**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 25 02:59:57 2010
Aug 25 03:06:05 <pyther> It seems like the SDK installer is hanging
Aug 25 03:06:54 <pyther> "Get:450 http://repository.maemo.org freementle/sdk/free maemo-sdk-dev 5.0+0m5 [2308B]"
Aug 25 03:08:18 <pyther> No bandwidth is being used nor system resources
Aug 25 03:08:35 <johnx> can you wget it and put it into place?
Aug 25 03:09:54 <pyther> I"m not sure where it would go
Aug 25 03:10:05 <johnx> /var/lib/apt/cache
Aug 25 03:10:14 <johnx> with the rest of the *.deb files
Aug 25 03:10:32 <pyther> Do I need to do this on a debian based system?
Aug 25 03:10:43 <pyther> I don't have a /var/lib/opt folder
Aug 25 03:10:54 <pyther> */var/lib/apt
Aug 25 03:11:13 <johnx> gah
Aug 25 03:11:16 <johnx> got it backwards
Aug 25 03:11:30 <johnx> it's /var/cache/apt/archives
Aug 25 03:11:55 <johnx> obviously I can't remember paths properly unless I'm typing them into a shell
Aug 25 03:12:00 <johnx> I blame tab-complete ...
Aug 25 03:12:15 <pyther> well I don't have /var/cache/apt either
Aug 25 03:13:26 <johnx> well that's ... interesting
Aug 25 03:13:44 <pyther> though I'm runnning archlinux a non-debian based distro
Aug 25 03:14:09 <johnx> yeah. I mean the /var/cache/apt that's *inside* the scratchbox chroot ...
Aug 25 03:14:24 <pyther> where is the chroot ?
Aug 25 03:14:29 <lcuk> pyther, the instructions are based around debian as you are aware, speak with your arch buddies about using scratchbox in it
Aug 25 03:14:40 <lcuk> as an arch fan, you should be used to handling this :)
Aug 25 03:14:59 <lcuk> morning johnx \o
Aug 25 03:15:06 <johnx> mornin' lcuk
Aug 25 03:15:09 <pyther> I figured the installer would be distro independent :-/
Aug 25 03:15:24 <pyther> maybe the virtual sdk image would work better?
Aug 25 03:15:27 <lcuk> pyther, when is that ever the case
Aug 25 03:16:10 <lcuk> pyther, for you using an advanced custom distro, I would say yes
Aug 25 03:16:45 * lcuk cannot sleep
Aug 25 03:17:09 <pyther> Seems like I should probably just install debian and then the sdk on top of it
Aug 25 03:17:25 <pyther> should debian testing work?
Aug 25 03:17:51 <lcuk> sigh
Aug 25 03:18:08 <pyther> lcuk: I'm open to just about anything
Aug 25 03:18:28 <pyther> best would be if someone could compile an up-to-date mplayer for me
Aug 25 03:18:38 <lcuk> then see which distro the instructions are for and use that one
Aug 25 03:18:57 <lcuk> or use the prebuild virtual image if its available to you
Aug 25 03:19:46 <pyther> it says Debian based distribution
Aug 25 03:20:00 <lcuk> johnx, been upto any exciting wii based hacking fun recently?
Aug 25 03:20:04 <pyther> so is one distro better than other for using the sdk exclusively?
Aug 25 03:20:56 <johnx> hmm? I figured the VM image of the SDK would work pretty well
Aug 25 03:21:00 <johnx> is that not the case anymore?
Aug 25 03:21:19 <johnx> lcuk, nah. The most interesting part of the hardware is actually the wiimotes themselves
Aug 25 03:21:23 <johnx> and I'm not big on UI
Aug 25 03:21:28 <pyther> well the last release was in late 2009
Aug 25 03:21:37 <pyther> it looks like the sdk was update in may of this year
Aug 25 03:21:38 <johnx> bummer
Aug 25 03:22:01 <lcuk> if the may2010 is available it should be pretty much right
Aug 25 03:22:54 <pyther> lcuk: not in that virtual image, I'll guess I'll download debian testing install it and then install the sdk
Aug 25 03:22:58 <lcuk> pyther, people with ubuntu seem to have less issues using the gui installed
Aug 25 03:23:04 <lcuk> installer
Aug 25 03:23:13 <pyther> ok then I'll install ubuntu
Aug 25 03:23:21 <pyther> to much work to compile mplayer :P
Aug 25 03:23:40 <lcuk> indeed it is, what feature do you need?
Aug 25 03:23:52 <lcuk> and where are you looking at the latest version?
Aug 25 03:24:15 <pyther> I want to pipe output from rtmpdump into mplayer (doesn't work with the mplayer avaliable)
Aug 25 03:24:34 <lcuk> well are you sure it will work if you build the latest?
Aug 25 03:24:51 <pyther> lcuk: this is where I am working http://maemo.org/packages/view/mplayer/
Aug 25 03:24:55 <lcuk> are you sure the latest will even build, ie are you setting self up for more problems once this stage is done
Aug 25 03:25:23 <pyther> lcuk: I'm pretty sure it will work, it works on my desktop
Aug 25 03:25:33 <lcuk> :)
Aug 25 03:25:39 <lcuk> thats not the same
Aug 25 03:25:56 <pyther> lcuk: I was going to check out the same version that I have on my desktop, if the build fails it will be a result of the arch differnces
Aug 25 03:26:26 <pyther> one of the mplayer guys said mplayer was looking for the header info which it can't get from the pipe
Aug 25 03:28:12 <pyther> once I get mplayer going I should be able to listen to iheartradio without the terrible and slow web ui that I have to use currently
Aug 25 03:28:15 <lcuk> pyther the maemo mplayer appears to have maemo patches
Aug 25 03:28:33 <pyther> lcuk: how where you able to tell?
Aug 25 03:28:34 <lcuk> does your branch have those?
Aug 25 03:29:19 <lcuk> well grep your source for:
Aug 25 03:29:21 <lcuk> * set _HILDON_DO_NOT_DISTURB property
Aug 25 03:30:12 <lcuk> johnx, wiimotes
Aug 25 03:30:25 <lcuk> did you see the inverted AR stuff I have been playing with?
Aug 25 03:30:35 <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM
Aug 25 03:31:07 <lcuk> is the wiimote protocol known?
Aug 25 03:31:16 <johnx> it's bluetooth
Aug 25 03:31:24 <lcuk> i know that
Aug 25 03:31:31 <lcuk> but is the full command protocol known
Aug 25 03:31:35 <johnx> and there are already drivers for the N900 unless I'm quite mistaken
Aug 25 03:31:35 <pyther> lcuk: how did you findout that the maemo mplayer has patches, where did you look to findout this info?
Aug 25 03:31:41 <lcuk> ie to simulate a real wiimote
Aug 25 03:31:50 <lcuk> pyther, you gave the link
Aug 25 03:31:54 <johnx> lcuk, aaaah. now that might be a tall order
Aug 25 03:31:57 <lcuk> it shows versions and changelog
Aug 25 03:32:22 <lcuk> the diablo maemo branch has at least 29revisions
Aug 25 03:32:44 <lcuk> I can't tell how many precisely for the fremantle version
Aug 25 03:33:02 <lcuk> but theres certainly enough potential there
Aug 25 03:33:13 <lcuk> for you to look before you leap
Aug 25 03:33:32 <lcuk> so grep that thing I asked
Aug 25 03:33:46 <lcuk> and if its not there, its likely we have slightly forked difference
Aug 25 03:34:11 <lcuk> and the task for you does not become "to compile mplayer"
Aug 25 03:34:32 <lcuk> but to merge and rebuild
Aug 25 03:35:06 <lcuk> johnx, inverted AR uses a set of lights
Aug 25 03:35:17 <pyther> tux:mplayer $ grep -ri 'HILDON_DO_NOT_DISTURB' * come up empty handed :(
Aug 25 03:35:24 <lcuk> detected using the camera
Aug 25 03:35:34 <lcuk> (sounding familiar)
Aug 25 03:36:02 <johnx> yup. same principle as the wiimote
Aug 25 03:37:10 <lcuk> pyther, on a rating of difficulty, I would put mplayer higher than the kernel for building :)
Aug 25 03:37:40 <pyther> lcuk: so if I really wanted to do this I would have to checkout the 20091221 release (which is in freemantle now) compare the orginal code with the modified code and then merge  it with new sources, correct?
Aug 25 03:38:17 <johnx> uhm, it should have a set of patches that apply to 20091221, so you *should* just have to rework those patches to apply to current, one at a time
Aug 25 03:38:19 <lcuk> sounds reasonable if you are compfortable doing that
Aug 25 03:38:59 <pyther> johnx: there are no patches in that source tarball
Aug 25 03:39:06 <lcuk> indeed johnx
Aug 25 03:39:11 <lcuk> not a task for the faint of heart
Aug 25 03:39:13 <lcuk> :p
Aug 25 03:39:20 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Aug 25 03:39:35 <pyther> and considering I can mudle around in python I believe the task is way to big for me
Aug 25 03:39:36 <Bobbe> lcuk, what lights does the camera detect? (in that youtube video you posted)
Aug 25 03:39:48 <Bobbe> (video = awesome, btw, congratulations)
Aug 25 03:39:52 <lcuk> Bobbe, :) thanks
Aug 25 03:40:07 <lcuk> in the video, it looks for a triangle of 3 white brightest spots
Aug 25 03:40:17 <lcuk> I have since altered the algoythm to use green lights
Aug 25 03:40:23 <lcuk> algorithm
Aug 25 03:40:30 <pyther> so now I need to make a script that will watch stream.flv and if it gets to big nuke rtmpdump
Aug 25 03:40:35 <lcuk> since white is bad around normal life
Aug 25 03:40:43 <pyther> that would work right?
Aug 25 03:40:47 <lcuk> pyther, just watch it on your desktop tonight :P
Aug 25 03:40:56 <Bobbe> lol
Aug 25 03:41:06 <Bobbe> but will green suffice?
Aug 25 03:41:07 <Bobbe> I mean
Aug 25 03:41:13 <pyther> I can do rtmpdump -r rtmp://stream/ -o stream.flv; mplayer stream.flv
Aug 25 03:41:13 <lcuk> and spend a week learning
Aug 25 03:41:22 <Bobbe> you will need something green to reference all the time
Aug 25 03:41:43 <pyther> lcuk: it is an audio stream and I like listening while going to bed :D
Aug 25 03:42:04 <Bobbe> lcuk, and in the video, was the algorithm pre-programmed to look for specific triangulated white patterns to display specific screens?
Aug 25 03:42:35 <Bobbe> or did it it have an initial guideline and built from that as it went?
Aug 25 03:42:53 <pyther> I'll write a script that will start the stream, run for an hour, and then nuke the flv file
Aug 25 03:43:04 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: couldn't the algo learn to learn - err, autocalibrate to arbitrary 'landmarks'
Aug 25 03:43:55 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/n900_lightdots_50_3.png
Aug 25 03:43:55 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20100713_231803.liqcam_run1.scr.png
Aug 25 03:43:59 <lcuk> no DocScrutinizer
Aug 25 03:44:07 <lcuk> Bobbe, ^ those 2 pictures
Aug 25 03:44:25 <johnx> well, first we should develop a general purpose AI ...
Aug 25 03:44:37 <lcuk> it looks for the 3 bright spots
Aug 25 03:44:52 <lcuk> in a triangle with a ratio of 2:2:1
Aug 25 03:45:10 <lcuk> I can pick out size and rotation
Aug 25 03:45:19 <pyther> lcuk and johnx: thanks for your help, although not the news I was looking forward to hearing
Aug 25 03:45:21 <Bobbe> just like a gps would do
Aug 25 03:45:36 <johnx> pyther, hang on a sec
Aug 25 03:45:36 <Bobbe> with satellites
Aug 25 03:45:37 <lcuk> Bobbe, this works to <cm resolution
Aug 25 03:45:40 <lcuk> and indoors
Aug 25 03:45:44 <Bobbe> I know
Aug 25 03:45:51 <Bobbe> I'm just talking about the inherent principle
Aug 25 03:46:08 <Bobbe> with three spots you triangulate a position, or its relative change
Aug 25 03:46:18 <lcuk> I did jokingly think about using star constelations
Aug 25 03:46:23 <DocScrutinizer> you could do with wavelets or somesuch - if you gad 50 time the comuting grunt
Aug 25 03:46:23 <Bobbe> lol
Aug 25 03:46:41 <johnx> DocScrutinizer, send the image off to amazon ec2? :>
Aug 25 03:46:51 <pyther> johnx: ok
Aug 25 03:46:59 <lcuk> it doesnt need that much grunt
Aug 25 03:47:02 <lcuk> its a low res image
Aug 25 03:47:11 <lcuk> and reasonably accurate now
Aug 25 03:47:13 <lcuk> :P
Aug 25 03:48:04 <lcuk> johnx, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdVqdfFdL3Q would be the followup I eep considering
Aug 25 03:48:06 <Bobbe> is it the camera sensor that detects the bright spots?
Aug 25 03:48:10 <lcuk> yes
Aug 25 03:48:54 <lcuk> and if you get a group of devices all showing the same image, you can make a tiled ui or picture viewer :)
Aug 25 03:48:57 <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxyeQk7Gmxs
Aug 25 03:49:21 <Bobbe> I had seen that one
Aug 25 03:49:32 <Bobbe> had me wondering how the hell you did that for like days
Aug 25 03:49:40 <Bobbe> the same bright spots, I gather
Aug 25 03:49:42 <lcuk> :) had everyone wondering
Aug 25 03:49:44 <lcuk> yeah
Aug 25 03:50:06 <lcuk> i have sent a mail to the guy who did facial tracking
Aug 25 03:50:25 <lcuk> i excluded it myself because the sensor is too dark when I come to hacking
Aug 25 03:50:30 <lcuk> so needed active bright spots
Aug 25 03:50:57 <Bobbe> I saw the facial tracking video
Aug 25 03:51:04 <Bobbe> "when I come to hacking"?
Aug 25 03:51:08 <lcuk> nighttime
Aug 25 03:51:17 <lcuk> and with only a lamp on
Aug 25 03:51:18 <Bobbe> ah ok lol
Aug 25 03:51:39 <Bobbe> it's something I always thought
Aug 25 03:51:44 <Bobbe> facial recognition is awesome
Aug 25 03:51:53 <DocScrutinizer> pick 3 significant unique picture elements. For next frame - shift x+- to best match first mark, do same for y+-, rotate around first mark til best match for 2nd mark. Zoom along 1st<->2nd with 1st fixed for best match of 2nd. Zoom 90° angle from 1st-2nd to best match 3rd...
Aug 25 03:51:58 <Bobbe> but wouldn't you need some form of it that worked in any case?
Aug 25 03:51:59 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: ^^^
Aug 25 03:52:07 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, does not work collaboratively
Aug 25 03:52:12 <lcuk> and would drift
Aug 25 03:52:49 <lcuk> the principle is the same as normal AR which use black and white barcodeish markers
Aug 25 03:52:57 <lcuk> but again, I couldnt use them
Aug 25 03:53:03 <lcuk> too dark to reliably detect
Aug 25 03:53:13 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
Aug 25 03:53:18 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Aug 25 03:53:35 <Bobbe> why green then? why is it more reliable than the other colors?
Aug 25 03:53:43 <lcuk> well white was original
Aug 25 03:53:47 <lcuk> and what those videos are on
Aug 25 03:53:56 <lcuk> but theres a lot of bright white lights around
Aug 25 03:54:01 <lcuk> which in daytime prevent it working
Aug 25 03:54:09 <lcuk> lights in the house
Aug 25 03:54:11 <lcuk> daystar
Aug 25 03:54:12 <lcuk> etc
Aug 25 03:54:22 <lcuk> so I added a greenfilter
Aug 25 03:54:31 <lcuk> and it works in much more conditions :)
Aug 25 03:54:41 <Bobbe> it now searches for greenish white spots
Aug 25 03:54:47 <lcuk> bright  green spots
Aug 25 03:54:54 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/n900_lightdots_50_3.png
Aug 25 03:54:58 <lcuk> i just tinted that
Aug 25 03:55:04 <lcuk> I hold one device over
Aug 25 03:55:06 <johnx> pyther, yeah, I'm having trouble understanding if those patches mentioned in the changelog are already applied or if they get applied during build
Aug 25 03:55:26 * lcuk wants a high5 app ;)
Aug 25 03:55:32 <johnx> sorry for the bad news. It might be possible to just backport the patch that enables rtmp without headers
Aug 25 03:55:35 * DocScrutinizer throws three high efficiency high power green LEDs at lcuk
Aug 25 03:55:45 <lcuk> please DocScrutinizer :)
Aug 25 03:55:52 <lcuk> they would have to work in parallel from usb
Aug 25 03:55:57 <johnx> what about IR LEDs?
Aug 25 03:56:02 <DocScrutinizer> no problem
Aug 25 03:56:10 <lcuk> the hue isn't that differential
Aug 25 03:56:32 <lcuk> and the camera cover isn't filtered specifically to it
Aug 25 03:56:43 <lcuk> so its not as easy or usable
Aug 25 03:56:47 <johnx> IR? It seems to pick it up well enough
Aug 25 03:56:50 <Bobbe> is the camera software open sourced?
Aug 25 03:56:56 <lcuk> johnx, it picks it up
Aug 25 03:57:01 <lcuk> but its almost white in color
Aug 25 03:57:06 <lcuk> so would have original problem
Aug 25 03:57:10 <johnx> aaaah, I see what you mean
Aug 25 03:57:21 <lcuk> and besides, I couldnt display them on another n900 screen ;)
Aug 25 03:57:21 <Bobbe> by software I mean driver
Aug 25 03:57:37 <johnx> for some reason I imagined the software "rounding it down" to something visible.
Aug 25 03:57:41 <pyther> johnx: thanks for looking into it, I think it would be easier at this point to save the stream to a file and play it at the same time
Aug 25 03:57:41 <lcuk> Bobbe, you would be interested in fcam
Aug 25 03:57:45 * johnx admits that optics are not his field of specialty
Aug 25 03:58:13 <lcuk> not computer optics at any rate!
Aug 25 03:58:35 <Bobbe> not me, you lol
Aug 25 03:58:35 * lcuk feels like his ear is giving birth
Aug 25 03:58:53 <Bobbe> I couldn't start tapping at the surface of what it could provide
Aug 25 03:58:54 <lcuk> Bobbe, I am happy enough using gstreamer and v4l2
Aug 25 03:59:21 <Bobbe> do you think liqbase will ever get final?
Aug 25 03:59:38 <Bobbe> it insists on finding itself doing new stuff all the time
Aug 25 04:00:11 <lcuk> the library is mostly there now, apps are rounding on good stability, I will never stop making things in it
Aug 25 04:00:51 <Bobbe> what's the current status?
Aug 25 04:01:09 <lcuk> its still got some bugs, one detected here: http://liqbase.net/liq.20100820_comparison_yuv_rgb_x11.htm
Aug 25 04:01:13 * Bobbe stopped following up on liqbase when his N800 screen got "uncalibrateable"
Aug 25 04:01:19 <lcuk> hmmm status
Aug 25 04:01:27 <lcuk> trying to sort out integration niggles
Aug 25 04:02:23 <lcuk> i have been working on specific other more general things though so its been in the background for a while
Aug 25 04:02:24 <Bobbe> I couldn't see a damn thing different from my browser
Aug 25 04:02:33 <lcuk> lol Bobbe are you on n900?
Aug 25 04:03:04 <Bobbe> no I'm getting mine Thursday
Aug 25 04:03:10 <Bobbe> I'm on my laptop now
Aug 25 04:03:13 <Bobbe> MacBook
Aug 25 04:03:13 <lcuk> ahh
Aug 25 04:03:20 <Bobbe> turned it sideways and then I saw it
Aug 25 04:03:26 <lcuk> there should be gradient differences in the photos
Aug 25 04:03:51 <Bobbe> just the titlebar or sth else?
Aug 25 04:03:59 <lcuk> the yuv is nice and smooth, its conversion to rgb has gradients
Aug 25 04:04:04 <lcuk> look at the + button mostly
Aug 25 04:04:17 <lcuk> the title is something else relating to the theme
Aug 25 04:04:53 <Bobbe> holy mother of god that's supposed to stand out on a 3.7" screen?
Aug 25 04:05:16 <lcuk> Bobbe, "The effect is not noticable under normal circumstances, but when switching modes I can see it clearly"
Aug 25 04:05:22 <Bobbe> I had to stare at the buttons in a way I would never do in real life situations in a 13.3" to see it
Aug 25 04:05:26 <lcuk> it does stand out though :P
Aug 25 04:05:33 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/180768/
Aug 25 04:05:39 <Bobbe> yeah, but when do we switch modes?
Aug 25 04:05:39 <lcuk> when it pans to the dashboard, it switches in place
Aug 25 04:05:48 <lcuk> and it was an observation someone else made
Aug 25 04:06:27 <Bobbe> it's nice that you're this attentive to fixing the minimum details
Aug 25 04:06:27 <lcuk> awesome DocScrutinizer
Aug 25 04:06:36 <lcuk> heh
Aug 25 04:06:38 <Bobbe> but it is not quite the show-stopper is it
Aug 25 04:06:45 <lcuk> oh that, no
Aug 25 04:06:49 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: 120mW
Aug 25 04:07:00 <DocScrutinizer> 30° aperture
Aug 25 04:07:01 <lcuk> but I still havent gotten round to putting the optify block in the library postinst
Aug 25 04:07:10 <lcuk> pr preinst or wherever its needed
Aug 25 04:07:25 <DocScrutinizer> 10Cd
Aug 25 04:07:32 <Bobbe> and that is supposed to take a long time?
Aug 25 04:07:38 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, and 3 of those from usb will work?
Aug 25 04:07:52 <DocScrutinizer> yup, even from N900 USB :-)
Aug 25 04:07:59 <Bobbe> 2.6 euros on a single led?
Aug 25 04:08:03 <DocScrutinizer> 4V 30mA each
Aug 25 04:08:08 <lcuk> Bobbe, patches welcome
Aug 25 04:08:25 <DocScrutinizer> Bobbe: that's a 10000mCd LED
Aug 25 04:08:59 <Bobbe> just saw that
Aug 25 04:09:25 <Bobbe> and you need three of those to generate the bright green spots
Aug 25 04:10:14 <lcuk> Bobbe, I have put my energies towards fremantle as a whole
Aug 25 04:10:37 <lcuk> and when I do stop work I normally knackered
Aug 25 04:11:00 * lcuk optified most of the filesystem to learn how to do it, but havent applied the 10 line patch to lib :S
Aug 25 04:11:12 <Bobbe> lol
Aug 25 04:11:22 <Bobbe> don't worry
Aug 25 04:11:28 <Bobbe> Good things come to those who procrastinate
Aug 25 04:11:29 <lcuk> (and you think I am joking - pr1.2 included maemo-optify-boottime)
Aug 25 04:11:58 <Bobbe> when you say you're putting your energies towards maemo
Aug 25 04:12:10 <Bobbe> you mean you're working with fremantle as a whole?
Aug 25 04:12:15 <Bobbe> you're developing the OS?
Aug 25 04:12:16 <lcuk> yes
Aug 25 04:12:44 <Bobbe> Nokia hired you or you just have a craving for keyboards being beaten to a pulp?
Aug 25 04:13:32 <lcuk> i work for Collabora, through there I am involved with the AF team :)
Aug 25 04:14:19 <Bobbe> AF = ?
Aug 25 04:14:26 <lcuk> application framework
Aug 25 04:14:26 <ds3> autofocus?
Aug 25 04:15:13 * lcuk beds anyway I need to try and sleep of my earbirth
Aug 25 04:15:50 <Bobbe> cya man
Aug 25 04:15:53 <lcuk> \o
Aug 25 04:15:54 <Bobbe> and congrats again
Aug 25 04:15:56 <Bobbe> great work
Aug 25 04:16:15 <lcuk> ta gnite Bobbe johnx
Aug 25 04:16:20 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: for your usecase though the 45° apperture type might be better: http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/180770/
Aug 25 04:16:25 <johnx> 'night lcuk. hope the ear feels better
Aug 25 04:16:49 <lcuk> yeah johnx me too, every time I move it feels like its goin to explode
Aug 25 04:18:23 <johnx> lcuk: go to a doctor :P
Aug 25 04:18:58 <lcuk> been, twice now - first time I found out eardrum had ruptured, then once it decided to get infected :(
Aug 25 04:19:03 * lcuk has horsepills
Aug 25 04:19:11 <johnx> ah good
Aug 25 04:19:20 <johnx> now go get plenty of rest :P
Aug 25 04:19:27 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: if you consider building such a USB thing - you need 3 pcs 33R series resistors for the 3 LEDs
Aug 25 04:19:31 <lcuk> hard when i cant lie down
Aug 25 04:19:34 <lcuk> hence me up now :P
Aug 25 04:19:55 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, i have 3 leds now with no resistors
Aug 25 04:21:09 <lcuk> but i am off, speak tomorrow
Aug 25 04:21:14 <DocScrutinizer> (usb_red)-[1->3]-(33R)-(LED)-[3->1](usb-black)
Aug 25 04:22:11 <DocScrutinizer> get well soon! night
Aug 25 05:05:10 <DocScrutinizer51> hmmpf... /usr/lib/mce/*
Aug 25 06:12:23 <khertan_> Hi all !
Aug 25 06:12:29 <Stskeeps> morn khertan_
Aug 25 06:12:57 * khertan_ ktest
Aug 25 06:16:12 <khertan_> hum ssh to my home computer then -> irssi. it s a bit slow
Aug 25 06:16:39 <khertan_> but seems supporting better small network interuption
Aug 25 06:22:28 <khertan_> sfr sucks they block this url : http://spyderlib.googlecode.com/files/spyder-1.1.4.tar.gz
Aug 25 06:43:37 <Jaffa> Morning!
Aug 25 06:43:42 <Stskeeps> morn
Aug 25 07:11:12 <kerio> Khertan: xchat + bouncer > irssi
Aug 25 07:13:54 <iPeter-> hi
Aug 25 07:14:10 <Adeon> kerio: but that's not 1337
Aug 25 07:14:28 <iPeter-> is ther any way to disable mobile stylish pages on opera. i hate when it goes to mobile facebook
Aug 25 07:15:02 <kerio> Adeon: it is if you run it on your own server
Aug 25 07:15:12 <kerio> iPeter-: settings
Aug 25 07:16:00 <iPeter-> kerio: cant find right one, could you help, lol
Aug 25 07:17:56 <iPeter-> hmm now im wondering how to shange language
Aug 25 07:20:04 <kerio> iPeter-: wrench icon, settings
Aug 25 07:21:09 <iPeter-> yea, cant find language section
Aug 25 07:22:51 <crashanddie> greetings
Aug 25 07:23:11 <iPeter-> :o
Aug 25 07:23:57 <Juozapas> what you using for google reader posts reading ?
Aug 25 07:24:16 <kerio> Juozapas: reader.google.com
Aug 25 07:24:39 <Juozapas> it terrible to navigate via n900 browser
Aug 25 07:24:47 <Juozapas> that page
Aug 25 07:25:10 <kerio> it's awesome
Aug 25 07:25:14 <kerio> use the hotkeys
Aug 25 07:25:20 <Lynoure> Are google reader posts somehow different from normal feeds?
Aug 25 07:25:38 <Lynoure> ...not that I read feeds on my N900.
Aug 25 07:25:54 <Juozapas> Lynoure: im looking for some program synchronizited with google.reader.com
Aug 25 07:25:59 <kerio> jk to go down and up, v to open the article, push u to disable the sidebar, m to keep unread, g+letter to change feeds
Aug 25 07:26:12 <Juozapas> :)
Aug 25 07:27:54 <kerio> there's grr, but i've found all programs that sync wih google reader a bit lacking
Aug 25 07:28:35 <Juozapas> yeah, now im using grr but it isnt really great
Aug 25 07:31:32 <Wolfie> isn't the fundamental problem with that that reader doesn't have an API?
Aug 25 07:31:51 <kerio> it's because the website is perfectly fine
Aug 25 07:33:22 <Lynoure> Juozapas: so you sometimes read on the site, but sometimes not?
Aug 25 07:33:41 <iPeter-> is here opera users on n900
Aug 25 07:33:48 <Lynoure> Juozapas: or some other use case?
Aug 25 07:35:14 <Juozapas> Lynoure: sometimes i read on computer, sometimes on n900
Aug 25 07:36:51 <Lynoure> Juozapas: computer = on the site?
Aug 25 07:37:11 <Lynoure> or computer = some other feed aggregator?
Aug 25 07:38:26 <Lynoure> Because if you don't actually use the site at all, you might have better luck finding as solution that syncs your reading state. (not that I know one right away)
Aug 25 07:42:23 <crashanddie> "A Polish man living in Germany went about his business for about five years without noticing he had been shot in the head because he was drunk when it happened. Police in the western city of Bochum said on Tuesday doctors found a .22 caliber bullet in the back of his head after the 35-year-old went to have what he thought was a cyst removed."
Aug 25 07:43:37 <DocScrutinizer51> iPeter-: why? would you push to get opera on maemo only if there are some users?
Aug 25 07:44:10 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer51: did you shoot some poor polish guy in the head?
Aug 25 07:44:51 <DocScrutinizer51> not yet :-D
Aug 25 07:45:20 <DocScrutinizer51> though lemme try to remember what happened 5 years ago
Aug 25 07:45:51 <crashanddie> good point
Aug 25 07:46:05 <crashanddie> 5 years ago, at this very day and moment... I was probably sleeping
Aug 25 07:46:15 <DocScrutinizer51> meh, think I've never been in Bochum
Aug 25 07:46:24 <Juozapas> Lynoure: yeah, on computer == on the site
Aug 25 07:53:38 <blubbi> anyone here who can help me precompiling python files during installation? I guess it should somehow be possible in the debian rules file
Aug 25 07:54:07 <crashanddie> why do it during installation?
Aug 25 07:58:07 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm not even sure python can do a mere compiler run without actually executing the program
Aug 25 08:00:15 <marmoute> DocScrutinizer51: it does !
Aug 25 08:00:26 <kerio> it can create the bytecoded
Aug 25 08:00:30 <kerio> bytecode
Aug 25 08:00:36 <kerio> it's not a compilation
Aug 25 08:00:51 <DocScrutinizer51> yepyep
Aug 25 08:00:53 <kerio> it's just the internal representation of a python file
Aug 25 08:01:09 <kerio> you just skip the parsing
Aug 25 08:01:10 <DocScrutinizer51> it's a JIT 'compile'
Aug 25 08:01:38 <DocScrutinizer51> pfcode
Aug 25 08:01:41 <marmoute> DocScrutinizer51: "import compiler"
Aug 25 08:01:43 <DocScrutinizer51> p-code
Aug 25 08:02:56 <DocScrutinizer51> forgot what the 'p' is for, some 15 years ago
Aug 25 08:03:51 <Stskeeps> lo dneary
Aug 25 08:03:52 <DocScrutinizer51> para, pseudo, pre parsed...
Aug 25 08:05:02 <DocScrutinizer51> marmoute: what's 'import compiler' doing?
Aug 25 08:06:31 <DocScrutinizer51> marmoute: aah, interactive. then call some method from compiler to generate pyo without executing py?
Aug 25 08:06:35 <frals> blubbi: dh_pysupport or something similar
Aug 25 08:08:17 <blubbi> frals: I tried it but it fails...
Aug 25 08:08:20 <DocScrutinizer51> blubbi: honestly, why do you want to do this?
Aug 25 08:08:52 <Venemo> hey
Aug 25 08:08:55 <blubbi> DocScrutinizer51: because on the first run all the files are compiled but it takes to long and the program is terminated
Aug 25 08:09:10 <Venemo> what would happen if I reformatted the N900's VFAT partition with NTFS?
Aug 25 08:09:14 <blubbi> when you start it for the second time it works
Aug 25 08:09:23 <DocScrutinizer51> mhm
Aug 25 08:09:46 <blubbi> frals: here's my attempt: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/254211/
Aug 25 08:10:07 <DocScrutinizer51> I'd think there is some flaw or race in the program
Aug 25 08:10:11 <blubbi> I tried it with /usr/bin/py_compilefiles but the buildsystem does not have this file
Aug 25 08:10:16 <kerio> DocScrutinizer51: it's not JIT
Aug 25 08:10:32 <kerio> it's just the parse of the text file
Aug 25 08:11:37 <Venemo> can Maemo read/write NTFS partitions?
Aug 25 08:11:51 <rmrfchik> i saw -ntfs  package
Aug 25 08:12:31 <DocScrutinizer51> blubbi: you'll want to ship a helper prog wit your app to do the 'compiling' on target system, rather than on host
Aug 25 08:14:06 <blubbi> DocScrutinizer51: so I should include some sort of compile_all.py in my app and run it via the rules file?
Aug 25 08:14:33 <kerio> it's... useless?
Aug 25 08:14:35 <DocScrutinizer51> blubbi: or rather fix the root cause for app failing on first start with 'compiling'
Aug 25 08:14:38 <blubbi> but on the wiki was this way suggested
Aug 25 08:14:52 <kerio> how big are your files?
Aug 25 08:15:22 <crashanddie> kerio: about this big: |<---------------->|
Aug 25 08:15:25 <crashanddie> (not to scale)
Aug 25 08:15:40 <kerio> you should read less bash
Aug 25 08:15:50 <kerio> it's bad for you
Aug 25 08:15:53 <blubbi> DocScrutinizer51: Well, it does not fail, it just takes too long
Aug 25 08:15:56 <crashanddie> haven't read bash in ages
Aug 25 08:16:12 <crashanddie> kerio: last time I checked, bash.org was down, they said they didn't have the monies to host it anymore
Aug 25 08:16:27 <kerio> blubbi: byte-compiling python won't help
Aug 25 08:16:28 <kerio> srsly
Aug 25 08:16:36 <DocScrutinizer51> kerio: you'll need a 'touch *.pyc *.pyo' in postinstall, when you ship those files
Aug 25 08:16:55 <blubbi> kerio: it does
Aug 25 08:17:08 <frals> blubbi: for fmms i have: dh_pysupport /opt/fmms
Aug 25 08:17:22 <blubbi> frals: in which section?
Aug 25 08:17:32 <dneary> Hi Stskeeps
Aug 25 08:17:34 <frals> blubbi: where you have dh_pysupport atm
Aug 25 08:17:40 <dneary> How're things?
Aug 25 08:17:46 <dneary> You're nokia.com now, right?
Aug 25 08:17:49 <blubbi> frals: sweet, I'll give it a shot
Aug 25 08:18:14 <Stskeeps> dneary: still my own company, but no longer under the maemo.org umbrella
Aug 25 08:18:20 <frals> blubbi: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras_free_source/fmms/1.2.4/ if you want to grab the debian/ folder and check yourself.. last i checked it worked like t should :P
Aug 25 08:18:37 <Stskeeps> dneary: things are good but meego feature freeze is giving us all grey hairs :)
Aug 25 08:18:56 <dneary> bugs like bug #10634 make me want to pull my hair out.
Aug 25 08:18:57 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10634 library.maemodocs.nokia.com is not indexable by search engines
Aug 25 08:19:07 <dneary> Thanks povbot
Aug 25 08:19:27 <dneary> Stskeeps, I've been out of the loop the last 2 months - verry busy with other projects, and then with vacation
Aug 25 08:19:40 <Stskeeps> dneary: vacation, what's that again? :P
Aug 25 08:20:21 <Stskeeps> dneary: of meego n900 news, we have weekly images for people to try out and the nokia 'blobs' like BME are going redistributable for non-commercial purposes
Aug 25 08:20:38 <Zucca> I found out that I can preload/cache map tiles with Mappero. Then I found out that Maep uses jpeg tiles on google maps ans mappero uses png. Oh why, oh why?!? :E
Aug 25 08:20:52 <Stskeeps> dneary: .. and even imgtec have allowed redistributable 3d accelerator libs, so things are changing in the right direction
Aug 25 08:21:03 <kerio> Zucca: looks like you need some ImageMagick!
Aug 25 08:21:16 <Zucca> kerio: Alredy running! :D
Aug 25 08:22:10 <DocScrutinizer51> kerio: maybe even patched in to either one of those apps
Aug 25 08:22:59 <Zucca> Btw. Is there just a simple map preloader program that would show a progress of downloading? Since Mappero just almost freezes while downloading the maps. O.o
Aug 25 08:23:22 <DocScrutinizer51> lol
Aug 25 08:26:59 <dneary> Stskeeps, Vacation is when you go somewhere so remote you can't get internet.
Aug 25 08:27:33 <Stskeeps> ah, yeah, we have those spots..
Aug 25 08:31:17 <kerio> dneary: unless you don't work
Aug 25 08:31:42 <kerio> in that case, vacation is when you exist :D
Aug 25 08:32:26 <dneary> kerio, Not sure I follow you... if you don't work, then vacation is when you exist... does that mean it's when you work?
Aug 25 08:32:54 <kerio> no, i mean
Aug 25 08:32:58 <kerio> i don't work
Aug 25 08:33:05 <kerio> i'm always on vacation
Aug 25 08:33:16 <kerio> (still studying)
Aug 25 08:33:17 <dneary> ah
Aug 25 08:33:33 <kerio> internet helps though
Aug 25 08:33:40 <kerio> irc on the beach ftw
Aug 25 08:34:05 <Dassu> Failure will follow
Aug 25 08:34:10 <Dassu> sunlight is no good for the LCD
Aug 25 08:34:17 <Dassu> E-ink is required.
Aug 25 08:34:25 <kerio> huh?
Aug 25 08:34:35 <Dassu> maan, I would love to have an E-ink debian tablet
Aug 25 08:34:39 <Stskeeps> Dassu: n810 was excellent for sun :P
Aug 25 08:34:40 <kerio> 1) transreflective
Aug 25 08:34:50 <kerio> 2) i'm not under direct sunlight
Aug 25 08:35:22 <Dassu> well, afaik E-ink acts just like normal paper in the sulight
Aug 25 08:37:36 <kerio> e-ink *is* paper
Aug 25 08:37:54 <kerio> not just under sunlight
Aug 25 08:38:10 <crashanddie> e-ink debian tablet?
Aug 25 08:38:24 <crashanddie> Cuz Gnome must look so good at .3 fps?
Aug 25 08:38:46 <crashanddie> remember vnc on 56k?
Aug 25 08:39:15 <crashanddie> e-ink is ok to read text, things that change every 30 seconds
Aug 25 08:39:20 <crashanddie> for anything else, it's utter crap
Aug 25 08:40:28 <Dassu> crashanddie: I know that
Aug 25 08:40:55 <Dassu> I specifically would like to have an tablet or drawing and reading
Aug 25 08:41:49 <DocScrutinizer51> but you could have a wound-up strip of e-ink paper to just pull out of a device
Aug 25 08:43:34 <DocScrutinizer51> basic setup similar to thermopaper printers
Aug 25 08:44:13 <DocScrutinizer51> display update done during pull out
Aug 25 08:51:36 <thomases> any idea how I could debug why a service with a script in /etc/init.d does not start at boot time ?
Aug 25 08:51:48 <thomases> I doublechecked all the obvious things, like list of runlevels, header, ...
Aug 25 09:04:06 <obsidieth> have you guys been having issues with skype call quality
Aug 25 09:04:18 <obsidieth> from my laptop its fine, but the n900 is apparently rather bad
Aug 25 09:17:39 <crashanddie> obsidieth: not that I can speak of
Aug 25 09:24:36 <crashanddie> obsidieth: have you checked from multiple wifi access points?
Aug 25 09:24:44 <crashanddie> obsidieth: or is it a mic problem?
Aug 25 09:34:55 <obsidieth> hmm. im using the mic it came with
Aug 25 09:35:03 <obsidieth> and the wifi works fine on the laptop, but ive not another to test from
Aug 25 09:39:37 <crashanddie> ~psm-issue
Aug 25 09:39:47 <crashanddie> ~fact psm
Aug 25 09:39:52 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer51: help me out here
Aug 25 09:40:15 <Appiah> http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM) ?
Aug 25 09:40:33 <crashanddie> obsidieth: sounds like the PSM is getting in the way. The best way to test it is to try a number of different wifi networks, and see the quality improvies
Aug 25 09:40:35 <crashanddie> /vies/ves/
Aug 25 09:40:37 <DocScrutinizer> wazzup?
Aug 25 09:40:46 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer51: what's the keyword for the PSM again?
Aug 25 09:41:03 <DocScrutinizer> ~listvalues psm
Aug 25 09:41:33 <crashanddie> is it like not replying or something?
Aug 25 09:41:40 <infobot> Factoid search of 'psm' by value (1): binfmt-464c.
Aug 25 09:41:56 <DocScrutinizer> ~listkeys psm
Aug 25 09:41:58 <infobot> Factoid search of 'psm' by key (9): wifi-psm ;; psm ;; psm-fault ;; gampsmite #DEL# ;; gampsmack (.*) #DEL# ;; gampsmite ;; weathercode kpsm ;; gampsmack #DEL# ;; epsmerge.
Aug 25 09:42:15 <crashanddie> ~psm-fault
Aug 25 09:42:16 <infobot> power save mode is a wifi thingie, has nothing to do with the screen. What it basically means is that the n810 is saying "I'm sleeping for 580ms, keep my messages 'till then", but the router doesn't understand this, and sends everything through immediately, and then the n810 asks "Hey bro, you got anything for me?" And the router doesn't reply, as it doesn't understand what he's asking...
Aug 25 09:42:31 <ShadowJK> that's strange
Aug 25 09:42:51 * ShadowJK finds battery at 85% after being on charger overnight
Aug 25 09:42:53 <ShadowJK> bme...
Aug 25 09:43:18 <crashanddie> ShadowJK: my LED kinda decided to stop working
Aug 25 09:43:30 <crashanddie> ShadowJK: and we all know how unreliable the UI is to indicate whether it's really charging or not
Aug 25 09:44:33 <ShadowJK> it's charging
Aug 25 09:44:52 <Appiah> can anyone recommend a good setup for encrypting your data on a  n900?
Aug 25 09:45:07 <crashanddie> don't put sensitive data on it
Aug 25 09:45:16 <crashanddie> it doesn't support remote wipe, it doesn't support hardware encryption, just don't.
Aug 25 09:47:31 <Duckboot> Idea for an app - Filtering on incoming SMSes, and autreply on filter-logic.
Aug 25 09:49:09 <tybollt> cool when will you upload it
Aug 25 09:49:35 <Duckboot> Example: Wifey "Can you buy this and that when you leave work" - Reply "Sorry - very busy - cannot do that".
Aug 25 09:50:03 <Duckboot> tybollt: When I get the time to do it.
Aug 25 09:50:16 * Duckboot is overloaded at work atm.
Aug 25 09:56:17 <crashanddie> Duckboot: it's OK, you're on IRC, you don't need to pretend like you're talking to your boss
Aug 25 09:57:22 <Duckboot> crashanddie: ;-P
Aug 25 10:02:12 * ShadowJK looks at logs
Aug 25 10:02:35 <ShadowJK> so it had charged full, and then ran on battery until 81%
Aug 25 10:03:03 <tybollt> BIND10 - written in python
Aug 25 10:03:06 <tybollt> \o/
Aug 25 10:03:16 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm, that'd be actually sane. And native bq24150
Aug 25 10:04:21 <ShadowJK> actually it terminated charge at 98% and 150mA current
Aug 25 10:05:01 <ShadowJK> it resumed charge at 3980mV
Aug 25 10:05:02 <DocScrutinizer51> bme might have suffered a I2C collision stalling connection to bq27200 so resulting in it stopping that weird microcycling
Aug 25 10:05:18 <stef_204> hi, anyone able to use adblockplus with the maemo broser in nokia n900? tried to install it many times and get it to work but no go
Aug 25 10:05:27 <stef_204> *browser
Aug 25 10:05:54 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, also I started bme very cold, reporting.design is 1700
Aug 25 10:06:10 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm
Aug 25 10:06:16 <ShadowJK> I dont think ive ever started it so close to 2400 before
Aug 25 10:06:18 <Scelt> stef_204: try to restart browser
Aug 25 10:06:44 <stef_204> Scelt: done that and rebooted, forget it, no joy at all
Aug 25 10:07:28 <stef_204> the Filter List just doesn't install in the adblockplus extension which remains empty/void of filters
Aug 25 10:07:29 <tobis87> stef_204: this didn't worked for me as well, i use adflashblock-css.
Aug 25 10:07:50 <crashanddie> ok, what the hell is NLDFTA?
Aug 25 10:07:52 <stef_204> tobis87: yes but that's for blocking flash and i dt want to to that
Aug 25 10:08:21 <crashanddie> The only thing I can come up with is "No Logicial Definition For This Acronym", but I doubt'd be it.
Aug 25 10:08:23 <tobis87> stef_204: ok, but it also blocks ads.
Aug 25 10:09:18 <stef_204> tobis87: yes but probably only ads which use flash
Aug 25 10:10:08 <crashanddie> stef_204: you're actually dismissing someone's advice, who obviously is in the same scenario as you, based on a half-assed assumption deduced from a name?
Aug 25 10:10:51 <stef_204> crashanddie: I am only discussing it. and waiting for tobis87' answer. no need for you to but in
Aug 25 10:10:54 <stef_204> *butt
Aug 25 10:11:08 <crashanddie> lol
Aug 25 10:12:31 <stef_204> tobis87: my assumption, correct or incorrect?
Aug 25 10:13:54 <crashanddie> "I'm proud to announce adflashblock-css's release to extras-devel. A lot of people have used my last package, Adblock Plus, and some have had very mixed results due to the way microb works with extensions. I decided to go another route and to provide ad blocking through CSS which should be a lot less... random."
Aug 25 10:14:04 <crashanddie> "I also added a form of flashblock, also done through CSS. When a flash animation is loaded on a page, it will be replaced with a grey square telling you that it's flash and if you click, the flash animation will be loaded and played."
Aug 25 10:14:57 <tobis87> stef_204: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=521927&postcount=34
Aug 25 10:15:50 <stef_204> tobis87: tx
Aug 25 10:16:06 <crashanddie> stef_204: so, to answer your question: yes, your assumption was incorrect
Aug 25 10:16:12 <stef_204> crashanddie: do you have the link to the page which has the data you pasted?
Aug 25 10:16:26 <crashanddie> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43753
Aug 25 10:16:37 <crashanddie> it's also the first result when you google "adflashblock-css"
Aug 25 10:16:41 <stef_204> ok great. thanks
Aug 25 10:16:44 <crashanddie> np
Aug 25 10:17:54 <DocScrutinizer51> crashanddie: you wasted a great opportunity to throw lmgtfy
Aug 25 10:18:04 <crashanddie> I don't lmgtfy
Aug 25 10:19:18 <DocScrutinizer51> it quitematches my sarcastic humor :-P
Aug 25 10:22:57 <tobis87> Quite a lot of work to get encryption working on the n900, dm-mod,ko, dm-crypt.ko, omap-aes.ko, sha1-generic.ko, sha256-generic.ko, omap-sha1-md5.ko, cryptsetup...
Aug 25 10:27:18 <tobis87> I was thinking about getting  swap encrypted (key file /dev/urandom since the n900 has a hwrng)  and after that using it only as a backingstore for ramzswap... /dev/mmcblk0p3 <- /dev/mapper/swap0 <- /dev/ramzswap0 (with 32mb)
Aug 25 10:27:37 <crashanddie> n900 has a hwrng?
Aug 25 10:27:46 <tobis87> yes, build in kernel
Aug 25 10:27:50 <crashanddie> err
Aug 25 10:27:56 <crashanddie> how can HARDWARE be built in the kernel?
Aug 25 10:28:00 <cehteh> tobis87: do you have compcache for the n900?
Aug 25 10:28:33 <tobis87> the driver for it is in the kernel, check /proc/crypto, there's also a /dev/hwrng entry.
Aug 25 10:28:42 <crashanddie> ok thanks
Aug 25 10:29:10 <tobis87> tobis87: yes, but only without the kernel patch, the kernel patch is not compatible with the nokia stock kernel.
Aug 25 10:29:32 <tobis87> argh I meant cehteh
Aug 25 10:30:03 <tobis87> cehteh: it does work quite nice...
Aug 25 10:30:14 <cehteh> i run the power kernel .. didnt checked if they added compcache
Aug 25 10:30:23 <cehteh> what kernel do you run, your own?
Aug 25 10:30:33 <tobis87> crashanddie: oh, i missed something, i also need rngd then.
Aug 25 10:30:45 <cehteh> i know that it is quite nice, waiting for it packaged since ever
Aug 25 10:31:38 <tobis87> cehteh: no it's not in the stock kernel, i only compiled the module. I modified rcS to modprobe it after every reboot and also modified the fstab autogeneration file to point to ramzswap0
Aug 25 10:32:51 <cehteh> ah nice
Aug 25 10:33:07 <cehteh> prolly i should do that too
Aug 25 10:34:23 <tobis87> cehteh: i compiled it on the device. i did apt-get build-essentials, extracted the kernel headers in /opt/usr/src and linked it to /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1/build.
Aug 25 10:34:46 <cehteh> thanks .. i should try that
Aug 25 10:36:40 <tobis87> cehteh: but be carefull. I have replaced multiple times the wrong rcS... there is one in /etc/init.d and in /etc/event.d... I placed the modprobe one line before swapon -a
Aug 25 10:37:46 <cehteh> tobis87: i completely commented out all the nokiaisms and written my own scripts and fstabs for pulling filesystems up
Aug 25 10:38:23 <cehteh> the script which generates the fstab makes assumptions which are just broken
Aug 25 10:39:09 <cehteh> i was just to lazy to build the ramzswap yet in hope someone will package it, how about you?
Aug 25 10:39:19 <tobis87> cehteh: ok, i just wanted to warn you. yes, it is broken. i did more a hack than a proper solution.
Aug 25 10:39:51 <cehteh> btw i have much better success with 2 ramswap devices .. the first one without backing swap and higher priotity
Aug 25 10:40:04 <cehteh> and then second takes the rest with backing device
Aug 25 10:40:24 <cehteh> but beware the mount from busybox cant handle swap priorities
Aug 25 10:40:41 <cehteh> you possibly have to compile your own mount command duh!
Aug 25 10:40:42 <tobis87> cehteh: nah, i don't even have scratchbox running here. i could post the kernel module and the scripts. but i don't have the power kernel running here.
Aug 25 10:41:33 <cehteh> (i also considering to have smaller same pri swap on emmc and µSD)
Aug 25 10:41:49 <cehteh> effectively raid this for better performance
Aug 25 10:42:06 <cehteh> but i am not sure how well it scales
Aug 25 10:42:13 <tobis87> cehteh: busybox is crap anyway... have you seen that there is no useradd program? you have to get it from extra-devel, i needed it for sshfs. because there is no fuse group
Aug 25 10:42:31 <cehteh> i added a fuse group by hand
Aug 25 10:42:59 <cehteh> vipw/vigr
Aug 25 10:43:12 <cehteh> or maybe completely by hand .. cant remember
Aug 25 10:43:15 <tobis87> cehteh: raid is an overhead. i also have a raid 5 on my pc, but i added the swaps are all seperate partitions
Aug 25 10:43:27 <cehteh> well raid0 in that case
Aug 25 10:45:00 <tobis87> cehteh: i'm a little bit paranoid in that case, I have 3 raid1 partitions, boot, sabayon, ubuntu and 1 raid5 data... and i also have an external raid0 where i backup my data with rsync
Aug 25 10:45:10 <DocScrutinizer51> ~nuke messybox
Aug 25 10:45:11 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at messybox ... B☢☢M!
Aug 25 10:45:15 <tybollt> raid?
Aug 25 10:45:20 <tybollt> sweet jeebus
Aug 25 10:45:29 <tybollt> I need me a proper RAID10er on my N900
Aug 25 10:45:52 <DocScrutinizer51> messybox even missing nice :-S
Aug 25 10:45:58 <cehteh> just swap of same priority, not dedicated raid
Aug 25 10:46:19 <tobis87> tybollt: on my pc, and i only mention it because cehteh was refering to raid.
Aug 25 10:46:26 <cehteh> the kernel balances swap of same prio over the device on its own *like* raid0 .. but it isnt a dedicated raid device
Aug 25 10:46:26 <DocScrutinizer51> *utils-gnu ftw
Aug 25 10:46:35 <tobis87> cehteh: yes, that is what i did as well
Aug 25 10:46:49 <obsidieth> mmm. disappearing widgets too
Aug 25 10:46:52 <obsidieth> i think i should reflash.
Aug 25 10:46:59 <cehteh> tobis87: and raid5 is of course among the slowest raid levels.. at least when it comes to writing
Aug 25 10:47:11 <cehteh> (okok raid6 is even worse)
Aug 25 10:47:50 <jacekowski> if you have dedicated controller with cache doing that stuff then it doesn't matter
Aug 25 10:48:03 <tobis87> cehteh: yes but raid0, is not really a raid. and with raid1 you don't have any speed improvement
Aug 25 10:48:07 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: does utils-gnu come with a real 'mount' iirc that would be utils-linux which isnt available to my knowledge
Aug 25 10:48:41 <cehteh> tobis87: raid1 has almost linear performance improvement on reads ..
Aug 25 10:50:00 <tobis87> cehteh: yes, but no writing improvements.
Aug 25 10:50:17 <jacekowski> rfaid10
Aug 25 10:50:20 <jacekowski> raid10*
Aug 25 10:50:22 <cehteh> well .. *much* better than raid5 anyways
Aug 25 10:50:31 <jacekowski> cehteh: not really
Aug 25 10:50:35 <tobis87> very intersting article on raid's, but only in german http://www.linuxtechnicalreview.de/Themen/Performance-and-Tuning/I-O-Scheduler-und-RAID-Performance
Aug 25 10:50:40 <jacekowski> cehteh: raid5/6 is quite fast in terms of read speed
Aug 25 10:50:50 <cehteh> i saied write speeds
Aug 25 10:51:01 <jacekowski> write speeds are fast as well
Aug 25 10:51:04 <cehteh> and software raid5/6 in the linux kernel is quite slow
Aug 25 10:51:17 <jacekowski> yeah, becuase of parity calculations
Aug 25 10:51:19 <cehteh> (writes!)
Aug 25 10:51:21 <tobis87> and this http://www.linuxtechnicalreview.de/Themen/Storage-und-Backup/Neue-RAID-Level-im-Ueberblick
Aug 25 10:51:23 <jacekowski> but if you have fast cpu
Aug 25 10:51:28 <jacekowski> cehteh: yes
Aug 25 10:51:30 <jacekowski> cehteh: it's fast
Aug 25 10:51:38 <jacekowski> cehteh: raid5/6 is one of fastest raids
Aug 25 10:51:51 <cehteh> not only because the calculation but you have to read data for the caclulation before you can write
Aug 25 10:52:09 <jacekowski> nope
Aug 25 10:52:17 <DocScrutinizer51> cehteh: seems mount isn't in my current collection of repos
Aug 25 10:52:19 <jacekowski> because you update whole block
Aug 25 10:52:30 <jacekowski> and block is already in cache
Aug 25 10:53:43 <jacekowski> i have numbers for raid5/6 and as long as cache can deal with writes smaller than block size it's quite fast
Aug 25 10:55:27 <tobis87> how can i measure the speed of the hwrng on the n900? Should dd if=/dev/hwrng of=/dev/null and kill -USR1 (pid of dd) work?
Aug 25 10:56:13 <cehteh> yep
Aug 25 10:57:38 <tobis87> ok, cryptsetup is in extra-devel, but if it's fast enough i need someone adding rngd to extra-devel
Aug 25 10:57:39 <cehteh> but you better use the hwrng to seed the kernel rng (using a small daemon for it)
Aug 25 10:58:34 <cehteh> someone told me to use encryped filesystem without performance problems on the n900
Aug 25 10:58:50 <cehteh> of course you can always push it with bulk io
Aug 25 10:58:57 <cehteh> that wont work ..
Aug 25 10:59:24 <tobis87> yes, this doesn't look nice... i need to autostart cryptsetup, rngd and whole bunch of kernel modules need to be loaded.
Aug 25 11:00:06 <tobis87> cehteh: Yes, i'm in contact with the developer of the hardware crypto acceleration drivers for the n900.
Aug 25 11:00:49 <tobis87> cehteh: http://rapidshare.com/files/414690756/omap-hw.tar.gz
Aug 25 11:01:10 <cehteh> nah no time
Aug 25 11:02:02 <tobis87> cehteh: the modules are already compiled, you only need to insert them. it should already speed up aes for wifi.
Aug 25 11:02:20 <tobis87> cehteh: and you need to update nolo first.
Aug 25 11:04:51 <Khertan_> Morning all !
Aug 25 11:05:27 <DocScrutinizer51> wtf? update NOLO???
Aug 25 11:08:08 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer51: yep, it configures m-shield differently
Aug 25 11:09:03 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: where's your master thesis about bootloader on N900? About time you publish it!
Aug 25 11:10:16 <jacekowski> i have bits of .txt files with notes
Aug 25 11:12:26 <DocScrutinizer> BLARRGH! http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12316&contentId=4629
Aug 25 11:12:46 <DocScrutinizer> every second buzzword makes me feel like vomiting
Aug 25 11:14:28 <DocScrutinizer> why is industry never stopping to brainwash us about security=limitation of freedom and reducing user control, and rights=restrictions management
Aug 25 11:14:56 <Stskeeps> because not everyone is a smelly gnu hippie who smells of dead cheese
Aug 25 11:15:07 <jacekowski> well, m-shield has loads of security stuff
Aug 25 11:15:13 <jacekowski> hardware accelerated AES
Aug 25 11:15:14 <jacekowski> and stuff
Aug 25 11:15:19 <DocScrutinizer> honestly there's not a single 'benefit' mentioned on this site I would even just tolerate on my device
Aug 25 11:15:51 <jaska> indeed, mostly fascist/bigbrother -applications :)
Aug 25 11:15:56 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Aug 25 11:29:51 <tobis87> Argh!!! Busybox dd doesn't show the speed... I wanted to get the speed of /dev/hwrng >/dev/null
Aug 25 11:30:42 <tobis87> oh, i'm lucky there is gdd :-D
Aug 25 11:39:33 <tobis87> ok. /dev/hwrng has a speed of 2.7kB/s, but it only has a certain amount of data, if you do dd to long, you won't get any data from it
Aug 25 11:40:24 <cehteh> tobis87: as i saied, you usually use a daemon to add it as another entropy source to the kernel rng
Aug 25 11:40:42 <cehteh> you dont want to pull entropy directly from it, thats way to expensive
Aug 25 11:41:00 <tobis87> cehteh: yes i know, but it shouldn't just stop working like /dev/random does
Aug 25 11:41:33 <cehteh> dev/random doesnt stop, it just becomes very slow when the pool dried out
Aug 25 11:42:03 <cehteh> and hwrng has no pool i guess
Aug 25 11:42:19 <tobis87> yes, and therefore I want hwrng to feed data into /dev/random, but the hwrng also stops after some time
Aug 25 11:42:31 <thresh> isnt urandom the preferred way anyway?
Aug 25 11:42:50 <tobis87> thresh: no, because it is no true random data
Aug 25 11:43:06 <cehteh> for what do you want to use it?
Aug 25 11:43:32 <thresh> tobis87: thanks, got it
Aug 25 11:43:34 <tobis87> thresh: swap encryption, ok might be good enough for that.
Aug 25 11:43:42 <thresh> yeah yeah understood.
Aug 25 11:43:56 <cehteh> urandom is good enough
Aug 25 11:45:33 <tobis87> cehteh: yes, i just thought why shouldn't i use it if it's there, but since it is not like the padlock hwrng which doesn't dry out, it doesn't make sence. strange through why does the n900 need it?
Aug 25 11:45:41 <sharpneli> Urandom is quite good enough. And as the hwrng feeds it more entropy constantly it's quite hard to predict it.
Aug 25 11:49:18 <tobis87> wtf? Initialize PRNG pool with the HW RNG. Slow, but that's ok. dd if=/dev/hwrng of=/dev/urandowm bs=$URANDOM_POOLSZ count=1 <- Found that in /etc/event.d/rcS-late
Aug 25 11:50:45 <tobis87> and I wanted to reinvent the wheel, urandom already gets entropy from hwrng. But why is this needed? I don't see any default use on the n900?
Aug 25 11:57:15 <jacekowski> you have to seed urandom
Aug 25 11:57:47 <jacekowski> well, you don't have to because it would get seeded from /dev/random
Aug 25 11:58:31 <tobis87> jacekowski: yes, but a driver for a hwrng only to seed urandom? maybe /dev/random would be to slow on boot time
Aug 25 11:59:27 <jacekowski> i'm not sure how it's done on n900
Aug 25 12:02:22 <sharpneli> IIRC /dev/random and /dev/urandom access the same entropy pool
Aug 25 12:02:28 <sharpneli> And writing to both does exactly the same thing.
Aug 25 12:02:40 <tobis87> CRYPTO_XTS is not set, that means only aes-cbc-essiv is possible, well essiv would be good enough for swap, right?
Aug 25 12:04:02 <lcuk> morning guys \o
Aug 25 12:05:37 <DocScrutinizer51> lo lcuk - hows life?
Aug 25 12:06:00 <lcuk> less painful this morning
Aug 25 12:06:19 <DocScrutinizer51> good
Aug 25 12:06:19 <lcuk> swelling hasn't gone down but I got some sleep
Aug 25 12:06:21 <lcuk> :)
Aug 25 12:07:15 <DocScrutinizer51> I remebered a really working home remedy from my granma, but you were asleep
Aug 25 12:07:43 <DocScrutinizer51> small piece of onion in some floss
Aug 25 12:08:01 <lcuk> where would I put said piece of onion
Aug 25 12:08:26 <DocScrutinizer51> I generally don't think good of such receipes
Aug 25 12:08:40 <DocScrutinizer51> but this one really worked for me
Aug 25 12:09:58 <DocScrutinizer51> wrap in some wadding or floss or what it's called at tip of qtips
Aug 25 12:10:10 <DocScrutinizer51> then loosely put in ear
Aug 25 12:17:02 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer51, I cannot put anything in or near my ear
Aug 25 12:17:09 <lcuk> the doctor couldnt even put his doofer in there
Aug 25 12:17:18 <lcuk> the canal is completely closed with swelling
Aug 25 12:18:26 <SpeedEvil> have you had antibiotics?
Aug 25 12:18:32 <lcuk> yes
Aug 25 12:18:42 <SpeedEvil> Do you have a dremel?
Aug 25 12:18:46 <lcuk> :D
Aug 25 12:19:03 <lcuk> not a bad idea
Aug 25 12:20:06 <Appiah> :D
Aug 25 12:21:30 <DocScrutinizer51> damn :-S
Aug 25 12:22:54 <DocScrutinizer51> antibiotics are supposed to significantly improve situation within max 48h. If not, revisit doctor
Aug 25 12:24:33 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer51, yeah I know, the doc was very clear :)
Aug 25 12:26:23 * RST38h yawns at the world
Aug 25 13:11:14 <mintux> I would like to records my call auto or manual . I installed recaller but doesn't work . I defined a path for record calls but there is no file there and after call finished . the icon is green and doesn't turn off . are there any solution for records my call ?
Aug 25 13:11:35 <maddler> hey all
Aug 25 13:19:17 <Crystal33fqc> hi!
Aug 25 13:22:16 <Crystal33fqc> anyone?
Aug 25 13:22:40 <mintux> is it safe to update my phone via sudo apt-get update and sudo apt-get upgrade?
Aug 25 13:23:08 <ZogG> mintux why not?
Aug 25 13:24:00 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer51 antibiotics and alcohol should help you to get drunk faster
Aug 25 13:24:09 <mintux> ZogG: maybe some package has conflict or . some kernel and anything . testing and develop repository is enabled on my phone
Aug 25 13:24:35 <mgedmin> mintux, it's not safe in general
Aug 25 13:24:45 <mgedmin> but it should be safe most of the time
Aug 25 13:25:03 <mintux> mgedmin:how can I update . I thing recaller app has problem and doesn't work correctly on my phone
Aug 25 13:25:03 <mgedmin> iow, check what you're upgrading
Aug 25 13:25:15 <mgedmin> if apt tries to remove half of your system packages, stop
Aug 25 13:25:29 <mgedmin> if it tries to upgrade 5 3rd-party apps, go ahead
Aug 25 13:25:34 <ZogG> mintux so what? it would say you and if not - than it would be updated by app maanger
Aug 25 13:26:15 <mintux> how can I update from app manager ? im in app manager and updated my list
Aug 25 13:27:30 <[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]> hi, anyone know the command line to connect a gprs/3g session
Aug 25 13:29:10 <mintux> only recaller recored calls ?
Aug 25 13:41:28 <timeless> http://konigsberg.mozilla.org/splash.jpg
Aug 25 13:41:35 <timeless> that was low tide
Aug 25 13:41:53 * Khertan_ is fighting with QSyntaxHilighter ...
Aug 25 13:42:28 * lcuk gives Khertan_ a QSword
Aug 25 13:42:43 <lcuk> timeless, thats quite a cool splash screen
Aug 25 13:45:56 <alterego> Heh
Aug 25 13:47:38 <Khertan_> from PyQt4.QWar import QNuclear, QGuidance
Aug 25 13:57:17 <jpe> can i group different contacts together and easily send an email to that group ?
Aug 25 13:59:28 <pexi> sounds like you are trying to use it for something useful.. I'm not sure if useful is supported
Aug 25 14:04:06 * GAN900 kept himself up all night after listening to clips from the Backward Music Station.
Aug 25 14:05:11 <GAN900> It's cool when MicroB confuses Find and the URL bar.
Aug 25 14:15:01 <[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]> afternoon - anyone know how to launch a gprs connection from the command line? aloso need to check that wifi or gprs are not active at the time as an If statement, trying to do a script which can be run as part of a scheduled task
Aug 25 14:27:26 <mgedmin> [DarkGUNMAN-Ext], http://myn900.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/internet-connection-via-the-command-line/
Aug 25 14:31:02 <[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]> mgedmin > thanks
Aug 25 14:36:36 <Khertan_> Yiha ! Dear onboard python coders and lovers ... A first release of KhtEditor is available on #maemo extras-devel : http://khertan.net/khteditor
Aug 25 14:38:07 <GNU\caust1c> hi! one question i'm debating pretty often with a friend: does the n900 go into suspend (as in echo mem > /sys/power/state) when the display is off?
Aug 25 14:38:39 <jacekowski> GNU\caust1c: no
Aug 25 14:38:48 <jacekowski> GNU\caust1c: it goes into different low power mode
Aug 25 14:38:55 <jacekowski> GNU\caust1c: but it's not suspend
Aug 25 14:39:09 <GAN900> It's about the same power usage, though.
Aug 25 14:39:20 <GAN900> Well, less, if you compared directly to x86.
Aug 25 14:39:27 <GNU\caust1c> yeah, thats what i said him too
Aug 25 14:39:33 <GNU\caust1c> +to
Aug 25 14:40:36 <Juozapas> it will be official release of meego for n900 ?
Aug 25 14:40:48 <jacekowski> no
Aug 25 14:40:57 <tobis87> update on the crypto stuff:
Aug 25 14:41:03 <jacekowski> there will be no official supported meego for n900
Aug 25 14:41:04 <tobis87> aes-cbc-plain:rmd256 -> no accel. 4,4MB/s with accel. 6,2MB/s without encryption 15,6MB/s
Aug 25 14:41:18 <jacekowski> hmmm
Aug 25 14:41:21 <jacekowski> that's slow
Aug 25 14:41:26 <tobis87> aes-cbc-essiv:rmd256 -> no accel. 4,4MB/s with accel. 6,6MB/s without encryption 15,6MB/s
Aug 25 14:41:38 <SpeedEvil> tobis87: neat
Aug 25 14:41:44 <tobis87> but the omap-aes module is not yet very stable
Aug 25 14:41:55 <tobis87> it oopses in essiv mode sometimes
Aug 25 14:42:00 <jacekowski> well, it's not as fast as i was expecting it to be
Aug 25 14:42:02 <SpeedEvil> tobis87: Durring the time you are doing the encryption, is the CPU locked?
Aug 25 14:42:57 <GAN900> GNU\caust1c, ARM is really good at idle power consumption.
Aug 25 14:43:12 <tobis87> SpeedEvil: Don't know, I have to test more stuff. But it is defined as CRYPTO_ALG_ASYNC
Aug 25 14:43:37 <SpeedEvil> GNU\caust1c: Idle, with wifi enabled, you can get around a week.
Aug 25 14:43:40 <RST38h> GAN: Could you remind me the bug# for the unable-to-copy-in-Modest bug?
Aug 25 14:44:08 <GNU\caust1c> yeah, thats what i always told him. he insists however that his android phone actually goes into suspend
Aug 25 14:44:43 <SpeedEvil> GNU\caust1c: It does
Aug 25 14:44:49 <GNU\caust1c> (which i don't believe aswell)
Aug 25 14:44:52 <SpeedEvil> GNU\caust1c: Android does things differently
Aug 25 14:44:56 <GNU\caust1c> ah, okay
Aug 25 14:45:08 <SpeedEvil> GNU\caust1c: They've not paid as much attention to getting things truly idle.
Aug 25 14:45:16 <SpeedEvil> And hit it with the suspend hammer.
Aug 25 14:45:34 <jacekowski> maemo switches cpu to 0Hz
Aug 25 14:46:02 <SpeedEvil> The CPU stores state when 'soft-off' at really quite low power
Aug 25 14:46:03 <GNU\caust1c> okay, thanks for clearing things up :)
Aug 25 14:46:10 <SpeedEvil> IIRC 'suspend' mode can work.
Aug 25 14:46:18 <SpeedEvil> But it's only something like half the power
Aug 25 14:46:27 <GNU\caust1c> i did suspend2ram on the maemo succesfully
Aug 25 14:46:27 <SpeedEvil> so a couple of weeks idle, not a week
Aug 25 14:46:36 <SpeedEvil> Yes.
Aug 25 14:46:40 <kerio> suspending would be possible if rapuyama didn't bug the phone with each signal level change
Aug 25 14:46:45 <SpeedEvil> It wakes on incoming signal changes.
Aug 25 14:48:07 <alessandra> help for evopedia
Aug 25 14:48:41 <SpeedEvil> Have you tried consulting the oracle at Delphi?
Aug 25 14:49:11 <alessandra> Who can help me for applying evopedia
Aug 25 14:49:32 <alessandra> for nokia n900
Aug 25 14:49:38 <alessandra> ??????
Aug 25 14:49:46 <SpeedEvil> applying?
Aug 25 14:49:47 <alessandra> :-(
Aug 25 14:50:05 <Juozapas> maybe it will be official release of arduino for n900 ?
Aug 25 14:50:24 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: Oracle requires me to pay for a license for each person its prophesy will relate to
Aug 25 14:50:54 <tobis87> if anyone is interested in the omap-aes ops: http://pastebin.com/2CNtcyXg
Aug 25 14:51:01 <alessandra> yes applying evopedia
Aug 25 14:51:16 <GAN900> dneary, so, you're not in favor of a MeeGo council?
Aug 25 14:51:37 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: And they insist on forcing each participant wear a uniform, for the duration of the prophecy
Aug 25 14:51:52 <dneary> GAN900, I don't believe an elected MeeGo council will fix the most serious community issues I see right now.
Aug 25 14:51:56 <dneary> Is that the same thing?
Aug 25 14:52:13 <alessandra> non riesco a vedere il file dei dump sul n900
Aug 25 14:52:35 <alessandra> I can not see the dump file on N900
Aug 25 14:53:05 <alessandra> nobody helps me
Aug 25 14:53:45 <SpeedEvil> alessandra: you need rto download one
Aug 25 14:54:31 <alessandra> rto ???
Aug 25 14:54:46 <Lynoure> alessandra: s/rto/to/
Aug 25 14:54:50 <Lynoure> I assume.
Aug 25 14:54:53 <dneary> GAN900, And you?
Aug 25 14:55:48 <alessandra> beach with me
Aug 25 14:55:57 <GAN900> dneary, dunno.
Aug 25 14:56:13 <GAN900> dneary, dunno that I care anymore. *g*
Aug 25 14:56:23 <Lynoure> alessandra: beach?
Aug 25 14:56:38 <alessandra> I have downloaded from file dump at home but the phone does not see
Aug 25 14:56:50 <RST38h> dneary: And what are most serious community issues at the moment?
Aug 25 14:57:12 <alessandra> HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
Aug 25 14:57:20 <Lynoure> alessandra: Calm down
Aug 25 14:57:21 <dneary> RST38h: Private discussions on important issues
Aug 25 14:57:30 <alessandra> ok Lynouvre
Aug 25 14:57:45 <RST38h> dneary: You mean, you would like to make them public?
Aug 25 14:57:49 <GAN900> dneary, and, no, not the same thing, glad I asked to clarify.
Aug 25 14:57:53 <RST38h> and that is the main issue?
Aug 25 14:57:59 <alessandra> nobody tells me how sorry
Aug 25 14:58:01 <Juozapas> strange thing, sometimes notification led not light until i try to unlock device, then it turn on blue light (recieved sms, im or smth)
Aug 25 14:58:07 <Juozapas> any ideas whats wrong ?
Aug 25 14:58:15 <dneary> alessandra, Perhaps the mailing list might be appropriate? Patience is a requirement if you want to get help on IRC
Aug 25 14:58:28 <dneary> RST38h: Yes.
Aug 25 14:58:45 <alessandra> ok dneary
Aug 25 14:58:59 <RST38h> dneary: I agree, council will not change that. There is no place for the council in the current Meego setup, afaik
Aug 25 14:59:00 <dneary> RST38h: There are two separate things here: transparency and meritocracy
Aug 25 14:59:18 <alessandra> sorry but I wanted to scream with you and who are desperate
Aug 25 14:59:23 <dneary> RST38h: Discussions can be private, but transparent (like debates in parliament)
Aug 25 14:59:40 <dneary> Or they can be public and open to all
Aug 25 15:00:00 <RST38h> dneary: Making them public won't change much if the public cannot affect the outcome though
Aug 25 15:00:01 <dneary> In the latter case, on difficult issues, coming to a consensus can be impossible
Aug 25 15:00:07 <alessandra> So who do I ask for a hand thanks
Aug 25 15:00:27 <RST38h> alessandra: talk.maemo.org
Aug 25 15:00:50 <dneary> RST38h: What is needed is a public forum which gives greater weight to certain people's opinions (meritocracy), with a decider who can make a reasoned decision having listened to the debate
Aug 25 15:01:10 <RST38h> dneary: But this will just open a can of worms though
Aug 25 15:01:13 <dneary> RST38h: And I absolutely disagree - making them public will change lots
Aug 25 15:01:25 <alessandra> RST38h talk.maemo.org not found
Aug 25 15:01:31 <Lynoure> alessandra: Have you seen http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39871 ?
Aug 25 15:01:33 <RST38h> dneary: Because the same person can have different value from the point of view of Nokia and Intel for example
Aug 25 15:02:09 <RST38h> dneary: Well, based on the Maemo experience, just making discussions public changes nothing
Aug 25 15:02:30 <Lynoure> alessandra: sounds pretty much like your problem, so I hope it helps. I need to go now.
Aug 25 15:02:32 <RST38h> dneary: as long as the actual decisions are still made without consulting the community
Aug 25 15:02:33 <alessandra> I put a post already: I intall evopedia with dumps in Italian, But When I open the application to find the dump says he can not find anything as I do? But if I see Them on file management with extension IDX and DAT. help me thanks
Aug 25 15:03:10 <dneary> RST38h: I disagree. First step: make it transparent why decisions are made as they are.
Aug 25 15:03:19 <dneary> Second: Open discussions
Aug 25 15:03:23 <RST38h> dneary: ok.
Aug 25 15:03:27 <RST38h> dneary: Third?
Aug 25 15:03:29 <Lynoure> alessandra: Did you unsquash them?
Aug 25 15:03:41 <Lynoure> alessandra: or, where did you get them from?
Aug 25 15:03:50 <RST38h> dneary: Maybe a mechanism to allow the public actually affect how things are done?
Aug 25 15:03:56 <dneary> RST38h: After the first step, people already know a lot - whether the project vision & direction matches their expectations, for example
Aug 25 15:03:57 <jacekowski> and i would really like some sort of NDA or other stuff to get access to rapuyama datasheets
Aug 25 15:04:04 <jacekowski> and that kind of stuff
Aug 25 15:04:04 <alessandra> how do you use?
Aug 25 15:04:09 <dneary> RST38h: That's "open discussions"
Aug 25 15:04:28 <dneary> RST38h: You know who the decision maker is, and have the opportunity to lobby him
Aug 25 15:04:29 <alessandra> how do you unsquash them?
Aug 25 15:04:29 <RST38h> dneary: Well in Maemo we kinda had open discussions
Aug 25 15:04:49 <dneary> RST38h: Open discussions, including the decision maker
Aug 25 15:04:59 <RST38h> dneary: The problem was, you could discuss stuff any way you liked and even persuade nokians of certain things, but they were never implemented
Aug 25 15:05:01 <Lynoure> alessandra: http://evopedia.info/ has the dupms, then you need to unsquash them before the software will see them. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39871 has instructions
Aug 25 15:05:15 <RST38h> dneary: Ok, this sounds clearer
Aug 25 15:05:16 <Lynoure> alessandra: gotta go now, best of luck
Aug 25 15:05:36 <dneary> RST38h: An open project implies that Nokians won't implement everything
Aug 25 15:05:48 <RST38h> dneary: But they still will
Aug 25 15:06:05 <alessandra> thanks
Aug 25 15:06:06 <dneary> It also implies that people other than Nokians will have the ability & access to modify things Nokians don't have time to
Aug 25 15:06:08 <RST38h> dneary: Current meego.com is completely owned and administered by Nokia and INtel employees, right?
Aug 25 15:06:16 <dneary> Sure
Aug 25 15:06:24 <dneary> That's my "problem that needs solving"
Aug 25 15:06:30 <lcuk> hey dneary \o
Aug 25 15:07:14 <lcuk> dneary, it would be good to have your eyes in the #maemo-ssu discussions if you could idle there perhaps
Aug 25 15:07:18 <alessandra> Login : Register unsquashfs
Aug 25 15:07:18 <RST38h> dneary: Sounds like it cannot be solved without a lot of persuasion inside Nokia and Intel teems
Aug 25 15:07:24 <RST38h> teams, sorry
Aug 25 15:08:12 <dneary> RST38h: So, to refer the honorable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago...
Aug 25 15:08:25 <dneary> "I don't believe an elected MeeGo council will fix the most serious community issues I see right now."
Aug 25 15:08:37 <RST38h> 100% agree
Aug 25 15:09:27 <GAN900> I think we need a culture shif
Aug 25 15:09:27 <GAN900> t
Aug 25 15:09:39 <crashanddie> we need an ownership shift
Aug 25 15:10:04 <crashanddie> MeeGo needs to stop being "Nokia & Intel", but "contributors include Nokia & Intel"
Aug 25 15:10:07 <GAN900> Which isn't easy no matter how you go about it.
Aug 25 15:10:16 <GAN900> crashanddie, that's the party line
Aug 25 15:10:32 <GAN900> Whether that does or will ever related much to reality, well. . . .
Aug 25 15:13:10 <RST38h> GAN: Depends on where you wanrt to shift :)
Aug 25 15:13:40 <RST38h> GAN: I would say, we need an online community truly independent from hw/sw manufacturers
Aug 25 15:13:49 <RST38h> GAN: Like HTC people have for example
Aug 25 15:14:25 <RST38h> So that there is no implicit rule to rely on Nokia to resolve issues
Aug 25 15:14:48 <RST38h> Own site, own forum, own repository, own build system if needed
Aug 25 15:15:14 <RST38h> With 6-10 people having equal administrative rights
Aug 25 15:16:08 <Khertan_> i like this idea
Aug 25 15:16:23 <RST38h> And one simple rule: NO POLITICS
Aug 25 15:16:27 <RST38h> Just technical stuff.
Aug 25 15:19:03 <nomis> RST38h: that is an illusion.
Aug 25 15:19:14 <RST38h> maybe
Aug 25 15:19:32 <RST38h> but at least you can steer toward it, even although your goal is illusory
Aug 25 15:19:50 <dneary> hi nomis
Aug 25 15:19:52 <nomis> I mean the "no politics" part.
Aug 25 15:19:58 <dneary> How're things in GIMPland?
Aug 25 15:20:01 <nomis> dneary: Hi dave. This discussion kind of sounds familiar   :)
Aug 25 15:20:02 <RST38h> yes I understood
Aug 25 15:20:36 <nomis> dneary: we seem to have resolved the admin issue.
Aug 25 15:20:48 <dneary> RST38h: It's completely reasonable to me that there be a body that decides what goes into the distro minimum spec - whether it's packages or APIs
Aug 25 15:21:19 <dneary> RST38h: All I want is to have some kind of consultation/proposal period, with debate & a public (justified) decision at the end
Aug 25 15:21:51 <RST38h> dneary: Yes, but look at it from the manager's viewpoint
Aug 25 15:22:10 <RST38h> dneary: You argue internally with interest holders for weeks
Aug 25 15:22:28 <RST38h> dneary: Make all kinds of sacrifices that may jeopardize your career later
Aug 25 15:22:36 <RST38h> dneary: ANd finally reach a conclusion
Aug 25 15:22:46 <dneary> RST38h: Yes, I know
Aug 25 15:23:00 <dneary> I'd like to see those debates happen on meego-dev
Aug 25 15:23:11 <RST38h> dneary: And NOW, you are supposed to let some punters off the street discuss it AGAIN and change the fragile balance you have achieved?
Aug 25 15:23:16 <RST38h> dneary: No fucking way.
Aug 25 15:23:29 <dneary> No repeat discussions - that is the way of the 2 speed project
Aug 25 15:23:42 <dneary> "community comes after" is (as you point out) too hard
Aug 25 15:23:46 <RST38h> dneary: A lot of these discussions cannot be made in open space
Aug 25 15:23:58 <dneary> If that's imposed, what happens is that community doesn't mean anything
Aug 25 15:24:09 <RST38h> dneary: Because even although you are discussing an open source project, the real basis for your decisions is a subject of NDAs
Aug 25 15:24:27 <dneary> RST38h: Sure. And, as I was pointing out, that's the core problem
Aug 25 15:24:37 <crashanddie> the whole point is that Nokia/Intel shouldn't have these discussions internally
Aug 25 15:24:54 <crashanddie> either they have the discussions in public, or they don't have discussions about things that influence the whole project
Aug 25 15:25:09 <lcuk> why shouldn't they? for their spin, they can decide inclusion/exclusion all they like
Aug 25 15:25:10 <RST38h> dneary: This particular problem cannot be rectified, really. It comes from the fact that Meego is not just an OSS project, there are commercial interests involved
Aug 25 15:25:16 <lcuk> just like we can technically do so
Aug 25 15:25:26 <dneary> RST38h: It can be mitigated
Aug 25 15:25:27 <lcuk> the community open mix of meego should have the community open discussion
Aug 25 15:25:32 <RST38h> dneary: It can probably be rectified by having corporate and community editions (a la RedHat/Fedora)
Aug 25 15:25:40 <dneary> RST38h: Have an open module discussion period before feature freeze
Aug 25 15:25:59 <RST38h> dneary: Or maybe the vice versa:
Aug 25 15:26:00 <dneary> RST38h: Like Ubuntu does
Aug 25 15:26:14 <lcuk> dneary, the maemo community meego stuff can have whatever it needs and have images built, yes?
Aug 25 15:26:19 <RST38h> dneary: Each corporate interest holder comes and says: "We NEED these modules there."
Aug 25 15:26:27 <dneary> RST38h: Have all kernel design decisions (such as no NFS) go through community lists before they're decided
Aug 25 15:26:29 <RST38h> dneary: And the rest is a subject of public debate
Aug 25 15:26:42 <RST38h> dneary: Linux kernel is different though
Aug 25 15:26:54 * RST38h agrees with no-nfs thing btw ;)
Aug 25 15:27:20 <dneary> RST38h: Well, it's the area where the most work & discussion is happening on meego-dev right now (perhaps because it's one of the few places where the position isn't "let's take upstream"
Aug 25 15:27:29 <dneary> I don't care, myself
Aug 25 15:27:58 <lcuk> sigh
Aug 25 15:28:20 <RST38h> NFS is a freaking monster anyway
Aug 25 15:28:20 <lcuk> we want the meego community spin to be the defacto one that nokia intel and any other commercial remixers want to use apps from
Aug 25 15:28:29 <dneary> But I want to see someone say "NFS support is outdated and inappropriate for MeeGo devices, so I'm planning to unconditionally remove the NFS stuff from the kernel we ship. Discuss."
Aug 25 15:28:41 <lcuk> so for now, we should not be trying to push nokia/intel to actually do what we want
Aug 25 15:28:49 <lcuk> we should be building the meego we want
Aug 25 15:28:57 <lcuk> and let them see how much better we can do stuff
Aug 25 15:29:22 <RST38h> dneary: Sounds sensible: this particular topic should not involve any corpse interest, I think
Aug 25 15:29:38 <dneary> corpse interest?
Aug 25 15:29:38 <lcuk> RST38h is right saying that no manager will listen, we prove by example
Aug 25 15:29:48 <RST38h> dneary: The UI kits inclusion is going to be a much hotter topic though
Aug 25 15:29:51 <lcuk> and let them make their own minds up
Aug 25 15:30:11 <dneary> RST38h: If you want to put it into a soundbite then here it is: "Default setting is mailing list for anything relating to the distro."
Aug 25 15:30:19 <RST38h> dneary:CORPorateS
Aug 25 15:30:37 <RST38h> dneary: They won't bite :)
Aug 25 15:30:37 <dneary> lcuk, prove by example implies that manager gets to see your work
Aug 25 15:30:49 <dneary> lcuk, By no means a given if you're not an employee
Aug 25 15:30:59 <lcuk> dneary, meego will have a community spin, maemo is already gearing up an obs isnt it?
Aug 25 15:31:05 <lcuk> its upto us to decide what goes in it
Aug 25 15:31:39 <lcuk> so we will it with the best and the brightest community apps
Aug 25 15:31:48 <lcuk> and best experience
Aug 25 15:32:07 <lcuk> and let a groundswell of people talk about it and show that it works
Aug 25 15:32:12 <lcuk> THEN managers will listen
Aug 25 15:32:28 <lcuk> but going whining to them, as RST38h says isn't useful
Aug 25 15:33:02 <dneary> Who's whining?
Aug 25 15:33:10 <dneary> "opportunity to convince'
Aug 25 15:33:39 <dneary> lcuk, Let me put it this way: can you tell me how it was decided that Banshee would be the media player for MeeGo netbook?
Aug 25 15:34:02 <lcuk> I dunno, but why isn't there someone with a better media player showing it?
Aug 25 15:34:41 <crashanddie> show it to whom, exactly?
Aug 25 15:34:50 <dneary> crashanddie, My point 'zacly
Aug 25 15:35:22 <crashanddie> if *anyone* comes to the mailing lists or forums showing a media player, and asking "Could this be the default media player", the response will ZOMG immediately be: "This has already been discussed, please don't waste our time"
Aug 25 15:35:28 <lcuk> crashanddie, how do you hear about anything?
Aug 25 15:35:59 <dneary> crashanddie, Yes. Or, potentially, "No. You must ship the entire platform to be compliant."
Aug 25 15:36:05 <lcuk> "gahhh this meego media player is shit!!!"
Aug 25 15:36:18 <lcuk> "oh, I have blahblah and it works a treat, from the maemo community repo"
Aug 25 15:36:30 <crashanddie> the only part where things get discussed in MeeGo is when Intel or Nokia employees get a memo "Please read and comment on emailing thread x on meego-dev"
Aug 25 15:37:21 <crashanddie> I wouldn't actually be surprised if some corporate contributors set up rules to redirect anything not from whitelisted email domains to /dev/null
Aug 25 15:37:26 * lcuk carries on with his community meego keynote
Aug 25 15:37:53 * crashanddie waits to get his blackberry, then will send his n900 back to quim and be done with this shit
Aug 25 15:38:20 <crashanddie> s/shit/deaf man's discussion/
Aug 25 15:40:03 <lcuk> dneary, whats the best mobile linux email client?
Aug 25 15:40:06 <rtyler> so I received my n900 yesterday, maemo has come a LONG way since I last tinkered with it on a friends n800
Aug 25 15:40:09 <rtyler> well done guys!
Aug 25 15:40:25 <plan_rich> hey, i own a nokia n900 and wanted to develop a simple application! i thought that maemo uses qt (cause its from nokia) but the the hello world example is written in gtk+... why is that?
Aug 25 15:40:27 <dneary> lcuk, Hmmm... I never met one I liked. Gmail on Android, maybe
Aug 25 15:40:29 * rtyler sends everybody a meat plate
Aug 25 15:40:35 <kerio> plan_rich: maemo uses both
Aug 25 15:40:36 <dneary> lcuk, On N900, Modest
Aug 25 15:40:42 <kerio> you should use qt
Aug 25 15:40:48 <rtyler> plan_rich: IIRC MeeGo is more Qt based than Maemo is
Aug 25 15:40:50 <kerio> so it'll be easier to port your application to meego
Aug 25 15:40:54 <lcuk> dneary, is it better than the meego mail client?
Aug 25 15:40:56 <dneary> lcuk, Anjal was looking promising, but I'm not a big fan of Outlook Express
Aug 25 15:41:07 <lcuk> on handset
Aug 25 15:41:08 <kerio> anjal? who the hell picks maemo application names
Aug 25 15:41:30 <rtyler> kerio: some gimp :P
Aug 25 15:41:32 <plan_rich> kk so if i devel my app x in meamo i can easily port it to meego and vice versa?
Aug 25 15:41:43 <hrw> with Qt?
Aug 25 15:41:44 <plan_rich> (if i use qt)
Aug 25 15:41:54 <kerio> kinda
Aug 25 15:42:00 <kerio> it'll also be easy to port it to a desktop
Aug 25 15:42:05 <hrw> plan_rich: it was expected to simply 'yes'
Aug 25 15:42:27 <hrw> plan_rich: do not hardcode UI in application - use *.ui files from Qt Designer
Aug 25 15:42:48 <plan_rich> kk
Aug 25 15:43:16 <lcuk> dneary, my point being, having pride in the apps in the meego-maemo community distro will show managers a pathway which gives them some good software.  they may not choose everything, but are more likely to as we get strong solid reliable open apps.
Aug 25 15:43:19 <GAN900> lcuk, except nobody in the community has commit rights and there isn't an open build system.
Aug 25 15:43:34 <GAN900> lcuk, pie in the sky thinking.
Aug 25 15:43:57 <RST38h> btw, no linked in messaging plugin yet?
Aug 25 15:44:12 <RST38h> lcuk: no :)
Aug 25 15:44:18 <GAN900> Nokia is going to ship exactly the number of proprietary pieces of junk as they feel they need to to differentiate.
Aug 25 15:44:26 * RST38h smiles at lcuk bitterly
Aug 25 15:44:46 * GAN900 bets they use the reference stuff as an excuse to add MORE proprietary applications.
Aug 25 15:44:48 <dneary> lcuk, Sure
Aug 25 15:47:19 <GAN900> For your unsettlement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgF9ZlI_R-8
Aug 25 15:47:45 <Stskeeps> GAN900: on the other hand, there hasn't been many 'commit bit' gaining patches either.
Aug 25 15:48:50 <GAN900> Stskeeps, perhaps an indicator of additional issues.
Aug 25 15:48:50 <lcuk> to be fair about any application
Aug 25 15:49:10 <Stskeeps> GAN900: my next sentence
Aug 25 15:49:12 <lcuk> developers working on the app in question are in best position to do patches themselves where the app is actively maintained
Aug 25 15:50:02 <GAN900> MeeGo isn't exactly not anti-contributor.
Aug 25 15:50:06 <Stskeeps> but my point is, n900 implementation is really open and we're not getting patches.
Aug 25 15:50:50 <Stskeeps> (well, that's not entirely true, some contributors are starting to show)
Aug 25 15:51:21 <lcuk> Stskeeps, theres still a lot of community sentiment in the hildon problem.  I think in coming weeks as outreach between meego and the community to try and get hildon compatability in place we will see much more crossover
Aug 25 15:51:25 <crashanddie> GAN900: lol, the backwards music station made safari crash
Aug 25 15:51:53 <GAN900> Stskeeps, one bright spot in the darkness isn't going to overcome everything else.
Aug 25 15:52:23 <Stskeeps> GAN900: even the handset guys are out in the open and they're sitting quite lonely.
Aug 25 15:52:30 <Stskeeps> their requirements, etc.
Aug 25 15:53:04 <Stskeeps> lcuk: sigh, you're provoking me to try and build maemo gtk..
Aug 25 15:53:12 <lcuk> me? never!
Aug 25 15:53:35 <crashanddie> GAN900: that's a communication going between the UK and the US?
Aug 25 15:53:46 <lcuk> but if we did get hildon running and start to be able to bring community apps in, I bet there will be more movement and investigation on the new qt apps as well
Aug 25 15:54:03 <crashanddie> GAN900: I'd bet on it being the Queen sexing the then-president on the red phone. Or maybe some PM...
Aug 25 15:54:44 <lcuk> Stskeeps, I really want to look at the open picture viewer meego has :)
Aug 25 15:54:47 <GAN900> crashanddie, don't know.
Aug 25 15:54:55 <Stskeeps> lcuk: it's on gitorious
Aug 25 15:54:58 <GAN900> Stskeeps, well, perhaps they should advertise more.
Aug 25 15:55:03 <GAN900> Blogging is good.
Aug 25 15:55:04 <lcuk> Stskeeps, sure
Aug 25 15:55:18 <lcuk> I am hopeful that like the qt fapman has done for HAM
Aug 25 15:55:27 <lcuk> the meego picture viewer could be a faster grid
Aug 25 15:55:30 <GAN900> Notice that we don't ever have any articles on mwkn about it.
Aug 25 15:56:19 <lcuk> Stskeeps, it would be easier with debian package around them of course
Aug 25 15:56:38 <Stskeeps> lcuk: packaging doesn't matter when it takes 5 minutes to package something like an app for meego..
Aug 25 15:56:42 <lcuk> but thats not something for meego to worry about, I think theres some folks looking from community already
Aug 25 15:57:00 <lcuk> Stskeeps, but having to reboot and lose funcitonality to playtest isnt great
Aug 25 15:57:13 <lcuk> thats the community issue with playing with meego
Aug 25 15:57:29 <lcuk> unlike all other maemo dev, they cannot check on phone
Aug 25 15:57:50 * lcuk would like to see the picture viewer grids side by side
Aug 25 15:57:55 <Stskeeps> lcuk: i can't help but feel that letting maemo gtk live another day is a sin against nature, though
Aug 25 15:57:58 <lcuk> to see perforance diffs
Aug 25 15:58:04 <lcuk> lol Stskeeps
Aug 25 15:58:14 <lcuk> do you have meego MMS?
Aug 25 15:58:26 <Stskeeps> PMS, maybe
Aug 25 15:58:32 <lcuk> heh
Aug 25 15:59:23 <Stskeeps> i'll try to port maemopad, the mother of all maemo applications.
Aug 25 15:59:26 <lcuk> you may think gtk is a sin, but theres a lot of great apps built in it and hildon has worked extremely well
Aug 25 15:59:34 <lcuk> :) great idea!
Aug 25 15:59:59 * lcuk remembers you doing that in mer!
Aug 25 16:02:49 <Stskeeps> lcuk: what do you consider port-worthy maemo apps?
Aug 25 16:02:49 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 25 16:03:22 <lcuk> modest for one
Aug 25 16:03:29 <lcuk> fmms :)
Aug 25 16:03:29 <Stskeeps> *choke*
Aug 25 16:03:42 <Stskeeps> another sin against nature, modest
Aug 25 16:03:43 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 25 16:03:43 <lcuk> lol thats a longer term thing :P
Aug 25 16:03:50 <lcuk> maemopad will make lots happy I bet though!
Aug 25 16:04:08 <lcuk> Stskeeps, around here modest is used by many
Aug 25 16:04:14 <lcuk> and copes with most things needed
Aug 25 16:04:23 <Stskeeps> intltool, libhildon1-dev, libgtk2.0-dev, libosso-gnomevfs2-dev, libglib2.0-dev, libdbus-glib-1-dev, libosso-dev, libmodest-dbus-client-dev, conbtdialogs-dev,  libhildonfm2-dev, osso-af-settings
Aug 25 16:04:33 <Stskeeps> and behind those, a lot of worse dependancies are hiding
Aug 25 16:04:39 <lcuk> yeah I know
Aug 25 16:04:44 <Stskeeps> and daemons that has to listen and ..
Aug 25 16:04:52 <lcuk> I started looking at a load of 2nd level dependencies for things earlier this week
Aug 25 16:05:03 <lcuk> I am having similar things from the other way
Aug 25 16:05:33 <GAN900> Stskeeps, so, when is the blog article coming up so I can write a summary in mwkn? :)
Aug 25 16:05:46 <Stskeeps> GAN900: what blog article? :P
Aug 25 16:06:07 <Stskeeps> "Why Hildon is a bad thing to let live"?
Aug 25 16:06:08 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 25 16:08:57 <GAN900> Stskeeps, about the N900 project, what's going, who's involved, how to get involved, etc.
Aug 25 16:09:20 <GAN900> Stskeeps, you say you have no contributors, I say you need more marketing.
Aug 25 16:09:50 <Stskeeps> GAN900: hm? it has been up as a wiki page forever, http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 and advertised like we were drunk, naked and flashing at a music festival
Aug 25 16:10:57 <Stskeeps> +it
Aug 25 16:11:24 <Stskeeps> lcuk: another question - why not just run these things in a maemo5 chroot?
Aug 25 16:11:25 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 25 16:12:11 <GAN900> Stskeeps, funny, I haven't seen much of the advertising.
Aug 25 16:12:27 <Stskeeps> GAN900: you haven't been reading enough threads then
Aug 25 16:12:28 <GAN900> But I've now offered to help, so whatever.
Aug 25 16:12:44 <GAN900> Stskeeps, I don't bother with anything on the MeeGo forums.
Aug 25 16:12:50 <Stskeeps> it hasn't been on the meego forums.
Aug 25 16:13:39 <Stskeeps> GAN900: #meego-arm does testify people have been listening though
Aug 25 16:14:07 <Stskeeps> (106 people there currently)
Aug 25 16:14:13 <Stskeeps> more than mer ever attracted
Aug 25 16:15:06 <lcuk> mer had lots more when the joggler folks arrived
Aug 25 16:16:35 <Stskeeps> GAN900: if you want to see real development, follow that instead of #meego
Aug 25 16:16:59 <timeless_mbp> anyone seen sivang or have contact info?
Aug 25 16:18:27 <GAN900> Stskeeps, clearly there's an awareness issue if you're not getting patches.
Aug 25 16:18:37 <GAN900> Apparently there's not, though, so carry on.
Aug 25 16:20:39 <slonopotamus> ~curse all n900 usb connectors
Aug 25 16:20:40 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, all n900 usb connectors !
Aug 25 16:50:38 <kerio> did someone port sylpheed to maemo?
Aug 25 16:50:43 <gs94> how can I get telnetd on my N900 ? it's reporting a missing dependency
Aug 25 16:50:51 <kerio> it was a kickass mail client
Aug 25 16:51:43 <kerio> i want fetchmail+spamassassin+sylpheed as a mail client
Aug 25 16:51:45 <gs94>   telnetd: Depends: openbsd-inetd but it is not installable or
Aug 25 16:51:46 <gs94>                     inet-superserver but it is not installable
Aug 25 16:52:26 <kerio> gs94: ew
Aug 25 16:52:30 <kerio> >.<
Aug 25 16:52:44 <gs94> kerio: ?
Aug 25 16:52:46 <kerio> use ssh
Aug 25 16:52:48 <kerio> srsly
Aug 25 16:52:52 <gs94> ssh is slow
Aug 25 16:53:24 <gs94> plus I don't need the encryption, it's in my LAN
Aug 25 16:53:32 <gs94> I just need easy terminal access to my phone from my PC
Aug 25 16:53:36 <kerio> sylpheed: For example, you can read messages in a folder which has 20-30 thousands without stress.
Aug 25 16:53:40 <kerio> do that with modest
Aug 25 16:53:52 <lcuk> gs94, until you get in wide world, but try apt-get install openbsd-inetd and see what that has a problem with.
Aug 25 16:54:01 <lcuk> you may have to do some faffing to get it working
Aug 25 16:54:29 <lcuk> but the usecase isn't entirely unreasonable, I would like to know what transfer differences you get between the unencrypted telnet and encrypted ssh
Aug 25 16:54:47 <gs94> well I'm not sure it's about encryption
Aug 25 16:54:51 <gs94> I think it's about the echoing
Aug 25 16:54:54 <lcuk> in part it will be
Aug 25 16:55:04 <lcuk> because the little cpu has to do the work
Aug 25 16:55:08 <lcuk> for everything sent over
Aug 25 16:55:16 <lcuk> so 1gb of data has 1gb of encryption done on it?
Aug 25 16:55:22 <gs94> the terminal is not responsive. I get the echo of my letters in a second or two, it's not fun
Aug 25 16:55:33 <gs94> I'm not sending 1gb of terminal commands lol
Aug 25 16:55:35 <lcuk> that might be something totally different
Aug 25 16:55:48 <gs94> is it fixable ?
Aug 25 16:56:03 <gs94> and if telnetd is not installable, why's it there in the repos ?
Aug 25 16:56:04 <lcuk> i've heard of others with similar lag
Aug 25 16:56:11 <lcuk> you sure the machine isnt working hard?
Aug 25 16:56:15 <lcuk> ie top shows idleness
Aug 25 16:56:20 <slonopotamus> gs94: that's how maemo works
Aug 25 16:56:28 <gs94> haha
Aug 25 16:56:46 <gs94> other than the catorize problem, no
Aug 25 16:56:50 <slonopotamus> not to mention bug 9902
Aug 25 16:56:52 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9902 Autocleaner purged _all_ versions of sflphone-client-gnome from extras-devel
Aug 25 16:56:54 <lcuk> gs94, its there because it should work, but with everything debian repositoryish, you can have extra repositories which conflict and block and offer different versions
Aug 25 16:57:26 <lcuk> you can get into same situation in debian
Aug 25 16:57:35 <lcuk> where apps are offered but not installable
Aug 25 16:57:38 <gs94> might be rare, but possible
Aug 25 16:57:46 <lcuk> *nod*
Aug 25 16:57:50 <slonopotamus> lcuk: not if you stick to official repos
Aug 25 16:58:05 <gs94> maemo repos aren't official ? :D
Aug 25 16:58:10 <lcuk> slonopotamus, touche
Aug 25 16:58:25 <slonopotamus> lcuk: :P
Aug 25 16:58:42 <derf> gs94: Go into Settings, Internet Connections, etc., find the entry for your router, and disable power saving.
Aug 25 16:58:48 <johnsq> Hi
Aug 25 16:58:54 <lcuk> yes, thats a good idea derf
Aug 25 16:59:19 <slonopotamus> gs94: do you have high load on your wifi router?
Aug 25 16:59:37 <gs94> no slonopotamus
Aug 25 17:00:03 <slonopotamus> gs94: how strong is wifi signal on n900?
Aug 25 17:00:10 <gs94> perfect
Aug 25 17:00:16 <gs94> the router is 3 meters away
Aug 25 17:00:18 <slonopotamus> gs94: does ping show packet loss?
Aug 25 17:00:25 <gs94> i'll try now, sec
Aug 25 17:00:52 <gs94> derf: thank you, that should fix the eternal lag that happens after idle activity
Aug 25 17:01:06 <slonopotamus> gs94: best check is sudo ping -f <other side>, ctrl+c after some seconds and see what it reports
Aug 25 17:01:29 <slonopotamus> gs94: 5 < some < 10 is okay
Aug 25 17:01:45 <gs94> why should there be any packet loss ?
Aug 25 17:01:57 <slonopotamus> no idea. bad cables :)
Aug 25 17:02:04 <gs94> wifi :P
Aug 25 17:02:24 <gs94> -f -> invalid option
Aug 25 17:02:30 <kerio> powersaving is *good*
Aug 25 17:02:34 <slonopotamus> bad ping :)
Aug 25 17:03:02 <slonopotamus> kerio: until it doesn't start to break usability
Aug 25 17:03:13 <gs94> 0% loss after removing -f
Aug 25 17:03:31 <gs94> kerio: the router is only at my home, and there's also a charger at my home
Aug 25 17:04:26 <derf> The N900's power saving requires a feature that is either broken or missing in basically every router I've ever used it with, and the failure case is multi-second RTT's.
Aug 25 17:04:30 <derf> So, no, it's not good.
Aug 25 17:04:52 <gs94> what happens to maemo after nokia gave up hildon ?
Aug 25 17:05:06 <slonopotamus> gs94: do you observe lags in both directions?
Aug 25 17:05:18 <gs94> slonopotamus: will try now
Aug 25 17:05:19 <slonopotamus> gs94: if only pc -> n900, it is surely powersaving
Aug 25 17:05:53 <slonopotamus> sometimes my n900 powersaves so much that it isn't pingable from wifi side
Aug 25 17:06:04 <gs94> uh I don't have sshd on my windows. Expected :D
Aug 25 17:06:12 <slonopotamus> meh
Aug 25 17:06:55 <gs94> is sshd supposed to be instant ? or is this a known limitation ?
Aug 25 17:07:43 <slonopotamus> besides initial connection negotiation it should be just as laggy as your network is.
Aug 25 17:08:04 <gs94> powersaving just fixed everything.
Aug 25 17:08:19 <gs94> the after-idle lag, and the echo lag
Aug 25 17:08:22 <gs94> thanks derf.
Aug 25 17:08:45 <gs94> so there's powersaving throughout the connection ? :S not just during idle time ?
Aug 25 17:08:49 <slonopotamus> gs94: prepare for faster battery drain
Aug 25 17:09:09 <slonopotamus> gs94: define idle :)
Aug 25 17:09:25 <slonopotamus> gs94: for network, idle is when no packets are sent
Aug 25 17:09:31 <gs94> screen turned off, didn't use any connection for more than 10 minutes or sth
Aug 25 17:10:17 <slonopotamus> gs94: you don't send packets all the time. standard tcp keepalive is measured in _seconds_
Aug 25 17:11:58 <derf> Default TCP keepalive is "no less than 2 hours" :).
Aug 25 17:12:14 <gs94> that's just too long
Aug 25 17:13:34 <gs94> did nokia give up development or was that just a rumor ?
Aug 25 17:14:04 <Stskeeps> development on what? :P
Aug 25 17:14:12 <gs94> hildon mainly
Aug 25 17:14:14 <GAN900> derf, not here. :P
Aug 25 17:14:41 <GAN900> WRT54Gs and WHR-125 work fine.
Aug 25 17:16:32 <FIQ> note to self: not editing sudoers if not using "visudo"
Aug 25 17:16:36 <FIQ> now i need to reflash. :P
Aug 25 17:16:48 <FIQ> yeah, i know i'm great
Aug 25 17:17:22 <X-Fade> FIQ: Install sshd?
Aug 25 17:17:32 <X-Fade> FIQ: And login as root?
Aug 25 17:17:32 <FIQ> uhm
Aug 25 17:17:38 <FIQ> would that work?
Aug 25 17:18:09 <X-Fade> HAM has root.
Aug 25 17:18:18 <FIQ> ok
Aug 25 17:18:19 <FIQ> great
Aug 25 17:18:27 <FIQ> thanks, you stopped me from reflashing. :D
Aug 25 17:20:52 <FIQ_> uH
Aug 25 17:20:54 <luke-jr> gs94: I recall seeing something along those lines in a commit msg somewhere
Aug 25 17:21:02 <FIQ_> you sure about that?
Aug 25 17:21:45 <FIQ_> because my repos disappeared
Aug 25 17:22:38 <FIQ_> apt-worker exited, due to syntax error in /etc/sudoers
Aug 25 17:37:49 <FIQ> Guess a NSU resets the rootfs, or do i need to use the command line flasher? :p
Aug 25 17:41:54 <gs94> luke-jr: the last commit message of hildon-desktop
Aug 25 17:42:05 <gs94> luke-jr: it said from now on, the community has to take care of it
Aug 25 17:42:46 <MohammadAG> it's stable
Aug 25 17:43:25 <gs94> it isn't. catorise triggers a bug in it.
Aug 25 17:44:49 <gs94> it generates constant 10% cpu usage. And hildon-desktop keeps calling Poll() with 0 as timeout, it returns, it calls it again, etc.
Aug 25 17:46:07 <gs94> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10412
Aug 25 17:46:08 <povbot> Bug 10412: hildon-desktop cpu usage, result=causes slow battery drain
Aug 25 17:48:49 <MohammadAG> gs94, so it was fixed
Aug 25 17:49:33 <gs94> oh
Aug 25 17:49:40 <gs94> sorry for that.
Aug 25 17:49:49 <MohammadAG> If the launcher wasn't scrollable because of the few icons the rubberband effect never finished because because by the time the velocity dropped low enough the other boundary accelerated it again in the opposite direction, making the page effectively bouncing invisibly.
Aug 25 17:49:55 <MohammadAG> package coming up
Aug 25 17:50:56 <gs94> thanks
Aug 25 17:52:48 <mece> 'ello
Aug 25 17:52:54 <Venemo> hey guys
Aug 25 17:53:51 <Venemo> do your N900s have the "Designed in Finland" caption?
Aug 25 17:54:00 <gs94> Venemo: yes
Aug 25 17:55:08 <Venemo> gs94: what if mine doesn't have it?
Aug 25 17:55:15 <Venemo> does it hold any relevance?
Aug 25 17:56:34 <kerio> mine does
Aug 25 17:56:39 <kerio> Venemo: LOLFAKE
Aug 25 17:57:09 <Venemo> kerio: LoL
Aug 25 17:57:59 <Venemo> kerio: the Nokia site accepts my IMEI as an N900
Aug 25 17:58:08 <Venemo> kerio: so definitely not fakee
Aug 25 17:58:32 <RST38h> EHLO PUNKS
Aug 25 18:00:07 <thresh> Venemo: are you sure your DNS setup is not spoiled too? That so called 'nokia site' could be fake as well.
Aug 25 18:03:07 <Venemo> thresh: haha!
Aug 25 18:03:13 <Venemo> RST38h: hello punk :)
Aug 25 18:03:41 <GAN900> Venemo, depends on when it was manufactured.
Aug 25 18:03:55 <GAN900> That string appears primarily on the first batches and the protos.
Aug 25 18:04:28 <Venemo> GAN900: the original owner bought it in december (I bought it as used in february)
Aug 25 18:09:17 <FIQ> windows cmd ftl, starting flasher-3.5.exe, opens a new cmd with text, then closes megafast
Aug 25 18:09:30 <FIQ> hmm
Aug 25 18:09:51 <Jaffa> FIQ: It takes command line arguments and so needs to be run from within a Command Prompt
Aug 25 18:09:58 <FIQ> yes
Aug 25 18:09:59 <FIQ> i know
Aug 25 18:10:06 <FIQ> flasher-3.5.exe -F <file>
Aug 25 18:10:08 <FIQ> i did it
Aug 25 18:10:25 <FIQ> but it opens a new cmd prompt that closes before i can read what it said
Aug 25 18:10:26 <FIQ> Hmm
Aug 25 18:10:38 <FIQ> idea: redirect stdout to file
Aug 25 18:10:50 <jacekowski> no
Aug 25 18:10:56 <jacekowski> run cmd
Aug 25 18:10:58 <Jaffa> FIQ: Or 1) open Command Prompt; 2) run flasher-3.5.exe from within it
Aug 25 18:11:00 <jacekowski> and then run that command in cmd
Aug 25 18:11:07 <FIQ> jaffa, ok, look
Aug 25 18:11:17 <FIQ> start -> run -> cmd
Aug 25 18:11:21 <FIQ> cd'ing to flasher-3.5
Aug 25 18:11:26 <FIQ> running flasher-3.5.exe
Aug 25 18:11:30 <FIQ> that's what i did
Aug 25 18:11:32 <FIQ> do i fail?
Aug 25 18:11:35 <jacekowski> yes
Aug 25 18:11:38 <FIQ> ok
Aug 25 18:11:40 <Jaffa> Hmm. Doesn't do that for me.
Aug 25 18:11:44 <jacekowski> something is seriously fucked up on your computer
Aug 25 18:11:55 <FIQ> jacekowski, okay. :P
Aug 25 18:12:02 <FIQ> but that isn't helping me
Aug 25 18:12:21 <FIQ> Hm, guess I'll try to do it from a live version of kubuntu
Aug 25 18:12:55 <FIQ> but everytime i try to do a liveUSB, i fail, so i will do it from wubi instead..
Aug 25 18:16:13 <plan_rich_> hi! i want to create a qt app that should run on maemo, meego and also on pc! do i have the gui part for every device?
Aug 25 18:16:28 <plan_rich_> do i have to write*
Aug 25 18:16:49 <Venemo> plan_rich_: if you want to.
Aug 25 18:17:08 <Venemo> plan_rich_: if you restort to using only platform-independent component, you don't haveto
Aug 25 18:17:50 <plan_rich_> i would like to create just one gui impl. and only make little modifications on every device...
Aug 25 18:18:14 <FIQ> hmm
Aug 25 18:18:17 <plan_rich_> or on the os platform. question is: does it look good on every platform?
Aug 25 18:18:22 <FIQ> ok, now i've solved my problems @windows
Aug 25 18:18:39 <FIQ> opera somehow didn't download the .bin-file, and flasher-3.5 needs to be run as admin
Aug 25 18:19:40 <Venemo> plan_rich_: that is possible with #ifs
Aug 25 18:20:40 <plan_rich_> kk but maemo does use different QT or Maemo classes for its gui than the qt for linux does?
Aug 25 18:25:42 <BCMM> plan_rich_: qt GUI stuff will work on all platforms, no rewriting
Aug 25 18:25:59 <BCMM> plan_rich_: and on macos and windows, it will match "native" apps fine
Aug 25 18:26:30 <BCMM> plan_rich_: of course, you'll probably want to use a slightly different GUI on maemo because of the small screen
Aug 25 18:27:11 <plan_rich_> y how do i achieave that? macros?
Aug 25 18:27:21 <Venemo> plan_rich_: there are maemo specific classes, yes.
Aug 25 18:27:42 <lcuk> evening Venemo \o
Aug 25 18:28:32 <Venemo> plan_rich_: but you can use the "normal" Qt widgets, too
Aug 25 18:28:36 <Venemo> lcuk: good evening :)
Aug 25 18:28:47 <plan_rich_> kk
Aug 25 18:29:17 <BCMM> anyway, imho it looks good on windows and linux/maemo, if you don't have an ugly theme
Aug 25 18:29:30 <BCMM> i don't really have an opinion about osx, judge for yourself: http://mac.kde.org/images/kmail.jpg
Aug 25 18:30:07 <Venemo> plan_rich_:
Aug 25 18:30:24 <Venemo> plan_rich_: with #ifs you can have platform specific code
Aug 25 18:30:29 <FIQ> ok, fine, now i know why opera never downloaded the file
Aug 25 18:30:47 <FIQ> it didn't have access to the dir (due to limited access to Program Files directory)
Aug 25 18:30:55 * FIQ downloads to his user dir
Aug 25 18:32:42 <plan_rich_> kk thx
Aug 25 18:34:00 <Khertan> mece, Hi, i ve released a first preview of KhtEditor 0.0.3, available in maemo extras-devel
Aug 25 18:34:14 <mece> yay!
Aug 25 18:34:18 <mece> *installing*
Aug 25 18:34:19 <BCMM> i'm curious now, nokia lists maemo and linux/x11 as different platforms on their website, but surely they share practically all the the platform-specific code?
Aug 25 18:34:21 <Khertan> :)
Aug 25 18:34:34 <BCMM> i mean, on their qt website
Aug 25 18:34:43 <Khertan> i ve added some syntax hilight using pygments
Aug 25 18:34:56 <Venemo> BCMM: Qt for Maemo is based on Qt for X11
Aug 25 18:35:03 <Khertan> but it s ll be better if i use a native QSyntaxHilighter
Aug 25 18:38:54 <Shapeshifter> btw, did I ever mention that developing for the iphone is a complete joke every step of the way?
Aug 25 18:39:14 <Shapeshifter> Fate has it that I'm writing one in this project, and it's incredibly rediculous.
Aug 25 18:39:24 <Shapeshifter> just needed to share that.
Aug 25 18:39:26 <Shapeshifter> ._.
Aug 25 18:39:55 <BCMM> how come?
Aug 25 18:39:56 <Khertan> Shapeshifter, iOs is a joke
Aug 25 18:42:03 <tobis87> I did some more testing (on crypto), the essiv code only fails if I use aes with a blocksize of 256, 128 works fine, but there aren't many hash functions which only support 128: md5 and rmd128. md5 is broken, so only choice is rmd128.
Aug 25 18:43:35 <tobis87> aes-cbc-essiv:rmd128 -> no accel. 5,8MB/s with accel. 7,9MB/s without encryption 15,6MB/s (cryptsetup -c aes-cbc-essiv:rmd128 -s 128 -d /dev/urandom create swap /dev/mmcblk0p3)
Aug 25 18:45:14 <Shapeshifter> A) get a fairly recent mac, B) register as a developer, C) download and install 2.5GB SDK, D) code in a silly C wrapper language, no other options, E) read a badly written, badly organized API, F) adhere to rediculous guidelines, G) constantly fight off Apple fanboys who get angry at you for critizising anything apple, H) get a developer subscription, paying a stunning 99USD, else you can't even test it on an actualy device, even if ...
Aug 25 18:45:21 <Shapeshifter> ... you own it. (means that you CANNOT write software for your own personal use), I) have a credit card ready, else you can't subscribe, J) admire the ID check failing, Apple telling you to *fax* them a *notarized* copy of your ID, K) call the dev support, they activate it for you without hesitation, L) discover that to update your SDK from 4.0.1 to 4.0.2, you have to download the whole xcode+sdk 2.5GB AGAIN,  <future> M) Probably ...
Aug 25 18:45:27 <Shapeshifter> ... have your app rejected because some silly reason
Aug 25 18:45:29 <Shapeshifter> </wall of text>
Aug 25 18:46:28 <RST38h> Shapeshifter: Not sure if I am supposed to remind you, but ridIculous spells with I.
Aug 25 18:47:05 <Shapeshifter> RST38h: mhh, I didn't know that. I always spell it wrong. I shall try to remember.
Aug 25 18:47:46 <Khertan> hum someone know if there is a bug on qmessagebox on maemo ?
Aug 25 18:48:07 <Khertan> i always got QMessageBox.Yes when i click outside of the dialog
Aug 25 18:55:54 <slonopotamus> woah, dock station for n810! http://bu3sch.de/joomla/images/media/n810_docking_a.jpg
Aug 25 18:58:05 <lcuk> lol slonopotamus thats not a dock, it looks like a jig!
Aug 25 18:58:15 <lcuk> this is closer to a dock ;) http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1603/810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg
Aug 25 18:58:39 <slonopotamus> hehe
Aug 25 18:59:12 <RST38h> lcuk: does that fancy apple keyboard work with your n900?
Aug 25 18:59:19 <BCMM> does the n810 have tv-out like the n900?
Aug 25 18:59:31 <lcuk> RST38h, IDK
Aug 25 18:59:39 <lcuk> thats the one that the battery compartment is sealed on
Aug 25 18:59:43 <lcuk> i cant get in it to tell
Aug 25 18:59:56 <RST38h> hmmm
Aug 25 19:00:03 <RST38h> weird, mine does accept AAs
Aug 25 19:00:08 <lcuk> it does
Aug 25 19:00:11 <RST38h> but it does not work with n900
Aug 25 19:00:13 <lcuk> the compartment tube screw
Aug 25 19:00:17 <lcuk> is blocked
Aug 25 19:00:20 <RST38h> ah
Aug 25 19:00:22 <lcuk> it normally and used to open
Aug 25 19:00:31 <lcuk> but I think the old batteries were left in and leaker
Aug 25 19:00:32 <alterego> BCMM: no
Aug 25 19:00:41 <BCMM> ah
Aug 25 19:00:55 <RST38h> lcuk: you are in for some chemical cleanup work =)
Aug 25 19:01:02 <lcuk> RST38h, yes
Aug 25 19:01:07 <lcuk> when I can open it
Aug 25 19:01:16 <lcuk> I sprayed it the other day with wd40 and left it
Aug 25 19:01:20 <lcuk> I will go and look
Aug 25 19:01:26 <lcuk> either way, its a bit screwed now
Aug 25 19:01:32 <lcuk> but could still work
Aug 25 19:01:59 <RST38h> lcuk: A coin does the job
Aug 25 19:02:11 <lcuk> i bent a coin trying
Aug 25 19:02:12 <RST38h> lcuk: Something large, equivalent to US quarter
Aug 25 19:02:23 <lcuk> i had coin in the slot
Aug 25 19:02:26 <FIQ> hmm
Aug 25 19:02:28 <lcuk> and held with grips
Aug 25 19:02:32 <RST38h> Coins are no longer what they have been :)
Aug 25 19:02:32 <lcuk> and twisted
Aug 25 19:02:35 <lcuk> and the coin bent
Aug 25 19:02:39 <lcuk> but the plug remained
Aug 25 19:02:51 <FIQ> what's the switch in mkfs.ext3 to disable journal?
Aug 25 19:02:58 <FIQ> as it's useless on a flash drive
Aug 25 19:03:17 <slonopotamus> FIQ, just run mkfs.ext2
Aug 25 19:03:31 * FIQ is going to swap /home and MyDocs
Aug 25 19:03:42 <FIQ> Hm, ok
Aug 25 19:04:10 <slonopotamus> swap as in interchange or as in swapon/swapoff? :)
Aug 25 19:04:25 <FIQ> change them
Aug 25 19:05:50 <gs94> hildon-desktop is a part of rootfs right ?
Aug 25 19:06:13 <gs94> if there's a bug that's fixed. Do we need a new PR to update it ? :S
Aug 25 19:06:43 <mece> gs94, that or MohammadAG :)
Aug 25 19:07:54 <gs94> lol what does he do ?
Aug 25 19:08:52 <lcuk> gs94, yes we would need a new PR realistically, but MohammadAG does indeed have builds tracking the latest
Aug 25 19:09:11 <MohammadAG> gs94, global firmware?
Aug 25 19:10:52 <gs94> yes, I meant do we need to flash the package ?
Aug 25 19:11:58 <MohammadAG> no, stay tuned :P
Aug 25 19:12:07 <gs94> haha
Aug 25 19:12:07 <MohammadAG> s/P/)/
Aug 25 19:12:07 <infobot> MohammadAG meant: no, stay tuned :)
Aug 25 19:12:34 <MohammadAG> gs94, announcing the community SSU today, hildon-desktop is part of it
Aug 25 19:12:55 <gs94> MohammadAG: SSU ?
Aug 25 19:12:59 <MohammadAG> global firmware only till I figure out a way to generate packages
Aug 25 19:13:06 <MohammadAG> ~ssu
Aug 25 19:13:07 <infobot> it has been said that ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU
Aug 25 19:13:28 <lcuk> actually MohammadAG you arent, you are tracking the latest branch only
Aug 25 19:13:30 <lcuk> :P
Aug 25 19:13:49 <MohammadAG> aren't what :)
Aug 25 19:14:39 <gs94> hmm, how do they upgrade a binary on rootfs without the need of flashing ? :S
Aug 25 19:14:44 <slonopotamus> you just aren't :)
Aug 25 19:15:08 <MohammadAG> gs94, new maemo user? :)
Aug 25 19:15:08 <slonopotamus> gs94, (oh my!) by putting files on it
Aug 25 19:15:33 <gs94> bought the phone two days ago :)
Aug 25 19:15:47 <gs94> then what's the need of 'flashing' ?
Aug 25 19:16:08 <MohammadAG> if you f it up you need to reflash
Aug 25 19:16:09 <gs94> if rootfs is editable
Aug 25 19:16:28 <slonopotamus> gs94, flashing is only needed if you messed things up
Aug 25 19:16:32 <gs94> oh
Aug 25 19:16:54 <slonopotamus> gs94, because device doesn't have any easy recovery modes
Aug 25 19:16:58 <gs94> I thought the boot and kernel files exist on some read-only memory in the device
Aug 25 19:17:13 <slonopotamus> (like booting from usb/cd for desktop)
Aug 25 19:17:15 <MohammadAG> there's no read only memory on the device
Aug 25 19:17:22 <gs94> great!
Aug 25 19:17:37 <MohammadAG> indeed, till you write over the block which has your IMEI
Aug 25 19:17:46 <gs94> not great!
Aug 25 19:17:55 <gs94> what happens if i do that ?
Aug 25 19:18:17 <MohammadAG> well, probably a permanent brick
Aug 25 19:18:26 <MohammadAG> not sure if a cold flash would fix that
Aug 25 19:18:31 <slonopotamus> actually no
Aug 25 19:19:00 * slonopotamus has half of that area screwed up on n800 :)
Aug 25 19:19:19 <MohammadAG> but N800 != N900 :P
Aug 25 19:20:57 <kerio> MohammadAG: does that mean that we can change the IMEI at-will?
Aug 25 19:21:05 * kerio does an evil laugh
Aug 25 19:21:13 <MohammadAG> can't you do that in all mobiles?
Aug 25 19:21:24 <kerio> ._. way to spoil my laugh
Aug 25 19:21:25 <MohammadAG> afaik on S60 devices you could use NSS
Aug 25 19:21:36 * MohammadAG does an evil laugh
Aug 25 19:21:37 <slonopotamus> kerio, sure you can
Aug 25 19:22:48 <FIQ> lol, changing IMEI to whatever you want
Aug 25 19:22:49 <kerio> i'd like to complain about dbus-switchboard not telling me about the fact that i have to tap "ok" on the n900
Aug 25 19:23:07 <kerio> i really waited 10 minutes on my ssh session
Aug 25 19:23:43 <slonopotamus> dbus-switchboard - ?
Aug 25 19:29:27 <GNUtoo|laptop> hi, you seem to use gypsy
Aug 25 19:29:35 <GNUtoo|laptop> where can I find help on that?
Aug 25 19:29:39 <GNUtoo|laptop> when I do that:
Aug 25 19:32:38 <gs94> is the IMEI stored in the filesystem ?
Aug 25 19:32:47 <MohammadAG> no
Aug 25 19:32:53 <MohammadAG> /dev/mtd1 afaik
Aug 25 19:32:55 <MohammadAG> lemme check
Aug 25 19:33:02 <E0x> what make the hildon-desktop panel ( where the time and battery icon are ) stick
Aug 25 19:33:03 <GNUtoo|laptop> /usr/libexec/gypsy-daemon --no-daemon
Aug 25 19:33:05 <E0x> in all desktop ?
Aug 25 19:33:22 <GNUtoo|laptop> then I do that:
Aug 25 19:33:24 <GNUtoo|laptop> mdbus2 -s org.freedesktop.Gypsy /org/freedesktop/Gypsy org.freedesktop.Gypsy.Server.Create /dev/smd27
Aug 25 19:33:37 <GNUtoo|laptop> and the gypsy-daemon exits
Aug 25 19:35:24 <GNUtoo|laptop> how is gypsy daemon supposed to be used?
Aug 25 19:51:02 <GNUtoo|laptop> DocScrutinizer, hi
Aug 25 20:14:44 <kakashi_> I have a small problem, i think my maemo has removed kernel from itself, when I tried to do apt-get dist-upgrade :|
Aug 25 20:14:49 <kakashi_> now I cant do anything
Aug 25 20:14:52 <kakashi_> neither can I flash
Aug 25 20:14:56 <kakashi_> is there any way out?
Aug 25 20:15:12 <kakashi_> can somebody please help me?
Aug 25 20:15:30 <Appiah> what happens when you try to flash?
Aug 25 20:15:54 <Appiah> my friend did something like that (apt-get dist-upgrade) and could not start the n900.. so he just flashed
Aug 25 20:16:11 <kakashi_> I get SB device found found at bus 001, device address 021
Aug 25 20:16:33 <kakashi_> the problem with mine is that I have nitdroid too, so it is a fixed mbr
Aug 25 20:17:03 <kakashi_> I can't even flash the emmc
Aug 25 20:17:25 <ShadowJK> kernel isn't needed for flashing
Aug 25 20:18:02 <ShadowJK> so do you have flasher running before you plug in n900?
Aug 25 20:18:03 <lcuk> kakashi_, reboot your laptop, plug directly into proper port (not a hub) ?
Aug 25 20:18:57 <DocScrutinizer> apt-get dist-upgrade is known to fail and deprecated
Aug 25 20:19:25 <GNUtoo|laptop> does someone knows how to make gypsy work?
Aug 25 20:19:39 <lcuk> its never been appreciated in maemo :P since its a gui system and you have to gainroot to it :P
Aug 25 20:19:43 <kerio> what's that supposed to do anyway
Aug 25 20:20:10 <DocScrutinizer> usual problem is if you create a state where kernel doesn't match modules -> reflash needed (if you can't revert to a matching kernel)
Aug 25 20:20:52 <DocScrutinizer> IMEI is stored in cellmo, not anywhere in cal or rootfs
Aug 25 20:21:08 <DocScrutinizer> hi GNUtoo|laptop
Aug 25 20:21:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> I wonder how to make gypsy work
Aug 25 20:21:20 <GNUtoo|laptop> hi
Aug 25 20:21:39 <GNUtoo|laptop> when I do that:
Aug 25 20:21:48 <pyther> Hello
Aug 25 20:21:51 <pyther> Hello
Aug 25 20:21:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> /usr/libexec/gypsy-daemon --no-daemon it quits under fso
Aug 25 20:22:00 <pyther> Is there anyway to report a broken package?
Aug 25 20:22:19 <lcuk> prove theres a broken package first.
Aug 25 20:22:25 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://pastebin.com/gH617yvj
Aug 25 20:22:25 <pyther> lcuk: ses
Aug 25 20:22:37 <pyther> dpkg -L doesn't list any binaries and only documentation
Aug 25 20:22:50 <lcuk> is it in extras?
Aug 25 20:23:15 <GNUtoo|laptop> DocScrutinizer, maemo uses stock gypsy no?
Aug 25 20:23:33 <pyther> lcuk: no devel
Aug 25 20:23:48 <kakashi_> hmm... seems like something worked
Aug 25 20:23:51 <DocScrutinizer> GNUtoo|laptop: not afaik
Aug 25 20:23:55 <kakashi_> I put the battery after connecting
Aug 25 20:23:58 <lcuk> then report it to who? if you insist theres a maintainer email address
Aug 25 20:24:04 <lcuk> but its there for -devel purposes
Aug 25 20:24:12 <lcuk> not anything official todo really
Aug 25 20:24:23 <kakashi_> but hey, dist-upgrade is deprecated ?
Aug 25 20:24:26 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo#gypsy_daemon  is wrong then?
Aug 25 20:24:27 <kakashi_> I didn't know
Aug 25 20:24:57 <pyther> I thought devel was like a testing dir :-/
Aug 25 20:25:02 <lcuk> yes
Aug 25 20:25:09 <lcuk> it is
Aug 25 20:25:10 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API
Aug 25 20:25:19 <pyther> well I figured packages with no content really don't belong
Aug 25 20:26:07 <lcuk> pyther, the package contains stuff?
Aug 25 20:26:11 <lcuk> just not what you were expecting
Aug 25 20:26:26 <lcuk> ie, talk to the dev and dont wail here
Aug 25 20:26:30 <DocScrutinizer> GNUtoo|laptop: the fact there *is* some gypsy implementation doesn't mean maemo stock is using it
Aug 25 20:26:38 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah ok
Aug 25 20:26:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> so the thing is incorrect
Aug 25 20:27:03 <pyther> lcuk: lcuk just a changelog, readme, and copyright file
Aug 25 20:27:13 <GNUtoo|laptop> This appears to be free to me: http://gypsy.freedesktop.org/wiki/
Aug 25 20:27:23 <GNUtoo|laptop> oops I forgott the quotes
Aug 25 20:28:00 <lcuk> pyther, so mail the developer and talk to him, really, thats it.
Aug 25 20:28:20 <lcuk> or move to the next one
Aug 25 20:28:43 <ShadowJK> kakashi_, well atleast don't do dist-upgrade on maemo
Aug 25 20:28:45 <pyther> ok
Aug 25 20:29:15 <kakashi_> ShadowJK, thanks for the advice, I just killed my phone now :)
Aug 25 20:29:47 <pyther> Is there anyway to see what packages I have installed from devel?
Aug 25 20:34:20 <DocScrutinizer> GNUtoo|laptop: refer to history of that wikipage
Aug 25 20:34:36 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah ok
Aug 25 20:34:40 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll look
Aug 25 20:35:15 <pyther> I wonder how hard it would be to compile a static mplayer binary
Aug 25 20:49:34 <DocScrutinizer> pyther: I own a pkg that has no binaries and yet is considered highly useful and even is in extras now, with "approval" by Nokia :-D
Aug 25 20:49:58 <PerfDave> Hey, quick question - where's the easiest place to get wget for my N900?
Aug 25 20:50:08 <DocScrutinizer> one of the most important pkgs on maemo seems to be exactly same: rootsh
Aug 25 20:51:19 <DocScrutinizer> PerfDave: HAM?
Aug 25 20:51:31 <DocScrutinizer> or apt-get?
Aug 25 20:51:35 <PerfDave> What's a HAM?
Aug 25 20:51:47 <PerfDave> It's not in the N900 application manager
Aug 25 20:52:06 <DocScrutinizer> it is, you just don't see it :-P
Aug 25 20:52:18 <DocScrutinizer> apt-get install wget
Aug 25 20:52:46 <lcuk> gnite #maemo \o
Aug 25 20:53:06 <PerfDave> Fair enough, thanks DocScrutinizer
Aug 25 20:53:14 <DocScrutinizer> wget is a cmdline app, so probably isn't in HAM user category. Install via apt-get
Aug 25 21:21:16 <tobis87> New voice message on UVB-76: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVB-76#Voice_messages http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42r3kywogT8
Aug 25 21:22:35 <alterego> Made some really nice progress on my GPS app :)
Aug 25 21:37:17 <FIQ> o hai
Aug 25 21:37:30 <FIQ> how did i turn on autorepeat?
Aug 25 21:37:54 <FIQ> (i.e. turn off the automatic char2fn-char on hold)
Aug 25 21:41:05 <jaem> FIQ: There is a status applet and a home screen widget to do that.  I'm not sure what it actually does to make the change, so it may be trivial to do manually.
Aug 25 21:43:31 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm you did? acidentally?
Aug 25 21:44:22 <DocScrutinizer51> seems it's been some gconf curse
Aug 25 21:44:52 <FIQ> ugh, chsh didn't let me change default shell to bash. :(
Aug 25 21:45:10 <FIQ> 	Login Shell [/bin/sh]: /bin/bash
Aug 25 21:45:10 <DocScrutinizer51> I'd love to have a simple way to switch of that BS without googling for the magic cmdline
Aug 25 21:45:14 <FIQ> has worked before
Aug 25 21:45:26 <kerio> FIQ: add /bin/bash to /etc/shells
Aug 25 21:45:42 <DocScrutinizer51> enjoy bootloop
Aug 25 21:46:17 <FIQ> DocScrutinizer, but it has worked before? : <
Aug 25 21:46:36 <FIQ> and i've already reflashed the device today
Aug 25 21:46:57 <FIQ> i hope i don't have to do it again the coming weeks. :P
Aug 25 21:47:32 <FIQ> uh, where did nano go
Aug 25 21:47:37 * FIQ installs it again
Aug 25 21:47:40 <DocScrutinizer51> for obvious reasons never tested it myself, but there have been multiple reports claiming the changing of user default shell away from messybox renders system messedup
Aug 25 21:48:21 <FIQ> hm
Aug 25 21:48:34 <kerio> changing it for the user is fine here
Aug 25 21:48:48 <FIQ> i did change it before, but then i did it manually
Aug 25 21:49:07 <FIQ> (aka "nano /etc/passwd")
Aug 25 21:49:51 <FIQ> /etc/shells didn't exist
Aug 25 21:50:02 <FIQ> dunno the syntax used in it
Aug 25 21:50:59 <DocScrutinizer> without etc/shells the new default shell should have no effect, as aiui only shells listed in etc/shells are really allowed
Aug 25 21:51:02 <nox-> moin
Aug 25 21:51:20 <Noma> which one works better, meego in n900 or android in n900?
Aug 25 21:51:33 <DocScrutinizer> so that's a commonly used explanation why for some users changing login shell didn't break things
Aug 25 21:52:12 <DocScrutinizer> you might be interested in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools , regarding "where is nano? I reflashed today and now it's gone"
Aug 25 21:53:01 <FIQ> hmm
Aug 25 21:53:11 <FIQ> changing it manually didn't break things. :d
Aug 25 21:53:21 <DocScrutinizer> the file ~root/installed-aps.sh comes in handy should I ever again face that situation
Aug 25 21:54:02 <DocScrutinizer> wtf :d
Aug 25 21:54:08 <FIQ> Well, i don't mind
Aug 25 21:54:18 <FIQ> as i reflashed only 10 mins after use
Aug 25 21:54:29 <FIQ> installed 3 apps
Aug 25 21:54:52 <FIQ> (new N900, my old get it's charger port breaked)
Aug 25 21:55:25 <FIQ> the nice thing with getting a new is that now, i have double of everything. :P
Aug 25 21:55:29 <DocScrutinizer> mhm, 3 apps in 10min, wait lemme do the math what you need to redo if you have to reflash in 5 weeks :-P
Aug 25 21:55:35 <FIQ> 2 batteries, 2 charger, etc
Aug 25 21:55:38 <FIQ> meh
Aug 25 21:55:45 <FIQ> rootsh, notmynokia, nano
Aug 25 21:55:46 <andax> handy for the situation that apt-get sticks? (i still ahve such problem...)
Aug 25 21:56:20 <FIQ> hm
Aug 25 21:56:40 <FIQ> 86400/60, times 3.5
Aug 25 21:56:59 <FIQ> times 3
Aug 25 21:57:01 <FIQ> iirc
Aug 25 21:57:05 <FIQ> but i'm tired
Aug 25 21:58:31 <andax> FIQ: charger port is a fault in construction
Aug 25 21:58:35 <andax> IMHO
Aug 25 21:59:08 <FIQ> well, i didn't pay anything. :D
Aug 25 21:59:18 <FIQ> so i'm just happy about getting 2x of things
Aug 25 21:59:39 <andax> oh,great ;-)
Aug 25 21:59:44 <FIQ> (anything for the reparation i mean)
Aug 25 22:00:15 <FIQ> now i actually can use the device normally after 1.5years when the battery is unusable
Aug 25 22:03:28 <andax> lucky you. my connector had some spontaneous dropouts too, after approx. 9 months of use and i handled with great care
Aug 25 22:04:19 <andax> but i made a contract including 2 years warranty, so i dont mind
Aug 25 22:08:04 <SpeedEvil> On UI fails.
Aug 25 22:08:25 <SpeedEvil> 'After extensive testing, a particular scenario was found which could  explain what had happened.
Aug 25 22:08:26 <SpeedEvil> The pilot, being of a certain height and in that aircraft at that  particular time of day and year, adjusted his seat and visor for the  glare of the low sun. To do so, he had to move a map reading light which  was on a stalk. The light fell out of its clip, and dropped down  against the seat where it somehow fouled the ejector system. Operating  the seat adjuster then fired the ejection system, and the poor guy was  shot out into the slipstream withou
Aug 25 22:10:29 <nox-> o_O
Aug 25 22:36:36 <FIQ> wtf
Aug 25 22:36:56 <FIQ> how many files are it in ,thumbnails/cropped? o_o
Aug 25 22:37:12 <FIQ> and what is that anyway
Aug 25 22:37:26 <Aranel> I wonder why MyDocs doesnt show up on Mass Storage Mode if I insert an MMC card. (It shows partitions on MMC btw)
Aug 25 22:39:05 <DocScrutinizer> omg, *#-ena has more dl than coreutils-gnu
Aug 25 22:40:06 <FIQ> i did just download coreutils. :p
Aug 25 22:40:36 <kerio> coreutils <£
Aug 25 22:40:39 <kerio> er
Aug 25 22:40:40 <kerio> <3
Aug 25 22:43:16 <Aranel> hmm. can someone with a MMC card try and confirm this: On Mass Storage Mode, MyDocs doesn't mount/show up if an MMC card inserted. I'm thinking of filing a report if its a bug. :)
Aug 25 22:43:39 <DocScrutinizer> eh?
Aug 25 22:44:21 <DocScrutinizer> on mass storage mode both MyDocs and card should be unmounted
Aug 25 22:45:33 <kerio> Aranel: does that for me
Aug 25 22:45:36 <cehteh> MMC card?
Aug 25 22:45:52 <kerio> a µSD
Aug 25 22:46:19 <cehteh> thats the question .. are the MMC cards in µSD form factor or only SD cards?
Aug 25 22:46:32 <cehteh> are there MMC exist in the wild anymore?
Aug 25 22:46:39 <Aranel> DocScrutinizer: no, i mean the desktop pc, not the device itself. MyDocs doesn't show up on PC if MMC inserted.
Aug 25 22:46:55 <DocScrutinizer> here it does
Aug 25 22:47:03 <cehteh> Windows PC?
Aug 25 22:47:53 <Aranel> hmm. so It's not reproducible :| Maybe it's because of NITdroid? Do you have it on your card?
Aug 25 22:47:54 * nox- suspects it didnt umount probably bc some process still had something open on there?
Aug 25 22:47:56 <cehteh> the device exports 2 cards .. some people reported that not every computer (usb driver, hub, whatever) can handle that more than on storage device is on a single port
Aug 25 22:48:49 <Aranel> nox-: but it works now perfectly, after I removed the card.
Aug 25 22:49:02 <cehteh> Aranel: what OS?
Aug 25 22:49:33 <Aranel> cehteh: Ubuntu GNU/Linux
Aug 25 22:49:51 <cehteh> mhm strange then .. what does 'lsusb' say?
Aug 25 22:50:48 <Aranel> cehteh: It adds two new devices after plugging my device on it; sdd1 (MMC - Android), sdd2 (MMC) and sde which I can't mount.
Aug 25 22:50:56 <Aranel> cehteh: wait a minute
Aug 25 22:51:04 <Aranel> cehteh: inserting my card again =)
Aug 25 22:51:50 <cehteh> reminds me that i turned this storage thing and unmounting completely off :P
Aug 25 22:54:58 <Aranel> wut
Aug 25 22:55:06 <Aranel> now It mounts everything perfect.
Aug 25 22:55:11 <Aranel> to make me shy. :|
Aug 25 22:55:13 <Aranel> :p
Aug 25 22:56:22 <Aranel> now I'm starting to believe there's some magic on this device :) thanks anyway, I'll file a report if it doesn't work again.
Aug 25 22:58:38 <DocScrutinizer51> an open file might stop unmounting, so it can't get exported
Aug 25 22:59:09 <Aranel> DocScrutinizer: maybe umount --force can do the trick on that case?
Aug 25 23:02:50 <lcuk> FIQ, the thumbnails/cropped contains thumbnails of all detected images, the filename is derived from the md5'ed string of the path
Aug 25 23:03:07 <FIQ> ok
Aug 25 23:03:23 <FIQ> how big could it be
Aug 25 23:03:37 <lcuk> depends how many images you have
Aug 25 23:03:55 <FIQ> yeah, of course
Aug 25 23:03:58 <lcuk> and potentially also from album art, I can't remember if that is also stored in the same manner
Aug 25 23:04:10 <FIQ> but let's say i've 1k
Aug 25 23:05:15 <lcuk> well I have 2310
Aug 25 23:06:00 <FIQ> and size of the dir is?
Aug 25 23:06:23 <lcuk> 7.5MB
Aug 25 23:09:18 <FIQ> oh, not a big deal then
Aug 25 23:13:50 <luke-jr> I think I'm going to regret teaching my 4 year old how to use a phone…
Aug 25 23:14:04 <lcuk> luke-jr, tablet mode
Aug 25 23:14:16 <luke-jr> ⁇?
Aug 25 23:14:22 <luke-jr> not the N900
Aug 25 23:14:27 <luke-jr> just a regular hard-phone
Aug 25 23:14:31 <luke-jr> but she keeps calling me
Aug 25 23:14:41 <lcuk> :D
Aug 25 23:14:49 <luke-jr> literally every other minute
Aug 25 23:17:43 <MNZ> Hi guys, I just cloned the hildon-desktop repo and built a packge (after forging the package version....) and installed to my N900... now by my best guess when the next SSU rolls around nothing should go wrong  and I would be updated normally and this package will be replaced, is there anything I'm missing?
Aug 25 23:18:41 <lcuk> mnz talk tomorrow in #maemo-ssu, the ramifications of such an action are being discussed and stuff
Aug 25 23:19:23 <lcuk> and having the input from people actively building their own branches and hacking is important :)
Aug 25 23:20:09 <lcuk> MNZ, did you build it to want to make further modifications, or as a challenge!
Aug 25 23:20:25 <MNZ> lcuk, as I imagine it, the 'SSU' is just basic package management right? So I went with the what could possibly go wrong(TM) approach
Aug 25 23:20:52 <MNZ> no I needed to fix the annoying battery drain bug triggered by catorise decreasing the menu to one page
Aug 25 23:20:53 <lcuk> mnz, that is what we are considering at the moment
Aug 25 23:21:19 <lcuk> the biggest potential thing is not knowing which version of community altered packages will end up in the ssu
Aug 25 23:21:51 <lcuk> MNZ, do you have a bug number and is your clone public?
Aug 25 23:22:07 <MNZ> oh no someone got to it before I could figure it out myself :D
Aug 25 23:22:15 <MNZ> it's already committed by adam
Aug 25 23:22:39 <lcuk> :) yes, madam is very skilled
Aug 25 23:23:32 <lcuk> in general if you are talking about fixes, try to use the bug numbers, it helps to add context - ok so you just wanted a jump on the official ssu
Aug 25 23:24:08 <MNZ> yeah, it was a pretty annoying bug :@
Aug 25 23:24:16 <lcuk> MohammadAG51 has been doing some patching and examination of a few of the hildon libraries
Aug 25 23:24:36 <lcuk> and has setup a repository to keep the latest tip of a few community apps together
Aug 25 23:25:09 <lcuk> I believe since you are talking about something madam already patched it should be available from there for future reference
Aug 25 23:25:31 <MNZ> slightly off topic, is the community going to seize development of maemo or what is going to happen?
Aug 25 23:26:05 <lcuk> MNZ, no - maemo as a whole is a large complete operating system
Aug 25 23:26:31 <lcuk> the hildon stuff being examined at the moment is only a small fragment of that
Aug 25 23:26:57 <lcuk> but its also the most beneficial from OSS perspective - because as you have seen, its open :)
Aug 25 23:28:10 <MNZ> yeah, so that commit msg on the lines of 'you are free, go forth and fork' is only specific to hildon or what? What I mean is, is nokia still going to be involved with maemo?
Aug 25 23:28:38 <lcuk> mnz, IDK
Aug 25 23:29:09 <lcuk> but since pretty much everywhere in the source are @nokia.com addresses of passionate linux supporters
Aug 25 23:29:29 <MNZ> meh, they should make some public announcement explaining themselves
Aug 25 23:29:42 <lcuk> maybe theres no announce yet
Aug 25 23:31:25 <lcuk> incidentally, debian addresses pop up a lot as do igalia and lanedo and imendio and a tonne of others :P
Aug 25 23:32:07 <lcuk> (I have occupied myself browsing the package maintainers lists recently :))
Aug 25 23:32:56 <MNZ> well, what I gather is the community is pretty strong :D always a good thing
Aug 25 23:33:06 * lcuk nods
Aug 25 23:33:24 <lcuk> theres lots of support and enthusiasm to follow up on this
Aug 25 23:34:08 <lcuk> it also flows nicely into meego since there are some interested parties there trying to get the hildon libs working on the handset image
Aug 25 23:35:22 <MNZ> I still don't like meego for some reason :@ I guess it's just my debian bias :/
Aug 25 23:35:47 <lcuk> well, I like the look of some of the apps, I think they have potential
Aug 25 23:35:57 <lcuk> but I would like to see them with debian packages and available here ;)
Aug 25 23:36:46 <lcuk> community could then help to make them into the world beaters they should be
Aug 25 23:39:30 * raster eyes Qt in Meego suspiciously
Aug 25 23:39:53 <lcuk> isn't that known as rasterizing?
Aug 25 23:41:23 <raster> hahahahha
Aug 25 23:41:28 <raster> nah
Aug 25 23:41:31 <raster> thats the bit when i fix Qt
Aug 25 23:41:32 <raster> :)
Aug 25 23:41:37 <raster> "fix"
Aug 25 23:41:37 <raster> :)
Aug 25 23:45:03 <MNZ> lcuk, when's this talk tomorrow?
Aug 25 23:45:38 <lcuk> mnz, just more daytimey, i meant more thats when most folks are active
Aug 25 23:45:46 <lcuk> its midnightish now
Aug 25 23:46:30 <MNZ> it's midnightish depending on where you are :D
Aug 25 23:46:40 <MNZ> (though it IS midnightish where I am)
Aug 25 23:47:45 <asj> is midday here
Aug 25 23:49:18 <FIQ> 1:47 here
Aug 25 23:51:24 <FIQ> Formatting /dev/mmcblk1p1 (vfat) ...FAILURE. Bailing out.
Aug 25 23:51:27 <FIQ> hmm...
Aug 25 23:51:36 <FIQ> could this have  to do
Aug 25 23:51:49 <FIQ> with the fact that it's formatted as ext3 atm?
Aug 25 23:52:10 <FIQ> (trying to install NITDroid
Aug 25 23:52:13 <FIQ> )
Aug 25 23:53:36 <FIQ> trying to do it manually results in this:
Aug 25 23:53:38 <FIQ> mkfs.vfat: Too few blocks for viable file system
Aug 25 23:55:01 <vltR> you made sth wrong with sfdisk imo
Aug 25 23:55:54 <FIQ> ehm
Aug 25 23:56:07 <FIQ> i've never used sfdisk on my memcard
Aug 25 23:56:53 <FIQ> hm
Aug 25 23:56:56 <FIQ> uh
Aug 25 23:57:01 <FIQ> why this
Aug 25 23:57:04 <FIQ> /dev/mmcblk1             14.8G      8.0k     14.8G   0% /media/mmc1
Aug 25 23:57:17 <FIQ> isn't it supposed to end with "p1"?
Aug 25 23:57:22 <FIQ> as in partition 1
Aug 25 23:58:06 <oneil> hello, i followed the link from the wiki. hoping to get some help
Aug 25 23:58:15 <vltR> mmcblk1 is ur memcard which is divided to p1 and p2
Aug 25 23:58:26 <vltR> partition1 , partition2
Aug 25 23:59:00 <FIQ> yeah
Aug 25 23:59:16 <FIQ> but, why is the whole memcard mounted instead of a partition of it?
Aug 26 00:00:19 <lcuk> oneil, hi, just ask your question as clearly as possible and we will happily continue to ignore you (unless someone knows the answer \o)
Aug 26 00:00:38 <oneil> i am trying to make my google talk work on my n900 but its having a GV data code 20 erro. any pointer on how to solve this considering an in the uk
Aug 26 00:01:30 <FIQ> I guess i screwed smth up, but how to remove the partition on "mmcblk1" (so i can do a partition at "mmcblk1p1")?
Aug 26 00:01:43 * FIQ man mkfs.vfat
Aug 26 00:01:44 <lcuk> not very clear, where are you seeing the error and give the specific error message, not shortened or abreviated
Aug 26 00:01:51 <FIQ> oh, no man atm...
Aug 26 00:01:53 <lcuk> oneil, ^
Aug 26 00:01:54 <MNZ> FIQ, did you use mkvfat on /dev/mmcblk1 ?
Aug 26 00:02:08 <FIQ> Don't remember, could happen
Aug 26 00:02:34 <MNZ> don't worry about the filesystem, just use sfdisk again (properly this time) and next time run mkvfat on the p1/p2 devices
Aug 26 00:04:47 <andax> SpeedEvil: still flying? xD xD xD
Aug 26 00:04:58 <FIQ> but i've never used sfdisk before. :) - so how to just wipe out the partition?
Aug 26 00:06:35 <MNZ> FIQ, if by wipe out you mean remove the current filesystem you have on it... then you don't really need to wipe it out, just repartition the device and create new filesystems. I haven't used sfdisk myself before, I'm used to fdisk, but you should get it on your desktop and read the man page
Aug 26 00:07:12 <oneil> there was a probl!m with GV('data':('code':20) 'ok' false)
Aug 26 00:08:05 <lcuk> oneil, which application window or log did you read that from
Aug 26 00:08:32 <SkyscraperN900> mohammadag51 whats up with ubuntu??
Aug 26 00:08:32 <MNZ> FIQ, http://linux.die.net/man/8/sfdisk
Aug 26 00:08:39 <oneil> dail central
Aug 26 00:08:53 <FIQ> ty
Aug 26 00:09:05 <lcuk> oneil, did it used to work?
Aug 26 00:09:59 <oneil> no i just installed it. but the google talk works on my pc
Aug 26 00:10:31 <lcuk> then look on the dialcentral bug trcker
Aug 26 00:11:10 <MNZ> oneil, have you tried the built in google talk integration in maemo? Maybe that'll do?
Aug 26 00:11:41 <SkyscraperN900> hm... have to sleep. good night!
Aug 26 00:12:35 <oneil> i tried the one that comes with the phone but it keeps on dailing with no tone
Aug 26 00:13:29 <andax> good night SkyscraperN900
Aug 26 00:13:37 <oneil> but my skpe works fine
Aug 26 00:23:21 <PolarFox> Wow... I like the old kinetik scroll :)
Aug 26 00:33:03 <oneil> mzn, i got the erro message from dail central
Aug 26 00:37:12 <MNZ> oneil, sorry can't help. I'd say give the built in one another shot and see what happens. Look for the dial central's bug tracker and see if this is already reported
Aug 26 00:41:36 <oneil> thanks. where do i find the bug tracker? on maemo?
Aug 26 00:48:25 <GAN900> http://bugs.maemo.org
Aug 26 00:53:24 <lainwir3d> hi
Aug 26 00:54:16 <lainwir3d> i'm trying to import a client pkcs12 certificate for website authentification
Aug 26 00:54:22 <lainwir3d> however it doesn't seems to work
Aug 26 00:55:13 <lainwir3d> when i try to import it it ask for a "purpose" and i get these choice: server / wifi / email
Aug 26 00:55:39 <lainwir3d> whatever i choose even if i check all of those it doesn't seems to work in maemo's browser
Aug 26 00:55:48 <lainwir3d> oh... N900 with PR1.2 btw
Aug 26 00:56:42 <lainwir3d> does someone have an idea please? i think that my certificate has something wrong with it because i read somewhere that there should be another option
Aug 26 00:56:48 <lainwir3d> like "web browsing" or similar
Aug 26 01:00:35 <GAN900> I'd tend to blame Maemo
Aug 26 01:00:48 <GAN900> but I don't deal with certs, so I have no suggestions.
Aug 26 01:02:40 <lainwir3d> well thanks anyway for answering :)
Aug 26 01:03:55 <lainwir3d> oh
Aug 26 01:03:59 <lainwir3d> found something in apt
Aug 26 01:04:02 <lainwir3d> "microb-engine-common-ext - Cert and password manager for microb"
Aug 26 01:04:10 <lainwir3d> i'm going to try that
Aug 26 01:04:25 <oneil> x
Aug 26 01:14:19 <lainwir3d> ok i got it to work by cheating
Aug 26 01:14:45 <lainwir3d> if someone is interested:
Aug 26 01:15:07 <lainwir3d> i typed "chrome://pippki/content/certManager.xul" into microb address bar and "firefox" certificate manager appeared. From there i just added my certificate
Aug 26 01:17:49 <lainwir3d> well then
Aug 26 01:17:51 <lainwir3d> good night
Aug 26 01:32:15 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: The TAS5631 is a high-performance PWM input class-D amplifier with integrated closed-loop feedback technology (known as PurePath HD technology) with the ability to drive up to 300 W (1) stereo into 4- to 8- speakers from a single 50-V suppl
Aug 26 01:32:39 <pupnik> http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tas5631.html
Aug 26 01:48:31 <pupnik> oh i found a direct-digital amplifier NAD M2 ($5999)
Aug 26 01:48:46 <Dhraakellian> recommendation for a mail client with threading?
Aug 26 01:58:12 <pupnik> mutt supports threading Dhraakellian
Aug 26 01:59:16 <pupnik> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-mail_clients  half way down you can see which support threads :)
Aug 26 02:06:00 <DocScrutinizer51> heh, that cert manager URL of lainwir3d is amazing. Quite worth the bookmark, even with google icon :-P
Aug 26 02:38:57 <pyther> Hi
Aug 26 02:39:07 <pyther> Is there any place to save busybox aliases?
Aug 26 02:41:18 <pupnik> you mean shell aliases like ll='ls -al'
Aug 26 02:41:21 <pupnik> ?
Aug 26 02:41:40 <pupnik> @ pyther
Aug 26 02:42:03 <pyther> pupnik: yes
Aug 26 02:42:54 <DocScrutinizer> I usually have them in a special file ~/aliases and this file gets sourced in one of the init scripts
Aug 26 02:45:40 <pyther> DocScrutinizer: ok that is good to know I found out that I can put them in .profile to
Aug 26 02:46:25 <DocScrutinizer> SURE YOU CAN, BUT IT'S AWKWARD
Aug 26 02:46:35 <DocScrutinizer> oops sorry capslock
Aug 26 02:49:18 <DocScrutinizer> I have `alias -p >$HOME/bash-aliases` in my .bash_logout
Aug 26 02:49:39 <pyther> how is it awkward?
Aug 26 02:50:31 <DocScrutinizer> and in .bashrc I have `. $HOME/bash-aliases`
Aug 26 02:51:10 * luke-jr notes Maemo doesn't use bash
Aug 26 02:51:27 <DocScrutinizer> what sed + awk cruft would you suggest do implemet same thing for holding alies defs in .bashrc directly?
Aug 26 02:51:28 <pupnik> interesting, never thought of adding aliases automatically
Aug 26 02:51:49 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: maemo doesn't use aliases either
Aug 26 02:51:54 <luke-jr> pupnik: me either, if I add them, I always go straight for the bash_profile
Aug 26 02:52:00 <DocScrutinizer> but *I* do :-P
Aug 26 02:52:10 <pyther> DocScrutinizer: busybox support aliases
Aug 26 02:52:13 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: I think pyther was asking about Maemo
Aug 26 02:52:19 <pyther> I was
Aug 26 02:52:25 <DocScrutinizer> so what?
Aug 26 02:52:52 <DocScrutinizer> Nokia-N900-42-11:~# which bash
Aug 26 02:52:53 <DocScrutinizer> /bin/bash
Aug 26 02:53:01 <luke-jr> which one
Aug 26 02:53:01 <pyther> and alias ihr="/home/user/iheartradioN900.py' works if and stays if I toss it into .profile
Aug 26 02:53:03 <luke-jr> one: not found
Aug 26 02:53:05 <DocScrutinizer> ~nuke messybox
Aug 26 02:53:06 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at messybox ... B☢☢M!
Aug 26 02:54:04 <pyther> Well I better go to bed, I got class in the morning my iheartradio script works
Aug 26 02:54:05 <DocScrutinizer> pyther: happy messing around with nano for each silly alias
Aug 26 02:54:36 <pyther> DocScrutinizer: I only need a few right now
Aug 26 02:54:40 <DocScrutinizer> alias as=alias
Aug 26 02:54:48 <pyther> haha
Aug 26 02:54:55 <DocScrutinizer> as lp=lart pyther
Aug 26 02:55:05 <pyther> later all
Aug 26 02:55:13 <DocScrutinizer> oops that's not bash
Aug 26 02:58:08 <kerio> ~lart | nuke DocScrutinizer
Aug 26 02:58:08 * infobot whips | nuke DocScrutinizer with a wet and grimy noodle just because
Aug 26 02:58:21 <kerio> infobot: learn to piping commands
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 26 02:59:57 2010