**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 11 02:59:57 2010
Jun 11 03:00:22 <flailingmonkey> yes, prepaid can be very affordable
Jun 11 03:00:34 <flailingmonkey> at least in finland
Jun 11 03:00:46 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> hey, I might even visit finland
Jun 11 03:00:49 <Proteous> in the US it can be if you only want a voice plan
Jun 11 03:01:02 <Proteous> the prepaid data offerings pretty much all suck
Jun 11 03:01:18 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> so how do I prevent spending on a US tmo plan when I'm out of the country?
Jun 11 03:01:19 <Proteous> except for fanegaling the tmobile plan like we were talking about
Jun 11 03:01:38 <Proteous> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: you seem to think that if you keep asking that somehow the reality of the situation is going to change
Jun 11 03:02:07 <Proteous> spend the $80 to keep your plan active for 2 months
Jun 11 03:02:11 <Proteous> that is the solution
Jun 11 03:03:18 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> lol
Jun 11 03:03:33 <budfive> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: if you're extra-cheap you can turn off the $10/mo data for when you're not there
Jun 11 03:03:54 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I'm thinking about trying the sidekick plan
Jun 11 03:04:02 <budfive> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: link?
Jun 11 03:04:02 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> can the provider tell what kind of phone you have?
Jun 11 03:04:16 <simula> $10/month for data?  what?
Jun 11 03:04:18 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/Cell-Phone-Plans.aspx?catgroup=Individual&WT.z_shop_plansLP=individual
Jun 11 03:04:38 <flailingmonkey> yeah, sidekick is a special case
Jun 11 03:05:30 <simula> dang that's expensive
Jun 11 03:05:43 <simula> i use a prepaid and rely on my wifi
Jun 11 03:05:54 <simula> less than $10/month
Jun 11 03:06:18 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> in the US?
Jun 11 03:06:35 <simula> yulps
Jun 11 03:08:39 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> which plan is that?
Jun 11 03:08:45 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> only data prepaid?
Jun 11 03:08:53 <simula> only voice prepaid
Jun 11 03:08:59 <simula> i rely on external wifi for my data
Jun 11 03:09:25 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> ah
Jun 11 03:09:28 <simula> there are a couple open hotspots where i eat lunch, the only time i really use a connection
Jun 11 03:09:31 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> yeah, I'd like 3g
Jun 11 03:09:52 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> i thought I'd be able to get a sim for every country i visit to keep costs down
Jun 11 03:10:32 <luke-jr> simula: prepaid monthly, or prepaid per minute? O.o
Jun 11 03:10:39 <luke-jr> my wife uses 70 hours in a month -.-
Jun 11 03:11:27 <simula> ahhh, i use mine rarely... it was for a set number of minutes and it lasts a year
Jun 11 03:12:10 <simula> i paid $100 for it
Jun 11 03:13:45 <flailingmonkey> its quite amazing how much use a phone can get, even just with a feature phone
Jun 11 03:28:54 <flailingmonkey> why are most people on IRC in Europe...
Jun 11 03:29:12 <Proteous> most people in Europe are on IRC?
Jun 11 03:29:47 <Proteous> or most people are on IRC servers located in Europe?
Jun 11 03:30:11 <Proteous> or most of the people who use irc are from Europe?
Jun 11 03:30:42 <Proteous> isn't english fun
Jun 11 03:33:34 <flailingmonkey> very fun is
Jun 11 03:34:45 <ohwhyme> LoL
Jun 11 03:35:04 <flailingmonkey> new try, most people in #maemo seem to be from Europe
Jun 11 03:35:28 <flailingmonkey> s/#maemo/#maemo at this moment/
Jun 11 03:35:29 <infobot> flailingmonkey meant: new try, most people in #maemo at this moment seem to be from Europe
Jun 11 03:42:16 <derf> Sigh, Mappero is still unusably bad, I see.
Jun 11 04:16:51 <flailingmonkey> what does that one do?
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 11 04:19:31 2010
Jun 11 04:24:02 <flailingmonkey> gnight, 0023 localtime
Jun 11 04:26:07 <sprite> hello, is this the right place for troubleshooting a problem with my n900?
Jun 11 04:26:17 <sprite> my N900 screen saver has started coming on during movies which is VERY annoying
Jun 11 04:29:29 <ptl> it is
Jun 11 04:29:52 <ptl> during movies --- which player are you using?
Jun 11 04:30:02 <sprite> the default player 'movie player'
Jun 11 04:30:03 <ptl> have you tried using simple brightness applet?
Jun 11 04:31:03 <sprite> ptl: how do you mean? I've not installed anything except the new maemo kernel update recently.
Jun 11 04:31:40 <ptl> I dunno, some people say this application help avoiding screen blanking at wrong times.
Jun 11 04:31:53 <ptl> s/help/helps/
Jun 11 04:31:54 <infobot> ptl meant: I dunno, some people say this application helps avoiding screen blanking at wrong times.
Jun 11 04:32:47 <sprite> well i can turn the screensaver off. but obviously that's a pretty poor fix
Jun 11 04:33:08 <ptl> let me see if I have this issue.
Jun 11 04:33:31 * ptl starts playing a movie in his N900.
Jun 11 04:35:12 <ptl> so far, nothing, image still on
Jun 11 04:35:20 <ptl> and I'm using PR1.2
Jun 11 04:35:39 <sprite> PR1.2? is that the default player?
Jun 11 04:35:52 <ptl> no... lol
Jun 11 04:35:54 <ptl> PR1.2 is the latest maemo update.
Jun 11 04:36:26 <ptl> no issues here, default movie player is playing the flick correctly and not blanking the screen
Jun 11 04:36:45 <sprite> my version is 10.2?
Jun 11 04:36:54 <ptl> ?
Jun 11 04:37:13 <sprite> maemo 10.2010.19
Jun 11 04:37:18 <ptl> yep
Jun 11 04:37:22 <ptl> that's the one
Jun 11 04:37:27 <Macer> i know i asked this before but does anybody know how i can add a fn key to the xterm toolbar so i can use f1 - f10?
Jun 11 04:37:40 <Macer> i still havent found any info for it :(
Jun 11 04:37:53 <ptl> Macer: I've written a tutorial for it, just a minute.
Jun 11 04:38:11 <Macer> ptl: awesome.. thanks so much
Jun 11 04:38:20 <Macer> i want to use htop and mc
Jun 11 04:38:22 <Macer> :)
Jun 11 04:38:33 <Macer> they use f keys
Jun 11 04:38:53 <Macer> mc especially.. need it to manage files a little easier over ssh
Jun 11 04:39:32 <sprite> ptl: any idea how i can trouble shoot this problem. the backlight turns off exactly after 30 seconds (as set in settings).
Jun 11 04:39:52 <ptl> Macer: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=660761#post660761
Jun 11 04:40:07 <ptl> I don't know the codes for the F<x> keys, though, but you might be able to google for that
Jun 11 04:40:27 <ptl> you can get the keysyms list here: http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/List_of_keysyms
Jun 11 04:40:52 <ptl> sprite: I dunno, maybe you should post a message in talk.maemo.org to see if someone can help you.
Jun 11 04:41:19 <ptl> F1 through 20     0x0100 through 0x0113     Fx keys are used for string mappings.
Jun 11 04:41:25 <ptl> cool, it has the F<x> keys.
Jun 11 04:41:36 <sprite> LOL, i think i will have too. it's not doing it now
Jun 11 04:42:54 <Macer> heh
Jun 11 04:43:56 <Macer> ptl, i am actually trying to figure out a way to make it like ctrl on the special key toolbar
Jun 11 04:44:12 <Macer> where Fn will work like ctrl does.. and stay locked down
Jun 11 04:44:40 <Macer> and keeping it locked lets you press 1 through 0 for f1 through f10
Jun 11 04:44:55 <ptl> Control_Lock     0x0a02
Jun 11 04:45:16 <Macer> remind me to go on maemo.org and request this as a default feature for xterm heh
Jun 11 04:45:52 <ptl> Shift_Lock     0x0a00     _Lock keys toggle the relevant modifier's default state; Caps_Lock is the exception as Caps is not a modifier
Jun 11 04:45:56 <ptl> AltGr_Lock     0x0a01     AltRLock is a synonym
Jun 11 04:45:58 <ptl>  
Jun 11 04:46:01 <ptl> Read more: http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/List_of_keysyms#ixzz0qW5gUnRe
Jun 11 04:46:11 <Macer> heh
Jun 11 04:46:52 <Macer> dont think altgr is what i am looking for.. but let me try it out
Jun 11 04:49:50 <Macer> no offense.. but the maemo theme is ugly as sin
Jun 11 04:49:52 <Macer> :)
Jun 11 04:50:52 <ptl> I agree
Jun 11 04:50:54 <ptl> I use iStyle light
Jun 11 04:56:14 <Macer> |
Jun 11 04:56:24 <Macer> pipe is in the vkb
Jun 11 04:56:30 <Macer> :)
Jun 11 04:56:39 <Macer> guess quicker access?
Jun 11 04:56:56 <Macer> i dont see anything that lets me lock fn :(
Jun 11 04:57:07 <Macer> maybe i can find some other way to do it
Jun 11 05:03:19 <budfive> Macer: fyi, htop has mouse support
Jun 11 05:03:38 <budfive> Macer: you can click on the labels that say "f2: blah"
Jun 11 05:04:35 <Macer> budfive: over ssh? ;)
Jun 11 05:04:44 <budfive> oh
Jun 11 05:04:56 <Macer> mc is more important
Jun 11 05:05:03 <budfive> Macer: you ssh from your phone and run htop on the client machine?
Jun 11 05:05:08 <budfive> might work. let me try
Jun 11 05:05:24 <Macer> not really... but mc doesnt let you click.. i use mc on a remote box
Jun 11 05:05:47 <Macer> i wonder if i can add a 2nd bar for f1-f10
Jun 11 05:05:54 <budfive> yes
Jun 11 05:05:55 <budfive> works
Jun 11 05:05:56 <budfive> :)
Jun 11 05:06:01 <Macer> heh
Jun 11 05:06:22 <Macer> that may be the best solution even tho i dont want to lose the screen space
Jun 11 05:06:33 <Macer> but what can you do ? ;)
Jun 11 05:06:58 <Macer> would be nice to have maybe.. an option in xterm to make it pop up and go away
Jun 11 05:07:18 <Macer> like "enable function bar"
Jun 11 05:07:44 <Macer> "disable function bar" in the xterm menu
Jun 11 05:08:45 <Macer> for now i think i will just add rename and move f keys for mc.. but that is a crappy quick fix and i dont have the time to mess with this for too long
Jun 11 05:08:56 <budfive> Macer: mouse works for mc too
Jun 11 05:08:59 <budfive> just tried it
Jun 11 05:09:05 <Macer> budfive: over ssh?
Jun 11 05:09:08 <budfive> Macer: it's a function of ncurses
Jun 11 05:09:10 <budfive> Macer: yes
Jun 11 05:09:15 <Macer> really:
Jun 11 05:09:17 <Macer> ??
Jun 11 05:09:19 <Macer> wow
Jun 11 05:09:22 <Macer> let me try it
Jun 11 05:09:23 <budfive> Macer: it's a function of ncurses
Jun 11 05:09:31 <Macer> in screen?
Jun 11 05:09:33 <Macer> :)
Jun 11 05:11:14 <Macer> well.. that helps a ton budfive
Jun 11 05:11:20 <budfive> :)
Jun 11 05:11:27 <Macer> but i still need the f keys for screen
Jun 11 05:11:30 <budfive> Macer: ncurses is cool :)
Jun 11 05:11:36 <Macer> mouse doesnt work in screen
Jun 11 05:11:57 <Macer> budfive: hehe.. yeah.. tbh didnt know it could do that
Jun 11 05:12:29 <budfive> Macer: I've never really used mc. What do you use it for?
Jun 11 05:12:33 <budfive> Macer: any killer features?
Jun 11 05:20:05 <Macer> not really
Jun 11 05:20:27 <Macer> it is just that renaming files and moving them with the term can be a bitch
Jun 11 05:20:31 <Macer> :)
Jun 11 05:25:25 <Macer> well.. bbl.. thanks a lot for the help
Jun 11 05:41:36 <pigeon> does anyone know if an imaps server with a self signed cert will work with nokia messaging?
Jun 11 05:50:16 <pigeon> hmm, ah: http://discussions.mea.nokia.com/t5/Messaging-Email-and-Browsing/N/m-p/456516
Jun 11 06:08:52 <mece> Good morning maemonians!
Jun 11 06:26:32 <nas_> goodmorning mece !
Jun 11 06:43:38 <Stskeeps> morn tekojo
Jun 11 06:49:32 <solrize> anyone know if the n900 can decode avchd 1080i in real time?
Jun 11 06:50:19 <mece> solrize, I don't really know, but my guess is that no, it can't.
Jun 11 06:50:48 <solrize> tx
Jun 11 06:51:35 <stonda> my old Pentium 4 3.2ghz even can't do that, so go figure.
Jun 11 06:51:48 <mece> I know nothing about the standard though, but anything with 1080 in the name is usually a bit miuch for omap3
Jun 11 06:52:18 <solrize> i thought maybe decoding takes less cycles than encoding
Jun 11 06:54:46 <sandst1> yep it does
Jun 11 06:55:04 <luke-jr> stonda: P4 sucks though
Jun 11 06:55:40 <stonda> well that's for sure. :)
Jun 11 06:56:05 <stonda> but gives a good measurement
Jun 11 06:56:08 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> anyone here use the sidekick plan from tmo (1$/day for unlimited data)?
Jun 11 06:57:15 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> also you guys recommend any cases for the n900?
Jun 11 06:57:36 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I'm pretty sure cehteh was talking about building cases for it
Jun 11 06:57:47 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I'm very interested if you'd like to pm me about the ones you've built
Jun 11 06:57:48 <cehteh> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: yes
Jun 11 06:57:57 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> awesome
Jun 11 06:57:57 <mece> my boss has a nice leathery one that is pretty sweet..
Jun 11 06:58:05 <cehteh> http://git.pipapo.org/n900case/n900_shell.html
Jun 11 06:58:25 <mece> cehteh, DUDE! That is soo sweet!
Jun 11 06:59:20 <cehteh> next comes a bike holder :P
Jun 11 06:59:21 <tekojo> Stskeeps: morning, morning coffee raged ot of control again :)
Jun 11 06:59:47 <Stskeeps> heh
Jun 11 06:59:51 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> bike holder?
Jun 11 07:01:02 <cehteh> clamp the n900 onto the bike handlebar
Jun 11 07:01:08 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> oh wow
Jun 11 07:01:11 <cehteh> shock and water proof
Jun 11 07:01:23 <sandst1> solrize: here's a demo of a 720p MPEG-4 running on OMAP3 beagle board http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdnDpH3543Q, that one has a bit more kick than n900 though :)
Jun 11 07:01:26 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I used to be a bike messenger in chicago and my plan was to do just that
Jun 11 07:01:36 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> how will you make it water proof?
Jun 11 07:01:37 <cehteh> possibly with DC from hub-dynamo :)
Jun 11 07:01:52 <solrize> tx, maybe the next gen hardware can do 1080
Jun 11 07:01:59 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> if you make more than one, then I might like to buy one off of you
Jun 11 07:02:26 <cehteh> actually i made 2, the frist one in the photo is a hasty prototype
Jun 11 07:02:57 <solrize> nice shells, i wonder why the phone makers don't include stuff like that
Jun 11 07:03:00 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> do you not like any ones from companies like otterbox?
Jun 11 07:03:03 <solrize> the otter commuter cases have gotten nice reviews
Jun 11 07:03:23 <cehteh> but there is a lot efforts put into this things, i dont make a business from that, counting the work-hours this thing should cost 50 Eur at least :P
Jun 11 07:03:25 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> think they're like $35
Jun 11 07:03:40 <cehteh> does otterbox make a n900 case meanwhile?
Jun 11 07:03:50 <solrize> yes they have a couple
Jun 11 07:03:52 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> yeah - so you think yours are a lot better than an otterbox for example
Jun 11 07:03:58 <solrize> the "commuter" is the good one apparently
Jun 11 07:04:05 <cehteh> a friend of me has a generic otterbox for a n810 but it looks bit ugly
Jun 11 07:04:42 <cehteh> http://www.christeck.de/wp/2009/02/28/nokia-n810-in-a-home-grown-bike-mount/
Jun 11 07:05:21 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> nice, but don't you want to be able to use it?
Jun 11 07:05:27 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> like check out maps and directions and such?
Jun 11 07:05:41 <mece> oh my boss has this one: http://kauppa.nokia.fi/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productdetail_10513_10107_-12_80000409
Jun 11 07:06:08 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I might just go case-less
Jun 11 07:06:24 <mece> case-less ftw!
Jun 11 07:06:25 <cehteh> well i think you have to make some compromises, for example when you leave the touchpad reachable that means a crash can damage the display because its unprotected
Jun 11 07:06:42 <mece> although I do regret not using a screenprotector.
Jun 11 07:06:45 <cehteh> i also bike at rainy days sometimes
Jun 11 07:06:47 <mece> it's a bit late now though.
Jun 11 07:06:54 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> what happened mece?
Jun 11 07:07:06 <cehteh> scratches, what else :)
Jun 11 07:07:19 <mece> well nothing really, but it's rather scratched. I suppose I could get one before it gets more scratched, but I don't really feel like it.
Jun 11 07:07:29 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> yeah, but from what?
Jun 11 07:07:48 <mece> I got one deep scratch that I got the first day I had it. dunno how it happened.
Jun 11 07:07:50 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I just wont keep anything in my pocket with it
Jun 11 07:07:54 <cehteh> the touchscreen is plastic, not glass
Jun 11 07:07:59 <mece> others are tiny, but they are there.
Jun 11 07:08:09 <Lynoure> I got kind of lucky and PDAir stuff for my Palm Treo fits N900 quite prettily
Jun 11 07:08:23 <mece> regular use. I use it constantly and don't have time to be gentle.
Jun 11 07:08:24 <cehteh> my screenprotector has one scratch at a side .. happy to have it :)
Jun 11 07:08:43 <mece> I've got 4 small kids, so there's sand and dirt everywhere. I guess that's the main reason for the smaller scratches.
Jun 11 07:08:47 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> isn't it even less responsive in a screen protector?
Jun 11 07:08:55 <cehteh> not noticeable
Jun 11 07:08:57 <sandst1> nope
Jun 11 07:09:01 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> interesting
Jun 11 07:09:08 <Lynoure> http://www.pdair.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=10100000_1900000_11000787&products_id=27477 looks quite decent too
Jun 11 07:09:11 <cehteh> depends a bit on the brand of the screen protector
Jun 11 07:09:33 <mece> I thought it would be, that's why i dint use one. but my friiends protector is just amazing. and VERY slick. better than without it even.
Jun 11 07:09:34 <cehteh> this rubbery things dont feel good
Jun 11 07:09:50 <cehteh> the stylus sinks in and you cant use it comfortably
Jun 11 07:10:01 <sandst1> i've got that one http://www.amazon.com/Premium-Protectors-Accessory-Export-Packaging/dp/B00333A0TW and it's pretty much unnnoticeable
Jun 11 07:10:15 <cehteh> Lynoure: yeah that looks cool
Jun 11 07:11:05 <mece> damn now that you're talking about it, I think I'm gonna get one of those protectors.
Jun 11 07:11:08 <cehteh> Lynoure: if that would be available in january i wouldnt have build mine
Jun 11 07:11:19 <mece> might stop my stylus and nails from getting stuck in my big scratch
Jun 11 07:12:42 <mece> the nokia CP-408 leather case thing has a nice lid on it that has soft fabric on the inside. pretty good protection against scratches. and it's not that expensive either.
Jun 11 07:12:56 <mece> but not as comfy as one that doesn't have a lid I suppose.
Jun 11 07:13:06 <mece> it's a matter of taste I suppose.
Jun 11 07:13:27 <lostinmirkwood_> [ANNOUNCE] Ansel-A: Digital Darkroom for N900 released! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55861
Jun 11 07:13:31 <Lynoure> cehteh: Building one's own stuff is way cooler, though.
Jun 11 07:14:24 <cehteh> but in materials it costed more (or about the same maybe) plus a lot of labour
Jun 11 07:14:28 <mece> lostinmirkwood_, wow. Looks awesome!
Jun 11 07:14:44 <lostinmirkwood_> thanks guys, for all your help here on #maemo
Jun 11 07:15:00 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> yes #maemo is great
Jun 11 07:15:08 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> one of the reasons I got the phone actually
Jun 11 07:15:25 <mece> lostinmirkwood_, is it in devel?
Jun 11 07:16:12 <sandst1> lostinmirkwood_: WOW
Jun 11 07:17:30 <lostinmirkwood_> mece yeah it is but i just submitted it to nokia's calling all innovators, so i also promoted it to testing.
Jun 11 07:18:10 <mece> what the shit
Jun 11 07:18:23 <mece> ham says 0.8-1
Jun 11 07:18:27 <mece> aah need to update first.
Jun 11 07:18:43 <mece> man I can't wait to test this!
Jun 11 07:19:47 <lostinmirkwood_> ergh, why is that happening seems like everyone has 0.8-1 which was, let's say a dud release. v0.9-1 is the one promoted to testing.
Jun 11 07:20:10 <solrize> http://www.peltor.com/peltor.com/comm_detail.cfm?prod_family=BlueTooth%20Headsets&ind_prod_num=MT53H7AWS2001    here's the bluetooth headset i want ;)
Jun 11 07:20:28 <mece> solrize, it's such a new release and everyones lists aren't updated yet.
Jun 11 07:21:27 <solrize> lostinmirkwood_, ansel-a looks great but is it unfeasible to run gimp or something like that on the n900?
Jun 11 07:21:57 <solrize> it's written in python?  cool
Jun 11 07:22:34 <mece> solrize, gimp is very slow on N900. It works though. If ansel-a does what you need, you'll have a much nicer experience.
Jun 11 07:22:41 <solrize> cool
Jun 11 07:22:44 <mece> gimp via easy debian that is.
Jun 11 07:22:53 <solrize> one thing i wish gimp had was an easy way to put arrows into a picture
Jun 11 07:23:01 <mece> arrows?
Jun 11 07:23:16 <lostinmirkwood_> solrize it sure is and i have, it's just my contribution to the community, specifically for simple photo touchups not full blow gimp.
Jun 11 07:23:26 <solrize> yeah, to make 8x10 color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one ;)
Jun 11 07:23:35 <cehteh> my 'conversations' doesnt show any conversations since 1.2 update anymore wasnt there a bug or so?
Jun 11 07:23:45 <mece> lostinmirkwood_, put a link to this page: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/ansela/0.9-1/ on the announce post
Jun 11 07:23:52 <mece> so you get some votes.
Jun 11 07:24:01 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> yeah, if any of you guys find a waterproof case for the n900 that still allows you to use it - that would be sick
Jun 11 07:24:15 <solrize> lostinmirkwood_, cool, i wish i could use it (i don't have an n900 for now)
Jun 11 07:24:31 <lostinmirkwood_> ah i will, put the link.
Jun 11 07:24:44 <solrize> ljsdofuynsdfufuh, maybe you could just use a sealed pelican case and a bluetooth headset
Jun 11 07:25:09 <mece> ok., 0.9-1 comes up after a "refresh" in HAM
Jun 11 07:25:15 <solrize> bbl
Jun 11 07:25:30 <lostinmirkwood_> solrize what are you running? it's pyQt so it'll run on a n8xx i think
Jun 11 07:25:46 <Duckboot> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Melt plastic round the N900 - Should be waterproof, but the usability part.....
Jun 11 07:25:54 <mece> LOL
Jun 11 07:26:18 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> lol
Jun 11 07:26:26 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> hey, any of you use VoIP via 3g?
Jun 11 07:26:45 <mece> ljsdofuynsdfufuh, does skype count?
Jun 11 07:26:55 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I guess - why not?
Jun 11 07:27:07 <mece> ljsdofuynsdfufuh, well then I do every now and then :)
Jun 11 07:27:16 <mece> ljsdofuynsdfufuh, what about it?
Jun 11 07:27:24 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> i might just go without voice if i can
Jun 11 07:27:32 <Stskeeps> morn andre__
Jun 11 07:27:39 <andre__> heja Stskeeps
Jun 11 07:27:40 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> data is 1$/day unlimited and voice is 15cents/min
Jun 11 07:27:45 <Stskeeps> andre__: how goes?
Jun 11 07:27:51 <mece> oooh the eyecandu!
Jun 11 07:28:58 <mece> s/eyecandu/eyecandy/
Jun 11 07:28:58 <infobot> mece meant: oooh the eyecandy!
Jun 11 07:30:32 <andre__> Stskeeps, just arrived in Berlin. Work for two hours, then LinuxTag :)
Jun 11 07:32:11 <Stskeeps> andre__: cool :)
Jun 11 07:33:42 <mece> there's a method to find all files installed from a certain package, right?
Jun 11 07:33:47 <mece> with dpkg and whatnot
Jun 11 07:33:49 <Stskeeps> dpkg -
Jun 11 07:33:51 <Stskeeps> L
Jun 11 07:33:57 <mece> big L ok.
Jun 11 07:34:00 <mece> capital even
Jun 11 07:34:40 <mece> nice. good way to check optification. thanks.
Jun 11 07:39:01 <mece> Stskeeps, can make that show me the filesizes and such (by piping it to ls or something)
Jun 11 07:39:40 <Stskeeps> xargs ls?
Jun 11 07:44:20 <Macer> hm
Jun 11 07:44:42 <Macer> does the web browser in 1.2 seem a little flakey to anybody else?
Jun 11 07:44:46 <Macer> where it keeps randomly crashing?
Jun 11 07:45:42 <Milhouse> Macer: Can't say, I tend to use Opera more these days
Jun 11 07:45:44 <Macer> usually it does it to me when i type in an address and it tries to pull up its version of the ff awesomebar
Jun 11 07:45:47 <Macer> :)
Jun 11 07:46:02 <Macer> Milhouse: microb isn't too bad... i wanted to try out chromium
Jun 11 07:46:09 <Macer> i don't like google that much.. but chrome is great
Jun 11 07:47:18 <Milhouse> Macer: I find Opera starts more quickly - whenever I start MicroB from the bookmark screen it takes an age to load the first page (which is typically my list of bookmarks I have hosted on my own website... it's as if it's loading stuff into memory or reaaaaly slow to start resolving DNS)
Jun 11 07:47:55 <Milhouse> Macer: I tried Chromium but it crashed way too much - barely worked.
Jun 11 07:48:01 <Duckboot> Milhouse: Same behaviour here - Seems like MicroB have some DNS issues.
Jun 11 07:48:24 <ohwhyme> milhouse: u happen to have a solution so that pages dont show the mobile version of their website?
Jun 11 07:48:38 <Duckboot> Milhouse: And the Speeddial in Opera is a killer feature.
Jun 11 07:48:46 <Milhouse> Macer: I notice the new Safari has DNS prefetching - might be useful for MicroB :)
Jun 11 07:48:49 <Macer> i get that problem with a few sites.. where it seems to take a while.. but i don't see how microb would have much to do with the dns
Jun 11 07:49:32 <Milhouse> ohwhyme: in which browser? I don't normally have problems with Opera or MicroB - some sites have duff detection though
Jun 11 07:49:47 <Milhouse> Duckboot: agreed
Jun 11 07:49:53 <Duckboot> Macer: Better to use Opera-servers for DNS-resolving - They might even have a local DNS-cache or a full blown DNS locally.
Jun 11 07:50:52 <Milhouse> Macer: It only seems really slow to begin with, when loading the first page so may not be DNS but could be loading libraries or other stuff. In general though the DNS resolution doesn't seem to be lightning fast, maybe something that could be improved in future.
Jun 11 07:51:13 <Duckboot> BUT - and there is a capital but - I don't use Opera for sensitive browsing (Like logged in sessions at work), since my stuff is cached on a Opera Server, and I have no control over it.
Jun 11 07:51:19 <Macer> not if meego has anything to say about it!
Jun 11 07:51:21 * Macer hides
Jun 11 07:51:52 <Milhouse> Duckboot: is it cached if you are NOT using Opera Turbo?
Jun 11 07:52:07 <Surfa> shouldn't be
Jun 11 07:52:23 <Surfa> if we're not talking about opera mini
Jun 11 07:52:30 <Duckboot> Milhouse: Mmm - I think so, but I'm not sure. And, Not sure == Not use it.
Jun 11 07:52:35 <Milhouse> Surfa: That would suggest there is some control that Duckboot has whether his data is cached or not...
Jun 11 07:53:08 <Milhouse> Duckboot: I don't see why it would be cached if you are NOT using Turbo. Totally agree it would be when using Turbo.
Jun 11 07:53:46 * lcuk presses Milhouse's turbo button
Jun 11 07:54:11 * Milhouse remembers Turbo buttons on PCs... how cr@p they were :)
Jun 11 07:54:13 <Surfa> turbo is only mode when opera mobile is interacting with opera servers
Jun 11 07:54:28 <Surfa> oterwise it should go directly
Jun 11 07:54:35 <Milhouse> Surfa: Aye
Jun 11 07:55:05 <Milhouse> I stopped using Turbo because the graphics where too heavily compressed
Jun 11 07:55:18 <lcuk> over 3g my images are compressed anyway afaik
Jun 11 07:55:29 <Milhouse> by your ISP?
Jun 11 07:55:32 <lcuk> ya
Jun 11 07:55:36 <mece> ~seen lostinmirkwood
Jun 11 07:55:50 <infobot> lostinmirkwood is currently on #maemo (28m 10s), last said: '<alterego>, too bad seems that their installer for maemo has a bit of a bug.'.
Jun 11 07:55:50 <Milhouse> niiiice - who is it? mine is T-Mob UK, haven't noticed any obvious compression
Jun 11 07:56:26 <lcuk> Milhouse, o2
Jun 11 07:56:34 <Milhouse> ta
Jun 11 07:57:02 <Scelt> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53567&page=4&highlight=account-plugin-salut - anyone solved this problem?
Jun 11 07:57:10 <mece> lostinmirkwood, apparently a wiser tester than me found a blocker for Ansel-A. Here are some instructions to fix it: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=710001&postcount=31
Jun 11 07:57:47 <mece> Scelt, it says EDIT: Solved on #31...
Jun 11 07:59:26 <Scelt> wat
Jun 11 07:59:43 <mece> vat?
Jun 11 07:59:44 <Scelt> How to install an older version of telepahty?
Jun 11 07:59:49 <Scelt> I'm not installing older version
Jun 11 07:59:51 <Scelt> I'm upgrading
Jun 11 07:59:54 <mece> eehe ok.
Jun 11 07:59:55 <mece> LOL
Jun 11 07:59:58 <Scelt> apt-get dist-upgrade
Jun 11 08:00:12 <Scelt> fails with telepathy-extras and account-plugin-salut
Jun 11 08:00:25 <mece> Scelt, It was just the first thing I saw when I clicked your link.
Jun 11 08:00:27 <X-Fade> Why would you dist-upgrade?
Jun 11 08:00:41 <X-Fade> That is a nice way to set you up for a reflash.
Jun 11 08:01:12 <Scelt> Usually dist-upgrade works just as well
Jun 11 08:01:25 <Scelt> such as it has been working with debian and me since 2001
Jun 11 08:01:55 <X-Fade> Yes, but it has never been supported for Maemo.
Jun 11 08:02:27 <Scelt> no surprise for me. I would use the application manager gui if it wasn't so freaking slow
Jun 11 08:02:48 <mece> I did an apt-get install mp-fremantle-generic-pr on one of the updates. worked fine.
Jun 11 08:03:31 <mece> Scelt, disable testing and devel for more speed.
Jun 11 08:03:49 <Scelt> yeah, and actually not updating will speed it even more
Jun 11 08:03:54 <mece> X-Fade, how does the community SSU thing work on diablo?
Jun 11 08:04:05 <mece> scelt, what do you mean by that?
Jun 11 08:04:11 <Scelt> sarcasm
Jun 11 08:04:15 <mece> hee :D
Jun 11 08:04:42 <mece> it's annoying when one's sarcasm detector fails.
Jun 11 08:05:03 <Scelt> Can't disable devel and testing. I want to have the newest fmms changes immediately
Jun 11 08:05:19 <mece> Scelt, :)
Jun 11 08:06:01 <mece> hey frals, I finally went for fmms, and after a bit of messing about I actually got it working. Very nice :D
Jun 11 08:06:01 <Scelt> X-Fade: application manager fails just as well as dist-upgrade. any other ideas?
Jun 11 08:06:13 <mece> Scelt, what failed on dist-upgrade?
Jun 11 08:06:40 <Scelt> installing process, wait for details
Jun 11 08:06:50 * mece waits for details
Jun 11 08:07:28 <Scelt> /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon not found
Jun 11 08:07:38 <mece> wtf?
Jun 11 08:07:42 <Scelt> yeye
Jun 11 08:07:57 <mece> spooky. I hate it when my demons go missing.
Jun 11 08:08:13 <mece> Scelt, how about apt-get install mp-fremantle-generic-pr
Jun 11 08:08:33 <Scelt> that file is there
Jun 11 08:08:43 <Scelt> but for some reason install script wines about it
Jun 11 08:09:35 <crashanddie> does it cheese about it, too?
Jun 11 08:09:45 <Scelt> no, only wine
Jun 11 08:09:46 <mece> mm. I want wine and cheese
Jun 11 08:10:04 <Scelt> I want pus... let's let it be
Jun 11 08:10:09 <crashanddie> Scelt: oh, whine, sure.
Jun 11 08:10:20 <mece> hee
Jun 11 08:10:32 <Scelt> crashanddie: ya, got my typo but I thought you got it too so didn't care to fix
Jun 11 08:10:53 <crashanddie> I did, that was called sarcasm.
Jun 11 08:10:58 <Scelt> I know
Jun 11 08:11:19 <Scelt> but hey
Jun 11 08:11:23 <Scelt> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=653761
Jun 11 08:11:39 <Scelt> mohammed the fixer
Jun 11 08:11:48 <Scelt> all hail the MohammadAG51
Jun 11 08:11:49 <mece> indeed :D
Jun 11 08:11:59 <Scelt> nice fix I would say
Jun 11 08:13:08 <X-Fade> crashanddie: People can take that the wrong way, please be careful with that.
Jun 11 08:13:19 <mece> hey, in the symbols virtual keyboard, what character is second row leftmost?
Jun 11 08:13:45 <crashanddie> X-Fade: and if they do, I'll make sure to clarify it with them
Jun 11 08:14:22 <Macer> mece: tab
Jun 11 08:14:34 <X-Fade> crashanddie: Just don't want to lose valuable contributors like Mohammad because of misunderstandings.
Jun 11 08:14:57 <hypothermia> i cant find anything about chaning the windows manager.., killall hildon-home just reboot..
Jun 11 08:15:08 <crashanddie> X-Fade: you won't
Jun 11 08:16:05 <mece> Macer, does it say "tab" on it?
Jun 11 08:16:08 <hypothermia> doh, did you get what I asked?
Jun 11 08:16:20 <Scelt> I think Mohammad is such a nice guy that he can take all the jokes and pranks about himself. But maybe Mohammad is a bit of a crossed the line -subject.
Jun 11 08:16:23 <Scelt> Wait, what?
Jun 11 08:16:31 <mece> Macer, The missing one: http://s2.imgimg.de/uploads/Screenshot20100609212825f32b2f51png.png
Jun 11 08:16:36 <visz> mece, the button is blank
Jun 11 08:16:45 <visz> but there is one
Jun 11 08:16:52 <mece> oh. wait. these are dependent on languages
Jun 11 08:18:05 <simon> connection lost ... any other irc server i can use?
Jun 11 08:18:34 <Macer> mece: on my vkb it is tab
Jun 11 08:19:23 <Macer> your layout is different than mine
Jun 11 08:22:50 <Macer> ugh
Jun 11 08:22:58 <Macer> microb just crashed again
Jun 11 08:23:08 <Macer> it is starting to bug the hell out of me
Jun 11 08:24:57 <mece> Macer, that's not mine, but anyway the layout depends on what language you are using.
Jun 11 08:27:19 <Macer> mece: ah.. well.. i am using imperialistic US English
Jun 11 08:27:49 <Macer> soon the world shall be forced to use ounces and pounds!
Jun 11 08:28:51 <Macer> im installing opera now
Jun 11 08:29:03 <Macer> i will probably try out chromium later
Jun 11 08:30:05 <Macer> im still holding out for a portrait media player
Jun 11 08:30:09 <Macer> :/
Jun 11 08:40:40 <mece> Macer, I think chromium was removed... or how was it?
Jun 11 08:40:53 <mece> anyway, who wanted to know about screenprotectors?
Jun 11 08:43:16 <mece> this screenprotector actually improves the usability of the phone, because it's so slick and smooth. http://www.protectionfilms24.com/article/vikuiti-dqc-160-screen-protector-nokia-n900-28210.html
Jun 11 08:44:35 <jacekowski> i have to get one
Jun 11 08:44:41 <jacekowski> i already have 3 scratches
Jun 11 08:44:59 <jacekowski> or i'll just drop it from 20m
Jun 11 08:45:05 <jacekowski> and use my insurance
Jun 11 08:49:05 <mece> :D
Jun 11 08:49:11 <mece> both are viable options.
Jun 11 08:49:24 <mece> well I ordered a bunch of those.
Jun 11 08:49:46 <DocScrutinizer> or you get a new ts glass for ~60 bucks
Jun 11 08:50:34 <mece> hey anyone at #LinuxTag?
Jun 11 08:50:41 <X-Fade> Or you just don't care. Let's say you protect your screen for 2 years and then replace your phone. You then protected your screen for a paperweight? :)
Jun 11 08:51:10 <X-Fade> Screenprotectors really take away some of the sensitivity.
Jun 11 08:51:33 <DocScrutinizer> I replace glass after 2 years, that's what my suggestion above was all about
Jun 11 08:52:00 <X-Fade> I usually replace the device with a new generation one ;)
Jun 11 08:52:09 <mece> X-Fade, I guess it depends on how careful you are. I wanted those protectors because they make the device better. My screen is a bit.. sticky without it.
Jun 11 08:52:18 <Appiah> sticky?
Jun 11 08:52:22 <DocScrutinizer> I know I'll hate next generation Nxxx
Jun 11 08:52:36 <mece> Appiah, well not sticky, but not slick like glass.
Jun 11 08:52:40 * lbt_ paid ~1.99 for 6 protectors... they're nice
Jun 11 08:52:51 <mece> Appiah, and that protector feels slick like glass.
Jun 11 08:53:01 <Appiah> lbt_: which protector?
Jun 11 08:53:14 <crashanddie> lmao
Jun 11 08:53:15 <crashanddie> http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65960S20100610
Jun 11 08:53:21 <lbt_> it's in the thread .... an ebay special
Jun 11 08:53:21 <crashanddie> look at the picture in that story
Jun 11 08:53:25 <mece> also didn't seem to affect the sensitivity
Jun 11 08:53:44 <crashanddie> and then third or fourth paragraph down, it says "Goatse Security group"
Jun 11 08:54:18 <mece> OMGLOL
Jun 11 08:54:20 <mece> wtf?
Jun 11 08:54:28 <Appiah> "The breach, first reported by the website Gawker on Wednesday, occurred when a group calling itself Goatse Security hacked into AT&T's"
Jun 11 08:54:32 <mece> LOOOOOOL
Jun 11 08:54:38 <Appiah> so people will google goatse
Jun 11 08:54:43 <Appiah> and then go : WTF
Jun 11 08:54:48 <Appiah> smart
Jun 11 08:54:52 <Stskeeps> excellent
Jun 11 08:54:58 <X-Fade> ;)
Jun 11 08:55:02 <crashanddie> Appiah: look at the picture
Jun 11 08:55:08 <Appiah> crashanddie: OH
Jun 11 08:55:09 <crashanddie> Appiah: they already found the goatse picture
Jun 11 08:55:10 <Appiah> Now I get it
Jun 11 08:55:11 <mece> man this is comedy gold!
Jun 11 08:55:13 <Appiah> haha
Jun 11 08:55:23 <Appiah> <--- Was a bit slow
Jun 11 08:55:26 <crashanddie> "FBI probing AT&T"
Jun 11 08:59:18 <mece> soo.... there are 4 reporters mentioned. which one is the funny one you think?
Jun 11 09:00:50 <RST38h> The one with his head stuck in his own ass?
Jun 11 09:01:01 <RST38h> Oh, wait, that describes all four...
Jun 11 09:02:39 <mece> lol
Jun 11 09:03:19 <crashanddie> Hahaha... I just had an idea for an application... (no, nothing to do with Goatse)
Jun 11 09:03:34 <Appiah> awww =(
Jun 11 09:03:38 <crashanddie> Use the accelerometer to detect when the N900 is lifted, then start playing this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EHEcY2UI1M
Jun 11 09:04:16 <crashanddie> And detect when the N900 reaches the parrabellum of the elevator, and play the "ding" sound.
Jun 11 09:05:16 <X-Fade> That should not be hard btw, n900fly already does the detection.
Jun 11 09:05:18 <lcuk> that would get rather frustrating when you are just traveling
Jun 11 09:05:39 <crashanddie> lcuk: I said app, not daemon :P
Jun 11 09:05:45 <crashanddie> X-Fade: indeed
Jun 11 09:06:01 <crashanddie> X-Fade: maybe jsut adapt the curves a bit, doubt that elevators will be as hard as throwing shit
Jun 11 09:06:17 <Appiah> haha
Jun 11 09:06:32 <mece> hey, freeciv one 2 votes away from extras...
Jun 11 09:06:36 <mece> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/freeciv-client-sdl/2.1.10-1maemo5v2.3/
Jun 11 09:09:11 <lcuk> crashanddie, if its an app
Jun 11 09:09:28 <lcuk> just a widget with that tune would do to as X-Fade says wait for peak
Jun 11 09:09:45 <Appiah> uuhh
Jun 11 09:09:54 <Appiah> is there no way to login with openid on maemo talk?
Jun 11 09:10:28 <lcuk> crashanddie, i also now want to watch morph
Jun 11 09:10:50 <MohammadAG51> Oi!
Jun 11 09:10:53 <Appiah> wb
Jun 11 09:10:56 * MohammadAG51 slaps crashanddie 
Jun 11 09:11:01 <jacekowski> Appiah: openid sucks
Jun 11 09:11:07 <jacekowski> Appiah: and it's insecure
Jun 11 09:11:18 <MohammadAG51> Appiah, ty
Jun 11 09:11:37 <Appiah> but maemo talk provides you with openid
Jun 11 09:11:45 <Appiah> but you cant login with it , or others
Jun 11 09:11:52 <Appiah> why is openID so insecure?
Jun 11 09:12:22 <jacekowski> because any bug in openid provider software and somebody gets access everywhere
Jun 11 09:12:41 <jacekowski> any administrator of that site can get access everywhere
Jun 11 09:13:26 <Appiah> so thats why you can get an openid at maemo talk but not use it at maemo talk?
Jun 11 09:13:28 <lcuk> jacekowski, is there a bug?
Jun 11 09:13:42 <jacekowski> it's insecure by design
Jun 11 09:13:52 <lcuk> i never asked that
Jun 11 09:14:00 <lcuk> is there a bug in the implementation
Jun 11 09:14:02 <jacekowski> i bet there is
Jun 11 09:14:07 <lcuk> have people reviewed it and identified it
Jun 11 09:14:08 <jacekowski> nobody just found it yet
Jun 11 09:14:11 <lcuk> i didnt ask that
Jun 11 09:14:31 <Tachikoma> moin
Jun 11 09:14:33 <lcuk> your dislike of openid then heads down FUD route
Jun 11 09:14:41 <Appiah> :D
Jun 11 09:14:52 <jacekowski> well, i had bad experiences with openid
Jun 11 09:15:08 <X-Fade> On this issue I have to agree with jacekowski though.
Jun 11 09:15:09 <lcuk> why didnt you document them or discuss with the openid specialists
Jun 11 09:15:14 <lcuk> who might have agreed with you
Jun 11 09:16:00 <jacekowski> biggest polish openid provider had a lot of issues with their implementation
Jun 11 09:16:00 <Stskeeps> i vote for x509 certificates
Jun 11 09:16:08 <Appiah> Well I take it as a no , there is no way to use your OpenID to login to talk.maemo.org
Jun 11 09:16:13 <Appiah> Thank you
Jun 11 09:16:20 <jacekowski> and it ended up with them losing whole database
Jun 11 09:16:34 <Appiah> maemo.org is just a provider
Jun 11 09:16:56 <lcuk> X-Fade, so its not all roses!
Jun 11 09:17:20 <X-Fade> lcuk: No, you have to trust the people owning your openid provider.
Jun 11 09:18:25 <lcuk> isnt the idea of give trust, take trust
Jun 11 09:18:30 <lcuk> you expect people to trust maemo.org :P
Jun 11 09:18:52 <jacekowski> X-Fade: do you trust me?
Jun 11 09:18:58 <jacekowski> lcuk: or you
Jun 11 09:18:59 <X-Fade> jacekowski: no.
Jun 11 09:19:03 <jacekowski> exactly
Jun 11 09:19:41 * MohammadAG51 sniggers
Jun 11 09:19:47 <MohammadAG51> X-Fade, do you trust me?
Jun 11 09:19:53 <jacekowski> only thing that would be reasonably safe is centralised password storage
Jun 11 09:19:58 <X-Fade> MohammadAG51: Of course not.
Jun 11 09:20:03 <jacekowski> so you send your encrypted passwords
Jun 11 09:20:04 <MohammadAG51> grrr
Jun 11 09:20:15 * MohammadAG51 slaps X-Fade 
Jun 11 09:20:16 <jacekowski> and it's stored somewhere
Jun 11 09:20:31 <jacekowski> if it's lost or something it's not a problem because it was encrypted
Jun 11 09:20:41 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51: no, but X-Fade likes you. He slapped me on the wrist for kicking you, going the whole "boo, you may be losing us some good contributors if you keep doing that, y'all"
Jun 11 09:21:11 <jacekowski> and your browser then pulls these passwords - decrypts locally and logs in
Jun 11 09:21:24 <jacekowski> most of openid benefits
Jun 11 09:21:28 <jacekowski> with less security problems
Jun 11 09:21:31 <MohammadAG51> lol X-Fade don't worry about it (I'd settle for a temp +o though :P)
Jun 11 09:22:21 <MohammadAG51> nah, that's too much
Jun 11 09:22:29 <MohammadAG51> he can unban himself though
Jun 11 09:22:55 * MohammadAG51 waits for him to unban himself, otherwise i've pissed him off
Jun 11 09:23:01 <MohammadAG51> wb
Jun 11 09:23:23 <crashanddie> you actually made me look up a command on chanserv, damn you.
Jun 11 09:23:28 <MohammadAG51> LOL
Jun 11 09:23:39 <MohammadAG51> /cs unban #channelname
Jun 11 09:23:48 <MohammadAG51> you could've PM'd me :P
Jun 11 09:24:25 <crashanddie> next time I'll use recover :P
Jun 11 09:24:57 <jacekowski> MohammadAG51: you could have requested permanent +o
Jun 11 09:25:10 <crashanddie> no he couldn't have
Jun 11 09:25:17 <crashanddie> well, he could've requested it
Jun 11 09:25:30 <crashanddie> but after kicking me, he'll neva get it
Jun 11 09:25:31 <MohammadAG51> why request something I won't get :P
Jun 11 09:25:43 * MohammadAG51 should've used akick
Jun 11 09:25:49 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51: won't work
Jun 11 09:25:56 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51: even I don't have akick
Jun 11 09:26:02 <MohammadAG51> err
Jun 11 09:26:18 <MohammadAG51> someone said they could use it
Jun 11 09:26:25 <crashanddie> yeah, but not regular ops
Jun 11 09:26:30 <crashanddie> probably x-fade or GeneralAntilles
Jun 11 09:26:38 <MohammadAG51> it needs level 10 access on our server
Jun 11 09:26:48 <MohammadAG51> not sure about IRCSeven
Jun 11 09:26:51 <crashanddie> is that uber-paladin or just rogue?
Jun 11 09:27:00 <MohammadAG51> lolwut
Jun 11 09:27:01 <X-Fade> I'm Founder, so ... ;)
Jun 11 09:27:10 <crashanddie> yeah, but you're not really the founder
Jun 11 09:27:14 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 11 09:27:17 <crashanddie> you have founder status, we all know you're a fraud
Jun 11 09:27:30 <crashanddie> it's just for admin purposes
Jun 11 09:27:46 <X-Fade> Heh, I went through the registration process. Which took 2 years :)
Jun 11 09:27:55 <X-Fade> Talk about commitment :D
Jun 11 09:28:02 <crashanddie> you just idled, dude
Jun 11 09:28:04 <MohammadAG51> /cs register took 2 years?
Jun 11 09:28:05 <MohammadAG51> :P
Jun 11 09:28:18 <crashanddie> it's like "I"m the founder", and two years later "hey, still founder" "uh, sure", "here you go"
Jun 11 09:28:22 <X-Fade> No, registered org.
Jun 11 09:28:28 <MohammadAG51> oh
Jun 11 09:28:32 <MohammadAG51> you own maemo.org?
Jun 11 09:28:36 <crashanddie> no
Jun 11 09:28:47 <crashanddie> he represents the admin officer for #maemo
Jun 11 09:28:58 <MohammadAG51> i know that
Jun 11 09:28:59 <X-Fade> No, but you have to register your org with freenode etc etc.
Jun 11 09:29:12 <MohammadAG51> that's stupid lol
Jun 11 09:29:19 <MohammadAG51> don't tell me it's for cloaks...
Jun 11 09:29:26 <crashanddie> amongst other things
Jun 11 09:29:32 <crashanddie> it used to be for services too.
Jun 11 09:29:39 <crashanddie> (didn't have chanserv if not registered)
Jun 11 09:30:07 <crashanddie> also, you should be using ##whatever (double pound-sign) if it's not an official project channel
Jun 11 09:30:20 <marcus> I have a little problem with creating a .deb package for my n900: Where should I put the resources (imgs and music) that my .exe should read?
Jun 11 09:30:28 <crashanddie> .exe?
Jun 11 09:30:31 <MohammadAG51> .exe...
Jun 11 09:30:38 <crashanddie> resources == weed?
Jun 11 09:30:44 <MohammadAG51> that's an insult to me tbh
Jun 11 09:30:48 <crashanddie> are thee high?
Jun 11 09:30:57 <marcus> Oups
Jun 11 09:31:02 <marcus> Too much Windows lately.
Jun 11 09:31:02 <MohammadAG51> /usr/share/pixmaps anyways
Jun 11 09:31:12 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51: not /opt? :P
Jun 11 09:31:16 <marcus> Please accept my apologi :-)
Jun 11 09:31:16 <woglinde> hms dont find a site how to setup pr1-2 sdk
Jun 11 09:31:27 <crashanddie> marcus: I'll even accept your apology.
Jun 11 09:31:38 <MohammadAG51> crashanddie, I think the whole folder was moved in 1.2 :)
Jun 11 09:31:40 <woglinde> anyone can help me?
Jun 11 09:31:40 <Ikarus> marcus: Windows on the brain
Jun 11 09:31:43 <marcus> crashanddie: Please accept that as well.
Jun 11 09:31:55 <crashanddie> woglinde: that's an interesting name for a ship.
Jun 11 09:32:14 <marcus> MohammedAG51: But when I manually add the imgs to /opt/, they are deleted when I compile the .deb
Jun 11 09:32:18 <woglinde> crashanddie what?
Jun 11 09:32:20 <woglinde> *g*
Jun 11 09:32:27 <crashanddie> Ikarus: insane in the membrane? Windows in the brain?
Jun 11 09:32:30 <lcuk> MohammadAG51, crashanddie yes, /usr/share/pixmaps is optified
Jun 11 09:32:32 <lcuk> http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/blobs/master/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf#line24
Jun 11 09:32:34 <MohammadAG51> marcus, debian/rules
Jun 11 09:32:42 <woglinde> crashanddie sources.list would be enough
Jun 11 09:32:57 <crashanddie> woglinde: HMS stands for Her Majesty's Ship.
Jun 11 09:32:59 <MohammadAG51> lcuk, see? I know what was optified :P
Jun 11 09:33:00 <woglinde> autotoptify isnt that good
Jun 11 09:33:14 <woglinde> crashanddie ah yes right
Jun 11 09:33:19 <crashanddie> woglinde: that's why I said: interesting name for a ship, when you said < woglinde> hms dont find a site how to setup pr1-2 sdk
Jun 11 09:33:28 <woglinde> crashanddie its something like *sigh* to
Jun 11 09:33:42 <crashanddie> lcuk: cool
Jun 11 09:33:57 <crashanddie> lcuk: I kinda suspected it though, hence the smiley
Jun 11 09:34:22 <woglinde> better optify by hand
Jun 11 09:34:46 <marcus> So I should put the imgs in /usr/share/pixmaps, and then make the app read the images directly from /usr/share/pixmaps/APPNAME/pic1.jpeg
Jun 11 09:35:00 <lcuk> woglinde, read up on maemo-optify-boottime, it tries to just take large whole folders
Jun 11 09:35:09 <MohammadAG51> marcus, yeah
Jun 11 09:35:15 <woglinde> oh boottime okay
Jun 11 09:35:20 <lcuk> and has logic to try and prevent recursive loops, ie it will not touch a folder thats already got opt links inside afaik
Jun 11 09:35:33 <woglinde> so now back to sources.list for pr1.2
Jun 11 09:35:37 <marcus> MohammadAG51: Will give it a shot, and see if automaticly removes the imgs again, when compiling
Jun 11 09:35:38 <woglinde> and I am happy
Jun 11 09:36:07 <MohammadAG51> marcus, there's no such thing as automatic removal, you never added them to debian/rules
Jun 11 09:36:16 <MohammadAG51> read the install: part in that file
Jun 11 09:36:21 <marcus> AHA! :3
Jun 11 09:36:53 <marcus> install: build
Jun 11 09:36:53 <marcus> 	dh_testdir
Jun 11 09:36:53 <marcus> 	dh_testroot
Jun 11 09:36:53 <marcus> 	dh_clean -k
Jun 11 09:36:53 <marcus> 	dh_installdirs
Jun 11 09:36:54 <marcus> 	# Add here commands to install the package into debian/fixedratepigs.
Jun 11 09:36:58 <marcus> 	$(MAKE) INSTALL_ROOT="$(CURDIR)"/debian/fixedratepigs install
Jun 11 09:37:00 <marcus> That part?
Jun 11 09:37:02 <marcus> Oups, crap. Sorry for spam
Jun 11 09:37:07 <MohammadAG51> yes
Jun 11 09:37:11 <MohammadAG51> add a cp
Jun 11 09:37:22 <marcus> after the command to install, I guess?
Jun 11 09:37:40 <ghostcube> hmm, who killed the maemo.org site :P
Jun 11 09:38:08 <MohammadAG51> cp -a -r $(CURDIR)/path/to/images/folder $(CURDIR)/debian/usr/share/pixmaps/
Jun 11 09:38:15 <MohammadAG51> after the make install
Jun 11 09:38:30 <MohammadAG51> also add usr/share/pixmaps in debian/dirs
Jun 11 09:38:31 <marcus> Thanks, I will give it a shot.
Jun 11 09:38:35 <MohammadAG51> without the first /
Jun 11 09:39:08 <marcus> Like this? 	$(MAKE) INSTALL_ROOT="$(CURDIR)"/debian/fixedratepigs install
Jun 11 09:39:09 <marcus> 	cp -a -r $(CURDIR)/path/to/images/folder $(CURDIR)/debian/usr/share/pixmaps/
Jun 11 09:39:18 <marcus> Or should I have the $ in front.
Jun 11 09:39:43 <MohammadAG51> replace the path/to/images/folder with the right path
Jun 11 09:39:47 <marcus> Yeah.
Jun 11 09:40:20 <MohammadAG51> oh wait
Jun 11 09:40:35 <MohammadAG51>  cp -a -r $(CURDIR)/path/to/images/folder $(CURDIR)/debian/fixedratepigs/usr/share/pixmaps/
Jun 11 09:40:40 <MohammadAG51> now it's right :P
Jun 11 09:41:00 <woglinde> *sigh*
Jun 11 09:41:02 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: you spammer! moinmoin
Jun 11 09:41:10 <woglinde> common only the sources.list
Jun 11 09:41:17 * MohammadAG51 kicks DocScrutinizer 
Jun 11 09:42:04 <DocScrutinizer> ghostcube: meee
Jun 11 09:42:25 <ghostcube> DocScrutinizer: hmmm i would have bet 50 bucks if you dont have told mne now
Jun 11 09:42:26 <ghostcube> :D
Jun 11 09:42:32 <ghostcube> hihi
Jun 11 09:43:05 <marcus> MohammadAG51: So the place where I copy the files from, should be on my local machine, and then the rules part, automaticly copy them to my debian pkg, is that correct?
Jun 11 09:43:49 <MohammadAG51> $(CURDIR) is where dpkg-buildpackage is started from
Jun 11 09:44:16 <marcus> Aha. So it should be somewhere in my "uncompiled" package.
Jun 11 09:44:23 <woglinde> hm hm
Jun 11 09:44:46 <woglinde> okay then you will get not a new navit package
Jun 11 09:44:47 <woglinde> bah
Jun 11 09:45:57 <marcus> MohammadAG51: Should pixmaps be a complete mess, or should I create a folder within pixmaps?
Jun 11 09:46:20 <MohammadAG51> as you wish :P
Jun 11 09:46:42 <MohammadAG51> i'd say make a folder though
Jun 11 09:47:03 <marcus> I'll see what happens o.o
Jun 11 09:47:12 <Appiah> BOOM
Jun 11 09:47:15 <Appiah> i bet
Jun 11 09:47:17 <marcus> :p
Jun 11 09:50:36 <achipa> okay, who killed the maemo.org repos ? Not me again I hope...
Jun 11 09:50:53 <X-Fade> achipa: ?
Jun 11 09:51:15 <X-Fade> Just installing mypaint from extras, works for me?
Jun 11 09:51:37 <achipa> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/python2.5-qt4-doc/4.7.3-maemo5/
Jun 11 09:51:57 <achipa> Server error: Failed to load component net.nehmer.static: Component not in manifest list.
Jun 11 09:52:15 <Appiah> works fine
Jun 11 09:52:15 <X-Fade> achipa: reload?
Jun 11 09:53:07 <achipa> hm, I swear I pressed reload 3 times previously and it came back with that error...
Jun 11 09:53:17 <Appiah> :)
Jun 11 09:53:36 <X-Fade> achipa: Sure :)
Jun 11 09:53:39 <achipa> no, seriously, the error page even has a time stamp
Jun 11 09:53:54 <X-Fade> achipa: Yes, I flushed cache on that server ;)
Jun 11 09:54:16 <achipa> ah... ok...
Jun 11 09:54:28 <woglinde> hm okay
Jun 11 09:54:33 <woglinde> its all automagicly now
Jun 11 10:15:34 <achipa> http://maemo.org/news/
Jun 11 10:15:39 <achipa> gives me an empty page, too
Jun 11 10:15:48 <achipa> yes, I pressed reload repeatedly :)
Jun 11 10:18:35 <ghostcube> achipa: DocScrutinizer killd the server :P
Jun 11 10:19:04 <achipa> ghostcube: how ? did he post a news that PR1.3 is out ?
Jun 11 10:19:12 <woglinde> lol
Jun 11 10:19:23 <SpeedEvil> The next release is PRsqrt(2)
Jun 11 10:19:37 <SpeedEvil> They weren't rational about the numbering.
Jun 11 10:19:40 <ghostcube> PRpi o.O
Jun 11 10:20:05 <satmd> :D
Jun 11 10:20:25 * satmd still waits for a fix on the icq account
Jun 11 10:20:50 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: I uploaded the definition of recursion
Jun 11 10:21:25 <ghostcube> woah, the one steve jobs hides under his bed?
Jun 11 10:21:30 <DocScrutinizer> and pointed to it with a selfrefering symlink
Jun 11 10:21:51 <satmd> woa, those are evil!
Jun 11 10:21:51 <DocScrutinizer> ~recursion
Jun 11 10:21:53 <infobot> To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. see ~recursion
Jun 11 10:24:31 <DocScrutinizer> then, when the load hit the roof, I started tracing network traffic on the servers to my local console
Jun 11 10:24:51 <DocScrutinizer> to see what's wrong... :-S
Jun 11 10:25:25 <DocScrutinizer> still trying to analyze the logs :-P
Jun 11 10:25:26 <ghostcube> DocScrutinizer: bad ass chinese hackaaas
Jun 11 10:25:28 <ghostcube> :D
Jun 11 10:25:56 * satmd resortet to iptables -A INPUT -m geoip --geoip-src CN -j DROP a month ago
Jun 11 10:26:08 <satmd> don't like it, but nothing helped
Jun 11 10:26:15 <crashanddie> resortet?
Jun 11 10:26:30 <satmd> t suffix = german past tense :P
Jun 11 10:26:35 <satmd> resorted
Jun 11 10:26:41 <satmd> typical german typo
Jun 11 10:26:45 <crashanddie> resorted?
Jun 11 10:26:51 <satmd> yes
Jun 11 10:27:02 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: don't spoil his excellent german grammar please ;-P
Jun 11 10:27:08 <DocScrutinizer> most do it wrong here
Jun 11 10:27:09 <crashanddie> oh, you mean "you had to resort to"
Jun 11 10:27:20 * satmd takes notes
Jun 11 10:27:30 <satmd> 13 years of school english doesn't make perfect
Jun 11 10:27:36 <satmd> +me
Jun 11 10:27:42 <satmd> but chat sure does :D
Jun 11 10:28:10 <SpeedEvil> Where ar eyou from?
Jun 11 10:28:11 <SpeedEvil> Oh
Jun 11 10:28:18 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: it's not chat
Jun 11 10:28:21 <jacekowski> not you
Jun 11 10:28:25 <jacekowski> satmd: it's not a chat
Jun 11 10:28:36 <jacekowski> satmd: it's IRC
Jun 11 10:29:30 <satmd> fun fact: been working on unreal and inspircd and being that is just lol
Jun 11 10:29:35 <satmd> +told
Jun 11 10:29:47 <mece> bäääck! What is up maemonians?
Jun 11 10:30:19 <SpeedEvil> Not much.
Jun 11 10:30:26 <SpeedEvil> PR1.2 was released.
Jun 11 10:30:32 <mece> LOL
Jun 11 10:31:04 <SpeedEvil> Also - there is now a phone in the N*** range.
Jun 11 10:32:47 <mece> SpeedEvil, the mythical N900?
Jun 11 10:33:39 <mece> is there a video of the linuxtag meego/maemo stuff?
Jun 11 10:41:35 <mece> ok.. hopefully some of it will appear here: http://www.linuxtag.org/2010/en/linuxtag-tv.html later.
Jun 11 10:44:43 <achipa> oooh, what's this ? 'Remote Compiler allows you to push the compilation to an external Nokia Server'
Jun 11 10:50:30 <BCMM> achipa: is that something like distcc?
Jun 11 10:50:48 <mece> achipa, sounds sweet! Where is this?
Jun 11 10:51:01 <achipa> BCMM: dunno, just installed the plugin, still trying to find out what exactly it does and how :)
Jun 11 10:51:11 <achipa> nokia qt sdk, start updater and switch over to components
Jun 11 10:51:20 <mece> achipa, is there a new version out?
Jun 11 10:51:31 <achipa> ummm, the release candidate from yesterday ?
Jun 11 10:52:05 <mece> sweetness!
Jun 11 10:52:09 <mece> I haven't been following.
Jun 11 10:54:29 <mece> Khertan, ping
Jun 11 10:54:47 <mece> ~seen khertan
Jun 11 10:54:49 <infobot> khertan <~Khertan@AAmiens-155-1-51-205.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 36m 25s ago, saying: 'bye'.
Jun 11 10:54:58 <mece> ~seen khertan_
Jun 11 10:54:59 <infobot> khertan_ <~d4eabb96@gateway/web/freenode/x-xlpumktyfckxtdiz> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7d 20h 19m 17s ago, saying: 's/it/he'.
Jun 11 10:55:14 <mece> grr what is the nick he uses?
Jun 11 10:57:30 <ghostcube> achipa: something like launchpad eh?
Jun 11 10:58:15 <achipa> i guess... don't know how that fits OBS plans...
Jun 11 11:20:59 <jacekowski> would it be ok if i would host chromium in my own repository, and then post a link to it on tmo or somewhere?
Jun 11 11:25:13 <RST38h> Yes, it would be ok, until your provider receives a takedown notice
Jun 11 11:25:22 <SpeedEvil> Which you can then inform them to ignore
Jun 11 11:25:33 <RST38h> Then, there are several possible ways the events may develop
Jun 11 11:26:11 <SpeedEvil> The way your provider should deal with it is - they get takedown notice - they may takedown your stuff - you state that it's not infringing, and it gets put back up
Jun 11 11:26:54 <SpeedEvil> Or just teach HAM about bittorrent.
Jun 11 11:36:44 <SpeedEvil> Is it me, or is every edit link on the wiki dead?
Jun 11 11:36:48 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=N900_Hardware_CPU&action=edit&section=6
Jun 11 11:36:57 <SpeedEvil> Fatal error:  Call to undefined function makeTitleSafe() in /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/Revision.php  on line 281
Jun 11 11:38:03 <SpeedEvil> dneary: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Dneary - were you poking at this a couple of nights ago?
Jun 11 11:38:30 <dneary> SpeedEvil, Have I killed wiki edits?
Jun 11 11:38:32 <dneary> Eek!
Jun 11 11:39:01 <SpeedEvil> It was working after you had done stuff.
Jun 11 11:39:12 <SpeedEvil> It's certainly not been broken since then
Jun 11 11:39:41 <dneary> Working now?
Jun 11 11:39:55 <SpeedEvil> Seems to be
Jun 11 11:40:05 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 11 11:41:50 <mece> thinking on putting libhildonfm2-community in extras-devel. Any objections?
Jun 11 11:44:02 * SpeedEvil objects!
Jun 11 11:44:05 <SpeedEvil> (not really)
Jun 11 11:44:12 <SpeedEvil> this is the file manager/.
Jun 11 11:44:17 <mece> yes
Jun 11 11:44:27 <SpeedEvil> Planning on fixes?
Jun 11 11:44:45 <mece> SpeedEvil, well I have done the extension displaying thing.
Jun 11 11:44:59 <SpeedEvil> I've been using cuteexplorer, which is OK
Jun 11 11:45:13 <lcuk> mece - extension displaying thing?
Jun 11 11:45:19 <mece> SpeedEvil, yeah, but this one affects the filepicker dialogs too.
Jun 11 11:45:32 <mece> lcuk, well filemanager and filepicker doesnt display extensions. so I fixed that.
Jun 11 11:45:52 <lcuk> do you want to file a bug and include a patch?
Jun 11 11:46:05 <SpeedEvil> Module Size Used by pn-pep 12992 0 g-nokia 30504 6 vfat 9600 1 [http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/./fs/fat/vfat.c Module  source] fat 43420 1 vfat [http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/./fs/fat/fat.c fat  source] sd-mod 20372 0 scsi-mod 82016 1 sd_mod iphb 3300 1 [http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/./net/ipv4/netfilter/iphb.c sd-mod  source] rfcomm 33620 14 [http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/./net/bluetooth/rfcom
Jun 11 11:46:14 <SpeedEvil> argh
Jun 11 11:46:17 <mece> lcuk, it's already a wontfix so I don't think they want it into upstream
Jun 11 11:46:34 <mece> or whatever it's called, the official stuff.
Jun 11 11:46:36 <SpeedEvil> Did I really paste all that?
Jun 11 11:46:40 <lcuk> if its a wontfix and you fixed it
Jun 11 11:46:40 <mece> haha LOL
Jun 11 11:47:01 <mece> lcuk, but they want it the crappy way. It's a supereasy fix, also for nokia.
Jun 11 11:47:23 <lcuk> sure mece :)
Jun 11 11:47:26 <mece> lcuk, but they don't want it. hence the "community" edition. Besides you'd have to wait for pr1.3 to get it.
Jun 11 11:47:29 <SpeedEvil> Won'tfixes are also improperly used for invalid
Jun 11 11:47:32 <SpeedEvil> IMO
Jun 11 11:47:40 <SpeedEvil> 'conforms to spec' should be invalid
Jun 11 11:47:45 <lcuk> mece "they"
Jun 11 11:48:10 <lcuk> i think its great you are hacking on it
Jun 11 11:48:34 <lcuk> if therers a patch there for something lots of people want then.. ?
Jun 11 11:49:46 <lcuk> mece, please submit it as a patch on the bug report
Jun 11 11:49:56 <mece> lcuk, I don't know how to do it.
Jun 11 11:50:08 <mece> it's bug #430
Jun 11 11:50:09 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=430 Show and edit filename extensions
Jun 11 11:50:40 <mece> lcuk, I don't know how to create a patch I mean.
Jun 11 11:51:50 <lcuk> ok mece :)
Jun 11 11:51:54 <lcuk> do you have a git
Jun 11 11:52:22 <lcuk> because you should be able to ask git to give you the patch between the official version and yours
Jun 11 11:52:32 <mece> lcuk, nice.
Jun 11 11:52:39 <lcuk> and add that as an attachment onto the bug report
Jun 11 11:53:06 <lcuk> it shows you have supplied a fix and it shows which versions its on :)
Jun 11 11:53:08 <mece> well i've modified the packaging alot right now, but I can do the code mods on the original.
Jun 11 11:53:25 <lcuk> yes, please do :)
Jun 11 11:53:51 <mece> lcuk, should I clone the official git, or is it enough to dl the tarball, create git and then mod and then diff?
Jun 11 11:54:42 <lcuk> mece - git itself holds all its info but the tarball does not
Jun 11 11:54:51 <mece> lcuk, so where do I find it?
Jun 11 11:54:55 <lcuk> the tarball is a snapshot, if you clone the repository
Jun 11 11:55:04 <lcuk> it downloads the files and all the history
Jun 11 11:55:32 <mece> lcuk, yeah. but where is the repository?
Jun 11 11:55:40 <mece> for this: libhildonfm_2.28.18+0m5
Jun 11 11:56:12 <lcuk> oh crap i thought it was on gitorious did you just apt-get source it
Jun 11 11:56:46 <mece> lcuk, it might be. I actually just dl:d the tarball from repository.maemo.org
Jun 11 11:57:33 <lcuk> right mece, i see
Jun 11 11:58:08 <lcuk> just turn the original 2.28.18 into a git repository and then make your changes ontop
Jun 11 11:58:21 <mece> lcuk, will do.
Jun 11 11:58:36 <lcuk> i forgot hildon-fm isnt directly on gitorious
Jun 11 11:58:45 * lcuk is used to many of these components being there
Jun 11 11:59:45 <mece> ok hold on..
Jun 11 12:01:18 <mece> lcuk, do I want git root in asdf/libhildonfm-2.28.18+0m5/ or in asdf/
Jun 11 12:01:28 <mece> probly the first option.
Jun 11 12:01:32 <melmoth> anybody succeeded in installing maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py  on a ubuntu 10.04 ?
Jun 11 12:01:55 <melmoth> each time i try to install a maemo sdk, i need to restart 4 times before it works.... some things never change :-(
Jun 11 12:02:29 <melmoth> now, with the new graphic thingy... things just fail, and leave me with a scratchbox half installed.
Jun 11 12:04:38 <alterego> i've always installed manually, and in a vm.
Jun 11 12:04:52 <melmoth> i always do it on a vm too.
Jun 11 12:05:17 <DocScrutinizer> vm in a vm in a vm
Jun 11 12:05:21 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Jun 11 12:05:48 <DocScrutinizer> well, maybe sb isn't exactly a vm
Jun 11 12:06:24 <alterego> i've always installed manually, and in a vm.
Jun 11 12:07:33 <melmoth> well... I ll install it another day...
Jun 11 12:08:50 <mece> lcuk, ok, mods done. What do I do now?
Jun 11 12:09:51 <lcuk> right mece you said theres a bug report thats been wontfixed
Jun 11 12:10:02 <mece> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=430
Jun 11 12:10:03 <povbot> Bug 430: Show and edit filename extensions
Jun 11 12:10:45 <mece> lcuk, I havent gotten the "patch" data yet. should I first commit the changes? I commited the original before doing anything.
Jun 11 12:11:30 <lcuk> i think "git diff" will show you the patch
Jun 11 12:11:36 <mece> ok.
Jun 11 12:11:47 <mece> after I've committed it i guess?
Jun 11 12:12:05 <mece> oh.. just git diff without committing works..
Jun 11 12:12:09 <lcuk> no need actually, the git diff will compare whats there now
Jun 11 12:12:15 <lcuk> with any prior commits
Jun 11 12:12:55 <mece>  ok. then what? do I simply pipe git diff to something or what?
Jun 11 12:14:58 <mece> lcuk, here is the diff: http://pastebin.com/R77d7yJQ
Jun 11 12:16:34 <dneary> OK - things are supposed to be working now :)
Jun 11 12:16:41 <dneary> Sorry for the disruption with the wiki
Jun 11 12:17:16 <Khertan_Home> Hi !
Jun 11 12:17:30 <Khertan> Hi again :)
Jun 11 12:18:41 <Khertan> http://wiki.meego.com/BOSS <<< seems features creeped ... far from : "Keep It Simple and Smart"
Jun 11 12:19:34 <GeneralAntilles> Is there anything less professional than diagrams with spelling "errors"?
Jun 11 12:19:43 <mece> Khertan, I made a fix for the filename extension for file picker dialog and file manager? You still need that?
Jun 11 12:19:45 <lcuk> mece, it would be great if you would add that text to a patch attachment on the bug.  make notes about it and explain what it does and does not do
Jun 11 12:19:49 <GeneralAntilles> Why is that now the hallmark of open source diagrams and presentations?
Jun 11 12:20:16 <mece> lcuk, which text? the comments in the file?
Jun 11 12:20:47 <lcuk> yes, the file generated when you piped git diff
Jun 11 12:20:48 <Khertan> mece, oh ... yes could be interesting ... but how did you do ? patching the header ?
Jun 11 12:21:18 <mece> Khertan, no modified libhildonfm2 source. Made a community package that replaces the lib file and even backs up the original :)
Jun 11 12:21:25 <lcuk> Khertan, could you discuss with mece about making a gitorious account perhaps, so he can make a branch on gitorious
Jun 11 12:21:44 <mece> lcuk, I could make it on garage too. i have a gitorious account.
Jun 11 12:21:49 <Khertan> :)
Jun 11 12:22:08 <mece> anyway, how do I submit the patch to the bug then?
Jun 11 12:22:40 <alterego> has anyone looked at building the fremantal ui from git? i was going to attempt building some of the elements like the home screen.
Jun 11 12:23:04 <lcuk> mece on the bug 430 page
Jun 11 12:23:05 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=430 Show and edit filename extensions
Jun 11 12:23:09 <lcuk> Attachment  	Type  	Creator  	Created  	Size  	Actions
Jun 11 12:23:09 <lcuk> Create a New Attachment (proposed patch, testcase, etc.) 	View All
Jun 11 12:23:27 <mece> lcuk, ok but what do the patch look like?
Jun 11 12:24:18 <lcuk> the same thing you pastebinned
Jun 11 12:24:25 <mece> lcuk, as a file?
Jun 11 12:24:43 <lcuk> yeah, i normally do something like
Jun 11 12:24:53 <lcuk> git diff >bug_430_proposed_fix.patch
Jun 11 12:25:04 <mece> ok so if I do git .. right :D that
Jun 11 12:25:37 * GeneralAntilles finds the comments here utterly bizarre. http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2010/06/10/maemo-missteps-for-2010/
Jun 11 12:25:42 <lcuk> just make sure in the comment you make, you make notes about the version you based it on and what mods it makes and its scope etc
Jun 11 12:26:11 <lcuk> mece, thanks for your hacking btw \o
Jun 11 12:27:34 <alterego> GeneralAntilles: the whole of maemo as far as community has become somewhat of a twilight zone :P
Jun 11 12:27:50 <mece> lcuk, like which files are modified and what they do?
Jun 11 12:27:51 <GeneralAntilles> alterego, the A.T. / silpol comment I must be misreading.
Jun 11 12:27:59 <GeneralAntilles> Because it sounds like an attack on Texrat.
Jun 11 12:28:10 <GeneralAntilles> claiming he's hiding anonymity is . . . interestingy.
Jun 11 12:28:22 <lcuk> mece, the file list is done, its more how this effects what is seen and stuff
Jun 11 12:28:23 <GeneralAntilles> s/interestingy/interesting
Jun 11 12:28:43 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i read it as the people on talk.maemo.org hiding behind anonymity
Jun 11 12:28:46 <Stskeeps> not texrat
Jun 11 12:29:05 <GAN900> Stskeeps, ah.
Jun 11 12:32:27 <alterego> GAN900: i don't think he's a Nokian tbh.
Jun 11 12:33:05 <GAN900> alterego, dunno
Jun 11 12:33:12 <Arkenoi> sp, linux flash is updated to fix security bug. ours is not.
Jun 11 12:33:12 <GAN900> Blog looks fairly authentic.
Jun 11 12:33:26 <alterego> he sounds shock ingly like abill_uk ;) but then all the general negativity and slightly flamy comments seem to all sound like one whinging little bitchy teen :D
Jun 11 12:33:45 <Stskeeps> what if abill_uk -was- a nokia employee.. ;p
Jun 11 12:34:17 <psycho_oreos> which might explain why red pill mode was eventually removed ;)
Jun 11 12:34:21 <GAN900> Song on the radio this morning is the same song it was as it was when I got out last night playing at almost the same spot.
Jun 11 12:34:24 * RST38h moos evilly and asks for a bloody sacrifice
Jun 11 12:34:25 <GAN900> Creepy.
Jun 11 12:34:35 <alterego> Stskeeps: it's always a possibility, as he did claim to have "inside" knowledge of the leaked firmware ..
Jun 11 12:34:45 <RST38h> GAN900: Sure it is not in the CD player mode? =)
Jun 11 12:35:24 <GAN900> RST38h, quite
Jun 11 12:35:45 <alterego> Still, he sounds like a reckless moron, and not the kind of person zi'd expect anyone to employ as he sounds like an idiot kid :/
Jun 11 12:36:30 <mece> lcuk how about this: http://pastebin.com/Q2qVNiJL
Jun 11 12:36:46 <mece> lcuk as a comment. I want to be politically correct here and not annoying.
Jun 11 12:37:27 <lcuk> sounds reasonable mece, but thats got feature creep over it :p
Jun 11 12:37:53 <mece> lcuk, how would you put it?
Jun 11 12:38:03 <mece> lcuk, I suck at this kind of thing.
Jun 11 12:38:29 <lcuk> mece, dont fret :) your description is good
Jun 11 12:38:37 <mece> lcuk, ok fine. I'm posting it.
Jun 11 12:38:40 <lcuk> i just wonder why the fremantle bug itself
Jun 11 12:38:50 <lcuk> got assigned as clone of 430
Jun 11 12:38:56 <lcuk> which is clearly old old maemo
Jun 11 12:39:22 <mece> lcuk, yeah I was fascinated by the low number there :D
Jun 11 12:39:45 <MohammadAG51> 1:20 left till the WC starts :)
Jun 11 12:39:51 <lcuk> me too, its quite an interesting one, i like the idea
Jun 11 12:40:03 <lcuk> mece, submit it on 430 :D
Jun 11 12:40:21 <RST38h> bug #430
Jun 11 12:40:22 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=430 Show and edit filename extensions
Jun 11 12:40:38 <lcuk> its clearly right to have been on 9525 but its amusing at same time
Jun 11 12:40:46 <lcuk> bug 9525
Jun 11 12:40:47 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9525 Unable to distinguish files in File Manager
Jun 11 12:41:04 <alterego> I want to start building harmattan components on top of the MeeGo code drop
Jun 11 12:41:10 <mece> oh well I posted.
Jun 11 12:41:18 <alterego> not sure if I can be bothered though.
Jun 11 12:41:21 <RST38h> lcuk: Well, this will definitely be marked as "enhancement" with ETA set to "never"
Jun 11 12:41:30 <alterego> heh
Jun 11 12:42:48 <mece> anyway there is my magical replacement package for those that want it right fn now :)
Jun 11 12:42:58 <lcuk> RST38h, the code now exists. the right thing to do is to assign it against a bug.
Jun 11 12:42:59 <RST38h> It almost feels like Maemo Devices and Lada Cars share the same business processes
Jun 11 12:43:05 <lcuk> mece :) thanks
Jun 11 12:43:54 <RST38h> lcuk: That has also been done before (see Maemo4 screen rotation, xterm patches). It makes no significant difference.
Jun 11 12:45:12 <SpeedEvil> It's good practice.
Jun 11 12:45:20 <SpeedEvil> It can be used as ammo in principle.
Jun 11 12:48:32 <Khertan> lcuk, and it there is other duplicate of #430 which was closed for won't fix
Jun 11 12:48:52 <xkr47-DI> \o
Jun 11 12:50:07 <crashanddie> lcuk: you're going to like this: http://www.ted.com/talks/blaise_aguera_y_arcas_demos_photosynth.html
Jun 11 12:50:51 <lcuk> crashanddie, ive seen it i believe
Jun 11 12:51:52 <mece> Khertan, here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=710395&postcount=14
Jun 11 12:52:13 <mece> and everyone else that want the filemanager fix thing.
Jun 11 12:52:29 <mece> good luck :D
Jun 11 12:52:34 <mece> I'm out. ta.
Jun 11 12:53:39 <Khertan> You can't install this from HAM  <<< ah ... could not be use so for iser
Jun 11 12:53:42 <Khertan> You can't install this from HAM  <<< ah ... could not be use so for user
Jun 11 12:54:30 <Khertan> but thx for the Patch mece
Jun 11 12:54:39 <Khertan> at least i ll use it personnaly :)
Jun 11 12:59:49 <GAN900> alterego, yeah, after some of my encounters with MeeGo Devices people. . . . :P
Jun 11 13:06:46 * GAN900 would really like to push that discussion to somewhere higher profile.
Jun 11 13:08:21 <alterego> heh, you would be the one to know :)
Jun 11 13:08:33 <alterego> I need to find a freakin' job, I'm so bored.
Jun 11 13:08:41 * Khertan didn't understand this discussion ...
Jun 11 13:08:45 <Khertan> :)
Jun 11 13:09:48 <alterego> I also need to come up with another integration idea for Maemo/N900
Jun 11 13:09:49 <GAN900> Khertan, Texrat's blog post about Nokia's idiocy.
Jun 11 13:10:04 <GAN900> http://planet.maemo.org
Jun 11 13:10:11 <Khertan> ah ... ok :)
Jun 11 13:10:18 <Khertan> i ve put a comment on it :)
Jun 11 13:10:20 <alterego> alsol, any of you guys fancy testing me app to vote it into extras :)
Jun 11 13:10:36 <alterego> need 8 more!
Jun 11 13:10:50 <b-man17> sure, i'll vote :)
Jun 11 13:10:58 <Khertan> this war, t.m.o whine ... make me lost most of my interest in the community
Jun 11 13:11:18 <GAN900> Khertan, it's Nokia that killing my enthusiasm
Jun 11 13:11:18 * b-man avoids tmo as much as he can
Jun 11 13:11:28 <alterego> Has anyone done a brainstorm on dev only are of tmo?
Jun 11 13:11:32 <Khertan> yep i consider we are still fighting again some "closed" nokia decision
Jun 11 13:11:41 <alterego> s/are/area
Jun 11 13:11:59 <GAN900> Talk whining is simply a product of Nokia's anti-community attitudes and policies.
Jun 11 13:12:00 <Khertan> GAN900, yep nokia is the first reason
Jun 11 13:12:13 <Surfa> i must admit that t.m.o is one of the most disgusting forums I've ever seen
Jun 11 13:12:14 <Khertan> talk is resulting of the first ...
Jun 11 13:12:15 <GAN900> alterego, define "dev"
Jun 11 13:12:23 <alterego> GAN900: well, there is more to it that that.
Jun 11 13:12:29 <GAN900> Surfa, you don't get out much, do you? :P
Jun 11 13:12:46 <alterego> GAN900: community developer, not nessassarily software :D
Jun 11 13:12:50 <Surfa> GAN900, going out and discussing on forums are related how? :)
Jun 11 13:12:53 <Khertan> but i was expected more a community of people creating turn around .. than waiting and whining
Jun 11 13:13:05 <b-man> moderation on tmo seems short-handed
Jun 11 13:13:12 <GAN900> alterego, "contributor"
Jun 11 13:13:18 <alterego> Seems a bit lax.
Jun 11 13:13:20 <GAN900> Surfa, in-context
Jun 11 13:13:21 <DocScrutinizer> ~status
Jun 11 13:13:22 <infobot> Since Fri Jun 11 13:08:26 2010, there have been 0 modifications, 0 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 0 commands.  I have been awake for 4m 55s this session, and currently reference 117070 factoids.  I'm using about 15524 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 6.8/0.94 child 0.13/0.09
Jun 11 13:13:43 <GAN900> We're on the internet, you're not getting out enough on it if you think Talk is bad. :P
Jun 11 13:13:44 <alterego> GAN900: yeah, but I'd already said dev. so I thought I'd push that :P
Jun 11 13:13:47 <Surfa> GAN900, or perhaps I go out too much and don't spend enough time on different forums?
Jun 11 13:14:00 <GAN900> alterego, yeah, Reggie is very much a hands off sort of admin
Jun 11 13:14:11 <GAN900> Surfa, __context__
Jun 11 13:14:17 <b-man> try looking at 4chan's /b/ lol
Jun 11 13:14:18 <Surfa> actually t.m.o is worse than motorcycling forums and that is bad :)
Jun 11 13:14:24 <Surfa> really bad
Jun 11 13:14:28 <GAN900> Surfa, it's a joke, man. :)
Jun 11 13:14:29 <alterego> hahah
Jun 11 13:15:16 <Khertan> it s just an feeling ... or does their is less third party developpers now and application developpment than one year ago ... ?
Jun 11 13:16:19 <b-man> "newbies get eaten alive on t.m.o like a bloody trout in a tank of hungry sharks" lol
Jun 11 13:16:29 <alterego> i think there is a blatant la of enthusiasm.
Jun 11 13:16:54 <GAN900> Shit, how do I post a new thread in a forum. . . .
Jun 11 13:16:57 <Myrtti> what you people need is more cheesecake
Jun 11 13:17:12 <GAN900> alterego, quite obviously
Jun 11 13:17:17 <alterego> We were always excited with previous devices. now we all have what we all wanted in the N900 (pretty much) it's kind of bad.
Jun 11 13:17:19 <Stskeeps> i wonder if we stopped being activistic
Jun 11 13:17:25 <GAN900> and it wasn't for initial lack of it
Jun 11 13:17:45 <GAN900> Nokia just choose to cut us off at the knees and kill all of the enthusiasm and goodwill
Jun 11 13:17:56 <GAN900> and it's going to hurt MeeGo, too.
Jun 11 13:18:05 <melmoth> my enthusiasm decreased with the regular strategic changes (gtk->qt, .deb->rpm).I think it died when i realised i needed an intel machine to run the meego emulator.
Jun 11 13:18:37 * melmoth is studying qt none the less. 
Jun 11 13:19:06 <Stskeeps> meego netbook ux, and i still think its cos people dont drop in nvidia libGL for instance
Jun 11 13:19:50 <ptl> GAN900: I agree wholeheartedly
Jun 11 13:20:07 <alterego> exactly, the N900 is what I hoped maemo devices would become but we've now been flooded by impatient customers that think the community forum is a good plac eto bitch about "290 crap apps" and their dissapointment with Nokia.
Jun 11 13:20:33 <Appiah> 290 crap apps?
Jun 11 13:20:48 <achipa> I wonder if MeeGo as such will have a community at all, or just the Moblin style dev-camaraderie, with the rest of the people on device-specific forums
Jun 11 13:21:21 <b-man> alterego: i agree
Jun 11 13:21:26 <achipa> alterego: I protest ! We have 308 crap apps !
Jun 11 13:21:46 <alterego> Appiah: just paraphrasing a post I read yesterday that was pretty insulting tbh.
Jun 11 13:22:20 <alterego> and I'm not really heavily developing, but we all contribute.
Jun 11 13:22:32 <DocScrutinizer> Myrtti: ack
Jun 11 13:23:04 <alterego> and I think there are some kick ass apps.even now, I think we have the most functional device. what are these apps people want? why can't they just tell us so we can provide?
Jun 11 13:23:22 <Stskeeps> achipa: i think its important to see it not as community vs company. its more about committers and people without commit bits. and there's same opportunities to become a team member and provide yourself..
Jun 11 13:23:35 <achipa> alterego: super-duper 3D games and fart apps with cool UIs
Jun 11 13:23:58 <Termana> <b-man> try looking at 4chan's /b/ lol <--- I wouldn't insult /b/ too much, we might hear you!
Jun 11 13:24:02 <alterego> I spend most of my time getting pissed that I can't think of a ecent app to develop. I'm just waiting for a good idea I can get into and enthused about and I'm sure I' not the only one.
Jun 11 13:24:13 <b-man> Termana: hehehe
Jun 11 13:24:36 <achipa> Stskeeps: I'm not talking company perspective at all, just trying to fit Joe User into MeeGo and have difficulties fitting him in there, meego-community and forum.meego.com notwithstanding
Jun 11 13:24:36 <alterego> Well, tbh, I'm not interested or evn good at game dev :D
Jun 11 13:25:50 <Stskeeps> achipa: yeah.. that is difficult cos meego isnt the product as such.. the stuff built on top is
Jun 11 13:25:54 <Khertan> personnaly ... i didn't have any interest in meego for the moment
Jun 11 13:25:59 <achipa> Stskeeps: exactly
Jun 11 13:25:59 <Stskeeps> there's a lot of ambivalence
Jun 11 13:26:00 * Arkenoi still cannot understand why, despite having great developer community, Nokia sucks that much. why people are able to develop and fix everything lightspeed fast outside nokia and if something depends on something inside nokia everything just goes wrong
Jun 11 13:26:22 <RST38h> Arkenoi: There is a simple answer to that
Jun 11 13:26:53 <alterego> We're not tied down with legalities and corporate chains.
Jun 11 13:27:04 <achipa> Stskeeps: and special per-device per-manufacturer APIs are not helping
Jun 11 13:27:13 <DocScrutinizer> Arkenoi: +1
Jun 11 13:27:19 <RST38h> Arkenoi: It is a corporation. It's business is governed by corporate decisions, made by people who are not aware that developers exist, do not know who they are, what they want, and basically have not communicated with any live people at work for the last 10+ years
Jun 11 13:27:36 <Stskeeps> achipa: per manufacturer apis are notoriously difficult if they arent in 'meego sdk'
Jun 11 13:27:43 <RST38h> Arkenoi: [other corpses obviously not inlucded]
Jun 11 13:27:55 <pexi> there are lots of rumours @ finnish media atm how nokia should/could/will/may re-organize their strategy and leaders
Jun 11 13:27:57 <Appiah> time to take down "the man"? :)
Jun 11 13:28:02 * achipa shivers at the thought of the incoming Ovi API
Jun 11 13:28:09 <jacekowski> ovi
Jun 11 13:28:15 <Stskeeps> achipa: but its better (imho) that we finally have a platform we actually can have influence on.
Jun 11 13:28:17 <RST38h> Arkenoi: There is actually a great historic example of such a structure taking a fall: Commodore
Jun 11 13:28:18 <jacekowski> you are talking about that mythical shop
Jun 11 13:28:22 <jacekowski> that will work properly one day
Jun 11 13:28:29 <GAN900> pexi, down with Anssi.
Jun 11 13:28:32 <pupnik> "interesting times" :/
Jun 11 13:28:36 <RST38h> Arkenoi; At the end, their actions lacked any kind of detectable logic
Jun 11 13:28:38 <achipa> Stskeeps: will we ? still not exactly convinced
Jun 11 13:28:44 <MohammadAG51> apt-worker is one fucked up piece of shit
Jun 11 13:28:46 <Appiah> is OVI that bad? I haven't used it ... Dont wanna register at nokia...
Jun 11 13:28:52 <Khertan> Stskeeps: you finnally have a plateform where you feel to have influence on
Jun 11 13:28:59 <RST38h> pupnik: What? Have been reading dailyrotten ? :)
Jun 11 13:29:05 <ptl> MohammadAG51: btw, do you still have that uncrippled apt you recompiled?
Jun 11 13:29:06 <pupnik> people always bitch about appstores
Jun 11 13:29:13 <ptl> MohammadAG51: I can't find it on your site
Jun 11 13:29:22 <b-man> MohammadAG51: it's annoying and a resource hog
Jun 11 13:29:24 <Khertan> Appiah, of course it s bad ... you cannot submit python apps
Jun 11 13:29:31 <MohammadAG51> ptl, I'll dig for it in a bit, but I have it
Jun 11 13:29:40 <ptl> MohammadAG51: thanks
Jun 11 13:29:40 <Appiah> Khertan: eeeh what?
Jun 11 13:29:42 <jacekowski> Khertan: python is a scripting language
Jun 11 13:29:49 <Khertan> jacekowski, and ?
Jun 11 13:29:51 <jacekowski> Khertan: you can't make an application in it
Jun 11 13:29:55 <MohammadAG51> ptl, ovi store doesn't use it btw ;)
Jun 11 13:29:56 <achipa> pupnik: Ovi needs improvement so it could GET to the phase where people could bitch about it :)
Jun 11 13:29:57 <Khertan> jacekowski, LOL
Jun 11 13:30:04 <jacekowski> C FTW
Jun 11 13:30:15 <achipa> jacekowski: C is a no go, too
Jun 11 13:30:16 <jacekowski> even python is C based
Jun 11 13:30:22 <Stskeeps> achipa: if you have merit, you have influence
Jun 11 13:30:26 <Khertan> yeah ... but c sucks !!! it s too slow ! use directly ASM !
Jun 11 13:30:26 <ptl> MohammadAG51: guess not, but I'm tired of trying to download fennec and the likes and getting Handler silently failed
Jun 11 13:30:32 <Appiah> so if I make a pymaemo application its not a application but a script
Jun 11 13:30:46 <b-man> achipa: the linux kernel is c
Jun 11 13:30:57 <Appiah> Guess we need a "Script Manager"
Jun 11 13:30:59 <DocScrutinizer> *yawn*
Jun 11 13:31:03 <achipa> b-man: you can't download the linux kernel from Ovi
Jun 11 13:31:05 <Appiah> beside the Application Manager
Jun 11 13:31:21 <GAN900> Stskeeps, do you?
Jun 11 13:31:29 <Stskeeps> GAN900: yes, i do
Jun 11 13:31:36 <GAN900> I hear that said a lot, but I'm not seeing a lot of it
Jun 11 13:31:39 <GAN900> You're paid
Jun 11 13:31:41 <Khertan> Stskeeps, didn't see anything noticeable :)
Jun 11 13:31:47 <MohammadAG51> porting synaptics would be cool
Jun 11 13:31:58 <Stskeeps> GAN900: i still function as a community member.
Jun 11 13:32:00 <achipa> Stskeeps: I have yet to see that function in practice. We threw out karma, so it's currently buddy-o-cracy with Intel+Nokia BDFL-ism
Jun 11 13:32:17 <Khertan> or worse
Jun 11 13:32:27 <achipa> Stskeeps: (not that karma is a guarantee of anything, but currently we have a purely a subjective estimate of merit)
Jun 11 13:32:34 <Arkenoi> RST38h, redhat and sun/orcale are big corporations too. but they *can* work with opensource without messing everything up.
Jun 11 13:33:05 <Surfa> explain, how has nokia messed up?
Jun 11 13:33:06 <RST38h> Arkenoi: First, Sun/Oracle cannot really work with open source developers
Jun 11 13:33:11 <alterego> I'm sure most of us understand what itams like working for a stupid short sighted corp that try to seem like they'r looking into the future.
Jun 11 13:33:22 <achipa> Stskeeps: for example, what level of Merit would one need to lift SSSE3 requirements ?
Jun 11 13:33:41 <RST38h> Arkenoi: Secondly, in both these cases (especially Redhat's) you have got a corporation living off open source developers, taking their stuff and adopting it for its own needs
Jun 11 13:33:52 <achipa> Stskeeps: or to actively push for a more proactive 3rd party video driver approach ?
Jun 11 13:33:56 <Arkenoi> yes, why don't do the same
Jun 11 13:34:03 <RST38h> Arkenoi: As a matter of fact, Nokia is going this as well in Maemo, and sending a lot fo stuff upstream too
Jun 11 13:34:08 <alterego> developers usually have the best ideas, but management really don't give a shit what you think, unless they can steal it and say it was their idea.
Jun 11 13:34:13 <Arkenoi> i'd be happy if many extras apps will become builtin
Jun 11 13:34:16 <RST38h> Arkenoi: But this model has nothign to do with developers support
Jun 11 13:34:30 <Myrtti> This Too Shall Pass
Jun 11 13:34:32 <Stskeeps> achipa: ssse3 is funny - it does make sense to optimize for it. but i see no reason why sdk should build for it (qt)
Jun 11 13:34:45 * RST38h passes Myrtti a doughnut
Jun 11 13:34:47 <Stskeeps> just like apps should built for v5, not v7
Jun 11 13:35:08 * DocScrutinizer shares the coffee
Jun 11 13:35:20 <RST38h> Arkenoi: You are not committing to anything by taking OSS code and modifying it as you see fit
Jun 11 13:35:30 <Stskeeps> achipa: third party approach - suggest one. intel cant legally drop in nvidia libs :)
Jun 11 13:35:58 <Stskeeps> and by that, i mean LF
Jun 11 13:36:07 <DocScrutinizer> actually this feels like Friday afternoon - wait it *is*... :-P
Jun 11 13:36:08 <alterego> well, it's even worse when you have entity like us (the maemo community) management probably odon't even kbow the tuerm community ... :D
Jun 11 13:36:15 <RST38h> Arkenoi: For example you are not promising that you will take every new version, every code patch, heed any criticism of the company made in the forums, however just
Jun 11 13:36:19 <pexi> alterego, well in lean/agile methods the core development team has an important role from management point of view.. but ofc it is hard to implement it for big organizations
Jun 11 13:36:53 <achipa> Stskeeps: I understand that, just saying that the whole things just reeks of 'we do it our way' and I can't see the 'this is the super-universal standard all mobile linux gadgets will be base on' spirit
Jun 11 13:36:58 <alterego> MeeGo has potential, it  is apparently going to be more open.
Jun 11 13:37:00 <DocScrutinizer> though this particular Fri aft chan mood is quite whiny
Jun 11 13:37:22 <alterego> the community can make choices.
Jun 11 13:37:50 <Arkenoi> btw did anyone see email widget working? mine just shows no messages all the time
Jun 11 13:38:02 <ptl> There could be some kind of antitrust law or something that forces these stupid middle management people on Nokia to be good open source citizens and follow the protocols.
Jun 11 13:38:10 <Reffy> @Arkenoi I'll assume you're using Nokia Messaging?
Jun 11 13:38:20 <Arkenoi> Reffy, yep
Jun 11 13:38:21 <alterego> Yes, why don't we have a positive friday. how can we fix this issue with community being drowned by users :)
Jun 11 13:38:41 <Reffy> Yeah, it's a common bug. Nokia Messaging doesn't work at all with the widget
Jun 11 13:38:55 <Arkenoi> lol
Jun 11 13:39:05 <Arkenoi> and that's why we waited for pr1.2 for months
Jun 11 13:39:11 <Arkenoi> fixing bugs, my ass
Jun 11 13:39:16 <Reffy> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10294
Jun 11 13:39:19 <povbot> Bug 10294: Email desktop widget does not display mails from Nokia Messaging accounts
Jun 11 13:39:27 <Arkenoi> there are damn several times more bugs than 1.1.1 had
Jun 11 13:39:27 <Appiah> Arkenoi: are you not happy with the PR1.2?
Jun 11 13:39:28 <alterego> I vote we organise a maemo jusers conference... then drop a nuke.
Jun 11 13:39:44 <b-man> lol
Jun 11 13:39:53 <Arkenoi> Appiah, is anyone?
Jun 11 13:39:54 <alterego> otoh, they'll all  be overclocking and probably reach some kind of critical mass :D
Jun 11 13:40:07 <Reffy> I knew exactly what was coming with Pr1.2 so I wasn't disappointed
Jun 11 13:40:08 <Appiah> Arkenoi yes
Jun 11 13:40:15 <Termana> DocScrutinizer, *every* afternoon the channel is whiney
Jun 11 13:40:24 <andre900> Reffy, what's with that bug?
Jun 11 13:40:30 <Arkenoi> show me that man ;-) i want to see
Jun 11 13:40:36 <Termana> Its just the level of whinyness.
Jun 11 13:40:36 <marmoute> Termana: which afternoon ?
Jun 11 13:40:39 <Appiah> Talked to my friend yesterday who got a n900 , I myself have not updated yet and I asked about the PR1.2 experince
Jun 11 13:40:39 <Stskeeps> achipa: i am looking forward to meego providing their intentions of a real openly developed system. it will take time and not happen overnight, but a lot of areas are popping out now.
Jun 11 13:40:45 <b-man> woooh! ny virtual machine's network connection is functional again
Jun 11 13:40:49 <b-man> *my
Jun 11 13:40:56 <Reffy> @Andre900
Jun 11 13:40:59 <Reffy> Dammit
Jun 11 13:41:03 <Reffy> Ummm what you mean?
Jun 11 13:41:27 <Termana> marmoute, normally when someone uses the word 'all'
Jun 11 13:41:28 <DocScrutinizer> marmoute: Termana: afternoon somewhere on Sol3
Jun 11 13:41:31 <andre900> Context for the bug URL that you posted here.
Jun 11 13:41:34 <alterego> I was suprised how much harmatten is in gitorios ...
Jun 11 13:41:38 <Termana> marmoute, they mean, all
Jun 11 13:42:28 <b-man> *gitorious ;)
Jun 11 13:42:44 <Reffy> Someone asked why they couldn't see their mails in the email widget so I posted the relevant bug url. I assumed he'd vote for it or something.
Jun 11 13:42:48 <achipa> Stskeeps: hey, I'm not apriori rejecting anything, and am pretty sure that most of the issues stem from plain "dontcare" to "toobusydoingsomethingmoreimportant", not some super-evil conspiracy, but time is precious, we're already way way behind in the game
Jun 11 13:42:53 <marmoute> Termana: but what kind of all ? all afternoon of the week or of the day ?
Jun 11 13:43:28 <andre900> Reffy, oops, missed that when reading here. Okay, sorry :)
Jun 11 13:43:40 <Termana> marmoute, we'll the sentence was specifically, every afternoon of the week. But all day every day would be accurate as well
Jun 11 13:44:16 <Termana> achipa, The Game
Jun 11 13:44:21 <Termana> You already lost it
Jun 11 13:44:41 <marmoute> :-)
Jun 11 13:44:43 <alterego> hah
Jun 11 13:44:58 <achipa> Lost it ? Did I ever have it ? I'm a linux geek ferrichsake ! :D
Jun 11 13:45:13 <Stskeeps> achipa: my understanding is that people are happy to finally work in the open. some habit die hard though, so we need a compelling infrastructure for people not to fall back on internal tools.
Jun 11 13:45:30 <alterego> omfg, has it got that bad that now "the game" is here ...
Jun 11 13:46:06 <Khertan> Hum ... i ve a question ... a bit out of topic ... but what soft did you use for your Personnal backups ? i ve try some ... but i found them not stable enought ... i m trying to backup to a simple nas which support only ftp/smb
Jun 11 13:46:13 <alterego> Stskeeps: I agree completely, I'm sure the meego devices dept at Nokia are extremely happy about it.
Jun 11 13:46:16 <Termana> alterego, sorry, going back to 4chan now :P lol
Jun 11 13:46:31 <melmoth> Khertan: rsync & ssh
Jun 11 13:46:45 <alterego> in fact reading blogs and stuff they're the most up beat out of everyone and it does truely seem geniune.
Jun 11 13:47:02 <Khertan> melmoth, hum ... this is the problem ... no scp on the nas
Jun 11 13:47:16 <Khertan> no rsync daemon too
Jun 11 13:47:18 <Stskeeps> alterego: the open mindset does exist but it is a bit like 'is it okay to come out of the cave now?' mentality
Jun 11 13:47:31 <melmoth> mount your backup directory as a samba share ?
Jun 11 13:47:50 <Stskeeps> QA discussions in public between nokians, intelians, others, for instance
Jun 11 13:48:18 <marmoute> alterego: the Game are everywhere everybody play it.
Jun 11 13:48:33 <Khertan> melmoth ... hum ... why i didn't think about something like that ... pfff
Jun 11 13:48:36 <achipa> Stskeeps: yeah, that's interesting. But also scary for outsiders, especially if you're used to being presented a finished piece of software
Jun 11 13:48:36 <Khertan> melmoth, thx :)
Jun 11 13:48:38 <Termana> GOOGLIANS
Jun 11 13:48:48 <Termana> sorry had to chuck that in there
Jun 11 13:50:13 <alterego> I'm hoping to be pleasantly supprised with the openness of the next device from Nokia. but I'm not holding my breathe. we know that there are going to be 4 UX's 2 of which are mobile. I don't see Nokia opening too much that aspect of Harmattan.
Jun 11 13:50:49 <alterego> and we've seen the tablet UX, looks like it has a lot of apps in by default. what will users expect to see in the mobile UX?
Jun 11 13:51:10 <achipa> Stskeeps: speaking of which, I still don't see any focus on educating the PUBLIC (=non-core-dev power users) what open development is and how it works, and IMHO that's pretty essential otherwise people will just treat it as patchwork
Jun 11 13:51:35 <Termana> alterego, when your talking about Nokia opening the Harmattan UX are you specifically talking about the UI or the apps on top as well?
Jun 11 13:51:48 <alterego> And vendors, well, I can really see them screwing this.
Jun 11 13:52:17 <achipa> alterego: isn't it 5 UX-es ?
Jun 11 13:52:23 <alterego> Termana: a mixture really, I've noticed there is a lot of Harmattan open, but the apps are part of the UX and should be open?
Jun 11 13:52:32 <alterego> achipa: probably :)
Jun 11 13:53:08 <alterego> Termana: just looking at the tablet UX demo, the guy said they were core UX apps. what will lHarmattan have?
Jun 11 13:53:12 <Stskeeps> achipa: a very good question. how do you tell users how open developers work?
Jun 11 13:53:38 <alterego> How many maemo 5 apps are open? X Terminal?
Jun 11 13:53:48 <Khertan> alterego, modest
Jun 11 13:53:56 <SpeedEvil> alterego: modest
Jun 11 13:53:58 <Termana> alterego, I think you'll find the UI itself is open. They will be using the Handset UX's UI AFAIK. But there will probably be things in the Harmattan UX not included in the Handset UX
Jun 11 13:54:01 <Termana> eg. Ovi Store
Jun 11 13:54:02 <SpeedEvil> alterego: most of hildon
Jun 11 13:54:03 <alterego> Yeah, modest too.
Jun 11 13:54:04 <Myrtti> my, aren't we a positive lot
Jun 11 13:54:23 <alterego> SpeedEvil: I mean apps, core apps.
Jun 11 13:54:33 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 11 13:54:35 <Stskeeps> achipa: a very good question. how do you tell users how open development works?
Jun 11 13:54:37 <SpeedEvil> well - modest
Jun 11 13:54:39 <zaheerm-lp> hildon application manager
Jun 11 13:54:58 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: Think of it as applications coded by a herd of unpaid cats.
Jun 11 13:55:00 <achipa> Stskeeps: I'm a coder-tinkener, it's hard to make myself think as a general user, but I DO see that there is a difference-in-perception issue, stemming from users not familiar with the process :(
Jun 11 13:55:04 <ptl> damn. pulseaudio now frequently gets caught in a high-CPU cycle, I have to kill it otherwise it keeps using 1/3 of CPU time when idle.
Jun 11 13:55:07 <RST38h> http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/06/main-wikileaks-source-outed/57753/
Jun 11 13:55:17 * RST38h laughs satanically
Jun 11 13:55:24 <alterego> SpeedEvil: more like monkeys :P
Jun 11 13:55:24 <Stskeeps> achipa: talk.maemo.org is a example of that
Jun 11 13:55:46 <Termana> Stskeeps, I didn't realise you have a parrot
Jun 11 13:55:53 <achipa> Stskeeps: just like doctors. You want to hear 'my problem is this, do that and all will be well'. You don't want to hear half a dozen doctors disagreeing and talking about compromise
Jun 11 13:55:55 <Stskeeps> Termana: what?
Jun 11 13:55:55 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 11 13:56:02 <alterego> And GAN900 who's just the silverback of the community :P
Jun 11 13:56:10 <achipa> (even though technically that is what *is* and should be happening)
Jun 11 13:56:12 <Termana> Stskeeps, nothing :P you just repeated what you said twice
Jun 11 13:56:23 * Mece is always enthusiastic about all things maemo and meego. He approaches problems with a childlike naivity and sense of wonder.
Jun 11 13:56:35 <Stskeeps> Termana: it's boiling hot here
Jun 11 13:56:43 <Termana> Stskeeps, achipa - anyway, is it really important for end-users to know how the development works? Because I'm not sure they care too much
Jun 11 13:57:14 <achipa> Termana: the 'trouble' is they ARE more exposed to it
Jun 11 13:57:32 <RST38h> end-users only need to know when to fuck off, true
Jun 11 13:57:41 <achipa> as said, it's like hearing a bunch of doctors discussing course of action - it's scary (but normal)
Jun 11 13:58:17 <Aranel> initctl: mce respawning too fast, stopped wha..?
Jun 11 13:58:28 <jo-erlend> hehe... i just had to test this. i read an article about iphone4, that it could run 4 apps at the same time. im currently running 32 on n900 and its still fast!
Jun 11 13:58:39 <alterego> I think a lot of things would be solved if thread creators could admin their own threads :)
Jun 11 13:58:43 <Termana> RST38h, well thats not really what I meant :P but ok
Jun 11 13:58:56 <jacekowski> alterego: no
Jun 11 13:59:02 <achipa> Termana: plus, it can even be detrimental - see for example the USB host thread, people could not keep on topic even if their life depended on it
Jun 11 13:59:09 <jacekowski> alterego: it will finish in anarchy
Jun 11 13:59:10 <alterego> We'd just have a thread per user and only the interesting ones would be worth reading.
Jun 11 13:59:34 <alterego> jacekowski: that's kind of close now right? :P
Jun 11 13:59:44 <SpeedEvil> achipa: Especially with the problem that in some cases, unskilled people literally can't help.
Jun 11 13:59:58 <jacekowski> alterego: it's not even as half as close to what would happen
Jun 11 14:00:08 <SpeedEvil> achipa: Basically - if you can't at least read datasheets, or kernel code - you're not helping in that thread.
Jun 11 14:00:29 <jacekowski> s/read/understand/
Jun 11 14:00:48 <SpeedEvil> (other than thanks, perhaps, but even then - you don't know who to thank)
Jun 11 14:00:48 <Stskeeps> achipa: anyway.. it all bends down to, if you can contribute, you can gain merit, if you have merit, you can influence decisions in the field you're contributing in
Jun 11 14:01:35 <Stskeeps> achipa: if your team lead is not open to sanity, that's where the discussions really start and you can move disputes to TSG
Jun 11 14:01:38 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 11 14:01:56 <achipa> SpeedEvil: that's what I'm saying about general user education - they're simply used to jumping in discussiong in forums, and have no understanding of what 'technical discussion' means - that's why there has to be some level of platform education
Jun 11 14:01:57 <alterego> I think the basic theme is obviously impatience.
Jun 11 14:02:24 <alterego> maybe auto ban people that use the word "when" :P
Jun 11 14:02:41 <Stskeeps> achipa: but if you're wondering how big this thing is.. we're having people talking in a public irc channel about BME and battery charging.
Jun 11 14:02:50 <alterego> actually "when will" would be more succinct.
Jun 11 14:03:00 <Stskeeps> achipa: nokians and potential future team members exchanging ideas
Jun 11 14:03:09 <Stskeeps> now imagine that up on a bigger scale
Jun 11 14:03:28 <RST38h> Stskeeps: even the current scale took years to achieve and is quickly dissolving
Jun 11 14:03:57 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i believe all our trouble exists from a link to talk.maemo.org on maemo.nokia.com :P
Jun 11 14:04:06 <RST38h> Stskeeps: With meego.com being a separate community frm maemo.org, there will not be continuity between these communities
Jun 11 14:04:20 <Stskeeps> RST38h: am i a cynic for being happy about the community being reset?
Jun 11 14:04:33 <alterego> RST38h: agreed, but the cool kids willl stay here :P
Jun 11 14:04:36 <achipa> Stskeeps: Yeah, that's all OK, but the problem is as follows - to reach the merit level, you have to be seriously invested in a particular area. So ? Well, this precludes people who have a different (but strong !) tech background
Jun 11 14:04:41 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Mmm, no, it does make sense to a certain degree
Jun 11 14:04:56 <RST38h> Stskeeps: But I believe the drawbacks will overweight the advantages
Jun 11 14:05:33 <achipa> Stskeeps: take for example the Qt vs GTK issue, or the RPM vs DEB angle, it is very difficult to contribute as those who know equally well the merits and drawbacks of both are very few
Jun 11 14:05:36 <Stskeeps> achipa: aren't you typically invested already and has experience?
Jun 11 14:05:51 <Stskeeps> achipa: that's up in architecture which is a place i wouldn't wish upon anyone :P
Jun 11 14:06:03 <alterego> I see my mission as integrating services on the devices. Enhancing inbuilt UX, that's why I did the mafw telepathy status updater. stupid little app, but it's kind of what I'm interested in. Just looking at where to go next.
Jun 11 14:06:23 <Stskeeps> achipa: the issue isn't made easier by that a large number of community members have been sucked into nokia over time :)
Jun 11 14:06:27 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Between having to deal with raving teenagers and not having the current developers community we have with maemo.org, I would take the first
Jun 11 14:06:47 <alterego> heh
Jun 11 14:06:57 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Besides, it would mean I could go there every weekend and scalp a few
Jun 11 14:07:23 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Out of sheer sadistic fun
Jun 11 14:07:30 <achipa> Stskeeps: what I'm saying is that to be able to change something, you have to have had contributed to it a great deal, which can get counterintuitive :) It's a bit like saying that for a party to lose power they have to agree with it :)
Jun 11 14:07:33 <Termana> Maybe its just me, but relatively I think the RPM vs DEB debate is just a bunch people having a pissing match. Who really cares, I'm sure either one would be able to do the job its suppose to do.
Jun 11 14:08:18 <achipa> Termana: the bottom line is it doesn't touch users, but they DO see it, so it's get all FUDdy
Jun 11 14:08:26 <RST38h> achipa: Maybe you should return to square #1: You *cannot* change anything in Maemo, no matter what kind of merit you have earned
Jun 11 14:08:39 <Stskeeps> achipa: depending on area of contribution. hopefully there'll be a large number of teams so you can contribute in an area and work your way up
Jun 11 14:08:42 <RST38h> achipa: In fact, you cannot change much in Maemo even if you are *working* for Maemo Devices as a developer
Jun 11 14:08:51 <alterego> Termana: I have the same stance there, I might personally prefer deb, but that preference comes from an inherent trust of debian systems, that are my preference in general Linux terms ...
Jun 11 14:09:29 <Myrtti> people need better hobbies
Jun 11 14:09:30 <Stskeeps> i mean, even though i have the failed Mer project on my back, that experience is getting widely accepted as knowing something about mobile linux and going about things :)
Jun 11 14:09:37 <alterego> at least it's not gentoo .... :D
Jun 11 14:09:45 <Stskeeps> and contributions speaking for themselves
Jun 11 14:09:46 <RST38h> achipa: The decisions are often done by people who have "proper" corporate standing but have no expertise to make the decisions
Jun 11 14:09:58 <alterego> Stskeeps: Mer would have been awesome :(
Jun 11 14:10:04 <RST38h> Myrtti: knitting?
Jun 11 14:10:07 <Stskeeps> alterego: MeeGo's going to be awesome-r
Jun 11 14:10:27 <alterego> Stskeeps: yes, it seems so :)
Jun 11 14:10:28 <Myrtti> RST38h: cooking or gardening are options too
Jun 11 14:10:29 <Termana> Thats right because they added a -r
Jun 11 14:10:44 <Termana> :P
Jun 11 14:10:48 <DocScrutinizer> Myrtti: sitting here watching IRC, I tend to agree with you, at least for my case
Jun 11 14:10:58 <RST38h> Myrtti: hunting!
Jun 11 14:10:59 <alterego> especially with the _corporate_ support against antitrust bs.
Jun 11 14:11:03 <Stskeeps> at least my general impression of the current architects is people that have a boatload of merit :P
Jun 11 14:11:20 <Stskeeps> and i can understand qt vs gtk and rpm vs deb
Jun 11 14:11:24 <achipa> Myrtti: http://img40.imagefra.me/img/img40/6/6/5/yagodinac/f_nsvsfm_3df9ce5.jpg
Jun 11 14:11:29 * RST38h sighs at Stskeeps' general impression
Jun 11 14:11:31 <Stskeeps> (and no, i'm not just a fanboy, i really do criticise stuf.)
Jun 11 14:11:32 <achipa> Myrtti: when fishing is not an option, of course
Jun 11 14:11:42 <Myrtti> indeed
Jun 11 14:11:56 * DocScrutinizer ponders to charge up that 1000uF/400V capacitor :-P
Jun 11 14:12:02 <DocScrutinizer> always has been fun
Jun 11 14:12:36 <alterego> Stskeeps: I used to prefer Gtk, in someways I still do, but Qt is rapidly becoming better in my eye, all my maemo/meego is Qt from now on. It does the whole XP thing much better than Gtk...
Jun 11 14:12:43 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: used to call it "jumpy", eh ?
Jun 11 14:13:02 <DocScrutinizer> with some tin foil it's really exciting
Jun 11 14:13:14 <DocScrutinizer> and LOUD
Jun 11 14:14:03 <LuciusMare> Hello, how to reset the password for "lock screen"?
Jun 11 14:14:06 <DocScrutinizer> elementary physics
Jun 11 14:14:36 <DocScrutinizer> LuciusMare: too bad, you need to visit nokia store afaik
Jun 11 14:15:33 <alterego> LuciusMare: type in the old one, then type in the new one and confirm? :P
Jun 11 14:15:54 <LuciusMare> DocScrutinizer: uh? It can't be simly reflashed?
Jun 11 14:16:02 <DocScrutinizer> afaik not
Jun 11 14:16:11 <LuciusMare> aw
Jun 11 14:16:13 <achipa> which reminds me... haven't tried the nightshot mode for astrophotography, there's something less polarizing for tonight's activities :)
Jun 11 14:16:21 <LuciusMare> Any alternatives how to lock screen?
Jun 11 14:16:44 <DocScrutinizer> LuciusMare: err what?
Jun 11 14:17:00 <LuciusMare> DocScrutinizer: other app to lock screen
Jun 11 14:17:10 <RST38h> achipa: You can see stars from where you are?
Jun 11 14:17:17 <LuciusMare> maybe requesting the password on startup
Jun 11 14:17:51 <DocScrutinizer> LuciusMare: sorry I don't get your problem
Jun 11 14:17:53 <achipa> RST38h: not NOW, but _tonight_ I certainly will be able to :)
Jun 11 14:18:11 <DocScrutinizer> LuciusMare: thought you locked your device and forgot the password
Jun 11 14:19:07 <achipa> RST38h: I'm not in Finland currently so I actually get a few hours of actual cloud-free nighttime even in June :)
Jun 11 14:19:21 <RST38h> achipa: lucky
Jun 11 14:19:30 <LuciusMare> I didn't lock it, I just set the password and forgot it -_-
Jun 11 14:20:00 <DocScrutinizer> aaah, so make sure you got ssh configured
Jun 11 14:20:11 <LuciusMare> heh
Jun 11 14:20:27 <MohammadAG51> qwerty12 made an app to change it - I think
Jun 11 14:21:30 <DocScrutinizer> I read something about it long ago. maybe it's something about http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20465
Jun 11 14:24:26 <crashanddie> there's one thing that always bothered me with wardriving and monitoring networks
Jun 11 14:24:51 <crashanddie> there's no tool to "see" what other people are browsing
Jun 11 14:25:05 <LuciusMare> :o
Jun 11 14:25:11 <crashanddie> I'm obviously not interested in https and shit
Jun 11 14:25:28 <SpeedEvil> crashanddie: yes there is
Jun 11 14:25:40 <crashanddie> SpeedEvil: so it displays the web pages that are coming back?
Jun 11 14:25:46 <DocScrutinizer> LuciusMare: maybe this might help: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS#dbus-send-unlock  -  at least to find more info
Jun 11 14:26:19 <SpeedEvil> http://tcpick.sourceforge.net/
Jun 11 14:26:22 <SpeedEvil> crashanddie:
Jun 11 14:26:27 <SpeedEvil> Well - nearly.
Jun 11 14:26:49 <crashanddie> only text-based
Jun 11 14:26:56 <crashanddie> I want graphical, see the web page the guy is browsing
Jun 11 14:27:23 <SpeedEvil> crashanddie: You'd need a few dozen lines of scripting, in order to push it into a directory structure compatible with wwwoffled - or some other webcache, with fake URLs
Jun 11 14:27:32 <SpeedEvil> crashanddie: and then a thing to point the browser at it
Jun 11 14:27:50 <crashanddie> or write a browser that could use some cap file directly
Jun 11 14:27:59 <SpeedEvil> that looks significantly harder.
Jun 11 14:28:08 <crashanddie> filter the cap in wireshark to only track http streams
Jun 11 14:28:19 <SpeedEvil> This thing already emits the files in - more or less - the right structure for wwwoffled
Jun 11 14:28:35 <SpeedEvil> you just need to move them to teh right filename, and directory, and it will basically work.
Jun 11 14:29:11 <LuciusMare> I'll never browse on wifi again
Jun 11 14:29:32 <SpeedEvil> WPA is really hard to sniff.
Jun 11 14:29:37 <SpeedEvil> WEP quite easy
Jun 11 14:30:40 <LuciusMare> I'll never browse on unprotected wifis again
Jun 11 14:31:19 <SpeedEvil> I'm currently taking part in a study, which involves tracking all my web browsing on the n900.
Jun 11 14:31:20 <DocScrutinizer> I don't care
Jun 11 14:31:49 <SpeedEvil> I just don't do anything illegal on the n900, so it's not a major concern.
Jun 11 14:31:51 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: they really need to pay you better for that :-P
Jun 11 14:32:10 <SpeedEvil> yeah - well - it pays for the internets connection to the n900.
Jun 11 14:33:20 <LuciusMare> SpeedEvil: "I've you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to fear."? :P
Jun 11 14:33:31 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 11 14:34:28 <crashanddie> "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place." --Google CEO Eric Schmidt
Jun 11 14:34:51 <SpeedEvil> For various reasons - I don't do anything questionable on the n900.
Jun 11 14:35:17 <SpeedEvil> So - if the browsing history were made public, it doesn't bother me.
Jun 11 14:35:49 <Termana> /nick FBI
Jun 11 14:35:50 <Termana> SpeedEvil, yes, but we're interested in what questionable things you are doing on other devices/computers.
Jun 11 14:35:56 <LuciusMare> Meh, so the solution: don't go out?
Jun 11 14:35:58 <Termana> :P
Jun 11 14:37:01 <Tachikoma> isn't it possible to just browse without creating a history?
Jun 11 14:38:34 <SpeedEvil> No.
Jun 11 14:38:48 <SpeedEvil> You will always create some traces - even in only the farside logs.
Jun 11 14:39:08 <SpeedEvil> The best you can do is to anonymise your origin, and merge it with others.
Jun 11 14:39:20 <DocScrutinizer> I obviously should stop thinking, as not always I want everybody to know what I think
Jun 11 14:39:44 <LuciusMare> Become anonymous(tm) .
Jun 11 14:40:11 <DocScrutinizer> but then, if Google CEO Eric Schmidt would eat his ofn dogfood, we never seen google
Jun 11 14:40:40 * SpeedEvil is economising on food.
Jun 11 14:40:45 <SpeedEvil> I haven't gone that far though.
Jun 11 14:42:00 <DocScrutinizer> there's quite a number of other stuff than just dogfood I'd like to shove down Eric's throat
Jun 11 14:42:08 <LuciusMare> LOL
Jun 11 14:42:18 <LuciusMare> Why so, DocScrutinizer?
Jun 11 14:43:02 <Tachikoma> SpeedEvil: what are farsight logs?
Jun 11 14:43:09 <Tachikoma> farside logs
Jun 11 14:43:17 <DocScrutinizer> because he sounds like all those other wankers, the one we suffered from 33-45, the founder of scientology, you name it
Jun 11 14:43:30 <SpeedEvil> Tachikoma: err - what?
Jun 11 14:43:35 <SpeedEvil> Tachikoma: oh
Jun 11 14:43:36 <th3hate> Someone help: http://bit.ly/b5Mek4
Jun 11 14:43:47 <SpeedEvil> Tachikoma: For example - browse to 4chan.
Jun 11 14:43:51 <sjgadsby> Tachikoma:  Logs on the far side of the connection, on web server.
Jun 11 14:43:58 <SpeedEvil> Tachikoma: 4chan will have some record of inbound connections.
Jun 11 14:44:13 <SpeedEvil> Tachikoma: If you have a static IP, that points directly at you with no indirection.
Jun 11 14:44:20 <SpeedEvil> Tachikoma: If you're on NAT - it's a bit harder.
Jun 11 14:44:24 <LuciusMare> Why did you choose 4chan as the example? O_o
Jun 11 14:45:03 <Tachikoma> yeah, that stuff usually gets hidden via anonymizers like tor, doesn't it. I assumed already anonym browsing and was wondering if one could also shut up the browser ...
Jun 11 14:45:22 <SpeedEvil> Tachikoma: Well - somewhat
Jun 11 14:45:34 <th3hate> i'm getting this error when i download wget: http://bit.ly/b5Mek4
Jun 11 14:45:39 <th3hate> how to fox?
Jun 11 14:45:43 <th3hate> fix*
Jun 11 14:46:01 <SpeedEvil> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/effs-panopticlick-and-torbutton - for example
Jun 11 14:46:01 <Tachikoma> th3hate: apt-get update?
Jun 11 14:46:32 <Tachikoma> SpeedEvil: thanks, that looks interesting, will read tonight
Jun 11 14:46:48 <SpeedEvil> Tachikoma: Getting true anonymity is hard.
Jun 11 14:46:58 <SpeedEvil> Tachikoma: It basically means leaking no information - like history
Jun 11 14:47:07 <Tachikoma> SpeedEvil: i know.
Jun 11 14:47:19 <crashanddie> SpeedEvil: isn't the whole point of 4chan that they delete everything after a month or so? Inluding logs and everything?
Jun 11 14:47:37 <SpeedEvil> http://whattheinternetknowsaboutyou.com/
Jun 11 14:47:45 <SpeedEvil> crashanddie: Or do they?
Jun 11 14:48:01 <SpeedEvil> crashanddie: Is moot really running 4chan, or is it the FBI.
Jun 11 14:48:07 <Tachikoma> i always wondered what privoxy actually filters but never had time to take a deeper look. currently that is my "out-of-the-box" solution to feel a little bit better ;)
Jun 11 14:48:18 <SpeedEvil> The above website indicates another problem - CSS history leaks
Jun 11 14:48:18 <crashanddie> SpeedEvil: "Congratulations, we did not find anything in this category in your browser history."
Jun 11 14:48:52 <SpeedEvil> On the PC I use for my all my n900 browsing, it shows no xxx sites.
Jun 11 14:48:54 <DocScrutinizer> get an anonymous prepaid SIM, change your IMEI, browse thru 3G only, from a place where you usually aren't doing this, and never use that phone for any other purpose, or to access any personalized website/service, like e.g email-POP3
Jun 11 14:49:05 <Tachikoma> I know people that just use differen firefox profiles for different kind of websites ...
Jun 11 14:49:26 <SpeedEvil> Tachikoma: But do they use different resolutions, extensions, versions of firefox?
Jun 11 14:49:30 <SpeedEvil> Tachikoma: OSs, ...
Jun 11 14:49:42 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: or just run a windows VM, change the mac address in vmware, then connect to a public hotspot at mcdonalds or something
Jun 11 14:50:17 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: it'll be sometime before mac addresses will allow government agencies to track you, anyhoo
Jun 11 14:50:17 <Tachikoma> SpeedEvil: of course not, this is just to feel better - like me using provoxy
Jun 11 14:50:24 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: hmm, equally valid, though you need to watch out for surveilance cams etc
Jun 11 14:50:41 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: large 1.2m dish pointing at a distant AP
Jun 11 14:50:49 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: same for n900 browsing :) CSI could probably read our screens in the reflection of the guy with sunglasses at starbucks
Jun 11 14:51:06 <Tachikoma> wasn't that CTU ?;
Jun 11 14:51:08 <Tachikoma> ;)
Jun 11 14:51:13 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: no they can't
Jun 11 14:51:38 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: yes they can.
Jun 11 14:51:44 <SpeedEvil> They have visual basic.
Jun 11 14:51:50 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, sorry, yes they can - I got your statement wrong
Jun 11 14:52:06 * LuciusMare is getting paranoid
Jun 11 14:52:25 <DocScrutinizer> for CRT you can read out the image content from indirect light
Jun 11 14:52:28 <Tachikoma> currently i browse from n900 only through openvpn -> home. Not for privacy but to avoid the forced redirects to the telephone companies proxies that scale down all pictures and screw with content in other ways ....
Jun 11 14:53:11 <th3hate> Tachikoma: apt-get update didn't fix it
Jun 11 14:53:28 <DocScrutinizer> reflection of the image in a sunglasses is a much simpler matter though
Jun 11 14:54:04 <Tachikoma> th3hate: mh, usually i get this message when the local package database points to some package on the seerver that is not there anymore, so it fixed it for me usually/
Jun 11 14:54:09 <SpeedEvil> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/03/09/199242
Jun 11 14:54:15 <DocScrutinizer> th3hate: iirc wget is in tools repo
Jun 11 14:54:18 <SpeedEvil> snooping on CRTs with indirect light
Jun 11 14:54:53 <DocScrutinizer> tzzz
Jun 11 14:54:54 <LuciusMare> how is the history reading even possible?
Jun 11 14:54:58 <th3hate> DocScrutinizer: how to iirc wget?
Jun 11 14:55:09 <SpeedEvil> www.springerlink.com/index/b334pxu7x060213l.pdf
Jun 11 14:55:20 <SpeedEvil> Snooping on LCDs with RF
Jun 11 14:55:52 <RST38h> Try snooping on LCDs with the tiny magnets implanted into your fingers
Jun 11 14:55:55 <SpeedEvil> http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/felten/acoustic-snooping-typed-information
Jun 11 14:56:00 <SpeedEvil> snooping on keyboards with sound
Jun 11 14:56:04 <Tachikoma> SpeedEvil: i guess you already know this: http://www.erikyyy.de/tempest/
Jun 11 14:56:16 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 11 14:56:19 <Tachikoma> you can play music on your radio using your CRT monitor as transmitter :)
Jun 11 14:56:45 <LuciusMare> no, really :<
Jun 11 14:56:46 <SpeedEvil> Tachikoma: there are much cooler ones.
Jun 11 14:56:59 <th3hate> How do i iirc a package @?
Jun 11 14:57:04 <Tachikoma> SpeedEvil: i only tried that years ago - when CRTs were still popular
Jun 11 14:57:07 <SpeedEvil> http://bellard.org/
Jun 11 14:57:12 <SpeedEvil> _so_ much awesomeness
Jun 11 14:57:25 <SpeedEvil> Specifically - http://bellard.org/dvbt/
Jun 11 14:57:35 <SpeedEvil> broadcast digital video signal with CRT
Jun 11 14:57:36 <Tachikoma> just read it, crazy :)
Jun 11 14:58:10 <DocScrutinizer> th3hate: enable all repositories, incl -devel and -tools, then redo apt-get update and aptg-get install wget
Jun 11 14:58:45 <DocScrutinizer> then disable all the repos again that you just had enabled!!
Jun 11 14:59:03 <DocScrutinizer> and do a apt-get update agin
Jun 11 14:59:59 <MohammadAG51> wget is in -devel, qole needs it for easy-deb-chroot
Jun 11 15:00:06 <th3hate> DocScrutinizer: i know i did that but im still getting the error
Jun 11 15:00:10 <th3hate> maybe wget is really missing?
Jun 11 15:00:32 <Tachikoma> then an apt-get update would still solve it and you get "no such package" or a similar message
Jun 11 15:00:38 <MohammadAG51> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 reinstalled, 0 to remove and 5 not upgraded.
Jun 11 15:00:40 <MohammadAG51> nope
Jun 11 15:00:59 <crashanddie> Tachikoma: or in bones, from old (printed) emails, they found the IP address of the guy (incidentaly in the 192.168 range), and they were able to immediately view his screen, and then his webcam.
Jun 11 15:01:09 <DocScrutinizer> th3hate: something in your install is borked
Jun 11 15:01:17 <MohammadAG51> it's in extras too
Jun 11 15:01:19 <MohammadAG51> Get:1 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free wget 1.10.2-2osso3 [620kB]
Jun 11 15:01:48 * Tachikoma just creates his first gitorious repository :)
Jun 11 15:02:13 <Tachikoma> crashanddie: bones?
Jun 11 15:02:17 <th3hate> can i download it from app manager directly?
Jun 11 15:03:06 <crashanddie> Tachikoma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bones_(TV_series)
Jun 11 15:04:15 <Tachikoma> crashanddie: ah - now it makes sense :) pseudo scientific TV series and reality - two different things :)
Jun 11 15:04:26 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 11 15:04:33 <MohammadAG51> it's a cool show though
Jun 11 15:04:42 <crashanddie> good characters, I love TJ Thyne
Jun 11 15:04:48 <Tachikoma> yeah, i actually know it, just didn't get it immediatly
Jun 11 15:05:49 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: (view screen/webcam) isn't that exactly how windows works, though?
Jun 11 15:06:31 <crashanddie> superb shortfilm with tj thyne: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbk980jV7Ao
Jun 11 15:06:54 <xDaReaperx> Hi
Jun 11 15:07:01 <xDaReaperx> is anyone there in need serious help
Jun 11 15:07:11 <xDaReaperx> my N900 shows the logo and vibrates but dosent start
Jun 11 15:07:19 <xDaReaperx> it keeps showing the Nokia logo and vibrates
Jun 11 15:07:27 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Jun 11 15:07:35 <MohammadAG51> infobot, flashing
Jun 11 15:07:36 <infobot> i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jun 11 15:07:40 <crashanddie> < xDaReaperx> is anyone there in need serious help <-- you? :D
Jun 11 15:08:05 <xDaReaperx> oh i have to flash ?
Jun 11 15:08:21 <xDaReaperx> will i loose data ?
Jun 11 15:08:28 <crashanddie> no, but you may lose data
Jun 11 15:08:42 <DocScrutinizer> not much though
Jun 11 15:09:01 <xDaReaperx> hmm what kind of data
Jun 11 15:09:04 <xDaReaperx> images and stuff ?
Jun 11 15:09:07 <crashanddie> no
Jun 11 15:09:08 <DocScrutinizer> just enough to remind you about backup app
Jun 11 15:09:11 <crashanddie> those are on the emmc
Jun 11 15:09:15 <xDaReaperx> i have backuped
Jun 11 15:09:23 <xDaReaperx> but how do i flash if the mobile wont start ?
Jun 11 15:09:36 <crashanddie> xDaReaperx: usb and stuff?
Jun 11 15:09:47 <DocScrutinizer> which logo exactly does it show?
Jun 11 15:09:47 <xDaReaperx> oh
Jun 11 15:09:56 <xDaReaperx> nothing only the Nokia logo comes up and it vibrates
Jun 11 15:10:01 <xDaReaperx> and goes blank and again comes up and vibrates
Jun 11 15:10:04 <xDaReaperx> keeps doing the same thing
Jun 11 15:10:07 <xDaReaperx> over and over
Jun 11 15:10:20 <DocScrutinizer> hold 'u' button
Jun 11 15:10:29 <DocScrutinizer> see if it stops looping
Jun 11 15:10:32 <xDaReaperx> ok
Jun 11 15:11:48 <DocScrutinizer> then reflash rootfs
Jun 11 15:12:36 <xDaReaperx> holding U dosent stop it looping
Jun 11 15:13:29 <xDaReaperx> can you tell me which package to download plz : http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php
Jun 11 15:13:35 <xDaReaperx> should i download the .exe ?
Jun 11 15:16:08 <DocScrutinizer> ~tell xDaReaperx about flashing
Jun 11 15:16:29 <BCMM> what do i need to get started with compiling stuff for the n900?
Jun 11 15:16:39 <BCMM> (e.g. just a C Hello World to start with)
Jun 11 15:18:50 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide
Jun 11 15:18:59 <th3hate> south africa scored finally :P
Jun 11 15:19:03 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: thanks
Jun 11 15:20:23 <BCMM> also, any gentoo users here? is dev-embedded/scratchbox-devkit-maemo3 what i need, and is it up-to-date?
Jun 11 15:20:25 <xDaReaperx> DocScrutinizer : Now i've kept my device for recharging , since it is said to charge the battery to the fullest , but when i charge the phones loops again
Jun 11 15:21:00 <DocScrutinizer> can you switch it down by holding the power button?
Jun 11 15:21:34 <xDaReaperx> no i cant
Jun 11 15:21:38 <xDaReaperx> i have to remove the battery
Jun 11 15:22:05 <DocScrutinizer> then I suggest you don't waste battery on useless effort to charge, but start flashing right away
Jun 11 15:22:41 <xDaReaperx> okay fine
Jun 11 15:22:49 <DocScrutinizer> on a second thought, your problem might be caused by a broken battery as well
Jun 11 15:22:58 <Escafane> \join #redditscooer
Jun 11 15:23:07 <Escafane> \join #redditsoccer
Jun 11 15:23:15 <DocScrutinizer> not yet
Jun 11 15:23:22 <xDaReaperx> no my battery is new
Jun 11 15:23:34 <xDaReaperx> some app installed this Kernel power for users
Jun 11 15:23:38 <xDaReaperx> and this caused the problem
Jun 11 15:23:40 <DocScrutinizer> Escafane: windows, eh? ;-P
Jun 11 15:23:46 <xDaReaperx> it was not able to restore the nokia kernel
Jun 11 15:23:56 <xDaReaperx> and told me to restart the phone and since then i got this problem
Jun 11 15:23:56 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Jun 11 15:23:59 <Escafane> er yes. also wrong page
Jun 11 15:25:20 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: you need to reflash kernel and rootfs. both should work from flasher, by flashing COMBINED fiasco image
Jun 11 15:25:35 <xDaReaperx> how do i do that ?
Jun 11 15:25:45 <MohammadAG51> infobot, flashing
Jun 11 15:25:47 <infobot> [flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jun 11 15:25:47 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: I strongly suggest you try using the linux flasher
Jun 11 15:26:05 <xDaReaperx> but i should have linux for that dont i ?
Jun 11 15:26:12 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: I did a better job on that, previously :-P
Jun 11 15:26:35 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: yes, would help
Jun 11 15:26:46 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, actually, read 10-100 lines before, I mentioned it the first time XP
Jun 11 15:26:52 <DocScrutinizer> the windows flasher is constantly giving problems
Jun 11 15:26:52 <xDaReaperx> oh man , why wont the windows flasher work ?
Jun 11 15:27:00 <MohammadAG51> it would
Jun 11 15:27:01 <xDaReaperx> damn , now i'm tensed
Jun 11 15:27:07 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: that's what I meant
Jun 11 15:27:16 <DocScrutinizer> it didn't help the first time
Jun 11 15:27:45 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: occasionally win-flasher works as well
Jun 11 15:27:54 <DocScrutinizer> just has more issues than linux
Jun 11 15:28:06 <xDaReaperx> so now since i dont have linux i should use Windows
Jun 11 15:28:08 <DocScrutinizer> so if you got the choice
Jun 11 15:28:09 <xDaReaperx> :(
Jun 11 15:28:17 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Jun 11 15:29:44 <xDaReaperx> what are the chances that something will go wrong ?
Jun 11 15:29:46 <crashanddie> BCMM: install build-essential from the SDK repo and you're good to compile on-device.
Jun 11 15:29:52 <crashanddie> xDaReaperx: 18.2%
Jun 11 15:30:09 <DocScrutinizer> today's friday, so 18.4
Jun 11 15:30:17 <BCMM> crashanddie: i have been told that enabling the sdk repo will make the n900 eat my pets
Jun 11 15:30:39 <crashanddie> BCMM: ok, then no compilation for you.
Jun 11 15:31:17 <BCMM> crashanddie: (or that there was some kind of issue to be careful of)
Jun 11 15:31:31 <crashanddie> just add the repo, apt-get build-essential, remove repo
Jun 11 15:31:37 <DocScrutinizer> ~hail t-tan for the userfriendly "power kernel" :-S
Jun 11 15:31:38 * infobot bows down to t-tan for the userfriendly "power kernel" :-S and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"
Jun 11 15:31:40 <crashanddie> don't run updates, don't apt-get upgrade, you'll be fine.
Jun 11 15:31:50 <th3hate> is petola widget working for anyone?
Jun 11 15:32:32 <SpeedEvil> http://bellard.org/otcc/
Jun 11 15:32:38 * SpeedEvil bows down, and is not worthy.
Jun 11 15:32:40 <SpeedEvil> Take that GCC!
Jun 11 15:33:00 <SpeedEvil> A compiler in 2048 bytes of c.
Jun 11 15:33:11 <DocScrutinizer> though ""some app installed this Kernel power for users"" also sounds a little... err, searching for excuse
Jun 11 15:33:30 <xDaReaperx> yeah thats the app that made my phone to die now
Jun 11 15:33:42 <xDaReaperx> i'm really tensed , i dunno how safe flashing is
Jun 11 15:33:48 <xDaReaperx> what if something goes wrong
Jun 11 15:33:48 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: good god, that is terrible
Jun 11 15:33:59 <DocScrutinizer> flashing is safe
Jun 11 15:34:03 <BCMM> in a wonderful sort of way
Jun 11 15:34:24 <MohammadAG51> <xDaReaperx> what if something goes wrong
Jun 11 15:34:28 <MohammadAG51> rereflash
Jun 11 15:34:44 <DocScrutinizer> try harder - fail better :-P
Jun 11 15:36:02 <xDaReaperx> omg this .bin file is 179 MB
Jun 11 15:36:07 <xDaReaperx> i have to download that too ?
Jun 11 15:38:00 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: fsckng awsome
Jun 11 15:38:35 <DocScrutinizer> YES
Jun 11 15:38:36 * achipa sees that maemo.org/news is still dead. Is it just hiding or is it going to play dead all weekend ?
Jun 11 15:39:34 <Tachikoma> yikes
Jun 11 15:39:56 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: feel happy you've not killed your phone by installing random garbage without reading the instructions
Jun 11 15:40:26 <xDaReaperx> oh
Jun 11 15:40:44 <Tachikoma> i just saw that i received a mail from nokia on 3.6.2010 telling me that there is ovi store 1.6 now and that it's awsome and explain tomns of features ... Why do they send me that - i should be marekd as n900 owner in their database ...
Jun 11 15:41:06 <xDaReaperx> so all i need is the Nokia USB cable , The Maemo 3.5 flasher software and the .bin file , to reflash
Jun 11 15:41:16 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Jun 11 15:41:19 * DocScrutinizer sighs
Jun 11 15:42:11 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: and a lot more of patience and coolness as the real dl load comes *after* you've flashed the rootfs, on restoring your backup
Jun 11 15:42:56 <xDaReaperx> oh so there's more to download later ? oh man
Jun 11 15:43:11 <xDaReaperx> on the documentation it says : Make sure that the device battery is fully charged before doing any sort of flashing operation because flashing fails if the battery runs out of power during the image flashing operation, and the device may not be able to charge an empty battery after a failure in flashing.
Jun 11 15:43:24 <xDaReaperx> but i cant charge as i told u it keeps looping
Jun 11 15:43:29 <Tachikoma> yes, that is a big issue
Jun 11 15:43:40 <DocScrutinizer> you need to reinstall all the friggin apps you had. and take care you don't install power kernel during that restore session :-P
Jun 11 15:43:51 <xDaReaperx> oh i dont care of the apps
Jun 11 15:43:57 <xDaReaperx> i need the mobile running back , i'm so tensed
Jun 11 15:44:25 <Tachikoma> i actually bough an external battery charger for mobile phone batteries to never face the battery dead/flash scenario
Jun 11 15:44:52 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: *I* told ya [2010-06-11 17:22:05] <DocScrutinizer> then I suggest you don't waste battery on useless effort to charge, but start flashing right away
Jun 11 15:45:00 <Tachikoma> xDaReaperx: if you know anothe n900 owner, charge your batteryu full in his n900 before flashing
Jun 11 15:45:17 <xDaReaperx> well i dont
Jun 11 15:45:36 <Tachikoma> and it does not have to be 100% full, it must just not become empty WHILE flashing
Jun 11 15:45:48 <xDaReaperx> no its not empty its 43 %
Jun 11 15:45:49 <xDaReaperx> or so
Jun 11 15:45:55 <xDaReaperx> i think
Jun 11 15:46:07 <DocScrutinizer> and gets less while you're arguing here
Jun 11 15:46:10 <Tachikoma> xDaReaperx: that should be enough, flashing takes not longer than 5 minutes from my experience
Jun 11 15:46:22 <xDaReaperx> oh thank God
Jun 11 15:46:40 <DocScrutinizer> actually it takes ~30s
Jun 11 15:46:45 <Tachikoma> xDaReaperx: but TAKE OUT THE BATTERY NOW. And only put it back in the moment you will flash
Jun 11 15:46:56 <xDaReaperx> yeah i did that ^
Jun 11 15:46:57 <Tachikoma> DocScrutinizer: yeah, I was flashing emmc as well
Jun 11 15:47:14 <Tachikoma> another way to get a full battery is to go to a nokia shop
Jun 11 15:47:19 <Tachikoma> just in case
Jun 11 15:47:39 <DocScrutinizer> *yaaaaawwn*
Jun 11 15:47:50 <Tachikoma> http://www.123handydiscount.de/2-3-12-0-0-1080/nokia-batterycharger-dt-14-handy-bestellen.html?ref=true
Jun 11 15:47:56 <Tachikoma> this is my "backup :)
Jun 11 15:48:02 <Tachikoma> i got it for 7 euro
Jun 11 15:48:29 <Tachikoma> for n800 actually, had to saw of one end so n800 battery di fix, but charged the battery as expected
Jun 11 15:48:31 <xDaReaperx> DocScrutinizer : what kind of menu will be there when i run the flasher ?
Jun 11 15:48:39 <DocScrutinizer> none
Jun 11 15:48:41 <xDaReaperx> you told me about some Fiasco img or something
Jun 11 15:49:19 <DocScrutinizer> ~tell xDaReaperx about flashing
Jun 11 15:49:31 <DocScrutinizer> ~tell xDaReaperx "read that!"
Jun 11 15:49:40 <xDaReaperx> okay
Jun 11 15:53:47 <xDaReaperx> so once the mobile starts flashing i can plug the charger right
Jun 11 15:54:00 <xDaReaperx> says in the documentation : You can plug the device back into power once it starts flashing).
Jun 11 15:59:18 * GAN900 is evil.
Jun 11 16:10:31 <SpeedEvil> http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1276271582184.jpg
Jun 11 16:17:27 <Ian--> hi in the virtual keyboard since pr1.2 has the backspace button been removed?
Jun 11 16:17:58 <jacekowski>     i never had any problems with virtual keyboard
Jun 11 16:18:18 <jacekowski> maybe because i don't use it
Jun 11 16:19:48 <SpeedEvil> backspace is under ?
Jun 11 16:24:45 <trumee> guys, i used tcpdump to create a dump of the network for maemo sip bug. How do i extract just the sip/rtp stream for bugzilla. i want to remove all the sensitive info before uploading it to bugzilla
Jun 11 16:25:09 <SpeedEvil> trumee: I recommend tcpick perhaps
Jun 11 16:25:14 <trumee> how can i extract using wireshark
Jun 11 16:25:25 <trumee> SpeedEvil: ok, i will install tcpick then
Jun 11 16:25:27 <SpeedEvil> http://tcpick.sourceforge.net/
Jun 11 16:25:29 <SpeedEvil> dunno
Jun 11 16:25:44 <SpeedEvil> I've used tcpick for that in the past, and it's worked well
Jun 11 16:26:02 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure about tools that will parse the tcpdump capture
Jun 11 16:26:29 <DocScrutinizer> wireshark has arbitrary filtering, and afaik a convenient way to print out and/or save
Jun 11 16:27:07 <DocScrutinizer> nobody will care about a pcap file on tracker anyway, I guess
Jun 11 16:27:25 <svanheulen> Hello!
Jun 11 16:28:09 <DocScrutinizer> and you open pcap simply in wireshark I guess
Jun 11 16:28:09 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: i cant take a chance of that. How can i extract sip/rtp streams for uploading to bugzilla?
Jun 11 16:28:23 <trumee> SpeedEvil: unfortunately i dont have tcpick on my gentoo system
Jun 11 16:28:52 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: yes, i can open it but what do i save from wireshark:
Jun 11 16:29:42 <DocScrutinizer> the info you want to share on your track ticket. Nobody will do that filtering and data dissect for you
Jun 11 16:29:46 <LiraNuna> what the hell @ chromium?
Jun 11 16:29:58 <LiraNuna> are the Maemo repositories became Apple's ass store?
Jun 11 16:30:06 <LiraNuna> s/are/did/
Jun 11 16:30:06 <infobot> LiraNuna meant: did the Maemo repositories became Apple's ass store?
Jun 11 16:30:20 <SpeedEvil> LiraNuna: REgrettably lawyers do not think like normal people.
Jun 11 16:30:28 <MohammadAG51> LiraNuna, not really, 'we' just don't want trouble
Jun 11 16:30:43 <SpeedEvil> And - given the opinion of nokias lawyers that it should come down - and the domains hosting - it was pretty obvious what'd happen
Jun 11 16:30:52 <MohammadAG51> feel free to create your own repo and host it
Jun 11 16:31:06 <svanheulen> yeah i was confused about the chromium thing too... i thought it used BSD license?
Jun 11 16:31:16 <SpeedEvil> svanheulen: It's a patent issue
Jun 11 16:31:18 <microlith> svanheulen: software licenses don't get you around software patents
Jun 11 16:31:23 <MohammadAG51> some IL company sued google
Jun 11 16:31:27 <SpeedEvil> svanheulen: A company claims it infringes a patent.
Jun 11 16:31:41 <SpeedEvil> svanheulen: The patented - allegedly - stuff got pulled - and it reuploaded.
Jun 11 16:31:47 <svanheulen> oh god, software patents, my fav ...
Jun 11 16:31:51 <SpeedEvil> But the lawyers were still unhappy taking the risk
Jun 11 16:32:03 <MohammadAG51> i'm not really sure how patens are infringed in open source SW
Jun 11 16:32:14 <microlith> MohammadAG51: everything does, probably
Jun 11 16:32:18 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG51: The same way they are in regular SW.
Jun 11 16:32:52 <MohammadAG51> SpeedEvil, but it's open source
Jun 11 16:33:26 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG51: Because it's open-source doesn't mean it cannot infringe patents.
Jun 11 16:33:50 <svanheulen> MohammadAG51: yeah, but they're still taking away business of the patent hold i guess
Jun 11 16:34:00 <svanheulen> *holder
Jun 11 16:34:05 <SpeedEvil> If open source infringes patents - there may be no direct financial remedy against the author - but the patent holder can still insist it's removed.
Jun 11 16:34:13 <SpeedEvil> And in some countries this has legal force.
Jun 11 16:34:34 <microlith> iirc, there's a patent less than 10 years old that covers linked lists
Jun 11 16:35:01 <LiraNuna> aren't software patents cute
Jun 11 16:35:24 <LiraNuna> I know one that covers how to do a fast 'abs' in 3 instructions
Jun 11 16:36:05 <svanheulen> LiraNuna: if by 'cute' you mean retarded, yes
Jun 11 16:36:11 <SpeedEvil> My pet hate.
Jun 11 16:36:39 <SpeedEvil> The kernel had - back in 2.0.20 times or so - a (out-of-tree) module - 'mergemem'
Jun 11 16:37:07 <LiraNuna> svanheulen, sarcasm
Jun 11 16:37:20 <SpeedEvil> This hashed all memory, and found pages with identical hashes, and merged them so that they were using the same page of RAM - protected them - so they would get split again on write.
Jun 11 16:37:39 <SpeedEvil> Fast forward to ~2006 or so, and vmware gets a patent on exactly this.
Jun 11 16:37:49 <microlith> SpeedEvil: err, isn't that exactly what KSM does?
Jun 11 16:38:12 <SpeedEvil> In ~2008 - KSM explicitly avoided this obvious technique in order to do the same thing.
Jun 11 16:38:18 <SpeedEvil> sort-of, not quite.
Jun 11 16:38:19 <microlith> ahh
Jun 11 16:38:24 <SpeedEvil> mergemem was designed to do _all_ memory.
Jun 11 16:38:54 <SpeedEvil> Also, I note the n900 has a hashing engine in the CPU.
Jun 11 16:39:16 <svanheulen> SpeedEvil: to be fair, you can't expect the people approving patents to know everthing that ever existed
Jun 11 16:39:30 <SpeedEvil> Sure.
Jun 11 16:39:47 <LiraNuna> hence why patents are retarded
Jun 11 16:40:06 <SpeedEvil> But 'hey - look at this code from 2002' should be a simple straight-forward free excersize to get the patent cancelled.
Jun 11 16:40:19 <SpeedEvil> Not the risk of expensive court action that may drag on for years.
Jun 11 16:40:54 <zaheerm-lp> what is funny is that meego distributes chromium
Jun 11 16:41:06 <LiraNuna> the patent council is made of retards - you really expects them to know better?
Jun 11 16:41:23 <svanheulen> Well yeah, I don't see why they can't just allow people to sumbit prior art to get patent invalidated before they cause court cases
Jun 11 16:41:46 <microlith> zaheerm-lp: I suppose Intel is playing 800lb gorilla
Jun 11 16:46:29 <LiraNuna> http://lolpics.se/pics/3982.jpg
Jun 11 16:46:30 <LiraNuna> er
Jun 11 16:46:32 <LiraNuna> wrong window
Jun 11 16:57:15 <MohammadAG51> alterego, you could add a terminal option to show what song your listening to
Jun 11 16:57:20 <MohammadAG51> kinda like a backend
Jun 11 16:57:49 <MohammadAG51> it would export the same %s and %t
Jun 11 16:58:54 <kwtm> Hi! Need advice: what is MeeGo, and if I have Maemo5 on my new N900, will I be able to use it?  Sounds like the brand new Maemo5 is already obsolete.
Jun 11 16:59:15 <kwtm> I just bought my N900, can still return it for refund if I should wait a month or two before getting a MeeGo tablet/phone.
Jun 11 16:59:46 <Stskeeps> noone knows when the first meego device is coming out and your n900 isn't breaking of that reason :P
Jun 11 17:00:37 <RST38h> actually, 4Q2010 for Harmattan device
Jun 11 17:00:41 <RST38h> which is marketed as a meego
Jun 11 17:01:19 <Robot101> despite obviously not being... :P
Jun 11 17:02:27 <kwtm> Stskeeps: Would it be reasonable to expect that I can load MeeGo onto my N900?
Jun 11 17:02:41 <microlith> kwtm: entirely
Jun 11 17:02:49 <MohammadAG51> heh, you're asking the guy who's porting it :P
Jun 11 17:02:53 <kwtm> I don't want to have a shorter useful life for my tabletphone software because I've come in at the end of Maemo, as opposed to (say) someone with a N810 who has had a longer time to enjoy/use Maemo before it became obsolete.
Jun 11 17:02:55 <microlith> you can run it now (sans gui
Jun 11 17:03:00 <RST38h> kwtm: Nokia will not officially support your meego installation though
Jun 11 17:03:28 <Stskeeps> what RST38h said.. you can't call nokia care about it and it may possibly not come with shiny nokia bits
Jun 11 17:03:46 <MohammadAG51> ovi? :)
Jun 11 17:03:49 <RST38h> i.e. it will not have GSM, GPS, and power saving
Jun 11 17:03:52 <Stskeeps> errmm.
Jun 11 17:03:53 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 11 17:03:56 <Stskeeps> that's not true
Jun 11 17:04:03 <MohammadAG51> RST38h, err...
Jun 11 17:04:05 <Stskeeps> phone stack is getting opened, gps we haven't touched yet
Jun 11 17:04:12 <Stskeeps> power saving is just bullshit to say we're not getting :P
Jun 11 17:04:14 <kwtm> Thank you, all.  Final question: has Nokia announced any specific device which will run MeeGo?  (I know no one has announced when it will come out.)  If it's specific, may be worthwhile waiting; else I'll keep my N900.  Have to refund within 4 days else no refund.
Jun 11 17:04:17 <xDaReaperx> ugh the .bin file for flashing the phone is taking lots of time to download
Jun 11 17:04:21 <Stskeeps> kwtm: no, no announcements.
Jun 11 17:04:43 <xDaReaperx> i still dont understand which app made my phone to not boot any more
Jun 11 17:04:46 <MohammadAG51> knowing nokia, if they announce it tomorrow, expect it next december
Jun 11 17:05:12 <kwtm> Thanks.  Will probably keep my N900, keep observing MeeGo.  (I bought a Sharp Zaurus, too, just before it went obsolete --lack of software ecosystem.)
Jun 11 17:05:45 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: you installed power kernel, no?
Jun 11 17:06:04 <xDaReaperx> no some app installed it for me
Jun 11 17:06:23 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: and then you fsckd it up by not following the insructions how to deinstall it
Jun 11 17:06:27 <xDaReaperx> it shows the deinstall power kernel , i tried to but it said error on reinstalling nokia kernal
Jun 11 17:06:41 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: there is no app that installs power kernel
Jun 11 17:06:42 <Stskeeps> kwtm: long story short. Nokia is funding a rather big team to maintain MeeGo (not Harmattan) on N900. N900 is the reference device for ARM platforms in MeeGo and hence all packages in MeeGo should build against this (with some exceptions).
Jun 11 17:06:57 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, I think kismet does
Jun 11 17:06:59 <xDaReaperx> hmm but i dont remember intalling that power kernel app
Jun 11 17:07:00 <MohammadAG51> w/e that is
Jun 11 17:07:05 <xDaReaperx> ya i installed kismet
Jun 11 17:07:07 <Stskeeps> kwtm: nokia also provides the ability for some closed source components to be added, either in a premade image or downloadable with a n900 IMEI
Jun 11 17:07:17 <DocScrutinizer> omfg
Jun 11 17:07:22 <MohammadAG51> xDaReaperx, reflash the kernel
Jun 11 17:07:31 <kwtm> Stskeeps: Ah, I see.  So there *is* substantial support from Nokia for N900 MeeGo, just not officially supporting MY installation of MeeGo so I can't go sue them or something.
Jun 11 17:07:34 <xDaReaperx> yeah i'm going to do it now , i'm still downloading the .bin file
Jun 11 17:07:37 <w00t_> GAN900: I think that it's not entirely correct to say they do everything possible to fail, though
Jun 11 17:07:39 <xDaReaperx> slow connection here
Jun 11 17:07:42 <Stskeeps> kwtm: bingo.
Jun 11 17:07:48 <DocScrutinizer> can we please nuke kismet then?
Jun 11 17:07:58 <w00t_> GAN900: I mean, if *that* was true, then they'd not have bothered investing effort into taking the N900 further at all
Jun 11 17:08:09 <Stskeeps> kwtm: the key term is productization.
Jun 11 17:08:14 <MohammadAG51> infobot, nuke kismet
Jun 11 17:08:36 <kwtm> Sounds like I picked the right phone to buy, then.  My colleagues were just talking the other day about how the iPhone 4 will be So Much Better when it comes out, and I asked, "Does it have multitasking yet?"
Jun 11 17:08:41 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at kismet ... B☢☢M!
Jun 11 17:08:50 <Stskeeps> kwtm: meego.com to read more about meego.
Jun 11 17:09:24 <CosmoHill> kwtm: i still think the iphone is the phone of tomorrow today
Jun 11 17:09:31 <CosmoHill> no wait
Jun 11 17:09:37 <CosmoHill> the phone of yesterday today
Jun 11 17:09:37 <Stskeeps> when did CosmoHill get in here?
Jun 11 17:09:37 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 11 17:09:44 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: fail, the maintainer wasn't near enough to ground zero
Jun 11 17:10:02 <GAN900> w00t_, yeah, hyperbole.
Jun 11 17:10:06 <CosmoHill> Stskeeps: 2 mins ago, I shuck in behind w00t_
Jun 11 17:10:17 <GAN900> w00t_, that was just cathartic. :P
Jun 11 17:10:24 * MohammadAG51 waits for the maintainer to show up @ ground 0
Jun 11 17:10:35 <kwtm> CosmoHill: Different people have different needs.  I feel uneasy with the locked-down nature of the iPhone (starting with "You *must* use AT&T as your provider!").
Jun 11 17:10:37 <xDaReaperx> so that app is kind of like a malware ?
Jun 11 17:10:54 <MohammadAG51> not really
Jun 11 17:10:55 <CosmoHill> kwtm: in the UK you have a choice of 3 or 4
Jun 11 17:11:00 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, just hates t-tan
Jun 11 17:11:02 <MohammadAG51> :P
Jun 11 17:11:07 <xDaReaperx> oh
Jun 11 17:11:17 <MohammadAG51> lol jk xP
Jun 11 17:11:18 <Stskeeps> i think the key term about the cutting off official upgrades is that the community is acting like the wife that always comes back to the husband who beats her
Jun 11 17:11:23 <w00t_> Stskeeps: i made the mistake of mentioning #maemo on #meego :-P
Jun 11 17:11:35 <GAN900> w00t_, it just REALLY frustrates me that they'll let the N900 slip away by not providing official support.
Jun 11 17:11:36 <kwtm> CosmoHill: Also no removable battery, no removable storage card.  I need to be able to travel to Asia (I do it at least once a year) and pop in a local SIM card and be ready to go.
Jun 11 17:11:58 <kwtm> GAN900: It feels like KDE3 and KDE4 all over again. :P
Jun 11 17:12:00 <w00t_> GAN900: I'm not happy about the decision, admittedly, but I'll wait and see how the situation ends up like
Jun 11 17:12:01 <GAN900> Stskeeps, well, because as much as Nokia sucks there's nobody better.
Jun 11 17:12:12 <MohammadAG51> you know why I hate the iPhone?
Jun 11 17:12:12 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: that app is kind of incredibly bad maintained, when it leaves you with a broken device. Evidentally, no?
Jun 11 17:12:13 <GAN900> I'd LOVE to be able to take my money elsewhere
Jun 11 17:12:15 <GAN900> But where?
Jun 11 17:12:26 <MohammadAG51> the 2G was soooo underpowered, yet it succeeded
Jun 11 17:12:34 <MohammadAG51> iPhone 2G that is
Jun 11 17:12:41 <Stskeeps> GAN900: i'm more talking about they're not actively trying to make the situation better. mostly chatting about the beating but that's about it.
Jun 11 17:12:54 <xDaReaperx> DocScrutinizer : oh okay , next time i better think before i install anthing
Jun 11 17:12:59 <Ikarus> hmz, *ponder*
Jun 11 17:13:08 <Ikarus> I am hacking on getting BT PAN mode working
Jun 11 17:13:09 <microlith> MohammadAG51: goes to show what interface design and hype gets you
Jun 11 17:13:15 <GAN900> Stskeeps, making the situation better involves dropping Nokia like a rock and moving to another state. :)
Jun 11 17:13:24 <Ikarus> but I am doubting between working up a userland NAT daemon
Jun 11 17:13:28 <GAN900> Stskeeps, so the analogy doesn't quite work. :P
Jun 11 17:13:32 <Ikarus> or requiring a custom kernel
Jun 11 17:14:00 <Stskeeps> GAN900: or trying to work out a solution :P
Jun 11 17:14:27 <GAN900> Stskeeps, when a relationship is abusive, there is no solution. :)
Jun 11 17:14:29 <DocScrutinizer> Ikarus: I thought there already is some NAT alike shit used for similar purpose?
Jun 11 17:14:29 <t-tan> MohammadAG51: ??
Jun 11 17:14:41 <MohammadAG51> Nothing
Jun 11 17:14:42 <CosmoHill> wouldn't dropping nokia be like dumping your girlfriend after one argument?
Jun 11 17:14:51 <GAN900> CosmoHill, no.
Jun 11 17:14:54 <Ikarus> DocScrutinizer: Wifi hotspot uses a custom kernel
Jun 11 17:15:01 <GAN900> CosmoHill, this is the beaten wife analogy.
Jun 11 17:15:01 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Jun 11 17:15:03 <Ikarus> DocScrutinizer: haven't found anything else yet
Jun 11 17:15:09 <CosmoHill> ah okay
Jun 11 17:15:17 <Ikarus> and I have a userland NAT daemon in the rough
Jun 11 17:15:25 <GAN900> One argument would've been dropping them in 2006 after the 770.
Jun 11 17:15:48 <Ikarus> (it's pretty optimistic and all that, but for BT PAN with a couple of laptops should be fine)
Jun 11 17:15:53 <Stskeeps> i wonder how the mobile landscape would have looked if maemo 1.0 was like meego 1.0.
Jun 11 17:16:01 <DocScrutinizer> Ikarus: much better than yet another custom kernel
Jun 11 17:16:13 <w00t_> Stskeeps: bit too early to say, I still think
Jun 11 17:16:21 <Ikarus> DocScrutinizer: well, BT PAN can use the same kernel as wifi hotspot
Jun 11 17:16:27 <Ikarus> DocScrutinizer: it only needs the NAT
Jun 11 17:16:52 * DocScrutinizer sighs
Jun 11 17:16:55 <Ikarus> (BT DUN works for me, but I can't have both my phone and my laptop online that way)
Jun 11 17:17:05 <aziwoqpd> and bridging, to connect pan1 with the bnep* interfaces
Jun 11 17:17:10 <DocScrutinizer> why-owhy do we need custom kernels for every shit?
Jun 11 17:17:22 <kwtm> I like having the clout of Intel Moblin joined with Nokia, but since Microsoft may scramble to create a competitor (see IE7 vs. Firefox), MeeGo may or may not go far, so I'll stick with the bird in hand (Maemo) rather than two in bush (MeeGo).
Jun 11 17:17:41 <Ikarus> DocScrutinizer: well, with NAT, the N900 kernel lacks low level hooks for it
Jun 11 17:17:52 <Stskeeps> kwtm: they're trying with windows phone 7 or something..
Jun 11 17:17:54 <Ikarus> certain parts of iptables/netfilter need to be compiled in
Jun 11 17:18:06 <DocScrutinizer> Ikarus: hmm, seems the stock kernel is real crap
Jun 11 17:18:12 <t-tan> xDaReaperx: you installed kismet from devel?
Jun 11 17:18:21 <SpeedEvil> Windows 7 is really based around the 2.0.33 kernel.
Jun 11 17:18:22 <xDaReaperx> i think yes
Jun 11 17:18:27 <SpeedEvil> It's got some way to go to catch up.
Jun 11 17:18:34 <Ikarus> DocScrutinizer: it's erm, barebones
Jun 11 17:18:43 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Jun 11 17:18:52 <microlith> kwtm: what will microsoft do, release windows phone 7 in all its deliberately crippled glory?
Jun 11 17:18:59 <kwtm> SpeedEvil: Sorry, what??  Did you just name a Linux kernel, or you're talking about the Windows kernel?
Jun 11 17:19:05 <t-tan> xDaReaperx: don't blame anyone if you use -devel
Jun 11 17:19:09 * SpeedEvil wasn't being very serious.
Jun 11 17:19:21 <Ikarus> DocScrutinizer: and modifying netfilter to be fully module insertable is significantly more scary then a userland NAT daemon :)
Jun 11 17:19:24 <w00t_> I believe SpeedEvil was being facetious
Jun 11 17:19:25 <kwtm> microlith: <laugh> knowing MS, they'll say: "Windows 8 for Phones!  (requires DVD burner in your smartphone)"
Jun 11 17:19:36 <xDaReaperx> well i'm not blaming any one yet , i just want my phone back up
Jun 11 17:19:54 <xDaReaperx> should i enable R&D mode during Flashing ?
Jun 11 17:19:59 * kwtm was being gullible. :P
Jun 11 17:20:02 <GAN900> Stskeeps, can you imagine?
Jun 11 17:20:03 <Ikarus> xDaReaperx: NO
Jun 11 17:20:07 <Stskeeps> GAN900: imagine what?
Jun 11 17:20:07 <xDaReaperx> ok
Jun 11 17:20:09 <GAN900> Picture where the iPhone is now
Jun 11 17:20:09 <t-tan> xDaReaperx: on the wiki page you can read how to deinstall it in 1min
Jun 11 17:20:21 <GAN900> Maemo 1 being like MeeGo
Jun 11 17:20:32 <GAN900> But on a much wider range of devices and open
Jun 11 17:20:40 <Stskeeps> and earlier than android..
Jun 11 17:20:48 <kwtm> Where *is* the iPhone, anyway?  Is the new iPhone 4 still tied to AT&T?  Does it have removable storage (e.g. microSD) yet?
Jun 11 17:20:56 <xDaReaperx> well i dunno about de install , i'm just trying to reinstall using the flasher
Jun 11 17:21:07 <Stskeeps> basically my point was about, what if maemo 1.0 had been fully open source.
Jun 11 17:21:19 <microlith> kwtm: yet it is still tied, no support for SD cards.
Jun 11 17:21:25 <xDaReaperx> i'm reading the updating the firmware wiki and reflashing it
Jun 11 17:21:28 <kwtm> I normally don't care about the iPhone but I have to defend the N900 against these iPhone enthusiasts.
Jun 11 17:21:33 <Ikarus> Stskeeps: differentiation, it wouldn't have been deemed sellable by Nokia commercial
Jun 11 17:22:14 <t-tan> kwtm: but Apple has just invented Multitasking and videochat! it's so exciting ;->
Jun 11 17:23:20 <kwtm> t-tan: Yeah, and my colleague said: "Now it has FOLDERS!  Now I can put things into CATEGORIES!" lol
Jun 11 17:23:21 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Imagine if Maemo 1.0 was open source and came from anyone-but-Nokia (e.g. Apple or Google)
Jun 11 17:23:30 <GAN900> w00t_, also, I'm not so much negative about what I see now, as much as all my optimism has been beaten out.
Jun 11 17:23:55 <GAN900> (of me)
Jun 11 17:24:09 <Mece> helloo-o
Jun 11 17:24:45 <w00t_> GAN900: that's a shame, really
Jun 11 17:24:45 <Jaffa> kwtm: You need some damned awesome app to put N900 apps into categories :)
Jun 11 17:25:03 <Mece> haa
Jun 11 17:25:15 <GAN900> w00t_, yeah, well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens
Jun 11 17:25:21 <Jaffa> w00t_: Don't worry, it'll happen to you too
Jun 11 17:25:21 <Mece> oh noes not another iPhone discussion
Jun 11 17:25:27 <GAN900> I just wish I actually had the drive to try to make it better.
Jun 11 17:25:38 <kwtm> Jaffa: Yeah, I had to blow $0.00 on this Catorize app to do that. :)
Jun 11 17:25:51 <GAN900> What a ripoff
Jun 11 17:25:55 <Ikarus> kwtm: well, I don't like how Catorize work
Jun 11 17:25:57 <w00t_> Jaffa: I'm not that easy to break.. ask Stskeeps, he knows my masochistic tendancies
Jun 11 17:26:00 <Ikarus> otoh, I am planning to rip it off :)
Jun 11 17:26:28 <w00t_> GAN900: well, you still do obviously, because you're still doing things like writing that, and talking about it here, you still *do* care
Jun 11 17:26:31 <Mece> categories are confusing.
Jun 11 17:26:31 <kwtm> Ikarus: I don't either, but it's better than before.
Jun 11 17:26:56 <Ikarus> I want custom catagories and be able to throw them into the groups I need
Jun 11 17:26:56 <kwtm> Ikarus: Please do!  I want to set categories of my own choosing, not the categories that were assigned previously.
Jun 11 17:27:03 <Ikarus> exactly :)
Jun 11 17:27:17 <Jaffa> GAN900:  :-p
Jun 11 17:27:17 <Jaffa> Ikar	What's re your idas?
Jun 11 17:27:51 <GAN900> Jaffa, I installed the stupid thing and it messed up my application menu!
Jun 11 17:28:42 <Jaffa> Ikarus/kwtm: You don't have to fork - I'mm happy to include that in Catorise. The only things neede are icons and a (Qt?) editor
Jun 11 17:28:42 <GAN900> w00t_, I do care, but I don't have the energy to try seriously to work my way in from the mailroom in MeeGo and make constructive things happen
Jun 11 17:28:52 <DocScrutinizer> damn, is taskswitcher known to be a cpu hog? my device was almost too hot to do that call, after it sat there idling in taskswitcher for some hours (microb started as one of the running tasks, fwiw)
Jun 11 17:28:57 <GAN900> Also harder because there isn't much demand for my sort of talents over there.
Jun 11 17:29:17 <w00t_> GAN900: I was about to say - they're in a better starting position.. :)
Jun 11 17:29:49 <w00t_> I think (hope?) the future will be a lot clearer once the handset ux is out in the open
Jun 11 17:29:51 <Ikarus> Jaffa: well, I really want the normal app UI, but with custom folders so I can dump stuff like games and utilities out of the main screen, so I am not sure how close that fits with Catorise
Jun 11 17:30:04 <kwtm> If I go through all of maemo.org/downloads, have I exhausted all the (stable-enough-for-daily-use) maemo apps?  Or are there other "app catalogs" that I can browse through for more apps?
Jun 11 17:30:13 <DocScrutinizer> Ikarus: +100 for catorize++
Jun 11 17:30:17 <Jaffa> Ikarus: You want MyMenu. Apparently.
Jun 11 17:30:23 <GAN900> Always with the hope and the future and the RSN. . . .
Jun 11 17:30:25 <Stskeeps> GAN900: where are you fighting for any area of contribution in meego atm? out of curiousity
Jun 11 17:30:32 <GAN900> "But I want it now!"
Jun 11 17:30:39 <GAN900> Stskeeps, nowhere currently.
Jun 11 17:30:51 <Jaffa> kwtm: That's everything. You can get stuck into the QA queue if you want to help get more apps in there.
Jun 11 17:30:52 <Ikarus> Jaffa: that one didn't even work for me
Jun 11 17:31:08 <GAN900> Stskeeps, helped a bit with the bz startup because Quim or somebody threw my name in there and with the forums.
Jun 11 17:31:14 <Stskeeps> bz?
Jun 11 17:31:18 <Stskeeps> ah, bugzilla
Jun 11 17:31:20 <GAN900> bugzilla
Jun 11 17:31:36 <GAN900> So much has shifted into paid hands, though.
Jun 11 17:31:38 <Jaffa> Ikarus: It's abandonware :-/
Jun 11 17:31:53 <GAN900> And unless it's code, I dunno where to start trying to push.
Jun 11 17:32:04 <GAN900> (another problem with MeeGo losing enthusiasm)
Jun 11 17:32:05 <kwtm> Jaffa: Okay, time to break out the PyQT stuff so I can get some simple scripts/programs on my N900.  I need more customization.  Thx.
Jun 11 17:32:20 <Ikarus> Jaffa: anyway, I might just for Catorise to make a sample, then we can see how/what we want to merge in
Jun 11 17:32:55 <kwtm> I still use Catorize.  I figure that, if I am not in the mood to use it, I just choose the category "All" and it goes back to having all the apps in one place.
Jun 11 17:33:20 <kwtm> By "still" use Catorize I mean that I loaded it 2 days ago. :P
Jun 11 17:33:32 <Jaffa> Ikarus/kwtm: It'd be worth sharing the GUI editor, perhaps?
Jun 11 17:34:14 <Mece> hey you who care about which parts are open, can you tell me which parts of media player is open on N900?
Jun 11 17:34:18 <GAN900> Stskeeps, I find it unfortunate that there hasn't been a more concerted effort to try to engage Maemo contributors.
Jun 11 17:34:24 <SpeedEvil> gstreamer partially, ofr example
Jun 11 17:34:26 <DocScrutinizer> Ikarus: I got a personal howto on tweaking catorise conf files some months ago. It was a pain so I gave up on it. but probably you could add the configure feature without even touching catorise code
Jun 11 17:34:31 <SpeedEvil> ~closed
Jun 11 17:34:32 <GAN900> But everything just sort of defaulted to Moblin
Jun 11 17:34:33 <infobot> it has been said that closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages
Jun 11 17:34:34 <Jaffa> Ikarus: or, if nothing else the editor can have a "reset" option which lets you start from scratch. Leave the grunt work to /opt/catorise/catorise and the editor plays with /opt/catorise/menu file
Jun 11 17:34:49 <kwtm> Jaffa: what do you mean?  You speak as if I'm a programmer --don't scare me.  I left the software industry 12 years ago and now only know how to do Python (or C programs if they're less than 20 lines long).
Jun 11 17:34:55 <GAN900> So you can talk about starting fresh with a new community and establishing merit blah blah blah
Jun 11 17:35:05 <GAN900> But the Moblin folks got a big boost up
Jun 11 17:35:17 <GAN900> Which is discouraging for everybody who's not them.
Jun 11 17:35:31 <Jaffa> kwtm: Just brainstorming - same UI, different engines
Jun 11 17:35:44 <Ikarus> Jaffa: hmhm, we'll see
Jun 11 17:35:57 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: ack
Jun 11 17:36:02 <Stskeeps> GAN900: well, that was the hope maemo community would help with, i would think - i mean, not many people have stood out in this initial phase
Jun 11 17:36:03 <Mece> speedevil, i was thinking about playlist generation/sorting is an open part.
Jun 11 17:36:15 <kwtm> I see.  I like DocScrutinizer's idea of making it easy to configure Catorize, though.
Jun 11 17:36:20 <Mece> s/about/if/
Jun 11 17:36:21 <infobot> Mece meant: speedevil, i was thinking if playlist generation/sorting is an open part.
Jun 11 17:36:26 <Stskeeps> and the internal wars of maemo.org haven't helped either, i think
Jun 11 17:36:32 <GAN900> Mmm
Jun 11 17:36:36 <xDaReaperx> flashing my n900 now
Jun 11 17:36:49 <GAN900> But why hasn't anybody stood out?
Jun 11 17:36:58 <xDaReaperx> says flashing done
Jun 11 17:37:02 <xDaReaperx> erasing cmt
Jun 11 17:37:14 <GAN900> I think there's more to it than just becuase "they suck"
Jun 11 17:37:25 <Mece> gan900, in what context has noone stood out?
Jun 11 17:37:35 <Stskeeps> GAN900: there was also a problem that contribution agreement(wrong term) wasn't set up until late
Jun 11 17:37:46 <Stskeeps> at least with code
Jun 11 17:37:50 <kwtm> #1 on my Wishlist is something to make text entry easier: on my Treo 650, there's an app for "double-tapping the key [on the keyboard] means capitalize, and holding down the key for 0.3 seconds is same as pressing the Alt key".
Jun 11 17:37:58 <xDaReaperx> yes N900 workign again !
Jun 11 17:38:02 <GAN900> Mece, talking about Maemo contributors not really stepping up to MeeGo
Jun 11 17:38:14 <GAN900> Stskeeps, sure, but that's only a part of things.
Jun 11 17:38:15 <xDaReaperx> DocScrutinizer : Thanks a lot man ! you helped me a lot ! N900 works again
Jun 11 17:38:17 <xDaReaperx> :D
Jun 11 17:38:21 <xDaReaperx> took hardly 1 min
Jun 11 17:38:26 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: welcome
Jun 11 17:38:28 <kwtm> xDaReaperx: Did your N900 enjoy seeing you expose your naked body?  (j/k.  "Flashing my n900 now")
Jun 11 17:38:37 <xDaReaperx> huh
Jun 11 17:38:39 <Mece> gan900, why would they? we've got the awesome maemo going here :D
Jun 11 17:38:39 <xDaReaperx> lol
Jun 11 17:38:43 <GAN900> As a Maemo contributor, I can't say the initial atmosphere felt particularly welcoming.
Jun 11 17:39:13 <xDaReaperx> DocScrutinizer : The Dots are shown on the mobile , still not started fully
Jun 11 17:39:18 <kwtm> GAN900: Were they cliquey?  And were there official Intel/Nokia people, or just community?
Jun 11 17:39:18 <Stskeeps> do a retrospective then while we all remember the troubles
Jun 11 17:39:19 <xDaReaperx> should i unplug the cable ?
Jun 11 17:39:25 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: takes a while
Jun 11 17:39:32 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: that's a fist-boot
Jun 11 17:39:33 <xDaReaperx> yeah nokia hands come now
Jun 11 17:39:37 <DocScrutinizer> first even
Jun 11 17:39:38 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Jun 11 17:39:46 <Mece> well to me, maemo feels comfortable, and meego feels cold and industrial :)
Jun 11 17:39:47 <xDaReaperx> now it shows to set reginal settings
Jun 11 17:39:54 <xDaReaperx> oh lol
Jun 11 17:39:55 <crashanddie> fist boot. I wonder...
Jun 11 17:39:57 <GAN900> Mece, aye
Jun 11 17:40:16 <Jaffa> GAN	There's so much discouragement (and ignoring of suggestions) that it's soul destroying. Not checked to see if it's different in the forums recently.
Jun 11 17:40:17 <crashanddie> I quite liked MeeGo on the tablet
Jun 11 17:40:19 <Jaffa> i.e. "we'll have the mailing list for official comms, and the forum for end-users"
Jun 11 17:40:23 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: I knew you lke it XP
Jun 11 17:40:35 <DocScrutinizer> like, damn
Jun 11 17:40:40 <crashanddie> Jaffa: how is that different from Maemo, really?
Jun 11 17:40:51 <GAN900> Jaffa, yup.
Jun 11 17:40:57 <Mece> gan900, then again, maemo is at a much higher level than meego, at least I feel intimidated by the unfinished nature. easier with maemo.
Jun 11 17:41:04 <GAN900> crashanddie, define "Maemo"
Jun 11 17:41:05 <crashanddie> Jaffa: maemo has been like that for ages. Real discussions went on on the mailing lists, and then at some point an announcement was made (officially or not) on TMO
Jun 11 17:41:20 <t-tan> GAN900: I won't have a look a MeEgo before it is somewhat useable on my N900
Jun 11 17:41:41 <Stskeeps> do keep in mind in meego that it's not a democracy, as in, someone does have a last word, or disputes can be taken to people higher in hierarchy
Jun 11 17:42:02 <GAN900> Yeah, the TSG
Jun 11 17:42:13 <Stskeeps> ie, i might disagree with release engineering but there's a dispute path
Jun 11 17:42:21 <crashanddie> Jaffa: hire me
Jun 11 17:42:25 <Jaffa> crashanddie: yeah, so we pointed out the problems that caused on maemo.org and.... were just plain ignored
Jun 11 17:42:33 <GAN900> Which doesn't bother to do its homework
Jun 11 17:42:49 <GAN900> and cancels meetings with amazingly short notice half the time
Jun 11 17:42:51 <MohammadAG51> <crashanddie> Jaffa: hire me
Jun 11 17:43:01 <Jaffa> crashanddie: where I work? I wouldn't do that to you :(
Jun 11 17:43:05 <MohammadAG51> wow, I guess i could be convinced to go to meego
Jun 11 17:43:09 <crashanddie> Jaffa & GAN900: I think we may have put ourselves in that situation
Jun 11 17:44:07 <GAN900> crashanddie, which situation?
Jun 11 17:44:39 <crashanddie> Jaffa & GAN900: the whole .deb vs .rpm continuous and unending debates, trolls and discussions basically yelled one big message to anyone who has @intel or @nokia in their email address: They're nitpicking instead of trying to move forward. Everytime a decision will have to be made, we'll lose 2 weeks in useless debates until we've convinced every single noisy person.
Jun 11 17:44:59 <Stskeeps> i wouldn't have minded council to stand together and collaborated
Jun 11 17:45:19 <Stskeeps> appear as one and drag suggestions from consitutients
Jun 11 17:45:52 <crashanddie> Jaffa: nha, you, yourself. You're plenty rich. Gimme a bit of your children's inheritance and we're set. I'll also do some work.
Jun 11 17:45:58 <sjgadsby> RPM vs DEB was an embarrassment, but the micromanagement in MeeGo is smothering.
Jun 11 17:46:13 <t-tan> crashanddie: they should have learned that "decide behind closed doors and don't communicate the arguments" doesn't work in a democracy
Jun 11 17:46:16 <GAN900> that shit takes place everywher
Jun 11 17:46:22 <GAN900> It's hardly anything new
Jun 11 17:46:37 <Trizt> was it flameware like?
Jun 11 17:46:48 <GAN900> and if you want to claim to be "open", trolls and insane people are something you have to cope with
Jun 11 17:46:49 <xDaReaperx> all my apps are uninstalled after flashing lol , gotta install the important ones and this time i gotta be really carefull
Jun 11 17:46:58 <GAN900> Also: Howdy, sjgadsby. :J
Jun 11 17:47:11 <sjgadsby> Hi, GAN900.
Jun 11 17:47:14 <GAN900> s/J/)
Jun 11 17:47:19 <Stskeeps> t-tan: except it is clearly not a democracy, just like the linux kernel isn't
Jun 11 17:47:20 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 11 17:48:02 <GAN900> t-tan, s/democracy/open distribution
Jun 11 17:48:31 <mece1> GAN900, you need a trailing /
Jun 11 17:49:08 <t-tan> on the continuum of autocracy - democracy it's definitely not going on the latter end
Jun 11 17:49:11 <mece_> GAN900, you need a trailing /
Jun 11 17:49:18 <GAN900> mece1, I know, but I only use it when I actually want infobot to help out.
Jun 11 17:49:28 <t-tan> Mece: yes, I'm waiting for it, too. otherwise I can't parse it :)
Jun 11 17:49:44 <mece_> hehehe
Jun 11 17:50:39 <t-tan> MeEgo = Stalinux? :)
Jun 11 17:51:24 <Stskeeps> while this may upset some people, at least with MeeGo it seems like it's not about endless discussions, it's about actually doing something.
Jun 11 17:51:49 <Stskeeps> which i can't say that we were in maemo.org - it was limited how much work was actually performed as a community
Jun 11 17:51:57 <Stskeeps> there are, of course, good examples.
Jun 11 17:52:02 <t-tan> lol: http://stalinux.com/
Jun 11 17:53:02 <RST38h> BTW, is Quim still visiting maemo.org?
Jun 11 17:53:15 <RST38h> Or is it out of his scope of responsibility nowadays?
Jun 11 17:53:16 <DocScrutinizer> mece_: t-tan: s)gadsby ?
Jun 11 17:53:17 <Stskeeps> yes, he peeks in quite often
Jun 11 17:53:32 <Stskeeps> he's probably just as tired of tmo as the rest of us
Jun 11 17:53:34 <sjgadsby> RST38h: He left comments this morning and said he'd be back later today.
Jun 11 17:53:42 <microlith> can someone ban PradaBrada and delete his worthless posts?
Jun 11 17:53:57 <RST38h> ah, cool
Jun 11 17:53:59 <mece_> DocScrutinizer, i believe that was aimed at the smiley at the end.
Jun 11 17:54:12 * RST38h kinda thought maemo.org has been abandoned now
Jun 11 17:54:35 <RST38h> microlith: Would you also like someone to spank him with extreme prejudice? =)
Jun 11 17:54:58 <sjgadsby> RST38h: "No one goes there anymore; it's too crowded."
Jun 11 17:55:02 <GAN900> w00t_, official helps with perception, it maintains inertia and it doesn't kill enthusiasm.
Jun 11 17:55:05 * mece_ still likes maemo.org
Jun 11 17:55:41 <RST38h> sjgadsby: twue enough
Jun 11 17:57:44 <RST38h> Motorola Planning 2GHz Android Phone For Later This Year
Jun 11 17:58:07 <sjgadsby> microlith: We may begin using an infractions system at t.m.o soon. I'm hopeful it will help.
Jun 11 17:58:53 * mece_ wants more of these kind of things: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=708816#post708816
Jun 11 17:59:16 <mece_> RST38h, does it run meego?
Jun 11 17:59:26 <RST38h> mece: Android? No.
Jun 11 17:59:43 <RST38h> sjgadsby: Are you an admin at tmo?
Jun 11 18:00:02 <sjgadsby> RST38h: super moderator, not admin.
Jun 11 18:00:04 <mece_> RST38h, just kidding. I don't want android, but I'd like the hardware for maemo or meego :)
Jun 11 18:00:11 <frals> bug #10654
Jun 11 18:00:12 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10654 Strategic projections do not save images from MMS-and memory and can not see the number or name of the sender.
Jun 11 18:00:20 <RST38h> sjgadsby: Can I ask for a feature?
Jun 11 18:00:22 <frals> can anyone explain that to me?
Jun 11 18:00:36 <sjgadsby> RST38h: I can't implement features.
Jun 11 18:00:56 <RST38h> sjgadsby: Can you insist on someone else implementing features?
Jun 11 18:01:23 <FIQ> is there an easier way to refresh km and hour counter for a way other than cleanup, search and set it again?
Jun 11 18:01:27 <FIQ> @ maps
Jun 11 18:01:41 <sjgadsby> RST38h: No. Reggie's the only admin, and he's hard to get even a reply from, even as a moderator.
Jun 11 18:01:51 <andrewfblack> RST38h: Super Mods can hardly ask let alone insist :)
Jun 11 18:02:13 <RST38h> sjgadsby: <sigh>
Jun 11 18:02:40 <andrewfblack> RST38h: what feature were you wanting?
Jun 11 18:03:22 <RST38h> andrew: "Do not show threads started by people whose accounts are younger than X months"
Jun 11 18:04:14 <cehteh> where X=12?
Jun 11 18:04:40 <RST38h> cehteh: I would let the user choose X, and maybe make a few other tweaks
Jun 11 18:05:26 <t-tan> Stskeeps: what do you think are the odds for #9314
Jun 11 18:05:33 <Stskeeps> bug 9314
Jun 11 18:05:34 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9314 relicense BME
Jun 11 18:05:56 <ptl> voice changer for n900
Jun 11 18:06:16 <ptl> that would be useful. And creeepy
Jun 11 18:06:27 <t-tan> would it be possible give some developers access to the source?
Jun 11 18:06:28 <Stskeeps> t-tan: short story: no way in hell, long story: DocScrutinizer is talking to the nokia guys
Jun 11 18:06:34 <Surfa> ptl, how would it work?
Jun 11 18:06:51 <RST38h> voice chaRger for N900 would be creepy indeed
Jun 11 18:06:53 <ptl> Surfa: change pitch and formants and some other elements of speech on-the-fly
Jun 11 18:07:19 <t-tan> Stskeeps: ok, thx
Jun 11 18:07:49 <xDaReaperx> wow my N900 is heating up real bad
Jun 11 18:07:56 <andrewfblack> RST38h: I'm not not even sure I've seen an addon to block users by account created date
Jun 11 18:08:23 <RST38h> andrew: Not looking to block them, just hide their threads
Jun 11 18:09:09 <RST38h> andrew: I mean, we are all nice liberal and democratic, cannot ban people by arbitrary parameter
Jun 11 18:09:17 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: t-tan: well I *tried* to talk to them. No idea if there'll ever be an answer beyond "I have to do internal queries first"
Jun 11 18:09:27 <andrewfblack> RST38h: either way I'm not sure it can be done also what if a new dev joins and creates really cool software you might miss it
Jun 11 18:09:29 <RST38h> andrew: Which of course does not mean one cannot *ignore* them ;)
Jun 11 18:09:31 <sjgadsby> RST38h: Even if Reggie didn't object to the idea of the feature, it sounds like custom code, which pretty effectively kills it.
Jun 11 18:09:34 <dr34m> damn that akku is annoying had to charge it 3 times today already :o
Jun 11 18:09:35 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: you're much further than most people have been in the later years, so
Jun 11 18:10:07 <RST38h> andrew: I am ok taking a chance with that new developer, there are other ways to find out
Jun 11 18:10:47 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: an occasional poke general direction hah won't hurt, if you incidentally run into him
Jun 11 18:10:57 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: :nod:
Jun 11 18:12:59 <Stskeeps> man, PradaBada is a troll
Jun 11 18:13:09 <andrewfblack> RST38h: just did a quick search and couldn't find any vbulletin plugins for it so I would say it can't be done.  but like sjgadsby said even if we found a plugin for it as Super Mod it takes weeks sometimes for him to reply to us.
Jun 11 18:14:18 <t-tan> Stskeeps: how many people are authorised to talk the Guardian of BME? :)
Jun 11 18:14:33 <andrewfblack> anyone remember the name of the program for N8x0 that would let you connect your N8x0 to a cell phone over bluetooth then put internet access out over wifi?
Jun 11 18:15:01 <xDaReaperx> does extended call log work for anyone ? it just crashes for me
Jun 11 18:15:02 <FIQ> about maemo.org
Jun 11 18:15:05 <FIQ> http://rapidfiles.net/images/88313tmp.png
Jun 11 18:15:10 <FIQ> interesting huh
Jun 11 18:15:11 <Stskeeps> t-tan: i've met the guardian of bme
Jun 11 18:15:11 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 11 18:15:23 <Ikarus> Stskeeps: kidnap him
Jun 11 18:15:34 <Ikarus> then torture him to get him to reveal the secrets
Jun 11 18:16:30 <BCMM_> xDaReaperx: works here
Jun 11 18:17:00 <xDaReaperx> i dunno it just shuts for me
Jun 11 18:17:10 <xDaReaperx> never worked for me even before
Jun 11 18:17:13 <t-tan> if something happens to him all Nokia batteries will break. he probably has to live in an atomic shelter... :)
Jun 11 18:29:32 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: if you want to modify bme i can do it for you
Jun 11 18:29:47 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i've spent last week trying to understand how it works and what is where
Jun 11 18:30:18 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: we don't want to modify it though, we want to get a FOSS replacement
Jun 11 18:30:25 <crashanddie> FIQ: you need to shut down some tabs
Jun 11 18:30:31 <jacekowski> well, then you can ask how does bme work
Jun 11 18:30:37 <jacekowski> i'll have to document that
Jun 11 18:30:48 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: nevertheless any knowledge sharing highly welcome
Jun 11 18:31:08 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: please visit jrbme.garage
Jun 11 18:31:16 <ptl> jacekowski: would it be appropriate to document it on wiki.maemo.org ?
Jun 11 18:31:36 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME
Jun 11 18:31:42 <t-tan> jacekowski: cool. is it possible to temporarily disable some operations of bme?
Jun 11 18:31:54 <t-tan> i.e. without shutting down bme
Jun 11 18:32:29 <SpeedEvil> not easily.
Jun 11 18:32:32 <jacekowski> not by bme itself
Jun 11 18:32:47 <SpeedEvil> Possible if you for example jam a ld_preload or kernel shim layer in there
Jun 11 18:32:53 <DocScrutinizer> I suggest not to spread about details too much, as we don't want to see Nokia feel uncomfortable with some ""potentially hazardous"" info and maybe even code emerging
Jun 11 18:32:59 <xDaReaperx> offtopic : anyone watching the world cup ?
Jun 11 18:33:09 <SpeedEvil> xDaReaperx: I'm fairly certain some are.
Jun 11 18:33:11 <SpeedEvil> I'm not.
Jun 11 18:33:14 <xDaReaperx> oh
Jun 11 18:33:16 <pronto> xDaReaperx: there is a #archlinux-offtopic :p
Jun 11 18:33:26 <andrewfblack> will N900 do adhoc networking?
Jun 11 18:33:30 <jacekowski> t-tan: there is only one function in bme code that acctualy writes over i2c
Jun 11 18:33:41 <xDaReaperx> lol ok
Jun 11 18:33:43 <jacekowski> t-tan: when it's running
Jun 11 18:34:02 <jacekowski> t-tan: and that function can be easily patched
Jun 11 18:34:18 <SpeedEvil> andrewfblack: yes
Jun 11 18:34:25 <BCMM_> andrewfblack: yes
Jun 11 18:34:51 <FIQ> <crashanddie> FIQ: you need to shut down some tabs
Jun 11 18:35:10 <andrewfblack> then I guess I found a way to get internet access at work to bad I'm going to have to carry 3 devices all the time
Jun 11 18:35:18 <FIQ> mej
Jun 11 18:35:21 <FIQ> mwh*
Jun 11 18:35:22 <FIQ> ..
Jun 11 18:35:24 <FIQ> w/e
Jun 11 18:35:50 <BCMM_> andrewfblack: and there is an application for sharing your 3g connection over an adhoc
Jun 11 18:36:34 <andrewfblack> BCMM_: problem is N900 doesn't have any cell connection at work I'm going to have to bridge my second phone to my N900 thought my N810
Jun 11 18:37:13 * andrewfblack so wishes it was possible to connect his N900 to his work network
Jun 11 18:37:43 <crashanddie> FIQ: amazingly powerful retort. You should join a debate team.
Jun 11 18:38:26 <jpinx-eeepc> andrewfblack: what's stopping you?
Jun 11 18:38:55 <andrewfblack> jpinx-eeepc: crazy security setup that from what I can figure out only windows can connect to
Jun 11 18:39:19 <jpinx-eeepc> Ah - ok. Maybe try samba?
Jun 11 18:39:21 * SpeedEvil points andrewfblack to win95+dosbox
Jun 11 18:39:40 <andrewfblack> SpeedEvil: would that work?
Jun 11 18:40:23 <t-tan> jacekowski: would it be difficult to implement some dbus option for bme that can put the i2c function into r/o mode?
Jun 11 18:41:02 <jacekowski> t-tan: it would be easier to do over dsme interface
Jun 11 18:41:11 <andrewfblack> jpinx-eeepc: problem is WEP key is assigned by server and Radius server verifys who I am using login and cert.  Windows has an option to let Server assign WEP Linux doesn't
Jun 11 18:41:14 <SpeedEvil> andrewfblack: Probably not. No wifi driver
Jun 11 18:41:27 <SpeedEvil> WEP crackker
Jun 11 18:41:48 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: most parts of Nokia still seem to believe messing with BME will turn your N900 into a little bomb. Patching BME won't help to convince them about anything different. I suggest you don't discuss such hacks too publicly
Jun 11 18:42:05 <andrewfblack> SpeedEvil: I prefer not to break in lol
Jun 11 18:42:58 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: enroll.exe - google will help
Jun 11 18:43:05 <t-tan> jacekowski: dsme is undocumented and closed as well, correct?
Jun 11 18:43:47 <jacekowski> t-tan: yes
Jun 11 18:43:57 <jacekowski> t-tan: then there is bme interface as well
Jun 11 18:44:38 <jacekowski> but as DocScrutinizer noticed patching bme isn't very good idea
Jun 11 18:44:41 <jacekowski> but there are workarounds
Jun 11 18:44:49 <jacekowski> like LD_PRELOAD
Jun 11 18:45:03 <DocScrutinizer> and there's a bit of safety measures taken in BME as well (and in DSME), and that is much more interesting than mere charging. As we know how to charge, we don't need to RE BME for that
Jun 11 18:45:05 <jacekowski> but bme is doing fuck all really
Jun 11 18:45:31 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: what part are you interested in?
Jun 11 18:45:44 <t-tan> yes, but that would require messing with the boot scripts....
Jun 11 18:45:56 <DocScrutinizer> temperature monitoring and overtemp handling, e.g.
Jun 11 18:46:21 <jacekowski> t-tan: or restarting bme after boot
Jun 11 18:46:32 <jacekowski> t-tan: so you start phone with clean bme
Jun 11 18:46:35 <jacekowski> t-tan: then you restart it
Jun 11 18:46:43 <jacekowski> t-tan: with LD_PRELOAD
Jun 11 18:46:49 <DocScrutinizer> that's really easy, what's the problem in doing a simple "stop bme" for now?
Jun 11 18:46:58 <t-tan> jacekowski: for some reason restarting bme that crashes my device
Jun 11 18:47:09 <jacekowski> t-tan: you have to do it by doing stop bme
Jun 11 18:47:15 <DocScrutinizer> t-tan: then you fsckd it up ;-P
Jun 11 18:47:26 <jacekowski> t-tan: otherwise upstart will detect it and send info to dsme
Jun 11 18:47:30 <t-tan> yes, I do "stop bme"
Jun 11 18:47:41 <DocScrutinizer> WFM
Jun 11 18:47:51 <jacekowski> AWFM
Jun 11 18:48:06 <t-tan> ..with non-stock kernel, which we need for USBhost anyway
Jun 11 18:48:20 <DocScrutinizer> t-tan isn't happy until he solved the issue on kernel domain level XP
Jun 11 18:49:52 <DocScrutinizer> t-tan: it works with stock kernel 1.1.1 and 1.2 as well as with MohammadAG51's patched version
Jun 11 18:50:24 <MohammadAG51> what?
Jun 11 18:50:32 <MohammadAG51> oh, nvm
Jun 11 18:50:38 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: if it doesn't work for you, I strongly recommend to sort out the issue - but not by patching BME
Jun 11 18:50:46 <DocScrutinizer> oops
Jun 11 18:50:51 <MohammadAG51> ???
Jun 11 18:50:54 <DocScrutinizer> t-tan:  if it doesn't work for you, I strongly recommend to sort out the issue - but not by patching BME
Jun 11 18:51:11 <MohammadAG51> riiight, back to wc
Jun 11 18:51:37 <DocScrutinizer> WC?
Jun 11 18:51:42 <DocScrutinizer> 00
Jun 11 18:51:48 <t-tan> MohammadAG51: yep, don't patch BME!!
Jun 11 18:51:49 <DocScrutinizer> toilet? :-P
Jun 11 18:51:52 <andrewfblack> I'm not going to give up on N900 at owkr for another month or so then I'm just going to order a http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/product_detail.do?storeName=storefronts&landing=handheld&category=PDA&lanAttr=Type&orderflow=1&product_code=FB041AA%23ABA&catLevel=2 for work
Jun 11 18:51:57 <MohammadAG51> World Cup xD
Jun 11 18:52:39 <t-tan> MohammadAG51: on the toilet? :)
Jun 11 18:52:56 <MohammadAG51> hehe
Jun 11 18:52:59 <MohammadAG51> no XP
Jun 11 18:53:14 <xDaReaperx> oh lol
Jun 11 18:53:20 <MohammadAG51> anyone else watching it?
Jun 11 18:53:32 <xDaReaperx> yeah me
Jun 11 18:53:54 <MohammadAG51> i'm still waiting for a maemo.org ad
Jun 11 18:54:01 <MohammadAG51> did anyone get it in there?
Jun 11 18:54:02 <t-tan> DocScrutinizer: bme fails if enable more features, which means it's very instable
Jun 11 18:54:16 <DocScrutinizer> you bet it is
Jun 11 18:54:30 <t-tan> MohammadAG51: is there an App for it?
Jun 11 18:54:39 <DocScrutinizer> seems to be *mega-ugly* poorly written code
Jun 11 18:54:44 <MohammadAG51> t-tan, you could've stopped before "if"
Jun 11 18:55:01 <MohammadAG51> t-tan, nope
Jun 11 18:55:04 <MohammadAG51> pelota
Jun 11 18:55:10 <t-tan> I know, Big MEss
Jun 11 18:55:11 <MohammadAG51> not an official app
Jun 11 18:55:58 <t-tan> MohammadAG51: thx
Jun 11 18:56:25 <kaudio> hi
Jun 11 18:56:32 <DocScrutinizer> bbl
Jun 11 18:56:46 <kaudio> can i conect usb modem in n810 ?
Jun 11 18:58:38 <jacekowski> everything that don't need more than 200mA
Jun 11 18:58:42 <jacekowski> and has linux drivers
Jun 11 18:59:15 <kaudio> how conect usb modem in n810 ?
Jun 11 18:59:59 <jacekowski> hmm n810
Jun 11 19:02:18 <DocScrutinizer> enable hostmode with usb hostmode app, plug in externally powered hub, plug modem to hub
Jun 11 19:03:02 <GAN900> Goddamn I'm tired of having to reboot this thing like it's Windows 98
Jun 11 19:03:21 <DocScrutinizer> you'll need an adapter USB-F2F, to plug the hub upstream cable to the Nokia CA-101 cable
Jun 11 19:03:38 <DocScrutinizer> gnao.O
Jun 11 19:03:51 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: O.o
Jun 11 19:05:00 <DocScrutinizer> ""you moved the mouse pointer. Please reboot to put the change to effect""
Jun 11 19:05:26 <DocScrutinizer> (sorry for poor back-xlation)
Jun 11 19:05:41 <GAN900> It starts to become slooooooowww
Jun 11 19:05:49 <DocScrutinizer> oooh
Jun 11 19:06:08 <DocScrutinizer> memleak or cpu hog?
Jun 11 19:06:36 <DocScrutinizer> or something really nasty?
Jun 11 19:06:37 <t-tan> DocScrutinizer: "please click here to save your changes and to reboot"
Jun 11 19:06:54 <DocScrutinizer> t-tan: thanks :-D
Jun 11 19:08:18 <ptl> /etc/event.d/reboot start on startup
Jun 11 19:09:56 <DocScrutinizer> ptl: sounds like a nice idea :-D
Jun 11 19:10:20 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, probably memleak
Jun 11 19:10:31 <GAN900> I haven't done any investigation yet though
Jun 11 19:10:37 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: blame microb/flash
Jun 11 19:10:59 <DocScrutinizer> flash is proven to be leaky
Jun 11 19:11:33 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: watch a 30s youtube, keep browser window open for a day ->fscked
Jun 11 19:12:13 <MohammadAG51> same with javascript
Jun 11 19:12:22 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, prolly
Jun 11 19:13:19 <DocScrutinizer> tbh I never faced that "gets slow after days" issue. Just that "freezes on inbound call, after keeping open microb"
Jun 11 19:14:21 <DocScrutinizer> and that only on "special" sites, where some crap js/flash is displayed
Jun 11 19:14:38 <konfoo> hot damn i just love fixing broken erlang installs
Jun 11 19:14:38 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: what do you specificaly want to know about these protections?
Jun 11 19:14:45 <DocScrutinizer> so probably 90% of "commercial" pages
Jun 11 19:15:19 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: how they work, what sensors they use, when they are triggered
Jun 11 19:16:07 <DocScrutinizer> there's roundabout half a dozen temperature sensors inside N900 - that I know of
Jun 11 19:16:59 <SpeedEvil> the one in the SoC is mentioned as 'don't use'
Jun 11 19:17:03 <SpeedEvil> by TI
Jun 11 19:17:07 <DocScrutinizer> also other protective messures highly interesting
Jun 11 19:17:10 <SpeedEvil> no, I diddn't save the link to the forum
Jun 11 19:17:56 <DocScrutinizer> like "general battery error" - whatever the triggering cause might be
Jun 11 19:18:20 <DocScrutinizer> BSI (the ADC in twl4030)
Jun 11 19:18:30 <DocScrutinizer> how is it used?
Jun 11 19:21:09 <RST38h> Doc: Got a list of /sys entries?
Jun 11 19:21:53 <maddler> howdy!!!
Jun 11 19:22:04 <ptl> howdy ho!
Jun 11 19:22:09 <maddler> wake up, lazy bummers!
Jun 11 19:22:10 <maddler> :)
Jun 11 19:22:16 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: especially BSI - as there's a lot of fuzz and legends around that one. Could be everything from NTC temp sensor inside battery to cell chemistry indicator to "just used for no special purpose, as it's there"
Jun 11 19:22:24 <jacekowski> BSI?
Jun 11 19:22:41 <maddler> Butchered Smoothly Inside
Jun 11 19:22:42 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: the third contact of battery
Jun 11 19:22:59 <DocScrutinizer> supposedly Battery Size Indicator
Jun 11 19:23:30 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: of what exactly?
Jun 11 19:23:37 <xDaReaperx> i tried the roadrunner app , dosent seem to work lol , hope i dont get caught speeding
Jun 11 19:23:40 <RST38h> Doc: Of all the temperature sensors of course!
Jun 11 19:24:15 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: you are talking about thingy connected to pin named BSI
Jun 11 19:24:16 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: I guess most of then aren't used at all, probably none of them is exposed to /sys
Jun 11 19:24:24 <DocScrutinizer> yep, jacekowski
Jun 11 19:24:31 <RST38h> Doc: shame
Jun 11 19:24:33 <jacekowski> hmm that's going to be fun
Jun 11 19:24:42 <jacekowski> there is nothing about it in datasheed
Jun 11 19:24:47 <jacekowski> datasheet
Jun 11 19:24:49 <GAN900> lol, resounding endorsement from Reggie
Jun 11 19:24:53 <GAN900> Interesting
Jun 11 19:25:01 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: I gather it's going to a A/D inside twl4030 GAIA
Jun 11 19:25:02 <RST38h> BSI = Blowing to Shit Immediately
Jun 11 19:25:11 <RST38h> When you see a logical "1" there, RUN.
Jun 11 19:25:17 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i do know that
Jun 11 19:25:21 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: but i have no idea which one
Jun 11 19:26:08 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i'm using tps65950 datasheet that's supposed to be pin compatible
Jun 11 19:26:44 <jacekowski> but c10 on that is a ground
Jun 11 19:27:29 <RST38h> Wilder Publication is under fire for putting warning labels on copies of historical US documents, including the Constitution. The label warns "This book is a product of its time and does not reflect the same values as it would if it were written today."
Jun 11 19:27:44 <DocScrutinizer> Sorry, seems I'm missing a bit. Thought I remember it's routed to GAIA, but actually scanning the schem it runs to GAZOO (modem)
Jun 11 19:27:50 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: ^^^
Jun 11 19:27:54 <Mousey> RST38h: they should put that label on bibles
Jun 11 19:28:48 <jacekowski> do we have any ida what gazoo is?
Jun 11 19:28:58 <RST38h> Mousey: they will rather put the Constitution title on the bible
Jun 11 19:29:07 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: and bme isn't talking to anything except two bq chips and twl4030
Jun 11 19:29:38 <t-tan> Mousey: they will put "Warning: this it the truth" labels on the bible
Jun 11 19:29:48 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: yes, there's another "battery temp sensor" on GAIA ADCIN0
Jun 11 19:29:50 <Mousey> Truth(tm)
Jun 11 19:30:03 <RST38h> jacekowski: Gazoo is a really lousy Martian from a cartoon
Jun 11 19:30:31 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: so the question is: does BME or DSME talk to the modem - maybe the modem's drivers whatever they are?
Jun 11 19:30:32 <xDaReaperx> there's an actual Temperature monitor for N900 ?
Jun 11 19:30:50 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx: dozens :-P
Jun 11 19:31:04 <xDaReaperx> hmm name a good one
Jun 11 19:31:24 <DocScrutinizer> xDaReaperx:  yes, there's another "battery temp sensor" on GAIA ADCIN0
Jun 11 19:31:34 <xDaReaperx> hmm okay
Jun 11 19:31:59 <DocScrutinizer> one is inside LYSTII LP5523 LED controller chip
Jun 11 19:32:03 <DocScrutinizer> (unused)
Jun 11 19:32:27 <xDaReaperx> so much and i never knew lol
Jun 11 19:32:36 <DocScrutinizer> one is inside bq24150 bat charger chip (probably used bot not exported to sys)
Jun 11 19:32:39 <Mousey> t-tan: http://www.mopo.ca/uploaded_images/Bible-Warning-Label-702307.jpg
Jun 11 19:32:39 <RST38h> Doc: sneaky, they really expected the led controller to overheat
Jun 11 19:33:00 <RST38h> Doc: They need a bigger led!
Jun 11 19:33:53 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: nope, it's for calibrating LED current to compensate fro changing efficiency of LEDs over temp
Jun 11 19:33:57 <xDaReaperx> any applications that can actually read the temperatures ?
Jun 11 19:33:59 <t-tan> Mousey: yes, I think I have watched that thriller movie recently ;-)
Jun 11 19:34:01 <RST38h> oh
Jun 11 19:34:13 * RST38h thought that was only true for led lasers
Jun 11 19:34:18 <Mousey> ^_^
Jun 11 19:34:27 <RST38h> normal led stuff isn't very sensitive to temperature
Jun 11 19:34:44 <jacekowski> xDaReaperx: well, you can read it from /dev/twl4030-madc
Jun 11 19:34:59 <xDaReaperx> hmm okay
Jun 11 19:35:06 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, you *can* calibrate a temp-coefficient to compensate for that
Jun 11 19:35:15 <xDaReaperx> like ?
Jun 11 19:35:50 <pupnik> nokia, please give n9 better speakers than n900)
Jun 11 19:36:15 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: I don't think N900 speakers are particularly bad
Jun 11 19:36:16 <RST38h> pupnik: is it ok if n9 runs Symbian^3?
Jun 11 19:36:18 * RST38h ducks
Jun 11 19:36:24 <tripzero> lol
Jun 11 19:36:27 <timoph> :)
Jun 11 19:36:40 <tripzero> n8 runs symbian, i thought n9 was going to be a meego device?
Jun 11 19:36:42 <xDaReaperx> lol
Jun 11 19:36:49 <RST38h> nobody ever said that
Jun 11 19:36:58 <xDaReaperx> well could be that the N9 would run meego  , but its never sure
Jun 11 19:37:07 <tripzero> rumors
Jun 11 19:37:11 <greenfly> I don't think anyone ever says anything until the day something is released
Jun 11 19:37:49 <xDaReaperx> or a prototype ^
Jun 11 19:38:41 <RST38h> ah, hello, konttori
Jun 11 19:38:43 <DocScrutinizer> please pointers to N9! never heard of...
Jun 11 19:38:48 <konttori> hi
Jun 11 19:38:50 <RST38h> Doc: google?
Jun 11 19:39:01 <RST38h> Doc: (there are not many though, nothing to look at)
Jun 11 19:39:01 <DocScrutinizer> konttori: Hi :-)
Jun 11 19:39:15 <frals> o/
Jun 11 19:39:33 <GAN900> MeeGo's actually just Nokia conning us into directing our energy somewhere
Jun 11 19:39:44 <GAN900> They're never actually shipping a product. :P
Jun 11 19:39:55 <RST38h> You never know
Jun 11 19:40:01 <RST38h> Maybe they will ship a netbook!
Jun 11 19:40:03 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, stupid house digram on Engadget.
Jun 11 19:40:05 <frals> so where in finland would i go to get some tiger balm?
Jun 11 19:40:05 * RST38h ducks even harder
Jun 11 19:40:31 <GAN900> frals, I could sell you some and mail it. :P
Jun 11 19:40:35 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: the existence os software speaker protection indicates they do not perform up to spec
Jun 11 19:40:39 <t-tan> what does the chimney mean?
Jun 11 19:40:57 <frals> GAN900: thanks but err, it be faster to get someone back home in sweden to mail it i assume ;)
Jun 11 19:40:58 <t-tan> smoking hot device?
Jun 11 19:41:21 <timoph> frals: the pharmacy?
Jun 11 19:41:24 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: not really, the problem is we got a class-D amp with no highpass filter to get rid of DC/LF
Jun 11 19:41:34 <frals> alright
Jun 11 19:41:37 <xDaReaperx> This is weird , my phone is up to date , but now when i browse to store.ovi.com it says you need to update maemo
Jun 11 19:41:41 <frals> apotekki or whatever its called? ;o
Jun 11 19:41:54 <timoph> apteekki :)
Jun 11 19:42:12 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: if the speakers need lf filter to not break, it should be designed in the pcb
Jun 11 19:42:21 <pupnik> why are we even discussing this
Jun 11 19:42:21 <timoph> not sure if they sell it but it's good place to start asking
Jun 11 19:42:22 <vldcnst> maemo.org down?
Jun 11 19:42:27 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: ack, but it wasn't
Jun 11 19:42:33 <frals> ah, think i have that across the street
Jun 11 19:42:37 <xDaReaperx> wait maemo.org is down ?
Jun 11 19:42:39 <frals> cheers timoph
Jun 11 19:42:48 <xDaReaperx> wont load
Jun 11 19:42:56 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: i am curious to learn the reason for xprot
Jun 11 19:43:02 <timoph> yep. waiting for maemo.org
Jun 11 19:43:28 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: listening to n810 now. volume is sufficient
Jun 11 19:43:42 <xDaReaperx> maemo loads now
Jun 11 19:43:59 <DocScrutinizer> well, I'm not any wiser than you about Nokia's internal bugtracker and the details. But it's obvious there is a LF/DC issue in the circuit
Jun 11 19:46:22 <DocScrutinizer> but that doesn't mean the AMP is *not* too strong for the speakers, nevertheless I like it better this way round than the other which would mean amp is clipping before speakers porform up to their full power
Jun 11 19:47:36 <DocScrutinizer> so wrt that your N900 is in no way diferent to your home stereo
Jun 11 19:48:18 <DocScrutinizer> just for your home stereo *you* are the limiter usually ;-P
Jun 11 19:48:33 <DocScrutinizer> while for N900 we need one in software
Jun 11 19:48:42 <xDaReaperx> my N900 firmware is up to date , but when i go to the ovi store it says you need to update your firmware
Jun 11 19:49:56 <DocScrutinizer> just forget ovi
Jun 11 19:50:20 <xDaReaperx> hmm
Jun 11 19:50:23 <xDaReaperx> why ?
Jun 11 19:51:03 <DocScrutinizer> because it seems ovi store is utterly useless for N900
Jun 11 19:51:24 <lbt> SpeedEvil:  :) thanks
Jun 11 19:51:32 <lbt> mece_: you too
Jun 11 19:52:01 <xDaReaperx> hmm ok
Jun 11 19:55:13 <DocScrutinizer> ++ for texrat
Jun 11 19:55:50 <ptl> it's useless for me at least
Jun 11 19:56:02 <ptl> I'd like to buy QuickPanorama
Jun 11 19:56:04 <ptl> but I can't
Jun 11 19:56:09 <ptl> not supported for my country
Jun 11 19:59:00 <lbt> how do I type swedish into an N900 with a uk keyb?
Jun 11 19:59:09 <lbt> Mjölk
Jun 11 19:59:21 <pupnik> n810 screen size is better
Jun 11 19:59:35 <MohammadAG51> swap em
Jun 11 19:59:46 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, did you just read that post?
Jun 11 20:00:10 <pupnik> i have  a great dpad design
Jun 11 20:00:14 <DocScrutinizer> just skipped to the thread you started on tmo
Jun 11 20:03:48 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, ah, do read the whole of his article.
Jun 11 20:04:08 <DocScrutinizer> the cryptotabula?
Jun 11 20:04:13 <DocScrutinizer> I did
Jun 11 20:05:00 <ZogG> MohammadAG51, say wat?
Jun 11 20:13:58 <ecksun> is there a way to find out if the GPS is in use or if the phone uses cell ids or something similar to determin the location?
Jun 11 20:14:30 <microlith> if the GPS goes active, there's a satellite dish icon in the notification area
Jun 11 20:14:55 <ecksun> yes, but even if i use nonstattelitepositioningmethods the dish appears
Jun 11 20:15:07 <ecksun> Im developing with qtmobility - location
Jun 11 20:15:12 <microlith> hm, no tsure
Jun 11 20:15:23 <crashanddie> stattelite positioning methods?
Jun 11 20:15:31 <crashanddie> what the fuck is stattelite?
Jun 11 20:15:44 <ecksun> crashanddie, a typo
Jun 11 20:16:04 <crashanddie> you meant satellite?
Jun 11 20:16:10 <ecksun> yes
Jun 11 20:16:15 <ecksun> http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.0/qgeopositioninfosource.html#PositioningMethod-enum
Jun 11 20:16:24 <crashanddie> damn, that's a serious typo bro
Jun 11 20:16:41 <ecksun> indeed, never the less my question still remains :)
Jun 11 20:17:03 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: if you are interested it's very simple to read from twl4030
Jun 11 20:17:33 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: I know. The question is what BME does with it
Jun 11 20:17:45 <jacekowski> not a lot
Jun 11 20:18:06 <jacekowski> there is one function that's used to read from it 00015D84
Jun 11 20:19:14 <jacekowski> and there are couple calls to it and these calls read ADCs: 4,9,0,12
Jun 11 20:19:46 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
Jun 11 20:22:18 <b-man> did you guys see this? http://learningwebgl.com/blog/?p=2303
Jun 11 20:24:59 <mece_> lbt, huh, what?
Jun 11 20:25:26 * mece_ was watching the game.
Jun 11 20:25:56 <mece_> b-man, yeah, I tested some demos, and it was pretty cool.
Jun 11 20:27:13 <jacekowski> hmm i just said 0
Jun 11 20:27:22 <lbt> mece_: testing shopper
Jun 11 20:27:59 <lbt> although annoyingly someone had a bug wrt utf-8 and I fixed it...
Jun 11 20:28:15 <lbt> so I'm debating pushing the fixed version...
Jun 11 20:30:10 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> is there a minimal browser for maemo or a minimal mode for fennec - so I can use mobile sites faster (I'm assuming it loads the full site in fennec)
Jun 11 20:31:36 <mece_> lbt, I suggest pushing the fixed version right away and making a [maemo5] announce thread with a link to the testing page. I don't think you ever actually announced the app for N900.
Jun 11 20:31:50 <lbt> OK :)
Jun 11 20:31:56 <lbt> it's a weekend
Jun 11 20:31:57 <CutMeOwnThroat> how do you save the current time to the hardware-clock?
Jun 11 20:32:10 <lbt> hwclock
Jun 11 20:32:13 <mece_> lbt, :D
Jun 11 20:32:34 <CutMeOwnThroat> that's not in my maemo... anyway, isn't that pc-hardware only?
Jun 11 20:32:46 <lbt> Usage: hwclock [-r|--show] [-s|--hctosys] [-w|--systohc] [-l|--localtime] [-u|--utc] [-f FILE]
Jun 11 20:32:50 <lbt> on my n900?
Jun 11 20:33:01 <lbt> from busybox
Jun 11 20:33:03 <CutMeOwnThroat> well, N810 here
Jun 11 20:33:15 <jacekowski> CutMeOwnThroat: all devices have rtc
Jun 11 20:33:20 <lbt> well now... it doesn't work on an Atari either ;)
Jun 11 20:33:30 * lbt ducks
Jun 11 20:33:30 <CutMeOwnThroat> jacekowski, with what you mean what exactly?
Jun 11 20:33:41 <jacekowski> RTC- real time clock
Jun 11 20:33:49 <jacekowski> that's what hwclock is manipulating
Jun 11 20:33:58 <CutMeOwnThroat> i got the abbreviation, I just don't know what you mean
Jun 11 20:34:12 <jacekowski> 22:32 < CutMeOwnThroat> that's not in my maemo... anyway, isn't that pc-hardware only?
Jun 11 20:34:16 <CutMeOwnThroat> ok
Jun 11 20:34:23 <CutMeOwnThroat> so hwclock would work if I had it
Jun 11 20:34:24 <jacekowski> just stating that it isn't pc only
Jun 11 20:34:31 <CutMeOwnThroat> right
Jun 11 20:34:39 <jacekowski> yes
Jun 11 20:34:46 <jacekowski> hwclock can access clock in 2 ways
Jun 11 20:34:49 <jacekowski> one is pc way
Jun 11 20:34:54 <jacekowski> which is default one
Jun 11 20:35:02 <jacekowski> another is trough kernel driver
Jun 11 20:35:06 <jacekowski> and /dev/rtc
Jun 11 20:35:13 <jacekowski> or it's other way round
Jun 11 20:35:25 <mece_> lcuk, aahaha I just got what "feature creep" meant. And you're right. Although I think the filename extension is a pretty good feature and I've cursed the lack of it many times.
Jun 11 20:36:04 <mece_> wait, omg lcuk is not here!
Jun 11 20:36:22 <jacekowski> hmmmmm
Jun 11 20:36:26 <CutMeOwnThroat> hm, in lenny, hwclock is supposed to be in util-linux, which is not in diablo (I'm supposing it hasn't migrated between packages since etch)
Jun 11 20:36:27 <jacekowski> that looks interesting
Jun 11 20:36:51 <CutMeOwnThroat> so how does the N810 ever set the hardware clock?
Jun 11 20:37:26 <DocScrutinizer> probably the usual GUi / system ways to set time deal with setting RTC, on diablo
Jun 11 20:37:26 <CutMeOwnThroat> I noticed that if I run ntpd and adjust the time, it'll be wrong again after the device was switched off
Jun 11 20:37:35 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: http://pastebin.com/G1wjArcB
Jun 11 20:37:39 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: that looks interesting
Jun 11 20:37:48 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: it's reading adc 4
Jun 11 20:38:04 <jacekowski> ret: 0 status: 0 result: 469
Jun 11 20:38:21 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> is there an automated way to install lots of stuff from the package manager other than one-by-one?
Jun 11 20:38:58 <MiXu-> Yes. I'm not sure how it works but the backup/restore function utilizes that.
Jun 11 20:38:58 <jacekowski> apt
Jun 11 20:39:22 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> oh, you mean use the cmd line rather than the gui?
Jun 11 20:39:30 <MiXu-> apt from command line is prolly easier solution :)
Jun 11 20:39:41 <DocScrutinizer> strongly discouraged, but yes
Jun 11 20:40:51 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: that's for sure interesting, but needs further investigation otherwise is quite obscure and meaningless
Jun 11 20:41:37 <CutMeOwnThroat> discouraged?
Jun 11 20:41:46 <mece> ljsdofuynsdfufuh, yeah apt ftw. Also, a good way for getting help is to change your nick to something shorter and easier to type :P
Jun 11 20:42:47 <mece> CutMeOwnThroat, well I suppose you can cause some damage with apt if you don't know what you're doing ;)
Jun 11 20:42:58 <CutMeOwnThroat> like what?
Jun 11 20:43:10 <jacekowski> hmm BSI isn't a temperature
Jun 11 20:43:13 <jacekowski> that's for sure
Jun 11 20:43:28 <CutMeOwnThroat> I think you'll do damage by adding weird stuff to your sources.list independent of if you use the gui thingy or apt-get
Jun 11 20:43:36 <jacekowski> unless it's working in reverse
Jun 11 20:43:45 <DocScrutinizer> why not
Jun 11 20:44:00 <mece> CutMeOwnThroat, well.. if you do apt-get remove libhildonfm2 for example, which I did recently, and ignore the gigantic list of stuff listed under "these will be removed" you'll have some trouble :)
Jun 11 20:44:06 <jacekowski> well, i'm reading 29 on really warm phone
Jun 11 20:44:15 <jacekowski> and colder phone was reading 38-39
Jun 11 20:44:16 <DocScrutinizer> as mentioned before these are usually NTC, which means Ohms drop with rising temp
Jun 11 20:44:21 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> mece, you know you can just push tab after the first few chars and it fills in the name
Jun 11 20:44:28 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> speaking of tab, where is it on the n900
Jun 11 20:44:29 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> heh
Jun 11 20:44:32 <CutMeOwnThroat> mece, that's a lot of ifs :)
Jun 11 20:44:33 <mece> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: OMG
Jun 11 20:44:37 <mece> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: thanks :D
Jun 11 20:44:39 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> lol
Jun 11 20:44:42 <jacekowski> well, i'll have to find that code in bme
Jun 11 20:44:45 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> suddenly everything is easier
Jun 11 20:44:58 <crashanddie> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: could you use a real nick, please?
Jun 11 20:44:59 <mece> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: but I like to use , instead of :
Jun 11 20:45:03 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> yep, I've 'puter skills; time to get phone skills
Jun 11 20:45:18 <mece> crashanddie: well yours isn't the best one either :P
Jun 11 20:45:19 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> just bought the n900
Jun 11 20:45:36 <crashanddie> mece: no, but at least it means something
Jun 11 20:45:38 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> wonder if there is a guide somewhere to initial tricking it out
Jun 11 20:45:49 <mece> crashanddie: tru dat.
Jun 11 20:45:57 <mece> s/tru/true/
Jun 11 20:45:58 <infobot> mece meant: crashanddie: true dat.
Jun 11 20:46:02 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: yes, the compares against certain limits, that's what is interesting, and what exactly are those limits
Jun 11 20:46:11 <DocScrutinizer> cya
Jun 11 20:46:50 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> what do you all use instead of kismet on the maemo
Jun 11 20:46:51 <mece> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: what kind of tricking are you thinking about?
Jun 11 20:46:54 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> for gps/hotspots
Jun 11 20:47:05 <mece> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: nothing.
Jun 11 20:47:14 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> tricking, just getting used to all of the possible features etc
Jun 11 20:47:19 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> that's odd
Jun 11 20:47:20 <MohammadAG51> BlessN900 is kinda weird
Jun 11 20:47:27 <MohammadAG51> it replaces the camera driver
Jun 11 20:47:47 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51: yeah, I don't know what to think of it
Jun 11 20:48:00 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51: apparently they're in the process of patenting a shitload of idaes
Jun 11 20:48:14 <crashanddie> though the results are marginal at best
Jun 11 20:48:32 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> how do you manage all of the apps you guys have installed?
Jun 11 20:48:33 <crashanddie> and their website is ridiculous.
Jun 11 20:48:42 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> just call them everytime via cmdline?
Jun 11 20:48:53 <mece> MohammadAG51: what is BlessN900?
Jun 11 20:49:05 <MohammadAG51> mece, a camera app which makes it magical
Jun 11 20:49:07 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: like "bme stops charging, when readout of ADCIN4 in GAIA (0xF0, adr xy, blah) is <4711" - then write that down and post to jrbme forum or wiki about bme
Jun 11 20:49:15 <MohammadAG51> and takes "HDR" pics
Jun 11 20:49:16 <crashanddie> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: please change your nickname, I've sent you a private message, and you've been asked twice in this very channel. Next stop for you will prevent you from talking.
Jun 11 20:49:22 <mece> MohammadAG51: nice.
Jun 11 20:49:33 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I've had no private messages
Jun 11 20:49:47 <MohammadAG51> crashanddie, I installed it, but... can't see much of a diff
Jun 11 20:49:52 <MohammadAG51> plus the pics are borked
Jun 11 20:50:05 <shorter> crashanddie you realize you can push tab after the first few chars, right?
Jun 11 20:50:19 <crashanddie> shorter: you realise I can ban your ass for no reason, right?
Jun 11 20:50:30 <shorter> I didn't
Jun 11 20:50:33 <GAN900> crashanddie, shush
Jun 11 20:50:48 <shorter> so far I've had a great experience at #maemo
Jun 11 20:50:53 <shorter> I'd hate to see that change
Jun 11 20:50:56 <mece> shorter: careful crashanddie has a very itchy  ban finger ;)
Jun 11 20:50:59 <crashanddie> me too.
Jun 11 20:51:08 <jacekowski> crashanddie: i would just ban him
Jun 11 20:51:09 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51: you have to crop at 100% if you want to see differences. You also need to take the picture with both systems to actually compare and notice the differences
Jun 11 20:51:11 <shorter> actually one of the reasons I went for buying the n900 was the quality of this channel
Jun 11 20:51:16 <mece> sh
Jun 11 20:51:17 <jacekowski> for a year at least
Jun 11 20:51:23 <mece> shorter: hee
Jun 11 20:51:33 <crashanddie> shorter: you've been here before?
Jun 11 20:51:44 <jacekowski> probably under nick longer
Jun 11 20:51:46 <MohammadAG51> crashanddie, it has lines in the pic, I thought the driver was broken
Jun 11 20:51:50 <shorter> under my old name a whole lot, yes
Jun 11 20:52:00 <crashanddie> shorter: and what was that name?
Jun 11 20:52:05 <shorter> I've spent many hours chatting here and no one was sour before
Jun 11 20:52:15 <shorter> ljsdofuynsdfufuh
Jun 11 20:52:27 <jacekowski> uuuuu
Jun 11 20:52:30 <crashanddie> damn, I must be lucky, never seen you
Jun 11 20:52:37 <jacekowski> he's using multiple sessions here
Jun 11 20:52:40 <jacekowski> that's evil
Jun 11 20:52:47 <jacekowski> and reason to ban
Jun 11 20:52:54 <mece> wtf?
Jun 11 20:53:00 <shorter> Yeah, I don't get it
Jun 11 20:53:08 <shorter> back to maemo discussion
Jun 11 20:53:20 <shorter> I was asking how yall organize all of the apps you've installed
Jun 11 20:53:28 <mece> crashanddie: don't be mean :P
Jun 11 20:53:40 <mece> shorter: whadya mean organize?
Jun 11 20:53:48 <greenfly> shorter: ideally the app launcher would keep track of each time you launch an app, and then you could sort by frequency
Jun 11 20:54:05 <crashanddie> shorter: You've been here two or three times. Don't bluff. http://www.google.com/search?q=site:http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/+ljsdofuynsdfufuh
Jun 11 20:54:06 <greenfly> not sure how difficult such a feature would be to add though
Jun 11 20:54:15 <sjgadsby> greenfly: You trying to mess with my muscle memory?
Jun 11 20:54:33 <shorter> I said I had, yes
Jun 11 20:54:41 <greenfly> sjgadsby: heh, neh, that's the beauty of it being an option
Jun 11 20:54:50 <crashanddie> shorter: anyway, let's move on. Sorry for being an ass.
Jun 11 20:55:29 <crashanddie> shorter: I just use catorise, which does the job fine
Jun 11 20:55:53 <crashanddie> shorter: it splits all the apps in different menus. Pretty neat once you remember where everything went
Jun 11 20:55:55 <mece> shorter: I have big pile of stuff, and the things I use alot I put on a desktop :)
Jun 11 20:56:05 <greenfly> ^^^
Jun 11 20:56:17 <shorter> will do
Jun 11 20:56:17 <greenfly> I do the same, if I have to dig through the huge menu more than a few times, it goes on the desktop
Jun 11 20:56:30 <mece> crashanddie: I had that, but I found myself only using "all", so I removed it.
Jun 11 20:56:32 * MohammadAG51 gives catorise another try
Jun 11 20:56:34 <shorter> I'm used to fluxbox so....heh
Jun 11 20:56:45 * mece doesn't have all that many apps installed.
Jun 11 20:57:03 * MohammadAG51 has a shitload of icons
Jun 11 20:57:14 <greenfly> well right now when you type on the desktop, it enters a search mode for your contacts
Jun 11 20:57:23 <greenfly> somewhat handy, but I find myself opening apps more than contacts
Jun 11 20:57:25 <crashanddie> Khertan: Bon bha voila, la France est bien partie. GG Domenech, quel connard ce mec. L'equipe de france fait vraiment que de la merde. Loin du public, loin des fans, ils renient ceux qui les font exister. Bien fait pour leur gueule de faire match nul. J'espere qu'ils se font humilier ensuite.
Jun 11 20:57:35 <greenfly> it might be cool to switch the mode from searching through contacts to searching through programs
Jun 11 20:58:10 <greenfly> (or maybe do both ala gnome-do)
Jun 11 20:58:45 <crashanddie> greenfly: it would indeed be cool to have options... When you start typing, you should have a switch at the top of the window that allows to choose between contacts and apps, or a mixed mode
Jun 11 20:59:14 <crashanddie> mixed mode would display apps and contacts, a bit like spotlight does on osx
Jun 11 20:59:44 <mece> I think I'm gonna upload a new wesnoth and wesnoth-data package to devel.
Jun 11 21:01:24 <greenfly> crashanddie: yeah that would be really slick
Jun 11 21:01:58 <greenfly> one would imagine the framework is in place already for the contacts, so it would be a matter of extending it to also search a different database
Jun 11 21:02:39 <MohammadAG51> catorise can't be customized can it
Jun 11 21:03:17 <mece> MohammadAG51: nope
Jun 11 21:03:27 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
Jun 11 21:03:29 <SpeedEvil> It's open source.
Jun 11 21:03:37 <mece> SpeedEvil, hee :
Jun 11 21:03:45 <mece> s/:/:P/
Jun 11 21:03:46 <infobot> mece meant: SpeedEvil, hee :P
Jun 11 21:05:28 <mece> I wonder if it's even possible to upload 230Mb in the browser...
Jun 11 21:08:12 <MohammadAG51> hmm, how do I check statistics of an app in the repos?
Jun 11 21:08:19 <SpeedEvil> err
Jun 11 21:08:31 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/download-stats/index.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5&repo=extras
Jun 11 21:09:27 <MohammadAG51> I would've preferred numbers but... thanks :)
Jun 11 21:09:39 <SpeedEvil> note though, this is not the count of fmms users. There is only in fact one user, and there have been 250000 updates.
Jun 11 21:09:55 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 11 21:10:03 <MohammadAG51> it doesn't count updates afaik :P
Jun 11 21:10:48 <SpeedEvil> it does
Jun 11 21:10:58 <SpeedEvil> There is a way to get at the raw data, but I've forgotten it
Jun 11 21:11:05 <SpeedEvil> it's loaded by the page I think
Jun 11 21:11:30 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmms/ - correlate the above with the update times
Jun 11 21:13:08 <SpeedEvil> Ah yes
Jun 11 21:13:13 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/download-stats/fetch.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5
Jun 11 21:13:25 <mece> woo cool.
Jun 11 21:13:49 <mece> SpeedEvil, any way to get total?
Jun 11 21:14:06 <SpeedEvil> add up the second element of the duples
Jun 11 21:14:08 <SpeedEvil> err
Jun 11 21:14:13 * SpeedEvil fails.
Jun 11 21:14:18 <mece> LOL
Jun 11 21:14:23 <SpeedEvil> That's not a sane derivation from tuple, is it.
Jun 11 21:14:55 <mece> lol
Jun 11 21:15:34 <SpeedEvil> Adding them all up tells you something - but disentangling what it tells you is hard.
Jun 11 21:16:11 <mece> i wants total, dammit!
Jun 11 21:16:16 <SpeedEvil> Some work I did earlier - I'd meant to write it up properly - indicated that for example - for fmms - more users were downloading from extras-testing than extras
Jun 11 21:16:18 <vzq> any experiences with sygic navigation?
Jun 11 21:16:35 <mece> everyone uses testing..
Jun 11 21:16:49 <SpeedEvil> Updates screw those numbers, as it's hard to derive where a update comes from
Jun 11 21:16:50 <SpeedEvil> err
Jun 11 21:16:57 * mece frakking hates adsl up speed
Jun 11 21:17:03 <SpeedEvil> I mean what are new numbers.
Jun 11 21:17:15 <SpeedEvil> my DSL up speed is twice what my down is.
Jun 11 21:17:24 <SpeedEvil> my down is going at 224k ATM. :/
Jun 11 21:17:56 <SpeedEvil> mece: Not quite true - for fmms - the numbers were looking more like a third of the people were getting a version from extras.
Jun 11 21:18:27 <mece> ok..
Jun 11 21:19:29 <mece> is libboost in extras?
Jun 11 21:20:01 <SpeedEvil> dunno
Jun 11 21:21:02 <SpeedEvil> When was pr1.2?
Jun 11 21:21:12 <SpeedEvil> It seems like forever now
Jun 11 21:21:23 <SpeedEvil> mid may?
Jun 11 21:21:37 <pupnik> no more single pupnik
Jun 11 21:21:38 <pupnik> can it be....
Jun 11 21:21:55 <SpeedEvil> You've invested in some korean cloning facility
Jun 11 21:21:58 <MohammadAG51> SpeedEvil, i think it's been a year
Jun 11 21:21:59 <SpeedEvil> ?
Jun 11 21:22:06 <MohammadAG51> PR1.2
Jun 11 21:22:14 <mece> LOL
Jun 11 21:22:25 <mece> pupnik, please elaborate.
Jun 11 21:23:16 <GAN900> pupnik, what?
Jun 11 21:23:45 <derf> I finally flashed to PR1.2 yesterday.
Jun 11 21:24:11 <GAN900> derf, no OTA
Jun 11 21:24:14 <GAN900> ?
Jun 11 21:24:26 <DocScrutinizer> PR1.2 OTA shipping, << in topic, set by DocScrutinizer 2010-05-26
Jun 11 21:24:28 <derf> I couldn't even get 1.0.1 or whatever it was to go OTA.
Jun 11 21:24:42 <pupnik> met a nokia programmer guys.  she rocks in so many ways
Jun 11 21:24:50 <GAN900> pupnik, lol
Jun 11 21:25:03 <GAN900> derf, why not?
Jun 11 21:25:09 <GAN900> Space or package conflicts?
Jun 11 21:25:20 <derf> Package conflicts, I assume.
Jun 11 21:25:23 <derf> I had plenty of space.
Jun 11 21:26:02 <DocScrutinizer> still 1.1.1 here :-P
Jun 11 21:26:09 <ZogG> haha
Jun 11 21:26:12 <GAN900> derf, apt usually helps with that.
Jun 11 21:26:22 <derf> GAN900: It was pretty uninformative.
Jun 11 21:26:26 <derf> And I didn't have the time to spend on it.
Jun 11 21:27:11 <GAN900> derf, ah, I'm sorry, then. :P
Jun 11 21:27:47 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: congrats
Jun 11 21:28:01 <derf> It's okay. I don't actually use the device much, so it's not like re-flashing was as big a headache as it would've been with the N8x0.
Jun 11 21:30:09 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: less bs from me now :)
Jun 11 21:35:57 <mece> oh comeooon how long can it take?!?!?
Jun 11 21:36:09 <GAN900> derf, that's too bad.
Jun 11 21:36:32 <derf> Reflashing itself doesn't take long. Setting everything up again afterwards takes a long time.
Jun 11 21:36:36 * mece uploading 230Mb package to devel at ~80kb/s
Jun 11 21:36:49 <derf> Oh, haha.
Jun 11 21:37:19 <SpeedEvil> Can't you tell the builder to do wget as part of the process somehow?
Jun 11 21:37:24 <SpeedEvil> Stick it in a makefile
Jun 11 21:37:45 <derf> GAN900: It's always the little things. Maemo Mapper worked great on the N8x0. Mappero is still unusable. There's probably alternatives, but it's easier to just keep using my N810.
Jun 11 21:37:45 <MohammadAG51> or debian/rules
Jun 11 21:37:46 <mece> SpeedEvil, no idea. I don't speak "builder"
Jun 11 21:37:54 * MohammadAG51 does
Jun 11 21:38:00 <mece> DEBIAN RULES!!!
Jun 11 21:38:03 <mece> :)
Jun 11 21:38:15 <derf> The battery on my N900 also runs down in just a few hours, and I haven't had time to figure out why.
Jun 11 21:38:26 <derf> It seems to still do it after reflashing, too.
Jun 11 21:38:53 <vldcnst> derf: same thing here.
Jun 11 21:39:05 <MohammadAG51> maybe it's cause it's like that out of the box
Jun 11 21:39:26 <MohammadAG51> i know it's a pain in the arse, but I modded a bullet belt into a battery belt
Jun 11 21:39:35 <mece> craaaaaaap!
Jun 11 21:39:38 <MohammadAG51> terrorism with a twist ^
Jun 11 21:39:43 * mece forgot to add the bugtracker link
Jun 11 21:39:59 <MohammadAG51> mece watcha packaging
Jun 11 21:40:07 <vldcnst> But I also suspect that the epoxy I used to secure the micro-usb is a tiny bit conductive, and I may have some leaks there.
Jun 11 21:40:08 <mece> MohammadAG51, wesnoth data
Jun 11 21:40:09 <derf> I mean, even with the battery half-dead, my N810 lasts for days if I don't put it on a network.
Jun 11 21:40:13 <derf> The N900, not so much.
Jun 11 21:40:15 <MohammadAG51> riiiight
Jun 11 21:40:32 <MohammadAG51> doesn't the N810 have a 1500 BL-4P?
Jun 11 21:40:42 <SpeedEvil> My n900 will last for over 4 days idle connected to the network
Jun 11 21:40:47 <derf> But I just use the N900 as a development platform, so I don't really have a problem leaving it plugged in all the time.
Jun 11 21:41:03 <mece> MohammadAG51: thought I might push wesnoth and fheroes2 to testing, and see what happens :)
Jun 11 21:41:17 <derf> SpeedEvil: Right. Mine's lucky to do 8 hours off the network, no bluetooth, no GPS, no SIM card at all.
Jun 11 21:41:18 <mece> MohammadAG51: but kinda pointless when the whole bugtracker field is missing..
Jun 11 21:41:19 <MohammadAG51> mece I'll send you a gift
Jun 11 21:41:26 <MohammadAG51> an armed nuke
Jun 11 21:41:34 <mece> MohammadAG51: umm?
Jun 11 21:41:35 <GAN900> Ugh
Jun 11 21:41:42 <GAN900> Restart to fix the stupid slowness
Jun 11 21:41:58 <mece> MohammadAG51: I'm a pacifist, so I'd rather just take legos. But thanks
Jun 11 21:42:00 <GAN900> derf, that sounds wrong.
Jun 11 21:42:01 * MohammadAG51 reboots himself
Jun 11 21:42:16 <SpeedEvil> derf: in offline mode?
Jun 11 21:42:51 <derf> I don't know what "offline mode" is.
Jun 11 21:43:06 <mece> derf, that sounds wrong. I get ~14 of normal use, always online
Jun 11 21:43:12 <SpeedEvil> press the power button
Jun 11 21:43:18 <SpeedEvil> select 'offline mode'
Jun 11 21:43:27 <SpeedEvil> It means 'turn all the transmitters off. Really'
Jun 11 21:43:43 <MohammadAG51> mece, you're special
Jun 11 21:43:54 <mece> MohammadAG51: I like to think so.
Jun 11 21:43:56 <MohammadAG51> I use up e batteries a day
Jun 11 21:44:02 <MohammadAG51> 3 even
Jun 11 21:44:07 <derf> SpeedEvil: Okay. I'll try it. But I certainly don't get anything like what mece claims.
Jun 11 21:44:37 <SpeedEvil> And yes - I'm seeing numbers like meces.
Jun 11 21:44:44 <derf> I'm sure you are. I am not.
Jun 11 21:44:48 <SpeedEvil> ~24 hours mp3, ...
Jun 11 21:44:58 <SpeedEvil> I'm not disbelieving you.
Jun 11 21:47:04 <derf> I got as far as, "You should use powertop!" "apt-cache search powertop returns nothing," and then I gave up.
Jun 11 21:48:50 <SpeedEvil> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333
Jun 11 21:48:53 <SpeedEvil> downlaod that zip
Jun 11 21:48:58 <SpeedEvil> Unzip
Jun 11 21:49:03 <SpeedEvil> put powertop in /usr/local/bin
Jun 11 21:49:07 <SpeedEvil> chmod +x
Jun 11 21:49:10 <SpeedEvil> enjoy
Jun 11 21:49:28 <SpeedEvil> I'm in the middle of writing a shinier awesomer powertop, but it's not ready.
Jun 11 21:50:24 <derf> Yeah, that poster is right. I never would have done all of that.
Jun 11 21:52:28 <SpeedEvil> It used to be in the default distribution
Jun 11 21:52:56 <derf> But that would have been too useful?
Jun 11 21:53:09 <derf> And, of course, there's no unzip on the device.
Jun 11 21:56:20 <derf> Oh, nice, it segfaults, too.
Jun 11 21:56:37 <SpeedEvil> unzip is in the tools repo
Jun 11 21:56:50 <derf> In theory I have the tools repo enabled.
Jun 11 21:57:11 <derf> deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle-update2/tools free non-free
Jun 11 21:57:27 <derf> Unless that's not really supposed to be -update2?
Jun 11 21:59:49 <mece> unzip is in devel too I think.
Jun 11 21:59:54 <SpeedEvil> http://qkwv.com/powertop.exe
Jun 11 22:00:03 <SpeedEvil> there - no need to unzip - that's the one I'm using ATM
Jun 11 22:00:18 <derf> No, I mean, I just unzipped it on the host and ssh'd it over.
Jun 11 22:00:21 <derf> I was just bitching.
Jun 11 22:00:43 <derf> mece: I'm really trying not to keep devel enabled... not just all the rootfs space it chews up, but it seemed to regularly break things.
Jun 11 22:01:10 <derf> Like, say, OTA updates. Or, oh hai, everything's now being built against PR1.2. What do you mean 1.2's not out yet? That's not our problem.
Jun 11 22:01:31 <mece> derf, heh yeah.
Jun 11 22:01:44 <mece> derf, then again flashing takes 2 minutes
Jun 11 22:01:59 <derf> As I said, flashing is not the hard part.
Jun 11 22:03:19 <mece> ok trying wesnoth-data again. man I hope it works.
Jun 11 22:04:03 <mece> aw fuck... according to my math-fu it should take almost an hour!
Jun 11 22:04:11 <Arkenoi> Have you ever seen "fatal" cellular network errors? Ones that prevent phone from even _trying_ to estabilish data connection until you force it to re-register? Why the F phones grant this bullshit instead of ignoring it? n900 included. Seen that on busy networks quite frequently
Jun 11 22:04:48 <mece> anyone feel like helping me setup the other method of upping to extras?
Jun 11 22:07:10 <SpeedEvil> post x-fade a DVD?
Jun 11 22:07:18 <mece> ?
Jun 11 22:07:32 <SpeedEvil>  the other method of upping to extras?
Jun 11 22:07:49 * satmd has
Jun 11 22:07:54 <satmd> but not on the tablets
Jun 11 22:08:09 * satmd does building security
Jun 11 22:08:21 <satmd> it sucked when the phone didn't ring on an incident
Jun 11 22:08:25 <mece> question, if I do scp from within scratchbox, I need to generate ssh key inside scratchbox?
Jun 11 22:08:45 <satmd> mece: keys can be generated anywhere
Jun 11 22:08:56 <satmd> they just need to be copied to the appropiate places
Jun 11 22:13:36 <crashanddie> this is just fucking sick. This woman needs to be put down: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6584WO20100609
Jun 11 22:14:34 <tripzero> heh, i'm glad that didn't load... i saw the title and decided to close the window :P
Jun 11 22:16:51 <mece> in the public key field in garage account maintenance, should the words ssh-rsa be included?
Jun 11 22:18:26 <lcukx200> evening #maemo \o
Jun 11 22:18:37 <lbt> o/
Jun 11 22:19:12 <satmd> crashanddie: best to deal with, not giving her the attention that motivates her :P
Jun 11 22:20:39 <mece> lcukx200, hell-o
Jun 11 22:25:25 <mece> GAaaaHH
Jun 11 22:25:49 <mece> Permission denied (publickey). Lost connection. <- makes me wanna do drugs.
Jun 11 22:29:33 <lcukx200> hiya mece
Jun 11 22:29:38 <mece> hey.
Jun 11 22:29:48 <mece> what's x200?
Jun 11 22:30:03 <lcukx200> lenovo laptop
Jun 11 22:31:10 <Macer> realized that i can survive with 2 desktops
Jun 11 22:31:59 <luke-jr> Andetigo Subyrame Nikohuvy Lapofyton
Jun 11 22:33:15 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: now you need a new passphrase :-P
Jun 11 22:33:28 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: that would be a terrible passphrase
Jun 11 22:33:33 <mece> LOL
Jun 11 22:33:34 <lcukx200> im thinking he forgot his meds
Jun 11 22:33:51 <luke-jr> n00bs
Jun 11 22:33:55 <DocScrutinizer> hope they are strong enough
Jun 11 22:34:04 <luke-jr> an de ti go su by ra me ni ko hu vy la po fy ton
Jun 11 22:34:07 <luke-jr> the digits :p
Jun 11 22:34:41 <DocScrutinizer> *cough*
Jun 11 22:35:04 <DocScrutinizer> wait, there's a medical term for that...
Jun 11 22:35:38 <luke-jr> I'm studying -.-
Jun 11 22:35:40 <DocScrutinizer> there's even a Dr.House about it ;-D
Jun 11 22:35:59 <mece> so.. can someone tell me how I run firefox on a remote computer that I have ssh access to? that's doable right. on linux.
Jun 11 22:36:01 <luke-jr> http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tonal-system/10991090
Jun 11 22:36:12 <DocScrutinizer> or was it Monk?
Jun 11 22:36:17 <luke-jr> mece: ssh -X remotecomputer firefox
Jun 11 22:36:36 <mece> luke-jr, ok thanks. will try that.
Jun 11 22:36:42 <luke-jr> mece: unless you want it to appear on the local display
Jun 11 22:37:03 <luke-jr> in that case, you need to be logged in locally, ssh, and run: DISPLAY=:0 firefox &
Jun 11 22:37:07 <luke-jr> assuming your local display is :0
Jun 11 22:37:17 <mece> luke-jr, umm..
Jun 11 22:37:19 <nextime> mece : you need also X11Forwarding enabled on the ssh server side
Jun 11 22:37:31 <mece> ok I have no idea.
Jun 11 22:37:36 <mece> so what did the first one do?
Jun 11 22:37:50 <luke-jr> mece: option A, more common, is to run the app on RemoteHost while it displays on the computer you connect from
Jun 11 22:37:57 <mece> I need to see use firefox on the other computer, that is physically far away.
Jun 11 22:38:02 <luke-jr> so Firefox would be running on RemoteHost, but you would see the window in front on you
Jun 11 22:38:10 <lcukx200> mece, get bonoculars
Jun 11 22:38:15 <lcukx200> and a long stick to operate the keyboard
Jun 11 22:38:18 <mece> I want to upload via firefox from the remote computer (which has super fast internet)
Jun 11 22:38:21 <luke-jr> option B, Firefox both runs remotely, and displays on the monitor connected to the remote machine
Jun 11 22:38:29 <mece> lcukx200, it's 10 km
Jun 11 22:38:30 <luke-jr> mece: ok, go with ssh -X then
Jun 11 22:38:44 <lcukx200> mece, \sbinoculars\telescope\
Jun 11 22:38:47 <luke-jr> unless you want to physically go to the other computer to use it
Jun 11 22:38:51 <lcukx200> or whatever the syntax is
Jun 11 22:38:53 <nextime> lcukx200 : maybe a good meade or celestron 14" telescope is better :)
Jun 11 22:39:11 <luke-jr> lcukx200: fail
Jun 11 22:39:33 <lcukx200> not really luke-jr at least you recognised what i was trying to do :p
Jun 11 22:40:19 <mece> hmm.. nothing much is happening..
Jun 11 22:40:35 <luke-jr> http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tonal-system/10991090
Jun 11 22:40:38 <luke-jr> study tonal with me
Jun 11 22:40:40 <luke-jr> :D
Jun 11 22:40:52 <lcukx200> i found it already on wikipedia
Jun 11 22:41:02 <jperez26> hey eveyrone
Jun 11 22:41:08 <jperez26> quick question
Jun 11 22:41:23 <jperez26> i wanted to know about starup scripts
Jun 11 22:41:32 <derf> SpeedEvil: Total wakeups: 2803, 93.4/s.
Jun 11 22:41:34 <jperez26> *startup
Jun 11 22:41:47 <derf> That seems like an awful lot for a device in Offline Mode doing nothing but running powertop.
Jun 11 22:42:20 <lcukx200> derf whats taking the time
Jun 11 22:43:12 <derf> tick_nohz_restart_sched_tick (tick_sched_timer)
Jun 11 22:43:13 <luke-jr> lcukx200: really? how?
Jun 11 22:43:16 <jperez26> looking to have the x composition manager run at startup
Jun 11 22:43:16 <derf> Which is, you know, not really informative.
Jun 11 22:43:24 <luke-jr> I didn't think I gave enough info to find it on wikipedia XD
Jun 11 22:43:53 <lcukx200> luke-jr, your first delirium came up empty, but your second managed to find something relating to the author
Jun 11 22:44:05 <lcukx200> but it offered alternative suggestions on the spelling
Jun 11 22:44:40 <luke-jr> aha
Jun 11 22:46:43 * DocScrutinizer defines this chan to be esperanto-only for lcuk
Jun 11 22:46:51 <DocScrutinizer> err luke-jr
Jun 11 22:47:16 <DocScrutinizer> only alternative allowed: inuktitut
Jun 11 22:47:22 <derf> If I unplug the device, it goes down to 708, or 23.6/s.
Jun 11 22:47:25 <derf> Which is still an awful lot.
Jun 11 22:48:39 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: but please inuktitut on base16 then
Jun 11 22:50:06 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: ?
Jun 11 22:52:13 <DocScrutinizer> '?' % 16 != 0; invalid char! XP
Jun 11 22:53:33 <satmd> XP's fault :p
Jun 11 22:58:51 <mece> aw fuck.. ok so this -X think is not working. I'll just use elinks
Jun 11 23:00:18 <DocScrutinizer> wget?
Jun 11 23:03:41 <DocScrutinizer> Imean in the end odds are your remote browser on that lighning fast box also delegates to wget for any download. So why not use it directly?
Jun 11 23:10:47 * vldcnst dances around. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGuFn0RPgaE
Jun 11 23:15:18 <luke-jr> mece: maybe try -Y
Jun 11 23:18:38 <mece> luke-jr, what does -Y do?
Jun 11 23:19:12 <mece> using lynx, seems to work. I think. Atleast it's waiting for a respons at the upload dialogue.. takes a while for it to upload 230Mb I suppose, even if it is 100Mbps
Jun 11 23:19:40 <mece> is there a good way to see if there is traffic on the server?
Jun 11 23:20:38 <luke-jr> mece: -X, but less secure
Jun 11 23:22:30 <satmd> iirc it omits the cookie part of remote x11
Jun 11 23:27:31 <luke-jr> satmd: I think you recall wrong
Jun 11 23:27:51 <luke-jr> IIRC merely -X filters the protocol stream to known "safe" things
Jun 11 23:28:00 <luke-jr> so you shouldn't have a remote system trying to take over your WM and such
Jun 11 23:28:09 <satmd> hm
Jun 11 23:28:24 <satmd> yeah, probably
Jun 11 23:28:58 <mece> 2:30 in the morning. damn. I need to get up in about 5 hours. Sigh.
Jun 11 23:28:59 <mece> heey..
Jun 11 23:29:08 <mece> -Y worked!
Jun 11 23:30:46 <mece> thanks luke-jr
Jun 11 23:31:18 <mece> ok let's see how fast this computer can send 230Mb to maemo.org..
Jun 11 23:31:59 <mece> the problem might also have been that there was an instance of firefox running.
Jun 11 23:32:34 <mece> upload error, no repository selected. Wtf?
Jun 11 23:33:18 <mece> hmm wasn't a very long time. I think there is a size limit. Fine. I give up.
Jun 11 23:33:20 <mece> good night.
Jun 11 23:33:50 <mece> if I could get that stupid gaddamn ssh key thing to work it would be soooo easy.
Jun 12 00:07:12 <DocScrutinizer> znc anybody?
Jun 12 00:20:12 <woglinde> jo
Jun 12 00:22:32 <DocScrutinizer> woglinde: [464] Invalid Password Invalid
Jun 12 00:23:00 <DocScrutinizer> what is the correct way to connect to znc?
Jun 12 00:23:33 <woglinde> what?
Jun 12 00:23:36 <woglinde> what is zbc?
Jun 12 00:23:42 <woglinde> ups znc
Jun 12 00:24:09 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, thought your "jo" was an answer to my query
Jun 12 00:24:17 <woglinde> lol
Jun 12 00:24:19 <woglinde> no
Jun 12 00:24:35 <woglinde> which query btw.?
Jun 12 00:24:43 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-06-12 02:07:11] <DocScrutinizer> znc anybody?
Jun 12 00:25:08 <woglinde> wasnt here at this stage
Jun 12 00:25:24 <DocScrutinizer> nvm
Jun 12 00:26:09 <DocScrutinizer> (irc bouncer - just if you're curious)
Jun 12 00:26:15 <woglinde> hm oh
Jun 12 00:26:23 <woglinde> I dont use the stuff
Jun 12 01:19:01 <flailingmonkey> hi
Jun 12 01:19:28 <DocScrutinizer51> lo
Jun 12 01:21:38 <DocScrutinizer51> flailingmonkey: wazzup?
Jun 12 01:23:44 <DocScrutinizer51> ~status
Jun 12 01:23:44 <infobot> Since Fri Jun 11 13:08:26 2010, there have been 6 modifications, 50 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 38 commands.  I have been awake for 12h 15m 18s this session, and currently reference 0 factoids.  I'm using about 19464 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 1316.63/75.18 child 0.13/0.09
Jun 12 01:24:46 <flailingmonkey> going to make a wiki page to collect some possible ways we might package and release updates to software that falls under the "firmware" releases
Jun 12 01:25:04 <flailingmonkey> did mece get that filemanager package working?
Jun 12 01:26:24 <DocScrutinizer51> dunno
Jun 12 01:31:19 <Termana> good morning
Jun 12 01:39:22 <DocScrutinizer51> mo
Jun 12 01:42:28 <CutMeOwnThroat> no morons at all?
Jun 12 01:42:54 <DocScrutinizer> moron-ing
Jun 12 02:26:19 <scibotic> Hi, I've been out of the loop for a while and I was wondering what the recommended firmware for n800 users is?
Jun 12 02:26:46 <scibotic> I got a mobile phone I want to tether too and I figure I might as well take advantage of the larger screen for browsing.
Jun 12 02:31:38 <scibotic> Also most stable browser?
Jun 12 02:32:40 <Milhouse> http://maemo.org/news/ broken?
Jun 12 02:32:49 <Milhouse> blank page here in FF and Opera
Jun 12 02:32:58 <vldcnst> Milhouse: negative
Jun 12 02:33:10 <Milhouse> how odd
Jun 12 02:33:48 <luke-jr> scibotic: N800 is pretty dead IMO :)
Jun 12 02:34:02 <luke-jr> scibotic: but Gentoo does run on it
Jun 12 02:34:09 <Milhouse> just tried it on FF Ubuntu (diff machine, obviously) and same - what is my ISP up to...
Jun 12 02:34:54 <luke-jr> Milhouse: Maemo is dead, too
Jun 12 02:35:04 <Milhouse> ok, so you have problems too?
Jun 12 02:35:18 <luke-jr> it's a blank page
Jun 12 02:35:23 <luke-jr> what more do you want from a dead project?
Jun 12 02:35:28 <luke-jr> especially a news URI
Jun 12 02:35:33 <Milhouse> i can access maemo.org, for me it's only maemo.org/news/ that is blank
Jun 12 02:36:02 <luke-jr> news implies new
Jun 12 02:36:09 <Milhouse> well maybe a blank news page is an accurate reflection... :)
Jun 12 02:46:09 <scibotic> luke-jr, So all about the MeeGo train then?
Jun 12 02:46:12 <scibotic> aboard*
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 12 02:59:56 2010