**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 18 02:59:57 2010 Sep 18 03:00:04 s/>/. Sep 18 03:00:10 erm, that is not it? Sep 18 03:00:12 lol Sep 18 03:36:58 johnx, no improvement with eMMC. Sep 18 03:37:13 GeneralAntilles, but the emmc flashed cleanly? Sep 18 03:37:21 Yeah Sep 18 03:37:51 is there a microsd card in it? Sep 18 03:38:04 (forgive the obvious questions) Sep 18 03:38:10 Nope Sep 18 03:38:59 well, that leaves a couple options, but we rapidly end up doing some more serious hacking. up for it? Sep 18 03:39:33 Dunno, what are we talking about? Sep 18 03:40:04 well, what I'm thinking about is loading something like meego onto a microSD, then use flasher to load a kernel that looks for root on microSD Sep 18 03:40:18 then get in there and do some good old fashioned troubleshooting on the linux command line Sep 18 03:40:48 maybe you can use it to attach some logging and see where the boot process fails Sep 18 03:40:55 s/boot/maemo boot/ Sep 18 03:40:56 johnx meant: maybe you can use it to attach some logging and see where the maemo boot process fails Sep 18 03:41:09 Mmm, I have MeeGo on an SD already. Sep 18 03:41:16 Need to get it from my 5800 though. Sep 18 03:42:13 you might be SOL anyways, but it could be something unnecessary failing that's making the whole thing unusable Sep 18 03:42:44 I'm also not totally convinced it's not some type of NAND or eMMC failure Sep 18 03:43:16 Stanza can't do HTML eBooks. Sep 18 03:43:20 How helpful. Sep 18 03:43:26 * GeneralAntilles shuts down his brain until Monday. Sep 18 03:43:37 yeah I know the feeling Sep 18 03:44:22 * GeneralAntilles wonders where he stuck that MeeGo kernel Sep 18 03:46:28 is there user switcher agent firefox add for maemo firefox??? Sep 18 03:47:35 Where in the world are the kernels? Sep 18 03:47:48 not on the meego codedrop site? Sep 18 03:48:01 Where the hell is the codedrop site? Sep 18 03:48:06 Google apparently hates MeeGo-N900. Sep 18 03:48:33 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php Sep 18 03:48:51 Yeah, found it. <_< Sep 18 03:49:03 the first rule about meego club is you don't tell google about meego club Sep 18 03:52:06 Same behavior with the MeeGo kernel as before I flashed. Sep 18 03:52:10 Nokia logo for about 10-15 seconds Sep 18 03:52:12 Then death. Sep 18 03:52:29 did you flash the bootloader to load straigyht from the card? Sep 18 03:53:40 Oops, maybe not. Sep 18 03:53:45 Fail flasher args Sep 18 03:54:10 Google hates it ? :( Sep 18 03:54:30 but my someday dream is to dual boot meego and android Sep 18 03:54:31 Well, there's fbconsole. Sep 18 03:54:39 Black screen . . . waiting Sep 18 03:54:45 Ho hum Sep 18 03:54:49 Boots MeeGo, apparently. Sep 18 03:55:08 zoom! off to the races Sep 18 03:55:35 Now, NAND or eMMC? Sep 18 03:55:46 just run fsck on one, then the other Sep 18 03:56:13 and, uhm, maybe a non-destructive bad-blocks test? or is that not a good idea on flash? Sep 18 03:56:13 Loading the console took about 3 weeks last time I booted MeeGo. Sep 18 03:56:16 * GeneralAntilles pokes at USB net. Sep 18 03:57:44 Can't even see the prompt behind the menu. Sep 18 04:00:34 Too late at night to deal with this nonsense. Sep 18 04:06:54 where does one find the Alt key function on the N900? Sep 18 04:08:32 A game i don't remember which says the Fn key is ALt-Gr, but i dunno Sep 18 04:11:23 are there any free DNS tunneling services out there? (somthing where you would set up your client and use their servers) Sep 18 04:37:53 GeneralAntilles: what did you do? :P Sep 18 04:39:39 (yes, i do intend to help, just wondering what happned) Sep 18 04:41:00 TiagoTiago_: beware, T-Mobile blocks them Sep 18 04:41:13 yello Sep 18 04:41:42 my carrier is TIM Sep 18 04:43:52 (AKA Telecom Italia Mobile) Sep 18 04:46:19 TiagoTiago_: obviously I wouldn't know what other carriers do Sep 18 04:46:52 and they can't do much if i'm using it over WiFi Sep 18 04:48:29 except block it Sep 18 04:50:29 How would they block stuff i'm doing over WiFi? Sep 18 04:52:56 "Not enough memory to display document" trying to open a PDF :( Sep 18 04:59:46 TiagoTiago_: presumably you want DNS tunnel to bypass blocks. DNS tunnels can also be blocked. Sep 18 05:00:16 but they are a cell phone carrier, they can't do anything about my usage of WiFi networks Sep 18 05:25:58 WOuld it be ok if i symlinked /var/temp to /home? Sep 18 05:26:30 i mean, to somewhere inside /home Sep 18 05:27:41 is there some straight forward way to boot n810 from external memory card and/or is there a good howto somewhere? Sep 18 05:30:37 seems everyone that knows stuff is asleep or otherwise AFK right now :( Sep 18 05:35:27 europe is still asleep.. Sep 18 05:37:13 lol, this sucks, i jsut deleted a bunch of stuff and went check how much free space i had now, and now i have even less Sep 18 06:17:43 moo. Sep 18 06:19:35 hi. Sep 18 07:22:02 can i symlink /user/lib/perl to somewhere inside /home or is it required before it's monunted? Sep 18 07:22:09 mounted* Sep 18 07:32:46 can i symlink /user/lib/perl to somewhere inside /home or is it required before it's mounted? Sep 18 07:37:30 :( Sep 18 07:44:23 someone would have to have a pretty thorough understanding of the init scripts to give you a definite answer Sep 18 07:45:10 TiagoTiago: You can symlink to a non-existent file if you want. Sep 18 07:46:24 heh, you can also ignore pedantic unhelpful comments from people who are so bored they think it's hilarious you typed "user" instead of "usr" Sep 18 07:46:44 LOL HE TYPED USER INSTEAD OF USR Sep 18 07:46:52 ok, that's done Sep 18 07:46:57 :P Sep 18 07:47:09 why would perl be needed for the boot :| Sep 18 07:47:34 yeah, odds are if a boot script does use it, it does it after /home is mounted Sep 18 07:48:03 TiagoTiago: Until /home is mounted, an attempt to call the softlinked file will return 'file not found' or similar, but you can still do it. When the /home dir has been mounted, the link will resolve properly. Sep 18 07:48:17 dunno, last time i moved a language intepreter out of it's place withnout being completly sure it was safe it turned out it wasn't Sep 18 07:48:43 the n900's directory structure is fucked up Sep 18 07:48:45 accept it Sep 18 07:49:24 heh - I'll drink to that ;) Sep 18 07:49:39 a lot of maemo is fucked up :P Sep 18 07:50:05 linux on a mobile feels like how linux was on desktops back in 2002 Sep 18 07:50:20 lol Sep 18 07:50:24 everything is janky and feels like a hack Sep 18 07:50:36 that's because desktops from 2002 are about as powerful as mobiles Sep 18 07:51:09 nah, not quite Sep 18 07:51:18 but it isn't a processing power issue Sep 18 07:51:31 * jpinxN900 has his N900 hooked up by ssh over usb to a laptop and everything runs ok:) Sep 18 07:51:39 except perhaps some of the hacks are done to try and save battery or similar Sep 18 07:52:30 the issue there is nokia switching over to BL-5J for n900.. the battery is relatively smaller compared to its predecessors. Makes you wonder why Sep 18 07:53:00 probably a weight issue Sep 18 07:53:01 obvious guess is size issues Sep 18 07:54:23 now everyone's making 4" phones, nokia could have lead the way, and sold even less n900s Sep 18 07:54:30 I wouldn't think of either.. 1) it has lower battery capacity rating 2) because its a new battery, the battery itself is harder to source. Thankfully me younger brother owns x6 and I can see that it uses the same battery as n900, so when it comes to battery sourcing I could also refer x6 or people would get confused over n900 Sep 18 07:54:37 btw, would it be ok to optify microB? Sep 18 07:57:21 hopefully n9 will be nokia's revenge tact from their linux on phone device side. n900 generally itself hasn't been too bad but it still remains as a highly geeky device (requires tinkering and general acceptance for what its worth) for users/owners to maintain ownership of a device after 6 months `novelty period' Sep 18 07:58:23 I want Nokia to release a N900 G2 , learning from the mistakes made with the N900 and fromt he feedback from the community etc, but still a N900 Sep 18 07:59:24 I'm skeptic of the new nokia CEO.. he may or may not persue n9 and linux on phones/tablets any further Sep 18 07:59:35 I don't like how they lost all the zeros but still wanna make it be the successor of the N900 Sep 18 07:59:41 i was drinking with a guy who works for nokia "on an upcoming meego phone" on tuesday night Sep 18 08:00:04 that was about as specific as he could get with anything, but hopefully we'll be hearing more soon Sep 18 08:00:49 psycho_oreos: hard to say... i think symbian has reached end of life Sep 18 08:00:49 That's right the new CEO will make windows phone 7 phones Sep 18 08:00:56 :( Sep 18 08:01:18 my guess is the discussion going on is whether to really move on this meego thing, or start looking at android Sep 18 08:01:56 that would be better than going Windows but still not good Sep 18 08:01:56 android sucks balls Sep 18 08:02:17 it sells though Sep 18 08:02:33 and nokia needs a selling product badly Sep 18 08:02:44 it probably mostly the hype from being from Google plus general marketing Sep 18 08:03:04 ieatlint, I'd personally vouch the versa, symbian has been predominantly on the nokia's standard devices and it could also partially be one of the reasons why nokia is earning revenue. Alas the issue is not only that.. judging by the new CEO has some close ties with Microsoft (being ex- and what not) he would probably be inclined to see symbian as being the major OS for phones (because symbian does have some similarity to windows on phones) Sep 18 08:03:18 symbian will be the new dumbphone os, meego the new smartphone os Sep 18 08:03:36 probably should rename them cheapphone and expensivephone Sep 18 08:03:52 psycho_oreos: no doubt symbian is one of the biggest money makers for nokia Sep 18 08:04:08 maemo is a footnote... Sep 18 08:04:15 maemo is a toy Sep 18 08:04:41 ieatlint: probably something even lower eg s40 makes even more money for them Sep 18 08:04:41 even corporations like toys Sep 18 08:04:47 but you can't keep sitting on a dying technology and adding patches and hope shit happens Sep 18 08:04:49 IMO, if they treat it properly, it's gonna be the new Symbian Sep 18 08:05:12 nokia sales are down 40%.. and that's symbian sales Sep 18 08:05:12 But i don't think thats how they are positioning meego Sep 18 08:05:12 there's a delay in n900 v2 because of meego merge Sep 18 08:05:21 n900v2? Sep 18 08:05:22 additionally, symbian was never able to get into the US market much Sep 18 08:05:25 new rev? Sep 18 08:06:03 WAsn't it because Nokia didn't advertise much in the US nor tried to offer devices compativle with the technologies the carriers used? Sep 18 08:06:07 intel is throwing a lot of weight onto meego, and if that materialises even for just netbooks, the name recognition could be good going back to phones Sep 18 08:06:16 ieatlint, and alas meego might also be following down the same path as maemo. That's what my main concern is.. because maemo lacked audiences when nokia only made maemo NIT it was seen as relatively a niche market for it to aim at. The n900 was their comeback for it as a phone with extra gadgets but that didn't fly well when linux on phone seems to be quite new for them. I'm just hoping the new CEO won't kill meego Sep 18 08:06:17 TiagoTiago: they used to Sep 18 08:06:31 the nokia 6600 was heavily marketed.. was my first smartphone Sep 18 08:07:03 psycho_oreos: yeah, it's a distinct possibility Sep 18 08:07:19 which is why my bet is they'll head the android route if the new ceo tells meego to fuck itself Sep 18 08:07:40 i think we will see a nokia meego phone, but it may be as niche as the n900 Sep 18 08:07:58 Maemo/Meego has lots of potential, they just need to play their cards right Sep 18 08:08:00 ieatlint, its only a matter of time before the new CEO nominates the new market tactic.. if its `sink or swim' it'll be an end for nokia's linux on phone adventure Sep 18 08:08:01 nah, meego is now a joint project Sep 18 08:08:04 and if shit doesn't shape up for meego in the next 6 months.. it'll be gone, at least as a nokia product, but likely as a product in general Sep 18 08:08:14 kerio: just whatever their next meego phone is Sep 18 08:08:19 psycho_oreos: that would be the wrong thing though Sep 18 08:08:45 i mean, the n900 didn't sell well for nokia, that's for sure Sep 18 08:09:01 symbian is still weird to program for, I hear Sep 18 08:09:04 Other phone makers probably wont join MeeGo until they know its going to succeeded Sep 18 08:09:05 relaly? i thought it sold more than they expected Sep 18 08:09:13 but it still helped them figure out wtf to do with a really-high-end phone Sep 18 08:09:15 really* Sep 18 08:09:16 Succeed * Sep 18 08:09:24 kerio, I know but my personal thoughts will be that, it'll be a hard and fast tactic for nokia as a whole to get back in touch with the rest of the world. Symbian has been on the forefront of nokia's tools and would be seen as heroic but not maemo because it lacked phone functionality as such Sep 18 08:09:29 Damn autocorrect Sep 18 08:09:42 maemo 5 is just not finished enough for mass adoption Sep 18 08:10:13 TermanaDesire: well, intel has lined up a number of partners with meego (not so much for the handset profile, of course) Sep 18 08:10:17 mavhk, symbian is and that's the reason why I hated its control tactics.. waited for n900 to come out locally and I got it Sep 18 08:10:36 IT kinda feels like they rteated the phonefication of Maemo as a hobbie project isntead of putting the company power into it Sep 18 08:10:39 n900 is a linux computer with a built in phone Sep 18 08:10:44 if meego is on notebooks sold at common retail outlets, and in bmw cars, the name recognition for a nokia phone running it would be beneficial Sep 18 08:11:12 ieatlint: netbooks are a low risk area and one that is becoming leas relevant it seems Sep 18 08:11:19 Less* Sep 18 08:11:41 eh... i wouldn't say that Sep 18 08:11:43 low risk, yes Sep 18 08:11:52 intel hates netbooks on the hardware side, less profit per item Sep 18 08:11:52 but i don't think tablets will kill them off Sep 18 08:11:58 if only nokia was serious about marketing linux on phone as would google does with its android, it may also would have seen as a killer platform rather than neglecting the `niche market' after seeing android hit the world by storm (well almost) Sep 18 08:12:03 The ipad has halved netbook sales Sep 18 08:12:16 TermanaDesire: actually that's wrong Sep 18 08:12:26 stupid reporters making stuff up Sep 18 08:12:34 intel is also pushing tablets with meego Sep 18 08:12:43 in fact, a meego tablet on an intel chip comes out on tuesday Sep 18 08:12:46 lol intel is probably reminded of their woes with atom CPU Sep 18 08:12:52 it's no ipad killer, that's for sure Sep 18 08:13:09 silly intel, getting rid of their ARM division Sep 18 08:13:24 ergh, intel had an arm division? Sep 18 08:13:33 yes Sep 18 08:13:36 Intel trying to use x86 in the mobile arena is not a good idea IMO Sep 18 08:13:37 somehow intel licencing cpu arch from another company seems... weird Sep 18 08:13:40 they used to make them, no? Sep 18 08:13:45 strongARM is what it was called before it was sold off to Marvell Sep 18 08:13:51 ARM is efficient, x86 is not Sep 18 08:14:08 that said, i'll happily buy a n900 with an i7 Sep 18 08:14:29 yeah, DEC invented the strongarm, sued intel, somehow intel got their strongarm division Sep 18 08:14:31 though ARM requires cross compiling.. or specific arch compiling, x86 doesn't because it can be seen as `one suit fits all' type of approach Sep 18 08:14:51 so long as you have SSSE3 Sep 18 08:14:55 psycho_oreos: my server runs ARM Sep 18 08:14:59 the N900 is already a guzzler with it's current processor.... Sep 18 08:15:18 But x86 is starting with a power sucking disadvantage over arm Sep 18 08:15:24 TiagoTiago_: yeah, but those i7s are some dope shit Sep 18 08:15:30 lol Sep 18 08:15:31 kerio, that's nice but you still have to compile stuff for armel more or less :) Sep 18 08:15:32 x86 is just a risc core with an emulator sucking battery power Sep 18 08:15:40 psycho_oreos: yeah of course Sep 18 08:15:52 cross compiling doesn't need to be that bad Sep 18 08:15:59 although doing it in windows is a joke Sep 18 08:16:19 I thought x86 was more of a CISC compared to RISC hence that's why ARM et. al. is winning over the x86 due to the lack of instructions and therefore overhead Sep 18 08:16:22 but the nokia sdk for the n900 is simple and decent Sep 18 08:16:34 Mavhk - that's actually a partial myth. I had a link on it discussing it the other day. Sep 18 08:16:50 TermanaDesire: the 50% or the risc core? Sep 18 08:17:20 cross compiling can be daunting for people who are unaware of the terms. I know of some people whom uses their n900 to compile stuff natively via chroot rather than using scratchbox environment on their PC Sep 18 08:17:37 The core I believe. Ill go see if I bookmarked the link Sep 18 08:17:39 the only real reason to have x86 is windows nt Sep 18 08:17:42 i think the other major issue with meego is that intel seems to be running it more (at least at the moment), and they kind of see the word ARM as a taboo, with slogans like "meego runs best with intel" (seriously) Sep 18 08:18:03 they're risking alienating their open source community base Sep 18 08:18:28 TermanaDesire: yeah, it's a massive simplification, but in general, x86 chips have power sucking hardware to convert x86 instructions into the actual stuff the cpu runs Sep 18 08:19:25 is it ok to optify flash? Sep 18 08:19:32 ieatlint: nah, we're actually an equal participant (ARM) in meego, but you have to recall you went to a meegozone / intel event Sep 18 08:19:36 well Intel sold their strongARM division and focused on small x86 for embedded chipsets (hint: moorestown) it seems as though n9 would probably be seen as a likely possibility to have its cores and what not replaced by Intel's SoC solution Sep 18 08:19:37 obviously nokia saw that android beat them and they needed partners to compete, intel still thinks someone will make an x86 phone Sep 18 08:19:43 ieatlint: same kind of slogans will come if ARM showed stuff :) Sep 18 08:20:09 Didn't bookmark it but what your expanded explanation is basically what it said mavhk Sep 18 08:20:14 android is iOS for the cheap Sep 18 08:20:16 Stskeeps: yeah, perhaps i'm really seeing things with a terrible bias at the moment Sep 18 08:20:55 all i can say is the people who went coming from an intel background seemed leave just confused, and the people coming from the maemo background understood the presentations more, but also seemed just confused at the spin Sep 18 08:21:04 I'm pretty sure the meego on ARM won't last long.. if anything it'll be released on either dev phones or initial batch before intel tries to push through their SoC for ARM-free device Sep 18 08:21:17 uhm.. Sep 18 08:21:18 :P Sep 18 08:21:20 win phone 7 is designed to complete with iphone 1, now 3 years later android's the more open platform and microsoft are behind again Sep 18 08:21:26 is it ok to optify flash? Sep 18 08:21:33 android is still crap though Sep 18 08:21:38 ieatlint: i've been along from day zero of meego ARM port, so i know what the state of the actual work is Sep 18 08:21:42 why kerio? Sep 18 08:22:02 ieatlint: my guess - nokia x86 device coming ;) Sep 18 08:22:04 you're just sucking on a different dick Sep 18 08:22:05 psycho_oreos: that's a weird theory Sep 18 08:22:11 google's instead of apple's Sep 18 08:22:40 right now the unreleased n9 still sports ARM which is rather nice but its still far too early to speculate on whether or not n9 will be using ARM core entirely or because of the joint venture, Intel would be seen as dominant in wanting to make their products fly Sep 18 08:22:47 Stskeeps: oh, i definitely believe nokia is keeping along with arm on meego Sep 18 08:23:04 ieatlint: and not only nokia Sep 18 08:23:17 chipset vendors like STE, TI as well Sep 18 08:23:20 cool then Sep 18 08:23:26 psycho_oreos: I have no doubt the n9 will be arm, but after that... Sep 18 08:23:31 and we've seen broadcom guys round too Sep 18 08:23:57 psycho_oreos: the day an x86 phone becomes popular is the day after the human race accepts asbestos gloves aren't bad for you Sep 18 08:24:04 TermanaDesire, after that we'll have to see what nokia's new CEO decides of meego project, which is also a bit of a grave concern for me Sep 18 08:24:13 well, i'm hoping shit goes together on it all Sep 18 08:24:20 psycho_oreos: please keep seperate nokia meego and meego.com Sep 18 08:24:25 Yeah but broadcom provides some or the other for x86 don't they stskeeps? Sep 18 08:24:32 i'll be curious as well to see if meego is actually to maintain a unified community Sep 18 08:24:33 TermanaDesire: not sure if broadcom has x86 Sep 18 08:24:41 i suppose i should join #meego-arm heh Sep 18 08:24:52 be welcome, we sit quite a large of people there Sep 18 08:24:56 and view our logs to see our work Sep 18 08:24:56 :P Sep 18 08:25:18 mavhk, it'll only be a matter of time. Intel does seem they're willing to push it through Sep 18 08:25:45 Stskeeps, o.O ok Sep 18 08:26:20 we'll see if intel does too... moblin didn't exactly get the backing it needed either Sep 18 08:26:21 psycho_oreos: meego.com platform is ARMv7 and Atom, which isn't going away for the forseeable future Sep 18 08:26:24 :P Sep 18 08:26:37 ieatlint: well, judging by the attitudes some of the intel people show, they're not exactly community builders.. Sep 18 08:26:52 and by that i don't mean the community manager, but the coders Sep 18 08:26:54 indeed Sep 18 08:26:57 Does Maemo uses Adobe Flash (like for interface, or decoding the hands video or somthing) or is it only used in web browsers? Sep 18 08:27:07 you have to meet these people in person to understand them a bit better instead of their email style Sep 18 08:27:11 haha using flash for that is LOL Sep 18 08:27:15 makes me wonder if the meego community will fracture Sep 18 08:27:18 TiagoTiago_: no, we use sane codecs Sep 18 08:27:23 ok Sep 18 08:27:27 Stskeeps, ahh ok Sep 18 08:27:41 so that means its safe to optify it? Sep 18 08:27:42 ieatlint: i think it's going more towards integration at least in terms of ARM and X86, because we suffer a large deal of the same problems Sep 18 08:28:11 cos the actual hardware differences make little sense underneath qt Sep 18 08:28:24 Stskeeps: yeah... a lot of questions... it could turn out really well Sep 18 08:28:36 i wish i could afford to go to dublin Sep 18 08:28:46 ieatlint: my hope is that we have something really cool by 1.2.. Sep 18 08:28:46 get a neutral/nokia spin on it all, heh Sep 18 08:28:51 1.1 is already cool but .. Sep 18 08:28:55 not product ready Sep 18 08:29:12 yeah, people seem very unsure of what is making 1.1 Sep 18 08:29:24 why call it somthing above 0.* if it's not product ready? Sep 18 08:29:24 have heard conflicting reports about qtmobility and qt 4.7 being there Sep 18 08:29:32 qt4.7 and qtmobility is there Sep 18 08:29:42 cool Sep 18 08:29:43 1.1 is cool from the pov it's a lean and mean qt platform Sep 18 08:29:53 and libmeegotouch premieres with 1.1 too right? Sep 18 08:30:02 libmeegotouch is already there Sep 18 08:30:24 and that 1.1 is bloody easy to port to devices Sep 18 08:30:25 huh, thought 1.0 lacked the handset/tablet ux Sep 18 08:30:29 1.0 did Sep 18 08:30:32 broadcom on meego *shudders*, sure enough they recently decided to open up their sources on their latest wireless LAN chipsets but there's still not a great deal of support for the chipsets that are not covered by any of their native linux counterparts (namely most of the ones in wl) Sep 18 08:30:35 it came in early 1.1 phases Sep 18 08:30:42 ah, ok Sep 18 08:32:25 a platform that's essentially "build a kernel, drop in root file system, put in your modules, add in your GLESv2/EGL libraries, boot Xorg", is really difficult to not like Sep 18 08:32:29 :P Sep 18 08:32:33 in order to get a proof of concept Sep 18 08:33:38 wtf?! on a documentary on tv they say this guy that shot this girl that rejected him was deemed unfit for trail and now lives as a free man 0.0 Sep 18 08:34:04 she should've known better Sep 18 08:34:49 if a murderer is unfit for trail, he must also be unfit to be free Sep 18 08:34:56 trial* Sep 18 09:09:49 ieatlint: I was thinking about how to answer such init script Q in a more technical manner Sep 18 09:10:54 ieatlint: as a general rule of thumb nothing in /usr must be used before drives are mounted (though I seem to know meamo is violating this) Sep 18 09:11:31 DocScrutinizer: yeah, my vague thoughts Sep 18 09:11:49 perl looks non-critical Sep 18 09:11:56 best solution i could think of, was to make a bash wrapper script for perl itself, and log when it's run Sep 18 09:12:03 then boot the device and see the log Sep 18 09:12:24 yep, I thought of same for all /usr/bin :-D Sep 18 09:12:44 or simply mount without noatime Sep 18 09:12:45 hm Sep 18 09:13:29 ~optification Sep 18 09:13:29 from memory, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet one, two Sep 18 09:14:37 would it be safe to optify the whole /usr folder? Sep 18 09:15:17 no, you also need to sanitize the bugs somebody introduced - means move some needed binaries from /usr/bin to /bin Sep 18 09:15:32 i see Sep 18 09:15:59 has anyone managed to actually replace maemo with "real" debian using the maemo drivers for the nokia hardware? Sep 18 09:16:02 and no way to know which ones need that untill after trying having them not there? Sep 18 09:16:13 possibly also /usr/share/? Sep 18 09:16:41 read all initscripts - or make a script read them :-P Sep 18 09:17:41 talking about that, i lost the link to that tutorial for bash scripting someone here gave me, could you gimme it again? Sep 18 09:17:57 please* Sep 18 09:18:00 np Sep 18 09:18:03 mompls Sep 18 09:19:17 http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/ Sep 18 09:20:10 http://www.faqs.org/docs/bashman/bashref_toc.html#SEC_Contents Sep 18 09:21:23 http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~anthony/info/shell/script.hints Sep 18 09:21:33 dunno what's the last one Sep 18 09:22:55 http://www.cit.griffith.edu.au/~anthony/info/shell/ looks usefull Sep 18 09:25:49 thx Sep 18 09:27:01 Oh yeaaah: http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/nokias-plug-and-touch-turns-your-hdtv-into-a-giant-n8-video/ Sep 18 09:29:17 interesting Sep 18 09:33:21 "you don't have to physicly touch it, but it does help" that's what she said! Sep 18 09:45:24 moo raster Sep 18 09:45:43 ~moo Sep 18 09:45:44 * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass Sep 18 09:51:19 RST38h: boo! Sep 18 09:56:14 µ! Sep 18 10:00:03 is there a keyboard layout creator/editor for the N900 with GUI? Sep 18 10:32:37 TiagoTiago: not since I last suggested somebody is building one Sep 18 10:33:34 well, at least someone is working on it Sep 18 10:33:43 any idea on the progress? Sep 18 10:33:45 really? Sep 18 10:33:48 who? Sep 18 10:34:11 hm, no one then? I guess i misread what you said Sep 18 10:35:09 sorry, probably my wording was adequately fuzzy Sep 18 10:35:38 We discussed it here some months ago, and somebody might have started on it, or not Sep 18 10:35:50 oh, i see Sep 18 10:36:46 actually I thought somebody did Sep 18 10:36:59 can't recall details Sep 18 10:37:59 'ello folks Sep 18 10:38:05 lo MNZ Sep 18 10:38:13 howdy Sep 18 10:39:02 howsit going with y'all Sep 18 10:39:33 uh, reading a bit of shell script poetry for leisure :-) Sep 18 10:39:43 Microsoft's Keyboard Layout Creator would be a great inspiration IMO, it does have some lame flaws here and there, but the general idea and the way you set the keys are a worthy inspiration Sep 18 10:40:37 anything major happening? nokia gone bankrupt, someone run maemo on the iphone, pigs flew, or anything? Sep 18 10:40:59 not that i know of, but that doesn't mean much Sep 18 10:41:04 mmmm flying pre-bacon Sep 18 10:41:34 just ignite the atmosphere and you're served :P Sep 18 10:43:16 DocScrutinizer, read any perl poetry? Sep 18 10:43:26 yuck Sep 18 10:43:55 lcuk: LOL Sep 18 10:45:25 heh, you're missing out then. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Perl Sep 18 10:49:51 interesting Sep 18 10:50:14 i wonder what other languages allow for such trcikery Sep 18 10:50:18 and don't forget JAPH, Just Another Perl Hacker. Sep 18 10:50:47 Tiny little scripts that look totally innocent but manage to somehow print out 'just another perl hacker' Sep 18 10:55:48 http://www.cpan.org/misc/japh <--- this stuff is AMAZING. Not all JAPHs though Sep 18 10:58:52 talk about free time Sep 18 10:59:10 heh Sep 18 10:59:38 TiagoTiago_, one does not find tiem to make perl scripts, its the result of sleeping on the keyboard mostly Sep 18 10:59:52 someone just got it to compile Sep 18 11:00:09 hey don't diss on perl! This is beauty at its finest Sep 18 11:00:28 i once fought sleep programming for so long that the characters on screen actually became a bunch of ants and started running around Sep 18 11:00:38 lcuk: i thought perl scripts are the results of peoples pet cats walking across their kbds while editors are open. Sep 18 11:00:58 raster, that implies forethought to open a code editor Sep 18 11:01:14 :| you guys have no idea what you can do with one line of perl Sep 18 11:01:30 one line of well thought of perl, that is Sep 18 11:01:31 lcuk: nah - accidentally opened editors Sep 18 11:01:41 people left theirt machines and did something useful Sep 18 11:01:45 i have a good idea what can be acomplished, but no idea on how to Sep 18 11:01:50 cats walked across kbd and invented perl scripts Sep 18 11:01:51 :) Sep 18 11:02:08 MNZ: u have no idea what you can do with a cat :) Sep 18 11:02:21 raster, haha well if cats can write perl then I want one :P Sep 18 11:02:37 raster: :-))) Sep 18 11:02:43 DocScrutinizer51: doc! Sep 18 11:02:51 hey debianites \o have a question: supposing I download (via git or other) a source package and cd into its folder, is there a dpkg-* command for getting the builddeps, this of course assumes the source was not in the repository already. Sep 18 11:03:36 ^ that is not possible according to debian folks Sep 18 11:03:45 perl makes my eyes bleed Sep 18 11:04:10 I doubt it, I think dpkg-* requires sources with debian patches, namely a directory under the source tree to have debian/* Sep 18 11:04:14 lcuk: u mean just magically create a deb from ANY source? Sep 18 11:04:14 lcuk, how about grep Depends debian/control Sep 18 11:04:23 oh Sep 18 11:04:29 looking at those examples of perl code, it seems to me the language itself doesn't enforce obfuscated code, but it is flexible enough to allow twisted levels of it Sep 18 11:04:38 raster, i want to run "make" on the package I just git clone'd Sep 18 11:04:43 you mean no debian/ ? Sep 18 11:04:44 MNZ, sure Sep 18 11:05:13 TiagoTiago_, exactly. Except all the hackers with their obfuscation are giving it a bad rep :( Sep 18 11:05:21 lcuk: dpkg has nothing to do with you being able to run make Sep 18 11:05:24 i have put a note in the readme about the builddeps Sep 18 11:05:43 its your job to provide builddeps Sep 18 11:05:44 raster, make doesnt think about it, but for packages with debian/ folder it should work Sep 18 11:05:46 not upstream src Sep 18 11:05:48 lcuk, just ./configure the package and see :P Sep 18 11:05:51 they have no clue what distro u run Sep 18 11:05:55 what version Sep 18 11:05:56 MNZ, no autotools Sep 18 11:06:00 and what packages have those deps Sep 18 11:06:05 perhaps someone should relelase a perl variant that will not copile code that isn't obfuscated Sep 18 11:06:08 and even how they can get installed Sep 18 11:06:14 no upstream can sanely handle that Sep 18 11:06:23 raster, the debian/ folder does contain everything but the Depends: line isnt formatted for use with apt :P Sep 18 11:07:12 oh it has a debian dir? Sep 18 11:07:23 most do Sep 18 11:07:31 with all the right debian packahing info for that src? Sep 18 11:07:37 yes Sep 18 11:07:41 lcuk, can you re-explain the situation? Sep 18 11:07:45 dpng-buildpackage -r fakeroot Sep 18 11:07:55 cant build package Sep 18 11:07:57 (in the dir that has debian/) Sep 18 11:08:01 because the build deps arent yet installed Sep 18 11:08:06 then install them Sep 18 11:08:12 what are they? Sep 18 11:08:15 the debina pkg info should have all of that Sep 18 11:08:33 just grep for 'Depends'. what's wrong with that?? Sep 18 11:09:09 MNZ, sure but it takes mucking around for each one Sep 18 11:09:30 lcuk: the build fails with src (makefiles or configure) complaining of missing deps or headers etc?? Sep 18 11:09:57 no, quick regexp for clean up and just shoot through 'xargs apt-get install' I suppose. There WAS a command for this... hold on Sep 18 11:10:11 MNZ, sure its a quick regexp Sep 18 11:10:26 but every developer who gets a package from git may have to do the same thing Sep 18 11:10:34 or there is a Build-Depends: Sep 18 11:10:40 lcuk, this package is not in the repos ? Sep 18 11:10:41 the dpkg-whatthefuckarethebuilddeps would be simpler Sep 18 11:10:47 and u want those build deps installed for u in 1 simple command? Sep 18 11:11:04 raster, installed or listed yes Sep 18 11:12:35 well if u can list - u can install Sep 18 11:12:41 sure Sep 18 11:12:48 as such the build-depends line isnt just a pckg list Sep 18 11:12:58 but also specific version depsn etc. too Sep 18 11:13:37 basically the same operation that apt-get builddep [package] has Sep 18 11:13:44 but for source folders Sep 18 11:15:08 hmm Sep 18 11:15:19 well normally u'd want apt-get build-dep Sep 18 11:16:10 yes - but in the case of maemo, downloading a debian package source and trying to port/bring it to maemo Sep 18 11:16:31 the debian package usually expects the whole debian repositories are available Sep 18 11:16:51 this just isnt the case and usually need to build multiple things Sep 18 11:17:00 yeah Sep 18 11:18:27 another interesting problem: how to check initscripts for not using 'nonexistent' commands (like /usr/sbin/foo which due to usr not mounted would fail on boot)? thought along some ;;which 'strings init.d';; - of course a bit more sophisticated, Or mount rootfs (which has /usr now) without noatime. Or sed a wrappermscript to log invocations for every bin in /usr/(s)bin. Are there better/existing ideas/tools? Sep 18 11:23:01 lcuk: no command i know of to do that Sep 18 11:23:04 DocScrutinizer51, grep for "/usr" Sep 18 11:23:06 other than writing a script of your own Sep 18 11:23:35 raster, indeed, hence me asking its just something I have noticed with many packages I have gotten Sep 18 11:24:20 lcuk: yeah, not that you mention it, it's highly questionable why /usr/* should be in path (if any at all) of initscripts Sep 18 11:24:28 s/not/now/ Sep 18 11:24:28 DocScrutinizer meant: lcuk: yeah, now that you mention it, it's highly questionable why /usr/* should be in path (if any at all) of initscripts Sep 18 11:25:00 thanks fellas Sep 18 11:25:28 lcuk, some intelligent grepping reveals that you can list build-deps... but only after building XD so if you have a binary or you can already do a dpkg-buildpackage then you can list stuff Sep 18 11:26:27 You can check for yourself: Sep 18 11:26:29 for i in `find /usr/share/man -iname "dpkg*"| xargs`; do echo $i; zcat $i | nroff| grep -i --color depend; done Sep 18 11:26:33 MNZ, great little chicken and egg one isnt it :) Sep 18 11:26:48 lcuk, yeah it's pretty weird Sep 18 11:26:50 why the regular clock isn't set the same way the clock is set when you insert a new SIM? Sep 18 11:26:54 i just added an apt-get line in the README notes Sep 18 11:27:38 so getting from git and trying to build is as simple as possible Sep 18 11:27:51 i wonder how other systems deal with similar Sep 18 11:27:58 ie, is there an rpm equiv Sep 18 11:28:57 TiagoTiago_, internal battery for clock foobar? Sep 18 11:29:47 but then... we not only got init.d/*, we also got event.d (upstart), and especially buggering: there are scripts that run *after* >>mount /dev/mmcfoo /usr<< which of course may use all of the usr/(s)bin cmds. How to tell which are the scripts/events that lack a mounted /usr ? Sep 18 11:30:20 no, i mean, when you insert a new sim, you get a clock with arms for hours and minutes, and you drag each arm to set the time like on a physical clock, but then during regular use, you just scroll thru a list of numbers Sep 18 11:30:55 ahhh Sep 18 11:31:06 one uses gtk itself the other doesnt Sep 18 11:31:22 lcuk: grep usr /etc/init.d/* just gives too much to get me anywhere Sep 18 11:31:29 ok Sep 18 11:32:02 moo lcuk Sep 18 11:32:12 that type of inconsistency reinforces the impression Nokia didn't put enough effort in the N900 :/ Sep 18 11:32:41 TiagoTiago_, hmm Sep 18 11:33:00 i, for one, have seen incredible effort put in by nokia on the n900 Sep 18 11:33:08 and everyone else besides Sep 18 11:33:26 TiagoTiago_, tell you what Sep 18 11:33:27 TiagoTiago_: yep, the initial settings app is MUCH better than that usual incredible scroll-lists crap for date and time Sep 18 11:33:41 you implement that funky clock as a gtk widget Sep 18 11:33:47 push it towards maemo extras Sep 18 11:33:52 get it working perfectly Sep 18 11:34:00 there is lots of great things, but also lots of stuff that seems like they didn't finish what they started and jsut released it Sep 18 11:36:54 * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if that date/time scroll lists already got a number in crashanddie's twentifive Sep 18 11:40:05 hi guys, maybe a stupid question, but i couldn't find the ubuntu-desktop-development-vmware-image. only the ubuntu server edition, which isn't preconfigured. do u know where i can find it? Sep 18 11:40:28 err, hold it. the calendar settings in that osso-startup-settings thingy actually is even worse than standard one. I wonder if zenity is fixable and usable as a template for dates setting Sep 18 11:40:28 why doesn't the welcome setup screen not use the hildon scrollable lists Sep 18 11:41:11 Scrollable lists are stupid Sep 18 11:41:19 At least for 0-59 Sep 18 11:41:56 I am sure some UX designer thought them "cool" Sep 18 11:42:04 They are cool. Sep 18 11:42:10 that welcome screen list sucks big time Sep 18 11:42:10 Cool != good Sep 18 11:42:21 And no actual testing has been done to insure their usability =) Sep 18 11:43:02 Papayawhip, the desktop image is MIA atm Sep 18 11:43:20 I love the 'we wrote the spec, it's perfect, we don't need actual reports of usability' approach. Sep 18 11:43:23 * SpeedEvil sighs. Sep 18 11:44:08 merlin1991: MIA? ^^ Sep 18 11:44:16 dont know this alias^^ Sep 18 11:44:21 missing in action :D Sep 18 11:44:26 ah :D Sep 18 11:44:39 SpeedEvil: That is not the funniest thing Sep 18 11:45:14 SpeedEvil: The funniest thing was when Maemo5 Style Guide explicitely told developers to remove features to make their UI simpler :) Sep 18 11:45:38 that doesn't sound right Sep 18 11:45:50 TiagoTiago_: have you ever used Maemo4? Sep 18 11:45:57 Diablo on N8x0? Sep 18 11:45:57 i can't say i have Sep 18 11:46:08 ditto Sep 18 11:46:12 Well, if you had, you'd know that that doesn't sound too far from the truth ;) Sep 18 11:46:44 Difference between Maemo 4 and Maemo 5, +1 Pretty Graphics, -100 features :) Sep 18 11:46:58 some features could actually make thigns simpler, so it isn't removing features, there gotta be a better algorithm for achiving useful simplicity Sep 18 11:47:28 Idiot mode. Sep 18 11:47:31 * MohammadAG pokes alterego Sep 18 11:47:35 lol Sep 18 11:47:41 Insight :) Sep 18 11:47:52 Hello MohammadAG Sep 18 11:48:11 (I already asked thsi early in the morning, but now that someone is awake) is there some straight forward way to boot n810 from external memory card and/or is there a good howto somewhere? Sep 18 11:48:37 lcuk, slightly change the grepping patter and came up with: dpkg-checkbuilddeps debian/control Sep 18 11:48:52 lcuk, that command is in the package dpkg-dev: /usr/bin/dpkg-checkbuilddeps Sep 18 11:49:20 I think there's a clone to sd howto on wiki.maemo.org somewhere.. Sep 18 11:50:16 oooh MNZ cool Sep 18 11:52:08 shadow, do you refer to this http://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card ? Sep 18 11:53:58 probably, i've never done it myself Sep 18 11:55:01 have you guys seen that sawpollube thing on TMO? Sep 18 11:55:18 s/sqpollube/swappolube Sep 18 11:55:37 erm, why it doesn't work with me? Sep 18 11:55:46 ah, doubletypoe :( Sep 18 11:55:49 syntax error Sep 18 11:55:52 s/syntax/syntax/ Sep 18 11:56:01 or infobot is asleep Sep 18 11:56:07 ~botsnack Sep 18 11:56:07 thanks, MNZ Sep 18 11:56:19 heh Sep 18 11:56:34 anyway, have you guys seen it? Sep 18 11:57:33 alterego: what features is maemo 5 missing compared to Diablo. I've used both and haven't really noticed anything missing. Sep 18 11:57:53 so flashing initfs is only way to boot from external card? Sep 18 11:58:57 TermanaDesire: filemanager is much limited Sep 18 11:59:12 TermanaDesire: basically just a load of config options and things were removed. Sep 18 11:59:37 the other day i went out, it was a very sunny day, the screen of my N900, at full bright, looked darker than indoors, disapointing :( Sep 18 12:06:19 why is it so hard to have a LCD screen that takes advantage of external lighting? Sep 18 12:11:36 TiagoTiago_, i have been wondering that too becase there are some projects where ppl have build video projector from a laptop screen panel and old school projectors Sep 18 12:11:52 and it looks fine Sep 18 12:16:31 TiagoTiago: Have you considering googling for the answer why? :) Sep 18 12:24:08 why oh why I just can't use .hide() to hide tabs in qt Sep 18 12:32:18 X-Fade, ping Sep 18 12:35:56 is it ok to have a file named the same as a folder? (in the same fodler obviously) Sep 18 12:36:13 TiagoTiago_, no Sep 18 12:37:10 then i'm stumped Sep 18 12:37:16 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37198 Sep 18 12:38:22 what do i need to do in the step where it says i should have a file with the "echo nameserver..." named /etc/ppp/ip-up.d ? Sep 18 12:39:08 that's not the file's name Sep 18 12:39:14 just create a file in that dir Sep 18 12:39:34 hm, ok Sep 18 12:40:00 dirs that end in .d usually have all their files parsed as config files by whatever prog Sep 18 12:40:12 why can't the auotubilder access repository.maemo.org :( Sep 18 12:40:37 W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release.gpg Could not connect to repository.maemo.org:80 (92.123.155.66). - connect (111: Connection refused) Sep 18 12:41:56 crap, it seesm there are a bunch of correctiong tot he instructions but isnrtead of editing the original post they comment about it bellow int he thread Sep 18 12:42:54 nice someone broke the builder Sep 18 12:43:04 it used to be able to access it a week or two ago, now it doesn't Sep 18 12:55:28 MohammadAG: it's dead, Jim Sep 18 13:00:01 Is it possible to identify that the device connecting to a certain webpage is the N900? Sep 18 13:00:07 Through javascript maybe? Sep 18 13:00:27 The user-agent HTTP header Sep 18 13:01:34 DocScrutinizer, and so will somebody else if they don't show up today :P Sep 18 13:01:54 are there any garage admins other than X-Fade? Sep 18 13:02:52 * noobmonk3y waves Sep 18 13:03:19 alterego, the accept is specified on the server level? Sep 18 13:05:21 or within the page? Sep 18 13:06:50 nm, I got it Sep 18 13:11:42 If anyone already has this javascript code available let me know... to request the headers and identify the phone as N900 Sep 18 13:11:45 thanks Sep 18 13:15:52 Carneque, it's in navigator.userAgent IIRC Sep 18 13:16:04 alert(navigator.userAgent) and see Sep 18 13:16:29 not sure how cross-browser that is though Sep 18 13:20:20 "Security personnel may find the termination of a subject that is not strictly alive problematic, however field tests have shown that sufficient gross physical trauma will render a subject non-animate." Sep 18 13:22:54 How does anybody call an iPhone usable. . . . Sep 18 13:23:11 Depends on the intended use, I guess Sep 18 13:24:56 Whatever it is, it's a good thing I'm only stuck with this thing until Monday Sep 18 13:25:29 * luke-jr hopes the same goes for him too Sep 18 13:25:44 Hi All! Sep 18 13:26:04 Carneque: N900 isn't a phone. You can run any browser on it. Unlikely there's any simple way to ID it as a device. Sep 18 13:26:27 I need to know how to connect n900 to internet using 3G on another cellphone? Sep 18 13:26:35 heh Sep 18 13:26:57 i guess easiest is to run joikuspot or equivalent on the other cellphone Sep 18 13:28:01 but it is for use N900 like a hotspot.. Sep 18 13:28:25 I want use another cell with N900, like on N810 ... Sep 18 13:28:51 [06:46:25] Difference between Maemo 4 and Maemo 5, +1 Pretty Graphics, -100 features :) Sep 18 13:28:54 GAN800: 800 :-D Sep 18 13:29:29 Piece of shit Sep 18 13:29:39 LOL Sep 18 13:29:58 ... Sep 18 13:30:00 810>800 Sep 18 13:30:30 Carneque: the user agent can give you a decent clue to the phone Sep 18 13:30:48 on the default fennec browser, it says "maemo" and "n900" in the user agent Sep 18 13:31:00 on opera, it says "maemo" in the user agent Sep 18 13:33:03 anunakin: seems pretty few n900 users considered this a useful scenario, so there's probably only hints from n8x0 times how to tether external GSM modem to a maemo device Sep 18 13:33:20 on N810 I used BT PAN Sep 18 13:33:45 I looking on bt pan too Sep 18 13:34:03 I just bought my N900, and have on N810... Sep 18 13:34:04 anyone know a good place to see examples of pyqt QtMultimediaKit ? Sep 18 13:34:11 anunakin, no I did not suggest you run joikuspot on N900. I suggested you run joikuspot on the other phone, or equivalent software Sep 18 13:34:21 noobmonk3y, no, make your own :P Sep 18 13:34:27 * noobmonk3y grumbles Sep 18 13:34:31 there are some examples in the repo, but they're C++ afaik Sep 18 13:34:35 poo Sep 18 13:34:43 ShadowJK: modulo there's usually no such thing for other phones Sep 18 13:34:47 I have two sim cards, one have a 3G internet only plan, and another sim has a commom plan Sep 18 13:35:06 DocScrutinizer, joikuspot even works on my ancient E70 :) Sep 18 13:35:06 internet only plan is very cheap Sep 18 13:35:17 ShadowJK: ooh Sep 18 13:35:29 w00t_, Ping? Sep 18 13:35:35 w00t_, Did you get my email? Sep 18 13:35:38 and with ulimited traffic Sep 18 13:35:47 unlimited Sep 18 13:36:12 DocScrutinizer, probably the only reason joikuspot for n900 exists is all the people coming from symbian whined at joiku software to port it to n900... Sep 18 13:36:26 I see Sep 18 13:36:38 infobot, seen w00t_ Sep 18 13:36:44 never been much interested in joghurt sport Sep 18 13:36:46 w00t_ is currently on #maemo #meego, last said: 'moin thiago_home btw :)'. Sep 18 13:37:08 infobot, Thanks. How long ago did he say that? Sep 18 13:37:08 dneary: de nada Sep 18 13:37:38 If I didn't know better, I'd say infobot was a real person Sep 18 13:38:01 DocScrutinizer: what's yoghurt sport? Sep 18 13:38:13 ~botsnack Sep 18 13:38:13 thanks, DocScrutinizer Sep 18 13:38:27 ~botsmack Sep 18 13:38:27 OWW! Sep 18 13:38:33 dneary: errr joku spot Sep 18 13:39:23 JoikuSpot sucks for including an omap1 only module Sep 18 13:39:31 and being closed source etc.. Sep 18 13:39:35 thanks guys for the help on that... just saw your comments Sep 18 13:39:41 and doing lots of shit really Sep 18 13:39:56 it should've stayed on symbian Sep 18 13:40:00 it works like shit on maemo Sep 18 13:40:09 dneary: he's on travel to london Sep 18 13:40:39 voting's kinda tough :P Sep 18 13:41:04 heh MohammadAG, let's sell a package containing a reduced set of coreutils :-D Sep 18 13:41:27 of course not based on the GPL ones Sep 18 13:41:44 I compiled x48 emulator to N900 Sep 18 13:41:49 let's call it yoghurt core Sep 18 13:41:49 DocScrutinizer, is $10 good enough? Sep 18 13:41:50 Works very well Sep 18 13:41:59 MohammadAG: fine with me Sep 18 13:44:25 * DocScrutinizer ponders selling the luxury version of *# :-P Sep 18 13:45:31 DocScrutinizer, what does it do? Sep 18 13:46:47 comes with a 5 pages pdf about SSC, plus maybe some queenbeecon config files to do particular SSC the 'convenience way' Sep 18 13:48:32 or, even better, some vcards to add virtual contacts holding SSC, to addrbook Sep 18 13:51:17 surname: phonecontrol; firstname:disable_all_redirections; number:##002# Sep 18 13:52:58 the longer I think about it, the less of a pun it feels like. Maybe I really should shoot such a thing into OVI Sep 18 13:53:36 well, i just learnt something... "cervical" can refer to one's neck Sep 18 13:56:02 err, is this related? :-D Sep 18 13:56:40 i'm just going to say yes Sep 18 13:56:55 * DocScrutinizer is concerned about his cervical integrity Sep 18 13:57:12 yeah, i've got some cervical pain myself Sep 18 13:58:23 I hope ovi doesn't break your neck usually Sep 18 13:58:40 otherwise fail to see the link Sep 18 13:58:59 what's the cost to publish with ovi? i seem to recall seeing an annual 50EUR at some point Sep 18 13:59:28 sounds affordable Sep 18 13:59:35 Ovi will take your sanity away Sep 18 13:59:57 no way, not possible here :oP Sep 18 14:00:00 Doc: 30% of sales *and* EUR50/year is not affordable Sep 18 14:00:20 there was also some extra fee for signing the application, but not sure if that applies to the n900 Sep 18 14:00:24 More like adding insult to the injury (generic CC processor will take 10-15%) Sep 18 14:00:26 yeah, that's gross Sep 18 14:00:47 RST38h: 30% for standard sales, they keep 40-50% for sales that aren't simple credit card transactions Sep 18 14:01:07 eeeew Sep 18 14:01:08 ieatlint: ah, even "better" Sep 18 14:01:19 and for that you are getting what? Sep 18 14:01:20 google is $25 one time fee... apple is $100, but i don't know if that's one-time or per year Sep 18 14:01:28 onetime Sep 18 14:01:55 per year Sep 18 14:01:55 now I see why OVI is such an incredible success Sep 18 14:02:04 Unless they changed it Sep 18 14:02:08 Yea, it is a perfect place Sep 18 14:02:12 the new intel store that is going to be tied into ovi is $100/year... not sure if ovi will adopt that as well Sep 18 14:02:29 The new Intel store will become even bigger success Sep 18 14:03:08 RST38h, left them at home did you? Sep 18 14:03:21 left whom? Sep 18 14:03:29 RST38h, your sarcasm tags Sep 18 14:03:31 :P Sep 18 14:03:43 oh those...I just never closed the opening one. Sep 18 14:04:09 ok, I'll simply change the hw lockcode on +#-luxury installation (of course with prior asking user to click the [only possible] OK button), then ship the new hw lock when payment comes in :-P Sep 18 14:04:43 Doc <-- talking gibberish Sep 18 14:04:54 no, it's an awesome plan Sep 18 14:05:24 DocScrutinizer, you do that for the paid version, and make them pay for the paid version by saying you'll send them their new lockcode Sep 18 14:05:38 for the free version* Sep 18 14:05:45 err damn it Sep 18 14:05:46 "you are installing *#-luxury. This sw costs 10$. [ok] [agree]" -> change device lock code Sep 18 14:06:01 you do it for the free version, to force them to buy the paid version Sep 18 14:06:15 yeah, that's what he was saying :P Sep 18 14:07:17 Using punctuation marks in application names should be punishable by something. Sep 18 14:07:30 * RST38h have not yet figured out the right punishment Sep 18 14:07:44 RST38h, punch-uation is the punishment Sep 18 14:08:08 * RST38h was thinking in terms of hand-copying a few volumes of Encyclopedia Britannicaor something Sep 18 14:08:10 I keep trying to tap outside the dialogs Sep 18 14:08:16 ahhahah Sep 18 14:08:27 does this abomination even have an irc client? :) Sep 18 14:10:11 Colloquy Sep 18 14:10:36 $1.99 :/ Sep 18 14:11:03 Copy paste makes it impossible to move the insert point Sep 18 14:11:27 GAN800, you iPhone user, you! Sep 18 14:12:06 For about 2 more days. :( Sep 18 14:12:29 GAN800_, are you having your N900 repaired or something? Sep 18 14:12:58 * RST38h checked out Colloquy source code Sep 18 14:13:07 ObjectiveC. Funny stuff. Sep 18 14:13:12 the way to fuck with him is to send him urls for really awesome stuff Sep 18 14:13:23 RST38h: it's iphone.. yeah, objectivec Sep 18 14:13:23 Looks like C with a diarrhea Sep 18 14:13:38 ieatlint, you mean flash content? Sep 18 14:13:39 :P Sep 18 14:13:47 Termana: nah, any link Sep 18 14:13:55 it's not like he can just click on it and stay on irc :P Sep 18 14:14:06 ieatlint, :P he can actually in iOS4 Sep 18 14:14:08 go ahead, switch apps and ... oh ... right ... :P Sep 18 14:14:23 what about iphone multitasking? hasn't Jobs allowed it? Sep 18 14:14:34 hehe, yeah, the handful of apps that have pre-approval for it Sep 18 14:14:38 Colloquy takes advantage of Apple's concurrency apis Sep 18 14:14:53 See what I did there? Sep 18 14:14:59 * Termana troll face Sep 18 14:15:06 concurrency vs multitasking Sep 18 14:15:48 Termana: No September proto whose NAND or eMMC iscaput Sep 18 14:16:10 So, I ordered a new one Sep 18 14:16:34 GAN800, ouch. Well I guess that means you like it better than anything else on the market right now Sep 18 14:16:45 GAN800: you always should have a spare on your shelf Sep 18 14:16:46 Hard to tell, when you slag it so much :P Sep 18 14:16:47 Died 2 days before my lease was up. Gottalove that. Sep 18 14:17:15 Yeah, my spare is on loan to a friend Sep 18 14:17:38 Doc, don't forget to intercept the powerbutton, add the locking thing to the boot process, and shutting down SSH etc Sep 18 14:18:33 TiagoTiago_: nah, that's a package for the silly Sep 18 14:19:05 GAN: Just copied all the data and apps off my proto to a new N900 Sep 18 14:19:19 GAN: Going to pass the proto to the next Moscow-based guy in the queue Sep 18 14:19:22 even changing lock code to anything different than default 12345 will cause the intended pay enforcement mechanins go fail Sep 18 14:19:33 BTW, data migration has been pretty uneventful Sep 18 14:19:58 Doc: I know it is a stupid question, but what does your application do? =) Sep 18 14:20:11 it asks for $10 Sep 18 14:20:15 isn't that enough? Sep 18 14:20:19 lo, exactly Sep 18 14:20:26 Seriously. Useless as a mobile computer Sep 18 14:20:33 in my experience, migration is one of the aspects where Nokia excels Sep 18 14:20:50 Well, Symbian migration is a pain Sep 18 14:21:04 But Maemo5 ended up being pretty straightforward Sep 18 14:21:14 it was a breeze to migrate my stuff from my 3650 to my N73, and then from my N73 to my N900 Sep 18 14:21:30 RST38h: * DocScrutinizer ponders selling the luxury version of *# :-P --- comes with a 5 pages pdf about SSC, plus maybe some queenbeecon config files to do particular SSC the 'convenience way' Sep 18 14:21:39 didn't even need a PC or cables Sep 18 14:21:45 GAN: iPhone is not a mobile computer. It is a religious artifact. Sep 18 14:22:00 RST38h: lol Sep 18 14:22:10 I'm always amazed how little vendors seem to care about making it easy to migrate from one of their phones to another of the same vendor. It's as hard/easy to go to another vendor as buying a new from from the same vendor as the old phone. Sep 18 14:22:24 Although I like having remote software for everything from INSTEON to Roku or you coffee maker Sep 18 14:22:29 Doc: Coooooooooooooool Sep 18 14:22:59 SwedeMike: Nokia hasn't disapointed me in that aspect so far Sep 18 14:23:02 I didn't need to do any data migration with my Desire. I just signed in and it had everything waiting for me, email, contacts... :P Sep 18 14:23:09 yeah, isn't it? X-P Sep 18 14:23:41 * RST38h reading through a long thread where iPhone users explain to the thread originator that he REALLY does not need to be able tocopy mp3 files to a device or play by folder Sep 18 14:23:47 Termana: is that oen of those thigns where htye keep the data on a server where people hack into to get gossip about famous people? Sep 18 14:23:58 RST38h: even better than fart-app Sep 18 14:24:05 Because iTunes handles everything for him, including getting all the music, and if he has got an mp3 file, he has most likely pirated it anyway Sep 18 14:24:09 Whcih is BAD. Sep 18 14:24:23 TiagoTiago_, personally I don't do anything that I don't care about people knowing - so whatever Tin Foil Hat Man :P Sep 18 14:24:25 like, why is there no way to sync the t9 dictionary between devices? Sep 18 14:24:45 If someone wants to know about my lonely life they can go ahead. Sep 18 14:24:55 ah, yeah, those details aren't included Sep 18 14:25:28 if i decide to stop paying my carrier all my data is still with me Sep 18 14:25:48 TiagoTiago_, don't bash me too much, I own an N900 too :P Sep 18 14:25:51 It has never been your data to begin with! Sep 18 14:25:54 heh Sep 18 14:25:57 RST38h, lol Sep 18 14:25:58 lol Sep 18 14:26:05 RST38h: play by folder? useless crap, see maemo mediaplayer Sep 18 14:26:19 Doc: Yea, maemo mediaplayer is useless crap. Sep 18 14:27:07 3rd party stuff will, though. Sep 18 14:27:58 GAN800: ooh, somebody made a real app out of my simple idea to put up some shellscript for playlist generation? Sep 18 14:29:01 GAN800: or were you referring to 3rd party mediaplayers? Sep 18 14:29:34 Doc: There is an easier way ;) Sep 18 14:29:48 which one? Sep 18 14:29:51 Doc: Search extras for "grilo". Install it. Go to the app menu in the mediaplayer. Sep 18 14:30:13 DocScrutinizer: Yes Sep 18 14:30:31 * DocScrutinizer googling grilo Sep 18 14:31:09 that's cricket in portuguese (at least brazilian portuguese) Sep 18 14:34:47 as in the bug, not the sport Sep 18 14:39:23 RST38h: nice, alas useless as it doewsn't sort files in a folder - they are displayed and added like found in inodes Sep 18 14:42:52 or sorted by size or any other non-obvious and useless criteria Sep 18 14:43:34 02 03 11 07 09 05 01... Sep 18 14:44:57 Doc: That I am not sure about. I would sort by name of course. Sep 18 14:45:07 Doc: If it does not, email the author Sep 18 14:45:13 yeah Sep 18 14:45:26 javispedro moo Sep 18 14:45:41 a pitty, such a nicely integrated usefull feature, and then that Sep 18 14:45:46 moo Sep 18 14:46:29 * javispedro curses Sep 18 14:46:55 I say "gimme the source so I can reproduce it" and I get a half .c file that doesn't even compile, not to mention it doesn't link because it's missing 99% of the project Sep 18 14:47:27 lol Sep 18 14:47:41 javispedro: nice, what project? =) Sep 18 14:48:03 it's all on tmo Sep 18 14:48:28 what's tmo? :-P Sep 18 14:48:37 talk.maemo.org Sep 18 14:48:38 _our_ tmo. Sep 18 14:48:57 ~tmo Sep 18 14:48:58 somebody said tmo was http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic Sep 18 14:49:06 ~cookie Sep 18 14:49:08 Hey javispedro, zip 48603 is Saginaw Saginaw MI Sep 18 14:49:19 hmm Sep 18 14:49:44 what doing£¿ Sep 18 14:50:08 talk£¿£¿£¿ Sep 18 14:50:16 broken charset warning Sep 18 14:50:18 (¨t_¨s)# Sep 18 14:50:34 jee: you may want to turn that uniceode off. Sep 18 14:50:47 hello£¿£¿£¿ Sep 18 14:51:02 jee> hello£¿£¿£¿ Sep 18 14:51:08 was that intentional? Sep 18 14:51:37 MTHELs powering up! Sep 18 14:52:02 nono Sep 18 14:52:16 ok Sep 18 14:52:32 * DocScrutinizer switching MTHELs to standby again Sep 18 14:52:42 I'm using opera will not be used uniceode Sep 18 14:52:51 what is a MTHEL? Sep 18 14:53:27 Where are you from ah? Sep 18 14:53:52 unicode usually is not a problem, though some implementations of it do lack accuracy Sep 18 14:54:02 ¡ð Sep 18 14:54:03 I'm from Brazil Sep 18 14:54:03 ¨O£Ü) Sep 18 14:54:03 ©~©~©~¡ò¯¨R¯¡ò Sep 18 14:54:04 Mobile Tactical High Energy Laser - lrn2google Sep 18 14:54:13 ¨q¦ä¦ä¦ä¨r Sep 18 14:54:13 {/ @ @ /} Sep 18 14:54:13 ( (oo) ) Sep 18 14:54:13 ¦á¦á¦á Sep 18 14:54:31 MTHEL fire! Sep 18 14:54:37 \o/ Sep 18 14:54:54 ah, i was thinking it was some sort of in joke Sep 18 14:55:23 well, at least the guy was right in that he was using Opera Sep 18 14:55:27 CTCP-VERSION: Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 5.1; U; zh-cn) Presto/2.6.30 Version/10.62 Sep 18 14:55:32 opera has an irc client now? Sep 18 14:55:42 o.O Sep 18 14:56:05 Opera does IRC? Sep 18 14:56:09 Interesting Sep 18 14:56:11 perhaps it was some web based irc client? Sep 18 14:56:15 opera desktop does, i think Sep 18 14:56:35 Starting with Opera 7.50, there is an integrated IRC (Internet Relay Chat) client. It has all basic IRC features, including DCC file transfer (send/receive files to/from users). Sep 18 14:56:46 and broken charset. Sep 18 14:56:48 OMG Sep 18 14:56:53 plus sending ascii gfx BS Sep 18 14:56:58 perhaps it was bad encodding setting Sep 18 14:57:09 RST38h: can you say "feature creep"? Sep 18 14:57:21 no. Sep 18 14:57:21 that could have been simply he pasting a multiline text Sep 18 14:57:41 Could, or couldn't have, who cares now... Sep 18 14:58:14 don't you see the pig head? Sep 18 14:58:49 ascii gfx shit Sep 18 15:00:01 but obviously still with a borked charset Sep 18 15:00:20 why do we need anything other than utf8, right now? Sep 18 15:00:23 it's 2010, come on Sep 18 15:00:32 the ascii gfx may or may not have been Opera's fault Sep 18 15:00:48 kerio: I've just been in talks with someone who liked nedit (a bare xlib text editor) Sep 18 15:00:52 guess what? Sep 18 15:00:57 nedit doesn't support utf-8 Sep 18 15:01:00 pfft. Sep 18 15:01:06 rejoining doesn't remove +q Sep 18 15:01:06 well then nedit is a crappy editor Sep 18 15:01:10 agreed. Sep 18 15:01:11 nedit is motif based and it is cool Sep 18 15:01:13 I don't give a shit, jee is free to /query me if he sorted his things Sep 18 15:01:20 RST38h: it's motif? O.o Sep 18 15:01:30 sounds pretty bad if an editor in this age doesn't support utf-8 Sep 18 15:01:35 but I like PICO better, nedit is too smart for me Sep 18 15:01:44 Adeon: last release was 20041013 Sep 18 15:01:47 DocScrutinizer, what if opera doesn't have /query xP Sep 18 15:01:49 utf-8 is overrated Sep 18 15:01:49 haha Sep 18 15:02:13 MohammadAG: then I'd say screwit Sep 18 15:02:33 Face it, you should all have learned English by now =) Sep 18 15:02:38 heh Sep 18 15:03:04 (at least to a degree needed to operate computer UIs) Sep 18 15:03:07 RST38h: half of unicode are ancient glyphs Sep 18 15:03:19 kerio: nice! and are you using them? Sep 18 15:03:25 of course not Sep 18 15:03:34 my brother does, though Sep 18 15:03:41 (polytonic greek) Sep 18 15:03:43 kerio: then why not leave unicode use to people who study ancient glyphs? =) Sep 18 15:03:49 even using ASCII half of the stuff in the console uses ancient glyphs and runes Sep 18 15:04:15 RST38h: because µ Sep 18 15:04:23 u Sep 18 15:04:27 :-P Sep 18 15:04:31 ASCII most of the chars are normal Sep 18 15:04:34 ASCII is 7 bit Sep 18 15:04:58 how about my åäö that don't exist in plain ASCII! Sep 18 15:05:02 + optional 1 bit if you are using an extra alphabet Sep 18 15:05:02 ascii SI is nice though Sep 18 15:05:17 ASCII is 7 bit. Sep 18 15:05:34 The high 128 chars are not ASCII Sep 18 15:06:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_symbol Sep 18 15:06:18 The REAL reason for Unicode. Sep 18 15:07:12 (yes, you guessed right, it is PORN) Sep 18 15:07:25 man ascii ftw Sep 18 15:10:05 "Dear Toshiba, really love your laptop, but could you make the keys light up next time?" Sep 18 15:11:08 "No. You bought it already, so I already took your money, and I don't care what happens to the company after I leave it." Sep 18 15:11:11 err, like on iPad vkbd, or what? Sep 18 15:12:10 'make keys light up' doesn't make sense to me Sep 18 15:12:24 I'm thinking mbp-like backlight Sep 18 15:12:33 aah Sep 18 15:14:22 * DocScrutinizer drools over his ever shining keyring Sep 18 15:14:30 Of course, whoever invented these "island" keyboards has to be made to type on them for eternity Sep 18 15:14:39 my keyboard works fine Sep 18 15:14:42 :| Sep 18 15:14:43 'ever' == >25 years Sep 18 15:15:03 "island" keyboard Sep 18 15:15:26 kill them with fire! Sep 18 15:15:36 really, what's so bad about them Sep 18 15:15:47 Ok, "Firmware 1.3 on its way" thread dissolved into usual lemming chorus, unsubscribing Sep 18 15:15:54 they are pain to type on. Sep 18 15:16:00 * DocScrutinizer burps Sep 18 15:16:11 ~pr1.3 Sep 18 15:16:12 methinks pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now..... Sep 18 15:16:14 /dcc send DocScrutinizer education Sep 18 15:16:47 ~factinfo pr1.3 Sep 18 15:16:47 pr1.3 -- created by noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@host86-178-53-101.range86-178.btcentralplus.com> at Tue May 25 07:13:59 2010 (116 days); last modified at Tue May 25 11:13:27 2010 by crashanddie_; it has been requested 12 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 35s ago. Sep 18 15:17:00 infobot: pr1.3 is a bannable subkect Sep 18 15:17:00 ...but pr1.3 is already something else... Sep 18 15:17:08 you lack in flexibility, infobot Sep 18 15:17:12 ~factinfo moo Sep 18 15:17:12 moo -- created by mgeary at Fri Sep 28 15:18:07 2007 (1085 days); last modified at Fri Sep 28 15:19:22 2007 by fungus!n=olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com; it has been requested 114 times, last by TiagoTiago, 5h 31m 27s ago. Sep 18 15:17:44 RST38h: is there any thread on tmo that doesn't dissolve into that? Sep 18 15:17:45 modified by fungus in 2007... mhm Sep 18 15:18:01 javispedro: dunno, all I have seen do, eventually Sep 18 15:18:17 previously you could prevent that by carefully adding some technobabble in between the thread Sep 18 15:18:27 javispedro: Maybe if we select a thread title that does not contain any keywords lemmings are sensitive to... Sep 18 15:18:38 but now someone reads between the technobabble and says "this must mean symbian for n900 is coming!!" and ruins the thread Sep 18 15:18:52 javispedro: or that chuck norris crap. Sep 18 15:19:28 symbian is nice, and we always say OSS is about freedom of choice Sep 18 15:19:41 oh, I don't doubt that. Sep 18 15:19:56 I bet some people would like symbian on n900 Sep 18 15:20:06 I don't doubt that either. Sep 18 15:20:13 I doubt someone is working on it. Sep 18 15:20:32 lcuk: Admit you got that infection from RevdKathy? =) Sep 18 15:20:38 RST38h, not at all Sep 18 15:20:58 I have said for many years that Nokia devices would be great to come with an OS select on first boot :) Sep 18 15:21:11 Once they open it enough, wouldn't it be easy to port it to the N900 given the hardware is somewhat shared? Sep 18 15:21:22 TiagoTiago_: as easy to port as Windows CE! Sep 18 15:21:33 reallly? Sep 18 15:21:34 TiagoTiago_, well theres little other things which would need to be solved I believe Sep 18 15:21:52 like what? Sep 18 15:21:52 especially to N900, with all the nice open hw drivers... err did I say that? Sep 18 15:21:53 n900 has no dedicated call/cancel buttons on the facia - i think most/all have them Sep 18 15:22:04 well Sep 18 15:22:13 droid devices also "must have" certain buttons Sep 18 15:22:13 they would have to be soft buttons etc Sep 18 15:22:15 there are plenty buttons to choose from Sep 18 15:22:15 see nitdroid Sep 18 15:22:23 lcuk: "If grandmother had balls, she would be granfather" Sep 18 15:22:24 where they abuse the camera button / focus button Sep 18 15:22:33 yuck Sep 18 15:23:03 As things stand though, you have got what you have got, so the answer to all these Symbian/Maemo "proposals" is a no. Sep 18 15:23:04 can we have windows CE on N900? Sep 18 15:23:15 user: Yes, VMWare has done that. Sep 18 15:23:30 woooot! Sep 18 15:23:42 VMware is on N900? Sep 18 15:24:02 you could always add virtual buttons and reduce the reported screen resolution by 16 lines or somthing Sep 18 15:24:11 user_: we don't need no silly VMware Sep 18 15:24:16 we got bochs Sep 18 15:24:18 hahaha Sep 18 15:24:45 user: google, right? Sep 18 15:24:48 http://www.tuug.fi/~toni/serendipity/index.php?/archives/9-Windows-NT-4.0-running-on-N900!.html Sep 18 15:24:52 can you link me to discussion for winCE on N900 please. Sep 18 15:25:00 pr1.3 thread: someone says "maemo.org repos have fremantle-1.3 section. fremantle-1.3 is coming!!!". someone reminds "fremantle-1.3 is a symlink to 1.2 and was created _by maemo.org_, not nokia". lemmings: Sep 18 15:25:00 why am I user? Sep 18 15:25:02 omg Sep 18 15:25:13 brb need to login Sep 18 15:25:18 lol Sep 18 15:25:30 hhaha Sep 18 15:25:32 just /nick and /nickserv identify Sep 18 15:26:04 Lord, please someone kill me before he comes back Sep 18 15:26:13 javispedro: just shows how desperate poor abandoned N900 users are =) Sep 18 15:26:24 baaack Sep 18 15:26:29 * Termana runs Sep 18 15:26:29 Termana: there is /ignore command. I use it a lot. Sep 18 15:26:30 now thats better Sep 18 15:26:43 * DocScrutinizer knew it, knew it really Sep 18 15:26:59 hahaha Sep 18 15:27:04 RST38h: so desesperated someone opened yet another thread about "some ovi maps symbian update not coming to maemo" (like if it wasn't the 999th time) Sep 18 15:28:00 javispedro: well, new ones join tmo weekly, and they all want to have their say, if not ovi maps Sep 18 15:28:54 I dont get ovi maps! do one really need internet to check his location using gps! Sep 18 15:29:12 either that or 20 minutes waiting for gps lock Sep 18 15:29:37 Really useful irc command, that /ignore... Sep 18 15:29:58 doesn't it also keep map tiles in the "cloud", and the route seraching is also aquired from cloudware? Sep 18 15:30:40 TiagoTiago_: neither. it just uses the cloud for POI searches. it routes offline and can keep local map tiles cached (even entire countries) Sep 18 15:31:08 still wants connection every 5 minutes or so Sep 18 15:31:14 yep. Sep 18 15:31:22 javispedro, your right Sep 18 15:31:29 it takes long Sep 18 15:31:42 20-minute gps lock problem is solvable, albeit in a weird way Sep 18 15:32:01 The solution is to run Nokia's GPS diagnostics utility in the background Sep 18 15:32:09 wow Sep 18 15:32:13 how? Sep 18 15:32:26 And let that utility initialize GPS and obtain the position. Usually takes no more than 5 minutes when standing still. Sep 18 15:32:44 or warm it at home (or anywhere with wi-fi) Sep 18 15:32:50 RST38h, how do one do it? Sep 18 15:33:07 that too , but it is less flexible and it will screw up again after you lock/unlock the device Sep 18 15:33:15 hum Sep 18 15:33:20 mmm Sep 18 15:33:29 i've read someone say GPSjinni also speds things up Sep 18 15:33:50 TiagoTiago_: Ovi has a bug where it will shutdown/power up the gps every often Sep 18 15:33:54 s/peds/speeds Sep 18 15:34:03 ah, that sucks Sep 18 15:34:04 Not a bug. A feature! Sep 18 15:34:06 so any application keeping gps on will "fix it" Sep 18 15:34:41 RST38h, of course, its for.... POWER SAVING THATS IT! Sep 18 15:34:43 * lolloo is looking for GPSjinni. Sep 18 15:36:01 i think "jinni" might be a brandname, there is a bunch of progs ending in "jinni" Sep 18 15:36:24 hahaha Sep 18 15:36:29 why are the lemmings NOT swarming the council thread? Sep 18 15:37:18 because council is inconsequential Sep 18 15:37:32 isn't even considered the right keyword Sep 18 15:37:38 or perhaps the word "council" sounds too smart for them? Sep 18 15:38:10 or perhaps just simply boring Sep 18 15:38:10 clearly not, as they made a 300-page thread when someone thought the council's mission with "getting more features into my device". Sep 18 15:38:24 lol Sep 18 15:38:38 *confused. Sep 18 15:38:53 Imagine windows CE with multiboot on N900 Sep 18 15:38:58 javispedro: Oh, the keyword there was "features" Sep 18 15:39:19 javispedro: You are just confused by the accidental mention of "council" in that thread Sep 18 15:40:01 * javispedro sighs Sep 18 15:40:11 javispedro: But yes, the whole maemo.org looks like a hastily abandoned research project now Sep 18 15:40:15 i tend to stay away fromt he council talk 'cause i hardly remember anyone's name much less who said what, and they probably have much deeper things to worry about than whatever i might say Sep 18 15:40:59 I hate Android Sep 18 15:41:04 javispedro: Windows wide open, paper all over the place, cages broken, hungry white mice running around in anticipation of eventual death of cold and starvation Sep 18 15:41:28 don't forget headcrabs Sep 18 15:41:42 RST38h: read http://blog.jeremiahfoster.com/?p=253 ? :) Sep 18 15:41:43 yea, that too, but there are fewer of them now Sep 18 15:41:53 hi, is it possible to use usb networking for internet on n900? for now the UI does not reckognize it Sep 18 15:41:59 they died of hunger fromt he lack of heads? Sep 18 15:42:11 Tiago: Oh, what wonderful headcrabs have we seen before your time! Sep 18 15:42:35 sobczyk: you need libicd-network-usb if you want the proper but possibly a bit hard to install solution, or libicd-network-dummy which is iirc avail on extras and is the "easy half-assed solution". Sep 18 15:42:36 Tiago: they moved on, headcrabs only attach to individuals with a brain Sep 18 15:43:09 ah, seems libicd-network-usb is also on -devel now. Sep 18 15:43:14 isn't there instructions for that int he wiki? Sep 18 15:43:27 javispedro:well, jeremiah just confirmed my assessment of the situation :) Sep 18 15:43:41 TiagoTiago_: yes, about the -dummy one. Sep 18 15:43:53 -usb has support for autoconnection, detection of cable removal, etc. etc. Sep 18 15:44:07 javispedro: I do wonder how things transform once the next device (Harmattan? or proper Meego?) is out Sep 18 15:44:11 what about that pc-connectivity-manager thingy? Sep 18 15:44:48 javispedro: BTW, makes me wonder how people working on Harmattan feel, do they expect their work to migrate to Meego with minimal changes? Sep 18 15:45:11 RST38h: I have no idea. Tbh I predicted m.o would die earlier. Seems there's an influx of new users I didn't predict though Sep 18 15:45:13 Whats up with Meego? Sep 18 15:45:20 the change of name from Maemo really fucked things up, there is like 4 devices in that site, and now they changed the name and it's a matter of "us VS them" :/ Sep 18 15:45:23 RST38h: ah, about Harmattan. Sep 18 15:45:24 so many hype about it, why? Sep 18 15:45:40 RST38h: since Meego is not exactly any unified kind of project (other than the common Qt baseline API) Sep 18 15:45:49 RST38h: "harmattan" will be Meego Handset and that's about it Sep 18 15:46:08 javispedro: on top of debian base? Sep 18 15:46:46 RST38h: guess not. there's not much work done on the "debian base" either. Sep 18 15:46:59 possibly because someone knows they're going to drop it. Sep 18 15:47:15 javispedro: I remember Nokians saying that Harmattan will still be Maemo, just called Meego for marketing purposes Sep 18 15:47:30 RST38h, that's the rough idea Sep 18 15:47:46 javispedro: Which makes me wonder what the core of the Harmattangoingto be Sep 18 15:48:00 RST38h, a hacked up Debian, like Maemo 5 Sep 18 15:48:03 debs etc. Sep 18 15:48:04 RST38h: afaik: harmattan = maemo + "meegotouch". meego handset = meego "core" + "meegotouch". Sep 18 15:48:24 so yes they will kill the "distro" parts of maemo but keep the GUI. Sep 18 15:48:25 javispedro: meegotouch is a library layer Sep 18 15:48:35 can you guys tell me why we're using busybox again? Sep 18 15:48:42 instead of, you know, true coreutils Sep 18 15:48:48 space? Sep 18 15:48:52 kerio, in MeeGo or MeeGo/Harmattan? Sep 18 15:48:58 in maemo Sep 18 15:49:04 i hope they didn't keep it on meego Sep 18 15:49:09 javispedro: so, the question is wjether harmattan and meego will share the apps layer Sep 18 15:49:12 kerio, MeeGo has coreutils Sep 18 15:49:18 yay Sep 18 15:49:19 if I connect n900 as mass storage, the network still works? Sep 18 15:49:21 kerio, Harmattan will use busybox probably though Sep 18 15:49:25 what the fuck Sep 18 15:49:28 RST38h: you know the official answer: "Use Qt, Luke." Sep 18 15:49:41 javispedro: which does not answer the question of course :) Sep 18 15:49:41 suppose I have a package Sep 18 15:49:54 kerio, again, as we are currently discussing, Harmattan is basically Maemo 6 renamed. Sep 18 15:49:54 and I'm splitting it into two, one for the UI, and one for the modules Sep 18 15:49:58 javispedro: especially considering that there is 1) generic qt 2) meegotouch and 3) symbian qt ui Sep 18 15:50:02 The core is still the same, the UI is changed Sep 18 15:50:06 then I make the UI depend on the modules Sep 18 15:50:11 RST38h: the official answer is: "you do not need to use meegotouch" Sep 18 15:50:23 will dpkg complain that it's trying to overwrite when I upgrade both? Sep 18 15:50:27 kerio, therefore, busybox is still likely to be used in Harmattan Sep 18 15:50:33 I have to see how much "native" you can get without resorting to meegotouch. Sep 18 15:50:37 then harmattan will suck balls Sep 18 15:50:39 javispedro: Really? Is it because it is useless or because it does not currently work on Maemo5? =) Sep 18 15:50:45 javispedro: the point is that you should use qt mobility Sep 18 15:51:01 and it will automagically work (yeah, right) with every mobile device that uses qt Sep 18 15:51:13 kerio: as I once said, midlets reinvented. Sep 18 15:51:27 =) Sep 18 15:51:29 then again, i don't really know what we're talking about Sep 18 15:51:35 so we might as well talk about bacon Sep 18 15:51:39 :) Sep 18 15:51:49 :) Sep 18 15:51:50 * RST38h even ported EMULib to meegotouch before finding out that there are no meegotouch libs for Maemo5 Sep 18 15:52:11 port meegotouch to Maemo5? Sep 18 15:52:18 it's already there. Sep 18 15:52:22 of course, it looks hardly native. Sep 18 15:52:29 is it? where? Sep 18 15:52:40 it has been ported but there is no usable package in the repos Sep 18 15:52:48 some linkage conflicts, I have heard Sep 18 15:52:54 wow Sep 18 15:53:09 I would like to check it out Sep 18 15:53:13 I have at least run widgetsgallery on fremantle from the repos Sep 18 15:53:17 anyone? Sep 18 15:53:24 so it worked "once upon a time" :) Sep 18 15:53:32 hahaha Sep 18 15:53:44 yea, it works Sep 18 15:54:08 the demo, I mean ;) Sep 18 15:54:25 i want somthing that makes a video game "you've won" TADAH! sound when the battery is full Sep 18 15:54:59 TiagoTiago_, a video game will stop the battery becoming full Sep 18 15:55:07 no TADAH for you Sep 18 15:55:07 ok, time to go hunt down some dinner Sep 18 15:55:12 lol Sep 18 15:55:32 Termana, he wants a ' Sep 18 15:55:34 "Review on OVERCLOCKED n900 AND RISKS of oc " Sep 18 15:55:42 'video game you've won tadah'sonud Sep 18 15:55:46 RST38h: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dailydish/2009/05/bak47-the-gun-that-will-revolt-and-defeat-terrorists.html Sep 18 15:55:50 not a video game Sep 18 15:55:56 lol Sep 18 15:56:00 Hahaha Sep 18 15:56:06 lol Sep 18 15:56:35 TiagoTiago_, learn to use commas :P Sep 18 15:57:19 where would the commas go in that sentence? Sep 18 15:58:03 nevermind :P Sep 18 15:58:10 It's just how i read it :P Sep 18 15:58:16 You'll definitely see the N900 as a reference device for the 1.1 release and most likely the 1.2 release. 1.3 is anybody's guess at this stage, since its not planned for/on the roadmap. Sep 18 15:58:21 lol Sep 18 15:58:30 meego Sep 18 15:59:00 I want something that makes a video game's "you've won!" sound effect. <-- not a comma but does the job of diluting the vagueness Sep 18 15:59:02 http://wiki.meego.com/images/Nexus3.jpg Sep 18 15:59:10 too much free time.... must do something productive.... Sep 18 15:59:22 lolcat, please do not copy and paste what I say Sep 18 15:59:28 damn it Sep 18 15:59:35 lolloo, please do not copy and paste what I say Sep 18 16:00:06 hahaha Sep 18 16:00:15 Termana: half the channel is /ignoring him Sep 18 16:00:22 sorry is it offending? Sep 18 16:00:28 javispedro, rightfully so Sep 18 16:01:28 * MNZ preps a mint tea. Sep 18 16:02:36 i have not seen a reason for such extreme measures so far Sep 18 16:02:49 anyone remembers the name of project for n900 to improve camera image quality by using accelerometer? Sep 18 16:03:37 i remember the fcam peeps tried using an experimental Nokia bluetooth gyroscope Sep 18 16:04:07 nokia camera is slow when taking pictures Sep 18 16:04:19 how do one solve that issue? Sep 18 16:05:09 somthing about liquid helium i think Sep 18 16:05:16 tracy and I managed to get great shots of a fire breathing dragon with out n900s Sep 18 16:05:20 do you guys recommend better app for camera than the stock one? Sep 18 16:05:23 oh yes that one, thx TiagoTiago_ Sep 18 16:05:33 with our * Sep 18 16:05:53 Hi, I just quickly glanced at the backlog. What's the official plan for Maemo 6? I mean in relation to MeeGo? I saw "MeeGo/Harmattan" but I'm not sure what that means Sep 18 16:06:01 * lcuk used to take crap photos, but now I have learnt to breath and take considered shots Sep 18 16:06:13 I tried blessN900 for photos, but you have to have really steady hand or the photos won't look great Sep 18 16:06:24 night photos Sep 18 16:06:40 yes your right Sep 18 16:06:48 and your left too Sep 18 16:06:56 lol Sep 18 16:06:56 need to smoke first before taking a pic Sep 18 16:06:58 or you won't be able to keep the n900 steady Sep 18 16:07:13 anyone got weed Sep 18 16:07:31 calm my nerves Sep 18 16:07:32 n900 can use SDIO? Sep 18 16:07:41 whats that? Sep 18 16:07:52 people were talking about GPIO here the other day, it's ont he wiki Sep 18 16:07:54 plg in devicein SD card port Sep 18 16:08:14 is it possible to use device speakers and headphone output at the same time, with different audio to both outputs? Sep 18 16:08:26 ie. accelerometer or gps, though it's there already Sep 18 16:08:51 a gyro or compass would be more usefull with the N900 Sep 18 16:09:44 just made me wonder and makinga google search for SDIO gyro Sep 18 16:11:09 don't forget the slot int he N900 is a microSD, not mini Sep 18 16:11:42 i dunno fi there are adapters from big to small Sep 18 16:12:42 TiagoTiago_: there are - I use one for the micro card in my normal size slot in the eeepc Sep 18 16:13:16 i mean the other way around Sep 18 16:14:11 why wouldn't a gyro fir in a micro slot? Sep 18 16:14:16 fit Sep 18 16:16:04 TiagoTiago_, umm Sep 18 16:16:16 i imagine it's more likelly you would find bigger ones Sep 18 16:16:27 if it cannot fit in the slot Sep 18 16:16:38 at original size Sep 18 16:16:54 then where will it live Sep 18 16:17:23 it will not be in the slot, the adapter will have a dangling apendage Sep 18 16:19:04 the appendage that will go in the tight slot Sep 18 16:19:05 l0up, that's not possible without some considerable kernel hacking Sep 18 16:25:52 dude, it does not sound like sd cards are being discussed here Sep 18 16:26:24 lol Sep 18 16:28:44 anyone know if there's any way of disabling flip-to-silence feature on N900? Sep 18 16:36:03 MNZ: damn, would've been nice.. thought of coding portable djstudio as a hobbyproject :) Sep 18 16:36:57 l0up, if you are up for the job really I can look into it and see if it's actually possible Sep 18 16:38:02 would be very nice! i think i could use that feature also on another project im working on (simple stepsequencer/sampler) Sep 18 16:38:29 TTOTD: When querying phone tower/cell/LAC info... make sure your N900 has a SIM card in it... Sep 18 16:39:09 l0up, is this stuff on garage? links? Sep 18 16:39:19 jaffa, doesnt the device see towers and cells anyway? Sep 18 16:39:21 without a sim Sep 18 16:39:40 ie, don't certain countries define still requiring connectivity for emergency services even sans sim Sep 18 16:39:48 or am I misremembering something Sep 18 16:39:50 lcuk: Nope, cos it's a side-effect of being *registered* with a towwr Sep 18 16:40:04 MNZ: not yet, just started real coding last week.. lots of planning and qt learning done :) Sep 18 16:40:21 lcuk: No, you atill need a SIM - just some countries mandate being able to call 1q2 over any network. Sep 18 16:40:26 Not the UK tho' Sep 18 16:40:42 Which is stupid. Sep 18 16:40:44 * SpeedEvil sighs. Sep 18 16:41:21 l0up, heck I'll gladly take a break from my current blocked state and see what I can do about that :P Sep 18 16:41:39 if the law requried, would it be possible to call emergency numbers even without a sim? Sep 18 16:41:40 l0up, if you are into this audio stuff, are you familiar with IIR filters and/or parametric EQs ? Sep 18 16:42:22 TiagoTiago_: NAFAIK. You execute code on the SIM and the modem *needs* it Sep 18 16:43:20 yeah - no SIM - at+COPS=? Sep 18 16:43:20 ERROR Sep 18 16:43:23 oh, I thought the SIM was only about identification stuff and storing numbers and SMSs etc Sep 18 16:43:32 yes you can place a call without SIM Sep 18 16:44:20 phone will just signal any nearby basestation that it wants to make emergency call, and BS will kick out existing callers if necessary to make room on air Sep 18 16:44:49 MNZ: cool! lemme know what you can get out of it.. no, not familiar with filters/eqs (atleast not yet), just started reading about what one can do with phonon Sep 18 16:44:54 Or it will utterly ignore you in the UK. Sep 18 16:45:20 MNZ: only familiar w/ eqs and filters as a user :) Sep 18 16:45:38 SpeedEvil, well at least on GSM it's requirement to allow emergency calls, even though possible keypad lock Sep 18 16:45:50 l0up, ah.. oh well. And phonon :/ Sep 18 16:45:50 can they track you if you start a DOS initiating emergency calls over and over again, never actually completing it, just going far enough for the base station to give you highre priority? Sep 18 16:46:25 TiagoTiago_, yeah they'll know your IMEI at least Sep 18 16:46:48 and it can be blacklisted if it's clearly malfunctioning terminal Sep 18 16:47:36 but there's easier ways to do denial-of-service on base station if that's what someone wants to do Sep 18 16:48:55 i wonder what's gonna happen when people finally break the codes cellphone makers need to keep secret to avoid people messing with the networks and shit hits the fan Sep 18 16:49:25 Well - it's fairly broken now. Sep 18 16:49:36 there's no big secrets Sep 18 16:49:44 wasn't it just gsm? Sep 18 16:49:44 MNZ: well phonon was fist hit when googling about audio/media related info for qt. got better suggestions?:) Sep 18 16:49:52 For several 10s of K, and a fair bit of programming now, you can do cracking in near realtime of calls. Sep 18 16:50:30 if it's not a secret anymore, why was it necessary for Nokia to waste money walling the cell modem and stuff from us? Sep 18 16:50:50 TiagoTiago_: Because it is unlawful in many places to sell 'hacking equipment' Sep 18 16:51:06 Which is what - at least in UK law - the n900 would be once it was abused. Sep 18 16:51:08 l0up, no, not really. I'm just not a fan :D Sep 18 16:51:19 The retailer is then obliged to fix it, or is liable to jailtime. Sep 18 16:51:32 what is there to fix when the secret is out? Sep 18 16:51:48 3G is more resistant to attacks Sep 18 16:52:35 wouldn't it be easier and plug directly into cables at base station? :) Sep 18 16:53:02 MNZ: hehe ok:) well i try to manage with that for start Sep 18 16:53:21 since you guys seem to know about this security stuff, lemme ask you somthing, can my GSM account have been cloned if i've kept all my old SIM cards of this account with me? (assuming "bad guys" haven't got physical access to any of my SIM cards) Sep 18 16:54:17 As I understand it - cloning of SIMs is not possible over-the-air. Sep 18 16:54:31 With very old SIMs, you can crack the codes out of them Sep 18 16:56:06 Hi Sep 18 16:57:28 but i've got all the old SIMs (over the time i've asked the carrier to upgrade my SIM, for more memory, or even just to get clean undented contacts, but i still have my old ones), so there is no chance my account has been cloned, unless the people in the store cloned the SIMs under the counter, correct? Sep 18 17:00:39 hello Sep 18 17:01:37 As I understand, no Sep 18 17:01:44 l0up, well turning on both headphone and speaker (same output) is already possible with things as they are (though you will _probably_ need a little patch I wrote for speaker protection... long story) Sep 18 17:02:06 can i read the long story somehwere? Sep 18 17:02:50 l0up, different outputs though, that will require a considerable change to how the audio codec is used on the N900. Probably not a good idea for everyday use Sep 18 17:03:14 might also help with that idea of using the N900 as a hearing aid Sep 18 17:03:44 MNZ: thought so:F well maybe i'll just ditch the djstudio project and get my focus on the sampler/sequencer Sep 18 17:03:45 in brief it would render the headphone unusable for 'normal' playback Sep 18 17:04:07 l0up, I believe that would be a good idea, yeah Sep 18 17:04:25 TiagoTiago_, long story has been discussed several times here, not going to recount :P Sep 18 17:04:31 you can't like create virtual soundcards, and redirect the outputs? Sep 18 17:04:47 there should be enough work in one project as i havent got the time :P Sep 18 17:04:51 ah, it was only told in chat? :/ Sep 18 17:06:20 TiagoTiago_, short version: PulseAudio protects speakers by removing bass signals. We can do that in HW instead. Sep 18 17:06:27 is there some sort of general intro to qml somewhere? I seem to be failing on some very basic stuff. Like how can I access something that is a child of something from outside the parent? Sep 18 17:06:44 hm Sep 18 17:06:50 what is wrong with bass? Sep 18 17:07:28 TiagoTiago_, cheap n900 speakers will die a snappy death when confronted with bass, rumor has it. Sep 18 17:07:40 that sucks :( Sep 18 17:08:28 why those tiny earphones can handle bass so nicelly but speakers in the N900 can't? Sep 18 17:10:00 TiagoTiago_, well the speakers have to do it a lot louder. Sep 18 17:10:06 hm Sep 18 17:11:21 does the N900 at least does that fake bass with the, i forgot the name now, those fainter lines on top of the main frequency in a spectograph ? Sep 18 17:12:07 it makes sense to strip bass from speakers that can't handle it though. Would make the sound crackle otherwise. Sep 18 17:27:36 MNZ: would the audio codec work with hypotetical usb soundcards? Sep 18 17:29:29 kerio, sorry I don't follow. The audio codec is a chip on board Sep 18 17:29:47 if you want to plug a USB sound card, then by all means go ahead. It just needs to have support (a driver) under linux Sep 18 17:29:50 yeah but would it be able to route audio through an external soundcard? Sep 18 17:30:00 with minor effort on the cpu part Sep 18 17:30:19 no it wouldn't. Audio would have to be explicitly sent to the sound card through ALSA Sep 18 17:30:25 :( Sep 18 17:30:27 oh well Sep 18 17:31:03 and besides, you would need host mode first :D Sep 18 17:31:15 what is the name of those fainter lines above the main freuqnecy in a spectograph? Sep 18 17:31:16 well of course Sep 18 17:31:26 hmm... peak lines? Sep 18 17:31:31 no, wait Sep 18 17:31:35 what lines Sep 18 17:32:18 in a spectograph, with a pure sine wave, above the bright line at the frequency of the sound, there are a bunch of fainter lines that follow it Sep 18 17:32:56 ah, i think that might be it, "harmonics" Sep 18 17:35:01 there is a trick for faking bass on speakers that don't make bass that low, it involves reinforcing the harmonics of the bass frequencies that the speaker can play, and the brain will imagine there is actually true bass comming from the speakers Sep 18 17:35:45 the harmonics the speaker can play for the bass they can't Sep 18 17:37:16 it's an auditory illusion Sep 18 18:23:50 hmm Sep 18 18:23:54 how long is the election open? Sep 18 18:24:09 frals: Ends Wednesday, 23:59 UTC Sep 18 18:24:16 Jaffa: ty Sep 18 18:24:24 not aligned with the swedish election then, typical! ;) Sep 18 18:24:48 frals: One's much more importants ;-) Sep 18 18:25:16 frals: Oh, when I was in Stockholm a couple of weeks ago and saw all the posters, is it the law that they must all take the same format of inconsequential background, portrait shot and a few words? Sep 18 18:25:31 Jaffa: lol Sep 18 18:25:46 Jaffa: no, they are all just useless :-) Sep 18 18:26:12 frals: Ah, OK. So much for Swedish design ;-) Sep 18 18:26:24 jaffa, how you your youtube video coming on? Sep 18 18:26:45 Jaffa: yeah.. they should probably hire IKEA designers henceforth ;D Sep 18 18:27:10 lcuk: It's pushed back until I can get some of the Swedish election organisers on my staff Sep 18 18:27:46 heh Sep 18 18:39:20 i think i'll go sleep now finally, cya Sep 18 18:40:37 night TiagoTiago_ Sep 18 18:42:55 errr Sep 18 18:43:05 my device is umm not responding Sep 18 18:43:26 lcuk: Have you tried CPR? Sep 18 18:44:00 SpeedEvil, i tried SMS Sep 18 18:44:06 i tohught battery had gone Sep 18 18:44:11 and was looking for cable Sep 18 18:44:18 then a sms came in Sep 18 18:45:06 which showed me it was still awake, how odd Sep 18 19:09:25 moin Sep 18 19:10:54 wiki Sep 18 19:13:49 Anyone knows how to export variables from a shell running iinside Screen so that it is accesible from next created screen window? the obvious export is not working for me.... Sep 18 19:14:10 ShadSEC2: screen -X setenv VAR VAL Sep 18 19:14:24 ShadSEC2: export of course only applies to the current shell and its children Sep 18 19:14:40 lindi, but the variables get created once main script is already running inside screen Sep 18 19:14:53 ShadSEC2: you can run screen -X inside screen Sep 18 19:15:17 and its that same script the one that is launching another script inside a new screen window Sep 18 19:15:38 ShadSEC2: sounds complex. what variable is it? Sep 18 19:16:07 lindi, I see, but do I have to pass all the vars I want to export in the -X when creating the screen? Sep 18 19:16:20 that's the problem, there are many vars I want to have accesible Sep 18 19:16:57 ShadSEC2: save them to a file and source that file from the scripts that need them? Sep 18 19:17:02 all are variables created during the execution of main script Sep 18 19:17:37 yep, if theres not other way that's what ill have to do, but its soo ugly :( Sep 18 19:18:00 ShadSEC2: depends on what variables they are :) Sep 18 19:18:04 so I was just wondering if there were some "clean" way Sep 18 19:18:16 what do you mean? Sep 18 19:18:33 ShadSEC2: I don't know, show me the source and I might be able to suggest a more targeted guess :) Sep 18 19:19:53 The source is already more than 40Kb of script :P Sep 18 19:20:17 ShadSEC2: you might be doing it wrong :P Sep 18 19:21:02 They are just variables like AP_MAC, AP_ESSID, CLIENT_MAC, etc.... that I want to have exported for plugins to main program that may be able to use those already set variables Sep 18 19:21:40 that way, the plugin code runs as if it were part of the main program... well, a plugin.... Sep 18 19:22:15 lindi-, yep, theer are already many wrong things in my code :P Sep 18 19:22:38 ShadSEC2: plugins for a shell script? Sep 18 19:22:47 yep Sep 18 19:22:57 This is new. Interesting. Sep 18 19:23:22 perhaps plugin is not the right word.. but intended functionality is that Sep 18 19:24:04 ShadSEC2: usually these "plugins" are children of the main program Sep 18 19:24:14 so you can just inherit environment variablesa Sep 18 19:25:31 it is a children Sep 18 19:25:58 ShadSEC2: then it should inherit the environment variables automatically Sep 18 19:26:03 but for some reason, exported variables from main script are not being accesible in spawned screens Sep 18 19:26:20 yep, thats what I thought Sep 18 19:26:27 ShadSEC2: are you sure they are children? Sep 18 19:26:50 ShadSEC2: look at "ps --forest -eo pid,cmd" Sep 18 19:27:08 lemme check Sep 18 19:35:53 lindi-, I am not sure what to look for..... Sep 18 19:36:49 ShadSEC2: can you put the output online? Sep 18 19:38:17 that would a be a bit complex while the program is running... ill redirect to file and transfer afterwards Sep 18 19:38:41 but now I think the child it is not of the main script running Sep 18 19:38:47 but a child of screen itself Sep 18 19:39:05 ShadSEC2: that's what I guessed too Sep 18 19:39:32 screen -t "plugin" xxxxx/plugin <- this is how it is spawned Sep 18 19:39:54 even if it is being spawned from the main script it is screen creating it Sep 18 19:40:01 yes Sep 18 19:40:43 so.... better stop thinking about it, and just export the vars to file and source it from the plugin? Sep 18 19:40:59 ShadSEC2: is screen really a dependency of your app? Sep 18 19:41:08 absolutely Sep 18 19:41:33 in fact what my app does is managing several process running in different screens Sep 18 19:41:40 hmm :) Sep 18 19:42:46 well, Ill do the export and sourcing so that I can go on, and Ill have time to rethink it sometime later... Sep 18 19:42:50 thanks lindi- Sep 18 19:43:33 i have a problem here.sometimes my desktop freeze it means.no shortcuts or widget doesn't click.but task menu works and clickable and i habe to open my softwares from app manager not shortcut from desktop.i have to shutdown my phone and turn it on again and its very boring Sep 18 19:43:59 how can i restart my desktop and shortcuts or solve my problems? Sep 18 19:44:50 without reboot phone Sep 18 19:46:13 killall hildon-desktop might work Sep 18 19:46:40 or it might force a reboot your phone if hildon-desktop can't be restarted quickly enough Sep 18 19:47:35 if i kill hildon.my shortcuts doesn't appear Sep 18 19:48:12 it can take a bit of time Sep 18 19:49:44 i did killall Sep 18 19:50:47 i don't have no shortcuts on my desktops and widgets.how to appear them? Sep 18 19:52:03 when you killall hildon-desktop the system should restart it Sep 18 19:52:11 if it didn't you probably need to reboot Sep 18 19:53:32 great i asked here for not rebooting.there is no way to restart my widgets Sep 18 19:54:30 I said it might work *shrugs* Sep 18 19:54:55 it's worked for me plenty of times, but it sounds like something else is wrong if this happens all the time Sep 18 19:55:09 * lcuk slides down a firemans pole and into the chan Sep 18 19:55:32 * MNZ starts a fire Sep 18 19:56:46 if i clicked on settings icon i can see close icon on the shortcuts but shortcuts doesn't appear Sep 18 19:57:21 MNZ, !!! Sep 18 19:57:46 mintux, try this '/etc/init.d/hildon-desktop start' Sep 18 19:57:48 I watched ghostbusters last night, best movie I have seen in ages Sep 18 19:58:08 really well done with an expansive workup and terric story Sep 18 19:58:22 which movies over 5 years old have you seen recently? :p Sep 18 19:58:46 lcuk, Nell Sep 18 20:09:55 MNZ, was it good? Sep 18 20:10:25 lcuk, beyond amazing. Though not everyone's cup of tea I'd imagine. Sep 18 20:13:37 hello, what is the first meego-phone called? Sep 18 20:13:45 n900s successor? Sep 18 20:14:12 i think there are only rumours (n9?) Sep 18 20:14:24 oh. Sep 18 20:14:46 any estimates on when it will be out? Sep 18 20:14:54 lcuk: (not 5 years old) have you watched Kick-Ass? Sep 18 20:15:11 im considering whether or not to buy the n900, trying to find out if im making a mistake buying old hardware Sep 18 20:15:12 xqo, I'm under the impression it comes out some time late this year Sep 18 20:15:20 oh, okay. Sep 18 20:15:25 old hardware? it's not even 1 year old Sep 18 20:15:36 I think it's likely it'll be announced during the MeeGo conference in november Sep 18 20:16:18 even still, it has half the ram of todays phones, only 3g and it is pretty expensive for being so old. Sep 18 20:16:38 but as far as i can tell, there are no alternatives with the same kind of freedom Sep 18 20:16:52 or? Sep 18 20:18:57 no Sep 18 20:18:58 only 3g? Sep 18 20:19:00 :o Sep 18 20:19:06 buy it and try it Sep 18 20:19:19 it's some really dope shit Sep 18 20:19:51 it's really worth it Sep 18 20:19:59 even though it has some really, REALLY stupid flaws Sep 18 20:20:03 like what? Sep 18 20:20:15 it is going to be some kind of technological achievement in the future anyway Sep 18 20:20:17 pulseaudio, the bme, busybox, optification Sep 18 20:20:41 whats that, kerio Sep 18 20:20:56 and as a smartphone, you don't really get smart options Sep 18 20:21:01 ughh, n900 won't get past the bright NOKIA screen now, then it just turns itself off Sep 18 20:21:14 im contemplating whether or not to get the n900, the HTC Desire, or the Samsung Galaxy S. Sep 18 20:21:16 it got a few raindrops on it last night but really very little :/ Sep 18 20:21:18 what do you think? Sep 18 20:21:30 xqo: stupid audio system, stupid battery system, stupid shell environment, stupid file hierarchy Sep 18 20:21:34 xqo: buy the n900 Sep 18 20:21:37 it's worth it Sep 18 20:21:56 well I prefer desire more as a phone, but didn't get use to it's touch screen for writing (ircing) Sep 18 20:22:17 and all the services and applications worked like a charm Sep 18 20:22:24 web browsing was flawless Sep 18 20:22:30 xqo: see, those are phones Sep 18 20:22:32 the n900 is a tablet Sep 18 20:22:36 but n900 is still a superb toy Sep 18 20:22:45 the n900 is *the* toy Sep 18 20:22:51 I think the "tablet" designation got moved up a couple inches ;) Sep 18 20:22:52 yep :) Sep 18 20:23:22 im looking for a phone to call and text with, but i want some freedom, that i hear android doesnt really have? Sep 18 20:23:36 xqo: the day after the one i bought the n900, i was busy changing the X11 keymap files to have more symbols Sep 18 20:23:42 is n900 no good as a phone? assuming the user is a nerd Sep 18 20:23:43 that's the level of freedom Sep 18 20:23:59 huh? why would a nerd need a phone to call Sep 18 20:24:29 ;) Sep 18 20:24:42 but what do you think? n900 as phone or no? Sep 18 20:24:42 it's fine as a phone Sep 18 20:24:43 btw can you turn off that blinking of screen when someone calls you? :) Sep 18 20:25:02 hard to hit the accept call button :) Sep 18 20:25:03 nerds need a "phone" to surf the web, chat on IRC and watch pr0n Sep 18 20:25:15 wmarone, really? it doesnt sound too bad, but someone mentioned it is kind of clunky because you have to start the gsm-app and stuff before you can call Sep 18 20:25:23 gsm-app? :o Sep 18 20:25:24 gsm-app? Sep 18 20:25:26 are you kidding Sep 18 20:25:29 I hit the phone icon and call :) Sep 18 20:25:56 xqo: are you a nerd? Sep 18 20:25:59 if you are, then buy it Sep 18 20:26:02 you won't regret ir Sep 18 20:26:03 it Sep 18 20:26:13 so if i want a phone i can install whatever i want on, use the debian-repositories, use a terminal, use python, and call/send SMS with, ill get the n900? Sep 18 20:26:23 yup Sep 18 20:26:40 yep Sep 18 20:27:00 xqo: no Sep 18 20:27:10 luke-jr: huh Sep 18 20:27:10 only when you multitask `too much' it can get a bit slow bc of swapping :) Sep 18 20:27:15 xqo: you can't install whatever you want on N900 Sep 18 20:27:26 alright, but still, it is kind of old yes? and MeeGo is coming. Will it not be just outdated hardware? Sep 18 20:27:33 xqo: the specs aren't open enough Sep 18 20:27:45 it's already outdated hardware, really Sep 18 20:27:49 i thought the stack was free, and the schematics were leaked, luke-jr? Sep 18 20:27:49 256 MB RAM is so 2009 Sep 18 20:28:12 xqo: schematics don't give you enough to write drivers Sep 18 20:28:13 we have no idea when the n9 will be on the shelves Sep 18 20:28:39 there's only two system binaries, SGX and BME Sep 18 20:28:43 this one, kerio? http://img.gfx.no/722/722463/topp.788x554!.jpg Sep 18 20:28:58 xqo: yeah, the NokBook Pro Sep 18 20:29:03 :) Sep 18 20:29:15 wmarone: BME is replaced, practically Sep 18 20:29:23 good, then only one left Sep 18 20:29:25 my cat is more cute Sep 18 20:29:27 but I don't think SGX stands alone yet Sep 18 20:29:34 * luke-jr ponders what else Sep 18 20:29:37 the only bits left, IIRC, are firmware Sep 18 20:29:42 Adeon: does your cat run MeeGo? Sep 18 20:29:58 I think it runs some sort of feline OS Sep 18 20:30:01 wmarone: NOLO Sep 18 20:30:06 yes, nolo Sep 18 20:30:12 that's not firmware. Sep 18 20:30:12 it doesn't have a proper user interface Sep 18 20:30:18 and of course the thing that runs on rapuyama Sep 18 20:30:26 you know, the phone Sep 18 20:30:29 kerio: that's firmware, from the N900 standpoint Sep 18 20:31:39 i've heard that n9 is coming q1/2011 Sep 18 20:31:44 then.. buy n900 or wait? Sep 18 20:31:53 xqo: depends on what you want Sep 18 20:31:57 xqo: and your budget Sep 18 20:32:11 if you can afford to buy another device within a year, get N900 Sep 18 20:32:26 cuz I don't expect another device to be remotely competitive with N900 before then Sep 18 20:32:52 if you're happy using Maemo and MeeGo, N900 should also be fine Sep 18 20:32:52 not to mention the n9 will cost a lot, especially on day1 Sep 18 20:32:54 but its just a rumour and no NDA broken Sep 18 20:33:22 pexi: "just a rumor" = COOL STORY, BRO Sep 18 20:33:32 yep ;) Sep 18 20:33:36 s/rumor/rumour/ Sep 18 20:33:37 kerio meant: pexi: "just a rumour" = COOL STORY, BRO Sep 18 20:33:39 pexi: I heard it was coming out in a week Sep 18 20:33:56 reflashed and still won't finishing turning on :( Sep 18 20:33:57 what about the desire? Sep 18 20:33:58 I heard it too. It was very loud. Sep 18 20:33:58 my wife heard it was coming out in 2012 Sep 18 20:34:15 johnsq: you're lying Sep 18 20:34:18 also reflash the eMMC too Sep 18 20:34:24 my 2 year old says we're both wrong, and it's coming out 2043 Sep 18 20:34:28 xqo, solid smartphone with great user experience, only lacks physical keyboard Sep 18 20:34:39 kerio: did both Sep 18 20:34:43 pexi, but compared to the n900? Sep 18 20:34:49 xqo: N900 isn't a phone. If you want a phone, get something else Sep 18 20:34:55 and the price was really cheap in here for a while.. like 260e Sep 18 20:35:02 some operator campaing Sep 18 20:35:04 xqo: you can't compare a phone to a non-phone, unless you mean strictly hardware Sep 18 20:35:13 xqo: the N900 is a tiny computer that also does some phone calls and sends a couple of SMSes Sep 18 20:35:36 n900 > n9 by approximately n890 Sep 18 20:35:37 xqo, well, it depends what you want to do Sep 18 20:35:44 it's a smartsmartphone Sep 18 20:35:55 while connected to USB power, it just has the grayed-out screen, and does a quick vibration every minute or so Sep 18 20:36:07 but how well does it work for that? Im buying this because i need something to call/sms with, but also because i want something fun to play with. Sep 18 20:36:10 green light is solid on Sep 18 20:36:21 is it shit to use as a phone? Sep 18 20:36:25 nah, it's fine Sep 18 20:36:33 as we have stated, buy it and try it - u can get cheap used one and sell it if u don't like it :) Sep 18 20:36:42 xqo: if you don't mind waiting 5 seconds before you can answer calls Sep 18 20:36:50 xqo: and don't need MMS Sep 18 20:36:50 luke-jr: that's a gross overestimation Sep 18 20:36:55 kerio: not at all Sep 18 20:37:01 also why can't the guy that's calling you wait for 5 seconds Sep 18 20:37:01 * johnsu01 has mms and does not wait that long to answer a call Sep 18 20:37:15 what do you mean, is it sluggish or something? Sep 18 20:37:16 kerio: by the time my N900 gets the call, he's already waited 4 or 5 Sep 18 20:37:24 what about the blinking screen? can you hack it? Sep 18 20:37:27 johnsu01: no you don't, your n900 is FUBAR Sep 18 20:37:29 xqo: very, over time; always, when rotating the screen Sep 18 20:37:34 kerio: yes :( Sep 18 20:37:40 (sorry, haven't googled it) Sep 18 20:37:45 kerio: err, I mean 4 or 5 rings there :p Sep 18 20:37:53 * johnsu01 checks the warranty Sep 18 20:38:05 xqo: the n900 still beats both those phones you mentioned, really Sep 18 20:38:13 xqo: reboot it once a week and it's just the 4-5 second rotation delay Sep 18 20:39:39 how big is it by the way? Sep 18 20:39:44 xqo: too small Sep 18 20:40:26 vy x by x de Mt Sep 18 20:40:27 luke-jr: MMS works fine :p Sep 18 20:40:42 frals: shameless plug eh Sep 18 20:40:45 ^^ Sep 18 20:40:45 frals: if "fine" means "not at all" Sep 18 20:40:56 luke-jr: WORKSFORME Sep 18 20:41:04 luke-jr lacks any and all tact Sep 18 20:41:07 * noobmonk3y needs a guniea-pig!! - anyone got their n900 and a headset to hand? Sep 18 20:41:24 noobmonk3y: ye Sep 18 20:41:27 wmarone++ Sep 18 20:41:34 frals - can you play something through it and test cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0060/volume Sep 18 20:41:47 xqo, my N900 has been working rather well. Other people seem to install background processes and 3rd party widgets and then wonder why things get slow over time Sep 18 20:41:48 just adding healthcheckythings, but got no headset :P hehe Sep 18 20:42:07 evening btw frals ;) Sep 18 20:42:21 was singing your praises on the UK vodafone forums last week, and got someones fmms working, hehehe Sep 18 20:42:30 johnx: so in other words you, to make it work sanely you need to not use it except as a phone? :P Sep 18 20:42:31 (Was only there to winge at them about something else!) Sep 18 20:42:53 johnx, recently, vasvlad released the xscreensavers along with the live wallpaper stuff Sep 18 20:42:56 http://wiki.maemo.org/Xscreensaver Sep 18 20:43:05 if you see the wiki page Sep 18 20:43:10 :P Sep 18 20:43:14 it includes information about how much cpu each uses Sep 18 20:43:20 luke-jr, 3rd party *apps* are fine. 3rd party daemons and widgets may or may not come with memory leaks. the N900 will not prevent you from doing something stupid, so use your own brain Sep 18 20:43:22 xqo, if you want python, n900 is your friend Sep 18 20:43:28 I wonder if we could get this sort of rating onto packages Sep 18 20:43:41 noobmonk3y: evenin :) Sep 18 20:43:44 so that when looking in on downloads Sep 18 20:43:52 you could say "show me the lightcpu ones only" Sep 18 20:43:52 though pys60 is nice too Sep 18 20:44:04 "show me the heavyweights" Sep 18 20:44:17 lcuk, hmmmm... more of a cpu tally! (Ie, all running at once = high load etc) Sep 18 20:44:21 DocScrutinizer, you also might know who else Sep 18 20:44:26 johnx: it's the PR1.2 included apps that leak Sep 18 20:44:27 one on its own, even being bad, wont be too evil Sep 18 20:44:31 SpeedEvil, etc Sep 18 20:44:32 daemons* Sep 18 20:44:43 luke-jr, which ones Sep 18 20:44:43 noobmonk3y: it seems to increase/decrese with volume Sep 18 20:44:48 yayyyyyyyy Sep 18 20:44:49 luke-jr, the most trouble I've had is with the web browser, and even that only happens on occasion Sep 18 20:44:52 lcuk: I forget. Check the logs for my study. Sep 18 20:45:04 can detect mute too, wohooooo Sep 18 20:45:06 please dig out the url and I will have a read Sep 18 20:45:10 xqo, when are you looking to buy? Sep 18 20:45:13 thanks frals :) Sep 18 20:45:17 lcuk: no idea Sep 18 20:45:19 monday, joelpet Sep 18 20:45:20 np :) Sep 18 20:45:21 hi noobmonk3y btw Sep 18 20:45:26 monday, johnsq Sep 18 20:45:27 and frals \o Sep 18 20:45:27 lcuk: I have no usable computer at the moment. Sep 18 20:45:29 monday, johnx Sep 18 20:45:32 hehe, heya lcuk! Sep 18 20:45:44 o/ lcuk Sep 18 20:46:21 ive almost decided to go for the n900, but i want to know how sluggish it really is? Sep 18 20:46:29 xqo, Meego world is happening in early November and almost certainly an announcement of some type will be made then. It might not mean a device is going on sale immediately though Sep 18 20:46:33 is luke-jr just being really negative, or does it get slow and sluggish? Sep 18 20:46:34 frals - anyidea on max/min? Sep 18 20:46:37 xqo: "nusance", not "useless" Sep 18 20:46:44 or min i assume is 0? Sep 18 20:46:50 xqo, luke-jr is very negative, and also has a bias against Nokia. ask him about it Sep 18 20:46:56 noobmonk3y: bah, closed everything.. i *think* i was at max and it said 37 or smth Sep 18 20:46:59 johnx: what bias? Sep 18 20:47:05 luke-jr, do you like Nokia? Sep 18 20:47:07 xqo, yes, you can overload your n900 Sep 18 20:47:08 xqo, mine is running smoothly :) - allways has, works fine :) Sep 18 20:47:10 just like any computer Sep 18 20:47:13 ty frals Sep 18 20:47:22 you are bring it to its knees if you try hard enough Sep 18 20:47:24 johnx: indifferent, if you exclude all the reasoned dislikes from their products Sep 18 20:47:44 there are coming interesting other meego phones also Sep 18 20:47:56 pexi: any links? Sep 18 20:48:05 but the system is strong, its pretty much 5 years of the best gtk ui and is as close to debian as you will see Sep 18 20:48:08 sorry Sep 18 20:48:10 :) Sep 18 20:48:27 well i hope they can get the package working on time Sep 18 20:48:29 xqo, I think the answer about whether you will like it really depends on your usage. If you want something you can use everyday as a phone, but you also want to hack on it, there really isn't anything else in its class Sep 18 20:49:54 thanks, im getting pretty excited about it. Sep 18 20:50:04 buy and try Sep 18 20:51:02 xqo, a warning about 'using the debian repositories': you can't use them directly Sep 18 20:51:30 some people have setup a chroot and installed debian that way, but it's not 100% foolproof and the general consensus is that it slows things down noticeably Sep 18 20:51:47 still, it lets you run openoffice and gimp Sep 18 20:52:12 right. Sep 18 20:52:27 also, the N900 will not prevent you from doing something dumb and making your phone unbootable Sep 18 20:52:51 hope they don't overprotect the n9 Sep 18 20:53:08 ty frals - 3 more things added to healthcheck, on a roll tonight :) Sep 18 20:53:09 ... and I see that as a good thing: preventing you from doing a lot of dumb things may prevent you from doing one very clever thing Sep 18 20:53:13 johnx: third law of robotics Sep 18 20:53:24 kerio, heh :D Sep 18 20:54:48 lcuk, ooooo the leds on the n900 have a selfcheck function :) Sep 18 20:55:11 or is that known, and i'm just finding out?! Sep 18 20:55:20 Full disclosure: I also find alias rm="rm -i" to be annoying, as well as the 'trash can' concept on desktops, and I think we should take the obvious warning labels off everything Sep 18 20:55:25 back in a min Sep 18 20:56:23 w00t, w00t_: Ping? Sep 18 20:57:04 hello Sep 18 20:57:15 oh yeah that rm -i alias is not good (also when ppl get used to it and then end up using a box that doesnt have it...) Sep 18 20:58:08 rm -rf / Sep 18 20:58:16 ^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C Sep 18 21:00:17 MNZ, Yeah, I feel a bit like that... Sep 18 21:00:53 Jaffa, Ping? Sep 18 21:01:02 dneary, I've done 'rm -rf /usr' instead of 'rm -rf usr' before Sep 18 21:01:10 ^C is never fast enough Sep 18 21:01:22 MNZ, That's no big deal, as long as you're not root at the time Sep 18 21:01:24 of course a bunch of shell scripting later I had everything back to normal Sep 18 21:01:34 was root Sep 18 21:02:02 oh by the way, can you connect to the N900 with USB and use a shell? Sep 18 21:02:12 yes Sep 18 21:02:21 xqo, use a shell to do what? Sep 18 21:02:28 anything Sep 18 21:02:39 Like in demolition man? Sep 18 21:02:54 But you'd need 3 Sep 18 21:02:57 I can plug my Neo Freerunner into my desktop computer and control it with a proper keyboard. can i do that with the n900? Sep 18 21:03:07 nox-, what do you need for that? Sep 18 21:03:10 yes if you install sshd Sep 18 21:03:39 nice.. Sep 18 21:03:40 xqo, Ah, you mean can you get a shell on the tablet, from your desktop? Sep 18 21:04:07 might want to use ssh keys tho... Sep 18 21:04:13 so my n800 has entered an endless reboot loop and reflashing with the latest diablo image didn't help... should i try --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset ? Sep 18 21:04:13 nox-, i mean can you access the mounted part Sep 18 21:04:22 i'm looking at this very old page here: http://blog.worldofcoding.com/2007/02/playing-with-my-n800.html Sep 18 21:04:55 yes, dneary Sep 18 21:04:57 volts, couldn't hurt Sep 18 21:05:11 are you sure the reflash worked though? also, when did it start rebooting? Sep 18 21:05:25 xqo, Then yes Sep 18 21:05:30 volts, if you think thats old: Sep 18 21:05:33 xqo, it's more convenient to just ssh in over wifi though Sep 18 21:05:35 pexi, via scp? that goes via usb (or wifi) networking not via usb mass storage (which umounts first) Sep 18 21:05:40 johnx, why? Sep 18 21:05:51 i found a source code offer for a function I like, given in reference to an article written in 1986! Sep 18 21:05:52 johnx: it started the reboot loop a few weeks ago, i'm not sure why Sep 18 21:06:06 i can still charge the n800 at least Sep 18 21:06:16 i am pondering contacting the university and seeing whether that offer stands Sep 18 21:06:28 xqo, wifi means no wires :P Sep 18 21:06:49 so should i do "sudo flasher-3.5 -F --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset -f -R"? Sep 18 21:06:53 nox-, yeah, did google n900 usb networking Sep 18 21:06:55 johnx, does code retain use after 26 years? Sep 18 21:07:02 or are "-f -R" not needed? Sep 18 21:07:09 lcuk, you're using UNIX, aren't you? Sep 18 21:07:14 i dont have wifi here, i could get it, but i dont mind wires. do you get the cable you need with the phone? Sep 18 21:07:19 volts, no need to include the image Sep 18 21:07:22 it's just setting a flag Sep 18 21:07:28 johnx, no, its for a graphical bitmap rotation function Sep 18 21:07:38 xqo, yeah, is the same one used for syncing ;) Sep 18 21:07:45 its advertisting uber optimising Sep 18 21:07:48 as they had to do Sep 18 21:08:03 lcuk, why not? are bits different nowadays? are angles of rotation different? Sep 18 21:08:05 and would be perfect for the task I need Sep 18 21:08:13 johnx, my point Sep 18 21:08:25 so I think I will contact the uni and have a see Sep 18 21:08:39 johnx: ah thanks, then i should just do "sudo flasher-3.5 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset"? Sep 18 21:08:47 I mean, algorithmically we've come a long way since then, so changes are good it's not the most optimal Sep 18 21:08:58 xqo, thats also what i thought doing at first, but then i just got an usb wifi dongle that does ap mode and plugged that into a freebsd box :) Sep 18 21:09:06 volts, yeah. you might need to turn on rd mode though Sep 18 21:09:19 johnx, i believe the same or similar implementation exists in the middle of the doom engine Sep 18 21:09:26 I don't remember if that happens implicitly or if it's separate Sep 18 21:09:36 i just like the purity of thinking this is a simple single function :) Sep 18 21:09:42 johnx: ah, how would i do that? Sep 18 21:09:43 lcuk, well, that's 15+ years old too Sep 18 21:09:50 sure Sep 18 21:09:54 volts, flasher --help Sep 18 21:09:58 can't think of it right now Sep 18 21:10:30 lcuk: (you also might know who else) sorry? Sep 18 21:10:31 johnx, its the same logic as I was thinking to code it myself, its just the number of variables and complexity of the operation keeps blocking Sep 18 21:10:32 do you use Maemo or Meego on the N900? because its compatible with Meego right? Sep 18 21:10:53 johnx: ah i see, i think it's probably --enable-rd-mode Sep 18 21:11:01 brb... Sep 18 21:11:04 i started and failed the other night and braindumped the equation in pseudocode Sep 18 21:11:18 then found the article which described it in same manner Sep 18 21:11:51 does anybody know why sjgadsby pinged me on twitter about some audiopulse LGPL violation? Sep 18 21:13:22 xqo, there will be a meego port to N900. it's underway Sep 18 21:13:23 xqo: MeeGo doesn't *really* exist yet Sep 18 21:13:34 but maemo software won't magically work in meego Sep 18 21:13:40 xqo: officially, it's not supported. but Nokia does pay people to work on it. Sep 18 21:14:48 then.. the n900 wont reeally be superupdated in the near future even though the n9 is coming? Sep 18 21:15:05 xqo: there will be meego, if that's what you're asking Sep 18 21:15:15 xqo, not officially, no Sep 18 21:15:58 I'm pretty sure the N900 will be one of the first (if not THE first) device to run meego Sep 18 21:16:07 also, given historical evidence, it's likely that a lot of developers will jump to the N9 and start making meego software as soon as it's available Sep 18 21:16:25 MNZ: i thought it ran meego already Sep 18 21:16:25 MNZ, well, technically it *is* the first I think Sep 18 21:16:51 but it will never run an official commercially supported version of meego, IIUC Sep 18 21:17:23 well I don't really care. What I really care about right now is hwo to snoop on dbus messages Sep 18 21:17:32 dbus-monitor? Sep 18 21:17:40 MNZ: check mdbus Sep 18 21:17:51 or use dbus-monitor Sep 18 21:17:52 what is G2? Sep 18 21:18:00 someone said the G2 is N900 and Desire combined Sep 18 21:18:14 it's an HTC Desire Z, runs android Sep 18 21:18:29 no relation to the N900 in terms of hardware or software Sep 18 21:18:51 closes hardware to the N900 is the Verizon Droid and the iPhone 3GS Sep 18 21:19:03 the *verizon* droid? Sep 18 21:19:17 motorola Milestone, I think? Sep 18 21:19:34 kerio, it's a carrier re-branded phone, Sep 18 21:19:37 http://www.zurb.com/article/438/-podcast-of-peter-skillmans-talk-on-innov by the way, if you're interested. Sep 18 21:19:53 the motorola droid, isn't it Sep 18 21:20:01 droid is being used by verizon Sep 18 21:20:12 the droid is a closed piece of crap Sep 18 21:20:18 they all are Sep 18 21:20:21 all motorola phones are Sep 18 21:20:33 kerio, but verizon calls it the droid, motorola calls it the milestone, IIRC Sep 18 21:20:45 yeah but the droid actually prevents you from running custom kernels Sep 18 21:21:02 well Sep 18 21:21:07 the -droid- doesn't Sep 18 21:21:08 so do most carrier branded Android handsets, IIRC Sep 18 21:21:08 the milestone does Sep 18 21:21:10 at a hardware level Sep 18 21:21:22 It's very easy to copy a mobile phone . it takes about 8 hours to take apart a phone and laser scan the whole thing. It will take another 2 to 3 weeks and mimic and build any phone out there. The bar for delivering reasonable hardware has really come down. Sep 18 21:21:26 wut Sep 18 21:22:09 pexi, yeah, a little questionable Sep 18 21:23:22 and what about the patents and torpedos Sep 18 21:23:31 i donno Sep 18 21:24:13 kerio: it's not on hardware level as far as i know Sep 18 21:24:23 kerio: it's on cpu rom firmware level Sep 18 21:24:50 jacekowski: it doesn't make it any less bad Sep 18 21:24:52 the kernel lock is enforced by ARM's TrustZone Sep 18 21:24:59 which checks the bootloader on startup Sep 18 21:25:18 oh wow, it works now Sep 18 21:25:33 wmarone: nope Sep 18 21:25:39 wmarone: trustzone has nothing to do with it Sep 18 21:25:44 wmarone: it's m-shield Sep 18 21:26:01 m-shield? Sep 18 21:26:04 that'll be the case for harmattan and meego too, afawk Sep 18 21:26:04 yep Sep 18 21:26:11 oddly it booted after disabling RD mode Sep 18 21:26:19 http://blog.worldofcoding.com/2007/02/playing-with-my-n800.html still works :) Sep 18 21:26:44 wmarone: it's the thing that verifies bootloader Sep 18 21:26:53 but it only got stuck on a white screen while in RD mode Sep 18 21:26:55 wmarone: and anything else you want it to verify Sep 18 21:27:09 wmarone: and it's using trustzone to make it "safe" Sep 18 21:27:22 wmarone: so you can't tamper easily with m-shield Sep 18 21:27:39 wmarone: because all it is is just bootloader hardcoded into rom that's doing everything Sep 18 21:33:21 jacekowski: and if anybody is going to make me flash a m-shield enabled NOLO to my phone, that requires a signed kernel and possibly the signing key isn't public (as otherwise it's worthless anyway), believe me I'll find him wherever he hides in this universe, and feed him this crap Sep 18 21:33:47 DocScrutinizer: you already have a m-shield enabled NOLO Sep 18 21:34:19 but not one that requires a signature on kernel Sep 18 21:35:23 well, nolo is m-shield enabled Sep 18 21:35:38 but it's not configured to enforce anything except signed bootloader Sep 18 21:35:58 which is quite pointless Sep 18 21:36:17 because you can just chainload another bootloader using nolo Sep 18 21:36:23 it can even be nolo again Sep 18 21:36:29 I thought NOLO *is* the botloader Sep 18 21:36:40 bootloader even Sep 18 21:37:01 yeah, but nolo can only load images in specific format Sep 18 21:37:07 and has some limitations Sep 18 21:37:46 yeah we know it will load any correctly formated binary, no matter if a kernel or uBoot or whatever Sep 18 21:40:19 anyone know why /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input reads -40 as a temperature at times? Sep 18 21:40:31 jacekowski: how's key management handled? Will TI sign Nokia's NOLO? or do they ship 3430 with Nokia's pubkey in ROM? or are they deploying one standard secret key to all OEMs? Sep 18 21:40:47 he Mo Sep 18 21:40:50 from limited info i was able to find Sep 18 21:40:50 hey* Sep 18 21:40:56 you need some special toolkit Sep 18 21:41:06 to flash key into cpu Sep 18 21:41:35 oh, so Nokia themselves flash their oubkey to 3430 ROM Sep 18 21:41:47 pubkey* Sep 18 21:42:06 yep Sep 18 21:42:28 and that's probably why bootloader is using all that trustzone stuff Sep 18 21:42:41 so you can't do anything with key from outside bootloader Sep 18 21:42:44 so you could disable (or not enable) m-shield on a fresh CPU? Sep 18 21:43:04 i don't have official docs Sep 18 21:43:12 i just have limited info i found on many websites Sep 18 21:43:29 but i belive so Sep 18 21:43:44 that's why i was thinking about wiping it using x-rays Sep 18 21:43:52 lemme rephrase: when I replace OMAP3430 SOC with a spare from digikey, will it still load NOLO? Sep 18 21:44:10 anyone know why /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input reads -40 as a temperature at times? <-- isn't this borked by design? Sep 18 21:44:14 afaik SpeedEvil knows about it Sep 18 21:44:31 DocScrutinizer: no Sep 18 21:44:46 DocScrutinizer: nolo uses HS stuff from cpu Sep 18 21:44:47 DocScrutinizer: no Sep 18 21:45:01 DocScrutinizer: for example, see the qemu problem Sep 18 21:45:04 DocScrutinizer: and you can't get HS version unless you are nokia or any other big vendor Sep 18 21:45:07 DocScrutinizer: qemu can't run N900 NOLO Sep 18 21:45:29 :-/ Sep 18 21:45:42 nolo that qemu is running isn't that different from n900 nolo Sep 18 21:45:43 what's HS? Sep 18 21:45:47 highsecurity Sep 18 21:45:59 FFS Sep 18 21:46:31 hitlersecurity Sep 18 21:46:32 jacekowski, LED 4 Fail, ever get to the bottom of the LED selftest? Sep 18 21:46:34 lol Mo Sep 18 21:47:17 noobmonk3y: what's the problem with LED selftest? I can tell you some bits about LP5523 Sep 18 21:47:53 cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/selftest - > just getting a LED 4 FAIL, saw a log saying Jace got it, but cant find much more out about it Sep 18 21:48:05 yeah, mine is failing as well Sep 18 21:48:11 ouch Sep 18 21:48:13 i'm not bothered Sep 18 21:48:15 jace -> mine was fine 10 mins ago, not now Sep 18 21:48:27 so thinking it cant test 4 unless it's in a certain position, etc Sep 18 21:48:33 ie, something needs to be happening Sep 18 21:48:38 muhahaha Sep 18 21:48:39 Nokia-N900:~# cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/selftest Sep 18 21:48:39 OK Sep 18 21:48:39 Nokia-N900:~# Sep 18 21:48:42 ;) Sep 18 21:48:54 but would be useful to know what 4 is, so i can try to explain led 4 fail Sep 18 21:49:03 ffs! LED 1 FAIL now!!! Sep 18 21:49:08 I want to get my N900 to share GPS via Bluetooth Sep 18 21:49:11 i wonder if it is a speed thing? tests too quick :P lol Sep 18 21:49:12 anyone to help? :P Sep 18 21:49:17 * MohammadAG fast forwards 10 minutes Sep 18 21:49:19 YOU FAIL Sep 18 21:49:21 :P Sep 18 21:49:32 would be lulz if it said that Sep 18 21:49:37 sorry luke-jr no idea Sep 18 21:49:53 * noobmonk3y makes a special MohammadAG version of healthcheck.... just fails everything Sep 18 21:49:55 I was an app to send messages via BT Sep 18 21:50:03 I think the problem is getting this stupid Mac to recognize N900 as a GPS Sep 18 21:50:03 you were? lol Sep 18 21:50:18 want* LOL Sep 18 21:51:04 noobmonk3y: lp5523 kernel driver is doing the selftests, deciding if a particular LED is ok by A/D'ing the voltage over LED. It mustn't be too high or too low Sep 18 21:51:10 the only google on "cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/selftest" brings up yours and Jace's convo on irc logs, not the greatest documented thing on earth :P Sep 18 21:51:22 hmmmmmm ... that makes sense Sep 18 21:51:27 thanks Doc! Sep 18 21:51:39 so, if the device is oc's on charge etc... that could feck it Sep 18 21:51:55 it shouln't Sep 18 21:51:57 oc'd* Sep 18 21:52:02 shouldn't* Sep 18 21:52:02 shouldn't but could? Sep 18 21:52:03 noobmonk3y: yep Sep 18 21:52:17 makes sense! Sep 18 21:52:20 ish Sep 18 21:52:35 as much sense as the french language (*waits for abuse) Sep 18 21:52:53 French is le shit! Sep 18 21:52:56 ;) Sep 18 21:53:11 merde alors Sep 18 21:53:17 viva le merde Sep 18 21:53:23 (or something) Sep 18 21:53:34 vive la merde Sep 18 21:53:38 ah Sep 18 21:53:39 i'm gonna need a bible of information to go alongside the new healthcheck Sep 18 21:53:48 merde is female? Sep 18 21:53:59 iirc Sep 18 21:54:02 merde is shit in french Sep 18 21:54:08 female shit? Sep 18 21:54:17 my french lessons in school are some 35 years ago Sep 18 21:54:35 lol Sep 18 21:54:35 i'm going to sleep Sep 18 21:54:44 i've been to sheffield an back today Sep 18 21:54:50 and had enough Sep 18 21:55:42 I've been too shuffled Sep 18 21:56:14 I'm not that familiar with dbus, so someone help me out here: how would I find out which program is sending a certain signal/message/whatever-it-is-called Sep 18 21:56:51 if it's not mentioned in the trace, then I'm rather lost Sep 18 21:57:44 I guess *somehow* you can get the progID from the dbus sender numeric 'anonymous' ID Sep 18 21:58:05 signal sender=:1.92 -> dest=(null destination) serial=63 path=/org/kernel/class/input/input15; interface=org.kernel.kevent; member=remove Sep 18 21:58:31 noobmonk3y: The temperature measury thing is deprecated hardware. Sep 18 21:58:37 noobmonk3y: It may or may not work. Sep 18 21:58:43 Ty SpeedEvil :) :) Sep 18 21:58:46 what the hell are these things? something is broadcasting the kernel's /sys/class/input stuff over dbus.... how do I find what? Sep 18 21:58:55 Assuming there is no way to get it in any other form/piece of hardware? Sep 18 21:59:15 What do you want? Sep 18 21:59:31 I'm just digging into all the hardware for Healthcheck, and pulling things i find out :) Sep 18 22:00:01 takes a loooong time cat'ing everything on the n900 :P Sep 18 22:00:06 ah Sep 18 22:00:15 There's a kernel module afaik Sep 18 22:00:26 that shows the correct temp Sep 18 22:00:37 (from the sensor next to the battery) Sep 18 22:00:42 hehe, tis ok, thought that was the case, as OMAP deprecated it after that model :P - according to their website, must have just been flakey in that 1 Sep 18 22:00:45 or from the battery itself, not sure Sep 18 22:00:58 MohammadAG, the battery one is flakey too Sep 18 22:01:00 but it's in kernel-power, if you can get the source it can be compiled for omap1 Sep 18 22:01:26 /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input <-- this is the battery one :P Sep 18 22:01:53 Mo, that is what i am reading Sep 18 22:02:55 I know, but there's a kernel module which reports the correct temp Sep 18 22:03:21 i think it just reads it better lol, anyway , too complicated for healthcheck Sep 18 22:03:25 hello, came to ask if anyone else is having an issue with n900 not alerting on incoming SMS all the time? no vibration or sound or on-screen message, but if you open the conversation it's there Sep 18 22:03:52 i've noticed it only with one contact, too :/ Sep 18 22:03:56 osaka, specific texts? i ask, as it is possible to send a non-alert text Sep 18 22:04:44 (Back in the day i had a tool to do that was quite funny) - but these days, companies can do it, even the vodafone text centre, (Text via outlook) allows you to send non-alert texts) Sep 18 22:04:44 sometimes it does alert from the contact's sms's but not always, and it's a girl i doubt who knows how to send a non-alert text Sep 18 22:05:02 osaka, any chance she is sending it from a pc or website? Sep 18 22:05:10 nah, def her phone Sep 18 22:05:10 just thinking a checkbox could be out of place? Sep 18 22:05:13 hmmmmm Sep 18 22:05:17 in that case, no idea :| Sep 18 22:05:19 sorry :( Sep 18 22:05:23 blergh Sep 18 22:05:32 Does sound like that is happenning though Sep 18 22:05:47 i even tried closing the conversation, locking the keys and screen Sep 18 22:05:49 and put the phone on my lap Sep 18 22:06:03 she answered 2 minutes later and i didnt notice til 1 hour after Sep 18 22:06:05 sounds very odd... just tell her she's not special no more, and move on :P Sep 18 22:06:07 feels bad, man Sep 18 22:06:23 Night alls - off to bed :) Sep 18 22:06:29 thanks anyway, night Sep 18 22:06:38 not a prob Sep 18 22:09:25 The sensor right next to the battery is accessed through twl4030 madc. I don't know any non-nokia software that does this. Sep 18 22:09:43 It probably accesses the battery fuel gauge chip's internal temperature sensor instead Sep 18 22:10:25 I thought omap34xx_temp/temp1_input was the SOC temperature... Sep 18 22:10:58 the /sys/class/power/*/temp* is the battery monitor chip temp Sep 18 22:10:59 There's no temperature sensor inside the battery... Well, there's one in the mugen battery, but it's not supposed ot be there, so it creates all sorts of interesting issues for normal maemo system :) Sep 18 22:11:04 ShadowJK: yep, me too Sep 18 22:12:29 battery temp is supposed to be twl4030 ADCIN0 Sep 18 22:13:07 and the mugen thermistor would be accessed through a different line on twl4030 madc from the thermistor that's in the battery bay Sep 18 22:14:14 BSI (mugen thermistor) is ADCIN4 Sep 18 22:15:06 anyone else have any clue about the missing sms notifications? Sep 18 22:15:41 iirc all those ADCINn are multiplexed to a single 12bit A/D converter Sep 18 22:15:53 osaka, also no blue light? Sep 18 22:15:58 there are like 8 in total Sep 18 22:16:09 no, nothing Sep 18 22:16:22 only hint about a new text is that it's there in the conversation Sep 18 22:17:06 o_O Sep 18 22:17:31 no call notify or whatever installed either Sep 18 22:17:52 only app that has to do with conversations is the desktop inbox widget but that cant be it, no? Sep 18 22:17:56 something to do with her phone that sends something `strange'? Sep 18 22:18:26 sometimes it alerts about her sms's though Sep 18 22:18:29 i think Sep 18 22:20:31 i never used that widget Sep 18 22:25:18 osaka: if you have the conversation with that contact open, you won't be alerted, AFAIK Sep 18 22:25:24 i know Sep 18 22:25:29 if it's topmost Sep 18 22:25:35 and i've tried closing _everything_ Sep 18 22:25:38 and then locking the phone Sep 18 22:25:41 and still it wont alert Sep 18 22:25:47 oh, no idea then Sep 18 22:27:17 almost sounds as if her phone is doing something `strange'... Sep 18 22:27:58 how can it be her phone Sep 18 22:28:51 well i dont know the sms protocol but maybe there are things in there that could cause this Sep 18 22:29:09 like some `dont alert' bit or whatever Sep 18 22:35:51 meh, can't find anything on the web that'd fix it Sep 18 22:35:56 thanks anyway, night Sep 18 22:56:12 o/ night folks Sep 18 23:06:10 so can i install maemo on my iphone ? Sep 18 23:06:55 oops Sep 18 23:06:57 wrong peeps Sep 18 23:29:19 nite all, sweet dreams Sep 18 23:41:35 Morning Sep 19 00:16:54 https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-September/028014.html hmm? Sep 19 00:22:20 MohammadAG: Did you see poke about bug 2563, btw? Sep 19 00:22:21 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2563 Please provide an attribution line for replying Sep 19 00:23:43 Jaffa, yes, it's already in the SSU repo, added it about a week ago :P Sep 19 00:23:49 MohammadAG: Ah, cool. Sep 19 00:23:54 but I lost the metapackage, and reprepro isn't working on the server Sep 19 00:24:02 fixed ssh on my router today Sep 19 00:24:15 had a redirect which points any port 22 crap to my N900 Sep 19 00:24:21 Heh Sep 19 00:24:36 so if i ssh to the maemo autobuilder I end up on my N900 Sep 19 00:24:53 Oops Sep 19 00:25:03 * Jaffa has 3.90.7-1 of modest, FWIW Sep 19 00:29:39 Jaffa, that should be the newest one.... Sep 19 00:29:58 Jaffa, send me an email with a word or two, I'll reply Sep 19 00:30:03 MohammadAG: Hmm, attribution line doesn't seem to work. Still get '------- Original message ------' Sep 19 00:30:06 MohammadAG: addr? Sep 19 00:30:14 got it? Sep 19 00:30:21 I /notice'd it Sep 19 00:30:29 clever Sep 19 00:30:37 :P Sep 19 00:31:10 Sent Sep 19 00:32:43 Was there ever an announcement about the repo, btw? Sep 19 00:33:22 no, as I said, GPG is failing on me Sep 19 00:33:58 Need a hand (not now, shouldb e in bed) Sep 19 00:34:01 ? Sep 19 00:34:43 sure, can we check it out tomorrow? Sep 19 00:34:50 I'll ask lma if we have more problems Sep 19 00:34:58 Sent a reply Sep 19 00:36:05 Jaffa, got the reply? Sep 19 00:37:09 Jaffa, if you don't have the same reply try to Sep 19 00:37:12 rm /var/cache/apt/archives/modest_3.90.7-1_armel.deb Sep 19 00:37:17 apt-get --reinstall install modest Sep 19 00:37:33 Anyone here know anyone working on pidgin? Sep 19 00:39:04 Do bird trainers qualify? Sep 19 00:40:14 MohammadAG: Ooh, after apt-get clean, the version in /var/cache/apt/archives is different size. Sep 19 00:40:17 any way to run maemo in qemu? (not meego), or any way of emulate the whole maemo? Sep 19 00:40:22 MohammadAG: Is bug 3700 patch included, btw? Sep 19 00:40:23 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3700 Put signatures not on top in replies (thereby not forcing top-post) Sep 19 00:40:25 ALoGeNo: no Sep 19 00:40:26 in the wiki i dont see clean Sep 19 00:40:34 Only if they can train this bird to leave fewer tirds and use smaller prints Sep 19 00:40:43 hey luke-jr ! kk ty Sep 19 00:40:49 MohammadAG: YAY! It's wonderful and working Sep 19 00:41:01 MohammadAG: I'd not've thought about the archives. Wonderful. Sep 19 00:41:06 Alogeno: maemo can run in system-qemu Sep 19 00:41:09 MohammadAG: And bug 3700 is included :-) Sep 19 00:41:47 Jaffa: including bugs is awful. Include fixes! Not bugs! Sep 19 00:42:01 timeless_pidgin: s/bug/patch on bug/ Sep 19 00:42:03 LOL Sep 19 00:42:24 Jaffa, I should've bumped version numbers when I updated the packages :) Sep 19 00:42:55 MohammadAG: Yes; yes you should ;-p Sep 19 00:43:05 * Jaffa reinstalls everything in the repo to make sure it's current Sep 19 00:44:37 So, no pidgin trainers? :-( Sep 19 00:44:51 timeless_pidgin, how? you have some link or so please? Sep 19 00:45:13 Nope :-) Sep 19 00:45:14 you mean maemo without X no? Sep 19 00:45:32 something like meego? Sep 19 00:46:10 Roughly, qemu w/o system-qemu doesn't handle threads well. So graphical applications that need threads and useful debuging need system-qemu Sep 19 00:46:33 with meego qemu image you cant don nothing.. keyb dont work mouse dont work.. not x.. Sep 19 00:46:40 maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/read/d6eca3a26a6911df9735417902e5b02db02d/ Sep 19 00:47:08 oky doky timeless_pidgin :) you are so kind Sep 19 00:48:22 www.lmgtfy.com/?q=system+qemu+maemo Sep 19 00:48:53 No bird trainers that can do that :p. Have you tried the official channel for pidgin, if they have one timeless_pidgin? Sep 19 00:49:00 You've spent your one free question Sep 19 00:49:15 Jaffa, the new hildon-desktop needs to have /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini edited if you want the scrolling fix, I'll make it default to 0.99 Sep 19 00:49:20 Nope, i suppose i could... Sep 19 00:49:25 If they know someone working on pidgin* Sep 19 00:50:14 * timeless_pidgin hops along Sep 19 00:51:15 wow timeless_pidgin , sometimes the correct key words in google does miracles.. tnx Sep 19 00:53:08 Alogeno : i tried giving them to you a couple of times... Sep 19 00:58:09 thank you very much timeless_pidgin :) Sep 19 00:58:41 bah Sep 19 00:58:42 Firefox had a problem and crashed. We'll try to restore your tabs and windows when it restarts. Sep 19 01:11:43 hey, I cant see userlist on xchat what might be the problem? Sep 19 01:12:36 Re firefox, load about:crashes Sep 19 01:50:08 Note to self: shoot opera for being stupid Sep 19 01:58:47 I wish pidgin was a little less retarded. Sep 19 02:01:13 but then it wouldn't be pidgin Sep 19 02:02:32 My major objection is with either pidgin, or some unnamed contributor to the linux 2.4 kernel. Sep 19 02:02:57 In 2.4 times, you could do sockdown() on a network descriptor in /proc/nnn/fd/ Sep 19 02:03:04 Even if it was not your own. Sep 19 02:03:25 This let you tear down connections without waiting for the stack to timeout, f you knew rthe connection had gone away. Sep 19 02:03:55 But with pidgin - you have to disable and then reenable the account to do that. Sep 19 02:04:07 In practice, I kill and restart it. Sep 19 02:04:15 I should setup a bouncer. Sep 19 02:22:12 Heh Sep 19 02:22:31 I finally was told how to hide the useless formating bar in pidgin Sep 19 02:23:16 timeless: I find it useful to have the tab bar down the right-hand-side. Oh - and you can make channel name aliases for the tab bar. Sep 19 02:23:28 I have tabs OSM HOS MD ... Sep 19 02:24:16 right click on a chat in the buddy list, and set an alias Sep 19 02:25:19 How do i get tabbar on right? Sep 19 02:28:04 buddy window - tools ->preferences->interface -> tabs Sep 19 02:31:23 How do i get the buddy window? Sep 19 02:33:00 what version is thsi? Sep 19 02:33:11 Oops browser crashed Sep 19 02:33:19 Dunno, version me? Sep 19 02:33:33 I had a buddy window. I lost it. Sep 19 02:33:43 I can't find it anymore Sep 19 02:34:26 ii pidgin 2.7.3-0nix2 Sep 19 02:35:05 ah - I'm on 2.5.9 Sep 19 02:37:31 Err Sep 19 02:37:44 How do i *not* see the tabbar when i don't need it? Sep 19 02:38:11 And how do i open the buddy window w/o quiting? Sep 19 02:38:40 Unsure. Sep 19 02:38:48 I always have it visible Sep 19 02:39:00 Is this on maemo? Sep 19 02:39:06 Yup Sep 19 02:39:16 ah - right - it'll have been wierdised. Sep 19 02:39:17 Does anything else exist? Sep 19 02:39:27 I can't run maeo on my laptop. Sep 19 02:39:45 Why not? Sep 19 02:39:56 native Sep 19 02:39:57 mer exists in iso form Sep 19 02:39:58 SpeedEvil, all hildon is open Sep 19 02:40:12 That is not maemo. Sep 19 02:40:17 there might be a few apps missing Sep 19 02:40:27 but they can be filled up from extras Sep 19 02:40:58 I'm sorry - if vital apps such as 'Blocks' cannot be there, I'm not using it. Sep 19 02:41:00 :) Sep 19 02:42:27 Define "cannot" Sep 19 02:42:37 I had blocks and friends on my x86 mer Sep 19 02:42:47 ... I used a nokia internal repo... Sep 19 02:42:58 ;-) Sep 19 02:44:13 torrent? Sep 19 02:44:14 :) Sep 19 02:44:16 Fwiw, iiuc, blocks was a third party app that nokia kinda imported Sep 19 02:44:22 yeah. Sep 19 02:44:25 No :-b Sep 19 02:44:27 Along with the bugs. Sep 19 02:44:43 Ayup Sep 19 02:44:48 That part sucked Sep 19 02:44:58 game over. You loose (slut) Sep 19 02:45:13 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9826 I was thinking of. Sep 19 02:45:14 Bug 9826: Blocks collision detection bug Sep 19 02:47:31 Nice Sep 19 02:49:21 timeless_pidgin: not that 3rd - I thought it was nokia bangalore? Sep 19 02:53:47 Hrm, i thought it was brazil Sep 19 02:53:57 Indt Sep 19 02:54:09 I could be wrong Sep 19 02:54:47 I didn't think nokia bangalore was involved in maemo until more recently... Sep 19 02:55:18 If at all... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 19 02:59:56 2010