**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 28 02:59:57 2010
Aug 28 06:13:31 <Stskeeps> morn
Aug 28 06:13:36 <DocScrutinizer> morn
Aug 28 06:17:15 <Stskeeps> http://dilbert.com/fast
Aug 28 06:17:15 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 28 06:22:14 <ieatlint> for shame, that makes light of insider trading
Aug 28 07:02:07 <RST38h> Anyone else having problems with Extras*?
Aug 28 07:30:01 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, usually too expensive
Aug 28 07:30:25 <DocScrutinizer> what sort of problems?
Aug 28 07:50:16 <l-fy_> hello
Aug 28 07:50:26 <l-fy_> i'm trying to sync my n900 with ovi
Aug 28 07:50:29 <l-fy_> it's there any way?
Aug 28 07:54:30 <RST38h> New crop of t.m.o members (Join date Apr 2010): http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=800611&postcount=128
Aug 28 07:55:07 <RST38h> Looks pretty automated, probably won't pass the Turing test.
Aug 28 08:07:47 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Aug 28 08:12:33 <ShadowJK> that was weird
Aug 28 08:12:50 <ShadowJK> no sound during call until I switched off silent profile
Aug 28 08:44:29 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Aug 28 08:46:37 <l-fy_> o crap
Aug 28 08:56:39 <l-fy_> wow
Aug 28 08:56:43 <l-fy_> nokia rulez
Aug 28 08:57:30 <swc|666> l-fy_, explain
Aug 28 08:58:17 <swc|666> s/explain/exrapoate/
Aug 28 08:58:17 <infobot> swc|666 meant: l-fy_, exrapoate
Aug 28 08:58:34 <swc|666> s/exrapoate/exrapolate/
Aug 28 08:58:44 <swc|666> ffs
Aug 28 08:59:23 <l-fy_> i've just sync my e71 with n900
Aug 28 08:59:27 <l-fy_> in just a push
Aug 28 08:59:34 <l-fy_> after seaching for an option for like 2 days
Aug 28 09:00:33 <Venemo> hey guys
Aug 28 09:04:13 <_trine> extrapolate
Aug 28 09:20:55 <lcuk> Stskeeps, all the more important for me to get it right
Aug 28 09:21:09 * lcuk will have to find a way to get over presenting nerves :P
Aug 28 09:21:32 <Stskeeps> :nod: wasn't disagreeing with proposal, just presentation of the proposal (was implicating it was a keynote)
Aug 28 09:23:48 <N900uk> hello
Aug 28 09:24:47 <N900uk> I followed the link from the wiki page , hoping to get some help
Aug 28 09:26:22 <lcuk> N900uk, gulp, followed what link
Aug 28 09:27:02 <N900uk> sorry i was here last night
Aug 28 09:27:27 <lcuk> indeed, and we asked you to paste something if i remember rightly and you didnt
Aug 28 09:28:24 <N900uk> yes i did, but I think my result might be wrong, mybe i got the command wrong
Aug 28 09:28:58 <lcuk> i may have missed it, have you still got the same problem
Aug 28 09:29:07 <N900uk> yes
Aug 28 09:30:22 <lcuk> then can you show me the pastebin you made
Aug 28 09:30:30 <Venemo> N900uk: what is your issue?
Aug 28 09:31:38 <N900uk> here is the link http://pastebin.com/e14PqavP
Aug 28 09:32:53 <lcuk> N900uk, sigh, you did not do as requested and you will have to speak with the guy who was doing it
Aug 28 09:33:17 <N900uk> Venemo: i am not able to delet my files anymore because the phone only sees the as read only and the camera no longer works
Aug 28 09:33:40 <N900uk> lcuk: okay
Aug 28 09:34:08 <_trine> its not uNmount its umount
Aug 28 09:34:20 <Venemo> N900uk: how about a reflash?
Aug 28 09:34:49 <joga> also there should be a semicolon after MyDocs
Aug 28 09:34:57 <N900uk> lcuk: did you see the mistake in the command line
Aug 28 09:35:18 <lcuk> the whole line is a mistake and I said as much last night N900uk
Aug 28 09:35:34 <N900uk> yes
Aug 28 09:36:21 <N900uk> venemo: reflash means i loose everything on the phone right
Aug 28 09:36:58 <lcuk> the whole line is a mistake and I said as much last night N900uk, and you responded to myself and FIQ who both tried to show you the simplest first step, and still went and did what tobis said
Aug 28 09:37:35 <lcuk> N900uk, backup your phone, copy all the pictures and things off it and reflash
Aug 28 09:37:46 <lcuk> it will be your simplest as Venemo suggests
Aug 28 09:37:51 <Venemo> N900uk: yes
Aug 28 09:37:54 <lcuk> if your home computer gets screwed you reformat it
Aug 28 09:38:02 <Venemo> N900uk: of yourse, make a backup to your computer before proceeding
Aug 28 09:38:50 <ShadowJK> l-fy_, hehe, I found out how to do that on the first day of owning N900 :)
Aug 28 09:38:54 <Termana> Lcuk - only if your on windows
Aug 28 09:38:56 <ShadowJK> migrated my contacts and stuff from E75
Aug 28 09:39:00 <Termana> Lcuk - :P
Aug 28 09:39:09 <lcuk> Termana, nahh I would be the same in linux
Aug 28 09:39:37 * lcuk is nearing that point with ubuntu
Aug 28 09:39:54 <lcuk> its being odd since I updated a component from a ppa
Aug 28 09:40:31 <l-fy_> well, i'm moving back to e71
Aug 28 09:40:32 <lcuk> that took my stable system made it show odd things on boot and lost my logout button on toolbar
Aug 28 09:42:30 <Venemo> lcuk: can you help me with some weirdness with Maemo's window manager?
Aug 28 09:43:20 <lcuk> you can ask and we can have a discussion as you know, but I am having coffee
Aug 28 09:43:31 <ShadowJK> my E75 currently serves as modem :)
Aug 28 09:43:44 <l-fy_> well, e71 it's what i want
Aug 28 09:44:10 <Venemo> lcuk: my homescreen widgets are fighting against the evil window manager, but they are losing the battle :(
Aug 28 09:44:47 <lcuk> hmm do explain
Aug 28 09:44:57 <Venemo> lcuk: the problem is this: by default, controls on a Qt homescreen widget require two clicks to work: one that focuses the widget, and one more that actually does something
Aug 28 09:45:33 <Venemo> lcuk: for the "official" homescreen loader, the guy fixed this by setting the WM input hint of the widget to 0
Aug 28 09:45:55 <Venemo> lcuk: but in this case, the QTextEdit I have doesn't work (it doesn't get any focus)
Aug 28 09:46:33 <Venemo> lcuk: in this case, if I manually focus it, it never focuses out when I click out of my homescreen widget...
Aug 28 09:46:41 <lcuk> Venemo, the official stance is that qt widgets shouldnt be allowed to get input like gtk widgets cannot :P
Aug 28 09:46:50 <Venemo> lcuk: yeah, I know :)
Aug 28 09:46:51 <lcuk> is this a new change?
Aug 28 09:47:01 <Venemo> lcuk: I'm sort of breaking the rules
Aug 28 09:47:06 <lcuk> as in, are you running qwertys tip?
Aug 28 09:47:12 <lcuk> oh crap
Aug 28 09:47:15 <D-Iivil> _o/
Aug 28 09:47:16 <lcuk> mohammads tip
Aug 28 09:47:21 <Venemo> lcuk: what is that?
Aug 28 09:47:27 <Venemo> D-Iivil: good morning
Aug 28 09:47:43 <D-Iivil> Does someone know if /usr/bin/personalisation_app is open source? And if so, in what package it comes with?
Aug 28 09:48:18 * D-Iivil is trying to figure out if parameters can be passed to that program...
Aug 28 09:48:36 <Venemo> D-Iivil: perhaps Stskeeps knows something about it
Aug 28 09:48:48 <Stskeeps> i think it's not, but i may be wron
Aug 28 09:48:48 <Stskeeps> g
Aug 28 09:48:50 <lcuk> Venemo, I meant the SSU that MohammadAG51 is putting together
Aug 28 09:48:58 <lcuk> have you installed that, or are you still on pr1.2 hildon
Aug 28 09:49:08 <Venemo> lcuk: yeah, but this is independent from his work
Aug 28 09:49:09 <D-Iivil> Stskeeps, actually what I want to know is what does that do when theme is changed.
Aug 28 09:49:24 <Venemo> lcuk: it behaves this way on both PR 1.2 and his desktop
Aug 28 09:49:45 <D-Iivil> Stskeeps, it does something else than just runs hildon-theme-cacher and restarts hildon-home.
Aug 28 09:50:10 <lcuk> Venemo, then if this is wanted in a wider scope, it will have to be investigated deeper
Aug 28 09:50:33 <lcuk> perhaps you and MohammadAG (speak of the devil!) could walk through the scenario in a gdb session and see whats happening
Aug 28 09:51:14 <MohammadAG> lol
Aug 28 09:51:47 <Venemo> lcuk: hmm, good idea if MohammadAG is willing :)
Aug 28 09:51:49 <D-Iivil> Stskeeps, and ofcourse sets desktop backgrounds and propably restarts also hildon-desktop. But there's still something else it does also because even rebooting does not clear all theme "caches", but running the personalisation_app does.
Aug 28 09:52:21 <Venemo> MohammadAG: how hard would this be? is this stuff even managed by Hildon-Desktop?
Aug 28 09:52:36 * MohammadAG opens up logs
Aug 28 09:54:40 * lcuk slides a coffee over at MohammadAG 
Aug 28 09:55:32 <MohammadAG> hildon-home and Qt
Aug 28 09:55:56 <MohammadAG> with the qt homescreen loader as the duct tape between both :P
Aug 28 09:56:00 <Venemo> MohammadAG: this is not specific to Qt (at least I don't think it is)
Aug 28 09:56:09 <Venemo> MohammadAG: and I don't use the Qt homescreen loader :)
Aug 28 09:56:21 <MohammadAG> hmm, loading it manually?
Aug 28 09:56:27 <Venemo> MohammadAG: yes!
Aug 28 09:56:44 <MohammadAG> hildon-home it is
Aug 28 09:58:28 <MohammadAG> sec, just checking out the problem with gpgme
Aug 28 09:58:37 <Venemo> MohammadAG: k
Aug 28 09:59:05 <Venemo> MohammadAG: no hurry
Aug 28 09:59:41 <Venemo> MohammadAG, lcuk: hm, I think I have solved it with a clever hack
Aug 28 10:06:25 <sniko> Has anyone successfully tried the new fennec alpha? I get a 404 message on the repository..
Aug 28 10:07:08 <RST38h> I am not only getting "handler unexpectedly quit" when trying to install fennec alpha, but the Extras* appear to have broken indices too now
Aug 28 10:08:43 <MohammadAG> Handler Silently Failed RST38h
Aug 28 10:08:50 <MohammadAG> want a fix?
Aug 28 10:09:10 <lcuk> Venemo, everything is solvable with a clever hack
Aug 28 10:09:31 <MohammadAG> RST38h, install and pin it http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/apt_0.7.20.2maemo13.1_0m5latest_armel.deb
Aug 28 10:09:45 <Venemo> lcuk: yeah...
Aug 28 10:10:13 <MohammadAG> RST38h, you should be able to install apps from the ovi store without vising the ovi store
Aug 28 10:10:44 <MohammadAG> RST38h, the deb is based on a lost source, someone took it off the packages site and I forgot which pc it was on
Aug 28 10:16:00 <slonopotamus> lcuk, except clever hacks themselves
Aug 28 10:17:30 <lcuk> no, those can be cascaded into ub3r hacks
Aug 28 10:17:35 <lcuk> very rare
Aug 28 10:17:39 <lcuk> like a double rainbow
Aug 28 10:17:47 <slonopotamus> :D
Aug 28 10:18:07 <Venemo> lcuk: rare like a white raven?
Aug 28 10:18:42 <lcuk> Venemo, rare like seeing a ninja rare
Aug 28 10:18:51 <Venemo> lcuk: :D
Aug 28 10:20:01 <slonopotamus> stuff like that can make kittens exstinguish (i hope i spelled it correctly)
Aug 28 10:20:42 <slonopotamus> s/s e/s totally e/
Aug 28 10:20:42 <infobot> slonopotamus meant: stuff like that can make kittens totally exstinguish (i hope i spelled it correctly)
Aug 28 10:21:14 <lcuk> why would kittens need extinguishing?
Aug 28 10:24:37 <Venemo> lcuk: anyways, this hack is not clever enough yet
Aug 28 10:26:35 <Venemo> lcuk: I can still trick it into a state when the issue re-appears in some form
Aug 28 10:35:19 <RST38h> Mohammad: Kinda afraid to replace apt =)
Aug 28 10:35:33 <RST38h> Mohammad: What is the reason for that silently failed message, anyway?
Aug 28 10:36:06 <lcuk> MohammadAG, hmm i agree here, please dont do that
Aug 28 10:36:13 <MohammadAG> lol
Aug 28 10:36:20 <RST38h> Mohammad: Ah =)
Aug 28 10:36:21 <MohammadAG> RST38h, you can't install from user/hidden
Aug 28 10:36:46 <RST38h> Mohammad: You mean, I can even install paid stuff from Ovi store without paying?
Aug 28 10:36:47 <MohammadAG> trying to do that causes an E: Handler Silently Failed message
Aug 28 10:36:51 <MohammadAG> no
Aug 28 10:36:53 <RST38h> Ovi Store is THAT secure? =)
Aug 28 10:37:05 <MohammadAG> otherwise it would be illegal to post that package :)
Aug 28 10:37:07 <RST38h> eeek
Aug 28 10:37:20 <RST38h> Mohammad: Not really illegal
Aug 28 10:37:22 <MohammadAG> it was possible to do that, but the store was taken down for 3 months
Aug 28 10:37:36 <RST38h> Mohammad: But I certainly how Ovi Store is not THAT porous
Aug 28 10:37:47 <RST38h> s/how/hope
Aug 28 10:38:22 <MohammadAG> nah
Aug 28 10:38:22 <psycho_oreos> bahahaha gotta love framebuffer console
Aug 28 10:38:45 <MohammadAG> there are two ways to install from the ovi store w/o visiting the store
Aug 28 10:38:55 <MohammadAG> the first would be through HAM, just enable red pill mode
Aug 28 10:39:19 <MohammadAG> 2nd would be the modified apt package above, with either plain old apt-get or fapman
Aug 28 10:39:53 <lcuk> the third would be slapping you around the head with a big trout
Aug 28 10:40:59 <haltdef> lol fapman
Aug 28 10:41:03 <haltdef> awesome name
Aug 28 10:41:44 <slonopotamus> 3rd is wget? :)
Aug 28 10:42:05 <psycho_oreos> red pill mode through HAM has been removed in pr1.2
Aug 28 10:42:23 <MohammadAG> psycho_oreos, not entirely
Aug 28 10:42:29 <MohammadAG> found a way to enable it
Aug 28 10:42:45 <psycho_oreos> MohammadAG, got any proof? ;)
Aug 28 10:42:48 <slonopotamus> MohammadAG, and 2nd is the _non-modified_ (as in upstream) apt
Aug 28 10:42:58 <MohammadAG> psycho_oreos, http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode
Aug 28 10:43:08 <MohammadAG> slonopotamus, no, it's the nokia apt, from 44-1
Aug 28 10:43:14 <MohammadAG> or was it 51-1
Aug 28 10:43:16 <MohammadAG> can't remember
Aug 28 10:45:28 * lcuk ponders whether picturing everyone in elvis suits would make meego conf keynote go easier
Aug 28 10:46:00 <MohammadAG> ah, right, it was apt 0.7.20.2maemo12+0m5
Aug 28 10:46:19 <MohammadAG> a version which suddenly disappeared from http://maemo.org/packages/view/apt/ :P
Aug 28 10:46:55 <Duckboot> lcuk: nervous?
Aug 28 10:47:28 <lcuk> Duckboot, very.
Aug 28 10:47:40 <lcuk> if i get accepted for this i will need much help
Aug 28 10:47:47 <Duckboot> lcuk: hehe
Aug 28 10:47:48 <Stskeeps> or beer
Aug 28 10:47:49 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 28 10:47:53 <lcuk> both
Aug 28 10:47:58 <Duckboot> beer always help.
Aug 28 10:48:03 <lcuk> but i would rather be sober on stage
Aug 28 10:48:47 <korhojoa_> sober? stage? whaat?
Aug 28 10:49:04 <MohammadAG> american idol
Aug 28 10:49:07 <MohammadAG> :P
Aug 28 10:50:07 <psycho_oreos> MohammadAG, interesting, thanks, the file was not available in PR1.2 but upon creating a new one and adding those two fields it now works
Aug 28 10:50:31 <MohammadAG> hmm, could've been carried over from PR1.1
Aug 28 10:50:50 <MohammadAG> never cleaned ~
Aug 28 10:51:52 <BCMM> does anyone have a working environment for compiling for maemo under Gentoo? Are Portage's various scratchbox-related packages any use for this?
Aug 28 10:52:14 <lcuk> korhojoa_, I posted about a meego summit keynote (ok, talk Stskeeps :P) My Meego Conference keynote: Maemo Community, Standing on the shoulders of giants    http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61269
Aug 28 10:52:23 <MohammadAG> you could try to install scratchbox and get the rootstrap images manually
Aug 28 10:52:59 <lcuk> BCMM, potentially, have a read through the SDK instructions for "non-debian systems"
Aug 28 10:53:26 <lcuk> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Starting_Scratchbox_on_non-Debian_based_systems
Aug 28 10:54:33 <BCMM> lcuk: sorry, that's just how to start scratchbox, not how to install it
Aug 28 10:54:54 <lcuk> BCMM, then read the rest and see if you can decipher it
Aug 28 10:55:05 <lcuk> and if you do, make some notes for the next generation?
Aug 28 10:55:19 <lcuk> or you in 6 months :P
Aug 28 10:55:25 <BCMM> i've had a shot at deciphering it, and i think my problem is not properly understanding the components of the SDK
Aug 28 10:55:39 <korhojoa_> lcuk: ah, okay
Aug 28 10:55:48 <BCMM> scratchbox is a general-purpose thing, on which one installs some maemo-specific stuff, right?
Aug 28 10:56:17 <lcuk> not hte best person, but I believe so
Aug 28 10:56:19 <lcuk> the
Aug 28 10:57:04 <MohammadAG> yes
Aug 28 10:57:06 <BCMM> see, i'd like to do things "properly" where possible, and an wondering if i can do something like install scratchbox from gentoo them install the maemo-specific stuff on it
Aug 28 10:57:22 <MohammadAG> <MohammadAG> you could try to install scratchbox and get the rootstrap images manually
Aug 28 10:57:44 <MohammadAG> BCMM, scratchbox is just an advanced chroot
Aug 28 10:57:45 <BCMM> MohammadAG: thanks, i actually did miss that the first time
Aug 28 10:58:32 <BCMM> confusingly, there is a package for dev-embedded/scratchbox-devkit-maemo3
Aug 28 10:58:53 <BCMM> i presume that's an old version of the maemo-specific stuff - maybe i could edit the ebuild to install maemo 5
Aug 28 10:59:11 <BCMM> MohammadAG: so what is rootstrap?
Aug 28 10:59:19 <slonopotamus> hehe
Aug 28 10:59:37 <slonopotamus> BCMM, smth related to porn afaik
Aug 28 10:59:51 <BCMM> one installs scratchbox, giving you a chroot-ish thing, then installs maemo's rootstrap?
Aug 28 11:00:01 <MohammadAG> yep
Aug 28 11:00:05 <MohammadAG> sec
Aug 28 11:00:12 <BCMM> from the name, i presume that's just enough of a system to apt-get the rest?
Aug 28 11:00:54 <MohammadAG> BCMM, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Manual_Installation
Aug 28 11:01:17 <MohammadAG> and yes :)
Aug 28 11:01:45 <BCMM> i think i may have been confused by assuming that their "debian" stuff was actually debian-specific, rather than meaning "and if you try it on other systems, don't blame us"
Aug 28 11:02:10 <BCMM> oh neat, a list of which bits of scratchbox are needed!
Aug 28 11:03:38 <BCMM> so the thing you end up with is basically a chroot containing maemo for x86? or maemo for ARM running with processor emulation?
Aug 28 11:04:43 <MohammadAG> both
Aug 28 11:04:46 <MohammadAG> if you need both
Aug 28 11:05:02 <MohammadAG> I have the X86 target deleted on a remote server since it's ssh only
Aug 28 11:05:15 <BCMM> not sure i understand
Aug 28 11:05:31 <BCMM> presumably the latter is needed to actually compile stuff for maemo?
Aug 28 11:05:57 <MohammadAG> you get two targets, a target is a chroot, the X86 target is for testing stuff since you can bring up the Maemo 5 UI on it
Aug 28 11:06:07 <MohammadAG> the ARMEL target is to compile packages for the device
Aug 28 11:06:20 <MohammadAG> which uses qemu to emulate arm
Aug 28 11:06:46 <BCMM> since it uses a real install of kdrive on hte host anyway, why can't you bring up the UI of the ARM version?
Aug 28 11:06:56 <BCMM> performance too low, or i'm missing something?
Aug 28 11:07:35 <MohammadAG> not sure, it just doesn't start
Aug 28 11:07:41 <BCMM> fair enough
Aug 28 11:07:41 <MohammadAG> I'm sure it's not performance though
Aug 28 11:07:54 <BCMM> hmm, that's odd
Aug 28 11:08:27 <MohammadAG> from the known issues: #
Aug 28 11:08:29 <MohammadAG> # Armel target does not bring up the UI framework
Aug 28 11:09:22 <BCMM> thanks a lot and sorry for so many questions; i think i understand the concepts now and i'll read the docs
Aug 28 11:11:26 <MNZ> morning fellas
Aug 28 11:12:42 <MNZ> so I just woke up, ate something, then decided to finally install the kernel I built. Now it starts to boot, does a quick vibration and shows the nokia logo, then restarts :/
Aug 28 11:13:18 <lcuk> mnz, congratulations, you installed the vibrator kernel
Aug 28 11:13:28 <lcuk> nokia branded apparantly
Aug 28 11:13:37 <MNZ> sweet, but I'm a guy
Aug 28 11:13:46 <lcuk> whatever floats your boat
Aug 28 11:13:51 <MNZ> :|
Aug 28 11:14:00 <lcuk> IDK, since changing the kernel is one of the more advanced things anything can happen
Aug 28 11:14:40 <lcuk> didnt your doctor tell you it was a tricky procedure?
Aug 28 11:14:58 <MNZ> he did. but I thought hey, everyone's doing it
Aug 28 11:15:43 <lcuk> not really
Aug 28 11:15:45 <MNZ> now to bring back the kernel and checking out the logs....
Aug 28 11:21:51 <lcuk> hmm is there really active discussion ongoing in #maemo-hostmode-discussion about usb host mode.  if you have an interest, perhaps you could idle there and add your skills and knowledge and some input as required :)
Aug 28 11:22:22 <MNZ> more maemo fun
Aug 28 11:23:28 <BCMM> i'm joining just to watch everyone else from this channel flood it with "is it ready yet?"
Aug 28 11:23:55 <jani> but best maemo fun is within few recent days is port of bambuser!
Aug 28 11:24:17 <lcuk> BCMM, if people are stupid enough to flood with those sorts of questions I am sure DocScrutinizer will get rid quickly
Aug 28 11:24:20 <BCMM> jani: what's bambuster
Aug 28 11:24:21 <tobis87> lcuk: Did the guy from yesterday was able to fix it? I was so tired, I surely would have said something wrong... The guy with the picture he was not able to delete.
Aug 28 11:24:39 <lcuk> its a serious topic that needs good quality input
Aug 28 11:25:21 <lcuk> tobis87, he came back this morning perhaps you can find him and talk
Aug 28 11:26:07 <BCMM> lcuk: i wasn't entirely serious...
Aug 28 11:26:19 <lcuk> as you see, the doc is :P
Aug 28 11:26:39 <BCMM> heh
Aug 28 11:27:44 <tobis87> lcuk: He could have flashed it anyway, but I just don't understand how you can try mount > pastebin.com in the shell... Is it not clear that you should do mount and paste the results in pastebin.com? Maybe I expect to much from people, which use linux the first time...
Aug 28 11:28:20 <BCMM> i was referring to what happens on the forum thread - personally, i've no intention of getting in the way like that
Aug 28 11:29:04 <MNZ> tobis87, I was going to tell you to drop it yesterday but frankly I didn't want to turn the user away and also I was wondering how far you can take it :D
Aug 28 11:29:22 <lcuk> tobis87, you asked him specifically to do it.  i have been talking to real users of numerous computer systems for 15 years, never over estimate and find a level with the person you are dealing with - and never take anything for granted
Aug 28 11:29:46 <tobis87> well, maybe this is because I grew up with ms-dos, so that the only way to use a pc, was to learn to use the shell...
Aug 28 11:32:14 <BCMM> tobis87: most people are very scared of the shell
Aug 28 11:33:30 <BCMM> i've been on the phone to friends and relatives who won't type "ipconfig" into cmd in case they typo and format their disk or something - that's just what a blinking white cursor says to most people
Aug 28 11:33:48 <lcuk> ++ i have been in similar BCMM
Aug 28 11:33:48 <tobis87> yes, but i just don't like to just say flash, flash, flash... if there is another solution for this. nobody likes to have to start from the beginning and if it is messed up anyway, you could at least learn from using the shell. you can still flash it later.
Aug 28 11:34:24 <BCMM> lcuk: i've also had someone passing by say, with admiration, "wow! you're controlling your computer!"
Aug 28 11:34:31 <lcuk> tobis87, water under the bridge
Aug 28 11:34:44 <BCMM> i don't think i was doing anything much cleverer than "ls" at that point that...
Aug 28 11:34:44 <lcuk> the user needs to paste his "mount" output
Aug 28 11:34:50 <lcuk> before doing any actions
Aug 28 11:35:32 <lcuk> just blunty trying to perform gobal partition maintainance before knowing there is a problem can cause damage
Aug 28 11:35:39 <lcuk> and people WILL try to follow your instructions
Aug 28 11:35:43 <lcuk> so don't do it
Aug 28 11:36:11 <lcuk> (the user came back this morning after attempting it
Aug 28 11:36:18 <BCMM> christ, scratchbox-devkit-doctools comes with an entire texlive distro
Aug 28 11:36:29 <tobis87> lcuk: yes, i asked him to do so... but I expect people to not just do whatever they get told... I thought it was clear to not do it in one command. Ok I also learned from it
Aug 28 11:37:01 <tobis87> i will remember this in the future, if i help other...
Aug 28 11:37:33 <lcuk> who wants coffee
Aug 28 11:38:09 <jani> check!
Aug 28 11:39:40 <tobis87> BCMM: but why are people scared of the shell, surely because windows tries to be easy and fails badly... if the system wasn't trying to be so easy, people would need to learn how to use a pc.
Aug 28 11:40:18 <BCMM> tobis87: i'm scared of the windows shell! terribly tab-completion
Aug 28 11:43:11 <Venemo> ~seen alterego
Aug 28 11:43:30 <Venemo> hm, where is infobot?
Aug 28 11:43:54 <kerio> he's online
Aug 28 11:43:58 <tobis87> BCMM: even worse no cat and grep... i think cat is called type in the windows cmd
Aug 28 11:44:03 <slonopotamus> ~seen infobot
Aug 28 11:44:08 <kerio> slonopotamus: lol
Aug 28 11:44:15 <slonopotamus> kerio, :P
Aug 28 11:44:17 <kerio> he's not responding to my botsnacks :(
Aug 28 11:44:26 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: is infobot dead?
Aug 28 11:44:44 * lcuk kicks DocScrutinizer to kick infobot
Aug 28 11:44:58 <Venemo> kerio: no, he's not online
Aug 28 11:45:23 * slonopotamus once did `locate locate` when `locate <smth>` failed because locate was not found
Aug 28 11:45:27 <DocScrutinizer> ibot is alive but hibernating
Aug 28 11:45:37 <tobis87> the powershell is not much better, .NET based, but I was amazed that they included some unix alias, like ps for example
Aug 28 11:45:40 <DocScrutinizer> not much I can do
Aug 28 11:46:25 <BCMM> every DOS machine i have to use gets an ls.bat
Aug 28 11:46:53 <DocScrutinizer> here you go
Aug 28 11:46:56 <pupnik> people who post comments in phone forums are fucking idiots
Aug 28 11:47:00 <DocScrutinizer> ~botsnack
Aug 28 11:47:03 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: :)
Aug 28 11:47:07 <Venemo> thanks DocScrutinizer
Aug 28 11:47:11 <Venemo> ~seen alterego
Aug 28 11:47:15 <infobot> alterego is currently on #maemo, last said: 'Depends who's justifying it.'.
Aug 28 11:47:27 <BCMM> tobis87: well, there is no cat equivalent because their pipes are broken, but you can use type to view a text file
Aug 28 11:47:40 <tobis87> rm -rf / in powershell: "get-psdrive -p "FileSystem" | % {ls -recurse $_.Root | rm –Force } "
Aug 28 11:47:52 <tobis87> :-D
Aug 28 11:48:14 <BCMM> i am actually laughing i real life and stuff
Aug 28 11:48:35 <psycho_oreos> I was told its possible to make n900 keyboard LED flash based on system activity without enabling R&D mode, is there a way to do this?
Aug 28 11:49:00 <Venemo> ~nuke alterego
Aug 28 11:49:01 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at alterego ... B☢☢M!
Aug 28 11:49:09 <BCMM> ls, rm and so on - do they constantly use POSIX command names for their own commands?
Aug 28 11:49:35 <kerio> their own?
Aug 28 11:49:37 <kerio> huh?
Aug 28 11:49:40 <kerio> they use syscalls, don't they
Aug 28 11:49:41 <BCMM> it sounds potentially very confusing, since i'm sure they don't really take posix syntax
Aug 28 11:49:55 <BCMM> kerio: was refering to tobis87's powershell example
Aug 28 11:50:13 <tobis87> BCMM: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Cmdlets
Aug 28 11:50:19 <kerio> i see
Aug 28 11:50:20 <BCMM> tobis87: is rm the usual command for deletion, or do they have del as well?
Aug 28 11:50:45 <tobis87> Remove-Item is the native command
Aug 28 11:51:50 <BCMM> oh i see, they have names that are familiar to both unix and windows people
Aug 28 11:52:43 <BCMM> i'd be upset at using a name like "man" if it behaves substantially differently to man
Aug 28 11:53:26 <tobis87> they actually did a test of windows xp; http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&ie=UTF8&langpair=auto|en&u=http://www.linux-user.de/ausgabe/2002/09/085-xp-test/index.html
Aug 28 11:55:55 <tobis87> and the powershell http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2007/78/SHELL-GAMES/%28kategorie%29/0
Aug 28 11:57:21 <psycho_oreos> MohammadAG, ping
Aug 28 11:57:29 <MohammadAG> pong
Aug 28 11:57:30 <RST38h> OMG a managed shell scripting!
Aug 28 11:57:47 <Dassu> :o
Aug 28 11:57:52 <psycho_oreos> MohammadAG, I bet you're the one who released that knight rider keyboard LED effect on youtube eh? :)
Aug 28 11:58:11 <RST38h> I mean, managed C and managed C++ has not been enough, so they have now got managed BASH (nothing in common with real BASH of course)
Aug 28 11:58:22 <MohammadAG> psycho_oreos, what gave it away? :P
Aug 28 11:59:12 <psycho_oreos> MohammadAG, I dunno, the youtube handle is somewhat similar? :)
Aug 28 11:59:46 <MohammadAG> damn, you've blown my cover!
Aug 28 12:00:21 <psycho_oreos> :p
Aug 28 12:00:28 <psycho_oreos> o rly?
Aug 28 12:01:44 <MohammadAG> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52239 :p
Aug 28 12:02:20 <psycho_oreos> MohammadAG, thanks :)
Aug 28 12:07:29 <Venemo> hm.
Aug 28 12:07:44 <Venemo> call is glitching when I deploy my app on my N900 during a call...
Aug 28 12:09:51 <SpeedEvil> During calls, voice goes through the CPU
Aug 28 12:09:58 <SpeedEvil> with a 5ms latency
Aug 28 12:19:36 <MNZ> MohammadAG, remember yesterday when you said I can just get the kernel packages and upload to device in case of mess up? I just did that with the kernel package, but what about the modules?
Aug 28 12:23:13 <Zucca> Is there a gui gconf tool for Maemo 5?
Aug 28 12:23:33 <Zucca> My connection settings are messed up.
Aug 28 12:27:00 <Venemo> Zucca: I don't think so. But there is a command line gconf tool
Aug 28 12:28:32 <Zucca> Yeah. That I saw. I was a bit too complex/arcane looking for me.
Aug 28 12:32:42 <MohammadAG> ~ping
Aug 28 12:32:43 <infobot> ~pong
Aug 28 12:34:23 <MohammadAG> ~flashing
Aug 28 12:34:24 <infobot> well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Aug 28 12:35:39 <MNZ> MohammadAG, so I have to get the entire firmware :/  I thought you said there was a way...
Aug 28 12:36:01 <lcuk> hahaha what an awesome sumission on the slashdot firehose
Aug 28 12:36:02 <lcuk> http://slashdot.org/submission/1319700/CodeWeaver-CEO-is-Employee-of-the-month-175th-time
Aug 28 12:38:02 <MohammadAG> MNZ, what?
Aug 28 12:38:22 <MohammadAG> MNZ, that wasn't for you, I needed a quick link for flasher
Aug 28 12:38:32 <MohammadAG> MNZ, kernel-modules
Aug 28 12:38:53 <MNZ> MohammadAG, heh sorry. Well yeah how do you install kernel-modules on a bricked device?
Aug 28 12:39:55 <MohammadAG> you shouldn't replace stock modules
Aug 28 12:41:25 <tobis87> it depends, fcam-drivers also replace stock modules... oh well not replace them in /lib/modules, but they are loaded in replace
Aug 28 12:47:57 <n900_Bricker> hi, deleted advanced kernel by using program manager, now it is not booting (no kernel anymore)
Aug 28 12:47:58 <MohammadAG> tobis87, device boots without them
Aug 28 12:48:16 <Stskeeps> n900_Bricker: ha-ha
Aug 28 12:48:16 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 28 12:48:27 <n900_Bricker> which one is fiasco image to use for restore
Aug 28 12:49:23 <n900_Bricker> flasher_35 installed already
Aug 28 12:50:17 <n900_Bricker> Found the follwing info at the wiki... sudo ./flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> --flash-only=kernel -f -R
Aug 28 12:50:32 <n900_Bricker> but what image to use?
Aug 28 12:50:34 <Stskeeps> n900_Bricker: tablets-dev.nokia.com has a n900 one, grab the 2010 one
Aug 28 12:50:52 <n900_Bricker> there are "emmc" images and others
Aug 28 12:51:03 <technomike_phone> no
Aug 28 12:51:25 <technomike_phone> emmc formats the flash memory or something (the 32gb mmc)
Aug 28 12:51:37 <technomike_phone> the emmc images I mean
Aug 28 12:51:58 <n900_Bricker> file:///home/tokoloshe/Desktop/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin could be the right one?
Aug 28 12:54:08 <MohammadAG> yes
Aug 28 12:54:39 <MohammadAG> you could try flashing http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/zImage.bin
Aug 28 12:54:47 <MohammadAG> easier than having to dl a 100+ MB image
Aug 28 12:57:09 <technomike_phone> i have installed kernel-power but notice no differences
Aug 28 12:57:15 <technomike_phone> mohammadag
Aug 28 12:57:26 <trumee> guys, i just bought a PS3 sixaxis controller to use with N900 although i dont own a PS3. Is it possible to charge the controller using the Nokia N900 charger?
Aug 28 12:57:28 <technomike_phone> i attempted installing your pulseaudio patch
Aug 28 12:57:45 <MohammadAG> it's not my patch, it's my package, but go on
Aug 28 12:57:53 <SpeedEvil> trumee: Does the sixaxis controller take a microUSB connector?
Aug 28 12:57:54 <MohammadAG> trumee, no
Aug 28 12:57:55 <technomike_phone> haha no trumee
Aug 28 12:57:59 <MohammadAG> mini USB
Aug 28 12:58:00 <SpeedEvil> trumee: Sounds unlikely
Aug 28 12:58:02 <technomike_phone> Use a PC
Aug 28 12:58:04 <technomike_phone> to charge it
Aug 28 12:58:22 <SpeedEvil> If it is indeed miniUSB, you might use an adaptor
Aug 28 12:58:25 <trumee> i dont want to carry a laptop around for charging the controller.
Aug 28 12:58:39 <MohammadAG> ...
Aug 28 12:58:43 <trumee> Is the current drawn by the N900 different to the controller?
Aug 28 12:58:56 <SpeedEvil> Power supplies do not supply current.
Aug 28 12:59:01 <technomike_phone> trumee - If you connect it to a PC using the miniUSB cable then it will charge. Or purchase a wall socket USB charger.
Aug 28 12:59:04 <MohammadAG> I'd suggest you don't try what you're thinking of
Aug 28 12:59:21 <SpeedEvil> If a table can support 300Kg, it does not mean that when you sit on the table you weigh 300Kg.
Aug 28 12:59:21 <MohammadAG> the sixaxis's battery life is a week for me
Aug 28 12:59:25 <MohammadAG> just charge it overnight
Aug 28 12:59:31 <SpeedEvil> Unless you happen to eat all the pies on the table.
Aug 28 12:59:44 <technomike_phone> haha
Aug 28 12:59:51 <technomike_phone> MohammedAG
Aug 28 12:59:59 <technomike_phone> i got stuck
Aug 28 13:00:01 <trumee> i do have a USB wall charger for my TomTom. It says Output 5V  - 1A
Aug 28 13:00:14 <technomike_phone> at the bit where you download all.tar.gz
Aug 28 13:00:31 <technomike_phone> trumee - use that
Aug 28 13:00:45 <MohammadAG> actually
Aug 28 13:00:45 <trumee> MohammadAG, SpeedEvil: will the tomtom charger  work?
Aug 28 13:00:51 <technomike_phone> it works. I have done it myself
Aug 28 13:00:53 <MohammadAG> the all.tar.gz is actually an all.tar
Aug 28 13:00:59 <SpeedEvil> trumee: Is it miniusb, and does it firt
Aug 28 13:01:00 <MohammadAG> wrong extension
Aug 28 13:01:12 <technomike_phone> MohammadAG - that's what I meant sorry
Aug 28 13:01:13 <trumee> SpeedEvil: yes it is minisub
Aug 28 13:01:24 <MohammadAG> technomike_phone, not your fault I named it wrong
Aug 28 13:01:30 <technomike_phone> ah
Aug 28 13:01:49 <technomike_phone> so rename it then try
Aug 28 13:02:02 <MohammadAG> trumee, try it, though iirc, the sixaxis doesn't charge unless its driver is installed
Aug 28 13:02:08 <trumee> technomike_phone: nope, it doesnt charge :(
Aug 28 13:02:16 <technomike_phone> I am looking forward to having stable audio output
Aug 28 13:02:17 <MohammadAG> dumb charger
Aug 28 13:02:22 <MohammadAG> use a PC
Aug 28 13:02:24 <trumee> MohammadAG: the leds dont glow at all
Aug 28 13:02:28 <technomike_phone> Yeah
Aug 28 13:02:29 <MohammadAG> I know
Aug 28 13:02:30 <technomike_phone> use a pc
Aug 28 13:02:36 <MohammadAG> it doesn't charge from dumb sources
Aug 28 13:03:05 <lcuk> RST38h, you are such a grouchy bastard.
Aug 28 13:03:07 <lcuk> :p
Aug 28 13:03:40 <trumee> i need a crash course on charging. What does very fast blinking red led and slow blinking led mean? and how do i know when it is fully charged?
Aug 28 13:03:55 <mirf> it's green when fully charged
Aug 28 13:03:58 <lcuk> trumee, potentially listed on the maemo wiki
Aug 28 13:03:59 <mirf> solid
Aug 28 13:04:00 <MohammadAG> fast blinking means connecting, slow blinking = charging
Aug 28 13:04:10 <MohammadAG> mirf, sixaxis, not N900
Aug 28 13:04:10 <mirf> charging is usually blinking orange iirc
Aug 28 13:04:12 <lcuk> green == fully done
Aug 28 13:04:15 <mirf> oooohhhh
Aug 28 13:04:18 <MohammadAG> sixaxis people
Aug 28 13:04:22 <trumee> MohammadAG: and how do i turn the controller off?
Aug 28 13:04:27 <MohammadAG> hold PS button
Aug 28 13:04:34 <technomike_phone> why doesn't rename all.tar.gz all.tar command work
Aug 28 13:04:35 <RST38h> lcuk: I am, yes, indeed
Aug 28 13:04:47 <MohammadAG> technomike_phone, no rename command on linux
Aug 28 13:04:50 <MohammadAG> mv renames
Aug 28 13:04:52 <trumee> when the leds are all off, does it mean that the unit if off?
Aug 28 13:04:56 <MohammadAG> yes
Aug 28 13:04:57 <trumee> *is
Aug 28 13:04:58 <lcuk> RST38h, I know that xchat should work
Aug 28 13:05:02 <RST38h> lcuk: But, OTOH, you probably won't argue that the proposed scenario is the most likely one
Aug 28 13:05:07 <lcuk> but is the handheld qt version of fbreader ready?
Aug 28 13:05:09 <technomike_phone> mohammadag - thanks
Aug 28 13:05:16 <RST38h> lcuk: No idea
Aug 28 13:05:21 <MohammadAG> technomike_phone, tar ignore extension anyways
Aug 28 13:05:29 <Zucca> Ha! Gconf-editor is on qole.org repo. \o/
Aug 28 13:05:29 <lcuk> i know it should be possible to get native gtk xchat in
Aug 28 13:05:29 <MohammadAG> you have to use the correct parametres
Aug 28 13:05:32 <MohammadAG> tar -xvf
Aug 28 13:05:35 <RST38h> lcuk: I am currently busy porting my own stuff to Qt
Aug 28 13:05:40 <lcuk> but will that also need more hacks to get it down to handsized
Aug 28 13:05:45 <lcuk> that we already did for the hildon branch
Aug 28 13:05:52 <lcuk> RST38h, sure I know
Aug 28 13:05:54 <technomike_phone> right
Aug 28 13:05:58 <trumee> mirf: when the leds are all off, does it mean that the unit is off?
Aug 28 13:06:00 <lcuk> but those 2 are community apps you have yourself looked over
Aug 28 13:06:08 <technomike_phone> its done. but what command is used now.
Aug 28 13:06:23 <RST38h> lcuk: I will get to them when I have the Meego device and time.
Aug 28 13:06:24 <lcuk> and RST38h you are rebuilding your entire code in qt?
Aug 28 13:06:27 <lcuk> or just wrapping it
Aug 28 13:06:32 <mirf> I don't know anythign about sixaxis
Aug 28 13:06:44 <trumee> mirf: k :)
Aug 28 13:06:45 <RST38h> lcuk: I am porting EMULib to Qt. Once it is done, my stuff should work without changes
Aug 28 13:07:02 <lcuk> reasonable enough
Aug 28 13:07:03 <trumee> MohammadAG: all leds off means that the unit is off?
Aug 28 13:07:15 <lcuk> and you will be able to get rid of many of the abstractions you currently worry about
Aug 28 13:07:17 <lcuk> individually
Aug 28 13:07:19 <MohammadAG> <trumee> when the leds are all off, does it mean that the unit if off?
Aug 28 13:07:20 <MohammadAG> <MohammadAG> yes
Aug 28 13:07:23 <lcuk> by just using the qt api itself
Aug 28 13:07:24 <tobis87> N900uk has posted this pastebin, http://pastebin.com/5YUFs6wd the MyDocs is mounted rw, but he can't create a file "touch test"...
Aug 28 13:07:32 * lcuk does understand the positive side of qt
Aug 28 13:07:37 <trumee> MohammadAG: sorry missed that.
Aug 28 13:07:57 * RST38h does not understand positive sides: qt is just another toolkit
Aug 28 13:08:09 <RST38h> Seen many of 'em during the last decade.
Aug 28 13:08:14 * lcuk nods
Aug 28 13:08:33 <lcuk> but isnt qt the one that will let you run same code on all various OSes
Aug 28 13:08:35 <tobis87> lcuk: is it safe, if i tell him to fsck the partiton?
Aug 28 13:08:39 <RST38h> Qt build tools are apparently half-baked, as for the rest, it is standard
Aug 28 13:09:04 <lcuk> tobis87, has he backed up stuff first just in case ;) readonly is better than not at all
Aug 28 13:09:05 <RST38h> Probably leads to a lot of memory leaks, as it is often unclear who is supposed to delete Qt objects.
Aug 28 13:09:20 <tobis87> lcuk: ok
Aug 28 13:09:43 <lcuk> RST38h, yeah
Aug 28 13:09:48 <lcuk> did you get a prototype working?
Aug 28 13:10:02 <RST38h> what prototype?
Aug 28 13:10:04 <lcuk> and should it also be buildable on the netbook image?
Aug 28 13:10:11 <lcuk> of your porting to see if its fast enough
Aug 28 13:11:28 <trumee> do default keys of DrNokSnes work well with sixaxis or do i need to map them?
Aug 28 13:13:12 <MNZ> So quick question, why should we not replace the kernel modules on the n900?
Aug 28 13:13:20 <derf> RST38h: But this toolkit will Save The World!
Aug 28 13:13:23 <derf> Or something.
Aug 28 13:13:29 <lcuk> and the cheerleader!
Aug 28 13:13:36 <trumee> also, is it recommended to OC for playing with sixaxis and DrNokSNes?
Aug 28 13:13:39 <technomike_phone> hahaha
Aug 28 13:14:09 <SpeedEvil> You should always overclock to at least 1.7GHz.
Aug 28 13:14:14 <kerio> ~omap-oc
Aug 28 13:14:14 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05  read that!
Aug 28 13:14:15 <trumee> SpeedEvil: :)
Aug 28 13:14:32 <SpeedEvil> But - seriously - overclocking is generally bad on the hardware.
Aug 28 13:14:54 <technomike_phone> LOL trumee. Its not recommended to OC *at all*
Aug 28 13:15:29 <RST38h> lcuk: Not interested in netbooks
Aug 28 13:15:30 <trumee> technomike_phone: hmm. i am presently running a stock kernel.
Aug 28 13:15:46 <technomike_phone> hahahaahaha
Aug 28 13:15:53 <RST38h> lcuk: In fact, not interested in meego unless it powers a mobile device
Aug 28 13:16:02 <lcuk> RST38h, but with nice free building there (if it works) why would you negate it?
Aug 28 13:16:15 <RST38h> lcuk: Got an Ubuntu.
Aug 28 13:16:27 <lcuk> does your stuff work there?
Aug 28 13:16:29 <RST38h> lcuk: Nice free hassle-free building on Ubuntu
Aug 28 13:16:34 <RST38h> lcuk: Yes, why not?
Aug 28 13:16:49 <lcuk> is that written in qt?
Aug 28 13:17:09 <RST38h> yes, qt stuff runs on ubuntu
Aug 28 13:17:16 <lcuk> your stuff is already in qt?
Aug 28 13:17:26 <RST38h> "my stuff" is in C.
Aug 28 13:17:26 <GAN900> lcuk, is anything you engage on Maemo/MeeGo-related these days tempered with anything but extreme "Go team!" sentimentality?
Aug 28 13:17:32 <RST38h> it runs everywhere
Aug 28 13:18:29 <lcuk> GAN900, it most likely is
Aug 28 13:18:30 <technomike_phone> RST38h - same here. not interested in meego on other devices except mobiles
Aug 28 13:18:53 <RST38h> and, mind you, it does not necessarily have to be Meego
Aug 28 13:19:14 <RST38h> Maemo has been ok, as far as I am concerned
Aug 28 13:20:21 <lcuk> RST38h, what prevents the push for meego handset with you? if its just another target why not?
Aug 28 13:20:29 <lcuk> or is it issue with closed dependencies?
Aug 28 13:20:45 <RST38h> lcuk: there is no hardware with the usable meego handset installation
Aug 28 13:20:59 <RST38h> lcuk: once I get such hardware, I will work directly with it
Aug 28 13:21:16 <RST38h> lcuk: right now, I am targeting Maemo5 with Qt 4.6
Aug 28 13:21:52 <lcuk> so a pure qt open source build or keeping the closed backend?
Aug 28 13:22:27 <RST38h> lcuk: <parsing error>
Aug 28 13:22:49 <lcuk> is it full qt and will go through the autobuilder or will it have closed source blobs still
Aug 28 13:22:56 <lcuk> errr OBS
Aug 28 13:23:08 <RST38h> ah, it will be a binary package
Aug 28 13:23:23 <RST38h> locally built.
Aug 28 13:23:56 <lcuk> *nod*
Aug 28 13:28:37 <mikhas> wow, "RST38h: ... Maemo has been ok, as far as I am concerned" - that I would live to read that! ;-)
Aug 28 13:28:51 <mikhas> note to self: how to convince pessimist: come up with something worse
Aug 28 13:29:13 <lcuk> heh good morning mikhas
Aug 28 13:29:31 <lcuk> how is miniature going?
Aug 28 13:29:36 <mikhas> badly
Aug 28 13:29:36 <Venemo> alterego: ping
Aug 28 13:29:41 <lcuk> bah
Aug 28 13:29:58 <lcuk> whats blocking or is it just time busy doing other stuff atm?
Aug 28 13:30:17 <mikhas> yeah, no free brain capacity to do the things I need to do
Aug 28 13:32:06 <SpeedEvil> cd ~/mikhas;rm -r Perfect\ Treehouse
Aug 28 13:32:23 <RST38h> mikhas: Maemo is not particularly bad, just not properly maintained
Aug 28 13:32:27 <mikhas> hey! now I have to start over again!
Aug 28 13:32:42 <RST38h> mikhas: You want bad, check out Redhat (*not* Meego, the real one)
Aug 28 13:32:59 <n900_bricker> how long does it take for flashing kernel only...waiting for some minutes...
Aug 28 13:33:01 <RST38h> Or Gentoo. Or Slackware.
Aug 28 13:37:34 <MNZ> RST38h, slackware is very properly maintained, tyvm.
Aug 28 13:37:49 <RST38h> eek
Aug 28 13:44:25 * SpeedEvil uses slackware.
Aug 28 13:44:30 <SpeedEvil> It 'just works' for me.
Aug 28 13:47:39 <derf> I won't say Gentoo "just works", but no distribution I've ever used has.
Aug 28 13:47:59 <derf> The nice feature of Gentoo is that I can actually fix everything that's broken without too much effort.
Aug 28 13:48:15 <sulx> like arch
Aug 28 13:48:26 <RST38h> FreeBSD is even better at that, as it does not get broken that often ;)
Aug 28 13:48:48 <derf> Yes, unfortunately that means you're running FreeBSD, though.
Aug 28 13:50:01 <RST38h> As long as it makes things work, I see no problem there
Aug 28 13:52:36 <mick_laptop> hi everyone, i'm trying to run the simulator but I honestly can't figure it out. I have it installed and I just ran simulator.app
Aug 28 13:53:11 <mick_laptop> it just gives me all the options - i don't see how i can just turn it on
Aug 28 13:55:29 <GAN900> n900_bricker, just a few seconds.
Aug 28 13:57:31 <kerio> slackware lacks a true package manager :|
Aug 28 14:00:03 <mick_laptop> kerio: that is the point of slackware
Aug 28 14:00:15 <kerio> apt <3
Aug 28 14:00:19 <mick_laptop> http://www.forum.nokia.com/Develop/Qt/Getting_started/Step_3_Test.xhtml <--- i want to get to this step
Aug 28 14:02:57 <Zucca> Anyone have any good explanation why my N900 asks confirmation for "roaming data" every time, even if I'm in my own country...
Aug 28 14:03:46 <mick_laptop> this is what i get instead: http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4880/qthatesm.png
Aug 28 14:03:57 <DocScrutinizer51> settingsinternet 'always ask' ?
Aug 28 14:06:29 <mick_laptop> none of the examples even build for me
Aug 28 14:06:40 <Zucca> DocScrutinizer51: Connect automatically. Of course it won't ask it if there's awailable wlan.
Aug 28 14:07:00 <Zucca> This has been bugging me singe the day I bought N900.
Aug 28 14:07:04 <Zucca> *since
Aug 28 14:07:13 <mick_laptop> all i really wanted was to try maemo :) and bring up a browser so i can target mobile devices better :)
Aug 28 14:07:17 <n900uk> lcuk: could let tobis87 know that everything seems to be fine now
Aug 28 14:07:42 <kerio> mick_laptop: targeting mobile devices isn't easy
Aug 28 14:07:56 <kerio> you have to consider the interface, the form factor,
Aug 28 14:08:07 <kerio> it's not just a matter of emulating the OS in a window
Aug 28 14:08:48 <n900uk> lcuk: but i will still hang around. he requested i give him an hour. files are now ok
Aug 28 14:09:20 <mick_laptop> kerio: actually if you read what i said - i just want a *browser*
Aug 28 14:09:58 <mick_laptop> i know what I'm doing (as far as what I want to achieve)
Aug 28 14:10:21 <mick_laptop> i just want the simulator to not suck
Aug 28 14:10:23 <mick_laptop> :)
Aug 28 14:10:56 <mick_laptop> this is what I keep getting when the examples don't compile and crash simulator.app "Could not create display memory. Retrying..."
Aug 28 14:20:23 <mick_laptop> w/ anroid you install the package target, create an avd and then start the emulator - done
Aug 28 14:20:33 <mick_laptop> android*
Aug 28 14:22:44 <n900uk> lcuk: not for very long. seems to be re-occurring again
Aug 28 14:24:05 <MohammadAG> ~ping
Aug 28 14:24:06 <infobot> ~pong
Aug 28 14:24:36 <mick_laptop> does QT Creator need to connect to a specific port to work?
Aug 28 14:24:58 <mick_laptop> "Waiting for RPC reply to 'setWidgetGeometry'' call timed out
Aug 28 14:25:17 <Venemo> mick_laptop: no, it doesn't need to. what are you doing?
Aug 28 14:25:29 <red> can I somehow physicly access the memory card of the n900?
Aug 28 14:25:49 <red> my phone is broken and I thought I'd take a try if my card reader could read the micro sd(?)
Aug 28 14:26:05 <red> all I can see is the slot for the 2nd memory card when I pop the back open
Aug 28 14:26:36 <mick_laptop> Venemo: i'm trying to create a drupal theme targeting nokia handheld devices. I'm trying to use the simulator.
Aug 28 14:26:41 <GAN900> red, it's soldered on.
Aug 28 14:27:04 <Venemo> mick_laptop: huh. the Qt simulator?
Aug 28 14:27:06 <mick_laptop> i was expecting this: http://www.forum.nokia.com/Develop/Qt/Getting_started/Qt_Getting_Started_images/14_simulator_v3.jpg
Aug 28 14:27:14 <red> gan900: so I can't pry it off? :P
Aug 28 14:27:21 <mick_laptop> this is what i get instead: http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4880/qthatesm.png
Aug 28 14:27:39 <red> got some stuff there I'd really like to get back
Aug 28 14:27:42 <red> a lot of photos
Aug 28 14:27:47 <Venemo> mick_laptop: the Qt simulator has never ever worked for me
Aug 28 14:27:57 <Venemo> mick_laptop: use the N900 emulator from MADDE or a real device :)
Aug 28 14:31:50 <mick_laptop> 1hr download
Aug 28 14:31:53 <mick_laptop> yikes
Aug 28 14:31:55 <mick_laptop> :)
Aug 28 14:32:13 <mick_laptop> Venemo: thanks for that pointer
Aug 28 14:32:17 <yoyoyo> hey guys, I've gmail setup so that I can send from a bunch of different email addresses - but when I setup gmail in the maemo mail client, it only shows that I can send from the master account - any ideas?
Aug 28 14:35:44 <yoyoyo> also, sending mail has an smtp error, I've never been able to send, but receiving works fine.. the forum says to change ...@gmail.com to @google.com in smtp settings, but that didn't fix it
Aug 28 14:36:44 <tobis87> damn, thunder-storm... made my lcd flash, n900uk have you done the backup?
Aug 28 14:36:47 <red> yoyoyo: no workaround for that
Aug 28 14:37:07 <Venemo> mick_laptop: if you use Nokia Qt SDK, you already have MADDE :P
Aug 28 14:37:10 <red> the multiple stuff that is
Aug 28 14:37:14 <red> sending worked fine for me
Aug 28 14:38:00 <yoyoyo> k fixed that part
Aug 28 14:38:18 <yoyoyo> red, tell me, so you can select multiple email addresses in "new message" in the maemo client?
Aug 28 14:38:30 <yoyoyo> did you just add one account?
Aug 28 14:38:34 <yoyoyo> that is what I did
Aug 28 14:39:46 <yoyoyo> oh, well are there any clients that can do it?
Aug 28 14:39:58 <yoyoyo> that is a very important feature, red
Aug 28 14:40:46 <kerio> the webmail?
Aug 28 14:41:09 <kerio> microb is a mickass browser after all
Aug 28 14:41:25 <yoyoyo> I'm talking about gmail's ability to send from various accounts
Aug 28 14:43:20 <korhojoa> yoyoyo: what is that function called?
Aug 28 14:43:31 <korhojoa> can you show me a link to a google document about it?
Aug 28 14:43:37 <mick_laptop> Venemo: that is what i thought, but where is it?
Aug 28 14:44:32 <Venemo> mick_laptop: for me, C:\NokiaQtSDK\Maemo\4.6.2
Aug 28 14:44:37 <mick_laptop> ~/NokiaQtSDK/Maemo/4.6.2
Aug 28 14:44:45 <mick_laptop> ok, but how do i start it?
Aug 28 14:44:47 <Venemo> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54225
Aug 28 14:44:52 <mick_laptop> it looks like a file system stucture
Aug 28 14:45:09 <Venemo> mick_laptop: check out this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54225
Aug 28 14:45:25 <mick_laptop> awesome
Aug 28 14:45:30 <mick_laptop> exactly what i needed
Aug 28 14:45:34 <mick_laptop> thanks again Venemo
Aug 28 14:45:42 <Venemo> mick_laptop: you're welcome! :)
Aug 28 14:47:08 <mick_laptop> ./bin/mad remote -r rx51-fremantle-pr12 poweron - did it for me
Aug 28 14:47:16 <mick_laptop> now I need to wait a while for qemu
Aug 28 14:47:27 <mick_laptop> kind of cool that they use qemu
Aug 28 14:47:39 <Venemo> mick_laptop: if you have any issues with it, ask on #qt-maemo -> the guys working on Qt for Maemo are there in European working hours
Aug 28 14:47:45 <Venemo> mick_laptop: they are also very friendly
Aug 28 14:47:53 <mick_laptop> oh very awersome
Aug 28 14:48:23 <knightstalker> Hello,I have a question about if there are any download managers for Maemo,as the Maemo's browsers download manager when the connection is disconnected for few second,will just kill the file :(
Aug 28 14:48:46 <knightstalker> the download manager I need is not about increasing the speed but,not to lose the downloaded amount
Aug 28 14:49:32 <knightstalker> and Idk,but I am a bit unsure about wget,I had a problem which when I closed terminal and used wget again It recovered the data,however,at last,the downloaded thing was corrupted... -.-
Aug 28 14:58:04 <yoyoyo> korhojoa http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=22370
Aug 28 15:08:42 <yoyoyo> back
Aug 28 15:14:11 <BCMM> MohammadAG: thanks for explaining scratchbox for me - i'm installing maemo-sdk-debug now
Aug 28 15:14:27 <BCMM> (don't worry, i haven't been puzzling over it nonstop since i last spoke to you)
Aug 28 15:18:36 <BCMM> assuming this all works right, where would be an appropriate place to post a howto for other people wanting to do n900 development on Gentoo?
Aug 28 15:18:57 <SpeedEvil> the wiki?
Aug 28 15:19:00 <SpeedEvil> Blog?
Aug 28 15:19:20 <BCMM> thanks
Aug 28 15:19:44 <Venemo> BCMM: either the forum (talk.maemo.org) or a blog entry, or a wiki page
Aug 28 15:20:29 <Venemo> BCMM: or both
Aug 28 15:20:39 <BCMM> Venemo: http://wiki.maemo.org?
Aug 28 15:21:11 <SpeedEvil> Probably sane
Aug 28 15:21:23 <BCMM> i haven't used the wiki before; are ordinary users allowed to add information to, for example, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation ?
Aug 28 15:21:29 <trumee> is it possible to play quake 3 with sixaxis controller?
Aug 28 15:21:29 <SpeedEvil> yes
Aug 28 15:21:35 <SpeedEvil> anyone can add to wiki
Aug 28 15:21:43 <BCMM> hmmm
Aug 28 15:22:57 <trumee> BCMM: there is a webpage somewhere describing how to install scratchbox and maemo sdk on gentoo
Aug 28 15:23:23 <trumee> BCMM: here, http://geektor.blogspot.com/2009/12/maemo-5-sdk-in-gentoo.html
Aug 28 15:23:59 <BCMM> trumee: i've seen a few of those, and i'm doing things slightly differently
Aug 28 15:24:09 <trumee> BCMM: i have followed that page sucessfully on my gentoo box
Aug 28 15:24:31 <BCMM> i'm trying to do this with the scratchbox packages in portage
Aug 28 15:24:36 <BCMM> so far it appears to be working
Aug 28 15:24:44 <trumee> BCMM: good
Aug 28 15:25:22 <trumee> Since there is no quake 3 + sixaxis video on youtube, i guess it is not possible yet.
Aug 28 15:26:26 <BCMM> assuming this works, i'll have followed http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#On_x86_and_x86_64_Debian-based_systems to the letter apart from using emerge instead of apt-get to get scratchbox, and not having to worry about the groups thing because the ebuild took care of it
Aug 28 15:27:22 <trumee> aha!, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxRHmsUkijU
Aug 28 15:30:53 <Zucca> I've now reseted all the data roaming settings. And I even chose my carrier manually. Now when I open a data connection my N900 still asks if I really want to use roaming GPRS. I'm out of ideas here.
Aug 28 15:32:05 <Zucca> Somehow Maemo thinks that my own network carrier isn't "home".
Aug 28 15:32:20 <technomike_phone> yes
Aug 28 15:32:22 <technomike_phone> same here
Aug 28 15:32:33 <technomike_phone> and it's because
Aug 28 15:32:41 <Zucca> Yes?
Aug 28 15:32:56 <technomike_phone> when your phone switches from 3G to 2G when you move out off 3G area
Aug 28 15:33:28 <technomike_phone> some networks put you on their 2G network which is actually used from another network
Aug 28 15:33:50 <technomike_phone> if you understand what I mean
Aug 28 15:33:52 <Zucca> Ok. So this is the deal...
Aug 28 15:33:54 <kerio> mine does that
Aug 28 15:33:57 <Zucca> Yes.
Aug 28 15:34:00 <kerio> but also makes me pay for internet while in 2g
Aug 28 15:34:02 <kerio> so...
Aug 28 15:34:22 <zeltak> hya..anyone using MohammadAG pulse audio fix? how is it working for you guys?
Aug 28 15:34:29 <Zucca> My celculler connection is from a company that owned by another company...
Aug 28 15:34:43 <kerio> what fix?
Aug 28 15:34:44 <kerio> :o
Aug 28 15:34:46 <kerio> i like fixes
Aug 28 15:35:11 <Zucca> And at some places it uses the owning company identification rather than the company which I'm client of.
Aug 28 15:35:40 <zeltak> i remember seeing a package a few days ago that fixes some pulseaudio bugs...mainly audio stuttering (which happens to me alot on my n900)
Aug 28 15:36:39 <zeltak> kerio: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=793851
Aug 28 15:36:56 <GAN900> kerio, see Talk.
Aug 28 15:37:00 <GAN900> kerio, or mwkn.net
Aug 28 15:37:28 <kerio> i don't have stutter
Aug 28 15:37:46 <zeltak> i do...alot...happens mainly with podcasts
Aug 28 15:39:02 * RST38h sighs
Aug 28 15:40:59 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, ping
Aug 28 15:42:26 <Zucca> technomike_phone: Is it possible add more operators to "home". Via gconf?
Aug 28 15:43:27 <zeltak> hya MohammadAG
Aug 28 15:43:46 <MohammadAG> hi
Aug 28 15:44:04 <zeltak> so how is your pusle package working so far? is it only for the power kernel?
Aug 28 15:44:20 <RST38h> ...Once the properties of SCP-761 were confirmed, most of these missing persons were located, in the form of entombed remains.
Aug 28 15:45:01 <MohammadAG> stutters a bit apparently, less than before
Aug 28 15:45:08 <MohammadAG> volume is higher for some
Aug 28 15:45:12 <MohammadAG> max volume that is
Aug 28 15:45:22 <MohammadAG> it's for a newer unreleased stock kernel, works on power-kernel
Aug 28 15:45:25 <MohammadAG> err, kernel-power
Aug 28 15:45:31 <zeltak> gothca
Aug 28 15:45:45 <zeltak> yeah i get loads of stuttering on podcasts
Aug 28 15:46:34 <red> how do I safely reset my n900 so that all my data is garbled (and unsaveable with certain software)
Aug 28 15:46:47 <red> bascly would like to shred the memory and then flash the OS to it
Aug 28 15:46:48 <zeltak> are there sys logs on the n900 like on stock linux? most emulators crash my system and reboot it and was wondering if there is anyway to pinpoint the cause
Aug 28 15:49:52 <GAN900> ~flashing
Aug 28 15:49:52 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Aug 28 15:51:52 <RST38h> ...Contaminated organisms gradually lose all color saturation, becoming living "black and white" characters over the course of a few days, at which point they become contagious.
Aug 28 15:53:20 <BCMM> are you quoting from infobot's link?
Aug 28 15:53:39 <RST38h> yes.
Aug 28 15:53:50 <BCMM> i don't think i'm going to update my firmware
Aug 28 15:53:59 <BCMM> my next guess would be SCP
Aug 28 15:54:26 <technomike_phone> MohammadAG
Aug 28 15:54:34 <MohammadAG> technomike_phone,
Aug 28 15:54:53 <technomike_phone> Could you help me out
Aug 28 15:55:03 <technomike_phone> installing your pulseaudio patch
Aug 28 15:55:24 <MohammadAG> install kernel-power
Aug 28 15:55:25 <MohammadAG> download tar
Aug 28 15:55:28 <MohammadAG> mkdir pulseaudio
Aug 28 15:55:32 <MohammadAG> cd pulseaudio
Aug 28 15:55:33 <technomike_phone> I have renamed the file but not sure what to do
Aug 28 15:55:37 <MohammadAG> tar -xvf ../all.tar
Aug 28 15:55:41 <MohammadAG> dpkg -i *
Aug 28 15:55:42 <MohammadAG> done
Aug 28 15:55:48 <technomike_phone> many thanks
Aug 28 15:55:53 <MohammadAG> welcome :P
Aug 28 15:55:58 <MohammadAG> quickest howto I've written
Aug 28 15:56:15 <technomike_phone> how can i verify kernel-power is installed
Aug 28 15:56:23 <technomike_phone> I am sure I did it the other day
Aug 28 15:56:25 <MohammadAG> uname -a
Aug 28 15:57:12 <technomike_phone> Linux Nokia-N900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Thu Apr 15 09:47:09 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown
Aug 28 15:57:55 <red> is the finnish n900 with global firmware or uk firmware?
Aug 28 15:58:56 <technomike_phone> kernel-power is already the newest version.
Aug 28 15:58:57 <technomike_phone> ah must be then :)
Aug 28 15:58:59 <technomike_phone> surely its global.
Aug 28 15:59:36 <technomike_phone> MohammedAG
Aug 28 15:59:47 <technomike_phone> tar -xvf ../all.tar
Aug 28 15:59:57 <technomike_phone> tar: invalid tar magic
Aug 28 16:00:42 <satmd> file all.tar
Aug 28 16:03:10 <MNZ> RST38h, wth is this scp wiki?
Aug 28 16:05:59 <MNZ> RST38h, nvm, just found a how-to-write-an-scp
Aug 28 16:08:40 <technomike_phone> damn this pulseaudio !
Aug 28 16:08:53 <technomike_phone> shouldn't even have to do this anyway
Aug 28 16:09:05 <technomike_phone> it shouldn't even stutter anyway
Aug 28 16:09:37 <technomike_phone> N900 is definetly the last nokia device I ever buy. Fed up with the ammount of bugs and product quality.
Aug 28 16:09:47 <Stskeeps> good for you
Aug 28 16:10:50 <kerio> the n900 is a crappy device, but it's still better than *anything* similar that exists today
Aug 28 16:11:07 <Stskeeps> get a freerunner
Aug 28 16:11:08 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 28 16:11:21 <technomike_phone> I don't mean that bad. I am just saying. Its a shame about the stuttering audio.
Aug 28 16:11:29 <technomike_phone> Agreed totally kerio
Aug 28 16:11:52 <technomike_phone> xD stskeeps
Aug 28 16:19:48 <Zucca> Is it possible to set home carrier manually? So that N900 thinks it's in home carrier zone?
Aug 28 16:22:45 <technomike_phone> Not sure
Aug 28 16:23:14 <technomike_phone> Can N900 play .flv kerio ?
Aug 28 16:23:23 <Stskeeps> yes? :P
Aug 28 16:23:26 <Stskeeps> mplayer
Aug 28 16:24:11 <technomike_phone> Ah yeah :)
Aug 28 16:24:18 <technomike_phone> of course
Aug 28 16:24:33 <technomike_phone> I say stuff without thinking sometimes haha
Aug 28 16:31:06 <mikki-kun> did it ever happen to anyone of you, that certain apps segfault for you? my fennec v2_a doesn't work e.g.
Aug 28 16:35:44 <technomike_phone> is it possible to have more than one x terminal open
Aug 28 16:36:11 <mikki-kun> ctrl+shift+x
Aug 28 16:36:18 <mikki-kun> that makes a new terminal
Aug 28 16:36:26 <mikki-kun> a lil bit of finger twister though
Aug 28 16:36:37 <technomike_phone> thanks alot :D worked
Aug 28 16:36:42 <mikki-kun> np :)
Aug 28 16:53:24 <GAN900> So which of you UK folks are looking out for hurricane Earl? :P
Aug 28 16:53:43 <technomike_phone> Never knew about it
Aug 28 16:54:04 <GAN900> It may start swinging your direction, so watch out. :P
Aug 28 16:55:34 <technomike_phone> :o !!!
Aug 28 16:56:23 <technomike_phone> going to check it out on the net now
Aug 28 16:56:48 <GAN900> There's a second one that may be headed for New York.
Aug 28 16:56:51 * GAN900 cackles.
Aug 28 17:01:43 <joga> does someone use quick-launch with transitioncontrol?
Aug 28 17:02:18 <joga> apparently doesn't work, I get the same as the person in this thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=794267
Aug 28 17:19:36 <MNZ> how do I KILLLLL pulseaudio?
Aug 28 17:19:43 <MNZ> what's restarting it?
Aug 28 17:20:04 <Stskeeps> upstart
Aug 28 17:20:06 <Stskeeps> do you want call audio?
Aug 28 17:20:11 <Stskeeps> then you have to have PA
Aug 28 17:20:18 <MNZ> temporarily, no
Aug 28 17:21:06 <MNZ> ok, so how do I kill it?
Aug 28 17:27:00 <kerio> stop pulseaudio
Aug 28 17:27:03 <kerio> as root
Aug 28 17:28:14 <MNZ> kerio, thanks.
Aug 28 17:44:08 <skyscraper> MohammadAG51: how to use the new ubuntu?
Aug 28 17:46:22 <skyscraper> MohammadAG51: with old tutorial http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=752676&postcount=51
Aug 28 17:46:36 <skyscraper> ?
Aug 28 17:52:12 <Zucca> Oh man. Just when I got sorted all my connection back in order fMMS messes all up again.
Aug 28 17:53:58 <kerio> frals!
Aug 28 17:55:11 <Zucca> fMMS replaced my default gprs connection and changed it into MMS connection. My previous gprs connetion is now IAP/0000-0000-0000-0000 and MMS connection is IAP/Saunalahti@32@Internet...
Aug 28 17:55:32 <Zucca> It should be the other way aroud.
Aug 28 17:56:24 <Zucca> Now I can't even receive any MMS...
Aug 28 17:57:19 <Zucca> I think I'll delete every fMMS settings from gconf and add gprs connection by hand.
Aug 28 17:58:13 <Zucca> Wtf...
Aug 28 17:58:51 <Zucca> fMMS choses first wlan connection and tries to download MMSes using it...
Aug 28 18:13:59 <MohammadAG51> skyscraper, wait till I post a new tutorial
Aug 28 18:13:59 <MohammadAG51> Zucca, fmms can't use wlan to dl mms
Aug 28 18:16:47 <SpeedEvil> It'd be nice if it could.
Aug 28 18:16:58 <SpeedEvil> But yes - that's not supported by the network
Aug 28 18:17:18 <red> why do all flashing guides tell me to fully charge the battery?
Aug 28 18:17:29 <red> its not like its gonna end in middle of it
Aug 28 18:17:37 <Venemo> red: because if you flash with an empty battery, dragons will eat you
Aug 28 18:17:55 <red> is just for stupid people who attempt to do it with like 5% power? :P
Aug 28 18:19:53 <Venemo> red: well yeah...
Aug 28 18:20:02 <Venemo> red: anyways, where would you draw the line?
Aug 28 18:20:33 <red> "Make sure not to attempt to flash the phone with less than 1 hour of battery life left" or something
Aug 28 18:20:39 <mikki-kun> flashing takes about 3 mins at max
Aug 28 18:20:51 <Venemo> red: yeah, how can you tell how much is that?
Aug 28 18:20:53 <red> emmc flashing + boot takes a lot
Aug 28 18:20:54 <mikki-kun> so i'd say even with 10% it should be doable, yet risky
Aug 28 18:21:03 <red> i've been at boot screen for ~3 minutes now
Aug 28 18:21:09 <red> plus the flashes itself :)
Aug 28 18:21:13 <red> optifying takes a while
Aug 28 18:21:14 <Venemo> red: it is much easier to understand that "fully charge your battery" than to say "you need to charge your battery so much that it survies for 45 minutes"
Aug 28 18:21:21 <mikki-kun> red: usually me only 3 mins (i flash both when i do it)
Aug 28 18:21:59 <red> normal flash was really fast for me
Aug 28 18:22:03 <mikki-kun> ahhh, yeah, booting... that will take another 3 mins ^^'''
Aug 28 18:22:03 <red> done that once
Aug 28 18:22:13 <red> boot took like 2-3 mins
Aug 28 18:22:19 <red> now its been like 4 f
Aug 28 18:22:25 <red> hopefully nothing went wrong :)
Aug 28 18:22:26 <Venemo> okay, fully charging is not a requirement, but your device will break if it runs out of battery while flashing
Aug 28 18:23:58 <mikki-kun> Venemo: but shouldn't the usb itself also give some charging?
Aug 28 18:24:37 <mikki-kun> i know, maybe not the 1.2A like the charger, yet the 200-300 (i guess it is that much) should be sufficent for that mode
Aug 28 18:24:52 <Venemo> mikki-kun: how do you expect the charging software to work when it is being replaced?
Aug 28 18:26:12 <red> actually last time i flished I recall that the boot screen never continued
Aug 28 18:26:13 <mikki-kun> Venemo: hm... does the bme kill then every input of electricity it gets while replaced?
Aug 28 18:26:26 <red> and i had to take the battery out eventually, put it back in and then it booted fine
Aug 28 18:26:37 <red> flashed* :P
Aug 28 18:26:44 <Venemo> mikki-kun: bme doesn't run when the device is off... and it is off while charging
Aug 28 18:26:45 <mikki-kun> ugh, shouldn't happened Ö.ö
Aug 28 18:26:56 <Stskeeps> it's not off while charging.
Aug 28 18:26:58 <Stskeeps> it's ACTDEAD
Aug 28 18:27:12 <Stskeeps> trust me, the moment there's the least amount of power, nolo starts
Aug 28 18:27:13 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 28 18:27:18 <mikki-kun> Venemo: isn't bme the stuff which is for all the power management responsible?
Aug 28 18:27:27 <Venemo> mikki-kun: it runs on top of the OS
Aug 28 18:27:47 <Venemo> mikki-kun: anyways, this is pointless to argue about :)
Aug 28 18:27:55 <red> nolo?
Aug 28 18:28:27 <mikki-kun> sure it is, but i guess your knowledge exceeds mine so i guess it isn't pointless as i learn some new stuff :)
Aug 28 18:28:53 <mikki-kun> red: bootloader of the n900
Aug 28 18:29:15 <red> it's still displaying the Nokia logo with the USB icon on the right top corner
Aug 28 18:29:22 <red> should I keep waiting or unplug and reboot?
Aug 28 18:29:37 <red> last time that worked but i held my breath x)
Aug 28 18:29:44 <mikki-kun> red: you've done what so far with it?
Aug 28 18:29:59 <red> flashed normal without -R
Aug 28 18:30:05 <red> then flahsed EMMC
Aug 28 18:30:20 <Venemo> red: should work
Aug 28 18:30:22 <red> ah, I still had it mounted
Aug 28 18:30:26 <Venemo> red: afaik
Aug 28 18:30:42 <mikki-kun> mounted? uh, while flashing you don't need it mounted
Aug 28 18:30:49 <red> winblows
Aug 28 18:30:54 <mikki-kun> ugh!
Aug 28 18:31:02 <mikki-kun> my condolences :(
Aug 28 18:31:05 <mikki-kun> ^^
Aug 28 18:31:06 <red> been booting into windows the past month due starcraft 2 :)
Aug 28 18:31:09 <red> usually in linux
Aug 28 18:31:24 <mikki-kun> SC2 via wine not working?
Aug 28 18:31:34 <red> it would work shit if it did
Aug 28 18:31:53 <red> ejecting n900 from my computer made it start booting :)
Aug 28 18:32:35 <red> every directx game loses performance when run from wine
Aug 28 18:32:41 <red> opengl games work great usually :)
Aug 28 18:33:01 <red> better fps than in windows in most apps
Aug 28 18:37:03 <mikki-kun> i hope that directX and openGl will in some way unify... but i guess it will never happen...
Aug 28 18:37:25 <Venemo> red: what distro do you use?
Aug 28 19:01:57 <red> ubuntu :p
Aug 28 19:02:27 <luke-jr> mikki-kun: the whole point of DirectX is to not be OpenGL
Aug 28 19:02:48 <mikki-kun> luke-jr: but i guess dreaming is allowed ;)
Aug 28 19:02:48 <luke-jr> mikki-kun: WINE-DirectX is obviously OpenGL-based
Aug 28 19:02:59 <mikki-kun> better yet directX should die ^^
Aug 28 19:03:03 <luke-jr> right
Aug 28 19:03:14 <luke-jr> WINE-DirectX basically implements the DirectX API on top of OpenGL
Aug 28 19:03:26 <luke-jr> so it's the closest thing to "unify" that is possible
Aug 28 19:03:53 <red> dx is easier to develop with
Aug 28 19:04:04 <Venemo> :D
Aug 28 19:04:07 * luke-jr flames red.
Aug 28 19:04:08 <red> but its also very bloated
Aug 28 19:04:28 <luke-jr> QtOpenGL. nuff said
Aug 28 19:04:28 <red> opengl ftw :)
Aug 28 19:20:06 <DocScrutinizer> mikki-kun: during flashing (or when in flashing mode) N900 doesn't charge
Aug 28 19:20:45 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer: so if i accidently press u while i plug my wall-charger in, will that prevent it from charging? (in case my battery was emptied)
Aug 28 19:20:54 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Aug 28 19:21:43 <mikki-kun> that's a major flaw imo
Aug 28 19:21:51 <SpeedEvil> Umm
Aug 28 19:22:00 <SpeedEvil> Does it respond to U if it detects a charger?
Aug 28 19:22:11 <SpeedEvil> I could check it, but I lack motivation.
Aug 28 19:22:19 <DocScrutinizer> nope, that's a consideration how to make flashing most stable and independent of other factors
Aug 28 19:22:50 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: afaik it does
Aug 28 19:23:12 <ShadowJK> The other argument is that it should always respond to u to make flashing easier
Aug 28 19:23:19 <ShadowJK> because people are sure as hell having trouble with it as is
Aug 28 19:24:08 <mikki-kun> but why did nokia disable access to the rootfs through usb?
Aug 28 19:24:09 <DocScrutinizer> well, matter of fact: NOLO doesn't charge, 'u' is managed by NOLO
Aug 28 19:24:52 <zeltak> hya..ok reflashed the n900 (not the emmc) to check my emulator issues but i have another issue...i get an "application error" in the gui app manager so i cant gain root..anyone seen this before after a fresh flasj?
Aug 28 19:24:55 <zeltak> *flash
Aug 28 19:25:12 <DocScrutinizer> mikki-kun: and rootfs access thru usb is a kernel/system function
Aug 28 19:25:35 <jacekowski> morning
Aug 28 19:25:43 <mikki-kun> so it's just some small switch inside the kernel?!
Aug 28 19:25:44 <jacekowski> geez i wasted whole day
Aug 28 19:25:56 <DocScrutinizer> the kernel needs / to run, so you can't umount it
Aug 28 19:26:03 <jacekowski> not really
Aug 28 19:26:11 <jacekowski> kernel only needs process with id 1 to run
Aug 28 19:26:13 <mikki-kun> i was more talking when the device is off
Aug 28 19:26:15 <jacekowski> pid*
Aug 28 19:26:43 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: and how'd you share samba over usb then, with just init running?
Aug 28 19:26:56 <zeltak> so anyone knows how to gain root inthe xterm wihout the GUI?
Aug 28 19:26:57 <jacekowski> hmm,
Aug 28 19:27:00 <mikki-kun> i don't like that.. e.g. i mess up with one tiny start-script, i need to reflash my whole rootfs :(
Aug 28 19:27:07 <jacekowski> system in tmpfs
Aug 28 19:27:11 <jacekowski> and pivot_root
Aug 28 19:27:16 <DocScrutinizer> zeltak: no way
Aug 28 19:27:19 <jacekowski> so real / would be unmounted
Aug 28 19:27:45 <jacekowski> well, access to rootfs via usb would be possible
Aug 28 19:27:58 <zeltak> thx DocScrutinizer ...shit...so what do i do regarding the application error on the gui app mnager? i got that after a fresh flash?
Aug 28 19:28:05 <jacekowski> like initrd with emergency stuff required to presetn filesystems via usb
Aug 28 19:28:15 <mikki-kun> it would make experimenting less time-consuming if something dies accidently
Aug 28 19:28:21 <DocScrutinizer> zeltak: reflash eMMC
Aug 28 19:28:24 <jacekowski> possible, not to complicated to do
Aug 28 19:28:32 <zeltak> ahhh man..not again :(
Aug 28 19:29:02 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: nolo will wait for usb when you press u during bootup
Aug 28 19:29:11 <DocScrutinizer> zeltak: reflash both , even! you can't reflash eMMC without reflashing rootfs same time
Aug 28 19:29:16 <zeltak> its weird...cant u reflash just the root..why do i always end up needing to reflash the emmc
Aug 28 19:29:19 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: ^
Aug 28 19:29:56 <zeltak> so everytime i reflash one i have to reflash the other..thats sucks..\
Aug 28 19:29:59 <Venemo> re
Aug 28 19:30:04 <mikki-kun> Venemo: wb
Aug 28 19:30:07 <MNZ> hrrmmm I wonder if we can create a rescue system sorta thing
Aug 28 19:30:08 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: ?
Aug 28 19:30:17 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: nolo will wait for usb when you press u during bootup
Aug 28 19:30:18 <MNZ> the rootfs can be repartitioned right?
Aug 28 19:30:20 <SpeedEvil> ah
Aug 28 19:30:20 <GAN900> zeltak, why are you reflashing with any frequency?
Aug 28 19:30:23 <DocScrutinizer> zeltak: usually you can reflash just root. but seems you got a problem with apt cache, and you'll not fix that without reflashing eMMC, or gaining root which you can't
Aug 28 19:30:24 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: you don't need any usb cable connected
Aug 28 19:30:32 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: you just press u and it will wait for usb cable
Aug 28 19:30:57 <SpeedEvil> MNZ: In principle, you can load an arbitrary kernel into RAM and boot it without flashin. So - kernel that knows how to boot off SD, and you're done.
Aug 28 19:31:07 <GAN900> jacekowski, I think you need the cable in
Aug 28 19:31:14 <GAN900> But it'll wait for the FLASHER:
Aug 28 19:31:16 <zeltak> GAN900: first time systme was unbootable..now i have all emulators rebooting my n900 so i wanted a clean start to see if its a hardware issue
Aug 28 19:31:31 <zeltak> oh well...gonna reflash the emmc as well..
Aug 28 19:31:42 <MNZ> SpeedEvil, that would be sweet, so next time I mess up my modules I can just boot up, extract the modules package manually and reboot
Aug 28 19:31:55 <mikki-kun> zeltak: you can still make a backup of your emmc
Aug 28 19:32:01 <mikki-kun> i'd do so if i was you
Aug 28 19:32:31 <zeltak> yeah i know just thought emmc was like a /home on my nix system where i only had to reinstall root each time but i guess it dosent work that way
Aug 28 19:32:35 <SpeedEvil> MNZ: Something that could boot not regardingany of the inbuilt flash, and do backup/restrore/checkpount would be nice.
Aug 28 19:32:39 <mikki-kun> hm, i don't know how difficult that would be but i think it would be nice if somebody could implement that
Aug 28 19:33:19 <MNZ> SpeedEvil, my next project probably
Aug 28 19:33:48 <mikki-kun> zeltak: what nokia made with maemo is imo disgusting >.< i typed "shutdown -h now" as root and it was like "did you input something? *after a minute* i guess i get something, hang on..."
Aug 28 19:34:17 <Venemo> mikki-kun: wtf?
Aug 28 19:34:53 <mikki-kun> Venemo: yeah, dunno what was going on, i tried then with the power-button menu... it didn't even come up...
Aug 28 19:35:10 <mikki-kun> i even went shortly for it to recognize from my base 600 to 900
Aug 28 19:35:20 <Venemo> mikki-kun: for me, long pressing the power key always takes care of this in seconds
Aug 28 19:35:21 <mikki-kun> i decided to just kill it
Aug 28 19:35:33 <mikki-kun> Venemo: i was being nice and just made the short press
Aug 28 19:35:40 <Venemo> mikki-kun: ah.
Aug 28 19:35:45 <mikki-kun> so i can get the option "shutdown device"
Aug 28 19:36:04 <mikki-kun> but then i decided to just press it longer
Aug 28 19:36:40 <Venemo> :D
Aug 28 19:36:46 <mikki-kun> btw, with meego coming out all the software and drivers of it will be OSS, right?
Aug 28 19:36:57 <Venemo> mikki-kun: not all of them
Aug 28 19:37:01 <mikki-kun> :(
Aug 28 19:37:03 <Venemo> mikki-kun: ask Stskeeps, he's expert
Aug 28 19:37:33 <mikki-kun> it's really... unhelpful for the community of stuff is kept closed :(
Aug 28 19:37:53 <mikki-kun> s/of/if
Aug 28 19:39:16 <mikki-kun> jacekowski: btw, how can segfaults and floating point exceptions be triggered? i had that recently with uhm... fennec-v2_alpha and asciiportal
Aug 28 19:39:29 <DocScrutinizer> mikki-kun: s/shutdown -h/init 0/
Aug 28 19:39:36 <DocScrutinizer> instant shutdown
Aug 28 19:39:52 <mikki-kun> i guess not the healthy one
Aug 28 19:40:02 <mikki-kun> like using kill -9 instead of kill -15
Aug 28 19:40:36 <DocScrutinizer> the problem is if you want all the swapped out apps to quit gracefully - possibly even with saving project files and shit
Aug 28 19:41:18 <mikki-kun> hm, won't the swap clean itself every reboot?
Aug 28 19:41:30 <DocScrutinizer> sure it will
Aug 28 19:42:15 <mikki-kun> ahhh, i understood it empties the swap as well on shutdown
Aug 28 19:43:05 <DocScrutinizer> no it just makes all the apps to *run* which implies a lot of swaping in pages for each app, if you're unlucky
Aug 28 19:43:14 <mikki-kun> man, but diff is really a wonderful tool... "diff -ru $DIR_1 $DIR_2" and i know which files i need to copy over for the backup :)
Aug 28 19:43:41 <mikhas> mikki-kun, you're doing it wrong - use rsycn ;-)
Aug 28 19:43:49 <mikhas> rsync even
Aug 28 19:43:50 <mikki-kun> mikhas: too lazy to set it up
Aug 28 19:43:55 <mikhas> nothing to set up
Aug 28 19:43:55 <mikki-kun> ^^
Aug 28 19:44:24 <jacekowski> mikki-kun: loads of reasons
Aug 28 19:44:27 <mikhas> "rsync -avr origin target" (and can work through ssh)
Aug 28 19:44:38 <mikki-kun> -avr... thanks :)
Aug 28 19:44:43 <jacekowski> mikki-kun: poorly written apps in 99% of cases
Aug 28 19:44:45 <mikki-kun> i'll remember that option
Aug 28 19:44:58 <jacekowski> mikki-kun: and memory/cpu problems in 1% of cases
Aug 28 19:45:18 <mikki-kun> jacekowski: hm, maybe the high temps here in TH didn't do it any good
Aug 28 19:45:21 <jacekowski> mikki-kun: but if you OC then it's more likely that it's memory problem
Aug 28 19:45:22 <DocScrutinizer> mikki-kun: how would you make it delete files from target which are missing on source?
Aug 28 19:45:51 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer: hu? with the diff-method?
Aug 28 19:45:56 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: that's default
Aug 28 19:46:01 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: to delete missing files
Aug 28 19:46:07 <mikki-kun> i'd kill them manually
Aug 28 19:46:12 <DocScrutinizer> err sorry, mikhas
Aug 28 19:46:18 <mikki-kun> ahhh, ok ^^
Aug 28 19:46:20 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: hmm
Aug 28 19:46:22 <jacekowski> or --delete
Aug 28 19:46:28 <jacekowski> hmm, yeah
Aug 28 19:46:30 <jacekowski> --delete
Aug 28 19:47:23 <DocScrutinizer> anybody ever took notice of mc fish fs?
Aug 28 19:47:43 <mikki-kun> mikhas: thanks for that really :) one step closer of setting up cronjobs with rsync then (when i have my server then for my file backups) :)
Aug 28 19:47:50 <DocScrutinizer> freakin haccker stuff, really :-D
Aug 28 19:47:50 <jacekowski> i use it sometimes
Aug 28 19:47:54 <zeltak> DocScrutinizer: i use it all the time
Aug 28 19:48:47 <mikhas> mikki-kun, hm - I think I have some old scripts that were for that
Aug 28 19:48:56 <DocScrutinizer> well, I tried it but had to appreciate there's no rsh on N900 maemo
Aug 28 19:49:02 <mikki-kun> jacekowski: how can i check my mem on the n900 and possibly the cpu? i had here really sometimes like 50°C inside of my device :( mostly happening lately while charging and having the screen on
Aug 28 19:49:08 <mikhas> I even had one that would create snapshots via rsync, and make clever use of symlinks to save space
Aug 28 19:49:27 <jacekowski> mikki-kun: have you overclocked?
Aug 28 19:49:46 <Zucca> \o/ Finally got fMMS working. Serious gconftool usage was required. But now everything works. Thank you me.
Aug 28 19:50:11 <Stskeeps> mikhas: meego(.com) n900 port would have very few blobs (3d accelerator, battery management), and they would be redistributable for non-commercial usage
Aug 28 19:50:22 <DocScrutinizer> mikki-kun: 50°C? forget it, not the least problem
Aug 28 19:50:44 <skyscraper> MohammadAG51: when you'll write a tutorial? and wthout r&d?
Aug 28 19:51:14 <mikki-kun> jacekowski: at some point i was too curious to see the results so yeah i did, but now i have it mostly running on 600 (at times when i see major slowdowns i will make some light OC and immediatly after change back when it is fluent again)
Aug 28 19:51:49 <mikki-kun> Zucca: congrats :)
Aug 28 19:51:49 <jacekowski> and it happens only on fennec?>
Aug 28 19:52:34 <mikki-kun> uhhh, fennec v2_alpha (segfault) and on asciiportal (game in the repos; extras-devel; flop error)
Aug 28 19:53:06 <DocScrutinizer> mikki-kun: you're the first one to pass DocScrutinizer's OC-fools test and earn the certificate "licence to OC" :-D
Aug 28 19:53:33 <mikki-kun> but on other stuff it seems to work flawlessly... though i am not sure what makes blessn900 distort the results so messy
Aug 28 19:54:03 <jacekowski> should we have a party
Aug 28 19:54:19 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer: hu, how come? just cause i use the console in executing the files and seeing immediatly after the execution those errors?
Aug 28 19:54:22 <mikki-kun> ^^
Aug 28 19:55:12 <DocScrutinizer> mikki-kun: it's due to the fact you're offering a sane rationale about how to OC
Aug 28 19:55:51 <jacekowski> well, if i would OC it would be just because i like speed
Aug 28 19:56:43 <mikki-kun> what for do i need my device running at 1.1 (not 1.15, doesn't work, dunno why, was curious what the max was and ended with 1.1 therefore) all the time when it works with 600 as well good enough... the 1.1 sucks my battery in no time dry
Aug 28 19:56:43 <jacekowski> i would have to try that excuse with a police if i ever get caught
Aug 28 19:57:17 <skyscraper> MohammadAG: when you'll write a tutorial? and wthout r&d?
Aug 28 19:57:29 <mikki-kun> and i guess the guys at TI had a reason saying it is only made for 600
Aug 28 19:57:51 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: if you were to consider when to fire one of your 4 solid matter fuel rocket boosters to enjoy speed, and you'd know after #4 you probably have to press the car to a cube...
Aug 28 19:58:16 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: I'd like to see what you're doing with your love for speed then
Aug 28 19:58:19 <Zucca> Anyone succeeded on inserting alt key to maemo terminal?
Aug 28 19:58:51 <mikki-kun> Zucca: i think the FN was considered alt (correct me if i am wrong guys)
Aug 28 19:59:12 <jacekowski> i recently had very unpleasant situation at ~40mph
Aug 28 19:59:13 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer: btw i am honored to be the first to pass your test :)
Aug 28 19:59:22 <jacekowski> i saw one bloke on bike overtaking me
Aug 28 19:59:41 <jacekowski> on A class road with dual carriageway
Aug 28 19:59:51 <jacekowski> but it was raining and traffic in left lane was slow
Aug 28 20:00:11 <jacekowski> and there was another biker still behind me
Aug 28 20:00:24 <jacekowski> so i was waiting
Aug 28 20:00:25 <Zucca> mikki-kun: I just addad 'alt' with gconf.
Aug 28 20:00:31 <jacekowski> and when i decided to change lane
Aug 28 20:00:41 <jacekowski> i checked if he's still behing me
Aug 28 20:00:43 <Zucca> Now there's alt, but it has no effect.
Aug 28 20:00:45 <jacekowski> behind me*
Aug 28 20:00:47 <jacekowski> indicated
Aug 28 20:00:52 <DocScrutinizer> mikki-kun: (TI had reason) if you're interested, /query infobot , type 'omap-oc'
Aug 28 20:01:01 <jacekowski> and slowly moved to right line
Aug 28 20:01:10 <jacekowski> and at that point he disappeared
Aug 28 20:01:13 <mikki-kun> ohhh, seems i either understood it then wrong or my mind switched some facts
Aug 28 20:01:39 <mikki-kun> thanks DocScrutinizer, just did so
Aug 28 20:01:53 <jacekowski> as it worked out he decided to accelerate and go in between lanes
Aug 28 20:02:26 <jacekowski> seriously, how stupid you have to be to do something like that
Aug 28 20:02:28 <jacekowski> during rain
Aug 28 20:02:49 <GAN900> jacekowski, well, he was on a bike.
Aug 28 20:03:02 <GAN900> aka, organdonormobile
Aug 28 20:03:10 <jacekowski> people that want to drive bike should have compulsory IQ test
Aug 28 20:04:36 <skyscraper> MohammadAG are you there?
Aug 28 20:05:00 <MohammadAG> sighh
Aug 28 20:05:18 <skyscraper> i need a howto for your new ubuntu^^
Aug 28 20:05:20 <MohammadAG> busy fixing router with openwrt
Aug 28 20:05:23 <skyscraper> hm
Aug 28 20:06:07 <skyscraper> have done all like in the old how-to ... and tried to boot (without r&d) - wont boot.. - is r&d needed, in this version, too?
Aug 28 20:07:15 <skyscraper> MohammadAG
Aug 28 20:09:21 <DocScrutinizer> skyscraper: at least it's painless and easily revertible when you just try with R&D
Aug 28 20:10:14 <skyscraper> DocScrutinizer: i'm afraid activating R&D.... only did it one time and there was so much information on screen xD
Aug 28 20:10:14 <mikki-kun> hm, nice stuff to read :)
Aug 28 20:10:16 <MohammadAG> yes
Aug 28 20:10:32 <skyscraper> MohammadAG: so R&D enable would help?
Aug 28 20:10:57 <MohammadAG> it won't "help", it's a requirement
Aug 28 20:11:06 <skyscraper> okay xD
Aug 28 20:11:06 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer: btw, my first thought when i used kernel-power was when switching to "ideal" 'uhm, wtf?! i don't want to OC!'
Aug 28 20:11:27 <skyscraper> is it true that i cant set R&D with windows-flasher3.5
Aug 28 20:12:23 <mikki-kun> i just want lower voltages... from my humble fast tests till now i can't say though if it consumes more or less mAs... it kinda seems to be on a lvl of ±5% i guess
Aug 28 20:15:50 <MNZ> You know we need a wiki page listing every known thing that can be optimized in maemo. Someone start it and devs will eventually add stuff.
Aug 28 20:16:01 <mikki-kun> but i found one funny thing... it happens when i am using microB and watching youtube-vids and want to also see some details (meaning i use the 480p version when available and in fullscreen; that usually needs a faster clockspeed, like 750 or 900, depening on the content as it looks) it seems to bring microB at times into an infinite refresh-loop of that page...
Aug 28 20:16:42 <MNZ> Though for some reason I feel even when/if things run faster people will still OC
Aug 28 20:16:54 <MNZ> Regardless, someone start that wiki page!
Aug 28 20:17:12 <mikki-kun> first i thought my voltages are too low and went with adding one additional notch to that freq and reloading the file but i suspect some 'routing-issue' inside the hardware, either stuff goes too fast or i dunno (not a pro in that)
Aug 28 20:17:15 <ShadowJK> devs use wikis?
Aug 28 20:17:22 <ShadowJK> ... devs use web browsers?
Aug 28 20:17:58 <mikki-kun> MNZ: OC'ing just pretends you are being 1337
Aug 28 20:18:13 <pyther> Hi
Aug 28 20:18:28 <pyther> Is there a web browser that won't refresh the page unless if something changed?
Aug 28 20:18:46 <mikki-kun> everybody can install power-kernel reboot, kernel-config load ideal and there he goes...
Aug 28 20:18:58 <mikki-kun> the real challenge lies in understanding how it is really done
Aug 28 20:19:15 <pyther> I'm using the anyremote web ui and it loads something like http://tux.lan:5000/8.key will no new code get returned, making it silly and time consuming to refresh the page
Aug 28 20:20:00 <ShadowJK> so you wamt to look if something is new without looking if something is new :D
Aug 28 20:20:02 <mikki-kun> pyther: hm, how do you mean? you are on that webpage and microB refreshes after some time the page itself?
Aug 28 20:21:04 <pyther> mikki-kun: no I'm on http://localhost:5550/ I then click on a link for http://localhost:5550/key.6 this sends data to the http server, but no new data is being returned to the client (microb)
Aug 28 20:21:12 <mikki-kun> ShadowJK: i guess 'possible', like having a port open to the webpage and it then sends if some new stuff has appeared a 'refresh me' command
Aug 28 20:21:44 <ShadowJK> http doesn't have that
Aug 28 20:22:18 <pyther> well firefox works pretty well because it looks at what is returned vs what is loaded
Aug 28 20:22:22 <MNZ> ShadowJK, actually it does :D Content-expiry
Aug 28 20:22:24 <pyther> firefox is just kinda chunky :P
Aug 28 20:22:25 <MNZ> no wait
Aug 28 20:22:32 <MNZ> wrong header
Aug 28 20:22:54 <mikki-kun> ShadowJK: hm, how does the google-mail webinterface work then? i had it once idle and out of the blue it told me "please refresh me, new message arrived" (in a small infobox on the bottom right)
Aug 28 20:22:58 <ShadowJK> sure, but it has to predict into future when new stuff happens :)
Aug 28 20:23:10 <MNZ> anywho, a browser plugin that checks the last-modified on the page every few seconds and refreshes page if it changed
Aug 28 20:23:13 <korhojoa> mikki-kun: that's ajax
Aug 28 20:23:46 <ShadowJK> mikki-kun, there's a jabascript reloading a page at regular intervals to check for new stuff
Aug 28 20:24:04 <korhojoa> isn't that what i just said?
Aug 28 20:24:05 <mikki-kun> i've heard some stuff about that, but tbh i know as much about it as mankind knows about the billionth galaxy ^^
Aug 28 20:24:10 <korhojoa> (implied)
Aug 28 20:24:22 <pyther> I guess I'll just use firefox for the time being
Aug 28 20:24:23 <korhojoa> asynchronous javascript and xml
Aug 28 20:24:39 <ShadowJK> oh so that's what it stands for
Aug 28 20:25:32 <mikki-kun> ahh, that makes stuff a bit more understandable *rephrasing 'billionth galaxy' to 'our solar system'*
Aug 28 20:25:41 <ShadowJK> I thought it meant "please make my browser's progress bar useless, and please silently hide all network failures from me and just silently fail, and also make my browser unresponsive kthx" :)
Aug 28 20:26:03 <mikki-kun> ShadowJK: not 'kthxbai'? ^^
Aug 28 20:26:22 <MNZ> Night folks. Toodles!
Aug 28 20:26:24 <ShadowJK> pyther, oh so now you're implying your original question was something else entirely
Aug 28 20:26:37 <ShadowJK> since firefox/whatever has to do the exact same thing
Aug 28 20:26:43 <pyther> well yes, kinda
Aug 28 20:27:10 <pyther> I'm not sure how to explain it but with firefox it goes to the link I click on without reloading the page
Aug 28 20:27:12 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer: just out of curiosity, have you played around with changing the clockspeed of your n900?
Aug 28 20:27:19 <pyther> since the link I click on just sends data to the web server
Aug 28 20:27:25 <pyther> I don't have a good example :(
Aug 28 20:28:03 <ShadowJK> I'm pretty sure microb and fennec make the exact same request when you click a link
Aug 28 20:28:15 <ShadowJK> (ok user-agent would be different)
Aug 28 20:28:48 <mikki-kun> ShadowJK: aren't the two actually using the same engine?
Aug 28 20:28:57 <ShadowJK> yeah.
Aug 28 20:29:20 <ShadowJK> different versions probably
Aug 28 20:29:39 <mikki-kun> wouldn't that then mean they are kind of having 99% similiarties in how they ask stuff and work "invisible" from the user
Aug 28 20:30:05 <ShadowJK> And the front-ends are totally different, so whatever they display on screen is going to be whatever, probbly osmething random
Aug 28 20:30:42 <skyscraper> MohammadAG51: works nice!
Aug 28 20:30:52 <mikki-kun> ShadowJK: i guess when the v2 beta arrives of fennec it will have a smoother ui than microB
Aug 28 20:32:12 <mikki-kun> would love to try v2 but that segfault -.-
Aug 28 20:32:42 <ShadowJK> Funny that, I'm not sure I remember any examples of software getting leaner and faster with "upgrades" :)
Aug 28 20:32:46 <mikki-kun> will try again after the reflash on stock kernel
Aug 28 20:34:55 <mikki-kun> i read somewhere it will have running three independant threads then with each handling one specific major component
Aug 28 20:35:25 <mikki-kun> like one taking care of the UI, the other for the rendering and then the last one for the actual browser
Aug 28 20:35:37 <mikki-kun> will use more ressources though i guess
Aug 28 20:36:06 <mikki-kun> ShadowJK: here are the features listed to some degree http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/08/13/status-update-firefox-for-mobile-fennec-2-edges-closer-to-alpha-gets-more-stable-brings-new-features/
Aug 28 20:41:45 <mikki-kun> how do you think of that idea?
Aug 28 20:42:27 <ShadowJK> microb has two threads btw :P
Aug 28 20:43:40 <ShadowJK> I'm pessimistic overall..
Aug 28 20:44:34 <ShadowJK> I mean, nomatter how fast they make the browser, and the lengths they go to to accomplish that are simply amazing, the end-user experience isn't improving much at all
Aug 28 20:46:25 <ShadowJK> because webmasters make sure as soon as browsers load their page at non-aggravatingly-slow speeds, they add more and more shit, crap and bloat to ensure users have an optimized experience of getting pissed off.
Aug 28 20:46:57 <mikki-kun> in that case i'd just stop using their page
Aug 28 20:47:03 <mikki-kun> or juse elinks
Aug 28 20:47:05 <mikki-kun> *use
Aug 28 20:47:16 <ShadowJK> but everyone does it!
Aug 28 20:47:20 <mikki-kun> sorry, seems i am having some massive caffeine-defficite lately
Aug 28 20:47:35 <mikki-kun> ShadowJK: google.com so far not :)
Aug 28 20:47:49 <mikki-kun> and about:blank loads as fast as always XD
Aug 28 20:47:55 <ShadowJK> they added the fade-in crap..
Aug 28 20:48:37 <mikki-kun> i actually like it to some degree
Aug 28 20:48:48 <mikki-kun> not like hating it, makes the page clean
Aug 28 20:48:50 <ShadowJK> sure it looks nice and whatever
Aug 28 20:49:15 <ShadowJK> I just don't like that it manages to slowdown a quad core computer
Aug 28 20:49:23 <mikki-kun> what?! :o
Aug 28 20:49:26 <ShadowJK> not to mention n900
Aug 28 20:49:39 <mikki-kun> my atom loads that page nicely
Aug 28 20:49:41 <ShadowJK> where the impact is even more disturbing
Aug 28 20:49:42 <mikki-kun> n280
Aug 28 20:50:19 <ShadowJK> Sometimes when looking for rare/esoteric information, I come across websites that haven't been touched since 1999
Aug 28 20:50:28 <ShadowJK> and man, they're /fast/
Aug 28 20:50:57 <ShadowJK> like, you click something and you don't even have time to alt-tab away before it loads and renders
Aug 28 20:51:03 <ShadowJK> it's like, instant!
Aug 28 20:51:28 <ShadowJK> not having to wait for content to appear, that's so bloody awesome
Aug 28 20:51:30 <mikki-kun> seems mankind forgot about efficiency and thinks it's important to have eyecandy
Aug 28 20:52:05 <mikki-kun> that's the reason apple sells like billions of efficient-unfriendly stuff
Aug 28 20:52:12 <mikki-kun> like e.g. itunes
Aug 28 20:52:26 <mikki-kun> i have for that mpd and ncmpcpp and gtk-pod if needed for ipod-sync
Aug 28 20:53:44 <ShadowJK> i don't have a computer capable of running itunes, so..
Aug 28 20:54:02 <mikki-kun> if i would kill my browser (conkeror, emacs-like webbrowser, built onto xulrunner) i could run my box on 256 ram ^^
Aug 28 20:54:59 <ShadowJK> firefox on my desktop is like 1.5g rss :)
Aug 28 20:55:17 <mikki-kun> 1.5g rss?
Aug 28 20:55:29 <ShadowJK> 1.5gig memory use
Aug 28 20:55:34 <mikki-kun> Ö.ö
Aug 28 20:56:01 <mikki-kun> 1.5gig?! if my conkeror runs like 400MB i kill it and restart it
Aug 28 20:56:09 <mikki-kun> that is insane :o
Aug 28 20:56:27 <ShadowJK> well I have 8
Aug 28 20:56:48 <jacekowski> my opera uses 200M at most
Aug 28 20:58:02 <mikki-kun> hm, i have 2, so maybe explains why you don't mind that much ^^
Aug 28 20:58:55 <ShadowJK> biggest problem is I stopped using bookmarks sometimes after opera invented tabbed browsing, and the point when websites became unusable with javascript & css switched off..
Aug 28 20:58:56 <mikki-kun> but are there tools for the n900 which can check it's mem and cpu?
Aug 28 21:00:03 <tank-man> top and free
Aug 28 21:00:08 <ShadowJK> and instead use tabs as bookmarks, because then it only takes .5 sec to display a web page instead of 5-60sec via a bookmark :)
Aug 28 21:00:35 <mikki-kun> tank-man: i meant for testing if they are still working properly like memtest86+
Aug 28 21:01:31 <mikki-kun> and btw i think top isn't that userfriendly, i use htop in that case
Aug 28 21:06:10 <BCMM> why won't my enter key work in scratchbox?
Aug 28 21:06:23 <BCMM> sorry, in the xephyr window
Aug 28 21:07:29 <mikki-kun> BCMM: the enter of the n900?
Aug 28 21:07:39 <BCMM> mikki-kun: no
Aug 28 21:07:57 <BCMM> i'm running the maemo UI in a Xephyr window on my desktop using Scratchbox
Aug 28 21:07:58 <mikki-kun> ok, then i am unknowing ^^
Aug 28 21:09:21 <BCMM> and it doesn't seem to recognise the enter key at all
Aug 28 21:13:13 <kerio> ^j
Aug 28 21:51:28 <rtyler> anybody have a howto they've found for syncing a remote calendar to maemo5?
Aug 28 21:51:34 * rtyler uses yahoo for calendaring
Aug 28 21:51:52 * kerio doesn't have anything to do anyway
Aug 28 22:12:32 <lcuk> ShadowJK, wrong way round
Aug 28 22:12:52 <lcuk> optimisations comes by changing that fullscreen BMP to a jpeg on the day it goes live
Aug 28 22:14:30 <crashanddie> I can't figure out if this is supposed to be an advert for mcdonalds or valentines: http://asianposes.com/img/posts/heart%20shape%20park%20hyun%20sun%20fail.jpg
Aug 28 22:15:18 <lcuk> crashanddie, the animated gifs have them winking and moving back forwards
Aug 28 23:01:24 <pyther> hmm... I wonder if I will be able to build a static mplayer
Aug 28 23:01:37 <pyther> just need the audio stuff no video features
Aug 29 00:09:07 <pyther> Can someone help me get the SDK running?
Aug 29 00:09:13 <pyther> I keep getting /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set
Aug 29 00:16:11 <FIQ|n900> what is the system-wide .bashrc and where is it?
Aug 29 00:17:03 <BugBlue> /etc/bashrc :
Aug 29 00:28:36 <pyther> Does anyone have any good guides on getting started with the SDK
Aug 29 00:30:57 <MohammadAG> ~maemosdk
Aug 29 00:30:57 <infobot> from memory, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation
Aug 29 00:35:59 <Venemo> I tried to install the SDK
Aug 29 00:36:04 <Venemo> this is the result: http://pastebin.com/bF0k7SgD
Aug 29 00:36:07 <Venemo> could anyone help me?
Aug 29 00:36:45 <MohammadAG> 64 bit
Aug 29 00:36:47 <MohammadAG> am i right?
Aug 29 00:37:02 <Venemo> yes.
Aug 29 00:37:07 <MohammadAG> add vdso32=0 to the kernel parameters in grub and reboot
Aug 29 00:37:09 <Venemo> Fedora 13 x86_64
Aug 29 00:37:12 <MohammadAG> hmm
Aug 29 00:37:16 <MohammadAG> whatever fedora uses then
Aug 29 00:37:32 <MohammadAG> add vdso32=0 to kernel parameters
Aug 29 00:37:37 <Venemo> okay
Aug 29 00:38:01 <Venemo> it is /etc/grub.conf
Aug 29 00:39:12 <Venemo> okay, I'll reboot
Aug 29 00:43:43 <pyther> How can I switch to the arm environment in the SDK?
Aug 29 00:45:20 <MohammadAG> pyther, sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL
Aug 29 00:45:31 <MohammadAG> Venemo, assuming it worked?
Aug 29 00:46:14 <pyther> MohammadAG: what should I answer when it asks me all the other questions?
Aug 29 00:46:20 <Venemo> MohammadAG: it booted :)
Aug 29 00:46:31 <MohammadAG> pyther, what all other questions?
Aug 29 00:46:32 <Venemo> MohammadAG: now the SDK is installing itself again
Aug 29 00:46:42 <MohammadAG> Venemo, btw
Aug 29 00:46:48 <MohammadAG> I suggest when the SDK installs fully
Aug 29 00:46:50 <MohammadAG> successfully
Aug 29 00:46:57 <MohammadAG> you make backups of all packages
Aug 29 00:47:01 <MohammadAG> makes reinstallations easier
Aug 29 00:47:16 <pyther> I'm reinstalling, but it asked me about downloading some stuff and something about debian etch and lenny
Aug 29 00:47:17 <Venemo> MohammadAG: okay, how do I do that?
Aug 29 00:47:27 <MohammadAG> not sure how it runs on fedora, but scratchbox packages get downloaded to /tmp
Aug 29 00:47:28 <pyther> ^^ I second that question
Aug 29 00:48:11 <Venemo> MohammadAG: I'm still a Linux noob, so I just use the GUI tool for now
Aug 29 00:48:21 <MohammadAG> hmm
Aug 29 00:48:24 <MohammadAG> check /tmp
Aug 29 00:48:36 <Venemo> MohammadAG: so, if I save those packages from /tmp, then it doesn't have to redownload?
Aug 29 00:48:44 <MohammadAG> yes, just use -c
Aug 29 00:48:52 <MohammadAG> the GUI sucks btw :P
Aug 29 00:49:00 <Venemo> MohammadAG: :D
Aug 29 00:49:01 <MohammadAG> as for maemo related stuff
Aug 29 00:49:13 <pyther> 1.2M	/tmp/
Aug 29 00:49:19 <MohammadAG> the rootstrap is in /scratchbox/users/$user/home/$user/
Aug 29 00:49:23 <pyther> I don't think the packages are stored in tmp :P
Aug 29 00:49:24 <MohammadAG> rootstraps actually
Aug 29 00:49:34 <MohammadAG> heh, they are on debian/ubuntu :P
Aug 29 00:49:45 <pyther> MohammadAG: I am on Ubuntu 10.04
Aug 29 00:49:50 <MohammadAG> hmm, rebooted?
Aug 29 00:49:57 <MohammadAG> use the -F option
Aug 29 00:49:59 <pyther> no the installer is still running
Aug 29 00:50:07 <MohammadAG> well
Aug 29 00:50:18 <Venemo> MohammadAG: there are a bunch of .tar.gz's in /tmp, indeed
Aug 29 00:50:25 <MohammadAG> search for scratchbox-core_1.0.16_i386.deb
Aug 29 00:50:56 <MohammadAG> mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~/Documents/PR1.2 SDK$ ls * |wc -l
Aug 29 00:50:56 <MohammadAG> 3129
Aug 29 00:51:40 <pyther> /var/cache/apt/archives/scratchbox-core_1.0.16_i386.deb
Aug 29 00:51:48 <MohammadAG> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Hv1nZ3Fs
Aug 29 00:52:16 <Venemo> MohammadAG: I have scratchbox-devkit-blah-blah.tar.gz's
Aug 29 00:52:31 <Venemo> MohammadAG: lots of 'em
Aug 29 00:52:37 <MohammadAG> Venemo, about 10?
Aug 29 00:52:49 <MohammadAG> 12 actually
Aug 29 00:52:53 <Venemo> yes, 12
Aug 29 00:53:23 <MohammadAG> cp them somewhere, then cp them back to /tmp and use -c to resume
Aug 29 00:53:32 <Venemo> -c ?
Aug 29 00:53:41 <MohammadAG> script parameter
Aug 29 00:53:46 <MohammadAG> not available on GUI afaik
Aug 29 00:54:11 <MohammadAG> 	-c	Use existing downloads, don't try to download again.
Aug 29 00:54:30 <teilzeitstudent> is scratchbox still the supported SDK by upstream?
Aug 29 00:54:53 <teilzeitstudent> Just curious~
Aug 29 00:55:07 <Venemo> MohammadAG: this is a parameter for the installer, right?
Aug 29 00:55:27 <MohammadAG> yes, the terminal based one
Aug 29 00:55:36 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: yes, considering that MADDE is still incomplete
Aug 29 00:55:43 <Venemo> MohammadAG: ah, okay
Aug 29 00:55:54 <Venemo> MohammadAG: apart from this 12, there are no other packages?
Aug 29 00:56:07 <MohammadAG> Venemo, see my pastebin link above :P
Aug 29 00:56:40 <Venemo> MohammadAG: I have no .debs
Aug 29 00:56:44 <pyther> MohammadAG: I run sb-menu correct?
Aug 29 00:56:58 <MohammadAG> I guess so
Aug 29 00:57:07 <MohammadAG> Venemo, you will, once you start installing the maemo specific crap
Aug 29 00:57:08 <teilzeitstudent> Venemo, well, I'm not using debian and I had a lot of problems with scratchbox.. MADDE (and that nokia sdk beta thingy) caused me no heachache at all
Aug 29 00:57:14 <pyther> oh wait you said I want sb-conf
Aug 29 00:57:30 <MohammadAG> the debs go in /scratchbox/users/$user/targets/FREMANTLE_$ARCH/var/cache/apt/archives
Aug 29 00:57:36 <pyther> so using sb-conf how do I tell it I want arm?
Aug 29 00:57:38 <MohammadAG> ARCH can be X86 or ARMEL
Aug 29 00:57:48 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: I haven't tried Scratchbox yet, but if it's a pain in the ass, I'll uninstall it
Aug 29 00:57:48 <MohammadAG> sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL
Aug 29 00:57:57 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: to date, I have always used MADDE
Aug 29 00:58:08 <MohammadAG> it's not a pita :P
Aug 29 00:58:10 <MohammadAG> but hey
Aug 29 00:58:12 <MohammadAG> one suggestion
Aug 29 00:58:28 <MohammadAG> remove bind mounts before rm -rf'ing /scratchbox
Aug 29 00:58:40 <MohammadAG> I killed my server remotely cause of that
Aug 29 00:58:47 <MohammadAG> (/dev is binded there)
Aug 29 00:58:52 <Venemo> I will ask before trying
Aug 29 00:58:55 <teilzeitstudent> same here lol
Aug 29 00:59:09 <teilzeitstudent> Actually, it was my notebook :<
Aug 29 00:59:11 <pyther> MohammadAG: and now I can start building my package/
Aug 29 00:59:15 <Venemo> anyways, SELinux started complaining :D
Aug 29 00:59:29 <Venemo> lucky me, I did set it to permissive mode
Aug 29 01:01:03 <teilzeitstudent> Venemo, which graphic card & drivers do you use? And what fps (roughly) do you get? When using MADDE (or scratchbox, for that matter) my CPU is going at like 50% all the time, even if I do not do anything
Aug 29 01:01:04 <Venemo> hm, it now gets stuff from repository.maemo.org
Aug 29 01:01:19 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: hard to tell.
Aug 29 01:01:29 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: on Windows, it works flawlessly
Aug 29 01:01:40 <teilzeitstudent> does your windows show the CPU load?
Aug 29 01:01:41 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: on Fedora, I have tried, but didn't work with it much
Aug 29 01:01:59 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: yes, but I haven't really checked. It works very smoothly though
Aug 29 01:02:11 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: I haven't noticed any differences on Linux, either
Aug 29 01:02:25 <teilzeitstudent> hmm. which gfx card do you have?
Aug 29 01:02:41 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: GeForce GT 240M, but I doubt it matters
Aug 29 01:02:43 <pyther> Hmm I can't seem to get af-sb-init.sh start to work
Aug 29 01:03:02 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: the GPU doesn't really participate in compilation afaik :P
Aug 29 01:03:19 <pyther> /usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 2: qemu:: command not found
Aug 29 01:03:20 <MohammadAG> pyther, switch to X86
Aug 29 01:03:23 <MohammadAG> hmm
Aug 29 01:03:26 <MohammadAG> broken install
Aug 29 01:03:53 <pyther> MohammadAG: so I can't test out my arm apps?
Aug 29 01:04:11 <MohammadAG> not on Xephyr
Aug 29 01:04:58 <teilzeitstudent> Venemo, compilation no. But running stuff matters. I cant run vmware either. both are, afaik, trying to grab some native hardware mode thingy which does not work with those crappy ATI drivers
Aug 29 01:05:15 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: I run my apps directly on my N900
Aug 29 01:05:28 <pyther> MohammadAG: sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first
Aug 29 01:05:36 <pyther> I'm pretty sure I only have one season going though :-/
Aug 29 01:05:37 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: it is the fastest way of testing
Aug 29 01:05:43 <teilzeitstudent> Venemo, so.. you compile in scratchbox (console style), then run them nativly?
Aug 29 01:05:50 <MohammadAG> pyther, open sb-menu and hit the last option
Aug 29 01:05:57 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: no.
Aug 29 01:06:05 <MohammadAG> actually
Aug 29 01:06:09 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: as I said, I have never used Scratchbox before
Aug 29 01:06:11 <teilzeitstudent> ah right.. madde?
Aug 29 01:06:15 <MohammadAG> the GPU can't be used on scratchbox
Aug 29 01:06:19 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: just trying it now for the first time
Aug 29 01:06:26 <MohammadAG> hildon-desktop runs unaccelerated for example
Aug 29 01:06:37 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: I did set up Nokia Qt SDK
Aug 29 01:06:46 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: I press a button in Qt Creator
Aug 29 01:06:54 <teilzeitstudent> Venemo, if you are trying scratchbox.. I'm sorry to hear xD
Aug 29 01:06:55 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: and the app launches on the device in a few seconds
Aug 29 01:07:11 <pyther> Is there anyway to see my mouse in Xephyr?
Aug 29 01:07:12 <teilzeitstudent> Yea, the nokia SDK is awesome.. compared to what I saw before
Aug 29 01:07:15 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: well, I need to see it before judging it :P
Aug 29 01:07:50 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: anyways, Nokia Qt SDK (which in turn uses MADDE) works very well
Aug 29 01:08:05 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: its only problem is the lack of ability to install 3rd party packages
Aug 29 01:08:28 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: but even that can be worked around :)
Aug 29 01:08:43 <lcukn900> venemo do dee how it handles them and try adding custom ones?
Aug 29 01:08:46 <teilzeitstudent> I first had to install MADDE manually, via some obscure console stuff. Which was written for Debian and did not work well with my Gentoo. Still, better than scratchbox
Aug 29 01:08:53 <lcukn900> do dee?
Aug 29 01:08:54 <MohammadAG> o/ lcuk
Aug 29 01:08:56 <lcukn900> so see
Aug 29 01:09:00 <MohammadAG> LOL
Aug 29 01:09:08 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: yeah, back in february it wasn't as convenient
Aug 29 01:09:13 <teilzeitstudent> Then along came the Nokia sdk.
Aug 29 01:09:34 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: anyways, the Qt SDK is pretty easy to install with its nice GUI
Aug 29 01:09:55 <teilzeitstudent> yea...the only thing I had to just click to get it running
Aug 29 01:10:41 <Venemo> yeah.
Aug 29 01:10:46 <teilzeitstudent> But still.. 4gb disk space or w/e is just too much
Aug 29 01:10:52 <Venemo> OMG! Scratchbox installer surprised me
Aug 29 01:11:00 <pyther> where is a good place to install software / compile software if I'm not using a deb file?
Aug 29 01:11:13 <Venemo> it enabled the RPMFusion repository and started to install Xephyr with yum
Aug 29 01:11:32 <teilzeitstudent> inst xephyr part of X11?
Aug 29 01:11:34 <teilzeitstudent> isnt*
Aug 29 01:12:10 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: no. it is an X11 server
Aug 29 01:12:23 <teilzeitstudent> pyther, to install on your device... /opt is always good. just dont try /usr
Aug 29 01:12:55 <joga> ooh nice, just noticed fheroes2
Aug 29 01:12:57 <pyther> teilzeitstudent: so I should probably do a prefix=/opt/mymplayer
Aug 29 01:12:59 <joga> I loved that game :)
Aug 29 01:13:16 <teilzeitstudent> Venemo, errr.. I meant xorg. probably.
Aug 29 01:13:30 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: nope.
Aug 29 01:13:38 <teilzeitstudent> it was on my system by default I think
Aug 29 01:13:41 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: Xorg is an X server, too, and Xephyr is another one
Aug 29 01:13:54 <Venemo> OKAY! IT WORKS!
Aug 29 01:14:10 <Venemo> hm, it seems to be a quite crippled down Hildon-Desktop
Aug 29 01:14:33 <teilzeitstudent> you still need to manually install a lot of stuff with scratchbox
Aug 29 01:14:38 <teilzeitstudent> +manually*
Aug 29 01:14:56 <teilzeitstudent> by defautl its only a bare system... I had no menu entries whatsoever
Aug 29 01:14:58 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: XTerm is missing! WTF!
Aug 29 01:15:02 <teilzeitstudent> yea
Aug 29 01:15:08 <Venemo> can I install it?
Aug 29 01:15:20 <teilzeitstudent> apt-get install
Aug 29 01:15:20 <pyther> How can I get a mouse cursor in Xephry
Aug 29 01:15:21 <teilzeitstudent> ftw
Aug 29 01:15:29 <Venemo> teilzeitstudent: there is no apt-get on Fedora :P
Aug 29 01:15:49 <teilzeitstudent> your in a chroot on debian, arent you?
Aug 29 01:15:50 <MohammadAG> Venemo, why install xterm?
Aug 29 01:16:02 <MohammadAG> use the scratchbox terminal
Aug 29 01:17:13 <teilzeitstudent> I thing he/she was talking about on the device
Aug 29 01:17:17 <teilzeitstudent> GUI~
Aug 29 01:17:23 <MohammadAG> I know :)
Aug 29 01:17:28 <MohammadAG> osso-xterm can be installed
Aug 29 01:17:37 <MohammadAG> but you need to use the numlock enter
Aug 29 01:17:46 <MohammadAG> err, keypad
Aug 29 01:17:54 <teilzeitstudent> the normal enter doesnt work?
Aug 29 01:17:55 <MohammadAG> normal enter would bring up the keyboard
Aug 29 01:18:01 <teilzeitstudent> ah
Aug 29 01:18:04 <MohammadAG> on screen keyboard
Aug 29 01:18:07 <teilzeitstudent> then thats what i was doing wrong
Aug 29 01:18:16 <MohammadAG> just use scratchbox's terminal
Aug 29 01:18:24 <MohammadAG> it works the same
Aug 29 01:18:27 <teilzeitstudent> had a screen... no icons, no nothing, pressed some keys and strange things happend xD
Aug 29 01:18:35 <MohammadAG> lol
Aug 29 01:19:29 <Venemo> MohammadAG: how do I use scratchbox terminal?
Aug 29 01:19:41 <teilzeitstudent> pyther, on my install, all I had to do was click into the xypher window. the mouse was "grabbed" automatically then
Aug 29 01:20:01 <MohammadAG> /sc/log
Aug 29 01:20:07 <pyther> hmm ok, mine was grabbed but I couldn't see what I was clicking on!
Aug 29 01:20:08 <MohammadAG> damn, tried to tab
Aug 29 01:20:08 <MohammadAG> xD
Aug 29 01:20:12 <MohammadAG> /scratchbox/login
Aug 29 01:20:13 <lcukn900> n900_2 is wailing for battery and its all the way on other side of room
Aug 29 01:20:22 <Venemo> hm, I added the Extras repos to it... and HAM is WAY faster!
Aug 29 01:21:07 <MohammadAG> you should see how it runs on my i5
Aug 29 01:21:13 <MohammadAG> it's instant
Aug 29 01:21:17 * lcukn900 ssh in and shutdown to stop bugging
Aug 29 01:21:21 <Venemo> yeah
Aug 29 01:21:31 <Venemo> this is only a T4300... but it's great
Aug 29 01:22:04 <Venemo> the guys who designed HAM overshoot the hardware requirement a little bit
Aug 29 01:22:14 <lcukn900> moh/venemo how about some real tracing to see slowdowns
Aug 29 01:22:19 <MohammadAG> You are about to open 80 tabs.  This might slow down Firefox while the pages are loading.  Are you sure you want to continue? LOL
Aug 29 01:22:34 <lcukn900> the number of packages ham was geared to handled shot up immensely
Aug 29 01:22:55 <teilzeitstudent> i'm telling you.. the graphics card makes all the difference, if it does not support all the things the linux kernel likes, its really really slow. even if you got a tripple core with 4ghz each
Aug 29 01:22:57 <lcukn900> the major hammering m5 gave it is harsh
Aug 29 01:23:18 <Venemo> lcukn900: well, a 2.1 GHz x86_64 processor can handle it better than a 600 MHz ARM one... no wonder
Aug 29 01:23:33 <lcukn900> i know that i mean on device
Aug 29 01:23:42 <lcukn900> where can be really belttightened
Aug 29 01:24:00 <teilzeitstudent> .. what?:P
Aug 29 01:24:13 <lcukn900> if the apt package list is filtered
Aug 29 01:24:21 <lcukn900> or icons removed etc
Aug 29 01:24:33 <lcukn900> does it return to snappiness
Aug 29 01:24:39 <MohammadAG> teilzeitstudent, a GFX card on a PC with scratchbox does nothing
Aug 29 01:24:40 <Venemo> lcukn900: I get your point
Aug 29 01:25:04 <lcukn900> hmmm icons
Aug 29 01:25:16 <lcukn900> exract once when downloading
Aug 29 01:25:18 <pyther> Well after disabling nearly all the video output i'll see if mplayre will compile successfully :P
Aug 29 01:25:23 <lcukn900> and remove fronm apt
Aug 29 01:25:32 <lcukn900> would make db reads faster?
Aug 29 01:25:52 <teilzeitstudent> MohammadAG, it does. If you have a propetairy driver that does not support hardware emulation or w/e. Simply because printing a screen takes the CPU, not native access to the GPU
Aug 29 01:26:25 <MohammadAG> hildon-desktop uses the powervr, no PC I know has one
Aug 29 01:26:27 <Venemo> lcukn900: my take on HAM would be multithreading
Aug 29 01:26:43 <MohammadAG> tbh, HAM needs to use apt-get
Aug 29 01:26:47 <lcukn900> venemo fapman doesnt use mt
Aug 29 01:26:51 <lcukn900> i dont think
Aug 29 01:26:58 <MohammadAG> apt does stuff much faster than apt-worker
Aug 29 01:27:00 <lcukn900> its just more optimal
Aug 29 01:27:35 <jacekowski> teilzeitstudent: modern graphic cards have no 2d accelleration
Aug 29 01:27:40 <lcukn900> just fapman doesnt support everything
Aug 29 01:27:43 <jacekowski> teilzeitstudent: it's all done in software
Aug 29 01:27:44 <teilzeitstudent> MohammadAG, yea, but I was talking about the hardware emulation layer inside the kernel. i.e. run ARM stuff on a x86. without having to compile the same source for both
Aug 29 01:27:55 <luke-jr> jacekowski: err, no
Aug 29 01:28:01 <jacekowski> err yes
Aug 29 01:28:11 <luke-jr> jacekowski: it's done using 3D acceleration
Aug 29 01:28:26 <Venemo> lcukn900: yeah, because fapman's author was a ********
Aug 29 01:28:35 <lcukn900> venemo?
Aug 29 01:28:40 <Venemo> lcukn900: I'm very angry at him for not committing his changes to HAM
Aug 29 01:28:47 <teilzeitstudent> jacekowski, yea but my ATI card is... well. retarded. if i run vmware, *everything* is done on CPU.
Aug 29 01:28:52 <luke-jr> teilzeitstudent: there is no such emulation layer
Aug 29 01:28:53 <lcukn900> venemo  he didnt change he rewrote
Aug 29 01:29:01 <lcukn900> and its a new implementation
Aug 29 01:29:05 <Venemo> lcukn900: yeah, I know
Aug 29 01:29:05 <luke-jr> teilzeitstudent: that's VMWare being retarded :P
Aug 29 01:29:14 <jacekowski> luke-jr: software has to translate 2d drawing commands to 3d that graphic card can understand
Aug 29 01:29:19 <teilzeitstudent> kdrine?
Aug 29 01:29:22 <Venemo> lcukn900: still he should have improved HAM instead
Aug 29 01:29:26 <lcukn900> venemo and frankly its GOOD to see
Aug 29 01:29:29 <luke-jr> jacekowski: 3D is a superset of 2D for the most part
Aug 29 01:29:30 <teilzeitstudent> kdrive*
Aug 29 01:29:37 <lcukn900> venemo it can still help improve ham
Aug 29 01:29:43 <Venemo> lcukn900: yeah
Aug 29 01:29:50 <luke-jr> teilzeitstudent: kdrive is a "small" X server
Aug 29 01:29:55 <lcukn900> because it does show that its feasible to make a fast one
Aug 29 01:30:04 <jacekowski> luke-jr: kdrive is old xfree86
Aug 29 01:30:06 <lcukn900> ie to see where slack is
Aug 29 01:30:07 <Venemo> lcukn900: anyways, multithreading would allow one to use the GUI while loading... it would provide a much snappier feeling
Aug 29 01:30:16 <jacekowski> luke-jr: before licensing issues created Xorg
Aug 29 01:30:26 <luke-jr> jacekowski: then why does xorg-server have IUSE=kdrive ?
Aug 29 01:30:33 <Venemo> lcukn900: instead of having to stare at the "please wait" dialog
Aug 29 01:30:35 <lcukn900> vnemo more deeply intrusive than streamlining the actions
Aug 29 01:30:41 <jacekowski> luke-jr: that's gentoo stuff
Aug 29 01:30:41 <lcukn900> i agree
Aug 29 01:30:52 <luke-jr> jacekowski: which is just symbolic representation of upstrea
Aug 29 01:30:52 <jacekowski> luke-jr: because some packages depend on xorg-server
Aug 29 01:31:04 <lcukn900> the fapman advantage is like desktop install batch job
Aug 29 01:31:17 <Venemo> lcukn900: of course, multithreading is a two-bladed weapon... it doesn't spare us from having to optimize the rest of the app
Aug 29 01:31:25 <lcukn900> so you dont see please wait until the end
Aug 29 01:31:30 <jacekowski> anyways
Aug 29 01:31:36 <Venemo> lcukn900: yeah, also very good idea
Aug 29 01:31:40 <lcukn900> did you know ham has a batch job mode...
Aug 29 01:31:41 <jacekowski> i got lost
Aug 29 01:31:45 <jacekowski> what is the problem
Aug 29 01:32:07 <lcukn900> implemented for restore operation.
Aug 29 01:32:10 <jacekowski> HAM is slow
Aug 29 01:32:12 * luke-jr wonders when/if people will begin to optimize foreach loops with multithreading
Aug 29 01:32:23 <lcukn900> but it should be feasible to use same mechanism
Aug 29 01:32:25 <luke-jr> no reason each element can't have its own thread, in theory :P
Aug 29 01:32:32 <jacekowski> and well, HAM should be fixed
Aug 29 01:32:38 <jacekowski> luke-jr: wasting of cpu cycles
Aug 29 01:32:45 <microlith> luke-jr: if and only if the overhead for thread creation/destruction is worth it, which is unlikely in most cases
Aug 29 01:32:48 <lcukn900> jace ham is overworked
Aug 29 01:32:49 <jacekowski> luke-jr: unless you have multicore cpu
Aug 29 01:32:50 <MohammadAG> in theory, a wrapper can help
Aug 29 01:33:02 <MohammadAG> i.e, make apt-worker use apt-get
Aug 29 01:33:10 <lcukn900> it worked well previously with less data
Aug 29 01:33:23 <jacekowski> lcukn900: aptitude works without any problems
Aug 29 01:33:35 <teilzeitstudent> errrr.. what was it then.... some way for accessing hardware directly without going through extra software layers. like wine vs. native windows
Aug 29 01:33:42 <jacekowski> cydia on iphone works faster
Aug 29 01:33:43 <MohammadAG> aptitude is a direct frontend for apt
Aug 29 01:33:45 <jacekowski> and it's slower cpu
Aug 29 01:33:50 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: it's not
Aug 29 01:33:52 <lcukn900> jace 1 big problem, its not the standard app manager.
Aug 29 01:33:59 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, it doesn't use apt-worker
Aug 29 01:34:00 <teilzeitstudent> same reason why ATI took years to support fancy xdamage stuff
Aug 29 01:34:17 <MohammadAG> btw
Aug 29 01:34:19 <lcukn900> we already know faster versions are available
Aug 29 01:34:20 <jacekowski> teilzeitstudent: DRM
Aug 29 01:34:22 <lcukn900> fapman
Aug 29 01:34:34 <MohammadAG> isn't there a way to remove compression on debs?
Aug 29 01:34:36 <lcukn900> but thats not the point of this discussion :p
Aug 29 01:34:43 <MohammadAG> would make dl slower, but unpacking much faster
Aug 29 01:34:57 <jacekowski> teilzeitstudent: but DRM only works if you are rendering stuff on local hardware
Aug 29 01:35:12 <lcukn900> mohammadag no no no
Aug 29 01:35:17 <jacekowski> teilzeitstudent: otherwise it will be packed into xproto and sent via network wherever you display
Aug 29 01:35:29 <lcukn900> faster apt-worker using less layers maybe
Aug 29 01:35:31 <jacekowski> teilzeitstudent: you will still get 3d acceleration, but with higher cpu usage
Aug 29 01:35:36 <Venemo> nah, okay... seems that the Maemo 5 SDK works on Fedora without issue
Aug 29 01:35:38 <luke-jr> microlith: that's a practical problem :P
Aug 29 01:35:38 <jacekowski> well, 1st problem
Aug 29 01:35:44 <lcukn900> but dont expect people ln mobile to download more data
Aug 29 01:35:52 <jacekowski> why is HAM downloading updates every time i open it
Aug 29 01:36:01 <jacekowski> even though it's downloading updates in background
Aug 29 01:36:04 <MohammadAG> using the desktop icon?
Aug 29 01:36:06 <lcukn900> you tell me
Aug 29 01:36:15 <MohammadAG> when starting it from terminal it does that
Aug 29 01:36:17 <MohammadAG> for some reason
Aug 29 01:36:18 <luke-jr> teilzeitstudent: WINE is faster than native Windows of course
Aug 29 01:36:31 <jacekowski> luke-jr: when did that happen?
Aug 29 01:36:37 <luke-jr> jacekowski: it's nothing new
Aug 29 01:36:45 <teilzeitstudent> yea. thats the point. before using some kernel paramters, pretty much everything in scratchbox/MADDE was using my CPU to translate stuff into whatever my hardware uses. With those kernel params, everything ran sorta native.
Aug 29 01:36:54 <Venemo> MohammadAG: unpacking speed isn't the issue
Aug 29 01:36:55 <teilzeitstudent> luke-jr, of course it does.
Aug 29 01:37:07 <luke-jr> teilzeitstudent: your x86 CPU can never run ARM binaries natively
Aug 29 01:37:09 <jacekowski> luke-jr: that's new to me
Aug 29 01:37:20 <luke-jr> jacekowski: WINE is a better implementation of the APIs
Aug 29 01:37:20 <jacekowski> luke-jr: crusoe can
Aug 29 01:37:29 <microlith> lol, crusoe
Aug 29 01:37:29 <luke-jr> jacekowski: I said *his* x86 CPU
Aug 29 01:37:30 <jacekowski> luke-jr: using linux apis
Aug 29 01:37:36 <teilzeitstudent> :<
Aug 29 01:37:38 <Venemo> IMO, HAM should agressively cache everything
Aug 29 01:37:42 <rtyler> anybody using pygame on the n900?
Aug 29 01:37:48 <jacekowski> luke-jr: you add additional layer of incompatible apis
Aug 29 01:37:52 <jacekowski> luke-jr: that has to be slower
Aug 29 01:37:56 <pyther> Holy Hell
Aug 29 01:38:01 <Venemo> it should update less, and allow the user to browse the repo while updating
Aug 29 01:38:02 <lcukn900> venemo thats not always right either
Aug 29 01:38:04 <Venemo> that's all
Aug 29 01:38:19 <lcukn900> allowing to browse whilst perhaps
Aug 29 01:38:24 <jacekowski> luke-jr: and according to benchmarks on wine website it is slower except when app is doing heavy number crunching and not calling many APIs
Aug 29 01:38:29 <pyther> :(
Aug 29 01:38:34 <lcukn900> but when user opens ham it expects to get latest
Aug 29 01:38:35 <luke-jr> jacekowski: you forget Windows' own implementation is on top of their native stuff
Aug 29 01:38:41 <Venemo> lcukn900: yes.
Aug 29 01:38:49 <jacekowski> luke-jr: it isn't
Aug 29 01:38:51 <lcukn900> perhaps we need to review versions sent from maemo again
Aug 29 01:38:54 <luke-jr> jacekowski: all modern Windows is based on NT, which had its own native APIs
Aug 29 01:39:02 <luke-jr> the Win32 API was added in a WINE-like fashon later
Aug 29 01:39:05 <lcukn900> do we still offer all versions of all packages
Aug 29 01:39:08 <jacekowski> luke-jr: have you seen their kernel?
Aug 29 01:39:12 <Venemo> anyways, I'll go and sleep now, so good evening guys
Aug 29 01:39:19 <luke-jr> jacekowski: these APIs aren't in the Windows kernel IIRC
Aug 29 01:39:20 <jacekowski> luke-jr: i mean source
Aug 29 01:39:23 <Venemo> thanks for the help with scratchbox
Aug 29 01:39:26 <lcukn900> maybe just tips and used
Aug 29 01:39:29 <luke-jr> it's in kernel32.dll and such
Aug 29 01:39:38 <luke-jr> which wraps the native stuff
Aug 29 01:39:40 <pyther> Yippy I compiled a static version of mplayer that works on my N900!
Aug 29 01:39:42 <lcukn900> venemo use ham with just extras
Aug 29 01:39:51 <lcukn900> its much faster
Aug 29 01:39:56 <lcukn900> than with devel too
Aug 29 01:40:05 <jacekowski> luke-jr: google for windows research kernel
Aug 29 01:40:19 <jacekowski> luke-jr: it's old windows xp kernel but it can give you idea how the stuff is done
Aug 29 01:40:22 <lcukn900> pyther well dine
Aug 29 01:40:23 <lcukn900> donde
Aug 29 01:40:26 <lcukn900> done
Aug 29 01:40:46 <pyther> Now it would be cool to compile a version that can do video, but I have a feeling that would be a lot of patch work
Aug 29 01:40:56 <t_s_o> hrmf, seems someone is pushing N900 qt programs to the N8x0 repo for some reason
Aug 29 01:40:57 <lcukn900> you spent time hacking at that! did your one movie work?
Aug 29 01:40:58 <jacekowski> luke-jr: there is no NT api anywhere
Aug 29 01:41:06 <lcukn900> lol
Aug 29 01:41:25 <lcukn900> jace 2001ish there was a winnt leak afaik
Aug 29 01:41:31 <pyther> lcukn900: no I can listen to iheartradio without the flash web page! (that took over 5 minutes to load)
Aug 29 01:41:34 <lcukn900> i read it on slashdot
Aug 29 01:41:50 <lcukn900> awww pyther bet you feel proud!
Aug 29 01:41:50 <jacekowski> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/sharedsource/windowsacademic/researchkernelkit.mspx
Aug 29 01:42:02 <lcukn900> fancy offering a patch to sampo?
Aug 29 01:42:11 <lcukn900> or is it not fully working yet?
Aug 29 01:42:17 <jacekowski> if you are at uni that microsoft likes or you know how to google you can get windows kernel and assisting libraries
Aug 29 01:42:20 <jacekowski> as source
Aug 29 01:42:22 <jacekowski> old version of it
Aug 29 01:42:34 <jacekowski> ~ winxp sp1
Aug 29 01:44:10 <Venemo> where are the icons files stored (apart from /usr/share/pixmaps) ?
Aug 29 01:44:26 <luke-jr> jacekowski: Sony used it for their rootkit IIRC
Aug 29 01:44:29 <MohammadAG> the motherload of shit I can't understand, /usr/share/icons
Aug 29 01:44:31 <lcukn900> /usr/share/icons
Aug 29 01:44:45 <SpeedEvil> pyther: why? There is mplayer in exrtas
Aug 29 01:44:49 <teilzeitstudent> ?
Aug 29 01:44:51 <jacekowski> you don't really need kernel source to make a rootkit
Aug 29 01:44:52 <teilzeitstudent> .
Aug 29 01:45:02 <lcukn900> speedevil new tip of git
Aug 29 01:45:08 <jacekowski> you just need driver development kit
Aug 29 01:45:08 <lcukn900> for a new feature
Aug 29 01:45:11 <SpeedEvil> ah
Aug 29 01:45:22 <jacekowski> well, depends on rootkit
Aug 29 01:45:31 <pyther> SpeedEvil: yes, but is really old and doesn't support rtmp streams or piping from rtmpdump
Aug 29 01:45:32 <jacekowski> sony went driver way iirc
Aug 29 01:45:45 <SpeedEvil> pyther: Oook. Interesting.
Aug 29 01:45:57 <psycho_oreos> sony = piece of shit
Aug 29 01:46:08 <jacekowski> ekhm
Aug 29 01:46:11 <jacekowski> i have sony laptop
Aug 29 01:46:18 <jacekowski> and it's so far the best laptop i had
Aug 29 01:46:30 <jacekowski> in terms of reliability and abuse taken
Aug 29 01:46:44 <SpeedEvil> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1252240/The-food-won-war-The-weird-wonderful-ration-book-dishes-helped-Britain-victory.html
Aug 29 01:46:45 <SpeedEvil> err
Aug 29 01:46:46 <SpeedEvil> no
Aug 29 01:46:53 <psycho_oreos> hopefully one day you'll be burned by their drm-lacing techniques
Aug 29 01:47:00 <SpeedEvil> http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/23/toughbook-tiger-elephant-technology-personal-test.html
Aug 29 01:47:01 <SpeedEvil> that
Aug 29 01:47:03 <t_s_o> silly question from me perhaps, but have there been any plans to get qt 4.6 or newer onto diablo?
Aug 29 01:47:07 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski:
Aug 29 01:47:28 <lcukn900> t_s_o which verysion is there now?
Aug 29 01:47:33 <jacekowski> but toughbook costs 5x more
Aug 29 01:47:35 <t_s_o> 4.5, iirc
Aug 29 01:47:41 <jacekowski> it's like 3-5k
Aug 29 01:47:42 <lcukn900> and did you follow the laest ssu tests?
Aug 29 01:47:47 <t_s_o> yep
Aug 29 01:47:53 <Venemo> goodbye
Aug 29 01:48:01 <lcukn900> :) good to see them
Aug 29 01:48:06 <lcukn900> damn gnite venemo
Aug 29 01:48:15 <t_s_o> i dont think the community ssu touches on qt availability
Aug 29 01:48:21 * lcukn900 likes seeing venemos useful posts 
Aug 29 01:48:29 <lcukn900> no tso
Aug 29 01:49:13 <teilzeitstudent> errr. I was talking, among other things, about vdso. without that, my CPU was at 50% at *all* virtual guest things used the cpu at 100% just to make a click. with that, everything was at 1%
Aug 29 01:49:23 <lcukn900> but if someone got it working (latest qt) i dont see why it couldnt be tried?
Aug 29 01:49:37 <t_s_o> reason i am asking was that there was at least on thread on talk that gave the impression that the reason the dev of a program didnt look into n8x0 support was because he was using qt 4.6
Aug 29 01:49:54 <teilzeitstudent> missing a ; there and a "at" too much.
Aug 29 01:49:59 <jacekowski> teilzeitstudent: vdso is just a way how syscalls are called
Aug 29 01:50:12 <lcukn900> is there a defining list of what changedc in what qt version?
Aug 29 01:50:23 <pyther> Now the 100% question if I build mplayer normally will it play videos :P
Aug 29 01:50:29 <lcukn900> because i expect to write qt stuff normallly and most should work?
Aug 29 01:50:29 <jacekowski> teilzeitstudent: and without vdso calls are made safe always working slow int 0x80 way
Aug 29 01:50:33 <pyther> s/100%/$100
Aug 29 01:50:43 <jacekowski> teilzeitstudent: with vdso syscalls are made sysenter/sysexit way
Aug 29 01:51:24 <lcukn900> tso in some cases it should be possible all the qt4.5 apps dont just stop working and are locked into one version
Aug 29 01:51:36 <lcukn900> so there is some compatability overlap surely
Aug 29 01:52:47 <lcukn900> i recall some great looking qt apps from n8x0 - qtablet
Aug 29 01:52:55 <lcukn900> shopper even!
Aug 29 01:53:06 <lcukn900> there was weather doofers
Aug 29 01:53:22 <t_s_o> i see the n900 have you in its grip
Aug 29 01:55:22 <t_s_o> ugh, sorry, that was uncalled for
Aug 29 01:57:42 <lcukn900> t_s_o yes it was, but true all the same i need to get my 810 runnig
Aug 29 01:57:56 <lcukn900> :)
Aug 29 01:58:59 <lcukn900> t_s_o which app is it that needs later qt?
Aug 29 01:59:12 <lcukn900> and have you looked at building it in 4.5
Aug 29 02:00:36 <t_s_o> sorry, not much of a dev, mostly just wondering as there are some project threads on talk that would have been interesting to have variants of on the 800 series
Aug 29 02:01:50 <t_s_o> still, even if the latest qt is available, the dev responsible for the app in question may not have a n8x0 to test on anyways
Aug 29 02:02:16 <lcukn900> thats where you come in handy :)
Aug 29 02:02:44 <lcukn900> it would be great to have a datapoint "oh it works on my 800"
Aug 29 02:02:55 <lcukn900> btw have you installed telescope?
Aug 29 02:03:06 <lcukn900> does it work as well as i have seen it
Aug 29 02:03:26 <t_s_o> i would say so yes
Aug 29 02:04:31 <t_s_o> now that it has launcher integrated, being able browse installed programs by page rather then the "eternal" scroll is nice
Aug 29 02:05:13 <lcukn900> heh nice
Aug 29 02:05:26 * lcukn900 tells tracy to order charger
Aug 29 02:05:30 <t_s_o> i wonder if the main issue with n800 "ports" would be the ui
Aug 29 02:05:47 <lcukn900> in the morning shes sleeping off lots of wine lol
Aug 29 02:08:49 <lcukn900> speaking of sleeping i am vanishing.  i spent today with a cotton wad in ear and feeling dizzy at wedding so sitting now has been peaceful but i must doze
Aug 29 02:08:52 <lcukn900> gnite
Aug 29 02:09:54 <MohammadAG> night :)
Aug 29 02:34:03 <pyther> Hmm mplayer works pretty well on the N900 without any patches, from a quick test anyways, probably just needs a patch to prevent the screen from locking
Aug 29 02:36:03 <SpeedEvil> Hmm
Aug 29 02:36:16 <SpeedEvil> I wonder if the latest one will play malformed flv
Aug 29 02:36:41 <pyther> SpeedEvil: you have a link to a malformed flv? I can test it for you?
Aug 29 02:36:49 <SpeedEvil> hangon
Aug 29 02:41:50 <pyther> SpeedEvil: I'm hanging :P
Aug 29 02:42:47 <SpeedEvil> meh.
Aug 29 02:42:54 <SpeedEvil> I can't find one I have the rights to.
Aug 29 02:43:01 <SpeedEvil> Or approval for, so I'd better not.
Aug 29 02:43:10 <SpeedEvil> to distribute
Aug 29 02:43:28 <pyther> ahh ok, well if you see me on feel free to ask me to test it later
Aug 29 02:43:32 <SpeedEvil> I can just compile it in my chroot - I'ver got ffmpeg built in there
Aug 29 02:43:41 <SpeedEvil> so mplayer shouldn't be too hard
Aug 29 02:43:55 <pyther> SpeedEvil: I took the latest svn snapshot and it compiled without a hitch
Aug 29 02:44:03 <pyther> I used --disable-gui
Aug 29 02:44:23 <SpeedEvil> MPlayer SVN-r31303-snapshot-4.3.3 (C) 2000-2010 MPlayer Team
Aug 29 02:44:27 <SpeedEvil> I have - and it doesn't work.
Aug 29 02:44:33 <SpeedEvil> I should get latest, and redo.
Aug 29 02:45:08 <pyther> MPlayer SVN-r32027-4.2.1 (C) 2000-2010 MPlayer Team
Aug 29 02:45:09 <SpeedEvil> I also want to get a transcoding flash proxy up and running.
Aug 29 02:45:24 <SpeedEvil> That is - n900 flash requests a video.
Aug 29 02:45:24 <ieatlint> http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/FLV/ might have one
Aug 29 02:45:54 <pyther> Do you know if pulse audio on maemo has network support?
Aug 29 02:46:08 <SpeedEvil> rtmpsomething on the phone notices this stream request, and relays it to a server. The serrver transcodes to a smaller bandwidth version, and sends to the phone.
Aug 29 02:46:24 <SpeedEvil> And flash 'just works'
Aug 29 02:46:44 <SpeedEvil> And yes, this is tricky.
Aug 29 02:47:45 <SpeedEvil> Of course, the analogous process, but with mplayer popping up when flash is strarted, for when irt's not constrained by bandwidth
Aug 29 02:55:08 <user_> hello
Aug 29 02:55:24 <knackers> lo
Aug 29 02:55:42 <knackers> anyone on N900
Aug 29 02:58:44 <luke-jr> knackers: everyone?
Aug 29 02:58:50 <n900evil> yes
Aug 29 02:59:39 <knackers> word
Aug 29 02:59:48 <knackers> irssi here
Aug 29 02:59:51 <luke-jr> irssi ftl
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 29 02:59:57 2010