**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 21 02:59:57 2010
Jun 21 03:00:51 <Macer> is it me or after 1.2 does microb seem to work like crap?
Jun 21 03:01:10 <asj> Macer: it's you
Jun 21 03:02:53 <asj> Macer: I beleive it turns off javascript timers after X many seconds by default now, perhaps that's causing you issues?
Jun 21 03:04:02 <Macer> maybe. seems slow though
Jun 21 03:04:28 <Macer> and randomly crashes when typing in an address in the bookmark startup screen
Jun 21 03:08:33 <asj> Macer: have not seen that
Jun 21 03:10:01 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: I hope you're not using a device that had been overclocked formerly (or even now)
Jun 21 03:10:33 <pigeon> weird, now my wifi adhoc stopped working with my n900 :(
Jun 21 03:24:17 <flailingmonkey> a friend with an N900 seems to think adhoc isn't stable. might have been trying to start a network rather than join one
Jun 21 03:24:26 <pigeon> hmm
Jun 21 03:24:37 <pigeon> the "WEP" on the n900, what is it actually?
Jun 21 03:25:00 <pigeon> like, under network manager on linux, there's 40bit and 128bit WEP.
Jun 21 03:25:36 <pyther> pigeon: it is a type of wireless encryption
Jun 21 03:26:06 <pigeon> hmm, so which one should i choose on the other end?
Jun 21 03:26:28 <pyther> well that would depend what wireless encryption your network is using
Jun 21 03:26:36 <pyther> wpa/wpa2 is probably pretty common these days
Jun 21 03:26:41 <pigeon> so the n900 will work it out?
Jun 21 03:26:50 <pigeon> as in, between 40bit or 128bit key
Jun 21 03:27:05 <pigeon> wpa/wpa2 doesn't work with ah hoc though i thought
Jun 21 03:27:09 <pigeon> or at least not on the n900
Jun 21 03:28:11 <pigeon> or, at least, not from its gui...
Jun 21 03:28:24 <pyther> I'm not very familar with ad-hoc networks, sorry
Jun 21 03:30:22 <N900bastard> there any programers in this channel?
Jun 21 03:32:44 <pigeon> any programmers?
Jun 21 03:33:10 <N900bastard> yeah...maemo programers
Jun 21 03:33:25 <flailingmonkey> yeah, they're all asleep
Jun 21 03:33:47 <Ken-Young> pigeon, I'm sorta a programmer...
Jun 21 03:33:49 <flailingmonkey> many in the european timezones
Jun 21 03:33:53 <N900bastard> just wanted to ask why most n900 apps suck balls compared to android
Jun 21 03:34:06 <pigeon> well, i'm a programmer too, but not (yet) a maemo programmer
Jun 21 03:35:05 <Ken-Young> N900bastard, They don't suck balls, they simply take an IQ greater than 70 0 to appreciate.
Jun 21 03:35:16 <pyther> :D
Jun 21 03:35:46 <N900bastard> Ken-Young: you familiar with android?
Jun 21 03:36:00 <Ken-Young> You betcha - I've got an ANdroid phone.
Jun 21 03:36:16 <Ken-Young> I stopped downloading fart apps after number 600.
Jun 21 03:36:22 <N900bastard> then u know what i'm saying?
Jun 21 03:36:54 <N900bastard> funny how all you nokia lovers always bring up the same "fart app" argument - fucking weak
Jun 21 03:38:00 <asj> N900bastard: bored yet?
Jun 21 03:38:12 <Ken-Young> Yes, the ANdroid market place has a spectacular selection of fart and celebrity soundboard apps.   Countless Sudoku and bejewelled clones.   Gosh, I'm weeping with jealousy.
Jun 21 03:38:19 <flailingmonkey> N900bastard: what are your most important android apps? perhaps then we will know what specific deficiences must be addressed
Jun 21 03:39:03 <flailingmonkey> please note, I am not defending current selection. but broad generalities are wasted bytes
Jun 21 03:39:17 * puzzled pitches support for client certificate authentication in Modest
Jun 21 03:39:35 <N900bastard> i dont have android phone but i was playing with one and man they wipe the floor with maemo
Jun 21 03:40:02 <pyther> N900bastard: you do know you can put Andriod on your N900 if you feel so inclined
Jun 21 03:40:14 <N900bastard> pyther: i know
Jun 21 03:40:34 <Ken-Young> And Apple wipes the floor with Android, if apps are your method of judging.
Jun 21 03:40:53 <N900bastard> i guess it dont really matter since nokia is shutting maemo down
Jun 21 03:40:57 <pigeon> N900bastard: i'm sure there are apps on android that the n900 hasn't got, but what app(s) in particular?
Jun 21 03:41:06 <flailingmonkey> puzzled: indeed, a lot of isses would be better addressed by improving the core apps in maemo 5, rather than a whole new one
Jun 21 03:41:11 <Ken-Young> N900bastard, On that I can agree with you.
Jun 21 03:41:24 <N900bastard> pigeon: i cant really tell you -the selection is just better it seems
Jun 21 03:41:54 <pyther> N900bastard: I ordered a N900 today because it is going to give me control, maemo is 100% open and from what I am able to tell very open to modifications
Jun 21 03:42:02 <pyther> Andriod likely not as much
Jun 21 03:42:14 <pyther> I love that fact I'll be able to ssh into my boxes from my phone
Jun 21 03:42:20 <N900bastard> pyther: i love my n900 - best freaking phone out there
Jun 21 03:42:42 <N900bastard> is there an app for ssh on n900?
Jun 21 03:42:55 <Ken-Young> N900bastard, If you love your N900, write an app for it!
Jun 21 03:43:19 <N900bastard> cause i was fucking around with ssh the other day on my n900 but couldnt get this shit to work, too much geek talk
Jun 21 03:43:21 <asj> N900bastard: an app for ssh? really? you have to ask?
Jun 21 03:43:27 <pyther> N900bastard: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/openssh-client/
Jun 21 03:43:46 <pigeon> on that note, i was extremely disappointed that there isn't a free ssh client on the apple app store.
Jun 21 03:44:01 <N900bastard> pyther: thanks - i tried it just seems like a half assed effort
Jun 21 03:44:10 <pigeon> without jail breaking the device that is...
Jun 21 03:44:42 <flailingmonkey> pigeon: i wonder if it would get accepted
Jun 21 03:44:52 <asj> N900bastard: lol :)
Jun 21 03:45:17 <flailingmonkey> for maemo devices, Ovi store is like a lemonade stand.
Jun 21 03:45:24 <N900bastard> this is what i mean....other os have polished apps.... maemo has half assed shit designed for geeks
Jun 21 03:45:30 <pigeon> flailingmonkey: and i ended up paying one for about $2, and it doesn't support ansi color properly :(
Jun 21 03:45:38 <pyther> noob question but what are maemo apps developed in (language; python, c, c++, etc...)
Jun 21 03:45:47 <pyther> or does that depend on the program?
Jun 21 03:45:50 <flailingmonkey> extras is another distribution path, but it won't draw proprietary apps
Jun 21 03:45:52 <pigeon> actually, s/properly// :)
Jun 21 03:45:53 <puzzled> N900bastard: the phone is aimed at geeks...
Jun 21 03:46:20 <asj> N900bastard: you want to ssh somewhere and you're complaining about opening a terminal and sshing there....? really?</fuel troll>
Jun 21 03:46:40 <N900bastard> geeks talk about this linux shit in their pockets as if it was the second coming of messiah....fuck linux i say
Jun 21 03:46:56 <flailingmonkey> pyther: maemo apps have been GTK+ apps written to use the hildon interface, and now the platform is moving to Qt
Jun 21 03:47:06 <pigeon> i bet someone here can write a frontend to ssh in no time...
Jun 21 03:47:17 <flailingmonkey> both in C++, but there are python bindings
Jun 21 03:47:38 <N900bastard> flailingmonkey: and next year the platform will move to something else... thats the problem with nokia
Jun 21 03:47:58 <N900bastard> they not consistent
Jun 21 03:48:24 <Ken-Young> No, they can be counted on to abandon us.
Jun 21 03:48:25 <pyther> flailingmonkey: ahh ok, maybe I'll learn some c++ and write some ssh sync code for conboy (tomboy clone)
Jun 21 03:49:36 <puzzled> Ken-Young: as long as they release a good meego image for N900 it's ok with me
Jun 21 03:50:12 <Ken-Young> puzzled, I agree.   I'm not optimistic about that though.
Jun 21 03:50:45 <N900bastard> full of lies they are
Jun 21 03:51:06 <puzzled> neither am I. but if they do they will probably piss of a lot of devs which is not good for their eco system
Jun 21 03:51:49 <asj> why can't the community do a meego image? ;)
Jun 21 03:52:30 <puzzled> asj: sure, if Nokia provides the closed parts in an ongoing effort I don't see why not. It's just another distro
Jun 21 03:52:34 <N900bastard> asj: fuck the community image.....i want official shit for my n900
Jun 21 03:53:12 <asj> puzzled: meego should be tad more open which may help
Jun 21 03:53:16 <N900bastard> i dont want hacked os on my phone
Jun 21 03:53:59 <flailingmonkey> the thing is, they are paying people to get meego (and harmattan) working on N900
Jun 21 03:54:01 * puzzled watches the clueless meter run straight of the scale
Jun 21 03:54:36 <N900bastard> flailingmonkey: where did u hear that?
Jun 21 03:54:40 <flailingmonkey> they aren't just asking people to put the pieces together. but they aren't committing to having Nokia Care people walk users through the install, etc
Jun 21 03:54:48 <N900bastard> last i heard was nokia killing maemo
Jun 21 03:54:52 <flailingmonkey> directly from the people working on the project
Jun 21 03:55:02 <asj> flailingmonkey: I would like to see it :)
Jun 21 03:55:30 <N900bastard> there's been so many conflicting stories from nokia.... dont know who to trust
Jun 21 03:56:14 <flailingmonkey> it's coming. there is culture clash inside Nokia, which is why they can't talk details in public or they risk getting fired
Jun 21 03:56:46 <flailingmonkey> as for the move to Qt, that was coming a long time. before that it was always GTK+
Jun 21 03:57:15 <flailingmonkey> the major abandonment issue was new OS releases on the previous hardware generation
Jun 21 03:57:29 <puzzled> flailingmonkey: maybe they should have put the effort in a skunkworks project out of sight of "old school" influences and opinion
Jun 21 03:57:54 <N900bastard> and thats what i'm afraid will happen to n900...abandoment...hope i'm wrong
Jun 21 04:00:12 <flailingmonkey> they already have meego running on the N900, which is a looot more than could be said of previous NITs
Jun 21 04:01:15 <pyther> What is meego? <=== sorry for the noob question
Jun 21 04:01:29 <flailingmonkey> ~meego
Jun 21 04:01:29 <pigeon> does anyone know how i can change the incoming server (imap) address for an e-mail account in modest without deleting it first? the fields is grey out in the options for whatever reason...
Jun 21 04:01:30 <puzzled> http://meego.com/
Jun 21 04:01:32 <infobot> it has been said that meego is http://meego.com an opensource distribution for netbooks and mobile devices
Jun 21 04:01:34 <N900bastard> yeah... but it's meant it's just to test shit... not intended for the public
Jun 21 04:01:41 <pigeon> even username is grey out
Jun 21 04:01:46 <asj> pyther: a joint intel nokia probject, that compines maemo with intels work
Jun 21 04:02:07 <puzzled> pigeon: don't think you can change
Jun 21 04:02:14 <pigeon> hmm
Jun 21 04:02:19 <puzzled> indeed
Jun 21 04:02:21 <N900bastard> flailingmonkey: nokia is running meego now on n900 just to test it.... they said n900 is just a testing platform no?
Jun 21 04:02:32 <pigeon> not even changing the config file somewhere?
Jun 21 04:02:46 <pigeon> or maybe in a gconf settings?
Jun 21 04:02:52 <puzzled> pigeon: that I don't know
Jun 21 04:03:00 <pigeon> hmm alright, thanks.
Jun 21 04:03:30 <flailingmonkey> N900bastard: nope
Jun 21 04:03:39 <N900bastard> no?
Jun 21 04:04:19 <flailingmonkey> in fact they are building the build system so that meego apps can be built for maemo 5 (fremantle) and so that meego images can be built for N900
Jun 21 04:04:33 <flailingmonkey> so all future meego versions will run on N900
Jun 21 04:04:52 <N900bastard> hmm....interesting shit
Jun 21 04:05:11 <puzzled> N900bastard: read this: http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2010/05/it-was-dawn-of-3rd-age.html
Jun 21 04:05:37 <N900bastard> what i dont get is.... why not just come out and say it: "meego will run on n900".... why all this bullshit talk from nokia?
Jun 21 04:05:58 <flailingmonkey> obviously, they should promote this properly, but right now the project managers want a whole big reveal thing (eventually people saying Nokia should be like Apple, and THAT is what they choose to do)
Jun 21 04:06:20 <flailingmonkey> so it all has to be, quiet. until some annoucement
Jun 21 04:06:30 * puzzled hopes for a big announcement on GUADEC
Jun 21 04:07:33 <N900bastard> flailingmonkey: i respect what yer saying man.... i just dont see nokia EVER making an announcement about meego on n900.... i just dont get the vibes reading all  the shit
Jun 21 04:08:35 <flailingmonkey> and I don't even know who they got doing their PR.
Jun 21 04:10:19 <flailingmonkey> but at the end of the day, you have to see it as: maemo.org people (paid to develop Maemo, by Nokia, but are contractors), then Maemo (now Meego) Devices group at Nokia, THEN Nokia people that choose what gets announced, and how
Jun 21 04:10:54 <puzzled> that's enough room for a lot of disconnects :)
Jun 21 04:13:02 <asj> you assume nokia knows what it wants
Jun 21 04:13:53 <GAN900> flailingmonkey, maemo.org people are paid to develop maemo.org
Jun 21 04:14:27 <GAN900> Call them Nokia contractors if you're talking about Collabora, Kernel Concepts, Open Ismus, etc.
Jun 21 04:14:31 <flailingmonkey> GAN900: thanks for the clarification :-) maemo.org is the community
Jun 21 04:14:51 <GAN900> N900bastard, define "MeeGo"
Jun 21 04:15:25 <N900bastard> meego is maemo and intel stuff now under one new name
Jun 21 04:15:38 <GAN900> N900bastard, as it stands now we have at least two major things: MeeGo-Harmattan and meego.com-MeeGo
Jun 21 04:15:44 * flailingmonkey mixed up the contractors that work on Maemo, and the wonderful people that work for the maemo.org community
Jun 21 04:16:12 <N900bastard> GAN900: meaning what?
Jun 21 04:16:18 <GAN900> MeeGo-Harmattan will not be officially supported for N900 (because Nokia hates their customers)
Jun 21 04:16:45 <GAN900> meego.com-MeeGo is supporting the N900 as its ARM dev platform.
Jun 21 04:16:58 <digitalsurgeon> do any of you guys use reddit ?
Jun 21 04:17:16 <digitalsurgeon> would the idea of a reddit app appeal you guys ?
Jun 21 04:17:25 <RST38h> EHLO maeblin punks
Jun 21 04:17:35 <GAN900> So, in the end, you get a pill of mostly useless bits and pieces for users unless somebody from the community steps up and makes it work.
Jun 21 04:17:57 <GAN900> So when you talk about Nokia making an announcement about MeeGo and the N900
Jun 21 04:18:19 <GAN900> and when you talk about meego.com providing some sort of support for the N900
Jun 21 04:18:20 <N900bastard> GAN900: right... i get it
Jun 21 04:18:37 <GAN900> you're actually talking about a half dozen things. ;)
Jun 21 04:19:32 * flailingmonkey goes to bed
Jun 21 04:19:50 <GAN900> In summary, it's BYOS (Bring Your Own Support) because Nokia's filled with cheap bastards who couldn't give two shits for the people who have already forked over the cash.
Jun 21 04:21:00 <N900bastard> GAN900: sad
Jun 21 04:22:27 <GAN900> Indeed
Jun 21 04:25:05 <asj> that's a pretty imature view
Jun 21 04:26:37 <N900bastard> asj: but its true
Jun 21 04:27:02 <asj> N900bastard: it's true that it's an immature view?
Jun 21 04:27:28 <N900bastard> asj: no... the view is true
Jun 21 04:29:52 <asj> N900bastard: I don't understand why one would expect a device to follow a major os change, nokia has said they won't do it, they've never done it before. Wouldn't you rather have developer resources focused on the next new device to make it better than playing around with a 1.5 year peice of limited hardware?
Jun 21 04:31:20 <N900bastard> asj: no. i hate nokia constantly giving the finger to their customers. and the n900 is not 1.5 years....it's only been on the market for a very short time and nokia is fucking their customers already
Jun 21 04:32:12 <ljp> FUD
Jun 21 04:32:34 <RST38h> It is more like 6 months, indeed
Jun 21 04:33:04 <asj> N900bastard: to get the device to market you can be assured hw designs for it were probably done >6mo before it hit store shelves.  You haven't been screwed, if nokia said "we will support blah on the device" then reversed the decision you would have been screwed, they said they wouldn't and you may not have chosen to beleive them...but that's not their fail
Jun 21 04:34:18 <ljp> as far as support for the n900. I wonder what all the work I have been doing bringing mobility to the n900 for the last year is...
Jun 21 04:34:37 <N900bastard> asj: a 3 yeard old iphone can run the latest os... 6 month old N900 is being killed off... see the difference?
Jun 21 04:34:45 <asj> N900bastard: nope
Jun 21 04:34:55 <digitalsurgeon> guys this is for the best, for Nokia doesnt do what its doing, there might not be a maemo device in the future ... ever
Jun 21 04:34:57 <N900bastard> asj: really?
Jun 21 04:34:57 <asj> ljp: consitent support accross platforms? :)
Jun 21 04:35:10 * RST38h has been screwed by the broken Phone application on the n900
Jun 21 04:35:37 * RST38h has been screwed by the non-working mail client
Jun 21 04:35:40 <ljp> i guess it s for non support of a dying device that nokia has killed off, even though a major update was just released a few weeks ago
Jun 21 04:35:52 * ljp shurgs
Jun 21 04:35:52 * RST38h has been screwed by the overally sluggish system
Jun 21 04:36:02 <digitalsurgeon> n900 was for geeks, it was never intended for mass audience.
Jun 21 04:36:11 <ljp> right
Jun 21 04:36:16 * RST38h has been screwed by the lack of Cyrillics support on physical kbd
Jun 21 04:36:20 <digitalsurgeon> it was for Open Source geeks, ppl like you
Jun 21 04:36:29 <RST38h> Should I continue or are you getting the picture?
Jun 21 04:37:29 <ljp> yep. youve convinced me. nokia is killing off the n900. you might as well send it to me
Jun 21 04:37:35 <asj> RST38h: if I get an iphone and don't get a free ssh client did apple screw me?
Jun 21 04:37:55 <RST38h> asj: no
Jun 21 04:38:07 <asj> RST38h: but I want it!
Jun 21 04:38:13 <N900bastard> asj: thats different.... what da fuck you talking about it?
Jun 21 04:38:23 <RST38h> but if you get an iphone and have problems using it to call people, apple screwed you
Jun 21 04:38:45 <RST38h> asj: check my statements above, do you see ssh there?
Jun 21 04:38:50 <ljp> i don tthink your 3g iphone is going to get updated to ios4
Jun 21 04:38:53 <N900bastard> asj: thats the problem... nokia apologists will continue to buy their products and nokia will never stop fucking their customer
Jun 21 04:38:54 <digitalsurgeon> RST38h I will also happily take the n900 off your hands
Jun 21 04:38:59 <asj> RST38h: just because you don't care about ssh doesn't mean I don't
Jun 21 04:39:20 <RST38h> but ssh has not been included into the base os
Jun 21 04:39:20 <ljp> obviously you havent yet gotten your latest update
Jun 21 04:39:30 <ljp> i could have sworn I got one the other week
Jun 21 04:39:38 * ljp checks
Jun 21 04:39:39 <RST38h> I have been talking about builtin stuff failing to work
Jun 21 04:39:40 <Arkenoi> well, actually new decent phones come at "one per 2-3 years" rate
Jun 21 04:39:55 <Arkenoi> so n900 has at least 1.5 years to live
Jun 21 04:40:06 <Arkenoi> i doubt situation will change
Jun 21 04:40:08 <ljp> for killing off a device, Nokia sure does heaps of work on it
Jun 21 04:40:20 <asj> RST38h: so am I, I can't add arbitrary applications to the device, I think that's getting screwed
Jun 21 04:40:26 <RST38h> ljp: as evidenced by...?
Jun 21 04:40:40 <RST38h> asj <-- bullshitting
Jun 21 04:40:49 <asj> RST38h: qt 4.6 being released for it
Jun 21 04:40:53 <ljp> ermmm.. what I have been working on the last months
Jun 21 04:41:04 <ljp> what hundreds of developers have been doing
Jun 21 04:41:05 <RST38h> asj: that is calle "working on qt"
Jun 21 04:41:13 <ljp> the latest frickin update
Jun 21 04:41:14 * RST38h does not have use for qt
Jun 21 04:41:25 <Arkenoi> qt sucks
Jun 21 04:41:31 <ljp> right
Jun 21 04:41:33 <Arkenoi> at least on n900 and at the moment
Jun 21 04:41:37 <asj> RST38h: ah, but without qt 4.6 you would have been stuck with a dieing device
Jun 21 04:41:40 <ljp> thats why gtk is so sindy
Jun 21 04:41:42 <ljp> windy
Jun 21 04:42:12 <asj> ljp: that's just because your pants are low ;)
Jun 21 04:42:27 <ljp> yep. on the ground
Jun 21 04:42:50 <Arkenoi> and if you use qt you have programs that take 3-4s just to *start*, it is *INACCEPTABLE FAIL*, it is not WM, guys, so it is *NOT TOLERABLE*
Jun 21 04:43:26 <ljp> thats because the gtk event loop is slow
Jun 21 04:43:49 <RST38h> asj: I would not.
Jun 21 04:44:04 <digitalsurgeon> Arkenoi: if the whole device was Qt, it would be so much faster.
Jun 21 04:44:17 <digitalsurgeon> Loading Qt libs takes time, just like on GNOME loading KDE apps takes time.
Jun 21 04:44:25 <RST38h> Qt is just a UI framework. To the end user, it is no different from Gtk
Jun 21 04:44:52 <ljp> qt is more than ui
Jun 21 04:44:54 <RST38h> So, Qt may be important for Nokia, but it does not make much of a difference for the users
Jun 21 04:44:54 <digitalsurgeon> Qt provides much nicer transitions fw, on the level above or equal to coco touch.
Jun 21 04:45:10 <RST38h> ljp: Yea, it is also an attempt to unseat POSIX with C++
Jun 21 04:45:24 <RST38h> ljp: Which is even less interesting for both users and developers
Jun 21 04:45:24 <digitalsurgeon> RST38h you would see when the next meego device comes from Nokia,
Jun 21 04:45:44 * RST38h yawns at digitalsurgeon
Jun 21 04:45:51 <asj> RST38h: umm, that would be like saying glib is trying to unseat posix with C
Jun 21 04:45:55 <RST38h> Transitions. Pfft. All you need is transitions, indeed :)
Jun 21 04:46:02 <RST38h> asj: Correct
Jun 21 04:46:09 <RST38h> asj: And also failing miserably.
Jun 21 04:46:27 <ljp> POSIX is so... 1970's
Jun 21 04:46:36 <RST38h> Good.
Jun 21 04:46:53 <digitalsurgeon> well just as an example look at neego netbook ui 1.0 that was release coupld of weeks ago.
Jun 21 04:46:54 <RST38h> It is simple, well supported, and works.
Jun 21 04:47:01 <digitalsurgeon> it kills win 7 on a netbook.
Jun 21 04:47:13 <digitalsurgeon> and it sall Qt
Jun 21 04:47:14 <RST38h> digitalsurgeon: What is a netbook? Why do I need it?
Jun 21 04:47:32 <Arkenoi> win 7 on a netbook is probably not hard to kill
Jun 21 04:47:42 <asj> RST38h: ok, great unseat it, it's not portable on desktops, much less phones. It's time is over.
Jun 21 04:47:48 <digitalsurgeon> it kills all linux uis on netwbook as well
Jun 21 04:48:06 <RST38h> digitalsurgeon: Why do I need 1) netbooks 2) linux on netbooks ?
Jun 21 04:48:08 <Arkenoi> digitalsurgeon, it is much more interesting. how?
Jun 21 04:48:29 * RST38h has a subnotebook, running WinXP, weighting less than some netbooks
Jun 21 04:48:31 <digitalsurgeon> ok, just one work, QtQuick
Jun 21 04:48:44 <digitalsurgeon> you tube for QtQuick Demos.
Jun 21 04:48:45 * RST38h googles for tQuick
Jun 21 04:49:36 <RST38h> digitalsurgeon: So, it is another load of eyecandy. What is your point?
Jun 21 04:49:40 <puzzled> here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePHFGKwE6mc
Jun 21 04:49:53 <RST38h> Does it allow me to do something I have not been able to do with, let us say, WinXP?
Jun 21 04:50:03 <digitalsurgeon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NK4zeAe5-Y
Jun 21 04:50:10 <ljp> ermm. yes
Jun 21 04:50:14 <GAN900> asj, your revisionist history is interesting
Jun 21 04:50:31 <RST38h> puzzled: looks like Modest.
Jun 21 04:50:41 <RST38h> And we all know by now that Modest sucks.
Jun 21 04:50:48 <asj> GAN900: I'm not revising any history, but it's also not 1998 anymore
Jun 21 04:50:50 <GAN900> asj, and people expect it because ALL of their competitors in this niche are providing that support.
Jun 21 04:50:55 <ljp> qt quick doesnt look like anything
Jun 21 04:50:55 <puzzled> RST38h: but I bet it does client certificate authentication :)
Jun 21 04:51:00 <RST38h> asj: POSIX works everywhere, phones included.
Jun 21 04:51:05 <GAN900> asj, the N800 received a major update
Jun 21 04:51:08 <RST38h> asj: Why, it is even supported inSymbian
Jun 21 04:51:10 <GAN900> as did the 770
Jun 21 04:51:25 <GAN900> so you're either underinformed or revisionist.
Jun 21 04:51:27 <asj> RST38h: android being java only doesn't do posix, fail.
Jun 21 04:51:43 * Arkenoi does not see how QtQuick can "kill" anything on a device without a touchscreen
Jun 21 04:51:48 <digitalsurgeon> QtQuick / Declarative UI is where I think Nokia is betting, ,the reason for the delays in devices ...
Jun 21 04:51:54 <RST38h> asj: Android phoens support posix underneath, when you program using native api
Jun 21 04:52:07 <RST38h> digitalsurgeon: declarative UI has been known since Motif
Jun 21 04:52:25 <digitalsurgeon> but tell me which mobile os currently uses declarative uis ?
Jun 21 04:52:27 <GAN900> asj, and they HAVE said they'd support their products better in the future than they did in the past.
Jun 21 04:52:39 <RST38h> digitalsurgeon: Any Flash-based device from Samsung
Jun 21 04:52:40 <asj> RST38h: symbian's posix support is unuseable, and "underneath" is the lamest excuse I've ever heard
Jun 21 04:52:53 <RST38h> asj: It is sufficient for me.
Jun 21 04:52:53 <digitalsurgeon> samsung makes flash based devices ?
Jun 21 04:53:00 <RST38h> asj: Does all the basic things
Jun 21 04:53:01 <GAN900> asj, so kindly stop spewing uninformed nonsense since you clearly aren't very familiar with Maemo's history.
Jun 21 04:53:01 <digitalsurgeon> wow thats new for me :)
Jun 21 04:53:16 <RST38h> digitalsurgeon: I think a lot of thing are new to you
Jun 21 04:53:18 <asj> GAN900: maemo's history is irrelevant
Jun 21 04:53:31 <digitalsurgeon> flash is a performance hog, but qt quick just flies, even on symbian.
Jun 21 04:53:33 <RST38h> digitalsurgeon: So, if I were you, I would be sitting quietly and listening.
Jun 21 04:53:36 <asj> GAN900: unknown trial devices that weren't important 3 years ago and are less no
Jun 21 04:53:36 <asj> w
Jun 21 04:54:13 <RST38h> digitalsurgeon: Wonderful, "just flies" is what we have heard of Clutter based UI
Jun 21 04:54:22 <digitalsurgeon> RSt38h: dude if you are so pissed at N900 then why no go buy something else and stop whining ?
Jun 21 04:54:31 <ljp> except 'just flies' also includes development time
Jun 21 04:54:40 <GAN900> ljp, as for that latest update, well, I got more regression than update.
Jun 21 04:54:42 <RST38h> digitalsurgeon: You probably missed Clutter advocacy phase from Nokia
Jun 21 04:54:49 <digitalsurgeon> i meant the development time, i made the copter game in one day
Jun 21 04:55:16 <GAN900> digitalsurgeon, because we'd like to see the platform succeed.
Jun 21 04:55:32 <GAN900> Despite the fact that Nokia does everything in its power to see it fail.
Jun 21 04:55:41 <N900bastard> who is calling 1.2 pr update? they broke more things that fixed
Jun 21 04:55:47 <RST38h> true
Jun 21 04:56:18 <digitalsurgeon> i guess u guys are fan bois for gtk or clutter :)
Jun 21 04:56:26 <GAN900> N900bastard, +1
Jun 21 04:56:42 <GAN900> And "hundreds" of developers is an interesting number.
Jun 21 04:56:55 <asj> digitalsurgeon: just whingers :)
Jun 21 04:56:57 <GAN900> considering the Fremantle team is down to skeleton crew size.
Jun 21 04:57:23 <GAN900> asj, how cleverly dismissive of people you disagree with.
Jun 21 04:57:32 <RST38h> moo wazd
Jun 21 04:57:36 <ljp> because fremantle is in maintainence mode
Jun 21 04:57:54 <RST38h> asj: and not even caring to check who these people are...
Jun 21 04:58:09 <GAN900> ljp, yes, because Nokia doesn't care about their existing customers
Jun 21 04:58:11 <N900bastard> typical of this channel to dismiss people they dont agree with as trolls or noobies
Jun 21 04:58:25 <RST38h> whoch is making the whole thing even funnier
Jun 21 04:58:30 <ljp> GAN900: wrong
Jun 21 04:58:34 <GAN900> So don't trot out your "big" update as some sort of proof that they do.
Jun 21 04:58:54 <RST38h> GAN900 <-- a newbie troll indeed
Jun 21 04:59:16 * GAN900 tries one more time to get google docs to let him edit mwkn before sleeping.
Jun 21 04:59:28 <asj> GAN900: the only thing you do on irc is complain, and tmo is so full of complaints it's hard to see anything else eh?
Jun 21 04:59:32 <ljp> hmm. so if nokia puts out an update its not supporting customers, and if nokia does not put out an update its not supporting customers, either. gotcha
Jun 21 04:59:39 <GAN900> asj, good for you.
Jun 21 04:59:42 <digitalsurgeon> but you guys are acting as trolls
Jun 21 04:59:55 <digitalsurgeon> any ways what ever makes you guys happy and go to sleep :)
Jun 21 05:00:18 <N900bastard> how can anyone in their right mind call 1.2 update?????
Jun 21 05:00:32 <RST38h> Yes, we are all trolls here
Jun 21 05:00:37 <ljp> i dunno, works for me, and gave me new features
Jun 21 05:00:38 <GAN900> ljp, an "update" that's months delayed and has more regressions than fixes isn't really an update.
Jun 21 05:00:42 <RST38h> trololololo is what we do
Jun 21 05:01:37 <asj> certainly an unhappy bunch
Jun 21 05:01:40 <GAN900> Sorry, Jaffa, thwarted by Docs.
Jun 21 05:02:11 <N900bastard> it's funny how 1.2 fixed a couple of bugs (overshadowed by numerous regressions) but Nokia apologists get a boner in their pants
Jun 21 05:02:14 <frals> more regressions than fixes sounds a tad made up tbh
Jun 21 05:02:30 <GAN900> frals, hyperbole helps keep me sane.
Jun 21 05:03:00 <GAN900> At the end of my patience here, so. . . . ;)
Jun 21 05:03:45 <RST38h> how many nokia apologists do you know?
Jun 21 05:03:55 <RST38h> haven't they been a dying kind lately?
Jun 21 05:04:25 <N900bastard> Is quim and other nokians still posting on maemo.org or have gthe
Jun 21 05:04:40 <RST38h> Ah those...
Jun 21 05:04:46 <N900bastard> or have they run away completely to meego?
Jun 21 05:05:09 <RST38h> no, Quim is still around, making sure he mentions Meego in his every post though
Jun 21 05:06:22 <N900bastard> Nokia have fucked every n900 owner and it's criminal that they're still introducing the N900 in markets, a device they have killed off
Jun 21 05:06:41 <ljp> evidence? or are you just talking out your *ss?
Jun 21 05:07:07 <N900bastard> ljp: you serious?
Jun 21 05:07:22 <ljp> you just contridicted yourself in one sentence
Jun 21 05:07:39 <N900bastard> i did?
Jun 21 05:07:46 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: i don't think symbian supports posix :)
Jun 21 05:07:52 <N900bastard> prey tell how
Jun 21 05:07:52 <ljp> 'introducing' and 'killed off'
Jun 21 05:08:07 <Jaffa> GAN900: No probs, let me put it somewhere else and we can publish when ready
Jun 21 05:08:09 <RST38h> symbian supported posix since S60e3 at leat
Jun 21 05:08:16 <N900bastard> yes....thats what nokia did cause they re so fucking greedy
Jun 21 05:08:20 <RST38h> they had to, to make JVM work.
Jun 21 05:08:42 <ljp> N900bastard: again. evidence?
Jun 21 05:09:21 <ljp> i personally knoq about 50 guys here that would state the contrary
Jun 21 05:09:21 <asj> RST38h: have you ever developped for symbian, really is this your posix argument? really?
Jun 21 05:09:24 <ljp> know
Jun 21 05:09:47 <RST38h> Yes, I have developed for Symbian. And for Maemo too.
Jun 21 05:09:55 <N900bastard> current fremantle folks is 3 guys pretnding nokia cares about mameo....every other fucker ha now moved on to meego
Jun 21 05:10:01 <RST38h> ljp: And while we are at this topic, have you ever developed for something?
Jun 21 05:10:26 <RST38h> N900bastard: Meego or Harmattan?
Jun 21 05:10:32 * Arkenoi suffered 3 times as Nokia changed OS in my handhelds without *ANY* compatibility already (geos->s80->s60->maemo) and at least once compatibility was quite limited (s80v1 to s80v2)
Jun 21 05:10:55 <ljp> RST38h: no, I just been sitting on my butt for the last 10 years picking my nose
Jun 21 05:11:06 <N900bastard> point is: the focus for nokia is meego....not maemo that they lied to us about
Jun 21 05:11:08 <RST38h> ljp: I see.
Jun 21 05:11:20 <Arkenoi> so i did not really expect anything really different from i previous experience
Jun 21 05:11:25 <RST38h> Well, they have not really lied
Jun 21 05:11:27 <Arkenoi> from my even
Jun 21 05:11:50 <RST38h> They are just changing their plans so often that it is impossible to expect support from them
Jun 21 05:12:39 <asj> RST38h: lol, sorry, but that's too funny I just can't get over it.  Next thing you'll say is you like Symbian C++ and think everyone should use a cleanup stack. :)
Jun 21 05:12:40 <N900bastard> i say to every developer: fuck meego and abandon this sinking ship....enough of nokia bullshit
Jun 21 05:13:19 <frals> great to have you in this channel N900bastard
Jun 21 05:13:21 * RST38h does not necessarily likes Symbian but he has programed for it. And not having POSIX there would have made his job way more difficult.
Jun 21 05:13:40 <ljp> N900bastard: you only think its sinking cause you are looking into a morror
Jun 21 05:13:42 <ljp> mirror
Jun 21 05:13:57 <ljp> and seeing oppositeland
Jun 21 05:14:14 <RST38h> the other bank, you mean?
Jun 21 05:14:21 <N900bastard> community support my ass suckers - keep believing nokia bullshit
Jun 21 05:14:29 <RST38h> are we talking about Styx, btw? =)
Jun 21 05:14:30 <asj> N900bastard: bye :)
Jun 21 05:14:50 <N900bastard> asj: truth hurts dont it?
Jun 21 05:14:57 <Surfa> boohoo
Jun 21 05:15:15 <ljp> there's 3 truths. yours, mine and the truth
Jun 21 05:15:23 <Surfa> truth my ass :)
Jun 21 05:15:48 <N900bastard> many long time maemo members abandoning this circus
Jun 21 05:16:03 <timeless_mbp> N900bastard: if you're planning to be a troll, could you please try to spell the name of your target correctly?
Jun 21 05:16:06 <ljp> and many more longimt Qt members have joined
Jun 21 05:16:09 <timeless_mbp> i'm not sure where mameo is
Jun 21 05:16:10 <RST38h> many will probably get back once the next device is released
Jun 21 05:16:17 <asj> N900bastard: why are you here?
Jun 21 05:16:30 <RST38h> which does not explain why each device has to be abandoned 6 months before the next one is released
Jun 21 05:16:39 <N900bastard> asj: it's a free society aint it?
Jun 21 05:17:02 <timeless_mbp> N900bastard: no
Jun 21 05:17:09 <timeless_mbp> this is a community channel
Jun 21 05:17:10 <ljp> hmm. .lets see now.. developers working + recent update = abandonded. ok. go tit
Jun 21 05:17:12 <timeless_mbp> not a free society
Jun 21 05:17:19 <timeless_mbp> you're free to rant somewhere else
Jun 21 05:17:25 <timeless_mbp> some of us would like to sleep in peace
Jun 21 05:17:39 <Arkenoi> RST38h, it is easily explained: senior management are "phone" people. and typical "top handset" lifespan is half an year or less
Jun 21 05:17:45 <timeless_mbp> now please, either explain what happened to you in 1.2, or go away
Jun 21 05:17:50 <RST38h> ljp: update that breaks things rather than fixing them, is not a good thing
Jun 21 05:17:57 <N900bastard> i wont reveal my true identity but you should think before calling people trolls. i was doing this long time ago when you were still running in diapers mate.
Jun 21 05:17:57 <Arkenoi> and they simply do not understand the difference
Jun 21 05:18:09 <timeless_mbp> personally while i'm disappointed that 1.2 was incredibly delayed, i did find its additional features useful
Jun 21 05:18:19 <RST38h> Arkenoi: Don't they see other companies operation though?
Jun 21 05:18:22 <timeless_mbp> i do use the Calendar integration in Modest
Jun 21 05:18:26 <RST38h> Arkenoi: Apple? Google?
Jun 21 05:18:43 <RST38h> 1.2 has broken Phone application.
Jun 21 05:18:51 <ljp> works for me
Jun 21 05:18:57 <ljp> i call my wife all the time
Jun 21 05:18:58 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: broken how?
Jun 21 05:19:01 <Arkenoi> RST38h, nope, i just think they work for nokia for a long time and they just act as always and do not care until get fucked (and do not care even then)
Jun 21 05:19:02 <RST38h> A moment.
Jun 21 05:19:24 <N900bastard> 1.2 has lots broken....not just phone app
Jun 21 05:19:38 <timeless_mbp> N900bastard: please explain what's broken
Jun 21 05:19:45 <asj> N900bastard: why hide behind a mask?
Jun 21 05:19:52 <timeless_mbp> and if you can't point to bugs in bugs.maemo.org, then, please file them
Jun 21 05:19:59 <timeless_mbp> Arkenoi: management will do until it is replaced
Jun 21 05:20:08 <timeless_mbp> which is unfortunate, but that's how management works
Jun 21 05:20:43 <N900bastard> and yet because the fucking battery lasts 3 minutes longer after 1.2 the fan boys declare it huge success and get a hard on in their pants
Jun 21 05:21:09 <Surfa> N900bastard, what are you trying to achieve?
Jun 21 05:21:21 <N900bastard> truth
Jun 21 05:21:24 <joga> I'm content with my n900 and don't really care if nokia doesn't support it
Jun 21 05:21:28 <Surfa> by trolling here? :)
Jun 21 05:21:31 <ljp> N900bastard: i think youve mistaken n900 with an iPad
Jun 21 05:21:39 <N900bastard> Surfa: truth
Jun 21 05:21:46 <RST38h> timeless: Set your Phone app to the portrait mode. Put the phone down, locking it. Let someone call it. Watch the screen going through convulsions for 2-5 seconds before you can answer the call.
Jun 21 05:21:52 <Surfa> N900bastard, and how this all whining is giving you the truth?
Jun 21 05:22:07 <joga> there are many shortcomings with the phone app though, compared to features of most previous nokia phones
Jun 21 05:22:08 <Appiah> RST38h: is that in PR1.2 ?
Jun 21 05:22:12 <N900bastard> no but...
Jun 21 05:22:16 <joga> not that I really need any of those myself, though
Jun 21 05:22:18 <RST38h> Arkenoi: Do we already have a bug filed for this thing?
Jun 21 05:22:21 <RST38h> Appiah: Yes.
Jun 21 05:22:26 <Appiah> RST38h: crap...
Jun 21 05:22:36 <N900bastard> meego is doomed
Jun 21 05:22:36 <Surfa> N900bastard, ok so again, what are you trying to achieve with this all? :)
Jun 21 05:22:54 <microlith> N900bastard: shouldn't you be trolling on tmo?
Jun 21 05:23:03 <N900bastard> i want to enlighten people
Jun 21 05:23:12 <Appiah> oh
Jun 21 05:23:14 <digitalsurgeon> guys go watch That 70s Show, that would cool you down
Jun 21 05:23:17 <joga> enlighten about what?
Jun 21 05:23:35 <Appiah> I almost forgot about N900bastard
Jun 21 05:23:41 <N900bastard> microlith: trust me mate i know more about maemo than you can ever hope to learn
Jun 21 05:23:43 <RST38h> N900bastard: Are you sure we need enlightening here?
Jun 21 05:23:43 <Appiah> comes in with different nicks starting with n900
Jun 21 05:23:49 <Surfa> N900bastard, there's nothing you have said that people haven't already heard and most of your enlightment is just your subjective view
Jun 21 05:23:50 <Appiah> and starts ranting about the support for meego
Jun 21 05:23:57 <joga> you'll probably find that on this channel, most know what they've bought
Jun 21 05:24:00 <microlith> N900bastard: Surely you do, because you said so on IRC ;)
Jun 21 05:24:26 <asj> that call went well...I dunno
Jun 21 05:24:30 <Surfa> N900bastard, best way to enlighten people is to file bugs for the problems so they can be fixed
Jun 21 05:24:42 <Arkenoi> RST38h, yep, there was one
Jun 21 05:24:49 <N900bastard> file bugs??? how fucking naive
Jun 21 05:25:00 <Surfa> N900bastard, have you done that?
Jun 21 05:25:08 <microlith> of course not
Jun 21 05:25:08 <Surfa> N900bastard, if not then you really can't say anything about it
Jun 21 05:25:09 <RST38h> Arkenoi: care to find bugid? I am looking through my mailbox but cannot find it
Jun 21 05:25:11 <ljp> he doesnt get paid for filling bugs
Jun 21 05:25:18 <Appiah> ye.. beacuse bugs never gets fixed... right? (me looking at the fix list for PR1.2)
Jun 21 05:25:25 <N900bastard> 100000 fucking times i filed a bug
Jun 21 05:25:35 <Appiah> under what name if I might ask N900bastard ?
Jun 21 05:25:37 <joga> are you sure about that number
Jun 21 05:25:45 <microlith> wow, 100000, that's a lot of hyperbole
Jun 21 05:25:53 <Surfa> nice contribution
Jun 21 05:25:59 <RST38h> maybe he was filing the same bug
Jun 21 05:26:06 <Arkenoi> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10613
Jun 21 05:26:07 <Surfa> it takes awhile to go throught that list of bugs and fix them
Jun 21 05:26:07 <RST38h> or filing it outside of bmo
Jun 21 05:26:07 <povbot> Bug 10613: screen glitches on incoming call
Jun 21 05:26:11 <N900bastard> i wont tell my identity here - you wouldnt believe me anyways
Jun 21 05:26:16 <RST38h> Arkenoi: thanks, voting for it
Jun 21 05:26:23 <joga> N900bastard: or care
Jun 21 05:26:31 <ljp> he ment 100000 in binary
Jun 21 05:26:33 <microlith> N900bastard: I'd probably be disappointed in your attitude towards people here
Jun 21 05:26:34 <Appiah> dont care
Jun 21 05:26:39 <Appiah> just wanna see how you file your reports
Jun 21 05:26:49 <joga> Appiah: think they really filed any?
Jun 21 05:26:50 <N900bastard> joga: right, not with your nokia blinders on
Jun 21 05:26:58 <joga> N900bastard: I don't have such. I'm no fan of nokia
Jun 21 05:27:30 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: i seem to recall you complaining about this
Jun 21 05:27:30 <joga> I happen to own this phone because of its technical merits alone and because of its usability for *me*
Jun 21 05:27:31 <Surfa> N900bastard, it's sound you're more like insulting us than giving feedback about n900
Jun 21 05:27:34 <timeless_mbp> i don't seem to recall suffering from it
Jun 21 05:27:47 <timeless_mbp> in fact we tried to reproduce it at dinner a week or two or three ago
Jun 21 05:27:47 <N900bastard> you all are so fucking naive but i dont give a shit no more
Jun 21 05:27:49 <RST38h> good for you
Jun 21 05:27:52 <asj> N900bastard: send us a link, show us a bug report you filed, really let's see one
Jun 21 05:27:59 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: did you file a bug?
Jun 21 05:28:00 <Appiah> N900bastard: thats what you say everytime you're here ranting
Jun 21 05:28:02 <Appiah> yet you come back?
Jun 21 05:28:04 <joga> N900bastard: you sound so immature you shouldn't really bother your head with our things anyway
Jun 21 05:28:21 <RST38h> timeless: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10613
Jun 21 05:28:22 <povbot> Bug 10613: screen glitches on incoming call
Jun 21 05:28:29 <N900bastard> asj: you think i'm stupid???
Jun 21 05:28:30 <Appiah> With all the time you put in here complaining maybe you could have filed proper bug reports ?
Jun 21 05:28:42 <RST38h> timeless: Notice that the screenshot is included with the bug report, to prevent you from claiming that "you could not reproduce it"
Jun 21 05:29:07 <Surfa> RST38h, it's pretty damn difficult to debug if you can't produce it :)
Jun 21 05:29:18 <N900bastard> Appiah: go ahead, file the fucking bug reports while nokia is laughing
Jun 21 05:29:27 <microlith> N900bastard: why not just gtfo?
Jun 21 05:29:29 <microlith> please
Jun 21 05:29:33 <microlith> you've got nothing useful to say
Jun 21 05:29:52 <Appiah> N900bastard: but I was talking about you?
Jun 21 05:29:52 <RST38h> Surfa:  It is reproducible 100% of time
Jun 21 05:30:02 <N900bastard> microlith: oh but you are so useful yourselv right?
Jun 21 05:30:10 <Appiah> sigh
Jun 21 05:30:12 <Appiah> this troll
Jun 21 05:30:21 <microlith> N900bastard: I may not be 100% useful but at least I'm not being rude
Jun 21 05:30:38 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: so...
Jun 21 05:30:54 <timeless_mbp> i think your steps which you provided over irc didn't specify 'start at the home screen'
Jun 21 05:30:55 <asj> N900bastard: so wait, you complain but won't put your money where your mouth is...? How is showing public bugs to the public being stupid?
Jun 21 05:30:59 <timeless_mbp> not certain
Jun 21 05:31:13 <microlith> asj: because he's a troll and likely a liar
Jun 21 05:31:22 <N900bastard> i was once very high up the maemo channel within nokia....trust me....just fucking trust me people
Jun 21 05:31:29 <microlith> why should we?
Jun 21 05:31:32 <Appiah> we dont care
Jun 21 05:31:34 <RST38h> Surfa: Similar effect occurs in other applications as they change orientation, so I guess it is somehow related to the way Nokia does those rotations since PR1.2
Jun 21 05:31:34 <microlith> you've given us no reason whatsoever
Jun 21 05:31:35 <ljp> cant be a trol. i doubt he ever worked for trolltech
Jun 21 05:31:48 <timeless_mbp> your description of the problem doesn't at all match the picture
Jun 21 05:31:51 <Macer> rescue me is making me tear up since i am dying laughing
Jun 21 05:32:00 <Macer> omg
Jun 21 05:32:04 <timeless_mbp> i thought you were complaining that it jumped back and forth between portrait and landscape
Jun 21 05:32:06 <Appiah> I dont see what that has to do with anything really , so what that you worked higher up?
Jun 21 05:32:11 <RST38h> Surfa: In other places it is simply uncomfortable, in the phone app it makes you miss calls
Jun 21 05:32:14 <N900bastard> i could give you inside info here you've never heard before but i cant
Jun 21 05:32:16 <stskeepsie> N900bastard: so, what's the URL for the internal repositories, only accessible within nokia?
Jun 21 05:32:29 <microlith> N900bastard: until you present proof you're just a troll, so hush
Jun 21 05:32:30 <timeless_mbp> N900bastard: you could, but you can't?
Jun 21 05:32:30 <RST38h> timeless: the picture shows the n900 screen at the moment of transition
Jun 21 05:32:33 <timeless_mbp> sure sounds like you can't
Jun 21 05:32:37 <stskeepsie> that's a pretty easy way to verify
Jun 21 05:32:41 <Macer> it is the funniest damn show i have seen in a while
Jun 21 05:32:43 <ljp> N900bastard: ahh, that explains it. disgruntled ex nokia employee
Jun 21 05:32:48 <N900bastard> stskeepsie: you surely are joking??? LOL LOL LOL
Jun 21 05:33:01 <asj> ljp: be nice to the janitorial staff ;)
Jun 21 05:33:06 <stskeepsie> N900bastard: nop, i'm not joking :) it's a simple question
Jun 21 05:33:06 <RST38h> timeless: it is a very good picture too, the photographer had a second or two to make it
Jun 21 05:33:34 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: yeah, that photo is pretty cool
Jun 21 05:33:48 <timeless_mbp> we never have any luck using cameras to take photos of the n900
Jun 21 05:33:54 <timeless_mbp> even when its screen isn't moving
Jun 21 05:33:55 <RST38h> At this positive note, I will excuse myself and go to work
Jun 21 05:34:30 <RST38h> meanwhile, you can contact GAN900 and tell him this problem does not exist
Jun 21 05:34:38 <RST38h> He will be absolutely delighted to know that
Jun 21 05:35:14 <Venemo> good morning
Jun 21 05:36:00 <asj> Venemo: GOOD MORNING!!!!!!
Jun 21 05:36:08 <timeless_mbp> oooh, SFO is getting free wifi
Jun 21 05:37:39 <asj> with so much 3g service is it really that important?
Jun 21 05:38:02 <timeless_mbp> asj: as a european who gets killed on roaming 3g charges/
Jun 21 05:38:04 <timeless_mbp> yes.
Jun 21 05:38:19 <stskeepsie> oh that was so the wrong irssi to quit
Jun 21 05:38:24 <asj> timeless_mbp: 3g pay as you go US sim? tmo+sidekick plan?
Jun 21 05:38:26 <timeless_mbp> and i mean the airport
Jun 21 05:38:44 <timeless_mbp> asj: sorry, i like being able to receive calls while i travel
Jun 21 05:38:49 <timeless_mbp> it's part of having a mobile phone...
Jun 21 05:38:50 <asj> timeless_mbp: picky picky
Jun 21 05:38:59 <timeless_mbp> i know, it sounds stupid
Jun 21 05:39:11 <asj> timeless_mbp: sip :) but who uses a phone for voice anymore?
Jun 21 05:39:11 <timeless_mbp> why would a mobile phone owner want to be able to receive phone calls...
Jun 21 05:39:21 <Jaffa> timeless_mbp: Or text messages
Jun 21 05:39:37 <Jaffa> Roaming charges really limits how useful my N900 is when travelling.
Jun 21 05:39:37 <timeless_mbp> Jaffa:  well, i could just stick to a british land line
Jun 21 05:39:43 <timeless_mbp> i hear those support text messages
Jun 21 05:39:46 <Jaffa> timeless_mbp: PPfft, I wouldn't.
Jun 21 05:39:52 <timeless_mbp> but i don't think i can take one of those with me either...
Jun 21 05:39:57 <Jaffa> timeless_mbp: Indeed they do. Not sure anyone uses that feature regularly.
Jun 21 05:40:14 * Jaffa should get ready for work.
Jun 21 05:40:15 <timeless_mbp> does the uk have mobile homes? :)
Jun 21 05:40:16 <asj> txt over sip is missing from most providers, I wonder why
Jun 21 05:40:41 <timeless_mbp> sms interconnect historically sucked
Jun 21 05:40:52 <timeless_mbp> mms interconnect was (is?) much worse
Jun 21 05:41:18 <ljp> hmm.. dang it. looks like I have to get back to working
Jun 21 05:41:25 <timeless_mbp> aww
Jun 21 05:41:28 * Jaffa remembers the days of intra-network only SMSes, and sharing cross-network centre numbers.
Jun 21 05:42:16 <asj> heh, international mms is well...heh that's why I have an n900, mms doesn't matter ;)
Jun 21 05:42:18 * timeless_mbp remembers them too
Jun 21 05:42:36 * timeless_mbp didn't bother using SMS but does remember the lack of utility
Jun 21 05:45:48 * ljp remembers when sms's were morse code
Jun 21 05:55:31 <wazd> meego community firmware should definitely be called "WeeGo" :)
Jun 21 05:56:17 <wazd> hello everyone btw :)
Jun 21 05:56:23 <Stskeeps> or GoMer
Jun 21 05:56:23 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 21 05:56:51 <microlith> I'll vote for GoMer
Jun 21 05:57:19 <wazd> Stskeeps: :D
Jun 21 05:57:22 <wazd> Stskeeps: nice :)
Jun 21 05:57:26 <timeless_mbp> NeeGo
Jun 21 05:57:34 <timeless_mbp> we are the knights of Nee
Jun 21 05:57:37 <timeless_mbp> Nee Go
Jun 21 05:57:48 <Venemo> by the way, what happened to Mer?
Jun 21 05:57:57 <Stskeeps> go read mer-project.blogspot.com
Jun 21 05:59:19 <Venemo> Stskeeps, I already read this blog :)
Jun 21 05:59:34 <tybollt> Jaffa: I agree about the limited usefullness due to roaming charges
Jun 21 05:59:51 <tybollt> Jaffa: Lucky me my N900 broke just in time for my vacation
Jun 21 05:59:52 <Venemo> Stskeeps: the last entry mentioning Mer said "Mer as a system will live on in Mer^2"
Jun 21 06:00:01 <tybollt> so I was never faced w/ that problem
Jun 21 06:00:06 <Venemo> Stskeeps: and since then, I haven't heard of it
Jun 21 06:00:55 <Stskeeps> Venemo: yeah.. and plans changed around a bit after we got meego running on n8x0
Jun 21 06:02:44 <Venemo> Stskeeps: so, the new plan is porting MeeGo instead of Harmattan?
Jun 21 06:02:54 <Stskeeps> Venemo: Mer^2 was for N8x0
Jun 21 06:03:06 <Venemo> Stskeeps: yes, I know
Jun 21 06:03:22 <Venemo> sorry, I meant "porting MeeGo instead of Fremantle" ?
Jun 21 06:03:39 <Stskeeps> Harmattan on N8x0 is just insane, MeeGo, less so :P
Jun 21 06:03:58 <Venemo> Stskeeps: :)
Jun 21 06:04:31 <Venemo> Stskeeps: so, this is the regular "MeeGo" and not "MeeGo-Harmattan", correct?
Jun 21 06:04:45 <Stskeeps> right
Jun 21 06:05:43 <Venemo> Stskeeps: okay
Jun 21 06:06:18 <Venemo> Stskeeps: thanks for the info
Jun 21 06:08:58 <plastun> hello! how to set style for TouchSelector items like in Phone? large text for the first line and small text for the second line?
Jun 21 06:11:09 <Venemo> plastun: what do you mean by a TouchSelector?
Jun 21 06:11:38 <plastun> I mean scrollable widget with n-columns and m rows
Jun 21 06:12:11 <Venemo> plastun: Qt or Gtk?
Jun 21 06:12:49 <plastun> PyGtk
Jun 21 06:13:09 <Venemo> plastun: well, then, I haven't a clue
Jun 21 06:13:15 <Venemo> plastun: I mostly develop in Qt
Jun 21 06:17:30 <Venemo> plastun: perhaps try #maemo-devel
Jun 21 06:17:43 <plastun> ok
Jun 21 06:23:41 <mece> good morning
Jun 21 06:23:53 <sandst1> morning
Jun 21 06:24:34 <shorter> hey, I've a 5.1 surround from logitech
Jun 21 06:24:47 <shorter> but it only has those three input for surround cards
Jun 21 06:25:03 <shorter> how do I plug in a stereo (like from an ipod) and have it sound full/good?
Jun 21 06:25:12 <shorter> oh shit
Jun 21 06:25:14 <shorter> wrong channel
Jun 21 06:25:17 <shorter> lolz
Jun 21 06:25:48 <Corsac>  I find your lack of input disturbing
Jun 21 06:26:00 <shorter> I'm going to blame it on pidgin's cntl+tab functionality
Jun 21 06:26:15 <shorter> me corsac?
Jun 21 06:28:06 <mece> shorter, thanks, I didn't know about ctrl-tab. Great and useful feature :)
Jun 21 06:28:13 <shorter> lol
Jun 21 06:28:15 <shorter> ouch
Jun 21 06:28:19 <shorter> try it in a browser
Jun 21 06:28:30 <shorter> dont forget cntl+shift+tab
Jun 21 06:28:32 <shorter> to go in reverse
Jun 21 06:28:44 <mece> nod I figured that one out already :)
Jun 21 06:29:16 <shorter> sub cntl for alt for most WM (in linux) features
Jun 21 06:29:30 <mece> ~seen x-fade
Jun 21 06:29:32 <infobot> x-fade is currently on #maemo (3d 21h 29m 55s) #meego (3d 21h 29m 55s), last said: 'Saviq: Only 1.10 as max.'.
Jun 21 06:30:31 <mece> howcome AIR feels more like lead?
Jun 21 06:30:39 <tybollt> AIR?
Jun 21 06:30:42 <mece> adobe
Jun 21 06:31:02 <tybollt> is that on N900 now?
Jun 21 06:31:09 <mece> no
Jun 21 06:31:13 <tybollt> ah for PC
Jun 21 06:31:15 <tybollt> yeah sure
Jun 21 06:31:15 <mece> yes
Jun 21 06:31:17 <tybollt> I argee
Jun 21 06:31:29 <mece> it's like the name is sarcasm.
Jun 21 06:31:35 <tybollt> my media centre at home does HD playback fine
Jun 21 06:31:59 <tybollt> w/ AIR I can't even do SD playback w/out lots of choppy chops
Jun 21 06:32:21 <tybollt> so yeah I agree - ironic name indeed
Jun 21 06:32:39 <mece> haha.. I never did any video playback with air, but all air apps I've used are incredibly slow and memory hungry
Jun 21 06:33:01 <tybollt> ugh yeah I bet
Jun 21 06:36:34 <mece> hmpf, I promoted a new version of qlister yesteday (that supports right-to-left languages) and the main package page hasn't been updated, so there's not proper link to the voting page.
Jun 21 06:36:43 <Venemo> I'd like to start my application on startup
Jun 21 06:36:52 <Venemo> could someone tell me what is wrong with this script?
Jun 21 06:36:56 <Venemo> start on started hildon-desktop
Jun 21 06:36:56 <Venemo> script
Jun 21 06:36:56 <Venemo>      /usr/local/bin/./EVE-Watcher without-ui
Jun 21 06:36:56 <Venemo> end script
Jun 21 06:37:02 <Venemo> it doesn't start
Jun 21 06:37:10 <mece> the ./
Jun 21 06:37:11 <Appiah> what language is that?
Jun 21 06:37:12 <mece> ?
Jun 21 06:37:26 <Stskeeps> upstart
Jun 21 06:37:27 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 21 06:37:42 <Venemo> the ./ is usually needed to start my app
Jun 21 06:37:46 <Appiah> ./usr/local/bin/EVE-Watcher without-ui
Jun 21 06:38:00 <mece> Venemo, but that only refers to "current dir" if you specify the path you don't need that
Jun 21 06:38:08 <Venemo> mece, okay
Jun 21 06:38:21 <Venemo> okay, will try
Jun 21 06:38:53 <mece> hmm should still work with ./ there though.
Jun 21 06:39:17 <mece> oh wait
Jun 21 06:39:51 <mece> Appiah, should there really be a . in front there? I'd say /usr/local/bin/EVE-Watcher without-ui
Jun 21 06:40:27 <Venemo> mece: still not working
Jun 21 06:42:07 <Appiah> mece: no idea on what Venemo is doing
Jun 21 06:42:21 <Appiah> i dont understand the "script , end script"
Jun 21 06:42:25 <Appiah> never used that
Jun 21 06:43:03 <frals_> wont it need run-standalone.sh?
Jun 21 06:43:06 <Venemo> Appiah: every script in /etc/event.d/ looks like this
Jun 21 06:43:18 <Appiah> yes but I never used it Venemo
Jun 21 06:43:26 <Appiah> never touched it
Jun 21 06:43:28 <frals_> ie run-standalone.sh /usr/local/bin/EVE-Watcher without-ui
Jun 21 06:44:12 <Venemo> frals_: trying now
Jun 21 06:44:34 <mece> frals_, does the latest fmms need testing? I can confirm it works :)
Jun 21 06:45:32 <Venemo> frals_: not working, either
Jun 21 06:47:11 <Stskeeps> morning andre__
Jun 21 06:47:22 <andre__> morning Stskeeps
Jun 21 06:47:40 <Stskeeps> had a good weekend?
Jun 21 06:48:22 <timeless_mbp> andre__: can you change bugs.maemo.org's default quoting behavior?
Jun 21 06:48:25 <timeless_mbp> iirc it's a param
Jun 21 06:48:34 <frals_> X-Fade: http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmms/ lists latest version in testing as 1.1.8 while http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/fmms/1.1.9/ seems to be in testing :)
Jun 21 06:48:36 <timeless_mbp> bugzilla for insane reasons defaults to full comment quote
Jun 21 06:48:44 <timeless_mbp> (broken out of the box)
Jun 21 06:49:11 <andre__> Stskeeps: was okayish... didn't do much. plus studying  :-/
Jun 21 06:49:42 <frals_> mece: always need votes ;-)
Jun 21 06:49:53 <frals_> Venemo: then i have no clue, sorry :p
Jun 21 06:49:54 <Stskeeps> andre__: i pretty much didn't do much after returning home saturday, i'm always a bit comatose after trips :P
Jun 21 06:50:03 <andre__> haha
Jun 21 06:50:43 <mece> Venemo,try this: http://pastebin.com/K1rSpky9
Jun 21 06:51:23 <mece> or something.
Jun 21 06:51:49 <Venemo> mece: will do
Jun 21 06:52:47 <mece> Meego release plans. If anyone's interested http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.1 (not the right channel, I know)
Jun 21 06:52:58 <andre__> timeless_mbp, I don't think there is any option for that.
Jun 21 06:53:35 <mece> frals_, I have that exact problem with qlister.
Jun 21 06:53:53 <mece> frals_, the testing link
Jun 21 06:54:50 <timeless_mbp> andre__: hrm
Jun 21 06:54:54 <mece> frals_, also, you could vote for your own app too :)
Jun 21 06:55:15 <mece> Venemo, did it work? Or got caught in a reboot loop?
Jun 21 06:55:16 <timeless_mbp> the version of bugzilla we have is so old
Jun 21 06:55:56 <Venemo> mece: a minute
Jun 21 06:56:43 <timeless_mbp> http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/3.6/en/html/userpreferences.html there's definitely a user pref for it in newer
Jun 21 06:56:57 <timeless_mbp> i had hoped there'd be a site default of "not stupid"
Jun 21 06:57:05 <timeless_mbp> if there isn't, please post a patch ;-)
Jun 21 07:00:48 <mece> hey, ansel-a is one vote from extras: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/ansela/0.9-5/
Jun 21 07:01:53 <RST38h> back
Jun 21 07:02:05 <timeless_mbp> what is it?
Jun 21 07:04:36 <mece> timeless_mbp, what is Ansel-A? It's a "Digital Darkroom" and it's a very cool app.
Jun 21 07:04:50 <timeless_mbp> "Adding ansela"
Jun 21 07:06:51 <mece> here's the announce thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55861 definately one of the best apps imo.
Jun 21 07:07:25 <timeless_mbp> kinda slow?
Jun 21 07:07:36 <timeless_mbp> "Loading Photos...5"
Jun 21 07:07:57 <mece> timeless_mbp, hmm yeah. But other than that it's really nice :)
Jun 21 07:08:35 <timeless_mbp> it's *really* slow
Jun 21 07:08:46 <TriztFromWork> A silly question: but why has the hildon-thumbnail program be run each time you reboot n900?
Jun 21 07:09:01 <Venemo> re
Jun 21 07:09:06 <Venemo> sorry, my machine just froze
Jun 21 07:09:06 <TriztFromWork> or open the gallery
Jun 21 07:09:07 <mece> timeless_mbp, Took about 20 seconds for me
Jun 21 07:09:10 <timeless_mbp> Trizt: it can't know what you've done to the system via usb
Jun 21 07:09:11 <Appiah> Venemo: :)
Jun 21 07:09:31 <Appiah> TriztFromWork: the indexer?
Jun 21 07:09:32 <mece> timeless_mbp, I only have some 100 photos though.
Jun 21 07:09:44 <TriztFromWork> timeless_mbp; it feels like it remakes the thumbnails each time, takes like 2 weeks and the phone is so lagish
Jun 21 07:10:29 <mece> TriztFromWork, how many photos do you have?
Jun 21 07:10:32 <TriztFromWork> Appiah; no clue, it appears as hildon-thumbnail when I do a ps
Jun 21 07:10:59 <TriztFromWork> mece; like all I have taken since 2001 and forward, ~800
Jun 21 07:11:10 <mece> oo
Jun 21 07:11:11 <mece> :)
Jun 21 07:12:12 <mece> TriztFromWork, eeh sorry I got confused about what we were talking about..
Jun 21 07:12:16 <TriztFromWork> so I would be happy if I could disable it, so it won't run automatically
Jun 21 07:12:34 <TriztFromWork> mece; hildon-thumbnail
Jun 21 07:12:40 * timeless_mbp kicks ansela out of devel
Jun 21 07:13:01 <Proteous> "go back to were you came from!!"
Jun 21 07:13:10 <Proteous> were?
Jun 21 07:13:18 <Proteous> s/were/where/
Jun 21 07:13:19 <infobot> Proteous meant: where?
Jun 21 07:13:36 <Venemo> mece: it seems that your solution is not working
Jun 21 07:13:46 <mece> Venemo, hm
Jun 21 07:13:48 <timeless_mbp> Proteous: nah, stop hiding from all the people
Jun 21 07:13:59 <timeless_mbp> tiny caves are no place for a good application to hide
Jun 21 07:14:02 <Venemo> mece: however, I will give it one more try, just let me rebuild my app
Jun 21 07:14:03 <Proteous> heh
Jun 21 07:14:18 <mece> Venemo, can you run it directly from xterm like that?
Jun 21 07:14:24 <Proteous> yeah, I hear you can get eaten by a grue
Jun 21 07:16:53 <mece> Venemo, as in if you go to exterm and type  /usr/local/bin/EVE-Watcher without-ui
Jun 21 07:17:25 <Venemo> mece: yes, but the app terminates when I close the terminal
Jun 21 07:17:40 <mece> Venemo, yeah. still that script should work then.
Jun 21 07:17:50 <mece> what is it called?
Jun 21 07:18:00 <Venemo> the script?
Jun 21 07:18:17 <Venemo> it is located in /etc/event.d/ and the filename is eve-watcher (without extension)
Jun 21 07:20:37 <Venemo> mece: any ideas?
Jun 21 07:21:06 <mece> Venemo, try doing, as root, initctl list eve-watcher
Jun 21 07:21:36 <Venemo> the output is:
Jun 21 07:21:42 <Venemo> eve-watcher (stop) waiting
Jun 21 07:21:51 <mece> ok, so the script runs, but the app exits
Jun 21 07:22:03 <Venemo> it shouldn't exit
Jun 21 07:22:21 <mece> what happens if you run it as root?
Jun 21 07:22:27 <Venemo> also, it should display a message box when started (just to make sure that it runs)
Jun 21 07:22:32 <Venemo> which does not appear
Jun 21 07:22:56 <Venemo> the app should not run as root, btw
Jun 21 07:23:02 <Venemo> or, at least, no reason to run it as root
Jun 21 07:25:11 <mece> Venemo, I guess it gives some errors if it crashes, so you could pipe the errors to a file..
Jun 21 07:26:18 <Venemo> mece: no, it shouldn't give any errors. at least, it doesn't give any if I simply launch it
Jun 21 07:26:47 <Venemo> perhaps it shouldn't run when hildon-desktop is started, but when hildon-home is started?
Jun 21 07:26:49 <mece> Venemo, but obviously it doesn't work from event.d so maybe it gives errors
Jun 21 07:27:43 <Venemo> mece: hm
Jun 21 07:27:58 <Venemo> mece: is it possible to launch it when hildon-home is running?
Jun 21 07:28:49 <mece> Venemo, well, try putting  2> /tmp/eve-watcher-errors.log to the end of the command in the event.d file
Jun 21 07:30:02 <mece> and see what it says.
Jun 21 07:30:33 <Venemo> mece, okay
Jun 21 07:33:16 <Venemo> mece: still nothing
Jun 21 07:33:27 <Venemo> and there is no such file in /tmp, either
Jun 21 07:34:34 <mece> Venemo, but ok. Does the app work if you start it as root?
Jun 21 07:35:28 <plastun> how to add markupped text to HildonTouchSelector?
Jun 21 07:35:32 <Venemo> mece: I dunno, wait a moment
Jun 21 07:37:24 <mece> plastun, I'm not sure you can.
Jun 21 07:37:45 <plastun> I can, but it works incorrectry
Jun 21 07:37:50 <mece> plastun, oh.
Jun 21 07:37:58 <plastun> cell_renderer.set_property('markup', 1)
Jun 21 07:38:00 <mece> plastun, what's the problem then?
Jun 21 07:38:16 <plastun> do not set property 'markup', it add text '1' ot touch selector
Jun 21 07:38:17 <mece> plastun, right cell_renderer.. yeah.
Jun 21 07:38:28 <Venemo> mece: yes, it seems that it runs as root if I launch it from xterm
Jun 21 07:38:54 <mece> plastun, 1 is not a markup.
Jun 21 07:39:21 <Venemo> mece: initctl now says, "No jobs matching 'eve-watcher'"
Jun 21 07:39:47 <plastun> mece, yes, but I set cellrenderertext to column, not for each item. right?
Jun 21 07:47:43 <furunk3l> yes hello
Jun 21 07:49:37 <timeless_mbp> andre__: comment 30 was funny
Jun 21 07:49:42 <timeless_mbp> > I could verify this bug if somebody will give detailed explanations how to open
Jun 21 07:49:42 <timeless_mbp> > http://tinyarro.ws/
Jun 21 07:51:06 <mece> plastun, markup property sets the markup'ed text to render, so in that case you have to render each element afaict.
Jun 21 07:51:29 * plastun dazed
Jun 21 07:51:33 <Venemo> mece: any ideas?
Jun 21 07:52:13 <plastun> it there any other methods to set cellrenderer property and add only elements, with no selecting cellrenderer?
Jun 21 07:52:15 <andre__> timeless_mbp, doesn't it say much about testing skills?
Jun 21 07:52:19 * andre__ sighs
Jun 21 07:52:33 <timeless_mbp> i'm surprised you didn't offer detailed instructions as comment 31
Jun 21 07:52:50 <mece> plastun, 'markup' is the same as 'text' but with markup parsed. like instead of cell_renderer.set_property('text', 'An item') you do cell_renderer.set_property('markup', '<b>An item</b>') or something like that.
Jun 21 07:52:50 <frals_> bug #?
Jun 21 07:53:07 <timeless_mbp> frals: just search for 'tinyarro.ws' in bugzilla
Jun 21 07:53:41 <plastun> mece, I understand
Jun 21 07:53:55 <timeless_mbp> andre__: but yeah, i think that one might be worth framing
Jun 21 07:54:34 <plastun> mece, can you show simple exaple how to add items with different cell renderers?
Jun 21 07:54:57 <mece> plastun, I've never bothered.. lemme see if I can find something.
Jun 21 07:55:33 <timeless_mbp> andre__: would it be reasonable to note in the public bug what the general fix is so that someone who wants to backport it could know
Jun 21 07:55:41 <andre__> feel free to
Jun 21 07:58:27 <frals_> (lol)
Jun 21 07:59:42 <timeless_mbp> frals: as andre__ noted, our testers are impressive
Jun 21 08:02:11 <frals_> hehe
Jun 21 08:03:14 <tybollt> frals
Jun 21 08:03:55 <mece> frals_, got flattr?
Jun 21 08:04:02 <tybollt> frals_: Will you take offence to my calling your update frquency as flooding? >:D
Jun 21 08:04:02 <frals_> negative
Jun 21 08:04:22 <frals_> tybollt: ive pushed one update the last 2 weeks ;p
Jun 21 08:04:28 <mece> frals_, want an invite?
Jun 21 08:04:35 <tybollt> frals_: ? :P
Jun 21 08:04:51 <frals_> mece: no idea what it is, dont think i need it? but thanks! ;)
Jun 21 08:04:59 <tybollt> then my device has cocked up :)
Jun 21 08:05:10 <tybollt> it's asked me to install fmms updates many many times :)
Jun 21 08:05:13 <mece> frals_, it's a micro donation service
Jun 21 08:05:29 <mece> tybollt, you shouldn't have devel enabled...
Jun 21 08:06:01 <mece> tybollt, :P
Jun 21 08:06:14 <frals_> tybollt: i released 1.1.8 like 2 weeks ago and 1.1.9 yesterday or the day before that ;)
Jun 21 08:06:59 <vldcnst> timeless_mpb: do you own tinyarro.ws?
Jun 21 08:07:20 <timeless_mbp> no
Jun 21 08:07:21 <timeless_mbp> why?
Jun 21 08:07:31 <vldcnst> Just wondering.
Jun 21 08:07:50 <mece> timeless_mbp, you linked to it..
Jun 21 08:07:51 <timeless_mbp> vldcnst: i work on the web browser
Jun 21 08:08:08 <timeless_mbp> and we get screwed because the idiots who "own" fonts don't think having decent fonts is important
Jun 21 08:08:24 <timeless_mbp> so i file bugs about various sites in an effort to get them to make the fonts suck less
Jun 21 08:08:34 <mece> :)
Jun 21 08:08:44 <timeless_mbp> tinyarro.ws happens to be a convenient site
Jun 21 08:08:49 <tybollt> timeless_mbp: do you know of a WM called ION?
Jun 21 08:08:54 <timeless_mbp> yes
Jun 21 08:08:59 <timeless_mbp> a colleague uses it
Jun 21 08:09:00 <tybollt> Do you know Tuomo?
Jun 21 08:09:23 <tybollt> (dude who write ION and who is quite the rabid font ranter :)
Jun 21 08:09:30 <timeless_mbp> do i want to know why google suggest for 'tuomo' is 'tuomo ruutu girlfriend'
Jun 21 08:09:44 <tybollt> timeless_mbp: :D
Jun 21 08:09:51 <frals_> lol
Jun 21 08:10:19 <tybollt> Ion (window manager) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - [ Översätt den här sidan ]
Jun 21 08:10:22 <tybollt> It is the successor of PWM and is written by the same author, Tuomo Valkonen. Since the first release of Ion in the summer 2000, similar alternative window ...
Jun 21 08:10:47 <timeless_mbp> yeah, clearly, not the right tuomo
Jun 21 08:12:06 <Venemo> hey guys
Jun 21 08:12:24 <Venemo> could anyone please tell me how to run my app on system start on Maemo?
Jun 21 08:12:40 <Venemo> no matter which tip I tried in event.d, it is not working :(
Jun 21 08:18:25 <toggles_w> Venemo: you can put it in /etc/rc.local
Jun 21 08:19:03 <Venemo> hm
Jun 21 08:19:17 <Venemo> it seems that I managed to get it to work
Jun 21 08:19:39 <Venemo> although it runs as root, and not as user
Jun 21 08:21:43 <Venemo> toggles_w: this is working:
Jun 21 08:21:52 <Venemo> description "starts EVE-Watcher"
Jun 21 08:21:52 <Venemo> start on started hildon-desktop
Jun 21 08:21:52 <Venemo> exec run-standalone.sh /usr/local/bin/EVE-Watcher
Jun 21 08:22:12 <Venemo> toggles_w: however, I don't know how to pass an argument to the app
Jun 21 08:22:24 <Venemo> toggles_w: nor do I know how to start it as user "user"
Jun 21 08:22:54 <mece> Venemo: exec su - user -c "exec run-standalone.sh /usr/local/bin/EVE-Watcher without-ui"
Jun 21 08:26:14 <Venemo> mece, thank you!
Jun 21 08:28:10 <mece> Venemo, did it work?
Jun 21 08:28:38 <Venemo> mece, yes it did
Jun 21 08:29:02 <Venemo> mece: you just saved my day! :)
Jun 21 08:29:08 <Venemo> mece: thank you very much!
Jun 21 08:30:26 <mece> Venemo, np
Jun 21 08:33:14 <mece> Qlister 0.2-7 needs some votes btw, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/qlister/0.2-7/ so test it if you have time.
Jun 21 08:33:33 <mece> If you have apps that need testing I can be of service btw.
Jun 21 08:36:41 <lcuk> mornin maemo \o
Jun 21 08:37:41 <frals_> mornin lcuk
Jun 21 08:37:43 <frals_> hows you?
Jun 21 08:39:14 <lcuk> morning frals - im good thanks :) coffee with zero sugars and still alive!
Jun 21 08:39:30 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jun 21 08:39:42 <lcuk> morning Jaffa \o
Jun 21 08:39:46 <lcuk> which country are you in today
Jun 21 08:40:32 * lcuk puts 10p in the maemo planet - it does appear to have stalled
Jun 21 08:40:44 <lcuk> barisione, did you mention last night you submitted something that should be on planet?
Jun 21 08:41:14 * SpeedEvil installs qlister.
Jun 21 08:41:46 <barisione> yes
Jun 21 08:41:55 <barisione> lcuk: the planet didn't update since the 18 it seems
Jun 21 08:43:31 <th3hate> can anyone answer my question about power kernel?
Jun 21 08:44:43 <lcuk> X-Fade, morning \o do you know anything about planet being stuck?
Jun 21 08:45:19 <mece> SpeedEvil, hope it works :)
Jun 21 08:45:42 <X-Fade> lcuk: Looking at that. The cron job runs as it should though.
Jun 21 08:46:16 <mece> X-Fade, hello, there seem to be some issue with replacing a package in texting. Do you have time to check it out?
Jun 21 08:47:28 <X-Fade> mece: Can be the same issue as the planet one, let me check that out first.
Jun 21 08:47:50 <mece> X-Fade, ok, thanks.
Jun 21 08:48:28 * lcuk slides a coffee over to X-Fade 
Jun 21 08:50:07 <Myrtti> hello all you beautiful people
Jun 21 08:50:34 <Jaffa> lcuk: UK this week
Jun 21 08:51:03 <lcuk> :D dont sound so downhearted jaffa :p :D
Jun 21 08:51:10 <lcuk> Myrtti, good morning x
Jun 21 08:51:13 <Jaffa> lcuk: Not been a fun morning
Jun 21 08:51:19 <lcuk> :(
Jun 21 08:51:50 <mece> Hello Myrtti and Jaffa
Jun 21 08:52:26 <mece> any particular reason why less is not promoted to extras?
Jun 21 08:56:42 <Jaffa> mece: 1) Because the developer hasn't promoted it to Extras-testing; 2) because it's not got an icon (including the standard CLI one); 3) it doesn't specifically state that this is for use on the command line only. However, it is optified :-)
Jun 21 08:58:19 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: ping
Jun 21 08:58:22 <Jaffa> GAN900: ping
Jun 21 08:58:33 <lcuk> ok, for things like this jaffa, do you think if one of the testing squad could actually make those tiny tweaks and send him a patch
Jun 21 08:58:48 <lcuk> to help him out
Jun 21 08:59:20 <marcus> Kinda offtopic, but does anybody know where the binary file of OpenOffice Word is located on Arch Linux?
Jun 21 08:59:22 <lcuk> it may push projects such as that forward - ie he might not add the icone because he doesnt know how
Jun 21 08:59:23 <Jaffa> lcuk: *Anyone* could send him a patch
Jun 21 08:59:32 <lcuk> yes i know
Jun 21 08:59:35 <joga> marcus: *really* off-topic
Jun 21 08:59:41 <Jaffa> lcuk: Doesn't have to be the Testing Squad. Could be any interested user (*cough* mece)
Jun 21 08:59:49 <joga> marcus: but guessing: /usr/bin/oowriter
Jun 21 09:00:00 <mece> Jaffa, :) all true. Where's that icon thing?
Jun 21 09:00:05 <lcuk> Jaffa, yeah was thinking the testing squad because they are reviewing - but yes mece is also reviewing :D
Jun 21 09:00:22 <joga> marcus: you can also find this out by yourself by typing in a terminal 'which oowriter'
Jun 21 09:00:33 <Jaffa> mece: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/QA_Checklist#Command_Line_applications
Jun 21 09:00:43 <marcus> which: no oowriter in (/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin/perlbin/site:/usr/bin/perlbin/vendor:/usr/bin/perlbin/core)
Jun 21 09:00:43 <joga> (I think the binary for the "word" portion of ooo is called oowriter)
Jun 21 09:00:46 <Jaffa> mece: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/Command_line_applications more specifically
Jun 21 09:00:47 <marcus> So guess not.
Jun 21 09:01:02 <joga> marcus: is it installed? usable?
Jun 21 09:01:06 <marcus> Indeed.
Jun 21 09:01:16 <joga> marcus: check the shortcut or something then to see what it launches
Jun 21 09:01:17 <lcuk> jaffa - hmm
Jun 21 09:01:18 <Myrtti> marcus: doesn't archlinux have an irc channel of their own?
Jun 21 09:01:32 <lcuk> perhaps that isnt highlighted in the testing guidelines ..
Jun 21 09:01:34 <joga> lunchie time ->
Jun 21 09:01:43 <marcus> I've got it open, I just want to tell Firefox that it should open .doc files with oowriter.
Jun 21 09:02:02 <lcuk> rather than fail a package - if in a position to offer a simple patch and guidance..
Jun 21 09:02:06 <marcus> Myrtti: They do, but I requires some sort of registration, so I can only "listen".
Jun 21 09:02:12 <timeless_mbp> ooh
Jun 21 09:02:16 <timeless_mbp> firealarm testing this morning
Jun 21 09:02:19 <Myrtti> marcus: the registration isn't rocket science
Jun 21 09:02:26 <timeless_mbp> good thing i don't go in that early :)
Jun 21 09:02:44 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, mind the firedoors!
Jun 21 09:03:14 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: they changed the way some of the emergency door thingies work
Jun 21 09:03:23 <timeless_mbp> i'm trying to decide if the new ones are better
Jun 21 09:03:36 <timeless_mbp> i suspect it takes an instruction manual to operate
Jun 21 09:03:57 <lcuk> lol well when im there ill let someone else open them for me :D
Jun 21 09:04:52 <mece> Jaffa, so adding the words "A cli " to the beginning of the first description line, making it A cli pager program similar to more and adding the icon would be enough?
Jun 21 09:05:21 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: learning from experience?
Jun 21 09:05:25 <timeless_mbp> that's not the nokia way
Jun 21 09:05:36 <mece> it doesn't have a bugtracker. should I link to the official less bugtracker?
Jun 21 09:05:37 <timeless_mbp> if at first you don't succeed, repeat until you do!
Jun 21 09:05:58 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, !! i have to
Jun 21 09:06:04 <lcuk> ive not got mnay fingers left
Jun 21 09:06:25 <timeless_mbp> we didn't let you keep them?
Jun 21 09:06:42 <timeless_mbp> i mean attached, detached, what's the difference?
Jun 21 09:06:46 <lcuk> you did, but according to my typing they are now in the wrong order
Jun 21 09:06:52 <timeless_mbp> heh
Jun 21 09:07:11 <alterego> One of my friends just suggested an app that detects lon preiods of time that the acceleromenter hasn't moved, causes an alarm and tells you to do some excercise :)
Jun 21 09:07:21 <Jaffa> mece: Dunno about the bug tracker, mailto:<triager> would be sufficient. Of course, it's also dependent on the packager being willing to promote it
Jun 21 09:07:26 <timeless_mbp> heh
Jun 21 09:07:38 <lcuk> alterego, lol
Jun 21 09:07:56 <alterego> Not sure how bad polling the accel would cost though :)
Jun 21 09:07:56 <Jaffa> alterego: I want an app which detects no movement between certain times of day; uses the light sensor and then sets my IM status to away.
Jun 21 09:08:15 <alterego> Jaffa, not bad. I could do that :P
Jun 21 09:08:33 <lcuk> alterego, what do you code in?  gtk or qt?
Jun 21 09:08:37 <alterego> I've got quite accoustomed to telepathy, auite liking it.
Jun 21 09:08:52 <alterego> lcuk: qt now, but I used to do everything in gtk.
Jun 21 09:09:25 <alterego> Were you one of the devs finding it hard to get to grips with Qt? or was that someone else?
Jun 21 09:09:27 * lcuk nods cool
Jun 21 09:09:31 <SpeedEvil> Sometimes the export process for planet can get stalled.
Jun 21 09:09:53 <lcuk> no im just wondering what limitations you find - since you are a crossover dev
Jun 21 09:09:57 <SpeedEvil> Historically at least, the bzip occasionally gell over due to various problems.
Jun 21 09:09:59 <lcuk> can youhappily create qt desktop widgets
Jun 21 09:10:02 <X-Fade> Should be going now again, we found the issue.
Jun 21 09:10:04 <SpeedEvil> err - never mind
Jun 21 09:10:09 <lcuk> \o/ X-Fade
Jun 21 09:10:36 <alterego> lcuk: doesn't feel like there are as many widgets for Qt out-of-the-box. but they do promote custom widget creation.
Jun 21 09:10:54 <ScriptFanix> timeless_mbp: reminds me of http://wintermute.legions.org/OUTSIDE/bofh/bofh17jul.html
Jun 21 09:10:55 <lcuk> alterego, is the process simple/as simple as it could be
Jun 21 09:11:09 <lcuk> and do you think theres any tricks missing to allowing qt widgets
Jun 21 09:11:16 <xDaReaperx> Hi
Jun 21 09:11:41 <xDaReaperx> hmm wasn't there a bug when you use Break , the phone switches completly to portait mode ? is this fixed ? cause it dosent seem to work for me
Jun 21 09:11:50 <alterego> lcuk: also, PySide (not sure about PyQt) seems really bad as it doesn't handle reference counting properly and commonly segfaults unless you explicitly keep references to all your widgets. Which isn't always the nicest thing in a flexible interpretted language.
Jun 21 09:11:54 <MohammadAG51> Braek
Jun 21 09:11:59 <xDaReaperx> yeah Braek
Jun 21 09:12:10 <MohammadAG51> use rotatedaemon, it's more "reliable"
Jun 21 09:12:20 <xDaReaperx> okay
Jun 21 09:12:21 <lcuk> no alterego - would a wrapper class around the hildon widget be required?
Jun 21 09:12:39 <alterego> lcuk: I find it just as simple as gtk tbh, in some cases it feels nicer.
Jun 21 09:13:25 <Jaffa> alterego: It doesn't even need to poll the accelerometer continually; it can just take a few samples every few minutes and if they're very close; assume the device hasn't moved.
Jun 21 09:13:33 <alterego> Semantically, they're pretty much identical though, they have their own meta object systems that implement dynamic properties and signals/slots.
Jun 21 09:13:47 <lcuk> alterego, sure it does - but qt shouldnt have the ballache portions, if there was a hildon_widget class (or whatever naming convention was) that neatly wrapped up all the rough edges
Jun 21 09:14:06 <alterego> Jaffa: sure, that would work, but then, it's not particulalry reliable. You might miss movement.
Jun 21 09:14:26 * timeless_mbp rotfl
Jun 21 09:14:29 <lcuk> technically guys you dont even need to check accelerometer
Jun 21 09:14:35 <timeless_mbp> ScriptFanix: thank you, i think that made my week
Jun 21 09:14:38 <lcuk> just see if the screen is on
Jun 21 09:14:45 <lcuk> /has been on
Jun 21 09:14:55 <xDaReaperx> MohammadAG51: does it resize the screen ? cause in portait mode the media player's screen is half cut
Jun 21 09:14:59 <alterego> lcuk: Actually, not having any hildon stuff seems better from my perspective, the less customisation required for an app to be mobile the better imo.
Jun 21 09:15:09 <lcuk> alterego, yeah i know
Jun 21 09:15:17 <lcuk> but ive seen the boiler plate in example widgets
Jun 21 09:15:23 <lcuk> that each app has to drag in
Jun 21 09:15:34 <MohammadAG51> xDaReaperx, obviously not, the media player is designed for landscape only
Jun 21 09:15:35 <alterego> Yeah, not done any custom widgets yet.
Jun 21 09:15:43 <xDaReaperx> Oh okay thanks
Jun 21 09:15:44 <alterego> But I will be soon enough  :)
Jun 21 09:15:50 <alterego> Anyhow, shower time.
Jun 21 09:15:52 <alterego> bbiab
Jun 21 09:15:57 <lcuk> \o
Jun 21 09:16:39 <SpeedEvil> Jaffa: alterego: the accellerometer in hardware can be configured to interrupt if trip points are exceeded
Jun 21 09:17:26 <alterego> SpeedEvil: awesome, I'll note that down, I was thinking something like inotify would help, but what you describe is much cooler, anyholw shower! bbiab :D
Jun 21 09:17:48 <SpeedEvil> alterego: I don't think it's implemented in the kernel driver though
Jun 21 09:18:05 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, docs said similar but did not elaborate could you add notes to the accelerometer page (or a subpage from it)
Jun 21 09:18:14 <SpeedEvil> What would be the correct process to poke for the sourcecode of powertop.
Jun 21 09:18:22 <Jaffa> SpeedEvil: Cool
Jun 21 09:18:24 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: I need to reread the datasheet
Jun 21 09:18:37 <lcuk> cool :) if you manage it it would be good
Jun 21 09:18:38 <SpeedEvil> Jaffa: It also supports hardware 'tap' events, which are unused too.
Jun 21 09:18:42 <Jaffa> lcuk: That doesn't work - if I'm on the train, I want to be contactable but may not be using the device.
Jun 21 09:18:46 <Jaffa> SpeedEvil: Oooh
Jun 21 09:18:51 <lcuk> because that also has things about sensitivity and also calibration
Jun 21 09:18:53 <Jaffa> All manner of shiny
Jun 21 09:19:17 <SpeedEvil> What would be the correct way to poke for the release of the sourcecode of 'powertop' - or to get it into extras-nonfree or somewhere?
Jun 21 09:19:28 <mece> ok, I sent him a pm with a link to a patched control file. Would be nice if he does it.
Jun 21 09:19:39 <pexi> ahh, this htc desire feels like a real phone ;)
Jun 21 09:19:43 <xDaReaperx> MohammadAG51 : hahaha i ran Firefox on N900 using rotatedaemo in portait mode , it turned my phone off xD
Jun 21 09:19:52 <xDaReaperx> too buggy
Jun 21 09:20:08 <xDaReaperx> after all its for testing
Jun 21 09:20:46 <mece> SpeedEvil, is the source not available?
Jun 21 09:21:06 <MohammadAG51> xDaReaperx, that's cause firefox supports portrait mode
Jun 21 09:21:16 <xDaReaperx> yeah i guess :D
Jun 21 09:22:06 <SpeedEvil> mece: As I understnad it, no
Jun 21 09:22:14 <SpeedEvil> err
Jun 21 09:22:26 <SpeedEvil> Why is it possible to thumb up https://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_i386/www2sms/1.0.5/ ?
Jun 21 09:23:34 <timeless_mbp> you mean instead of https://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/www2sms/1.0.5/ ?
Jun 21 09:24:25 <crashanddie> It's an italian and a greek arguing about who made the best civilisation. The Greek goes "We built the Parthenon", the Italian says "Ah, but we built the Colliseum". The Greek says "We invented mathematics", to which the Italian replies "But we built the Roman Empire". The Greek finally says "We invented sex!". "That's true", the Italian replies, "but we thought about having it with women!"
Jun 21 09:24:26 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 21 09:24:36 <timeless_mbp> because we're silly, find/file a bug :)
Jun 21 09:24:41 <SpeedEvil> k
Jun 21 09:24:41 <timeless_mbp> i think there should be one
Jun 21 09:24:59 <timeless_mbp> crashanddie: heh
Jun 21 09:29:32 <shorter> how can I tell if the proxies in the internet connection preferences are connecting?
Jun 21 09:29:37 <shorter> any debuging methodologies?
Jun 21 09:29:49 <mece> SpeedEvil, is powertop even in the repos
Jun 21 09:30:25 <lcuk> mece, http://maemo.org/packages/view/powertop/
Jun 21 09:31:46 <MohammadAG51> frals, you get a lot of weird bugs on bugzilla :P
Jun 21 09:32:09 <lcuk> MohammadAG51, be thankful you havent got your own personal bugzilla :P
Jun 21 09:32:13 <SpeedEvil> mece: no
Jun 21 09:32:39 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/packages/view/powertop/
Jun 21 09:33:23 <alterego> shorter: whatismyip.com?
Jun 21 09:33:25 <xDaReaperx> Zen bound is a fun game :D
Jun 21 09:33:26 <SpeedEvil> Oops
Jun 21 09:33:39 <SpeedEvil> It would seem the original packager noticed.
Jun 21 09:33:43 <SpeedEvil> It's in devel now
Jun 21 09:34:12 <shorter> alterego, I'm not connected yet
Jun 21 09:34:27 <alterego> shorter: well, when you are ...
Jun 21 09:34:38 <mece> ah non-free
Jun 21 09:35:02 <alterego> Is there anything I have to do to my product page for an app to make it recognise my maemo account and apply karma?
Jun 21 09:35:08 <shorter> trying to get connected
Jun 21 09:36:02 <mece> alterego, no.
Jun 21 09:36:23 <alterego> cool, so it should show up eventually then :)
Jun 21 09:36:26 <mece> alterego, only the talk.maemo.org -> maemo.org needs to be done manually.
Jun 21 09:36:38 <alterego> Right, suspected as much.
Jun 21 09:36:50 <mece> alterego, did your app get to extras?
Jun 21 09:37:03 <alterego> mece: yup
Jun 21 09:37:13 <mece> alterego, nice. which one?
Jun 21 09:37:37 <alterego> mece: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/media-im-status-updater/
Jun 21 09:37:49 <mece> alterego, right.. I'm using that one I think.
Jun 21 09:37:53 <mece> at least it's installed.
Jun 21 09:37:59 <mece> I haven't really tested it..
Jun 21 09:38:25 <alterego> :) Well if you've not configured it before you need to enable/configure it first.
Jun 21 09:38:33 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, your bouncer's been a bit laggy lately
Jun 21 09:38:48 <lcuk> morning tekojo \o
Jun 21 09:38:53 <MohammadAG> said something on :36:52, I'll see when it goes through
Jun 21 09:39:32 <tekojo> morning lcuk!
Jun 21 09:40:08 <BCMM> what's that app called that lets you use wifi without being on GSM?
Jun 21 09:40:29 <BCMM> (i mean, like offline mode but with wlan)
Jun 21 09:40:29 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: you can do that nromally.
Jun 21 09:40:42 <SpeedEvil> there is 'cell modem switcher' or something
Jun 21 09:40:58 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: how do you do that normally?
Jun 21 09:41:08 <mece> alterego, it works :)
Jun 21 09:41:17 <BCMM> offline mode turns off wlan doesn't it?
Jun 21 09:41:21 <alterego> mece: :)
Jun 21 09:41:24 <MohammadAG> grr
Jun 21 09:41:27 <MohammadAG> damn lag
Jun 21 09:41:33 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: You move out of GSM coverage
Jun 21 09:41:36 <mece> alterego, wait actually I did test this on my friends phone.
Jun 21 09:41:38 <mece> anywya
Jun 21 09:41:43 <alterego> Heh,
Jun 21 09:41:45 <mece> MohammadAG, what's lagging?
Jun 21 09:41:47 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, I uploaded the package
Jun 21 09:41:53 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: Or you run 'stop BME' and run the battery below 3v.
Jun 21 09:41:54 <MohammadAG> mece, freenode...
Jun 21 09:41:56 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: i mean withou leaving the celll...
Jun 21 09:42:06 <BCMM> i'll rephrase...
Jun 21 09:42:14 <alterego> mece, all in all it seems to take about 10 seconds to appear on an MSN account
Jun 21 09:42:47 <BCMM> iirc, there is an app to allow you to intentionally disconnect from gsm; like offline mode, but with wlan enabled
Jun 21 09:42:48 <jacekowski> X-Fade: ping
Jun 21 09:42:52 <lcuk> tekojo, longest day of the year, at least unless you go really far north :) hope sun is shining for you today
Jun 21 09:42:54 <alterego> mece: which is better than I'd orignally expected, (it's actually just five, but I added a 5 second debounce period to ignore fast track skipping)
Jun 21 09:42:56 <X-Fade> jacekowski: pong
Jun 21 09:42:57 <BCMM> can anyone recall the name?
Jun 21 09:43:14 <jacekowski> X-Fade: any chance that you could send me working config files for maemo autobuilder?
Jun 21 09:43:16 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/packages/view/cell-modem-ui/ BCMM
Jun 21 09:43:24 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: ?
Jun 21 09:43:34 <X-Fade> jacekowski: the buildme configs?
Jun 21 09:43:36 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, powertop, I built that package not the original maintainer
Jun 21 09:43:41 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 21 09:43:47 <X-Fade> jacekowski: Ehm sbdmock ones?
Jun 21 09:43:51 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, check the deb's control file, I'll see why it shows him as a maintainer
Jun 21 09:43:54 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: thanks
Jun 21 09:43:56 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: I was confused, as it still said original maintainer
Jun 21 09:44:05 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: I mean the one in extras
Jun 21 09:44:06 <jacekowski> X-Fade: yeah, and sbdmock, and wanna-build, and buildd, and sbuild or whatever you are using
Jun 21 09:44:10 <MohammadAG> yeah, I'll have ping X-Fade about it (X-Fade, ping)
Jun 21 09:44:15 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: extras-devel
Jun 21 09:44:33 <MohammadAG> yeah SpeedEvil, check the control file in http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/p/powertop/powertop_1.0_armel.deb
Jun 21 09:44:40 <BCMM> also, is it technically possible to use 3G data while not being connected for the purpose of recieving calls?
Jun 21 09:44:42 <X-Fade> jacekowski: sbdmock is what does the actual build preparations and builds.
Jun 21 09:44:47 <MohammadAG> I think it's because it's an older version, uploading 1.2
Jun 21 09:45:00 <jacekowski> X-Fade: but something manages the queue
Jun 21 09:45:02 <mece> X-Fade, problem sorted, thanks. :)
Jun 21 09:45:13 <jacekowski> X-Fade: and wanna-build seems to just ignore everything
Jun 21 09:45:17 <X-Fade> mece: Yeah, maintenance node issue.
Jun 21 09:45:34 <X-Fade> jacekowski: buildme is what processes the queue.
Jun 21 09:45:35 <tekojo> lcuk: cloudy, but good enough :)
Jun 21 09:45:36 <jacekowski> X-Fade: so copy of configuration files would be nice
Jun 21 09:45:57 <X-Fade> jacekowski: Buildme: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/buildme/?root=extras-cauldron
Jun 21 09:46:10 <MiXu-> BCMM: At least it's possible for the phone to decide not to react to incoming calls.
Jun 21 09:46:12 <jacekowski> hmmm
Jun 21 09:46:27 <jacekowski> X-Fade: still, any chances for sbdmock config?
Jun 21 09:46:27 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: ah
Jun 21 09:46:36 <X-Fade> jacekowski: Yes, moment.
Jun 21 09:46:56 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: /opt/maemo/usr/bin/powertop
Jun 21 09:46:56 <SpeedEvil> Powertop 1.13.3
Jun 21 09:46:57 <SpeedEvil>  - seems not to be older
Jun 21 09:46:57 <X-Fade> jacekowski: Has been posted to the lists a few times, but let me dig the most recent on up ;)
Jun 21 09:47:16 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, older as in package number, my version is 1.0, the uploaded one is 1.13
Jun 21 09:47:20 <SpeedEvil> I see
Jun 21 09:47:38 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: shouldn't matter - the old one was never actually downloadable
Jun 21 09:47:38 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, I should've followed the same versioning scheme, but... too late to do that
Jun 21 09:47:48 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: apt-get install powertop now works.
Jun 21 09:48:04 <MohammadAG> it's non-free, but that's because the "source" is a binary
Jun 21 09:48:20 <mece> Soo, who has an idea why the autobuilder-built wesnoth segfaults while the scratchbox built one works fine?
Jun 21 09:48:38 <MohammadAG> mece, the autobuilder is racist
Jun 21 09:49:02 <mece> MohammadAG, I don't actually think wesnoth has a race, so racism shouldn't affect it..
Jun 21 09:49:13 <MohammadAG> mece, the uploader does
Jun 21 09:49:31 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, do you mind checking out why the maintainer hasn't been replaced here? http://maemo.org/packages/view/powertop/
Jun 21 09:50:18 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: email not set in account?
Jun 21 09:50:30 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, I'm not that much of a noob :)
Jun 21 09:50:47 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, Maintainer: Mohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh <mohammad7410@gmail.com>
Jun 21 09:51:14 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Did you add that email to your profile?
Jun 21 09:51:15 <SpeedEvil> Also - simply as it was a binary on pr1 fs doesn't mean it's redistributable technically
Jun 21 09:51:31 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, yes, I've uploaded packages before
Jun 21 09:51:39 <SpeedEvil> There is no licence attached to the file
Jun 21 09:51:50 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, afaik it's licensed under the GPL license
Jun 21 09:51:50 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Ah, maybe the import hasn't run yet.
Jun 21 09:51:57 <X-Fade> jacekowski: http://maemo.pastebin.com/EGPuVW6G
Jun 21 09:52:03 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, it has, the package was uploaded yesterday :)
Jun 21 09:52:08 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: lesswats.com's powerttop is licenced under the GPL.
Jun 21 09:52:12 <MohammadAG> well, today
Jun 21 09:52:21 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, and can someone change the license?
Jun 21 09:52:22 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: this is not that - it's a complete reimplementation
Jun 21 09:52:27 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Yes, but maintenance node was broken-ish. Has been fixed for not that long.
Jun 21 09:52:34 <MohammadAG> oh, ok
Jun 21 09:52:39 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: Sure - the original author - that we don't know
Jun 21 09:53:04 <SpeedEvil> ~closed
Jun 21 09:53:05 <infobot> [closed] http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages
Jun 21 09:53:06 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, assume it's under the GPL till someone proves otherwise :)
Jun 21 09:53:16 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Ah, there already was a maintainer.
Jun 21 09:53:28 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: It won't ever replace that one then. :)
Jun 21 09:53:48 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: You need to request maintainership.
Jun 21 09:53:48 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, weird, I did it once
Jun 21 09:53:55 <MohammadAG> S
Jun 21 09:53:57 <MohammadAG> er
Jun 21 09:53:59 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Only if none is set.
Jun 21 09:54:03 * timeless_mbp tries to remember how apt works
Jun 21 09:54:03 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, and the package is broken (old one)
Jun 21 09:54:08 * timeless_mbp considers asking a computer
Jun 21 09:54:11 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, super cow powers
Jun 21 09:54:25 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, actually, no, I replaced the maintainer for one package
Jun 21 09:54:26 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: my computer relied on super-copy-on-write powers
Jun 21 09:54:38 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Well, it isn't nice to steal a package. So that is why you need to request maintainer when there is already one set.
Jun 21 09:54:57 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Package as in reserved name space.
Jun 21 09:55:50 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, I know, I was going to request maintainership after I uploaded it, but he just got replaced
Jun 21 09:57:18 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: I seem to be missing the issue, what did you expect and what did actually happen?
Jun 21 09:57:56 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, I expected it to overwrite the previous fields on the packages page, but that isn't the expected result from what it seems.
Jun 21 09:58:15 <timeless_mbp> 3024 i'm stupid
Jun 21 09:58:17 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: No, that would be evil.
Jun 21 09:58:22 * timeless_mbp likes that commit message
Jun 21 09:58:33 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: That way anybody can hijack your package.
Jun 21 09:58:37 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, hey, the importer did it once :P
Jun 21 09:58:50 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Only if there was none set in the interface.
Jun 21 09:58:56 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, there was someone
Jun 21 09:59:03 <MohammadAG> not sure which package it was though
Jun 21 09:59:32 <MohammadAG> can someone do an ls -l in /bin/tar please? I removed the original one
Jun 21 09:59:38 <MohammadAG> on*
Jun 21 10:00:56 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: it's just a symlink to busybox
Jun 21 10:01:41 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, so it's /bin/tar -> /bin/busybox?
Jun 21 10:01:43 <Termana> yello
Jun 21 10:02:01 <MohammadAG> hey Termana
Jun 21 10:02:18 <Arkenoi> wow
Jun 21 10:02:26 <Arkenoi> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7190 <-resolved
Jun 21 10:02:27 <povbot> Bug 7190: music stutters while multi-tasking, especially browsing web
Jun 21 10:03:12 <MohammadAG> wow indeed, This has been fixed in package pulseaudio 0.9.15-1maemo43+0m5
Jun 21 10:03:52 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAGyes
Jun 21 10:04:01 * Arkenoi wonders if it is possible to get it packaged separately from PR.13 or whatever will it be ;-)
Jun 21 10:05:14 <lcuk> Arkenoi, dont sound so shocked that bugs are fixed :)
Jun 21 10:05:28 <alterego> Apparently MS are following in Apple's footprints by releasing a mobile OS withough copy/paste?!
Jun 21 10:05:31 <SpeedEvil> I assume apt-get remove pulseaudio;apt-get install pulseaudio would do nothing?
Jun 21 10:05:56 <Termana> alterego, did you expect any better?
Jun 21 10:06:08 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, it would install the same package you removed
Jun 21 10:06:12 <Termana> This is Apple and Microsoft we are talking about here :P
Jun 21 10:06:18 <alterego> Termana: I expect nothing :P
Jun 21 10:06:19 <SpeedEvil> Thought so.
Jun 21 10:06:25 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, its not in a release yet
Jun 21 10:06:32 <BCMM> alterego: don't worry, I'm sure they'll introduce it later with great fanfare
Jun 21 10:06:48 <BCMM> and use the word "innovation"
Jun 21 10:06:53 <SpeedEvil> In principle - is there anything stopping some person compiling pulse, and jamming it in extras?
Jun 21 10:06:56 <MohammadAG> ln -s /usr/bin/gnu/tar /bin/tar <-- postinst. postrm --> ln -s /bin/tar /bin/busybox
Jun 21 10:07:01 <lcuk> alterego, that means they are on new green code then
Jun 21 10:07:04 <MohammadAG> looks right, right?
Jun 21 10:07:07 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: Yes, me ;)
Jun 21 10:07:09 <lcuk> since they have had c&p for donkeys years
Jun 21 10:07:15 <lcuk> it shows something good
Jun 21 10:07:19 <alterego> So, if I wanted to implement a pay for app, and I was going to implement a registation system to do it. Do you think people would get mad if I used their IMEI to do so? :)
Jun 21 10:07:27 <mece> SpeedEvil, same problem as with other bits that break SSU I suppose.
Jun 21 10:07:34 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 21 10:07:48 <MohammadAG> alterego, why should they
Jun 21 10:07:52 <mece> SpeedEvil, but I'm sure it could be in devel?
Jun 21 10:07:55 <alterego> :)
Jun 21 10:07:57 <SpeedEvil> alterego: I think they have no real case - as long as you've explained it
Jun 21 10:08:06 <alterego> Yeah,
Jun 21 10:08:10 <SpeedEvil> alterego: What do you mean by 'use the IMEI'
Jun 21 10:08:11 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, where would we get the source in the first place
Jun 21 10:08:29 <MohammadAG> IMEI tied with registration server
Jun 21 10:08:36 <alterego> SpeedEvil: as in make the package lock to their IMEI
Jun 21 10:08:51 <SpeedEvil> alterego: Sending the IMEI to you I would be hesitant about
Jun 21 10:08:56 <mece> MohammadAG, apt-get source pulseaudio worked...
Jun 21 10:08:59 <SpeedEvil> as you can do various bad things with IMEI
Jun 21 10:09:06 <alterego> It's just a light idea at the moment.
Jun 21 10:09:13 <MohammadAG> alterego, you do know someone could just fake the IMEI if you're going to use the dbus method
Jun 21 10:09:29 <MohammadAG> mece, for the newest source? (the one that was fixed?)
Jun 21 10:09:41 <mece> MohammadAG, I suppose not.
Jun 21 10:09:45 <alterego> MohammadAG: there are many ways to get around it I'm sure, but your average user isn't going to know.
Jun 21 10:09:47 <mece> MohammadAG, what was fixed?
Jun 21 10:10:01 <MohammadAG> This has been fixed in package pulseaudio 0.9.15-1maemo43+0m5 which is part of the internal build version 2010.24-2
Jun 21 10:10:11 <alterego> anyhow gotta move bbiab
Jun 21 10:10:12 <MohammadAG> bug 7190, as Arkenoi said
Jun 21 10:10:13 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7190 music stutters while multi-tasking, especially browsing web
Jun 21 10:10:43 <jacekowski> X-Fade: python2.6?
Jun 21 10:11:54 <X-Fade> jacekowski: what, where, how?
Jun 21 10:12:29 <jacekowski> X-Fade: are you using python2.6?
Jun 21 10:12:40 <X-Fade> jacekowski: For?
Jun 21 10:12:43 <jacekowski> buildme
Jun 21 10:12:59 <jacekowski> ( on 2.5 it fails on ImportError: No module named json )
Jun 21 10:13:06 <jacekowski> and it looks like it's ok on 2.6
Jun 21 10:13:21 <X-Fade> Yeah, you need json for python.
Jun 21 10:13:44 <X-Fade> But it looks we are using 2.5.
Jun 21 10:15:03 <jacekowski> well, i can't find json package with json that would work
Jun 21 10:15:20 <jacekowski> anyways, 2.6 is working
Jun 21 10:15:45 <X-Fade> jacekowski: ii  python-json                       3.4-2                      a JSON (http://json.org) reader and writer in Python
Jun 21 10:16:50 <mece> MohammadAG, have you checked on gitorious?
Jun 21 10:17:53 <MohammadAG> not really, still looking at the Xarchiver source and the diablo patches
Jun 21 10:20:15 <jacekowski> X-Fade: destinations = ('builder1@corsola.dmz:/home/builder1/', 'builder2@corsola.dmz:/home/builder2/', 'builder3@corsola.dmz:/home/builder3')
Jun 21 10:23:58 <X-Fade> jacekowski: Those are just ssh accounts to your sbdmock machine.
Jun 21 10:24:35 <shorter> trying to get the proxy to work
Jun 21 10:24:38 <shorter> any ideas?
Jun 21 10:24:50 <SpeedEvil> How would I determine if the tag  0.9.15-1maemo43+0m5 is in http://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/pulseaudio/ ?
Jun 21 10:24:52 <shorter> I've tested it on my computer
Jun 21 10:25:00 * SpeedEvil does not understand git
Jun 21 10:25:07 <shorter> is there something I would need enabled in squid to connect with teh n900?
Jun 21 10:25:31 <shorter> in advanced i just have proxyname and port
Jun 21 10:25:44 <haj> uhm.. anyone tried running Warcraft II on their N900.. via Stratagus I guess... ?
Jun 21 10:25:58 <haj> Wargus..
Jun 21 10:26:23 <mece> SpeedEvil, hmm.. It's not sorted like that. latest is 0.9.19-1maemo3 it appears..
Jun 21 10:26:46 <mece> haj, there's a video of it I think, so someone has.
Jun 21 10:26:49 <SpeedEvil> mece: yes -Ican seethemost recent tagstoo
Jun 21 10:27:00 <SpeedEvil> mece: Ormaybe that's all ofthem-andit's simply not there
Jun 21 10:27:20 <mece> holdon
Jun 21 10:27:36 <frals_> SpeedEvil: in sourceree it should show all tags afaik
Jun 21 10:27:54 <frals_> otherwise, clone the repo and git tags should show you all of them ;o
Jun 21 10:28:33 <haj> mece: yah.. I'm just wondering if it works okay to play it... just played through Dune II as House Harkonnen and that worked somewhat okay.. though OpenDune crashes a lot :/
Jun 21 10:28:33 <SpeedEvil> I can clone the repo - but I don't understand what to do from there.
Jun 21 10:28:42 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Jun 21 10:29:20 <mece> SpeedEvil, well one of those commits has the correct version I suppose.
Jun 21 10:29:37 <SpeedEvil> Assuming it's the same repo
Jun 21 10:29:41 <mece> they didn't tag eaarlier than 0.9.18-1maemo1 it appears
Jun 21 10:29:46 <frals_> SpeedEvil: or just do (assuming you have git installed) mkdir pa-git; git clone http://git.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/pulseaudio.git; git tags
Jun 21 10:31:04 <MohammadAG> hmm, so how do I make an app show up in the "open with" dialog
Jun 21 10:31:40 <alterego> MohammadAG: you need to modify the mimetype registry by adding it into your .desktop I think.
Jun 21 10:31:49 <alterego> There's also an app for that :)
Jun 21 10:31:58 <alterego> Which does it "dynamically" :D
Jun 21 10:32:41 <jacekowski> X-Fade: ChangesException: Error: file chromium_5.0.369.2-maemo4.dsc isn't signed
Jun 21 10:32:58 <MohammadAG> MimeType=application/x-arj;application/arj;application/x-bzip;application/x-bzip-compressed-tar alterego it already is defined
Jun 21 10:33:31 <alterego> Hrm ...
Jun 21 10:34:36 <X-Fade> jacekowski: That explains itself? :)
Jun 21 10:35:27 <jacekowski> well, it's same package i was using for maemo builder
Jun 21 10:36:07 <jacekowski> but hmm
Jun 21 10:36:27 <X-Fade> jacekowski: Yes, you should be able to turn that check off.
Jun 21 10:36:34 <mece> SpeedEvil, the changelog jumps from 0.9.15-1maemo32 to 0.9.19-1maemo1, so that particular version, 0.9.15-1maemo43 does not appear to be there.
Jun 21 10:37:02 <alterego> MohammadAG: you might need to exec update-mime-database and not sure if you need to register with tracker w/ tracker-register-mimetype
Jun 21 10:37:09 <mece> SpeedEvil, why not try 0.9.19?
Jun 21 10:37:11 <X-Fade> mece: Might have been an interim nightly build or so.
Jun 21 10:37:18 <MohammadAG> alterego, where are .service files stored?
Jun 21 10:37:21 <jacekowski> X-Fade: i did
Jun 21 10:37:31 <SpeedEvil> mece: Because that would involve thought
Jun 21 10:37:34 <jacekowski> Error: can't copy '/home/maemo/public_html/builder/fremantle/chromium_5.0.369.2-maemo4/sources/chromium_5.0.369.2-maemo4_source.changes' to '/'
Jun 21 10:37:37 <jacekowski> hmm
Jun 21 10:37:38 <jacekowski> that's more fun
Jun 21 10:37:44 <SpeedEvil> mece: It's a perfectly teasonable question though.
Jun 21 10:38:05 <X-Fade> jacekowski: Hehe, don't specify builder home as /
Jun 21 10:38:05 <mece> SpeedEvil, hmm. I'm tempted to build that.
Jun 21 10:38:10 <alterego> MohammadAG: /usr/share/dbus-1/services I believe
Jun 21 10:38:16 <MohammadAG> found it :)
Jun 21 10:38:18 <mece> SpeedEvil, probly depends on some other stuff though..
Jun 21 10:38:21 <SpeedEvil> mece: Basically - I was not assuming that that was the gir repo that the development was being done on - it might have been forked ealier - so that the fix does not appear on that repo
Jun 21 10:38:47 <SpeedEvil> mece: Hence I was lookinf for the same tag name to confirm that
Jun 21 10:38:49 <jacekowski> hmmmmm
Jun 21 10:38:50 <jacekowski> destinations = ('maemo@jacekowski.org:/home/maemo/builds/')
Jun 21 10:38:52 <jacekowski> Error: unknown destination 'm'
Jun 21 10:39:14 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: What are you trying to do? Has the OK been given to put chromium up again?
Jun 21 10:39:33 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: i'm puting it up in my repo
Jun 21 10:39:51 <jacekowski> and because it's in the eu
Jun 21 10:39:55 <jacekowski> i don't have to care
Jun 21 10:40:00 <alterego> :)
Jun 21 10:40:27 <alterego> God bless the EU and their anti-sw-patent ethic :)
Jun 21 10:40:39 <X-Fade> It is a sad story, but we're still working on a solution too btw.
Jun 21 10:40:58 <alterego> Cool
Jun 21 10:41:00 <MohammadAG> Nuke IL -> RESOLVED FIXED
Jun 21 10:41:09 <jaska> \o/
Jun 21 10:41:12 <alterego> Is maemo.org not in the eu? :D
Jun 21 10:41:51 <jacekowski> alterego: nokia is in US as well
Jun 21 10:42:08 <jacekowski> alterego: but i'm only in the eu
Jun 21 10:42:14 <alterego> Oh, right
Jun 21 10:42:18 <alterego> Good point
Jun 21 10:42:22 <jacekowski>     raise Error("Error: unknown destination '%s'" % destination)
Jun 21 10:42:24 * RST38h nukes MohammadAG slowly and painfully, just like if he were debugging him
Jun 21 10:42:30 <shorter> how should i test a 3g proxy on the n900?
Jun 21 10:42:37 <shorter> can't tell if it is connecting or what
Jun 21 10:42:38 <jacekowski> i shouldn't be getting that error unless something is seriously fucked up in my config file
Jun 21 10:42:56 <SpeedEvil> shorter: A 3g proxy?
Jun 21 10:42:58 <MohammadAG> purge and reinstall
Jun 21 10:43:00 <alterego> SpeedEvil: so, it's not actually possible to do what we discussed earlier with the accelerometer?
Jun 21 10:43:19 <SpeedEvil> shorter: you mean a box that you get from your WSP that you pay for, as they are too cheap to build out a proper net?
Jun 21 10:43:28 <jacekowski> hmmmmm
Jun 21 10:43:31 <shorter> not sure
Jun 21 10:43:34 <shorter> it is a squid proxy
Jun 21 10:43:37 <SpeedEvil> alterego: It's possible - but you would need to first fix the kenrel to get it interrupting
Jun 21 10:43:45 <shorter> because they're blocking port 80 on my 3g service
Jun 21 10:43:48 <timeless_mbp> SpeedEvil: did you see the crunchpad article?
Jun 21 10:43:56 <SpeedEvil> timeless_mbp: No.
Jun 21 10:44:11 <SpeedEvil> timeless_mbp: well - I assume not, as I have no recollection of the name crunchpad.
Jun 21 10:44:38 <timeless_mbp> i think i botched the name :)
Jun 21 10:44:50 <timeless_mbp> techcrunch
Jun 21 10:44:57 <timeless_mbp> http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/15/att-microcell-3g-techcrunch/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29
Jun 21 10:45:07 <SpeedEvil> ah - no
Jun 21 10:45:56 <mece> OT but OMG Cthulhu! http://funnycrave.frsucrave.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Chthulu-Cake-ab062110.jpg
Jun 21 10:46:33 <SpeedEvil> timeless_mbp: ah.AtleastintheUK,Idon'tthinktheybotherabout that - thye'll just sell you one
Jun 21 10:47:10 <alterego> I think I've got an abcess
Jun 21 10:47:26 <SpeedEvil> timeless: however - to be fair - many buildings are constructed so they are goo RF shelds, and you'd nver be able to get a signal
Jun 21 10:54:27 <shorter> any idea what I should do in the ip addresses section of the advanced settings in the 3g connection preferences?
Jun 21 10:54:32 <shorter> in order to get a proxy to work?
Jun 21 10:55:28 <shorter> SpeedEvil: and I'm not sure what you mean by the box from my WSP
Jun 21 10:56:06 <SpeedEvil> shorter: I mean a 3G proxy, like the one timeless_mbp linked to
Jun 21 10:57:06 <shorter> ah, yeah i mean an actual squid server
Jun 21 10:57:25 <achipa> fun-tastic, a FN document is missing and suggest to report the 404 on a page that is... 404 itself
Jun 21 10:57:33 <SpeedEvil> shorter: I'm not sure that'd work
Jun 21 10:57:52 <SpeedEvil> shorter: I've never investigated proxysettings. I know others have had problems.
Jun 21 11:07:47 <jacekowski> hmmmm
Jun 21 11:07:48 <jacekowski> Error occured: Failed to select target maemo5-arm-dba73629df2ffe48249c7bfed488a60535e1a66e, exiting
Jun 21 11:07:54 <jacekowski> in sbdmock
Jun 21 11:09:17 <X-Fade> jacekowski: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/horizontal-call_0.6-1/armel.root.log.OK.txt
Jun 21 11:09:29 <X-Fade> jacekowski: There you can see what steps it should do.
Jun 21 11:10:03 <X-Fade> jacekowski: I guess you created the scratchbox users?
Jun 21 11:10:10 <jacekowski> yes
Jun 21 11:10:17 <jacekowski> what scratchbox version are you using?
Jun 21 11:14:28 <plastun> how to temporary disable search in TouxhSelector when pressing hardware key?
Jun 21 11:16:06 <th3hate> Nokia N8: http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7352/47627289.jpg
Jun 21 11:16:09 <th3hate> just for the lulz
Jun 21 11:17:09 <jacekowski> i think it's working
Jun 21 11:18:34 <alterego> So what repo is gnu screen in?!?!?!?!?!? :D
Jun 21 11:18:42 <tybollt> )#¤%)#()%(!)(%)"#
Jun 21 11:19:07 <MohammadAG> alterego, gnu screen?
Jun 21 11:19:36 <alterego> It's a UNIX app, really cool :) Like VNC for the command line people usually say.
Jun 21 11:19:43 <Ikarus> th3hate: wouldn't happen on the N900, it would just swap trash like hell :P
Jun 21 11:19:49 <joga> screen is THE most useful single program I think
Jun 21 11:19:57 <tybollt> tmux > screen
Jun 21 11:20:31 <th3hate> another pic for the lulz: http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8840/50142675.jpg
Jun 21 11:20:32 <th3hate> :D
Jun 21 11:20:51 <th3hate> symbian will stay symbian no matter what they did
Jun 21 11:20:56 <joga> tybollt: what does tmux actually do better in practice? I glanced at it briefly (and the other alternative whose name can never be remembered) but didn't see anything worth learning
Jun 21 11:21:24 <joga> (I think it used ctrl-b for the command key? or maybe it was the other one)
Jun 21 11:21:36 <joga> of course you can change that, but well :)
Jun 21 11:22:29 <joga> oh hey now I remember, it was "byobu". just as ingenius a name for a terminal multiplexer as baobab is for a disk usage analyzer
Jun 21 11:22:53 <joga> though baobab is from little prince, I hear
Jun 21 11:25:23 <tybollt> joga: Tmux is actively maintained - in fact it is so actively maintained most bug fixes are done w/in an hour or two
Jun 21 11:25:46 <joga> tybollt, I've yet to find a bug in screen :)
Jun 21 11:25:54 <tybollt> ...
Jun 21 11:26:09 <joga> (seriously, I can't think of a single one)
Jun 21 11:26:29 <joga> maybe I've just so accustomed to it I don't notice anymore, but I dunno
Jun 21 11:26:33 <tybollt> seriously it's a bikeshed
Jun 21 11:26:35 <joga> *I'm
Jun 21 11:26:38 <tybollt> screen is good for you
Jun 21 11:27:22 <joga> can you name some bug or misfeature in it so I could at least tell my users why I installed several multiplexers for them without telling why they're better? ;)
Jun 21 11:28:26 <tybollt> well it crashed for me at an inconvenient time
Jun 21 11:28:40 <tybollt> that there *points* bug that made it crash :)
Jun 21 11:28:45 <joga> are you sure it crashed and it wasn't the xon/xoff thing for example?
Jun 21 11:28:52 <joga> ok :)
Jun 21 11:28:59 <alterego> Heh
Jun 21 11:29:10 <tybollt> as I said it's a bikeshed - screen is probably good enough for you
Jun 21 11:30:12 <joga> tybollt, I was just interested in what makes tmux et al superior in practice. I use screen massively and it has never failed me. I don't mean to bash the alternatives. what is screen not good enough for?
Jun 21 11:31:43 <zash> tmux has built in tiling wm?
Jun 21 11:31:45 <zash> wooot
Jun 21 11:31:56 <joga> I trust ion3 to do that for me
Jun 21 11:32:14 <zash> screen just has oneway split afaik
Jun 21 11:32:27 <joga> yeah, that's one. screen does have crappy window tiling
Jun 21 11:32:47 <joga> I don't need that, though, because I look at one window at a time in a single wm frame anyway
Jun 21 11:33:00 <zash> there's also dtach which does *only* the detaching/reattaching part
Jun 21 11:33:43 <joga> I tried to use split windows but it just made using screen a bit more error prone, so I don't do that anymore
Jun 21 11:34:06 * pahartik tries to get "aiccu_20070115-9-maemo1_armel.deb" installed but "dpkg: error processing aiccu (--install): subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2"
Jun 21 11:34:37 <tybollt> the biggest thing with tmux is it is free
Jun 21 11:34:42 <joga> this is byobu but when I tried it, to me it just looked like a bunch of confusing candy http://people.canonical.com/~kirkland/Screenshot-ec2-cost.png
Jun 21 11:34:58 <alterego> I'm not into split windows + screen, not why I use it. Screen + emacs ftw though :)
Jun 21 11:35:07 <tybollt> screen still has that ugly GPL thing
Jun 21 11:35:11 <alterego> It's almost like they were built for each other :D
Jun 21 11:35:29 <joga> tybollt, ok...but is there some big difference in actual functionality?
Jun 21 11:35:39 <joga> like, some cool feature you use every day
Jun 21 11:35:42 <tybollt> yes there are
Jun 21 11:35:50 <petteri> screen rules, don't see any reason from moving to alternatives
Jun 21 11:35:57 <korhojoa> i liek screen
Jun 21 11:36:03 <tybollt> liek
Jun 21 11:36:11 <joga> I'd like to know some of the reasons before considering it seriously :)
Jun 21 11:36:31 <joga> I've used screen daily for I dunno...7 years at least
Jun 21 11:36:34 <alterego> Anyhow, this is a wonderful discussion and all, but where the hell is screen for maemo :P
Jun 21 11:36:44 <joga> alterego: oh, it's there, in Extras or -testing
Jun 21 11:37:01 <joga> I've it installed at least, and those repos enabled :)
Jun 21 11:37:28 <alterego> hrm, I get package reference errors.
Jun 21 11:44:03 <joga> I wish someone less lazy than me would write some config for tmux so window handling works identically to ion :)
Jun 21 11:44:57 <alterego> Ah it's in the "maemo tools' repository
Jun 21 11:45:03 <joga> oh
Jun 21 11:45:08 <joga> sorry :)
Jun 21 11:50:27 <TomaszD> Stskeeps, ping
Jun 21 11:57:38 <Stskeeps> TomaszD: pong
Jun 21 11:57:58 <TomaszD> Stskeeps, hey. What's new in Maemo land?
Jun 21 11:59:08 <Stskeeps> TomaszD: well, maemo.org is self-destructing itself, handset UX should come out this month of meego and i plan on ignoring the internet for a week starting saturday :)
Jun 21 11:59:39 <tybollt> oh?
Jun 21 11:59:49 <tybollt> the xterm wasn't it then? >:P
Jun 21 11:59:50 <TomaszD> ah, so everything is normal
Jun 21 11:59:53 <lcuk> maemo.org would be less self destructing if people would stop saying such.  people are looking at hildon on meego
Jun 21 12:00:17 <pyther> Neweeg dropped the N900 by $10 today
Jun 21 12:00:20 <Stskeeps> tybollt: no, emacs is the new UX
Jun 21 12:00:37 <Stskeeps> lcuk: i actually did port hildon to stock gtk, let's see what people do with it
Jun 21 12:00:39 <tybollt> Stskeeps: Gee, no need to scare us like that ;)
Jun 21 12:00:42 <TomaszD> I still haven't given up on the FR Stskeeps  :)
Jun 21 12:01:08 <lcuk> sure Stskeeps its just difficult to get people going on meego because of all the smoke and mirrors
Jun 21 12:01:16 <tybollt> Stskeeps: is hildon to be converted to QT somehow or will the QT GUI be a completely new thing?
Jun 21 12:01:44 <Stskeeps> tybollt: it's difficult to move a gobject based framework to be using a qt base instead of gtk, i'd say
Jun 21 12:02:01 <lcuk> tybollt, there are similar qildon type packages available but people are aiming to get gtk hildon on the meego base
Jun 21 12:02:05 <tybollt> Stskeeps: '
Jun 21 12:02:10 <tybollt> Stskeeps: 'look 'n feel'
Jun 21 12:02:25 <Stskeeps> tybollt: people are quite good with theming, they'll figure something out
Jun 21 12:02:47 <tybollt> I take that as a no
Jun 21 12:02:59 * Stskeeps doesn't do gtk, but others might
Jun 21 12:03:27 <TomaszD> Stskeeps, qtmoko has insanely cool fullscreen handwriting recognition that actually works
Jun 21 12:03:28 <lcuk> plenty of people do :p
Jun 21 12:03:37 <Stskeeps> TomaszD: scary, cellwriter or?
Jun 21 12:03:49 <TomaszD> no, Qt embedded
Jun 21 12:03:55 <Stskeeps> ah
Jun 21 12:04:09 <TomaszD> something they eventually gave up on
Jun 21 12:04:21 <TomaszD> but hey, it works well, the whole shebang on the FR works well
Jun 21 12:04:22 <lcuk> thats ok - the code should be recompilable
Jun 21 12:05:08 <tybollt> Stskeeps: could you be a little less smoke and mirrors, yeah? :)
Jun 21 12:05:19 <Stskeeps> tybollt: i'm not the one making smoke and mirrors
Jun 21 12:05:20 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 21 12:05:39 <Stskeeps> i will be smoking quite a fair bit in a week though, but no mirrors involved.
Jun 21 12:05:40 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 21 12:06:15 * tybollt reckon Stskeeps is fairly well aware of the boundaires of NDA's :)
Jun 21 12:06:16 <lcuk> where you heading to Stskeeps
Jun 21 12:06:27 <tybollt> lala-land? :)
Jun 21 12:06:46 <lcuk> well its either freetown or amsterdam lol
Jun 21 12:07:08 <Stskeeps> lcuk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskilde_Festival
Jun 21 12:08:02 <lcuk> kickass Stskeeps \o/
Jun 21 12:08:08 <mece> Thanks for the bugreport. Much appreciated SpeedEvil
Jun 21 12:10:59 <TomaszD> Stskeeps, Qt Extended, not embedded
Jun 21 12:11:10 <TomaszD> 4.4.3, after which it got cancelled
Jun 21 12:11:16 <lcuk> Stskeeps, you around for guadec - perhaps we can see about some extra gtk hands :)
Jun 21 12:12:07 <Stskeeps> lcuk: probably not, but maybe someone can do a BoF on the work
Jun 21 12:15:54 <MohammadAG> * eitama has quit (Excess Flood) <-- I guess freenode changed the limit
Jun 21 12:16:10 <SpeedEvil> mece: Err?
Jun 21 12:16:13 <SpeedEvil> mece: Oh
Jun 21 12:17:59 <mece> SpeedEvil, did you notice how, if it is checked, then unchecking can be done by clicking on the place where it didn't work to check it?
Jun 21 12:18:25 <SpeedEvil> diddn'tnoticethat,no
Jun 21 12:18:45 <SpeedEvil> I was just running through a list of 10 apps checking for obvious stuff.
Jun 21 12:22:40 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: My landlord got mail from Helsinki for me
Jun 21 12:22:53 <pupnik_> what about
Jun 21 12:23:40 <DocScrutinizer> no idea, have to pick it up at him
Jun 21 12:23:54 <Ikarus> from HEL, why on earth
Jun 21 12:25:17 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: probably a cease and desist ;p
Jun 21 12:25:19 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: did you by any change apply on the maemo developer device queue ?
Jun 21 12:25:38 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: lol, yeah
Jun 21 12:25:55 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: maybe
Jun 21 12:26:26 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: I'm a bit indecisive today... Or maybe not... :D
Jun 21 12:27:22 <X-Fade> Hmm nice power outage on my irc host.
Jun 21 12:27:46 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: I thought your question was implying the answer you could easly get from a /whois and a browser click to the related wikipage
Jun 21 12:28:13 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: ouch
Jun 21 12:28:26 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog
Jun 21 12:28:31 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Jun 21 12:28:55 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: Yeah, no problem. Just annoying. Or nice and quiet, depends on how you look at it.
Jun 21 12:29:04 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
Jun 21 12:29:17 <pupnik_> hahahah
Jun 21 12:29:27 <DocScrutinizer> I enyoied the hour silence yesterday, when crashy kicked me
Jun 21 12:29:35 <DocScrutinizer> enjoyed
Jun 21 12:29:35 <achipa> X-Fade: no, the cannot-be-killed-frenzy-packages are annonying. It's definitely nice and quiet
Jun 21 12:30:10 <X-Fade> achipa: Yeah, nice race condition.
Jun 21 12:30:13 <achipa> but my net is kooky, too, that's why I don't click around much... took well over a minute to log in to amazon aws...
Jun 21 12:31:13 <achipa> X-Fade: hey, the soccer part is still there, proud and zombie ! :)
Jun 21 12:31:28 <DocScrutinizer> hehehe
Jun 21 12:31:49 <X-Fade> achipa: Yeah, well actual file is gone now. It is just that the non-free Packages file needs to be re-generated.
Jun 21 12:31:49 <DocScrutinizer> soccer will live on forever
Jun 21 12:32:08 <achipa> X-Fade: ah, so THAT's why appwatch is crashing ;)
Jun 21 12:32:09 <X-Fade> achipa: Which typically happens when someone promotes a non-free app to testing, which is not often ;)
Jun 21 12:33:04 <X-Fade> achipa: So I have 2 options, spend quite some time to fix it. Or *shrug* and delete again in the interface in a few days ;)
Jun 21 12:33:46 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, pong?
Jun 21 12:33:59 * achipa envisions X-Fade doing tick-class shrugging all day long
Jun 21 12:34:38 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: so after thinking thoroughly about it why I said "maybe", I came to the conclusion it's been the correct answer as I dunno what's in the package (or maybe it's even a letter)
Jun 21 12:35:41 <DocScrutinizer> so, "yes, maybe it's related to my application for a devel dev"
Jun 21 12:36:22 <DocScrutinizer> mooo GeneralAntilles :-)
Jun 21 12:36:55 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer, howdy.
Jun 21 12:37:16 <DocScrutinizer> fine, seen my ping to GAN900 ?
Jun 21 12:37:28 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer, just now, yes, get it yet?
Jun 21 12:37:50 <DocScrutinizer> have to wait til landlord is back again
Jun 21 12:38:26 <DocScrutinizer> just got an email announcing 'mail from HEL'
Jun 21 12:38:56 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, love it, Moto's beat Nokia to market with the Droid 2 with OMAP3630
Jun 21 12:39:05 <GeneralAntilles> Apple's got a Cortex A9 blowing EVERYBODY away
Jun 21 12:39:14 <GeneralAntilles> and Nokia's still shipping an ARM11 as their flagship. . . .
Jun 21 12:39:27 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Is that really an A9?
Jun 21 12:39:29 <DocScrutinizer> It's NOT a flagship :-P
Jun 21 12:40:16 <DocScrutinizer> honestly I don't give a damn shit
Jun 21 12:40:45 * X-Fade wants more RAM more badly than a faster cpu.
Jun 21 12:40:58 <DocScrutinizer> the OMAP3430 is fast enough for all I want to do on a mobile
Jun 21 12:40:58 <sx0n> iirc it's not a9
Jun 21 12:41:15 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: ack
Jun 21 12:41:16 * RST38h yawns at the upcoming Apocalypsis for the Nokia
Jun 21 12:41:36 <DocScrutinizer> bah, then we buy it for cheap money
Jun 21 12:41:37 <X-Fade> N900 would be a lot more snappy when it had 512 or more.
Jun 21 12:41:46 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Jun 21 12:41:58 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: again ack
Jun 21 12:42:10 <lcuk> werent you all saying the same about 810 -> 900 ?
Jun 21 12:42:11 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, A4, so, yeah, I believe so.
Jun 21 12:42:18 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: How are your soldering skills.
Jun 21 12:42:22 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: That is A8?
Jun 21 12:42:30 * lcuk thinks 810 is enough grunt, the 900 is relaxing
Jun 21 12:42:33 <GeneralAntilles> A4 is the same thing as in the iPad.
Jun 21 12:42:33 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, not THAT good
Jun 21 12:42:55 * RST38h thinks N900 is slow like hell, but the CPU is not to blame for that
Jun 21 12:43:01 <GeneralAntilles> Wait, is the A4 an A8?
Jun 21 12:43:09 <RST38h> yes it is
Jun 21 12:43:12 <achipa> GeneralAntilles: pretty much
Jun 21 12:43:15 <MohammadAG> isn't the iPhone using an A4?
Jun 21 12:43:17 <sx0n> n900 is quite snappy with oc kernel.
Jun 21 12:43:18 <GeneralAntilles> Aha, interesting.
Jun 21 12:43:18 <X-Fade> In the Agenda VR3, people piggybacked additional ram chips on top of each other ;)
Jun 21 12:43:23 <MohammadAG> and 512MB RAM
Jun 21 12:43:24 * GeneralAntilles has been mislead for a while now.
Jun 21 12:43:27 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: In the n900 too
Jun 21 12:43:34 <DocScrutinizer> yeah ARM numbering is confusing like hell
Jun 21 12:43:57 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer, nah, it's not that. Stupid "journalists" are idiots.
Jun 21 12:44:27 <tybollt> gan: this is the age of the intarwebz - everyone can be a "journalist" now... :-|
Jun 21 12:44:37 <tybollt> anyone, too
Jun 21 12:44:39 <achipa> GeneralAntilles: http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=225700447
Jun 21 12:45:17 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: (piggyback) That's how the OMAP SoC is built
Jun 21 12:46:43 <sx0n> it stills generates lot of heat though.
Jun 21 12:47:38 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: that's why the worlbest soldering skills won't suffice to push up the RAM in N900. You can't reach the soldering spots to contact the membus
Jun 21 12:47:50 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: Yeah, I know.
Jun 21 12:48:31 <DocScrutinizer> you *could* swap the SoC for a variant with 512MB RAM piggybacked to the core
Jun 21 12:49:00 <DocScrutinizer> if you find a pincompatible variant
Jun 21 12:49:15 <X-Fade> And are good at bga soldering ;)
Jun 21 12:49:26 <DocScrutinizer> of course
Jun 21 12:49:53 <alterego> How about quicker swap?
Jun 21 12:49:54 <DocScrutinizer> I'd bet for a yield < 1 out of 10
Jun 21 12:50:02 <E0x> good morning
Jun 21 12:50:19 <alterego> It'd be easier to hack some faster storage I would have thought
Jun 21 12:50:47 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: would mean swapping the eMMC. Could earn you a few percent I guess. Not more
Jun 21 12:51:15 <X-Fade> Preventing swapping would help more.
Jun 21 12:51:21 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Jun 21 12:51:46 <X-Fade> Preloading all these apps doesn't help when you don't use them often.
Jun 21 12:51:48 * achipa wonders if swapping to a zippy external card would help, like on the N810
Jun 21 12:51:51 <DocScrutinizer> overclocking !!! :-P
Jun 21 12:52:05 <X-Fade> I've been wanting to test with disabling most preloaded apps.
Jun 21 12:52:14 <X-Fade> Or prestarted rather.
Jun 21 12:52:50 <alterego> Can we sort downloads on maemo.org site by download count? would be handy to know the most popular for QA testing ...
Jun 21 12:52:56 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: really interesting topic. I thought about same
Jun 21 12:53:07 <X-Fade> alterego: /downloads/
Jun 21 12:53:30 <X-Fade> alterego: instead of /updated/ for instance.
Jun 21 12:53:56 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil elaborated on this several times now
Jun 21 12:54:40 <DocScrutinizer> in ML, and maybe even in tmo. Here even more often then there
Jun 21 12:55:21 <SpComb> is it possible to do i386 builds of packages that use libqtm in extras-devel?
Jun 21 12:55:23 <DocScrutinizer> there's even scripts to do some sum up
Jun 21 12:55:48 <SpComb> the autobuilder seems to trip over on installing libqtm-dev as part of the Build-Depends
Jun 21 12:56:26 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: url?
Jun 21 12:56:28 <SpComb> i.e. armel build runs fine, but i386 build fails
Jun 21 12:56:34 <X-Fade> SpComb: ^^
Jun 21 12:56:51 <SpComb> e.g. https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/wordpress_0.6.97/
Jun 21 12:58:03 <SpComb> doesn't seem like it's the only package with the same issue either
Jun 21 12:58:19 <X-Fade> SpComb: Checking..
Jun 21 13:00:22 <SpComb> https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-June/023952.html <-- 0.6.97-2 with only the armel arch built fine
Jun 21 13:04:46 <jacekowski> X-Fade: going back to my builder
Jun 21 13:05:14 <jacekowski> X-Fade: i think my sources.list is little bit incorrect
Jun 21 13:08:10 <jacekowski> well, not sources.list but config_opts['sources.list']
Jun 21 13:08:37 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/how_many_times_each_application_is_downloaded_from_extras-devel/
Jun 21 13:09:29 <X-Fade> jacekowski: Just start with """ and end with """
Jun 21 13:09:53 <X-Fade> jacekowski: And have your regular sources.list stuff in there.
Jun 21 13:09:55 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, when does the importer run again?
Jun 21 13:09:59 <jacekowski> X-Fade: well, content is incorrect
Jun 21 13:10:30 <X-Fade> jacekowski: We have local repos, but you can just point to repository.m.o?
Jun 21 13:10:31 <jacekowski> i can't pull whole nokia-binaries repository easily unfortunatelly
Jun 21 13:10:49 <jacekowski> so well, i'll have to point it to r.m.o
Jun 21 13:10:53 <X-Fade> jacekowski: You don't need to.
Jun 21 13:11:18 <X-Fade> jacekowski: As you can just add the one from scratchbox with your eula key?
Jun 21 13:11:58 <X-Fade> jacekowski: I just don't add the live one as to not expose the key etc.
Jun 21 13:12:14 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: It is back to normal for a while now.
Jun 21 13:12:21 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: yes?
Jun 21 13:12:40 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, :05 and :35 right?
Jun 21 13:12:57 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: ish, yes.
Jun 21 13:13:04 <jacekowski> btw. is it fremantle or fremantle1.2 now?
Jun 21 13:13:07 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: I assumed your query was about DocScrutinizers mention of my posts to the ml - post is at the end of that thread
Jun 21 13:13:41 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: I have the separate data for every file in every repo.
Jun 21 13:14:00 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: basically around the issue that there is only one global downloads counter - or at least ones that are known of - that counts everything
Jun 21 13:14:36 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: I've said multiple times that the counter adds up all repos ;)
Jun 21 13:14:46 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: As that is only fair.
Jun 21 13:14:51 <SpeedEvil> Indeed. Is that available seperately?
Jun 21 13:15:04 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: Someone who has the app installed from -devel won't install it from Extras.
Jun 21 13:15:39 <SpeedEvil> Sure. But being able to work out what proportion of users have the app installed from extras-devel/testing/extras has not got no value.
Jun 21 13:16:26 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: It has anecdotal value, but really..
Jun 21 13:16:48 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Was just going to ask if you had any time to flesh out the issue; but it's gone now :)
Jun 21 13:18:00 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: the raw number of downloads is almost worthless
Jun 21 13:18:03 <GAN900> Jaffa, yeah, I was long abed at that point.
Jun 21 13:18:06 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: Indeed - that's a slightly debatable value - the real interesting bit would be it would help to pull apart the number of users with an app installed.
Jun 21 13:18:31 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: But why would you really want to know that? :)
Jun 21 13:18:32 <balor> Is gstreamer-plugins-flac available for OS2008/N810?
Jun 21 13:18:36 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: Consider an app with 5 releases. The total of downloads is 130000
Jun 21 13:18:41 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: What would you do with the data.
Jun 21 13:18:49 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: You want to know the number of users
Jun 21 13:19:09 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: How do you do this? Other than attempting to integrate the downloads per day graph.
Jun 21 13:19:15 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: There is no real way of knowing that as we don't know if it is a clean install or an upgrade.
Jun 21 13:19:22 <SpeedEvil> Of course not.
Jun 21 13:19:32 <X-Fade> So everything you do is just useless ;)
Jun 21 13:19:56 <X-Fade> Well there is lies and there are statistics ;)
Jun 21 13:19:58 <SpeedEvil> But 'version x.y was downloaded 1000 times from extras, 800 times from extras-devel' is a pretty close proxy for the number of users.
Jun 21 13:20:07 <DocScrutinizer> o arguably the whole number wanking is useless then
Jun 21 13:20:26 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: I really think we should put our effort somewhere else.
Jun 21 13:20:42 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: Graph is nice to look at, but really nothing more.
Jun 21 13:20:45 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: Indeed - I'm not arguing on spending any major effor whatsoever.
Jun 21 13:21:00 <SpeedEvil> I'm wondering if the files would be easy to make accessible - or not.
Jun 21 13:21:10 <SpeedEvil> If not - then I completely agree it is not worth it
Jun 21 13:21:20 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: Splitting this out and providing proper analysis is a ton of work.
Jun 21 13:21:25 <vldcnst> Coffee anyone?
Jun 21 13:21:33 <DocScrutinizer> here please
Jun 21 13:21:36 <X-Fade> I'd rather get OBS in place in the same amount of time.
Jun 21 13:21:52 <X-Fade> Or another usefull feature which benefits most people.
Jun 21 13:22:09 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: Ok - I was more meaning raw logs for people to parse. If they're not available, I quite agree.
Jun 21 13:22:58 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: devent numbers for devels of commercial sw to rely on, that *is* something every user benefits from in long term
Jun 21 13:23:05 <DocScrutinizer> decent even
Jun 21 13:23:29 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: Yes, but there is not much of a long term.
Jun 21 13:23:41 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Jun 21 13:24:00 <X-Fade> Our time is limited and in the meego scope everything changes radically.
Jun 21 13:24:06 <RST38h> The Telegraph has today answered those most pressing questions of the age: just what does Kim Jong-Il inspecting a radish look like, and when he inspects a radish, what conclusion can be drawn from the encounter?
Jun 21 13:25:25 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: And besides, I'm pretty sure the way we measure things now is how every store shows their data.
Jun 21 13:26:55 <aboyer_> has anyone used the texture streaming module (bc_cat) from TI to perform texture streaming on the N900? I've managed to compile the kernel module but when using it, it crashes the device...
Jun 21 13:27:32 <eitama> X-Fade, Got 3 minutes for a question about the auto-builder?
Jun 21 13:28:37 <toggles_w> anyone have any sort of guess as to what sort of % of people here are running at 900mhz?
Jun 21 13:28:50 <Appiah> 900? all the time?
Jun 21 13:28:56 <vldcnst> Under 5%, I'd say.
Jun 21 13:29:09 <toggles_w> thanks.. any failures?
Jun 21 13:29:18 <X-Fade> eitama: sure
Jun 21 13:29:23 <eitama> I ran at 900 for 1 month
Jun 21 13:29:29 <eitama> then i moved to 1000 (:
Jun 21 13:29:35 <eitama> been using 1000 since then
Jun 21 13:29:37 <eitama> flawlessly
Jun 21 13:29:46 <vldcnst> Yet...
Jun 21 13:29:52 <eitama> X-Fade: I just uploaded a package to extras-devel
Jun 21 13:29:57 <eitama> it's written in Qt
Jun 21 13:30:02 <eitama> and uses dbus
Jun 21 13:30:09 <timeless_mbp> toggles_w: there have been oil wells operating in the Gulf of Mexico for years
Jun 21 13:30:19 <eitama> to make it build, i had to add /usr/include something
Jun 21 13:30:20 <timeless_mbp> with 0 failures through 2009, [hypothetically]
Jun 21 13:30:20 <toggles_w> lol
Jun 21 13:30:22 <eitama> to the pro file
Jun 21 13:30:31 <SpeedEvil> timeless_mbp: err - no
Jun 21 13:30:32 <timeless_mbp> toggles_w: thus, it was absolutely safe to run an oil well in 2010
Jun 21 13:30:34 <eitama> I didn't have to do that same for QContacts
Jun 21 13:30:40 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: you just voided any possible ticket about app instabilities or erratic behaviour of the whole OS
Jun 21 13:31:08 <eitama> Hmmm
Jun 21 13:31:10 <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I_oil_spill timeless_mbp
Jun 21 13:31:12 <timeless_mbp> SpeedEvil: the point stands even if the example is inaccurate
Jun 21 13:31:17 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: what exactly do you mean I voided?
Jun 21 13:31:18 <toggles_w> eitama: thanks
Jun 21 13:31:20 <SpeedEvil> ah - missed that
Jun 21 13:32:05 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: you mean my warrenty?
Jun 21 13:32:06 <jacekowski> X-Fade: you are running buildme from cron?
Jun 21 13:32:07 <SpeedEvil> eitama: I think DocScrutinizer got you mixed up with overclocker guy
Jun 21 13:32:10 <timeless_mbp> SpeedEvil: we can change my example to say 'BP has operated' :)
Jun 21 13:32:11 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: I mean "don't come here whining about any problem with your apps or OS or device in general" and also I'll add that to any ticket opened by you
Jun 21 13:32:17 <X-Fade> jacekowski: yes
Jun 21 13:32:20 <jacekowski> X-Fade: or some inotify based thingy?
Jun 21 13:32:21 <SpeedEvil> oops
Jun 21 13:32:23 <SpeedEvil> ignore me
Jun 21 13:32:25 <SpeedEvil> (about that)
Jun 21 13:32:35 <vldcnst> brain lag again!
Jun 21 13:32:47 <X-Fade> jacekowski: Cron, was working on inotify but that got delayed by my OBS work.
Jun 21 13:33:01 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, ping
Jun 21 13:33:06 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: do you mean like, don't come asking for help at a nokia service point? or at TMO?
Jun 21 13:33:18 <DocScrutinizer> anywhere
Jun 21 13:33:20 <timeless_mbp> pong
Jun 21 13:33:31 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: What do you mean "i'll add that to any ticket opened by you?"
Jun 21 13:33:33 <DocScrutinizer> your device will start to randomly fail in weird manner
Jun 21 13:33:44 <eitama> almost sounds like a threat
Jun 21 13:34:21 <eitama> I really don't understand what you want, please be more precise
Jun 21 13:34:29 <timeless_mbp> eitama: if you take a device and give it water damage
Jun 21 13:34:38 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: "comment #2 by joerg: This ticket is based on a device known to be overclocked to 1000 for extended periods. I suggest close as INVALID"
Jun 21 13:34:40 <timeless_mbp> and then come to me and say "i'm having trouble w/ the usb port"
Jun 21 13:34:54 <toggles_w> timeless_mbp: did that, put mine in the washing machine, still runs, tought little bugger
Jun 21 13:35:13 <timeless_mbp> toggles_w: i'm pretty sure you'll find that the user guide says not to do that
Jun 21 13:35:25 <eitama> Lets go back to point zero.
Jun 21 13:35:28 <eitama> I opened mirc
Jun 21 13:35:33 <toggles_w> yeah, took three days to dry out and about a month for the notification light to stop glowing
Jun 21 13:35:38 <eitama> saw someone ask how many people are running @ 900
Jun 21 13:35:45 <eitama> and he also asked if there are any flaws
Jun 21 13:35:50 <eitama> is that correct so far?
Jun 21 13:35:56 <toggles_w> yup, was me
Jun 21 13:36:01 <eitama> so i pointed
Jun 21 13:36:03 <eitama> that personnaly
Jun 21 13:36:07 <eitama> I am running at 1000
Jun 21 13:36:10 <eitama> and was running @ 900
Jun 21 13:36:14 <eitama> and i have no problems
Jun 21 13:36:19 <eitama> I'd like to know
Jun 21 13:36:23 <DocScrutinizer> but you WILL have
Jun 21 13:36:25 <eitama> whats wrong with what I did - lol
Jun 21 13:36:31 <timeless_mbp> eitama: our point is that you're probably voiding the warranty
Jun 21 13:36:38 <eitama> I don't have warrenty anyway
Jun 21 13:36:39 <toggles_w> not probably
Jun 21 13:36:40 <timeless_mbp> so when you later come to a bug tracker and report a problem
Jun 21 13:36:57 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: "comment #2 by joerg: This ticket is based on a device known to be overclocked to 1000 for extended periods. I suggest close as INVALID"
Jun 21 13:37:14 <eitama> Oh
Jun 21 13:37:30 <eitama> so you mean that I shouldn't open the bugs.maemo.org anymore cause I overclock my phone?
Jun 21 13:37:49 <timeless_mbp> you shouldn't complain about anything *anywhere*
Jun 21 13:37:54 <pupnik_> haha
Jun 21 13:37:59 <eitama> lol
Jun 21 13:38:01 <eitama> you kids
Jun 21 13:38:05 <timeless_mbp> sorry
Jun 21 13:38:07 <DocScrutinizer> you are on your own, as you damaged the device intentionally
Jun 21 13:38:10 <X-Fade> eitama: reproducing bugs might be a lot harder when devices are not the same.
Jun 21 13:38:13 <timeless_mbp> i have a hard enough time dealing with normal users
Jun 21 13:38:22 <tybollt> does my phonecall end faster if I overclock?
Jun 21 13:38:23 <tybollt> :D
Jun 21 13:38:25 <timeless_mbp> people who intentionally damage their device do not have any right to my time
Jun 21 13:38:47 <DocScrutinizer> tybollt: basically yes
Jun 21 13:38:52 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: :D
Jun 21 13:38:56 <timeless_mbp> and should do me and the community the courtesy of not trying to spend it
Jun 21 13:39:04 <MohammadAG> tybollt, and the guy on the other side of the phone might implode
Jun 21 13:39:15 <lcuk> eitama, you can open it, you can even file bugs, but when people ask if theres anything special about your phone they may not be as willing to spend time diagnosing the problem because it could be induced by out of spec hardware
Jun 21 13:39:16 <vldcnst> einval: IIRC, the stock 600MHz is already overclocked. Clocking it beyond that will damage it in time more than you'd guess. It's a sensible chip with poor heat disspiation, and it was not designed to run at those frequencies.
Jun 21 13:39:33 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: we need to have dynamic overclocking so you can link it to when mum calls or whatever :)
Jun 21 13:39:58 <MohammadAG> vldcnst, afaik the 600MHz clock speed is default
Jun 21 13:40:20 <vldcnst> MohammadAG: I read that somewhere, I don't know exactly where tho. something about 550mhz, was in a pif.
Jun 21 13:40:22 <vldcnst> pdf*
Jun 21 13:40:46 <MohammadAG> not sure, *pings DocScrutinizer*
Jun 21 13:40:56 <eitama> DocScrutinizer
Jun 21 13:41:22 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: vldcnst: and the chip literally wears out, so you not having problems now doesn't mean you won't have any tomorrow
Jun 21 13:42:15 <DocScrutinizer> 600 is temporary max clock speed which the system tries to keep as short as possible afaik
Jun 21 13:42:33 <vldcnst> einval: I suggest you google 'mtfb'. Your n900 mtfb hours are drastically being reduced by overclocking.
Jun 21 13:42:36 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: While your point is very valid, and may also be true, there is a way of expressing your opinion/thought towards other people. You rude choosing of words bring me to a state of mind that makes me uncomfortable
Jun 21 13:42:50 <DocScrutinizer> it's considered to be reliable operation but will burn out the cpu over time
Jun 21 13:42:55 <timeless_mbp> eitama: he didn't say go to hell
Jun 21 13:42:58 <timeless_mbp> which might be more suitable
Jun 21 13:42:59 <tybollt> vldcnst: Mean Time Failure Between?
Jun 21 13:43:10 <tybollt> vldcnst: how about you get your acronyms right :)
Jun 21 13:43:15 <vldcnst> mtbf*
Jun 21 13:43:23 <vldcnst> tybollt: slap me.
Jun 21 13:43:28 <eitama> I see
Jun 21 13:43:30 <toggles_w> DocScrutinizer: wears out? due to heat?
Jun 21 13:43:30 <eitama> ok
Jun 21 13:43:34 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: that's been the intention, as overclockers make us all here feel same discomfort
Jun 21 13:43:34 * tybollt slaps vldcnst and calls him suzy
Jun 21 13:43:44 <MohammadAG> ~electromigration
Jun 21 13:43:52 <MohammadAG> fu infobot
Jun 21 13:44:00 <DocScrutinizer> toggles_w: due to an effect known as electromigration
Jun 21 13:44:03 <tybollt> ~MohammadAG
Jun 21 13:44:04 <infobot> mohammadag is probably special
Jun 21 13:44:07 <tybollt> :D
Jun 21 13:44:14 <toggles_w> DocScrutinizer: thanks, will google
Jun 21 13:44:19 <eitama> 1st of all, I am not overclockers. I am an overclocker, so take your hatred and direct it to where ever you want, but not to me.
Jun 21 13:44:29 <DocScrutinizer> toggles_w: wikipedia has a good article
Jun 21 13:44:33 <lcuk> eitama, no hatred
Jun 21 13:44:33 <MohammadAG> ~electromigration is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration
Jun 21 13:44:34 <infobot> MohammadAG: okay
Jun 21 13:44:38 <toggles_w> DocScrutinizer: thanks again
Jun 21 13:44:48 <lcuk> just pointing out issues
Jun 21 13:44:53 <DocScrutinizer> toggles_w: yw
Jun 21 13:45:09 <eitama> 2nd: It may very well be, that I have never thought about the fact that my results for specific testing might be altered by me overclocking, that doesn't mean I am doing it on purpose, and nor I should suffer you tone.
Jun 21 13:45:26 <toggles_w> so if I OC to 900 do you think my n900 will wear out before the n9 with meego arrives?
Jun 21 13:45:35 <timeless_mbp> eitama: we do not want to suffer your complaints later
Jun 21 13:45:47 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer and co are trying to protect me, and my fellow engineers
Jun 21 13:45:51 <timeless_mbp> and we appreciate their efforts
Jun 21 13:46:01 <flux> in any case, if the bug has good reproduction instructions, it will likely be verified by non-overclockers as well. if it doesn't, it will likely get ignored anyway.
Jun 21 13:46:01 <MohammadAG> toggles_w, it might wear out in 10 minutes, today, tomorrow, next week/month/year, no one knows
Jun 21 13:46:03 <eitama> timeless_mbp: I understand your request, but there is another manner of requesting that.
Jun 21 13:46:05 <nidO> toggles_w, likelyhood says probably not, but then you might have the shit luck to have the device that packs up tomorrow after clocking to 900.
Jun 21 13:46:27 <tybollt> toggles_w: I think the thing is ... "do what the fuck you want with YOUR device - just don't bother the rest of us w/ it"
Jun 21 13:46:32 <toggles_w> dammit, might have to buy another..
Jun 21 13:46:46 <MohammadAG> not sure who posted the lifetimes, but they were 10 years for 500MHz, 5 years for 600
Jun 21 13:46:48 <MohammadAG> or so
Jun 21 13:46:57 <toggles_w> thanks for the input guys, sorry to have turned the channel into t.m.o
Jun 21 13:47:01 <vldcnst> MohammadAG: thats probably what I read.
Jun 21 13:47:07 <MohammadAG> 10 years for 550*
Jun 21 13:47:09 <timeless_mbp> toggles_w: apologies appreciated :)
Jun 21 13:47:11 <flux> docscrutinizer, I take it this also means an owner of a second-hand n900 can never submit bug reports, because they cannot be sure the device has never been overclocked.
Jun 21 13:47:18 <E0x> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=500800#post500800 <--- that need a gui
Jun 21 13:47:49 <DocScrutinizer> flux: that's one of the more nasty implications of the whole fsckng OC topic, yes
Jun 21 13:48:06 <MohammadAG> so basically, 2.5 years 650MHz, 1.25 700MHz, 0.524 years 750MHz, 0250 years 800 (rough estimates - no tests to prove them)
Jun 21 13:48:14 <SpeedEvil> E0x: queen beecon
Jun 21 13:48:19 <MohammadAG> 0.250*
Jun 21 13:48:21 <X-Fade> SpComb: ok, found the problem.
Jun 21 13:48:44 <X-Fade> SpComb: Somehow the Qt people thought it was a good idea to put the qtm libs in the sdk/tools repo.
Jun 21 13:48:45 <flux> mohammadag, is the time for running the device continuously at that clock rate?
Jun 21 13:48:46 <pupnik_> MohammadAG: but the OC'd device won't be running at 900mhz all the time
Jun 21 13:48:47 <E0x> SpeedEvil: config guy
Jun 21 13:49:02 <MohammadAG> flux, yes
Jun 21 13:49:13 <nidO> flux, yes, so in practical terms your usage should be much much longer
Jun 21 13:49:24 <nidO> or itll die the first time it tries to step up to those clock speeds
Jun 21 13:49:25 <DocScrutinizer> flux: yes
Jun 21 13:49:33 <MohammadAG> same as LCD TVs I guess, 8000h lifetime
Jun 21 13:49:38 <E0x> err s/guy/gui/g
Jun 21 13:49:48 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: I am not saying your point is invalid. I am saying that if you chosen your words more wisely, for example : "eitama: Overcloking your device may produce unpredicted outcomes, if you open bugs or complain about errors, please mention that your device is overclocked, so we can take that into consideration"
Jun 21 13:50:02 <eitama> It could have been a bit more confortable
Jun 21 13:50:09 <eitama> I'd say, good idea
Jun 21 13:50:12 <eitama> Will do
Jun 21 13:50:14 <eitama> or soemthing like that
Jun 21 13:50:15 <achipa> X-Fade: shouldn't that (qtm) be nokia apps ?
Jun 21 13:50:30 <X-Fade> achipa: That is for the device.
Jun 21 13:50:33 * MohammadAG still likes infobot's overclocking definition
Jun 21 13:50:36 <X-Fade> achipa: Not sdk.
Jun 21 13:50:38 <MohammadAG> ~overclocking
Jun 21 13:50:39 <infobot> "OK, listen up.  This is your CPU."  apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan.  "This is your CPU on overclocking.  Any questions?"
Jun 21 13:50:39 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: sorry, but we all are kinda fed up with the whole OC topic by now
Jun 21 13:50:47 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: nothing personal
Jun 21 13:50:58 <MohammadAG> and vldcnst didn't get DocScrutinizer his coffee :)
Jun 21 13:51:01 <SpComb> X-Fade: right, and I have the sdk/tools repos on my local build env
Jun 21 13:51:02 <eitama> Well, it's not my fault, i didn't create, not the mod, not the package, and not the idea
Jun 21 13:51:07 <DocScrutinizer> how true
Jun 21 13:51:20 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: I know
Jun 21 13:51:34 <X-Fade> SpComb: Yeah, but obviously the builder hasn't.
Jun 21 13:51:37 <eitama> And overclocking has not stopped me from responding on TMO, helping people out
Jun 21 13:51:40 <eitama> many times
Jun 21 13:51:44 <eitama> is my help also questioned?
Jun 21 13:51:45 <X-Fade> SpComb: As it isn't supposed to.
Jun 21 13:51:47 <eitama> cause I am overcloking?
Jun 21 13:51:52 <SpComb> although hmm, I should probably fix my sbdmock to remove those, the example fremantle config that I found included them for whatever reason
Jun 21 13:51:56 <MohammadAG> eitama, chill m8
Jun 21 13:52:01 <eitama> maybe running apt-get install (&*YIUYIUYIUY is not the right command? cause I am overclocking
Jun 21 13:52:02 <eitama> ?
Jun 21 13:52:06 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: and I had quite some debates with the one who did. But he claims he got the right thing, just like Smith&Wesson
Jun 21 13:52:18 <eitama> Well, I didn't
Jun 21 13:52:22 <eitama> I didn't claim anything
Jun 21 13:52:26 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: it's up to the users to understand OC implications
Jun 21 13:52:26 <eitama> so your beef is with him
Jun 21 13:52:27 <SpComb> which kind of spoils the point in sbdmock :)
Jun 21 13:52:28 <eitama> and not with me
Jun 21 13:52:41 <achipa> X-Fade: but... nokia apps should still be there too, right ? is it not part of the nokia-binary-evil-whatnot-repo-group ?
Jun 21 13:52:48 <X-Fade> achipa: no.
Jun 21 13:52:54 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: I understand the implications that my phone may not turn on tomorrow.
Jun 21 13:52:56 <X-Fade> achipa: nokia apps != nokia binaries.
Jun 21 13:53:07 <X-Fade> achipa: Nokia apps is only intended to be used on device.
Jun 21 13:53:16 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: please take my apologies for maybe insulting you or being rude.
Jun 21 13:53:18 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: and now, I also understand that when I report a bug, it might be a side product of overclocking
Jun 21 13:53:22 * SpComb wonders what the proper sources.list for fremantle sbdmock is
Jun 21 13:53:23 <MohammadAG> can we just put down the OC topic?
Jun 21 13:53:32 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: Thank you.
Jun 21 13:53:34 <MohammadAG> please?
Jun 21 13:53:39 <X-Fade> achipa: So firmware + nokia-apps + ssu = sdk + nokia binaries
Jun 21 13:53:40 <vldcnst> Coffee!
Jun 21 13:53:52 <achipa> X-Fade: sooo THAT's why FN people wanted to push it to extras-devel...
Jun 21 13:53:53 * MohammadAG gets his shotgun, vldcnst where's mine!
Jun 21 13:53:59 <X-Fade> achipa: Yes.
Jun 21 13:54:00 <jacekowski> nah, whatever i do it fails on dependencies
Jun 21 13:54:09 <X-Fade> achipa: Because they made a mess in the first place.
Jun 21 13:54:15 <X-Fade> achipa: again
Jun 21 13:54:19 <achipa> X-Fade: what else is new :)
Jun 21 13:54:35 <eitama> And just for the record : https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9442
Jun 21 13:54:36 <povbot> Bug 9442: Media Player volume briefly spikes up when usb cable is connected
Jun 21 13:54:38 <eitama> reported by me
Jun 21 13:54:46 <eitama> reproduced by other people
Jun 21 13:54:49 <achipa> X-Fade: but fear not, more mess incoming, another team should land qtm-experimental-* stuff (if they havent already)
Jun 21 13:54:56 <eitama> i don't see anyone asking them if they are overclocking or not
Jun 21 13:54:59 <MohammadAG> yes, the USB cable being connected raises the CPU to 500MHz
Jun 21 13:55:36 <X-Fade> achipa: Yeah, it is just annoying that we always have to come up with fixes.
Jun 21 13:56:44 <X-Fade> achipa: My guess is that qtm was not really supported enough to put it in sdk, so they sneaked it in somewhere else.
Jun 21 13:57:29 <achipa> X-Fade: I would tend to agree with your guess :)
Jun 21 13:57:51 <achipa> X-Fade: (but I'm not guessing, I know that for a fact ;) )
Jun 21 13:57:59 * MohammadAG ponders if there is a way to disable the green text at boot up (R&D mode) - or delay the framebuffer console a bit
Jun 21 13:58:18 <jacekowski> http://pastebin.com/Jdyjkdzr
Jun 21 13:58:23 <jacekowski> that's my problem
Jun 21 13:58:29 <jacekowski> ehh
Jun 21 13:58:37 <jacekowski> i just realised that i pasted my key
Jun 21 13:58:46 <jacekowski> well, i don't care
Jun 21 13:59:02 <X-Fade> jacekowski: Just delete the post?
Jun 21 13:59:21 <jacekowski> i don't think i can
Jun 21 13:59:26 <jacekowski> besides, googling for that key
Jun 21 13:59:27 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: please take it now that OC is a major PITA as we for damn sure will see reports about random misbehaviour that are caused by OC damaged devices. And really nobody but TI and maybe Nokia could tell for sure
Jun 21 13:59:30 <MohammadAG> umm
Jun 21 13:59:35 <jacekowski> About 214 results (0.22 seconds)
Jun 21 13:59:39 * vldcnst yells MohammadAG: don't shoot! it has your name on it, ready to be served. blame it on fedex! http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4151/coffeeb.jpg
Jun 21 13:59:41 <MohammadAG> is the key generator borked?
Jun 21 13:59:42 <jacekowski> i'm not the first one to do it
Jun 21 13:59:52 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: that does not mean all bug reports are void from now on
Jun 21 13:59:54 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: i think everybody has the same one
Jun 21 14:00:03 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, mine's the same...
Jun 21 14:00:14 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: type it into google
Jun 21 14:00:16 <DocScrutinizer> and now please listen to MohammadAG and drop that nasty topic
Jun 21 14:00:26 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: and you will get like 10 pages of results
Jun 21 14:00:28 * MohammadAG shoots vldcnst's mug, LIES!
Jun 21 14:00:37 <achipa> X-Fade: well, it has good chances for being included in the 'PE1 SDK update', whatever that is
Jun 21 14:00:47 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, thus raising the question, <MohammadAG> is the key generator borked?
Jun 21 14:00:52 <X-Fade> achipa: Yeah, next sdk.
Jun 21 14:01:02 <MohammadAG> I remember it gave me different keys
Jun 21 14:01:06 <lcuk> achipa, what are we including
Jun 21 14:01:15 <achipa> lcuk: qtm
Jun 21 14:01:27 <lcuk> aww vldcnst you made MohammadAG a special cup
Jun 21 14:02:00 <lcuk> achipa, being?
Jun 21 14:02:06 <lcuk> not the open source blogging client
Jun 21 14:02:08 <achipa> lcuk: QtMobility
Jun 21 14:02:12 * MohammadAG slaps lcuk with a frals 
Jun 21 14:02:23 <frals_> oi im trying to work over here!
Jun 21 14:02:25 <lcuk> makes sense then
Jun 21 14:02:32 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: and
Jun 21 14:02:33 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-06-21 15:42:54] <timeless_mbp> eitama: he didn't say go to hell
Jun 21 14:02:35 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-06-21 15:42:58] <timeless_mbp> which might be more suitable
Jun 21 14:02:45 <lcuk> can someone in the NRC find frals and drop some extra work on his desk ;)
Jun 21 14:03:13 <X-Fade> Ah, forgot to do that when I was there ;)
Jun 21 14:03:14 <achipa> lcuk: except for the part of people not being able to push qtm stuff *now* :)
Jun 21 14:03:43 <eitama> lol
Jun 21 14:03:48 <eitama> i'm done arguing
Jun 21 14:03:58 <MohammadAG> aww
Jun 21 14:04:03 <MohammadAG> I haven't finished my popcorn yet
Jun 21 14:04:07 <eitama> lol
Jun 21 14:04:21 <frals_> lcuk: :D
Jun 21 14:04:52 <frals_> lcuk: none knows where im sitting! cept valerio but hes in sweden i think :D
Jun 21 14:05:12 <SpComb> X-Fade: why do all the fremantle sbdmock config examples I can find out there include sdk/tools in the sources.list, then?
Jun 21 14:05:18 <lcuk> lol frals_
Jun 21 14:05:24 <SpComb> nobody just ever wrote a sane one?
Jun 21 14:05:39 * MohammadAG traces frals_'s IP
Jun 21 14:06:04 <frals_> oh.. forgot to identify with nickserv before joining, doh!
Jun 21 14:08:42 <vldcnst> "Overclocking - make your N900 run like it should". Laugh.
Jun 21 14:09:39 <lcuk> vldcnst, my n900 has run like it should from day 1
Jun 21 14:09:48 <vldcnst> Mine too!
Jun 21 14:09:51 <lcuk> from before day1 infact
Jun 21 14:09:57 <lcuk> good!
Jun 21 14:10:13 <MohammadAG> mine ran good - till yesterday
Jun 21 14:10:23 <lcuk> what did you do?
Jun 21 14:10:28 <vldcnst> Shotgun practice?
Jun 21 14:10:38 <eitama> n900 fly
Jun 21 14:10:42 <MohammadAG> not sure, but it's most probably my fault
Jun 21 14:11:10 <MohammadAG> lcuk, load goes up randomly, I saw it was 17.00-ish yesterday
Jun 21 14:11:41 <frals_> hmm
Jun 21 14:11:52 <lcuk> its always your fault, hacking is fun tho :D
Jun 21 14:12:03 <MohammadAG> :)
Jun 21 14:12:20 <alterego> Good point, back to hacking ..
Jun 21 14:12:25 <lcuk> now you just have to find out what you did so no1 else has it happen to htem
Jun 21 14:12:55 <MohammadAG> lcuk, I installed Windows 7 in qemu
Jun 21 14:13:09 <lcuk> on device?
Jun 21 14:13:35 <MohammadAG> alterego, you do know your app could be of other's benefit, just add an echo %s %t and make it echo the song name + artist to a file
Jun 21 14:13:44 <MohammadAG> lcuk, yeah
Jun 21 14:14:09 <alterego> MohammadAG: don't want to use DBUS? :P
Jun 21 14:14:22 <lcuk> MohammadAG, well that would increase load substantially - has it finished booting up yet>
Jun 21 14:14:24 <alterego> MohammadAG: I think, if I was going to do that, I'd probably use gconf actually ...
Jun 21 14:14:26 <MohammadAG> alterego, your app does, why should other's :P
Jun 21 14:14:36 * MohammadAG gets his shotgun again
Jun 21 14:14:40 <MohammadAG> alterego, gconf?
Jun 21 14:14:56 <MohammadAG> lcuk, yeah, it's at "Preparing your desktop"
Jun 21 14:15:06 <alterego> Sure, maintain mafw status in gconf is probably better than writing random strings to a file :P
Jun 21 14:15:19 <alterego> And just as easy to poke at with gconftool-2 in scripts.
Jun 21 14:15:21 * MohammadAG recoils shotgun
Jun 21 14:15:54 <alterego> I'll put it in 0.3 (next version) and document it, good call btw :P
Jun 21 14:15:59 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: there's a lot of warnings and of explanations about OC implications all over the place, some of them quite to the point, others fuzzy and inaccurate. Now that you understood the problem with OC, you could do all fellow users a big favour and think about why you didn't run into them or were ignoring them or whatever, and then maybe fix it in a way you think it should have been so you had known about it before we ran into this little
Jun 21 14:16:00 <DocScrutinizer> dispute here. That's obviously something quite hard to do for dudes like me who already know about all the details and can't figure what's the usual route for a 'noob' (no insult intended) to come to OC
Jun 21 14:16:01 * MohammadAG fires
Jun 21 14:16:16 <lcuk> lol MohammadAG
Jun 21 14:17:21 <alterego> MohammadAG: okay, okay ,what if I create a fuse filesystem you can mount that has the current status of mafw as files under it, as I'd lay it out in gconf :P
Jun 21 14:17:40 <lcuk> who (in england) is betting all the news reports about rampant foxes running wild biting people will mean fox hunting will make a big come back!
Jun 21 14:17:44 <MohammadAG> alterego, no, write the song's name to /dev/mtd0, who needs a bootloader anyways
Jun 21 14:17:53 <alterego> Hah
Jun 21 14:18:08 <MohammadAG> lcuk, me
Jun 21 14:18:49 <lcuk> nothing like pitchforks and maining innocent children to allow savage pack of dogs and howling through the countryside on horseback
Jun 21 14:18:53 * MohammadAG wonders how DocScrutinizer would post 140-letter tweets
Jun 21 14:19:09 <DocScrutinizer> no way
Jun 21 14:19:33 <MohammadAG> it probably won't let you sign up anyways
Jun 21 14:20:13 * MohammadAG sens DocScrutinizer a facebook invitation and runs for his life
Jun 21 14:20:17 <MohammadAG> sends*
Jun 21 14:20:19 <vldcnst> illy = godsent.
Jun 21 14:21:22 <DocScrutinizer> x.o  -> aim and FIRE
Jun 21 14:22:07 <kW_> Hello! How do I make the N900 calendar notify me some defined time before an event?
Jun 21 14:22:10 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, didnt i see you on twitter :D
Jun 21 14:23:11 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: nah, the irc-twitter gateway attributed to me as initiator is a hoax
Jun 21 14:23:35 <lcuk> i would *really* like that tbh
Jun 21 14:23:41 <marmoute> kW_: if you ask him too
Jun 21 14:23:59 <kW_> marmoute: how?
Jun 21 14:24:17 <marmoute> kW_: by setting the Alarm section of the event ?
Jun 21 14:24:28 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: dunno if it can be done. I suggest the incredible alarmed app
Jun 21 14:25:36 <kW_> marmoute: well, there does not seem to be any "Alarm section" of the event
Jun 21 14:25:58 <vldcnst> Look closer.
Jun 21 14:26:09 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: calendar just has 0, 5, 15min in advance
Jun 21 14:26:49 <vldcnst> DocScrutinizer: +30min, 1h, 3h, 1d
Jun 21 14:26:56 <kW_> DocScrutinizer: that would suffice, but in the "Edit event" dialog, I just get the fields "Title", "Where", "All day", "From", "To", "Calendar", "Description"
Jun 21 14:27:15 <DocScrutinizer> oops, yes. had alarm time set to 25min to the future
Jun 21 14:27:15 <marmoute> kW_: yes there is
Jun 21 14:28:07 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: The dispute was not about me not agreeing with you about the potential problems OC might have about me reporting bugs in bugzilla, or filing a warrenty claim @ nokias. It was ONLY about the way you presented the problem before me. Thats all. Anyway, everyone has bad days, i guess today is yours, and I accept your apology. I'll take a look at the OC wiki, and I'll add a line about reporting bugs/errors.
Jun 21 14:28:22 <vldcnst> kW_: What is between Caledan and Description?
Jun 21 14:28:30 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: between calendar and description there's the button for alarm
Jun 21 14:28:44 <kW_> DocScrutinizer: nothing
Jun 21 14:29:12 <vldcnst> Screenshots!
Jun 21 14:29:18 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: thanks, highly appreciated
Jun 21 14:30:40 <kW_> I'm just trying to produce a screenshot...
Jun 21 14:30:56 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: Np.
Jun 21 14:30:56 <DocScrutinizer> lol - that's funny how xchat rises a mini-dialog "are you sure" when you click the mini-closebutton on the mini-window in taskswitcher
Jun 21 14:32:23 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer what button?
Jun 21 14:32:27 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: just make sure everybody understands the fact of OC permanently damaging the device, even when you haven't noticed it during the time you overclocked
Jun 21 14:33:15 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: I'll make sure it's written :) it's not always the case though.
Jun 21 14:33:20 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer i overclocked and my eggs were never burned too much, as well i like to make coffee with my N900 (to boil water at least)
Jun 21 14:33:21 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: taskswitcher (ctrl-bs), then click on xchat's [x] upper right
Jun 21 14:33:24 <kW_> how do I actually create a screenshot? Shift+Ctrl+P does not seem to work
Jun 21 14:33:34 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, i know the drum needs banging, but about 2 hours ago eitama bowed before you and you all made up :P what caused the continuing barrage? :D
Jun 21 14:33:40 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: I had an ATI1950pro that ran at 103 Degrees Celcius Overclocked with just a fan for 2 years before it fried.
Jun 21 14:33:51 <ZogG> kW_ have youc cheked folder for files?
Jun 21 14:33:56 <ZogG> it's screenshot folder
Jun 21 14:33:58 <pupnik_> different chips behave differently
Jun 21 14:34:00 <ZogG> afaik
Jun 21 14:34:11 <kW_> hmm, I think I found it :-)
Jun 21 14:34:22 <ZogG> pupnik_ but Chip and Dale are the best
Jun 21 14:34:44 <marmoute> ZogG: expecialy to kill dragoons
Jun 21 14:34:47 <X-Fade> eitama: TI spec sheets state MTBF goes from years to months.
Jun 21 14:35:21 <X-Fade> Pretty sure TI doesn't want to lie to people buying milions of their cpus :)
Jun 21 14:36:25 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: I'm not arguing with eitama any longer. I just asked him to improve the wiki or whatever he sees would need it, so other users don't run into the same
Jun 21 14:36:37 <lcuk> indeed
Jun 21 14:36:42 <kW_> screenshot: http://imagebin.ca/view/ffGEIQD.html
Jun 21 14:37:22 <eitama> X-Fade: MTBF ?
Jun 21 14:37:37 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: ctrl-sh-p works usually great for me. You just need to find the screenshot file
Jun 21 14:37:38 <eitama> Minimum Time Before Fry?
Jun 21 14:37:39 <madduck> is there an ssh-agent for the n900 that i just cannot find?
Jun 21 14:37:39 <eitama> (:
Jun 21 14:37:52 <eitama> madduck: you mean client?
Jun 21 14:37:54 <kW_> DocScrutinizer: well, I found it :-)
Jun 21 14:37:57 <eitama> madduck: open-ssh
Jun 21 14:37:59 <madduck> eitama: no, agent. auth agent.
Jun 21 14:38:03 <madduck> ssh-agent
Jun 21 14:38:09 <eitama> madduck: Can't help ya (:
Jun 21 14:38:10 <vldcnst> kW_: have you tried changing the day of the alarm?
Jun 21 14:38:15 <vldcnst> kW_: or the hour.
Jun 21 14:38:17 <kW_> vldcnst: yes
Jun 21 14:38:19 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: yep, I'm lagging. Busy unpacking a package from HEL :-))
Jun 21 14:38:33 <kW_> vldcnst: well, the day of the event
Jun 21 14:38:38 <vldcnst> kW_: weird.
Jun 21 14:39:33 <kW_> yes, weird
Jun 21 14:40:40 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: OC damage on OMAP isn't due to overtemp (though high temp helps in making the effect worse). You can create partial shortcircuit in a single transistor of the CPU by OC even when you freeze the device and keep the SoC at <0°C. It's called electromigration and it's a nonreversible slowly building up effect
Jun 21 14:40:56 <kW_> I think I got it
Jun 21 14:41:09 <kW_> when changing the day of the event, I just changed the end-date
Jun 21 14:41:14 <DocScrutinizer> and the "big" processors are less prone to it than our OMAP SoC
Jun 21 14:41:21 <kW_> and alarms are only offered when the event is in the future from the phone's POV
Jun 21 14:41:33 <vldcnst> kW_: yup.
Jun 21 14:41:38 <DocScrutinizer> kW_: makes sense :-P
Jun 21 14:42:34 <eitama> DocScrutinzer: I see. TBH, i bought my N900 from a dude who bought it in NY City, he didn't like that the phone was rebooting every 5 min, so he sold it after 1 week. He bought it in NY, and flew to Israel, so he couldn't have it serviced. Anyways, I updated it to PR1.1.1 reflashed and everything was solved. BUT, therefore, I have no warrenty
Jun 21 14:42:53 <eitama> DocScrutinizer, So i don't care about warrenty as I don't have it anyway, now :
Jun 21 14:43:26 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: the phone UI for me, when not overclocked is just SLOW, choppy and not fun. I don't enjoy it, at least not when compared to my girlfriends IPhone - But I don't want an Iphone
Jun 21 14:43:44 <vldcnst> ow the I word, run.
Jun 21 14:43:46 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: So, I OC it, when it fries, i'll just buy a new phone. let it be MeeGo, or Maemo
Jun 21 14:45:17 <eitama> lol
Jun 21 14:45:41 <eitama> The worst part, is when she plays angrybirds levels that I can't play (;
Jun 21 14:46:52 <SpeedEvil> Keep at it!
Jun 21 14:47:01 <SpeedEvil> oh
Jun 21 14:47:07 <SpeedEvil> I thought you meant due to skill
Jun 21 14:47:08 <SpeedEvil> nvm
Jun 21 14:57:24 <merlin1991> hm and again I'm here with a strange problem, In the media play app I don't have the vhf transmitter option
Jun 21 14:57:27 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: Ping
Jun 21 14:57:33 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Jun 21 14:57:37 <merlin1991> could that have something todo with running 1.2?
Jun 21 14:57:51 <eitama> Would you read what I added? fix anything if needed?
Jun 21 14:58:03 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: of course
Jun 21 14:58:07 <DocScrutinizer> URL?
Jun 21 14:58:07 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking#Overclocking.2C_bugzilla_.26_errors
Jun 21 14:59:32 * merlin1991 meant the fm transmitter
Jun 21 15:00:08 <DocScrutinizer> eitama: sounds perfect to me :-)
Jun 21 15:00:19 <eitama> DocScrutinizer: Goody.
Jun 21 15:05:05 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: fine. devices arrived
Jun 21 15:05:19 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: thanks mate, for taking care about it
Jun 21 15:05:55 <DocScrutinizer> seems now it's time to send in my own N900 to let Nokia repair the power button they broke during last repair
Jun 21 15:05:57 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, why don't you join twitter
Jun 21 15:06:07 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, sue
Jun 21 15:07:19 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, took long enough. ;)
Jun 21 15:07:25 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, and no problem
Jun 21 15:07:42 <GAN900> Gotta do something to offset the negativity. *g*
Jun 21 15:09:07 <insanefaka> so what do people think about meego? seems like a slap to the developes face who  invested in n900
Jun 21 15:10:36 <insanefaka> anybody here?
Jun 21 15:11:02 <toggles_w> is it more than just a recompile to go to meego?
Jun 21 15:11:02 <insanefaka> knock knock
Jun 21 15:11:23 <insanefaka> its a pain in the ass to recompile shit
Jun 21 15:12:03 <MiXu-> If you wrote something on Qt for N900 I think it should run on MeeGo without any problems.
Jun 21 15:12:23 <insanefaka> who knows next year nokia will introduce yet another os
Jun 21 15:12:23 <MiXu-> I don't know if you even need to recompile
Jun 21 15:12:36 <MiXu-> insanefaka: What's the problem?
Jun 21 15:12:37 <insanefaka> and another and another and another
Jun 21 15:12:49 <alterego> New UI is coming on nicely.
Jun 21 15:12:54 <insanefaka> MiXu: with what mate?
Jun 21 15:12:55 * frals loves how we are getting new trolls everyday
Jun 21 15:13:14 <lcuk> frals, well nokia DID buy trolltech :p
Jun 21 15:13:23 <frals> lcuk: :D
Jun 21 15:13:25 <MiXu-> insanefaka: Qt stuff runs just as fine on Maemo 5 as it does on Harmattan
Jun 21 15:13:30 <insanefaka> why should i developer like me invest in n900? tell me
Jun 21 15:13:41 <frals> lcuk: im going to sign apartment papers tomorrow most likely \o/
Jun 21 15:13:44 <MiXu-> ...and then next MeeGo
Jun 21 15:13:48 <toggles_w> alterego: link to pics ;-)
Jun 21 15:13:56 <merlin1991> is thare any other way to enable the fm transmitter besides using the fmtx-faker package?
Jun 21 15:13:57 <lcuk> awesome frals
Jun 21 15:14:06 <alterego> toggles_w: I said it's coming along nicely, didn't say it was finished :P
Jun 21 15:14:12 <toggles_w> lol
Jun 21 15:14:14 <MiXu-> insanefaka: Either your trolling or you don't even try to think for yourself.
Jun 21 15:14:18 <alterego> toggles_w: though, it will probably be done in about 20 minutes or so.
Jun 21 15:14:19 <MiXu-> *you're
Jun 21 15:14:26 <alterego> Just placing my "Donate" button ;)
Jun 21 15:14:32 <insanefaka> i aint trolling
Jun 21 15:14:41 <toggles_w> lol
Jun 21 15:15:00 <toggles_w> alterego: ^-- was for you
Jun 21 15:15:01 <MiXu-> Well then tell me what's the problem? You compile once and the shit runs on N900 and the next armel MeeGo device
Jun 21 15:15:19 <alterego> :)
Jun 21 15:15:27 <insanefaka> what about multitiuch and other shit meego will have?
Jun 21 15:15:39 <insanefaka> yourr
Jun 21 15:15:52 <insanefaka> your recompiling idea is fucked
Jun 21 15:16:01 <frals> err
Jun 21 15:16:05 <MiXu-> insanefaka: I didn't even say anything about recompiling.
Jun 21 15:16:16 <insanefaka> some1 did
Jun 21 15:16:17 <frals> ofc you have to change stuff if you want to add features to your application
Jun 21 15:16:40 <MiXu-> And you gotta recompile anyway every time you make a change
Jun 21 15:17:01 <frals> insanefaka: what kind of developing experience do you have?
Jun 21 15:17:12 <MiXu-> I suppose you were planning on making one perfect release and never have to recompile anything ever again.
Jun 21 15:17:50 <insanefaka> frals: very extensive, right now i see maemo as a dead horse
Jun 21 15:18:28 <frals> any examples?
Jun 21 15:19:41 <frals> since you seems to have missed that qt is probably what you are looking for in terms of code once deploy everywhere (obviously with exceptions) from what ive gathered
Jun 21 15:19:42 <insanefaka> cant share here
Jun 21 15:20:15 <MiXu-> Maemo is pretty much a dead horse in a way. No new releases. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't develop SW on N900, as it'll work on the next MeeGo Handheld device(s). If you want multitouch then that you'll need to wait. But I don't see the problem in that.
Jun 21 15:20:17 <lcuk> insanefaka thats unusual for people not to be able to share some things they done
Jun 21 15:20:18 <insanefaka> that dont make sense
Jun 21 15:20:27 <lcuk> especially since maemo is about open source and open projects ;)
Jun 21 15:20:56 <insanefaka> maemo open source? dont make me laugh
Jun 21 15:21:08 <Surfa> you shouldn't be able to add multitouch and new features later on if you implement wisely
Jun 21 15:21:11 <n900-dk> MohammadAG: Shouldn't the LEDs flash all the time the KnightRider music is playing for your KR.py script? (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52239)
Jun 21 15:21:25 <Surfa> so n900 should be good to go as a dev platform for meego
Jun 21 15:21:33 <insanefaka> Xsu
Jun 21 15:21:42 <insanefaka> Surfa: NO !
Jun 21 15:21:44 <trip0> Surfa, so we hear...
Jun 21 15:22:10 <lcuk> insanefaka, there seems to be quite a lot of things here: http://maemo.gitorious.org/
Jun 21 15:22:43 <lcuk> but anyway - you are the one coming here being rather obtuse - frals asked a perfectly valid question
Jun 21 15:23:05 <lcuk> you made a statement and he enquired further to continue the discussion :)
Jun 21 15:23:17 <frals> insanefaka: i suggest you look at qt, seems to be what you are after
Jun 21 15:24:18 <MiXu-> As such, writing programs in Qt doesn't even bind you to N900 or anything else for that matter.
Jun 21 15:24:59 <MiXu-> I've started programming my Qt apps as "windows apps"
Jun 21 15:25:07 <MiXu-> And later tweaked the UI to fit N900
Jun 21 15:25:46 <alterego> I just ssh into my device and code using gedit on my laptop, saving it to the device and running it from the console :)
Jun 21 15:26:02 <alterego> Unless I use the Nokia SDK, which does a similar thing but with a build phase and pretty good automation.
Jun 21 15:26:23 <lcuk> alterego, i did that for ages :)
Jun 21 15:26:36 <MiXu-> The SDK is nice, but MADDE doesn't support external libraries, and that pretty much kills it for me at this point.
Jun 21 15:26:38 <lcuk> it only gets hairy when you want same code on multi devices at same time
Jun 21 15:27:05 <MiXu-> That better be something that's "coming soon"
Jun 21 15:27:07 <alterego> lcuk: yeah, works really good for Python development, though I think you're talking about C aren't you :P
Jun 21 15:27:10 <alterego> sadist :P
Jun 21 15:27:31 <lcuk> indeed - same mentality for dev but optimal speed :P
Jun 21 15:27:55 <frals> python über alles! ;)
Jun 21 15:28:20 * lcuk dumps an ocean worth of trout on frals
Jun 21 15:28:31 <frals> :D
Jun 21 15:29:13 <achipa> frals: is that German for 'python FTW' ? :P
Jun 21 15:29:20 <merlin1991> achipa yes
Jun 21 15:29:34 * merlin1991 just got his 10th beep battery low message from his fresh replaced n900, lol
Jun 21 15:29:58 <lcuk> my n900 gives up warning me about battery low once i start writing on it
Jun 21 15:30:06 <merlin1991> :D
Jun 21 15:30:14 * alterego wires up his signals and sluts
Jun 21 15:30:17 <alterego> I mean .. slots ...
Jun 21 15:30:42 <chem|st> achipa: more like "python to rule the world"
Jun 21 15:30:45 <achipa> MiXu-: there is a tendency to think about Qt on mobiles as a complete environment, I doubt there will ever be serious support for external libs
Jun 21 15:30:54 <merlin1991> I had that with my old n900 too, the first time I did let it run empty I got the battery low msgs way too early, but after that it knew when to spam me :)
Jun 21 15:31:01 <alterego> Stupd bloody python ..
Jun 21 15:31:20 <alterego> I can't believe that their lambda's don't have proper closure properties in a for loop :(
Jun 21 15:31:23 <chem|st> alterego: right!
Jun 21 15:31:40 <evilrob> python -- whitespace for code block separation...  this is not cobol
Jun 21 15:32:09 <alterego> Syntax doesn't bother me, but some things it does are just dumb.
Jun 21 15:32:26 <alterego> Ruby is sooo much nicer :(
Jun 21 15:32:47 <alterego> Well, beggers can't be choosers (he says as he connects his donate button to paypal)
Jun 21 15:33:21 <MiXu-> achipa: That's too bad. Try writing an app that displays PDFs with Qt without using an external lib. You'll be reinventing the wheel.
Jun 21 15:33:41 <achipa> chem|st, merlin1991 : I know, I was translating to slang. My German is bad (Tarzan Deutsch am besten), but I do get the grasp (vielen Dank fur Trek auf RTL :) )
Jun 21 15:34:36 <achipa> MiXu-: poppler, eh ?
Jun 21 15:34:55 <chem|st> achipa: hehe "python FTW" is actually right but historical set its "to rule the world"
Jun 21 15:36:54 <alterego> Well, it was solved by explicitly creating a stack frame inside my for loop, stupid python ..
Jun 21 15:38:21 <alterego> Now, even though I'm adding support for internet radio, and videos. Well, internet raido is easy, but videos don't have metadata in tracker :/
Jun 21 15:39:50 <alterego> Just gonna have to use the file name - dirname and extension me thinks.
Jun 21 15:40:00 <pupnik_> "tarzan deutsch"  LOL
Jun 21 15:41:52 <merlin1991> hm my n900 is still running xD
Jun 21 15:43:04 <achipa> pupnik_: never did a proper effort to memorize der/die/das and corresponding grammar so my German sentences are just a bunch of words except for a few common phrases (to make things worse, even those are mostly based on Star Trek :D )
Jun 21 15:44:58 <merlin1991> is it possible that with pr 1.2 the fm transmitter is disabled in general?
Jun 21 15:45:11 <merlin1991> because I don't even have a settings panel that tells me it's disabled
Jun 21 15:45:58 <achipa> merlin1991: which region ? Germany should have it, AFAIK
Jun 21 15:46:05 <merlin1991> austria
Jun 21 15:46:07 <merlin1991> should have it too
Jun 21 15:46:28 <achipa> aye
Jun 21 15:47:27 <merlin1991> well I had to send my original device to nokia since it was broken and got a replacement, who knows what region it thinks it is from
Jun 21 15:51:04 <merlin1991> btw it's still running, I had 3 more warning beeps, and it's playing mp3s all the time
Jun 21 15:51:10 <SpeedEvil> merlin:in that case, it probably is disabled for your region.
Jun 21 15:51:14 <microlith> why yes, nokiausa, I will review the device I never got from you
Jun 21 15:51:16 * microlith chuckles
Jun 21 15:52:17 <merlin1991> well I'll try the fmtx-faker as soon as the battery has died out and I load it again
Jun 21 15:52:51 <timeless_mbp> microlith: details?
Jun 21 15:53:26 <microlith> oh they think that my orders with them back in november->december actually went through, instead of being rejected without explanation
Jun 21 15:53:50 <microlith> ended up going with Newegg
Jun 21 15:58:27 <merlin1991> I want to implement another protocol for the conversation and contacts system (like the msn stuff,...) but I would need a slight hint to some documentation about the c&c itself :)
Jun 21 16:03:33 <alterego> merlin1991: you actually need to read up on Telepathy
Jun 21 16:03:59 <alterego> merlin1991: Conversations uses a system called Telepathy for IM accounts.
Jun 21 16:04:06 <alterego> It's clever like that :D
Jun 21 16:04:39 <merlin1991> well I got so far to know that, but then there was a certain lack of easy to find documaentation about telepathy, at least for me
Jun 21 16:04:42 <n900-dk> How do I make mediaplayer start playing the last played media from commandline? As in pressing play on the mediaplayer-widget
Jun 21 16:06:17 <MiXu-> achipa: Yes, poppler is an external library, no? :)
Jun 21 16:06:46 <alterego> n900-dk: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Play_what.27s_currently_selected
Jun 21 16:06:58 <alterego> merlin1991: Do you understand how Telepathy works?
Jun 21 16:07:20 <merlin1991> not yet since I found nothing to read for myself
Jun 21 16:07:27 <dr34m> guys anybody using this pelota thing? stopped working today .. i restart it and get like 2min. the results than it stops and says 'no games today'
Jun 21 16:07:28 <dr34m> :(
Jun 21 16:07:35 <alterego> merlin1991: then check out the Telepathy documentation, on the Telepathy website.
Jun 21 16:07:44 <n900-dk> alterego: great, thx!
Jun 21 16:07:54 <alterego> np
Jun 21 16:08:07 <Robot101> merlin1991: also #telepathy on this network
Jun 21 16:08:22 <merlin1991> thx Robot101
Jun 21 16:10:05 <merlin1991> finally the phone died
Jun 21 16:10:27 <MiXu-> Hmm... I suppose I could just compile poppler along with my app.
Jun 21 16:12:59 <alterego> MiXu-: you'll need to find a way to do that and not screw up the builder if you plan to push to extras :)
Jun 21 16:14:03 <DocScrutinizer> hi Robot101 o/ :-)
Jun 21 16:18:14 <Robot101> merlin1991: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org - http://people.collabora.co.uk/~danni/telepathy-book/
Jun 21 16:21:55 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, Version:1.2009.42-11 on this fresh device. Seems I should try an OTA upgrade immediately
Jun 21 16:22:26 <DocScrutinizer> never realyized the firstrun settings wizard was SO fancy
Jun 21 16:22:58 <bigon> mmmm did other ppl saw an global issue with application using curl when a host name has both A and AAAA records?
Jun 21 16:23:34 <bigon> I've found this bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9943 but not sure if it's using libcurl too
Jun 21 16:23:35 <povbot> Bug 9943: MfE Wizard fails if exchange server hostname has IPv4 and IPv6 addresses
Jun 21 16:28:54 <insanefaka> i'm getting bored of n900.... fuck linux
Jun 21 16:29:06 <insanefaka> open source my ass
Jun 21 16:29:24 <DocScrutinizer> insanefaka: that's starting to get a bit too much trolling now
Jun 21 16:29:50 <DocScrutinizer> insanefaka: if you're bored about N900, so why share with us?
Jun 21 16:29:59 <insanefaka> expressing my opinion
Jun 21 16:30:16 <insanefaka> it's a free society aint it?
Jun 21 16:30:27 <pupnik> it isn't
Jun 21 16:30:30 <DocScrutinizer> opinions are like asholes, everybody got one
Jun 21 16:30:43 <insanefaka> pupnik: oh no?
Jun 21 16:31:10 <pupnik> quite
Jun 21 16:31:42 <insanefaka> pupnik: well to me it is
Jun 21 16:31:59 <bigon> well and a irc is not a democracy it's a moderatocracy (like forums)
Jun 21 16:32:22 <pupnik> we're trying to make it freer.  thatps part of what motivates open-source
Jun 21 16:32:30 <insanefaka> bigon: please check the definition of "forum" in a dictionary
Jun 21 16:33:09 <insanefaka> "forum" does not imply a closed conversation between like minded people
Jun 21 16:35:11 <insanefaka> everytime somebody has a different opinion from yours you can't just say "troll"....it's a fucking weak argument, no?
Jun 21 16:35:26 <alterego> troll
Jun 21 16:35:34 <pupnik> ^^
Jun 21 16:35:42 <insanefaka> alterego: troll you
Jun 21 16:35:50 <pupnik> plonk
Jun 21 16:35:53 <alterego> Heh
Jun 21 16:35:56 <DocScrutinizer> I just say "BORING, INPRODUCTIVE"
Jun 21 16:36:23 <E0x> insanefaka: true but say that you are bored of the n900 and linux sux is a weak opinion too and should keep it for ur self
Jun 21 16:36:26 <alterego> Well, you've gone from one rather pointless and uninformed discussion to another.
Jun 21 16:36:48 <DocScrutinizer> ack
Jun 21 16:36:48 <vldcnst> Smells like a troll to me.
Jun 21 16:36:53 <DocScrutinizer> ack
Jun 21 16:36:56 <vldcnst> syn
Jun 21 16:36:56 <insanefaka> you have to listen to other opinions in order to expand your knowledge...spending time in a love fest with other like minded people is called regression, no?
Jun 21 16:37:08 <alterego> insanefaka: right now, being here, what exactly are you trying to acheive? Be honest now ..
Jun 21 16:37:31 <DocScrutinizer> OMFG, my knowledge expanded beyond all limits by learning yu're bored by N900
Jun 21 16:37:32 <RST38h> insanefaka: And, closer to the point, what are you wearing, pretty?
Jun 21 16:37:33 <E0x> insanefaka: opinion without facts are not useful
Jun 21 16:37:48 <insanefaka> alterego: honest? i'm pissed at the liers
Jun 21 16:38:07 <alterego> insanefaka: and you thought you'd air that here? We're not really interested.
Jun 21 16:38:28 <alterego> insanefaka: So, who lied to you?
Jun 21 16:38:35 <insanefaka> I'm trying to open your minds cause your part of the problem
Jun 21 16:38:51 <RST38h> insanefaka: Yet, you refuse to tell what you are wearing
Jun 21 16:39:01 <alterego> insanefaka: that's a rather unkind statement, you don't know us.
Jun 21 16:39:14 <lcuk> insanefaka, open mind towards what - you wont tell us what you do or why its better
Jun 21 16:39:22 <insanefaka> i do know you
Jun 21 16:39:37 <alterego> insanefaka: you're an idiot, that's all I know about you.
Jun 21 16:39:46 <alterego> insanefaka: now what do you know about me?
Jun 21 16:39:50 <insanefaka> i was a contributing member of this once long ago vibrant community
Jun 21 16:40:02 * DocScrutinizer is close to decide insanefaka either not passed the turing test or qualified in a plethora of other reasons for a kickban
Jun 21 16:40:15 <vldcnst> What frequency did it vibrate at?
Jun 21 16:40:20 <pupnik> have any of you tried that motorola phone with android and keyboard?  keyboard seems nice but the dpad looks annoying
Jun 21 16:40:32 <alterego> insanefaka: well, forgive me if I'm wrong, but your attitude suggest you're not a contributing type.
Jun 21 16:40:49 <insanefaka> pupnik: it's miles away ahead of n900
Jun 21 16:41:05 <valdyn> pupnik: milestone keyboard is lame
Jun 21 16:41:14 <alterego> insanefaka: okay, so you're an android fanboy?
Jun 21 16:41:26 <insanefaka> altergo: negative
Jun 21 16:41:38 <insanefaka> alterego: negative boy
Jun 21 16:41:40 <alterego> insanefaka: just anti maemo
Jun 21 16:41:49 <valdyn> pupnik: and theres plenty better android phones, however none with physical keyboard I think
Jun 21 16:41:59 <insanefaka> alterego: anti deceit and lies
Jun 21 16:42:07 <pupnik> interesting ty valdyn
Jun 21 16:42:33 <valdyn> pupnik: so if you wanted android and a physical keyboard its probably not to bad
Jun 21 16:42:50 <insanefaka> android is ahead of the game
Jun 21 16:42:52 <alterego> insanefaka: you're not being straight with us, you're just being argumentative, if you actually told us what was wrong, maybe we could help. But you're just trying to pick fights. You've not even used your real nick, that is, if you really were a "contributing" member of our community at one time.
Jun 21 16:42:52 <pupnik> it seems the android phone vendors are sucking with updates atm
Jun 21 16:43:16 <insanefaka> alterego: i cant reveal
Jun 21 16:43:19 <valdyn> insanefaka: zealotry is off topic, no matter which phone you want to talk about
Jun 21 16:43:39 <insanefaka> valdyn: i'm no zealot
Jun 21 16:43:54 <valdyn> insanefaka: you only talk like one
Jun 21 16:44:06 <insanefaka> valdyn: negative
Jun 21 16:44:36 <insanefaka> 1.2 is a regression. period. end of discussion.
Jun 21 16:45:17 <bigon> insanefaka: let's try again, what in the 1.2 update made you think that there are regressions?
Jun 21 16:45:45 <insanefaka> bigon: overall lack of responssivness
Jun 21 16:45:58 <DocScrutinizer51> bigon: he said 'end of discussion'. I tend to fulfill his wish
Jun 21 16:46:11 <insanefaka> bigon: broken media player widget
Jun 21 16:46:29 <insanefaka> bigon: shall i go on?
Jun 21 16:46:39 <bigon> insanefaka: did you opened bugs?
Jun 21 16:46:42 <insanefaka> bigon: worse battery life
Jun 21 16:46:44 <alterego> insanefaka: media widget is working for me, are you sure there's not something else that is wrong?
Jun 21 16:46:48 <valdyn> I find it more responsive
Jun 21 16:47:02 <Venemo> alterego: hi!
Jun 21 16:47:02 <alterego> insanefaka: most people have said the opposite in regards to responsiveness and battery life.
Jun 21 16:47:08 <alterego> Ello Venemo :)
Jun 21 16:47:11 <Venemo> alterego: can I PM you?
Jun 21 16:47:17 <insanefaka> bigon: pardon my language but fuck opening bugs nokia doesnt give a fuck about
Jun 21 16:47:19 <alterego> Venemo: of course
Jun 21 16:48:07 <insanefaka> 1.2 is a disaster... n900 being resetted every couple of days
Jun 21 16:48:28 <nidO> its all so clear now, nokia should use their super psycic magic 8-ball to find out about problems you and basically no-one else is having
Jun 21 16:48:38 <alterego> insanefaka: Nokia are a large company, this is not something that is completely un-expected, if you have issue with them, why don't you go and tell them?
Jun 21 16:48:50 <nidO> being as almost everyone reports much better responsiveness and increased battery life after 1.2
Jun 21 16:49:18 <alterego> I have heard that the media widget breaks fora few people, but I use it all the time and it works fine for me ..
Jun 21 16:49:23 <E0x> i have 2 days of uptime
Jun 21 16:49:25 <E0x> in my n900
Jun 21 16:49:31 <E0x> err 3 days
Jun 21 16:49:41 <alterego> Mine just restarted because the battery died.
Jun 21 16:49:43 <insanefaka> EOx: bullshit
Jun 21 16:49:47 <alterego> But it was doing pretty well before then :)
Jun 21 16:49:49 <bigon> alterego: the media widget seems broken here
Jun 21 16:49:49 <E0x> maybe your n900 have some hardware problem
Jun 21 16:50:00 <E0x> manufacture problem
Jun 21 16:50:15 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer51, you and andre__. That's not how you use "tend". :P
Jun 21 16:50:16 <valdyn> theres *some* actual problem with larger uptime and responsiveness
Jun 21 16:50:21 <alterego> insanefaka: your language doesn't help you sound particularly mature you realise this?
Jun 21 16:50:23 <valdyn> but thats not worse than older firmware
Jun 21 16:50:34 <lcuk> insanefaka, :) its entirely feasible you can run your n900 down in no time - anyone can, i think we worked out at max burn battery can be drained in less than 2 hours
Jun 21 16:50:38 <insanefaka> I'm on my 4th N900, I'm losing patience
Jun 21 16:50:55 <lcuk> what are you getting instead?
Jun 21 16:51:02 <alterego> insanefaka: I don't believe you, but I'll give you the benifit of the doubt.
Jun 21 16:51:05 <lcuk> anything to replace it?
Jun 21 16:51:40 <insanefaka> 1st N900 - screen died, 2nd N900 usb broke, 3rd N900 lose slider
Jun 21 16:51:57 <insanefaka> get your shit together n900 lovders !
Jun 21 16:51:58 <valdyn> insanefaka: maybe you should treat a phone more carefully
Jun 21 16:52:12 <alterego> insanefaka: so it's our fault you're unlucky? pahahaha
Jun 21 16:52:41 <lcuk> insanefaka, come now - you have so far had a laundry list of bitching complaints that started a couple of hours ago
Jun 21 16:52:49 <lcuk> just get yourself a new platform and move on
Jun 21 16:52:49 <insanefaka> paint wearing off keypad... kickstand lose....on and on and fucking on
Jun 21 16:53:15 <pupnik> effective troll there
Jun 21 16:53:17 <alterego> insanefaka: well, that's what you get for requesting a tighter slide :P
Jun 21 16:53:33 <lcuk> sure - dedicated ill give him that
Jun 21 16:53:49 <insanefaka> I'm fucking frustrated
Jun 21 16:53:57 <alterego> insanefaka: have a wank, usually sorts me out.
Jun 21 16:54:06 <lcuk> TMI
Jun 21 16:54:18 <DocScrutinizer> insanefaka: you've been warned, kicked, and banned several times during the last few months about your trolling in here
Jun 21 16:54:23 <insanefaka> alterego: i'm a woman
Jun 21 16:54:26 <DocScrutinizer> absolutely last warning
Jun 21 16:54:37 <insanefaka> sorry guys
Jun 21 16:54:40 <alterego> insanefaka: again, I don't believe you.
Jun 21 16:55:06 <insanefaka> I'm fucken confused
Jun 21 16:55:30 <lcuk> insanefaka, you said earlier that you are a software developer who makes lots of stuff - have you made any maemo apps
Jun 21 16:57:18 <alterego> lcuk: he said he was a "contributer" earlier :)
Jun 21 16:57:23 <alterego> Some time ago,
Jun 21 16:57:29 <alterego> Before women were invented
Jun 21 16:58:31 <flailingmonkey> I like the proactive steps being taken about t.m.o
Jun 21 16:58:48 <DocScrutinizer> which are...?
Jun 21 16:59:00 <DocScrutinizer> shut it down? :-P
Jun 21 16:59:19 <flailingmonkey> insanefaka: I'm sorry you have had so much trouble with your N900s. I can only report that I haven't been as unfortunate as you have.
Jun 21 16:59:40 <lcuk> mr bump hasnt been as unfortunate as him
Jun 21 17:00:27 <lcuk> are any of the bluetooth heart monitors also capable of blood alcohol monitoring
Jun 21 17:01:17 <lcuk> like the anklet thing lindsey lohan has
Jun 21 17:01:51 <frals> lol
Jun 21 17:01:57 <lcuk> SCRAM!
Jun 21 17:01:57 <flailingmonkey> I want to see some celebs side-talking with an N900
Jun 21 17:02:29 <crope> insanefaka: usb connector breaks off? thats know hw design big...
Jun 21 17:02:31 <flailingmonkey> have to use speaker phone but should be doable
Jun 21 17:02:32 <crope> bug
Jun 21 17:02:56 <lcuk> flailingmonkey, im seriously more interested in a star trek communicator doofer
Jun 21 17:03:08 <flailingmonkey> doofer?
Jun 21 17:03:10 <alterego> New UI: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/media-im-status-updater/Screenshot-20100621-175951.png
Jun 21 17:03:11 <DocScrutinizer> crope: sorry but no. That's a fabrication bug mostly found on some preseries devices
Jun 21 17:03:30 <DocScrutinizer> crope: no design bug
Jun 21 17:03:40 <lcuk> kickass alterego \o
Jun 21 17:03:46 <flailingmonkey> DocScrutinizer: regarding my t.m.o comment, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56702
Jun 21 17:03:55 <alterego> thanks lcuk :)
Jun 21 17:04:19 <flailingmonkey> alterego: looks sexy
Jun 21 17:04:33 <lcuk> alterego, you shouldnt have donate button though.  you need "send appreciation via karaoke
Jun 21 17:04:52 <alterego> Heh
Jun 21 17:05:08 <flailingmonkey> donate button is unfortunate but exists due to lack of better alternative :-p
Jun 21 17:05:09 <lcuk> does that update to twitter?
Jun 21 17:05:26 <alterego> lcuk: no, I could add that if you wanted me to.
Jun 21 17:05:48 <alterego> By writing a Telepathy twitter iface.
Jun 21 17:05:57 <alterego> Which is probably a good idea anyway.
Jun 21 17:06:01 <lcuk> what would i have to sing you to get that? :P
Jun 21 17:07:36 <alterego> I'll put it in the road map for 0.4 :P
Jun 21 17:09:01 <alterego> I'd do one for facebook, but that'd just annoy the scht out of people :)
Jun 21 17:09:48 <alterego> 0.4 will be a big feature release though, with twitter telepathy plugin (though that'll be a seperate project) and a youtube video finding and facebook posting facility.
Jun 21 17:10:10 <alterego> So, when you hear a song you really like, you can hit a button and it'll get you the youtube video and share it on facebook.
Jun 21 17:11:59 <Arkenoi> pupnik: actually exactly the opposite thing: dpad is great but droid keyboard sucks.
Jun 21 17:12:08 <alterego> Heh
Jun 21 17:13:10 <DocScrutinizer> flailingmonkey: hmmm on that. WTF? no ban me
Jun 21 17:15:18 <E0x> alterego: that is carbon theme ?
Jun 21 17:15:24 <E0x> at the shot
Jun 21 17:15:37 <alterego> E0x: indeed.
Jun 21 17:16:09 <E0x> ok
Jun 21 17:16:09 <E0x> thx
Jun 21 17:21:26 <alterego> Thank god for that :) I think he got the message :)
Jun 21 17:25:03 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: :-)
Jun 21 17:26:40 <DocScrutinizer> flailingmonkey: what exactly is your comment? which number in t=56702?
Jun 21 17:27:31 <crope> btw. I tried to connect my old Nokia 770 via bluetooth N900 without success...
Jun 21 17:28:14 <crope> all my other phones connects just fine to internet from 770 bluetooth
Jun 21 17:29:35 <Arkenoi> iirc there was bt tethering package, i guess it adds some profiles
Jun 21 17:30:34 <crope> Arkenoi: you mean it was due to missing profile (DUN??)?
Jun 21 17:30:57 <RST38h> It enabled DUN
Jun 21 17:30:59 <wolf^> alterego, what theme are you using?
Jun 21 17:31:34 <lcuk> crope, surfing on you 770 using n900 as modem? :D
Jun 21 17:31:42 <crope> lcuk: yeah
Jun 21 17:31:56 <RST38h> Oh man, this Flandry guy obviously has not done his required Lord of the Flies reading
Jun 21 17:31:57 <crope> lcuk: since 700 does not have gsm/umts connection...
Jun 21 17:32:01 <lcuk> crope, when you get it working can we have some pictures
Jun 21 17:32:05 <DocScrutinizer> bbl
Jun 21 17:32:05 <RST38h> Or maybe he simply has not understood...
Jun 21 17:33:07 <crope> lcuk: have you ever used Nokia 770? There is no SIM-card, only Bluetooth and WLAN are possible
Jun 21 17:33:53 <lcuk> crope, you could feasibly have been using your 770 as a gateway to wifi internet.. just good to see still in action
Jun 21 17:35:07 <crope> lcuk: wifi seems to be broken, I just installed OS2008 hackers edition and I am willing to use that device as OBD diagnistics. Carman...
Jun 21 17:35:42 <crope> oooowww, now wifi is working :D
Jun 21 17:35:57 <lcuk> :D crope
Jun 21 17:36:49 <crope> and not now anymore. only gprs connection :[ and Nokia 770 is veeeery slow. N900 is much better
Jun 21 17:37:17 <pupnik> browsing web feels painfully slow on n810 now
Jun 21 17:37:27 <flailingmonkey> DocScrutinizer: sorry, my comment was in IRC, that I approve of the changes to policy, and how the decision making is being done in the open
Jun 21 17:37:55 <flailingmonkey> crope: someone was working on getting carman working for N900
Jun 21 17:37:56 <DocScrutinizer> aah, ok.
Jun 21 17:38:20 <DocScrutinizer> flailingmonkey: I somewhat share RST38h POV though
Jun 21 17:39:10 <flailingmonkey> what is RST38h's POV?
Jun 21 17:40:09 <RST38h> flailing: There is a dangerous busybody in that thread, using his moderatorial privileges to boss people around
Jun 21 17:40:28 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, pictures of the new baby? ?P
Jun 21 17:40:46 <DocScrutinizer> sure. You really want?
Jun 21 17:41:53 <RST38h> flailing: Among other things, he is trying to make it look like his proposed "rules" have wide public support
Jun 21 17:41:56 <DocScrutinizer> maybe later. had no brweakfast or other decent meal for 72h
Jun 21 17:42:55 <RST38h> flailing: My suggested remedy would be to feed him shit, collectively, until he bursts. But that is unlikely to happen, due to the current lack of community spirit.
Jun 21 17:43:20 <Mousey> rah rah rah
Jun 21 17:43:39 <flailingmonkey> which one is the busy body
Jun 21 17:43:57 <flailingmonkey> ah, Flandry?
Jun 21 17:49:07 <flailingmonkey> RST38h: why not opposed the proposed rules? so far I see discussion in the thread, but no disagreement
Jun 21 17:49:16 <flailingmonkey> s/opposed/oppose/
Jun 21 17:49:16 <infobot> flailingmonkey meant: RST38h: why not oppose the proposed rules? so far I see discussion in the thread, but no disagreement
Jun 21 17:51:30 <DocScrutinizer> flailingmonkey: tbh I couldn't care less about tmo
Jun 21 17:51:40 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, cya
Jun 21 17:51:47 <lardman> hey chaps
Jun 21 17:51:55 <lardman> bye DocScrutinizer assuming you're off
Jun 21 17:52:12 <flailingmonkey> lardman: ahoy
Jun 21 17:52:22 <lardman> flailingmonkey: there!
Jun 21 17:53:25 <RST38h> flailing: he has the standard response to opposition
Jun 21 17:53:42 <GAN900> I don't see much to quibble with
Jun 21 17:53:45 <lardman> hey RST38h
Jun 21 17:53:51 <RST38h> flailing: "What part of the rules you do not agree with? You do not agree with the whole thing? This is not constructive criticism, go away."
Jun 21 17:53:55 <RST38h> moo lardman
Jun 21 17:54:02 <lardman> and GAN900, ah good to see all the old faces, where's Jaffa these days?
Jun 21 17:54:05 <alterego> Doc is turning into GAN :P
Jun 21 17:54:24 <flailingmonkey> maemofication
Jun 21 17:54:34 <lardman> alterego: ah, but what is GAN900 turning into then...?
Jun 21 17:54:39 <flailingmonkey> like mummification
Jun 21 17:54:49 <lardman> brain removed through nose?
Jun 21 17:54:59 <RST38h> OSSification
Jun 21 17:55:05 <lardman> sounds more like tmo-ification ;)
Jun 21 17:55:45 <alterego> GAN900 has always been in a league of his own
Jun 21 17:55:49 <GAN900> lardman, a frog?
Jun 21 17:56:10 <GAN900> Is that the special kind? :P
Jun 21 17:56:22 <lardman> :)
Jun 21 17:56:22 <alterego> Hah
Jun 21 17:56:45 <flailingmonkey> RST38h: saying that you disagree with the "whole thing" might be your opinion, but that doesn't really articulate the reasons for that opinion
Jun 21 17:57:53 <RST38h> flailing: Instituting these rules will let their creator satisfy his petty governance desires, at the expense of the freedom of speech for us all
Jun 21 17:58:12 <flailingmonkey> for example, a bunch of the policy items are from the current policy
Jun 21 17:58:55 <RST38h> flailing: Of course, why not
Jun 21 17:59:42 <flailingmonkey> if you really mean that we should have no policy, and have no restrictions on any postings at all on t.m.o, then thats a position I am sure some also hold
Jun 21 17:59:54 <RST38h> Anyway, I have got some popcorn and expect to see this particular drama to its logical conclusion
Jun 21 18:00:27 <RST38h> flailing: It is perfectly ok to have a simple technical policy (no ads, no spam, etc)
Jun 21 18:01:55 <RST38h> flailing: Elaborate policies with complex rules, allowing for wide interpretation, the system of points and punishments, etc are characteristic for very special forms of governance though
Jun 21 18:02:11 <flailingmonkey> and should that policy define the mechanisms for enforcing that policy?
Jun 21 18:02:29 <lcuk> lardman, jaffa was around this morn
Jun 21 18:02:37 <RST38h> flailing: That is up to you to think over. I have done my best to explain my point.
Jun 21 18:02:40 <lardman> hey lcuk, how's things?
Jun 21 18:02:47 <flailingmonkey> lcuk: there is no morning on IRC :P
Jun 21 18:02:52 <lcuk> on the subject of old timers :P RST38h is turning into a grouch too ;)
Jun 21 18:03:02 <lcuk> flailingmonkey, when we are all in the uk there is
Jun 21 18:03:03 <lardman> flailingmonkey: well there is if you both have the same ugt offset ;)
Jun 21 18:03:09 <RST38h> lcuk: Like I have ever been different...
Jun 21 18:03:28 <lcuk> RST38h, sure - you used to just be strange guy who posted scp ;)
Jun 21 18:03:39 <lcuk> now you are just strange grumpy guy :P
Jun 21 18:03:41 <RST38h> lcuk: Ah, we can always get back to that =)
Jun 21 18:04:00 <lcuk> theres plenty of creepy pasta there
Jun 21 18:04:05 <lardman> what we need is to meet up and drink expensive beer again
Jun 21 18:04:42 <lcuk> yeah lardman we deffo do
Jun 21 18:05:06 <lardman> are people going to go to the meego summit?
Jun 21 18:05:15 <lardman> I can't make it, clashes with a conference
Jun 21 18:05:45 <flailingmonkey> RST38h: I see what you are gesturing to (verbally), but the current policy is basically that its up to mods to determine how to handle infractions. if that works better for you, it would be work recommending
Jun 21 18:05:58 <DocScrutinizer> ~tell flailingmonkey about ugt
Jun 21 18:05:59 <RST38h> ...Once the victim has been completely enfolded, thousands of hair-like protrusions extend from the surface of the carpet and dig into the victims skin, quickly draining them of blood over the next ? minutes...
Jun 21 18:06:11 <lcuk> i imagine most should be lardman
Jun 21 18:06:15 <flailingmonkey> i can't make it, becuase I'm on the wrong side of the atlantic
Jun 21 18:06:37 <lcuk> RST38h, i thought you were meant to be doing scp and not windows update
Jun 21 18:06:38 <dima202> lol you guys read that flash 10 post? one of us has some "connectoins" at the top of the food chain
Jun 21 18:06:48 <lardman> linky?
Jun 21 18:07:03 <lcuk> which conf this time lardman
Jun 21 18:07:06 <RST38h> flailing: you are at the mods' mercy either way. having more rules gives them more reasons to screw you.
Jun 21 18:07:14 <RST38h> (and yes, that has always been the case with humanity)
Jun 21 18:07:22 <lardman> same one, nde stuff, i.e. day job :)
Jun 21 18:07:38 <lardman> but this time it doesn't almost clash, it really does (at least afair)
Jun 21 18:08:01 <lcuk> heh yeah i remember your gallavanting
Jun 21 18:08:23 <lcuk> i beat visual basic to a pulp last night after not being able to do something
Jun 21 18:08:28 * lcuk can do it now
Jun 21 18:08:34 * flailingmonkey has been enlightened. and will live a neverending morning...
Jun 21 18:08:43 <lcuk> and it apologised personally for putting me through crap
Jun 21 18:08:48 <flailingmonkey> wrt UGT
Jun 21 18:08:49 <lardman> :)
Jun 21 18:08:57 <dima202> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=721141&postcount=724
Jun 21 18:09:03 <lcuk> flailingmonkey, who says you cant make it
Jun 21 18:09:06 <lardman> dima202: thanks
Jun 21 18:09:12 <RST38h> lcuk: isn't it kinda retro to still program in VB?
Jun 21 18:09:22 <RST38h> At least get yourself some C#...
Jun 21 18:09:35 <lcuk> RST38h, not coding in it - converting some layouts i wrote long ago in it
Jun 21 18:09:35 <flailingmonkey> it makes good money to maintain VB6 :-) its the new cobol
Jun 21 18:09:37 <lcuk> to c
Jun 21 18:09:48 <lardman> nah, most of the code I have only works with vb6
Jun 21 18:09:57 <lardman> i.e. libs for hardware stuff
Jun 21 18:10:02 <Venemo> RST38h: well, VB is equal to C#
Jun 21 18:10:15 <RST38h> lcuk: Ah
Jun 21 18:10:17 <lardman> Venemo: in craptasticness?
Jun 21 18:10:20 <lardman> ;)
Jun 21 18:10:22 <lcuk> vb6 is still interoperable in windows despite microsofts best intentions
Jun 21 18:10:29 <lcuk> thanks to activex
Jun 21 18:10:38 <lardman> yeah it is, though it's not pleased to install on Windows 7 I note
Jun 21 18:10:40 <RST38h> Windows still has CALL5, doesn't it?
Jun 21 18:10:45 <flailingmonkey> VB6 isn't going anywhere. the VS6 licences aren't going to be replaced by expensive VS2008 or w/e and are very popular in china
Jun 21 18:10:54 <lcuk> i wouldnt know lol
Jun 21 18:11:06 <lcuk> call5?
Jun 21 18:11:25 <DocScrutinizer> I prefer the old COBOL
Jun 21 18:11:27 <lcuk> is that another rst38h typ thing?
Jun 21 18:11:41 <RST38h> lcuk: CP/M services entry point
Jun 21 18:11:45 <RST38h> lcuk: Like INT21
Jun 21 18:11:56 <lcuk> cool
Jun 21 18:12:05 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, im surprised you arent a valve fan :p
Jun 21 18:12:09 <RST38h> In fact, INT21 should also be operational =)
Jun 21 18:12:20 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jun 21 18:12:45 <lcuk> RST38h, theres lots in the core of windows that is still operational
Jun 21 18:12:55 <jacekowski> as far as i know int21 is gone forever
Jun 21 18:13:07 <lcuk> oh no, net dying
Jun 21 18:13:24 <lcuk> lagometer at max and net deaded
Jun 21 18:18:41 <insanefaka> i see tmo is turning into a lovefest
Jun 21 18:19:06 <microlith> as opposed to the usuall troll-and-hatefest?
Jun 21 18:23:42 <insanefaka> as opposed to constructive criticism
Jun 21 18:23:46 * SpeedEvil comments on the 'rules' thread.
Jun 21 18:24:10 <SpeedEvil> (re: blanket ban on buisness advertising isn't always good)
Jun 21 18:24:36 <Stskeeps> Sygic would be banned then, wouldnt they?
Jun 21 18:24:40 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 21 18:24:48 <Stskeeps> well that's one counterargument
Jun 21 18:24:49 <SpeedEvil> And mugen
Jun 21 18:24:57 <SpeedEvil> and ...
Jun 21 18:24:57 <Stskeeps> cos they were really engaging as part of community
Jun 21 18:25:12 <SpeedEvil> I totally agree that people spamming screen protectors would be bad.
Jun 21 18:28:15 <insanefaka> why would you ban the only people (Sygic) whose app is any good on maemo?
Jun 21 18:28:40 <SpeedEvil> Have I missed a 'This is what you should do so that your app does not use lots of battery' on the wiki?
Jun 21 18:29:54 <lcuk> fakes stands are cool, mugens batteries have a purpose, angrybirds and all the commercial things due from ovi let people play - commercial != bad, but blatant spamming is
Jun 21 18:29:57 * SpeedEvil wonders if the username SteveJobs is vacant on TMO.
Jun 21 18:35:11 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> what is the alarm supposed to play?
Jun 21 18:35:12 <lardman> mmm, pizza, and not a rasher of bacon in sight (though now I type that, I am thinking it might be nice...) :)
Jun 21 18:35:22 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> the system ringer?
Jun 21 18:35:47 <DocScrutinizer> worst thing always is the army of idiots. Wherever you run into them
Jun 21 18:37:22 <lcuk> mmm lardman bacon pizza
Jun 21 18:38:13 <lcuk> 20+seconds of lag to get to host+1 after my router :( gnite chaps
Jun 21 18:38:14 <lardman> does sound rather good
Jun 21 18:38:23 <lardman> night lcuk !
Jun 21 18:39:51 * DocScrutinizer feels grumpy due to missing food. Bye now
Jun 21 18:40:11 <crashanddie> greetings, earthlings
Jun 21 18:40:21 <lardman> hey crashanddie
Jun 21 18:40:34 <Venemo> is there anyone here who is familiar with MADDE?
Jun 21 18:41:39 <Venemo> I would like to create a library with it, but it seems that it doesn't place the header files into the -dev.deb
Jun 21 18:47:01 <madeinkorea> wow !
Jun 21 18:50:49 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> so the alarm clock ringer can't be set separately?
Jun 21 18:51:36 <SpeedEvil> What do you mean? You can play all the alarm sounds independantly
Jun 21 18:54:46 <clasificado> hi all
Jun 21 18:55:09 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I mean, what setting in the general profile corresponds to what is played as the system alarm?
Jun 21 18:55:17 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> sorry for the delay SpeedEvil, heh
Jun 21 18:55:27 <SpeedEvil> ah - sorry - don't know that off-hand.
Jun 21 18:56:35 * lardman heads to sort out a second pizza... :)
Jun 21 18:57:40 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I wonder why he is called "lardman"
Jun 21 19:03:20 <DocScrutinizer51> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: clock menu alarm settings
Jun 21 19:04:54 <DocScrutinizer51> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: and obviously it's not supposed to change with profile settings
Jun 21 19:08:34 <n900-dk> how to read the volume value from commandline?
Jun 21 19:10:21 <SpeedEvil> alsactl will do it
Jun 21 19:10:26 <SpeedEvil> you probably don't want to do that
Jun 21 19:11:43 <n900-dk> if it can be done, I sure will :)
Jun 21 19:11:46 <DocScrutinizer51> SpeedEvil: I wonder if it's really alsa
Jun 21 19:12:07 <SpeedEvil> It's not
Jun 21 19:12:10 <SpeedEvil> It's pulse
Jun 21 19:12:12 <SpeedEvil> but...
Jun 21 19:12:32 <SpeedEvil> Anyway - does anyone know of a page on the wiki 'this is what you nee to do to maximise battery life'
Jun 21 19:12:38 <SpeedEvil> (for your application)
Jun 21 19:13:00 <GAN900> SpeedEvil, there's something in one of the Maemo docs somewhere
Jun 21 19:13:29 <DocScrutinizer51> SpeedEvil: not really
Jun 21 19:13:56 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah, what GAN900 said
Jun 21 19:14:48 <SpeedEvil> GAN900: Pointer would be welcome - I was contemplating writing something
Jun 21 19:15:02 <SpeedEvil> I had a brief look, and couldn't find
Jun 21 19:15:09 <adna> greetings. anybody here using busybox on an n900?
Jun 21 19:15:16 <Stskeeps> we all are :P
Jun 21 19:15:16 <SpeedEvil> adna: everyone
Jun 21 19:15:25 <Venemo> adna: what else?
Jun 21 19:15:25 <SpeedEvil> well - not lcuk. But he's wierd.
Jun 21 19:15:37 <adna> where is "less" and "nano"
Jun 21 19:15:53 <SpeedEvil> less is in the tools repository
Jun 21 19:16:04 <SpeedEvil> unsure where nano is.
Jun 21 19:16:11 <adna> Thnx!
Jun 21 19:16:37 <adna> Where do I get info on location of .deb repositories?
Jun 21 19:17:01 <SpeedEvil>  /etc/sources.d/hildon-application-manager.list
Jun 21 19:17:03 <SpeedEvil> or something
Jun 21 19:17:08 <SpeedEvil>  /etc/apt/sou...
Jun 21 19:18:24 <ptl> SpeedEvil: were you looking for that? http://62.61.85.167/platform/docs/howtos/coding_style.html#power-saving
Jun 21 19:18:51 <adna> I thought the contents of hildon-application-manager.list was already what apt-get update was using.
Jun 21 19:18:52 <SpeedEvil> http://pastebin.ca/1887946 adna is my current list - you want to carefully consider what you enable
Jun 21 19:18:59 <SpeedEvil> adna: it is
Jun 21 19:19:08 <SpeedEvil> adna: ah - sorry - that's what I thought you meant
Jun 21 19:19:50 <adna> So if the tools repo is in hildon, why can't apt-get install find "less"
Jun 21 19:20:09 <SpeedEvil> ptl: Hmm - could maybe do some additions.
Jun 21 19:20:20 <SpeedEvil> adna: It can.
Jun 21 19:20:26 <SpeedEvil> Or at least it can with me.
Jun 21 19:20:30 <SpeedEvil> Maybe it hates you.
Jun 21 19:21:01 <adna> I think so.
Jun 21 19:21:19 <SpeedEvil> what error does atp-get instal l  less give?
Jun 21 19:21:20 <adna> apt-get install:  "couldn't find package less"
Jun 21 19:22:55 <ptl> less is in the tools and extras-devel repositories
Jun 21 19:23:04 <ptl> add or activate them and you'll be able to install
Jun 21 19:23:35 <adna> Ahh. I see. My (raw) version of hildon doesn't include tools.
Jun 21 19:24:02 <adna> I'll add those and it should do the trick. Thanks!
Jun 21 19:34:53 <adna> SpeedEvil: Thnx! Sweet 'less' and 'nano' are back.
Jun 21 19:35:23 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 21 19:35:55 <SpeedEvil> now update to PR1.2 - if you have not already, install the sdk repo, and apt-get install build-essentials.
Jun 21 19:36:07 <adna> Anybody know why Maemo is using the hildon(...) repo list instead of just /etc/apt/sources.list?
Jun 21 19:36:47 <adna> ...and why vi is crippled? ("'q' is not implemented...")
Jun 21 19:36:51 <nextime> adna: it just use the /etc.sources.list.d/name.list schema
Jun 21 19:36:53 <SpeedEvil> busybox vi
Jun 21 19:37:10 <nextime> it is a common way for debian based things
Jun 21 19:37:21 <adna> But then why not bash?
Jun 21 19:37:28 <SpeedEvil> adna: The answer to many of these questions is: 'A wizard at nokia did it for reasons more complex than you could possibly understand.
Jun 21 19:37:41 <adna> ha.
Jun 21 19:38:00 <SpeedEvil> adna: Busybox is a sane choice. Busybox is considerably lighter for scripting than bash and friends.
Jun 21 19:38:02 <nextime> adna : maemo is an embedded linux distro for a limited device, it is not a desktop pc
Jun 21 19:38:18 <nextime> so, it is very common to use busybox for all the base system
Jun 21 19:38:23 <adna> Right (sigh).
Jun 21 19:38:39 <SpeedEvil> With busybox - starting any contained process - most of the process is already in RAM. This dramatically reduces ram use and startup time
Jun 21 19:38:46 <nextime> adna: you CAN anyway install bash if you really need it
Jun 21 19:39:30 <adna> Is there a 'best' webpage on a maemo site listing available repos and what's in them?
Jun 21 19:39:43 <adna> Maybe with annotations like 'Use at your own risk!"
Jun 21 19:40:17 <SpeedEvil> Practically, I've not had major stability problems with anything I've installed.
Jun 21 19:40:25 <nextime> http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository
Jun 21 19:40:26 <flailingmonkey> there is really just: extras, extras-testing, extras-devel (and I guess tools)
Jun 21 19:40:48 <SpeedEvil> In general - avoid anything that says 'kernel' or 'flasher' and you should be fine
Jun 21 19:40:56 <alterego> Heh
Jun 21 19:41:19 <SpeedEvil> Many of the early problems have been alrgely resolved with new processes on the bildserver to automagically move stuff off the root filesystem.
Jun 21 19:41:25 <flailingmonkey> do be aware that enabling devel (and testing to a lesser degree) results in dealing with a much bigger apt db
Jun 21 19:41:44 <flailingmonkey> and that slows down installs/updates/etc noticably
Jun 21 19:41:55 <SpeedEvil> However - installing everything isn't possible - you run out of space on the 2G software partition soon.
Jun 21 19:42:46 <nextime> is there any overlay fs support in the default kernel?
Jun 21 19:43:08 <adna> Thanks, all. I just got my n900 and you've been incredibly helpful.
Jun 21 19:43:28 <SpeedEvil> np.
Jun 21 19:43:35 <SpeedEvil> nextime: no
Jun 21 19:43:46 <adna> I just have one last question (right now). How do you ssh to your phone?
Jun 21 19:44:10 <nextime> adna : you need at least to setup a password
Jun 21 19:44:19 <adna> I just connected via USB in 'PC-Suite' mode but from my PC I get 'no route to host'.
Jun 21 19:44:20 <nextime> and of corse install ssh :)
Jun 21 19:44:31 <adna> I've done both.
Jun 21 19:44:32 <nextime> adna : i ssh over wifi
Jun 21 19:45:06 <adna> nmap shows ssh is running on port 22. Why would there be no route to host?
Jun 21 19:45:08 <pahartik> adna: I just got my "Nokia N900" about 30 hours ago and have been trying to set things up correctly... Very good so far
Jun 21 19:45:42 <nextime> adna : maybe you just aren't in the same subnet or something like that on the pc side?
Jun 21 19:46:33 <DocScrutinizer51> flailingmonkey: that's damn true
Jun 21 19:48:13 <flailingmonkey> adna: connecting by usb does not automagically create usb networking
Jun 21 19:48:24 <DocScrutinizer51> adna: install ssh
Jun 21 19:48:28 <flailingmonkey> there are instructions on the wiki
Jun 21 19:48:38 <adna> flailingmonkey: right.
Jun 21 19:48:44 <SpeedEvil> adna: enable extras. Install ssh server and client (same package) pick a root passowrd
Jun 21 19:49:22 <SpeedEvil> adna: scp id_rsa.pub to phones /root - static IP makes it easy.
Jun 21 19:49:28 <DocScrutinizer51> adna: setting up usb networking is a pita
Jun 21 19:49:45 <adna> I did: ifup usb0   ifconfig usb0 192.168.1.101
Jun 21 19:49:53 <SpeedEvil> adna: move id_rsa.pub into the .ssh directory, rename it authorized_hosts and then chmod it to 600. chmod .ssh to 700
Jun 21 19:50:00 <SpeedEvil> and then you can just do ssh root@Phone
Jun 21 19:50:22 <adna> it worked fine for one session, but now it shows no route to host. Never got it to work over wifi.
Jun 21 19:51:05 <vallhalla-mobile> hello all
Jun 21 19:51:32 <adna> vallhalla-mobile: hi.
Jun 21 19:52:12 <DocScrutinizer51> adna: check pkg PC connectivity manager. Still you need correct setup on PC side for USB networking
Jun 21 19:52:54 <adna> DocScrutinizer51: thnx!
Jun 21 19:54:02 <DocScrutinizer51> adna: setting up usb networking is a pita
Jun 21 19:54:10 <DocScrutinizer51> adna: check pkg PC connectivity manager. Still you need correct setup on PC side for USB networking
Jun 21 19:55:01 <flailingmonkey> with wifi, you can usually address the hostname Nokia-N900-42-11 and it will work
Jun 21 19:58:47 <madeinkorea> why isnt xchat kenetic ?
Jun 21 19:58:58 <vallhalla-mobile> is there a way to use framebuffer on a n900?
Jun 21 19:59:07 <madeinkorea> who uses scrollbars in 21 century ?
Jun 21 19:59:28 <trip0> madeinkorea, because it's a port from the gtk version
Jun 21 19:59:41 <vallhalla-mobile> many did back in the 21st
Jun 21 20:00:02 <madeinkorea> man i hate these half assed ports
Jun 21 20:00:15 <DocScrutinizer51> scrollbars of xchat are a pain
Jun 21 20:00:18 <trip0> madeinkorea, most people hate porting code more.
Jun 21 20:00:20 <adna> DocScrutinizer51: ? on PC (kubuntu) 'ls /dev' doesn't show a usb device. just 'usbmon0' - 'usbmon5'...
Jun 21 20:00:50 <DocScrutinizer51> bur with right keymapping you can use shift-up/down
Jun 21 20:00:55 <madeinkorea> why even bother porting if it blows chunks
Jun 21 20:01:07 <DocScrutinizer51> xchat isn't hildonized
Jun 21 20:01:15 <madeinkorea> i know
Jun 21 20:01:33 <vallhalla-mobile> use irssi i find its better
Jun 21 20:01:54 <trip0> does irssi have kenetic scrolling?
Jun 21 20:02:01 <madeinkorea> but irsi is too damn plain
Jun 21 20:02:31 <vallhalla-mobile> no just use pgup pgdn simple but ef
Jun 21 20:02:45 <adna> How does one pipe something to grep on the n900 keypad?
Jun 21 20:03:15 <Appiah> symbol adna
Jun 21 20:03:20 <vallhalla-mobile> irssi is very easy to set as non plain i have many colors and themes on it
Jun 21 20:03:22 <DocScrutinizer51> adna: bluefunc + sym
Jun 21 20:04:31 <adna> ..so the blue arrow key + Sym + ..what for a pipe?
Jun 21 20:04:50 <vallhalla-mobile> is there a way to use framebuffer on a n900? both on startup for messages and in a console
Jun 21 20:05:03 <vallhalla-mobile> adna: yep then select the pipe
Jun 21 20:05:49 <microlith> vallhalla-mobile: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Kernel
Jun 21 20:06:10 <vallhalla-mobile> microlith: thankyou
Jun 21 20:06:38 <vallhalla-mobile> no way to do it without losing defualt kernal?
Jun 21 20:07:07 <microlith> correct, support is not compiled into the default kernel
Jun 21 20:07:29 <vallhalla-mobile> that is a shame
Jun 21 20:07:55 <microlith> not really, options like that are unnecessary for most of the populace
Jun 21 20:08:09 <microlith> personally I'd rather have an easy to access UART :)
Jun 21 20:08:15 <vallhalla-mobile> CutMeOwnThroat: is your name a pratchet reference?
Jun 21 20:08:29 <adna> vallhalla-mobile: There's no pipe to select. Is it a three key combo?
Jun 21 20:08:31 <CutMeOwnThroat> vallhalla-mobile, sausage inna bun for you?
Jun 21 20:08:42 <CutMeOwnThroat> they're freshly delivered today!
Jun 21 20:08:50 <vallhalla-mobile> woof?
Jun 21 20:09:00 <CutMeOwnThroat> named animal, too
Jun 21 20:09:21 <vallhalla-mobile> oo how novel
Jun 21 20:09:36 * CutMeOwnThroat .oO( I think he was called 'spot' )
Jun 21 20:09:44 <vallhalla-mobile> do you hav ne thin ona stik?
Jun 21 20:10:01 <CutMeOwnThroat> no, ran out
Jun 21 20:10:06 <luke-jr> hum
Jun 21 20:10:13 <DocScrutinizer51> adna: should be there on vkbd
Jun 21 20:10:21 <vallhalla-mobile> ah well ta ne way mr dibbler
Jun 21 20:10:29 <luke-jr> so a N900 was just delivered to me o.O
Jun 21 20:10:37 <adna> DocScrutinizer51: Yes, I just found it.
Jun 21 20:10:44 <CutMeOwnThroat> you'll come back when you regret your decision :)
Jun 21 20:10:46 <Stskeeps> luke-jr: scary
Jun 21 20:10:47 <luke-jr> but no letter or conditions or anything... anyone know anything about this? XD
Jun 21 20:10:55 <Stskeeps> luke-jr: did you sign up for the device queue?
Jun 21 20:11:13 <vallhalla-mobile> CutMeOwnThroat: im of ta the mended drum
Jun 21 20:11:21 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: a while ago, yeah; that's my guess, but I was expecting someone to tell me they were sending it and what the terms were and such
Jun 21 20:11:47 <Stskeeps> more importantly, how'd they get your addy?
Jun 21 20:11:47 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 21 20:12:04 <luke-jr> someone did ask me for it a few weeks ago-- GAN I think
Jun 21 20:12:15 <Stskeeps> ah
Jun 21 20:12:24 <ecksun> is there some frontend to alarmd?
Jun 21 20:12:46 <Stskeeps> luke-jr: not sure there's any terms if none came along
Jun 21 20:12:56 <luke-jr> basically, I'm wondering if I'm expected to finish N8x0 mainlining in exchange, or write apps for it, or *not* reveng BME/GPS, or such
Jun 21 20:13:08 <Stskeeps> or port gentoo
Jun 21 20:13:18 <luke-jr> "or such"
Jun 21 20:13:19 <luke-jr> :p
Jun 21 20:13:22 <Stskeeps> or contribute to meego ;)
Jun 21 20:13:32 <luke-jr> the possibilities are endless
Jun 21 20:13:34 <luke-jr> lol
Jun 21 20:13:37 <Stskeeps> well, have fun
Jun 21 20:13:42 <Stskeeps> perhaps you can join DocScrutinizer51's BME project
Jun 21 20:13:47 <luke-jr> ?
Jun 21 20:13:56 <DocScrutinizer51> luke-jr: you applied for devel dev?
Jun 21 20:14:04 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer51: a what?
Jun 21 20:14:37 <Stskeeps> luke-jr: the battery charging on N900 is much safer and DocScrutinizer51 and co seems to know how to do safe open charging
Jun 21 20:14:41 <DocScrutinizer51> luke-jr: seems there are no terms
Jun 21 20:14:54 <Stskeeps> any 'NOT FOR SALE' label on the box?
Jun 21 20:15:00 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: not that I saw
Jun 21 20:15:16 <luke-jr> btw, my first impression: "I sure hope this isn't what the end users get"
Jun 21 20:15:23 <Stskeeps> heh
Jun 21 20:15:25 <DocScrutinizer51> your contributions are just appreciated so muh ;-D
Jun 21 20:15:26 <luke-jr> intuitiveness is *terrible*
Jun 21 20:15:31 <Stskeeps> well you use gentoo.
Jun 21 20:15:32 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 21 20:15:37 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: not yet
Jun 21 20:15:44 <luke-jr> it's got whatever was shipped to me still
Jun 21 20:15:44 <Stskeeps> so your intuitiveness is different than normal people
Jun 21 20:15:52 <luke-jr> ah, I see what you mean
Jun 21 20:15:52 <DocScrutinizer51> luke-jr: so welcome to the club now XP
Jun 21 20:16:05 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer51: got yours too?
Jun 21 20:16:11 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: for example, I had a hard time finding settings
Jun 21 20:16:24 <luke-jr> and when I did, I didn't off-hand guess that I had to disable auto-update on the clock to set a timezone
Jun 21 20:16:30 <luke-jr> (wtf is with that, btw?)
Jun 21 20:16:33 <Stskeeps> luke-jr: ah, yeah, that's a nice wtf
Jun 21 20:16:43 <Stskeeps> you'd want to set Region initially
Jun 21 20:17:08 <luke-jr> regionwas already "English (UK)"
Jun 21 20:17:11 <luke-jr> which is what I want
Jun 21 20:17:35 <Stskeeps> but if you're wanting to contribute, i'd point you in direction of either meego-n900 or DocScrutinizer51's work, either one benefits a more open n900
Jun 21 20:17:45 <luke-jr> anyhow, the shipment I *was* expecting also arrived, and I need to have that one ready to send out by 4 today :)
Jun 21 20:17:55 <luke-jr> so 45 mins to figure out how to install Kubuntu w/o a CD drive :x
Jun 21 20:18:08 <luke-jr> I'll get back to N900 later
Jun 21 20:19:22 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Jun 21 20:23:04 <DocScrutinizer51> so FINALLY luke-jr got a device. No more hiding away now :-P
Jun 21 20:23:32 <pronto> o=
Jun 21 20:23:35 <pronto> \o/
Jun 21 20:26:12 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer51: hiding?
Jun 21 20:26:41 <DocScrutinizer51> luke-jr: just kidding :)
Jun 21 20:29:09 <DocScrutinizer51> luke-jr: your arse is owned by Nokia now :-P. No oher terms involved
Jun 21 20:32:40 <Nirtal> Wich is the best spotify client for maemo?
Jun 21 20:32:47 <Nirtal> the most stable
Jun 21 20:42:46 <nextime> route -n
Jun 21 20:42:50 <nextime> ops
Jun 21 21:11:37 <n900-dk> How come this value X has to larger than 10 to hear the sound from the speakers? :
Jun 21 21:11:48 <n900-dk> dbus-send --session --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.set_extension_property string:'volume' variant:uint32:X
Jun 21 21:12:00 <DocScrutinizer51> somebody set +m, or what?
Jun 21 21:12:18 <Appiah> O_O
Jun 21 21:14:36 <b-man> hmm
Jun 21 21:14:46 <DocScrutinizer51> mmh
Jun 21 21:19:25 <luke-jr> hmm
Jun 21 21:19:39 <luke-jr> came with some weird Finnish plug :P
Jun 21 21:20:01 <luke-jr> guess no car charging for me :p
Jun 21 21:20:39 <asj_> your car doesn't have usb? how so last decade
Jun 21 21:20:52 <luke-jr> asj_: 2001
Jun 21 21:21:01 <asj_> luke-jr: time to upgrade ;)
Jun 21 21:21:28 <luke-jr> asj_: not until 2011 at least
Jun 21 21:21:36 <luke-jr> my next upgrade is probably a 15 passenger
Jun 21 21:22:11 <asj_> luke-jr: how many kids do you have?
Jun 21 21:22:27 <luke-jr> 4 so far
Jun 21 21:22:37 <luke-jr> but I like to buy vehicles that will last 5 years at least
Jun 21 21:22:48 <luke-jr> so potentially 9 by the time I get rid of the next one
Jun 21 21:23:13 * asj_ coughs
Jun 21 21:26:52 <ShadowJK> luke-jr, heh, what did you order from where?
Jun 21 21:27:09 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: ?
Jun 21 21:27:10 <crashanddie> chem|st: around?
Jun 21 21:27:16 <crashanddie> Flandry: around?
Jun 21 21:27:28 <ShadowJK> <luke-jr> came with some weird Finnish plug :P
Jun 21 21:27:55 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: the N900 that was delivered to me today
Jun 21 21:29:11 <ShadowJK> The wall charger?
Jun 21 21:29:34 <luke-jr> yeah
Jun 21 21:29:41 <crashanddie> luke-jr: finnish plug? you mean european?
Jun 21 21:29:56 <crashanddie> luke-jr: two round plugs?
Jun 21 21:30:34 <luke-jr> I think so
Jun 21 21:30:38 <ShadowJK> guess you can still charge it from computer with usb
Jun 21 21:30:49 <luke-jr> yeah
Jun 21 21:30:52 <luke-jr> just not in the car :)
Jun 21 21:30:53 <crashanddie> luke-jr: you in the UK?
Jun 21 21:31:13 <luke-jr> no
Jun 21 21:31:36 <ShadowJK> luke-jr, inverter -> wall charger setup in car is kinda silly anyway ;P
Jun 21 21:31:50 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: sure
Jun 21 21:32:24 <ShadowJK> I guess your freebie/loaner/unknown didn't come with the adapter that lets you use N810's charger either..
Jun 21 21:32:44 <luke-jr> maybe
Jun 21 21:32:49 <luke-jr> not sure what one of the wires is
Jun 21 21:32:55 <luke-jr> has 2 round plug slots
Jun 21 21:33:48 <crashanddie> luke-jr: one is for the micro-Nokia charger, other is for the medium Nokia charger
Jun 21 21:34:04 <crashanddie> luke-jr: N810 came with the micro one, you just need to plug one in
Jun 21 21:34:17 <ShadowJK> luke-jr, does it have a Nokia on one side and Nokia\nCA-146C\nMade in china  on the other side in stupidly small font?
Jun 21 21:34:19 <crashanddie> though it charges the N900 very, very slowly
Jun 21 21:34:38 <crashanddie> and sometimes it burns through, for no apparent reason
Jun 21 21:35:29 <ShadowJK> Everytime you use it, a member of GreenPeace loses a patch of hair
Jun 21 21:36:41 <Nirtal> help, I can't use apt-get, I get this error message when I'm trying to do anything "E: The package qtspotify needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an archive for it.
Jun 21 21:36:41 <Nirtal> "
Jun 21 21:37:46 <luke-jr> burns through?
Jun 21 21:39:19 <ShadowJK> It's a mildly inefficient buck voltage regulator padded with plastic and no heatsink
Jun 21 21:39:46 <ShadowJK> Reportedly it can create its own big hole for ventilation if the need arises >:-)
Jun 21 21:42:56 <asj_> Nirtal: use dpkg to remove it?
Jun 21 21:43:10 <Nirtal> can't
Jun 21 21:43:27 <asj_> what does dpkg say?
Jun 21 21:43:47 <Nirtal> Package is in a very bad inconsistent state - you should
Jun 21 21:43:47 <Nirtal>  reinstall it before attempting a removal.
Jun 21 21:44:30 <asj_> Nirtal: you probably have to remove it by hand, I have to leave, someone else can point you at the right files
Jun 21 21:44:55 <Nirtal> someone else, please help me!!!
Jun 21 21:48:04 <ShadowJK> uh, wtf, I have a xterm consuming 4.2 gigs of memory..
Jun 21 21:48:14 <microlith> mmm, buffers
Jun 21 21:50:02 <SpeedEvil> RSS!=real memory
Jun 21 21:50:25 <SpeedEvil> though a RSS of 4.2G on a 32 bit device is somewhat cunning.
Jun 21 21:57:26 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> what might be the difference between the way firefox connects to a proxy in linux on my desktop vs via 3g in maemo?
Jun 21 21:57:35 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> (the prior works, the latter does not)
Jun 21 21:57:47 <ShadowJK> not much
Jun 21 21:58:30 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> well I kinda need help debuging this
Jun 21 21:58:41 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> it is supposed to work to get around my providers port 80 block
Jun 21 21:58:46 * pahartik finally manages to get "Nokia N900" connected through IPv6 over Bluetooth PAN
Jun 21 21:58:50 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> once I get 3g I'll be happy
Jun 21 21:58:54 <SpeedEvil> I would start by running tcpdump on the proxy
Jun 21 21:59:01 <ShadowJK> Well my first assumption would be that your provider blocks your proxy too
Jun 21 21:59:12 <SpeedEvil> From wget on each platform
Jun 21 21:59:15 <ShadowJK> So I'd do what SpeedEvil suggested to
Jun 21 21:59:23 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> how? that port is supposed to be open (http://wiki.howardforums.com/index.php/T-Mobile_Data)
Jun 21 21:59:27 <SpeedEvil> I'd agree with ShadowJKs wise suggestion.
Jun 21 21:59:29 <DrGrov> Is it best to charge the phone when it is turned on or turned off?
Jun 21 21:59:29 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 21 21:59:41 <ShadowJK> DrGrov, no difference really
Jun 21 21:59:47 <microlith> DrGrov: on, it's quite useless when off :/
Jun 21 21:59:49 <SpeedEvil> DrGrov: turned on will give you more feedback - and with backlight off - is not really any slower
Jun 21 21:59:59 <DrGrov> ShadowJK: ok
Jun 21 22:00:12 <DrGrov> I just see some lagging with opening up the shortcuts on the desktop
Jun 21 22:00:15 * SpeedEvil tries to remember what he was wanting to ask ShadowJK.
Jun 21 22:00:19 <DrGrov> That is why I wondered if a reboot is in order
Jun 21 22:00:37 <SpeedEvil> Oh - nvm - it was a silly thought.
Jun 21 22:00:50 <SpeedEvil> '3' in the UK offer free skype-skype calls if you use their downloaded client.
Jun 21 22:01:01 <SpeedEvil> I was wondering how to tunnel while pretending to be skype
Jun 21 22:01:18 <DrGrov> Is not the regular default Skype calls on the N900 free?? :/
Jun 21 22:01:36 <DrGrov> Skype to Skype calls that is
Jun 21 22:01:37 <SpeedEvil> skype calls may or may not be free.
Jun 21 22:01:48 <SpeedEvil> However - data transfer to make skype calls is often not free
Jun 21 22:01:58 <DrGrov> Ah, data transfer will never be a problem
Jun 21 22:01:59 <SpeedEvil> (as in beer)
Jun 21 22:02:12 <SpeedEvil> '3' were offering free skype calls 'forever'
Jun 21 22:02:23 <SpeedEvil> On a free SIM
Jun 21 22:02:26 <DrGrov> Ah, so the data transfer would be free I presume
Jun 21 22:02:57 <SpeedEvil> yes - through that offer
Jun 21 22:03:00 <DrGrov> Anyone else seen the phone becoming lagging after 2-3 days and need to do a reboot?
Jun 21 22:03:08 <SpeedEvil> DrGrov: top/ps/...
Jun 21 22:03:56 <DrGrov> So booting is almost "required" to perform once every 2-3 days?
Jun 21 22:04:01 <DrGrov> Any recommendations?
Jun 21 22:04:05 <SpeedEvil> I've not seen that
Jun 21 22:04:23 <DrGrov> To open Phone shortcut is hideously slow now
Jun 21 22:04:41 <Arkenoi> sometimes it is, sometimes it is not
Jun 21 22:04:52 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> okay, it seems like wget isn't obeying the proxy rules I put in... any ideas?
Jun 21 22:05:06 <Arkenoi> top does not show any high load for me
Jun 21 22:05:08 <DrGrov> I usually do it when I am charging the phone. Charge it and then turn it off and turn back on.
Jun 21 22:05:30 <Arkenoi> and memory consumption is normal as well, but the desktop becomes non-responsive after several days sometimes
Jun 21 22:05:53 <SpeedEvil> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: ah - sorry - unsure how to get it - I'd read the manpage
Jun 21 22:06:03 <SpeedEvil> Arkenoi: what about swap use
Jun 21 22:06:04 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> man page of what?
Jun 21 22:06:07 <DrGrov> Arkenoi: yes, I have that same problem
Jun 21 22:06:10 <ShadowJK> Usually what happens for me is that things I haven't used for a while are slow to respond the first time I use them again, but once I'm using them they become faster
Jun 21 22:06:11 <crashanddie> LMAO. "In the early days of television, it was widely believed that television sets weighed more when they were switched ON. This belief apparently originated from the manufacturer's owner manual, which quite thoroughly explained to "Turn the set off before attempting to move it.""
Jun 21 22:06:12 <SpeedEvil> wget - to see how proxy
Jun 21 22:06:54 <Arkenoi> SpeedEvil, normal too
Jun 21 22:07:00 <ShadowJK> http_proxy=http://ip.or.hostname.here:port/ wget http://www.something.com
Jun 21 22:09:37 <luke-jr> where do I get a fresh firmware image (PR 1.2?) for this thing before I mess with it?
Jun 21 22:10:19 <ShadowJK> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/
Jun 21 22:11:59 <ShadowJK> settings -> about product on your N900 for the imei that site asks for
Jun 21 22:13:43 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> okay it is somehow resolving my proxy, but still giving me the tmo homepage
Jun 21 22:14:04 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> why would it still redirect me to its own content after being able to resolve the rpxy
Jun 21 22:14:06 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> proxy
Jun 21 22:14:06 <ShadowJK> So tmo intercepts the proxy
Jun 21 22:14:23 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> how can I learn more about this?
Jun 21 22:14:28 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> just keep testing different ports?
Jun 21 22:15:41 <ShadowJK> Somehow I suspect there wouldn't be many holes to be found
Jun 21 22:15:57 <SpeedEvil> does it let you get https pages?
Jun 21 22:16:09 <SpeedEvil> For example - what happens if you go to https://www.paypal.com/
Jun 21 22:16:36 <lardman> hey ljsdofuynsdfufuh, I didn't have another pizza you'll be glad to hear ;)
Jun 21 22:16:57 <luke-jr> hmm, can I backup my current N900 OS? since I can't legally reverse engineer the ones on that site?
Jun 21 22:17:53 <ShadowJK> Well you can back it up, but you can't restore :-)
Jun 21 22:18:02 <luke-jr> that's fine I think
Jun 21 22:18:12 <luke-jr> don't need to restore to run objdump :p
Jun 21 22:18:30 <SpeedEvil> why not just rsync/cp
Jun 21 22:18:34 <ShadowJK> yeah
Jun 21 22:18:47 <SpeedEvil> rsync onto the mmc
Jun 21 22:19:05 <ShadowJK> /dev/mtd*ro for dump of the device, but it's not easy to extract stuff from it since it's ubifs
Jun 21 22:19:08 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: I don't have SSH access? :)
Jun 21 22:19:17 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> https doesn't seem to work either
Jun 21 22:19:33 <lardman> anyone used QSetting to store an array of data?
Jun 21 22:19:34 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: Why not?
Jun 21 22:19:35 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> though I had it for a second, but it had auto connected to wifi :[
Jun 21 22:19:40 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: dunno how
Jun 21 22:19:55 <ShadowJK> App Manager -> tap titlebar for the app-specific menu, pick Application Catalogues, enable maemo.org extras, install rsync and openssh
Jun 21 22:20:08 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: Setup wlan. Activate extras. Add 'ssh server and client' in HAM (it's one package)
Jun 21 22:20:23 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: Then you pick a password, and can just ssh in
Jun 21 22:21:24 <jacekowski> hgrrrr
Jun 21 22:21:24 <jacekowski> sbdmock
Jun 21 22:21:41 <jacekowski> why there is no option to configure any commands prerootstrap
Jun 21 22:22:30 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> SpeedEvil: tor has gotten around it a few times, but it is insanely slow - any idea how it can do it but why my proxy wouldn't?
Jun 21 22:23:12 <SpeedEvil> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: nope
Jun 21 22:23:41 <alludus> how i can get gkt on n900 so i can compile something :O
Jun 21 22:23:46 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> well, how does it intercept the proxy?
Jun 21 22:24:07 <jacekowski> luke-jr: as far as i know you can reverse engineer them
Jun 21 22:24:09 <pupnik> alludus: copy stuff over from the sdk
Jun 21 22:24:19 <alludus> oki
Jun 21 22:24:19 <jacekowski> luke-jr: it just violates the eula but that's different case
Jun 21 22:24:53 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> ShadowJK: any ideas?
Jun 21 22:24:54 <jacekowski> luke-jr: but i would just do tar with some options and dump everything to memory card or somewhere
Jun 21 22:24:59 <lcuk> damn
Jun 21 22:25:13 <ShadowJK> hm, no not really
Jun 21 22:25:15 <SpeedEvil> alludus: In principle, simply add the sdk repo, upgrade to 1.2 - if not already - then apt-get install build-essentials.
Jun 21 22:25:18 <lcuk> slider for camera cover borkened
Jun 21 22:25:32 <luke-jr> jacekowski: I don't want to violate the EULA
Jun 21 22:25:33 <alludus> i didd
Jun 21 22:25:50 <alludus> it but it doesnt get dependencies automatically :O
Jun 21 22:25:53 <ShadowJK> They probably have a firewall/router that redirects anything going out on port 80 or port 8080 to their own proxy server, which checks what kind of access you have
Jun 21 22:26:09 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> ShadowJK: well I'm using one of the ports reported to be open
Jun 21 22:26:13 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> and running a squid server
Jun 21 22:26:14 <SpeedEvil> alludus: In practice - it'd be wise to copy / to /home/user/chroot - or somewhere - then you just chroot into that dir - and then apt-get install build-essentials
Jun 21 22:26:23 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> because I know they block 80
Jun 21 22:26:25 <SpeedEvil> alludus: hen you don't have to worry about screwing up this system
Jun 21 22:26:26 <ShadowJK> ljsdofuynsdfufuh, which port?
Jun 21 22:26:45 <ShadowJK> because what it said about 8080 made it sound like it's redirected to their own servers :)
Jun 21 22:26:58 <alludus> SpeedEvil, thanks
Jun 21 22:27:13 <SpeedEvil> alludus: Of course - this will give you no libraries.
Jun 21 22:27:14 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I've basically tried all of the following: 25   110   143  465 587 TCP SMTP  over SSL993 TCP IMAP4  over SSL 995 TCP POP3  over SSL 8080 TCP
Jun 21 22:27:48 <SpeedEvil> alludus: So if you need to build something with ssl - you need to get openssl - nd build it.
Jun 21 22:27:57 <jacekowski> luke-jr: what are you trying to reverse engineer
Jun 21 22:28:06 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37887&page=3 well I'm kinda stuck after working on this for days - everyone in this thread said it worked
Jun 21 22:28:11 <alludus> ok
Jun 21 22:28:41 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> ShadowJK: sorry....messy copy/paste -almost all of those port numbers i tried though
Jun 21 22:28:57 <jacekowski> why scratchbox is failing on packages installations
Jun 21 22:29:01 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> Ive used the proxy via wifi on the n900 and another box to make sure it works properly too
Jun 21 22:29:04 <jacekowski> and its never the same package
Jun 21 22:29:06 <jacekowski> it's random one
Jun 21 22:29:20 <jacekowski> only constant thing is that it will always fail
Jun 21 22:29:39 <jacekowski> and sbdmock isn't helpfull in working around it
Jun 21 22:29:42 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: Have you overclocked your computer?
Jun 21 22:29:44 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 21 22:29:50 <jacekowski> no
Jun 21 22:29:55 <jacekowski> it's only scratchbox
Jun 21 22:29:59 <jacekowski> and java
Jun 21 22:30:09 <jacekowski> well, java just get's killed by grsec
Jun 21 22:36:01 <nextime> ljsdofuynsdfufuh there isn't any good unlimited internet plan on us?
Jun 21 22:36:47 <nextime> ( just curious about that )
Jun 21 22:37:17 <luke-jr> nextime: no
Jun 21 22:37:34 <nextime> sad
Jun 21 22:37:43 <luke-jr> nextime: in Nebraska, there's no N900-compatible 3G at all
Jun 21 22:37:52 <nextime> this make devices like n900 and others less usefull
Jun 21 22:38:23 <nextime> even if maybe there is a good wifi coverage in major towns
Jun 21 22:39:27 <nextime> here there is no wifi coverage at all ( unless you crack private wep/wap keys ) cause of law regulations on hot-spots
Jun 21 22:39:42 <nextime> but we have good hsdpa connection plans
Jun 21 22:40:35 * lcuk has never superglued an n900 before
Jun 21 22:40:52 <pupnik> what country nextime
Jun 21 22:40:58 <nextime> pupnik : italy
Jun 21 22:41:09 <pupnik> similar situation in germany
Jun 21 22:42:21 <nextime> pupnik : even in germany there is the anti-terrorism law that say you simply can't expose an open wifi without authenticating clients?
Jun 21 22:43:04 <jacekowski> bullshit
Jun 21 22:43:09 <jacekowski> it's not anti terrorism
Jun 21 22:43:34 <pupnik> i'm not sure of the exact legal situation
Jun 21 22:43:44 <nextime> jacekowski : yes, it isn't anti-terrorism for real, but it is done officially for anti-terrorism and inserted in a anti-terrorism law package
Jun 21 22:44:26 <nextime> pupnik : we have a law called "Pisani's law" from the name of the minister that invented it
Jun 21 22:44:37 <pupnik> sinister minister
Jun 21 22:44:47 <nextime> it is a large package for anti-terrorism measure adpted after 2001
Jun 21 22:45:10 <nextime> with many things AND also laws for wifi and internet cafe'
Jun 21 22:45:56 <jacekowski> i have open wifi for everybody to use
Jun 21 22:46:02 <nextime> you can of course use wifi, but you need to register real name surname and other data with valid legal identity documents
Jun 21 22:46:09 <jacekowski> and only my trafic is encrypted
Jun 21 22:46:15 <nextime> and/or use it only for private use
Jun 21 22:46:23 <nextime> jacekowski : you can't do this in italy
Jun 21 22:46:57 <nextime> anyway, we have 99% of territory covered by hsdpa  ( even third generation hsdpa at 28.2 megs for the 50% )
Jun 21 22:47:07 <nextime> and good plans for connection
Jun 21 22:47:32 <nextime> ( like flat for 1 euro/day only for the days you use it )
Jun 21 22:48:24 <jacekowski> nextime: i can't do it here
Jun 21 22:48:39 <jacekowski> legally
Jun 21 22:49:51 <ptl> jacekowski: hi, the other day I asked you some question, are you still hosting chromium for the N900?
Jun 21 22:49:56 <nextime> jacekowski : even in italy some people do it. I'm one of those think that even if a law is wrong you need to respect it and maybe try to change it legally :)
Jun 21 22:51:40 <jacekowski> ptl: well, i'm configuring autobuilder on my machine
Jun 21 22:51:44 <jacekowski> ptl: and i'll host it then
Jun 21 22:52:07 <ptl> jacekowski: oh, nice to know... it was too bad that Nokia stopped hosting chromium for so little.
Jun 21 22:52:52 <nextime> jacekowski : maybe in future you can take a look to iron instead (or in addition to ) chrome?
Jun 21 22:52:54 <nextime> ops
Jun 21 22:52:58 <nextime> chromium
Jun 21 22:53:52 <jacekowski> nextime: why?
Jun 21 22:54:09 <jacekowski> i don't care about anonimity
Jun 21 22:54:19 <jacekowski> well, i'm against anonimity in internet
Jun 21 22:54:43 <lcuk> what about in your home?
Jun 21 22:55:00 <nextime> jacekowski : i'm not against anonimity, but it isn't about anonimity, it is about privacy
Jun 21 22:55:05 <nextime> they are different things
Jun 21 22:55:06 <jacekowski> anonimity != privacy
Jun 21 22:55:18 <pupnik> .
Jun 21 22:55:33 <nextime> jacekowski: tell to google what you see isn't a good thing in my personal opinion
Jun 21 22:55:44 <lcuk> good point, i shouldnt post after working with superglue
Jun 21 22:56:01 <nextime> i even have google-analitycs and other domains pointing on 127.0.0.1 on my dns :)
Jun 21 22:56:04 <jacekowski> well, chromium isn't sharing any excessive amount of information
Jun 21 22:56:39 <nextime> jacekowski : chromium is just chrome recompiled, it has many bad (in the point of view of privacy ) things
Jun 21 22:57:38 <nextime> of course this is *my* opinion, you are free to use what you want :)
Jun 21 22:58:07 <jacekowski> nextime: no it isn't
Jun 21 22:58:28 <jacekowski> nextime: chromium doesn't have all binary privacy invading modules
Jun 21 22:59:05 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> fuck, I'd pay whomever figures this out for me
Jun 21 22:59:20 <lardman> night all
Jun 21 22:59:21 <pyther24> What's wrong?
Jun 21 22:59:29 <pyther24> ljsdofuynsdfufuh, ^^
Jun 21 22:59:42 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I already put 100$ on the sidekick prepaid because a tmo rep convinced me that the sidekick plan would work for any smart phone - and that i get the most free minutes if i put 100$ on at once
Jun 21 23:00:06 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> but their official story now is that the sidekick plan only works with the sidekick
Jun 21 23:00:08 <jacekowski> 30-94-55 26315860
Jun 21 23:00:13 <SpeedEvil> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Ow.
Jun 21 23:00:20 <jacekowski> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: ^ and what do youneed
Jun 21 23:00:36 <SpeedEvil> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: I would suggest you contact them, make a formal complaint that you were mis-sold the plan.
Jun 21 23:00:37 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> some people on the forum said that they got proxies working so that they can use port 80 et al
Jun 21 23:00:53 <jacekowski> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: well, sidekick is piece of crap
Jun 21 23:00:59 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I have, they say there is nothing they can do - and that their managers have  no more authority to fix it than they do
Jun 21 23:01:04 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, the plan will have terms and written things, buyer beware?
Jun 21 23:01:06 <jacekowski> mobile phone market in usa is like non existient
Jun 21 23:01:16 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> but "the sidekick plan" is the only prepaid data plan ther eis
Jun 21 23:01:24 <SpeedEvil> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Do they have recordings of the call?
Jun 21 23:01:33 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I guess
Jun 21 23:01:38 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: that's a thing in the UK
Jun 21 23:01:42 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> but still, I've spent too much time and money on this already
Jun 21 23:01:43 <jacekowski> you can always cancel
Jun 21 23:01:48 <jacekowski> and tell them to fuck off
Jun 21 23:01:59 <jacekowski> you don't have to prove to them that you were missold
Jun 21 23:02:00 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> and I've been paying for this so-called "data" service - despite the fact that it isnt really data
Jun 21 23:02:06 <lcuk> "you sold me a sidekick plan and i havent even got a sidekick"
Jun 21 23:02:07 <nextime> correct me if i'mwrong: in US you can pay even for *received* sms, isn't true?
Jun 21 23:02:08 <jacekowski> you can cancel just because you want to cancel
Jun 21 23:02:09 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> when I start explaining in detail they just hang up
Jun 21 23:02:17 <SpeedEvil> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: I would suggest you next approach your local consumer rights organisation - better buisness bureau?
Jun 21 23:02:31 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: Not strictly true - but generally, so.
Jun 21 23:02:43 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37887&page=3 people got it to work here though
Jun 21 23:02:59 <jacekowski> nextime: i bought at&t prepaid and 5 minutes of internet browsing costed me $100 + tax
Jun 21 23:03:01 <SpeedEvil> 'people got it to work' does not mean it will continue working
Jun 21 23:03:05 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> but I've got a squid server tested and everything and I can't see to get it to work at all
Jun 21 23:03:07 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: Ow.
Jun 21 23:03:35 <nextime> jacekowski : it's chap :)
Jun 21 23:03:37 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: i went to at&t shop to buy local prepaid as it's ussualy cheapest thing to do
Jun 21 23:03:39 <nextime> chEap
Jun 21 23:03:44 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> so that is what I need help with
Jun 21 23:03:53 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: so she sold me $100 pre-paid
Jun 21 23:04:14 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: for which i had to pay $100 + sales tax so it worked out at $115
Jun 21 23:04:24 <SpeedEvil> In the UK, things have gotten somewhat better since I last looked. 1 month rolling contract internet can be gotten at 5 quid per month. 'unlimited'.
Jun 21 23:04:32 <SpeedEvil> (3)
Jun 21 23:04:42 <jacekowski> hmmm
Jun 21 23:04:45 <jacekowski> £5 that's nice
Jun 21 23:04:50 <nextime> ljsdofuynsdfufuh : if you have a squid server on your server, can't you tunnel your data with a vpn instead of use a proxy?
Jun 21 23:04:52 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> jacekowski: the fact that people like us, who really understand technology like this, can be tricked consistently proves the disingenuousness of service providers plans
Jun 21 23:04:53 <jacekowski> 3 months ago it was £10
Jun 21 23:05:03 <lcuk> ljsdofuynsdfufuh, with a proxy you will ALWAYS be looking for a new proxies?
Jun 21 23:05:12 <lcuk> or are you planning on hosting your own
Jun 21 23:05:16 <lcuk> on your home server
Jun 21 23:05:17 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I made my own lcuk
Jun 21 23:05:29 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> it works well, but somehow tmo is still redirecting me
Jun 21 23:05:31 <SpeedEvil> Are you sure your proxy can be connected to externally?
Jun 21 23:05:51 <SpeedEvil> you may also need to tunnel the DNS
Jun 21 23:06:17 <SpeedEvil> As for example - they get a request for www.google.com - and they serve up the DNS for their NOC
Jun 21 23:06:30 <nextime> ljsdofuynsdfufuh : in your situation i think i will do an openvpn tunnel and redirect my default gateway inside the tunnel
Jun 21 23:06:40 <nextime> so, it will work and also i get encrypted :)
Jun 21 23:06:45 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> so it resolves my proxies ip, but then somehow still redicts me to their t-zones shit
Jun 21 23:06:50 <lcuk> did they only close off port 80?
Jun 21 23:07:01 <pyther24> ljsdofuynsdfufuh, likely dns redirect of some type
Jun 21 23:07:05 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> SpeedEvil: I've tested the proxy with n900 wifi and another box and it works fine
Jun 21 23:07:06 <SpeedEvil> Does it resolve the proxy IP correctly?
Jun 21 23:07:12 <lcuk> is it your home server that is downloading the tzones
Jun 21 23:07:15 <lcuk> or direct from phone
Jun 21 23:08:07 <lcuk> cos that would answer the dns thing -> if its from home then dns is redirected - if its from phone, the ports are still being blocked
Jun 21 23:08:23 <lcuk> but really thats their network
Jun 21 23:08:31 <lcuk> and their contract
Jun 21 23:09:13 <midas__> hi there
Jun 21 23:09:30 <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300435794116&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNASIF:US:1123
Jun 21 23:09:33 <SpeedEvil> argh
Jun 21 23:10:18 <midas__> i have a nice one. via the filebrowser i can see my pictures. but when i press pictures it doesnt show anything..
Jun 21 23:11:10 <SpeedEvil> tracker is broken.
Jun 21 23:11:23 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> Speed, it actually resolves the ip but then somehow still sends me the tzones website when i try any domain
Jun 21 23:11:27 <SpeedEvil> I would suggest nuking the tracker databases.
Jun 21 23:11:53 <SpeedEvil> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Ok - you need to work out what's happening - it's one of several things.
Jun 21 23:11:55 <midas__> any tips on how?
Jun 21 23:12:24 <SpeedEvil> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: A) It's lying about the DNS, and pointing you to their own server, and your proxy server is then connecting to that.
Jun 21 23:12:50 <SpeedEvil> B) It's not lying about the DNS, and for some reason you're not making the connection to your proxy server - but being man-in-the-middled.
Jun 21 23:13:00 <SpeedEvil> C) something else.
Jun 21 23:13:04 <SpeedEvil> D) Underpants.
Jun 21 23:13:15 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I just tried an ip
Jun 21 23:13:17 <SpeedEvil> Inspect the logs on the proxy server.
Jun 21 23:13:21 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> instead of domain
Jun 21 23:13:23 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> same thing
Jun 21 23:13:31 <SpeedEvil> Is it in fact connecting to the proxy server from the phone
Jun 21 23:13:38 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> logs show no connections from the 3g
Jun 21 23:13:51 <lcuk> midas__, he tracker database can be reset by opening up "X Terminal" and typing "tracker-processes -r", then hitting enter.   afaik
Jun 21 23:14:10 * MohammadAG welcomes himself back
Jun 21 23:14:29 <MohammadAG> ljsdofuynsdfufuh, how exactly do you remember your nick...
Jun 21 23:14:36 <midas__> lcuk: thanks. gonna try that
Jun 21 23:14:49 <SpeedEvil> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: what happens if you go to https://64.4.241.33/ - in the browser?
Jun 21 23:15:01 <lcuk> MohammadAG, same way everyone else does
Jun 21 23:15:01 <SpeedEvil> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: It should say 'untrusted site/broken cert'
Jun 21 23:15:11 <SpeedEvil> It's a paypal server
Jun 21 23:15:15 <MohammadAG> lcuk, I got you bacon
Jun 21 23:15:25 <lcuk> :D rly?
Jun 21 23:15:36 <MohammadAG> yeah :D
Jun 21 23:16:27 <lcuk> i bet you havent got a replacement back cover for 900 have you :p
Jun 21 23:16:37 <midas__> seems to work lcuk !
Jun 21 23:16:42 <lcuk> the spring sprung through the superglue <@>
Jun 21 23:16:55 <lcuk> midas__, good !
Jun 21 23:16:57 <MohammadAG> lcuk, why should I :)
Jun 21 23:17:01 <nextime> thanks god to give us a tab key :D
Jun 21 23:17:21 * lcuk looks @ n900 and curses nextime 
Jun 21 23:17:34 <midas__> god had nothing to do with it
Jun 21 23:17:52 <nextime> lcuk : on n900 irssi client/x-terminal it is emulated on the touch screen
Jun 21 23:17:54 <nextime> :P
Jun 21 23:17:58 * MohammadAG suggest remapping
Jun 21 23:18:02 <MohammadAG> suggests*
Jun 21 23:18:12 <lcuk> *rapping
Jun 21 23:18:17 * MohammadAG needs a new keyboard
Jun 21 23:18:42 <lcuk> theres so much qt code
Jun 21 23:19:06 <lcuk> that doesnt do what i expect
Jun 21 23:19:10 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> SpeedEvil: I think B) man-in-the-middled is the most fitting of the evidence
Jun 21 23:19:14 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> what is the next thing to try?
Jun 21 23:19:19 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> that didn't connect btw
Jun 21 23:19:24 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> (the ip)
Jun 21 23:20:00 <MohammadAG> lcuk, told you Qt was evil.
Jun 21 23:20:19 <SpeedEvil> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: In what way diddn't it connect?
Jun 21 23:20:21 <lcuk> lol
Jun 21 23:20:44 <SpeedEvil> ljsdofuynsdfufuh: I mean - don't try to go through the proxy - go directly to that site
Jun 21 23:21:07 <midas__> yay!
Jun 21 23:21:09 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> it was just blocked
Jun 21 23:21:18 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> I tried in cmdline "request to proxy sent" awaiting respond using wget
Jun 21 23:21:21 <SpeedEvil> If connecting to the https port on payals servers doesn't work - the chance of anything else working is vanishingly small IMO
Jun 21 23:21:28 <SpeedEvil> not proxy
Jun 21 23:21:29 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> also, I don't understand what the settings in connection do
Jun 21 23:21:29 <SpeedEvil> direct
Jun 21 23:21:36 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> in advanced
Jun 21 23:21:51 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> there is "proxies" which is what I'm using, and "ip addresses"
Jun 21 23:22:11 <midas__> use a ssl tunnel to route your own traffic?
Jun 21 23:22:14 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> which i havent messed with, but it has two options: auto-retreive ip addresses and auto-retreive dns -should I try these?
Jun 21 23:22:19 <midas__> ssh*
Jun 21 23:24:16 * nextime suggest openvpn
Jun 21 23:25:28 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> SpeedEvil: I export the proxy, wget the paypal IP, then it says it is getting a file called index.html.1, then it says connected to my proxy server, then it says proxy request sent awaiting response
Jun 21 23:26:44 <SpeedEvil> IP addresses are - generally - for static IPs
Jun 21 23:26:54 <SpeedEvil> Don't set them at all
Jun 21 23:27:12 <SpeedEvil> unset proxies
Jun 21 23:27:25 <SpeedEvil> now try connecting without a proxy to the above site - paypals https port
Jun 21 23:27:33 <SpeedEvil> with the browser
Jun 21 23:27:48 <SpeedEvil> that should give you a certificate error - saying that the certificate is untrusted
Jun 21 23:27:58 <SpeedEvil> If you can make a https connection to that server.
Jun 21 23:28:19 <SpeedEvil> If you cannot, it'll either time out, or be redirected to the ISPs servers.
Jun 21 23:28:24 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> wait, don't set any proxies in the tmo connect pref?
Jun 21 23:28:28 <SpeedEvil> no
Jun 21 23:28:38 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> they block port 80, thought that was the whole point
Jun 21 23:28:44 <SpeedEvil> See what's happening without the proxy - it's obscuring things at this point
Jun 21 23:29:13 <SpeedEvil> They may not block https - as you fundamentally can't man-in-the-middle a https connection.
Jun 21 23:29:29 <SpeedEvil> (and have it work, without munging the certificates on the host)
Jun 21 23:29:55 <MohammadAG> hah! Freenode crashed
Jun 21 23:30:01 <MohammadAG> <3 it when that happens
Jun 21 23:30:55 <SpeedEvil> Don't worry - you're on the good half.
Jun 21 23:31:16 <SpeedEvil> http://www.thinkgeek.com/blog/2010/06/officially-our-bestever-cease.html :)
Jun 21 23:34:09 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> how do i type a tilde on the n900?
Jun 21 23:34:19 <MohammadAG> a what?
Jun 21 23:34:20 <Mousey> just hit ~
Jun 21 23:34:41 <MohammadAG> Blue arrow + CTRL (Sym)
Jun 21 23:36:23 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> aww  shanpz
Jun 21 23:38:02 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> ...working on it SpeedEvil, I can't see what is going on in fennec, but it is obvious that when I try to visit that ip on the cmdline with wget it still tries to use my proxy for some reason, maybe i need to power cycle
Jun 21 23:38:32 <Lullen> I got my program(qexercise) installed in /usr/local/bin/qexercise. What I am trying to do is try to look if there is a folder(wich the program should have made) with the x-terminal but it wont let me enter the folder... I have tried as root too. How do I get inside the folder?
Jun 21 23:39:57 <lcuk> obi wan: "thats probably not the folder you are looking for"
Jun 21 23:41:11 <SpeedEvil> ar eyou root?
Jun 21 23:41:29 <Lullen> what folder do I look for then? I got the path by using "qDebug() << QApplication::applicationFilePath ();"
Jun 21 23:41:33 <Lullen> yes
Jun 21 23:41:54 <lcuk> thats the path to the binary
Jun 21 23:42:01 <lcuk> where it stores its data is different
Jun 21 23:42:08 <Lullen> where should that be?
Jun 21 23:42:50 <lcuk> at a guess /home/user/qexercise or similar
Jun 21 23:43:15 <Lullen> okey thanks
Jun 21 23:45:38 <lcuk> Lullen, which data specifically are you looking for
Jun 21 23:46:16 <Lullen> I am not looking for any data, I am now saving all my files at MyDocs
Jun 21 23:46:31 <Lullen> So I need to move it to a proper place
Jun 21 23:46:46 <lcuk> because it seems to store some of its info in cml files on the root of MyDocs  (/home/user/MyDocs/program.xml exercises.xml settings.xml
Jun 21 23:46:54 <lcuk> history.xml
Jun 21 23:47:05 <lcuk> xml ^
Jun 21 23:47:35 <Lullen> yeah thats what I am fixing
Jun 21 23:47:41 <MohammadAG> heh, MyDocs is far from being proper :)
Jun 21 23:47:50 <Lullen> ye I know :)
Jun 21 23:48:04 <lcuk> ahh Lullen you are the developer?
Jun 21 23:48:07 <Lullen> yes
Jun 21 23:48:13 <MohammadAG> lcuk, so slow :)
Jun 21 23:48:13 <lcuk> cool!
Jun 21 23:48:20 <Lullen> haha
Jun 21 23:48:42 <Lullen> So I should store it in /home/user/qexercise?
Jun 21 23:48:53 * MohammadAG suggests /home/user/.qexercise
Jun 21 23:48:56 <lcuk> /home/user/.qexercise would be the normal folder then :P but you should pick up the /home/user part dynamically
Jun 21 23:49:16 <Lullen> how do I do that?
Jun 21 23:49:20 <lcuk> because when people on different OSes pickup your app (meego) the path will be different
Jun 21 23:49:28 <lcuk> im not sure atm in qt
Jun 21 23:49:40 <lcuk> it will be available
Jun 21 23:49:46 <lcuk> i just dunno how
Jun 21 23:49:51 * MohammadAG suggests gexercise,
Jun 21 23:50:03 * MohammadAG starts an anti-Qt campaign
Jun 21 23:50:11 <Lullen> haha
Jun 21 23:50:11 <ljsdofuynsdfufuh> does google voice let anyone call you and visa versa (like skype in/out)?
Jun 21 23:50:18 <SpeedEvil> ncursexercise.
Jun 21 23:51:51 <lcuk> MohammadAG, i read his initial request to be that he had something installed - im bedding soon im tired
Jun 21 23:52:31 <Lullen> sleep?! now+!
Jun 21 23:52:32 <Lullen> ?!
Jun 21 23:53:39 <lcuk> !! indeed but i dozed off earlier
Jun 21 23:54:19 <Lullen> Not OK, you should be up helping me
Jun 21 23:56:13 <lcuk> *grin*
Jun 21 23:56:21 <Lullen> or Meego is not out yet, why care about it? I got enough problems as it is :)
Jun 21 23:56:51 <lcuk> sure Lullen but thinking carefully and spending a little extra time now will save you the trouble in future
Jun 21 23:56:58 <lcuk> and its not just for meego
Jun 21 23:57:30 <MohammadAG51> in short, don't use hardcoded crap
Jun 21 23:57:31 <lcuk> because you have written your app in qt - if you are inside its walled garden you should be able to just use it on symbian for instance
Jun 21 23:57:33 <MohammadAG51> :)
Jun 21 23:57:41 <lcuk> lol
Jun 21 23:59:03 <Lullen> yeah I know but I need to get it working and I will probebly have to edit it when I optify it, I guess...
Jun 21 23:59:06 <Lullen> or?
Jun 22 00:00:16 <Lullen> Well another problem is that the folder does not get created
Jun 22 00:01:21 <MohammadAG51> mkdir ftw
Jun 22 00:01:24 <lcuk> Lullen, when you install the application
Jun 22 00:01:27 * MohammadAG51 is off to bed
Jun 22 00:01:34 <lcuk> there is no way of knowing which user will be running it
Jun 22 00:01:58 <lcuk> on a desktop pc, your app might be run be /home/lullen   /home/gary  /home/mohammad etc
Jun 22 00:02:03 <lcuk> me too
Jun 22 00:02:07 <lcuk> gnite \o
Jun 22 00:02:20 <MohammadAG51> night :)
Jun 22 00:02:37 <Lullen> night
Jun 22 00:02:41 <MohammadAG51> how'd you know my username was mohammad
Jun 22 00:02:43 <MohammadAG51> :P
Jun 22 00:03:09 <Lullen> that one was hard I guess
Jun 22 00:04:07 <MohammadAG51> indeed :D
Jun 22 00:04:15 <MohammadAG51> o/
Jun 22 00:17:04 <Lullen> It is ok to save a exported file to MyDocs right?
Jun 22 00:31:24 <DocScrutinizer51> ~botsnack
Jun 22 00:31:24 <infobot> :), DocScrutinizer51
Jun 22 00:31:52 <Lullen> Well bed is calling!
Jun 22 00:31:59 <Lullen> Bye
Jun 22 00:41:07 <jrayhawk> What's needed for padsp or aoss to work in a chroot on an N900?
Jun 22 00:41:48 <jrayhawk> I've got /var/run/pulse, /tmp, /home/user, and /dev bindmounted over into it.
Jun 22 00:42:22 <jrayhawk> And a proper dsp0 entry for aoss in asound.conf.
Jun 22 00:43:30 <jrayhawk> Ah, I see, mismatched pulseaudio versions were my problem for aoss, still not sure why padsp doesn't work...
Jun 22 00:44:09 <jrayhawk> I guess there's no libpulsedsp.so in maemo, so I can't copy that version over.
Jun 22 00:44:16 <jrayhawk> I guess aoss is good enough for me.
Jun 22 00:54:05 <asj> jrayhawk: strace can sometimes be useful for that
Jun 22 00:55:04 <jrayhawk> Yeah, that helped a lot.
Jun 22 00:56:55 <jrayhawk> I'm pretty sure "aoss works if you copy over the maemo pulseaudio library versions, padsp might work if you managed to find the right version of libpulsedsp.so and get it compiled, but aoss involves less work" is the conclusion to this
Jun 22 00:57:08 <DocScrutinizer> jrayhawk: forget OSS
Jun 22 00:57:19 <DocScrutinizer> forget AOSS
Jun 22 00:58:22 <jrayhawk> Why yes, just erase all of history, surely nothing useful happened before whatever the latest generation of technology is. Good advice!
Jun 22 00:58:32 <DocScrutinizer> well, aoss <my-app>   should 'jus work'
Jun 22 00:59:10 <DocScrutinizer> and believe me I'm not a PA fanboy :-)
Jun 22 01:01:12 <ptl> why does pulseaudio receive so much disdain? It seems nice to me
Jun 22 01:02:33 <DocScrutinizer> moin raster
Jun 22 01:03:51 <DocScrutinizer> PA is a crap invented by sb who wasn't able t keep the span of attentiveness to understand the ALSA docs
Jun 22 01:04:18 <raster> DocScrutinizer: docz!
Jun 22 01:04:26 <DocScrutinizer> rasterz
Jun 22 01:05:24 <puzzled> hi
Jun 22 01:05:26 <DocScrutinizer> raster: kill PA, kill ALSA, make your API the default worldwide! ;-D
Jun 22 01:06:07 <raster> DocScrutinizer: alsa's api isnt the nicest
Jun 22 01:06:24 <raster> i spent some time with it a bit ago porting quake3 to alsa
Jun 22 01:06:31 <raster> well doing a port - then i found someone else did one
Jun 22 01:06:51 <asj> I don't understand why audio on all platforms is so hard to get right.  Just the other I had to use a windows laptop, queued  up some music using a USB headset.  Went to the show, plugged into main audio out.  Audio fail.  It didnt switch away from the non-existant usb headset.
Jun 22 01:07:00 <DocScrutinizer> anyway my muffins don't come in via chimney, and I need to have a rest to sit an the street begging tomorrow. So night folks
Jun 22 01:15:36 <djkrikke> Hi guys, I made a script that checks the if-down, if I lose my wlan connection, I want the device to automatically connect to edge/3G
Jun 22 01:16:15 <djkrikke> problem is that they run standalone, but not in if-down.d
Jun 22 01:16:21 <jrayhawk> asj: "right" is ambiguous: http://www.the-source.com/2010/05/pulseaudio-and-jack/
Jun 22 01:16:55 <djkrikke> is there a reason why dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.icd /com/nokia/icd com.nokia.icd.connect string:"[ANY]" uint32:0 may not work in if-down.d?
Jun 22 01:17:14 <djkrikke> (if I run a bash script the second after I disconnect, so if goes down, it does work..)
Jun 22 01:18:11 <asj> jrayhawk: I prefer to change ambiguous to ambitious :)  nice table though
Jun 22 01:19:15 <DocScrutinizer> runstandalone.sh
Jun 22 01:19:44 <DocScrutinizer> night peeps
Jun 22 01:19:59 <djkrikke> hello :)
Jun 22 01:21:21 <djkrikke> hmm DocScrutinizer, runstandalone doesn't seem to fix it
Jun 22 01:24:37 <djkrikke> it does work again when just typing in the terminal
Jun 22 01:24:44 <djkrikke> what may be a reason for this behavior?
Jun 22 01:26:28 <jrayhawk> http://www.omgwallhack.org/media/img/dump/why-alsa-sucks.png ALSA also has its issues
Jun 22 01:26:47 <djkrikke> DocScrutinizer: any idea?
Jun 22 01:29:55 <jrayhawk> I think most people like pulseaudio for providing a safe, simple way of doing per-application sound settings and having multiplexing on by default, whereas the ALSA way is error prone, arcane, and tries to do as little as possible by default.
Jun 22 01:32:08 <jrayhawk> People who make wise consumer hardware purchasing decisions tend not to have dmix and mixer problems because the hardware takes care of that for them.
Jun 22 01:33:42 <DocScrutinizer> hahahahahaha
Jun 22 01:33:55 <jrayhawk> People on the low end (who buy the most underfeatured hardware they can find) and high end (who buying most overfeatured hardware they can find) both wind up with problems.
Jun 22 01:34:13 <jrayhawk> PulseAudio and Jack are attempts to smooth over those issues for those groups, respectively.
Jun 22 01:34:48 <DocScrutinizer> PA is an attempt to evade the necessity to read ALSA dics
Jun 22 01:35:20 <jrayhawk> I've made complex chained asoundrc files. ALSA is very, very brittle and very very unpleasant to work with.
Jun 22 01:36:13 <DocScrutinizer> so what? switch to PA which has tons of bugs???
Jun 22 01:36:46 <luke-jr> lucky, flasher 3.0 works on N900
Jun 22 01:36:50 <jrayhawk> I admittedly have never played with PA, so I have no idea how bad it is, but from what I've seen of others, many common things you'd want to do are less horrible.
Jun 22 01:36:59 * luke-jr stares at Nokia for failing to release a 64-bit 3.5
Jun 22 01:38:04 <DocScrutinizer> jrayhawk: admitted, but on ALSA they just work - once you featured to setup correctly. And GOOD NIGHT EVERYBODY
Jun 22 01:38:37 <jrayhawk> Not for me. Seems like half of the operations I wanted to chain were just not supported by libasound.
Jun 22 01:39:09 <DocScrutinizer> thinks about my prev statement
Jun 22 01:39:23 <DocScrutinizer> then you'll prolly find the solution
Jun 22 01:39:29 <DocScrutinizer> afk
Jun 22 01:41:57 <jrayhawk> Or, rather, the individual operations I wanted to chain would work, but the chaining itself was only compatible with some operations. Other just spit out bizarre error messages and bad results.
Jun 22 01:43:33 <DocScrutinizer> well, on alsa eben a close() may fail. You got to know your way around
Jun 22 01:44:07 <DocScrutinizer> on PA there is no 'way around'
Jun 22 01:44:18 <jrayhawk> This is just the configuration interface. I have never even touched the programming interface.
Jun 22 01:44:26 <jrayhawk> I like my sanity!
Jun 22 01:44:41 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
Jun 22 01:44:47 <DocScrutinizer> and off
Jun 22 02:07:07 <those> ;] jrayhawk
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 22 02:59:56 2010