**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 03 02:59:56 2010 Jul 03 03:14:12 hi there! Jul 03 03:16:42 i'm testing voice calls via jabber, and it working, since 1.2, but opponents doesn't hear me (but if i calling echo bot (asterisk and telepathy) — it hears me). Jul 03 03:17:19 anybody have any ideas, how it can be? :) Jul 03 03:21:17 any Qt devs here? Jul 03 03:22:22 opponents? Jul 03 03:23:03 ManoftheSea, not everyone are native english speaker, I doubt you're having trouble understanding what he says Jul 03 03:25:16 mva: maybe I'm just deaf Jul 03 03:25:19 or had the volume too low Jul 03 03:25:21 :) Jul 03 03:26:02 no-no Jul 03 03:26:12 majik doesn't hear me too Jul 03 03:26:27 ManoftheSea, for example, luke-jr ;) Jul 03 03:28:42 ManoftheSea: it's not a game without opponents! Jul 03 03:31:12 hi, does anyone knows if its posible to eliminate the interference caused by the internet connection on the n900? Jul 03 03:37:06 rodald: there is no interference :) Jul 03 03:37:53 how comes mine does cause interference? Jul 03 03:38:03 it couldn't, or FCC wouldn't approve Jul 03 03:38:50 right now im infrot of a tv and it makes sounds and disrupts the image Jul 03 03:42:52 what interference? Jul 03 03:43:03 oh, that's GSM... Jul 03 03:43:10 from the internet connection? Jul 03 03:43:24 My cell phone makes speakers buzz in a distinctive pattern. Jul 03 03:43:47 also, luke-jr, it's a radiative device, it CAN cause interference. Jul 03 03:43:54 yes thats what i am talking about Jul 03 03:44:05 luke-jr, lol Jul 03 03:44:07 the best way is to move it a couple feet away Jul 03 03:44:50 luke-jr, when i call myself with psi from anoter jid (btw, voice only) — i hear myself. Jul 03 03:45:13 http://www.hideipvpn.com/2010/02/howto-nokia-n900-os-maemo-openvpn-setup-tutorial/ I followed this guide and it keeps asking for user/pass - any ideas? Jul 03 03:45:15 luke-jr, but when i call myself from n900 to Psi — i hear not. Jul 03 03:45:45 shorter: did you set up a user/pass? Jul 03 03:45:49 yeah but i work at a call center and it realy sucks not been able to use my device Jul 03 03:46:01 it doesn't require one Jul 03 03:46:11 then no, I have no ideas. Jul 03 03:46:35 it stoped for a few days but then it came back Jul 03 04:10:07 connecting with vncviewer to a tightvnc server. getting all caps (except when i type two keys really fast, the second is lower-case). Jul 03 04:10:22 i've only seen one report of that online with no confirmation. anyone else seen that? Jul 03 04:11:12 openvpn applet on n900 requires a configuration file - is there an easy way to make one? Jul 03 04:11:16 er generate? Jul 03 04:19:35 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=619254#post619254 some shit renamed my device to something retarded, as per this thread Jul 03 04:19:44 no big deal I guess, but it is unsettling Jul 03 04:35:21 I'm getting socket.connection failed on openvpn Jul 03 04:47:19 i can't seem to get media player to detect songs on external drive Jul 03 04:48:02 is there a .conf for media player so i can tell it where to scan for media? Jul 03 05:01:26 Hi does anyone out there know if GSM is working in debian or ubuntu for n900? Jul 03 05:06:54 anyone have a config file for their n900 openvpn client they can lend me? Jul 03 05:16:00 where does openvpn applet put logs? Jul 03 05:16:04 I need to trouble shoot this Jul 03 05:30:55 looks like i will go with fbsd8 Jul 03 05:35:23 for waht Jul 03 05:35:53 a shell and dns box using my artigo Jul 03 05:36:38 it is a 1GHz C7 Jul 03 05:36:55 real small 10W box... strong for its size though Jul 03 05:37:49 im watching the smartest guys in the room Jul 03 05:37:54 i love this movie Jul 03 06:03:46 moo all Jul 03 06:14:47 woof Jul 03 06:23:24 meeow Jul 03 06:51:54 is there a way to know if the phone s currently on EDGE? Jul 03 06:51:58 (programatically) Jul 03 06:53:44 as opposed to 3G or as opposed to gprs? Jul 03 06:56:08 I want to determine fast/slow connection Jul 03 06:56:29 fast as in hspa or fast as in edge? Jul 03 06:57:39 fast as in >5KB/s Jul 03 06:58:01 lol Jul 03 07:00:06 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43411 gsm/3g/dual Jul 03 07:00:32 currently Jul 03 07:00:33 not config Jul 03 07:00:43 "Dual" can still mean '2.5G connection' Jul 03 07:01:16 I want to switch to 'low bandwidth mode' in my app in case user's on edge Jul 03 07:05:24 LiraNuna: stupid idea - a speed test Jul 03 07:05:30 and/or let the user pick Jul 03 07:06:07 letting the user pick is fine Jul 03 07:06:10 but I want an auto mode Jul 03 07:06:16 I want to switch to 'low bandwidth mode' in my app in case user's on edge Jul 03 07:06:40 make a speed test Jul 03 07:06:59 my 3g connection sucks balls sometimes, so i'd appreciate low-bandwidth mode there Jul 03 07:10:07 kerio, I'm aiming at fast startup time Jul 03 07:10:15 speed test would mean wait period Jul 03 07:34:08 ok. this kb is downright terrible Jul 03 07:37:01 what kb? Jul 03 07:37:15 n900 Jul 03 07:37:56 it makes the n810 look good Jul 03 07:37:57 i would've liked the space more centered, yeah Jul 03 07:38:04 or you mean the on-screen keyboard? Jul 03 07:38:17 i mean the hw keys Jul 03 07:38:35 dont even see an osk Jul 03 07:39:50 i find the hw keyboard quite comfortable Jul 03 07:40:09 way better than motorola droid/milestone, which is just too flat Jul 03 07:40:27 its a pain Jul 03 07:47:07 it makes the n810 look good Jul 03 07:47:13 what's wrong about the N810's keyboard? Jul 03 07:56:17 LiraNuna, I have an n810. At first I liked it. And then I didn't. The keys are small and not responsive enough (as in they don't make a good click, down and up) Jul 03 07:58:50 Termana, meh Jul 03 07:58:55 keys are good enough Jul 03 07:59:04 yeah, feels good to me Jul 03 07:59:16 my gripe is the sucky buggy software Jul 03 07:59:23 with no updates forthcoming Jul 03 07:59:32 and closed components :( Jul 03 08:00:24 those have been reverse engineered mostly Jul 03 08:00:57 AStorm, mostly? Jul 03 08:01:46 all I know about is wifi becoming GPL Jul 03 08:53:35 is there a way to access the IR port with, say, minicom? Jul 03 08:53:41 what's the device file? Jul 03 08:57:07 luke-jr: mva: rodald: far end RX mute usually caused by NAT or firewall issues. || Interference? Don't tell me now there's GSM buzz on N900 o.O I doubt we'll find a buzzfix for this device -> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2008-September/000603.html Jul 03 08:57:41 http://conversations.nokia.com/design-by-community/ Jul 03 08:58:00 and they've moved deadline again :) Jul 03 08:58:25 can i use minicom with /dev/lirc0? Jul 03 08:58:43 kerio: IR is TX only (CIR aka customer IR). *NO* IrDA Jul 03 08:59:25 oh :( Jul 03 08:59:29 why is that? Jul 03 09:00:06 dunno. Technically because there's only an IR-LED Jul 03 09:00:11 speaking of the CIR Jul 03 09:00:20 is there any tv-remote app for n900? Jul 03 09:00:27 arachnist: qtirreco Jul 03 09:00:30 IrReco Jul 03 09:00:43 the qt version is simpler to install and easier to use Jul 03 09:00:47 only supports the n900 though Jul 03 09:01:57 "The fact that others may agree with my opinion is pure coincidence. I do not have the authority to speak on behalf of my client nor for myself when my wife is present." nice Jul 03 09:02:36 "nor for myself when my wife is present.", lol Jul 03 09:04:35 DocScrutinizer: what if i want to just manually send data through the IR? Jul 03 09:05:21 kerio: then you send data. Jul 03 09:06:01 yeah but how? Jul 03 09:06:12 sending data to /dev/lirc0? Jul 03 09:06:33 kerio: never tried, but yes probably Jul 03 09:06:53 ~status Jul 03 09:07:09 Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer) Jul 03 09:11:00 kerio: hw level it's a GPIO on SoC that directly switches on and off the IR LED. This GPIO also can be controlled my a hw counter/divider/PWM so you can generate several fixed frequency square wave patterns without cpu sw control overhead Jul 03 09:20:15 ~status Jul 03 09:20:30 Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer) Jul 03 09:22:08 that design by community page is the most damning piece of evidence against design-by-community Jul 03 09:23:13 You know, I think I understand now why iPhone and Android have had such an imact, and why Nokia are losing traction. Jul 03 09:23:43 any one answer is wrong Jul 03 09:24:17 It's all about shiny isn't it. When you buy something you want it to be the newest and the best. Nokia don't have the new shiney appeal, the just churn out extremely capable devices like water. Jul 03 09:24:29 haha wtf dolby surround sound Jul 03 09:24:47 Apple are all about shiney, everything they do is a reinvention of an already available technology or concept. Jul 03 09:25:05 And Android are the new kid on the block. Which is not Apple .. Jul 03 09:25:12 alterego: tbh, they * do* tend to reinvent it in a way that's incredibly easy to use Jul 03 09:25:36 kerio: you mean stupid. Jul 03 09:25:48 They dumb things down, which works. Jul 03 09:25:59 well, yeah Jul 03 09:26:02 But not for everyone, not even a majority of everyone. Jul 03 09:27:43 So, I'm thinking, MeeGo is Nokias new shiny. they're trying to reinvent Symbian, which will take a lot of work. As much as I dislike coding for Symbian, Nokias Series 60 is the most capable mobile OS on the market. Jul 03 09:27:45 nah, i'm pretty sure that the majority of everyone *is* stupid Jul 03 09:28:02 http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/goodbye-hdmi-hello-hdbaset/ ? Jul 03 09:28:05 But it only has 2/5 of the smart phone market, that's a fucking joke. Jul 03 09:29:36 it's not so surprising Jul 03 09:30:19 otoh, I'm not sure I'd call iOS or even Android that smart .. Jul 03 09:30:36 Unless we want to stick Symbian in the Super smart superlative. Jul 03 09:30:42 an interesting phenomenon here is that of capturing mindshare as a new market entrant, by only offering one product instead of a palette of many Jul 03 09:31:08 alterego: i didn't find symbian to be that smart, btw Jul 03 09:31:42 kerio: it's extremly smart, just really slow, not as pretty as other mobile OS' and it's API is horrible imo. Jul 03 09:31:45 i am just getting used to it now - the menu-based UX is what feels old Jul 03 09:32:23 Symbian is open, but it feels closed because the APIs are such a friggin' PITA Jul 03 09:33:08 i probably have the wrong impression here - the only symbian device i actually used was my 6120c Jul 03 09:33:11 But as an OS, it's complete, proper multitasking, copy & paste, everything you'd expect from a full computer OS for phones. Jul 03 09:33:19 i found it very fast, but not *that* smart Jul 03 09:33:53 That isn't it's weakness, it's weakness is the series 60 UI sucking balls and the API Jul 03 09:33:53 alterego: what would you be looking at if you were leaving symbian work? Jul 03 09:34:27 leaving? Jul 03 09:34:52 yeah say you couldn't develop for symbian anymore Jul 03 09:35:08 MeeGo, obviously :) Jul 03 09:35:20 Nokia Qt SDK changes everything of course. Jul 03 09:35:33 Symbian no longer has to be a PITA to code for. Jul 03 09:35:56 And you've got write once. Jul 03 09:36:10 yes Jul 03 09:36:11 well, let's say one and a half Jul 03 09:36:23 because there *are* differences between different devices you have to account for Jul 03 09:36:55 kerio: quoting the Man, "non-issue" just don't codee it that way :P Jul 03 09:37:02 .27 Jul 03 09:37:07 whoops Jul 03 09:37:33 even with proper coding, i still say 1.1 times as a best case scenario Jul 03 09:37:42 Seriously though, Qt are doing a great job wrapping up their mobility APIs for geolocation etc. Jul 03 09:38:28 Symbians biggest issue ahead of it is the UI. They need to completely rewrite it. Jul 03 09:38:59 even with the best UI in the world, i'm not moving away from maemo Jul 03 09:40:27 Scrap Series 60 and do something new. Though, tbh, that's a mamoth task, which will break everything. Also, Symbian is supposed to replace S40 which requires no graphical acceleration. Jul 03 09:40:46 Anyhow, I just thought I'd microblog :) Jul 03 09:41:18 I'm pretty annoyed at the MeeGo UI, if there's one thing I love about maemo, it's the status area .. Jul 03 09:42:03 alterego: let's hope that that remains an option at least Jul 03 09:42:05 I look at it and I get that feeling of power coming from the device. I look at the MeeGo UX and I think, why has Android and iPhones got this really ugly useless thin crappy bar at the top? Jul 03 09:42:26 alterego: worst case, you just replace the mobile UX with the tablet UX, which is just pure awesomeness Jul 03 09:42:36 :) Jul 03 09:42:59 Venemo: and no status area :P We should work on a maemo.org MeeGo molbile UX .... Jul 03 09:43:26 Port what we have to Qt, and make the improvements we desire. Jul 03 09:43:50 alterego: well, we haven't seen that much... honestly, I dunno whether there will be a status area or not Jul 03 09:44:28 For sure, Harmattan will be a lot more Maemo than MeeGo, and the SDK should be just around the corner. Jul 03 09:44:45 So we'll no soon enough. Jul 03 09:44:59 ~know Jul 03 09:45:00 hmm... know is Any fool can know, the point is to understand. - Albert Einstein Jul 03 09:45:34 Heh Jul 03 09:45:39 alterego: we don't even know what MeeGo's desktop will be like Jul 03 09:45:51 Meh Jul 03 09:46:02 alterego: will there be shortcuts/widgets/contacts like in Maemo? Or multiple desktops? Jul 03 09:46:32 alterego: noone knows, and those who do, don't tell Jul 03 09:46:44 I might start my own company, MeeGo customizations for large corporations. I could build locked down images for employees or something Jul 03 09:47:09 alterego: another worst case scenario: let's port Hildon to MeeGo :) Jul 03 09:47:20 Or maybe apply to work for some Operator. Work on UI customisation of MeeGo for them. Jul 03 09:47:24 Heh Jul 03 09:47:32 Hildon should be destroyed :P Jul 03 09:47:37 Well, some of it. Jul 03 09:48:17 alterego: I will miss it... I just don't think we will get all the features we like in Hildon Jul 03 09:48:40 morning Jul 03 09:48:46 Guten morgan Jul 03 09:48:54 wie geht's? Jul 03 09:49:25 anyone here used PythonQT before? Jul 03 09:49:27 Gute danke, und du? Jul 03 09:49:47 lardman: I use PySide, if that applicable ... Jul 03 09:50:11 hmm, probably not Jul 03 09:50:26 I want to be able to use python as a scripting language within a C++/Qt app Jul 03 09:50:38 Okay, anyhow, I need to shower. Jul 03 09:50:46 cheers anyway Jul 03 09:50:49 lardman: pretty possible Jul 03 09:51:12 And yes, you should be able to move QObjects between environments relatively easily. Jul 03 09:51:25 You should probably look more into QtScript though :P Jul 03 09:51:37 that's Javascript-style stuff isn't it? Jul 03 09:51:43 bbiab Jul 03 09:51:46 k Jul 03 09:51:49 Yeah, ECMA Jul 03 09:52:22 I'd prefer Python, as it has lots of stuff already written that can be pulled in - will explain when you get back (assuming I'm not in the shower by that point!) Jul 03 09:53:56 scripting language within an app? I dont think python is a good choice. consider QtScript or LUA ... Jul 03 09:54:10 python envs are a pain to use, from a plugin point of view Jul 03 09:54:10 python is great! Jul 03 09:54:15 I want people to be able to write plugins for mBarcode using Python Jul 03 09:54:29 you are ready for a world of pain, I hope Jul 03 09:54:29 why Python? Jul 03 09:54:45 well Python has lots of pre-written libs/packages available Jul 03 09:54:51 we do that with Glom, and everytime python upgrades everything breaks Jul 03 09:55:15 effectively the only link will be for the C++ plugin manager to pass the barcode data + a window onto which to draw to the Python plugin, then it can do what it wants Jul 03 09:55:29 mikhas: yeah, I was worried about that Jul 03 09:56:20 every user has a different python env, and getting the *correct* python path, package sites etc (consider multiple python installations on the same box) is all borken and non-standardized Jul 03 09:56:47 well, maemo is pretty "standard" from that point of view Jul 03 09:56:50 there's only one user Jul 03 09:56:51 ah, but this is only for Maemo Jul 03 10:00:28 I guess the other option is to pass data out of the app via DBus and let whomever capture and handle it Jul 03 10:00:34 but that seems more messy ;) Jul 03 10:00:40 in idea if not implementation Jul 03 10:04:33 lardman: mbarcode is seriously awesome Jul 03 10:05:21 thanks, still needs some improvements though Jul 03 10:05:27 like better working plugins Jul 03 10:05:57 and I need to get that "Open Image" button plumbed into the gst pipeline too Jul 03 10:05:59 :) Jul 03 10:06:14 ah, speaking of showers, bbiab Jul 03 10:16:42 So mBarcode is Qt/C++? Jul 03 10:17:04 I actually think a barcode dbus service is a great idea. Jul 03 10:17:56 * lbt is getting pissed off at the maemo testing process Jul 03 10:18:15 lbt: what specifically? :) Jul 03 10:18:16 yet another "blocking vote" for a minor detail in a hyperlink which is not even part of the application. Jul 03 10:18:34 lbt: what's the problem? Jul 03 10:18:34 Oh ... Jul 03 10:18:51 My Bugtracker link goes to garage generally, it doesn't link to my app page Jul 03 10:18:55 Stop getting pedants to vote for your app then :P Jul 03 10:19:06 I have no say in the matter Jul 03 10:19:20 and for both of them all their karma comes from "testing" Jul 03 10:19:28 Sure you do, get ten people to vote before anyone else has a chance :D Jul 03 10:19:43 lbt: this is a well-documented requirement Jul 03 10:19:53 lbt: although my app misses it, too (for the time being) :P Jul 03 10:20:13 And as noted in the comments, there's a commit in git to fix it Jul 03 10:20:23 but 2 blocking votes ? Jul 03 10:20:29 My bugtracker uri was my email address, then I changed it to a talk thread, version 1.0 will use bug tracker. Jul 03 10:20:59 even worse, if you open the "about" box it has a link to the correct bug location Jul 03 10:21:13 it's only the X-Bugtracker link in the control file that's wrong Jul 03 10:21:17 lbt: http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugtracker Jul 03 10:21:26 I know Jul 03 10:21:29 lbt: "Validity criteria for bugtrackers and bugtrackers links" Jul 03 10:21:36 lbt: you just have to live with it. Jul 03 10:21:53 lbt: what is your app, by the way? Jul 03 10:22:02 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/shopper/0.5.12/ Jul 03 10:22:13 lbt: I feel your pain though, extras promotion is an arduous process, but it is a necessary one imo :) Jul 03 10:22:29 Agreed - but it's too arbitrary Jul 03 10:22:40 these are not "blocking" bugs Jul 03 10:22:49 I just hate having to bump version numbers when there's a packaging problem .. Jul 03 10:23:00 lbt: just take it like an exam in school Jul 03 10:23:08 lbt: there are requirements that you must pass Jul 03 10:23:09 there are *zero* bugs raised Jul 03 10:23:48 Venemo: and we all know how useless exams are :) Jul 03 10:23:49 Venemo: I think he gets it, he's just venting :P Whkch is p.retty reasonible. Jul 03 10:23:59 lbt: agreed :) Jul 03 10:24:12 alterego: yes, I'm just trying to console him Jul 03 10:24:32 ... cheers Jul 03 10:25:42 * lbt will proably be writing the QA checking code for the next builder... Jul 03 10:25:54 I know 2 usernames that will get special attention... Jul 03 10:26:36 and those are? Jul 03 10:26:42 Hahah Jul 03 10:26:59 Now now, no need to be nasty. :P Jul 03 10:27:05 alterego: yep it's C underneath wrapped in Qt/C++ Jul 03 10:27:09 I have to say, i don't even like those kind of jokes Jul 03 10:27:18 I do Jul 03 10:27:21 I love 'em Jul 03 10:27:35 lbt: that's the reason we've not pushed mBarcode back to -testing Jul 03 10:27:39 well, please keep 'em private Jul 03 10:28:06 crashanddie: nope... my purpose in life is not to make you feel better... sorry mate. Jul 03 10:28:14 lbt: there's already enough rumours spreading like wildfire in the whole maemo ecosystem as to not feed the trolls even further by asserting things like that Jul 03 10:28:20 lardman|afk: yes... I hate it but I'm gladd I feel the pain Jul 03 10:28:39 you need to experience this kind of thing to appreciate it Jul 03 10:28:39 keeps you alive...? ;) Jul 03 10:28:40 I'd like a barcode dbus service. Jul 03 10:28:55 crashanddie: *think of the trolls" .... bwhahahaha Jul 03 10:29:03 Something that could hook into the camera pipeline so you can run both apps at the same time. Jul 03 10:29:14 lbt: yeah, because you're pretty much becoming one right there. Jul 03 10:29:16 alterego: cool, was going to add one this afternoon (also need to work out why hildon-mime calls aren't working and it's probably dbus related) Jul 03 10:29:22 crashanddie: uh huh.... Jul 03 10:30:21 bye people, I'll be afk Jul 03 10:30:38 lardman|afk: sweet, I'll be well interested when that's done :) Jul 03 10:31:53 Also, macro focus would be nice ;) Jul 03 10:32:20 lardman|afk: I'm thinking that down votes *must* have a bug# - and when that bug is closed it's removed Jul 03 10:32:56 possibly needs some bug/test-team arbitration Jul 03 10:33:27 lbt: that's a good idea, but just because the bug is fixed in vcs, doesn'tmean it's available in the version in testing. Jul 03 10:33:46 alterego: *nod* ... needs linking up Jul 03 10:33:48 That's why you need to bump version number and repromote ... Jul 03 10:34:00 Which means testing again .. Jul 03 10:34:12 alterego: we need a way for the devs to say "only bugfixes" or similar Jul 03 10:34:21 This is why, generally. I go through the testing process myself in devel before I promote. Jul 03 10:34:25 there are elements of dev responsibility Jul 03 10:35:17 lbt: that isn't guaranteed though, a bug fix may introduce another bug. and unless testers look at the code and convince themselves there's nothing wrong with it then sure, they can change the vote. Jul 03 10:35:44 Need to keep an eye on the objective though Jul 03 10:35:50 However, bugs to do with debian packaging should be not part of that. Jul 03 10:36:14 yes, there are blocking bugs Jul 03 10:36:29 the point being there should be a high hurdle Jul 03 10:36:32 lbt: being too pragmatic makes us lazy and error prone. All code modifications should be properly QA tested to ensure they're reliable. Jul 03 10:36:34 lbt: how about a system that would put the thumb down "up for testing" by someone else? Jul 03 10:36:49 but passing that means a lower hurdle for reported fixes Jul 03 10:36:56 But your issue is packaging, not code. And that pisses me off :) Jul 03 10:37:07 lbt: assuming that the thumb down had a bug# attached to it, and the bug has been marked fixed Jul 03 10:37:17 crashanddie: that's the kind of thing I mean Jul 03 10:37:24 k Jul 03 10:37:29 Packaging fixes should NOT require a new f*ing release :) Jul 03 10:37:38 lbt: that would indeed be pretty good Jul 03 10:37:55 alterego: is there no -sub-sub-sub-micro-packaging version number? Jul 03 10:38:07 alterego: version1.3-2-maemo-1928? Jul 03 10:38:10 crashanddie: probably. Jul 03 10:38:17 the problem with the micro release idea is the same one Jul 03 10:38:26 you have to trust to "no abuse" Jul 03 10:39:20 lbt: or enforce no binary changes Jul 03 10:39:34 scripts? typos? Jul 03 10:39:43 are those packaging issues? Jul 03 10:39:48 postinst? Jul 03 10:39:57 I don't really see those as packaging issues Jul 03 10:40:08 packaging issues? where? Jul 03 10:40:19 bbl Jul 03 10:40:59 lbt: they are problems that can happen to anyone, and we need QA to ensure that indeed the correct file will be placed at the correct place. Dev machines often have so many files in so many different directories that a lone forgotten hardcoded path will not bork the application on the dev machine, but will die instantly on a QA machine Jul 03 10:41:14 lbt: as such, these are things that need to be QA'd properly as much as the next thing. Jul 03 10:41:31 yes. I used to keep a "clean" verision of Diablo to test install into Jul 03 10:41:38 but it's hard Jul 03 10:41:46 MeeGo may make that easier Jul 03 10:42:30 morning \o Jul 03 10:42:45 * lbt ignores lcuk pointedly Jul 03 10:43:16 morning! Jul 03 10:43:41 * lcuk wont share bacon butties with you then :p Jul 03 10:43:46 Jul 03 10:44:16 you'd think you could count on your mates to test your app for you ;) Jul 03 10:44:33 well wheres the test url Jul 03 10:45:07 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/shopper/0.5.12/ Jul 03 10:45:09 :) Jul 03 10:45:34 * lbt has been ranting about the QA process Jul 03 10:46:16 lcuk: can I have one? Jul 03 10:46:30 lbt: it's a bit sucky, yes Jul 03 10:47:09 we have this cool BOSS system for MeeGo which I hope will make refining the process easier Jul 03 10:47:12 * lcuk has been sleeping Jul 03 10:47:22 that's allowed in this heat Jul 03 10:47:30 testing should still be something done on the machine itself Jul 03 10:47:44 ? it is Jul 03 10:47:46 ah Jul 03 10:47:51 BOSS isn't a testing system Jul 03 10:47:58 it's a workflow system Jul 03 10:48:12 so it means you can add steps into it in a really easy way Jul 03 10:48:36 the voting/rating aspect at least Jul 03 10:48:49 btw, cant get stroke gestures to totally work Jul 03 10:49:09 why? Jul 03 10:49:25 I've heard others say that ... on mine they're almost perfect Jul 03 10:49:39 I don't know if it's technique Jul 03 10:50:24 because when shopping you strike something out, it doesnt just adjust tick at left hand side - it crosses the line out - strikethrough font attribute perhaps :P Jul 03 10:50:59 ? Jul 03 10:51:11 it changes the font but not the tickbox? Jul 03 10:51:57 if you start a left->right stroke over the tickbox it does not tick the iten Jul 03 10:52:04 ah... yes Jul 03 10:52:24 well, that's a design decision Jul 03 10:52:37 tick boxes are for clicking Jul 03 10:52:41 not stroking Jul 03 10:52:54 and if you end a left <- right stroke too far (stroke off the edge of screen) it doesnt untick Jul 03 10:56:53 lbt eep in portrait mode for the list - if you click the combo box to select option group (everything/dairy/frozen/veg/shoes etc (tracy will love you!) and select its not in portrait anymore Jul 03 10:57:33 lcuk: that's Qt Jul 03 10:57:51 it's intermittent though Jul 03 10:58:16 lol im shaking device like its got stuck :D Jul 03 10:59:30 lbt - perhaps you could add option in prefs for rotation - landscape/portrait/auto like other apps ? Jul 03 11:00:09 I had that - but I thought 'auto' was the style guide Jul 03 11:00:11 imo there should be something like what the iPhone has Jul 03 11:00:28 yeah, in portrait mode it's a simpler UI Jul 03 11:00:29 auto unless otherwise stated using "orientation lock" Jul 03 11:00:43 controlled in the app switcher Jul 03 11:00:46 MohammadAG51: and is that a per-app thing or a device thing Jul 03 11:00:48 yes Jul 03 11:00:54 device thing Jul 03 11:01:19 make mce stop polling the accelerometer so the app doesn't detect portrait/landscape mode Jul 03 11:01:21 I'm trying not to "add options".... just "do the right thing" Jul 03 11:01:28 hmm Jul 03 11:01:38 i saw qwerty12 post something on that Jul 03 11:01:49 maybe it can be made into a status menu applet Jul 03 11:02:30 lbt - i have voted since the points raised are not issues with your app :) its borne in qt so very hard to break Jul 03 11:02:46 and does mention tracy explicitly Jul 03 11:02:53 :D Jul 03 11:03:00 heh :) Jul 03 11:03:13 she can install it on hers Jul 03 11:03:32 lbt - why the specific reference to xrandr? Jul 03 11:03:45 it did rotation on the 810 Jul 03 11:04:17 it had an explicit rotate button Jul 03 11:04:23 and i know you have meat aisle - but why list HAM as dependency Jul 03 11:04:27 ahhhhhahhhhhahhhhhhhhhhh Jul 03 11:04:28 and it also had a "left handed" mode Jul 03 11:04:35 oooh Jul 03 11:04:44 sadly the N900 is handist Jul 03 11:04:57 does left handed mode effect the number of bars shown on n900? Jul 03 11:05:13 it cetainly saw that problem coming! Jul 03 11:05:23 hah Jul 03 11:05:34 btw, i want a portrait stand! Jul 03 11:05:44 ive got one of Fakes' laser cut one Jul 03 11:05:48 * lbt still wants a stand that works Jul 03 11:05:49 but i want a portrait version Jul 03 11:07:18 morning crashanddie, yes ill make you a bacon buttie Jul 03 11:07:26 * lcuk had bacon last night for first time in ages Jul 03 11:08:59 thank you lcuk Jul 03 11:09:08 chem|st: you a mod in general? Jul 03 11:12:15 i need a bacon sofa Jul 03 11:13:20 pupnik_, that would be a false economy - you would have nowhere to sit afte ra while Jul 03 11:13:26 much better to sit on live pigs Jul 03 11:13:30 they would keep you warm Jul 03 11:14:18 hmm Jul 03 11:14:33 genetically engineered animal furniture Jul 03 11:15:19 'for the man who has everything' Jul 03 11:15:34 and if you train them right, you could get them to walk you to your office etc Jul 03 11:16:42 plus when the pillows got too soft you could fry them on the grill Jul 03 11:16:55 pupnik_, chairdogs? Jul 03 11:17:13 it's already been invented, but never produced Jul 03 11:17:23 :) Jul 03 11:17:43 remember you have to feed them every so often Jul 03 11:19:15 oh and trim the hair Jul 03 11:23:44 imitation leather with a chemically intert matrix supporting, say, plant cells building a soft hair folicle. by changing the seed cells and nutrient mix you could get different 'furs' for your sofa. Jul 03 11:24:23 would at least be a nice touch for a sci-fi setting Jul 03 11:25:24 lcuk: I think we used to use horses Jul 03 11:25:42 lcuk: they give milk, go fast, and you can even eat them Jul 03 11:27:05 that's why you see em in 'Firefly' Jul 03 11:27:55 who in this channel has ever owned a horse? Jul 03 11:28:01 * crashanddie raises hand Jul 03 11:28:42 i've sprayed a couple with a garden hose but they didn't like it Jul 03 11:28:45 I've eaten them Jul 03 11:29:24 Ikarus: om nom nom Jul 03 11:29:26 pupnik_, would take a while to regrow new surface Jul 03 11:29:37 and the days after you would get stubble burn Jul 03 11:30:31 why is OMWeather getting updated every other day? Jul 03 11:31:01 lcuk: trying to imagine what the simplest, first 'biological fabrics' might look like Jul 03 11:31:25 isnt cotton a biological fabric? Jul 03 11:31:29 not alive Jul 03 11:31:30 or fur Jul 03 11:31:32 or leather Jul 03 11:31:43 cotton is very much alive Jul 03 11:31:48 sorry, the name was a poor choice Jul 03 11:31:50 it's just vegetal Jul 03 11:31:51 ohh actual adaptable real organics Jul 03 11:32:18 get worker ants Jul 03 11:32:21 trying to sep up n810 as low-power file-server. Anyone knows microUSB-RJ45 conversion adapter? Jul 03 11:32:22 to build a mesh Jul 03 11:32:45 heoa: use your computer as a bridge, Jul 03 11:32:46 ? Jul 03 11:32:51 heoa, hmmm when i did usb host stuff on 810 - i just used my nokia adapter and a female-female dongle Jul 03 11:33:03 to give me a regular usb port to plug stuff into Jul 03 11:33:18 loufoque_: not possible, the comp uses too much watts ---> trying to get low-power Jul 03 11:33:20 same principle is being looked at to work also on n900 :D Jul 03 11:33:21 heoa: wifi? Jul 03 11:33:36 kerio, wifi file servers arent as fast Jul 03 11:33:50 usb == faster than wifi Jul 03 11:33:52 good point Jul 03 11:34:22 heoa: http://www.plugcomputer.org/ Jul 03 11:34:26 but if your machines being served are on wifi it would work Jul 03 11:34:58 http://www.gsm-technology.com/index.php/en_US,details,id_pr,7216,menu_mode,categories.html heh Jul 03 11:35:04 microusb-rj45 Jul 03 11:35:32 lololol http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/video-technology-confirms-england-are-very-bad-at-football-201006282855/ Jul 03 11:35:54 pupnik_: is there a way to get that working on the n900? Jul 03 11:36:16 possibly with power-over-ethernet Jul 03 11:36:39 crash me is S-Mod Jul 03 11:36:53 i suspect only with usb chipsets that support acting like ethernet endpoints Jul 03 11:36:57 :( Jul 03 11:37:05 http://www.google.com/search?q=USB-RJ45+adapter Jul 03 11:37:09 nokia should've added that Jul 03 11:37:22 also usb on the go Jul 03 11:37:25 :( Jul 03 11:37:30 http://www.amazon.com/AGILER-RJ45-ADAPTER-NETWORK-COMPUTER/dp/B000BL3M3U Jul 03 11:37:32 DAMN YOU NOKIA! Jul 03 11:38:05 kerio, relax a bit Jul 03 11:38:20 lcuk: this doesn't make any sense at all. Jul 03 11:40:06 loufoque_, what doesnt Jul 03 11:40:12 everything i say makes sense Jul 03 11:40:16 apart from the bits which dont Jul 03 11:40:22 lcuk: the lack of usb-on-the-go *is* disappointing :( Jul 03 11:40:22 i don't see why that device from amazon.com couldn't work with a n800/n810 Jul 03 11:40:28 lcuk: any thoughts? Jul 03 11:40:49 i might prefer this arrangement for myself Jul 03 11:40:59 lcuk: the link you gave Jul 03 11:41:01 kerio, really - let me be totally honest here - usb otg on the n810 was used for what? Jul 03 11:41:01 pupnik_: is it supported by linux? Jul 03 11:41:04 yes Jul 03 11:41:10 it looks like we will have usb host mode soon Jul 03 11:41:15 lcuk: connecting pen drives Jul 03 11:41:28 does N900 do host mode, Jul 03 11:41:29 ? Jul 03 11:41:36 yes Jul 03 11:41:41 with some hacking Jul 03 11:41:43 but yes Jul 03 11:41:43 loufoque_: not yet Jul 03 11:41:54 loufoque_, there are general hacks in place and discussion ongoing about activating properly, yes Jul 03 11:41:55 only for kids who finish their plate Jul 03 11:42:29 kerio, usb host mode would do that Jul 03 11:42:33 OTG is different Jul 03 11:43:11 what's usb on-the-go? Jul 03 11:43:21 i am wanting a working host mode on n900 for arduino hacking purposes Jul 03 11:43:45 lcuk: nice that you want it Jul 03 11:43:45 lcuk: well, usb otg allows for simpler configuration at least Jul 03 11:43:49 you can't have it right now Jul 03 11:43:50 OTG is a variation on the USB spec designed for specific low powered devices to communicate and talk "on the go" Jul 03 11:44:26 Ikarus, sure, but its better to desire something achievable than to go for something thats all but ruled out Jul 03 11:45:18 mind you, an uphill climb is fun sometimes ;) Jul 03 11:45:50 especially when you get to the top and can ski-glide your way back down Jul 03 11:47:03 * lcuk kicks portrait rotated transitions Jul 03 11:47:30 damn things dont work when i use high level dynamic rotation patch Jul 03 11:47:38 lcuk: i want a status area switcher between usb host and usb... the opposite of host Jul 03 11:47:45 guest? Jul 03 11:48:59 kerio, the UI ontop of the kernel patch is tiny - the guys are still trying to sort out and mature the kernel patch at the moment Jul 03 11:49:06 kerio: peripherial Jul 03 11:49:10 kerio: and i want a blowjob Jul 03 11:49:14 thanks jacekowski Jul 03 11:49:21 not for the bj comment Jul 03 11:49:26 you wont get one of those here Jul 03 11:49:59 i was thinking that we were saying our wishes Jul 03 11:50:00 jacekowski: craigslist.org Jul 03 11:51:24 perhaps we need a pelvic thrust alarm app for n900 Jul 03 11:51:35 "ALERT ALERT USER IS FAPPING" Jul 03 11:51:42 lcuk: let's do the time warp again Jul 03 11:53:07 hmm, one could track employees not being at certain stations nicely with a n900 Jul 03 11:53:26 pupnik_, gps doesnt work nicely indoors Jul 03 11:53:30 never has, never will Jul 03 11:53:38 always does here Jul 03 11:53:41 otherwise i would agree Jul 03 11:53:43 oh true enough Jul 03 11:54:00 MohammadAG51, you are barely indoors to the sorts of levels lots of employees are Jul 03 11:54:08 big multistorey buildings etc Jul 03 11:54:11 MohammadAG51: what's your job? Jul 03 11:54:20 "layabout" Jul 03 11:54:31 lol Jul 03 11:54:55 MohammadAG51, some people dont have real windows to look out of Jul 03 11:55:14 * lcuk misses the window he used to look out of at old job :) i hope when i get in next office i have a view Jul 03 11:55:23 lcuk, you said indoors, you didn't specift what type of building Jul 03 11:55:36 true Jul 03 11:55:40 ok, it works sometimes Jul 03 11:55:44 :P Jul 03 11:55:48 but not reproducably Jul 03 11:55:53 kerio, am I allowed to work? Jul 03 11:55:56 * ptl does not have any real windows on the building where he works Jul 03 11:56:06 MohammadAG51: dunno Jul 03 11:56:08 i don't work Jul 03 11:56:21 * ptl works at late night, from 0:00 to 08:00... And this is good in one point of view Jul 03 11:56:30 * ptl never knows if it's night or day there Jul 03 11:56:38 synaptics compiled with no problems, weird... Jul 03 11:56:47 some basement dwellers also never see sunlight Jul 03 11:57:20 Does Droid X's lack of physical keyboard means the Death of physical keyboard on all mobiles? Jul 03 11:57:27 *mean Jul 03 11:57:33 pupnik_, i will have my network running a daemon soon enough Jul 03 11:57:52 so when i walk in wifi zone it will sync everything Jul 03 11:58:03 ptl, if Droid\ X = all\ mobiles; echo yes Jul 03 11:58:08 else; echo no Jul 03 11:58:18 ptl, portrait maemo even has trouble using keyboard Jul 03 11:58:28 MohammadAG51: it's just because its predecessor, Motorola Droid, had on the finest keyboards of all mobiles... Jul 03 11:58:29 except as a 6 bar chord Jul 03 11:58:35 MohammadAG51: that must mean something Jul 03 11:59:06 lcuk: I was thinking about landscape mode physical keyboards... Jul 03 11:59:08 up page, down page, autoscroll on/off, change book Jul 03 11:59:11 lcuk: what do you mean by 'daemon'? Jul 03 11:59:25 ptl: the motorola droid/milestone had one of the most horrible keywords i've ever seen/tried Jul 03 11:59:27 well are devices going to have multiple keyboards Jul 03 11:59:34 damn thing is completly flat Jul 03 11:59:42 ptl, finest? keyboard? Jul 03 11:59:45 arachnist: you think? I found it very comfortable and agile. Jul 03 11:59:54 ptl i use my n900 portrait keyboard in an odd orientation Jul 03 11:59:58 ptl: my fingers slipped in it Jul 03 12:00:05 when bookreading theres 4/6 buttons down the left hand side Jul 03 12:00:07 ok ok ok, so it's not unanimous :P Jul 03 12:00:09 s/in/on/ Jul 03 12:00:09 arachnist meant: ptl: my fongers slipped in it Jul 03 12:00:12 with nice knighrider lights Jul 03 12:00:20 infobot: you got it wrong Jul 03 12:00:22 * lcuk nods @ MohammadAG51 Jul 03 12:00:51 i want to stick an overlay over the keyboard actually Jul 03 12:01:03 like old skool Function key overlays DOS apps had :D Jul 03 12:01:08 Well, at least the N900's keyboard you guys consider OK? Jul 03 12:01:18 but stick over the physical keyboard to allow bookreader real buttons :D Jul 03 12:01:18 Which physical keyboard would be the best one of the mobiles? Jul 03 12:01:28 the N97's keyboard was better tbh Jul 03 12:01:29 ptl: it could be improved, but it's fine Jul 03 12:01:35 ptl surprisingly i liked the n810 keys Jul 03 12:01:40 Hey Jul 03 12:01:51 but i type faster on the N900's keyboard Jul 03 12:01:52 lcuk: hehehe Jul 03 12:01:52 MohammadAG51: I don't like the n97 key field, but the size and space was better Jul 03 12:01:59 http://www.industrialethernet.com/net232-dte.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=IO+net232&utm_term=rs232+to+rj45&gclid=CM_Wrrqhz6ICFc2S3wodbiMjzA http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=393 <<--- with them n810 to low-power file-server? Jul 03 12:02:00 lcuk: the keyboard is replacable on the N900 with some effort Jul 03 12:02:07 I type quite fast on the N900 keyboard also Jul 03 12:02:08 Finally someone talkin' about some good things about the N810! Jul 03 12:02:09 lcuk: also, you can split the spacebar in two Jul 03 12:02:11 lol Ikarus i wouldnt like the effort Jul 03 12:02:16 just a clip on would suffice Jul 03 12:02:29 yeah, the space bar is two buttons Jul 03 12:02:32 for some reason Jul 03 12:02:33 Ikarus, we have control of the 6 LEDs under the keys Jul 03 12:02:37 lcuk: that's what she said ;) Jul 03 12:02:53 and grouped together with a cluster of keys nearest each light is a cool way to get input Jul 03 12:03:04 so you dont aim for a single key but an area Jul 03 12:03:38 so the space key is actually two keys? Jul 03 12:03:42 Motorola backflip also has a nice keyboard Jul 03 12:03:43 can you get the two separately? Jul 03 12:03:51 the keys are quite large Jul 03 12:03:53 dunno kerio will test Jul 03 12:03:58 yes kerio Jul 03 12:04:02 but Ikarus says so Jul 03 12:04:16 kerio, press in the middle part of the spacebar Jul 03 12:04:21 you'll hear two clicks Jul 03 12:04:28 that's the easiest test Jul 03 12:04:30 yeah but can you get the two keys separately? Jul 03 12:04:37 because i'd like an extra key Jul 03 12:04:49 * lcuk gives kerio a key Jul 03 12:04:51 oh, I think they send the same button Jul 03 12:05:03 i think it was for my bike lock when i was younger Jul 03 12:05:41 lol Jul 03 12:07:42 what's a good non-destructive (open-source) mp3 editor? Jul 03 12:07:58 /usr/local/sbin/synaptic: error while loading shared libraries: libapt-inst-libc6.5-6.so.1.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Jul 03 12:08:00 argh Jul 03 12:08:51 pupnik_, regarding daemon question, running liqbasey stuff on my master machine and connecting to other instances when they are on the same wifi hotspot Jul 03 12:08:54 pupnik_: you can't edit mp3, you can move/cut frames, but you have to convert to basicallt wav to edit it Jul 03 12:09:14 oh neat Jul 03 12:09:14 pupnik_: audacity Jul 03 12:09:33 it can edit mp3s without re-encoding? Jul 03 12:09:41 don't think so Jul 03 12:09:44 pupnik_: nothing can Jul 03 12:10:09 wrong Jul 03 12:10:21 mp3directcut for e.g. Jul 03 12:10:42 in scratchbox, where i can select the target(ARMEL): Jul 03 12:11:15 pupnik_: oh for fuck sake, did you read what I just wrote? Jul 03 12:11:42 asj_, it used to be said that jpeg could not be edited losslessly Jul 03 12:11:42 for me: Jul 03 12:11:45 you can cut it, you can probably join them, but you can't edit them without recompression Jul 03 12:12:00 but then people realised you could rotate the macroblocks and actually losslessly rotate images Jul 03 12:12:52 in some ways linux is dazzingly out-of-date Jul 03 12:12:53 lcuk: or you can just set the rotation in the metadata. Same with mp3 effectively, you can cut frames, set audio gain levels in the id3 Jul 03 12:13:29 ok asj_ so thats lossless editing - do any apps do it? Jul 03 12:13:31 asj, as a favor, i did re-read it, and it hasn't gotten any righter. :) Jul 03 12:13:35 lcuk: I don't really consider playing with metadata to be editing though Jul 03 12:13:36 (since you just said it wasnt possible :P) Jul 03 12:13:46 http://mpesch3.de1.cc/mp3dc.html Jul 03 12:14:04 pupnik_: yeah... Jul 03 12:14:08 Non-destructive cut, copy, paste Jul 03 12:14:12 that's what we've been selling Jul 03 12:14:14 er Jul 03 12:14:15 saying Jul 03 12:14:19 * kerio is tired Jul 03 12:14:20 Volume change, fade, normalize, pause detection Jul 03 12:14:27 don't abuse 'we' Jul 03 12:14:29 not lossless Jul 03 12:14:31 fade would be destructive Jul 03 12:14:36 wrong Jul 03 12:14:43 You can directly cut, copy, paste or change the volume with no need to decompress your files for audio editing. Jul 03 12:14:55 fading requires reencoding Jul 03 12:14:57 pupnik_: if you already know everything why ask? :) Jul 03 12:14:59 global volume of varying along the track? Jul 03 12:15:06 asj_, conversation Jul 03 12:15:16 you can globally adjust volume of a frame without time_domain->frequency_domain->time_domain Jul 03 12:15:20 and finding alternatives Jul 03 12:15:36 er other way round Jul 03 12:15:37 hmm Jul 03 12:15:41 synaptics runs Jul 03 12:15:43 freq-time-freq Jul 03 12:15:45 anyways, you can do all this in linux Jul 03 12:15:47 that's not editing the audio btw Jul 03 12:15:51 should i package it properly and push to -devel? Jul 03 12:16:02 there's audacity to N900 Jul 03 12:16:19 how do you install a package manager application without a package manager :P Jul 03 12:16:21 *for the Jul 03 12:16:40 lcuk: untar it then dpkg -i it? Jul 03 12:16:48 shhh :p Jul 03 12:16:53 for content creators: if you record a lot of audio for any purpose, you're going to want to be able to edit that quickly and sanely - not transcoding to wav and writing to giant files Jul 03 12:17:01 * lcuk ponders such silly things - itsl ike self compiling compilers Jul 03 12:17:03 how do you install a package manager application without a package manager :P Jul 03 12:17:04 there's a tool call mp3cut that's Xaw based to cut and I think paste mp3 frames, it's ancient, almost pointless and not maintained, and of couse there's a pick of command line toold for gain Jul 03 12:17:05 apt-get Jul 03 12:17:08 :) Jul 03 12:17:26 apt-get is a package manager Jul 03 12:17:29 but when apt-get was being written (and dpkg it uses).. Jul 03 12:18:04 hmm forgot about that one asj_ ty Jul 03 12:18:04 ./configure && make && sudo make install Jul 03 12:18:06 pupnik_: as a content creator, and someone who's been doing huge audio weekly for years 1gig isn't bit anymore, and you want find grained control like audacity since you're probably multitracking it anyways Jul 03 12:19:22 lcuk, see how debootstrap works :) Jul 03 12:19:44 yay Jul 03 12:19:52 synaptics works great Jul 03 12:20:09 cool Jul 03 12:20:13 aptitude segfaulted Jul 03 12:20:33 guess i'll have to dump aptitude and 'work' on synaptics Jul 03 12:21:07 I would really like a good id3v2 editor for n900, the existing one is good for artwork, sucky for tags, I command someone! fix it! ;) Jul 03 12:21:31 mussorgsky's good imo Jul 03 12:21:52 MohammadAG51: it's missing tags Jul 03 12:22:01 * lcuk puts his arms out wide, calls out to the god of linux to come swooping down and kick asj_'s ass for assuming they are his personal army Jul 03 12:22:17 lcuk: what else are they? ;) Jul 03 12:22:24 start building it and speccing it out and others will join Jul 03 12:22:59 lcuk: i wish that worked for the less glamouress ideas Jul 03 12:23:21 it works for any idea if you are determined enough Jul 03 12:23:38 MohammadAG51: for example it can't change genra Jul 03 12:24:20 today, i am mostly fixing up issues in liqbase whilst writing a spec for something Jul 03 12:24:25 * lcuk will be >>> #liqbase Jul 03 12:24:59 but mossorgky's ui and ideas are great, I love how when you select a field it shows you all fields that already exist Jul 03 12:25:13 anyways, bed time Jul 03 12:33:14 i wish i had an 'energy pedometer' for all the subunits in my device Jul 03 12:33:26 so i could track how much i use over time in terms of backlight vs cpu, etc Jul 03 12:33:57 give me a team of college interns :P Jul 03 12:34:38 pupnik_, needs to know the energy consumption estimate for each component - SpeedEvil is working on such a thing - then based on reading the levels of each can guestimate how much the rest is doing Jul 03 12:36:03 pupnik_: you know about the bq thing? Jul 03 12:36:48 http://www.mauve.plus.com/bat.tar.gz - originally a script from ShadowJK - to show battery state Jul 03 12:36:57 every 5s with -r Jul 03 12:37:00 yeah ain't it great Jul 03 12:37:21 now a little pedometer with history Jul 03 12:37:41 and status reports for community/nokia (time of day, agv use of diff components) Jul 03 12:37:51 yeah Jul 03 12:37:55 that part is hard Jul 03 12:38:05 I'm working on it - but life is getting in the way. Jul 03 12:38:08 hmm SpeedEvil ? Jul 03 12:38:10 why hard Jul 03 12:38:21 average use of diff components Jul 03 12:38:38 Last second, the average current was 340mA - say. Jul 03 12:38:44 ahh yeah from that side - i thought you meant the uploading side Jul 03 12:38:46 The backlight was on - that's trivial. Jul 03 12:39:08 how do you allocate the remaining 100% of CPU to processes - that's again fairly easy Jul 03 12:39:09 it's always last 5.12 seconds too Jul 03 12:39:11 by CPU time Jul 03 12:39:24 ShadowJK: I'm unsure it's a simple unfiltered sample Jul 03 12:39:29 well i imagine it would be in our and nokias interests to collect some voluntary usage data Jul 03 12:39:33 SpeedEvil, if it was liqbase Jul 03 12:39:42 hi, folks. i just tried to update my n900 and i got this http://sprunge.us/RALf -- account-plugin-salut is giving errors Jul 03 12:39:46 mostly i could tell based on what i was drawing in those timeslices Jul 03 12:39:50 maybe issue each reporter a key, to help filter out spam/trash Jul 03 12:40:05 pupnik_: Then - how do you allocate the remaining power against processes? Jul 03 12:40:25 pupnik_: For example - you may have to look at per-process net access - which there is no record of. Jul 03 12:40:34 SpeedEvil, last 5 seconds were spent rendering 34 frames of bookreader Jul 03 12:40:37 pupnik_: Or you might want to track who activated the GPS Jul 03 12:40:39 Or ... Jul 03 12:40:40 there's no point generating artificial numbers really. if something is aggregated in the remainder, just give a help screen showing what it includes Jul 03 12:40:48 oh i see Jul 03 12:40:49 I don't think I've ever seen more than about 350mA use with screen at middle setting and CPU use at 100%.. Jul 03 12:40:56 The ideal is powertop. Jul 03 12:41:03 But sorted by actual power usage. Jul 03 12:41:10 wakeups is at best a poor metric. Jul 03 12:41:26 Nah, it's excellent for figuring out power use during idle Jul 03 12:41:32 (the intel powertop) Jul 03 12:41:41 Not useful at all for measuring non-standby use Jul 03 12:41:44 It's really not. Jul 03 12:41:46 yeah Jul 03 12:42:05 for anything but absolutely idle, it's not much use Jul 03 12:42:35 The power usage of something that wakes every second can vary dramatically, for reasons I've not nailed down Jul 03 12:42:38 so users might want useful estimates of more detailed per-process power use, numbers which may or may not be useful to developers. Jul 03 12:42:45 how well do desktop widgets currently track usage Jul 03 12:42:51 lcuk: not at all. Jul 03 12:42:59 They're all lumped in with hildon-desktop Jul 03 12:43:01 or rather, their visible state - if i have an rss widget thats on a different desktop Jul 03 12:43:03 which sucks Jul 03 12:43:06 oh Jul 03 12:43:06 does it refresh its contents Jul 03 12:43:07 nvm Jul 03 12:43:15 I was meaning wrt powertop Jul 03 12:43:25 even if x11 then does not show the results Jul 03 12:43:34 you could hook into x11 to see whats changing its ui Jul 03 12:43:49 would not be perfect Jul 03 12:43:57 but would give indication of whats working Jul 03 12:44:11 Generally the more you hook into, the more your power use Jul 03 12:44:31 lol Jul 03 12:44:34 agreed Jul 03 12:44:42 use batgraph to discharge battery Jul 03 12:44:49 but this is for monitoring Jul 03 12:45:20 lcuk: On the other side - it can be hard to disentangle the usage from monitoring from real. Jul 03 12:45:24 schrodingers box app Jul 03 12:45:39 heh Jul 03 12:45:41 lcuk: In many ways - when the backlight or wifi or ... is active. Jul 03 12:45:46 you cannot tell how much battery it will use until you open the app Jul 03 12:45:54 hehe Jul 03 12:45:56 You - almost - don't care about what else the app does. Jul 03 12:45:58 and when you open it, the battery will be alive or dead Jul 03 12:46:10 mostly dead Jul 03 12:46:22 after you opened it Jul 03 12:46:32 maybe was alive before you did Jul 03 12:46:37 oh owwwww jesus i just cvrushed one of my knackers Jul 03 12:46:57 * SpeedEvil passes lcuk a couple of bricks. Jul 03 12:47:38 chem|st: cool. Then go moderator general, it's chaos in there Jul 03 12:48:34 sticky modifiers are weird Jul 03 12:48:59 shift+è is mapped to the dead accent Jul 03 12:49:18 yet, if i type shift and then è, i get È Jul 03 12:49:42 what are you discussing now? Jul 03 12:49:46 Hola! Jul 03 12:49:48 power consumption by specific apps? Jul 03 12:50:44 the whole sticky keys part is completely borked Jul 03 12:50:53 * crashanddie is tempted to ask for mod status again Jul 03 12:51:15 though, being able to shout at people without thinking about the other mod's reputation is good, too. Jul 03 12:51:36 Maybe we should just need an admin account for moderation... Jul 03 12:51:38 pay lot of cash to somebody Jul 03 12:51:40 What should I do to be able to build packages straight on my N900? Already installed build-essential -package, but dpkg-buildpackage gives me errors pointing to rules-file? Jul 03 12:51:42 and you might get ir Jul 03 12:51:53 it* Jul 03 12:52:05 Same package builds nicely on scratchbox Jul 03 12:52:08 jacekowski: nha, getting mod status isn't a problem I believe Jul 03 12:52:18 D-Iivil, its a shame dpkg-buildpackage doesnt totally work Jul 03 12:52:29 crashanddie: i was thinking the same about my visa Jul 03 12:52:30 i think mostly its gnutools that require it Jul 03 12:52:35 i once walked through the process Jul 03 12:52:40 D-Iivil: it's an issue on the device, compilation works fine, but package building is pretty hardcore Jul 03 12:52:44 a maemo specific dpkg-buildpagage would be AWESOME Jul 03 12:52:46 crashanddie: and you see how it worked ou Jul 03 12:52:48 out* Jul 03 12:52:56 jacekowski: true Jul 03 12:52:57 Aah.. okay then :/ Jul 03 12:52:59 crashanddie: thanks for the hint... Captain Obvious Jul 03 12:53:10 D-Iivil, hold on though ive got some links Jul 03 12:53:10 chem|st: anytime :P Jul 03 12:53:21 http://madabar.com/techblog/2007/08/12/how-to-create-a-deb-package-for-maemo-without-scratchbox/ Jul 03 12:53:40 sometimes I think the others just delete spam... Jul 03 12:53:44 damn whos been nicking my bookmarks Jul 03 12:53:48 i had a bunch of them together Jul 03 12:53:54 khertan has pypackager Jul 03 12:54:02 which does same but packing up only small simple python apps Jul 03 12:54:43 i think it would be feasible to do Jul 03 12:54:46 crashanddie: you should go for it, I honestly did not understand why you quit in the first place Jul 03 12:54:52 just takes going through dpkg and altering its scripts Jul 03 12:54:56 chem|st: because of geneven Jul 03 12:54:58 to use either maemo specifics or gnu tools Jul 03 12:55:01 in new locations Jul 03 12:55:12 crashanddie: thats a person and not a reason Jul 03 12:55:24 haha Jul 03 12:55:59 chem|st: some people quit being german because of hitler Jul 03 12:56:03 it's a simple rule! If it gets personal ask someone else to take over if they don't by themself Jul 03 12:56:11 Macer: godwin's law Jul 03 12:56:21 Macer: godwin's! Jul 03 12:56:49 doh you've been faster Jul 03 12:56:58 that's what she said Jul 03 12:57:03 no wait, that's not a good thing. Jul 03 12:57:05 lol Jul 03 12:57:10 :) Jul 03 12:57:38 how is n900 meego going? Jul 03 12:57:39 Macer: what did you want to tell? Jul 03 12:58:01 what did i want to tell? Jul 03 12:58:12 lcuk, thanks. Will read it later :) Actually I just want to create source packages for autobuilder on the go :P Jul 03 12:58:20 D-Iivil, indeed - me too Jul 03 12:58:25 i build on device often Jul 03 12:58:37 and being able to do so would allow development from any os Jul 03 12:58:47 with just an editor and a console on the remote end Jul 03 12:58:53 lcuk: sounds slow Jul 03 12:58:53 everything can be done with ssh :) Jul 03 12:58:58 Macer: you tried to point a saver argument but forgot about godwin, so you compare geneve with hitler? Jul 03 12:59:00 lcuk, exactly! Jul 03 12:59:04 Macer, normal developer apps are small Jul 03 12:59:17 liqflow builds from source on my n900 in less than 10 seconds Jul 03 12:59:17 Well. Gotta go now, cya later :) Jul 03 12:59:22 chem|st: you said that is a person and not a reason Jul 03 12:59:29 and if i just edit a couple of source files rebuilding is <3seconds Jul 03 12:59:29 people can be reasons :) Jul 03 12:59:53 lcuk: i tried usimg mencoder on the n900 Jul 03 13:00:04 talk about not worth it :) Jul 03 13:00:23 lol Jul 03 13:00:27 i thought it woud get better than 2fps Jul 03 13:00:29 Macer: the people didn't quit because of hitler Jul 03 13:01:04 they quit because they forgot to put towel on their house Jul 03 13:01:15 and someone else got their before them Jul 03 13:01:20 chem|st: heh. ok. well. dont really want to discuss metaphorical hitler. Jul 03 13:01:40 actually - in an all german hotel, is there a race at sunset to place towels for the next day Jul 03 13:01:45 you should be able to understand the point Jul 03 13:01:48 Macer: ;) metaphorical hitler is a reason ;) Jul 03 13:02:37 lcuk: that can be an all british, netherlandish or anything hotel... Jul 03 13:03:20 the race does depend on the people not the country they are from Jul 03 13:03:36 Macer: it does - in some cases Jul 03 13:03:46 as long as enough of them are Germans :-P Jul 03 13:03:51 mencoder that is Jul 03 13:04:00 you'll see the towel-race Jul 03 13:04:20 SpeedEvil: im sure but i was scaling down a 720p video to n900 size Jul 03 13:04:23 DocScrutinizer: ?? Jul 03 13:04:35 chem|st, german tourists are known for their towel antics, just as english tourists are known for their boozing etc Jul 03 13:04:42 it didnt go too well :) Jul 03 13:05:01 DocScrutinizer, its an amusing trait Jul 03 13:05:08 lcuk: I was in a 99% british hotel and the towel race was just the same Jul 03 13:05:34 yeah, the 1% germans would get all the seats otherwise :p Jul 03 13:05:38 stereotypes do meet for the loudest but not in general Jul 03 13:06:08 lcuk: LOL Jul 03 13:06:10 chem|st, sure Jul 03 13:06:15 lcuk: actually we have been the only german couple there and we didn't go for it... Jul 03 13:06:21 tis just a bit of light hearted banted Jul 03 13:06:23 banter Jul 03 13:06:31 ;) Jul 03 13:06:47 hahaha chem|st Jul 03 13:07:02 so what tactics did you use Jul 03 13:07:29 history class in yorkshire told me that for all bad that happened to the brits the germans are held responsible Jul 03 13:07:29 also, its more defined in hotels where beachfront loungers are in short supply Jul 03 13:07:47 I like to wait for them at the bar, and laugh at them as I'm drunk while they don't get a seat - well that's what I'd like to do Jul 03 13:07:51 tats the wrong way round Jul 03 13:08:10 lol DocScrutinizer Jul 03 13:08:46 lcuk: it's more like if the people are between 40 and 60 years old you get that race no matter where they are from Jul 03 13:09:03 chem|st, thats a reasonable assessment Jul 03 13:09:18 and the upper age bracket have weapons Jul 03 13:09:39 "you young'uns come near my lounger .o/ Jul 03 13:09:43 lcuk: an australian couple and a greek started a fight about it, got close to a real beat up Jul 03 13:09:57 o_O Jul 03 13:10:13 right >>> i have code to play with Jul 03 13:10:29 * lcuk tries to fix portrait transitions on dynamic rotation Jul 03 13:10:48 I wasn't even close (balkony) but was able to understand the whole argument like being right next to them Jul 03 13:11:15 50 on the aussie Jul 03 13:11:35 lcuk: play? got 70k lines of delphi to "play" with... Jul 03 13:11:54 yumm delphi Jul 03 13:12:13 chem|st, http://liqbase.net/20100626_005.mp4 :) Jul 03 13:12:22 playtime Jul 03 13:12:45 using n900 in portrait is strange without a keyboard Jul 03 13:12:55 hmm does n900 support h.264 encoding? Jul 03 13:13:23 just used it with handbrake but it seems my n900 connot play it Jul 03 13:13:36 hi all Jul 03 13:13:47 anyone can give me more information about this contest http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Coding_Competition_1 ? Jul 03 13:14:07 Is there a hack to make ctrl-shift-R effect persistent? Jul 03 13:14:38 Arkenoi, its not global yet so some of the system apps dont operate perfectly Jul 03 13:14:44 sejo: which container? Jul 03 13:15:02 Arkenoi, more and more is turning portrait day by day though Arkenoi Jul 03 13:15:14 -Arkenoi Jul 03 13:15:21 alas I never was too happy with kylix Jul 03 13:16:23 lcuk: that's ok, i prefer "not turning" the phone when it is not needed instead of having to press ctrl-shift-R in all application that need turning every time ;-) Jul 03 13:16:33 Arkenoi, sure Jul 03 13:16:46 what you should do however is report this to the app developers Jul 03 13:17:16 say "i am happy using your app using ctrl+shift+r and your app works well, perhaps you could tweak to rotate by default" or offer a patch to do the same Jul 03 13:18:46 chemist what? Jul 03 13:18:58 (first time I ever encoded or did something similar) Jul 03 13:19:09 I use an mkv file Jul 03 13:19:36 with H.264 encoding (trying again with mpeg-4 FFmpeg) Jul 03 13:21:06 "Eight percent of Russians believe their national team will win the World Cup, despite the fact that it never qualified for the tournament, an independent poll has showed." Jul 03 13:22:41 crashanddie: http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/03/disco-chair-is-way-cooler-than-its-name-would-lead-you-to-believ/ LOL Jul 03 13:23:39 lcuk: yes, but i want that now ;-) Jul 03 13:26:25 sejo: x264 mkv with mplayer works... Jul 03 13:26:32 sejo: with mediaplayer too Jul 03 13:27:14 sejo: can you provide a sample please?! Jul 03 13:28:57 for those in the UK that care : http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/laurie-penny/2010/07/digital-economy-act-rights#reader-comments Jul 03 13:29:05 chem: for me it did not Jul 03 13:29:53 Texrat's presentation at Akademy 2010: "User feedback framework" http://qik.com/video/8561492 Jul 03 13:30:13 thanks to cybette for the video Jul 03 13:30:17 chem|st, http://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/Futurama_6_season_%5btfile.ru%5d/Futurama.%20Season%206.%20Episode%201.mkv Jul 03 13:30:44 does not play from media player and damn ugly with mplayer Jul 03 13:32:55 Arkenoi: you know distributing copyrighted material is illegal right? Jul 03 13:34:39 crashanddie: LOL Jul 03 13:38:42 to whom it may concern: I got a cheap wallwart USB charger with A-receptacle (and a nice 2color LED to show current). I openend it and soldered a short to receptacle's D+/- pins - now it works like a charm with N900 + CA-101 cable. While without shorted D+/- it never did *any* charging at all Jul 03 13:39:02 is all legislation "law-ful"? are there any tests or standards for legislative acts whereby we can discern between 'law' and illegitimate usurpation of power? Jul 03 13:39:20 pupnik: constitution Jul 03 13:39:46 pupnik: everything HAS to comply with constitution otherwise it's illegal Jul 03 13:40:21 and you got to find a supreme court to decide on that condition :-P Jul 03 13:40:44 that's one answer. another is that we can derive which codes are compatible with survival and individual rights Jul 03 13:40:54 otherwise it's legal even if it doesn't comply Jul 03 13:41:01 in poland there is something called Constitutional Tribunal Jul 03 13:41:10 pupnik, that's why we have courts, t5o decide if hings were unlawful and illegal after the fact. That's how gov't can get away with screwing you over :) Jul 03 13:41:12 there's an interesting podcast on that here: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2009/06/epstein_on_the.html Jul 03 13:41:26 "Richard Epstein of the University of Chicago and Stanford University's Hoover Institution talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts about the rule of law." Jul 03 13:41:36 pupnik, post texrats presentation here! Jul 03 13:41:37 and they are required to check if law complies with constitution Jul 03 13:41:43 jacekowski: in France it's the "Conseil Constitutionnel", the longest word in french is even "anticonstitutionnellement" Jul 03 13:41:54 i don't have that - maybe linked in meego forum lcuk Jul 03 13:41:56 jacekowski: I'm guessing every country has that Jul 03 13:42:23 * pupnik (~puphome@p54B2A387.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #meego Jul 03 13:42:23 Texrat's presentation at Akademy 2010: "User feedback framework" http://qik.com/video/8561492 ty cybette for the video Jul 03 13:42:30 you just had it a moment ago pupnik :p Jul 03 13:42:35 For instant, some of our (UK) anti terrorism laws, which are in effect very eavily here have been deemed against basic human rights in the European couurts. It'll take ages for that to eventually make a difference, especially as the police are now so used to ttheirr extra bs privs ... :( Jul 03 13:43:12 such as what? Jul 03 13:43:15 poland was 1st country in europe that had constitution Jul 03 13:43:15 Asking people for ID? Jul 03 13:43:17 i already posted that lcuk Jul 03 13:43:17 Longesxt English word is "antidisestablishmentarianism" :) Jul 03 13:43:26 Oh yeah, now there's a human rights violation Jul 03 13:43:31 probably except USA, crashanddie. I heard they decide everything based n prior instance Jul 03 13:43:38 pupnik, i saw it on meego but not here! Jul 03 13:43:41 alterego, well, i have no other media sample to show the problem :-( Jul 03 13:43:48 DocScrutinizer: well, it's the land of the free, innit? Jul 03 13:43:58 Arkenoi: a sample... Jul 03 13:44:00 crashanddie: hehe, yes Jul 03 13:44:19 Arkenoi: means 20 seconds of what he encoded Jul 03 13:44:26 Arkenoi: well, I don't mind. I was just saying ;) Jul 03 13:45:29 The built-in media player only supports h264 baseline. Most files in the wild are main or high profile. MPlayer supports high profile, but it runs out of CPU power at about 512x384 or so.. Jul 03 13:45:37 Arkenoi: what do you mean by damn ugly with mplayer? Jul 03 13:45:45 * DocScrutinizer wonders where you people get the longest words from. And have fun finding the longest German word :-P Jul 03 13:45:54 well constitutions don't appear sui generis - they are grounded in a framework of custom and an understanding of rightful vs illetitimate uses of power. the legal theory behind that is the subject of the above-linked podcast. it is very illuminating. Jul 03 13:45:55 ShadowJK: right... Jul 03 13:46:03 chem|st, sound out of sync, picture distortion sometimes Jul 03 13:46:10 how do rss feeder apps know when to "pull" new data Jul 03 13:46:20 and seems that it is just too slow :-( Jul 03 13:46:21 Sound out of sync is what happens when it can't decode video fast enough to keep up Jul 03 13:46:41 is there an ajax method for server to say new item ready Jul 03 13:46:47 or do they just poll Jul 03 13:47:00 ajax is always polling Jul 03 13:47:12 kerio, really Jul 03 13:47:16 Arkenoi: ok thats a known issue as ShadowJK said Jul 03 13:47:27 ShadowJK, why not to have -framedrop as default option at least? Jul 03 13:47:29 Arkenoi: I seem to remember somebody cheering "HAH! it's been the silly subtitles! without them it works" Jul 03 13:47:38 websockets on the other hand, allows for push Jul 03 13:47:39 ajax i thought opened a connection and used data pushed down it to detect stuffs Jul 03 13:47:42 re Jul 03 13:47:46 hey lardman \o Jul 03 13:47:47 i did not manage to get it viewed with command line mplayer at all though :-( Jul 03 13:47:54 hey lcuk Jul 03 13:47:57 well, longest polish word is konstantynopolitanczykiewiczowna Jul 03 13:47:59 press d on the keyboard to enable framedropping Jul 03 13:48:05 DocScrutinizer, weird :-) Jul 03 13:48:27 Though in practice this most of the time means nothing is displayed ever, if the gap in CPU power neeed and CPU power available is big Jul 03 13:49:09 so, dbus in Qt, does QDBus work? Jul 03 13:49:10 and why does media player not recognize it as valid media file? Jul 03 13:49:17 ShadowJK: I even seen cases where cpu load on skipping frames was *higher* than on normal playback :-P Jul 03 13:49:17 codecs Jul 03 13:49:26 media player is using gstreamer Jul 03 13:49:32 mplayer has it's own codecs Jul 03 13:50:03 Arkenoi, it's most likely h264 high profile. The media player only supports h264 baseline. Jul 03 13:50:04 jacekowski: Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia = fear of long words Jul 03 13:50:27 ShadowJK, and "extra decoders support" does not change it? Jul 03 13:50:44 Arkenoi: no Jul 03 13:50:45 Nope Jul 03 13:50:45 chem|st: LOL Jul 03 13:50:49 it's not about the codec Jul 03 13:50:55 kerio: it is Jul 03 13:51:14 Besides, if extra decoders support did have support for h264 main/high profile, it'd be as slow (or slower) as MPlayer :-) Jul 03 13:51:31 jacekowski: got a magic x264 decoder that allows for 1080p playback on n900? Jul 03 13:51:38 (smooth playback, i mean) Jul 03 13:51:45 There isn't one :) Jul 03 13:51:50 yeah, i know Jul 03 13:51:54 kerio: n900 SoC is fast enough to handle it Jul 03 13:52:09 at least that's what TI is claiming for little bit faster chip Jul 03 13:52:12 really? Jul 03 13:52:17 Though allegedly TI has one that can do 720p, if you pay them in truckloads of cash Jul 03 13:52:37 Or maybe it was someone else, not TI, but for omap3.. hugely expensive atleast Jul 03 13:52:46 lcuk, ger/arg? Jul 03 13:52:53 isn't that the dsp codec that you pay for though? Jul 03 13:52:57 a saw somewhere that tegra with similiar dsp is capable of 1080p Jul 03 13:53:00 lardman, yeah? Jul 03 13:53:09 "similar"? wtf? :) Jul 03 13:53:19 I thought tegra would have nvidia decoder in it Jul 03 13:53:21 in terms of performance Jul 03 13:53:21 can our hw theoretically decode 720p? Jul 03 13:53:36 lardman: sure Jul 03 13:53:53 lardman: question is: how many seconds per frame? Jul 03 13:53:59 And what codec :) Jul 03 13:54:02 well, 1080p can be decoded on 1,3GHz general purpose CPU Jul 03 13:54:06 ah I see, I was thinking real-time Jul 03 13:54:07 jacekowski, LOL Jul 03 13:54:26 my 2.66GHz struggles with some 720p files even Jul 03 13:54:32 is there any data giving required memory accesses/muls/adds/etc to decode a frame? Jul 03 13:54:40 well, my 1.3GHz athlon could decode 1080p Jul 03 13:54:50 at 23.something fps Jul 03 13:54:51 jacekowski, do yo still have it? Jul 03 13:54:55 with minimal framedrop Jul 03 13:55:14 lardman: probably the websites of the codec inventor labs will quote some numbers Jul 03 13:55:23 ShadowJK: no Jul 03 13:55:58 well, those "samples" are not 1080p. actually they are 720x480 and still n900 is too slow for it? Jul 03 13:56:15 hmmm Jul 03 13:56:17 correction Jul 03 13:56:21 that was 720p Jul 03 13:56:33 Final.Fantasy.VII.Advent.Children.Multilang.2005.720p.XviD.AC3.[SoftLand.org.pl].mkv Jul 03 13:56:52 Arkenoi, h264 main or high profile with MPlayer, resolution limit is at 512x384 or lower Jul 03 13:56:54 "You have to decide, what you really want to do" Jul 03 13:57:02 h264 baseline profile with built in media player, 800x480 Jul 03 13:57:08 so 720p is possible on 1.3GHz generic purpose cpu Jul 03 13:57:47 ooh there's another topic on my stack: did some tests with a Nokia wired remote 7-button. No conclusive results on what they do exactly to transmit/encode the button press events to the 4-pin AV connector :-/ Jul 03 13:57:54 on n900 there is GPU and DSP and VFP and NEON and ARM that can handle decoding in parallel Jul 03 13:58:02 if codec is designed properly Jul 03 13:58:05 but for sure it's not an R-ladder Jul 03 13:58:23 and for sure there's some digital logic involved Jul 03 13:58:36 SpeedEvil: ^^^ Jul 03 13:58:57 DocScrutinizer, dunno, but when I connect it to a phone that does understand 7-button remote, each button press produces a dit-dot-dit-dot sound in the background. This sound is lower on volume than the background hiss on N8x0, however. There's no such noise when I connect it to devices that do not understand 7-button remote, so the remote isn't even transmitting Jul 03 13:59:19 ESTACKOVERFLOW Jul 03 13:59:40 jacekowski, vfp, neon and arm are limited by instruction decode and issue Jul 03 13:59:53 dsp and arm core would need to be able to exchange data very fast Jul 03 14:00:11 It's a 5 man year task or thereabouts ;) Jul 03 14:00:11 ShadowJK: yup, that's conclusive. I wasn't able to probe mic resistance with a DMM on diode check setting Jul 03 14:00:15 not that fast Jul 03 14:00:17 yeees, well I wonder if that works better now than it used to Jul 03 14:00:28 ShadowJK: you just need to decode as much as you can and push it to next core Jul 03 14:00:37 so probably they work with voltages >2V for micbias Jul 03 14:01:16 Well it'd be interesting to try do cabac on either dsp or cpu, that's the easiest thing you can decouple Jul 03 14:01:33 ~cabac Jul 03 14:01:39 anyway, on N900 i wasn't able to get *any* reaction with that critter, on button push. So guess we're out of luck to hack sth in sw Jul 03 14:02:03 i hate wireless Jul 03 14:02:13 i can't play 720p over wireless Jul 03 14:02:17 lardman, context adaptive binary arithmetic coding Jul 03 14:02:17 passing large amounts of data back from the DSP was a problem on the omap2420 Jul 03 14:02:20 it's the entropy coding Jul 03 14:02:20 thanks Jul 03 14:02:42 In h264 baseline you have a less processing intensive altenrative, cavlc Jul 03 14:03:12 we can now write to the fb directly from the DSP so I understand? Like we used to do on the 770, which would make it far more appealing Jul 03 14:03:35 hm Jul 03 14:03:36 hahahAAHA Jul 03 14:03:58 i sure wish the email app had a setting to force storing of sent msgs to the imap server Jul 03 14:04:45 Mueller!!!! Jul 03 14:04:45 instead of the local sent Jul 03 14:04:51 blah Jul 03 14:05:52 shit. A 2:0 in <240s that would have been nice Jul 03 14:09:10 urgh, QDBus is confusing Jul 03 14:09:51 QDbus? Jul 03 14:10:02 yeah Jul 03 14:10:10 well QDBus I guess Jul 03 14:10:22 didn't you just say the same thing twice? Jul 03 14:10:26 what's that? Jul 03 14:10:35 Termana: capitalisation ;) Jul 03 14:10:41 DocScrutinizer51: DBus for Qt Jul 03 14:10:48 or wrapped by Qt Jul 03 14:11:00 aah yes. thought almost as much Jul 03 14:11:06 DocScrutinizer51, I meant lardman - he just said QDBus and then said QDBus again Jul 03 14:11:22 MohammadAG, no Jul 03 14:11:24 im coding Jul 03 14:11:25 oh nevermind Jul 03 14:11:28 :) Jul 03 14:11:37 http://github.com/lcuk Jul 03 14:11:40 ~nuke Termana Jul 03 14:11:41 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at Termana ... B☢☢M! Jul 03 14:12:02 well... looks like win7 has built in disc image writing huh? Jul 03 14:12:02 MASD Jul 03 14:12:41 so who knows about getting hildon-mime to work under Qt? Jul 03 14:12:45 hopefully it works Jul 03 14:12:58 Macer, besides the fact Windows 7 is junk, Windows 7 features is old news now Jul 03 14:13:13 nah, Win7 is nice cf Vista or XP Jul 03 14:15:01 lcuk, screw code Jul 03 14:15:06 Vista is piece of crap x10. I'm not just spreading the same bullshit people spew over it either. Just today I spent 30 minutes doing some networking stuff (and it still won't work) on Vista. I can do the same thing in Ubuntu in less than 2 seconds :\ Jul 03 14:15:09 DocScrutinizer, 2 minute goal for germany Jul 03 14:15:34 Termana: because you don't know how to do it Jul 03 14:15:44 Termana: don't blame your lack of knowledge on operating system Jul 03 14:15:59 alas they missed to goal the other 5 chances during first 300s Jul 03 14:16:09 Termana: well. i just wasnt expecting the iso burning Jul 03 14:16:26 jacekowski, funny. Except for the fact I had a perfectly working ICS system going, and then suddenly it stopped working and won't work again now. Even though nothing has changed. Jul 03 14:16:51 oh, football Jul 03 14:17:12 ICS doesn't like when devices disappera Jul 03 14:17:15 disappear* Jul 03 14:17:22 Termana: i am not a big fan of os bashing... unless it is osx Jul 03 14:17:25 :) Jul 03 14:17:33 yeah, osx sucks Jul 03 14:17:35 eeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Jul 03 14:17:41 * lcuk scratches for some reason Jul 03 14:17:55 os x sucks almost as much as windows Jul 03 14:17:58 jacekowski, ICS is crap. Windows is crap. End of story. Theres a little drop down menu in the networking settings that works 100% of the time to do the same thing Jul 03 14:18:07 (in Ubuntu) Jul 03 14:18:07 osx is overhyped ... nothing more Jul 03 14:18:28 Termana: it doesn't Jul 03 14:18:39 Termana: bridging is fubar in ubuntu Jul 03 14:18:43 Dare I say it, Win7 just works, while Ubuntu is a pita Jul 03 14:18:47 what's ICS? International Chili Society? Jul 03 14:18:54 internet connection sharing Jul 03 14:19:13 why not just use a $10 router? Jul 03 14:19:16 :) Jul 03 14:19:18 lardman: well it's the other way around for me. Windows isn't even usable past xp Jul 03 14:19:18 jacekowski, Whatever. I share my 3G connection over wifi everyday, with absolutely no thinking involved.. Jul 03 14:19:54 Termana: with your N900 as the mifi device? Jul 03 14:19:55 loufoque_: I'm just in a bad mood as Ubuntu is falling to bits on my current box - monitors not working, etc Jul 03 14:20:03 jacekowski, and you think "ICS doesn't like disappearing devices" is a good excuse for me to like Windows. Poor windows. It doesn't like disappearing devices. Jul 03 14:20:07 guess I'll get me a nice huge Filet of Argentina Angus Jul 03 14:20:20 loufoque_: Might just be the fault of KDE of course, Gnome worked fine Jul 03 14:20:27 lardman: multiple monitors setup can fail to work with bad drivers Jul 03 14:20:31 wow.. all i said was that i wasnt expecting iso burning support Jul 03 14:20:45 loufoque_, no - I share my USB 3G connection, over wifi, to use my n810. I don't have an n900 yet. I'll be ordering mine around the 12th Jul 03 14:20:46 * Macer crawls under a rock Jul 03 14:20:52 loufoque_: one of Window's (few) advantages is that multi-head has always been easy to setup and get working Jul 03 14:21:05 Termana: and what device do you use to do that? Jul 03 14:21:27 where's Stskeeps ? i havent seen him in a while? Jul 03 14:21:36 is he off making babies? Jul 03 14:21:56 loufoque_, what do you mean? The USB 3G dongle is a Huawei E160E and I just use my laptops wifi card Jul 03 14:22:08 Macer, he was at a festival, I think he is back now Jul 03 14:23:29 Termana: your laptop then. Jul 03 14:24:07 Termana: it would be cooler to have a router-like device dedicated to this as you wouldn't need your laptop to be on Jul 03 14:24:58 loufoque_, maybe. I just can't be stuffed buying a router that accepts 3G USB dongles :P And its only an EEE PC (701SD) anyway. Jul 03 14:25:43 blah Jul 03 14:25:48 have to reboot Jul 03 14:25:58 some routers can run open source software and have usb ports Jul 03 14:29:21 loufoque, What are you trying to say? I should buy an accessory to make it work, when using an OS that isn't craptastic solves the problem anyway? Jul 03 14:34:32 Mmmm, pizza Jul 03 14:42:21 I never thought pizza would be something I'd ever miss or crave Jul 03 14:43:03 I get it every now-and-again. Jul 03 14:43:32 That was just a couple of slices I had in the fridge from last night. Jul 03 14:43:37 Tasted better cold tbh :D Jul 03 14:43:49 Easier to eat too. Jul 03 14:45:36 GAN900: pregnant womens get that sort of cravings Jul 03 14:46:44 That was low jacekowski :P Jul 03 14:47:17 Texrats talk is pretty good pupnik Jul 03 14:47:22 Thank you for sharing the link. Jul 03 14:50:52 Termana: EEE PC 701 + 3G dongle. Sounds like you bought this in Taipei ;-P Jul 03 14:51:23 Termana: though mine is a 701SDX, in white Jul 03 14:51:39 Ooo, I really like the gaming ide.a Jul 03 14:51:47 hey guys Jul 03 14:51:50 maemo calculator Jul 03 14:51:52 Aloha lcuk Jul 03 14:51:53 hey lcuk Jul 03 14:51:56 i just tested it in portrait mode Jul 03 14:51:59 and it was broke Jul 03 14:52:06 tztztzz Jul 03 14:52:07 its unusable Jul 03 14:52:13 lcuk, give it some money Jul 03 14:52:19 needs a ui adjustment to work Jul 03 14:52:20 It won't be broke any more Jul 03 14:52:21 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10854 Jul 03 14:52:22 Bug 10854: portrait mode calculator not available Jul 03 14:52:23 i filed a bug Jul 03 14:52:27 use HP42. Works great, even in portrait :-P Jul 03 14:52:27 can we have some votes on it please Jul 03 14:53:27 lcuk: that bug is incorrect. Should read "found no adequate bin to dump calculator" Jul 03 14:53:47 hi, does anyone know if i can use the TV Catchup app out of the UK? i live in Guatemala and it asks me to sign up first but it doesnt allow me to sign up Jul 03 14:53:54 DocScrutinizer, not at all, its usable if im in landscape mode Jul 03 14:54:05 it happily performs its functin and i use it often Jul 03 14:54:05 TV Ketchup Jul 03 14:54:08 ? Jul 03 14:54:15 but i had to take my device off its portrait stand to use it Jul 03 14:54:20 Heh Jul 03 14:54:32 * pahartik finds out that "Irssi" on "Maemo" does not have "proxy" module§ Jul 03 14:54:47 theres some other things i would like to make sure happens Jul 03 14:55:07 lcuk: honestly I think even my wetware calculator is almost more usable than that silly proof of wrong concept Jul 03 14:55:07 * pahartik finds out that "Irssi" on "Maemo" does not have "proxy" module Jul 03 14:55:47 pahartik, please don't repeat yourself. This is IRC, we all saw what you said the first time :) Jul 03 14:56:09 Termana: But I corrected typo Jul 03 14:56:21 lcuk: use ibot ;-P Jul 03 14:56:26 ~ (3 + 5) * 22 Jul 03 14:56:27 176 Jul 03 14:56:27 hahha no it is a streaming app Jul 03 14:56:28 irssi also doesn't have perl m Jul 03 14:56:40 which is preventing me from robot-voice in irc Jul 03 14:57:39 Anybody know how to get rid of the extra paragraph padding with epubs in FBReader? Jul 03 14:58:22 Ooo, I recognise that voice in the background asking a question .. Jul 03 14:58:30 ninja! Jul 03 14:58:46 * lcuk just watched "Taxi 2" yesterday and giggles Jul 03 14:59:33 Termana: though my 701SDX has freggled OS (not that it ever been a really working flavour of linux), and for the life of mine I can't get a decent OS installed - to be precise I got no extrenal optical drive to boot from :-S Jul 03 15:00:15 DocScrutinizer: network? Jul 03 15:00:29 DocScrutinizer, why not use a USB stick or SD card? Thats how I load linux OSes onto mine. Jul 03 15:00:37 pupnik: I am eaiting for python module & support for xchat... Jul 03 15:00:39 Grrr, Jul 03 15:00:50 Termana: I don't have a USB stick either, and my Aspire One wouldn't boot from SD Jul 03 15:01:23 Termana: tried, probably I'm too retarded to get a USB-stick bootable Jul 03 15:01:49 luke-jr, yeah, but he has a 701SDX and mines a 701SD, they are probably using mostly the same components. Theres a possibility thats not the case though. Jul 03 15:01:49 pupnik: s/eaiting/waiting/ Jul 03 15:02:07 DocScrutinizer, you are going into the boot menu when you have the USB stick in right? (By pressing Esc) Jul 03 15:02:22 DocScrutinizer: well, USB stick is probably easier than network booting Jul 03 15:02:24 yes Jul 03 15:04:00 network boot is quite simple Jul 03 15:04:07 if we are talking about wired ethernet Jul 03 15:04:09 DocScrutinizer, tried Network booting? Jul 03 15:05:16 all device has to do is talk to dhcp, pull image from tftp and run it Jul 03 15:06:32 DocScrutinizer, http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ I use this to make mine bootable and it loads the iso on as well all by itself - so I'm not fiddling around with it all. Jul 03 15:06:44 Termana: dunno (it's collecting dust since lot longer than 1 year), but probably not Jul 03 15:07:53 Termana: that URL is an image to copy yo usb stick? Jul 03 15:09:06 DocScrutinizer51, no, its to a program that extracts the iso and makes your usb stick bootable by itself, so you don't have to fiddle around. Jul 03 15:09:32 aah, k Jul 03 15:17:04 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/02/apple_iphone_4_denial_letter/ Jul 03 15:17:07 Heh Jul 03 15:23:28 nice alterego Jul 03 15:23:48 It's refreshing listening to Apple fanbois on their forums ranting :D Jul 03 15:23:50 Termana: I'd guess I should be able to boot 701SDX from builtin SD-card reader? Jul 03 15:23:55 Rather thana newbs on tmo ranting :D Jul 03 15:24:09 DocScrutinizer, thats what I do with mine Jul 03 15:24:10 Which, I might add, has severly decreased over the past two weeks I've noticed. Jul 03 15:24:15 Or maybe I've been sleeping longer .. Jul 03 15:25:13 Oh this is nice: "What they don't realise is that now; since this software patch (if it exists) all those who posted saying they don't see any signal drop will actually now see a signal drop as the bars will correctly show a new lower signal... before they were fooled to believe that they hadn't had any signal drop. Jul 03 15:25:19 " Jul 03 15:25:32 ok. now 2 goals was about time Jul 03 15:26:22 "Give it a chance at least. The logic could be that simple i.e. if Bars = 0 then drop call." Awww, they certainly are gullable that lot :D Jul 03 15:30:20 "My feeling is that if the phone makes and receives calls clearly (both our iP4s do), then (at least to me), it's a non-issue. " Jul 03 15:30:29 Oh my god, they actually turn into Steve Jobs! Jul 03 15:31:49 DocScrutinizer51, 3-0 Jul 03 15:31:50 XD Jul 03 15:33:05 about to bolt my door Jul 03 15:35:32 who's playing? Jul 03 15:35:41 arg-ger? Jul 03 15:35:47 Germany and Argentina Jul 03 15:36:01 i hope argentina is winning Jul 03 15:37:09 ... Jul 03 15:37:47 nope Jul 03 15:37:58 3-0 ger-arg Jul 03 15:40:32 kerio: stfu Jul 03 15:40:37 :p Jul 03 15:40:45 yeah! wait what? Jul 03 15:41:06 this is #maemo, not #retarded-adults-playing-childrens-games Jul 03 15:41:13 <.< Jul 03 15:41:24 ooooh SNAP! Jul 03 15:44:36 is the filemanager source available anywhere chaps? Jul 03 15:44:54 yes Jul 03 15:45:01 :) Jul 03 15:45:12 Do you know where? Jul 03 15:45:15 though, HFM itself I'm not sure Jul 03 15:45:26 oh :( Jul 03 15:45:28 LOLOLOL Jul 03 15:45:44 ROFLMFAO Jul 03 15:45:58 hmm Jul 03 15:46:05 please send photos of Maradonna to me! Jul 03 15:46:19 LMFAO Jul 03 15:46:53 * MohammadAG expects a 5th one Jul 03 15:47:27 they have to hurry for the 5th Jul 03 15:48:54 wasn't that AR whose players started a beatup when game was just finished? Jul 03 15:49:20 heh Jul 03 15:51:28 I can haz +o to add "Germany for world cup 2010" to the topic? Jul 03 15:51:29 XD Jul 03 15:52:47 i will haz you dos ed Jul 03 15:52:54 dos'ed Jul 03 15:53:06 good luck with that Jul 03 15:53:14 NAAAAH! Jul 03 15:53:40 wanna bet? Jul 03 15:54:04 nah, I don't want you to lose shit :) Jul 03 15:54:18 ooh, for [^(51)] I don't care that much :-P Jul 03 15:54:46 cya Jul 03 15:54:54 duh? Jul 03 15:55:03 i was about to dos him Jul 03 15:55:05 and he left Jul 03 15:55:26 lol Jul 03 15:55:59 Since its 1:30 in the morning here, I suppose I better be off as well. Good night Jul 03 15:56:13 night Termana Jul 03 15:56:46 jacekowski: keep your fingers off my bouncer :-P Jul 03 16:01:21 * alterego wonders off to make a snack before heading into the town ... Jul 03 16:04:05 The 4th just had to fall on a Sunday Jul 03 16:07:19 jacekowski: be my guest, DoS ChanServ ;) Jul 03 16:07:21 :) Jul 03 16:20:58 so, anyone know where the hildon filemanager source lives? iirc the backend lib was open wasn't it? Jul 03 16:26:30 yes lardman the backend is open Jul 03 16:41:58 Af'noon, all Jul 03 16:42:28 Jaffa, liked that open letter about OBS maemo area :) Jul 03 16:42:37 alterego: lbt did most of the work ;-) Jul 03 16:42:55 Well, he's not here, so you can have my appreciation :P Jul 03 16:43:08 alterego: ta :) Jul 03 16:43:11 Any feedback from LF? Jul 03 16:43:19 None. Jul 03 16:43:20 Or whomever :D Jul 03 16:43:25 Oh, :/ Jul 03 16:43:27 Not really; so I think we're going ahead Jul 03 16:43:38 I liked the Nokia name drop too :D Jul 03 16:44:30 Oh dear, time for another browser history purge :/ Jul 03 16:44:41 Really makes auto complete pointless :D Jul 03 16:50:44 Grr, now the browser just fails to load pages, wtf. It looks like it tries and then gives up :( Jul 03 16:54:44 Oops Jul 03 16:54:58 Jaffa, I actually think I prefer the interface of Docs. Jul 03 16:55:07 Etherpad has some clunkiness. Jul 03 16:56:06 for what? Jul 03 16:56:42 kerio, mwkn.net issue creation. Jul 03 16:57:41 what's wrong with textarea? :P Jul 03 16:59:21 kerio, it means we have to build our collaboration environment from scratch? Jul 03 16:59:29 Which is actually the plan, but. Jul 03 16:59:52 GAN900: The new version of docs doesn't make it easy to rip out the plain text doc :-( Jul 03 17:00:18 so far, pecan > haze and butterfly right? Jul 03 17:07:28 Ah Jul 03 17:10:33 TEAM PlanB Jul 03 18:11:20 where does the openvpn applet put its logs? Jul 03 18:12:06 hi there, I know this is not a maemo-related question really - but I hope to there are some N900 owners here =] Basically trying to get N900 but apparently it has a simlock (?!) - I was under the impression that they don't have that (apparently that's from vodafone) , anyone had any experiencie with that by any chance ? Jul 03 18:13:51 ljsdofuynsdfufuh: nickname Jul 03 18:13:54 n1x0n: never heard of a simlocked N900 Jul 03 18:16:44 luke-jr: yeah same! odd. I'll google a bit more, thx Jul 03 18:19:52 how do you highlight text to copy and paste from a webpage? Jul 03 18:21:59 timetochange: swipe your finger from the bottom left, outside of the screen into the screen Jul 03 18:22:16 timetochange: you'll have a mouse cursor. Also works for Javascript hover. Jul 03 18:22:57 timetochange: would you mind just changing the default nickname in your IRC client? Thanks. Jul 03 18:23:11 timetochange: next time you'll be banned. I'm tired of asking. Jul 03 18:23:15 ... Jul 03 18:23:21 what's wrong with it? Jul 03 18:23:30 not this one, the previous one Jul 03 18:23:33 yeah Jul 03 18:23:36 what's wrong with it? :/ Jul 03 18:23:38 he knows what I'm on about Jul 03 18:23:45 it's jibberish? Jul 03 18:23:49 im not getting this cursor... Jul 03 18:24:09 so? Jul 03 18:24:15 crashanddie is gibberish too Jul 03 18:24:17 :D Jul 03 18:24:27 sure Jul 03 18:24:49 bottom left, meaning over that arrow? Jul 03 18:24:56 I'm not getting a cursor Jul 03 18:25:03 crashanddie: if it really bothers you, /ban ljsdofuynsdfufuh!*@* Jul 03 18:25:05 "over that arrow"? Jul 03 18:25:15 luke-jr: I'd rather he does it on his own. Jul 03 18:25:25 luke-jr: but yeah, that's what'll happen eventually Jul 03 18:26:23 ah wtf Jul 03 18:26:25 saw it for a sec Jul 03 18:27:20 once i have it how do i highlight? Jul 03 18:27:34 I'd say a +q is absolutely sufficient in that case Jul 03 18:27:44 once the cursor icon display, click it. Then you can drag your finger around Jul 03 18:28:03 DocScrutinizer: +q prevents nick change, so really the same as +b Jul 03 18:28:08 is it just the length of the gibberish? Jul 03 18:28:20 * DocScrutinizer is dragging around his fingers Jul 03 18:28:32 /ban ??????????*!*@* to enforce IRC RFC :P Jul 03 18:29:27 /ban luke-jr to fight poisonous ideas Jul 03 18:30:10 why is talk.maemo.org redirected again to internettablettalk? Jul 03 18:30:43 damn, even registered Jul 03 18:31:29 ptl: it doesn't Jul 03 18:31:37 It is a synonym Jul 03 18:32:18 wow using that cursor is a fucking skill Jul 03 18:33:35 btw crashanddie while you're over it: /ban `* [* *___* |* ^* Jul 03 18:33:36 I know it is a synonym, but now every thread I click goes on to internettablettalk instead of maemo.org Jul 03 18:33:50 DocScrutinizer: eh? Jul 03 18:34:07 ptl: I don't see that behaviour Jul 03 18:34:17 ptl: steps to reproduce? Jul 03 18:35:34 timetochange: i don't think it's hard... Jul 03 18:35:35 crashanddie: I gather you never tried to enter nicknames like |R or _0x47 or \[\[\[ bla ]]] on N900 Jul 03 18:35:55 DocScrutinizer: nope Jul 03 18:36:21 I keep getting socket.connect() failed using the openvpn thing Jul 03 18:36:23 honestly, ljsdofuynsdfufuh is easy (with nick completion) compared to these Jul 03 18:36:38 why thank you Jul 03 18:36:43 use irssi? Jul 03 18:37:05 timetochange: port in use? Jul 03 18:37:12 timetochange: socket timeout? Jul 03 18:37:18 1194 Jul 03 18:37:20 crashanddie: can't seem to reproduce this right now, weird Jul 03 18:37:43 didnt specify a timeout Jul 03 18:38:17 timetochange: no, I meant that the socket remains in use for a while if the application crashes Jul 03 18:39:04 well, where does it put logs? Jul 03 18:39:11 timetochange: just look in netstat Jul 03 18:39:41 probably something like netstat -tn | grep 1194 Jul 03 18:39:56 netstat is borked (busybox), install the non busybox version (packaged as netstat) Jul 03 18:41:10 "no kernel support for AF INET6 (tcp)" Jul 03 18:41:56 Wow, NITdroid now can be booted without R&D mode... Sweet. It's progressing faster than Meego! Jul 03 18:44:56 luke-jr: [Support] CHARSET=ascii NICKLEN=16 CHANNELLEN=50 .... I'd say that's freenode's call, not the chanop enforcing some obscure RFC Jul 03 18:52:45 have you guys ever met a GNU/Linux user that also worked as a male stripper or gogoboy? Jul 03 18:53:19 wtf Jul 03 18:56:19 Could someone volunteer to prepare a web page on the (meego) wiki? I need some MeeGo and some Maemo volunteer devs who can help verify the OBS setup. Jul 03 18:56:49 I need a list where people can volunteer and say what they can offer Jul 03 18:57:18 (ie why/how they can help beta test it) Jul 03 19:00:17 I'm trying to use the itshidden.com free openvpn server since I can't run any of my own at the moment, and I'm trying to narrow down why my n900 won't connect Jul 03 19:01:32 anyone using python-location? i'm getting device.fix[0] == 3, which doesn't match any of the location.METHOD_* constants. i can't figure out what it means. Jul 03 19:02:07 can i wifi tether the n900 Jul 03 19:02:13 i forgot my damn usb cable Jul 03 19:02:55 Macer yes, but you need to install a custom kernel to do so, or buy joikuspot which will setup an ad-hoc tether Jul 03 19:04:57 hm. i put the "advanced" kernel on it already Jul 03 19:05:10 maybe that already has the support built in Jul 03 19:05:14 if you've got the power kernel installed, then just install mobilehotspot from -testing Jul 03 19:05:21 and youll get an infrastructure hotspot Jul 03 19:05:49 i thought the n900 would have a more universal usb connector, like the ones for cameras or something Jul 03 19:06:13 doesnt get much more universal than micro usb Jul 03 19:06:16 it is standard, just a newer standard than usb-mini X( Jul 03 19:07:13 ah Jul 03 19:17:47 honestly most cameras do not have a real standard USB Jul 03 19:18:24 DocScrutinizer, what would you do if you kept getting the error socket.connected() failed from openvpn applet? Jul 03 19:18:53 buy vodka? Jul 03 19:19:16 hm, does formating the microsd to ext3 prevent the n900 from accessing it? Jul 03 19:19:17 LOL Jul 03 19:19:22 mount it Jul 03 19:19:54 MohammadAG51: i don't have one at hand which i can format to try it out ;) Jul 03 19:20:22 Have any of you guys installed the Juniper SSL VPN on N900 with success? Jul 03 19:20:24 oh Jul 03 19:20:28 you need to mount it manually Jul 03 19:20:37 or add a line to rcS-late Jul 03 19:20:49 but i can rw it then as a normal user? Jul 03 19:21:23 mikki-kun: eh? Jul 03 19:22:13 hmm Jul 03 19:22:21 i think hildon-fm would bitch about it Jul 03 19:22:35 DocScrutinizer: read/write access... sorry if that sounds a lil over the top, but sometimes the n900 behaves really odd Jul 03 19:22:41 MohammadAG51: why? Jul 03 19:22:58 DocScrutinizer, well, it didn't copy to my flash drive Jul 03 19:23:05 you can access /home Jul 03 19:24:53 sure you need to care about mounting... but when it's mounted normally, I can't see the issue Jul 03 19:25:00 and chmod it user Jul 03 19:25:02 mompl, lemme try Jul 03 19:25:10 uh I mean chown Jul 03 19:25:16 aah Jul 03 19:25:18 * ShadowJK runs mmc1 as ext3 Jul 03 19:25:31 ok, so I'll not try Jul 03 19:25:47 even whule I'm sure I already did Jul 03 19:26:06 hm, thanks... so i need to make a small script in /etc/rcS.d/ (if that is the dir) and that would be it... Jul 03 19:26:17 doesnt the camera app fail if the internal mmc gets formatted to ext3? Jul 03 19:26:23 or did someone figure out a fix for that? Jul 03 19:26:24 got a uSD with 13G VFAT, 2.5G ext3, and rest is swap Jul 03 19:26:38 nidO: i asked for the microSD not the emmc ;) Jul 03 19:26:47 so you did Jul 03 19:26:51 I thought that's been fixed with 1.1.1 even Jul 03 19:27:08 well, I assume the same applies that the camera app wont be able to save to the microsd if you format it to ext3 Jul 03 19:27:21 If you mount it manually you can't use it with the camera Jul 03 19:27:36 If you spend time modifying scripts and such, I'm told it'd work Jul 03 19:27:55 man, nokia really left a mess for that >.< Jul 03 19:28:45 IIRC there's never been an issue with ext3. It's just been the rudimentary permissions handling that made it work with VFAT Jul 03 19:29:56 hm, seems kinda lazy then somehow if they didn't wanna set the permissions right Jul 03 19:29:57 like DCIM created by a root process root:root 744 and then userland camera-ui trying to write to it Jul 03 19:30:54 also I heard the folder names were case-messedup Jul 03 19:31:11 hu? how do you mean? Jul 03 19:31:20 * h0n3st is away: I'm busy Jul 03 19:31:24 For me the issue is that the initial script that tries to mount it fails (as it greps partition table for msdos partition and then tries to mount every msdos partition as vfat), so everything thinks the sd is corrupted Jul 03 19:31:28 so probably all was done wrong that possibly could, and would never show up under windows Jul 03 19:31:29 fat is case insenetive Jul 03 19:31:31 YES! Hermes has just updated 4 of my test contacts with PHONE NUMBERS from LinkedIn. Including internationalising them where the info on LinkedIn isn't already internationalised :-D Jul 03 19:31:56 mikki-kun: dcim vs DCIM Jul 03 19:32:05 +44 Jaffa :) Jul 03 19:32:05 so things that work with either "FILENAME" and "filename" fail when applied to ext3 Jul 03 19:32:32 mah >.< hopefully they make that better in maemo6 -.- Jul 03 19:32:42 and i hope it's available for the n900 Jul 03 19:32:50 it's allegedly fixed since 1.1.1 Jul 03 19:33:07 but is it really? Jul 03 19:33:16 check the ticket Jul 03 19:33:57 [2010-07-03 21:27:21] If you mount it manually you can't use it with the camera Jul 03 19:33:59 [2010-07-03 21:27:36] If you spend time modifying scripts and such, I'm told it'd work Jul 03 19:34:38 Jaffa, that's such a sad thing to be excited over. :P Jul 03 19:35:15 GAN900: You've never had to deal with GLists, EVCard and EContacts in Python :-p Jul 03 19:35:24 Hehe Jul 03 19:36:04 Jaffa: excellent! Jul 03 19:36:24 now... can you help me sync to egroupware and/or ldap ? Jul 03 19:36:39 lbt: might have dinner instead, TBH Jul 03 19:36:56 heh... and when are you coming over? Jul 03 19:39:37 lbt: not *quite* sure. Next Saturday: got to tidy the house for new floor to be fitted; Sunday going to the British GP Jul 03 19:39:52 hows tomorrow Jul 03 19:40:39 lbt: *may* be able to pop down for a couple of hours. Mrs Jaffa & Jafflets are away, and although I've got jobs hopefully they'll smallificate themselves tonight. Jul 03 19:40:59 hey, cool - I wasn't expecting that... Jul 03 19:41:02 be great though Jul 03 19:41:37 let me know... I'll be around all night and tomorrow Jul 03 19:43:35 lbt: I'll eat now. Try and get stuff done too Jul 03 19:47:28 Is there some way to get tagged bookmarks in microb? Jul 03 19:48:03 infobot, maemosdk Jul 03 19:48:04 i guess maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation Jul 03 19:50:35 I would prefer to use microb as it is faster than other other browsers, but tagged bookmarks, or some other means to organize bookmarks is essential. Jul 03 19:50:49 ekhm Jul 03 19:50:52 microb is slowest Jul 03 19:50:57 opera is like 3x faster Jul 03 19:51:03 and chromium is like 10x faster Jul 03 19:51:10 but chromium has other issues Jul 03 19:52:33 jacekowski: which issues does chromium have? Jul 03 19:53:20 I'll try Chromium then :) we all have issues Jul 03 19:53:50 I fundamentally disagree about chromium being 10* faster Jul 03 19:54:00 hm, are chromium/opera/fennec installing /opt ? Jul 03 19:54:06 *installing in Jul 03 19:54:37 I have also seen no benchmarks of read performance of /opt differening importantly Jul 03 19:56:02 Microb seems faster than Firefox that's all I've really compared Microb to. Jul 03 19:56:14 i am just asking for the sake of a clean rootfs ;) Jul 03 19:57:16 rm -r... nvm Jul 03 19:57:30 * lcuk slaps MohammadAG51 with a frals Jul 03 19:57:50 * MohammadAG51 slaps lcuk with a football Jul 03 19:58:20 the recent 1.1 release of ff? Jul 03 19:58:29 Yep Jul 03 19:58:30 MohammadAG51: that is a lil overkill on cleaning it =p Jul 03 19:58:57 * lcuk volleys the ball over MohammadAG51s head and into the net Jul 03 20:00:35 I need to get tab working on n900 keyboard. Jul 03 20:01:17 hm, which operaversion is it we use when installing from the app-manager? Jul 03 20:02:36 * MohammadAG51 gets a golf ball Jul 03 20:02:43 lcuk, golf? Jul 03 20:03:00 10-alpha1-3 Jul 03 20:03:56 yigal: thanks so it seems opera mobile Jul 03 20:04:05 must be MohammadAG51 the match isnt grasping me Jul 03 20:07:25 Yes, mobile Jul 03 20:07:59 hm, curious what sets mobile from mini apart... Jul 03 20:20:44 hm, i am trying now opera mobile and from the looks of it it ain't faster than microb Jul 03 20:26:12 mikki-kun Jul 03 20:26:18 if you're looking for opera turbo Jul 03 20:26:19 mikki-kun: mini does all the rendering remotely, mobile actually does rendering work on the device Jul 03 20:26:25 it should be in settings Jul 03 20:26:34 but Jul 03 20:26:51 FIQ: i am comparing without any serversided help ;) Jul 03 20:26:52 i think it's slighty slower than mini Jul 03 20:26:57 but dunno about it Jul 03 20:27:03 mikki-kun, ah Jul 03 20:27:51 sure, opera turbo can improve it and save data, but i think that doesn't go quite fair with the rendering then when compared to other browsers without this kind of feature Jul 03 20:28:19 and i am not so sure about my data ^^ Jul 03 20:29:33 could be that it gets transmitted in some way to their servers (haven't looked that deep into it, but will do it) Jul 03 20:32:06 microlith: well, not really, "rendering" is the wrong word here Jul 03 20:34:58 X-Fade: ping.... nw seems broken on the OBS be Jul 03 20:44:20 is there a video recorder of N900 somewhere? Jul 03 20:44:23 er Jul 03 20:44:28 s/video/screen/ Jul 03 20:45:56 FIQ, the simplest is to install x11vncserver and use some recorder on desktop to do the recording Jul 03 20:46:18 ah, and use Wi-Fi i guess Jul 03 20:46:28 not home for a week. :P Jul 03 20:46:30 but ok Jul 03 20:47:22 and by the way, everyone seems to complain about glitchy sound on m64p, works just fine here, but in some cirumstances, it makes the games slow down... just so you know - it's not buggy at all here Jul 03 20:48:01 tried f.e. RR@MK64, time trial, fullspeed w/sound Jul 03 20:51:33 http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-it-crowd/4od#3082365 Jul 03 20:51:35 - i just wanted to say you i'm not a windows cleaner Jul 03 20:51:36 - macs? Jul 03 20:51:37 - no, i really just work with windows. Jul 03 20:54:39 restricted content the link you send Jul 03 20:57:21 it's UK only Jul 03 21:16:25 well Jul 03 21:16:31 i guess mobile hotspot actually works Jul 03 21:16:37 kind of flaky though :) Jul 03 21:16:40 but good enough Jul 03 21:30:39 hi Jul 03 21:30:42 * crashanddie laughs Jul 03 21:30:56 My ISP sends streams at full HD (1080p) Jul 03 21:31:10 but until very recently (firmware upgrade), the TV boxes only supporter 720p Jul 03 21:31:19 s/ter/ted/ Jul 03 21:31:19 crashanddie meant: but until very recently (firmware upgrade), the TV boxes only supported 720p Jul 03 21:32:17 I have a trouble I install flashlight but I don't know how to start it, it doesn't appear in the applet Jul 03 21:35:45 you open the shitter Jul 03 21:35:53 then you close the camera app Jul 03 21:35:55 then it appears Jul 03 21:36:21 SpeedEvil: Hmmm. But if you have to use the flashlight to even find the shitter? >:) Jul 03 21:36:24 scnr. Jul 03 21:37:02 aha! my problem with capslock always on with vnc is solved - the 'text input' setting had 'auto capitalization' on. turning that off fixed it. Jul 03 21:37:30 wooo .... OBS is xen-ized Jul 03 21:37:46 which was kinda essential for being able to let people use it Jul 03 21:38:44 SpeedEvil: Even if I open the shitter there is nothing Jul 03 21:38:50 hmm Jul 03 21:39:06 * SpeedEvil is unsure he has flashlight installed actually. Jul 03 21:39:09 * SpeedEvil chekcs. Jul 03 21:39:11 SpeedEvil: shitter? Jul 03 21:39:25 SpeedEvil: I find I have to scroll (a lot of applet :s) Jul 03 21:39:26 * SpeedEvil sighs Jul 03 21:39:34 Nadley: I'm unable to scroll Jul 03 21:40:21 Nadley: oh Jul 03 21:40:29 Nadley: I never knew you could do that. Jul 03 21:40:34 :d Jul 03 21:40:44 Nadley: What a clever way to utterly hide the fact that there are more options... Jul 03 21:41:15 yeah - flashlight works Jul 03 21:41:39 yes I was looking for it for a while thinking there was something wrong with the installation Jul 03 21:43:42 SpeedEvil: do you use Cellular Modem Control Buttons ? because I install it but I can't find how to use it Jul 03 21:45:30 yes Jul 03 21:45:34 well... Jul 03 21:45:42 you click '2g' '3g' or 'dual' Jul 03 21:45:56 and it makes the modem connect over 2g, over 3g, or allows both Jul 03 21:46:18 Nadley: hold on, is that the switch between phone and tablet? Jul 03 21:46:33 oh - sorry - no - that's a different appletr Jul 03 21:46:41 it's on the menu you get by pushing the power button Jul 03 21:46:56 SpeedEvil: yes I have the applet it is the other one Jul 03 21:47:18 :D Jul 03 21:47:24 * lcuk likes his image select Jul 03 21:47:43 kerio: I know but I have nothing new on the menu Jul 03 21:51:19 god I'm really starting to hate these javascript-riddled pages that feel like you're handling billions of requests in their stead Jul 03 21:52:20 crashanddie: noscript? Jul 03 21:53:02 kerio: what is the name of the entry in the menu Jul 03 21:53:26 "Tablet" iirc Jul 03 21:53:35 kerio: can't be bothered to port noscript to safari Jul 03 21:53:42 safari? Jul 03 21:53:46 oh, not on the n00 Jul 03 21:53:47 er Jul 03 21:53:48 n900 Jul 03 21:54:50 greetings Jul 03 21:58:16 I am seriously thinking about getting an N900 soon -could be tomorrow- , as I found a place where it sells it in installments with similar total as it is sold now locally here. I have an important question: how can I 1) backup the files to the computer and then restore it back, 2) how to sync the data -contacts, calender etc- with a local computer, not to online service? Jul 03 22:00:03 kerio: i haven't this entry my menu didn't change with or without the app Jul 03 22:01:00 <`0660> smhar, ou would use Ovi Suite on Windows to do that Jul 03 22:01:23 smhar: what's your OS? Jul 03 22:02:00 `0660, kerio, oops, I forgot to mention, I am using debian squeeze Jul 03 22:02:09 smhar: 1) open URL "sftp://root@yourN900-IP:/" in your browser and copy / to local backup Jul 03 22:02:25 DocScrutinizer: after installing ssh Jul 03 22:02:30 yes Jul 03 22:02:39 DocScrutinizer: how can you restore it though? Jul 03 22:03:00 I wasn't going to explain each small detail, as he can't duplicate atm Jul 03 22:03:26 is there a real need to backup data if everything is synced to somewhere else? Jul 03 22:03:50 smhar: 2) that's a little bit complicated, depending on what you are using on your desktop PC Jul 03 22:03:51 smhar: there is 'backup' a nokia app on the phone that can backup to a SD card Jul 03 22:04:12 I am not a guru but I am not a total newbie Jul 03 22:04:18 :-) Jul 03 22:04:23 smhar: do you know how linux works? Jul 03 22:04:25 The SD card is the easiest way Jul 03 22:04:27 smhar: of course Jul 03 22:04:38 kerio, well enough for me, and learning more by the day Jul 03 22:04:48 then you're good Jul 03 22:04:57 buy it, it's amazing Jul 03 22:05:24 SpeedEvil: 'back up _to the computer_...' - that's for sure most easy via scp/sftp Jul 03 22:05:38 yeah but what good is a backup if you can't restore it anyway? Jul 03 22:05:45 DocScrutinizer: well... I'm unsure how well that would work Jul 03 22:05:46 kerio, I love it already, my only concern is that it may have a short life :-) Jul 03 22:05:55 you can always buy another Jul 03 22:05:57 ;) Jul 03 22:06:09 DocScrutinizer; data inconsistency issues and all Jul 03 22:06:24 A snapshot /home would be nice Jul 03 22:06:36 At USB2, it'd only be 100s Jul 03 22:06:54 Docscrutinizer, I am currently using thunderbird bu I am willing to switch to -almost- anything to be able to sync Jul 03 22:07:10 Doing it mounted raises data consistency issues though. Jul 03 22:07:12 SpeedEvil: highly unlikely, but ok you will need completely different methods then, which aren't really available ootb now Jul 03 22:07:19 indeed Jul 03 22:07:56 just backup your *data* as you would normally Jul 03 22:07:57 kerio, true, and this is what I've been doing with Nokia, for years Jul 03 22:08:02 it's a computer Jul 03 22:08:11 you don't backup your whole OS Jul 03 22:08:16 problem is, they are moving faster these days than before Jul 03 22:08:34 SpeedEvil: would you agree on a double backup and md5-compare the both gives extremely low probability of unnoticed inconsistencies? Jul 03 22:08:34 * SpeedEvil straps his n900 down otherwise it bounces off the walls. Jul 03 22:08:48 DocScrutinizer: not quite. Jul 03 22:09:05 SpeedEvil: aw, my n900 must be broken then Jul 03 22:09:07 it just sits there Jul 03 22:09:12 no bouncing Jul 03 22:09:19 kerio: Turn on the GPS. Jul 03 22:09:27 huh? why? Jul 03 22:09:27 Mine bounces around 20km Jul 03 22:09:32 lol Jul 03 22:09:39 that's... not good Jul 03 22:09:56 Well - to be fair - that is cell positioning - which can be very broken Jul 03 22:10:07 oh, not gps then Jul 03 22:10:18 so what about the sync? Jul 03 22:10:23 well, i live in a city and cell positioning is incredibly accurate Jul 03 22:10:29 smhar: thunderbird on linux? Jul 03 22:10:45 smhar: I've never done sync, so I can't advise - don't use the n900 for email Jul 03 22:10:52 why does the screen get brighter for a bit and then dark again before it turns off? Jul 03 22:10:54 why not? Jul 03 22:10:56 kerio, or anything else if necessary Jul 03 22:11:07 im thinking it might have to do with that brightness applet Jul 03 22:11:09 smhar: what's your email provider? Jul 03 22:11:11 smhar: kerio got a point there. N900 is so much closer to a regular linux PC than you probably might think. Just consider how you'd do if it were a laptop and no "phone" Jul 03 22:11:40 SpeedEvil, it is for the contacts as well, I am adding many contacts daily, and I need the in my pc as well Jul 03 22:11:49 smhar: Well... Jul 03 22:11:56 DocScrutinizer: isync doesn't work for IM data of the contacts :( Jul 03 22:12:00 smhar: I have recieved one call on my n900... Jul 03 22:12:03 timetochange: it gets brighter because you turned on the light or placed your finger somewhere off the ALS Jul 03 22:12:17 kerio, I am using my own email through a hosting company Jul 03 22:12:25 smhar: does it support IMAP? Jul 03 22:12:31 because if it does, there's no need to sync emails Jul 03 22:12:36 and that's one big point there Jul 03 22:12:39 kerio: uhuh. No idea what you're talking about Jul 03 22:12:52 DocScrutinizer: ? Jul 03 22:13:56 SpeedEvil, I want to use it as my mail mobile, hoping that it will develop smart phones skills as well as pc skills, whatever those are Jul 03 22:14:05 well Jul 03 22:14:09 that may be a bit hard Jul 03 22:14:12 since it's not a smartphone Jul 03 22:14:23 kerio, yes and pop3 and almost everything :-0 Jul 03 22:14:46 smhar: the N900's contacs app can ex/import vcard Jul 03 22:14:50 vcf Jul 03 22:14:55 smhar: use IMAP and email is kept syncronized Jul 03 22:15:05 export/import vcards to sync contacts Jul 03 22:15:25 kerio: IMAP seems unreliable or broken on N900 Jul 03 22:15:26 or install Bluetooth DUN on the n900 and use syncml through bluetooth Jul 03 22:15:27 SpeedEvil, s/mail mobile / main mobile Jul 03 22:15:29 that's kinda standard Jul 03 22:15:52 DocScrutinizer: not a big email user Jul 03 22:16:03 * SpeedEvil wishes someone would fix sync. Jul 03 22:16:04 and if everything craps out, i can just open gmail.com with the browser Jul 03 22:16:07 But it's a huge project Jul 03 22:16:13 kerio, smart phone is all about software Jul 03 22:16:16 SpeedEvil: what's broken about sync? Jul 03 22:16:37 smhar: the n900 is not a smartphone Jul 03 22:16:49 it's a computer Jul 03 22:17:07 kerio: That is - fix sync by implementing one protocol among 'all' opensource things where it would make sense. Jul 03 22:17:10 I have tried to make a screencast on my device with the load applet but I can read it, it is a avi file Jul 03 22:17:10 piss off with that argument? Jul 03 22:17:29 smhar: you can use several other mail-agents on N900 (heard of claws for example). Alas integration to contacts database is gone then Jul 03 22:17:50 kerio, still it lacks -in the software side- many 'basic feature' of a modern phone, that will come by time Jul 03 22:18:00 SpeedEvil: doesn't it sync somewhat nicely with that open cloud service? Jul 03 22:18:19 i'm syncing it with google contacts through my computer as of now Jul 03 22:18:36 nite all, sweet dreams Jul 03 22:18:38 i could enable mail for exchange Jul 03 22:18:48 but meh Jul 03 22:19:12 kerio: how do you sync with google contacts I want to do the same Jul 03 22:19:13 smhar: don't buy N900 based on a bet on future development Jul 03 22:19:14 kerio, I do not use google contacts and I do not plan to, Jul 03 22:19:23 Nadley: isync on osx Jul 03 22:19:42 docscrutinizer, why? Jul 03 22:19:45 smhar: check if you can find to get it in a shape so you can do the things you need right now Jul 03 22:20:03 kerio: ok I'm on linux Jul 03 22:20:21 then you need to sync it through the n900 itself Jul 03 22:20:29 settings->mail for exchange Jul 03 22:20:33 google for the settings Jul 03 22:20:53 docscrutinizer, I am ok with it as it is now, but I am always hoping for better :-) Jul 03 22:21:03 sure :-) Jul 03 22:21:17 docscrutinizer, do you mean the development will stop Jul 03 22:21:23 n900 developent is kinda slowed down atm Jul 03 22:21:30 at least, the official development Jul 03 22:21:32 smhar: you'll be amazed what this nice little thing actually can do Jul 03 22:21:50 i guess nokia is just waiting for the opensource developers to reverse-engineer *everything* by themselves Jul 03 22:22:06 so they don't actually have to, you know, *do* stuff Jul 03 22:22:06 smhar: no, but you'll never know when or if at all a particular function will be available Jul 03 22:22:11 docscrutinizer, in addition to finally having a really linux phone.. ok computer Jul 03 22:22:25 kerio: I know about Mfe but I don't know if it will sync all data about my contacts Jul 03 22:24:40 but this is very strange, N900 is a linux 'computer, and it can not sync with another linux computer, Jul 03 22:24:48 funny is both are debian Jul 03 22:25:13 well debian means nothing at all Jul 03 22:25:27 I know, but it is just funny, to me Jul 03 22:25:40 thunderbird on debian will happily sync with thunderbird on n900 if you tell him to Jul 03 22:25:46 even on debian you can have gnome on one laptop and KDE on your desktop box Jul 03 22:25:56 kerio: exactly Jul 03 22:26:14 kerio: thunderbird on n900? Jul 03 22:26:31 dunno, has somebody ported it meanwhile? Jul 03 22:26:34 Nadley: it probably exists somewhere Jul 03 22:26:41 kerio, but the N900 contacts are not stored in TB for N900 Jul 03 22:26:42 if it doesn't, easy debian and install it there Jul 03 22:27:10 depends where YOU store them, obviously ;-D Jul 03 22:27:44 but no, maemo doesn't use TB to store phone contacts Jul 03 22:27:55 maemo's contact system is great for IM Jul 03 22:28:06 docscrutinizer, :-( Jul 03 22:28:14 I think I heard it's loosely based on evolution Jul 03 22:28:38 I do not think it was a difficult thing for Nokia, or maemo developers to make it a bit more open Jul 03 22:29:05 smhar: a lot can be said about nokia's openness Jul 03 22:29:07 docscrutinizer, If I use evolution in linux, can I syn? Jul 03 22:30:02 http://wiki.maemo.org/Sync Jul 03 22:33:31 docscrutinizer, well, it basically says 'yes', it can sync with evolution Jul 03 22:34:09 yeah, that's what I seem to recall as well Jul 03 22:34:34 smhar: http://syncevolution.org/ Jul 03 22:34:54 you basically run a sync server on your home computer and sync it via wifi Jul 03 22:35:00 kerio, yes, I am actually reading it right now Jul 03 22:42:54 Docscrutinizer, SpeedEvil, kerio, living with linux for several years now and mostly with debian testing, taught me not to expect an 'easy' solution, like in windows clicking system, and I am happy with this as long as I can get my job done :-) Jul 03 22:51:58 * Nadley is trying mfe with google and it look working very good :d Jul 03 23:12:18 wholy fuck I'm scared Jul 03 23:12:23 phone just keeps restarting Jul 03 23:12:44 I tried to power cycle it when the application phone would'nt start Jul 03 23:12:48 it just quit right away Jul 03 23:13:31 ~flashing Jul 03 23:13:32 i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jul 03 23:14:11 so it just stops working randomly and the only way to fix it is delete everything and start anew? Jul 03 23:14:49 the only thing that was installed recently was an update for UUSD applet, and that was hours ago Jul 03 23:15:59 well depends on what you did Jul 03 23:16:10 if you have -devel enabled, you have only yourself to blame Jul 03 23:16:10 i really need to make some calls Jul 03 23:16:11 FUCK Jul 03 23:16:24 i have testing enabled Jul 03 23:16:28 not devel Jul 03 23:16:29 that too Jul 03 23:17:00 see http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing Jul 03 23:18:53 there is nothing to try besides reflashing if it doesnt boot?! Jul 03 23:20:18 well, I'm not sure what caused it to break Jul 03 23:20:25 imagine if you had to reinstall linux everytime an app stopped working Jul 03 23:20:28 me neither Jul 03 23:20:36 I was just walking around and tried to use my phone Jul 03 23:20:39 you could try a different OS, but you need to have that before it actually breaks :) Jul 03 23:20:40 the app just quit right away Jul 03 23:20:40 has anyone encountered the Nokia's WSD with N900 yet Jul 03 23:20:43 so i tried to turn it off and on again Jul 03 23:20:48 and it wont boot, just keeps restarting Jul 03 23:20:53 I have very bad memories with those Jul 03 23:21:56 wsd? Jul 03 23:22:16 maemo.org is down? Jul 03 23:22:23 seems so Jul 03 23:22:24 SpeedEvil, White Screen of Death Jul 03 23:22:34 what was there a fucking emp todaya Jul 03 23:22:34 LiraNuna: yupp Jul 03 23:22:41 lol Jul 03 23:22:46 HOW CAN I LIVE WITHOUT talk.maemo.org ?!!??!?!?! Jul 03 23:22:56 i just got talk.maemo.org to come up Jul 03 23:23:42 ah Jul 03 23:23:48 LiraNuna: better? Jul 03 23:23:49 I just realize all of my ability to contact people relies on a dead every expensive unsupported developer phone Jul 03 23:23:58 <3 Jul 03 23:24:26 timetochange, well, reflashing isn't that bad Jul 03 23:24:33 I don't wana lose my shit Jul 03 23:24:35 that's why I have 4 OSs to back it up on the N900 Jul 03 23:24:39 like what? Jul 03 23:24:41 I had a WSD on every Nokia symbian phone I had, several times with some Jul 03 23:24:47 timetochange, try to just flash the kernel Jul 03 23:24:47 contacts are stored in /home/user Jul 03 23:25:05 what about r&d mode Jul 03 23:25:23 you could try that too Jul 03 23:25:32 I don't really know what would be wrong Jul 03 23:25:35 I didn't do anything to it Jul 03 23:25:37 * Nadley says mfe is not working as I want :s Jul 03 23:29:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_screen_of_death Jul 03 23:31:18 ok, is there an 'better' alternative to N900's default address book/contacts yet? Jul 03 23:32:31 if i plug it into usb is still just keeps restarting Jul 03 23:32:38 and there isn't enough time to mount it Jul 03 23:34:13 LiraNuna, how do I just flash the kernel, and if I do that will I lose anything else? Jul 03 23:34:30 timetochange, see the maemo wiki, and you will not lose anything Jul 03 23:35:30 just the regular directions? Jul 03 23:38:56 so all I do is flasher -r [kernel_image]? Jul 03 23:41:09 ok, is there any alternative to N900's default address book/contacts yet? Jul 03 23:41:49 GPE address book Jul 03 23:43:13 timetochange, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Linux Jul 03 23:45:47 since the data storage for the address book/contacts, calender, notes etc of N900 are standard/open source/ documented, it is possible to develop a python program that reads them, and 'compare' them with linux desktop version, thus synchronizing them. can someone please correct me or confirm this please? Jul 03 23:48:07 is "RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin" the "FIASCO" image? Jul 03 23:49:25 yes Jul 03 23:49:28 anyone know why im getting a caluclating upgrade... failed Jul 03 23:51:22 if i do only the kernel do I still have to do the eMMC image afterward? Jul 03 23:51:45 timetochange, you never have to do eMMC Jul 03 23:51:50 Ideally you never shoud Jul 03 23:52:00 Since it's an emergency procedure. Jul 03 23:52:10 okay, and I was just told that doing this kernel flash will not lose me any data Jul 03 23:52:13 so trying........ Jul 03 23:52:19 this is scary Jul 03 23:52:20 lol Jul 03 23:52:34 /home/user shouldn't be affected by a fiasco reflash Jul 03 23:53:02 ill just loose all the apps and their settings? Jul 03 23:53:33 since the data storage for the address book/contacts, calender, notes etc of N900 are standard/open source/ documented, it is possible to develop a python program that reads them, and 'compare' them with linux desktop version, thus synchronizing them. can someone please correct me or confirm this please? Jul 03 23:53:50 timetochange, assuming their settings are in /home/user/., no Jul 03 23:53:59 you won't lose their settings Jul 03 23:54:21 with the kernel only option, I lose nothing right? Jul 03 23:54:34 yes Jul 03 23:54:37 okay Jul 03 23:54:40 only the kernel :) Jul 03 23:55:02 wow that was fast Jul 03 23:55:10 omfg hope it starts Jul 03 23:55:34 AHF CUK Jul 03 23:55:39 rebooted again Jul 03 23:55:44 infinite reboot cycle again Jul 03 23:56:34 hmm Jul 03 23:56:41 I really need to make a call Jul 03 23:56:43 try flashing a framebuffer enabled kernel Jul 03 23:56:49 to see what's causing the problem Jul 03 23:56:59 sudo flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin --flash-only=kernel -f -R Jul 03 23:57:00 i did this ^^ Jul 03 23:57:10 Calculating upgrade... Failed Jul 03 23:57:10 The following packages have unmet dependencies: Jul 03 23:57:10 python2.5-minimal: Depends: pymaemo-optify but it is not going to be installed Jul 03 23:57:10 E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages. Jul 03 23:57:18 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/kernel-framebuffer/2.6.28-20101501+0m5-framebuffer1/ Jul 03 23:57:31 anyone know whats wrong? I cant seem to do an apt-get dist-upgrade Jul 03 23:57:36 timetochange, sec, I'll unpack it for you Jul 03 23:59:20 uploading Jul 04 00:00:27 timetochange, http://mohammadag.ucoz.com/zImage-framebuffer.bin Jul 04 00:00:41 hmm Jul 04 00:00:43 nevermind :/ Jul 04 00:00:51 it uses a different extraversion Jul 04 00:00:55 it won't find modules Jul 04 00:01:08 oh Jul 04 00:01:19 um Jul 04 00:01:31 what should I do? Jul 04 00:02:09 or maybe I should ask this first, does maemo have a standard/open source/ documented storage for the address book/contacts, calender, notes etc? Jul 04 00:02:41 timetochange, you could flash the whole device, contacts should stay there, but you'll lose apps Jul 04 00:03:06 is there a way to get this framebuffer thing working - it will show me what's wrong right? Jul 04 00:03:17 yes Jul 04 00:03:19 hmm Jul 04 00:03:20 sec Jul 04 00:03:24 I'll compile a kernel for you Jul 04 00:03:30 thanks a lot Jul 04 00:03:33 xnt14, ty for the scratchbox :p Jul 04 00:08:04 hmmm Jul 04 00:08:12 i've just noticed that there is java for maemo Jul 04 00:08:37 yup Jul 04 00:08:45 there's also netbeans xD Jul 04 00:10:11 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53514&highlight=netbeans Jul 04 00:10:35 shameless advertising Jul 04 00:11:57 promising application: http://www.hallysonluiz.com/maemo/?p=18 Jul 04 00:12:31 MohammadAG lol Jul 04 00:16:25 i'm not sure if anybody remebers when i was talking some time ago about my idea of OTA sync with phone Jul 04 00:16:28 including files Jul 04 00:17:09 btw. did i mention that i'm amazed with battery life when i switched my phone to 2g only mode Jul 04 00:17:22 it's like 2x longer Jul 04 00:18:15 Hows it going MohammadAG? Jul 04 00:19:21 timetochange, still compiling Jul 04 00:19:55 great Jul 04 00:20:06 timetochange, done, copying over Jul 04 00:20:30 jacekowski, 3g is so bad for always-on :) Jul 04 00:20:59 * MohammadAG has 3 batteries ;p Jul 04 00:21:09 * ShadowJK has original nokia and 2400mAh mugen :D Jul 04 00:22:04 1320 x 3 = 3960 <-- me, 3720 ---> you Jul 04 00:22:06 :P Jul 04 00:22:37 hmm Jul 04 00:22:47 I guess I lost mAhs when swapping batteries and rebooting Jul 04 00:22:48 bleh Jul 04 00:22:48 I still haven't started writing my hotswapbattery.sh script, and I don't know if SpeedEvil has tried it either, so I don't swap them :P Jul 04 00:22:49 xD Jul 04 00:23:16 I need hibernate-like functionality :/ Jul 04 00:23:36 I'd settle for ability to change battery while on usb power :) Jul 04 00:23:55 wouldn't mind that too Jul 04 00:25:35 i doubt that charger chip can take that Jul 04 00:26:01 http://mohammadag.ucoz.com/zImage-fb-omap1.bin timetochange Jul 04 00:26:09 that, in theory, should work Jul 04 00:26:20 okay, use it the exact same way? Jul 04 00:26:24 (i.e it should work with the existing modules) Jul 04 00:26:34 but it won't automagically fix your device :) Jul 04 00:26:38 yeah Jul 04 00:26:41 its probably deliberately set like that :) like all the same old nokia phones, never allow you to run off ac power without a battery.. unless you have an ancient/hacked nokia phone Jul 04 00:26:49 flasher-3.5 -k zImage-fb-omap1.bin -f -R Jul 04 00:26:57 instead of -F? Jul 04 00:27:05 cause it is 1.7megs instead 170some Jul 04 00:27:06 does maemo have a standard/open source/ documented storage for the address book/contacts, calender, notes etc? Jul 04 00:27:07 psycho_oreos: power consumption of phone is higher than charger can take Jul 04 00:27:09 jacekowski, dunno, DocScrutinizer is the EE here and I asked him to look at the pretty graphs in the charger datasheet, and he said something like "can't see why not" to the question if charger could supply system power Jul 04 00:27:20 timetochange, it's only a kernel image Jul 04 00:27:39 I used -F before Jul 04 00:27:49 ShadowJK: it's using battery to keep voltage stable Jul 04 00:28:00 We can stabilize power consumption a bit by turning off wifi and cellmo and keeping screen on (steady constant load) Jul 04 00:28:05 Yeah that's also my concern Jul 04 00:28:08 jacekowski, bleh Jul 04 00:28:13 But the situation is much better than with N8x0 Jul 04 00:28:23 There's an actual regulator inside the charging circuitry this time Jul 04 00:28:24 timetochange, -F for fiascos, -k for kernel images Jul 04 00:28:49 any change in load and charger can start doing strange things Jul 04 00:29:15 and other thing is Jul 04 00:29:16 hallyn: actually I did a first quick & dirty test yesterday. Seems device continues at least 1s after removing battery, until BME (?) notices the change and hard shuts down the system Jul 04 00:29:32 DocScrutinizer: i think it's charger chip Jul 04 00:29:32 okay i see text now Jul 04 00:29:44 but its dark as shit and goes fast Jul 04 00:29:44 DocScrutinizer: i mean - it's designed to deliver constant current Jul 04 00:30:03 DocScrutinizer: it can't so starts to raise to voltage untill charge termination voltage Jul 04 00:30:12 jacekowski: why should charger chip shut down when cell is removed. It wouldn't even know how to detect Jul 04 00:30:16 We can program the charger to do this: Charge at 1250mA, reduce charging current to keep voltage below 4.2V. So, as long as the consumption is below 1250mA, the charger chip will be trying to maintain 4.2V as good as it can.. Jul 04 00:30:24 jacekowski, you're thinking nimh Jul 04 00:30:43 jacekowski: nope, it's designed to provide a cureent-limited voltage-limited power Jul 04 00:30:45 what do I do MohammadAG, I can't see what it says right before it reboots... Jul 04 00:31:12 nimh is charged with constant current until negative or zero deltaV Jul 04 00:31:33 well, we can use i2cset to tell charger whatever we want Jul 04 00:31:37 and that'd basically overvolt on battery removal :) Jul 04 00:31:40 and stop bme Jul 04 00:32:00 yes Jul 04 00:32:07 I'll do that in a minute Jul 04 00:32:14 stay tuned Jul 04 00:32:18 timetochange, get a camcorder :) Jul 04 00:32:34 seriously? Jul 04 00:32:34 but i don't believe that charger chip can keep voltage stable to keep phone running Jul 04 00:32:55 timetochange, well, there's no way to slow it down so :) Jul 04 00:32:57 Yeah my plan would be to disable termination in charger, set current to max, step up regulation voltage until the flow into the empty battery is as close to 0 as possible, and then try swap Jul 04 00:33:02 I don't have one.....spent all my cash on n900 Jul 04 00:33:06 timetochange, that's what I would do anyways Jul 04 00:33:13 oh :/ Jul 04 00:33:42 (shutdown wifi, bluetooth, cellmo before the attempt) Jul 04 00:33:45 it seems to be happening a bit after the text stops Jul 04 00:33:54 like when the dots are going back and forth Jul 04 00:33:58 jacekowski: it can deliver 1050mA. Thant's enough in the most cases Jul 04 00:34:05 yeah, so xorg starts Jul 04 00:34:10 and for sure it's stable enough Jul 04 00:34:12 dots going back and forth...... Jul 04 00:34:15 *RESTART* Jul 04 00:34:22 DocScrutinizer, I thought it could do 1250? Jul 04 00:34:53 err, not sure Jul 04 00:34:55 wait, it doedsn't do it at a consistent time Jul 04 00:35:05 it is doing it sooner and sooner now Jul 04 00:35:37 now it got through to xorg again Jul 04 00:35:47 MohammadAG, any ideas? Jul 04 00:36:28 timetochange: what's your problem? Jul 04 00:36:33 sometimes it restarts right after it gets to camera which is after a line called USER Jul 04 00:36:41 DocScrutinizer my phone doesn't work at all out of nowhere Jul 04 00:36:53 phone app would unexpected quit so i rebooted Jul 04 00:36:56 and it hasnt booted since Jul 04 00:36:56 * DocScrutinizer sighs Jul 04 00:36:58 just reboots itself Jul 04 00:37:06 i really need to make a call too Jul 04 00:37:09 *some* Jul 04 00:37:24 timetochange: you tried to reflash it? Jul 04 00:37:34 well, just the kernel part Jul 04 00:37:38 I'd rather not lose everything Jul 04 00:37:38 timetochange: and please STOP experimenting NOW Jul 04 00:38:07 ok, you flashed jernel with empty or weak battery Jul 04 00:38:10 DocScrutinizer: i'm not worried about current as such, but is it able to react fast enough with changes of load Jul 04 00:38:24 now you borked system, and it probably won't charge anymore Jul 04 00:38:36 DocScrutinizer: and because everything in there is switchmode load will change quite fast Jul 04 00:38:40 I didn't experiment with anything Jul 04 00:38:43 jacekowski: I'd hope it is Jul 04 00:39:06 what? Jul 04 00:39:11 I fucked up my battery? Jul 04 00:39:25 * MohammadAG doubts that Jul 04 00:39:27 same Jul 04 00:39:30 what are you saying? Jul 04 00:39:35 I really would love some help Jul 04 00:39:46 more* MohammadAG has been helping me a lot already Jul 04 00:39:50 timetochange: you just mentioned you repeatedly tried to boot it, which runs battery even more flat Jul 04 00:40:05 well, emergency charge should kick in Jul 04 00:40:11 yeah, I have no idea how much battery i have and when i plug it in it just continually reboots Jul 04 00:40:25 jacekowski: for some reason it doesn't Jul 04 00:40:31 so it's not flat enough for emergency charge Jul 04 00:41:04 so if I reflash the whole thing, what all will i lose? Jul 04 00:41:08 jacekowski: seems emergency charge is just enough to make a *working* system boot. But it's not enough for NOLO to finish a good flash Jul 04 00:41:25 timetochange: basically few Jul 04 00:41:36 few what? Jul 04 00:41:43 all the customizations I've done? Jul 04 00:41:44 I think what happens is that emergency charge is enough to boot nolo, and nolo then kills the charge and boots the system, and fail Jul 04 00:41:49 that and apps Jul 04 00:41:54 some apps you need to reinstall, some desktop settings Jul 04 00:42:02 hmm, it looks like there is a quite huge cap on vbus Jul 04 00:42:02 don't flash emmc Jul 04 00:42:23 well I really need to use the phone Jul 04 00:42:25 and if schematics is accurate in that matter Jul 04 00:42:26 maybe R&D mode? Jul 04 00:42:30 * MohammadAG needs to dump his rootfs Jul 04 00:42:37 jacekowski: sure Jul 04 00:42:40 can i see exactly where it reboots with that? Jul 04 00:42:48 it might be enough to run wireless of it Jul 04 00:43:03 timetochange, you could try to disable the watchdog, if an apps is killing X or something Jul 04 00:43:19 jacekowski: we'll learn in a short while Jul 04 00:43:20 that would make it repeatedly reboot? Jul 04 00:43:26 jacekowski, you want to run wifi without battery? Jul 04 00:43:48 ShadowJK: well, that cap is big enough to to possibly power 3g Jul 04 00:43:49 the problem is you are running emergency mode here in channel, so I can't finish my test :-P Jul 04 00:44:02 timetochange, flasher-3.5 --enable-rd-mode --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset Jul 04 00:44:29 jacekowski, well I wouldn't risk it Jul 04 00:44:37 jacekowski, my goal would just be to change the battery quickly Jul 04 00:44:40 i'm saying possibly because i'm not sure how much voltage drop can phone take Jul 04 00:44:49 2.8 Jul 04 00:44:51 timetochange: how far does boot proceed, how long does it take til reboot? Jul 04 00:45:08 but if it will get charged to 4.1 Jul 04 00:45:11 MohammadAG: please don't hurry Jul 04 00:45:14 well it is confusing because sometimes it only gets to right after "USER" I see a few seconds of camera or something Jul 04 00:45:17 DocScrutinizer, i gave him a framebuffer enabled kernel, it should show where it reboots Jul 04 00:45:25 but it usually gets past xorg Jul 04 00:45:29 where the dots go back and forth Jul 04 00:45:42 yep, props to MohammadAG Jul 04 00:45:49 ok, dudes, I see you'll feature it out Jul 04 00:45:56 ttyl Jul 04 00:46:00 DocScrutinizer: going back to bme thing Jul 04 00:46:12 DocScrutinizer: i was thinking about reimplementing charging in kernel itself Jul 04 00:46:31 k just issued your command Jul 04 00:46:35 says it is in R&D mode Jul 04 00:46:46 try to boot it up Jul 04 00:46:47 r&d mode? :) Jul 04 00:47:02 jacekowski, so many things you need to touch :/ Jul 04 00:47:03 trying to steal trade secrets? Jul 04 00:47:03 Macer: research&development Jul 04 00:47:03 oh, unplug it? Jul 04 00:47:12 huh? Jul 04 00:47:13 or flasher-3.5 -R Jul 04 00:47:20 i know jacekowski Jul 04 00:47:28 ShadowJK: yeah, but it should be able to charge in acting dead state Jul 04 00:47:30 just never knew it had one :) Jul 04 00:47:45 Macer, http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode Jul 04 00:47:59 the fookin key lights are blinking all weird Jul 04 00:48:01 ShadowJK: or in cases like this one where you end up in endless loop Jul 04 00:48:07 timetochange, that's part of R&D mode Jul 04 00:48:11 oh Jul 04 00:48:14 N900: The keyboard backlight behind the left and right side of the keyboard flickers in response to system activity. Jul 04 00:48:19 ideally if kernel would provide just emergency charging Jul 04 00:48:20 i dont see anything Jul 04 00:48:30 it got to the blinking dots for a sec Jul 04 00:48:33 and i think it shut off Jul 04 00:48:33 so kernel starts charging @100mA Jul 04 00:48:46 timetochange, check the lights, if they're off it's off Jul 04 00:48:48 and then BME takes over Jul 04 00:49:12 hmm Jul 04 00:49:14 and in case of BME failure OS shouldn't reboot Jul 04 00:49:14 well after USER Jul 04 00:49:15 OMFG Jul 04 00:49:17 all I see is dsme Jul 04 00:49:19 second try it booted to desktop Jul 04 00:49:24 lol Jul 04 00:49:28 okay, now need to figure out what it was before turning off again Jul 04 00:49:37 wow about 50 reboots only drained the battery a bit Jul 04 00:49:45 btw, the first reboot is only because of fbcon Jul 04 00:49:50 it's quite unstable for some reason Jul 04 00:49:53 I owe you big time MohammadAG Jul 04 00:50:31 jacekowski, without anything touching the charger, it charges at 100mA Jul 04 00:50:35 timetochange, heh, np :P Jul 04 00:50:42 what do you recommend now Jul 04 00:50:45 ShadowJK: and nolo kills it Jul 04 00:50:50 so next time i reboot i dont have this again Jul 04 00:51:02 ShadowJK: so if you have that reboot problem you can't charge Jul 04 00:51:10 mm :/ Jul 04 00:51:11 next time you reboot it will boot up, just find out why dsme is trying to reboot it Jul 04 00:51:12 you disabled the watchdog? Jul 04 00:51:17 yes Jul 04 00:51:24 tbh on device like that Jul 04 00:51:26 maybe ill run health check Jul 04 00:51:30 no-charging - Disables charging via USB. BME will still running in background. Jul 04 00:51:33 jacekowski: aha. Any detailed analysis why that is ? Jul 04 00:51:40 haha the keyboard blinking is actually pretty l33g Jul 04 00:51:40 english fail Jul 04 00:51:40 t Jul 04 00:51:41 not really recommended, but it's the software watchdog Jul 04 00:51:58 Macer, lol someone edited that, I had it written correctly iirc Jul 04 00:52:05 oh, still get "internal error, phone application closed" Jul 04 00:52:07 :) Jul 04 00:52:08 cant use phone yet Jul 04 00:52:10 software watchdog - it reboots device if "critical" programs fail? Jul 04 00:52:18 Macer, i guess it's missing a be :p Jul 04 00:52:23 ShadowJK, yes Jul 04 00:52:26 ShadowJK: that's wrong Jul 04 00:52:32 hildon-desktop is "critical" Jul 04 00:52:33 ShadowJK: it should be done differently Jul 04 00:52:35 and possibly an "in the" Jul 04 00:52:54 Macer, feel free to edit it Jul 04 00:53:01 I just cba right now :P Jul 04 00:53:01 jacekowski, what is wrong? Jul 04 00:53:06 kernel should be able to provide emergency set of features on device like that Jul 04 00:53:06 haha Jul 04 00:53:07 yeah exactly Jul 04 00:53:11 so you can still make a phone call Jul 04 00:53:12 i can edit it? Jul 04 00:53:15 if everything else fails Jul 04 00:53:15 oh and by USB it should say microUSB Jul 04 00:53:20 can't follow your chaos Jul 04 00:53:20 Macer, doh :p Jul 04 00:53:21 * ptl dizzy Jul 04 00:53:31 i dont think i actually have a maemo.org acct :) Jul 04 00:53:35 it's bad design in terms of stuff that would have to go into kernel Jul 04 00:53:40 Macer, make one Jul 04 00:53:51 jacekowski: then go ahead write a kernel with X Jul 04 00:53:54 Oh actually Jul 04 00:53:55 Macer, ugh, lazy, I'll edit it myself Jul 04 00:53:57 MohammadAG: maybe when i get home. i have a killer headache now Jul 04 00:53:59 Now I remember Jul 04 00:54:04 DocScrutinizer: well, there is KMS already Jul 04 00:54:07 flasher-3.0? LOL Jul 04 00:54:08 can you enable r&d mode without reflashing the fiasco? or is it a necessity to flash with it? Jul 04 00:54:25 the default regulation voltage is 3.7V, but the flashing process wants nearly full battery... so it might not be nolo fucking it up, but the default charge params fucking it up Jul 04 00:54:33 no you don't need to flash with it Jul 04 00:55:03 ShadowJK, was that directed to me? ta Jul 04 00:55:06 hahaha Jul 04 00:55:06 sorry Jul 04 00:55:07 does anyone recall what both lights on the side refer to? Jul 04 00:55:10 Macer, edited Jul 04 00:55:23 one's for kernel messages, can't recall what the other one is Jul 04 00:55:24 * DocScrutinizer back to TV, it's too demanding to follow this discussion(s) Jul 04 00:55:28 MohammadAG: on keyboard? Jul 04 00:55:34 jacekowski, yes Jul 04 00:55:39 (charger can unattended, unprogrammed, bring voltage up to 3.7, but nolo refuses to flash below some unknown voltage higher than 3.7) Jul 04 00:56:01 MohammadAG: i had that after i put it in R&D mode Jul 04 00:56:13 just r&d without any flags Jul 04 00:56:16 jacekowski, yes, I know, I'm just wondering what each of the lights refer to Jul 04 00:56:26 again, one is for kernel messages Jul 04 00:56:29 the initfs in N8x0 was more robust :) Jul 04 00:56:32 can't remember what the other is for Jul 04 00:56:42 But people whined and it got removed :( Jul 04 00:56:58 "No initfs \o/" <- meh Jul 04 00:57:17 (says that in nolo btw) Jul 04 00:57:23 lol Jul 04 00:57:25 reboot shouldn't be only method to recover after failure Jul 04 00:57:30 MohammadAG: jacekowski isn't in the mood to listen/read today. As it seems you aren't Jul 04 00:57:40 DocScrutinizer, err? Jul 04 00:57:44 DocScrutinizer: ??? Jul 04 00:57:56 wtf? Jul 04 00:58:10 i'm listening to one of many touhou versions Jul 04 00:58:28 http://pastebin.com/sAgzSJQf okay, did a dmesg Jul 04 00:59:07 seems like phone is the only app that wont start - crashes right away Jul 04 00:59:24 is there a way to try to start phone from the command line to see why it wont start? Jul 04 00:59:28 yes Jul 04 00:59:34 start commandline Jul 04 00:59:38 root? Jul 04 00:59:38 and start phone app Jul 04 00:59:39 no Jul 04 00:59:48 "start phone app" Jul 04 00:59:49 really? Jul 04 00:59:57 not very linuxy Jul 04 01:00:09 i said what you have to do Jul 04 01:00:12 not how to do it Jul 04 01:00:15 lol Jul 04 01:00:18 oh Jul 04 01:00:21 that's what i was asking Jul 04 01:00:25 start phone app isn't going to work Jul 04 01:00:26 how do you start from cmdline Jul 04 01:00:26 I'd investigate dsme's dir in /var Jul 04 01:00:27 lol Jul 04 01:00:34 I don't remember where it is :s Jul 04 01:00:47 Oh, /var/lib/dsme/ Jul 04 01:00:50 cat the files in there Jul 04 01:00:58 start phone app isn't going to work Jul 04 01:00:59 what he said Jul 04 01:01:06 rtcom-call-ui is the binary afaik Jul 04 01:01:18 /var/lib/dsme/stats/ Jul 04 01:01:29 my idea for error handling would be that it tries to restart failed "service" Jul 04 01:01:41 then it fails back to emergency mode Jul 04 01:01:44 if it fails, it should stfu Jul 04 01:01:59 falls back* Jul 04 01:02:11 and notifies user Jul 04 01:02:16 not just reboots in middle of call Jul 04 01:02:22 I was positively surprised that the device doesn't reset when you reach such low battery level (after having killed bme) that cellmo no longer works :) Jul 04 01:02:23 or in middle of boot Jul 04 01:02:32 indeed Jul 04 01:02:50 for stats Jul 04 01:02:51 ShadowJK, yeah, cellmo shuts down first, then the rest of the device follows Jul 04 01:02:56 "read error: is a directory" Jul 04 01:02:59 when the cellmo shuts down I just halt the device quickly Jul 04 01:03:10 er wait Jul 04 01:03:12 newb moment Jul 04 01:03:17 lol Jul 04 01:03:28 timetochange: remove SIM Jul 04 01:03:33 then reboot Jul 04 01:03:44 I've lifeguard resets and lifeguardreboots .bak for both Jul 04 01:03:45 that's why ideally kernel should keep all phone functionality separate from everything else Jul 04 01:03:55 DocScrutinizer did you miss it i got it booted! Jul 04 01:03:57 timetochange, lifeguardreboots Jul 04 01:04:05 and if phone functionality fails then it can reboot Jul 04 01:04:18 everything else is not critical and it should try to recover Jul 04 01:05:04 dude Jul 04 01:05:09 IRC is critical Jul 04 01:05:14 timetochange: have you noticed I usually think about what suggest Jul 04 01:05:20 phone is less critical :) Jul 04 01:05:27 LOL Jul 04 01:05:46 irc is safe on screen on my server Jul 04 01:05:48 okay it lists browser as 1, lidon-desktop as 1, hildon home as 8, a few othe rminor ones, and camera-ui as 44, systemui at 243, and mafw-lastfm 360 (uninstalled that a long time ago) Jul 04 01:06:02 10x Faster than p2p, secure, anon, movies tv music apps all free, http://www.t0rrentday.com now open for registration. Jul 04 01:06:14 DocScrutinizer51, spambot ^ Jul 04 01:06:18 hah Jul 04 01:06:21 how could you tell Jul 04 01:06:25 timetochange, is that lifeguardreboots or lifeaguardresets Jul 04 01:06:26 i don't think so Jul 04 01:06:31 I'm just pinging him Jul 04 01:06:34 restarts* Jul 04 01:06:34 he's just an idiot Jul 04 01:06:47 timeless, the reboots is more interesting Jul 04 01:06:59 lifeguard_reboots Jul 04 01:07:04 resets shows systemui: 23 Jul 04 01:07:06 wrong tab? Jul 04 01:07:23 there is just restarts and resets Jul 04 01:07:33 oh Jul 04 01:07:50 Right, so it's systemui that crashes Jul 04 01:08:00 hmm, and phone must depend on that?... Jul 04 01:08:24 I'm not sure hwat systemui does, it's maybe the thing that appears when you press powerbutton Jul 04 01:08:27 it shouldn't reboot the whole damn device Jul 04 01:08:27 ShadowJK: besides, irc depends on phone Jul 04 01:08:33 ShadowJK, yes Jul 04 01:08:43 i really like qubes design Jul 04 01:08:45 that's not critical! Jul 04 01:08:50 http://qubes-os.org/ Jul 04 01:08:56 something like that but in smaller scale Jul 04 01:08:57 killall systemui doesn't reboot the menu afaik Jul 04 01:09:12 so every part is separate in terms of security as well Jul 04 01:09:12 s/menu/device/ Jul 04 01:09:13 MohammadAG meant: killall systemui doesn't reboot the device afaik Jul 04 01:09:51 Maybe it does actually need several restarts before it becomes a reboot :) Jul 04 01:09:57 rtcom-call-ui just returns and does nothing btw Jul 04 01:10:22 nah Jul 04 01:10:26 killall -9 systemui Jul 04 01:10:34 and it restarted Jul 04 01:10:56 try: while true; do killall -11 systemui ; sleep 1 ; done Jul 04 01:11:01 and it looks like it was dsme job Jul 04 01:11:05 (that wasn to jacekowski) Jul 04 01:11:09 -n Jul 04 01:11:11 I'm running healthcheck a while Jul 04 01:11:34 no offence to its author, but healthcheck is mostly a toy in this circumstance :D Jul 04 01:11:44 I can see that Jul 04 01:11:45 qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - core dumped Jul 04 01:11:48 oh ffs Jul 04 01:13:43 so was that the real name of the phone app MohammadAG? Jul 04 01:14:41 lego harry potter Jul 04 01:14:58 lol Jul 04 01:15:08 timetochange, yes, rtcom-call-ui is the phone app's name Jul 04 01:15:15 systemui is the menu that pops down Jul 04 01:15:28 assuming it shouldn't reboot, I'd purge and reinstall systemui Jul 04 01:15:35 okay, well if i try that in the terminal Jul 04 01:15:38 it just returns Jul 04 01:15:42 doesnt try to boot phone app Jul 04 01:15:54 yeah I noticed that here too Jul 04 01:15:59 how do I reinstall system UI? Jul 04 01:16:01 same with rtcom-messaging-ui Jul 04 01:16:08 apt-get --reinstall install systemui Jul 04 01:16:09 timetochange: why dont you just reflash and start from scratch? Jul 04 01:16:14 seems easier Jul 04 01:16:16 should i back anything up first? Jul 04 01:16:29 for systemui? no, it's just one menu Jul 04 01:16:43 For reflash: yes Jul 04 01:16:52 well I trust that MohammadAG has correctly determined the problem to be with systemui, Macer Jul 04 01:17:09 timetochange: well. just saying Jul 04 01:17:19 there may be other underlying issues Jul 04 01:17:30 Things that modify systemui? :) Jul 04 01:17:37 just throwing that out there :) Jul 04 01:17:49 But yeah, reflash is easiest Jul 04 01:17:52 well it must have been modified by something else in the first place.. Jul 04 01:18:01 unless you want to save data, in which case you'd backup and then flash :D Jul 04 01:18:15 couldnt find package systemui? Jul 04 01:18:18 i mean. all this time you have been fiddling around.. you'd have been done reflashing and reinstalling a long time ago Jul 04 01:18:37 timetochange, ShadowJK did, not me :) Jul 04 01:18:40 no way, I've a lot of shit on here .....i should probably back up right now Jul 04 01:18:45 :) but it is good to learn Jul 04 01:19:05 I just want to make a phone clal man Jul 04 01:19:06 hah Jul 04 01:19:15 hmm Jul 04 01:19:17 sec Jul 04 01:19:34 then go to settings and use the backup app Jul 04 01:19:45 reflash Jul 04 01:19:48 restore Jul 04 01:20:05 k Jul 04 01:20:07 osso-systemui Jul 04 01:20:14 is the package name for /usr/bin/systemui Jul 04 01:20:25 so apt-get --reinstall install osso-sytemui Jul 04 01:20:29 * Macer marks time Jul 04 01:20:30 err Jul 04 01:20:32 systemui Jul 04 01:21:00 err SIM Jul 04 01:21:31 well it worked Jul 04 01:21:32 foreca Jul 04 01:21:36 but phone stil instantly crashes Jul 04 01:21:57 * DocScrutinizer shakes head, sighs, and wanders off Jul 04 01:22:56 i need to get home and set up this debian installer thumb drive and get my dam artigo up and running with its new hd Jul 04 01:23:26 i miss my little beast of a dedicated shell/dns Jul 04 01:24:03 DocScrutinizer, dude he wants to make a phonecall, removing the sim isn't going to help that Jul 04 01:24:14 hahahaha Jul 04 01:24:32 ShadowJK: dude, don't you think I could know what I'm talking about Jul 04 01:25:03 oh, you're still recommending sim removal? Jul 04 01:25:09 there is always option b and c... ask a neighbor to use their phone or find a pay phone Jul 04 01:25:10 I tried that several times when it didnt boot Jul 04 01:25:14 Well since removing SIM is a very unintuitive method of making a phone call, you should probably elaborate as to why this would help :) Jul 04 01:25:33 ShadowJK: LOL Jul 04 01:25:56 ShadowJK: I diagnosed a case of instant phoneui crash to a root cause of a garbled contact in SIM storage Jul 04 01:26:10 well maybe if i could start the phone from command line i could see what the problem is Jul 04 01:26:51 and now just go on with bashing my recommendations, while I get my popcorn Jul 04 01:26:52 timetochange: im telling you. just use the backup app and back up your stuff and reflash it and restore it.. takes 10 mins .. longer than ive been back watching you try to find out how to fix what sounds like a ruined phone Jul 04 01:26:56 MohammadAG, do you think after reinstalling systemui i should reboot for changes to take effect? Jul 04 01:27:18 okay Macer, now that I've it booted and I've backed up Jul 04 01:27:25 I won't lose anything, right? Jul 04 01:27:26 DocScrutinizer, so the conclusion would be that he can't make a call with that Sim in N900? Jul 04 01:27:44 that is like asking a surgeon if you are going to die Jul 04 01:27:47 i can actually open the contacts program and edit contacts Jul 04 01:27:53 fear is the mind killer Jul 04 01:27:59 pee into the wind Jul 04 01:28:09 I'm not longer fearful now that I've backed up Jul 04 01:28:20 but I'm curious what that backup doesn't cover Jul 04 01:28:34 timetochange, you should reboot to see if it worked Jul 04 01:28:44 also, disable R&D mode to see that it _ACTUALLY_ worked Jul 04 01:28:46 anyways Jul 04 01:28:55 that would fix boot up issues, but not phone startup ones Jul 04 01:29:02 I suggest you reflash Jul 04 01:29:47 reflash wouldn't fix sim storage, right Jul 04 01:29:53 i might as well try to reboot first though eh Jul 04 01:30:48 (derp of course the menu doesnt come down when i push power button) Jul 04 01:31:30 how do I target an existing Qt project to build for N900? Jul 04 01:31:45 besides, that's a good question why there is script for upstart that handles reboot when bme fails Jul 04 01:31:55 but dsme itself can take care of that itself Jul 04 01:32:29 yeah menu doesnt come down and phone still closes Jul 04 01:32:40 just flash it Jul 04 01:32:44 okay Jul 04 01:32:50 what doesn't the backup cover? Jul 04 01:33:06 i mean, obvious stuff Jul 04 01:33:27 i think it's only covering contacts, calender and stuff Jul 04 01:33:41 calendar Jul 04 01:33:44 yeah, it is that 'stuff' part that I'm unclear about Jul 04 01:33:46 jacekowski, i think it's in the bme upstart script itself Jul 04 01:33:53 ShadowJK: i know Jul 04 01:33:56 ShadowJK: but why Jul 04 01:34:25 ShadowJK: if there is dsme that has capabilities to do it Jul 04 01:34:31 ShadowJK: and it's doing it for other processes Jul 04 01:34:37 ah Jul 04 01:34:42 on N8x0 dsme did it Jul 04 01:35:06 but I'm guessing someone moved it to upstart at some point :) Jul 04 01:35:14 on n900 there is upstart script that tells dsme to reboot device Jul 04 01:36:16 I vaguely recall reading the N900 bme upstart script Jul 04 01:36:30 But what is responsible for doing stuff when bme dies? upstart? Jul 04 01:36:43 upstart detecs that bme died Jul 04 01:36:48 right Jul 04 01:36:50 and tells dsme to reboot Jul 04 01:37:01 Ok, now I follow :) Jul 04 01:37:27 bme doesn't register watchdog with dsme Jul 04 01:37:38 and as you said previous version was doing that Jul 04 01:37:42 So someone wanted to run bme without dsme, or someone familiar with upstart started attempt to deprecate dsme and got no further than bme.. Jul 04 01:38:06 well, bme is constantly talking to dsme anyways Jul 04 01:38:09 I'm trying to use OpenGLES/2 with Qt4 on N900 Jul 04 01:38:15 heh Jul 04 01:38:27 and qmake will not correctly add the includes Jul 04 01:39:03 LiraNuna: maemo-developers Jul 04 01:39:14 oh, there's an actual channel for development? Jul 04 01:39:18 yes Jul 04 01:39:20 You guys are really taken by this whole reverse-engineering of bme Jul 04 01:39:31 #maemo-dev or #maemo-developers Jul 04 01:39:32 jacekowski, it's empty. Jul 04 01:39:34 oh Jul 04 01:39:44 ... Jul 04 01:39:46 both are empty Jul 04 01:39:51 lol Jul 04 01:39:54 hmm Jul 04 01:40:03 LiraNuna: there is one Jul 04 01:40:09 LiraNuna: but i don't remember the name Jul 04 01:40:16 okay, where Jul 04 01:40:19 here Jul 04 01:40:22 on this network Jul 04 01:40:33 -devel perhaps Jul 04 01:40:33 #maemo-devel Jul 04 01:40:35 it's not empty Jul 04 01:40:39 I'm there Jul 04 01:40:49 crowded, no elbow room Jul 04 01:40:53 ah, devel Jul 04 01:40:56 thanks Jul 04 01:54:12 --exclude-from=[path] isnt working in rsync Jul 04 01:55:48 --exclude-from reads exclude pattern from a given "file", not really a "path"... is that the problem? Jul 04 01:56:06 oh i think Jul 04 01:56:09 wonder how to do path Jul 04 01:56:14 like, do you just want --exclude= ? Jul 04 01:56:22 a folder Jul 04 01:56:25 MyDocs Jul 04 01:56:34 --exclude=MyDocs/ then? Jul 04 01:56:49 didnt work Jul 04 01:56:52 unless i need the \ Jul 04 01:57:29 already started the rsync, ill just wait for it and then cancel and hope MyDocs was the last thing to copy Jul 04 01:57:30 heh Jul 04 02:07:16 friggin freenode >:-( Jul 04 02:07:25 ... Jul 04 02:07:27 ~botsnack Jul 04 02:07:28 thanks, DocScrutinizer51 Jul 04 02:07:46 anyway Jul 04 02:08:20 ShadowJK: my N900 is running since 40min without battery now Jul 04 02:08:35 cool Jul 04 02:08:41 /CE bit enabled? Jul 04 02:10:38 I 'll elaborate on it later. Just so much: level down screen brightness, of course disable GSM. 'stop BME' remove battery *fast* (60s) Jul 04 02:11:07 is it ok to swap the n900 batteries while it's being charged on usb? Jul 04 02:14:06 you guys are hardware Jul 04 02:14:09 hardcore* Jul 04 02:14:09 lol Jul 04 02:19:29 DocScrutinizer51: why fast if it's running for 40 minutes? Jul 04 02:20:19 is there a maemo flasher for amd64? Jul 04 02:26:19 is there any official dsme documentation Jul 04 02:26:25 because i found something on the interwebs Jul 04 02:26:34 i mean header files Jul 04 02:26:40 but these seems to be incomplete Jul 04 02:27:07 because i just found message 0x311 that's sent from bme to dsme Jul 04 02:27:13 seriously why doesn't exclude-from= work in rsync? Jul 04 02:27:28 but there is no reference to it in my files Jul 04 02:27:35 timetochange: it does work if you know how to do it Jul 04 02:30:01 oOoOooo Jul 04 02:30:11 https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/dsm-commits/2009-January/thread.html Jul 04 02:31:07 i just found full dsme source code Jul 04 02:36:01 pigeon, not normally Jul 04 02:41:11 WOW Jul 04 02:42:36 does anybody here have n8x0? Jul 04 02:42:40 and it's still here Jul 04 02:43:24 and it is still there? Jul 04 02:44:22 dsmetool --version Jul 04 02:44:35 0.60.1? Jul 04 02:44:43 What is still there, where? Jul 04 02:45:04 ehh Jul 04 02:45:16 s/it\'s/is/ Jul 04 02:45:25 i just need to know version of dsmetool in n8x0 Jul 04 02:46:13 DocScrutinizer51: are you here? Jul 04 02:46:14 0.57.13 Jul 04 02:46:21 Why didn't you say that in the first place Jul 04 02:46:24 OMG Jul 04 02:46:32 temporarily Jul 04 02:46:35 i found full source code for dsme 0.60.1 Jul 04 02:46:44 -- Semi Malinen Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:11:00 +0000 Jul 04 02:47:21 from nokia Jul 04 02:47:29 with everything marked as gpl/lgpl Jul 04 02:47:41 so technicaly we can use it Jul 04 02:47:56 um, yeah Jul 04 02:48:07 dmse was opensourced years ago, and all the interesting things moved into mce? Jul 04 02:48:35 it was? Jul 04 02:48:38 jacekowski: yes? dsme, hmm fine. Nothing new Jul 04 02:49:39 anyway I donno how long I'll be here. My internets gone apeshit. So wazzup? Jul 04 02:49:56 only thing that google is coming up with is https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/dsm-commits/2009-January/000001.html Jul 04 02:51:09 ShadowJK: you're running your device without battery now? Jul 04 02:51:33 No. Jul 04 02:52:11 hahah it switched off after (presumably) 32minute Jul 04 02:52:46 04:08 < DocScrutinizer51> ShadowJK: my N900 is running since 40min without battery now Jul 04 02:53:06 seems I should spend a oneliner to cure those minor annoyances ;-P Jul 04 02:53:23 hmm, that's been a guess Jul 04 02:54:36 anyway I'd say it is quite sufficient to swap cells nevertheless Jul 04 02:55:34 ye Jul 04 02:56:05 * ShadowJK wonders why it doesn't work under regular bme Jul 04 02:56:19 fuel gauge Jul 04 02:56:21 ShadowJK: btw of course bat must be charging when you stop bme :-D Jul 04 02:56:38 eh, why? Jul 04 02:56:44 that probably detects that there is something wrong with battery Jul 04 02:56:50 and bme kills phone Jul 04 02:57:10 ShadowJK: bme detects bat removal (BSI) Jul 04 02:57:27 I was "why" at "bat must be charging" Jul 04 02:58:02 But in asking that question I assumed that after stopping bme you would configure bq24150 to maximum current and disable termination Jul 04 02:58:29 ShadowJK: I did none of these Jul 04 02:58:58 --set-rd-flags=yes-lifeguard-reset Jul 04 02:58:58 is how you turn it back on right? Jul 04 02:59:03 for flasher Jul 04 02:59:12 just reduced system requirements to <100 Jul 04 02:59:23 hm Jul 04 02:59:30 think it could do 200? Jul 04 02:59:45 maybe 200 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 04 02:59:57 2010