**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 21 02:59:57 2010 Aug 21 03:05:50 moin raster Aug 21 03:06:06 raster smells like poo! Aug 21 03:06:24 PONG! Aug 21 03:06:31 * raster flings poo @ mortini Aug 21 03:06:37 DocScrutinizer: boo Aug 21 03:06:42 :-D Aug 21 03:07:09 * mortini ducks. Aug 21 03:07:15 * mortini whips out umbrella. Aug 21 03:07:21 ha! Aug 21 03:08:51 LASERS Aug 21 03:09:03 PEW PEW! Aug 21 03:09:18 O_O Aug 21 03:09:22 raster: can you give me a window manager with more LASER BEAMS? i've been looking for one. Aug 21 03:11:22 535nm, 0.15W is *lame* Aug 21 03:11:36 ISS will never notice :-S Aug 21 03:11:52 raster: preferably with sharks, too. Aug 21 03:12:19 sharks don't fit Aug 21 03:12:30 lies! Aug 21 03:12:35 they make room! Aug 21 03:14:31 * DocScrutinizer shoots a tiny hole into mortini's trousers with that 0.15W 535nm laser Aug 21 03:15:13 DocScrutinizer: oobaby. you tease. Aug 21 03:16:39 * b-man|laptop yawns Aug 21 03:16:56 indeed. Aug 21 03:16:59 i'm out of vodka. Aug 21 03:17:00 it sucks. Aug 21 03:17:11 I have some tequila, but not sure i'm man enough to drink it. Aug 21 03:17:34 sissi Aug 21 03:18:04 Who maintains the Pidgin port? Aug 21 03:18:09 mortini: sorry. my poo flinging monkeys ate all my spare sharks Aug 21 03:18:21 raster: jerk :( Aug 21 03:19:07 well. Aug 21 03:19:15 raster: jerk monkeys :( Aug 21 03:21:59 * DocScrutinizer yawns Aug 21 03:22:08 DocScrutinizer: what TZ do you live in? Aug 21 03:22:18 my very own Aug 21 03:22:29 seems so :) Aug 21 03:23:02 raster: my memory is cloudy, did you used to hang out on #slashdot on the slashdot net in, uh, like '97/98? Aug 21 03:23:23 has anyone tried to put their N900 inside a N810 shell? Aug 21 03:23:39 I'd say Pacific American Aug 21 03:23:58 shell, like ??? Aug 21 03:24:20 DocScrutinizer: just curious, because you seem to have somewhat similar active ranges as me. Aug 21 03:24:42 DocScrutinizer: the externals :P Aug 21 03:24:50 especially screen & kb Aug 21 03:25:07 * luke-jr wonders if the LCD cable is the same Aug 21 03:25:21 luke-jr: sorry still don't get it - there's been a pouch coming with N810 Aug 21 03:25:26 i'd be doubtful Aug 21 03:25:29 ugh. tequila. Aug 21 03:25:41 DocScrutinizer: putting the N900 board into a N810 Aug 21 03:25:50 no way Aug 21 03:26:11 well, I'd remove the N810 board obviously Aug 21 03:26:13 LCD main FPC won't fit Aug 21 03:26:16 ☹ Aug 21 03:27:01 oh well Aug 21 03:27:10 Nokia's N9 keyboard thing looks a LITTLE saner at least Aug 21 03:27:14 but still only 3 rows… Aug 21 03:28:00 compare http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/n810_disassembly/snc00264_jpg.jpeg.html and http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900/images/IMG_1941.JPG Aug 21 03:28:21 wtf N9? Aug 21 03:28:22 * b-man|laptop thought he saw 4, unless you exclude the spacebar, sym, ctrl, and directional keys Aug 21 03:28:51 DocScrutinizer: honestly, those look the same to me… Aug 21 03:29:35 maybe they look same to you, but I'm not sure they are. Had to check to make absolutely sure Aug 21 03:30:07 humm... Aug 21 03:30:16 mortini: god,. maybe. my memory would be hazy on that so far back Aug 21 03:30:41 DocScrutinizer: not sure they are, or are sure they're not? Aug 21 03:30:48 they *could* be compatible, at least from walking down all the interfaces that go to N81/900 screen half Aug 21 03:31:17 b-man|laptop: my bad, they DO have 4 Aug 21 03:31:30 DocScrutinizer: Nokia N9: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/08/10x08108h3434tf.jpg Aug 21 03:32:51 raster: haha. yeah. I have memories of you and mandrake in that era, not sure if you hung out in #slashdot or if it was just in my mind. Aug 21 03:32:54 hmmmpff Aug 21 03:32:58 grrrmmbl Aug 21 03:33:04 http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277333 has internal pic Aug 21 03:33:13 mortini: i am sure i hung out on some irc Aug 21 03:33:15 such a nice design, and still so fscked up Aug 21 03:33:16 it may have been efnet Aug 21 03:33:20 but not of the connector Aug 21 03:33:24 i may have been on #slashdot Aug 21 03:33:32 but too hazy Aug 21 03:33:41 those two aren't mutually exclusive :)yeah Aug 21 03:33:43 er, sorry Aug 21 03:33:44 yeah Aug 21 03:39:25 http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277338 *W*T*F*!?! same crappy SMT USB receptacle, but even more monstrous plug?? Aug 21 03:39:38 have fun Nokia Aug 21 03:45:19 hmm, no stylus - of course, for c-ts - no kbd backlight... Shiny but I guess I don't like it Aug 21 03:45:39 bat lid screwed on :-o Aug 21 03:46:00 well, bat lid says "Proto B2" :-P Aug 21 03:46:23 keep in mind that this is also a prototype ;) Aug 21 03:46:35 the final model might be made of cheese and have shape of a banana Aug 21 03:46:43 rofl Aug 21 03:46:49 and the LUBE Aug 21 03:47:00 man, i like my n900 for a number of reasons, but i dislike it for a number of reasons, too :I Aug 21 03:47:05 c-ts? Aug 21 03:47:13 bet its c Aug 21 03:47:17 captive touchscreen Aug 21 03:47:34 DocScrutinizer: a banana phone! :D Aug 21 03:47:37 c-ts would increase the need for them to ship a stylus IMO Aug 21 03:47:46 since you can't use just any old pointy object Aug 21 03:47:47 b-man|laptop: ringringringringringringringringring Aug 21 03:47:58 b-man|laptop: i have my hunches :) Aug 21 03:48:17 hehe Aug 21 03:48:40 there's no such thing like exactly a stylus for c-ts - there's wieners though Aug 21 03:49:24 like the eraser top end of a pencil Aug 21 03:49:40 if you call that stylus, well then... Aug 21 03:50:59 whatever you use, no use in 'pointy objects' as c-ts has much too low resolution and accuracy Aug 21 03:52:52 http://www.heise.de/ct/inhalt/2010/17/122/ Aug 21 03:56:20 the way c-ts works you need a _touch_area_ of at least 7mm diameter, with usually opaque conducting material. No way to include such a "stylus" to N9 any reasonable way - and no use in it as well Aug 21 03:57:38 http://www.marions-kochbuch.de/index-bilder/wiener-wuerstchen.jpg :-P Aug 21 03:58:01 best ever stylus for c-ts Aug 21 03:58:32 maybe Nokia can ship N9 with mustard built in Aug 21 04:04:18 * DocScrutinizer wonders idly about the ~50k trolls filling up the assumed N9 thread on tmo, probably on page 756463 now - burrrp Aug 21 04:30:55 OMFG - ...and the kbd mat seems to be dead flesh rubber Aug 21 05:07:00 * Stskeeps yawns Aug 21 05:08:42 indeedy. Aug 21 05:11:56 tmo is down? Aug 21 05:36:18 hooray Aug 21 05:36:33 morn DocScrutinizer Aug 21 05:37:20 morn Stskeeps Aug 21 05:37:30 pest control closed tmo? :-P Aug 21 05:38:15 hopefully Aug 21 05:38:44 is it pulseaudio that allows switching audio from the speakers to the FM transmitter on the fly? Aug 21 05:39:48 * DocScrutinizer just musing over Project Coach-DEV00000016 Aug 21 05:41:16 koala_man: yep Aug 21 05:43:28 DocScrutinizer: anything relevant to you? Aug 21 05:44:02 feels a bit less like a missmatch - compared to others there Aug 21 05:46:20 koala_man: to be more specific, it's probably the policy engine and policy enforcement module that do those on-the-fly switches Aug 21 05:46:46 is that a maemo thing or a pulseaudio thing? Aug 21 05:47:49 koala_man: http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf might help a bit Aug 21 05:48:57 your question however is hard to answer Aug 21 05:49:21 If I had to pick ne, I'd say maemo thing Aug 21 05:51:36 tbh I probably have no clue, and best you look at source code of any app doing that switching. E.g. FMradio can switch, and afaik it's oss Aug 21 05:51:53 open source software, not open sound system Aug 21 05:51:59 phew Aug 21 05:52:20 * Stskeeps wonders if open source fundamentalists is just a bad a thing for open source as religious fundamentalists are for religion Aug 21 05:52:31 i believe you set a default audio output device with the pulseaudio api Aug 21 05:52:45 Stskeeps: yes, although fewer people die Aug 21 05:52:48 Stskeeps: religious fundamentalists are good for religion Aug 21 05:52:55 they're the ones who are religious Aug 21 05:53:09 yes, but the aggressive ones? :P Aug 21 05:53:20 like, insisting others should follow their way Aug 21 05:53:21 they're bad for peace and society, but good for religion Aug 21 05:53:22 and religion is good for... whom now? Aug 21 05:53:38 the pope Aug 21 05:53:48 Stskeeps: you're thinking of RMS? Aug 21 05:54:09 that should be a swear word Aug 21 05:54:22 RMS? Aug 21 05:54:25 :-D Aug 21 05:54:27 yes Aug 21 05:54:50 I had the plreasure to never meet him X-D Aug 21 05:55:33 and yet i'm sure he's still left a scar on you Aug 21 05:55:45 you bet Aug 21 05:56:56 had to learn his mantras by heart when I was responsible for choosing HW components that may come with firmware, like WLAN, BT, dunno what Aug 21 05:57:23 DocScrutinizer: in this particular case, the reactions to not opening BME and in general, people not understanding that all nokia source starts out as closed source and what comes out of open sourcing process is untainted by patents, future copyright claims, etc.. Aug 21 05:58:06 *nod* & *sigh* Aug 21 05:59:16 i have trouble with freedom fighting people that insist you must have freedom or have thrown tomatoes at you.. that's not freedom in my view Aug 21 05:59:43 I'd be half that concerned about closed BME if it came with proper 'API' doc Aug 21 05:59:52 define API doc Aug 21 06:00:15 * DocScrutinizer knew he'd ask that :-S :-P Aug 21 06:00:36 what -is- happening, however, is that BME is going redistributable Aug 21 06:00:44 well, first of all BME *has no* API. :-D Aug 21 06:01:27 and i think it should be possible to get the BME communication protocol opened to some extent, as we need that in meego Aug 21 06:01:36 see, for a WLAN module you might have FW blobs or even kernel or userland closed drivers Aug 21 06:02:39 right, at least with kernel we keep that open Aug 21 06:02:54 but you get a decent API specifying how to talk to the whole blackbox, and usually you'd also want a abstract explanation of how the blackbox works, at least to a degree so you understand what the API calls really are doing Aug 21 06:03:02 ah Aug 21 06:03:38 well, do you (honestly) need more than information gathering APIs? Aug 21 06:04:01 then get a foss linux wrapper around the blob, so you can recompile for new kernels / systems Aug 21 06:04:40 (heh, I'm coaching again, don't I?) Aug 21 06:04:45 :-D Aug 21 06:04:53 nah, constructive conversation Aug 21 06:05:21 sure, just had a peek at my stack ;-) Aug 21 06:06:05 ( information gathering APIs) could you rephrase please? Aug 21 06:06:27 well, accessors not mutators Aug 21 06:06:49 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/BME_Protocol for instance Aug 21 06:07:04 up already! tis Saturday! Aug 21 06:07:07 yep, there's probably a lot inside there Aug 21 06:07:53 i think what is really most important is that the blob is maintained. Aug 21 06:08:01 and problems with it noticed and dealth it. Aug 21 06:08:07 dealt Aug 21 06:08:24 but, for example, it's completely unclear how BME manages to have such crappy capacity guestimates, and also the picture at large isn't clear what bme actually does Aug 21 06:09:06 mm Aug 21 06:09:34 okay, so, let's imagine you were a regular user/developer/perhaps image generator for meego in general Aug 21 06:09:39 what matters to you in this case? Aug 21 06:09:42 1) the blob works Aug 21 06:09:44 wrt to e.g throttling clock and / or charge current on overtemp. How it deals with battery errors and special conditions, etc pp Aug 21 06:10:00 2) you can redistribute the blob without getting your pants sued off Aug 21 06:10:11 3) you can access information/get notifications on charging and battery state Aug 21 06:10:32 .. what else is there? Aug 21 06:10:47 mhm, but you know (I know you know) BME needs to know about USB ENUM etc Aug 21 06:10:51 charger detect Aug 21 06:10:57 charger detect is actually oss Aug 21 06:11:04 a lot of shit outside BME primary domain Aug 21 06:11:04 sec Aug 21 06:11:35 yello Aug 21 06:11:40 punk Aug 21 06:12:16 moaning TermanaN900 Aug 21 06:12:28 DocScrutinizer: http://lkml.org/lkml/2010/8/19/30 Aug 21 06:12:55 Stskeeps, is it possible to use BME API somehow... to receive async messages (about battery capacity changes, charging status) without polling? Aug 21 06:13:02 I agree with the blob is ok with conditions such as that, document what it is, what is does and how to interact with it, minimize the blob part as much as possible by reducing the scope as far as possible Aug 21 06:13:29 odin_: 'what it does' is OK in high level abstractions? otherwise it might as well just be source code Aug 21 06:13:33 e-yes: yes Aug 21 06:13:44 e-yes: hopefully we'll see more of that code in meego Aug 21 06:14:24 the maintenance aspect is about making sure it always conforms to the documentation (so both kernel / user-space and its API / interaction) Aug 21 06:15:09 e-yes: hald-addon-bme (real one) does it like that Aug 21 06:15:40 yes if there is some IP inside it, that would not be documented, however the application should try to minimize all the stuff around that IP as much as possible like a wet-suit (i.e. reducing the scope) not huge monolithic blob with a tiny bit of IP Aug 21 06:15:52 wb DocScrutinizer, saw my latest url? Aug 21 06:16:01 lkml? Aug 21 06:16:04 yeah Aug 21 06:16:07 so? Aug 21 06:16:09 that's clearly USB-musb-core domain, and BME shouldn't rely on that or put special demand on it Aug 21 06:16:10 odin_: not disagreeing a layer would be nice Aug 21 06:16:28 mmpf, friggin freenet servers Aug 21 06:16:44 DocScrutinizer: well, USB transceiver Aug 21 06:17:09 mompls, catching up in chanlog Aug 21 06:18:04 odin_: i think first off we need to get it redistributable but that's obviously never the end of the story Aug 21 06:18:22 as there'll be practical concerns, like, how to interface to get battery info in an open manner, etc Aug 21 06:18:54 yes any progress in the right direction is welcomed, even if it is far from fantastic Aug 21 06:19:27 we don't like blobs in meego on n900, they're horribly impractical for us Aug 21 06:19:28 :P Aug 21 06:20:01 I wonder if Trusted Execution can be wrapped up like this too? I just see mobile malware being a problem and I guess Intel will soon (within the next 3 years) have an open offering Aug 21 06:21:03 odin_: I fail to see how the whole "TP" / TE concept will help on that Aug 21 06:21:07 DocScrutinizer, did not read my reply on that topic before, why is DRM good reply Aug 21 06:21:18 odin_: afaik AEGIS will be oss Aug 21 06:22:18 well those questions can be asked later anyhow, its too early on that right now Aug 21 06:24:32 sure there are several techniques to block some malware from infecting a executable or even the kernel, but all those are around for quite some time, and TPM / DRM isn't anything that'd give a new leverage to the problem, except when restricting user's rights Aug 21 06:24:35 DocScrutinizer: freerunner had a 3d chip or how was it? Aug 21 06:25:05 glamo was a errr... 2.5D chip Aug 21 06:25:17 how was licensing? Aug 21 06:25:25 awkward Aug 21 06:26:02 even affiliated personal wasn't allowed to see the 1500p docs Aug 21 06:26:17 heh Aug 21 06:26:46 i think landscape is slowly changing atm at least, i mean, personally i'm happy to have redistributable SGX libraries Aug 21 06:26:55 i don't care much for the source Aug 21 06:27:08 sure, as long as they behave Aug 21 06:27:42 :nod: Aug 21 06:28:02 i kinda like that there's a shade of 'must be maintained or perish' feeling in meego Aug 21 06:28:29 mhm Aug 21 06:28:51 kinda like kernel mainline Aug 21 06:29:22 well AMD have finally completed on their statement (re graphics card drivers) if the headline is true Aug 21 06:29:27 odin_: mm? Aug 21 06:30:34 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_evergreen_3d&num=1 "Open-Source 2D, 3D For ATI Radeon HD 5000 Series GPUs" Aug 21 06:31:15 hrhrhrr, they finally managed to clean out all the benchmark cheating? :-P Aug 21 06:32:43 Shh! it is called Intellectual Property....hmm... I wonder if BME makes your matter look bigger ? OSS replacement bme_viagra ? Aug 21 06:35:24 at least i'm happy to see that landscape is really changing. i mean, before meego announcement i wouldn't be forseen nokia kernel developers discussing bme interfaces publically in a irc channel along with redistributable powervr libraries from intel, or even n900 drivers getting upstreamed properly :) Aug 21 06:35:48 so there seems to be a will to change the status quo. Aug 21 06:36:08 Woot to the Stskeeps cattle pod (aka Mer) Aug 21 06:36:45 i think part of it is that intel did not bend on that we have to follow upstream, easy to get lazy otherwise Aug 21 06:36:48 :P Aug 21 06:36:49 quite sensible notion on that, of those in charge to decide. In the end the maintenance is a never ending PITA Aug 21 06:36:50 just need to wring out the SSSE3 matter properly at Intel now Aug 21 06:36:57 DocScrutinizer: even for OSS it's a PITA Aug 21 06:36:58 :P Aug 21 06:37:32 Stskeeps, Unable to find a source package for hald-addon-bme Aug 21 06:37:46 * RST38h yawns Aug 21 06:37:48 ehlo all Aug 21 06:37:58 have another hour in bed Aug 21 06:38:02 e-yes: bingo Aug 21 06:38:02 :P Aug 21 06:38:20 lol Aug 21 06:39:08 220-Hello RST38h, go back to bed\n220-LAZYMODE\n220-SLEEPNOW\n220 Have a nice day! Aug 21 06:40:00 odin_: i personally see the SSSE3 battle as lost cos application SDKs will build for SSSE3 by default. Aug 21 06:41:21 Hmm I don't, 1) there is still time to fix it, 2) I expect to be able to roll a complete MeeGo 1.1 (for i386/i686/n8x0) before release/summit Aug 21 06:41:22 what's that SSSE3 thing? why shouldn't it be used, or what else was it I didn't get? Aug 21 06:41:43 SSSE3 is the streaming extensions to the SSE3 instruction set Aug 21 06:41:52 yepyep Aug 21 06:42:11 SSE3 is the Intel instruction set for floating point / pseudo parallel computations Aug 21 06:42:27 what's wrong with it? Aug 21 06:42:32 the issue for me boils down to Intel choosing to make "i686" (uname -m) mean "i686 + SSSE3 support" which is not the same for desktop linux (or other distros) Aug 21 06:42:39 The problem with SSSE3 is that it is fairly new and a lot of the current Intel hardware out there does not have it Aug 21 06:43:46 the difference is that it will enable the use of additional instructions by GCC for General Purpose Code Generation, but those binaries will try to run on classic i686 desktop machines without any sign of obvious compatibility (and there is one) Aug 21 06:43:48 aaaahyes Aug 21 06:44:00 In the meanwhile, I have been wondering if anyone with a bit of time and MaemoSDK handy could look at the icon rotation in the hildon-desktop? Aug 21 06:44:18 I can even TELL that guy what exactly has to be done Aug 21 06:44:52 re the rolling a complete MeeGo 1.1 for i386/i686/n8x0, I am looking for someone with storage and bandwidth to host it (since I can't do that as well) Aug 21 06:46:45 obviously Intel in the meego-dev list talked of who and how is going to support it, but thats a moot point, it shows they are not thinking correctly about how things work, they are thinking like a corporation releasing a product (and I don't blame them for that) Aug 21 06:47:12 anyhow this is #maemo Aug 21 06:55:27 nayhow that's what I felt all the time when diving into meego - or trying to do that Aug 21 06:56:02 got BW but no storage (repost, freenode server sucks) Aug 21 06:57:07 3 cheers to mgedmin for povbot Aug 21 06:58:01 sure, thats something that can be worked out even at the last minute over the coming months, but I do see the problem addressed by "Who has control of the SDK" and do you use Intel's SDK but only run on SSSE3 or another SDK that allows you app to run everything and its the developers who are complaining users don't care Aug 21 06:58:54 sure Aug 21 06:59:19 odin_: i think they're actually making sense about 'who will support it and who will do it' as there's genuine resources and money involved. even ubuntu doesn't move forward without people getting donations or people spearheading/taking a shovel Aug 21 07:00:16 it always bends down to that someone has to take a feature, be responsible to maintain it, and do the patch/work/whatever Aug 21 07:00:29 this should trigger Intel to be responsible in the matter and deal with the problem in a mutually acceptable way, i.e. customers who buy MeeGo software but run it on i386 disto and it fails means bad press. I support the notion of optimization but not the method/path chosen to do it Aug 21 07:00:43 apps sdk is a funny matter, agreed Aug 21 07:00:59 and i think it's entirely fair to say 'we're not going to stop you, but we don't have the resoruces to do it or we won't spend them on this project' Aug 21 07:01:10 I think its fair too Aug 21 07:01:52 however, default optflags in sdk is .. interesting Aug 21 07:01:58 Stskeeps: You mean, it is a question of who will recompile Meego with a different compilation switch? :) Aug 21 07:02:06 RST38h: and devote the build resources to it Aug 21 07:02:09 Stskeeps: And that apparently requires a shitload of resources? Aug 21 07:02:34 I dont think so, to just roll the final release Aug 21 07:04:13 also not every package needs to make it, but all those on any demo/download, all SDK/tools, etc.. so the experience is there for those users who are not yet ready to jump in with new hardware, I also realise that everyone in 5 years will have SSSE3 hardware but that is not the point Aug 21 07:04:49 RST38h: it does take a while Aug 21 07:06:09 RST38h: if you have to track every weekly/daily Aug 21 07:06:23 but if you do not? Aug 21 07:06:40 no just releases (that make it out of :Unstable) Aug 21 07:08:39 okaaay. my second n900 usb connector starts to die Aug 21 07:08:58 odin_: aiui meego will fail on systems without SSSE3, with SIGILL? Aug 21 07:09:36 both survived ~5 months Aug 21 07:11:04 any application will fail terminally when the program executes an unknown instruction, ali in #meego was reporting on exactly which i686 MeeGo binaries use SSSE3 and the results indicate only glibc uses it Aug 21 07:12:27 Well, there is a way around it Aug 21 07:12:28 slonopotamus: that's odd. It seems to be somewhat dependant on usage patern rather than particularly faulty build. Let alone the USB receptacle and plug design is flawed fundamentally Aug 21 07:12:55 but the talk from Intel employees (on meego-dev) of massive performance boosts, but.. I think they confused -mtune (sets the instruction scheduling order to match CPU pipelines and branch prediction etc...) with -march (sets the Instruction Set Architecture), no one is saying don't -mtune the complaint is about -march Aug 21 07:13:17 DocScrutinizer: it didn't fall of yet, but gets/loses contact Aug 21 07:14:40 the problem with USB is it's way too simple to apply bending force to the recepacle via the long plug lever Aug 21 07:15:37 e.g. when device drops, or when placed on flexible base like bed or sofa, and then even minimally pushing down the device Aug 21 07:16:05 DocScrutinizer: i didn't find any anti-fall devices in n900 box :/ Aug 21 07:16:19 even when plug/unplug in a "careless" manner Aug 21 07:16:52 i do not plug/unplug it any way different i plug/unplug other things Aug 21 07:18:16 slonopotamus: well, that's the problem maybe Aug 21 07:18:49 sure it's Nokia's problem Aug 21 07:19:04 btw, n8x0 had other problem. if it fell with charger plugged, with very high chance it broke thin thingie that is plugged into charge hole on tablet. luckily, new chargers for n8x0 are just $3 here Aug 21 07:19:31 maybe $5 Aug 21 07:19:45 but nevertheless, it's an explanation why devices tend to fail in numbers with one user, and don't with another user Aug 21 07:20:15 slonopotamus: (N810) *nod* Aug 21 07:20:31 slonopotamus: my charger plug is like 45° :-D Aug 21 07:20:43 haha :) one of mine too Aug 21 07:20:56 and 2 broken Aug 21 07:21:49 one of my N900 chargers is broken. Just stopped working... *shrug* Aug 21 07:22:15 happens Aug 21 07:22:16 * slonopotamus considers taking n900 to repair service, replacing usb connector again and selling it away Aug 21 07:22:35 slono: Getting an android? Aug 21 07:22:39 * RST38h hides Aug 21 07:23:25 RST38h: maybe :P how long n900 warranty is? i need to catch the moment when _next_ usb breakage will happen after it ends :) Aug 21 07:23:37 in eu, its 2 years Aug 21 07:24:22 slono: 1 year afaik Aug 21 07:24:53 slono: Well once it ends, you go to Savelka or something and ask them to not just resolder it, but cover the whole freaking thing with epoxy Aug 21 07:27:22 how do i check what's wrong with sip on my phone? Aug 21 07:27:25 RST38h: hmm... one year will come soon (november) Aug 21 07:44:30 is the fix of the usb connector something nokia care does right there? Aug 21 07:44:47 or is it substitution-worthy at least? Aug 21 07:45:17 afaik neither, its generally a send it away and solder on a new one Aug 21 07:45:41 :( Aug 21 07:45:51 how much do they take? Aug 21 07:45:56 time-wise, i mean Aug 21 07:59:32 kerio: when my first one broke, they just replaced whole motherboard Aug 21 08:00:36 which still has the connectors soldered on? Aug 21 08:02:40 i'm sure Aug 21 08:03:08 something that could be repaired by hand probably Aug 21 08:03:27 breaks your warranty, but still i guess good once warranties run up Aug 21 08:05:11 Morning, all Aug 21 08:10:23 irc Aug 21 08:10:37 sorry wrong window Aug 21 08:11:08 i'm sorry too Aug 21 08:12:18 do they ever substitute right there? Aug 21 08:12:24 i really can't live without my n900 anymore :( Aug 21 08:24:07 psycho_oreos: sure. second one is about to break too Aug 21 08:25:39 slonopotamus, *shakes head* makes you wonder why wouldn't they bother to secure it firmly knowing that this device will be subjected to various wear-and-tear throughout the life of the device by its owners Aug 21 08:36:09 Some people must be using their n900s too hard Aug 21 08:37:26 Im pretty rough with mine and its not breaking. Although slider and lock slider seems less stiff Aug 21 08:40:31 new main PCB have USB rcptcl glued on I heard Aug 21 08:42:22 they're pretty much out of luck until they manage to use spring contact USB, like AV receptacle, which is mounted to case instead of PCB Aug 21 08:46:59 DocScrutinizer: "new"? Aug 21 08:48:18 well breaking dock connectors were common with pda's not so long ago Aug 21 08:53:11 jacekowski: really? i have palm V since ~2001 and it still perfectly works Aug 21 08:53:26 s/V/m500/ Aug 21 08:53:26 slonopotamus meant: jacekowski: really? i have palm m500 since ~2001 and it still perfectly works Aug 21 08:56:42 and what kind of connector does it have? Aug 21 08:57:44 nokia basically fucked up.. although if it's just popping off the connector and not hurting the traces, it *should* be a simple fix anyone with basic soldering skills could do Aug 21 08:58:24 ieatlint: it has a cradle Aug 21 08:59:49 ieatlint: http://the-gadgeteer.com/assets/m500-8.jpg Aug 21 09:00:13 i think there is something a tad funny that microusb was made because miniusb wasn't durable enough, and here it's proving unreliable Aug 21 09:00:14 ieatlint: it's just put on a cradle and touches pins Aug 21 09:00:37 slonopotamus: so not entirely like the old nokia connector... proprietary Aug 21 09:00:42 although offering more features Aug 21 09:01:00 ieatlint: those days everyone made own connectors Aug 21 09:01:31 miniusb is too narrow. microusb is too thin :) Aug 21 09:01:36 indeed, and that predated miniusb even :P Aug 21 09:01:37 and, miniusb *isnt* durable enough. microusb being more durable has nothing to do with the whole connector falling off because the way it's secured to the device is bad Aug 21 09:01:54 nid0: indeed Aug 21 09:02:08 i'm just saying that it's funny that the connector is failing (because of the way it was attached) Aug 21 09:02:49 bring back the days of nice straightforward jack charging ports with no surround to rip off tbh :( Aug 21 09:03:23 i disagree... the flaw is just how the connector is attached, microusb is awesome in general Aug 21 09:03:52 ieatlint: piece of plastic and metal can't be "awesome" :) Aug 21 09:03:57 i can buy generic cables or borrow one from a friend with an entirely different phone Aug 21 09:04:29 sure it can, you just haven't seen enough sex toys Aug 21 09:04:39 :D Aug 21 09:07:47 well, on people.openmoko.orh/joerg/n900 I found on close inspection that the 4 support posts holding the microUSB were not exactly what I'd call decent solder joints Aug 21 09:08:27 reflow problem I guess Aug 21 09:10:34 or maybe that component isn't reflowable and needs manual soldering, that often fails due to the underpaid untrained workers in china fabs Aug 21 09:14:19 will i get an instant replace with a broken red led, a broken usb port, two lighter spots on the screen, a broken internal battery, a mildly scratched screen and a kinda ruined chassis? Aug 21 09:16:30 kerio, wtf have you been doing to it!? Aug 21 09:16:53 wear and tear Aug 21 09:17:34 who, me? Aug 21 09:17:39 i did nothing! it was pre-broken Aug 21 09:17:45 totally nokia's fault Aug 21 09:18:11 kerio, and im the friggin pope! Aug 21 09:18:34 oh hi Your Holiness Aug 21 09:18:35 No, really, i am. Praise be to me Aug 21 09:18:35 sup Aug 21 09:18:41 :P Aug 21 09:19:30 I'm an ancient chinese emperor Aug 21 09:19:46 shut up, you're Xom Aug 21 09:19:48 don't lie Aug 21 09:22:10 ._. Aug 21 09:22:26 TermanaN900: internal battery, screen and usb connector are actually not my fault Aug 21 09:22:55 the red led was mia when i bought it Aug 21 09:23:58 wazd: you're coming to ireland? P Aug 21 09:27:57 Stskeeps: well, I hope :D Aug 21 09:28:33 Stskeeps: even if nokia wouldn't be kind enough - I have a place to stay there :P Aug 21 09:28:38 hehe Aug 21 09:28:46 the hotel rates are sure peppery Aug 21 09:28:50 if called discounted.. Aug 21 09:28:54 Stskeeps: yeah Aug 21 09:29:05 Stskeeps: 130 euros, like, omfg Aug 21 09:29:14 :D Aug 21 09:29:28 i thought the scottish were the cheapos Aug 21 09:29:28 not too far from Moscow rates :) Aug 21 09:30:01 but if you do show up, i think i owe you some drinks or whatever :P Aug 21 09:30:20 Stskeeps: hehe, I think I owe you :P Aug 21 09:30:34 Stskeeps: let's owe each other some beers :D Aug 21 09:30:41 excellent, we both get drunk Aug 21 09:30:42 ;) Aug 21 09:31:17 Stskeeps: isn't it the main point of the conference? :D Aug 21 09:31:41 that and networking Aug 21 09:31:41 :P Aug 21 09:33:06 Stskeeps: aaah, sure, networking :D Aug 21 09:33:13 networking a.k.a exchanging beers Aug 21 09:33:36 TermanaN900: +1 :D Aug 21 09:34:04 BTP - Beer Transfer Protocol Aug 21 09:34:17 Stskeeps: anyway, we'll try to make something cool with OMWeather for MeeGo :) Aug 21 09:34:29 kerio: Beer Exchange Server :P Aug 21 09:34:41 wazd: i sometimes wish i had a Mer theme for MeeGo, that wasn't tied to the meego trademark Aug 21 09:34:42 wazd: beerd Aug 21 09:35:37 Stskeeps: I'll try to make something asap :) Currently too much everything for 2 hands :) Aug 21 09:35:41 wazd: hehe Aug 21 09:35:41 * Jaffa 's looking forward to the conference now, since he won't be able to make Nokia World (Monday/Tuesday is a prospect in-depth architecture overview; and Wednesday has our Swedish client coming over for the day) Aug 21 09:35:59 I wonder weather i could get sponsored for a propsal to talk about the implementation of BTP with a BES backend on MeeGo Aug 21 09:36:01 :P Aug 21 09:36:10 wazd: and lightbeerd that only serves non-alcoholic beer Aug 21 09:36:17 wazd: you should propose a talk on artwork Aug 21 09:36:17 :P Aug 21 09:37:05 Stskeeps: I'm not sure if I'll be able to perform that much without alco-stimulation :) I'm really shy person IRL :D Aug 21 09:38:18 wazd: pft, we know you're the next steve jobs Aug 21 09:38:19 :P Aug 21 09:38:27 and being drunk in ireland while presenting is normal Aug 21 09:38:28 ;) Aug 21 09:38:39 Stskeeps: ah, then it's ok :D Aug 21 09:38:48 Stskeeps, wazd wears the same clothes everytime he presents? Aug 21 09:38:52 :P Aug 21 09:38:59 TermanaN900: ah, good point Aug 21 09:39:48 TermanaN900: last time I was presenting something, I actually was wearing turtleneck, jeans and glasses :D Aug 21 09:40:00 :D Aug 21 09:40:05 TermanaN900: I don't know how that happened :D Aug 21 09:43:28 i hope to use N9 oled screen as a white on black terminal much of the time, thus consuming little energy Aug 21 09:43:42 is it possible to compiletely disable auto software update check? Aug 21 09:43:59 surely Aug 21 09:44:50 Stskeeps: maybe your idea bout talk is not that bad actually :) Aug 21 09:45:09 wazd: i mean, you do have a lot of merit Aug 21 09:46:06 Stskeeps: well, merit means nothing when you have nothing to say :D Aug 21 09:46:15 you have art Aug 21 09:46:16 :P Aug 21 09:46:30 Stskeeps: :) Aug 21 09:46:50 Stskeeps: how long should it be? Aug 21 09:47:19 Preferred session duration (default is 30 minutes, but we'll entertain other requests where possible) Aug 21 09:47:23 or lightning talk Aug 21 09:48:29 Stskeeps: well, lightning is about 5 minutes, that's not enough :( And 30 minutes is kinds too much :D Aug 21 09:48:44 Stskeeps: kinda* Aug 21 09:50:32 could always do a double talk Aug 21 09:51:07 Stskeeps: цуддб Ш рфму 1 ьщку вфн ещ здфт Ш пгуыы Ж) Aug 21 09:51:10 fuck Aug 21 09:51:27 Well, I have one more day to plan I guess :) Aug 21 09:51:38 that was main thesis for my talk btw :D Aug 21 09:52:30 im not sure цуддб Ш рфму 1 ьщку вфн ещ здфт Ш пгуыы Ж) fuck - is a valid proposal Aug 21 09:52:35 :P Aug 21 09:52:46 TermanaN900: awww :( Aug 21 09:56:30 changing /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval doesn't work btw. Aug 21 09:57:42 pigeon: wfm Aug 21 09:58:23 it may have worked for the check interval, but everytime i reboot, it does the check again. Aug 21 09:59:54 Hi! Is there a way to dump Conversation logs? Aug 21 10:02:28 Nvm. I found it. Aug 21 11:05:39 is there any way to change the layout of the onscreen dialling pad in the phone app? i use a calculator a lot and can touchtype on a computer numpad, so the phone/ATM-style number layout is a little annoying for me Aug 21 11:16:23 neat idea BCMM Aug 21 11:16:29 Does the package manager in maemo keep data about repositories in MyDocs? Aug 21 11:16:52 http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/improving_the_maemo_5_cell_phone_experience/ Aug 21 11:17:33 because I backed up before formatting MyDocs.... but apparently scp didn't back up the dot-folders :\ Aug 21 11:17:44 and now I have no repos, and can't add repos Aug 21 11:18:56 delirus: No, HAM meta data is in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and another XML file somewhere (possibly under /home/user/.osso/application-manager IRC) Aug 21 11:19:05 heh Aug 21 11:19:05 http://www.knownokia.ca/2010/08/enhancingunlocking-your-n900-fm.html Aug 21 11:19:06 s/IRC/IIRC/ Aug 21 11:19:06 Jaffa meant: delirus: No, HAM meta data is in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and another XML file somewhere (possibly under /home/user/.osso/application-manager IIRC) Aug 21 11:19:19 Well, lucky for us there’s nothing to stop a good brain coupled with the power of IDA Pro from doing what one may please. Aug 21 11:19:29 why somebody assumes that i was using ida pro for that? Aug 21 11:20:23 after a re-partition, why would the package manager suddenly malfunction like this? I go to the dialog to add a repository, and the repository simply doesn't show up. Aug 21 11:20:33 Everything else is working 100% Aug 21 11:23:43 this might help: synaptic says "unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/) is anothoer process using it?" Aug 21 11:24:38 (the graphical package manager is closed btw) Aug 21 11:24:54 Anyone knows how I can check download statistics for each repository? Aug 21 11:29:05 nm... Aug 21 11:29:20 'app manager' is still broken, but I got synaptic working Aug 21 11:36:21 you can have only one package manager running Aug 21 11:37:59 I know.... Aug 21 11:38:08 even when only one was running, neither would work Aug 21 11:40:26 on a fresh reboot, app manager's repos are blank Aug 21 11:40:39 but synaptic seems healthy if I delete the lock file Aug 21 11:49:38 hi Aug 21 11:49:49 me again Aug 21 11:50:05 does anyone know why setxkbmap doesnt work in maemo ? -.- Aug 21 11:51:40 Hehe, now those "community affairs" are starting to look really rotten Aug 21 11:57:28 http://gizmodo.com/5583079/n8-gallery//gallery/1 Aug 21 11:57:53 RST38h, what do you mean Aug 21 11:58:07 lcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=793879#post793879 Aug 21 11:58:43 lcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60739 Aug 21 11:58:58 lcuk: + another thread by our friend Flandry on stricter rules for t.m.o Aug 21 11:59:05 pupnik: err - how can people be commenting about themegapixels of a 640*480 or so pic Aug 21 12:01:54 eheh Aug 21 12:02:54 http://admin.conversations.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/04062010253.jpg SpeedEvil but this is pretty nice Aug 21 12:06:42 Hello folks :) Aug 21 12:07:09 I really love the way the N900 does contacts; the ability to integrate IM accounts and telephone accounts is pure genius. Aug 21 12:07:54 However, the contacts list is really slow. Really, really slow. Aug 21 12:08:20 pupnik: unfortunately overcompressed Aug 21 12:08:46 I'm sure it'd be faster if I merged some of my contacts, I suspect I have a high degree of duplication. However, merging is also painfully glacial. Aug 21 12:08:49 pupnik, the n8 is a really nice device I will give you that! Aug 21 12:08:57 Is there a way to optimize either of the two? Aug 21 12:08:58 how is it for all the linux games you have Aug 21 12:09:16 can you do the same sort of conversions and ports as you spent so long doing? Aug 21 12:09:23 lol n8.. another symbian junk Aug 21 12:09:53 For example, a desktop-based application to deal with my contacts list would probably save me a bit of time. Aug 21 12:10:03 psycho_oreos, its actually looking really really nice Aug 21 12:10:17 but the symbian phone I am personally REALLY interested in is the X3-2 Aug 21 12:10:23 touch and talk is uber cool Aug 21 12:10:25 or some kind of clever "hey, this contact sure looks like that other contact, should I merge them?" app Aug 21 12:10:34 lcuk: But...mmm...why? Aug 21 12:10:35 lcuk, looking nice != the functionality that linux can offer Aug 21 12:10:36 and a novel nice simple usable upgrade to a normal phone Aug 21 12:10:51 RST38h, because my son has an X3 and he drooled when he saw it Aug 21 12:10:57 ahh Aug 21 12:11:28 my younger brother has x6 16gb, me jealous? not one bit Aug 21 12:11:35 and 15year olds liking the look of something is win in my book Aug 21 12:12:27 another thing that frustrates me is receiving a telephone call Aug 21 12:12:42 the device will be unresponsive for a significant amount of time Aug 21 12:13:10 especially if I turn it around (like when I take it out of my pocket) it will spend several agonizing seconds rendering the rotate back and forth Aug 21 12:13:38 sometimes it seems to randomly shift the accept/decline buttons as a part of this leading to my accidentally declining phone calls Aug 21 12:14:07 I'm guessing this ties into the contacts slowness? Aug 21 12:14:33 no toresbe different issue Aug 21 12:15:08 I love my N900 but it drives me up the farging wall sometimes. Aug 21 12:15:10 the phone call shifting is fixed afaik Aug 21 12:15:56 Goodie. Can I update to something that isn't so maddening yet? Aug 21 12:16:09 ok RST38h posted my own thoughts in those ranting threads Aug 21 12:16:41 Oh, and the inability to play the first few seconds of an MP3 also sucks. When going from gPodder and into Media Player the thing will still be swamped enough that it'll fail to play the MP3. Aug 21 12:17:00 I'll just hear stuttering the first 10-15 seconds. Aug 21 12:17:16 Even the battery warning stutters. Aug 21 12:17:32 probably some process is hogging up cpu process Aug 21 12:17:34 Wow, that turned into a rant pretty fast. Aug 21 12:17:46 psycho_oreos, linux can look good by the way Aug 21 12:17:55 Sorry. Aug 21 12:18:13 * lcuk doesn't mind rants Aug 21 12:18:25 i prefer action ontop of them Aug 21 12:18:44 so follow up and talk with thp about gpodder and whether hes noticed things Aug 21 12:18:51 lcuk, I didn't mean linux has to look good to beat symbian, I would have ditched my n900 for n8 had my n95 done the things I want it to do and not to give me crap Aug 21 12:19:12 thp: Thanks for writing gPodder. It's excellent. Aug 21 12:19:16 since he wrote it and uses it he might have some great ideas and insight into the actual issue that can be passed onto devs to help cure Aug 21 12:19:22 I just get the feeling that someone should be doing some serious profiling of the whole environment. Aug 21 12:19:47 serious profiling requires serious skill to see the results and be able to pick out and act on them Aug 21 12:19:53 yup. Aug 21 12:20:09 I mean, iPhone runs on the same architecture. And that's really snappy. When I'm fiddling with maemo I kind of get that feeling that I'm on a 486 running Windows 95. Aug 21 12:20:20 and I know some extremely decent developers have been looking at many areas Aug 21 12:20:41 iphone runs on a different kernel and lacks functionality where n900 has with a proper full blown linux Aug 21 12:20:41 toresbe, thats because the n900 is a full complete x11 stack and does things differently Aug 21 12:21:10 but it's still doing the same things, in roughly the same environment. Aug 21 12:21:23 iphone ui is a completely different much shorter subsystem with none of the complexity Aug 21 12:21:38 toresbe, the n900 can do those things too Aug 21 12:22:40 iOS _is_ a full Unix kernel. OK, it takes some shortcuts in the UI stack perhaps, i don't know. Still shouldn't affect performance inordinately. Aug 21 12:22:53 kernel != rendering layer Aug 21 12:23:11 sure, but the sluggishness that I am experiencing isn't due to graphics. Aug 21 12:23:23 graphics pipeline has a lot to do with it Aug 21 12:23:31 and the toolkit etc Aug 21 12:23:50 if you have to pass the data for a single line on a list through many layers Aug 21 12:23:59 it is probably partially due to the fancy look and feel with all those compiz like affects Aug 21 12:24:04 its not going to be as fluid as if it just draws it onto the surface directly Aug 21 12:24:09 I just did a test, and measured 7 seconds from opening the camera lid of an idle phone to the camera appearing. Aug 21 12:24:23 1 second here Aug 21 12:24:40 after picking up my phone after seeing your comment Aug 21 12:24:41 Maybe I should reflash, then... Aug 21 12:24:47 something is eating lots of cpu on your device Aug 21 12:24:51 potentially Aug 21 12:24:54 nah, the CPU is idle. Aug 21 12:24:56 back up first Aug 21 12:25:05 which firmware version are you running? Aug 21 12:25:31 me? Aug 21 12:25:40 RAM is another story... Aug 21 12:25:42 yeah both :) it took me 3 seconds Aug 21 12:25:47 I have pr1.2 on one device Aug 21 12:25:51 232784K used, 12156K free Aug 21 12:25:51 and not pr1.2 on the other Aug 21 12:26:05 im at about 2-3 seconds from opening lens cover to camera image showing Aug 21 12:26:21 the one on pr1.2 has the one second delay from opening lens cover to camera? Aug 21 12:26:27 try closing and reopening Aug 21 12:26:30 is it faster? Aug 21 12:26:40 lcuk: much, around two seconds Aug 21 12:26:43 psycho_oreos, they both do on mine Aug 21 12:26:48 yeah second time goes much quicker, always has Aug 21 12:26:55 one second less, still two seconds Aug 21 12:27:13 toresbe, how long has your n900 been on for? Aug 21 12:27:20 prolly about a second when repeating it for me Aug 21 12:27:36 psycho_oreos: I reset it occasionally. Aug 21 12:27:45 current uptime is 2 days Aug 21 12:28:09 ok i just videod it Aug 21 12:28:18 hold on will upload Aug 21 12:28:34 toresbe, by that time I would have expected some minor lags to occur, when it runs for 4 days uptime, even when trying to stop the alarm will take about 5 seconds.. that's when I reboot the device Aug 21 12:28:50 .... Aug 21 12:29:02 what are you doing to your device that kills it in 4 days? Aug 21 12:29:05 hum ... Aug 21 12:29:13 sigh Aug 21 12:29:13 you have some bad things installed on it Aug 21 12:29:19 alarms and widgets? :) Aug 21 12:29:33 i'm seriously considering changing over to android by now Aug 21 12:29:35 it s took less than 1s on my n900 to open camera soft Aug 21 12:29:36 this is just maddening Aug 21 12:29:43 toresbe, lol good luck Aug 21 12:29:52 (not on the n900, but on a different phone) Aug 21 12:29:56 I'll really miss the KB though. Aug 21 12:30:03 toresbe, enjoy the restricted freedom, similarly to having iphone Aug 21 12:30:04 good luck with android Aug 21 12:30:04 Physically the N900 is a fantastic phone. Aug 21 12:30:17 psycho_oreos: In what regard? Aug 21 12:30:21 toresbe, software is amazing too ! Aug 21 12:30:35 Khertan: No, it's shit, that's the problem Aug 21 12:30:41 toresbe, LOL Aug 21 12:30:51 it s shit ... of course ... yeah Aug 21 12:30:56 end of discussion Aug 21 12:31:03 psycho_oreos, toresbe : http://liqbase.net/20100821_004.mp4 Aug 21 12:31:11 toresbe, no dual/multi booting, no root access without jailbreaking (like iphone) lack of raw level support on hardware.. most of the stuff runs ontop of java Aug 21 12:31:30 go to bought an android phone and see you later in one month Aug 21 12:31:31 haha Aug 21 12:31:44 slloooowwww host lcuk or just me? Aug 21 12:32:04 psycho_oreos: well, I don't want two bad OSes, I want one good one. The restrictions are a bummer but I am actually willing to give a little of that freedom away in order to have a working telephone... Aug 21 12:32:13 nid0, never noticed it before Aug 21 12:32:16 I think there's more than one users getting the file :) I'm getting around 60K Aug 21 12:32:16 its godaddy stuff Aug 21 12:32:18 psycho_oreos, and worse ... no python on iphone :) not really well supported on android :) Aug 21 12:32:23 must just be you Aug 21 12:32:37 took my machine like 40 seconds to buffer the video :( Aug 21 12:32:42 * lcuk just downloaded it from my side quickly Aug 21 12:32:50 different machine Aug 21 12:33:06 you guys have serious IT issues Aug 21 12:33:26 nah, im happy just blaming godaddy :) Aug 21 12:33:29 huum ... godaddy isn't really a good host depending where you live ... :) Aug 21 12:33:47 toresbe, its a small sacrifice but *shrugs* do whatever you must, n900 wasn't meant to be a perfect phone, afterall its the very first NIT to feature phone capability and the software aspects are kinda half done Aug 21 12:34:00 I tried to show clearly how I am opening the slider Aug 21 12:34:06 so my finger starts in view Aug 21 12:34:13 and you can see, its nowhere near 7 seconds Aug 21 12:34:35 Khertan, heh I wouldn't want to ever consider iphone, considering how the latest pdf exploit patch is only fixed in iOS4 but would still cause grief for iphone 3g owners Aug 21 12:34:36 *I* would be shouting if it was Aug 21 12:34:36 lcuk, same as you less than one seconds with no apps running :) Aug 21 12:34:48 the n810 used to have a ~10second wait for front camer Aug 21 12:34:50 psycho_oreos: I don't require a perfect phone, I'd just like an acceptable one; currently my N900 isn't that way... Aug 21 12:35:15 lcuk, take more than 1 min with 40 search running with khweeteur ... :) Aug 21 12:35:20 toresbe, as you say, try a clear out and reflash Aug 21 12:35:20 lcuk, yeah that's a very fast response, I guess I'll need to disable a few things.. lol I've been told to not leave r&d mode on Aug 21 12:35:24 has the obvious suggestion of reflashing and bloating it down a bit less after doing so been mentioned yet? Aug 21 12:35:42 psycho_oreos, why are you running r&d mode out of interest? Aug 21 12:36:01 nid0, yes - toresbe said it himself Aug 21 12:36:09 I am just showing the video to clarify Aug 21 12:36:16 lcuk: I believe you :) Aug 21 12:36:36 toresbe, well mine is reasonably acceptable, sure it lacks features and what not but at least in hardware-wise and openness its by far lot better than its competitors, especially when it comes to having the advantage of a full blown linux running on it Aug 21 12:36:40 I used to overwhelm my windows machine Aug 21 12:36:46 i wonder what purging hildon-desktop and rebooting would do Aug 21 12:36:49 I used to have to shut down EVERYTHING just to play mp3s Aug 21 12:36:54 lcuk, for things you may laugh at :) I like the verbose bootup message and the keyboard led flashing Aug 21 12:36:58 MohammadAG51, might do a lot Aug 21 12:37:01 nid0: it really shouldn't be bloated as it is though, I don't use apps all that much... Aug 21 12:37:12 psycho_oreos, I don't laugh, it was a serious question Aug 21 12:37:23 and I agree :) Aug 21 12:37:45 R&D mode, what does that do? Aug 21 12:37:48 the keyboard lights are something MohammadAG51 likes too, but for different reasons Aug 21 12:37:52 nothing Aug 21 12:37:52 lcuk, well yeah those were the things I liked to have enabled on normal mode (non r&d), I was told those were possible but I haven't looked into it Aug 21 12:37:55 it doesnt exist Aug 21 12:38:02 if you don't know, dont do it Aug 21 12:38:05 lol lcuk Aug 21 12:38:26 psycho_oreos, so you have the visible bootlogging on startup? Aug 21 12:38:30 r&d are only for noble NIT fans ;) Aug 21 12:38:37 cos thats not an r&d thing is it? Aug 21 12:38:47 psycho_oreos, no it shouldnt be for fans at all Aug 21 12:38:51 lcuk: I googled it and I will infact enable it. :) Aug 21 12:38:57 lcuk, yeah the green words appearing all over Nokia screen with the little tool thing in the middle Aug 21 12:39:05 it should be for people who have skills to fix problems themselves and not whinge in public channels Aug 21 12:39:09 you need a framebuffer kernel to see kernel messages Aug 21 12:39:20 :P Aug 21 12:39:32 psycho_oreos, you can remove the green text by patching /etc/preinit Aug 21 12:39:39 lcuk: Heh. Fair enough. But I did _start_ off being reasonable. ;) Aug 21 12:39:44 err Aug 21 12:39:47 of course toresbe Aug 21 12:39:49 /sbin/preinit Aug 21 12:39:52 installing multiboot does that Aug 21 12:39:59 and I really hope we get the points you did mention cured Aug 21 12:40:09 it just really frustrates me because I _want_ to love my phone. Aug 21 12:40:12 because you are not the only one mentioning them Aug 21 12:40:19 * lcuk nods Aug 21 12:40:40 MohammadAG51, hmm interesting, I'm gonna have a look at how to enable framebuffer (I'm sure titan's power kernel has fb but I could be wrong) and enable all the fancy features I want from r&d so that I can disable r&d Aug 21 12:40:50 it doesn't Aug 21 12:40:58 bum :/ Aug 21 12:41:04 well Aug 21 12:41:16 do you want a power40 framebuffer kernel? Aug 21 12:41:34 I don't know what a power40 is :/ Aug 21 12:41:42 lol latest version Aug 21 12:41:49 of kernel-power Aug 21 12:42:04 titan's power kernel? o.O that should be in the repos shouldn't it? :) Aug 21 12:42:10 under extras-testing Aug 21 12:42:14 not the framebuffer one Aug 21 12:42:18 toresbe, have a look at what additional bloat you can remove Aug 21 12:42:30 and see if you can clean up your system in coming days without reflashing Aug 21 12:42:32 hmm damn so it must be your own version heh :) Aug 21 12:42:43 just like anything else, keeping it full to the brim with everything can overload it Aug 21 12:42:48 brb Aug 21 12:42:59 actually, i need it and i cba to do it, but if someone else would use i'll get off my arse and do it Aug 21 12:44:21 I'm personally am a bit conservative on testing lol, had I got enough money to acquire another n900 I'd love to trial it out Aug 21 12:46:28 lol flashing a kernel doesn't do anything bad Aug 21 12:46:37 well.. assuming the kernel works Aug 21 12:46:42 it doesn't do anything good either Aug 21 12:47:06 ssh: connect to host 192.168.1.104 port 22: Connection refused Aug 21 12:47:09 grrr Aug 21 12:47:30 psycho_oreos: most of the talk of "bricking" n900s refers to the sort of not-really-bricking that you can fix by reflashing from a PC Aug 21 12:47:31 that is exactly what I worry :) my n900 is on contract and I'm treating it as a main phone, if it gets constantly bricked, etc I would have missed lots of phone calls and probably end up in strife :) Aug 21 12:47:49 "constantly bricked" = huge misnomer Aug 21 12:47:57 you can by definition only brick a phone once Aug 21 12:49:02 there's bricking and there's bricking Aug 21 12:49:12 BCMM, well yeah you can sort of unbrick it if you knew how but otherwise you need to re-setup various things again according to what to the ways and things you want.. yes I'm against the hacking of my own n900 for the time being I'm afraid.. I just don't want to spend too many countless hours trying to set everything right Aug 21 12:50:02 wasn't there two ways of unbricking? one using PC and if its really bad, you go through the serial terminal or something? Aug 21 12:50:04 isn't that what the backup's for? Aug 21 12:50:14 Well Aug 21 12:50:23 if you erase the first and second bootloader Aug 21 12:50:33 well the backups are far and large in between, it doesn't save all the debs you have installed for example Aug 21 12:50:38 theoritically, you should be able to cold flash Aug 21 12:50:58 psycho_oreos, it installs the list of them Aug 21 12:51:00 you'll need to specify the USB bus manually though Aug 21 12:51:02 and the list of repositories Aug 21 12:51:11 for anything that was installed via repos at least Aug 21 12:51:13 and then bulk reinstalls them Aug 21 12:51:24 any debs installed manually you'd need to save and re-do manually though Aug 21 12:51:33 but there shouldnt exactly be a huge list of them Aug 21 12:51:33 so if you installed from certified repositories - ie maemo.org, you can reinstall Aug 21 12:51:46 lcuk, o.O didn't knew about bulk reinstalling, I thought those would also take up lots of downloads as well Aug 21 12:52:02 they do, they all get redownloaded Aug 21 12:52:10 the system just does them all at once concurrently Aug 21 12:52:11 and then there's stuff from ovi for example Aug 21 12:52:11 downloads app, installs it, downloads next one and installs it etc Aug 21 12:52:27 though tbh, I would say downloading all then installing would be better Aug 21 12:52:38 freeware from ovi will get reinstalled automatically afaik Aug 21 12:52:40 which is why i use apt-get Aug 21 12:52:51 its just paid stuff you need to manually redownload from "my stuff" Aug 21 12:53:27 heh I haven't looked into that, I thought it would only install the list and the repos but wouldn't go through and get all the apps you previously had.. even then it still needs to grab datas from certified repos and what not.. in my case I haven't gone through all the certified repos Aug 21 12:54:01 itll redownload apps installed from repos regardless of the repo it's in Aug 21 12:54:17 assuming the repo is enabled on the device at the time you generate the backup Aug 21 12:54:40 hmm Aug 21 12:55:06 and the custom user hacks? like various edited/personalised conf files? :D Aug 21 12:55:34 psycho_oreos, :) Aug 21 12:55:40 some will get retained, some wont Aug 21 12:55:51 nope, hence my dislike for users doing mystical runes and incantations in the command line Aug 21 12:55:57 once a dev finds a reliable happy hack Aug 21 12:56:01 it should be packaged and pushed Aug 21 12:56:06 so that its reproducable Aug 21 12:56:06 the backup will take backups of various config files, if your manual changes happen to be in those files youll get them backed up, if not you wont Aug 21 12:56:40 doing mystical runes and incantations? lol Aug 21 12:56:55 psycho_oreos, the command line is something ancient linux gods use Aug 21 12:57:05 my mum would never know what to do with it Aug 21 12:57:06 manually-written transition effects are not saved for example, but afaik custom led patterns are Aug 21 12:57:08 nid0, hmm yeah looks like I'll still need to back them up by hand Aug 21 12:57:20 or package them for reproduction :P Aug 21 12:57:40 * SpeedEvil looks at his package for reproduction, then puts on underpants. Aug 21 12:57:49 :D Aug 21 12:57:51 lcuk, lol wth, I spend a fair amount of time in linux cli :D I even have a shortcut on my `home' just to have direct access Aug 21 12:58:02 psycho_oreos, sure you do Aug 21 12:58:22 but don't you curse after you reinstall? Aug 21 12:58:23 lcuk: packaging is annoying for some. Aug 21 12:58:32 its annoying for all Aug 21 12:58:39 lcuk, *shrugs* I've edited the conky.conf file, edited the mmc-mount as well Aug 21 12:58:40 * lcuk was doing some packaging this last week Aug 21 12:58:41 lcuk: For example - I have slackware installed on my laptop. It just works. I don't want to fuck with it. Aug 21 12:59:02 lcuk: How can I easily package srtuff on this - I haven't found a way. Aug 21 12:59:03 psycho_oreos, yes so after you reinstall you have to dig and find out what you did Aug 21 12:59:08 and hope you do it right afterwards Aug 21 12:59:23 SpeedEvil, a package file is fairly simple Aug 21 12:59:56 lcuk, well I was cursing because I wanted to try this other menu thingy instead of catorise which didn't work well and catorise fails to function.. even when I tried restoring the backup it restored the broken functionality of catorise which left me no choice but to manually re-do the whole setup again Aug 21 13:00:02 thats the debian folder for maemo-optify-boottime Aug 21 13:00:04 http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/trees/master/debian Aug 21 13:00:10 its got a few very simple files in it Aug 21 13:00:12 Sure - I haven't found any document that would explain how - say - I drop a 500 byte script in /usr/local/bin - make it depend on zenity - and insrtall it. Aug 21 13:00:17 and copies scripts and does postinst stuff etc Aug 21 13:00:21 hmm Aug 21 13:00:25 just take that and modify a bit Aug 21 13:00:38 its not rocket science Aug 21 13:00:57 Interesting. Aug 21 13:01:06 How do I then get that to the autobuilder? Aug 21 13:01:10 and into testing? Aug 21 13:01:20 you request rights from maemo.org Aug 21 13:01:24 hold on Aug 21 13:01:28 ill dig the page Aug 21 13:01:44 thanks. Aug 21 13:01:47 http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Aug 21 13:02:18 well Aug 21 13:02:28 flauta's scratchbox is now dead :( Aug 21 13:03:27 So - request ssh key - prepare above files, and scp them? Aug 21 13:03:51 dput Aug 21 13:03:54 and then autobuilder kicks in when it notrices the dsc? Aug 21 13:04:03 yep Aug 21 13:04:07 I don't have dput Aug 21 13:04:12 install it Aug 21 13:04:20 SpeedEvil, you can use the web interface Aug 21 13:04:51 you don't need to add your ssh keys for that Aug 21 13:04:58 oh - right Aug 21 13:05:11 I don't think there is a slackware package for dput Aug 21 13:05:34 this doesn't look impossible - thanks! Aug 21 13:06:05 :) np Aug 21 13:22:34 Code in Python, use pypackager ... use webinterface ;) Aug 21 13:22:46 or do your own repository ;) Aug 21 13:22:52 it s fast and easy Aug 21 13:24:36 android is a phone platform Aug 21 13:24:44 maemo is a tablet platform Aug 21 13:24:49 meego is a piece of crap Aug 21 13:25:13 the openness of meego isn't crap, the use of rpm in it... Aug 21 13:26:08 meego wants to do everything Aug 21 13:26:14 it *will* fail Aug 21 13:28:26 lol the use of rpm is a sign of fail imo :) Aug 21 13:28:58 I find it funny that meego uses the rpm which doesn't have all the fancy bits and pieces that deb has Aug 21 13:29:18 meego ... in french look like same as megot (cigarrete butt) Aug 21 13:29:38 psycho_oreos, in fact rpm as more fancy ... and more annoying things Aug 21 13:30:09 psycho_oreos, the main problem of rpm is the lack of control Aug 21 13:30:23 but this mainly depends in fact in the tool used to manage this rpm Aug 21 13:31:41 Khertan, to me its rpm lacking maturity, deb has got a proper frontend and some nice tools to work at various levels, rpm doesn't, its frontend came from yellow dog linux and it doesn't have a tool to mirror the repos except to use rsync which in meego's repo doesn't have rsync enabled Aug 21 13:33:34 :) Aug 21 13:34:28 and ... i ve'nt any motivation to enable the rpm package creation in pypackager Aug 21 13:34:28 toresbe: you're welcome :) Aug 21 13:34:57 psycho_oreos, but at least ... there is a bdist_rpm in python setup tool :) Aug 21 13:35:12 Khertan, do you still have your repos open from previous work on different OSes? Aug 21 13:35:28 ie, in a couple of years if people use your repository will the apps still work? Aug 21 13:35:42 this is one of the key things that maemo.org addresses Aug 21 13:37:27 lcuk, my previous repo isn't open anymore as before to close them X-Fade said me that maemo repository will be the answer :)= Aug 21 13:37:50 I meant for your work on palm etc Aug 21 13:38:04 lcuk, for palm there isn't any repository Aug 21 13:38:04 where did those apps go? Aug 21 13:38:13 but there are still here Aug 21 13:38:41 you are dedicated then! Aug 21 13:38:51 all too often the links become stale Aug 21 13:39:03 yep i know Aug 21 13:39:03 and good solid apps for a platform drain away Aug 21 13:39:06 uhhhh, meego is using rpm for it's packages? Ö.ö Aug 21 13:39:06 and i hate that :) Aug 21 13:39:24 for example kmeteo is still here ;) Aug 21 13:39:28 heh cool Aug 21 13:39:30 on my webpage Aug 21 13:39:50 all chinook and diablo apps are still in maemo repository Aug 21 13:40:07 and klauncher ... is still available somewhere ... :) Aug 21 13:40:14 mikki-kun, yes Aug 21 13:40:16 cool, and I know I am preaching to the choir with you :) Aug 21 13:40:34 gah my ear feels funky Aug 21 13:40:41 ou my... that is.... Aug 21 13:41:05 ...perfectly fine. Aug 21 13:41:34 lcuk, you make me think that i forgot to update some old apps on my new web site Aug 21 13:41:35 thx Aug 21 13:41:39 Khertan && lcuk for chinook, are you guys able to syn source repos off maemo.org repo fine? Aug 21 13:42:02 s/syn/sync/ Aug 21 13:42:03 psycho_oreos meant: Khertan && lcuk for chinook, are you guys able to sync source repos off maemo.org repo fine? Aug 21 13:42:23 what did you mean by sync ? Aug 21 13:42:38 well, i've heard from a couple of people rpm being the worst of them all Aug 21 13:42:58 yeah, by people who are most familiar with debs Aug 21 13:43:15 rpm vs deb is as old as vi vs emacs Aug 21 13:43:19 and just as pointless Aug 21 13:43:26 Khertan, for example if you were to create a scratchbox env for chinook, when it comes to building stuff from chinook repo under maemo.org do you guys get errors with something like Sources.tgz during compression? Aug 21 13:43:50 it s more a war or frontend tools and packaging policies than a real difference in the format Aug 21 13:44:25 psycho_oreos, didn't know ... i didn't use scratchbox :) Aug 21 13:44:37 for example, there's no apt-mirror equivalent for rpm repo Aug 21 13:45:02 Khertan, hmm bum :/ can't mirror the Sources.tgz from chinook part for some reason lol Aug 21 13:45:32 Hi Aug 21 13:46:01 and rpm's frontend is yum, came from yellow dog linux, runs on python as opposed to deb's frontend being apt-get/aptitude which are made from C Aug 21 13:46:35 and ? c isn't superiors to python ... Aug 21 13:46:52 used language isn't a markup of quality Aug 21 13:46:56 it is Aug 21 13:47:00 :P Aug 21 13:47:03 lol lcuk Aug 21 13:47:07 most of python is written in c :P Aug 21 13:47:09 C is a lower language compared to Python :) Aug 21 13:47:20 irrelevant Aug 21 13:47:27 or rather, without c, python would be slower than a dead slug Aug 21 13:47:34 psycho_oreos: wrong python is an interpreter and c is a compiler Aug 21 13:47:43 as it happens, its about the same speed as a slug Aug 21 13:47:52 psycho_oreos: you can't compate dogs with cats Aug 21 13:47:55 lcuk, hum ... without python you ll not use pygtkeditor to code in c on your maemo device :) Aug 21 13:47:56 python excells in binding Aug 21 13:47:58 compare Aug 21 13:48:09 Khertan, without c, you wouldnt have pygtkeditor Aug 21 13:48:16 johnsq, you're wrong there, both Python and C are programming languages, but Python needs an interpreter, C requires a compiler Aug 21 13:48:18 cos that component is c isn't it? Aug 21 13:48:41 in the 2.x.x it s c ... in 3.x.x it s full python :) Aug 21 13:48:47 oooh Aug 21 13:49:07 gtksourceview sucks with the maemo gtk style Aug 21 13:49:09 python can be compiled too, if you want... cython FTW :) Aug 21 13:49:24 psycho_oreos: not correct, there is no strict border, but python is designed to be interpreted and c is designed to be compiled. Aug 21 13:49:26 lcuk, but khteditor rely on QSyntaxHilighter Aug 21 13:49:39 ahh, so you now use c++ :P Aug 21 13:49:48 still not all python really ;) Aug 21 13:49:51 and yet there's has been _no_ answer for apt-mirror's equivalent to rpm Aug 21 13:50:00 indirectly as i use it from python ;) Aug 21 13:50:14 so i ll said 50%/50% Aug 21 13:50:23 johnsq, still it defines that both are programming languages and that C is still a lower level language compared to Python Aug 21 13:50:24 python excells in binding Aug 21 13:50:32 psycho_oreos, wget :) Aug 21 13:50:42 its a glue language, like arexx and vbs Aug 21 13:50:55 OUCH !!! DO NOT COMPARE TO VBS !!! Aug 21 13:50:56 python is a multipurpose language Aug 21 13:50:59 psycho_oreos: no. from my side python is lower level. Aug 21 13:51:05 python is the answer ! Aug 21 13:51:11 Khertan, vbs is one of the high points of microsoft strategy Aug 21 13:51:12 #import antigravity Aug 21 13:51:17 Khertan, more like wget with some nasty hacks and hoping it'll work.. whereas normally a RHCE certified person would say stuff like rsync.. but alas rsync isn't available on meego repos Aug 21 13:51:18 python is a very high level language that lets you drop to very low level Aug 21 13:51:24 Khertan: #import is a comment ._. Aug 21 13:51:26 if you underestimate it you missed a serious trick Aug 21 13:51:29 lcuk, yep the one that enable so many virus in the os Aug 21 13:51:46 any language can be abused Aug 21 13:51:56 it was open and extensible Aug 21 13:52:03 the issue was how it was started Aug 21 13:52:06 lcuk, yep but the problem of vbs isn't the language ... but the ms implementation Aug 21 13:52:11 ie, allowing running ANY code in an email Aug 21 13:52:15 johnsq, I still can't see how Python would be a lower level language than C :) if that were the case, where's the examples of drivers and kernel of OS being made in Python? :) Aug 21 13:52:21 it doesnt matter the language in that respect Aug 21 13:52:37 no Khertan its nothing to do with vbs itself Aug 21 13:52:46 lcuk, not really ... as vbs ... mean microsoft implementation :) Aug 21 13:52:47 psycho_oreos: there's a os with a python kernel module for a fs, iirc Aug 21 13:52:50 or the implementation directly Aug 21 13:52:59 psycho_oreos: you can't compare them, that is my point. Aug 21 13:53:19 vbscript is ugly Aug 21 13:53:25 python *complements* well written tools and libraries Aug 21 13:53:49 johnsq, I wasn't comparing them on the programming side I'm comparing them in literal usages for frontend package management systems.. in which the cases were rpm vs deb Aug 21 13:53:57 vbs is a crappy scripting language imo Aug 21 13:54:06 lcuk, python is the answer ... c/c++ is the other when you need performances Aug 21 13:54:08 kerio, still not a full blown OS that would run straight from the machine code no? :D Aug 21 13:54:10 kerio, read scrollback and dont just jump in Aug 21 13:54:21 * kerio jumps out Aug 21 13:54:21 Khertan, nahh python isn't "the" answer Aug 21 13:54:25 its a pathway Aug 21 13:54:26 psycho_oreos: yes and python didn't belong in the runtime system Aug 21 13:55:04 * kerio jumps back in after confirming that he *has* read the scrollback Aug 21 13:55:47 python is a kickass programming language for fast development and anything that doesn't require a lot of numbercrunching Aug 21 13:55:48 * lcuk slaps kerio Aug 21 13:55:48 johnsq, no I never said they were (or rather, as I'm getting confused about some programming jargons) but I have yet to see any low level benefits of Python vs C Aug 21 13:55:59 and if something requires it, you can just write that tiny portion in c Aug 21 13:56:04 psycho_oreos, strings Aug 21 13:56:10 are a pain in the backend in c Aug 21 13:56:21 * lcuk adores printf though Aug 21 13:56:21 py3k strings are pure unicode :3 Aug 21 13:56:37 lcuk: str.format is incredibly powerful Aug 21 13:56:55 * lcuk writes in many languages Aug 21 13:57:00 I know for example C can also incorporate ASM language Aug 21 13:57:09 and I still long for vb syntax sometimes Aug 21 13:57:12 psycho_oreos: and python can also incorporate C Aug 21 13:57:17 psycho_oreos: for package management your are config and dependencies parseing, there has python advantage, but you could use a small lib and do it in c Aug 21 13:57:20 so yeah :D Aug 21 13:57:31 if mystring like "some*thing" then Aug 21 13:58:05 lcuk: ew, blobs Aug 21 13:58:11 johnsq, that's if somebody did write yum in C for example :) Aug 21 13:58:14 give me true regexps if you really must Aug 21 13:58:29 i find it amusing that github identified liqbase-playground as being written in visual basic Aug 21 13:58:30 kerio, but what about python incorporating ASM? :) Aug 21 13:58:37 psycho_oreos: incorporate a c module with asm? Aug 21 13:58:47 i thought that was the implied conclusion Aug 21 13:58:48 because I happen to have some vb code in it Aug 21 13:58:58 psycho_oreos: the problem is, when the package manager uses python code in the packages. Aug 21 13:59:01 http://norvig.com/python-iaq.html Aug 21 13:59:03 funny Aug 21 13:59:48 but apparently he didn't know how to do a singleton in python Aug 21 13:59:52 kerio, probably not that that I've looked deeply into it.. funny how we've turned from debating about package management systems to bickering over programming languages Aug 21 14:00:34 not really a bad idea ... as a singleton is worse than a global in fact :) Aug 21 14:00:35 http://khertan.net/articles/gobject_idle_add_singleton Aug 21 14:00:37 ;) Aug 21 14:00:37 I hope you've learned your lesson as to how futile and pointless arguments about packaging methods is! Aug 21 14:00:55 I hope you've learned your lesson as to how futile and pointless arguments about * methods is! Aug 21 14:01:16 basically Aug 21 14:01:40 and arguments over text editorsd Aug 21 14:02:09 huh, hold on Aug 21 14:02:12 emacs ftw Aug 21 14:02:13 and to close the debate ... a tutorial on how to package an apps for maemo : http://khertan.net/articles/maemo/pypackager_howto Aug 21 14:02:21 get out. Aug 21 14:02:27 lol Aug 21 14:02:39 KhtEditor FTW Aug 21 14:02:45 anyway, python can do everything Aug 21 14:02:46 Khertan, how does that close the debate Aug 21 14:02:47 'nuff said Aug 21 14:02:54 lcuk, i don t know :) Aug 21 14:02:59 anyway, python can do everything [slowly] Aug 21 14:03:20 lcuk, i hope you click on the link read the text and forgot to come back to #maemo Aug 21 14:03:28 it s one way :) Aug 21 14:03:49 lcuk, c is really fast ... to segfault ! Aug 21 14:04:01 lcuk: adding cpu is usually cheaper than making better code :) Aug 21 14:04:13 PEBKAC Aug 21 14:04:15 and of course, the small part that actually require performance can be rewritten in C as needed Aug 21 14:04:22 blosy Aug 21 14:04:25 bloat* Aug 21 14:04:27 python is slow if you like a spain cow ! Aug 21 14:04:28 *requires Aug 21 14:04:32 python is slow if you code like a spain cow ! Aug 21 14:05:05 khertan I tried to use python to do a particle rendering system with gravity and stuff Aug 21 14:05:11 and ? Aug 21 14:05:16 lcuk: number crunching Aug 21 14:05:18 and beyond 20 or so it got so uncontrolably slow :( Aug 21 14:05:20 yeah Aug 21 14:05:25 hey guys Aug 21 14:05:28 kerio: entirely depends ... eg adding more cpu == making device 2x heavier because it needs a much fatter battery and now active cooling :) Aug 21 14:05:30 morning Venemo Aug 21 14:05:42 lol ... with sin, tan and cos everywhere ? Aug 21 14:05:50 also if you make 20,000,000 of a device Aug 21 14:06:01 trigonometry everywhere in this bitch Aug 21 14:06:14 use precalc table Aug 21 14:06:14 lcuk: morning? Aug 21 14:06:15 maths wins Aug 21 14:06:22 lcuk: what's the time there? :) Aug 21 14:06:22 ugt Aug 21 14:06:27 the extra "$3/device" (or whatevrr) to get the speed boost adds up to a phenominally large cost where improving the software actually is a lot cheaper Aug 21 14:06:31 look at vectormine ... Aug 21 14:06:35 raster, hiya dude Aug 21 14:06:35 source code Aug 21 14:06:38 how are you goin Aug 21 14:07:01 the embedded world thanks to its severe limits and often massive volume production has a different range of economics there Aug 21 14:07:02 :) Aug 21 14:07:08 lcuk: not too bad :) Aug 21 14:07:15 raster, got something to show you, can you work out how its done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM Aug 21 14:07:55 lcuk: thats kinda cool Aug 21 14:08:04 if software bloat and code optimizations were taken seriously we would have devices that work for much longer Aug 21 14:08:16 raster, it works nicely as a massive picture viewer Aug 21 14:08:17 we would Aug 21 14:08:29 a set of 9 devices can show their own part of the same ui Aug 21 14:08:33 lcuk: agreed about software bloat Aug 21 14:08:49 the prooblem is a human one Aug 21 14:08:56 95% of the software industry is incompetent Aug 21 14:09:13 raster: *lol* Aug 21 14:09:18 ie - they lack even the most basic understanding of what they do and thus are simply incapable of optimising something Aug 21 14:09:43 thank god the % still exist and software is cheap to re-produce :) Aug 21 14:09:45 95% of humans are incompetent Aug 21 14:09:50 err the 5% still exist Aug 21 14:10:21 thank god compilers don't allow most typos through ;) Aug 21 14:10:24 kerio: probably pretty true - but i cant really comment on that as i havent directly tried to evaluate them :) Aug 21 14:10:30 kerio: what do you think, how many percent of the average people know what a browser is? Aug 21 14:10:35 lcuk: indeed Aug 21 14:11:52 kerio: with this in mind, that 95% could be an understatement Aug 21 14:11:55 kerio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MwTvtyrUQ Aug 21 14:12:21 Venemo: hmm... 99.99999%? Aug 21 14:12:39 kerio: watch the video Aug 21 14:12:59 well you're taking a very specific cross-section of stupidity there, 1) americans and 2) about geek stuffz Aug 21 14:13:14 you're bound to get a stupidity rate indistinguishable from 100% Aug 21 14:14:34 :rolleyes: Aug 21 14:15:00 kerio: actually, less than 8% of people actually knew what a browser is Aug 21 14:15:01 i think youtube comments are worse than tmo Aug 21 14:16:13 i think calling people who are interested enough to comment about something is the wrong approach personally Aug 21 14:16:22 Stskeeps, YouTube is the Internet ghetto. Aug 21 14:16:56 It's impossible to find less coherent comments. Aug 21 14:17:13 the intelligent thing is being able to cut through the comment text and find the reason for their post Aug 21 14:17:21 GAN900 skyblog plateform is worse Aug 21 14:18:21 raster: well, it's not only software industry Aug 21 14:18:27 raster: it's everywhere Aug 21 14:18:52 I have some experimental code that does that for youtube. Aug 21 14:18:56 lcuk, there usually isn't one. Aug 21 14:19:08 But for every comment on the site, it simply returns 'EUSERASSHAT'. Aug 21 14:19:11 GAN900, then you aren't looking hard enough Aug 21 14:19:26 or ignoring the reason Aug 21 14:19:30 lcuk, clearly you have way too much time on your hands. Aug 21 14:19:37 no I don't Aug 21 14:19:42 I just know not to ignore feedback Aug 21 14:19:51 or dismiss the person giving it as stupid Aug 21 14:20:01 * GAN900 also suspects anti-depressants Aug 21 14:20:37 yeah, you should get some Aug 21 14:20:46 On Soulja Boy music video comments? Aug 21 14:21:18 i don't generally go looking at meme videos or need to understand the comments Aug 21 14:21:29 but I certainly see all sorts of comments around the maemo meego stuff Aug 21 14:21:39 and take the mood of them seriously Aug 21 14:22:00 jacekowski: i'd just expect more of people who are meant to be intelligent AND trained by tertiary education in their field (ie did comp eng/sci) Aug 21 14:22:26 Itr's unfortunartely hard to comment constructively, when the real problem is 'you bought the wrong phone'. Aug 21 14:22:41 Is there a stable,working g++ package for diablo on the nokia 810? Aug 21 14:22:55 g++ is gcc isn't it? Aug 21 14:23:01 rff ^ Aug 21 14:23:08 lcuk, I wasn't talking specifically about Maemo/MeeGo video comments. :) Aug 21 14:23:12 yeah, it includes g++ Aug 21 14:23:13 gcc compiles c, g++ compiles c++ Aug 21 14:23:25 well I was - since those are the videos that matter to us around here Aug 21 14:23:32 but I think they are separate on maemo Aug 21 14:23:37 rff, yes Aug 21 14:23:47 repository.maemo.org lists all the available repos Aug 21 14:23:56 there is an sdk/tools repo set Aug 21 14:24:00 which is intended for the sdk Aug 21 14:24:11 I'll check it out, thanks Aug 21 14:24:12 however you can get build-essential from within it Aug 21 14:24:17 Tertiary education not necessarily having any correlation to idiocy or non-idiocy. *g* Aug 21 14:24:21 build-essential? Aug 21 14:24:25 which lets you build apps using makefiles and c and c++ etc Aug 21 14:24:27 yes Aug 21 14:24:35 adds gcc and make capabilities Aug 21 14:24:43 the essentials for buildign apps ;) Aug 21 14:25:00 i love yuv mode now Aug 21 14:25:11 pupnik, :) only now? Aug 21 14:25:18 is that the little page I showed you Aug 21 14:25:22 so the lcd controller doesn't convert to 16-bit rgb before presenting it to the screen? Aug 21 14:25:41 yeah Aug 21 14:25:53 i didn't realize one could avoid the 565 quantisation that way Aug 21 14:26:05 no Aug 21 14:26:08 its very nice Aug 21 14:26:14 same as on the n8x0 too Aug 21 14:26:24 <- just learned something today :) Aug 21 14:26:41 achievement unlocked! Aug 21 14:27:00 * pupnik tests gemrb some more Aug 21 14:27:40 for those wondering why this conversation is occuring: http://liqbase.net/liq.20100820_comparison_yuv_rgb_x11.htm Aug 21 14:29:15 i still don't get why we don't get 24bit in rgb mode :( Aug 21 14:29:27 pupnik: opengl also uses full colour capabilities Aug 21 14:29:43 I noticed qmlviewer when backed with -opengl has much smoother gradients. Aug 21 14:29:44 kerio, 50% more data Aug 21 14:31:07 alterego, even when it goes through the compositor on the desktop? Aug 21 14:31:25 Not tsure Aug 21 14:31:30 is there an easy way to find the number of true bits in a bitmask? Aug 21 14:31:37 i mean, of "true" bits Aug 21 14:31:37 I am not sure, but perhaps you are just noticing a similar sort of rendering conversion issue that the software renderer does differently to the ogl one Aug 21 14:31:39 as in "1" Aug 21 14:31:43 as opposed to 0 Aug 21 14:32:52 kerio, I have seen some asm bitlogic in the past for that Aug 21 14:32:55 what do you want it for Aug 21 14:33:04 lcuk: counting the poss Aug 21 14:33:08 poss? Aug 21 14:33:12 er Aug 21 14:33:15 stupid return key >.< Aug 21 14:33:26 counting the possible values of a cell in a sudoku board Aug 21 14:33:33 lcuk: rgb 2nds to almost always be 32bit - so 2x the data actually Aug 21 14:33:34 keeping track of it in another value is a PITA Aug 21 14:33:42 i could just use a string containing the numbers Aug 21 14:33:42 but meh Aug 21 14:33:51 as 24bit is grossly inefficient for access due to the 3 byte pixel groups Aug 21 14:34:04 tho i have toi say Aug 21 14:34:14 all my embedded toys run 32bpp Aug 21 14:34:19 as frankly. the quality is just nice Aug 21 14:34:25 16bpp is dead Aug 21 14:34:33 the screen can only display 18bit color anyway so 24bits would be a bit of a waste already Aug 21 14:34:37 alterego, opengl does dithering (afair) Aug 21 14:34:38 on any modern smartphne-like hw Aug 21 14:34:59 Kegetys: not my screens. they do full 24bits :) Aug 21 14:35:00 It's more than dithering Aug 21 14:35:05 but they also are super-amoled :) Aug 21 14:35:11 raster, sure, I run in truecolor also Aug 21 14:35:13 well, N900 screen Aug 21 14:35:30 nice thing about YUV, it gracefully degrades to grayscale Aug 21 14:35:33 18bpp vs 16bpp is also relatively noticable in terms of speed Aug 21 14:35:42 which should work nicely on bookreaders etc Aug 21 14:40:17 * Khertan is really happy with his new bug tracker Aug 21 14:40:27 alterego, http://team.pld-linux.org/~wolf/opengl.png Aug 21 14:40:46 lcuk: i've added http://repository.maemo.org/extras/install/extras.install but i'm not seeing a c/c++ or build-essentials package Aug 21 14:40:49 dithering is lame Aug 21 14:40:50 is there any go game for maemo ? Aug 21 14:40:51 :) Aug 21 14:40:56 32bpp is da bomb Aug 21 14:40:57 :) Aug 21 14:41:04 rff, then you did not read either my comments, nor the page I linked Aug 21 14:41:11 9ok ok dithering may be a necessary evil if all u have is 16bpp etc.) Aug 21 14:41:21 wolf^: and? Do you think I don't know what dithering is? Aug 21 14:41:44 alterego, and that's a screenshot of n900 opengl driver rendering "more that 16 bit" Aug 21 14:42:00 raster, how do you use alpha on the background itself, I understand needing it for middle layers, and for alignment, but the alpha component isnt used for anything on the lcd itself is it Aug 21 14:42:05 lcuk: why is that? Aug 21 14:42:29 rff, because I did not say to add extras repository Aug 21 14:42:37 so go and read what I did say Aug 21 14:42:39 256bpp is the shit Aug 21 14:42:55 vga mode-x is where its at :P Aug 21 14:43:12 i want a 2000dpi screen with 256bpp of color depth Aug 21 14:43:18 ah, mistakenly thought extras included the SDK packages Aug 21 14:43:25 i'll install one behind each window Aug 21 14:43:37 add some eyetracking, and bam Aug 21 14:43:49 awesome panorama Aug 21 14:44:12 lcuk: well the hw i have uses it as an optional alpha mask to the yuv layer Aug 21 14:44:15 as yuv is an underlay Aug 21 14:44:22 so u can blend rgb on top Aug 21 14:44:26 if u dont use yuv Aug 21 14:44:29 raster: cool Aug 21 14:44:31 then the alpha in the fb is unused Aug 21 14:44:34 its just alignment padding Aug 21 14:44:41 * lcuk nods Aug 21 14:45:39 whats the lifetime of amoled screens like, are you seeing any leaps and bounds in its longevity? Aug 21 14:45:52 well there have been over the years Aug 21 14:46:02 i just think they look gorgeouis Aug 21 14:46:08 like black is pure black Aug 21 14:46:10 no grey Aug 21 14:46:11 black. Aug 21 14:46:17 like nothing. nada. black Aug 21 14:46:20 of course, I have seen and touched, they are nice Aug 21 14:46:24 when screen turns on - u notice nothing Aug 21 14:46:30 unlike lcd where u see it go grey Aug 21 14:46:48 and super-amoled works just as wel las lcd in daylight etc. Aug 21 14:46:52 raster: how's your linux adventures going? Aug 21 14:46:55 with reflections and so-on Aug 21 14:47:04 the colors are amazing Aug 21 14:47:07 compared to lcd Aug 21 14:47:13 they really are vivid Aug 21 14:47:18 its gorgeous Aug 21 14:47:22 only 1 problem Aug 21 14:47:34 there always is ;) Aug 21 14:47:36 the pentile matrix basicallt drops your r & b horizontal res/. Aug 21 14:47:41 Stskeeps: going well Aug 21 14:47:42 :) Aug 21 14:47:47 raster, yeah I know Aug 21 14:47:54 raster: limo and android pissing their pants yet? Aug 21 14:47:54 :P Aug 21 14:47:55 it drops the res and allows for seeming optimisations Aug 21 14:48:02 whilst saying you support x res, its lower ;) Aug 21 14:48:37 Stskeeps: la la la la la :) Aug 21 14:48:49 lcuk: well really there is no point trying to do hacks Aug 21 14:48:54 lcuk: unfortunately the link doesn't exist for the SDK repository targetting diablo Aug 21 14:49:04 "Cleartype" (subpixel font rendering) falls over on oled Aug 21 14:49:10 as the rgb arrangement is different Aug 21 14:49:16 i actually despise most such hacks Aug 21 14:49:32 that assume some kind fo screen properties Aug 21 14:49:34 rff then you are blind because I can see them Aug 21 14:49:45 they tend to sooner or later be obsoleeted or falll apart when screen tech changes Aug 21 14:50:11 raster, what I meant was that amoled using less pixels than advertised Aug 21 14:50:18 allows them to go faster whilst pushing less data Aug 21 14:50:39 for years it was all about how crt's doont have exact pixels and that pixels bleed based on brightness and that u have to always render with special gamma to account for crt Aug 21 14:50:42 then people got lcd's Aug 21 14:50:43 and that changed Aug 21 14:51:02 then it was all the rages for sub-pixel rendering due to a semi-standard rgb lcd cell setup Aug 21 14:51:14 and now thats being killed off with oled simply being different again Aug 21 14:51:15 etc. Aug 21 14:51:43 raster, microsoft cleartype implementation has a lovely selector to choose the right layout of pixels Aug 21 14:51:50 oh i see the lower res with r & b Aug 21 14:51:53 its nice to see, the low end just accepts a switch Aug 21 14:51:55 and it works :) Aug 21 14:51:59 one of the things i noticed early on Aug 21 14:52:12 but i am willing to live with it in return for the colors and contrast Aug 21 14:52:34 raster, sure - i do a similar thing with YUV since it has lower res colours Aug 21 14:52:40 but full res b+w Aug 21 14:52:43 raster: I find it weird how people never mention that those wonderful LED-lit screents produce shitty color Aug 21 14:52:45 lcuk: one thing i despise about it even when its "right for your display" is the color fringing Aug 21 14:52:55 Worse than the normal EL-lit LCDs Aug 21 14:52:57 you introduce colorisation where there was no color before Aug 21 14:53:02 and it irks me something wicked Aug 21 14:53:56 RST38h: dunno - my tv @ home is defintiely nicer than my previous el-backlight one Aug 21 14:54:01 and boy is it thin and light Aug 21 14:54:12 even tho it got bigger from 42 ->46" Aug 21 14:54:21 its even nicer than it ever was before Aug 21 14:54:22 raster: yep, that is true Aug 21 14:54:37 "it depends" i guess Aug 21 14:54:48 raster: But all three LED-lit computer displays I have seen pale (literally) when compared with the old IBM's EL-lit display Aug 21 14:54:52 but i do think the marketing gimmick of "led screens" is annyoing Aug 21 14:55:02 aas its "led backlight with lcd front filter" Aug 21 14:55:08 raster: yep Aug 21 14:55:17 raster: But that would be ok, if they looked better Aug 21 14:55:27 lcuk: does http://repository.maemo.org/install/diablo-tools.install give you a 404? Aug 21 14:55:49 raster: Another weird effects: when looking at the HP LED-lit display through glasses, all the window edges have red double-edge Aug 21 14:56:12 raster: I first thought it is the display itself, but then took the glasses off - and it is gone Aug 21 14:56:12 hmm Aug 21 14:56:13 odd Aug 21 14:56:29 i havent got an led pc monitor to judge by Aug 21 14:56:34 but my tv looks awesome :) Aug 21 14:56:45 raster: Both LED-lit laptop screens I have look ok (just pale) Aug 21 14:57:01 raster: better than a CRT tv? ;) Aug 21 14:57:22 hell yeah Aug 21 14:57:32 raster: weird Aug 21 14:57:53 RST38h, odd, what prescription? Aug 21 14:58:06 i'll be happy to never see another crt again Aug 21 14:58:34 GAN900_ -5/-5 Aug 21 14:58:56 raster: Got an EL-lit LCD TV and an ancient Goldstar (!) CRT Aug 21 14:59:06 raster: Freaking CRT has got a better color. Aug 21 14:59:10 RST38h, pretty decent. Aug 21 14:59:31 GAN: You should try it for yourself, in BestBuy or something Aug 21 14:59:36 The LED-lit Apple IPSes I've seen all look better. Aug 21 14:59:49 GAN: Look for a 24" or so LED_lit HP display Aug 21 15:00:20 GAN: If you do not see it, then it must be the lense covering or something Aug 21 15:00:25 rff, not sure I was thinking about the info rather than a .install file - the sdk is not technically designed for on device use however it does work. you will have to dig Aug 21 15:00:38 RST38h, yeah, haven't seen any TN LED panels yet. Aug 21 15:01:17 moo wazd Aug 21 15:01:44 yeah, maybe i can just create my own install file Aug 21 15:02:18 raster: only a few LED backlights are actually a fine individually steerable matrix - iirc, the rest are sidelit Aug 21 15:02:25 rff, using an install file is fruitless Aug 21 15:02:34 since you cannot install the command line apps for the sdk using HAM Aug 21 15:02:46 pupnik: Sidelit will look like real shit on any decently sized display Aug 21 15:03:07 pupnik: So, I would still believe those 12"+ LED-lit displays are backlit Aug 21 15:03:21 i have no idea where i read that - maybe it's all wrong Aug 21 15:03:30 pupnik: Extreme example of sidelit was the original GBA Aug 21 15:03:55 pupnik: Less extreme examples are N8x0 and Symbian phones Aug 21 15:05:24 very happy with the n900 display: just need either more battery or less drain Aug 21 15:05:55 anyone here playing ja2? Aug 21 15:07:11 how do i aim and shoot...? when i hold the cursor over an enemy, it stays a hand Aug 21 15:07:56 lcuk: i'm running into major dependency issues. i can't install build-essential because it depends on libc6-dev, libc6, gcc, g++, etc. and I don't see libc6 listed in the repository. Aug 21 15:10:42 ah, it is listed under the gcc package Aug 21 15:11:18 pupnik: Yea, N900 display is very decent. But it is small enough to bse sidelit Aug 21 15:11:50 hm, no it isn't. It must be somewhere else. Aug 21 15:13:59 it's under glibc Aug 21 15:15:24 a/win 34 Aug 21 15:15:25 fail Aug 21 15:35:28 i'm getting an issue where libstdc++6-dev cannot be installed because it depends on g++-3.4 and g++-3.4 cannot be installed because it depends on libstdc++6-dev, what gives? Aug 21 15:37:08 hello... i have a n900 browser based problem... Aug 21 15:37:26 Munkiii: ? Aug 21 15:37:31 a webpage isn't loading fully/properley for me Aug 21 15:37:37 which one? Aug 21 15:37:53 can somebody go on facebook and search for "situare" Aug 21 15:38:02 don't have facebook. Aug 21 15:38:12 anybody? Aug 21 15:39:29 somebody in here must do? Aug 21 15:39:45 Wow, Aes, sha1 and md5 acceleration drivers for omap2 are now available: https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/95680/ https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/95681/ https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/98168/ https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/120630/ https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/120631/ Aug 21 15:39:56 Would they work on the n900 as well? Aug 21 15:40:03 yes - I noted they were going into kernel. Aug 21 15:40:08 a while back. Aug 21 15:40:30 Yes but the aes driver is new. Aug 21 15:40:31 There is a hardware hash unit - are the others accellerated asm? Aug 21 15:40:53 or other functional units than the CPU? Aug 21 15:41:51 how do u change my text colour using Xchat? Aug 21 15:42:25 I think it picks it up from the theme - I'm unsure. Aug 21 15:42:35 ah ha, you have to install them simultaneously Aug 21 15:42:45 actually - no Aug 21 15:42:53 settings->preferences -> colors Aug 21 15:43:06 in xchat Aug 21 15:43:42 i'm in that... but can't see which one changes the colour of my messages Aug 21 15:44:13 worked? Aug 21 15:44:15 nope Aug 21 15:45:24 The only asm, I found in the aes driver https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/120631/ is "* prevent OCP bus error (SRESP) (...) __asm__ __volatile__("nop"); " Aug 21 15:46:58 tobis87: about the driver: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mbx3d-drivers-out-for-n8x0-and-other.html and http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/05/first-instance-of-what-have-i-done-for.html Aug 21 15:49:43 Oh - right - hardware AES Aug 21 15:49:46 diddn't know that Aug 21 15:49:46 neat Aug 21 15:50:31 Venemo: Sorry, but I only see information about a MBX/3D driver. Aug 21 15:51:35 I want mergemem. Aug 21 15:52:06 http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/ulrich/mergemem/ Aug 21 15:52:14 which hardware hashers would make easier Aug 21 15:52:29 Does the n900 also have hardware aes support? And if it does, is it possible to adopt the driver? Aug 21 15:53:39 tobis87: Well - that comment in the code seems to imply so Aug 21 15:55:18 SpeedEvil: So do you think it would be possible to backport the aes driver for the n900 kernel? The sha1 and md5 driver would be hard, because 2.6.28 does not support shash which the new driver depends on. Aug 21 15:55:40 I don't see why not Aug 21 15:55:54 It's obviously possible. Aug 21 15:56:02 I have absolutely no idea how much work it would be. Aug 21 15:57:34 SpeedEvil: latest mergemem files are from 1999?!:-D Aug 21 16:00:12 yes Aug 21 16:00:53 See also http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT6789156 Aug 21 16:01:00 And note the date Aug 21 16:07:10 SpeedEvil: I don't know but does linux not already do memory sharing, by supplying libc for example as a readonly libary in memory which is shared between all processes? Aug 21 16:08:53 yes Aug 21 16:08:55 but Aug 21 16:09:15 startmtwo bashes Aug 21 16:09:50 they init lots of 'new" data that is really the same. Aug 21 16:11:03 Engadget now takes weeks to load more than the first story on the page in MicroB. Aug 21 16:16:07 color test... Aug 21 16:16:50 color test... Aug 21 16:17:32 sorted. Aug 21 16:32:01 SpeedEvil: The first problem regarding the aes driver is, that there are missing includes, do you think I can replace and with and ? Aug 21 16:32:24 tobis87: Hang on - let me get my kernel reference. Aug 21 16:32:35 It says 'Outlook unclear, ask again later'. Aug 21 16:33:42 Hi someone can explain me why my feed content isn't display on http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ Aug 21 16:34:44 it s look ok when i look at the feed directly : http://khertan.net/category/maemo/feed/ Aug 21 16:37:11 ~seen lcuk Aug 21 16:37:13 lcuk is currently on #maemo (4h 59m 31s) #meego (4h 59m 31s). Has said a total of 228 messages. Is idling for 1h 34m 38s, last said: 'since you cannot install the command line apps for the sdk using HAM'. Aug 21 16:37:51 hu ... just notice that there is pymaemo in gitorious but also harmattan python Aug 21 16:38:37 Khertan: yeah, interesting stuff going on on gitorious Aug 21 16:38:47 SpeedEvil: I have successful buld omap-aes.ko, next to go omap-sham.ko, replacing it with mach worked, but I'm not sure if it is correct. But I can only modify the modules, the stuff which has to go into the kernel has to do someone else, since i can only compile on the device. Aug 21 16:38:59 Venemo, interesting but strange too ... why 2 projects Aug 21 16:39:13 ok maybe the maemo name in meego :) Aug 21 16:39:57 Khertan: if you look at http://maemo.gitorious.org/ there are already some stuff from Harmattan Aug 21 16:40:16 Venemo, yeah ... i see it :) Aug 21 16:40:20 Stskeeps, ping Aug 21 16:40:26 python 2.6 at least for meego :) Aug 21 16:41:03 Venemo: zzz Aug 21 16:41:27 Stskeeps: just read your analysis on http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo.org/openness/pr1.1/ Aug 21 16:41:33 pyside is in gitorious too Aug 21 16:41:48 Stskeeps: can I ask what is the 40% closed component in hildon-desktop? Aug 21 16:41:58 SpeedEvil: Exactly what I thought, omap-sham will cause troubles. The shash stuff is missing. -> implicit declaration of function crypto_shash_blocksize ... Aug 21 16:43:13 Stskeeps: interestingly, you wrote that 40% of hildon-desktop comes from L7, I'm curious which part is it? Aug 21 16:43:20 Venemo: sec Aug 21 16:43:36 keep in mind 40% is amount of source packages Aug 21 16:43:38 hildon-desktop-applet-settings-mr0 Aug 21 16:43:38 hildon-desktop-application-shortcuts-mr0 Aug 21 16:43:41 translations Aug 21 16:43:46 click the 40% Aug 21 16:44:49 Stskeeps: ah... hm. Aug 21 16:45:10 L7 ? Aug 21 16:45:21 Stskeeps: do we know what do these things do? Aug 21 16:45:26 Khertan: read that page Aug 21 16:45:38 Khertan: L7: Not published except on device and SSU repositories Aug 21 16:45:44 :) Aug 21 16:46:16 Khertan: this is a study about the openness of Maemo Aug 21 16:46:49 Khertan: according to this, only 43% of the packages are open on the N900 Aug 21 16:46:58 other 100% :) Aug 21 16:48:10 yep ... it s look like a nice description, listing ... Aug 21 16:48:25 Khertan: it is quite informative, yes Aug 21 16:49:38 yep Aug 21 16:50:32 Stskeeps: after some googling of the two closed packages, these are no big deal Aug 21 16:50:44 they're translations Aug 21 16:50:45 :P Aug 21 16:52:10 Stskeeps: no Aug 21 16:52:52 Venemo, and despite numerous protestations to the contrary, it's likely never to improve. Aug 21 16:52:54 it s strange to see that modest depends on closed package Aug 21 16:54:19 Stskeeps: they are not translations http://maemo.org/packages/view/hildon-desktop-applet-settings-mr0/ http://maemo.org/packages/view/hildon-desktop-application-shortcuts-mr0/ Aug 21 16:54:39 Khertan: I guess this is in order to keep people from messing with it Aug 21 16:55:00 hum ... more than it is actually ? Aug 21 16:55:02 haha Aug 21 16:55:34 I must admit that this is very cleverly thought out. The closed dependencies are there to prevent using it anywhere outside of Maemo (I guess) Aug 21 16:56:39 brb Aug 21 16:58:54 Venemo: ah, customizations Aug 21 17:01:05 so anyone know how maemo planet works ? Aug 21 17:01:27 i still didn't understand why my feed aren't display well Aug 21 17:09:33 Khertan, get X-Fade to look at you RSS. Aug 21 17:10:08 GAN900, oh ... I ll bother X-Fade again :) Aug 21 17:10:13 GAN900, oh ... I ll borring X-Fade again :) Aug 21 17:10:31 Hey, why else is he here? ;) Aug 21 17:10:36 lol Aug 21 17:22:47 err... does https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5549#c9 logic look completely broken only to me? Aug 21 17:22:48 Bug 5549: libosso-abook should be open source Aug 21 17:23:55 Not at all. Aug 21 17:24:05 "we won't develop it anymore -> we won't give you a chance to develop" Aug 21 17:24:15 If you start out with the point of view 'Do we want people developing this' Aug 21 17:26:00 SpeedEvil: what would they lose? Aug 21 17:26:37 there is a little logic Aug 21 17:26:44 that i didn't caution Aug 21 17:26:53 but qgil explain it in a talk post Aug 21 17:27:16 re Aug 21 17:27:56 (to be honest, i don't care about libosso-abook) Aug 21 17:28:28 but reasoning just seems to be broken Aug 21 17:28:45 slonopotamus: well, it is broken Aug 21 17:28:56 slonopotamus: but I actually agree with you Aug 21 17:29:09 slonopotamus: why don't you express your opinion in a comment there? Aug 21 17:29:11 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=783133&postcount=25 Aug 21 17:29:18 Venemo: it's useless Aug 21 17:30:46 Khertan: throwing tarball at ppl is an option too. Aug 21 17:30:58 slonopotamus: agreed Aug 21 17:31:07 it s not really an option for them Aug 21 17:31:17 slonopotamus: but... after we will have a working MeeGo on the N900, this and similar stuff will no longer be an issue Aug 21 17:31:22 Khertan: we would never see quake engines opensourced if Id Software followed that logic Aug 21 17:31:32 as they want to not do just open source code ... but open source dev Aug 21 17:31:51 Khertan: id opened them _because_ they no longer used them Aug 21 17:32:15 slonopotamus, i didn't say i agree ... i'm not the guy to convince :) Aug 21 17:32:27 look at vectormine ... it s now gpl :) Aug 21 17:32:39 Khertan: id software loses nothing, community is happy, john carmac is a hero, etc :) Aug 21 17:32:48 awesome Khertan Aug 21 17:33:08 just needs a Space Duel mod now Aug 21 17:33:09 slonopotamus, he was already an hero before :) Aug 21 17:33:23 Khertan: nokia fails to do opensource dev. look at qt. Aug 21 17:33:29 pupnik, hh ... if you code the bt communication :) Aug 21 17:33:46 slonopotamus, ? what s the problem with qt ? Aug 21 17:34:35 slonopotamus: please elaborate :) Aug 21 17:34:56 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/vectormine/1.1.0-4/ <<< 4 votes needed to reach extras :) Aug 21 17:35:06 vectormine (v. 1.0.7-1) correct for n810? Aug 21 17:35:30 Khertan: afair i saw a post on planet maemo, will try to find again Aug 21 17:35:39 hum 1.0.7-1 is the non-free Aug 21 17:36:02 pupnik, and for n810 it ll failed as i use the n900 accellerometers Aug 21 17:36:09 but can be replace by keys Aug 21 17:36:27 http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_source/vectormine/1.1.0-4/ <<< the source Aug 21 17:36:36 ok that's np Aug 21 17:36:42 ty Aug 21 17:38:07 Khertan: first one http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-39d804f894f811df92cd43948f59e6d1e6d1 Aug 21 17:38:23 Khertan: 1 min, had another link Aug 21 17:39:27 do you know if there's a sudoku for n900 Aug 21 17:39:28 ? Aug 21 17:40:23 kerio, http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=sudoku&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same Aug 21 17:40:26 yes Aug 21 17:40:29 multiple versions Aug 21 17:41:31 kerio: I use EightyOne, but there are more Aug 21 17:41:46 <_0x47> Hi all! If you had some source code from subversion and would package it into a .deb, would you keep the .svn directories inside to be able to update the sources and easily repackage it? Aug 21 17:42:18 i was thinking of making another sudoku application for maemo Aug 21 17:42:23 am i an idiot? Aug 21 17:42:26 i mean, regarding this Aug 21 17:42:38 _0x47, you mean pushing the hidden svn meta info in the source uploaded to extras{devel|testing} etc? Aug 21 17:42:49 <_0x47> lcuk: yes, indeed Aug 21 17:42:58 then, no do not include it Aug 21 17:43:08 <_0x47> ok, thanks! :) Aug 21 17:43:12 for one thing, doesn't it save your password ;) Aug 21 17:43:28 <_0x47> lcuk: public access, but good point Aug 21 17:43:47 lcuk: no, it's in ~/.subversion Aug 21 17:45:04 Khertan: ahha, found it. http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2010/07/20/qts-open-bug-tracker/ Aug 21 17:47:04 slonopotamus, it s not really so bad ... just need some improvments ... Aug 21 17:48:49 Khertan: it's just pretending to be open :) Aug 21 17:49:00 slonopotamus: they still have to learn how to do open source development properly, that's all Aug 21 17:49:46 it's open ... they just need some time to change things Aug 21 17:50:21 Venemo: look at openoffice and sun jdk. they have same issues as nokia and are not going to fix them Aug 21 17:51:13 well, openoffice is even worse since it accepts commits only if you give copyrights to sun/oracle :) Aug 21 17:51:44 s/commits/patches/ Aug 21 17:51:44 slonopotamus meant: well, openoffice is even worse since it accepts patches only if you give copyrights to sun/oracle :) Aug 21 17:52:24 slonopotamus: well then, Nokia is already learning Aug 21 17:52:52 slonopotamus: actually, with contribution Hildon to GNOME, they already did some very nice open source efforts Aug 21 17:53:03 Hi Aug 21 17:53:14 slonopotamus: contribution => contributing Aug 21 17:53:21 johnsq: Hello! Aug 21 17:58:18 hum ... someone know where is the meego handset image for n900 ... i would like to install it to try some python qt apps Aug 21 17:58:22 hello Aug 21 17:58:28 oups wrong chan Aug 21 17:58:40 what was the name of that bluesnafting program for maemo/n900 ? Aug 21 18:00:43 Khertan: you think it would be possible to run dhcp over bluetooth? Aug 21 18:00:56 none idea Aug 21 18:02:02 slonopotamus: They are trying to 'manage' the community, much as they would in-house coders. Aug 21 18:02:21 For in-house coders, it's quite valid to say 'no, you can't work on that, work on this'. Aug 21 18:02:29 And this gets the effort, not that. Aug 21 18:02:45 For opensource community, this doesn't quite work. Aug 21 18:03:05 As people may want to work on stuff that does not fit your preconcieved framework. Aug 21 18:03:41 Which can get really embarrasing if the 'old clunky' interface gets extended in a nice fashion and performs better in all aspects than the 'bright shiny new' one. Aug 21 18:03:57 This can be avoided by not opensourcing the old clunky one. Aug 21 18:04:23 Khertan: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 Aug 21 18:04:33 SpeedEvil: heh ._. Aug 21 18:04:53 really, someone should break in the nokia hq and post all the source to wikileaks Aug 21 18:04:57 from the CEO's workstation Aug 21 18:05:34 kerio, did you really think CEO has source ... they just manage team :) Aug 21 18:05:41 s/team/teams Aug 21 18:06:19 Khertan: i think the CEO definetely *has* access to the source Aug 21 18:07:26 i doubt Aug 21 18:07:47 in my company i prefer to not let him break somethings Aug 21 18:07:48 :) Aug 21 18:08:30 Khertan: i wasn't talking about commit access Aug 21 18:37:03 Aug 21 18:39:59 * Venemo agrees with RST38h Aug 21 18:41:12 evening all Aug 21 18:41:18 ~lart Debian naming Aug 21 18:41:19 * infobot nukes Debian naming with a single large nuke Aug 21 18:41:48 I wasted a couple of hours trying to compile python-qt-blah, thinking that was PythonQT, but no, it was in fact PyQT Aug 21 18:43:09 hey crashanddie Aug 21 18:43:43 ah, that affect again ;) Aug 21 18:44:01 s/affect/effect oops Aug 21 18:44:12 heya lardman Aug 21 18:44:17 hi RST38h Aug 21 18:44:22 lardman: hey Aug 21 18:44:32 hi Venemo Aug 21 18:44:46 anything exciting going on this weekend in maemo-land? Aug 21 18:44:55 not really Aug 21 18:45:07 am considering whether to try to package PythonQT, but think I might wait till tomorrow Aug 21 18:45:34 lardman: perhaps check this out: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60599 Aug 21 18:46:12 hmm, interesting Aug 21 18:46:22 Venemo: played much with QML? Aug 21 18:46:34 I was thinking that disabling the UI effects should be included in that control panel applet Aug 21 18:47:06 alterego: not yet Aug 21 18:47:08 tweakr Aug 21 18:48:47 Khertan: you about? thanks for your thoughts with the code but it was the wrong one Aug 21 18:49:12 Khertan: I've now compiled PythonQT successfully, will package and push to the repo tomorrow fwiw Aug 21 18:49:42 and on that note, I'm going to head to watch a DVD, cu chaps tomorrow Aug 21 18:49:46 lardman there was a load of discussion about how to package up hacks Aug 21 18:49:55 lcukn900: hacks? Aug 21 18:50:14 yeah console tridcks nut i have to go Aug 21 18:50:16 was simply the wrong code yesterday, my fault (and Debian's naming scheme) Aug 21 18:50:34 was PyQT rather than PythonQT Aug 21 18:50:56 the wonders of unambiguous naming ;) Aug 21 18:51:19 anyway, will catch you all tomorrow :) Aug 21 19:06:23 can someone tell me what was the software named that can bluesnarf other bluetooth enabled phones? Aug 21 19:06:32 it was for n900/maemo Aug 21 19:08:10 anyone have exerience with internet over usb on an n900? Aug 21 19:18:33 delirus, you mean using the n900 as a modem for your laptop, or getting internet through main computer into your n900 Aug 21 19:24:21 delirus: both are equally valid options for "internet over usb on a n900" Aug 21 19:27:20 ah, I mean getting internet to my n900 through usb Aug 21 19:27:22 goodbye everyone :) Aug 21 19:27:24 good night Aug 21 19:28:14 was just wondering if anyone had any problems in the process of doing it Aug 21 19:28:24 delirus: hmm, there's a wiki page on that Aug 21 19:28:45 ah, can I get a link? Aug 21 19:29:31 http://wiki.maemo.org/ Aug 21 19:32:24 Um, hiya people... Quick question about contacts - does anyone know an easy way to access Number/Contact-name pairings from Python? (ie. using the number +447891234567, check whose name I have that registered to in my contacts list) Aug 21 19:32:45 I've found lib-abook, but that's a C library Aug 21 19:33:05 and I was wondering if there was a way to access them without going through that Aug 21 19:34:25 * unixSnob just read a page claiming GPG only works for signatures on maemo Aug 21 19:34:28 is that true? Aug 21 19:35:32 no crypto apps? Aug 21 19:36:00 no secure email? Aug 21 19:40:01 huh? why would it only work for signatures? Aug 21 19:40:18 it's a cpu Aug 21 19:40:18 it calculates things Aug 21 19:40:57 kerio: see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/34803 Aug 21 19:41:31 maemo may be crippled to stay thin Aug 21 19:41:37 not sure what else it would be Aug 21 19:42:00 well, if that's the case, then it's likely because signature verification has been the only systme requirement for gpg Aug 21 19:42:07 I suppose otherwise it wouldn't even be bundled Aug 21 19:42:14 nothing prevents you from putting in your own GPG if you wish Aug 21 19:42:58 dd-wrt is missing some hash algorithms because they're too heavy for an underpowered cpu.. could be the same thing Aug 21 19:43:03 (AFAIK the mail program doesn't support encryption, though, but its source is available as well ;-)) Aug 21 19:43:19 flux: these algorithms are compiled into GPG.. it wouldn't be trivial to just add an algorithm Aug 21 19:43:49 hi Aug 21 19:43:51 unixsnob, it's a console app. I believe it _would_ be trivial to take the standard gnupg and build it in scratchbox and package it etc. or just copy the binary. Aug 21 19:44:05 unixsnob, it's not like it uses any special hardware for encryption Aug 21 19:44:24 possible.. but not trivial for a user.. users don't expect to have to work with a scratchpad Aug 21 19:44:37 it's not even trivial to install a scratchpad Aug 21 19:44:39 well, users don't except to drop into xterm to run gpg.. Aug 21 19:44:44 someone know why packages from testing are not promoted automatically to extras when maintainter gets email that it can be done? Aug 21 19:44:56 I had to do quite a bit of work to get a scratchpad going Aug 21 19:45:36 it apperas there there's something like gnupg2 available in the repositories Aug 21 19:45:55 i'll check it out Aug 21 19:46:00 cause mdbus2 2.0.0-4 was in testing and got all to be promoted to extras but in meantime I pushed 2.0.2 ver to devel (forgot to testing) Aug 21 19:46:29 unixsnob, in addition, there's openssl command line tool, which can be used for encryption/decryption as well Aug 21 19:47:55 openssl wouldn't help me.. I want to be able to decrypt gpg messages Aug 21 19:48:36 folks could probably really use this capability in the middle east Aug 21 19:48:41 unixSnob: write a package then Aug 21 19:48:45 how would I create a new 3G connection? I need to be able to connect to different APNs. Aug 21 19:48:58 where India and saudi arabia are now snooping on Blackberry IMs Aug 21 19:49:28 moin Aug 21 19:54:09 unixSnob: install fAPN Aug 21 19:54:09 and expect weirdness if you enable autoconnect Aug 21 19:54:16 hehe, maemo's package names rule Aug 21 19:54:26 fap'n Aug 21 19:58:06 kerio: i don't quite follow.. looks like a GSM app, correct? Are you saying it will install public key crypto? Aug 21 19:58:24 no, wait, confused the usernames Aug 21 19:58:26 ._. Aug 21 19:58:29 muellisoft: install fAPN Aug 21 19:58:36 ah Aug 21 19:58:38 and expect weirdness if you enable autoconnect Aug 21 19:58:48 unixSnob: you compile your own public key crypto! Aug 21 19:58:55 how can you be sure it works, otherwise? Aug 21 19:58:57 :D Aug 21 19:59:36 i just trust that everyone else has looked at it Aug 21 19:59:42 hm kerio. So can I not simply have multilpe GSM/UMTS based connections? Like with WiFi? Aug 21 19:59:50 and i hope everyone else isn't counting on the same thing Aug 21 20:00:05 Muelli: you can, but maemo software is not meant to support multiple APNs Aug 21 20:00:12 so the autoconnect won't work properly Aug 21 20:00:20 apart from that, it should work fine Aug 21 20:05:16 kerio: you mean multiple GSM/UMTS connections? Because a connection cannot have multiple APNs. Aug 21 20:05:45 yeah Aug 21 20:07:17 kerio: how would I create a new cellular connection then? Aug 21 20:07:29 install fAPN Aug 21 20:07:43 (really, who picks those names) Aug 21 20:08:18 Muelli: you'll only be able to have one connection active at a time in Maemo tho Aug 21 20:08:21 hm. I hoped I could do that without installing 3rd party tools Aug 21 20:09:13 luke-jr: sure. I'm fine with that. Aug 21 20:45:15 hmm, maybe my N810 battery really IS fried… booted Maemo for the first time in months, and it isn't charging there either Aug 21 20:45:37 does anyone have a paper on getting N900 to work as a usb modem on windows 7? Aug 21 20:46:36 <_llll_> google joikuspot Aug 21 20:46:37 hi Aug 21 20:47:23 i need help , i follwed this link thru the maemo platform Aug 21 20:47:40 anyone here? Aug 21 20:47:58 <_llll_> you should follow the usual etiquette Aug 21 20:48:19 <_llll_> ie do not ask "is anyone here", or "can anyone help", or "does anyone know about...?" just ask what you want to ask Aug 21 20:48:24 hey guys, is it possible to run maemo5 on other architectures? Aug 21 20:48:42 s/architectures/ARM devices. Aug 21 20:49:29 LiraNuna: In principle yes. Aug 21 20:49:30 sorr6 about that.....my appologies Aug 21 20:49:33 In practrice, not really. Aug 21 20:49:45 Maemo 5 has large binary blobs. Aug 21 20:49:57 Which can'rt be recompiled on arbitrary platrforms. Aug 21 20:50:01 what about a device with similar hardware? Aug 21 20:50:14 Aug 21 20:50:34 Droid 2 with Maemo would make my pants wet Aug 21 20:50:34 I vaguely recall people trying to get it to boot on beagleboard, whihc is quite similar Aug 21 20:50:53 _llll_: I don't want a wireless hotspot running on my phone, thanks. Aug 21 20:50:53 I would not expect the phone to work Aug 21 20:53:50 delta: hmm Aug 21 20:53:58 install nokia pc suite, click on "connect"? Aug 21 20:54:13 delta, n900 as usb modem works flawlessly in ubuntu, I am not sure about windows though, sorry Aug 21 20:55:56 * timeless frowns Aug 21 20:56:02 anyone here use Skype to make 800 calls? Aug 21 20:56:07 hmm would this help delta? http://europe.nokia.com/support/download-software/pc-suites/how-to/connect-to-the-web Aug 21 20:56:23 800 calls? Aug 21 20:56:24 i'm having trouble using the dialpad to log into a certain service Aug 21 20:56:27 timeless, I don't really count, but I don't think I made 800 calls Aug 21 20:56:28 that's a lot of calls Aug 21 20:56:47 http://blogs.skype.com/en/2006/05/free_calls_to_all_landlines_an.html Aug 21 20:57:10 timeless, Update: This offer has now ended, unfortunately. However, you can still make cheap calls to the USA, or check out our subscriptions for even better value for regular callers. Aug 21 20:57:14 hrm, wrong hit Aug 21 20:57:16 lol Aug 21 20:57:21 http://blogs.skype.com/en/2005/07/free_calls_to_tollfree_phone_n.html Aug 21 20:57:25 try that one? Aug 21 20:57:29 you are timeless, I didn't know you are a timelord! Aug 21 20:57:33 thats 2005 Aug 21 20:57:57 Hey all, can you run apache server yet on the N900? Aug 21 20:58:08 How can i rectify this- when i tried to download the kmplayer my n900 prompts that@i nee this application package-xsltproc Aug 21 20:59:47 timeless, which countries have you tried using to call Aug 21 20:59:57 i've used it for usa and uk Aug 21 21:00:29 it's been around for the usa for a long time Aug 21 21:00:39 that's apparently the global announce instead of the original announce Aug 21 21:00:45 i think the uk tollfree numbers all changed to 08000 Aug 21 21:00:48 it's actually the most important skype feature Aug 21 21:01:16 e.g. i call +1800555TELL daily using skype from my n900 Aug 21 21:01:19 not that it matters, but if the system is still operational and does work Aug 21 21:01:20 typically while walking to work Aug 21 21:01:27 it does Aug 21 21:01:31 ahh k Aug 21 21:01:38 i'm not having problems w/ the system itself Aug 21 21:01:38 ow can i rectify this- when i tried to download the kmplayer my n900 prompts that i need this application package-xsltproc Aug 21 21:01:49 its the implementation on 800 only Aug 21 21:01:49 i'm having problems w/ entering numbers to a different phone target Aug 21 21:02:00 i don't pay skype for service Aug 21 21:02:09 so i don't know how it fairs otherwise :) Aug 21 21:02:18 ow can i rectify this- when i tried to download the kmplayer my n900 prompts that@i nee this application package-xsltproc Aug 21 21:02:34 in general w/ tellme i've had reasonably good handling of tone dialing Aug 21 21:02:37 hmm not sure, I dont think I ever connected skype to my 810 Aug 21 21:02:45 Carneque, i dunno about apache but you can use python's BaseHTTPServer Aug 21 21:02:56 ow can i rectify this- when i tried to download the kmplayer my n900 prompts that@i nee this application package-xsltproc Aug 21 21:03:02 or if I did, I did not maintain the details Aug 21 21:03:06 Carneque, for simple things at least :) Aug 21 21:03:12 http://maemo.org/packages/ Aug 21 21:03:19 oneil, see if package exists Aug 21 21:03:21 nox - that's what I was shooting for Aug 21 21:03:36 Make a homepage with a limited connection per day Aug 21 21:03:43 very limited... just to do it Aug 21 21:03:52 thanks lcuk Aug 21 21:04:31 anyone else doing that in the community? Aug 21 21:05:19 Is the ip address of the N900 an internal IP address? Aug 21 21:06:01 i only use it for localhost with a small hack to serve html from inside zipfiles... (to avoid trackerd/image-viewer getting mad on too many sprinkled html files...) Aug 21 21:06:24 Carneque, on 3g usually yes Aug 21 21:06:39 or at least a lot of operators use nat Aug 21 21:07:13 I'm in europe, so I think it might be more open here Aug 21 21:07:19 no here too Aug 21 21:07:49 first I have to get the phone... that's step one Aug 21 21:08:27 you could maybe do it via wifi and a portforward on a cable/adsl router... Aug 21 21:09:14 timeless, so you have your skype configured for normal use on 8x0 Aug 21 21:09:25 and its the same account you use happily on 900? Aug 21 21:09:39 lcuk, yes it was there but there so many of tem. dont know wic to download Aug 21 21:09:51 gotta go guys, thanks for the info! Aug 21 21:09:55 Will be back! Aug 21 21:10:15 oneil, the most likely chance is that you have added extra repositories to HAM Aug 21 21:10:26 and its being offered alternative variations perhaps Aug 21 21:11:04 i dont understand Aug 21 21:11:35 http://blog.ksplice.com/2010/08/3g-and-me/ Aug 21 21:11:40 re 4g Aug 21 21:11:43 oneil: usually latest (highest version nuber) for armel / fremantle is right one Aug 21 21:11:48 s/4g/3g/ Aug 21 21:11:49 timeless meant: re 3g Aug 21 21:12:26 ok Aug 21 21:12:45 that article is definitely worth a read Aug 21 21:13:00 DocScrutinizer, usually if the dependencies are coming up in the main maemo repositories but coming up as uninstallable when he wants something, its because of extra repos Aug 21 21:13:02 ooh, look, http://mxr.meego.com/ Aug 21 21:13:30 lcuk: sure, but how he got the orig pkg then? Aug 21 21:13:54 there has to be some borked rdepends in that pkg, no? Aug 21 21:14:09 <_0x47> Hey, how is it possible I have a build dependency for libsdl-mixer1.2.8, and the autobuilder complains about some missing dependency information for 1.2? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/vcmi-bin_0.82svn1767-0maemo2/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt Aug 21 21:14:16 unsure Aug 21 21:16:50 you probably have to add libsdl-mixer1.2.8-dev or something Aug 21 21:16:56 as build dependency Aug 21 21:17:00 not the library itself Aug 21 21:17:04 oneil: anyway lcuk meant you should use hildon application manager to install any app, and there add needed repositories to the catalogs Aug 21 21:17:50 jacekowski: Hi! Were you not interested in aes acceleration? Aug 21 21:18:33 oh meego uses rpm... :( Aug 21 21:18:36 timeless, thats a nice read Aug 21 21:18:56 there is a new driver for aes, http://marc.info/?l=linux-crypto-vger&m=128231189201194&w=2 and http://marc.info/?l=linux-crypto-vger&m=128231189501202&w=2 Aug 21 21:21:16 But you have to recompile the kernel for it, so I tried to merge both patches into one, which could be compiled as a module. http://pastebin.com/38rUCbcV . I don't know what's wrong with it, since it always reboots after insetion. Aug 21 21:24:53 this is what I tried: http://pastebin.com/CXfRhuNW Aug 21 21:26:32 hmm, nice one Aug 21 21:27:04 did anyone here use the front facing camera on the n900? Aug 21 21:27:35 the picture is really dark... Aug 21 21:28:21 <_0x47> anyone please? Aug 21 21:28:35 jacekowski: yes, It compiles fine, but I have no idea why it reboots, you should note that i also changed plat/cpu.h and plat/dma.h to march/cpu.h march/dma.h... maybe this is wrong Aug 21 21:28:48 Poka64, tiny, cheap sensor. Aug 21 21:29:31 _0x47, can't tell you myself, but maemo-developers may be able to provide an answer. Aug 21 21:29:36 GAN900: it useless, why did they even launch skype video call with this device.. Aug 21 21:30:10 <_0x47> GAN900: maemo-devel is kind of a dead channel, but i'll give it a try, thanks Aug 21 21:30:29 Poka64, dunno. Aug 21 21:30:36 _0x47, the mailing list. Aug 21 21:31:09 _0x47, also: here during European business hours would get you better help, too. Aug 21 21:31:23 as a hint, business hours exclude weekends :) Aug 21 21:31:52 <_0x47> GAN900: oh, i see. I need quick help, as I'm about to leave. If I get not help on IRC, I'll have to continue tomorrow. :( Thanks a lot tho! Aug 21 21:32:25 well, i would really like to store key in device itself with remote wipe capability Aug 21 21:32:37 <_0x47> I'm on holiday (and from Europe) so I pretty much lost track of business days / day/night time and that stuff :D Aug 21 21:32:41 timeless: 2005 is even older than 2006 Aug 21 21:32:56 luke-jr: no way, really? Aug 21 21:33:18 luke-jr, no its not Aug 21 21:33:20 as in http://blogs.skype.com/en/2005/07/free_calls_to_tollfree_phone_n.html Aug 21 21:33:30 if you travel forward, you only have to travel 1 less year Aug 21 21:33:30 yeah, i know Aug 21 21:34:22 time travel Aug 21 21:34:34 some interesting stuff happens here recently Aug 21 21:34:36 first they offered free calling to US free numbers Aug 21 21:34:49 later they added free calling to intl free numbers Aug 21 21:36:56 they can't offer it free forever Aug 21 21:36:58 these things have a cost Aug 21 21:40:40 luke-jr, its for calling free numbers Aug 21 21:40:46 which users actually expect to be free Aug 21 21:41:34 lcuk: they're not free to call, generally Aug 21 21:41:46 generally in my country they are Aug 21 21:41:59 so move to a civilised country :P Aug 21 21:42:22 there's a single service provider that I know of providing gratis toll-free calls to US numbers over a standard protocol Aug 21 21:42:24 are there any estimates of the power consumption of the bluetooth on the N900? the power drain page doesn't list bluetooth :( Aug 21 21:42:34 Jaffa: what sort of things are you thinking? Aug 21 21:49:46 lcuk, i have tried to download the package, th(u the application manager prompt, but it is saying the package is not compatible Aug 21 22:15:21 Funnyface, unless you're using it, I don't think it's much. Aug 21 22:34:29 MohammadAG51: ping Aug 21 22:34:37 ~seen MohammadAG51 Aug 21 22:34:38 mohammadag51 is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 141 messages. Is idling for 9h 9m 22s, last said: 'the openness of meego isn't crap, the use of rpm in it...'. Aug 21 22:35:03 * MohammadAG51 wakes up Aug 21 22:36:30 MohammadAG51: what is the exact purpose of BME on the N900? Aug 21 22:36:53 Venemo: charge the battery Aug 21 22:37:11 luke-jr: yes, I thought so, too Aug 21 22:37:14 but... Aug 21 22:37:27 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9314 (comment #29) Aug 21 22:37:28 Bug 9314: relicense N8x0 BME Aug 21 22:37:44 "Do note that forementioned bq27200 chip is supported by Linux since before 2.6.28, and only needs some minor platform glue to work, INCLUDING the "special" battery charge level and other details. I have source for a kernel module adding this glue if anyone wants it, and recently submitted a patch to mainline adding it directly to the board file." Aug 21 22:38:14 Venemo: it only supports reading, not charging Aug 21 22:38:37 (that's me, btw) Aug 21 22:38:56 actually Aug 21 22:39:03 basically this guy says that the kernel can handle this without BME, plus he has some "glue code" that makes things work Aug 21 22:39:04 it handles charging, and reading Aug 21 22:39:16 what guy? Aug 21 22:39:26 MohammadAG51: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9314 (comment #29) Aug 21 22:39:27 Bug 9314: relicense N8x0 BME Aug 21 22:39:31 name Aug 21 22:39:53 MohammadAG51: Comment #29 from Luke Dashjr (reporter) Aug 21 22:40:06 Venemo: the kernel can handle *reading* the chip Aug 21 22:40:17 charge *level*, not charging Aug 21 22:40:20 luke-jr: is that you? Aug 21 22:40:28 yes Aug 21 22:40:35 luke-jr: ah. Aug 21 22:40:52 luke-jr: and what about the next comment? Aug 21 22:41:02 luke-jr: "With N900 we can do charge&monitoring easily from userspace with sh script and i2ctools." Aug 21 22:41:09 I'm just curious. Aug 21 22:41:20 Venemo: it doesn't work as well as BME I guess Aug 21 22:41:26 Venemo: and doesn't work at all on N8x0 Aug 21 22:41:56 luke-jr: well, I'm only thinking about the N900 now Aug 21 22:42:01 DocScrutinizer, SpeedEvil and ShadowJK were (/are) working on a bme replacement Aug 21 22:42:10 Venemo: open a different bug? :P Aug 21 22:42:11 garage project: jrbme Aug 21 22:42:49 well, comment 30 claims this about the N900: Aug 21 22:42:50 I'm actually most of the time running my N900 without bme, using a set of scripts I wrote for my own use Aug 21 22:43:28 so... if the guys working on USB host mode could use his script, then they could get rid of BME alltogether Aug 21 22:43:55 sure Aug 21 22:43:56 bme isn't a blocker Aug 21 22:44:17 MohammadAG51: hm, I thought it was Aug 21 22:44:30 it is IMO Aug 21 22:44:32 not at all Aug 21 22:44:35 even with BME Aug 21 22:44:38 nope Aug 21 22:44:44 MohammadAG51: how can you charge w/ host mode? Aug 21 22:45:14 anyways, with this script could be a solution to workaround BME Aug 21 22:45:22 but what is the blocker then? Aug 21 22:45:44 MohammadAG51: where is jrbme code btw? Aug 21 22:45:47 a proper devoted kernel hacker Aug 21 22:46:00 or the lack of one Aug 21 22:46:46 re Aug 21 22:46:55 XD Aug 21 22:46:59 MohammadAG51: in particular, what is missing? Aug 21 22:47:27 a proper hack Aug 21 22:47:37 hostmode works for me Aug 21 22:47:44 most of the time Aug 21 22:47:50 luke-jr: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/jrbme/ Aug 21 22:48:09 "Asay revisits the point that the open source development model necessarily builds on a community of contributors and users, and not the mad scientist in an ivory tower." Aug 21 22:48:21 w00t_: The MTF tutorial did a really good job of describing a compelling UI app which wasn't super trivial and didn't have much code. Would be interesting, if one wanted to do cross-platform stuff, to see how you'd do the same app in "pure" Qt (as much as possible). Aug 21 22:48:21 Sounds like something Nokia and MeeGo as a whole could learn something from Aug 21 22:48:41 Venemo: nothing there Aug 21 22:48:44 w00t_: Almost like our equivalent of the old Java pet store Aug 21 22:48:47 and god damn, why do I have another 15 mod points on /.? Aug 21 22:49:13 luke-jr: hmm... Aug 21 22:50:02 MohammadAG51: what is the problem with the current hack? Aug 21 22:50:29 Venemo: it's a hack Aug 21 22:50:33 not 100% reproducable Aug 21 22:50:46 depends on timing Aug 21 22:50:53 MohammadAG51: oh. Aug 21 22:51:07 MohammadAG51: is there a description about it? Aug 21 22:51:54 MohammadAG51: where is jrbme code btw? Aug 21 22:52:20 luke-jr: well, many things are hacks. this fact alone is not a real problem Aug 21 22:52:35 luke-jr ask the devs Aug 21 22:54:04 Venemo: yes it is Aug 21 22:54:14 DocScrutinizer51: hey n00b wheres da code Aug 21 22:54:40 SpeedEvil: ShadowJK too Aug 21 22:56:02 luke-jr: why? Aug 21 22:56:27 Venemo: because it's not worth doing if you don't do it right Aug 21 22:59:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edrvCDQBQzk Nuance voice recognition on featurephone-class hardware Aug 21 22:59:09 "Imagine speaking to your phone like you ask your friend a question: “Who won the Yankees game last night?” or “What does the WD in WD40 stand for?” Then imagine your phone delivering the answer in a matter of seconds" Aug 21 22:59:13 needs open source equiv Aug 21 23:01:19 MohammadAG51: so, could you give me a description? Aug 21 23:06:59 pupnik_: yes. Aug 21 23:07:06 pupnik_: It's man-decades of work. Aug 21 23:07:18 pupnik_: Well... Aug 21 23:07:31 pupnik_: I would settle - reluctantly - for a paid API Aug 21 23:07:39 SpeedEvil, everything is man decades of work if you go at it Aug 21 23:07:44 but as with many things in like Aug 21 23:07:49 a eureka moment hits people Aug 21 23:08:17 And sometimes the eureka moment is 'this is really fucking hard, and they weren't wrong'. Aug 21 23:15:37 any recommendations or links or whatever? For 'how to playback a sound respecting profile settings' Aug 21 23:15:51 play-sound will happily blast out at max vol, no matter if profile silent or what's the vol setting :-S Aug 21 23:16:28 DocScrutinizer51, what language are you coding this in? Aug 21 23:16:38 (I don't know, but a discussion may help jog some memories Aug 21 23:17:01 shellscript for now Aug 21 23:18:38 DocScrutinizer51, I am guessing that the sort of latency from firing off MAFW using dbus would not be wanted for your usecase Aug 21 23:19:54 on a sane ALSA config you'd use virtual audio devices like 'ringtone' or 'system-notify', 'system-alert', 'media' etc Aug 21 23:19:56 DocScrutinizer51: what do you mean by 'how to playback a sound respecting profile settings'? Aug 21 23:20:51 each of these audio devices could have its own vol slider in mixers Aug 21 23:21:05 luke-jr, what's a link for patch you sent to mainline? Aug 21 23:21:53 lcuk: actually latency is a minor problem atm Aug 21 23:23:23 Venemo, take a look: http://gitorious.org/android-n900/vendor_nitdroid_n900/blobs/master/etc/asound.conf Aug 21 23:23:52 Venemo: I want to do sth similar to 'play-sound my.wav' in a script, but have it respect vol and profile-silent settings Aug 21 23:27:06 lcuk: any pointers to MAFW / dbus ? Aug 21 23:27:13 DocScrutinizer51, hmmm, you could try one of the dbus-send methods, just a min Aug 21 23:27:23 i am not sure if it will interupt playlist or something tho Aug 21 23:28:31 hmm DocScrutinizer51 alternative Aug 21 23:28:33 gstreamer.. Aug 21 23:28:35 http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/How_to_create_a_mp3_player_in_Maemo Aug 21 23:28:51 DocScrutinizer51: hm. so basically, you need some notification when the profile changes, right? Aug 21 23:29:49 Venemo: that's for sure the last possible path I'd like to follow Aug 21 23:29:58 no Venemo he wants it to be handled from what I gather Aug 21 23:30:14 lcuk, DocScrutinizer51: ah, okay. Aug 21 23:30:28 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-April/025815.html Aug 21 23:30:33 DocScrutinizer51, has some runes in there Aug 21 23:32:23 an audio app should just announce type of audio, by using right audiodev or whatever, and not care about which profile is active and what's the vol settingS for that profile Aug 21 23:50:01 what's the best taste you remember discovering as a kid? Aug 21 23:50:56 Orange creamsicle Aug 21 23:51:21 most memorable pupnik_ was some kind of kebab I had in greece with some sort of mayo on it Aug 21 23:51:30 always stuck out because we were walking through a market Aug 21 23:51:59 GAN900: is that a kind of candy? Aug 21 23:52:07 or frozen dessert Aug 22 00:02:02 GAN900, how old were you Aug 22 00:05:31 e-yes: the only public list it was CC'd to was linux-omap. Aug 22 00:06:19 * luke-jr ponders if Linux can use NOR flash to store read-only pages and XIP, and if doing so would improve device costs Aug 22 00:09:03 luke-jr: no Aug 22 00:09:10 luke-jr: Well - yes Aug 22 00:09:29 luke-jr: But NOR flash is enormously more expensive and slower typically than RAM Aug 22 00:10:07 so yes and no :P Aug 22 00:10:41 XIP is useful in principle in the very, very lowest end devices Aug 22 00:11:01 yeah, I was thinking instead of swap Aug 22 00:11:02 Say 2M ROM, 8M RAM Aug 22 00:11:07 just execute direct from the device Aug 22 00:12:15 XIP will be increasingly useful in the next couple of years. Aug 22 00:12:25 maybe 5 Aug 22 00:12:45 When it becomes inexpensive enough to integrate ROM+RAM+CPU on one due. Aug 22 00:12:49 Die Aug 22 00:12:54 For the lowest-end parts. Aug 22 00:17:13 http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=497-9039-ND - for example - but with 8M RAM Aug 22 00:18:03 luke-jr, looks more correct than matan's version Aug 22 00:18:20 e-yes: matan's version? Aug 22 00:18:55 how without patch there's no sysfs entries, right? Aug 22 00:20:06 .. Aug 22 00:20:15 damn, americans are idiots Aug 22 00:20:22 http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20014344-281.html#comments Aug 22 00:21:01 anyway, off to bed, 'later all Aug 22 00:21:11 night Aug 22 00:23:23 luke-jr, or even bq27 refuses to register ( dont remember details). bq27_matan - afair (name for patch). look into kernel-power sources (which actually is patches for quilt) Aug 22 00:24:11 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1304965/Mystery-WikiLeaks-hacker-rape-set-up.html - I would imagine similarly stupid comments on thatr Aug 22 00:24:30 e-yes: shrug, my change works for Fremantle kernel at least Aug 22 00:28:18 SpeedEvil: what's XIP? Aug 22 00:28:33 luke-jr, i will try it with nitdroid-kernel when i switch back to battery/charging/consumption problems from ril/cmt tasks Aug 22 00:29:54 Xexute In Place Aug 22 00:29:59 Xecute Aug 22 00:30:11 e-yes: what's the bq27k rant about? Aug 22 00:30:22 Basically using NOR flash instead of RAM to execute pages from Aug 22 00:30:38 the bq27x00_battery driver is a bit broken. Aug 22 00:30:54 It needs at least platform based adaption to set rs Aug 22 00:31:04 SpeedEvil: sure, as it isn't copying Openmoko driver :-P Aug 22 00:31:32 modprobe bq27k RS=22 Aug 22 00:32:20 SpeedEvil: (XIP) like on palm pilot? Aug 22 00:33:34 DocScrutinizer: I think so Aug 22 00:33:37 SpeedEvil: (XIP) or just a kernel patch to have a RAM image in storage, rather than a ELF? Aug 22 00:35:29 DocScrutinizer, what it mean - RS param? Aug 22 00:35:53 * DocScrutinizer wonders how long it takes Nokia to ship a devel dev to OM kernel maintainer who also fixed/augmented bq27000 and complemetary dumb GTA01-battery kernel module Aug 22 00:36:13 e-yes: RS == resistor series Aug 22 00:36:43 the shunt bq27200 uses to probe the actual current in/out of cell Aug 22 00:38:01 e-yes: alas this is about the only resistor in 'leaked' N900 schematica that has no specific Ohms value printed to it Aug 22 00:38:42 it's R1129/30 and R1140 iirc Aug 22 00:40:20 e-yes: basically every value you can read from bq27200 battery gauge needs to be transformed to a decent meaning by multiplicating it with a factor based on RS Aug 22 00:41:50 ...except those where the register value represents valueA/valueB and both have that factor - e.g TTE (time to empty) Aug 22 00:42:51 which represents capacity / actual-current, and both have the RS factor (not rhesus factor :-P) Aug 22 00:43:39 DocScrutinizer, what RS is assumed in mainline kernel? (i'm not seeing RS param in. where i can found it?) Aug 22 00:44:05 in mainline kernel there's nothing dealing at all with this Aug 22 00:45:21 you have no bq27k kernel module in maemo mainline Aug 22 00:45:50 one of the issues courtesy borked BME Aug 22 00:46:36 -> we don't have sysnodes for it as well Aug 22 00:46:48 same for bq24150 :-( Aug 22 00:47:51 from https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9314 I learn we may expect those for harmattan - excuse my scepticism about they are doing it right Aug 22 00:47:52 Bug 9314: relicense N8x0 BME Aug 22 00:47:55 bq27 can be loaded after BME is started. and BME is still working after that Aug 22 00:48:54 e-yes: that's amazing, as aiui loading the kernel module for bq27k will block direct I2C access Aug 22 00:49:30 ~lart bme Aug 22 00:49:30 * infobot strangles bme with a 9-pole serial cable Aug 22 00:49:56 hmm, appropriate Aug 22 00:50:40 yeah, that's why matan's patch was created in way it created:) Aug 22 00:51:20 what other mobiles phones that support Qt? Aug 22 00:51:36 Motorola Z6:) Aug 22 00:52:10 has very old qtopia -> supports Qt Aug 22 00:53:12 how do i install rightly the kmplayer for my n900 without having package problem especially the xsltproc package.this the problem i am facing right now....help Aug 22 00:54:13 e-yes: matan's patches are considered a poor implementation for a decent interface to bq27k Aug 22 00:54:51 e-yes, I meant something that I can use programs developed for maemo in it. Aug 22 00:55:53 how do i install rightly the kmplayer for my n900 without having package problem especially the xsltproc package.this the problem i am facing right now....help Aug 22 00:55:54 without recompilation and repackaging? Aug 22 00:56:01 e-yes: refer to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_sysfs#power_supply_battery_information and even that one is missing a few bits Aug 22 00:56:07 no, with it Aug 22 00:56:29 how do i install rightly the kmplayer for my n900 without having package problem especially the xsltproc package.this the problem i am facing right now....help Aug 22 00:57:05 how do i install rightly the kmplayer for my n900 without having package problem especially the xsltproc package.this the problem i am facing right now....help Aug 22 00:57:08 oneil213: please don't spam Aug 22 00:57:17 sorry Aug 22 00:57:25 i need help Aug 22 00:57:56 oneil213: we *all* have read and noticed that, FOUR times now - in last 30s Aug 22 00:58:45 sorry about my impatience Aug 22 00:59:15 just having problem installing the application Aug 22 00:59:48 DocScrutinizer, all what is missed in patch 'stolen' from mainline already Aug 22 01:00:20 i do not understand please Aug 22 01:04:24 e-yes: sorry, you lost me on that one Aug 22 01:05:17 Docscrutinizer, can you help Aug 22 01:06:21 oneil213: please consider to read this: Aug 22 01:06:30 ~question Aug 22 01:06:31 hmm... question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Aug 22 01:06:49 then come back here, and have another try Aug 22 01:07:18 ~maemo Aug 22 01:07:19 it has been said that maemo is http://maemo.nokia.com/ http://maemo.org/ http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Device_Platforms/Maemo.xhtml Aug 22 01:10:39 hey Mohammadag51 ! No new ubuntu upload today, too? Aug 22 01:14:53 ping Aug 22 01:15:01 ~ping Aug 22 01:15:02 ~pong Aug 22 01:15:24 SkyscraperN900: its 4:13 AM in jordan, he's probably sleeping Aug 22 01:19:51 http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/08/21/2256206/Real-Time-Detailed-Face-Tracking-On-a-Nokia-N900 Aug 22 01:21:19 hm Aug 22 01:21:41 xnt14 he wanted to upload last night... but theres nothing. this night, too? Aug 22 01:23:30 brb Aug 22 01:23:31 I recently downloaded the kmplayer, but i could not run it on my n900. the application manager prompts that I should install a missing package called xsltproc, I tired this but it was not compactible with my phone.anyone with a pointer on what i should do next.thanks Aug 22 01:24:59 anyone knows the specification of the n900 fm rx? what rx freqs are possible? Aug 22 01:26:57 i've read it seems to be Broadcam BCM2048? technial data sheet says it can recv fm radio from 76 to 108MHz? Aug 22 01:27:13 *Broadcom Aug 22 01:27:44 SkyscraperN900: IIRC 76-108 Aug 22 01:28:11 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Receiver Aug 22 01:28:36 why the radio app is restricted to some other value? Aug 22 01:30:10 Localisation settings Aug 22 01:30:41 is it possible to modify? Aug 22 01:31:18 i also tried to install a dependent package * librsvg2-2, but still not compatible as well Aug 22 01:31:52 any pointer? Aug 22 01:32:11 SkyscraperN900: I haven't gone into the details of the API Aug 22 01:32:16 SkyscraperN900: I suspect so Aug 22 01:32:25 But I'm not sure how easy it is Aug 22 01:37:15 which is the right xsltproc package for kmplayer on n900? Aug 22 01:37:32 /usr/bin $ sudo ./fmradio-tool 76000 speaker Aug 22 01:37:36 SpeedEvil Aug 22 01:38:23 and librsvg2-2? Aug 22 01:38:35 hm Aug 22 01:39:04 dont think it is working. wonder if theres a radio on 76mhz xd Aug 22 01:39:07 pupnik_, ice cream. Aug 22 01:39:13 lcuk, 6 or 7. Aug 22 01:41:06 echo 3 > /sys/bus/i2c/drivers/bcm2048/3-0022/region Aug 22 01:41:07 oh Aug 22 01:41:37 You probably need to do both Aug 22 01:43:54 start radio Aug 22 01:43:57 above echo Aug 22 01:44:01 echo 78000 >fm_frequency Aug 22 01:44:01 Nokia-N900-02-8:/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-0022# cat fm_frequency Aug 22 01:44:01 78000 Aug 22 01:44:14 Oh - I have v4l-ctl Aug 22 01:44:14 ah ok Aug 22 01:46:09 i cant echo 3 into region Aug 22 01:46:20 root Aug 22 01:46:27 FM radio also has to be on Aug 22 01:48:00 -sh: cannot create /sys/bus/i2c/drivers/bcm2048/3-0022/region: Permission denied Aug 22 01:48:49 http://pastebin.com/EKCh7JYZ Aug 22 01:48:50 as root Aug 22 01:49:03 you have to start fmradio first Aug 22 01:49:24 above is result of ./v4l2-ctl --all -d /dev/radio1 Aug 22 01:49:33 after the echo Aug 22 01:50:41 where to get that v412-ctl app? Aug 22 01:50:50 compile it Aug 22 01:51:25 from where? xd Aug 22 01:51:31 source Aug 22 01:52:33 http://www.mauve.plus.com/v4l2-ctl Aug 22 01:52:38 also - a binary Aug 22 01:58:13 wont download Aug 22 01:58:34 e-yes: FWIW, I agree with the reply-comment that the #ifdef should be dropped Aug 22 01:58:38 0percent Aug 22 01:59:28 e-yes: that way it will use like 17 bytes more memory, but work if someone builds bq27x00 module externally :P Aug 22 02:00:06 SkyscraperN900: Odd - seems to download here fine Aug 22 02:00:09 wget rocks xd Aug 22 02:00:12 SkyscraperN900: maybe it hadn't uploaded Aug 22 02:00:17 with wget works Aug 22 02:05:49 Frequency range : 76.0 MHz - 108.0 MHz Aug 22 02:05:59 with echo 4 > region Aug 22 02:07:38 hm but it tunes only 87500 Aug 22 02:07:43 not 76000 Aug 22 02:09:47 FMradio probaly doesn't know about region Aug 22 02:09:56 echo n >fm_frequency Aug 22 02:10:46 hm i'm trying it with fmradio-tool from usr/bin - maybe thats the prob? Aug 22 02:14:07 back Aug 22 02:14:45 no idea Aug 22 02:23:52 <_0x47> anyone still here with super 1337 packaging power? Aug 22 02:25:03 <_0x47> !tell _0x47 you're so cool! Aug 22 02:25:17 <_0x47> tell _0x47 you're even cooler! Aug 22 02:25:19 <_0x47> hm Aug 22 02:25:24 <_0x47> nm then Aug 22 02:26:14 speedevil ~ $ sudo v4l2-ctl -d /dev/radio1 -f 108.0 works while on fmradio app Aug 22 02:26:38 or any other freq between 87.5 and 108.0 Aug 22 02:26:42 but not lower Aug 22 02:27:02 getting VIDIOC_S_FREQUENCY: failed: Input/output error Aug 22 02:27:10 when trying to set 76.0 Aug 22 02:27:45 after it says 76000 when you cat min_region_frequency or whatever? Aug 22 02:28:41 cat region_bottom_frequency Aug 22 02:28:46 throws 76000 Aug 22 02:29:15 v4l2-ctl -d /dev/radio1 --all Aug 22 02:29:17 gives Aug 22 02:29:20 cat fm_frequency was showing 76000 fro me - I diddn't have a transmitter rigged up though Aug 22 02:29:28 Frequency range : 76.0 MHz - 108.0 MHz Aug 22 02:29:49 but cant tune in? Aug 22 02:30:35 With what Aug 22 02:31:03 76.0 wont work Aug 22 02:31:04 I'll try more tomorrow maybe Aug 22 02:34:18 me 2. going to bed Aug 22 02:34:25 good night an thankyou Aug 22 02:35:10 np Aug 22 02:43:29 speedevil maybe a modified http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/media/radio/radio-bcm2048.c would help? Aug 22 02:47:21 or analyse that Aug 22 02:56:08 my N900 is being retarded Aug 22 02:56:18 says there's an update for fMMS, but errors updating it **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 22 02:59:58 2010