**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 14 02:59:57 2010 Sep 14 03:33:18 * RST38h gave up and installed MohammadAG's apt-get Sep 14 03:34:03 Dear Nokia, please stop insulting your users by breaking their tools. Sep 14 03:34:54 what's broken now? Sep 14 03:46:14 asj:Cannot install stuff from ovi store repo Sep 14 03:46:19 Have to use HAM for that Sep 14 03:46:40 RST38h: there's nothing in the ovi store you want ;p Sep 14 03:47:07 Actually, there is Sep 14 03:47:22 * RST38h wanted to try Weatherbug, saw it today on...eh...iPad Sep 14 03:54:03 RST38h: it's better than omweather? I always htought weathebug was just a spyware install method for windows Sep 14 03:56:32 fuck ups, just got a card in the mail from them today saying if i don't pick up a package today they're sending it back Sep 14 03:57:55 cuz apparently they can't find their way into a 20 story apartment building, even though homeless people seem to figure it out Sep 14 03:58:29 CreamyG: yeah, that's annoying Sep 14 03:58:39 I live in a house and the mailman can't be bothered to even knock Sep 14 03:58:40 i especially like how it's package 2/2 and the other one got in fine, the guy was like "sorry it took so long" Sep 14 03:58:46 he just writes up a card and puts in my mailbox Sep 14 03:59:05 yeah the postal service does that here, and ups too Sep 14 03:59:16 common complaint, they're just so damn cheap Sep 14 03:59:41 i mean the hours to pick up my package is 7-11am or 4-7pm, apparently they can't employ someone to work all day Sep 14 03:59:59 then they aren't open saturday or sunday Sep 14 04:01:25 i'm surprised they actually splurged on a stamp to mail me this card. not sure how it took 11 days to get across town though, probalby only can pay someone to mail letters once a week lol. Sep 14 04:03:14 thats because 11am to 4pm is when they hired the gorillas to work at stomping boxes Sep 14 04:07:58 yeah i doubt there's anything left of my package by now. probably just a box of broken glass and crushed dreams. Sep 14 04:12:13 wow when outlook 2010 fails to do something with a useless error ("There was an error") it asks you "was this information useful". is that some sort of joke? how can an error message be useful if it doesn't state the problem? Sep 14 04:15:08 i wish i could answer "yes and no" and then ask if my response was useful Sep 14 04:16:21 LOL Sep 14 04:46:27 Hi has someone successfully used LATEST (0.6.1-1) mikkov's openvpn-applet ? Sep 14 04:58:20 where can I download old versions packages ? Sep 14 06:28:22 http://itunes.apple.com/ru/app/fashism-mobile/id388026124?mt=8 Sep 14 06:28:25 nuffsaid Sep 14 06:46:27 is it possible to change layout / size of the toolbar used for fullscreen mode kin the terminal? Sep 14 06:54:10 Morning Sep 14 07:04:25 mornin' Sep 14 07:14:43 morning maemo Sep 14 07:15:07 morning Sep 14 07:18:35 morning Sep 14 07:20:57 hey question, should last weeks meego for n900 release be completely empty? For some reason there are no icons or anything. The only button is the arrow type thing at the bottom, which blurs the background when I click it. Sep 14 07:21:09 mece: possibly Sep 14 07:21:17 mece: we're right now coming out of 2-3 weeks hell with qt Sep 14 07:21:25 alrighty Sep 14 07:21:46 so possibly something working in tomorrows release then? Sep 14 07:23:49 hm. is events.nokia.com the place to go to watch the keynotes at nokia world? Sep 14 07:24:10 mece: Doesn't look like there will be a feed this year. Sep 14 07:24:38 ahj Sep 14 07:24:39 http://streamstudio.world-television.com/CCUIv3/frameset.aspx?ticket=678-750-8959&target=en-default-&status=preview&browser=ns-0-0-0-10-0&stream=flash-video-500 Sep 14 07:24:40 haha Sep 14 07:24:45 twitter helped Sep 14 07:24:59 Lol :) Sep 14 07:25:16 I didn't see that on the events pages? :) Sep 14 07:25:29 me neither. someone tweeted the url Sep 14 07:29:04 interesting, the SIP on Maemo fails due to the CPU going in low-power mode? Sep 14 07:29:25 Whenever the screen is no longer lit, the call quality drops dramatically Sep 14 07:31:15 hmm...I don't know the specifics about that but if the cpu has something important to do, why would it go to low-power mode... Sep 14 07:31:32 hmm, unrelated issue, forcing the screen to be lit still results in random quality loss Sep 14 07:32:10 crashanddie: This is why the phone app forces the cpu at higher rate. Sep 14 07:32:28 crashanddie: For cell calls at least. Sep 14 07:32:38 joga: run an app at nice 19, and you'll see how it'll handle your precious tasks :P Sep 14 07:32:45 X-Fade: hmm Sep 14 07:32:52 X-Fade: and SIP is handled differently? Sep 14 07:32:58 X-Fade: surprising, considering it's the same framework Sep 14 07:33:32 No idea, just ask the overclockers ;) They had their values reset all the time when answering a call. Sep 14 07:34:12 haha Sep 14 07:34:31 morning Sep 14 07:34:36 morning jace Sep 14 07:52:44 heey the link works. I see movement :) Sep 14 07:59:26 lol... musopen collected $50k Sep 14 07:59:35 musopen? Sep 14 07:59:39 they initially hoped for $11k, and thought that would be a stretch Sep 14 07:59:53 a project to record copyright-free music scores and release the audio to public domain Sep 14 07:59:56 ah Sep 14 08:00:44 crashanddie, URL? Sep 14 08:00:59 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/Musopen/record-and-release-free-music-without-copyrights Sep 14 08:02:09 sup? Sep 14 08:03:15 Tott3[AEX]: not much, you? Sep 14 08:03:35 nothing pretty much Sep 14 08:04:02 waiting for my new phone to arrive=/ Sep 14 08:04:12 n900? Sep 14 08:04:19 yeah Sep 14 08:04:39 dneary: sounds like a pretty honourable cause, doesn't it? Sep 14 08:07:03 nice! Sep 14 08:07:12 ..err regardning musopen Sep 14 08:11:53 not that i think that musopen thing is a bad idea, but i have to wonder what kind of unintended fallout could come from it Sep 14 08:12:22 http://pastebin.com/kqD56TmU wat Sep 14 08:12:41 how much do symphonies make from the recordings of this music? .. would kinda suck if they lost a major funding source, as they're not exactly profiteering Sep 14 08:14:22 ieatlint: "symphonies"? Sep 14 08:14:26 ieatlint: you mean orchestras? Sep 14 08:14:41 don't get pedantic on me :P Sep 14 08:15:02 orchestras, like most musicians, make most of their money from live performances, not recording Sep 14 08:15:07 crashanddie, Indeed. Sep 14 08:15:11 or specific commandeered works, just like this one Sep 14 08:15:29 if I pay an orchestra to record a song for me, I own the copyright, not them Sep 14 08:15:39 yes Sep 14 08:15:41 A friend (musician) recently lamented that it is impossible to find high quality sheet music, even of public domain works from previous centuries, online Sep 14 08:16:16 i'm just questioning if this could put them into financial trouble by taking away a funding source Sep 14 08:16:22 crashanddie, sheet music is very expensive. Sep 14 08:16:35 i realise live performances may be their main income, but as i understand, they're not doing too well already Sep 14 08:16:47 ieatlint, Only if the recording companies stop asking orchestras to record major works... Sep 14 08:17:08 but i'm entirely speculating -- just saying from what i understand, it's a concern that is due some basic investigation Sep 14 08:18:18 dneary: that is kinda my point... if recordings are in the public domain, the incentive for them to hire an orchestra is low Sep 14 08:19:44 ieatlint, Yeah, because if I sing "Imagine" and release it as a public domain work, no-one will ever buy the Lennon version again... Sep 14 08:21:32 heh Sep 14 08:22:00 this clearly has no hope of being a productive conversation Sep 14 08:22:16 ieatlint, Two orchestras with different conductors record the same piece of music, but it's not the same Sep 14 08:22:22 That's the point I was making Sep 14 08:22:24 enjoy your veiled idealism, i'll be over here in the grey area Sep 14 08:22:32 yes, i'm quite aware of that Sep 14 08:22:58 ieatlint, Bear in mind that most of these works are public domain, and have been for centuries Sep 14 08:23:15 the music itself is, but the performance is not Sep 14 08:23:25 There will always be a market for excellent classical musicians Sep 14 08:23:31 ieatlint: what you have to understand is that there isn't just "one" recording of say, Prokofiev's Piano Sonata or Korsakov's String Quartet. There are many different versions and most people enjoy very different qualities to different orchestras. Even the same orchestras can have specific performances based on who conducts them Sep 14 08:24:07 crashanddie: and 90% of the general public that goes out and buys a classical cd doesn't give a fuck Sep 14 08:24:16 crashanddie, He'd better be good, though... :) Sep 14 08:24:28 So to answer your question, there won't be any fallout from having yet another recording by a relatively unknown east-european orchestra, the only difference is that some works will be available for re-use in other works Sep 14 08:24:30 (musopen, I mean) Sep 14 08:24:52 ieatlint: that is completely besides the point, really. Obviously, musopen doesn't target 98% of the general population Sep 14 08:25:00 crashanddie, We could have a resurgence of classical riffs in dance music! Sep 14 08:25:34 crashanddie: no, it just means a recording company could take a copy of the music, put it on a cd, and sell it at the store for $20 as they do now Sep 14 08:25:51 I can just imagine putting Four Seasons with the Amen break Sep 14 08:25:51 brb Sep 14 08:26:11 ieatlint, That depends on the license Sep 14 08:26:21 ieatlint: and it wouldn't sell any better than the other 500 versions of the same work Sep 14 08:26:34 And if they had to label it "CC by-sa", then someone who bought it could use it for whatever they wanted Sep 14 08:27:04 they're going for CC0 from what I can tell Sep 14 08:29:16 dneary: maybe they can get Barenboim to conduct? Sep 14 08:29:41 It seems like you know more about classical music than me :) Sep 14 08:29:42 public domain isn't cc Sep 14 08:30:17 cc0 is pretty much Sep 14 08:31:12 Hi ! Sep 14 08:32:41 well, they're going for public domain Sep 14 08:32:46 hum pyqt is available for symbian ? Sep 14 08:32:47 which means no copyright applies Sep 14 08:32:58 yes, people could buy a cd of it and copy it and redistribute Sep 14 08:33:04 ieatlint: and the whole point of cc0 is to waive all copyrights Sep 14 08:33:14 ieatlint: please google things before trolling Sep 14 08:33:19 but it in no way compels anyone to put up a notice saying so Sep 14 08:33:35 crashanddie: dude, google shit yourself http://www.musopen.com/faq.php#2 Sep 14 08:33:54 N9 at the NokiaWorld !!!!!!!!! http://bit.ly/9fDfd9 Sep 14 08:34:45 dneary: my dad is a baritone soloist, and transverse flute player, my mum had a child choir and wrote, conducted and produced some 18CDs in total Sep 14 08:35:12 I grew up listening to Vivaldi on my birthdays Sep 14 08:35:23 crashanddie: i feel sorry for you Sep 14 08:35:40 no need, it's a great experience in the end Sep 14 08:36:04 hmm, that would be hardcore Sep 14 08:36:13 play some vivaldi on 1kW amp in a car Sep 14 08:36:23 would sound like crap though Sep 14 08:37:32 No meego product launch today :( Sep 14 08:38:16 Khertan_: you are on nokia world? Sep 14 08:38:21 ehh Sep 14 08:38:23 waste of money Sep 14 08:39:02 £700 to liten to their advertising Sep 14 08:39:03 jacekowski: oh .... no just listening the live streaming while working Sep 14 08:39:34 http://events.nokia.com/nokiaworld/home.htm Sep 14 08:39:40 i was considering going there but then i saw the price Sep 14 08:40:00 and unless free n900 is included then it's not worth it Sep 14 08:41:10 currently it s look like brain wash : symbian more used plateform Sep 14 08:44:51 I want meego with the camera module from N8 Sep 14 08:44:57 ... and a keyboard. Sep 14 08:45:01 Hm mechanical shutter. Sep 14 08:45:05 exactly Sep 14 08:46:05 Lol, Tron :) Sep 14 08:46:10 hmm is it my stream or the n8 that is lagging? Sep 14 08:46:14 hum ... some resume the Apple keynote in 3 words most used by steve, awesome, amazing, beautiful ... the first words i remember from this presentation is : 'blablabla' Sep 14 08:46:15 :) Sep 14 08:46:36 oh it's my stream Sep 14 08:47:13 X-Fade, You're not available at all this week for a Maemo team meeting? Sep 14 08:47:52 dneary: I already told Jaffa that I'll free the thursday afternoon slot. Sep 14 08:48:09 X-Fade, OK Sep 14 08:51:53 ah ... word amazing :) Sep 14 08:52:03 haha Sep 14 08:54:52 some say that his english accent is horrible ... but hum ... at leat i prefer his accent than texan one ... i can clearly understand him ! Sep 14 08:55:34 pretty good for a finn, imo. Sep 14 08:57:10 Besides that it sounded like he said the phone has a buddies. I don't think that's what he was saying though Sep 14 08:57:22 Buddy* Sep 14 08:57:57 "It's biiig" Sep 14 08:57:57 lol Sep 14 08:59:39 Khertan_, what's new in the new khweetur? Sep 14 09:00:41 hmpf my stream died Sep 14 09:01:26 mece: mine too. Totally crapped out. Sep 14 09:01:34 :/ Sep 14 09:01:46 mece: Server is too busy Sep 14 09:01:58 it's back Sep 14 09:03:19 no it's gone again Sep 14 09:23:54 hi, how i can install again skype to my n900? @skype.com its not for free afaik and @store.ovi i cannot downloaded Sep 14 09:25:29 abstract3d: It is on your device by default? Sep 14 09:26:07 really? Symbian^3? Sep 14 09:26:29 :| Sep 14 09:26:32 WHERE'S MEEGO Sep 14 09:26:48 Not there yet :) Sep 14 09:27:11 do you guys have a link to the video feed btw? Sep 14 09:27:26 kerio: No :) It is already overloaded. Sep 14 09:27:32 aw Sep 14 09:28:00 damn fans ;) Sep 14 09:33:44 Kerio - There's no meego announcements at nokia world Sep 14 09:34:48 TermanaDesire: more to the point - wtf is nokia doing Sep 14 09:50:25 DocScrutinizer, did you ever find the /cmd to tell xchat to disable join/part messages? Sep 14 09:50:32 I saw it discussed the other day Sep 14 09:50:42 I know theres no UX in settings for it Sep 14 09:56:25 bäck Sep 14 09:57:17 We didn't even notice you gone. :p kidding Sep 14 09:58:03 I'm sure you were all shocked and distressed by my absence :D Sep 14 09:58:09 hey nice: http://www.slideshare.net/rbarroca/redesign-nokia-ovi-store Sep 14 09:59:49 that E7 does look pretty sleek I must say. I hope the upcoming meego phone will be as nice. Sep 14 10:00:02 abstract3d: Skype is integrated in the N900's UI Sep 14 10:00:09 abstract3d: there is no standalone application to install or run Sep 14 10:00:45 abstract3d, Skype is not installed if you bought your phone in India. Sep 14 10:00:59 lol, really? Sep 14 10:01:01 That sucks. Sep 14 10:01:04 Indian government ftw! Sep 14 10:01:16 well you can simply install the global firmware to fix that though. Sep 14 10:01:31 now that is ftw :) Sep 14 10:02:12 djeezus Sep 14 10:02:19 Nokia needs to stop the suit culture Sep 14 10:02:25 or at least make people wear nice suits Sep 14 10:02:39 that guy looks like a financial director of the local bank Sep 14 10:03:04 crashanddie: It is a Voda guy. Sep 14 10:03:07 He is. Are you paying attention? Sep 14 10:03:08 you mean the vodafone guy? Sep 14 10:03:14 :p Sep 14 10:03:23 my stream died. Sep 14 10:03:34 mece: I probably stole your stream :P Sep 14 10:03:35 stream? Sep 14 10:03:41 * SpeedEvil woke up. Sep 14 10:03:54 nw2010 stream Sep 14 10:04:03 url/ Sep 14 10:04:08 http://events.nokia.com/nokiaworld/home.htm Sep 14 10:04:42 vodafone guy just dribbling about ecosystems and communities atm tho Sep 14 10:04:43 Hehe "We should reduce choice for the customer" :) Sep 14 10:04:49 oh.. I was looking at the other stream. this one works very well. Sep 14 10:06:03 hmm apparently the keynotes did not appease the finnish stockholders. NOK down 1.2% Sep 14 10:06:10 Vodafone is saying: "We'll probably use android in a couple years" Sep 14 10:07:24 "I'm enthusiastic, even though I look like I'm about to go hang myself." Sep 14 10:07:52 crashanddie: enthusiastically Sep 14 10:07:56 LOL Sep 14 10:08:30 wtf is he on about?? Sep 14 10:08:33 "doesnt indicate any intention other than a common intent" Sep 14 10:08:35 nice. Sep 14 10:08:48 mece: he's on drugs, apparently. Good stuff, too. Sep 14 10:08:52 hahahahahah Sep 14 10:09:13 industry collaborations? Sep 14 10:09:17 oh man that E7 is pretty. Grr argh! Sep 14 10:09:22 Who does he remind me of... Sep 14 10:09:27 yer the e7's looking real nice Sep 14 10:09:29 Whyyyyy isn't it a meego phone. Sep 14 10:09:40 because meego isn't ready. Sep 14 10:09:44 I know. Sep 14 10:09:55 I want it to be. Sep 14 10:10:23 I like this guy. Sep 14 10:10:30 This guy looks like the lovechild between steve jobs, terry wogan and steve ballmer. And then a bit of the gene pool of churchill. Sep 14 10:10:42 has an air of stephen fry about him, imo. Sep 14 10:10:42 The bets are on. How likely it is that Nokia abandons Meego and moves to windows phone?-) Sep 14 10:10:42 He doesn't look like he's going to hang himself. Sep 14 10:10:57 I'm going with no. Sep 14 10:11:07 zero. ceo's from other businesses arent anything special. Sep 14 10:11:08 sharpneli: lol, do you really want to be banned from this channel? Sep 14 10:11:14 Moving to android in acouple of years would not astonish me. Sep 14 10:11:21 SpeedEvil++ Sep 14 10:11:39 neh Sep 14 10:11:39 I have high hopes for meego. Sep 14 10:11:40 crashanddie: Just spoke out my nightmares .D Sep 14 10:11:45 mece: Me too. Sep 14 10:12:04 sharpneli: then your nightmares are stupid, futile and illogical. Sep 14 10:12:04 mece: But android has damn huge traction. Sep 14 10:12:36 SpeedEvil, Well I suppose, but meego exists, so all is not lost. Sep 14 10:12:43 crashanddie: Let us hope so. Sep 14 10:12:47 This guy is saying insanely boring stuff, but it's great delivery. Sep 14 10:12:56 SpeedEvil exactly! Sep 14 10:12:59 great delivery? Sep 14 10:12:59 exactly. huge traction leads to huge userbase leads to becoming the predominant platform, leads to being the one that everyone criticizes and the one that people want "anything but.." Sep 14 10:13:30 meego needs to compete with symbian too Sep 14 10:13:41 I don't see iphone going away. I think android will eat some of windows and other devices share. Sep 14 10:13:42 meego will ever compete with symbian Sep 14 10:13:53 s/ever/never/ Sep 14 10:13:54 crashanddie meant: meego will never compete with symbian Sep 14 10:14:13 LOOOL Sep 14 10:14:18 good end there :D Sep 14 10:14:22 that was one dud of an ending Sep 14 10:14:26 it was funny Sep 14 10:14:30 "tea Sep 14 10:14:32 all he needed was a bowler hat to go with that end. unsuprising lack of any laughs atall though Sep 14 10:14:33 "meh" Sep 14 10:14:44 england and tea Sep 14 10:14:44 oh well. I liked that guy. Best speaker Sep 14 10:14:48 tea Sep 14 10:14:50 tea Sep 14 10:14:56 lcuk, it was a joke... Sep 14 10:15:10 * mece pats lcuk on the back saying "there there" Sep 14 10:15:18 * lcuk goes for a cup of tea Sep 14 10:15:19 mece: The most important thing to remember from this years nokia world is always to wear your wristband. Sep 14 10:15:38 * SpeedEvil wonders if this wristband will run meego. Sep 14 10:15:45 SpeedEvil, I'm not wearing mine!!! Omg! Zombies! RUUNN!!!!!! Sep 14 10:16:39 * lcuk goes to coffee shop actually, but meh Sep 14 10:17:00 * SpeedEvil continues lying in bed, and catches up on email. Sep 14 10:17:36 working sucks :( Sep 14 10:17:45 anyone know how long battery will take to charge via the plug Sep 14 10:17:53 Not being able to work sucks. Sep 14 10:17:54 i normally use usb but needed a turbocharge Sep 14 10:18:00 lcuk: To do what? Sep 14 10:18:06 to charge it Sep 14 10:18:09 lcuk: To be fully charged - around a couple of hours Sep 14 10:18:10 it was wailing at me Sep 14 10:18:19 gaah. I want next weeks meego! Sep 14 10:18:24 and I want to be going out in ~10mins Sep 14 10:18:26 erm tomorrows I means Sep 14 10:18:39 I find to fully charge from the wall is like 3 hours Sep 14 10:18:43 from dead to full Sep 14 10:18:57 It charges to 80% in maybe an hour. Sep 14 10:19:07 nidO, note that ... erm what SpeedEvil said., Sep 14 10:19:26 hm hadnt seen that, was checking battery-eye Sep 14 10:19:29 typical lithium charging. fast while safe, and slowly creeping up to full. Sep 14 10:20:41 ok ta, I will just leave it till I am ready to go and see where its upto Sep 14 10:33:00 hey question Sep 14 10:33:11 how is QtQuick related to QML? Sep 14 10:39:30 ok got it. Thanks for the help :P Sep 14 10:39:43 QML is the markup part of QtQuick FYI. Sep 14 10:40:11 glad we could help :> Sep 14 10:52:30 meh. mplayer -> alsa vs. mplayer -> PA mp3 playback is only about 10mA less. Translates to close to an hour of extra playback. Is it worth it :/ Sep 14 10:53:36 check mplayer - sox Sep 14 10:53:42 I mean Sep 14 10:53:44 mplayer - wav Sep 14 10:53:48 see if it's the codec Sep 14 10:54:23 gst -> PA vs mplayer -> PA is almost no difference. Nothing that could not be attributed to the error margin Sep 14 10:55:48 MNZ: disabling PA is always worth it Sep 14 10:55:57 if anything, because then you can actually use your n900 while listening to music Sep 14 10:56:12 also i thought using hw decoding was much easier on the battery anyway Sep 14 10:56:36 kerio, apparently it's not that simple, there's a lot to consider Sep 14 10:56:54 and they aren't doing audio on the DSP for a reason, as explained to me Sep 14 10:57:00 what reason? Sep 14 10:57:49 basically that the DSP is good for huge chunks of data, but the savings for doing audio would be minuscule, if any Sep 14 10:58:03 MNZ: it's still offloading from the cpu Sep 14 10:58:19 leaving it free for the user Sep 14 10:58:39 imo Sep 14 10:58:43 well, yeah. but I'm not going to be able to do audio dec on the DSP anyway. Way above my skill level Sep 14 10:59:12 well, i guess just removing PA will be enough Sep 14 11:01:13 cpu usage is around 42% with PA and around 32% without. (using mplayer) Sep 14 11:02:25 with gst I'm not sure if all of PA's cpu usage will be gone (about 15-17%) because I have a feeling it's resampling as well and that may have to be done elsewhere Sep 14 11:02:48 PA usage is at about 7-8% only when mplayer is using PA Sep 14 11:03:07 MNZ: Did you try Mohammad's SSU, or at least the updated PA packages? Sep 14 11:03:40 X-Fade, no, guess I should try them out now. Sep 14 11:04:52 They fixed some issues with stuttering etc. Might be good to see if it helps in cpu usage too. Sep 14 11:05:18 it's going to need kernel-power :S meh Sep 14 11:06:35 It's weird actually but I very rarely experience audio stutter. And I have more than once listened to music + web + xchat with no problems Sep 14 11:06:51 MNZ: I had it all the time. Sep 14 11:06:58 mp3s? Sep 14 11:07:09 Yes. Sep 14 11:07:52 crashanddie: i have deleted as i can remember :$ Sep 14 11:07:58 skype Sep 14 11:09:24 hm, it occurs to me the design of the e7 seems kinda bad for thumb typing Sep 14 11:09:57 nidO: Why? Sep 14 11:10:34 well having seen a video of it the lips on the left and right edges look really akward to get your thumb round - using both the e90 and n900 to thumb type my thumbs are always basically flat against the device Sep 14 11:10:38 not possible with the e7 Sep 14 11:12:04 Where are these updated pa patches? Sep 14 11:12:17 SpeedEvil, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60788 Sep 14 11:12:22 ah Sep 14 11:12:57 heh, with .wav mplayer starts at about 2% and drops to 0.7-1.3 for the rest of the playback Sep 14 11:13:04 and no PA Sep 14 11:14:09 Grrr. Sep 14 11:14:17 I want fcam Sep 14 11:14:22 So I need stock kernel. Sep 14 11:14:23 meh Sep 14 11:14:35 mplayer wav -> PA: mplayer is at about 2% and PA at 7% Sep 14 11:14:43 didnt they fix fcam <> titans compatibility a while ago? Sep 14 11:14:50 nope Sep 14 11:14:55 well - not as of last week Sep 14 11:15:50 * Removed kernel-power-flasher as a conflict Sep 14 11:15:50 * Removed blessn900 as a conflict (this was a bug in fcam) Sep 14 11:15:50 * Now compiles a version for the power kernel and a version for Sep 14 11:15:50 the vanilla kernel and packs them both into the same .deb Sep 14 11:17:16 anyone here actually at nokiaworld? Sep 14 11:17:36 nidO: Is this the version intherepos? Sep 14 11:18:00 yeah, was uploaded a month ago, and promoted to extras on 8th september Sep 14 11:18:04 1.0.6-1 Sep 14 11:19:10 Well - wasn't working as of a week ago Sep 14 11:19:16 * SpeedEvil ponders trying again. Sep 14 11:20:31 hmm Sep 14 11:21:02 still no ovi contacts for the N900? At the rate meegoo is developing I suppose it'll never happen.. sigh... Sep 14 11:28:48 SpeedEvil: there's fcam-drivers for the power kernel Sep 14 11:28:49 tybollt, what's ovi contacts? Sep 14 11:30:37 the killer app that was available to all Nokia-phones (but the N900). Sep 14 11:37:10 how do I reset the data counter (personal data widget) Sep 14 11:41:23 sejo: I asked this yestrerday.... Sep 14 11:41:24 Aha Sep 14 11:41:28 Settings -> phone Sep 14 11:41:39 Then click on 'home/roaming data counter' Sep 14 11:41:45 and you can resert it tehre Sep 14 11:45:00 ach cool Sep 14 11:45:01 thx Sep 14 11:45:03 hey guys Sep 14 11:45:32 what killer app? Sep 14 11:45:46 SpeedEvil: what happens to my battery if i leave bluetooth on? Sep 14 11:45:53 virtual chainsaw app Sep 14 11:46:06 lcuk: make a liqchainsaw Sep 14 11:46:17 that would be messy Sep 14 11:47:52 just having bluetooth on is an effect small enough that it's hard to measure, I think Sep 14 11:47:59 on and invisible Sep 14 11:48:12 so there's not even the periodical transmission of the beacon or whatever it's called Sep 14 11:48:36 lol at nokia wanting to say "our developer community is becoming more diverse", but it sounded like "becoming more divorced" Sep 14 11:48:37 ok any nokia devs here Sep 14 11:48:47 kerio: on but idle - almost nothign Sep 14 11:48:48 how do i subscribe to photo taken events :) Sep 14 11:48:56 so autodisconnect on bluetooth is useless Sep 14 11:50:13 if they're polling for connections to decide when to shut down bluetooth, it's damn easy to make the software eat more power on the cpu than idle bluetooth Sep 14 11:50:15 lcuk: (xchat join/quit) sorry? there's of course a GUI interface to set this property Sep 14 11:50:31 hmm DocScrutinizer51 i couldnt find it when I looked Sep 14 11:50:48 still looking? Sep 14 11:50:55 can you take a snapshot, my xchat enabled device is all the way downstairs Sep 14 11:51:08 and I am trying to eat a bowl of rice Sep 14 11:51:27 now a snapshot is really difficult Sep 14 11:51:43 it's in chan tab contextmenu Sep 14 11:53:55 battery mostly charged btw Sep 14 11:54:10 just took it off from downstairs charger and theres only ~1pixel from top Sep 14 12:00:48 Best way to measure remaining battery life Sep 14 12:03:04 DocScrutinizer51, not seeing it Sep 14 12:03:10 lcuk: btw in my xchat there's a bug that doesn't allow context menu when you select chanswitcher switcher-type tree Sep 14 12:04:04 TermanaDesire, see the script that felipec uses here, developed right here by (afaik) ShadowJK DocScrutinizer51 and SpeedEvil and others http://felipec.wordpress.com/2010/09/14/gst-av-0-3-better-performance-for-vorbis-and-mp3/ Sep 14 12:04:12 (i hope I got the names right :P) Sep 14 12:05:37 \o/ huzzah, @nokia aired my question Sep 14 12:06:26 lcuk: I don't think it was DocScrutinizer, but I can't find nick Sep 14 12:06:26 https://twitter.com/nokia/status/24468860277 https://twitter.com/nokia/status/24468922825 Sep 14 12:06:41 felipec, doc has certainly been here talking with the guys Sep 14 12:07:06 eh? Sep 14 12:07:07 they have been getting into the low level nitty gritty on a regular basis Sep 14 12:07:28 DocScrutinizer51, you and the battery script discussions Sep 14 12:07:53 ooh the bq27k readout ? Sep 14 12:08:28 well very first script probably was the one mentioned in Sep 14 12:08:37 ~batteryfaq Sep 14 12:08:38 methinks batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers Sep 14 12:08:45 for FR Sep 14 12:09:19 the one now usually used was done by shadowjk Sep 14 12:11:10 lcuk: ok, updated the post Sep 14 12:11:45 Lcuk - there was suppose to be a second sentence with what I said it was apart of a joke. Guess it didn't send for some reason Sep 14 12:11:53 Thanks anyway :p Sep 14 12:13:39 still wierd, my n900 dont wannaconnect to my tp link router Sep 14 12:14:07 and i changed it to b g only Sep 14 12:30:52 oh wow.. there's the qmlviewer for N900.. which means I can hack qml stuff on device! Sep 14 12:31:02 which is awesome. Sep 14 12:31:19 oh.. only 54 megs of libraries to download. Sep 14 12:31:22 sigh Sep 14 12:32:03 probably to / :P Sep 14 12:32:35 does qt -experimental go to /? Sep 14 12:33:00 mece, alterego has been hacking with qml for a while Sep 14 12:33:16 lcuk, yeah. I just never realized I could do it on device. Sep 14 12:33:24 heh Sep 14 12:33:30 if not for on device, then whats it for :P Sep 14 12:33:36 without compiling and whatnot. Sep 14 12:33:38 yeah :) Sep 14 12:34:43 didn't go to / at least :) Sep 14 12:36:00 mece: be carreful with experimental ... pyqt experimental conflict with python2.5-qt4* Sep 14 12:36:02 :) Sep 14 12:37:08 hi :) Sep 14 12:38:05 how does one launch a qml then? Sep 14 12:38:14 Afternoon, all Sep 14 12:40:25 afternoon Sep 14 12:41:02 ah found it. Sep 14 12:41:20 /opt/qt4-maemo5/bin/qmlviewer Sep 14 12:42:10 Weeeeee! It works :D:D Sep 14 12:42:47 Khertan_, can I make khteditor launch qmlviewer? Sep 14 12:48:00 mece: where's the problen? Sep 14 12:49:48 DocScrutinizer51, no problem. Just that khteditor doesn't launch qml files with qmlviewer, and highlighting doesn't work. infact it gets stuck. Sep 14 12:51:13 mece: aren't there several system() and dbus launch calls to implement what you ask for? Sep 14 12:53:57 DocScrutinizer, I have no idea what you're talking about. I just do /opt/qt4-maemo5/bin/qmlviewer text.wml -fullscreen Sep 14 12:54:04 mece, Khertan_ is having some issues with the highlighting, he has stressed about it during last couple of weeks afaik Sep 14 12:54:06 figured one could make khteditor do the same Sep 14 12:54:26 lcuk, ok. Works fine with py stuff though. Sep 14 12:54:30 it should be able to, see what he says when he gets back Sep 14 12:54:47 yeah, the old gtk highlighter used to work over lots of languages afaik Sep 14 12:55:07 i used to use it for c Sep 14 12:55:42 lcuk, ok. khteditor is just so smooth and fast that everything else is just annoying :) Sep 14 12:55:54 mece: maybe your lack of understanding what I'm talking bout is related to my lack similarly about "can I make khteditor launch qmlviewer". I read that as "can app A start app B" Sep 14 12:56:01 sure mece Sep 14 12:57:06 DocScrutinizer, okay :) I'm glad we understand eachother then. Either way it's not really an issue. I don't mind launching from xterm. Sep 14 12:58:33 mece: :-D Sep 14 13:29:45 DocScrutinizer, did you see my power measurements for mplayer with/without PA? Sep 14 13:31:55 MNZ: nope Sep 14 13:32:07 o.O Sep 14 13:32:18 basically it's a difference of 10mA Sep 14 13:32:26 friggin lot Sep 14 13:32:30 translating to about 1hr of extra playback Sep 14 13:33:38 AND mplayer -> PA is approx same as gst -> PA in terms of total usage Sep 14 13:34:23 but PA cpu usage is significantly less for mplayer -> PA. But at the same time, mplayer usage makes up for the cut in PA usage Sep 14 13:34:39 errr, 1320mAh / (x hours * y mA) = 132mAh / ( x+1 hours * y-10 mA) - please solve that for me :-P Sep 14 13:34:59 s/132m/1320m/ Sep 14 13:35:00 DocScrutinizer meant: errr, 1320mAh / (x hours * y mA) = 1320mAh / ( x+1 hours * y-10 mA) - please solve that for me :-P Sep 14 13:35:16 what I did was more like: 1.4/0.085 - 1.4/0.075 :D Sep 14 13:36:09 IOW: how much hours of playback are you assuming with and without PA? Sep 14 13:36:45 mplayer -> PA = approx 16 hours (screen off of course) Sep 14 13:36:58 Default mediaplayer usage gives about 20 hours. Sep 14 13:37:13 without PA it's about 18 hours, so two more not one Sep 14 13:37:28 :nod: Sep 14 13:37:39 actually, this is with measuring with powerscript running and outputting to console Sep 14 13:37:45 so there's wifi involved Sep 14 13:37:52 probably as X-Fade said, it's more Sep 14 13:38:41 I haven't tested with the new PA patches, mostly because it involves installing kernel-power Sep 14 13:41:04 mplayer wav -> PA is ~1% cpu btw, while w/PA it's ~2 + 8% PA. Which is friggin weird. And I still cannot figure out why PA usage is waaay higher when it's gst accessing it Sep 14 13:43:58 MNZ: headphone output? Sep 14 13:44:04 MNZ: Or speakers? Sep 14 13:44:19 X-Fade, headphone. With speakers there's the added punch of a highpass filter Sep 14 13:44:34 Yes, just wanted to make sure you noticed that :) Sep 14 13:47:29 so, i assume source for /usr/lib/libGLES_CM.so isn't available for the n900... Sep 14 14:07:47 crashanddie, ping? Sep 14 14:08:42 MohammadAG: i think i may have what you need Sep 14 14:11:24 hmmm intersting the modem stays conencted while on the phone Sep 14 14:12:52 On 3G, it can Sep 14 14:13:09 MohammadAG: pong Sep 14 14:15:19 3.5 where im at atm Sep 14 14:24:39 guys Sep 14 14:24:50 i installed python-telepathy last night on the mameo Sep 14 14:24:56 and ever since i cant recieve calls Sep 14 14:25:05 i only get a "missed call" alert Sep 14 14:25:18 heh Sep 14 14:28:04 then...uninstall it? Sep 14 14:32:52 http://gizmodo.com/5637551/is-steve-jobs-a-closet-ninja Sep 14 14:33:02 Yes, yesssss Sep 14 14:41:28 WE WERE RIGHT, BITCHES. Sep 14 14:41:44 going for a fag Sep 14 14:41:45 'later Sep 14 14:51:10 who's the bitch? Sep 14 15:00:09 Cheers Sep 14 15:02:42 Nokia is still full of fools. Sep 14 15:03:23 It's embarrassing when your big yearly event is filled with last year's tech. Sep 14 15:03:45 GAN900: you are there now? Sep 14 15:04:28 Lynoure, no. Sep 14 15:04:28 Jaffa went Sep 14 15:06:53 GAN900, new display isn't old, the rest... well Sep 14 15:06:54 meh Sep 14 15:07:30 n8? Sep 14 15:08:01 isn't it possible to make the calendar NOT add an alarm to every event you create? Sep 14 15:08:04 E7 Sep 14 15:08:09 annoying as hell Sep 14 15:08:10 C6-01 Sep 14 15:08:11 C7 Sep 14 15:08:23 GAN900: last year's tech? N8 has camera that no other device has and the ClearBlack Display has been told to be better than Super AMOLED for example Sep 14 15:09:06 * RST38h shrugs Sep 14 15:09:07 N8 camera makes me weep when shopping for a high-zoom compact digital camera Sep 14 15:09:11 Noma: still worse than my compact camera Sep 14 15:09:13 I bet that camera is noisier than any other camera :) Sep 14 15:09:19 It is a Symbian device. We know these. Sep 14 15:09:27 yeah... Sep 14 15:09:44 And yes, a noisy little pinhole camera is just that, no matter how many mpx Sep 14 15:09:48 Because I want a plain camera, but hard to find one that would have sensor even close to the one N8 has. Sep 14 15:09:59 I gues symbian would be fine if they could make OpenC work, and add a posixy-bsd-ish layer too, so you could actually run apps you need :/ Sep 14 15:10:03 Lynoure: so? Sep 14 15:10:06 ah geek conferences... where everyone sits around awkwardly without saying a word to each other Sep 14 15:10:07 Lynoure: Canon S95 Sep 14 15:10:08 Lynoure: it's not about sensor Sep 14 15:10:15 jacekowski: partially it is. Sep 14 15:10:19 Lynoure: it's not about sensor for last 4 years Sep 14 15:10:22 jacekowski: would be nice to have all. Sep 14 15:10:28 optics is now the problem Sep 14 15:10:34 but you can't fix that without making it bigger Sep 14 15:10:42 ieatlint: add beer. Sep 14 15:10:42 ieatlint, lol Sep 14 15:10:46 jacekowski: that's not what my friends who are into photography say... Sep 14 15:11:02 Shapeshifter: that comes later, it's 8am Sep 14 15:11:10 oh Sep 14 15:11:18 jacekowski: easy enough to find decent lenses even in compact cameras. (not phone cameras, though) Sep 14 15:11:19 Lynoure: I am not sure what you are smoking but N8 camera is 1) no zoom 2) no optical resolution and 3) noise Sep 14 15:11:28 Lynoure, being into something != being a pro about it Sep 14 15:11:28 that's early for any conference to show up to Sep 14 15:11:38 In other words, it is a typical smartphone camera Sep 14 15:11:38 ieatlint: you've obviously never been to the maemo summit? Sep 14 15:11:42 I was into linux three/four years ago Sep 14 15:11:44 RST38h: I'm not smoking anything, I'm coveting the sensor and only the sensor Sep 14 15:11:45 yeah, well, blame intel/nokia Sep 14 15:11:53 ~curse some maemo devs for not following http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s02.html Sep 14 15:11:53 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, some maemo devs for not following http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s02.html ! Sep 14 15:11:57 * MohammadAG wants another maemo summit Sep 14 15:12:04 Lynoure: What is the diagonal size of that sensor you are "coveting"? Sep 14 15:12:06 am at a meego dev day Sep 14 15:12:18 that doesn't answer my question Sep 14 15:12:25 and nope, never been to a maemo summit Sep 14 15:12:25 MohammadAG: _pro_(getting paid for it) photographers do not care much for compact cameras anyway. Sep 14 15:12:26 I've rarely seen as much inter-communication as at the maemo summit Sep 14 15:12:34 Lynoure: sorry? Sep 14 15:12:52 Lynoure, which is why a DSLR mops the floor with an N8 Sep 14 15:12:55 RST38h: 1/1.83” Sep 14 15:12:56 Lynoure: I've sold quite a few pictures (thus by your standards, qualify as a pro), and my favourite camera is an LX3 Sep 14 15:12:59 even if both are 12MPs Sep 14 15:13:02 i'm mostly joking, heh.. have actually seen a lot of communication at conferences Sep 14 15:13:13 ieatlint: oh, ok. sorry Sep 14 15:13:22 crashanddie is not fooling around Sep 14 15:13:36 RST38h: most compacts still have 1/>2" Sep 14 15:13:59 or, actually, all I've seen. Sep 14 15:14:31 s/not/never/ Sep 14 15:14:45 Lynoure: I do have two 40ds with the wide-portrait lens and the the tele, but the lx3 is by far the camera I get the best pictures with (in terms of spontaneity of the subjects) Sep 14 15:15:04 Lynoure: Good. And, if I understand correctly, the entire camera package is what, 5mm thick? Sep 14 15:15:17 and as long as we're not talking low light, quality wise we're not far off the mark either Sep 14 15:15:17 MohammadAG: like I said, I only covet the sensor. I have 0 interest in phone cameras Sep 14 15:15:47 RST38h: see above about coveting and stuff :) Sep 14 15:15:55 I wouldn't mind a smartphone being as large as a compact camera, if its as good as a compact camera Sep 14 15:16:31 the best thing about this so far, is that an awesome irish pub is across the street Sep 14 15:16:49 Lynoure: it is notclear why would anyone "covet" a sensor alone, sans the rest of the package Sep 14 15:17:01 there is not much you can do with the sensor Sep 14 15:17:16 Shapeshifter: Casio. Sep 14 15:17:23 tracker-cfg and currencyconverter have broken .desktop files Sep 14 15:17:35 RST38h: I'd like to see good sensors in compact cameras... but so far manufacturers are not bothering Sep 14 15:17:41 Anybody knows what to do if all my icons somehow got broken? I mean, I enter the app menu and I don't see any icons... Sep 14 15:17:41 Shapeshifter: They have got an Exilim that is also a cell phone. And they are not very bad cameras for their size/cost Sep 14 15:18:03 Lynoure: And you are wondering if it is a conspiracy, right? :) Sep 14 15:18:15 /usr/bin/gtk-update-icon-cache is a empty script, anybody knows if this is normal? Sep 14 15:18:18 My favourite compact still is the Sony DSC-P200. such great pictures, all manual controls that actually do something and good grip Sep 14 15:18:37 Laws of Physics vs. Wannabe Cellphone Photographers, Part Deux Sep 14 15:18:41 RST38h: gosh you are belligerent today Sep 14 15:18:56 Not today, *always* :) Sep 14 15:19:53 "British teenager Luke Angel has been banned from the US for sending an email to the White House calling President Obama an obscenity. The 17-year-old says he was drunk when he sent the mail and doesn't understand what the big deal is." Sep 14 15:20:29 Ehehehe Sep 14 15:21:29 U S A, U S A amirite? Sep 14 15:21:37 RST38h: I don't think it's a conspiracy, I think most people using compact cameras are still mostly people taking photos of their kids on a sunny beach. Thus does not make sense. Sep 14 15:23:19 Lynoure: It does not make sense for other, more funamental reasons Sep 14 15:23:43 Lynoure: One of which is that having a bigger sensor requires a bigger optics package Sep 14 15:23:58 Lynoure: So does real, optical zoom Sep 14 15:24:28 Or any decent optics that do not resemble a pinhole camera Sep 14 15:24:51 For a reference check N93 and N93i, these have real cameras Sep 14 15:24:53 I thought about buying a new compact but when I read reviews and looked at all the sample pictures, my DSC-P200 still seemed superior. I'm not sure if they fixed it now but a year ago they just cared about MPXs shoving them onto miniature sensors making all blurry, noise-reduction-damaged pictures Sep 14 15:25:06 7MPX always seemed like enough Sep 14 15:25:36 3MPx is enough for most uses Sep 14 15:25:47 true Sep 14 15:25:56 As long as you are only publishing these photos to the web, yes Sep 14 15:26:06 at least canon has actually lowered their mpx count, and I think than nikon did that too Sep 14 15:26:07 which includes: most uses Sep 14 15:26:12 For prints, 3mpx is kinda low Sep 14 15:26:22 RST38h: heck, evene 3mpx timelapse is enough for 1080p HD Sep 14 15:26:26 as long as you're not printing them on huge fine-printed posters Sep 14 15:26:34 standard prints too Sep 14 15:26:40 no Sep 14 15:26:41 you want 5-6mpx for prints Sep 14 15:26:51 standard print goes perfectly for 3mpx Sep 14 15:27:16 ah. so I said 7, thought you were answering to my number Sep 14 15:28:15 btw, has there been a nokiaworld keynote already? what'sup? Sep 14 15:29:38 someone know this building error ? http://pastebin.com/dbxV3NZH Sep 14 15:29:58 Hey guys Sep 14 15:30:05 yannux: what error? Sep 14 15:30:14 yannux: apt-get install mce-dev Sep 14 15:30:21 yannux: inside sb of course Sep 14 15:30:24 get from maemo builders Sep 14 15:30:51 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/vlc-remote_0.6-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt Sep 14 15:31:35 shove it in build-depends Sep 14 15:32:00 Build-Depends: mce-dev int he control file Sep 14 15:32:05 source section Sep 14 15:32:07 in the* Sep 14 15:32:14 ok i've just understand, trying that Sep 14 15:33:19 is there a command to know what we need to put in Build-depends ? Sep 14 15:33:38 http://maemo.org/packages/view/currencyconverter/ is not maintained anymore in extras as it is now paid app in ovi store. what are rules for making non-maintainer upload with small bugfix? Sep 14 15:34:47 hrw I haven't seen the specific rules - X-Fade may know specifically? Sep 14 15:35:23 hrw, I usually keep the maintainer field the same, but add my name in debian/changelog Sep 14 15:35:29 as I did for fmrdsnotify Sep 14 15:35:33 hrw, if it is open source, then I guess there is no problem with it Sep 14 15:35:49 ask X-Fade for details Sep 14 15:38:35 X-Fade: what is your opinion? Sep 14 15:41:08 moo Sep 14 15:42:02 "Nokia hires Peter Skillman, former Palm Design VP, as MeeGo user experience chief" Sep 14 15:42:42 MohammadAG: thanks, building OK :) Sep 14 15:42:45 javispedro: No file system. 64000-byte limit on the apps. Sep 14 15:42:52 javispedro: Start praying now. =) Sep 14 15:43:08 * javispedro has fond memories of the 64k resource limit Sep 14 15:45:58 Now you know why the multitasking poll Sep 14 15:46:04 yesss Sep 14 15:46:07 Nokia is planning to kill multitasking, palmos style!! Sep 14 15:46:21 javospedro: funny thing is, I do not think it is a joke Sep 14 15:46:51 javispedro: next stop: HTML5/CSS based UI! Sep 14 15:47:16 ah, webos. if only it was js alone Sep 14 15:47:21 Maemo 5's UI is partially HTML and CSS based already Sep 14 15:47:30 holy fucking crap Sep 14 15:47:31 for example the messaging application Sep 14 15:47:32 it is a mix of java, javascript, html5, css, and some native code Sep 14 15:47:41 people moaning about sliced bread being sliced into an odd number of slices... Sep 14 15:47:54 ahhaha Sep 14 15:48:30 javispedro: however you slice it, the end of the world is coming. Sep 14 15:48:44 javispedro: I am sure they will have to drop Qt now! =)~ Sep 14 15:48:54 does there is problem with maemo extras assistant ? garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/ give me a 404 Sep 14 15:49:35 javispedro: Skip on Harmattan (who needs it anyway) and produce a whole new JS-based device at the end of 2011! Sep 14 15:50:00 Khertan_: works here Sep 14 15:50:19 javispedro: lol the 32k limit you mean about the palm os binary limit :) Sep 14 15:50:23 javispedro: thx Sep 14 15:50:25 Khertan_: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/ Sep 14 15:50:35 Khertan_: 32k is short jump limit Sep 14 15:50:46 https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/ wfm Sep 14 15:50:49 resource/database record limit is 64k (actually 64000, not 64KiB) Sep 14 15:51:32 RST38h: I always wonder why they didn't bid on palm ;) Sep 14 15:51:40 javispedro: yes database limit ... i was more worried about the 32k jump limit Sep 14 15:52:09 you made quite long "if" branches, then :) Sep 14 15:52:15 * MohammadAG has a suggestion Sep 14 15:52:28 separate maemo from nokia Sep 14 15:52:43 make it a standalone project Sep 14 15:52:46 http://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/ give a 404 error and https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/ is ok ... funny :) Sep 14 15:52:49 isn't that what meego is for :D ? Sep 14 15:53:04 MohammadAG: nobody really wants maemo the distro Sep 14 15:53:08 people want Hildon the UI Sep 14 15:53:11 javispedro: yep ... but trying to port a scripting language mean long if branch :) Sep 14 15:53:17 I said maemo, not some RPM based crap Sep 14 15:53:28 javispedro: this is what stop me to port python to palm os :) Sep 14 15:53:29 I like the idea of full OSS, but RPM is... crap Sep 14 15:53:37 Khertan_: heh :) Sep 14 15:53:51 Khertan_: there was a port iirc, but they removed quite a lot of stuff from the interpreter Sep 14 15:54:03 >>> EOF Sep 14 15:54:07 LMAO Sep 14 15:54:11 finally got my blackberry Sep 14 15:54:11 javispedro: i'll not call that a port :) Sep 14 15:54:17 crashanddie: lol Sep 14 15:54:18 had been using everything with the same SIM card on the N900 Sep 14 15:54:27 skype, google talk, imap, the lot Sep 14 15:54:35 * RST38h checked out the NokiaWorld keynote Sep 14 15:54:37 put it in the crackberry, nothing works Sep 14 15:54:42 I love blackberries. Sep 14 15:54:45 phone works, but no internet, nothing Sep 14 15:54:51 No,these guys are no Steve Jobses... Sep 14 15:54:53 I got about a kilo from bushes by a path the other day. Sep 14 15:54:54 turns out, the line is configured for iPhone Sep 14 15:55:06 RST38h: let me guess. Symbian phone, symbian phone and ... wait for it .. yet another symbian phone. Sep 14 15:55:07 which prevents blackberry services to function properly Sep 14 15:55:16 crashanddie: of course you didn't paid for the "blackberry option" Sep 14 15:55:17 :) Sep 14 15:55:22 javispedro: "YOu can share a photo you have just taken! Imagine that!" Sep 14 15:55:34 * MohammadAG buys an iPhone Sep 14 15:55:44 what else can I do? Sep 14 15:55:45 symbian sucks Sep 14 15:55:48 :) Sep 14 15:55:52 javispedro: "Features no longer sell phones. Price sells phones!" Sep 14 15:55:54 pirates! sharing photos is for piratees!! Sep 14 15:55:56 sorry it s must go out Sep 14 15:56:12 javispedro: "C7! It is sleek!" Sep 14 15:56:14 javispedro, right, right, and... wait for it... right Sep 14 15:56:41 javispedro, nah, we have transmission for that Sep 14 15:56:56 good evening Sep 14 15:57:08 And they are presenting 4 Symbian phones that (surprise!) look almost exactly the same and run the same software Sep 14 15:57:54 4? Sep 14 15:57:55 hmm Sep 14 15:58:03 E7, C6-01, C7 Sep 14 15:58:07 did I miss another one? Sep 14 15:58:25 but but but one runs Symbian Enterprisey edition! Sep 14 15:58:30 I actually want a more agressive sharing plugin Sep 14 15:58:31 E8 Sep 14 15:58:32 he probably includes the n8 for some reason Sep 14 15:58:35 wtf Sep 14 15:58:37 E8? Sep 14 15:58:43 N8 sorry Sep 14 15:58:46 open shutter -> take pic -> close shutter -> autoshare Sep 14 15:58:59 n8 was not presented today Sep 14 15:58:59 rrrrrrrevolutionary! Sep 14 15:58:59 RST38h, that's nothing new :P Sep 14 15:59:10 * RST38h likes the way he says rrrrrrrevolutionary Sep 14 15:59:39 Mohammad: Well, the NokiaWorld2010 site shows a huge N8 showing videos Sep 14 15:59:45 Mohammad: and pretty much nothing else Sep 14 16:00:15 exactly, you wouldnt use the model of a device you havent introduced yet because the introduction's that day, to show videos of them introducing said device Sep 14 16:00:17 would they Sep 14 16:00:33 http://events.nokia.com/nokiaworld/home.htm Sep 14 16:00:37 check it, it does show 4 phones Sep 14 16:00:41 So, cutting the crap, no mention ofMaemo or Meego so far? Sep 14 16:01:03 (right on the js-based slow slider) Sep 14 16:01:40 This guy looks ridiculous :( Sep 14 16:01:55 Odd - I see no feed on the above page Sep 14 16:01:58 Is it still ongoing? Sep 14 16:01:59 He should stop copying Jobs, he is no Jobs=( Sep 14 16:02:05 http://events.nokia.com/nokiaworld/home.htm Sep 14 16:03:09 offering a set of identical-looking phones with similar feature sets is not exactly what I think is going to kill Jobs. Sep 14 16:04:02 Nothing (other than cancer) is going to kill Jobs. Sep 14 16:04:09 * javispedro wonders if they all have capactivie screen Sep 14 16:04:13 Right now, Nokia should be happy if it manages to kill RIM Sep 14 16:04:37 Odd - still no video. Sep 14 16:04:48 Chances for which are pretty low anyway =( Sep 14 16:04:59 isn't RIM already dead? Sep 14 16:05:12 Maybe in .IL, but not in the US Sep 14 16:05:19 They all run the same software, but even so, the next useful-looking tiny app that comes out of Nokia is for some unexplainable reason only going to work on half of them? :-) Sep 14 16:05:31 They are providers of "secure, ubiquitous business email" Sep 14 16:05:42 TERRORISTS! Sep 14 16:05:51 Only terrorists want secure email. Sep 14 16:06:07 SpeedEvil: Well,you should ask Arkenoi about the "secure" part. He says it is pure snake oil Sep 14 16:06:30 SpeedEvil: None of the suits ever bother to check what "secure" means for RIM ;) Sep 14 16:06:32 dunno - not investigated. Sep 14 16:06:41 tbh Sep 14 16:06:49 if you use strong crypto, you're a terrorist Sep 14 16:06:49 I was under the impression you could have a secure server controlled by your company Sep 14 16:06:50 it's proven Sep 14 16:06:50 BBs and iPhones fail over here :P Sep 14 16:07:02 most people use Symbian Sep 14 16:07:08 why wouldn't you want your government spying on you otherwise Sep 14 16:07:09 ugh, forum nokia... Sep 14 16:07:11 Mohammad: I am sure it is the sand getting in =) Sep 14 16:07:26 some admin at my school sold his iPhone and got an N900 (sigh) Sep 14 16:07:26 ShadowJK: so far completely worthless. Sep 14 16:07:30 prob hand the crypt to the nsa or gov to go snooping Sep 14 16:07:32 Mohammad: Or the lack of bacon! Sep 14 16:07:36 BACON Sep 14 16:07:44 bacon indeed xD Sep 14 16:08:04 bacon bacon yumyum Sep 14 16:08:05 BBs are the shit with all the trendy folks here, the rest of the populace use symbian, with less than one percent probably using samsung/etc. I think I'm the only N900 in a few 100km radius Sep 14 16:08:13 javispedro, no I was trying to access forum nokia to get specs on these new things, and the site is kinda b0rked Sep 14 16:08:29 ShadowJK: if you get to know if any of them is resistive please tell Sep 14 16:08:32 is the video borked for anyone else? Sep 14 16:08:52 C6 probably is. A guy at work has one Sep 14 16:08:56 SpeedEvil: No,just you. you have been naughty again! Sep 14 16:09:11 We had a really tough time to determine whether it was resistive or not, btw Sep 14 16:09:17 if _at least_ _ONE_ of the identical-looking phones is resistive in a sea of capacitive screens, well. Sep 14 16:09:26 ShadowJK: you don't have a stylus nearby? Sep 14 16:09:40 it didn't come with one Sep 14 16:09:48 but the screen worked with a pen, so.. Sep 14 16:09:50 bad vibe Sep 14 16:10:01 if it works with a pen it's resistive. Sep 14 16:10:18 There is a perceptible springiness to a resistive screen Sep 14 16:10:25 the screen indents by 0.1mm or so Sep 14 16:10:40 just wear a glove or 10 Sep 14 16:10:48 Oh wait, I think his was a C6-00 and this new one is C6-01? I wonder what hte difference is Sep 14 16:10:58 ShadowJK: Different phones Sep 14 16:11:04 SpeedEvil, oh we couldn't find it.. or rather, you stop pressing once it reacts, and it reacted instantly.. Sep 14 16:11:08 Also - reflect a distant scene off the touchscreen Sep 14 16:11:15 like the X3 and the X3-02 Sep 14 16:11:16 and you can see the indent Sep 14 16:11:18 Yet another identical-looking phone with similar feature set Sep 14 16:11:21 ShadowJK: Some bright light at Nokia decided that this naming convention will make it easier for customers Sep 14 16:11:33 the c6-01 is capacitive Sep 14 16:11:34 Nokia's losing it hardware-wise Sep 14 16:11:36 oh god, why the hell do they have different phones with same name? wtf? Sep 14 16:11:44 they're doing it the apple way Sep 14 16:11:54 old hardware in new devices Sep 14 16:12:00 the also sell the same phone with different names Sep 14 16:12:03 *they Sep 14 16:12:06 ShadowJK: Because the bright light said "why do we have all these numbers, let us have no more than 10 models in each category, with bigger numbers being better" Sep 14 16:12:08 the iPhone 2G was lulz Sep 14 16:12:21 2MP cam, no 3G, shitty specs overall Sep 14 16:12:25 but it worked Sep 14 16:12:27 ShadowJK: That light has been too bright to consider what happens when new phones come out and the name space gets clobbered Sep 14 16:12:39 hah, "Display Touch Technology" is "-" on C6-01, N8, E7-00, but "Resistive single touch" on C6-00 Sep 14 16:13:03 Capacitive on all 3 afaik Sep 14 16:13:05 kik Sep 14 16:13:06 no, the c6-01 specs on nokia clearly state a capacitive amoled screen Sep 14 16:13:07 lol Sep 14 16:13:24 so all of the phones ara capacitive low res screens. so much for choice. Sep 14 16:13:37 Symbian^3 needs multitouch Sep 14 16:13:48 at least for Nokia's apps Sep 14 16:14:01 Haha. Sep 14 16:14:09 javispedro, symbian has always been 640x360 on touch devices Sep 14 16:14:09 Nokiaworld live webstream. Sep 14 16:14:15 what Symbian^3 truly need is insanity. a sane user cannot live with it. Sep 14 16:14:18 Fails on n900 with 'latest flash needed' Sep 14 16:14:29 ROFL Sep 14 16:14:40 SpeedEvil, lol, but that into bmo just for the laughs Sep 14 16:14:40 fake flash version Sep 14 16:14:43 put that* Sep 14 16:15:19 'I was heartbroken not to be able to watch the exciting world-changing announcements at ...' Sep 14 16:15:27 lol Sep 14 16:15:29 too much drama Sep 14 16:15:29 xD Sep 14 16:15:50 So this E7-00 thing has 4" screen? Sep 14 16:16:12 yeah, with a shitty res Sep 14 16:16:33 C6-00 has "Video Ringtones", which isn't mentioned for C6-01 Sep 14 16:16:34 and an ARM11 CPU Sep 14 16:16:36 lulz Sep 14 16:16:48 It says ARM11 on them all? Sep 14 16:16:51 yes Sep 14 16:16:58 No cortex A8s afaik Sep 14 16:17:10 or A9s Sep 14 16:17:11 btw 640x360 res is called "nHD" seemingly Sep 14 16:17:16 I wonder if the n stands for "negative" Sep 14 16:17:20 A9 basically doesn't exist yet Sep 14 16:17:21 wasn't it mHD? Sep 14 16:17:30 I remember it was an m on my N97 Sep 14 16:17:32 mostlyHD? Sep 14 16:17:34 javispedro: N stands for "nuclear" Sep 14 16:17:36 magnetohydrodynamic! Sep 14 16:17:41 javispedro: I thought you knew Sep 14 16:17:41 It's a caterpillar drive! Sep 14 16:17:47 ai think it's neljännesHD in Finnish, "quarterHD" Sep 14 16:18:00 MohammadAG: might be, just looking at wikipedia Sep 14 16:18:23 ShadowJK: A9 does exist Sep 14 16:18:29 "Nuclear High Definition" truly sounds like a Jobs catchphrase Sep 14 16:18:32 ShadowJK: Just not being produced in large numbers Sep 14 16:18:51 hmm, nHD Sep 14 16:19:02 RST38h, well kinda, I saw someone on IRC that had one. It was one and a half core in an FPGA, running at 50MHz :-) Sep 14 16:19:07 ShadowJK: Remember, starting with Cortex, ARM works with manufacturers to adjust architecture to their processes Sep 14 16:19:10 javispedro, would sell well over here :P Sep 14 16:19:23 that would* Sep 14 16:19:28 ShadowJK: Well, I can put an ARM7 into FPGA, does not mean it does not exist :) Sep 14 16:19:56 Two ARM7 + ARM1 = ARM15 Sep 14 16:20:41 * RST38h needs to go to the airport in 45 minutes Sep 14 16:21:20 going home Sep 14 16:21:22 see y'all Sep 14 16:21:24 I wonder why Nokia killed the d-pad Sep 14 16:21:27 cya crashanddie Sep 14 16:21:32 SpeedEvil: "Satan Runs ARM666!" Sep 14 16:21:40 Good marketing slogan too Sep 14 16:21:54 MohammadAG: Because we, punks, complained about it so much! Sep 14 16:22:04 MohammadAG: No dpad, no problem. Sep 14 16:22:04 RST38h, why? Sep 14 16:22:06 ARM666 now on the Nokia C666 running Symbian^666 Sep 14 16:22:11 MohammadAG: Because it sucked. Sep 14 16:22:17 RST38h, why? Sep 14 16:22:35 arrows don't work for games Sep 14 16:22:39 MohammadAG: Nokia has been either too cheap or too stubborn to copy dpad design from some gaming system, like SEGA or something Sep 14 16:22:43 not that the N900 has any exciting ones Sep 14 16:23:06 MohammadAG: Instead, they kept coming up with their own, visually attractive, but fragile and uncomfortable designs Sep 14 16:23:30 MohammadAG: N800 dpad was barely useful. N810/N97 dpad was useless Sep 14 16:23:33 I liked the N97's one tbh Sep 14 16:23:35 They don't have on-platform games. Sep 14 16:23:48 They can't push emulators as the answer to games for rights reasons. Sep 14 16:23:54 I found N800 dpad useful :/ Sep 14 16:24:11 MohammadAG: E70/E50/E61 had a little stick instead, which (surprisingly) worked for most users, but got worn out soon Sep 14 16:24:20 N73 too Sep 14 16:24:27 it broke on a friend's phone Sep 14 16:24:32 MohammadAG: Later E61 analogs have got "optical" dpad which also was a disaster Sep 14 16:24:34 but the N97's D-Pad was good imo Sep 14 16:24:53 MohammadAG: + *all* Nokia deviced have ENTER key mapped to dpad center Sep 14 16:24:59 e90's dpad both internal and external worked well too Sep 14 16:25:00 MohammadAG: Which makes it useless for gaming Sep 14 16:25:03 E75 has the N810 dpad in a more sensible location .. Sep 14 16:25:09 RST38h, remap? Sep 14 16:25:20 MohammadAG: WHERE? :) Sep 14 16:25:23 I really can't press two arrows on the n900 together Sep 14 16:25:36 I used to be able to go up-right on the N97 Sep 14 16:25:46 but the N97 ran the emu at 11 fps fullscreen, so.. meh Sep 14 16:25:53 MohammadAG: They basically have to force themselves to look at a SEGA gamepad and copy dpad design Sep 14 16:26:07 screw d-pads Sep 14 16:26:12 add a sixaxis analog stick Sep 14 16:26:22 MohammadAG: Yes, it will be akin to losing virginity, but shit, at least they will get the best dpad Sep 14 16:26:39 no, no, the analog stick won't do, requires thick hardware Sep 14 16:27:05 "Nokia has something big with Maemo....." (skip 1 year) "Nokia has something big with Meego...." (skip 1 year) "Nokia has something big with MeCloneWebOS...." (skip 1 year) "Nokia has something big with S40...." Sep 14 16:27:13 the analog stick on the PSP is k Sep 14 16:27:32 * MohammadAG skips 1 year Sep 14 16:27:42 Nokia has something big with bankruptcy Sep 14 16:28:15 * RST38h skips 5 more years: Nokia had something in common with Commodore Sep 14 16:28:37 RST38h, Nomodore Sep 14 16:29:10 ab: HTML5! CSS! JS! Sep 14 16:29:15 ;) Sep 14 16:29:38 RST38h, stop screaming! you are an interrupt, not a speaker :) Sep 14 16:29:55 MohammadAG, accelerometer. Sep 14 16:30:04 ab: Just causing exceptions... Sep 14 16:30:12 lcuk, accelerometer and touch fail for epic games Sep 14 16:30:16 like quake 3 :P Sep 14 16:30:20 i never said touch Sep 14 16:30:27 I'm just saying Sep 14 16:31:03 my head hurts Sep 14 16:31:04 brb Sep 14 16:31:15 in years gone by, I have seen people with old style joysticks leaning over and tilting joystick to try and get round that tricky corner more Sep 14 16:31:19 RST38h, I'm sure you have seen this: http://www.z80.info/sint.htm Sep 14 16:31:25 nowadays the technology is there to allow it! Sep 14 16:32:16 ab: yea, and much much worse... Sep 14 16:32:41 RST38h, please rename yourself into FFh :) Sep 14 16:32:52 ab: My favorite one was someone storing temporary values on the NES PPU bus Sep 14 16:33:06 that should have been really cool thing to do Sep 14 16:33:13 ab: By writing into a non-existing PPU register, then reading back after several instructions Sep 14 16:34:44 :) Sep 14 16:35:15 * luke-jr grumbles Sep 14 16:35:24 N900 keeps losing its SIP registration Sep 14 16:42:14 hah, htc's also going to announce some phone tomorrow Sep 14 16:44:11 uninteresting android phones! whee! Sep 14 16:44:25 competition to uninteresting symbian phones! Sep 14 16:44:55 ml-remote: and what IS interesting? Sep 14 16:45:14 javispedro: yay, uninteresting market! Sep 14 16:45:56 luke-jr: broadcom going open source, only thing that would be more exciting would be imagination, arm, and qualcomm opening their video drivers Sep 14 16:46:18 but that's unlikely, so I'm just kinda sitting idle Sep 14 16:46:23 ml-remote, bd's going open? Sep 14 16:46:39 MohammadAG51: yeah, didn't you see the buzz regarding their wifi drivers? Sep 14 16:46:55 ml-remote: Broadcom is going open source? Sep 14 16:47:02 err Sep 14 16:47:12 they're opening wifi drivers that have been replaced already? Sep 14 16:47:17 luke-jr, yeah, didn't you see the buzz regarding their wifi drivers? Sep 14 16:47:18 that's hardly Broadcom going open source Sep 14 16:47:18 lo MohammadAG51 Sep 14 16:47:19 :P Sep 14 16:47:25 that's them releasing irrelevant code Sep 14 16:47:36 luke-jr: irrelevant? Sep 14 16:47:38 luke-jr: some of those still only had ndiswrapper Sep 14 16:47:38 hey DocScrutinizer51 Sep 14 16:47:42 yes, irrelevant Sep 14 16:47:42 Peter Skillman (what an awesome second name) - my first real competitor :D Sep 14 16:47:55 javispedro: it was only a matter of time Sep 14 16:47:56 wazd: palmos guy! Sep 14 16:47:56 luke-jr: how so, considering it's for their newest chipsets? Sep 14 16:48:07 i hate broadcom Sep 14 16:48:14 intel's cards are awesome Sep 14 16:48:25 "Broadcom going open source" headline is for when they release a port of Linux supporting 100% of their chipset Sep 14 16:48:27 at least connecting using those on ubuntu takes half a sec Sep 14 16:48:30 javispedro: I should change my name to Andrew Shopmaster or something :) Sep 14 16:48:41 so I can run Linux on my cable modem Sep 14 16:48:42 :) Sep 14 16:48:48 and tell it to ignore the stupid caps <.< Sep 14 16:48:55 luke-jr: certainly more probable now than before, and you can always bash them more Sep 14 16:49:00 OpenWRT wfm, sorta :p Sep 14 16:49:03 I'm sure people making moves towards being open love being bashed Sep 14 16:49:07 javispedro: or Andrew Conceptlord :D Sep 14 16:49:25 ml-remote: technically speaking, what they're doing is still illegal Sep 14 16:49:28 Conceptmaster is ok Sep 14 16:49:39 by violating the GPL once, they forever lost the privilege of copying the code Sep 14 16:49:54 they can't just start complying now to make it all ok Sep 14 16:50:38 oh, i didn't notice the n8 can charge both from the 2mm plug and mUSB port Sep 14 16:50:47 luke-jr: how did they violate the GPL? Sep 14 16:50:56 could be for OTG Sep 14 16:51:00 ml-remote: by not distributing the source Sep 14 16:51:19 luke-jr: ahh, even Linus will argue that Sep 14 16:51:38 luke-jr: how not distributing the source is violating GPL? Sep 14 16:51:45 dos1: Linux is GPL. Sep 14 16:51:53 read the GPL, or hire a lawyer to do so Sep 14 16:52:03 javispedro: seriously, if he's really the guy behind webos UI concept, then MeeGo Nokia Handset UI is safe :) Sep 14 16:52:08 luke-jr: did they distrubute Linux as binary only? :p Sep 14 16:52:29 dos1: yes, a binary patch for it Sep 14 16:52:36 aka "kernel module" Sep 14 16:53:17 luke-jr: i know what's GPL, kernel module etc. are, you don't have to explain everything to me like to kid Sep 14 16:53:27 dos1: you asked. Sep 14 16:53:33 luke-jr: and distributing binary kernel modules is not violating GPL Sep 14 16:53:37 it is Sep 14 16:53:42 that's why i asked, where did they violate GPL Sep 14 16:53:46 like I said, if you have questions, hire an IP lawyer Sep 14 16:53:58 luke-jr: maybe you should do that? ;) Sep 14 16:54:07 dos1: don't need to Sep 14 16:54:12 neither me Sep 14 16:54:15 luke-jr: if you apply a binary patch by yourself and never distribute the resulting binary, how does it violate the GPL? Sep 14 16:54:37 (note that broadcom is not doing that -- broadcom is shipping the patched binary with their products, so they're guilty) Sep 14 16:54:43 javispedro: patches are derived works Sep 14 16:55:17 bbl Sep 14 16:57:19 dos1: "I've had the misfortune of talking to a lot of different IP lawyers over the years about this topic, and every one that I've talked to all agree that there is no way that anyone can create a Linux kernel module, today, that can be closed source." Sep 14 16:57:30 http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/ols_2006_keynote.html Sep 14 17:07:00 luke-jr: you mean code, which was later released by Cisco for WRT54G? Sep 14 17:10:05 Hi again Sep 14 17:10:35 dos1: hm? Sep 14 17:10:48 luke-jr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcom#GPL_violation Sep 14 17:11:31 Maybe someone can help me. It seems i broke notification in Khweeteur>0.0.29 each time i click on a notification it launch an other Khweeteur process instead of calling back the actual ruuning one. Sep 14 17:11:49 is there a way to monitor dbus on device ? Sep 14 17:12:03 dos1: sure, that is sufficiently vague that it might be their first GPL violation Sep 14 17:12:21 Ev'ning Sep 14 17:13:13 aiv ningue Jaffa Sep 14 17:13:38 dos1: while nobody actually has the authority to grant Broadcom a new license to Linux, I personally think it'd be fair to do so if they've released the driver source, and at least licensed a firmware for free redistribution Sep 14 17:13:43 * Jaffa needs to find thp at the Nokia World party tonight. Sep 14 17:13:54 luke-jr: ok, but from where did you get that: "by violating the GPL once, they forever lost the privilege of copying the code"? Sep 14 17:14:01 dos1: the GPL itself Sep 14 17:14:02 ...and apparently missed some free N8s being given out :-/ Sep 14 17:14:16 dos1: the GPL gives no "rehabilitation" method Sep 14 17:14:21 :) Sep 14 17:14:28 so when revoked, it reverts back to standard copyright (= no copying) Sep 14 17:14:39 what will you do with an n8 ... it s run meego ... Sep 14 17:15:08 s/it s run/it s run symbian Sep 14 17:16:27 what does the blue LED flashing twice mean? Sep 14 17:16:37 message has arrived Sep 14 17:16:47 ml-remote: that's just a single flash Sep 14 17:16:55 mine flashes twice Sep 14 17:17:07 maybe that's just for e-mail? Sep 14 17:17:08 same here Sep 14 17:17:09 hm Sep 14 17:17:46 in fact I've only seen my LED make 4 colors: yellow, orange, blue, and green Sep 14 17:18:20 actually Sep 14 17:18:24 the LED is RGB Sep 14 17:18:39 actually Sep 14 17:18:46 there are three LEDs ;) Sep 14 17:18:53 yeah, but this is 2 flashes in quick sequence Sep 14 17:19:08 as dos1 said Sep 14 17:19:11 three LEDs Sep 14 17:19:17 ah, you are right for SMSes it's twice Sep 14 17:19:21 yellow is a mix of orange and some other colour Sep 14 17:19:25 but this phone doesn't show any new SMS Sep 14 17:19:26 err Sep 14 17:19:30 get led pattern editor and see it in action Sep 14 17:19:31 red and some other colour Sep 14 17:19:51 kill mce and interface with it directly Sep 14 17:19:55 you can do new colours Sep 14 17:19:58 more than 6 Sep 14 17:25:57 hi all Sep 14 17:26:23 is someone kind enough to compile iodine 0.4.2 for me? Sep 14 17:26:24 :3 Sep 14 17:26:37 err Sep 14 17:26:45 i compiled iodine for someone Sep 14 17:26:58 so you can do the same for me! Sep 14 17:26:59 :D Sep 14 17:27:08 Version: 0.6.0-rc1-maemo1 Sep 14 17:27:10 anyone tried the uboot for n900 yet? Sep 14 17:27:12 is in devel Sep 14 17:27:20 b-man`, did Sep 14 17:27:21 MohammadAG51: hmm Sep 14 17:27:26 i hope it works on a 0.4.2 server Sep 14 17:31:49 it doesn't :( Sep 14 17:34:45 trying to figure out converting zImage to uImage, any special command line options needed for mkimage (-a or -e)? Sep 14 17:36:35 * frals slaps VDVsx around a bit with a large trout Sep 14 17:40:07 ~chase frals Sep 14 17:40:08 * infobot chases frals Sep 14 17:40:21 :P Sep 14 17:40:29 infobot, bad bot Sep 14 17:40:29 Bad bot, bad! No cookie for you! Sep 14 17:40:45 he has Alzheimer it seems Sep 14 17:48:43 I love it when FedEx delivers to an address 1500 miles away, and doesn't get a signature because they know it's wrong. Sep 14 17:50:01 france, or dritten reich, as we know it :) Sep 14 17:50:34 i'm trying to play back a video file with phonon and i keep getting an error saying that gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not installed, but it is Sep 14 17:50:41 is this a bug or am i doing it wrong? :) Sep 14 17:52:08 cyanogen, that will be qt trying to be too clever I guess Sep 14 17:52:45 since it sounds like its looking for something it thinks comes from the plugins-good package Sep 14 17:53:12 Anybody at the MeeGo dev watchamagoo? Sep 14 17:53:28 GAN900, qgil and regiie at least Sep 14 17:53:34 reggie even Sep 14 17:53:42 at least htats what I think Sep 14 17:53:53 cyanogen, does phonon work on android? Sep 14 18:06:03 * lcuk vanishes Sep 14 18:09:31 Saw this comment in engadget about E7 liked it, holds true for N900 as well. "If a device supports multitasking, it should have enough power to avoid this UI lag. If it doesn't have enough power, it should manage it's tasks so that the user doesn't experience this lag. The smart in smartphone should refer to the phone, not to it's users." Sep 14 18:10:13 bah Sep 14 18:10:17 bah. Sep 14 18:10:27 bah Sep 14 18:10:36 bah. Sep 14 18:10:37 overclock it = lag gone Sep 14 18:11:00 i prefer a device allowing me to do whatever i want with it over being restricted so i can see some transition effect at x fps Sep 14 18:11:28 tbh, my n900 has been acting up a little lately. it didn't want to quit the media player :D Sep 14 18:11:56 i almost resorted to taking out the battery, but luckily pressing the power switch helped Sep 14 18:12:19 wtb votes :( http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/fmms/1.2.5/ Sep 14 18:12:31 VDVsx, i hear you are a frequent fmms user, vote! Sep 14 18:14:20 trumee, it's a function of optimization, not power. Sep 14 18:14:27 frals, not really :D Sep 14 18:14:59 bah! :p Sep 14 18:15:00 I am almost sure that wlancond is using a minimum signal quality threshold for allowing connection (when the connection would be perfectly usable below it)... any idea where can I avoid or change that threshold? Sep 14 18:15:07 GAN900: i liked the last bit of the comment about smartphone, made me laugh. Sep 14 18:15:20 Hey anyone using Hermes? Sep 14 18:17:00 ack got pulled into a meeting :/ Sep 14 18:20:12 hello all.. Sep 14 18:20:16 yo Sep 14 18:20:25 Are you using Hermes?^^ Sep 14 18:21:15 hey is there any possibility to run maemo5 in qemu? Sep 14 18:21:15 Tott3[AEX]: i have used it in the past. Sep 14 18:21:36 Do i have to name my contacts as their called on etc Facebook to get their pictures? Sep 14 18:21:44 Or does it recorgnise the number? Sep 14 18:21:53 Tott3[AEX]: no idea! Sep 14 18:21:57 doh;( Sep 14 18:22:15 Tott3[AEX]: not sure if Hermes can read phone numbers from facebook. Sep 14 18:22:25 Don't think it can Sep 14 18:22:35 Can't check either, think i'll get my phone tomorrow=P Sep 14 18:22:39 hermes doesn't Sep 14 18:22:56 Tott3[AEX], also it needs them to be named somewhat correctly Sep 14 18:23:01 if they aren't, you can merge them Sep 14 18:23:06 Ah okay, cheers Sep 14 18:23:30 mer needs run under maemo5?, i mean chrooted.. Sep 14 18:24:21 when i run start-hildon run but i cant see buttons in the desktop :/ Sep 14 18:26:35 please, i was 2 weeks testing and looking for help but im a little confuse :/ Sep 14 18:27:30 mer needs maemo behind? Sep 14 18:27:55 #mer Sep 14 18:28:32 and -- of course not. Sep 14 18:28:58 hola javi, no puedes hecharme un cable plis? Sep 14 18:29:56 pm me Sep 14 18:30:07 k :) Sep 14 18:38:48 I think this confirms my suspicions: "#define WLANCOND_RSSI_PENALTY 25 // 25dBm" Sep 14 18:38:53 Any idea how to change that value? Sep 14 18:39:10 what suspicions? Sep 14 18:39:21 what suspicions, indeed? Sep 14 18:39:26 Thatthevaticanisattheheart of a conspiracy to crack HDMI? Sep 14 18:40:33 that wlancond is using a minimin threshold for allowing initial association to an AP (when the connection would be perfectly usable below it) Sep 14 18:41:01 I want to tell it not to use it temporarily, or being able to change the value Sep 14 18:41:03 wlancond is not as smart as you think Sep 14 18:41:40 * SpeedEvil thinks it may have the intelligence of a blended kitten. Sep 14 18:41:56 well, in my tests it is showing it is not doing the initial association unless the signal is well below minimun possible Sep 14 18:42:18 and that define seems to confirm it, doesnt it? Sep 14 18:42:24 But wlancond is part of the closed-source crown jewels. Sep 14 18:42:27 yes Sep 14 18:42:36 nope Sep 14 18:42:39 wlancond is open Sep 14 18:42:40 so that I cannot change the define, but maybe there some way to tell it to do it Sep 14 18:42:41 * SpeedEvil sighs at the retardation. Sep 14 18:42:42 It is? Sep 14 18:42:45 ye Sep 14 18:42:45 perhaps it is configurable Sep 14 18:42:49 * SpeedEvil sighs at the retardation. Sep 14 18:43:02 the crypto parts aren't (separate binary) Sep 14 18:43:05 open? full open source it is not, is it? Sep 14 18:43:21 theres some code and documentation, yes Sep 14 18:43:36 yes, the entire source code of the wlancond daemon is available. Sep 14 18:43:55 you maybe missed it because it is quite small. as I said, the daemon doesn't do much. Sep 14 18:43:56 but if i cannot change the #define and recompile unless it provices some functional way to do, its closed for me :( Sep 14 18:44:19 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle-20091116/source/osso-wlan/dbus-handler.c Sep 14 18:44:20 oh, btw, maybe when i refer to wlancond I also do to icd Sep 14 18:44:20 I missed it as there is no nice page listing all theopen parts. Sep 14 18:44:29 there you have the implementation of settings_and_connect handler Sep 14 18:44:33 as they both collaborate in the same mess Sep 14 18:44:47 btw guys http://pastebin.com/kqD56TmU Sep 14 18:45:40 javispedro, thx, gonna read Sep 14 18:45:48 Anyone in .it around Milano looking for work? Sep 14 18:46:07 what kind of work? I will move to Milano. Sep 14 18:46:10 ;) Sep 14 18:46:24 i'm about 500 km lower Sep 14 18:46:55 and i'm also studying at the uni Sep 14 18:47:11 and i'm not skilled enough for a job Sep 14 18:48:18 blizzow: automatic metro installation, central control system, linux + hw installation and testing Sep 14 18:48:37 pm me if you are around here Sep 14 18:49:08 ooh, milan is adding a new metro line? Sep 14 18:49:23 kerio: yes, that metro Sep 14 19:02:05 hey MNZ! /me cursing at slow vmware scratchbox:P Sep 14 19:02:22 FrieT! Sep 14 19:02:36 How're your speakers? alive and kicking I hope :D Sep 14 19:02:59 sure are. didn't manage to compile yet, still setting up scratchbox Sep 14 19:03:03 it's darn slow on vmware Sep 14 19:03:25 but my new workstation is arriving later this week Sep 14 19:03:29 that should blast its way through this Sep 14 19:03:39 keep me posted! Sep 14 19:03:49 and allow for -j16 compiles on raid0 ssd's Sep 14 19:04:02 i shall! Sep 14 19:04:08 hey guys&girls Sep 14 19:04:27 hello again Venemo Sep 14 19:04:27 question: did anyone think of clustering the n900 into something neat?;P Sep 14 19:04:49 FrieT, heh is it worth it? Sep 14 19:05:09 sure! think about the fun we could have at a flashmob using ad-hoc wifi! Sep 14 19:05:41 * FrieT crawls back into the dark geekcave Sep 14 19:06:06 I'm imagining things yes..... reminded me of improv everywhere B) Sep 14 19:06:10 ok wth! this image is outdated and wants to update 1186 packages.. noooot going to happen :D Sep 14 19:06:31 * FrieT clicks the handy revert to snapshot button:p Sep 14 19:07:01 in a beowulf cluster, the crappiest nodes have GigE Sep 14 19:07:11 clustering over wifi is counterproductive Sep 14 19:07:24 depends Sep 14 19:07:39 kerio, I don't think he wants clustering for processing purposes Sep 14 19:07:42 if they're highly independent blocks of computative work.. Sep 14 19:07:53 or not Sep 14 19:08:02 nahh this is just a "because we can" thing Sep 14 19:08:17 but latency isn't always the limiting factor. it usually is. Sep 14 19:08:49 we could be a walking folding@home cluster! doing a funny dance while folding! Sep 14 19:09:35 ok frustrating. the prefab image only supports UP on vmware :& Sep 14 19:11:04 there's no folding@home for arm Sep 14 19:12:07 qemu Sep 14 19:12:11 qemu? Sep 14 19:12:15 why not just bochs? Sep 14 19:12:39 qemu is probably faster than bochs? Sep 14 19:12:45 on arm ? Sep 14 19:12:55 can't really do native stuff on it can it? Sep 14 19:13:35 I think qemu still does JIT on arm? Sep 14 19:13:41 that'd be neat Sep 14 19:13:42 http://www.adobe.com/support/security/advisories/apsa10-03.html Sep 14 19:13:54 uh Sep 14 19:13:59 so adobe has yet another vuln Sep 14 19:14:02 who still cares? Sep 14 19:14:20 Now I see why Nokia felt like not reacting to last flash vulnerability :-P Sep 14 19:14:34 wake me up when a week passes without someone finding an adobe-induced hole Sep 14 19:14:36 well ofc ourse Sep 14 19:15:34 DocScrutinizer, why's that? Sep 14 19:15:44 why's what? Sep 14 19:16:29 ShadowJK: adobe flash vulnerabilities? Sep 14 19:16:51 ShadowJK: I don't know why there's another one every other month Sep 14 19:29:32 poor coding? Sep 14 19:29:53 poor coding? nah Sep 14 19:29:54 no way Sep 14 19:30:01 bad luck Sep 14 19:30:29 yes it's all about luck Sep 14 19:30:30 :p Sep 14 19:30:34 ok hmz Sep 14 19:30:41 wth is this Sep 14 19:30:59 * FrieT tries to get this weird prefab ubuntu scratchbox image to work Sep 14 19:31:19 apparently there's a new svn location Sep 14 19:31:20 updated that Sep 14 19:31:21 hz Sep 14 19:31:22 hmm Sep 14 19:31:48 great it ruined the graphic settings Sep 14 19:31:57 lol Sep 14 19:34:35 why does it have a gui anyhow Sep 14 19:35:01 MNZ! curse this thing ! :p Sep 14 19:35:08 FrieT, meh why don't just use debian like the rest of us :P Sep 14 19:35:25 i thought the prefab image would make it *easier* !! Sep 14 19:35:37 i can see now how wrong i was ! Sep 14 19:35:38 :p Sep 14 19:35:48 in theory, yes.... just pop it on and it works. Sep 14 19:35:54 weird Sep 14 19:35:57 it's horribly outdated Sep 14 19:36:11 do you have any debian CDs?? Sep 14 19:36:30 nop Sep 14 19:36:33 but netboot will do Sep 14 19:36:35 netinstall Sep 14 19:36:35 even Sep 14 19:36:44 wait it's downloading scratchbox Sep 14 19:36:45 finally Sep 14 19:36:52 skipped the "convert to vmware" Sep 14 19:36:59 now at least it doesn't fuck up the graphics Sep 14 19:37:05 i already converted to vmware for it, ffs Sep 14 19:37:12 otherwise it wouldn't be running now would it!:p Sep 14 19:37:12 ^^ Sep 14 19:37:23 tzijn ook altijd dezelfde die ge overal tegenkomt ;) Sep 14 19:37:27 hi FrieT :P Sep 14 19:37:29 ghost! Sep 14 19:37:41 wie gehst mensch:) Sep 14 19:37:53 good Sep 14 19:38:12 fellow n900 user?:) Sep 14 19:38:12 still at work trying to bend my head around non-working webservers :x Sep 14 19:38:17 ofcourse :p Sep 14 19:38:32 impressive:D Sep 14 19:38:39 non-working webservers ey Sep 14 19:38:39 :D Sep 14 19:38:56 i was scheduled for a whole day of pain and misery Sep 14 19:38:57 the usual nothing new there ... Sep 14 19:39:01 new hardware on its way :) Sep 14 19:39:03 but surprisingly it all worked out very well Sep 14 19:39:10 was done at 15h Sep 14 19:39:13 well i also got some good news Sep 14 19:39:25 no working on thursday from 2am till 6am :p Sep 14 19:39:25 you died Sep 14 19:39:26 ? Sep 14 19:39:27 oh Sep 14 19:39:40 close enough Sep 14 19:39:45 while i normally start at 7am ;) Sep 14 19:39:55 hurray Sep 14 19:40:00 * FrieT scratches head Sep 14 19:40:00 :p Sep 14 19:40:10 grrrrr Sep 14 19:40:20 8meg/s download Sep 14 19:40:25 slowpoke!:( Sep 14 19:40:36 5 minutes eta.. i don't have no 5 minutes Sep 14 19:40:55 8 what per how much now? Sep 14 19:41:01 Crap, my mobile provider three is sucking out a lot of money from me because i go above my free minutes every month. Is there a way to pop-up a warning for mobile call timer? Sep 14 19:41:03 I do 25kb/s Sep 14 19:41:15 8mbit:s Sep 14 19:41:28 I end up paying double the cost of the contract and it sucks Sep 14 19:41:29 i'm spoiled to working on the datacenter machines MNZ Sep 14 19:41:58 trumee: *SPs should be compelled to provide a simple API Sep 14 19:42:00 where i come from harddisks are the bottlenecks when downloading large files ;D Sep 14 19:42:11 Is there any script i can run which can count the mobile timer and pop up a warning. Sep 14 19:42:28 trumee: A JSON page for example with a simple 'you have this much left' number Sep 14 19:42:44 FrieT, yeah I know that feeling B) I have access to a bunch of 100mbit connections. Not much, but a nice change from 256kbit Sep 14 19:42:53 trumee: So you just need to tell a standard app about it and it works across all *SPs Sep 14 19:42:54 sure is Sep 14 19:42:58 SpeedEvil: Three used to send me warning when i was on a 24month contract, but on there sim-only contract they dont send me warnings Sep 14 19:43:05 :/ Sep 14 19:43:24 i do enjoy the occasional ratelimiting though Sep 14 19:43:32 SpeedEvil: yes, there indeed is a webpage which i can lookup but i forget to do it every month. Sep 14 19:43:33 that 9600baud retro feeling Sep 14 19:43:34 i love it Sep 14 19:43:51 really gt try it to re-appreciate what you ahve Sep 14 19:43:52 have* Sep 14 19:43:52 trumee: I don't mean a random webpage, that differs with every ISP. Sep 14 19:44:12 introduce random packet loss, some latency, and police the shit out of your connection. eye-opener:) Sep 14 19:44:13 trumee: I mean a fixed format one that can be displayed prominently on your desktop. Sep 14 19:44:23 lol Sep 14 19:44:27 SpeedEvil: i see. But for now is there a way to query the mobile timer on N900 Sep 14 19:44:38 Sorry - I'm just wibbling. Sep 14 19:44:39 mobile timer? Sep 14 19:44:42 I do that a lot. Sep 14 19:44:56 is that like an eggcooking thing? Sep 14 19:44:56 Hi Sep 14 19:45:01 ssh root@phone beep Sep 14 19:45:03 argh Sep 14 19:45:10 omg Sep 14 19:45:19 at least go for ssh user@phone sudo beep Sep 14 19:45:22 FrieT: yes, Phone > Call timers > Mobile calls Sep 14 19:45:30 ah tht Sep 14 19:45:31 ok Sep 14 19:45:42 no clue.. i'm wondering where SMS is stored Sep 14 19:45:55 exported my old ones to txt's from symbian Sep 14 19:46:00 nowhere to import em to though Sep 14 19:46:43 sometimes i miss symbian:) Sep 14 19:47:28 notably the sip client :P Sep 14 19:47:48 FrieT: dont get me started on sip :( Sep 14 19:47:52 hey guys hey did you know that you can create so much heat while fucking that you can literally melt latex rubber? Sep 14 19:48:03 sip SUCKS on N900 Sep 14 19:48:15 trumee: i wouldn't go for sucks.. i'd go for blows. Sep 14 19:48:32 and well.. yeah.. it doesn't support the GSM codec.. which is pretty funny :p Sep 14 19:48:41 it does not?! Sep 14 19:48:46 nop Sep 14 19:48:47 FrieT: Here you go, my favourite bug #10388 Sep 14 19:48:48 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? Sep 14 19:48:53 I think I made gsm calls with it over sip Sep 14 19:49:00 uhm Sep 14 19:49:03 i mean de gsm codec Sep 14 19:49:07 me too Sep 14 19:49:12 well that works on symbian Sep 14 19:49:14 not on maemo Sep 14 19:49:23 g971 works Sep 14 19:49:25 so does ilbc Sep 14 19:49:29 so does xLaw Sep 14 19:49:30 I think it has to do with the sip switch codec preferences Sep 14 19:49:30 works on the n800 Sep 14 19:49:31 It is choppy for me on any codec, i have tried with g729/ilbc/pcmu Sep 14 19:49:38 well Sep 14 19:49:48 it's least choppy with pcmu Sep 14 19:49:48 * satmd puts testing on his todo list Sep 14 19:49:51 less cpu usage Sep 14 19:49:54 it's a cpu related issue Sep 14 19:49:56 i wonder why the sip client sucks on a cellphone Sep 14 19:49:56 i can't imagine Sep 14 19:50:07 hm, update to sygic Sep 14 19:50:11 * ShadowJK considers install MM10 Sep 14 19:50:27 because they didn't develop the audio part of maemo properly genewitch Sep 14 19:50:30 It is a jitter buffer issue in gstreamer which causes sip to suck on N900 Sep 14 19:50:38 mine uses maemo too Sep 14 19:50:39 http://www.adobe.com/support/security/advisories/apsa10-03.html <<< September 13: Security Alert >>> A critical vulnerability exists in Adobe Flash Player 10.1.82.76 and earlier versions for Windows, Macintosh, Linux, Solaris, and Adobe Flash Player 10.1.92.10 for Android. This vulnerability also affects Adobe Reader 9.3.4 for Windows, Macintosh and UNIX, and Adobe Acrobat 9.3.4 and earlier versions for Windows and Macintosh. Sep 14 19:50:47 ^^ does that affect N900 flash ? Sep 14 19:50:49 we already know and do not care Sep 14 19:50:56 and yes it probably does Sep 14 19:51:02 do not use flash if you care about security Sep 14 19:51:17 apt-get remove adobe* && done:) Sep 14 19:51:18 :p Sep 14 19:51:54 FrieT, genewitch: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=792298&postcount=21 Sep 14 19:52:36 uh Sep 14 19:52:39 Trewas Sep 14 19:52:40 trumee Sep 14 19:52:48 unless they throw out their current audio subsystem Sep 14 19:52:51 this is never going to be fixed Sep 14 19:53:03 FrieT: sip jitter is broken on N900 Sep 14 19:53:17 my e61 could do this flawlessly without overheating like an oven Sep 14 19:53:19 n900 can't Sep 14 19:53:37 because of codec cpu load and PussAudio Sep 14 19:53:41 FrieT: same here N95 rocks here but N900 doesnt work Sep 14 19:54:01 well; Symbian is a mature thing. It's not running on over-powered phones eiter. Sep 14 19:54:22 this is the downside of having lots of cpu cycles: you get away with cutting corners Sep 14 19:54:38 I dont mind cpu load as long as the voice quality is ok. But with the current firmware i get choppyness in about 10 minutes into the call Sep 14 19:54:57 lol i get choppiness from start to finish Sep 14 19:55:01 whenever cpu hits 100% Sep 14 19:55:37 FrieT: on my device the cpu load doesnt go to 100% it stays about 35% with pcmu but still choppyness happens Sep 14 19:55:46 35%!? Sep 14 19:55:51 did you bypass pulseaudio? Sep 14 19:55:54 yes with pcmu Sep 14 19:56:04 pulseaudio eats 30% on a good day Sep 14 19:56:05 with G729 it is about 55% Sep 14 19:56:09 wtf Sep 14 19:56:17 ok this i need to see Sep 14 19:56:21 * FrieT dives into phone Sep 14 19:57:28 crackle crackle Sep 14 19:57:28 :p Sep 14 19:57:38 7360 1 user S < 12996 5.2 28.6 /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-stream-engine Sep 14 19:57:38 6223 1 pulse R < 4616 1.8 27.0 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority Sep 14 19:57:39 pcmu. Sep 14 19:57:56 is there a way to to send websites links from my phone to PC over bluetooth? Sep 14 19:58:14 that's at 850 mhz btw Sep 14 19:58:53 870 1 pulse S < 4240 1.7 27.2 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority Sep 14 19:58:59 4430 1 user S < 12932 5.2 16.7 /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-stream-engine Sep 14 19:59:01 with ilbc Sep 14 19:59:04 7360 1 user S < 12932 5.2 33.8 /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-stream-engine Sep 14 19:59:04 6223 1 pulse R < 4576 1.8 31.4 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority Sep 14 19:59:08 and stock frequency Sep 14 19:59:09 at 550mhz Sep 14 19:59:15 ok switching to ilbc Sep 14 19:59:20 but ilbc was horrible i recall Sep 14 19:59:22 let's see Sep 14 20:00:16 btw Sep 14 20:00:21 lcuk Sep 14 20:00:22 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8574 Sep 14 20:00:23 Bug 8574: Subfolders of Zimbra IMAP server not appearing/not available Sep 14 20:00:29 -> it was never committed and included to 1.2 Sep 14 20:01:07 ok forget it .. this IS ilbc :) Sep 14 20:01:24 are you testing using silence or smt else? Sep 14 20:02:19 FrieT: oops! that was not ilbc Sep 14 20:02:39 i know i tried em all and settled on something Sep 14 20:02:42 thought it was alaw Sep 14 20:02:44 but seems to be ilbc Sep 14 20:02:50 FrieT, yes it was discussed and was a misfire, you knew this already I believe and were watching the bug as the change occured Sep 14 20:03:00 thanks for noticing, shit happens occasionally. Sep 14 20:03:19 lcuk: well yup, it does, just no clue where to go from here? Sep 14 20:03:54 well I am going to watch a movie, I don't know about you. Sep 14 20:03:57 870 1 pulse R < 4408 1.7 28.8 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority Sep 14 20:04:04 4496 1 user S < 12936 5.2 19.1 /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-stream-engine Sep 14 20:04:07 this is pcma Sep 14 20:04:08 but regarding the bug, the devs have been pinged by the bug state changes Sep 14 20:04:08 i mean as far as that patch goes lcuk.. :)) Sep 14 20:04:31 kay i guess i'll just wait and see what changes happen in that space Sep 14 20:04:32 is there a way to to send websites links from my phone to PC over bluetooth? Sep 14 20:04:35 and so will see what happens Sep 14 20:04:51 6223 1 pulse R < 4464 1.8 40.4 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority Sep 14 20:04:51 7420 1 user S < 12956 5.2 24.7 /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-stream-engine Sep 14 20:04:56 yeah, having a recent ping is good for it though :) shall follow up Sep 14 20:04:59 this is g729 Sep 14 20:05:20 * FrieT rolls his eyes at pulseaudio Sep 14 20:05:38 what are you all talking about, I might helo Sep 14 20:05:42 help Sep 14 20:05:53 just venting at the sip client ;) Sep 14 20:06:04 FrieT, for the record the overclocking is bad Sep 14 20:06:15 ~overclocking Sep 14 20:06:16 "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" Sep 14 20:06:32 lcuk: i know. Sep 14 20:06:43 FrieT: g729 is not usable on N900 Sep 14 20:06:49 since thankfully the bug problem isnt your issue I cant tell you off about it, but I feel like mentioning it anyway :) Sep 14 20:06:50 trumee: obviously :p Sep 14 20:07:13 lcuk: it's even worse: it's undervolted & slightly overclocked. Sep 14 20:07:25 is there a website or forum I can read about? Sep 14 20:07:29 FrieT: for that matter any codec on stock frequency in unusable until Nokia/Collabora devs get their act together Sep 14 20:07:35 about what your talking Sep 14 20:07:45 They need to learn one or two things from symbian. Sep 14 20:07:47 ilbc is usable somehow Sep 14 20:07:50 trumee, wtf? Sep 14 20:08:09 lcuk: SIP is very very cpu intensive, and barely usable in the current state;) Sep 14 20:08:14 lcuk: yup, sip is flawless on N95. Sep 14 20:08:24 SIP? Sep 14 20:08:25 how is that any codec? Sep 14 20:08:28 SIP? Sep 14 20:08:38 where can I read about it from? Sep 14 20:08:41 lcuk: because one codec is more cpu intensive than the other? Sep 14 20:08:57 thousands of hours of videos and music are played daily using rock solid codecs etc Sep 14 20:09:04 lcuk: i tried g729/pcmu/ilbc, all of them have choppiness although varyling levels of cpu loads Sep 14 20:09:13 lcuk: did you ever try making a sip call on an n900? Sep 14 20:09:18 :) Sep 14 20:09:30 SIP? Whats that? Sep 14 20:09:34 6223 1 pulse R < 4540 1.8 42.6 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority Sep 14 20:09:34 7450 1 user S < 13012 5.2 19.0 /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-stream-engine Sep 14 20:09:36 this is what it does Sep 14 20:09:37 dont have reliable internet data connection - i use normal calls Sep 14 20:09:39 where can I read about it? Sep 14 20:09:47 is there some resource friendly mp3 playing alternative than the stock built in media player on the n900 ? Sep 14 20:09:50 lollo, voip-info.org Sep 14 20:09:52 lcuk: then please don't talk down on us when we're bringing up a real issue.. Sep 14 20:10:16 dr34m: mplayer, Mediabox Sep 14 20:10:20 FrieT, the general "any codec is unstable" is patently wrong Sep 14 20:10:31 hmmm unusable i thought he said Sep 14 20:10:45 which is correct Sep 14 20:10:52 the sip implementation is unusable. Sep 14 20:10:58 fair, but point stands Sep 14 20:11:03 lcuk: i get choppiness on most of the codecs i have tried Sep 14 20:11:05 thats closer Sep 14 20:11:18 no it does not lcuk - but the fault is not the codecs. Sep 14 20:11:20 g729/ilbc/pcmu/pcma what else remains? Sep 14 20:11:24 trumee thx ill give it a try the standard player is a bit annoying Sep 14 20:11:30 gsm - but that's not supported. Sep 14 20:11:43 even tho it's the cheapest codec both on cpu and bandwidth alike :p Sep 14 20:11:45 i guess though I am not the person to talk about sip Sep 14 20:11:51 wheres the bug report? Sep 14 20:12:01 nowhere. where do i report "PA is a pig" ? Sep 14 20:12:03 lcuk, bug #10388 Sep 14 20:12:04 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? Sep 14 20:12:09 ta Sep 14 20:12:39 40% cpu load on PA alone for a sip call is put mildly.. insane? Sep 14 20:12:49 lcuk: it has been sitting there, also see this http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=792298&postcount=21 Sep 14 20:13:20 trumee: this cannot "just be fixed" with what i'm seeing here.. hope you got better luck Sep 14 20:13:26 FrieT, i wouldnt know but 40% cpu doesnt sound overly bad if its actually using it? Sep 14 20:13:46 lcuk: 40% cpu for piping audio to /dev/dsp is horrendeous Sep 14 20:14:10 do all the codecs use the dsp? Sep 14 20:14:12 if nokia signs your paychecks i suppose i'd understand.. Sep 14 20:14:22 hmmm..... for some reason i cant use my bt keyboard with the n900 anymore i tried deletimg it and re pairimg it it pairs but wont connect it still works with the 770 Sep 14 20:14:26 lcuk, no. Sep 14 20:14:32 oh the decoding is being done in telepathy-stream Sep 14 20:14:39 that uses another 30-40% Sep 14 20:14:49 FrieT: cant i ise plain alsa or something for sip calls, without pulse-audio Sep 14 20:14:52 FrieT, I am just asking the questions that come into my head Sep 14 20:14:53 *use Sep 14 20:15:02 the same way I and others answered your questions before Sep 14 20:15:17 lcuk: cultural differences.. no offence meant on my part ! Sep 14 20:15:39 i do appreciate the time you took to help me out with all kindsa stuff so far Sep 14 20:15:59 trumee: plain alsa would be nice yes. Sep 14 20:16:02 i know asterisk is ported Sep 14 20:16:10 and i know asterisk can do console (/dev/dsp) device .. Sep 14 20:16:27 FrieT: i have installed it on N900, but never got around to using it via console Sep 14 20:16:48 "console" for asterisk means "local audio device" Sep 14 20:17:00 it'll accept stuff like dial console/extension Sep 14 20:17:25 i tried it with a usb "skype"-style handset a year or 2 ago Sep 14 20:17:44 Nice Sep 14 20:17:52 well it worked.. Sep 14 20:17:54 phone like Sep 14 20:17:58 awesome Sep 14 20:18:02 uh. Sep 14 20:18:03 k. Sep 14 20:18:07 vid calls too? Sep 14 20:18:16 lolloo: yes Sep 14 20:18:18 wow Sep 14 20:18:31 i have tried h.263 and they work on sip Sep 14 20:18:34 I would like to knwo how to do it Sep 14 20:18:46 lolloo: voip-info.org Sep 14 20:19:00 for N900? Sep 14 20:19:28 h.263 most my movies use this codec Sep 14 20:19:36 that's 264 Sep 14 20:19:41 oh right Sep 14 20:19:58 anyhow Sep 14 20:19:59 FrieT: it would be good if you vote for bug 10388 Sep 14 20:19:59 trumee Sep 14 20:20:00 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? Sep 14 20:20:07 ilbc can be used somewhat Sep 14 20:20:23 does fring do same thing? Sep 14 20:20:27 uh Sep 14 20:20:29 fring does not do sip Sep 14 20:20:30 FrieT, have you attempted to follow any of the observations on the thread following the bug? Sep 14 20:20:37 FrieT: it does actually Sep 14 20:20:44 it does voice calls over wlan Sep 14 20:20:48 it does not; they do the sip handling on their end and proxy it to you Sep 14 20:20:56 FrieT: ah. ok Sep 14 20:21:11 wow FrieT Sep 14 20:21:17 FrieT: i dont like my voice traffic tunneling through their proxy Sep 14 20:21:23 me neiter Sep 14 20:21:30 also because my PBX is on the LAN Sep 14 20:21:33 that's kinna Sep 14 20:21:34 sip can be done manuelly? Sep 14 20:21:34 a bummer Sep 14 20:21:35 =D Sep 14 20:21:39 and yes, trumee voting on the bug, and adding any additional info as presented on the bug is useful Sep 14 20:21:43 i have a shiny asterisk and freesiwtch servers here unusable on N900 Sep 14 20:21:58 yup.. Sep 14 20:22:06 MNZ: any chance you get the dsp to do echo cancellation? Sep 14 20:22:24 so when I setup SIP, I can call anyone? Sep 14 20:22:31 lolloo: no. Sep 14 20:22:38 oh Sep 14 20:22:39 lcuk: i have been on email with Mikhail regarding the bug but after the initial email excahnge my emails have been ignored Sep 14 20:22:43 what then? Sep 14 20:22:56 lcuk: it seems Nokia devs are not interested in fixing this bug Sep 14 20:23:15 Nokia are greedy Sep 14 20:23:55 trumee: seems to me you're looking at a combination of issues Sep 14 20:24:03 more of an architectural issue Sep 14 20:24:09 rather than just "sip client problem" Sep 14 20:24:42 obviously there's no reason this should not work flawlessly on a 600mhz ARM chip. Sep 14 20:24:42 FrieT: it is a jitter issue in gstreamer rtp afaik Sep 14 20:25:08 trumee: there's more to it - no attempt at echo cancellation, no gsm codec, no call forwarding, yada yada yada Sep 14 20:25:37 check the sip client in your n97 (or my 234 years old e61), you'll see what i mean Sep 14 20:25:45 FrieT: no voicemail notification as well Sep 14 20:25:47 hi, Sep 14 20:25:59 yup Sep 14 20:26:01 hence Sep 14 20:26:07 n900 is not "a phone" really Sep 14 20:26:08 boot/zImage-2.6.28-20101501+0m5.fiasco is in a zImage format? Sep 14 20:26:13 or is it in fiasco format? Sep 14 20:26:26 FrieT: android apparently has good sip client Sep 14 20:26:34 sipdroid i think it is called Sep 14 20:26:40 no clue. Sep 14 20:26:48 yes I tired sipdroid, it need special setup for asterisk Sep 14 20:26:55 it even has voicemail MWI support. something which Nokia devices never had Sep 14 20:27:18 there's one other option Sep 14 20:27:20 does a fiasco image contain low level stuff like xload? Sep 14 20:27:22 a skype to sip bridge!:p Sep 14 20:27:28 skype client is decent! Sep 14 20:27:31 GNUtoo|laptop: i dont have personal experience, only heard other people talk about it. Sep 14 20:27:46 ok Sep 14 20:28:08 about sip, I should compile a decent sip client Sep 14 20:28:08 FrieT: i did have a skype to sip here before. maybe need to investigate it Sep 14 20:28:11 ekiga failed Sep 14 20:28:25 trumee: na, those things are horrible Sep 14 20:28:28 not for maemo but for SHR Sep 14 20:28:46 so...does someone knows for boot/zImage-2.6.28-20101501+0m5.fiasco ? Sep 14 20:28:51 maybe DocScrutinizer ? Sep 14 20:28:59 GNUtoo|laptop: decent client i ever had was twinkle, but it is only on qt3 Sep 14 20:29:15 trumee, then compile it? Sep 14 20:29:28 trumee, FrieT Sep 14 20:29:30 Comment #9 from Jehan (reporter) 2010-06-15 18:31:12 GMT+3 [reply] Sep 14 20:29:30 For me the problem does not seem to persist if power saving is disabled for the Sep 14 20:29:30 WLAN connection on the N900. Sep 14 20:29:30 or install it via debian chroot Sep 14 20:29:32 GNUtoo|laptop: cant use it on N900 coz it doesnt use Qt4 Sep 14 20:29:39 really? Sep 14 20:29:42 can you both confirm that for you please Sep 14 20:29:45 using stock system Sep 14 20:29:56 ie reflash to proper kernel Sep 14 20:30:05 lcuk, PSM issues? which one? Sep 14 20:30:17 lcuk: i am stock kernel. and disabling PSM doesnt make any difference Sep 14 20:30:26 what's the issue Sep 14 20:30:32 I've an ifconfig wlan0 down issue Sep 14 20:30:35 lcuk: in-fact i tried usb-networking with the same response. Sep 14 20:30:37 with the stock kenrel sources Sep 14 20:30:45 but different defconfig Sep 14 20:30:59 and 1 patch Sep 14 20:31:01 trumee, Sep 14 20:31:12 could you please switch it and try now for me tho Sep 14 20:31:23 lcuk: try what? Sep 14 20:31:34 disable psm Sep 14 20:31:38 lcuk: disable PSM and make a phone call? Sep 14 20:31:39 and tell me if it effects you Sep 14 20:31:58 yes, its one of the things, you have my attention, lets go through the motions Sep 14 20:32:03 I'm afraid of bricking the device Sep 14 20:32:12 I don't know if I should flash that: Sep 14 20:32:15 boot/zImage-2.6.28-20101501+0m5.fiasco Sep 14 20:32:19 lcuk: ok. let me do this. although i have done this many times before Sep 14 20:32:37 how would I setup a sip system at my house? Sep 14 20:32:53 asterisk@home/freepbx? Sep 14 20:33:05 IDK, i use my phone to make calls Sep 14 20:33:09 i am not a server admin Sep 14 20:33:26 you guys are the specialists and should know how to do all this stuff Sep 14 20:33:31 is it easy to do? Sep 14 20:33:36 why use a unix workstation to do your calls with? *ducks* :> Sep 14 20:33:51 well asterisk@home/freepbx / whatever it's called now Sep 14 20:33:53 you guys are hte ones wanting to do that Sep 14 20:33:53 is an appliance style thing Sep 14 20:33:56 has a webinterface Sep 14 20:33:57 and shouting loudly when it doesnt Sep 14 20:33:59 so.. Sep 14 20:34:18 lcuk, it's not easy but there is a creative common book on asterisk Sep 14 20:34:25 FrieT: ok, here you go. disables PSM, voice audio is lost every few seconds Sep 14 20:34:26 so its not the sort of problem a normal user will have encountered? Sep 14 20:35:01 lcuk: it's a problem business users will encounter imo Sep 14 20:35:18 lcuk: choppiness kicked in at 1:16 minute Sep 14 20:35:23 ok Sep 14 20:35:32 but for the first 1:15 it was ok? Sep 14 20:35:47 lcuk: if i do Hold call >Activate call choppiness goes away Sep 14 20:36:02 lcuk: the audio was lost for a few seconds before that Sep 14 20:36:03 ok trumee just - it was ok for first minute? Sep 14 20:36:16 lcuk: no. audio was lost Sep 14 20:36:36 amazing if you have it last that long.. here it starts out by being choppy .. :) Sep 14 20:36:38 so why was choppiness kicked in at 1:16 ? Sep 14 20:36:43 then improves a bit:p Sep 14 20:36:49 lcuk: 2:47 seconds, audio is completely gone now Sep 14 20:36:55 ok trumee Sep 14 20:37:00 if you hang up and make a new call Sep 14 20:37:02 Hold call and Activate call, brings it back Sep 14 20:37:04 does it do same Sep 14 20:37:08 or choppy from start? Sep 14 20:37:13 let me try Sep 14 20:37:48 choppy at 00:18 seconds Sep 14 20:38:06 audio lost at 00:38 seconds Sep 14 20:38:14 lcuk: so there you have it. Sep 14 20:38:41 ok trumee Sep 14 20:38:50 try rebooting and tell me time to choppy please Sep 14 20:38:52 i can't reproduce that behaviour.. Sep 14 20:38:56 just for shits n giggles Sep 14 20:39:02 lcuk: i have an auot-pickup audiobook running here. so if you want to try calling it via sip, let me know Sep 14 20:39:20 lcuk: ok, bear with me. rebooting N900 Sep 14 20:39:23 k Sep 14 20:39:31 anyhow.. i 'll try asterisk one of these days on the n900 Sep 14 20:39:54 lcuk: is there an easy way to bypass pulseaudio ? Sep 14 20:40:14 FrieT: it would be interesing if there is a gui for *, it is lame to use cli to make calls. Sep 14 20:40:21 idk but PA is tied to the system at many points, talk to MNZ Sep 14 20:40:35 k Sep 14 20:40:40 trumee: yeah would be interesting Sep 14 20:41:11 who's talking about PA! show yer self! Sep 14 20:41:20 i cursed it a few minutes ago Sep 14 20:41:27 for eating 40% cpu during sip calls:P Sep 14 20:41:42 bypassing pulseaudio tends to break speakers Sep 14 20:41:48 i do not care Sep 14 20:41:53 please do not worry about my speakers Sep 14 20:41:55 :p Sep 14 20:42:09 then kill it and use the alsa device. Sep 14 20:42:13 javispedro, that is being taken care of by yours truly Sep 14 20:42:21 :> Sep 14 20:42:29 but it's not just the lame highpass filter that PA is doing Sep 14 20:42:50 MNZ: please tell me the dsp can do echo cancellation! ;p Sep 14 20:43:06 FrieT, it can do anything. You just need to write the code for it :D Sep 14 20:43:11 neat Sep 14 20:44:05 lcuk: choppiness kicks in at 1:40 after reboot Sep 14 20:44:43 Hold Call >Activate Call makes it work again. Sep 14 20:45:12 is that the same for an inbound call by chance? Sep 14 20:45:24 lcuk: yes it is the same Sep 14 20:45:32 ok Sep 14 20:45:43 lcuk: but the audio is clear for the remote party. Sep 14 20:45:59 throughout all these tests its been clear? Sep 14 20:46:04 yes Sep 14 20:46:13 remote party can hear absolutely fine. Sep 14 20:46:40 although, as soon as choppiness kicks in i do hold/activate. Sep 14 20:47:07 who else uses sip that you know of? Sep 14 20:47:11 it is embarrassing because remote party gets to listen my hold music and we loose the conversation Sep 14 20:47:31 lcuk: what do you mean? Sep 14 20:47:32 yo http://cgi.ebay.com/2X-BATTERY-CHARGER-NOKIA-N900-5800-X6-5230-Nuron-/400153959310?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item5d2b08db8e can one of you confirm that this is safe? Sep 14 20:47:48 trumee, well who else uses sip from their n900? Sep 14 20:47:57 lcuk: all the people voting on bug 10388 Sep 14 20:47:58 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? Sep 14 20:48:02 no Sep 14 20:48:16 those are the 9 people out of however many thousands that it might work properly for Sep 14 20:48:25 i don't even know what sip is? I'm sipping this tea though. I don't see how my N900 is involved. Sep 14 20:48:47 lcuk: plus the thread on tmo http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=792298 Sep 14 20:48:56 lcuk: but i dont think many people use sip on N900 Sep 14 20:48:57 hi, on N900 i am missing the setting for internet-connection non-WLAN Sep 14 20:49:27 lcuk, i use sip, why? Sep 14 20:49:55 madtop, does it work happily for you? Sep 14 20:50:05 works pretty well even over 3g Sep 14 20:50:08 read last bits of scrollback, do those things happen Sep 14 20:50:25 but has some random problems, which I'm not sure are the fault of my sip provider or bandwidth or whatever Sep 14 20:50:34 i just joined the channel Sep 14 20:50:40 ok madtop Sep 14 20:50:58 sometimes it seems like certain people i call have problems hearing me, or that it will cut out Sep 14 20:51:00 lcuk: dont think there are many people who run their own pbx server Sep 14 20:51:03 immediately after reboot, one user experiences bad choppyness/cutting out on his system after ~1:15 Sep 14 20:51:19 trumee, do you want to try connecting to a public service provider? Sep 14 20:51:21 lcuk: 3g is another ball game Sep 14 20:51:21 hmmmm, ive not paid attention to reboot and times Sep 14 20:51:26 and seeing if its your server config then Sep 14 20:51:53 madtop, the reboot isnt important, its basically every call is unusable after a minute on his system Sep 14 20:51:56 lcuk: no its not my server config. i have tried default install of two pbxes, asterisk and freeswitch Sep 14 20:52:09 plus my N95 and hardware sip ata work fine Sep 14 20:52:12 i use voip.ms...the problems ive had are as follows: when phone ideals for a while, i have to disable and re-enable the sip thing in order for it to connect Sep 14 20:52:24 on both these pbx servers. Sep 14 20:52:31 but voice quality is ok madtop ? Sep 14 20:52:56 madtop: that might be just the sip client losing registration Sep 14 20:52:58 madtop: that might be keepalive issues Sep 14 20:53:04 FrieT: +1 Sep 14 20:53:14 set it explicitly instead of relying on "auto" Sep 14 20:53:15 trumee, what I am suggesting is trying a server you havent configured Sep 14 20:53:32 also, the sip interface is highlighted in a way so that you cant see which connection you're clicking on when selecting your server/account before the class Sep 14 20:53:35 call* Sep 14 20:53:38 it *would* determine if its a config issue server side, that granted the n95 might handle differently Sep 14 20:53:42 or if its your server Sep 14 20:53:50 there are plenty of little bugs and things to improve with maemo/sip Sep 14 20:53:56 lcuk: it most definitely is not his server config Sep 14 20:54:06 definately* Sep 14 20:54:21 yes there are little things to improve Sep 14 20:54:24 lcuk: as i said i have tried with both freeswitch and asterisk. it is not a pbx issue. Sep 14 20:54:28 but a good start would be making it usable;D Sep 14 20:54:36 sorry about earlier, for some reason whenever i wake my computer up it defaults to this channel Sep 14 20:54:36 but i havent had unusability after a certain amount of time...... ive had sip just cut out (they can hear me i cant hear them) after a seemingl consistent amount of time for a while, but it hasnt happened for a bit Sep 14 20:54:41 i do have a question though Sep 14 20:54:46 trumee, i dont know how this all works, you have seen, I am a novice at this Sep 14 20:54:59 but when some people experience no call quality issues and you do Sep 14 20:55:06 lcuk: name one..? Sep 14 20:55:07 it makes sense to look Sep 14 20:55:15 have they tried it on good wifi? Sep 14 20:55:17 I have maemo installed to my internal SD card, and for some reason the desktop and user interface is all... weird, like the onscreen keyboard won't come up, everything is grey, none of the buttons look right Sep 14 20:55:21 FrieT, name one what? Sep 14 20:55:28 it just started doing this a couple of days ago Sep 14 20:55:28 i'd be happy to talk to someone who has a SIP client running on the n900 and does not have any call issues Sep 14 20:55:34 that way i could learn from that person Sep 14 20:56:01 FrieT: luke-jr doesnt have anyy issues apparenlty, he runs asterisk as well Sep 14 20:56:03 but up till i talk to someone like that, i'm sure it's not me. works with way too many devices to just go "barf" on n900 Sep 14 20:56:16 luke-jr, you around? Sep 14 20:56:47 "does not have any issues" can mean "i tried and it works" Sep 14 20:56:47 trumee, madtop just said his calls dont have same problem - and the other things are peripheral registration things as you just highlighted yourself Sep 14 20:57:09 lcuk: that only happens when there are no commands executed within a timewindow though Sep 14 20:57:16 never during a call Sep 14 20:57:23 sure Sep 14 20:57:33 trumee is having call time issues Sep 14 20:57:39 not really Sep 14 20:57:42 reproducably so Sep 14 20:57:43 why is the n900 sip client so much different from the n800 sip client? Sep 14 20:57:56 he's having what he thinks are sip issues Sep 14 20:57:58 FrieT, well every call he just made did the same thing Sep 14 20:58:04 but if reconnecting his sip client Sep 14 20:58:07 does not make it work again Sep 14 20:58:07 lcuk: i am happy set up extensions on my pbx for people to test if they want Sep 14 20:58:09 it's an audio thing Sep 14 20:58:23 it might just as well be PitA Sep 14 20:58:32 trumee, it would be easier for you (who knows about sip) to connect to some other known working server Sep 14 20:58:42 good point Sep 14 20:58:47 my sip server works Sep 14 20:59:01 when is there another update for stuff like sip, contacts, and the core apps? Sep 14 20:59:01 "works" does not mean "is usable for acceptable conversations" ;) Sep 14 20:59:03 lcuk: yes i dont think it is a sip issue, rather it is an audio issue as highlited by Nokia and Collabora devs. Sep 14 20:59:09 there are so many easy things to fix Sep 14 20:59:37 anyhow.. i'm not complaining per se. i have my ATA's and SIp phones.. Sep 14 20:59:39 trumee, but people with same software connect to different servers Sep 14 20:59:43 and dont experience this problem Sep 14 20:59:51 lcuk: they do, or they just "tried for kicks" Sep 14 21:00:02 there's no way this doesn't happen to everyone.. Sep 14 21:00:05 genewitch, do you use sip from your n900? Sep 14 21:00:31 (i saw your real reason for being here and will come back ot in in a minute Sep 14 21:00:32 no, sorry, i was only talking about my sip service. i have an n800. Sep 14 21:00:33 i have audio hickups all the time. Sep 14 21:01:03 ok how about this trivia: Sep 14 21:01:06 FrieT, you and trumee do seem to have issues yes Sep 14 21:01:08 i can make an acceptable sip call Sep 14 21:01:13 when clocked at 850meg Sep 14 21:01:25 genewitch, your gtk themes could have gotten corrupted? Sep 14 21:01:43 lcuk: Any way to fix that without a wipe? Sep 14 21:01:44 can you still boot from rootfs and see whether the folders are all fine and stuff? Sep 14 21:02:00 so as much as i dread the thought of making someone try this: trumee: tried running at a higher clockspeed ? Sep 14 21:02:15 FrieT: no not interested in OC Sep 14 21:02:15 FrieT, i can fry an egg acceptably on my n900 at 850mhz Sep 14 21:02:19 lcuk: i will try that Sep 14 21:02:20 that doesnt mean its the right fix Sep 14 21:02:28 i'm not saying it's a fix Sep 14 21:02:40 i'm saying it's an indication it's not a "bug" but just horribly inefficient code Sep 14 21:02:56 and since greatest majority of users do not overclock and works for them.. Sep 14 21:03:03 it does not work for them lcuk Sep 14 21:03:10 FrieT: +1 Sep 14 21:03:19 drop that assumption please.. most users don't know Sip.. Sep 14 21:03:26 lcuk: this is an incorrect reasoning. Sep 14 21:03:32 FrieT: ++1 Sep 14 21:03:44 im not doing it for karma trumee:p Sep 14 21:03:50 ok :) Sep 14 21:03:54 i'm just thinking out loud Sep 14 21:04:11 it doesn't bug me, but it'd be nice to see the overhead gone so sip will work at sane clockspeeds Sep 14 21:04:17 yes, as i said before i dont think there are many sip users around Sep 14 21:04:20 like I said, its movie night Sep 14 21:04:23 lcuk: on the note of overclocking: my phone boots up at 550mhz ;) Sep 14 21:04:55 what did nokia care say when you contacted them? Sep 14 21:05:00 FrieT: well it does bug me a lot. this is my primary phone when i am on and about, and i make more sip calls then i do mobile calls Sep 14 21:05:07 nokia care say regarding what? Sep 14 21:05:15 your problem Sep 14 21:05:20 ..? Sep 14 21:05:32 lcuk: is nokia care >> maemo bugzilla? Sep 14 21:05:33 isn't "nokia care" an oxymoron ? Sep 14 21:05:39 no Sep 14 21:05:48 lcuk: how do i check the filesystem on maemo? Sep 14 21:05:51 nokia care is the official support mechanism for your n900 Sep 14 21:06:22 yup as far as whining goes Sep 14 21:06:23 good idea Sep 14 21:06:30 one day i'll make a sip call and call em Sep 14 21:06:30 :P Sep 14 21:06:39 go for it, please. Sep 14 21:06:45 "can't hear you" Sep 14 21:06:49 "wait lemme redial with my samsung" Sep 14 21:06:49 -g- Sep 14 21:07:06 mind you i'm a happy n900 camper Sep 14 21:07:13 didn't buy this phone expecting a polished device Sep 14 21:07:14 FrieT: it would be good idea to vote on bug 10388 as a first step Sep 14 21:07:15 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? Sep 14 21:07:17 it's a hacker's toy tbh Sep 14 21:07:54 indeed, and you have hacked it greatly Sep 14 21:08:12 FrieT: i was expecting a solid sip support. wouldnt have bought it if i knew this was coming Sep 14 21:08:14 trumee, for sanity sake, please try connecting to an official sip provider and just confirm it Sep 14 21:08:31 lcuk: ok. will try that. Sep 14 21:09:24 and I do hope you find a setup that works happily for you :) Sep 14 21:09:59 trumee: well it'd be fair to blame nokia though Sep 14 21:10:00 lcuk: thanks. but an official sip provider doesnt work for me since all my family use my pbx server Sep 14 21:10:12 they did market the thing as a phone, after all Sep 14 21:10:13 how do i force fsck to unmount? Sep 14 21:10:30 trumee, try it - then if it works/doesn't work you can take a step forward Sep 14 21:10:42 genewitch, you umount yourself beforehand Sep 14 21:10:46 ok this bug is bookmarked next to the imap client bug:d Sep 14 21:10:47 lcuk: yup. will try it tomorrow. Sep 14 21:10:48 :) Sep 14 21:10:56 >>> movie Sep 14 21:10:57 * FrieT praises lcuk for keeping his cool :) Sep 14 21:11:05 thanks for putting up with us dude Sep 14 21:11:07 enjoy the movie! Sep 14 21:11:16 it says it is busy Sep 14 21:11:19 gn all Sep 14 21:12:08 cannot umount /media/mmc2: busy Sep 14 21:12:20 mind you i am typing umount /dev/mmcblk0p1 Sep 14 21:12:28 oh Sep 14 21:12:29 duh Sep 14 21:12:52 no, same thing Sep 14 21:18:27 mmm Sep 14 21:19:03 i'll do sandbox later, not this prefab image. worthless. worthless me , anyway;) Sep 14 21:19:44 scratchbox Sep 14 21:19:44 even Sep 14 21:20:25 hm, would be cool to have fremantle installed native, for sake of it. :P Sep 14 21:20:34 (in the computer i meant) Sep 14 21:21:01 duno:p Sep 14 21:21:31 i really need to stop letting other people touch my n800, the filesystem was trashed Sep 14 21:22:13 nokia tables devices are very personal devices.. Sep 14 21:23:33 wow, everything is gone Sep 14 21:23:52 i think a majority of my /usr directory is gone Sep 14 21:24:23 wtf Sep 14 21:24:28 how did that happen :-) Sep 14 21:24:33 or did you have clone to mmc or something Sep 14 21:24:48 ShadowJK: someone popped the back cover off while in use Sep 14 21:24:49 i think Sep 14 21:25:09 yeah i boot from internal mmc Sep 14 21:25:19 i just have to redo it Sep 14 21:25:31 ah Sep 14 21:26:43 It's really not that good of a solution, really, all i really wanted was to be able to move the default program storage area to the mmc so i could install more stuff. Sep 14 21:27:00 booting from mmc makes the n800 pretty slow at everything. Sep 14 21:28:10 FrieT, should I just pull the headphones and test for myself? :D I'm dying here Sep 14 21:28:49 http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/14/nokia-hires-peter-skillman-former-palm-design-vp-as-meego-user/ Sep 14 21:36:58 FrieT: since that time, T-Mobile seems to be screwing around with port 5060 Sep 14 21:42:51 lol at 15 moderator points... again Sep 14 21:43:01 (on /.) Sep 14 21:45:38 PS. I just tried mplayer -> alsa, no PA, with the hardware filter. Nothing fried and/or exploded Sep 14 21:45:44 FrieT, ^^ Sep 14 21:46:00 yeey!! Sep 14 21:46:01 :) Sep 14 21:46:29 ok.. i'm off to bed:p Sep 14 21:47:46 congrats MNZ!!! Sep 14 21:48:14 thanks :) Sep 14 21:48:41 you're the second guy i know in the community who got dsp doing something useful Sep 14 21:49:05 major win Sep 14 21:49:12 not dsp! audio codec Sep 14 21:49:21 different things :D Sep 14 21:49:56 hey, can one of you verify the safety of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/2X-BATTERY-CHARGER-NOKIA-N900-5800-X6-5230-Nuron-/400153959310?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item5d2b08db8e Sep 14 21:50:21 it's ebay Sep 14 21:50:28 when it explodes you get to keep all the pieces Sep 14 21:50:41 no, I mean, if it is what it says it is, it is up to par with n900 actual battery Sep 14 21:52:06 Typically they're about 1000mAh or so.. Sep 14 21:52:09 I just don't wanna hurt my baby Sep 14 21:52:15 maybe 1200 if you're lucky :-) Sep 14 21:52:33 it says 1350 mAh Sep 14 21:52:54 I can print a label that says "Over 9000 mAh" Sep 14 21:53:22 so long as it won't hurt my baby Sep 14 21:56:02 so, you think it is safe, ShadowJK - that's what you're saying? Sep 14 21:56:47 I don't think I'd use it myself Sep 14 21:57:20 what would you do if you wanted a charger and an extra battery? Sep 14 21:57:38 I'd use it! for fireworks! Sep 14 21:58:57 lol, guys, I'm serious Sep 14 21:59:27 internetishard: meh, buy it Sep 14 21:59:31 are all of the 100s of cheap batteries on ebay really able to hurt the n900 (even though they're marked for it) Sep 14 21:59:39 worst that can happen, it swells and you throw it away Sep 14 21:59:56 or it blows up in your face before you notice Sep 14 22:00:07 CreamyG: yeah, right Sep 14 22:00:19 if batteries have that kind of energy, why can't i use 3g for more than 8 hours :( Sep 14 22:00:42 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=745462&postcount=100 Sep 14 22:00:43 li-ion is very dangerous Sep 14 22:01:16 kerio, well there's a difference between releasing that energy in 30,000 seconds compared to 0.1 second :) Sep 14 22:01:24 it didn't hurt his n900, though Sep 14 22:01:31 it hurt his wallet :< Sep 14 22:02:20 moin Sep 14 22:02:30 okay, so the concensus is that it wont hurt the n900 Sep 14 22:02:37 http://cgi.ebay.com/2X-BATTERY-CHARGER-NOKIA-N900-5800-X6-5230-Nuron-/400153959310?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item5d2b08db8e this thta is Sep 14 22:02:58 Take note of the original shape and form when it arrives Sep 14 22:03:04 internetishard: i have the same charger Sep 14 22:03:09 If it ever looks bigger than when it arrived, or swells, immediately stop using it Sep 14 22:03:28 the led didn't work, so i just leave the battery in for 12+ hours Sep 14 22:04:02 oh, and the plug broke so i had to open it and connect it manually to another plug Sep 14 22:04:10 you got it on ebay? Sep 14 22:04:15 you get another battery too? Sep 14 22:04:19 yup Sep 14 22:04:28 the looks of the battery is the same Sep 14 22:04:30 same charger, too Sep 14 22:07:07 lol also buy house insurance Sep 14 22:07:15 for when it catches fire when the charging doesn't stop Sep 14 22:08:22 CreamyG: *meh* Sep 14 22:08:44 CreamyG: is it just me or have your only contributions been about things exploding and pessimistic shit? Sep 14 22:09:19 CreamyG: wait, the house will catch fire? Sep 14 22:09:25 how? Sep 14 22:09:27 :O Sep 14 22:09:50 concrete doesn't burn... Sep 14 22:09:55 "Experts call for protecting sites in Asia to ensure the survival of the tiger." <-- Felines need SSL now? Sep 14 22:10:28 like so: charge -> boom -> hit curtain -> fire -> reach garage -> catch on to car -> bigger boom -> neighbour's dog catches fire -> runs into bushes -> neighbour's house and garden catch fire Sep 14 22:10:42 BOOM -> neighbours garage -> yous see where this is going Sep 14 22:10:52 I guess you could use a liposack Sep 14 22:11:31 MNZ: that actually made me lol Sep 14 22:12:22 haha seriously man it's pretty unlikely but i've seen product reviews on dealextreme for their chinese battery chargers... not all positive Sep 14 22:12:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3o_2mwRPdw <- liposack Sep 14 22:12:26 cars don't explode when they catch fire, do they? Sep 14 22:12:41 (first half of video is without liposack) Sep 14 22:12:42 crashanddie: in CreamyG's world, they do Sep 14 22:12:44 usually not Sep 14 22:12:53 I believe they do, once it gets to the petrol! Sep 14 22:13:01 MNZ: no, that's just a bigger fire Sep 14 22:13:05 (or at least that's what the movies lead me to believe) Sep 14 22:13:06 MNZ: not an explosion Sep 14 22:13:50 ok so bigger fire, STILL neighbour's dog will catch fire. Sep 14 22:13:58 poor doggy Sep 14 22:13:59 :( Sep 14 22:14:17 * kerio trashes his external charger Sep 14 22:14:31 kerio, only sensible thing to do really Sep 14 22:14:40 make sure you have meteorite insurance too ;P Sep 14 22:14:41 that reminds me, i really need to get my usb port fixed Sep 14 22:15:04 invest in liposack.com Sep 14 22:15:23 javispedro: huh? Sep 14 22:15:24 what's that Sep 14 22:15:27 MNZ: I've seen this scene in flodder family movie :-P Sep 14 22:15:42 http://www.liposack.com/ safe paranoid charging! Sep 14 22:16:21 liposack - ROTFL what a name Sep 14 22:16:31 DocScrutinizer: better than fapman Sep 14 22:16:32 or fapn Sep 14 22:16:36 (see above linked youtube for more slashvertisement) Sep 14 22:20:16 internetishard: buy a MUGEN Sep 14 22:21:29 mugen? Sep 14 22:21:42 kerio, never heard Sep 14 22:21:59 internetishard: http://www.mugenpowerbatteries.info/epages/es109514.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es109514_es120302495377/Products/HLI-N900XL Sep 14 22:22:12 2400mAh Sep 14 22:22:41 100$ lol Sep 14 22:22:58 that is just as good as two of the cheap ones switched out Sep 14 22:23:07 without the switching Sep 14 22:23:15 makes the n900 bigger too Sep 14 22:23:19 and probably heavier Sep 14 22:23:31 yeah but 2400 Sep 14 22:23:34 well I don't have 100$ Sep 14 22:23:39 well then you're poor Sep 14 22:23:45 I'm a student Sep 14 22:24:10 so? Sep 14 22:24:13 don't buy a n900 Sep 14 22:24:18 STUDY Sep 14 22:24:39 i have one Sep 14 22:24:42 lol Sep 14 22:25:34 why did you buy one Sep 14 22:25:39 buy the battery first Sep 14 22:26:46 funny guy Sep 14 22:27:10 but I hope you weren't joking about this battery being safe because I'm about to buy it Sep 14 22:27:28 is there a plan for a PR1.3 release? if yes, what would it include? any wish lists available? Sep 14 22:27:29 LIVE on-air: Stephan Kinsella on Intellectual Property law: http://lrn.fm:8100/ Sep 14 22:28:18 I hope they update the core software: contacts, groups, sip, calendar, etc Sep 14 22:28:19 internetishard: it will probably not damage your n900 Sep 14 22:28:39 internetishard: don't take anything you hear on the internet for granted Sep 14 22:28:45 internetishard: we could all be wrong Sep 14 22:29:11 internetishard: and yes, as soon as you receive it, a meteor hits your house, attracted by the unstable particles contained in the battery Sep 14 22:29:22 just use common sense Sep 14 22:29:40 if it's less than $20, who gives a flying toss about the quality, you know you only get what you pay for, right? Sep 14 22:30:52 ah, and overclocking your n900 will attract the meteor to your girlfriend instead Sep 14 22:30:55 yes, that's fine, it is only a backup for the main battery, but I don't think it should be hard to figure out if it is able to damage the n900 Sep 14 22:31:02 hahah Sep 14 22:31:08 ;P Sep 14 22:32:07 internetishard: of course it can damage your n900 Sep 14 22:32:13 it could be a tiny nuke pretending to be a bl-5j Sep 14 22:32:27 yes, but you said it probably won't - by what logic? Sep 14 22:32:46 WHO CARES? Sep 14 22:32:55 Road Runner wants to blame their DNS hijacking on OS X. Sep 14 22:32:55 Idiots. Sep 14 22:33:07 GAN900: lol Sep 14 22:33:40 Then they wanted to know if I've ever downloaded their browser toolbar . . . which only works on IE on XP. Sep 14 22:34:41 GAN900: why aren't you using a real dns Sep 14 22:36:02 kerio, good question Sep 14 22:36:06 I actually am now Sep 14 22:36:14 level3 or google? Sep 14 22:36:26 Was at some point in the past but forgot to set it up again after a router change Sep 14 22:36:33 Let me say something really quick Sep 14 22:36:37 I hate Comcast. Sep 14 22:36:41 That is all Sep 14 22:37:07 I just feel a need to fight this one out with the ISP because other people in the area are having the same problem. Sep 14 22:37:19 so? Sep 14 22:37:23 tell them to change their dns Sep 14 22:37:47 Principle of the thing Sep 14 22:37:58 principles against a corporation Sep 14 22:38:00 hah, right Sep 14 22:38:15 ISPs shouldn't get away with DNS hijacking services with broken opt-outs. Sep 14 22:38:22 kerio, you'd be surprised. Sep 14 22:38:24 they shouldn't Sep 14 22:38:27 but they will Sep 14 22:38:35 it's long since i stopped caring Sep 14 22:38:37 If you roll over and take it. Sep 14 22:38:44 I'll move my business if I have to. Sep 14 22:42:59 I yelled at my bank today Sep 14 22:43:35 because they charged me €8.90 because my bank manager added a reference to another account on my website portal (so I can send money to the other account) Sep 14 22:43:57 why did I ask the manager to do it? Because I was unable to do it on the website due to "security risks" Sep 14 22:44:03 wow Sep 14 22:44:28 Now, I worked for the banking industry, so I know the "security risks" is just "a bug" Sep 14 22:45:00 but I'm paying good money for their services, and I'm also paying for the ability to manage my target accounts free of charge online Sep 14 22:45:28 I looked up some consumer laws, quoted them, sent an email, and I've been refunded plus 6 months free service :) Sep 14 22:46:01 adding the reference to my account took a couple of days "Regular processing delays" (MY ASS). Getting redunded took less than 30 minutes. Sep 14 22:48:15 I thought complaint-based price segmentation was mostly a US thing Sep 14 22:48:43 well, here to send money somewhere i have to add destination account to my web thingy Sep 14 22:49:07 and to do that i just type number and they call me back on my phone Sep 14 22:49:27 and i have to type number from phone onto website Sep 14 22:49:29 and it's there Sep 14 22:49:37 and from that point i can send money Sep 14 22:49:51 which takes less than 5 minutes Sep 14 22:50:13 sp3000: well, thing is that if you accept prices as they are you are either stupid or in hurry Sep 14 22:50:47 jacekowski: well, that's how it supposed to happen on a good system Sep 14 22:51:03 jacekowski: hsbc, coop, bnp, they all do it Sep 14 22:51:18 it's just this shitty local bank that understands fuck all Sep 14 22:51:52 heck, I designed co-op's EMV and OTP system. Sep 14 22:51:58 is it just me or it isn't possible to install libqt4-gui due to unmet dependencies on ARM? Sep 14 22:52:26 what about OMG and WTF systems? Sep 14 22:53:27 anyway, I'm out Sep 14 22:53:29 'later all. Sep 14 22:58:44 widgetsgallery has been broken for me on maemo for weeks Sep 14 22:58:54 anyone else in the same boat? Sep 14 23:01:34 is it just me or it isn't possible to install libqt4-gui due to unmet dependencies on ARM? Sep 14 23:02:19 apol_, install on what? Sep 14 23:03:01 on stock maemo libqt4-gui should already be installed Sep 14 23:03:02 tripzero: the maemo sdk (scratchbox on arm mode) Sep 14 23:24:07 Hi I found the IRC through the maemo wiki. I'm going into Digital Media at uni and I am wondering if anyone can put me in the right direction for app development? Sep 14 23:32:21 nervewax: meego.org maybe; Maemo is dead Sep 14 23:33:19 nervewax: Qt is the future. Sep 14 23:33:31 nervewax, the nokia qt sdk is where people are recommended to look Sep 14 23:33:32 nervewax: For both meego and maemo. Sep 14 23:33:38 And sybian Sep 14 23:33:44 symbian Sep 14 23:33:47 you can develop a qt app that should work on maemo and follow into meego and symbian and even windows :P Sep 14 23:34:00 SpeedEvil: might be for the sybian too... ;) Sep 14 23:34:13 luke-jr, bsd is dead too, but people still use it Sep 14 23:34:24 asj: I don't think sybian have any platforms that run Qt. Sep 14 23:34:41 sybian platforms are rock solid Sep 14 23:34:44 :D Sep 14 23:34:56 well, theres a bit of movement Sep 14 23:34:57 With very high customer satisfaction rates. Sep 14 23:35:02 aren't the gui classes of qt different for desktop and mobile? Sep 14 23:35:09 TheXception: no. Sep 14 23:35:13 TheXception, they can be Sep 14 23:35:17 heh Sep 14 23:35:21 TheXception: or rather - it's 'just' a recompile. Sep 14 23:35:22 depends on what you want to do Sep 14 23:35:24 Pretty much. Sep 14 23:35:39 a correctly structured application would be built in layers anyway Sep 14 23:36:13 like an onion? Sep 14 23:36:15 * lcuk sleeps Sep 14 23:36:19 yes Sep 14 23:36:22 TheXception: the classes are the same, there are UI issues to consider since phones don't work the same as tghe desktop. But you can use QML/Quick (or how ever it's spelled) and do nice flexible UIs for each platform Sep 14 23:36:31 with or without the stink? Sep 14 23:36:43 ok Sep 14 23:39:08 lcuk: BSD isn't dead Sep 14 23:39:47 dying * Sep 14 23:40:09 naa. just goes by the name of darwin Sep 14 23:40:19 although maemo has innovation and new stuff everyday which pretty much makes all the talk of that wrong Sep 14 23:40:29 lol Sep 14 23:40:34 Maemo has no innovation or anything new Sep 14 23:40:37 since PR 1.2 Sep 14 23:40:42 fcam came out since Sep 14 23:40:49 fcam isn't Maemo-specific Sep 14 23:40:50 dire lack of outlets at technical conferences Sep 14 23:41:02 the facial tracking stuff came out since Sep 14 23:41:08 the what? Sep 14 23:41:19 one thing which confuses me a bit will next maemo-release be qt-based or will meego be next step? Sep 14 23:41:30 TheXception: there is no next Maemo release Sep 14 23:41:36 Also - there was some nutter that did an inverse motion tracking app. Sep 14 23:41:42 we gained graspable full livewp support Sep 14 23:42:03 then i wonder about the appeared 1.3 repo Oo Sep 14 23:42:04 theres a whole new up and coming fapman revolutionising the way people download and install stuff Sep 14 23:42:14 and yeah, we have 1.3 peeking out Sep 14 23:42:28 O.o Sep 14 23:42:48 luke-jr, maemo.org downloads increased from 20 to 30 million in the last month alone Sep 14 23:42:53 TheXception: there might be another PR of the current release, but a PR isn't going to change anything significantly Sep 14 23:43:00 lcuk: relevance? Sep 14 23:43:06 ah ok Sep 14 23:43:20 people are using and creating and working on more maemo software than ever before Sep 14 23:43:30 luke-jr: the base os is in maintenance mode...what are you expecting exactly? Sep 14 23:43:45 asj: *I'm* not expecting anything Sep 14 23:43:57 asj: he asked if the next "release" would be Qt-based or the same as current Sep 14 23:43:57 so the framework to focus application development on is qt, or still on maemo/gtk framework? Sep 14 23:44:07 TheXception: it hasn't been GTK for a long time Sep 14 23:44:21 have a look around http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/ Sep 14 23:44:22 TheXception: even while Maemo5 is GTK-based, the focus was already on Qt Sep 14 23:44:23 TheXception: the future is qt, qt and more qt Sep 14 23:45:01 What's the equivalent of maemo-sdk-debug on the actual device? Sep 14 23:45:32 I'm looking for symbols for ld-linux.so.3. Sep 14 23:46:56 derf ! you found something the packages interface can't even see Sep 14 23:47:02 it normally sees everything Sep 14 23:47:54 I try not to bother you guys with simple problems :). Sep 14 23:48:02 http://repository.maemo.org/ Sep 14 23:48:17 gives you the list of repos available, which package is ld-linux inside? Sep 14 23:48:26 Gekk if I know. Sep 14 23:48:41 dpkg-query -S /lib/ld-linux.so Sep 14 23:49:02 Yeah, was almost there. Sep 14 23:49:02 libc6: /lib/ld-linux.so.3 Sep 14 23:49:31 I'd already tried installing libc6-dbg Sep 14 23:49:33 And got Sep 14 23:49:34 libc6-dbg: Depends: libc6 (= 2.5.1-1eglibc19+0m5) but 2.5.1-1eglibc25+0m5 is to be installed Sep 14 23:49:54 http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=libc6&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same Sep 14 23:50:17 try "apt-get install libc6-dbg=2.5.1-1eglibc19+0m5" Sep 14 23:50:33 MNZ, your dpkg knowledge is awesome :) Sep 14 23:50:46 as is most of your other stuff Sep 14 23:51:00 lcuk, just tons of debian roadblocks and googling ;) Sep 14 23:51:08 sshhh Sep 14 23:51:13 MNZ: You've got that backwards. Sep 14 23:51:23 libc6 is new. libc6-dbg is old. Sep 14 23:51:24 derf, woops Sep 14 23:51:39 derf, try it from the sdk repo Sep 14 23:51:48 What good would that do? Sep 14 23:52:08 none you are right Sep 14 23:52:41 Package manager claims there's an up to date libc6-dbg. Sep 14 23:52:44 although it does have the 19 variant Sep 14 23:52:45 Why can't apt see it? Sep 14 23:53:33 Version table: Sep 14 23:53:33 2.5.1-1eglibc25+0m5 0 Sep 14 23:53:33 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/free Packages Sep 14 23:53:48 that's libc6-dbg Sep 14 23:53:52 get the tools repo Sep 14 23:54:23 I just grabbed the .deb Sep 14 23:54:27 Thanks for your help. Sep 14 23:58:32 Ok so if maemo 5 is dead will this qt sdk be able to run on the N900 still? Sep 14 23:59:09 nervewax, maemo is not really dead dead. Qt will run almost everywhere, so it's your best bet Sep 14 23:59:24 your mom's future is qt Sep 14 23:59:56 heck a few years and Qt will be running on your microwave's LCD. So you better hurry up Sep 14 23:59:56 s/future// Sep 14 23:59:57 tripzero meant: your mom's is qt Sep 15 00:02:24 has n900 full support for vfpv3? Sep 15 00:02:57 if that's Virtual Fighter Planes version 3, then no, not yet. Sep 15 00:03:22 doh! Sep 15 00:03:27 no hardware floating Sep 15 00:03:38 though it CAN control helicopters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEXmb922jtg Sep 15 00:04:03 vfpv3 is an ARM thing no? Sep 15 00:04:15 and i think the omap3 has that? Sep 15 00:05:28 yes point is i tried cross-compiling hedgewars to n900, which needs the fpc-compiler using vfpv3 it ends up with SIGILL Sep 15 00:06:22 MNZ, that's fake Sep 15 00:06:28 i dont' know if i believe that Sep 15 00:06:35 how about porting nogravity to n900 Sep 15 00:06:58 tripzero, most people think it's fake :) I think it is as well Sep 15 00:07:00 n900 already supports nogravity if you throw it high enough Sep 15 00:07:20 it runs the version i compiled for n810 Sep 15 00:07:47 not happy compiled for n900 atm Sep 15 00:08:23 if i use soft-floating it crashes due to a bug in soft-floating emulation Sep 15 00:08:35 hmm Sep 15 00:08:58 hmm Sep 15 00:11:17 i did not found an official fpc package so i hope maybe just some bugs in current svn version of fpc Sep 15 00:11:34 *find Sep 15 00:16:42 hi Sep 15 00:17:03 hola TiagoTiago Sep 15 00:17:33 isn't the N900 supposed to be able to search and connect to other bt dewvices while connected to a bt headset? Sep 15 00:18:39 hi MNZ, the solution that day was simply to uninstall the stufff it was listing as not installed properlly and then reinstall them one by one :) Sep 15 00:19:26 TiagoTiago, I know :) it would just be a hassle as you'd find about them eventually Sep 15 00:20:02 I think i might have messed up somthing with the bt of my N900, it fails to see many bt devices while connected to the headset, and OVI suite isn't finding it :( Sep 15 00:21:05 btw, does it matter that the hostname and bt name start with 3 digits before getting to the first letter? Sep 15 00:24:12 should i uninstall the thing about HFP profile? what about the dun tethering? Sep 15 00:27:29 any idea? Sep 15 00:31:32 wtf?! Sep 15 00:31:51 OVOI suite thinks my N900 is my N73 o.O Sep 15 00:37:37 how do i remove devices from OVI suite? Sep 15 00:38:45 nvm Sep 15 00:41:48 ok, i'll be AFK for bit, bbs Sep 15 00:52:59 back Sep 15 00:53:35 hm, it's not finding it :( Sep 15 00:57:53 SpeedEvil, how accurate would you say are the mah figures of your script? Sep 15 00:58:56 ShadSEC: It depends. Sep 15 00:59:03 ShadSEC: +-20% Sep 15 00:59:10 But consistently off between phones. Sep 15 00:59:21 good enough Sep 15 00:59:36 I need to actually measure the current flow out of the battery, and correlate Sep 15 00:59:54 But I haven't had the energy to set it up. Sep 15 00:59:57 yeah, that would be the real test Sep 15 01:00:22 I'm pondering hard opening up phone to add compass too. Sep 15 01:00:48 how do you plan to do that? Sep 15 01:01:08 iconnecting it to a free gpio or something? Sep 15 01:02:13 http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=LSM303DLHTR-ND Sep 15 01:02:24 Pull the accelerometer Sep 15 01:02:36 Or wire in parallel Sep 15 01:02:58 couldn't you emulate a compass w/ GPS + accelerometers? Sep 15 01:03:22 oh, so this one has accelerometer and compass Sep 15 01:03:51 luke, only if you keep walking Sep 15 01:04:18 luke-jr: no Sep 15 01:04:33 luke-jr: I want to be able to record pointing info from pics Sep 15 01:04:47 ? Sep 15 01:04:48 there is no way to use any of the exisiting radios to get some sort of directional data relative to the device's oritentation, is there? Sep 15 01:05:22 tiago, again, only some estimation of your direction while you are moving Sep 15 01:05:32 SpeedEvil: accelerometers can't detect rotation? Sep 15 01:05:37 luke-jr: no Sep 15 01:05:42 luke-jr: It detects 'down' Sep 15 01:05:43 O.o Sep 15 01:05:55 luke-jr: You can't tell rotation about the down axis. Sep 15 01:06:06 they only detect where is down and translational motion Sep 15 01:06:21 even 2/ 2? Sep 15 01:06:24 w/* Sep 15 01:06:28 yes. Sep 15 01:06:31 you need at least two vectors to get a rotation Sep 15 01:06:36 To quote Blue Peter. Sep 15 01:06:42 Here is an answer I prepared earlier. Sep 15 01:06:57 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals Sep 15 01:07:10 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals#What_two_three_axis_accelerometers_can_do Sep 15 01:07:26 swapping the chips will be a real challenge Sep 15 01:07:42 Probably paralleling it. Sep 15 01:07:48 It can go on any I2C bus. Sep 15 01:08:22 and there is enough space for both? Sep 15 01:08:29 inside Sep 15 01:08:37 it saw it all pretty tight Sep 15 01:08:44 ShadSEC: It's a 5*5*1mm chip Sep 15 01:09:06 mmm Sep 15 01:10:31 it is a grear mod, for sure Sep 15 01:10:46 great Sep 15 01:10:49 would 3 accelerometers beat the limitations of using two? Sep 15 01:11:46 or the precision errors would still get in the way too much? Sep 15 01:12:26 TiagoTiago: no. Sep 15 01:12:38 TiagoTiago: well - in principle - three ideal accels would Sep 15 01:12:46 TiagoTiago: But in practice no. Sep 15 01:12:52 As they are very inaccurate. Sep 15 01:13:04 And there are good gyro chips, as well as compass chips. Sep 15 01:13:49 Consider what 1cm drift on the acellerometer does to a rotation. Sep 15 01:13:50 SpeedEvil, a gyro is a prerequisite for video stabilization isnt it? Sep 15 01:13:50 off for the night. so long folks. Sep 15 01:13:58 ShadSEC: no. Sep 15 01:14:05 it can be done with accels? Sep 15 01:14:16 ShadSEC: you can do that basically using the same techniques as MPEG. Sep 15 01:14:20 btw, instead of hacking the device's hardware directly, how about that idea i posted in TMO, attaching the additional hardware on the battery cover and communicating with the device via the SD slot with a cable that has the tip shaped like a microSD card? Sep 15 01:14:20 motion compensation. Sep 15 01:14:34 i dont mean postprocessing Sep 15 01:14:36 TiagoTiago: yes - I posted that ages ago. Sep 15 01:14:55 ShadSEC: Or during the recording. Sep 15 01:15:07 here? Sep 15 01:15:15 no Sep 15 01:15:19 so then gyros/accels etc wouldnt add better stabilization? Sep 15 01:15:35 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#MMC_card Sep 15 01:15:54 ShadSEC: there is no direct link between the accels and the camera Sep 15 01:16:31 ah Sep 15 01:16:41 ShadSEC: So you'd need to feed in shake compensation into the middle of the video chain. Sep 15 01:16:46 SpeedEvil, I mean something as that the fcamera guys have done Sep 15 01:16:58 i though it would be called SDio instead Sep 15 01:17:01 You can't compensate for shaking. Sep 15 01:17:07 why dont? Sep 15 01:17:15 You can however detect when shaking is happening Sep 15 01:17:45 ShadSEC: because you can't translate between - with the existing accel - acelleration and rotation. Sep 15 01:17:48 if you got enough processing power you could run a deconvolution in the raw frame to fix the motionblur Sep 15 01:17:48 isn't that what shaker filter does? Sep 15 01:17:56 It depends how you're holding the cam. Sep 15 01:18:14 AIUI shaker filter simply avoids taking pictures when it's detecting wobbling. Sep 15 01:18:15 hai Sep 15 01:18:25 :) are DAVE here? Sep 15 01:18:26 mmm, you mean theres no way to tell how the shaking is happening to tell the video processor Sep 15 01:18:28 TiagoTiago: To an extent yes. Sep 15 01:18:30 anyone here has sygic mobile map on their n900? Sep 15 01:18:36 ShadSEC: basically Sep 15 01:18:43 SpeedEvil, yay Sep 15 01:18:45 a pity Sep 15 01:18:47 pitty Sep 15 01:18:50 does you FR still lives? Sep 15 01:18:52 i thought it was possible Sep 15 01:18:52 ShadSEC: i think the codec runs on the DSP - so in principle you could recode it. Sep 15 01:19:08 DocScrutinizer, yarr Sep 15 01:19:39 fredrin: I never had one. neo1973 only. And it's dismantled in preparation for recycling into a web-enabled-microwave-oven. Sep 15 01:19:53 kek Sep 15 01:20:22 if i had to choose between a compass and a gyro, if the compass had a "framerate" at least as good as the gyro, no ghosting/lagging etc, i would go with the compass, it still only provides a direction, but combined with the accells i imagine it would be enough, and as a bonus it would provide absolute values instead of relative Sep 15 01:20:24 SpeedEvil, now thats going into an area I dont know much. But I get the point that it would be useless for deshaking :) Sep 15 01:21:08 TiagoTiago: Accel + gyro gives you an absolute direction. Sep 15 01:21:11 TiagoTiago: err Sep 15 01:21:15 TiagoTiago: Accell + magno Sep 15 01:21:36 TiagoTiago: though you need to play games with filters. Sep 15 01:21:46 that's what i meant by compass, a 3d magnetometer Sep 15 01:21:50 TiagoTiago: And assume that there is no significant long-term accelleration Sep 15 01:22:09 like going up in a rocket or skydiving? Sep 15 01:22:22 yes. Sep 15 01:22:52 oh, damn, going round and round in a car would provide constant acceleration.... Sep 15 01:23:03 would also* Sep 15 01:23:11 TiagoTiago: not quite - unless you also rotate the device Sep 15 01:23:28 But then you can put GPS in. Sep 15 01:23:43 if you're inside the car as it is making donuts you will rotate witih it Sep 15 01:25:10 mmmm donuts Sep 15 01:25:41 TiagoTiago: But you can tell it's rotating, due to the compass. Sep 15 01:25:42 if the N900 was inside one of those gyrostabilized ballcamerass in the nose of a stuntcopter then things would be different Sep 15 01:26:23 signal *angulation would be awesome integrating gps and magno Sep 15 01:27:13 hm, yeah, but would rotation rate + imprecise GPS (itms usually between a few ameters to dozens of meters worong isn't it) be enough to correct for the centrifugue force? Sep 15 01:27:23 also it can take into account the position of the antenna relative to ground and use the little directivity it may have Sep 15 01:27:34 btw, I winder what the radiation patter of the phone is mmmmm Sep 15 01:28:12 TiagoTiago: You feed it all into a kalman filter. Sep 15 01:28:23 TiagoTiago: and out pops a position and orientation. Sep 15 01:28:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalman_filter Sep 15 01:29:00 what's the problem? Trying to get better rotation on the n900? Sep 15 01:29:07 is there a way to trigger that dzt-dzdzdzt interference GSM devices cause in microfones and the like manually with the N900? Sep 15 01:29:25 trigger? Sep 15 01:29:33 TiagoTiago: send a SMS Sep 15 01:29:36 yeah, make it happen at will Sep 15 01:29:39 TiagoTiago: Or toggle the modem Sep 15 01:29:42 without paying for it Sep 15 01:29:45 phone call would be best Sep 15 01:29:53 modem off/on Sep 15 01:29:57 or perhaps just reassociating Sep 15 01:29:59 hm, switch to offline and back enough? Sep 15 01:30:18 i wonder if theres a dbus call to ask it for neighboring networks Sep 15 01:30:24 i think i saw one Sep 15 01:30:40 no there isn't. Sep 15 01:30:47 not for cel Sep 15 01:30:48 cell Sep 15 01:30:51 fredrin: the problem is N900 has *no* rotation right now Sep 15 01:30:56 i once saw on youtube a video of the N900 booting up and way before the homescreens showed it interefeered with the mic Sep 15 01:31:15 TiagoTiago: modem is a completely seperate CPU Sep 15 01:31:15 btw, why would you want to trigger interference? Sep 15 01:31:24 just for kicks Sep 15 01:31:25 its it not even that much interference anyways Sep 15 01:31:40 use a jammer :) Sep 15 01:31:52 n900 as a jammer? Sep 15 01:31:54 :) Sep 15 01:31:56 no Sep 15 01:32:24 i wonder if i wrap the mic cable around if that would record the sound loud and clear.... Sep 15 01:32:54 luke-jr, and it is unsolvable? Sep 15 01:32:55 i like that pattern GSM devices make, it's so recognizable..... Sep 15 01:33:12 fredrin: apparently not without opening it up and putting in a compass Sep 15 01:33:18 without addtional hardware yes Sep 15 01:33:26 fredrin: N900 is too closed to be an effective jammer Sep 15 01:33:53 the Freerunner will work? Sep 15 01:34:04 possibly, from my understanding Sep 15 01:34:19 luke-jr, you can control the gsm radio on freerunner? Sep 15 01:34:53 ShadSEC: AFAIK, there is a WIP open-source radio firmware for FR Sep 15 01:35:06 interesting Sep 15 01:35:16 it also supports some low-end non-smart phones Sep 15 01:35:24 that go for like $10 on ebay Sep 15 01:35:27 luke-jr, url? Sep 15 01:35:33 I forget Sep 15 01:35:37 but i have seen those WIP to control a radio from 2005 and nothing has come out yet :( Sep 15 01:35:38 affiliated with OpenBTS I think Sep 15 01:35:46 when the plastic case of your bluetooth dongle falls of and you're left with a circuitboard attached to an USB plug itm's probably sing you should buy a new one.... Sep 15 01:35:52 ShadSEC: they can make voice calls to each other now Sep 15 01:35:58 but not to other non-free phones IIRC Sep 15 01:36:11 yes, someone posted the news here a couple of days ago Sep 15 01:36:31 that's not "nothing" Sep 15 01:36:32 luke-jr, ok Sep 15 01:36:46 luke, using a simulated cell tower or a real one? Sep 15 01:36:55 ShadSEC: sounded like real to me Sep 15 01:37:20 if they're doing it in the US, they can use the 900 MHz deregulated GSM band Sep 15 01:37:25 then its just the voice enconding what they must have not implemented Sep 15 01:37:31 with the same power limitations as wifi Sep 15 01:37:45 ShadSEC: possible. or an unknown bug in the protocol Sep 15 01:37:47 if the phone was communicating with a real tower the most dificult part is done Sep 15 01:37:56 what could make OVI suite detec my N73 but not my N900 via bluetooth? Sep 15 01:38:54 I think that if they dont mentio otherwise, there were using a cell simulator Sep 15 01:39:20 not p2p? Sep 15 01:39:29 or maybe they dont mention it because it is not that legal to connect unofficial terminals to gsm network Sep 15 01:40:58 there were very interesting information in www.thc.org ..... but it seems itsgone now Sep 15 01:41:18 waybackmachine or google cache? Sep 15 01:43:44 this was main page for the project http://wiki.thc.org/gsm Sep 15 01:44:01 http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/gsm/osmocom-bb/index.html Sep 15 01:44:03 see that Sep 15 01:44:10 ShadSEC: Sep 15 01:44:43 yes, i read it the other day Sep 15 01:45:29 this is the most interesting part: Andreas Eversberg has been quietly working on getting call control of Layer3 into a state where it can do all the signalling required for mobile-originated and mobile-terminated call. Sep 15 01:45:42 that's what i would like to see.... Sep 15 01:46:38 not on n900. Sep 15 01:46:54 It's in a seperate core that you can't touch. Sep 15 01:46:56 i know, but its also a field i am interested... Sep 15 01:47:19 n900 is great for other things, not that one Sep 15 01:47:52 The fun thing is this is - basically - all - osmoom-bb - and related projects - you need to actually crack voice calls in near-real-time. Sep 15 01:47:59 For GSM at least. Sep 15 01:48:19 You would need a moderately-very more expensive radio reciever. Sep 15 01:48:34 that part is easy, the hardest part is the radio one Sep 15 01:49:00 It's not very hard - it's simply very expensive. Sep 15 01:49:00 and also, correctly implementing the protocols, which are not fully described Sep 15 01:49:21 they were very near to it in 2005 using gnu radio Sep 15 01:49:35 but the project was abandoned Sep 15 01:49:39 no it wasn't Sep 15 01:49:55 http://openbts.sourceforge.net/ Sep 15 01:50:10 the broadband signaling was being decoded Sep 15 01:50:29 who checks if the modem firmware is signed properlly? Sep 15 01:50:42 The modem firmware. Sep 15 01:50:56 it checks itself? Sep 15 01:51:00 yes Sep 15 01:51:08 the modem is a whole different CPU Sep 15 01:51:30 that looks to me as a simulated cell Sep 15 01:51:34 then what prevents someone from flashing a new firmware that is hadcoded to say it's signed? Sep 15 01:51:51 ShadSEC: that's where the 2005 project went Sep 15 01:52:08 TiagoTiago: the firmware on the modem checks the signature of the next one. Sep 15 01:52:19 what happenned with the branches of gsm interception? :) Sep 15 01:52:39 GSM interception is a required part of getting a GSM cell setup Sep 15 01:52:40 oh, i see, the current one gets in the way of the reflashing Sep 15 01:53:35 and with the N900 there is no way to reflash the modemfirmware without the current modem firmware havving a say about it? Sep 15 01:54:17 yes Sep 15 01:54:47 what about somthing like a modchip tricking the current firmware into thinking it's seeing a signed firmware and the flash a non'signed firmware that does't block any reflashing? Sep 15 01:55:04 and then* Sep 15 01:55:24 you can in principle do all sorts of stuff. Sep 15 01:55:36 But then you're left with hacking a non-documented interface. Sep 15 01:55:41 Which isn't so easy. Sep 15 01:56:10 SpeedEvil, so the project was completed Sep 15 01:56:34 ShadSEC: no - openbts has some features that need finished off and polished. Sep 15 01:56:39 checking the hardware it would be possible to start from scratch (itms an arm processor, the memory is that type etc) ? Sep 15 01:56:47 erm Sep 15 01:57:02 The RF interface is undocumented Sep 15 01:57:09 chedcking ... wouldn't it be possible to build it from scratch?* Sep 15 01:57:21 what? Sep 15 01:57:43 you can't get the parts. And if you can they're not documented. Sep 15 01:57:49 You have to use general purpose stuff. Sep 15 01:58:29 even the components used aren't documented and hidden under some superglue seal? Sep 15 01:59:58 if not, assuming there is enough components of each type necessary to buuld a basic working firmware, i imagine you would be able to start poking(in the emtaforical sense) the components and reverse engineer their API, no? Sep 15 02:00:28 In princple. Sep 15 02:00:43 TiagoTiago: how many hardware interfaces have you reverse engineered? Sep 15 02:00:44 you can hack the modem - but it's not a very interesting result. Sep 15 02:01:04 It's man-months of effort at best. Sep 15 02:01:14 Assuming you start out knowing the GSM/3G protocols Sep 15 02:02:26 none with electricity involved, i've read about how people did stuff with things like videogame consoles, telephone networks etc Sep 15 02:02:37 but i've read* Sep 15 02:05:48 Generally the process starts out with reading several thousand page datasheets. Sep 15 02:06:01 yello Sep 15 02:06:12 TermanaN900, allo Sep 15 02:06:19 not poking things and seeing how they react? Sep 15 02:06:39 holla Sep 15 02:07:01 TiagoTiago, if there's documentation, you use it Sep 15 02:07:26 but you'll still have to go through a ton of random guessing in many cases Sep 15 02:08:47 So, I tuned in late to the conversation. What do you want to do again? Sep 15 02:09:13 that's usually what happens in reverse engineering, no? Sep 15 02:09:28 did u guys see that hdcp master key? Sep 15 02:09:44 CreamyG, yup. Sep 15 02:09:50 Tiago, it IS possible, it is just a great deal of work Sep 15 02:10:08 i bet someone hacked it from intel, if they made it Sep 15 02:10:20 i wish it was microsoft. i'd lol more Sep 15 02:10:31 or sony Sep 15 02:11:11 So I'm experimenting with video chat on my n810. I have gizmo5 installed and registered on my n810 and Ekiga registered with an antisip account on my laptop. My laptop can call my n810 just fine and pass audio, but when the call is made the n810's gizmo5 call screen shows a camera with a line through it. Anyone have any idea of gizmo5 disabled h264 pass through for some reason? Sep 15 02:11:26 i was just commenting, they were talking about freerunner devices talking to eachother wihth a simulated cell i think, and someone asked about doing somthing like that withh the N900 and then another person said it wouldm"t be possible becaause the firmware is closed and the chip chwck for signature before allowing a new reflash Sep 15 02:11:39 ah Sep 15 02:12:06 FR devices - the baseband - calypso - docs - got leaked Sep 15 02:12:08 TiagoTiago, and you're going to start a project to hack it? Sep 15 02:12:10 possible yes, probable no Sep 15 02:12:12 hmm if they are figuring out how to do it in nitdroid it's probably possible Sep 15 02:12:14 i wish Sep 15 02:12:24 unless it is locked to a certain protocol Sep 15 02:12:27 TiagoTiago, what's stopping you? Sep 15 02:13:09 lack of knowledge, tools and willpower Sep 15 02:13:13 i don't want to do any programming now, i'm lazy too Sep 15 02:13:19 or maybe stoned :D Sep 15 02:13:35 halo sounds like more fun Sep 15 02:14:06 lol Sep 15 02:14:20 trying to understand someone else's code is hard for me, and learning new languages is not fun either Sep 15 02:14:37 TiagoTiago, 1) Everyone lacks knowledge at some point, 2) the tools are probably not that expensive 3) Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought Sep 15 02:15:13 hmm, mm9 on the n900 is working with the gps properly, but mm10 is not :\ Sep 15 02:15:13 it's probably worse to reverse engineer an api than do pointer math so i'm not helping :P Sep 15 02:15:35 i got the will but not the willpower, kinda the same thing with doing stretches and exercizing dailly Sep 15 02:15:59 Willpower is probably the most important factor on the equation.... if someones life depended on it, probably he would get it done somehow Sep 15 02:16:13 yeah Sep 15 02:16:18 if I was getting paid enough, I could probably learn Sep 15 02:16:23 haha. quit your job and code to afford food Sep 15 02:16:27 lol Sep 15 02:16:31 but it would not be a small number ... Sep 15 02:16:33 perhaps we should threat tiago's life to have it done :P Sep 15 02:16:44 "i'll hack for food" Xp Sep 15 02:16:46 ShadSEC, seen fight club? :D Sep 15 02:16:52 http://qkwv.com/weight.gif - My n900 diet. Sep 15 02:17:09 yeah i have visualroute, i'm sending a hitman to your isp to get you Sep 15 02:17:29 (I subsidised purchase of n900 from food budget, with the aid of thinking about cheap tasty meals I could prepare in bulk) Sep 15 02:17:31 yeah Sep 15 02:17:36 johnxx Sep 15 02:17:53 lol Sep 15 02:19:45 SpeedEvil, heh. I'm taking the budget for a nice quad-core setup out of the money I used to spend going out to lunch. haven't found out it's helping me lose weight though Sep 15 02:19:54 Ha Sep 15 02:20:00 Lunches out are so damn expensive. Sep 15 02:22:10 Yeah, I thought I was doing a good job of not spending too much on lunch, but making it myself is still hugely cheaper Sep 15 02:22:42 plus it's easy since we have a toster oven at work. I don't even have to make my lunch in advance :> Sep 15 02:25:44 AGPS position is calculated by the phone, or is it obteined from the network? Sep 15 02:26:05 errr, yes? Sep 15 02:26:37 ShadSEC: by the phone - pretty much Sep 15 02:26:41 I mean, it gathers information about signal strenght and position of the cells and calculates the position, or it sends that information to the apgs server and gets a reply back? Sep 15 02:26:52 It has a 'real' GPS too Sep 15 02:27:17 yep, but I want to know how do it get information about neighboring cells and its lat/lon Sep 15 02:27:33 but first i need to know, if it does, or not Sep 15 02:27:35 the phone is 'assisted' in getting a GPS fix by being given data about which satellites to look for, IIRC Sep 15 02:28:12 "ephemeris data" (again, IIRC) Sep 15 02:28:23 mm, so it sends just the information about one cell so that according to that rough position it is updated with ephemeris data fr that position? is that how it works? Sep 15 02:28:50 ShadSEC: you don't. Sep 15 02:29:10 ShadSEC: The AGPS bits are handled largely inside themodem. It does not export cell location. Sep 15 02:29:21 oh Sep 15 02:29:22 The GPS is connected to the modem CPU Sep 15 02:29:40 so the cell tower provides that information, but it is just not accesible from so Sep 15 02:30:08 basically, yes. Sep 15 02:30:17 ok, another wall then... thx Sep 15 02:30:17 Though there are serveral modes for GPS Sep 15 02:30:27 Some ofwhich use cell position, some do not Sep 15 02:30:39 yes Sep 15 02:31:00 but i was wondering about if it was possible to get some additional information about te cel Sep 15 02:31:03 cell ower Sep 15 02:33:31 No. There isan openbug requestingthis - but it looks unlikely it's goinganywhere. Sep 15 02:38:47 if they could fix it in software, it is in theory accesible..... Sep 15 02:39:06 hya guys..sending back the n900 to nokia usa tomrrow due to I/O errors in flash...any tips on how to make sure those idiots actually fix it and not just send it back saying its all well? :) Sep 15 02:39:39 get a new one? Sep 15 02:39:52 heheh yeah apart from thty :) Sep 15 02:39:55 *that Sep 15 02:40:10 zeltak, write to the flash until the rest of it is obviously dead? Sep 15 02:40:14 put it inthe microwave for a minute before sending it to them :P Sep 15 02:40:38 btw, do the tech service nowadays identify that damage? Sep 15 02:40:41 i mean, have them send you a new one instead of fixing the one you sent them Sep 15 02:41:07 TiagoTiago, how do you "have them send [him] a new one"? Sep 15 02:41:19 a minute is probably too much time in the microwave Sep 15 02:41:28 perhaps 10 seconds would be enough Sep 15 02:41:36 or a stun gun / taser ... Sep 15 02:41:50 yeah i also want to know :) but seriously now..i mean i reflashed today before sending it tomorrow and im affraid the tech guy looking at it would just not notice anything wrong Sep 15 02:42:05 i guess that is kinda what he was askiing, lol, i didn't think it tthru all that much Sep 15 02:42:11 it is working but i get loads of I/O errors in the log and freezes a few times a day Sep 15 02:42:11 I was VERY serious Sep 15 02:42:39 does warranty covers running over it with your car? Sep 15 02:42:45 ShadSEC: intresting idea but its not all that frakked in willing to risk the warrenty Sep 15 02:42:47 physical damage Sep 15 02:42:57 but how would they notice the microwave thing? Sep 15 02:43:10 all the burnmarks? Sep 15 02:43:16 a few seconds? Sep 15 02:43:28 so you were hit by lightning Sep 15 02:43:28 have you seen what happens to a cd? Sep 15 02:43:36 ShadSEC, depends on if the LCD suffered damage Sep 15 02:43:38 yes, but its different Sep 15 02:43:59 ... or if someone from Nokia was hanging out on this channel ... Sep 15 02:44:02 i like the creative ideas but seriously has any one have any experience with nokia usa tech lab? Sep 15 02:44:09 how different? a bunch of plastic and coonducti/e metal bunched up together Sep 15 02:44:26 johnx, yes, thats why a minute should be too much... but a few secnds should affect the lcd... although I AM NOT SURE. Sep 15 02:45:02 johnx, yeah, lets then reject all phones just in case the used the old microwave trick :P Sep 15 02:45:09 zeltak, afraid not. I guess all you can do is clearly explain the situation. maybe include a note about how to make it freeze in the box? Sep 15 02:45:20 yup johnxx did that.. Sep 15 02:45:24 haha some idiot in a carwash opens door to get something off windsheild and looses door Sep 15 02:45:29 yep, and if they fail, next time remember... microwave :P Sep 15 02:45:29 i hope the idiot that opens it sees it lol Sep 15 02:45:42 zeltak, is it the emmc or the rootfs/initfs flash? Sep 15 02:45:47 ShadSEC: ill keep that in mind ;-) Sep 15 02:45:52 emmc Sep 15 02:45:53 what about water damage? Sep 15 02:46:33 errr... there is prob a sticker for that Sep 15 02:46:56 zeltak, easy then. "if you fill the card with movies the device will crash. please make it not do that. KTHX." Keep the repro instructions simple ;) Sep 15 02:46:57 what about you tell them you lost it, maybe they will send you a new one? uhhh, maybe not, but its not worse than watering it :P Sep 15 02:47:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chOfSxh9Yq4 heheh johnxx i went along that line ..even attached a log output..hope the tech guy is not deadbrain Sep 15 02:48:25 lol Sep 15 02:49:11 zeltak, I mean, as long as you can repro it by copying files from a windows machine to the emmc, I'd *hope* that they'd realize the problem. Sep 15 02:49:43 lets hope so...k thx for the tips and microwave ideads guys.. nighty night Sep 15 02:50:06 good luck Sep 15 02:50:08 zeltak, best of luck. tell us how it turns out Sep 15 02:50:23 thx..sure will keep u posted Sep 15 02:52:37 good luck zeltak,and if you ever do the microwave thing, stop it after the first flash! ;) Sep 15 02:53:06 now for real http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_z1QcytwsA Sep 15 02:55:08 yeah, that one is real Sep 15 02:55:33 the burns happen much more later than the damage to flash/ etc... Sep 15 02:55:55 first flash, stop it, and better to use te microwave at lw power Sep 15 02:56:40 I will try with an old usb stick and see Sep 15 02:57:54 Ok, be truthful. Who is it on /g/ with an N8x0 with 54 days of uptime? :P **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 15 02:59:57 2010