**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 12 02:59:57 2010 Sep 12 03:00:16 is there a decent facebook client for the n900 besides the web browser? Sep 12 03:02:49 zokier, this this dbus-monitor adds another dimension but... it is not showing any of wlancond dbus calls i got using strace Sep 12 03:03:12 maybe there are calls that aren't shown or maybe i am doing anything wrong? Sep 12 03:05:08 have you monitored both session and system bus? Sep 12 03:05:56 no i just did dbus-monitor > Sep 12 03:06:02 thx :) Sep 12 03:15:22 zokier, definitely not showing up... there are some dbus calls of wlancond on --system, but not the setup wlan one... Sep 12 03:15:51 does this show both requests and replys? I mean... is it all the conversation going on dbus? Sep 12 03:18:46 interesting Sep 12 03:18:51 NSU is allowing to re-install 1.2 Sep 12 03:18:59 have you guys been experiencing the same? Sep 12 03:19:59 i think it shows replies too Sep 12 03:20:21 ?? Sep 12 03:21:29 and is it possible some calls are made to no show up? Sep 12 03:22:22 i'm not sure... it can be possible that it uses some other bus for internal calls Sep 12 03:23:31 eg the wlan daemon or something runs as some different user, and it uses that users session bus Sep 12 03:23:39 just guessing here Sep 12 03:23:44 but it follows the same dbus format... Ill try to see what happens if I send that dbus call... when I read how to do that ... Sep 12 03:24:18 in the straced call it identifies and wlancond Sep 12 03:24:23 as wlancond Sep 12 03:24:59 just the same as other that are showing up, but the two most interesting calls arent **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 12 04:52:32 2010 Sep 12 04:53:31 Doc: here? Sep 12 04:57:03 Anyway, once any of swap-interested parties awaken, check out this: http://lwn.net/Articles/334649/ Sep 12 04:58:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYV-JSjpyU&feature=related Sep 12 05:10:51 yello Sep 12 05:15:02 hi Sep 12 05:18:19 http://pics.nase-bohren.de/dearapple.jpg Apple fans respond to the Ipad (nice tagline at bottom) Sep 12 05:48:20 [sbox-: ~] > sb-conf select SDK_ARMEL Sep 12 05:48:20 sb-conf: No such target: SDK_ARMEL Sep 12 05:48:35 i don't understand this Sep 12 05:49:05 plz help Sep 12 06:23:04 hey th0br0 Sep 12 06:25:07 hello Texrat Sep 12 06:48:57 felipec: pong Sep 12 07:18:09 is 8 the maximun in wlan_tx_power? Sep 12 07:36:01 Cell phone gang wars http://pics.nase-bohren.de/android-rowdies.png Sep 12 07:39:34 <`Francesca_Lucch> hey guys Sep 12 07:40:07 <`Francesca_Lucch> question any of you know whrere i can change opera download path? Sep 12 07:40:41 dunno Sep 12 07:40:51 <`Francesca_Lucch> i want to set a default parth Sep 12 07:40:55 <`Francesca_Lucch> parth Sep 12 07:40:58 <`Francesca_Lucch> ... Sep 12 07:41:09 <`Francesca_Lucch> path Sep 12 07:54:03 a path a path! Sep 12 08:08:32 hello! Can anybody vote for Mnemosyne package? I need only one vote for promote it to extras ) Sep 12 08:08:47 what is it Sep 12 08:09:23 This is mobile version of Mnemosyne software Sep 12 08:09:24 It resembles a traditional flash-card program to help you Sep 12 08:09:24 memorise question/answer pairs Sep 12 08:10:14 I have version for N800 and N810 in extras, and the current version for N900 Sep 12 08:10:35 <`Francesca_Lucch> isnt it an anime? Sep 12 08:14:23 <`Francesca_Lucch> http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=5530 Sep 12 08:15:00 <`Francesca_Lucch> >.> Sep 12 08:15:24 the name maybe related to anime but it isn't necessarily anime itself, plus the guy who wanted to promote that stuff has got his connection reset by peer :p Sep 12 08:15:55 <`Francesca_Lucch> i think he took the name of the anime Sep 12 08:16:08 <`Francesca_Lucch> but ok Sep 12 08:17:09 peer is evil Sep 12 08:17:13 he may or may not have but its irrelevant.. the name isn't trademarked or registered Sep 12 08:17:28 i was going to vote, not sure where I had to Sep 12 08:20:25 he probably meant this: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/mnemosyne/2.0.0~beta13~rc1/ Sep 12 08:21:47 oh, yes, this is right link Sep 12 08:21:55 done Sep 12 08:22:11 o.O he's back heh Sep 12 08:22:29 yes, I was disconnected ( Sep 12 08:22:34 we saw Sep 12 08:23:12 and `Francesca_Lucch had a trivial question for you in regards to the name of the app Sep 12 08:23:35 thank you for voting. And I have a question, if my main packet depends on addtition library, writen myself, shoul I promote this library too? Sep 12 08:23:48 what's the library about? Sep 12 08:24:20 it is main mnemosyne library, called libmnemosyne Sep 12 08:24:30 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/python-libmnemosyne/2.0.0-16~rc7/ Sep 12 08:24:50 oh, not sure, it's the first time I'm voting, I suppose it will get promoted to extras too, as a dependency Sep 12 08:25:18 bef0rd: plastun: no manual lib promotion - it will get pulled in Sep 12 08:25:29 cool! Sep 12 08:25:32 (unless someone put it in the user/* section, but that is a different story) Sep 12 08:28:36 <`Francesca_Lucch> humm where do i get python Sep 12 08:29:04 python.org? Sep 12 08:29:09 oh, you mean in the repos Sep 12 08:29:23 <`Francesca_Lucch> one for maemo Sep 12 08:29:39 <`Francesca_Lucch> N900 Sep 12 08:30:15 I saw it was available in extras-testing or maybe extras-devel Sep 12 08:30:28 <`Francesca_Lucch> humm Sep 12 08:31:12 http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=python&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same Sep 12 08:31:20 lol Sep 12 08:33:49 <`Francesca_Lucch> o.o Sep 12 08:34:19 <`Francesca_Lucch> wonder what one is for maemo5 Sep 12 08:35:05 depends on which one you need I suppose Sep 12 08:35:48 anyone played with kernel compiling? trying to custom compile titan's kernel with a specific version string but dpkg-buildpackage isn't doing the whole thing right Sep 12 08:36:27 <`Francesca_Lucch> the complete pack like as on sayp Sep 12 08:36:40 <`Francesca_Lucch> s60 Sep 12 08:37:02 `Francesca_Lucch: doesn't work like that Sep 12 08:37:22 <`Francesca_Lucch> o? Sep 12 08:37:32 also please refrain from using weird characters as the beginning of your nick, it makes it harder to tab-complete Sep 12 08:37:46 "the complete pack" for python probably includes some GBs of libraries Sep 12 08:37:50 there's no "complete pack" Sep 12 08:37:58 <`Francesca_Lucch> so Sep 12 08:38:30 morn Sep 12 08:40:31 <`Francesca_Lucch> symbian-freak.com/downloads/freeware/cat_s60_3rd/descriptions/python/python_for_s60.htm Sep 12 08:40:34 <`Francesca_Lucch> that Sep 12 08:40:45 yeah, doesn't work like that Sep 12 08:40:51 just install "python" Sep 12 08:40:57 and then install the libraries you need Sep 12 08:41:39 <`Francesca_Lucch> i see Sep 12 08:42:04 <`Francesca_Lucch> oh yeah how come solarwolf game dont run Sep 12 08:44:07 <`Francesca_Lucch> humm only rtill maemo4 Sep 12 08:44:12 <`Francesca_Lucch> till* Sep 12 08:47:50 anybody using a blueetooth mouse with N900. I need a recommendation on what mouse to buy? Sep 12 08:48:43 a bluetooth one Sep 12 08:49:48 kerio: yes Sep 12 08:49:58 no, that's my recommendation Sep 12 08:50:18 kerio: all bt mouse work with N900? Sep 12 08:50:23 i don't see why not Sep 12 08:50:36 <`Francesca_Lucch> lol Sep 12 09:05:24 problem is why would you want a bt mouse? do you want RSI/CTS? :) Sep 12 09:08:03 kulve: I got vorbis, flac and mp3 working on gst-av, and fixed oggdemux and flacparse to work with tagreadbin, I'm trying to measure the power usage Sep 12 09:13:23 psycho_oreos: whats wrong with bt mouse? Sep 12 09:13:42 i was going to travel soon and did not want to carry laptop with me. Sep 12 09:13:58 trumee, that issue is not related to bt mouse but mouse in general Sep 12 09:14:28 I have a bt keyboard and wanted a mouse to accompany that Sep 12 09:14:50 seems on tmo people are reporting problems pairing bt mouse. Sep 12 09:14:53 N900 has touch screen Sep 12 09:15:26 psycho_oreos: yes, but bt mouse is little better to handle Sep 12 09:16:04 cheapest i have found http://www.ebuyer.com/product/169790 Sep 12 09:16:18 not sure it would pair with N900 or not. Sep 12 09:17:54 Any mouse would pair, as long as it has a pair code i guess Sep 12 09:18:01 trumee, better to handle till you get RSI/CTS but whatever Sep 12 09:31:48 felipec: ok. Let me know about the results :) Sep 12 09:35:13 kulve: so far it seems to be: nokiamp3=72mAh, libvorbis=114mAh, libflac=66mAh, ffmp3/ffvorbis/ffflac=66mAh Sep 12 09:37:30 felipec: nice numbers (both the fact that vorbis is taking so little and the useful mAh measurements) Sep 12 09:38:39 felipec: uhm, why mAh? What does it mean actually..? Sep 12 09:39:11 sorry, I meant mA Sep 12 09:39:21 felipec: ah, ok :) Sep 12 09:39:29 kulve: here's the script I used: http://pastie.org/1153444 Sep 12 09:40:21 I wonder how accurate that is.. Have you tried to reproduce those multiple times? Sep 12 09:41:36 Anyone knows the full com.nokia.wlancond methods description? Sep 12 09:41:51 kulve: yes, I'm trying that now with vorbis Sep 12 09:42:46 those numbers I just posted is by running 10min, so the accuracy is +-6mA, and I did run a few times, and they seemed to match, but not in a controlled way Sep 12 09:43:44 felipec: how can i use ffvorbis on N900? Sep 12 09:44:05 felipec: i am presently using Mediabox which uses libvorbis i think. Sep 12 09:44:29 trumee: does mediabox use GStreamer? Sep 12 09:44:49 felipec: yes it does. but presently i am using mplayer backend with it. Sep 12 09:45:01 kulve: at least the mp3 measurement seems to match yours: 18.3 hours Sep 12 09:45:50 trumee: mplayer uses ffmpeg as a backend, so it's only a matter of compiling ffmpeg with vorbis support Sep 12 09:46:00 felipec: Media Player (mafw?) takes too much cpu power. Mediabox (With mplayer) uses considerable less. Sep 12 09:46:23 felipec: is there any compiled binary which i can use? Sep 12 09:46:47 trumee: yes, that mostly GStreamer's fault Sep 12 09:47:29 trumee: although mafw can use different backends, so somebody could write an mplayer backend Sep 12 09:48:04 trumee: I can give you binaries to try for Media Player, and it might help quite a bit, but still it cannot match mplayer Sep 12 09:49:00 felipec: i am happy to use mplayer. are there any binaries for that? Sep 12 09:50:03 trumee: no Sep 12 09:50:35 if you are happy with mplayer then you should suggest to the one packaging that stuff to use ffmpeg's vorbis, although my guess would be that they are already doing that Sep 12 09:50:35 felipec: are you using mafw with ffvorbis? Sep 12 09:51:10 trumee: yes, mafw -> gstreamer -> gst-av -> ffmpeg-vorbis Sep 12 09:52:31 felipec: "although my guess would be that they are already doing that", is there a way to find that out? Sep 12 09:56:36 trumee: ask the guys that package mplayer? Sep 12 09:57:11 felipec: will do that that. can you please point where the binaries for gstreamer with ffvorbis are? Sep 12 09:59:59 Hi, I want to use gst-launch from gstreamer. What Do I need to install ? Sep 12 10:00:53 trumee: http://people.freedesktop.org/~felipec/maemo/ Sep 12 10:01:35 trumee: copy libgstav.so and libgstogg.so to /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10, but that would conflict with ogg vorbis support (libgstogg.so) Sep 12 10:01:47 dr34m: gstreamer0.10-tools Sep 12 10:05:30 felipec: so libgstogg.so should be overwritten. thanks for these. Sep 12 10:06:25 trumee: they might not work, it depends if you have libavcodec Sep 12 10:07:01 felipec: cheers. i will check that. Sep 12 10:09:35 SwedeMike: did you ever get IPv6 working? Found in a channel log that you had trouble with neighbour discovery, and I have the same... Sep 12 10:12:05 Zombie3: it's working well now anyway.. a friend of mine had problems as well, they ended up faultfinding his NIC driver for multicast related problems Sep 12 10:12:09 oh Sep 12 10:12:12 bah, N900 Sep 12 10:12:23 Zombie3: no, I still don't have it working on my N900 on wifi Sep 12 10:12:29 yikes Sep 12 10:12:49 Zombie3: we got it working on 2G/3G though. Sep 12 10:12:53 it's not even responding to ND Sep 12 10:13:10 multicast eh... I can check if that works on IPv4 Sep 12 10:13:21 Zombie3: no, as far as I can see, the packets are somehow not ending up in the kernel for processing, at least no response can be seen Sep 12 10:13:36 that's what I see too Sep 12 10:14:08 Zombie3: my initial response was regarding general ipv6 problems in linux, not N900 related Sep 12 10:15:36 oic. I remember discovering DLNA DMS's, so multicast would have worked. That's before I installed the power kernel though Sep 12 10:18:03 SwedeMike: it's odd that everybody seems to report that it works out of the box, and the two of us have trouble Sep 12 10:18:31 Zombie3: yeah. Sep 12 10:19:14 tcpdump sees the RA Sep 12 10:20:52 and neighbour sollicications when I ping its LLA Sep 12 10:21:00 yet, no response Sep 12 10:22:36 I compiled iproute2 for the n900, btw Sep 12 10:26:00 Zombie3: it's in extra-devel Sep 12 10:26:10 I never bothered to make it go to testing though Sep 12 10:28:53 Corsac: it's a must-have for any networking geek. It would be useful Sep 12 10:47:51 ruskie: Hey there. I'm a bit confused about how you packaged urxvt. I want to improve its handling on the n900, and for that I'd need to add some perl scripts. Usually they go into /usr/lib/urxvt/perl/ on a normal system, but it seems like you've put urxvt (the binary) into /opt/maemo/usr/bin/ but there is no /opt/maemo/usr/lib/urxvt, so where do the perl scripts go? Sep 12 10:53:26 Shapeshifter: /opt/maemo/usr/lib/urxvt is fine Sep 12 10:53:45 If it doesn't exist just create it :P Sep 12 10:58:35 alterego: mhhh. not yet working as I imagine it. :| I'm trying to do this: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/rxvt-unicode-hacking-800818/page2.html#post4013717 Sep 12 11:00:54 Maybe urxvt needs to be compiled with perl support or something? Sep 12 11:01:59 hi Sep 12 11:02:38 alterego: mhhh. yeah seems like ruskie didn't compile it with perl support. or at least it's not in the deps. Sep 12 11:02:58 how sad. I assume there still isn't any other terminal than X-Terminal? Sep 12 11:03:29 Well, I've not needed anything other than xterm so I've not really looked. Sep 12 11:04:09 it's not even xterm. Sep 12 11:04:20 I know Sep 12 11:04:30 Has anyone tried to install lighttpd on the n900? Sep 12 11:04:55 considering it's in extra-? I guess so Sep 12 11:05:04 Heh Sep 12 11:08:58 w00t my scratchbox install still works. Sep 12 11:14:10 Heh# Sep 12 11:24:34 just to let you know :-) http://wiki.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Hardware/N900/Installation Sep 12 11:25:57 DocScrutinizer: what can FSO do, and what can't it do? Does it do GSM/3G? Sep 12 11:26:24 not yet Sep 12 11:26:38 this is just one week old I'd guess Sep 12 11:26:49 ;) Sep 12 11:35:20 Hrm, an RC for the Qt SDK Sep 12 11:44:07 i want to make an application that will switch off 3g when the screen baclight times out Sep 12 11:44:18 does such an app already exist? Sep 12 11:44:33 Shapeshifter: but FSO has a holistic approach, integrating ALL subsystems into a nice middleware (eventually, when finished). So no more eleventy different APIs for e.g. liblocation, WLAN mgmnt, phonecalls, mce blinkenlights, screendimming... Sep 12 11:44:36 sorta, its called autodisconnect Sep 12 11:45:46 IcanCU: although such an app is vastly useless Sep 12 11:46:00 is there a way to disable the power kernel and use the normal one without uninstalling it? Sep 12 11:46:16 why would it be DocScrutinizer Sep 12 11:46:33 you usually do NOT want to "switch off 3G", as it's very expensive to switch on again, and almost for free to keep it established Sep 12 11:47:14 expensive in terms of battery? Sep 12 11:47:26 you maybe want to tear down local routing, so no more outbound packets go to 3G Sep 12 11:47:34 yep, in terms of battery Sep 12 11:47:39 ah i see Sep 12 11:48:25 it's not 3G that sucks battery, it's actual data over 3G that does Sep 12 11:48:44 yeah but having an open connection will lead to exchanged data Sep 12 11:48:59 of course if you got a criminal dataplan that's billed by time, you maybe want to do such thing nevertheless Sep 12 11:49:20 kerio: that depends on your local management of apps Sep 12 11:49:36 the facebook widget will refresh once in a while Sep 12 11:49:54 what one wants to have is to have all apps sync so they communicate at the same time Sep 12 11:49:54 kerio: if you can't teach your apps to behave, then it's a stupid approach to tear down whole 3G instead Sep 12 11:50:08 once every five minutes, wake up the 3G from idle and do their things, then go down in idle again. Sep 12 11:50:31 kerio: it shouldn't. It only should do this when screen unblanked, and facebook applet visible Sep 12 11:50:45 oh, makes sense Sep 12 11:52:09 generally you can't fix a broken-by-design app by changing the way connectivity works. At least not when you take such a brute-force approach Sep 12 11:54:08 if facebook app actually does behave like that, it never must go into extras, it needs downvote for that **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 12 11:57:28 2010 Sep 12 12:31:36 Anyone tried dual sim with success? Sep 12 12:36:32 PontusOhman, hmm Sep 12 12:36:38 do dual sims even fit? Sep 12 12:36:59 if you shove them in, sure Sep 12 12:37:01 hey Sep 12 12:37:11 i bought one yesterday Sep 12 12:37:49 i bet you can fit like 7 Sep 12 12:37:50 lcuk: this one for the beloved iphone fits perfectly http://www.eurodualsim.com/site/ Sep 12 12:38:06 lcuk: its a no cut version Sep 12 12:38:38 the second sim sits between the battery and the cover Sep 12 12:38:40 then try it and see Sep 12 12:38:56 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/nokia-N900-FAULTY-/130430754963?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item1e5e476093 Oops. Sep 12 12:38:59 (not mine) Sep 12 12:39:01 Yeah, but I want to check if there will be a menu to use for it :) Sep 12 12:39:34 PontusOhman: there is no stk menu Sep 12 12:39:45 SpeedEvil: awesome Sep 12 12:39:47 BluesLee: Okey =/ Sep 12 12:40:03 PontusOhman: you should use an older phone which has an stk menu Sep 12 12:40:15 PontusOhman: then you activate 007 mode Sep 12 12:40:36 PontusOhman: an then you should switch between the sims with 001+call resp 002.call Sep 12 12:41:21 PontusOhman: unfortunately, it does not work:-) Sep 12 12:41:46 PontusOhman: i may post a thread on talk with screenshots Sep 12 12:44:00 the lovely yellow hildon banners Sep 12 12:44:05 should be tintable Sep 12 12:44:17 when a process goes well, they should be tinted green Sep 12 12:44:26 and when its an error banner it should be tined red Sep 12 12:44:49 BluesLee: what do you mean it does not work? Sep 12 12:44:50 seeing yellow all hte time means you have to read the banner itself to understand its contents - even if you were expecting it Sep 12 12:45:09 (and apps have the worst way of describing things) Sep 12 12:45:55 BluesLee: You are not able to use the adaptor as it is intended? Sep 12 12:47:53 trumee: right Sep 12 12:48:09 Sep 12 12:48:11 trumee: it works with stk mode in other mobiles Sep 12 12:48:53 BluesLee: i am not interested in other mobile. So the verdict is it is useless for N900. No dual sim support. :( Sep 12 12:49:06 trumee: in 007 mode (=using code+call) it generates powercycles Sep 12 12:49:18 trumee: this holds only for the version i mentioned Sep 12 12:49:25 BluesLee: you mean it reboots the phone? Sep 12 12:49:55 trumee: no, it "reboots" the sim Sep 12 12:49:59 i bet cellmo won't like that anyway Sep 12 12:50:06 BluesLee: ah, i see. Sep 12 12:50:26 trumee: it asks for your pin every 30 s Sep 12 12:51:06 there are cut versions which work Sep 12 12:51:12 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=770311&postcount=12 this guys post suggests it works Sep 12 13:03:15 how can i refresh hal in N900? Sep 12 13:06:40 /etc/init.d/hal force-reload did the trick. Sep 12 13:07:41 hey guys whats this wget ? Sep 12 13:08:24 wget is a command line tool to get web and other files Sep 12 13:08:45 http://jdownloader.org/download/index Sep 12 13:08:50 i wanna install this Sep 12 13:09:11 but i need wget probaly Sep 12 13:09:13 for n900 Sep 12 13:09:29 Well - ask them for a n900 version Sep 12 13:09:34 Getting Java to work isn't amazingly trivial, so that's probably not a great idea. Sep 12 13:09:36 hmm oauth fails if you open 2 auth requests from different apps o_O Sep 12 13:09:38 Oh Sep 12 13:09:42 potentially Sep 12 13:09:42 No java Sep 12 13:09:48 so find another downloader Sep 12 13:09:48 There is Java. Sep 12 13:09:53 It's not like there is a shortage Sep 12 13:10:02 But Chibi obviously not has the slightest idea what it's doing. Sep 12 13:10:21 jdownloader is an java application Sep 12 13:10:58 its pretty neat for downloading from links Sep 12 13:11:02 and dlc Sep 12 13:13:22 Khertan_Home, just because I have my keyboard closed does not mean I need to be in portrait mode :$ Sep 12 13:13:38 * lcuk often wiggles keyboard in/out Sep 12 13:17:12 hey my N900 absolutely stop scanning for new media. This includes new pictures by the camera, music, videos, everything.. Any idea what's wrong ? Sep 12 13:17:51 Tracker database is possibly corrupt Sep 12 13:20:32 Blow away /home/user/.cache/tracker/file* Sep 12 13:20:44 you may want to back them up first, just in case Sep 12 13:36:43 * Noobmonk3y waves Sep 12 13:37:24 has anyone else been suffering from the nokia messaging pain in the ass - where it keeps on asking for the password? been happenning for about 5 days now Sep 12 13:39:04 SpeedEvil: removed it, restarted the phone, and it did query for new media. However, only 20 songs of about 400 were found! And same pictures showed up again, didn't get the new ones too.. Sep 12 13:44:11 Hm.. what was the name of the file that runs on USB mass storage connection & disconnection? Sep 12 13:44:19 s/file/shell script/ Sep 12 13:44:21 FireFly meant: Hm.. what was the name of the shell script that runs on USB mass storage connection & disconnection? Sep 12 13:44:31 Err, yes, I did Sep 12 13:45:54 tgalal: you know that if you plug in USB and select mass storage - that the media on it is inaccessible? Sep 12 13:49:57 SpeedEvil: it is accesible normally via mass storage Sep 12 13:54:17 SpeedEvil: is there a way I could track the process of creating the databases so I'd know where it gets stuck Sep 12 13:55:54 umm Sep 12 13:57:13 /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg - thedebug liog verbosity Sep 12 13:57:22 also - installing syslogd Sep 12 14:00:55 SpeedEvil: i changed the verbosity to debug. Where does it show up? Sep 12 14:08:46 syslog I think Sep 12 14:15:10 (/home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg) you can nice trackerd there, strongly recommended Sep 12 14:15:31 Doc: Here? Sep 12 14:17:00 # Sets the indexing speed (0->20, where 20=slowest speed) Sep 12 14:17:02 #Throttle=0 Sep 12 14:17:03 Throttle=10 Sep 12 14:17:23 actually means niceness of tracked process Sep 12 14:17:40 RST38h: wazzup? Sep 12 14:24:01 Anybody used two sixaxis controllers at the same time? Sep 12 14:24:08 RST38h: ?? Sep 12 14:24:22 Doc: Back to out chat about swap fragmentation Sep 12 14:24:38 aah Sep 12 14:24:41 Doc: I have been looking for a Linux utility that would defragment swap in place Sep 12 14:24:46 If both are used together N900 loses its touchscreen functionality. Sep 12 14:24:52 Doc: Which seems logical, even for HDs Sep 12 14:25:01 yo Sep 12 14:25:13 guess there's no such thing though Sep 12 14:25:16 Doc: Have not found any. What I found though is even curioser Sep 12 14:25:21 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=814133#post814133 heres partly my solution. Sep 12 14:25:37 Doc: http://lwn.net/Articles/334649/ Sep 12 14:25:40 Doc: Enjoy Sep 12 14:25:54 Doc: And if you feel like trying it, please do Sep 12 14:26:11 I think somebody did already Sep 12 14:26:16 URL? Sep 12 14:26:19 Crap, dont know its bash3 fault, but if i do a 'wq' or 'x' in vi as root, it freezes the xterm Sep 12 14:26:29 some few days ago, along with crypto Sep 12 14:26:39 although 'q' works ok. Sep 12 14:26:58 Ah: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32105 Sep 12 14:28:25 http://pastebin.ca/1938872 RST38h - on defragging swap Sep 12 14:28:29 ell - not fragging Sep 12 14:28:34 RST38h: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-09-07.log.html#t2010-09-07T20:42:55 Sep 12 14:28:37 an email tro a mailing list that's not gone through Sep 12 14:29:17 Speed: Too complicated, won't ever be implemented, need a ready-made solution =( Sep 12 14:29:54 RST38h: rsp http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=compcache Sep 12 14:29:56 it's a few dozens of lines of C to implement a simple nbd client Sep 12 14:30:57 * RST38h wonders how plain compcache will fare on the N900, with the disk swap off Sep 12 14:32:14 Doc: Ironically, the search result mostly contains questions like mine, we it does look like we have to hunt down and interrogate tobis87 =) Sep 12 14:33:57 hi all, it is possible to get the very latest meego env (i.e. daily trunk builds) for n900's nowadays isn't it? Sep 12 14:34:06 One just has to be prepared to build an img from that daily trunk right? Sep 12 14:34:53 jedlhl: /join #meego-arm Sep 12 14:36:04 thanks im in meego atm but i'll also try meego-arm Sep 12 14:36:05 jedlhl: Weekly, AIUI. But last week's wasn't buildable. Sep 12 14:36:50 yeah apparently: some exceptions if they updated closed blobs (published weekly) but usually latest weeklys work Sep 12 14:37:33 * Jaffa saw you ask it on #meego and Stskeeps' reply Sep 12 14:37:38 * Jaffa goes to bastardise a USB cable. Sep 12 14:37:55 yeah noticed, my bad Sep 12 14:45:01 can i call a chosen contact which is saved on my sim memory via dbus? Sep 12 14:57:10 QMaemo5ListPickSelector is quite a crappy class really .. Sep 12 14:58:53 alterego, propose a better one Sep 12 14:59:10 Actually, looking at it it goes deeper. Sep 12 15:01:17 I wish C++ had closures Sep 12 15:31:01 * alterego ponrders on what to have for dinner. Sep 12 15:31:54 * Noobmonk3y is going out for dinner, yay! no pondering needed.... Sep 12 15:31:59 * Noobmonk3y ponders what to wear.... darnnit Sep 12 15:34:34 Well, until you get there :P Sep 12 15:34:56 Then you'll have to choose from a menu obviously :P Sep 12 15:35:43 lol :P Sep 12 15:36:50 hey Noobmonk3y Sep 12 15:36:55 hey hey luck :) Sep 12 15:36:59 did you break the transitions on my machine Sep 12 15:37:11 Nope, not for lack of trying, but nope lol Sep 12 15:37:16 :D Sep 12 15:37:17 i'm multitasking :P wooohooo go me! Sep 12 15:37:17 heh Sep 12 15:37:20 Think I'll have some toast and then maybe order a pizza later. Sep 12 15:37:44 Playing with Nitdroid - v impressed, whilst configuring exchange in a vmware environment :) Sep 12 15:37:46 My gf has gone away for a week, so I can take this opportunity to chill out have a few beers and do some coding ^.^ Sep 12 15:38:01 alterego, just throw some cheese and tomato and misc fridge fodder onto some toast Sep 12 15:38:10 lcuk, remember how annoyed i was about lack of ide's and pyqt programming.... Sep 12 15:38:13 * lcuk made pizza last night Sep 12 15:38:22 Managed to get a simple app working on nitdroid in under an hour, meh....... Sep 12 15:38:24 potentially Sep 12 15:38:50 yes its easy to get simple apps working Sep 12 15:38:56 well not on maemo :P Sep 12 15:38:59 lcuk: I would, but I have literally nothing in the fridge, we cleaned it out last night before she left. Sep 12 15:39:00 hehe Sep 12 15:39:18 Well, everything except a little pasta sauce. Sep 12 15:39:25 So I could use that, BBQ :) Sep 12 15:40:25 Noobmonk3y, can you develop android apps on the android device? Sep 12 15:40:33 like you pretty much did with healthcheck? Sep 12 15:40:43 ahhh good point, probably not, but wouldnt be doing that most of the time :P Sep 12 15:41:03 lcuk, i only did it a bit on h/c - mainly as i had no pc, but realistically was too cumbersome, allthough good that i could Sep 12 15:41:33 Noobmonk3y, for python, if there was a nice simple ide that talked it would work well Sep 12 15:41:47 yup i agree entirely :) Sep 12 15:41:56 eclipse is getting there with python, just not quite there yet Sep 12 15:42:08 eclipse is like some monster itself Sep 12 15:42:12 yeah hehe Sep 12 15:42:22 it hardly comes into the simple category Sep 12 15:42:42 but one thing an ide does dtart doing - is standardising in a way, it means people can visually see and adapt quickly, might be a monster, but does help quick development Sep 12 15:42:55 after the year of configuring it :P Sep 12 15:42:58 exclipse, picking up where the emacs as OS left off Sep 12 15:43:12 haha Sep 12 15:43:22 -x Sep 12 15:46:51 as if emacs had left of :/ Sep 12 15:46:55 s/of// Sep 12 15:46:55 Corsac meant: as if emacs had left :/ Sep 12 16:13:36 Noobmonk3y, so are you pushing your hardco errr H/C to different platform then Sep 12 16:13:51 naaaaaa, was just testing the waters :P - staying with mameo :P Sep 12 16:16:08 * lcuk thought your app ran on maemo, what is this mameo you speak of :p Sep 12 16:16:51 mameo must be the new secret nokia mobile OS that can brew coffee Sep 12 16:17:42 mobile coffee brewing is so old hat Sep 12 16:17:51 the next generation mobiles will run on fuelcells Sep 12 16:17:56 and can share vodka with you Sep 12 16:26:06 lol Sep 12 16:29:09 since n900 is a linux based phone does it support wine ? Sep 12 16:29:17 No. Sep 12 16:29:24 that would require an x86 CPU Sep 12 16:29:25 Wine is not an emulator. Sep 12 16:29:35 i see Sep 12 16:32:19 qemu! Sep 12 16:33:48 Hi Maemo people Sep 12 16:43:21 kerio: bochs + win NT Sep 12 16:43:26 heh Sep 12 16:43:28 how about NO Sep 12 16:46:41 bacon nfused vodka Sep 12 16:46:57 i want qemu Sep 12 16:47:03 infused (darn, need to boot and vacuum my kbd) Sep 12 16:48:15 your kbd has an OS? Sep 12 16:48:19 yeah, you better turn it on Sep 12 16:48:52 cons of a laptop: low profile keyboard (no space for bread crumbs), and can't unplug kbd to clean with vacuum Sep 12 16:49:48 turn upside down and bash repeatedly Sep 12 16:50:16 scoop crumbs into a pile and nibble for the rest of the afternoon Sep 12 16:50:25 lol Sep 12 16:50:38 doesn't help as gap between keys is too small so crumbs will only come out when pressing keys to open up sufficient gap Sep 12 16:50:56 i have a gap between keys :D Sep 12 16:51:52 even then crumbs will stay where they are: inside key caps Sep 12 16:52:12 Advantage of N900 keyboard: the gap between keys is too small for any dirt to get in there Sep 12 16:52:19 but lcuk, that was lol Sep 12 16:53:24 the n810 keyboard was crumbsafe Sep 12 16:53:37 but the 810 and 900 have a different issue Sep 12 16:53:41 sand in the slider! Sep 12 16:53:49 eeeeeek Sep 12 16:53:50 it makes a god awful noise when you get it Sep 12 16:54:20 I finally saw an N810 live on the mobile linux applications course, and it looked very good Sep 12 16:54:25 yeah, actually N900 is anti-ruggedized Sep 12 16:54:34 any ideas if nokia will release a N900 with a capacitive screen? Sep 12 16:54:40 shadeslayer: go away Sep 12 16:54:48 actually, I would prefer an N900 with the N810's colors and design Sep 12 16:54:48 kerio: :P Sep 12 16:54:48 no way Sep 12 16:55:00 why? Sep 12 16:55:10 arent capacitive screens the norm now? Sep 12 16:55:24 for dickphones Sep 12 16:55:33 fsck crappy c-ts. No stylus, no resolution Sep 12 16:55:33 shadeslayer: capactive screens are crap Sep 12 16:55:52 why? Sep 12 16:56:06 *serious* lack of precision Sep 12 16:56:08 like a good cake: Sep 12 16:56:10 i mean, it's ridiculous Sep 12 16:56:15 shadeslayer: because they are inaccurate and unusable with anything but bare fingers Sep 12 16:56:18 single layer capacitive screens are good, but dual layered mixed mode are better. Sep 12 16:57:00 oic Sep 12 16:58:05 resistive ones are better IMO Sep 12 16:58:43 <3 n900 r-ts Sep 12 16:59:11 DocScrutinizer: "r-ts" = ? Sep 12 16:59:23 resistive touch-screen? Sep 12 16:59:43 K Sep 12 17:00:07 i really do want a n900... just cant afford it right now :P Sep 12 17:00:31 also... is there a SDK or developer channel for maemo ? Sep 12 17:00:48 shadeslayer: wait for the next model, then the N900's price will sink down Sep 12 17:01:04 I honestly doubt that Sep 12 17:01:06 shadeslayer: yes, #maemo-devel and #qt-maemo Sep 12 17:01:10 Venemo_N900: next model of N900? haha :P Sep 12 17:02:06 shadeslayer: next model will be called N9 afaik Sep 12 17:02:15 most probably next device is crap by spec. like c-ts, no hw-kbd and whatnot Sep 12 17:02:15 oic Sep 12 17:02:40 or it's N9 Sep 12 17:03:00 Well, noone knows for sure Sep 12 17:03:09 anyway don't hold your breath for considerably lower prices of N900 Sep 12 17:03:27 lcuk: so you can do multitouch ungloved but still use the stylu for precision or cold weather? Sep 12 17:03:30 N810 still is ~240EUR Sep 12 17:03:45 Dhraak[n900], yes Sep 12 17:03:51 i write a lot Sep 12 17:04:03 and its impossible with a frozen sausage Sep 12 17:04:15 you can do mt on r-ts! Sep 12 17:04:33 Venemo_N900: http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n9-3398.php << OS : Symbian^3 .. lol Sep 12 17:04:47 DocScrutinizer, sure Sep 12 17:04:52 i showed it on my 810 Sep 12 17:05:01 and its an embedded standard part of liqbase :P Sep 12 17:05:14 I got my n900 off ebay last month for $354 or so with all retail-box accessories and several screen protectors Sep 12 17:05:30 looks sweet Sep 12 17:05:33 I guess that's fake mt though, as neither N810 nor N900 have the hw for true mt Sep 12 17:05:39 specially the screen tilting Sep 12 17:05:47 shadeslayer: not announced yet officially, so as I said, noone knows Sep 12 17:06:01 Venemo_N900: ok... Sep 12 17:06:09 fake mt? Sep 12 17:06:22 Dhraak[n900], sure Sep 12 17:06:30 how's that work? Sep 12 17:06:38 on the n800 Sep 12 17:06:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJWvvn_cePM Sep 12 17:06:41 see for yourself Sep 12 17:06:47 install liqbase on it Sep 12 17:06:51 try it out even :P Sep 12 17:07:03 I know my laptop's touchpad can emulate multifinger taps Sep 12 17:08:05 on fake mt the driver will detect 2 touchpoints as one touchpoint that moves very fast to a new pos, and increases area/pressure Sep 12 17:08:09 (oh, your n900 still doesn't have complete liqbase rebuild Sep 12 17:08:10 * Dhraak[n900] needs to actually look into changing default apps Sep 12 17:08:16 * lcuk hmmms and ponders releasing it again Sep 12 17:09:04 had to cp/paste that url into fennec Sep 12 17:09:09 so basically what fake mt does is gesture recog rather than true mt Sep 12 17:09:39 DocScrutinizer, it has finger recognisers and works out when you break the laws of physics Sep 12 17:09:55 ok, fair enough Sep 12 17:10:00 so that "oh look, you couldnt have possibly moved that far in one step, its a second finger" Sep 12 17:10:04 ...and, evil as it may be, perhaps get flash working in fennec Sep 12 17:13:54 lcuk: true mt on r-ts works with such simple methods like probing current flowing thru the gradient plane. or - even better - on true 5 wire r-ts you get mt basically for free Sep 12 17:15:57 though you can do a "sequential fake 5 wire" on a genuine 4 wire r-ts, if your driver hw isn't too braindamaged Sep 12 17:16:21 DocScrutinizer, with 5 wire you cannot do pixel by pixel MT addressing Sep 12 17:17:02 you need to implement the sort of 4 element per pixel thing that the statum device uses Sep 12 17:17:03 could I get that mt youtube link again? Sep 12 17:17:12 I guess there's not a single technology for ts that does MT on a pixel resolution Sep 12 17:17:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJWvvn_cePM Sep 12 17:17:29 thanks Sep 12 17:18:04 DocScrutinizer, Stantum MT resistive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc Sep 12 17:18:08 * Dhraak[n900] burned some battery on a reboot Sep 12 17:18:37 yeah those buggers stolen my ideas :-P Sep 12 17:18:57 DocScrutinizer: SAW will. Sep 12 17:19:00 DocScrutinizer, homemade LED arrays Sep 12 17:19:05 can do output and per pixel input Sep 12 17:19:23 by measuing the current drop as the LED absorbs some of the reflected light from neighbours Sep 12 17:20:43 LED array with touch input: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2v4-QvGuU Sep 12 17:21:25 * Dhraak[n900] wonders how hard it'd be to change the okuda theme to TNG LCARS colors Sep 12 17:23:38 ok, my gmail account has been sending massive amounts of spam Sep 12 17:23:40 lcuk: optical touchscreens largely incapable to work with stylus Sep 12 17:23:45 steps to figure it out? Sep 12 17:23:54 sure Sep 12 17:23:58 SpeedEvil: yep, saw is a nice technology Sep 12 17:24:09 * lcuk is just showing there is a lot of thought already gone into this and similar fields Sep 12 17:24:23 crashanddie, "sending"? Sep 12 17:24:32 I once got joejobbed Sep 12 17:24:42 and had ~20k bounces in a day Sep 12 17:24:46 lcuk: I have about 300 emails in my "sent" directory Sep 12 17:24:50 with about 100 bounces Sep 12 17:24:54 then stop sending them Sep 12 17:24:59 well, I didn't Sep 12 17:25:06 it's a phishing email for World of Warcraft Sep 12 17:25:10 or look on the bottom of the screen for the ip addresses of people connected Sep 12 17:25:32 yeah, nothing Sep 12 17:25:36 you still play wow :P Sep 12 17:25:43 nope Sep 12 17:25:52 I've never played with that account Sep 12 17:26:13 lcuk: I gather Stantum is 5wire r-ts Sep 12 17:26:20 DocScrutinizer, no Sep 12 17:26:27 you cant do that with only 5 wires Sep 12 17:26:51 uh, so what else? Sep 12 17:27:03 'multi-wire'? Sep 12 17:27:21 its the only feasible way for true mt Sep 12 17:27:27 you saw the video Sep 12 17:27:32 there has to be a grid Sep 12 17:28:16 hmm, for 4touch, yes possibly amount of generic data from 5wire is too low Sep 12 17:28:57 Thing is, my computer has been off all day Sep 12 17:29:03 and it's been sending spam all afternoon Sep 12 17:29:11 I've changed the password, crap. Sep 12 17:29:23 so you add points all over the sensing plane area, not only probing the 4 corners Sep 12 17:30:26 where does the n900 keep recorded videos Sep 12 17:30:30 as long as there are no more tha 2 touchpoints inside area of the square built by 4 sensing points, you're fine Sep 12 17:33:10 pronto: either on uSD, or on /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM Sep 12 17:34:21 back Sep 12 17:41:34 * Dhraak[n900] wonders how best to (and whether he wants to) get flash in fennec Sep 12 17:42:16 think I'll leave that taint isolated in microB Sep 12 17:44:57 is there something like emule for n900 ? Sep 12 17:46:12 good grief HAM is a disgrace. Sep 12 17:46:16 ._. Sep 12 17:47:38 HAM? Sep 12 17:48:07 harmattan fuckin' application manager Sep 12 17:48:23 ah Sep 12 17:49:09 Shapeshifter, err Sep 12 17:49:16 "hildon application manager"? Sep 12 17:49:22 oops Sep 12 17:49:23 and disable -devel and -testing Sep 12 17:49:24 indeed Sep 12 17:49:31 lcuk: and end up with what? Sep 12 17:49:31 and push devs to get their apps in shape without needing them Sep 12 17:50:04 lcuk: are you suggesting that it's reasonable that HAM can only cope with a limited, small number of applications? Sep 12 17:50:05 you are trying to load in every version of every app developed and constantly refreshing them Sep 12 17:50:10 lcuk: well, they kinda need to pass -devel and -testing to get to extras.. :p Sep 12 17:50:16 frals, sure Sep 12 17:50:26 hence people need them active ;-) Sep 12 17:50:44 I would rather find an alternative :P Sep 12 17:50:52 and they only need -testing to be fair Sep 12 17:50:55 lcuk: I usually don't make this lame comparison, but look at the iphone... or android. people browsing applications don't want to wait 3 minutes for the index to load. and there really aren't many applications for the N900, even including -testing and -devel. Sep 12 17:51:08 it's an overviewable list you can even browse through by hand in about 15 minutes Sep 12 17:51:24 it's simply a disgrace. Sep 12 17:51:27 Shapeshifter, download assistance works on the web in a similar manner to those other devices Sep 12 17:51:58 and Shapeshifter the guy who wrote fapman tried it Sep 12 17:52:09 so you grab that Sep 12 17:53:13 fapman is alsoslowupdatingindices Sep 12 17:53:27 indeed Sep 12 17:53:32 May I once again suggest reanimating PackRat? Sep 12 17:53:35 latest version is slower than other Sep 12 17:53:43 lcuk: so you disagree that the whole package management through app with the inane HAM as its frontend is a horrible solution for the n900? Sep 12 17:53:56 lcuk: you can't be seriously suggesting that HAM is "good" Sep 12 17:53:56 Because it will do exactly what you all want - fast server-side package browsing Sep 12 17:54:09 Shapeshifter, i think there is no viable alternative solution at this point Sep 12 17:54:18 lcuk: There is Sep 12 17:54:19 Hey again Sep 12 17:54:22 but with some work, some others may present themselves Sep 12 17:55:09 lcuk: Open this in MicroB on your tablet: http://ageofikon.info/packrat/ Sep 12 17:55:13 RST38h, server side in what regard Sep 12 17:55:58 lcuk: Check the url Sep 12 17:56:22 i am Sep 12 17:56:25 lcuk: You can browse one or more repositories this way, installing stuff by clicking on install Sep 12 17:56:43 RST38h: did you make this? Sep 12 17:56:44 ohoi Sep 12 17:56:46 lcuk: It works instantly (the app lists being kept at the server) and roughly corresponds to Ovi Sep 12 17:56:51 but that still has its issues Sep 12 17:56:51 Shapeshifter: yes Sep 12 17:57:05 Hm... what is the file that contains the repositories' data? Sep 12 17:57:08 lcuk: Of course it does. A few you will have to live with, others can be fixed trivially Sep 12 17:57:12 RST38h: I'm probably stupid but I cannot see how to "browse" and not search this... Sep 12 17:57:26 Shapeshifter: That is one thing that has to be fixed Sep 12 17:57:27 RST38h, the main one being the "apt-get update" and huge local package lists Sep 12 17:57:38 which is exactly the same as fapman Sep 12 17:57:44 Shapeshifter: A separate page has to be added to browse by category Sep 12 17:58:20 lcuk: well, you can serve a package directly in .deb form via http Sep 12 17:58:31 dependencies Sep 12 17:59:08 lcuk: create a personalized repo where the web site loads user's packages Sep 12 17:59:12 lcuk: what about them. you can pull those as well. Sep 12 17:59:14 and their dependencies Sep 12 17:59:20 is there any software on N900 which allows to rate music. Sep 12 17:59:23 and you are at the PPA stage Sep 12 17:59:24 :) Sep 12 17:59:39 I want a way to rate music and then generate playlist of rated music. Sep 12 18:01:17 RST38h, for normal humans and path of least resistence - pushing as many apps onto extras itself is a benefit Sep 12 18:01:45 because then the need to use -devel by default can be sidestepped as much as possible Sep 12 18:01:54 lcuk: obviously, powers that set extras promotion policies are not normal humans Sep 12 18:02:14 lcuk: Most normal humans have understood this by now and simply enabled -testing and -devel Sep 12 18:02:14 HellOlAloHallOhayo.. I HI.. Sep 12 18:02:24 RST38h, no Sep 12 18:02:32 yes, lcuk, unfortunately Sep 12 18:04:36 hmm. amarok has that feature but have never used it. Sep 12 18:31:41 hi, when i select usb mode my linux does only see my emc as sdb and not my mmc memory card does not seem to be exported anyone know why? Sep 12 18:32:46 heh nice, SHR on n900, open embedded variant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI looks fast and has lots of compatability with existing things (shows numpty working :D) Sep 12 18:33:05 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62152 thread on it Sep 12 18:35:30 ponyofdeath, there's probably something running on the N900 that's using the emmc Sep 12 18:35:57 ShadowJK: ahh let me check i think i installed lsof Sep 12 18:37:18 ShadowJK: does not look like it Sep 12 18:38:06 lsof | grep MyDocs ? Sep 12 18:38:52 ShadowJK: well no this is for /media/mmc1 Sep 12 18:39:03 Mydocs shows up as sdb Sep 12 18:39:21 oh it was the reverse of what i thought it read Sep 12 18:39:25 ShadowJK: but my addon sd card does not Sep 12 18:40:00 ShadowJK: yeah not sure if it needs an separate usb module to get detected or what Sep 12 18:40:01 lcuk: well, those openmoko devices are said to be really slow (haven't tested any myself) so no wonder those things will run well on the N900 :>! Sep 12 18:40:36 Funnyface, of course Sep 12 18:40:48 optimising for a lower spec device makes it looks really slick on faster Sep 12 18:40:57 yeah Sep 12 18:41:04 I just wish they'd do that for anything new :P Sep 12 18:41:04 its something I have tried to drill into many folks for a while :) Sep 12 18:41:15 most progress in hardware is eaten by inefficient software Sep 12 18:41:31 I'd really love to see something like windows 95 booted on a modern PC :P Sep 12 18:41:31 and designing software from comfort of your multi ghz machine Sep 12 18:41:48 I used transitioncontrol to pretty much make all transitions instant, it seems more slick that way Sep 12 18:42:01 Funnyface: Shouldn't be that hard. :P Sep 12 18:42:11 I remember somebody telling that he runs Win95 just for the speed. Sep 12 18:42:59 Shadikka: well, my win95 system used to boot just about as fast as my current win7 system does Sep 12 18:43:03 :P Sep 12 18:43:23 I wonder how microsoft can claim that every new version of windows is "faster and more efficient than ever before" Sep 12 18:43:42 because you generally buy it on hardware that runs faster Sep 12 18:43:49 exactly :P Sep 12 18:44:36 if it is so much faster, maybe I should stick win7 on my old PC Sep 12 18:44:48 just too bad it won't run on 32MB of RAM :P Sep 12 18:45:25 well he not running windows95 for the security Sep 12 18:46:07 whats wrong with security on win95? Sep 12 18:46:12 they're talking about the user experience Sep 12 18:46:39 Well, on the other hand, Win95 is so old that if there's anything still around that exploits it, it's slightly surprising. Sep 12 18:46:51 ^^ Sep 12 18:47:16 Shadikka: you're assuming that the current exploits don't work on 95 there. Sep 12 18:48:07 true. Sep 12 18:48:16 well it can't be that bad, run it behind NAT, and use modern software on it Sep 12 18:49:53 win95 had ping of death didnt it? Sep 12 18:50:20 I think the early ones did Sep 12 18:50:38 think so, but that got patched, if update applied or you had a service release of it i think Sep 12 18:51:18 they had something called Windows 95 "B" or something that had it fixed Sep 12 18:51:37 yeah win95B had usb support too Sep 12 18:52:49 but if using ie3 (think ie4 was with an update) then definately some browser exploits that would effect it Sep 12 19:06:43 who booted widows on the n900? Sep 12 19:06:48 windows Sep 12 19:19:38 'Galileo Was Wrong' is an inaugural conference to discuss the 'detailed and comprehensive treatment of the scientific evidence supporting Geocentrism, the academic belief that the Earth is immobile in the center of the universe. Sep 12 19:19:59 'Scientific evidence available to us within the last 100 years that was not available during Galileo's confrontation shows that the [Catholic] Church's position on the immobility of the Earth is not only scientifically supportable, but it is the most stable model of the universe and the one which best answers all the evidence we see in the cosmos.' Sep 12 19:20:31 * RST38h read it as "100 metres" rather than "100 years" first, but anyway... Sep 12 19:24:29 hey Sep 12 19:25:05 can someone tell me, if i can use gfire pidgin plugin on my n900 somehow?!?! pls help!! :$ Sep 12 19:25:27 no. Sep 12 19:25:37 =( Sep 12 19:25:57 so xfire is unable on n900? Sep 12 19:26:03 qwebirc19741: In principle - it would need compiled. Sep 12 19:26:16 hm Sep 12 19:26:24 Speed: If he could recompile stuff he wouldn't be asking Sep 12 19:26:37 yeah =D tru Sep 12 19:26:59 as you see, im totally noob to these stuffs =( Sep 12 19:27:25 moin Sep 12 20:01:39 luke-jr: around? Sep 12 20:19:11 Half way season 2 of SG-1 .. Sep 12 20:19:45 It's been a good Sunday, got some nice coding done, had some pizza and a few beers. Sep 12 20:19:46 alterego, how is your app coming on? Sep 12 20:20:03 Pretty good. Sep 12 20:20:37 screenies or updates? is it converted to qml yet? Sep 12 20:20:56 Past few sessions I've been heavily refactoring the configuration areas. Sep 12 20:21:13 Funny you should mention that, I've actually been working on porting some of my widgets to QML :) Sep 12 20:21:18 any debian packagers fancy packaging a tool to help me setup management around the meego community cluster? http://www.heiho.net/synctool/ Sep 12 20:22:49 Unfortunately, all my attempts to get a Qt 4.7 toolchain and madde working together have failed. Sep 12 20:23:06 So I'm kinda stuck waiting for Qt SDK 2 Sep 12 20:23:25 Downloaded the RC today, but it doesn't contain any maemo stuff :/ Sep 12 20:24:02 Also, qml-launcher has for some reason stopped working on my N900 :/ Sep 12 20:24:09 And I'm not really prepared to reflash just yet. Sep 12 20:45:19 alterego, hmm Sep 12 20:45:26 you sound like you goosed it up slightly Sep 12 20:49:16 I don't see how :/ I do very little lower than app development. Sep 12 20:50:10 It just stopped working, around the time I installed an fcam update but I can't believe that actually had anything to do with it. Sep 12 21:01:41 BTW, why are Modest people not updating their source code in git? Sep 12 21:03:46 where are you seeing commits being made? Sep 12 21:06:20 Why aren't people modifying hildon doing the same? Sep 12 21:06:21 :) Sep 12 21:06:32 Has MohammadAG51 submitted his patches? Sep 12 21:06:49 does he have any patches? Sep 12 21:06:50 clean specific patches pending :) Sep 12 21:07:01 :) Sep 12 21:07:07 Hasn't he taken the current version of hildon-desktop and compiled it? Sep 12 21:07:39 Various people have added modifications aswell, implementing functionality, one of which I believe is to do with application launcher scroll speed. Sep 12 21:07:42 we have various tips of HD, but no bugfix commits to send through review Sep 12 21:07:45 yes RST38h Sep 12 21:08:15 But with two different mods, one using gconf and the other transition files. Sep 12 21:08:17 alterego, implementing new functionality technically has specific issues without much more discussion Sep 12 21:08:25 (I personally prefer MohammadAG51's transition file approach tbh) Sep 12 21:08:38 but patches to unfixed bugs could be sent down a different track easily. Sep 12 21:09:04 scroll speed is a reversion of a change made by madam Sep 12 21:09:10 alterego: the scroll speed thing is in the svn Sep 12 21:09:17 alterego: committed by the maintainer Sep 12 21:09:37 Oh, cool Sep 12 21:09:50 alterego: I suggested an icon rotation feature that can be added relatively easily Sep 12 21:10:07 But nobody is willing to try adding it, and I do not have the time myself Sep 12 21:10:13 RST38h, there is already a test branch which does portrait switcher in the open somewhere Sep 12 21:10:36 lcuk: yes, but the full portrait switch is way more intrusive Sep 12 21:10:51 lcuk: not clear what to do with the desktop content too Sep 12 21:10:54 Yay, branches .. Sep 12 21:11:05 rotating the icons is a neater idea imho Sep 12 21:11:17 lessrstdesktop content has been contentious for a while as we know Sep 12 21:11:21 So, Nokia drop hildon, who picks it up? :) Sep 12 21:11:22 and I 100% agree Sep 12 21:18:43 alterego, not dropped, given freedom, if we want it hildon on meego etc we have to get used to dealing with it in the community. Sep 12 21:19:41 lcuk: we do not want hildon on meego Sep 12 21:20:18 lcuk: we need meego devices with well maintained firmware and stable APIs that do not change every year Sep 12 21:20:44 sure RST38h Sep 12 21:20:46 hildon itself is not some religious symbol that you want to carry on at any cost Sep 12 21:21:01 i dont want to, but theres a lot of apps, gtk or qt Sep 12 21:21:01 it is a framework. qt is another framework. I can live with either. Sep 12 21:21:06 that depend upon the libraries within Sep 12 21:21:23 lcuk: People will switch from gtk apps to qt ones, but nothing will change overally Sep 12 21:21:36 yes, there will be some apps we will lose, but we will gain some new ones Sep 12 21:21:47 sure Sep 12 21:21:52 as I've said, maintaining hildon compatibility is not a bug issue Sep 12 21:22:03 for you perhaps Sep 12 21:22:17 But having two incompatible Qt-based APIs that do the same and are not compatible qith Qt base IS AN ISSUE Sep 12 21:22:36 You don't have to agree with it RST38h but if people want it, then they'll have it. Sep 12 21:22:42 Of course none of us can do anything about it, as it is once again a matter of Nokia internal politics Sep 12 21:22:52 There was interested in a MeeGo with a more Maemo UX Sep 12 21:22:57 s/interested/interest Sep 12 21:23:17 RST38h, for the greater majority of apps, hildon compatability will be an issue at least for a short time Sep 12 21:23:20 alterego: Yea, I am not arguing that some people may want it, but strongly doubt it is going to be of wide public interest. Most users and developers will just move on Sep 12 21:23:28 until mechanisms to translate that knowledge are in place Sep 12 21:23:42 Most users and developers hopefully wont be moving at all. Sep 12 21:23:56 lcuk: it will be the same as with maemo5. 2-4 months of no-apps, then everything back to normal. Sep 12 21:23:57 I'd imagine the advent of MeeGo will obviously introduce far more developers and users from outside of MeeGo Sep 12 21:24:14 2nd MeeGo was Maemo there ;) Sep 12 21:24:20 lcuk: Unless, of course, Nokia and Intel successfully manage to alienate whatever community developers they have got left Sep 12 21:24:51 RST38h, we have known about the qt transition for >12months Sep 12 21:24:58 I don't think that will happen, not on a mass scale, those of us that are still here are obviously well informed about what is happening. Sep 12 21:25:13 The largest factor I think for most of us is access to devices .. Sep 12 21:25:17 and the changes in maemo5 was known for a long while too Sep 12 21:25:18 alterego: Well, meego.com is not nearly as inclusive as maemo.org. They do not appear to be interested in anyone not directly contributing to their corporate projects Sep 12 21:25:19 and to date I have yet to see a single app taken bodily from gtk to qt Sep 12 21:25:39 lcuk: And you may have noticed a multitude of Qt apps in Maemo repos Sep 12 21:25:42 the first action came when there was a new device Sep 12 21:25:48 RST38h, sure Sep 12 21:25:54 Stskeeps: agreed. Sep 12 21:25:54 but many of those are written with hildon in mind Sep 12 21:25:55 lcuk: Conversion from GTK to Qt is never going to happen, so no wonder Sep 12 21:26:09 lcuk: It is easier to write an app from scratch. Or at least rewrite the UI. Sep 12 21:26:18 oh I totally know that! Sep 12 21:26:20 many most likely want to get away from GObject braindamage too Sep 12 21:26:26 lcuk: So, as I have said, the set of apps will change Sep 12 21:26:29 or give qt that shot they always wanted Sep 12 21:26:47 STskeeps: As weird as it may sound, I do not give a shit about GObject or QObject Sep 12 21:27:02 Stskeeps: As long as I get to do what I want to do with the minimum overhead Sep 12 21:27:06 gobject isnt braindamage, its reasonable compromise Sep 12 21:27:33 like anycodebase Sep 12 21:27:53 Stskeeps: What I so far see in Qt is that the ownership of objects is often muddied. You add a widget to another widget and you are no longer sure who owns the pointer to the first widet Sep 12 21:28:32 Stskeeps: Maybe I simply missed some important piece of documentation though. But if not, we will get way more leakage bugs with Qt Sep 12 21:28:33 RST38h: heck if i know.. qt is on my list of things to learn Sep 12 21:28:40 I admit, it is somewhat confusing, but Qt uses reference counting .. Sep 12 21:28:49 So as long as it has a parent you shouldn't worry about it Sep 12 21:28:53 RST38h: i just know what headaches i've had from gobject Sep 12 21:29:06 alterego: Except that the definition of parent is kinda muddied too Sep 12 21:29:21 RST38h: not really, an object can only have one parent. Sep 12 21:29:23 so I have apparently bricked my N900. I am trying to cold flash Fremantle onto it again, but flasher-3.5 keeps telling me "You have to supply the 2nd image". What am I doing wrong? Sep 12 21:29:31 Though the parent can be changed. Sep 12 21:29:32 STskeeps: Yea, GObject is someone really hating C++ trying to implement C++ in C :) Sep 12 21:30:08 Actually, GObject was devised more to interface with other languages, object-orientation was the design paradigm they chose, didn't have much to do with C++ per se. Sep 12 21:30:12 alterego: Yet, when you add a widget to the layout, the docs say that "the layout takes the ownership". Is layout a parent now? Or not? And who is the parent? Sep 12 21:30:36 alterego: yet everyone ended up doing strange C programs with it.. Sep 12 21:30:47 alterego: Of course. And it is completely incidental that their Vala language got to look exactly like C++ Sep 12 21:30:58 vala should have come first, not gobject Sep 12 21:30:58 :P Sep 12 21:31:11 RST38h: well, similar, it's more C# than C++ imo :P Sep 12 21:31:17 alterego: yea, right :) Sep 12 21:31:18 if native C had supported object.method(args) syntax, most of c++ and vala could go out the window :D Sep 12 21:31:24 Though I'm not intimately familiar with vala :) Sep 12 21:31:35 lcuk: "nativeC supporting methods" is otherwise known as C++ :) Sep 12 21:31:48 sure CFont did basically that Sep 12 21:31:50 Regardless of these points, at least we're not using Objective-C like those iPhone nerds :P Sep 12 21:31:51 but then it evolved! Sep 12 21:31:55 feature creep! Sep 12 21:31:55 lcuk: Which, believe it or not, ANYONE can use using the same GCC compiler :) Sep 12 21:32:11 alterego, sigh Sep 12 21:32:14 lcuk: YOu are not forced to use the complete C++ standard Sep 12 21:32:22 a fully OO language is good Sep 12 21:32:27 of course RST38h Sep 12 21:32:33 lcuk: I'm sorry, do you like Obj-C? :) Sep 12 21:32:38 and liqbase is now built with g++ Sep 12 21:32:40 Like Ruby .. Sep 12 21:32:42 lcuk: In fact, I regularly tell our developers to avoid doing so if they want to stay sane and in one piece Sep 12 21:32:50 i build regular c stuff Sep 12 21:32:56 but have option to upgrade as required Sep 12 21:33:14 it causes some minor tweaks but nothing drastic Sep 12 21:33:16 C++ isn't really an OO language, Smalltalk is :) Sep 12 21:33:21 sure Sep 12 21:33:27 But never tell it to C++ gurus ;) Sep 12 21:33:35 Ruby, C#, Java, Smalltalk .. Sep 12 21:33:41 OO to most people is the runtime meta info and introspection Sep 12 21:33:46 Oberon, anyone? Sep 12 21:33:50 which had to be tacked on to give it to qt Sep 12 21:33:56 vb.net! Sep 12 21:33:56 PERL5+? Latest PHP? Sep 12 21:34:04 yuk :P Sep 12 21:34:08 Objective PROLOG... Sep 12 21:34:14 i like the .net core system Sep 12 21:34:17 but dislike its ide Sep 12 21:34:27 FORTRAN++ Sep 12 21:34:50 You can create goddamn objects in any language, with a bit of syntactic glue Sep 12 21:35:05 It is important to only create them when they FUCKING MAKE SENSE Sep 12 21:35:05 I object! Sep 12 21:35:13 Hahah Sep 12 21:36:04 OO is encapsulation and polymorphism. Sep 12 21:36:16 RTTI and introspection is something else. Sep 12 21:36:57 [COROLLARY: That is why you should never make students read books on OOP and design methods. The feeble minded are too easy to go mad after that.] Sep 12 21:37:13 derf: OO is when everything is an object Sep 12 21:37:34 derf: Blocks of code are not objects in C++. Neither are atomic types, really. Sep 12 21:37:48 That's "pure OO"... it gets a extra word because it's a stupid thing to do. Sep 12 21:37:49 python doesn't let me subclass modules :( Sep 12 21:37:56 derf: In fact, types are not objects (can't do stuff like int.size() :)) Sep 12 21:38:07 You can in some languages :) Sep 12 21:38:23 Well, where int.size actually makes any sense :P Sep 12 21:38:24 derf: Only gets an extra word because C++ gurus do not want to accept that their glorified C preprocessor is not OOP ;) Sep 12 21:38:53 "C++ gurus"? Sep 12 21:38:56 I hate C++. Sep 12 21:39:05 derf: then you should understand Sep 12 21:39:07 * RST38h cackles Sep 12 21:39:37 I mean, it's not like Smalltalk is better. Sep 12 21:39:37 Real OOP probably wouldn't run as fast as C/C++ programs do... Sep 12 21:39:43 derf: of course not Sep 12 21:39:52 It's a cute little language, but I wouldn't want to actually write software in it. Sep 12 21:40:11 derf: but that is the point, nobody really wants to USE a real OOP language Sep 12 21:40:16 derf: too unpractical Sep 12 21:40:26 I agree with you. Sep 12 21:40:37 Similar subject: real functional language, like LISP Sep 12 21:40:41 I was objecting mostly to lcuk's definition of OO. Sep 12 21:40:44 Very elegant but a bitch to use Sep 12 21:41:12 heretic! :P Sep 12 21:41:17 derf, most people when asked respond like that Sep 12 21:41:26 (CDR sp3000) Sep 12 21:41:31 lcuk: Most people are idiots. Sep 12 21:41:55 At least when it comes to programming. Sep 12 21:43:14 is it this kind of negativity that makes qt difficult or people? Sep 12 21:43:33 for ^ Sep 12 21:44:15 why do you think qt is difficult? Sep 12 21:44:52 I thought everyone loved Qt. Sep 12 21:45:01 It's a cute little language, but I wouldn't want to actually write software in it. Sep 12 21:45:15 lcuk: derf said that about Smalltalk Sep 12 21:45:36 I quite like it, but there's not really enough description of some of the lower level fundamentals that stop me from freaking out. Sep 12 21:45:47 Like the whole reference counting by parents etc. Sep 12 21:45:47 reasonable enough RST38h Sep 12 21:46:09 Documentation is always poor. Sep 12 21:46:20 I _still_ have no idea what the GTK reference counting rules are. Sep 12 21:46:32 And I've been using it for some ridiculous number of years now. Sep 12 21:47:10 allocate what you need, release it when its done, be sensible. should be the ref counting rules for every object Sep 12 21:47:29 Actually, I found gtk better, it generally tells you when you need to destroy objects you get etc. Sep 12 21:47:34 but devs get lazy and say "oh the garbage collection will get it" Sep 12 21:47:54 Though, with the appropriate C++ qualifiers you get a decent indication ;) Sep 12 21:48:05 alterego: I meant more once you put things in the widget hierarchy. Sep 12 21:49:45 But lcuk is right. If you have to think about it too hard, then the system is designed wrong. Sep 12 21:50:31 yo Sep 12 21:50:35 Agreed Sep 12 21:51:07 maemo.org or me fail? Sep 12 22:03:14 http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/maemo.com Sep 12 22:03:40 .org ofc Sep 12 22:12:40 does anyone know where you're supposed to find sygic mobile maps 10 for the n900? the one on ovi store is still 9 for me. Sep 12 22:12:49 w00t!! i just booted my N900 with u-boot :D Sep 12 22:17:29 b-man`, do wild ducks!!! Sep 12 22:17:44 lol Sep 12 22:17:53 Get symbian^3 running Sep 12 22:18:13 sure, i'll try lol Sep 12 22:18:42 I'm not kidding Sep 12 22:18:52 Get symbian^3 running Sep 12 22:19:00 i wanna see what they did to that crap Sep 12 22:19:05 i'm not kidding either :) Sep 12 22:19:15 MohammadAG51, btw Sep 12 22:19:19 if you wanna try Sep 12 22:19:35 i have the u-boot image that i builded uploaded Sep 12 22:19:44 *built Sep 12 22:20:32 http://b-man.xceleo.org/files/u-boot-2.6.28.10debian38.bin Sep 12 22:21:10 flasher-3.5 -k u-boot-2.6.28.10debian38.bin -f -R Sep 12 22:21:51 zImage? Sep 12 22:22:11 it's both u-boot and zImage Sep 12 22:22:18 in 1 file Sep 12 22:22:56 it's a safer method than wiping nolo Sep 12 22:23:20 yeah Sep 12 22:23:30 although wiping nolo would be nice Sep 12 22:23:45 I wonder if it says Aieeee or something when it dies Sep 12 22:23:52 lol Sep 12 22:24:11 hmm Sep 12 22:24:28 so far, everything in maemo works as if nothing has happened :) Sep 12 22:28:01 * Arkenoi played with s^3 a bit, almost no difference from 5th edition Sep 12 22:28:03 sucks Sep 12 22:28:03 (as expected) Sep 12 22:28:35 crappy ui, no unified communications Sep 12 22:30:38 i wonder if i can now get NetBSD running... xD Sep 12 22:31:09 @Nokia: look there: http://maemo.org/news/jobs/ and tell me about the joy to read same biz speak blabla for EACH and EVERY job :-/ Sep 12 22:32:07 could we maybe get a diff patch that only holds the unique bits of each job offer? Sep 12 22:33:29 ps: same problem on taleo Sep 12 22:39:47 mornin' all Sep 12 22:40:20 Shapeshifter, reactionfaceoff still fails to start Sep 12 22:44:31 MohammadAG51: how so? ran it from the command line? Sep 12 22:45:00 Shapeshifter, i pastebinned the error for you a month ago :P Sep 12 22:45:11 you never got it fixed Sep 12 22:45:23 well shit. Sep 12 22:45:24 AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'core' Sep 12 22:45:42 ah yes, the numpy problem. I have no clue whatsoever why it occurs. Sep 12 22:45:44 and I cannot fix it. Sep 12 22:45:55 sigh Sep 12 22:45:55 I don't know why your numpy has no core. Sep 12 22:46:05 mine has a core. like it should :| Sep 12 22:46:12 idk, reflash your device and you'll lose it Sep 12 22:49:19 MohammadAG51: I just looked at http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/python-numpy/1.4.0-1maemo2/ and it has a core module. Sep 12 22:50:14 on my phone, I have 1.4.0-1maemo4 which is in testing, and it too has a core module. numpy must have a core module. I don't know why this happens on your device. Sep 12 22:50:28 what does apt-cache show python-numpy tell you? Sep 12 22:50:32 which version do you have? Sep 12 22:51:55 ii python-numpy 1:1.4.0-1maemo3 Sep 12 22:53:10 of course, it has a core. But you see. You can just do python >>>from numpy import core and it should work. but it doesn't for you. Sep 12 22:53:40 no idea why it is broken. it's not broken here, and I have no guesses on what must be broken for this not to work on your device. maybe you did some funky optification of python or whatnot Sep 12 22:53:46 maybe the numpy package has a bug. Sep 12 22:54:32 ImportError: /usr/lib/libblas.so.3gf: undefined symbol: d_cnjg Sep 12 22:55:00 Shapeshifter, i reflashed twice, it failed each time Sep 12 22:55:40 well it seems like numpy depends on libblas3gf (>= 1.2-2maemo3) and apparently, that lib is broken. Sep 12 22:57:23 I saw something similar happening with pyside and Qt, also a undefined symbol error. not on my device, however. This was the bug report http://bugs.openbossa.org/show_bug.cgi?id=275 and their analysis was "a problem with binary compatibility between PySide and Qt, Sep 12 22:57:25 Bug 275: RFE: Nokia 770 needs VPN (GUI) Sep 12 22:57:28 maybe a new Qt update has broken the compatibility between the libs, we will Sep 12 22:57:30 release a new PySide version this week and this will fix this problem" Sep 12 22:58:38 so my guess now is that whatever the numpy module wants from libblas3gf is not there anymore. I guess it should be reported to the numpy dude. But maybe this has been fixed in 1.4.0-1maemo4, which you don't use, yet. Sep 12 23:33:46 how do I work Psfreedom? Sep 12 23:34:06 do I just install it from the repo? Sep 12 23:34:27 can you help me guys? Sep 12 23:36:46 can you (temporarily) disable the power kernel without uninstalling it? Sep 12 23:37:31 lolloo, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61669 Sep 12 23:38:21 pigeon_, not to my knowledge. as far as I know, it replaces the kernel in flash when it's installed, then puts the old one back when it's uninstalled Sep 12 23:38:39 (someone will definitely correct me if I'm wrong here ;) ) Sep 12 23:39:19 johnx: hmm, but then, i noticed when the power kernel crashes, the reboot will load the old kernel automatically. Sep 12 23:39:47 aaah, then it's quite possible I'm wrong. :) sorry for the confusion Sep 12 23:39:51 so i'm guessing the old/stock kernel isn't "replaced" completely. Sep 12 23:41:02 lolloo, BTW, that was the first result on google for: n900 ps3freedom site:talk.maemo.org Sep 12 23:42:35 pigeon, if you tell me the exact package name I'll take a look at the packaging and see if I can make a better guess as to how it coexists with the stock Nokia kernel Sep 12 23:42:47 is it 'kernel-power'? Sep 12 23:43:08 i believe so. Sep 12 23:44:00 yay :D Sep 12 23:44:01 rootfs 227.9M 223.7M 8.0k 100% / Sep 12 23:44:44 FIQ|n900, ok, I'll bite: what exactly did you do? Sep 12 23:45:15 i downloaded a too big file Sep 12 23:45:27 why is the browser downloading tmp files in /var Sep 12 23:45:28 aaah, without the headers I read that backwards :) Sep 12 23:45:29 -.- Sep 12 23:45:44 * johnx parsed that as 100% of the space being free :) Sep 12 23:45:47 and, fixed Sep 12 23:45:49 hah Sep 12 23:47:09 pigeon, did you have to download a 'multiboot' or 'flasher' package of some type as well? Sep 12 23:47:34 johnx: yeah, it's a dependency of something else i think. Sep 12 23:47:53 let me check Sep 12 23:48:34 kernel-flasher at least Sep 12 23:49:09 kernel-flasher or kernel-power-flasher? Sep 12 23:49:19 hmpf. gtk_text_buffer_crete_mark - mark_name parameter: documentation: "name for mark, or NULL." implementation:"g_assert(name != NULL);" Sep 12 23:49:29 johnx: i have both installed actually. Sep 12 23:50:32 Anyone knows what does wlancond do to associate to an ap, besides the usual set essid, etc? I need a way to do it from commandline Sep 12 23:51:05 ShadSEC: a lot of things, does the network use encryption? Sep 12 23:51:38 in this test WEP, but I need more support than that Sep 12 23:51:40 the issue is not wlancond, which is open, but the crypto part, which is closed and invoked by wlancond Sep 12 23:51:53 ShadSEC: use wpasupplicant Sep 12 23:52:10 javispedro, the problem is that it isnt associating (Not-Associated) Sep 12 23:52:14 ShadSEC, what exactly are your requirements? are you trying to cut wlancond out of the equation or just pull its strings from the command line? Sep 12 23:52:46 at first I tried to put (stop wlancond) it out, but that is even worse Sep 12 23:53:55 My need: It will be enough if I just are able to iwconfig essid, key, etc and it associated from command line Sep 12 23:54:27 I dont care if wlancond is running or not as long as it doesnt mess with my wlan0 Sep 12 23:56:05 http://code.technically.us/post/1109586140/exchange-remote-wipe-is-a-terrible-terrible-bug Sep 12 23:56:36 I even thought about telling it to do it for me using the dbus call setting_and_connect Sep 12 23:56:41 i wonder if maemo does that too... Sep 12 23:56:48 (or meego for that matter) Sep 12 23:56:54 ShadSEC, that's what I'd suggest Sep 12 23:57:05 I don't think wlancond will ignore wlan0 as long as it's running Sep 12 23:57:10 ShadSEC: I used to do that pre-N900 but I know that the wifi driver on n900 is complete enough to work with wpasupplicant alone Sep 12 23:57:12 but I am not sure how to translate the straced dbus call into one I can use Sep 12 23:57:39 neither I have been able to find information about that call googling Sep 12 23:57:50 ShadSEC: sample code https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=libicd-wpa;a=blob;f=wlan.c;h=659e922d4f39f6a71969be32502c54ce9cf4700f;hb=3611cfaee7e551b23487562c54982cf5155978fb#l153 Sep 12 23:57:57 either way, don't Sep 12 23:58:10 wpasupplicant is know to work, so I'll check your conf file Sep 12 23:58:14 *I'd Sep 12 23:59:17 Hmm. Sep 12 23:59:32 I wonder why my 3G speed max has gone way up Sep 12 23:59:38 now I'm getting 1.5mbps Sep 13 00:01:39 javispedro, wpa_supplicant will actually work with wlancond running? Sep 13 00:01:57 johnx: doubt so Sep 13 00:02:04 johnx: any scan will put the interface dow Sep 13 00:02:08 I didn't even tried wpa_supplicant since I was testing wep alone Sep 13 00:02:12 johnx: and icd2 will initiate one every 30s Sep 13 00:02:38 er... every 10 minutes (user setting after all) Sep 13 00:02:50 nox-, yeah. the remote wipe thing always weirded me out. It's basically a requirement for anything to be allowed to connect to exchange, AFAICT Sep 13 00:03:02 the biggest problem I think it is that when stop wlancond, it powerdowns the wlan or something Sep 13 00:03:16 did you ifconfig wlan0 up? Sep 13 00:03:55 of course Sep 13 00:05:46 SpeedEvil, it's 1AM on monday morning? Sep 13 00:05:55 that'd be my explanation for unusually high 3g bandwidth Sep 13 00:06:08 ShadowJK: naah Sep 13 00:06:17 I'm also having exceptional 3g speeds here :) Sep 13 00:06:21 ShadowJK: My usual time to play with 3G is 12AM-1AM Sep 13 00:06:25 The weather is good I think Sep 13 00:06:34 * SpeedEvil forgets where ShadowJK is. Sep 13 00:06:35 US? Sep 13 00:06:38 FI Sep 13 00:06:41 Ah. Sep 13 00:06:47 I'm 9km from the 3g base station :) Sep 13 00:07:14 Reception varies between none and 6 Mbit/s on N900, on the second floor Sep 13 00:07:43 * SpeedEvil checks the SNR margin on DSL1 to see if I can bring DSL2 up without it training to a low speed and wrecking my IP profile and hence speed for another 3 days. Sep 13 00:08:23 My E75 was doing 2M/s earlier tonight, which is exceptional :) Sep 13 00:08:27 (It only has 3.6M modem) Sep 13 00:08:31 * SpeedEvil sighs. Sep 13 00:08:38 * johnx needs to speed-test again at work Sep 13 00:08:48 I'm I think about that from the base station too. Sep 13 00:08:59 I swore I saw over 6Mbit/s, but I'd want to be sure wifi was really, definitely down Sep 13 00:09:42 javispedro, I see you are using the dbus call I was talking about in your code.. but I dont know how to send it from command line.. if I could, that would solve my problem Sep 13 00:11:48 I've seen 8-9M in town with N900 :) Sep 13 00:11:55 downloading podcasts with gpodder Sep 13 00:12:42 the thing that weirds me out is that at 6Mbit/s the N900 is close to the speed of my company's 'users' DSL line Sep 13 00:13:39 * SpeedEvil sighs. Sep 13 00:13:45 heh Sep 13 00:13:46 My DSL is going at 680kbps Sep 13 00:13:54 my N900 is already faster than my home DSL line. Sep 13 00:14:08 an order of magnitude faster at this point. Sep 13 00:15:03 (but 3g has daily caps; dsl doesn't) Sep 13 00:16:53 My 3Ghas only 1G/mo quota - which means I can't use it as normal Sep 13 00:17:20 OTOH - it's cheap Sep 13 00:17:39 btw -- anyone knows if any Extras eBook reader supports Plucker format, or do I need to take the dust off the old 770 Plucker port? Sep 13 00:18:50 SpeedEvil: does it? I've noticed I never hit anything near 1G/mo Sep 13 00:18:59 even with SIP calls Sep 13 00:19:09 javispedro, looks like fbreader knows it Sep 13 00:19:35 ah, fbreader, yes. but it tries to decompress the entire document at load time and is slooooooow Sep 13 00:19:59 heh ok Sep 13 00:20:30 luke-jr: I mean - I can't use it for my normal internet usage as a bridge. Sep 13 00:20:40 even fast 3G still feels sluggish due to high ping and fluctuating speed imo Sep 13 00:20:40 oh Sep 13 00:20:46 luke-jr: It's fine for 'mobile' use Sep 13 00:20:57 * nox- had a similar problem with an html tree, in the end i just put it in a zipfile and made a small python httpd hack to read from zipfiles... Sep 13 00:20:59 SpeedEvil: once upon a time, I ran my server off a wifi bridge :p Sep 13 00:21:50 (because unpacked, tracker/imageviewer took too much resources indexing it) Sep 13 00:22:05 nox-: original plucker was quite fast on 33Mhz palmos. little formatting support (but includes tables nevertteless) Sep 13 00:22:50 qt4.3 docs are ~14MiB in plkr format Sep 13 00:23:08 My home connection is 1Mbit/s. The highly variable latency of 3g makes it suckier than the 1M wimax, even if 3g is 5 times more throughput.. It's mostly only useful for downloading big things Sep 13 00:23:46 luke-jr: btw, you managed to get raw nmea from the n900's gps chip? Sep 13 00:23:56 jaNo. Sep 13 00:24:02 There is no NMEA out Sep 13 00:24:06 it's a binary format. Sep 13 00:24:14 He's munged it into NMEA I think Sep 13 00:24:24 hmpf Sep 13 00:24:36 I really want SiRF binary format from the chip Sep 13 00:24:43 Or similar. To do differential hacks. Sep 13 00:24:45 But meh. Sep 13 00:24:53 I don't think it can. Sep 13 00:26:10 i am interested in what data's available, though Sep 13 00:26:31 for some reason the liblocation packets seem to actually map nicely to the garmin binary protocol Sep 13 00:27:02 no need to calculate dilution of precision Sep 13 00:28:31 Essentially no more data than liblocation. Sep 13 00:29:34 ah well. Sep 13 00:29:40 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_GPS_Reverse_Engineering Sep 13 00:30:15 indeed Sep 13 00:30:44 hi short question: what is the url for the extra repository of sdk for the package libsdl-gles ? Sep 13 00:30:48 very interesting way to get gps data Sep 13 00:31:11 TheXception: http://repository.maemo.org/ Sep 13 00:31:15 here you have all urls Sep 13 00:31:39 add both "Fremantle Extras" and "Fremantle Extras-devel" Sep 13 00:32:00 ah ok thx :) Sep 13 00:32:04 how cpy efficient would that way to get the packet be? Sep 13 00:32:08 cpu Sep 13 00:32:48 javispedro: no, I managed to reverse engineer the binary protocol, and wrote a simple program to convert it to NMEA on a pty Sep 13 00:33:41 I see. Well, at least that's another blob less. Ta! Sep 13 00:33:46 luke-jr, wheres that program? :) Sep 13 00:33:58 ShadSEC: http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/gps3.c Sep 13 00:34:02 or maybe gps4.c not sure Sep 13 00:34:09 gps1.c and gps2.c are earlier versions Sep 13 00:34:29 what is the easiest way to share 3G through wifi? Sep 13 00:34:39 thanks! :) Sep 13 00:35:25 ShadSEC: beware, there's something wrong with my NMEA output :p Sep 13 00:35:31 h3llo: you can't easily Sep 13 00:35:31 at least, gpsd doesn't like it much Sep 13 00:35:38 h3llo: MobileHotSpot Sep 13 00:35:41 h3llo: sshd and socks-proxy is what you can do Sep 13 00:35:45 h3llo: err Sep 13 00:35:51 h3llo: Or mobilehotspot of course Sep 13 00:35:56 h3llo: but it requires a custom kernel, and I haven't investigated why the normal one fails Sep 13 00:35:57 app? Sep 13 00:36:12 ah, so no way with current kernel Sep 13 00:36:14 h3llo: mobilehotspot comes with its own kernel Sep 13 00:36:17 it's in extras Sep 13 00:36:21 h3llo: install openssh Sep 13 00:36:27 done Sep 13 00:36:39 h3llo: then on your PC you do ssh -D something yourphone Sep 13 00:36:40 luke, oh... I wanted it for kismet (without using liblocation), if gpsd doesn't wotk with it, then it will probably not work Sep 13 00:37:04 and then setup your apps to use a SOCKS proxy on port somerthing Sep 13 00:37:11 on your localhost Sep 13 00:37:19 ShadSEC: the problem is with horiz/vertical accuracy Sep 13 00:37:26 hdop Sep 13 00:37:26 ShadSEC: not sure if kismet cares about thatr Sep 13 00:37:43 it shouldnt Sep 13 00:38:00 Calculating HDOP/VDOP is important if you output it Sep 13 00:38:09 For example - JOSM - java openstreetmap editror Sep 13 00:38:13 i will test it later in the night after i fix my current problem with wlancond Sep 13 00:38:16 It will show HDOP circles Sep 13 00:38:24 SpeedEvil: it seems to work fine, but gpsd clears it immediately Sep 13 00:38:26 to indicate the inaccuracy of a fix Sep 13 00:38:31 so it flashes on for a few ms every second Sep 13 00:38:49 what does? Sep 13 00:39:05 ssh has nothing to do with making a hotspot right? Sep 13 00:39:12 h3llo: no. Sep 13 00:39:34 h3llo: you're basically doing something you can do with any other host running ssh. Sep 13 00:39:50 h3llo: You can ask a remote ssh server to act like the far end of a SOCKS proxy. Sep 13 00:40:14 h3llo: The local end of that proxy that you connect the apps to is bridged over the ssh connection. Sep 13 00:40:17 i uploaded the liblocation->nmea I made a few months ago -- http://gitorious.org/nmeagend/nmeagend/blobs/master/nmeagend.c#line200 Sep 13 00:40:32 that's the hdop from eph calculation part... which is fugly Sep 13 00:41:07 (and useless) Sep 13 00:41:22 but at least made some propietary windows apps work with the nmea stream Sep 13 00:41:55 How is it useless? Sep 13 00:42:12 because afaik it's worng. Sep 13 00:42:43 Well - yes. Sep 13 00:43:09 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS#Accuracy - you may want to use the scaling there. Sep 13 00:43:47 Actually - I need to lookup the error vs reported error curves Sep 13 00:44:28 50% of points fall within a 2.2m radius circle - but I haven't looked at the reported accuracy figure at those points Sep 13 00:46:44 nice Sep 13 00:47:15 I should try to do such a plot. Sep 13 00:48:06 javispedro, \o hi quick q - how did your IM stuff go on in the GSOC? is it in usable shape? do you expect much more work to bash it if not? Sep 13 00:48:34 lcuk: at this point it does not work at all because changed interface which I plan to fix ASAP Sep 13 00:48:44 I am more worried about the state of hildon under meego Sep 13 00:48:51 globally -- not just IM Sep 13 00:48:59 understood entirely Sep 13 00:49:17 i have to sleep tonight though, will you be around tomorrow night? Sep 13 00:49:32 late Sep 13 00:49:51 indeed it is now Sep 13 00:50:08 ping me when you get on see if I am around Sep 13 00:50:16 ok Sep 13 00:50:33 you saw what I wanted to try and get moving though? Sep 13 00:50:54 where? :) Sep 13 00:50:58 javispedro: That was ~ a week of logging in one position. Sep 13 00:51:22 javispedro, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=800473#post800473 Sep 13 00:51:44 The 3d visualisation is fascinating. Sep 13 00:51:58 will speak tomorrow I am knackered now Sep 13 00:51:59 * javispedro suddenly remembers he need to renew his passport asap too Sep 13 00:52:01 gnite all Sep 13 00:52:05 gnite Sep 13 00:52:14 It's got one massively hot blob in the middle, with wild journies out to 100m away Sep 13 00:52:39 btw I'm impressed with the randomness of the course indicator Sep 13 00:52:46 :) Sep 13 00:52:54 i'm sure garmins must smooth it Sep 13 00:53:03 It works OK at >5MPH Sep 13 00:53:15 Smooth or do not display at all under XMPH Sep 13 00:53:37 I tried a PC autorouting program and it went all crazy Sep 13 00:57:35 do you guys know of any app/source that does some sort of "triangulation" based on several gps points + signal strenght given ? Sep 13 00:58:31 * javispedro ponders for a moment if he's confusing east vs west Sep 13 00:58:34 ShadSEC: kismet used to bundle one Sep 13 00:58:46 still does maybe Sep 13 00:58:51 but the new one doesn't work with N810 Sep 13 00:58:59 cuz N810 doesn't support signal strength ;( Sep 13 00:59:15 at least not until we get 2.6.35+ working on it Sep 13 00:59:16 hmm? Sep 13 00:59:19 ah, Sep 13 00:59:26 you mean 802.11? Sep 13 00:59:31 …yes Sep 13 00:59:39 for some reason he asked gps :P Sep 13 00:59:50 javispedro: yeah, that's the triangulation bit Sep 13 00:59:54 you triangulate the 802.11 AP Sep 13 01:00:04 though I wouldn't mind kismet support for 3G too Sep 13 01:00:20 didn't knew kismet had that add on, i will check Sep 13 01:00:45 but I doubt Nokia will give us a 2G/3G monitor mode ☹ Sep 13 01:00:57 FCC would have their butts on a dish Sep 13 01:01:00 n810 doesn't support signal strenght? Well, I want it for N900, but it is weird n810doesnt Sep 13 01:01:16 ShadSEC: N810 had a proprietary kernel blob for wifi Sep 13 01:01:47 Nokia had it rewritten as free software, but (for practical purposes) that never really worked out Sep 13 01:01:55 and mainline has another independent implementation in latest kernel Sep 13 01:02:12 luke, if the triangulation program is done, you only should need substitute 802.11 signal strenght with cellid strenght Sep 13 01:02:24 ShadSEC: yes, for triangulation only Sep 13 01:02:35 but kismet only works with monitor mode Sep 13 01:02:50 There is a vast difference between 2G/3G monitor mode, annd simple adjacent cell and current cell signal strenghts and timing advance. Sep 13 01:02:58 luke, what do you mean? you can read the cellid signal strenght Sep 13 01:02:59 signal strength comes in attached to monitor mode packets Sep 13 01:03:09 ShadSEC: I mean it wouldn't be kismet providing the data Sep 13 01:03:20 SpeedEvil: I'd prefer monitor mode :D Sep 13 01:03:33 Well -yes. Sep 13 01:03:50 even if we can't sniff others' traffic, it'd be neat to see all the protocol details in Wireshark Sep 13 01:03:53 I also wanrt a DAB transmitter. Sep 13 01:04:05 ah you mean kismet dierctly monitoring the gsm interface? what would be awesome haha Sep 13 01:04:20 ShadSEC: yeah, showing GSM/3G protocols in the dump Sep 13 01:04:27 that'd be the ideal IMO Sep 13 01:04:51 maybe someday when/if the cellmo is rooted Sep 13 01:05:02 considering A5/1 was long ago cracked yep Sep 13 01:05:27 luke-jr: http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/gsm/ Sep 13 01:05:30 does anyone even know what OS cellmo runs right now? Sep 13 01:05:50 I had some very small hope that N900 would let some interaction with the gsm firmware... Sep 13 01:05:59 obviously, It was just hope... Sep 13 01:06:27 They do. Sep 13 01:06:30 It's AT commands. Sep 13 01:06:35 And that's it. Sep 13 01:07:17 … Sep 13 01:07:25 where do you see AT commands? Sep 13 01:07:29 phonet! Sep 13 01:07:31 it's all binary protocol stuff Sep 13 01:07:33 ;P Sep 13 01:07:35 documented, sure, but not AT Sep 13 01:08:59 pnatd Sep 13 01:09:03 the only approaches i did know of ware using GNU radio.. and a now defunct project of modifiying TSM-30 cellphone as its firmware sources leaked.... Sep 13 01:09:29 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Phone Sep 13 01:09:40 now defunct? Sep 13 01:09:41 ShadSEC: See above /gsm/ site Sep 13 01:09:53 ShadSEC: there has just been a 20 min open-source stack call Sep 13 01:10:14 luke-jr: AT commands implemented by pnatd Sep 13 01:10:42 I'd not call Dieter's and Harald's work defunct Sep 13 01:10:44 I must say im very new to this maemo/n900 stuff, that's the reason I havent already read some things.. Sep 13 01:11:05 * ShadSEC reading http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Phone Sep 13 01:11:50 That is not related to the opensorurce stuff Sep 13 01:11:54 the opensource GSM Sep 13 01:12:17 SpeedEvil, but those are regular atm gsm modem commands, what does it have to do with gsm sniffing? Sep 13 01:12:58 nothing Sep 13 01:13:02 See the other link I posted. Sep 13 01:14:12 Docscrutinizer, what phone are they using? Sep 13 01:14:29 ShadSEC: Any TI calypso based phone in principle. Sep 13 01:14:48 dunno, some old cheap thing with calypso chipset, just like FreeRunner Sep 13 01:16:02 there's nothing to block firmware modification? Sep 13 01:17:17 on calypso? afaik not Sep 13 01:17:30 so much for FCC requiring that Sep 13 01:17:56 at least on openmoko calypso Sep 13 01:19:13 interesting, then theres nothing stopping from monitoring/decoding all traffic Sep 13 01:19:44 The FCC or whoever typically does not require any technical measure to stop hacking. Sep 13 01:20:01 yup Sep 13 01:20:03 they may however require you to fix it in future sales of products. Sep 13 01:20:04 luke-jr, there are some phones out there that don't.. ie: tsm-30 which part of its firmware sources even leaked Sep 13 01:20:18 SpeedEvil: so it's just Nokia being jerks Sep 13 01:20:54 in the uk for example - if nokia let users edit firmware - the first user to abuse that would make nokia liable for selling phone hacking tools if they don't fix that. Sep 13 01:21:05 (actually the retailer - but...) Sep 13 01:23:33 the biggest problem when/if the full protocol support is open will not be not so private calls, but DOS attacks which will surely be discovered very easily Sep 13 01:24:09 Why is the world doesn't spell-check-as-you-type not work in EtherPad. . . . Sep 13 01:24:11 DoS probably doesn't require protocol support Sep 13 01:24:29 I am not talking about regular jamming Sep 13 01:24:41 but doing havok on the gsm network Sep 13 01:25:50 it has never been previously exposed to attacks, so many flaws probably exist Sep 13 01:26:20 Lots do. The protocol is not designed to be secure that way. Sep 13 01:26:33 I am almost seeing it: Buffer overflows on cell tower lol Sep 13 01:27:18 meterpreter control of the cell system Sep 13 01:27:25 :P Sep 13 01:27:48 its security depends right now in its isolation from attacks Sep 13 01:28:08 luke-jr, btw if you missed it http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/u-boot/ :) Sep 13 01:28:43 nice Sep 13 01:28:54 let's hope the exploiters are subtle enough that they don't notice <.< Sep 13 01:29:21 b-man`: that isn't useful enough Sep 13 01:29:57 why? you want it to completely replace nolo? :) Sep 13 01:30:01 1. I don't want to open it up just to switch OS Sep 13 01:30:09 2. I'd rather have my kernel on my eMMC partition Sep 13 01:30:49 luke-jr: 1st one can be resolved by implementing a menu Sep 13 01:30:54 it's been done Sep 13 01:31:36 as far as U-Boot in general, 3. BME and actdead should run *before* any menu Sep 13 01:31:40 but 3 isn't important to me Sep 13 01:32:40 oh, here's 4. I don't want vfat junk :P Sep 13 01:33:33 luke-jr: at least this method doesn't require you to flash a kernel on every boot ;P Sep 13 01:33:41 it's better than nothing Sep 13 01:34:26 wpa_supplicant isnt in the repositories? Sep 13 01:35:44 ShadSEC: probably doesn't work either Sep 13 01:36:02 ShadSEC: what are you trying to do? :p Sep 13 01:36:16 oh well Sep 13 01:36:26 just trying some advice javispedro told me Sep 13 01:42:05 rdhi, rdlo and rm must all be different <- Any idea what this means? It always shows when compiling, and doesnt seem to be important, but I am curious Sep 13 02:00:16 hostapd has compiled.. will it work? Sep 13 02:01:35 is that not what mobilehotspot uses? Sep 13 02:01:44 ShadSEC: hostapd != hostap support in the drivers Sep 13 02:01:47 ShadSEC: benign Sep 13 02:01:57 donno, I havent tested hostapd yet Sep 13 02:02:21 but mac80211 is supported, isnt it? Sep 13 02:02:50 i meant i havent tested mobileospot either Sep 13 02:02:52 i think only with power kernel Sep 13 02:03:03 I am using power kernel, maybe thats why it compiled Sep 13 02:03:10 ah Sep 13 02:04:37 bbl Sep 13 02:12:33 ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_PRISM2_PARAM]: Operation not supported Sep 13 02:12:34 Could not enable hostapd mode for interface wlan0 Sep 13 02:12:36 mmmmmm Sep 13 02:20:07 ShadSEC: if the driver supports hostap/master mode, you should be able to do something like iwconfig wlan0 mode master Sep 13 02:21:20 johnx: which it doesn't… Sep 13 02:21:55 ShadSEC: N900 hasn't been updated on the kernel level in about a year I think Sep 13 02:22:03 2.6.28 Sep 13 02:22:48 yeah, released Dec 24 2008 Sep 13 02:22:48 luke-jr, yeah, kinda figured. Sep 13 02:23:01 almost 2 years old now Sep 13 02:23:35 luke-jr: such is the world of commercial embedded Sep 13 02:25:00 oh well Sep 13 02:25:14 another failed try :( Sep 13 02:26:20 that's something I have wondered.. how hard would be for nokia to make the next PR with a newer kernel? Sep 13 02:27:15 ShadSEC: next PR? Sep 13 02:27:25 if it ever is... Sep 13 02:28:24 ShadSEC: wrong question. "What is the risk/reward ratio for releasing updating the kernel on the N900?" Sep 13 02:28:56 almost infinite? :P Sep 13 02:29:30 yeah. I'd bet it's pretty high Sep 13 02:29:43 ok, no updated kernel... what kernel is meego using btw? Sep 13 02:29:51 2.6.35? Sep 13 02:30:20 good Sep 13 02:30:37 I just built a 'daily' meego image for N900. Looks like the kernel is "2.6.35.3-6.3-n900" Sep 13 02:30:39 a given Sep 13 02:30:49 an unfriendly device vendor could leave you stuck with an old kernel version Sep 13 02:30:56 Pstdinh the version string is left as an exercise for the reader :) Sep 13 02:31:31 <- keyboard off-by-one error :) Sep 13 02:33:50 oarsubg doesn't make much more sense… Sep 13 02:34:30 microlith: yeah. But judging by history it looks a lot more like. "Almost all device vendors will leave you with the kernel the device shipped with. Some of the more friendly ones will make it vaguely possible for you to update the kernel yourself." Sep 13 02:34:39 luke-jr: you're guessing at my keyboard layout ;) Sep 13 02:34:47 yes Sep 13 02:36:23 and now the next problem.. if wpa_supplicant doesn't support mac80211 how am I suppossed to use it? geez Sep 13 02:36:42 this is neverending story Sep 13 02:37:35 ShadSEC: you're not. Sep 13 02:38:01 you're supposed to use the proprietary network management thing Sep 13 02:39:04 ok, and how do I send a dbus settings_and_configure using dbus-send? Sep 13 02:39:13 or any other way to tell wlancond what to do using command line Sep 13 02:39:41 this is driving me crazy, two days without advancing on my program because of this Sep 13 02:40:33 :/ Sep 13 02:41:02 :( Sep 13 02:41:17 Unfortunately, the only sort-of-sane way that can guarantee progress is to rip out all of the existing connection stack. Sep 13 02:41:27 But that means you need to reverse engineer it. Sep 13 02:42:03 and i guess noone has already done that :( Sep 13 02:42:22 No. Sep 13 02:42:33 I for one would quite like it if you did. Sep 13 02:43:04 that won't happen, I dont even properly know C Sep 13 02:43:04 I suspect frals would too. Sep 13 02:43:28 i am just doing some guesswork to find workaround Sep 13 02:43:45 Almost everyone diddn't know C at some point. Sep 13 02:44:55 well, that point haven't changed much in more than 15 years using linux in my case Sep 13 02:47:20 lol Sep 13 02:47:43 ShadSEC: you could always install Gentoo or MeeGo… :p Sep 13 02:48:45 meego will probably carry this same problems :( Sep 13 02:48:57 probably. Sep 13 02:49:48 ok, i guess the only workaround i have left is to find a way to send the dbus call Sep 13 02:50:09 it might be a bit better. I expect meego will have connman unless I'm quite mistaken Sep 13 02:51:51 so... if anyone knwos how to send a byte array using dbus-send i am all ears :) Sep 13 02:53:12 johnx, I donno.. anyway, even if this is bothering too much, I must say things have advanced a lot, having an "almost" open linux on a phone is awesome Sep 13 02:53:26 perhaps with meego come the next step Sep 13 02:53:43 yeah. Playing with meego a bit on other hardware. I'm expecting good things **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 13 02:59:57 2010