**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 27 02:59:57 2010 Aug 27 03:01:25 luke-jr: could you reproduce/verify that? and then file a bug? :-D Aug 27 03:02:07 OMCK Aug 27 03:06:01 luke-jr: wait. That wasn't a VoIP call? Aug 27 03:55:53 moo Aug 27 03:56:34 ;-D Aug 27 03:57:09 :D Aug 27 03:57:14 DocScrutinizer, hello :P Aug 27 04:02:49 Any reason why entering a chroot would slow the n900 down? Because thats what seems to happen Aug 27 04:02:53 (for me) Aug 27 04:03:25 and then i do some stuff with qemu in my chroot, and I need to restart because its so slow :P Aug 27 04:08:04 you're running qemu in a chroot on an N900 and wondering why it's slow? Aug 27 04:08:56 johnx, no, im wondering why after exiting the system stays sluggish Aug 27 04:09:04 exiting qemu* Aug 27 04:10:57 run top before and after? look for interesting patterns in terms of memory usage? Aug 27 04:12:58 entering a chroot? Aug 27 04:13:00 memory usage Aug 27 04:13:07 lolswappartition Aug 27 04:15:20 TermanaN900: try joggling with a temporary swapfile, and swapoff; swapon - swapping swap ;-) Aug 27 05:27:31 anyone know how i can launch fennec on the command line on n900? Aug 27 05:30:47 finally Aug 27 05:31:27 by typing fennec? Aug 27 05:32:11 the executable name is browser Aug 27 05:32:16 browser doesn't work Aug 27 05:32:26 browser --url= works Aug 27 05:34:31 what's going to happen to processes with lots of swapped out memory pages, on swapoff? will they simply terminate with fatal non-catchable signal? Aug 27 05:50:10 ~wake hackers Aug 27 05:50:35 * infobot throws a barrel-full of ice water on hackers and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" Aug 27 05:57:11 DocScrutinizer51: yo Aug 27 05:57:36 crashanddie: yo Aug 27 05:57:49 DocScrutinizer51: most likely, they'll segfault or have future malloc()'s die Aug 27 05:58:23 future malloc()'s? the ones in the discarded memepages? :-P Aug 27 05:59:53 segfault sounds logical Aug 27 06:00:32 Hey,I have a problem with Firefox Sync on Maemo,mm,I wonder if anyone can help me? Aug 27 06:01:35 ~ask Aug 27 06:01:36 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Aug 27 06:01:43 So,For saving time,the question is actually that I do not have any problem with open tabs sync,but the bookmarks seems unsnced Aug 27 06:02:23 And I know about that do not ask to ask,I just did it to get sure I am in right place and I mustn't stick to firefox support ways Aug 27 06:02:42 DocScrutinizer2: maybe this provides some insight: http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Swapoff_Performance Aug 27 06:03:00 crashanddie: mille gracie Aug 27 06:04:18 KnightStalker: truth is, it's 8AM in mainland Europe, where most contributors are from, so it's really not noisey at the moment Aug 27 06:04:38 too busy eating musli Aug 27 06:04:43 or drinking coffee Aug 27 06:04:45 mornin folks o/ Aug 27 06:04:51 Mmm.. Cafe Aug 27 06:04:52 Ugh, coffee :) Aug 27 06:05:02 thanks Stskeeps, i'm off to get an expresso Aug 27 06:05:07 I would crack up if someone said he was taking a shower Aug 27 06:06:34 getting there.. Aug 27 06:06:34 :P Aug 27 06:07:17 Need a waterproof device first, but then it would be a nice option :) Aug 27 06:12:08 is there any relible way to sync my google calendar. Aug 27 06:12:10 * rmrfchik depressed Aug 27 06:12:41 * thresh gives '?' to rmrfchik Aug 27 06:12:56 use it wisely! Aug 27 06:20:28 is there any relible way to sync my google calendar >>?<< Aug 27 06:21:20 rmrfchik: you idiot Aug 27 06:21:33 rmrfchik: if you want Google junk, get Android? Aug 27 06:21:45 rmrfchik: why the heck do you think exchange is implemented on the device? Aug 27 06:21:57 rmrfchik: the only thing that works are calendar and contacts, btw Aug 27 06:22:26 rmrfchik: don't take it to heart, they haven't had their coffee Aug 27 06:22:28 crashanddie: you idiot. MfE doesn't work Aug 27 06:22:34 ...after 2-3 weeks Aug 27 06:22:46 just stop working. need to recreate calendar. Aug 27 06:22:47 blame Google Aug 27 06:23:08 * luke-jr actually has 3 unsync'd calendars… Aug 27 06:24:05 blerg. now appmanager doesnt show any catalogues. Aug 27 06:24:27 oh finally, after 3 minutes it did. Aug 27 06:25:17 useless piece of junk. Aug 27 06:39:42 appmanager gets really slow once you have many (non-default) repositories Aug 27 06:39:50 Yup :/ Aug 27 06:39:50 I guess it inherits that from the dpkg text-based database Aug 27 06:40:12 Faster Application Manager is a bit faster. Aug 27 06:40:21 And at least it shows you what's happening behind the scenes Aug 27 06:45:25 to whom it may concern (swapoff): http://lkml.org/lkml/2004/3/29/241 Aug 27 06:54:58 random Aug 27 06:57:07 urandom Aug 27 07:00:32 thresh: only 3 minutes? lightning fast :-P Aug 27 07:02:16 COFFEE Aug 27 07:25:15 http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/26/commodore-usa-announces-the-pc64-an-atom-powered-pc-in-a-replic/ <- that really is temptng Aug 27 07:27:00 rmrfchik: I've been using my calendar for months, never noticed anything dying after a few weeks Aug 27 07:27:27 lucky idiot Aug 27 07:28:27 well, you're an idiot for not specifying you tried it Aug 27 07:28:54 "is there any way to synch google calendar aside from MfE which is broken for me" Aug 27 07:28:56 simples. Aug 27 07:29:10 it's bad morning for you or it's you regular way to communicate? Aug 27 07:29:26 pretty much regular, methinks Aug 27 07:30:01 DocScrutinizer: this might make you gag: Aug 27 07:30:04 ok, plz, ignore me. Aug 27 07:30:05 – Can I get source code for this driver? Aug 27 07:30:05 No, the Intel® Embedded Media and Graphics Driver (EMGD) was designed so that Intel graphics chipset customers would not need access to the source code. Aug 27 07:30:23 Stskeeps: lmao Aug 27 07:30:33 ORLY? Aug 27 07:30:33 muhahaha Aug 27 07:30:50 rmrfchik: /ignore is a powerful tool, use it wisely ;) Aug 27 07:31:01 which is fucking ironic considering it's tied to a certain xorg Aug 27 07:31:19 crashanddie: you don't get it. please you ignore me. Aug 27 07:31:37 Stskeeps: that's just painful Aug 27 07:33:08 fail Aug 27 07:33:24 why? Aug 27 07:33:34 err, how? Aug 27 07:35:48 hmm, chanserv topicadd, nice... but clumsy, when you got a decent textedit window to manage the topic Aug 27 07:36:53 actually is was more for the double pipe and double spaces Aug 27 07:37:13 and you can also simply replace the whole topic Aug 27 07:37:43 rmrfchik: just get a coffee, ignore crashanddie's rude manners, and smile :-)) Aug 27 07:38:08 i did already :) Aug 27 07:38:38 good, finally one who gets it Aug 27 07:38:44 lol Aug 27 07:39:22 tekojo: problems? Aug 27 07:41:51 tekojo: morning :-) Aug 27 07:44:03 crashanddie: (double pipe and spaces) this was actually intetional, to separate it from the more serious parts of topic Aug 27 07:44:17 oh Aug 27 07:44:21 my bad then, apologies Aug 27 07:44:27 np, nm Aug 27 07:44:47 forgot about it spoiling the "topic auto tools" Aug 27 07:47:56 ~help topic Aug 27 07:53:49 DocScrutinizer: ? Aug 27 07:53:50 got cut off Aug 27 07:54:04 eew Aug 27 07:56:01 dd Aug 27 07:56:30 Everyone see that the OpenSolaris Governing Board resigned? Guess even they didnt have any confidence in Oracle's plans Aug 27 07:57:59 TermanaN900: their hand was kinda forced it looks like Aug 27 07:59:55 Stskeeps, maybe / probably. I've only read Oracle's plans and then the last meeting agenda. I dont blame them even if they werent forced to Aug 27 08:01:33 http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/ I read >>TV-Out with ... WLAN/UPnP<< - anybody tried this? (no device here that could do video streaming over WLAN, so no ay to test) Aug 27 08:02:00 DocScrutinizer: it should be possible to a dlna television i guess Aug 27 08:02:07 TermanaN900: opensolaris was dead fish anyway Aug 27 08:02:18 TermanaN900: opensolaris had been announced as dead nearly a month ago Aug 27 08:02:37 DocScrutinizer: I do have multiple servers, it shows them in media player. Aug 27 08:02:58 X-Fade: that's exactly opposite direction though Aug 27 08:03:23 Ah, otherwise you need rygel. Aug 27 08:03:27 but hey, so I should be able to see one N900 as server in other N900's mediaplayer? Aug 27 08:04:07 There is no upnp server included by default. Aug 27 08:04:14 mhm Aug 27 08:04:33 so this spec is a lie Aug 27 08:05:04 tv out with wlan/upnp -> tv is a upnp server Aug 27 08:05:06 Morning, all Aug 27 08:05:11 ooh Aug 27 08:05:32 Hi, any ideas what I should do, when I want to connect to my N800 with ssh by using bluetooth (Nokia E55 (Symbian) -> N800) Aug 27 08:06:16 install ssh server pkg on maemo Aug 27 08:06:35 I think I should have ssh server running already Aug 27 08:06:37 then, for the BT part, errr no idea Aug 27 08:06:51 Yeah, I were trying to google already for a while. It should be possible Aug 27 08:06:58 PAN maybe Aug 27 08:07:06 PAN? -> google Aug 27 08:07:21 Private Area Network? Aug 27 08:07:26 a BT profile Aug 27 08:07:30 ah Aug 27 08:07:41 Then there should be Ip address Aug 27 08:08:16 Actually I'm trying to use Qt for making a client for one server Aug 27 08:08:30 But the server is running on my N800 and I need to connect to it by Nokia Aug 27 08:08:40 http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles#PAN Aug 27 08:09:27 Ok, Thanks Aug 27 08:11:01 Jaffa: morning Aug 27 08:20:30 WOW! Aug 27 08:20:35 mussorgsky is pretty sweet! Aug 27 08:23:38 hmm. any way to force n900 to use headphone-mode? Aug 27 08:23:54 or should i just go yell at the store that my original headphone doesnt work anymore :-( Aug 27 08:24:35 secyrita1: Stare hard and evilly at it for 5 minutes, while you are waving a enormous magnet at it. Aug 27 08:24:53 ;-P Aug 27 08:24:59 be sure to enable camera, otherwise the device wont see you. Aug 27 08:25:48 thresh: Oh - I almost forgot that one - thanks Aug 27 08:26:18 Facebook Is Trying To Register The Word Face As A Trademark Aug 27 08:26:29 url Aug 27 08:27:32 Duckboot, thresh: already tried that :-( Aug 27 08:28:00 RST38h: Wuut? Aug 27 08:28:50 Google, no? Aug 27 08:31:44 RST38h: *facepalm* well well - so much for thinking. Aug 27 08:32:16 you cant use facepalm! Aug 27 08:32:52 "Palm" is already a registred trademark, isn't it? Aug 27 08:32:53 thresh: Shit - It contains the word face.... Aug 27 08:33:00 RST38h: well, after they sued some poor teacher website for the use of "book", I'm not really surprised Aug 27 08:33:04 RST38h: indeed. so it's ** from now on. Aug 27 08:33:04 So both face and palm are protected Aug 27 08:33:16 "Face" is still safe Aug 27 08:33:22 "Book" too BTW Aug 27 08:33:26 *f*cap*lm* Aug 27 08:33:33 *f*cep*lm* Aug 27 08:33:40 Duckboot: pretty sure that "Cap" is owned by CapGemini Aug 27 08:33:46 HAHAHA Aug 27 08:34:15 I have to either start speaking klingon, og just shut up. Aug 27 08:34:43 isn't klingon trademarked too? Aug 27 08:35:31 sure, but TtLINGHan HOL (or whatever klingon language is in klingon, I forget) isn't? :P Aug 27 08:35:48 Duckboot: 'uch lIj nuj Aug 27 08:36:04 I am sure the whole language is patented Aug 27 08:36:20 RST38h: Probably Aug 27 08:36:32 well, it's related material of Star Trek Aug 27 08:36:35 so yeah, Paramount owns it Aug 27 08:36:43 Then I'll have to come up with my own language, and trademark it. Aug 27 08:36:56 wowow, "On FedEx vehicle for delivery" Aug 27 08:36:57 yeah, good luck with the first pick up lines Aug 27 08:37:07 RST38h: what are you going to get? Aug 27 08:37:15 crashanddie: Don't need that, I'm married. Aug 27 08:37:40 Duckboot: well, marriage doesn't exclude chat up lines, does it? Aug 27 08:37:48 crash: a laptop Aug 27 08:37:50 Is flirting prohibited when in a serious relationship? Aug 27 08:37:53 RST38h: sweet Aug 27 08:37:55 crashanddie: Hehe Aug 27 08:38:00 this one has got broken LCD and it is too expensive to fix =( Aug 27 08:38:09 RST38h: ah yes, had the same issue Aug 27 08:38:18 RST38h: kinda dropped it in the stairs, big crack along the center line Aug 27 08:38:23 so I just made a debian server out of it Aug 27 08:38:40 ShadowJK: http://kasvi.org/index.php?kli Aug 27 08:48:46 *nod* mussorgsky is exactly what I've been looking for Aug 27 08:50:20 though a mediaplayer allowing to sort and `art` media files based on directory structure and filenames would be magnitudes nicer still Aug 27 09:00:03 Can anyone paste the Mem: line of top on a N900 running PR1.2 for me? Aug 27 09:03:00 X-Fade, Mem: 199776K used, 45572K free, 0K shrd, 1124K buff, 51900K cached Aug 27 09:03:25 psycho_oreos: What does total say? Aug 27 09:04:03 X-Fade, it won't say in there, but if you do cat /proc/meminfo it'll show Aug 27 09:04:12 Hmm ok, looking at a different top myself ;) Aug 27 09:04:34 actually free can show total as well Aug 27 09:04:53 psycho_oreos: What does total say for you? Aug 27 09:05:09 X-Fade, Total: 1031772 Aug 27 09:05:20 I'm sure that figure shouldn't change Aug 27 09:05:30 Hmm on MeeGo I have: MemTotal: 228580 kB Aug 27 09:06:22 meego on which? n9? Aug 27 09:06:30 No, N900. Aug 27 09:06:38 X-Fade: different utilities maybe Aug 27 09:06:59 ahh probably different setup, maybe more swap space Aug 27 09:07:01 cat /proc/meminfo |grep MemTotal Aug 27 09:07:01 MemTotal: 228580 kB Aug 27 09:07:26 MemTotal: 245348 kB Aug 27 09:07:30 Nokia-N900:~# cat /proc/meminfo |grep MemTotal Aug 27 09:07:30 MemTotal: 245300 kB Aug 27 09:07:30 No, that is supposed to be ram, right? Aug 27 09:07:50 Yeah, that is what I figured. We have less ram to play with in the MeeGo kernel. Aug 27 09:08:05 iirc that ram is shared Aug 27 09:08:10 with dsp ivs and powervr Aug 27 09:08:13 yeah that's definitely RAM, swap was 768MB Aug 27 09:08:47 or just dsp Aug 27 09:08:55 jacekowski: It is 16MB less, sounds suspicious ;) Aug 27 09:09:28 I was suspecting kernel is newer on meego therefore it may reserve more but then that should still show it Aug 27 09:09:49 check memory map Aug 27 09:09:57 it should be in dmesg Aug 27 09:10:04 is bootloader same? Aug 27 09:10:06 or different? Aug 27 09:10:27 [ 0.000000] Memory: 128MB 128MB = 256MB total Aug 27 09:10:27 [ 0.000000] Memory: 228440k/228440k available, 33704k reserved, 0K highmem Aug 27 09:10:46 looks OK Aug 27 09:10:55 So it reserves 32MB. Aug 27 09:11:11 can't see mine lol, my n900 has been on awhile so it won't appear in dmesg Aug 27 09:11:38 s/on/on\ for/ Aug 27 09:11:38 psycho_oreos meant: can't see mine lol, my n900 has been on\ for awhile so it won't appear in dmesg Aug 27 09:12:45 X-Fade: isn't meego run via kexec? Aug 27 09:13:24 No, direct boot. Aug 27 09:13:25 so odds might be the original kernel ram isn't available to the meego kernel? Aug 27 09:13:49 well, was just an idea Aug 27 09:15:43 Morning Aug 27 09:15:49 hi Khertan Aug 27 09:16:20 hehe ->[112673.533477] wl1251: ERROR Power save entry failed, giving up Aug 27 09:16:35 psycho_oreos: space isn't a special character in regexp Aug 27 09:17:12 crashanddie, depends of implementation Aug 27 09:17:45 Khertan: eh? Aug 27 09:18:03 yes Aug 27 09:18:09 4D Aug 27 09:18:10 :) Aug 27 09:18:11 not it ain't Aug 27 09:18:15 s/\s/ / Aug 27 09:18:24 damn you infobot Aug 27 09:19:59 ibot regex is most basic Aug 27 09:20:03 indeed Aug 27 09:20:32 crashanddie, it is to me when using it under vim for example but its just a habit that I've gotten used to Aug 27 09:20:32 basically it's no regex but a stringsearch Aug 27 09:20:47 vim/sed Aug 27 09:21:00 psycho_oreos: in sed it's most likely due to your shell, not regexp Aug 27 09:21:34 crashanddie, ahh ok, well then that'll be issue in bash department with escaping chars Aug 27 09:22:04 * Khertan should try to use regex a bit more ... i forgot everythings Aug 27 09:22:23 * crashanddie wrote a 600 line perl script earlier this week Aug 27 09:22:38 * psycho_oreos sucks at regexp but will learn how to deal with it when and if needed again Aug 27 09:22:52 then I noticed I forgot ; nearly everywhere (I wrote it in one go), so I wrote another perl script to modify the first perl script Aug 27 09:23:07 * Khertan write a pylint plugin for khteditor ... need a regexp test plugin now :) Aug 27 09:23:23 err, regex is *simple* Aug 27 09:23:30 just unreadable Aug 27 09:23:31 DocScrutinizer, hum ... Aug 27 09:23:35 yep Aug 27 09:23:52 it really is very simple logic, find this, group this, replace with this Aug 27 09:23:56 Khertan: sweet for the pylint plugins Aug 27 09:24:15 it's just that the way the grammar is written is extremely confusing and non-obvious for visual creatures like ourselves Aug 27 09:24:37 not to me :-P Aug 27 09:24:48 yep it s simply unreadable Aug 27 09:25:12 I started my career with such things like wordmaster on CPM2.2 Aug 27 09:25:35 or - even better - MEDIS on BS-M Aug 27 09:26:38 \(((?:[a-zA-Z_0-9]| |\*(?: ?,)?)\) <- not really the easiest way to read something Aug 27 09:26:45 (I just wrote that on the fly, errors possible) Aug 27 09:27:16 /<\/?\w+((\s+(\w|\w[\w-]*\w)(\s*=\s*(?:\".*?\"|'.*?'|[^'\">\s]+))?)+\s*|\s*)\/?>/i what does it do ? Aug 27 09:27:24 it s not readable Aug 27 09:27:32 if there isn't any comment in source Aug 27 09:27:36 Khertan: matches an opening and or closing tag of XML Aug 27 09:27:42 :) Aug 27 09:27:50 Khertan: and adds grouping for tag name, and properties+values Aug 27 09:27:51 what's xml? Aug 27 09:28:12 Khertan: do you know what mine matches? Aug 27 09:28:21 crashanddie, ok but admit it s not easy to read Aug 27 09:28:40 Khertan: I said that 5 minutes ago :P 11:21 < crashanddie> just unreadable Aug 27 09:28:41 crashanddie, lol meme pas Aug 27 09:28:51 yep Aug 27 09:28:53 Khertan: it matches function arguments for C or C++ Aug 27 09:29:17 oh ... i keep it for my c qsyntaxhilighter so :) Aug 27 09:29:35 you'll have to modify it Aug 27 09:29:38 it's not perfect Aug 27 09:29:42 ;( Aug 27 09:29:50 it's silly to ask "can you read this?" - I can't even read C code without the context given Aug 27 09:31:05 khertan: /\((?:((?:[a-zA-Z_0-9]| |\*?)(?: ?,))+\)/ <-- that should work Aug 27 09:31:06 it's like demanding machinecode should be written in flowcharts as the assembler is so hard to read Aug 27 09:31:30 only for function definitions, not function calls Aug 27 09:31:45 regex isn't a noation to read, but to efficiently *write* something Aug 27 09:31:50 indeed Aug 27 09:32:07 DocScrutinizer, yep ... like perl ... this is something to write, not to read or maintain Aug 27 09:32:14 I never try to "re-use" a regexp a couple of months after I've written it Aug 27 09:32:18 I just write it anew Aug 27 09:34:09 if you need a descriptive notation, use something like EBNF Aug 27 09:37:29 what does rx51 mean? Aug 27 09:37:51 device model number Aug 27 09:37:54 RX-51 Aug 27 09:38:18 * MohammadAG ponders what the unreleased RX-71 was all about Aug 27 09:38:34 and that's the model number of the production N900s ? Aug 27 09:38:40 for regex it's bets practice to supply a comment with maximum complexity string pattern example that should get matched by the regex - then it's actually simple to read regex Aug 27 09:39:03 MNZ: n900 is rx-51 Aug 27 09:39:33 MohammadAG: N9? Aug 27 09:39:58 DocScrutinizer, it was in the kernel from about a year ago afaik Aug 27 09:40:10 sure, why not Aug 27 09:40:46 tbh I'm puzzled to see 'N9' pictures where the device has a kbd Aug 27 09:41:36 but that's not uncommon for products to get such features like hw kbd added/removed during development Aug 27 09:41:54 Khertan: gets any parameter, including function calls: \((?:((?:[a-zA-Z_0-9\(\)\[\]]| |\*)+)(?: ?, ?)?)+\) Aug 27 09:42:12 what makes you think it wouldn't have kbd from the beginnning? Aug 27 09:42:12 mmmm, regexes Aug 27 09:42:35 MNZ: guess what I'm typing this on Aug 27 09:42:46 An N95? Aug 27 09:42:47 :P Aug 27 09:42:54 crashanddie: Hmm, why comment the parentheses inside the character class? Aug 27 09:43:13 dunno, just wrong habbit I guess? Aug 27 09:43:17 DocScrutinizer, a PDP11? Aug 27 09:43:23 Just started wondering. :P Better safe than sorry, though. Aug 27 09:43:24 MNZ: you are so wrong Aug 27 09:43:35 no no PDP11-51 Aug 27 09:43:36 crashanddie, what? what did I do? Aug 27 09:44:06 actually I gave away the PDP11 6 years ago Aug 27 09:44:42 MNZ: DocScrutinizer51 actually drums his thoughts on a djembe, and has an autochtone from papua new guinea who converts it at lightning speed into binary bits which are fed through a USB port to his computer Aug 27 09:45:44 because the autochtone has so many piercings, it was just a simple operation of shoving a A23 battery up his nose, and now everytime he taps his fingers on a cable, the computer can read it as a digital input Aug 27 09:46:26 hehehehe Aug 27 09:46:36 * crashanddie bows Aug 27 09:47:01 I thought real programmers used the butterfly effect to manipulate the atmosphere into focusing cosmic rays onto usb cables to send keyboard input? Aug 27 09:47:12 XKCD does it best. http://xkcd.com/378/ Aug 27 09:47:14 but again, you make a false assumption Aug 27 09:47:21 let me guess Aug 27 09:47:27 DocScrutinizer is not a real programmer Aug 27 09:47:45 you assume DocScrutinizer is a programmer, he is not. At best, he's an electronic programmer, and assembles systems using analogical electronics Aug 27 09:48:03 analog? Aug 27 09:48:22 I'm not a real programmer, as "real programmers don't use Pascal" Aug 27 09:48:40 * Khertan hate php Aug 27 09:48:48 <3 polypasca Aug 27 09:48:48 l Aug 27 09:48:53 Pascal Hyper-Processor ? Aug 27 09:48:56 anyway, I'm out Aug 27 09:49:04 lunch, and I'm getting a medical Aug 27 09:49:04 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:JOERG Aug 27 09:49:11 cheers crashanddie Aug 27 09:49:18 http://xkcd.com/353/ Aug 27 09:49:22 ^^ Aug 27 09:50:13 Khertan, a pythoneer? Aug 27 09:50:44 :) Aug 27 09:52:03 python -c "import antigravity" Aug 27 09:52:31 (try it if you don't know.) Aug 27 09:52:32 what really scares me is python -c "import sentience" Aug 27 09:52:46 didn't they remove that easter egg? Aug 27 09:52:58 *shrug* Works in 3.1 at least. Aug 27 09:53:08 seems like i'm alone with scheme here Aug 27 09:53:20 (3.1.2 to be more accurate) Aug 27 09:53:29 3.1.2 is not a function Aug 27 09:53:38 XD Aug 27 09:53:51 Took me a moment to figure out wtf. :P Aug 27 10:02:28 DocScrutinizer, I have heard the name openmoko a bunch of times before but never did check it out. That wikireader is pretty awesome! Aug 27 10:04:45 yeah, funny little thing Aug 27 10:05:14 and it was originally designed with a decent hw kbd, in a clamshell Aug 27 10:06:19 and the kbd matrix was decently designed, not like the N900 one :-P Aug 27 10:06:40 Darn, there isnt PAN support on my Nokia :P Aug 27 10:06:47 there is nothing wrong with n900 keyboard Aug 27 10:07:07 i don't really see case when somebody would want to press more than 2 keys at the same time Aug 27 10:07:14 plus I even had some footprint for a mini-USB connector on the PCB, so hackers could easily retrofit :-D Aug 27 10:08:25 errr, ctrl-shift-i or what was that now? to switch to portrait? and what was printscreen? Aug 27 10:09:05 right, I have determined without doubt #meego == tmo Aug 27 10:09:08 :P Aug 27 10:09:11 jacekowski: up+left to to move + ctrl to fire Aug 27 10:09:13 ;) Aug 27 10:09:17 1 Aug 27 10:10:04 F-keys on Fn-Shift- would be friggin nice Aug 27 10:10:38 ctrl-shift = alt - also a nice-to-have Aug 27 10:10:44 Jaffa: ping? Aug 27 10:11:50 jacekowski: the point is, there is ZERO *nada* niente reason to build the N900 kbd matrix in _this_ borked way Aug 27 10:12:03 DocScrutinizer: Can you drop the ops please? Aug 27 10:12:09 sorry Aug 27 10:12:52 Argh... It's starting to look, that easiest way to connect my Nokia E55 to N800 is program the damn thing by myself :P Aug 27 10:13:03 oO Aug 27 10:13:20 with not so stable and good way of course Aug 27 10:13:34 jacekowski, you like typing "|" on your n900? Aug 27 10:13:51 i do it with blue arrow key + sym + click on | Aug 27 10:14:06 PITA Aug 27 10:14:09 I have it remapped somewhere Aug 27 10:14:20 blue + up arrow key Aug 27 10:14:29 the arrow/sym buttons are malplaced Aug 27 10:14:31 really Aug 27 10:14:52 well, i don't write poems on a phone Aug 27 10:15:02 and i have "full" size bt keyboard Aug 27 10:15:09 on N900? surely not Aug 27 10:15:37 let's face it, N900 is short of one row on hw kbd Aug 27 10:16:11 yeah, n97 keyboard is so much better Aug 27 10:16:28 i don't need extra row for n900 kb Aug 27 10:16:32 my Milestone has 4 rows, but that results in very small keys... Aug 27 10:16:33 personal preferences Aug 27 10:16:34 and the way it opens is much better Aug 27 10:17:07 the N810 kbd is really way better in that respect Aug 27 10:17:16 well I just tried hitting blue arrow + sym both with my left thumb and it seems that I manage to get it right each time Aug 27 10:17:48 DocScrutinizer: ugh, not really. No key bump feedback and far too hard to press. Aug 27 10:18:17 X-Fade: I'm used to it, and I'm faster on N810 than on N900 Aug 27 10:18:37 I get 60WPM Aug 27 10:18:42 72 on laptop Aug 27 10:18:49 "while not all(x <= y for x, y in zip(deck, deck[1:])):" .. my head hurts. Aug 27 10:19:08 Im with X-Fade - i like the n900 one better Aug 27 10:19:09 yuck Aug 27 10:19:35 I vote N900. (Small Print: never tried the n810) Aug 27 10:19:41 wtf "while not all" ? Aug 27 10:19:45 I haven't use an N8x0, so I have to agree the N900's better Aug 27 10:19:57 used* Aug 27 10:20:11 * LjL scratches his head Aug 27 10:20:16 DocScrutinizer: all(x) returns True if all values in the Iterable x eval to true Aug 27 10:20:18 (*T) Aug 27 10:20:26 I like the keys much better on n900, but the layout better on n810 Aug 27 10:20:33 ayayayay Aug 27 10:20:57 Okay, that's probably the most compact way of doing it (I cannot think of how to do it otherwise), but.. Aug 27 10:20:57 * rmrfchik votes for n810 layout Aug 27 10:21:07 It's definitely not the most elegant solution. Aug 27 10:21:37 isn't python nice? Aug 27 10:21:55 hmm Aug 27 10:22:07 wait, is it even py? Aug 27 10:22:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJeHHyXXS9A <- is that a men's wristwatch? Aug 27 10:22:29 Larisa Riquelme - lanzamiento del Nokia C3 Aug 27 10:22:31 while not all(deck[i-1] <= deck[i] for i in range(1, len(deck))) would work Aug 27 10:22:50 It is Python. Aug 27 10:23:04 X-Fade: pong Aug 27 10:23:05 oh whoopsie, my train's leaving pretty soon o_O Aug 27 10:23:17 (of _course_ I keep track of time.) Aug 27 10:23:20 Shadikka: that looks way better Aug 27 10:25:08 gotta agree. Aug 27 10:25:22 * DocScrutinizer really hates these oo-oriented coding styles Aug 27 10:25:47 How i can add shortcut on menu on maemo with qt ... QAction with shortcut are ignore Aug 27 10:26:08 Jaffa: Would you agree I should just remove libgio from diablo extras*? Aug 27 10:26:22 prolly I'm too old to learn to like them Aug 27 10:26:51 DocScrutinizer: that was more like a functional coding style Aug 27 10:27:14 X-Fade: AIUI, yes. Aug 27 10:28:01 Shadikka: yep, you're right. oo wasn't the right attribute Aug 27 10:28:25 maybe cluttered is more to the point Aug 27 10:28:40 Jaffa: ok. exterminating... Aug 27 10:30:01 or let's call it the "Why use an array when we can use a dictionary of structures" coding style Aug 27 10:32:40 * DocScrutinizer gets headache on figuring what python does to memory usage by building up the lists to operate on, in above example Aug 27 10:35:05 I'm not actually sure Aug 27 10:35:09 DocScrutinizer, if something other than the bq chip takes over charging, the solid yellow light would go off right? Aug 27 10:35:21 It might just reference the same list from two different points. Aug 27 10:35:35 errm, yes, think so Aug 27 10:35:47 MohammadAG: Light is not driven by bq. Aug 27 10:35:55 X-Fade: it is Aug 27 10:35:57 :-) Aug 27 10:36:01 DocScrutinizer: It isn't. Aug 27 10:36:05 ...as well at least Aug 27 10:36:15 On meego, it charges without led. Aug 27 10:36:19 beg to disagree Aug 27 10:36:23 So something drives it. Aug 27 10:36:34 Or it needs to be configured to drive it at least. Aug 27 10:36:54 My guess is that bme just pulses the led. Aug 27 10:37:00 But anyway, memory usage in Python is usually not one of the first concerns. Aug 27 10:37:02 DocScrutinizer, when nothing is handling charging the light is handled by the bq Aug 27 10:37:05 the RGB-indicator LED is driven by LP5523 *and* by bq24150 (for red+green) Aug 27 10:37:06 http://www.hoovers.com/texas-instruments/--ID__11462--/freeuk-co-factsheet.xhtml Aug 27 10:37:07 As you can edit the pattern with led pattern editor. Aug 27 10:37:09 it's solid yellow Aug 27 10:37:11 Nokia accounts for about 20% of sales; Aug 27 10:37:21 20% stuff TI makes go to nokia Aug 27 10:37:23 X-Fade, you can't edit the solid yellow light Aug 27 10:37:29 My N900 pulses green while charging. Aug 27 10:37:32 X-Fade, that wouldn't explain emergency charging Aug 27 10:37:39 I'm on ubuntu atm, so no mce or bme Aug 27 10:38:13 BME isn't running when doing emergency charging and the led is yellow during it Aug 27 10:38:27 indeed Aug 27 10:38:30 X-Fade: that's nice, though usually it pulses yellow. Solid yellow however is usually from bq24150 on mere hardware level, without any system involved Aug 27 10:38:49 dd your /dev/mtd5 with /dev/zero, then connect a charger :P Aug 27 10:39:04 (don't... do that) Aug 27 10:39:05 I've just set the led to pulse turquoise when charging. Aug 27 10:39:18 bq24150 switching on red + green led via two transistors, during recovery charge Aug 27 10:40:42 MohammadAG: afaik bq24150 is switching off the pin which drives yellow, as soon as any software takes over and reconfigures for *real* charging. So solid yellow means it's emergency charge Aug 27 10:41:09 and when that turns off, the light goes off Aug 27 10:41:16 any other lights are controlled by other software Aug 27 10:41:17 You are sure there is a pin that drives yellow? :) Aug 27 10:41:25 on maemo, that would be mce Aug 27 10:41:41 MohammadAG: *maybe* you could configure bq24150 to still assert the yellow pin, while doing normal charge, but that's up to software then, which usually won't do that Aug 27 10:43:51 Since we are on about hardware, is anyone working on that digital filter support on the hardware codec in the n900? Aug 27 10:44:50 Now that's a binary operator for you. XAND. Aug 27 10:44:58 A and B, but not both. Aug 27 10:46:03 MNZ: I looked into it, but for sure didn't think about actually starting a project to support it. Just know it's there and it looks versatile and worth a second look Aug 27 10:49:20 X-Fade: even nolo seems to stop the bq24150 solid yellow, and use LP5523 for doing these white light ramp-ups and stuff. But on comletely empty battery, so system won't even level-one-boot to NOLO, bq24150 kicks in and signals emergency recover charge in progress via lighting up red+green on a hw-level Aug 27 10:49:49 DocScrutinizer, I have always wanted to do some linux driver work, but taking a look at this I think it's way too complex for a noob right? Aug 27 10:50:02 DocScrutinizer: But MohammadAG is running in ubuntu, so NOLO has touched it already. Aug 27 10:50:29 * MohammadAG calls child abuse Aug 27 10:50:31 he's working on some very special wizardry involving bq24150 Aug 27 10:50:47 nothing's handling the chip Aug 27 10:50:55 when I run a charging script, the light goes off Aug 27 10:51:04 so I'm assuming the script does _something_ right Aug 27 10:51:04 how are maemo apps translated usually? transifex? Aug 27 10:54:52 barisione: ive seen a few use transifex at least (and i use it ;D) Aug 27 10:55:07 I guess I should do the same then Aug 27 10:55:32 I'm used to gnome where a bunch of people just translate my software without me even noticing Aug 27 11:03:29 QtLinguist? Aug 27 11:04:58 barisione: I guess it depends on the rest of tools/libs you're using Aug 27 11:05:28 it's not a problem of tools I'm using (as a programmer), but how to get translators to translate my software Aug 27 11:05:56 for Qt based programs I'd guess using QtLinguist is the way to go Aug 27 11:06:33 for a gtk based program QtLinguist obviously is nonsense Aug 27 11:07:22 hm, there is this: http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/maemo-extras/ Aug 27 11:08:04 hmm, so..? Aug 27 11:11:20 http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/linguist-translators.html is also nice Aug 27 11:15:06 DocScrutinizer: I have a different problem. you are suggesting a technical way to translate stuff Aug 27 11:15:26 I'm looking for the place where translators get my strings and put their translations Aug 27 11:15:44 ahh, you need a management framework for all the tranlating groups? Aug 27 11:16:02 I see, no clue. ignore me Aug 27 11:21:30 is the scratchbox environment a faithful reproduction of the OS as it is on the phone? Aug 27 11:21:39 no Aug 27 11:21:44 expected Aug 27 11:22:29 well, at least is the kernel source that I can get on scratchbox the actual source used to build the maemo kernel? Aug 27 11:23:42 ermm, no Aug 27 11:24:23 so how do I build a module or rebuild the maemo kernel? is it available on some public repo? Aug 27 11:25:20 there have been reports the binaries shipped with images or via SSU are different to those you create from any available source. It's not completely clear yet if it's simply due to build environment differences or if there are actually different sourcecode versions used internally by Nokia Aug 27 11:25:31 MNZ: you need scratchbox and download the kernel-source package. Aug 27 11:28:08 ermm actually I did a apt-get soruce kernel. So what's the kernel-source package, alterego? Aug 27 11:30:32 the package description says it's the kernel source for rx-51. I guess this is as close as possible? Aug 27 11:34:43 close enough Aug 27 11:35:20 anyway it's probably a good idea to compile and install kernel and modules from same source, no matter what Aug 27 11:36:40 ask MohammadAG, he should know by now :-) Aug 27 11:37:39 rebuilding a module is easy Aug 27 11:37:45 in fact, I'm doing that right now Aug 27 11:38:02 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide#Compiling_External_Kernel_Modules Aug 27 11:38:13 how well do modules match the stock kernel? Aug 27 11:38:35 what about a module that's builtin? One would need to replace the kernel and I don't want to miss nokia-specific code Aug 27 11:39:52 MohammadAG, what's the difference between the kernel source from source of the 'kernel' package and the kernel source that the kernel-source package installs? Aug 27 11:40:19 if you modify a builtin module you'll have to build all modules as well. But you won't lose any 'nokia specifics' Aug 27 11:41:05 DocScrutinizer, unless the kernel sources we have are not the ones used to build the stock kernel Aug 27 11:41:31 trust me, it's the one Aug 27 11:41:32 :P Aug 27 11:41:32 yep, but as mentioned above, that's just rant Aug 27 11:42:13 (yet?) Aug 27 11:43:02 MNZ, use the source of the package "kernel" Aug 27 11:43:09 kernel-source is generated by that Aug 27 11:43:16 it's a copy of the kernel before anything is compiled Aug 27 11:43:24 MohammadAG, ah, thanks Aug 27 12:09:14 Hey there! Aug 27 12:09:25 Abou NITdroid.... Aug 27 12:09:33 How it is going? Aug 27 12:09:45 (NITdroid 2) Aug 27 12:10:30 #nitdroid Aug 27 12:10:41 thx Aug 27 12:23:33 can anybody help me plz? I bricked my n900. it exists flash mode in just a second, so I can't flash it :( Aug 27 12:24:01 >:/ Aug 27 12:24:29 take out battery, run flasher, connect USB, shove the battery back in Aug 27 12:24:52 I'll try that right now, thanks Aug 27 12:31:01 Suitable USB device not found, waiting. Aug 27 12:31:01 USB device found found at bus 002, device address 004. Aug 27 12:31:01 Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2104 Aug 27 12:31:01 NOLO version 1.4.14 Aug 27 12:31:01 Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_MR0 Aug 27 12:31:03 Booting device into flash mode. Aug 27 12:31:05 Suitable USB device not found, waiting. Aug 27 12:31:14 the usb icon appears for just a second Aug 27 12:31:36 this is the command I run Aug 27 12:31:38 sudo flasher-3.5 -F /media/Windows7/Users/ramoncio/Desktop/nokia\ n900/firmware/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R Aug 27 12:31:38 flasher v2.5.2 (Oct 21 2009) Aug 27 12:32:05 ?? flash Aug 27 12:32:12 ~flash Aug 27 12:32:13 from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Aug 27 12:34:26 ramoncio: you press the u key? Aug 27 12:36:34 how can i get qmake installed on n900? libqt4-dev qmake from sdk repos doesnt work Aug 27 12:37:02 pycg: You can't. Aug 27 12:37:26 As the -dev package is hacked so that there are i386 binaries inside for scratchbox support. Aug 27 12:39:49 ok Aug 27 12:40:09 sorry, my computer hanged Aug 27 12:40:24 so this is the correct flash command? Aug 27 12:40:27 sudo flasher-3.5 -F /media/Windows7/Users/ramoncio/Desktop/nokia\ n900/firmware/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin --flash-only=kernel -f -R Aug 27 12:40:49 ramoncio_: no Aug 27 12:41:00 what should I change? Aug 27 12:41:18 sorry, I lost the link Aug 27 12:41:24 The EMMC bin is your internal storage. Aug 27 12:41:33 oh Aug 27 12:41:36 I see Aug 27 12:41:42 You need the actual firmware. Aug 27 12:42:17 n900/firmware/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Aug 27 12:42:19 ???? Aug 27 12:42:36 sorry Aug 27 12:42:37 RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Aug 27 12:42:52 yes Aug 27 12:44:47 THANK YOU VERY MUCH Aug 27 12:44:56 that was the problem Aug 27 12:45:07 My n900 is back!! Aug 27 12:46:29 thank you very much, I0m out for dinner Aug 27 13:17:59 boo Aug 27 13:18:32 oob Aug 27 13:19:04 make an effort: ood Aug 27 13:19:26 moo Aug 27 13:19:36 oop Aug 27 13:19:52 boo Aug 27 13:19:53 qoo Aug 27 13:19:57 crap Aug 27 13:19:59 poo Aug 27 13:20:02 ooq Aug 27 13:20:35 so, first horizontal, then vertical, then horizontal again, then vertical mirroring. Aug 27 13:20:38 boo Aug 27 13:20:42 poo Aug 27 13:20:45 ooq Aug 27 13:20:48 ood Aug 27 13:20:50 boo Aug 27 13:21:21 /kick crashanddie Aug 27 13:23:53 * crashanddie wonders who the hell is behind Energy Star, and why have we been seeing them on our BIOS' for 20 years, even though every year someone else comes out with a better solution than their current crap. Aug 27 13:32:35 crashanddie: It's a government program. Aug 27 13:32:51 which government? Aug 27 13:33:10 The US. Aug 27 13:33:13 Does it matter? Aug 27 13:33:35 well, kinda Aug 27 13:33:46 considering it appears on nearly any European computer Aug 27 13:34:03 http://www.energystar.gov/ Aug 27 13:34:16 We probably conned them into giving out tax breaks, too. Aug 27 13:35:13 hmm, it's international, actually. Aug 27 13:35:49 I'm sure it is now. Aug 27 13:37:11 Anyway, the point is, Energy Star == tax dodge, and nothing to do with energy. Aug 27 13:37:51 heh Aug 27 13:37:54 "To qualify for an Energy Star logo, companies self-certify that their products comply with the standards. The Energy Department does not test products for compliance with Energy Star standards, and often there is no independent verification of what manufacturers report." Aug 27 13:38:05 Shadikka: hmm Aug 27 13:38:09 derf: not quite Aug 27 13:38:09 isn't that just a check for sortedness? Aug 27 13:38:42 "Devices carrying the Energy Star logo, such as computer products and peripherals, kitchen appliances, buildings and other products, generally use 20%–30% less energy than required by federal standards." Aug 27 13:38:50 sounds quite like 'CE' Aug 27 13:39:30 crashanddie: Who do you think wrote the standards? Aug 27 13:39:39 well, as always, the industry Aug 27 13:40:20 if list(deck) == list(sorted(deck)) Aug 27 13:40:31 heck, my name is probably in a couple of standards drafts Aug 27 13:40:39 and I was far from being unbiased Aug 27 13:40:51 as timeless can certainly certify :D Aug 27 13:40:58 you mean "crash and die" is in a lot of standards? Aug 27 13:40:59 D: Aug 27 13:41:10 well Aug 27 13:41:14 never checked for that Aug 27 13:41:18 but then again, that's not my name Aug 27 13:41:32 and "couple" is hardly "a lot" Aug 27 13:41:32 i hope those are not plane standards Aug 27 13:41:54 kerio: I was a security consultant, if it makes you feel any better Aug 27 13:42:03 much better Aug 27 13:42:22 which is one of the broadest terms I could think of, admittedly Aug 27 13:42:40 A security Consultant named Crash and Die - Now I feel _real_ secure Aug 27 13:42:50 lol Aug 27 13:43:28 oh, nitdroid has calls now? Aug 27 13:43:35 kerio: Almost Aug 27 13:43:58 cool Aug 27 13:44:09 kerio: they are working on audio-routing afaik Aug 27 13:44:19 haha what a pr0n clip during the video launch of the N8? Aug 27 13:44:33 * kerio is reading RSS feeds Aug 27 13:45:24 derf, quit being such a cynic. The government is only ever looking out for your best interests. *choke* Aug 27 13:46:56 GAN900: And Unicorns really do exists. Aug 27 13:47:13 s/exists/exist Aug 27 13:49:00 Duckboot: I'm thinking unicorns really did exist Aug 27 13:49:41 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1025793/The-horned-deer-solve-mystery-unicorn.html Aug 27 13:49:54 does mappero have any command line parameters? It would be convenient to be able to make a shortcut that would display the route from gps position to some fixed target like home, using the "Reittiopas" route planner interface Aug 27 13:53:15 reit die Opas? Aug 27 13:53:43 www.reittiopas.fi :) Aug 27 13:54:15 mappero already has a nice interface to it, it's just that I need to manually click a few times to get the route Aug 27 13:54:35 I'd like to have a couple of shortcuts like "Go home from here" Aug 27 13:56:51 * DocScrutinizer51 as well Aug 27 13:59:07 Somebody should write a "SpecAnalyzer" application to check the numbers on rumor specs and tell you whether they're complete bs. Aug 27 14:00:05 meh, maemo is incredibly lacking on such nice and actually simple integration: no way to click "take phot now" from contacts avatar selection. No way to store geo-coords to a contact, not to think about having a 'go there from here'. No copy of GPS coords to any other app in a simple manner Aug 27 14:00:10 aso aso Aug 27 14:03:18 It lacks polish everywhere Aug 27 14:03:35 It's no surprise, given that it's a miracle the damn thing shipped at all Aug 27 14:03:55 yep Aug 27 14:04:24 (which Nokia's marketting people like to point to like it's not embareassing) Aug 27 14:04:31 but meego will be so much better... Really! believe me! no kidding Aug 27 14:05:03 meego with rpm hell Aug 27 14:05:15 It will! We've got Intel and Novell n'shit involved! Aug 27 14:05:43 sigh, i've only had sanity with rpm so far Aug 27 14:05:44 :P Aug 27 14:06:00 yeah, so system integration and uniform UX can't fail Aug 27 14:06:15 considering how i usually rape OS'es, rpm hasn't been the least bit problematic Aug 27 14:06:32 yep same here Aug 27 14:06:52 I'm not concerned about rpms Aug 27 14:06:56 RPM vs deb is kinda like emacs vs vim Aug 27 14:07:05 I am concerned however over DocScrutinizer51 and Stskeeps raping OS'es Aug 27 14:07:07 :P Aug 27 14:07:11 it's more fun when people compare rpm and apt-get Aug 27 14:07:11 :P Aug 27 14:07:39 Can we not have a cat/dd war? Aug 27 14:07:42 That'd be fun. Aug 27 14:07:43 and there's no proper equivalent of apt-mirror Aug 27 14:08:37 I'm temped to define a set of aliases and see how long it takes til people even notice they use zypper instead of apt Aug 27 14:09:11 I present to you, something that should go down linux history :P http://i33.tinypic.com/drec68.jpg Aug 27 14:09:19 psycho_oreos: and no apt-cacher-ng :( Aug 27 14:09:57 MohammadAG, I've seen ~300 on an 8core i7 Aug 27 14:10:16 :p Aug 27 14:10:20 I've seen 8000 on a 486/75 Aug 27 14:10:27 xD Aug 27 14:10:32 It was however a wierd app Aug 27 14:10:54 I basically had several thousand sleep 5min going at once. Aug 27 14:11:04 lol Aug 27 14:11:18 of course the load number stops really being of any use/meaning after a certain threshold.... Aug 27 14:11:21 I was finding free domains in [a-z0-9].(com|net|org) Aug 27 14:11:25 lbt, yup and we've silenced the rpm fans :) Aug 27 14:11:45 I was running make -j 100 Aug 27 14:11:52 compiling the kernel Aug 27 14:12:04 This was on a 33k6 modem - which wasn't slow at the time, and already they were mostly gone up to length 4 Aug 27 14:12:16 I now have a 4 letter domain name. Aug 27 14:12:45 SpeedEvil: what domain? Aug 27 14:13:06 also, don't you mean [a-z0-9]+\.(com|net|org) ? Aug 27 14:13:30 yes Aug 27 14:13:39 though also I checked single letters. Aug 27 14:13:41 qkwv.com Aug 27 14:13:44 oh, so... Aug 27 14:13:45 hmm Aug 27 14:14:09 what's the "one or more"? Aug 27 14:14:12 "?"? Aug 27 14:14:19 I picked it through the advanced means of placing snipes for a fiver on all ebay domain name auctions under chars. Aug 27 14:14:20 yes Aug 27 14:14:40 I really wanted to express 1-4 - but I couldn't be bothered remembering the syntax Aug 27 14:14:45 did you invent a nice backronym for it? Aug 27 14:15:00 SpeedEvil, [a-z]{1,4} Aug 27 14:15:06 It's a duck surfing website. Aug 27 14:15:08 Quackwave. Aug 27 14:15:27 heh Aug 27 14:15:41 MNZ: [a-z0-9]{1,4} Aug 27 14:15:46 can domains start with a number? Aug 27 14:15:49 yes Aug 27 14:15:54 4chan.org Aug 27 14:15:57 oh right Aug 27 14:16:01 * kerio feels dumb Aug 27 14:16:02 1700.com Aug 27 14:16:05 who owns 0.com? Aug 27 14:16:31 oh, the IANA Aug 27 14:17:03 MohammadAG, btw, you'll probably build faster if you set the number of threads to something sane :D maybe double the number of cores? (guessing) Aug 27 14:17:22 ummm http://42.com wtf? Aug 27 14:17:47 MNZ, I wasn't building to get a kernel, was loading the PC to get more entropy Aug 27 14:17:52 which didn't exactly work Aug 27 14:18:03 Mouse wiggling FTW Aug 27 14:18:09 Anybody else feel old when people talk about 1GHz ARMs like they're so 2008? Aug 27 14:18:25 * Jaffa still has a 12MHz ARM250 in the loft :-( Aug 27 14:18:37 And a StrongARM netBook in his study Aug 27 14:18:41 bash on the keyboard like a monkey! Aug 27 14:19:29 I have a Z80 netbook. Aug 27 14:19:48 <_berto_> fuck ARM, this is going to be my next computer: http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/26/commodore-usa-announces-the-pc64-an-atom-powered-pc-in-a-replic/ Aug 27 14:20:07 <_berto_> (well, actually when they make one with a zx spectrum case :D) Aug 27 14:23:12 heyho Aug 27 14:28:13 hey, I installed openjdk from the wiki. java is spitting out an error. It can't find libjli.so Aug 27 14:28:50 The N9 specs thread is gold. Aug 27 14:29:52 nvm, it works Aug 27 14:30:11 A little question: I compiled my first programm with scratchbox and saw it @ Xephyr. now, I wanted to test the same @ FREMANTLE_ARMEL. So, I changed this with sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL and wanted to compile. I give you some Information: http://pastie.org/1120422 Aug 27 14:31:08 and I created an other gtk file with ARMEL, but it doesn't worked too. Aug 27 14:31:43 that's a simple user error Aug 27 14:32:01 where is my problem? Aug 27 14:32:22 what you have: gtk_helloworld.c ... what you tried to make which the file doesn't exist: gtk_helloworld-1.c Aug 27 14:32:44 autch Aug 27 14:34:21 why ARMEL doesn't work with Xephyr?? With X86 with no problems, but with ARMEL? Aug 27 14:34:32 O_o Aug 27 14:34:41 same commands Aug 27 14:34:56 disse: Because your CPU is x86? :) Aug 27 14:35:03 ah, k Aug 27 14:35:23 you could probably get that to work under qemu heh Aug 27 14:49:08 muhaha. vulnerability in ActiveX-Control "UfPBCtrl.dll" of Trend Micro Internet Security. Allows execution of code in local context Aug 27 14:49:21 heh Aug 27 14:49:32 Umm. Aug 27 14:49:37 Active-X is the vuln. Aug 27 14:49:39 isn't there something similar to Muphry's Law for security? Aug 27 14:49:43 Active-X is batshit insane. Aug 27 14:50:17 It relies not only on the signator being honest, and non-compromised, but also producing 100% vulnerability-free code. Aug 27 14:50:58 SpeedEvil: what could go wrong when using activex in a security tool? :D Aug 27 14:51:17 well Trend Micro is a antivir & firewall Aug 27 14:52:43 meh Aug 27 14:54:00 http://esupport.trendmicro.com/pages/Hot-Fix-UfPBCtrldll-is-vulnerable-to-remote-attackers.aspx Aug 27 14:54:16 * RST38h has a PDP11-compatible palmtop. Eat that, punks. Aug 27 14:54:18 .aspx !! lol Aug 27 14:54:44 * DocScrutinizer had a PDP11 Aug 27 14:56:29 Hi everyone Aug 27 14:56:49 not yet Aug 27 15:42:05 RST38h, why are you arguing with capacitive people? Aug 27 15:42:31 RST38h, it's like arguing with liberals, you can't appeal to the emotional basis of their position. :P Aug 27 15:42:34 resistive allows for a stylus Aug 27 15:42:37 'nuff said Aug 27 15:42:55 kerio, resistive doesn't make me want to throw my phone at the wall. Aug 27 15:42:56 GAN900: echo talk.maemo.org 0.0.0.0 >>/etc/hosts Aug 27 15:43:10 GAN900: I am not arguing, I am *hunting* =) Aug 27 15:43:13 GAN900: meh, capacitive touchscreens aren't bad Aug 27 15:43:22 my ipod touch works well Aug 27 15:44:30 DocScrutinizer, oh, but I'm having fun. Aug 27 15:44:35 RST38h, well then, carry on. Aug 27 15:45:26 * DocScrutinizer51 hands RST38h a javelin Aug 27 15:45:53 * MNZ hands RST38h a stylus Aug 27 15:46:45 More to the point though... Aug 27 15:46:49 Quesion: I have got two files (Image.c and Console.c) that qmake refuses to see. They are included as SOURCES in the .pro file, but the resulting Makefile does not mention them Aug 27 15:46:54 Any idea what may be wrong? Aug 27 15:47:04 (tried asking that on #meego, with nil result) Aug 27 15:47:16 RST38h: or want a M134? Aug 27 15:54:41 RST38h, no go here, either, apparently. Aug 27 16:00:51 * DocScrutinizer51 aims his MTHEL in tmo general direction Aug 27 16:04:05 GAN900: Yea, IRC has become useless for technical stuff lately, too =( Aug 27 16:05:11 ugh.. installing kubuntu on someone's pos emachine from like 2002 Aug 27 16:11:50 RST38h: that's subjective Aug 27 16:12:20 RST38h: I'm sure you checked for silly UC/LC issues Aug 27 16:12:37 of course Aug 27 16:13:20 rename? atime? Aug 27 16:13:30 even strace? Aug 27 16:15:44 or shoot with MTHEL Aug 27 16:16:42 the youtube vid is wort it - just for the music :-P Aug 27 16:20:58 hello, does anyone know if its possible to view the contents of an sms via t-mobile.com Aug 27 16:24:04 antlong_: this really isn't the best place to be asking that question .. Aug 27 16:24:09 Don't tmobile have a forum? Aug 27 16:30:15 touche Aug 27 16:30:31 t-mobile UK does Aug 27 16:30:50 But yes - that's an entirely provider dependant question. Aug 27 16:56:38 howdy guys, I'm wondering if there's a quickstart tutorial I might have missed somewhere about syncing things like music to a maemo powered device like the n900 Aug 27 16:56:58 I tried syncing somehow with mass storage mode, but that only gave me access to my SD card Aug 27 16:57:10 You plug n900 in Aug 27 16:57:23 select 'ass rage' mode, and then simply copy the files. Aug 27 16:57:26 err Aug 27 16:57:29 mass strorage Aug 27 16:57:52 and I'm only permitted to push stuff onto the SD card as opposed to the phone's builtin storage? Aug 27 16:58:56 no Aug 27 16:59:07 If you don't select mass storage, it's not mounted Aug 27 16:59:20 you're using windows? Aug 27 16:59:31 of course not, openSUSE :D Aug 27 16:59:57 There is also sertting up USB networking, or using wifi, and then rsync/scp/... Aug 27 17:00:09 I just rsync over wifi,as I'm lazy. Aug 27 17:00:47 heh, well I was hoping to take advantage of the podcasting stuff that banshee does Aug 27 17:02:27 _o/ Aug 27 17:02:35 Hi Aug 27 17:04:09 I have a stupid question; is there a switch or option for cp -command @ xterm to copy actual files instead of symlinks? I mean when copying ie. symlink folder, it just copies the symlink instead the real destination. Aug 27 17:04:26 rtyler: mount sshfs, if you want kinda generic access, without the pain of USB mass stoarge and cable plugging Aug 27 17:05:03 yes Aug 27 17:05:07 cp -R or -r Aug 27 17:05:11 or -d Aug 27 17:05:12 I forget Aug 27 17:05:24 rtyler: or use sftp://user@n900 in your favourite browser/filemanager Aug 27 17:05:29 and maybe busybox cp won't actually do that at all Aug 27 17:06:18 SpeedEvil, -r copies folder recursively. Aug 27 17:06:29 * rtyler nods at DocScrutinizer Aug 27 17:06:54 -L, --dereference always follow symbolic links in SOURCE Aug 27 17:07:07 seems what you want Aug 27 17:07:10 yeah Aug 27 17:07:22 DocScrutinizer, thanks. Will try it :) Aug 27 17:08:27 Stupid cp wont give any help of available whitches with --help Aug 27 17:08:27 :) Aug 27 17:08:51 nuke messybox, get decent tools Aug 27 17:09:38 apt-get install coreutils-gnu Aug 27 17:10:14 apt-get install bash Aug 27 17:10:18 DocScrutinizer, I cannot tell other users to nuke it. Aug 27 17:10:19 DocScrutinizer, need to get my tiny shell script to backup the real files instead of symlinks. Aug 27 17:10:23 hmm Aug 27 17:10:38 why isn't bash a color terminal anymore, did some modify it? Aug 27 17:10:43 echo PATH=/usr/bin/gnu:$PATH >>.bashrc Aug 27 17:10:44 cause it were last time i downloaded it Aug 27 17:11:20 FIQ: i think you need to either active that in the .bashrc or maybe write a couple of lines for it Aug 27 17:11:29 ok Aug 27 17:11:29 D-Iivil: busybox cp -L Aug 27 17:11:40 lol -L Aug 27 17:11:43 what a random switch Aug 27 17:11:52 johnsq, yeah, already got the answer :) Aug 27 17:11:53 should be -H at least Aug 27 17:12:00 hmm Aug 27 17:12:07 FIQ: works also Aug 27 17:12:11 or well, -h should work as cp isn't putting out human readable info) Aug 27 17:12:15 +( Aug 27 17:12:57 -h should show the help, and not use --help for help! Aug 27 17:13:05 FIQ may i ask which distribution you had the colored output in? Aug 27 17:13:15 ehm Aug 27 17:13:18 maemo Aug 27 17:13:38 Now that's just obnoxious. Aug 27 17:13:44 uhhh, on your n900? :o i didn't have that Aug 27 17:13:54 * GAN900 neglected to include beer in gluten-free considerations. Aug 27 17:14:29 mikki-kun, neihter did I on this download Aug 27 17:14:35 but last time i had it. D: Aug 27 17:14:59 and yea, coreutils-gnu >>>> messybox-things Aug 27 17:15:16 hm, i guess you can find somewhere on the interwebs some lines which make it output in color again :) Aug 27 17:15:29 yeah Aug 27 17:15:30 busybox ftl Aug 27 17:15:31 google ftw. :P Aug 27 17:16:30 "bash" isn't colour... if you mean why isn't ls showing colour coded results, try "ls --color" Aug 27 17:16:32 out what in color? Aug 27 17:16:59 or just look at .bashrc Aug 27 17:17:13 hm, does anybody have an idea what made my python behave like this? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60982 Aug 27 17:17:25 well, i used to have ls --color=always as alias before and i will add it again when i feel like charging my N900 Aug 27 17:17:57 uh Aug 27 17:18:01 ls as alias to that* Aug 27 17:18:07 FIQ: "ls --color=always -f" you mean Aug 27 17:18:09 ls probably does not support it Aug 27 17:18:15 that is - busybox ls Aug 27 17:18:20 is -f adding *, /, etc? Aug 27 17:18:24 uh Aug 27 17:18:32 SpeedEvil, meant gls. D: Aug 27 17:18:51 FIQ: ssh in there and then something like 'echo "alias ls='ls --color'" >> ~/.bash_rc' could already do the job Aug 27 17:18:55 alias ls='gls --color=always' if i don't fail (tired atm) Aug 27 17:19:02 -H or -L didn't work. Aug 27 17:19:25 hm Aug 27 17:19:34 if i recall correctly i had -F as well Aug 27 17:19:37 I still get cannot create symlink -error when trying to copy symlinked file to MyDocs Aug 27 17:19:42 i'm impressed how many people are participating in a topic of making ls show colours :P Aug 27 17:19:45 (add suffixes) Aug 27 17:19:59 D-Iivil, try some tar magic Aug 27 17:20:05 ieatlint: that's called teamwork ;) Aug 27 17:20:24 something other OS-communities don't have that much ^^ Aug 27 17:20:32 D-Iivil: mydocs is vfat Aug 27 17:20:37 It does not support symlinks. Aug 27 17:20:50 SpeedEvil, he wants to copy what the symlinks point to Aug 27 17:21:25 SpeedEvil, yes, I know, that's why I want to copy the_real_file instead of symlink. Aug 27 17:21:45 FIQ, -F didn't help :/ Aug 27 17:21:47 ah Aug 27 17:21:53 D-Iivil, oh Aug 27 17:22:00 D-Iivil, like I said, tar magic Aug 27 17:22:03 Is there any way to solve the error while running pacmd? Aug 27 17:22:05 er Aug 27 17:22:06 FIQ: you probably nered to install gnu tools. Aug 27 17:22:09 nvm Aug 27 17:22:11 D-Iivil: Aug 27 17:22:12 @ D-Iivil Aug 27 17:22:32 D-Iivil: the busybox versions are cut down and are only intended for noninteractiver use. Aug 27 17:22:39 This is fine, and they work well for that. Aug 27 17:22:40 D-Iivil, try "tar chf - yoursymlinks | tar x -C where/do/you/want/to/extract" Aug 27 17:22:55 SpeedEvil, i installed grep-gnu, coreutils-gnu, and some other gnu things Aug 27 17:22:56 tar is kinda over the top, heh Aug 27 17:22:57 MNZ, thx, will try it :) Aug 27 17:23:00 mikki-kun: ...or `nano .bashrc` Aug 27 17:23:06 at that point, just do "cat file > dest" Aug 27 17:23:16 permissions won't be kept, but on vfat, that doesn't matter Aug 27 17:23:17 DocScrutinizer: i'd rather use notepad than go with nano... Aug 27 17:23:19 (like nano for example) Aug 27 17:23:24 meh Aug 27 17:23:24 FIQ, I cannot force other users to use those. Must work with included tools. Aug 27 17:23:31 nano is nicer. :D Aug 27 17:23:40 i am a vim-user Aug 27 17:23:56 ah Aug 27 17:24:01 guess vim is fine too. :p Aug 27 17:24:13 ieatlint, he would have to loop through all files, perhaps use find or something. tar will do the job (if -h is supported in busybox tar) Aug 27 17:24:29 in the past i liked nano, but as i grew accustomed to vim i kinda cannot live without it Aug 27 17:25:01 MNZ, rsync would be the better choice overall... assuming it's not as crippled Aug 27 17:25:15 btw, is screen compiled for Maemo? Aug 27 17:25:20 ieatlint, I know, but it's not there on busybox Aug 27 17:25:43 ah, i guess i installed it then... double checked it was on my n900 before commenting Aug 27 17:25:44 apt-get install rsync Aug 27 17:26:02 somehow it just seems hilarious to do tar like that Aug 27 17:26:07 D-Iivil: doesn't support messybox cp the -L flag? Aug 27 17:26:08 timeless, ping Aug 27 17:26:13 MNZ, getting just "cannot change ownership" -errors with that tar -command Aug 27 17:26:14 it appeared that the Debian .deb (copy/paste ftw) worked just fine to install, but had broken packages and didn't existed the repo Aug 27 17:26:21 kerio, he's writing a shell script for end users, and doesn't want to force them to install any extra stuff Aug 27 17:26:36 s/the repo/in the maemo repo/ Aug 27 17:26:37 FIQ meant: it appeared that the Debian .deb (copy/paste ftw) worked just fine to install, but had broken packages and didn't existed in the maemo repo Aug 27 17:26:47 DocScrutinizer, -L gives "cannot create symlink" error. Aug 27 17:26:49 D-Iivil, those are warnings i'd bet, just ignore them.. the file is there Aug 27 17:26:55 oh, i got "cannot change ownership" too Aug 27 17:26:57 umm Aug 27 17:26:59 the change owner error i mean Aug 27 17:27:08 while unpacking a tar with different owners/permissions Aug 27 17:27:16 i ended up using rsync :3 Aug 27 17:27:21 rsync is epic Aug 27 17:27:28 that's because of +x problems in vfat (as vfat isn't supporting the +x chmod at all), kerio Aug 27 17:27:32 iirc Aug 27 17:27:37 probably Aug 27 17:27:48 ieatlint, yeah, you're right! Aug 27 17:28:00 but tar on busybox has no ignore-unix-stuff (or whatever the option is called) Aug 27 17:28:02 so... Aug 27 17:28:14 so the tar -magic works :) Aug 27 17:28:30 no, wait, the problem was that the tar had a read-only directory with files inside Aug 27 17:28:44 so it created the directory, happily set it to read-only, and then complained that it couldn't write to it Aug 27 17:28:54 heh Aug 27 17:30:36 running out of battery. Thanks for the help :) Aug 27 17:30:45 kerio, umm... I never thought of that.. so how do you solve that? Aug 27 17:31:02 yes, rsync is awesome... and even works for transferring files over ssh Aug 27 17:31:03 root; tar jxvf archive.tar.bz2 Aug 27 17:31:10 then i cursed a lot Aug 27 17:31:27 oh of course Aug 27 17:31:27 and then bzcat archive.tar.bz2 | tar xv Aug 27 17:31:28 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# ll bln Aug 27 17:31:29 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2010-08-27 19:28 bln -> .bashrc Aug 27 17:31:30 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# busybox cp -L bln blnx Aug 27 17:31:32 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# ll blnx Aug 27 17:31:33 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 420 2010-08-27 19:29 blnx Aug 27 17:31:48 hrmmm Aug 27 17:32:38 DocScrutinizer, maybe there were other factors complicating the thing.... a symlinked dir, or some permissions thign? Aug 27 17:32:57 maybe, dunno what you did Aug 27 17:34:51 I didn't do anything. And he logged off Aug 27 17:35:01 moving on Aug 27 17:37:42 meh Aug 27 17:41:23 kerio: (messy tar) LOL! but wait, extracting .bz2 shouldn't work at all with messytar, as it doesn't know how to invoke any decompressor, like usual tar does on finding proper file extension Aug 27 17:41:36 DocScrutinizer: read more scrollback Aug 27 17:41:48 DocScrutinizer: uh? tar doesn't detect format by extension Aug 27 17:41:52 also it supports gzip Aug 27 17:41:58 or at all for that matter Aug 27 17:42:00 luke-jr: uhuh? Aug 27 17:42:12 that's why you need to specify -z or -j for gzip or bzip2 Aug 27 17:42:36 heh Aug 27 17:42:44 tar zxvf is so standard Aug 27 17:42:57 tar xjvpf <-- my default Aug 27 17:43:05 p? Aug 27 17:43:08 luke-jr, I'm pretty sure it does some kind of detection (file, extension, or whatever) because I use tar xf for everything Aug 27 17:43:10 preserve permissions Aug 27 17:43:12 like +x :p Aug 27 17:43:15 * mgedmin votes for xvzf Aug 27 17:43:24 or maybe it means owners Aug 27 17:43:27 and only works for root Aug 27 17:43:29 shrug Aug 27 17:43:32 heh Aug 27 17:43:43 understanding unix: ur doin it wrong Aug 27 17:43:46 MNZ: pretty sure normal GNU Tar doesn't do that Aug 27 17:44:08 luke-jr, not only -p works only for root, it's on by default when you run tar as root Aug 27 17:44:13 FIQ: Regarding colors, add these alias to /etc/bash.bashrc and source it in /etc/profile http://pastebin.com/04iW34Nr Aug 27 17:44:19 so I'm not sure what's the point of ever specifying it explicitlhy Aug 27 17:44:23 maybe I'm missing something Aug 27 17:44:40 mgedmin: lol, maybe it wasn't at one point Aug 27 17:44:48 -p will also work in the case of groups won't it? Aug 27 17:45:27 luke-jr, tar --version : tar (GNU tar) 1.23 Aug 27 17:45:30 kill $(ps -eo size,pid | sort -n | tail -n 5 | cut -b 7-) # easily make more memory space! Aug 27 17:45:47 luke-jr, tar xf works just fine whether it's a tar.bz2 or tgz/tar.gz Aug 27 17:46:17 MNZ: so it does … weird Aug 27 17:47:14 --no-auto-compress do not use use archive suffix to determine the compression program Aug 27 17:55:16 mgedmin, you have seen many apps translated around the OSS sphere, for the gtk apps, which mechanism/service is commonly used? Aug 27 17:56:09 gettext Aug 27 17:58:02 thats the runtime translation tool though, do the translators have to have access to the source repositories to actually put the translations there? Aug 27 18:02:04 lcuk, this is a bit beyond my expertise Aug 27 18:02:21 usually yes, the .po files live in the upstream source repo Aug 27 18:02:26 translators often have commit privs Aug 27 18:03:03 there are various tools that I'm not familiar with (Transifex? Pootle? GNOME has something of its own, I believe) and maybe they automate some of those things Aug 27 18:03:24 sometimes translators attach .po files to bug reports saying "updated $language translation, please apply" Aug 27 18:04:47 aww, i just found out the N900 doesn't have a compass :( Aug 27 18:05:45 magnetometer? Aug 27 18:05:51 shame isn't it Aug 27 18:06:12 but it's got other awesomness :D Aug 27 18:06:35 yeah, magnetometer. i have a Motorola Milestone now, which has it, and it's handy for 1) navigation when you're on foot 2) augmented reality stuff Aug 27 18:07:04 yeah the N900 has some nice things, which is why i've been considering switching, but i considered a compass a relatively important one Aug 27 18:07:12 for some reason i was convinced it had it Aug 27 18:09:46 people with N900s don't walk that much anyway Aug 27 18:09:46 :P Aug 27 18:11:00 walking is for chumps Aug 27 18:11:41 real geeks build their own compass! ^^ Aug 27 18:12:24 Just live in a country where you can see the sun. Aug 27 18:12:46 derf: even without it, the polar star helps you find your way Aug 27 18:12:50 *finding Aug 27 18:13:28 and if all that doesn't help, just ask someone with a magnetometer Aug 27 18:19:46 gyroscopes would be even better anyway! Aug 27 18:21:03 need both Aug 27 18:21:17 both would be most excellent Aug 27 18:21:24 and a barometer! Aug 27 18:21:40 The augmented reality thing is pretty awesome. Makes me feel like I'm holding a pokedex Aug 27 18:22:27 http://www.st.com/stonline/products/families/evaluation_boards/steval-mki062v2.htm?wt.mc_id=enews_aug10_inemov2 Aug 27 18:22:33 well on my Milestone at least, augmented reality apps i've tried were kind of below expectations. the compass doesn't seem very accurate. Aug 27 18:24:14 The compass is quite accurate - if calibrated properly, and away from metal. Aug 27 18:24:24 If this is not true, it doesn't work so well Aug 27 18:24:42 SpeedEvil, ... someone needs to stick that thing into an RC plane or something Aug 27 18:26:28 MNZ: i keep thinking about this automated small dirigible idea... Aug 27 18:27:29 SpeedEvil: well maybe, in fact i know a person who's trying to make an improved (and open-source) version of Android's daemon for processing raw compass values... but, i don't know. on my phone, moving it in directions that shouldn't really affect the compass reading seem to affect the compass reading, and i can't seem to get it to calibrate in a way that makes sense. Aug 27 18:27:40 MNZ: I happen to know someone who actually is. Aug 27 18:28:05 LjL: do you have access to the raw accel and magno ouputs? Aug 27 18:29:00 SpeedEvil: magno i think so, accel not so sure. i'll know better after i'll be home with a linux machine where i can actually compile stuff for android Aug 27 18:29:56 SpeedEvil, mad props to him Aug 27 18:31:30 LjL: you know that you have to use the accel to correct the output of a compass? Aug 27 18:31:51 LjL: That is - the accelleration and the field orientation are two vectors. Aug 27 18:32:24 You have to use your model of the earths field, and the difference in these vectors pointing, to work out the absolute orientation of the device. Aug 27 18:32:52 moin Aug 27 18:39:11 unrelated: native zfs kernel module http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=zfs_linux_coming&num=1 will be available next month. Aug 27 18:39:42 woo Aug 27 18:40:38 i would really like to see a comparision, between xfs and zfs (both as native modules). Aug 27 18:42:47 don't know, ext4 and brtfs may be still unstable, and reiser4. mmh, i don't think i want to use a fs with the name from a murderer. (old joke: he killed his wife, because she became FAT) Aug 27 18:43:00 VFAT Aug 27 18:43:01 :P Aug 27 18:43:12 god, i just had a 90's debian flashback Aug 27 18:43:14 get out of my head Aug 27 18:43:15 :PP Aug 27 18:48:15 Stskeeps: What do you think about multiple sd card slots, in the next nokia devices? We could make some mighty sw raids. :-D Aug 27 18:48:29 tobis87: n800, go nuts with zfs Aug 27 18:49:19 tobis87: why Nokia? Aug 27 18:50:35 what's mafw? Aug 27 18:51:23 Stskeeps: As I said, it was unrelated, zfs would be an overkill, like xfs would be. Didn't they said that they had to ported linux to xfs. :-D Aug 27 18:52:05 This is clearly the CPU a new nokia/meego device should have: Aug 27 18:52:10 http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4206391/Mindspeed-26-core-basestation-DSP Aug 27 18:52:13 luke-jr: Or Intel, it was a joke anyway. Aug 27 18:52:27 tobis87: why Intel? Aug 27 18:52:53 why joke? Aug 27 18:53:19 SpeedEvil, 12W? isnt that a bit much? :) Aug 27 18:53:38 (for something like a smartphone i mean...) Aug 27 18:53:56 But feel the cores! Aug 27 18:54:29 :) Aug 27 18:56:20 The n900 has a few 'cores' already but they are specialized Aug 27 18:57:01 luke-jr: Will meego, not be supplied by Intel and Nokia? I mean of course other tablets could also have sw raid. But I don't think that you could easily compile the raid modules on android. Joke, because sw raid would be dead slow, I don't think omap's are fast enough. Aug 27 18:57:19 tobis87: shrug, I don't care about MeeGo Aug 27 18:57:33 sw raid isn't slow at all Aug 27 18:57:40 especially not RAID-0 Aug 27 18:57:54 that's just doing writes to alternative devices Aug 27 18:58:03 RAID-0 would be handy for a nice performance boost Aug 27 18:58:15 and you assume Android competes with MeeGo Aug 27 18:58:17 it doesn't Aug 27 18:58:20 luke-jr: Well raid-0 is not really raid, I did mean raid-5 Aug 27 18:58:29 MeeGo competes with Ubuntu and Gentoo Aug 27 18:58:39 RAID-5 requires 3 devices Aug 27 18:59:05 with the space of one? Aug 27 18:59:07 "real" RAID makes no sense for a handheld device IMO Aug 27 18:59:18 luke-jr: Sure it does Aug 27 18:59:33 luke-jr: I want important data to survive disk or chip failures. Aug 27 18:59:45 SpeedEvil: so send it away Aug 27 18:59:45 SpeedEvil: but not filesystem failures? Aug 27 18:59:50 or CPU failures? Aug 27 18:59:53 or RAM failures? Aug 27 19:00:20 or someone stealing your n900 Aug 27 19:00:23 RAID's only purpose is for low-end uptime improvement Aug 27 19:00:42 it's not useful for data survival Aug 27 19:00:53 I note that there have been 4? people in here reporting failures of rthe emmc Aug 27 19:01:27 also, I'll note that SSD by nature are in fact a kind of RAID Aug 27 19:01:37 MohammadAG51: sony is banning the PS3 Jailbreak users, and they've managed to get a court order to prevent the company sending any more devices Aug 27 19:01:45 does the n900 actually have ecc ram? i seen a ecc error recently in dmesg. Aug 27 19:02:06 SSD is not a kind of raid. Aug 27 19:02:14 Any more than an elephant is a kind of tomato. Aug 27 19:02:31 tobis87: ECC flash - yes - RAM no. Aug 27 19:02:32 SpeedEvil: it uses redundant NAND to handle failures Aug 27 19:02:50 luke-jr: Which is totally different from RAID Aug 27 19:02:55 luke-jr: and RAID has not a lot to do with redundancy Aug 27 19:03:00 The data is never duplicated. Aug 27 19:03:32 LOL Aug 27 19:03:43 The failure detection mechanism only kicks in due to a nearly incorrect, or incorrect read. Aug 27 19:03:57 At that point, it may step in in some way to manage block errors. Aug 27 19:04:01 hya..anyone know whats the minimum size of micro-sd needed to boot nitdroid? Aug 27 19:04:02 And copy the data around. Aug 27 19:04:03 RAID requires redundancy, not inherently duplication :p Aug 27 19:04:30 it's a /Redundant/ Array of Inexpensive Disks Aug 27 19:04:40 erhm... well, if you are running raid-0, is it still redundant? Aug 27 19:04:42 SSD arguably is an array of NAND Aug 27 19:04:50 crashanddie: that's why RAID-0 isn't really RAID Aug 27 19:05:03 ok, so we agree on that Aug 27 19:05:36 if i think about it, ssd's don't really need raid-5, since they will fail, after a time i will surely be dead. but raid-0 seems indead intersting. Aug 27 19:05:43 I suppose you could define NAND as expensive, thus never usable in RAID.. Aug 27 19:06:02 tobis87: uh, you don't plan to live long? Aug 27 19:06:16 hi Aug 27 19:06:30 sure, SSD will fail after the *device* dies, but not after you or I, hopefully :P Aug 27 19:06:40 ssd is not a disk so its not RAID ;) Aug 27 19:07:08 it's not a disc, but how is disk defined? O.o Aug 27 19:07:09 quick question anyone knows what blinking greed led light when charging n900 off usb mean Aug 27 19:07:23 Are you colour blind pauly_? Aug 27 19:07:32 blinking yellow is charging. Aug 27 19:07:40 pauly_, it means I've had enough, you can unplug me now Aug 27 19:07:40 Blinking blue is you have a message. Aug 27 19:07:46 "something with a round shape resembling a flat circular plate" Aug 27 19:07:47 solid green is charged Aug 27 19:07:56 Kegetys: that sounds like 'disc' Aug 27 19:09:00 in easy debian I press the blue arrow and this is mapped to enter how do i fix this Aug 27 19:09:39 does maemo 5 run dnsmasq or anything else locally to cache DNS queries? trying to find ways to improve my performance on AT&T's crap EDGE network :) Aug 27 19:09:40 afaik. "disc" is not an actual word but just an alternate to "disk" used for optical media Aug 27 19:09:48 yes Aug 27 19:10:02 so it *is* an actual word Aug 27 19:10:10 it's like disk but for optical media Aug 27 19:10:18 rtyler: It has its own internal DNS Aug 27 19:10:24 rtyler: I'm unsure if it caches Aug 27 19:10:36 err Aug 27 19:10:37 No reason not to install bind in principle. Aug 27 19:10:40 luke-jr: i thought that the ssd wear problem is only a theoretical problem. i mean the cpu of the n900 will be long dead before the ssd starts to wear. Aug 27 19:10:41 afaik 'disc' is the actual word Aug 27 19:10:46 and 'disk' some modern variant Aug 27 19:10:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_(mathematics) Aug 27 19:10:56 for non-visibly-circular drives Aug 27 19:11:27 tobis87: yes, the CPU in N900 is shorter-lived. Aug 27 19:11:29 guess they are just alternate spellings according to that Aug 27 19:11:35 tobis87: but I hope you aren't :P Aug 27 19:11:58 by short-lived, how short do you mean? Aug 27 19:12:20 mnzaki: the CPU is estimated to last under a year at full speed Aug 27 19:12:33 even with Gentoo, though, my N900 is usually idle Aug 27 19:13:07 full speed = 600 MHz, not overclocked Aug 27 19:13:17 im prim pretty sure its blinking green so idk Aug 27 19:13:20 overclocked obviously will rapidly degrade it Aug 27 19:14:46 it's all a scam so you'll buy the new, faster meego device! Aug 27 19:14:54 No I won't. Aug 27 19:15:06 I'm running my n900 for the next 4 years at least. Aug 27 19:15:06 neither will I Aug 27 19:15:06 me neither Aug 27 19:15:22 I'm going down with my n900. Aug 27 19:15:25 I'll buy whatever device fits my needs, regardless of what company makes it or what OS is ships Aug 27 19:15:57 yeah same here Aug 27 19:16:18 gee, i just like shiny toys Aug 27 19:16:21 and nothing really has since Sharp's Zaurus SL-C* line Aug 27 19:16:23 :| Aug 27 19:16:37 and also, yes raid is no susbstitute for backup Aug 27 19:16:40 so I'm very curious about their new IS01 Aug 27 19:16:54 nox-: otoh, backup is not a substitute for RAID Aug 27 19:16:55 :) Aug 27 19:17:02 luke-jr: No, surely not... Through I sometimes think about the future... How will they look at the devices we use today. Consider you go, 20 years back in time with a sdhc card with a size 16gb. What had they thought of it. Aug 27 19:17:09 RAID is meant to improve performance and uptime Aug 27 19:17:10 kerio: RAID is just a cheap alternative to true redundancy. Aug 27 19:17:18 kerio, yep Aug 27 19:17:22 Is it me, or have Extras* gone mad? Aug 27 19:17:26 even for uptime, RAID can't handle a power supply failure, for example Aug 27 19:17:53 I am getting report of severla updated packages (including numptyphysics) but trying to update them returns "file size mismatch" Aug 27 19:18:41 if you really need uptime guarantees, run two servers on a round-robin in Europe and USA Aug 27 19:20:05 * SpeedEvil segments luke-jr. Aug 27 19:21:26 luke-jr, lets see your 'uptime guarantee' hold up when nuclear war breaks out! HA! Aug 27 19:21:53 MNZ: if I need it to survive that, I could handle it… ;) Aug 27 19:22:33 in that case, you put them in a secured facility underwater, with some kind of fuses on the network connection to suppress the EMP Aug 27 19:22:45 and you have a minimum 3 servers :p Aug 27 19:23:28 of course all internet communication is now controlled by the govt and cut off so it doesn't really matter Aug 27 19:23:32 oh, and your users are dead Aug 27 19:24:08 http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/University-of-Michigan-nanoresonators/ Aug 27 19:24:17 Interesting - displays without polarisers Aug 27 19:27:22 MNZ: The satellites should still work, if they don't use a-sat's against communications. Depends, don't know how much MAD is considered today. Aug 27 19:28:32 "British Airways apologized to passengers after an emergency message warning they were about to crash into the sea was played by mistake." Aug 27 19:29:13 lol Aug 27 19:29:27 hai2u2 Aug 27 19:29:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction, and the internet was designed for an nuclear war. so it is decentralized. Aug 27 19:30:04 haha crashanddie Aug 27 19:30:35 i wonder if that really was a `mistake' tho... Aug 27 19:31:15 tobis87, I know it's decentralised, but when it comes down to the real deal, each country/alliance is going to grab their 'piece' and assume full control of it. Cut off communications with the enemy probably? Aug 27 19:35:47 MNZ: Don't know, it depends how long it would take to switch to a secondary system. If you have a first-strike from a nuclear-submarine, I doub they would have enough time. Sure Norad might have enough time to close their big fat door, but to shut down all systems and switch to backup. I don't think so. Since, they still have to communicate with all their units... Aug 27 19:36:41 MNZ: But a attack will surely damage a huge percent of the gateways. Aug 27 19:41:05 * satmd test fennec alpha Aug 27 19:43:24 MNZ: But we could also discuss if people from mars will land here in the next hundred years. Nuclear weapons are used to prevent war, not to use them. Except, the two bombs on japan, "they were test cases", I would be indeed good for the near east if the iran would have nuclear weapons, because this would balance power with israel again. But now enough on politics. Aug 27 19:44:14 'test cases' Aug 27 19:44:21 yes, sorry to harsh Aug 27 19:44:44 nuclear war is never justified. Aug 27 19:44:45 there were a lot better places from a stratetic point of view Aug 27 19:45:09 they really were used to test effectivity against people Aug 27 19:45:12 but, at that time no other country had nulear weapons. so only after russia became the second power, the weapons were not usable anymore. Aug 27 19:45:19 nuclear war would destroy civilization Aug 27 19:45:23 also one was enough Aug 27 19:45:36 Depends who's justifying it. Aug 27 19:45:56 true Aug 27 19:45:57 also, the iran-israel balance, IMHO, is not that simple.... a lot of people, me included, fear that Iran might actually use the bombs Aug 27 19:46:43 tobis87: there's only what... 9 root dns servers which would operate in case of a nuclear war? Aug 27 19:46:49 tobis87: the two used in Japan really were test cases. Aug 27 19:46:54 tobis87: the rest of the root dns servers are hosted in the US Aug 27 19:46:57 tobis87: the war was already over when they were dropped Aug 27 19:47:06 of course if they do it it'd be epicly stupid, because they simply are no match to israel/usa. Never mind the damages from their bomb(s) while iran would be literally wiped off the map Aug 27 19:47:18 crashanddie: what does it matter? all the sub-root DNS servers would be dead Aug 27 19:47:43 luke-jr: all of them? Would they? Aug 27 19:47:45 MNZ: I'd prefer Iran did use the bombs. Aug 27 19:47:53 luke-jr, ? Aug 27 19:48:14 MNZ: Israel deserves it at this point. Aug 27 19:48:27 actually, I might be exaggerating a little… Aug 27 19:48:28 let's not get into who deserves what Aug 27 19:48:37 arguably nobody deserves nukes Aug 27 19:48:58 crashanddie: all the ones relevant to the US. and as you said, Europe has its own Aug 27 19:49:09 luke-jr, imho israel deserves a bit of spanking, but not nukes. And like I said, iran would most probably seize to exist if they used even just one bomb Aug 27 19:49:21 cease* Aug 27 19:49:24 cease Aug 27 19:49:27 woops Aug 27 19:49:46 MNZ: this is where you blame the speech recognition, and tell us where to find it Aug 27 19:50:27 anyhow, Iran wouldn't cease just so long as they got the US at the same time Aug 27 19:50:30 the dominion deserves nukes Aug 27 19:50:36 and i gave it to them last night Aug 27 19:50:41 them and the zerrg Aug 27 19:50:50 sneak EMPs into the military-hosting cities Aug 27 19:51:03 wipe out all the US offenses Aug 27 19:51:40 I'd bet a good sum that the US will know Iran is about to strike several hours before they do Aug 27 19:51:53 EMPs have to be detonated in the upper atmosphere to be effective Aug 27 19:52:04 seriously, I don't mind the theoretical discussions about what would happen in case of nuclear wars, but "attacking" countries specifically is just going to end up in a troll war Aug 27 19:52:05 tripzero: they're line of sight. depends on the range you want. Aug 27 19:52:18 MNZ: It depends on your view. Israel is totaly mitarilised by the US. Try to get the point of view of the counties around israel. I don't live there, so I can only argue about the facts i read. Also the big wall in jerusalem... My view is that israel thinks they can do whatever they want. I mean stopping the ship under flag from turkey. This could have been seen as an act of war against turkey, and turkey is in the nato..... Aug 27 19:52:26 tripzero: just get up high in some big commercial building… Aug 27 19:52:31 nearby all the military complexes Aug 27 19:52:40 crashanddie: Unless it's a universally unpopular country. Aug 27 19:52:52 I don't think such a thing exists Aug 27 19:52:57 For example - nigeria. Do we really want all that spam? Aug 27 19:53:01 LOL Aug 27 19:53:21 SpeedEvil: so a few hundred idiots spamming the world is enough to deserve a nuke? Aug 27 19:53:28 lol Aug 27 19:53:33 nice application of "innocent until proven guilty" Aug 27 19:53:34 Nuke em I say Aug 27 19:53:37 crashanddie: people can get pretty bent out of shape over spam :0 Aug 27 19:54:01 nukes aren't as good as you might think. takes 2 of them to take out a hive cluster these days Aug 27 19:54:11 nukes are boring Aug 27 19:54:21 if you're going to take over, use EMPs and/or neutrons Aug 27 19:54:33 brb, collecting shipment of diamonds, that I'm recieving for a modest fee. Aug 27 19:54:41 lol Aug 27 19:55:08 SpeedEvil, aka, DiamondSmuggler Aug 27 19:55:10 neutron bombs are probably ideal Aug 27 19:55:21 just wipes out living beings, leaving all the infra intact Aug 27 19:55:32 blow one of them and start moving in… Aug 27 19:55:47 lots of jobs for cremators too Aug 27 19:56:14 and free iPhones Aug 27 19:56:23 what is the best way to parse argv Aug 27 19:56:39 babsher: Perl! Aug 27 19:56:41 * luke-jr runs Aug 27 19:56:51 well i am programing in c Aug 27 19:56:58 Picture this... a huge ass plane with ginormous amps blasting out a nigerian prince's email with a jamaican accent. Then a 'Eat neutrons suckers!' and drop the bombs Aug 27 19:57:45 babsher: for (int i = 0; i < argc; i++) { println("%s\n", argv[i]); } Aug 27 19:57:46 i was trying getopt Aug 27 19:57:56 but it is giving me errors Aug 27 20:00:17 babsher: yeah, cuz "it's giving me errors" is such a useful way of describing the error Aug 27 20:00:20 crashanddie: ++i Aug 27 20:00:30 luke-jr: doesn't matter Aug 27 20:00:46 crashanddie: doesn't matter in practice, but does in theory! Aug 27 20:00:52 luke-jr: erhm, no. Aug 27 20:00:55 babsher, getOpts Aug 27 20:01:07 if your compiler doesn't optimize, and your instruction set doesn't have a post-increment opcode Aug 27 20:01:11 it's the best way Aug 27 20:01:29 luke-jr: the incrementation condition gets evaluated on its own, so post or pre wouldn't matter Aug 27 20:01:55 crashanddie: you're assuming basic optimization Aug 27 20:02:01 * luke-jr was optimized out Aug 27 20:02:07 yeah, this isn't 1986 Aug 27 20:02:10 :p Aug 27 20:02:19 and you're not using assembly to write c Aug 27 20:02:41 and if the code ever gets put into C++, it could have practical problems too :P Aug 27 20:03:01 well, except that you're in complete control of 'i' there Aug 27 20:03:51 well from the few minuets i have spent with getopts i realized that it is garbage Aug 27 20:04:05 * luke-jr wonders why C++ doesn't just take "foo[bar++]" and rewrite it as "foo[bar]; ++bar;" Aug 27 20:04:53 isn't that exactly what it does? Aug 27 20:05:14 yes Aug 27 20:05:33 luke-jr: you're in a troll mood, go have a walk and beer outside, I'm buying Aug 27 20:05:48 Some processors have postincrementing addressing modes Aug 27 20:05:59 So the explicit form is slower Aug 27 20:06:28 i am sure if you add -O4 the gcc will figure it out Aug 27 20:08:01 crashanddie: you don't want me to have a beer. Aug 27 20:08:03 trust me. Aug 27 20:08:09 a coke then Aug 27 20:08:40 i still don't understand why the icc (intel c compiler) is so much faster than gcc. Aug 27 20:08:57 tobis87: because it only supports x86 crap Aug 27 20:09:41 GCC has a middle layer to support multiple instruction sets Aug 27 20:11:09 ok I'm confused. What does 'flashing' actually do? Aug 27 20:11:23 i only compiled game engines and aircrack with it, but with ipo and pgo it is really fast. you only have to check fp-model source and -fstack-security-check, -static-intel are also nice features. Aug 27 20:13:24 tobis87, its not faster in all cases Aug 27 20:13:58 from what i hear, it's really good at optimizing tight-loop stuff (like game engines) Aug 27 20:14:17 but if you were to compile something like firefox in icc, it'd probably be slower Aug 27 20:14:30 (if it would compile at all) Aug 27 20:17:19 have you tried it with auto-vectorizing, ipo and pgo? it reduces "recompute light" in sauerbraten in one map (nmp8) from 21s to 12,3s. Aug 27 20:18:31 tobis87, i've never used icc. I'm just relating what others have said on the matter. There's a reason why intel doesn't compile even their own distro using icc Aug 27 20:18:53 and the fact that it doesn't make everything faster is one of those reasons Aug 27 20:19:03 just, as an example... there is also an enhanced version of par2, which makes use of the threading building block libary... all cores used. Aug 27 20:19:48 tripzero: I don't say you should, I would only recommend it for very cpu intensive programs. Aug 27 20:20:01 yeah Aug 27 20:20:21 i think we are saying the same thing Aug 27 20:20:38 yes Aug 27 20:23:36 someone answer me before I brick my n900. I just built a kernel from the sources in scratchbox. Now theoretically I can just drop the package in and install it and everything will be fine and dandy right? or do I HAVE TO use the flasher tool? Aug 27 20:24:49 always keep a backup Aug 27 20:25:07 the flasher tool can backup my kernel? Aug 27 20:29:10 MNZ, it was more incase it all goes tits up and you need to reflash ;) Aug 27 20:38:56 tripzero, did you by chance get any further with libmeegotouch on maemo? Aug 27 20:39:31 lcuk, no :(. But i haven't tried in 2 weeks Aug 27 20:39:57 *nod* Aug 27 20:39:59 i wish public obs for maemo worked Aug 27 20:40:02 hows your app going? Aug 27 20:40:28 or is that the 2week stoppage too Aug 27 20:40:42 yes. it's the stoppage as well. It's pretty much done. Aug 27 20:40:52 it does what it's supposed to do. too bad i can't test it though :( Aug 27 20:41:02 it runs on my igep board with meego though :) Aug 27 20:41:11 i'm happy about that Aug 27 20:41:12 * lcuk ponders Aug 27 20:41:23 I need to get the dependency chart together for it lal Aug 27 20:41:25 all Aug 27 20:42:12 re Aug 27 20:42:25 hey Jaffa \o Aug 27 20:42:33 X-Fade: seen the req. to get rid of libgio from chinook as well? Aug 27 20:42:50 i started another app to remote control my car from my phone. but it's just a UI skeleton right now Aug 27 20:43:08 need to make the backend properly support stuff Aug 27 20:43:13 tripzero, thats how lots of apps start Aug 27 20:43:49 lcuk: lots of poorly designed apps* Aug 27 20:44:04 http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/attachments/mp3car-gatherings/59600d1281854847-afk-fest-2010-connected-car-demo-planning-thread-screenshot2.jpg Aug 27 20:44:06 apps that begin with UI, probably never see a library/console version Aug 27 20:44:43 luke-jr, this ui is designed to talk to a library Aug 27 20:45:00 which talks to a daemon over dbus Aug 27 20:45:00 the way all UIs should be :D Aug 27 20:45:07 * lcuk sees a nice front end liqcalc and a nicer backed osso-calculator-engine and ponders Aug 27 20:45:16 lol Aug 27 20:50:14 so 10 days, and my N900 is laggy again Aug 27 20:50:20 I have info to report! Aug 27 20:51:09 luke-jr: "works on *my* machine!" Aug 27 20:51:28 in 10 days, hildon-desktop has nearly doubled in memory usage Aug 27 20:51:36 it is now #3 most memory consuming process Aug 27 20:51:48 killall hildon-desktop! Aug 27 20:51:52 after hildon-status-menu (#2) and pulseaudio (#1) Aug 27 20:52:02 but those two were consistent in their location Aug 27 20:52:22 did you add a bunch of widgets to the desktop? Aug 27 20:52:24 new 4th place memory waster has come from even lower on the list: Aug 27 20:52:26 /usr/bin/mafw-dbus-wrapper mafw-gst-subtitles-renderer Aug 27 20:52:27 tripzero: no Aug 27 20:52:39 tripzero: in fact, I suspect my 2 year old deleted some for me Aug 27 20:53:10 so anyhow, mafw-gst-subtitles-renderer looks at first glance to be the biggest leak Aug 27 20:53:24 from under 20 MB memory to over 40 MB Aug 27 20:54:02 hildon-home went from 8 MB to 35 MB Aug 27 20:54:16 ew Aug 27 20:54:17 and yikes Aug 27 20:54:37 haha wait, what Aug 27 20:54:40 pulseaudio? Aug 27 20:54:56 osso-connectivity-ui-conndlgs went from under 2 MB to over 20 MB Aug 27 20:55:12 kerio: pulseaudio is consistently always the largest memory (ab)user Aug 27 20:55:27 consistently around 75 MB Aug 27 20:55:31 whether 1 hour or 10 days Aug 27 20:55:41 and how is that *not* a problem, given the limited amount of RAM? Aug 27 20:55:50 kerio: it's a consistent problem :P Aug 27 20:56:05 I set out to analyze the lag developed over a period of time Aug 27 20:56:32 trackerd has gone 10 MB -> 16 MB Aug 27 20:56:44 maybe it's me, but i only need shortcuts, i don't use any widgets and i also don't use multiple screen. through i don't have it on longer than two days. Aug 27 20:57:16 I disabled wlan search accidentally; battery life doubled Aug 27 20:57:37 hmm Aug 27 20:57:39 RSS!=memory Aug 27 20:57:44 how often do you drift between Aps? Aug 27 20:58:06 http://www.selenic.com/smem/ lcuk Aug 27 20:58:08 mgedmin, I guess the amount of change will depend on how often you drop out of range Aug 27 20:58:43 while I'm guessing it's due to my n900 being offline for the whole day Aug 27 20:58:48 that seems to be the worst of it Aug 27 20:58:54 (there's usually a wlan near me, so my n900 tends to be online) Aug 27 20:58:57 hardware uses battery, news at 11 Aug 27 20:59:27 kerio, stfu, its about which and when and how to mitigate it Aug 27 20:59:28 luke-jr, this is like VSZ, right? Aug 27 20:59:37 ShadowJK: size Aug 27 20:59:42 right Aug 27 20:59:45 how is the swap fragmentation caused anyway? does the kernel forget, to free swap if a program exits? Aug 27 20:59:51 think apollo 13 ish Aug 27 20:59:58 tobis87, sex Aug 27 21:00:01 um Aug 27 21:00:03 sec. Aug 27 21:00:48 http://enivax.net/jk/kswapd.png Aug 27 21:00:58 This is swap access pattern Aug 27 21:01:29 I recorded the position (y axis) in swap of each write Aug 27 21:02:03 It's sequential at first until it reaches the end of the swap area, and then becomes increasingly random thereafter Aug 27 21:02:14 too bad there's no way to specify "search when I have no other connection" Aug 27 21:02:28 or at least "don't search, but DO start gprs when you get 2G/3G" Aug 27 21:02:43 ShadowJK: yeah - a nice sequential would be nice with GC Aug 27 21:03:24 i found a workaround but it didn't fix the slowdown-after-long-uptime issue Aug 27 21:03:43 ShadowJK: So that if you come across a block with 16 free, and 4 used at the end, you want to swap out 8, you copy the 4, and do an atomic write of 12 Aug 27 21:03:53 why do you assume swap fragmentation is a problem? Aug 27 21:04:00 luke-jr: because it is Aug 27 21:04:08 prove it Aug 27 21:04:17 luke-jr: Write speed of nonaligned blocks is hideously bad on SD Aug 27 21:04:20 or emmc Aug 27 21:04:22 if it was the problem, workaround would fix it Aug 27 21:04:28 where blocks are 130K Aug 27 21:04:29 or so Aug 27 21:04:38 workaround? Aug 27 21:04:42 [16:01:33] i found a workaround but it didn't fix the slowdown-after-long-uptime issue Aug 27 21:04:56 Ah Aug 27 21:05:03 I'm not saying swap is causing slowdown. Aug 27 21:05:14 Just that swap is clearly broken, and should be fixed Aug 27 21:05:42 luke-jr, after running my workaround, available swap bandwidth clearly increased, but, the system was also demanding more swap bandwidth Aug 27 21:05:45 anyhow, I bet if you get rid of hildon-desktop, mafw-gst-subtitles-renderer, hildon-home, and osso-connectivity-ui-conndlgs, it will work better Aug 27 21:06:03 ShadowJK: yes, i have seen this earlier, nice graph.. But how is this caused? Is there no patch availilbe, so that the kernel rearrange the swap every day. Aug 27 21:06:19 no it never rearranges swap Aug 27 21:06:43 luke-jr, or identify the leaks - are you using the latest build? I recall madam fixing some leaks around Aug 27 21:07:10 luke-jr, anyway in my use the mafw-* stuff crashes pretty regulary, and it uses dsp. on N810 the memory management was totally broken on that side Aug 27 21:07:18 lcuk: I'm using what is in the repos Aug 27 21:07:27 so give latest a retest and see, and if it cures most, brilliant, if not if you can see where and give some pointers.. Aug 27 21:07:31 so im beginning to wonder if I lose some 10 megs of physical ram at each crash Aug 27 21:07:32 luke-jr, which repos Aug 27 21:07:43 standard pr1.2 binaries? Aug 27 21:07:45 lcuk: whatever the M5 repos are Aug 27 21:07:46 yeah Aug 27 21:07:49 ok Aug 27 21:07:58 cos the hildon components have had some work done later as you know Aug 27 21:08:03 in prep for a pr whatever Aug 27 21:08:09 because at the end the device was behaving pretty much like as if it had 64m physical ram Aug 27 21:08:21 the end being before I gave up and rebooted Aug 27 21:08:24 it would be really good if you could give them a try Aug 27 21:08:34 ask MohammadAG51 about repository with them Aug 27 21:09:19 i wonder how nokia is going to handle harmattan 3rd party packages Aug 27 21:09:47 seems like they just lost the community to upstream meego Aug 27 21:11:03 to arrange the memory in order to have large chunks of free memory in swap, instead of small chunks, which cause fragmentation... This remembers me somehow of ms-dos, the drivers also needed to be loadhighed in a special order, so they all fit in the upper memory block. Aug 27 21:11:55 tripzero, they'll get a thermonuclear device, drop it on third party devs, start requiring birth certificates, photo id, and a phd from ovi store contributors, break ovi store payments handling, and then proclaim the entire operation an outstanding success Aug 27 21:12:18 lol Aug 27 21:12:20 killed those 5 processes and system is back to lag-free Aug 27 21:12:44 tobis87: that makes no sense Aug 27 21:12:46 do you lose open apps if you kill hildon-desktop? Aug 27 21:12:53 ShadowJK: no Aug 27 21:13:02 oh awesome Aug 27 21:13:09 iirc on n810 you did Aug 27 21:13:14 those apps appear to have gracefully restarted Aug 27 21:13:19 other apps unaffected Aug 27 21:13:24 had to -9 hildon-home tho Aug 27 21:13:29 until I did that, it remained laggy Aug 27 21:13:35 so hildon-home at least is a major lag inducer :P Aug 27 21:20:29 so… when does cron.daily run on Maemo? :P Aug 27 21:21:36 lol? Aug 27 21:21:49 does cron run at all? Aug 27 21:22:57 luke-jr: how? i thought the swap is used sequential first, later programs use space, which is located after the space which is used by earlier programs... if the swap is nearly full and you close a program, the space is freed, but another programm might need more space than the program you have closed. So the memory the new program allocates is scattered all over the disk. Aug 27 21:23:49 ShadowJK: /etc/cron.daily/ exists… :/ Aug 27 21:24:17 It's not to program granularity Aug 27 21:24:44 It's whatever per swapout the swap algorithm thought it was right to swapout Aug 27 21:24:45 tobis87: if swap is ever used more than a day, that's a waste of memory Aug 27 21:25:01 a specific block of swap, I mean Aug 27 21:25:16 to be used, pages need to be loaded into RAM Aug 27 21:25:18 so if it stays in swap, you're not using it Aug 27 21:26:05 if something pushed to swap is later modified or freed completely, it ceases to exist on swap device Aug 27 21:26:21 or read Aug 27 21:26:44 well, I suppose Linux might retain the swap record to skip the "write to swap" later… Aug 27 21:27:29 actually, fragmentation per the usual meaning might be good for swap Aug 27 21:27:32 on SSD Aug 27 21:27:53 yes. Aug 27 21:28:08 write whatever 32 (4K) pages you want to get rid of first to the same block.. Aug 27 21:28:10 you don't care about intra-block fragmentation at all Aug 27 21:28:18 only inter-block Aug 27 21:28:39 Then you need some sort of GC algorithm too Aug 27 21:28:51 luke-jr, pages both in swap and ram are counted as swap cache :P Aug 27 21:29:00 it's in /proc/meminfo even Aug 27 21:34:53 ok, only some is swapped out, but it is sequential right? so, if i leave my device on all the time, linux thinks i can swap this out because it is not used since a certain amount of time. and this is randomly? so, you have the problem that the data next to each other does not belong together? i don't know, could someone tell me why the swap get's messed up after some days? Aug 27 21:36:03 It's not randomly Aug 27 21:36:19 something keeps track of how often pages are used Aug 27 21:36:30 the least used ones get thrown out Aug 27 21:37:46 Simply as once you've swapped out the first 768M - say - the first 132K eraseblock may have 8 free 4K pages. Aug 27 21:38:24 If you write these, the device internally has to do a read of 100K, for the initial data, and then a write of the whole 132k block Aug 27 21:38:36 So the speed is 1/4 of what it might otherwise be Aug 27 21:39:22 If there were only 4K free, then the speed is 1/32 of normal write speed Aug 27 21:39:30 * satmd has a wd drive that is 4k sectors, but tells the os it has 512byte sectors Aug 27 21:39:34 * satmd sighs Aug 27 21:39:50 Exactly the situation with SD Aug 27 21:39:53 'alignment' Aug 27 21:39:59 yeah Aug 27 21:40:09 But the real sectors in that case are 130K or so Aug 27 21:40:18 well, most filesystems by themselves use 4k boundaries Aug 27 21:40:20 but! Aug 27 21:40:35 that only works if those are at the same offset as the underlying blockdevice Aug 27 21:40:37 exact alignment can vary Aug 27 21:40:59 so, more fun example Aug 27 21:41:08 4k block you change first 2 byte Aug 27 21:41:22 worst case you'll have to redo 2 blocks of the blockdevice, each 4k Aug 27 21:41:56 yeah Aug 27 21:42:18 except on sd/mmc/emmc each is like 128-256k :) Aug 27 21:42:26 :) Aug 27 21:42:29 so 2 bytes can turn into half a meg :D Aug 27 21:42:33 wtf Aug 27 21:42:36 N900 laggy again Aug 27 21:43:33 lcuk, ping Aug 27 21:43:54 i want to be able to write a single bit Aug 27 21:44:01 no, HALF a bit Aug 27 21:44:05 :D Aug 27 21:44:12 tristate bits? Aug 27 21:44:18 kerio, MALF a bit? Aug 27 21:44:42 actually, writing half-bits doesn't cost anything on NAND… <.< Aug 27 21:44:53 so long as the half is always 0 Aug 27 21:45:01 MohammadAG51, Aug 27 21:45:01 satmd: how else are you going to represent FileNotFound? Aug 27 21:45:10 How do I use the deb package generated by building the kernel package on scratchbox?? The kernel package is just a deb that installs a .fiasco kernel in /boot, what then? Aug 27 21:45:25 kerio, you have been reading too much dailywtf Aug 27 21:45:26 lcuk, what was the repo question about? Aug 27 21:45:35 lcuk: i have Aug 27 21:45:35 it wasnt afaik Aug 27 21:45:39 is it unhealthy? Aug 27 21:45:43 extremely Aug 27 21:45:53 it's brillant Aug 27 21:45:54 mnzaki, er, you should get more than one package Aug 27 21:45:56 ok, the pages are not randomly swaped out, but after usage. my point is, if not all pages of a program are swapped out, you could have some pages belonging to the same program swapped out later and very far away from the page which also belongs to the program. And reading all pages for a program would be, very slow, because the pages are not after another. Aug 27 21:46:01 -modules and a -flasher package Aug 27 21:46:12 tobis87: no Aug 27 21:46:20 tobis87: random reads on flash are not particularly slow Aug 27 21:46:21 MohammadAG51, yeah I just unpacked the flasher package and the postinst doess the magic apparently Aug 27 21:46:44 the flasher package is only a postinst anyways :P Aug 27 21:47:34 SpeedEvil: all right, i really need to forget all of the harddrive stuff. Aug 27 21:48:32 one final thing, just how 'easy' is it to restore the stock kernel? I need to download the entire firmware image? Aug 27 21:48:59 no lol Aug 27 21:49:13 apt-get --reinstall install kernel kernel-modules kernel-flasher Aug 27 21:49:16 and you're done Aug 27 21:49:45 if you brick the device, just dl the kernel package from the repos on a pc and extract using dpkg-deb Aug 27 21:53:55 or emerge fremantle-sources etc Aug 27 21:54:00 tobis87, imagine app A and app B. A shows your smss. B is for camera. You're texting and B has all its pages 0-7 swapped out to swap pages 0-7 covering sd blocks 0-1. You open camera lens cover. B's pages 0-1 are immediately swapped in and modified by B. Swap now has 0-1 unused. two pages from A get swapped out to 8-9. when you switch back to A, two pages from B get swapped to 10-11, and A's two pages are brought back in again. Now the swap file has two h Aug 27 21:54:07 oles in it. fragmentation Aug 27 21:55:07 And before you ask, writing in the first hole immediately to fill it makes sd rewrite the entire block Aug 27 21:55:26 which is what we wanted to avoid in the first place Aug 27 22:04:14 ShadowJK: So using ramzswap is a good idea, because it only modifies as much as actually is used. Writing and reading to/from storage causes to much to read/write because of alignment. Aug 27 22:04:32 um. Aug 27 22:04:58 i mean swap on storage, emmc Aug 27 22:05:04 it doesn't change access patterns in any signigicant way afaik Aug 27 22:05:05 question: total number of applications in maeme extras-devel at this time (not counting dupes) how do I get that figure? Aug 27 22:06:31 ShadowJK: ?, I thought the alignment was the problem, if ramzswap only write to memory, there shouldn't be a alignment. Aug 27 22:07:06 well you still have swap Aug 27 22:07:27 unless you want to encounter "Operation disabled due to low memory" constantly Aug 27 22:10:26 Is it possible to know how many download has be done for an application in extra-devel ? Aug 27 22:10:27 if it is a problem of alignment in general, why is this only caused after some time? because the free space of the swap partiton lies between two physical sectors? Aug 27 22:10:32 Is it possible to know how many download has be done for an application in extra-devel ? Aug 27 22:11:44 tobis87, because physical sectors on sd are 128-256k and ram sector are 4k. Aug 27 22:12:14 DrIDK: sort of Aug 27 22:12:31 http://maemo.org/download-stats/index.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5&repo=extras Aug 27 22:13:04 SpeedEvil: awesome!! Aug 27 22:14:48 ShadowJK: Yes, but ramzswap with a size of 32mb, compresses 80mb of data... so i only need sometimes to write on storage. Ok, i have recenly read an article on these new 4k harddrives.... My problem is really that i'm still with my thoughts on regualar harddrives. Aug 27 22:14:52 http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmms/ also Aug 27 22:15:05 Look at the last two peaks Aug 27 22:15:26 they correlate with the latest version becoming available in testing, and then 10 days later (ish) extras Aug 27 22:16:20 4k harddrives are fine, the os deals with 4k chunks of data too, even if it would talk in 512 byte chunks of data over sata. Worsr case is the harddrive writing double amount of data Aug 27 22:16:49 Which incidentally implies that about 70% or so of people have extras-testing turned on. Aug 27 22:17:14 SpeedEvil: how many repos are there : extra , test, and ? Aug 27 22:17:20 Yes, you have to make sure the partition starts on sector, which is a multiplier of 8. I do understand it now, damn aligments... Can the kernel not be patched to modify ram sectors Aug 27 22:17:41 Also rthat maybe 100K peeps have fmms installed. Aug 27 22:17:50 DrIDK: testing, devel, extras Aug 27 22:18:03 tobis87, the hardware memory management unit deals with 4k pages Aug 27 22:18:03 tobis87: yes Aug 27 22:18:15 tobis87: But you really don't want 130k pages Aug 27 22:18:20 VAX had 512 byte pages I heard someone say :-) Aug 27 22:19:00 This is one of those setting your foot on fire to cure athletes foot problems. Aug 27 22:19:26 big pages only make sense for a few specialized things that do their own extensive memory management, like java Aug 27 22:19:27 Also - the above count counts all downloads - extras, testing, and devel Aug 27 22:19:52 No, not for the ram, but can't you, just say collect 130k pages first, and then sync them to disk. Aug 27 22:20:15 http://qdb.us/301221 Aug 27 22:20:18 on memory managment Aug 27 22:20:21 tobis87: yes. Aug 27 22:20:46 tobis87: But then the pages written get 'deleted' one by one, until you have a fragmented swap Aug 27 22:21:26 where deletion really means the app owning the page has accessed and modified it Aug 27 22:21:32 yes Aug 27 22:21:50 and the kernel therefore dropped the swapped page, so it's 'free' Aug 27 22:22:05 Nah, I avoid java as much as I can, even more after oracle got it. I even consider to not use brtfs in the future, because it was developed from oracle... Aug 27 22:22:07 this may not have actually been ever read from disk though Aug 27 22:22:28 ideally you'd predict the future so that the pages are written in the order in which the apps will in the future access and modify them, which also requires predicting exactly what the user is going to do, which buttons the user will press in which order, and so on :) Aug 27 22:22:46 You might as well not use ReiserFS due to the fact that the developer throws out perfectly good car-seats. Aug 27 22:23:33 ext4 is just missing the killer features Aug 27 22:24:03 I think ext4 developers place their wives above killer features. Aug 27 22:24:23 don't be so serious :) Aug 27 22:24:46 let's see ho btrfs turns out, they promise killing features Aug 27 22:24:50 Anyway - it hasn't been proved yet that ext3 devs haven't killed people. Aug 27 22:25:06 true Aug 27 22:25:28 BugBlue: it was a pun Aug 27 22:29:50 ShadowJK: So I assume, regarding swap, the best way how it could be done, was already done, Aug 27 22:30:10 well not really Aug 27 22:32:03 Gah! just racked up a $200 bill because MyNokia sent messages to germany... Aug 27 22:32:25 hmm Aug 27 22:32:33 * xnt14 calls t-mobile Aug 27 22:32:34 why would it want to do that? Aug 27 22:32:35 :P Aug 27 22:33:12 Stskeeps: apparently, according to my bill, my N900 sent 40 messages to germany... Aug 27 22:33:18 I googled the number Aug 27 22:33:20 * BugBlue suggests *any* textplan.. Aug 27 22:33:25 registered to nokia Aug 27 22:33:30 xnt14: does it start with 0049? Aug 27 22:33:30 xnt14: you're in US aren't you? Aug 27 22:33:35 Stskeeps: yeah Aug 27 22:33:46 5 dollars a text? Aug 27 22:33:48 I have an unlimited texting plan, but its domestic, not internatonal Aug 27 22:33:50 BugBlue: long distance Aug 27 22:33:59 BugBlue: hmm Aug 27 22:34:01 * xnt14 checks Aug 27 22:34:14 BugBlue: well i don't know of ext4, but reiser4 might had a KILLER feature... :-D i try to be not to serious, but if micro$oft would ever develop one of the best filesystems, would you use it? i mean look at what oracle now pulls of, after they got sun, i don't like android, put a patent war.... is always not nice. Aug 27 22:34:15 when I message outside of my plan (like international) I pay about 25 cents a text Aug 27 22:34:26 BugBlue: yeah Aug 27 22:34:33 tobis87: arguably NTFS is one of the best Aug 27 22:34:44 (eurocents, I don't know what the dollar right now does, but it can't be 5$) Aug 27 22:35:05 tobis87: no. I won't use ZFS either Aug 27 22:35:18 how many eurocents in a euro? Aug 27 22:35:18 luke-jr: 100 Aug 27 22:35:18 lame Aug 27 22:35:34 hmm Aug 27 22:35:35 luke-jr: which is a better version of hpfs... which was developed from ibm and microsoft together. Aug 27 22:35:39 it's a lot in seperate coins :) Aug 27 22:36:20 perhaps I should replace mynokia's daemon binary with a shell script... Aug 27 22:36:21 there should be 16 shilling to a dollar, and 16 cents to a shilling Aug 27 22:36:55 the last time I tried to pay in the UK there were 100 pence in a pound Aug 27 22:37:09 luke-jr: so a cent is actually a 256th? Aug 27 22:37:22 kerio: 1 bit of a byte Aug 27 22:37:24 yeah Aug 27 22:37:33 * BugBlue off Aug 27 22:37:38 trying to reclaim my bed Aug 27 22:38:19 fat32 Aug 27 22:38:20 xnt14: to my knowledge it should allow you to unsubscribe or opt-out in the US, but i might be wrong Aug 27 22:38:37 from the latin centum, -i, meaning a hundred Aug 27 22:38:39 xnt14: but running up 200mb worth of messages seem a bit wild and you should complain in a shop Aug 27 22:39:00 Stskeeps: I tried, it failed, it also sent me a message (from a US shortcode) saying that unsubscription failed Aug 27 22:39:28 xnt14: i'd go complain where you bought it then.. but then again, it does say on the box costs may be encountered Aug 27 22:39:40 i still hear ballmer being amousted of the therm k-locs used by ibm, for lines of code... He said microsoft could do more efficiant code, in less... blah, blah... blast from the past, serious i think os/2 couldn't have been as bad as windows got. Aug 27 22:40:04 Stskeeps: the N900? Aug 27 22:40:22 xnt14: right Aug 27 22:41:00 question is, whats the point in complaining to amazon? I like my N900... besides MyNokia... Aug 27 22:43:06 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10506 - why is this marked as unconfirmed? it looks like it has solid evidence behind it. Aug 27 22:43:07 Bug 10506: 'My nokia' unsubscribe attempt costs money. This is in breach of the UK regulations on premium rate texts. Aug 27 22:47:30 I'm unsure. Aug 27 22:51:18 woot ... i just accidentally found out the emergency call feature of the n900 when its locked Aug 27 22:57:42 how? Aug 27 22:58:25 :o emergency call? Aug 27 22:59:04 there's nothing new about that Aug 27 22:59:12 how do you access it? Aug 27 22:59:39 xnt14: because this is hairy issue. If they confirm the bug, they're basically accepting guilt. I know the council tried to do something, but it ended up being pretty moot as I recall Aug 27 22:59:49 when you have screen lock and you have to enter phone lock code you dial in the emergency phone numbers and there will be a call button Aug 27 22:59:58 oh Aug 27 23:00:17 psycho_oreos: which is standard behaviour on nearly any phone in the world Aug 27 23:00:42 psycho_oreos: take any old phone, and when you *boot* it, and it asks for the PIN, just type 112 or 911, and it will offer to dial emergency Aug 27 23:00:57 my potential meego summit brief: Aug 27 23:00:59 Maemo Community, Standing on the shoulders of giants. http://pastebin.com/h5cE5QjR Aug 27 23:01:14 can someone give me a quick review :$ Aug 27 23:01:21 crashanddie, I was merely pointing out what cehteh said was not of a big relevance Aug 27 23:01:40 psycho_oreos: and I was merely furthering that point Aug 27 23:01:54 where did these numbers actually came from? Aug 27 23:02:04 crashanddie, better yet is to direct that to cehteh rather than me :p Aug 27 23:02:16 well, you keep highlighting him, so no need ;) Aug 27 23:02:26 tobis87, which numbers? the 25k members is direct from stats gathered last year Aug 27 23:02:28 .. type 911 or 112 or 000 into the passcode dialog Aug 27 23:02:30 not until now Aug 27 23:02:38 prolly nothing new, but i dint know it Aug 27 23:02:41 and the nearly 6k is from directly checking extras-devel a little while ago Aug 27 23:03:00 a "Emergency Call" button appears then (better do not hit it) Aug 27 23:03:07 no, 112 or 911...? why did they choice these, easy to remember, or why Aug 27 23:03:11 lcuk: Is ecosystem really hyphenated? Aug 27 23:03:23 lcuk: is that the lcuk who started liqbase talking, or the marketing guy who was invited to Nokia HQ? Aug 27 23:03:41 SpeedEvil: it isn't Aug 27 23:03:46 lcuk: I would go "this entire ecosystem" rather than "the entire" Aug 27 23:03:48 crashanddie, this is the person who knows where meego stands now with reinventing the wheel. Aug 27 23:04:00 done Aug 27 23:04:01 Actually - "this ecosystem" Aug 27 23:04:15 "grand ecosystem" Aug 27 23:04:22 :) Aug 27 23:04:40 done Aug 27 23:04:46 It's also too wordy Aug 27 23:04:52 anyway my favorite: 0118 999 881 999 119 72 <- should have been in the n900 as an easteregg :-D Aug 27 23:04:59 SpeedEvil, its also very near the deadline and I have been ill Aug 27 23:05:05 'The entire eco-system has worked steadily to produce a rock solid platform capable of supporting every usecase possible with some of the most passionate developers on the planet' Aug 27 23:05:07 and its only an abstract Aug 27 23:05:13 Fair enough Aug 27 23:05:29 "capable of supporting every usecase possible"? Aug 27 23:05:36 That's quite detached from the truth, isn't it? Aug 27 23:05:41 tell me something maemo *cannot* do Aug 27 23:05:49 http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_IT_Crowd#Calamity_Jen_.5B1.2.5D Aug 27 23:05:52 Synch with exchange? Aug 27 23:05:55 haha Aug 27 23:06:10 i thought it could at some level Aug 27 23:06:19 MfE? Aug 27 23:06:22 potentially? Aug 27 23:06:25 doesn't work Aug 27 23:06:29 lcuk: Capable of supporting is somehwat meaningless if nobody actually knows the bits to poke to do it as they involve closed bits. Aug 27 23:06:30 well, nice idea, completely screwed though Aug 27 23:06:31 then it will be fixed Aug 27 23:06:41 Also. Aug 27 23:06:46 Stuff does not always get fixed. Aug 27 23:06:54 lcuk: the product's been out for a year nearly, it should've been fixed Aug 27 23:07:02 especially considering it was part of the marketing material Aug 27 23:07:15 well talk to different parties Aug 27 23:07:21 i am on about community stuff :P Aug 27 23:07:25 and no, synching contacts through MfE and email through IMAP isn't "working" Aug 27 23:07:27 There is a deadline. You have perhaps 2-3 years of ongoing development by different people on the n900. Aug 27 23:07:45 After that time, the people fall away, and it's left to bitrot. Aug 27 23:08:01 ok, somewhat bikeshedding :P should I submit this as is and then bicker? Aug 27 23:08:06 my speculation: the same will happen to MeeGo Aug 27 23:08:20 lcuk: one thing I'd change Aug 27 23:08:40 * lcuk is all up for change Aug 27 23:08:48 will need to write the full keynote anyway Aug 27 23:08:50 second line into the abstract: "creating everything from tiny scratch their own itch hacks" Aug 27 23:08:55 and will hope to get input on it :) Aug 27 23:09:04 into? Aug 27 23:09:07 that reads just so wrong Aug 27 23:09:18 ok so reword it, ill go make a brew Aug 27 23:11:56 Hi Aug 27 23:12:08 "... have been involved in the community at different stages creating a wealth of products and knowledge, ranging from little hacks that soothed an itch, to full-blown games, kernel modules and even quality assurance procedures" Aug 27 23:12:09 I have a mythfrontend and I would like to use my N900 to control it, as a remote Aug 27 23:12:25 Does anyone know of any prgorams that will allow me to do this? Aug 27 23:12:36 what the hell is a mythfrontend? Aug 27 23:13:04 ta crashanddie that does read better :) Aug 27 23:13:14 myth tv (the frontend; gui application) Aug 27 23:14:16 "Enter Meego, slick, shiny, cross platform and fully supported. A veritable Prince Charming offering to cure all the deficiencies." Aug 27 23:14:27 lcuk: http://pastebin.com/7au3snWT - thoughts Aug 27 23:14:30 That one made me smile, choke, almost, too. Aug 27 23:14:56 hello Aug 27 23:15:42 SpeedEvil, combined with the line change crashanddie just supplied I think that works well Aug 27 23:15:56 i directed by the wiki that i can get help here Aug 27 23:16:01 :) thanks Aug 27 23:16:15 SpeedEvil, it even earmarks the "but" quite well Aug 27 23:16:54 n900uk: sure, how can we help? Aug 27 23:17:09 lcuk: you're the butt with earmarks :D Aug 27 23:17:18 * SpeedEvil solves n900uks problem. Aug 27 23:17:24 * SpeedEvil puts down the anvil. Aug 27 23:17:36 i cannot delete file from my n900 any more. it is recognizn them as read only file Aug 27 23:18:12 it might be a perms issue Aug 27 23:18:31 ok crashanddie SpeedEvil this looks reasonable to submit for now http://pastebin.com/KzmicX7E Aug 27 23:18:35 ok, wifi -> macbookpro -> ethernet bridge -> vmware -> ubuntu -> tftp -> ethernet cable -> 5 year old laptop downloading debian; definitely not fast Aug 27 23:18:48 lcuk: if it's just a draft, yup Aug 27 23:19:00 crashanddie, its enough for a submission Aug 27 23:19:06 it has to be expanded into a full keynote Aug 27 23:19:11 by the time of the summit Aug 27 23:19:16 gfi Aug 27 23:19:18 Also - whart's the audience. Aug 27 23:19:21 and I have to get over my nerves Aug 27 23:19:25 Is hackers appropriate. Aug 27 23:19:34 SpeedEvil: yes Aug 27 23:19:38 lcuk: Imagine the audience completely naked. Aug 27 23:19:45 SpeedEvil: that so doesn't work Aug 27 23:19:47 lcuk: And covered in marmite. Aug 27 23:19:51 SpeedEvil, will discuss this later Aug 27 23:19:56 i might have more on stage with me Aug 27 23:19:59 :) Aug 27 23:20:04 SpeedEvil: last time I tried that, some hot chick gave me wood, I could not move from behind the projector Aug 27 23:20:12 :) Aug 27 23:20:18 i bet that made an uncomfortable shadow Aug 27 23:20:27 I was on the good side of the projector Aug 27 23:20:39 (not the shiny side) Aug 27 23:20:45 n900uk: which file, and where? Aug 27 23:21:00 n900: and trying to acess it how. Aug 27 23:21:21 SpeedEvil: you're gone further than we thought... you talk to your n900 now? Aug 27 23:21:30 over IRC? Aug 27 23:21:37 crashanddie: yes. Aug 27 23:21:46 crashanddie: Sometimes it's the easiest way to copy and paste Aug 27 23:21:58 so far in my download folder and my camera. have not tried the rest yet Aug 27 23:22:29 SpeedEvil: in nomine patris et fillii et spiritus sancti Aug 27 23:23:06 Can I run a java app on my N900? Aug 27 23:23:21 pyther: only through the debian chroot Aug 27 23:23:29 :( Aug 27 23:23:37 anyremote is missing from the repos Aug 27 23:24:04 lcuk: you sponsored for the meegocon? Aug 27 23:24:08 Is there any deep reason why java plugins couldn't be supported in the browser? Or is it just nobodies compiled it? Aug 27 23:24:25 n900uk: Open Xterm, cd MyDocs; ls -a; -> http://pastebin.com/ Aug 27 23:24:48 AFAIK no one's gotten Java working on the device at all. Aug 27 23:25:02 SpeedEvil: probably because nobody is interested in browser java plugins Aug 27 23:25:30 pyther: icedtea6 is available for maemo Aug 27 23:25:48 so yes, you can run java apps Aug 27 23:25:54 ahh ok, cool Aug 27 23:26:07 b-man`: how fast is it? Aug 27 23:26:16 Well, shows how much I know. Aug 27 23:26:24 derf: ditto Aug 27 23:26:40 though, icedtea? Aug 27 23:26:42 crashanddie: i've been able to run netbeans on my n900 ;) Aug 27 23:26:42 seriously? Aug 27 23:26:50 yup Aug 27 23:26:58 It could be worse. Aug 27 23:27:01 who comes up with these crap names? Aug 27 23:27:04 It could be blackdown. Aug 27 23:27:12 rofl Aug 27 23:27:42 next we'll have an east coast rapper called nosy puss Aug 27 23:27:57 tobis87: sorry, you should do ls -ao instead... Aug 27 23:28:05 submitted: http://conference2010.meego.com/session/maemo-community-standing-shoulders-giants Aug 27 23:28:16 there was already an application available called fapman LOL Aug 27 23:28:17 tobis87: people died on the stake for less than that Aug 27 23:28:17 argh, i did mean n900uk: Aug 27 23:28:31 *available for maemo Aug 27 23:29:08 b-man`: yeah, I just can't help myself and smile everytime I see that name Aug 27 23:29:23 crashanddie: well, people in general learn by failure... even evolution works that way. Aug 27 23:29:26 LOL Aug 27 23:29:30 b-man`: "Fapman, for uber geeks, and uber fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap" Aug 27 23:29:56 xDD Aug 27 23:30:15 I thought it was a porn media manager before reading the description Aug 27 23:30:48 he really should have thought of a better name xD Aug 27 23:32:06 anyway, off to bed Aug 27 23:32:08 'later all Aug 27 23:32:18 good night Aug 27 23:33:02 we also have MaeGirls, and i was interested, maybe some way to get in contact to the other side of the maemo community Aug 27 23:33:38 but, no it is only a monitor for women's cycle :-D Aug 27 23:34:04 yeah, other ideas for the name was "maenstrual" Aug 27 23:34:25 tobis87: done Aug 27 23:34:56 n900uk: pastebin.com link? Aug 27 23:35:07 yes Aug 27 23:35:28 where? Aug 27 23:36:16 http://pastebin.com/hEV5GQSE Aug 27 23:36:27 retweet this ppl: https://twitter.com/lcuk/status/22307306537 Aug 27 23:36:34 please :$ Aug 27 23:37:41 n900uk: sorry, you forgot a space in the command do "lsX-ao" where X stands for a space. Aug 27 23:39:04 okay Aug 27 23:39:45 lcuk: I will not Aug 27 23:40:36 why will you not :P Aug 27 23:40:48 because I'm not a twit Aug 27 23:40:54 I do not twitter Aug 27 23:41:07 no one 'twitters'. We tweet. Aug 27 23:41:19 :P Aug 27 23:41:21 ok mnz, will you tweet https://twitter.com/lcuk/status/22307306537 please Aug 27 23:41:22 s/t /t use/ Aug 27 23:41:22 crashanddie meant: I do not usetwitter Aug 27 23:41:29 crap Aug 27 23:42:00 lcuk, sure thing. Aug 27 23:43:18 tobis87:http://pastebin.com/R584zZt0 Aug 27 23:44:22 ~nuke messybox Aug 27 23:44:23 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at messybox ... B☢☢M! Aug 27 23:47:34 n900uk: the problem is, that i don't have my n900 right here, and the ls is diffrent from the normal ls on linux pc's... so this command is also not correct try "lsX-al" where X stands for a space, please... could be caused by a permission problem Aug 27 23:48:26 btw, how did you get a autorun.inf in there? Aug 27 23:49:22 me? Aug 27 23:49:22 ~seen khertan Aug 27 23:49:25 khertan is currently on #maemo (3h 19m 29s), last said: 'How i can add shortcut on menu on maemo with qt ... QAction with shortcut are ignore'. Aug 27 23:49:36 n900uk: yes Aug 27 23:50:41 i dont know much about that. am just a learner Aug 27 23:51:34 n900uk: yes, thats ok, could you please do ls -al in pastebin.com Aug 27 23:55:17 i opened the xterminal afresh and typed as advised: no such file or directory Aug 27 23:57:26 did you do: cd_MyDocs (after that) ls_-al (underlines are space)? Aug 27 23:58:16 space Aug 27 23:59:02 yes, since you typed first time without space, but yes underlines (_) should be space Aug 27 23:59:46 i mean you should type in " " instead of "_" Aug 28 00:00:04 ok Aug 28 00:00:32 so: ls al Aug 28 00:01:08 after you done "cd MyDocs", yes Aug 28 00:01:18 ok Aug 28 00:02:16 you can also use TAB, to complete the folder name, e. g. "cd M(press TAB)", should complete to "cd MyDocs" Aug 28 00:02:44 no, not ls al, ls -al Aug 28 00:03:03 don't forget the minus sign, it is for parameters Aug 28 00:05:04 http://pastebin.com/GAqRevv9 Aug 28 00:05:53 tobis87: posted Aug 28 00:08:14 n900uk, what file are you trying to delete? Aug 28 00:08:36 ok, shouldn't be a permission problem, Aug 28 00:09:34 at first a torrent file, would not delete the my pictures will not as well Aug 28 00:10:05 MNZ: (01:15:44) n900uk: i cannot delete file from my n900 any more. it is recognizn them as read only file Aug 28 00:11:02 thanks :) Aug 28 00:12:32 n900uk: open xterm; cd MyDocs/.images and do ls, then try to delete file with "rm filename" (you can use TAB to autocomplete filename e.g. f(TAB) foo) Aug 28 00:13:03 k Aug 28 00:13:15 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=800473#post800473 Aug 28 00:13:33 * lcuk crossposts :P Aug 28 00:16:57 n900uk: btw, you don't need to be root (sudo gainroot), how can't you do ls, while being root? :) Which kernel do you use? Aug 28 00:17:31 am doing it Aug 28 00:17:53 i always start with sudo gainroot Aug 28 00:17:58 why? Aug 28 00:18:11 is there some way to emulate 2nd and 3rd mouse buttons in Easy Debian? Aug 28 00:18:29 you could easily mess up things with it! Aug 28 00:19:08 i taught it was admin pass Aug 28 00:19:36 sudo make mel a sandwich Aug 28 00:19:52 oops I mean me Aug 28 00:20:00 so should av typed cd/ MyDocs first Aug 28 00:20:08 tobis87: uh, doing 'sudo whatever' is doing things as root, it offers no protection (unless someone specifically configued it thusly) Aug 28 00:20:25 okay Aug 28 00:20:27 even then, it'd likely not protect from every possible stupidity. Aug 28 00:20:41 yes, but you know it is not windows vista,7; on /home/user or ~ you don't need to be root. might be a problem, that you have created a file as root, and you can't delete it as an user Aug 28 00:21:05 no Im just pointing out how one little mistyped thing with su can fu up. Aug 28 00:21:47 mortini: i know, (02:15:05) tobis87: n900uk: btw, you DON'T need to be root Aug 28 00:22:18 i have the files listed now, can i still proceed with the command line Aug 28 00:22:53 i don't know which files you want to delete... to delete files, you do "rm filename" Aug 28 00:23:41 just about to ''rm filename" Aug 28 00:23:42 or if folder, rm -r foldername Aug 28 00:23:53 don't tell him Aug 28 00:24:16 he only wants to remove a picture and a torrent Aug 28 00:24:51 filename is the name of the picture or torrent Aug 28 00:25:39 with rm -r you can easily mess up more stuff, you only want to delete a picture, not _all_ pictures Aug 28 00:26:21 tobis87 if we shouldn@ Aug 28 00:26:51 t tell him that he shouldn't be using cl Aug 28 00:26:59 i Aug 28 00:27:11 damn n900 keyboard Aug 28 00:27:17 maybe, today, you are only a n900 user, if you have flashed it once, Aug 28 00:27:27 actually, the file is not in the list. the holding folder is camera and not image Aug 28 00:28:10 but camera is not in your list on http://pastebin.com/GAqRevv9 Aug 28 00:28:23 DCIM Aug 28 00:28:34 n900uk, look in the folder called DCIM Aug 28 00:28:36 yes, forgot that... sorry Aug 28 00:28:44 yes. i noticed it dint come up Aug 28 00:29:01 okay Aug 28 00:31:42 man FCam rocks, I wish I had as much control for my digital camera as I do on my n900's. Aug 28 00:34:00 it's too bad I like using xfig but I need 2nd and 3rd mouse buttons. Aug 28 00:34:49 so it is cd MyDocs/ .DCIM Aug 28 00:35:17 no, MyDocs/DCIM Aug 28 00:35:25 DCIM is not hidden Aug 28 00:35:32 okay Aug 28 00:35:49 hidden folder/files on linux start with . Aug 28 00:38:50 cd MyDocs/DCIM after that do ls | (-> up( the key under ctrl) and strg) and choise | ) grep -i filename Aug 28 00:40:05 so the the command is ls | grep -i filename Aug 28 00:40:56 sorry, not strg... strg is the same as ctrl in german Aug 28 00:41:41 the result jumped back to images Aug 28 00:42:02 sorry? Aug 28 00:42:37 if you a certaint abou the filename, you could also just do rm filename Aug 28 00:43:05 cd MyDocs/DCIMn/bin/sh: cd: can't cd to MyDocs/DCIMn/home/user/MyDocs/.images # ls Aug 28 00:44:12 MyDocs/DCIMn/home/user/MyDocs/.images ??? you did just do cd MyDocs/DCIM , right? Aug 28 00:44:53 yes. I taught DCIM should be memory card/slot Aug 28 00:45:17 then ls Aug 28 00:45:50 NO, memory card is on /media/mmc ; /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM or Aug 28 00:46:19 ls /media/mmc1/DCIM Aug 28 00:46:20 no memory card. just internal memory Aug 28 00:46:22 /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM or ~/MyDocs/DCIM is in internal Aug 28 00:46:38 ok Aug 28 00:48:27 n900uk: I don't want to be offensive, but for which criteria did you buyed the n900? Aug 28 00:48:53 i typed jus cd MyDocs/DCIM then ls Aug 28 00:49:27 and, is there threre the picture you can't delete? Aug 28 00:50:16 criteria in what sense. dint quite catch that. or do u mean what pourpose? Aug 28 00:50:27 n900uk: Aug 28 00:51:11 n900uk: You wanted a new phone, why did you choose the n900? Do, you know that the n900 wasn't designed as a phone? Aug 28 00:51:13 no the picture is not there. Aug 28 00:51:22 yes Aug 28 00:51:49 n900uk, Aug 28 00:51:53 if oyu have usb plugged in Aug 28 00:51:56 Do you use linux on your pc? Aug 28 00:51:59 I taught i could learn a thing or two Aug 28 00:52:01 and have connected it to computer to view files Aug 28 00:52:04 then its not visible Aug 28 00:52:13 from shell Aug 28 00:52:19 so disconnect usb lead to be sure Aug 28 00:52:22 then retry Aug 28 00:52:47 * lcuk has tripped over that a few times Aug 28 00:53:03 never connected to my pc Aug 28 00:53:10 bah Aug 28 00:53:20 do the pictures come up in the picture viewer? Aug 28 00:53:35 I don't mind learning, but there is man on linux... you could have checked all this what i have typed for you... man ls Aug 28 00:53:48 man rm Aug 28 00:53:57 tobis87, man isnt included on device Aug 28 00:54:03 and everyone started somewhere Aug 28 00:54:09 but on you pc, it is... Aug 28 00:54:17 not if you have windows its not Aug 28 00:55:05 ok Aug 28 00:55:06 so, n900uk do the pictures correctly show up in the UI picture viewer? Aug 28 00:55:17 lcuk: I have a high tolerance, but at some point it is too much... Sorry, but I really need to get some sleep- Aug 28 00:55:47 okay. you been very helpful. Aug 28 00:56:03 n900uk, if all you want to do is delete a picture, step away from the console Aug 28 00:56:11 view the picture in the picture viewer app Aug 28 00:56:14 and select delete.. Aug 28 00:56:27 or am I missing some context here.. Aug 28 00:56:41 i do like, to help people... but serious all this ls stuff, it's not that hard if you get used to it :) Aug 28 00:56:42 i think it failed due to read-only iirc, came in the middle of this Aug 28 00:57:26 tobis87, then learn how to help people, sometimes diving into the console isn't the correct method. Aug 28 00:57:31 b Aug 28 00:57:32 (02:08:14) (tobis87) MNZ: (01:15:44) n900uk: i cannot delete file from my n900 any more. it is recognizn them as read only file Aug 28 00:57:44 -b Aug 28 00:57:47 ta Aug 28 00:57:59 picture will not delete. but i dont understand why it will not list the camera folder Aug 28 00:58:18 n900uk, ok, and you cannot make new images with the camer either? Aug 28 00:58:27 lcuk, tobis87 was only trying to help. n900uk was complaining that the ui doesn't let him delete some files Aug 28 00:58:36 * lcuk nods Aug 28 00:58:46 lcuk: well, if hilfdonfm fails, do you recommend a flash? at least people learn from using the shell Aug 28 00:59:32 tobis87, finding out why it fails would be better, but sometimes jumping into console leads to what you found Aug 28 00:59:51 * lcuk always thinks of his mum using device Aug 28 00:59:57 yes camera is not taking pictures again Aug 28 00:59:58 and asking same question Aug 28 01:00:14 he only wants to remove some files, maybe MyDocs vfat just need fsck.vfat Aug 28 01:00:37 well going to the console and deleting as root won't change that will it ? :P Aug 28 01:01:39 i did not said him, he should be root, he knew gainroot already... and rm -r was told him by someone else Aug 28 01:01:40 has n900uk already pasted "mount" output Aug 28 01:01:46 that doesnt need root :P Aug 28 01:01:58 eep! Aug 28 01:02:04 -r for deleting a single photo Aug 28 01:02:12 * lcuk gulps Aug 28 01:03:13 lcuk: (02:15:05) tobis87: n900uk: btw, you don't need to be root (sudo gainroot), how can't you do ls, while being root? :) Which kernel do you u Aug 28 01:03:36 lcuk: (02:21:50) yigal: or if folder, rm -r foldername Aug 28 01:03:53 * lcuk hides Aug 28 01:04:43 don't use the console if you don't know what you are doing. Aug 28 01:05:16 sudo rm -rf /, lmao Aug 28 01:05:23 learning, the shell is a good thing... but nobody should learn dangour command, if you don't know what they do Aug 28 01:05:51 dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/whatever Aug 28 01:06:34 is this irrivasible Aug 28 01:07:00 no Aug 28 01:07:10 my thought is has he tried creating a file in ~/MyDocs perhaps the partition is in ro mode Aug 28 01:07:45 why would it be Aug 28 01:07:56 so i cannot use the camer again and also delete files Aug 28 01:07:57 pastebin the output of the "mount" command Aug 28 01:08:01 and we would know Aug 28 01:08:25 www.pastebin.com there Aug 28 01:08:26 then we could perhaps find a way round it for you :) Aug 28 01:09:12 we'll find a way now or some later dat Aug 28 01:09:20 do as i write,,, mount > pastebin.com; umount /home/user/MyDocs: fsck.vfat -a /dev/mmcblk0p1 Aug 28 01:09:26 oops s/dat/day Aug 28 01:09:34 okay Aug 28 01:09:40 no Aug 28 01:09:43 tobis87, no Aug 28 01:10:04 would redirecting to a site actually work Aug 28 01:10:11 thats not the point Aug 28 01:10:14 as root, but be carefull. no mistyping... and please do spaces, as i don.... wait; lcuk: why not? Aug 28 01:10:15 its whats done after Aug 28 01:10:16 yeah Aug 28 01:10:19 but still Aug 28 01:10:30 tobis87, you do not go in blind Aug 28 01:10:50 if the FS is readonly theres a reason for it, sure afterwards maybe fixing it is inevitable Aug 28 01:10:57 but ffs, this is someones data Aug 28 01:10:59 goodnight guys..anyone using the snes emulator by any chance? Aug 28 01:11:29 not atm, but i have it installed and have used it Aug 28 01:11:58 n900uk, just run the mount command and copy/paste the text it shows into a new pastebin.com window Aug 28 01:12:19 ok Aug 28 01:12:41 FIQ|n900: did it run well...it reboots my system every few minutes Aug 28 01:12:54 and it happens in different roms so its not the rom Aug 28 01:12:56 note that the shortcut ctrl+c (if that's what you use) will not work in terminal (special meaning), you'll have to do it from meu Aug 28 01:13:14 zeltak, m64p does that for me if i turn it on sometimes Aug 28 01:13:19 but not drnoksnes Aug 28 01:13:45 menu* Aug 28 01:13:47 yigal, have you got fcam working? I just installed it and rebooted and all I get is a grey screen and default cam not working :/ Aug 28 01:14:07 MNZ, default kernel. Aug 28 01:14:11 FIQ|n900: what is m6ep? Aug 28 01:14:23 lcuk, it doesn't work on the default kernel? Aug 28 01:14:24 i wonder why its happening..is there a log somwhere? Aug 28 01:14:25 mupen64plus Aug 28 01:14:26 :p Aug 28 01:14:32 MNZ, it does work there Aug 28 01:14:42 I believe if you are on a different kernel it doesn't run Aug 28 01:14:45 I have the default kernel (so far) Aug 28 01:14:50 ok Aug 28 01:14:53 then, idk Aug 28 01:15:11 zeltak, dunno sorry Aug 28 01:15:27 kk thx FIQ|n900 Aug 28 01:15:49 someone should test my fcam kernel Aug 28 01:16:08 theoretically, it has all the fcam modifications in the main kernel Aug 28 01:17:02 I like the fact that my first N900 did come with PR1.0.1, then i managed to broke it, and they sent a new one, with PR1.0 Aug 28 01:17:20 a lots of things looked strange. :P Aug 28 01:17:29 MNZ ya it's working nicely, but I don't know why it's wrking as opposed to not working? I'm using power kernel also Aug 28 01:17:32 lol Aug 28 01:17:51 yigal: does the normal Camera app work when you have fcam modules loaded? Aug 28 01:18:00 or do you need to disable fcam and reboot? Aug 28 01:18:11 did they break compatibility with the default kernel or what? Aug 28 01:18:16 application menu was just buttons, strange bash icon, no imei check with *#06#, no support for my sim card Aug 28 01:18:32 s/bash/xterm/ Aug 28 01:18:32 FIQ|n900 meant: application menu was just buttons, strange xterm icon, no imei check with *#06#, no support for my sim card Aug 28 01:18:43 btw anyonw knoqa if there a c64 emulator? Aug 28 01:18:53 zeltak: pretty sure Aug 28 01:19:05 yuo can search the app db by typing Aug 28 01:19:16 [ 1106.085601] adp1653 2-0030: failed writing fault register Aug 28 01:19:16 [ 1106.086822] video4linux video0: can't power up slaves Aug 28 01:19:18 * FIQ|n900 does an apt-cache search commodore Aug 28 01:19:18 'emulator' should do the trick Aug 28 01:19:25 kk thx Aug 28 01:19:35 FIQ|n900: aptitude search emulator Aug 28 01:20:02 aptitude? Aug 28 01:20:05 heard of it Aug 28 01:20:07 never used Aug 28 01:20:11 it's what Debian uses Aug 28 01:20:16 merge of apt-*? Aug 28 01:20:23 luke-jr I don't think so Aug 28 01:20:25 FIQ|n900: and fixes a bunch of bugs Aug 28 01:20:30 ah Aug 28 01:20:33 nice Aug 28 01:20:39 FIQ|n900, it's another frontend to dpkg Aug 28 01:20:44 FIQ|n900: specifically, if you remove something, it automatically removes dependencies it pulled in Aug 28 01:20:46 if they're not needed Aug 28 01:20:49 but it still uses dpkg and such things as bavkend. no? Aug 28 01:20:52 whereas apt would clutter the OS Aug 28 01:20:52 backend* Aug 28 01:20:54 yeah Aug 28 01:21:06 ok Aug 28 01:21:14 technically, there's a ncurses TUI builtin too, but I never use that Aug 28 01:21:25 well, i will take a look at it. :P Aug 28 01:21:31 be careful though ☺ Aug 28 01:21:36 uh Aug 28 01:21:42 some people have had problems crop up when they switch from apt to aptitude Aug 28 01:21:44 apt-get autoremove removes dependencies Aug 28 01:21:53 specifically, aptitude thought they didn't want packages, so it removed them :P Aug 28 01:21:56 aptitude isn't really stable on the N900 Aug 28 01:22:00 MohammadAG: must be something new Aug 28 01:22:01 yeah, runs that sometimes Aug 28 01:22:07 aptitude is stable enough w/o the TUI Aug 28 01:22:18 luke-jr, no, very old. Aug 28 01:22:25 segfautls for me after I reflashed Aug 28 01:22:30 and I'm the damn maintainer Aug 28 01:22:31 all that is just front ends to the dpkg system Aug 28 01:22:39 MohammadAG: if you use it the same way as apt? Aug 28 01:22:49 then I'd use apt Aug 28 01:23:03 I only packaged it as a test Aug 28 01:23:11 easier to use aptitude, no need to guess which apt-* command :p Aug 28 01:23:21 ubuntu is considering removing aptitude from base install, terrible Aug 28 01:23:37 or has done so haven't kept up Aug 28 01:23:43 yeah, that annoys me, but using them makes you learn then. :p Aug 28 01:23:52 yigal: Ubuntu is run by idiots though Aug 28 01:23:55 @ luke-jr Aug 28 01:24:07 FIQ|n900: I still prefer aptitude Aug 28 01:24:24 Debian doesn't run on my PC Aug 28 01:24:27 missing modules Aug 28 01:24:27 http://pastebin.com/e14PqavP Aug 28 01:24:28 but i still manages to write apt-get search many times... Aug 28 01:24:32 MohammadAG: how is that even possible? Aug 28 01:24:52 not sure, it can't find my HDD and my optical drives Aug 28 01:24:56 wtf Aug 28 01:25:00 strange Aug 28 01:25:04 during installation Aug 28 01:25:12 MohammadAG: Debian stable or oldstable⁇ Aug 28 01:25:19 lenny Aug 28 01:25:23 weird Aug 28 01:25:34 but then again, I kinda only use Debian on remote servers Aug 28 01:25:34 btw, does aptitude makes fast switches possible? Aug 28 01:25:37 as in Aug 28 01:25:41 which tend to be more Linux-friendly Aug 28 01:25:50 doing more than one thing a time Aug 28 01:25:55 FIQ|n900: I don't think so Aug 28 01:25:57 MohammadAG, lenny should be considered outdated now. Give squeeze a shot Aug 28 01:26:01 aw Aug 28 01:26:11 honestly, I just use Debian as OpenVZ host, and put Gentoo in my VEs Aug 28 01:26:20 luke-jr trudat, but I need to use it as my laptop has gma 500 gpu and a multitouch screen, Ub. is the only distro. that kind of works, it's a shame I like Archlinux personally Aug 28 01:26:21 pacman -Syu ftw Aug 28 01:26:21 MNZ: nonsense Aug 28 01:26:34 yigal: so don't buy crappy hardware Aug 28 01:26:40 I'd take debian over ubuntu any day, but ubuntu is my only choice Aug 28 01:27:04 luke-jr trudat hindsight being 20/20 and all Aug 28 01:27:06 MohammadAG, which is why you should use squeeze. Squeeze is still debian, yet it's uptodate Aug 28 01:27:22 MNZ: and not stable Aug 28 01:27:28 luke-jr, debian like to move slowly, so by ubuntu's standards lenny is outdated Aug 28 01:27:41 Ubuntu's standards are meaningless Aug 28 01:27:43 uh Aug 28 01:27:57 luke-jr, I've been using it for over 4 or 5 months, stable as should be Aug 28 01:28:02 is debian stable even MORE off date than ubuntu..? Aug 28 01:28:03 I mean cmon, they ship GNOME Aug 28 01:28:06 as their default DE Aug 28 01:28:18 luke-jr, so does debian.... Aug 28 01:28:21 no Aug 28 01:28:29 luke-jr shouldn't have purchased n900 with PowerVR gpu Aug 28 01:28:56 luke-jr, well look at it this way, ubuntu stable or debian unstable? Aug 28 01:29:28 * FIQ|n900 has used Kubuntu before, worked fine until i buyed a new laptop which wlan was a no-go at (no idea why), but atm i just run windows for a while Aug 28 01:29:52 * lcuk thinks an abacus with printed application cards isn't open source enough for luke-jr Aug 28 01:29:59 did several tries to make an archlinux liveUSB, ended up giving up Aug 28 01:30:31 (no other dist worked eihter) Aug 28 01:32:07 but when i used kubuntu i used it as i used windows, N900 was the device that got me introduced 'for real' at linux and shell Aug 28 01:32:20 Arch works on my laptop just no multitouch or graphics acceleration it's just bad enough I can't use it to get work done Aug 28 01:32:47 n900 glad you got turned on to oss Aug 28 01:32:52 n900uk: please only do "mount" and post the results on pastebin.com Aug 28 01:33:02 * MNZ is a slackware user turned to debian Aug 28 01:33:33 anyway Aug 28 01:33:39 have to sleep Aug 28 01:33:50 good night Aug 28 01:33:52 good night Aug 28 01:33:56 I think tha Aug 28 01:34:00 away afk Aug 28 01:34:10 ts debatable but sleep well Aug 28 01:34:13 screw my typo skills Aug 28 01:34:23 amyway, afk Aug 28 01:34:27 feel that Aug 28 01:34:47 is amy way hot? Aug 28 01:36:35 owell I can't type fast enough on n900 to make many mistakes Aug 28 01:36:45 I'm up to around 30wpm Aug 28 01:37:00 yigal: I didn't. Aug 28 01:37:02 appropriate name then Aug 28 01:37:04 lcuk: i really need sleep _now_, could you pickup n900uk, as i leave. thanks... Aug 28 01:37:28 how much does he weigh? Aug 28 01:37:35 * lcuk was wondering the same Aug 28 01:37:49 could be demanding Aug 28 01:38:00 yeah and I am already weakened Aug 28 01:38:06 pebcac is pretty heavy Aug 28 01:38:17 n900 is lighter than a feather, meego is heavier than mountains. Or something. Aug 28 01:38:23 it's almlost week end for me Aug 28 01:38:50 * lcuk is resting after a meal Aug 28 01:39:18 sounds good bout to eat, just finished baking bread Aug 28 01:39:30 nice yigal Aug 28 01:39:42 do you have a machine to do it, or proper oven? Aug 28 01:40:39 i have an oven made banana bread this morning Aug 28 01:40:57 going crazy with the baking Aug 28 01:41:35 house always smells lovely when tracy does baking Aug 28 01:41:55 gonna make french bread on Sunday, lcuk man I love that smell Aug 28 01:42:10 :) Aug 28 01:42:32 I need to fix my bread machine. Aug 28 01:42:52 I hate the fact I have a nice programmable bread machine in perfect working order, and I can't get a replacement pan. Aug 28 01:43:32 aluminum foil? Aug 28 01:44:03 SpeedEvil, why can't you contact manufacturer? Aug 28 01:44:20 most places keep replacement parts around for years? Aug 28 01:44:49 lcuk: Where years = 3-4 Aug 28 01:44:53 btw, did I post this in the right forum: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61269 Aug 28 01:44:58 SpeedEvil, try anyway Aug 28 01:45:00 lcuk: I did Aug 28 01:45:03 they don't. Aug 28 01:45:06 ok, ebay Aug 28 01:45:12 Ebay doesn't have it. Aug 28 01:45:30 that sux Aug 28 01:45:33 what happened to your old one? Aug 28 01:45:33 yup. Aug 28 01:45:48 I dropped a teaspoon in it. Aug 28 01:45:54 … Aug 28 01:45:57 Then diddn't notice and ran it through a bake cycle. Aug 28 01:46:03 luke-jr, that thread I just posted, read it :p Aug 28 01:46:10 This somewhat damaged the non-stick coating Aug 28 01:46:33 I was using it like that, it was mostly OK if oiled, but I lost the paddle. Aug 28 01:46:34 meh Aug 28 01:46:51 It was a nice one - programmable times, multiple programs, ... Aug 28 01:47:20 did it have a bacon rack? Aug 28 01:47:38 is the pan where the bread comes out or something else - I'm old skool so I don't know these new fangled contraptions well? Aug 28 01:47:43 the ideal bread oven: would prepare the bacon too. mmmmmm Aug 28 01:49:36 No. Aug 28 01:50:01 yigal: It is a non-stick mould 12*20*22cm deep or so. Aug 28 01:50:05 anyone mounting nfs/samba drives on the n900? if not what do you use to transfer file from server/pc to n900? Aug 28 01:50:16 yigal: Into the bottom of this a paddle. Aug 28 01:50:43 this is the baking with Maemo channel zeltak wrong channel Aug 28 01:51:25 SpeedEvil hmm Aug 28 01:51:36 yigal: :) Aug 28 01:51:54 zeltak, I have only ever tried it the other way round Aug 28 01:52:02 zeltak, you get a sack of flour, then you install openssh-server and use sftp://root@yourn900'sIP Aug 28 01:52:03 ;) Aug 28 01:52:08 I have never seen my n900 show up on network on big pc Aug 28 01:52:18 but I have connected to the shares from my windows pc Aug 28 01:52:35 MNZ is right ;) Aug 28 01:52:42 yeah i use ssh but i find it really slow :( Aug 28 01:52:57 then plugin via usb and copy to the MyDocs? Aug 28 01:53:05 or get usbnetworking setup also Aug 28 01:53:14 yigal: this means that you can take a big tub of flour, dump in the right ingredients into the breadmaker, and get bread in 1-3h (depending on the sort of bread) with 60s effort. Aug 28 01:53:22 yeah i do that as well..just thought maybe nfs/samba would be better but thx guys Aug 28 01:53:42 would samba nbe encrypted? Aug 28 01:53:46 -n Aug 28 01:53:53 btw the usb thing works like 50%...kinda unriable (at least on linux) Aug 28 01:53:57 ie, could it theoretically be faster Aug 28 01:54:05 SpeedEvil I knew what it did just not exactly what it took to do it Aug 28 01:54:05 NFS Aug 28 01:54:13 yigal: Ah Aug 28 01:54:25 yigal: This is the cheap sort. The better sort have the paddle from the top. Aug 28 01:54:30 SpeedEvil, its the ubuntu of linuxes ;) Aug 28 01:54:34 ah Aug 28 01:54:36 zeltak, usb is as fast as you can get. I do about 30mb/s copying files Aug 28 01:54:43 yigal: The cheap sort the bearing goes unless you lube it. Aug 28 01:54:56 yigal, is used to the console method of breadmaking :D Aug 28 01:55:23 MNZ: yeah i know i meant about 50% of the time i try to connect with usb i get a "can connect" error until i reboot the n900 Aug 28 01:55:31 dunno why really Aug 28 01:55:44 ./configure rise bake Aug 28 01:55:51 :D Aug 28 01:55:59 zeltak, hmm Aug 28 01:56:22 zeltak, well sorry never seen this.. but have you installed a different kernel or packages from extras-devel? Aug 28 01:56:44 well not a kernel but i have some packages from extras-devel Aug 28 01:57:51 lcuk: I'd be surprised if CPU was a bottleneck with SFTP Aug 28 01:57:53 more like wifi Aug 28 01:58:25 luke-jr, wifii should theoretically do about 6mb/s max Aug 28 01:58:41 I achieve about 0.7-1mb/s Aug 28 01:58:52 I mean on sftp Aug 28 01:59:14 MNZ ya pretty slow Aug 28 01:59:28 MNZ: assuming no verification/checksum, headers, or other users Aug 28 01:59:38 and perfect signal Aug 28 02:00:06 tarpipe! Aug 28 02:00:10 night all food has made me sleepy Aug 28 02:00:17 night Aug 28 02:00:22 zash: and then re-copy when MD5 fails? Aug 28 02:00:40 yigal: night Aug 28 02:00:45 well, no other users yes, and perfect signal yes (the AP is 2 meters away, with line of sight!). The overheads should cost 5 times as much as the payload right? Aug 28 02:01:00 line of sight is not always the deciding factor for wifi Aug 28 02:01:01 s/should/shouldn't/ Aug 28 02:01:02 MNZ meant: well, no other users yes, and perfect signal yes (the AP is 2 meters away, with line of sight!). The overheads shouldn't cost 5 times as much as the payload right? Aug 28 02:01:16 in fact, if you're perfectly lined up with the antenna, you'll get no signal ;) Aug 28 02:01:44 I get 1.3M/s or so on large scps Aug 28 02:20:51 darn mupen64plus also reboot my machine...wtf...first drsnes... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 28 02:59:57 2010