**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 20 02:59:57 2010 Sep 20 03:00:20 red* Sep 20 03:00:22 if oranges had been that red, we would be eating reds Sep 20 03:00:29 lol Sep 20 03:00:41 meh Sep 20 03:01:01 heh Sep 20 03:02:46 and using the white LEDs you can more easilly use surfaces of different colors, things that are aren't red and black wouldd be harder to detect the patterns with the red LED Sep 20 03:03:26 does liqflow use hardware acceleration? Sep 20 03:04:28 TiagoTiago_, yes Sep 20 03:04:33 it makes full use of the cpu Sep 20 03:04:49 what about the GPU? Sep 20 03:05:09 xvideo yuv overlay bypasses the powervr and compositing Sep 20 03:05:15 i remember reading abnout PlasmaPong that it uses shaders for running the liquid simulation Sep 20 03:05:37 then no, this is direct software driven stuff Sep 20 03:05:53 gas balls is a rather nice opengl doofer Sep 20 03:06:35 thats on ovi Sep 20 03:07:19 TiagoTiago_: what's wrong with white+black surfaces when lit with red, err orange light? Sep 20 03:07:46 would it use too much processing power to make the particles in liqflow repell each other abit to avoid them pilling up in the same place? Sep 20 03:08:06 if for example the surface i blue and black with red light it would look all dark Sep 20 03:08:10 is* Sep 20 03:08:27 works perfecrly for me, with stock video cam, on a paper with normal printout it's abot 1.w lines size that's detected Sep 20 03:08:28 TiagoTiago_, yes, there are alternatives :) Sep 20 03:09:05 the original version made particles expire after a time and regen anywhere, and also regen at screen boundaries Sep 20 03:09:21 ,why you changed? Sep 20 03:09:34 because its nice to have it working like it does Sep 20 03:09:45 but the variations will return Sep 20 03:09:56 perhaps the lines could introduce random tyurbulence on the particles that get close enough? Sep 20 03:10:03 theres been many things Sep 20 03:10:17 theres already random turbulance on the entire thing :) Sep 20 03:10:30 or did you think the accelerometer was totally smooth ;) Sep 20 03:10:46 you can get those particles out of a well Sep 20 03:10:50 if you swing device Sep 20 03:10:59 or tip it around etc Sep 20 03:11:00 :) Sep 20 03:11:08 then why do the particles often eventually get all in a single thin line following one of the traces? Sep 20 03:11:53 why do clouds generally sit at one level in the sky Sep 20 03:12:14 hm, nonlinear pressure gradients? Sep 20 03:12:24 similar effect happening here :P Sep 20 03:12:25 dunno Sep 20 03:12:29 hm Sep 20 03:13:05 http://liqbase.net/liqflow_test.AVI Sep 20 03:13:17 thats the very original version about 10 minutes after i coded it Sep 20 03:14:20 it didnt even have accelerometer support then :) Sep 20 03:15:11 'm seeeing the stuff from liqflow in the full black pixels of my wallpaper, is that on purpose? Sep 20 03:15:39 no Sep 20 03:15:48 chances are you have the version from extras itself Sep 20 03:15:57 which still needs updating Sep 20 03:16:08 is there one on -dev? Sep 20 03:16:20 yeah Sep 20 03:16:42 but while testing this video thing, I noticed a nice WTF: since I installed fcam(?) I have to start maemo camera explicitly as it doesn't startup on lens slider... well ok. BUT closing lens slider making cam window vanish and still camera-ui eating some 40perc cpu, while device GUI is basically frozen, that's definitley not appreciated :-( Sep 20 03:16:43 i got -dev enabled, why did i get the one from -test instead? Sep 20 03:17:08 hm Sep 20 03:17:15 haven't noticed that yet Sep 20 03:19:04 what would happen if you killed any particles that got too closed to other particles, recreating them somewhere randomlly?? Sep 20 03:19:32 TiagoTiago_, it would slow everything down Sep 20 03:19:39 :( Sep 20 03:20:25 TiagoTiago_, theres ways round it of course Sep 20 03:20:52 but i like making spiral galaxies and watching them spin round Sep 20 03:21:48 heh Sep 20 03:22:00 i should put the config options together properly Sep 20 03:22:04 it should be possible to c Sep 20 03:22:12 switch out the engine for a new one Sep 20 03:22:31 ive already got some variations (theres an alpha blended variant for instance Sep 20 03:22:33 http://liqbase.net/liqflow.stars.test.20091224_018.jpg Sep 20 03:22:39 and that sort of thing ^ Sep 20 03:23:02 how do i access the config window? Sep 20 03:23:22 there isnt one for those Sep 20 03:23:35 you mented it earlier as well Sep 20 03:23:42 :) indeed i did Sep 20 03:23:55 it's the same non existent one? Sep 20 03:25:05 another benefit of the white LEDs over the red one is they are much brighter,, allowing for shorter exposure time per frame Sep 20 03:30:02 TiagoTiago_, http://liqbase.net/liq.20100920_042834.liqflow_run1.scr.png Sep 20 03:30:04 it exists Sep 20 03:30:24 how do i get there? Sep 20 03:30:41 you dont yet Sep 20 03:30:46 ah Sep 20 03:32:38 hm, interesting thing happens if you make a zigzag scribble, back and forth over itself, the particles form a straight line somewhat orthogonal to the scribble Sep 20 03:33:53 sure Sep 20 03:34:19 * lcuk can make a love heart Sep 20 03:34:35 lol Sep 20 03:35:17 http://liqbase.net/20091219_002.jpg Sep 20 03:35:22 harder than you think TiagoTiago_ ;) Sep 20 03:35:55 you blurred so i can't see the lines yu drew? Sep 20 03:36:06 but it was stable and pulsing beating Sep 20 03:36:18 TiagoTiago_, i blurred it because i am a crap cameraman Sep 20 03:36:23 lol Sep 20 03:37:47 TiagoTiago_, one of the things for livewp stuff Sep 20 03:37:50 Arr, how ye be my maties?? Sep 20 03:37:55 was to do the same as i do for other sketches Sep 20 03:38:04 and record sometimes and playback others Sep 20 03:38:11 why the particles don't look shaken when i shake it? is it because of the toroidal topology? Sep 20 03:38:17 luke-jr, that was yesterday ya skurvy sea dog Sep 20 03:38:35 lcuk: nay, nay, today it is! Sep 20 03:38:41 TiagoTiago_, they grow normally with banging Sep 20 03:38:47 the nigh draw near, but has not come yet! Sep 20 03:38:50 but i noticed recent one didnt include it Sep 20 03:39:13 no, i mean, they continue moving like it hasn't been shaken Sep 20 03:39:28 luke-jr, aye thar be grog a plenty and buxon wenches to plunder still today Sep 20 03:39:44 or is it what its to be expected from particles floating in a liquid? Sep 20 03:39:52 is it talk like a pirate day already? Sep 20 03:39:57 my wench isn't here to plunder :( Sep 20 03:40:04 TiagoTiago_: almost over, n0b Sep 20 03:40:10 :( Sep 20 03:40:23 mind you, as tracy said, i dont need a specific day to talk like a pirate Sep 20 03:40:32 lol Sep 20 03:41:05 TiagoTiago_, have a play with the code Sep 20 03:41:14 and see what you can alter to make it fit Sep 20 03:41:27 it should be possible to give accelerometer more of an effect Sep 20 03:42:39 it only uses 0.08 * acc readings at the mo Sep 20 03:42:44 i probably don't know enough to know what to do, also, would i even be able to do it int he de vice itself or does it need to be compiled on a desktop/laptop? Sep 20 03:43:01 weird random placement of spaces.....] Sep 20 03:43:02 liqflow builds from source on device in ~10seconds fully Sep 20 03:43:13 erm, damn fat fingers syndrome Sep 20 03:43:17 but only changing liqflow_run.c takes ~3 seconds per build Sep 20 03:45:39 oops Sep 20 03:45:59 changed gravity effect to 0.28 Sep 20 03:46:11 and it has more of an effect when you shake it now Sep 20 03:46:24 just the particles fall like boulders Sep 20 03:47:02 the version i got is 0.1.7 , is that the latest one? Sep 20 03:47:43 yeah Sep 20 03:48:27 lcuk: writing the Qt killer? Sep 20 03:49:09 no luke-jr Sep 20 03:49:43 * lcuk adores qt and wishes he could make use of more of it Sep 20 03:52:01 :p Sep 20 03:52:12 Nokia bought Qt... it won't last long XD Sep 20 03:52:22 Symbian is still around Sep 20 03:52:35 didn't Nokia buy Qt before Symbian? Sep 20 03:52:44 and really... nobody uses Symbian XD Sep 20 03:54:59 you don't use symbian, you suffer it Sep 20 03:55:40 sigh Sep 20 03:55:43 it works well Sep 20 03:55:51 lol Sep 20 03:56:02 lol Sep 20 04:22:40 ls Sep 20 04:22:48 oops Sep 20 04:23:21 lo Sep 20 04:23:24 lol* Sep 20 05:36:10 oh man. Sep 20 05:36:22 what? Sep 20 05:36:28 i figured out why my 770 kept crashing while trying to install tear Sep 20 05:36:46 i was on he2007 and its not even compatible Sep 20 05:36:56 oh :/ Sep 20 05:37:02 right? Sep 20 05:37:17 dunno Sep 20 05:37:27 i wish 2008he ran better on my 770 Sep 20 05:37:38 i need to do the mem card hack Sep 20 06:22:12 just a silly thing, but when using the n900 kbd what are the keystrokes to replace Alt → (used to scroll through the windows in irssi) Sep 20 06:24:20 jpinx-eeepc: s/Alt/Esc/ works for that Sep 20 06:25:14 so it does thanks sp3000 Sep 20 06:26:16 it all makes me like the n900 more as I get it more useable Sep 20 06:27:45 P Sep 20 06:28:59 N8 OK http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR0duOeaId8&feature=related Sep 20 06:38:54 The n900 certainly does take some time to optimize for usability. Sep 20 06:41:29 rmrfchik: lol, that's an awesome video Sep 20 06:41:34 i hope the N9 can match that Sep 20 06:44:14 rmrfchik: Umm, is that video supposed to be impressive? Not saying one way or the other, but it looks like an ordinary smartphone. Is there something in particular I should be focusing on? Sep 20 06:48:48 kwtm, I found it pretty funny. Sep 20 06:51:28 mece: What was funny? Sorry, I didn't turn up the sound (my toddler's sleeping). Was it that the user trying to use it like an iPhone? Sep 20 06:52:11 rmrfchik, kwtm, I didn't really understand what she was doing. Looked like she was demoing the N8 to someone. Sep 20 06:54:32 sound isn't really important Sep 20 06:54:46 just watch what the phone is doing... Sep 20 06:55:20 she wasn't able to get the images to zoom, and a couple apps crashed, and it froze and turned itself off when she tried to type in a phone number Sep 20 06:56:40 ieatlint, I guess you can't run all installed apps at once after all then Sep 20 06:57:40 you're making assumptions... you don't need to make excuses for it Sep 20 06:58:48 ieatlint, huh? Sep 20 06:59:23 you don't know that it was running an unreasonable number of applications is what i'm saying Sep 20 07:01:02 kwtm: it's just usual nokia fail. nothing new Sep 20 07:01:28 ieatlint, I guess. It didn't behave like the one I poked at, so I figured there was a lot of stuff running. Sep 20 07:08:07 ieatlint, n8 is ok. i like it, even it is S^3 Sep 20 07:08:25 rmrfchik: You know, this is my first time owning a Nokia, and I thought it would be so awesome because Nokia makes so many phones. I was so disappointed at the interface. Sep 20 07:08:43 kwtm, what phone is that? Sep 20 07:08:52 Sorry, should have specified. Got me a n900. Sep 20 07:09:06 kwtm: stick with it - was too at the beginning but now I really like it Sep 20 07:09:12 kwtm, then you're doing it wrong. Nothing comes close to the n900 Sep 20 07:09:24 When I got it, I was thinking, "What the bloody **** was nokia thinking??? My ancient Treo 650 was easier to use than this!!!" Sep 20 07:10:06 its a bit of love it or hate it relationship with n900, don't worry, come 6 months `novelty period' time and we'll see if you still own it ;) Sep 20 07:10:11 jpinx-eeepc: Oh, I agree. I can't live without my N900. It is able to do so many things that other phones can't. But it would be so much better if Nokia actually hired someone with brains to design the GUI. Sep 20 07:10:43 mece: When you say "nothing comes close", do you mean the capabilities/features or the user interface? I agree with you on the former. Sep 20 07:11:11 mece: And, of course, the possibility that anything at all is modifiable on this FOSS phone. But the stuff it does come with leaves much to be desired. Sep 20 07:11:22 n900/maemo is not about easiness. it's about geekness and nokia's research (following, as usual, fail) Sep 20 07:11:31 I should actually blog about the deficiencies in N900. Not that it would actually make any differencve at Nokia. Sep 20 07:11:44 kwtm, I like the UI too. Sep 20 07:11:52 kwtm: don't waste your time Sep 20 07:12:03 rmrfchik: Yeah. Like X-Fade said the other day, "It's not a PHONE! It's an INTERNET TABLET (with phone capabilities)". XD Sep 20 07:12:06 kwtm: maemo is not FOSS Sep 20 07:12:26 rmrfchik: Well, modifiable. At least the hildon thing is modifiable. Sep 20 07:12:28 kwtm: so, lame excuse to flaws :0 Sep 20 07:12:43 rmrfchik, what flaws? Sep 20 07:12:56 rmrfchik: Yeah, I found out today that Maemo is not FOSS. How is it licensed, exactly? There's a proprietary core but a lot of it is OSS? Sep 20 07:13:11 43% or so Sep 20 07:13:11 mece: input framework, contacts, skippng sounds, you name it Sep 20 07:13:14 mece: Each to his/her own, then. Sep 20 07:13:29 rmrfchik: input framework is open but not plugins Sep 20 07:13:30 kwtm, yep :) I can only speak for myself. Sep 20 07:13:32 kwtm: I don't know of anything other than a netbook that can do what my n900 is doing right now - 6 browser windows, sms window, phone window, irssi in screen in a chroot, 12 documents and all ssh'd over to my eeepc :) Sep 20 07:13:34 Stskeeps: Is this, like, "79.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot"? Sep 20 07:13:36 kwtm: there are proprieatry key features Sep 20 07:13:40 kwtm: no, sec Sep 20 07:13:55 Stskeeps: it doesn't help to fix input for non-latin Sep 20 07:13:56 std Monday nagging day, /me gets a cup coffee Sep 20 07:14:05 Okay, just tio clarify: I love my n900. BUt only because I'm forced to love it because nothing else comes close. Sep 20 07:14:10 kwtm: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html Sep 20 07:14:22 kwtm: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo.org/openness/pr1.1/ Sep 20 07:14:38 Stskeeps: Ah, I see. :) Sep 20 07:14:39 kwtm: agree, same as me -- there is no alternative. Sep 20 07:14:49 if you want open maemo, go for meego :P Sep 20 07:14:53 and I'm hoping to jump off nokia's train soon. Sep 20 07:15:09 mece: Maybe you've found a way around the flaws in the GUI; if so, I'd love to get your advice on these: Sep 20 07:15:27 rmrfchik, my contacts work fine and my sound doesn't skip, and I dont' really know what the input thing means. It could use some more ram though :) Sep 20 07:15:33 kwtm, what are those flaws then? Sep 20 07:15:43 For example, hildon is supposed to be "finger friendly". So, when I hold down my finger and it pops up the "context window" (the equivalent of Sep 20 07:15:45 Stskeeps: the "openness" issue is with hardware drivers or I would just install debian :) Sep 20 07:15:57 mece: oh, so, you can detach skype/jabber acoount from contact without deleting on server? Sep 20 07:16:01 switching.. :) Sep 20 07:16:04 mece: the "context menu" on right-click on the desktop), why does the menu open RIGHT UNDERNEATH my finger where I can't see it? Sep 20 07:16:06 mece: you has custum fields? Sep 20 07:16:14 jpinx-eeepc: well, BME is redistributable blob, SGX will be redistributable blob, wifi and bt firmware the same Sep 20 07:16:19 mece: or you can sync with google? Sep 20 07:16:27 jpinx-eeepc: and don't fool yourself, debian on mobile devices is crap at power saving Sep 20 07:16:32 Mece_: And then it's so easy to select the top item without even seeing what it is. Sep 20 07:16:33 been there done that Sep 20 07:16:34 mece: may be u has contact groups? ;) Sep 20 07:16:40 Stskeeps: where's this blogged? Sep 20 07:16:54 jpinx-eeepc: which part? Sep 20 07:16:58 Mece_: And who on earth designed the email program so that the top item which is automatically selected is "Delete this email"??? Sep 20 07:17:21 Stskeeps: getting a free OS onto the n900 Sep 20 07:17:25 Mece_: What they *should* do is pop up the context menu somewhere OTHER THAN where my finger is stabbing, so I can actually see it! Sep 20 07:17:36 free as in open gpl Sep 20 07:17:36 kwtm, hold on. one at a time... Sep 20 07:17:49 jpinx-eeepc: several places, but if you don't want closed blobs (the very damn few there are), you're pretty much out of luck Sep 20 07:18:05 Stskeeps: :/ Sep 20 07:18:08 Mece_: Okay, holding. Would love to make this GUI more usable... Sep 20 07:18:35 Oh, meego is FOSS but maemo isn't? Sep 20 07:18:37 mece: and about input: you can't switch layout when u have no input line. so type-to-search doesn't work Sep 20 07:19:09 mece: and in 90% typing _starts_ with latin layout although layout IS alternative Sep 20 07:19:10 kwtm: meego.com is FOSS, N900 hardware adaptation and Aava hardware adaptation has some non-oss bits, but redistributable Sep 20 07:19:18 that's so annoying Sep 20 07:19:18 for hardware support exclusively Sep 20 07:19:42 rmrfchik: Curious: what non-latin language would you prefer to use? Sep 20 07:20:13 jpinx-eeepc: basically we had a debian on n810 project and it's simply not usable beyond 4-5 hours of battery life Sep 20 07:20:18 in idle, too Sep 20 07:20:18 :P Sep 20 07:20:21 Stskeeps: What phones will end up using Meego? Maybe I can try a non-Nokia thing next time. Sep 20 07:20:27 kwtm: no idea Sep 20 07:20:38 i dabble in software, hardware is up to the big boys Sep 20 07:20:38 :P Sep 20 07:21:28 kwtm, i guess I never tried to detach a skype account. that's pretty annoying. Sep 20 07:21:51 is there a bug for this? Sep 20 07:21:56 Mece_: I think you probably meant to direct that line to someone else. rmrfchik, perhaps? Sep 20 07:22:09 Stskeeps: shame about the debian pwer problem... Sep 20 07:22:25 perhaps. I don't see the history here. Sep 20 07:22:41 morning Sep 20 07:22:44 wazd: pong Sep 20 07:22:50 It's rmrfchik. Hey, rmrfchik, you want to comment? Sep 20 07:23:35 moo all Sep 20 07:23:52 jpinx-eeepc: debian's a server and desktop os, not a mobile os Sep 20 07:23:52 :P Sep 20 07:24:07 kwtm: russian Sep 20 07:24:08 kwtm, I never even thought about the popup menu thing as an issue, so I guess it doesn't bother me. Sep 20 07:24:19 VMware Looks To Acquire Novell's SUSE Unit Sep 20 07:24:23 * RST38h laughs satanically Sep 20 07:24:26 kwtm: and there is a bug filed Sep 20 07:24:36 rmrfchik: That's crummy. Sep 20 07:25:08 rmrfchik, is there a bug for the detaching of skype details? Sep 20 07:25:26 rmrfchik, I never did it so it never bothered me. Sep 20 07:25:32 kwtm: input was broken in PR1.2. this shows that nokia do not test basic use cases :( Sep 20 07:25:34 Stskeeps: true indeed, but it's modus operandi makes it very user friendly for non-experts Sep 20 07:25:42 rmrfchik: which they will not fix Sep 20 07:25:49 Mece_: Okay, so that' point's moot. What about scrolling --if you have a long list and you want to get to the bottom quickly (say, a list of contacts and you want to phone one near the bottom of the list), how do you go quickly to the bottom? Ctrl-Down doesn't seem to work. Sep 20 07:26:06 rmrfchik: after all, they failed fixing the language switch for non-cyrillic physical keyboards Sep 20 07:26:16 Mece_: So I end up having to stroke my finger upward, like, 50 times to get to the bottom. Sep 20 07:26:40 Mece_: now I have merged contacts with wrong skype/jabber. Sep 20 07:26:59 rmrfchik: Oh, don't even get me started on merging/importing contacts... Sep 20 07:27:19 rmrfchik, well that blows. Sep 20 07:27:27 rmrfchik: The stupid thing wouldn't import more than 1000 contacts at once. Sep 20 07:28:15 rmrfchik: (and Mece_, this will be a question for you soon, too) so it only imported 1000 contacts, and then I'm stuck trying to figure out how to import the rest of the contacts without getting stuck with duplicate contacts. Sep 20 07:28:51 kwtm: there is a "find duplicates" software in extras. works very nice. Sep 20 07:29:00 kwtm: try it Sep 20 07:29:03 rmrfchik: Aha, I was waiting for someone to mention that. Sep 20 07:29:09 ;) Sep 20 07:29:29 rmrfchik: So, first of all, I don't need to *find* duplicates, because they are tehre right in front of me. Every single one of the contacts ended up being duplicated. Sep 20 07:29:50 rmrfchik: Second, yes, there is a *merge* duplicates software. And guess what it does? Sep 20 07:29:52 kwtm, heh, well I don't have over 1000 contacts so I don't have that problem. and I rarely bump in to giant lists that can't be shortened by typing. appmanager list scrolls super fast. Sep 20 07:29:58 kwtm: tell me Sep 20 07:30:22 kwtm, file manager actually. that one is painfully slow for scrolling Sep 20 07:30:38 rmrfchik: It says, "Here are the list of duplicates I found. WHich ones would you like me to merge"? So after 15 minutes of tapping on the checkbox of every contact, I've done about 70 or 80 contacts. Sep 20 07:31:08 rmrfchik: Apparently there is no facility for "check every one of these ****ing checkboxes so I don't ahve to spend two hours doing it myself!" Sep 20 07:31:31 to continue about nokia/maemo flaws. as skype goes online it download ALL chats it can freezing device for 10 mins (i suppose, telepathy is soooo slow when accessing messages) Sep 20 07:31:51 kwtm, I guess the file manager or file picker scrolling is the most annoying thing I've run in to. Sep 20 07:31:55 kwtm: hehe, welcome to nokia's world Sep 20 07:32:10 Mece_: Okay, so that point's moot too. I guess you just haven't needed to deal with the flaws that I've found. Maybe Nokia engineers also don't have very many friends so they say, "I didn't see any problems with scrolling through my complete list of my two friends." Sep 20 07:32:26 Mece_: (Not directing that insult at you, but really, Nokia should use more test cases...) Sep 20 07:32:33 kwtm, I guess they had me in mind they made the thing. Sep 20 07:32:57 Mece_: the app manager jumps to the app when you start typing the name, but even the launcher doesn't! Sep 20 07:33:19 Mece_: So when I want to run a program for which there is no shortcut, it's back to "scroll scroll scroll" / stroke stroke stroke! Sep 20 07:33:51 I think I will get rich by getting tendinitis using the N900 and then sueing Nokia. Sep 20 07:34:29 kwtm: something is sayining me -- PR1.3 will be tested much worse. Sep 20 07:34:39 rmrfchik: Oh, and --get this-- I find my contacts faster going through the text file in vim (with incremental search) than actually using the Contacts program itself. Sep 20 07:34:41 kwtm, oh that launcher. I don't have so many apps I guess. for some reason it scrolls a little slow though. MohammadAG made a fix for that though. Sep 20 07:35:02 Mece_: Really? How do I get the fix? Sep 20 07:35:30 Mece_: Why, how many apps do you have? After all, installing apps is the purpose of the N900. (That and dropping to shell. :) ) Sep 20 07:35:54 Hi guys ! Sep 20 07:35:55 kwtm, hmm.. there's a thread on tmo somewhere Sep 20 07:36:05 Khertan1, hi Sep 20 07:36:15 MohammadAG51: Hey, we're talking about you. You awake? Sep 20 07:36:30 Hi Mece Sep 20 07:36:54 someone maybe can help me with dbus ... i'm not able to get notification call back Sep 20 07:37:00 and i didn't understand why Sep 20 07:37:01 Khertan1, I was wondering, are you still working on Khteditor Sep 20 07:37:04 Mece_: Okay, next up: the lack of a decent portrait mode for the majority of the apps out there. Sep 20 07:37:21 kwtm, which is obviously moot :P Sep 20 07:37:32 Mece_: between two release of Khweeteur Sep 20 07:37:54 Mece_: but yet there is modification not yet release in extras devel in the git repository Sep 20 07:37:58 Morning, all Sep 20 07:38:11 Morning Jaffa Sep 20 07:38:26 rmrfchik: You think we can hold off until Meego comes out? Sep 20 07:38:31 Morning Sep 20 07:38:49 Morning X-Fade Sep 20 07:39:07 Khertan1, I have a feature request. Are you interested in such? Sep 20 07:39:10 kwtm: well, I'm not going to buy another nokia's device Sep 20 07:39:35 rmrfchik: Any suggestions? Are you looking at an Android device? Those are a lot more locked down, yes? Sep 20 07:39:41 Mece_: yep if someone will use it why not implement it :) Sep 20 07:39:43 kwtm: so, i will be interested in meego only when htc/asus/acer/younameit will announce device Sep 20 07:40:10 kwtm: yes, thinking about android now. but will use n900 as long as it stays alive Sep 20 07:40:23 rmrfchik: Agreed. Because then we will be free of Vendor lock-in. So, actually, I will be interested in Meego when HTC/etc. announce a device, but at that point I will plan to use it on the N900. Sep 20 07:40:30 it was TOOO expenisve in russia just to change Sep 20 07:40:37 * raster waves hands around about maybe stuff from samsung shipping with full linux os's ala maemo :) Sep 20 07:40:45 rmrfchik: Curious: how much did your N900 cost? Sep 20 07:40:50 kwtm: wtf "vendor lock-in"? Sep 20 07:40:52 Khertan1, I've been doing some qml stuff, and was wondering if khteditor could support qml and launching with qmlviewer? Sep 20 07:41:08 raster: Really? Any keywords to google, other than " Sep 20 07:41:12 raster: Bada? Sep 20 07:41:18 kwtm: unfortunately no :( Sep 20 07:41:18 raster: Really? Any keywords to google, other than "samsung linux maemo raster hand-waving"? Sep 20 07:41:22 well "samsung linux platform" Sep 20 07:41:28 all thats up is an sdk we released Sep 20 07:41:32 working on it atm Sep 20 07:41:35 Mece_: hum ... what is the command line to launch the qmlviewer with a qml ? Sep 20 07:41:36 stay tuned Sep 20 07:41:36 :) Sep 20 07:41:42 rmrfchik: not bada. Sep 20 07:41:47 full linux Sep 20 07:42:06 rmrfchik: "vendor lock-in" = "this is only available from Nokia, and if Nokia decides to shut down this project, you N900 owners are all out of luck!" + "HA" x 10. Sep 20 07:42:07 err... bada is same linux as maemo Sep 20 07:42:07 Mece_: does there is somewhere a description for the syntax highlight ? Sep 20 07:42:07 x11, glibc, debian packages (linaro/ubuntu ish core) Sep 20 07:42:17 kwtm: ahh.. yeah Sep 20 07:42:25 rmrfchik: bada is nothinmg likae maemo Sep 20 07:42:32 nothing in the slightest Sep 20 07:42:38 its more like android Sep 20 07:42:41 totally custom userspace Sep 20 07:42:48 raster: well, ok Sep 20 07:42:48 Bada is a bad copy of Symbian, judging by its APIs Sep 20 07:42:51 and currently shipped bada devicesa dont use linux Sep 20 07:42:55 so bada is also linux OS underneath? Sep 20 07:42:56 they use nucleus as the kernel Sep 20 07:43:03 forget bada Sep 20 07:43:08 raster: really?? didn't knew that Sep 20 07:43:14 what a shame for samsung, lol Sep 20 07:43:17 oather part of samsung that is doing stuff in its own bubble :) Sep 20 07:43:21 yeah Sep 20 07:43:27 Well, have you expected anything else from Samsung? Sep 20 07:43:30 Khertan1, /opt/qt4-maemo5/bin/qmlviewer program.qml -fullscreen Sep 20 07:43:33 * rmrfchik didn't count bada as real competitor Sep 20 07:43:40 officially i'm tasked with building community around our linux efforts Sep 20 07:43:47 Khertan1, assuming you have qmlviewer installed Sep 20 07:43:51 as such our linux stuff is damned close to maemo/meego in structure Sep 20 07:43:53 and os Sep 20 07:44:02 raster: our = ? Sep 20 07:44:16 Yeah, I wasn't that impressed with Bada or Android because they "use linux" to run their own program which then runs all these apps. I don't see Debian being cross-compiled for Bada or the Dalvik Java Virtual Machine... Sep 20 07:44:25 Khertan1, -fullscreen is optional, but my app is fullscreen :) Sep 20 07:44:29 if i get my way it also will only be locked down as far as having to agree to void your warranty to get root access Sep 20 07:44:42 (you have to make the telcos happy somehow) Sep 20 07:44:49 RST38h: i work for samsung. Sep 20 07:44:50 meh if bada isn't linux, its never worth looking into.. that was the only thing that got me constantly curious. Samsung could never officially declare if their OS was either custom or linux based because they probably like to keep people guessing Sep 20 07:44:50 raster: Oh, wait, what's this? You represent Samsung in some sort of official capacity? I'm interested. How linux is it? Sep 20 07:45:30 raster: ah, still? Sep 20 07:45:32 RST38h: @ hq. principal engineer. i report to the evp in charge of linux dev. my orders come from executive and i pretty much have free lateral reign to dowhatever it takes Sep 20 07:45:33 raster: ok, you answered my question about working for samsung. Sep 20 07:45:40 kwtm: i do. Sep 20 07:45:50 raster: just move them to meego/maemo/whatever :) Sep 20 07:45:59 i'm just formulating precisely what to do atm Sep 20 07:46:13 RST38h: no chance. qt. rpm. Sep 20 07:46:13 raster: 'cause the Bada thing is just a bad reimplementation of Symbian Sep 20 07:46:20 RST38h: we are basically invested in deb Sep 20 07:46:22 raster: What is wrong with Qt or RPM? Sep 20 07:46:27 RST38h: nothing i can do about bada Sep 20 07:46:28 raster: Oh, that...no problem Sep 20 07:46:30 different group entirely Sep 20 07:46:37 samsung is a massive company Sep 20 07:46:39 raster: You *can* use both Qt and deb Sep 20 07:46:40 Mece_: the best i think will be to made a setting for custom launch command by syntax Sep 20 07:46:52 raster: Okay, I recognize that we can't just tell Samsung to disband Bada and switch to Meego, but how likely/how effortless would it be to port apps to Bada? I mean, is it linux, then? Sep 20 07:46:52 its got too many independently waving tentacles Sep 20 07:46:55 yeah but Symbian isn't linux, its something that resembles more of a cynical version of windows Sep 20 07:46:56 raster: qt, really? no efl? :P Sep 20 07:47:20 RST38h: politically qt is bad. its nokia tech. Sep 20 07:47:21 oh, right Sep 20 07:47:35 raster: It is LGPL, who give a damn? Sep 20 07:47:39 Stskeeps: qt is technically a good toolkit. i personally dont like it as it sucks u inot c++ land Sep 20 07:47:50 and that comes with its own performance issues and i just never liked its api personally Sep 20 07:47:53 but thats a personal thing Sep 20 07:47:56 Khertan1, ok.. :) currently khteditor gets stuck somehow and the "busy" icon remains visible when you open a qml file. Sep 20 07:47:56 kwtm: why ever samsungs should switch to meego? I think all major players want to have non-compatible software stack Sep 20 07:47:57 technically its a very good toolkit Sep 20 07:48:06 politically its no-go :( Sep 20 07:48:25 Mece_ yep i made an error in the pygments call Sep 20 07:48:29 well only way samsung would consider meego is if it changed to deb and made efl and gtk first class toolkit citizens :) Sep 20 07:48:30 raster: Aww, that's crummy that Samsung won't use Nokia tech. I mean, it's GPL'd, for crying out loud. I'd love it for someone at Samsung to think, "Hey, if we switch to Qt, we can go stick Nokia in the gut!" or something. Sep 20 07:48:56 * rmrfchik don't likey c++/python but there is no good alternative. Sep 20 07:49:03 rmrfchik: Well, I was hoping that they'd say, "There's a huge apps base out there so: 1) we wouldn't ahve to develop so many apps, and 2) people would buy us because there are already so many apps". Sep 20 07:49:05 raster: it is easier to make your own debian-based distro then Sep 20 07:49:11 lucky android developers has java Sep 20 07:49:22 rmrfchik: I mean, N900 runs *Gnumeric*, for crying out loud!! Sep 20 07:49:27 kwtm: not useful for us Sep 20 07:49:32 kwtm: ;) Sep 20 07:49:37 and hell - what we have works as good or better than qt anyway Sep 20 07:49:41 raster: making another linux distro is no rocket science Sep 20 07:49:44 efl. Sep 20 07:49:45 rmrfchik: unluckely android developpers have only java Sep 20 07:49:58 * rmrfchik was impressed last freeoffice release with google docs support Sep 20 07:49:59 RST38h: for us its deb stuff Sep 20 07:50:05 we are there already Sep 20 07:50:10 "efl" = ? someone explain please. Sep 20 07:50:10 aha Sep 20 07:50:13 Khertan1: plus all running atop of it. they has SCHEME! Sep 20 07:50:18 kwtm: google, no? Sep 20 07:50:48 RST38h: Explain "google". Is that the answer to "efl=?" Sep 20 07:50:59 rmrfchik: burk Sep 20 07:51:04 kwtm: enlightenment.org Sep 20 07:51:05 :) Sep 20 07:51:18 Khertan1: And is it the same Java as Sun Java, or do you have to port everything to the Dalvik Java? Sep 20 07:51:22 Khertan1: translation failed. syntax error 2. Sep 20 07:52:05 as such the whole toolkit works fast either in software or in opengl (it does a much better job of utilising opengl than qt does last i checked with our crazy french guys who compared the 2) Sep 20 07:52:17 rmrfchik: Are you auto-translating? Khertan1 had spelling errors. Should be "unlucky android developers have only java" Sep 20 07:52:21 much like clutter - efl canbe completely gpu cbased Sep 20 07:52:30 e17 has a gpu and software compositor all built on evas Sep 20 07:52:34 (part of efl) Sep 20 07:52:51 on my device here it's silky smooth :) Sep 20 07:53:00 (ie 60fps+ @ wvga+) Sep 20 07:53:08 raster: Wow, are you saying that there are some aspects in which Qt is worse than GNOME/Gtk? I was trying to figure out why the whole world wasn't already using Qt. Sep 20 07:53:21 nah Sep 20 07:53:26 gtk/gnome is even worse Sep 20 07:53:27 :) Sep 20 07:53:31 talking efl Sep 20 07:53:32 :) Sep 20 07:53:33 kwtm: the reason was the old licence Sep 20 07:53:36 "efl" = "Enlightenment For Linux"? Sep 20 07:53:40 no Sep 20 07:53:45 enlightenment foundation libraries Sep 20 07:54:00 raster: does efl has release something stable ? Sep 20 07:54:01 :) Sep 20 07:54:11 keh alpha release Sep 20 07:54:16 Khertan1: alpha release done Sep 20 07:54:19 beta should happne this week Sep 20 07:54:22 its stable Sep 20 07:54:33 Khertan1: Yeah, but other than historically, now we should all ditch Gtk and go to Qt, right? I mean, they went GPL finally, and then the guys at Canonica say, "Oh, but GPL is *too* free --we should use something that uses LGPL".... come on, man!!! Sep 20 07:54:37 my idea of alpha == what most people think is v3.0 :) Sep 20 07:54:58 kwtm: qt is lgpl :) Sep 20 07:55:09 raster: Well, alpha is version 4.2, if you ask the KDE team. :P Sep 20 07:55:33 raster, so efl is better than qt? Actually there is efl for n900 so one could simply compare, would one be bothered. Sep 20 07:55:37 kwtm: i rest my case :) Sep 20 07:55:49 raster: Is it? Boy, score another point for Qt. I guess it just comes down to politics. Sep 20 07:56:09 Mece_: depends. qt has more mature widgets. efl has a better rendering pipeline and canvas with custom ui's Sep 20 07:56:24 MacDrunk: and there is efl for n900 Sep 20 07:56:28 check maemo extras Sep 20 07:56:30 Mece_ : does this (http://gitorious.org/kate/kate/blobs/master/part/syntax/data/qml.xml) cover all qml syntax highlighting ? Sep 20 07:56:31 look for evas Sep 20 07:56:35 canola uses efl Sep 20 07:56:37 for example Sep 20 07:56:57 kwtm: politics is a factor Sep 20 07:57:04 personal preference is another Sep 20 07:57:04 raster: and his a disaster, not easy to port, and full of bugs :) Sep 20 07:57:09 s/his/is Sep 20 07:57:14 but c++ costs you startup and linking time for sure Sep 20 07:57:20 yes - done the prelink hacks Sep 20 07:57:21 raster: I guess the N900, capable of either Gtk/EFL or Qt, is the best of both worlds... Sep 20 07:57:42 basic c (efl) things load and link in a fraction of the time the SAMe apps take if they start using c++ libs Sep 20 07:57:55 Khertan1, looks pretty good to me. I guess there are changes now and then, but the brunt is there :) Sep 20 07:57:58 raster: Out of curiosity, where are you geographically located? Samsung Korea? Sep 20 07:58:05 kwtm: yes. Sep 20 07:58:34 Mece_: it s a part of Kate :) Sep 20 07:58:42 kwtm: burk Sep 20 07:59:12 raster: Okay, so back to the bottom line. When I buy my next smartphone next year, if I go Bada, how many apps should I expect to find? About half as many as currently available for maemo? More? Less? Sep 20 07:59:29 kwtm: dunno. as i said. dont bother abotu bada :) Sep 20 07:59:41 one of the reasons I love my N900 is that I'm not stuck with a single library. gtk, qt, efl, liqbase... the more the merrier, that's what I say.. Sep 20 08:00:02 Khertan1, I take it that simplifies things? Sep 20 08:00:02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0FYVYtoAT4&feature=player_embedded Sep 20 08:00:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNys6l65K4o&feature=player_embedded Sep 20 08:00:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXK20xuislI&feature=player_embedded Sep 20 08:00:13 raster: Oh... I didn't realize that part. So, ignore Bada and wait for something more linuxy to come out on Samsung? Is there a name, like "Cada" or "Dada" or is that a secret? Sep 20 08:00:25 n900 compositor / gl drivers have quite a lot of issues tho for gl rendering stuff :( Sep 20 08:00:32 kwtm, Dodo perhaps Sep 20 08:00:36 so fullscreen thigns are much faster as compositor turns off Sep 20 08:01:03 kwtm: dunno. call it slp for now :) Sep 20 08:01:07 just when i think efl is dead again... :P Sep 20 08:01:22 going to try and get proepr sdk and some os images and hw out sometime soonish Sep 20 08:01:30 not final production smartphone stuff Sep 20 08:01:36 for now more beagle-boardy level hw Sep 20 08:01:44 ieatlint: not dead at all :) Sep 20 08:01:48 did alpha release last month Sep 20 08:02:00 hehe Sep 20 08:02:06 takes me back to openmoko.. Sep 20 08:02:23 raster: Okay, "SLP". So in 12 months' time, about how many apps can I hope for on a Samsung SLP phone, compared to for Maemo5 on N900? Sep 20 08:02:40 ieatlint: Yeah, I was going to go to OpenMoko but am glad I didn't. Sep 20 08:03:06 kwtm: if you have a time machine i can jump into the future in.. let me borrow it and i'll let you know :) Sep 20 08:03:12 i will say writing apps for efl wasn't bad at all -- once you get past the docs, heh Sep 20 08:03:41 kwtm: freerunner was crappy hw... totally opposite of samsung's babies :) Sep 20 08:03:45 nice hw Sep 20 08:03:53 efl runs like a greased chicken on this Sep 20 08:03:54 :) Sep 20 08:04:01 raster: Okay, I know that was a big vague question, but let me be more specific. SUppose someone wants to port some killer app to SLP --say, Vim. So, how long would you estimate it would take a developer to port vim... a month? A week? Half a year? Sep 20 08:04:39 kwtm: its glibc. x11. standard fileutils Sep 20 08:04:42 raster: I have the ability to travel into the future, at a rate of 60 seconds per minute. :) Sep 20 08:04:46 ubuntu (basically) base Sep 20 08:04:54 for vim u'd apt-get install vim :) Sep 20 08:05:07 but i get the point Sep 20 08:05:10 u mean generic apps Sep 20 08:05:12 u mean gui apps? Sep 20 08:05:22 assuch we intentd to ship both efl and gtk and support both Sep 20 08:05:38 efl right now is our primary internal toolkit as it frankly works better than anything else Sep 20 08:05:47 raster: Oh. That's good news! So, I'd estimate a delay of, say, about 3 months after the first developer version of the phone is released, and then a flood of stuff from Ubuntu after people have set up the infrastructure to port everything over? Sep 20 08:05:54 (and luckily they have me to make sure that in the event it doesnt... that changes) Sep 20 08:05:55 damn these interesting discussions. I'm totally missing this lecture... Sep 20 08:06:26 Mece_: Wait, you're paying attention to the lecture? Who do you think you are, some student or something? :D Sep 20 08:06:29 kwtm: well as such ubuntu is already ported to arm. so it'd be a delay of.. lets say.. 0. Sep 20 08:06:31 :) Sep 20 08:07:16 raster: Wow. Okay. That's great. Another "bottom line" question that should be easier to answer: in how many months do you expect this SLP phone to be available to the general public? Sep 20 08:07:41 Mece_: What is the lecture about? Sep 20 08:07:50 kwtm: "dunno" Sep 20 08:07:53 even if i knew Sep 20 08:07:59 dear god, a ubuntu platform? Sep 20 08:07:59 :P Sep 20 08:08:04 "we dont release product schedules to the public" Sep 20 08:08:13 Stskeeps: hahahha Sep 20 08:08:18 aka "when it's done" Sep 20 08:08:38 the fact that i'm talking at all about what we are doing is highly un-samsung Sep 20 08:08:54 raster: Okay, let me put it this way. If I plan to buy another phone in June 2011, should I wait for samsung or buy whatever's available? Sep 20 08:08:54 it's kind of a new thing about being open and playing by the open source rules/game Sep 20 08:09:34 ie giving back to community. complying with gpl/other oss licenses (well maybe screwing up but INTENDING to comply and willing to make good on it if we screw up) Sep 20 08:09:40 raster: Congrats on the approach, all I can see is I really hope it works out for you. Sep 20 08:09:45 kwtm: i'd wait for it. :) Sep 20 08:09:51 Well, didn't Palm try the old "let's make it Linux so everyone will buy our phone" trick with the Palm Pre? (Followed by the "hey why did all the developers run away just because we provided zero support"?) Sep 20 08:10:12 as such samsung pestered me until i joine4d as they want oss "dna" in the group Sep 20 08:10:18 there area few others Sep 20 08:10:22 raster: Okay. Well, looking forward to the Samsung Linux Phone, whatever it is. Sep 20 08:10:33 we've been beating the whole oss philosophy around Sep 20 08:10:36 (Followed by the "hey why did all the developers run away just because we provided zero support"?) <<< no all developpers run away because the only language available was javascript Sep 20 08:10:45 as such executive - ie next layer up from me, support the oss way. Sep 20 08:11:08 its getting 100's of engineers to change their whole way of working/thinking that they have been doing for years/decades Sep 20 08:11:25 raster: If it helps you to convince the upper management any, know that I (and rmrfchik, I think) use the N900 because there is no alternative, and would seriously consider any competitor that lets us take advantage of already-existing apps on linux. Sep 20 08:11:58 raster: not engineers, managers Sep 20 08:11:58 raster: Yeah, I hear that personal computing in Korea is basically "Internet Explorer + ActiveX + Flash". Sep 20 08:12:06 raster: I doubt engineers care that much Sep 20 08:12:06 kwtm: i know that very dearly. i have an nm900 myself for just that reason Sep 20 08:12:17 RST38h: actually u'd be amazed. Sep 20 08:13:00 raster: Well never worked with Koreans, but Chinese do not care that much: everyone is using LGPLed libraries anyway Sep 20 08:13:05 kwtm, advanced text-algorithms. Sep 20 08:13:13 RST38h: managers care. "middle management"/engineering (middle management in engineering being principal engineers and senior engineers) are another matter Sep 20 08:13:17 raster: my guess is that your biggest fight is going to be getting anyone in the general public to care Sep 20 08:13:17 but its changing for the better Sep 20 08:13:33 ieatlint: yup Sep 20 08:13:33 FOSS isn't going to sway them... seemingly 3rd party apps do Sep 20 08:13:54 ieatlint: but i have to start somewhere Sep 20 08:13:59 and creating a new platform that only samsung uses... good luck :) Sep 20 08:14:00 as such what we have is rather sexy Sep 20 08:14:03 and its smooth Sep 20 08:14:07 i bet Sep 20 08:14:13 it is a full os under it Sep 20 08:14:26 itsd possible to write apps just like u do for a desktop linux box Sep 20 08:14:27 efl is great for small devices... looks pretty, and is snappy Sep 20 08:14:34 ieatlint: hear, hear. If you can get Gnumeric to run on the Samsungphone (using a fraction of the development effort), I think that's really going to sway the market. Sep 20 08:14:37 so it lowers the barrier of entry for devs Sep 20 08:14:38 i guess Sep 20 08:14:54 sure -- but maemo and the n900 didn't get a swarm of people buying simply because you could install xchat Sep 20 08:15:00 but its a chicken and egg problem Sep 20 08:15:01 As long as it is full Linux, it being samsung-proprietary does not matter Sep 20 08:15:08 general public like ooh nad ahh and sexy Sep 20 08:15:16 but that only lasts so long if u dont have content Sep 20 08:15:17 Same as Maemo being Nokia-proprietary does not matter that much Sep 20 08:15:23 ieatlint: No, but I bet having Skype on the N900 did. Too bad it's proprietary. Stupid Skype. Sep 20 08:15:27 RST38h: indeed Sep 20 08:15:37 ieatlint, no, but it did get a whole bunch of exited nerds to buy it. Like me :) Sep 20 08:15:43 as such i'd pretty much think meego and slp will be very close in terms of os infra Sep 20 08:15:45 RST38h: no, i'm not saying the problem is samsung owns it Sep 20 08:15:49 porting between them should be a breeze Sep 20 08:15:57 i dont see qt being not allowed Sep 20 08:16:06 the problem is if only samsung uses it, attracting developers without a userbase is hard Sep 20 08:16:07 its just that sammy wont bother doing the work :) Sep 20 08:16:18 ie u get whatever the apt repos have Sep 20 08:16:39 ieatlint: If Samsung makes it sufficiently compatible with meegotouch and a few other platforms, it should be ok Sep 20 08:16:47 ieatlint: samsung can just buy apps from core developers. to port famouse games/apps Sep 20 08:16:55 That's great! I can install Sucky Kubuntu for Samgsungphone! "Now your phone can suck as much as your laptop!" Sep 20 08:16:57 ah, yeah, if it ran qt and could pull meego apps onto it without them looking like ass (and i mean more the theme fitting), it could do alright Sep 20 08:17:09 that too, samsung has enough money to basically buy developers on case-by-case basis Sep 20 08:17:27 kwtm: hehehe Sep 20 08:17:37 * RST38h does not understand why people are so excited by qt Sep 20 08:17:42 but then you're emphisising meego, and devs will look to create cross-platform apps with meego -- ruining the purported features of avoiding qt/c++ and sticking with efl Sep 20 08:17:50 ieatlint: well not like u have a gazillion meego apps... :) Sep 20 08:17:54 so its all moot atm Sep 20 08:17:54 also, has efl added a proper widget library? Sep 20 08:17:54 :) Sep 20 08:18:00 Qt has been around for years now. There wasn't any commercially successful products with it, still none Sep 20 08:18:06 yeah, i have similar doubts about meego's viability :) Sep 20 08:18:18 brb Sep 20 08:18:32 Why not wait and see what Qt becomes with Nokia's support, then start cheering or booing Sep 20 08:18:49 i suspect qt will improve a lot Sep 20 08:19:02 So far, it is just getting bloated :) Sep 20 08:19:09 people will still have preferences tho Sep 20 08:19:16 RST38h: you mean "mobile apps" or "desktop apps"? Sep 20 08:19:26 rmrfchik: either Sep 20 08:19:59 RST38h: hm, I'm sure, troll couldn't exist without selling. Sep 20 08:20:05 http://qt.nokia.com/qt-in-use Sep 20 08:20:14 Google Earth uses QT. Sep 20 08:20:47 it does indeed Sep 20 08:20:49 qt works Sep 20 08:20:50 RST38h: at the very least i'm pleased with what i've seen of libmeegotouch so far Sep 20 08:20:52 i'm pretty sure, there is a lot of commercial QT appls Sep 20 08:20:53 its been used in many places Sep 20 08:20:56 *apps Sep 20 08:21:03 RST38h, qt has made a lot of progress lately though. QML in particular is very interesting, and that's fairly new iiuc Sep 20 08:21:15 rmrfchk: Of course trolls were selling it (and a whole lot more of support, I suspect) Sep 20 08:21:17 and for a long time the only viable toolkit for cross platform (windows, linux and mac os/x) Sep 20 08:21:24 qml stole a lot of ideas from efl Sep 20 08:21:26 good to see :) Sep 20 08:21:33 rmrfchik: But do you remember any actual retail products based on Qt? Sep 20 08:21:45 hah, QML reminded me of edje when i first saw it Sep 20 08:21:47 RST38h: why? Sep 20 08:21:48 Qtopia-running palmtops were one, but that is about it Sep 20 08:21:48 RST38h: motorola ezx phones Sep 20 08:21:53 rokr eg. Sep 20 08:21:56 and others Sep 20 08:22:03 raster: long forgotten :) Sep 20 08:22:06 ieatlint: glad to be of inspiration :) Sep 20 08:22:16 retail is one of branch of industry Sep 20 08:22:17 RST38h: sure. but it did come out retail :) Sep 20 08:22:19 Mece: UI scripting (QML) has been known since Motif Sep 20 08:22:36 RST38h, in qt? Sep 20 08:22:38 RST38h: tcl/tk :) Sep 20 08:22:39 raster: Yes, but the keyword is "successful" ;) Sep 20 08:22:40 edje was one thing i really liked about efl... fast, and you could replace a programs UI as long as you kept the object names the same Sep 20 08:22:42 my company does a lot of software and only 3 retail box Sep 20 08:22:51 was awesome for building a ui Sep 20 08:22:53 raster: Let us not remember THAT (tcl/tk) Sep 20 08:22:59 lol, and one retail app is written in scheme ;) Sep 20 08:24:38 rmrfchik: REDUCE? =) Sep 20 08:24:50 PLT FTW! Sep 20 08:25:45 * rmrfchik is addicted to chicken though Sep 20 08:26:16 chicken is awesome, and an extremely versatile meat Sep 20 08:27:25 use of suffix trees to detect dna contaminations ftw! Sep 20 08:28:09 amagad Sep 20 08:28:43 mmm Sep 20 08:28:45 greasy chicken Sep 20 08:28:53 the koreans love their hicken & hof Sep 20 08:28:56 err Sep 20 08:28:58 chicken & hof Sep 20 08:29:00 callcc.org is your friend Sep 20 08:29:22 be aware, scheme can change your life Sep 20 08:29:38 i suddenly have a craving for a footlong italian bmt from subway. Sep 20 08:29:47 * RST38h does not know what hof is, but most possibilities that come to mind look unhealthy Sep 20 08:29:59 german "hof" Sep 20 08:30:02 canines and insects mostly Sep 20 08:30:08 courtyard Sep 20 08:30:24 raster: you living in korea now? Sep 20 08:30:26 basically they mean "beer hall" but that basically serves up lots of fried chicken Sep 20 08:30:38 theres a good one in seoul city center Sep 20 08:30:41 RST38h: if you change koreans to chinese, even chicken becmae unhealthy Sep 20 08:30:45 rmrfchik: not sure I would like scheme to change my life Sep 20 08:30:47 *became Sep 20 08:30:53 $us12-13 get you all you can drink beer all night Sep 20 08:30:59 ieatlint: yup. Sep 20 08:31:03 good beer though? Sep 20 08:31:05 raster: ah Sep 20 08:31:34 oo.. new version of witter out. Sep 20 08:31:36 ieatlint: ok beer. Sep 20 08:31:40 i didnt move here fro the beer Sep 20 08:31:43 RST38h: you can't influence on it. you just be enligghted Sep 20 08:32:00 i moved here to realise my dream oif an awesome linux phone u can really develop cool stuff for Sep 20 08:32:02 :) Sep 20 08:32:22 haha... well, i'll be very curious to see what comes out Sep 20 08:32:34 linux is not the aim. Sep 20 08:32:51 usability, openness ARE the aim Sep 20 08:32:53 its a prerequisite :) Sep 20 08:32:59 lol, why? Sep 20 08:33:07 my own sanity Sep 20 08:33:19 linux kernel is already bloated, huge and is controlled by evil Sep 20 08:33:30 as far as i can tell though, asians only seem to be able to make light beers... and that has to be discouraging Sep 20 08:33:31 by linux i mean muchmore than kernel Sep 20 08:33:34 I agree, you don't have the flexibility we have on any other mobile OS out there. Sep 20 08:33:37 the same linux 99% of the world referrs to Sep 20 08:33:42 Yeah, Android doesn't exactly cut it .. Sep 20 08:33:43 linux+gnu+x11 etc. Sep 20 08:33:52 let's look for hacker kernel! what we have here, hurd, darwin, plan9! Sep 20 08:34:01 and of coruse... e :) Sep 20 08:34:12 Heh, a plan 9 mobile :D Sep 20 08:34:18 how about freebsd? :P Sep 20 08:34:25 ieatlint: more of same Sep 20 08:34:34 netbsd would probably be more likely imo Sep 20 08:34:55 With BSD licensing though we'd be screwed by vendors Sep 20 08:35:00 Like Apple have done .. Sep 20 08:35:07 likely Sep 20 08:35:10 rmrfchik: I think you should rewrite Linux kernel in Scheme Sep 20 08:35:20 gpl forced them to become partly open at least Sep 20 08:35:24 alterego: Apple has done quite nicely though Sep 20 08:35:24 linux/*bsd are all the same in general Sep 20 08:35:26 Nokia could have easily done that, but they didn't. Sep 20 08:35:27 and now they are beginnig to see value in it Sep 20 08:35:30 after being forced Sep 20 08:35:40 RST38h: this should be new brave OS Sep 20 08:35:41 RST38h: meh :P Sep 20 08:36:03 * RST38h does not think Nokia has made its OS choice based on the GPL/BSD split Sep 20 08:36:13 Most likely the people making the choice never heard of BSD. :) Sep 20 08:36:25 Indeed, they originally started maemo as a test to see what theycould do with Linux and FOSS Sep 20 08:36:29 * rmrfchik is looking for OS without files/proframs and other obsolete things Sep 20 08:37:04 it's shame for notes applciation to ask to open file and ask to save file. Sep 20 08:37:11 windows 20? Sep 20 08:37:25 I'm sure they'll get their new FS finished eventually ^.^ Sep 20 08:38:14 i don't think this is achiveable with current OS/toolkits Sep 20 08:38:56 Whast's your problem with files? Sep 20 08:39:12 I think maybe more meangfull meta data properly associated with files is a good idea. Sep 20 08:39:31 I don't see wat else you'd have instead of them. Sep 20 08:39:54 Unless you do an Apple and just rename files to something else like "glossy-wank0juice" and say you invented something new. Sep 20 08:39:57 I don't like to open files. PalmOS showed me there is no such thing as files. And back in 199x, VisualAGE did this for programming Sep 20 08:40:54 * rmrfchik afk Sep 20 08:41:09 asdf Sep 20 08:41:30 rmrfchik: as such if your notes app dumbly stored notes in ~/notes Sep 20 08:41:35 still files, just hidden. Sep 20 08:41:42 and simpyly lists all "n otes" in that dir on start Sep 20 08:41:46 and auto-saves as u type Sep 20 08:41:50 there is no need Sep 20 08:41:52 Do files cease to exist if you don't have a file manager? :P Sep 20 08:42:02 hahaha Sep 20 08:42:19 Morning again Sep 20 08:42:26 Khertan1, hi Sep 20 08:42:29 If a file is created in the woods and there's no file manager to see it? Did it actually happen? :P Sep 20 08:42:44 alterego: df says "yes". Sep 20 08:42:52 :D Sep 20 08:42:54 lol Sep 20 08:43:21 Well, df does't report filenames du on the other hand :) Sep 20 08:43:27 morning Sep 20 08:43:47 alterego, I was pondering upon something with qml, wanna share some insights? Sep 20 08:43:51 Hey dneary Sep 20 08:43:58 mece: sure, go ahead. Sep 20 08:44:02 alterego: df will report tyhat more space was used up tho Sep 20 08:44:03 :) Sep 20 08:44:11 mece: the version of KhtEditor in the git repository have now a QML Syntax hilight Sep 20 08:44:22 Khertan1, wow. That was fast! Sep 20 08:44:22 Khertan1: sweet! :) Sep 20 08:44:26 mece: i ven't tested it, so not sure it s work as it s should Sep 20 08:44:41 Khertan1, ok, I'll test it. Sep 20 08:44:45 Khertan1: pyside/pyqt or Qt/C++? Sep 20 08:44:57 pyqt4 Sep 20 08:45:08 Khertan1, where's the repo again? Sep 20 08:45:26 http://gitorious.org/khteditor Sep 20 08:46:02 be careful with replace and find ... it s a bit bugged but i didn't understand yet why Sep 20 08:46:03 Khertan1: what you using for your syntax highlighting engine? Sep 20 08:46:38 * mece is cloning Sep 20 08:47:14 alterego: a home made class derivated from qsyntaxhilighter for python, a home made qsyntaxhilighter for some other language which read rules from xml, and pygments for those which haven't any xml definition yet :) Sep 20 08:47:21 Khertan1, can I properly install this with the setup.py script? Sep 20 08:47:36 mece: it should works (except for depandancies) Sep 20 08:47:45 Khertan1, ok let's see :) Sep 20 08:47:49 Khertan1: cool, is that the same engine Qt Creator uses? Sep 20 08:48:36 alterego: not really, qtcreator use a higher engine which is derivated from qsyntaxhighlighter Sep 20 08:49:04 Hrm, cool, I'd quite like Qt Creator to properly handle other file formats .. Like XML for instance :D Sep 20 08:49:09 Khertan1, seems to be missing plugins_api Sep 20 08:49:09 but if you use pygtkeditor, i can suggest you to give a try to khteditor, even if not yet finished, it s faster Sep 20 08:49:19 mece: hum ... Sep 20 08:49:32 alterego, khteditor is a million times faster and smoother though.. Sep 20 08:49:40 Yeah, I found pgtkeditor too sluggish, so I just stick with vi ^.^ Sep 20 08:50:10 alterego, I recommend trying khteditor. It's very nice imo. Sep 20 08:50:25 just be careful with find and replace :) Sep 20 08:50:42 and if you want to participe to the dev you are welcome :) Sep 20 08:50:46 Heh, will do Sep 20 08:51:00 I'm stuck in Nokia SDK ast the moment though. Sep 20 08:51:02 PICO is still better than Qt Creator =) Sep 20 08:51:04 Once I've finished my backlog. Sep 20 08:51:05 * RST38h hides Sep 20 08:51:12 mece: i just add the missing plugin_api to the git repo Sep 20 08:52:08 * mece is pulling Sep 20 08:52:14 currently there is a pylint plugin which display result in a second window and when you double click on the error it show you the line in your code :) Sep 20 08:52:35 why the hell doesn't my bash3 store my commands?? Sep 20 08:52:38 grr Sep 20 08:52:56 i'm looking for help for fixing khweeteur dbus notifications Sep 20 08:52:59 mece, check the permissions of ~/.bash_history Sep 20 08:53:24 mece: don't close the window, type exit Sep 20 08:54:21 RST38h, yeah, but if I close the window, ALL commands are gone :/ Sep 20 08:54:33 zokier, hmm ok checking Sep 20 08:55:28 Khertan1, plugins_api-py was in the wrong directory. moved it to root and everything worked fine. Sep 20 08:55:34 mece: Oh you mean it does not even store your current commands? Sep 20 08:55:44 mece: to root ? Sep 20 08:56:23 Khertan1, root of repo. where the setup.py file is Sep 20 08:56:42 hum ... should not be the case Sep 20 08:56:49 * Khertan1 is checking Sep 20 08:57:11 Khertan1, ok. well it didn't find it. plugin_api is not a plugin, hence it shouldn't be in the plugins directory afaict. Sep 20 08:57:48 mece: but for derivate reason, it s in it :) Sep 20 08:58:09 as else i cannot use the __subclasses__ Sep 20 08:58:14 Khertan1, ok well it didn't work when it was there and it worked when I moved it to /... Sep 20 08:58:26 mece: strange ... Sep 20 08:58:29 Khertan1, aye Sep 20 08:58:51 ok i understood ... i have a pyo in my folder Sep 20 08:59:43 Khertan1, ok so where should it be? Sep 20 08:59:56 i think i need to fix some code :) Sep 20 09:00:23 RST38h, bash3 stores .bash_history eventhough you close the window :) My .bash_history was owned by root, that was the problem. Sep 20 09:00:36 Khertan1, ok gonna test the qml stuff now anyway. Sep 20 09:00:39 ah, that explains things =) Sep 20 09:01:51 Khertan1, it highlights some stuff.. Sep 20 09:02:56 mece: did i forgot some rules ? Sep 20 09:03:31 Khertan1, I don't know how much it is suppose to highlight. It highlights the objects but not properties. Sep 20 09:03:57 Khertan1, For example "Rectangle" is highlighted but not "width" Sep 20 09:04:26 Khertan1, but it launches :D:D:D Sep 20 09:04:29 * mece cheers Sep 20 09:04:42 :) Sep 20 09:05:20 I tihnk I have to tweet that :) Sep 20 09:06:02 Khertan1, do you mind if i link to the repo on twitter? Sep 20 09:06:18 you can :) Sep 20 09:07:20 * merlin1991 wonders which maemo tweeters one should follow Sep 20 09:08:46 merlin1991: I like sjgadsby's list, http://twitter.com/#/list/sjgadsby/maemo-org Sep 20 09:08:50 arg the pylint plugin is broken Sep 20 09:27:45 noone have dbus skills ? Sep 20 09:28:09 i'm trying to understand why my dbus-callback-default isn't called as it should in khweeteur Sep 20 09:28:38 Your app names are funny :P Sep 20 09:28:40 http://gitorious.org/khweeteur/khweeteur/blobs/master/khweeteur/__init__.py << source here Sep 20 09:28:46 :) Sep 20 09:36:01 Khertan1 it takes lot of time to donload timeline and does it do it everytime from the begining, i mean no history or somethign? Sep 20 09:42:14 ZogG: depends on version there was a bug in 0.0.32, 0.0.33, 0.0.34 Sep 20 09:42:25 in 0.0.35 it didn't take too much time Sep 20 09:42:31 i don't know wich one i had Sep 20 09:42:33 old tweets are cached Sep 20 09:42:38 as well i reported false bug =) Sep 20 09:42:39 ZogG: about menu Sep 20 09:42:40 :) Sep 20 09:43:04 and it try to got from twitter api only the last tweet Sep 20 09:43:10 Khertan1, i didn't used it for several days and it was updated yesterday so can't tell you in what version =)) Sep 20 09:43:31 it could be faster if twitter api has been though before they code it Sep 20 09:43:37 but this isn't the case Sep 20 09:43:39 Khertan1 can you make mentions section? Sep 20 09:43:44 and for some feature it require many calls Sep 20 09:43:50 ZogG: section ? Sep 20 09:44:05 i mean like in web - when i see only my mentions Sep 20 09:44:19 where i have @ZogG i.e. Sep 20 09:44:56 actually mention are unified in the same view Sep 20 09:45:10 that what i meant Sep 20 09:45:23 i want to see all replies and my mentions separetly =) Sep 20 09:45:42 yep ... currently doing separations in the different mention, replies, dm isn't in the roadmap Sep 20 09:46:11 the purpose as the start was to have a unified view contrary to other twitter client that split it in many windows Sep 20 09:46:18 something that i didn't like Sep 20 09:46:31 i think i ll implement a feature to split them ... Sep 20 09:46:38 but not for the moment Sep 20 09:46:46 i ve somethings to fix before like the notifications Sep 20 09:47:13 Khertan1 i think some programs should use swipe screen thing Sep 20 09:47:38 as n900 has feature to swipe from outta screen (left or right) Sep 20 09:48:02 like in microb when you swipe to get mouse Sep 20 09:48:24 ZogG: but none framework permit to have access to it Sep 20 09:48:43 ZogG: the only way i see to do a such feature is to play with xlib Sep 20 09:50:05 Khertan1 hmm the numthy physics has it Sep 20 09:55:40 Hey will dalvik run on anything but android yet? Sep 20 09:55:58 I'm thinking maemo/mer/meego/moblin etc Sep 20 09:58:39 Last 24 what can happen in ten minutes?!?"" Sep 20 10:01:18 nyargh! Sep 20 10:04:20 alterego, hey, there are kids here Sep 20 10:04:26 * ZogG hides MohammadAG51 Sep 20 10:04:33 Any ideas what could be wrong if the GUI apps can't save files even though the fs is fine? Sep 20 10:04:50 "Memory not accessible. Unable to save content." error from camera app, "Memory card not found." from backup Sep 20 10:05:05 dsg try to reboot Sep 20 10:05:09 had the same thing Sep 20 10:05:10 (this is after changing my partitioning layout, but /home and /home/user/MyDocs are mounted Sep 20 10:05:14 ZogG: yep, twice Sep 20 10:05:23 check if it's not full and wherwe does it save Sep 20 10:05:28 dsg is it mmc? Sep 20 10:05:35 /dev/mapper/homeunlocked 1.9G 188.3M 1.7G 10% /home Sep 20 10:05:42 /dev/mapper/mydocsunlocked 9.4G 352.7M 9.0G 4% /home/user/MyDocs Sep 20 10:05:52 It's encrypted partitions on the MMC Sep 20 10:06:07 permissions? Sep 20 10:09:23 ZogG: Yeah, all correct (I tried setting them to 777 even) Sep 20 10:10:36 This is a copy of the default homedir with 'rsync -avx' Sep 20 10:14:38 dsg why would you copy Sep 20 10:14:47 try to make new home dir Sep 20 10:14:50 hello, i would like to ask how can i use gvoice on n900 internet tablet ? Sep 20 10:14:53 and than copy all contect Sep 20 10:15:01 and than remap mount Sep 20 10:16:48 ZogG: To encrypt the home folder. Sep 20 10:17:28 gvoice little bit, don't use pm if you can ask here Sep 20 10:17:33 (it's all working, but I guess there's some app that starts before this is mounted, or ke-recv probes somehow) Sep 20 10:18:30 dsg how do you mount it? Sep 20 10:19:07 dsg, check file permissions Sep 20 10:19:22 dsg, I heard there are similar issues when going from fat to ext3 Sep 20 10:19:39 can you please help me how can i call using gvoice from n900 Sep 20 10:20:08 what do i need to install to play an ogv file? what's the library called? Sep 20 10:20:08 gvoice, never tried it, have you read thru tmo topic? Sep 20 10:20:20 yeah Sep 20 10:20:20 mece ogv? what's that? Sep 20 10:20:22 (don't want to start appmanager Sep 20 10:20:30 i tried searching at maemo.org Sep 20 10:20:51 ZogG: a vorbis video I believe. Sep 20 10:21:23 mece, have you tried extrenal codecs package? Sep 20 10:21:27 vlc? Sep 20 10:21:32 gvoice it's google voice right? Sep 20 10:21:55 yeah Sep 20 10:21:58 mece try to run it in console in mplayer or vlc, i bet it would say what codec is missing Sep 20 10:22:05 dsg: I'd not be surprised camera to get a hickup with non-VFAT still Sep 20 10:22:07 gvoice i think i saw several posts on tmo Sep 20 10:22:15 hmm don't feel like installing them right now. Sep 20 10:22:18 gvoice, to a landline / mobile? Sep 20 10:22:36 dsg maybe you should search for bug in bugzilla and if there is no-one - report it? Sep 20 10:23:01 oh, right, that's what gvoice is Sep 20 10:23:07 mece i have player and package for extra codecs so mkv and flac and other stuff works for me Sep 20 10:23:24 gtalk calls work out of box for me Sep 20 10:23:55 dsg: also camera-ui is preloaded in init aiui. If your fs isn't unlocked then, you at very least might to have to 'killall camera-ui" Sep 20 10:24:20 hi, it seems if the boot process falls for whatever reason, it just reboots. Is there some switch to see boot messages, avoid the reboot, or log somewhere? I see the 'knightrider' dots and then reboot ... Sep 20 10:25:09 visz mobile Sep 20 10:25:31 cheriff: too bad, search for 'bootloop' in chanlogs and wiki/tmo Sep 20 10:26:04 DocScrutinizer: thanks for the keyword tip! Sep 20 10:26:55 cheriff: basically your options are R&D or reflash, or a rescue system if you installed any and can get to bootmenu Sep 20 10:29:20 ogv is ogg theora, I guess libtheora0 is what I need? Sep 20 10:29:28 oh I already have that. damn Sep 20 10:30:02 ogg-support meta package perhaps? Sep 20 10:30:28 ah yes. gstreamer plugin was missing. Sep 20 10:34:57 hmm, it seems trackerd is also just indexing /. In media player I have all the little ping and pong sounds and the startup "hands" video, but nothing else Sep 20 10:35:19 Maybe my gconf is fubar. Sep 20 10:35:56 That can also be a symptom of emmc-failure Sep 20 10:36:31 SpeedEvil: emmc isn't used here (I've remounted home and MyDocs) Sep 20 10:37:08 DocScrutinizer: ah, i wasnt woried about the brick of the loop, i just trying to find whats actually happening Sep 20 10:37:09 What do you mean? Sep 20 10:38:29 lo SpeedEvil Sep 20 10:38:50 lo Sep 20 10:39:06 SpeedEvil: dsg has a crypted fs Sep 20 10:39:36 I strongly doubt mp4 vids will happily safe to it anyway Sep 20 10:39:48 just for missing CPU grunt Sep 20 10:40:07 is anyone using google voice on n900 ? i need some help ;/ Sep 20 10:40:17 Not here. Sep 20 10:40:43 oh, i i wanted to ask, is it possible to transfer sms history to pc ? Sep 20 10:40:47 * rmrfchik is avoiding to do messaging on N900. it so f.cking slow Sep 20 10:40:50 hmm ogg-support seems to have fucked up some stuff. I think i need to restart tracker Sep 20 10:40:58 sorry, my email and voicecals don't need any indexind by google Sep 20 10:43:28 i have been chatting with some people since like 6 months ago and i would like to save this messaging history to my computer, is it possible ? Sep 20 10:44:10 just out of curiosity: is Andridiot using 4.4.4.4/8.8.8.8 by default now? Sep 20 10:48:12 hmm.. can one get the id of a window on the n900? Sep 20 10:52:30 mece: lrn2ask Sep 20 10:52:58 DocScrutinizer, :) never mind, it was not the problem. Sep 20 10:55:04 mece: for your convenience: http://www.made-in-china.com/Construction-Decoration-Catalog/Plastic-Window.html can be called in microb as well Sep 20 10:55:20 lots of IDs Sep 20 10:56:43 L M A O Sep 20 10:57:00 hrw: hello again :) Sep 20 10:57:52 hrw: I just wanted to ask if I can translate your great article bout Qt UI design for russian students :) Sep 20 10:58:42 wazd, why not? Sep 20 10:59:03 * RST38h moos at wazd evilly Sep 20 10:59:13 if you refer to original and author Sep 20 10:59:24 wazd, are you teacher Sep 20 10:59:29 RST38h: o/ :) Sep 20 10:59:36 ZogG: not quite :) Sep 20 10:59:51 ZogG: anyway, I prefer to ask first :) Sep 20 10:59:58 wazd so? Sep 20 11:00:11 yeah, PC Sep 20 11:00:15 wazd, you are .....? communist? =) Sep 20 11:00:16 wazd: any news on that applet project? Sep 20 11:00:41 ZogG: With a nick like that, I would not ask =) Sep 20 11:01:17 RST38h, it's only known in russia, for others it's hero from astroboy Sep 20 11:01:17 ??? Sep 20 11:01:33 RST38h, you would laught but i'm from israel Sep 20 11:01:37 RST38h: not quite, we're trying to figure out how to get that awesome irish visa :) Sep 20 11:01:38 damn commies Sep 20 11:01:45 wazd: sure, you can. Sep 20 11:02:06 wazd: leave author information and link to blog post. Sep 20 11:02:15 hrw: sure :) Sep 20 11:02:23 wazd: and I will like to get a copy and link so will add on my page Sep 20 11:04:00 ZogG: Exactly! Sep 20 11:05:24 ~translate ru, en ZogG Sep 20 11:05:47 ZogG: And of course it is known, do you think Russians invented it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government Sep 20 11:06:05 ZogG: Rates somewhere between Little Green Men and Cthulhu in Internet popularity Sep 20 11:06:37 RST38h, DocScrutinizer is german and didn't know Sep 20 11:07:06 in their country they think there are no more left of people like me =))) Sep 20 11:07:16 wazzup Sep 20 11:07:48 ZogG: I actually wonder if Robert Harris' "Fatherland" is allowed in Germany Sep 20 11:08:30 ZogG: 'cause despite being clearly antinazi, it probably violates every second letter of the German law about the subject Sep 20 11:08:37 didn't read or know bout it Sep 20 11:08:48 * DocScrutinizer tells TAsn to meet MohammadAG51 to rush over ZogG together Sep 20 11:09:20 MohammadAG51 likes me =)) Sep 20 11:09:23 i hope Sep 20 11:09:35 RST38h i don't like any fanatic point of view Sep 20 11:09:43 there are no right in there Sep 20 11:09:49 beyond them i mean Sep 20 11:10:17 is it dangerous to install from the fremantle sdk repo on the actual tablet ? Sep 20 11:10:33 Usually not. Sep 20 11:10:40 I need zlib1g-dev Sep 20 11:10:46 but nothing there is optified Sep 20 11:10:46 it's removed from extras-devel Sep 20 11:10:53 oh Sep 20 11:11:05 ZogG: don't joke about my suffering from this shitty country I live in Sep 20 11:11:10 but zlib1g-dev wouldn't have to be optified right ? Sep 20 11:11:12 For one library, it's not a risk as I understand it. Sep 20 11:11:42 ZogG: otoh your government seems even worse Sep 20 11:11:54 i hate any goverment Sep 20 11:12:09 ~government Sep 20 11:12:09 hmm... government is broken. It doesn't work. It doesn't keep our streets safe and it doesn't educate our children. Government is good at only one thing: It breaks your legs, hands you a pair of crutches, and says, 'See, without us you wouldn't be able to walk.'. Libertarians need to STFU Sep 20 11:12:16 my goverment are old pricks that wouldn't care bout nothing but money Sep 20 11:12:36 they are in there from the begging of israel Sep 20 11:12:37 ZogG: wow, are you also from russia? o_O Sep 20 11:13:05 rmrfchik i don't live there for past 10 years Sep 20 11:13:18 it was joke/ Sep 20 11:13:43 though this statement isn't exactly what I think a government _should_ do, I'm d'accord with the notion what it actually does do to you Sep 20 11:13:45 s/israel/russia. nothing will change in your statement Sep 20 11:14:06 Doc: Hey, you said Germany was cool? Sep 20 11:14:26 RST38h: eeh? Sep 20 11:14:34 ME?? Sep 20 11:14:47 I even hate the concept of nations Sep 20 11:15:35 so much I honestly considered trying to get a UN passport Sep 20 11:15:50 * lolloo thought he was in a politcal channel. Sep 20 11:17:16 Doc: You do understand that UN is a cover organization for the aliens? =) Sep 20 11:17:33 Doc: Who are, of course, conspire with ZogG to rule the world, etc Sep 20 11:17:38 cool, home at last :-P Sep 20 11:19:25 RST38h, wazd i have some arguments about maemo vs iOS on russian chan - wana join? =) Sep 20 11:19:43 ZogG channel name? Sep 20 11:19:48 ZogG: oh my :) Sep 20 11:19:53 I hope it is not #apple_ru ort something? Sep 20 11:20:12 meh yuck Sep 20 11:21:00 RST38h: who knows, who knows Sep 20 11:21:24 OMG Sep 20 11:22:23 ZogG: You know what, I am already banned there! Never visited this cesspit, but I guess they are always vigilant Sep 20 11:26:06 ZogG: No, that is not how average NNM poster looks Sep 20 11:26:23 say waht? Sep 20 11:26:28 it's not really nnm Sep 20 11:26:31 not anymore Sep 20 11:26:59 ZogG: Have to check lurkmore for news then :) Sep 20 11:27:27 i don't visit these kind of sites Sep 20 11:27:39 habr welinux and lor Sep 20 11:27:47 just for reading Sep 20 11:28:43 ZogG: anyways, I do not think it is worth arguing with the jobs-bitten Sep 20 11:29:39 ZogG: if you want fun, try the baptists, the apple nuts are too boring Sep 20 11:31:20 RST38h one of them is applefag and other normal guy but he is thinking maemo and meego rip =) Sep 20 11:31:41 RST38h i like that kind of arguing =) Sep 20 11:36:03 ZogG: Only if you convince them to commit suicide at the end and we get the video Sep 20 11:36:15 ZogG: Otherwise, it is pointless. Sep 20 11:36:41 is there a reason not to use gcc/g++ 4.4 in the maemo/scratchbox? default install seems to be 4.2 Sep 20 11:38:15 pigeon: probably causes random warnings/errors with the base packages Sep 20 11:38:40 pigeon: alternatively, when the current scratchbox has been created, 4.4 may not have been mature enough Sep 20 11:38:46 I'm trying to compile an application. Compiling returns errors with weird characters such as "src/main.cpp:177: error: â?~BACKSCREENâ?T was not declared in this scope". I got the source off maemo.org. What could be wrong ? Sep 20 11:39:58 seems like a matter of encoding Sep 20 11:40:31 jacktheripper: probably unicode quote marks Sep 20 11:40:53 ( ZogG: if you want fun) anti-vegan Sep 20 11:41:02 Doc: Actually, yes Sep 20 11:41:11 RST38h, and g++ doesn't read unicode ? Sep 20 11:41:21 Doc: Or any animal lovers in general. Dog ladies, cat ladies, etc Sep 20 11:41:35 jacktheripper: there's unicode, and then there's unicode Sep 20 11:41:37 jacktheripper are you sure it's unicode there? Sep 20 11:41:41 jacktheripper: I have no idea what caused the error message itself Sep 20 11:41:54 jacktheripper: so, cannot answer your question Sep 20 11:41:56 not sure yet. Sep 20 11:43:19 jacktheripper: how about you just post the code in question on a pastebin so we can have a look? Sep 20 11:43:22 it's ANSI. And those characters in the error messages don't exist when I view it. Sep 20 11:43:37 jacktheripper: a lot of people in this channel are good, but still Sep 20 11:43:46 ok sure wait a sec Sep 20 11:43:49 what do you view it with/ Sep 20 11:43:50 ? Sep 20 11:43:54 it's available on maemo.org. But I'll post it here Sep 20 11:43:58 notepad2 on windows. Sep 20 11:44:02 then post a link? Sep 20 11:44:13 yes I'll post a link here, sec Sep 20 11:44:33 and AFAIK, notepad2 supports unicode garbage. Sep 20 11:44:44 it does Sep 20 11:45:27 jacktheripper, dos2unix those files Sep 20 11:45:34 crashanddie \о/ Sep 20 11:45:41 from linux Sep 20 11:45:53 it's not there for maemo ? Sep 20 11:45:53 ZogG: I didn't say I understood unicode Sep 20 11:46:09 and paste the link where you got them from Sep 20 11:46:10 lcuk: why, exactly? Sep 20 11:46:32 crashanddie i mean hi Sep 20 11:46:46 cos windows infects them often enough i just disinfect mine on a regular basis :P Sep 20 11:46:46 lcuk: d2u would only make sense if he edited the files on windows with an editor that it nix-agnostic Sep 20 11:47:04 if he copied/pasted from browser Sep 20 11:47:07 on windows Sep 20 11:47:11 moo lcuk Sep 20 11:47:11 he will have the crlf Sep 20 11:47:20 lo crashanddie Sep 20 11:47:27 still has nothing to do with the error message presented Sep 20 11:47:31 cos thats how it rolls Sep 20 11:47:48 it actually might be a line ending problem with notepad2 Sep 20 11:47:49 well thats what i want to see the wiki itself for Sep 20 11:47:58 yeah line endings are set to windows :S Sep 20 11:48:25 don't you have better editor in win? Sep 20 11:48:44 that's the best editor imo. It provides an option. Nothing wrong with it Sep 20 11:48:47 or we can copy and save it in file and upload to you Sep 20 11:49:05 Noma, not a line ending prob. I'll post the link Sep 20 11:49:16 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/p/psx4all/psx4all_0.3.9.tar.gz Sep 20 11:49:21 uhh not Noma Sep 20 11:49:27 nick completion :S Sep 20 11:49:32 *no Sep 20 11:50:02 Doc: Btw, there are targets better than vegans Sep 20 11:50:03 jacktheripper, what is that app? Sep 20 11:50:11 a psx emulator Sep 20 11:50:12 Doc: *Twitter users* Sep 20 11:50:17 lol Sep 20 11:50:41 Doc: Can be harassed by saying, informatively, "Just took a shit." Sep 20 11:51:32 that was the source. On compiling. It gives these errors http://pastebin.com/VFQafPwc Sep 20 11:52:39 RST38h i'm twitter user =0 Sep 20 11:52:41 guys, nevermind, sorry for the trouble. I'll just compile it on scratchbox, it was meant to be anyway. Sep 20 11:53:16 jacktheripper, those arent unicode errors Sep 20 11:53:26 thats your compiler trying to colorise the output Sep 20 11:53:56 and the windows terminal doesn't support it, sweet. Sep 20 11:54:01 and because you miss minimal.h Sep 20 11:54:03 I'm sshing from windows, that's why it happens Sep 20 11:54:09 its making loads of stuff fail Sep 20 11:54:09 ZogG: And I just took a shit! Sep 20 11:54:23 thanks Sep 20 11:54:36 RST38h, meh, not that kinda user =) Sep 20 11:54:44 ZogG: You should ask wazd about him and a tent-ful of twitter users =) Sep 20 11:54:49 i just post when i'm on bus and mostly reply Sep 20 11:56:07 RST38h, https://twitter.com/Shlegel/status/24920948543 Sep 20 11:56:11 jacktheripper, you lack installing the build-depends Sep 20 11:56:14 not me =) Sep 20 11:56:42 on the scratchbox, make sure the same source repository is available that you got the source from Sep 20 11:57:02 "and use apt-get builddep [package]" or similar to install all the build dependencies needed Sep 20 11:57:07 like the gp2x libraries etc Sep 20 11:58:35 RST38h: so i should stick with 4.2? what about 4.3? Sep 20 11:59:15 RST38h, are you still in US? Sep 20 11:59:18 pigeon: you should check the list of available gcc toolchains Sep 20 11:59:34 pigeon: and use the latest one, unless you start having problems, then use the older one Sep 20 11:59:50 pigeon: AFAIK, sb2 offers gcc 4.4.3 or something as the latest toolchain Sep 20 11:59:57 Dunno about sb1 Sep 20 12:00:06 lcuk: Nope, back to .ru Sep 20 12:00:39 RST38h: yeah, i can see 4.3.5 and 4.4.4 available Sep 20 12:01:09 Use the latest one, it is supposed to generate better ARM code Sep 20 12:01:23 lcuk: thank you, I'm rebooting Sep 20 12:18:16 moo lardman Sep 20 12:18:22 hey RST38h Sep 20 12:18:46 \o Sep 20 12:18:54 hi lcuk Sep 20 12:19:36 hey lardman how goes your monday? Sep 20 12:19:54 work PC PSU knackered, so walked back home Sep 20 12:20:13 but not too bad, got a load of conferences out of the way, so can do some work now, which is nice :) Sep 20 12:23:00 yeah Sep 20 12:23:20 simon i still wonder how to handle that barcode picture from barcelona Sep 20 12:24:00 which one was that? Sep 20 12:24:06 (as I never made it over there :( Sep 20 12:24:48 http://liqbase.net/liq.barcode.advert.barcelona.for.lardman.20091204_002.jpg Sep 20 12:24:50 pluggable camera app is the way forward, give the option of a button toopen a Google Goggles type app Sep 20 12:25:06 it was on the billboard near the hotel Sep 20 12:25:11 :) Sep 20 12:25:24 its like identifying the individual flowers hen you have a bunch Sep 20 12:25:27 that will work - zbar will return multiple barcodes (all the same in this instance) Sep 20 12:25:46 so, is there a home widget for going online/offline with a single tap? Sep 20 12:25:49 afaiu anyway Sep 20 12:26:18 i wonder, if i can port maemo to x86? Sep 20 12:26:22 mgedmin: I also feel the pain of trying to disconnect and needing to wait for the pop up to be filled with new connections Sep 20 12:26:30 ZogG: yes Sep 20 12:26:40 lardman, so that's a no then? Sep 20 12:26:55 i havent heard of one yet Sep 20 12:27:02 mgedmin: I've not seen anything Sep 20 12:27:05 but it will emerge sometime Sep 20 12:27:06 mgedmin i think there is for power button Sep 20 12:27:24 just today Sep 20 12:28:50 mgedmin, talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60473 Sep 20 12:28:57 this one is good enuf? Sep 20 12:29:56 anyone using DreamRemote with DB7000 model? Sep 20 12:31:17 ZogG, I'd prefer a home widget ... Sep 20 12:31:24 talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47623&highlight=widget+offline Sep 20 12:31:37 maybe this one can do the trick Sep 20 12:31:38 are there any new and decent calendar apps out? Sep 20 12:32:12 * mgedmin is trying --- oh the app manager sucks, I can't see the name of the thing I just installed while it's busy burning my CPU to ashes Sep 20 12:32:20 indeed Sep 20 12:32:34 ConnectNow, I think Sep 20 12:32:50 seems to work -- one tap, a 6 second pause (because the app manager is still burning CPU), and I'm offline Sep 20 12:33:30 waaah either my n900 needs a RAM upgrade, or FBReader needs some optimization Sep 20 12:33:39 * lardman considers the things that drive him mad with the N900 - calendar, HAM, maps; and then considers that these are things that get the most use too Sep 20 12:34:37 hm, ConnectNow hardcodes the connection name instead of using my wifi when it's available Sep 20 12:34:47 but at least it'll work for "go offline now, I want my battery to last" Sep 20 12:36:52 lardman, and I am still taking photos of maps and stuff Sep 20 12:37:18 the configuration dialog has a mysterious slider set to 96, I've no idea what it means Sep 20 12:37:20 size of the icon? Sep 20 12:37:40 yes Sep 20 12:37:41 buswhat mysterious slider o_O Sep 20 12:37:45 -bus Sep 20 12:38:22 the icon has no padding, grr this is going to irritate me all the time Sep 20 12:39:32 ZogG, thanks, I think that's precisely the widget that I found by scrolling the list of Desktop apps in app-manager Sep 20 12:39:34 * lcuk needs a coffee machine Sep 20 12:39:49 (app-manager sorts them by I Don't Know What, and doesn't let me change the sort order, grr wtf grr) Sep 20 12:40:02 barisione, your ballpark, can i get one with a hose that will just keep my cup filled up? Sep 20 12:40:19 I think it *used* to let me switch between "by name" and "by size", and I'd switched to "by size", and I think it still remembers that in gconf somewhere even though it no longer lets me change the order Sep 20 12:40:26 which is crackful if true Sep 20 12:42:58 oh fun, supposedly there's a hildon-desktop bug that makes it drain my battery if I add connectnow? Sep 20 12:43:11 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=815339&postcount=101 Sep 20 12:43:30 how's that possible? why connectnow, specifically? Sep 20 12:43:34 thats been fixed then Sep 20 12:43:39 just pending update Sep 20 12:43:59 mgedmin, i have a single widget that crashes on closure Sep 20 12:44:01 others dont Sep 20 12:44:07 i just missed something off on that one place Sep 20 12:45:08 hm trying to capture screen with ffmpeg, but I dunno which encoder I should use. what is recommended on n900? Sep 20 12:45:46 mece, so you want a video capture? Sep 20 12:45:53 for a screencast Sep 20 12:46:10 lcuk yah Sep 20 12:46:15 lcuk, just a file Sep 20 12:46:32 lcuk anything. I just don't know what the encoders are called. Sep 20 12:47:13 idk, the only time i tried to do a screencast i used vnc2swf or something Sep 20 12:47:26 was gonna do something like ffmpeg -an -s 800x480 -r 25 -f x11grab -i :0.0 -vcodec something aoutput.something Sep 20 12:47:53 i want to record what i do on screen Sep 20 12:48:36 compiled recordmydesktop, but I only got one misscolored frame so I figured I'd give ffmpeg a go Sep 20 12:49:45 heh Sep 20 12:50:34 so for example h.264 wtf is the name of the encoder? Sep 20 12:51:48 anyone pinged? Sep 20 12:51:53 mp4v is the FOURCC used by the built-in recoprder Sep 20 12:52:05 mp4v? ok. Sep 20 12:52:20 hmm Sep 20 12:52:23 unknown encoder Sep 20 12:52:26 yeah, just looking at the output of GSpot Sep 20 12:52:28 hmm indeed Sep 20 12:52:36 someone at school got an N900 Sep 20 12:52:46 an admin even (argh) Sep 20 12:52:54 Nokia Messaging doesn't work for him Sep 20 12:53:05 keeps prompting for a pass, any ideas? Sep 20 12:53:20 enter the correct password would be a start Sep 20 12:53:22 point him to tmo Sep 20 12:53:22 people use that? Sep 20 12:53:23 LOL Sep 20 12:53:34 what luke-jr said! Sep 20 12:53:41 i'm suspecting yahoo imap/pop needs a pass Sep 20 12:53:46 err, a subscription Sep 20 12:54:00 Stskeeps, we have enough trolls ty Sep 20 12:54:16 lcuk, he's been doing it all week Sep 20 12:54:23 eep Sep 20 12:54:39 i believe texrat uses it Sep 20 12:54:49 so could get some input from him Sep 20 12:54:49 NM? I use it too Sep 20 12:55:03 so have you tried putting your credentials into his device Sep 20 12:55:07 to confirm it actually works Sep 20 12:55:18 MohammadAG51: no, not NetworkManager! Sep 20 12:55:22 then say "noob" at him and tell him to enter correct details ;) Sep 20 12:55:23 mece: of course the encoder and player both use GStreamer Sep 20 12:55:38 hmm, good idea, i'll try that tomorrow Sep 20 12:55:38 lcuk, well, different accounts Sep 20 12:55:44 Yahoo sucks Sep 20 12:55:49 he uses that Sep 20 12:56:02 * MohammadAG51 uses GMail, Hotmail and Live (different addies) Sep 20 12:56:35 ShadowJK, is there a way to check if a battery is fake? Sep 20 12:56:52 lardman, found libtheora.. let's see Sep 20 12:56:53 take it apart Sep 20 12:56:55 MohammadAG51, if you actually show him that Nokia Messaging works Sep 20 12:56:59 it becomes less a device issue Sep 20 12:57:13 ShadowJK, SW methods? Sep 20 12:57:15 mece: you could try using ximagesrc as a source for a gst pipeline, no idea if it would work mind you Sep 20 12:57:19 and gives him more confidence to move past it if hes blocking Sep 20 12:57:21 MohammadAG51, no Sep 20 12:57:32 even lshal? Sep 20 12:58:43 The N900's keyboard rocks (when it's new at least) Sep 20 12:58:56 it sure does Sep 20 12:58:56 his is matte-y, mine is glossy a bit Sep 20 12:59:00 and it's not oil Sep 20 12:59:36 the slider's also a bit tight on new devices Sep 20 12:59:44 makes me wanna buy a new N900 :P Sep 20 13:00:03 i wonder how easy it would be to tighten up slider Sep 20 13:00:14 tape does it well Sep 20 13:00:20 :| Sep 20 13:00:32 at least that's what tehkseven (Jon) did Sep 20 13:00:32 i took apart an x3 the other day and repaired its screen Sep 20 13:01:11 the slider also has a nice click Sep 20 13:01:19 mine doesn't click when I close it slowly Sep 20 13:01:20 indeed Sep 20 13:01:41 mine does Sep 20 13:01:49 but the screen face is out of alignment by about 1mm Sep 20 13:02:48 * lcuk hit the roof on n900fly Sep 20 13:02:52 MohammadAG51, well, some fake batteries show up with stupid design.capacity on lshal. Some don't. Sep 20 13:03:35 battery.reporting.design = 1264 (0x4f0) (int) Sep 20 13:05:54 And then another sign is when battery meter suddenly drops from somthing large-ish to empty Sep 20 13:06:32 is 2 bars largish? Sep 20 13:06:32 or about 3 Sep 20 13:06:35 hmm Sep 20 13:06:38 Battery low Sep 20 13:06:48 The bars are useless Sep 20 13:06:51 it wasn't exactly low... Sep 20 13:07:08 201 mAh is low? Sep 20 13:07:10 wtf Sep 20 13:07:19 uh how do I do a wait and then execute command on one line? Sep 20 13:07:23 in shell Sep 20 13:07:23 201 according to what? Sep 20 13:07:34 battery.reporting.current = 201 (0xc9) (int) Sep 20 13:07:36 like sleep 5 | do stuff Sep 20 13:07:43 MohammadAG51, usually that becomes 5 at battery low Sep 20 13:07:48 && or ; Sep 20 13:07:53 ShadowJK, yeah I know Sep 20 13:08:02 but it shows 201 on this battery (I have 3) Sep 20 13:08:09 2 of them behave, this doesn't Sep 20 13:08:30 it kinda looks fishy too Sep 20 13:08:34 But anyway, you need like 2 measurements close together in time, plus the third battery low one to say anything.. as the meter is lazily updated you might just be looking at the hours old value when you come out of standby Sep 20 13:09:03 I'd disassemble it :-) Sep 20 13:09:06 * lcuk ponders an afternoon beer Sep 20 13:09:12 Is there an easy way to list which programs are using up how much space on my n900? Sep 20 13:09:14 ShadowJK, is disassembling it easy? Sep 20 13:09:22 I have 1.2gig used in my /home and I don't have that much installed XD Sep 20 13:09:22 lcuk: :) Sep 20 13:09:30 lardman, long weekend ftw Sep 20 13:09:32 du -h /opt Sep 20 13:09:34 it feels like sunday Sep 20 13:09:37 MohammadAG51, probably not :) Sep 20 13:09:42 lcuk: ah, nice Sep 20 13:09:43 irreversible too :D Sep 20 13:09:47 Could someone send me their output of "gconftool -R /system/osso/af/mmc" from a working phone? thx :) Sep 20 13:09:51 I guessed so xD Sep 20 13:09:58 ah got it Sep 20 13:10:06 ShadowJK, X-Ray? :P Sep 20 13:10:09 Jef91: maps perhaps? Sep 20 13:10:09 (sleep 5; command) Sep 20 13:10:28 && or ; Sep 20 13:10:44 lardman Sygic resides in /home/MyDocs or are you talking about maemo maps? Sep 20 13:10:45 and why the () ? Sep 20 13:10:58 & for at the same time (i.e don't wait for the previous one to exit) Sep 20 13:11:11 Jef91: Mappero perhaps? Sep 20 13:11:13 it's /home/user/MyDocs Sep 20 13:11:26 whatevs mohammad :P Sep 20 13:11:28 Jef91: just cd to the dir and issue du > somefile.txt Sep 20 13:11:52 mappero eats up space lardman? I know I have that installed Sep 20 13:12:01 yeah, the map tiles do Sep 20 13:12:07 dsg, http://pastie.org/1169943 Sep 20 13:12:20 MohammadAG51: and && requires that the previous command does not fail of course Sep 20 13:12:20 mgedmin: Thanks Sep 20 13:12:38 dsg, internal-mmc-corrupted = false Sep 20 13:12:39 mmc-corrupted = true Sep 20 13:12:54 ext3 ^ Sep 20 13:13:40 God installing things from ovi takes a year and a half Sep 20 13:15:38 I've never even looked at Ovi Sep 20 13:16:03 * MohammadAG51 uses apt to install from Ovi Sep 20 13:16:09 has some decent games Sep 20 13:16:10 probably haven;t missed much Sep 20 13:16:27 mohammandag51 is there a package list somewhere for the ovi packages? Sep 20 13:17:07 lardman: Same here, never looked at Ovi after trying Ovi Maps. Either there is something major I am missing, or they hired some high school student to design the interface for a summer job. Sep 20 13:17:42 anyone know what is up with nokia taking the n900 off their US website? Sep 20 13:18:05 Jef91: Anything from Ovi Store worth looking at, besides games? Sep 20 13:18:17 Uhh. No not really. Sep 20 13:18:26 Nokia USA has never done anything consistent and logical afaik :-) Sep 20 13:18:46 Only non-FOSS apps on my n900 are games and sygic Sep 20 13:18:52 kwtm: :) Sep 20 13:19:04 there's some utilities on ovi, stuff like spirit level Sep 20 13:19:18 is Ovi a web page? Sep 20 13:19:24 or a webapp? Sep 20 13:19:24 Basically. Sep 20 13:19:28 Webpage Sep 20 13:19:37 you can actually view on a PC Sep 20 13:19:42 and send the apps to the n900 Sep 20 13:19:45 which then uses HAM to do the installation? Sep 20 13:19:58 HAM? Sep 20 13:20:03 Jef91: you deleted phone application??? Sep 20 13:20:05 hildon application manager Sep 20 13:20:18 ahh - yes lardman Sep 20 13:20:21 brave man! Sep 20 13:20:53 Jef91: well that's the major problem, it would really have been better imho to integrate the Ovi store in the HAM app Sep 20 13:21:18 Yep Sep 20 13:21:20 and at the same time do the useful things one gets on Android/iPhone like bg installs, ratings and reviews all integrated Sep 20 13:21:20 fully agree Sep 20 13:21:47 pfff Sep 20 13:21:49 Lardman. Sep 20 13:21:54 If you keep talking logic like this. Sep 20 13:21:59 Someone from nokia is going to hunt you down Sep 20 13:22:04 lol Sep 20 13:22:11 And well, maybe put you on the payroll Sep 20 13:22:30 there has always been an issue with paying for applications that required payment.. that plus the fact that I think n900 was rushed to be released, with the UI lacking many usability it goes to show nothing was thought thoroughly and done thoroughly Sep 20 13:22:38 I've done my fair share of talking to the Nokia devs Sep 20 13:22:51 psycho_oreos, nokia always acknowledged that n900 was not ready for the mainstream user Sep 20 13:22:52 fully agree psycho_oreos pr1.2 Sep 20 13:22:55 should have been the release OS Sep 20 13:22:57 "step 4 out of 5" Sep 20 13:23:03 lol, nokia harmless. they can't manage to make good software, how can the manage to hunt man down? this is much harder ;) Sep 20 13:23:25 apt-get install kroll is giving me "E:Handler silently failed" Sep 20 13:23:41 What does that mean? Been using apt-get on desktop distros awhile now and never seen that Sep 20 13:23:44 mgedmin, its quite sad really, especially if you're expecting a linux on a phone feature and something that isn't android based... here you have it Sep 20 13:23:52 Anyway hopefully things will be different with Meego Sep 20 13:24:06 Things better be different with meego Sep 20 13:24:06 psycho_oreos, I'm guessing you never had an 77, n800 or a n810 Sep 20 13:24:11 although RPMs scare me Sep 20 13:24:28 the n900 was such a big leap forward, I didn't believe it wasn't ready when I first saw it Sep 20 13:24:39 mgedmin, that's correct, I got n900 was because it was available from a regular mobile phone shop Sep 20 13:24:45 what scares me is the chasm like gap between anything being released Sep 20 13:24:48 * MohammadAG51 hates RPM Sep 20 13:24:56 +1 mohammandag51 Sep 20 13:25:09 Even PCLinuxOS (which uses apt to manage rpms) blows most of the time. Sep 20 13:25:16 +1 Sep 20 13:25:19 * psycho_oreos hates RPM but thinks we don't have a choice with meego, its either you go with the flow or you choose something else Sep 20 13:25:26 makes no odds to me as long as it works, not too bothered about the technical trade-offs Sep 20 13:25:44 Well, Sep 20 13:25:53 I am hoping with intel in on the whole meego things Sep 20 13:25:57 shit will actually get done right Sep 20 13:25:58 psycho_oreos: correct question has the answer! ...choose something else ;) Sep 20 13:26:33 well the underlying systems weren't too bad in Maemo, just some apps were really rather annoying Sep 20 13:26:50 anyone else here know of/lurk /r/n900? - http://www.reddit.com/r/n900/ Sep 20 13:27:38 lardman, I've started to seriously doubt the decision to use a swap partition on a phone Sep 20 13:27:52 mgedmin, to me, NIT without phone functionality wasn't of much use to myself. Granted NIT was targeting for those who wants a MID computer but for me I wanted one that not only has mini computer capabilities but also a phone, so its in a way squaring a fight against the likes of apple and their iphones. Alas I don't come to expect for whats to be on n900 apart from the fact that its a linux device with phone functionality and I was quite happy with that to Sep 20 13:27:53 the very least (something that isn't android) Sep 20 13:28:25 mgedmin: agreed, really forcing people to do transparent state saving and resuming would be better Sep 20 13:28:55 mgedmin, i dont mind the swap function for when its needed Sep 20 13:29:05 rmrfchik, there aren't many alternatives that I have looked at and liked apart from meego I'm afraid.. android is nice its own ways but its not suitable for the things I want to deal with (such as low level hardware access, the unlikely need to jailbreak, etc, etc) Sep 20 13:29:11 but it makes the ui unpredictably sluggish Sep 20 13:29:11 its premature usage thats annoying and apps expecting big desktop memory utility Sep 20 13:29:17 since core functions get swapped out Sep 20 13:29:22 yip Sep 20 13:29:31 lcuk: indeed Sep 20 13:29:41 psycho_oreos: if you will support nokia with money, they will continue make shit Sep 20 13:30:14 rmrfchik, then again to look at the alternatives, there aren't many to begin with apart from android and the usual catch 22 with them Sep 20 13:30:22 http://maemo.nokia.com/features/calendar/ how do I get different coloured items in my calendar? Sep 20 13:31:20 colors are by calendar, so just create new calendar and add items under that Sep 20 13:31:27 oh I see Sep 20 13:31:30 lardman, you can get them from synchroising from another device or program Sep 20 13:31:56 and birthdays are pink all the time Sep 20 13:32:50 lardman, holly has many birthdays a year. Sep 20 13:32:50 ok im coming here one last time before i sell my n810 for parts, i think i hosed the bootloader, can anyone help me to get it working again? i get no response whatsoever from the device Sep 20 13:32:55 your job as a man is not to question that Sep 20 13:33:14 lcuk: :) Sep 20 13:33:22 hey frenchy_ did you try a new battery? Sep 20 13:33:34 lcuk, yeah Sep 20 13:34:06 then thats unfortunate Sep 20 13:34:09 where abouts are you Sep 20 13:34:23 North Carolina USA Sep 20 13:34:39 how did you hose the bootloader? Sep 20 13:34:50 lardman, trying to install mamona Sep 20 13:35:02 dd'ing something you shouldn't have? Sep 20 13:35:20 lardman, i just used the flasher tool Sep 20 13:35:31 not that I've ever owned n810 but have you tried flashing with the original firmware to see if that works? Sep 20 13:35:33 hmm, the flasher shouldn't be able to do that Sep 20 13:35:57 lardman, well i cant get it to turn on, light up, charge or anything Sep 20 13:35:58 psycho_oreos: how to flash without NOLO?? Sep 20 13:36:31 psycho_oreos, i cant get it into usb mode to flash anything, computer wont recognize it Sep 20 13:36:43 frenchy_: get it to Nokia care center Sep 20 13:36:43 strange Sep 20 13:36:48 DocScrutinizer, well I dunno lol, see I think that's where its different between n8x0 and n900, NOLO isn't really easily accessible under n900, at least not with flasher tool I believe Sep 20 13:36:55 frenchy_, ahh Sep 20 13:37:23 psycho_oreos: how do you mean? They appear pretty similar Sep 20 13:38:40 eu Sep 20 13:38:43 lardman, like I said, I've never owned n8x0 series.. n900 is my first maemo device.. so for some weird reason NOLO was overwritten.. and if it was overwritten by flasher, maybe one final way is via JTAG (if that's possible with right tools/knowledge) Sep 20 13:38:43 hey Sep 20 13:38:50 DocScrutinizer, where would a nokia care center be, ive searched the net but cant seem to find any info Sep 20 13:38:52 ah sorry** Sep 20 13:39:32 frenchy_: either 'repair' takes 5min (if they don't need to send it elsewhere) and costs a few $, or you really got a broken hw and won't have to regret when you sell it for also a few $ Sep 20 13:39:52 psycho_oreos: afair the n8x0 also had the NOLO business, and when you flash it only flashes one part at a time, which should mean you can recover if the flashing is halted half way. Also the flasher is supposed to check the integrity of the parts to be flashed Sep 20 13:40:10 DocScrutinizer, no where can i find a nokia care center Sep 20 13:40:22 but yeah, JTAG is the fallback Sep 20 13:40:38 lardman, hmm ok Sep 20 13:40:47 lardman, how would i go about repairing it if flashing halted halfway Sep 20 13:40:48 frenchy_, put a request on talk.maemo.org and see if anyone is nearby, I know theres some n900 owners around Sep 20 13:41:06 frenchy_: it remain flashable afaiu Sep 20 13:41:10 http://pininthemap.com/maemo Sep 20 13:41:26 there are 2 sets of flashing code or something along those lines, each flashed one at a time Sep 20 13:41:26 lcuk, how would how owuld n900 owners be able to help Sep 20 13:41:28 frenchy_: I have no idea. Look, I'm a european resident Sep 20 13:41:58 frenchy_, i didnt say they would Sep 20 13:42:02 but they are maemo supporters Sep 20 13:42:09 and many have had earlier devices too Sep 20 13:42:15 frenchy_: how long ago did this happen? Are you sure the battery has enough juice to even start the flashing code? Sep 20 13:42:16 :) Sep 20 13:42:28 frenchy_: here I take the phonebook, look for "phoneshops" and there for one that has "nokia" in the name Sep 20 13:42:36 there are several in every town Sep 20 13:43:35 hello Sep 20 13:43:41 lardman, the battery was full when i did it, when i plug it in the charge icon doesnt even show up Sep 20 13:44:04 does anyone know if there is a successor for the n900 ? Sep 20 13:44:19 frenchy_: was this quite recent though? Sep 20 13:44:38 lardman, yeah like a week ago Sep 20 13:44:41 ok fine Sep 20 13:44:49 erez_, there will be, its not out yet Sep 20 13:45:05 just that if the battery gets too low it can't start the kernel/flashing code and it also can't charge the battery Sep 20 13:45:33 frenchy_: have you tried flashing it again, even though nothing shows up on the screen? Sep 20 13:45:48 lardman, why wouldnt it charge the battery charge, isnt it supposed to do that when it gets low Sep 20 13:46:01 lardman, yes ive tried flashing, computer doesnt recognize it Sep 20 13:46:09 the kernel must be running to charge the battery, so if it's too low, no charging Sep 20 13:46:13 frenchy_: N<900 has sw controlled charging Sep 20 13:47:12 frenchy_: what method did you use to try to start the flashing? Pull battery, wait 10, re-insert battery, plug usb, plug power cord? Sep 20 13:47:32 Also, are you using Linux or Windows here? Sep 20 13:47:41 anyway, iirc you tested with fresh battery, so all you can do is: take it to Nokia care, or DIY a jig to contact the debug test points under battery, and JTAG flash yourself Sep 20 13:48:02 lardman, ive tried everything, linux and windows, ive tried the cold flash option with -S usb but ive only seen info about that working on n900 Sep 20 13:48:28 frenchy_: how -exactly- did you destroy it? Sep 20 13:48:30 frenchy_: ok, so go with DocScrutinizer's suggestion Sep 20 13:48:40 frenchy_: http://www.nokiausa.com/get-support-and-software/repair-and-recycle/repair/repair-locator Sep 20 13:49:00 darn, how hard can it be to go to nokiausa.com and find certified shops? Sep 20 13:49:12 lardman: hehe, exactly Sep 20 13:52:24 Stskeeps: out of interest, do you know what happens when e.g. the bootloader/flashing code1/flashing code 2 gets corrupted? Sep 20 13:52:31 have to cold flash Sep 20 13:52:36 always? Sep 20 13:52:39 afaik Sep 20 13:52:42 ok Sep 20 13:52:45 cold flash can be over usb on n900 Sep 20 13:52:47 afaik Sep 20 13:53:07 I thought the N8x0 were equally robust, but can't remember Sep 20 13:53:10 DocScrutinizer: there aren't any Sep 20 13:53:31 Nokia is fail in the US Sep 20 13:53:31 I was just wondering if there would be any visual indications, or it would just look dead until you do the right thing Sep 20 13:53:39 hey GAN800 Sep 20 13:53:54 Partially because of their godawful support chain here Sep 20 13:53:54 Howdy Sep 20 13:55:42 psyco_oreos, is there a schedule ? i want to buy a new open phone, just wanted to know if to buy an n900, or wait for the new one Sep 20 13:56:02 GAN800: think the webpage lardman posted above should spit out some shipping address at *very* least Sep 20 13:56:35 erez_: there is no schedule Sep 20 13:56:59 the link lardman posted eventually brings you to a form you fill out and then you can ship it to nokia but doesnt seem to give any info on how much it will cost for anything Sep 20 13:57:21 SpeedEvil, that's not true. I'm sure Nokia has a schedule for the next release. There just isn't any publicly available schedule Sep 20 13:57:36 frenchy_: that's normal Sep 20 13:57:50 ok, thanks Sep 20 13:57:58 frenchy_: I guess you'll get some inspection fee, then a phone call do tell them whether or not to proceed Sep 20 13:58:02 They'll quote you when they look at it Sep 20 13:58:14 GAN800: I know USA is completely fsckdup in many respects, regarding customer relationships - I mean where else can you sue microwave manuf for not warning to not dry the cat inside the oven - but I bet Nokia has some central service center in USA Sep 20 13:58:18 Hopefully it's under warranty though Sep 20 13:58:37 lol Sep 20 13:58:40 DocScrutinizer: They do Sep 20 13:58:41 * SpeedEvil stabs Termana. Sep 20 13:58:47 But those suck too Sep 20 13:58:47 * Termana dies Sep 20 13:59:32 DocScrutinizer: that's not quite true. Sep 20 13:59:40 I wonder when lcuk's going to get back with my beer....? Sep 20 13:59:43 DocScrutinizer: you can safely use conventional oven mode to dry the cat. Sep 20 14:00:30 lol Sep 20 14:00:43 * Termana puts his cat far away from SpeedEvil Sep 20 14:02:53 I hope Nokia's new execs manage to crack the US market Sep 20 14:03:19 I just hope they get some new hw out soon Sep 20 14:03:35 OPK clearly had no idea what he was about Sep 20 14:03:36 * DocScrutinizer envisions a naked LOLCAT saying "betrr zat then microwavers" Sep 20 14:03:42 I think the first reaction of any exec looking at how the US market works is *facepalm* Sep 20 14:04:04 lardman, i started thinking about some code and forgot all about beer Sep 20 14:04:09 lol Sep 20 14:04:42 * SpeedEvil ponders. Sep 20 14:04:53 us markets seem to depend on how much hitlerware the carriers can force on consumers?:) Sep 20 14:04:54 There is - relatively - little I'd want to change about the hardware. Sep 20 14:04:57 i did 90degree rotation of bitmaps recently, i want to make that arbritary angle Sep 20 14:05:06 I want the area round the screen to be touch sensitive. Sep 20 14:05:13 SpeedEvil, it is Sep 20 14:05:14 As a seperate 'scroll' area. Sep 20 14:05:22 lcuk: only +5 pixels or so Sep 20 14:05:26 lcuk: not all the way out Sep 20 14:05:29 jaska, Godwin's law Sep 20 14:05:30 SpeedEvil, I mean to knocks and bangs Sep 20 14:05:34 ah Sep 20 14:05:35 SpeedEvil: bit thinner would be good, but yes, I actually want new sw, but I guess we won't really see that until some hw appears Sep 20 14:05:37 This conversation is over Sep 20 14:05:48 lcuk: some 3mm Sep 20 14:06:01 termana: i do not subscribe to that interpretation of godwins law. Sep 20 14:06:02 lcuk: yuk, interpolation Sep 20 14:06:04 SpeedEvil, i was talking with pupnik Sep 20 14:06:13 the bexel being sensitive would be awesome Sep 20 14:06:16 I have maybe a 5mm depth case Sep 20 14:06:18 lcuk: yeah Sep 20 14:06:29 lardman, thats not the hard part Sep 20 14:06:30 actual touch sensitive area is +3mm to all 4 directions of screen Sep 20 14:06:49 its juggling all the variables and remembering which group relate to which Sep 20 14:06:59 SpeedEvil, I wonder if this big "inactive" touch are was needed to get consistent sensitivty on the viewable area.. Sep 20 14:07:03 and let's not forget making it run quickly too ;) Sep 20 14:07:20 ShadowJK, its just a calibration thing Sep 20 14:07:34 the touch digitiser on 810 was similar Sep 20 14:07:53 it just sticks over the top and has higher resolution, its great Sep 20 14:08:12 I wonder why the software doesn't let you calibrate that :/ Sep 20 14:08:29 i wonder if you could get a resitive overlay for iphone or ipad Sep 20 14:08:42 ShadowJK, it doesnt need to? Sep 20 14:08:50 you get pixels 0 to 799 or whatever Sep 20 14:08:59 x is doing its job Sep 20 14:09:05 and if you need the raw ones you can get them Sep 20 14:09:39 ShadowJK: a reasonable assumption (consistency) Sep 20 14:10:14 lcuk: nope you can't Sep 20 14:10:20 lcuk, I mean the black hole issue of N8x0 isn't present on my n900? Sep 20 14:11:18 like, 3mm from edges on my n800 is about as sensitive as n900 screen Sep 20 14:11:52 but middle of screen on my n800 shows 0 response to thumb touches Sep 20 14:12:09 ShadowJK, thats age Sep 20 14:12:10 duh Sep 20 14:12:24 that's bad Sep 20 14:12:32 its the same on mine DocScrutinizer Sep 20 14:12:41 in the area i draw on most Sep 20 14:12:49 its not sensitive to finger Sep 20 14:12:53 what exactly is aging there, physically? Sep 20 14:12:55 well my N900 is now about twice as old as my N810 was when I first noticed it :) Sep 20 14:12:55 but still works perfectly with stylus Sep 20 14:13:11 the answer is probably no to this but is it possible to boot from a memory card on the n810 if the internal bootloader is gone Sep 20 14:13:12 DocScrutinizer, the sandwich layers are closer i am betting Sep 20 14:13:18 like an old sofa Sep 20 14:13:25 conductive resistive coating of the plastic planes wearing? Sep 20 14:13:35 frenchy_, no Sep 20 14:13:42 god I was tmobile would roll out hspa+ in chicago already Sep 20 14:13:49 downloading 150megs over 3g blows Sep 20 14:13:50 frenchy_, you want signs of life for anything Sep 20 14:14:06 frenchy_: but unless you dd'd the partition holding the bootloader, etc., you should really be able to flash somehow still Sep 20 14:14:42 * ShadowJK is downloading a live iso over HSDPA non-plus Sep 20 14:14:42 hmm, no. If it works with stylus, it more sounds like non-conductive 'dirt' coating building up on top of the resistive conductive layer Sep 20 14:15:10 maybe oxidation Sep 20 14:15:30 lardman, any idea how? Sep 20 14:15:47 or oil separator goin resin Sep 20 14:15:58 well it only took like 10 years for nokia to solve the "wtf there's dist INSIDE the display?" experience :) Sep 20 14:16:07 firt* Sep 20 14:16:12 dirt even Sep 20 14:16:42 lcuk: does the sensitivity change with temperature? Sep 20 14:16:57 I.E on high temp it gets better? Sep 20 14:17:14 ShadowJK: Nokia had a lot of goodwill in the US which they squandered away with unimaginably bad customer support, delayed or nonexistant hardware releases, even more delayed software releases, and generally treating the US consumer like crap Sep 20 14:17:15 frenchy_: as Stskeeps said, how exactly did you break it? Sep 20 14:17:37 lardman, trying to flash mamono on it, i must have disconnected it too early Sep 20 14:17:48 so not a power out? Sep 20 14:18:01 Windows or Linux flasher? Sep 20 14:18:20 Also, what were you flashing, kernel + rootfs alone I guess? Sep 20 14:18:28 Innovartion, advertisint, synched releases and a good support chain fix it Sep 20 14:18:50 lardman, when i did it it was linux Sep 20 14:19:08 GAN800: well the hw & sw delays have also not gone down so well over here Sep 20 14:19:23 frenchy_: ok, and which files were you flashing? Sep 20 14:19:33 lardman, i think i created an image combining the mamona rootfs with the maemo image to get proprietary aspects working Sep 20 14:20:01 but I guess that was a rootfs, as iirc it's still not possible to generate a FIASCO image is it Sep 20 14:20:33 I'm trying to establish whether you flashed the bootloader, flashers, etc., or if this stems from just flashing the kernel and rootfs Sep 20 14:20:45 lardman, yeah i think the process they get youdo to creates a FIASCO image combining the 2 Sep 20 14:21:06 frenchy_: do you have an URL? Sep 20 14:22:00 http://dev.openbossa.org/trac/mamona/wiki/Releases/0.2/RunningMamona Sep 20 14:22:52 there is a recover broken device section but it seems they were still able to see some life from the device when getting it fixed Sep 20 14:23:18 frenchy_: ok, so, what happens if you take a FIASCO image and simply flasher -F fiasco-filename -f -R Sep 20 14:23:21 ? Sep 20 14:23:37 on the N900? nothing Sep 20 14:24:07 Stskeeps, nothing, it wont power on to where i can put it in USB mode Sep 20 14:24:12 if that fails, I'd look at the fiasco image you flashed (extract the contents and compare to the expected contents) Sep 20 14:24:21 frenchy_: ah Sep 20 14:24:27 :( Sep 20 14:24:31 frenchy_: did you see my instructions earlier? Sep 20 14:24:47 lardman, i dont believe so, what did you say Sep 20 14:24:48 then try to pop out the batt, connect usb, run flasher, then connect the batt Sep 20 14:25:06 pull battery, put it back, plug in the usb, then apply external power - it will then boot to flashing mode, if possible Sep 20 14:25:19 no need to fiddle with keypresses, etc Sep 20 14:25:31 frenchy_: does the NOKIA logo show? Sep 20 14:25:41 Stskeeps: nothing afaiu Sep 20 14:25:43 lardman, i will give it a try, but im pretty sure all the things ive done ive done that at least once lol Sep 20 14:25:48 :) Sep 20 14:25:49 Stskeeps, no no nokia lofo Sep 20 14:26:25 frenchy_: it might simply be that your battery is depleted Sep 20 14:26:37 or NOLO's fucked Sep 20 14:26:40 frenchy_: did you check the md5 on your original FIASCO image? Sep 20 14:26:46 Stskeeps, battery was at full charge when i hosed it, and have since then tested it with a multimeter Sep 20 14:27:04 lardman, i dont have the mamona image anymore Sep 20 14:27:09 oh Sep 20 14:27:36 I wonder if 0xFFFF checks the contents for corruption Sep 20 14:27:53 DocScrutinizer, its a question involving charges, yes it will change with temperature Sep 20 14:28:00 so I guess the device doesn't vibrate neither on power up attempts? Sep 20 14:28:03 i recall people having failure only occuring once device warmed up Sep 20 14:28:17 satmd: it's not an N900 Sep 20 14:28:23 oh :( Sep 20 14:29:19 lardman, your instructions did not work Sep 20 14:29:24 ok Sep 20 14:31:57 it's dead, Jim! Let's take it to Nokia care center Sep 20 14:32:48 who's Jim :P Sep 20 14:33:59 No, Bones, you'll try to reanimate it with your phaser! Sep 20 14:34:08 lardman: No, but releasing the US 5800 six months after the rest of the world and taking longer than that with it's software doesn't exactly inspire loyalty Sep 20 14:34:29 GAN800: Sep 20 14:34:37 GAN800: oops, I meant to say "yep" Sep 20 14:35:02 frenchy_: am reading not so great things about checksuming in FIASCO images in the source for 0xFFFF Sep 20 14:36:30 anyway, if you don't have the original files, it's not going to be possible to track down which bit was corrupt Sep 20 14:36:33 send it off Sep 20 14:36:56 lardman: if 0xFFFF for any reason touched the wrong partition then it's quite irrelevant if the checksum is correct. If it didn't then wtf is use for the rootfs checksum here Sep 20 14:37:29 it won't be the rootfs, but if the original FIASCO was corrupt, then the bootloader, etc., may be corrupt Sep 20 14:37:59 the other thing I seem to remember was that a too-large kernel could be flashed, not sure what that then overwrites mind you Sep 20 14:38:20 I also can't find the source for 0.0.4 of 0xFFFF Sep 20 14:38:23 it probably ruined flash on a low level, thus not caring at all about separate partitions. So either NOLO or cal or both is defect Sep 20 14:39:25 lardman: (too large) quite possible, writing beyond end of partiton Sep 20 14:39:51 but iirc that was recoverable by reflashing Sep 20 14:40:18 I bet NOLO doesn't check for end-of-partition for every single byte it receives and flashes to NAND Sep 20 14:41:32 if you know about numbering aka sequence of partitions in NNAD, then you probably could figure what's going to happen when you flash a too large image Sep 20 14:41:32 it does check for EOF though Sep 20 14:41:54 MohammadAG51: fine. And who's sending that EOF? Sep 20 14:42:02 and when? Sep 20 14:42:22 well, flash a broken rootfs image, NOLO errors out, not flasher Sep 20 14:43:28 inspecting the 0xFFFF code would give the partition order Sep 20 14:43:34 whatever. Use your phaser, Bones! No, you have to use higher power level... Sep 20 14:44:00 partition order? Sep 20 14:44:19 you're not going to reflash *anything* on a device that simply doesn't come up Sep 20 14:44:39 ergo: useless effort Sep 20 14:45:16 it would be interesting to know what's wrong though ;) Sep 20 14:45:22 sure Sep 20 14:45:38 but as you say, ultimately pointless Sep 20 14:45:55 but I bet frenchy isn't that much interested Sep 20 14:46:31 (proof: he left) Sep 20 14:46:47 oh dear Sep 20 14:47:31 h deer Sep 20 14:47:41 :-P Sep 20 14:47:41 Pffffft Sep 20 14:47:58 Colloquy's idle timeout is 10 minutes Sep 20 14:48:08 Then it kills your connection Sep 20 14:48:18 uh wut? Sep 20 14:48:49 why oh why Sep 20 14:49:02 iPhone IRC Sep 20 14:49:14 pffft Sep 20 14:49:19 you can't have xchat on iOS :P Sep 20 14:49:56 coloquy is killing connections, iOS is killing your sanity Sep 20 14:50:17 Steve Jobs getting revenge Sep 20 14:50:22 sorry, i went too far Sep 20 14:55:31 'estimated update time: 10 hours, 5 minutes' Sep 20 14:55:35 sorry Sep 20 14:56:12 yeah, I'm too Sep 20 14:59:00 'lo qole Sep 20 15:00:01 hi qole Sep 20 15:00:27 help ... i m looking for dbus expert for a little help on my khweeteur notification Sep 20 15:00:49 the dbus-callback-default doesn't seems to be called Sep 20 15:00:57 and i didn't understand why Sep 20 15:01:22 source is here : http://gitorious.org/khweeteur/khweeteur/blobs/master/khweeteur/__init__.py Sep 20 15:29:53 hi anyone hit bug with no wifi networks to connect to? I am sure there are because iwlist shows there are Sep 20 15:31:34 sobczyk: hidden WAP's ? Sep 20 15:32:06 no, in place I am in there are plenty of AP Sep 20 15:33:32 * RST38h moos Sep 20 15:33:54 I think I'll need to troubleshoot this... Sep 20 15:40:47 cu later chaps Sep 20 15:56:05 Doc: what's my next number? :) Sep 20 16:20:10 :(, has anyone helpfully compiled my list? I wouldn't want to repeat myself :o Sep 20 16:28:36 oi timeless_pidgin you couldv prefixes/suffixed your list with a hashtag or something Sep 20 16:28:41 then we couldv grepped the logs Sep 20 16:29:01 currently mgedmin's server is stressing at a search for "timeless ." Sep 20 16:29:09 since you prefixed all of the with a number and a dot Sep 20 16:29:13 the search script is incredibly dumb Sep 20 16:29:18 it does no regexps Sep 20 16:29:25 but it reads all 700 megs from disk every time Sep 20 16:30:26 :$ indeed mgedmin hence me trying to be light with it lol Sep 20 16:30:40 but it wont find a search with a . Sep 20 16:30:47 it does find similar with ) Sep 20 16:31:38 GAN900: i thought Colloquy on iOS4 had true-ish backgrounding Sep 20 16:32:11 lcuk, nothing special about dots there Sep 20 16:32:21 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mgedmin/irclog2html/trunk/annotate/head:/src/irclog2html/irclogsearch.py#L138 Sep 20 16:32:59 mgedmin, ahh so its only pulling up specific string "timeless"+space+"." Sep 20 16:33:03 yep Sep 20 16:33:54 that would explain it then, bah Sep 20 16:34:04 no timeless_pidgin theres no collated version :P Sep 20 16:35:04 mgedmin, i have a similar silly search like that on windows Sep 20 16:35:10 for dumpster diving my code Sep 20 16:35:25 but it breaks each phrase supplied into words Sep 20 16:35:43 and checks against them Sep 20 16:37:28 hi :) Sep 20 16:38:20 Oops :( Sep 20 16:39:49 perl -ne 'next unless m!nick[^>]*.timeless.*?">(.*?)!; print "$1\n"' 14 Sep 20 16:40:02 Seems to do something vaguely useful Sep 20 16:40:42 perl -ne 'next unless m!nick[^>]*.timeless.*?">(\d+\..*?)!; print "$1\n"' 14 Sep 20 16:40:45 Is almost ok Sep 20 16:42:02 Looks like i had two 4s Sep 20 16:43:51 http://konigsberg.mozilla.org/maemo.txt is my current poor man's extract Sep 20 16:44:33 timeless_pidgin: are there any certain gcc flags that mozilla is typically not working together with? Sep 20 16:44:45 Fastmath? Sep 20 16:44:58 Enable broken floating point Sep 20 16:45:06 :nod: not there at least Sep 20 16:45:12 That's the first that comes to mind anyway Sep 20 16:45:25 What-cha got? Sep 20 16:45:47 well, we have a fennec-qt that crashes on ARM, so that's fun.. Sep 20 16:45:59 like, on startup Sep 20 16:47:08 Stack? Sep 20 16:47:16 And which flags are you using? Sep 20 16:47:39 Oh wait Sep 20 16:47:49 Are you using a broken ver of gcc? Sep 20 16:47:55 4.5 counts Sep 20 16:47:57 gcc4.5, does it qualify? Sep 20 16:47:57 :P Sep 20 16:48:01 Ayup Sep 20 16:48:09 got any gcc bugs i can refer to? Sep 20 16:48:32 The idiots shipped a compiler that doesn't support their *own* libffi or whatever it was Sep 20 16:48:46 crashes in javascript stuff i think Sep 20 16:48:52 works on x86 though Sep 20 16:49:01 It should be in the logs for #meego when i explained that gcc 4.5 is NOT OK Sep 20 16:49:18 * Noobmonk3y waves Sep 20 16:49:22 I r Need Geek! Sep 20 16:49:31 And that choosing a compiler w/o making sure it isn't horribly broken is downright stupid Sep 20 16:49:43 Can someone clever please tell me a VNC viewer (for a pc) that will allow me to screenshot the view easily? Sep 20 16:49:48 timeless_pidgin: after we had dbus crashing cos of a gcc bug, i pretty much agree Sep 20 16:49:49 :P Sep 20 16:50:22 http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=40701 might be it Sep 20 16:50:23 Bug 40701: was not found. Sep 20 16:50:31 * Stskeeps looks Sep 20 16:50:46 Nope Sep 20 16:53:02 There was probably a heads-up in mozilla.dev. Something about not updating to 4.5.. Still looking Sep 20 16:53:24 lcuk, I need your brains! :P Sep 20 16:53:38 Hi Sep 20 16:53:42 hi johnsq Sep 20 16:56:12 Noobmonk3y: tightvnc should do it... i think :P Sep 20 16:56:35 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594611 Sep 20 16:56:36 Bug 594611: was not found. Sep 20 16:56:37 yeah using it, so simple screenshot, want to do loads on the n900, but screenshotting and pasting, saving is effort lol Sep 20 16:56:41 cheers though frals Sep 20 16:57:35 That's http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=45623 Sep 20 16:57:36 Bug 45623: was not found. Sep 20 17:00:43 anyone had a problem with the wireless network picker? It stopped work for me, if it shows up,there are no networks visible (iwlist works fine) and sometimes it even does not show up Sep 20 17:01:20 sorry sob, seems to work ok for me, but i dont swap w networks all that often Sep 20 17:06:05 ... There are a couple of ways to break the network picker Sep 20 17:06:31 One is to give bad credentials for a wpa2 advanced network (where you need to present a certificate ) Sep 20 17:06:47 lol, it started to work, automagically, though I removed libicd-network-usb along with it's gconf keys Sep 20 17:06:50 oh? Sep 20 17:07:00 timeless_pidgin: details on that one? how does it break? Sep 20 17:07:01 If your cert is password protected and you give the wrong password and cancel Sep 20 17:07:18 You're hosed until you reboot. Sep 20 17:07:28 mhm, slightly different from my "notcurrently valid" Sep 20 17:07:36 +%20 Sep 20 17:07:43 Lesson: don't give the wrong password, or don't password protect your certificate Sep 20 17:08:13 But basically iiuc what happens is that a daemon croaks and nothing respawns it Sep 20 17:08:25 And the ui shows its list of nothing Sep 20 17:08:39 I could be wrong, i'm just a user/victim Sep 20 17:10:40 25. If you have both - and _ on a hardware keyboard, ensure they're adjacent so that they can be used together to visually distinguish each other... Or provide a box view for _ so that it's clear on its own.... Sep 20 17:11:40 26. The call log should be accessible while a call is in progress. E.g. While talking to your manager you might want to say "yes, i just spoke to the client 13 minutes ago" (grr) Sep 20 17:11:55 That one constantly bites me :( Sep 20 17:15:25 25 \o/ Sep 20 17:23:35 frals: Did you vote for the right right party? Sep 20 17:23:53 * Jaffa noted last week when his Swedish colleagues didn't say "far right" but "right right". That amused me. Sep 20 17:23:54 Did i miss a party? Sep 20 17:24:04 timeless_pidgin: Swedish election. Sep 20 17:24:12 timeless_pidgin: Doesn't sound like a fun party to me. Sep 20 17:24:36 There's probably a right right right party, right? Sep 20 17:24:37 * MohammadAG51 voted for bacon Sep 20 17:25:02 Does that make it a left? Sep 20 17:25:08 Jaffa: heh, no.. "right right" sounds very weird translated to swedish so no idea how they came up with that Sep 20 17:25:22 (two wrongs don't make a left, but three rights do!) Sep 20 17:25:26 Err Sep 20 17:25:43 (two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!) Sep 20 17:27:06 Jaffa ever seen: Sep 20 17:27:22 BACON! Sep 20 17:27:28 Browser connection: Learn more ( ) Always use https (*) Don't always use https Sep 20 17:28:16 timeless_pidgin: gmail, isn't it? Sep 20 17:28:39 it's phrased poorly Sep 20 17:28:49 it should be "require HTTPS"/"don't require HTTPS" Sep 20 17:29:58 Ehm Sep 20 17:29:58 Pidgin supports dragging tabs out to make new windows on maemo :-! Sep 20 17:29:58 Yes Sep 20 17:30:17 The wording is unusual but technically correct Sep 20 17:30:18 bah Sep 20 17:30:33 Https is always used for log-in Sep 20 17:30:55 "force https" "don't force https" Sep 20 17:31:08 Thus "https support is required in all clients" Sep 20 17:31:15 Just not "always" ... Sep 20 17:32:45 Grr, i cannot break the keyboard completion thing right now... Sep 20 17:39:40 hmm I can't seem to connect to my wlan. Is there a way to check the wifi thing somehow from xterm and see what the problem is? Sep 20 17:39:48 on n900 that is Sep 20 17:42:05 iwlist scan Sep 20 17:42:29 should show available networks Sep 20 17:47:05 dammit, recaller is notifying me about some recording in progress since 19:44:00 (which happens to be since midnight local time), and I can't for the life of me not figure what it's recording or how to stop that nonsense. No files growing in default storing destination folder... >:-( Sep 20 17:48:08 and I can't even spot the process in ps Sep 20 17:48:16 reboot? Sep 20 17:48:55 is this windoze? Sep 20 17:48:55 Docscrutinizer, my recaller has continued a recording after a call finished a couple of times... I didn't investigate it, I just rebooted IIRC Sep 20 17:49:43 DocScrutinizer: reboot Sep 20 17:49:59 DocScrutinizer: to be honest.. i even think its worse than windows. i must reboot every here and then. never had an uptime of more than 4 days Sep 20 17:50:44 haha Sep 20 17:50:47 btw, IIRC the ongoing recording happens in another directory and it is moved afterwards Sep 20 17:50:56 you don't have to reboot windows Sep 20 17:51:08 it does a fine job rebooting on its own Sep 20 17:51:20 hehe Sep 20 17:51:27 well :) Sep 20 17:51:35 sobczyk, it finds the network fine. It just doesn't connect. Sep 20 17:51:45 BSOD is a feature then ? Sep 20 17:52:02 and gives the informative message "Unable to connect to the internet, try again?" Sep 20 17:52:22 E0x, yeah, like cron jobs, with reboot on by default Sep 20 17:52:34 now everything have sense Sep 20 17:54:04 my uptim usually exceeds 20d until reboot for update or other reason Sep 20 17:55:10 hi all! Sep 20 17:55:12 nice, advertising HD examples on an SD channel Sep 20 17:55:38 or plastic theme change ( i really hate that and was the reason of uninstall it ) Sep 20 17:55:39 I have uptime of 12996 days. Sep 20 17:56:08 3 day here Sep 20 17:56:10 its nearly my 13th century day :D Sep 20 17:56:27 happy birthday! Sep 20 17:56:29 heh Sep 20 17:56:45 err happy power-up Sep 20 17:56:52 or power-on Sep 20 17:57:30 LOL lcuk Sep 20 17:57:46 * MohammadAG51 reboots lcuk Sep 20 17:57:52 nooooooooooooo Sep 20 17:57:59 tomorrow i wouldv broken my uptime record Sep 20 17:58:08 hmm Sep 20 17:58:13 why don't we have kernel panics Sep 20 17:58:32 eye keeps blinking till someone kicks you in the nuts Sep 20 17:58:38 You want panics? Sep 20 17:58:53 running maemo with all the closed source is more scary , that is why not kernel panic it Sep 20 17:58:56 :P Sep 20 17:59:09 grr Sep 20 18:00:47 * MohammadAG51 wonders what removing preinit does :p Sep 20 18:00:57 no boot till you flash ofc Sep 20 18:01:00 releases PR1.3 Sep 20 18:01:11 Hrm, i think pidgin picked black on black for someone Sep 20 18:01:46 hello Sep 20 18:01:52 someone who likes ctrl+a'ing logs Sep 20 18:01:52 any news on pr 1.3 for n900? Sep 20 18:02:53 vnepo: no such thing Sep 20 18:03:02 yeah, it exists Sep 20 18:03:11 stfu it exists :P Sep 20 18:03:20 just remove preinit (talk about good timing) Sep 20 18:03:22 lol Sep 20 18:03:22 no, that's PR1.4 Sep 20 18:03:23 I've seen it Sep 20 18:03:30 where? Sep 20 18:03:33 they skipped 1.3 Sep 20 18:03:39 really? Sep 20 18:03:41 why? Sep 20 18:03:41 just to make it harder for idiots to find Sep 20 18:03:53 LOL Sep 20 18:04:11 hmmm Sep 20 18:08:16 hmpf. telepathy+talk.google.com has been disconnecting randomly here for an entire week already Sep 20 18:09:09 same on empathy on my pc Sep 20 18:09:20 and on my N900 :P Sep 20 18:11:23 moo javispedro Sep 20 18:11:38 mooo Sep 20 18:12:33 ~pr1.3 Sep 20 18:12:34 [pr1.3] a ban'able subject now..... Sep 20 18:12:50 * DocScrutinizer kickbans javispedro Sep 20 18:12:59 ~pr1.4 Sep 20 18:13:00 moo Sep 20 18:13:34 DocScrutinizer: i'm pretty sure you have to use /kick and /ban Sep 20 18:13:37 ~pr1.2 Sep 20 18:13:37 extra, extra, read all about it, pr1.2 is available since early Tuesday morning. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/ -- see ~flashing for how to update Sep 20 18:13:38 * javispedro wonders if DocScrutinizer ever dropped pr1.2 from the bannable subjects list Sep 20 18:13:38 as two separate commands Sep 20 18:13:41 grr. where is syslog on this thing? Sep 20 18:14:00 there you go, yet another talk.google.com disconnection. Sep 20 18:14:03 apt-get install sysklogd Sep 20 18:14:23 * MohammadAG51 hates how telepathy rapes the cpu Sep 20 18:14:25 javispedro, pr1.2 brought us pics from the community written on boobs i believe Sep 20 18:15:04 MohammadAG51, whats your telepathy beef? and have you got specific situations? Sep 20 18:15:09 oh, I didn't know! ;P Sep 20 18:15:14 kerio: my clients know to kickban Sep 20 18:15:25 i could find them, they were amusing Sep 20 18:15:32 lcuk, multiple disconnects cause a huge cpu load Sep 20 18:15:45 telepathy loads the cpu while signing in Sep 20 18:16:00 and you know specifically its telepathy how Sep 20 18:16:08 some plugins insist on signing in instead of giving up, ovi is one Sep 20 18:16:27 Unable to connect to one or more accounts is one way Sep 20 18:16:36 then the green ball flashes Sep 20 18:16:47 then you die. Sep 20 18:16:51 and cpu load rises Sep 20 18:17:02 ok MohammadAG51 so its when you have specific additional accounts? Sep 20 18:17:59 27. When implementing "forward" in an email client, do not both add an inline header and insert quotation marks. If someone wanted to use quotation marks, they'd hit reply (modest=stupid) Sep 20 18:18:15 text chat on skype (skyhost) also rapes it Sep 20 18:18:21 javispedro, NSFW POTENTIALLY DO NOT CLICK IF PEOPLE WEARING BRAS IS NOT WANTED http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1699/releasep.jpg Sep 20 18:19:01 you mention nsfw and crashanddie pops in Sep 20 18:19:05 yay boobs Sep 20 18:19:22 i wonder if something nsfw is safe for uni Sep 20 18:19:26 lcuk, wearning or not wearing? Sep 20 18:19:38 hello Sep 20 18:19:44 quick question Sep 20 18:20:08 28. Keyboard completion of words (e.g. Maemo) compose with one punctuation mark (e.g. ' " .) But should compose with multiple : wrong: 'maemo. ..', "Maemo' s", ' "maemo. " ' Sep 20 18:20:32 how do i set my N900 to use the DNS the NAT provides instead of openDNS it is using right now for some resason? Sep 20 18:20:43 liqbase.net/thread.42285.pg001.to.689.imagelist_proc.html Sep 20 18:20:51 javispedro, err, uni? Sep 20 18:20:58 the WHOLE mammoth pr1.2 chuck norris thread Sep 20 18:21:04 every image identified in it Sep 20 18:21:06 on one page Sep 20 18:21:10 lol Sep 20 18:21:30 it is more of a stress test than timeless_pidgin's stress page Sep 20 18:21:55 Lcuk: wow Sep 20 18:21:59 thank god I never read that thread Sep 20 18:22:03 MohammadAG51: university Sep 20 18:22:49 timeless_pidgin, i want that sort of image view available by default for threads Sep 20 18:22:57 and to click the image and go back into the thread :$ Sep 20 18:23:05 thanks MohammadAG51. Sep 20 18:23:06 yes yes, I know, i thought you were +30 or something :P Sep 20 18:23:46 frals, theres an "i <3 trout" pic in there :P Sep 20 18:24:43 Ok this wlan doesn't work. It does "send discover", "sending select for 192.168.0.7...", "received DHCP NAK", and then it goes back to "send discover"... Sep 20 18:24:48 any thoughts? Sep 20 18:26:16 is it my wlan or my n900 i wonder. Sep 20 18:26:51 or both Sep 20 18:26:59 doooh! Found my problem I think. My wii is hogging the ip that is reserved for my n900 Sep 20 18:27:01 stupid wii. Sep 20 18:30:29 mece hmm? i forgot what i said xD Sep 20 18:31:17 MohammadAG51 you said apt-get install sysklogd Sep 20 18:31:52 The OtterBox case is nice. Sep 20 18:32:06 kerio-ish. Sep 20 18:32:17 huh? Sep 20 18:32:20 kerio, except it kills itself if you don't use it once every 10 minutes. Sep 20 18:32:21 what did i do now? Sep 20 18:32:22 Colloquy Sep 20 18:32:33 *kerio, -ish Sep 20 18:32:54 what does that have to do with me? :o Sep 20 18:33:04 kerio, didn't you highlight me about it earlier? Sep 20 18:33:12 i really did not Sep 20 18:33:43 Did too, liar. Sep 20 18:33:49 I see it in the backscroll. Sep 20 18:45:24 hm, seems pc-conectivity manager has thing for OpenDNS..... Sep 20 18:49:01 moin Sep 20 18:50:02 anyway, 8mve figured what file to edit, cya Sep 20 19:03:59 GeneralAntilles: random comment from lurker: agree that OtterBox case is nice (just got one). Okay, fading into background again. :) Sep 20 19:14:44 Muahaha Sep 20 19:27:25 ...apparently convinced that the opossums would eat all of the rats in the borough and then conveniently die of starvation... Sep 20 19:27:50 ...opossums have not only failed to eliminate the rat epidemic from New York City, but they have thrived, turning into a sharp-toothed, foul-odored epidemic of their own... Sep 20 19:29:20 oh dear... Sep 20 19:32:35 seriously, did they really do that mistake in the 21th century? Sep 20 19:33:18 * nox- only knows that oz ppl have possums, maybe they should have asked there first :) Sep 20 19:33:24 s/have/hate/ Sep 20 19:33:36 Heh Sep 20 19:33:47 time for the gorillas... Sep 20 19:34:01 hey nox- :) Sep 20 19:34:23 * wmarone punts modest, why are you not checking every 5 minutes for messages like you should be?! Sep 20 19:34:56 moin steinex Sep 20 19:34:58 :) Sep 20 19:38:18 * RST38h thinks it is time to introduce NYC to larger wildlife Sep 20 19:40:48 There's nothing wrong with opossums Sep 20 19:41:19 The America's only marsupial gets a bad rap Sep 20 19:41:48 They don't even carry rabies Sep 20 19:48:28 They are cute too Sep 20 19:49:54 * RST38h amusedly watches the flamewar started by Arkenoi, with participation by some Nokia PR girl Sep 20 19:50:05 what flamewar? Sep 20 19:50:06 :P Sep 20 19:50:41 Stskeeps: there is a video of Nokia employee showing off N8 at the Nokia World, with the poor device first stuttering and then hanging, on camera Sep 20 19:51:14 RST38h, she then went to do the same thing on the X3 touch and type, and it kept up perfectly Sep 20 19:51:20 shes an SMS girlie Sep 20 19:51:22 Stskeeps: Arkenoi posted it to his blog with the comment along the lines of "Just kill it already!" Sep 20 19:51:58 lcuk: Well, N-series are never supposed to work, they are for showing off :) Sep 20 19:52:11 shut up Sep 20 19:52:37 she used her nokia as she was used to Sep 20 19:52:39 Stskeeps: You can imagine the consequences Sep 20 19:52:51 lcuk: I.e. she tried dialing a phone number and N8 froze Sep 20 19:52:59 i saw the videos Sep 20 19:53:03 the blue nails girlie? Sep 20 19:53:22 lcuk: I am totally cool about it. Freezing when dialing a phone number is a feature. Sep 20 19:53:27 lcuk: yea Sep 20 19:55:26 RST38h, same woman, x3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVJ552BNeKY watching her use that is similar to how I see tracy hitting her Nokia, fingers are almost a blur but it works Sep 20 19:55:45 where's the blue nails N8 video? Sep 20 19:56:30 Stskeeps: Disturbing thing is, there are no Nokia supporters in sight in that thread, except maybe for that poor lone Nokia PR girl trying and failing to spin things in desirable way. Sep 20 19:56:49 that's kinda sad, how much slower it's to reach for the TS than knackering away at the keypad :-) Sep 20 19:57:15 ShadowJK, the touch and type stuff is really cool Sep 20 19:57:19 lcuk: Notice, I do not blame the blue-nailed woman, she is just doing her thing =) Sep 20 19:57:34 for dedicated one handed mobile use its awesome Sep 20 19:57:34 Hey all, I downloaded this text adventure game Gargoyle, anyone know what directory that downloads to? It's not in the details of the game. Sep 20 19:57:41 RST38h, sure Sep 20 19:57:53 lcuk: Oh, it is way better for one handed use than N900 Sep 20 19:58:39 my car has cruise control, I don't need one-handed phone anymore Sep 20 19:58:40 ;) Sep 20 19:58:42 lcuk: When it works, that is. And you will still badly miss the unified messaging, web browser, and sshd =) Sep 20 19:59:26 RST38h, of course :) just pointing out where it excels Sep 20 19:59:59 ShadowJK: BTW, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMep7JIDzgE&NR=1 Sep 20 20:00:22 ShadowJK: E70 replacement. Looks really slow though. Sep 20 20:01:08 Looks more like a.. symbian n900 Sep 20 20:01:25 true :) Sep 20 20:01:38 Symbian N9 rather Sep 20 20:01:40 .. or a N97 with fixed firmware. I bet the N97 owners are overjoyed Sep 20 20:02:09 N97 ownershave been overjoyed for quite a whilenow... Sep 20 20:03:14 [N] for [N]on-working (considering that N97's cheaper brother 5800 is quite a usable little handset) Sep 20 20:03:51 the 200E TS symbians look quite usable from what I've seen Sep 20 20:03:56 as far as symbian can be usable Sep 20 20:04:41 lcuk is right, the one-handed operation thing is a big deal Sep 20 20:06:54 * ShadowJK finds the N8 blue nails girl video Sep 20 20:07:15 ah... how "intuitive" and "user-friendly" touchscreens and multitouch are indeed :) Sep 20 20:07:59 oh it missed a swipe for a scroll and tap Sep 20 20:08:28 * RST38h hopes these all can be switched off Sep 20 20:08:31 bwahah Sep 20 20:08:42 RST38h, "lol" Sep 20 20:09:04 In order to not confuse users, all other methods of zooming have been killed Sep 20 20:09:07 I bet Sep 20 20:09:14 like, scrolling on N900 Sep 20 20:09:40 * RST38h still cannot understand the logic of that guy who killed scrollbars in Maemo5 Sep 20 20:09:49 "my car has cruise control, I don't need one-handed phone anymore" --ShadowJK. Sep 20 20:09:50 * kwtm imagines ShadowJK desperately typing into the N900, "Turn left! Turn left! Dammit, the bluetooth connection between my steering wheel and my N900 is flaky!" Sep 20 20:10:49 man, that girl has cut her nails and the capacitive screen is still not picking up her taps... or then the OS is playing dead Sep 20 20:10:53 hard to tell :-) Sep 20 20:10:58 RST38h: Wait, what? There *used to be* scrollbars in Maemo and someone decided to remove them? Sorry, I thought Maemo had always been this hard to use. Sep 20 20:11:21 ShadowJK: It's an optical touchscreen. It's confused by the colour blue. :) Sep 20 20:11:31 * RST38h sighs silently Sep 20 20:11:56 don't lie RST38h, you smirked at that joke as much as I did Sep 20 20:12:28 if kwtm was joking about the scrollbars I missed it :) Sep 20 20:12:49 lcuk: the problem is,it is not a joke... Sep 20 20:12:49 i was thinking the touchscreen optics ;) Sep 20 20:12:51 I wasn't joking. I still don't know how to get to the bottom of my contact list. Sep 20 20:13:05 kwtm: type Z! Sep 20 20:13:13 Captain Z! Sep 20 20:13:17 kwtm, just type Sep 20 20:13:25 or use the portraitmodecontact list in the phone app Sep 20 20:13:36 kwtm, there was also a D-pad that scrolled in most things when held in.. Sep 20 20:13:38 and not type Sep 20 20:13:52 but now we don't even have up/down cursor keys on half (or more) of the units Sep 20 20:13:54 :) Sep 20 20:14:24 * ShadowJK has almost figured out how to activate that scroll-faster mode with the kinetic swipe to scroll thing.. Sep 20 20:15:13 just scratch the screen as if you were a cat with rabies Sep 20 20:15:25 a one-clawed cat with rabies Sep 20 20:15:30 one pawed one clawed Sep 20 20:15:38 ah you can use all your fingers on both hands Sep 20 20:15:57 * RST38h does that, in the HAM application list =) Sep 20 20:16:13 Hmm, typing Z seems to work. What about scrolllists which are not indexed by alphabetical or otherwise cannot be jumped to by typing? Like the program launcher or the call history? Sep 20 20:16:25 they all are since pr1.2 Sep 20 20:17:03 the call history will probably get selected by caller name Sep 20 20:17:08 ShadowJK: Hmm, it seems to work too --I've just discovered that. Sep 20 20:17:27 Wow, you learn new things every day. Sep 20 20:17:29 kwtm, rabies cat method? Sep 20 20:17:38 ShadowJK: Yes, rabid cat. Sep 20 20:18:00 if only it worked in notes Sep 20 20:18:14 oh but i guess that one has a scrollbar Sep 20 20:18:20 * kwtm imagines self showing off to others: "My GeekPhone is far superior to your lowly iPhone! This is how I scroll!" (index and middle finger running on the N900 screen for about 20 paces) Sep 20 20:18:50 RST38h: You're right, call history can be filtered. What about app launcher? Sep 20 20:19:44 * kwtm is still sore about N900 Contact app importing only 1000 contacts AT A TIME. (If it's capable of STORING more contacts, why can't they be IMPORTED all in one go??) Sep 20 20:20:03 Guy at work with 5800: "This is how I scroll:.. Oh wtf what hte hell is that, look!" - "Huh?! What" - *5800 guy steals a pen and starts trying to hit the tiny scrollbars on the screen* Sep 20 20:20:57 ShadowJK: easier to hit them with a thumb Sep 20 20:21:14 5800 is actually better at finger scrolling than n900, dunno why Sep 20 20:21:14 5800 users? Sep 20 20:22:08 RST38h, I've always seen him use a pen for the scrollbars and nothing else :) Sep 20 20:22:23 like, it's the only thing he uses a pen for Sep 20 20:22:54 anyone here using DreamRemote with dm7000? Sep 20 20:25:06 couldn't make that do anything with my vu+ duo Sep 20 20:31:43 How can I change what kernel that boots? Sep 20 20:35:49 with flasher Sep 20 20:36:59 Random. Does anyone with a clue on slashdot know if it's possibel to get s list of posts you posrted as anonymous? Sep 20 20:37:52 jacekowski, found it in the wiki Sep 20 20:38:01 http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power#Verification_of_proper_installation Sep 20 20:38:05 :D Sep 20 20:38:10 sleep-time Sep 20 20:38:14 apt-get install kernel-power-bootimg Sep 20 20:38:15 apt-get install --reinstall multiboot-kernel-power Sep 20 20:38:59 going to make my n900 fly with swappiness 30, new transition.ini and OC Sep 20 20:39:33 but not sure which one of Where DEFAUL > LV > ULV > XLV > IDEAL. i will use Sep 20 20:43:17 heh Sep 20 20:43:27 another OC luser Sep 20 20:52:11 how do i make the n900 stop updating software? or change the time it does so Sep 20 20:53:09 finally a -semi- advanced search for the contacts in maemo, a custom ring tones for contacts, we only need a way to create 'groups' and contact will be a bit more usable :-) Sep 20 21:13:16 OK, how the hell do I configure flashlight-extra? Sep 20 21:16:19 Ah, now it makes sense. Sep 20 21:23:10 what format does a file have to be in for it to be accepted by the Contact List import application? Sep 20 21:28:30 smhar: have you tried the application called scout. It works for me searching contacts etc Sep 20 21:37:49 jpinx-eeepc, yes, I tried scout, an I have been using it since its beginning, but now there is a plugin for Contacts: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/extended-contacts-search/ Sep 20 21:38:57 and there is the custom ring tones plugin: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/per-contact-ringtones/ Sep 20 21:39:21 smhar: cool - thanks :) Sep 20 21:39:29 jpinx-eeepc, so, still missing a way to create and use groups of contacts Sep 20 21:39:45 smhar: you don't happen to know a way to import contacts froma file? Sep 20 21:41:04 depending on the format, you can use, Get Contacts from the contacts menu Sep 20 21:41:57 smhar: yea - I am in there, down to "import contacts file" -- but it does not recognise .csv or .ncc Sep 20 21:43:03 jpinx-eeepc, last item is Import Contacts, then Import contacts file Sep 20 21:43:29 yes - but it doesn't reconise the formats Sep 20 21:45:45 sorry, never tried it myself Sep 20 21:45:53 ok thanks Sep 20 22:12:35 according to the offical spec of the n900, "Up to 16 GB of additional storage with an external microSD card", is that real? like a >16GB microsd won't work? Sep 20 22:15:54 pigeon, yes. Sep 20 22:16:35 16GB was just what was easily available when the N900 went through certification process. Sep 20 22:17:12 GAN900: sorry, you mean >16G will or will not work? Sep 20 22:17:15 pigeon, there's no reason 2TB SDXC cards wouldn't work. Sep 20 22:17:20 So, yes. Sep 20 22:17:44 right, thanks. Sep 20 22:18:04 sync Sep 20 22:18:09 doh Sep 20 22:18:15 just that my 8G is full Sep 20 23:47:49 hmm Sep 20 23:47:53 no other place to ask this ... :/ Sep 20 23:48:01 got an old Samsung A740 phone Sep 20 23:48:03 two of them actuall Sep 20 23:48:12 can I just copy the rootfs from A->B to clone it? XD Sep 21 01:35:14 jacekowski, why OC [l]user? Sep 21 01:39:05 OC is just OC, if it really was safe the higher speed would be default dont you think? :) Sep 21 01:40:07 nah Sep 21 01:41:16 mm Sep 21 02:10:38 lol **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 21 02:59:57 2010