**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 14 02:59:57 2010 Aug 14 03:00:02 qualifier keys like alt never worked for me, even when customized to xterm toolbar Aug 14 03:00:05 but some people don't mind others knowing they are talking, they just don't want them to know what they are saying Aug 14 03:00:35 so now way to have alt on n900? Aug 14 03:00:58 nox-, remap keyboard? Aug 14 03:01:05 TiagoTiago: yes, I also sometimes prefer not to hear what somebody is saying Aug 14 03:01:25 xnt14, ah that works? Aug 14 03:01:38 stick your fingers in your earholes and sing lahalahlah very loud Aug 14 03:01:55 nox-, hmm, apparently... - http://natisbad.org/N900/n900-keyboard-remapping.html Aug 14 03:02:23 http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Keyboard_characters Aug 14 03:03:27 thx :) Aug 14 03:04:34 TiagoTiago: nah, I'm fine with all the way it is. It's just I don't get why somebody would think about how to use a secret code when shouting across the market square. There are quite obviously better ways to do that Aug 14 03:05:11 perhaps they wanna rub on toher people's faces they aren't part of the convo? Aug 14 03:05:19 and I bet your next post is with a ? at end Aug 14 03:05:26 hah knew it Aug 14 03:05:36 lol Aug 14 03:07:42 TiagoTiago: /join #openmoko-devel :-P You know, we engineers are talking about megasecret secrets in this secret channel, since so long it's secret I can't tell you :-P Aug 14 03:07:57 lol Aug 14 03:08:17 and no fish around there Aug 14 03:09:01 fish is BS and nonsense Aug 14 03:09:14 bbl Aug 14 03:09:16 there gotta be an encryption system for chatting that for third parties appear to be just two chatbots locked in debate Aug 14 03:09:19 fo rnoobs who think they look geek that way Aug 14 03:09:58 TiagoTiago, hmm, how would that work... Aug 14 03:10:17 I remember there was a proof-of-concept twitter botnet... Aug 14 03:10:32 chatbots often speak weirdly, msgs would be encoded in variations on the weirdness Aug 14 03:10:35 basically normal twitter messages and hash tags controlled the botnet Aug 14 03:10:48 hmm Aug 14 03:10:57 !burn something Aug 14 03:11:00 err Aug 14 03:11:07 ~burn something Aug 14 03:11:09 * infobot pours gasoline all over something, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Aug 14 03:11:15 how is that weird? :P Aug 14 03:11:18 perhaps emulating ELIZA by repeating certain parts of previous msgs, which parts are repated would also encode more data Aug 14 03:11:27 * xnt14 googles Aug 14 03:11:29 so I gather TiagoTiago has to be a chatbot ;-P Aug 14 03:11:34 lol Aug 14 03:12:27 i've met several turing drop outs, and even once doubted a human was not a bot, but i'm do'nt remember ever being compared to one while chatting naturally Aug 14 03:13:37 brb Aug 14 03:13:38 though i do recognize somtimes the style of my prose might be considered non-normal, and even awkward Aug 14 03:13:55 and kinda floody Aug 14 03:14:40 DocScrutinizer: tell the key! Aug 14 03:14:47 l? Aug 14 03:14:57 nope Aug 14 03:16:07 i use lots of words, explain myself attempting to not leave a doubt, and insist on providing corrections on many errors the readers would likelly deduce themselves, i guess i don't feel confortable when i can't be sure other people are keeping up with me nor when there is even a slight chance they will think my spelling and grammar skills are worse than they really are Aug 14 03:16:52 qed Aug 14 03:17:32 but... how is that related to /topic ? Aug 14 03:17:46 TiagoTiago: /join #yandere Aug 14 03:17:47 wasn't it you that brought it up? Aug 14 03:18:15 what's there lu? Aug 14 03:18:22 ernm what happened witht he tab? Aug 14 03:18:34 luke-jr* Aug 14 03:18:34 TiagoTiago: I ate your tab key Aug 14 03:18:38 TiagoTiago: IRC game Aug 14 03:18:40 lol Aug 14 03:18:44 more appropriate for random rambling Aug 14 03:19:07 oh, isee Aug 14 03:19:20 because we can lynch you if it's annoying Aug 14 03:19:23 well, when people touch on topic topics, i do restrain myself here Aug 14 03:19:38 or at least i try to Aug 14 03:22:53 I am almost sure now, I want an N900 Aug 14 03:24:49 see? no one is saying anything, so random talk right now wouldn't interfere with any on topic convos Aug 14 03:25:15 it's interfering with my nerves when reading backscroll Aug 14 03:25:35 I see Aug 14 03:26:53 and, btw, those silence periods tend to be much more frequent and prolonged after some user stopped talking OT monolog. Probably because everybody turned away Aug 14 03:27:48 've seen them happen when on topic convos died out as well Aug 14 03:28:34 another useful post Aug 14 03:28:53 that was an reply to somthing you said Aug 14 03:29:02 hmm Aug 14 03:29:07 g2g - sleep Aug 14 03:29:26 night Aug 14 03:31:06 haha, there's a package called liblongcat for maemo.. Aug 14 03:31:18 :-) Aug 14 03:31:36 not sure what it does, just saw it on an upgrade list Aug 14 03:32:06 "A base plugin for writing accounts plugins, which makes it easier and needs less code." Aug 14 04:19:46 hi Aug 14 04:20:59 I have a n00b question about the maemo5 kernel. Aug 14 04:21:07 shoot Aug 14 04:21:27 hi, I'm trying to send files through BT to my pc but it always fails, I have a second cellphone and it works Aug 14 04:21:28 where is it located ? I am looking for a zImage file. right? Aug 14 04:21:49 I mean on the N900.. Aug 14 04:22:31 it displays connection error: and that's all... Aug 14 04:23:15 archebyte: /dev/mtd0p? Aug 14 04:25:28 SpeedEvil: hmm.. I have several mtd??? entries but no mtd0p.. Aug 14 04:26:04 I am basically trying to run kexec and want to specify the kernel as a parameter.. Aug 14 04:30:34 ok now I see it can be my pc problem.... Aug 14 04:31:51 archebyte: why? Aug 14 04:32:32 trying out Meego: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/kexec Aug 14 04:32:45 cat /proc/mtd Aug 14 04:32:50 /dev/mtd3 Aug 14 04:35:09 SpeedEvil: thnx. will give that a shot! Aug 14 04:40:18 The N900 just turned black..probably off. after the kexec -e :) Aug 14 04:41:53 will battle it again tomorrow. thanks! Aug 14 04:47:50 hey when i connect my n900 to ubuntu it does not show documents folder Aug 14 04:48:38 i see dcim drive mapper etc Aug 14 04:48:47 documents is not showen? Aug 14 04:49:25 i just want to transfer some files from ubuntu to n900 documents folder thats all ? Aug 14 04:51:48 IS there a way to use the N900 as a 3G hotspot? A free way... Aug 14 04:53:13 yes Aug 14 04:54:00 http://maemo.org/packages/view/mobilehotspot/ Aug 14 05:42:25 SpeedEvil: Thanks Aug 14 06:20:56 yawn Aug 14 06:27:57 * timoph offers Stskeeps cup of black coffee Aug 14 06:36:04 so with maemo autobuilder and a Qt project, why doesn't "!maemo5:SUBDIRS += foo" work? Aug 14 07:08:46 yay Aug 14 07:09:08 rest easy ladies and gents, nobdy 0.0.3 is now in maemo extras Aug 14 07:09:18 err, extras-devel Aug 14 07:09:20 :P Aug 14 07:09:24 * trip0 passes out Aug 14 07:09:29 g'night Aug 14 07:37:31 my n900 is loosing the signal very often. In such cases I enter in offline mode, and then to the normal mode again, and the signal appear. is there some workaround for this problem? Aug 14 07:44:38 i think you've discovered the workaround Aug 14 07:45:18 hehe Aug 14 07:46:04 my n900 started to show a "no sim card" alert... I put a folded paper between the sim card holder and the battery, and this alert stopped Aug 14 07:46:09 but now I'm with this one Aug 14 07:46:43 your n900 doesn't seem to like working as a phone then? Aug 14 07:49:07 hahaha Aug 14 07:49:12 ya Aug 14 07:49:36 the problem of the signal is not the phone stuff... but the 3g associated hehe Aug 14 07:50:13 My suggestion would be backup + reflash Aug 14 07:50:27 reflashing seems to make the device faster too Aug 14 07:50:31 I'm planning change to a company in which I unlimited use the 3g Aug 14 07:50:39 what is reflash? Aug 14 07:50:55 reinstalling the firmware Aug 14 07:51:12 hmmm so I install a new firmware? Aug 14 07:51:17 You need to reinstall all the software after that but it's quite easy to do if you have the backup Aug 14 07:51:49 That's what I would do. Another option is that you take it to service and have them do it for you. Aug 14 07:51:54 MiXu-, no problem... I have few apps installed Aug 14 07:52:09 hehe Aug 14 07:52:32 to reflash I need to download a more recent firmware, is it? Aug 14 07:52:47 https://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Windows Aug 14 07:52:57 ty! Aug 14 07:53:17 MiXu-, the updated that sometimes appear to do touches the firmware? Aug 14 07:53:26 It's all there, but make sure you read it all first. There's always a risk with flashing. Aug 14 07:53:51 Although I've done it a hundred times (not exaggerating) and haven't had problems. Aug 14 07:54:02 got it Aug 14 07:54:20 MiXu-, is it possible to know if now I have the most updated firmware? Aug 14 07:55:13 yeah, you can check it by pressing *#0000# in dialre Aug 14 07:55:15 *dialer Aug 14 07:56:00 If I recall correctly the newest is 2010.19-something Aug 14 07:56:02 how do i tell the mediaplayer to play a saved playlist from terminal? Aug 14 07:58:20 ty Aug 14 07:59:44 MiXu-, V 10.2010.19-1.002 Aug 14 08:00:09 do I need to reflash even in this case that I have the newest version? Aug 14 08:00:26 Ok, that's the newest one then. You should download RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin Aug 14 08:00:53 hmmmm Aug 14 08:01:03 There's the download link in the wiki Aug 14 08:04:25 ty Aug 14 08:07:53 MiXu-, do u think it could be some contact problem of my sim card? maybe I need to put a bigger paper... Aug 14 08:09:03 It is possible. I don't know how the device reacts if the sim card comes loose while it's running. Aug 14 08:09:23 But the fact that offline -> online cycle fixes it suggests something else is wrong Aug 14 08:09:38 i've been having sim problems Aug 14 08:09:51 turns out sim cards in jordan are shit, shove a paper in there Aug 14 08:09:54 At least for me the sim fits pretty tightly. If yours is really loose, then it's possible that more paper would help :) Aug 14 08:10:16 i have two layers on the sim Aug 14 08:10:31 haha Aug 14 08:10:41 did u put the paper inside the sim card holder? Aug 14 08:10:59 yeah, on the non-contact part of course Aug 14 08:11:12 I'd use some tape instead of paper but it's your call :) Aug 14 08:11:16 put the paper on the holder then slide it Aug 14 08:11:16 MiXu-, if this is a firmware problem, the reflash will solve even if I have the newest firmware? Aug 14 08:11:33 MohammadAG51, worked? Aug 14 08:11:44 MiXu-, tape might go bad if the device gets hot Aug 14 08:11:56 I put the paper between sim card holder and battery Aug 14 08:11:58 astruasdh: Yes it's possible. I had an issue with the device not ringing on incoming calls. That was fixed with a reflash. Aug 14 08:12:00 astruasdh, yeah, doesn't cross out the sim anymore Aug 14 08:12:01 MohammadAG51: True Aug 14 08:12:39 MohammadAG51, I used to have a "no sim card" icon... before puting the paper, it stoped... but now I have no signal hehe Aug 14 08:12:55 hmm, same problem here Aug 14 08:12:59 ops, after put Aug 14 08:13:13 i used to answer calls, then it would drop them 2 minutes later Aug 14 08:13:16 or half a minute Aug 14 08:13:28 which pissed me off, since it would reconnect in 5s Aug 14 08:13:33 astruasdh: disabling and reenabling the phone does a search Aug 14 08:13:35 do u still have the sinal problem? Aug 14 08:13:42 yes Aug 14 08:13:49 same as changing frequencies Aug 14 08:13:49 kerio, I'm working around with offline/normal mode Aug 14 08:13:55 sometimes reloading the sim module works Aug 14 08:14:11 but the problem is that I dont know the time Aug 14 08:14:29 ssi_mcsaab_imp.ko afaik Aug 14 08:14:31 my cellphone stay in my pocket... and I notice sometimes when I will talk Aug 14 08:14:46 MohammadAG51, try to offline-mode and normal mode again Aug 14 08:14:49 this works for me Aug 14 08:15:10 well it's fixed now, just put a paper on the sim, quick easy fix Aug 14 08:15:13 I was thinking in writing some app to monitor the signal... if it drops, do the offline/normal modes Aug 14 08:15:28 MohammadAG51, 2 layers? Aug 14 08:15:30 Hmm. Okay I think I might know what the issue is. It's possible that it's actually a cellmo crash. Offline/normal cycle helps with that. Aug 14 08:16:03 I've had some of those when using packet data in places where network is very bad. Aug 14 08:16:19 Like while driving and listening to netradio Aug 14 08:16:41 what is cellmo? and is it possible to fix it? Aug 14 08:16:47 cellular modem Aug 14 08:17:55 If you have crash reporter installed it should let you know when it happens Aug 14 08:23:16 astruasdh, actually, 1 bent into 2 ;) Aug 14 08:25:41 MohammadAG51, done haha Aug 14 08:26:11 I'll try with a 2 layer paper over the sim before reflashing it Aug 14 08:26:18 if it fails, I'll reflash Aug 14 08:27:35 what's the best way to set up a personal repo? Aug 14 08:38:08 MohammadAG51, dunno Aug 14 08:38:12 have to go now Aug 14 08:38:15 cya! ty guys! Aug 14 08:42:39 MohammadAG51: just a repo or builder as well? Aug 14 08:42:54 repo, that's enough for me Aug 14 08:43:41 well, i'm using reprepro Aug 14 09:18:57 heyyyyyy Aug 14 09:35:52 Hi, can someone tell me how telepathy-idle (IRC for Conversations screen) works? Aug 14 09:37:02 works somehow. Aug 14 09:37:19 magic? Aug 14 09:39:40 I am unsure how to make it join channels Aug 14 09:40:04 an IRC option appears now in all my contacts on my N900 Aug 14 09:40:33 it does not join channels Aug 14 09:40:41 only lets you communicate via /msg Aug 14 09:40:45 :| Aug 14 09:41:02 * VoltageX_ runs apt-get remove Aug 14 09:41:13 hey is it possible to Aug 14 09:42:46 oops .. to see windows shares on n900? I'm looking for an easy way to transfer files wirelessly back to my pc Aug 14 09:42:52 upnp Aug 14 09:43:06 but yes Aug 14 09:43:13 samba can do it in easy debian Aug 14 09:43:20 and iirc there was native app as well Aug 14 09:43:38 but it may be simpler to do it over scp from pc Aug 14 09:43:41 native app would be nice, haven't used easy debian Aug 14 09:44:12 jacekowski: yeah, but I'm looking at a scenario when I'm not at the computer Aug 14 09:44:25 or if you have ssh-server running on the device you can use scp. winscp in case of windows Aug 14 09:44:36 try apt-get install samba Aug 14 09:44:38 should work Aug 14 09:45:24 depends: update-inetd but it is not installable Aug 14 09:47:42 what about wizard-mounter Aug 14 09:49:02 that looks insteresting Aug 14 10:01:16 if I have extras-testing enabled, but I want to pull a specific package from extras, what's the correct thing to pass to apt-get -t *release* packagename Aug 14 10:01:53 -t? Aug 14 10:02:06 apt-get install packagename=versionnumber Aug 14 10:02:34 on debian it would be apt-get -t stable packagename Aug 14 10:02:58 I doubt anyone updates the changelog so it has stable instead of unstable Aug 14 10:03:31 no as in, stable, testing, unstable, experimental Aug 14 10:04:16 I know, but afaik those are defined in the changelog Aug 14 10:04:37 I doubt anyone follows standards Aug 14 10:04:43 they are defined in the package system Aug 14 10:04:53 as in extras, extras-testing and extras-devel Aug 14 10:05:02 never seen that, you could try :) Aug 14 10:05:45 packagename=version worked Aug 14 10:06:05 but I've used -t for temporary pinning on debian proper, there must be an equivalent in Maemo Aug 14 10:06:42 not sure, you could ask X-Fade Aug 14 10:07:10 damn, now fmradio is really broken Aug 14 10:07:38 upgraded to devel by accident - the UI is broken. downgraded to extras, and now it doesn't start Aug 14 10:08:39 wow, IMAP is slow on modest Aug 14 10:11:15 hmm, is it imap that's a problem? Aug 14 10:11:31 i was always thinking that it's modest problem in general Aug 14 10:12:15 I think it's modest Aug 14 10:12:24 I've never used IMAP before, only used Nokia Messaging Aug 14 10:12:32 (afaik that uses IMAP too, but it has a plugin on its own) Aug 14 10:16:40 Strange, found the icon "camera_vide_pause" but the camera app doesn't allow you to pause video, (something I find kind of annoying) :/ Aug 14 10:22:51 note to self, do not use batttest -b 0 Aug 14 10:30:39 wtf Aug 14 10:30:39 dpkg: error processing phone-control (--configure): Aug 14 10:30:40 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 255 Aug 14 10:33:04 0xFF Aug 14 10:33:56 can someone please try to install phone-control from the repos? 0.2-3, postinst and postrm fail on my device, but they work on scratchbox Aug 14 10:35:36 hi there Aug 14 10:36:17 can someone tell me how i tell the mediaplayer to start a saved playlist from command line? Aug 14 10:37:40 BluesLee: probably through dbus Aug 14 10:38:04 BluesLee: it's a couple of dbus messages. Aug 14 10:38:17 use dbus monitor and the media player to see which ones. Aug 14 10:38:48 crashanddie: i know that but the playlist seems to be hidden, maybe in the mafw sql database Aug 14 10:40:16 i want to use MohammadAG's script with desktop command widget for easy connecting and playing resp stopping using a headset Aug 14 10:40:30 MohammadAG51: ping Aug 14 10:40:34 ? Aug 14 10:40:36 pong Aug 14 10:40:59 hi, thanx for the script which makes live easier Aug 14 10:41:07 you're welcome :) Aug 14 10:41:10 does it install fine btw? Aug 14 10:41:18 yes Aug 14 10:41:24 hmm, my N900's f'd then Aug 14 10:41:46 you mean the latest version? Aug 14 10:41:57 yeah, and the one before Aug 14 10:42:05 i installed it 4-5 hours ago Aug 14 10:42:08 they didn't install on my device, they installed fine on scratchbox Aug 14 10:42:20 mind checking if the new one works? Aug 14 10:42:36 0.1 Aug 14 10:42:45 sure, one moment Aug 14 10:43:19 MohammadAG: should i upgrade or re-install the package? Aug 14 10:43:30 upgrade Aug 14 10:43:37 heya lcukn900 Aug 14 10:43:37 Anyone ever got subtitles working in the Media Player? I mean, ANYONE at all? Aug 14 10:43:42 moo lcuk Aug 14 10:44:49 Hrm, I wonder how I'm supposed to process +/- key presses in QML .. Aug 14 10:45:01 check wiki? Aug 14 10:45:16 hey Aug 14 10:45:30 you are not supposed to program in QML. you are supposed to program in C++. Aug 14 10:46:23 Why have key press event mechanisms then? ... Aug 14 10:46:39 MohammadAG: upgrade works Aug 14 10:46:51 alterego: megalomania. Aug 14 10:47:01 oooh crap, my N900's borked then Aug 14 10:47:15 I just want to do it for prototyping :P Aug 14 10:47:21 MohammadAG: playing a track with the mp gives me additional logs? something like "method return sender= ..." Aug 14 10:47:25 I guess it's almost time for me to move it into a proper project thoug Aug 14 10:47:28 ~though Aug 14 10:47:32 BluesLee, dbus replies Aug 14 10:47:45 I could filter them out I guess Aug 14 10:48:43 MohammadAG: i have a question though which should be possible with your script Aug 14 10:48:55 shoot Aug 14 10:50:31 MohammadAG: i want to use it in connection with the desktop command widgte or queenbee doing following: if bt is off -> turn it on, sleep 15 s, in the meantime i turn on my headset, start playinf a playlist with the mediaplayer Aug 14 10:51:09 hmm, there isn't a way to start playing a playlist afaik Aug 14 10:51:26 MohammadAG: if bt is on -> stopp mediaplayer, turn it off Aug 14 10:51:32 hmm Aug 14 10:51:50 I could be wrong, I'm not a dbus person :P Aug 14 10:51:56 * MohammadAG pokes alterego Aug 14 10:52:10 i could switch to an alternative player but i dont know if it would support my headset Aug 14 10:52:29 doesn't pulseaudio route audio to a headset Aug 14 10:52:40 okay Aug 14 10:52:43 i.e all audio should be routed? Aug 14 10:52:53 don't have a BT headset (yet), so can't test :) Aug 14 10:53:16 bt headset should mean everything is routed Aug 14 10:53:33 hmm, bt headset + fm transmitter should allow for music + call Aug 14 10:53:43 MohammadAG: how should the option --mp-resume work? Aug 14 10:53:47 actually, bt headset + normal speaker should Aug 14 10:53:57 thats fine Aug 14 10:54:11 --mp-resume? resumes a paused song afiak Aug 14 10:54:13 it *should*, i don't know if it does Aug 14 10:54:25 MohammadAG: it resumes the song but i cant see the media player Aug 14 10:54:44 it's not supposed to open the media player Aug 14 10:55:02 ideally you should Aug 14 10:55:04 er Aug 14 10:55:12 (same signal is passed by the desktop widget) Aug 14 10:55:19 you should be able to play different songs to different audio outputs Aug 14 10:55:26 MohammadAG: it would be enough if i could do it manually from command line and then resume with your script Aug 14 10:56:01 opening media player + resume, in that case i dont need playlists Aug 14 10:56:42 kerio: i will try out media center or alternatives Aug 14 10:58:05 how i start the mediaplayer from command line?:-) Aug 14 11:00:48 hmm, sec Aug 14 11:01:30 dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr.LaunchApplication string:"mediaplayer" Aug 14 11:01:36 could be added as a parameter I suppose Aug 14 11:01:51 i.e phone-control --mp-resume launch Aug 14 11:02:01 would be fine Aug 14 11:02:10 k, adding it now Aug 14 11:02:20 i will check the combination "opening mp" + resume with script Aug 14 11:04:56 looks good Aug 14 11:06:22 meow RST38h Aug 14 11:09:12 neverthless the mediaplayer doesnt seem to be intelligent enough, i have playlist of several songs, when i exit the mediaplayer and resume it doesnt show me the latest used playlist, it shows me only the latest song Aug 14 11:09:38 it played Aug 14 11:10:04 Working on my own photo viewer and camera app: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/imaging/Screenshot-20100814-120409.png Aug 14 11:10:28 alterego, simulate multitouch to zoom Aug 14 11:10:37 god I'm an ass :P Aug 14 11:10:57 +++++ no complaints there MohammadAG :P Aug 14 11:11:01 I've decided to do the viewer, because I want to include geolocation and tagging contacts in images. Aug 14 11:11:02 alterego: good idea with transperancy! Aug 14 11:11:02 xD Aug 14 11:11:20 BluesLee: those widgets also fade in and out when you're not touching the screen. Aug 14 11:11:25 alterego, on a more serious note, are you using fcam? Aug 14 11:11:28 ooooh alterego i like your button glyph Aug 14 11:11:32 can I borrow it? Aug 14 11:11:32 fcam's api that is Aug 14 11:11:39 MohammadAG: on an equally serious note, yes I am :P Aug 14 11:11:58 lcuk: it's pure qml Aug 14 11:12:06 alterego, and on a less serious note, does it have xenon? Aug 14 11:12:14 alterego, where is the background coming from? Aug 14 11:12:14 i hope someone puts all the fcam stuff together in one big app Aug 14 11:12:19 semi translucent etc Aug 14 11:12:55 * MohammadAG is liking the looks of this Aug 14 11:13:06 lcuk: http://pastie.org/1091916 Aug 14 11:13:19 That's the QML code, should be easy to convert that to SVG Aug 14 11:13:29 dont need svg Aug 14 11:13:42 Basically it's just a single rectangle, 10 pixel rounded corners and a gradient background Aug 14 11:14:35 With 60% opacity :) Aug 14 11:16:16 ta alterego Aug 14 11:16:22 look at these 2 Aug 14 11:16:27 http://github.com/lcuk/liqcalc/raw/master/liqcalc.screenshot.png Aug 14 11:16:27 http://liqbase.net/liq.20100805_010741.portraittest_cover_label1_dialog.scr.png Aug 14 11:17:07 for why I am asking about that button :) Aug 14 11:18:14 Well, sure, you can use the button :) Aug 14 11:19:17 :) Aug 14 11:19:40 Oh, that's nice :) Aug 14 11:19:53 (had some inital problems looking at the links. Aug 14 11:20:18 "SOLAR CELL" paahahaha :) Aug 14 11:21:09 alterego that solar cell is the only bit that works atm :$ Aug 14 11:21:17 I was thinking of putting specular shading like you have in the second link, but I couldn't make it look good enough last night. I might try again at somepoint. Aug 14 11:21:19 pressing finger over it makes the screen dim :P Aug 14 11:21:26 Hahah Aug 14 11:21:31 Oh, fun :) Aug 14 11:21:35 the first buttons have shading too Aug 14 11:21:39 just very subtle Aug 14 11:22:31 You need a proper LCD like display so you can do the little pranks as a kid, boobless and stuff when you turn it upside down :) Aug 14 11:22:43 mediacenter looks great Aug 14 11:23:20 At the moment the image in my viewer mockup is "flickable" for panning. Aug 14 11:23:22 but it doesnt interplay with my bt headset controls bh-214 Aug 14 11:24:00 Gonna integrate it with my C++ app to add zoom buttom support and proper image loading etc. Aug 14 11:24:28 * lcuk wrote 55378008 and 71077345 as first things :$ Aug 14 11:24:32 And then I'm gonna do the geolocation and contact tagging. Aug 14 11:24:42 :) Aug 14 11:25:20 If I get really adventurous, I might add auto contact tagging using avatar images :x Aug 14 11:25:24 alterego, pleased to see a close button on the bottom for a change Aug 14 11:25:48 I'm thinking of removing that ... Aug 14 11:26:02 heh Aug 14 11:26:40 its in the wrong place still anyway ;) thats the accept location Aug 14 11:27:14 hmm Aug 14 11:27:15 alterego, Aug 14 11:27:16 I might do it on its own, top left (just icon) Aug 14 11:27:19 * MohammadAG wonders how to get volume level Aug 14 11:27:22 how would you make that rectangle green? Aug 14 11:27:27 ie Aug 14 11:27:27 MohammadAG: dbus Aug 14 11:27:32 yeah, how :P Aug 14 11:27:36 you have instance, and it sets it own color inside Aug 14 11:27:44 but what if (like in my calc sense) Aug 14 11:27:49 you wanted a greeen version Aug 14 11:27:51 apparently it's not dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.get_extension_property string:volume Aug 14 11:27:54 would you have to make new instance Aug 14 11:27:59 errr new definition Aug 14 11:28:05 for green_rectangle? Aug 14 11:28:21 or can you assign the color of it after you create it? Aug 14 11:28:25 lcuk: I'd just change the red component of the color values to geen Aug 14 11:28:42 you manually? Aug 14 11:28:48 recurse through object? Aug 14 11:28:53 or set a stylesheet property? Aug 14 11:29:02 explicitly through id Aug 14 11:29:06 one recurse per object you want to tint? Aug 14 11:29:18 so if i have 10 buttons (like calculator) Aug 14 11:29:25 that need to be different colors Aug 14 11:29:36 I'll be working on dynamic colours/themes in a bit Aug 14 11:29:42 yeah Aug 14 11:29:49 You basically just want three or four bitmaps of different colours thoug hdon't you? Aug 14 11:29:53 at the moment, the color/tint of the buttons on my calc Aug 14 11:29:54 (you're not using QML like me) Aug 14 11:30:01 I just set the backcolor, it applies a tint Aug 14 11:30:08 to the nice overlay glyph Aug 14 11:30:20 no, its 1 glyph Aug 14 11:30:25 that gets colorised Aug 14 11:30:30 so if the glyph is missing Aug 14 11:30:34 the UI still works Aug 14 11:30:36 Ah, well, convert to greyscale, then apply an overlay with the tint Aug 14 11:30:50 (remember, for ages original liqbase just had buttons with a color and a title Aug 14 11:31:18 ie my crap looking buttons Aug 14 11:32:30 is it skinnable? Aug 14 11:32:31 alterego, so in qml Aug 14 11:32:49 wtf is subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 255 about :( Aug 14 11:33:06 does not like you Aug 14 11:33:21 jacekowski, look here Aug 14 11:33:34 http://github.com/lcuk/liqcalc/raw/master/liqcalc.screenshot.png Aug 14 11:33:40 Well, in QML I'm going to just edit the colours programmatically through ID association Aug 14 11:33:41 http://liqbase.net/liq.20100805_010741.portraittest_cover_label1_dialog.scr.png Aug 14 11:33:47 jacekowski: were you talking to me? Aug 14 11:33:57 not in last 5 minutes Aug 14 11:34:39 alterego, if I create an instance of Rectangle Aug 14 11:34:40 Just wondering about the skinning question :P Aug 14 11:34:45 and set its backcolor Aug 14 11:34:58 can it do the overlay thing you mentioned internally Aug 14 11:35:14 why are you writing another calculator? Aug 14 11:35:18 what's wrong with python? Aug 14 11:35:19 Not sure what you mean by "internally" Aug 14 11:35:26 so the mere act of creating a RoundRect (better name) could have one with nice border color applied Aug 14 11:35:36 kerio: this is lcuk you're talking about, he's all about the reinventing wheels :P Aug 14 11:35:45 reinventing *ugly* wheels Aug 14 11:35:50 i keed, i keed Aug 14 11:35:53 it's beautiful Aug 14 11:35:55 Besides, it's not like anyone has done a calc for his platform :P Aug 14 11:37:20 kerio, alterego - its not a calculator Aug 14 11:37:23 its a solar panel Aug 14 11:37:33 :) Aug 14 11:37:37 Heh Aug 14 11:37:38 oh, the calculator is just the thing that makes it possible? Aug 14 11:39:43 alterego, to explain, can you just paste a little bit of the code where you create instances of your Rectangle class please Aug 14 11:39:48 lcuk: well, the "Rectangle" element in QML has a border attribute Aug 14 11:39:55 And a radius for rounding attribute Aug 14 11:40:38 Okay, hang on Aug 14 11:41:16 morning VDVsx \o Aug 14 11:41:21 lcuk: how is this going to help you btw? :P Aug 14 11:41:25 If you're not using QML? Aug 14 11:41:42 alterego, its going to help explain a question I would like to ask you Aug 14 11:41:47 it's been a long time since claws-mail been updated for maemo, any one knows why? it is possibly the only usable mail client -for me at least Aug 14 11:41:48 lcuk, hello, hows life ? :D Aug 14 11:41:55 Okay Aug 14 11:42:10 life is a little fuzzy this morning. Aug 14 11:42:17 * lcuk drank lots last night Aug 14 11:42:23 and tried to watch "Brazil" Aug 14 11:43:24 lcuk, same here :P, but I'm fine, no fuzziness Aug 14 11:44:00 whats the weather like in HEL today VDVsx? Aug 14 11:44:19 hey frals Aug 14 11:44:29 frals, darkish, more storms coming it seems Aug 14 11:44:58 VDVsx: ah, so i made the correct move going to stockholm with +30 and sun ;) Aug 14 11:45:01 o/ lcuk Aug 14 11:45:11 hmm, there's nothing i can do to fix a flash that doesn't work on the n900 (microb) right? Aug 14 11:45:11 haha Aug 14 11:45:21 heya VDVsx, what's new and exciting development-wise? Aug 14 11:45:27 pigeon, what do you mena Aug 14 11:45:29 mean* Aug 14 11:45:29 frals, true, still hot here, but the sun is a bit shy today Aug 14 11:45:44 RST38h, cocoa :P Aug 14 11:45:55 MohammadAG: like... the flash plugin is closed source... and i don't have the source for the flash either... Aug 14 11:46:15 k, I know that Aug 14 11:46:39 hi. i am trying to use the application manager to upgrade maoemo on my N900 and it silently fails. is there something i am doing wrong? Aug 14 11:46:51 pigeon, contact Kevin Lynch and ask him to release it. he is sitting on his hands on an update. Aug 14 11:47:12 http://nokia-n900.com/flash-player-10-1-on-nokia-n900/ Aug 14 11:48:25 hmm Aug 14 11:48:31 is it safe to use apt to upgrade maemo? Aug 14 11:48:36 lcuk: http://pastie.org/1091940 Aug 14 11:48:47 user_, E: Handler Silently Failed? Aug 14 11:48:48 lcuk: I just implemented the theming engine for you for that example :P Aug 14 11:48:53 user_, " to upgrade maoemo on my N900 " You just made my tongue fall out Aug 14 11:49:01 lcuk: As the colours were actually hard coded into my ToolButton class before. Aug 14 11:49:09 try saying "maoemo" out loud Aug 14 11:49:18 lol Aug 14 11:49:43 alterego, that still does notlet me ask question Aug 14 11:49:44 VDVsx: Don't tell me you have joined the cult =) Aug 14 11:49:53 lcuk: what's the question then? :P Aug 14 11:49:56 can you paste the bit where you would make 2 instances of toolbutton Aug 14 11:50:02 for handler silently failed, you need a haxxored apt package Aug 14 11:50:08 ugh.. Aug 14 11:50:11 i want to see how you declare them Aug 14 11:50:15 now I'm not sure if this is legal... cough, http://mohammadag.ucoz.com/apt_0.7.20.2maemo13.1_0m5latest_armel.deb oops Aug 14 11:50:25 lcuk: that pastie is how I declare one. Aug 14 11:50:33 RST38h, no just kidding, never touched that thing :D Aug 14 11:50:35 * lcuk slaps you with a rotten trout Aug 14 11:50:37 user_ ^ Aug 14 11:50:41 Copy and paste it, then change the "color" property to something else. Aug 14 11:50:49 VDVsx: uffff Aug 14 11:50:54 user_: long press on the update -> details Aug 14 11:50:54 MohammadAG: thanks..is it worth trying an apt upgrade first? Aug 14 11:51:03 alterego, but that does not create a Rectangle within it Aug 14 11:51:14 user_, what exactly are you trying to do? Aug 14 11:51:26 so thats not the same thing Aug 14 11:52:03 lcuk: no, my "ToolButton" class defines three rectangles, the attributes in that pastie are routed to either the rectangle that does a colour overlay (color), or the rectangle that does just the border overlay (border.{color,width}) Aug 14 11:52:07 MohammadAG: i see maemo in the updates section of my application manager and clicked on it. i have never upgraded maemo on this device. Aug 14 11:52:21 oh, then don't use my package Aug 14 11:52:36 thought you were trying to update an ovi store package Aug 14 11:52:43 no.. Aug 14 11:53:03 alterego, then where in the second definition do you tell it that ToolButton is a subclass of Rectangle? Aug 14 11:53:07 i would simply like to upgrade maemo yet cannot. Aug 14 11:53:26 because at the moment there is no context and I cannot understand what you are showing me Aug 14 11:53:34 you showed rectangle Aug 14 11:53:34 lcuk: ToolButton is an "Item" with three child rectangles. Aug 14 11:53:39 then you showed toolbutton Aug 14 11:53:46 lcuk: http://pastie.org/1091946 Aug 14 11:53:54 That is the source/definition for "ToolButton" Aug 14 11:54:26 what is the future of Maemo btw? i hear a lot of speculative talk that it's about to merge into an intel project. Aug 14 11:54:50 bingo alterego - and now it makes sense! Aug 14 11:54:58 lcuk: :) Aug 14 11:55:00 thanks, that was the missing linkup :P Aug 14 11:55:36 user_, "about to merge" lol: http://meego.com/ Aug 14 11:55:46 lcuk: Well, you just asked me how _I_ declare instances of my class :P Aug 14 11:55:52 yeah I did Aug 14 11:56:00 You should have asked for the class definition :P Aug 14 11:56:01 but I tohught you were going to continue with Rectangle Aug 14 11:56:06 so the connection was lost Aug 14 11:56:14 you had already given a definition! Aug 14 11:56:18 of Rectangle Aug 14 11:56:21 No, sorry. I didn't realize you wanted another "definition" Aug 14 11:56:27 I was wondering how you used it Aug 14 11:56:27 Yeah, that was a mock up :P Aug 14 11:56:35 * lcuk nods Aug 14 11:57:09 ok Aug 14 11:57:38 Next I need to make the transition for when you press it and release your finger change the colour and not just brightness. Aug 14 11:57:41 so, in the definition of Toolbutton, is there a constructor area? so that I could do some custom stuff Aug 14 11:57:45 (For added customizability) :) Aug 14 11:58:17 like recurse and set colors based on variation of the single "color" property to all the member branches of ToolButton Aug 14 11:58:18 lcuk: qml is declarative, so I'm not sure what you mean "Constructor stuff" Aug 14 11:58:41 You shouldn't need to Aug 14 11:58:47 so there is no active code viable, its entirely pre determined? Aug 14 11:58:51 That example you said wasn't what you were looking for. Aug 14 11:58:55 never say never.. :P Aug 14 11:58:57 No, hang on. Aug 14 11:59:28 right, you have OnPressed: handler Aug 14 11:59:33 is there an OnCreate: Aug 14 11:59:35 or something Aug 14 11:59:36 Yeah, ignore all that ;) Aug 14 11:59:43 and so I could run some JS or something Aug 14 11:59:46 lcuk: there is, I'm not sure you need it Aug 14 11:59:55 lcuk: yeah there is, don't know off hand, hang on Aug 14 11:59:56 curiosity Aug 14 12:00:01 :) Aug 14 12:00:15 lcuk: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qdeclarativejavascript.html Aug 14 12:00:24 On that page somewhere :P Aug 14 12:00:47 yeah, I see Aug 14 12:01:30 I might want to set the border color to the inverse of the back color (for instance) Aug 14 12:01:42 without having to manually assign 2 different properties at design time Aug 14 12:01:59 lcuk: http://pastie.org/1091948 Aug 14 12:02:08 so would just use some javascript to do flipping in the OnCreate Aug 14 12:02:10 That creates three buttons, red, green and blue Aug 14 12:02:19 (in a row) Aug 14 12:02:26 yes Aug 14 12:02:27 :) Aug 14 12:02:51 Not sure what you want the javascript init stuff for, you just declare your interface like that. Aug 14 12:03:05 Once you've done all your buttons in the grid, then it's all done right? Aug 14 12:03:06 so, like I said Aug 14 12:03:20 if I wanted the bordercolor of a toolbutton to be the Complement color Aug 14 12:03:20 You can access these properties from C++ if that's what you mean. Aug 14 12:03:26 ie, inverse of Aug 14 12:03:29 the backcolor Aug 14 12:03:31 You can dyncamilly change them in C++ Aug 14 12:03:37 Oh, okay. Aug 14 12:03:37 this is qml though? Aug 14 12:03:40 Yeah Aug 14 12:03:52 QML objects are accessible directly in C++ as QObjects Aug 14 12:04:10 QDeclarativeItem objects to be exact I think .. Aug 14 12:04:11 yes but that implies that a c++ app started it Aug 14 12:04:20 Yeah Aug 14 12:04:22 what if I just ran the qml itself Aug 14 12:04:26 as data Aug 14 12:04:44 Yeah, you'd need to rely on JavaScript Aug 14 12:04:52 * lcuk nods Aug 14 12:05:13 can I create new widgets stored as a proper binary .so file? Aug 14 12:05:20 plugins Aug 14 12:05:41 You can write widgets in C++ for QML yeah :) Aug 14 12:05:46 so that sometimes where needed I can have Toolbutton replaced by specific fully compiled c++ ToolButton Aug 14 12:06:03 nice Aug 14 12:06:54 Yeah, I'm doing something similar with my GPS app, porting these custom widgets to QML: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/columbus/Screenshot-20100715-235011.png Aug 14 12:07:26 that is a lovely layout btw :) Aug 14 12:07:37 ahah to upgrade maemo you need Windows? i have five computer, none of them with this OS.. Aug 14 12:07:49 lcuk: in landscape: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/columbus/Screenshot-20100715-145415.png Aug 14 12:07:55 ~flashing Aug 14 12:07:56 methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Aug 14 12:07:57 although the alignment on the bottom indicator values needs to be sorted Aug 14 12:08:15 the captions and the data are not lined up Aug 14 12:08:22 SpeedEvil: cheers.. Aug 14 12:08:31 hungry Aug 14 12:08:35 np Aug 14 12:09:03 lcuk: you know, I hadn't noticed the vertical alignment is screwed :/ Aug 14 12:09:10 ;) Aug 14 12:09:12 MohammadAG: can you add an option to your script to "kill" the mediaplayer via a dbus command? Aug 14 12:09:17 I guess it's default top aligned and not v centered. Aug 14 12:09:21 I'll have to fix that. Aug 14 12:09:31 killing the mediaplayer isn't a smart move Aug 14 12:09:41 killing the GUI keeps the backend running Aug 14 12:09:47 indeedly Aug 14 12:09:54 You can stop it using dbus though :) Aug 14 12:10:01 i mean that Aug 14 12:10:02 true, but it still is running Aug 14 12:10:12 therefore i wrote "kill" Aug 14 12:10:14 It's always running Aug 14 12:10:17 clean kill Aug 14 12:10:23 Well, mafw stops after idle I thought .. Aug 14 12:10:26 kill != clean kill :) Aug 14 12:10:26 Which stop will cause Aug 14 12:10:49 alterego: you sure that's right - vdop/hdop values look very high Aug 14 12:11:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilution_of_precision_%28GPS%29 Aug 14 12:11:12 i think i am fine with the default mp, mediabox doesnt support my bt headset control buttons, so ... Aug 14 12:11:25 SpeedEvil: I was inside? :) Aug 14 12:11:50 k - just checking Aug 14 12:11:57 alterego: you mean i should stop it and then kill the gui? Aug 14 12:12:08 BluesLee: well, yes that would work Aug 14 12:12:32 okay Aug 14 12:12:48 this dbus stuff is very interesting Aug 14 12:12:49 BluesLee what is gui ? Aug 14 12:13:11 Angelion: default mediaplayer Aug 14 12:13:54 * SpeedEvil stabs maemo dbus docs. Aug 14 12:15:16 Heh Aug 14 12:15:50 i bet there is dbus command to check if bluetooth is turned on or not Aug 14 12:15:52 :-) Aug 14 12:18:20 is there a more complete doc than http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control Aug 14 12:21:22 Many things you can't do with dbus Aug 14 12:21:34 As I understand it, the above is a user contributed doc. Aug 14 12:21:36 Like easily do anything? Aug 14 12:22:54 lcuk: I'm gonna try and compress it all into two rectangles, I've got a feeling QML will apply the unform color to a gradient with alpha elements on the colours. Aug 14 12:23:03 So I can get rid of the colour underlay Aug 14 12:25:07 Though, I'm replacing it with another rectangle for a background shadow. Aug 14 12:43:31 alterego: Don't forget the live overlay of the sky on that. :) (sun/moon/venus/...) Aug 14 12:47:55 Is there such a thing as a FTP sharing plugin that can upload directly to your FTP site without going through any third party? Aug 14 12:49:49 I would like to have a generic sharing plugin, that simply runs your-shellscript.sh file-to-be-shared Aug 14 12:50:07 yeah Aug 14 12:50:14 I was just thinking about typing that out. Aug 14 12:50:17 should be dead-easy to customize into doing anything.. although I suppose an ftp/sftp/http push uploader wouldn't be bad either. Aug 14 12:50:50 I want for example a drawing app. I have a lot of postit notes. Aug 14 12:51:34 I want to be able to scribble on a postit note, take a picture, upload it, in about a couple of button pushes to get to a resized to 640*480 uploaded postit on mywebsite/postit.jpg Aug 14 12:52:42 i recently looked at the api for that... it's not difficult Aug 14 12:53:43 Go for it! I would love you forever. Well - quite like you for at least 12 minutes. Aug 14 12:54:00 SpeedEvil: I was going to do luner phases and sun/moon position :P Aug 14 12:54:12 alterego: :) Aug 14 12:54:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRPa0GhxGUs - completely unrelated to anything. Aug 14 12:54:43 Hahah Aug 14 12:56:00 uh, i should probably actually go to bed rather than write code Aug 14 12:56:37 :) Aug 14 13:02:30 Af'noon, all Aug 14 13:03:55 Afternoon. Aug 14 13:13:35 * lcuk \0 Aug 14 13:15:17 Hmm...lcuk iz zero-terminated Aug 14 13:15:32 He must be a string. A C string. Aug 14 13:19:47 Heh Aug 14 13:20:34 Nokia-N900:~# update-sudoers Aug 14 13:20:34 Nokia-N900:~# cat /etc/sudoers Aug 14 13:20:34 cat: can't open '/etc/sudoers': No such file or directory Aug 14 13:20:41 must've broken something Aug 14 13:22:27 I'd say .. Aug 14 13:23:32 * MohammadAG reboots Aug 14 13:52:33 his last words Aug 14 13:53:01 no good idea to reboot when /etc/sudoers is missing Aug 14 13:54:44 oh shit Aug 14 13:54:50 well, I don't really care about sudoers, it's the fact other crap may have gone missing :P Aug 14 14:26:02 ugh .. i think i gotta reflash my n900 again .. "Internal error.Application 'Contacts' closed" every few seconds .. >.< Aug 14 14:27:39 or reboot Aug 14 14:27:51 MohammadAG, already tried that Aug 14 14:28:37 suddenly happens a few hours ago .. and i didnt install anything since yesterday .. Aug 14 14:28:47 not quite sure what i did Aug 14 14:28:49 >.< Aug 14 14:45:28 DocScrutinizer: did you try testing the sip call again? Aug 14 14:53:18 I just found maemo when I was looking for a new phone, and I have to admit that I came when I saw the N900 and maemo, but what im wondering now is if the N900 will continue to be The device for maemo for some time in the future, or is it worth waiting some time for a newer and improved device? sorry if this quiestion is a bit malplaced, but I didnt know where to go :) Aug 14 14:54:36 Nobody knows when the next device is arriving Aug 14 14:54:46 and then it'll be called MeeGo Aug 14 14:54:46 There will neverr be a new maemo device. Aug 14 14:54:50 that Aug 14 14:54:57 I love my n900. Aug 14 14:55:31 I'd buy another N900 Aug 14 14:55:32 n900 is wonderful more than iphone? Aug 14 14:55:50 depends Aug 14 14:56:02 For some, yes. Aug 14 14:56:04 if you want rock band on a 600MHz device, get an iPhone Aug 14 14:56:59 if you want to make sip calls get an android not N900. Aug 14 14:57:22 hmm, weird, I make sip calls on the N900 Aug 14 14:57:34 tried gizmo5 and skype Aug 14 14:58:53 MohammadAG: sip calls are quite choppy here. Can gizmo5 integrate well in N900? Aug 14 14:59:07 is there a proper way to ask for a reboot after installing a package? Aug 14 14:59:45 barisione, yes Aug 14 15:00:17 sudo reboot Aug 14 15:00:21 no Aug 14 15:00:29 XB-Maemo-Flags: reboot Aug 14 15:00:34 DocScrutinizer: not what people want :) Aug 14 15:00:39 MohammadAG: cool, thanks Aug 14 15:00:46 in debian/control Aug 14 15:01:00 _BUT_ I doubt fapman checks for it Aug 14 15:01:04 apt-get doesn't Aug 14 15:01:23 ShadowJK, actually, it wont be. Aug 14 15:01:28 ShadowJK, thank goodness. Aug 14 15:01:33 trumee: no, didn't do further tests Aug 14 15:02:00 GAN900, they changed their mind on calling maemo6 meego? Aug 14 15:02:15 DocScrutinizer: ok, whenever you have time. i will appreciate your feedback. Aug 14 15:02:51 ShadowJK, apparently. Aug 14 15:03:07 ShadowJK, although nobody's said what they're actually going to call it. Aug 14 15:03:15 MohammadAG: “Specifying this flag will reboot the device cleanly after the package has been installed. Also, all applications will be closed before installation and a suggestion is given to the user to make a backup.” :( Aug 14 15:03:16 lol Aug 14 15:03:32 I just want a reboot so that the policy configuration can be reloaded :( Aug 14 15:03:42 well, I will have to implement it by myself Aug 14 15:14:16 barisione: call rebot in psotinstall script Aug 14 15:14:34 I cannot reboot without warning the user Aug 14 15:14:34 err Aug 14 15:14:44 barisione: call reboot in postinstall script Aug 14 15:15:03 Hi! I had a hell of a time reflashing my n900, I should note for the future to not mess around with kernel modules that much. Aug 14 15:15:04 Anyway am I the only one who doesn't like the default touchscreen directions? I mean, is it not possible to invert the direction the screen moves, like for a mousewheel? Aug 14 15:15:06 for warning the user there are dbus notifications Aug 14 15:16:22 something like dialogyesno Aug 14 15:16:56 but that's probably a PITA to use over dbus from a script Aug 14 15:17:15 zenity is easy, but alas no default pkg Aug 14 15:22:56 barisione: but whatever, why are you unhappy with the way XB-Maemo-Flags:reboot is supposed to work? It sounds rather sane Aug 14 15:22:56 If this would be an option or a varible inside a hildon library, would this affect all programs globally? Or how is this set? I dumped the hildon settings with gcontool-2 and looked inside xorg.conf. Aug 14 15:24:02 DocScrutinizer: it seems to be something used for system updates and asks for a backup, et.c Aug 14 15:24:05 *etc. Aug 14 15:24:27 I just need to tell the user that rebooting is a good idea (or ringtoned will work, but the audio will freeze for a couple of seconds) Aug 14 15:24:49 so suggesting a backup is a sensible thing. Why do you think it interferes with what you plan to do? Aug 14 15:25:37 I have no idea, why did they choose to do it this way? I also miss the possibility to use the sidebar inside the file dialog to scroll up and down quicker. Aug 14 15:25:43 telling user about something is easily established by calling dbus notifier Aug 14 15:26:37 barisione: Aug 14 15:26:41 run-standalone.sh dbus-send --type=method_call \ Aug 14 15:26:43 --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications \ Aug 14 15:26:44 org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteInfoprint \ Aug 14 15:26:45 string:"restarting phone application" Aug 14 15:26:47 killall -9 rtcom-call-ui Aug 14 15:27:30 (form postinstall) Aug 14 15:28:08 how do I say in sh lang Aug 14 15:28:13 if osso-xterm is running, wait Aug 14 15:28:19 when osso-xterm exits, do Aug 14 15:29:35 okay no one knows when a new maemo (meego?) device is comeing, but are any under development or planned? maybe that knind of information isnt available for the general public Aug 14 15:30:01 we = general public :) Aug 14 15:30:01 DocScrutinizer: thanks Aug 14 15:30:07 yw Aug 14 15:30:27 I don't think even the people at inten/nokia working on MeeGo know when next device comes Aug 14 15:30:48 c3l: for nokia I can surely tell that it's not their policy to tell it in advance unless is ready Aug 14 15:31:02 MohammadAG: there's wait and ps and killall Aug 14 15:31:04 *tell you Aug 14 15:31:24 MohammadAG: yeah ;) but I don't know what the general public knows, ive been looking around but i havent found anything, so Im wondering if Im missed something, or maybe no news have been released regarding new devices Aug 14 15:31:49 No news. Aug 14 15:31:56 No news of any upcoming noia device. Aug 14 15:32:11 barisione: oh, thanks. I've never used nokia so I dont know how they do it, yet ;) Aug 14 15:32:12 Lies, there's the N8 :P Aug 14 15:32:43 N8 is symbian though Aug 14 15:32:54 so I guess its safe to go for the N900 then, happily it has become alot cheeper since release =) Aug 14 15:32:55 he didn't specify device type Aug 14 15:33:12 I did; maemo :) Aug 14 15:33:37 or meego, is that what the next version will be called, or is it something different? Aug 14 15:33:59 I'm just being an ass :P Aug 14 15:34:12 personally my own guess is "paper release" of a new device for christmas, but I have nothing to base that on :) Aug 14 15:34:27 MohammadAG: wait `pidof osso-xterm`; Aug 14 15:34:52 MeeGo is Maemo and Moblin merged, Maemo6 is probably a hybrid of Maemo and MeeGo.. Aug 14 15:35:16 that means the device is at least, what.. a year into the future. I cant wait that long to get rid of my iphone := Aug 14 15:36:11 MohammadAG: or maybe: while killall osso-xterm; do sleep 1; done # if you want to actively terminate it Aug 14 15:37:32 ShadowJK: a hybrid of maemo and a hybrid then Aug 14 15:38:23 c3l, what kind of background do you have? Why is Maemo looking appealing to you? Aug 14 15:41:42 November/December would be my guess for the planned date. Aug 14 15:41:52 yep Aug 14 15:41:55 tobis87, which way is that, exactly? Aug 14 15:42:07 tobis87, and just flick quickly to scroll quickly. Aug 14 15:42:38 ShadowJK: its debian based (and behaves like linux, opposed to the other linux based phone OS's like android), its basically a computer in my pocket, just what Ive been looking for :) Aug 14 15:42:38 quickly and repeatedly seems to speed it up alot Aug 14 15:42:55 ah :) Aug 14 15:43:34 c3l: how much does that change with meego? Aug 14 15:44:04 GAN900: admittedly scrolling long lists from one end to the other can get annoying Aug 14 15:44:36 DocScrutinizer, it's pretty good about going quickly if you flick quickly. Aug 14 15:44:44 well MeeGo is a new distro not based on debian anymore, but it's "standard linux" type still, not linux_kernel+newstuff like android Aug 14 15:44:54 zash: I dont know whats the difference is between maemo and meego.. the reason why Im asking if there'll be a new device out soone superceding the n900 id rather wait some time and get the lates - more powerful and developed device Aug 14 15:45:02 GAN900: tobis87: I don't get the idea of "to invert the direction the screen moves" Aug 14 15:45:09 also flick more before it starts slowing down, and it just goes faster and faster Aug 14 15:46:15 ShadowJK: isnt that the most common reason for why people use maemo? or are there alot "nongeeky" users? ;) Aug 14 15:46:22 tobis87: are you referring to pragma "drag paper" vs pragma "drag window across fixed papaer" Aug 14 15:46:23 ? Aug 14 15:46:28 DocScrutinizer, nor I. Aug 14 15:46:38 c31: yes there are alot of nongeeky users too Aug 14 15:46:41 I mean if I swipe the screen with my finger down, the screen moves up. Aug 14 15:46:56 I mean the content of the screen Aug 14 15:47:04 moves up Aug 14 15:47:10 tobis87, think for it like pulling a piece of paper around. Aug 14 15:47:12 c3l: maemo and another distro called moblin are merging, and the resulting project is called meego Aug 14 15:47:17 c3l: uhhh Aug 14 15:47:40 c3l: learn how Nokia does "it" before you buy anything Aug 14 15:48:11 c3l: it will still be a proper linux distro with glibc and xorg Aug 14 15:48:23 iirc it will use rpm instead of deb Aug 14 15:48:38 c3l: Maemo/MeeGo are not phone OS at all. They are Linux-derived, but not Linux-compatible nor GNU, and only "Debian-based" in that Maemo used .deb packages (MeeGo uses RPM) Aug 14 15:48:52 tobis87: yes, there are both concepts. Anyway the "move the paper" concept seems much more common nowadays Aug 14 15:48:59 c3l: N900 is a multifunction device, but not so great if you want a pocket computer Aug 14 15:49:10 GAN900: Yes, but I don't like it. It is irritating. As the wheel of a mouse works the other way. In the last time I also see myself trying to use gls on my pc. Aug 14 15:49:21 luke-jr: what do you mean by "not Linux-compatible"? Aug 14 15:49:34 BCMM: you can't run Maemo userland with a normal Linux kernel Aug 14 15:49:45 tobis87, you'll get used to it. Aug 14 15:49:50 luke-jr: oh, why not? Aug 14 15:49:59 BCMM: it requires non-standard kernel hacks Aug 14 15:50:08 What hacks? Aug 14 15:50:26 in MeeGo the policy is to have drivers upstreamed :) Aug 14 15:50:43 luke-jr: i mean obviously, the phone app and so on require special hardware, but do you mean to say that the maemo version of xchat wouldn't compile unmodified on any other ARM-based linux distro? Aug 14 15:50:48 yeah, MeeGo is a big step forward, except using RPM Aug 14 15:51:04 (for example) Aug 14 15:51:07 BCMM: it wouldn't, but that wasn't my point Aug 14 15:51:14 well what was your point? Aug 14 15:51:24 BCMM: that you can't just download Linux and run Maemo with it Aug 14 15:51:34 luke-jr: what should I go for if I want a pocket computer, Id like to be able to make calls with it too Aug 14 15:51:41 luke-jr: also, what did you mean by "not gnu"? Aug 14 15:51:51 it's has a normal glibc... Aug 14 15:51:56 BCMM: that when Nokia abandons N900, you're stuck with the last kernel they released Aug 14 15:52:00 BCMM: no, it doesn't. Aug 14 15:52:14 * luke-jr double-checks Aug 14 15:52:20 luke-jr, maybe not with the MeeGo-on-N900 efforts. Aug 14 15:52:46 luke-jr: why will i be stuck with the last kernel nokia releases? Aug 14 15:53:12 luke-jr: isn't there already an alternative kernel binary (compiled with different options) in extras? Aug 14 15:53:25 GAN900: for now Aug 14 15:53:26 luke-jr: it does have glibc, and there are some binary blob drivers for the graphics and gsm modem (and wireless and battery management as I understand from the conversation yesterday) Aug 14 15:53:30 it's the same kernel version though Aug 14 15:53:34 BCMM: different options is the same version Aug 14 15:53:41 GAN900: I have to, but It would still be nice if there is workaround for it. Aug 14 15:53:50 BCMM: glibc is just one small part of GNU Aug 14 15:53:52 luke-jr: loads of linux distros have slightly modified kernels Aug 14 15:53:56 BCMM: and not user-noticable Aug 14 15:54:04 BCMM: this isn't slightly modified Aug 14 15:54:13 BCMM: and most normal Linux distros work with unmodified ones Aug 14 15:54:15 luke-jr: oh, you mean not coming with teh full set of coreutils by default Aug 14 15:54:17 luke-jr: helps if you have actual details on what is user-noticeable Aug 14 15:54:23 but there is a package for them... Aug 14 15:54:30 Ford_Prefect: Maemo uses BusyBox Aug 14 15:54:54 the key point is that it is not a pocket computer Aug 14 15:54:55 luke-jr: what did you mena by n900 not being a good choise for a pocket computer? Aug 14 15:54:57 luke-jr: just about every embedded device out there does. Nothing stops you from installing coreutils and other things you want. Aug 14 15:55:06 if that's what someone wants, they will most likely be disappointed Aug 14 15:55:09 luke-jr: you seem to be saying that a few propriatary hardware drivers make it not count as a linux kernel Aug 14 15:55:15 c3l: the keyboard is terrible, for one Aug 14 15:55:28 luke-jr: what changes have been made to the kernel, other than adding drivers? Aug 14 15:55:30 BCMM: proprietary drivers are illegal, and not part of N900's kernel Aug 14 15:55:48 BCMM: non-standard userland APIs required by Maemo are added Aug 14 15:55:54 that will NEVER be supported in mainline Aug 14 15:55:56 it's not like there has been major messing-around with core bits of the kernel like on Android Aug 14 15:56:06 BCMM: with Maemo, there has been Aug 14 15:56:11 luke-jr: APIs added to the kernel? Aug 14 15:56:13 that's one problem to be fixed with MeeGo Aug 14 15:56:32 luke-jr: it is?:( ive read its nice, havent gotten a cahnce to try it out though, will do that as soon as possible. but are there any better alternatives for a pocket computer that can act as a phone? Aug 14 15:56:51 c3l: depends on what you mean by pocket computer Aug 14 15:57:00 c3l: not that I've experienced personally Aug 14 15:57:20 c3l: N810 was slightly better, but it doesn't have the cellular hw Aug 14 15:57:30 DocScrutinizer: The use of html emails is also more common nowadays, but it is still messed up. Aug 14 15:57:31 C760 had an awesome kb, but again no cell hw, and ancient Aug 14 15:57:51 IS01 might be interesting, but I haven't seen it yet Aug 14 15:58:29 Ford_Prefect: basically a device that fits in my pocket and is more or less as free as my desktop (though probably limited due to hw) Aug 14 15:58:32 Ford_Prefect: by pocket computer, I mean something as usable as a laptop Aug 14 15:58:58 Ford_Prefect: eg, I can write Perl, do work, etc, with it Aug 14 15:59:05 without a ton of pain Aug 14 15:59:23 the n900 does those Aug 14 15:59:28 for its time, C760 was perfect for that Aug 14 15:59:31 BCMM: uh, no :p Aug 14 15:59:41 well, it has perl, and it has vim Aug 14 15:59:44 perl on n900 keyboard might be cumbersome :) Aug 14 15:59:45 so you can write perl on it Aug 14 15:59:46 luke-jr: you can do all that on the N900. I can't imagine *why* you'd want to do that, but you can. Aug 14 15:59:47 BCMM: even if the software was all sorted out, the keyboard sucks too much for any real coding Aug 14 16:00:00 meh, i happily write LaTeX on the n900 keyboard Aug 14 16:00:12 tobis87: open up an arbitrary pdf viewer on your desktop linux or whatever OS. Dragging the paper around with mouse LMB click&hold is "move paper" pragma. What you refer to - also scrollwheel) is the scrollbar at side of a window. This isn't supported by clicking&dragging on arbitrary position of the window, no matter if done by mosue ot via touchscreen Aug 14 16:00:14 If you can work for extended periods on that small keyboard, hat's off to you Aug 14 16:00:16 anyway, i still want to know why you think it isn't "linux-compatible" Aug 14 16:00:20 And by small I even mean the N810 Aug 14 16:00:28 so basically the kb is what limits the n900? Aug 14 16:00:33 having busybox utilities by default isn't a huge issue, imho Aug 14 16:00:37 c3l: that, and proprietary software Aug 14 16:00:52 they are posix-compatible, and you can still install GNU coreutils if you require the gnu extensions Aug 14 16:01:02 * Ford_Prefect shakes head and goes back to hacking Aug 14 16:01:09 c3l: I'm working on a Gentoo port for N810 and N900 Aug 14 16:01:11 likewise, you can install bash if you don't like BB's sh implementation Aug 14 16:01:29 BCMM: not really. if you set bash as your default shell, it screws everything up Aug 14 16:01:40 luke-jr: what does it screw up? Aug 14 16:01:48 BCMM: Maemo scripts I guess Aug 14 16:01:52 from what i hear it won't boot Aug 14 16:02:14 anyway, in what sense is it not linux? Aug 14 16:02:26 luke-jr: you will never get away from proprietary software when its a os designed and maintained by a company like nokia, and especially when its desiigner for some specific hw, and also the cellular part needs proprietary software due to patents, or am I wrong? Aug 14 16:03:17 c3l: all the more reason not to get Nokia I guess. but they have been getting better Aug 14 16:03:18 c3l: for all that matters to me, it's the kbd and the size of screen (and missing buttons for e.g opening menus, the missing 3button mouse, etc) that "limits" the N900 use as a normal netbook class PC Aug 14 16:03:47 c3l: the cellular part is required by law to run on an independent CPU, so just firmware from the computer-side Aug 14 16:04:02 luke-jr: that's incorrect Aug 14 16:04:18 DocScrutinizer: in the US, at least Aug 14 16:04:46 or that's my understanding anyway Aug 14 16:04:46 DocScrutinizer: ah I see, thanks. do you know if theres any better alternative to the n900? Aug 14 16:05:00 I honestly doubt there's a law that says "linux mustn't run on same processor as parts of the GSM stack" Aug 14 16:05:13 apart from the fact that luke-jr can't suggest any other pocket-pc with phone capability other than scrutinising n900 for small keyboard and proprietary drivers, n900 is still the only choice for a decent linux based phone with almost a full blown linux distro shoved in it Aug 14 16:05:17 DocScrutinizer: Ah, I see. Maybe this is becaue I always click&hold the mousewheel, to move inside firefox and adobe reader. Aug 14 16:05:21 DocScrutinizer: no, the law is that the cellular part must be approved by the FCC as a whole Aug 14 16:05:26 c3l: not for me Aug 14 16:05:28 DocScrutinizer: all software changes need FCC approval Aug 14 16:05:39 so a system that is user-modifiable cannot be on the modem Aug 14 16:06:10 luke-jr: don't think that's true, see Software Freedom Law Center paper on atheros and free wifi drivers Aug 14 16:06:20 johnsu01: Wifi isn't GSM Aug 14 16:06:28 warrants are the same Aug 14 16:06:31 no Aug 14 16:06:38 WiFi is non-licensed spectrum Aug 14 16:06:40 FCC historically doesn't like user controllable soft radio Aug 14 16:06:53 luke-jr: again that's incorrect Aug 14 16:06:58 GSM is for the most part licensed Aug 14 16:07:01 the wifi concern is that users can interfere with other licensed spectrum Aug 14 16:07:06 if they can modify the radio Aug 14 16:07:13 luke-jr: they're both regulated Aug 14 16:07:13 so yes, it is the same warrant Aug 14 16:07:20 Ford_Prefect: but differently Aug 14 16:07:38 c3l, the other bit of downside you might find with n900 is its poor battery performance, you won't get many idle days on n900 without tweaking your n900 to using very minimal amount of processes, etc Aug 14 16:07:55 s/idle/standby/ Aug 14 16:07:56 psycho_oreos meant: c3l, the other bit of downside you might find with n900 is its poor battery performance, you won't get many standby days on n900 without tweaking your n900 to using very minimal amount of processes, etc Aug 14 16:08:15 cool bot Aug 14 16:08:15 luke-jr: FCC approval doesn't mean it's completely locking out the user from messing with it, neither does it mean the system as a whole is forbidden to be changed Aug 14 16:08:17 psycho_oreos: that's relative. I think N900 lasts quite a while idle. Aug 14 16:08:53 so long as R&D mode is disabled Aug 14 16:09:02 luke-jr, yes depends on how you use it, leaving it on whilst on 3G would last less than a day, using bluetooth for around 10 hours would severely drain the battery, etc Aug 14 16:09:10 psycho_oreos: one cant expect more than one day on battery from the smartphones, and im used to charging my iphone each night, ill survive :) thanks for the heads up' Aug 14 16:09:36 mine does ~3 days while on 3G Aug 14 16:09:37 psycho_oreos: a clean maemo install ootb will last several days on GSM standby, exactly like advertised by Nokia Aug 14 16:09:38 there was a guy on tmo that claimed his N900 only lasts 10 hours idle. Turned out his idea of "idle"included xchat,msn,gtalk,jabber,skype and facebook Aug 14 16:09:43 IIRC I got ~20 hours on 3G Aug 14 16:09:55 c3l, no worries Aug 14 16:10:24 ShadowJK: what good is an offline device? Aug 14 16:10:35 what in the world are you guys doing to get that long on 3G Aug 14 16:10:37 With just xchat on 2g I once got only 6 hours when I was out at sea on the edge of signal coverage :) Aug 14 16:10:48 johnsu01: disable R&D Aug 14 16:11:07 rd is disabled by default isn't it? Aug 14 16:11:09 there's almost no 2G here Aug 14 16:11:14 and spotty 3G Aug 14 16:11:14 DocScrutinizer, problem is if one were to use many applets, and what not it'll bog down the usage :) and I really don't understand why is n900 the only device equipped with a smaller batter compared to its predecessors? maybe nokia started caring about weight and/or style? Aug 14 16:11:14 sure Aug 14 16:11:37 I don't think I have R&D on... Aug 14 16:11:56 nobody has, usually Aug 14 16:12:03 I did for weeks Aug 14 16:12:10 why the heck should you? Aug 14 16:12:10 then I turned it off and was very happy Aug 14 16:12:12 easiest way to tell if you have R&D mode on is by the colouring of the keypads Aug 14 16:12:16 I haven't run it out all the way but I know I get < 10 hours of 3g Aug 14 16:12:33 with ssh, web and email Aug 14 16:13:06 what goes on in your ssh? Aug 14 16:13:15 mostly irc Aug 14 16:13:28 that eats alot :) Aug 14 16:13:36 well, not if channels are idle Aug 14 16:14:35 does ncurses based programs run well on the n900? for example running irssi through ssh? Aug 14 16:15:21 ShadowJK: even then Aug 14 16:15:22 yeah that's fine Aug 14 16:15:33 c3l: I ported nethack okay and that uses curses Aug 14 16:16:04 the "x-terminal" on n900 uses same widget as gnome-terminal, i think Aug 14 16:16:27 ShadowJK: all the joins/quits and pings and whatnot still make it a hog, esp on 3G Aug 14 16:17:07 well ssh to another machine running irssi cuts down on some of it Aug 14 16:17:38 but you still get a wakeup whenever someone says something, join/part and irssi updating statusline Aug 14 16:18:01 c3l: short story: if you feel comfortable witj linux, and you want a new better phone/palmtop-PC than iPhone, then there's no alternative to N900. You'll love it Aug 14 16:18:17 DocScrutinizer: :D thanks Aug 14 16:18:55 i'll love (and buy) the N900 when i can get a really open source OS that works well on it :P Aug 14 16:19:08 c3l: if you want 300.000 apps for 99ct from appstore, then N900 isn't hte phone for you. Same if you basically need an organizer Aug 14 16:20:01 LjL: ok, cya next live then Aug 14 16:20:13 life** Aug 14 16:20:13 lol Aug 14 16:20:18 LjL: you should be able to run anthing Linux based, really. IIRC, all the drivers are freely avaible. The wireless does have a free replacement. Aug 14 16:20:21 crashanddie: yup :-S Aug 14 16:20:31 crashanddie: coffee-- Aug 14 16:20:35 Muelli: LOL Aug 14 16:21:52 i think the wlan drivers are opensource? Aug 14 16:21:59 Muelli: well, there's the "that works well" part to be considered though. there aren't many linux-based OS's that are *made* to work well on a cellphone like that. the two open-source ones i know of are Android and Meego, and both are available for the N900 but neither really works well (yet, anyway) as far as i heard. Aug 14 16:22:18 Muelli: try talking to the modem for a change... Aug 14 16:22:32 LjL: well. There the pimped Debian which was used on the Freerunner, too. Aug 14 16:23:00 LjL: but - as the oss property of some few bits of the OS doesn't make any bit of a difference to endusers and even app developers - I gather you are core OS developer / kernel hacker and as such you most probably will brew your own FOSS-100 OS for N900 Aug 14 16:23:01 crashanddie: hm? Phonet is in Linux for ages now. And Ofono as a high level API exists. Aug 14 16:23:20 and works as far as I've seen. Aug 14 16:23:31 oh, you've seen it working on the n900, have you now? Aug 14 16:23:35 DocScrutinizer: why? because I can't turn it off without rebooting Aug 14 16:23:37 what is the URL to see the status of the packages being built by the autobuilder? Aug 14 16:23:44 I keep forgetting and not bookmarking it... Aug 14 16:24:14 barisione: hey :-) Aug 14 16:24:20 c3l: N900 is great if you want a low-end multifunction device Aug 14 16:24:22 Muelli: hi :) Aug 14 16:24:49 Muelli: no, the drivers are not all freely available. Aug 14 16:24:50 luke-jr: eh? Aug 14 16:24:51 Muelli: I always end up meeting you wherever I go, brazil, the hague or irc :P Aug 14 16:24:59 luke-jr: I guess thats what ill go for :) Aug 14 16:25:06 barisione: hrhr... Well. At something to look forward to ;-) Aug 14 16:25:11 luke-jr: which are not? Aug 14 16:25:14 how I use the flasher program in Ubuntu 64bit? Aug 14 16:25:37 Muelli: battery charger and 3D acceleration at least Aug 14 16:25:47 bash: /usr/bin/flasher-3.5: No such file or directory Aug 14 16:25:53 I'm getting that error message Aug 14 16:25:59 c3l: wish I could suggest something usable as a handheld computer, but nobody makes them anymore ☹ Aug 14 16:26:09 saltsa_: you don't. Aug 14 16:26:14 saltsa_: you need a 32-bit OS Aug 14 16:26:32 Flasher 3.0 had a 64-bit version, but nobody can legally share it with you Aug 14 16:26:47 barisione: are you looking for smth like that: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/per-contact-ringtones/0.2.0-0/ ? Aug 14 16:26:50 wait now, is the screen good? i heard its ..i dont know the english word, but not glass, right? is it still ok? Aug 14 16:27:19 DocScrutinizer: i wouldn't make a big deal of the "few bits of the OS" if those were just some hardware drivers, but apparently about half of Maemo is not open-source, and while i'm not really a kernel hacker, i am interested in doing things which may just require source code access, such as playing with the sensors, radio, etc. and then for me there's also the "supporting open source" factor. Aug 14 16:27:39 Muelli: nope, another page, but the autobuilder succeeded so I guess I don't need that anymore :) Aug 14 16:27:49 luke-jr: well. I don't know what "battery charger" is supposed to mean but not having 3D is not a real loss ;-) And I guess LjL wouldn't mind either ;-) Aug 14 16:27:57 LjL: that's nonsense. All of that is open Aug 14 16:28:24 DocScrutinizer: uh, Stskeeps seemed to say otherwise, and has a chart detailing it. Aug 14 16:28:38 LjL: nope, he didn't Aug 14 16:29:35 the kernel is *completely* open. What's closed are things like dialer-ui, calendar, addressbook-database etc Aug 14 16:29:44 Muelli: battery charger is obvious Aug 14 16:30:00 LjL: maemo is a lost game, meego is using only very few blobs for hw support Aug 14 16:30:00 luke-jr: probably not. Or do I need to have the system booted in order to charge the battery? Aug 14 16:30:00 c3l: the screen is glass as far as I can tell Aug 14 16:30:06 Muelli: yes Aug 14 16:30:08 O_o Aug 14 16:30:11 srsly/ Aug 14 16:30:14 FMradio app is open source community driven python app Aug 14 16:30:16 forex Aug 14 16:30:21 or rather, the system needs to be running the battery charger daemon Aug 14 16:30:27 not necessarily fully booted Aug 14 16:31:00 luke-jr: so you are saying that if I turn my N900 off and plug the charger in, it won't charge the battery? Aug 14 16:31:13 Muelli: it will boot and start the charger app Aug 14 16:31:33 uh. Aug 14 16:31:34 DocScrutinizer: well those are still part of Maemo aren't they. the kernel must be open, it's Linux. Aug 14 16:31:34 nonsense, the touchpanel of course is NOT 'glass' Aug 14 16:31:46 DocScrutinizer: what is it? feels like glass to me Aug 14 16:31:48 Muelli: its called ACTDEAD mode Aug 14 16:32:07 Muelli: minimal system is booted and bme too Aug 14 16:32:11 dunno, polyacetate, polycarbonate? who knows Aug 14 16:32:26 the moment a power source is in usnb, n900 starts Aug 14 16:32:40 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/meegobd_0.0.2-0ubuntu1/armel.root.log.FAILED.txt Aug 14 16:32:51 okay. didn't know that. thanks Stskeeps and luke-jr. Aug 14 16:32:52 i don't see an error in that log, but it says it failed? Aug 14 16:32:55 Muelli, luke-jr: AFAIR the system can charge even if not booted, when it gets enough battery for a partial boot it partially boots Aug 14 16:33:03 Muelli: anyhow, it would suck not being able to charge battery :P Aug 14 16:33:12 LjL: that's like claiming buntkuh is not FOSS as it has acrobat reader Aug 14 16:33:34 http://blog.barisione.org/2010-08/faster-custom-ringtones/ \o/ now I can start the week-end :) Aug 14 16:35:03 luke-jr: calling bme an 'app' is... err... Aug 14 16:35:32 barisione: enjoy, and many thanks :-D Aug 14 16:35:40 :) Aug 14 16:36:30 Muelli: starting charger is easy though. Even without closed blob called bme :-D Aug 14 16:36:48 I published a 5 liner shellscript to establish that Aug 14 16:37:13 DocScrutinizer: the 5 liner doesn't ever finish Aug 14 16:37:24 finish? Aug 14 16:37:43 how's keeping battery charged gonna be a job that ever finishes? Aug 14 16:38:14 does bme ever finish? Aug 14 16:39:23 maybe bme signals cell=100% according to his twisted notion Aug 14 16:39:25 external charger + fake battery arrived Aug 14 16:39:35 DocScrutinizer: the script has a finished state Aug 14 16:39:38 the led is broken so i don't know when the battery has finished charging Aug 14 16:40:00 also the battery monitor is probably f'ed up because of the frequent battery switch Aug 14 16:40:06 yay for me Aug 14 16:40:06 luke-jr: yes it has, and if you don't understand what it does you honestly seriously shouldn't use it Aug 14 16:40:09 DocScrutinizer: at some point BME also stops charging and the battery drops Aug 14 16:40:21 DocScrutinizer: I don't have a choice, now do I? Aug 14 16:40:46 luke-jr: bme also 'never finishes' if you keep screen always on Aug 14 16:40:59 just like does my script Aug 14 16:41:20 luke-jr: if its glass, how does the pen work? or are there no pen, maybe Ive been misinformed Aug 14 16:41:30 c3l: the same way your fingers work? Aug 14 16:41:37 c3l: it is NOT glass Aug 14 16:41:57 c3l: virtually no touchscreen ever is made of glass Aug 14 16:42:00 DocScrutinizer: if it's not glass, what is it? Aug 14 16:42:17 luke-jr: do you read backscroll please? Aug 14 16:42:20 I'm not surprised it isn't glass, but glass is the only way i can describe how it feels Aug 14 16:42:31 I asked, but I didn't see a reply Aug 14 16:42:44 [2010-08-14 18:31:58] dunno, polyacetate, polycarbonate? who knows Aug 14 16:42:46 oh, polycarbonate is a material? Aug 14 16:42:51 :D Aug 14 16:44:22 yes, polycarbonate is a material. Not sure about the polyacetate though Aug 14 16:44:43 most likely it's PVC Aug 14 16:46:28 DocScrutinizer: how do i tell my n900 that i'm on another battery? Aug 14 16:46:41 no need to Aug 14 16:46:57 bq27200 will reset on battery removal Aug 14 16:47:03 the battery indicator is f'ed up Aug 14 16:47:29 which indicator, in which way? Aug 14 16:47:41 the status area battery indicator Aug 14 16:47:45 went up for a bit Aug 14 16:48:05 luke-jr: is the pen made of human tissue? :) just plastic wont work. I think it has to be a bit conductive as the water in a finger, or sausage. but now DocScrutinizer says its not glass, who to trust? ;) Aug 14 16:48:06 bah, that one is a guestimate with a good amount of random anyway Aug 14 16:48:25 how do i measure the battery then? Aug 14 16:48:26 DocScrutinizer: the iphone for instance is glass Aug 14 16:48:29 ~tell c3l about DocScrutinizer51 Aug 14 16:48:31 ~tell c3l about DocScrutinizer Aug 14 16:48:42 clnope Aug 14 16:48:46 c3l: ^^ Aug 14 16:48:50 ~DocScrutinizer Aug 14 16:48:52 hmm... docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko Aug 14 16:49:01 yay openmoko Aug 14 16:49:41 (btw, slashdot claims that there was the first gsm call with an open baseband) Aug 14 16:49:44 (is that true?) Aug 14 16:49:53 c3l: for GTA03 development we did extensive tests on iPhone capacitive touchpanel. Believe me it's NOT glass Aug 14 16:50:15 the back of the iphone4 is glass Aug 14 16:50:41 really? :O Ive seen it break just like glass, what is the iphone screen made of then? some superspecial type of plastic? Aug 14 16:50:55 yes Aug 14 16:51:02 So. Aug 14 16:51:04 What's new? Aug 14 16:51:10 polyacrylate or something like that Aug 14 16:51:27 we broke several :-P Aug 14 16:51:39 steelball drop test :-D Aug 14 16:51:54 woot :D Aug 14 16:52:31 DocScrutinizer: was it satisfying? Aug 14 16:52:36 for what company do you work? Aug 14 16:52:37 our touchpanel had to be at least as rigid as the iPhone's :-) Aug 14 16:52:48 unemployed atm Aug 14 16:52:59 he drops steel balls on iphones for fun Aug 14 16:53:28 a real apple hater :) Aug 14 16:53:29 * DocScrutinizer drops steelballs on kerio and laughs sadistically Aug 14 16:53:41 ouch! my balls Aug 14 16:55:16 c3l: didn't infobot toss you my 'vcard' ? Aug 14 16:55:32 DocScrutinizer: really, how am i supposed to monitor my battery? Aug 14 16:55:39 batterygraph? Aug 14 16:55:52 bq27200.sh Aug 14 16:56:00 or simply not at all Aug 14 16:56:09 DocScrutinizer: huh Aug 14 16:56:15 just... work until it shuts down? Aug 14 16:56:20 batterygraph et al are all nonsense as I get it Aug 14 16:56:25 does the n900 have the same version of free ovi maps as s60 devices? Aug 14 16:56:35 IcanCU: way behind Aug 14 16:56:35 nope Aug 14 16:56:40 ah ok Aug 14 16:56:41 no voice navigation Aug 14 16:56:46 always needs a data connection for everything Aug 14 16:57:00 DocScrutinizer: it did, but I thought openmoko is more kind of a project than a company, that might not be the case Aug 14 16:57:05 kerio: it *will* warn you some 30min before it shuts down Aug 14 16:57:22 c3l: it's both Aug 14 16:57:38 i wanna work for openmoko Aug 14 16:57:41 how much do you pay? Aug 14 16:57:51 there's openmoko the community project, and there is/was openmoko the company Aug 14 16:58:42 though the company has pretty much closed down, the project lives on Aug 14 16:58:43 why '/way', are they shutting down? Aug 14 16:59:02 aw thats sad Aug 14 16:59:04 huh... from the maemo wiki, Batteries: "For good operation times with Li-Ion batteries, discharge the battery from time to time by leaving the product switched on until it turns itself off. " "Lithium-ion batteries should never be "deep-cycled" like Ni-Cd batteries " Aug 14 16:59:07 because it doesn't work. Aug 14 16:59:47 kerio: that's obviously BS. There's no such thing like a memory effect on LiIon Aug 14 17:00:31 and yes, LiIon will break on first deep dischage Aug 14 17:00:42 li-ion will never deep discharge Aug 14 17:00:47 That's not quite accurate. Aug 14 17:00:48 if the battery is smart enough Aug 14 17:00:56 not like NiMH/NiCad which don't care at all Aug 14 17:01:07 The recommendation to regularly discharge to switchoff will reset the battery charge meter - if it was used sanely Aug 14 17:01:09 but... Aug 14 17:05:49 Hi Aug 14 17:05:54 it's bs :) Aug 14 17:06:08 kerio, what batteryare you using? Aug 14 17:06:33 ShadowJK: chinese one Aug 14 17:06:38 so yeah Aug 14 17:06:55 i'm not expecting anything even remotely close to a correct measure Aug 14 17:07:05 do you have a dmm? Aug 14 17:07:47 why dmm, just read out "designed" Aug 14 17:08:03 i guess Aug 14 17:08:18 a what? Aug 14 17:08:36 hal-device bme | grep reporting.design Aug 14 17:09:18 lshal Aug 14 17:09:25 battery.reporting.design = 1223 Aug 14 17:09:39 hal-device bme ?? o.O Aug 14 17:09:57 you never stop to learn :-) Aug 14 17:10:12 what's that? Aug 14 17:10:14 kerio, how is the battery meter behaving Aug 14 17:10:44 ShadowJK: steady, for now Aug 14 17:12:09 kerio: that's "cell is supposed to have 1223mAh" Aug 14 17:12:58 does it take a lot of light to be able to use the N900's screen in reflective mode with the backlight disabled? Aug 14 17:13:13 yes, definitely Aug 14 17:13:19 sunlight Aug 14 17:13:28 plus a mostly white screen content Aug 14 17:13:31 and? Aug 14 17:14:29 black-on-white looks good under sunlight Aug 14 17:14:39 forget colors though Aug 14 17:15:04 * DocScrutinizer wonders where's the big diff tween lshal and hal-device Aug 14 17:15:50 lshal dumps everything Aug 14 17:15:52 except obviously hal-device has a different set of cmdline options Aug 14 17:15:58 yeah Aug 14 17:16:00 * ShadowJK shrugs Aug 14 17:16:53 funny enough is --help of hal-device, which refers to lshal-format :-P Aug 14 17:17:09 is the cell supposed to have 1223mAh? Aug 14 17:17:25 yeah i knew you'd mostly lose colors Aug 14 17:17:27 err man hal-device maybe Aug 14 17:17:38 i'm thinking mostly about reading ebooks in sunlight Aug 14 17:17:52 [2010-08-14 19:11:55] kerio: that's "cell is supposed to have 1223mAh" Aug 14 17:18:34 LjL: should work, maybe Aug 14 17:18:46 uhm. Aug 14 17:19:07 well if you keep the backlight *on* at least, is it definitely readable in sunlight? :P Aug 14 17:19:23 black on white is Aug 14 17:19:50 white on black prolly not Aug 14 17:20:36 wanna read ebooks under sunlight? Aug 14 17:20:45 buy a kindle Aug 14 17:20:45 or a nook Aug 14 17:20:57 *nod* Aug 14 17:21:01 or... a motofone Aug 14 17:21:15 or a book Aug 14 17:21:22 lol Aug 14 17:22:19 MohammadAG: can you turn pages with your... "book"? Aug 14 17:22:23 and take notes? Aug 14 17:22:26 huh? Aug 14 17:22:29 HUH? Aug 14 17:22:34 Yes Aug 14 17:22:42 :o Aug 14 17:22:46 taking into account the virtually non existent price difference between ebook and paper, the format chaos, and the DRM PITA, it's probably the most sensible solution to go for paper Aug 14 17:22:51 it's obviously copied from the kindle Aug 14 17:23:17 hehe Aug 14 17:23:53 lol Aug 14 17:23:55 on 'book' you can't recharge the battery :-/ Aug 14 17:24:01 DAMN! Aug 14 17:24:03 that's a blocker Aug 14 17:26:04 see it the other way around: you don't need to recharge books ;) Aug 14 17:26:22 Dakon: LIES Aug 14 17:27:00 yeah, propaganda of the paper conspiracy Aug 14 17:27:04 I confess ;) Aug 14 17:27:10 DocScrutinizer: drm? Aug 14 17:27:17 meh, just go ePUB Aug 14 17:27:25 digital restrictions management Aug 14 17:28:23 hard to find a lot of good books that are less than 70 years old anyway Aug 14 17:28:33 ;) Aug 14 17:29:06 I'm trying to chmod u+x a file ive downloaded but it doesnt work, why? Aug 14 17:29:07 ~drm Aug 14 17:29:08 drm is probably http://precisioninsight.com/dr/drm.html or the Direct Rendering Module, or called Direct Rendering Manager. "an acronym for "Digital Rights Management" ", or http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/drm.asp ... the best big black-caca from the ass of gates Just Say No (tm), or http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html Aug 14 17:30:53 s/ePUB/eMule :-P + *.pdf Aug 14 17:31:09 emule? D: Aug 14 17:31:21 eDonkey whatever Aug 14 17:31:26 warez Aug 14 17:31:31 Am I the only one feeling pity for iPhone users after seeing this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/14/ipad_apps/ ? Aug 14 17:31:40 yes Aug 14 17:31:56 I never feel pity for iPhone users Aug 14 17:32:05 ed2k is dead as... dead Aug 14 17:32:44 mhm, see? Proves I'm not involved in such activities Aug 14 17:33:05 hmm so a binary must be put in /bin to chmod it runnable? Aug 14 17:33:09 the future is private bittorrent trackers Aug 14 17:33:20 and, for smaller stuff, file hosting services Aug 14 17:33:32 not that i use any of that, of course Aug 14 17:33:36 jave: you can't chmod +x on a vfat fs Aug 14 17:33:47 i thought vfat was always 777 Aug 14 17:33:51 ah ok so that whas it Aug 14 17:33:54 MyDocs is VFAT Aug 14 17:34:00 ok I see. Aug 14 17:34:01 Aug 14 17:34:38 kerio: yep, maybe. But anyway afaik it's mounted noexec Aug 14 17:35:10 oh, so *that* needs to be secure Aug 14 17:35:12 meh Aug 14 17:37:14 /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmas Aug 14 17:37:47 meh Aug 14 17:38:10 /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixe Aug 14 17:38:47 the audio program I compiled makes sound! Aug 14 17:38:55 however, very quiet Aug 14 17:39:20 what's the audio device/interface used? Aug 14 17:39:26 hw:0,0 Aug 14 17:39:31 ooh Aug 14 17:39:42 I can set it what should I use? Aug 14 17:39:43 amazing it works at all Aug 14 17:39:55 try default Aug 14 17:40:01 hmm Aug 14 17:40:02 you should use pulse Aug 14 17:40:03 lol Aug 14 17:40:11 pcm.pulse didnt work Aug 14 17:40:24 try "default" Aug 14 17:40:49 ok, also very quiet Aug 14 17:41:01 you're aware this needs to be a user config option? Aug 14 17:41:29 DocScrutinizer: maybe overall paper is currently better, but when it comes to public domain books, the cost is nil, they're available in most format, and there is no DRM ;) Aug 14 17:41:39 well, ive merely compiled sbagen, and patched it to support alsa Aug 14 17:41:47 LjL: ack Aug 14 17:41:53 it has a -d flag for device choice Aug 14 17:42:08 that's good enough I guess Aug 14 17:43:03 ah now I managed to fck upp audio completely lol Aug 14 17:43:08 mediaplayer block Aug 14 17:43:13 great... Aug 14 17:44:21 and why was it absoulutely necessary to invent a new usb plug? ive got milions of the old ones, 0 of the newfangled micro variant Aug 14 17:45:15 jave: (micro USB) address blackmail to USB consortium Aug 14 17:45:24 (audio) Aug 14 17:45:28 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# aplay -v /usr/share/sounds/ui-wrong_charger.wav Aug 14 17:45:29 Playing WAVE '/usr/share/sounds/ui-wrong_charger.wav' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 24000 Hz, Stereo Aug 14 17:45:31 ALSA <-> PulseAudio PCM I/O Plugin Aug 14 17:46:46 c3l: it doesn't have to be conductive at all Aug 14 17:47:07 c3l: the stylus is just a piece of plastic Aug 14 17:47:11 aplay -v /usr/share/sounds/*.wav # :-D Aug 14 17:47:26 binaural beats on n900 so close yet so far Aug 14 17:47:55 jave: loud enough for me Aug 14 17:48:33 Hi; does anyone know if the N900 wifi driver (wl12xx, I think) supports short preamble mode? Aug 14 17:48:55 hmm Aug 14 17:49:00 From what I can tell, it didn't back in february 2009 Aug 14 17:49:06 (http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wireless/msg28403.html) Aug 14 17:49:18 But I dunno if it's changed Aug 14 17:50:21 DocScrutinizer: after a reboot it works! seems hw:0,0 wasnt stellar to try Aug 14 17:50:37 yup, ack Aug 14 17:51:14 finaly sbagen in a phone! Aug 14 17:51:37 basically PA hijacks the whole audio, and fsckups it thoroughly :-P Aug 14 17:52:22 I kind of knew, but on my desktop pulse seems to sort of notice when I go directly at the hw and wait Aug 14 17:52:53 * DocScrutinizer nods Aug 14 17:53:20 n900 PA setup seems to be particularly messed up Aug 14 17:54:42 luke-jr: then its got to be a preassure sensitive display? not like the desire or iphone, on those a pice of plastic would never work. Aug 14 17:55:19 c3l: N900 is resistive, yes Aug 14 17:55:30 also seems completely unclear how "ALSA <-> PulseAudio PCM I/O Plugin" is supposed to cooperate with PA policy enforer engine (or whatever it's called) Aug 14 17:56:08 hmm I get "broken pipe" when screen goes blank, and comes back again. odd Aug 14 17:56:15 luke-jr: I know alot of resistive displays easily get damaged and 'worn out', is that the case for n900 too? Aug 14 17:56:37 c3l: news to me Aug 14 17:56:46 c3l: iPhone etc have capacitive touchscreen. N900 has resistive touchscreen. Please refer to wikipedia Aug 14 17:57:33 c3l: what kind of "wear out" do you mean specifically? Aug 14 17:58:06 wikipedia doesnt have user experiences =) but id better try it than ask quiesionts :> Aug 14 17:58:16 the insane number of tiny scratches all over the place? Aug 14 17:58:21 sure Aug 14 17:59:05 DocScrutinizer: easier getting scratches and so, to scratch the ipohone display for instance a pice of metal doesnt help, you need a pice of stone or something similar. is the n900 display more sensitive in that sense? Aug 14 17:59:24 Probably Aug 14 17:59:24 c3l: anyway the N900 has best resistive ts I even used/tested Aug 14 17:59:55 c3l: yes, it's way more sensible to scrathes etc Aug 14 18:00:20 c3l,I would never tested that,I care about money :p Aug 14 18:00:30 Hm Aug 14 18:00:49 c3l: that's why a lot of users apply screen protetors to their N900 Aug 14 18:01:52 c3l: not me though, I got no significant scratch or ditch Aug 14 18:02:08 or whatever on my 10 months old N900 Aug 14 18:02:37 ah, its no decreased preformance for the screen with a protective plastic film? cool, then I guess theres no real problem. so a slight touch on the screen with your finger wont make it respond, right? Aug 14 18:02:44 if I ever feel like it's time to do, I'll get a replacement touchpanel for 60EUR Aug 14 18:02:52 oh well that sounds promising Aug 14 18:03:39 DocScrutinizer: aren't you the EE who broke the flat cable that connects the lcd, breaking the n900 in the process? Aug 14 18:04:09 no, it broke by itself. Wasn't me who broke it :-P Aug 14 18:04:21 sure Aug 14 18:04:51 how's that related to touchpanels though? Aug 14 18:04:51 if *you* couldn't do that, i wouldn't get close to it with a d&d standard-issue 10 feet pole Aug 14 18:05:03 yep Aug 14 18:05:52 but, as mentioned above. It's probably been a hidden defect that just became obvious and servere by disassembly Aug 14 18:06:17 that flat cable is poorly designed Aug 14 18:08:17 they should have used a ZIF-FPC connector, rather than a b2b-plug Aug 14 18:09:09 after all a FPC is no 'board' Aug 14 18:09:47 so board to board connector plug is somewhat odd there Aug 14 18:12:14 the way it's no: b2b-plug on FPC-main on FPC-jumper-patch. If it were b2b-plug on jumper-rigid-board on FPC that would have been much more rugged anyway Aug 14 18:13:28 as it's now each little bit of force applied to the whole construction tends to break the joints between the three parts Aug 14 18:34:51 kerio: let me put it this way: when disassembling the N900, on separating the upper display half from lower main body you MUST NOT apply any pulling or bending force to the point where flexible plastic connector is attached to the main board. Carefully(!) pry out the board2board plug from it's receptacle by using a lever like e.g credit card or similar - refer to RX-51_SM_L1/2 Aug 14 18:35:15 ~2119 Aug 14 18:35:16 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Aug 14 18:36:59 ~1459 Aug 14 18:37:05 aw Aug 14 18:37:57 * DocScrutinizer enters "rfc:1459" into URL field of Konqueror Aug 14 18:42:31 ShadowJK: duh, thought you'd query for 1149 :-P Aug 14 18:42:54 Hah Aug 14 18:45:53 >>The bandwidth is limited to the leg length.<< LOL Aug 14 18:46:04 ISO 3103 is another nice standard Aug 14 18:55:32 any autobuilder/packaging experts alive right now? Aug 14 18:55:41 i can't find the error message in this: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/meegobd_0.0.2-0ubuntu1/armel.root.log.FAILED.txt Aug 14 19:04:47 <_llll_> trip0: loosk like no error to me Aug 14 19:05:08 _llll_, that was my conclusion as well :( Aug 14 19:05:16 maybe I should just resubmit it... Aug 14 19:05:20 maybe it'll magically work Aug 14 19:05:21 :P Aug 14 19:07:24 <_llll_> scripts run with set +e perhaps Aug 14 19:10:48 if id like to publish my sbagen port to n900, would "garage" be a suitable place? Aug 14 19:13:30 DocScrutinizer: let me put it this way: i WILL NOT dissassemble the n900 Aug 14 19:13:32 ever Aug 14 19:14:18 Gwaaaaaaaaaaan. Aug 14 19:14:30 GeneralAntilles: SpeedEvil is calling you again Aug 14 19:14:47 I'm sort of tempted to dissasemble mine a little to add stuff. Aug 14 19:15:03 you have your own GA? Aug 14 19:15:06 Gyro/magnetometer. Aug 14 19:21:29 evening everyone Aug 14 19:22:16 running OS2008, having trouble getting the media library to refresh Aug 14 19:23:06 I figured that inserting the sd card was a trigger, it used to be it seems, but no matter how hard I try or how I combine rebooting and inserting the card, the library remains empty Aug 14 19:24:22 does anyone know if there's a magic 'refresh library now' button or script? Aug 14 19:27:22 anyone tried getting a meegotouch-based app to run on the n900? Aug 14 19:29:05 somewhat surprised that noone has ported icecc to the n900 yet Aug 14 19:29:15 or, perhaps it is there... Aug 14 19:29:21 * trip0 looks in dpkg Aug 14 19:34:01 jave: sure Aug 14 19:35:32 hatseflats: dunno about 2008 - anyway check tracker Aug 14 19:37:11 I'm dorry to ask silly questions about garage, but I'm finding the docs confusing. "getting started" starts with an article about forking for instance Aug 14 19:37:43 http://linux.die.net/man/1/trackerd Aug 14 19:38:03 lol Aug 14 19:40:12 jave: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel Aug 14 19:40:18 might help Aug 14 19:40:55 Thanks Aug 14 19:41:15 GAN900: http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/4891791708/ Aug 14 19:45:52 * trip0 adds icecc to extras-devel Aug 14 19:46:03 what's icecc? Aug 14 19:46:12 distributed compiler system Aug 14 19:46:18 cute Aug 14 19:47:00 should allow you to compile stuff faster Aug 14 19:47:19 a lot of people do native compiles, this will allow you to employ other arm devices to make it faster Aug 14 19:47:51 heh, a cluster of n900s Aug 14 19:47:58 yep :) Aug 14 19:48:08 where's that lbt character? Aug 14 19:50:06 DocScrutinizer: trackerd binary is missing from the system Aug 14 19:50:08 somehow :/ Aug 14 19:50:09 Stskeeps: sup Aug 14 19:51:37 DocScrutinizer: any idea to which package that thing belongs to? Aug 14 19:53:01 btw, external charger ftfw Aug 14 19:55:22 crashanddie, Flickr got so heavy after the last update. Aug 14 19:55:33 trip0: pong Aug 14 19:56:01 GAN900: i asked this yesterday but never got a response... how much have things moved towards Meego around here? Aug 14 19:56:36 rm_you, meego porting on the n900 is going well afaik Aug 14 19:56:47 almost have a working modem Aug 14 19:57:28 i've heard people saying Maemo is going to be a dead-end project, and it makes some sense but don't know exactly how much stock to put in it Aug 14 19:58:11 just about everything has a beginning and an ending Aug 14 19:58:39 Maemo lives on in meego, so it really can't be considered a "dead end" Aug 14 19:58:40 imho Aug 14 19:58:49 yeah Aug 14 19:58:55 trip0: huh? Aug 14 19:58:59 wrong Aug 14 19:59:10 so are people planning on switching over to Meego development? Aug 14 19:59:14 meego uses rpm, maemo uses deb Aug 14 19:59:18 it's a *HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE* difference Aug 14 19:59:24 I haven't yet looked into setting up a meego dev env Aug 14 19:59:28 kerio, wrong? i doubt it. package format is actually a trivial diff Aug 14 19:59:33 rm_you: i guess people are waiting for... a device Aug 14 19:59:36 GAN900: I don't really mind, I like the new lightbox Aug 14 19:59:38 yeah Aug 14 19:59:43 i mean, that makes sense Aug 14 19:59:55 I guess Harmattan is not happening now Aug 14 19:59:59 GAN900: plus, by right-clicking on the main picture, you can go directly to higher res without going through the lightbox Aug 14 20:00:00 I would assumer Aug 14 20:00:03 *assume Aug 14 20:00:22 harmattan lives Aug 14 20:00:22 again, i've been gone for like three months so i'm just trying to catch up on all the happenings i missed Aug 14 20:00:40 harmattan will probably be on the first "meego" device Aug 14 20:00:48 interesting Aug 14 20:01:11 i would have expected them to jump ship and put all their resources into making Meego work, instead of splitting up their focus Aug 14 20:01:29 well, meego is more than just nokia Aug 14 20:02:30 ALL HAIL HARMATTAN Aug 14 20:02:35 kerio, and also, i haven't heard that harmattan will be rpm based Aug 14 20:02:43 harmattan is still maemo Aug 14 20:02:51 it'll probably have the meego handset ui Aug 14 20:02:58 they are calling it harmattan/meego Aug 14 20:03:03 according to the meego wiki Aug 14 20:03:09 (yes, yes, User Experience - it's still a user interface) Aug 14 20:04:06 yay, icecc is not in the extras-devel! Aug 14 20:04:15 s/not/now* Aug 14 20:05:01 hello Aug 14 20:05:08 can anyone help me with Joomla? Aug 14 20:05:22 sure, the world is big Aug 14 20:05:27 someone can Aug 14 20:06:02 lol Aug 14 20:09:55 * lcuk throws a snowball @ rm_you Aug 14 20:10:11 * rm_you waves at lcuk Aug 14 20:10:17 \o Aug 14 20:10:40 how have you been rm_you Aug 14 20:11:40 got a new job, moved to a different house, bought a car Aug 14 20:11:46 bloody nora Aug 14 20:12:21 still in same area? Aug 14 20:14:49 * lcuk goes back to sorting out todays photos Aug 14 20:14:51 yep Aug 14 20:15:03 lcuk: photos? Aug 14 20:16:12 yes, we went out so I was moving them to their folder Aug 14 20:16:22 :P Aug 14 20:16:31 rm_you, moved into the bar? Aug 14 20:16:37 lol Aug 14 20:16:43 we HAD a bar at our old house Aug 14 20:16:47 new one does not :( Aug 14 20:16:51 why move ? Aug 14 20:16:53 all our booze in sitting in a box Aug 14 20:16:55 sounds almost ideal Aug 14 20:16:58 lol Aug 14 20:17:00 i loved it Aug 14 20:17:18 but our lease ran up and i couldn't generate enough interest quickly enough to get people to resign before the landlord found new tennants Aug 14 20:17:23 so we moved into a smaller place Aug 14 20:17:41 rm_you, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75ftfH2PoMU Aug 14 20:18:30 THAT is how beer should be delivered Aug 14 20:18:56 rofl Aug 14 20:18:57 yes Aug 14 20:19:29 crashanddie, went to the museum to see the dinosaurs and other assoc natural history stuffs Aug 14 20:20:00 * b-man` just got back from a lloonngg trip Aug 14 20:20:08 lcuk: dunno if i mentioned, but I'm working for an oil company now T_T Aug 14 20:21:14 rm_you, what are you doing for them? Aug 14 20:21:24 hopefully your job is not on a lilo with a net Aug 14 20:21:32 IT Infrastructure / Security Aug 14 20:21:41 lol Aug 14 20:21:44 cool Aug 14 20:22:12 working for a company that doesn't do exploration/production Aug 14 20:22:20 just refining/sales Aug 14 20:22:51 Have you heard of Reliant? Aug 14 20:22:55 I don't work for them :P Aug 14 20:23:05 only in the robin sense Aug 14 20:23:11 but supposedly they're our competitor in Europe Aug 14 20:23:39 Reliant was a British car manufacturer. The company was traditionally based at Tamworth in Staffordshire, England, but in 2001 it moved to nearby Cannock. ... Aug 14 20:23:50 different one Aug 14 20:23:51 :P not the same one i guess Aug 14 20:23:54 this one is an energy company Aug 14 20:24:02 so were those guys Aug 14 20:24:11 you could drive 40000000 miles on a tank of gas :P Aug 14 20:24:13 lol Aug 14 20:26:36 rm_you, well, here, not a lotl Aug 14 20:26:49 rm_you, in general, it feels like scorched earth. Aug 14 20:26:58 moin Aug 14 20:27:04 rm_you, Quim doesn't even vaguely notice Maemo stuff anymore. Aug 14 20:27:15 <_< Aug 14 20:27:18 yeah Aug 14 20:27:22 that's more like what I figured Aug 14 20:27:23 rm_you, Stskeeps has completely moved over to MeeGo. Aug 14 20:27:38 yeah, well he's actually working for them on the project now right? Aug 14 20:27:42 distmaster is open (and likely to be funding something else) Aug 14 20:27:42 like, they write his paycheck Aug 14 20:27:44 Yeah Aug 14 20:28:23 someone mentioned Meego backporting was moving along well? Aug 14 20:29:05 what are your feelings about the direction things are going? are you going to adopt meego with open arms, begrudgingly, or nevar!> Aug 14 20:29:06 ? Aug 14 20:29:17 hmm... did titan recompile the fcam-drivers for his kernel? Aug 14 20:29:25 the latest version, i mean Aug 14 20:29:52 I was looking into buying tickets to Dublin for the Meego thing Aug 14 20:30:04 who is titan anyhow Aug 14 20:30:10 but only if i can find somewhere there to stay on the cheap, IE someone's couch :P Aug 14 20:31:54 rm_you, you can happily stay on our couch, however its in the wrong country :P Aug 14 20:32:01 lol Aug 14 20:32:12 might have to get up a bit early each morning Aug 14 20:32:21 If they do something in the UK, i would take you up on that :P Aug 14 20:32:21 and theres a bit of a swim to get there Aug 14 20:32:41 * lcuk actually pondered stuff like that today Aug 14 20:32:59 walking round manchester uni it reminded me of Copenhagen meetup location Aug 14 20:33:58 and for once in its life, there was bluesky Aug 14 20:36:42 rm_you, burnt out. Aug 14 20:37:21 rm_you, things are just as messy as always and the scorched earth policy that's been adopted with maemo.org is exhausting. Aug 14 20:37:31 ? Aug 14 20:37:43 scorched earth? Aug 14 20:37:47 Aside from the fact that Nokia hasn't really learned any of the lessons of the past 5 years. Aug 14 20:39:02 devilsadvocate: have you heard about flash 10.1 from adobe? Aug 14 20:39:06 luke-jr, MeeGo's seeming policy of severing all ties with Maemo and maemo.org, stonewalling its contributors and refusing to leverage any of its experience or infra. Aug 14 20:39:50 O.o Aug 14 20:39:57 well, thing is that phone has 2 years of life at most Aug 14 20:40:08 what phone? Aug 14 20:40:08 How is skype on N900? Aug 14 20:40:11 Nokia makes phones? Aug 14 20:40:13 :P Aug 14 20:40:22 and supporting it above that is like flogging a dead horse Aug 14 20:40:24 xae8koo: proprietary Aug 14 20:40:35 does it work well? Aug 14 20:40:41 yes Aug 14 20:40:42 xae8koo: unless you want video Aug 14 20:40:44 better than pc skype Aug 14 20:40:55 i don't want anybody to watch me Aug 14 20:41:05 lol Aug 14 20:41:07 GAN900: yeah Aug 14 20:41:14 and i ussualy don't want to watch somebody else, unless it's she and she's hot and nude Aug 14 20:41:22 but that kind of people ussualy don't call me Aug 14 20:41:34 jacekowski, so your mum stopped phoning? Aug 14 20:41:35 GAN900: it's looking like the platform might end up as dead as n800 by the end of 2010 :/ Aug 14 20:41:49 I want the Nokia N900 so bad I'd kill for it! Aug 14 20:41:49 lcuk: long time ago Aug 14 20:41:59 especially if they manage to announce a Meego phone at the summit Aug 14 20:42:01 xae8koo: fail Aug 14 20:42:09 Why? Aug 14 20:42:19 I have it, i love it Aug 14 20:42:22 but i'm glad i didn't buy it Aug 14 20:42:30 isn't it that they are required to support product for couple years Aug 14 20:42:35 rm_you: Why? Aug 14 20:42:45 jacekowski: no Aug 14 20:42:46 like car manufacturers are required to keep spare parts avaliable for 15 years Aug 14 20:42:56 jacekowski: that's warranty, not support Aug 14 20:43:01 maemo is open source so we just comunity fix it Aug 14 20:43:09 xae8koo: not all of t Aug 14 20:43:09 because Aug 14 20:43:10 GAN900: it's looking like the platform might end up as dead as n800 by the end of 2010 :/ Aug 14 20:43:11 it* Aug 14 20:43:11 car manufs aren't required to produce new compatible parts Aug 14 20:43:24 xae8koo: Maemo is maybe 40% open source Aug 14 20:43:24 thing is Aug 14 20:43:31 xae8koo: the community can't fix it Aug 14 20:43:39 we can probably upgrade to meego easily in future Aug 14 20:43:41 xae8koo: it's like Mac OS X Aug 14 20:43:57 rm_you: Dead? But it has an Nintendo 64 emulator, and it can be controlled by PS3 remotes Aug 14 20:43:59 piece by piece was can try to luke-jr Aug 14 20:44:09 But Aug 14 20:44:15 it depends on what you suggest needs fixing - if its one of the "apps" we can get replacements Aug 14 20:44:18 Easy Debian will always be there, rigth? Aug 14 20:44:19 lcuk: not worth the effort Aug 14 20:44:28 if its hildon-desktop or home etc, well the code is available Aug 14 20:44:29 xae8koo: … Aug 14 20:44:40 xae8koo: I run Gentoo Aug 14 20:44:47 Easy Gentoo? xD Aug 14 20:44:47 well, we want n900 to run meego in the future Aug 14 20:44:53 and we're not far from that Aug 14 20:44:54 xae8koo: no, Gentoo is never easy Aug 14 20:45:11 luke-jr: I know, but can you make calles with gentoo? Aug 14 20:45:18 xae8koo: in theory! Aug 14 20:45:54 How long will it take me to install Mac Os on the N900? Aug 14 20:45:58 xae8koo: once the repositories fall into disarray, i consider the platform dead Aug 14 20:46:09 because you can't install things properly anymore Aug 14 20:46:19 and hope of upgrades is gone Aug 14 20:46:42 i plugged in my n800 the other day and tried to install something and it just flat fails now Aug 14 20:46:44 well its not like maemo.org is going anywhere Aug 14 20:46:48 xae8koo: days Aug 14 20:46:56 rm_you, external repo? Aug 14 20:47:18 no Aug 14 20:47:25 apps that were in extras Aug 14 20:47:30 just don't install properly anymore Aug 14 20:47:38 So the repo will disseapear? Aug 14 20:47:40 did you apt-get update first? Aug 14 20:47:41 thats wrong then but for another reason Aug 14 20:47:59 xae8koo, it shouldnt Aug 14 20:48:42 If it does I will simply return the phone. In norway, we have something equilent of a warranty for 5 years on everything electronic. I would return it as a faulty product. Aug 14 20:49:40 xae8koo: it's not faulty Aug 14 20:49:45 just not supported Aug 14 20:50:10 I haven't heard of anyone else in Norway managing to get a refund on their N8x0 Aug 14 20:50:55 the repos don't disappear, they just bit-rot Aug 14 20:51:12 rm_you, really depressing. Aug 14 20:51:38 rm_you, and, amazingly, Intel people seem to be completely incapable of dealing with a community. Aug 14 20:51:56 If I buy a phone, and is promiced features and applications for it, that I don't get. Then it is fraud Aug 14 20:52:15 xae8koo: 1. it's not a phone Aug 14 20:52:22 2. you weren't promised anything it didn't include Aug 14 20:52:35 afaik Aug 14 20:52:44 heck, I don't even see Nokia promising Linux Aug 14 20:53:12 xae8koo: It's not. Aug 14 20:53:31 xae8koo: It's fraud if they knew at the time of sale that the applications would not appear. Aug 14 20:53:43 i'm hoping that won't happen Aug 14 20:53:46 xae8koo: Otherwise it's merely inefficiency. Aug 14 20:53:51 or at least not nearly as soon as I'm afraid Aug 14 20:53:54 but it will eventually Aug 14 20:54:00 but in the meantime it's a NICE phone Aug 14 20:54:02 i love it Aug 14 20:54:08 Hmm Aug 14 20:54:20 I think it will, in any case, be bether than Nokia N97 Aug 14 20:54:25 Wich were my last phone Aug 14 20:54:33 xae8koo: again, N900 is not a phone Aug 14 20:54:43 if you're comparing things as phones, N97 is probably better Aug 14 20:55:09 N900 is a multifunction device Aug 14 20:55:25 The N97 annoyed me, and my friends had cooler gadgets Aug 14 20:55:33 combines low-end phone, camera, GPS, flashlight, etc Aug 14 20:56:15 luke-jr: Low end? Is it bad for SMS and calling? Aug 14 20:56:23 xae8koo: it doesn't support MMS, for example Aug 14 20:56:35 luke-jr: fMMS or gMMS Aug 14 20:56:42 nor comply with cell phone standards Aug 14 20:56:49 xae8koo: fMMS doesn't work. no idea on gMMS Aug 14 20:57:35 the phone app is glitchy too Aug 14 20:57:47 it's a coin flip if it's portrait or landscape Aug 14 20:58:03 at least if you set it to always-landscape mode Aug 14 20:58:11 MKMMS is what I want Aug 14 20:58:17 lbt, do you know if the meego pub obs can build meegotouch packages for maemo? Aug 14 20:58:26 that'd be the awesome if it could... Aug 14 20:58:46 I want it to flip when I open the keyboard Aug 14 20:58:55 xae8koo: good luck Aug 14 20:59:12 trip0, WIP afaik Aug 14 20:59:22 hmm Aug 14 20:59:23 actually, I think it is always landscape when you open kb Aug 14 20:59:25 guess i'll try Aug 14 20:59:34 I hate it Aug 14 20:59:38 it's the other way that is glitchy Aug 14 20:59:42 I have to wait for monday to get one Aug 14 20:59:43 trip0, if you get any feedback, there is a bug report about it Aug 14 20:59:44 hold on Aug 14 20:59:49 also, it takes like 5-10 seconds to answer calls Aug 14 20:59:57 5-10 seconds? Aug 14 21:00:02 That seams strange Aug 14 21:00:06 while you wait for the screen to rotate Aug 14 21:00:17 I was told it was fast Aug 14 21:00:21 lcuk, as far as i can tell, autobuilder + meegotouch is still b0rked Aug 14 21:00:26 xae8koo: it isn't. Aug 14 21:00:32 trip0, yeah, i just noticed, its your bug too Aug 14 21:00:33 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10882 Aug 14 21:00:33 the animation is fast Aug 14 21:00:34 Bug 10882: libmeegotouch-dev has missing dependencies Aug 14 21:00:36 but it takes time to start Aug 14 21:00:40 :P Aug 14 21:00:51 :) glad you care enough to try Aug 14 21:01:06 lcuk, well, i want to run my app on my phone ;) Aug 14 21:01:07 there are rumblings occuring anywa Aug 14 21:01:24 will keep that bug on my list and update it asap Aug 14 21:01:45 trip0, what have you written? Aug 14 21:02:00 lcuk, an obd-II app Aug 14 21:02:02 and have you looked over the other meegotouch apps on the gitorious Aug 14 21:02:04 from meego itself? Aug 14 21:02:14 no, not yet Aug 14 21:02:21 oh nice, cool Aug 14 21:02:24 well, other than the ones i work on Aug 14 21:02:28 what have you written it in? native qt Aug 14 21:02:37 or using one of the other things Aug 14 21:02:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csIKNDOCPZI Aug 14 21:02:48 qml etc Aug 14 21:03:00 i wrote that in qt+mtf Aug 14 21:03:34 trip0: where do you get all data? Aug 14 21:04:19 jacekowski, through an obd-ii scantool Aug 14 21:04:33 using host mode stuff? Aug 14 21:04:43 or some kind of magic? Aug 14 21:04:49 jacekowski, magic Aug 14 21:04:52 it uses nobdy Aug 14 21:04:56 which supports bluetooth Aug 14 21:05:00 or tcp over wifi Aug 14 21:05:05 (or the internet) Aug 14 21:06:12 trip0, have you tested whether your app can build on meego itself (ie have you got an rpm as well as a deb for it) Aug 14 21:06:21 and have you poked lbt with the source location Aug 14 21:06:31 i know how much he will like to try new code through obs ;) Aug 14 21:06:47 lcuk, it builds on my local system. it should also build on meego Aug 14 21:06:53 but i have yet to try it Aug 14 21:06:58 i'm hooking up with the obs now Aug 14 21:07:02 to try more Aug 14 21:07:07 cool, well I have left myself another reminder for monday Aug 14 21:07:52 in my case, meegobd will connect to nobdy which will connect over tcp/ip to another nobdy instance on an in-vehicle machine which logs and does automation and stuff Aug 14 21:08:26 cool, you have seen the ivi instance preview? Aug 14 21:08:31 yep Aug 14 21:08:36 not sure if that supports meegotouch yet tho? Aug 14 21:08:41 it should Aug 14 21:08:51 the handsfree dialer is written in mtf Aug 14 21:09:01 at least that was my understanding... Aug 14 21:09:18 understanding is good :) Aug 14 21:09:30 maybe the dev swapped out mtf for gtk.. Aug 14 21:09:38 but i understood it to be a fork of the handset dialer Aug 14 21:09:49 right now i'm running meego handset Aug 14 21:09:54 yeah Aug 14 21:09:57 lcuk: trip0 has a fresh passwd Aug 14 21:10:03 \o/ Aug 14 21:16:58 lbt, has a web frontend? Aug 14 21:17:15 * lbt doesn't have a web frontend, no Aug 14 21:17:15 re obs* Aug 14 21:17:29 * lbt has an irc frontend Aug 14 21:19:18 lbt BUILD GITURL http://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase@portrait_test http://github.com/lcuk/liqcalc Aug 14 21:20:00 lbt /? Aug 14 21:20:31 lbt, you have an irc frontend to obs? Aug 14 21:20:31 mmm? Aug 14 21:20:32 * lcuk thinks irc bots for build machines would be cool Aug 14 21:20:32 nice! Aug 14 21:20:33 :P Aug 14 21:20:44 no.... Aug 14 21:20:45 * lbt has an irc frontend Aug 14 21:21:12 hehe Aug 14 21:21:33 lcuk: BOSS ... seriously Aug 14 21:22:07 * trip0 searches for wiki on ocs usage Aug 14 21:22:12 you shall have to give me a guided tour over beer sometime soon david Aug 14 21:22:15 i can never remember the args for that thing Aug 14 21:23:44 lbt, stuff that's built on the obs for maemo gets added to extras-devel? Aug 14 21:23:53 trip0: not yet Aug 14 21:23:55 soon Aug 14 21:24:00 and the obs doesn't have a web frontend? Aug 14 21:24:26 oops, found it :) Aug 14 21:24:28 DocScrutinizer, as an engineer, i need your help Aug 14 21:27:45 MohammadAG51: ? Aug 14 21:27:53 * SpeedEvil plays an engineer on the internet. Aug 14 21:27:59 nothing n900 related :P Aug 14 21:28:03 samsung phone Aug 14 21:28:16 MohammadAG51, can I have the makefile mods you made to libliqbase for x86 please :) I want to have a look at something Aug 14 21:28:18 lbt, obs doesn't have access to the extras-devel repo? Aug 14 21:28:23 I lurk on ##electronics a lot, and can design struff. Aug 14 21:28:32 trip0: no, not really Aug 14 21:28:48 MohammadAG51: Or wander over to ##electronics maybe. Aug 14 21:28:52 oh poo Aug 14 21:29:10 nothing provides debhelper >= 7, nothing provides libmeegotouch-dev Aug 14 21:29:12 lcuk, yeah sure, i'll send them over in a bit mate Aug 14 21:29:16 :( Aug 14 21:29:18 just need to fix this phone Aug 14 21:29:26 it's broken either wya Aug 14 21:29:28 way* Aug 14 21:29:32 trip0: heh... fixable somehow Aug 14 21:29:37 lcuk: be glad too ... seen our latest slides? http://wiki.meego.com/Infrastructure/BOSS/Design Aug 14 21:29:41 MohammadAG51: In what way did you break it? Aug 14 21:29:53 anyhow... 'night all Aug 14 21:30:04 "Nokia OBS" Aug 14 21:30:05 SpeedEvil, i didn't, it's a friend's Aug 14 21:30:06 NOBS? Aug 14 21:30:22 the acronyms around this part of computing make me facepalm everysingle day Aug 14 21:30:22 MohammadAG51: In what way did he/she/it break it? Aug 14 21:30:31 charging base Aug 14 21:30:41 and a ribbon was disconnected when i checked it Aug 14 21:30:54 it's the same as the one in the N900's slider Aug 14 21:31:00 by the looks of it Aug 14 21:31:06 * lcuk wishes every group name was checked for facepalmyness Aug 14 21:31:09 lcuk: fwiw, i got your ping Aug 14 21:31:21 i'm certain i don't care before monday Aug 14 21:31:34 i'm uncertain i care until a manager says "oh, we should do something" Aug 14 21:31:38 timeless, \o Aug 14 21:32:10 lol timeless Aug 14 21:32:12 i'm pretty sure from memory that this is "someone else's fault" and "i more or less told them not to do something like that" Aug 14 21:32:32 assuming this is the thing i think it is Aug 14 21:32:39 lol, that sounds like my wednesday after getting back from holidays Aug 14 21:32:44 MohammadAG51: let's take it to mhd Aug 14 21:32:45 heh Aug 14 21:32:52 timeless:hey Aug 14 21:32:55 jani: my summer vacation is coming up in september Aug 14 21:33:06 well, plus a quick weekend trip at the end of august Aug 14 21:33:16 so i'm getting close to the "talk to the calendar" Aug 14 21:33:39 timeless: a dev from collabora did some siptraces on my system. it seems that the gstreamer is buggy on N900 Aug 14 21:33:41 you flying stateside for hols? Aug 14 21:33:42 that said, i'm hungry Aug 14 21:33:48 me too Aug 14 21:33:56 lcuk: British Isles Aug 14 21:33:59 * trip0 goes searching for food Aug 14 21:34:02 trumee: cool Aug 14 21:34:04 i only had 1½ wee off Aug 14 21:34:06 that's progress Aug 14 21:34:13 good progress too Aug 14 21:34:22 timeless, cool, if you come up North give us a shout and can go for beerage :) Aug 14 21:34:25 thanks for the update. now where's my wallet? Aug 14 21:34:32 timeless: but the dev doesnt have time-line to fix it yet. Aug 14 21:34:36 lcuk: lemme see if i have a map Aug 14 21:34:52 timeless: so it is going to suck until then Aug 14 21:35:06 that's normal Aug 14 21:35:34 timeless: what i am surprised about that why there are a few of us only (going by bug report 10388) affected by this. Aug 14 21:35:53 i don't think sip is used quite as often as you think Aug 14 21:35:58 or in the ways you think Aug 14 21:36:05 timeless: yes, that might be the reason Aug 14 21:36:09 i do know that nokia's IT complained about the n900 SIP stack Aug 14 21:36:24 timeless: what was it about? Aug 14 21:36:24 they specifically did not sponsor it as a "use this as a nokia sip client" Aug 14 21:36:53 i don't remember the details, nor was i in a position to understand them <= I'm a browser engineer, not a SIP mechanic! Aug 14 21:37:00 and they gave Really Good headsets instead =) Aug 14 21:37:13 timeless: symbian has a good sip client, wonder why it wasnt used in maemo Aug 14 21:37:19 they recently started giving out MBP adapters Aug 14 21:37:32 i think i've had already 4 of those and going on fifth pair Aug 14 21:37:43 so you could plug in headsets to your Mac's Aug 14 21:37:50 yeah, there was a plastic bag ducttaped on the it door =)) Aug 14 21:38:01 yeah, that was cute, i picked one up, as did sp3000 Aug 14 21:38:11 sp3000 explained that it was ~designed for macs~ Aug 14 21:38:13 timeless: you are the guy who is going to bring flash 10.1 then :p Aug 14 21:38:42 trumee: nah, but there's a team w/ it who would like to. they're trying, and i believe them, and I wish them luck Aug 14 21:38:59 timeless: you just got quoted I think Aug 14 21:39:25 luke-jr: this isn't a commitment Aug 14 21:39:45 timeless: but it's more than the nothing they had before :P Aug 14 21:39:51 merely a "there's a flash team[public knowledge]" and they would like to ship 10.1 for n900 [not a great secret] Aug 14 21:40:08 if you were a dev and had done something cool, wouldn't you like to share? Aug 14 21:40:10 that's all Aug 14 21:40:14 :p Aug 14 21:40:19 just saying Aug 14 21:40:21 whether you actually *can* share is a totally different question Aug 14 21:40:32 sure. just explaining. it really doesn't mean anything will happen Aug 14 21:41:15 luke-jr: i guess it is a matter of time. once meego has flash, it could be brought back to N900 Aug 14 21:41:54 timeless: do you know what wireless router is used for N900 development? Aug 14 21:42:01 lbt, how much effort is involved in creating a obs extras-devel target? Aug 14 21:42:02 trumee: bad logic Aug 14 21:42:25 trumee: there is no reason to think MeeGo apps will be compatible with Maemo Aug 14 21:42:28 cuz much of my stuff depends on stuff in extras-devel Aug 14 21:43:07 luke-jr: if the source is open and the hardware is similar, shouldnt it be possible? Aug 14 21:43:17 trumee: the source is never open Aug 14 21:43:26 hmm.. Aug 14 21:43:28 someone would have to tell me when the meego thingy is and where Aug 14 21:43:39 it isn't in my calendar, and nokia and sponsorships = pain Aug 14 21:43:44 totally not worth my effort Aug 14 21:43:50 * trip0 wonders if he can add libmtf to his home repo Aug 14 21:44:02 timeless: conference you mean ? Aug 14 21:44:06 yeah Aug 14 21:44:09 its in dublin .. Aug 14 21:44:19 timeless: so any idea about wireless router? Aug 14 21:44:26 nope Aug 14 21:44:32 but i dont remember the date :D Aug 14 21:44:37 i think we have ~4 primary routers floating around Aug 14 21:45:07 timeless: i was hoping i could buy a router and use sip with it (to be close to dev team) Aug 14 21:45:22 i had some grand plans to go there too.. just wondering if i could get my linemanager to pay for it. Aug 14 21:45:24 there's a guy Patrik (?) Aug 14 21:45:30 i think he used to have a public presence Aug 14 21:46:10 timeless: ? Aug 14 21:46:11 Patrik Flykt Aug 14 21:46:27 he's a public figure, who works on the wifi stack Aug 14 21:46:27 timeless: Nov. 15-17, 2010 in Dublin, Ireland. Aug 14 21:46:50 timeless: ah ok. Aug 14 21:47:00 ah, that's after i'd be back, i think Aug 14 21:47:25 my trip ends sometime after oct1 Aug 14 21:48:21 anyway, food hunting time Aug 14 21:50:29 timeless, only a little. Aug 14 21:50:43 i.e., a few bug comments and a dozen emails to the list. Aug 14 21:51:08 it's public enough that i'm willing to give out his name :) Aug 14 21:51:30 hrm, i think my n800 is getting gtalked.. Aug 14 21:52:24 that was unexpected.. Aug 14 21:52:42 Can't perform operation. Aug 14 21:52:44 Memory full Aug 14 21:52:51 oh, that's mighty helpful Aug 14 21:52:54 * timeless thanks n800 Aug 14 21:53:18 * jani sees nightmares about "memory full" errors in n8X0 Aug 14 21:53:53 so, i gues i should take my n800 offline so it stops eating my gtalk? Aug 14 21:54:17 * lcuk stops gtalking Aug 14 21:54:55 i'll pull it up in logs :) Aug 14 21:55:09 imagine if this were jabber and my n800 was eating them? :) Aug 14 21:55:44 * timeless kicks a -6 => -7 update which had 0 packages Aug 14 21:55:56 but triggered a reboot, hence leaving the n800 as the winning gtalker Aug 14 21:56:35 timeless, leeds is the closest though Aug 14 21:56:47 infact, it doesn't matter much Aug 14 21:56:51 i will see you in dublin Aug 14 21:57:26 please don't assume i'll make meego-dublin Aug 14 21:57:36 that only happens if someone helps me through the nokia-conference hoops Aug 14 21:57:41 which are ewaytoomucheffort Aug 14 21:58:45 meh, manchester is an hour away by car i will come over for non beer stuff then Aug 14 21:59:36 lcuk, you going to meego-dublin? Aug 14 22:00:51 what is dublin Aug 14 22:00:54 :p Aug 14 22:00:56 should be Aug 14 22:01:14 i wonder if there are youth hostels i could stay in Aug 14 22:01:20 there should be Aug 14 22:01:21 probably somewhere Aug 14 22:01:23 i might do that Aug 14 22:01:26 yeah Aug 14 22:01:44 i think i can afford the tickets and get the vacation time set up Aug 14 22:01:53 rm_you, if you find the info, could you holler on #meego and get them on the wiki etc Aug 14 22:02:05 (may already be there?)_ Aug 14 22:02:47 * trip0 builds mtf for maemo on obs Aug 14 22:02:56 :) Aug 14 22:03:00 mtf? Aug 14 22:03:08 meegotouch Aug 14 22:03:31 ...framework Aug 14 22:03:38 ah, meego is going to have a working syncml Aug 14 22:03:39 frogs Aug 14 22:03:56 anybody ever got opensync working with N900? Aug 14 22:04:33 lbt, expansion errors all over the place Aug 14 22:04:42 what repo am i supposed to build against that works? Aug 14 22:04:58 i get stuff like "nothing provides automake >= 1:1.11," Aug 14 22:05:52 trip0: for libmeegotouch ? Aug 14 22:06:14 jani: well, this is for contextkit, which libmeegotouch needs Aug 14 22:06:27 libmeegotouch will come if I can get these deps built Aug 14 22:06:55 aahk ok, i was thinking someone had added automake to libmeegotouch .. Aug 14 22:07:07 oh, no. :P Aug 14 22:07:38 that would be funny Aug 14 22:07:43 and silly Aug 14 22:08:23 and someone would have gotten a angry mail on monday morning. Aug 14 22:08:32 :P Aug 14 22:11:42 hmm Aug 14 22:11:54 what's the package in maemo to give you build-essential? Aug 14 22:12:15 and what repo do i need to add? Aug 14 22:12:56 maemo sdk + tools Aug 14 22:13:05 Dammit. Aug 14 22:13:08 lcuk, i want to build native on my n900 Aug 14 22:13:09 I need a flying n900. Aug 14 22:13:26 Or a minion to fetch me mine. Aug 14 22:13:35 Or alternatively, a flying sofa. Aug 14 22:13:41 lol Aug 14 22:13:59 trip0, and I was telling you Aug 14 22:14:07 oh Aug 14 22:14:08 build-essential takes about 80mb atm Aug 14 22:14:09 http://repository.maemo.org/#sdk_repositories Aug 14 22:14:29 some of it needs optifying or adding to the boottime optify Aug 14 22:15:00 rm_you, you gonna apply for sponsorship? *eg* Aug 14 22:15:07 build-essential works and it can happily make simple c and c++ apps Aug 14 22:15:07 lcuk, is this going to clog up my root partition? Aug 14 22:15:11 trip0: yes Aug 14 22:15:14 trip0, yes Aug 14 22:15:25 yay, all i need is simple c/c++ compilation Aug 14 22:15:26 trip0: I recommend copying / onto /home/user/data/ or somewhere. Aug 14 22:15:34 trip0: Then chrooting into that Aug 14 22:15:49 hrm Aug 14 22:16:34 will a standard cp / /home/user/data work? i expect no? Aug 14 22:17:13 rootfs has 58152 free :( Aug 14 22:17:40 * lcuk puts build-essential on at first, and I have a lot more stuff on now Aug 14 22:18:06 * trip0 starts uninstalling crap Aug 14 22:19:27 * lcuk added /usr/share/include to /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf Aug 14 22:20:03 what is this optify you speak? Aug 14 22:20:23 root is only 256mb? Aug 14 22:20:24 wth Aug 14 22:20:37 http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime Aug 14 22:20:42 yes Aug 14 22:21:12 http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/blobs/master/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf Aug 14 22:21:15 hrm Aug 14 22:21:15 specifically Aug 14 22:21:46 what's it do? Aug 14 22:22:25 moves out folders from rootfs to a subfolder in /opt Aug 14 22:22:32 and symlinks the folder Aug 14 22:23:13 lcuk: why not /usr/share ? Aug 14 22:23:22 oh cool Aug 14 22:23:44 is in extras-devel? Aug 14 22:23:57 no trip0, its on the filesystem since pr1.2 Aug 14 22:24:13 oh, cool Aug 14 22:33:33 I've used Mobility a good deal in the past three months Aug 14 22:34:02 dang Aug 14 22:34:23 this buffer was scrolled way back in its history, I was responding to a conversation from a day or so ago Aug 14 22:34:53 heh Aug 14 22:40:59 hi ! we cannot upload : Aug 14 22:41:01 error: unpack failed: unpacker exited with error code Aug 14 22:41:02 [00:29] To ssh://drop.maemo.org/git/vlc-remote Aug 14 22:41:04 [00:29] ! [remote rejected] master -> master (n/a (unpacker error)) Aug 14 23:32:20 DrIDK: one word: lol Aug 14 23:33:03 crashanddie: ... :( Aug 14 23:33:31 hello, is there somewhere online I can download the stock zImage kernel file? all i can find is the power-users package Aug 14 23:34:28 and google seems full of overclockers when i try search for it :) Aug 14 23:34:44 you could use flasher to extract it from the fiasco firmware image Aug 14 23:35:00 exactly Aug 14 23:35:17 um yeah .. lets assume its to late for that :( Aug 14 23:35:20 only location to find it afaik Aug 14 23:35:30 err how? Aug 14 23:35:43 droped a modified one over the top Aug 14 23:35:54 (as provided by a 3rd party) Aug 14 23:36:03 flasher does the extraction on your computer not on the phone Aug 14 23:36:06 its some command line option Aug 14 23:36:07 no idea what you're talking bout Aug 14 23:36:40 i was given a replacement, and it running that now. (this is experimental stuff, for work) Aug 14 23:36:52 however its also a nice phone - so i'd like to revert, is all. Aug 14 23:36:54 download fiasco*COMBINED* from Nokia site, use flasher to extract zimage Aug 14 23:37:06 oh i see. Aug 14 23:37:33 for sume reason i though your meant from the fiasco image on the device Aug 14 23:37:43 thanks Aug 14 23:37:51 yw Aug 14 23:38:28 iw Aug 14 23:39:04 ew Aug 14 23:44:43 nite all, sweet dreams Aug 15 00:03:47 thanks for the tip, got it back all good now Aug 15 00:18:04 GAN900: hadn't planned on it Aug 15 00:18:17 GAN900: I haven't done ANYTHING in the past like five months Aug 15 00:38:19 has anybody received the neopwn backtrack copy? Aug 15 02:11:11 hello Aug 15 02:11:24 i need some help Aug 15 02:12:50 any1 here? Aug 15 02:15:06 what? Aug 15 02:15:19 i have a prob Aug 15 02:15:29 with my nok n900 Aug 15 02:15:44 i wish i had the problem of owning a n900 :) Aug 15 02:16:29 khristi80: What's the problem? Aug 15 02:17:28 shortly.....memory device storage unsupported/memory card corrupted Aug 15 02:19:29 i've had a problem with my usb first....the phine was not charging anymore.....i've sent it to repair....and when i've got it back i've had this prob Aug 15 02:19:36 any help? Aug 15 02:19:40 Anyone know what APN I need to set for Tmobile in the US? Aug 15 02:20:42 * rm_you tries to interpret the forum thread Aug 15 02:21:36 khristi80, is it formatted as fat32? the memory card Aug 15 02:21:47 khristi80: is this when you insert a microSD card? Aug 15 02:23:42 i don't know if is fat 32 Aug 15 02:24:53 i've told u...i've sent my phone to a repair centre bcs it was not charging anymore....and when i got it back and switched on....it appeared me device storage format unsupported Aug 15 02:25:24 and when i check on settings/memory it appears me memory card corrupted Aug 15 02:25:48 Is there a memory card in there? Aug 15 02:25:50 good morning Aug 15 02:26:50 no....the prob is that the device memory is corrupted....if i go to file manager it doesn't appear me nothing Aug 15 02:27:29 and if i type df -h on xterm it doesn't show me the 32gib memory Aug 15 02:28:35 khristi80: hmm. Aug 15 02:29:10 i have flashed the device....with both fiasco&emmc and the problem is still not solved Aug 15 02:29:13 khristi80: 3-4 people here have reported that the internal flash SD card has died. Aug 15 02:30:31 if i try to mount it with 'mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /home/user' and run df -h the memory appears but is still corrupted and my file managare doesn't see it Aug 15 02:30:53 cat /proc/partitions? Aug 15 02:31:04 Anyone know what APN I need to set for Tmobile in the US? Aug 15 02:31:09 epc.tmobile.com Aug 15 02:31:23 LiraNuna: only for monthly plans Aug 15 02:31:33 hiptop.t-mobile.com for Hiptop/Prepaid Aug 15 02:31:33 http://pastebin.com/nU2jWxAh shows here khristi80 Aug 15 02:31:39 i have the monthly plan with the 9.99 internet Aug 15 02:31:47 and after that if i run rm -rf /home/user and after that reboot the device is working like before but on my next reboot or switch off/on the problem appears again Aug 15 02:32:05 I have the $1/day data-only prepaid :P Aug 15 02:32:57 oh, isn't that one not working for data anymore? Aug 15 02:33:04 khristi80: http://pastebin.com/aNPqB323 - sfdisk -l also Aug 15 02:33:07 rm -rf /home/user ??? o.O Aug 15 02:33:08 the voicestream02 one Aug 15 02:33:23 khristi80: Can you pastebin stuff from it? Aug 15 02:33:32 LiraNuna: it works only if you have that plan :p Aug 15 02:33:39 ah Aug 15 02:33:40 though ports 80 and 443 are blocked Aug 15 02:33:47 heh Aug 15 02:34:14 a little iptables magic, ssh, and transocks, and that's easily bypassed Aug 15 02:34:29 tbh it's highly unlikely the device will correctly boot after rm -rf /home/user Aug 15 02:34:33 with a lot of overhead Aug 15 02:34:39 LiraNuna: lot? not really Aug 15 02:35:02 network has to pipe through a server Aug 15 02:35:09 in any case, it's the only realistic option for T-Mobile if you value your privacy Aug 15 02:35:15 LiraNuna: only those ports Aug 15 02:35:20 which isn't when it matters Aug 15 02:35:31 SIP and such aren't blocked Aug 15 02:37:20 anyone here have experience with multi-threaded OGL on maemo5? Aug 15 02:37:39 khristi80: I suggest another full reflash, correct sequence eMMC first, then rootfs, without booting in between Aug 15 02:38:22 i have done that...but nothing's changed# Aug 15 02:40:25 if i run cat /proc/partitions i get this message major minor #blocks name Aug 15 02:40:38 179 0 1932164 mmcblk0 Aug 15 02:40:49 179 1 1931256 mmcblk0p1 Aug 15 02:41:07 179 8 31264768 mmcblk1 Aug 15 02:41:17 179 9 28315648 mmcblk1p1 Aug 15 02:41:27 179 10 2091752 mmcblk1p1 Aug 15 02:41:37 179 11 786432 mmcblk1p3 Aug 15 02:41:47 blk1p1 is listed twice?? Aug 15 02:42:02 that looks rather messed up Aug 15 02:42:03 srry mmcblk1p2 Aug 15 02:42:06 ah Aug 15 02:42:21 hmm Aug 15 02:42:27 and partition is larger than whole device? Aug 15 02:42:54 in settings memory i have this Aug 15 02:42:54 umm no Aug 15 02:43:08 device(memory card corrupted) Aug 15 02:43:22 memory for instalable applications 1.85 gb Aug 15 02:43:37 anyway, I suggest doublechecking for correct procedure and file, and redo full reflash Aug 15 02:44:09 and remove uSD card! Aug 15 02:44:12 i have done full reflash few times and nothing's changed Aug 15 02:44:29 i have done it and without sd card and the same Aug 15 02:44:39 yesyes but have you also done doublecheck? Aug 15 02:45:34 repeating same little typo over and over, or flashing same wrong image 3 times - won't help Aug 15 02:45:51 if i run now rm -rf /home/user and after that reboot....after reboot the device is working right i mean i'll have 26.98gh device and 1.85 mem4 ins app but on next reboot it returns to the same problem Aug 15 02:46:07 doublecheck? Aug 15 02:46:17 I would want to run badblocks against it. Aug 15 02:46:38 that's raqther nonsensical to do rm ~use Aug 15 02:47:20 i know but after that is working till the ne Aug 15 02:47:32 next reboot or switch on/off Aug 15 02:48:11 mhm Aug 15 02:48:28 :) Aug 15 02:48:37 i mean i can browse files and opened it....i can copy files from pc or sd card to device and the other way Aug 15 02:48:47 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39448 - somewhat offtopic. (cheap tablet android) Aug 15 02:49:12 that's not you causing that with rm, that was me sacrificing a cpu in microwave Aug 15 02:49:30 haha Aug 15 02:51:13 reflash correct images in correct sequence with correct procedure. then boot, check dmesg, run fsck Aug 15 02:52:01 pastebin copy of the whole procedure flashing and dmesg and fsck Aug 15 02:52:06 and if run mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /home/user/MyDocs the device memory card is still corrupted but i can browse with file manager and open images,videos&music from memory.....only i can't delete them or add something to memory because it shows me read-only Aug 15 02:52:13 also mount Aug 15 02:52:25 df -h Aug 15 02:52:43 and of course id Aug 15 02:53:39 after i run the mount command and after that df -h as result it shows me the memory .....but the memory is still corrupted Aug 15 02:53:53 rm -rf ~user will erase MyDocs as well aiui Aug 15 02:55:51 i know that....but if i run rm -rf /user/home and reboot / Aug 15 02:56:22 when my phone restarts is working normal.....until next reboot or switch on/off Aug 15 02:56:25 khristi80: I would try mkfs.vfat /dev/whateverrmydocsis Aug 15 02:56:30 eMMC should manage bad blocks automatically. If you get fs corrupted msg you either flashed wrong image or in wrong way, or you managed to corrupt fs after flashing Aug 15 02:58:04 and it's highly uninteresting if phone 'works norma' after erasing everything in eMMC (which btw isn't likely) Aug 15 02:58:06 i've told you when i got my device from repair centre(bcs was not charging anymore)....when i switch on the device i've got this prob Aug 15 02:58:30 mhm, so what? Aug 15 02:59:09 i've flashed right...i know how to do that Aug 15 02:59:15 rm /home/user/* will triggerrr some one-time process Aug 15 02:59:40 To populate /home/user with a template **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 15 02:59:57 2010