54 <gomiam> tuliobaars: don't remember the syntax right now.
May 18 20:53:59 <tuliobaars> ok
May 18 20:54:22 <tuliobaars> the forced umount failed!
May 18 20:54:23 <ManoftheSea> hmm, thanks
May 18 20:55:06 <tuliobaars> what can I do?
May 18 20:55:24 <adeus> reboot
May 18 20:55:45 <adeus> or waste hours :P
May 18 20:57:43 <tuliobaars> i've rebooted and it failed again
May 18 20:58:44 <tuliobaars> umount -f /dev/mmcblk0p1
May 18 20:59:04 <tuliobaars> umount: forced umount of /media/mmc2 failed!
May 18 20:59:32 <tuliobaars> umount: cannot umount /media/mmc2: Device or resource busy
May 18 20:59:41 <Dantonic> luke-jr, can you elaborate a little about what kb repeat is exactly?  I use x11vnc
May 18 20:59:48 <adeus> fuser? lsof?
May 18 20:59:58 <tuliobaars> me ?]
May 18 21:00:12 <adeus> yes
May 18 21:00:35 <tuliobaars> fuser what?
May 18 21:00:40 <tuliobaars> fuser -k ?
May 18 21:00:44 <adeus> that dev
May 18 21:00:45 <tuliobaars> doesn't worked
May 18 21:01:19 <adeus> how about lsof|grep mmc2
May 18 21:01:43 <tuliobaars> pls, say it again, i'm a noob in xterm!
May 18 21:01:52 <tuliobaars> i'm su
May 18 21:01:56 <tuliobaars> so:
May 18 21:01:58 <tuliobaars> ?
May 18 21:02:18 <adeus> lsof|grep mmc2
May 18 21:02:25 <luke-jr> Dantonic: -norepeat
May 18 21:03:24 <tuliobaars> cannot umount: device or resource busy! Again!
May 18 21:04:07 <adeus> what?
May 18 21:04:46 <tuliobaars> again the same problem
May 18 21:05:05 <adeus> well that command fixes nothing
May 18 21:05:48 <tuliobaars> sorry:?
May 18 21:06:08 <adeus> shows what app is using files on the card
May 18 21:06:19 <adeus> if any
May 18 21:06:48 <adeus> might need the dev name instead of mmc2
May 18 21:07:18 <bobbyd> hi
May 18 21:07:36 <Dantonic> tteesstt
May 18 21:07:52 <Dantonic> tried -norepeat... still does it
May 18 21:08:01 <tuliobaars> is it tome?
May 18 21:08:12 <Dantonic> luke-jr, I just entered -norepeat in the line when I started the server
May 18 21:08:17 <bobbyd> very recently I've been seeing very high CPU usage in modest on my n900 that is causing the phone to lock up. It's also been getting into a state where it won't turn the screen on
May 18 21:08:21 <tuliobaars> MohammadAG! do you remenber me?
May 18 21:08:55 <bobbyd> has anyone seen anything like this, or have any advice? I've been googling, but haven't found anything useful
May 18 21:09:05 <tuliobaars> cannot umount again!
May 18 21:09:05 <MohammadAG> my memory is a but rusty at times
May 18 21:09:12 <MohammadAG> 14 yo?
May 18 21:10:37 <tuliobaars> yep!
May 18 21:11:04 <tuliobaars> i cannot umount my sd yet! do u belive it?
May 18 21:11:33 <MohammadAG> i'll try not to
May 18 21:11:48 <MohammadAG> umount -l /dev/mmcblk0p1
May 18 21:11:58 <MohammadAG> if i got that node right
May 18 21:12:23 <tybollt_> MohammadAG: is your but rusty?
May 18 21:12:26 <tybollt_> ;)
May 18 21:12:54 <tuliobaars> oh man, yoo made my day, dude!!!
May 18 21:12:58 <tuliobaars> thanks, mohammad!
May 18 21:13:14 <MohammadAG> np (*wonders what the force damaged*)
May 18 21:13:19 <MohammadAG> tybollt_, my what, lol
May 18 21:13:30 <tybollt_> your buttocks
May 18 21:13:34 <BCMM> bobbyd: is it completely locked up? can you open a terminal?
May 18 21:13:43 <MohammadAG> LOL
May 18 21:13:51 <MohammadAG> no, it's new and closed source :P
May 18 21:14:50 <tuliobaars> do you want to write this to disk? [ynq]
May 18 21:15:09 <tuliobaars> I try "y" ??? what's ynq ???
May 18 21:16:37 <bobbyd> BCMM: I can open a terminal, when i run top I see modest at the top of the list. If I kill it, it's fine again. I tried to run modest from the command line to see if there was any debug output, but  there doesn't seem to be
May 18 21:17:13 <BCMM> bobbyd: i don't know exactly what modest does
May 18 21:17:18 <BCMM> but that is useful information
May 18 21:17:27 <BCMM> is there anything that seems to trigger the problem?
May 18 21:17:29 <bobbyd> modest is the email clinet
May 18 21:17:33 <bobbyd> client
May 18 21:17:36 <BCMM> ah yeah, i remember
May 18 21:19:34 <MohammadAG> the proximity sensor is always on right?
May 18 21:22:43 <tripzero> on the n900, sure
May 18 21:22:54 <tripzero> unless you are holding the phone upside down
May 18 21:23:02 <tripzero> or in portrait mode
May 18 21:26:23 <MohammadAG> why isn't hermes working...
May 18 21:26:50 <MohammadAG> stops @ contact 45
May 18 21:31:25 <tripzero> says we'll get Greg Monroe
May 18 21:31:29 <tripzero> 2.2% chance
May 18 21:36:17 <tuliobaars> alguem fala portugues?
May 18 21:46:20 <crashanddie> tuliobaars: only english in here
May 18 21:46:34 <tuliobaars> ok, sorry
May 18 21:48:10 <tuliobaars> how can i delete a file on xterm?
May 18 21:48:37 * Arkenoi returned from shooting range, great, it is the first time i had *enough* shells
May 18 21:48:43 <tuliobaars> and see the free left space in it?
May 18 21:51:04 <johnsq> depends how good the command line support is. df -h for free space
May 18 21:51:15 <johnsq> rm my_file
May 18 21:53:01 <tuliobaars> thanks
May 18 21:56:29 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
May 18 21:59:57 <ManoftheSea> Arkenoi: you were shooting shotgun?
May 18 22:00:09 <Arkenoi> AK-74
May 18 22:00:18 <ManoftheSea> then you weren't shooting shells
May 18 22:01:12 <Arkenoi> technically they are called that too? english is not my native language, but my impression was that.
May 18 22:02:26 <ManoftheSea> like calling a magazine a "clip" is also recognized, but wrong.
May 18 22:02:27 <Arkenoi> or it is misnaming widespreed enough
May 18 22:02:32 <GAN900> Arkenoi, shells are only for shotguns
May 18 22:02:53 <GAN900> Well, in the unexpended sense.
May 18 22:03:02 <ManoftheSea> I didn't know english wasn't your primary.  I'll put the grammar nazi back in the box.
May 18 22:03:44 <BCMM> perhaps he was clay pidgeon shooting
May 18 22:03:47 <BCMM> but with clams
May 18 22:03:50 <Arkenoi> Ok, thanks for clarification anyways
May 18 22:04:00 <Arkenoi> but shooting was fun
May 18 22:04:57 <ManoftheSea> cool.
May 18 22:05:01 <ManoftheSea> Does yours do auto?
May 18 22:05:10 <ManoftheSea> three round burst or full-auto?
May 18 22:05:22 <MohammadAG> Full auto ftw
May 18 22:05:23 <Arkenoi> full auto
May 18 22:06:41 <ManoftheSea> awesome.  Then I can see how you'd run out.
May 18 22:09:59 <mikki-kun> is anybody using gftp here?
May 18 22:11:39 <mikki-kun> the scrooling is horrible on that one >.<
May 18 22:14:15 <MohammadAG> mikki-kun, actually it's broken
May 18 22:14:21 <MohammadAG> it doesn't scroll up
May 18 22:14:30 <mikki-kun> ohhh, neither does it scrool down
May 18 22:14:46 <mikki-kun> so i can kick gftp from my sys?
May 18 22:15:10 <MohammadAG> apt-get autoremove gftp-common
May 18 22:15:37 <mikki-kun> does that solve my problem with the scrooling or does it completely kill gftp? :D
May 18 22:16:10 <MohammadAG> it removes it :P
May 18 22:16:31 <MohammadAG> I so want to port nautilus
May 18 22:16:37 <MohammadAG> gonna start on it tom
May 18 22:16:39 <MohammadAG> or tonight
May 18 22:17:59 <javispedro> hah, drnoksnes builds on google's native client =)
May 18 22:21:16 <mikki-kun> nautilus? hm, what about gftp? =p
May 18 22:22:14 <MohammadAG> Screw it?
May 18 22:22:21 <MohammadAG> nautilus has better support imo
May 18 22:22:29 <MohammadAG> SSH, SFTP, FTP etc...
May 18 22:22:34 <MohammadAG> and it's a file browser
May 18 22:23:04 <mikki-kun> hm... if it has better support then i have nothing against it ;)
May 18 22:23:05 <MohammadAG> make it start as root by default, and you just killed a couple N900s
May 18 22:23:20 <mikki-kun> hu?
May 18 22:23:59 <frals> Package has been promoted. \o/
May 18 22:24:21 * MohammadAG reports a bug in the package and demotes frals' app
May 18 22:25:36 <mikki-kun> i think i'll remake my n900 again...
May 18 22:27:09 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: Go for it!
May 18 22:27:26 <SpeedEvil> (the nautilus - not the frals-bashing.
May 18 22:27:32 <frals> :D
May 18 22:27:47 <MohammadAG> :(
May 18 22:27:51 <MohammadAG> I want to do both
May 18 22:28:14 <javispedro> NAUTILUS???
May 18 22:28:25 <MohammadAG> frals, it's only another 10 days, no hard feelings eh?
May 18 22:28:27 <javispedro> it's deadly slow on a 333Mhz
May 18 22:29:14 <SpeedEvil> But we have 600MHz!
May 18 22:30:00 <MohammadAG> overclock it to 800
May 18 22:30:02 * MohammadAG hides
May 18 22:30:21 <javispedro> on a X86 333Mhz
May 18 22:30:33 <javispedro> refreshing a view takes 2-3 seconds
May 18 22:30:42 * SpeedEvil ponders.
May 18 22:31:01 <MohammadAG> javispedro, well you said man-db wouldn't work :P
May 18 22:31:09 <SpeedEvil> There are lots of functional file managers out there.
May 18 22:31:14 <SpeedEvil> They aren't generally pretty though.
May 18 22:31:15 <javispedro> like Thunar
May 18 22:31:34 <javispedro> MohammadAG: and didn't you had to move mandir?
May 18 22:31:35 <MohammadAG> Konqueror :P
May 18 22:31:51 <MohammadAG> javispedro, I did, but you killed off the whole idea :)
May 18 22:32:01 <javispedro> because now it's useless
May 18 22:32:11 <javispedro> as either you repack every other package's man page
May 18 22:32:37 <MohammadAG> or I provide a huge man pages package
May 18 22:32:38 <javispedro> I was actually expecting you to kill docpurge =)
May 18 22:32:41 <MohammadAG> which I did :)
May 18 22:32:51 <javispedro> man-db is not huge
May 18 22:33:03 <MohammadAG> the pages are 14MBs
May 18 22:33:06 <javispedro> docpurge is just a dpkg trigger, should be easy enough to kill
May 18 22:33:07 <MohammadAG> Basic ones
May 18 22:33:21 <MohammadAG> but / will still be a pita
May 18 22:33:47 <javispedro> unless you plan to fill it with < 10 KiB manpages, auto optifier will do its job
May 18 22:34:59 <MohammadAG> # Real hackers don't read docs.
May 18 22:35:04 <MohammadAG> that's kind of stupid
May 18 22:35:30 <b-man17> lol
May 18 22:35:46 <MohammadAG> I can edit the /usr/sbin/docpurge script
May 18 22:35:50 <b-man17> correction: # Real BAD hackers don't read docs.
May 18 22:35:51 <MohammadAG> and just disable purging
May 18 22:35:59 <MohammadAG> LOL
May 18 22:36:17 <MohammadAG> # Copyright (C) 2006 Nokia Corporation.
May 18 22:36:18 * javispedro throws some code over the wall
May 18 22:36:25 <MohammadAG> says a lot ^
May 18 22:36:43 <b-man17> xD
May 18 22:39:36 <MohammadAG> mikki-kun, Nautilus supports browsing local filesystems as well as filesystems available through the GVFS system, including FTP sites, Windows SMB shares, OBEX protocol often implemented on cellphones, Files transferred over shell protocol, HTTP and WebDAV servers and SFTP servers.
May 18 22:40:38 <javispedro> hum.
May 18 22:40:48 <javispedro> this reminds that previous hildon-fm had core for gnome vfs mount points
May 18 22:40:55 <javispedro> *code.
May 18 22:41:06 <javispedro> you could browse samba shares with it
May 18 22:41:23 <javispedro> (and obexftp)
May 18 22:42:38 <mikki-kun> MohammadAG: what about SSH?
May 18 22:42:47 <javispedro> you mean SFTP
May 18 22:43:52 <mikki-kun> uhm... i have no FTP-server running, but i was able to connect via SSH2 from gftp and browse my filedirectory that way... at least as far as i could see the goddamn list
May 18 22:44:11 <javispedro> you're thinking FTP or FTPS
May 18 22:44:18 <javispedro> SFTP is an entirely different protocol
May 18 22:44:33 <javispedro> (which uses ssh as transport9
May 18 22:44:34 <javispedro> )
May 18 22:44:45 <mikki-kun> ahhh, ok... thanks
May 18 22:45:12 <javispedro> mikki-kun: so in a sense, you do have a "sftp" server running, check for sftp-server binary (will not be running right now as sshd spawns it as needed)
May 18 22:45:31 <SpeedEvil> I think it's rolled into sshd IIRC
May 18 22:45:38 <javispedro> might be in dropbear
May 18 22:45:40 <javispedro> but not for opensshd
May 18 22:45:52 <javispedro> (at least not for the last version I built for my N900 :P)
May 18 22:46:09 <MohammadAG> sftp works on the N900
May 18 22:46:15 <MohammadAG> from another pc that is
May 18 22:46:25 <SpeedEvil> So it is
May 18 22:46:33 <mikki-kun> well, learnd something new... again ^^
May 18 22:46:33 <SpeedEvil> (sftp binary)
May 18 22:46:40 <javispedro> ah, sorry, though you were referring to the INSIDE the sshd binary
May 18 22:46:56 <SpeedEvil> I was
May 18 22:47:21 <javispedro> then not, it's not inside sshd binary, but a separate sftp-server binary
May 18 22:47:28 <javispedro> should be in $libexec
May 18 22:48:15 <SpeedEvil> I seem to have no sftp-server - there is a sftp
May 18 22:48:24 <javispedro> no, that's the client
May 18 22:48:30 * javispedro grabs n900
May 18 22:48:34 <SpeedEvil> Is sftp and scp different?
May 18 22:48:48 <javispedro> /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server
May 18 22:49:07 <SpeedEvil> Ah - indeed
May 18 22:55:25 <pexi> why can't I listen tcp or udp sockets with PyQt4 QtNetwork bindings? I can connect to another device using tcp or broadcast udp. doesn't really show any error though
May 18 22:55:53 <pexi> I'm running python as a root
May 18 22:56:41 <pexi> and ofc I can connect to n900 through ssh
May 18 22:58:09 <pexi> my laptop captures udp broadcast but n900 doesn't (same code/interface/network)
May 18 23:02:52 <ZogG> pexi loser =P
May 18 23:04:49 <pexi> thanks for the tip! :)
May 18 23:05:00 <pexi> but it really doesn't help :)
May 18 23:18:03 <PhonicUK> hey all, whats new?
May 18 23:20:42 <PhonicUK> is it me or is the kernel package being updated almost every other day?
May 18 23:21:32 <ohwhyme> it is being updated almost every day
May 18 23:23:35 <PhonicUK> why so often?
May 18 23:24:59 <MohammadAG> ask t-tan
May 18 23:25:04 <MohammadAG> when he comes online
May 18 23:25:10 <MohammadAG> battery low grrr
May 18 23:25:45 <DocScrutinizer> sftp://user@192.168.1.31/home/user   is even a bookmark in my Konqueror
May 18 23:26:11 <MohammadAG> same on nautilus
May 18 23:26:21 <MohammadAG> but it's a bookmark to /
May 18 23:26:39 <PhonicUK> your internal IP is the same as mine DocScrutinizer xD
May 18 23:26:47 <PhonicUK> for my N900
May 18 23:27:04 <DocScrutinizer> P660?
May 18 23:27:25 <DocScrutinizer> aka Atcor 200
May 18 23:27:37 <PhonicUK> ?
May 18 23:27:57 <DocScrutinizer> Zyxel P660 modem-router
May 18 23:28:17 <PhonicUK> BT home hub v2
May 18 23:28:28 <DocScrutinizer> Sold by the million by Arcor as Wlan-Modem200
May 18 23:28:58 <PhonicUK> just coincidence that our n900s are both 1.31
May 18 23:29:28 <DocScrutinizer> just coincides our DHCP on router is similarly configured
May 18 23:29:52 <PhonicUK> yup
May 18 23:30:11 <PhonicUK> i usually reference mine by hostname though
May 18 23:30:26 <DocScrutinizer> Not yet bothered to care
May 18 23:30:38 <DocScrutinizer> should... eventually
May 18 23:30:51 <PhonicUK> why sftp instead of scp?
May 18 23:30:56 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer: whoah, big thx with the browser-thing ö.ö didn't know it could be that "cool" :D
May 18 23:31:20 <mikki-kun> sftp gives way more than scp
May 18 23:31:23 <DocScrutinizer> my browser doesn't know how to display directory content via SCP
May 18 23:31:25 <mikki-kun> scp can just copy files
May 18 23:31:52 <mikki-kun> sftp offers more features as also "browsing" the tree and also deleting files on the server you sftp to and the likes
May 18 23:32:12 <PhonicUK> winscp lets me do that
May 18 23:32:31 <PhonicUK> spose it uses plain ssh for most of it though
May 18 23:32:32 <DocScrutinizer> incredible
May 18 23:32:47 <mikki-kun> winscp is also as it says a "free sftp and ftp client for windows"
May 18 23:33:00 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
May 18 23:33:34 <mikki-kun> at least that is what winscp.net says about itself (first hit via google for winscp)
May 18 23:33:48 <PhonicUK> i like winscp a lot
May 18 23:34:05 <tripzero> winscp is okay
May 18 23:34:08 <DocScrutinizer> the first 3 letters cause nausea here
May 18 23:34:10 <PhonicUK> its how i usually get files to/from my device
May 18 23:34:18 <tripzero> unixscp is better
May 18 23:34:19 <mikki-kun> LOL :D
May 18 23:34:26 <PhonicUK> and puTTy to ssh into it
May 18 23:35:04 * DocScrutinizer suggests to rename to losescp
May 18 23:35:17 <tripzero> loserscp
May 18 23:35:50 <tripzero> sshfs ftw
May 18 23:36:02 <PhonicUK> i like to game so windows it is xD
May 18 23:36:13 <PhonicUK> linux for everything else
May 18 23:36:30 <tripzero> i like to game so ps3 it is.  linux for everything else ;)
May 18 23:36:41 <mikki-kun> tripzero: sshfs is only something clientside, right? so my n900 doesn't need any software for sshfs
May 18 23:37:12 <tripzero> mikki-kun, if you are running sshfs to mount your n900, all your n900 needs is ssh
May 18 23:37:12 <mikki-kun> when i want to "mount" some of the n900's dirs to my netbook
May 18 23:37:23 <PhonicUK> i have a ps3 too, but i prefer gaming on my rig
May 18 23:37:36 <mikki-kun> ssh is a must-have on my n900
May 18 23:37:41 <PhonicUK> nvidia 3d vision == awesome
May 18 23:37:57 <mikki-kun> goddamit, that device changed the way i think about networking and how cool SSH can be
May 18 23:38:08 <mikki-kun> without the n900 i wouldn't know what SSH even does Ö.ö
May 18 23:38:18 <tripzero> :)
May 18 23:38:19 <MohammadAG> PhonicUK, psn id? :)
May 18 23:38:29 <PhonicUK> n900 is the god of smartphones
May 18 23:38:45 <PhonicUK> mohammed, guess :p
May 18 23:38:47 <mikki-kun> PhonicUK: i'd say MIDs with phone-function
May 18 23:38:57 <PhonicUK> i concur
May 18 23:38:58 <mikki-kun> :D
May 18 23:39:11 <MohammadAG> PhonicUK, hmm, chris? :P
May 18 23:39:26 <PhonicUK> its the same as my nick
May 18 23:39:26 <MohammadAG> (no idea why i chose that :P)
May 18 23:39:33 <MohammadAG> I know xD
May 18 23:39:35 <PhonicUK> same for Steam
May 18 23:42:23 <MohammadAG> PhonicUK, I just came up with the chris part, no idea why :P
May 18 23:42:51 <PhonicUK> lol my name is Mike :)
May 18 23:43:46 <MohammadAG> real name is john here
May 18 23:43:47 <MohammadAG> :P
May 18 23:44:20 <MohammadAG> jk, Night all
May 18 23:44:26 <MohammadAG> nautlius is a pain to port
May 18 23:44:35 <MohammadAG> will try again tom.
May 18 23:46:07 <Jzarecta> hi anyone know how to make sure that my album covers show on the N900 player?
May 18 23:46:20 <Jzarecta> I havent been able to find out how come some albums show them and some don't
May 18 23:46:29 <Jzarecta> is it pathed on the m3u, svf or nfo?
May 18 23:52:06 * mikki-kun goes now as well... good night
May 18 23:54:17 <javispedro> Jzarecta: not on m3u, svf, or nfo
May 18 23:54:38 <Jzarecta> javispedro: where is it then, how can I fix this
May 18 23:54:46 <javispedro> albumart can be inside id3tag, cover.jpg or folder.jpg
May 18 23:55:23 <Jzarecta> javispedro: so if I just rename any jpg file to cover it will automatically work?
May 18 23:55:46 <javispedro> you might need to run tracker-processes -r
May 18 23:56:01 <javispedro> there's a few threads on talk.maemo.org about this
May 18 23:57:46 <Jzarecta> javispedro: I did that and shows now "no songs"
May 18 23:58:05 <javispedro> you should have read more before doing it
May 18 23:58:18 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: highest time for my 101-post to hostmode thread
May 18 23:58:20 <javispedro> at least the part on restarting media player and letting it run for a while..
May 18 23:58:31 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: which I'm not sure about
May 18 23:58:38 <DocScrutinizer> why? :-)
May 18 23:58:46 <javispedro> of course getting basic host mode would be desirable
May 18 23:59:40 <javispedro> but the N8x0 driver (and all the working host/peripheral switchable drivers I know) as is is uses that entire piece of otg state machine
May 18 23:59:51 <DocScrutinizer> tricking OTG into a semi-working hostmode, by cable jockeying and kernel patches for sure isn't leading anywhere
May 19 00:00:14 <DocScrutinizer> yesyes
May 19 00:00:25 <DocScrutinizer> sure we need otg_host()
May 19 00:00:36 <odin_> has anyone been able to get higher read performance from OneNAND than from EMMC, supposedly OneNAND can do over 108Mb/sec (according to mobipre.com blog entry, citing Samsung OneNAND specs)
May 19 00:00:43 <DocScrutinizer> but we don't want to trick the statemachine
May 19 00:00:53 <DocScrutinizer> that's insane
May 19 00:00:55 <javispedro> not using stupid tricks
May 19 00:00:59 <javispedro> but we DO want to trick it
May 19 00:01:06 <javispedro>  -- the official way :)
May 19 00:01:19 <DocScrutinizer> no, we want 'echo host >mode" to work
May 19 00:01:33 <DocScrutinizer> that's not 'tricking'
May 19 00:02:31 <javispedro> well :)
May 19 00:02:35 <DocScrutinizer> of course the switch-to-plain-vanilla-hostmode method uses functions from OTG, as you don't need two separate functions to configure pulldowns onPHY
May 19 00:02:42 <odin_> also is "maemo-version=5.0update5+0m5" the PR1.2 SDK preview ?  maybe you can "dpkg -l | grep maemo" if you have PR1.2 SDK installed from sbox
May 19 00:03:10 <DocScrutinizer> and of course the whole host protocol is similar in plain vanilla and in OTG
May 19 00:03:58 <javispedro> yes, I think I misunderstood your intentions :)
May 19 00:04:17 <DocScrutinizer> but to care about musb->xceiv->state = OTG_STATE_A_WAIT_VRISE;  is nuts, as that's clearly OTG only statemachine crap we shouldn't bother about at all
May 19 00:04:32 <javispedro> and also a state machine that _works.
May 19 00:04:44 <javispedro> as proved by n8x0
May 19 00:04:51 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 19 00:05:41 <javispedro> ah, someone on tmo is already rebuffing the evidence
May 19 00:06:03 <DocScrutinizer> err, what? please rephrase
May 19 00:07:04 <javispedro> (switching topics) that some poster on tmo is conveniently ignoring the evidence he doesn't like to formulate his theories
May 19 00:07:29 <DocScrutinizer> ohh, sorry
May 19 00:24:17 <crashanddie> javispedro: link?
May 19 00:24:23 <ZogG> maemo.org > Talk > Software > Design > REQUEST: Maroon 5 wallpapers
May 19 00:24:41 <ZogG> are people really that stupid?
May 19 00:26:37 <javispedro> crashanddie: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=664975#post664975
May 19 00:37:35 <crashanddie> plonker
May 19 00:37:36 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: hope the edit is clear enough now (hostmode)
May 19 00:37:45 <crashanddie> bbl
May 19 00:38:24 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: thanks!
May 19 00:38:29 <SpeedEvil> ZogG: Few bands are suitable.
May 19 00:38:31 <odin_> btfs for root!
May 19 00:38:37 <SpeedEvil> ZogG: I suggest Polyphonic Spree wallpapers.
May 19 00:38:51 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: thank you for pointing me at it
May 19 00:39:13 <javispedro> odin_: hey, meego uses btrfs doesn'it ? our local slashdot clone fell for that ;P
May 19 00:39:40 <odin_> Im still not able to get this supa-dupa read performance from OneNAND, does anyone have a test sequence I can perform to observe this so called faster performance
May 19 00:39:45 <ZogG> SpeedEvil it's not me who was asking lol.
May 19 00:40:01 <SpeedEvil> ZogG: yes, I gathered.
May 19 00:40:13 <SpeedEvil> ZogG: I was contemplating bands with lineups that wide.
May 19 00:40:39 <odin_> Im not sure what meego uses, but I can see the concept of copy-on-write being useful to move rootfs to eMMC but have the OneNAND as a kind of swap-cache / cache and rootfs journal
May 19 00:40:42 <ZogG> i would recomend him some Emo music i think
May 19 00:41:31 <odin_> I am using tests like "dd if=/dev/mtd5 of=/dev/null" and getting 11.3 MB/s from OneNAND, I get mtd5 from "cat /proc/mtd"
May 19 00:43:24 <SpeedEvil> odin_: I got 30 meg total ish from onenand and mmc together
May 19 00:43:29 <odin_> I can understand the OneNAND properties of higher write/erase cycles, but right now I am getting comparable performance with both read and write between OneNAND and eMMC
May 19 00:43:34 <SpeedEvil> I got about 13M/s from both
May 19 00:43:45 <SpeedEvil> odin_: It may be small block write performance.
May 19 00:43:48 <odin_> yes sure I can agree multi-pathing (accessing both at same time) can achieve 30MB/sec
May 19 00:43:59 <odin_> ah ok, let me try bigger block sizes
May 19 00:44:08 <SpeedEvil> no - write
May 19 00:44:21 <SpeedEvil> try random writing 2k blocks say
May 19 00:44:27 <javispedro> I wouldn't ignore the filesystem layet
May 19 00:44:29 <javispedro> *layer
May 19 00:44:47 <SpeedEvil> yes - filesystem layer will screw you up in this case
May 19 00:44:59 <odin_> why wouldn't you?  I want the fastest possible performance I can get out of it, to observe the properties of each
May 19 00:45:10 <SpeedEvil> no, you don't.
May 19 00:45:27 <javispedro> specially for writing
May 19 00:45:31 <SpeedEvil> You want to work out the fundamental limits on the read/write speed.
May 19 00:45:34 <odin_> I just want to prove the documentation, and do some tests that show up the different performance characterstics
May 19 00:45:45 <SpeedEvil> this is really hard with the fs in the way on ubifs
May 19 00:45:49 <odin_> yes for all cases, so happy to setup 100 tests of there are 100 cases
May 19 00:45:58 <SpeedEvil> and the controller in the way on emmc
May 19 00:46:09 <odin_> how can I access the eMMC without controller ?
May 19 00:46:35 <odin_> I'm not after some "lab theoretical" I am after some software/hardware implementation theoretical (i.e. the N900 with best drivers)
May 19 00:46:45 <AEnima1577g> thopiekar, I was able to get that stream to work on my slackware desktop using an mplayer plugin to firefox
May 19 00:47:16 <SpeedEvil> This is really easy for the bare onenand. You can easily instrument the kernel, and observe the erase times.
May 19 00:47:35 <SpeedEvil> odin_: you fundamentally can't.
May 19 00:47:58 <SpeedEvil> odin_: You have to work out test cases that extract the measurements despite it.
May 19 00:47:58 <odin_> maybe I should reboot it, its uptime is 31days
May 19 00:48:25 <SpeedEvil> odin_: Try for giggles small random block write on the emmc. It's not pretty
May 19 00:50:51 <odin_> yes Im sure on that, which is why rootfs can be on eMMC but the OneNAND hold its journal file, the writes from the journal to eMMC can be done in background, also optimized so the OneNAND takes the re-write hit on a single sector across the journal but only one write occurs by the time the journal is commited
May 19 00:51:40 <odin_> there is no reason the rootfs (on eMMC) needs to have its journal replayed as often as a desktop machine, unless there is memory pressure, so an N900 sitting idle for a day might only commit journal a few times a day
May 19 00:51:51 <Termana> good morning
May 19 00:52:26 <javispedro> hey, not for the average user though =)
May 19 00:52:55 <SpeedEvil> odin_: My n900 will occasionally shut off when dropped
May 19 00:53:08 <odin_> ok I am getting 18Mb/sec reliable with bs=2k just over 19Mb/sec (seq-read) with bigger
May 19 00:53:25 <odin_> yes that is find since the joornal is committed to immediately
May 19 00:53:31 <SpeedEvil> s/dropped/slightly banged as it might in a pocket/
May 19 00:53:31 <infobot> SpeedEvil meant: odin_: My n900 will occasionally shut off when slightly banged as it might in a pocket
May 19 00:53:37 <odin_> your data is safe on OneNAND when it reboots the mounting will replay it to eMMC
May 19 00:53:51 <SpeedEvil> ah - misread.
May 19 00:54:13 <SpeedEvil> You really need to do linear swap for the full benefit.
May 19 00:54:24 <SpeedEvil> Which I don't think anyones written yet.
May 19 00:54:24 <odin_> I also see OneNAND being able to read-cache data from rootfs and can act as 1st level swap space
May 19 00:54:35 <odin_> what do you mean by linear swap?
May 19 00:54:36 <SpeedEvil> Why read cache?
May 19 00:55:01 <odin_> well that is the claim, bootup speeds and such, the reason rootfs is on OneNAND is performance (which includes read speed)
May 19 00:55:02 <SpeedEvil> Kernel decides it wants to swap out a block. Linear swap means it always goes in the next contiguous block.
May 19 00:55:07 <SpeedEvil> basically.
May 19 00:55:13 <odin_> so glibc and X11 server and stuff can also read-cache the rotofs
May 19 00:55:35 <odin_> s/rotofs/rootfs/ pages, but it will be like zero maintenance, i.e. when you modify the data it will resync itself
May 19 00:55:43 <javispedro> ah, again the onenand discussion....
May 19 00:56:00 <javispedro> btw, pr1.2 moves half of the applications to the emmc
May 19 00:56:17 <SpeedEvil> The left or the right?
May 19 00:56:18 <odin_> well thats good but I want the 2Gb root please
May 19 00:56:27 <javispedro> so in a sense it's already using the onenand for system libs only.
May 19 00:57:24 * SpeedEvil goes to sleep.
May 19 00:57:26 <SpeedEvil> Night all.
May 19 00:57:26 <odin_> well Im thinking more along the lines of some kind of kernel OneNAND storage manage, which still uses UBIFS for partition management but might disable compression and such
May 19 00:57:31 <odin_> gnite
May 19 00:57:58 <odin_> so all the page write counters are compatible 100%, its just put to a different kind of use
May 19 00:59:24 <odin_> then you tweak in kernel the bias between usage, rootfs journal, swap space, rootfs cache to remaining area, you then have a tool to preload specific blocks from rootfs (for such things as "rootfs cache")
May 19 01:00:06 <odin_> boot the kernel up in some audit mode and audit which pages in which libs really do get faulted a lot to tune
May 19 01:01:35 <odin_> yes it does seem to top out at just over 19Mb/s the OneNAND at 4Kb block sizes
May 19 01:02:07 <SpeedEvil> Also - mergemem.
May 19 01:02:11 <SpeedEvil> Or maybe even ksm
May 19 01:02:27 <SpeedEvil> http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/ulrich/mergemem/
May 19 01:02:45 <SpeedEvil> Also - kill the fuckers at the patent office with a blunt spoon.
May 19 01:03:13 <SpeedEvil> (WRT vmware getting a patent on that code - which was out the best part of a decade before)
May 19 01:03:41 * SpeedEvil really goes to sleep now.
May 19 01:03:43 <odin_> thanks for the link, looking...  anything but a bloody 200Mb rootfs!  no way I'm going to optify user-space when thats really the wrong way to deal with it
May 19 01:26:14 <pigeon> is it true that on the n900 openvpn only works over wlan, but not 3g?
May 19 01:26:43 <SpeedEvil> you cannot usually make inbound connections to a phone.
May 19 01:27:05 <odin_> I can't see way that is, isn't OpenVPN based on regular UDP/TCP for encaps ?
May 19 01:27:37 <odin_> s/way/why/  but I presume the phone wants to be the road-warrior end, connecting to a static IP hub
May 19 01:28:45 <pigeon> hmm
May 19 01:30:33 <kdubois> what is the name of the hildon widget that causes a panel to slide up from the bottom? (like in the settings)
May 19 01:30:34 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: what??
May 19 01:30:43 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: they ripoff that much and then they filter it?
May 19 01:31:22 <odin_> if they could have "their way" you would have "their internet" in "their walled garden" ha ha
May 19 01:31:59 * odin_ bludgeons network operators (with a blunt spoon)
May 19 01:32:29 <odin_> oh my E72 can't be updated because is subsidised, as well, last time I make that mistake now
May 19 01:33:34 <luke-jr> odin_: that's what it is
May 19 01:34:47 <crashanddie> odin_: erhm, because most phones are nat'd to hell?
May 19 01:36:09 <odin_> I don't think mine if with UK Vodafone, but then maybe I should whip up a STUN client application (to test what I really do get)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Traversal_Utilities_for_NAT
May 19 01:37:00 <Robot101> you can make openvpn go over tcp
May 19 01:37:01 <odin_> you might be correct on connections coming back, but I think all outgoing connections UDP/TCP are at least stateful inspection
May 19 01:37:32 <luke-jr> crashanddie: really??
May 19 01:37:48 <crashanddie> odin_: really depends how the operator implements it
May 19 01:37:58 <luke-jr> gosh, I'm glad 4G requires IPv6
May 19 01:38:20 <odin_> crashanddie, yes hence why whipping up a STUN test client tool might actually be useful for Maemo :)
May 19 01:38:45 <Robot101> odin_: telepathy has at least two STUN implementations in it
May 19 01:38:51 <Robot101> odin_: just fire up a SIP connection and watch the debug log
May 19 01:39:00 <crashanddie> I've seen implementations (MTS, Ukraine), where the clients don't actually ever talk to the remote host (some weird DNS foo + https cheating)
May 19 01:39:37 <Robot101> and if that's not enough, you could also place a call on XMPP and watch the debug log there :D
May 19 01:39:48 <Robot101> there are sites like whatsmyip.com too
May 19 01:39:51 <crashanddie> they say it allows for "greater cache speed", I wouldn't be surprised if it also allowed for deep packed inspection, nice logging and MITM
May 19 01:40:00 <odin_> just yes there is a network protocol (over UDP/TCP) for performing NAT tests to see what type for connectivity you get from where you are
May 19 01:40:27 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: you really want your phone exposed to the wider internet - so that a portscan will keep your connection awake?
May 19 01:40:41 <SpeedEvil> and kill battery life?
May 19 01:40:50 <crashanddie> SpeedEvil: I'd hope not, I don't understand why people want their phones directly exposed to the web
May 19 01:40:59 * GAN900 is so tired of British people in US advertising.
May 19 01:41:14 <crashanddie> GAN900: trust me, we're tired of 'em in british ads too
May 19 01:41:16 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: I really want a proper firewall ISP side that I can control :p
May 19 01:41:24 <crashanddie> GAN900: heck, even the aussies are tired of brits in their ads
May 19 01:41:44 <GAN900> Aussies, too.
May 19 01:41:50 <odin_> less than 2 years on IPv4 about time on v6, might help deal with spam too
May 19 01:41:52 <GAN900> Stupid Outback commercials.
May 19 01:41:56 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: NAT is not a firewall, and firewall is not NAT
May 19 01:42:21 <GAN900> They make the poor Aussie pitcher on the Rays do Aussie slang quizes for Outback promotions.
May 19 01:42:40 <crashanddie> luke-jr: no, but with NAT's not tunneling anything back to anyone it really comes down to a single IP only spawning connections, and not accepting any
May 19 01:42:53 <luke-jr> crashanddie: that's the problem
May 19 01:43:09 <luke-jr> IPv6 with a proper customer-controlled firewall is the solution
May 19 01:43:56 <odin_> yes allowing the end device control the nature of the firewall it has upstream, would be really good, what does uPNP does in this regard ?
May 19 01:45:05 <crashanddie> GAN900: for what it's worth, ads from my birthmonth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pC1RSM8sO8
May 19 01:45:30 <odin_> are they black and white ?  or just radio audio ?
May 19 01:50:13 <luke-jr> odin_: uPNP does exactly that, yes
May 19 01:51:57 <crashanddie> uPNP is a danger
May 19 01:52:01 <odin_> luke-jr, I think it does more than that and I'm not sure it can have a "pass-all" mode, or "tcpdump filter" mode, its more like "setup a temporary DNAT port-mapping for inbound packets", which might not be feature full enough
May 19 01:52:09 <crashanddie> Allowing arbitrary devices to set up arbitrary routing rules
May 19 01:52:35 <javispedro> UPNP can be whatever you want it to be
May 19 01:53:34 <odin_> well I presume a uPNP client may only allow you to setup mappings to your client IP (providing the mapping isn't taken) and I presume it allows for arbitration/negotiation of the port numbers that can be used
May 19 01:53:51 <odin_> maybe some bad implementations of uPNP allow you to do silly insecure things
May 19 01:54:09 <javispedro> while what I'm going to say it's not entirely true, you can see upnp as a plain rpc protocol
May 19 01:54:47 <javispedro> ms (iirc) standarized a common home router device interface (yes, as in OO) for use by windows
May 19 01:55:16 <javispedro> which only has defined methods for port mappings and simple statistics
May 19 01:55:30 <javispedro> (like the packet counter on xp's network status dialog)
May 19 01:56:06 <odin_> sound useful!  maybe the filterd out packet/data count would be more useful!
May 19 01:56:08 <javispedro> but -- you want to add methods for "self_destroy()" you can do, ofc you'll have to design a custom client for it
May 19 01:56:50 <crashanddie> odin_: after seeing how prius managed to screw up simple functions like .accelerate(), you're telling me you trust toshiba with your router?
May 19 01:57:20 <odin_> he no, must router is linux, but maybe a toshiba one will go faster !  :)
May 19 01:57:28 <crashanddie> odin_: "bad implementations" are what manufacturers do to save costs. If it works, it's a sell. If it works before anyone else's, it's a million unit sold
May 19 01:57:44 <crashanddie> s/sold/sale/
May 19 01:57:44 <infobot> crashanddie meant: odin_: "bad implementations" are what manufacturers do to save costs. If it works, it's a sell. If it works before anyone else's, it's a million unit sale
May 19 01:59:36 <javispedro> yes, toshiba's router will have a 128 MiB rootfs only =)
May 19 02:00:13 <GAN900> Somebody needs to vote down the d-iilvil themes for putting install instructions in the short description.
May 19 02:00:25 * crashanddie taps fingers like mister burns, while murmuring "Excellent", and waiting for the next DCC SEND bug
May 19 02:00:51 <odin_> what is the law on distributing an application but when the user installs it, the application goes an downloads directly other publicly available data (but not redistributable) ?
May 19 02:01:23 <crashanddie> odin_: pretty much the same as distributing p2p software
May 19 02:01:39 <crashanddie> odin_: basically, don't distribute the links with the software, make the user type in the URL
May 19 02:01:42 <javispedro> aka noone knows. shoot the lawyers first then ask questions.
May 19 02:02:32 <crashanddie> odin_: if the URL points to copyrighted material, and you hardcoded the URL into the app, and had control of the URL's content, you are liable
May 19 02:03:21 <odin_> well the user installing will not see a URL but they will have to acknowldge the action a "robot" goes and does on their behalf, with them taking 1st person responsibility for data usage, I can't see how making them type anything in makes a difference
May 19 02:03:26 <crashanddie> odin_: if however the URL points to an excellent Google ranking for the words "pittipot damiclou", well, fair game really
May 19 02:04:10 <crashanddie> odin_: because you providing specific software doesn't link it with specific material when the user has to find it separately, and type it in manually?
May 19 02:04:16 <crashanddie> (or by clicking on a .torrent file)
May 19 02:05:04 <crashanddie> whereas, if it automatically downloads a file (in other words: the only possible outcome of downloading and installing the software and then running it will result in the user ending up with illegal/copyrighted material), then you are liable for spreading a means to acquire illegal content.
May 19 02:05:25 <odin_> this is nothing to do with torrents or P2P, the data is actually on a website (and is already publicly available data), I see the torrent being used in the process of distributing copyrighted material that neither the holder, sender, network or receiver have rights to
May 19 02:05:50 <odin_> think more like a new aggregation, information comes from news site, thats is much closer analogy
May 19 02:06:05 <crashanddie> then explain your stuff properly in the first place?
May 19 02:06:09 <odin_> s/new/news/
May 19 02:06:09 <infobot> odin_ meant: think more like a news aggregation, information comes from news site, thats is much closer analogy
May 19 02:06:49 <crashanddie> though, if it's not redistributable, it probably means they need to accept some kind of ToS or UL
May 19 02:07:02 <crashanddie> who is hosting the info?
May 19 02:07:11 <crashanddie> you or the owners?
May 19 02:07:20 <odin_> you install a program and during the install a robot goes and obtains information that is publicly available (and having dubious copyright/fair-use rights to view/use it)
May 19 02:07:41 <crashanddie> you are trying to undust the stick to get yourself beaten mate
May 19 02:07:42 <odin_> the owners of the info, no redistribution is going on, a robot goes and gets it direct every time
May 19 02:07:53 <crashanddie> stop talking about a robot
May 19 02:08:06 <crashanddie> the computer doesn't do it out of its own mind, you instruct it to
May 19 02:08:10 <crashanddie> (or the user)
May 19 02:08:13 <odin_> a robot is a computerized thing that the owner of the computer commands
May 19 02:08:38 <crashanddie> odin_: if it has dubious copyright, stay well clear of it
May 19 02:08:39 <odin_> that is why I use the term "robot"
May 19 02:08:50 <crashanddie> link to material?
May 19 02:08:51 <odin_> its not dubious copyright in that way!
May 19 02:09:00 <odin_> say a companys logo on their homepage
May 19 02:09:08 <crashanddie> that is publicly available (and having dubious copyright/fair-use rights to view/use it)
May 19 02:09:16 <odin_> it is dubious what copyright they have to it, since its public information
May 19 02:09:26 <crashanddie> erhm, no, it's not
May 19 02:09:41 <odin_> so any claim to copyright is dubious, since it is being used in the way the website intended, i.e. to be downlaoded
May 19 02:09:51 <crashanddie> just because it's publicly accessible doesn't mean you're entitled to use it freely as you wish
May 19 02:10:00 <odin_> Im not using it
May 19 02:10:05 <odin_> the user the robot is
May 19 02:10:12 <crashanddie> oh ffs, stfu
May 19 02:10:22 <odin_> ok
May 19 02:10:38 <crashanddie> try to make that distinction in court, I'm telling you what's what, now stop playing dumbass
May 19 02:10:51 <crashanddie> either you need to start listening, or you don't ask a question you want no answer to
May 19 02:11:14 <crashanddie> fucking troll
May 19 02:11:16 <odin_> not are not telling my anything, since you are not understanding it in the same terms, you are citing terms that don't seem related to what I'm explaining
May 19 02:11:39 <odin_> fair enough
May 19 02:52:29 <luke-jr> crashanddie: I think I get odin_, as bad as he is expressing his idea
May 19 02:53:19 <luke-jr> crashanddie: basically, he's talking about software that automatically downloads copyrighted material from the copyright holder's legitimate distribution site
May 19 02:53:24 * DocScrutinizer points to google maps and other web services, as an example for owner of copyright has the right to define what he thinks is fair use
May 19 02:53:39 <crashanddie> exactly
May 19 02:53:51 <luke-jr> for example, the Gentoo N8x0 overlay's ability to automatically download Nokia copyrighted material from Nokia's server
May 19 02:53:51 <crashanddie> luke-jr: just because it's *accessible* doesn't make it *free of use*
May 19 02:54:08 <luke-jr> crashanddie: because Nokia is doing the distribution, there is no copyright infringement
May 19 02:54:48 <crashanddie> and more specifically, I can have a picture on my website, and say anyone who hotlinks, or copies that, or makes it being displayed through anything else than my full website is copyright infringment
May 19 02:54:53 <luke-jr> copyright only restricts very specific uses-- namely, distribution
May 19 02:54:53 <odin_> I wasn't trying to cause anyone any ago, but it seems to be an issue in the "mobile application" area
May 19 02:54:59 <odin_> s/ago/agro/
May 19 02:55:00 <infobot> odin_ meant: I wasn't trying to cause anyone any agro, but it seems to be an issue in the "mobile application" area
May 19 02:55:13 <luke-jr> once you legally obtain a copy, it's up to you how you want to use it, unless you've signed/agreed to a contract restricting your usage in the meantime
May 19 02:55:23 <luke-jr> crashanddie: that is utter nonsense
May 19 02:55:29 <crashanddie> luke-jr: erhm, no, it's not
May 19 02:55:39 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: that's bullshit
May 19 02:56:06 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: then why does Nokia require agreeing to a contract *before* they distribute the data?
May 19 02:56:17 <crashanddie> because that's their policy
May 19 02:56:24 <crashanddie> doesn't mean everyone's policy is the same
May 19 02:56:26 <DocScrutinizer> because they decide to do so
May 19 02:56:26 <luke-jr> because it's necessary to control usage
May 19 02:56:38 <crashanddie> luke-jr: reading an article on a blog doesn't allow you to repost it somewhere else
May 19 02:56:40 <DocScrutinizer> no!!!
May 19 02:56:45 <luke-jr> crashanddie: I didn't say it does
May 19 02:56:50 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: exactly
May 19 02:56:51 <crashanddie> luke-jr: even though you had the legal right to "obtain a copy"
May 19 02:56:58 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: you did
May 19 02:56:59 <luke-jr> crashanddie: that's not the same thing at all
May 19 02:57:11 <luke-jr> this is like putting an <iframe> on your site referring to that blog
May 19 02:57:24 <odin_> mobile application writer (and copyright holder of that app) writes an app, that acts as a robot for the user of the app, which goes and use re-uses information freely available from the internet.  the copyright breacher (if there is one) is the app user, since the app writer did not command the robot to perform the breach (the user explicitly was told and consented to an action)
May 19 02:57:30 <DocScrutinizer> which also is a copyright infringement
May 19 02:57:46 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: nope, an iframe doesn't copy anything
May 19 02:58:05 <DocScrutinizer> tell that to the lawyers
May 19 02:58:10 <crashanddie> luke-jr: actually, it displays copyrighted content under your copyrighted page, which is a pretty grey area
May 19 02:58:11 <luke-jr> the viewer's browser makes a request to YOUR server, and YOUR server gives a response
May 19 02:58:34 <luke-jr> all the copying of YOUR content is done by YOUR server which is YOUR responsibility
May 19 02:58:38 <crashanddie> luke-jr: it's seriously not clear cut, there are many cases going on about hotlinking
May 19 02:58:58 <SpeedEvil> And it's gone different ways in different jurisdictions
May 19 02:59:04 <luke-jr> if someone doesn't like it, they can refuse requests with unknown Referer headers
May 19 02:59:12 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: here in Germany you may go to jail for keeping a href link to a site with incriminate material on your site
May 19 02:59:26 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: not for copyright infringemnet
May 19 02:59:29 <odin_> the court my hear, that at all times the copyright owner had control to manage distribution of their material (but failed to do so), however disk caching the object maybe grey area too
May 19 02:59:38 <luke-jr> copyright infringement is a civil matter, not criminal
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 19 02:59:57 2010