**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 23 02:59:57 2010 Aug 23 03:00:00 I would be astonished if you could get the above out the door - the first thousand units - for a couple of million. Aug 23 03:00:07 SpeedEvil: doesn't optical zoom practically *require* a pop-out lens? Aug 23 03:00:20 yes. Aug 23 03:00:24 Well - no Aug 23 03:00:30 no idea bout C760 - not even the brand. But I will head over next room and place 2 N810 piggyback Aug 23 03:00:31 It requires a variable length optical path Aug 23 03:00:34 this is not the same Aug 23 03:01:18 SpeedEvil: let's rephrase: doesn't 5* zoom require more thickness than 2*N810? Aug 23 03:01:19 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Konica-Minolta-DiMAGE-X1-6-5-Megapixel-Digital-Camera-/130423012379?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN Aug 23 03:01:34 luke-jr: btw we been there, done that, some 12..18 months ago. With beyond-gta02 Aug 23 03:01:53 luke-jr: bottom line: no resources :-P Aug 23 03:01:57 :p Aug 23 03:02:03 The optical module in this is about 10*20*40mm or so, folded. Aug 23 03:02:50 The optical path is entirely inside the camera Aug 23 03:03:04 how well do the MMS options work on the N900? Someone loves to send me MMS messages I text with. Aug 23 03:03:11 EdLin: they don't. Aug 23 03:03:27 luke-jr: that bad, huh? Aug 23 03:03:32 use mirror and 'inline optics' Aug 23 03:03:32 you can install fMMS Aug 23 03:03:49 DocScrutinizer: wouldn't that take up even more space? Aug 23 03:03:52 microlith: fMMS will work well? Aug 23 03:04:00 dunno, don't use MMS messages at all Aug 23 03:04:05 even switch/rotate mirror for can shot direction head front/back/whatever Aug 23 03:04:07 fMMS didn't work at all when I tried it Aug 23 03:04:16 (a few days ago) Aug 23 03:04:17 luke-jr: but there can be no external moving parts, which means that the moving parts can be less robust. Aug 23 03:06:22 SpeedEvil: I can't imagine that is workable, but whatever Aug 23 03:06:38 See the above camera Aug 23 03:06:40 in the space, I mean Aug 23 03:06:50 yes - that's a problem. Aug 23 03:07:04 optical zoom takes a huge volume in the case. Aug 23 03:07:10 get me a coolpix 2500 style design :) Aug 23 03:07:26 tbh when I just grabbed that stack of 2 N810, waved it in my hand, and imagined to have that brick in a belt pouch... NAH Aug 23 03:07:57 2x N810s would be thicker than a Cxx00 Zaurus and that's a bit of a stretch as it is Aug 23 03:08:04 DocScrutinizer: who wears belts? device goes in my pocket Aug 23 03:08:12 LOL Aug 23 03:08:36 you would need to ship that device with custom cargo pants :P Aug 23 03:08:38 is that a washing machine in your pocket or are you just excited to meet me Aug 23 03:08:43 johnx: nah Aug 23 03:08:52 C760 fit just fine for me Aug 23 03:09:01 could probably be thicker tbh Aug 23 03:09:15 well, the Cxx00 is thicker still, and 2x N810s would be even worse Aug 23 03:09:35 johnx: C760 and 2*N810 are equivalent Aug 23 03:09:42 will rot in shelf Aug 23 03:09:50 * johnx gets an N810 out to test Aug 23 03:10:33 N810 = 1.2cm Aug 23 03:10:49 C760 = 2.4cm Aug 23 03:11:06 johnx: don't forget the extra-thick battery/cover Aug 23 03:11:14 johnx: you need 2 of those, you'll be surprised how much more they weigh and how much larger they are in a stack than what you thought when just extrapolating from one Aug 23 03:12:02 DocScrutinizer: just extrapolating from one, I'd have thought N810*2 was thicker than C760 Aug 23 03:12:17 visibly, I mean Aug 23 03:12:39 also, 2x depth != 2x weight Aug 23 03:12:48 both weigh about the same IMO Aug 23 03:12:57 maybe C760 is slightly heavier Aug 23 03:14:46 so while you're making this monstrosity, could you make me a modernized SL5500 phone? Aug 23 03:15:22 phones are lame Aug 23 03:15:44 johnx: N900 is close ;) Aug 23 03:16:03 bleh, wifi-only devices are lame Aug 23 03:16:06 microlith: nowhere near Aug 23 03:16:18 johnx: just use this monstrosity with a Bluetooth headset ;) Aug 23 03:16:29 no way Aug 23 03:16:35 microlith, yup. It's very close. But, I was one of those weirdos who actually liked having the hardware keyboard be portrait Aug 23 03:16:49 johnx: weirdo :p Aug 23 03:16:52 heh Aug 23 03:17:16 the one handed usage beat the hell out of the N900 Aug 23 03:17:32 I'm neither going to wear a BT headset all day and night like a freaking nerd, nor am I inclined to miss calls due to time I need to pair and 'mount' that headset Aug 23 03:17:54 DocScrutinizer: get a Bluetooth headset that sits invisibly in your ear then Aug 23 03:18:00 I, for one, am a proud nerd! Aug 23 03:18:04 blablabla Aug 23 03:18:44 SpeedEvil: you think the $800 mark is too low even considering the lack of software costs? Aug 23 03:18:52 luke-jr: yes Aug 23 03:19:15 luke-jr, when you say that, this is what I hear: Give up your stereo hearing so that you can answer calls more quickly, which consists of about 1 - 3% of any given day for me Aug 23 03:19:23 I'd suggest a decent netbook type device for you, with correctly built GPRS functionality that allows you to wear BT headset and do phonecalls Aug 23 03:19:50 (too low) you bet Aug 23 03:19:54 DocScrutinizer: netbooks are too big Aug 23 03:20:00 That's like optimizing an fs driver for the case where the media has I/O errors at the cost of the normal write speed Aug 23 03:20:16 johnx: sounds like NAND :) Aug 23 03:20:29 microlith, heh Aug 23 03:20:36 fair point :) Aug 23 03:20:42 luke-jr, PC-Z1 Aug 23 03:20:54 admittedly it's hidden behind hardware ECC and eMMC abstraction these days >_> Aug 23 03:20:56 johnx: exactly, too big Aug 23 03:21:27 so what are the dimensions on your behemoth? Aug 23 03:21:46 2*N810 :p Aug 23 03:21:56 with a 5" screen? Aug 23 03:21:59 or a 4"? Aug 23 03:22:00 same size otherwise Aug 23 03:22:09 fail Aug 23 03:22:38 too small footprint for the thickness, and for a decent kbd Aug 23 03:22:39 maybe make the screen itself slightly larger Aug 23 03:22:52 DocScrutinizer: you say this only because you never used a C760 Aug 23 03:23:28 admittedly the C760 was pretty chubby :P Aug 23 03:23:39 C760 was perfect for its time Aug 23 03:23:40 wtf is c760 Aug 23 03:23:42 ? Aug 23 03:23:47 luke-jr: To clarify point about price - I would be surprised if you could make 1000 for under 600K - parts and setup costs. Aug 23 03:24:06 luke-jr: which makes selling for 800k really, really dodgy Aug 23 03:24:08 not even for 2 mio Aug 23 03:24:17 that was neglecting design costs Aug 23 03:24:26 DocScrutinizer, Zaurus C760 Aug 23 03:24:26 yep Aug 23 03:25:02 The mechanical engineering of that slide alone looks nasty Aug 23 03:25:43 SpeedEvil: throw the slide away and just think C760 design Aug 23 03:25:52 it's good enough Aug 23 03:26:17 wait, wasn't that a portrait device? Aug 23 03:26:20 so, do you really think you have more hardware design experience than the pandora guys? Aug 23 03:26:23 DocScrutinizer: no. Aug 23 03:26:27 DocScrutinizer, nah. you're thinking 5500 Aug 23 03:26:31 http://www.superwarehouse.com/Lexmark_C760/17S0000/p/445168 Aug 23 03:26:31 johnx: I have none. ☺ Aug 23 03:26:38 Does not look pocket friendly. Aug 23 03:26:50 SpeedEvil: but you get printouts on the go! Aug 23 03:27:02 http://www.killingjoke.net/gra/zaurus_c760.jpg Aug 23 03:27:17 http://www.google.com/images?q=zaurus%20c760 Aug 23 03:27:25 uhuh, a laser printer :-P Aug 23 03:27:30 That hinge looks either hellafragile, or hella expensive Aug 23 03:27:37 SpeedEvil: it was $800 :P Aug 23 03:27:38 man, the C860 had me drooling but it was so pricy at the time Aug 23 03:27:53 microlith: C860 is the same as C760 except in colour and software :p Aug 23 03:28:07 meh, cya dudes Aug 23 03:28:10 yeah but the C760 wasn't on sale in 2003 Aug 23 03:28:13 I flashed the C860 bootloader just for the heck of it Aug 23 03:28:14 later DocScrutinizer Aug 23 03:28:15 :p Aug 23 03:28:27 luke-jr: If you are willing tro make an initial order of 50K or so, then the prices on lots of stuff goes way down. Aug 23 03:28:42 SpeedEvil: cool. Aug 23 03:28:53 but probably not so far down as to make it affordable to 50k people Aug 23 03:29:07 That's the other problem, yes. Aug 23 03:29:35 now if the price could be pushed down to say $300 or so, I could see selling a lot… Aug 23 03:29:41 but not at $800 ea Aug 23 03:30:00 heh, maybe in Japan… Aug 23 03:30:02 Before the n900 there was - probably - an exploitable gap in the medium-end 'smartphone/microlaptop' market. Aug 23 03:30:13 lose the camera, lose the rediculous slider, lose some case quality, and now you've got a pandora ... Aug 23 03:30:21 The n900 killed that market. Aug 23 03:30:23 Largely. Aug 23 03:30:31 johnx: except a Pandora is crap? :P Aug 23 03:30:42 fixed LOW amount of RAM Aug 23 03:30:46 Pandora is crap for a reason. Aug 23 03:30:51 IIRC basically no internal storage Aug 23 03:30:55 slow CPU Aug 23 03:30:56 etc Aug 23 03:31:08 it's not crap *given it's history* Aug 23 03:31:10 Take most of your specs. Aug 23 03:31:18 I'm totally amazed they pulled it off, still Aug 23 03:31:24 at least pandora is delivering Aug 23 03:31:36 That's a first cut at design specs. You then go and look at what SoCs are available. Aug 23 03:31:58 For example - seperate CPU and GPU is complete madness. Aug 23 03:31:59 johnx: by the time it shipped, it was obsolete Aug 23 03:32:11 luke-jr: but nonetheless, it shipped Aug 23 03:32:15 luke-jr, given that yours will never ship, can I call it obsolete now? Aug 23 03:32:19 as opposed to dying on the line Aug 23 03:32:19 johnx: ☺ Aug 23 03:32:32 luke-jr: you're aware you can't take advance payment from customers and manufs insist in paying the whole lot on manuf time or even before? Aug 23 03:32:51 lol Aug 23 03:32:54 tell that to Pandora Aug 23 03:32:56 XD Aug 23 03:33:10 Actually, you might have been able to do something like that, except the pandora guys kinda spoiled it for you :P Aug 23 03:33:25 don't need to - they've been there and we've been Aug 23 03:33:30 johnx: yeah Aug 23 03:33:47 after Pandora, nobody's going to pre-pay for something Aug 23 03:34:11 Unless there is a massive name involved. Aug 23 03:34:20 Forex - n900. Aug 23 03:34:21 also, keep in mind that the pandora guys already had a huge amount of positive reputation with the people they were asking for money from Aug 23 03:34:35 Pandora was gpx2? Aug 23 03:34:39 people Aug 23 03:34:46 and minimum reasonable prod lot size is 10k Aug 23 03:34:48 er, it was from the people who *re-sold* the gp2x Aug 23 03:34:54 ah Aug 23 03:35:40 anyhow, I'd be glad to "sell" my ideas to a big company in exchange only for the product :P Aug 23 03:35:58 lol Aug 23 03:36:00 There is nothing innovative there to sell IMO. Aug 23 03:36:09 <.< Aug 23 03:36:10 exactly Aug 23 03:36:12 It's a shopping list of obviously nice features. Aug 23 03:36:33 That's not a sensible design unless it's fleshed out. Aug 23 03:36:45 And you can't do that easily from where you are. Aug 23 03:36:58 and any huge manuf will tell ya gtfo we got our own shopping lists Aug 23 03:37:01 For example - you can't get docs to choose between mobile chipsets. Aug 23 03:37:19 obviously no existing mobile chipsets can fit the bill Aug 23 03:37:34 unless Qualcomm opens that r300-based GPU Aug 23 03:37:35 SpeedEvil, it's ok. his choice is pretty much the OMAP34xx anyways :) Aug 23 03:37:44 johnx: Sure. Aug 23 03:37:49 johnx: OMAP34xx couldn't come close Aug 23 03:37:58 OMAP4 maybe, but not unless PowerVR gets opened Aug 23 03:38:03 or 35xx or whatever one is made to be sold in "small" quanitities Aug 23 03:38:04 john: but - if the above came out in 2 years time - it's gonna look vrery slow Aug 23 03:38:23 SpeedEvil, it looks slow today :) but I don't think he has much choice Aug 23 03:38:33 *yawn* and l8r Aug 23 03:38:39 wave Aug 23 03:38:41 johnx: dual core 1 GHz is plenty for most people Aug 23 03:38:44 'night DocScrutinizer :) Aug 23 03:38:59 and some website said it's faster than Atoms :p Aug 23 03:39:09 luke-jr, yeah, but you cant buy that chipset in small enough quantity Aug 23 03:39:13 Saying 'dual core 1ghz' doesn't make one magically appear Aug 23 03:39:29 SpeedEvil: there's a couple already Aug 23 03:39:43 Qualcomm and TI at least have one Aug 23 03:39:52 Orderable in quantities of 10K? Aug 23 03:39:56 nfc Aug 23 03:40:09 irrelevant to whatever big company might make it Aug 23 03:40:24 Sure. Aug 23 03:40:36 Your best bet is probably to wander round china. Aug 23 03:40:58 well then I'll just use a Loongson MIPS SoC Aug 23 03:40:59 <.< Aug 23 03:41:11 mmm, performance 10 years behind the times! Aug 23 03:41:25 :p Aug 23 03:41:43 well it maybe be slow, but at least it has poor power management! Aug 23 03:41:50 errr...wait Aug 23 03:42:14 SpeedEvil: you've got plenty of barriers for *me* to ever make it… but I never intended to make it Aug 23 03:42:21 I just want some big company to make it Aug 23 03:42:23 why won't they? Aug 23 03:42:42 because they have to report quarterly profits Aug 23 03:42:51 Because your shopping list of features is uninteresting. Aug 23 03:42:52 luke-jr, step in line and prepare to pre-order the Nokia N9, citizen-consumer Aug 23 03:43:04 Much like I want a 4:3 monitor, and a new 4:3 laptop Aug 23 03:43:07 johnx: why? looks useless Aug 23 03:43:19 luke-jr, because it will actually come to market Aug 23 03:43:24 Uninteresting to the corporate world that is. Aug 23 03:43:45 SpeedEvil: corporate world doesn't use over half the list of replaced devices? Aug 23 03:44:34 or you mean just from the standpoint that they can make more profit from cheaper devices? Aug 23 03:44:42 yes Aug 23 03:45:05 and they're too buried in money to think they might want to do something for their own personal use? Aug 23 03:45:20 Real men don't use computers. Aug 23 03:45:22 yet another bug in capitalism Aug 23 03:45:27 Real men have people to do that for them. Aug 23 03:45:48 any news on meego on n900? Aug 23 03:45:48 they got secretaries to do that kinda tedious boring shit for them Aug 23 03:45:55 SpeedEvil: :-D Aug 23 03:46:35 Extreme platforms come from basically either startups that can blow shitloads of VC money and then typically fold. Aug 23 03:47:04 Or from large makers that can offer a 'premium' line alongside their regular line at 5-10* the price Aug 23 03:47:59 or from large companies doing experiments that are designed to attract a certain kind of user, with the hope of possibly being made profitable later Aug 23 03:48:10 And can plow back some of the money from the lower lines into subsidising dev of the premium -as the technolog from it will slowly filter down into the main lines over the years Aug 23 03:48:14 (aka 770 / N8x0) Aug 23 03:48:28 yes Aug 23 03:48:41 johnx: but that's the low end of "extreme platforms" :P Aug 23 03:49:16 and then there are total geeks who sneak into high positions in companies and create Linux-based pocket dictionaries :> Aug 23 03:49:18 aka zaurus Aug 23 03:50:00 kinda explains why Sharp killed it Aug 23 03:50:01 ☹ Aug 23 03:50:08 will there be PR 1.3 ? Aug 23 03:50:18 N900foreva: if you go to sleep, you might dream it Aug 23 03:50:58 Okaaaaaay. Aug 23 03:51:01 N900foreva, there was going to be, but they said if one more person asked about it, they'd cancel it. So you just spoiled it for everyone Aug 23 03:51:01 ok...so n900 is oficially abandonware then Aug 23 03:51:04 http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087¤t-category-id=3B10ECA8EB78454180D484668504D02E Aug 23 03:51:10 N900foreva, people are working on Meego Aug 23 03:51:16 Maemo 5 is abandonware Aug 23 03:51:19 Someone inhaling a little deeply there I think. Aug 23 03:52:01 but there will be no meego for n900 Aug 23 03:52:24 not a Nokia Official release Aug 23 03:52:26 N900foreva: yes there will Aug 23 03:52:27 SpeedEvil, terrifyingly, I could actually see that being used for pitching products Aug 23 03:52:34 but unofficially, yes Aug 23 03:52:46 N900foreva, why won't there be? Aug 23 03:52:57 N900foreva: please stop stating FUD and nonsense as facts Aug 23 03:52:58 how good will it be...this unoficial shit? Aug 23 03:53:14 N900foreva, help us and it might be really good Aug 23 03:53:49 did you guys see this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioNjJzNUZ4A&feature=player_embedded#! Aug 23 03:54:05 its in chinese or some other shit but kinda interesting Aug 23 03:54:25 * DocScrutinizer wonders what a troll like that one wants from meego, while calling 'nonofficial' shit :-S Aug 23 03:54:29 N900foreva: Nokia is paying people to make MeeGo work on N900 Aug 23 03:54:59 there's nothing better than proprietary supported FOSS - or what? Aug 23 03:55:04 in that chinese video meego is really slow.. Aug 23 03:55:31 N900foreva, that Aug 23 03:55:45 that is generally the way pre-alpha software looks Aug 23 03:55:58 i know,,,,just sayin Aug 23 03:56:45 'just saying' is remarkably close to "just trolling for fun" Aug 23 03:57:20 DocScrutinizer: open your mind my friend... it doesnt hurt to liesten to others Aug 23 03:57:36 as long as there's something to listen to ... Aug 23 03:57:48 I hurts my nerves to listen (and monitor) all the noise in this tiny channel Aug 23 03:58:28 N900foreva: general policy here is we aren't interested in noise Aug 23 03:58:34 DocScutinizer: if you dont like the openess of the internet may I suggest taking on a different hobby? Aug 23 03:58:43 and opinions are like assholes, everybody got one Aug 23 03:59:03 N900foreva, if you want to be annoying, start your own channel Aug 23 03:59:10 N900foreva: may I suggest to you to respect channel policy Aug 23 03:59:18 am I not Doc? Aug 23 04:00:16 to use your nice wording: just saying it smells like trolling Aug 23 04:00:49 and I got some reputation over the last few weeks to hate trolling Aug 23 04:01:03 i like trolls with pink hair Aug 23 04:01:13 thats too bad... sometimes trollers have some valid points... Aug 23 04:01:23 we aren't interested Aug 23 04:01:32 DocScrutinizer: who is "we" ? Aug 23 04:01:37 rarely does a troll have a -new- or -insightful- point Aug 23 04:01:38 the channel Aug 23 04:01:44 N900foreva, him and me Aug 23 04:01:59 we? Aug 23 04:02:00 mostly they just hammer on some old-hat thing or get rude Aug 23 04:02:28 DocScrutinizer: so you want this channel to be a love fest? Aug 23 04:03:00 N900foreva: putting some thought in your statements (and reading up on the subject at hand) helps enormously :) Aug 23 04:03:15 the problem with trolling, is that even if a troll has a valid point, their way of expressing it is usually so distracting and divisive that nothing useful comes out of the discussion (argument) Aug 23 04:03:34 N900foreva: I explained to you about general chammel policy and you can read the topic. I'm not going to continue this nonsense conversation Aug 23 04:03:40 guys... dont you think...and please dont take it the wrong way... dont you think you should get off your high horse sometimes? Aug 23 04:03:53 N900foreva, about what? Aug 23 04:04:39 is it absurd to expect that being logged into skype on the n900 would not have the ability to reduce the battery life by ~75%? Aug 23 04:04:55 its interesting how some people are totaly disgusted with this community....especially TMO Aug 23 04:05:07 ColdFyre: yes Aug 23 04:05:12 N900foreva, You mean why don't we all just go around complaining about the lack of PR1.3 and bitching about the lack of an official Meego for the N900? Aug 23 04:05:16 yeah, that sounds productive Aug 23 04:05:22 why didn't I think of that? Aug 23 04:05:27 ColdFyre: forget skype on n900.... it eats battery like hell... Aug 23 04:05:32 ColdFyre: skype is p2p Aug 23 04:05:50 ColdFyre: 3G modems _suck_ power when asked to do constant activity. Aug 23 04:06:10 stupid question, would the number of contacts make a difference? Aug 23 04:06:17 my n900 lasts about 6 hours....thats without skype Aug 23 04:06:32 is the n900 ipv6 enabled ? Aug 23 04:06:35 battery life isnt n900's strongest suite Aug 23 04:06:38 waitwaitwaitwaitwait Aug 23 04:06:38 and SpeedEvil oddly i get the same battery life with skype using gsm/3g/wifi Aug 23 04:07:48 johnx, it's certainly ones right as a consumer, though. Aug 23 04:07:53 ColdFyre: number of contacts does not matter....skype is simply badly implemented on the n900 Aug 23 04:08:29 N900foreva sounds friggin like n900lova n900hater, dunno what other nicks he burned with a ban Aug 23 04:08:30 GAN900, ah, I must have stumbled into the consumers' channel. Could you direct me to the hackers' channel? Aug 23 04:08:36 :> Aug 23 04:08:41 how could it be badly implemented? Aug 23 04:08:55 ColdFyre: dont know mate Aug 23 04:09:05 Just trying to help you Aug 23 04:09:24 But, you're not. Aug 23 04:09:47 Saying 'it doesn't work because it doesn't work' doesn't help anyone. Aug 23 04:10:30 disco_stuIPV6: there's an experimental IPv6 stack for N900 somewhere Aug 23 04:10:30 ColdFyre: i dont know what to tell you mate... all i know is skype sucks battery on my n900... the fanbois here might disagree and crucify me....just expressing my own experience Aug 23 04:11:19 I don't think anyone disagrees that skype drinks battery life out of the N900 Aug 23 04:11:23 3G is a huge battery eater, just having skype active hasn't impacted my device's life on 2.5G Aug 23 04:11:29 I wonder what the experience is on other devices ... Aug 23 04:11:32 i dont see a difference between wlan and 3g to be honest Aug 23 04:12:32 N900foreva: warning for offense against general channel members (fanbois) Aug 23 04:13:30 Doc: i said "might" and "Some"....thats an offense? Are you denying there are N900 supporters in this channel? Aug 23 04:14:10 N900foreva: why is it that everyone with a criticizm agains the N900 feels a need to insult or attack even -some- members of the N900 userbase? Aug 23 04:14:20 criticism* Aug 23 04:14:35 huh? Aug 23 04:14:50 just go read the forums, you'll see Aug 23 04:14:57 ok Aug 23 04:15:10 I'm more and more convinced N900foreva == n900lova Aug 23 04:15:14 i gave up on TM) Aug 23 04:15:19 TMO Aug 23 04:15:38 N900foreva, so now you're trying to bring this channel to TMO's level? Aug 23 04:15:53 no... Aug 23 04:17:02 ever since nokia moved on to intel and meego this community has been in disarray and there are some very edgy individuals...which is understandable Aug 23 04:17:23 N900foreva, yes. there have been edgy individuals and more and more trolls Aug 23 04:17:45 define a "troll" folks....I'm listening Aug 23 04:18:00 someone who purposefully tries to stir up trouble Aug 23 04:18:20 johnx: specifics please Aug 23 04:18:32 he defined a troll Aug 23 04:18:41 everything else is just methods Aug 23 04:18:51 "the fanbois here might disagree and crucify me.... Aug 23 04:18:55 " Aug 23 04:19:05 that's kinda an engadget comment Aug 23 04:19:11 trouble, as in, disagreement, reprisal, etc Aug 23 04:19:33 "stir up trouble".... by having a preference or opinion different from yours? dont you think you learn and advance by listening to others? isnt that how humanity advances? Aug 23 04:19:47 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=n900lova Aug 23 04:20:13 Usually trolls have nothing new to say, but manage to phrase it in the way most likely to annoy other people and 'push their buttons' Aug 23 04:20:26 DocScrutinizer: what are you trying to prove mr Sherlock Holmes? Aug 23 04:20:45 N900lover was not me Aug 23 04:21:35 ok...folks...im not trying to cause trouble... i want an intelligent discussion.... Aug 23 04:22:54 drop stuff like "it's in chinese or some other shit" and we're on teh way to a nicer discussion Aug 23 04:23:31 N900foreva, about what? Aug 23 04:24:05 everything Aug 23 04:24:43 N900foreva, so you're here to try and get involved in maemo/meego development? Aug 23 04:24:57 no...been there, done that Aug 23 04:25:53 Well, if you're after insider info on the future of Maemo/Meego on the N900, the first place to look probably *is* t.m.o Aug 23 04:26:25 [N900lova] ok... i jus wanna have a discussion...no harm intended peeps Aug 23 04:26:52 ok...folks...im not trying to cause trouble... i want an intelligent discussion.... Aug 23 04:26:54 huh? Aug 23 04:27:41 guys....why cant you have some fun sometimes and let loose? isnt the world too serious as it is? DocScrutinizer: I am looking at you too Aug 23 04:29:34 "let loose"? Now it's your turn to define what that means. Do you want someone to play checkers against or ... ? Aug 23 04:29:54 nah....just joke and poke fun Aug 23 04:30:47 I don't hear anyone laughing Aug 23 04:31:06 that's what i mean....maybe we should be laughing more often? Aug 23 04:31:09 * johnx is waiting for the joke :) Aug 23 04:34:00 You know why they call weight "weight"? Because you have to wait so long before it changes! Good joke? Aug 23 04:34:34 lol Aug 23 04:35:40 edlin, I think it would be made even better if you explained it! Aug 23 04:36:01 flux: say "wait" and "weight" aloud, hopefully you'll get it. Aug 23 04:36:03 any joke can be enhanced by explaining it in excruciating detail Aug 23 04:36:11 OH WAI, right! hah. haa. Aug 23 04:36:22 flux: the more times you tell a joke, the funnier it gets. Aug 23 04:36:40 flux, it might also be good to include a brief history of the joke's origins Aug 23 04:36:52 the origins? Me. Aug 23 04:37:12 maybe throw in some notes on the etymology of the words that form the pun Aug 23 04:37:18 homophones are tricky Aug 23 04:37:26 I think you could probably get a 50 minute lecture out of that one Aug 23 04:37:40 spinningcompass: a homophone is a pink phone owned by a male. Aug 23 04:38:00 EdLin: You're thinking of an iPhone. Aug 23 04:38:15 spinningcompass: I knew someone would say that. :P Aug 23 04:38:23 * spinningcompass hits a cymbal Aug 23 04:38:33 goodnight folks Aug 23 04:38:43 'night N900foreva Aug 23 04:38:47 come back for more jokes :) Aug 23 04:38:57 night Aug 23 04:39:23 night Aug 23 04:40:55 note that he used the web gateway, probably to avoid an ip ban. Aug 23 04:41:58 DocScrutinizer, was trying to figure out how to do that :) Aug 23 04:42:08 <- IRC n00b Aug 23 04:42:11 johnx: I knew my jokes would make him leave. :) Aug 23 04:42:41 /mode #maemo -o johnx Aug 23 04:42:44 they're known to clear out entire rooms of people. Aug 23 04:42:47 I bet he's sitting ther thinking. "Jeez. They really *are* a bunch of boring nerds O_o" :) Aug 23 04:42:59 DocScrutinizer, thanks :) Aug 23 04:43:12 johnx: some clients can just use /deop Aug 23 04:43:33 /deop EdLin Aug 23 04:44:04 just /opm here ;-) Aug 23 04:44:09 and /dopm Aug 23 04:44:21 DocScrutinizer: which client, irssi? Aug 23 04:44:23 If I had to ban him, I'd have had to look up the proper form for the pattern :D Aug 23 04:44:29 custom command, defined in Konversation Aug 23 04:45:15 /kickban n900foreva*!*@* Aug 23 04:45:22 DocScrutinizer: oh, I should write that one, except I'm only an op on one channel, and an ircop on a trouble-free small network, so not worth the effort. Aug 23 04:45:41 ah, right, since he's on the web gateway :) I probably would have accidentally banned the web gateway ... Aug 23 04:45:52 lol Aug 23 04:46:05 no worries, we had to do that several times Aug 23 04:47:45 what's that prog called which identifies authors by analyzing the diction and used words? Aug 23 04:48:04 DocScrutinizer: are there any IRC clients for the latest Maemo that use the normal interface? I have xchat on my n810 but it's basically the normal xchat shrunk to a small screen. Aug 23 04:48:34 what's 'normal interface' for you? Aug 23 04:48:46 hildonized? Aug 23 04:48:50 DocScrutinizer: yeah Aug 23 04:49:32 hmm, pidgin seems fully hildonnized but I hate it. xchat for fremantle is rather nice, though not really hildonized Aug 23 04:50:14 if not, maybe that would be a good first project for me on the n900. Though I've never written an irc client before. That is, if I manage to save pennies to get an n900 as I've planned. Aug 23 04:50:48 might be best to just properly hildonize xchat Aug 23 04:50:52 the only things I'm missing in n900 xchat is an easy way to zoom fontsize (like in xterm), and finger friendly scrolling Aug 23 04:50:57 or possibly clean up the interface to some Qt IRC client Aug 23 04:51:17 johnx: yeah, hildonizing xchat would be a good idea too. Aug 23 04:51:34 best not to reinvent the wheel :) Aug 23 04:51:44 * johnx goes back to reinventing the wheel Aug 23 04:51:53 ;-P Aug 23 04:52:00 it's not really so painful using xchat on the n810, come to think of it, just inelegant. Aug 23 04:52:45 EdLin: on n900 i'm really quite happy with it, since I mapped sh-up/down to scroll Aug 23 04:52:53 nice Aug 23 04:53:01 scrolling is the worst part Aug 23 04:53:23 on the N800 I used that theme that made all the scroll bars huge Aug 23 04:53:29 makes a big difference in usability Aug 23 04:55:12 N800 was a 'bit' stylus optimized :) Aug 23 04:55:16 johnx: do you remember what the theme is called? It's probably on the n810 too. Aug 23 04:55:39 sandst1, I bought mine open box. Never had a stylus until 2009-ish and I had it since a couple weeks after launch Aug 23 04:55:48 EdLin, let me find it. one sec Aug 23 04:56:27 johnx: hildonize ksirc :) Aug 23 04:56:31 well, N8x0 had a menu button - something N900 is painfully missing Aug 23 04:56:51 yeah. that was awfully nice Aug 23 04:56:56 I used camkeyd for a while Aug 23 04:56:57 DocScrutinizer: I love all of the buttons on my n810. :) Aug 23 04:57:40 Nokia MMI designers thoroughly spoiled that one for N900 Aug 23 04:57:49 how very odd, for some reason the time and date of my N800 had reset it self to 25 april 2008 Aug 23 04:58:00 lol Aug 23 04:58:22 at around 22:something Aug 23 04:58:46 removed battery? Aug 23 04:59:06 EdLin, just remembered. It was called echowb. I think it's on t.m.o Aug 23 04:59:19 johnx: thanks Aug 23 04:59:45 t_s_o: you should check hwclock Aug 23 04:59:49 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=157491 Aug 23 05:00:03 see if it's system time or RTC that got 'reset' Aug 23 05:00:41 btw: BUG - maemo fremantle writes back system time to RTC on shutdown Aug 23 05:01:56 wtf is every system maintainer convinced sysclock is better than RTC? Aug 23 05:02:41 err, if you run ntpd, doesn't that change get made to sysclock Aug 23 05:02:55 there's just one moment where I'd consider systime better than RTC time, that's when systime is adjusted by NTP, GPS or even user interaction Aug 23 05:03:20 so write it back then, and then skip the write-back at shutdown? Aug 23 05:03:23 I'd buy that Aug 23 05:03:27 the very moment it actually gets adjusted Aug 23 05:03:37 johnx: exactly Aug 23 05:03:48 johnx: that's what I edit all my machines to do Aug 23 05:03:54 rtc seems to still follow utc or whatever its called Aug 23 05:04:08 t_s_o, as is right and proper Aug 23 05:04:08 t_s_o: nod Aug 23 05:04:30 t_s_o: so just do a `hwclock --hctosys` Aug 23 05:05:05 if i had that installed ;) Aug 23 05:05:10 t_s_o: and thanks for confirming my point as elaborated above :-D Aug 23 05:05:51 wow, I won UK£1M thanks to Nokia ;) http://pastebin.com/DVdAqYhe Aug 23 05:06:17 umm, yeah Aug 23 05:06:27 i do wonder tho what caused the reset in the first place Aug 23 05:06:46 runaway process messing up system time Aug 23 05:06:54 possibly Aug 23 05:07:07 obviously a process with root permissions Aug 23 05:07:49 i have also seen the first couple of icons in the statusbar go missing from what appears to be a graphical "glitch", not sure if its related or not... Aug 23 05:17:55 bah, why is it that mobile seems to have turn google crazy? not only can the archos 5 not have market because its not a phone, to access the free apps on market one need a gmail account, one once set can only be changed with a full reset of the device its set on Aug 23 05:18:51 i sure hope there will be some 4-5" screen size non-phone devices using meego, or the world will have become a less interesting place Aug 23 05:19:10 i have a 7" non-phone device using meego Aug 23 05:19:10 :P Aug 23 05:19:17 (my joggler) Aug 23 05:19:31 possibly the culture of the company they absorbed that had written android? Aug 23 05:23:26 Stskeeps: while interesting, its still a x86 device, not a arm device (sorry that i didnt include that detail earlier) Aug 23 05:23:37 t_s_o: admittedly Aug 23 05:23:42 i like to be arch agnostic Aug 23 05:24:03 johnx: or at least its leaders. android seems to be danger 2.0 in a way Aug 23 05:24:20 if only the arch would be agnostic for the OS :-D Aug 23 05:24:31 tho i guess google is also trying to please the carriers so that they will accept android based products into their lineups Aug 23 05:25:04 Stskeeps: sure, i'm just kinda tired of x86, thats all. One x86 based product seems to be other alike. Aug 23 05:25:15 Stskeeps, most agnostics are really just atheists who don't feel like arguing :> Aug 23 05:25:27 that too Aug 23 05:27:07 maemo 6 release date for the n900 is sept 13 o_o Aug 23 05:27:18 maemo 6? Aug 23 05:27:21 ColdFyre, wat? Aug 23 05:27:37 2011 Aug 23 05:27:37 ColdFyre: [citation needed] Aug 23 05:28:35 another issue is that i would love to see arm act as a open field, rather then tied to the whims of intel and microsoft. But instead it seems to become the whims of carriers and google... Aug 23 05:28:59 things are improving in arm field, at least Aug 23 05:29:17 t_s_o, to be fair, I'm pretty confident that in the long run android will have a positive effect on driver support in the linux kernel Aug 23 05:29:24 even if things seem rocky right now Aug 23 05:29:31 well, linaro brings hope, but how long will it take, and how much more ingranined will android have become by then Aug 23 05:29:33 imagine if xeons were made low enough power to use in mobile devices Aug 23 05:29:53 * Trizt likes to see some Power 7 based devices Aug 23 05:30:14 johnx: not as long as google seems to pay zero attention to the decisions related to the main kernel tree Aug 23 05:30:45 * raster tries to imagine his old dual xeon 450 from 1999 with its heatsinks 5x the tickness of the n900 Aug 23 05:30:53 Trizt: or perhaps more mips, like that nanonote? Aug 23 05:31:44 I'm a more of a PowerPC/Power kind of person Aug 23 05:31:47 ColdFyre, they'd be called atoms Aug 23 05:32:03 steampunk mobile devices, a 80286 smartphone Aug 23 05:32:03 :P Aug 23 05:32:42 johnx: complete with a nuclear fission mode? Aug 23 05:33:20 and each heatsink EACH was 5x the thicnkess Aug 23 05:33:29 xeon itself was 1-2x thicker Aug 23 05:33:30 and 2 of them Aug 23 05:33:34 :) Aug 23 05:34:17 t_s_o: linaro is doing positive things Aug 23 05:34:37 tho intel (and meego) likely wont like it Aug 23 05:35:02 time will tell, but in the meantime i'm bored (and perhaps a bit sleepy) Aug 23 05:35:10 raster: what won't we like? Aug 23 05:35:48 besides the fact linaro is a rather uncertain being, they seem to have their heads screwed okay on Aug 23 05:35:56 well linaro is in a way getting the arm worlds act together Aug 23 05:35:57 .. except for basing anything production on ubuntu ;) Aug 23 05:36:02 eg devidetree for kernel Aug 23 05:36:04 and? we have meego arm as well Aug 23 05:36:06 universal arm soc kernels Aug 23 05:36:15 better toolchains and so on Aug 23 05:36:27 yes Aug 23 05:36:27 better toolchains - work in gcc? Aug 23 05:36:29 thats a necessity Aug 23 05:36:31 not a desire Aug 23 05:36:41 itel are into meego for the aim oif pushing atom Aug 23 05:36:55 probably, and people are welcome to contribute to meegoa rm Aug 23 05:37:05 and linaro is trying to get the linux arm shit together specifically to fight atom Aug 23 05:37:36 what better way to fight than to make ARM as easy as x86 to develop for? Aug 23 05:37:36 :P Aug 23 05:37:43 and sugar-coating either meego or linaro as anythgin else is just avoding the truth Aug 23 05:37:44 :) Aug 23 05:37:45 raster; do they have a money rich backup? Aug 23 05:38:10 Stskeeps: thats kind of the idea Aug 23 05:38:24 but on the other side4 linaro is bound deeply to canonical and cubuntu Aug 23 05:38:34 that one always wondered me a bit Aug 23 05:38:34 (though thats not really that widely publicised) Aug 23 05:38:39 frankly, if they defined linaro as 'organisation ARM SoC can push money into to have people contribute to open source projects upstream Aug 23 05:38:45 then it'd be a lot easier to understand Aug 23 05:38:46 which also makes it a direct competitor to meego too Aug 23 05:38:51 kinda like lobbying through code Aug 23 05:39:06 so both on the hw platform and the distro platform its "all out war" Aug 23 05:39:15 the only bits they agree on are core os infra Aug 23 05:39:24 some war Aug 23 05:39:27 (linxu kernel in generla, glibc, x11, dbus etc.) Aug 23 05:39:27 ARM is clearly the winner Aug 23 05:39:38 though I guess Intel has 3D accel Aug 23 05:39:45 everything else is pretty much diametrically opposed :( Aug 23 05:39:54 raster: i am worried that their focus on ubuntu might be their fail too Aug 23 05:40:02 until nvidia gets tegra2 into actual production, if ever Aug 23 05:40:05 i mean, why focus on packaging -at all-? Aug 23 05:40:06 :P Aug 23 05:40:19 focus on providing drivers for different targets, meego, ubuntu, android Aug 23 05:40:25 t_s_o: nVidia doesn't seem interested in making a real effort afaik Aug 23 05:40:30 Trizt: linaro.org - it has moneyed backing Aug 23 05:40:51 luke-jr: what 3d accel? intel gfx? hahahahahhaha Aug 23 05:40:58 and being the central provider for these things Aug 23 05:41:01 raster: better than nothing Aug 23 05:41:03 luke-jr: right now, everything not related to x86 and windows seems to be basically smoke and mirrors to get intel or microsoft to "behave" Aug 23 05:41:04 (i965, and friends) Aug 23 05:41:11 luke-jr: thats not embedded by a long shot Aug 23 05:41:15 t_s_o: uh? Aug 23 05:41:31 intel license imgtec for atom Aug 23 05:41:37 because tyhey dont have anything of their own Aug 23 05:41:38 ok, so nobody really has 3D Aug 23 05:41:38 I wonder what'd have been the effecrt if intel hadn't ditched strongarm Aug 23 05:41:41 not for embedded Aug 23 05:41:52 raster: how do you see the linaro effort from your project pov? Aug 23 05:41:54 there are 3 gpu's i know of Aug 23 05:41:59 so ARM has already won Aug 23 05:42:04 luke-jr: basically, tegra2 is nvidia hinting to intel that they can make a rival platform if intel do not relent on the ion issue. While meego is intel going "hey microsoft, wanna support atom?) Aug 23 05:42:05 " Aug 23 05:42:06 cuz Atom sucks Aug 23 05:42:16 imgtec (most of them - mbc/sgx), arm (mali series) and the former ati gpu (qualcomm's gpu now) Aug 23 05:42:26 the otehr day i saw some amd one on an imx51 Aug 23 05:42:29 i dont knwo what that is tho Aug 23 05:42:36 so i'll not comment until i know more Aug 23 05:42:37 meego != intel, just for what it's worth Aug 23 05:42:38 :P Aug 23 05:42:38 raster: i.MX51 is Qualcomm's Aug 23 05:42:50 which is some variant of Radeon r300 Aug 23 05:42:51 but its performance was so poor - i suspect it was the same as qualcomm's on the snapdragon Aug 23 05:43:01 intel might be agressive, but they're not blocking arm in meego Aug 23 05:43:05 Stskeeps: i will belive it when i see a official nokia meego firmware ready to install on the n900 for ordinary users Aug 23 05:43:23 t_s_o: uhm, wtf does that have to do with meego.com? Aug 23 05:43:28 Stskeeps: tyhere more to be done than just drive3rs. Aug 23 05:43:33 theres integration and packaging Aug 23 05:43:39 thing slike just fixing up booting for example Aug 23 05:43:50 t_s_o: there would be if Nokia wasn't blocking it Aug 23 05:43:51 frankly things li4ek systemd seem the right way to go Aug 23 05:43:57 and thats really invasive into a distro etc. Aug 23 05:44:08 t_s_o: nokia has decided not to make a official firmware, but this doesn't mean serious resources aren't going into meego ARM. Aug 23 05:44:19 oh yeah Aug 23 05:44:23 forgot about tegra2 Aug 23 05:44:29 right now tho its a bit of an outlier Aug 23 05:44:42 t_s_o: Nokia is fighting opening things Aug 23 05:44:44 as its totally bound to nvidia's arm soc that has dropped things like neon Aug 23 05:44:48 and its also HUGE Aug 23 05:44:54 and yet there are zero arm releases but multiple x86 releases (specifically atom related releases, so no dice on older non-intel hardware, but thats a side-story) Aug 23 05:44:56 no way that can go in its current packaging into a phone Aug 23 05:45:01 raster: boo Aug 23 05:45:27 so right now outwards meego looks like moblin with a fresh coat of paint Aug 23 05:45:39 Stskeeps: as for linaro - i like the idea. frankly until nokia decided to get in bed with meego it would have been a big plus for maemo Aug 23 05:45:49 t_s_o: zero, what? Aug 23 05:45:55 but as sucvh now meego and linaro are diametrically opposed distros Aug 23 05:45:57 :( Aug 23 05:46:06 meh Aug 23 05:46:08 just use Gentoo Aug 23 05:46:12 lets see how it all turns out Aug 23 05:46:21 As long as it supports PyQt, I'm happy. Aug 23 05:46:28 DocScrutinizer: docz! Aug 23 05:46:36 raster: i think there's a lot of collaboration on ARM side to be made, personally Aug 23 05:46:46 raster: oh, funny question Aug 23 05:47:22 raster: what is your opinion of what GLESv2 applications should link against on ARM? /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so or /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so.2 ? Aug 23 05:47:47 second one is acceptable in normal packaging guidelines Aug 23 05:47:54 … Aug 23 05:48:10 source code binds to the .so, binaries link with the specific version Aug 23 05:48:17 the .2 signifies binary compatibility Aug 23 05:48:57 luke-jr: except the .so only appears in -devel packages Aug 23 05:49:18 makes sense Aug 23 05:49:35 kinda Aug 23 05:49:36 so the files include a link to .2 Aug 23 05:49:43 … Aug 23 05:49:54 Stskeeps: oh in general i think so (collaboration) Aug 23 05:50:09 Stskeeps: compiler/linker makes the change from .so to .so.2 Aug 23 05:50:16 luke-jr: because of SONAME Aug 23 05:50:18 but in the end the business reality is that neither side is going to want to fund something that doesnt better their own cause (or is neutral) Aug 23 05:50:22 compile scripts just refer to .so Aug 23 05:50:25 so business-wise there is a clash coming Aug 23 05:50:31 the question is - how is it going to be dealt with Aug 23 05:50:34 luke-jr: problem is, SONAME is .so on GLESv2 Aug 23 05:51:23 as for gl-es - well the version is already in the soname Aug 23 05:51:29 the .2? Aug 23 05:51:32 there is little need to repeat it in the soversion major # Aug 23 05:51:46 tho the v2 honestly should never have been there Aug 23 05:51:52 Stskeeps: they should link to libGL.so :D Aug 23 05:51:57 the reason i'm asking is because mesa libEGL/libGLESv2 forces .so.1/so.2 Aug 23 05:52:03 actually no Aug 23 05:52:07 but thats also a fault of the gles2.x vs 2.0 standards body Aug 23 05:52:09 which is what most people will link against Aug 23 05:52:18 libGLESv2.so could be a link to libGL.so, but not vice-versa Aug 23 05:52:22 so there is little choice but to put it in the link line explicitly Aug 23 05:52:58 raster: my personal view is that ARM is partly at fault for missing the boat on moving from being an embedded shop to mobile computing.. so all the environments and licenses center around typical embedded business, like, OE, weird cross compilers, pay-per-device hardware licensing.. Aug 23 05:53:03 but as such i'd say it should link to /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so at compile time Aug 23 05:53:11 and that is a symlinkt to the real versioned so Aug 23 05:53:26 Stskeeps: erm… OE began with mobile computing Aug 23 05:53:27 we're moving to link to /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so.2 in meego and linaro, at least Aug 23 05:53:30 and well i suspect that is so.1.x.x Aug 23 05:53:37 or Aug 23 05:53:42 luke-jr: it's still a very embedded mindset and not for the faint at heart Aug 23 05:53:42 .so.1 Aug 23 05:53:56 ie they have a single unbroken api for gles-2.0 Aug 23 05:54:10 * luke-jr remembers when OE was known as OpenZaurus ☺ Aug 23 05:54:45 imho glesv2 should have the usual Aug 23 05:55:01 /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so -> libGLESv2.so.1 Aug 23 05:55:13 libGLESv2.so.1 -> libGLESv2.so.1.1 Aug 23 05:55:17 OE :-/ Aug 23 05:55:27 libGLESv2.so.1.1 -> libGLESv2.so.1.1.15.2856 Aug 23 05:55:41 and the /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so is only in the dev packages Aug 23 05:55:50 so binaries come out linking to libGLESv2.so.1 Aug 23 05:55:52 raster: agreed Aug 23 05:56:07 i am still not sure why it's .2 on libGLESv2. Aug 23 05:56:14 i dont see that it should have a major so.2.x Aug 23 05:56:17 why is it 2? Aug 23 05:56:24 http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html FWIW Aug 23 05:56:28 mesa decided it was so, it seems Aug 23 05:56:49 imgtec disagrees Aug 23 05:56:50 :) Aug 23 05:56:54 seems lib devels never learn to get their vrsioning sorted Aug 23 05:57:57 raster: funny fact - reason why they don't do that is because their build system is so broken a proper SONAME can't be set.. Aug 23 05:58:12 ? Aug 23 05:58:20 imgtec? Aug 23 05:58:22 yeah Aug 23 05:58:45 never looked Aug 23 05:58:48 even moorestown SGX went for just symlinking Aug 23 05:58:48 :P Aug 23 05:58:51 as such i tont think its imgtec's issue Aug 23 05:58:59 as they just leave it up to vendors to customise their src Aug 23 05:59:03 ie rebuild it Aug 23 05:59:24 who provided the libGLESv2.so ? Aug 23 05:59:42 hm? usually SoC vendor Aug 23 06:00:02 its the soc vendors fault then Aug 23 06:00:04 not imgtec Aug 23 06:00:08 or even then Aug 23 06:00:09 not soc vendor Aug 23 06:00:14 likely device vendor Aug 23 06:00:19 well, code stems from imgtec Aug 23 06:00:23 eg - for n900 nokia will build the gles libs and drivers Aug 23 06:00:25 its nokias fault Aug 23 06:00:49 problem stems from the code used though Aug 23 06:01:09 dont think so Aug 23 06:01:16 my glesv2's have a proper version Aug 23 06:01:20 it happens to be 1.1.... Aug 23 06:02:07 ( its nokias fault) now *that* sounds somewhat familiar :-P Aug 23 06:02:59 raster: so does moorestown sgx, except there's a symlink to .so.2, heh Aug 23 06:03:03 .. ducttape galore Aug 23 06:03:33 nokia doesn't exactly have any noticeable record of being particularly gifted system maintainers Aug 23 06:03:47 ~optification Aug 23 06:03:48 extra, extra, read all about it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs Aug 23 06:04:36 we're going to start the morning with an optification discussion. really? Aug 23 06:04:37 :P Aug 23 06:04:40 Stskeeps: morestown i believe was provided by precision insight - intel hired them to do a different driver impl. Aug 23 06:04:58 just felt like quoting another duct tape botch Aug 23 06:05:03 raster: hm? looks like pretty ordinary sgx to me Aug 23 06:06:41 or: [2010-08-23 06:59:24] btw: BUG - maemo fremantle writes back system time to RTC on shutdown Aug 23 06:06:47 how is that a bug? Aug 23 06:06:52 though thats heritage Aug 23 06:07:17 sysclock never is better than RTC, on system shutdown Aug 23 06:08:02 hwclock needs to be adjusted *only* when some startum time source is *adjusting* the system time Aug 23 06:08:14 never(1) on shutdown Aug 23 06:08:23 s/1/! Aug 23 06:09:28 Stskeeps: thats my understanding. as opposed with going with the normal imgtec provided drivers they paid precisaion insight to do new ones Aug 23 06:09:38 maybe thats an earlier atom with the sgx Aug 23 06:09:38 almost all disros got that wrong, at least by default. Some allow to disable that nonsense via sysconfig/ Aug 23 06:09:45 raster: that's probably gma500 you're thinking of Aug 23 06:09:49 i may be mixing it up as too many codenames etc. floating aboiut Aug 23 06:09:53 ahhh ok Aug 23 06:09:54 gma500 Aug 23 06:09:56 that rings a bell Aug 23 06:15:02 brb Aug 23 06:17:50 wow skype has a massive bug Aug 23 06:18:02 like it littery turns off the phone Aug 23 06:18:20 Stskeeps: suspend (to disk/ram) on OM/OE kernel even does a totally weird thing: it calculates skew between RTC and sysclock on suspend and restores this same skew on resume - alas plus some seconds error due to latency Aug 23 06:18:57 hi Aug 23 06:18:59 Stskeeps: generally sysclosk always is way off from correct time, comapred to RTC Aug 23 06:19:14 * rmrfchik lost trying to build package in QtCreator Aug 23 06:19:41 and using adjtime makes things even much much worse Aug 23 06:20:27 Stskeeps: as a general rule never adjust RTC without adjusting sysclock same moment Aug 23 06:21:14 which implicitly disqualifies sysclock as a time source for RTC adjustment Aug 23 06:25:46 (of course this lets aside the deprecation of sudden time changes on systime. In real life I rarely ever seen anybody feeling concened abot that though, esp on single user systems) Aug 23 06:32:17 'ello 'ello maemites Aug 23 06:32:35 moo Aug 23 06:32:48 what's new and exciting? Aug 23 06:33:34 another work week. Aug 23 06:33:40 yay verily yay Aug 23 06:33:41 DocScrutinizer51: why not just grab clock from GPS? Aug 23 06:33:59 yeah why? dunno, ask Nokia Aug 23 06:34:14 that one i don't understand either Aug 23 06:34:25 there's a massive framework for time setting, closed source Aug 23 06:34:36 and why does my device still ask for time/date in first boot Aug 23 06:34:36 ? Aug 23 06:34:37 :P Aug 23 06:35:09 they screwed it, as usual Aug 23 06:35:09 it asks for time and suggests the correct time itself Aug 23 06:36:01 know why? just because nokia doesn't like peer review Aug 23 06:36:25 and seems meego isn't any better wrt that Aug 23 06:37:41 obviously, due to limited HR Nokia doesn't even allow much internal peer review Aug 23 06:38:14 * Stskeeps glares at DocScrutinizer and goes do work Aug 23 06:43:20 no need to glare at me. I'm just telling what is obvious from looking at it from outside Aug 23 06:47:37 from my POV and experience there's just so much difference between bme and sensorfw (or whatyacallit), regarding missing abstract system integration / API and operation mode whitepapers. The existing open source is just a small slice of the cake Aug 23 06:48:31 hey Aug 23 06:49:27 DocScrutinizer, actually, I've been curious about what kind how openmoko handled power management 'policy' Aug 23 06:49:44 heh. there was none Aug 23 06:50:08 well there isn't for maemo (or meego yet, AFAIK) Aug 23 06:50:36 but I had some ideas, so I'm going to try and hack something together and see exactly how dumb I am :) Aug 23 06:50:50 depends on your definition of OM and of 'power mgmt' Aug 23 06:51:05 not just power management, but what sets 'policy' Aug 23 06:52:01 policy for what exactly? Aug 23 06:52:06 What I'm thinking of how to the whole set of currently running programs more aware about the current state of the device Aug 23 06:52:29 Have you seen dbus-scripts and/or ActionManager? Aug 23 06:52:38 ideally they don't need to Aug 23 06:52:55 yep Aug 23 06:54:23 For example, I'd really like my device to be pull music/movies down from my desktop sometime during the night, as long as it's on wifi and plugged into power Aug 23 06:54:36 or I'd really like my torrent client to turn off when I unplug the charger Aug 23 06:54:36 a prog might be interested in a number of things, like 'online' 'visible' and dunno what. A general power mgmt policy though is largely useless for programs Aug 23 06:55:00 I think that's fair Aug 23 06:55:11 so maybe I misspoke when I said 'power management' Aug 23 06:55:40 for a general statement on OM you might want to look into freesmartphone.org for that Aug 23 06:56:18 apps allocate/free and query particular resources Aug 23 06:56:26 fso does the rest Aug 23 06:57:12 what if an app isn't in a position where it can query the current state? (ie, if it's not running) Aug 23 06:57:32 err? Aug 23 06:58:02 for example, if I wanted my torrent client to *start* as long as some conditions were met? Aug 23 06:58:21 you can have rules for certain resorce events talking to/starting certain dbus clients Aug 23 06:58:26 invoke it via shell script? Aug 23 06:59:17 e.g on inbound sms fso will try to talk to and implicitly start fsopimd Aug 23 06:59:19 DocScrutinizer, ok, that is exactly what I'm looking for then :) I kind of figured I was re-inventing the wheel, but I couldn't find prior art Aug 23 07:00:34 inbound call does same with dialer-ui - whatever its called on fso Aug 23 07:00:54 fsophoned? Aug 23 07:01:35 * johnx|debook reads Aug 23 07:01:49 check out http://freesmartphone.org Aug 23 07:01:57 yup, on it Aug 23 07:02:01 looking at the architecture Aug 23 07:02:42 architecture is nice (hehe, a tiny bit is by me :-p) Aug 23 07:03:17 making this face: >_< because I just spent my sunday night reading 'dbus-scripts.c' trying to get a feel for working with dbus and glib in C Aug 23 07:03:21 ping mickeyl if you want 1. hand info Aug 23 07:03:58 I'll read a bit before I waste a whole bunch of other people's time without knowing if anyone in else in maemo/meego land is even interested :) Aug 23 07:04:11 btw SHR/FSO will come to N900 in a short while :-) Aug 23 07:04:25 via Meego? or to Maemo 5? Aug 23 07:04:28 hopefully we will all be dead and gone by then Aug 23 07:04:29 :P Aug 23 07:04:35 lol Aug 23 07:04:42 aaah, the whole stack? Aug 23 07:04:51 yup, lol Aug 23 07:04:54 O_o; Aug 23 07:05:01 next question is why would anyone want that Aug 23 07:05:20 ask the people who seem to want it, not me :-P Aug 23 07:05:26 Stskeeps, I'm not sure yet, but the policy stuff might have been what we were looking for for a while ... Aug 23 07:05:42 my words Aug 23 07:05:47 since meego first days Aug 23 07:05:50 shr was part reason why i wanted to throw my FR out the window when getting it Aug 23 07:06:22 mhm Aug 23 07:06:52 shr? Aug 23 07:06:53 because it obsoleted mer? Aug 23 07:07:38 mer obsoleted itself :> Aug 23 07:08:15 http://www.shr-project.org/trac Aug 23 07:08:50 johnx|debook: at least meego seems to be the kicker to move to a more open platform with open telephony stack, redistributable firmware, bme, sgx.. Aug 23 07:09:22 upstream kernel.. Aug 23 07:09:29 so i like to think we made a difference somewhere Aug 23 07:09:37 Stskeeps, I think we did Aug 23 07:09:50 Even if it was mainly to serve as a warning to others :) Aug 23 07:09:55 hehe Aug 23 07:10:05 'be careful what you wish for' Aug 23 07:10:05 :P Aug 23 07:10:20 someone suggested to port maemo gtk to meego.. Aug 23 07:10:46 johnx|debook: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue /shr Aug 23 07:10:51 But the lack of some kind of policy daemon or service in meego weirds me out Aug 23 07:11:11 johnx|debook: there's one actually, or supposed to come Aug 23 07:11:17 i can't recall the name offhand Aug 23 07:12:15 I couldn't find the info...and last time I asked in #meego no one could tell me if they'd have cron or if scheduling would happen some other way Aug 23 07:12:19 ah Aug 23 07:12:24 timed is coming now Aug 23 07:12:25 sec Aug 23 07:12:38 I think I'm failing to R the proper FM :) Aug 23 07:12:54 directions to its location appreciated :P Aug 23 07:13:03 looking.. Aug 23 07:13:16 http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/timed Aug 23 07:14:04 * DocScrutinizer frowns at timed and other non compatible cron replacements Aug 23 07:14:22 cron's kinda crap for the typical alarm/'wake me up at this point' Aug 23 07:14:22 :P Aug 23 07:14:52 there's no obvious rationale why crond can't learn to behave on embedded devices, with RTC Alarms even Aug 23 07:15:31 patch would never go upstream Aug 23 07:15:31 reinventing the wheel all the time Aug 23 07:15:34 though really, it also shouldn't be hard to patch timed to read crontabs to generate events Aug 23 07:15:41 anacron! :P Aug 23 07:15:50 fsck anacron Aug 23 07:16:36 johnx|debook: so then I'd not care if it's called timed or crond. I'd simply create a symlink in /bin :-P Aug 23 07:16:58 when i add maemo repos to ubuntu and update, i get this error: Aug 23 07:16:59 W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY E40DC434616730BD Aug 23 07:17:15 or just make a crontab that will take a properly formatted crontab file and create a timed event for you ... Aug 23 07:17:20 it's not an error, it says W: Aug 23 07:17:53 ubuntu 10.04 i386 Aug 23 07:17:57 ilius, it's 'as intended' according to Nokia. You'd have to take it up with them directly. I suggest calling their customer support :) Aug 23 07:18:21 johnx|debook: that's roundabout how fsocrond works Aug 23 07:18:25 but all of repos is ignored or huted Aug 23 07:18:33 *hit Aug 23 07:18:48 johnx|debook: (suggested by me :-P) Aug 23 07:19:05 Ign http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle/free Translation-en_US Aug 23 07:19:05 Ign http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle/non-free Translation-en_US Aug 23 07:19:05 Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk Release.gpg Aug 23 07:19:07 .... Aug 23 07:19:16 ilius, that doesn't mean what you think it means Aug 23 07:20:29 morning Aug 23 07:20:47 when downloading index, most of files is Faild or Hit Aug 23 07:21:08 ok failed will have a reason why next to them Aug 23 07:21:19 actually, just pastebin the whole output Aug 23 07:21:24 ilius: also, why are you trying to insert maemo repos into ubuntu? Aug 23 07:21:25 mornin' hrw, lbt :) Aug 23 07:21:29 only insane people do that Aug 23 07:21:32 (<-) Aug 23 07:21:59 hey. I tried to do it and make it work for like a year. I learned my lesson ... Aug 23 07:22:01 Stskeeps: yes Aug 23 07:22:29 Stskeeps: it supports i386 Aug 23 07:22:50 ilius: still.. Aug 23 07:22:50 :P Aug 23 07:22:56 It probably won't work the way you think it will work Aug 23 07:23:14 http://paste.ubuntu.com/482220/ Aug 23 07:23:19 can i use the latest debian-squeeze devkit (ie: v1.0.5) for maemo development? Aug 23 07:23:25 Using repos from distro X in distro Y usually results in disaster :p Aug 23 07:23:48 aboyer: use lenny Aug 23 07:24:01 ilius, yes. That run of apt-get update completted successfully Aug 23 07:24:34 johnx|debook: but no package is index except for python-conic !! Aug 23 07:24:54 go read the lists apt downloaded for you Aug 23 07:25:33 jacekowski: i'm trying to build my app with maemo-sdk-symbols and a post on the mailing list recomends squeeze (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/60704) Aug 23 07:25:36 johnx|debook: oops, s/fsocrond/fsoatd/ Aug 23 07:25:51 ilius, in /var/lib/apt/lists/ Aug 23 07:26:05 jacekowski: however, it an old thread and there is a newer version of the sqeeze devkit now.. Aug 23 07:26:12 johnx|debook: the fsocrond was suggested by me, but not yet implemented it seems Aug 23 07:26:21 aboyer: use lenny Aug 23 07:26:27 aboyer: other devkits have issues Aug 23 07:26:35 alright, where do i get it? Aug 23 07:26:50 you should have it in /scratchbox/packages/ Aug 23 07:26:58 or somewhere Aug 23 07:27:13 /scratchbox/devkits/ Aug 23 07:35:01 Stskeeps, any idea about the name of that policy daemon for meego? Aug 23 07:35:22 johnx|debook: sorry, it still escapes me Aug 23 07:35:41 think it's on gitorious or would it still be on the drawing board? Aug 23 07:35:56 possibly on gitorious or in source rpms Aug 23 07:36:25 thanks. I'll try and track it down Aug 23 07:40:34 johnx|debook: for all I was able to understand, sensorfw for sure has to be a part of that Aug 23 07:40:58 johnx|debook: i think it's a combo of contextkit and something else Aug 23 07:43:30 aah! that sounds quite promising Aug 23 07:43:35 Stskeeps: that's btw exactly my critics. Not even you have a way / location to look up such things Aug 23 07:43:54 DocScrutinizer51: more like that i haven't had time to look into it Aug 23 07:45:00 Stskeeps: yeah, for sure if I read the whole 50mio src lines of an arbitrary system, then I don't need a survey anymore Aug 23 07:45:22 <_|Nix|_> X-Fade: Ping! Aug 23 07:46:47 though even then I need not only to read src but also understand the concept behind it Aug 23 07:48:00 so for now meego with the 50mio open src is as closed to me as is bme Aug 23 07:48:28 that's not exactly true Aug 23 07:48:30 maybe evn more closed as bme we got somewhat dissected now Aug 23 07:49:05 it's all a question of whether it's possible for someone to be motivated enough to overcome the barriers to entry Aug 23 07:49:14 and exactly *how* motivated they'd have to be Aug 23 07:49:28 johnx|debook: exactly Aug 23 07:49:41 morning people Aug 23 07:49:55 morn wazd Aug 23 07:50:01 so with BME closed, you'd have to be handy with a de-compiler, and have some serious knowledge about how the hardware works Aug 23 07:50:05 mornin' wazd :D Aug 23 07:50:10 hi guys Aug 23 07:50:13 X-Fade: ping Aug 23 07:50:17 johnx|debook: that's what I meant by 'hostile' Aug 23 07:50:19 ~seen X-Fade Aug 23 07:50:20 x-fade is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 58 messages. Is idling for 2d 18h 3m 41s, last said: 'ali1234: https://build.obs.maemo.org/project/show?project=Maemo%3AFremantle%3A1.2%3ABootstrap'. Aug 23 07:50:33 DocScrutinizer, so, I'd say less hostile than they used to be Aug 23 07:51:11 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: I looked for him as well, regarding the hildon-extras stuckage ... Aug 23 07:53:05 _|Nix|_: ah. Aug 23 07:53:33 _|Nix|_: sorry, not familiar with your IRC nick, who are you? :) Aug 23 07:53:40 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: Gabriel Schulhof Aug 23 07:53:44 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: You? Aug 23 07:54:11 <_|Nix|_> I should probly set my name in irssi ... Aug 23 07:54:49 <_|Nix|_> Hmmm ... I did set my real name ... Aug 23 07:56:55 _|Nix|_: Timur Kristófe Aug 23 07:57:06 _|Nix|_: Timur Kristóf Aug 23 07:57:06 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: Howdy! Aug 23 07:57:15 _|Nix|_: hey :) Aug 23 07:57:44 _|Nix|_: what should I do for QtHeWrapper to be included in the doc? Aug 23 07:58:49 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: I'm thinking you could probably edit hildon-extras-docs.sgml manually. It's in an HTML-like format. Aug 23 07:59:06 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: It's pretty simple ... Just add a few paragraphs. Aug 23 07:59:46 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: You can look at the files in xml/ to see what a typical piece of documentation is supposed to look like. Aug 23 08:00:23 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: Then, you can add a file, say, qt-he-wrapper.xml into doc/ and add that to hildon-extras-docs.sgml Aug 23 08:00:37 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: You'd basically be following the gtk-doc generation proces, but by hand. Aug 23 08:01:39 does someone know why fapman is armel only? Aug 23 08:01:54 someone here uses the invisible shield? Aug 23 08:01:57 is it good? Aug 23 08:02:09 plenty of people recommend it Aug 23 08:02:22 though your screen will end up with a bit of a rubbery feel to it Aug 23 08:02:59 I use it Aug 23 08:03:00 it's good Aug 23 08:03:17 if you've never applied it before, assume that you'll screw it up at least the first time you try Aug 23 08:04:36 budfive: that's what i'm guessing ;) Aug 23 08:04:54 always worth getting it from a shop that offers fitting as well :p Aug 23 08:04:56 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: I just moved doc/hildon-extras-docs.sgml to hildon-extras-docs.sgml.in, so edit the latter file, not the former. Aug 23 08:05:05 steinex: wipe everything down first as well as you possibly can. You want no dust at all Aug 23 08:05:38 steinex: it's good to do it in a very humid environment to settle airborne dust; run your shower for a bit and do it there Aug 23 08:06:06 steinex: use lots and lots of the installation fluid Aug 23 08:06:15 right know i just drop the n900 in my pocket without any case... it's ok so far but, hm. Aug 23 08:06:18 ;) Aug 23 08:06:33 <_|Nix|_> steinex: Just don't put anything else into that pocket :) Aug 23 08:06:34 maybe i will let it apply in some shop Aug 23 08:06:42 just adding a case works perfectly well if you can put up with putting it in and taking it out Aug 23 08:06:44 _|Nix|_: wouldn't it be possible to create some documentation to the source code and make GtkDoc use that? Aug 23 08:07:11 just dropped my n900 accidentaly once on stone from 1,50, i was surprised that it survived Aug 23 08:07:15 :D Aug 23 08:07:15 iv had mine since the beginning of feb with no screen protector and my screen's still flawless, simply because it's in a leather carry case whenever it's not being used Aug 23 08:07:33 nid0: i had such a case but didn't like it Aug 23 08:07:44 nid0: too much fumble on incoming call or so Aug 23 08:07:57 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: Well, I dunno enough about gtk-doc ... try it. Here's how: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk-doc-manual/stable/documenting_symbols.html.en Aug 23 08:08:51 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: The comments that look like Example 3-3 can go right above the function prototype in the header file, AFAIK. Aug 23 08:10:02 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: Although the fact that gtk-doc doesn't recognize the symbols in your header files as those which should be documented but aren't doesn't bode well for it picking up your comments. Aug 23 08:10:23 i want to run gTranslate in ubuntu, but it depends on libconic and libconic could not installed Aug 23 08:10:47 ~curse developers which create UI using Qt without using Layout elements Aug 23 08:10:48 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, developers which create UI using Qt without using Layout elements ! Aug 23 08:10:55 ~curse apmefo one twice Aug 23 08:10:56 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, apmefo one twice ! Aug 23 08:11:40 i didn't find a good client for google translator (for linux) except for gTranslate in maemo repo Aug 23 08:11:57 _|Nix|_: hm, I dunno Aug 23 08:12:04 maybe i have to change the source code Aug 23 08:12:35 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: I might be able to get you started with a skeleton .xml file in about 8-9 hours. Aug 23 08:12:36 yup. if you're very lucky it might just be a matter of changing the configure options Aug 23 08:12:57 <_|Nix|_> Venemo: ... if the automatic generation doesn't work out for you. Aug 23 08:13:44 johnx|debook: who was your addressee? Aug 23 08:13:46 ~seen nathraiben Aug 23 08:13:47 hrw: i haven't seen 'nathraiben' Aug 23 08:14:06 re Aug 23 08:14:21 ilius, I meant you. it's worth a try to download the source and see if you can turn off the requirement for conic Aug 23 08:15:19 johnx|debook: thanks, but i wonder why there is not a good client for desktop linux and i have to use a mobile app for desktop :-D Aug 23 08:15:34 sorry, no idea Aug 23 08:16:52 apmefo has bugs.maemo.org listed as bugtracker but no such product in bugzilla... Aug 23 08:28:17 _|Nix|_: how can I test the auto-generation? Aug 23 08:32:42 ARGH.. Aug 23 08:32:56 DocScrutinizer51: apmefo suxx more and more when I look at it. Aug 23 08:33:18 DocScrutinizer51: UI is done in idiotic way, no real sources available, no bugtracker... Aug 23 08:33:28 ~curse apmefo so called developer Aug 23 08:33:29 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, apmefo so called developer ! Aug 23 08:33:51 hrw: take it elsewhere, I'm not interested Aug 23 08:34:08 DocScrutinizer51: mkey, you was person who suggested to take a look Aug 23 08:34:18 yawn Aug 23 08:34:20 sorry Aug 23 08:34:25 EHLO hrw, Doc Aug 23 08:34:56 hi RST38h Aug 23 08:35:07 woohoo, TAT would be in Dublin :D Aug 23 08:35:12 designer party Aug 23 08:35:13 ;) Aug 23 08:35:31 And I was planning to poke their concepts a bit :D Goddamn :) Aug 23 08:35:44 wazd and Sts too =) Aug 23 08:35:59 wazd: not that hard to poke Aug 23 08:36:17 wazd: Starting with the dismal waste of space when showing an application (eg web browser) Aug 23 08:36:24 RST38h: well, in fact Stskeeps is more important than TAT) Aug 23 08:36:45 RST38h: you, btw? Aug 23 08:36:47 Hear that, Stskeeps? Aug 23 08:36:53 wazd: Probably not going Aug 23 08:37:01 RST38h: aww :( Aug 23 08:37:10 wazd: Can't spend that much money + will be out of vacation days by then Aug 23 08:37:46 RST38h: maybe Nokia can sponsor emu-lord?) Aug 23 08:37:52 wazd: Not likely Aug 23 08:38:03 wazd: I have nothing to talk about (at least yet) Aug 23 08:38:27 wazd: And they will probably have limitations on sponsoring Nokia/Intel employees anyway Aug 23 08:39:15 RST38h: I can even give you mine, if I'll get some. Cause I think I'll find some cash for the tickets and visa, and I have a free place to rest 8n Dublin for emergency cases :) Aug 23 08:40:03 though I doubt that it will be available :) Aug 23 08:41:04 I wonder if TAT can borrow me their UI prototyping tools ^^ Aug 23 08:41:17 wazd: Have you figured out the topic of your talk btw? Aug 23 08:41:23 wazd: afaik they use flash Aug 23 08:41:52 wazd: But after all that time, it may be easier just to learn damn C++/Qt, it is not THAT complicated Aug 23 08:41:59 RST38h: no, not flash. They have their own "cascades" stuff Aug 23 08:42:20 ah Aug 23 08:43:45 RST38h: http://conference2010.meego.com/session/application-design-survival-guide-programmers Aug 23 08:43:52 RST38h: o/ Aug 23 08:45:02 RST38h: to learn C++ I have to learn C, and before that - python or something :) Aug 23 08:45:24 wazd: You can skip Python Aug 23 08:45:46 wazd: C is a good idea. In fact, you may not need to learn C++ after that, just treat it as a better C ;) Aug 23 08:46:18 wazd: But the original book on C is a 5mm-thick brochure that fits a pocket Aug 23 08:46:44 wazd: (the one I had was part of the "Radio" magazine series of books, blue paper cover) Aug 23 08:47:16 Intel CEO: «We need antivirus, can someone buy me McAfee?» Few hours later: «Done.» «Great, which version?» «Version… ?» Aug 23 08:50:21 * hrw sent request for apmefo *real* sources. I wonder will I ever get them Aug 23 08:51:36 mmmm, tacos Aug 23 08:52:51 wazd: K&R Aug 23 08:53:06 wazd: that's only book you need Aug 23 08:53:46 hrw: You want to rewrite it in C/C++? Aug 23 08:55:01 jacekowski: currently I need to be locked down in some european abandoned bunker with food and PC to learn 3D Modelling :) Aug 23 08:55:50 RST38h: no, I want to fix ui Aug 23 08:56:03 RST38h: and UI source is not in source package Aug 23 08:56:06 wazd: you mean, your appartment block basement won't do? Aug 23 08:56:24 hrw: splendid Aug 23 08:56:32 hrw: how did it build, anyway? Aug 23 08:56:45 RST38h: it contains generated python files Aug 23 08:57:01 RST38h: 'build' process for apmefo is 'cp' based Aug 23 08:57:06 oh Aug 23 08:57:25 and it still went into "free"? Aug 23 08:57:57 RST38h: extras process is automated - no one checks packages Aug 23 08:59:13 * RST38h sighs Aug 23 09:01:22 morning \o Aug 23 09:02:47 good morning lcuk! :) Aug 23 09:03:20 hi lcuk Aug 23 09:05:48 this ain't funny anymore Aug 23 09:05:50 Khertan: ping Aug 23 09:05:53 ~seen Khertan Aug 23 09:05:55 khertan is currently on #maemo (19h 53m 21s) #meego (19h 53m 21s). Has said a total of 10 messages. Is idling for 14h 34m 44s, last said: 'ah the proto ?'. Aug 23 09:05:57 bug 9902 still isn't fixed Aug 23 09:05:58 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9902 Autocleaner purged _all_ versions of sflphone-client-gnome from extras-devel Aug 23 09:07:26 Call for beta-testing game for maemo ;) A port (writen from scratch) of Vexed (vexed.sf.net) Aug 23 09:08:01 X-Fade: slacker! bug 9902 is FOUR MONTH old already Aug 23 09:08:34 if it's written from scratch it's a clone right? Aug 23 09:08:43 yeah, clone Aug 23 09:08:44 sure I could test Aug 23 09:08:45 whatever Aug 23 09:09:12 mailto:paulaner@gmail.com Aug 23 09:09:29 i'll reply with .deb later today Aug 23 09:14:11 and I'll appreciate any help to make QtCreator to make nice package for maemo. Now it create package with binary, and I want to include .desktop file Aug 23 10:08:37 timeless_mbp: the toolbar bug occurs on the first opening of a browser window, after the boot Aug 23 10:08:54 got screens, will post them in a bit Aug 23 10:11:31 hey Aug 23 10:11:58 how do i vote for council and does the person have to be from europe so he would be in touch with Nokia? Aug 23 10:12:21 are the elections up again? Aug 23 10:12:24 I thought it was in September Aug 23 10:12:35 i saw topic on maemo news Aug 23 10:12:49 ZogG: the location rarely influences anything with regards to the nokia-council relation Aug 23 10:15:08 johnx: (meego hostile) well, setting potential contributors in #meego on ignore isn't exactly helping to jump even the lowest barriers Aug 23 10:15:38 you're on ignore in #meego? Aug 23 10:15:59 obviously Aug 23 10:16:07 but meh, nm Aug 23 10:16:38 Uhm, I hadn't seen you talk there in days ... Aug 23 10:17:24 Actually, I didn't even know there was a channel-wide ignore list (or at least one on #meego) Aug 23 10:18:42 #meego-arm to be precise Aug 23 10:19:21 Just because people don't have an answer for a question, doesn't mean you're on ignore ... Aug 23 10:19:27 I didn't mention a channel wide list Aug 23 10:19:55 I was confused by the phrasing, since you didn't mention anyone in particular Aug 23 10:20:44 But yeah, I would generally say, that lack of answer != ignore Aug 23 10:21:24 I had no question to ask, I tried to contribute, but as mentioned above it's been a silly mood as I finished with #meego weeks ago for exactly this general clubhouse mentality Aug 23 10:23:00 are you referring to the discussion about sources of battery info? Aug 23 10:23:05 just let those fulltime paid dudes do their jobs, don't want to distract them Aug 23 10:24:20 DocScrutinizer: we don't have bq* in the kernel, so the issue is a bit moot atm Aug 23 10:25:58 * johnx doesn't feel like helping people fix their relationships right now, sleeps instead Aug 23 10:26:43 johnx, sleep well dude Aug 23 10:27:16 thanks lcuk :) Aug 23 10:49:33 http://www.svgalib.org/matan/770/n900/bq27x00_battery.c *shrug* Aug 23 10:49:54 is it submitted upstream and on path to acceptance? Aug 23 10:51:02 also, when did you last sleep? Aug 23 10:59:12 ZogG: Voting instructions will be sent out nearer the time. Candidates can be based anywhere. Aug 23 10:59:51 crashanddie: Up next month, but the dates have to be announced a month in advance: http://maemo.org/community/council/community_council_september_election/ Aug 23 11:05:08 kerio: thanks Aug 23 11:05:17 please do note *how* you open the browser Aug 23 11:05:36 is it from a shortcut, bookmark, desktop widget, or the launcher, or something more surprising Aug 23 11:05:48 (Conversations, Mail, ...) Aug 23 11:11:07 http://www.mail-archive.com/openmoko-kernel@lists.openmoko.org/msg00894.html Aug 23 11:11:47 openmoko isn't considered a upstream kernel Aug 23 11:23:13 this answer isn't considered helpful Aug 23 11:32:58 http://lmgtfy.com/?q="BQ27000+HDQ+battery+monitor+driver"+debian maybe this is better for some special needs :-P Aug 23 11:33:29 and honestly, I feel like the monkey. Aug 23 11:33:45 so do whatever you like Aug 23 11:37:08 Anyone familiar qith Qt here? Aug 23 11:37:31 * frals points at w00t_ Aug 23 11:38:24 Jaffa: ok Aug 23 11:39:01 RST38h: somewhat Aug 23 11:40:36 timeless_mbp: shortcut from the desktop iirc Aug 23 11:40:39 RST38h, also depends which classes within Qt you are working with Aug 23 11:41:13 yay.. turns out I'm not without a job next week after all. Aug 23 11:42:24 I think I wanna play with meego a little now. :) Aug 23 11:44:27 ieatlint,lcuk: I need to figure out the fastest way to blit an image (plain unsigned char buffer) to the screen in Qt Aug 23 11:45:13 so you have custom data that changes once per frame and you want it to be updates live Aug 23 11:45:20 right Aug 23 11:45:40 hey, anyone use saunalahti here? Aug 23 11:45:45 and you don't want to use the Qpainter or similar primatives to do the drawing for you? Aug 23 11:46:08 mece: yeah Aug 23 11:46:28 mece: me Aug 23 11:46:47 yeah, you can accomplish that with something like qimage methinks Aug 23 11:47:43 ok fragment, Scelt, my question is can you use two different phones simultaneously if you have a multisim type deal (Saunalahti Nopsa+) Aug 23 11:48:37 mece: I have another sim but it is in a usb 3g modem Aug 23 11:48:48 mece: I think so because it works with 3g modem usb stickie thing too. that stick installs program to pc to be able to send and receive sms with the pc Aug 23 11:49:16 mece: but to call from both phones at the same time sounds a little complicated Aug 23 11:49:22 mece: but if the sim is in an another phone, both will ring in incoming call Aug 23 11:49:29 mece: sms is only delivered to the other one, I think Aug 23 11:49:29 Scelt, well receiving calls mostly.. Aug 23 11:49:39 ok. Aug 23 11:49:40 should work Aug 23 11:49:56 huh? each sim has a different number Aug 23 11:49:57 I recall that sms messages are delivered to both sims Aug 23 11:50:03 kerio, no. Aug 23 11:50:19 kerio: "technical number" is different, "real number" isn't Aug 23 11:50:31 then you have a fucked up carrier :| Aug 23 11:50:37 RST38h, what sort of widgets and surface and even flavour of the toolkit are you using Aug 23 11:50:43 kerio, now, it's awesome. Aug 23 11:50:49 s/now/no/ Aug 23 11:50:50 mece meant: kerio, no, it's awesome. Aug 23 11:50:51 ie is it even practical to use qimage itself to do this? Aug 23 11:51:17 lcuk: MeegoTouch Aug 23 11:51:48 Ok, does not look like anyone can help me Aug 23 11:52:01 anyway, the reason I ask is because N900 is my only phone, but since I want to do some experimental stuff (meego n such) I need a backup phone with a sim) Aug 23 11:52:33 mece: you can get a sim with diff number and redirect calls too Aug 23 11:52:54 ~seen Khertan Aug 23 11:52:56 khertan is currently on #maemo (22h 40m 20s) #meego (22h 40m 20s). Has said a total of 10 messages. Is idling for 17h 21m 43s, last said: 'ah the proto ?'. Aug 23 11:53:00 but I though know that having multisim is easier Aug 23 11:53:01 Scelt, well, if it works with the sims I have I wont have to, will I? :D Aug 23 11:53:14 no, you won't Aug 23 11:53:16 mece: each SIM has a unique IMSI which (realistically) cannot be duplicated Aug 23 11:53:36 ieatlint, that is beside the point. Aug 23 11:53:39 and if you could, the cell tower would not allow two different IMEIs to register under the same IMSI Aug 23 11:54:07 are you not asking if you can have the same phone number for two SIMs? Aug 23 11:54:11 Is Finland the only country in the world using MultiSIM or how come people dunno a shit about multisim service? :P Aug 23 11:54:17 ieatlint, I already know I can. Aug 23 11:54:17 mece: SIM have a unique IMSI (like IP), and a central server (like DNS) is associating a phonenumber (like URL) to the IMSI. Of course this central server can have several IMSI for one phone# Aug 23 11:54:47 DocScrutinizer, thank you. That's what I figured. Aug 23 11:54:52 meh, ieatlint beat me Aug 23 11:54:54 :-) Aug 23 11:55:09 i've not heard of having multiple IMSIs like that... interesting Aug 23 11:56:06 ieatlint, it's quite a nice deal they have right now. for 14€ a month you get full speed unlimited 3g (up to 15Mbps from 2 sim cards. ie one for 3g modem one for phone. Aug 23 11:56:50 two SIMs linked to one billed account doesn't necessarily mean they share a phone number Aug 23 11:57:02 but they do Aug 23 11:57:06 ieatlint: maybe I'm not 100% correct on the terms, it might be another number/ID than exactly IMSI, but the basic principle is correct anyway Aug 23 11:57:06 but for €14... that's awesomes Aug 23 11:57:07 ieatlint, well it says on the paper they came with that they do. Aug 23 11:57:17 ieatlint, it is. Aug 23 11:57:32 DocScrutinizer: i've seen enough with openbts that i think it would be almost exactly like that Aug 23 11:57:54 mece: that's awesome Aug 23 11:57:57 well, I guess I can just test it :D Aug 23 11:58:09 not just the price, but if it actually dupes incoming sms/phone calls Aug 23 11:58:11 Need to dig up a phone. I gave my N95 to my mom, so NGAGE it is :D Aug 23 11:58:33 ieatlint: it does. I've used it too Aug 23 11:58:54 had a phone and pc with usb 3g modem online at the same time. an sms came to the both at the same time Aug 23 11:59:17 NGAGE + Frodo. That is the best mobile gaming evah :D Aug 23 11:59:26 ik+ in particular. Aug 23 11:59:31 i don't think i'll ever see anythink remotely like that here in the states Aug 23 11:59:37 anything, bleh Aug 23 11:59:56 well, Finland is the best country to live in asys Newsweek :P Aug 23 12:00:07 says Aug 23 12:00:19 Scelt, other sources say that finnish women are the sluttiest in the world. So win-win Aug 23 12:00:45 eh, i live in a city that supposedly has the smartest women in the US Aug 23 12:01:00 and we have awesome food Aug 23 12:01:11 ieatlint, where is that? Aug 23 12:01:16 san francisco Aug 23 12:01:33 ieatlint, :) It seems like a very cool city. Aug 23 12:01:42 mece: I don't think so. Finns are pretty up-tight and knowing the girls in the east, it's hard to believe that Aug 23 12:02:02 ieatlint: and you have mythbusters Aug 23 12:02:10 haha, yes, and we have the mythbusters Aug 23 12:02:40 Scelt: Just because you dont have any luck doesn't mean that others wont ;) Aug 23 12:03:01 Scelt, well they might be uptight, but apparently they put out, according to this study. I forget where it was but it had some 50000 participants from or so 50 countries. Aug 23 12:03:51 ok aaaanyway. Any particular brand of microsd you recommend for the N900? Aug 23 12:04:17 sharpneli: one is more than enough for me. If you are married, you know what I mean Aug 23 12:04:48 mythbusters, more silly even than McGyver ;-P Aug 23 12:04:52 you Aug 23 12:05:50 mece: okay. some study said that Czech girls are the best to have sex with. start as young as dutch, want as often as french and are afraid of stds as italian :P Aug 23 12:06:05 Scelt: sandisk Aug 23 12:06:34 Scelt: Are they good in the kitchen and at funerals? Aug 23 12:06:35 err mece Aug 23 12:06:39 ok... Aug 23 12:06:42 mece: are as little afraid of stds as italians Aug 23 12:06:49 * RST38h asking practical questions Aug 23 12:06:57 at funerals? Aug 23 12:06:59 seriously? Aug 23 12:07:10 that's what you look for in women... how they do at funerals? Aug 23 12:07:15 RST38h: get yourself one and you'll know. or ask your father about your momma Aug 23 12:09:44 ieatlint: ++ Aug 23 12:10:07 hmm what's this class crap on microsd cards? What do I want? Class 10 is waay too expensive. Aug 23 12:10:20 higher the class, higher the throughput Aug 23 12:10:57 It seems class == MB/s Aug 23 12:12:02 hmm sandisk are either microsdhc 16gb or Mobile Ultra microsdhc 16gb. 47€ vs 65€... Aug 23 12:13:00 hmm 8gb the ultra one (I guess that's faster) for 29€. 8Gb is plenty for meego I guess? Aug 23 12:21:07 Hi. I'm trying to install freoffice on my n900. But I get such error message: "E: Couldn't find package freoffice" Aug 23 12:21:17 I already added http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/ Aug 23 12:27:12 floh79: hmm looks ok here Aug 23 12:27:34 DocScrutinizer51: What could be wrong? Aug 23 12:27:53 There is such line in source.list: Aug 23 12:27:59 deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/ fremantle free non-free Aug 23 12:28:07 maybe it's in devel, not testing Aug 23 12:28:09 Should be ok? Aug 23 12:28:37 Argh.!!! Aug 23 12:28:49 DocScrutinizer51: Good point! I didn't notice that. -.- Aug 23 12:29:25 someone should port skifree to maemo Aug 23 12:30:23 DocScrutinizer51: Thank you. I'm wondering why I don't get a error because of wrong url. Aug 23 12:31:01 testing is a valid repo Aug 23 12:32:13 whats the proper word for the tiny ridges/nipples/whatever that are on most hw keyboards on f and j? Aug 23 12:32:49 those indicate the home keys Aug 23 12:32:55 DocScrutinizer51: Oh... you're right. Aug 23 12:33:03 yeah but is there some nifty word for them lcuk? Aug 23 12:33:18 DocScrutinizer51: So extras-devel is more bleedy-edge than extras-testing, right? Aug 23 12:33:21 guess ill just go with "home key indicators" otherwise Aug 23 12:33:52 floh79: yes Aug 23 12:34:06 frals: tactile markers? Aug 23 12:34:08 DocScrutinizer51: Thanx. Have a nice day! Aug 23 12:34:56 ~seen Khertan Aug 23 12:34:58 khertan is currently on #maemo (23h 22m 23s) #meego (23h 22m 23s). Has said a total of 10 messages. Is idling for 18h 3m 46s, last said: 'ah the proto ?'. Aug 23 12:35:12 DocScrutinizer51: sounds good, cheers Aug 23 12:37:52 MohammadAG51: ping Aug 23 12:53:35 ~seen qwerty12 Aug 23 12:53:37 qwerty12 was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 262d 18h 28m 19s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'. Aug 23 12:53:46 :( Aug 23 12:54:34 wazd: did you see his glamorous exit? Aug 23 12:54:51 Stskeeps: nope Aug 23 12:54:57 wazd: sec Aug 23 12:55:04 Oh, qwerty has been really good at it Aug 23 12:55:11 * lcuk thinks we should hire qwerty and texrat and have texrat as his boss personally Aug 23 12:56:33 wazd: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=774637#post774637 and http://pastebin.com/GAxYw8yN Aug 23 12:57:09 pastebin link the most interesting Aug 23 13:02:41 fabo: also, would you be okay with me making a wikipage for this? Aug 23 13:03:07 Whoops, wrong channel :) Aug 23 13:05:48 Hi all Aug 23 13:06:03 Khertan_work, \o Aug 23 13:06:41 wow :D Aug 23 13:07:27 that was cool :D Aug 23 13:09:14 wazd, sure its cool to bitch and insult people around here. Aug 23 13:10:56 lcuk: well, I don't think that he came up with this out of nowhere first of all Aug 23 13:13:23 oh come on, nokia doesnt really care about 'community' Aug 23 13:13:34 he mad Aug 23 13:14:31 I wonder who's the Frenchman :D Aug 23 13:14:41 The Flying Frenchmannnn! Aug 23 13:14:47 Khertan?) Aug 23 13:14:48 (or was it the Flying Dutchman?) Aug 23 13:15:17 wazd: nah, it's been concluded it was crashanddie Aug 23 13:15:18 :P Aug 23 13:15:27 they dont fix bugs I submitted therefore they suck Aug 23 13:15:57 Stskeeps: aaah, that's why I was surprised :) Cause Khertan looks as pretty nice guy to me :) Aug 23 13:16:24 wazd: BTW have you approached the Faster App Manager guy with some gui design suggestions? Aug 23 13:16:40 wazd: His stuff may benefit from them =) Aug 23 13:16:53 RST38h: no, who is it first of all? :D Aug 23 13:17:09 wazd: http://maemo.org/packages/view/fapman/ Aug 23 13:17:21 wazd: basically, the guy has written a HAM substitute Aug 23 13:17:29 love the name. Aug 23 13:17:36 (HAM being rendered mostly unsuable by the last PR) Aug 23 13:17:41 jesus, what kind of name is tht?! :D Aug 23 13:17:59 fapman :D Oh my :D Aug 23 13:18:29 wazd: maybe not everyone hang out on boards, though. Aug 23 13:18:32 wazd, it's a winning name. Teh winningest infact :D Aug 23 13:18:54 Somehow it resembles a certain type of game which is ideal for acceleration sensors way too much. :E Aug 23 13:18:58 I can see the slogan now. "Don't let your distro jerk you around. Get cozy with fapman." Aug 23 13:19:09 "Fapman. It rubs you the right way." Aug 23 13:19:18 Umgh. Aug 23 13:19:22 Ok, ttg. Aug 23 13:19:26 Stskeeps, someone should message qwerty and tell him "I'll take that into consideration" Aug 23 13:19:47 RST38h: I'll take a look Aug 23 13:19:56 wazd: i was pondering if you could make a music video with qwerty12's rant Aug 23 13:21:22 Autotune must be used Aug 23 13:21:24 lol Aug 23 13:22:17 Stskeeps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL9-esIM2CY Aug 23 13:22:23 Stskeeps: kinda Aug 23 13:22:56 wazd: excellent Aug 23 13:23:28 lol Aug 23 13:24:14 we gonna find you, qwerty12 Aug 23 13:24:17 home home home boy Aug 23 13:25:49 we need to come up with some chorus though :D Aug 23 13:33:32 apt gurus, how do I fall back to extras / extras-testing versions of softwares ? I seem to semi-fscked up the device, so dist-upgrade nor upgrade never go right Aug 23 13:35:23 apt-get install : Aug 23 13:35:34 IIRC Aug 23 13:35:46 package=version Aug 23 13:36:13 yeah I was expecting an automated solution with apt_preferences(5) Aug 23 13:36:52 suppose I need to mark the preference of extras/extras-testing packages > 1000 Aug 23 13:39:40 ~seen Khertan Aug 23 13:39:42 khertan is currently on #maemo (1d 27m 7s) #meego (1d 27m 7s). Has said a total of 10 messages. Is idling for 19h 8m 30s, last said: 'ah the proto ?'. Aug 23 13:39:55 ~seen Khertan_work Aug 23 13:39:56 khertan_work is currently on #maemo (33m 59s) #meego (33m 59s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 33m 57s, last said: 'Hi all'. Aug 23 13:40:02 Venemo: i'm here Aug 23 13:40:13 Khertan_work: hi! Aug 23 13:40:19 Venemo: hi Aug 23 13:40:21 Khertan_work: been looking for you for some time now Aug 23 13:40:32 :) Aug 23 13:40:34 hide! Aug 23 13:40:55 Khertan_work: I read your blog post here: http://khertan.net/articles/maemo/conboy_note_to_text and it gave me a very good idea Aug 23 13:41:06 which is ? Aug 23 13:41:54 ouch meego is really slow on n900 Aug 23 13:42:18 Khertan_work: well, judging by the fact we just figured out our qt is totally unoptimized, i'm not surprised Aug 23 13:42:19 maemo5 is, too Aug 23 13:42:19 no graphics acceleration I believe? Aug 23 13:42:21 :P Aug 23 13:42:29 thresh: maemo5 isn't Aug 23 13:42:41 launch ham Aug 23 13:42:43 kirma: yeah and running on mmc Aug 23 13:42:44 kirma: we have gfx accel Aug 23 13:42:58 thresh: ham isn't maemo ... it s an app of maemo Aug 23 13:43:02 thresh: one application != entire operating system. Aug 23 13:43:07 regardless of it being built in Aug 23 13:43:15 Khertan_work: well... how about writing some piece of code together that lets users open their Conboy notes in Sticky Notes? Aug 23 13:43:18 orly Aug 23 13:43:25 how would you use an OS without package manager Aug 23 13:43:35 apt-get? Aug 23 13:43:44 apt-get isn't slow Aug 23 13:43:53 yeah, last time I tried it bricked my device on update. Aug 23 13:43:58 PR update, that is. Aug 23 13:43:59 Venemo: but they ll loose conboy format and revert to simple test ? Aug 23 13:44:06 HAM, otoh, never worked good. Aug 23 13:44:10 Khertan_work: nope Aug 23 13:44:14 thresh, well don't do that with Extras-devel enabled. Aug 23 13:44:27 Khertan_work: Sticky Notes can handle text formatting pretty well Aug 23 13:45:02 well, now I don't have -devel enabled. Aug 23 13:45:04 Venemo: Sticky notes apps is written with which language ? Aug 23 13:45:08 Khertan_work: it works with a QTextEdit which works with HTML formatting Aug 23 13:45:17 still, libsdl-mixer1.2 wants to remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr. Aug 23 13:45:18 Khertan_work: Qt, C++ Aug 23 13:45:32 conboy works with xml file ... Aug 23 13:45:45 Khertan_work: so, XML to HTML and backwards, no big deal Aug 23 13:45:50 Venemo: yep Aug 23 13:46:17 Khertan_work: and there is D-Bus which allows us to communicate despite the language differences Aug 23 13:47:11 How do I turn on apt debug messaging? To understand why it chooses to remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr instead of leaving it. Aug 23 13:47:39 http://conference2010.meego.com/session/essentials-new-meego-user-experience Aug 23 13:48:58 * lcuk wishes he was more confident on stage Aug 23 13:49:01 Venemo: hum ... but i think you should ask to conny to add directly dbus method to conboy :) Aug 23 13:49:26 thresh: because you have a package whose version is not equal to the one that comes with your current firmware Aug 23 13:49:54 seriously, the only theme I'll be able to talk about is politics :D Aug 23 13:50:10 Khertan_work: I was thinking about adding a D-Bus method to Sticky Notes Aug 23 13:50:19 Venemo: How do I know which one exactly? Aug 23 13:50:28 wazd: 'surviving in zombie tree on fire smoke in moscow'? Aug 23 13:50:34 e.g. how do I turn on apt debug? Aug 23 13:50:46 lcuk: just realise that nobody cares, and that's it :D Aug 23 13:51:04 Stskeeps: yeah :) Aug 23 13:51:12 Stskeeps: for instance :) Aug 23 13:51:22 nobody cares about what wazd Aug 23 13:51:25 thresh: it is a harder question Aug 23 13:51:35 lcuk: exactly Aug 23 13:51:46 thresh: let it remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr, then 'apt-get install mp-fremantle-generic-pr' will tell you what the problem is Aug 23 13:52:01 good idea, this is a 'virtual' package aint it? Aug 23 13:52:12 lcuk: about anything :) You, your keynote. That helps me a lot Aug 23 13:52:57 yeah wazd, that helps me decide too, thanks Aug 23 13:53:06 lcuk: I just need to come out and enjoy myself :D Aug 23 13:53:08 thresh: I dunno... my being a Linux noob prevents me to answer that one Aug 23 13:53:30 * lcuk scraps his talk Aug 23 13:53:31 :) Aug 23 13:53:46 somehow it installed mp-fremantle-generic-pr after removing it just fine. Aug 23 13:53:58 i tend to blame nokia on this one too. Aug 23 13:54:23 lcuk: sorry, what talk? Aug 23 13:56:09 Khertan_work: by Conny, you mean the same Conny who is behind Hildon-Extras? Aug 23 13:56:48 Hi, can anyone tell me how I can get "py_compilefiles" to work on the build system? Aug 23 13:56:53 Venemo, I have a couple of talk proposals I keep hammering into Aug 23 13:57:05 lcuk: really? about what? :) Aug 23 13:57:10 but I dont like standing up Aug 23 13:58:06 one about community stuff, one about dev stuff Aug 23 13:58:59 how do i make use of the maemo-sdk-symbols package? i want to compile an app (using pr1.2 sdk) and have it run on older firmware (ie pr1.1.1) Aug 23 13:59:29 i followed the instructions here http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/60704, but it doesn't work... Aug 23 13:59:50 i'm thinking i need to tell the compiler something, but not sure what... Aug 23 14:00:00 lcuk: well, you are a well respected person here, so why don't you like standing up? Aug 23 14:00:11 Venemo, historical reasons Aug 23 14:00:41 I have never been the most confident at speaking but each time I have tried something fucks up Aug 23 14:00:45 Stskeeps: I really think that I'll end up meeting all these guys in the airport :D Aug 23 14:01:15 ah, someone fscked up with libsdl-mixer1.2 Aug 23 14:01:23 Venemo, my talk last year was completely fscked up by technical issue Aug 23 14:01:34 oh, right Aug 23 14:01:37 and of course mp-fremantle-generic-pr depends on a strict version Aug 23 14:01:37 i forgot that mishap Aug 23 14:01:38 :/ Aug 23 14:02:02 fremantle repo do not have any tests :/ Aug 23 14:02:03 lcuk: :( Aug 23 14:02:09 did people see http://oss.wayfinder.com/ ? Aug 23 14:02:14 yeah Stskeeps - it made me feel worse than throwing papers at linuxtag Aug 23 14:02:17 lcuk: at least you have something to talk about :) Aug 23 14:02:42 not good if i cannot get the words out Aug 23 14:02:52 lcuk: throwing papers? :P Aug 23 14:02:57 thresh: yeah. end users (who don't install things with dpkg or apt) will not have any problems with it thputh Aug 23 14:03:03 thresh: though* Aug 23 14:03:08 Stskeeps, umm yeah I had my notes on paper and they went flying Aug 23 14:03:09 lcuk: what happened? Aug 23 14:03:11 lcuk: ah Aug 23 14:03:17 lcuk: omg Aug 23 14:03:30 first time I had been in a room with >10 people in years and within 5mins of meeting people was up infront of them Aug 23 14:03:56 timeless_mbp: wow .. Aug 23 14:04:02 That's unexpected from voda ... Aug 23 14:04:19 * lcuk remembers backing off from the guy who pushed mic closer :$ Aug 23 14:04:28 * lcuk never really got over that experience Aug 23 14:04:32 i want to include gst/interfaces/photography.h to get the auto-focus function, but in the source/usr/include/gstreamer-0.10/gst/interfaces, i can not find this header, any advice? Aug 23 14:04:56 xiwang: perhaps fcamera might be of help Aug 23 14:05:39 * lcuk needs to learn how to deal with public speaking really Aug 23 14:06:06 * Gizmokid2005 passes lcuk a beer. This'll help :) Aug 23 14:06:15 heh Aug 23 14:06:32 lcuk: just don't be nervous Aug 23 14:06:37 * lcuk is happier talking to people direct Aug 23 14:06:51 lcuk: and do something with the paper to disallow it flying away Aug 23 14:07:06 Venemo, that I learnt, I had whole presentation on my device ;) Aug 23 14:07:15 but then videoout failed Aug 23 14:07:20 * lcuk cannot win Aug 23 14:07:23 lcuk: from own experience I'd say you can't learn Aug 23 14:07:50 DocScrutinizer, I can however find a way to handle it Aug 23 14:07:52 Venemo: sorry ... i was disturb by my boss Aug 23 14:08:02 lcuk: avoid it :-D Aug 23 14:08:05 I managed it at the 2008 summit, sat down and talking to someone Aug 23 14:08:09 lcuk: that's what I do Aug 23 14:08:13 it didnt matter htne who else was looking ;) Aug 23 14:08:57 talking to 2 or 3 people directly is another game than holding a speech Aug 23 14:09:12 Khertan_work: no problem :) Aug 23 14:09:17 oh that part is easy DocScrutinizer Aug 23 14:09:23 aw cmon Aug 23 14:09:39 lcuk: you have 2 months to prepare :) Aug 23 14:10:06 sure wazd, but deadline is today and I have to walk through what I want to talk about Aug 23 14:10:18 well, I for one doubt I know how to speak at all. Prolly forgot about it some years ago. Just can listen to TV and chat :-P Aug 23 14:10:34 Venemo: yep conny is the author of conboy Aug 23 14:10:53 lcuk: ah, just propose and then sort things out :) Aug 23 14:11:06 Khertan_work: point is, what I was thinking about is to add a D-Bus method to Sticky Notes which would allow other apps to show notes in Sticky Notes Aug 23 14:11:46 wazd you are right of course :) Aug 23 14:11:55 thanks Aug 23 14:12:32 * lcuk tosses a coin at technical or community talk Aug 23 14:12:47 lcuk: community Aug 23 14:13:07 heh i wrote most of that at the last summit :) Aug 23 14:13:08 lcuk: We can rehearse the day before the conference if you want ;) Aug 23 14:13:15 * DocScrutinizer suggests to lcuk to look at xyawn ;-D Aug 23 14:13:20 * MohammadAG51 tosses a coin at lcuk Aug 23 14:13:21 X-Fade, :) good idea Aug 23 14:13:22 lcuk: Over beers that always works :) Aug 23 14:13:42 X-Fade: I think one drunk presenter is enough :D Aug 23 14:13:44 ~literal xyawn Aug 23 14:13:45 "xyawn" is "good coffee||coffee||nap||nice coffee||sleep||strong coffee||big coffee" Aug 23 14:13:48 Much beer to be imbibed. Aug 23 14:13:52 X-Fade: and that will be me :) Aug 23 14:13:59 ~xyawn Aug 23 14:13:59 wazd: Lol ;) Aug 23 14:14:00 rumour has it, xyawn is nice coffee Aug 23 14:14:12 apt, it's out :-/ Aug 23 14:14:26 ok, i have to finish this dependency chain stuff I have in other window Aug 23 14:14:30 * lcuk kicks it a few times Aug 23 14:14:35 I have until midnight don't i? Aug 23 14:15:27 midnight UGT Aug 23 14:16:13 Venemo: it s an idea ... Aug 23 14:16:28 Venemo: maybe you could also add a plugin system :) Aug 23 14:30:21 It's not fair that muscle memory typos happen on the N900 keyboard too. Aug 23 14:30:37 Khertan_work: what sort of plugin system? Aug 23 14:30:58 GAN900: like 'm' instead of space? Aug 23 14:31:39 DocScrutinizer, in this case, I combined surprise and suppress for "surpress". <_< Aug 23 14:31:45 actually that happens when going from the N900 to an N97 Aug 23 14:31:52 Fingers crossed for global spellcheck in Harmattan. Aug 23 14:31:54 the space bar is a bit small on the N97 Aug 23 14:32:37 GAN900: fingers crossed for the ability to turn it off... :P Aug 23 14:32:42 MohammadAG51: smaller than on N900? O.O Aug 23 14:32:58 MohammadAG51: why did you go to an N97? Aug 23 14:33:24 DocScrutinizer, yes, the N900's is wider Aug 23 14:33:38 ffs Aug 23 14:33:39 Venemo, i didn't, had one in july and sold it in november Aug 23 14:33:53 but i was at a nokia shop the other day so I played with it Aug 23 14:34:20 opened notes and typed a whole paragraph of crap, i hit m instead of space Aug 23 14:34:30 heh, here all you can 'play with' are dummy phones Aug 23 14:34:31 the space bar is waaay too far Aug 23 14:34:50 they had the N97, X6 and the mini operational Aug 23 14:34:53 Venemo, why's that? Aug 23 14:34:56 the rest were dummies Aug 23 14:35:21 GAN900: multiple reasons Aug 23 14:36:07 OK then Aug 23 14:36:13 autocomplete for sure is a major PITA Aug 23 14:36:39 indeed Aug 23 14:36:45 I doubt auto spellcheck will be any better Aug 23 14:37:05 doesn't have to be auto Aug 23 14:37:06 Not auto Aug 23 14:37:09 Built in Aug 23 14:37:15 Like it is on OS X Aug 23 14:37:19 Red underline Aug 23 14:37:25 as highlighted by tehkseven in a video, noobs was corrected to boobs on an iPhone Aug 23 14:37:32 hmm, might be bearable Aug 23 14:37:33 but that was for commedy purposes :P Aug 23 14:37:45 hmm, typo Aug 23 14:37:45 LOL Aug 23 14:37:47 Tap and hold to see suggestions, maybe a shortcut to show a spelling window. Aug 23 14:37:50 comedy* Aug 23 14:38:20 Auto correction makes me want to throw the iPhone through a brick wall. Aug 23 14:38:29 GAN900: first, spellcheck is usually not available for my language Aug 23 14:38:38 Venemo: what is your language? Aug 23 14:38:44 ^ Aug 23 14:38:53 C? Aug 23 14:38:55 zulu? Aug 23 14:38:58 GAN900: and even if it is, it's usually crap Aug 23 14:39:03 Esperanto? Aug 23 14:39:04 crashanddie: Hungarian Aug 23 14:39:05 kanjii? Aug 23 14:39:22 no spellcheck for hungarian? Aug 23 14:39:30 :-S Aug 23 14:39:38 crashanddie: the N900 doesn't support Hungarian... Aug 23 14:39:43 oh Aug 23 14:39:52 OSX does... :P Aug 23 14:40:16 crashanddie: and even if it did, I would most likely turn it off. It is crap even in properitary software (like MS Word and the sort) Aug 23 14:40:20 well, all my spellcheckers are set to Englsih anyway :-D Aug 23 14:40:34 crashanddie, install the SL Graphics update? Aug 23 14:40:37 and obviously doesn't help XP Aug 23 14:40:37 DocScrutinizer: what is your native language? :) Aug 23 14:40:39 any GCC/G++ experts? Aug 23 14:40:43 de_DE Aug 23 14:40:51 DocScrutinizer: ah :) Aug 23 14:40:51 GAN900: not enough free space on hard drive, haven't updated OSX in a couple of months Aug 23 14:40:59 GAN900: I'll do it tonight, is the difference that big? Aug 23 14:41:15 DocScrutinizer: I thought so by your first name Aug 23 14:41:29 crashanddie, about 30-40% improvement in a lot of cases here. Aug 23 14:41:36 GAN900: also on desktop? Aug 23 14:41:44 GAN900: or only games? Aug 23 14:41:50 is OS X good? Aug 23 14:41:56 crashanddie, only noticed it on games. Aug 23 14:42:12 MohammadAG51: OS X is os-x Aug 23 14:42:23 crashanddie, most of the improvements probably would affect Quartz. Aug 23 14:42:24 anyways, I have seen no software yet that could correctly handle Hungarian inflection and grammar, this is all Aug 23 14:42:30 Oh SuX? Aug 23 14:42:32 MohammadAG51, I like it. Aug 23 14:42:37 But I'm biased. Aug 23 14:42:41 comas x Aug 23 14:42:41 MohammadAG51: it works, de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum Aug 23 14:43:11 Hum meego booted ... nothing to see ... Aug 23 14:43:31 french, meh :P Aug 23 14:43:35 move on! move on! nothing to see... Aug 23 14:43:46 one of my roommates used OS X at a time... I wanted to leave him a note on the screen. It took me 10 minutes to find a "Notepad"-stlyle application on it Aug 23 14:43:46 MohammadAG51: latin Aug 23 14:43:53 MohammadAG51: noob Aug 23 14:44:02 who the fuck mixes up latin and french :P Aug 23 14:44:03 LOL Aug 23 14:44:11 rotfl Aug 23 14:44:14 est in both languages :P Aug 23 14:44:48 I'd bet MohammadAG51's French is better than yours, crashanddie Aug 23 14:44:59 DocScrutinizer: I'd bet against that Aug 23 14:45:13 DocScrutinizer: I live in France, remember? Aug 23 14:45:29 yep, that's why I even bother to ponder Aug 23 14:46:00 sadly, my French is actually better than most frenchmen Aug 23 14:46:03 crashanddie: you know French is official language in several arabic countries? Aug 23 14:46:29 DocScrutinizer: yeah, but not IL Aug 23 14:46:59 plus, IL really isn't an arabic country :P Aug 23 14:47:11 not sure about Jordan though Aug 23 14:47:28 MohammadAG51: you in Jordan these days? Aug 23 14:47:29 Venemo, Text Edit. Aug 23 14:47:40 MohammadAG51: stop moving around the planet, it's hard to track you, even the satellites lost you Aug 23 14:47:41 Venemo, there's also a postit widget in the dashboard. :) Aug 23 14:47:53 Venemo, familiarity is everything. Aug 23 14:47:57 GAN900: there wasn't on his machine at the time Aug 23 14:48:08 I need a GCC/G++ expert Aug 23 14:48:09 NAO Aug 23 14:48:15 GAN900: I agree with your thought about familiarity though :) Aug 23 14:48:45 crashanddie, yeah, going home on thursday Aug 23 14:48:55 plus i passed the DELF crap you guys do Aug 23 14:49:06 GAN900: I couldn't find the equivalent of an "App launcher" or a "Start menu" on it, either. There were a bunch of icons on the bottom of the screen, none of which was a text editor Aug 23 14:49:16 delf? Aug 23 14:49:21 you work in a mine? Aug 23 14:49:24 Venemo, much like the tap-outside for dialogs in Maemo 5. Aug 23 14:49:27 crashanddie: >>>Location: Amman, Jordan<<< (tmo \o/) Aug 23 14:49:39 Which I don't think I could live without now. Aug 23 14:50:02 DocScrutinizer: echo "127.0.0.1 talk.maemo.org" >> /etc/hosts Aug 23 14:50:13 X-P Aug 23 14:50:14 Venemo, Quicksilver FTW *g* Aug 23 14:50:37 Hi Aug 23 14:50:53 Venemo: cmd+space textedit Aug 23 14:51:18 there's no start menu Aug 23 14:51:21 it would be ridiculous Aug 23 14:51:38 all programs are bundles in /Applications/ Aug 23 14:51:52 (directories with a Info.plist inside) Aug 23 14:52:11 * DocScrutinizer burps Aug 23 14:52:52 kerio, leave the internet immediately. As if the Mac faggotry wasn't already enough at the moment, we didn't need a storm trooper coming in Aug 23 14:52:57 :P Aug 23 14:53:14 huh? it's something that makes sense, given the application-centric nature of cocoa Aug 23 14:53:18 kerio, GAN900: thanks for enlightening me Aug 23 14:53:58 kerio, it... was... a... joke... Aug 23 14:54:10 i know Aug 23 14:54:13 i was just explaining Aug 23 14:54:23 dunno, it's something that happens automatically once you have a mac Aug 23 14:54:26 horreey sheet. Don't have you speakers right up while pressing right arrow key on your keyboard Aug 23 14:54:31 kerio: what? Aug 23 14:54:32 must be a reality distortion field Aug 23 14:54:37 Venemo, not that it matters. :D Aug 23 14:54:41 Or backspace! Aug 23 14:54:55 I'm going to have to find the system noise setting and turn THEM off Aug 23 14:54:55 Venemo: you feel the need to explain shit about macs to anyone who's having a *slightly* related discussion Aug 23 14:54:56 :P Aug 23 14:55:07 kerio: aah... Aug 23 14:55:23 kerio: well there is a distortion field really :) Aug 23 14:55:47 Venemo, nah Aug 23 14:55:57 kerio just has a man-crush on the jobsman Aug 23 14:56:26 kerio: anyways, I've been distorted by the other Steve :D Aug 23 14:57:07 Venemo, anyone who has watched Steve Ballmer's "developers rant" will be distorted forever Aug 23 14:57:51 Termana: xD Aug 23 14:57:55 Termana: http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=gY5H7WoK0PM Aug 23 14:58:01 < Termana> Venemo, anyone who has watched Steve Ballmer will be distorted forever, t,ftfy Aug 23 14:58:11 DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS Aug 23 14:58:16 DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS Aug 23 14:58:22 Venemo: a plugin system for supporting reading note from other path / format Aug 23 14:58:24 DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS Aug 23 14:58:34 ! WARNING: Spam attempt by kerio on #maemo ! Aug 23 14:58:44 kerio, my god, I think I'm going to need to go the therapy now Aug 23 14:58:59 crashanddie: :( Aug 23 14:59:09 kerio: it's just my script not liking balmer :D Aug 23 14:59:13 DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS Aug 23 14:59:15 ~$ deluser kerio Aug 23 14:59:15 better? Aug 23 14:59:28 more like da luser Aug 23 14:59:43 Khertan_work: that sounds like a bit of an overshoot for this little project Aug 23 14:59:47 $ luser kerio Aug 23 14:59:48 yes Aug 23 15:00:45 $ du --insulting /home/slauwers Aug 23 15:00:46 Obese Aug 23 15:00:50 ~ $ python -m 'from balistic import AutoGuide; import nuclear; nuclear.BalisticMissile(AutoGuide(kerio)).fire() Aug 23 15:00:52 ' Aug 23 15:01:19 nuclear should be in the balistic package Aug 23 15:01:21 When I clicked the Apple logo and then pressed About mac on OS X the other day, it logged out and logged back in Aug 23 15:01:25 Thats how great OS X is Aug 23 15:01:41 Termana: works here :| Aug 23 15:01:44 Termana: [citation needed] Aug 23 15:02:11 * DocScrutinizer cackles Aug 23 15:02:40 idly searching for legendary balmer rap movie Aug 23 15:02:41 * crashanddie calls the fanbois squad: "Quick guys, somebody's criticising an Apple product!" Aug 23 15:02:45 ~nuke kerio Aug 23 15:02:46 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at kerio ... B☢☢M! Aug 23 15:03:06 DocScrutinizer, you mean the one where he admits he is a piece of shit? Aug 23 15:03:14 :P Aug 23 15:03:17 "Yo momma's so fat, she doesn't fit in UTF-16" Aug 23 15:03:41 I mean the one where somebody remixed his "DEVELOPERS" for a rap song Aug 23 15:04:19 Venemo: but how to keep note sync ? running a daemon in background ? Aug 23 15:04:43 DocScrutinizer: the one where he also screams like a monkey? Aug 23 15:05:00 Khertan_work: my thought would be... giving a callback to D-Bus Aug 23 15:05:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE Aug 23 15:05:27 I'm sorry, the one I was talking about he actually admits to loving penis, not being a piece of shit Aug 23 15:06:09 Termana, what's wrong with that? Aug 23 15:06:23 DocScrutinizer, oh. my. Someone should be arrested for that Aug 23 15:06:30 GAN900, nothing? Aug 23 15:06:37 OK then Aug 23 15:06:40 Venemo: yep ... but this require that what call your call back is running while sticky note is displayed Aug 23 15:06:56 or maybe i didn't understood well :) Aug 23 15:07:04 Khertan_work: mm... this is a valid thought. Aug 23 15:07:52 I wonder if someone could convince Steve Jobs to do the developers jiggle. That would be a sight to see Aug 23 15:08:13 Khertan_work: well, even easier than that, I could just write a piece of code that takes care of this within Sticky Notes Aug 23 15:08:44 Venemo: this is an other simple solution Aug 23 15:08:55 Khertan_work: simple is what I look for Aug 23 15:09:21 so i think the best way is to apply a xlst transformation to the xml Aug 23 15:11:38 Khertan_work: hi again Aug 23 15:12:08 Khertan_work: sorry, my laptop froze... Aug 23 15:12:52 :) Aug 23 15:13:16 i think the best way is to apply a xslt transformation to the xml note ... Aug 23 15:13:24 to convert them to html :) Aug 23 15:13:45 Venemo_N900: http://manatlan.free.fr/setup/tomboy2html.tar.gz Aug 23 15:13:51 Khertan_work: are you familiar enough with xslt? Aug 23 15:14:37 Venemo_N900: not really ;) Aug 23 15:15:02 Khertan_work: what is the XML format you use in Conboy? Aug 23 15:20:09 given a package, something like libc6 - how do I find out how big its .deb is? Aug 23 15:20:30 apt-get won't even do download only because its already installed Aug 23 15:20:43 and apt-cache wont tell me its filename Aug 23 15:22:19 lcuk, Aug 23 15:22:34 apt-get --reinstall -d install libc6 Aug 23 15:22:44 :) !! great Aug 23 15:22:57 Need to get 3535kB of archives. Aug 23 15:23:08 thats complete, I need specific files Aug 23 15:23:26 thats ok, I can do based on that --reinstall option, ta Aug 23 15:23:32 yw :) Aug 23 15:25:29 Khertan_work: if you use Tomboy's format, it already has a plugin that converts to HTML (so we could use its source), so only the opposite conversion needs writing Aug 23 15:25:55 back Aug 23 15:26:54 Venemo: i'm not the author of conboy :) but conboy use the same format as tomboy Aug 23 15:27:34 Khertan_work: yeah you already told that :) Aug 23 15:28:01 Khertan_work: initially I thought you were :P Aug 23 15:28:10 nope :) Aug 23 15:28:24 just that i really like this apps :) Aug 23 15:28:37 my project are exclusively coded with python Aug 23 15:28:58 and even if i have a tomboy clone that i made for n900 which i ve never release Aug 23 15:33:04 Khertan_work: ah, I undestand :) Aug 23 15:37:39 hey! Aug 23 15:37:47 why does the N900 reboot when killing Xorg? :P Aug 23 15:38:02 it's on a upstart leash Aug 23 15:38:07 oh. Aug 23 15:38:21 upstart reboot swhen X dies? Aug 23 15:38:23 and a vital process Aug 23 15:39:50 any1 else to beta test puzlle game for maemo? Aug 23 15:39:56 it's Vexed clone Aug 23 15:41:00 Stskeeps: tell that to my headless server Aug 23 15:42:13 kerio, likely there's a way to adjust the list of vital processes.. or perhaps run in the developer mode to disable watchdog altogether. Aug 23 15:42:21 kerio, so you're using n900 as a headless server? Aug 23 15:42:31 flux: no, i'm using a sheevaplug Aug 23 15:42:34 but i could use a n900 Aug 23 15:42:41 it's only slightly slower Aug 23 15:42:49 half the cpu, half the ram, actually Aug 23 15:43:16 argh, I mixed you up with venemo :) Aug 23 15:43:40 a n900 as a server has the problem of using a wireless connection Aug 23 15:43:50 * kerio wants a N900 with an ethernet port Aug 23 15:44:34 but hey Aug 23 15:44:38 usb-"inverter" (usb host device that acts as a host controller for a plugged in device)?:D Aug 23 15:44:47 builtin UPS, builtin backup connection Aug 23 15:45:20 flux: what about me? Aug 23 15:45:37 jaska: hmm, could be an idea Aug 23 15:45:41 but you don't get the fastcharge this way Aug 23 15:45:42 ._. Aug 23 15:47:00 just ethernet over usb then Aug 23 15:47:09 hmm... can you get fastcharge *and* data over usb? Aug 23 15:47:09 common, sluggish. test my game! Aug 23 15:47:11 ;) Aug 23 15:47:34 brb Aug 23 15:47:53 what game? Aug 23 15:49:00 inb4 lost the game Aug 23 15:49:10 at last. vexed clone Aug 23 15:49:25 Charging is completely seperate from any other subsystem Aug 23 15:49:51 kerio: check vexed.sf.net to get the idea. Aug 23 15:50:24 SpeedEvil: yeah but fastcharge is only enabled when a couple of pins are shortcircuited Aug 23 15:50:48 no, it's not. Aug 23 15:50:59 oh, you can enable it with a bme replacement? Aug 23 15:51:00 neat Aug 23 15:51:02 The current software stack does that Aug 23 15:51:12 and the emergency charge system Aug 23 15:51:13 :) Aug 23 15:51:14 it's not hardware level other than before boot Aug 23 15:51:25 i see Aug 23 15:51:43 (what was it again on the safecharge? .1A with usb, .5A with fastcharger?) Aug 23 15:51:56 It's not that simple Aug 23 15:52:05 it will also only charge to 20% or so Aug 23 15:52:19 around that IIRC Aug 23 15:53:03 yeah, i know Aug 23 15:53:12 anyway, the n900 as a server is a kickass idea Aug 23 15:53:24 need, apache2 Aug 23 15:53:53 ok, going home. if any1 interested http://jusrnews.ru/qexed_0.1_armel.deb all bugs to paulaner@gmail.com Aug 23 15:53:56 cu Aug 23 15:54:18 qexed? Aug 23 15:54:29 like vexed but in... qt? Aug 23 15:54:40 let me rephrase Aug 23 15:54:43 Ahahahaha: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6382 Aug 23 15:54:44 Bug 6382: Device becomes sluggish after several days Aug 23 15:54:47 *exed? Aug 23 15:54:55 aklapper closed it (!) with WORKSFORME (!!!) Aug 23 15:55:11 Claims it works fine with his nightly build :) Aug 23 15:55:28 MohammadAG51: a game, vexed.sf.net Aug 23 15:57:03 * RST38h tells himself to stop caring, obeys Aug 23 15:57:24 the resolution "WORKSFORME" is an insult in itself. Aug 23 15:58:43 RST38h, well, to be fair, you did say in comments you would give more info Aug 23 15:58:53 that was in november Aug 23 15:59:08 nomis, nah, that's PEBCAK Aug 23 16:00:53 and if you can add valuable new ifo on system now, I am sure andre__ will be happy to re-evaluate as he already says in the report Aug 23 16:01:01 :) Aug 23 16:01:05 info Aug 23 16:03:40 anyone know a channel related to the makefile command? Aug 23 16:04:46 crashanddie: make = gmake = gnu make = .... Aug 23 16:04:52 or maybe you'll know lcuk, how do I get make to convert any .C file into .new.C using the following command: $(CXX) -E FILENAME.C $(CFLAGS) $(EFLAGS) $(CHINC) > FILENAME.new.C Aug 23 16:05:16 FILENAME being different for every .C in the dir Aug 23 16:05:56 crashanddie, can't you use cp instead of ($CXX) Aug 23 16:06:03 eh? Aug 23 16:06:13 lcuk: g++ -E actually does shit to the file Aug 23 16:06:13 to convert any .C file into .new.C Aug 23 16:06:26 pass Aug 23 16:06:29 k Aug 23 16:06:32 thanks though Aug 23 16:07:53 crashanddie:skip make, use bash, newfile=`echo $filename | cut -f1 -d.`;gcc -o $newfile $filename Aug 23 16:08:08 actually $newfile.new.C Aug 23 16:08:12 toggles_w: I can't skip make, got way too many includes and deps Aug 23 16:11:01 i think you should try harder Aug 23 16:11:10 ;-) Aug 23 16:14:03 RST38h: no (!), I don't claim (!) it worked in my nightly build (!) Aug 23 16:18:23 ~seen qgil Aug 23 16:18:25 qgil was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 5d 19h 4m 55s ago, saying: 'I guess it's a beautiful road trip - difficult to convince my manager to cover as "meeting with Intel" ;)'. Aug 23 16:18:33 andre__: you forgot to enable FULL CAPS MODE Aug 23 16:18:50 slonopotamus, oops :) Aug 23 16:29:09 hey again Aug 23 16:32:51 RST38h, that's policy. Aug 23 16:32:59 RST38h, fix the moreinfo and reopen. Aug 23 16:33:29 andre__, as a datapoint, mine becomes unusable unless I reboot every two days or so. Aug 23 16:34:06 uhm Aug 23 16:36:02 GAN900, hmm Aug 23 16:36:51 As a datapoint, mine does not. Aug 23 16:37:45 See how useful that is? Aug 23 16:38:11 I think it's stuff soping up all of the free RAM and swap-hell engaging. Aug 23 16:39:54 GAN900: how much is your swappiness setting? Aug 23 16:40:07 Stocl Aug 23 16:40:09 100 Aug 23 16:40:16 Dropping it to 30 helped a bit. Aug 23 16:41:14 GAN900: that is what I was going to recommend Aug 23 16:41:17 GAN900: :) Aug 23 16:41:52 GAN900: btw, I wonder, GA means that you're GeneralAntilles? Aug 23 16:42:23 Venemo, yes. Aug 23 16:43:54 Venemo: took me a year to realise Aug 23 16:44:11 GAN900: okay :) Aug 23 16:44:18 Stskeeps: yeah, I haven't realised it either Aug 23 16:44:38 Stskeeps: I was also surprised to find out that DocScrutinizer is Joerg Aug 23 16:45:57 I prefer to keep my nickname the same wherever I can :) Aug 23 16:46:10 Stskeeps, no shit? Aug 23 16:46:50 Stskeeps: huh :) just half a year for me Aug 23 16:47:10 GAN900: yeah Aug 23 16:47:45 Well, the cloak should help. Aug 23 16:49:56 GAN900: cloak? :P Aug 23 16:50:31 I asked in the channel when I first spoke to GA in a /priv window. and it was before cloaks GAN900. Aug 23 16:50:54 Venemo: he wants everyone to do /whois GAN900 Aug 23 16:51:52 Venemo: supposedly just because GAN900 wants to show off so everyone sees he has n900 :P Aug 23 16:52:50 http://www.theonion.com/articles/hollywood-rangers-to-manage-overpopulation-problem,17920/ :) Aug 23 16:53:37 slonopotamus: I thought he's just connecting from an N900... I also name myself 'Venemo_N900' when connected from there :) Aug 23 16:54:08 slonopotamus, RX-51, if we're being precise. :P Aug 23 16:54:25 Which is, presumably, the basis of MohammadAG51 :) Aug 23 16:54:50 Jaffa: hm, never would have figured this out myself Aug 23 16:58:19 * khyz waves to everybody Aug 23 17:03:22 hi, khyz Aug 23 17:03:57 Jaffa, hey, at least it didn't take you a whole year to realize that :P Aug 23 17:04:05 Venemo, hello _o/ Aug 23 17:07:01 MohammadAG51: so, MohammadAG is your nick from your laptop and MohammadAG51 is from your N900? Aug 23 17:07:14 MohammadAG51: so, what are your long-term plans wrt hildon-desktop? :) Aug 23 17:09:37 MohammadAG51, this will interest you http://twitter.com/bilboed/status/21928755880 Aug 23 17:10:12 X-Fade: slacker! Aug 23 17:10:36 X-Fade: bug 9902 (damn, i already have its number in memory) Aug 23 17:10:40 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9902 Autocleaner purged _all_ versions of sflphone-client-gnome from extras-devel Aug 23 17:11:10 is whole http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop abandoned or smth else? Aug 23 17:11:29 it's pretty amazing that people still link to slides from the maemo summit in amsterdam, but I don't know from where Aug 23 17:13:30 errr? google? Aug 23 17:13:32 OMCK Aug 23 17:14:07 DocScrutinizer: no, no referer Aug 23 17:14:20 ptmn_: sorry? Aug 23 17:14:31 ~wtf omck Aug 23 17:14:33 Gee... I don't know what omck means... Aug 23 17:15:32 infobot: we neither Aug 23 17:15:55 **neither do we** Aug 23 17:16:45 crashanddie: that's kinda broken word order (even if it's official) Aug 23 17:16:57 it's not official, it's right Aug 23 17:17:09 either "us neither", or "neither do we", not "we neither". Aug 23 17:17:10 still broken :) Aug 23 17:17:46 us like to move it, move it! Aug 23 17:17:47 :D Aug 23 17:18:05 Venemo: ( MohammadAG51 ) how the heck did you know? Aug 23 17:18:46 and ftw Aug 23 17:18:46 DocScrutinizer51: what? Aug 23 17:19:03 slonopotamus: you do realize that you were talking to a bot, don't you? Aug 23 17:19:29 Venemo: sure. they usually have more logic than people Aug 23 17:20:17 I can do that Aug 23 17:21:30 190540 MohammadAG51: so, MohammadAG is your nick from your laptop and MohammadAG51 is from your N900? Aug 23 17:21:38 how's the java project called that allows you to make images from java code? Aug 23 17:22:11 img like in run locally? Aug 23 17:23:03 ~wtf joerg Aug 23 17:23:05 Gee... I don't know what joerg means... Aug 23 17:23:06 no, like artwork Aug 23 17:23:13 infobot: logic Aug 23 17:23:14 Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence. Aug 23 17:23:47 infobot: attack slonopotamus_42 Aug 23 17:23:48 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing slonopotamus_42 Aug 23 17:24:07 joerg_42: ah, yes. It is quite logical if one figures out that 51 is from RX-51 :) Aug 23 17:24:34 infobot is she? Aug 23 17:24:45 ~burn slonopotamus_42 Aug 23 17:24:46 * infobot pours gasoline all over slonopotamus_42, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Aug 23 17:25:15 slonopotamus_42: infobot is a funny bot that can do some handy things. Try ~nuke Aug 23 17:26:13 DocScrutinizer51: btw, where does the name DocScrutinizer come from? :) Aug 23 17:26:45 from scrutinizing docs obviously ;-P Aug 23 17:27:09 or was it F.Z. ? Aug 23 17:27:51 DocScrutinizer: F.Z. = ? Aug 23 17:28:10 F.Z. Joe's Garage Aug 23 17:28:45 DocScrutinizer: sorry, I'm not familiar with F.Z. Joe. Aug 23 17:29:02 http://www.google.de/search?q=F.Z.+Joe's+Garage&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 Aug 23 17:29:35 http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=F.Z.+Joe's+Garage+scrutinizer Aug 23 17:32:50 hello Aug 23 17:33:52 quick question, if I understand these docs correctly, you're required to build your own meego image. There is no prebuilt image? amiright? Aug 23 17:34:38 ~lick Venemo Aug 23 17:34:39 * infobot licks Venemo *SHLUUURRRRPPP* Aug 23 17:36:42 Mece: ask Stskeeps on #meego Aug 23 17:36:46 ~nuke slonopotamus Aug 23 17:36:50 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at slonopotamus ... B☢☢M! Aug 23 17:37:29 miss! Aug 23 17:38:09 Mece: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php Aug 23 17:38:12 has images Aug 23 17:38:43 Stskeeps, thankee-sai Aug 23 17:39:08 Stskeeps: the problem with that link is that is isn't present on meego.org? Aug 23 17:39:29 slonopotamus: agreed, working on that Aug 23 17:39:31 and .com Aug 23 17:39:58 slonopotamus: we are working to move all our blobs to redistribute and in non-oss section. Aug 23 17:40:04 all/our few Aug 23 17:40:06 redistributable licensing Aug 23 17:41:16 Stskeeps: mbx, bme and firmwares? Aug 23 17:41:30 slonopotamus: sgx,bme, firmwares Aug 23 17:47:33 lo lma Aug 23 17:47:40 Hi Aug 23 17:48:00 is X-Fade around? Aug 23 17:48:04 how's it going? Aug 23 17:48:11 Stskeeps: really? so MeeGo already supports the N900 drivers? Aug 23 17:48:46 Venemo: we already do this through some rather tougher licensing on tablets-dev.meego.com Aug 23 17:48:49 of course we support the n900 drivers Aug 23 17:48:50 :P Aug 23 17:49:09 so. anyone has any plans wrt hildon? Aug 23 17:49:09 'real' meego releases should soon Aug 23 17:49:14 slonopotamus: smoku's working on it Aug 23 17:49:23 Stskeeps: link? Aug 23 17:49:27 Well, I decided to pull the trigger and push the Diablo SSU into the stable repository, but the import cron job doesn't seem to kick in... Aug 23 17:49:52 Stskeeps: does he use irc? :) Aug 23 17:50:39 slonopotamus: yes Aug 23 17:51:00 slonopotamus, depends on all of us. MohammadAG51 has a number of patches and investigations, smoku has a branch in meego, the knowledge is around and people still have a great deal of interest and obviously we have a great many of apps relying on it Aug 23 17:52:20 Stskeeps: the phone driver is supported as well? Aug 23 17:52:39 jaffa: ping Aug 23 17:52:44 Venemo: yes, through ofono and pulseaudio modules Aug 23 17:52:45 you did hermes, righta? Aug 23 17:52:50 Venemo: but not integrated yet Aug 23 17:53:00 Stskeeps: hm, this is very good progress :) Aug 23 17:53:07 * timeless wants to write a photo import thing Aug 23 17:53:14 Stskeeps: congrats! :) Aug 23 17:53:23 lma, probably signed off for the evening. Aug 23 17:53:29 slonopotamus: the Hildon libs are planned to be ported to MeeGo Aug 23 17:53:39 planning is easy Aug 23 17:53:41 doing, not so much Aug 23 17:54:05 GAN900, yeah I figured. I'll take it to email Aug 23 17:54:11 Nokia donated a bunch of money to the GNOME Foundation to help. Aug 23 17:54:26 lcuk: branch in meego?! why? Aug 23 17:54:33 Stskeeps: I heard the other day that some guys already did it (or working on it?) Aug 23 17:54:40 MohammadAG51: patches suck, use proper repos Aug 23 17:55:08 Venemo: we've had call audio on a open stack, if that's what you're wondering.. Aug 23 17:56:05 Stskeeps: no, I was talking about Hildon Aug 23 17:56:19 Venemo: oh Aug 23 17:56:25 i ported hildon to stock gtk Aug 23 17:56:33 making it nice is someone's else job Aug 23 17:56:36 slonopotamus, sigh. with applications in maemo having a long life and not necessarily being rebuilt from scratch, being able to use them is a good tihng. and as for patches I mentioned, we are collectively looking at doing a clean upgradable SSU, better to put one foot infront of the other Aug 23 17:56:42 Stskeeps: not Hildon-Desktop of course, just the liraries Aug 23 17:57:06 yeah, i kno Aug 23 17:57:09 Stskeeps: although I myself was thinking about porting the destop too personally :) Aug 23 17:57:33 Stskeeps: in the case if the Handset UX turns out to be not that good Aug 23 17:57:43 Venemo: smoku's doing that Aug 23 17:57:48 Stskeeps: really? Aug 23 17:58:09 Stskeeps: huh. the community should keep some sort of list about who's working on what :) Aug 23 17:58:28 Re Aug 23 17:58:30 Stskeeps, so what's the difference between armv7l and armv5tel? Aug 23 17:58:41 mece1: instruction set Aug 23 17:58:55 why am I mece1 I wonders... Aug 23 17:59:09 Venemo, its just starting, make a list if you like, you are in #maemo-ssu :P Aug 23 17:59:45 slonopotamus, ok.. what do I want then? Aug 23 17:59:45 mece: get armv7l Aug 23 17:59:54 Stskeeps, I was planning on doing that. Aug 23 18:00:05 Stskeeps, thanks Aug 23 18:00:37 Stskeeps: Venemo, lcuk, MohammadAG51, smoku could you _please not_ create again a conflicting set of patches but instead setup a single git repo (preferably taking ownership of abandoned hildon repos) and coordinate your efforts there? Aug 23 18:00:40 I hear the next one has better battery control. Perhaps I'll wait until.. wednesday is it? Aug 23 18:01:04 slonopotamus: agreed :) but I'm not working on anything like this :) Aug 23 18:01:18 Venemo: you said you're planning to Aug 23 18:01:32 slonopotamus, gitorious is not abandoned there are people with commit rights and when good patches come they will be merged and used Aug 23 18:01:48 slonopotamus: I said if the Handset UX will not be good. Determining that is a few months ahead :) Aug 23 18:02:07 slonopotamus: I have no free time even to finish Sticky Notes, so... :( Aug 23 18:04:57 lcuk, so it's being claimed. Aug 23 18:05:47 Find its rather less likely to pan out so well given historical precedence. Aug 23 18:07:16 lcuk: a wiki page would be nice where everyone could put their names and what they're working on Aug 23 18:07:17 GAN900, which historical precedence is that then? Aug 23 18:07:24 Venemo, sure, so start one Aug 23 18:07:37 lcuk, Diablo. Aug 23 18:07:51 lcuk: me? really? Aug 23 18:07:58 diablo has had a rocking window manager upgrade recently Aug 23 18:08:05 Telescope is uber cool Aug 23 18:08:35 lcuk: what is it? Aug 23 18:08:40 gives the tiling app dashboard without needing 3d Aug 23 18:08:41 :D Aug 23 18:08:59 lcuk: sounds good :) Aug 23 18:10:26 lcuk, and that has what to do with Nokia, its contractors, or continued maintenance of its repositories? :) Aug 23 18:11:16 Tried android on an N900 today. Pretty smooth. Aug 23 18:12:17 nitdroid? Aug 23 18:12:30 Yeah Aug 23 18:13:42 oh man I hate upgrading my system. I'm still on linux mint 7.... Aug 23 18:14:05 9 being the current version-.. Aug 23 18:21:56 Hi! If anyone is interested I have got aes and sha1+md5 hardware acceleration working, with help from nokia. My driver was correct, but nolo needed to get updated. Aug 23 18:22:16 which device? Aug 23 18:22:21 n900 Aug 23 18:22:30 nolo had to get updated to what? Aug 23 18:23:12 it rebooted after module insertion, so after the nolo update it does not reboot anymore Aug 23 18:24:16 it needs at least hardware revision 2101. Aug 23 18:24:20 ah Aug 23 18:24:54 do you happen to know if btrfs uses kernel acceleration facilities? Aug 23 18:25:05 jacekowski: do you want to host it? Aug 23 18:25:51 Stskeeps: No idea, I still use ext3 on all my machines. Ext4 and btrfs is still to unstable for me. Aug 23 18:26:00 tobis87: fair enough Aug 23 18:26:07 tobis87: got a link to the drivers? Aug 23 18:26:29 tobis87: reason i'm asking is because we're being pushed to btrfs on meego and hardware acceleration in hashing is .. good Aug 23 18:27:27 hey, this may not be fitting in this channel but i didnt find a nokia channel Aug 23 18:27:33 Stskeeps: That's a problem, I don't now where I should post it. I don't have a maemo talk account and no rapidshare. Best way, would be to mail it. Aug 23 18:27:39 so is there an offline way to install nokia pc suite? Aug 23 18:28:23 or is there a way to use tethering with n900 on windows 7 without nokia pc suite Aug 23 18:28:26 ? Aug 23 18:28:29 Stskeeps: I could pastebin the drivers. But for nolo, I don't know. Aug 23 18:28:45 pillum: once you use the n900 w/ pc suite once Aug 23 18:28:46 no need re nolo Aug 23 18:28:52 just curious what version of nolo it was :) Aug 23 18:28:54 you don't need to use pc suite again Aug 23 18:29:02 you don't need to use pc suite again Aug 23 18:29:07 Pillum: why would you want to use pc suite instead of ovi suite? Aug 23 18:29:08 and in fact you don't want to Aug 23 18:29:19 andre: smaller download Aug 23 18:29:37 older crappy ui instead of newer crappy ui Aug 23 18:29:38 Stskeeps: I will check tomorrow, but it's a new flasher: "flasher v2.8.2 (Jan 8 2010)" Aug 23 18:30:07 pillum: i think both give you a "modem" driver Aug 23 18:30:08 tobis87: we have a 2.6.35 kernel tree that can take submissions if that's interesting Aug 23 18:30:19 and set up a basic connection w/ the right password Aug 23 18:30:31 but otherwise, you don't need them Aug 23 18:30:43 it's probably possible to just download the driver Aug 23 18:30:54 and manually create the network Aug 23 18:31:01 tobis87: for n900 Aug 23 18:32:20 Stskeeps: The original drivers http://marc.info/?l=linux-crypto-vger&m=127246430512889&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-crypto-vger&m=127246433512955&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-crypto-vger&m=128231189201194&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-crypto-vger&m=128231189501202&w=2 Aug 23 18:33:01 Stskeeps: I modified them to compile them as standalone modules Aug 23 18:33:40 for what it's worth, i've never been able to get the modem cable driver working for my n900 on win7 Aug 23 18:33:48 when I tether I just have to do it via bluetooth Aug 23 18:34:32 nid0: w7x86 or w7x64? Aug 23 18:34:36 x64 Aug 23 18:35:17 timeless: i dont have nokia pc suite installed anymore...and the only way to go online is to use my handy Aug 23 18:35:34 Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/drHnVb5j http://pastebin.com/hZmW1LYa Aug 23 18:35:47 handy? Aug 23 18:36:00 Pillum: is bluetooth an option? if so, its easy to setup Aug 23 18:36:00 mobile phone Aug 23 18:36:09 nope thats not Aug 23 18:36:47 pillum: so, the smaller download is the BT DUN bit for the n900 Aug 23 18:36:56 i'd try that first Aug 23 18:37:24 no download atall's needed onto the pc for bluetooth, but he just said he has no bluetooth :p Aug 23 18:37:53 is there no offline installer? Aug 23 18:38:07 pillum: most of us don't pay attn Aug 23 18:38:10 does the normal installer just fail with no net connection? Aug 23 18:38:18 pcsuite iirc had an offline installer Aug 23 18:38:29 Here are the kernel modules, including nolo. No need to flash a new kernel: http://rapidshare.com/files/414690756/omap-hw.tar.gz Aug 23 18:38:33 which gave you an out of date not particularly n900 compat app Aug 23 18:38:35 I know it does an update check but assume it would carry on with the current version if it cant get connected Aug 23 18:39:06 then you do an update check which downloads a complete but slightly newer app installer Aug 23 18:40:22 a slightly easier solution, if you have a wifi adaptor in your pc, might be to just use either mobilehotspot (which will need a replacement kernel on the device) or joikuspot light Aug 23 18:40:26 Hm do these look like they might be useable on OMAP2 devices or is it just me? Aug 23 18:41:16 Stskeeps: around? I need your wisdom Aug 23 18:41:18 :D Aug 23 18:41:27 BaTmAn^: how much are you paying for it? Aug 23 18:41:28 lma: You have to check for the defines, but yes they should work on OMAP2 as well. Aug 23 18:41:42 I'll pay you with praise Aug 23 18:41:57 chocolate bar? Aug 23 18:42:05 lma: but the nolo image is of course on compatible with the n900. Aug 23 18:42:05 I hear the praise exchange rate collapsed badly Aug 23 18:42:07 It'll be easy for you just I'm a sucker Aug 23 18:42:14 http://www.nokiausa.com/get-support-and-software/software/nokia-pc-suites/compatibility-and-download#16 Aug 23 18:42:22 claims it's 32mb Aug 23 18:42:32 i sure hope that's an offline installer Aug 23 18:42:34 BaTmAn^: easier to ask and have me ignore you, or answer and then invoice you Aug 23 18:42:40 tobis87: nolo update? Aug 23 18:42:50 tobis87: where you found new nolo? Aug 23 18:42:52 lol Aug 23 18:42:55 hourly rate? Aug 23 18:45:05 Man, I come to the cleverest guy I know and theres no love no more :( Aug 23 18:45:44 on a serious note, do you know any decent android app devlopers? Aug 23 18:45:44 jacekowski: the mantainer of the new driver send it to me Aug 23 18:46:08 google? :) Aug 23 18:46:24 guess they're pretty good :D Aug 23 18:46:28 Any idea what's wrong with the old one? It seems strange that a driver loaded as a module would cause problems in NOLO Aug 23 18:48:15 * BaTmAn^ pesters ShadowJK too Aug 23 18:52:57 nm, figured it Aug 23 18:53:00 typo Aug 23 18:53:10 that could have been an easy chocolate bar Aug 23 18:54:23 jacekowski: I sent you an email with the driver. Aug 23 18:54:38 i'm more interested in nolo Aug 23 18:54:43 btw. with that fmrx Aug 23 18:54:53 have you tried echoing frequency directly into sysfs Aug 23 18:55:00 instead of using v4l Aug 23 18:55:12 tobis87: is your n900 a retail one? Aug 23 18:55:23 Stskeeps: it's HS chip that's important Aug 23 18:55:38 Stskeeps: and how does bootloader configures m-shield settings Aug 23 18:55:47 nolo's probably just a binary. Aug 23 18:56:16 because phone rebooting was probably because of incorrectly handled m-shield exception Aug 23 18:56:19 Stskeeps: Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2104 Aug 23 18:56:30 Stskeeps: it is, but i will know more about m-shield because of it Aug 23 18:56:54 Stskeeps: Don't know, normally buyed. Aug 23 18:59:20 tobis87: who was your nokia contact out of curiousity? Aug 23 18:59:34 jacekowski: I have not used the fmrx more than once. I prefer a cd player with mp3 and optical connection. Aug 23 18:59:38 (i'm from meego n900 hardware adaptation team, hence my interest) Aug 23 18:59:54 Stskeeps: Dmitry Kasatkin Aug 23 19:00:03 tobis87: k Aug 23 19:00:36 how expensive are these n900's? Aug 23 19:01:16 how can I create a newline in a wiki table? Aug 23 19:01:26 jacekowski: But I'm not that mad and you silver cables. Copper cables with small diameter are good enough. Aug 23 19:01:28 http://www.google.com/products?q=n900&aq=f Aug 23 19:01:35 says under 400usd Aug 23 19:01:38 BaTmAn^: depends on where do you wanna buy it and whether you're looking for a used or a new one Aug 23 19:01:55 ehh Aug 23 19:01:59 or maybe uer 300usd Aug 23 19:02:01 it wasn't you with the problem Aug 23 19:02:03 I have a good refurb phone supplier Aug 23 19:02:11 Stskeeps: Oli Pekka Bourne :D Aug 23 19:02:14 BaTmAn^: used prices are quite fair Aug 23 19:02:29 I'll send them a mail Aug 23 19:02:32 is that the best to have? Aug 23 19:02:42 jacekowski: Sorry? Aug 23 19:02:54 somebody had fmrx problem Aug 23 19:03:01 and for a moment i was thinking it was you Aug 23 19:05:38 RST38h: around? Aug 23 19:15:29 moin Aug 23 19:16:18 hey kids Aug 23 19:16:22 wanna see some shit Aug 23 19:16:48 RAM:40208052 LDR R0, =aNoloXLoaderV1_ ; "NOLO X-Loader (v1.4.14, Aug 18 2010)\n" Aug 23 19:16:57 RAM:40208052 LDR R0, =aNoloXLoaderV1_ ; "NOLO X-Loader (v1.4.14, Apr 22 2010)\n" Aug 23 19:17:08 what's wrong with this picture? Aug 23 19:17:31 jacekowski: hmm Aug 23 19:17:34 two different dates? Aug 23 19:17:38 nothing, you never heard of +m5 builds? Aug 23 19:18:24 well, these are two different loaders Aug 23 19:20:51 nah guys, I've created the Who's doing what page in the wiki Aug 23 19:21:08 please, add yourself and your project Aug 23 19:21:08 http://wiki.maemo.org/Who_is_doing_what Aug 23 19:21:31 the guy who ports Hildon-Desktop to MeeGo should add himself, too Aug 23 19:21:48 the guys who said they're porting the Hildon libraries to MeeGo should as well Aug 23 19:21:50 why though? it's a meego project Aug 23 19:21:50 :P Aug 23 19:22:37 Stskeeps: to allow community members to see if there is already someone doing it or not Aug 23 19:22:41 mm Aug 23 19:22:50 (7:59:16 PM) slonopotamus: Stskeeps: Venemo, lcuk, MohammadAG51, smoku could you _please not_ create again a conflicting set of patches but instead setup a single git repo (preferably taking ownership of abandoned hildon repos) and coordinate your efforts there? Aug 23 19:23:00 * Stskeeps ponders if his qt build stalled Aug 23 19:23:07 this inspired Aug 23 19:23:57 Venemo, perhaps the naming is a little generic Aug 23 19:24:00 its not who is doing what Aug 23 19:24:16 lcuk: feel free to edit it :) Aug 23 19:24:20 its related to ssu/system packages? Aug 23 19:24:33 we have MANY people on many projects Aug 23 19:24:49 that have nothing to do with the ssu side of things Aug 23 19:26:20 lcuk: well, good question Aug 23 19:26:23 lcuk: should it be? Aug 23 19:35:24 Stskeeps: For what reason is openssl closed? Does it already have hw accel. enabled? openssl engine, only gives "dynamic engine loading support",but would be nice to get it enabled in there, too. Aug 23 19:35:47 tobis87: afaik it's not closed Aug 23 19:36:09 are there OMAP aes patches for openssl?! Aug 23 19:36:33 stskeeps: is it me or does "for what reason" sound too demanding (hinting of entitlement) Aug 23 19:36:49 yeah, it's open: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/o/openssl/ Aug 23 19:37:12 Stskeeps: Oh you right, I haven't seen the entry at the bottom. Aug 23 19:40:05 lma: No, but it will only be a matter of time. After the kernel driver is now availible. The padlock engine in openssl also took some time to have x86_64 and sha support. Aug 23 19:40:23 lool: sure openssl can't just use kernel crypto algos? Aug 23 19:40:29 er, tobis87 Aug 23 19:41:52 Stskeeps: No, they are different. If you are interested, I had a hell of bug testing the padlock engine in openssl, nothing official but still: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9647303&postcount=488 Aug 23 19:43:36 Stskeeps: And it all begun a year ago: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7167334&postcount=43 Aug 23 19:47:56 tobis87: well, kernel and openssl support are orthogonal. I would *LOVE* an openssl engine for omap-aes. Aug 23 19:54:26 lma: yes, i would too. but i'm not a programmer. i can backport and hack stuff, but i have no idea how i should start. Aug 23 19:54:35 start at the beginning Aug 23 19:57:08 ultrasparc-viii: the strange thing is, whenever i really wanted something to be done and nobody else was doing it, i did it somehow. but most of the time i'm lazy and say myself, why should i learn c the proper way, if everything essential has already been done by someone else. Aug 23 19:57:35 in that case, instead of learning c, you learn python :) Aug 23 19:58:02 tobis87: that is a good way, learn by reading others code. Aug 23 19:58:36 ultrasparc-viii: nah, i really love c, i love hacking kernel modules. Aug 23 20:00:12 you know after you learn 3 or 4 languages they all just become like different versions of a hammer... do you love c or do you love kernel programming - if you could do kernel work in perl would you still do it? Aug 23 20:00:28 johnsq: yes, especially if you have to backport cve security update. Aug 23 20:00:29 a kernel written in perl Aug 23 20:00:29 UGH Aug 23 20:00:38 hahaha, I'd never want to work on it! Aug 23 20:00:56 and I've had my fair share of perl programming too Aug 23 20:01:13 tobis87: unless... is the omap-aes driver cryptodev by any chance? If so then openssl could use it Aug 23 20:02:33 or patching a module, like for example the hda_intel division by zero, http://xorl.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/linux-kernel-alsa-hda-intel-division-by-zero-crash/ Aug 23 20:03:13 "cat /dev/urandom | perl" probably results in something that works Aug 23 20:03:54 ultrasparc-viii: i have the camel book here, but it is so big and i didn't needed a perl program until now. done most things with bash. Aug 23 20:04:03 i mean, perl < /dev/urandom Aug 23 20:08:02 lma: i havn't heard of a cryptodev until now, but i don't think so. It's a crypto_ablkcipher_type, whatever that means, the kernel api changes so fast, it gets always harder to keep track of it. Aug 23 20:19:43 lma: as far as i understand it, you would have to patch programs to make use of the cryptodevice. you could of course patch openssl to use the cryptodevice, but this seems to me as a big mess. program -> openssl -> cryptodev -> kernel_module. it would be better to wait until program -> openssl is possible. if openssl supports it in meego, it could easily be backported. Aug 23 20:19:44 timeless, probably the right approach given the lack of major progress with the reasonable approach. Aug 23 20:20:06 ? Aug 23 20:21:36 I don't think meego will be any different, unless TI somehow surprise us in the next month or so Aug 23 20:22:04 hm? Aug 23 20:22:13 timeless_mbp, about being too entitled. Aug 23 20:23:55 GAN900, Venemo has started a wiki page to collate contributions http://wiki.maemo.org/Who_is_doing_what Aug 23 20:24:53 lma: well stskeeps really shows interest in crypto stuff, so i do expect that they include hw accel. in openssl on the next device. Aug 23 20:25:29 tobis87: i show interest cos we're kinda disadvantaged compared to aava in terms of speed of hashing etc Aug 23 20:25:40 btw there's a job opening for applying the BG2 800x480 mod to gemrb :0 Aug 23 20:25:45 GAN900, would you care to give him some feeback and tips on good wiki editing stuff Aug 23 20:27:09 Well, Nokia seems to be moving away from openssl (everything in Fremantle that can be built to use nss3 does) so I wouldn't hold my breath Aug 23 20:27:22 timeless_mbp, justification should always be to have something closed, not the reverse. ;) Aug 23 20:29:08 Stskeeps: I would go for openssl 0.9.8k, it includes full hmac support. Could speed up ipsec as well. Aug 23 20:30:20 Stskeeps: But the main problem is really, that you need a proper hw engine for openssl, every program would benefit from this. Aug 23 20:31:45 i want transformice on n900 Aug 23 20:37:28 Stskeeps: Every program would benefit from this, because you can force openssl to always use the hw engine: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4451121&postcount=2 http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4464165&postcount=4 Aug 23 20:38:57 tobis87: does that work on n900? Aug 23 20:39:59 kerio: no since we only have hw accel. kernel modules. it would be nice to have this in meego. Aug 23 20:40:56 kerio: and if it is availible in meego, we could easily backport the openssl engine to maemo. Aug 23 20:44:19 It's amazing how much more cpu is used when I use the Qt animations over my own .. Aug 23 20:46:00 Actually, this might be more to blame with my new widget Aug 23 20:47:14 I know the answer is probably no, but is it possible to get the cpu usage for the graphics chip? Aug 23 21:13:45 Anyway, nothing can beat this crypto engine: http://kryptochef.net/indexh2e.htm and the comment from schneider is the best of all http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/06/the_doghouse_kr.html :-D Aug 23 21:16:05 'ello Aug 23 21:48:32 tobis: "Everything can be a KRYPTO key, either randomly computed information, or computed information or not computed information" Aug 23 21:50:46 it looks like there is some facial recognition software being developed for the N900 :) http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/staff/philip.tresadern/proj_facerec.htm Aug 23 21:51:22 b-man`, yeah its been around a while but caught up on Aug 23 21:51:25 * lcuk should visit him Aug 23 21:51:29 its in manchester :) Aug 23 21:51:42 sure :) Aug 23 21:53:13 lcuk, you should show them your liqbase and onedotzero stuff :) Aug 23 21:54:41 b-man`, I was thinking my invar actually Aug 23 21:54:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM Aug 23 21:55:07 use facial recognition with the ui :) Aug 23 21:55:54 yeah :) Aug 23 21:57:08 lcuk: they'd be quite fascinated by that Aug 23 21:57:26 :) mee to Aug 23 21:57:46 b-man`, I took a photo of some notes I had made on my pad Aug 23 21:57:53 and setup invar to show them Aug 23 21:57:59 so my n900 was sat on a blank page Aug 23 21:58:11 but where I moved it the notes showed through :) Aug 23 21:58:25 in their original place :D Aug 23 21:58:42 heh :D Aug 23 22:07:59 thinkpads are pretty awesome Aug 23 22:39:07 has anyone else noticed an issue when you set the camera to night mode, and then change it back, it seems as if the lens stays "zoomed in"...you can fix it by going to the settings and changing the resolution to a lower one and then back to 5M. Aug 23 22:39:13 anyone? Aug 23 22:42:39 interesting Aug 23 22:43:19 Gizmokid2005: how? N900 doesn't have zoom… O.o Aug 23 22:43:45 it does have an optical zoom, but that's what i mean...it acts like it's still "zoomed" in. Aug 23 22:44:04 I don't know how long it's been like this, but I noticed it when I started taking more pictures with night mode in low light because it works sooo much better Aug 23 22:44:42 Gizmokid2005: it *doesn't* have an optical zoom… Aug 23 22:44:56 it does. Aug 23 22:45:00 Gizmokid2005: just tested, no I have not seen that Aug 23 22:45:05 not optical Aug 23 22:45:06 I mean digital Aug 23 22:45:10 it's been one of those days. Aug 23 22:45:22 * Gizmokid2005 headdesks Aug 23 22:45:37 Gizmokid2005: I set the edges of my monitor to fill the image, click on mode->night, then mode->automatic and there is no change Aug 23 22:46:02 asj: I go fullscreen as well...take a picture with night mode...then go back to automatic Aug 23 22:46:21 Gizmokid2005: digital zoom is just software crap Aug 23 22:46:33 and if you notice, it looks like everything is zoomed in...if you go to the settings, change the resolution to (for instance) 3.5M and then back to 5M, you'll see a difference Aug 23 22:46:35 Gizmokid2005: this is full screen...I still have the icons on the side Aug 23 22:46:37 I know that luke-jr. I don't even use it. Aug 23 22:46:42 I know asj, I was just confirming Aug 23 22:46:51 you said "still" Aug 23 22:46:52 Gizmokid2005: so no, I can't conmfirm that bug Aug 23 22:46:53 that's what is most peculiar luke-jr. I do NOT zoom in either mode. Aug 23 22:46:59 luke-jr: ekhm? Aug 23 22:47:05 jacekowski: foreig? Aug 23 22:47:06 luke-jr: i was thinking that it has optical zoom Aug 23 22:47:18 n95 had optical zoom Aug 23 22:47:33 Mine didn't Aug 23 22:47:44 which n95? Aug 23 22:47:49 it seems to "zoom in" as soon as I hit automatic after taking a picture. Aug 23 22:47:51 oO Aug 23 22:47:55 (in night mode that is) Aug 23 22:48:13 that's new to me Aug 23 22:48:15 but like I said, if I toggle resolutions it's fine. Aug 23 22:48:24 n93 had optical zoom Aug 23 22:48:26 not n95 Aug 24 00:37:31 ~botsnack Aug 24 00:37:32 DocScrutinizer: :) Aug 24 00:42:29 ~botsnack Aug 24 00:42:29 aw, gee, luke-jr Aug 24 00:42:42 ~botsmack Aug 24 00:42:43 OWW! Aug 24 00:43:19 ~botsnack Aug 24 00:43:20 :), luke-jr Aug 24 00:49:30 echo adsl connection --tones 0 32 0xffff07f0 32 224 0xffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff7f Aug 24 00:49:35 argh Aug 24 00:50:06 o0 Aug 24 01:16:48 ~botsnack Aug 24 01:16:48 :), b-man` Aug 24 01:27:52 Hello folks. Aug 24 01:28:11 Suo Aug 24 01:29:49 hallo jaem Aug 24 01:30:25 My (non-retail) N900 has started periodically deciding that there is no SIM card inserted. This started a week or two ago, and now happens a couple of times per day. Are there any diagnostic/status features for the radio that I can check before sending it in? Aug 24 01:31:39 It belongs to my university, so we'll probably deal with the local office directly, but I want to be able to give them a better report than what I just said here. Aug 24 01:35:58 Have you tried a different SIM? Aug 24 01:36:09 ie, can you have your phone company give you a new one to test? Aug 24 01:38:14 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10307 look familiar jaem? Aug 24 01:38:15 Bug 10307: Unregistered SIM error Aug 24 01:42:17 Oh, lovely. :/ Aug 24 01:43:46 Yeah, that sounds like it. I assumed it was the phone, and hadn't had time to look into it. Come to think of it, though, despite possessing the phone since just before launch, I have only had a SIM in it since a bit after that report. Aug 24 01:43:53 Well, thanks for clearing that up. Aug 24 01:44:20 Sigh... I like this phone, but good grief. >_< Aug 24 01:51:13 * johnx wonders if that might be two bugs interacting together ... Aug 24 01:51:49 johnx: I suspect so Aug 24 01:52:01 I'm seeing a similar bug - though no modem resets Aug 24 01:52:14 so I bet yours gets triggered less often Aug 24 01:52:34 probably n/m times the modem resets it has a chance to fail at registering the SIM Aug 24 01:52:45 hangon Aug 24 01:54:50 yeah - I have no unexplained modem resets showing in syslog Aug 24 01:54:56 huh Aug 24 01:55:10 well that shoots my theory to hell Aug 24 01:55:25 does your log go as far back as the last time it lost the SIM? Aug 24 01:55:46 Aug 21 02:50:01 Nokia-N900-02-8 iap_conndlg 2.86+0m5[1302]: Unable to show SIM registration failed dialog Aug 24 01:55:51 but I get these quite often Aug 24 01:56:36 do you use airplane mode and/or some applet to switch off the GSM modem? Aug 24 01:56:41 no. Aug 24 01:56:52 I do use 2g/3g switcher applet Aug 24 01:57:07 do the time correspond? Aug 24 01:57:10 no Aug 24 01:57:23 do the times correspond to a certain location you pass? Aug 24 01:57:33 If set to 'dual' it will someimes die, and not come back till I offline/online the modem somehow Aug 24 01:57:37 maybe Aug 24 01:57:50 I need to write a GPS/cellmo logger Aug 24 01:58:06 Problem is that I'm basically using it round the house. Aug 24 02:04:33 SpeedEvil: ./gps3 > log ? Aug 24 02:04:42 ? Aug 24 02:04:46 oh - yeah Aug 24 02:05:03 but I also have to do the dbus logging and correlation and meh. Aug 24 02:05:14 I need to find 10 min to write it when I'm feeling OK. Aug 24 02:05:19 as to 'and not come back till I offline/online the modem somehow', I think cellmo just doesn't retry often Aug 24 02:05:28 what logging/correlation? Aug 24 02:05:37 when it falls off net Aug 24 02:05:51 And it seems to be persistant. Aug 24 02:06:05 It will not come back after several minutes in good signal Aug 24 02:09:05 SpeedEvil: like I said, I think because it doesn't check again for N minutes Aug 24 02:09:11 where N is some multiple of 15 minutes Aug 24 02:10:43 hnn **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 24 02:59:57 2010