**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 27 02:59:56 2010 Jul 27 03:00:54 didnt know expressing an opinion was a criminal offence lolz Jul 27 03:00:59 go rant some where else osama Jul 27 03:01:25 SpeedEvil1: haha Jul 27 03:02:21 SpeedEvil1: best character is zorg :) he is my hero Jul 27 03:02:26 what does fcam have to do with windows95 running on a linux phone? Jul 27 03:02:34 jean baptiste emanuelle zorg Jul 27 03:02:58 lpotter: i was just trying to say that all this linux talk is full of unpractical shit Jul 27 03:03:28 exagerated maybe. unpractical not so much. Jul 27 03:03:35 well, climbing Mt Danali is unpractical too Jul 27 03:03:57 unfinished or abandoned apps....poorly coded apps....et Jul 27 03:04:23 i can understand what you mean by calling a camera app exciting news is odd though... it was like when the iphone had "now with videos" commercials for the newer iphone like they crached the technology :) Jul 27 03:04:39 Macer: exactly Jul 27 03:05:21 unfortunately mameo can only hope in their dreams to be like apple and android Jul 27 03:05:43 i dunno, fcam is more innovative than most apps Jul 27 03:06:10 Osama: well. i believe it can be on par or better .. well. probably not maemo so much now as meego can be Jul 27 03:06:11 lpotter: i fail to see fcam innovative... it's gimmick Jul 27 03:06:13 rant rannnnnnnt Jul 27 03:06:32 i guess you did not read the pdf paper on it then Jul 27 03:06:44 whut? Jul 27 03:06:48 but apple and google have 2 things going for them... apple and google ;) Jul 27 03:07:02 and no, maemo does not want to be like ios or android Jul 27 03:07:05 nokia doesn't seem to know what direction it wants to go with its operating systems Jul 27 03:07:13 yes we do Jul 27 03:07:31 when you have only one phone, you only have one os Jul 27 03:07:43 lpotter: actually , maemo is dead so it doesnt matter what it wants to be...it's dead. simple, aint it? Jul 27 03:07:45 lpotter: android runs on multiple phones and platforms though Jul 27 03:07:47 Macer: os doesnt matter with Qt Jul 27 03:08:13 I am fairly sure maemo isnt dead Jul 27 03:08:17 lpotter: i suppose that is a valid point but just because it is qt doesn't mean that is all their is to it Jul 27 03:08:22 lpotter: read the news lately? Jul 27 03:08:31 news schmews Jul 27 03:08:32 some might argue it wouldn't matter with gtk either. which is what maemo was using wasn't it? Jul 27 03:08:44 distros come and go Jul 27 03:08:46 I also read pigs can fly in some cercumstances Jul 27 03:08:47 simpley Jul 27 03:09:16 OS does matter.... Qt is secondary Jul 27 03:09:19 mabey if u knew 2 shits about linux Jul 27 03:09:30 unix is ios droid uses linux too Jul 27 03:09:46 android uses it as a hal Jul 27 03:09:50 ya, I dont know about linux Jul 27 03:10:02 lpotter talkin to osama Jul 27 03:10:06 ahh ok Jul 27 03:10:09 other than that i don't think the linux part of it really does much Jul 27 03:10:12 he wants to rant and hes dum Jul 27 03:10:14 ;) Jul 27 03:10:19 android is not linux Jul 27 03:10:23 Linux may be great but it aint nothing more than os for geeks Jul 27 03:10:29 lpotter: linux is a kernel ;) Jul 27 03:10:31 uses a linux kernel.. Jul 27 03:10:40 just because it doesn't have a gnu base doesn't mean it isn't linux Jul 27 03:10:41 no, it uses a fork of linux Jul 27 03:10:56 GUYS....who gives a fuck? Jul 27 03:11:06 we do, obviously Jul 27 03:11:08 Osama: we do Jul 27 03:11:14 LETS RANT OSAMA Jul 27 03:11:29 asj: right... the all 4 of you on earth care...LOLZ Jul 27 03:11:35 but i am in disagreement with you lpotter as far as only worrying about one phone in regards to the iphone Jul 27 03:11:53 n900 is the only phone thus far running maemo5 and probably the last Jul 27 03:12:34 Macer: probably???? its a fucken done deal mate Jul 27 03:12:37 but maemo is not nokia's only phone os Jul 27 03:12:52 N900 is as dead as it can be Jul 27 03:12:55 and android runs across multiple platforms and has taken a farily straightforward development path... for some reason though nokia seems to have pretty much released an OS with a short life and then swapped over to meego with intel Jul 27 03:13:11 wow, I am pretty sure my n900 still works fine Jul 27 03:13:35 lpotter: oh I understand that.. but which OSes does nokia have? maemo/meego and symbian Jul 27 03:13:37 LOLZ... right and next year Nokia will come up with yet another OS....called fuckgo Jul 27 03:13:55 with meego being for their smartphones and symbian moving over to the lower/middle end phones Jul 27 03:14:05 Macer: s40 and s30 Jul 27 03:14:08 Macer: symbian^3, s60, s40, maemo, and in the future, meego too Jul 27 03:14:18 GUYS....who gives a fuck? Jul 27 03:14:24 we do Jul 27 03:14:28 lol Jul 27 03:14:29 too many damn OS nokia has...LOLZ Jul 27 03:14:44 they dont have any os Jul 27 03:14:51 the own ovi... right Jul 27 03:14:58 ovi is shit too Jul 27 03:15:00 own that Jul 27 03:15:02 my grandma used to say, dont keep all your eggs in one basket Jul 27 03:15:06 lpotter: i honestly think that maemo is dead.. or at the very least on its way Jul 27 03:15:08 Osama: I don't see andriod running on a $20 throwaway phone in papa new guinea...do you? Jul 27 03:15:26 lpotter: android is linux -- linux being a kernel, which android uses Jul 27 03:15:27 asj: who gives a fuck? Jul 27 03:15:29 woo, pedantic fight Jul 27 03:15:38 ieatlint: :) haha Jul 27 03:15:39 Macer: I dont. but what would I know about maemo Jul 27 03:15:46 Osama: if I lived there, I would :) Jul 27 03:15:50 as long as they keep putting cocaine in the screens idk Jul 27 03:15:58 android is not gnu, etc Jul 27 03:16:08 asj: they can have their cheap s40 fones....fuck developing countries Jul 27 03:16:22 ieatlint: heh. well. it isn't. i suppose you can build gnu apps for it.. which would actually be awesome Jul 27 03:16:38 android is a pretty good OS and would be great if it had apt :) Jul 27 03:16:39 it's spelled, phones, not fones Jul 27 03:16:58 with a gnu based repo for it Jul 27 03:17:03 lpotter: who gives a fuck about spelling? u a teacher or somethin? Jul 27 03:17:26 maybe Jul 27 03:17:29 Macer: yeah, but that would defeat the reasons they chose their sandboxed java system Jul 27 03:17:43 ieatlint: not really. that can still be used for the ui end of it Jul 27 03:17:56 maemo's lack of sandboxing has a real risk of coming around to bite its ass in the future Jul 27 03:18:07 when is the 1st mego fone comin out? Jul 27 03:18:07 Osama: knowledge is power Jul 27 03:18:10 ieatlint: i disagree ;) Jul 27 03:18:26 i love the fact that maemo has stuff i can use in a term Jul 27 03:18:41 something that i always thought was lacking in android Jul 27 03:18:55 android had pico tho.. i can give it that much .. but that was a cyanogen rom Jul 27 03:19:08 so i suppose it is possible but nobody has taken that path Jul 27 03:19:11 Macer: 99.99% of population dont give a flying fuck about terminal Jul 27 03:19:21 Osama: then they can use winmob ;) Jul 27 03:19:26 or get an iphone Jul 27 03:19:33 Macer: nah.... winmob is shit Jul 27 03:19:38 i could put an app promoted to extras that was not malicious, then push out an update that did things like take all the photos off your phone, or start reporting your geo location to me Jul 27 03:19:59 maemo is full of security holes....scary Jul 27 03:19:59 yes, the peer-review is meant to prevent this Jul 27 03:20:03 ieatlint: fair point Jul 27 03:20:17 but i'm somehow not too trusting that a bunch of other geeks sit around reading other's code Jul 27 03:20:25 technically you could do that with any platform, so long as it's hidden well enough Jul 27 03:20:37 ieatlint: who is to say they're not in on it too ? ;) Jul 27 03:20:50 how can an OS thats run by a bunch of pimple faced geeks be taken seriously? Jul 27 03:20:57 Osama: leave, please Jul 27 03:20:57 microlith: typically there's a security system involved -- although you could argue that users will just blindly click through it Jul 27 03:21:12 huh? Jul 27 03:21:13 ieatlint: in the same way Apple missed the tethering app they posted on their store? Jul 27 03:21:20 but you'd get enough going "hey! why does this text editor want to access my gps?" that it could get reported Jul 27 03:21:25 Osama: you're here to troll, obviously. Jul 27 03:21:44 called that like an hour ago Jul 27 03:21:52 Osama: same way major corporations take linux seriously Jul 27 03:22:02 eh, i was referring more to android.. i'm less familiar with iphone out of wilful/blissful ignorance Jul 27 03:22:10 microlith: everybody that has a different opinion from yours is a troll ? Jul 27 03:22:13 microlith: haha. it's nice to have a troll every now and then :) gets everybody all riled up Jul 27 03:22:43 Osama: if you had a valid point, no. but insulting people for no apparent reason, aside from 4chan level OS hate? Jul 27 03:23:00 * ieatlint backtraces Osama and calls the cyber police Jul 27 03:23:06 lpotter: honestly he did have a point in the fact that there are a LOT of abandoned/unfinished apps for linux Jul 27 03:23:25 Macer: just like any other os Jul 27 03:23:26 but unfortunately i suppose that is the way of the "openness" of it all :) Jul 27 03:23:33 Macer: but that has no impact on -Linux- itself Jul 27 03:23:39 look....im not trying to cause shit Jul 27 03:23:41 lpotter: oh i understand that. Jul 27 03:23:47 just pointing out weaknesses Jul 27 03:24:15 Osama: that's not pointing out a weakness, at best it's a strawman. at worst, it's a pointless ad-hominem against a rather large group of people. Jul 27 03:24:19 well, I dont see how having abandonded/unfinished apps is a weakness Jul 27 03:24:45 lpotter: only if you are one of the people who can't code and really want the app ;) Jul 27 03:24:46 can we all agree that maemo is dead? Jul 27 03:24:59 just like having junk car lots is not a weakness Jul 27 03:25:14 bad similie Jul 27 03:25:17 Osama: no, because maemo is not dead Jul 27 03:25:21 can we all agree we're playing nice in this chan? Jul 27 03:25:27 Macer: just befriend more people who can code Jul 27 03:25:30 lpotter: do explain Jul 27 03:25:42 and then encourage them (not nag), and provide positive feedback and suggestions Jul 27 03:25:50 Osama: ok. maemo is not dead. Jul 27 03:26:03 lpotter: very deep mate Jul 27 03:26:05 ieatlint: haha. hi... hey.. you want to come over and watch this game with me and some friends and sift through 10,000 lines of code and fix this for me? Jul 27 03:26:10 thanks, I try to be Jul 27 03:26:18 ieatlint: don't think that would work out :) Jul 27 03:26:22 wtf app are you using that's 10k lines? Jul 27 03:26:29 lpotter: but maemo is dead.... read the news Jul 27 03:26:31 ieatlint: just an example Jul 27 03:26:33 and provide some good booze, and we'll talk Jul 27 03:26:41 the "news" does not know Jul 27 03:26:54 ieatlint: hahahha Jul 27 03:26:55 lpotter: official nokia peole know Jul 27 03:26:58 yeah, if the news reported maemo was dead, people would just ask wtf maemo was Jul 27 03:27:08 the 'news' also gets excited because ios joined 1995 Jul 27 03:27:33 Osama: I would assume we would know Jul 27 03:27:33 i was talking to some higher ups at nokia and they said nobody is working on maemo no more...its all mego from now on Jul 27 03:27:36 lpotter: i'm hoping we get some reporter who confuses iphones with the real ios Jul 27 03:27:54 maemo is like the canadian prime minister.. if he were shot to death it would be in the news for a day or two.. maybe later on too for the funeral and after that the world wouldn't care. if the president of the united states was shot then it would be in the news for months Jul 27 03:28:04 Osama: and you think management really knows? Jul 27 03:28:08 :) Jul 27 03:28:11 Osama: please stop generalizing and stating stereotypes Jul 27 03:28:17 lpotter: some do...the ones i was talkin to Jul 27 03:28:21 but i'm sure people in canada like their PM for the most part Jul 27 03:28:23 lpotter: dude, give it up.. you're talking to a wall Jul 27 03:28:26 Osama: riiight Jul 27 03:28:51 why are you guys so mean spirited can i ask? Jul 27 03:29:01 what have i done to yous? Jul 27 03:29:02 ieatlint: but I miss having troll fights on ./ Jul 27 03:29:11 why are you so blockheaded? Jul 27 03:29:11 Osama: we're bitter because we're stuck on a dead platform Jul 27 03:29:24 but realistically. whether he is trolling or not... i still agree with osama and consider maemo to be on its way out as nokia has honstly pulled most of its support in order to pursue meego with intel & co Jul 27 03:29:29 oh, and we're on irc.. it's implicit that we're angry Jul 27 03:29:33 Osama: well for one you insulted a lot of people that I work with, if indirectly Jul 27 03:29:47 microlith: not intnetionally Jul 27 03:29:50 if you're on irc, you're either angry, looking for warez/credit card numbers, or idling Jul 27 03:30:07 * luke-jr is idling. Jul 27 03:30:07 Osama: you don't call a bunch of developers "pimply faced geeks" unintentionally Jul 27 03:30:11 ieatlint: I beg to differ Jul 27 03:30:16 luke-jr: haha Jul 27 03:30:20 asj: you sound angry Jul 27 03:30:31 microlith: you clearly haven't read BOFH Jul 27 03:30:36 ieatlint: you forgot sex with the underaged Jul 27 03:30:38 microlith: thats the peception out there mate Jul 27 03:30:39 ieatlint: oh he is angry. I can see it from here Jul 27 03:30:48 lpotter: ;p~ Jul 27 03:30:48 Osama: maybe amongst the ignorant Jul 27 03:31:00 Osama: go read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213 for example. Please come back *after* you did Jul 27 03:31:42 DocScrutinizer: i did Jul 27 03:31:51 I'll prepare the stake… Jul 27 03:31:53 ieatlint: I'm definitely angry Jul 27 03:31:57 who wants to get the gasoline? Jul 27 03:31:58 DocScrutinizer: :) i don't understand why you always post that link as though it is something that says "maemo isn't dead" Jul 27 03:32:12 i'm always angry or drunk Jul 27 03:32:21 at the moment, the former -- perhaps because not the latter Jul 27 03:32:24 realistically all it is saying is that apps written in qt for meego are able to be back ported to maemo Jul 27 03:32:28 * lpotter goes back to work on something for maemo Jul 27 03:32:46 there was another question i had....where can i download a crack for the navigation app for n900? can you point me? Jul 27 03:32:55 Osama: gtfo Jul 27 03:33:06 you want news? positive news? Jul 27 03:33:08 how about this then: Jul 27 03:33:16 * Macer drum roll Jul 27 03:33:18 I actually spoke only positively about N900 to someone today Jul 27 03:33:27 maemo is dead, but meego is not, and meego is aiming to provide backwards compatibility with maemo while maemo is providing forwards-compatibility with meego (qt support) Jul 27 03:33:29 Macer: maemo are 5 chars, or an operating system. Tell me what's the exact meaning of 'dead' for a lifeless object, or stfu Jul 27 03:33:31 there used to be a vibrant warez community on symbian.... Jul 27 03:33:56 zomg… ovi maps warez plz Jul 27 03:34:03 i am _pretty sure_ someone is still working on things for maemo Jul 27 03:34:13 lpotter: no Jul 27 03:34:19 really Jul 27 03:34:20 lpotter: who? Jul 27 03:34:24 gofigure Jul 27 03:34:42 lpotter: bugfixes i hope/suspect, but expanding capability... i'd speculate that to be unlikely Jul 27 03:34:44 DocScrutinizer: you can run a lot of w32 apps in windows 2000.. but does that mean you stick with an OS that was released 10 years ago simply because you can run a game in it? the majority of people wish to have a new OS that exploits the capabilities of their hardware. otherwise the world would have stuck with DOS Jul 27 03:34:45 ya, well. how would I know Jul 27 03:34:56 lpotter, maybe all of 5 people. Jul 27 03:35:21 maybe 5 people within 15 meters of me Jul 27 03:35:29 nokia fucked up with n900 Jul 27 03:35:30 dead means that maemo will not truly realize the potential of the hardware because the support for it (official support as well as developers crossing the line) is fading Jul 27 03:35:39 Macer: interesting analogy, because anything you wrote for win2k would work fine in win7 Jul 27 03:35:53 Jumping to Nokia's defense with regards to their treatment of N900 users is, perhaps, a bit blinder-induced. Jul 27 03:35:54 Osama: care to clarify? Jul 27 03:36:02 ieatlint: but not the other way around for some things ;) Jul 27 03:36:30 lpotter: they introduce it to the market and 6 months later say "see u later suckers mego is coming" Jul 27 03:36:34 Macer: true, but my point is that developing for maemo is not a dead end, which is the only concern i'd have with a dead os Jul 27 03:36:38 DocScrutinizer: my definition of a dead OS is an OS that no longer receives official support from the company that released it Jul 27 03:36:57 wtf support? Jul 27 03:37:06 Osama: iphone and android are the same way Jul 27 03:37:11 especially for a mobile OS Jul 27 03:37:30 support as in "how do I find which crappy app eats my cpu and bat"? Jul 27 03:37:30 it's the way of mobile computing right now Jul 27 03:37:32 ieatlint: no....wrong....wrong wrong...not after 5 months Jul 27 03:38:10 DocScrutinizer: no. support as in "how can we write code to make the gles work smoother" Jul 27 03:38:13 DocScrutinizer: cellmo drivers Jul 27 03:38:18 DocScrutinizer: switch to Offline Mode Jul 27 03:38:24 this is digital - not a car that needs oil change every 10.000 Jul 27 03:38:28 nokia is laughing right now....got all the suckers to buy n900 and now kaboom Jul 27 03:38:41 DocScrutinizer: you would think. but an OS finds its refinement with time Jul 27 03:38:55 orly Jul 27 03:39:02 maemo's refinement from nokia's perspective seems to be meego Jul 27 03:39:13 Osama: if that were true, Nokia wouldn't have sent me one free of charge Jul 27 03:39:22 what? Jul 27 03:39:29 Osama: so at least I am pretty sure Nokia isn't intentionally trying to screw people here Jul 27 03:39:29 luke-jr: lucky u mate Jul 27 03:39:49 and seeing as I'm not alone, I think everyone can rest assured that is true Jul 27 03:39:59 so you bought a device with a OS that doesn't perform up to your expectations, and you claim Nokia is obliged to deliver now for, how long did you say? Jul 27 03:40:03 * lpotter sends luke-jr a bill on Nokia's boards' behalf Jul 27 03:40:19 lpotter: I wouldn't have bought one, either. :p Jul 27 03:40:20 1 year minimum Jul 27 03:40:45 Macer: that sounds rather daft Jul 27 03:41:05 Osama: and what makes you so sure Nokia isn't officailly supporting meamo still? Jul 27 03:41:13 DocScrutinizer: the problem is that it met expectations but even more fine tuning and refinement was expected .. new features and innovations that would allow maemo to jump out Jul 27 03:41:18 Osama: one thing I've noticed since buying my N810… is that Nokia never actually seems to advertise anything much for their tablets Jul 27 03:41:33 lpotter: all nokias resources are into meego now....maemo is a dead horse mate Jul 27 03:41:34 and nokia wants to do that in the form of meego Jul 27 03:41:38 I thought they claimed Linux, but I don't see that word anywhere either Jul 27 03:41:42 except in the community Jul 27 03:41:57 distro Jul 27 03:42:02 which imho is just trying to follow the android example of creating a multi platform mobile OS Jul 27 03:42:04 Osama: really. Jul 27 03:42:14 that is successful and gathers hype :) Jul 27 03:42:26 lpotter: take off the fanboy blinders Jul 27 03:42:32 heh Jul 27 03:42:42 Osama: so where do you get your info? Jul 27 03:43:12 * lpotter is not a blind nokia fanboi Jul 27 03:43:17 asj: www.meego.com.... are u living on a deserted island mate? Jul 27 03:43:30 yep. its called australia Jul 27 03:43:35 hahaha Jul 27 03:43:39 lol Jul 27 03:43:46 lpotter: ouch Jul 27 03:43:51 Osama: either you go read that thread to understand maemo/meego compatibility, and you stop stating that "dead horse" shit, or I start getting angry, and you don't want me getting angry Jul 27 03:43:54 yeah that was rough Jul 27 03:44:10 DocScrutinizer: why be mad? Jul 27 03:44:10 Osama is riding a dead horse. Jul 27 03:44:12 :D Jul 27 03:44:17 lpotter: it's not like it's new zealand... Jul 27 03:44:20 * microlith doesn't want DocScrutinizer turning big and green... Jul 27 03:44:38 asj: or even Gilligans Island Jul 27 03:44:56 Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale… Jul 27 03:45:22 lpotter: how do you know it's not...I was promised a 2 hour boat ride... Jul 27 03:45:32 dang it, now I lost all todays code mojo Jul 27 03:46:05 lol Jul 27 03:46:12 lpotter: it's ok. acceptance is one of the final stages Jul 27 03:46:20 :) Jul 27 03:46:22 DocScutinizer: you talk a big game about all this "compatibility" shit lemme ask you a simple question: it's a known fact that all future meego fones will have multitouch capacitive screens and hence apps will not be backwars compatible. your little compatibility shit is out the window mate. Jul 27 03:46:47 Osama, I wouldn't call it a "fact" Jul 27 03:46:50 heh Jul 27 03:46:54 Osama: capacitive sucks. we can implement resistive multitouch Jul 27 03:46:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model Jul 27 03:47:05 wheres the sms html? Jul 27 03:47:05 Nokia seems to be headed that direction themselves, unfortunately Jul 27 03:47:11 Osama: that's like saying you can't use a trackball since it's not a mouse Jul 27 03:47:17 THANK YOU Jul 27 03:47:24 night, fellas Jul 27 03:47:30 HAHAHAHAH Jul 27 03:47:31 But that doesn't precluded other manufacturers from offering something different Jul 27 03:47:37 Or Nokia to shift direction Jul 27 03:47:37 hmmpf. now what I am gonna do Jul 27 03:47:42 lol Jul 27 03:47:48 develop Jul 27 03:47:49 e Jul 27 03:47:50 lpotter: yeah. :/ Jul 27 03:48:00 DocScrutinizer: what if he returns? Jul 27 03:48:01 guess i'll go finish this fedora install or something Jul 27 03:48:06 Still, once bitten, twice shy, three times still naive and four times just damn tired of the bullshit. Jul 27 03:48:13 lpotter: I got a problem you could fix for me :) Jul 27 03:48:28 asj: go ask the Professor Jul 27 03:49:14 awesome. vbox didn't boot this fedora install Jul 27 03:49:19 meh. i'll work on it later or something :) Jul 27 03:49:37 * GAN900 will just continue to con free devices out of Nokia for as long as possible and move on to a company that doesn't hate him as a customer when the opportunity arises. Jul 27 03:49:51 that's not a bad plan Jul 27 03:50:19 opportunist and yet understandably so Jul 27 03:50:32 ya, nokia hates the n900 users so much.. thats why it released PR1.2 Jul 27 03:50:36 Clearly they're not interested in my money (although apparently they like the thousands of ours I've invested in the platform) Jul 27 03:50:48 lpotter, Nokia hates me as a customer. Jul 27 03:50:59 bad credit? Jul 27 03:51:22 Short, half-assed support, continued drift in both hardware and software away from something I want to own. Jul 27 03:51:28 Plus I live in the US. Jul 27 03:51:58 It's the idea that an a half OS project doesn't deserve support, it's very funny Jul 27 03:53:30 Clearly there's a problem when droves of your core contributors are burnt out and tired of your platform and your company. Jul 27 03:53:50 now Meego will be powering automobile computers, lol Jul 27 03:54:07 GAN900: developers always change Jul 27 03:54:15 meego is not nokia, however, though I don't expect you'll see -any- support beyond dealer service for those Jul 27 03:54:29 fine. I'll work on meego stuff now then Jul 27 03:54:34 "I rooted my car!" Jul 27 03:55:04 I still like the community base of Maemo, however scarred it is from Nokia's (lack of) involvement Jul 27 03:55:22 heh Jul 27 03:55:36 ya,because nokia is not involved at all Jul 27 03:55:55 make some pretty good hardware :) Jul 27 03:56:23 microlith: if you only knew what that means in Australian Jul 27 03:56:39 lpotter: I'll assume it's vulgar and be happy Jul 27 03:56:51 asj, so we don't care? Jul 27 03:56:55 asj, good to know. Jul 27 04:01:21 insults flung at Nokia, hmm don't really believe in Karma, but in this case ... Jul 27 04:01:21 could be worse, could be openmoko Jul 27 04:01:22 that kharma Jul 27 04:01:22 that's Jul 27 04:02:34 * peb_ is gone. Gone since Wed Jul 21 19:58:59 2010 Jul 27 04:02:42 what ever, it's all Hindi too me Jul 27 04:02:42 or Sanskrit Jul 27 04:02:42 however you take it Jul 27 04:02:43 ha, I had such hopes in that project Jul 27 04:02:44 oof Jul 27 04:02:45 lotsa netsplit Jul 27 04:03:14 Maemo #1 feature: post pics to facebook within seconds Jul 27 04:04:30 freenode just took a shit Jul 27 04:15:08 freenode severely screwed Jul 27 04:18:58 yigal: what law creates any force for a "TOS" that I've never seen nor met about nor agreed to? Jul 27 04:18:59 it's just a matter that one is putting one's personal information, the framework of one's relations on the line Jul 27 04:19:03 hah Jul 27 04:19:13 so don't put any personal information in Jul 27 04:19:51 DocScrutinizer51: quit it! Jul 27 04:19:56 oh yeah .. 7 mour hours and my 1 movie for my n900 will be done encoding :) Jul 27 04:20:06 it's not possible because by the very nature of FB the nature is personal? Jul 27 04:20:16 nah, let's start the real fun now Jul 27 04:20:32 D no, please let's not Jul 27 04:21:06 the relations one has with everyone Jul 27 04:21:26 owell, my own personal problem with sketchy social networks Jul 27 04:23:10 yigal: like google? Jul 27 04:23:11 haha Jul 27 04:23:32 i'm waiting for the day facebook starts charging its users to use it Jul 27 04:23:37 maybe after they buy out myspace Jul 27 04:23:41 FB in my eyes is more sketch just cause of the CEO Jul 27 04:24:00 meh. i don't use facebook Jul 27 04:24:24 getting msg'd all goddamn day about fake farms or mafia wars is not too high on my to do list Jul 27 04:24:28 The humble beginnings of Google is hard to forget Jul 27 04:24:45 the little search engine that could? Jul 27 04:24:47 Macer: you can ignore those Jul 27 04:24:51 it's amazing they took off they way they did Jul 27 04:24:57 when there were so many alternatives Jul 27 04:25:04 yahoo pulled a damn amd when it came to google :) Jul 27 04:25:16 Metacrawler… Jul 27 04:25:41 yahoo acted like the gestapo Jul 27 04:26:02 yigal: i mean they were on top and just watched google take the lead and keep on going :) Jul 27 04:26:45 then again.. sbcglobal/att/whatever bought yahoo.. so that on its own turned it into something nobody wants haha Jul 27 04:27:25 when yahoo! sold out the poor blogger in China it was easy for me to stop using them all together Jul 27 04:28:06 sold out the poor blogger in china? Jul 27 04:28:10 google sold out in china too ;) Jul 27 04:28:18 http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article728898.ece, crap like that Jul 27 04:28:27 Macer: yes but only later Jul 27 04:28:33 not like that makes them better Jul 27 04:29:26 haha... yahoo sold out to french pussies as well.. disallowing all nazi forums and memorabilia Jul 27 04:29:49 not that i agree with nazism but still :) .. free speech/expression is free speech/expression Jul 27 04:29:54 look I'm a Jew, but I believe in freedom of speech Jul 27 04:30:04 howse that Jul 27 04:30:31 good morning vietnam. Jul 27 04:30:34 excuse my spelling, just meant to bring to point home Jul 27 04:30:37 hah Jul 27 04:30:54 yigal: money talks Jul 27 04:31:09 i don't care how a company TRIES to hide it.. in the end.. money rules all :) Jul 27 04:31:23 no people with $ are heard Jul 27 04:31:25 Google has to obey the law too Jul 27 04:31:40 the only question is which one Jul 27 04:31:46 DocScrutinizer, ping Jul 27 04:31:57 wazzup Jul 27 04:32:10 governments have the power to censor things. get over it. Jul 27 04:32:26 DocScrutinizer, what was the control -file field you talked couple of days ago? Jul 27 04:32:36 /me preemtively slaps the cuffs on luke-jr Jul 27 04:32:38 ok #politics, in any event Jul 27 04:32:43 o_O Jul 27 04:32:44 DocScrutinizer, the one that overrides the description in ham. Jul 27 04:32:58 luke-jr: google could have just given china the finger if they really wanted to Jul 27 04:33:04 they would have survived without the chinese market Jul 27 04:33:09 easily Jul 27 04:33:16 in package build folder /debian/control Jul 27 04:33:25 but could the Chinese? Jul 27 04:33:28 probably more so considering other countries would have been on board with a google boycott of china Jul 27 04:33:35 yigal: are they going to bomb california? :) Jul 27 04:33:41 DocScrutinizer, yes, that file, but what was the field name? Jul 27 04:33:44 XB-Maemo-Upgrade-Description: in there Jul 27 04:33:49 Macer: but why? Jul 27 04:33:59 DocScrutinizer, thanks. Jul 27 04:34:03 yw Jul 27 04:34:05 luke-jr: oh. firm beliefs or something like that Jul 27 04:34:09 I was a physics graduate student, my officemate was Chinese, Google was a huge part of having a good life in China Jul 27 04:34:14 nobody has those when it comes to money though ;) Jul 27 04:34:18 Macer: yes, I'm from CA Jul 27 04:34:25 Macer: firm idolatry of liberty? Jul 27 04:34:42 I have firm beliefs that government *justly* has the power to censor. Jul 27 04:34:51 just is the key term Jul 27 04:35:09 lol, governments never justly censor Jul 27 04:35:17 luke-jr: and companies have a right to just dismantle the market in the area if they believe that the country is not in the spirit of the service they are trying to provide Jul 27 04:35:19 ml-mobile: lol Jul 27 04:35:19 yigal: what was China censoring unjustly? Jul 27 04:35:22 but money talked ;) Jul 27 04:35:40 ml-mobile: i agree ;) Jul 27 04:35:50 i think elections should be held every year for every public office Jul 27 04:36:11 luke-jr: Tiananmen Square Jul 27 04:36:15 among other things Jul 27 04:36:23 Macer: I think monarchs shouldn't be elected. Jul 27 04:36:25 the masses are idiots Jul 27 04:36:31 luke-jr: agreed haha Jul 27 04:36:33 yigal: never heard of it Jul 27 04:36:41 luke-jr: google it, lo Jul 27 04:36:42 l Jul 27 04:36:44 wow Jul 27 04:36:56 luke-jr isn't familiar with tiananmen square? Jul 27 04:36:57 yigal: "Your query has been restricted. Sorry." Jul 27 04:37:23 luke-jr: lol Jul 27 04:37:36 a better example is how the government in china supresses reporting on things like the collapsed schools Jul 27 04:37:51 mostly because the contractors were very well connected to party members Jul 27 04:37:54 and bloggers Jul 27 04:38:09 yigal: those people should have tor'd their stuff ;) Jul 27 04:38:20 isn't china what tor is for? Jul 27 04:38:28 It amazes me that even US schools don't really tell you anything about Tiananmen. Jul 27 04:38:38 GAN900: the chinese would be angry Jul 27 04:38:45 then no more cheap wal-mart goods Jul 27 04:38:53 Most people don't realize the Chinese army was mowing civilians down in the streets. Jul 27 04:39:03 i need my cheap laptop Jul 27 04:39:05 i'll stick my head in the sand for a $100 fridge Jul 27 04:39:30 not to sound mean but i could care less about a person in china anyways :) Jul 27 04:39:42 but that's just me. i'm selfish Jul 27 04:39:48 Macer: you could NOT care less Jul 27 04:40:13 budfive: semantics ;) Jul 27 04:40:19 Macer: polar opposite :) Jul 27 04:42:04 wow a plentitude of silence Jul 27 04:51:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo.com#Criticism_and_controversy Jul 27 04:51:44 good reading :) Jul 27 05:03:38 heh the n900 doesn't like to have it's sim inserted while still on Jul 27 05:04:03 it is behind the battery is it not.. Jul 27 05:04:03 :P Jul 27 05:04:15 Stskeeps: that's easily worked around :) Jul 27 05:05:07 does anyone know the difference between a USIM and a regular sim card? (turns out n900 doesn't like the former, which my network uses) Jul 27 05:05:55 µSIM is what you mean, and your network undoubtedly uses both the classic SIM form factor and the new microsim Jul 27 05:06:11 the difference is the micro SIM card is smaller Jul 27 05:06:12 Macer: lol, awesome display of sarcasm via yahoo Jul 27 05:06:53 ieatlint: no, not micro-sim .. 'universal' sim apparently Jul 27 05:06:57 same form factor Jul 27 05:07:12 att? Jul 27 05:07:24 Three (australia) Jul 27 05:07:45 weird Jul 27 05:07:47 three most definately sells mini-sims Jul 27 05:07:50 back when they were the only 3G game in town it didn't matter so much Jul 27 05:07:51 sorry, all i know is what wikipedia could tell me Jul 27 05:08:27 (especially since I'm using 3 via telstra roaming right now) Jul 27 05:09:13 asj: they do micro cards to. just my 6700s 'usim' doesnt work in n900, but regular old sims work in it Jul 27 05:09:27 your 6700 has a mini-sim Jul 27 05:10:00 whatever the middle one is ;) smaller than a credit card, bigger than the iPad takes Jul 27 05:10:08 yes, mini-sim Jul 27 05:10:23 ok then its a mini USIM :) cheers for the correction Jul 27 05:10:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Subscriber_Identity_Module#USIM (didnt think to check wiki, d'oh!) Jul 27 05:11:09 cheriff: but that shouldn't be a problem, the n900 does 3g on 2100mhz Jul 27 05:11:35 all 3g "sim" are usims Jul 27 05:12:40 ah, thats what i though .. just when i tried it it was giving 'no sim inserted' messages, and i just assumed it was buisness as normal - not being able to borrow a friend's unlocked phone unless they also were on 3 Jul 27 05:12:53 (above and beyone carrier-lockin) Jul 27 05:13:46 well three might be doing something retarded with imei locking their sims or whatever that is, of all the carriers, never dealt with 3 Jul 27 05:14:28 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/1474986.html Jul 27 05:14:31 works for someone Jul 27 05:16:39 3 is "different" Jul 27 05:18:44 yeah :( now workie for me. not a big deal (only really needed a 'portable beagleboard') but was hoping to use as a decent phone sometimes also :) Jul 27 05:18:48 s/now/no/ Jul 27 05:18:49 cheriff meant: yeah :( no workie for me. not a big deal (only really needed a 'portable beagleboard') but was hoping to use as a decent phone sometimes also :) Jul 27 05:19:07 why yes, yes I did. Jul 27 05:19:24 cheriff: just get a real carrier ;) Jul 27 05:20:26 :) Jul 27 05:20:38 could try calling them, dunoo Jul 27 05:21:39 http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/t5/Maemo-Devices/Three-UK-sim-and-N900-any-update-yet/td-p/601864 seems to say 2.2009.51-1 fixes it, am still runnign stock FW Jul 27 05:21:48 Hmm. I've never seen anything besides just one size of sims. Jul 27 05:21:55 heyo :) Jul 27 05:21:58 cheriff: oh definately get pr1.2 Jul 27 05:22:32 how can i remove that boot time nokia video where one holds hand of the other ? Jul 27 05:22:34 :/ Jul 27 05:22:47 asj: ok, will ceede to the 'get maemo 5' updates :) i was concerned since IME 'update' == 'lockout' Jul 27 05:23:03 cheriff: just don't f it up :) Jul 27 05:23:32 ok :) so long as bootmenu continues to work i'll be Jul 27 05:23:34 happy Jul 27 05:23:46 h4xordood: Go to /etc/hildon-welcome.d/ and edit the default.conf file comment (#) out the line Jul 27 05:24:08 ham5, thnx :) Jul 27 05:24:12 np Jul 27 05:24:32 i am new to maemo :) Jul 27 05:24:50 well i installed bootmenu and updated it yesterday :) Jul 27 05:25:47 coming from fedora you might like the meego better :) Jul 27 05:27:16 yeah i am fedora boy :) Jul 27 05:27:29 i am trying meego mmc install also Jul 27 05:33:44 I wonder if they'll ever fix the app manager Jul 27 05:33:54 It takes forever just to show the list of repos Jul 27 05:33:54 MiXu-: install fapman Jul 27 05:34:28 You would think it would be only a simple cat /etc/apt/sources.list -> parse -> show. Jul 27 05:35:01 asj: Is it better? Jul 27 05:35:15 MiXu-: no it's worse that's why I suggested it ;p Jul 27 05:35:32 MiXu-: of course it's better, it's full name is Fast App Manager, so it's faster ;) Jul 27 05:35:32 If it's open source, you can never know without asking ;) Jul 27 05:36:08 It's like "Yeah, go ahead and install ubuntu. Even your grandma can use it." Jul 27 05:36:12 MiXu- you can use apt Jul 27 05:36:21 And then the first howto you come across involves command line ;) Jul 27 05:36:51 ham5: Sure, but it's not very convenient Jul 27 05:37:10 just looking to browse ? Jul 27 05:37:15 ham5: yeah Jul 27 05:37:24 fapman, serisouly :) Jul 27 05:37:35 http://maemo.org/packages/repository/ ? Jul 27 05:38:24 Hmm. That works. Jul 27 05:39:28 I do agree about their app manager tho Jul 27 05:39:32 to much refreshing Jul 27 05:43:40 what's so private in maemo bugzilla so it needs to be secured via ssl, tell me? Jul 27 05:44:00 slonopotamus: passwords? Jul 27 05:44:02 s/be secured/be served/ Jul 27 05:44:02 slonopotamus meant: what's so private in maemo bugzilla so it needs to be served via ssl, tell me? Jul 27 05:44:21 Stskeeps: t.m.o. also has passwords, so what? Jul 27 05:45:31 any login ought to have ssl Jul 27 05:45:31 :P Jul 27 05:45:42 (agreed) Jul 27 05:45:52 slonopotamus: why do you put letters in an envelop and not use post cards for everything? Jul 27 05:46:34 ~ping Jul 27 05:46:44 ~pong Jul 27 05:47:17 anyone flood that bot off? Jul 27 05:49:03 asj: irrelevant. i don't use snail-mail. also, man ciphers. Jul 27 05:49:20 slonopotamus: Jul 27 06:04:08 so Jul 27 06:04:14 GPS "valid data" -- SOLVED Jul 27 06:04:27 as well as parsing an actual subpacket format Jul 27 06:04:38 and # of available sats Jul 27 06:06:32 do we have an app that can just dump location API data to stdout? Jul 27 06:06:43 specifically, something including all the satellite data Jul 27 06:07:06 I threw together a Python script for my earlier work, but … (FIXME: currently "satellites" and "cell_info" attributes are not supported in Python):" Jul 27 06:08:06 luke-jr: maybe to high level, but can't minigpsd do something like that? Jul 27 06:08:19 … Jul 27 06:08:26 AFAIK minigpsd doesn't support N900 Jul 27 06:08:29 oh Jul 27 06:08:33 that's a good point indeed Jul 27 06:10:01 Corsac: if it did, all my work would be a waste XD Jul 27 06:11:18 I though minigpsd was using the api or something :) Jul 27 06:15:21 ah Jul 27 06:20:04 Have you guys tested FF 4 beta? Jul 27 06:20:23 The change they've made with the title bar is completely pointless. Jul 27 06:21:07 It doesn't save screen space, it's just more bling and sort of looks like how chrome does it. Jul 27 06:35:11 can someone send me the liblocation0-dev headers? :/ Jul 27 06:50:45 Hmm... My acc @ maemo.org just disaperead... Tryied to login in, but nope! Tryied to request my user+pass with the registered mail but then I got not valid mail! WT* Jul 27 07:01:59 hi everyone. Jul 27 07:02:09 is there anyone who's developed an SDL based game/app for n900? Jul 27 07:05:30 morning andre__ Jul 27 07:05:57 heja Jul 27 07:06:20 hello.. Jul 27 07:07:13 is this a good place to asking coding questions on n900? Jul 27 07:08:04 godda be better sdl specific channels Jul 27 07:10:28 thanks. how do I find those sdl channels? Jul 27 07:10:39 #maemo-sdl? Jul 27 07:10:47 how about #sdl? Jul 27 07:12:06 ok. I'll give it a try. Jul 27 07:12:41 it seems #sdl does not exist. Jul 27 07:18:03 yes it does Jul 27 07:18:10 62 people in it Jul 27 07:19:55 alright. it does exist. thanks. Jul 27 07:20:44 morning Jul 27 07:20:51 n0727_: #maemo-devel Jul 27 07:27:04 Stskeeps: poke Jul 27 07:27:46 mm? Jul 27 07:29:18 Stskeeps: got liblocation headers? :p Jul 27 07:29:25 not handy Jul 27 07:29:35 Stskeeps: or even more ideally a simple app to dump liblocation data? Jul 27 07:33:15 luke-jr: do you have list of that stuff in that packet? Jul 27 07:33:28 jacekowski: ? Jul 27 07:33:51 from cellmo Jul 27 07:33:53 from gps Jul 27 07:34:10 I have everything decompiled except detailed satellite info and cell_info I think Jul 27 07:34:27 where is the list? Jul 27 07:34:46 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_GPS_Reverse_Engineering is an old version Jul 27 07:35:22 pre-subpacket Jul 27 07:40:16 24,25,26(,27?) = longitude / 360 * 256*256*256(*256?) wtf Jul 27 07:43:35 all these values are either double or float Jul 27 07:47:54 jacekowski: why? Jul 27 07:48:38 well, that's most likely option Jul 27 08:01:42 Nokia-N900:~# flash Jul 27 08:01:42 flash_erase flash_info flash_otp_dump flash_unlock flasher Jul 27 08:01:42 flash_eraseall flash_lock flash_otp_info flashcp flashlauncher Jul 27 08:01:57 where the hell did those come from Jul 27 08:02:20 bootmenu? Jul 27 08:03:29 mtd-utils Jul 27 08:04:17 MohammadAG: neopwn.com website updated Jul 27 08:04:25 http://www.neopwn.com/release.php Jul 27 08:05:37 they're plonkers, as usual Jul 27 08:06:46 bah Jul 27 08:07:06 they could release the driver, it's what's really needed anyways Jul 27 08:07:12 the rest can be installed on maemo Jul 27 08:08:25 fucking stupid shitty drama queens Jul 27 08:08:37 boo fucking hoo, a dev left you? Piss. Jul 27 08:08:40 off. Jul 27 08:09:12 the dev that did all the worK? Jul 27 08:09:12 :P Jul 27 08:09:45 nha, he goes into a little tirade over open source, and how difficult it is to keep a project afloat if you're not the main dev Jul 27 08:09:48 Morning, all Jul 27 08:09:56 jacekowski: not at all Jul 27 08:10:08 jacekowski: seeing as I've decoded most everything and none of it seems to be float/double Jul 27 08:10:25 morning Jaffa Jul 27 08:10:37 crashanddie, tbh, something tells me the whole injection thing was fake Jul 27 08:11:00 well, the screencast we've seen is nothing really Jul 27 08:11:06 indeed Jul 27 08:11:10 I mean, I can write the same GUI in about 20 minutes flat Jul 27 08:11:23 5 if you're using Qt designer Jul 27 08:11:35 no, 20 cuz I'm typing on the N900 :P Jul 27 08:11:40 lol Jul 27 08:11:55 I've been sceptic since the beginning Jul 27 08:12:12 and the demo in terminal could be ssh Jul 27 08:12:30 well, even that could be fake, really Jul 27 08:12:49 maybe they just wanted free tickets to defcon and BH? Jul 27 08:12:58 they didn't specifically show the wl1251 driver being loaded Jul 27 08:13:11 crashanddie, who'd want those Jul 27 08:13:32 well, they are a pretty big deal, mate Jul 27 08:14:10 meh Jul 27 08:14:21 on a side note, plugin-container needs to die Jul 27 08:15:40 what are you talking about again Jul 27 08:16:25 injection with the wl1251 Jul 27 08:16:51 well, wl1251 is open source Jul 27 08:21:47 besides, if card doesn't have problem with mac changes then it shouldn't have any problems with packet injection Jul 27 08:22:23 jacekowski, I'm sure no one here would patch it to support injection Jul 27 08:22:38 isn't it mac80211 that has to be patched instead? Jul 27 08:22:57 MohammadAG: why? Jul 27 08:23:26 jacekowski, no motive? Jul 27 08:23:38 well, i could do it just for sake of doing it Jul 27 08:23:50 but recently i don't have time for that sort of things Jul 27 08:24:53 so i suppose your point still stands Jul 27 08:28:37 is this even possible? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=766125#post766125 Jul 27 08:28:42 isn't the IMEI stored in cal? Jul 27 08:30:00 I thought the SIM? Jul 27 08:30:30 err, no Jul 27 08:30:42 that's IMSI iirc Jul 27 08:31:39 from time to time the icons on my desktop stops responding and do not trigger the execution of the correlated application until reboot, what might be the workaround? thanks alot. Jul 27 08:31:58 and the reasons. Jul 27 08:34:57 I check out top next time see if anything is taking up alot of cpu time something is locking up Jul 27 08:35:05 IMEI is probably in the cellmo. Jul 27 08:38:16 MohammadAG51: imei isn't in cal Jul 27 08:38:39 MohammadAG51: imei is in rapuyama and copy of it is in cal Jul 27 08:46:04 sandstorm: hildon-home frozen by a thirdparty app Jul 27 08:47:11 anyone here familiar w/ DVDs? Jul 27 08:47:19 there's some sort of programming language for them Jul 27 08:47:21 sandstorm: get a shell, become root and apt-get remove hildon-desktop-python-loader Jul 27 08:47:23 what is it? :) Jul 27 08:47:52 sandstorm: and all what it tells to uninstall with it Jul 27 08:48:55 sandstorm: restart hildon-home with "dsmetool -k /usr/bin/hildon-home" to stop and "dsmetool -t /usr/bin/hildon-home" to start it again Jul 27 08:49:39 good day/afternoon/evening! I have some beginner development questions. what is the preferred SDK now for developing (most probably Qt apps) for Maemo 5 (on Linux): the regular SDK (the one installed by the python script) or Nokia Qt SDK? Jul 27 08:50:16 I use Nokia Qt SDK Jul 27 08:50:44 Jucato: what you prefer... for pythonQt you can just ssh to your phone or use the sdk for example Jul 27 08:51:23 how do you set up the Maemo Emulator in the Nokia Qt SDK? I don't have a phone yet (but it might be coming if I can get a dev environment up asap :) Jul 27 08:51:52 chem|st: for now, C++ (I'm not that knowledgeable of python yet) Jul 27 08:52:22 Jucato: Maemo emulator is installed and configured as part of the Nokia Qt SDK package Jul 27 08:52:57 thats for qtcreator at least Jul 27 08:53:18 chem|st: why do I need to uninstall python loader? Jul 27 08:53:20 hm ... let me check again. a while ago it wasn't Jul 27 08:54:43 sandstorm: I guess some of your (or just one) python hacked widgets is having a bad day... Jul 27 08:55:20 Jucato: well the howto guides to attaching real n900 only... Jul 27 08:55:23 no idea! Jul 27 08:55:29 chem|st: exactly :( Jul 27 08:56:09 Tools -> Options -> Projects page -> Maemo Device COnfiguration tab. I set it to use Maemo emulator, but when I click on Test, it goes "Device configuration test failed: Could not connect to host. Did you start Qemu?" Jul 27 08:56:32 chem|st: hmm thank you very much for the workaround Jul 27 08:56:38 and suggestions Jul 27 08:56:47 Jucato: you have to set the build target to maemo to get the button shown it says Jul 27 08:57:23 sandstorm: for just get it out of that state you may restart with dsmetool but that wont solve the problem Jul 27 08:58:18 so I tried using the older SDK, it downloaded the scratchbox packages, then failed later on at the installation, saying it couldn't find /scratbox (because I set SB_PATH to /opt/scratchbox because I'm on Fedora). so I started the installer again with the default path and now it's downloading all the scratchbox packages again! :) Jul 27 08:59:13 Jucato: yeah scratchbox is installed without fedora repos in that case Jul 27 09:01:04 chem|st: yep the button is there. but it won't start. hm ... but now I'm even having build problems on a fresh new Qt Mobile project (set to Maemo taret) "Command dh_installdirs failed" Jul 27 09:03:51 heh this is fun >.< Jul 27 09:27:59 hi, does anyone knows the style of the pinyin/zhuyin/.. mode in the MTF IMF of the meego/maemo6 Jul 27 09:29:18 infobot:: do you know where to find the source code for those pinyin/zhuyin... mode? Jul 27 09:29:42 yes, I know where to find the source code for those pinyin/zhuyin... mode. Jul 27 09:31:19 chem|st: exactly, that wont solve the problem but if I could, I wish to reveal the actual problem which causes hildon to hung Jul 27 09:44:52 SDK installer failed 2nd time. I'm doing it manually piece by piece >.< Jul 27 09:46:32 anyone here successfully installed any SDK (original one or Nokia Qt) on Fedora? :) Jul 27 09:50:25 and the failure is...? Jul 27 09:53:12 E: Scratchbox bind mount for user not present. E: Start scratchbox service with 'sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start'. E: Specify an alternative installation path using '-s PATH' option. Jul 27 09:57:05 sandstorm: and that is one of the 3rd party widgets and most of the time it is a python one Jul 27 09:58:16 ali_: ==> #meego Jul 27 10:06:05 Jucato, then execute sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start Jul 27 10:06:20 Not sure, but I think Fedora doesn't have upstart Jul 27 10:15:49 jacekowski, does your fmtxd binary ignore USB cables? Jul 27 10:15:55 yep Jul 27 10:16:00 it ignores all kind of shit Jul 27 10:16:19 thing is that UI still has checks for headphones Jul 27 10:16:32 so if you have headphones plugged in you can't switch it on Jul 27 10:16:35 or do something Jul 27 10:16:41 so it's a wordaround for http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59249 ? Jul 27 10:16:42 but it will continue to work Jul 27 10:16:54 yes Jul 27 10:17:09 Hrmf - FCam and Power Kernel does not wanna be friends. Jul 27 10:17:16 Duckboot: yep Jul 27 10:17:23 I guess you're replying to that thread Jul 27 10:17:26 Duckboot: you have to compile modules on your own Jul 27 10:17:31 Duckboot, compile the modules Jul 27 10:17:37 MohammadAG: hmm, i can reply to it Jul 27 10:17:37 Duckboot, or use the precompiled ones Jul 27 10:17:38 jacekowski: Aah - Kk Jul 27 10:17:49 jacekowski, ty, I need a link to it anyways :) Jul 27 10:18:00 MohammadAG: Precompiled - Are there any for kernel-power? Jul 27 10:18:05 chem|st: you mean that I should ask this question in #meego channel? Jul 27 10:18:18 Duckboot, yes, I'll see if I can get a link Jul 27 10:18:27 MohammadAG: hmm, some people may think that it's an advertising or something Jul 27 10:18:30 chem|st: I asked, but nobody answered. :- Jul 27 10:18:31 MohammadAG: Excellent - thanks alot. Jul 27 10:18:41 MohammadAG: maybe it will be better if you reply Jul 27 10:18:48 jacekowski, it's your work Jul 27 10:19:05 jacekowski, how is it advertising anyways, you're not getting paid for it Jul 27 10:19:10 Duckboot, http://n900.tannerlab.com/kernel/fcam/fcam-drivers_1.0.5-1_armel.deb Jul 27 10:19:21 infobot: what's you meaning? where? could you tell me? Jul 27 10:19:31 ~seen t-tan Jul 27 10:19:33 <[DarkGUNMAN]> Good morning Jul 27 10:19:55 t-tan <~tanner@e179094244.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 45d 14h 38m 56s ago, saying: 'smoking hot device?'. Jul 27 10:20:09 ali_, infobot is a bot (duh), it can only reply to what was defined Jul 27 10:20:54 MohammadAG: Thank you Jul 27 10:22:07 MohammadAG: do you have any life outside of t.m.o? Jul 27 10:22:38 jacekowski, lol yeah, why? Jul 27 10:23:03 well, you've noticed that thread 5 minutes after it was created Jul 27 10:23:38 heh Jul 27 10:32:11 MohammadAG: oh, -_- thank you Jul 27 10:33:16 I cannot find the ! and ? sign on the virtual keyboard for Slovenian language Jul 27 10:33:22 Any ideas? Jul 27 10:33:49 jacekowski, what's the kernel module for the fmtx Jul 27 10:35:15 look in category:n900 hardware - i think I wrote it down Jul 27 10:35:17 silsomething i think Jul 27 10:35:42 fmtx-si4713 Jul 27 10:36:04 Robot101, DocScrutinizer: I have code that makes the ringtone faster, just that it plays at the wrong volume atm :-/ Jul 27 10:36:23 hmm, can't find the .c file for it Jul 27 10:36:44 well, i can Jul 27 10:37:25 fmtx-si4713.mod.c? Jul 27 10:37:33 ./drivers/media/radio/si4713.c Jul 27 10:37:43 or Jul 27 10:37:43 ./drivers/media/radio/radio-si4713.c Jul 27 10:37:46 one of these Jul 27 10:37:48 i don't remember Jul 27 10:37:51 oh, ty Jul 27 10:39:11 drivers/media/radio/si4713.c, t Jul 27 10:39:12 y Jul 27 10:43:06 hmm Jul 27 10:43:17 so the fmtx supports 87500, but the UI doesn't Jul 27 10:43:18 weird Jul 27 10:43:43 Depends on the firmware variant. Jul 27 10:43:59 Local laws might prevent that. Jul 27 10:44:19 country variants are defined in the module apparently Jul 27 10:44:21 doesn't depend on firmware Jul 27 10:44:23 oh Jul 27 10:44:24 right Jul 27 10:44:35 I suppose if you call linux + stack firmware, then yes Jul 27 10:44:35 MohammadAG: fmtx supports 73mhz Jul 27 10:44:39 example, US step is set to 20, EU is set to 10 Jul 27 10:44:57 I'm setting US to 10, my device is a US one anyways Jul 27 10:45:00 jacekowski, hmm? Jul 27 10:45:14 you can go down to 73MHz Jul 27 10:45:33 how Jul 27 10:45:46 76* Jul 27 10:46:01 echo 3 > /sys/somewhere Jul 27 10:46:09 or Jul 27 10:46:13 echo 4 > /sys/somewhere Jul 27 10:46:15 4 is better Jul 27 10:46:39 but then there is still UI problem Jul 27 10:46:41 isn't the fmtx region defined in cal? Jul 27 10:46:49 no Jul 27 10:47:01 well, yes Jul 27 10:47:02 but no Jul 27 10:47:37 do you understand? Jul 27 10:47:49 kind of :P Jul 27 10:48:05 defined, but the sw can just happily ignore it? Jul 27 10:48:18 /sys/bus/i2c/devices/2-0063/region Jul 27 10:48:26 that's where you change region Jul 27 10:48:32 The hardware is I2C Jul 27 10:48:34 module defaults to 2 i think Jul 27 10:48:44 it should take the region from qtmobility! Jul 27 10:48:45 you can unload the module, and talk to it completely raw Jul 27 10:49:10 you don't have to Jul 27 10:49:15 there is nothing in module Jul 27 10:50:22 only thing that fmtxd is interested in is fmtxd_pwl Jul 27 10:50:34 which contains power level settings Jul 27 10:50:47 but it reads max and min frequencies and step from /sys Jul 27 10:50:50 on startup Jul 27 10:50:57 so fmtxd isn't a problem Jul 27 10:51:28 it's GUI that's messing with stuff Jul 27 10:51:33 jacekowski: does your edited fmtxd allow for all these things? Jul 27 10:51:59 fmtxd - yes Jul 27 10:52:07 * MohammadAG sets #define DEFAULT_POWER_LEVEL 88 to 118 Jul 27 10:52:10 but you have to use fmtx_client Jul 27 10:52:27 MohammadAG: normal fmtxd will reduce it anyways Jul 27 10:53:05 kerio: because libhildonsomethingdoingsomethingwithfmtx.so has it's own checks for region, headphones and stuff Jul 27 10:53:23 libhildonfm.so.2.0.0 Jul 27 10:53:34 mine goes to eleven Jul 27 10:53:37 300k for a .so with 3 buttons Jul 27 10:54:14 * lcuk sets MohammadAG DEFAULT_POWER_LEVEL to OVER 9000! Jul 27 10:54:31 * MohammadAG implodes Jul 27 10:54:46 lcuk: you're still messing with 4chan i see Jul 27 10:55:26 nahh over 9000 has been around for yonks Jul 27 10:56:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik Jul 27 10:59:14 hmm Jul 27 10:59:30 I wonder if the FMTX supports 5 steps Jul 27 11:00:03 as in .5MHz Jul 27 11:00:09 yes Jul 27 11:00:31 but .5MHz is 50 Jul 27 11:01:49 static struct region_info region_configs[] = { Jul 27 11:01:49 /* USA */ Jul 27 11:01:49 { Jul 27 11:01:49 .channel_spacing = 5, Jul 27 11:03:13 but again Jul 27 11:03:20 gui can only do 0.1MHz Jul 27 11:04:37 screw it Jul 27 11:06:27 ehh Jul 27 11:06:29 http://jacekowski.org/Maemo/Chromium#comments Jul 27 11:06:31 read that Jul 27 11:06:38 hey bro wassup i cant find the way to download chromium what can i do ? Jul 27 11:06:55 plzzz send me libxss file on my id Jul 27 11:06:56 greatbang_ash@hotmail.com Jul 27 11:06:59 turn off comments Jul 27 11:07:24 yeah, i was thinking about that Jul 27 11:07:34 but why people are soooooooooooooooooooo stupid Jul 27 11:08:14 make an .install file, saves you the time to explain how to add a repo Jul 27 11:09:25 waagh... apple store is down. this means most probably new imacs. which means it's time to decide whether to buy a genuine one, or lose my mind building a hackintosh :/ Jul 27 11:09:54 Wolfie: or buy a real PC Jul 27 11:10:15 omg... imacs... Jul 27 11:10:16 ew Jul 27 11:11:05 jacekowski: no thanks. I already have a linux server, and a Windows netbook Jul 27 11:11:14 it's just my mac that needs replacement Jul 27 11:11:19 jacekowski, turn off comments and http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=9ajDp4cU Jul 27 11:12:02 nah, people will just start sending me e-mails Jul 27 11:12:59 then don't turn off comments but add the .install file Jul 27 11:13:05 you could add a package = line Jul 27 11:13:16 package = chromium-browser Jul 27 11:13:20 or whatever you called the package Jul 27 11:14:08 really, Jul 27 11:14:26 people that are too stupid to understand that post don't deserve to have chromium Jul 27 11:37:28 Does N900 put some SMS messages to /dev/null? :) I can't seem to get VCAL messages :( Jul 27 11:50:12 PolarFox: sure they arent being sent as mms? Jul 27 11:50:51 yeah.. I'm sure. I sent them myself. And they work ok with our test phone (N97) Jul 27 11:51:03 and Android phone just shows the VCAL as text.. Jul 27 11:51:11 But my N900 doesn't show it at all :) Jul 27 11:51:53 All with the same sim card.. and same system sending the messages. Jul 27 11:52:36 whatsystem is sending the messages? Jul 27 11:53:15 anyway, dbus-monitor shows stuff whenever an incoming sms is received, could take a look there if it shows up Jul 27 11:53:28 (have to be runningi when the sms is sent ) Jul 27 11:53:39 It's a top sicrit SMS gateway, that is in production use already.. :) Jul 27 11:59:44 Nothing in the dbus-monitor suggests that SMS was ever received... Jul 27 12:04:53 10$ dumbphone 1 - n900 0 Jul 27 12:05:05 or, to be more precise, 10$ dumbphone 1 - n900 581758371835782578125 Jul 27 12:05:40 ITYM Jul 27 12:05:50 0$ dumbphone 1 - n900 581758371835782578124 Jul 27 12:05:55 you forgot to subtract the 1 Jul 27 12:08:03 barisione: you've read the suggestion to use a fifo in .local/sounds with name of ringtone - then feed that fifo with a process deciding which ringtone to pipe in there? Jul 27 12:09:41 SpeedEvil: i did Jul 27 12:09:48 it was 581758371835782578126 Jul 27 12:10:05 frals: I sent the message from N900 to my number... Didn't arrive.. :) Jul 27 12:12:13 So sending VCAL SMS messages to N900 doesn't work.. and I have to go home. :) Jul 27 12:13:27 hi Jul 27 12:14:36 hi Jul 27 12:15:12 PolarFox: are you the same PolarFox whom I know from high school? Jul 27 12:16:03 Venemo: I doubt that ;) Jul 27 12:16:43 PolarFox: okay, it seems your nicks are accidentally the same :) Jul 27 12:16:51 PolarFox: sorry, but I had to ask :) Jul 27 12:16:58 That has been a problem in the past.. :) Jul 27 12:17:05 That's why I have registered this in freenode ;) Jul 27 12:17:36 I still get weird messages in IRCnet Jul 27 12:20:20 PolarFox: sorry for that. Jul 27 12:33:00 Hi, I am having a strange problem, I can't find skype protocol on the phone, even if it says skype is installed Jul 27 12:33:08 is there anyway out of this ? Jul 27 12:33:18 try uninstalling/reinstalling? Jul 27 12:36:28 hey, is there a 'remember the milk' app for maemo? or is there a similar service? Jul 27 12:37:41 I think apt-get install nolazy works Jul 27 12:41:46 GuySoft I vaguely remember a milk related app Jul 27 12:41:58 GuySoft: 'Daddies little helper' ? Jul 27 12:41:58 moo Jul 27 12:43:25 GuySoft: NoLazy Jul 27 12:43:35 Duckboot, is that another service? Jul 27 12:43:52 http://maemo.org/packages/view/nolazy/ Jul 27 12:44:07 moo is not downlodable Jul 27 12:44:31 http://www.my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?name=Daddys_Little_Helper&faq=43&fldAuto=1201 Jul 27 12:44:53 Duckboot, thanks :) Jul 27 12:44:57 GuySoft: Daddy's little Helper has a desktop widget too. Jul 27 12:45:00 does not seem to work for maemo Jul 27 12:45:17 Compatibility Jul 27 12:45:18 Maemo 5 Jul 27 12:45:24 Should be. Jul 27 12:45:48 Duckboot, i have a N810 Jul 27 12:45:56 Aah Jul 27 12:46:28 "those little things..." Jul 27 12:48:14 GuySoft: http://zutun.garage.maemo.org/ Jul 27 12:48:17 hm.. isn't it a bit shitty.. that instinctive player? Jul 27 12:48:51 mine has been saying "Analyzing, please come back later" when trying instinctive shuffle every time i have tried it.... ever since the first release Jul 27 12:49:19 even after having it started all night without playing.. :) Jul 27 12:49:31 I heard it was slow and cwappy compared to the inbuilt player that's just a teeny bit glitchy :) Jul 27 12:50:07 alterego: I actually quite like the build in player... :) Jul 27 12:50:26 but then... I also tend to use Windows Media Player on my PC.. ;) Jul 27 12:50:35 mostly because I'm too lazy to install anything else Jul 27 12:51:56 DocScrutinizer: a fifo for what? Jul 27 12:53:32 Duckboot, ztun crashes, and does not let you review the tasks, only add them Jul 27 12:54:34 barisione: as default playback-ringtone.wav - so dialer/whatever deals with all the volume and gstreamer and whatnot setup, and you just decide about the audio data to feed in :-) Jul 27 12:54:50 GuySoft: Then I haven't got any more suggestions - sorry. Jul 27 12:55:50 barisione: you can switc ringtones on the fly then, while playback is going on Jul 27 12:56:04 DocScrutinizer: it cannot work, as the playing of the ringtone could start before I choose what to play Jul 27 12:56:06 haj: I like it too :P Jul 27 12:56:07 Duckboot, i can try and look at NoLazy. maybe i can get it to compile Jul 27 12:56:11 Hello! Jul 27 12:56:12 does anyone use NoLazy? Jul 27 12:56:16 alterego, you have a minute? Jul 27 12:56:26 barisione: that's why I say you can switch on the fly :-D Jul 27 12:56:43 D-Iivil_Work: maybe go ahead. Jul 27 12:57:05 the process that reads the file will have already opened the other ringtone and so only that one would play Jul 27 12:57:09 alterego: But I'd like to know if it can even work that instinctive stuff :) Jul 27 12:57:20 alterego, can you help me with adding QT / C app's source to package and make autobuilder build it for me? Jul 27 12:57:52 alterego, I mean with the rest of the package. (I want to include source of my Plastic Theme Setup with the theme package instead of just putting binary-file in the package). Jul 27 12:57:55 D-Iivil_Work: that might be a bit too in depth as I'm about to go into an interview... Jul 27 12:57:57 alterego: hah.. it's silly that instinctive puts the phone tones in the playlist.. and quite confusing.. :) Jul 27 12:58:03 alterego, okay :) Jul 27 12:58:18 alterego, then I'll just google a bit more and try to figure it out from files that QT Creator makes... Jul 27 12:58:43 haj: it's silly that the inbuilt image viewer indexes all my icons too :P Jul 27 12:59:31 D-Iivil_Work: you should just need the .pro file with your source and put all the QT and platform deps in you debian/control file. Jul 27 12:59:52 alterego, really? Is it that easy? Jul 27 13:00:40 Should be, oh and add the build process as you would enter it on the command line into you debian/rules file. Jul 27 13:00:50 alterego, I mean I must somewhere specify into what folder will the binary be built etc. Jul 27 13:01:01 alterego, what would the proper command be to put in rules -file? Jul 27 13:01:19 alterego, and please don't mind me asking, just go to the interview when you have to :P Jul 27 13:01:37 something like: qmake myproject.pro Jul 27 13:01:40 then make Jul 27 13:01:42 alterego: that also... actually it might be sufficient to say: It's silly Jul 27 13:01:51 alterego, okay, I'll investigate from here. Jul 27 13:01:53 alterego, thanks. Jul 27 13:02:36 and: DESTDIR=$(BASEDIR)/debian/myproject/opt/myproject make install Jul 27 13:02:53 or something like that, my variable names are probably wrong. Jul 27 13:03:09 alterego, well, I'll take it from here and try to survive :) Jul 27 13:03:55 Sounds like there are some delays, I might be waiting some time... Jul 27 13:09:44 alterego, hmm... in the rules-file that's generated by QT creator it says only these: Jul 27 13:10:00 build-stamp: configure-stamp Jul 27 13:10:00 dh_testdir Jul 27 13:10:00 $(MAKE) Jul 27 13:10:00 touch $@ Jul 27 13:10:09 oops, wrong place. Jul 27 13:10:41 alterego, this: http://www.pastie.org/1062057 Jul 27 13:11:18 alterego, so is it enough if I place the source files and the .pro -file in the root of my package's folder and add those commands into the rules-file? Jul 27 13:11:32 alterego, and ofcource specify the install-folder Jul 27 13:13:01 yes Jul 27 13:13:19 alterego, and it won't mess up the other stuff that's being built by autobuilder? Jul 27 13:13:30 Maybe look at someone elses Qt based packaging file to make sure of the syntax and variable names. Jul 27 13:14:28 alterego, coz' there's a bunch of $(MAKE)'s already in my rules -file... Jul 27 13:15:07 You use make? Jul 27 13:15:20 alterego, well it's already there. I'm using a template by stskeeps. Jul 27 13:15:42 alterego, it's a template of theme that's being built by autobuilder. Jul 27 13:15:50 is there any mic recorder in python around Jul 27 13:16:09 something like recaller would be ideal, but not as a widget Jul 27 13:16:15 alterego, here's the current rules-file: http://www.pastie.org/1062061 Jul 27 13:16:57 alterego, and right now I'm just copying the pre-compiled bin into the place I want (that's done @ line 83 in rules-file). Jul 27 13:21:05 Yeah, can see that. You'll need to replace that with a make install Jul 27 13:21:47 as a test, i started taking bits of gstreamer nessisary parts from recaller, but although it records, and saves it Jul 27 13:21:52 media player cant open it Jul 27 13:22:21 alterego, but what's confusing me is that there's already a $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/$(PKGNAME); \ Jul 27 13:23:13 alterego, so adding another one doesn't make sense to me :-D Jul 27 13:27:54 hmm... libsdl-mixer1.2 is being kept back Jul 27 13:28:14 kerio, same Jul 27 13:28:21 kerio, I mean on my device. Jul 27 13:28:38 and HAM reports some things as being not updated while apt reports other things Jul 27 13:28:38 :| Jul 27 13:28:48 According to a new study the psychological profile of iPad owners can be summed up as "selfish elites" while have-not critics are "independent geeks." Jul 27 13:28:52 eek. Jul 27 13:28:53 i'll let my trusty fapman deal with this Jul 27 13:31:09 WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! Jul 27 13:31:10 python-all python python-minimal python-osso Jul 27 13:31:11 the fuck Jul 27 13:31:23 hit y and enter Jul 27 13:35:38 lcuk, do you know how to get the sources of kernel power? Jul 27 13:39:27 albanc: apt-get source kernel-power? Jul 27 13:40:31 albanc: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle-1.2/free/source/k/kernel-power Jul 27 13:40:43 is there any app to display satellite elevation and azimuth? :/ Jul 27 13:41:05 you could just pretend the sky is rectangular Jul 27 13:41:09 like I did Jul 27 13:41:14 isn't it? Jul 27 13:41:17 lol Jul 27 13:41:22 not visually Jul 27 13:41:23 just the numbers Jul 27 13:41:26 :) Jul 27 13:41:52 http://enivax.net/jk/gps-10hrsatplot.png Jul 27 13:41:52 toggles_w, thx Jul 27 13:41:53 oh.. Jul 27 13:42:03 luke-jr: I guess you already check the usual apps (maep, location-test-gui, mapper etc.)? Jul 27 13:42:51 Corsac: the -test-gui sounds interesting, but my apt has it not Jul 27 13:43:02 it's in fremantle sdk non-free tools Jul 27 13:43:20 lcoation-test-gui doesn't do it Jul 27 13:43:26 Stskeeps: apt line? Jul 27 13:43:36 hya guys. anyone knows how to get bash to be the defauly shell (i googled for it but most of the people who tired nuked their systems :)) Jul 27 13:43:55 it's easiest to just type bash after starting x-terminal Jul 27 13:44:15 gotcha...thats how i did it so fat Jul 27 13:44:16 luke-jr: heck if i know, check repository.maemo.org Jul 27 13:44:16 deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/tools free non-free Jul 27 13:44:16 :P Jul 27 13:44:38 or do it like me, be a masochist and use busybox sh Jul 27 13:44:58 whats busybos sh? Jul 27 13:45:10 *busybox Jul 27 13:45:14 the default shell Jul 27 13:45:18 ahh gotcha :) Jul 27 13:45:29 .. Jul 27 13:46:01 Only annoyance with it is that it doesn't handle UTF-8, so when I typo something it appears as a single letter, but when I backspace, it becomes into two letters, one deleted and one hidden Jul 27 13:46:08 and then shit goes syntax error Jul 27 13:46:11 man i just got the n900 2 days ago and im having a "man-crush";-) its just the best hardware device ive ever owned :) Jul 27 13:46:37 any out of repo software u guys are using and want to recommend? Jul 27 13:47:03 opera might be worth checking out I guess Jul 27 13:47:06 Mappero shows the sats on a 360-degree circle, but I don't know how to translate that to azimuth/elevation Jul 27 13:47:15 if you're familiar with opera mobile from other devices from before Jul 27 13:47:38 opera i use (in turbo mode) for browsing when on mobile data, microb for wifi Jul 27 13:47:49 zeltak, openssh rules Jul 27 13:48:01 (e.g. access your n900's file system via sshfs from your laptop) Jul 27 13:48:07 nvm, it works now, it was some thing to do with overwriting old files Jul 27 13:48:25 FBReader rules (HTML/EPUB/RTF/TXT/several-other-format e-books) Jul 27 13:48:25 or maybe i just needed to import os Jul 27 13:48:40 thx guys :) Jul 27 13:49:41 There was some significant effort put towards getting most software in one of the extras-* repos for maemo5 Jul 27 13:50:58 ooohhh Mappero looks cool Jul 27 13:51:14 so any idea what Mappero is showing me? Jul 27 13:51:16 excuse me, does anyone know off hand the d-bus signal to connect/listen to for when the camera shutter closes? (for a Qt app) Jul 27 13:51:21 would be more cool if it would be stable Jul 27 13:51:48 Where is the .config file in the kernel sources? There is no '.config' or 'config' Jul 27 13:53:03 make rx51_defconfig Jul 27 13:53:53 Jucato, not sure about DBus, but the cam shutter is GPIO Jul 27 13:54:34 should be in /sys somewhere Jul 27 13:55:40 hm .. thanks Jul 27 14:04:15 really, why am i getting errors? Jul 27 14:04:30 who screwed up maemo.org's certs? Jul 27 14:05:24 nokia? Jul 27 14:06:42 another https junkie Jul 27 14:08:13 kerio: which one? Jul 27 14:09:39 http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/gps2 Jul 27 14:10:03 bin file? Jul 27 14:10:05 the only significant bit undecoded now is cell info Jul 27 14:10:12 ham5: ARM ELF Jul 27 14:19:27 luke-jr: know any benchmarks that'd be good to figure out if we're running on a low cpu frequency or not on newer n8x0 kernels? Jul 27 14:21:00 ... bogomips? Jul 27 14:21:04 Stskeeps, I thought I'd mention, there is definitely no DVFS code for OMAP mainlined, but if you pull the -pm branch there SHOULD be - at least according to: http://elinux.org/OMAP_Power_Management Jul 27 14:21:15 -pm OMAP branch* Jul 27 14:21:44 ShadowJK: my doubt is really if it's on the max (400mhz) or not Jul 27 14:21:57 Stskeeps: run superpi on both kernels and see if the value is the same? Jul 27 14:22:11 Stskeeps, userspace bogomips Jul 27 14:22:20 ah Jul 27 14:23:18 Do you have /sys/power/op_active on new kernel? Jul 27 14:23:32 doubt it, there's not even CPUFREQ Jul 27 15:44:36 albanc, did you get the source? (een afk) Jul 27 15:44:58 lcuk, yes Jul 27 15:45:11 \o/ Jul 27 16:13:11 Hi! I've just bricked my phone uninstalling power-kernel and rebooting, is there any way to access /boot to put the kernel in there? Jul 27 16:13:30 the_lord: the kernel is NOT in /boot Jul 27 16:13:31 the kernel isn't in /boot Jul 27 16:13:42 just reflash the kernel part of the pr1.2 fiasco image Jul 27 16:13:44 the_lord: but you can flash it back Jul 27 16:14:04 well, werever it is Jul 27 16:14:20 yes, but iif I flash it I'll lose all my installed apps, I guess Jul 27 16:14:38 NO! Jul 27 16:14:48 i say to reflash ONLY the kernel part of the fiasco image Jul 27 16:15:10 http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power#Deinstallation Jul 27 16:15:20 drizztbsd, thx, let me try Jul 27 16:15:22 flasher-3.5 -f --flash-only=kernel -R -F Jul 27 16:40:17 Hi! Anyone here who can offer som help regarding garage.maemo.org? I'm really confused by the info sent out after my project was accepted. It suggests that only SSH1 is supported, but when I try to log on it exits saying: Protocol major versions differ: 1 vs. 2 Jul 27 16:41:04 none of the keys I've uploaded through the web ui works (I use them with several other servers) Jul 27 16:41:42 and I've checked that there are no linewraps (by resizing the textarea in the html form) Jul 27 16:47:59 and the link to the docs that the email I got doesn't work (404): https://garage.maemo.org/docs/site/ Jul 27 16:48:49 hmmm ceda not good Jul 27 16:49:05 i have seen something similar in the past also Jul 27 16:49:40 i cant remember how it was cured, its possible i made the ssh keys outside scratchbox and copied them in Jul 27 16:50:47 lcuk: sorry, but I'm not sure you're referring to my problem (which is accessing wifi-assistant.garage.maemo.org - not accessing the phone or scratchbox) Jul 27 17:11:42 should i upgrade? Jul 27 17:12:57 libsdl-mixer1.2 i mean Jul 27 17:15:37 it conflicts with mp-fremantle-generic-pr Jul 27 17:16:00 * DocScrutinizer51 would think people who set /ns set enforce on at least know how to config their clients to auto identify Jul 27 17:19:25 DocScrutinizer: do i apt-get install libsdl-mixer1.2? Jul 27 17:21:20 kerio: I don't even know what that is (well almost) Jul 27 17:21:44 it forces the uninstall of mp-fremantle-generic-pr Jul 27 17:22:00 prolly not what you want Jul 27 17:23:29 ceda: (keys) I had to remove the " "-separated user@engine part at end of key Jul 27 17:27:03 (404) yep, my notivication mail about invitation to repo upload had a derived URL that got 404. Some bug in this thing callled... errr whatever Jul 27 17:27:11 leeme dig out that mail Jul 27 17:30:40 DocScrutinizer: that'd be great! Jul 27 17:31:58 oops, wasn't the invite which was ok Jul 27 17:33:39 that's called, errr... midcom Jul 27 17:33:42 Link to page: Jul 27 17:33:43 http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-957d6050928711df8bae1f9ab104ddbaddba Jul 27 17:33:49 forget that Jul 27 17:33:56 stale link Jul 27 17:35:02 notification about comment added to http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/xxxx et al Jul 27 17:35:49 DocScrutinizer: what kind of SSH key is it that I need to submit? Jul 27 17:36:16 Hello all Jul 27 17:42:42 DocScrutinizer, nope, I need enforce Jul 27 17:44:59 why? Jul 27 17:48:33 http://r33b.net Jul 27 18:09:26 mohammadAG Jul 27 18:10:44 ? Jul 27 18:10:57 yyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy Jul 27 18:10:59 sorry Jul 27 18:11:04 sounded a bit gay Jul 27 18:11:08 let me rephrase Jul 27 18:11:10 yay Jul 27 18:22:42 * sp3000 needs a francophone Jul 27 18:23:03 what set of technologies does "un réseau sans fil" resolve to? Jul 27 18:23:15 WIFI Jul 27 18:23:21 only? Jul 27 18:23:25 Wireless network Jul 27 18:23:36 so not e.g. cellular? Jul 27 18:23:55 litterally it might be extented to cellular Jul 27 18:24:11 but it's used mostly for wifi Jul 27 18:24:15 ok, thanks Jul 27 18:24:18 what's the context ? Jul 27 18:24:31 and what's the literal translation? "network without wires"? Jul 27 18:24:44 Wireless network Jul 27 18:25:04 it's sort of describing a precondition or recommendation for something Jul 27 18:25:38 the context implies it wants to mean wifi, I was curious to know if it actually did :) Jul 27 18:25:49 * mgedmin meant word-by-word when he said literal Jul 27 18:25:59 (specifically as opposed to cellular afaict) Jul 27 18:26:03 * mgedmin wanted to know what 'reseau' and 'fil' meant Jul 27 18:26:14 * mgedmin got his answers from google translate now Jul 27 18:41:30 * lcuk shivers Jul 27 18:44:33 lcuk, cold? Jul 27 18:50:02 tripzero: no, someone just walked over his grave in the future Jul 27 18:50:21 tripzero, not really just took a swig of cold beer Jul 27 18:50:31 mneptok, name sounds nivenish Jul 27 18:51:36 lcuk: it may, but it's straight outta my own head. Jul 27 18:51:51 * mneptok has never read any Niven Jul 27 18:55:40 * lcuk ponders Jul 27 18:55:49 mneptok, you are missing out Jul 27 18:56:47 lcuk: "I Missed Out" is the working title of my memoirs Jul 27 18:57:19 and my memory is a bit wonky, after extensive searching, it was Phssthpok who I was mixing you up with :P Jul 27 18:57:41 mneptok, nahh you have never missed out, you just arrive late to the party Jul 27 18:58:58 * lcuk hunts for a command line github repository constructor Jul 27 19:01:52 http://pastebin.ca/1909530 Jul 27 19:01:58 lcuk: boo github Jul 27 19:02:24 luke-jr, huh? Jul 27 19:02:37 lcuk: github ftl Jul 27 19:03:02 what do you recommend then Jul 27 19:03:30 Gitorious Jul 27 19:03:40 http://github.com/blog/473-hi-xkcd github has all sorts of special subsections Jul 27 19:03:43 i have accounts there too Jul 27 19:03:59 Github is proprietary Jul 27 19:05:07 luke-jr, its not a problem as long as they maintain and run it as a service Jul 27 19:05:21 do you have a facebook account btw? Jul 27 19:05:42 lcuk: that excuse flies for all software; I guess we don't need open soure Jul 27 19:05:44 source* Jul 27 19:07:40 luke-jr, given equals, i would HAPPILY take 1 developer knowledgable and happy working within a closed source project than having to pick through an unsupported block of OSS and having to work out whats wrong. the rules change when there is no support and the project is mothballed however Jul 27 19:08:07 Gitorious is unsupported now? Jul 27 19:08:45 no, but thats my take on closed sourceness :) github has an active team around it, hence to me its a decent environment Jul 27 19:08:59 and its just using my git data which is not going anywhere Jul 27 19:09:19 until they fold, or get bored, or whatever ☺ Jul 27 19:09:31 or decide a feature you want isn't interesting Jul 27 19:09:36 git push newhost >> Jul 27 19:09:45 meh Jul 27 19:09:50 but then you have to reimplement everything about Github you liked Jul 27 19:09:51 ☺ Jul 27 19:11:24 lcuk: test my GPS app :p Jul 27 19:12:15 where is the git repo Jul 27 19:12:30 it has none Jul 27 19:12:45 http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/gps2 is a blob ☺ Jul 27 19:12:48 i thought you said you have gitorious Jul 27 19:13:10 /kick luke-jr Jul 27 19:13:14 not for that :p Jul 27 19:13:20 eventually I hope to get it integrated to gpsd Jul 27 19:13:24 BLOB Jul 27 19:13:27 you? Jul 27 19:13:31 mwahaha Jul 27 19:13:33 i thought it was against your religion Jul 27 19:13:42 lcuk: well, I might have posted the source, but you just said a blob is ok as long as I maintain it Jul 27 19:14:03 * slonopotamus highfives luke-jr Jul 27 19:14:06 lcuk: actually, closed source is only against my religion if I pay for the software Jul 27 19:14:11 sure, lemme pay you and get a warranty and stuff Jul 27 19:14:22 and even then, it is a mere theological conclusion, not a binding authoritative teaching Jul 27 19:14:44 and i want a damned box and some instructions Jul 27 19:14:51 so i can post unboxing videos :P Jul 27 19:14:54 lcuk: chmod +x and run it Jul 27 19:15:15 ideally without any Maemo stuff using GPS Jul 27 19:15:17 nope Jul 27 19:15:46 lcuk: software warranty? are you kidding? Jul 27 19:16:02 sure slonopotamus ! Jul 27 19:16:16 lcuk: what warranty do you have for maemo? Jul 27 19:16:20 not even Microsoft or Apple have warranties! Jul 27 19:16:36 luke-jr: what's this GPS app do? Jul 27 19:16:51 luke-jr: i hope lcuk doesn't have those Jul 27 19:16:51 slonopotamus, i dont buy maemo standalone do i Jul 27 19:16:55 SpeedEvil: starts the GPS chip, and dumps its output in realtime to stdout Jul 27 19:17:16 SpeedEvil: and stops the GPS chip when you ctrl-c Jul 27 19:17:21 luke-jr: does it require any software state? Jul 27 19:17:31 SpeedEvil: Maemo cannot be using the GPS itself Jul 27 19:17:42 or it could, but the start/stop bits might cause it to go crazy Jul 27 19:17:43 and require a reboot Jul 27 19:18:06 it doesnt' support AGPS, so if you haven't used GPS recently, it will take a while Jul 27 19:18:26 (dumping the interim details while you wait ofc) Jul 27 19:18:39 Would a - say - 3 hour log of two side-by-side n900s, one running your thingy, one running a GPX logger be useful? Jul 27 19:18:50 no, I think it's pretty much done Jul 27 19:18:53 k Jul 27 19:18:55 just needs integration Jul 27 19:19:02 you've decoded all of the bits? Jul 27 19:19:21 there's a few bytes I don't know what they're for, but I have at least all the info Maemo provides with liblocation ☺ Jul 27 19:19:31 :) Jul 27 19:19:33 neat. Jul 27 19:19:34 including satellite data Jul 27 19:19:46 and cell tower info Jul 27 19:20:19 actually, there is an incomplete part still… Jul 27 19:20:23 the start/stop commands Jul 27 19:20:28 I don't know how those work yet Jul 27 19:20:29 ☺ Jul 27 19:20:39 ✈☺ Jul 27 19:20:48 ☻ Jul 27 19:21:23 ‫This UTF will never catch on. Jul 27 19:21:30 ☠ Jul 27 19:22:09 ＵＴＦ−８　ｆｏｒｅｖｅｒ　：） Jul 27 19:22:39 ShadowJK: don't do that -.- Jul 27 19:22:54 Ｗｈｙ　ｎｏｔ？ Jul 27 19:23:04 those characters aren't in my font Jul 27 19:23:12 They're even latin Jul 27 19:23:21 they're deprecated I bet Jul 27 19:23:58 not sure, they render as double-width on my machine Jul 27 19:24:22 ˙ʍou pǝɹoq Jul 27 19:24:59 ShadowJK: well that doesn't exactly make sense in a fixed-width font1 Jul 27 19:25:01 ! Jul 27 19:25:07 lol Jul 27 19:35:57 luke-jr, double-width fixed-font characters are perfectly cromulent Jul 27 19:36:42 * mgedmin ♥ UTF-8 Jul 27 19:37:15 utf has a nazi sign in it Jul 27 19:38:39 I wonder which preexisting charsets had that Jul 27 19:39:48 esaym153: what is a nazi sign? Jul 27 19:39:55 I didn't realize they had anything original Jul 27 19:44:24 i am looking to get started with maemo development, anyone know the best place to buy an n900 Jul 27 19:44:55 papertigers: you don't need n900 in order to develop. Jul 27 19:44:58 <_llll_> get a decent contract and it will be free Jul 27 19:45:02 papertigers, theres a $1 deal somewhere! Jul 27 19:45:19 say what? Jul 27 19:45:21 hah Jul 27 19:45:25 more than that, official n900 software is useless for development Jul 27 19:45:35 http://thenokiablog.com/2010/07/22/nokia-n900-flashing-egg/ Jul 27 19:45:42 <_llll_> slonopotamus: real coders dont need to test? Jul 27 19:45:52 real coders use the internet to debug Jul 27 19:45:55 _llll_: they still need to compile. Jul 27 19:45:57 what else is OSS for :p Jul 27 19:46:03 slonopotamus, not at all, use autobuilder Jul 27 19:46:25 lcuk: no dpkg-buildpackage on n900. Jul 27 19:46:41 _llll_: lol yeah right Jul 27 19:46:51 lcuk: so now i wait for this to flash Jul 27 19:46:51 slonopotamus, if dev hasnt got an n900 thats not an issue Jul 27 19:46:52 hahaha Jul 27 19:47:17 _llll_: you don't need a N900 to test Jul 27 19:47:26 papertigers: you can write a waiting script Jul 27 19:47:26 real coders write apps that work on multiple platforms Jul 27 19:47:52 papertigers: search Froogle? Jul 27 19:48:09 papertigers: or hack into source and check when/how it flashes and what does on click then. Jul 27 19:49:23 papertigers, order from nokia if you are unsure Jul 27 19:49:34 <_llll_> you dont need a computer to write, just carve your perfect code into stone and post it to nokia Jul 27 19:49:52 _llll_: that's SO analog... Jul 27 19:50:00 cat | gcc Jul 27 19:50:13 crashanddie: no gcc on n900. Jul 27 19:50:19 sure there is Jul 27 19:50:25 apt-get install build-essential Jul 27 19:50:29 apt-get install build-essential Jul 27 19:50:30 slonopotamus: sure there is Jul 27 19:50:36 apt-get install build-essential Jul 27 19:50:38 oh Jul 27 19:50:40 sorry Jul 27 19:50:44 E: Couldn't find package build-essential Jul 27 19:50:47 and theres the hattrick Jul 27 19:50:50 you need the right repo Jul 27 19:50:55 add sdk tools repos Jul 27 19:51:03 how? Jul 27 19:51:20 and get fun with deps and rootfs free space? :) Jul 27 19:51:33 luke-jr: add sdk repo, i guess. Jul 27 19:51:35 slonopotamus, default flashed image now has over 100mb free Jul 27 19:51:46 I personally copird / to /home/user/data/chroot - and then just ran apt-get there Jul 27 19:51:52 build-essential at its worst is 80mb i believe Jul 27 19:51:54 $450 for a nwe one hmm Jul 27 19:52:00 with some extra lines in optify-boottime it could be less Jul 27 19:52:45 my / has 55 MB available Jul 27 19:52:56 * slonopotamus just uses gentoo chroot. Jul 27 19:53:49 * luke-jr too, but not all Gentoo binaries work on Maemo Jul 27 19:55:02 update libs in maemo via autobuilder. Jul 27 19:55:11 and ftw. Jul 27 19:57:13 the n900 allows pygtk and pyqt right? Jul 27 19:57:33 yes Jul 27 19:57:54 (and it doesn't have rights to disallow anything) Jul 27 19:58:21 is there a picture viewer that lets me browse by directory? Jul 27 19:59:41 I was just wondering if they had python bindings for all the maemo stuff in general Jul 27 19:59:52 no Jul 27 20:00:19 luke-jr: was the no to me? Jul 27 20:00:31 yes Jul 27 20:00:40 papertigers: yes (the no was for you). But there are quite a lot of bindings Jul 27 20:01:27 I'm using them as we speak to write an app that launches a browser when you get connected to a network with a captive portal page Jul 27 20:02:17 papertigers, you can see some of the available bindings here: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Components Jul 27 20:02:22 do the people who develop sw for the n900 actually ever use it? if i open the picture view it shows me all 3G of pictures i put on it in one list of thumbnails - how do i browse by folder? Jul 27 20:02:50 maher: folders are obsolete for photos Jul 27 20:02:53 even before N900 Jul 27 20:03:32 luke-jr: mm, but the UI for photos and videos get pretty sluggish after a while :P Jul 27 20:03:54 luke-jr: wtf? Jul 27 20:04:22 ceda: it doesn't work at all for me anymore ☹ Jul 27 20:04:23 it'd be better if it was paged (like digital cameras) and not a scroll list that is sooo long Jul 27 20:05:16 pages pah Jul 27 20:05:17 wimps Jul 27 20:06:07 I'd be happy if hildon-thumbnailer didn't kill device responsiveness :( Jul 27 20:16:48 baraujo: does doing pygtk use the look of maemos gtk? Jul 27 20:17:15 papertigers: yes Jul 27 20:17:26 ahh okay so its no different then Jul 27 20:17:30 then a pygtk app Jul 27 20:17:34 but there are additions to gtk, often call hildon Jul 27 20:18:12 papertigers, pygtk is only a Python wrapper to gtk2, the functionality is the same Jul 27 20:18:14 ceda: no hildon bindings? Jul 27 20:18:27 papertigers, python-hildon :) Jul 27 20:21:16 papertigers: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo Jul 27 20:21:30 and http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/UI_tutorial Jul 27 20:22:10 ceda: thanks Jul 27 20:24:39 arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Jul 27 20:24:39 goodbye cruel world! Jul 27 20:24:52 ouch!!! Jul 27 20:26:28 papertigers: and also http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/ which contains a listing of all python bindings available Jul 27 20:27:17 welcome back everybody Jul 27 20:27:54 noooooooo Jul 27 20:27:54 noooooooo Jul 27 20:27:55 don't gooooooooo! Jul 27 20:27:57 whats going on Jul 27 20:27:59 haha Jul 27 20:28:30 nooooooooooo! Jul 27 20:28:33 All my imaginary friends are leaving. Jul 27 20:29:20 IRC is composed of several interconnected servers. Users connect to one or other server, andthe servers pretend they're really one big server. Jul 27 20:29:28 Unless they don't. Jul 27 20:31:17 please remain seated with your tray tables in the upright position Jul 27 20:31:18 in the event of a netsplit - place your head between your knees and hands over your head Jul 27 20:31:23 Note, the seatbelt light is ON. please fasten your seatbelt Jul 27 20:31:32 and extinguish cigarettes Jul 27 20:31:53 hmm i want a n900 to write a nice media player app Jul 27 20:32:16 papertigers, show some initiative Jul 27 20:32:26 and put your name down on the developer loans list Jul 27 20:32:32 papertigers: if you can get one to do it, i'll be thoroughly impressed Jul 27 20:32:39 someone go into #freenode and tell them to fix their shit Jul 27 20:32:40 with as much outline and reasoning and perhaps mockup of what you want to do Jul 27 20:32:45 they know Jul 27 20:32:55 lcuk: where is that, and how likely is it Jul 27 20:33:41 papertigers, http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue Jul 27 20:34:20 its an option if you atre unable to obtain a device, though is usually only to developers who have shown lots of personal development initiative themselves and really do need one Jul 27 20:35:02 probably not worth it for me Jul 27 20:35:49 papertigers, :) it is an option however. theres plenty of places to get a device from Jul 27 20:36:08 lcuk: I just need to raise the money myself I guess Jul 27 20:36:19 I plan on writing a media player to interface with ampache Jul 27 20:41:19 ([2010-07-27 22:32:39] someone go into #freenode and tell them ) no use in it, chan is +m and /ns is offline ;-P Jul 27 20:41:44 whats +m ? Jul 27 20:42:06 lcuk: moderated Jul 27 20:42:54 MohammadAG51: hey, that hildon-desktop you made that fixes the incoming call glitch... I guess that only works with 4 home views? Jul 27 20:42:56 people talk in there without restriction? Jul 27 20:43:26 MohammadAG51, talk to me tomorrow about this HD patch Jul 27 20:43:57 lcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54556&page=11 Jul 27 20:49:03 lcuk, latest commit in gitorious Jul 27 20:49:45 it's just a backport Jul 27 20:49:48 MohammadAG51, i know that Jul 27 20:50:39 technically MohammadAG51 the latest commit in hildon-desktop official is by me Jul 27 20:51:53 MohammadAG51: but about that max number of home views.. it's only 4 in that fixed version yes? I just got used to having 5 ;) Jul 27 20:53:28 haj, the +4 thingy is part of modified-hildon-desktop Jul 27 20:53:36 contact Matan about that Jul 27 20:53:55 lcuk, yep :) Jul 27 21:00:19 matan? Jul 27 21:01:21 MohammadAG51: okay I will :) Jul 27 21:02:09 MohammadAG51: lcuk: would a button say in dialer be open to tweaks by LD_PRELOAD? I.E. is Qt providing button widgets via a *.so, or are they statically linked in? Jul 27 21:03:21 not sure DocScrutinizer ou would have to do whatever digging yourself, tho i do know that some sort of similar mechanism has been used in other places at random times in history Jul 27 21:03:36 (or maybe Qt uses even some other weird mechanisms to define themes and thus the way a button looks and works like?) Jul 27 21:05:03 well, I'd not even be shy to patch the binary of rtcom-call-ui to get a better UI in dialer Jul 27 21:05:28 maybe off topic but ovi map look like change the all GUI look and feel Jul 27 21:05:40 and look really nice Jul 27 21:06:19 the placement and size of [ACCEPT] directly next to [REJECT] for example is as daft and unergonomic as it can possibly get Jul 27 21:08:35 I'd not expect to change position of the buttons in any easy way, by patching the dialer binary. But maybe you can change the name of the widget to get a completely new type of button there, something working like the physical screenlock switch or the unlock switch on lockscreen - a slider Jul 27 21:09:33 have the accept switch a right-to-left slider, and the reject a left-to-right slider and you're fine Jul 27 21:13:55 DocScrutinizer: the interface just needs to not be jerky and laggy Jul 27 21:14:24 dial pad default not recent calls!!! Jul 27 21:14:43 ham5: shush you Jul 27 21:14:52 dialing a number is crap Jul 27 21:15:02 kerio: maybe that's true as well. But even a non jerky non laggy interface doesn't meet my definition of usability when the buttons are so close to each other Jul 27 21:18:56 funny shit now the proximity sensor works as a switch now in the sense of sending a d-bus msg every time and making my ill defined kbd slider startrek sound go off. Wasn't like this until recently, I'm rather sure. So maybe it gets enabled by using the dialer or by actually doing a phonecall, first time after boot? Jul 27 21:19:01 DocScrutinizer, how about we do some mockups of these things in action Jul 27 21:19:09 using qt or whatever Jul 27 21:19:11 nice idea Jul 27 21:19:25 should be easy with qt designer Jul 27 21:19:51 probably after 5h of practicing even I could do that :-P Jul 27 21:19:56 heh Jul 27 21:20:29 DocScrutinizer, Qt Designer is piss easy Jul 27 21:20:37 till you want to connect the UI to some functions Jul 27 21:20:42 though I'm not too sure about my ability to create that custom widget Jul 27 21:21:16 MohammadAG: I know, I modified and improved lots of twinklephone UI Jul 27 21:21:45 some 5 years ago? Jul 27 21:21:56 feels like 10 Jul 27 21:22:10 probably actually is 2 Jul 27 21:23:02 but designing a slider widget like the one on lockscreen maybe isn't that trivial Jul 27 21:30:37 the slider widget in the lockscreen sucks Jul 27 21:31:55 DocScrutinizer: what are you doing, making a slide to unlock widget? Jul 27 21:32:53 a slide to answer/reject Jul 27 21:33:13 btw Jul 27 21:33:18 kerio: well, for you it sucks. For me the whole lockscreen sucks, as does the dialer GUI layout. For that though I'd prefer a slider type button to a simple pushbutton Jul 27 21:33:19 can someone test something Jul 27 21:33:30 lock the N900 Jul 27 21:33:31 papertigers: yes, thinking about that Jul 27 21:33:31 call it Jul 27 21:33:33 answer Jul 27 21:33:46 close proximity, open proximity Jul 27 21:33:50 does it say device locked? Jul 27 21:33:57 or is it something in the new hildon-desktop Jul 27 21:34:11 papertigers: not to unlock but to replace the pushbutton [ACCEPT] in phone GUI Jul 27 21:35:35 please rephrase 2 last lines Jul 27 21:36:00 hmm, sec Jul 27 21:36:05 need a third device for a pic Jul 27 21:36:29 MohammadAG, i need a third hand to hold third device Jul 27 21:36:30 :p Jul 27 21:37:24 damn Jul 27 21:37:36 drove my mother's altima gxe and the damn thing is like turbo charged or something Jul 27 21:38:06 so... the Designed by Community phone has no physical keyboard Jul 27 21:38:08 upping Jul 27 21:38:27 kerio: pfff Jul 27 21:38:43 * kerio <3 keys Jul 27 21:39:32 why is tinypic so damn slow sometimes Jul 27 21:39:46 design by community is a hoax Jul 27 21:40:42 MohammadAG: because they want to teach you speaking clear and precise, instead of falling back to gestures or drawing to the wall Jul 27 21:40:56 lmfao Jul 27 21:41:27 DocScrutinizer, lcuk http://i25.tinypic.com/301m1s4.jpg Jul 27 21:41:45 kerio: which phone are you talking about? openmoko? Jul 27 21:42:16 damn, now that's weird Jul 27 21:42:22 ceda: no, the nokia concept designed by the community Jul 27 21:42:33 DocScrutinizer, never seen it? Jul 27 21:42:37 nope Jul 27 21:42:54 do you mind installing a deb? Jul 27 21:43:02 see link here https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10613#c28 Jul 27 21:43:03 Bug 10613: screen glitches on incoming call Jul 27 21:43:13 what glitch? Jul 27 21:43:30 video by someone, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFgM5ZsCM6I Jul 27 21:43:57 easily reproducible Jul 27 21:44:14 This is why I want an n900, developing and testing would be sooo much fun Jul 27 21:45:05 backport of the latest commit in gitorious fixes it, which is what the deb in that link is Jul 27 21:45:16 but I've never seen the device locked part before I installed that deb Jul 27 21:45:30 could be a coincidence Jul 27 21:45:44 is it locked when a call is coming and it was locked before that? Jul 27 21:46:15 basically Jul 27 21:46:27 lock, call, answer, close proximity, open proximity Jul 27 21:46:48 actually Jul 27 21:46:54 just answer with the device locked Jul 27 21:47:01 no need to touch the proximity Jul 27 21:48:35 MohammadAG, ok but the lock button in the callui is not related to your fix in HD Jul 27 21:48:47 lcuk, it's not exactly in call-ui Jul 27 21:48:49 sorry, madam's fix Jul 27 21:48:59 it pops up as an extra dialog Jul 27 21:49:35 the bug you have already indicated is not the same issue is it Jul 27 21:50:03 I know, I'm just wondering if it's a missing entry in the changelog Jul 27 21:51:16 ok MohammadAG please do me a favour cos its late and im tired - make a clear writeup about it (doesnt have to be an essay) and I will talk to you properly tomorrow Jul 27 21:51:32 lcuk: you know dbus? Jul 27 21:51:35 heh Jul 27 21:51:47 * MohammadAG downgrades to old hildon-desktop Jul 27 21:52:21 or anybody else, d-bus? Jul 27 21:52:33 DocScrutinizer, a smidge Jul 27 21:52:44 just ask it does no harm Jul 27 21:53:15 I think it's rather silly I get absolutely same dbus msgs for press event and for release event for any arbitrary switch, like e.g. lockslider or proximity sensor Jul 27 21:53:59 signal sender=:1.13 -> dest=(null destination) serial=18709 path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_kb_lock; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition Jul 27 21:54:00 string "ButtonPressed" Jul 27 21:54:02 string "cover" Jul 27 21:54:25 always string "ButtonPressed", even on release-button event Jul 27 21:54:56 no other int changing from 1 to 0, or a boolean from true to false or anything Jul 27 21:55:12 looks like a fat bug to me Jul 27 21:55:13 well Jul 27 21:55:26 apparently, the device locked thing is in the old hd Jul 27 21:55:33 I just never noticed it Jul 27 21:56:04 :) Jul 27 21:56:46 lcuk, don't smile, you didn't notice it too :P Jul 27 21:57:18 lcuk: any ideas? I just did a `dbus-monitor --system` and compared all the jaggedijagg on button press and on button release Jul 27 21:57:33 DocScrutinizer, read about GPIO switches :) Jul 27 21:57:46 where? what? why? Jul 27 21:57:55 the lock switch is GPIO afaik Jul 27 21:58:22 [18824.537536] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed Jul 27 21:58:22 [18824.967437] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open Jul 27 21:58:23 just everything is GPIO possibly, but what does it tell me about dbus msgs? Jul 27 21:58:52 DocScrutinizer, you should already know what to do about it Jul 27 21:59:05 file a bug? Jul 27 21:59:30 i was thinking more get your soldering iron out and fix it in silicon, but yeah filing a bug works Jul 27 22:00:07 LOL Jul 27 22:00:14 GAN900 suggests filing bugs is moot since cert expired Jul 27 22:00:30 MohammadAG, have you considered having a go at any of the other hildon-desktop bugs Jul 27 22:00:48 to see if you could fix one for real Jul 27 22:01:00 me? fixing a bug in C? Jul 27 22:01:01 DocScrutinizer, then leave the status quo Jul 27 22:01:03 yes Jul 27 22:01:03 also what means that friggin >string "cover"< ? Jul 27 22:02:19 who's the component to file the bug against? I bet mce once again >:-( Jul 27 22:02:31 s/who/what Jul 27 22:02:46 DocScrutinizer: I think those are the lists of properties that changed state, and that you have to do a HAL function call to retrieve the new state for Jul 27 22:03:43 that's as stupid a definition/specification of a dbus msg I could think about Jul 27 22:04:38 ok, there's also that cryptic (sorry for paste): Jul 27 22:04:41 signal sender=org.freedesktop.DBus -> dest=(null destination) serial=2842 path=/org/freedesktop/DBus; interface=org.freedesktop.DBus; member=NameOwnerChanged Jul 27 22:04:43 string ":1.1405" Jul 27 22:04:44 string "" Jul 27 22:04:45 hey all, just added a new script called "im-accounts" to the mission control wiki if anyone is interested in a CLI command to control your IM accounts: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Mission_Control#Set_all_SIP_accounts_to_online_or_offline Jul 27 22:04:46 string ":1.1405" Jul 27 22:04:56 3. Keep the alarm running until it loses hope <--- LOL how does an alarm lose hope? Jul 27 22:05:02 DocScrutinizer: well, you're not supposed to use dbus, you're supposed to use libhal. Jul 27 22:05:12 uhuh Jul 27 22:05:21 wtf? Jul 27 22:06:12 I always thought dbus was implemeted to use it Jul 27 22:06:51 hal is built on top of dbus, and to reduce traffic the new states aren't transmitted unless you ask for it Jul 27 22:07:40 perhaps stupid design, but not a bug Jul 27 22:08:14 that's nonsense Jul 27 22:10:02 either the message gets a string "ButtonReleased" instead of string "ButtonPressed", or an additional boolean that is true on button pess and false on button release. Where's the rationale about ""traffic""? Jul 27 22:10:09 I could put up on the web my code to notify my sdl program about the cam shutter state if you want Jul 27 22:11:59 I'd be more interested in a working rule for dbus_scripting daemon, to trigger an event on button press of a particular button, instead of triggering on button press AND button release, of ALL buttons Jul 27 22:12:50 I'm well aware I can read out /sys and do all sorts of shit and jumping hoops Jul 27 22:13:08 but that's not what I thought dbus is meant to work like Jul 27 22:13:25 you're not supposed to use /sys, you're supposed to use libhal Jul 27 22:13:32 that'S daft, and for me smells like a fat stinky bug Jul 27 22:13:48 I'm not supposed, WTF?? Jul 27 22:14:01 well, then file a bug on libhal for "stupid design", but it's not a maemo platform bug Jul 27 22:14:47 I'm going to use libhal in a shellscript, sure Jul 27 22:14:52 nite all, sweet dreams Jul 27 22:16:02 well, I don't need to touch /sys, libhal_device_get_property() on the changed property gives you the new state, my program calls it from the property_modified callback you register with libhal Jul 27 22:16:39 is this a good place to ask for help with sbrsh, or should I hit up #maemo-devel? Jul 27 22:16:39 with libhal_device_add_property_watch() Jul 27 22:16:44 sending random noise bullshit msgs over dbus on arbitrary events, and then define API as "wait for random noise, then go use libfoo to figure out what actually triggered that", that's clearly a bug as fat as it can be Jul 27 22:17:56 DocScrutinizer: well, I told you what to do; if you think a design used by desktop linux everywhere is a "bug", file that where it belongs, it's not maemo's bug Jul 27 22:18:18 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# libhal_device_get_property() Jul 27 22:18:19 > Jul 27 22:18:21 > -sh: syntax error: end of file unexpected Jul 27 22:18:22 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# Jul 27 22:19:08 o_O Jul 27 22:19:23 that isn't something you'd use in a shell script, I'm sure Jul 27 22:19:56 obviously that won't work... using a tool like dbus-send is more likely to work... Jul 27 22:20:55 or perhaps use hal-get-property Jul 27 22:21:12 villager: tell me - why is there a dbus msg like Jul 27 22:21:14 signal sender=:1.20 -> dest=(null destination) serial=29158 path=/com/nokia/phone/net; interface=Phone.Net; member=signal_strength_change Jul 27 22:21:15 byte 66 Jul 27 22:21:17 byte 90 Jul 27 22:21:19 while - according to your logic - it should say >string "signalstrengtChanged"< and I'm supposed to use libisi to find out about the new signal strength? Jul 27 22:21:40 well, I guess because it's not using hal. Jul 27 22:21:50 and since when is it "my logic"? Jul 27 22:22:17 do you seriously think I'm *defending* hal? Jul 27 22:23:51 I think this is a bug, and I don't realy buy your rationale why it's not Jul 27 22:24:31 documenting sucks ass Jul 27 22:24:51 heh Jul 27 22:25:00 you told me about reducing traffic which obviously is moot, then you tell me constantly what I'm supposed to do/use Jul 27 22:25:18 ieatlint, nokia thinks documenting is obsolete Jul 27 22:25:22 see /usr/sbin/docpurge Jul 27 22:25:38 heh, i've noticed already Jul 27 22:25:39 MohammadAG: hehe Jul 27 22:25:56 MohammadAG, you know exactly why that was done Jul 27 22:26:01 the only "decent" docs maemo has are for gtk and qt -- because they're done by gtk and qt Jul 27 22:26:08 lcuk, yeah, cause hackers don't read docs Jul 27 22:26:27 and is directly related to historical space Jul 27 22:26:30 MohammadAG: what'd'you think about neopwn? Jul 27 22:26:33 I'm just a pragmatist, I'm usually more interested in making things work, than I am in raging and deliberately refusing to implement something in a way that might work, and filing bugs about "I don't like how this widely-used piece of software works, design it the way I like it" Jul 27 22:26:49 crashanddie, vaporware Jul 27 22:26:56 villager, he only wondered why it sent the presed state twice Jul 27 22:27:03 pressed Jul 27 22:27:09 presssed Jul 27 22:27:18 press sed? Jul 27 22:27:33 lcuk: yes, but I explained it... the pressed state changed, and he has to call hal-get-property to get the new state... then he started raving and ranting about it Jul 27 22:27:45 MohammadAG: I'd love to be wrong on this one, but I'm kinda agreeing with you. Jul 27 22:28:13 villager, it would be nice to see if its a bug even if nothing can be done about it Jul 27 22:28:16 villager: that's the mindset that constantly gives us poorly architected and specified, buggy implemented and wacky working apps all the time Jul 27 22:28:39 anyway, i am resting Jul 27 22:28:44 \o gnite all Jul 27 22:28:44 lcuk: night mate Jul 27 22:28:44 MohammadAG: i had to dig through the source code of some random maemo library (libmodest-dbus-client) in order to find out the dbus implementation for composing mail from another application Jul 27 22:29:07 nn lcuk Jul 27 22:29:22 the maemo.org wiki told me to use libmodest-dbus-client and libosso and glib in order to do this Jul 27 22:29:30 it's just a signal fucking dbus call Jul 27 22:29:45 bleh, single Jul 27 22:29:45 hehe Jul 27 22:29:54 don't get me wrong, there's nothing odd in implementing a decent workaround for a bug in a system you use. But simply accepting it's overly silly and complicated to use, just because there's a bug in specs or implementation somewhere, that's not hte right attitude Jul 27 22:30:09 DocScrutinizer: I haven't stopped you from filing a bug... I've only said to file it to the people *actually responsible* Jul 27 22:30:27 villager: appreciated, thanks Jul 27 22:30:36 DocScrutinizer: which isn't maemo. Jul 27 22:30:52 seems you got a point on that one, yes Jul 27 22:33:08 excuse me, is there a way to tell the maemo-sdk-install-wizard to just use what's already downloaded? it wants to redownload all the scratchbox packages everytime Jul 27 22:34:01 -c Jul 27 22:34:37 this is the PyQt wizard one Jul 27 22:35:04 I'm having problems with the command line version: ERROR: /opt/scratchbox/dev does not contain standard device nodes! Jul 27 22:36:08 maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py: error: no such option: -c Jul 27 22:36:41 oh, that piece of shit Jul 27 22:36:45 idk, use the script Jul 27 22:36:58 heh :) Jul 27 22:37:37 well, yeah unfortunately, it doesn't work for me either. I'm on Fedora, so I used the tar.gz scratchbox packages instead of the .deb ones Jul 27 22:39:45 Jucato: random shot in the dark here, but "mount -o bind /dev /opt/scratchbox/dev" might fix that error Jul 27 22:40:23 he'll probably get more errors Jul 27 22:42:12 villager: yet on tests on laptop I don't get *any* button-release event related d-bus msgs. Just for button press, so that's kinda sane (within the paradigma of such msg signaling a user input or event of any form) Jul 27 22:42:32 hmm Jul 27 22:42:34 weird Jul 27 22:42:43 my device asked for the lock code at startup Jul 27 22:42:51 Who's hte author of flashlight - I forget Jul 27 22:43:02 having two indistinguishable msgs on dbus for button-press and button-release seems insane Jul 27 22:43:12 http://maemo.org/packages/view/flashlight-applet ? Jul 27 22:43:33 MohammadAG: you are a robot? Jul 27 22:43:56 ah Jul 27 22:44:07 I suspect I may have found a novel use for it. Jul 27 22:44:17 DocScrutinizer, no, I'm a bit faster Jul 27 22:44:23 In a shirt pocket (with a hole) - using it as a light to pick raspberries. Jul 27 22:44:27 ...than light Jul 27 22:44:49 SpeedEvil: you're nuts Jul 27 22:44:55 :-D Jul 27 22:45:02 no, rasperries. Jul 27 22:45:06 _way_ too many of them. Jul 27 22:45:17 lol Jul 27 22:45:19 DocScrutinizer: well, I get ButtonPressed both when I close and open the laptop lid Jul 27 22:45:29 not here Jul 27 22:45:53 my laptop goes into standby when I pull out the charger LOL Jul 27 22:46:00 need to reinstall ubuntu Jul 27 22:46:02 so seems that's the point where the specs weren't clear enough Jul 27 22:46:03 hmm Jul 27 22:46:10 or I could dump it for debian Jul 27 22:46:57 brb Jul 27 22:47:15 and especially on any special keys like e.g. multimedia_mute-audio I don't see any key-up events on dbus Jul 27 22:47:54 which - due to the nature of such key being a toggle - would certainly result in behaviour you don't expect Jul 27 22:47:59 DocScrutinizer: the acpi multimedia key events are apparently only sent once though, I guess they don't have release events at all Jul 27 22:48:13 exactly Jul 27 22:48:18 fuzzy specs Jul 27 22:48:38 the target for bugticket gets clearer Jul 27 22:48:45 libhal probably has some property saying whether it's a toggle or not Jul 27 22:49:27 hmm, lockslider switch on N900 evidently is a toggle Jul 27 22:49:43 much the same as mite multimedia is Jul 27 22:49:46 mute* Jul 27 22:50:09 * MohammadAG51 needs a quick fix for his headset Jul 27 22:50:17 huh? Jul 27 22:50:21 is there any way to force audio to the jack instead of the speakers? Jul 27 22:50:29 hm yes, there's a "has_state" on the laptop lid device, but not on the multimedia key devices Jul 27 22:50:33 errrm Jul 27 22:50:56 so that's why I get the property change event on both open and close Jul 27 22:51:20 mhm, and on mine it's probably not like that Jul 27 22:52:06 that's a really extremely poor definition of a signaling format and protocol Jul 27 22:59:20 villager: anyway this: Jul 27 22:59:22 signal sender=:1.0 -> dest=(null destination) serial=965376 path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer_logicaldev_input_3; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=Condition Jul 27 22:59:23 string "ButtonPressed" Jul 27 22:59:25 string "lid" Jul 27 22:59:43 and the previously quoted mute button msg Jul 27 23:00:14 make me wonder if the "cover" string in N900 really is that great Jul 27 23:01:18 MohammadAG: hehe now I realize why I was getting device errors. somehow, my /dev was empty :) Jul 27 23:01:35 LOL Jul 27 23:01:40 well, "cover" would be the name of the button Jul 27 23:01:56 must have rm'ed something by mistake (just woke up) :P Jul 27 23:01:59 at least as identified by hal Jul 27 23:02:10 Jucato, hmm Jul 27 23:02:17 did you rm -rf /scratchbox/*? Jul 27 23:02:26 earlier, yeah Jul 27 23:02:31 anyway, gotta go I guess, it's late Jul 27 23:02:39 DocScrutinizer, see? that's what killed my i5 Jul 27 23:02:52 then some rm failed, noticed there were some bind mounted stuff. just realized I probably nuked /dev too :) Jul 27 23:03:09 Jucato, same thing happened here about a month ago Jul 27 23:03:18 i left my i5 in IL running Jul 27 23:03:30 i rm -rf'd /scratchbox/* Jul 27 23:03:36 i couldn't ssh back into it Jul 27 23:04:03 NICs should wake up when power goes down, seriously... Jul 27 23:04:36 villager: strange thing: I get "cover" for lockslider switch as well Jul 27 23:05:14 heh this is almost similar to how I rm'ed my $HOME a few years ago ... but that time I was chrooted and my $HOME was linked/mounted >.< Jul 27 23:05:33 also done when I just woke up ... Jul 27 23:05:35 villager: and for kbd-slider Jul 27 23:05:54 so that's definitely a bug now Jul 27 23:06:01 against N900/maemo Jul 27 23:06:20 prolly a WONTFIX tbh Jul 27 23:06:52 MohammadAG51: actually a CANTFIX Jul 27 23:07:12 DocScrutinizer, maybe in the new bugzilla version Jul 27 23:07:14 as you're not supposed to break a API spec to fix a bug Jul 27 23:07:26 hey, google does it Jul 27 23:07:40 see zoutube, it's dead now Jul 27 23:07:49 even though it was quite a useful app :( Jul 27 23:08:04 you must by all means keep backward compatibility as much as possible, there might be apps relying on that buggy behaviour Jul 27 23:08:51 so only way is to define a new *additional* dbus-msg sending the proper switch name, and possibly also the state as well Jul 27 23:11:07 now it's pretty clear why dbus-scripting daemon had no means to connect the playback of that kbd slider sound to the kbd only (not to mention to kbd OPEN only) Jul 27 23:12:03 it's all the same random dbus msg, for arbitrary buttons press and release events Jul 27 23:12:15 DocScrutinizer: what insane policy is that? Jul 27 23:12:26 ask villager :-D Jul 27 23:12:32 if apps are relying on undocumented and even buggy behaviour, they deserve to be broken Jul 27 23:13:23 hehe, so apps using dbus generally meet that definition, as dbus msgs obviously are rarely ever specified Jul 27 23:13:29 aka documented Jul 27 23:14:07 so using dbus == using undocumented features Jul 27 23:15:40 luke-jr: anyway I tend to agree with you about we could evaluate how likely it is that there's any number of apps out there that relys on kbd-slider called "cover" in dbus msg Jul 27 23:16:28 and then conclude it's not worth the ugly scheme of keeping that bug for compatibility reasons Jul 27 23:18:51 luke-jr: any app coder using this specific behaviour should have noticed there's something stinking fishy, and should have filed a ticket very same moment, then think about a way to implement a workaround that does not break when the bug gets fixed Jul 27 23:20:20 how would I identify the process called "signal sender=:1.13" ? Jul 27 23:20:34 I bet it's mce, but you never know Jul 27 23:22:30 DocScrutinizer: while the "cover" string is not different, the UDI path is different for lock and shutter Jul 27 23:22:58 yes, but that's not exactly what we expected, no? Jul 27 23:23:22 ok, you got me. these msgs are not exactly same Jul 27 23:24:02 each device is its own namespace I guess, so each gpio switch can have something called "cover" I suppose, as long as they're different device paths Jul 27 23:24:22 villager: you got any pointer to the freedesktop or whatever specs about that particular dbus msg? Jul 27 23:24:38 the whole sysfs gpio-switch path is not supported by Linux Jul 27 23:24:40 so.. Jul 27 23:24:45 not handy right now... I just searched for docs with google when I needed'em Jul 27 23:25:02 anyway now I really should go to bed... gotta get up early Jul 27 23:25:16 night villager :-) Jul 27 23:25:29 night Jul 27 23:39:05 haha, dbus-scripting daemon doesn't support matching on path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_kb_lock; >:-O Jul 27 23:39:55 * DocScrutinizer gets out the lart and wonders to whom to apply it Jul 27 23:42:54 oh noes. Jul 27 23:44:28 DocScrutinizer: 's ok, you can olways lart me if no other suspects are around :) Jul 27 23:44:37 OMFG, restricting the swoosh sound to kbd-slide-open means I need to keep state copy of the slide, as nobody will tell me the dbus event actually was for kbd slide, or possibly random other switch and kbd is open since epoch Jul 27 23:45:57 well, I could do a tail dmesg and hope no other spam scrolled out the event, and it wasn't just the wrong event happening shortly after actually opening the kbd :-/ Jul 27 23:46:26 sweeeeeeeet Jul 27 23:46:40 you don't have different dbus events for keyboard slide close and keyboard slide open? Jul 27 23:46:53 nope Jul 27 23:47:50 and I got even practically (as of dbus-scripting daemon) indistinguishable events for *any* key pres and release event Jul 27 23:48:36 isn't there a readily available state flag to see this -- if the slide is open or closed? Jul 27 23:48:44 you have to keep track yourself? Jul 27 23:48:45 this is what I got in /etc/dbus-scripting.d/dbus-scripts-settings: Jul 27 23:48:54 /etc/dbus-scripts.d/playswoosh * * org.freedesktop.Hal.Device Condition ButtonPressed cover Jul 27 23:49:40 and it triggers an proximity sensor, scrennlock slider, cam lens slide... everything Jul 27 23:49:47 on open and on close Jul 27 23:49:51 :| Jul 27 23:50:32 ptl: and nope, I got no flag anywhere in system that could *easily* tell me "_last_ event was kbd-open" Jul 27 23:50:52 I just can check if kbd *is* open or closed Jul 27 23:52:31 seems awkward! Jul 27 23:52:36 so I need a local copy of kbd slider state, and compare that to actual state of kbd on each dbus event for arbitrary key, and just execute the action if states of local copy and real thing differ Jul 27 23:52:43 so is $520 for an n900 worth it? Jul 27 23:52:50 nope!!! Jul 27 23:52:53 lol Jul 27 23:53:05 DocScrutinizer: cheaper? Jul 27 23:53:06 papertigers: nevermind Jul 27 23:53:14 depends on how much $520 is worth for you :P Jul 27 23:53:20 I'm just extremly upset atm Jul 27 23:53:35 Kegetys: not money thing, just is it cheaper elsewhere Jul 27 23:54:31 here in Europe you can get for same amount of EUR, so I can't comment Jul 27 23:55:04 For me it would be worth. Even with its downsides, the N900 was one of my best acquisitions ever. Jul 27 23:55:20 ack Jul 27 23:55:43 despite that dbus switch signalling idiocy Jul 27 23:56:04 lol Jul 27 23:57:14 I'd rate the N900 as a $300 smartphone, but not a $520 handheld computer Jul 27 23:57:29 damn, now it swooshes even when putting into pocket :-/ (prox sensor) - giving it a boot Jul 27 23:57:34 actually, let me revise that Jul 27 23:57:41 for me it's worth more than its cost :) Jul 27 23:57:56 I'll give it a $400 smartphone+digital camera+light GPS Jul 27 23:58:17 basically, it replaces a couple of handheld appliances, but doesn't fit the "computer" bill Jul 27 23:58:17 I have a nexus one but I want this as a mobile tablet that I can write python apps for, and switch out sims if wanted Jul 27 23:58:36 papertigers: you can write apps, sure Jul 27 23:59:08 but you could write apps for [Android] phones too Jul 28 00:00:44 luke-jr: python * Jul 28 00:00:46 dont like java Jul 28 00:01:07 papertigers: meh, Python's not much better Jul 28 00:01:14 luke-jr: love it Jul 28 00:04:40 luke-jr: http://pastebin.ca/1909711 Jul 28 00:05:33 * luke-jr marks SpeedEvil's house on his map Jul 28 00:05:37 (sign issue with altitude rate) Jul 28 00:05:57 free raspberries for the next week. Jul 28 00:05:59 hmm, really? Jul 28 00:06:06 Pick your own Jul 28 00:06:13 you're at -104.5m alt? Jul 28 00:06:16 eys Jul 28 00:06:17 Hello happy people. Jul 28 00:06:20 hrmmm Jul 28 00:06:25 I'm running out of freezer space Jul 28 00:06:55 no - + Jul 28 00:07:12 that site is at +106.2m +-10cm Jul 28 00:07:51 SpeedEvil: I lost your hexdumps ☹ Jul 28 00:08:01 err Jul 28 00:08:08 what's the problem then? Jul 28 00:08:49 look at the alt rate Jul 28 00:09:12 it goes from small positive to 65530cm/s or so Jul 28 00:10:00 ah Jul 28 00:10:02 climb Jul 28 00:11:52 there probably *is* a signing problem with altitude too Jul 28 00:12:01 but I'm not really sure how to check :p Jul 28 00:12:04 I found the hexdump file - would it be of use? Jul 28 00:12:19 hire a submarint Jul 28 00:12:21 no, I know what you mean now ☺ Jul 28 00:12:26 SpeedEvil: does GPS work underwater? Jul 28 00:12:59 anyone here in New Orleans or some other negative-altitude city? Jul 28 00:13:00 not significantly Jul 28 00:13:22 Also - have you checked it with anyone east of grenwich> Jul 28 00:13:57 SpeedEvil: if you want to test, the climb bug should be fixed at the same URI Jul 28 00:14:01 SpeedEvil: no, why? Jul 28 00:14:29 similar issue possibly Jul 28 00:14:36 where? Jul 28 00:14:59 speed is always positive Jul 28 00:15:54 I mean when longitude goes negative Jul 28 00:17:30 SpeedEvil: Longitude is already negative for me and you :P Jul 28 00:17:41 and I put the same code for Latitude Jul 28 00:18:52 oh - doh Jul 28 00:20:20 It updates 5 sat positions per packet? Jul 28 00:21:25 Oh - also - it doesn't seem to disturb other GPS apps Jul 28 00:23:11 SpeedEvil: it just dumps what the GPS says :p Jul 28 00:23:19 SpeedEvil: it does for me, when I exit it Jul 28 00:23:27 if they're running then Jul 28 00:24:22 hmm Jul 28 00:24:33 I've been running a GPX logger since ... Jul 28 00:24:35 I'm pretty sure the core code doesn't interfere with the Maemo GPS daemon Jul 28 00:24:41 but the start might Jul 28 00:24:45 and the stop definitely does Jul 28 00:25:01 since 10:40 Jul 28 00:25:08 if you strip the start/stop out, it will only dump when Maemo starts/stops the GPS ☺ Jul 28 00:25:21 SpeedEvil: note Maemo will continue to report the same lat/lon and such even when the GPS is dead Jul 28 00:25:33 and forgot I'd been running 'gps' beforehand - started it and it worked fine Jul 28 00:25:40 hmm Jul 28 00:26:15 seems to work here Jul 28 00:26:34 then I killed gps, ran gps2, and it still works, carrying on logging Jul 28 00:27:31 oh well Jul 28 00:27:37 if you have to reboot, don't say I didn't warn you Jul 28 00:28:23 not like it'd be the end of the world :P Jul 28 00:37:21 SpeedEvil: bq24150 reports 82% 3.95V on discharge, 4.16V during charging, bat icon shows 50%, lshald thinks 2/8 bars and 14%... o.O Jul 28 00:41:42 :) Jul 28 00:41:56 luke-jr: you say ^C to strace attached to a running process disturbs or breaks that process? Jul 28 00:42:11 no? Jul 28 00:42:13 or is your app not using the strace hack? Jul 28 00:42:23 it's not Jul 28 00:42:30 aah ok Jul 28 00:42:32 it's opening a direct phonet socket Jul 28 00:42:46 it doesn't require any proprietary software Jul 28 00:43:08 i c Jul 28 00:45:33 yay SDK up! installing nokia-binary stuff. btw, how do I know if I'm on pr 1.2 already? Jul 28 00:45:51 (also, I thought pr 1.2 would make Qt installed by default?) Jul 28 00:49:59 DocScrutinizer: though it does require cellmo to be initialized; I would be interested in someone else testing my initcellmo binary ;) Jul 28 00:57:16 MohammadAG51: thank you for your guide :D http://www.nokiausers.net/forum/nokia-n900/31920-howto-get-linux-maemo-sdk-w-emulator-running.html Jul 28 01:17:48 anyone know how to connect the SDK emulator (the one running on Xephyr) to Qt Creator so that when I have Maemo as a target in Creator and click on run, it will run there? (I have no device yet) Jul 28 02:10:39 SpeedEvil: fingerscrolling in xterm pumps up the current drawn from battery from 230 to 500 Jul 28 02:11:11 and that's with display at maximum Jul 28 02:13:54 with display at minimum it's like 120 to 450 Jul 28 02:15:22 even down to 100 Jul 28 02:16:18 2G, WLAN, bq-script running loop 5 Jul 28 02:16:35 and xchat Jul 28 02:16:35 \o/ compositing Jul 28 02:16:37 yeah Jul 28 02:16:45 antialiased vector fonts Jul 28 02:16:51 hehe Jul 28 02:16:52 minimum is surprisingly light Jul 28 02:17:01 even playing video if the codec is supported Jul 28 02:17:52 video playback bypasses sgx :) Jul 28 02:18:09 yay, xcat activity (this one prolly) pushed it to 250 Jul 28 02:19:06 well, cranking up again, to hit dead flat before going to sleep Jul 28 02:19:11 ydzh Jul 28 02:19:16 ydzj Jul 28 02:19:19 yeah Jul 28 02:20:31 lshal got better idea bout batstate now, after charging finished Jul 28 02:21:08 bbl Jul 28 02:22:40 btw, bought a BL-5J today, for fun and features Jul 28 02:24:26 o2 shop: 50EUR, unpacked BL-5J (?) from handyshop impexp 15EUR Jul 28 02:25:24 For use, or abuse? Jul 28 02:25:32 abuse Jul 28 02:26:40 get me desktop charger tomorrow Jul 28 02:27:23 l8r Jul 28 02:27:32 o/ Jul 28 02:30:20 wave Jul 28 02:30:27 anyone know if screen rotation is possible on the emulator (Xephyr)? Jul 28 02:31:58 I suppose other than xrandr - o left onthe host? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 28 02:59:56 2010