**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 28 02:59:57 2010
Jun 28 03:13:03 <Mr_Vu> holaaaa
Jun 28 03:13:08 <Mr_Vu> como estan?
Jun 28 03:32:51 <pyther> I want to copy all my music to my device what is the bestway to do this?
Jun 28 03:33:55 <SpeedEvil> what form is your music in? Wax cylinders, or sheet music?
Jun 28 03:34:04 <pyther> SpeedEvil: mp3 and ogg
Jun 28 03:34:06 <hardaker> usb cable; though over the air will work too.
Jun 28 03:34:12 <hardaker> usb cable is faster for that much data.
Jun 28 03:34:25 <pyther> hardaker: how would I do it over the air?
Jun 28 03:34:30 <pyther> with ssh?
Jun 28 03:34:34 <hardaker> yep.
Jun 28 03:34:48 <hardaker> (or rsync if you need to match it up later again)
Jun 28 03:35:00 <hardaker> (which is really rsync over ssh)
Jun 28 03:35:03 <pyther> and how would I make it so the user is set to 'user'
Jun 28 03:35:09 <SpeedEvil> doesn't matter
Jun 28 03:35:13 <SpeedEvil> mydocs is vfat
Jun 28 03:35:17 <SpeedEvil> it does not support users
Jun 28 03:35:17 <pyther> ahh ok
Jun 28 03:35:23 <pyther> that is cool
Jun 28 03:35:32 <SpeedEvil> It's really not.
Jun 28 03:35:41 <asj> pyther: I hope you're not moving gigs and gigs ota
Jun 28 03:36:04 <pyther> asj: I'm gonna hook up the usb cable for the inital transfer
Jun 28 03:36:16 <pyther> where should I put the music? MyDocs/.sounds?
Jun 28 03:36:30 <asj> I do MyDocs/Music
Jun 28 03:36:53 <pyther> asj: can I point the music player there?
Jun 28 03:37:22 <asj> I beleive it searches then entire mmc
Jun 28 03:37:48 <pyther> ahh okay cool
Jun 28 03:38:52 <luke-jr> [22:35:32] <SpeedEvil> It's really not.
Jun 28 03:38:53 <luke-jr> lol
Jun 28 03:41:20 <pyther> thanks now time to rsync the collection
Jun 28 03:42:31 <pyther> rsync will work great because if I delete music from my device it'll also delete it from my computer and vice versa
Jun 28 03:42:54 <hardaker> I'm always tempted to reformat the mmc to something other than vfat.  it's not like I ever connect the device to something that wouldn't undertand it.
Jun 28 03:44:44 <RST38h> moo all
Jun 28 03:45:18 <RST38h> hardaker: the wear leveling algorithms inside the card's controller are usually optimized for vfat
Jun 28 03:46:02 <SpeedEvil> [[citation needed]]
Jun 28 03:46:32 <SpeedEvil> In principle, nokia might actually be able to extract more details on this.
Jun 28 03:46:45 <SpeedEvil> but...
Jun 28 03:47:09 <hardaker> RST38h: Ah, that's where the stupidity lies.  sigh.
Jun 28 03:47:17 <pyther> can the media player use files on the mmc and sd card at the same time
Jun 28 03:47:47 <SpeedEvil> no.
Jun 28 03:47:53 <SpeedEvil> It can only play one file at once.
Jun 28 03:48:01 <pyther> but can it index both
Jun 28 03:48:15 <pyther> so music from the mmc and ssd will be in the music database
Jun 28 03:48:19 <SpeedEvil> the media player does not touch files
Jun 28 03:48:26 <SpeedEvil> at least that's the concept
Jun 28 03:48:33 <SpeedEvil> it only looks at the tracker database
Jun 28 03:48:51 <SpeedEvil> It can also be passed filenames, but tha'ts not how the 'browse' functions work.
Jun 28 03:49:02 <SpeedEvil> There is no way to browse a directory say.
Jun 28 03:49:07 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: there's a nice long writeup in LKML somewhere on flash cards and vfat
Jun 28 03:49:22 <pyther> mmc: Three Days Grace
Jun 28 03:49:22 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: basically, if the flash card thinks you're using vfat, it will pre-clear blocks that are marked as deleted
Jun 28 03:49:27 <pyther> sd: Linkin Park
Jun 28 03:49:31 <luke-jr> making the wear-levelling more effective
Jun 28 03:49:43 <pyther> now will the media player show both 3 days grace and linkin park in the browse screen?
Jun 28 03:50:59 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: I linked to that - as far as I can see - that's speculative.
Jun 28 03:51:27 <SpeedEvil> dunno
Jun 28 03:51:33 <SpeedEvil> pyther: oh
Jun 28 03:51:38 <SpeedEvil> pyther: It doesn't work like that
Jun 28 03:51:49 <SpeedEvil> The tracker scans all filesystems it's been told to.
Jun 28 03:52:06 <SpeedEvil> It then bundles these up into lists of albums or tracks.
Jun 28 03:52:13 <SpeedEvil> The media player then shows these.
Jun 28 03:52:24 <SpeedEvil> It doesn't make any difference at all where they are
Jun 28 03:52:32 <pyther> ok, so then does the tracker scan the sd card? If not is it possible to make the tracker scan the card?
Jun 28 03:53:01 <SpeedEvil> Yes, and yes.
Jun 28 03:53:14 <pyther> sweet
Jun 28 03:54:33 <brolin_empey1> Any ideas why I cannot get a reliable wireless LAN connection for my N900 with my Siemens SE567 (Telus) wireless ADSL gateway at home? :(
Jun 28 03:55:17 <RST38h> one of them sucks.
Jun 28 03:55:25 <pyther> SpeedEvil: I have seen media players that couldn't do that
Jun 28 03:55:39 <RST38h> guess which one.
Jun 28 03:55:59 <SpeedEvil> pyther: And teh n900s media player can;'t do browse by directory.
Jun 28 03:56:27 <SpeedEvil> pyther: It will - for example - for some reason not pickup that a bunch of tracks ina  directory should be treated as an album.
Jun 28 03:56:28 <pyther> SpeedEvil: yah I figured that out, but it isn't a huge deal, for the most part my files are all tagged correctly
Jun 28 03:56:33 <SpeedEvil> Which kind of sucks
Jun 28 03:57:31 <brolin_empey1> RST38h: My gateway?
Jun 28 03:58:03 <RST38h> right.
Jun 28 04:03:53 <brolin_empey1> RST38h: I was hoping someone had a suggestion before I try replacing my gateway.
Jun 28 04:04:22 <RST38h> well, try switching off power saving on the n900
Jun 28 04:04:29 <RST38h> but your battery will run out real fast
Jun 28 04:04:55 <luke-jr> lol
Jun 28 04:05:06 <luke-jr> grr
Jun 28 04:05:16 <luke-jr> is it possible to get the N900 to keep the GPS online always?
Jun 28 04:05:31 <luke-jr> I added the desktop widget hoping that would do it, but as soon as the screen turns off it deactivates -.-
Jun 28 04:09:18 <brolin_empey1> RST38h: We use DD-WRT on a Linksys WRT54GL v1.1 at work, which works well.  I am considering buying a WRT54GL so I can use the same combination at home.  I also have a different wireless ADSL gateway Telus gave me.  It is a D-Link, which is usually bleh++, but I could at least try it before buying a WRT54GL.
Jun 28 04:17:28 * RST38h uses DLink DI-624. Never had problems with it.
Jun 28 04:18:05 <RST38h> The stuff you get for free is usually substandard though.
Jun 28 04:24:20 * brolin_empey1 is going to try the D-Link.
Jun 28 04:35:36 <IzzehO> is there an optimized chromium project for maemo yet?
Jun 28 04:35:54 <IzzehO> on capped net and MicroB just doesn't handle slow connections
Jun 28 04:36:27 <asj> isn't there opera?
Jun 28 04:38:15 <IzzehO> Find that doesn't handle it anywhere near as well
Jun 28 04:38:29 <asj> did you turn on "Turbo" mode?
Jun 28 04:38:33 <IzzehO> Was curious anyway as to whether there is a decent GUI for chromium yet
Jun 28 04:39:03 <IzzehO> turbo has never worked for m
Jun 28 04:39:38 <IzzehO> actually to be fair.. haven't tried it on latest versions
Jun 28 04:40:05 <asj> never had a problem with it...
Jun 28 04:40:35 <IzzehO> mm yeah just tried it.. it's definitely faster
Jun 28 04:40:46 <IzzehO> MicroB just gives up altogether loading graphically heavy pages..
Jun 28 04:40:50 <IzzehO> but turbo appears to be working
Jun 28 04:40:56 <asj> used to use it on edge and gprs all the time, it's not like there's any options for it
Jun 28 04:40:59 <IzzehO> I tried a fair while ago with it and it simply would time out
Jun 28 04:41:07 <asj> huh
Jun 28 04:41:31 <IzzehO> would get errors of not being able to connect
Jun 28 04:41:56 <IzzehO> no matter.. it works now.. thanks for the reminder
Jun 28 04:42:04 <asj> np,, hope it helps
Jun 28 05:19:27 <DocScrutinizer> moo
Jun 28 05:19:48 <DocScrutinizer> bug #10808
Jun 28 05:19:49 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10808 kernel oops on activating heartbeat trigger
Jun 28 05:19:50 <asj> baaaah
Jun 28 05:20:24 <DocScrutinizer> "fast shutdown" :-P
Jun 28 05:29:13 <brolin_empey> RST38h: The D-Link box Telus gave me is definitely substandard:  it is completely useless to me because I cannot make it use 192.168.0.2/24 instead of the shitty default 192.168.1.254/24. (epic fail)  It also still has some info from a previous customer.
Jun 28 05:54:40 <tank-man> brolin_empey, want to know a secret
Jun 28 05:54:54 <tank-man> get the telus tv and you can get free internet from the back of the box
Jun 28 05:55:06 <tank-man> the new telus tv
Jun 28 05:57:22 <brolin_empey> tank-man: Can I get Telus TV for less than the $25 or so per month I am currently paying for ADSL only?
Jun 28 05:58:03 <tank-man> i have shaw. I only know that much about telus
Jun 28 05:59:57 <brolin_empey> tank-man: It sounds interesting, but pointless for me because I watch so little TV.  I do not even have a TV. :)
Jun 28 06:01:12 <tank-man> but I also heard its pretty fast and no download limits
Jun 28 06:01:22 <tank-man> cause they don't monitor the tv stuff
Jun 28 06:01:27 <tank-man> or cant
Jun 28 06:04:42 <brolin_empey> tank-man: That does not matter to me either because my current ADSL is already fast enough.  I have never exceeded my monthly bandwidth limits with Telus ADSL because I do not download much and upload even less.
Jun 28 06:07:14 <arachnist> bandwidth limits? what's that?
Jun 28 06:07:15 <arachnist> ;)
Jun 28 06:13:26 <luke-jr> brolin_empey: then why not just use dialup? ;)
Jun 28 06:15:48 <brolin_empey> luke-jr: Because I am not /that/ much of a masochist.  I tried using dial-up on vacation last summer:  it was so slow it was almost useless.
Jun 28 06:16:18 <luke-jr> brolin_empey: most transfer limits I have seen are less than dialup
Jun 28 06:16:46 <emja> meh, you kids. try 2400bps dialup. muahahaha
Jun 28 06:16:48 <luke-jr> therefore, preferring them over dialup just implies impatience
Jun 28 06:16:50 <emja> :)
Jun 28 06:20:52 <brolin_empey> emja: I am only 23, but I actually used an external 2400 bps dial-up modem to call the VPL (Vancouver Public Library)'s catalog before dial-up access to the catalog was finally discontinued in 2001.
Jun 28 07:10:55 <D-Iivil> Good morning everyone.
Jun 28 07:14:03 <tekojo> morning D-Iivil!
Jun 28 07:14:42 <frals_> morning o/
Jun 28 07:14:59 <Myrtti> meh
Jun 28 07:25:43 <D-Iivil> Does anyone know if it's possible to create a shorcut on the desktop which would launch shell script ran with root priveledges?
Jun 28 07:28:09 <D-Iivil> I have a very simple shell script that changes my theme's color scheme, but it needs root priviledges to copy files under /usr/share/themes. It works nice if you have rootsh installed and first type sudo gainroot and then run the script. Or is there another easy way to do such file actions (I'm not eager to learn new code language if not absolutely necessary...).
Jun 28 07:30:05 <tank-man> i thikn you can do it with something called setuid
Jun 28 07:31:18 <rmrfchik> I wonder, why people use 2g/3g switcher applet? Why to switch off 3G anyway?
Jun 28 07:31:47 <MiXu-> 2G gives you more use time
Jun 28 07:31:55 <MiXu-> a lot more
Jun 28 07:32:03 <rmrfchik> ahh.. ok
Jun 28 07:32:17 <rmrfchik> this is new for me ;)
Jun 28 07:33:23 <D-Iivil> rmrfchik: and for example my summer house is located in the border area of 2G/3G and phone constantly jumps between those two (3G really does not work) so it's handy to force the phone to 2G.
Jun 28 07:34:28 <D-Iivil> tank-man:  thanks, but googling setuid won't give any reasonable results :-/ can you point me closer what should I be looking for?
Jun 28 07:36:05 <hrw> [A
Jun 28 07:36:09 <hrw> morning
Jun 28 07:38:42 <mikki-kun> morning as well *yawns*
Jun 28 07:39:32 <tank-man> D-Iivil, this link looks informative http://www.evolt.org/article/UNIX_File_Permissions_and_Setuid_Part_2/18/263/index.html
Jun 28 07:40:21 <tank-man> in short, try this command "chmod u+s script.sh"
Jun 28 07:40:28 <tank-man> as root
Jun 28 07:40:37 <tank-man> and make the owner of the script, root
Jun 28 07:42:38 <D-Iivil> tank-man: noup.. still gives permission denied error when the script tries to copy stuff inside /usr/share/themes -folder
Jun 28 07:43:02 <tank-man> is root the owner of the script?
Jun 28 07:44:22 <D-Iivil> tank-man: aah.. missed that line. Is this correct syntax: chown root yourscript.sh
Jun 28 07:45:07 <D-Iivil> No go, still permission denied error.
Jun 28 07:45:21 <tank-man> you have to be root user to do that chmod
Jun 28 07:45:59 <tank-man> i mean chown
Jun 28 07:46:20 <D-Iivil> tank-man: yeah, I did sudo gainroot myself before using chown
Jun 28 07:46:43 <tank-man> did it work?
Jun 28 07:47:07 <D-Iivil> Noup.
Jun 28 07:47:29 <D-Iivil> Permission denied for running cp -command in the script.
Jun 28 07:47:44 <mikki-kun> tank-man: what does the "s" stand for in the chmod command?
Jun 28 07:48:03 <tank-man> i think sticky bit
Jun 28 07:49:03 <D-Iivil> Here's the script: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=731695&postcount=14
Jun 28 07:49:49 <tank-man> heres a link i found with what you want http://www.tuxation.com/setuid-on-shell-scripts.html
Jun 28 07:50:42 <mikki-kun> hm, i've never encountered +s tbh
Jun 28 07:50:48 <kejen> how does maemo do dns lookups? Just realized my resolv.conf is 127.0.01
Jun 28 07:50:55 <kejen> 127.0.0.1 i mean
Jun 28 07:51:41 <kejen> was playing with openvpn, and wonder if it got overwritten
Jun 28 07:52:53 <dazo> kejen: I believe it's dnsmasq which does all resolving
Jun 28 07:53:44 <dazo> I'm using openvpn with a down-root plug-in to update the resolver
Jun 28 07:54:15 <dazo> gah
Jun 28 07:54:18 <kejen> its weird, with openvpn I couldnt resolve anything. Until I added some dns resolvers to resolve.conf
Jun 28 07:55:19 <kejen> and also, when using the plugin vs calling it with openvpn --config (config), the routes are completely different
Jun 28 07:55:31 <mikki-kun> kejen: could be that openvpn needs a working resolv.conf...
Jun 28 07:55:43 <dazo> from my config: 'up /etc/openvpn/maemo-update-resolvconf'
Jun 28 07:55:55 <dazo> (not sure where that script derives from, though)
Jun 28 07:56:01 <mikki-kun> i've seen a bunch of oddities on the n900 linuxside tbh...
Jun 28 07:56:07 <D-Iivil> tank-man: I think running "setuid" is somehow prevented in Maemo. I did exactly as the tutorial told me to do, but still no permission to run those commands :-/
Jun 28 07:56:17 <dazo> and then ... 'plugin /opt/openvpn/lib/openvpn/openvpn-down-root.so "script_type=down /etc/openvpn/maemo-update-resolvconf"'
Jun 28 07:56:40 <kejen> i see that text file in the /etc/openvpn folder
Jun 28 07:56:48 <tank-man> D-Iivil, yea, near the bottom of the page, it says if it doesnt work, the linux distro has it disabled (probably in the kernel)
Jun 28 07:57:04 <kejen> oh well, i just stick 4.2.2.2, and 4.2.2.1, and 8.8.8.8 in resolv.conf, those will always work
Jun 28 07:57:23 <D-Iivil> So then option b) how difficult would be to write that script in Python for example? And would that provide the solution? I want to make shortcut on application launcher so that user can run that setup anytime he wants without hassling with xterm.
Jun 28 08:01:35 <tank-man> D-Iivil, another way is configuring sudo and prepending all the 'root' commands in the script with sudo
Jun 28 08:01:58 <D-Iivil> tank-man: sounds like stuff I don't want to do on other users device.
Jun 28 08:02:16 <tank-man> i see
Jun 28 08:05:13 <D-Iivil> Heh, I already installed QT SDK but I don't have a slighest glue on how to write such simple application that shows a dialog and then copies one folder to another location based on users choise :-D
Jun 28 08:07:27 <mikki-kun> hm, the qt sdk needs to be run in VM-ware, right?
Jun 28 08:08:23 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: runs fine on windows machine.
Jun 28 08:08:47 <mikki-kun> D-Iivil: you just downloaded it and "executed" it?
Jun 28 08:09:10 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: yep. Downloaded, excecuted the installer and then fired up the SDK. Seems to be working fine.
Jun 28 08:10:09 <mikki-kun> hm... at some point i need to finally start coding >.< let's see what i'll do first then... maybe some "hello worlds" ^^
Jun 28 08:10:25 <D-Iivil> But don't know if that's overkill.. All I want to do is include that small "setup wizard" with my theme that makes possible for user only install one package from repos and he gets to choose which color scheme he want's to use.
Jun 28 08:11:26 <D-Iivil> Don't really know if it's possible to include the setup wizard written in QT with theme package :-/
Jun 28 08:11:59 <mikki-kun> maybe include it as a stand-alone packet
Jun 28 08:12:03 <tristan> i swear im seeing processes ive closed in ps x
Jun 28 08:12:07 <tristan> and duplicates of almost everything
Jun 28 08:12:14 <tristan> am i missing some fundamental fact here.
Jun 28 08:12:35 <mikki-kun> which proccesses are those? and did you use "kill -9 $PID"?
Jun 28 08:12:41 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: Then user would have to download two packages. I'm aiming to reduce the amount of packages I upload to repos since it seems to bother some people.
Jun 28 08:13:16 <mikki-kun> D-Iivil: hm, maybe just then give access to the theme-chooser app and host your themes on another server then
Jun 28 08:13:19 <tristan> like, browser for instance.
Jun 28 08:13:26 <tristan> ill ssh in and grab the ps x output, one moment.
Jun 28 08:13:28 <mikki-kun> that would be a simple solution
Jun 28 08:13:33 <tristan> im saying, i close the browser
Jun 28 08:13:36 <tristan> yet i see two browser pids.
Jun 28 08:13:44 <D-Iivil> Right now it's working just fine; user installs one theme with application manager and then during the installation he chooses which color scheme to use and he can also change that later by running the shell script from terminal.
Jun 28 08:14:08 <mikki-kun> tristan: running here as well, i assume the browser has also some other function as the explorer.exe in windows...
Jun 28 08:14:16 <mikki-kun> kinda dislike this behaviour...
Jun 28 08:14:58 <mikki-kun> hm, so you want "major themes" which include all the color-codes... that's a cool idea from you :)
Jun 28 08:15:43 <mikki-kun> tristan: i have browser running twice and browserd running trice...
Jun 28 08:16:18 <tristan> hmm.
Jun 28 08:16:39 <mikki-kun> i am currently restarting my n900 to check out if it loads it during start as well
Jun 28 08:16:43 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: exactly! Black Plastic is now first that has that function (available @ extras-devel). Just want to make it easy to run the setup script again without re-installing the whole theme package or hassle inside terminal.
Jun 28 08:17:15 <mikki-kun> hm, another cool thing would be to let the user choose then custom colors as well ^^
Jun 28 08:18:09 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: well.. it's not just setting color code in .css -file, different theme variations includes a bunch of graphics also (buttons etc).
Jun 28 08:18:14 <mikki-kun> i can't kinda figure out myself how to make a theme by myself >.< i mean, throwing tools and apps at the user is nice, but without documentation it's a lil uncool
Jun 28 08:18:47 <mikki-kun> i know... surely there is a way into changing those colors as well ;)
Jun 28 08:19:01 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: there are some good tutorials that will guide you through creating a Maemo 5 themes.
Jun 28 08:19:24 <D-Iivil> like this: http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE/Theme_building
Jun 28 08:19:26 <tristan> eh i had to cycle, my wifi was broken
Jun 28 08:19:43 <mikki-kun> tristan: i have running browserd -d only after a reboot
Jun 28 08:19:44 <tristan> ill output the ps x results sometime when i see it next, maybe its just browser having lots of roles.
Jun 28 08:19:54 <tristan> im basically trying to work out why my battery is self destructing.
Jun 28 08:20:37 <mikki-kun> D-Iivil: thanks for that link
Jun 28 08:21:29 <mikki-kun> tristan: display can kill it, as well as maybe some apps
Jun 28 08:22:01 <mikki-kun> either due to bad coding or heavy usage of a certain device like the GPS-module
Jun 28 08:22:03 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: basically you just edit one single png -file that is the theme template. And then backgrounds etc. and finally pack it all up in .deb inside scratchbox or then use extras autobuilder.
Jun 28 08:22:12 <tristan> well,
Jun 28 08:22:16 <tristan> i screenshooted my battery meter
Jun 28 08:22:22 <tristan> its when i turn on 3g and my mobile internet
Jun 28 08:22:35 <tristan> it can pillage 25% of the battery in half an hour
Jun 28 08:22:58 <mikki-kun> tristan: 3g is from what i read and heard the one killing your bat the fastest...
Jun 28 08:23:08 <tristan> thats a bummer.
Jun 28 08:23:20 <tristan> im new to this mobile internet stuff:p i cant use my data plan without 3g being on can i.
Jun 28 08:24:01 <mikki-kun> D-Iivil: i have downloaded the "themecreator" from maemo but i kinda didn't get which buttons goes where and how and what and when... i was able to edit it though, but it kinda was difficult tbh...
Jun 28 08:24:28 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: what's that? Never heard about it, the themecreator I mean.
Jun 28 08:24:28 * pahartik just downloaded "d-theme-futureal", "d-theme-simple-blue" and "istyle-light" for trying next time reboot is required
Jun 28 08:24:48 <mikki-kun> ahhh, thememaker1.2.9
Jun 28 08:25:09 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: okay, well it's exactly the same template that is being used with that method I posted.
Jun 28 08:25:40 <mikki-kun> uhm... damn ^^ then it seems i gotta figure out in where which button or colorsnipper goes...
Jun 28 08:25:42 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: you just need to play around with it and see what button is used and where. And ofcrouse I can tell you if you want to ask.
Jun 28 08:27:03 <mikki-kun> thanks for that offer :)
Jun 28 08:27:49 <mikki-kun> i will look into it when i really can't figure out where what goes ^^
Jun 28 08:28:03 <D-Iivil> Allthough I'm not online @ irc too often, but I guess if you post any of your questions to this thread they will be answered quick: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44187
Jun 28 08:30:24 <mikki-kun> i'll bookmark it :)
Jun 28 08:30:57 <mikki-kun> and thanks for your tutorial with the loading indicators :)
Jun 28 08:34:12 <mikki-kun> hopefully my theme will look the way i want it to be ^^
Jun 28 08:34:42 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: my tutorial? Never wrote a single tutorial in my life :-D
Jun 28 08:35:03 <mikki-kun> not... ohhh, my mind really is playing tricks on me again...
Jun 28 08:35:38 <mikki-kun> uah... normal nokia theme looks just wrong >.<
Jun 28 08:39:03 <mikki-kun> D-Iivil: can you tell me where the lower right "box" goes on the n900 which is in backgrounds-template.png?
Jun 28 08:39:18 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: and if you have scratchbox running, you can download sources of my themes just to see what the template -file looks like.
Jun 28 08:39:21 <D-Iivil> hold on, I'll check
Jun 28 08:39:43 <D-Iivil> umm.. background-template.png under what directory?
Jun 28 08:39:44 <mikki-kun> looks like something in portrait mode, rather than landscape
Jun 28 08:40:04 <mikki-kun> i am still using thememaker1.2.9 for making the theme...
Jun 28 08:40:26 <D-Iivil> aah.. I don't have that installed atm.
Jun 28 08:40:34 <D-Iivil> So have no idea about that.
Jun 28 08:42:26 <mikki-kun> hm, let's see where i can find a source of madde
Jun 28 08:47:44 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: seems like MADDE is now bundled with Nokia QT SDK: http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE
Jun 28 08:48:45 <mikki-kun> jup, i am loading the nokia qt sdk as well
Jun 28 08:49:01 <mikki-kun> i just hope it sourcecode for my gentoo
Jun 28 08:49:21 <mikki-kun> i hate precompiled bins... it's as if somebody would have prechewed your burger ^^
Jun 28 08:50:22 <D-Iivil> mikki-kun: and you also need to set up a Maemo SDK as well if you want to build theme debs locally. It's a bit of work but makes testing themes easier. In that way the thememaker is easier path to go.
Jun 28 08:50:45 <D-Iivil> I just never got thememaker working on my machine so then I went down with the other way.
Jun 28 08:51:04 <mikki-kun> it seems, but testing the theme on the n900 will be a lil cumbersome after time i think...
Jun 28 08:52:03 <mikki-kun> i know from my background that i did like 10 different versions...
Jun 28 08:54:26 <mikki-kun> damn, the qt sdk takes another 1.5 hours :(
Jun 28 08:56:11 <nas_> is there any way to have something like dial plan on n900 ? for example when I call a number starts from 8 then use SIP account , when I call a number start with 2 use GSM  and so on ?
Jun 28 09:01:21 <mikki-kun> nas_: haven't heard of that...
Jun 28 09:01:53 <nas_> couldn't find anything on google too ..
Jun 28 09:29:43 <gsever> hello
Jun 28 09:34:20 <D-Iivil> hello
Jun 28 09:35:08 <Pontus^> In about 35 min I will go and get my new N900 *woho*
Jun 28 09:35:26 <gsever> crowdy here :)
Jun 28 09:35:53 <Pontus^> sure that
Jun 28 09:35:59 <gsever> are there any wifi only users of N900 ?
Jun 28 09:36:01 <MohammadAG51> hey D-Iivil
Jun 28 09:36:09 <gsever> without a GSM operator
Jun 28 09:36:12 <D-Iivil> Hey MohammadAG51!
Jun 28 09:36:16 <toggles_w> gsever: I was for about 4 months
Jun 28 09:36:24 <gsever> ok here is my situation
Jun 28 09:36:40 <gsever> the places I live there is almost always some wifi coverage
Jun 28 09:36:46 <gsever> in school being the best :D
Jun 28 09:37:17 <gsever> and I am not considering of getting a sim card, neither for voice plan nor for data plan only
Jun 28 09:37:19 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: thanks for your help with the script :) I'm still strugling on how to run the script from shortcut with root priviledges though :-/
Jun 28 09:37:38 <D-Iivil> (I want to make the script easily accessible when ever user wants to)
Jun 28 09:37:53 <gsever> this is for the US. and I am thinking of continuening my communication via wifi networks, logged in IM services
Jun 28 09:38:10 <MohammadAG51> D-Iivil, a desktop file?
Jun 28 09:38:13 <toggles_w> gsever: n900 worked great for this for me, n900 + google voice + gizmo5 (diamondcard.us or some other voip), no need for a sim
Jun 28 09:38:18 <gsever> and looking for options to make cheap outgoing and incoming calls
Jun 28 09:38:19 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: yes
Jun 28 09:38:44 <gsever> toggles_w, yeh I get a google voice as well although not used or set it up yet :D
Jun 28 09:38:48 <toggles_w> gserver: in usa google voice + gizmo5 or some other voip provider
Jun 28 09:39:02 <gsever> is gizmo5 free?
Jun 28 09:39:04 <toggles_w> i have used gizmo and diamondcard.us, both work
Jun 28 09:39:08 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: since most users don't want to go in xterm and first sudogainroot themselves and then run the script.
Jun 28 09:39:09 <MohammadAG51> D-Iivil, add an entry to /etc/sudoers.d/, update-sudoers, then use sudo
Jun 28 09:39:13 <toggles_w> gizmo is free, owned by google now
Jun 28 09:39:31 <toggles_w> sorry, not free, but pennies a minute
Jun 28 09:39:43 <gsever> toggles_w, no new signups on gizmo5
Jun 28 09:39:49 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: but that sounds like stuff I don't want to do on users devices? Or can that be automated during package installation procedure?
Jun 28 09:40:00 <D-Iivil> And I think it's a security breach also :-/
Jun 28 09:40:38 <MohammadAG51> D-Iivil, a lot of apps use it, and it's done in the postinst script
Jun 28 09:40:53 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: really?
Jun 28 09:40:55 <MohammadAG51> it's only for your script, can't see it as a security breach :)
Jun 28 09:41:00 <toggles_w> gsever: well you need a voip provider that will supply a us telephone # like diamondcard.us then you forward gvoice to that number
Jun 28 09:41:01 <MohammadAG51> user ALL = NOPASSWD: /sbin/fm-boost
Jun 28 09:41:05 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: aaaah, okay! Then it sounds cool!
Jun 28 09:41:07 <MohammadAG51> example from fm-boost
Jun 28 09:41:18 <D-Iivil> Will download source of fm-boost and see what happens there :)
Jun 28 09:41:23 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: Thanks for the tip!
Jun 28 09:41:44 <MohammadAG51> D-Iivil, just cd into /etc/sudoers.d and check the files there, it's just c&p tbh :P
Jun 28 09:41:51 <MohammadAG51> D-Iivil, np :)
Jun 28 09:41:59 <gsever> toggles_w, hmm that could we be a skype number as well eh?
Jun 28 09:42:19 <toggles_w> probably if the skype can be dialed from a regular phone
Jun 28 09:42:45 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: so should I place my script under /sbin?
Jun 28 09:42:54 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: now it's places under /user/home
Jun 28 09:43:02 <D-Iivil> placed
Jun 28 09:43:26 <gsever> toggles_w, it says yes for that http://www.skype.com/intl/en/features/
Jun 28 09:44:20 <MohammadAG51> D-Iivil, doesn't matter :)
Jun 28 09:45:04 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: so I just edit the .sudoers -file to be like this: user ALL = NOPASSWD: /home/user/myscript.sh ?
Jun 28 09:46:23 <MohammadAG51> yes, make a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ (/etc/sudoers.d/themesselector.sudoers for example) and add user ALL = NOPASSWD: /home/user/myscript.sh to it
Jun 28 09:46:30 <gsever> toggles_w, skype says €4,99/month not about 6.2 $ to make outgoing calls
Jun 28 09:47:07 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: Will try it! Thanks (again). Took you only two minutes to get me through issue I've been trying to google since last night :D
Jun 28 09:47:29 <MohammadAG51> D-Iivil, you're welcome :)
Jun 28 09:48:13 <D-Iivil> It's really painfull to try to learn something new when you don't even know what to google for. I had never used Unix OS before I bought N900 :-P
Jun 28 09:48:36 <gsever> toggles_w, for incoming calls it costs 60$ per year, 5$ per month, so in total it makes about 11$ per month :D
Jun 28 09:49:14 <gsever> D-Iivil, just setup a linux box, virtual or real
Jun 28 09:49:19 <gsever> and start digging :D
Jun 28 09:49:46 <D-Iivil> gsever: well that's what I've done :) Installed Ubuntu on VMWare, then installed Maemo SDK and so on.
Jun 28 09:50:01 <Pupnik71> good!
Jun 28 09:50:10 <gsever> same here, too :) I also use Fedora 12
Jun 28 09:51:00 <Pupnik71> what 2 do
Jun 28 09:52:39 <gsever> toggles_w, how much your setup costs?
Jun 28 09:52:58 <gsever> toggles_w, is it monthly payment or pay as you use type of deal?
Jun 28 09:56:43 <mirf> wow
Jun 28 09:57:00 <mirf> I just found the jebba debian repo
Jun 28 09:57:11 <mirf> that is insane
Jun 28 09:58:38 <Pupnik71> hey mirf :)
Jun 28 09:59:17 <mirf> hah hi Pupnik71 :D
Jun 28 09:59:30 <mirf> I've got my n900 now
Jun 28 09:59:39 <Pupnik71> I havent used that
Jun 28 09:59:54 <Pupnik71> Nice.. Happy so far?
Jun 28 10:00:07 <mirf> yeah man pretty much
Jun 28 10:00:44 <mirf> I've not hacked it too much yet
Jun 28 10:02:08 <Pupnik71> may you have a fun time exploring the possiblities
Jun 28 10:02:19 <mirf> yeah
Jun 28 10:02:52 <mirf> been thinking abuot installing debian to sd card
Jun 28 10:03:25 <mirf> for dual booting into somethign les phone centric
Jun 28 10:03:54 <Pupnik71> mhm
Jun 28 10:05:23 <mirf> it would be very interesting to get a nice light install with realtime enabled on the kernel and puredata
Jun 28 10:05:25 <jpe> today little disappointedin n900, no rSAP support....
Jun 28 10:07:24 <mirf> accelerometer/proximity sensor algorithmic music
Jun 28 10:08:04 <mirf> head in the clouds type ideas :P
Jun 28 10:08:07 <MohammadAG51> grrr, rar is a non-free package built for i386 and x64 only...
Jun 28 10:08:40 <mirf> there should be a unrarfree as well I'd have though MohammadAG51
Jun 28 10:09:09 <MohammadAG51> mirf, that's for unraring, not raring
Jun 28 10:09:22 <MohammadAG51> guess i'll have to take it out of xarchiver's options
Jun 28 10:09:23 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: I'm facing a problem here while trying to install the .deb i just built.
Jun 28 10:09:37 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG51: /scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/etc/sudoers': Operation not permitted
Jun 28 10:10:12 <MohammadAG51> hmm?
Jun 28 10:10:28 <D-Iivil> I downloaded the source code of fm-boost and copy&pasted the sudoers -stuff from there and I think that error comes when postinst is trying to run command "update-sudoers"
Jun 28 10:10:44 <MohammadAG51> fakeroot update-sudoers
Jun 28 10:10:56 <D-Iivil> Scratchbox issue?
Jun 28 10:11:01 <MohammadAG> I suppose
Jun 28 10:11:16 <D-Iivil> Okay. Will test it out. I suppose fakeroot wont be needed with actual device?
Jun 28 10:11:21 <MohammadAG> nope
Jun 28 10:11:24 <MohammadAG> umm
Jun 28 10:11:31 <MohammadAG> .deb file?
Jun 28 10:11:41 <MohammadAG> use fakeroot dpkg -i to install it
Jun 28 10:11:47 <D-Iivil> Aaa, ok, will do that :)
Jun 28 10:11:57 <mirf> oh yeah , I should read :P
Jun 28 10:11:57 <toggles_w> gsever: paid by the minute as used, gizmo is 1c/min in us, I think diamondcard is to, and i was paying about 2c to australia
Jun 28 10:13:21 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG: it's working! Thanks again :)
Jun 28 10:13:38 <MohammadAG> :D
Jun 28 10:14:04 <D-Iivil> Yeah, now I can run the script as normal user and it works :)
Jun 28 10:14:23 <D-Iivil> Now I just need to google how to create a .desktop -file to launch the script but that should be trivial :)
Jun 28 10:14:31 <mirf> yeah Pupnik71 this deb repo is all of etch compiled for n900... it kinda scares me lol
Jun 28 10:15:12 <MohammadAG> D-Iivil, whenever I make .desktop files I just cat a file in /usr/share/applications/hildon/ and change the respective fields :)
Jun 28 10:15:48 <D-Iivil> MohammadAG: I will take a look at fm-boost's .desktop -file ;)
Jun 28 10:16:29 <MohammadAG> D-Iivil, the X-Osso-Service field is based on files in /usr/share/dbus-1/services/, do check those out too :)
Jun 28 10:25:18 <ruskie> http://www.tokyoflash.com/en/watches/kisai/escape-c/design/ <-- so want this
Jun 28 10:26:06 <gsever> toggles_w, is that diamondcard thing provide both incoming and outgoing calls?
Jun 28 10:26:08 <corecode> what's that new stupid idea that the phone completely resets the time when switching the sim card?
Jun 28 10:28:04 <toggles_w> gsever: yes, it's just a voip provider that will provide a pstn number if you want
Jun 28 10:28:22 <D-Iivil> corecode: I've wondered the same thing myself...
Jun 28 10:28:52 <gsever> I might try diamond when I land in the US in a couple weeks
Jun 28 10:28:57 <gsever> oh joy of using N900 :D
Jun 28 10:30:06 <MohammadAG> corecode, it only resets the time zone :)
Jun 28 10:30:09 <toggles_w> it's works very very well as a wifi voip device
Jun 28 10:30:48 <alterego> MohammadAG: vote for my new version :)
Jun 28 10:31:11 <alterego> And by vote I mean test :P
Jun 28 10:31:32 <MohammadAG> alterego, when perl-modules gets in -testing you do the same, TEST IT!
Jun 28 10:32:15 <alterego> MohammadAG: of course :)
Jun 28 10:32:19 <corecode> MohammadAG: no, i started at jan 1 2009
Jun 28 10:32:22 <corecode> twice
Jun 28 10:32:46 <MohammadAG> weird, mine never does that. Could be a hw problem?
Jun 28 10:33:09 <proycon> My brand new Nokia N900 suddenly doesn't make any sound anymore... I can't play any audio,  neither system files nor MP3, but only telephone calls seem to work... CPU load is constantly fairly high, with pulseaudio taking a sizeable portion
Jun 28 10:33:13 <MohammadAG> and I changed my SIM last week
Jun 28 10:33:29 <MohammadAG> ~flashing
Jun 28 10:33:30 <infobot> flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jun 28 10:33:40 <MohammadAG> proycon, follow that ^ and flash your device
Jun 28 10:33:45 <proycon> Does the nokia n900 have two seperate speakers?
Jun 28 10:33:45 <proycon> hmm
Jun 28 10:34:02 <MohammadAG> if it's new, it should be the easiest 'fix'
Jun 28 10:34:10 <alterego> proycon: three actually, maybe four.
Jun 28 10:34:12 <MohammadAG> if the problem is in software
Jun 28 10:34:22 <MohammadAG> most probably three
Jun 28 10:34:32 <proycon> I'm not entirely sure yet if it's the software or the hardware speakers which are broken
Jun 28 10:34:35 <MohammadAG> you did try the calls with the speaker on right?
Jun 28 10:35:06 <alterego> Turning the volume up? :)
Jun 28 10:35:23 <proycon> I tried calls with speaker on too yeah
Jun 28 10:35:25 <proycon> that worked
Jun 28 10:35:30 <proycon> and turning volume up had no effect
Jun 28 10:35:35 <proycon> (it did start muted though)
Jun 28 10:35:47 <proycon> alsamixer shows only 'master'
Jun 28 10:35:52 <proycon> (not sure how much it is supposed to show)
Jun 28 10:38:23 <proycon> dmesg says this: http://pastebin.com/8X5wGZqy    is that all it's supposed to say regarding to sound?
Jun 28 10:38:25 <MohammadAG> proycon, if the speakers worked in a call it's a software problem
Jun 28 10:38:27 <MohammadAG> reflash
Jun 28 10:38:50 <proycon> yeah, if that's the only solution I'll try that
Jun 28 10:39:17 <proycon> but I can't stand not knowing what caused this and fixing it
Jun 28 10:40:48 <MohammadAG> proycon, heh, I guess you're not a newbie to linux :p
Jun 28 10:40:54 <proycon> no, indeed
Jun 28 10:41:13 <proycon> only to the n900
Jun 28 10:41:18 <MohammadAG> flashing is the easiest solution, I doubt it's the only one
Jun 28 10:41:46 <gsever> toggle_ws, with diamondcard option I need to setup a SIP account to receive calls
Jun 28 10:42:04 <proycon> I'm wondering if flashing will affect my warranty?
Jun 28 10:42:44 <proycon> cause I could just return to the shop and say "it's broken", bought it two days ago
Jun 28 10:43:35 <pupnik> < proycon> Does the nokia n900 have two seperate speakers?
Jun 28 10:43:40 <pupnik> >_<
Jun 28 10:46:38 <alterego> fucking hay fever ..
Jun 28 10:52:04 <Myrtti> alterego: prescription medication ♥
Jun 28 10:53:34 <alterego> No, I don't even get hay fever, thi syear is the second time in my life :/
Jun 28 10:54:10 <alterego> I think my body is slightly weekened as I'm fighting off a systemic infection with antibiotics at the moment.
Jun 28 10:56:25 <Myrtti> I got my first hayfever at the adult age of 25, and have had it since
Jun 28 10:56:45 <lcuk> alterego, find 2 of the biggest pills you can find, insert one in each nostril.  hayfever will go! (get well soon btw)
Jun 28 10:57:18 <Myrtti> this year I've had so bad symptomps I've got prescription and drugs for antihistamine pills, cortisone nasal spray, eye drops and even an asthma inhaler in case I get really bad
Jun 28 10:57:22 <alterego> Hah, nice one. Myrtti maybe you're right, I'm twenty seven so that may have put me in a similar position :)
Jun 28 10:58:04 <alterego> My symptoms hay fever related are just itchy leaky eyes and the occasional sneezing fit.
Jun 28 10:58:14 <Myrtti> sounds about right.
Jun 28 10:58:28 <Myrtti> my personal best is 12 sneezes
Jun 28 10:58:41 <alterego> It only really bothers me when I get up in the morning and have to carefully rinse all the dry and not so dry gunk from my eyes :(
Jun 28 10:59:20 <alterego> Sweet, I've got a friend who's always suffered and he's at wits end this year, just seems to be getting worse and worse for him :(
Jun 28 10:59:44 <Myrtti> I wouldn't mind the sneezing, if my back weren't shot as well
Jun 28 11:00:11 <alterego> Harsh,
Jun 28 11:00:38 <alterego> I should just stop smoking, I'm sure most of this is down to that killing my immune system :)
Jun 28 11:05:04 <alterego> Anyway, if you want to make me feel better, tes and vote for my package :) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/media-im-status-updater/0.4/
Jun 28 11:05:36 <alterego> emotional black mail ftw
Jun 28 11:18:17 <MohammadAG> alterego, is a tmo thread a valid bugtracker?
Jun 28 11:23:18 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: yes
Jun 28 11:23:27 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: read the friendly guidelines
Jun 28 11:27:04 <proycon> Where are my contacts stored on the n900 phone?
Jun 28 11:27:19 <jacekowski> on the emmc
Jun 28 11:27:25 <proycon> backup tool doesn't seem to work, so I want to copy them manually
Jun 28 11:27:50 <jacekowski> have you tried google?
Jun 28 11:28:01 <corecode> so far i had problems charging my n900 on usb ports
Jun 28 11:28:07 <proycon> /home/user ?
Jun 28 11:28:09 <corecode> it always says "not charging"
Jun 28 11:28:19 <jacekowski> corecode: windows
Jun 28 11:28:20 <corecode> is there a way to force a lower current charge?
Jun 28 11:28:30 <corecode> jacekowski: linux and windows
Jun 28 11:28:32 <jacekowski> corecode: if it has no drivers it will not send more than 100mA
Jun 28 11:28:51 <corecode> well, 100mA is better than nothing
Jun 28 11:29:05 <jacekowski> not really
Jun 28 11:29:08 <jacekowski> 100mA is nothing
Jun 28 11:29:15 <jacekowski> so you just said
Jun 28 11:29:23 <jacekowski> well, nothing is better than nothing
Jun 28 11:29:48 <BCMM> i've had problems with windows xp, and with my front USB
Jun 28 11:30:14 <corecode> i ran my battery flat because neither my dell laptop nor the other lenovo laptop could charge it
Jun 28 11:30:17 <BCMM> (which is a USB card reader + USB port thing connected to a motherboard header)
Jun 28 11:30:23 <corecode> i don't mind if it takes 10h to charge
Jun 28 11:30:35 <BCMM> frankly, i was expecting the port to just be directly connected to half of the header, but no luck
Jun 28 11:30:36 <corecode> as long as it charges a little bit
Jun 28 11:30:57 <jacekowski> corecode: at 100mA it would charge in only infinite hours
Jun 28 11:31:04 <ShadowJK> if the host computer says NO then N900 obeys :/
Jun 28 11:31:06 <lcuk> corecode, when you do get started, going into offline mode and turning screen off gives best charging performance (for obvious reasons)
Jun 28 11:31:11 <jacekowski> corecode: it's barely charging from 500mA
Jun 28 11:31:16 <lcuk> jacekowski, where in the spec does it say 100ma specifically?
Jun 28 11:31:31 <jacekowski> lcuk: that's minimum required from usb port regardless of anything
Jun 28 11:31:48 <lcuk> thats OTG spec limit isnt it?
Jun 28 11:31:54 <jacekowski> no
Jun 28 11:31:57 <corecode> lcuk: it doesn't charge at all
Jun 28 11:32:01 <lcuk> :( core
Jun 28 11:32:10 <corecode> "Not charging"
Jun 28 11:32:13 <jacekowski> lcuk: it's delivering 100mA for device startup and that sort of things
Jun 28 11:32:14 <corecode> it says
Jun 28 11:32:43 <corecode> which current does it charge with on the charger?
Jun 28 11:32:46 <corecode> 1000mA?
Jun 28 11:33:35 <ShadowJK> 1200
Jun 28 11:33:39 <corecode> wow
Jun 28 11:33:49 <corecode> well, still 100mA better than nothing
Jun 28 11:33:51 <ShadowJK> Well, the charger can provide 1200, but bme usually only takes 1000 of it
Jun 28 11:33:56 <lcuk> jacekowski, but where does it say that - you have info and mentioning drivers - the amount of power is not the same as having drivers available?  i am quite certain i have charged from device without drivers (windows sat there saying "cannot find driver" but yet device is charging
Jun 28 11:34:18 <jacekowski> lcuk: i think it depends on version
Jun 28 11:34:42 <lcuk> version of what?
Jun 28 11:34:46 <jacekowski> lcuk: xp seems to require drivers to provide more than that 100mA
Jun 28 11:34:53 <ShadowJK> I heard that if you have ever installed ovi suite or pc suite, or the usb networking drivers on a windows machine, it'll refuse to provide power
Jun 28 11:34:54 <lcuk> this was xp
Jun 28 11:35:22 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: that might be the thing
Jun 28 11:35:48 <ShadowJK> But then again, who'd insane and crazy enough to install such crap? :)
Jun 28 11:35:58 <haj> uhm.. okay this has been annoying me for some weeks now. So:
Jun 28 11:36:38 <haj> Is there a way to disable application manager automatically checking for updates once a day? since I use apt-get upgrade anyway once in a while it's getting a bit annoying to see the yellow icon
Jun 28 11:36:50 <D-Iivil> Hooray, finally it's working :) The theme color scheme selector bundled with theme!
Jun 28 11:37:44 <pcfe> haj: yes, there is a gconf key whose name I forget. check the maemo wiki, IIRC the key is in there.
Jun 28 11:38:55 <haj> pcfe: thanks.. :)
Jun 28 11:39:01 <jacekowski> haj: i just ignore it
Jun 28 11:39:06 <haj> pcfe: think I'll just change it to a week..
Jun 28 11:39:15 <haj> jacekowski: so do I.. but it's still annoying.. :)
Jun 28 11:40:28 <vldcnst> http://www.perpetualkid.com/productimages/lg2/STND-1833-2.jpg low-tech stand for low-tech phone
Jun 28 11:40:30 <vldcnst> ^^
Jun 28 11:41:06 <haj> jacekowski: http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo
Jun 28 11:41:14 <haj> jacekowski: almost at the bottom of the page..
Jun 28 11:41:20 <haj> really easy to change
Jun 28 11:57:23 <corecode> anybody on the "charge with 100mA"?
Jun 28 11:57:31 <corecode> is there a way to force it?
Jun 28 11:57:37 <corecode> i mean, just in case
Jun 28 12:01:20 <Gadgetoid_mbp> Dun dun... dun!
Jun 28 12:02:40 <timeless_mbp> corecode: eh, what are you trying to do, and why?
Jun 28 12:03:08 <ShadowJK> his PCs refuse to supply power to N900
Jun 28 12:03:29 <alterego> Is it a Mac? I hear Mac's hate the N900! :P
Jun 28 12:03:33 <timeless_mbp> any, or sufficient?
Jun 28 12:03:41 <timeless_mbp> alterego: my mac gets along nicely w/ my n900s
Jun 28 12:03:54 <alterego> :)
Jun 28 12:04:33 <ShadowJK> timeless, "Not Charging"
Jun 28 12:04:36 <alterego> corecode: does the OS recognise the device? Is it just charging that doesn't work and what kind of machine is this and what OS are you using?
Jun 28 12:07:14 <corecode> yes
Jun 28 12:07:26 <corecode> it seems the cable i'm using is the problem
Jun 28 12:07:35 <corecode> it is totally beyond me how that would happen tho
Jun 28 12:08:31 <alterego> corecode: how old is the cable? :)
Jun 28 12:08:32 <corecode> or at least not reliably
Jun 28 12:08:47 <corecode> alterego: new, just $random usb cable
Jun 28 12:09:07 <MiXu-> I've seen some weird shit with faulty usb cables as well
Jun 28 12:09:14 <corecode> well, usb works
Jun 28 12:09:17 <corecode> just charging doesn't
Jun 28 12:09:18 <Appiah> n900 wont charge with any cable
Jun 28 12:09:26 <Appiah> the cable thats provided is not standard
Jun 28 12:09:31 <alterego> Weird,
Jun 28 12:09:37 <corecode> Appiah: weh?
Jun 28 12:09:40 <ShadowJK> Appiah, wtf?
Jun 28 12:09:46 <vldcnst> Appiah: wrong.
Jun 28 12:09:47 <alterego> All my Nokia cables work
Jun 28 12:09:49 <ShadowJK> Appiah, you're making this up or have misunderstood things.
Jun 28 12:09:50 <MiXu-> Once had a printer that could be detected fine and everything was cool until you tried to print. Nothing would happen.
Jun 28 12:09:54 <Appiah> umm
Jun 28 12:10:00 <Appiah> thats what I read on maemo talk
Jun 28 12:10:01 <MiXu-> Changed usb cable -> everything worked again
Jun 28 12:10:06 <ShadowJK> Appiah, well it's wrong
Jun 28 12:10:24 <corecode> ShadowJK: any idea why one cable would work and the other wouldn't?
Jun 28 12:10:25 <Appiah> people having problems with charing + transfering
Jun 28 12:10:48 <ShadowJK> However, when connecting to non-standard chargers, a non-standard cable can convince N900 to charge, whereas a standard cable would not charge
Jun 28 12:11:16 <corecode> ShadowJK: this is on a powered usb hub (monitor)
Jun 28 12:11:23 <alterego> Someone test and vote for my app please :)
Jun 28 12:11:31 <alterego> On 4/10 at the mo
Jun 28 12:11:31 <vldcnst> again!/
Jun 28 12:11:40 <D-Iivil> Fuck! My micro-USB port just fell off :-(
Jun 28 12:11:51 <alterego> D-Iivil: :( oh no!
Jun 28 12:12:00 <Appiah> D-Iivil: that happens quite often..
Jun 28 12:12:09 <Shapeshifter> Does someone know of a way of pre-caching maps for maep? As in making them available offline in large batches like a country or area.
Jun 28 12:12:15 <D-Iivil> You guys were talking about chargning and I decided to put mine on charge also.
Jun 28 12:12:16 <ShadowJK> Basically the device on the other end has to identify itself as a charger, or as a computer, and if it identifies as a computer, N900 will ask for power, and if the computer agrees, it will charge. If the computer rejects N900's request for power, N900 will not charge. If the device on the other end identifies itself as a charger, N900 will draw as much power as it can suck out of it.
Jun 28 12:12:31 <Appiah> Shapeshifter: think there are some cache apps for that
Jun 28 12:12:38 <D-Iivil> Argh. This means I need to dig up my 5800XM and charge the battery with it.
Jun 28 12:12:40 <alterego> Shapeshifter: yeah, google it for series 60 and it works pretty muchthe same.
Jun 28 12:12:49 <D-Iivil> Any DIY fixes available yet?
Jun 28 12:13:21 <timeless_mbp> alterego: what app? and does it require an account outside of maemo.org?
Jun 28 12:13:25 <ShadowJK> D-Iivil, no when it breaks it's pretty much unrepairable
Jun 28 12:13:28 <flux> I wonder if that electricity conducting glue would be ideal for fixing that. or messing it beyong repair :)
Jun 28 12:13:34 <Appiah> http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=607824 here is one about the issue about some cables not charging
Jun 28 12:13:40 <alterego> D-Iivil: not a fix, but you can usually charge the battery in other Nokias, like N810 E60 ...
Jun 28 12:13:40 <Appiah> or not doing datatransfers
Jun 28 12:13:49 <Shapeshifter> for series 60? maep and mapper and all those who share a cache are maemo specific aren't they?
Jun 28 12:13:50 <Appiah> cant find the other ones..
Jun 28 12:14:00 <MiXu-> You'll void your warranty if you mess with it yourself. So I wouldn't :)
Jun 28 12:14:08 <D-Iivil> ShadowJK: well.. maybe it's time to bring the device to service anyways. I have those "white" spots on display, the covers are making funny noises when pressing the touchscreen etc.
Jun 28 12:14:19 <alterego> Shapeshifter: oh, not Nokia maps?
Jun 28 12:14:25 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK:  irreparable
Jun 28 12:14:36 <Shapeshifter> alterego: no, maep
Jun 28 12:14:50 <alterego> Shapeshifter: no idea then, maybe ask the author?
Jun 28 12:14:51 <ShadowJK> timeless_mbp, thanks
Jun 28 12:15:05 <alterego> Shapeshifter: or post to tmo and see if anyone else has.
Jun 28 12:15:26 <alterego> Shapeshifter: but they're biitmaps, gonna take some storage for a significant area ..
Jun 28 12:15:31 <ShadowJK> Appiah, so, um, two guys saying that the cable that came with their N900 works for both data transfer and charging?
Jun 28 12:15:46 <Appiah> ShadowJK: huh?
Jun 28 12:15:49 <alterego> D-Iivil: do you have an N810 or other Nokia handset?
Jun 28 12:15:49 <ShadowJK> and another saying a generic cheap cable from ebay works for both too
Jun 28 12:16:00 <Appiah> some do and some dont
Jun 28 12:16:04 <D-Iivil> alterego: No, unfortunately I don't :(
Jun 28 12:16:12 <alterego> D-Iivil: :(
Jun 28 12:16:14 <D-Iivil> It will be hard time to be apart from my N900 :-(
Jun 28 12:16:28 <ShadowJK> Appiah, unless the cable is broken, it depends entirely on what you connect it to.
Jun 28 12:16:54 <alterego> D-Iivil: I'm not sure what I'd do, I'd have to claim insurance as I'd get the replacement same day for the sake of 60 quid ..
Jun 28 12:16:54 <ShadowJK> There are a a TON of non-standard chargers out there that wont work, though..
Jun 28 12:17:09 <Shapeshifter> alterego: yeah I know. Ideally it should be able to generate bitmaps on demand from a pre-downloaded map data file. You know you can download areas from open streetmaps. that would be ideal
Jun 28 12:17:19 <alterego> D-Iivil: you can buy external chargers for our battery also btw.
Jun 28 12:17:20 <MiXu-> A friend of mine bought a cheap ass 350mA charger. Lol.
Jun 28 12:17:35 <MiXu-> He'll run out of juice while talking even if it's charging.
Jun 28 12:17:35 <D-Iivil> alterego: yeah, well.. in Nokia service center they also offer "fast repair" service. You pay like 30 euros and they will fix it asap.
Jun 28 12:17:38 <alterego> Shapeshifter: submit a feature request :)
Jun 28 12:17:48 <flux> alterego, I think some of those posters mya have confused the effect of the charging source with the charging cable
Jun 28 12:17:54 <D-Iivil> Otherwice you need to wait 1-3 weeks to get the device repaired.
Jun 28 12:17:59 <asj_> D-Iivil: a week wont' kill ya
Jun 28 12:18:20 <flux> alterego, some devices may just not provide enough juice for n900 to charge (while it's on), regardless of the cable
Jun 28 12:18:22 <D-Iivil> asj_: Yes it will! N900 has only internet connection I have @ home at the moment :D
Jun 28 12:18:39 <asj_> D-Iivil: suckage
Jun 28 12:18:51 <alterego> D-Iivil: yeah, service centres are usually pretty good anyway, if you don't rely on delivery and just take it to them. I've usually only had to wait two days max before popping back in the shop and picking it up. Though N900 is some what commoditized hardware..
Jun 28 12:18:55 <ShadowJK> flux, and some non-PC chargers don't identify themselves as chargers, so N900 ignores those..
Jun 28 12:19:00 <D-Iivil> And if I give up my phone for a week that means I actually have to talk and do something with my wife & kids instead of browsing talk.maemo.org :-O
Jun 28 12:19:00 <corecode> ShadowJK: fair enough, but how can the cable influence this handshake with the computer?
Jun 28 12:19:09 <ShadowJK> corecode, if it's broken it's broken
Jun 28 12:19:15 <alterego> D-Iivil: same boat for me, my home connection is my N900's 3G :)
Jun 28 12:19:19 <asj_> D-Iivil: pay the 30 euro
Jun 28 12:19:20 <corecode> ShadowJK: it is good for usb talking
Jun 28 12:19:32 <alterego> D-Iivil: luckily I've got a backup N96 and N95 8G
Jun 28 12:19:32 <ShadowJK> And if the PC refuses the PC refuses..
Jun 28 12:19:34 <corecode> ShadowJK: i.e. i can copy photos, mp3s
Jun 28 12:19:43 <corecode> same port, just different cable
Jun 28 12:20:02 <ShadowJK> Well it'd still for for data if the power lines were damaged
Jun 28 12:20:41 <corecode> yea
Jun 28 12:20:48 <corecode> but both cables?
Jun 28 12:20:59 <corecode> i need to measure it
Jun 28 12:21:14 <ShadowJK> I thought you had one working and one broken
Jun 28 12:21:14 <corecode> massively annoying
Jun 28 12:21:24 <corecode> i have two broken and one (nokia) working
Jun 28 12:21:30 <ShadowJK> ah
Jun 28 12:21:52 <corecode> didn't think that they could screw up just simple cables
Jun 28 12:22:15 <asj_> corecode: and you've tried without the powered hub?
Jun 28 12:22:30 <flux> put 5V/1A through the cables and check the resulting voltage :)
Jun 28 12:22:46 <asj_> 500ma
Jun 28 12:23:01 <corecode> asj_: i tried various usb ports
Jun 28 12:23:15 <corecode> different machines
Jun 28 12:23:38 <flux> corecode, have you charged other devices with the cables?
Jun 28 12:23:51 <flux> or run them usb-bus-powered?
Jun 28 12:25:22 <D-Iivil> Okay, called the chief at the Nokia service (had to spoke him one time earlier with N97 which was a REAL pain in the ass) and he said they could fix my N900 within one working day. Maybe I can live with it :)
Jun 28 12:25:32 <corecode> no, i don't have other micro-usb devices
Jun 28 12:26:14 <mirf> wow http://kibergus.su/en/node/39
Jun 28 12:26:31 <asj_> corecode: just use the working cable, there's a ton of reasons it could be giving you grief.  The computer might be selecting the 500ma config, the power at the device could be falling under 4.5v, who knows.
Jun 28 12:27:16 <corecode> well, i bought these cables for a reason
Jun 28 12:27:27 <corecode> so that i don't have to carry around ONE cable
Jun 28 12:28:15 <asj_> corecode: return em, as much as it pains me to say it, get a nokia cable
Jun 28 12:29:56 <corecode> for $30?
Jun 28 12:30:00 <corecode> for a cable?
Jun 28 12:30:14 <flux> corecode, because voltage drop as a function of resistance and current, it can just be that the cables aren't high-quality enough to transmit that much current without a significant voltage drop
Jun 28 12:30:24 <flux> (as a -> is a)
Jun 28 12:30:49 <flux> I mean, AFAIK there is no secret logic in nokia cables. they are just cables.
Jun 28 12:31:19 <flux> and they are connected the same as everything else and work as regular usb cables.
Jun 28 12:31:19 <corecode> 1 ohm eh
Jun 28 12:31:33 <corecode> 0.5V/0.5A
Jun 28 12:31:47 <corecode> that's quite a lot for a 50cm cable
Jun 28 12:31:55 <flux> it is indeed a lot
Jun 28 12:31:56 <ShadowJK> Does your nokia measure differently?
Jun 28 12:32:01 <ShadowJK> nokia cable*
Jun 28 12:32:09 <corecode> don't have my equip here
Jun 28 12:32:14 <corecode> need to measure at home
Jun 28 12:32:34 <ShadowJK> Where did you get 1ohm from? :)
Jun 28 12:34:57 <flux> meh, it's difficult to get a probe connected to those connectors
Jun 28 12:35:07 <ShadowJK> ya
Jun 28 12:35:46 <corecode> ShadowJK: 0.5V drop at 0.5A
Jun 28 12:35:51 <corecode> ShadowJK: is 1Ohm
Jun 28 12:35:51 <flux> on another 50cm usb cable the ground plave gave me 0.4-0.5 ohm
Jun 28 12:36:16 <flux> grounding that is
Jun 28 12:36:23 <corecode> wow
Jun 28 12:36:29 <flux> difficult to say what the resistance would be on the actual signal connectors, though
Jun 28 12:36:37 <flux> (this is not the nokia cable)
Jun 28 12:37:17 <flux> adding usb-connectors to the to-buy-list :)
Jun 28 12:38:32 <ShadowJK> corecode, are you comfortable with commandline?
Jun 28 12:38:37 <corecode> ShadowJK: always
Jun 28 12:38:43 <corecode> more than gui
Jun 28 12:39:33 <Jaffa> re
Jun 28 12:40:01 <alterego> Ahloha
Jun 28 12:40:09 <marmoute> :-)
Jun 28 12:41:30 <crashanddie> yo Jaffa, howzit?
Jun 28 12:41:52 <ShadowJK> corecode, cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mA
Jun 28 12:43:48 <corecode> 8
Jun 28 12:43:55 <corecode> weh?
Jun 28 12:44:20 <ShadowJK> lol
Jun 28 12:44:20 <corecode> jumps between 100 and 8
Jun 28 12:44:40 <ShadowJK> with non-nokia cable?
Jun 28 12:44:44 <corecode> yes
Jun 28 12:44:49 <corecode> nokia cable is 500
Jun 28 12:45:02 <ShadowJK> That's pretty weird :)
Jun 28 12:46:15 <Appiah> O_o
Jun 28 12:46:53 <SpeedEvil> 8 is one of the OTG states isn't it?
Jun 28 12:47:27 <ShadowJK> nfi
Jun 28 12:52:37 <crashanddie> damn, why is there never a troll around whilst I'm bored
Jun 28 12:52:51 <vldcnst> you can slap me.
Jun 28 12:52:51 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 12:53:06 * crashanddie gives an unconvinced slap to vldcnst 
Jun 28 12:53:13 <vldcnst> more!
Jun 28 12:53:17 <vldcnst> X-Fade: here?
Jun 28 12:53:20 * crashanddie goes in a corner and sings Operator Blues
Jun 28 12:53:28 <crashanddie> 'later
Jun 28 12:58:56 <timeless_mbp> corecode: 100 is basically unprovisioned usb device
Jun 28 12:59:04 <timeless_mbp> 500 is "usb device offered a service to the host"
Jun 28 12:59:13 <corecode> and 8?
Jun 28 12:59:23 <timeless_mbp> if the cable somehow prevents the host from seeing the offer, then getting 100 makes some sense
Jun 28 12:59:28 <timeless_mbp> dunno
Jun 28 12:59:34 <corecode> my point
Jun 28 12:59:43 <corecode> how is the offer communicated?
Jun 28 12:59:47 <Guest91128> err
Jun 28 12:59:49 * timeless_mbp shrugs
Jun 28 12:59:51 <corecode> power pins or data pins?
Jun 28 12:59:55 <timeless_mbp> surely the usb spec would explain?
Jun 28 12:59:59 <timeless_mbp> i'd assume data
Jun 28 13:00:38 <timeless_mbp> http://www.google.com/search?q=8ma%20usb%20otg&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Jun 28 13:00:51 <timeless_mbp> indicates that 8mA is definitely a magic number
Jun 28 13:05:58 <alterego> vote for my app, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/media-im-status-updater/0.4/
Jun 28 13:06:06 <alterego> do it and win 0!
Jun 28 13:06:39 <alterego> You need it because you're weak!
Jun 28 13:06:42 <MohammadAG> alterego, you do realize there's a 10 day quarantine right?
Jun 28 13:06:59 <tybollt> es
Jun 28 13:07:03 <alterego> That and, I'm not going to write my next app until this is through.
Jun 28 13:07:11 <tybollt> we don't want random people bringing rabies into our repo's
Jun 28 13:07:11 <alterego> MohammadAG: and.... :)
Jun 28 13:07:24 <MohammadAG> alterego, I'll vote on the 9th day
Jun 28 13:07:36 <MohammadAG> prolly 9.9th
Jun 28 13:07:43 <tybollt> by then god has created the world since long mohammad
Jun 28 13:07:47 <alterego> damn you, I'm not even sure when that is.
Jun 28 13:08:03 <MohammadAG> 2010-06-25 10:35 UTC
Jun 28 13:08:06 <alterego> That is probably a week wednesday, lame ...
Jun 28 13:08:13 <MohammadAG> add 9 days, and 0.9 x 24
Jun 28 13:08:38 <timeless_mbp> alterego: hrm
Jun 28 13:08:44 <timeless_mbp> didn't i vote for that?
Jun 28 13:08:49 <MohammadAG> he updated it
Jun 28 13:08:59 <alterego> timeless_mbp: probably the first version yeah.
Jun 28 13:09:20 <timeless_mbp> i seem to recall poking it last week
Jun 28 13:09:24 <alterego> MohammadAG: you lie, you just voted :P
Jun 28 13:09:32 <timeless_mbp> i voted for 0.2
Jun 28 13:09:38 <alterego> timeless_mbp: yes, I develop quickly :)
Jun 28 13:10:18 <alterego> This is the last release for a while, I'll be pushing 1.0 with the ui ported to Qt/C++ as Python/Pyside is annoyingly slow ..
Jun 28 13:10:30 <MohammadAG> release early, release often, release more bugs
Jun 28 13:10:45 <alterego> But I just want to get this dolne and dusted so I can safely move onto my next project without worrying about this one :)
Jun 28 13:10:45 <timeless_mbp> your package requires >5mb!
Jun 28 13:10:54 <MohammadAG> PySide does
Jun 28 13:10:58 <alterego> timeless_mbp: PySide ...
Jun 28 13:11:33 <MohammadAG> alterego, see? you force users to install pyside yet you refuse to install perl
Jun 28 13:11:34 <MohammadAG> :P
Jun 28 13:11:39 <alterego> Again, that will not be a problem in 1.0 as the deps for the config ui are already on device.
Jun 28 13:11:46 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 13:11:49 <MohammadAG> oh it's a monday, I'll say it again then, X-Fade ping? :)
Jun 28 13:12:12 <X-Fade> ignoring .... ;)
Jun 28 13:12:16 <alterego> hahah
Jun 28 13:12:46 <MohammadAG> yay :D
Jun 28 13:13:04 <X-Fade> wazzup?
Jun 28 13:13:11 <Ikarus> the weather is just meh awful
Jun 28 13:13:15 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, http://maemo.org/packages/view/perl-modules/, no maintainers, and apparently it wasn't pulled into -testing when I promoted frozen-bubble
Jun 28 13:13:37 <alterego> Probably a devel package for SDK
Jun 28 13:13:40 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Build-depends probably yes.
Jun 28 13:13:58 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, and this is ironic http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/perl/5.8.3-3osso11+0m5/
Jun 28 13:14:10 <MohammadAG> Repository: Maemo 5 device SSU repository (PR1.2)
Jun 28 13:14:15 <MohammadAG> Warning: This package has missing dependencies!
Jun 28 13:14:17 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: No that was just an import mistake by me.
Jun 28 13:14:36 <MohammadAG> lol
Jun 28 13:14:54 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, you could import perl-modules to that repo and fix your mistake :p
Jun 28 13:15:17 <X-Fade> Hmm wait, that one is weird.
Jun 28 13:15:21 <MohammadAG> btw it's non-free since optifying perl breaks it, but optifying perl-modules doesn't break it
Jun 28 13:15:47 <MohammadAG> and I'm not really sure how to optify one package that's made by a source which provides a lot of packages
Jun 28 13:15:56 <MohammadAG> most messed up sentence I've said ^
Jun 28 13:18:41 <vldcnst> X-Fade: May I pm you?
Jun 28 13:18:44 <MohammadAG> ~ping
Jun 28 13:18:45 <infobot> ~pong
Jun 28 13:19:45 <X-Fade> vldcnst: sure
Jun 28 13:20:41 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, actually, I have a suggestion, which looks like a proper fix, perl-modules is only 2MBs, dump my non-free upload and import the Fremantle SDK one into the SSU repo
Jun 28 13:20:58 <MohammadAG> having a free package in non-free is just wrong
Jun 28 13:21:18 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Yes, I'll ping the SDK team to see what is up with that package.
Jun 28 13:27:06 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, if you actually end up importing the SDK package, do you mind rejecting my maintainer request?
Jun 28 13:27:22 <X-Fade> Sure.
Jun 28 13:27:54 <MohammadAG> ty
Jun 28 13:30:12 <SpeedEvil> Is there any reason cpan on the device would do bad things?
Jun 28 13:32:02 <gomiam> :)
Jun 28 13:40:49 <MohammadAG> grr
Jun 28 13:40:54 <MohammadAG> just when I get dig working...
Jun 28 13:41:05 <MohammadAG> The following packages will be REMOVED:
Jun 28 13:41:05 <MohammadAG>   busybox-symlinks-dnsutils mp-fremantle-generic-pr
Jun 28 13:41:05 <MohammadAG> The following NEW packages will be installed:
Jun 28 13:41:05 <MohammadAG>   dnsutils libbind9-60 libdns64 libisc60 libisccc60 libisccfg60 liblwres60
Jun 28 13:42:01 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 13:42:35 <proycon> Does this sounds ok for full flash of the N900?
Jun 28 13:42:36 <proycon> flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f
Jun 28 13:42:36 <proycon> flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f
Jun 28 13:42:52 <proycon> EMMC second right? and no -R flags?
Jun 28 13:43:34 <MohammadAG> doesn't matter, don't use -R in both to be on the safe side, but the eMMC flash will get rid of everything on the 32GB chip
Jun 28 13:43:45 <MohammadAG> umm
Jun 28 13:43:47 <proycon> yeah
Jun 28 13:43:51 <MohammadAG> isn't that the old emmc image?
Jun 28 13:43:59 <proycon> hmm
Jun 28 13:44:05 <proycon> date looks odd indeed
Jun 28 13:44:08 <proycon> good you mention it
Jun 28 13:44:10 <proycon> let me check
Jun 28 13:44:17 <MohammadAG> 41-1, it's the old one
Jun 28 13:45:04 <haltdef> so is there an extended battery that behaves with the n900 out there yet? or am I best just buying another bl-5j and keeping one spare :|
Jun 28 13:45:46 <MohammadAG> I have 3 batteries, imo it's better than buying a Mugen one which the N900 can't properly use (shows full battery till it's dead)
Jun 28 13:45:47 <proycon> ah, right RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin
Jun 28 13:46:04 <MohammadAG> :)
Jun 28 13:46:05 <haltdef> yea, I've grown quite attached to the kickstand too
Jun 28 13:46:06 <proycon> ok, that's the one I had, I just copy/pasted the wrong thing :)
Jun 28 13:46:16 <MohammadAG> heh
Jun 28 13:47:16 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: you can show the proper capacity in a deskgop widget
Jun 28 13:47:20 <proycon> it says I can't power up in the meantime, so I can't first flash the PR_COMBINED, test, and then see if I still want to flash the EMMC?
Jun 28 13:47:35 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, so it's an applet problem?
Jun 28 13:48:10 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: well - ...
Jun 28 13:48:20 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: It's really a ssytem software problem.
Jun 28 13:48:26 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: but you can bypass it.
Jun 28 13:51:27 <ghostcube> hi folks, any news for ovi store update maybe, games apps anything
Jun 28 13:51:28 <ghostcube> :D
Jun 28 13:51:34 <GAN900> Retail--One of the more efficient means of developing a deep and abiding distate for humanity.
Jun 28 13:51:40 <CornishNerd> Hi guys, my N900 doesn't update the 'people nearby plugin for conversation and contacts'..any ideas pelase?
Jun 28 13:53:33 <mortini> GAN900: idk, i think working in a resturaunt/fast food resturaunt is worse.
Jun 28 13:53:50 <mortini> although, i guess i've never worked actual retail.
Jun 28 13:55:39 <alterego> It's dire
Jun 28 13:55:45 <GAN900> mortini, they're both pretty bad, I think
Jun 28 13:55:58 <GAN900> Restaurant work is surely more strenuous.
Jun 28 13:56:09 <mortini> people tend to be pretty abusive in a fast food environment.
Jun 28 13:56:15 <mortini> or, any resturaunt, i guess
Jun 28 13:56:16 <alterego> GAN900: vote for my app thanks :)
Jun 28 13:56:24 <mortini> treating people as 'servents'
Jun 28 13:57:04 <MohammadAG> alterego, I so want to kick you right now :P
Jun 28 13:57:23 <alterego> MohammadAG: why?
Jun 28 13:57:24 <GAN900> mortini, people have control issues, sadly.
Jun 28 13:57:36 <alterego> Because I'm annoyingly proactive? :P
Jun 28 13:57:45 <MohammadAG> yes :P
Jun 28 13:58:04 <GAN900> Power play
Jun 28 13:58:06 <Hoxzer> no
Jun 28 13:58:08 <MohammadAG> alterego, again, you'll have to wait 10 days, so why do you actually want all votes now
Jun 28 13:58:38 <MohammadAG> btw the 10 day thingy starts when you push the package to -testing, not when you reach 10 votes
Jun 28 13:58:45 <proycon> when the flash writing is done in the flasher program, shouldn't the device be ready immediately?
Jun 28 13:59:01 <MohammadAG> when you're done with both images type flasher-3.5 -R
Jun 28 13:59:05 <MohammadAG> or just unplug the cable :p
Jun 28 13:59:11 <proycon> I did the latter yeah
Jun 28 13:59:24 <proycon> I'll try the -R thing first
Jun 28 13:59:40 <alterego> MohammadAG: I understand, but getting the votes asap means I can move my focus else where.
Jun 28 14:00:00 <proycon> ah good, booting now
Jun 28 14:00:02 <alterego> I just like to keep things tidy :P
Jun 28 14:00:37 <mortini> alterego: which app?
Jun 28 14:00:53 <alterego> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/media-im-status-updater/0.4/
Jun 28 14:00:59 <mortini> ah
Jun 28 14:01:03 <alterego> mortini: ^
Jun 28 14:01:07 <alterego> :)
Jun 28 14:01:35 <proycon> hmm.. it's taking far too long to boot
Jun 28 14:01:49 <mortini> but how can i vote for something i haven't used!
Jun 28 14:01:50 <mortini> :D
Jun 28 14:01:50 <proycon> the loader/spinner thingie is running
Jun 28 14:01:56 <Scelt> http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Rob/newphone.png
Jun 28 14:02:04 <alterego> mortini: test it, then vote :)
Jun 28 14:02:11 <mortini> proycon: it'll take awhile to boot after flashing
Jun 28 14:02:21 <proycon> ok
Jun 28 14:02:22 <alterego> mortini: unless you really trust those that have tested and voted already.
Jun 28 14:02:24 <proycon> ah
Jun 28 14:02:24 <proycon> yeah!
Jun 28 14:02:26 <proycon> I'm in!
Jun 28 14:02:34 <proycon> wow :)
Jun 28 14:02:38 <proycon> and my sound is back!
Jun 28 14:02:42 <proycon> (that was the problem)
Jun 28 14:03:22 <ptmn> ÈÕÊ
Jun 28 14:03:50 <MohammadAG> <proycon> hmm.. it's taking far too long to boot
Jun 28 14:04:02 <alterego> MohammadAG: I know I probably come across as a shameless self promoter, but I really have nothing better to do this exact second.
Jun 28 14:04:02 <MohammadAG> first boot, it optifies stuff in /usr/share, so it's moving files :)
Jun 28 14:04:08 <proycon> ah, ok
Jun 28 14:04:12 <proycon> it should have told me that then :)
Jun 28 14:04:12 <greenmang0> hello friends.... i am looking for a iso or img file of maemo so that i can try it out on virtualbox.... but i didn't find it on maemo website... is such file available? and if not how can i try it on virtualbox?
Jun 28 14:04:21 <proycon> otherwise I panic :)
Jun 28 14:04:23 <MohammadAG> alterego, I'm just winding you up anyways
Jun 28 14:04:30 <alterego> MohammadAG: :)
Jun 28 14:04:53 <SpeedEvil> greenmang0: virtualbox will not work.
Jun 28 14:05:05 <SpeedEvil> greenmang0: virtualbox is x86 processor, maemo is arm
Jun 28 14:05:30 <MohammadAG> the one on the N900 anyways
Jun 28 14:05:47 <MohammadAG> the one that runs in the X86 target in scratchbox is X86, not ARM
Jun 28 14:05:56 <greenmang0> SpeedEvil: ok.. so there's no way i can try it on PC ?
Jun 28 14:06:10 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: yes - but that's not the full UI is it.
Jun 28 14:06:32 <MohammadAG> only the applets and some closed parts are missing
Jun 28 14:06:33 <SpeedEvil> greenmang0: You can try some aspects of it with the 'scratchbox' development systme.
Jun 28 14:06:42 <greenmang0> MohammadAG: that means i can try Scratchbox on VirtualBox
Jun 28 14:06:45 <MohammadAG> Ovi maps, nokia messaging etc..
Jun 28 14:06:58 <MohammadAG> just install scratchbox on a linux box
Jun 28 14:07:06 <SpeedEvil> this is not really aimed at providing a 'feel-alike' device really, though it may be good enough
Jun 28 14:07:16 <greenmang0> SpeedEvil: ok... but how? is there any iso/img available?
Jun 28 14:07:20 <MohammadAG> ~maemosdk
Jun 28 14:07:21 <infobot> rumour has it, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation
Jun 28 14:07:22 <SpeedEvil> scratchbox
Jun 28 14:07:34 <SpeedEvil> yeah - that
Jun 28 14:09:06 <greenmang0> SpeedEvil: well.. those links don't work
Jun 28 14:09:12 <greenmang0> MohammadAG: ^^
Jun 28 14:09:34 <MohammadAG> fix your internet connection
Jun 28 14:09:41 <MohammadAG> Documentation/Maemo 5 Final SDK Installation
Jun 28 14:10:47 <greenmang0> MohammadAG: ok... cool... it's working
Jun 28 14:10:48 <greenmang0> :)
Jun 28 14:11:07 <mortini> the installer script works pretty well, fwiw.
Jun 28 14:11:14 <mortini> at least, i ran it on a ubuntu 9.10 vm
Jun 28 14:11:54 <RST38h> OMG, Texrat has written yet *another* open letter
Jun 28 14:14:05 <proycon> Can I safely copy back .osso-abook and .purple from my manual backup, to get my IM accounts and contacts back?
Jun 28 14:14:24 <alterego> RST38h: yeah, read it. Not as to the bone as his previous one. and though I appreciate what he's tried to do with it, I'm not convinced it wont come across dead ears at Nokia.
Jun 28 14:14:52 * RST38h is convinced that nobody cares
Jun 28 14:17:25 <RST38h> Could someone put this into topic: http://posters-artprints-and-pictureframes.com/images_articles/dem-apathy.jpg
Jun 28 14:18:53 <mortini> heh.
Jun 28 14:20:47 <mortini> RST38h: applies to Google, as well
Jun 28 14:23:12 <RST38h> Applies to just about anyone, but is particularly exemplified by our belowed corporation
Jun 28 14:23:22 <RST38h> s/belowed/beloved
Jun 28 14:24:31 <mortini> yeah
Jun 28 14:25:31 <alterego> RST38h: I care .... By the way ... Vote for my app! :D
Jun 28 14:25:48 <crashanddie> RST38h: no
Jun 28 14:54:02 <tybollt> hmm
Jun 28 14:54:10 <tybollt> so I'm shopping for a nokia charger
Jun 28 14:54:21 <tybollt> or ehr a microusb charger
Jun 28 14:54:27 <tybollt> w >500mA output
Jun 28 14:54:37 <tybollt> like the one íncluded w/ the n900
Jun 28 14:54:47 <tybollt> seems the one at the store is 500 mA :(
Jun 28 14:54:51 <tybollt> why?
Jun 28 14:57:40 <flailingmonkey> because most devices support 500mA
Jun 28 14:58:28 <flailingmonkey> also, for dumb chargers, if they have not shorted out the data pins, my understanding is it won't fast charge
Jun 28 14:59:14 <flailingmonkey> how much is the Nokia one they include with the n900
Jun 28 15:00:11 <tybollt> 1200 mA
Jun 28 15:04:09 <flailingmonkey> i mean how much does it cost :P
Jun 28 15:04:44 <_0x47> amigadave: it turned out that the problem relatet my build errors were caused by the outdated package libsdl-mixer1.2-dev (1.2.6). I now created my own libsdl-mixer1.2-dev with 1.2.8 and it builds perfect :) I now have the problem that I cannot update the package in the repos to 1.2.8. the Autobuilder complains about it being there already...
Jun 28 15:05:03 <_0x47> omg excuse the spelling
Jun 28 15:05:35 <amigadave> _0x47: ah, great, glad you found the problem
Jun 28 15:06:24 <amigadave> i think you cannot upload it to the autobuilder because that packages is shipped with the device
Jun 28 15:06:35 <amigadave> s/packages/package/
Jun 28 15:06:36 <infobot> amigadave meant: i think you cannot upload it to the autobuilder because that package is shipped with the device
Jun 28 15:07:06 <flailingmonkey> it only exists in sdk, and has no maintainer
Jun 28 15:07:49 <MohammadAG51> updating it would break the sdk then
Jun 28 15:08:51 <MohammadAG51> playing with sdk packages isn't a smart move, as I did with man-db
Jun 28 15:08:57 <flailingmonkey> who maintains the sdk?
Jun 28 15:09:05 <_0x47> amigadave: I see, and someone already told me to contact X-Fade regarding this issue. But he was not responding until now, and finally's gone fishing...
Jun 28 15:09:26 <MohammadAG51> yes, i did
Jun 28 15:09:34 <_0x47> yes, indeed :D
Jun 28 15:10:05 <MohammadAG51> X-Fade responded to me today, but he pinged afaik
Jun 28 15:10:10 <_0x47> can we use the debian repos and do a apt-get dist-upgrade? lolz
Jun 28 15:10:22 <_0x47> pinged?
Jun 28 15:10:28 <MohammadAG51> ping timeout
Jun 28 15:11:04 <_0x47> hm k, I wrote him yesterday in hope that he might see it when he returns. but now he's offline as you said.
Jun 28 15:11:40 <_0x47> g2g anyways, so I'll try to catch him later.
Jun 28 15:11:46 <jacekowski> hmmm,
Jun 28 15:11:56 <jacekowski> it looks like cal is storing history of modifications
Jun 28 15:12:13 <_0x47> we really should somehow get updated packages on the phone, most of them are like 4-6 years old ffs...
Jun 28 15:12:14 <_0x47> bb
Jun 28 15:12:57 <D-Iivili> Does someone know how autofill nick name works in xchat (N900 port)?
Jun 28 15:13:37 <flailingmonkey> D-Iivili: for irssi it's Tab (which is on the xterm bar)
Jun 28 15:14:26 <D-Iivili> flailingmonkey, i was talking about xChat, not irssi ;)
Jun 28 15:16:53 <flailingmonkey> i know, but xchat is so much fail :(
Jun 28 15:17:01 <MohammadAG51> tap the title bar, settings, advanced, keyboard shortcuts, nick completion (5th line here), i have mine set to ctrl right
Jun 28 15:17:03 <mikki-kun> hm, anybody knowing the command to execute the nokia qt sdk suite?
Jun 28 15:17:17 <mortini> mikki-kun: you got  it installed?
Jun 28 15:17:25 <mikki-kun> mortini: yup
Jun 28 15:17:36 <D-Iivili> Mohammad, thanks again :) Thanking you is becoming a habit :P
Jun 28 15:17:38 <mortini> under pr1.2?
Jun 28 15:17:56 <mikki-kun> uhm... i am running that from pc...
Jun 28 15:18:32 <MohammadAG51> D-Iivili, lol yw
Jun 28 15:18:58 <mikki-kun> specifically from under gentoo without any DE or something called "start menu" where it would be "easily" accesible
Jun 28 15:19:26 * pahartik configured "X-Chat" on "Nokia N900" to use <Shift>-<Space> for "nickname completion"
Jun 28 15:19:47 <crashanddie> those are way too many quotes
Jun 28 15:20:39 <crashanddie> mikki-kun: you're using gentoo, you should know about the terminal, yeh?
Jun 28 15:21:36 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 28 15:21:38 <mortini> mikki-kun: oh. I think it's in /usr/share/qtsomething
Jun 28 15:21:44 <mortini> oh
Jun 28 15:21:51 <mikki-kun> crashanddie: i surely do, but as there is nowhere documentation of what the command is called for executing the nokia sdk i thought i would ask here before running to nokia and complaining about "sure it's nice to install it, but even giving readmes in html is a lil... old"
Jun 28 15:21:52 <mortini> um
Jun 28 15:22:03 <mikki-kun> thanks mortini, i'll give it a look
Jun 28 15:22:50 <crashanddie> mikki-kun: also, portage allows you to inspect which files are being installed, very helpful for packages with shady documentation
Jun 28 15:23:27 <mikki-kun> crashanddie: nokia sdk needs to be installed manually
Jun 28 15:23:31 <mortini> mikki-kun: /usr/share/doc/python-qt4-doc <- where it's installed under ubuntu anyways
Jun 28 15:23:32 <mikki-kun> no portage support there...
Jun 28 15:23:40 <crashanddie> mikki-kun: ah, shame
Jun 28 15:24:59 <mikki-kun> mehhh, still can't find it...
Jun 28 15:25:24 <mikki-kun> i'll search for sdk now...
Jun 28 15:26:39 <MohammadAG51> where are control files store again?
Jun 28 15:26:42 <MohammadAG51> stored*
Jun 28 15:27:17 <mortini> in /etc?
Jun 28 15:27:39 <MohammadAG51> err...
Jun 28 15:29:05 <MohammadAG51> nvm
Jun 28 15:34:13 <Lantizia> Hey you know the FM transmitter, any chance I can get it to transmit on a frequency other than those preprogrammed?
Jun 28 15:34:22 <Lantizia> I have cordless FM headphones and would like to pick up the N900
Jun 28 15:34:57 <mikki-kun> can somebody do me a favor and execute his qt sdk, check what the process is called and tell me?
Jun 28 15:35:03 <Lantizia> http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/s/shc8525_00/shc8525_00_pss_eng.pdf
Jun 28 15:35:14 <Lantizia> 863.0 - 865.0 MHz
Jun 28 15:35:26 <crashanddie> Lantizia: no way in hell
Jun 28 15:35:30 <Lantizia> crashanddie, how come?
Jun 28 15:35:48 <crashanddie> Lantizia: antenna design? chipset design?
Jun 28 15:36:03 <flailingmonkey> Lantizia: rofl. FX transmitter calls don't go above 180 MHz
Jun 28 15:36:25 <Lantizia> flailingmonkey, argue against that datasheet then - have fun
Jun 28 15:36:51 <Lantizia> crashanddie, you've used question marks, how come?  I'd have thought a chipset design wouldn't hamper which frequency - isn't it just a matter of tuning?
Jun 28 15:37:03 <Lantizia> an FM transmitter is an FM transmitter surely - just a matter of distance
Jun 28 15:37:13 <Jartza> has anyone run into same problem as I have? I get no sound notification when new sms is received
Jun 28 15:37:22 <crashanddie> Lantizia: where did you see FM in that document?
Jun 28 15:37:24 <Jartza> I tried to search for bug database but couldn't find anything
Jun 28 15:37:37 <Lantizia> crashanddie, page 2 where it says Modulation
Jun 28 15:37:37 <crashanddie> oh, second page, on the right
Jun 28 15:37:44 <mikki-kun> Jartza: maybe you have your sound for sms muted?
Jun 28 15:37:55 <achipa> Lantizia: don't mix modulation with frequency
Jun 28 15:38:08 <crashanddie> Lantizia: you do realise that the size and shape of the antenna defines what frequencies you can receive/transmit on?
Jun 28 15:38:10 <Lantizia> achipa, I'm not, your not... hands up anyone who is
Jun 28 15:38:11 <Jartza> mikki-kun: nope
Jun 28 15:38:27 <Lantizia> crashanddie, no, but now I do - do we know for sure the N900 is thus incapable?
Jun 28 15:38:34 <flailingmonkey> Lantizia: I thought you wanted a a value 10x higher
Jun 28 15:38:38 <Lantizia> this is discover you know :)
Jun 28 15:38:42 <Lantizia> *discovery
Jun 28 15:38:46 <achipa> 800MHz is not even VHF
Jun 28 15:38:48 <Jartza> mikki-kun: I've set the volume to max for sms. still nothing.
Jun 28 15:38:52 <mikki-kun> hm, maybe changing the sound to another one, saving and then picking the old one could help
Jun 28 15:39:15 <Jartza> when the "conversation" is open, I get a small "plop", but that's not what I want.
Jun 28 15:39:17 <flailingmonkey> Lantizia: it almost certainly should be 86.3 - 86.5 MHz
Jun 28 15:39:21 <Lantizia> achipa, well it can still be Frequency Modulation without being what we know as commercial FM
Jun 28 15:39:27 <Lantizia> flailingmonkey, ditto as above
Jun 28 15:39:42 <Jartza> if "conversations" is closed, then there is nothing. no sound, no notification light.
Jun 28 15:39:53 <Jartza> the message "just appears" to conversations.
Jun 28 15:39:55 <crashanddie> Lantizia: considering that the mid-point of normal FM is roughly 97.5, the engineers would probably have designed it to have it's optimal range aroudn there somewhere. So, even if you could connect something that were able to transmit at 800 Mhz, the antenna would be as effective as your finger, or a piece of wood.
Jun 28 15:40:00 <Jartza> and this is PR1.2
Jun 28 15:40:05 <mikki-kun> hm... doesn't sound too funny tbh.. sorry, i am a lil out of ideas then
Jun 28 15:40:22 <albanc> How to detect from a script whether it is a maemo device (maemo5 or maemo6) or a linux desktop?
Jun 28 15:40:31 <lcuk> crashanddie, technically the size and shape of the antenna defines the optimal properites, you can use a paperclip as antenna to transmit almost any frequency, however it will be wasteful and not get the distance of a tuned coathanger :p
Jun 28 15:40:36 <Lantizia> crashanddie, you think the FM trasmitter that came with the headphones is much bigger? it isn't
Jun 28 15:40:42 <Jartza> I tried even hard reboot, but no help
Jun 28 15:40:54 <mikki-kun> albanc: one easy way is via "uname -a"
Jun 28 15:41:02 <Lantizia> lcuk, tell me your more hopeful :)
Jun 28 15:41:05 <achipa> Lantizia: you can tweak the oscillators all you want, but that range is NOT for the FM transmitter chip. Even if you could set up the multipliers for a high enough frequence (which I doubt), the antenna design is way off, so... you'll either burn it or it will be mute
Jun 28 15:41:07 <mikki-kun> locally of course...
Jun 28 15:41:09 <crashanddie> Lantizia: it doesn't have to be bigger, it has to be at the right size/ratio
Jun 28 15:41:17 <lcuk> Lantizia, i dunno what you are doing so cant say
Jun 28 15:41:34 <crashanddie> Lantizia: for the same reason that a can of beef is excellent as a wifi antenna, but not a can of potatochips
Jun 28 15:41:40 <achipa> crashanddie: worse, actually, than your finger, prolly :)
Jun 28 15:41:46 <Lantizia> lcuk, get the N900 to transmit between 863.0 - 865.0 MHz for my cordless headphones
Jun 28 15:41:48 <crashanddie> achipa: true
Jun 28 15:42:02 <lcuk> Lantizia, doubt it
Jun 28 15:42:19 <mikki-kun> hey, fingers are pretty good in destroying phone signals... at least when it's an apple iphone 4 ^^
Jun 28 15:42:22 <lcuk> most tuning circuits operate in their frequency range and require real mods to change
Jun 28 15:42:23 <crashanddie> Lantizia: combine this with the fact that frequencies are defined by say, the hardware components of something (look up capacitors on wikipedia), and you end up with the n900 being *completely* unable to transmit at those frequencies (even if you had unlimited access to the firmware of the chip)
Jun 28 15:42:27 <lbt_> Jaffa: pingy
Jun 28 15:42:30 <lcuk> the antenna itself was what i had issue iwth
Jun 28 15:43:20 <Lantizia> hmm ok discovery over :)
Jun 28 15:43:25 <Lantizia> just a thought
Jun 28 15:43:34 <crashanddie> then don't argue the opposite
Jun 28 15:43:48 * MohammadAG51 hands crashanddie a coffee
Jun 28 15:43:52 <crashanddie> thanks
Jun 28 15:43:53 <flailingmonkey> Lantizia: still, my original point was that the way that the FM transmitter interfaces with the chip, it's input has an upper range limit of 180, so you'd also have to write a new driver
Jun 28 15:43:57 <Lantizia> crashanddie, now now lets not get impolite
Jun 28 15:44:01 <Lantizia> I wasn't arguing anything
Jun 28 15:44:08 <lcuk> albanc, im betting you could find device arch from within qt
Jun 28 15:44:14 <Lantizia> flailingmonkey, ok
Jun 28 15:44:26 <crashanddie> Lantizia: hardly impolite, but whatever, let's move on
Jun 28 15:44:28 <Jaffa> lbt_: pongy
Jun 28 15:44:33 <flailingmonkey> leaving all that crazy antenna stuff to those hardware geeks :P
Jun 28 15:44:40 <Jaffa> crashanddie: sorry I missed you earlier. In sunny Stockholm
Jun 28 15:44:54 <crashanddie> Jaffa: I asked howzit, not where are you :P
Jun 28 15:45:16 <Jartza> it's quite annoying because I use sms a lot
Jun 28 15:45:28 <crashanddie> flailingmonkey: ever used the hardware keyboard on the N900?
Jun 28 15:45:29 <Jartza> and my phone doesn't tell when I receive one :P
Jun 28 15:45:55 <flailingmonkey> crashanddie: all the time
Jun 28 15:45:57 <achipa> Lantizia: think about it this way - why is it such a fuss to make a quad-petaband phone if you could tweak frequencies and modulations that easy ?
Jun 28 15:46:00 <crashanddie> flailingmonkey: OMG YOU BLOODY HARDWARE GEEK!!!eleven!
Jun 28 15:46:18 <MohammadAG51> LOL you had that pretyped
Jun 28 15:46:19 <MohammadAG51> :P
Jun 28 15:46:42 <crashanddie> indeed
Jun 28 15:47:00 <crashanddie> isn't everything we say on IRC "pre-typed"?
Jun 28 15:47:04 <Lantizia> achipa, true... you know years back I remember reading in a magazine someone was making a smallish univeral transmitter/receiver to basically roll things like BT/GSM/WiFi/FM/etc in to one - never knew what came of it
Jun 28 15:47:06 <crashanddie> I mean, it's typed before we hit enter
Jun 28 15:47:16 <lbt_> Jaffa: PM'ed you
Jun 28 15:47:25 <crashanddie> Lantizia: sounds like vaporware, really
Jun 28 15:47:38 <MohammadAG51> crashanddie, no, I hit enter then start typing
Jun 28 15:47:45 <flailingmonkey> Lantizia: actually, there is quite a bit of documentation on the N900 components in the wiki. I'm sure you can find detailed info about the FM transmitter chip there
Jun 28 15:47:51 <Lantizia> would be cool though, your method of radio communication would become a matter of software
Jun 28 15:48:01 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51: that's because you write right to left :P
Jun 28 15:48:03 <Lantizia> flailingmonkey, no I believe you all :)
Jun 28 15:48:15 <MohammadAG51> crashanddie, nope, I reinvented typing!
Jun 28 15:48:39 <crashanddie> I wouldn't mind my sentences being auto-submitted as soon as I stop typing for 2 or more seconds
Jun 28 15:48:44 <haltdef> anywhere cheaper than nokia directly for a genuine replacement battery or is that just how much bl-5j's cost :<
Jun 28 15:48:56 <mortini> Lantizia: there's some project out there that's made a 'universal' radio transmitter that can send/recieve on any frequency. it's just not overly legal in the US
Jun 28 15:49:08 <crashanddie> haltdef: you can get !nice chinese replacements, that will be very !awesome.
Jun 28 15:49:27 <MohammadAG51> crashanddie, what if you're thinking about what you typed :p
Jun 28 15:49:34 <haltdef> heh, I did say genuine :P
Jun 28 15:49:38 <Kegetys> gnu radio?
Jun 28 15:49:43 <Lantizia> crashanddie, i really !like you alot
Jun 28 15:49:53 <Lantizia> :P
Jun 28 15:49:59 <crashanddie> Lantizia: i love you too
Jun 28 15:50:04 <E0x> i was using mapero the last saturday i am set a route then suddenly a voice come out in italian , left turn
Jun 28 15:50:10 <Lantizia> awww
Jun 28 15:50:15 <E0x> i was like o_O
Jun 28 15:50:18 * MohammadAG51 plays wedding music
Jun 28 15:50:31 <E0x> where ican change the language  of that i never set it in italian
Jun 28 15:51:03 <rafaelbrandao> I need to backport usb stack from a recent kernel on my n810... could anyone help me?
Jun 28 15:51:20 * crashanddie runs to the hifi and changes the song to Beckham's Ode: "Oy, Beckham, how's Posh? Doooes she taaaaake it uuup the aaaarse???"
Jun 28 15:51:31 <trip0> wifi sucks on my n900 :(
Jun 28 15:52:13 <MohammadAG51> rofl crashanddie
Jun 28 15:52:20 <crashanddie> Nokia is really acting more and more stupid with the MyNokia shit
Jun 28 15:52:40 <MohammadAG51> crashanddie, isn't this a family channel?
Jun 28 15:52:51 <crashanddie> and?
Jun 28 15:53:13 <MohammadAG51> your last /me?
Jun 28 15:53:23 <crashanddie> http://www.google.com/search?q=define:aaaarse
Jun 28 15:53:27 <mortini> trip0: http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_power_saving_mode
Jun 28 15:53:58 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 28 15:53:58 <mikki-kun> crashanddie: not found...
Jun 28 15:54:00 <trip0> mortini, you are the awesome
Jun 28 15:54:06 <crashanddie> mikki-kun: my point exactly ;)
Jun 28 15:54:12 <crashanddie> mikki-kun: it wasn't a swearword :D
Jun 28 15:54:20 <mikki-kun> remove the first 3 a then you know what you have...
Jun 28 15:54:41 <crashanddie> hey, now you're putting words in my mouth, I never used such a rude word.
Jun 28 15:54:41 <Lantizia> anyone made a cradle for the N900 yet btw that anyone knows of?  preferably one that can charge a 2nd battery
Jun 28 15:54:50 <MohammadAG51> LOL
Jun 28 15:54:56 <mikki-kun> problem is, nearly every other word is "longend" therefore you gotta also think that way and those long vocals get shortend to just one and that means you're busted...
Jun 28 15:55:15 <crashanddie> does it?
Jun 28 15:55:33 <mikki-kun> i'd say so
Jun 28 15:55:42 <crashanddie> :(
Jun 28 15:55:43 * MohammadAG51 votes for a kick
Jun 28 15:55:53 <mikki-kun> ahhh, no kick :(
Jun 28 15:56:13 <mikki-kun> :D
Jun 28 15:56:15 <mikki-kun> muhahaha
Jun 28 15:56:28 <mikki-kun> now that is... kinda disturbing
Jun 28 15:56:29 <MohammadAG51> argh, i was just setting up a party cause you left
Jun 28 15:56:39 <crashanddie> I saw you snaking for the kick, I couldn't let my fans down
Jun 28 15:56:57 <MohammadAG51> now a permanent kickban pwease
Jun 28 15:57:24 <jacekowski>  /kickban MohammadAG51
Jun 28 15:57:29 <crashanddie> nha, that's too disruptive
Jun 28 15:57:38 <Surfa> nice show.. but can't locate fun at all
Jun 28 15:57:38 <mikki-kun> that's a lil overkill i'd say
Jun 28 15:58:03 <crashanddie> kickbans always cause +m on the channel as long I'm away and stuff, not fun for anyone
Jun 28 15:58:04 <Jartza> gnah
Jun 28 15:58:20 <Jartza> nothing. I get no sound of sms.
Jun 28 15:58:22 <crashanddie> unless MohammadAG51, but he's laughing as soon as you say pee-pee poo-poo
Jun 28 15:58:24 <Jartza> annoying.
Jun 28 15:58:35 <MohammadAG51> crashanddie, err?
Jun 28 15:58:37 <crashanddie> s/unless/except
Jun 28 16:06:12 <rookie2010> hi i have a question for everybody, how i make a full backup of my n810
Jun 28 16:08:07 <iPeter-> Hi
Jun 28 16:08:17 <iPeter-> Is it possible to call with that android thing
Jun 28 16:09:05 <MohammadAG51> no, not yet, and #nitdroid-help
Jun 28 16:12:03 <iPeter-> MohammadAG51: Okay, thanks of info. Going still to ask in here, is it possible to have it on dualboot
Jun 28 16:12:45 <Jartza> does anyone has any suggestions what to try out when I don't get any sms-sounds?
Jun 28 16:12:56 <Jartza> I tried changing the tone, changing the volume etc.
Jun 28 16:13:07 <Jartza> still just silence when the message appears
Jun 28 16:13:08 <crashanddie> Jartza: did you reboot?
Jun 28 16:13:11 <Jartza> yes
Jun 28 16:13:14 <Jartza> did hard reboot
Jun 28 16:13:25 <crashanddie> did you change the profile?
Jun 28 16:13:29 <Jartza> yes
Jun 28 16:13:33 <Jartza> to silent and back
Jun 28 16:13:35 <MohammadAG51> iPeter-, this is called #maemo, not #nitdroid-help
Jun 28 16:13:39 <Lantizia> do the sound files even exist?
Jun 28 16:13:44 <Jartza> yes :)
Jun 28 16:13:44 <MohammadAG51> stay on topic
Jun 28 16:13:46 <iPeter-> Jartza: Do you have MediaPlayer on
Jun 28 16:13:57 <Jartza> they are played in settings -> profile
Jun 28 16:14:01 <iPeter-> MohammadAG51: I know, lol. But it seems to be non active
Jun 28 16:14:04 <Lantizia> is alsamixer showing everything is up?
Jun 28 16:14:09 <Jartza> I can hear the tones loud and clear
Jun 28 16:14:21 <Jartza> no mediaplayer. this happens even after boot.
Jun 28 16:14:32 <rookie2010> who recomends n900
Jun 28 16:14:36 <iPeter-> i do
Jun 28 16:14:48 <Jartza> Lantizia: alsamixer only shows "Master"...
Jun 28 16:14:51 <iPeter-> rookie2010: I recommend N900 (;
Jun 28 16:15:12 <rookie2010> and the repositories
Jun 28 16:15:27 <rookie2010> i have a question how i can install the app in other folder
Jun 28 16:15:35 <Jartza> but master is at 100% and not muted
Jun 28 16:15:50 <MohammadAG51> you don't, it's not symbian
Jun 28 16:16:55 <Jartza> I've had this problem since the beginning.
Jun 28 16:17:10 <crashanddie> Jartza: have you tried reflashing?
Jun 28 16:17:12 <Jartza> actually, I think I've heard the sms-sound once or twice :P
Jun 28 16:17:23 <Jartza> crashanddie: that I haven't tried, no.
Jun 28 16:18:05 <Jartza> this is almost mint phone. just updated to PR1.2
Jun 28 16:21:37 <Jartza> I might try reflashing then
Jun 28 16:22:15 <Jartza> although PR1.2 update went just smoothly
Jun 28 16:22:33 <MohammadAG51> argh, lost my scratchbox install on my laptop :/
Jun 28 16:24:30 <mikki-kun> oh my...
Jun 28 16:24:42 <mikki-kun> i want the source for maemo-sdk -.-
Jun 28 16:25:04 <MohammadAG51> ~maemosdk
Jun 28 16:25:06 <infobot> maemosdk is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation
Jun 28 16:25:26 <mikki-kun> MohammadAG51: sourcecode which install via checking which versions of libs i have
Jun 28 16:25:44 <mikki-kun> now it want libpng12... i have libpng14...
Jun 28 16:27:45 <marcus> Heya guys, when programming an application for vertical view (on n900), how do you do that? Do you program the app so it's kind of rotated?
Jun 28 16:30:06 <MiXu-> Qt has built in support for rotation. So you don't really need to do much.
Jun 28 16:30:24 <andre__> marcus, http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets#Portrait_Mode
Jun 28 16:31:53 <marcus> MiXu-: Unfortunately, I'm starting out with pyGTK so far.
Jun 28 16:32:27 <MiXu-> marcus: Are you just starting or do you have an existing project already?
Jun 28 16:32:32 <rookie2010> i dont have enough memory how i can install the app to another folder
Jun 28 16:32:59 <marcus> MiXu-: Starting. TBH I thought QT looked a little harder than gtk.
Jun 28 16:33:31 <nomis> marcus: it is not a question of the toolkit, the application just needs to a) tell the x-server that it requests Portrait mode and b) listen to what the X-server tells it.
Jun 28 16:33:48 <nomis> marcus: andre__ has the relevant link.
Jun 28 16:33:50 <E0x> that scratchbox debian repositories is give me this error: .....(stdin) is not a bzip2 file....
Jun 28 16:33:52 <MiXu-> marcus: I strongly suggest you forget about GTK. Future-wise Qt is a better bet on Maemo/MeeGo.
Jun 28 16:34:13 <MiXu-> Go with pyQt if you don't like C++.
Jun 28 16:34:25 <lcuk> marcus, you as app designer should just think about your UX layouts being 480*800 or other portraity variations
Jun 28 16:34:37 <andre__> MeeGo supports both Qt and GTK, with Qt as default...
Jun 28 16:34:41 <marcus> MiXu-: I can only agree with you on that, and I do like C++, but I like the possibility to edit the application while being on the n900.
Jun 28 16:35:12 <marcus> lcuk: Yeah, I thought that was how it worked. I just need to look a little more on that link to find out how to tell the x-server it is in portrait.
Jun 28 16:35:16 * nomis does not trust people who like C++.
Jun 28 16:35:27 <MiXu-> andre__: Yes, it does. But I'm pretty sure that life will be easier for a MeeGo Qt developer than for a GTK developer.
Jun 28 16:35:28 <lcuk> sure
Jun 28 16:35:39 <andre__> heh, true - might be
Jun 28 16:35:41 * marcus has been doing Visual Basic and Delphi before, but think C++ is better for his needs
Jun 28 16:35:42 <lcuk> nomis, sometimes c++ is a decent thing to have
Jun 28 16:35:43 <lcuk> :p
Jun 28 16:36:00 <MohammadAG51> most of the times, it's not :P
Jun 28 16:36:01 <jonne> does anyone have recommendations for replacemend headphones for the n900?
Jun 28 16:36:16 * RST38h uses BH-905, they are good
Jun 28 16:36:17 <jonne> should i get the same ones or is there a better option?
Jun 28 16:36:22 <marcus> Can't do much with Visual Basic and Delphi (we do have Lazarus though) on Linux.
Jun 28 16:36:26 <MiXu-> Do you need a mic?
Jun 28 16:36:28 <RST38h> expensive and tend to fall off though
Jun 28 16:36:32 <lcuk> jonne, depends on your needs
Jun 28 16:36:34 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 28 16:36:35 <jonne> not really
Jun 28 16:36:48 * lcuk uses visual basic on linux
Jun 28 16:36:50 <MiXu-> If you don't need a mic then _any_ normal headphones will do.
Jun 28 16:36:51 <RST38h> Southwing makes cheap, semidecent headphones
Jun 28 16:36:53 <jonne> barely used the mic, tbh
Jun 28 16:36:55 <MohammadAG51> i wanted a BH-505, but Nokia in JO is kinda f'd up
Jun 28 16:37:00 <rookie2010> the n900 support video conference with skype
Jun 28 16:37:02 <MiXu-> You have about one million options :)
Jun 28 16:37:08 <RST38h> Mohammad: Got mine at discount from Amazon
Jun 28 16:37:09 <nomis> lcuk: I don't trust you, then  :)
Jun 28 16:37:14 <lcuk> lol nomis
Jun 28 16:37:15 <marcus> lcuk: Oooh, pretty! What is it called?
Jun 28 16:37:23 <jonne> anyt headphones will do then? will they work with the radio thing?
Jun 28 16:37:24 <lcuk> pretty?
Jun 28 16:37:25 <marcus> Wait
Jun 28 16:37:26 <MiXu-> I've been pretty happy with Sennheiser PMX-40 and Creative EP-630
Jun 28 16:37:28 <lcuk> its called visual basic..
Jun 28 16:37:31 <marcus> That didn't turn out right.
Jun 28 16:37:31 <jonne> because i occasionally use that
Jun 28 16:37:32 <marcus> Exactly.
Jun 28 16:37:34 * marcus slaps himself.
Jun 28 16:37:39 <lcuk> i run it in windows but it does stuff for linux
Jun 28 16:37:41 <MiXu-> Both of them are relatively cheap
Jun 28 16:37:51 <RST38h> Mohammad: If it is any consolation, they appear to have problems terminating calls with N900
Jun 28 16:37:54 * lcuk gets c code out of vb
Jun 28 16:37:57 <marcus> lcuk: So you aren't compiling it on linux?
Jun 28 16:38:03 <MohammadAG51> RST38h, the 505?
Jun 28 16:38:09 <RST38h> Call->Music transition sometimes freaks them out (never happened to me though)
Jun 28 16:38:11 <RST38h> No, 905
Jun 28 16:38:12 <lcuk> marcus im compiling the generated c code on linux
Jun 28 16:38:18 <MohammadAG51> oh, read about those
Jun 28 16:38:18 <lcuk> but i use visual basic to layout things
Jun 28 16:38:31 <RST38h> lcuk: Switch to Qt already
Jun 28 16:38:32 <marcus> lcuk: aha
Jun 28 16:38:35 <MohammadAG51> RST38h, you got me confused, I said 505 :P
Jun 28 16:38:43 <RST38h> lcuk: Stop this atrocity =)
Jun 28 16:38:49 <RST38h> Mohammad: Ah, sorry
Jun 28 16:38:52 <lcuk> RST38h, does the qt designer do plugins
Jun 28 16:38:52 <MohammadAG51> Qt is the devil's spawn
Jun 28 16:38:52 <MiXu-> BH-204 isn't bad either. Not super high quality, but light and nice plugs.
Jun 28 16:39:04 <lcuk> does it make like SIMPLE
Jun 28 16:39:08 <lcuk> life
Jun 28 16:39:11 <MiXu-> No, sorry. I meant BH-214
Jun 28 16:39:11 <RST38h> lcuk: afaik, it should
Jun 28 16:39:26 <RST38h> Mohammad: I would feel uncomfortable in 505
Jun 28 16:39:34 <MohammadAG51> RST38h, why's that?
Jun 28 16:40:35 <nomis> lcuk: if you want to see the atrocities withing C++: here is a starting point: http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/defective.html
Jun 28 16:40:41 <RST38h> Hehehehe: http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/06/28/how-do-you-hold-your-nokia/
Jun 28 16:40:49 <RST38h> Mohammad: they plug into your ears
Jun 28 16:41:47 <MohammadAG51> RST38h, the stock ones are likes that too
Jun 28 16:42:17 <Jartza> duh
Jun 28 16:42:29 <Jartza> there's a bit too many images in the fw-download page :)
Jun 28 16:42:43 <Jartza> and do I have to reflash eMMC too?
Jun 28 16:44:15 <RST38h> Mohammad: not using them, for exactly this reason
Jun 28 16:45:42 <Jartza> so I have to download the eMMC "latest" and "latest maemo 5 global release" as I'm in finland?
Jun 28 16:47:17 <MiXu-> Unless your eMMC is "broken" somehow, you don't need to flash it.
Jun 28 16:50:10 <Jartza> I don't know what's broken, but the problem still is that I don't get any SMS sounds.
Jun 28 16:50:42 <Jartza> and I've tried everything so far. the SMS just appears in conversations, but no notification sounds, whatever I do
Jun 28 16:51:41 <RST38h> China Based Company now does iPad app development too
Jun 28 16:52:12 <RST38h> Freaking spammers
Jun 28 16:53:49 <RST38h> moo vdvsx
Jun 28 16:54:23 <VDVsx> hey RST38h :)
Jun 28 16:55:42 <Venemo> good afternoon!
Jun 28 16:55:52 <rafaelbrandao> hello :)
Jun 28 16:56:19 <SpeedEvil> Lantizia: Fundamentally - the delicious SDR is a lie.
Jun 28 16:56:27 <RST38h> VDVsx: Do you know anything about OpenGLES or PowerVR?
Jun 28 16:56:33 * RST38h has got a technical question
Jun 28 16:56:39 <rafaelbrandao> I've got this while running a lib here: "Unsupported ioctl: cmd=0x40085511" any ideas?
Jun 28 16:56:43 <SpeedEvil> Lantizia: You can in principle roll every radio in the n900 into one 4GHz A/D and D/A, and a DSP.
Jun 28 16:56:52 <jacekowski> rafaelbrandao: run it on normal platform
Jun 28 16:56:59 <jacekowski> rafaelbrandao: not in scratchbox
Jun 28 16:57:04 <rafaelbrandao> seriously?? :o
Jun 28 16:57:05 <VDVsx> RST38h, nop, little of OGL only
Jun 28 16:57:06 <SpeedEvil> Lantizia: It will be hard to lift, and use maybe 1000W.
Jun 28 16:57:18 <jacekowski> rafaelbrandao: qemu can't emulate that ioctl
Jun 28 16:57:21 <rafaelbrandao> you just made my day, jacekowski.
Jun 28 16:57:26 <rafaelbrandao> my hero :D
Jun 28 16:57:40 <rafaelbrandao> I was thining on that but how could I guess :D thanks
Jun 28 16:58:13 <SpeedEvil> Lantizia: there is progress going on in integrating multiple radios into the same package - but these are generally _not_ SDR - they are radios that are designed to work together. For example, the n900 has bluetooth+FM radio in one package. There exist bluetooth + FM radio + wifi in the same package.
Jun 28 16:59:58 <Lantizia> SpeedEvil, interesting info
Jun 28 17:00:02 * Lantizia reads up on SDR
Jun 28 17:00:03 <flailingmonkey> SDR would be an exceptionally disruptive tech
Jun 28 17:00:15 <flailingmonkey> delicious disruption
Jun 28 17:00:19 <Lantizia> hurrah! they're the best kind
Jun 28 17:01:07 <SpeedEvil> SDR works. It's just that with current tech it uses (often) 10-1000 times the power of a 'proper' radio in hardware.
Jun 28 17:01:35 <SpeedEvil> A point I often use is that a properly shaped bit of crystal can do 5 billion floating point calculations a second on a nanowatt.
Jun 28 17:03:07 <flailingmonkey> i'll order up some reconfigurable materials then
Jun 28 17:08:23 <marcus> MiXu-: ImportError: No module named qt /cry
Jun 28 17:08:45 <marcus> MiXu-: I do have pyqt4 and qt installed though. Running Arch Linux here.
Jun 28 17:09:15 <SpeedEvil> Lantizia: To answer your initial question - the FM transmitter can transmit in the range of (IIRC) 70-110MHz or so. Absolutely not on 800.
Jun 28 17:10:09 <frals> vrooooom
Jun 28 17:10:13 <Lantizia> ok ok !
Jun 28 17:10:16 <frals> going from 100mbit to 1mbit is A W E S O M E!
Jun 28 17:23:59 <flailingmonkey> frals: depends on how restricted/filtered the 100mbit is, like my work connection
Jun 28 17:30:27 <alterego> Are you bored and looking for something to do?
Jun 28 17:30:49 <MohammadAG51> no
Jun 28 17:32:29 <alterego> Do you wish you could be a champion in the maemo community?
Jun 28 17:32:44 <alterego> Do you enjoy working with fun new peices of software?
Jun 28 17:33:08 <MohammadAG51> no one wants to vote for your app, take a hint
Jun 28 17:33:28 <alterego> Well, I've got just the thing for you all, test my package: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/media-im-status-updater/0.4/
Jun 28 17:34:02 <alterego> MohammadAG51: lies, everyone is jumping at the opportunity, remember kids, there's only four more slots, so hurry up!!!
Jun 28 17:34:32 <alterego> This is a once in a life time opportunity!
Jun 28 17:34:59 <MohammadAG51> alterego, you don't have anything better to do, do you...
Jun 28 17:35:27 <lcuk> alterego, does it update to my geocities page?
Jun 28 17:35:46 <MohammadAG51> wasn't geocities shut down lol
Jun 28 17:35:51 <alterego> lcuk: it does if you use copy & paste!
Jun 28 17:36:05 <MohammadAG51> which you can't do :p
Jun 28 17:37:22 <alterego> Of course you can, what do you think it was for iPhone?!?
Jun 28 17:37:50 <MohammadAG51> alterego, you either implemented the echo stuff or you're being an idiot :P
Jun 28 17:38:13 <alterego> MohammadAG51: neither, I'm being ironic :)
Jun 28 17:39:44 <BCMM_> anyone use mnotes?
Jun 28 17:40:01 <BCMM_> it says it syncs against a webservice, but doesn't make it clear which service it means
Jun 28 17:40:17 <BCMM_> i'm looking for something that can sync notes between my desktop and phone, without being tomboy
Jun 28 17:41:56 <timeless_mbp> alterego: ping
Jun 28 17:42:30 <alterego> pong
Jun 28 17:42:46 <alterego> would you like to smell my ping pong pong?
Jun 28 17:43:17 <timeless_mbp> no
Jun 28 17:43:22 <alterego> :)
Jun 28 17:43:28 <timeless_mbp> about media im status
Jun 28 17:43:41 <alterego> yessir?
Jun 28 17:43:51 <timeless_mbp> the list of accounts is not in a sane order
Jun 28 17:43:58 <timeless_mbp> could you make it match presence order?
Jun 28 17:44:09 <alterego> shit, I knew I forgot something.
Jun 28 17:44:16 <MohammadAG51> hide facebook too :P
Jun 28 17:44:27 <alterego> Yeah, I'll add it in 1.0
Jun 28 17:44:38 <timeless_mbp> i have: gtalk; gtalk; jabber; sip; skype; sip; gtalk
Jun 28 17:44:43 <alterego> I was going to do it alphabetical.
Jun 28 17:44:44 <MohammadAG51> it's at 0.4... lol
Jun 28 17:44:56 <timeless_mbp> alterego: well, the gtalks are all timeless...
Jun 28 17:45:08 <timeless_mbp> i'd suggest you match presence order
Jun 28 17:45:11 <alterego> Sure, but my next version will be 1.0 which will probably be the final release.
Jun 28 17:45:28 <timeless_mbp> it isn't necessarily a sane order, but being what others will expect is good
Jun 28 17:45:30 <BCMM_> installing mnotes doesn't take one any closer to finding out what webservice it uses or how to get an account...
Jun 28 17:45:49 <alterego> It's just the order they're returned bu the dbus call.
Jun 28 17:46:10 <timeless_mbp> alterego: you'll want to sniff or ask around for how presence orders it
Jun 28 17:46:18 * timeless_mbp presumes it sorts by service
Jun 28 17:46:29 <alterego> Oh, that's easy to implement :)
Jun 28 17:46:31 <timeless_mbp> fwiw, the sort i have is:
Jun 28 17:47:03 <timeless_mbp> gtalk [ timeless.1; timeless.2; timeless] ; sip; skype; jabber
Jun 28 17:47:19 <alterego> Like I said, I'm not sorting at all, I imagine it's in order of creation tbh
Jun 28 17:47:22 <timeless_mbp> which does look like alpha sort w/in protocol
Jun 28 17:47:26 <timeless_mbp> it isn't
Jun 28 17:47:29 <e-yes> how to bring keyboard backlight on by software? echo 255 > /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb1/brightness works, but backlight fades out in half of second
Jun 28 17:47:31 <alterego> check your accounts.ini file or whatever it is :)
Jun 28 17:47:41 <timeless_mbp> the gtalk item at the end of my list would not have been created last :)
Jun 28 17:47:55 <SpeedEvil> e-yes: it's a mce thing
Jun 28 17:47:59 <alterego> Oh, well, maybe look at the file anyway
Jun 28 17:48:24 <e-yes> SpeedEvil, let assume mce is not running
Jun 28 17:48:41 <e-yes> (in case of nitdroid)
Jun 28 17:48:41 <MohammadAG51> it wouldn't shut off :)
Jun 28 17:48:47 <timeless_mbp> definitely not accounts.cfg order
Jun 28 17:49:08 <MohammadAG51> also as DocScrutinizer said, try sleep 3; echo etc... and it should stay on unless you touch the screen
Jun 28 17:50:34 <alterego> timeless_mbp: is it consistent? because of the way telepathy works, it's basically a bunch of distributed services that respond to dbus calls, so when I query the account manager I presume it does something similar to all the protocol services.
Jun 28 17:51:18 <alterego> Or it caches them when they register,
Jun 28 17:53:29 <alterego> Anyway, yes, I'll order by presence and proto and alpha.
Jun 28 17:53:39 <alterego> timeless_mbp: that seem reasonible?
Jun 28 17:54:17 <hahlo> hi, got error "libcrypto.so.0.9.7: cannot open shared object file: No such file or director" do I miss some library?
Jun 28 17:59:59 <timeless_mbp> alterego: i believe so
Jun 28 18:00:50 <alterego> timeless_mbp: well, I'll be releasing the progress to 1.0 in devel for people to play with, so I'll let you know when that occurs :)
Jun 28 18:04:19 * lbt_ looks around...
Jun 28 18:04:23 <timeless_mbp> alterego: i'll vote 0.4 out in a bit
Jun 28 18:04:29 <timeless_mbp> but right now i'm busy yelling at chase
Jun 28 18:04:34 <timeless_mbp> (the bank)
Jun 28 18:04:38 <Jartza> what
Jun 28 18:04:43 <Jartza> this is absurd
Jun 28 18:04:48 <Jartza> no SMS sound still
Jun 28 18:04:53 <Jartza> not after reflash
Jun 28 18:04:56 <alterego> timeless_mbp: thank you very much. Have fun.
Jun 28 18:05:01 * alterego wonders off
Jun 28 18:05:06 <jacekowski> Jartza: this is sparta
Jun 28 18:05:16 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: i went to chase once
Jun 28 18:05:23 <Jartza> jacekowski: seems to be yes.
Jun 28 18:05:34 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: ( they were in same building as other bank i was looking for )
Jun 28 18:05:47 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: and they started selling me their shit straight away
Jun 28 18:06:03 <MohammadAG51> more like broken server
Jun 28 18:07:47 <Milo-> anyone else have problem connecting to msn with msn pecan or msn protocol plugin?
Jun 28 18:08:05 <Milo-> well, connecting not an issue, acquiring my contacts how ever is
Jun 28 18:11:17 <alterego> Milo-: haze works fine for me. And I know a few others that seem to agree with me on Haze aswell. I recommend it over the others :)
Jun 28 18:11:34 <Milo-> okay
Jun 28 18:12:24 <alterego> Though, once I had to restart the device to get it to work. But that only happened once :P
Jun 28 18:12:25 <MohammadAG51> Haze ftw
Jun 28 18:12:37 <MohammadAG51> killall telepathy-haze alterego
Jun 28 18:12:42 <MohammadAG51> if it happens again
Jun 28 18:13:05 <Milo-> alterego haze is not in maemo.org or testing?
Jun 28 18:13:15 <MohammadAG51> WTF
Jun 28 18:13:23 <MohammadAG51> battery went from half full to dead!
Jun 28 18:13:45 <Milo-> half full to half dead?
Jun 28 18:13:53 <MohammadAG51> red bar
Jun 28 18:14:46 <luke-jr> lol
Jun 28 18:15:27 <lbt_> How do we deal with little shits who vote down apps for half-arsed reasons?
Jun 28 18:15:57 <luke-jr> what is sgx_misr?
Jun 28 18:16:07 <luke-jr> and why is it eating 100% CPU and making N900 non-responsive?
Jun 28 18:16:45 <timeless_mbp> heh
Jun 28 18:16:58 * timeless_mbp just realized that this n900 *knew* the number it just dialed was Chase
Jun 28 18:16:59 <lcuk> lbt_, shopper in testing?
Jun 28 18:17:20 <lbt_> lcuk: yep
Jun 28 18:17:29 <lbt_> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/shopper/0.5.12/
Jun 28 18:18:09 <lbt_> lcuk: I'm going to include a special rule in the automation system just for him... <evil grin>
Jun 28 18:18:15 <lcuk> haha
Jun 28 18:18:18 <lcuk> :D
Jun 28 18:18:28 <lcuk> you wont make that mistake again will you :p
Jun 28 18:18:38 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: oh well
Jun 28 18:18:46 <flailingmonkey> i just unignored the join/part/quit/nick messages for a minute in irssi... terrible idea
Jun 28 18:18:56 <timeless_mbp> in my case, in 2008 they had a customer who couldn't spell his/her email address correctly
Jun 28 18:19:01 <lbt_> lcuk: actually I'm glad I'm going through the QA pain
Jun 28 18:19:08 <lbt_> it's so fucking annoying
Jun 28 18:19:11 <lcuk> :) its good to see how it is
Jun 28 18:19:14 <timeless_mbp> i forwarded their account verification message the same day to abuse@chase
Jun 28 18:19:14 <lbt_> REALLY annoying
Jun 28 18:19:22 <lbt_> and disheartening
Jun 28 18:19:25 <lbt_> and off putting
Jun 28 18:19:33 <crashanddie> flailingmonkey: oh yes, full ignore on nick changes, parts and joins is an absolute requirement on freenode
Jun 28 18:19:39 <lcuk> yes, and from it we will get a better mechanism
Jun 28 18:19:42 <timeless_mbp> for the past 2 years i've been trying to get them to fix the email address to not be mine
Jun 28 18:19:43 <lbt_> and I feel like saying "well, F*CK YOU MAEMO"
Jun 28 18:19:47 <lcuk> but we have stronger apps cos of it
Jun 28 18:19:49 <lcuk> :O
Jun 28 18:19:49 <timeless_mbp> i told them initially that i wasn't a customer
Jun 28 18:19:59 <lbt_> so clearly there is work needed there ;)
Jun 28 18:20:06 <timeless_mbp> but that i couldn't say i didn't want to receive communications from them forever
Jun 28 18:20:11 <timeless_mbp> more recently they bought my bank
Jun 28 18:20:15 <timeless_mbp> so now i *am* their customer
Jun 28 18:20:19 <timeless_mbp> and they still haven't fixed it
Jun 28 18:20:23 <lbt_> yeah, but I really empathise with the naysayers
Jun 28 18:20:40 <lcuk> the issues are well documented and known
Jun 28 18:20:46 <lbt_> *nod*
Jun 28 18:20:50 <lbt_> but not changed?
Jun 28 18:20:54 <crashanddie> lbt_: I find it more effective to star out the c in fuck
Jun 28 18:20:55 <lcuk> but also, you should know the rules
Jun 28 18:21:02 <crashanddie> lbt_: fu*k off :)
Jun 28 18:21:09 <lbt_> crashanddie: I like that :)
Jun 28 18:21:32 <lbt_> have you seen the BOSS stuff for MeeGo ?
Jun 28 18:21:40 <lbt_> it's a bit naff-looking at the moment
Jun 28 18:21:48 <lbt_> but I'm quite excited by it
Jun 28 18:21:50 <flailingmonkey> BOSS?
Jun 28 18:22:00 <flailingmonkey> ~BOSS
Jun 28 18:22:04 <lbt_> Build Orchestration Supervision System
Jun 28 18:22:19 <flailingmonkey> nice name
Jun 28 18:22:20 <lbt_> took me ages to make that up ;)
Jun 28 18:22:23 <lcuk> not yet lbt_ ive been busy myself
Jun 28 18:22:45 <lbt_> it's a cool little Ruby workflow system
Jun 28 18:23:02 <lbt_> I've been working on the AMQP link
Jun 28 18:23:03 <timeless_mbp> hey
Jun 28 18:23:12 <timeless_mbp> why is Shopper listed in "Office"?
Jun 28 18:23:34 <lbt_> timeless_mbp: multimedia?
Jun 28 18:24:12 <lcuk> lbt: Section:
Jun 28 18:24:12 <lcuk> user/office
Jun 28 18:24:31 <lbt_> yes ... where is better in the insane set of groupings?
Jun 28 18:25:07 <timeless_mbp> ask GeneralAntilles?
Jun 28 18:25:08 <lcuk> lbt - ask the testing squad ;)
Jun 28 18:26:45 <DocScrutinizer> ([2010-06-28 17:52:20] <crashanddie> Nokia is really acting more and more stupid with the MyNokia shit) Any pointer?
Jun 28 18:27:35 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: ^^^
Jun 28 18:27:49 <lbt_> timeless_mbp: when I read the descriptions (way back) that's where it fitted
Jun 28 18:27:57 <lbt_> I've never changed it
Jun 28 18:28:01 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: eh?
Jun 28 18:28:11 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: what the hell are you talking about
Jun 28 18:28:34 <timeless_mbp> lbt: ok
Jun 28 18:28:50 <timeless_mbp> actually, looking at the other items i have, i don't know that it's really misplaced
Jun 28 18:28:52 * RST38h moos moodily
Jun 28 18:28:55 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: if you call it talking about, a quote and the two words "any pointer"
Jun 28 18:29:01 <timeless_mbp> shopper is basically a smart spreadsheet
Jun 28 18:29:03 <Milo-> gah
Jun 28 18:29:04 <lbt_> I really hate the sections... they are so non-personal and just so crap
Jun 28 18:29:07 <timeless_mbp> and that's where spreadsheets go
Jun 28 18:29:10 <lbt_> yup
Jun 28 18:29:14 <lbt_> or a database
Jun 28 18:29:15 <Milo-> still can't fetch contacts with msn-plugins :/
Jun 28 18:29:20 <timeless_mbp> lbt: remember, i'm using Catorize
Jun 28 18:29:23 <RST38h> smart spread shit
Jun 28 18:29:24 <timeless_mbp> so i actually see them
Jun 28 18:29:31 <timeless_mbp> … after installing ...
Jun 28 18:29:37 <RST38h> hmm...there may be uses for that
Jun 28 18:29:50 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: I want to get a URL or similar pointer to the place WHERE nokia is acting more and more stupid
Jun 28 18:30:08 <lbt_> RST38h: :D
Jun 28 18:30:27 <Milo-> how come I'm not able to fetch my msn contacts with any of the 4 msn plugins that can be found in maemo.org or extras and extras testing repo?
Jun 28 18:30:46 <Milo-> when I press "new IM" it just says "No contacts"
Jun 28 18:31:15 <timeless_mbp> http://www.nokia.com/A4515032
Jun 28 18:31:16 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: the council thread about mynokia, in community on tmo
Jun 28 18:31:21 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: ...as I read your comment like there's ne statements or actions from Nokia in reply to the council open letter
Jun 28 18:31:27 <timeless_mbp> ^ my nokia
Jun 28 18:33:12 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp: a diff pkease, to the way they acted stupid there 2 days ago. What changed??
Jun 28 18:33:54 <timeless_mbp> oh
Jun 28 18:33:58 <timeless_mbp> i don't think anything changed
Jun 28 18:34:03 <timeless_mbp> i certainly haven't heard anything
Jun 28 18:42:02 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: so that was a laggy comment to http://maemo.org/community/council/nokia_response_to_mynokia_subscription_in_pr1-2/ etc, not some new stuff?
Jun 28 18:42:12 <crashanddie> yes
Jun 28 18:42:15 <DocScrutinizer> k
Jun 28 18:44:29 <jacekowski> fu**** apple and fu***** drm in fu***** m4v files
Jun 28 18:44:39 <DocScrutinizer> mugur enache's comment has a point
Jun 28 18:44:57 <jacekowski> only thing i ever bought in shitstore
Jun 28 18:45:01 <jacekowski> and i can't play it now
Jun 28 18:45:03 <jacekowski> because of drm
Jun 28 18:45:18 <DocScrutinizer> HAHAHA
Jun 28 18:45:54 <lbt_> ha ha
Jun 28 18:46:34 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: give it back, reclaim your money
Jun 28 18:48:16 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: more like - throw it in the garbage can as it's worthless, sue them for selling shit, then get your money back
Jun 28 18:49:21 <lcuk> sigh
Jun 28 18:49:50 * DocScrutinizer hands lcuk a cigar
Jun 28 18:53:33 <Milo-> nope, can't find a reason why those msn plugins can't fetch contacts
Jun 28 18:55:35 <flailingmonkey> is MSN linked into the xbox live messaging stuff?
Jun 28 18:56:02 <Milo-> no idea
Jun 28 18:56:44 <alterego> flailingmonkey: no, unfortunately not :(
Jun 28 18:57:09 <alterego> alterego: I'd love that as a telepathy plugin.
Jun 28 18:57:46 <alterego> I might actually have a look into that, if it appears to be the same protocol as MSN Messenger I will do it myself :)
Jun 28 18:57:58 <alterego> But I'm currently working on a telepathy sharing service plugin
Jun 28 19:07:50 <Milo-> no contacts with haze either
Jun 28 19:07:54 <Milo-> this stinks
Jun 28 19:08:16 <alterego> Milo-: sounds very suspicious ...
Jun 28 19:08:19 <Milo-> yes
Jun 28 19:08:30 <Milo-> maybe msn server has lost all my contacts somehow
Jun 28 19:08:36 <Milo-> or maybe there is a temp file somewhere
Jun 28 19:08:37 <alterego> flailingmonkey: I can easily do a text only Telepathy plugin for XBox, I'll work on it after my sharing plugin
Jun 28 19:08:51 <alterego> Milo-: try on a proper comp00ter
Jun 28 19:08:56 <alterego> Have you tried with pidgin?
Jun 28 19:09:10 <Milo-> works on my desktop pc
Jun 28 19:09:16 <Milo-> just a problem with my n900
Jun 28 19:10:33 <alterego> Milo-: :(
Jun 28 19:10:41 <jacekowski> ehh
Jun 28 19:10:57 <alterego> Wish I could help, because if you can'#t see your contacts, then how will they be able to see your media IM statuses! :D
Jun 28 19:11:06 <jacekowski> there is like a gazillion of state machines in code of bme
Jun 28 19:20:52 <flailingmonkey> jacekowski: disassembling that implement of insanity?
Jun 28 19:21:01 <jacekowski> yeah
Jun 28 19:22:32 <flailingmonkey> too bad you can't throw out the pats that never get used on the N900
Jun 28 19:22:36 <flailingmonkey> *parts
Jun 28 19:22:54 <flailingmonkey> a sort of coverage report
Jun 28 19:23:13 <jacekowski> well, i can do code coverage
Jun 28 19:23:16 <jacekowski> but thing is
Jun 28 19:23:44 <jacekowski> that it might not be covered because it needs certain condition to happen
Jun 28 19:25:55 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: probably you don't want to know what BME really is doing
Jun 28 19:27:04 <jacekowski> i do
Jun 28 19:27:07 <gsever> hi guys
Jun 28 19:27:11 <jacekowski> i'm already craze
Jun 28 19:27:13 <jacekowski> crazy*
Jun 28 19:27:24 <jacekowski> so it can't get worse
Jun 28 19:27:40 <gsever> trying to customize conversations areas
Jun 28 19:28:00 <gsever> wondering how to change the font size in conversations
Jun 28 19:28:42 <DocScrutinizer> the usual behaviour of BME, as strange and probably undesirable as it is, can easily be RE'd by simple observation. It's the "_UNLIKELY" branches that needed detailed analysis, and that's hard enough and also these parts in BME most likely are as borked as the main functionality
Jun 28 19:29:07 <jacekowski> "_UNLIKELY"?
Jun 28 19:29:15 <flailingmonkey> DocScrutinizer: indeed
Jun 28 19:29:42 <SpeedEvil> In practice - do we care?
Jun 28 19:29:49 <flailingmonkey> I believe he meant branches marked as unlikely, and therefore not predicted
Jun 28 19:29:51 <SpeedEvil> There just aren't that many corner cases.
Jun 28 19:30:07 <jacekowski> we don't know anything about dsme
Jun 28 19:30:21 <SpeedEvil> There are only maybe a dozen possible states, if that.
Jun 28 19:30:24 <DocScrutinizer> (unlikely) heard it's a compiled directive to generate more effective code by telling which branch of a conditional control structure is more seldom used
Jun 28 19:30:38 <SpeedEvil> And most of them, the transitions are obvious.
Jun 28 19:30:40 <flailingmonkey> SpeedEvil: unless bme includes corner cases for all nokia phones ever :P
Jun 28 19:31:01 <SpeedEvil> Or at least obvious to generate code that will work at least as well.
Jun 28 19:31:37 <flailingmonkey> if we had the requirements, the whole process would be straightforward
Jun 28 19:31:45 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: exactly. It's more like we NEED to know about the emergency brakes and special case treatments (extreme temperature, extremely low cell voltage, etc)
Jun 28 19:32:05 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
Jun 28 19:32:22 <SpeedEvil> But most of those are fairly obvious to do - at least conservative.
Jun 28 19:32:42 <SpeedEvil> For example - no charge if temp >-20 or >50
Jun 28 19:32:48 <DocScrutinizer> and I guess these are also braindead in a way we really just use them for scaring example how to NOT implement shit
Jun 28 19:33:28 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: also no DIScharge >70°C
Jun 28 19:33:47 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 28 19:33:51 <DocScrutinizer> see fried cell by OC+mencoder
Jun 28 19:35:19 <DocScrutinizer> but all this either is hard to RE from BME, or is implemeted in a borked manner or not at all
Jun 28 19:35:24 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 28 19:35:29 <Milo-> hmm ahaa, the contacts do exisst
Jun 28 19:35:31 <DocScrutinizer> or all at once :-P
Jun 28 19:35:32 <Milo-> exist*
Jun 28 19:35:44 <Milo-> but can't access them through "conversations -> new IM"
Jun 28 19:35:48 <SpeedEvil> Load shedding for xample would be another useful too.
Jun 28 19:36:03 <DocScrutinizer> ??
Jun 28 19:37:02 <Milo-> have had some msn plugin issues
Jun 28 19:37:25 <Milo-> used to be able to access msn contacts through "conversations -> new IM", but now it just shows "no contacts"
Jun 28 19:37:35 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: just hits my mind: prolly what BME writes to CAL are some crappy estimations about real total capacity of cell etc
Jun 28 19:37:55 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: well, that's what i think i've found
Jun 28 19:38:02 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: Load shedding as a useful task of BME I mean.
Jun 28 19:38:14 <DocScrutinizer> what's load shedding?
Jun 28 19:38:15 <ShadowJK> Those estimates are pretty darn borked
Jun 28 19:38:16 <SpeedEvil> I don't see any good reason to write it to cal, and not a text.
Jun 28 19:38:39 <jacekowski> is cal wiped after flash?
Jun 28 19:38:41 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: removing loads under unusual power conditions.
Jun 28 19:38:44 <jacekowski> because it doesn't look like so
Jun 28 19:38:59 <jacekowski> i've found a code that handles situation when there is no block named bme in cal
Jun 28 19:39:16 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: cal never wiped
Jun 28 19:39:24 <jacekowski> and i've found another thing about cal
Jun 28 19:40:37 <lbt_> timeless_mbp: haven't you voted yet?
Jun 28 19:40:55 <timeless_mbp> sorry, distracted
Jun 28 19:40:59 <lbt_> :D
Jun 28 19:40:59 <jacekowski> i fucking hate wireless
Jun 28 19:41:01 <timeless_mbp> this was which, shoper?
Jun 28 19:41:06 <jacekowski> going back to cal
Jun 28 19:41:09 <timeless_mbp> maybe w/ two ps?
Jun 28 19:41:13 <lbt_> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/shopper/0.5.12/
Jun 28 19:41:14 <DocScrutinizer> my battery is charged to 100% *real* and pretty good condition now for ~24h, still lshal states it has 750mAh and 53%
Jun 28 19:41:15 <jacekowski> it seems to store previous values as well
Jun 28 19:41:21 <crashanddie> I'm probably going to buy a bike again tomorrow
Jun 28 19:41:28 <lbt_> SpeedEvil: ^^^
Jun 28 19:41:43 <jacekowski> i'm not sure how to access them easily ( cal library only gives access to latest values )
Jun 28 19:41:53 <timeless_mbp> lbt: the red arrows for next/prev don't really fit my theme and are too thin :)
Jun 28 19:42:02 * lbt_ looks at timeless_mbp....
Jun 28 19:42:05 <lbt_> slowly
Jun 28 19:42:26 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: yes, it's simply they don't overwrite blocks in cal, rather they use fresh ones
Jun 28 19:43:22 * lbt_ wonders if fiferboy is here...
Jun 28 19:43:23 <jacekowski> yeah
Jun 28 19:43:29 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: and cal lib probably is as smart as old bread
Jun 28 19:43:40 <fiferboy> lbt_: I'm here, but I haven't been listening
Jun 28 19:43:44 <jacekowski> but cal stores size of a block as well
Jun 28 19:43:52 <SpeedEvil> lbt: I suggest bugtracker link as https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Shopper - not the straight bugs URL
Jun 28 19:43:54 <jacekowski> well, size of data written
Jun 28 19:43:55 <lbt_> hey there... I'm pimping for shopper votes
Jun 28 19:44:03 <lbt_> SpeedEvil: it's in git
Jun 28 19:44:15 <SpeedEvil> ?
Jun 28 19:44:16 <lbt_> but I'm not releasing a fix with 7 + votes
Jun 28 19:44:21 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 28 19:44:26 <fiferboy> lbt_: I'm on it (installed the update the other night)
Jun 28 19:44:30 <lbt_> when I have a version in extras
Jun 28 19:44:42 <lbt_> then I'll push a new release at once
Jun 28 19:45:44 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: anyway load shedding (what I called "no DIScharging on >70°) probably is a task for a much more central part of system, maybe even kernel itself. For sure a userland BME process isn't the right place to do that
Jun 28 19:45:48 <lbt_> especially since I had 8 +ve votes until Emanuele 'psycho' Cassioli voted it down for *not having a long enough link to the bugtracker*
Jun 28 19:46:16 <lbt_> SpeedEvil: also note the bug link in the About box :)
Jun 28 19:46:22 <SpeedEvil> lbt: Some people just put in the link to the ugtaracker, without actually making the app in the bug
Jun 28 19:46:39 <ShadowJK> Do we have any easily accessible temperaturre sensor besides the one in bq27200?
Jun 28 19:46:40 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: freq governor?
Jun 28 19:46:47 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer?
Jun 28 19:46:51 <lbt_> yeah, Shoppere was actually one of the earliest apps on maemo bugs
Jun 28 19:47:03 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: (load shedding)
Jun 28 19:47:10 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: there are some
Jun 28 19:47:17 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: for example - turning off the highest backlight option
Jun 28 19:47:24 <lbt_> (clearly it was so long ago it was ye olde shoppere)
Jun 28 19:47:30 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: always depends on what temperature you're interested in particularly
Jun 28 19:47:45 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: twlsomething does temperature as well
Jun 28 19:47:49 <ShadowJK> Well for the not charging not discharging
Jun 28 19:47:59 <jacekowski> if i remember correctly
Jun 28 19:48:10 * SpeedEvil votes down shopper. The binary size is not a prime number.
Jun 28 19:48:11 <lbt_> fiferboy: not seen you about much (not sure if that's me or you though!)
Jun 28 19:48:22 <lbt_> <grin>
Jun 28 19:48:51 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: aiui for cell temperature the bq24150/27200 die temp is the best we can get
Jun 28 19:48:55 <fiferboy> lbt_: It's probably me.  I'm usually logged in to IRC but only been observing lately
Jun 28 19:49:16 * lbt_ offers SpeedEvil a premium account on the new community OBS
Jun 28 19:49:27 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: except for mugen which seems to have a real NTC on BSI
Jun 28 19:49:28 <lbt_> fiferboy: that's allowed ... I do it a lot
Jun 28 19:50:03 <fiferboy> lbt_: How is the OBS work coming along?
Jun 28 19:50:18 <lbt_> I was just too busy this weekend
Jun 28 19:50:27 <lbt_> x-fade was on it today
Jun 28 19:50:39 <lbt_> I'm working on a really neat automation system
Jun 28 19:50:58 <lbt_> that I hope will power the new meego and maemo QA processes too
Jun 28 19:51:30 <lbt_> it's very close - but the HW hasn't been powered up yet AFAIK
Jun 28 19:51:43 <SpeedEvil> Packages installed, and available for checking.
Jun 28 19:51:43 <SpeedEvil> babyphone colorflood evopedia extcalllog gargoyle gps-data-logger gpsrecorder gstreamer0.10-hantro hildon-im-keyboard-assistant hildon-im-keyboard-assistant-scv hildon-theme-variant-203 hoopsfrenzy icedtea6 kanatest led-pattern-editor libtimeshop maemo-mapper maenotify mafw-gst-subtitles-applet mafw-lastfm mstatus-applet ncalc omweather-gismeteo-ru-stations-db omweather-weather-com-stations-db openjazz portabase preinstalled-contacts-variant-203 python
Jun 28 19:51:45 <SpeedEvil> argh
Jun 28 19:52:11 <SpeedEvil> Should uninstalling kill the binary if it's still running?
Jun 28 19:52:17 <lbt_> no
Jun 28 19:52:33 <lbt_> not unless it's a daemon
Jun 28 19:53:06 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: will kill it when it's trying to open/access some associated lib that got installed
Jun 28 19:53:17 <DocScrutinizer> sigsegv
Jun 28 19:53:32 <SpeedEvil> yeah - I know it may later segfault, or do unexpected stuff.
Jun 28 19:53:58 <DocScrutinizer> otherwise the handle of the process to it's own program text file aka binary will keep the file *data* alife
Jun 28 19:54:05 <DocScrutinizer> alive*
Jun 28 19:54:33 <DocScrutinizer> ...until the handle is closed
Jun 28 19:54:51 <DocScrutinizer> the the disk space is actually freed by fs
Jun 28 19:55:13 <DocScrutinizer> standard unix fs behaviour aiui
Jun 28 19:55:44 <DocScrutinizer> known issue with logrotate
Jun 28 19:58:28 <DocScrutinizer> you don't rm /var/log/*, rather you do a ": >/var/log/*" to set size of file to 0, as otherwise the old large file lingers on 'forever' in a zombie state, while syslog still writes to that unnamed old file and not to the newly created empty logfile
Jun 28 19:58:52 <lbt_> syslog-ng
Jun 28 19:59:08 <jacekowski> about 40% done
Jun 28 19:59:14 <jacekowski> couple more hours
Jun 28 19:59:21 <jacekowski> and i'll have whole bme analysed
Jun 28 20:00:05 <flailingmonkey> jacekowski: masochist, you deserve a pat of the back, and some cookies
Jun 28 20:00:12 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: I doubt we'll be *much* wiser then ;-D
Jun 28 20:01:07 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: well, at least we will be able to tell for sure then what BME actually does NOT do
Jun 28 20:01:20 <V13> ehlo... I'm struggling to make a multi-instance desktop applet/widget in python but the #$@#$$%#$ thing core dumps when calling HomePluginItem.get_applet_id(). Any ideas?
Jun 28 20:02:34 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, just one - python shouldn't coredump
Jun 28 20:02:40 <V13> i know :)
Jun 28 20:03:14 * V13 tells python not to core dump
Jun 28 20:03:32 <V13> (while moving the finger) "You shouldn't do that"
Jun 28 20:05:05 <DocScrutinizer> probably some object not initialized correctly
Jun 28 20:05:30 <V13> well... I first want to be sure that it is not something that I shouldn't do
Jun 28 20:05:39 <V13> e.g. calling geT_applet_id()
Jun 28 20:05:45 <DocScrutinizer> no idea, never looked it that
Jun 28 20:06:41 <DocScrutinizer> into (damn, missing even 2 keystrokes is rare also for this crap laptop kbd)
Jun 28 20:09:04 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: what exactly is the primary topic for your REing of bme?
Jun 28 20:09:36 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: is there a defined set of questions you want answers for?
Jun 28 20:10:31 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: or are you looking for a particular functionality? or just out of curiosity?
Jun 28 20:12:48 <V13> nailed it... :)
Jun 28 20:13:03 <V13> get_applet_id() doesn't work in the constructor.
Jun 28 20:13:12 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Jun 28 20:14:26 <DocScrutinizer> V13: so my idea of a not correctly initialized object seems to be close
Jun 28 20:14:42 <DocScrutinizer> not YET, maybe
Jun 28 20:14:43 <V13> well.. it always is with python core dumps :P
Jun 28 20:24:29 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: well, i would like to make open version of bme
Jun 28 20:24:32 <DocScrutinizer> V13: anyway that's clearly a bug in get_applet_id()
Jun 28 20:25:08 <jacekowski> and find the code responsible for host mode usb power
Jun 28 20:25:09 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: thare are already versions of a rudimentary open BME
Jun 28 20:25:35 <jacekowski> well, most of them don't have half of original bme functionalities
Jun 28 20:25:48 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: and there's for sure no code inside bme for proper hostmode VBUS supply mode
Jun 28 20:26:00 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: how do you know thath
Jun 28 20:26:35 <jacekowski> s/h//2
Jun 28 20:27:19 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: simple deduction - it's been Nokia's lagging of putting BME proper wrt hostmode that in the end lead to kill of AB-receptacle and OTG support
Jun 28 20:28:08 <jacekowski> and there are things we don't know
Jun 28 20:29:02 <flailingmonkey> I'm certain that the analysis will be enlightening... and possibly depressing
Jun 28 20:30:37 * ShadowJK thought the driver rework due to omap usb errata was what killed hostmode
Jun 28 20:30:38 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, maybe. I'm not sure I'm interested in it for now, though. It might invalidate my efforts on jrbme as Nokia could claim it's based on illegal RE of BME
Jun 28 20:31:05 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: not exactly.
Jun 28 20:32:38 <ShadowJK> I agree about not wanting to see any re bme code though
Jun 28 20:32:45 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: Nokia switched to 1707 as twl4030 initially didn't know about charger detection. Then they had to implement full hostmode according to usb.cert specs, to get certification - they failed n that in time, so decided to rather discard the whole OTG thing
Jun 28 20:33:33 <ShadowJK> yeah
Jun 28 20:33:58 <DocScrutinizer> s/hostmode/OTG
Jun 28 20:35:00 <DocScrutinizer> so it's pretty clear bme is lacking one thing for sure: proper OTG support
Jun 28 20:35:45 <ShadowJK> Although I think it's fine if jacekowski discovers anything really important, if he describes/documents it in english for jrbme authors who write it in code from the description
Jun 28 20:36:08 <DocScrutinizer> hell, bme doesn't even know how to deal correctly with charger_detect() and non-'standard' dedicated chargers
Jun 28 20:36:24 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: ack
Jun 28 20:36:57 <ShadowJK> At the time I think the correct way is to ignore those chargers :-)
Jun 28 20:37:00 <DocScrutinizer> but honestly, there's most likely nothing we really want to learn from bme
Jun 28 20:38:34 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: yeah, but BME doesn't do that - rather it renders musb/PHY in a undefined/illegal state and that causes battery *drain* _increased_ by ~60mA, when a non-standard (D+/- short) charger is attached
Jun 28 20:38:56 <DocScrutinizer> I'm pretty sure we don't want to RE and re-implement this behaviour
Jun 28 20:39:28 <ShadowJK> the drain happens without bme too :-)
Jun 28 20:39:30 <DocScrutinizer> and same holds true for almost all aspects of BME - at least that's my notion on it
Jun 28 20:39:47 <ShadowJK> and cpu gets locked to 500
Jun 28 20:40:39 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, because USB tries to listen to a host that never will be around
Jun 28 20:40:55 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: why is the N900 charge outputing 1200 mA whereas most other microusb chargers seems to max out at 500 mA?
Jun 28 20:41:08 <DocScrutinizer> and BME isn't exactly causing that, but it doesn't do anything to cure it
Jun 28 20:41:57 <DocScrutinizer> tybollt: maybe because N900 itself can fastcharge @1050mA max?
Jun 28 20:42:02 * ShadowJK doesn't have any nonstandard chargers anymore :D
Jun 28 20:42:30 <flailingmonkey> DocScrutinizer: we need to put pressure on Nokians to come back with a definitive answer on those "legal" issues they weren't sure about
Jun 28 20:42:51 <DocScrutinizer> I got a nice one with a A-USB receptacle and a LED to indicate current drawn
Jun 28 20:42:51 <ShadowJK> what legal issues?
Jun 28 20:43:34 <ShadowJK> bme seems to select 950 charge current most of the time
Jun 28 20:43:35 <DocScrutinizer> legal issues regarding publishing a decent requirements spec for BME
Jun 28 20:44:03 <DocScrutinizer> afk
Jun 28 20:44:40 <Lateralu1> What was the file you could write that would launch the application manager? .install? .launch?
Jun 28 20:44:45 <ShadowJK> the temperature (as reported by bq27200) really goes up at 1250, and it's not the battery heating up, the 2400mAh mugen should be able to absorb far greater current with no issues
Jun 28 20:44:57 <Lateralu1> Anyone know where that is documented?
Jun 28 20:45:20 <flailingmonkey> .install is what you are thinking of, i believe
Jun 28 20:45:42 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: care to elaborate on the fastcharge bit? This some new tech?
Jun 28 20:45:58 <ShadowJK> tybollt, not really
Jun 28 20:46:05 <flailingmonkey> it would be like, yourapp.install
Jun 28 20:46:16 <tybollt> sjk: why doesn't all mobiles have "fastcharge"?
Jun 28 20:46:18 <flailingmonkey> the fennec one is a good example.
Jun 28 20:46:50 <Lateralu1> flailingmonkey: I need the contents of the file -- I don't remember what it was supposed to conatin
Jun 28 20:46:53 <Lateralu1> contain*
Jun 28 20:47:10 <wazd1> Woo, I've finally updated Marina theme for PR 1.2 x) World is still safe :)
Jun 28 20:47:17 <ShadowJK> tybollt: the new-ish bit is that USB consortium recently standardized the method by which to detect whether a device is connected to a dedicated charger and thus able to draw more power than the usb maximum of 500mA
Jun 28 20:47:53 <tybollt> ah olrite that makes sense
Jun 28 20:48:53 <Lateralu1> flailingmonkey: Found one.
Jun 28 20:49:35 <ShadowJK> Many PCs will fry their usb if you try to draw 1200mA :)
Jun 28 20:50:02 <ShadowJK> (and those PCs would have non-conforming usb implementations)
Jun 28 20:52:54 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: correct behaviour would be: detect VBUS, try to confirm D+-short fastcharger, try to ENUM to host, if both fails then fall back to 500mA charging
Jun 28 20:54:00 <DocScrutinizer> alas N900 seems to get stuck in the "try ENUM" step and never falls thru to enabling 500mA mode
Jun 28 20:57:09 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: bq24140&1707 do: detect VBUS, try to confirm D+/-short fastcharger (if ok ->500mA), fall thru to 100mA emergency charging.
Jun 28 20:57:40 <DocScrutinizer> without trying to enum to a host /which bq24150 can't do on its own) it's a sane scheme
Jun 28 20:58:13 <ShadowJK> Well doing 500mA as fall back isn't right either.. though everyone else does it
Jun 28 20:58:21 <flailingmonkey> DocScrutinizer: if the BME issues have anything to do with patents, Nokia would have no reason not to fully list what patents are involved
Jun 28 20:58:45 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: if host doesn't answer to enum, then it's ok to step up to 500
Jun 28 20:59:06 <ShadowJK> oh? is that a new thing?
Jun 28 20:59:19 <DocScrutinizer> flailingmonkey: ack. It's more like contractors *might* have IP in BME code
Jun 28 20:59:54 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: if it's not answering to enum, then it's no host but a charger
Jun 28 20:59:58 <luke-jr> flailingmonkey: it's not that simple
Jun 28 20:59:59 <DocScrutinizer> or hub
Jun 28 21:00:18 <DocScrutinizer> so 500 is usually ok then
Jun 28 21:00:20 <luke-jr> flailingmonkey: as DocScrutinizer says, Nokia would need to have people review the code to even determine *if* there are legal issues
Jun 28 21:00:31 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
Jun 28 21:01:51 <ShadowJK> I'm guessing usb certification would frown on no enum ->500mA though :)
Jun 28 21:01:56 <DocScrutinizer> I heard Nokia had the bme done by contractors for some decades now (well one decade), and that's why obviously there's no inhouse knowledge at Nokia about all that charger & bme stuff
Jun 28 21:02:08 <flailingmonkey> luke-jr, DocScrutinizer: I understand, but I suspect the IP is not patents, rather copyright
Jun 28 21:02:25 <luke-jr> flailingmonkey: probably both
Jun 28 21:02:29 <Scelt> http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/new_york_post_usa_football_failure.jpg - bad loser?
Jun 28 21:02:32 <luke-jr> *everything* is patented
Jun 28 21:03:06 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: probably none. but as said above, nobody can know, as the nature of the issue prevents tackling it
Jun 28 21:03:32 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: realistically, you can't write a copyrightable software without infringing *some* patent
Jun 28 21:03:39 <wazd1> Stskeeps: ping? :)
Jun 28 21:03:47 <mortini> luke-jr: i've copyrighted that statement.
Jun 28 21:03:59 <mortini> luke-jr: you owe me 5 dev null's.
Jun 28 21:04:03 <luke-jr> mortini: nope, I did first
Jun 28 21:04:07 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: realistically Nokia isn't bothering to look nto it
Jun 28 21:04:12 * mortini shows prior art.
Jun 28 21:04:16 <DocScrutinizer> obviously
Jun 28 21:04:22 <pyther24> Hey
Jun 28 21:04:23 <luke-jr> mortini: prior art has no relevance to copyright
Jun 28 21:04:31 * mortini makes it so.
Jun 28 21:04:40 <luke-jr> crap, mortini is a lawyer?
Jun 28 21:04:41 * mortini alters reality.
Jun 28 21:04:45 <pyther24> Does anyone know of any clover way to trick my device into using localhost:993 when it tries to connect to pyther.net:993
Jun 28 21:04:45 <mortini> No.
Jun 28 21:04:47 <luke-jr> oh, no, he thinks he's God
Jun 28 21:04:51 <mortini> Just waiting for a few minutes so I can go home.
Jun 28 21:04:55 <luke-jr> pyther24: /etc/hosts
Jun 28 21:05:02 <ShadowJK> Copyright wouldn't prevent nokia from writing a spec for someone else to implement
Jun 28 21:05:16 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: correct
Jun 28 21:05:20 <luke-jr> but that also takes time
Jun 28 21:05:26 <DocScrutinizer> pyther24: that's usually what /etc/hosts is for
Jun 28 21:05:27 <ShadowJK> yep
Jun 28 21:05:33 * flailingmonkey shakes his head as nubs don't know about the differences between IP, or the high difficulty of using prior art to defeat any patent
Jun 28 21:05:41 <BCMM> what is the thing in the n900 that does video decoding called?
Jun 28 21:05:49 <BCMM> it's on the tip of my tongue
Jun 28 21:05:59 <pyther24> ok, I guess I'll have to write a script that will use ssh to forward port 993 to localhost and then add/remove a line for mail.pyther.net
Jun 28 21:05:59 * ShadowJK is mostly unconvinced there's anything in bme that's crucial..
Jun 28 21:06:11 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: the battery doesn't charge w/o BME
Jun 28 21:06:14 <flailingmonkey> SGX PowerVG?
Jun 28 21:06:17 <microlith> BCMM: the DSP?
Jun 28 21:06:24 <BCMM> microlith: thank you!
Jun 28 21:06:31 <mortini> pyther24: you might want to bind it to another loopback address, like lo1 and give it 127.0.1.11 or whatever
Jun 28 21:06:34 <luke-jr> pyther24: ... so ignore the obvious solutions we gave you?
Jun 28 21:06:38 <mortini> not that it particularly matters.
Jun 28 21:06:53 <ShadowJK> luke-jr: me and SpeedEvil have both written scripts to charge without bme on n900 :P
Jun 28 21:06:57 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: the problem is we can't proove this to Nokia :-P
Jun 28 21:07:04 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: N810
Jun 28 21:07:10 <flailingmonkey> pyther24: you just put an entry into /etc/hosts that says pyther.net is 127.0.0.1
Jun 28 21:07:26 <pyther24> but I need to access pyther.net and pyther.net is not 127.0.0.1
Jun 28 21:07:27 <BCMM> microlith: and how does it work? is it basically a small FPGA or what?
Jun 28 21:07:35 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: I haven't even need of a script :-P
Jun 28 21:07:39 <pyther24> I just need port fowarding (ssh) for mail
Jun 28 21:07:44 <ShadowJK> docscrutinizer: I'd say if they're saying a jrbme isn't safe they should maybe elaborate...
Jun 28 21:07:47 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Jun 28 21:07:50 <pyther24> as all ports are pretty much blocked here
Jun 28 21:07:54 <luke-jr> pyther24: your question was unclear
Jun 28 21:08:03 <flailingmonkey> pyther24: ah, so just that one port.
Jun 28 21:08:07 <pyther24> yes
Jun 28 21:08:07 <luke-jr> pyther24: but still, you want the same thing
Jun 28 21:08:08 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: ack
Jun 28 21:08:13 <ShadowJK> Well without script it charfges at 100mA to 3.7V? :)
Jun 28 21:08:31 <DocScrutinizer> that's what I'm about to do now - provide a jrbme with proof of WFM
Jun 28 21:08:35 <microlith> BCMM: not quite (though that'd be cool,) more a processor geared around performing the same sequence of operations to huge chunks of data, usually streaming data
Jun 28 21:08:40 <pyther24> though now that  I think about it, I can't ssh from this phone (port is blocked)
Jun 28 21:08:45 <luke-jr> lol
Jun 28 21:08:47 <pyther24> gah I get to get this stupid network fixed
Jun 28 21:08:50 <DocScrutinizer> plus rationale how it works and why
Jun 28 21:09:04 <alterego> microlith: sounds like OpenCL/CUDA/Stream
Jun 28 21:09:10 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: without enum you can't pull more than 100mA
Jun 28 21:09:12 <pyther24> we need to allow established tcp sessions trusted devices
Jun 28 21:09:18 <microlith> alterego: to some degree, yes
Jun 28 21:09:26 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: how would you enum to a charger?
Jun 28 21:09:36 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: and yes we can ;-P
Jun 28 21:09:44 <jacekowski> ehh
Jun 28 21:09:48 <jacekowski> well, you detect charger
Jun 28 21:09:52 <jacekowski> if it's not a charger
Jun 28 21:09:54 <jacekowski> you have to enum
Jun 28 21:10:03 <DocScrutinizer> and if that fails?
Jun 28 21:10:13 <jacekowski> leave it
Jun 28 21:10:18 <DocScrutinizer> fsckit
Jun 28 21:10:21 <jacekowski> 100mA isn't worth effort
Jun 28 21:10:30 <DocScrutinizer> then it's a charging HUB
Jun 28 21:10:47 <DocScrutinizer> and a charging hub is capable of delivering 500
Jun 28 21:10:47 <jacekowski> or PC
Jun 28 21:10:58 <DocScrutinizer> so if enum fails, we crank up to 500
Jun 28 21:11:04 <jacekowski> with OS that hanged
Jun 28 21:11:13 <DocScrutinizer> I don't care
Jun 28 21:11:21 <jacekowski> or PC connected via cable without d+- lines
Jun 28 21:11:28 <DocScrutinizer> I don't care
Jun 28 21:11:42 <luke-jr> wait, USB devices can crash a PC directly?
Jun 28 21:11:44 <jacekowski> you seem to apply BME policy now
Jun 28 21:11:47 <jacekowski> don't care
Jun 28 21:11:54 <jacekowski> just make it pretend that it's working
Jun 28 21:12:08 <ShadowJK> I wouldn't put no-enum->500mA in any jrbme versions before nokia has stopped the fud ;)
Jun 28 21:12:14 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: you're talking BS and stealing my time.
Jun 28 21:12:17 * DocScrutinizer afk
Jun 28 21:12:41 <microlith> luke-jr: why couldn't they?
Jun 28 21:12:41 <jacekowski> that was harsh
Jun 28 21:12:42 <pyther24> Is fm-boost safe to use?
Jun 28 21:12:46 <Appiah> jupp
Jun 28 21:12:49 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: sorry
Jun 28 21:12:50 <Appiah> I use it everyday
Jun 28 21:13:02 <jacekowski> sort of unexpected from you
Jun 28 21:13:08 <alterego> pyther24: define safe? Do you mean, will it blow your brains up?
Jun 28 21:13:18 <alterego> pyther24: it'll increase battery usage but it's perfectly fine :P
Jun 28 21:13:24 <jacekowski> i would expect that from MohammadAG51
Jun 28 21:13:25 <luke-jr> microlith: circuit breakers to prevent overloading?
Jun 28 21:13:26 <pyther24> alterego, ok cool
Jun 28 21:13:40 <microlith> luke-jr: oh, you said crash, not short
Jun 28 21:13:43 <luke-jr> pyther24: it's illegal in various places
Jun 28 21:13:57 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: sorry again. Look at mug warmers. they do much worse than "no enum?->500"
Jun 28 21:13:58 <pyther24> luke-jr, do you know about the states?
Jun 28 21:14:05 * DocScrutinizer away now
Jun 28 21:14:05 <luke-jr> pyther24: I think so
Jun 28 21:14:07 <Pavlov> is the ovi store down for people?
Jun 28 21:14:16 <Pavlov> "not available for your device" heh
Jun 28 21:14:58 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: if the host doesn't enum, then it's supposed to not break on a attached device drawing 500. period
Jun 28 21:15:07 <microlith> Pavlov: been that way for at least the past week
Jun 28 21:15:09 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: well, i design devices that have to be faultproof and idiotproof and everythingproof
Jun 28 21:15:16 <pyther24> meh I like to live life on the edge
Jun 28 21:15:18 <Pavlov> microlith: it was ok a day or two ago
Jun 28 21:15:31 <luke-jr> pyther24: then you should setup a pirate GSM service too
Jun 28 21:15:44 <luke-jr> pyther24: I'll pay you for service in Omaha
Jun 28 21:15:45 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: so i would just go with option of fallback to safest option
Jun 28 21:15:51 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: fact is almost no host even checks for <500 according to enum
Jun 28 21:16:00 <DocScrutinizer> most don't even check for >500
Jun 28 21:16:04 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: my laptop does
Jun 28 21:16:09 <ShadowJK> mine does
Jun 28 21:16:10 <pyther24> luke-jr, haha I don't think I'll get in much trouble for my fm transmitter be to powerful
Jun 28 21:16:12 <pyther24> at most a fine
Jun 28 21:16:13 <ShadowJK> (desktop)
Jun 28 21:16:17 <jacekowski> i had it killing usb hdd's
Jun 28 21:16:22 <jacekowski> and lot of other stuff
Jun 28 21:16:28 <luke-jr> pyther24: seriously, I'll pay you $30/mo for GSM in Omaha :D
Jun 28 21:16:49 <pyther24> luke-jr, haha, I don't have any background on GSM
Jun 28 21:16:57 <jacekowski> something with usb port that complies with a spec makes you see how many devices don't care about specs
Jun 28 21:17:15 <luke-jr> pyther24: you take the legal and financial risks, I'll do the tech side :D
Jun 28 21:17:30 <DocScrutinizer> there's a butload of USB devices out there that don't even *try* to enum for 500 before starting to draw more than 100
Jun 28 21:17:31 <pyther24> :)
Jun 28 21:17:40 <luke-jr> pyther24: OpenBTS ftw
Jun 28 21:17:54 <DocScrutinizer> and hosts are mandatory able to cope witht hat
Jun 28 21:18:12 <jacekowski> pyther24: fm-boost is illegal in us
Jun 28 21:18:15 <DocScrutinizer> they may shitdown on overcurrent
Jun 28 21:18:18 <ShadowJK> But it seems Nokia had to follow usb spec to the letter to get the USB logo, hence the no_enum->100mA is "correct" in their books :)
Jun 28 21:18:22 <DocScrutinizer> but they mustn't break
Jun 28 21:18:37 <DocScrutinizer> so ->500 on enum-fail is a sane thing to do
Jun 28 21:18:57 <pyther24> jacekowski, do you know the penalties? A fine from the fcc?
Jun 28 21:19:08 <luke-jr> pyther24: life in jail
Jun 28 21:19:09 <luke-jr> j/k
Jun 28 21:19:10 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: sure it is, but do WE care?
Jun 28 21:19:11 <jacekowski> pyther24: couple years jailtime
Jun 28 21:19:15 <luke-jr> jacekowski: srsly?
Jun 28 21:19:25 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, now for real... see ya
Jun 28 21:19:28 <jacekowski> luke-jr: i don't know
Jun 28 21:19:42 <Pavlov> i guess it has sbeen going up and down
Jun 28 21:19:43 <ShadowJK> docscrutinizer: I'd say at first safe and proper, then the fun
Jun 28 21:20:35 <jacekowski> penalty of up to $11000 per day and one year in jail
Jun 28 21:20:59 <pyther24> That is probably for people broadcasting stuff out of their home
Jun 28 21:21:06 <pyther24> they probably don't care much about mobile users
Jun 28 21:21:25 <jacekowski> penalties are still the same
Jun 28 21:21:54 <pyther24> but you'd have to get caught
Jun 28 21:22:03 <jacekowski> that's really easy
Jun 28 21:22:08 <pyther24> how so?
Jun 28 21:23:05 <luke-jr> jacekowski: fm-boost is easy to catch?
Jun 28 21:23:32 <jacekowski> well, any transmission is quite easy to detect
Jun 28 21:23:35 <jacekowski> and triangulate
Jun 28 21:23:41 <jacekowski> in less than second
Jun 28 21:23:42 <luke-jr> jacekowski: triangulation requires signal AFAIK
Jun 28 21:23:55 <jacekowski> and technology has been around for like 70 years now
Jun 28 21:24:02 <luke-jr> fm-boost has a range so short, you'd be able to just glance around
Jun 28 21:24:31 <BCMM> tbh, the laws are there for targeting pirate radio stations, and probably nobody will notice
Jun 28 21:24:48 <flailingmonkey> frankly, they just don't care
Jun 28 21:24:50 <jacekowski> luke-jr: not really
Jun 28 21:24:53 <BCMM> if it got popular, some police department with nothing better to do could start trying
Jun 28 21:24:57 <jacekowski> luke-jr: every radio signal has infinite range
Jun 28 21:25:14 <jacekowski> luke-jr: but it's getting weaker with distance
Jun 28 21:25:20 <BCMM> you could do it by cruising up and down a busy highway with the right equipment...
Jun 28 21:25:21 <jacekowski> luke-jr: but it never disappears
Jun 28 21:25:44 <BCMM> jacekowski: of course it doesn't; it just gets drown by all the other source of radio noise
Jun 28 21:26:16 <jacekowski> and triangulation is just a matter of seconds
Jun 28 21:26:23 <BCMM> like big transmitters, and static, and the CMB, and lighting strikes and spark plugs and people with cheap carpets and cheaper shoes
Jun 28 21:26:40 <jacekowski> during WWII technology allowed to detect transmissions from far far away
Jun 28 21:26:42 <flailingmonkey> the laws exist so that, if they want to arrest you, they can usually find some law you've broken
Jun 28 21:26:44 <jacekowski> that were only seconds long
Jun 28 21:26:48 <luke-jr> if you could get the timing just right, you might be able to have multiple diverse transmitters broadcast the same data concurrently and confuse triangulation
Jun 28 21:27:20 <BCMM> anyway, they'd have to actually notice the transmission first
Jun 28 21:27:34 <BCMM> and hte n900 can't go that far over regulatory requirements
Jun 28 21:27:50 <jacekowski> BCMM: that was the thing with technology
Jun 28 21:27:57 <jacekowski> BCMM: 70 years ago
Jun 28 21:28:00 <BCMM> from a long range, you'd be hard-pressed to distinguish an illegal device inside a car from a legal one not inside a car
Jun 28 21:28:09 <jacekowski> BCMM: there was couple antennas around the country
Jun 28 21:28:16 <jacekowski> BCMM: sets of antennas
Jun 28 21:28:40 <jacekowski> BCMM: and every single set was able to detect direction quite precisely
Jun 28 21:29:08 <luke-jr> meh
Jun 28 21:29:08 <jacekowski> BCMM: and then you just use data from all of them and you have your source
Jun 28 21:29:17 <luke-jr> just set off an EMP before you setup the transmitter
Jun 28 21:29:27 <luke-jr> then you can be sure nobody will triangulate
Jun 28 21:29:38 <BCMM> jacekowski: i seriously doubt that the n900's FM could be detected from tens of miles away
Jun 28 21:29:50 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: btw though "no enum -> 100" might be correct in their book, trying to enum forever and even increasing power drain from bat by that surely isn't
Jun 28 21:29:57 <BCMM> jacekowski: not because it would be too weak, but just because we make so much noise these days
Jun 28 21:30:22 <jacekowski> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_Cage
Jun 28 21:30:29 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: so they didn't adhere to what's corect in their book
Jun 28 21:31:04 <DocScrutinizer> and we won't learn to do it better, by RE of BME
Jun 28 21:31:21 <jacekowski> The arrangement permits accurate direction finding of signals from up to 4000 nautical miles (7 408 km) away.
Jun 28 21:31:46 <jacekowski> Advances in technology have made the FLR-9 almost obsolete.
Jun 28 21:32:34 <BCMM> jacekowski: "Each ring of elements receives rf signals for an assigned portion of the 1.5 to 30-MHz radio spectrum."
Jun 28 21:33:26 <BCMM> jacekowski: also, it sounds as if it was being used by intelligence services, rather than by local cops chasing pirate radio stations
Jun 28 21:34:19 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: they can't tell apart -111 from -103 dBm even for transmitters more than 100m away
Jun 28 21:34:38 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: so don't worry
Jun 28 21:35:08 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: i wasn't worrying
Jun 28 21:35:22 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: i think i said as much by saying that being inside a metal box like a car probably makes a greater difference to signal strength than fm-boost does
Jun 28 21:35:40 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: jacekowski: telling directions precisely is a different story than telling TX power correctly
Jun 28 21:35:50 <BCMM> thank you :)
Jun 28 21:36:17 <jacekowski> but it's still illegal
Jun 28 21:36:24 <jacekowski> and he can still go to jail
Jun 28 21:36:33 <BCMM> jacekowski: no he can't because he won't be caught...
Jun 28 21:36:54 <BCMM> basically, a bunch of stuff is illegal
Jun 28 21:37:14 <BCMM> i think using fm-boost is probably safer than pot or downloading mp3s
Jun 28 21:38:08 <alterego> Where's the maemo source tree now-a-days?
Jun 28 21:38:13 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: any idea what sort of tech they do use for tracking pirate stations, given that multimillion dollar military sigint facilities are probably busy doing something else?
Jun 28 21:38:18 <alterego> Can't find the subversion for all their packages ..
Jun 28 21:39:17 <DocScrutinizer51> doesn't matter as n900 isn't a pirate station by their definitions
Jun 28 21:40:24 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer51: so broadcasting slightly over what is permitted is a different crime from running a proper pirate radio station that you can listen to a block away?
Jun 28 21:40:40 <DocScrutinizer51> your neighbour might complain, then FCC or whoever sends a RF analizer truck
Jun 28 21:41:06 <DocScrutinizer51> yes
Jun 28 21:41:27 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer51: and i wasn't asking because i think anyone is going to track down an n900's fmtx, i was just curious
Jun 28 21:42:54 <flailingmonkey> alterego: its on gitoreous
Jun 28 21:43:40 <luke-jr> alterego: Maemo isn't open source.
Jun 28 21:43:49 <DocScrutinizer51> basically there's not going to be any autonomous action by FCC. It's always somebody complaining and then they come, locate the device, andmcheck it
Jun 28 21:43:55 <alterego> luke-jr: a lot of it's components are, and I'm looking for them.
Jun 28 21:43:57 <luke-jr> alterego: various (mostly independent) parts/libraires used are
Jun 28 21:44:07 <luke-jr> but don't expect them to have source in the same place
Jun 28 21:44:14 <luke-jr> and very few projects use Subversion anymore
Jun 28 21:44:21 <flailingmonkey> this whole discussion is moot, as the whole point of the fm tx requires a relatively quiet frequency, and won't interrupt licensed broadcasters
Jun 28 21:44:24 <alterego> There's a fair amount of open Nokia projects too. Regardless, why are you mentioning this when all I want to know is the location of their source tree?
Jun 28 21:44:35 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer51: wait, so if I run a pirate GSM service, and nobody complains, I can get away with it?
Jun 28 21:44:45 <ShadowJK> maemo.gitorious.org has alot of it iirc
Jun 28 21:44:55 * DrGrov needs something to do until 04:00 which is still 3h 15min away. Suggestions are accepted
Jun 28 21:44:56 <DocScrutinizer51> if they find the device doesn't comply, then they may ask you to fix that, or sue you
Jun 28 21:44:56 <flailingmonkey> luke-jr: set pedantic_mode=off
Jun 28 21:45:00 <alterego> They used to have it all under subversion under maemo.org but I'm guessing that's dead now and I can't off hand remember where it was ..
Jun 28 21:45:11 <DocScrutinizer51> luke-jr: sure
Jun 28 21:45:15 <flailingmonkey> ShadowJK: thanks, i knew i misspelled it
Jun 28 21:45:39 <alterego> Well, I'll try the git then
Jun 28 21:45:52 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer51: "sue you"? so it's actually only a civil issue?
Jun 28 21:45:56 <flailingmonkey> and the idea of criminal charges for that whole topic is beyond farfetched.
Jun 28 21:45:58 <luke-jr> alterego: there's a bit of learning curve, but git is awesome
Jun 28 21:46:08 <flailingmonkey> BCMM: yes.
Jun 28 21:46:10 <DocScrutinizer51> BCMM: depend
Jun 28 21:46:12 <alterego> luke-jr: yeah, I'm going to have to learn it one of these days :)
Jun 28 21:46:19 <DocScrutinizer51> mostly yes
Jun 28 21:46:42 <luke-jr> flailingmonkey: pretty sure if you disrupt 911 service for a major city, it'll be criminal :)
Jun 28 21:47:00 <DocScrutinizer51> BCMM: except if you did something dangerous like interfering with airplane radio etc
Jun 28 21:47:18 <BCMM> heh
Jun 28 21:47:46 <DrGrov> Anyone got a screenshot of that latest R-Style Green Theme by D-Iivil that has come to the extras repositories?
Jun 28 21:48:01 <alterego> Has anyone tried to "backport" any of the apps Nokia are doing for fremantle which are in gitorious?
Jun 28 21:48:01 <DrGrov> Would love to see a screenshot
Jun 28 21:48:21 <alterego> I mean t Harmattan ...
Jun 28 21:48:24 <luke-jr> alterego: unlikely, as there's no platform to backport to
Jun 28 21:48:28 <luke-jr> oh
Jun 28 21:49:26 <BCMM> talking of themes, my phone seems to have cached an image of app manager using a previous theme, and shows it for a few seconds when i start app manager
Jun 28 21:49:28 <alterego> luke-jr: actually, I just saw "MeeGo Image Editor" and thought, ooo, maybe I can back port it. But it looks like an example program which may not be of any use...
Jun 28 21:49:31 <BCMM> how do i make it forget that?
Jun 28 21:50:35 <dima202> is there a finished pipboy theme?
Jun 28 21:52:49 <alterego> I don't get it, why is libsharing closed source, at leasat, I can't find the source for it ...
Jun 28 21:53:03 <SpeedEvil> http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/06/28/1932245/Porn-Industry-Ready-To-Drop-Flash Woo!
Jun 28 21:53:17 <SpeedEvil> Historically, they've always been the techincal leader in the internet.
Jun 28 21:53:18 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 28 21:53:24 <alterego> Heh
Jun 28 21:53:37 <alterego> That and this poises them for iPhone domination ..
Jun 28 21:54:00 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: though in case of a GSM station run on a official GSM band you can be sure the owners of that band will complain after a short while, as they constantly check their network for each aspect of service quality, incl interferences by unauthorized transmitters
Jun 28 21:54:19 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: 900 MHz is free-for-all in the US
Jun 28 21:54:42 <BCMM> alterego: yeah, they'd be fools to ignore the iphone: people who will unquestioningly pay money for stuff, and probably have a lot of free time
Jun 28 21:54:46 <luke-jr> but FCC still regulates a max on power used
Jun 28 21:54:57 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: anyway no attorney worldwide is paying patrols to find GSM pirates or any othe pirate/non-conforming TX
Jun 28 21:55:04 <DocScrutinizer> on a regular base
Jun 28 21:55:33 <BCMM> anyone know what the UK law is on FM microbroadcasting?
Jun 28 21:55:52 <alterego> BCMM: permissable
Jun 28 21:56:05 <BCMM> i know; i meant power limits and so on
Jun 28 21:56:11 <alterego> There are power limitations
Jun 28 21:56:11 <flailingmonkey> luke-jr: you might be right, but I look forward to your scenario of how fm-boost will disrupt 911 service for a major city :)
Jun 28 21:56:19 <alterego> Oh, I don't knkow off hand tbh
Jun 28 21:56:22 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: then you're free to run a gsm station on 900MHz according to the T&C for this "free for all" which probably means you have to reduce bandwidth, TX-power and whatnot
Jun 28 21:56:25 <luke-jr> flailingmonkey: I was suggesting pirate GSM service
Jun 28 21:56:40 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: right, but if nobody enforces the TX-power rules...
Jun 28 21:56:41 <BCMM> alterego: well, i figured there were limits, since we have large-scale fm broadcasting too
Jun 28 21:56:46 <BCMM> i just wondered what they were
Jun 28 21:57:17 <flailingmonkey> sure, but our origin was someone saying that using fm-boost would land you in jail
Jun 28 21:57:24 <crashanddie> BCMM: 50 nanoWatts, IIRC
Jun 28 21:57:32 <DocScrutinizer> then nobody is doing a hobby job to find and sue you, most probably
Jun 28 21:57:48 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: or 15
Jun 28 21:58:20 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil knows better
Jun 28 21:59:02 * DocScrutinizer waves
Jun 28 22:03:14 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: please don't wave at me too...
Jun 28 22:04:34 <jacekowski> damn you steve jobs
Jun 28 22:04:38 <jacekowski> and you drm
Jun 28 22:04:52 <jacekowski> and your not working itunes store
Jun 28 22:10:45 <dima202> has anyone gotten deluge client working on n900?
Jun 28 22:11:00 <blizzow> Does anyone here have problems with fmms taking over the internet connection and not switching back to their regular provider?  (even in polite mode)
Jun 28 22:13:07 <DocScrutinizer51> who wrote simple brightness?
Jun 28 22:13:31 <rafaelbrandao> I'm trying to install a source code on my n810 but here says "./configure: Permission denied" after using "sudo gainroot". Am I missing something?
Jun 28 22:13:54 <luke-jr> rafaelbrandao: yes
Jun 28 22:14:06 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer51, qwerty
Jun 28 22:14:16 <DocScrutinizer51> aah
Jun 28 22:14:18 <luke-jr> rafaelbrandao: it is *always* bad practice to "install a source code" as you describe
Jun 28 22:14:19 <DocScrutinizer51> tnx
Jun 28 22:14:45 <rafaelbrandao> luke-jr, but in this case I don't have any option.
Jun 28 22:15:58 <rafaelbrandao> luke-jr, so is there a way I can get it done?
Jun 28 22:16:42 <luke-jr> rafaelbrandao: you can't make a package why?
Jun 28 22:18:40 <rafaelbrandao> luke-jr, actually I've never tried that. so this might be the way to get it done, right? I'll try.
Jun 28 22:21:25 <luke-jr> rafaelbrandao: as to your actual problem, you can't do it under MyDocs
Jun 28 22:22:54 <rafaelbrandao> I was trying it inside internal memory card, then I've moved to /home/user/ folder, but both didn't work.
Jun 28 22:25:29 <luke-jr> you need to stay on /home/user only
Jun 28 22:25:35 <luke-jr> well
Jun 28 22:25:42 <luke-jr> really you need to make a package or such
Jun 28 22:25:57 <luke-jr> but IF you wanted to do it the broken way that will mess up your system, you'd need to stick to /home/user
Jun 28 22:30:01 <rafaelbrandao> Hm, I was doing fine with ./configure on scratchbox but now I need it on my n810. I'm trying to figure out how to make a package of it.
Jun 28 22:41:50 <rafaelbrandao> Oh, no. It didn't work: "Source file is a bz2 but bzip2 or gzip not available at /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/dh_make"
Jun 28 22:56:00 <cehteh> http://www.christeck.de/wp/products/routino-frontend/ .. anyone wants to package that?
Jun 28 22:56:49 <SpeedEvil> Why do I know that name...
Jun 28 22:57:13 <cehteh> what name?
Jun 28 22:57:23 <SpeedEvil> Andrew Bishop
Jun 28 22:57:29 <cehteh> heh dunno :)
Jun 28 22:57:50 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 28 22:57:51 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:N900_Hardware
Jun 28 22:57:52 <SpeedEvil> err - no
Jun 28 22:58:01 <SpeedEvil> http://www.gedanken.demon.co.uk/wwwoffle/
Jun 28 22:58:09 <SpeedEvil> A useful offline/online web-proxy
Jun 28 22:58:24 <cehteh> christoph (the blogger/frontend programmer) asked me today about packaging it, he is not on irc, i just proxy his question
Jun 28 22:58:56 <cehteh> i think that has some potential, albeit just being a working hack for now
Jun 28 23:45:55 <opdf2> anyone with froyo on n900?
Jun 29 00:08:38 <pigeon> weird, i'm surprised pingus isn't in the repo... or no one has been maintaining the maemo port
Jun 29 00:11:01 <pupnik_> pigeon: some memory collectin problems - i can't release it
Jun 29 00:15:04 <pigeon> pupnik_: oh!
Jun 29 00:15:22 <pupnik_> someone else can try
Jun 29 00:15:44 <pigeon> pupnik_: do tell, what do you mean by memory collecting?
Jun 29 00:16:03 <pupnik_> i'm seeing hiccups in game pay and iirc that is garbage collection
Jun 29 00:16:10 <pupnik_> play
Jun 29 00:16:42 <pigeon> what is pingus written in? it does gc itself?
Jun 29 00:18:31 <pigeon> ah, c++? seeing it needs libboost
Jun 29 00:20:22 <pupnik_> needs a bit of repositioning of elements for 800x480 also
Jun 29 00:21:27 <pigeon> right
Jun 29 00:24:23 * b-man yawns
Jun 29 00:28:38 * DocScrutinizer shoots at b-man with a hyper-accelerated-coffeine gun
Jun 29 00:39:16 <b-man> lol
Jun 29 00:39:47 <b-man> ~nuke DocScrutinizer
Jun 29 00:39:48 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at DocScrutinizer ... B☢☢M!
Jun 29 00:45:03 * b-man is bored
Jun 29 00:45:22 <b-man> i never really got around to showing you guys this but:
Jun 29 00:45:29 <b-man> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2fJB1VMaOY
Jun 29 00:45:31 <b-man> ^ EF4 recorded by a traffic camera tornado that passed about 6 miles north of my house a few weeks back
Jun 29 00:45:53 <b-man> *EF4 tornado
Jun 29 00:45:54 * DocScrutinizer51 runs a portscan and pentest against b-man 
Jun 29 00:46:06 <b-man> LOL
Jun 29 00:46:07 <asj> and people wonder why I left indiana
Jun 29 00:46:41 <b-man> it's crazy though
Jun 29 00:46:43 <DocScrutinizer51> to cure the boredom of your life
Jun 29 00:46:59 <asj> well something exciting has to happen....
Jun 29 00:48:01 <b-man> http://www.draconidigital.com/tornado.htm < more pictures/footage
Jun 29 00:48:31 <b-man> brb
Jun 29 00:48:41 <keemo> Hi
Jun 29 00:48:52 <keemo> Kifkom?
Jun 29 00:49:59 <DocScrutinizer51> hkiag.pqagb.aeg??
Jun 29 00:50:30 <DocScrutinizer51> jhdfhyr JFJRJRE!!!!
Jun 29 01:08:28 <Termana> yello
Jun 29 01:08:36 <asj> orange
Jun 29 01:08:46 <b-man> apple
Jun 29 01:09:08 <b-man> xDDDD
Jun 29 01:09:39 <Termana> b-man, I was hoping you were here :P
Jun 29 01:09:49 <Termana> I have a couple of things to ask
Jun 29 01:10:23 <Termana> b-man, do you still have this image: http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/mer/screenshots/screenshot01.png
Jun 29 01:10:49 <b-man> i might
Jun 29 01:10:51 <b-man> 1 sec
Jun 29 01:12:12 <b-man> i can't seem to find it :S
Jun 29 01:13:17 <Termana> b-man, no problem :P Whenever you find yourself bored as hell with nothing to do, can I get you to look at something for me? *BSD (with x86 emulation) on the n900? (I don't have an n900 and the FreeBSD image crashes on my n810)
Jun 29 01:13:35 <b-man> sure :)
Jun 29 01:13:40 <Termana> thanks :)
Jun 29 01:13:57 <b-man> although i've tried BSD on my N800 without luck :(
Jun 29 01:14:05 <b-man> but
Jun 29 01:14:26 <b-man> since the N900 has 2.1x the power, it may work ;)
Jun 29 01:15:16 <Termana> I had a small (but useless) NetBSD image running under Bochs on my n810. But trying to boot the freebsd image A) Took forever and B) Eventually made Bochs quit with an error
Jun 29 01:16:06 <b-man> perhaps qemu is more suitable :)
Jun 29 01:16:40 <Termana> mmm, I could try. Is it available under Ubuntu's 9.04 ARM repo? (Mer)
Jun 29 01:16:52 <b-man> it should be
Jun 29 01:17:24 <b-man> however if i have to, i'll just compile an optimized version for maemo ;)
Jun 29 01:20:46 <b-man> i've already tested qemu-system-arm along with a minimal ulibc linux system with a DirectFB interface and it performed quite well
Jun 29 01:21:48 <b-man> way better than what my N800 did under the same test :)
Jun 29 01:22:10 <b-man> g2g - going to a coffee shop :P
Jun 29 01:44:04 <DocScrutinizer51> I really think it's silly to run a FOSS OS under a cpu emulator
Jun 29 01:44:53 <DocScrutinizer51> rather use a generic version and make it run natively
Jun 29 01:49:19 <Termana> DocScrutinizer51, You would need to implement the armv7 code, the OMAP code, the board specific code, the peripheral code. The *BSD trees have none of this AFAIK
Jun 29 01:56:44 <DocScrutinizer51> errr
Jun 29 01:57:26 <DocScrutinizer51> target=armel; chroot mynativeimg
Jun 29 01:58:14 <Termana> DocScrutinizer51, ? You can't chroot into a *BSD image from Linux... unless I've been missing out on something
Jun 29 01:59:25 <DocScrutinizer51> whateveryou do to make it run, emulating a x86 is idiotic
Jun 29 01:59:38 <luke-jr> he was emulating an ARM
Jun 29 01:59:48 <luke-jr> neither kqemu nor KVM support ARM
Jun 29 02:00:06 <luke-jr> also, what do you think x86 CPUs do?
Jun 29 02:00:08 <luke-jr> they emulate x86
Jun 29 02:00:10 <luke-jr> :p
Jun 29 02:01:02 * luke-jr thinks Intel could feasably kill AMD off by opening the RISC "x86" instruction set(s)
Jun 29 02:01:06 <Termana> luke-jr, actually *I* was emulating x86 with Bochs. It would be fair to say I should use qemu-system-arm if I'm using qemu.
Jun 29 02:01:18 <luke-jr> [20:20:46] <b-man> i've already tested qemu-system-arm along with a minimal ulibc linux system with a DirectFB interface and it performed quite well
Jun 29 02:01:44 <luke-jr> anyhow, it should be *possible* to run BSD chroot on Linux
Jun 29 02:01:48 <luke-jr> but nfc if anyone's done it
Jun 29 02:02:34 <luke-jr> proof of concept: LUK supports two independent syscall tables-- the normal Linux syscalls, and the NT syscalls
Jun 29 02:02:51 <luke-jr> therefore executing binaries for either platform as equals
Jun 29 02:02:52 <Termana> To be honest, I don't see much point in chroot into a BSD image from Linux. Your still running on Linux - wheres the joy in that, you may as well just use a normal linux userland
Jun 29 02:03:02 <luke-jr> true
Jun 29 02:05:30 <Termana> and thats the reasons why I think crashanddie is a great guy
Jun 29 02:05:36 <Termana> Oh hey crashanddie!
Jun 29 02:05:38 <Termana> :P
Jun 29 02:15:23 <DocScrutinizer51> seems someone posted a psychotrop mantra to the channel
Jun 29 02:20:52 <rafaelbrandao> packaging is harder than it seens. :(
Jun 29 02:35:11 <DocScrutinizer> If pigs eat sand, they'd probably shit next generation SoCs
Jun 29 02:35:52 * raster starts pig farming
Jun 29 02:36:16 * DocScrutinizer starts selling perfumes
Jun 29 02:37:26 <DocScrutinizer> honestly - x86-BSD in bochs on a ARM-linux, how lame is *that*?
Jun 29 02:38:04 <raster> thats lame
Jun 29 02:38:34 <raster> every time someone goes "oh woot heres windows xp on my phone" ... i sigh
Jun 29 02:38:36 <raster> lame
Jun 29 02:40:37 <DocScrutinizer> even virtualbox to run a linux on a linux is rather lame, when you think of doing that on a 500MHz ARM with 256MB of RAM
Jun 29 02:41:07 <doc|home> is there a way to have the n900 emulate voicemail? i.e. instead of picking up the phone automatically records the message
Jun 29 02:41:32 <DocScrutinizer> there are projects tackling that afaik
Jun 29 02:41:34 <SpeedEvil> In principle, yes, the hardware can do that.
Jun 29 02:41:37 <DocScrutinizer> it's feasible
Jun 29 02:41:46 <SpeedEvil> In practice, I don't think anyone has released anything.
Jun 29 02:41:52 <doc|home> ok, thanks for the reply
Jun 29 02:42:03 <DocScrutinizer> there's call recorder though
Jun 29 02:42:20 <DocScrutinizer> which is basically doing all you need
Jun 29 02:42:41 <DocScrutinizer> think the package is called diferently, but it's a call recorder
Jun 29 02:42:49 <doc|home> DocScrutinizer: yeah, just need it to automate the pickup and message play though :/
Jun 29 02:43:00 <DocScrutinizer> so what?
Jun 29 02:43:11 <DocScrutinizer> that's prolly the easy part
Jun 29 02:43:25 <DocScrutinizer> compared to messing around with friggin PA
Jun 29 02:43:36 <doc|home> PA?
Jun 29 02:43:47 <DocScrutinizer> pulse audio BS
Jun 29 02:44:04 <doc|home> I don't have any time whatsoever to put into it :/
Jun 29 02:44:09 <doc|home> I barely have time to sleep these days
Jun 29 02:45:12 <DocScrutinizer> doc|home: you'll need to find the time to browse thru the garage projects. Guess you'll find something interesting
Jun 29 02:45:25 <doc|home> thanks
Jun 29 02:46:13 <flailingmonkey> emulating an x86 for the purpose of running an OS is a terrible idea for a phone
Jun 29 02:46:26 <DocScrutinizer> lol, yeah
Jun 29 02:46:31 <flailingmonkey> especially when you can run it somewhere else and vnc
Jun 29 02:46:44 <DocScrutinizer> or just run it natively
Jun 29 02:47:45 <DocScrutinizer> gnutoo, debian, meego... afaik all those run natively on N900. Don't see why BSD can't
Jun 29 02:48:19 <flailingmonkey> it could, but it would be more work
Jun 29 02:48:38 * DocScrutinizer yawns, bored
Jun 29 02:49:32 <DocScrutinizer> it would be *less* work... for the cpu :-P
Jun 29 02:49:58 <flailingmonkey> heh, indeed
Jun 29 02:50:08 <DocScrutinizer> so much less that it even might make sense - as opposed to running x86 BSD in bochs
Jun 29 02:50:36 <asj> netbsd is centered around portability....why not just do that?
Jun 29 02:51:13 <DocScrutinizer> asj: I'm missing the point in discussion for quite some hours now. So don't ask me
Jun 29 02:51:51 * DocScrutinizer yawns again, and decides it's time for breakfast at bakery
Jun 29 02:51:55 <asj> DocScrutinizer: since when did irc need a point? :)
Jun 29 02:52:08 <Termana> Excuse me if I may, since your been shunning what I tried for the last half an hour.
Jun 29 02:52:13 <Termana> you've*
Jun 29 02:52:30 <Termana> But, I don't intend to run this all the time. Its called experimenting.
Jun 29 02:52:46 <flailingmonkey> for those interested in netbsd on N900: http://www.netbsd.org/docs/kernel/porting_netbsd_arm-soc.html
Jun 29 02:53:08 <Termana> And if you weren't such a faggot, you would understand that. No wonder this community is failing.
Jun 29 02:53:12 <asj> flailingmonkey: lol 404
Jun 29 02:53:24 <flailingmonkey> boo
Jun 29 02:53:29 <flailingmonkey> for those interested in netbsd on N900: http://www.netbsd.org/docs/kernel/porting_netbsd_arm_soc.html
Jun 29 02:53:31 <doc|home> hmm, is Termana how people spell "dick" these days?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 29 02:59:57 2010