**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 17 02:59:57 2010 Sep 17 03:04:31 n900 doesn't have NMEA right? Sep 17 03:04:48 correct, the n900 does not have cookies Sep 17 03:08:51 GNUtoo|laptop: not natively - there are some people doing it though Sep 17 03:08:58 ok Sep 17 03:54:45 hey Sep 17 03:57:15 hm. new nitdroid Sep 17 03:57:18 wonder if the modem support is in it Sep 17 03:59:22 I would presume so Sep 17 03:59:25 maybe even my GPS code Sep 17 04:00:09 wow Sep 17 04:00:19 that would be neet. working modem with voice calling or data only? Sep 17 04:00:24 i know they were having problems with the modem's audio Sep 17 04:00:29 no idea Sep 17 04:00:41 voice calling to me means SIP Sep 17 04:00:52 HAHA... fair point Sep 17 04:01:08 well i hardly ever use actual cell phone calling but you never know Sep 17 04:01:20 i'm installing it now so i guess i'll see in a minute Sep 17 04:06:13 new splash too huh? neet Sep 17 04:07:46 hm. i have a signal bar at the top :) but no 3G symbol Sep 17 04:09:04 hm. it's running on edge Sep 17 04:10:43 doesn't seem to be working tho Sep 17 04:15:15 Macer: probably your fault Sep 17 04:15:30 btw my desktop monitor is dead :( Sep 17 04:15:34 so I have to use this lame mac Sep 17 04:41:24 crap Sep 17 04:41:31 can't seem to get the APNs to work Sep 17 04:41:44 jacekowski: ???: sorry, have to say NOLO on 'U' definitely does NOT load or consume any energy from USB, on a relatively full battery. So it actually DIScharges Sep 17 04:41:48 i try adding one and setting hte tmob info but after trying to save it .. it just sort of disappears Sep 17 04:44:13 eiting the mnc seems to break it Sep 17 04:44:56 jacekowski: au contraire I guess holding device in 'u' is a way to get beyond sane discharge limit Sep 17 04:47:59 is apt-cache search just broken? Sep 17 04:50:51 http://codepad.org/0NiXivxu i can only understand two of matches (openntpd and python-twisted-news [because it has nntp in description]) Sep 17 04:51:04 s/ of // Sep 17 04:51:05 slonopotamus meant: http://codepad.org/0NiXivxu i can only understand twomatches (openntpd and python-twisted-news [because it has nntp in description]) Sep 17 05:00:49 slonopotamus: it seems to match weird things as well, maybe install scripts or dunno what Sep 17 05:01:09 DocScrutinizer: from user POV it's broken. Sep 17 05:03:22 file a ticket upstream Sep 17 05:03:59 I had similar thing one time Sep 17 05:04:15 DocScrutinizer51: already talking to them. i hoped i'm doing smth wrong :) Sep 17 06:00:04 Morning Sep 17 06:00:15 morning, Crossfade. Sep 17 06:07:37 <`Francesca_Lucch> hey guys is there an mp3 tagger for n900 Sep 17 06:09:08 yes Sep 17 06:09:36 `Francesca_Lucch: MussOrgSky Sep 17 06:37:09 morning Sep 17 06:37:35 aiui council elections are open since yesterday? Sep 17 06:38:28 morning Doc Sep 17 06:38:34 mo merlin1991 Sep 17 06:40:16 I'd like to know how many days *after* elections are opened (even closed?) it's supposed the tokens/balots are sent to the last member who would have been allowed to vote Sep 17 06:44:45 hm I have 3 karma on maemo.org from activity in "groups" wtf? I don't remember doing anything :D Sep 17 06:44:51 from a mail I kindly got a forward: >>Voting will run from September 16th 00:00 UTC until September 22 2010, 23:59 UTC.<< Mail sent to original addressee: 2010-09-16 10:14 - me missing any mail, and my calendar showing me it's 17th of September Sep 17 06:46:41 X-Fade: ^^^ ? Sep 17 06:47:03 DocScrutinizer: Your words don't make sense, please rephrase? Sep 17 06:48:18 elections opened since yesterday, some others got mail with token after(!) elections opened, I'm still missing token to vote. How's this gong to be sorted? Sep 17 06:48:42 DocScrutinizer: I'll sell you mine Sep 17 06:48:52 DocScrutinizer: Do you have enough karma? Sep 17 06:49:03 I'd guess 364 is enough? Sep 17 06:49:12 Yes, it should. Sep 17 06:49:47 Everybody got mailed yesterday. Sep 17 06:50:06 So if you didn't get yours, you should ping dneary. Sep 17 06:50:18 isn't that odd to send out tokens *after* election is opened? Sep 17 06:50:22 He can look up your token or resend it. Sep 17 06:50:40 DocScrutinizer: Details. What is a few hours on a week. Sep 17 06:51:57 as you see in my case, there's good reason to send such mails out with good advance in time, so all possible issues can get sorted until election period STARTS Sep 17 06:53:08 a lot of community members might not even have noticed about council elections, and now have to *start* considering what's all that about and what they're going to do Sep 17 06:56:30 hell not even I knew about elections opened yesterday, until this morning some guy asked me what's this mail he got is all about and what he shall do now Sep 17 06:58:08 I'd honestly suggest to postpone closing of elections by one week Sep 17 06:59:03 and make damn sure those mails *really* got out and delivered Sep 17 06:59:50 all of them Sep 17 07:01:24 after running the mail template thru several spam filters to make sure it won't trigger Sep 17 07:04:18 also making sure it's not a fsckdup Nokia "from:" addr which is known to make postmasters moan and swear and trigger greylisting or sth, due to borked header details (don't ask me for details, as I am no postmaster and you don't want me to quote the swearword my postmaster uttered when I asked him why Nokia mail never gets thru) Sep 17 07:05:16 I might actually be interested to hear the words, just out of... academic interest. Sep 17 07:05:30 (and no, this can't be the reason my mail is missing, Nokia is on the whitelist now) Sep 17 07:05:48 maemo.org mail != nokia infra, we don't run exchange Sep 17 07:05:49 :P Sep 17 07:05:55 postmasters filter on 'from:' at their own peril Sep 17 07:06:15 also: mail is totally *&#$ed up as a protocol in general Sep 17 07:06:18 it's not from, it's some reverse DNS lookup that failed Sep 17 07:06:47 iirc Sep 17 07:07:26 but a reverse lookup fail of the domain in the 'from:'? or a reverse lookup fail in one of the hosts that sent it? Sep 17 07:08:47 I'm not a postmaster, and I didn't ask for all the gory details Sep 17 07:09:36 and for the records: my postmaster started with "FUCK! those bloody idiots..." Sep 17 07:12:00 hello Sep 17 07:18:00 I have comic widget ver 0.4 Sep 17 07:18:13 but it doesnt how me the latest strip Sep 17 07:18:25 it shows me the start of 2010 Sep 17 07:18:35 how can I fix that? Sep 17 07:18:47 comic widget? Sep 17 07:19:15 it shows you the latest jokes from Eddie Murphy? Sep 17 07:20:32 balmer rap as comic strip :-P Sep 17 07:20:56 dilbert strip Sep 17 07:21:13 but doesn't take me to latest Sep 17 07:21:21 why? Sep 17 07:21:27 developersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopers Sep 17 07:22:24 why comic widget doest show me latest one? Sep 17 07:22:39 it shows me 1 year old strips Sep 17 07:22:44 lolloo: we all heard you Sep 17 07:22:56 * merlin1991 wants an xkcd widget :) Sep 17 07:23:26 including title Sep 17 07:27:19 I love comic strips Sep 17 07:27:31 I love comic widget for n900 Sep 17 07:27:40 comic widget... mmm Sep 17 07:27:54 why doesn't it show me last strip by date Sep 17 07:28:06 mmm maybe something missing Sep 17 07:28:16 comic strip widget is awesome Sep 17 07:28:25 all comics imcluded Sep 17 07:28:41 mmm am looking at dilbert comic strips Sep 17 07:28:56 using comic widget on my n900 Sep 17 07:29:20 why wouldn't it show me latest dilbert comic strip? Sep 17 07:29:39 mmm I wounder why it wouldn't show me last strip Sep 17 07:29:44 of dilbert... Sep 17 07:30:06 interesting... uhm.. song? Sep 17 07:31:54 comic strip Sep 17 07:32:04 dilbert comic strip is awesome Sep 17 07:32:18 k Sep 17 07:32:23 I am looking at it using comic widget Sep 17 07:32:28 on my N900 Sep 17 07:32:36 including other comics Sep 17 07:32:42 i'm pretty sure you said that before Sep 17 07:32:48 like pc and pixel comic strip Sep 17 07:33:07 and many others Sep 17 07:33:21 it uploads automatically from site Sep 17 07:33:29 and bring it to your fone Sep 17 07:33:34 on desktop Sep 17 07:33:42 right Sep 17 07:34:30 there is a griffiti comic strip too Sep 17 07:34:34 it awesome Sep 17 07:34:38 check it out Sep 17 07:34:43 funny as hell Sep 17 07:34:45 cba Sep 17 07:34:50 * FIQ|n900 afk Sep 17 07:35:06 * lolloo is having fun. Sep 17 07:44:23 whats the best themme for my N900? Sep 17 07:44:38 the one you personally like? Sep 17 07:44:48 yes sir Sep 17 07:44:58 any recommendation? Sep 17 07:45:05 theme = tastes Sep 17 07:45:21 I want a theme that changes the all icons Sep 17 07:45:33 psycho_oreos, I kinda tried to say that :D Sep 17 07:45:35 and even motions in menu Sep 17 07:45:58 whatever give me your recommendation please Sep 17 07:46:28 give give Sep 17 07:46:33 merlin1991, I have Okuda, which I bet, will share opinions :) Sep 17 07:46:50 merlin1991, hehe, too bad I beat you to the buzzer :) Sep 17 07:47:07 I have D-theme smooth blue Sep 17 07:47:20 Morning, all Sep 17 07:47:21 but it doesnt convert everything Sep 17 07:47:21 Sorry, I meant lolloo ^^^ Sep 17 07:47:33 maemo is a nokia right? Sep 17 07:47:34 :) Sep 17 07:47:37 what about the booklet Sep 17 07:47:41 who has a booklet Sep 17 07:47:51 lolloo, Humanity changes most of the icons Sep 17 07:47:52 I will try your recommendation, T-Co Sep 17 07:47:56 I'm using the nokia n-series theme :P Sep 17 07:47:58 nice! Sep 17 07:48:26 Humanity is in repo, right? Sep 17 07:48:47 I think so. At least in extras-devel Sep 17 07:48:59 I use the default theme, tried that dark theme and I didn't like it one bit (black and white).. the use of greyscale colouring I like Sep 17 07:49:14 T-Co, may I recommend for you? Sep 17 07:49:33 lolloo, Shoot Sep 17 07:49:41 try blue-sky Sep 17 07:50:06 changes Icons and menu motion too! Sep 17 07:50:14 anyone wandered in the ways of QML around? Sep 17 07:50:19 Maybe some day, I'm now enjoying the retro-feel of Okuda Sep 17 07:50:27 awesome Sep 17 07:50:55 * lolloo is going to check Okuda theme Sep 17 07:51:56 I really enjou the sounds in that theme. Sep 17 07:52:10 * mece wanders off to #qt Sep 17 07:52:21 I should find ringtones and im tones to go with it, Sep 17 07:52:24 wow it has sounds! omg Sep 17 07:52:52 wow it has sounds! omg Sep 17 07:53:01 oops hehehe Sep 17 07:54:36 T-Co, where did you get Okuda theme from? couldnt find it in repo. Sep 17 07:57:08 lolloo, I think it's from extras-devel. Do you have that catalogue enabled? Sep 17 07:57:45 Yes I think so, Sep 17 07:58:04 will try googling for it. no worries Sep 17 08:01:49 here you go Sep 17 08:01:51 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58667 Sep 17 08:04:03 awesome right T-Co ? Sep 17 08:05:00 looks like pacman's theme Sep 17 08:05:20 Jaffa: please read my rant on backscroll (100min ago) Sep 17 08:06:03 hahaha Sep 17 08:06:10 hhhhhhhhaaa Sep 17 08:06:11 hello, is there a way to see the velocity/bearing in Qt Simulator when simulating for the N900 device? Sep 17 08:21:13 DocScrutinizer51: They're all supposed to be sent at the same time. Sep 17 08:25:49 dneary: X-Fade: sounds like there may be mail queue blockage or something? Sep 17 08:26:24 Jaffa, I don't know what the issue is. I have a few people asking me for tokens. Sep 17 08:26:32 I got email fine, personally Sep 17 08:26:56 dneary: Ditto. Sep 17 08:27:22 Mail host is not correct, so some providers will bounce when they are more strict. Sep 17 08:33:02 good morning #maemo Sep 17 08:34:39 morn Sep 17 08:36:41 man, the more i look into meego, the crappier it seems Sep 17 08:36:54 :( Sep 17 08:37:36 maemo FTW Sep 17 08:38:04 there are a handful of things that actually look interesting, but the meego site is so crappy Sep 17 08:38:04 MNZ: you highlighted me yesterday? (was asleep, sorry) Sep 17 08:38:41 want to develop for meego handsets? sure, but only with qemu, and btw you need a nokia n900 in order to get the image ... Sep 17 08:39:23 ieatlint: we've actually fixed that problem ow Sep 17 08:39:24 now Sep 17 08:39:45 nolo gp is redistributable and we had the gles test running on the qemu image Sep 17 08:40:02 want to develop for a meego netbook? well, once again, pretty much just linux... and you can either install it on a netbook, do a chroot environment that intel tells me requires the host machine have an intel gma, or use virtualbox -- but oh, btw, if you use virtualbox, you can't actually use the meego ui Sep 17 08:40:03 just twm Sep 17 08:40:06 we're not idiots, we do see those kind of problems Sep 17 08:40:06 :P Sep 17 08:40:15 no, it's not fixed Sep 17 08:40:24 ok, it's fixed but not released. Sep 17 08:40:34 ... Sep 17 08:40:37 thanks? :P Sep 17 08:40:39 Stskeeps, nvm :) was just commenting on the state of meego Sep 17 08:41:38 ieatlint: the chroot issue (atom) i fully agree with.. the host machine being intel gma is a stupid phrasing, technically you can drop in your own libGL Sep 17 08:41:48 people already had meego running on nvidia, so Sep 17 08:42:05 yeah, i just spent the past 3 days at meego events being run by intel Sep 17 08:42:14 MNZ: i don't personally share GAN's opinions - how's your kernel work going? Sep 17 08:42:22 ieatlint: ah, my condolences Sep 17 08:42:25 not too impressed.. Sep 17 08:42:35 Stskeeps: eh, open bar Sep 17 08:42:50 ah, that always helps Sep 17 08:42:55 Jaffa: We're looking into it with X-Fade Sep 17 08:42:55 good morning Sep 17 08:43:03 ieatlint: most people would be developing using qt creator and MADDE though and qt simulator Sep 17 08:43:05 they violated the gpl too Sep 17 08:43:10 oh? Sep 17 08:43:14 handed out usb flash drives with meego images on them Sep 17 08:43:17 no source :P Sep 17 08:43:18 It appears that the mail headers were showing a funny Return-path, and some mailers were rejecting it because of that Sep 17 08:43:26 http://pastebin.ca/1942673 Sep 17 08:43:39 ieatlint: well, you can do a written request.. can't recall how that part sounds again Sep 17 08:43:47 Stskeeps, well meego folk are confusing, no offense :P but I'm staying with maemo for a while, however futile that may seem. Sep 17 08:43:49 haha Sep 17 08:44:02 i'm half tempted, but then i remember i'm trying to not be that asshole Sep 17 08:45:32 Stskeeps, the kernel work is pretty much over, a GUI is needed for the EQ though and machine-level drivers are needed to make use of the filter on each specific machine (so for example on n900 we use it for speaker protection, etc) Sep 17 08:45:57 Which reminds me, is meego using PA as well? Sep 17 08:46:03 MNZ: i think there's a lot of different opinions and a lot of different people who people are unsure of where they are in charge of, makes discussions frustrating (even for someone working on the project). if we ignore the meego part completely, we have audio experts from n900 kernel in #meego-arm and kernel maintainers, so could be cool to hear about your work Sep 17 08:46:17 yes, we are - no other way when it comes to cmtspeech Sep 17 08:47:01 MNZ: we kinda have to work with upstream linux kernel, the meego part is 'just' packaging Sep 17 08:47:04 dneary: Cool Sep 17 08:47:15 Stskeeps, I understand. Just another distro Sep 17 08:47:31 :nod: Sep 17 08:47:52 we would be interested in speaker protection of the sole reason the current one is closed source, to my knowlege. Sep 17 08:47:55 dge Sep 17 08:47:56 dneary: Yeah, I saw that as the Sender and thought it was some CDN thing Sep 17 08:48:10 any good source for unofficial qtwrt device api? for example, how networking is accessible Sep 17 08:48:23 dneary: Presumably the logs can be grepped to get the ones rejected and then resend (and/or regenerate)? Sep 17 08:48:36 Stskeeps: AFAIK the current speaker protection is simply a frequency filter Sep 17 08:48:46 Stskeeps, I was planning to push to get this into upstream, but I wanted to make sure it's pretty clean first, and there are still some changes to make Sep 17 08:48:54 MNZ: :nod: if you want reviews, we're here :) Sep 17 08:48:59 Jaffa: That is not possible as it bypassed the mailer and sent directly to the smarthost. Sep 17 08:49:01 RST38h, yeah it's a very simple filter. Sep 17 08:49:42 Jaffa: So a gentle "Reminder" mailing would probably be the best solution. Sep 17 08:49:44 I dumped sine wave sweep from 500hz to 0 into PA and checked out the output. I could easily replicate the filter using the audio codec's features Sep 17 08:50:34 so it sits on top of the current audio codec/driver for n900? Sep 17 08:51:29 Stskeeps, the audio codec does the register setting and all that. How/what you use the filter for depends on the 'machine' driver (alsa SoC drivers are 3 parts, codec -> platform -> machine) Sep 17 08:51:46 :nod: Sep 17 08:52:06 so write now I use the n900 driver (rx51.c) to set the filter up for speaker protection and turn it on automatically if speaker output starts Sep 17 08:52:11 s/write/right/ Sep 17 08:52:11 MNZ meant: so right now I use the n900 driver (rx51.c) to set the filter up for speaker protection and turn it on automatically if speaker output starts Sep 17 08:52:34 we have jarkko nikula / jhnikula sitting in #meego-arm and i think he was very involved with the audio driver in fremantle program and now meego/n900 Sep 17 08:52:51 yeah, I've seen his signature in a lot of places :D Sep 17 08:53:01 :nod: Sep 17 08:55:00 Jaffa, Not really Sep 17 08:55:05 Stskeeps, my main aim though is getting rid of PA, and I *think* it's possible, though not that easy, and will save a whole bunch of CPU/power. Problem is, I think a lot of people disagree with that Sep 17 08:55:08 Because they're not being rejected in Maemo Sep 17 08:55:19 I'm going to re-send the lot with a "reminder". Sep 17 08:55:41 MNZ: i think PA is here to stay, cos meego works on multiple devices Sep 17 08:55:55 MNZ: but if anything can be offloaded to codecs this is obviously good Sep 17 08:56:37 MNZ: Also think of audio routing for BT etc. Sep 17 08:57:55 X-Fade, quite frankly I haven't looked into that at all yet. But so far everything that faced us was solvable with ALSA plugins + hooks. Sep 17 08:58:26 Stskeeps, PA works over ALSA, so that's sort of a moot point IMHO Sep 17 08:58:55 MNZ: :nod: either way, i'm no expert Sep 17 08:59:17 MNZ: i would know who to put you in a room with to discuss these things though Sep 17 09:00:13 Stskeeps, that would be awesome. DocScrutinizer is also quite involved with this and I think he would like to join said discussion Sep 17 09:00:49 MNZ: :nod: it's kinda a higher level discussion than 'just' n900 when it comes to PA Sep 17 09:00:50 So, i just discovered there's an election. I discovered it by reading scrollback for a channel i rarely if ever read in that form. Sep 17 09:01:17 As i'm on vacation, i'm not even sure i could find an email in my mailbox... Sep 17 09:01:56 MNZ: what was the page for your work? Sep 17 09:02:00 (garage somewhere?) Sep 17 09:02:29 Stskeeps, https://garage.maemo.org/projects/aic34-eq/ Sep 17 09:02:45 Stskeeps, (most everything is outdated, except for the repo) Sep 17 09:02:58 :nod: Sep 17 09:03:11 * timeless_pidgin kicks pidgin for its totally broken painting while scrolling in fullscreen Sep 17 09:03:15 I dunno why I parenthesized that 0_o Sep 17 09:03:27 timeless_pidgin, 25 Sep 17 09:07:02 Mnz: thanks. I don't think i'll spend one on pidgin atm. Sep 17 09:07:50 MNZ: not sure if he's around at the moment (typical lunchtime atm), but at least introductions have been initiated :) Sep 17 09:08:15 For pidgin, the font/insert/smile/attention bar should be a single button in the same row as the user text line. Tapping it should bring up an overlay which doesn't affect layout and contains the current row of buttons. Sep 17 09:08:23 Stskeeps, thanks :) appreciate the effort Sep 17 09:09:22 http://gitorious.org/nokia-n900-kernel is our current kernel 'tree' (we upstream from here and sync with upstream releases) Sep 17 09:09:27 And the channel list should probably be an overlay of the input area on the right side, tapping it could bring up an overlay of 60 percent of the screen width... Sep 17 09:09:52 And there should be an *easy* way to pick a much smaller font size.. Grr Sep 17 09:10:19 Oh, and the channel topic should share a row w/ the channel name ! Sep 17 09:20:35 dneary: X-Fade: sounds sensible Sep 17 09:21:15 Jaffa, Thanks :) Sep 17 09:21:31 Should be done by lunchtime (I don't want to resend tokens to people who have voted already) Sep 17 09:35:02 Please, can someone help me getting some informations about the icon used in Maemo ? I don't understand where to find them or use them :( Sep 17 09:39:08 hey tet Sep 17 09:39:14 which icon? Sep 17 09:40:39 Carneque, I spent hours trying to understand an easy way to use any of the maemo default icons (stock icons) listed here http://www.forum.nokia.com/document/Maemo_5_Icon_List/ Sep 17 09:42:36 I'm taking a look here Sep 17 09:44:01 The directory ../icons contains the folders with the related sized icons inside. Sep 17 09:44:35 So you'd just write your program around utilizing the stock item you want I believe Sep 17 09:46:19 What is the exact path of this icon folder ? Sep 17 09:48:12 turning my phone on Sep 17 09:50:14 "iPad sales are slashing laptop sales by as much as 50 per cent, according to the boss of US retailer Best Buy." Sep 17 09:50:18 Bye bye netbooks Sep 17 09:51:43 my n900 is not charged any more and there is no sense when i connect the charger/usb connector to it, Sep 17 09:51:44 that's awesome for laptop buyers Sep 17 09:51:50 until 2 hour a go when device was turned off, if i connect the charger/usb it started up but now nothing will happened anymore, any help or suggestion will be welcome. Sep 17 09:53:42 Carneque, Think i just found the folder... /n900/home/opt/usr/share/icons Sep 17 09:53:46 hey tet, did you search through the terminal? Sep 17 09:54:02 Carneque, My main problem was that i didn't want to point directly to the file Sep 17 09:54:21 why not? Sep 17 09:54:37 and use more something like "image = gtk.image_new_from_stock(hildon.GENERAL_ADD, gtk.ICON_SIZE_BUTTON)" Sep 17 09:54:54 Because if in further release they modify the path :/ i'am screwed Sep 17 09:55:11 And to save me the trouble of finding files on N900 without a proper search tool :/ Sep 17 09:55:32 find in xterm? Sep 17 09:55:53 what folder was /n900 in, and why isn't that path written on the Maemo 5 icon list page? Sep 17 09:55:55 yeah it's what i finally did Sep 17 09:56:23 so there is no bash command loc Sep 17 09:56:29 I just got this Sep 17 09:56:30 phone Sep 17 09:56:37 no locate sadly :( Sep 17 09:56:57 /n900 is just an sshfs folder mounted on my computer Sep 17 09:57:13 oh okay Sep 17 09:57:28 I really don't get what the point is to make a full icon list and don't put the actual folder of these Sep 17 09:57:29 There isn't an extension pack yet with additional commands? Sep 17 09:57:56 whoever wrote that page should definetly consider adding it Sep 17 09:59:54 well a find / -name *.png | grep shows the paths quite fast though :D Sep 17 10:00:55 merlin1991, in any case there is a bash command to do things. Sure i agree. Yet common utility folder like the icon one should be documented. Sep 17 10:01:03 and i still miss the locate command :'( Sep 17 10:01:21 hey guys Sep 17 10:01:28 okay... in findutils-gnu's description Sep 17 10:01:35 is there an replacement for moonlight? Sep 17 10:01:48 it says 'locate' has been split off into a seperate packageg Sep 17 10:02:00 sunlight ? :/ Sep 17 10:02:05 so it may exist in another package Sep 17 10:02:08 .... Sep 17 10:02:32 moonlight thw linux ver for microsoft silverlight Sep 17 10:02:38 the* Sep 17 10:27:18 why the hell would anyone want silverlight running on Linux? Sep 17 10:27:25 Even if it's Open Source, it's utterly crap technology Sep 17 10:27:36 It's like Flash designed by crackwhores Sep 17 10:27:47 while many web-pages show content with it Sep 17 10:27:52 simple as that Sep 17 10:28:00 define:"many" Sep 17 10:28:09 There's many websites that use HTML/CSS to display shit Sep 17 10:28:36 i could paste you plenty of finnish sites with silverlight content but you wouldn't agree anyway, so I'm not going to Sep 17 10:30:53 well, then there's plenty of finnish idiots! Sep 17 10:31:16 Or at least, managers with too much grip on what their codemonkeys have to do. Sep 17 10:31:35 everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot? :) Sep 17 10:31:57 that's pretty much his approach, yes Sep 17 10:31:58 ;) Sep 17 10:32:09 Not at all Sep 17 10:32:23 Anyone who willfully accepts silverlight as a valid technology is an idiot Sep 17 10:32:35 you prefer flash? Sep 17 10:32:43 I hate Flash with a passion, I don't call people who use/develop in it idiots Sep 17 10:32:45 i thought flash was source of all evil Sep 17 10:35:37 crashanddie, "why the hell would anyone.." Sep 17 10:35:40 its open source, we can Sep 17 10:35:48 and even if not Sep 17 10:35:52 I didn't say you couldn't Sep 17 10:35:56 I ask why you would. Sep 17 10:35:57 just because you dont think its useful Sep 17 10:36:02 others do Sep 17 10:36:31 well, then give me a proper rationale around the use of silverlight Sep 17 10:36:37 i dont have one Sep 17 10:36:41 i am not a silverlight person Sep 17 10:36:45 but others are Sep 17 10:37:38 ask me same question about why I care about gtk/hildon on meego etc and I might have more to say (and have done) Sep 17 10:37:39 then don't bitch about my bitches -- I asked "Why the hell would you want it?", so unless there is a good reason to use silverlight rather than technology x (be it flash, html 5, whatever), I don't see the point of pointing out there are plenty of users or plenty of websites. Sep 17 10:37:51 s/bitches/bitching/ Sep 17 10:37:52 crashanddie meant: then don't bitch about my bitching -- I asked "Why the hell would you want it?", so unless there is a good reason to use silverlight rather than technology x (be it flash, html 5, whatever), I don't see the point of pointing out there are plenty of users ... Sep 17 10:40:48 well, i don't need to ask people why should i use something, typically i try to learn if it's useful for me or not.. if not, then I'm simply not going to use it and not telling everyone that it's crap and it shouldn't be ever on the linux Sep 17 10:41:18 i personally would like to see silverlight on linux as well, asap please :) Sep 17 10:44:44 ask steve ballmer Sep 17 10:51:34 hmmm frals Sep 17 10:51:40 if i send an animated gif Sep 17 10:51:50 via you know what, does it play at the other end? Sep 17 11:00:37 luke-jr: you have tmob? Sep 17 11:06:39 Surfa: damn, you're thick. Sep 17 11:06:55 crashanddie, like talking to a mirror right? Sep 17 11:08:53 and damn, windows 7 "first run" takes a bloody long time Sep 17 11:08:53 Surfa: not really, I just get reasonably pissed when people put words in my mouth. Sep 17 11:10:51 Stskeeps: jacekowski: ShadowJK: ok, some 7h of device hooked up to charger and kept in NOLO "u" were enough to get 3.07V on battery Sep 17 11:12:16 any way to fix a corrupted internal memory (eMMC) ? it says device storage format unsupported Sep 17 11:12:17 so definitely: NOLO is NOT charging. Recommendations to keep device in 'u' mode to recover from flat battery are absolutely contraproductive Sep 17 11:12:37 th3hate: reflash eMMC Sep 17 11:16:39 SpeedEvil: ^^^ s/ Stskeeps / SpeedEvil / Sep 17 11:17:06 DocScrutinizer, flash valilla emmc with same flags as rootfs? Sep 17 11:17:40 flash both. Which flags? Sep 17 11:18:00 Interesting Sep 17 11:18:01 ~flashing Sep 17 11:18:05 rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 17 11:18:57 SpeedEvil: NOLO is ignoring 'u' and enters charging mode with flashing yellow now on flat bat Sep 17 11:19:03 th3hate, afaik, flash emmc without rebootflag, and then rootfs Sep 17 11:19:23 I can't get the app manager to work over my wi-fi (it works on ther wifi-s). Any suggestions why? I tried turning the firewall off, it doesn't help. Sep 17 11:19:30 hmm Sep 17 11:19:37 merlin1991: exactly Sep 17 11:20:12 har: I would install rootsh - then do apt-gert install fmms - or something - to get a reasble log Sep 17 11:20:15 readable Sep 17 11:20:32 har: What do you mean by doesn't work - what doesn't work Sep 17 11:20:39 merlin1991, reboot is -R ? Sep 17 11:21:04 yes Sep 17 11:21:23 it doesn't download files and doesn't update itself. Internet works in browser. Sep 17 11:21:42 great post by EIPI: "All the talk about the legacy devices (e.g. N8X0, 770) by the candidates in that Q&A I did got me recharging my N800 for the first time in months - like 3 months! I updated to the latest Community SSU, installed Telescope and Diablo5 theme. And WOW - another highlight for me! That screen size, form factor and now with these little bells and whistles makes this thing so refreshed! Thank you to the devels of Telescope, Diablo Sep 17 11:21:42 5 and the Community SSU. My N800 feels invigorated." http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=818528#post818528 Sep 17 11:22:09 lcuk, pretty cool! Sep 17 11:24:17 * rmrfchik has n810 as well Sep 17 11:24:26 don't know how to use it now :( Sep 17 11:31:37 har: repo servers might be temporarily down Sep 17 11:36:38 Is there a way to take a screen shot on the N900? Sep 17 11:37:02 at least, there is a plugin Sep 17 11:37:20 ctrl-shift-p Sep 17 11:37:20 you can start it, press camera key and it takes a screenshot, can't remember the name through Sep 17 11:37:29 Carneque: ctrl-sh-P Sep 17 11:37:58 on the keyboard? Sep 17 11:38:25 search for picture file in .images/screenshots iirc Sep 17 11:38:48 Carneque: sure on kbd, where else? :-D Sep 17 11:39:31 I guess I'm just confused how I get capital P and press sh all at the same time? Sep 17 11:39:59 ooh? Sep 17 11:40:08 yeah haha Sep 17 11:41:02 hm, so it would seem Sep 17 11:41:58 lol I thought you meant the letters s and h Sep 17 11:42:04 <---- duh Sep 17 11:45:38 SpeedEvil: anybody: doesn somebody know off top of his head the twl4030 hard cutout voltage threshold for whole system? I.E which is minimum voltage the N900 needs to boot? Sep 17 11:45:49 (boot to NOLO) Sep 17 11:54:29 SpeedEvil: haha, inserting charger for <1s makes NOLO boot to system instead of charging low battery Sep 17 11:57:45 ~curse pyqt Sep 17 11:57:45 the madde has no support for opengl in qt4? Sep 17 11:57:46 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, pyqt ! Sep 17 11:58:13 self.setAttribute(Qt.WA_Maemo5StackedWindow) Sep 17 11:58:15 fails Sep 17 11:58:42 hm that curse defenitely should go May you be reincarnated as a Windows Vista administrator, ! Sep 17 12:01:30 moo. Sep 17 12:02:23 SpeedEvil: answering my own Q: <3.0V seems NOLO and so whole hw doesn't start Sep 17 12:03:44 20 inserts of charger for a moment - to make NOLO try boot the system - did the trick to discharge cell from 3.1 to 2.99 Sep 17 12:07:41 now testing emergency recovery charge from host usb Sep 17 12:08:02 steady yellow :-) Sep 17 12:09:00 but different to charger where it took 10s max, now it seems to take its time Sep 17 12:09:47 isn't it supposed to take 30 min? Sep 17 12:10:03 nah, it takes until cell voltage is >3.0V Sep 17 12:10:11 then NOLO starts up Sep 17 12:10:25 yeah Sep 17 12:10:27 now Sep 17 12:10:42 "NOKIA" and flashing yellow Sep 17 12:11:32 Doc: It is dead, Jim. You take its tricorder, and I will take its purse. Sep 17 12:11:38 and mass storage :-o Sep 17 12:11:59 now it booted to normal act_dead Sep 17 12:12:54 which means it had a very short green or white flash on ind LED, and now continues flashing yellow and black screen instead of "NOKIA" (normal behaviour) Sep 17 12:13:20 mass storage however was obviously a function of NOLO :-O Sep 17 12:16:25 hello - what bit depth is the general UI rendered at? I thought it was 565-16bpp but something early in boot complains about unsupported depth and reboots. is it looking for 24bpp on /dev/fb0 ? Sep 17 12:16:36 16 Sep 17 12:16:47 It is RGB565] Sep 17 12:17:04 hmm, thats what I thought. thanks Sep 17 12:22:28 I am getting intermittent hicups networking through the usb connection, sometime works fine other times not. when not and I do /etc/init.d/networking restart I get an error "Reconfiguring network interfaces...sh: missing ] " Anyone able to point me in the right direction to fix it? Sep 17 12:23:18 jpinx-eeepc, try sh -x /etc/init.d/networking restart Sep 17 12:23:26 try to find out which command is causing that error Sep 17 12:23:51 Is the N900 supposed to come with a CD for your computer? Sep 17 12:24:38 Carneque: No - It's supposed to replace your computer Sep 17 12:25:19 mgedmin: ouch - lots of output that I'll have to sift through and transcribe... Sep 17 12:25:26 good one Sep 17 12:25:56 jpinx-eeepc, welcome to the wonderful world of software Sep 17 12:26:21 most likely there's a broken script in /etc/network/if-*.d/ Sep 17 12:26:47 mgedmin: going through it now... Sep 17 12:27:17 here we go Sep 17 12:27:35 wwell, maybe mass storage mode isn't supported by NOLO but very early in regular system boot, even before grafix card gets cleaned from "NOLO" picture that remained in framebuffer Sep 17 12:27:48 ... + ifdown -a sh: missing ] Sep 17 12:28:00 mgedmin: where do I fix that? Sep 17 12:28:48 iow - where is ifdown ? Sep 17 12:29:39 no other errors apart from the last line saying echo failed and exit 0 Sep 17 12:30:42 ifdown is one of the system commands that also runs scripts Sep 17 12:31:15 try inserting 'set -x' near the top of each script in /etc/network/if-down.d/* Sep 17 12:31:46 ok - moment ... Sep 17 12:34:00 seems to be only one - mc-await-disconnect-script Sep 17 12:41:49 mgedmin: it refers me to a missing ] in /usr/bin/mc-await-disconnect Sep 17 12:42:06 so how do I fix that? Sep 17 12:42:11 syntax errors in scripts in /usr/bin? Sep 17 12:42:36 is this on a n900? Sep 17 12:42:40 yes Sep 17 12:43:09 it's a binary file Sep 17 12:43:13 it can't have syntax errors Sep 17 12:43:14 yes :( Sep 17 12:43:18 you haven't done anything silly like swapped the default shell for bash? Sep 17 12:43:21 those must be coming from some shell script that it executes Sep 17 12:43:23 strace? Sep 17 12:43:35 there are scripts in /usr/bin IIRC Sep 17 12:43:43 I did install bash Sep 17 12:43:46 (true but irrelevant) Sep 17 12:45:54 using ash (default shell) I get the same error Sep 17 12:46:25 you can't run the normal scripts with bash Sep 17 12:46:28 they do not work Sep 17 12:46:33 Use the bu Sep 17 12:46:34 ah - k Sep 17 12:46:48 ? Sep 17 12:48:03 Work out where in the script the output about the error is after Sep 17 12:49:24 SpeedEvil: it's immediately after + exec /usr/bin/mc-await-disconnect Sep 17 12:49:46 I ge the same error from ifdown -a Sep 17 12:49:52 the error is the next line " sh: missing ] " Sep 17 12:50:36 yea - it seems to be part of the ifdown daemon Sep 17 12:51:58 * jpinx-eeepc is not even sure if this is the root of his problem with networking over usb Sep 17 12:52:08 i swear Sep 17 12:52:14 i'm getting rid of my N900 Sep 17 12:52:26 strace reveals /etc/network/if-post-down.d/zz_static_ip_if_down Sep 17 12:52:30 send it to me, oscillik! Sep 17 12:52:33 unless someone can let me know if you can clear the cache for the email application Sep 17 12:52:45 30 seconds to open an email is ridiculous Sep 17 12:52:47 Does iced tea ship with a microb plugin? Sep 17 12:52:53 hmm Sep 17 12:53:35 SpeedEvil: in the end we can't edit the binary Sep 17 12:54:42 does anyone know if it's possible to clear the cache for email? because i'm positive that's the problem Sep 17 12:54:54 the email application is snappy and fast within the first week of reflashing it Sep 17 12:55:04 after that, it just gets worse Sep 17 12:55:18 jpinx-eeepc: In trhe end, the error is clearly oming from a script that binary calls. You can fix it Sep 17 12:55:35 oscillik: Sorry - no clue - I've uninstalled modest. Sep 17 12:55:49 RST38h: do you know what X does with the remainder of the 1920k? given that its above 800*480*2. double/triple buffered? Sep 17 12:55:56 SpeedEvil: cool - which script ? :) Sep 17 12:56:10 thanks SpeedEvil, at least i now know that the N900 is a lost cause for me Sep 17 12:56:15 * jpinx-eeepc is a whole lot happier now that SpeedEvil has the same issue Sep 17 12:56:33 oscillik: send it to me ;) Sep 17 12:56:47 yeah sure, £300 please ;) Sep 17 12:57:21 seriously, at this point, i'm looking to part-exchange it at Computer Exchange for a Nexus One Sep 17 12:57:22 oscillik: 200 if it's still under warranty 6months Sep 17 12:57:51 jpinx-eeepc: strace Sep 17 12:58:44 SpeedEvil: hw does that parse? strace /etc/init.d/networking restart Sep 17 12:59:20 jpinx-eeepc: strace -f will follow forks and give you info on all scripts somethings calling Sep 17 13:00:08 SpeedEvil: ash: strace: not found Sep 17 13:00:18 apt-gret install strace Sep 17 13:00:26 yea Sep 17 13:00:37 http://maemo.org/packages/view/strace/ Sep 17 13:01:30 SpeedEvil: the problem is that my issue with networking means I can not get the n900 online to install :( Sep 17 13:01:30 Hmmm Sep 17 13:01:35 Eliminating dups is a pain Sep 17 13:01:54 dneary: there are packages for that Sep 17 13:02:33 jpinx-eeepc, It's concerning elections, tmp tokens, etc. Not quite the same thing :) Sep 17 13:03:01 jpinx-eeepc: setup usb networking Sep 17 13:03:11 SpeedEvil: that's what doesn't work Sep 17 13:03:40 I got it to work once, by some lucky fluke Sep 17 13:04:15 Or download the packages and install with dpkg Sep 17 13:04:54 SpeedEvil: yea - I can see this taking a bit of time, but thanks for the good pointers ;) Sep 17 13:05:03 I'll work on it now and see what happens Sep 17 13:05:10 all for a missing ] Sep 17 13:06:45 Also. Sep 17 13:06:53 It could be merely cosemetic. Sep 17 13:07:03 Don't assume that errors are rthe cause of it not working Sep 17 13:07:22 SpeedEvil: ok, somehow I managed to get device into a state where NOLO starts up and makes yellow flash, but actually no power taken from USB (=not charging). Had to remove battery to cure that Sep 17 13:07:24 SpeedEvil: I saidd that earlier Sep 17 13:07:29 If it works for most people, erros that are 'normal' may not be chased Sep 17 13:07:38 SpeedEvil: ping: sendmsg: Invalid argument Sep 17 13:07:38 DocScrutinizer: funky Sep 17 13:07:46 jpinx-eeepc: gotta be root Sep 17 13:07:52 I am ;) Sep 17 13:10:51 ~flatbatrecover Sep 17 13:10:51 Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover Sep 17 13:11:27 seems still OK Sep 17 13:19:40 anyway: U-mode is blocked in NOLO when battery is too low. So on bootloops having run flat the battery nothing will help except external charger Sep 17 13:20:03 esp since u-mode also does NOT charge Sep 17 13:21:16 DocScrutinizer51: Are you sure it doesn't charge? Sep 17 13:21:24 yes Sep 17 13:21:28 definitely Sep 17 13:21:36 DocScrutinizer51: Not that the CPU is spinning at full and the usb port hardware is up, which uses more than it charges? Sep 17 13:22:07 it's taking much less than 30mA from my USB charger Sep 17 13:22:21 probably zero Sep 17 13:22:33 Ok, that should be enough proof then. Sep 17 13:22:40 bug time Sep 17 13:23:08 When booted you will see a warning when you use more than you charge. Sep 17 13:23:14 X-Fade: last night it run flat while on charger in u-mode Sep 17 13:23:19 really flat Sep 17 13:23:39 like 3.05V cell voltage Sep 17 13:23:56 Ah, well not totally flat but close ;) Sep 17 13:24:27 yeah, hw cutout threshold Sep 17 13:24:30 My N800's battery was at 0.05V yesterday. Sep 17 13:24:39 It goes to 2780mV or so Sep 17 13:24:42 below 3V the hw won't start up Sep 17 13:24:49 SpeedEvil: from the laptop to the n900, why would I be getting "ping: sendmsg: Invalid argument" ? Sep 17 13:25:38 jpinx-eeepc: no route Sep 17 13:26:38 yeah - I mean still running Sep 17 13:27:08 2724 is the lowest I see on logs Sep 17 13:27:14 bme dead Sep 17 13:27:19 on a sidenote (for those interested): NOLO yellow flashing is an itsy tad dimmer than normal system notification for charging Sep 17 13:27:24 kerio: it's listed in /etc/network/interfaces as static with the right info, but comes up in route as "local-link" Sep 17 13:28:10 and as 192.168.2.0 Sep 17 13:36:07 jpinx-eeepc! Sep 17 13:37:55 hm, I don't think I can track down why the "Fn" and "Enter" key don't work as they should... perhaps the best would be just to play the original N810 image(s) back in? Sep 17 13:38:34 I'm sure it's some software-thing, because the keys trigger the clicking noise that the N810 makes when on keystrokes when the sound is on Sep 17 13:43:32 Bombs away Sep 17 13:43:40 Apologies for the delay Sep 17 13:44:36 CutMeOwnThroat: ! Sep 17 13:45:12 dneary: received Sep 17 13:45:19 cool Sep 17 13:45:53 Dups removed, but if you voted already you mighht still get a new voting token Sep 17 13:46:43 is it possible to disable virtual keyboard for certain apps? Sep 17 13:47:38 mine doesn't work for all apps anyway:/ Sep 17 13:48:33 I want to use qt4 and want the VK work for all apps except the one I'm developing now Sep 17 13:52:51 Can anybody help me with this problem? Sep 17 13:52:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62442 Sep 17 13:56:05 Too many people to vote for. Sep 17 13:58:44 good question Munkiii Sep 17 13:59:06 i guess nobody knows how? Sep 17 13:59:22 GAN900: agreed... and inconveniently, they're listed by name despite often being known by a handle Sep 17 14:01:30 ieatlint, handle is in the parens on the voting page. Sep 17 14:01:51 ah... i haven't logged in yet, just have the emails Sep 17 14:01:54 GAN900, http://maemo.org/vote/ Sep 17 14:01:57 ieatlint: Well if you aren't smart enough to spot the nick then you have other problems ;) Sep 17 14:02:07 theres a lot of good candidates in this election! Sep 17 14:02:10 X-Fade: you don't get my vote now :P Sep 17 14:02:31 ieatlint: Don't need your vote ;) Sole dictator role suits me a lot better :D Sep 17 14:03:09 haha Sep 17 14:03:16 Mmmm Sep 17 14:03:20 Seriously Sep 17 14:03:23 you'll have to share that with intel soon... i wish you luck Sep 17 14:03:30 kerio: ok - I have the usb local network working, but I can not get the n900 to connect by usb to the laptops wifi Sep 17 14:03:35 OK, first person to give me $20 gets my vote. Sep 17 14:03:52 zimbabwe dollars count Sep 17 14:03:52 ? Sep 17 14:04:04 No. Sep 17 14:04:07 US Sep 17 14:04:16 and you're not on the ballot Mr. MeeGo. Sep 17 14:04:21 you'd spend more than $20 trying to find a $20 zimbabwean note Sep 17 14:05:21 I really hate trying to figure who wont need my vote to get in. Sep 17 14:05:48 how many total members GAN900 Sep 17 14:06:15 5 seats, 10 candidates. Sep 17 14:06:25 jpinx-eeepc: enabled forwarding and nat or forwarding and bridging? Sep 17 14:06:35 what are a couple of priorities for the council that need promoting at this time? Sep 17 14:06:45 and the appropriate routing on the n900 Sep 17 14:07:00 and the fake tablet connectivity connection Sep 17 14:08:03 kerio: route on teh laptop shows the default route as my wifi - what esle is needed? Sep 17 14:08:16 enable forwarding, set up routing on the n900 itself Sep 17 14:08:18 one commenter thought the community was more "developer oriented" than "user oriented". That seems proper to me, since the main use of the community is supporting the platform via ports and development. Sep 17 14:08:23 i s'pose Sep 17 14:08:33 what users Sep 17 14:08:36 the n900 has no users Sep 17 14:09:10 kerio: route on teh n900 shows the laptop IP as default route Sep 17 14:09:11 haha, indeed Sep 17 14:09:43 pup Sep 17 14:09:57 pupnik_, lemmyslender is a little bit confused. Sep 17 14:10:15 But I see it as CONTRIBUTOR oriented. Sep 17 14:10:46 Which is neither exclusively developer- nor user-oriented. Sep 17 14:10:48 ok you're right, there are many important ways to contribute besides developing Sep 17 14:11:16 I think the point is that it's not really end-user oriented. Sep 17 14:12:01 Seriously, nobody knows anything? - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62442 Sep 17 14:12:24 Munkiii: Many people won't bother loading a random URL for what could be a stupid question. Sep 17 14:12:44 It's generally a good idea to give a sentance or two about the URL, and why we might be interested in loading it. Sep 17 14:12:56 Plus - the vast majority of people won't be able to anwer your question. Sep 17 14:13:08 You're just wastinge their rrime, and annoying them if you do that. Sep 17 14:15:47 kerio: got it working - thanks for the pointers :) Sep 17 14:16:13 Votes away Sep 17 14:16:18 * GAN900 crosses fingers. Sep 17 14:16:37 Ok, i am asking if anybody knows how to re-arrange desktops, i want to change the order of desktops around without manually removing all widgets and putting them back on other desktops. Sep 17 14:16:57 hahaha "too high temperature detected, flashlight disabled" Sep 17 14:17:06 DocScrutinizer: what's the temperature? Sep 17 14:17:33 dunno, 20s later system shut down due to low battery Sep 17 14:17:42 Everybody be sure to vote in the council election. Sep 17 14:18:12 also no idea which temperature the flashlight app is using to determine that Sep 17 14:18:29 Having a good voter turnout helps ensure a strong mandate for the next council (which gives a lot more clout with Nokia and MeeGo). Sep 17 14:19:22 everybody be sure to receive their token Sep 17 14:20:10 dneary resent this morning. Sep 17 14:20:55 umm ok, I'll check my mail Sep 17 14:21:11 GAN900, Correction: this afternoon Sep 17 14:21:55 dneary, your timezone is a lie. Sep 17 14:22:04 hey maemo guys :) Sep 17 14:24:23 'lo Sep 17 14:25:02 "After spending a few weeks with linux, using Windows NT and 98 felt like wearing a straightjacket riding down a steep hill in a baby-buggy" Sep 17 14:30:21 pupnik_, He means, "felt like fun" Sep 17 14:30:33 pupnik_, "felt like being alive again" Sep 17 14:31:56 SpeedEvil: ShadowJK: with bme stopped system shuts down hard on ~3.0V, For battery <3.0V emergency charging, on ~3.0V NOLO boots and starts sw controlled charging, on ~3.3V NOLO boots up act_dead system for normal charging Sep 17 14:34:21 dneary: mail made it thru spam filters :-) Sep 17 14:34:36 docscrutinizer: kewl Sep 17 14:35:09 dneary: :) i think it meant 'loss of control' of course Sep 17 14:36:56 dneary: thanks for sorting it Sep 17 14:40:31 pupnik_, Riding down a steep hill in a buggy with a straightjacket on sounds like fun to me Sep 17 14:40:35 I saw it on Jackass Sep 17 14:47:23 dneary, change the title of that thread "Voting tokens going out tomorrow" Sep 17 14:47:30 it keeps coming up at the top of my mailbox Sep 17 14:47:39 and I actually thought voting hadn't started! Sep 17 14:47:59 lcuk: OK, next time Ig to it Sep 17 14:48:37 \o Sep 17 15:22:43 ok, the deed is done. i will be Sep 17 15:22:53 exchanging my N900 tomorrow Sep 17 15:23:21 what caused that decision oscillik Sep 17 15:23:46 i have a spare BL-5J (N900) and BP-4L (E90) battery, if anyone wants them. £10 each Sep 17 15:23:53 pupnik_: the email client being absolute gash Sep 17 15:24:13 oscillik: And what are you getting instead? Sep 17 15:24:27 Nexus One Sep 17 15:25:11 oscillik: Does it do proper quoting? Sep 17 15:25:17 the slow performance and lack of features of the email client on the N900 is just too much to bare, for me personally anyways Sep 17 15:25:19 what does the email client on that do that the n900 doesn't? Sep 17 15:25:22 oscillik: Presumably, being Google Mail, it does proper conversations & threading Sep 17 15:25:23 bear Sep 17 15:25:38 and it doesn't take upwards of 30 seconds to 1 minute to open emails Sep 17 15:27:06 also, with the Nexus One, i don't have to rely on Nokia Messaging for "push" email Sep 17 15:27:26 So, now micro$oft 0wnz Nokia? Sep 17 15:28:01 lol wut? Sep 17 15:28:15 http://itfanat.com/7639.html Sep 17 15:29:11 erm, you DO know that guy was an ex-Microsoft employee, right? Sep 17 15:29:24 also, the english in that article is terrible Sep 17 15:29:36 my english is not better Sep 17 15:29:42 he was also employed by juniper, macromedia, and adobe Sep 17 15:29:52 do they all ownz microsoft *and* nokia?! Sep 17 15:30:12 if that guy can get some microsoft office support into nokia phones, i'll call it a win Sep 17 15:30:14 okay, I just hope that guy doesn't jump out of his pants when he hears "linux" Sep 17 15:30:30 yes, he's got to get behind meego - has he said anything about it? Sep 17 15:31:02 oscillik: here's a better english: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11257069 Sep 17 15:31:36 "He is leaving his current job as the head of Microsoft's Business Division after only 20 months with the US software giant." Sep 17 15:32:39 The Nexus One's screen sucks. Sep 17 15:32:55 the screen isn't that much of an issue for me Sep 17 15:33:16 what is an issue is the completely abhorrent performance of the email client Sep 17 15:34:39 So email client wasn't open-sourced apparently Sep 17 15:35:23 it is Sep 17 15:36:19 ping lcuk Sep 17 15:36:21 it is, but its 1) crap anyway and 2) crippled to worse than crap to the point where even just undoing half the limitations nokia's imposed is a boatload of unwanted hassle Sep 17 15:37:53 Woah, a 5M executable? Sep 17 15:38:01 I wonder why that's so big .. Sep 17 15:38:42 Hah, it's actually 6661KB .. Sep 17 15:39:54 Ah, without debugging symbols it's 216K Sep 17 15:40:05 I sail to get it why nobody has managed to plumb a demi decent GUI to a working existing mail client Sep 17 15:40:32 hi Sep 17 15:40:44 err fail Sep 17 15:41:13 and semi, ffs Sep 17 15:41:23 You're right, that was a fail ;) Sep 17 15:41:29 How can I play a a video streaming from http://tv.freebox.fr/iphone/france2.m3u8 ?I mean , which command do I need to write in terminal to launch the player ? Sep 17 15:41:35 Obviously you require a fail client :P Sep 17 15:42:14 I just have to make do with my old-ass e90 when i'm expecting to need serious mail while out anywhere Sep 17 15:43:42 Meh, I just use web interfaces tbh Sep 17 15:43:45 for sure I don't need a mail client on maemo - mail management is just a nightmare on a fullfeatured desktop mail client, with decent kbd and 21' screen Sep 17 15:44:32 well, there are varying degrees. I dont want or expect to be able to fully manage all aspects of my mail from a titchy little screen, i'd just love an imap client that actually works. Sep 17 15:44:37 some people have to use email intensely for work: i understand their frustration with Modest Sep 17 15:44:40 for that I have to turn back to symbian Sep 17 15:45:07 nidO: do you find that some symbian apps are faster to use than maemo equivalents? Sep 17 15:45:19 i'm thinking of the ui and menu structure Sep 17 15:45:25 and speed of doing various operations Sep 17 15:45:50 pupnik_: n900 is definitely not the right device for people doing large amounts of email, no matter which mailer they use Sep 17 15:45:54 yes, on my e90 specifically a good deal of real productivity-related stuff is much faster to do than on maemo Sep 17 15:46:20 both for ui reasons and also tbh the keyboard, the e90 version of which I can use infinitely faster than the n900's Sep 17 15:46:27 i found the e71 easy to learn and use without any study Sep 17 15:47:25 ProfiMail is, by far, the best mobile email client i have ever used Sep 17 15:47:27 perhaps the symbian folks at nokia should be engaged as meego-testers -- see what annoys them and you learn what symbian users are going to want out of the next-gen Sep 17 15:47:51 but even the standard built-in email client on Symbian is complete crap Sep 17 15:47:56 plus the n900 is just slower to respond in general than an e90 or most e-series symbian's - modest takes an age to list a mail folder, my e90's built-in client or profimail both display them basically instantly Sep 17 15:48:28 honestly who's claiming to do professional work on email on a 800x480, should get fired Sep 17 15:48:39 i'm not claiming to do professional work Sep 17 15:49:06 i'm just saying that in 2010, it is ridiculous to press the email notification (to open the email) and have to wait upwards of 1 whole minute for that email to open Sep 17 15:49:34 I claim that I do on my e90's 800x352 screen \o/ Sep 17 15:49:47 even my 1280x800 feels slow for mailer with those 400mails/day Sep 17 15:50:12 i wish I got that few :( Sep 17 15:50:17 slow to work on due to being small Sep 17 15:51:07 tbh screen size is going to always be a hinderance to getting stuff done, but that doesnt mean the software has to cripple it even further Sep 17 15:55:20 mece: I just uploaded a new version of my GPS app, if you're interested Sep 17 15:55:21 ack Sep 17 15:55:31 no doubt modest is modest Sep 17 15:55:57 alterego, cool.. we talking devel or that place you put that thing that time? Sep 17 15:56:06 Just the executable. Sep 17 15:56:09 k. Sep 17 15:56:13 Where I uploaded it last time. Sep 17 15:56:29 Still a couple of small things I want to tidy before I start publishing to extras Sep 17 15:57:26 k. Sep 17 15:57:46 This version requires qtm-systeminfo Sep 17 15:58:08 I'm having a bit of trouble with zooming a flickable area Sep 17 15:58:24 I used NumberAnimation to change scale Sep 17 15:58:32 Right Sep 17 15:58:50 Let me guess? Centering? Sep 17 15:58:55 uh-huh Sep 17 15:58:59 :) Sep 17 15:59:04 exactomundo. Got a solution for that? Sep 17 15:59:16 well it's scaling around center, naturally. Sep 17 15:59:24 Well, the only thing I can think of, is you need to modify the position proportional to the scale factor :/ Sep 17 15:59:46 yeah. Or the distance from the center poportional to the scale factor. Sep 17 15:59:48 is there any developers? maemo packaging drives me mad Sep 17 16:00:10 rmrfchik, what's the problem? It's main purpose is to make people mad it seems. Sep 17 16:00:13 I've not actually come across that issue, but I can see that as being a problem :) Sep 17 16:00:42 uh. Actually I have to go. The Horde need a feeding Sep 17 16:00:50 Okay, have fun :) Sep 17 16:00:52 bbl. Sep 17 16:01:00 I'm going out in 30 minutes so .. Sep 17 16:01:08 Talk to you soon ;) Sep 17 16:01:18 * hardaker hates packaging. .deb; .rpm; they all suck Sep 17 16:01:20 sigh. Sep 17 16:01:29 anyone have a solution to this one: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libval-threads.so.8: unexpected reloc type 0x03 Sep 17 16:01:42 mece: packaging removes "+x" from my binary. Sep 17 16:02:03 I don't want to put binary to /usr/bin as it root, I want to put it to /opt/maemo/usr/bin Sep 17 16:02:12 and when I do this, +x is removed Sep 17 16:03:04 Interesting .. Sep 17 16:03:31 How can I open a file with the media player ? Sep 17 16:04:13 just tried madde example. this put binary to root fs, insane Sep 17 16:04:41 debug goes into /usr/local yes Sep 17 16:04:49 Not sure why they changed that Sep 17 16:11:30 ~optification Sep 17 16:11:31 i guess optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs Sep 17 16:12:01 get /usr and /var sorted, nuke /opt Sep 17 16:13:39 I'm tempted to see what meego does for the optification problem aka root isn't 32G issue... Or mabby not Sep 17 16:18:38 Any hints on where to start to get familiar with NEON ? Sep 17 16:20:27 http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/09/17/is-designing-ui-simple-with-qt/ Sep 17 16:27:35 my /usr/bin has 340 true files and 432 links. either way it's odd Sep 17 16:30:47 files that are needed for boot first phase (until single user and mounting volumes) have to go to /bin, rather than /usr/bin (see FHS). Then the rest (the links) could stay in /usr/bin and whole /usr move to eMMC (that's what /usr is meant for) Sep 17 16:31:47 of course same applies to /usr/sbin Sep 17 16:43:42 DocScrutinizer: yeah but that would require having a clue Sep 17 16:59:21 Hiho Sep 17 16:59:56 kerio: there are enough people with a clue, but what's more problematic than any lack of expertise is implementing and deploying a painless migration path Sep 17 17:00:59 what's the nice term I heard recently? botch once, suffer many Sep 17 17:03:03 * DocScrutinizer wonders if eMMC VANILLA image file could get modified in a way it flashes /home partition only, keeping the VFAT partition untouched Sep 17 17:03:15 DocScrutinizer: let's hope meego doesn't do the same stupid shit Sep 17 17:05:12 what do you do when knowledgable people disagree about what would be stupid, kerio Sep 17 17:05:50 pupnik_: why, lock them in a cage and make them swallow a copy of the key each Sep 17 17:06:04 make them kill each other to get the key in their stomach Sep 17 17:06:11 the one that survives gets to decide Sep 17 17:06:28 kerio, that is stupid Sep 17 17:06:36 they'll gank up on one and kill him and get the key Sep 17 17:06:40 then the rest will leave Sep 17 17:06:48 MNZ: oh, we're talking about more than two people Sep 17 17:06:49 you are still left with more than one person to decide Sep 17 17:06:54 i see Sep 17 17:07:20 you could be a lawyer, MNZ Sep 17 17:07:28 I vote for a fiddle playing contest. A fiddle-off, if I may. Sep 17 17:07:37 May the best fiddler prevail! Sep 17 17:07:38 more than two knowledgeable people? o.O Sep 17 17:07:57 impossible Sep 17 17:08:51 imagining for a moment a powerful community council; how much of a factor should be "knowledge of maemo OS / APIs / apps" Sep 17 17:09:05 voting factor Sep 17 17:09:06 also we got another problem: who decides who's knowledgeable? The one Ć¼ber-knowledgeable? Sep 17 17:09:23 pupnik_, a lawyer.. probably not. But I'm enough of an a-hole to get myself out of a hypothetical situation such as the one kerio proposed. Sep 17 17:09:47 imagining each voter uses best of his/her knowledge DocScrutinizer - voting yields median opinion Sep 17 17:10:28 DocScrutinizer: "Ha. Well, that's a tricky one... I mean, who's qualified to judge something like that? This is the world's smartest man we're talking about here, so how can you tell? How can anyone tell if he's gone crazy?" Sep 17 17:10:37 aah I see, you're thinking about 5 people to swallow the key :-P Sep 17 17:12:11 honestly, sanitizing optification would be a really nice milestone for harmattan Sep 17 17:14:45 and to me at least it seems it's not really hard, if we can just rip out MyDocs partition from VANILLA image, and instead fill the former /home partition with /usr/[(s)bin,share,foo] /var and /home Sep 17 17:15:08 and then fix all the optified packages Sep 17 17:15:18 yeah Sep 17 17:15:48 I'm recommending for long now there MUST be a simple way to deoptify Sep 17 17:15:51 ~2119 Sep 17 17:15:52 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Sep 17 17:16:53 is anybody compiling their own kernel? Sep 17 17:17:32 I do. But it's the rather oooldddd maemo kernel, .28 Sep 17 17:18:05 for packages using the auto-optification option of buildhost (sorry if my wording is odd here, I got abscesses looking into it so am not really familiar with it) it should be rather simple to deoptify Sep 17 17:18:49 MNZ: but it's based on the debian package, right? not something close to mainline Sep 17 17:19:26 it's just mainline + nokia patches + 'debian' directory with the debian control files Sep 17 17:19:34 how 'close' to mainline do you need? Sep 17 17:19:49 MNZ: how many nokia patches? Sep 17 17:20:04 lol Sep 17 17:20:21 felipec, I have no idea. It's one big ass patch that comes with the package sources Sep 17 17:20:41 MNZ: right, that's what I thought... that's pretty far from upstream Sep 17 17:20:47 30k lines of code last I checked Sep 17 17:20:58 kewl Sep 17 17:21:05 er, 30k patches Sep 17 17:21:11 are you reaaally using mainline?? Sep 17 17:21:28 MNZ: yes, on the beagleboard Sep 17 17:21:34 err what? 30k files? with patches?? o.O Sep 17 17:21:40 * felipec checks Sep 17 17:22:29 * DocScrutinizer is checking number of inodes on his disk :-P Sep 17 17:22:47 * ShadowJK would prefer /usr/local or /usr/pkg instead of mixing base system with addon software all in /usr/* Sep 17 17:23:28 ShadowJK: hmm, debatable Sep 17 17:24:27 that way you could keep base on ubifs Sep 17 17:24:42 /usr/local usually is for locally build beta versions etc - rarely seen any binary public pkg installing there Sep 17 17:25:45 23k patches, 6 million lines of code Sep 17 17:25:51 anyway you for sure can do this, FHS is no law, it's a RFC which you can augment if you know what you're doing Sep 17 17:26:03 yeah well, given how fucking lazy people are, it's the default place stuff goes when running ./configure for most things :P Sep 17 17:26:25 /usr/pkg is used by all the bsds iirc Sep 17 17:26:30 felipec: FFS! :-O Sep 17 17:27:01 felipec, why were you asking anyway? Sep 17 17:27:25 MNZ: I want to switch development from beagleboard to an N900 Sep 17 17:27:31 Alright. Horde fed and put to bed. yay! Sep 17 17:28:16 felipec, and it doesn't boot, I assume. Sep 17 17:28:59 ShadowJK: nevertheless /usr is by definition a directory that MUST NOT be required to boot up the machine to single user Sep 17 17:29:56 ShadowJK: the whole and only purpose of /usr is to keep it on a separate drive that may fail and still system is maintainable by root via console Sep 17 17:30:28 MNZ: doesn't look like that... on a MeeGo system Sep 17 17:31:23 well with the security framework in place user's nuking their os will be reduced somewhat I'd think :D Sep 17 17:32:27 I'll rip out security framework and feed it to those introducing it to linux Sep 17 17:33:29 anyway, that's unrelated Sep 17 17:34:25 as "system can boot to single-user without /usr" means you're free to mount /usr later in boot process Sep 17 17:34:56 awesome, my gf broke fmms on her phone and now im guiding her in how to send me the log file over skype videochat... Sep 17 17:35:51 the maintainability of a system with borked /usr is just one of the side effects of the definition "/usr can live on a separate drive" Sep 17 17:36:28 I'm sure it was considered entirely irrelevant for n900, as / and /usr are on the same fs :) Sep 17 17:36:35 frals, you got a cute gf Sep 17 17:36:59 DocScrutinizer, What? Pics or it didn't happen! Sep 17 17:37:10 frals: Why don't you have ssh setup? :) Sep 17 17:37:12 shes very proud she understood the 'cp' command.. after having a fit because it was called.. well, cp Sep 17 17:37:15 mece: eh?? Sep 17 17:37:37 I hope /usr will be read-only in the future ;p Sep 17 17:37:41 SpeedEvil: i do, but i figured copying a file to mydocs and sending from desktop was easier than getting the ip from her Sep 17 17:37:42 DocScrutinizer, how else would you know she's cute? Sep 17 17:37:52 with a rw /usr/pkg or something for addon pkgs Sep 17 17:38:07 frals, she really needs to install personal ip widget, or whatever it's called. Sep 17 17:38:47 Docscrutinizer, what would be the issues in having the base system as is, and mounting a bigger fs onto it using mini_fo? Sep 17 17:39:00 DocScrutinizer: yes i do ;) Sep 17 17:39:05 mece: won't help neither on WLAN with NAT nor on GPRS Sep 17 17:39:43 fwiw it would help over gprs since her provides actually gives each device a proper ip without any nat/fw Sep 17 17:39:57 ShadSEC2: first: my lack to know what's mini_fo Sep 17 17:40:36 similar to unionfs... extenvensively used on OpenWRT Sep 17 17:40:50 ShadSEC2: second: the obvious complications in doing things not the age old proven standard way Sep 17 17:41:00 simple, lightweight... Sep 17 17:41:42 frals: that's quite unusual Sep 17 17:41:46 well, but it doesnt seem to be any perfect way yet, there is? Sep 17 17:41:49 DocScrutinizer, how does it not help on gprs? Sep 17 17:42:09 mece: see frals ^^^ Sep 17 17:42:14 DocScrutinizer: yeah, tele2 sweden is awesome.. no limit on mms size either :D Sep 17 17:43:01 saunalahti here and I have direct ip too. Very nice. Sep 17 17:44:01 ShadSEC2: move /usr and /var to eMMC and you're fine (after cleaning up the mess that's system init and optification now) Sep 17 17:45:12 ShadSEC2: there are some catches, e.g. system init using commands from /usr/(s)bin, which is clearly a (easy to fix) bug in system config Sep 17 17:46:35 honestly I guess I could sanitize the whole thing with ~5 cmdlines Sep 17 17:46:56 docscrutinizer, I havent checked what's currently on /usr from the base system.. but depending on that, it would mean moving those files to slower emmc Sep 17 17:47:10 but next apt-get install would possibly break the whole system Sep 17 17:47:36 using the transparent union would still benefit read speed from binaries on ubifs Sep 17 17:48:00 did we kill diasporas servers? Sep 17 17:48:12 that's an extremly sophisticated approach for a trivial problem Sep 17 17:48:17 washington was kinda nice this morning. Around noon it started lagging, and now it's gone. Sep 17 17:48:34 did anyone here try it? Sep 17 17:48:37 * GAN900 facepalms at Talk. Sep 17 17:48:48 bergie, apparently Neimen is a "he" now. Sep 17 17:48:54 but an extremely easy approach to implement too Sep 17 17:49:30 ShadSEC2: just move all those files you need on boot or need fast access to, from /usr/bin to /bin (same for sbin) and task accomplished for that part Sep 17 17:49:35 s/Neimen/Neiman Sep 17 17:50:24 ShadSEC2: uhuh, and how'd you handle updates of files living in "base system" /usr/bin ? Sep 17 17:51:01 Docscrutinizer, now that sounds much more complicated and prone to error... one of the beauty of the union approach is that you could always get rid of the overlay file and boot a perfectly clean new system Sep 17 17:51:38 docscrutinizer, you mean a PR update or something? Sep 17 17:51:43 how'd you handle files that get modifications during mini_fo mounted, but those mods needed during next boot early when it's not yet ? Sep 17 17:52:03 wtf have i done? lol Sep 17 17:52:42 boot to act_dead mode for updates :) Sep 17 17:53:08 they're bicentennial events anyway ;D Sep 17 17:53:11 ShadSEC2: honestly, a botch over a botch invented to fix a botch isn't a smart solution ever Sep 17 17:53:30 DocScrutinizer,mmm, it doesnt work that way.. either you boot with the overlay, or you boot with the original untouched os Sep 17 17:53:54 ShadSEC2: sorry you lost me Sep 17 17:53:56 well, probably not, i am just asking... it works so well in openwrt... Sep 17 17:54:35 I mean that IF there are modifications to base files, they will be lost if you boot without the overlay Sep 17 17:55:15 exactly, and you always boot without the overlay, as first and only thing bootloader passes to kernel is the rootfs Sep 17 17:55:19 probably that unaceptable Sep 17 17:57:22 whenever init system is able to mount the overlay, it as well can mount a simple classical /usr partition Sep 17 17:57:24 the idea is to boot with ubifs+overlay... always.. except IF you want to begin with a new clean system Sep 17 17:57:46 yes Sep 17 17:57:54 but, there are advantages Sep 17 17:58:10 GAN900: I can understand that people are confused as we usually represent ourselves as individuals in Maemo circles :-) But yeah, it is a company... http://nemein.com/en/ Sep 17 17:58:12 1) the original base is always there, untouched Sep 17 17:58:19 ShadSEC2: so how do you patch nolo to make it tell kernel to mount a rootfs that's actually a unionfs? Sep 17 17:58:45 (while I really doubt kernel can do that anyway) Sep 17 17:59:14 2) Not only you dont need to care about optifiying, you in fact dont need to care about some rogue program overfilling / with a log or something (Ie: fring... It was doing a huge log just in /) Sep 17 17:59:29 whatever, that's quite obviously a lot more complex than a /usr partition on eMMC Sep 17 17:59:40 sorry for my ignorance but.. what nolo? Sep 17 17:59:59 NOkia LOader Sep 17 18:00:08 it the bootloader or something? Sep 17 18:00:13 mmmmm Sep 17 18:00:35 So i guess it is closed and only boot from / ? Sep 17 18:02:41 what's the root= parameter to pass to kernel so it mounts a mini_fo as rootfs? what patches in kernel are needed to teach it to do that? Sep 17 18:03:23 I don't see the whole thing fly Sep 17 18:03:42 bergie, at least 4 spellings in the thread, too. Sep 17 18:03:52 bergie, glad you saw it, anyway. Sep 17 18:05:27 GAN900: if I were starting business now, I'd choose an easier name ;-) Sep 17 18:05:34 docscrutinizer, let me look for it, it has been some time i dont play with that in openwrt Sep 17 18:06:27 but if memory doesnt fail, i think it was probably doing part of the boot from real / and then doing a remount Sep 17 18:06:32 better let me check... Sep 17 18:09:07 ShadSEC2: that's exactly what I expected and answered above all the time. You never boot with mini_fo, you never know for sure if files are accessed old version before it is mounted later, you always can mount /usr same moment mini_fs is mounted Sep 17 18:09:55 so mini_fs isn't really a simpler solution than a /usr partition Sep 17 18:10:40 yes, it boots from a squashfs (READ ONLY), later in the boot sequence mounts another partition and then call fopivot that presents / as the combination of the squashfs + overlay Sep 17 18:11:42 docscrutinizer, yes Sep 17 18:11:47 nice overkill for optification sanitising Sep 17 18:12:22 docscrutinizer, but the two advantages i said before are valuable i think Sep 17 18:12:31 sure Sep 17 18:13:12 has anyone had experience with kexec on the maemo kernel? How reliable has it been? Sep 17 18:13:53 anyway, whatever the solution, one is needed Sep 17 18:13:53 afaik it doesn't work at all Sep 17 18:14:16 its incredible a simple package as screen isnt available even in extras-devel, to say just one example Sep 17 18:16:08 DocScrutinizer51: ok thanks. I have a kernel with it enabled, and cross-compiler the user utils but could get it to do anything other than hang, and wasnt ure it ifs me or not :) Sep 17 18:17:02 *cross compiled *couldn't *sure <-- typing skills ftw Sep 17 18:17:45 well apt-cache tells me there's kexec. So maybe the's obsolete info Sep 17 18:21:48 bergie, I'll admit to having to google the spelling once every few months or so. *g* Sep 17 18:22:03 ShadSEC2: it's in tools Sep 17 18:22:16 yes Sep 17 18:22:28 but the point is it is not in extras-devel Sep 17 18:22:38 and it is not optified at all Sep 17 18:22:41 it works ok though Sep 17 18:22:50 well do it then! Sep 17 18:22:50 Any packagers around? I had a repo setup and automated scripts that worked fine a month ago, now when I run the scripts I get "dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: control file must have at least one binary package part" Sep 17 18:23:06 I did, but my program depends on screen Sep 17 18:23:36 and anyways, its just an example Sep 17 18:24:15 of a basic program, that compiles straightforward, and it is not even availabe in extras-devel Sep 17 18:27:15 It's as simple as nobodies bothererd to upload it. Sep 17 18:27:19 And package Sep 17 18:28:44 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42357 Sep 17 18:28:47 damn.. fingered it out.. scratchbox needs a space before the Package line... doubleyouteeeff Sep 17 18:28:48 Freaking lemmings... Sep 17 18:29:12 yes, because with the current setup it is needed that someone installs the scratchbox, learn how to use it, how to package, and all that is because of the optifiying need Sep 17 18:29:14 "@rewt thats freeking great so I can use my 4GB Micro SD as 4GB of RAM!!!!" Sep 17 18:30:21 RST38h, the clear answer is: "Yes, yes you can." Sep 17 18:30:59 muhahaha Sep 17 18:31:17 GAN: The clear answer is Sep 17 18:32:19 The clear answer is use an 80GB swap file over an NFS mounted partition Sep 17 18:32:26 they are better for sending messages through time Sep 17 18:32:38 MNZ, that's something I wanted to try :) Sep 17 18:32:50 perforated tape sounds like a better swap media Sep 17 18:32:55 Beyond a certain point of IO pressure, I think it would be faster Sep 17 18:33:10 if the host was using a desktop class harddrive, or had plenty of ram even Sep 17 18:33:12 faster than uSD, yes Sep 17 18:33:21 or emmc Sep 17 18:33:35 ShadowJK:compcache. compcache. Sep 17 18:33:38 not so sure if swap on nfs is deadlock safe though Sep 17 18:33:48 Hey, dont laugh, but sometime I was doing swap onto a cifs mounted file on openwrt Sep 17 18:33:54 I have swapped over wifi. Sep 17 18:33:57 Worked well for me Sep 17 18:34:03 it was like 10 times faster than swapping to sd Sep 17 18:34:11 no wonder... Sep 17 18:35:13 (the sd was driven using only three gpios, so it was REALLY SLOW in firs tplace) Sep 17 18:35:53 muir Sep 17 18:37:01 hallo Sep 17 19:26:24 "The good news is that in 1995 we will have a good operating system and programming language; the bad news is that they will be Unix and C++." Sep 17 19:33:52 "...and the code will be portable because it is written on top of a virus." Sep 17 19:38:19 the code will be written BY virii Sep 17 19:39:14 Not in 1995. Sep 17 19:40:18 * GAN900 chuckles at the HDCP key Sep 17 19:40:28 It's the HD-DVD fiasco all over again. Sep 17 19:41:19 Lawyers vs. Reality Sep 17 19:41:46 BTW, I am sure this will end with a police state, all to prevent you from stealing the latest Disney abomination Sep 17 19:44:53 Not likely in the US. Sep 17 19:45:14 Things will break here before it gets to that point. Sep 17 19:45:14 Definitely likely in the US Sep 17 19:45:23 But yes, that is one possibility Sep 17 19:50:26 meh highly unproductive day, time for something productive, aka sleep Sep 17 19:50:29 night folks Sep 17 19:51:36 Hi Sep 17 20:11:17 RST38h, too many armed people not interested in putting up with shenanigans like that. Sep 17 20:11:37 RST38h, far more than you would believe if your sample size is "US cities". ;) Sep 17 20:24:27 http://gizmodo.com/5640898/this-is-how-angry-birds-would-look-on-blackberry Sep 17 20:29:11 RST38h, :D awesome Sep 17 20:33:29 so Sep 17 20:33:53 cross compiling Sep 17 20:33:59 i cant do it Sep 17 20:34:08 get angry first Sep 17 20:34:12 heh Sep 17 20:34:49 so you do know does native compiling on n900 have much overhead, cpu rape, etc Sep 17 20:34:58 sure Sep 17 20:35:08 my apps compile from source on n900 in about 10 seconds Sep 17 20:35:26 thats c source Sep 17 20:35:37 takes longer as more libs and dependencies are needed Sep 17 20:35:58 and like additional libs, etc dont take up loads of rootfs and other space Sep 17 20:36:12 yes they sure do Sep 17 20:36:25 so keep things small and light Sep 17 20:36:34 thats what i wanted to avoid Sep 17 20:36:47 i just optified the include folder Sep 17 20:37:06 did that help? Sep 17 20:37:26 but really a build of "build-essential" should be made to be optified - so gcc etc was also optified Sep 17 20:37:39 mc_teo`, i built on my n900 from day 1 with it Sep 17 20:38:05 i need to go back to doing that soon Sep 17 20:38:05 so it is optified, or should be? Sep 17 20:38:11 no mc_teo` Sep 17 20:38:36 isnt there like a vm image somewhere with it all working? Sep 17 20:38:41 yes Sep 17 20:38:43 scratchbox Sep 17 20:39:07 i use windows Sep 17 20:39:10 if you have ubuntu its pretty much painless if networks are happy Sep 17 20:39:25 windows there is an out of date vmware image Sep 17 20:39:42 i can use ubuntu on vmware, if it makes much difference Sep 17 20:39:50 its good to get started with, but the scratchbox inside needs updating Sep 17 20:40:39 anyway, i am sure someone else will show you where the oldish vmware image is, it seems theres a problem with a newer image being missing Sep 17 20:40:49 i tihnk someone said they were going to have a go at updating it Sep 17 20:40:56 * lcuk goes n codes Sep 17 20:41:23 ~optify Sep 17 20:41:30 ~optification Sep 17 20:41:30 methinks optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs Sep 17 20:41:48 ~botsnack Sep 17 20:41:49 kerio: thanks Sep 17 20:42:15 ~nokia Sep 17 20:42:15 rumour has it, nokia is a cellphone company from Finland. Sep 17 20:42:19 :-) Sep 17 20:42:23 ~finland Sep 17 20:42:23 finland is, like, some bloody scandinavian icicle, or nice place to live in :} Sep 17 21:00:59 Can you sort phone contacts into different groups on N900? Sep 17 21:01:46 Also, how do I save the phonebook onto the SIM card? Sep 17 21:05:18 moin Sep 17 21:16:42 ~optification Sep 17 21:16:42 methinks optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet one, two Sep 17 21:20:22 Doc, do you currently have that way implemented on your phone? Sep 17 21:21:08 moved the /usr I mean Sep 17 21:27:18 nope, as this requires editing the system init files, which in turn may break my system any time on arbitrary updates via SSU Sep 17 21:35:31 Docscrutinizer I havent checked that but, aren't those ssu's very infrequent? and couldnt you just check what it will be affected beforehand? Sep 17 21:36:33 btw, there are lots of binaries in usr that really should be on fast media (ie Xorg) Sep 17 21:38:18 I have been shocked after seeing how many extras-devels programs are there (without simlink to /opt)... Isn't people suppossed not doing that? Sep 17 21:40:30 can I put maemo 5 on my n810? Sep 17 21:42:46 Greetings. Anyone here understand the arcanum of .rtcom-eventlogger/el.db? Sep 17 21:43:15 I want to do a select on the SMS messages in the database to see the latest one... Sep 17 21:48:37 adna: select * from Events where event_type_id=7; Sep 17 21:49:14 you can order by start/end/storage_time and limit then. Sep 17 21:57:00 pH5: Thanks! So event_type_id 7 is SMS? Sep 17 21:58:26 pH5: I can't seem to find a clear description of how to query the database. Sep 17 22:00:48 pH5: ...and the difference between el.db and el-v1.db..? Is there a lucid source describing this online? Sep 17 22:08:01 v1 is the new one post-pr1.2 I believe Sep 17 22:08:29 7=sms I got from the EventType table. Sep 17 22:09:08 in general, .tables and select * from sqlite_master; were useful sqlite3 commands Sep 17 22:12:09 hi. is privoxy available for n900? where? Sep 17 22:13:10 its not available for fremantle Sep 17 22:19:11 * mikeos_away is away: Gone away for now Sep 17 22:20:22 ShadSEC2: (fast media) It seems to me you're mixing two things: ELF on fast storage, and the loaded program's execution speed. Those are largely unrelated. Esp X I'd guess is just loaded to ram *once* and then it's mostly as irrelevant as it gets how far the storage is where the X ELF had been Sep 17 22:21:58 docscrutinizer time for full boot is important Sep 17 22:22:09 ooh really? Sep 17 22:22:32 more important than a clean rootfs with some free space? Sep 17 22:22:45 you mean it wont really matter loading Xorg from emms than unifs? Sep 17 22:22:56 probable there wont be much difference on second thought Sep 17 22:23:20 exactly for X i'd guess it will slow down boot by maybe 2s and doesn't matter at all during normal operation Sep 17 22:23:34 I fully agree that there needs to be a solution that avoids the absurd optifying thing Sep 17 22:23:40 probably less than 2s Sep 17 22:24:56 for me, whatever the solution that solves it, its ok... everything will be better than me having to do most of the stuff on a chroot to dont break base os Sep 17 22:25:27 and also the availability of apps would improve LOTS Sep 17 22:27:26 nite all, sweet dreams Sep 17 22:30:44 for really time critical executables that for whatever reason must stay in /usr/bin and can't go to /bin (which is stll / !) you can have a symlink from /usr/bin to any arbitrary folder on NAND (how's about /opt :-P ), which would keep the executable on same "fast" storage it is now. No reason to keep whole /usr on NAND and symlink 2/3 of the files to /opt because on NAND there's just no space Sep 17 22:31:04 let's call it "speedification" :-P Sep 17 22:31:35 DocScrutinizer: why would you need something like that Sep 17 22:31:47 on contrary to ptification you need to speedify only very few selected pkgs Sep 17 22:32:10 kerio: I don't. ShadSEC2 does, it seems Sep 17 22:32:19 i'd say we abuse /usr/local/ Sep 17 22:32:36 /usr/local/ on NAND, /usr/ on eMMC Sep 17 22:32:37 like what? Sep 17 22:32:45 Docscrutinizer, but doing that, unless it is done and supported by nokia, its complex enough to be prone to "compability" (ie breakage) problems Sep 17 22:32:48 ok, feasible Sep 17 22:33:06 i'm still not convinced that packages should need to be on the NAND Sep 17 22:33:15 need? not Sep 17 22:33:15 wtf are you running Sep 17 22:33:16 ShadSEC2: see my post some 30 lines above Sep 17 22:33:27 then it's meaningless Sep 17 22:33:43 have the executables you need to boot on /bin/ and mount /usr/ from the eMMC Sep 17 22:33:59 /home/ should be another partition on the eMMC, btw Sep 17 22:34:05 and drop that MyDocs crap Sep 17 22:34:13 Yes, you say it is not needed to "speedify" and probably you are right Sep 17 22:36:09 all faintly time critical binaries are preloaded anyway, and fixed to RAM so they won't swap out (another thing that needs review) Sep 17 22:36:24 with what? the sticky bit? Sep 17 22:36:29 i thought that never worked on linux Sep 17 22:36:35 I think MyDocs crap is because nokia thinks all user stuff should be available for direct mount on windows by usb Sep 17 22:36:53 it's not sticky bit, it's some other special thing I forgot about Sep 17 22:36:57 ShadSEC: well that means that nokia is full of shit, isn't it Sep 17 22:37:25 there were a thousand better ways to do that Sep 17 22:37:38 yep, but they dont really intended this to be truly open, i guess it was just a side effect... Sep 17 22:37:54 huh? it's the successor of the N8x0 Sep 17 22:38:09 it was never meant to be a phone for users, come on Sep 17 22:39:12 the user niche of the n900 are hardcore lunix users who want a cool, powerful toy with linux to hack and watch cat videos on youtube Sep 17 22:39:16 (oversimplifying) Sep 17 22:39:24 *on Sep 17 22:39:25 well, if they intended it, they failed in things could have been done better for that Sep 17 22:39:33 well of course they did Sep 17 22:40:08 namely, the optification, the fact that mydocs is vfat, bme, pulseaudio (and the binary filters)... Sep 17 22:41:20 I lost 3 days just trying to figure out how to manage wlan0... and even if I have, it has been having to accept i2d and wlancond are really in control of it... that's not what I would name OPEN Sep 17 22:41:28 and it's *still* the best smartphone/tablet on the market... Sep 17 22:41:51 so shame on you, Nokia Sep 17 22:41:59 for the mydocs being vfat is not so bad Sep 17 22:42:02 shame for making such an awesome device with this stupid, stupid bugs Sep 17 22:42:14 vfat is about the only truly cross platform filesystem, sad as it is Sep 17 22:42:18 well, not exactly bugs Sep 17 22:42:28 wmarone: sshfs is cross platform Sep 17 22:42:28 in my tests, mounting loop files barely adds any overhead in comparison to directly mouting a partition Sep 17 22:42:30 and open Sep 17 22:42:42 sshfs isn't available by default on Windows Sep 17 22:42:48 you still have the image size limit though Sep 17 22:42:50 who cares Sep 17 22:42:58 kerio: I do Sep 17 22:43:03 wow Sep 17 22:43:16 and yes, it is the best smartphone/whatever in the market Sep 17 22:43:26 wmarone: so download psftp Sep 17 22:43:35 Robot101: :-D Sep 17 22:43:42 why, when wifi is slower than USB transfer? Sep 17 22:43:57 my only choice.. and in fact it is as near to perfection that precisely that is what bothers me more... with just a few flaws being corrected it would be Sep 17 22:43:59 usb networking Sep 17 22:44:05 DocScrutinizer: I remember why I quit this channel :P Sep 17 22:44:13 not supported by default on windows :P Sep 17 22:44:20 Robot101: it's not really bad Sep 17 22:44:28 they just got their 5 min Sep 17 22:44:35 Robot101: I had my 5 min before Sep 17 22:44:39 i'm just mad at nokia :( Sep 17 22:44:53 DocScrutinizer: yeah but when I'm in bed on my N900 and I get tempted to join in... :P Sep 17 22:45:23 says enough about quality and usability of device :-) Sep 17 22:46:14 fine to read nonsense on irc and /part - not good enough to try and speak sense - seems to make my life better imo :) Sep 17 22:46:16 Robot101: ...so stay with us a bit longer, it'll get better soon :-) Sep 17 22:47:10 I'll sleep on it :D Sep 17 22:47:13 'night Sep 17 22:47:30 did i scare him away? i didn't mean to do that :( Sep 17 22:47:44 Robot101: I suggested to fix the eMMC VANILLA image file so it only flashes /home partition while leaving VFAT untouched Sep 17 22:49:15 this would allow to ship rootfs COMBINED with matching /opt binaries (or whatever you call the directory then) Sep 17 22:49:51 Robot101: topic "how to get rid of optification" Sep 17 22:51:09 anyway, also 'night Sep 17 22:51:17 or ttyl Sep 17 22:51:27 'night :) Sep 17 22:53:10 http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/nokias-plug-and-touch-turns-your-hdtv-into-a-giant-n8-video/ cute tricks with n8 Sep 17 22:54:05 but... does it blend? Sep 17 22:57:01 feels like lcuk invented it Sep 17 22:58:10 but then you'd probably have to place the N8 5 feet away _on top of a bacon_ :-D Sep 17 23:08:55 :( Sep 17 23:08:56 :) Sep 17 23:11:52 Hello Sep 17 23:12:01 any clues about a N900 succesor? Sep 17 23:13:05 a new model (may be the word succesor doesn't exist XD) Sep 17 23:13:48 There are various assorted new models of phone - but nothing really a direct successor. Sep 17 23:14:32 rumour has it there'll be a N9 Sep 17 23:15:03 ok Sep 17 23:15:35 seems to me that nokia still doesn't make a bet for maemo devices Sep 17 23:15:36 but not anything to hold your breath and keep your purse closed, if you consider getting a maemo phone Sep 17 23:15:39 or meego... Sep 17 23:16:32 so N900 still the best maemo phone for some time... Sep 17 23:16:40 yep Sep 17 23:16:50 too bad... Sep 17 23:17:02 nah, just good enough Sep 17 23:17:18 are you in europe? Sep 17 23:17:22 switching to meego's slowed them down a bit, plus apparently the hardware people pick what OS they want to use inside nokia, not the other way around Sep 17 23:17:23 yes Sep 17 23:18:18 AirBender: why? need a cdma phone? Sep 17 23:18:38 I was preparing myself to buy an N900 Sep 17 23:19:16 then I checked the broadband bands available in N900 Sep 17 23:19:20 and end of story Sep 17 23:19:31 I needed 1900 MHz Sep 17 23:19:36 and it has 1700 Sep 17 23:19:58 eeek, third world aka USA? Sep 17 23:20:27 third world aka Southamerica very similar to USA in spectrum usage Sep 17 23:20:35 :nod: Sep 17 23:20:41 Chile Sep 17 23:20:52 that's really not nice then Sep 17 23:20:58 yes Sep 17 23:21:04 tbh EDGE isn't THAT bad Sep 17 23:21:22 yes, but I want HSXPA Sep 17 23:21:56 yup, then you are quite out of luck Sep 17 23:22:03 unfortunately Sep 17 23:22:18 buy expensive proprietary crap build to order for Chile carriers Sep 17 23:22:22 I'm waiting for a new >= N900 device with different modem Sep 17 23:23:19 may be it's just better to wait for something LTE Sep 17 23:23:32 unlikely there'll ever be any. GSM Cert is expensive, and if it's a smal market and also a niche product Sep 17 23:24:03 LTE might come, in a few years, yes Sep 17 23:24:31 Also for various reasons, multiband is getting cheaper Sep 17 23:24:34 which can help Sep 17 23:24:39 and also Chile might decide to do their own proprietary nonstandard thing once again Sep 17 23:25:34 SpeedEvil: you always need to do the cert for 1900 UMTS separately, which will cost $$$$$($) Sep 17 23:25:40 viva Chile Sep 17 23:25:44 nm me Sep 17 23:27:21 SpeedEvil: probably rapuyama even would be technically capable of 1900 UMTS Sep 17 23:28:34 What version of bluez does PR1.2 have? Sep 17 23:28:47 and is there a site where I can check these things? Sep 17 23:29:20 oh Sep 17 23:29:24 sorry Sep 17 23:29:28 http://maemo.org/packages/view/bluez/ Sep 17 23:29:38 :-D Sep 17 23:29:49 I feel so stupid Sep 17 23:29:54 nah Sep 17 23:47:43 hi Sep 17 23:48:39 hi Sep 17 23:49:16 is there a way i can tether a mobile phone TO the N900, using the phone as a modem for the N900? Sep 17 23:49:58 probably Sep 17 23:50:05 try with bluetooth Sep 17 23:50:42 N900 had to die on the last day of the week. Sep 17 23:50:44 What timing. Sep 17 23:51:35 GeneralAntilles: heh :( Sep 17 23:51:47 Well, new one should be here Monday. Sep 17 23:53:39 good luck Sep 17 23:54:07 Appiah, whatd oes bluez do? Sep 17 23:55:00 it's the name of the bluetooth stack on linux, no? Sep 17 23:57:43 what does bluez do? Sep 17 23:59:08 It's dead, Jim :-S Sep 17 23:59:40 GeneralAntilles: what did you do? Sep 18 00:03:39 lolloo: bluetooth Sep 18 00:10:15 ok, they are paired and the mobile is on remote soim mode, what now? Sep 18 00:11:30 sim* Sep 18 00:18:47 do i need to install anhything to enable teethering ingternet FROM a mobile phone TO the N900? Sep 18 00:20:38 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58570 TiagoTiago Sep 18 00:20:39 but Sep 18 00:20:59 you'd need to do it the other way round, and the stack won't know how to deal with it Sep 18 00:21:21 so it's not possible? Sep 18 00:22:43 I've not investigated it. Sep 18 00:23:13 hm, there is a link for doing it backwards in that thread Sep 18 00:26:44 Neat Sep 18 00:27:07 In principle it's just another linux box, and you can configure the routes as you'd like. Sep 18 00:27:19 In practice, ICD and wlandconfd get intheway Sep 18 00:27:47 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking Sep 18 00:27:53 some info also in there Sep 18 00:38:49 where in that page? Sep 18 00:40:44 ah, the part about installing the dummy/null from -devel? Sep 18 00:42:22 yeah Sep 18 00:58:34 would it be possible to tune the N900 camera to not show dark bands when shooting a CRT screen? Sep 18 00:59:42 Generally not. Sep 18 01:00:13 The problem is that much of the light of a CRT is emitted immediately as the electron beam strikes it. Sep 18 01:00:25 What may work is using fcam Sep 18 01:00:30 set the gain to minimum Sep 18 01:01:55 i mean tune the timming so it opens the "shutter' when the screen starts to be scanned, then closes when it finishes, and the dark band is always between frames Sep 18 01:02:09 Doesn't work like that Sep 18 01:02:35 The CRT is continually painted from top to bottom. Sep 18 01:03:05 isn't the dark band the period between the last pixel and the first pixel? Sep 18 01:03:08 If you look at it in any 1/1000th of a second interval, you'll see one bright horizontal line, with the rest of the picture comparatively dim Sep 18 01:03:20 i know Sep 18 01:03:39 The rolling shutter on the camera will also not typically 'roll' at exactly 50/60hz per screen height Sep 18 01:03:45 but the dark band isn't when the last line is scanned and the first is about to be? Sep 18 01:04:08 hm Sep 18 01:04:10 It's an interaction between the rolling shutter, and the brightly illuminated line Sep 18 01:04:18 Try for example taking a pic rotated 90 degrees. Sep 18 01:04:24 rolling scan, i see Sep 18 01:04:49 you can't have all the lines of the sensor sensing at once Sep 18 01:04:59 The rolling shutter on the camera has a certain number of lines 'active' at once. Sep 18 01:05:18 These are all integrating light, for the exposure time that is desired. Sep 18 01:06:04 If the frame is read out in 1/5th of a second, is 1000 pixels high, and you need a 1/500th second shutter. Sep 18 01:07:01 Then initially lines 1-10 are enabled, and allowed to expose for 1/500th of a second. Then line 1 is read out, and line 11 starts exposure. Sep 18 01:07:19 Every 1/5000th of a second, another line is read out, and another starts exposure. Sep 18 01:08:39 Fcam may be adequate - if you turn the brightness down - if you can - or use a neutral density filter - sunglasses may work - and turn the gain down with fcamera - ISO. Sep 18 01:09:12 I don't have a CRT plugged in ATM, so I can't play. Sep 18 01:13:09 so far my tests with Fcamera seems to indicate it's higly dependent on the position of the camera (or the screen in relation to the camera), a setting that keeps the screen fully painted also makes it completly dark if you tile the camera jsut a tad Sep 18 01:14:06 tilt* Sep 18 01:14:11 i am looking for a user agent for firefox on n900? Sep 18 01:14:35 and it gets all stripey if i take a picture :/ Sep 18 01:17:19 hmm Sep 18 01:17:36 The ISO may actually wind down the rolling shutter, which may make things eorrse. Sep 18 01:17:46 :/ Sep 18 01:17:49 I guess the only option is a neutral density filter. Sep 18 01:27:51 "Know ye not, who would be free themselves must strike the blow?" - Lord Byron Sep 18 01:28:51 iƤ! - h.p. lovecraft Sep 18 01:32:10 wait, does it require a PC to tether a cellphone to the N900? Sep 18 01:41:03 not over the hotspot app TiagoTiago_ Sep 18 01:41:22 Anyone around who can help me reflash my N900? Sep 18 01:41:29 i need it over bluetooth, the cellphone is a N73, no wifi there :/ Sep 18 01:42:04 just to report in from the other side: jailbreaking iphones/ipods is a world of pain Sep 18 01:42:26 ahynes1: what kind of help do you need? Sep 18 01:42:36 ~flashing Sep 18 01:42:36 [flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 18 01:42:40 See that ahynes1 Sep 18 01:42:41 Well, I've been running power kernel for a while... Sep 18 01:42:46 and though I complain about maemo sometimes, it beats the hell out of the alternatives for people who want to hack up their phone Sep 18 01:42:58 and I tried installing multiboot power kernel and it won't boot... Sep 18 01:44:04 I've read that I should be able to just flash the kernel and get in, Sep 18 01:44:30 johnx: can you download apps to a jailbroken ithing? Sep 18 01:47:19 pupnik_: yeah. kinda, I guess Sep 18 01:47:30 I'm actually jailbreaking them from work to *remove* functionality Sep 18 01:47:42 s/from/at/ Sep 18 01:47:42 johnx meant: I'm actually jailbreaking them at work to *remove* functionality Sep 18 01:48:08 bad functionality johnx ? Sep 18 01:48:39 don't want the employees using the work WiFi to surf for porn? Sep 18 01:49:05 We use them as kind of 'kiosk' style devices for playing videos. And our users are customers. And those customers are actually teenagers. Sep 18 01:49:13 We really just want it to play video Sep 18 01:49:22 lol Sep 18 01:49:57 there is probably a cheaper way to get videoscreens Sep 18 01:50:12 i was just about to say... Sep 18 01:50:13 Quick question: IIRC the N810 will run from the charger without a battery inserted, but is there any reason why I should not do that? Sep 18 01:50:15 Don't even ask me why we're using those things, it was made before I was even an employee Sep 18 01:50:27 jaem: it won't run without the battery Sep 18 01:50:29 AFAIK Sep 18 01:50:36 johnx: I' Sep 18 01:50:49 I'm fairly certin it does, but I haven't tried in over a year. Sep 18 01:51:00 * jaem is having a bad typing day :/ Sep 18 01:51:23 jaem: I'd be interested to hear your results. I could test an N800 here if your N810 isn't close by Sep 18 01:51:24 What I was wondering was whether it would be problematic to do so if it /is/ possible Sep 18 01:51:44 johnx: Sure, although I'll check my N810 now too. Sep 18 01:52:07 if it actually works, then no, I don't see a reason, because it means they made specific provisions to let it run without the battery Sep 18 01:52:51 johnx: Use-case is that I have it in the car-mount, strapped to my equipment rack, and I want to have it always-on as a quick feeds/messages/todos screen in my room. Sep 18 01:53:04 No need for a battery in that case, since it will always be plugged in. Sep 18 01:53:26 well, you need the battery because it won't run without one ;) Sep 18 01:53:31 * johnx just tested his N800 Sep 18 01:54:04 It won't /turn on/ without a battery, but it won't turn /off/ when you remove it - at least, not yet. Sep 18 01:54:07 if yuo pull the battery while plugged tot he wall? Sep 18 01:54:08 * jaem just tested his Sep 18 01:54:16 k Sep 18 01:54:32 johnx: It looks like it wasn't meant to be done, at least, though. Sep 18 01:55:15 Is it going to harm the battery, though? I assume it just runs from the charger once the battery is fully charged, right? Sep 18 01:55:52 a while ago i was told that even if the N900 stayed running with just the wall there was still the risk that when it gets busy it will need energy faster than the wall provides Sep 18 01:56:28 TiagoTiago_: That is possible in general, but I can't speak to these specific cases. Sep 18 01:56:45 I know that happens sometimes when plugged into a laptop, but the wall charger provides >=2x the current. Sep 18 01:57:01 I would think that it would be designed for that not to be an issue. Sep 18 01:58:21 Ah, well. I 'll worry about it later Sep 18 01:58:23 Cheers Sep 18 01:59:14 cya Sep 18 02:01:57 do i need a PC in order to use a mobile phone as modem for the n900? Sep 18 02:02:27 eh? you want to use another phone as a modem for the N900? Sep 18 02:02:39 yep Sep 18 02:02:51 a N73 to be specific Sep 18 02:03:05 bluetooth? wifi? Sep 18 02:03:12 bt Sep 18 02:03:20 N73 ddon't got WiFi Sep 18 02:04:34 well, I bet it's *possible* Sep 18 02:04:59 you'd need to configure BT DUN by hand, somehow and stop ICD from interfering I think Sep 18 02:05:21 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37710 Sep 18 02:06:01 i'm not sure exactly what i'm supposed to do though Sep 18 02:06:27 you're supposed to guess and test, then write a wiki page to help others :) Sep 18 02:06:32 and it seems i might need a PC to work as a middleman between the two devices Sep 18 02:06:41 It's one of these in principle possible things. Sep 18 02:06:47 probably don't need the PC Sep 18 02:06:56 you just need the bnep0 device to be up Sep 18 02:07:12 but i'm not understand what they are saying i should do completly Sep 18 02:07:22 But not easy Sep 18 02:07:24 understanding* Sep 18 02:08:37 TiagoTiago_: you're trying to do something advanced that very few people have done. This is one of those situations where you may have to do a little research about the tools involved Sep 18 02:08:50 and if you're still stuck, ask specific questions Sep 18 02:09:09 but in that thread they didn't manage to make it work? Sep 18 02:09:43 dunno Sep 18 02:09:51 I haven't read through that whole thread Sep 18 02:10:29 it's probably theoretically possible, and it'll be a great way to learn about bluetooth networking for you ;) Sep 18 02:10:41 heh Sep 18 02:19:47 DocScrutinizer, got a text message, went to unlock it, unlocked but the touchscreen was unresponsive. Sep 18 02:19:59 Could lock and unlock it (no unlock slider screen, though). Sep 18 02:20:24 So I tapped the battery out, now it dies after about 15 seconds at the Nokia logo (hard shutoff with no LCD cleanup). Sep 18 02:20:38 :( Sep 18 02:21:13 Plugging it into a power source causes it to try to boot, go to steady amber LED then crash and repeat. Sep 18 02:21:19 RX-51, so who knows. Sep 18 02:21:39 On a 3GS now. Sep 18 02:21:41 It's the worst. Sep 18 02:22:17 Can it be reflashed if it stayes in constant amber? Sep 18 02:23:07 Haven't gotten that far yet. Sep 18 02:24:34 * johnx hangs his IT hat up by the door, drinks Sep 18 02:25:13 mornin' GeneralAntilles. sorry to hear about that Sep 18 02:25:51 Really feels like a hardware failure. Sep 18 02:25:54 Prototype Sep 18 02:26:07 only HW failure for me so far is the stylus silo Sep 18 02:28:23 what happened there? Sep 18 02:29:03 I let someone else hold it to give me directions in the car, they took the stylus out, checked directions, jammed the stylus back in at an angle and now the stylus doesn't want to fit in Sep 18 02:29:22 I assume it's not totally uncommon Sep 18 02:29:48 Well, it's flashing. Sep 18 02:30:09 GeneralAntilles: awesome. I think that's a very good sign Sep 18 02:31:44 Well, first reboot crashed on bouncy status dots. Sep 18 02:31:53 Second reboot seems to be crashing at the same spot. Sep 18 02:31:59 Not a great sign. Sep 18 02:31:59 did you flash fw and emmc? Sep 18 02:32:32 Just FW Sep 18 02:32:35 Downloading eMMC now. Sep 18 02:33:25 GeneralAntilles: do you have data on the emmc you want to get back? Sep 18 02:33:48 Not particularly Sep 18 02:33:58 I mean, I have books and whatnot I'd rather not have to regather. Sep 18 02:34:08 but nothing I don't have scattered backups of. Sep 18 02:36:26 johnx: wow, is the stylus intact? that's some freaky accident! 0.0 Sep 18 02:36:49 52 minutes to download eMMC Sep 18 02:37:02 hm, what is that tiny hole next to the stylus? Sep 18 02:37:26 TiagoTiago_: phones Sep 18 02:37:39 what? Sep 18 02:37:40 Or lanyard, if you'te thinking of the other side Sep 18 02:37:44 Headphones Sep 18 02:38:09 it's between the TV-out hole and the place you stick the stylus Sep 18 02:38:19 * lcuk peeks in Sep 18 02:38:58 it looks like those holes that have a button in the bottom you stick a paper clip in to reset devices Sep 18 02:39:01 mic Sep 18 02:39:10 ah! Sep 18 02:39:18 I think paper clip in it would do bad things Sep 18 02:39:36 good to know Sep 18 02:40:02 the slightly bigger hole in the other side is mean for a strap, right? Sep 18 02:40:22 meant* Sep 18 02:40:53 yes Sep 18 02:41:12 isn't that hole the mic? Sep 18 02:41:23 TiagoTiago_: yeah, it bent some metal clip inside Sep 18 02:41:26 * johnx eats dinner Sep 18 02:41:30 the second one i asked about is the one close to the status LED Sep 18 02:41:30 later Sep 18 02:41:45 but on the side Sep 18 02:42:20 johnx, i believe it is the mic Sep 18 02:43:16 don't pull out or stick in the sylus while on a call, it's loud Sep 18 02:43:41 stylus* Sep 18 02:43:53 the other hole near the usb port is for the lanyard Sep 18 02:45:11 lcuk, where are you from? Sep 18 02:45:58 TiagoTiago_, Manchester, England. Sep 18 02:46:03 hm Sep 18 02:47:09 * lcuk finishes beer and sleeps Sep 18 02:47:11 gnite \o Sep 18 02:47:18 interesting, "lanyard" , i didn't knew that word, but aparently it's quite popular, a whole Wikipedia article about it Sep 18 02:47:25 TiagoTiago_: http://nds1.nokia.com/phones/files/guides/Nokia_N900_UG_en.pdf Sep 18 02:47:27 cya Sep 18 02:48:01 TiagoTiago_: there's a good diagram showing what all the "holes" do ;) Sep 18 02:48:10 thx Sep 18 02:48:52 guys, who knew when new maemo update out? Sep 18 02:49:12 TiagoTiago_: or http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/n900/specifications Sep 18 02:49:32 KosKuklin: it would show in the device itself, no? Sep 18 02:50:29 KosKuklin: no mention of another update has been made, nor has any release date been announced Sep 18 02:50:49 TiagoTiago_: yap ) Sep 18 02:50:54 wmarone: thx Sep 18 02:53:52 ahah! It isn't called a "lanyard" in that PDF! :P Sep 18 02:55:48 is there a Quassel client for Maemo yet? Sep 18 02:58:26 ~Quassel Sep 18 02:58:43 :( Sep 18 02:59:47 lol "Note: in France, you are only allowed to use WLAN indoors>" **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 18 02:59:57 2010