**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 13 02:59:56 2010
Jun 13 03:22:42 <ds3> I see
Jun 13 03:23:16 <ds3> would recommendation be to do a verbatim backup and fiasco flash or to deinstall apps one  by one til it takes an OTA upgrade?
Jun 13 03:27:14 <ech0Asus> ahhhh wtf
Jun 13 05:08:55 <shorter> does gps not work without a sim card or something?
Jun 13 05:09:54 <shorter> the satellite thing just blinks - does it not work very well or is mine broken or soemthing?
Jun 13 05:41:31 <swc|666> shorter, maybe disable the network positioning checkbox from Settings > Location .. not sure if that will fix it
Jun 13 05:43:57 <shorter> is there a good compass emulator for n900?
Jun 13 05:44:36 <shorter> also, is there a way to have the pkgmanager not have to reload everything everytime you install a new app or change the repositories?
Jun 13 05:49:57 <shorter> swc|666: I don't see things settings parameter in Maps...
Jun 13 05:50:52 <swc|666> shorter, in the actual Maemo Settings > Location
Jun 13 05:51:44 <swc|666> shorter, i don't know about the pkgmanager, i use apt from terminal to install stuff
Jun 13 05:52:27 <shorter> how do you browse apps?
Jun 13 05:52:42 <shorter> i mean, just looking for new things etc
Jun 13 05:52:43 <swc|666> apt-cache search
Jun 13 05:53:03 <swc|666> i generally know what i want to install
Jun 13 05:53:08 <shorter> ah, I guess I could use the regular pkg manager to browser and then apt to isntall
Jun 13 05:54:54 <shorter> what is this network positioning thing?
Jun 13 05:55:35 <shorter> the satellite is still blinking, and in Maps it has a line through it
Jun 13 06:54:47 <digitalsurgeon> any newbie guide to packaging ?
Jun 13 07:37:06 <macbeth8c> hi I need help
Jun 13 07:37:26 <macbeth8c> I have device N900
Jun 13 07:37:46 <macbeth8c> I have connected to wireless network with the password
Jun 13 07:38:15 <macbeth8c> is there a way to remove the password from the device memory now when I disconnected it?
Jun 13 07:38:23 <macbeth8c> it was borrowed I need to give it back
Jun 13 07:42:15 <macbeth8c> ok nevermind
Jun 13 07:42:18 <macbeth8c> ;-)
Jun 13 07:46:17 <macbeth8c> how to off the device??
Jun 13 07:50:16 <psycho_oreos> press and hold the power button?
Jun 13 07:50:40 <RST38h> Anyone knows how I can use textures in GLES?
Jun 13 07:50:46 <macbeth8c> psycho_oreos,  the small one?
Jun 13 07:50:58 <psycho_oreos> macbeth8c, yes the small one, in the middle
Jun 13 07:50:58 <Venemo> macbeth8c: App menu / settings / connectivity / connections -> remove the wifi in question
Jun 13 07:51:03 <RST38h> The approach shown in the examples on the web does not work
Jun 13 07:51:41 <macbeth8c> psycho_oreos, Im pressing like 30 sec and nothing
Jun 13 07:51:57 <macbeth8c> and when I press once the button menu appears
Jun 13 07:52:09 <psycho_oreos> macbeth8c, ok then hit turn off the device
Jun 13 07:52:11 <shorter> I wonder how hard it would be to port an app like xcalib to maemo - It would be really cool to be able to invert the display
Jun 13 07:52:16 <macbeth8c> there is an item switch off! when I choose it nothing happenning
Jun 13 07:52:22 <shorter> can any maemo pdf readers invert, btw?
Jun 13 07:52:34 <psycho_oreos> normally pressing and holding the power button the device should turn off, but there is probably some app that is hanging and needs to be forcefully shut down
Jun 13 07:52:51 <macbeth8c> psycho_oreos, how to check it?
Jun 13 07:53:48 <psycho_oreos> macbeth8c, rather than going about checking it, I'd suggest opening up terminal, gain root access and then type in poweroff
Jun 13 07:54:06 <macbeth8c> ok I'll try
Jun 13 07:54:30 <psycho_oreos> macbeth8c, should be lot faster than figuring out the culprit process which might happen to be zombified
Jun 13 07:54:40 <macbeth8c> ok done thanks psycho_oreos
Jun 13 07:54:44 <macbeth8c> :-)
Jun 13 07:54:51 <psycho_oreos> macbeth8c, no worries
Jun 13 07:57:06 <macbeth8c> psycho_oreos, do you know how to get the sim card out?
Jun 13 07:57:13 <macbeth8c> Im trying to open the cover
Jun 13 07:57:37 <psycho_oreos> macbeth8c, there's online user manual that shows you how to do it
Jun 13 07:57:49 <psycho_oreos> or even the manual that comes with the device
Jun 13 07:58:09 <macbeth8c> I dont have the one that comes with device, its borrowed
Jun 13 07:59:35 <psycho_oreos> http://nds1.nokia.com/phones/files/guides/Nokia_N900_UG_en.pdf
Jun 13 08:00:00 <shorter> any ideas on how to invert the display or change background color for reading documents?
Jun 13 08:01:07 <eternal197> quick question for anyone here, attempting to get video calls with skype working, however before i begin i've noticed the front camera quality has decreased severely in pr1.2, anyone else noticed this/ know whats happened?
Jun 13 08:01:53 <macbeth8c> ok psycho_oreos I red it - no button pressing ;-)
Jun 13 08:02:41 <Venemo> eternal197: for me, it is increased
Jun 13 08:02:54 <Venemo> however, it is still very bad
Jun 13 08:03:13 <Venemo> it somehow doesn't compensate for light conditions correctly
Jun 13 08:04:37 <eternal197> hmmm perhaps thats what i'm noticing, as i am in a fairly dimly lit room
Jun 13 08:05:09 <macbeth8c> psycho_oreos, thank you I got it out :)
Jun 13 08:05:16 <eternal197> Venemo: anything special about the way you updated to pr1.2, something I might have missed that might be my issue?
Jun 13 08:05:38 <Venemo> I reflashed eMMC then rootfs
Jun 13 08:06:08 <Venemo> for me, in bright sunlight, its picture is WAY too light and washed out
Jun 13 08:06:25 <Venemo> in artificial lighting conditions, it is barely even visible
Jun 13 08:06:51 <Venemo> but in PR 1.1, it was even worse... :(
Jun 13 08:07:15 <digitalsurgeon> how can i get rid of this error: Packaging Error: Command 'dh_shlibdeps' failed. Output was: c:\nokiaqtsdk\maemo\4.6.2\madbin\dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: couldn't find library libqtflickr.so.0 needed by debian/easywallpapers/usr/local/bin/EasyWallpapers (its RPATH is 'C:/usr/lib'). Note: libraries are not searched in other binary packages that do not have any shlibs or symbols file. To help dpkg-shlibdeps find private libraries, you might need to set LD_LIB
Jun 13 08:07:23 <digitalsurgeon> i am using the Nokia Qt SDK RC 1.0
Jun 13 08:07:28 <digitalsurgeon> on Win 7
Jun 13 08:07:37 <digitalsurgeon> and trying to make a package for the n900
Jun 13 08:08:00 <Venemo> digitalsurgeon: ask this on #qt-maemo channel
Jun 13 08:08:23 <digitalsurgeon> thanks
Jun 13 08:08:24 <Venemo> you will more likely get a correct answer in there
Jun 13 08:08:41 <psycho_oreos> swc|666, ping!
Jun 13 08:10:10 <swc|666> psycho_oreos, pong
Jun 13 08:10:16 <psycho_oreos> swc|666, pm?
Jun 13 08:10:30 <swc|666> psycho_oreos, of course
Jun 13 08:24:09 <dr34m> hm anybody knows if there will be support for endomondo.com on the n900 ?
Jun 13 08:38:49 <lbt> lcuk: ping
Jun 13 08:41:15 <lbt> meeting up in Helsinki tonight? http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Eerikinkatu+24,%20Helsinki  at about 6pm local time
Jun 13 08:42:15 <Ken-Young> ping MohammadAG51
Jun 13 08:43:13 <timeless> lbt: hrm
Jun 13 08:43:27 <timeless> a couple of us are doing stuff early
Jun 13 08:43:58 <timeless> if your plans fit, we might be able to squeeze them in
Jun 13 08:44:32 <lbt> we're just going for a drink/meal
Jun 13 08:47:17 <timeless> lbt: so.. you in town for an extended interval?
Jun 13 08:47:37 <timeless> lunch tomorrow could be more +interesting people
Jun 13 08:48:34 <lbt> just our regular 1day team meeting
Jun 13 08:48:58 <lbt> we're too ad-hoc to plan lunches reliably
Jun 13 08:50:43 <Jaffa> Bah. Easy week for MWKN - only one submission.
Jun 13 08:51:32 <Stskeeps> frals, ping
Jun 13 08:58:18 <lbt> Jaffa: http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder
Jun 13 08:59:43 <Jaffa> lbt: Oooh, MeeGo Core as well as Fremantle
Jun 13 09:00:03 <lbt> that was the idea :)
Jun 13 09:00:11 <lbt> and it built last night
Jun 13 09:00:30 <lbt> I'm meeting Tero and Niels tomorrow
Jun 13 09:00:37 <lbt> HW is "in the US"
Jun 13 09:00:44 <lbt> scoop!!
Jun 13 09:00:57 <lbt> however...
Jun 13 09:01:22 <lbt> Tero isn't sure that we should 'launch' the community OBS as a single entity doing both MeeGo and Maemo
Jun 13 09:01:39 <lbt> so don't overblow that idea in MWKN
Jun 13 09:02:03 <Jaffa> lbt: No, of course not. Having continuity for long standing Maemo contributors is just plain crazy. MeeGo should continue its scorched earth policy with everything maemo.org related.
Jun 13 09:02:05 <lbt> (although I'm working on persuading him... so subtle "wouldn't it be good if")
Jun 13 09:02:13 <lbt> ROFL
Jun 13 09:02:21 <lbt> or you could say that
Jun 13 09:02:27 * Jaffa 'll try for subtle ;-)
Jun 13 09:02:42 <lbt> actually....
Jun 13 09:02:59 * lbt wonders about an anonymoud coward comment...
Jun 13 09:04:18 <lbt> see if you can editorialise.... a community quote "whoul would like to remain anonymous "
Jun 13 09:04:25 * lbt must pack
Jun 13 09:11:06 <RST38h> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7147910.ece
Jun 13 09:11:08 <RST38h> ehehe
Jun 13 09:29:16 <pancake> is nokia planning to release the GSM support of n900 for ofono some day?
Jun 13 09:30:29 <alterego> It's already available.
Jun 13 09:36:16 <pancake> voice and data?
Jun 13 09:37:42 <alterego> presumably, as that's what they're using in meego
Jun 13 09:38:12 <pancake> oh, will check that
Jun 13 09:38:15 <pancake> thanks
Jun 13 10:13:48 <LiraNuna> is Nokia releasing GPL code for the N900 modem?
Jun 13 10:13:51 <LiraNuna> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50763
Jun 13 10:14:09 <LiraNuna> "Our adaptation guys are in fact contributing those modem subsystem related drivers as we speak, and if you are following kernel mailing lists you can see how that goes on."
Jun 13 10:18:06 * nextime is thinking to write a maemo MUA from scratch using python 
Jun 13 10:19:46 <SpeedEvil> The actuall modem code will never be released. The interaction code - possibly.
Jun 13 10:22:10 <LiraNuna> SpeedEvil, what chip is it?
Jun 13 10:22:18 <SpeedEvil> ?
Jun 13 10:22:20 <SpeedEvil> oh
Jun 13 10:22:34 <SpeedEvil> It's some nokia part developed with IP from TI
Jun 13 10:22:52 <LiraNuna> blah, TI again
Jun 13 10:23:57 <SpeedEvil> http://www.visualcv.com/fgoeusse
Jun 13 10:26:58 * LiraNuna sends rockets
Jun 13 10:42:59 <alterego> bleugh, TI, bluergh
Jun 13 10:43:22 <nextime> it is better to use hildon or pyside to write a python application on maemo right now?
Jun 13 10:43:28 <alterego> I wish Imagination would just open their friggin' drivers, or specs :)
Jun 13 10:44:28 <alterego> nextime: that kind of depends on whether you wan yor app to function with minimal modification on the next device or the community edition of MeeGo/Harmattan for the N900
Jun 13 10:45:32 <alterego> nextime: hildon is probably a bit easier as PySide has a tendancy to segfault on poor reference counting implementation ..
Jun 13 10:45:39 <nextime> alterego: i will happy to see it work with meego too (or a fork from maemo who hope will be annunced by the community in future as i don't like meego )
Jun 13 10:45:59 <nextime> but for the moment it is importat that it can have a good integration with the maemo5 gui
Jun 13 10:46:08 <alterego> nextime: you don't like MeeGo? it's not even out yet! :P
Jun 13 10:46:36 <nextime> alterego : yep, but the lose of the "debian like base" in meego is, for me, a bad thing
Jun 13 10:46:48 <alterego> nextime: my app is Qt, there should be no UI look&feel issues if that's what you mean :P
Jun 13 10:46:56 <nextime> as i'm a debian fanatic and this is one of the most important things that make me choice an n900
Jun 13 10:46:57 <nextime> :D
Jun 13 10:47:23 <nextime> s/choice/choose
Jun 13 10:47:27 <alterego> nextime: I feel your pain there, I'm an avid debian user myself, but, it's still Linux and the differences are mostly cosmetic :P
Jun 13 10:48:29 <nextime> alterego : it isn't cosmetic. I have my own debian reposiitory, i have set of personal tools to manage db packages. I don't like the need to start another set with rpm packages.
Jun 13 10:48:30 <alterego> There was alk of a debian based MeeGo instance, I'd like to see that continue :)
Jun 13 10:49:02 * MohammadAG51 hates rpm
Jun 13 10:49:46 <alterego> nextime: sure, but it can all be done with rpms too, it's not the end of the world and tbh, the benifits of what MeeGo will bring to embedded Linux far out weight debian fanatacism :)
Jun 13 10:50:22 <alterego> MohammadAG51: for technical reasons? Or just fanboism :P
Jun 13 10:50:29 <MohammadAG51> alterego, benefits? what benefits?
Jun 13 10:50:44 <MohammadAG51> technical reasons - it's fsc*ing slow
Jun 13 10:50:51 <alterego> MohammadAG51: common open infrastructure and framework.
Jun 13 10:50:58 <nextime> alterego : i know that all can be done with rpm. I don't say that deb is better or rpm is better. I say that i ALREADY have a lot of tools that i use for my personal needs on ALL my platforms, and i hate to be pushed to another package system cause of the "duplication" of the work
Jun 13 10:51:05 <nextime> this is my point
Jun 13 10:51:11 <MohammadAG51> well, I don't see any open apps being fixed
Jun 13 10:51:18 <alterego> indeed.
Jun 13 10:51:37 <alterego> MohammadAG51: ?
Jun 13 10:52:01 <alterego> regardless, it's sad, but it's the future :P
Jun 13 10:52:03 <MohammadAG51> alterego, take modest or HAM, both need fixes, that should be quie easy, but.. nothing
Jun 13 10:52:22 <MohammadAG51> I'm not complaining btw, just pointing it out
Jun 13 10:52:30 <alterego> I think HAM is being relaced?
Jun 13 10:52:39 <alterego> and it's not MeeGo :P
Jun 13 10:52:40 <MohammadAG51> relaced?
Jun 13 10:52:47 <alterego> replaced ...
Jun 13 10:52:54 <nextime> MohammadAG51 : i'm starting just now to write an alternative to modest :)
Jun 13 10:53:07 <alterego> Sorry I tend to type scht on the N900 in IRC for some reason. :)
Jun 13 10:53:28 <MohammadAG51> nextime, why not fix modest, a lot of use IMAP IDLE (nokia messaging)
Jun 13 10:53:47 <nextime> MohammadAG51 : cause there are so many things i don't like in modest
Jun 13 10:53:48 <MohammadAG51> of us* use
Jun 13 10:54:08 <nextime> MohammadAG51 : anyway, my point is to have a great support on imap-idle
Jun 13 10:54:29 <nextime> MohammadAG51 : and. modest actually DOESN'T support imap idle for real.
Jun 13 10:55:03 <MohammadAG51> I know, it's quite shitty :P
Jun 13 10:55:59 <nextime> MohammadAG51 : basically i'm thinking about make a bindings library on mutt for python, and write in this way a gui frontend for maemo over mutt
Jun 13 10:56:54 <alterego> Are there no good mail handling libraries available already?
Jun 13 10:57:03 <alterego> Like, standard Linux ones?
Jun 13 10:57:24 <nextime> alterego : there are a lot good libraries, but mutt is the best mua in my opinion
Jun 13 10:57:24 <alterego> Is there a libmutt? :)
Jun 13 10:57:55 <alterego> nextime: I thought you were writing an mua, wrapping mutt seems a bit ugly :/
Jun 13 10:58:40 <nextime> alterego: i'm just doing some preliminar research, the two possible ways are one mua from scratch or a mutt frontend
Jun 13 10:58:57 <nextime> i want to have a very complete and good mua but i hope to reach the goal in less time i can
Jun 13 10:59:07 <alterego> MohammadAG51: I've come up with another app idea, I think it'll be quite cool if I do it write, and I definitely think you'd be interested in it. Though it's a sizeable project.
Jun 13 10:59:10 <nextime> so, i'm investigating which one of those two is the most rapid
Jun 13 10:59:29 * MohammadAG51 gulps
Jun 13 10:59:44 <MohammadAG51> alterego, what is it :)
Jun 13 11:00:19 <alterego> Heh, I want to write a UI that allows you to attach dbus signals to method invokations.
Jun 13 11:00:30 <alterego> with some rudimentary scripting maybe.
Jun 13 11:00:41 <SpeedEvil> zenity+sh
Jun 13 11:00:48 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, Germany vs australia @ 7:30, bolt the door :P
Jun 13 11:01:05 <MohammadAG51> read that as attack dbus
Jun 13 11:01:09 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Jun 13 11:01:12 <DocScrutinizer> :-(
Jun 13 11:01:22 <alterego> Basically, I want a user to be able to "wire" up say, headphone's being unplugged to pausing the media player.
Jun 13 11:01:38 <MohammadAG51> hasn't someone already done that? :)
Jun 13 11:01:49 <alterego> That specific function sure.
Jun 13 11:01:54 <MohammadAG51> good project though, if you understand dbus :P
Jun 13 11:02:07 <lcuk> alterego, and users
Jun 13 11:02:12 <alterego> But I'm want to develop a more semantic generic service.
Jun 13 11:02:28 <spb> when did you become a middle manager?
Jun 13 11:02:31 * SpeedEvil wants tap implemented.
Jun 13 11:02:43 <alterego> spb: get out :P
Jun 13 11:04:42 <MohammadAG51> SpeedEvil, tap?
Jun 13 11:04:44 <a-saint> hi guys I need to know is overclocking n900 safe and what is it for
Jun 13 11:04:55 <MohammadAG51> infobot, overclocking
Jun 13 11:04:56 <alterego> so, just jotting some ideas at the moment, I'll hack something together with object introspection and PySide and see how well it works. Should be fine for simple method calls at least.
Jun 13 11:04:56 <infobot> "OK, listen up.  This is your CPU."  apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan.  "This is your CPU on overclocking.  Any questions?"
Jun 13 11:05:22 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG51: the accelelrometer supports 'tap' functions. Which generate interrupts when tapped
Jun 13 11:05:36 <alterego> Passing parameters around maybe more difficult and require some level of abstraction and logic to allow a user to use it.
Jun 13 11:05:50 <MohammadAG51> SpeedEvil, hmm, that was available in previous Nokia phones (E66 iirc)
Jun 13 11:06:10 <MohammadAG51> hmm, is the accelerometer on when the screen is off?
Jun 13 11:06:22 <SpeedEvil> Not by default I think.
Jun 13 11:06:33 <SpeedEvil> But in 'sense taps' mode it uses almost no power
Jun 13 11:06:48 <SpeedEvil> (with regards to the rest of the phone - no power.
Jun 13 11:07:11 <SpeedEvil> It interrupts, the CPU does not poll this.
Jun 13 11:07:24 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Accelerometer
Jun 13 11:08:46 <alterego> need to think of a decent name for the project though ....
Jun 13 11:09:20 <SpeedEvil> Buscatcher.
Jun 13 11:09:33 <a-saint> hi guys I need to know is overclocking n900 safe and what is it for
Jun 13 11:09:49 <SpeedEvil> a-saint: It's making the n900 faster. It may not be safe.
Jun 13 11:09:58 <SpeedEvil> It is not like overclocking desktops.
Jun 13 11:10:32 <vldcnst> a-saint: overclocking the n900 is like taking bad drugs, it will make the n900 a bit faster but it will kill it much sooner.
Jun 13 11:10:38 <alterego> a-saint: if you don't know, then I wouldn't worry about it :P
Jun 13 11:11:16 <lcuk> the biggest problem i have with overclocking my phone is the fact when i talk to people on non overclocked phones, my voice sounds like a chipmonk
Jun 13 11:11:47 <vldcnst> lcuk: doctor who presented a solution to that problem in the last episode.
Jun 13 11:12:08 <alterego> lcuk: hahah
Jun 13 11:12:23 <alterego> that was funny :)
Jun 13 11:12:40 <alterego> don't spoil it, I'm gonna watch it in a bit :P
Jun 13 11:12:46 <a-saint> SpeedEvil Buscatcher is a reply for me ?
Jun 13 11:12:56 <SpeedEvil> no
Jun 13 11:13:13 <SpeedEvil> To MohammadAG51
Jun 13 11:13:24 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: ack, I don't get it why gmeter seems to be disabled by default
Jun 13 11:13:40 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: Because these are software peopel.
Jun 13 11:13:56 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: Oh - it measures accel - we must have to poll it.
Jun 13 11:13:57 <DocScrutinizer> :-S
Jun 13 11:14:09 <SpeedEvil> -> turn it off when not in use
Jun 13 11:14:26 <DocScrutinizer> you checked the kernel driver?
Jun 13 11:14:42 <DocScrutinizer> what it is they actually do?
Jun 13 11:14:58 <SpeedEvil> Not bothered, as with the accel on, you can observe interrupts when you bang the phone on the table
Jun 13 11:15:00 <psycho_oreos> any of you guys use kismet/airodump-ng ?
Jun 13 11:15:11 <SpeedEvil> So it obviously works.
Jun 13 11:15:33 <DocScrutinizer> of course it works
Jun 13 11:15:46 <SpeedEvil> I mean in kernel driver in some limited manner
Jun 13 11:16:02 <SpeedEvil> Actually - that may just be the default settings.
Jun 13 11:16:02 <DocScrutinizer> it's the same design we used for OM Freerunner and even 1973 ;-P
Jun 13 11:16:10 <SpeedEvil> No, it's not.
Jun 13 11:16:15 <SpeedEvil> 1973 has no accel
Jun 13 11:16:25 <SpeedEvil> Unless I'm forgetting stuff.
Jun 13 11:16:50 <lcuk> 1973 had ford capri didnt it?
Jun 13 11:16:57 <DocScrutinizer> I had no coffeee yet, so forgive my brain not yet at working temp
Jun 13 11:17:10 * SpeedEvil places DocScrutinizers head in microwave.
Jun 13 11:17:28 <lcuk> http://www.dragtimes.com/1973-Ford-Capri-Pictures-7904.html
Jun 13 11:22:39 <DocScrutinizer> anyway http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Accelerometer
Jun 13 11:22:54 <MohammadAG51> lcuk, extended displays @ different res-s do work!
Jun 13 11:23:43 <steverm> hi guys what is overclocking n900 for and is it safe
Jun 13 11:23:56 <alterego> erm, .. deja vu
Jun 13 11:24:03 <pupnik> Lapto15.9 watts watching a divx movie while chatting, full screen brightness
Jun 13 11:24:11 <pupnik> what does n900 need for that? :) 0.3 watts?
Jun 13 11:24:27 <DocScrutinizer> ~overclocking
Jun 13 11:24:28 <infobot> "OK, listen up.  This is your CPU."  apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan.  "This is your CPU on overclocking.  Any questions?"
Jun 13 11:24:43 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: More like 1.1W
Jun 13 11:25:03 <SpeedEvil> steverm: It makes the n900 faster, and no it is not safe.
Jun 13 11:25:16 <pupnik> you have seen battery drain over 400mw SpeedEvil ?
Jun 13 11:25:28 <lcuk> MohammadAG51, cool
Jun 13 11:25:34 <DocScrutinizer> steverm: just yesterday we had a report here of a device almost killed by 10min of mpeg encoding at OC
Jun 13 11:26:19 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: yes.
Jun 13 11:26:20 <steverm> SpeedEvil ok thanks that's what I needed to know
Jun 13 11:26:24 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: ~3.1W
Jun 13 11:28:27 <steverm> SpeedEvil ok one more question, I use msn pekan but I can't see any of my contacts, what is the plugin needed for me to see them
Jun 13 11:28:57 <SpeedEvil> No clue, sorry.
Jun 13 11:29:05 <MohammadAG51> Try Haze
Jun 13 11:33:26 <MohammadAG51> ALG vs SVN - game started
Jun 13 11:33:43 <th3hate> ALG ftw
Jun 13 11:33:48 <th3hate> 2-0 plz
Jun 13 11:34:49 <pupnik> SpeedEvil: if i didn't know you i'd guess that was BS!
Jun 13 11:49:29 * sp3000 imagines CVS took too long to tag their team for release and missed the games
Jun 13 11:50:49 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: I think you may be confusing mA and mW
Jun 13 11:50:57 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: mW=mA*volts
Jun 13 11:51:15 <SpeedEvil> pupnik: Also - the screen uses 250mA or so on its own at brightest
Jun 13 11:51:25 <SpeedEvil> 3G can use the same again
Jun 13 11:52:05 <ham5> cant I view rootfs ?
Jun 13 11:52:25 <pupnik> you're right SpeedEvil ty
Jun 13 11:52:34 <ham5> file browser dosent cut it
Jun 13 11:55:44 <SpeedEvil> ham5: Install cuteexploere - for example
Jun 13 11:55:51 <SpeedEvil> Or just use xterm
Jun 13 11:58:22 <pigeon> hmm, why would an app not appear in the "add shortcut" list on the desktop, but it does appear in the application menu?
Jun 13 11:59:21 <ham5> thanks
Jun 13 12:04:00 <lcuk> pigeon, most likely because you have a widget on the desktop already
Jun 13 12:04:09 <lcuk> and if not, it mightv just got its knickers in a twist
Jun 13 12:04:15 <lcuk> see if it comes back after rebooting
Jun 13 12:04:52 <lcuk> ive noticed at different times (mostly with add/remove/reinstall apps) that it can occasionally happen
Jun 13 12:07:52 <pigeon> hmm
Jun 13 12:08:13 <pigeon> it's not widget, it's an app shortcut, and i tried rebooting already.
Jun 13 12:08:31 <lcuk> mhm dunno then
Jun 13 12:08:41 <pigeon> /usr/share/applications/hildon/mobilehotspot.desktop
Jun 13 12:33:54 <alterego> shame we can't have minus stars on threads :)
Jun 13 12:50:30 <alterego> And is there a brainstorm for sorting out t.m.o? I think it's getting better by itself a bit though ..
Jun 13 12:53:17 <MOUD> Hey all
Jun 13 12:54:43 <MOUD> how can I watch world cup on my n900?
Jun 13 13:01:18 <alterego> MOUD: find a flash based streaming service that works I guess ...
Jun 13 13:04:02 <MOUD> alterego: That's the problem. I cant find any
Jun 13 13:04:16 <MOUD> if you could link one please
Jun 13 13:05:24 <Jaffa> MOUD: Where are you based?
Jun 13 13:05:25 <alterego> sky sports usually do streaming I believe ..
Jun 13 13:05:41 <Jaffa> tvcatchup.com or iPlayer may work in the UK.
Jun 13 13:09:45 <MOUD> Jaffa: Saudi Arabia atm. I travel to many countries whenever i have to
Jun 13 13:27:43 <melmoth> gosh... how complicated is it to find where to download the maemo sdk for debian ?
Jun 13 13:28:19 <melmoth> last time i checked (2 days ago), there was a bundle (sdk+qtcreator) that miserablt failed to install on ubuntu
Jun 13 13:28:30 <melmoth> i want to try again on a fresh debian, but cannot find the url again
Jun 13 13:28:59 <vldcnst> X-Fade: here?
Jun 13 13:29:06 <melmoth> maemo.org gives url to the manual install....
Jun 13 13:29:13 <melmoth> http://qt.nokia.com/products/platform/maemo/ gives url to the sources...;
Jun 13 13:35:05 <MohammadAG51> infobot, ping
Jun 13 13:35:06 <infobot> ~pong
Jun 13 13:35:26 <HtheB> MohammadAG51, are you there?
Jun 13 13:36:45 <MohammadAG51> HtheB, yeah, not home though
Jun 13 13:36:51 <HtheB> ah
Jun 13 13:36:53 <HtheB> ok,
Jun 13 13:36:57 <HtheB> where are you ? :P
Jun 13 13:40:49 <w00t_> any pyqt people around? I'm trying to prototype something insane and I've forgotten most of how it works, which isn't helping
Jun 13 13:42:57 <Jaffa> Gah. So utterly pissed off and demotivated. One single throw away discussion can destroy your optimism
Jun 13 13:43:05 <Jaffa> (not entirely Maemo related ;-))
Jun 13 13:47:00 <w00t_> never mind, C++ it is
Jun 13 13:47:03 <w00t_> Jaffa: what's up?
Jun 13 13:50:18 <alterego> w00t_: i'm somewhat familiar with PySide :) what's your problem?
Jun 13 13:51:10 <w00t_> alterego: I couldn't figure out how templates (like QList<QWidget*>) would translate, so I just decided to stop translating.. I probably think quicker in C++ right now anyway
Jun 13 13:52:11 <Jaffa> w00t_: Primarily work stuff (although frustrated with MeeGo). Some of my colleagues are sidelining me (or rather it feels like they are), despite management claiming I'm essential.
Jun 13 13:52:23 <alterego> :) fair nuff. qlists just get converted to lists I believe.
Jun 13 13:52:52 <Jaffa> w00t_: Not sure if it's conscious "we don't need to talk to him anymore"; or whether it's subconscious "out-of-sight/out-of-mind" stuff. Neither makes me happy :-(
Jun 13 13:53:10 <w00t_> hmm :-(
Jun 13 13:53:12 * w00t_ pats
Jun 13 13:53:25 <Jaffa> Ta.
Jun 13 13:53:36 <Jaffa> w00t_: So, if I'm abrupt in replying to your posts; sorry ;-)
Jun 13 13:53:49 <w00t_> it's ok, i'm used to it!
Jun 13 13:53:52 <w00t_> :-P
Jun 13 13:54:04 <Jaffa> :-p
Jun 13 13:54:39 * Jaffa needs to talk to lbt again
Jun 13 13:57:16 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: sounds like "DocS trying to talk to TPE EE, via email from Germany" been there, seen that :-S
Jun 13 13:59:14 <Jaffa> lo crashanddie
Jun 13 13:59:31 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: sometimes I felt like talking to a spamfilter or autoresponder
Jun 13 13:59:50 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer: Know that feeling :-(
Jun 13 14:01:34 <DocScrutinizer> and the 79 different meanings of "yes" in chinese lang, from "great idea" till "fsck you", didn't really help on better comunications either :-P
Jun 13 14:02:49 <Jaffa> Heh
Jun 13 14:04:00 <DocScrutinizer> "will you agree on those suggestions?" YES - "...or do you think it's BS?" YES
Jun 13 14:16:47 <HtheB> AAAAAAAAARG!
Jun 13 14:16:51 <HtheB> im getting nuts!
Jun 13 14:16:52 <HtheB> >.<
Jun 13 14:17:02 * HtheB needs help with NITdroid
Jun 13 14:17:18 <alterego> Sunday flame wars, gotta love 'em
Jun 13 14:17:58 <HtheB> jo Guest68707 !
Jun 13 14:18:06 <crashanddie> lo Jaffa
Jun 13 14:18:12 <HtheB> cant get it to work :(
Jun 13 14:18:29 <Guest68707> still not home
Jun 13 14:18:32 <Guest68707> err
Jun 13 14:29:24 <DocScrutinizer> booooooooooooooring!!
Jun 13 14:30:09 <HtheB> can anyone help me
Jun 13 14:30:13 <alterego> indweedy
Jun 13 14:30:14 <HtheB> with NITdroid on N900
Jun 13 14:30:34 <HtheB> ....
Jun 13 14:30:44 <DocScrutinizer> see /topic
Jun 13 14:30:47 <HtheB> ofcourse its boring if you dont help me >:(
Jun 13 14:30:48 <HtheB> :P
Jun 13 14:31:17 * DocScrutinizer ponders to set up several autoresponders for HtheB
Jun 13 14:31:24 <alterego> hahah,
Jun 13 14:31:58 <HtheB> happy ending!?
Jun 13 14:33:34 <DocScrutinizer> one being /on regex('ending\!') msg "/cs op #maemo", msg "/kick HtheB "
Jun 13 14:34:11 <HtheB> :D :D :D :D
Jun 13 14:34:17 <HtheB> why the hell..
Jun 13 14:34:27 <HtheB> happy ending?!
Jun 13 14:34:31 <HtheB> :D
Jun 13 14:34:50 <DocScrutinizer> It'd be fun to see you kicked on any random person posting "bla blub ending! chiao HtheB !"
Jun 13 14:34:58 <HtheB> hahaha
Jun 13 14:35:03 <HtheB> happy ending!
Jun 13 14:35:05 <HtheB> :D
Jun 13 14:35:06 <HtheB> meh
Jun 13 14:35:10 <HtheB> that video just made my day
Jun 13 14:35:15 <HtheB> sooooo many +1 !
Jun 13 14:35:15 <vldcnst> infobot, HtheB is boring, obsolete, crying, sad.
Jun 13 14:35:16 <infobot> okay, vldcnst
Jun 13 14:35:32 <vldcnst> infobot, tell HtheB about HtheB
Jun 13 14:35:35 <HtheB> infobot, happy ending!?
Jun 13 14:36:05 <HtheB> infobot, vldcnst sux....
Jun 13 14:36:19 <HtheB> infobot, tell vldcnst about vldcnst
Jun 13 14:36:20 <HtheB> ._.
Jun 13 14:36:29 <vldcnst> fail.
Jun 13 14:36:34 <HtheB> xD
Jun 13 14:36:56 <HtheB> infobot, vldcnst is sucking a lot....
Jun 13 14:36:57 <infobot> okay, HtheB
Jun 13 14:37:00 <HtheB> infobot, tell vldcnst about vldcnst
Jun 13 14:37:02 <HtheB> :D
Jun 13 14:37:19 <FredrIQ> abusers
Jun 13 14:37:23 <HtheB> lol
Jun 13 14:37:29 <vldcnst> infobot, forget vldcnst
Jun 13 14:37:30 <infobot> vldcnst: i forgot vldcnst
Jun 13 14:37:34 <vldcnst> HtheB: now stop it.
Jun 13 14:37:36 <HtheB> infobot, forget HtheB
Jun 13 14:37:36 <infobot> i forgot htheb, HtheB
Jun 13 14:37:36 <HtheB> ok
Jun 13 14:37:52 <HtheB> anyone got NITdroid working?
Jun 13 14:39:00 <DocScrutinizer> noobs
Jun 13 14:39:28 <DocScrutinizer> ~docscrutinizer is infobot's best friend
Jun 13 14:39:29 <infobot> cannot alter locked factoids, DocScrutinizer
Jun 13 14:39:49 <FredrIQ> infobot, forget about yourself
Jun 13 14:39:49 <infobot> i didn't have anything called 'about yourself' to forget, FredrIQ
Jun 13 14:40:00 <FredrIQ> infobot, forget infobot
Jun 13 14:40:00 <infobot> i forgot infobot, FredrIQ
Jun 13 14:40:04 <FredrIQ> np
Jun 13 14:40:08 <HtheB> infobot, tell infobot about infobot
Jun 13 14:40:11 <DocScrutinizer> FredrIQ: fsckU
Jun 13 14:40:16 <HtheB> :D
Jun 13 14:40:23 <FredrIQ> infobot, recover infobot
Jun 13 14:40:38 <FredrIQ> ~recover infobot
Jun 13 14:40:43 <HtheB> infobot, infobot is awesome!
Jun 13 14:40:44 <infobot> ...but infobot is already something else...
Jun 13 14:40:49 <HtheB> oh
Jun 13 14:40:58 <vldcnst> sundays are boring, aren't they
Jun 13 14:41:02 <HtheB> :D heh
Jun 13 14:41:13 <DocScrutinizer> stop messing with infobot. That's a serious warning!
Jun 13 14:41:53 <DocScrutinizer> FredrIQ: RTFM!!
Jun 13 14:42:22 * HtheB hears grasshoppers
Jun 13 14:42:43 <FredrIQ> ? >_>
Jun 13 14:42:49 <FredrIQ> i've already stopped
Jun 13 14:44:05 <DocScrutinizer> nevertheless you messed with factoid database, without even knowing what you do. your [2010-06-13 16:40:38] <FredrIQ> ~recover infobot  is BS ->RTFM!!
Jun 13 14:44:24 <DocScrutinizer> anyway *I* fixed that for you
Jun 13 14:44:31 <DocScrutinizer> ~infobot
Jun 13 14:44:32 <infobot> docscrutinizer, i love abuse, feed me!, or whack, yo
Jun 13 14:45:04 <vldcnst> *he* fixed it.
Jun 13 14:47:17 <FredrIQ> docscrutinizer, calm down
Jun 13 14:47:24 <FredrIQ> i just used a command wrongly
Jun 13 14:47:30 <FredrIQ> nothing to rage about
Jun 13 14:47:39 <FredrIQ> it's not like i ruined the whold db or smth
Jun 13 14:47:47 <DocScrutinizer> first of all you deleted a factoid
Jun 13 14:48:26 * DocScrutinizer goes messing up FredrIQ's user wiki page
Jun 13 14:48:30 <vldcnst> oh noes.
Jun 13 14:48:31 <HtheB> a bit weird that everybody can mess with infobot
Jun 13 14:48:57 <FredrIQ> do i even have one?
Jun 13 14:49:02 <FredrIQ> not that i care anyway
Jun 13 14:49:04 <HtheB> rofl
Jun 13 14:49:37 <FredrIQ> and it's not like you can disable write access to the public level
Jun 13 14:49:39 <FredrIQ> hm
Jun 13 14:49:49 <FredrIQ> i've forgotten what levels infobot had
Jun 13 14:49:52 <FredrIQ> w/e
Jun 13 14:50:15 <vldcnst> rage quit! rage quit!
Jun 13 14:52:10 <DocScrutinizer> vldcnst: who's "*he*"?
Jun 13 15:11:58 <MohammadAG51> isn't that a Nokian?
Jun 13 15:12:08 <crashanddie> no
Jun 13 15:12:22 <MohammadAG51> k
Jun 13 15:12:55 <crashanddie> I wonder if the players at the world cup have been told the goal was the thing with the nets in it
Jun 13 15:14:08 <MohammadAG51> LOL
Jun 13 15:17:27 <DocScrutinizer> wtf? Aari was banned?
Jun 13 15:17:48 <vldcnst> Just an impersonator
Jun 13 15:17:57 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Jun 13 15:18:25 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, you actually think that guy would show up here?
Jun 13 15:18:34 <DocScrutinizer> dunno
Jun 13 15:18:44 <DocScrutinizer> strange things happen occasionally
Jun 13 15:19:00 <crashanddie> qgil comes once in a blue moon, for ari to come it would take a corporate meltdown
Jun 13 15:19:18 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, prolly
Jun 13 15:19:22 <alterego> hahah
Jun 13 15:19:28 <crashanddie> or like, I dunno, say if nokia completely screwed their users and community, so it's really not likely to happ... oh wait
Jun 13 15:19:43 <alterego> hahah
Jun 13 15:19:58 <alterego> I, personally, don't feel screwed.
Jun 13 15:20:18 <DocScrutinizer> hand me the screw driver
Jun 13 15:20:19 <alterego> I'm very happy with my device/s from Nokia
Jun 13 15:21:17 <alterego> Not been as happy with the phones mind. My previous before the N900 was an N96 whcih I thought would just be a better N95 8G
Jun 13 15:21:33 <alterego> It turned out to be a crashy pos :)
Jun 13 15:21:44 <Surfa> n96 wasn't the best device..
Jun 13 15:21:50 <alterego> I think my 7650 was more reliable ..
Jun 13 15:22:13 <SpeedEvil> My 3310 is way more reliable than my n900
Jun 13 15:22:20 <MohammadAG51> alterego, the N95 was an epic phone
Jun 13 15:22:27 <SpeedEvil> I'd love a n900 with that ruggedness.
Jun 13 15:22:33 <SpeedEvil> 'Oh - I'm sitting on my phone'
Jun 13 15:22:33 <MohammadAG51> mod it
Jun 13 15:22:40 <SpeedEvil> 'I'd better move - it's uncomfortable'
Jun 13 15:22:48 <SpeedEvil> vs 'Oh noes!'
Jun 13 15:22:53 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 13 15:23:05 <HtheB> =(
Jun 13 15:23:11 <HtheB> i still cant put Nitdroid
Jun 13 15:23:12 <HtheB> on my N900
Jun 13 15:23:13 <HtheB> xD
Jun 13 15:23:23 <Surfa> i personally like n900 too
Jun 13 15:23:38 <Surfa> there are so many possibilities with it
Jun 13 15:23:56 <Zucca> I've noticed rather irritating "bug" in maemo camera software on N900... Every time I plug my N900 via USB using mass storage mode the camera software changes the picture storage location to the memory card if it was internal storage before.
Jun 13 15:24:02 <alterego> Yeah, I think, after the N900 the N95 8G was the best phone I've ever owned.
Jun 13 15:24:28 <alterego> It was the perfect companion for my N800 ans N810 :)
Jun 13 15:24:51 <SpeedEvil> Zucca: When in mass storage mode, the internal flash is not accessible by the camera
Jun 13 15:25:06 <MohammadAG51> alterego, I had the N95-1
Jun 13 15:25:12 <MohammadAG51> it was better than the N97 tbh
Jun 13 15:25:33 <Surfa> MohammadAG51, depends on what you look for in a phone
Jun 13 15:25:46 <Surfa> n95 was ok, but not quite attractive in my minf
Jun 13 15:25:48 <MohammadAG51> well, I expected more free RAM
Jun 13 15:26:01 <MohammadAG51> don't give a crap about device looks
Jun 13 15:26:05 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: I got a deja vu, or you got a macro for that "I'm sitting on my phone" stuff?
Jun 13 15:26:11 <Zucca> SpeedEvil: Yes. But after I un plug it the picture storage location won't change back. And it happens even if I don't touch any camera software during USB connection.
Jun 13 15:26:20 <Surfa> MohammadAG51, attractive in any way, not just looks
Jun 13 15:26:28 <alterego> hell yeah, not sure if the later f/w revisions for the N97 improved much. But judging by the "N97 was a failure, I think Nokia should give all N97 owners the new N900" rants when it came out last year
Jun 13 15:26:36 <MohammadAG51> the N95 was an epic phone
Jun 13 15:26:53 <Surfa> sure was, but first of certain kind and thus a little immature
Jun 13 15:26:56 <MohammadAG51> alterego, it's a HW fail
Jun 13 15:27:02 <alterego> Now, all those N97 owners are saying "All N900 owners should get N8" :D
Jun 13 15:27:14 <MohammadAG51> 128MB ram, 40MBs on bootup
Jun 13 15:27:24 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: I'm just somewhat repetitive.
Jun 13 15:27:25 <Surfa> i wouldn't switch n900 to n8 :)
Jun 13 15:27:26 <MohammadAG51> 20MB phone memory out of the box
Jun 13 15:27:31 <SpeedEvil> That was rant #4398
Jun 13 15:27:32 <alterego> It's just a self perpetuating joke
Jun 13 15:27:51 <Zucca> alterego: Just wait for N9. Rumors say that it will be a MeeGo device.
Jun 13 15:27:51 <MohammadAG51> the only thing the N97 owns at is the hinge
Jun 13 15:28:06 <Surfa> i like the mechanism of n97
Jun 13 15:28:08 <MohammadAG51> i'll wait for neither
Jun 13 15:28:24 <MohammadAG51> yeah
Jun 13 15:28:49 <MohammadAG51> the camera was fail too
Jun 13 15:28:58 <Surfa> rumours are the best, you can have everything and no problems :)
Jun 13 15:29:01 <MohammadAG51> scratching itself, I kept it open for 6 months
Jun 13 15:29:11 <MohammadAG51> lies, I have an N900
Jun 13 15:29:35 <Surfa> mini version dont have that camera lense protector at all
Jun 13 15:29:59 <Surfa> doesnt
Jun 13 15:30:07 <DocScrutinizer> Zucca: that switching to uSD thing is a veritable bug, please file a ticket
Jun 13 15:30:58 <MohammadAG51> I had the original one
Jun 13 15:31:24 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: It's not really a bug. It's a consequence of a feature.
Jun 13 15:31:27 <MohammadAG51> the N97 looks better than the N900, the N900 beats it in every other way
Jun 13 15:31:37 <SpeedEvil> Without completely reworking the camera saving, you can't fix it.
Jun 13 15:31:56 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: it clearly a bug, if the setting is changed for no reaon at all
Jun 13 15:31:56 <SpeedEvil> Having said that, I would reward lavishly anyone who made a replacement camera app.
Jun 13 15:32:07 <MohammadAG51> someone already did
Jun 13 15:32:19 <lardman> afternoon
Jun 13 15:32:22 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: It's not changed for no reason. It's changed as the camera cannot save pictures onto the filesystem that the PC has mounted
Jun 13 15:32:25 <MohammadAG51> BlessN900 (idk why the f*** it was called that)
Jun 13 15:32:32 <MohammadAG51> o/ lardman
Jun 13 15:32:44 <lardman> hi MohammadAG51
Jun 13 15:32:53 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: wtf the cam has to safe anything when it's not 'activated'??
Jun 13 15:32:55 <MohammadAG51> you should fix that cloak :P
Jun 13 15:33:10 <SpeedEvil> Oh
Jun 13 15:33:15 <SpeedEvil> I missed that bit
Jun 13 15:33:20 <lardman> is fixed, just that my client logs in before I can /msg NickServ
Jun 13 15:33:38 <MohammadAG51> use a loadfile and time it like you want :)
Jun 13 15:33:53 <SpeedEvil> lardman: If you set you client pass and username to login to the IRC server - you are automatically  logged in when that happens
Jun 13 15:34:08 <SpeedEvil> lardman: with no /msg needed
Jun 13 15:34:08 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: set server password = user:ns-pw
Jun 13 15:34:46 <visz> SpeedEvil, http://blessn900.com/
Jun 13 15:34:46 <SpeedEvil> (you also need to add as a grouped account whatever you client will pick if your nick is unavailable, and set that up)
Jun 13 15:34:51 <DocScrutinizer> freenode supports that
Jun 13 15:35:24 <MohammadAG51> IRCseven sucks tbh :P
Jun 13 15:35:55 <SpeedEvil> visz: hmm
Jun 13 15:36:14 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: that's what docscrutmp is for ;-D
Jun 13 15:36:16 <cehteh> blessn900 reported to me 'not enough memory
Jun 13 15:36:16 <visz> the low blur mode seems nice enough
Jun 13 15:36:17 <MohammadAG51> SpeedEvil, it breaks image saving though
Jun 13 15:36:22 <MohammadAG51> cehteh, same
Jun 13 15:37:49 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: though I use a different unique temporary login nick for every of my clients
Jun 13 15:38:37 <DocScrutinizer> then /ns ghost the main nick and change own nick from temporaray to main
Jun 13 15:38:58 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: but with bouncer, a completely different setup is needed
Jun 13 15:40:14 <konfoo> ah i finally got gstreamer to poop out a format that streams live through our CDN
Jun 13 15:40:34 <MohammadAG51> world cup?
Jun 13 15:40:45 <DocScrutinizer> word count
Jun 13 15:41:13 <konfoo> ha no, im in socal, although the world cup location is indeed my hometown :P
Jun 13 15:41:35 <MohammadAG51> i want a stream that works on the N900 :(
Jun 13 15:42:09 <Surfa> video? audio?
Jun 13 15:42:13 <konfoo> seems like pulseaudio is the only valid source for capturing audio on the n900 - no direct dsp source for gstreamer that anyone knows of?
Jun 13 15:42:15 <MohammadAG51> video, world cup
Jun 13 15:43:04 <DocScrutinizer> konfoo: I'd guess ALSA hw:1.0 should work
Jun 13 15:43:44 <konfoo> doc: thanks ill give that a try. pulse creates a horridly desynced rtp muxed stream. completely unplayable
Jun 13 15:43:44 <DocScrutinizer> but might break your mic, when inbound call needs it
Jun 13 15:44:43 <konfoo> the dsp h264 encoder actually works really well incidentally - i get no frameskipping even end to end
Jun 13 15:44:47 <DocScrutinizer> damn, ther emust be hornets in my TV, and people in panic screaming and shouting
Jun 13 15:45:08 <konfoo> end to end being viewing the phone's live stream in a flash player embedded on a web page
Jun 13 15:45:19 <MohammadAG51> Goal! xD
Jun 13 15:45:53 <DocScrutinizer> I *hate* horror movies :-P
Jun 13 15:46:02 * DocScrutinizer zaps
Jun 13 15:46:33 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 13 15:47:10 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: inbound call?
Jun 13 15:48:48 <DocScrutinizer51> alterego: there's a new invention know by the name of "phone call" - those come in two flavours: inbound and outbound
Jun 13 15:53:22 <DocScrutinizer> while the type outbound is quite under your control, the inbound may occur any time, and might interfere with your usage of hte hardware, especially if you have establoshed exclusive access to a hw resource mandatory for that type of phone call, like microphone
Jun 13 15:55:24 <DocScrutinizer> so you better think about how to handle that situation
Jun 13 16:05:22 <konfoo> anyone know why 30/1 framesource for gstreamer always appears as 60fps in vlc playback codec info even though it's 30fps? muxing bug?
Jun 13 16:08:50 <lauri> hey guys, I remember on Maemo summit someone showed how to enable LEDs to show CPU interrupts
Jun 13 16:08:57 <lauri> where can I find more information about this?
Jun 13 16:15:57 <Blaizzen> score!!
Jun 13 16:21:27 <DocScrutinizer> konfoo: interlace? 2 half-frames?
Jun 13 16:25:47 <johnsq> Hi
Jun 13 16:28:36 <GAN900> Jaffa, lol.
Jun 13 16:29:44 <DocScrutinizer> ?
Jun 13 16:30:33 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, mwkn
Jun 13 16:30:39 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Jun 13 16:30:50 <GAN900> I always forget that Google Docs email is coming
Jun 13 16:31:00 * satmd pokes Stskeeps
Jun 13 16:37:03 * noobmonk3y waves
Jun 13 16:37:42 * SpeedEvil particles.
Jun 13 16:37:50 * noobmonk3y giggles
Jun 13 16:38:51 * MohammadAG51 throws a frals at noobmonk3y 
Jun 13 16:41:31 * noobmonk3y slaps frals with a nokia N93 .... better than a trout ;) with less use ;)
Jun 13 16:46:54 <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tMjiv6r6js
Jun 13 16:46:59 <SpeedEvil> htere are better phones to use
Jun 13 16:49:28 * GAN900 wonders how it is that MeeGo is distributing Chrome/Chromium.
Jun 13 16:50:41 <DocScrutinizer> chrome salts are extremely toxic, so I think I don't need chrome :-P
Jun 13 16:51:41 <kW_> Hello! Has anyone experience putting Maemo 5 PR 1.2 completely on a eMMC partition?
Jun 13 16:53:29 <Jaffa> GAN900: Indeed. tekojo never got back to us about that.
Jun 13 16:54:31 <SpeedEvil> GAN900: Differet set of lawyers?
Jun 13 17:00:34 <th3hate_> what's best font to use in n900's xchat?
Jun 13 17:01:38 <th3hate_> talk...
Jun 13 17:03:00 <BCMM> th3hate_: a matter of personal taste
Jun 13 17:03:17 <th3hate_> what do you use?
Jun 13 17:03:25 <BCMM> th3hate_: the default, atm
Jun 13 17:03:32 <BCMM> i may change it
Jun 13 17:03:39 <th3hate_> too small
Jun 13 17:03:57 <BCMM> th3hate_: do you prefer proportional or fixed fonts for IRC?
Jun 13 17:04:36 <BCMM> you can of course just use the default font in a larger size
Jun 13 17:04:38 <th3hate_> whats the difference?
Jun 13 17:04:58 <BCMM> th3hate_: between fixed and proportional?
Jun 13 17:05:03 <th3hate_> yep
Jun 13 17:05:25 <BCMM> th3hate_: fixed-width fonts have all characters the same width - space, i and W would all be the same width
Jun 13 17:06:09 <th3hate_> omg that would be one fat i
Jun 13 17:06:19 <BCMM> they originated in typewriters due to technical limitations, and today are often used for displaying source code
Jun 13 17:06:40 <BCMM> th3hate_: well, the i has a big serif at the bottom and a bit of empty space either side
Jun 13 17:06:51 <BCMM> th3hate_: the default font is fixed
Jun 13 17:07:08 <BCMM> (without a serif on the i though)
Jun 13 17:07:18 <BCMM> are you on the n900 now?
Jun 13 17:07:26 <BCMM> look at the word "fixed"
Jun 13 17:07:43 <MohammadAG51> SpeedEvil, how long did it take to compile the kernel on the N900 again?
Jun 13 17:07:45 <BCMM> if you are using the default font, there is a bit of space either side of the i
Jun 13 17:08:15 <th3hate_> then i prefer proportional
Jun 13 17:08:16 <BCMM> and the characters line up into neat columns between the lines
Jun 13 17:08:18 <th3hate_> i guess
Jun 13 17:08:37 <BCMM> th3hate_: yeah, not sure why so many people prefer irc to be fixed-width
Jun 13 17:08:39 <BCMM> i do, though
Jun 13 17:08:43 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG51: ~3 hours
Jun 13 17:08:51 <BCMM> th3hate_: well, next question - serif or sans-serif?
Jun 13 17:09:14 <th3hate_> whats the difference again...
Jun 13 17:09:18 <th3hate_> xD
Jun 13 17:09:32 * MohammadAG51 facepalms
Jun 13 17:09:50 <BCMM> th3hate_: well, a serifed font has serifs... they are small things on the end of lines
Jun 13 17:10:00 <BCMM> th3hate_: for example, look at a capital I
Jun 13 17:10:22 <th3hate_> i don't see serifs
Jun 13 17:10:24 <BCMM> in a sans font, such as the default n900 xchat font, it is a straight line
Jun 13 17:10:39 * DocScrutinizer sighs
Jun 13 17:11:04 <BCMM> th3hate_: in Times New Roman, for example, there would be horizontal bits at the top and bottom of the I
Jun 13 17:11:36 <th3hate_> i like sans-serif then
Jun 13 17:11:42 <BCMM> th3hate_: you reall need a picture, look at this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-serif
Jun 13 17:12:02 <BCMM> th3hate_: the most well-known sans font is arguably Arial, and the most well-known Serif font Times New Roman
Jun 13 17:12:08 <benno2> Hi, any idea what's the maximum sampling frequency supported by the N900 while capturing audio ? can I open an alsa input device with 22kHz in capture mode ?
Jun 13 17:12:22 <BCMM> th3hate_: but both sans and serif fonts come much nicer than those
Jun 13 17:12:45 <BCMM> th3hate_: so you want a sans-serif proportional?
Jun 13 17:12:45 <th3hate_> i see
Jun 13 17:13:01 <th3hate_> yes
Jun 13 17:13:10 <th3hate_> that would be good
Jun 13 17:13:13 <BCMM> th3hate_: you could look at Nokia Sans
Jun 13 17:13:52 <th3hate_> Nokia Sans SemiBold, 16
Jun 13 17:14:00 <th3hate_> that's what im using
Jun 13 17:14:41 <SpeedEvil> arecord -f cd test.wav
Jun 13 17:14:41 <SpeedEvil> Recording WAVE 'test.wav' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 44100 Hz, Stereo
Jun 13 17:14:41 <SpeedEvil>  benno2
Jun 13 17:14:56 <SpeedEvil> benno2: I have not got anything plugged in ATM - so can't confirm this works
Jun 13 17:14:57 <BCMM> th3hate_: serif fonts are generally more readable, but a lot of people consider sans to be more readable on screens
Jun 13 17:15:09 <BCMM> i am not somebody who considers sans to be more readable, in general
Jun 13 17:15:34 <th3hate_> Nokia Sans
Jun 13 17:15:42 <th3hate_> this one is very good
Jun 13 17:16:05 <benno2> SpeedEvil, thanks. because other Qt phones (Symbian) can do only 8kHz, so it might be handy to use higher rates on the N900
Jun 13 17:16:11 <BCMM> is nokia sans the one the rest of the interface uses (by default)?
Jun 13 17:16:42 <MohammadAG51> Nokia Sans is the default one
Jun 13 17:16:49 <MohammadAG51> in xchat
Jun 13 17:17:13 <th3hate_> rest of the interface uses a thinner font than nokia sans
Jun 13 17:17:20 <th3hate_> not the same
Jun 13 17:17:38 <BCMM> MohammadAG51: oh, perhaps i did change the default to a fixed one
Jun 13 17:17:41 <MohammadAG51> looks the same to me
Jun 13 17:17:42 <BCMM> sorry for misleading people
Jun 13 17:18:15 <MohammadAG51> currently looking @ a blue block in my CPU load graph
Jun 13 17:18:27 <th3hate_> actually i learned a lot about fonts from you :P
Jun 13 17:18:28 <MohammadAG51> I'll leave my i5 running for kernel compilation xD
Jun 13 17:18:40 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: benno2: you also might want to add a -v to arecord, to see if it *really* opens the hw PCM witha sampling rate of 44100, or the plugin stack resamples somewhere
Jun 13 17:18:43 <BCMM_> i'm using MHeiGB18030C-Medium Light 14
Jun 13 17:19:07 <th3hate_> you should make it 16
Jun 13 17:19:12 <SpeedEvil> It claims to be real
Jun 13 17:19:18 <th3hate_> 14 is hard to read
Jun 13 17:19:25 <SpeedEvil> Eyes vary.
Jun 13 17:19:28 <BCMM_> i like it, actually - sans makes some sense for fixed
Jun 13 17:19:47 <MohammadAG51> lol indeed
Jun 13 17:20:03 <andre__> anybody knows how to find out the phone number in ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db that I was forced to send an SMS to because of MyNokia when upgrading to PR1.2?
Jun 13 17:20:35 <vldcnst> X-Fade: here?
Jun 13 17:20:56 <MohammadAG51> andre__, I doubt it's saved there
Jun 13 17:21:03 <MohammadAG51> I might be wrong though
Jun 13 17:21:16 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: I could think the hw even supports 44100 *only*, and every different sampling rate is resampled by alsa/PA
Jun 13 17:21:22 <andre__> MohammadAG51, but some people found out in the bug reports. They didn't describe how, though. maybe I should ask there :-P
Jun 13 17:21:27 <th3hate_> is it illegal to download chromium for n900 now?
Jun 13 17:21:50 <MohammadAG51> no, but it might be illegal to host it
Jun 13 17:22:02 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, thanks. I am using QAudioInput but don't have a real device handy ATM, (colleague is doing the testing remotely). on the SDK for example I set QAudioInput to record with a buf of 512bytes but on the real N900 it opens it with 1600bytes (which is a strange number, not a power of 2).
Jun 13 17:22:10 <MohammadAG51> andre__, hmm, i suggest asking ossipena or anyone who's used a database
Jun 13 17:22:20 <MohammadAG51> or check out VertSMS's sources
Jun 13 17:22:27 <BCMM> ... and messages like that are why i don't use a size 16 font...
Jun 13 17:22:42 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: yes, ALSA does that weird kind of stuff
Jun 13 17:22:59 <th3hate_> use shift+up to scroll long messages
Jun 13 17:23:30 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, it seems QAudioInput uses ALSA. while other maemo apps use gstreamer. so does it mean that one can use ALSA and gstreamer in parallel ? (software mixing in the ALSA layer?)
Jun 13 17:23:30 <SpeedEvil> It is not illegal to host chromium - in the courgette free version.
Jun 13 17:23:33 <SpeedEvil> In any way.
Jun 13 17:24:05 <SpeedEvil> It may be subject to legal action from Red Bend, due to them thinking that it has some patented stuff in - this does not make it illegal to host.
Jun 13 17:24:10 <MohammadAG51> well, hosting it can cause problems if they really infirnged that patent
Jun 13 17:24:12 <th3hate_> they removed it from -devel
Jun 13 17:24:20 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG51: No, it can't.
Jun 13 17:24:24 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: theoretically that's possible, but I'm afraid PA hijacked the N900 and ALSA plain vanilla doesn't fit in too good to that picture
Jun 13 17:24:25 <th3hate_> can't download now
Jun 13 17:24:34 <MohammadAG51> then why did the council take it down
Jun 13 17:24:35 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG51: The version recently in -devel had no courgette - it had been removed.
Jun 13 17:24:44 <MohammadAG51> courgette?
Jun 13 17:24:52 <SpeedEvil> The council did not take it down. Nokia legal basically insisted it was taken down.
Jun 13 17:25:08 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, sorry missing the term 'PA'
Jun 13 17:25:12 <th3hate_> what's courgette
Jun 13 17:25:16 <DocScrutinizer> Pulse Audio
Jun 13 17:25:19 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/community/council/chromium-removed_from_maemo-org_repositories/
Jun 13 17:25:25 <SpeedEvil> see the top comment
Jun 13 17:25:26 <MohammadAG51> seen that
Jun 13 17:26:24 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, ah thantks. so is pulse audio running on the N900 by default ? if yes then strange that Qt for Maemo does not use those interfaces. I did look at Qt sources and there is no trace of PA or gstreamer
Jun 13 17:26:53 <DocScrutinizer> PA is a layer *above* ALSA (basic hw drivers still are ALSA soundcard), but claiming (falsely) to do a better job on mixing/sharing than ALSA dmix/dsnoop does
Jun 13 17:27:54 <SpeedEvil> To add to the fun, there is a 'fake alsa' implemented by pulseaudio
Jun 13 17:27:58 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, yes I know PA, still wondering why it got adopted by many distros as the official audio mixer. jackd does a much better job (extreme low latency, down to single digit) and has a clean API. sight
Jun 13 17:28:19 <DocScrutinizer> then again PA supplies a ALSA audio device compatibility plugin for PA, so an app thinking it uses ALSA is in fact connected to PA, which in turn hands the samples down to the ALSA audiocard driver - all a nasty nightmare
Jun 13 17:29:10 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, yes, this is probably why I get that odd 1600 bytes buffersize.
Jun 13 17:30:55 <benno2> SpeedEvil: could you launch: arecord -l  on your N900 pease ?  just wondering if only pulse audio is supported or the hw device too (card 0). thanks
Jun 13 17:31:02 <DocScrutinizer> plus PA is known to have a few really terrible bugs in maemo, like not freeing the resources on closing the audio stream
Jun 13 17:32:02 <th3hate_> hildon-desktop uses too much cpu lately
Jun 13 17:32:09 <SpeedEvil> http://pastebin.ca/1882344
Jun 13 17:32:11 <th3hate_> how to stop that
Jun 13 17:32:19 <DocScrutinizer> or occasionally eating up all cpu cycles for mixing down nonexistent streams
Jun 13 17:32:38 <HtheB> happy ending!
Jun 13 17:32:49 * HtheB is going to jump from the window
Jun 13 17:32:54 <MohammadAG51> dsmetool -k hildon-desktop
Jun 13 17:33:00 * HtheB falls on the ground
Jun 13 17:33:05 <MohammadAG51> or simply killall -9 hildon-desktop
Jun 13 17:33:06 <DocScrutinizer> better for you, before I get on you
Jun 13 17:33:14 * HtheB stands up and scratches his head
Jun 13 17:33:24 <HtheB> hmmm... I jumped from the first floor :P
Jun 13 17:33:26 <HtheB> HAHAHA
Jun 13 17:33:37 <th3hate_> will that remove widgets?
Jun 13 17:33:43 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, sad, the linux audio devs are not happy too about PA. especially jackd author, which is widely respected by the audio community.  any idea what audio API Meego will use ?
Jun 13 17:34:08 <benno2> SpeedEvil, thanks. so it seems that capturing directly from the card:0 (hw) is supported
Jun 13 17:34:13 <DocScrutinizer> no, but I really hope they dump PA
Jun 13 17:34:28 <SpeedEvil> benno2: that is not really the card
Jun 13 17:34:35 <SpeedEvil> benno2: It's the pulseaudio emulation layer
Jun 13 17:34:40 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Jun 13 17:34:44 <benno2> SpeedEvil, you thinks so ? :)
Jun 13 17:34:47 <DocScrutinizer> blaaarrghhh
Jun 13 17:34:49 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it
Jun 13 17:35:04 <benno2> SpeedEvil, I think pulse registers as pulseaudio: ...
Jun 13 17:35:26 <DocScrutinizer> that's such an incredible MESS :-(
Jun 13 17:35:28 <SpeedEvil> arecord: pcm_read:1617: read error: Input/output error
Jun 13 17:35:43 <SpeedEvil> after killing pulseaudio while recording from above 'hardware' device
Jun 13 17:35:53 <benno2> SpeedEvil :(
Jun 13 17:36:11 <HtheB> DocScrutinizer, u know what I'm going to say?
Jun 13 17:36:40 <th3hate_> Xorg is using 10% cpu all the time
Jun 13 17:36:45 <SpeedEvil> The other issue is that the audio routing is quite complex (though not as complex as some other decices :) ) so even once pulse is dead, it's not completely trivial to work out how to record
Jun 13 17:36:46 <th3hate_> is that normal
Jun 13 17:37:07 <benno2> SpeedEvil, how can it be. I always thought that ALSA was the base system and maemo used an alsa audio driver for the audio hw ? what does lsmod say in this regard ? or do they have some proprietary stuff which PA and gstreamer plugs into (still OSS API?)
Jun 13 17:37:11 <DocScrutinizer2> HtheB: go ahead
Jun 13 17:37:24 <HtheB> meh
Jun 13 17:37:33 <HtheB> :D
Jun 13 17:37:50 <HtheB> I still couldnt get NITdroid to work
Jun 13 17:37:56 <HtheB> it drives me crazy :(
Jun 13 17:38:10 <GAN900> alterego, ping?
Jun 13 17:39:43 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: Nokia definitely has some 'proprietary' crap around sound drivers and config of whole audio system
Jun 13 17:40:44 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: tok me 2..4 years to understand 80% of ALSA. No idea how to wrap my head around what they did to N900 audio system
Jun 13 17:40:50 <DocScrutinizer> took even
Jun 13 17:42:21 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, a proprietary driver is plausible but I doubt they use a new driver system so the N900 probably talks to the audio hw either via OSS or ALSA. otherwise both gstreamer and PA would need to have special N900 patches.
Jun 13 17:42:46 <DocScrutinizer> ALSA I guess
Jun 13 17:47:04 <DocScrutinizer> anyway Nokia obviously hasn't got it that a FOSS project is much more about good documentation of the concept, rather than dropping a working implementation to the community
Jun 13 17:47:55 <HtheB> =(
Jun 13 17:47:56 <DocScrutinizer> the sourcecode of a working implementation can be next to useless, if it's poorly documented
Jun 13 17:47:59 <HtheB> DocScrutinizer,
Jun 13 17:48:06 <DocScrutinizer> WAHT?
Jun 13 17:48:14 <HtheB> you're the man :D
Jun 13 17:48:16 <MohammadAG51> 10m22s on the i5
Jun 13 17:48:25 <MohammadAG51> 49m57s on my laptop
Jun 13 17:48:32 <MohammadAG51> i'll use the i5 next time
Jun 13 17:48:38 <MohammadAG51> (kernel, modules, packages)
Jun 13 17:49:15 <DocScrutinizer> HtheB: c'mon just say it one more time, so I don't waste that +o
Jun 13 17:49:27 <HtheB> k
Jun 13 17:49:45 <Rofls> happy ending!
Jun 13 17:49:48 <HtheB> :p
Jun 13 17:50:30 <HtheB> it was Rofls :(
Jun 13 17:50:30 <HtheB> not HtheB ;p
Jun 13 17:50:30 <HtheB> haha
Jun 13 17:50:30 <HtheB> :D :D
Jun 13 17:50:30 <HtheB> sunday <3
Jun 13 17:51:00 <MohammadAG51> aww, crashanddie is offline
Jun 13 17:51:05 <DocScrutinizer2> told ya I'll set up an autoresponder to kick you whenever somebody sends that string
Jun 13 17:51:11 <MohammadAG51> i wanted you to kick him
Jun 13 17:51:20 <HtheB> arg :op
Jun 13 17:51:28 <MohammadAG51> LOL you set it to kick @ that regex?
Jun 13 17:51:37 <HtheB> no one should say " ending! " anymore!
Jun 13 17:51:40 <HtheB> :p
Jun 13 17:51:55 <MohammadAG51> lag
Jun 13 17:52:01 <HtheB> yeahh :
Jun 13 17:52:01 <HtheB> :P
Jun 13 17:52:04 <HtheB>  hahaha
Jun 13 17:52:20 <DocScrutinizer2> MohammadAG51: I'm compiling a kernel ;-P
Jun 13 17:52:20 * MohammadAG51 deops DocScrutinizer2 
Jun 13 17:52:28 <HtheB> ^
Jun 13 17:52:28 <HtheB> ^^
Jun 13 17:52:29 <BCMM> hang on, which string?
Jun 13 17:52:34 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer2, if you want use my i5
Jun 13 17:52:42 <MohammadAG51> kernel compilation is an ass
Jun 13 17:52:42 <HtheB> MohammadAG51, dont yell the word ending :(
Jun 13 17:52:48 <BCMM> is it :p?
Jun 13 17:53:14 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer2, or hijack into t-tan's Xeon
Jun 13 17:53:23 <DocScrutinizer2> MohammadAG51: nah, I don't bother if autoresponder is a bit laggy
Jun 13 17:53:28 <MohammadAG51> if you do that, change the pass for me
Jun 13 17:53:33 <HtheB> ping
Jun 13 17:53:45 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer2, how much time does it take you to compile it?
Jun 13 17:53:54 <DocScrutinizer2> dunno
Jun 13 17:53:57 <HtheB_> arg
Jun 13 17:53:59 <HtheB_> disconnected
Jun 13 17:54:03 <DocScrutinizer2> j/k tbh
Jun 13 17:54:03 <HtheB_> MohammadAG51, dont yell the word ending :(
Jun 13 17:54:21 <MohammadAG51> HtheB_, you already said that :P
Jun 13 17:54:31 <HtheB_> xxD
Jun 13 17:54:38 <HtheB_> it will be not ending!
Jun 13 17:54:39 <HtheB_> never!!!
Jun 13 17:54:43 * HtheB_ gets kicked
Jun 13 17:54:59 * DocScrutinizer2 takes HtheB_ to a painful turing test
Jun 13 17:55:04 <HtheB_> xD hahaha
Jun 13 17:55:27 <BCMM> you torture him and see if he screams in binary?
Jun 13 17:55:31 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer2, what's with the 2?
Jun 13 17:55:43 <DocScrutinizer2> bouncer
Jun 13 17:55:59 <DocScrutinizer2> I'm still transitioning
Jun 13 17:56:14 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 13 17:57:41 <HtheB_> jo DocScrutinizer
Jun 13 17:58:37 <HtheB_> jo MohammadAG51
Jun 13 17:59:47 <HtheB_> test
Jun 13 18:05:08 * MohammadAG51 kicks crashanddie 
Jun 13 18:23:07 <timoph> n810 keyboard feels strange after not using it for some months
Jun 13 18:27:44 <frals> Stskeeps: pong... doh :p
Jun 13 18:27:50 <frals> bug #10668
Jun 13 18:27:51 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10668 fmms
Jun 13 18:27:57 <frals> this bug... :|
Jun 13 18:28:23 <Stskeeps> frals: ah, too late :P me and lbt went out for dinner :)
Jun 13 18:28:31 <frals> yeah, i figured
Jun 13 18:28:51 <frals> sorry i missed it - been busy :<
Jun 13 18:28:59 <Stskeeps> it's fine, had a good steak :)
Jun 13 18:29:35 <frals> :)
Jun 13 18:30:59 <Stskeeps> will have to catch you when back from tampere i guess
Jun 13 18:31:20 <frals> when are you in hel again? thursday?
Jun 13 18:31:24 <Stskeeps> wednesday
Jun 13 18:31:30 <frals> alright
Jun 13 18:31:35 <Stskeeps> leaving saturday midday
Jun 13 18:31:45 <HtheB_> fail
Jun 13 18:31:47 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: you've seen the report of a killed battery by running some encoder on a OC N900? yesterday this chan...
Jun 13 18:32:03 <frals> ah, shouldnt be a problem catching up at some point then :)
Jun 13 18:32:33 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: no, but i wouldn't be surprised if OC'ing messed with some expectations of how quickly the battery runs down
Jun 13 18:32:59 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: if not, then search for "24W" in backscroll
Jun 13 18:33:32 <Stskeeps> not sure i have that long back in backscroll, 19 hours ago :P
Jun 13 18:34:24 <DocScrutinizer> sems either bme/dsme failed to manage the termal situation, or the "power kernel" broke the meassures taken by bme/dsme to stop the N900 from overheating and thus literally killing the cell
Jun 13 18:34:54 <DocScrutinizer> seems* and thermal*
Jun 13 18:36:36 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: just a few more bits of ammunition for you to bring jrbme and related stuff ahead
Jun 13 18:38:02 <Stskeeps> well, OC's people's own fault if they break anything..
Jun 13 18:38:04 <lauri> hello guys, do you know what are called those yellow popup messages?
Jun 13 18:38:11 <lauri> (in programming terms)
Jun 13 18:38:12 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: sure
Jun 13 18:38:16 <SpeedEvil> hildon-banner
Jun 13 18:38:33 <GAN900> or hildon-note
Jun 13 18:38:36 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, Germany 1!!!
Jun 13 18:38:38 <GAN900> For the big one
Jun 13 18:38:44 <MohammadAG51> (australia 0)
Jun 13 18:38:49 <SpeedEvil> http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs_unstable/reference/hildonmm/html/classHildon_1_1Banner.html
Jun 13 18:38:57 <DocScrutinizer> aaah that's the noise outside
Jun 13 18:39:14 <lauri> Is there integration with Qt4/PyQt4 apps?
Jun 13 18:39:30 <ds3> what's a good way to view a huge (say 8192x8192) image on the N900?
Jun 13 18:39:48 <MohammadAG51> zoom out :P
Jun 13 18:40:15 <ds3> no,that's not the problem I am trying to solve
Jun 13 18:40:15 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: I'm just concerned about similar thing could happen with a regular stock kernel, when only environment conditions are a little worse.
Jun 13 18:40:29 <ds3> most image viewers will try to load all of it into memory and that well... don't work too well
Jun 13 18:40:49 <BCMM> ds3: there is liqmap
Jun 13 18:40:55 <ds3> I know in the dos days, they had viewers that were smart enough to load parts of the file...
Jun 13 18:41:08 <ds3> BCMM: let me look that up
Jun 13 18:41:17 <BCMM> ds3: which is supposed to be an interface for using a high-resolution photo as a draggable map
Jun 13 18:41:43 <BCMM> ds3: although i suspect it still loads it into memory
Jun 13 18:41:51 <ds3> mapping is exactly why I am looking for this
Jun 13 18:42:11 <BCMM> is it even possible to selectively load parts of, for example, a JPEG?
Jun 13 18:42:21 <ds3> what I was thinking of doing is chopping it up into tiles and using something like mapper to look at it but that's a lot of work
Jun 13 18:42:37 <ds3> BCMM: sure... a jpeg is a lot of tiny tiles in DCT space
Jun 13 18:43:24 <BCMM> ds3: is that why poorly-compressed, low-quality JPEGs seem to have a "grid" over them?
Jun 13 18:43:41 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: as there's no requirements spec for bme, we don't know if that particular situation was caused by OC kernel, by a out-of-spec battery, by a flaw or bug in bme/dsme, or what else. I'm not tempted to test it on my device, with stock kernel :-P
Jun 13 18:44:11 <BCMM> ds3: does mapper already do that, or would you need to modify it?
Jun 13 18:44:38 <BCMM> ds3: i mean, the chopping up isn't a great deal of work
Jun 13 18:44:42 <BCMM> well, it is for your CPU :)
Jun 13 18:44:47 <ds3> BCMM: basically, yes.. that grid is the tiles being converted from normal to DCT'ed space where the high coef's get dropped
Jun 13 18:45:09 <ds3> BCMM: that and either having to georeference on the spot or have a ton of repos
Jun 13 18:45:21 <BCMM> ah
Jun 13 18:45:30 <ds3> I can chop it up on import to device but it is the georef/tons of repo part that I don't like
Jun 13 18:45:46 <BCMM> ds3: i don't know what "tons of repo" means
Jun 13 18:45:52 <ds3> I have huge scanned USGS topo maps that I would liketo carry
Jun 13 18:46:08 <ds3> BCMM: one repo per image... nad I have tons of images
Jun 13 18:46:19 <BCMM> ds3: well, try liqmap - perhaps it does do something clever
Jun 13 18:46:27 <ds3> like more then 50 cds full of them
Jun 13 18:47:44 <BCMM> usgs provides something a bit like like the Ordnance Survey in the UK?
Jun 13 18:48:17 <ds3> sort of...USGS provides more free data then what I recall was available for the UK
Jun 13 18:48:52 <ds3> you can get digital rasters (huge TIFF's) from them or digital data with all the elevation data and a bunch other formats
Jun 13 18:49:09 <BCMM> liqmap is supposed to be for taking a photo of a map and using that, so it may not do that
Jun 13 18:49:24 <BCMM> ds3: yeah, OS is kinda stupid about copyright
Jun 13 18:49:39 <BCMM> by "do that", i mean "not choke on the massive images"
Jun 13 18:50:27 <benno2> DocScrutinizer: here is the pulse audio mess you described, horrible: http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf
Jun 13 18:51:13 <ds3> from what I am reading, it is worth a try
Jun 13 18:51:31 <ds3> wish I could find the homepage for it tosee if it natively understand GeoTiffs
Jun 13 18:52:28 <BCMM> ds3: the homepage for what?
Jun 13 18:52:33 <ds3> liqmap
Jun 13 18:53:10 * frals throws some bacon at lcuk
Jun 13 18:53:13 <BCMM> wonder if lcuk is online
Jun 13 18:53:56 <pexi> ds3, try asking on some GIS channel like #osm :)
Jun 13 18:54:24 <ds3> pexi: for an app that does it or for liqmap?
Jun 13 18:54:52 <pexi> for the n900 and geodata stuff
Jun 13 18:55:45 <ds3> what I want to do is slightly different
Jun 13 18:56:06 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: WTF??
Jun 13 18:56:08 <ds3> what I really want is a N900 app for view topo maps
Jun 13 18:56:09 <DocScrutinizer> • Synchronize up link audio buering with Cellular Modem
Jun 13 18:56:11 <DocScrutinizer>  Cellular Modem sends up-link timing adjustment messages
Jun 13 18:56:12 <DocScrutinizer>  Align up-link buering according to messages
Jun 13 18:56:14 <DocScrutinizer>  Change UL timing with 5 ms granularity
Jun 13 18:56:18 <ds3> the android folks apparently have one ;)
Jun 13 18:56:35 <SpeedEvil> ds3: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_Opendata
Jun 13 18:56:46 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, germany 2 - 0 australia xDDDD
Jun 13 18:56:50 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, set the latency higher while not in calls, this sucks for real time apps :(
Jun 13 18:56:52 <DocScrutinizer> there somebody honestly lost his mind over the challemge perceived
Jun 13 18:57:16 <DocScrutinizer> It's an utterly useless concept
Jun 13 18:57:43 <ds3> SpeedEvil: that's all vector data... I want the raster maps as it has notes made by surveyors, etc on them that is not in the vector ones
Jun 13 18:57:48 <DocScrutinizer> as there's not the slightest need to sync ALSA buffering with GSM timeslots or whatever
Jun 13 18:58:00 <benno2> MohammadAG51, australia.klose()  :)
Jun 13 18:58:36 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, software voip phones work quite welll  even with echo cancellation
Jun 13 18:59:16 <DrGrov> Who mentioned about some World Cup widget? Perhaps I have been mistaken
Jun 13 18:59:57 <MohammadAG51> search for pelota on tmo
Jun 13 19:01:41 * DocScrutinizer shakes head, deeply depressed about that paper and the concept sketched therein, sighs, and heads out to the toilet for puking
Jun 13 19:02:31 <DrGrov> Pelota on tmo?
Jun 13 19:03:04 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: I'm unsure it might not have marginal powersaving benefits.
Jun 13 19:03:05 <benno2> I need to write a debugfile on the n900 and place it in a dir where the user can read it it via USB cable. what is the exact path please?  /home/....   thanks (no device handy ATM)
Jun 13 19:03:30 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: but I extremely question if that's relevant when the GSM bit is using a largish fraction of a watt
Jun 13 19:03:47 <SpeedEvil> benno2: /home/user/MyDocs is exported on plugin
Jun 13 19:03:53 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: that's almost the biggest BS I ever heard - this part about >>• Synchronize up link audio buering with Cellular Modem<<
Jun 13 19:04:13 <benno2> SpeedEvil, thanks. trying now.
Jun 13 19:04:25 <SpeedEvil> 'but this way I get paid for 10000 extra lines of code'.
Jun 13 19:05:21 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: exactly, plus for 3..6 additional man-months for implementing that idiocy
Jun 13 19:05:36 <DocScrutinizer> go figure: Cellular Modem sends up-link timing adjustment messages
Jun 13 19:05:45 <SpeedEvil> It may also help remove 5ms of latency in the stack
Jun 13 19:05:48 <DocScrutinizer> to ASLA!!
Jun 13 19:05:49 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure about that
Jun 13 19:06:16 <DocScrutinizer> I'm absolutely sure that's a big steaming pile of BS
Jun 13 19:06:57 <SpeedEvil> I do wonder what the hard minimum number is for GSM or 3G voice phone power use on call.
Jun 13 19:07:45 <DocScrutinizer> GSM latency/skew is known to be in the magnitude of 500ms rather than 5, and the lag between speaker out and mic in to the modem is completely meaningless to anything OTA
Jun 13 19:08:14 <SpeedEvil> ds3: no, it's not
Jun 13 19:08:31 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, QAudioInput gives me 8000byte latency on the N900 when using 44khz, that sucks. equals to 100msec.  courtesy of pulse audio and finnish audio experts :)
Jun 13 19:08:31 <DocScrutinizer> so why on earth and in hell would anybody want to ""Synchronize up link audio buering with Cellular Modem"" ?!
Jun 13 19:08:33 <SpeedEvil> ds3: OS streetview is a raster product, and there are other raster proucts
Jun 13 19:08:55 * melmoth sigh
Jun 13 19:09:01 <melmoth> this plateform is depressing...
Jun 13 19:09:27 <melmoth> trying to install  qt4-dev-tools
Jun 13 19:09:45 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, need to puke again...
Jun 13 19:09:49 <melmoth> http://pastebin.com/nhcVjSkg
Jun 13 19:10:46 <Venemo> melmoth: seems that this stuff depends on Qt 4.5 and you have Qt 4.6 installed
Jun 13 19:11:11 <SpeedEvil> ds3: http://os.openstreetmap.org/?zoom=13&lat=56.21397&lon=-3.10867&layers=B0 - admittedly - nicer would be better
Jun 13 19:12:58 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: btw all that isn't about powersaving at all (except the part where it's babbling about using modem amp to playback system sound would be a suboptimal solution)
Jun 13 19:13:22 <DocScrutinizer> the whole hassle is just to keep the AEC inside modem working
Jun 13 19:13:47 <SpeedEvil> Oh - the AEC is in the modem
Jun 13 19:13:57 <SpeedEvil> so you need _really_ controlled jitter then
Jun 13 19:13:59 <DocScrutinizer> which needs a non-jittery rtt from speaker to mic, to calibrate decently
Jun 13 19:14:13 <SpeedEvil> Might almost be easier to put that into PA
Jun 13 19:14:59 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, I really hope they did not do such a mess on Meego regarding audio. otherwise no wonder that steve jobs laughs all the way to the bank. since audio call do require low latency and stutterfree operation. why cannot have it in audio apps ? it rules out a lot of apps like musical apps, and other stuff which depends on low latency. on symbian it's the same. with nokia's api it's impossible to get decent latencies and users are smashing ovi store wi
Jun 13 19:14:59 <benno2> th negative comments about high latency. the fun thing is symbian phones are low latency capable. but nokia does not publish the api since it does not work on older phones.
Jun 13 19:15:05 <DocScrutinizer> maybe it's even inside PA, but then I don't see ANY benefit in bothering about 5ms delay for that buffer
Jun 13 19:15:52 <MohammadAG51> germany is sooo gonna win this one
Jun 13 19:16:10 <SpeedEvil> germany v poland?
Jun 13 19:16:40 <MohammadAG51> germany vs australia :D
Jun 13 19:16:49 <MohammadAG51> 2-0, half time now
Jun 13 19:17:06 <MohammadAG51> additonal time, 1 minute
Jun 13 19:17:24 <xDaReaperx> yeah haha that too before half time
Jun 13 19:17:41 <xDaReaperx> i support Brazil though
Jun 13 19:17:44 <MohammadAG51> 2-0
Jun 13 19:19:30 <melmoth> Venemo, problem is, i dont find any qt6-dev . What is supposed to be qt on a up to date sdk ?
Jun 13 19:19:45 <MohammadAG51> qt6?
Jun 13 19:20:03 <MohammadAG51> Qt 4.7.3 is the newest one afaik
Jun 13 19:20:12 <MohammadAG51> Qt 4.6.2 for the N900
Jun 13 19:20:28 <cure`> god trying to install flexget on my readynas, braindamage for a linux noob like me, it seems to install the to python2.4 subdir when it should install to python 2.5, despite python -V returning 2.5
Jun 13 19:20:43 <cure`> had to install python 2.5 first, but something is not right
Jun 13 19:20:47 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: that's an excellent example what happens if you give a requirements spec to a sw engineer who has no idea about the real thing. He tries to minimize a 5ms lag, just before it gets transferred over a channel that probably has a 1000ms rtt
Jun 13 19:21:08 <SpeedEvil> :/
Jun 13 19:21:26 <ds3> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_Opendata
Jun 13 19:21:26 <ds3> *** Signoff: melmoth (Read error: Connection timed out)
Jun 13 19:21:26 <ds3> <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, germany 2 - 0 australia xDDDD
Jun 13 19:21:27 <ds3> <Jymmm:#emc> cradek: Ok, so the "FILL" is purely a visual thing (on screen),
Jun 13 19:21:27 <ds3> +not remove that area like you would with V-carving?
Jun 13 19:21:27 <ds3> <benno2> DocScrutinizer, set the latency higher while not in calls, this sucks
Jun 13 19:21:27 <ds3> +for real time apps :(
Jun 13 19:21:33 <ds3> blah sorry
Jun 13 19:21:50 <DrGrov> Anyone up for some theme testing? Let me know
Jun 13 19:23:00 <GAN900> Seems like all themes out are testing themes.
Jun 13 19:23:19 <GAN900> DrGrov, just push it to Extras-devel?
Jun 13 19:23:27 <melmoth> according to http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon , fakeroot apt-get install libqt4-dev should works
Jun 13 19:23:38 * melmoth thinks there is something rottent in finland.
Jun 13 19:24:10 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: and that "syncing to p link" introduces jitter to the buffering, and also add complexity in an amount you can't do different than just running to toilet a 3rd time, just FOR NOTHING
Jun 13 19:24:10 <DrGrov> GAN900: it is not my theme. it is the Nuvofre theme by Konttori
Jun 13 19:24:26 <GAN900> Ah
Jun 13 19:24:43 <DrGrov> GAN900: he asked me to test it so why not someone else also give it a test go?
Jun 13 19:25:03 * GAN900 hasn't tried it in a while.
Jun 13 19:25:04 <melmoth> libqt4-dev installation seems to work.
Jun 13 19:25:34 <DrGrov> GAN900: perhaps up for testing it? Seems to be perhaps a new version. Have not tried it myself yet but I got the link from konttori
Jun 13 19:26:00 <GAN900> DrGrov, is it in Extras-devel?
Jun 13 19:27:29 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizeryeah.\
Jun 13 19:27:56 <DrGrov> GAN900: i can link you to it. I got a straight link to the .deb. It should work from the browser right to install when I enter the address?
Jun 13 19:28:30 <kW_> Hello! Has enybody experience with extract the contents of an ubifs image?
Jun 13 19:29:19 <SpeedEvil> kW_: There is a howto on the wiki. It's not pretty - and I forget where it is - I suggest searching ubifs
Jun 13 19:29:47 <kW_> SpeedEvil: well, I have the howto, but unfortunately, it does not work for me
Jun 13 19:30:33 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 13 19:30:49 <SpeedEvil> Well - work out wehrre it's breaking, and start reading docs
Jun 13 19:30:55 <DrGrov> GAN900: you get my PM ?
Jun 13 19:31:42 <DrGrov> Can I install deb packages directly with my browser if I enter the address to the .deb file?
Jun 13 19:32:00 <MohammadAG51> game's back
Jun 13 19:32:00 <MohammadAG51> yes, you can
Jun 13 19:32:11 <MohammadAG51> i suggest you don't install debian packages
Jun 13 19:32:22 <kW_> SpeedEvil: it breaks here: http://pastebin.com/ApkYBTbq
Jun 13 19:32:35 <yuizy_> is there any app to send sms through n900 using desktop pc
Jun 13 19:33:00 <DrGrov> MohammadAG51: it is a theme?
Jun 13 19:33:07 <DrGrov> MohammadAG51: it is the Nuvofre theme
Jun 13 19:33:12 <MohammadAG51> why not
Jun 13 19:33:25 <MohammadAG51> yuizy_, an X11 server, kinda
Jun 13 19:33:32 <MohammadAG51> huh
Jun 13 19:33:35 <DrGrov> MohammadAG51: so a theme i can install? it is the 1.08 version that konttori released for testing purposes
Jun 13 19:34:02 <MohammadAG51> sure, why wouldn't u be able to install it
Jun 13 19:34:22 <DrGrov> MohammadAG51: you said that you don't suggest me to install debian packages?
Jun 13 19:34:55 <MohammadAG51> packages.debian.org
Jun 13 19:35:00 <MohammadAG51> those packages
Jun 13 19:35:07 <DrGrov> MohammadAG51: ah sorry, my mistake
Jun 13 19:35:09 <yuizy_> MohammadAG51: how would that work?
Jun 13 19:35:24 <DrGrov> MohammadAG51: i will give it a test go now then. the browser will automagically install the package for me?
Jun 13 19:35:34 <MohammadAG51> yuizy_, it clones your whole screen
Jun 13 19:35:43 <MohammadAG51> no, it will open the app manager
Jun 13 19:35:48 <MohammadAG51> just try it
Jun 13 19:35:58 <DrGrov> MohammadAG51: ok, i try :)
Jun 13 19:41:21 <shorter> how do you make a movie that is widescreen go fullscreen? It seems like it is the correct aspect ratio to use the entire screen...
Jun 13 19:41:33 <shorter> also, is there a package for more audio codecs?
Jun 13 19:45:40 <DocScrutinizer> /me prints out pp9+10 of http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf and pins it to the wall, with ""Cellular Modem sends up-link timing adjustment messages"" highlighted and underlined in red
Jun 13 19:45:55 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, germany's kicking ass
Jun 13 19:46:03 <xDaReaperx> yeah
Jun 13 19:46:03 <DocScrutinizer> not mine
Jun 13 19:46:44 <DocScrutinizer> I'm lame of laughter from reading ""Cellular Modem sends up-link timing adjustment messages""
Jun 13 19:47:40 <Stskeeps> blog about it, makes you seem less condemning :P
Jun 13 19:56:22 <MohammadAG51> LOLOL
Jun 13 19:56:28 <MohammadAG51> LOOOOOOOOOL
Jun 13 19:56:33 <MohammadAG51> 4-0
Jun 13 19:56:35 <adeus> a slaughtering
Jun 13 19:57:38 <konfoo> deutschland uber alles
Jun 13 19:58:26 <shorter> are there any more audio codecs to install?
Jun 13 19:59:06 <shorter> Selected audio codec: [ffac3] afm: ffmpeg works on linux, but not sure about the n900
Jun 13 19:59:13 <shorter> via mplayer
Jun 13 20:00:25 <shorter> also, I'm wondering why it leaves puts big bars for a 16:9 movie rather than fullscreening it
Jun 13 20:02:40 <DocScrutinizer51> shorter: you probably should fix the config
Jun 13 20:05:47 <DocScrutinizer51> maybe the original media is a 4:3, with letterbox black bars actually inside the video content. And you try to playback that 4:3 on a 16:9 screen, which will result inn black bars left and right?
Jun 13 20:12:37 <alterego> I'm kinda confused, is the next device going to be an N9-01?
Jun 13 20:14:03 <konttori> alterego: how could we know?
Jun 13 20:14:21 <konttori> I mean, I work inside and even I don't know.
Jun 13 20:14:55 <MohammadAG51> alterego, it'll be an NX11
Jun 13 20:15:54 <alterego> Heh
Jun 13 20:16:22 <DocScrutinizer51> the net device *might* be a RX-71
Jun 13 20:16:26 <alterego> yeah, it was a silly question based on the N900 possibly being the N9-00 ... :)
Jun 13 20:16:55 <alterego> And this new naming scheme (rumour?)
Jun 13 20:17:49 <DocScrutinizer51> konttori: seems USSD and network control codes still not completely functional on PR1.2
Jun 13 20:18:10 <konttori> yeah, can't remember the exact details that were not there
Jun 13 20:19:21 <DocScrutinizer51> I don't understand what's so terribly hard in allowing all possible controll codes to be sent to the operator
Jun 13 20:19:51 <alterego> I had this weird dream last night were there was an exploit in the N900 that allowed people to remotely execute USSD codes by sending DTMF on an active call to an N900
Jun 13 20:19:56 <DocScrutinizer51> e.g I heard ##61# doesn't work
Jun 13 20:20:46 <MohammadAG51> 4-0, game's over
Jun 13 20:20:50 <DocScrutinizer51> alterego: lol, nice
Jun 13 20:21:26 <MohammadAG51> alterego, I dreamt I lost my USB port after DocScrutinizer51 fixed host mode
Jun 13 20:23:21 <konttori> lcuk: has the cool live homescreen stuff been put out ? any cool bgs?
Jun 13 20:23:40 <konttori> Has the one Kimmo had been working on been published?
Jun 13 20:27:49 <DrGrov> Can the battery draining be dependent on a particular theme?
Jun 13 20:42:06 <lcuk> damn he left
Jun 13 20:42:17 * lcuk kicks n900 anyway
Jun 13 20:42:25 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: ?? o.O
Jun 13 20:42:40 <HtheB__> exit
Jun 13 20:42:56 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, konttori asked a question
Jun 13 20:43:01 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Jun 13 20:43:02 <lcuk> but i was just looking up fromcoding
Jun 13 20:43:14 <lcuk> and i managed to use more power than i was charging from
Jun 13 20:43:18 <lcuk> continuously
Jun 13 20:43:31 <DocScrutinizer> that's bad
Jun 13 20:43:59 <lcuk> running the camera with fullscreen brightness and sending reams of data over the network (and i do mean reams, multiple debug lines *per pixel*
Jun 13 20:44:01 <DocScrutinizer> I thought I heard maemo is rising a warning notifier on that?
Jun 13 20:44:09 <lcuk> yeah i saw that hours ago
Jun 13 20:45:28 <DocScrutinizer> probably a warning isn't really helpful, should be a persistent flag, like battery charging icon switching color to orange, or whatever. Anyway something where you can tell the situation still persists
Jun 13 20:45:38 <DrGrov> Can the battery draining be dependent on a particular theme?
Jun 13 20:46:00 <DocScrutinizer> unlikely
Jun 13 20:46:12 <DrGrov> DocScrutinizer: good, thanks for a quick reply :)
Jun 13 20:46:25 <DrGrov> DocScrutinizer: i started using the NuvoFre theme by konttori. Damn it is so sexy
Jun 13 20:46:44 <brik> anyone here have any experience with grabbing/ungrabbing key events on maemo?
Jun 13 20:47:07 <lcuk> brik, you mean with a daemon or just in process whilst your app is in focus
Jun 13 20:48:34 <DrGrov> Problems with the maemo.org repositories? Anyone got the same issue?
Jun 13 20:48:41 <shorter> DocScrutinizer, if you're asking if the letterbox black bars are in the actual video, then no they aren't
Jun 13 20:48:49 <shorter> but which config are you saying I could fix?
Jun 13 20:48:56 <shorter> (sorry for the delay)
Jun 13 20:49:12 <DocScrutinizer> shorter: sorry, just wild guessing.
Jun 13 20:49:17 <DocScrutinizer> kinda
Jun 13 20:49:48 <shorter> well are there settings for aspect ratio on any video apps for the n900?
Jun 13 20:49:55 <DocScrutinizer> if it's not a video with letterbox bars in it, then obviously it has to be an config issue
Jun 13 20:49:55 <shorter> I enjoy your guesswork
Jun 13 20:50:16 <shorter> I mean, which config
Jun 13 20:50:38 <DocScrutinizer> no expert for mplayer/whatever video playback here
Jun 13 20:52:20 <DocScrutinizer> but afaik you pass all the details to mplayer as cmdline parameters
Jun 13 20:53:30 <DocScrutinizer> well, maybe a few of them are from X or whatever
Jun 13 20:53:55 <DocScrutinizer> DPI, aspect ratio of actual physical screen, dunno
Jun 13 20:54:18 <jacekowski> i think everyghing can be overriden with cmdline anyways
Jun 13 20:57:08 <brik> lcuk: I have a setting to enable using volume keys for changing font size, when enabling it it works fine, but when disabling it - it doesn't get disabled until the window has refreshed
Jun 13 20:58:50 <lcuk> brik, refresh the window then?
Jun 13 21:00:06 <shorter> how about the codec, DocScrutinizer?
Jun 13 21:01:36 <shorter> hmm, I thought this had no compass functionality, maep thinks it knows which way I'm turning
Jun 13 21:02:45 <SpeedEvil> It doesn't
Jun 13 21:02:52 <SpeedEvil> it's assuming you're moving forward
Jun 13 21:02:57 <lcuk> shorter, every gps knows to a rough approximation based on gps history
Jun 13 21:03:05 <lcuk> but its fine grained for just standing still
Jun 13 21:03:13 <SpeedEvil> Assuming you're moving forward
Jun 13 21:03:21 <SpeedEvil> This generally fails if you are moving under 1mph or so
Jun 13 21:03:22 <lcuk> its not ^
Jun 13 21:03:28 <shorter> ah, indeed
Jun 13 21:03:36 <shorter> so it only knows change in location
Jun 13 21:03:39 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 13 21:03:43 <shorter> lol, I was turning around in my chair and it was changing
Jun 13 21:03:52 <shorter> "omg it werks"
Jun 13 21:04:06 <SpeedEvil> It probably also works if you sit still :)
Jun 13 21:04:12 <SpeedEvil> (it changes)
Jun 13 21:05:19 <shorter> you know where I can get more codecs SpeedEvil?
Jun 13 21:05:50 <shorter> [ffac3] afm: ffmpeg - is what the video uses on my linux desktop
Jun 13 21:05:55 <SpeedEvil> no
Jun 13 21:11:58 <crashanddie> lolwut... the only game I don't watch there's 4 goals?
Jun 13 21:17:27 <PolarFox> crashanddie: Godz of sensible men are punishing you for watching football at all.
Jun 13 21:17:53 <crashanddie> PolarFox: I'll watch anything
Jun 13 21:18:16 <crashanddie> in order of preference: tennis, cricket, rugby, football
Jun 13 21:18:27 <crashanddie> with tennis about a million miles in front of anything else
Jun 13 21:19:22 <crashanddie> PolarFox: A sensible man is punishing you for believing in gods at all.
Jun 13 21:19:36 <lcuk> crashanddie, tennis for the game or for the bouncing boo errr balls
Jun 13 21:20:07 <crashanddie> Well, anything that has bouncy balls has my attention (except for gay porn)
Jun 13 21:20:39 <crashanddie> but yeah, tennis for the game, the players, the tactics, the effect of the crowd on the players and their game, etc
Jun 13 21:21:06 <crashanddie> it's the only game where you can see a guy go from acing each serve to not even bothering going after an easy ball because of the crowd's reactions
Jun 13 21:21:17 <shorter> didn't realize how many of these applications ive installed make something run in the background and eat battery
Jun 13 21:22:10 <joga> well...the processes are probably mostly just sleeping
Jun 13 21:22:33 <lcuk> apart from when they arent
Jun 13 21:22:47 <lcuk> shorter, depends on what you do and how often they things monitoring wakeup
Jun 13 21:22:51 <joga> depends of course on the prog but generally having them in the background doesn't necessarily mean they're doing anything
Jun 13 21:23:22 <shorter> so I shouldn't disable their startup?
Jun 13 21:23:25 <shorter> like sshd for example
Jun 13 21:23:29 <shorter> which I'm almost always not using
Jun 13 21:24:03 <joga> the sshd statusbar applet thingy is pretty useful
Jun 13 21:24:19 <joga> if you occasionally want t
Jun 13 21:24:22 <joga> *it
Jun 13 21:24:50 <joga> well...time to crash, good night...
Jun 13 21:34:50 <shorter> hmm, I wonder if I can cache like 10gigs of maps for offline work
Jun 13 21:38:18 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Jun 13 21:40:51 <mece> hello
Jun 13 21:44:09 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: ping
Jun 13 21:45:36 <DocScrutinizer51> if you don't want sshd running, then maybe xinetd is the right ting for you
Jun 13 21:49:08 <shorter> well that app worked - now only port 53 is open
Jun 13 21:51:05 <shorter> yall install bash3?
Jun 13 21:51:07 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway I feel rather happy about sshd each time I need to quickly check sth wrt maemo when sitting on my laptop and phone is 2 rooms away. And every time the damn screen is broken :-P
Jun 13 21:51:36 <MohammadAG> what's dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
Jun 13 21:59:51 <MohammadAG> * MohammadAG51 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) <-- always remember to remove all bind mount before removing a directory with /dev/ and /proc mounted
Jun 13 22:02:15 <DrGrov> Anyone tested to stream some World Cup games on the N900?
Jun 13 22:02:37 <vldcnst> whats the stream source?
Jun 13 22:03:14 <DrGrov> I have not tested but wonder if anyone have tested
Jun 13 22:03:36 <DrGrov> I might test tomorrow if I am not in front of the computer or tv to watch the early game between Netherlands - Denmark
Jun 13 22:03:40 <vldcnst> I'm streaming just fine yup
Jun 13 22:03:49 <MohammadAG> on the N900?
Jun 13 22:04:27 <DrGrov> yes, on the N900. Hope it works
Jun 13 22:05:28 <MohammadAG> that was @ vldcnst
Jun 13 22:05:46 <vldcnst> to the n900, yes
Jun 13 22:06:55 <MohammadAG> vldcnst, how/what stream?
Jun 13 22:07:15 <vldcnst> MohammadAG, knots and dvb
Jun 13 22:07:31 <kW_> MohammadAG: Do you know whether it is possible to enable serial-over-USB on the N900?
Jun 13 22:08:19 <MohammadAG> serial-over-USB?
Jun 13 22:08:29 <MohammadAG> USB networking?
Jun 13 22:08:50 <kW_> MohammadAG: the former, but the latter would be fine, too
Jun 13 22:09:07 <kW_> (I need this when nothing in the system is setup, e.g. during a script caleld by /sbin/preinit)
Jun 13 22:09:37 <MohammadAG> http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking
Jun 13 22:09:46 <MohammadAG> Oh
Jun 13 22:09:55 <MohammadAG> well, there was a bootmenu mod for it
Jun 13 22:10:27 <kW_> (it is just for debugging why my booting modifications fail for some reason...)
Jun 13 22:10:28 <DocScrutinizer51> serial over usb commonly known as usb rs232 adapter?
Jun 13 22:10:54 <MohammadAG> it's not RS232 iirc
Jun 13 22:11:05 <DocScrutinizer51> or the thing e.g. uBoot does
Jun 13 22:11:27 <DocScrutinizer51> ttyUSB0
Jun 13 22:12:34 <MohammadAG> http://metalab.at/wiki/Hack-A-N900/Usb_Recovery_Mode
Jun 13 22:12:49 <DocScrutinizer51> usb etworking is yet another ting
Jun 13 22:12:53 <MohammadAG> The boot menu mod works, USB networking didn't work for me, but I was quite a n00b when I tried it
Jun 13 22:13:07 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, yeah, but he said it'd work equally as well for what he's doing
Jun 13 22:13:25 <DocScrutinizer51> oh, ok
Jun 13 22:13:40 <DocScrutinizer51> nvm, me raming...
Jun 13 22:13:43 <DocScrutinizer51> afk
Jun 13 22:13:47 <MohammadAG> I really want the serial console thing though
Jun 13 22:13:55 <DocScrutinizer51> roaming even
Jun 13 22:14:28 <DocScrutinizer51> Ikarus: ?? any news?
Jun 13 22:14:53 <kW_> well... starting WLAN using WPA instead of usbnet would be overkill, wouldn't it?
Jun 13 22:15:44 <pupnik> very interesting  MohammadAG
Jun 13 22:15:50 <MohammadAG> debootstrap's validating step is kinda fooked
Jun 13 22:15:59 <kW_> MohammadAG: maybe you know something different: is it possible to get a normal console on the N900 screen?
Jun 13 22:15:59 <MohammadAG> it validated files for a wrong distro
Jun 13 22:16:21 <MohammadAG> framebuffer, you need a custom kernel, and it won't work (at least to my knowledge) on maemo
Jun 13 22:16:40 <MohammadAG> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Fedora
Jun 13 22:17:24 <kW_> hm... I have the "power" kernel
Jun 13 22:17:44 <MohammadAG> There's no precompiled binary for one w/ a framebuffer
Jun 13 22:17:47 <MohammadAG> which is kinda sad
Jun 13 22:18:05 <MohammadAG> Load average: 10.08 6.00 4.4 \o/
Jun 13 22:24:55 <kW_> Ok, I think I got it. :-) Now I have Maemo 5 PR 1.2 running on a 20GB encrypted root :-)
Jun 13 22:25:19 <Corsac> did you do a howto?
Jun 13 22:25:23 <mece> shit, i've uploaded 3 busted packages in a row
Jun 13 22:25:29 <MohammadAG> xD
Jun 13 22:25:50 <kW_> no, I just tried to make it work :-)
Jun 13 22:26:14 <mece> annoying when they all work nicely when built at home, but the autobuilder versions either miss deps or segfault on launch.
Jun 13 22:26:20 <kW_> Is it possiblet to disable watchdogs _without_ getting into R&D mode?
Jun 13 22:26:33 <MohammadAG> yeah... no
Jun 13 22:26:42 <MohammadAG> well, you can try the Mer way I guess
Jun 13 22:26:55 <kW_> MohammadAG: which is?
Jun 13 22:28:13 <kW_> "The keyboard backlight behind the left and right side of the keyboard flickers in response to system activity. " is quite annoying when using a phone for production, but I need to tame the watchdogs in order to have sufficient time to enter the passphrase
Jun 13 22:28:42 <MohammadAG> kW_, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Fedora#watchdog_other
Jun 13 22:30:28 <pupnik> http://www.vgmpf.com/Music/SeikenDensetsu3-SFC/14%20-%20Innocent%20Sea.ogg  wonderful song from SNES Seiken Densetsu soundtrack
Jun 13 22:30:43 <kW_> MohammadAG: thank you :-)
Jun 13 22:31:59 <DocScrutinizer51> kW_: patch the kernel
Jun 13 22:32:23 <kW_> DocScrutinizer51: for the kernel to do what?
Jun 13 22:32:26 <MohammadAG> kW_, np
Jun 13 22:33:24 <DocScrutinizer51> for the kernel not to wake the watchdog(+)
Jun 13 22:33:56 <SpeedEvil> Or maybe there are simply flags to turn off hte watchdog
Jun 13 22:34:31 <DocScrutinizer51> also a posibility
Jun 13 22:35:46 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, BAD news: used QAudioInput on a N900, tried to record some audio in an interactive app. guess how much the latency was ? :)
Jun 13 22:35:54 <MohammadAG> there are flags, he doesn't want them
Jun 13 22:35:57 <DocScrutinizer51> once a watchdog is awake it's its nature not to sleep
Jun 13 22:35:58 <MohammadAG> 1?
Jun 13 22:36:09 <SpeedEvil> http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/ - see that kW_
Jun 13 22:36:09 <MohammadAG> I tamed the watchdog
Jun 13 22:36:14 <kW_> MohammadAG: the script depends on  /usr/sbin/wd_keepalive which does not seem to be preinstalled in maemo and which I also cannot find...
Jun 13 22:36:26 <SpeedEvil> benno2: 3 hours 24 minutes.
Jun 13 22:36:27 <DocScrutinizer51> benno2: 2s?
Jun 13 22:36:29 <benno2> 4000-5000msec latency with QAudioInput,
Jun 13 22:36:40 <SpeedEvil> ...
Jun 13 22:36:43 <DocScrutinizer51> ouch
Jun 13 22:36:45 <MohammadAG> kW_, check the mer rootfs image
Jun 13 22:36:46 <SpeedEvil> That is quite bad.
Jun 13 22:36:48 <benno2> I don't know if I should laugh or cry
Jun 13 22:36:49 <kW_> MohammadAG: well, the flags are fine, but I do not want the need for R&D-mode
Jun 13 22:37:00 * SpeedEvil checks that.
Jun 13 22:37:32 <DocScrutinizer51> benno2: see the 'policy enforcing engine" in the paper you dug out
Jun 13 22:37:38 <benno2> how is a developer supposed to write an app for the N900 if by using the official Qt API getting those bad values
Jun 13 22:38:16 <benno2> DocScrutinizer51, but VOIP apps achieve lower latencies, so there must be a way. any idea which app I should look at ? (open source)
Jun 13 22:39:28 <DocScrutinizer51> also you can ccess low level alsa soundcard drive directly, on the expense of screwing PA
Jun 13 22:40:00 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm
Jun 13 22:40:11 <DocScrutinizer51> not on maemo, sorry
Jun 13 22:40:21 <DocScrutinizer51> libtelepathy? nope
Jun 13 22:40:26 <SpeedEvil> With arecord, it's more like 0.25s
Jun 13 22:40:47 <SpeedEvil> record  -f cdr test.wav -t raw -V stereo
Jun 13 22:40:59 <SpeedEvil> oh
Jun 13 22:41:19 <DocScrutinizer51> check the paper, ther,s a 'voice sink'
Jun 13 22:42:19 <DocScrutinizer51> and that policy engine
Jun 13 22:42:25 <SpeedEvil> It's more like 0.15 (I forgot ssh latency)
Jun 13 22:42:42 <DocScrutinizer51> which is the modern complement of alsactl
Jun 13 22:43:02 <benno2> DocScrutinizer51, I would like to write an app which is system friendly and is interactive.  I found this document, any idea if one needs to use libplayback, OHM,PEP ?  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Multimedia_Domain#Audio_Subsystem
Jun 13 22:43:49 <DocScrutinizer51> sorry Imm ircing in a pub right now. no way to check that
Jun 13 22:43:52 <pupnik> benno2: nice graphic
Jun 13 22:44:56 <DocScrutinizer51> ttyl
Jun 13 22:45:06 <benno2> SpeedEvil, that 0.2sec  would be much better, wondering what arecord does differently since QAudioInput too uses ALSA
Jun 13 22:45:22 <SpeedEvil> Dunno.
Jun 13 22:45:40 <benno2> SpeedEvil, the question is what device is arecord using in your case ? if you launch it with -v (verbose) it should show it
Jun 13 22:46:56 <kW_> MohammadAG: maybe there is a possibility to simply increase the watchout timeout interval (e.g. to 3 minutes)?
Jun 13 22:47:46 <SpeedEvil> http://pastebin.ca/1882530 benno2
Jun 13 22:48:04 <SpeedEvil> Oh
Jun 13 22:48:10 * SpeedEvil pokes lcuk
Jun 13 22:48:19 <SpeedEvil> audio input - delay latency?
Jun 13 22:48:24 <benno2> SpeedEvil, could you use a unix pipe to test the input output latency ? mkfifo /tmp/fifo  ,  and then piping the raw audio to that pipe and aplay reading from it so you should hear what you say in real time (with a short delay)
Jun 13 22:48:28 * SpeedEvil points at benno2's question above
Jun 13 22:48:56 <MohammadAG> kW_, not sure about that, but you probably need a custom kernel
Jun 13 22:50:14 <kW_> it looks like http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/0.17testing4/mer-armel-generic-image-v0.17testing4.tar.gz does not contain a Mer image anymore...
Jun 13 22:51:14 <pupnik> benno2: can do that with gstreamer from commandline
Jun 13 22:51:27 <benno2> SpeedEvil, thanks for the info.  I see period_size 5512, buffer_size 22050, quite a lot !
Jun 13 22:51:50 <benno2> pupnik, if you can try it please (no N900 handy ATM)
Jun 13 22:52:23 <pupnik> also benno2 to see what alsa is using for buffer..
Jun 13 22:52:26 <pupnik> cat /proc/asound/RX51/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params
Jun 13 22:53:08 <SpeedEvil> ben: not working for some reason
Jun 13 22:53:13 <SpeedEvil> ben: that's half a second
Jun 13 22:53:15 <pupnik> some more notes http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=442596&postcount=6
Jun 13 22:53:23 <SpeedEvil> benno2: err - 1/4
Jun 13 22:53:28 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: PIPE?? "arecord|aplay"
Jun 13 22:53:36 <benno2> SpeedEvill what do you get with:  cat /proc/asound/RX51/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params
Jun 13 22:53:40 <SpeedEvil> benno2: which is about what I 'measured' - by banging on the mic and looking for the peak
Jun 13 22:53:45 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: doesn't want to know
Jun 13 22:54:06 <SpeedEvil> 'closed'
Jun 13 22:54:44 <crashanddie> BALLS
Jun 13 22:55:00 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, I honestly did not try to combine arecord and aplay to act as a fullduplex audio system, pipe | might work
Jun 13 22:55:01 <crashanddie> I fucking hate it when the browser crashes about 2/3 in a long post
Jun 13 22:55:22 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: that for sure isn't the buffer used by alsa<->PCM PA plugin
Jun 13 22:55:25 <SpeedEvil> http://pastebin.ca/1882534
Jun 13 22:55:49 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: works great even over ssh :-P
Jun 13 22:55:50 <mece> crrrraaaap!
Jun 13 22:56:02 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: that is the buffer alsa uses when talking to the hw subsystem, at the end of the chain
Jun 13 22:56:08 <DocScrutinizer> used that to copy mic of Freerunner to a laptop
Jun 13 22:56:11 <SpeedEvil> crashanddie: There exist form history things that save that
Jun 13 22:56:18 <pupnik> in the general case it is set by PA
Jun 13 22:56:20 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: axactly
Jun 13 22:56:38 <crashanddie> SpeedEvil: nha, it's blogger, so it autosaves every twenty nano seconds
Jun 13 22:56:56 <DocScrutinizer> pico
Jun 13 22:57:07 <kW_> http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/0.16/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.16.tar.gz is a Mer image, but it does not contain "/usr/sbin/wd_keepalive"...
Jun 13 22:58:12 <benno2> SpeedEvil, thanks. that looks like the real hw device,  buffer size 1920, so 2 channels, 16bit = 480samples / 48000 = 10msec
Jun 13 22:58:58 <benno2> the question is can an user space app access the real alsa device and not the one emulated by pulse audio
Jun 13 22:59:02 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: should work, if not then you got problems with arecord input device or aplay output device. For arecord I wouldn't be astonished to find 'default' doesn't work for record source
Jun 13 22:59:28 <SpeedEvil> It was working - I was banging on the mic - and the vumeter was bouncing
Jun 13 22:59:34 <SpeedEvil> However - playing audio wasn't
Jun 13 22:59:38 <benno2> I mean without killing pulse audio. the app should be system friendly and not requiring the user to do something special like killing and restarting daemons
Jun 13 22:59:39 <SpeedEvil> hmm
Jun 13 23:00:24 * SpeedEvil wants to at some point work out how idle the device can be when playing audio.
Jun 13 23:00:43 <SpeedEvil> I want to know if the audio 'card' can simply take a 10 meg buffer, and play it
Jun 13 23:00:47 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: (can a user...) can, if you accept the limitations as mentioned above. Might freak PA
Jun 13 23:01:46 <SpeedEvil> funky
Jun 13 23:01:54 * SpeedEvil wonders how he's totally killed sound
Jun 13 23:02:18 <DocScrutinizer> you tried to playback tru alsa?
Jun 13 23:02:31 <SpeedEvil> no
Jun 13 23:03:03 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-06-14 00:59:35] <SpeedEvil> However - playing audio wasn't
Jun 13 23:03:39 <SpeedEvil> Ok - somehow the audio has gotten wedged into going to the speakers
Jun 13 23:03:46 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: just using aplay/record
Jun 13 23:03:55 <SpeedEvil> s/speakers/phones/
Jun 13 23:03:55 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
Jun 13 23:03:57 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, I can only pray that Meego will clear this mess, since other companies like intel are involved perhaps they dumped some of this nonsense. looks nice on paper but works crappy in practice
Jun 13 23:04:27 <DocScrutinizer> you bet it's crap
Jun 13 23:04:39 <SpeedEvil> Aha
Jun 13 23:04:40 <DocScrutinizer> the concept is flawed
Jun 13 23:04:44 <SpeedEvil> Ok - that works now
Jun 13 23:04:51 <SpeedEvil> I get wierd delayed feedback noises
Jun 13 23:04:52 <DocScrutinizer> what works now
Jun 13 23:04:56 <benno2> SpeedEvil, verdict ?
Jun 13 23:05:01 <DocScrutinizer> nice :-D
Jun 13 23:05:05 <SpeedEvil> arecord|aplay
Jun 13 23:05:10 <DocScrutinizer> hehehe
Jun 13 23:05:13 <SpeedEvil> It sounds like a 1960s dr who
Jun 13 23:05:19 <DocScrutinizer> usually has a rtt ~500ms
Jun 13 23:05:24 <DocScrutinizer> or less
Jun 13 23:05:30 <SpeedEvil> around a second
Jun 13 23:05:36 <DocScrutinizer> eeew
Jun 13 23:05:53 <SpeedEvil> that is - one tap generates a ~1hz cycle
Jun 13 23:05:55 <benno2> SpeedEvil, keep in mind that unix pipes introduce some delay too, probably the pipe is a few kbytes so it might still not be the best the system can achieve
Jun 13 23:06:08 <SpeedEvil> I know
Jun 13 23:06:10 <DocScrutinizer> arecord -D hw:0.0
Jun 13 23:06:14 <DocScrutinizer> or 0.1
Jun 13 23:06:18 <DocScrutinizer> or 1.0
Jun 13 23:06:20 <DocScrutinizer> ?
Jun 13 23:07:41 <DocScrutinizer> nota bene you can advice arecord/play to use arbitrary buffer sizes etc
Jun 13 23:08:02 <mece> why autobuilder, Why are you killing my wesnoth?!
Jun 13 23:08:05 <DocScrutinizer> you can config almost everything, as aplay also is the test app for alsa
Jun 13 23:08:26 <DocScrutinizer> the reference implementation
Jun 13 23:10:06 <DocScrutinizer> the only thing not used in aplay/record is buffer skipping as used in twinkle, and that's why twinkle fails with PA's vrappy ALSA compatibility plugin - they never even cared about implemeting that call in a semi decent way
Jun 13 23:11:39 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, so do I understand it correctly that the N900 provides a real ALSA hw interface (10msec latency hw buf), pulse audio hijacks it and provides the crappy high latency alsa device to user space apps ?  still wondering how voip apps like skype get their work done
Jun 13 23:11:45 <DocScrutinizer> maybe skipping wasn't the correct term
Jun 13 23:12:15 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: obviously, yes. exactly
Jun 13 23:12:48 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: look at p15 of the unbelievable paper
Jun 13 23:13:18 <DocScrutinizer> ""ALSA hw:0 \n the reular ALSA device""
Jun 13 23:13:28 <DocScrutinizer> regular even
Jun 13 23:14:02 <DocScrutinizer> which is ALSA sink/source in the PA domain
Jun 13 23:14:27 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, ALSA provides a software mixing layer which can be sample accurate, wondering why they did not use it and let the app developer the possibility open to use hw alsa directly
Jun 13 23:14:33 <DocScrutinizer> then you got a voice sink/source, and a music sink
Jun 13 23:15:05 <MohammadAG> Downloading 400MBs on the N900's gonna take time
Jun 13 23:15:10 <MohammadAG> even worse is unpacking them
Jun 13 23:15:17 <SpeedEvil> There are constraints.
Jun 13 23:15:22 * MohammadAG disables PSM
Jun 13 23:15:29 <SpeedEvil> For example - you have to do the filtering also
Jun 13 23:15:29 <MohammadAG> would that even help?
Jun 13 23:15:31 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: dunno. Somebody every now and then claims dmix is buggy, but I always found it works like a charm and PA is buggy like dogshit
Jun 13 23:15:42 <SpeedEvil> and other stuff that's not in alsa
Jun 13 23:15:48 <SpeedEvil> but...
Jun 13 23:15:49 * benno2 agrees with DocScrutinizer 
Jun 13 23:16:13 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: With me - PSM does not decrease download speed.
Jun 13 23:16:25 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: It does affect some interactive stuff like X, or ssh
Jun 13 23:16:34 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: filtering? not in ALSA? c'mon
Jun 13 23:17:04 <SpeedEvil> It is?
Jun 13 23:17:09 <SpeedEvil> oh well.
Jun 13 23:17:23 <MohammadAG> Oh, so it wouldn't help :/
Jun 13 23:17:32 * MohammadAG wants a quad core armel cpu
Jun 13 23:17:36 <DocScrutinizer> there's LADSPA, you can't do the things that can't be done with LADSPA
Jun 13 23:18:08 <MohammadAG> 23 minutes, that's not bad
Jun 13 23:18:08 <benno2> is there an open source VOIP app which works well on the N900 ? (in order to look at the code what's the magic key to achieve latencies that are not measured in centuries)
Jun 13 23:18:12 <SpeedEvil> echo cancellation?
Jun 13 23:18:44 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: also notice they developed their own proprietary shit for PA. So they could have done for ALSA
Jun 13 23:18:53 <SpeedEvil> Indeed
Jun 13 23:19:16 <SpeedEvil> Or they could have put pulseaudio in kernel.
Jun 13 23:19:26 <DocScrutinizer> OMFG!!
Jun 13 23:19:45 <DocScrutinizer> kernel: tainted
Jun 13 23:19:58 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 13 23:20:42 <DocScrutinizer> I mean there's a *reason* why PA uses the ALSA soundcard kernel drivers
Jun 13 23:21:25 <benno2> SpeedEvil, no need for audio stuff which resides in the kernel. for example the jackd sound daemon is an userspace app. it uses alsa and runs with RT scheduling, kernel must be compiled with  real time support. it can easily achieve single digit latencies without dropouts, under high load and several active apps.
Jun 13 23:21:25 <DocScrutinizer> they're just not capable to come up with anything on par
Jun 13 23:22:09 <SpeedEvil> benno2: Things aren't always one sanely :/
Jun 13 23:22:13 <DocScrutinizer> but WHO NEEDS THAT?
Jun 13 23:22:22 <SpeedEvil> s/on/don/
Jun 13 23:22:22 <infobot> SpeedEvil meant: benno2: Things aren't always done sanely :/
Jun 13 23:22:54 <DocScrutinizer> maybe musiciians trying to run realtime effects on their computer. Then a 10ms latency might be too much
Jun 13 23:23:23 <DocScrutinizer> though even musicians seem to tolerate 50ms
Jun 13 23:23:48 <DocScrutinizer> I mean, that's 15m distance. So what?
Jun 13 23:24:13 <DocScrutinizer> ok, 16.5
Jun 13 23:24:19 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, it depends, sound travels 1meter in 3msec, so 10msec = loudspeaker at 3 meters distance. as said jack is capable of 3-5msec latency (input to output), and since most dsp based hw effects do use buffering too I don't think they do considerably better.
Jun 13 23:24:30 <DocScrutinizer> at a velocity of 330m/s
Jun 13 23:26:58 <DocScrutinizer> and that poor soul of sw engineer worries about 5ms latency on GSM - MUHAHAHA
Jun 13 23:27:15 <Mikkoviiva> buah
Jun 13 23:27:20 <kW_> How do I actually _disable_ R&D mode? It looks like when booting, the USB logo does not appear anymore..
Jun 13 23:27:40 <SpeedEvil> There is probably a nokia spec somewhere that says 'thou shalt keep under xms delay'
Jun 13 23:27:44 <benno2> IMHO next time nokia should better research what kind of architectures exist (eg audio) on linux and discuss that with the project devs rather than hire a local intern and then based on his findings make a device out of it. doomed to fail
Jun 13 23:27:50 <Martiini> professional soundcards advertise latencies below 6 sec
Jun 13 23:27:51 <SpeedEvil> Written in the days of the 3310
Jun 13 23:28:12 <MohammadAG> kW_, R&D mode doesn't have to do with the USB icon
Jun 13 23:28:13 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: the problem is there isn't. It just says "keep latency as low as possible"
Jun 13 23:28:20 <MohammadAG> anyways, flasher-3.5 --disable-rd-mode
Jun 13 23:28:45 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: how do you know?
Jun 13 23:28:51 <kW_> MohammadAG: well, this was my problem, the USB cable was simply not connected...
Jun 13 23:29:23 <MohammadAG> >.<
Jun 13 23:29:33 <Martiini> any development of Android take place here much`?
Jun 13 23:29:39 <MohammadAG> nope
Jun 13 23:29:40 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf  page 9 ""Cellular Call Latency Challenge""
Jun 13 23:29:47 <SpeedEvil> nope Martiini.
Jun 13 23:30:12 <SpeedEvil> Martiini: I suggest you try other channels - maybe ##politics for android development.
Jun 13 23:30:25 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: this together with the way the rest of this paper is written makes it obvious what requirement spec the poor sw eng got
Jun 13 23:30:53 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 13 23:31:15 <Martiini> Majority of software being written on Earth .. is just crap ... KDE, Gnome, Windows .. iphone, symbian ...
Jun 13 23:31:26 <Martiini> + you get PC games ...
Jun 13 23:31:28 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: "challenge" == 'the paper where my boss has written down what I need to do'
Jun 13 23:32:05 <Martiini> If only we would get simple things ... like a decent IRC app for linux  phones .. etc
Jun 13 23:32:50 <SpeedEvil> xchat works OK.
Jun 13 23:32:59 <Martiini> I mean .. You get 100 000 applications for iPhone .. how about a decent IRC application .. with contact saving support .. etc .. no
Jun 13 23:33:06 <SpeedEvil> but it's hardly for phones.
Jun 13 23:33:23 <marmoute> Martiini: irsii ?
Jun 13 23:33:24 <FredrIQ> martiini
Jun 13 23:33:30 <Martiini> xchat is not good enough .. quadrapassel is much better if you talk IRC clients
Jun 13 23:33:43 <FredrIQ> what's wrong with xchat
Jun 13 23:33:48 <SpeedEvil> wha'ts wrong with...
Jun 13 23:33:50 <SpeedEvil> what he said
Jun 13 23:34:07 <DocScrutinizer> contact saving - in IRC??
Jun 13 23:34:18 <FredrIQ> you also have kvirc if you really don't want to use xchat but it isn't customized for 800x480
Jun 13 23:34:29 <SpeedEvil> Also pidgin
Jun 13 23:34:35 <FredrIQ> and irssi
Jun 13 23:34:46 <DocScrutinizer> fsck pidgin
Jun 13 23:34:51 <Martiini> so .. to get features for IRC on a phone .. one needs xchat, pidgin, irssi ...
Jun 13 23:35:03 <FredrIQ> ..
Jun 13 23:35:07 <ali1234> i like the way pidgin makes irc look like any other protocol and wish that someone would make a half decent plugin for telepathy
Jun 13 23:35:20 <DocScrutinizer> only nice feature of pidgin is softscrolling. And I'm not sure I've seen this on maemo
Jun 13 23:35:35 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: also channel aliases.
Jun 13 23:35:40 <DocScrutinizer> ok
Jun 13 23:35:43 <DocScrutinizer> granted
Jun 13 23:36:02 <DocScrutinizer> chan aliases would be mad useful
Jun 13 23:36:05 <FredrIQ> martiini
Jun 13 23:36:16 <FredrIQ> what do you miss with xchat?
Jun 13 23:36:19 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: My pidgin setup is tabs down the righthand side, with the letters at 90 degrees - 'HOS' 'MD' 'ED' 'OSM' 'TP' ...
Jun 13 23:36:24 <Martiini> Android may become great if they get it right
Jun 13 23:36:40 <DocScrutinizer> nevr knew pidgin can do that. Maybe that relates to the <60min I was willing to cope with it
Jun 13 23:37:44 <DocScrutinizer> and that's been on OM, not on maemo
Jun 13 23:37:50 <MohammadAG> Android is kinda broken by design
Jun 13 23:37:54 <MohammadAG> broken linux that is
Jun 13 23:38:02 <pigeon> excuse my ignorance, but what is softscrolling?
Jun 13 23:38:17 <DocScrutinizer> errr
Jun 13 23:38:21 <MohammadAG> the opposite of hardscrolling of course
Jun 13 23:38:27 <Martiini> maemo/meego is based on fedora, .. correct ??
Jun 13 23:38:29 <SpeedEvil> Instead of jumping from line to line, it scrolls smoothly
Jun 13 23:38:33 <SpeedEvil> or it can
Jun 13 23:38:33 <MohammadAG> No
Jun 13 23:38:51 <MohammadAG> Maemo is based on Debian, MeeGo is based on RPM (didn't this originate on Red Hat?)
Jun 13 23:38:54 <pigeon> that would be smooth scrolling? no?
Jun 13 23:39:04 <FredrIQ> martiini, maemo were developed from debian but nowdays it isn't compatible with it anymore
Jun 13 23:39:09 <FredrIQ> pigeon, same thing
Jun 13 23:39:16 <pigeon> ok then
Jun 13 23:39:43 <Martiini> how about puppy linux .. anyone tried puppy ... super-efficient .. tiny , fast
Jun 13 23:39:54 <SpeedEvil> It smoothly scrolls up when a new line appears, with the new line coming into view slowly
Jun 13 23:40:02 <DocScrutinizer> FredrIQ: please don't torture my brain with such fuzzy stereotypes
Jun 13 23:40:15 <MohammadAG> currently installing Ubuntu 9.10
Jun 13 23:40:38 <FredrIQ> DocScrutinizer, eh?
Jun 13 23:41:19 <DocScrutinizer> FredrIQ: what for god's sake means ""maemo were developed from debian but nowdays it isn't compatible with it anymore""
Jun 13 23:41:37 <teilzeitstudent> Is the Phonet kernel stuff related to maemo (n900 anyway)? Just updating my kernel and I was wondering if I need that to get usb network running.
Jun 13 23:41:41 <DocScrutinizer> that's BS
Jun 13 23:41:45 <FIQ> well, go figure out
Jun 13 23:42:01 <SpeedEvil> phonet is required to get the phone to work
Jun 13 23:42:02 <SpeedEvil> AIUI
Jun 13 23:42:26 <teilzeitstudent> "aiui"?
Jun 13 23:42:34 <DocScrutinizer> ~wtf aiui
Jun 13 23:42:35 <infobot> AIUI: as I understand it
Jun 13 23:42:41 <teilzeitstudent> ah :p
Jun 13 23:43:10 <MohammadAG> hmm
Jun 13 23:43:26 <MohammadAG> ~wtf roflmaowpimp
Jun 13 23:43:27 <infobot> Gee...  I don't know what roflmaowpimp means...
Jun 13 23:43:30 <DocScrutinizer> phonet are the modem drivers (the short version of the story)
Jun 13 23:43:31 <MohammadAG> haha
Jun 13 23:43:40 <teilzeitstudent> So.. phonet is required on the device, but not on the host?
Jun 13 23:43:53 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Jun 13 23:43:57 <marmoute> ~wtf tla
Jun 13 23:43:59 <infobot> TLA: three letter acronym
Jun 13 23:44:03 <teilzeitstudent> Alright thanks
Jun 13 23:44:05 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, going to post some of my findings and problems with Qt audio on talk.maemo, let's see if one can suggest how to lower the latency. which forum should I chose ?
Jun 13 23:44:13 <DocScrutinizer> and it's needed for access to the GSM modem only
Jun 13 23:44:30 <DocScrutinizer> ~wtf etla
Jun 13 23:44:32 <infobot> ETLA: extended three letter acronym
Jun 13 23:45:29 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: !tmo?
Jun 13 23:46:07 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: honestly, tmo is the maemo badlands. If I had to guess, I'd opt for "n900"
Jun 13 23:46:53 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, I too tought to chose n900. I will report this as a BUG. a big BUG IMHO :) will it ignite a flameware ? :)
Jun 13 23:47:20 <DocScrutinizer> just everything ignites a flamewar on tmo
Jun 13 23:48:05 <DocScrutinizer> some of the users have multiple personalities so they can troll with themselves ;-P
Jun 13 23:48:48 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, I will try to be polite but describe the facts as they are, that Qt Audio in this form is useless for interactive apps.
Jun 13 23:49:23 <DocScrutinizer> one thing's for sure, you won't get a single bit of useful info iut of tmo, without sophisticated stuff like Kayman filters etc
Jun 13 23:50:03 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: all honest I'd suggest you better open a ticket
Jun 13 23:50:18 <DocScrutinizer> or post to devel ML
Jun 13 23:50:55 <benno2> DocScrutinizer: you mean better to post to maemo devel list ? (I'm subscribed)
Jun 13 23:51:06 <DocScrutinizer> nobody of the people you want to address is bothering to read tmo, I guess
Jun 13 23:51:25 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: yes, post to devel mailing list
Jun 13 23:51:40 <DocScrutinizer> and open a ticket on bugtracker
Jun 13 23:51:43 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, yeah might make sense what you said, too much noise.  so better the ML or open a bug report ? (what's the URL of maemo's bugtracker)
Jun 13 23:52:01 <DocScrutinizer> err, mompls
Jun 13 23:52:43 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Jun 13 23:52:50 <DocScrutinizer> bug #222
Jun 13 23:52:51 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=222 List of Maemo icons is missing
Jun 13 23:56:26 <kW_> MohammadAG: the wd_keepalive does not work :-(
Jun 13 23:59:46 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: I'd suggest you open the ticket, then post to ML and refer to it
Jun 14 00:01:13 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: in the ticket you're supposed to be terse on description of problem, and on ML you can elaborate on your thoughts and ask for alternative ways to implement what you need
Jun 14 00:02:45 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: wd_keepalive probably only works when it comes from the process that initiated aka awakened the watchdog
Jun 14 00:03:10 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: that's pure guessing
Jun 14 00:03:31 <kW_> DocScrutinizer: well, but the script here http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Fedora#watchdog_other suggests something different
Jun 14 00:03:40 <DocScrutinizer> ok
Jun 14 00:03:55 <DocScrutinizer> I easily might be completely wrong on that
Jun 14 00:04:29 <DocScrutinizer> *yawn*
Jun 14 00:04:38 <DocScrutinizer> hey it's loading
Jun 14 00:07:41 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: that's not exactly a script, that's a upstart file to start / stop a service
Jun 14 00:08:17 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, more a initfile
Jun 14 00:10:58 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, thanks for the tips. will do it! but probably today my concentration is too low to precisely write down the stuff precisely. I might even write some sample source because often the first response you get is, it's your fault, your code probably does something wrong,read thje API xyz, there is a low level acess API etc :)
Jun 14 00:11:25 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Jun 14 00:12:08 <DocScrutinizer> fair enough :-D a small proggi to demontrate the issue is probably best you can do, for a ticket
Jun 14 00:16:57 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, yes because no one can deny it and saves a lot of useless talking.  ok thanks again guys for your help. see you next time hopefully with a less buggy maemo :)
Jun 14 00:17:11 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: also /usr/sbin/wd_keepalive seems to not exist on maemo (I know it's fedora). So if you boot the maemo kernel, I wouldn't expect the way the watchdogs work on N900 is completely compatible with the wd_keepalive way
Jun 14 00:17:54 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: hope to see you next time soon, same place, with just a few news on the same old bug :-)
Jun 14 00:18:48 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: don't expect Nokia to release PR1.3 merely for fixing this issue, in 3weeks.
Jun 14 00:19:07 <kW_> DocScrutinizer: well, I used the wd_keepalive from fedora-arm-RPM packages
Jun 14 00:19:08 <DocScrutinizer> benno2: so probably here and devel ML is your best chance to get it sorted
Jun 14 00:19:30 * luke-jr wonders why Canonical writes a crappy replacement for standard system components and every other distro jumps onboard
Jun 14 00:20:21 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: ohnoes. Which one this time?
Jun 14 00:20:33 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: just the same init/cron => jumpstart
Jun 14 00:20:34 <DocScrutinizer> ~curse canonical
Jun 14 00:20:40 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, canonical !
Jun 14 00:20:41 <luke-jr> upstart*
Jun 14 00:21:06 <DocScrutinizer> well, upstart isn't a cononical nvention aiui
Jun 14 00:21:34 <DocScrutinizer> and actually upstart *could* be nice
Jun 14 00:22:06 <luke-jr> upstart does nothing that init-ng didn't already do
Jun 14 00:22:12 <luke-jr> other than trying to replace cron
Jun 14 00:22:21 <luke-jr> and upstart breaks my workflow
Jun 14 00:22:31 <DocScrutinizer> if it were used the way it's been intended and not as a cheap crappy replacement for init
Jun 14 00:22:38 <luke-jr> I type /etc/init.d/service action and it whines to type something else
Jun 14 00:22:50 <GAN900> Jaffa, ping?
Jun 14 00:23:05 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: ack
Jun 14 00:23:46 <DocScrutinizer> on a device like N900 upstart concept make a damn lot of sense
Jun 14 00:24:15 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: what benefit over init-ng?
Jun 14 00:24:25 <DocScrutinizer> event driven by design
Jun 14 00:25:15 <DocScrutinizer> so everything like e.g shutting down modem for flightmode should be handled by upstart
Jun 14 00:26:06 <DocScrutinizer> as upstart is supposed to manage services all the lifetime, not just boot up the system
Jun 14 00:26:13 <MohammadAG> didn't you say GSM during flights causing problems is really just a rumor :P
Jun 14 00:26:22 <GAN900> Damn, I guess it's done.
Jun 14 00:26:31 * GAN900 was playing softball.
Jun 14 00:26:34 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: and init-ng doesn't do that how?
Jun 14 00:26:47 <luke-jr> MohammadAG: it causes problems for the device at least..
Jun 14 00:27:25 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: sure you can implement all this with init-ng as well. It's just more elegant in upstart, more generic
Jun 14 00:28:03 * luke-jr doubts it
Jun 14 00:28:29 <xim_> is it possible to set an application to launch when the headphones are plugged in?
Jun 14 00:28:48 <GAN900> xim_, yes
Jun 14 00:29:18 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: I haven't dealt with upstart much, just read he project homepage some 2 years ago, and it was really more appealing than it looked like when you look at it from a init-ng_replacement POV
Jun 14 00:29:57 <xim_> GAN900, would one use the headphones daemon package for that?
Jun 14 00:30:10 <xim_> seemed from the description to just send an interrupt when they were unplugged
Jun 14 00:30:25 <GAN900> xim_, dunno, I only know a dbus signal is sent when it's plugged in, so. :P
Jun 14 00:30:34 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: lo
Jun 14 00:31:11 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, hey-ho.
Jun 14 00:31:41 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: sure you don't mean init-replacement?
Jun 14 00:32:21 <luke-jr> init-ng is the 5 year old thing, not the pre-Linux thing
Jun 14 00:33:43 <luke-jr> lol at Wikipedia on init
Jun 14 00:33:47 <luke-jr> "Various efforts have been made to replace the traditional init daemons with something better. Below is a list of these alternatives in no particular order."
Jun 14 00:33:54 <luke-jr> Initng, a full replacement of init designed to start processes asynchronously
Jun 14 00:33:55 <luke-jr> Upstart, a full replacement of init designed to start processes asynchronously initiated by Ubuntu
Jun 14 00:34:04 <luke-jr> the only difference being that Ubuntu initiated Upstart
Jun 14 00:34:15 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 14 00:35:08 <xim_> gan900, I am new to dbus, how would I go about learning how to intercept dbus signals and luaunching events
Jun 14 00:35:37 <SpeedEvil> xim_: start by grabbing the source of headphoned - or whatever it was called
Jun 14 00:36:02 <xim_> ah good idea thanks
Jun 14 00:36:10 <DocScrutinizer> well, in gemany we got the profession names application-developer and system-developer, and wiki has exactly same description for both. Still everybody of random HR wants to know if I'm app-dev or sys-dev
Jun 14 00:37:10 <SpeedEvil> Fix wiki then.
Jun 14 00:38:10 <DocScrutinizer> I would if I knew any difference
Jun 14 00:39:01 <SpeedEvil> 'Application developers always wear blue hats'.
Jun 14 00:39:25 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, sounds reasonable XD
Jun 14 00:39:56 <GAN900> system/platform-dev
Jun 14 00:40:16 <GAN900> System dev works with libraries, application dev uses them.
Jun 14 00:40:31 <GAN900> Generally a platform dev is slightly above an app dev
Jun 14 00:41:00 <DocScrutinizer> I allways found that I need both in the end
Jun 14 00:41:19 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, personally, I'd call you a platform dev.
Jun 14 00:41:28 <luke-jr> oh, actually I'm fine w/ SysV init too...
Jun 14 00:41:41 <luke-jr> it looks like the part that makes Upstart worthless is actually called OpenRC
Jun 14 00:49:18 <kW_> Does anybody know where (e.g. in the kernel) the flickering keyboard backlight is controlled in R&D-mode?
Jun 14 00:49:45 <SpeedEvil> http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/
Jun 14 00:49:49 <SpeedEvil> search for watchdog
Jun 14 00:49:51 <SpeedEvil> or LED
Jun 14 00:49:57 <SpeedEvil> or elvis
Jun 14 00:57:03 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: the flickering kbd backlight in R&D mode is a hardware feature. It's enabled by NOLO I guess
Jun 14 00:58:38 <kW_> DocScrutinizer: but how does the hardware know whether some parts of the system are active or not?
Jun 14 00:58:45 <DocScrutinizer> see ""SLEEP_IND, NSLEEP1, SYS_CLKREQ"" on schematics page 6
Jun 14 00:59:07 <kW_> well, SLEEP_IND does not refer to the keyboard LEDs, does it?
Jun 14 00:59:13 <DocScrutinizer> SLEEP_IND seems the gate signal enabling this feature
Jun 14 01:00:03 <kW_> what makes you believe this? (I actually tried to disable "sleep_ind", with no success)
Jun 14 01:00:15 <DocScrutinizer> the other 2 signals obviously control the flickering of the ndividual LEDs
Jun 14 01:00:35 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: the schematics make me believe this
Jun 14 01:01:03 <MohammadAG> what's with the N900 me disconnecting all the time...
Jun 14 01:02:02 <kW_> DocScrutinizer: do you have a URL for the schematics?
Jun 14 01:02:54 <DocScrutinizer> btw SLEEP_IND is GPIO162
Jun 14 01:03:26 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: you find the scheamtics via a link on the wiki hardware schematics page
Jun 14 01:06:27 <DocScrutinizer> D1322 is the component that's in your focus
Jun 14 01:07:21 <DocScrutinizer> also N1322 2-channel LED driver chip
Jun 14 01:09:06 <crashanddie> < mrclopes> who australia played to be in world cup anyway... are there any ohter countries in Oceania?
Jun 14 01:09:10 <crashanddie> v
Jun 14 01:09:12 <crashanddie> < crashanddie> mrclopes: you must be american?
Jun 14 01:09:17 <crashanddie> < mrclopes> yes
Jun 14 01:09:53 <DocScrutinizer> omfg
Jun 14 01:11:58 <derf> In our country's defense, I've _been_ to more contries in Oceania than that.
Jun 14 01:12:20 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 14 01:12:39 <DocScrutinizer> and you're also sure this isn't a disk we live on, yes? :-P
Jun 14 01:13:25 <derf> I understand WGS84 coordinates.
Jun 14 01:13:34 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Jun 14 01:16:46 <kW_> DocScrutinizer: yes, it looks like N1322 is handling this
Jun 14 01:17:03 <DocScrutinizer> toldya
Jun 14 01:19:37 <DocScrutinizer> basically *somebody* does the GPIO wiggling in SoC, probably NOLO starts with it. Dunno if maybe SYS_CLKREQ and SYS_OFF_MODE aka NSLEEP1 are configured to work 2nd function
Jun 14 01:20:32 <kW_> hmm
Jun 14 01:20:44 <DocScrutinizer> but I'm rather sure setting GPIO_162 to low (high?) will enable rsp stop that flickering
Jun 14 01:21:03 <kW_> but then, setting SLEEP_IND to 0 should work, why it apparently did not
Jun 14 01:21:29 <DocScrutinizer> And I'd not be surprised to learn this particular GPIO isn't touched anywhere in the kernel
Jun 14 01:22:35 <DocScrutinizer> maybe the GPIO isn't configured correctly as output?
Jun 14 01:22:50 <DocScrutinizer> "correctly"
Jun 14 01:23:01 <kW_> DocScrutinizer: now, " echo inactive >/sys/bus/platform/drivers/gpio-switch/sleep_ind/state" did it actually
Jun 14 01:23:13 <DocScrutinizer> see? :-D
Jun 14 01:23:27 <DocScrutinizer> great, please document it on the wiki hw pages somewhere
Jun 14 01:23:33 <SpeedEvil> See if you can add somewhere sane to add that on the LED page
Jun 14 01:24:01 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_LED#Hardware
Jun 14 01:24:26 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: nice find :-D
Jun 14 01:29:41 <crashanddie> anyone ever heard of the acronym FML?
Jun 14 01:32:14 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, one of my best friend's favorites.
Jun 14 01:32:17 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, what now?
Jun 14 01:33:02 <crashanddie> just never heard it, was surprised to see an article on cnet describing it as a "very popular acronym amongst bloggers and regulars on internet forums"
Jun 14 01:33:13 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: please fix http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_LED#cite_note-lp5521-spec-0  -  refer to http://wiki.maemo.org/LED_patterns#References.  I don't get it as the references don't show up in http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=LED_patterns&action=edit&section=25 it seems  :-o
Jun 14 01:33:29 <derf> It was very popular like two years ago.
Jun 14 01:33:30 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, the internet is a big place, I suppose.
Jun 14 01:33:44 <GeneralAntilles> There are places where soccer is popular in the US, too. :P
Jun 14 01:34:00 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: seems I need to open another ticket against mediawiki?
Jun 14 01:34:08 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Jun 14 01:34:13 <SpeedEvil> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147659
Jun 14 01:34:14 <povbot> Bug 147659: was not found.
Jun 14 01:34:17 <SpeedEvil> (not related to that)
Jun 14 01:34:24 <crashanddie> who owns povbot?
Jun 14 01:34:28 <crashanddie> povbot: ownerinfo
Jun 14 01:34:30 <povbot> crashanddie: Error: "ownerinfo" is not a valid command.
Jun 14 01:34:31 <crashanddie> povbot: owner
Jun 14 01:34:31 <povbot> crashanddie: Error: "owner" is not a valid command.
Jun 14 01:34:37 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, mgedmin.
Jun 14 01:34:38 <crashanddie> povbot: help
Jun 14 01:34:38 <povbot> crashanddie: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
Jun 14 01:34:57 <DocScrutinizer> povbot: info
Jun 14 01:34:58 <povbot> DocScrutinizer: Error: "info" is not a valid command.
Jun 14 01:35:05 <vldcnst> povbot: version
Jun 14 01:35:06 <povbot> vldcnst: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.3.  The newest version available online is 0.83.4.1.
Jun 14 01:35:08 <DocScrutinizer> povbot: status
Jun 14 01:35:08 <povbot> DocScrutinizer: Error: "status" is not a valid command.
Jun 14 01:35:25 <crashanddie> povbot: leave
Jun 14 01:35:26 <povbot> crashanddie: Error: "leave" is not a valid command.
Jun 14 01:35:40 <vldcnst> povbot: part
Jun 14 01:35:40 <povbot> vldcnst: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
Jun 14 01:35:45 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: that was moved from somewhere I forget, I haven't gone through it for sanity
Jun 14 01:35:56 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: please don't kill povbot :-D
Jun 14 01:36:04 <crashanddie> I'm going to
Jun 14 01:36:18 <DocScrutinizer> why?
Jun 14 01:36:28 <crashanddie> mgedmin seriously needs to put a filter on the bug trackers URLs that povbot matches against
Jun 14 01:36:35 <crashanddie> I'm tired of seeing "bug not found"
Jun 14 01:36:48 <crashanddie> as soon as someone links to anything that isn't bugs.maemo.org
Jun 14 01:36:54 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, there aren't that many non maemo.org bugs being pasted. :P
Jun 14 01:37:49 <DocScrutinizer> exactly, though I tend to agree with crashanddie it *should* have better filtering
Jun 14 01:38:10 <DocScrutinizer> povbot: ?
Jun 14 01:38:11 <povbot> DocScrutinizer: Error: "?" is not a valid command.
Jun 14 01:38:24 <DocScrutinizer> this is what annoys me much more
Jun 14 01:38:44 <DocScrutinizer> bots ares upposed to correctly identify themselves and their owner
Jun 14 01:38:49 <vldcnst> povbot: stats
Jun 14 01:38:49 <povbot> vldcnst: I have 1 registered users with 0 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
Jun 14 01:39:58 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer, 'course it should. :P
Jun 14 01:41:23 <DocScrutinizer> GeneralAntilles: that's at least freenode policy
Jun 14 01:41:48 <GeneralAntilles> Well, somebody poke mgedmin.
Jun 14 01:42:53 <MohammadAG> /ms send mgedim would be equally good :p
Jun 14 01:43:02 <DocScrutinizer> if some freenode stuffer runs into povbot then (s)he'll kill that bot for not identifying who's admin
Jun 14 01:43:05 <MohammadAG> mgedmin*
Jun 14 01:44:09 <DocScrutinizer> for strange reasons this seems to never work. Nobody of those I sent a /ms msg to ever seen it
Jun 14 01:49:43 <MohammadAG> lol
Jun 14 01:53:55 <DocScrutinizer> lol?
Jun 14 01:59:51 <kW_> Where can I get not-so-exotic packages for maemo? (For example, "hexdump" and a proper "head" implementation?)
Jun 14 02:09:10 <DocScrutinizer> coreutils?
Jun 14 02:31:39 <lipe> can someone help me to connect my n900 in wifi with cisco leap authentication?
Jun 14 02:32:52 <lipe> i need wpa_suplicant package but i don't found it
Jun 14 02:33:39 <SpeedEvil> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3655
Jun 14 02:33:40 <povbot> Bug 3655: EAP-LEAP (Cisco) not supported
Jun 14 02:35:12 <lipe> povbot: officially...
Jun 14 02:35:12 <povbot> lipe: Error: "officially..." is not a valid command.
Jun 14 02:35:23 <lipe> ops
Jun 14 02:37:38 <lipe> povbot: wpa
Jun 14 02:37:39 <povbot> lipe: Error: "wpa" is not a valid command.
Jun 14 02:39:41 <SpeedEvil> umm - don't off-hand know what might provide wpa_supplicant
Jun 14 02:44:21 <SpeedEvil> Lurk - maybe more people will have a clue hen they waek up
Jun 14 02:44:47 <SpeedEvil> I know it's a question that's been asked before I haven't been tracking it - as I use one AP.
Jun 14 02:45:33 <SpeedEvil> Trying building it on device, to see if it works
Jun 14 02:45:49 <lipe> i will try...
Jun 14 02:45:58 <lipe> thanks for support
Jun 14 02:46:11 <SpeedEvil> I mean - I'm trying
Jun 14 02:46:51 <lipe> :) thanks again
Jun 14 02:46:59 <SpeedEvil> ah - I need to setup more prerequisites - openssl fails
Jun 14 02:47:03 <SpeedEvil> not tonight.
Jun 14 02:47:05 <SpeedEvil> Good luck
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 14 02:59:57 2010