**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 24 10:52:15 2010 Sep 24 10:52:21 i have the impression it does some sort of weighted choosing depending on the characters you already typed and some random formula, somtimes if you type one or more of the characters in the autoconmplete suggestion it will change the word to somthing else Sep 24 10:53:41 fucking gizmodo "analysts" really piss me off Sep 24 10:53:55 lol Sep 24 10:54:23 tbh autocompletion was such a offending futile thing, I disabled it on day 1 Sep 24 10:54:53 lol Sep 24 10:55:03 http://gizmodo.com/5646781/will-nokia-jump-aboard-the-windows-phone-7-train Sep 24 10:56:09 a spellchecker highlighting incorrect words, with suggestions in context menu - that's be a really nice thing though Sep 24 10:56:52 somthing like Firefox' spellchecker? Sep 24 10:56:55 wazd: WUT??? Sep 24 10:57:36 DocScrutinizer: seriously, they're all stupid to the bones, now I'm sure Sep 24 10:57:38 TiagoTiago: something like KDE spellchecker in text input boxes Sep 24 10:58:05 wazd: ack - I don't even dare to click the link Sep 24 10:58:24 wazd to be fair, since we know that the n900 is perfectly capable of running multiple operating systems, why complain? Sep 24 10:58:37 DocScrutinizer: well, the title describes all that US bullshit :) Sep 24 10:59:08 yeah Sep 24 10:59:20 lcuk: the point is not in n900 or dual boot, the point is in all that pro-US point of view Sep 24 10:59:32 wazd, so? I didnt mean dual boot Sep 24 10:59:40 i meant the fact that its hardware and its capable Sep 24 10:59:51 lcuk: everything that's outside the US is lame by default Sep 24 10:59:58 lol Sep 24 11:00:55 wazd: outside US?? o.O duh, don't scare us, we are sure there's no such thing Sep 24 11:00:59 well wazd, everything has localised favorites Sep 24 11:01:18 lcuk: beleive me, I don't :D Sep 24 11:01:30 David Hasselhoff is a crap singer for 99% of the world, but is worshiped as a god in Germany Sep 24 11:01:55 I had ridiculously awesome autocomplete on my sony ericcson Sep 24 11:02:13 wazd: there are some remote US protectorates, but non-US parts of the world? impoooosible! Sep 24 11:02:19 on the N900 though, it can't really get much further away from the word I need even if it tried Sep 24 11:02:47 DocScrutinizer: yep :) Sep 24 11:03:20 lcuk: he's a singer? :D Sep 24 11:03:31 lcuk: I thought he's an actor :) Sep 24 11:04:02 wazd, the same applies Sep 24 11:04:27 google for rest of world, baidu for China Sep 24 11:04:34 david hasenkopf? blarrgh! Nobody here seems to even know him Sep 24 11:05:07 lol Sep 24 11:05:13 wazd, what handset OS is most popular in China by the way? do you know? Sep 24 11:05:22 can anyone give me rough idea hw qt 4.7 will benefit normal n900 userz? Sep 24 11:05:33 DocScrutinizer, in austria we know him for the lols :D Sep 24 11:05:56 Sadaathere: fix list view scrolling error (can be see in Khweeteur) Sep 24 11:06:00 lcuk: MTK? :D Sep 24 11:06:11 Sadaathere: fix some input error in qlineedit Sep 24 11:06:20 Sadaathere: fix some copy / paste problem Sep 24 11:06:28 but there are many more bug fixed Sep 24 11:06:37 Sadaathere, qt.47 is the combined efforts to allow a stable usable rock solid development environment and combines the on device framwork with a top notch sdk and IDE to allow seamless end to end cross platform development Sep 24 11:06:55 cross platform development <<< haha ... :) Sep 24 11:07:18 we are still far from a real cross plateform ... but it s a good start Sep 24 11:07:25 a really good one Sep 24 11:07:44 why Khertan_atWork Sep 24 11:07:53 thanks for reply will it make maemo more friendly Sep 24 11:07:57 what did you have to step outside the walled garden to do Sep 24 11:08:07 Sadaathere, it already has in many ways Sep 24 11:08:23 qt applications are growing steadily and people are making all sorts of things with it Sep 24 11:08:30 lcuk: there is still many things which are specifics to some plateform :) Sep 24 11:08:36 Khertan_atWork, like.. Sep 24 11:08:47 are we ever gonna get "copile one run everywhere" ? Sep 24 11:08:57 qpixmap on n900 doesn't support gif :) Sep 24 11:08:59 nobody ever said that Sep 24 11:09:01 s/one/once Sep 24 11:09:04 s/one/once/ Sep 24 11:09:05 TiagoTiago meant: s/once/once Sep 24 11:09:11 gah Sep 24 11:09:14 hrhr Sep 24 11:09:16 i mean like y we aint gettin flash 10.1? Sep 24 11:09:20 TiagoTiago, thats not the aim Sep 24 11:09:25 code once Sep 24 11:09:35 you may have to build for different platforms Sep 24 11:09:40 due to binary diffs etc Sep 24 11:09:41 lcuk: and for respecting guidesline for some device (like n900) you need to use specifics class Sep 24 11:09:53 like QMaemo5ValueButton Sep 24 11:09:53 :) Sep 24 11:10:08 whats that look like? Sep 24 11:10:10 of course this class aren't available for other plateform Sep 24 11:10:21 and why isnt it possible to use a default qbutton Sep 24 11:10:38 with some sort of vm bytecode it could be possible Sep 24 11:10:48 lcuk: it s possible ... but require to inherits the widget and paint things yourself Sep 24 11:10:58 basically qt makes things easier for programmers right? Sep 24 11:11:08 Sadaathere: basically, yes Sep 24 11:11:10 Sadaathere, depends Sep 24 11:11:20 for existing apps written in gtk, no Sep 24 11:11:22 its not simpler Sep 24 11:11:24 Sadaathere: and basically, it s a really good framework Sep 24 11:11:29 including for porting Symbian programs to Maemo/MeeGo Sep 24 11:11:45 but if you are making something new theres a lot of support available which is easier to integrate Sep 24 11:11:56 lcuk: depends ... it s take me less time to rewrite PyGTKEditor written in pygtk with qt :) Sep 24 11:12:13 i see Sep 24 11:12:17 thats because you are a professional python developer now khertan Sep 24 11:12:18 :) Sep 24 11:12:30 and you arent hacking on a touchscreen only Sep 24 11:12:34 lcuk: unfortunatly i'm still not a professional developper :) Sep 24 11:12:37 and a whole host of other things Sep 24 11:12:48 :) you undersell yourself Khertan_atWork Sep 24 11:12:53 and will meego 1.1 will be available for n900 Sep 24 11:12:59 lcuk: ;) Sep 24 11:13:27 Sadaathere, go try it now Sep 24 11:13:38 Harmatan will be avaiable but not officially supported i believe Sep 24 11:13:43 * Khertan_atWork is still fighting with the community meego obs to build pyqt or pyside Sep 24 11:13:57 it won't be officially supported by the looks of things, but its being built up in the open now Sep 24 11:14:30 so we can port it bt it aint be official? Sep 24 11:14:49 no need to port, it will be native Sep 24 11:15:04 well, you bought a maemo device that runs the maemo os, that is what Nokia supports Sep 24 11:15:24 by native u mean installing on emmc? Sep 24 11:15:36 yes he does Sep 24 11:15:42 i mean it is like Maemo5 Sep 24 11:15:53 TiagoTiago, every machine you target with an OS needs porting work done Sep 24 11:15:53 oh got it Sep 24 11:16:16 not if the OS was developed for that machine already Sep 24 11:16:20 the n900 is a capable machine and hence meego open development targeting it makes sense Sep 24 11:16:29 is it gonna be fully functional meego? Sep 24 11:16:31 TiagoTiago, meego is developed for many devices Sep 24 11:16:50 but they are testing it on the N900 first Sep 24 11:17:01 i mean not buggy like nitdroid Sep 24 11:17:38 is it gonna be fully functional meego? Sep 24 11:19:12 might not come with all the programs i think (things like phone, maps etc) Sep 24 11:19:43 so its not gonna be fully functional one then Sep 24 11:21:12 bt they are experimenting this os on n900 so y its nt gonna be ful functional Sep 24 11:21:39 the reasoning was that those programs would be added by the manufacturers, and since it's not the manufacturer installing it in your N900 the proprietary programs won't be there Sep 24 11:22:22 is the instruction set of N900 about its phone capabilities fully open to public? is there an API? can one go and develop its own phone app on Maemo or Meego ? Sep 24 11:22:48 but i don't know the official stance from Nokia, this is all from memory of reading some comments by random people somewhere i don't remember whewre Sep 24 11:23:10 s/its/his-her Sep 24 11:24:21 are we gonna get flash 10.1 on maemo 5? Sep 24 11:24:41 lcuk: to be honest it s quite difficult to find an interesting python dev jobs in france Sep 24 11:25:43 hum... just notice that i'm not the only one to run it s own repository for n900 ;) Sep 24 11:25:45 http://fuuko.libferris.com/maemo/n900/repository/ Sep 24 11:25:45 :) Sep 24 11:26:24 there's a few.. matan also has his own Sep 24 11:26:26 i asked in the forum but got no replies yet; is there a way to use dialup internet with the N900? Sep 24 11:26:28 sandst1, on meego they use ofono Sep 24 11:26:48 TiagoTiago, what do you mean by dialup internet? HSCSD? Sep 24 11:26:53 sorry for my ignorance, what is ofono ? Sep 24 11:26:57 khertan_artWork , r we gonna get flash 10.1 on maemo 5? Sep 24 11:27:23 like the old 56 modems, dial a number and they give you internet Sep 24 11:27:42 all Internet? Sep 24 11:27:52 interenet access Sep 24 11:27:57 can I have an internet backup? Sep 24 11:27:58 just in case Sep 24 11:28:00 sandstorm, open api to telephony stuff.. Sep 24 11:28:05 * Corsac calls google Sep 24 11:28:12 Sadaathere: don't know only nokia can answer Sep 24 11:28:14 TiagoTiago, well, no. Not really Sep 24 11:28:20 why not? Sep 24 11:28:29 hmm, is that comply with Nokias infrastructure? Sep 24 11:28:34 is it possible khertan_artwork? Sep 24 11:28:46 Sadaathere: everythings is possible Sep 24 11:28:49 TiagoTiago, because if you try to push the 56K modulation over a GSM voice channel, the voice codec is going to scramble it unrecognizable by the modem on the other end Sep 24 11:28:54 lol right Sep 24 11:29:01 wait Sep 24 11:29:04 * merlin1991 greps the logs Sep 24 11:29:09 csd :D Sep 24 11:29:12 TiagoTiago, it might work at very slow speeds... like 300 bits per second or something :) Sep 24 11:29:12 Sadaathere: just a matter of times, and interests Sep 24 11:29:13 I remember someone developing exactly that Sep 24 11:29:15 but i can set it up on reguar mobiles Sep 24 11:29:30 TiagoTiago: that's a data call Sep 24 11:29:35 and it costs much more than regular calls Sep 24 11:29:41 TiagoTiago, ok so now you're talking about (HS)CSD then and not 56K modems :) Sep 24 11:29:49 like old wap connections Sep 24 11:29:56 yup Sep 24 11:29:59 khertan_artwork : nokia not talking much interest in n900 Sep 24 11:30:01 i would be calling a tollfree number Sep 24 11:30:07 taking* Sep 24 11:30:19 yeah, we should have a way to connect to the internet with hscsd on the n900 Sep 24 11:30:20 I didn't think anyone used CSD after GPRS came :) Sep 24 11:30:33 in case you're teleported to 1998 Sep 24 11:30:39 well, it's free Sep 24 11:30:41 (or maybe even before?) Sep 24 11:30:50 TiagoTiago: it's probably really not free Sep 24 11:31:16 it's a free toll number people use with landline connections Sep 24 11:31:28 for free dialup internet Sep 24 11:31:35 http://pastebin.com/yGeqGGqm Sep 24 11:31:39 then it won't work with hscsd Sep 24 11:31:42 (probably) Sep 24 11:31:49 I don't think any modem that's connected to landline is going to be able to talk HSCSD... Sep 24 11:32:11 the instructions i found on the internet says it's just like setting a wap connection Sep 24 11:33:16 here http://www.tutomania.com.br/tutorial/internet-no-celular-gratis Sep 24 11:33:20 khertan_artwork : nokia was plaining to bring maemo 6 bt stopped the project cuz of meego n nw they r not bringing it official its unfair :'( Sep 24 11:33:49 Sadaathere: they will never bring maemo 6 officially anyway :) Sep 24 11:33:51 lots of people are upset at them for that, join the club Sep 24 11:34:44 khertan_artwork: yea bt they aint doing much for n900 when its capable of doing so many things Sep 24 11:34:52 Sadaathere, "was planning to bring maemo 6".. they had never announced Maemo 6 for N900. Sep 24 11:35:03 Sadaathere, ahem Sep 24 11:35:06 meego is open source Sep 24 11:35:12 get those apps on maemo Sep 24 11:35:18 if thats how you feel Sep 24 11:36:19 1cuk : and qt will make it possible to run meego apps on maemo right? Sep 24 11:37:38 Sadaathere, thats the intent yes, however since qt does not restrict to the walled garden, its entirely possible and feasible that developers have shortcutted the process Sep 24 11:37:51 and have incompatible changes within the specific app itself Sep 24 11:37:56 as Khertan_atWork mentioned he had to do Sep 24 11:38:01 Though I don't think you can call it a Meego app then anymore Sep 24 11:38:16 not that that will stop people from complaining that non-Meego-app X runs on Meego but not Maemo :) Sep 24 11:38:34 a QtMobility app Sep 24 11:38:34 oh got it Sep 24 11:38:52 Sadaathere: porting apps between the two platforms should be easy Sep 24 11:39:03 so with qt we dont really need meego for n900 Sep 24 11:39:45 cuz we r getting its apps Sep 24 11:39:54 we arent getting its apps Sep 24 11:40:02 but they can be ported Sep 24 11:40:08 give them patches Sep 24 11:40:10 :) Sep 24 11:40:17 (also, fix other bugs too :P) Sep 24 11:40:45 any idea how i can setup the connection like they describe in that site? Sep 24 11:40:55 You can't Sep 24 11:41:05 in what sire? Sep 24 11:41:07 And I seriously doubt it'd work on a normal GSM phone too Sep 24 11:41:15 lcuk, he wants to call a landline dialup modem Sep 24 11:41:16 http://www.tutomania.com.br/tutorial/internet-no-celular-gratis Sep 24 11:41:30 thanks for info guys Sep 24 11:41:33 timeless: waah, mxr.maemo search fatals Sep 24 11:41:56 sp3000, i think timeless is somewhere in Ireland atm Sep 24 11:42:00 fails and crashes? Sep 24 11:42:21 lcuk, I kow, otherwise I'd kick him in the shins directly :) Sep 24 11:42:24 know, too Sep 24 11:42:31 haha Sep 24 11:43:55 oh, mxr.moego search on fremantle works, even though its front page would direct you to mxr.maemo Sep 24 11:43:55 MohammadAG зштп Sep 24 11:43:58 ping Sep 24 11:44:38 MohammadAG where did you get mircousb - to usb for host mode? Sep 24 11:48:00 could you check the parameters it says there to setup and see if you can identify what type of conenction eit is exactly and whether it is possible to use that with a N900 please? Sep 24 11:50:21 lcuk? Sep 24 11:50:55 TiagoTiago, i cant even understand the page let alone work out what you want to do, so you test it Sep 24 11:51:10 scroll down to the parameters Sep 24 11:51:21 TiagoTiago: it's specific to Claro in Brazil Sep 24 11:51:32 would not work with anyone else Sep 24 11:51:41 but the parameters are generic to many devices Sep 24 11:51:54 TiagoTiago: are you in Brazil? Sep 24 11:52:19 but you can't understand the parameters and identify what type of connection it is? Sep 24 11:52:21 yes Sep 24 11:55:56 it says ISDN , but I am not sure if that's right Sep 24 11:56:00 ZogG, click on the link in the thread Sep 24 11:56:11 :( Sep 24 11:56:39 TiagoTiago: better you read it in your own language and work it out - my portuguese is a bit rusty... Sep 24 11:56:51 MohammadAG amazon? Sep 24 11:57:48 forget the text, pay attention to the parameters Sep 24 12:01:01 * TiagoTiago sighs Sep 24 12:02:10 N900 doesn't have any CSD support Sep 24 12:02:36 ShadowJK: and for a good reason! Sep 24 12:02:39 why would a ceelphone support christopher street day Sep 24 12:02:41 :D Sep 24 12:02:50 ok its a bad one ... Sep 24 12:03:11 are you sure? why? Sep 24 12:03:19 :D Sep 24 12:03:32 kerio, well if they think MMS is dying and not worth the effort, then HSCSD is like a dinosaur that's been dead for a million years Sep 24 12:03:49 MMS *is* not worth the effort Sep 24 12:03:55 right frals? :P Sep 24 12:04:26 MMS rocks! Sep 24 12:04:28 what is the difference between this and using the N900 as a bluetooth dialup modem? Sep 24 12:04:46 N900 uses gprs Sep 24 12:04:50 packet data Sep 24 12:05:07 ZogG, err, i said click the link in the thread Sep 24 12:05:16 you can't use it for actual dialup? Sep 24 12:05:42 no Sep 24 12:05:54 noob question: can flasher-3.5 flash a plain bZimage kernel, or does it always need fiasco files? Sep 24 12:06:11 so DUN profile is just a name? Sep 24 12:06:26 PCs don't talk any GSM/3G protocols, so in order for PCs to be able to use GPRS, N900 pretends to the PC that it is a modem, and it also pretends that another modem answers Sep 24 12:06:34 TiagoTiago: not as a stand alone device - but I daresay you could cobble togather some form of usb modem and plug it in Sep 24 12:06:48 DUN profile means that the device looks (to the PC) like a dialup modem Sep 24 12:07:11 ShadowJK: it's all smoke and mirrors ;) Sep 24 12:07:26 MohammadAG, I believe you have a copy of gcc 4.4 or latter? :) Sep 24 12:07:34 what if you setup the connection in the pc using dialup parameters (like a real number to dial to) ? Sep 24 12:08:48 That'd be an interesting experiment :) Sep 24 12:08:56 heh Sep 24 12:09:06 fill your boots TiagoTiago :) Sep 24 12:09:21 It does not work. Sep 24 12:09:24 what does that mean? Sep 24 12:09:38 pnatd does not support 'atd' to random numbers Sep 24 12:09:44 Annoyingly. Sep 24 12:09:59 is that a software limitation? Sep 24 12:10:19 Only the 'magic' atd*99# - or whatever the exact sequence is - to enable a ppp session Sep 24 12:10:21 yes Sep 24 12:10:46 there is also the concept of circuit switched data Sep 24 12:10:58 This is phone-phone fixed bandwidth pipes. Sep 24 12:11:01 MohammadAG synaptic isnt going to be released with all dependencies or? Sep 24 12:11:07 But most phones do not enable it. Sep 24 12:11:58 atd? Sep 24 12:12:02 dial for data? Sep 24 12:12:06 no Sep 24 12:12:25 atd is the noral hayes 'dial a number' command Sep 24 12:12:32 ooh Sep 24 12:12:34 just that? Sep 24 12:12:59 SpeedEvil, he wants to dial a landline ISDN or landline analog modem... Sep 24 12:13:12 yes. Sep 24 12:13:24 As i understand, if you enable CSD, you can dial IDSN Sep 24 12:13:33 In principle Sep 24 12:13:45 But I forget the details. Sep 24 12:13:56 any idea how i can do that? Sep 24 12:13:58 oh Sep 24 12:14:09 CSD needs enabled on the cell provider side Sep 24 12:14:21 oh Sep 24 12:14:21 It's also 9600bits/sec only Sep 24 12:14:29 What is the difference between atd and atdt? Sep 24 12:14:43 t for tone dialing Sep 24 12:14:52 one dials with loopdisconnect, the other with DTMF Sep 24 12:14:52 if it gives me free internet i don't care about the speed Sep 24 12:14:52 entirely irrelevant on digital systems Sep 24 12:14:59 TiagoTiago: It's expensive Sep 24 12:15:10 TiagoTiago: It's typically more expensive than a call Sep 24 12:15:16 atdp probably also works :-P Sep 24 12:15:36 but i would be dialing a tollfree number... Sep 24 12:16:01 TiagoTiago: that's possible Sep 24 12:16:12 if your carrier allows Sep 24 12:16:15 ah ok, i have seen a way to emulate a 300 baud connction over tcp, with tcpser and vice... Sep 24 12:16:33 SpeedEvil: outbound CSD usually is enabled by default Sep 24 12:16:46 they would spy on the noise going thru the line? or does it use a completly different route? Sep 24 12:16:55 it's just inbound CSD that needs special care Sep 24 12:16:56 different protocol Sep 24 12:17:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_Switched_Data Sep 24 12:17:47 so if i tried dialing my landline and picked the phone i wouldn't be hearing those oldschool internet noises? Sep 24 12:18:01 TiagoTiago: your voice is sent OTA as data. CSD is sending plain data, with a flag saying "ain't voice" Sep 24 12:18:27 hm Sep 24 12:18:47 lmao Sep 24 12:19:02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkHwT6o6Jvw http://www.alice-dsl.net/lgoerke/tutorial.txt <- mailbox over tcp using turbo term Sep 24 12:19:09 u can't has free internet Sep 24 12:19:11 TiagoTiago: yes, if the carrier has a CSD->PTS_modem gateway Sep 24 12:19:23 POTS* Sep 24 12:19:25 kerio, but... but... www.free.fr? Sep 24 12:19:37 no way to do it oldschool with data encoded as sounds? Sep 24 12:20:14 TiagoTiago: lol Sep 24 12:20:44 TiagoTiago: GSM codec can't possibly do anything better than 75bd Sep 24 12:20:47 sure, with less bandwidth than you'd need for #maemo alone Sep 24 12:21:07 TiagoTiago: it's made for voice, not for modem/fax beeps Sep 24 12:21:13 well, that would at least be somthing Sep 24 12:21:24 and you still have to pay for the call Sep 24 12:21:31 would the modem on the other side handle such a low bw? Sep 24 12:21:39 usually yes Sep 24 12:21:42 not if i call a tollfree number Sep 24 12:22:06 the tollfree number pays Sep 24 12:22:34 that is their choice Sep 24 12:22:50 TiagoTiago: but, as mentioned above, afaik all carriers support outbound CSD and offer a CSD->POTS_modem gateway. This way you'd get 9600bd Sep 24 12:23:37 but tey would charge me even though i' dialing a tollfree number? Sep 24 12:23:58 kerio: depends. sometimes the even *get* money - so called termination fee Sep 24 12:24:58 i'm* Sep 24 12:25:00 TiagoTiago: nope, the carrier usually doesn't charge on top of a normal call fee for CSD Sep 24 12:25:50 TiagoTiago: they charge for tollfree sometimes, nevertheless Sep 24 12:26:10 depends on your contract Sep 24 12:26:27 i don't get charged when i call the tollfree number for the pizza delivery place Sep 24 12:27:09 so you also won't get charged when calling same number via GSM-fax (yes that's supported as well usually), or via GSM-data aka CSD Sep 24 12:27:30 :D Sep 24 12:27:39 can i use GSM-fax or data wwith the N900? Sep 24 12:27:42 this discussion is like warping back 8 years in time Sep 24 12:27:45 Also - freephone data services may have blocks for cellular Sep 24 12:27:47 IIRC Sep 24 12:27:56 some do, some don't Sep 24 12:27:59 as it can cost them money in some places Sep 24 12:28:05 yeah Sep 24 12:28:17 SpeedEvil: usually they have, as they have to pay extra for cellphones calling in Sep 24 12:28:34 the pizza place i get my piizzas from don't block cellphones Sep 24 12:28:54 TiagoTiago: does he have a fax? Sep 24 12:29:09 the N900? Sep 24 12:29:22 the pizza place :-P Sep 24 12:29:32 ah, dunno Sep 24 12:30:07 anyway, check how to set up CSD and/or fax connections on N900 pnatd Sep 24 12:30:27 is it on the wiki? Sep 24 12:30:39 dunno what rapuyama/pnatd supports Sep 24 12:30:47 nfc Sep 24 12:30:52 oh :( Sep 24 12:30:59 ~nfc Sep 24 12:31:00 nfc is, like, No Fucking Clue Sep 24 12:31:07 oh :( Sep 24 12:31:56 I'm rather sure I heard BT PAN is using pnatd CSD Sep 24 12:31:58 lol Sep 24 12:32:34 err, not CSD, but usual data call establishing Sep 24 12:32:49 which is a superset of plain CSD Sep 24 12:32:55 on AT level Sep 24 12:34:18 DocScrutinizer, why would bt pan use csd? Sep 24 12:34:33 probably rapuyama also supports HSCSD, which will give you a lot more than 9600bd, but is a completely different story, carrier_enabling side Sep 24 12:35:06 hw itself could support it, but whole different story is if the cellmo has it enabled or not Sep 24 12:35:08 maybe it's been BT DUN, don't quote me on that Sep 24 12:37:31 TiagoTiago: start pnatd; type "ATD"; wait what happens Sep 24 12:38:40 it fails immediaterly Sep 24 12:38:44 it does not support atd Sep 24 12:39:01 should answer with usual "RINGING; CARRIER 9600 DETECTED; Welcome to " Sep 24 12:39:09 :-( Sep 24 12:39:39 I completely missed where this discussion started.. why are we talking about csd here? Sep 24 12:39:42 ~curse cellmo Sep 24 12:39:43 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, cellmo ! Sep 24 12:40:07 and why would you like to use it? for.. anything? :) Sep 24 12:40:30 (this is just professional interest from me) Sep 24 12:40:33 it says error :( Sep 24 12:40:37 Surfa: for point2point data connections? Sep 24 12:40:40 MohammadAG51, kinda missed it out Sep 24 12:40:51 i wanna use a tollfree dialup internet connnection Sep 24 12:41:10 DocScrutinizer51+MohammadAG51 = 102? Sep 24 12:41:16 TiagoTiago: you want to use a dialup connection. period Sep 24 12:41:36 ZogG: hahaha Sep 24 12:41:52 TiagoTiago: Where are you in the world? Sep 24 12:41:58 TiagoTiago, ehm, dialup and csd aren't really necessarily related.. :) Sep 24 12:42:27 "but why use a dialup, its so slow blah blah blah" 'cause then i can have free internet dialing a tollfree number Sep 24 12:42:33 42 + 4711 != the mellifluous answer to everything Sep 24 12:42:33 Brazil Sep 24 12:43:02 plantronics bluetooth backbeat - anyone tried this one? Sep 24 12:43:07 i should watch Brazil Sep 24 12:43:11 TiagoTiago, ok so you really are talking about csd? DUN itself may have different meanings also for PDP DUN for example Sep 24 12:43:13 "They want to kill people with my software that doesn't work" Sep 24 12:43:15 I should eat some brazil nuts. Sep 24 12:43:20 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/24/cia_netezza/ Sep 24 12:43:45 And moo ZogG Sep 24 12:43:52 the instructions for other devices ssays it's the same number used by landline dial up modems Sep 24 12:44:15 TiagoTiago, but I'm really affraid that no modern Nokia device (or any other vendor either) will provide you csd capability nowadays Sep 24 12:44:33 :( Sep 24 12:44:37 it's years since it was supported last time Sep 24 12:44:38 Surfa: duh? not? Sep 24 12:44:46 DocScrutinizer, yes Sep 24 12:45:34 I should think every decent AT modem implementation still supports it - alas we only got pnatd on N900 Sep 24 12:46:21 of course not every device nowadays has a AT modem interface at all Sep 24 12:46:36 but those who have should quite usually do CSD Sep 24 12:46:46 even that at modem is there, it doesn't mean that you would have csd capabilities Sep 24 12:46:53 no no.. not really Sep 24 12:47:17 who postet that pic of the bat yesterday? :D Sep 24 12:47:19 this is something that I really should know :) Sep 24 12:47:21 screw the idiots Sep 24 12:48:04 deliberately 'optimizing out' the most basic AT command out of their AT interface Sep 24 12:49:03 RST38h kuuu Sep 24 12:49:04 well, maintaining masses of legacy functionality that practically no one uses may lead to some decisions Sep 24 12:49:23 bah Sep 24 12:49:27 TiagoTiago = practically no one? Sep 24 12:49:37 DocScrutinizer: supporting t would break the interface. Sep 24 12:49:39 it Sep 24 12:49:54 no, why would it break the IF?? Sep 24 12:49:59 As the phone could not then make/recieve calls Sep 24 12:50:07 obviously Sep 24 12:50:14 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Sep 24 12:50:31 kerio, in this case yes :) this is the first time in years I've heard someone talking about csd Sep 24 12:50:53 :( Sep 24 12:51:32 receive calls is outright impossible as long as MT-originated CSD call is established - far end will get no call progress Sep 24 12:52:00 csd? :O Sep 24 12:52:06 cristopher street day? Sep 24 12:52:22 for make calls MT-orig it's quite easily handled along scheme of "no signal" Sep 24 12:52:30 On packaging formats. http://xkcd.com/ Sep 24 12:52:53 so how's it breaking IF? Sep 24 12:52:55 Are two ppp sessions at once supported? Sep 24 12:52:59 I should try this. Sep 24 12:53:22 I'm assuming it would break thespecification of the interface. Sep 24 12:53:28 Which means WONTFIX Sep 24 12:53:44 the spec which is? Sep 24 12:54:01 "a call MUST proceed, no matter what" Sep 24 12:54:04 ? Sep 24 12:54:07 ~2119 Sep 24 12:54:08 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Sep 24 12:54:20 The magical perfct user-interface document written before the code, or anyones touched hardware. Sep 24 12:55:52 SpeedEvil: when trying to make a call while CSD connection established, the IF simply signals to userland either of "No signal" or "BTS busy" Sep 24 12:56:16 the infobot explanation should come with a linlk to the rfc in question Sep 24 12:56:16 both MUST be inplemeted in any IF Sep 24 12:56:40 so the IF specs can not break due to a simple CSD Sep 24 12:56:52 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10354 Sep 24 12:56:53 Bug 10354: Symbol virtual keyboard inconsistent to access from hardware keyboard. Sep 24 12:57:08 For why mashing two buttons is wrong, and the user should alwys press them carefully. Sep 24 12:57:26 Even though mashing them would have no negative impact on the UI, and make it easier for users. Sep 24 12:57:47 And you're expecting logical resolutions? Sep 24 12:58:57 sorry I can't help it, i'm not expecting anything, I'm siply in logical operation mode Sep 24 13:00:12 of course Nokia has messed it up once again, as they did so many times esp with cellmo. No surprise. I'm just delivering proof for the use of 20min of thinking about it Sep 24 13:01:19 I'm confused, how exactly do i repro that bug? Sep 24 13:01:30 and btw this is another depressing example of the devastating effects of "we don't need that" mindset Sep 24 13:02:25 ..which gave us abominations like y2k issue, broken audio on OM devices etc etc pp Sep 24 13:03:05 ... and now has left us fsckd wrt CSD Sep 24 13:07:02 hm, IMO pressing Control before pressing Fn not triggering the Symbols vk makes complete sense Sep 24 13:07:55 that bug report is like pressing the "a" key before pressing shift and expecting upper case A to come out Sep 24 13:09:31 btw CSD point2point connections are the only *working* way to implement cryped phonecalls on a standard cellphone like N900 Sep 24 13:09:57 real phonecalls Sep 24 13:10:06 encrypted? Sep 24 13:10:09 not VoIP or similar things Sep 24 13:10:45 encrypted, yes Sep 24 13:10:53 is there such a thing as OTR for voice? Sep 24 13:11:08 OTR?? Sep 24 13:11:36 that IM encryption protocol with plausible deniability etc Sep 24 13:12:09 BS, what's plausible deniability for a switched call? Sep 24 13:12:39 "Not my phone" Sep 24 13:12:45 LOL Sep 24 13:13:00 http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/otr-codecon.pdf , encrypted voip http://zfone.com/ Sep 24 13:13:02 not my phone - but I'll pay the bill nevertheless Sep 24 13:13:33 you can decrypt the encrypted exchange to any plaintext you want, so no one can prove you really said what their decryptions says you said Sep 24 13:14:03 and there's presumably a way to decrypt it into what you really said, correct? Sep 24 13:14:20 because otherwise I don't see where the 'M' part of 'IM' is.... Sep 24 13:14:22 that's not related to 'plausible deniability" Sep 24 13:14:54 meh Sep 24 13:15:16 someone says you said somthing, you can say they forged it, and that is completly plausible Sep 24 13:15:27 that's BS Sep 24 13:15:53 It's not with a one-time-pad. Sep 24 13:16:05 why not just use strong encryption so they can't decrypt in the first place ??? Or am I missing something? Sep 24 13:16:06 Any signal and any desired signal can be made with the right key Sep 24 13:16:12 definition of 'plausible deniability' is: "no there's never been any call/file/messgae/whatever" Sep 24 13:16:13 yeah, there is some math juggling back and forth that lets the two participants decrypt each other without an eavesdropper figuring out how to do it Sep 24 13:16:56 perhaps i'm using the wrong expression Sep 24 13:17:17 TiagoTiago: yes I don't think you are explaining yourself very well here... Sep 24 13:17:47 TiagoTiago: google4ZRTP Sep 24 13:18:30 secure encryption of RTP media(voice) streams Sep 24 13:18:38 https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Off-the-Record_Messaging Sep 24 13:19:06 I'm working on low-latency RTP encryption Sep 24 13:19:19 the interesting bit is that RTCP is completely inadapted for this scenario Sep 24 13:19:39 ZRTP Sep 24 13:19:59 "Off-the-Record Messaging, commonly referred to as OTR, is a cryptographic protocol that provides strong encryption for instant messaging conversations. OTR uses a combination of the AES symmetric-key algorithm, the Diffie-Hellman key exchange, and the SHA-1 hash function. In addition to authentication and encryption, OTR provides perfect forward secrecy and malleable encryption." Sep 24 13:20:02 works since years Sep 24 13:20:25 docscrutinizer: aye, proprietary implementation though. Sep 24 13:20:27 OMG encryption it must be illegal Sep 24 13:20:32 TiagoTiago: so what? Sep 24 13:20:38 * SpeedEvil stabs anyone that used 'perfect' in the sense of any encryption. Sep 24 13:20:55 SpeedEvil: one-time pads are perfect! Sep 24 13:20:57 crashanddie: as proprietary and open as PGP/GPG Sep 24 13:20:58 s/in the sense of any encryption// Sep 24 13:21:21 Somewhat perfect, yes. Sep 24 13:21:31 docscrutinizer: talking about ours, don't care about ZRTP :P Sep 24 13:21:43 ooh Sep 24 13:21:45 AES isn't - there are already attacks faster than bruteforce on subsets of the algorithm. Sep 24 13:21:53 It still - appears - to be strong at full depth. Sep 24 13:21:56 ~spank crashanddie Sep 24 13:21:57 * infobot bends crashanddie over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on crashanddie's pasty white buttocks. Sep 24 13:22:03 :( Sep 24 13:22:11 lol Sep 24 13:22:22 XORing with a one-time pad is as secure as it gets right? Sep 24 13:22:31 And AES-128 is securer than AES-256 Sep 24 13:22:37 and here we go again Sep 24 13:22:43 lol Sep 24 13:23:04 funny thing is, most people don't understand the impact of encryption Sep 24 13:23:13 most people do not care Sep 24 13:23:28 only evildoers care about encryption, "most people" have nothing to hide :) Sep 24 13:23:30 most people don't need to care Sep 24 13:23:33 yeah Sep 24 13:23:36 well, it's the interweb, so they go screaming "IT'S NOT SECURE ENOUGH, IT'S BROKEN" Sep 24 13:23:40 why do you want encryption Sep 24 13:23:43 are you a pedophile Sep 24 13:23:48 or a terrorist Sep 24 13:23:51 aes is as strong as your ability to absorb pain Sep 24 13:23:56 the answer is, yes to both. Sep 24 13:23:57 pexi: lol Sep 24 13:24:14 kerio: I have a bank account too Sep 24 13:24:20 marmoute, congrats Sep 24 13:24:36 kerio: does it put me in the above categories ? Sep 24 13:24:47 marmoute: a bank account that you use to buy CP and bombs? Sep 24 13:25:00 marmoute, having a bank account doesn't require encryption Sep 24 13:25:12 OTR has perfect foward secrecy, which means not even you can decrypt old conversations Sep 24 13:25:39 "perfect" only means something when you're writing the standard and rfc Sep 24 13:25:43 TiagoTiago: and the manufacturer of your monitor firmware :) Sep 24 13:25:49 as soon as it's published, it's not perfect anymore Sep 24 13:25:56 TiagoTiago, you can _remember_ the conversations though, so it's still only as strong as your ability to absorb pain, as pexi noted Sep 24 13:26:17 I'll be fucked if I remember this stupid conversation in 24h# Sep 24 13:26:22 but you could LIE and go to HELL for it >:| don't lie Sep 24 13:26:33 then it's a good thing i got a weak memory for these type of things Xp Sep 24 13:26:47 MNZ: only terrorists and pedophiles lie! Sep 24 13:26:59 you just lied, kerio Sep 24 13:27:08 politicians are both Sep 24 13:30:15 <.< Sep 24 13:30:17 crashanddie: No, my point to not use aes-256 is not only becauses it is weaker than aes-128, but because it is slower and it does not improve anything. I still use aes if it is faster than twofish. Sep 24 13:32:02 why people insist in password safes instead olf using things like http://passwordmaker.org/ and not keepping their passwords stored anywhere? Sep 24 13:33:07 s/olf/of/ Sep 24 13:33:07 TiagoTiago meant: why people insist in password safes instead of using things like http://passwordmaker.org/ and not keepping their passwords stored anywhere? Sep 24 13:34:07 TiagoTiago: cool Sep 24 13:36:33 TiagoTiago, personally, I use a password manager that I wrote myself on an encrypted usb dongle Sep 24 13:37:05 I just give it the application reference, and it gives me a password, I never even know the password Sep 24 13:37:49 on windows, it fills in the passwords in firefox and IE automagically, so I don't even need to interact with it, on osx/linux, it's a manual process where I click on the app name, and it puts the password in clipboard Sep 24 13:38:01 that doesn't sound very safe, keeping all your passwords stored in a single place..... Sep 24 13:38:13 as opposed to using the same password for everything? Sep 24 13:38:18 And everyone does that, anyway Sep 24 13:39:20 i don't do either of those, like i said, i use Password Maker, different passwords on each service and the passwords aren't stored anywhere Sep 24 13:39:23 assuming the encryption on the dongle is secure, it's just as secure as using a hashing algorithm to just hash your password with a url as that passwordmaker.org seems to Sep 24 13:39:38 my passwords are on printed paper in my desk Sep 24 13:39:47 ghostcube: good job Sep 24 13:39:59 :D better than any software shit Sep 24 13:41:05 i'm surprised no one has brought up again the fact that passwords stored on the n900 are all plaintext :P Sep 24 13:41:21 not all :) Sep 24 13:41:28 Khweeteur use oauth so no pass :) Sep 24 13:41:31 there is still all the parameters to set the hashing, even if someone figures out my password they still gotta figure out all the other stuff, meanwhile i can remeber it all easilly Sep 24 13:41:44 WTF? ARE NOKIA STUPID? Sep 24 13:42:03 what did they do again? Sep 24 13:42:04 :P Sep 24 13:42:26 ieatlint: many users use gainroot ... this is worse ;) Sep 24 13:42:29 from inside source (not mine) there is info they are considering using win7 as alternative os with symbian and meego Sep 24 13:42:50 Khertan_atWork btw i saw several bugs Sep 24 13:42:53 ZogG: they run win7 on booklet ;p Sep 24 13:43:00 i don't think that comes thru reliable sources Sep 24 13:43:01 ZogG: there isn't bug :) Sep 24 13:43:07 ZogG: oh which one , Sep 24 13:43:08 ? Sep 24 13:43:16 yeah, and from inside source (not mine), the new CEO loves to kill puppies around lunchtime while he's doing his secretary from behind Sep 24 13:43:30 first of all scrolling is not smooth, sometimes small finger move scroll whole list, so it's hard to scroll only several twits Sep 24 13:43:35 crashanddie: can we send him puppies? Sep 24 13:43:41 crashanddie: if you got that kind of pay, could you blame him? Sep 24 13:43:43 crashanddie: hhum using secretary like this is french style... Sep 24 13:43:56 Khertan_atWork, nope, that's international Sep 24 13:44:13 crashanddie: the international way is more the clinton way :) Sep 24 13:44:15 the main difference is that with France, even mistresses have mistresses Sep 24 13:44:30 Khertan_atWork, as well, sometimes the timeline is moved up the window, so there is black line between it and text inbox, but after several seconds it comming back in the place Sep 24 13:44:47 it comes** Sep 24 13:44:55 in soviet russia the secretary does you from behind Sep 24 13:44:56 zalgo Sep 24 13:45:11 TiagoTiago, fail Sep 24 13:45:11 crashanddie it's from mobile-review and if you consider they get all new prototypes to test from inside - i would consider it as the news Sep 24 13:45:15 TiagoTiago: that happens here too Sep 24 13:45:22 lol Sep 24 13:45:26 ZogG: it s not a khweeteur bug, even if it look like it is ...it s not. This is a bug of your eyes signal not well interpreted by your brain. Sep 24 13:45:30 crashanddie i come Sep 24 13:45:41 ZogG: seriously, it s a qt4.6 bug fixed in qt4.7 Sep 24 13:45:43 Khertan_atWork lol Sep 24 13:45:47 TiagoTiago, the "in soviet russia..." meme should always end with "YOU" Sep 24 13:46:01 ZogG: and a won't fix for 4.6 release ;( Sep 24 13:46:09 Khertan_atWork never saw it on any other app, which one of them btw you are talking about, black line or scrolling? Sep 24 13:46:20 artistic licence Sep 24 13:46:25 Khertan_atWork anyway 4.7 is out Sep 24 13:46:44 ZogG: 4.7 is out ... but not for maemo Sep 24 13:46:45 ZogG, it's not gospell, they have it wrong quite a few times Sep 24 13:47:06 Stskeeps, that kind of pay? He's not being paid *that* much... Sep 24 13:47:07 crashanddie will see it, but i wouldn't be surprised Sep 24 13:47:13 ZogG: i already see it in : KhtEditor and other qt apps using qlistview Sep 24 13:47:25 ieatlint, he won't take puppies, but you can send secretaries Sep 24 13:47:38 crashanddie nokia strategy is the best , chaos and absurd - it makes no sense - so you can't defeat them Sep 24 13:47:52 :( Sep 24 13:47:52 do i install the new qt myself or does each maker of each program needs to recompile their stuff using the new thing? Sep 24 13:47:52 because they defeat themselves? Sep 24 13:47:58 i don't have any secretaries to send Sep 24 13:48:35 TiagoTiago: you mean in upgrading to qt 4.7? ... the dynamic linker should handle it, no need to recompile apps Sep 24 13:48:37 crashanddie it's also good point , kill ones of your own, so enemies would be affraid of you Sep 24 13:48:40 they keep api compliance Sep 24 13:48:47 crashanddie do't you do it in france? Sep 24 13:48:57 so i should install it myself? Sep 24 13:49:10 on maemo? Sep 24 13:49:18 lcuk: an other meego qt diff : neither QT_SHARED nor QT_DLL is defined in the Meego Qt build Sep 24 13:49:22 i would say definitely not, unless you know exactly what you're doing Sep 24 13:49:23 oh btw pr1.3 will bring some of meego features =) Sep 24 13:49:35 and it's not gossip Sep 24 13:49:47 3x3 homescreens? Sep 24 13:50:11 ZogG: here's to hoping it's the rpm feature they bring! Sep 24 13:50:30 ieatlint don't really hope for that Sep 24 13:51:02 on one hand it's easier for meego apps to be ported (as i don't think all devs with closed source would make debs as well) Sep 24 13:51:10 but on other it can break a lot of stuff Sep 24 13:51:19 and from what i hear rpm sux =) Sep 24 13:51:46 ZogG: yep i confirm that some rpm tools sucks Sep 24 13:52:19 sending a sigterm to yum while updating or reading database will result in a broken rpmdb Sep 24 13:52:20 :) Sep 24 13:52:28 hmmm, do they do it well? now as i'm lonely i'm considering to emerge one of those Sep 24 13:52:31 are we ever gonna get the 3x3 homescreens? Sep 24 13:52:41 TiagoTiago: i hope not Sep 24 13:52:48 why? Sep 24 13:52:52 TiagoTiago like in droid or what do you mean? Sep 24 13:53:47 8-way swiping, toroidal topology, 3x3=9 homescreens, would rock big time Sep 24 13:54:41 Harmattan has some sort of mockup like that from 2009 Sep 24 13:54:57 Dunno if it'll have anything to do with the real thing though. Sep 24 13:56:28 Hi Sep 24 13:56:51 http://mynokiablog.com/2009/12/24/video-9-homescreens-on-the-n900-all-accessable-in-one-swipe/ Sep 24 13:58:18 TiagoTiago: I wouldn't know what I should put on all these screens. Sep 24 13:58:54 * RST38h feels like 4 home screens are too much, and you are offering 9! Sep 24 13:59:12 I never use more than 1. Sep 24 13:59:16 Just isn't convenient. Sep 24 13:59:18 you people are weird, I've got 5 on my N1 and two of them have pictures of tumbleweed on them. Sep 24 13:59:29 Swiping is such a pain. Sep 24 13:59:31 lol Sep 24 13:59:35 I suppose you have to like widgets, to have the need for that. I also only use one. Sep 24 13:59:36 agreed... i use 2, disabled the rest Sep 24 13:59:54 Nexus has buttons to access them though, no? Sep 24 13:59:55 have one for apps, and one for actual phone stuff like the dialer Sep 24 14:00:02 i could use a few more, don't like crowding them Sep 24 14:00:26 RST38h: I swype. Sep 24 14:01:42 that is not avaiable for the N900 yet either Sep 24 14:03:01 can I use deb packages from Maemo in Ubuntu ARM? Sep 24 14:03:24 you can, but it likely wont work out too well Sep 24 14:03:37 ok? Sep 24 14:04:51 I was hoping I didn't have to compile and create packages manually. Thought I'd see if x2goclient would work well on my igepv2 board. Sep 24 14:06:05 jo-erlend, yes you will usually have to rebuild packages Sep 24 14:06:29 and remember to send all your patches back upstream to maemo Sep 24 14:09:06 is there a physics toy that is a box with stuff inside that reacts to the accelerometers like it's a real box with loose stuff inside? Sep 24 14:10:34 TiagoTiago, theres a few, try liqflow for similar, gas balls has balls which touch the sides and fluid dynamics Sep 24 14:11:19 the scale is off, and the whole fluid simulation makes things not move quite realistic Sep 24 14:11:35 TiagoTiago, which scale? Sep 24 14:11:53 i mean, it's realistic for liquid but not for air Sep 24 14:12:12 then make one Sep 24 14:12:17 box2d is around somewhere Sep 24 14:12:44 either the time or the physical scale, it doesn't look real for the size on screen Sep 24 14:12:58 ok TiagoTiago which doesnt look real Sep 24 14:14:05 was that a question? Sep 24 14:14:23 yes, which application are you actually talking about? Sep 24 14:15:27 gas balls in some aspects and liqflow in others, and both in some as well Sep 24 14:16:02 I guess you just want to tweak and play around with stuff Sep 24 14:16:14 yeah Sep 24 14:16:52 :) understood entirely Sep 24 14:16:55 hey tekojo \o Sep 24 14:17:07 hi lcuk Sep 24 14:18:28 tekojo, did you go to the meego night the other day? Sep 24 14:18:57 lcuk: no, bad timing plus I was coming down with a flu Sep 24 14:19:07 err, cold that Sep 24 14:19:08 os Sep 24 14:19:10 eep, thats not good, I hope you stayed off IRC too Sep 24 14:19:37 brb Sep 24 14:19:45 * lcuk updates his virus checker and then emails some tissues Sep 24 14:19:59 thanks, getting better already :) Sep 24 14:21:09 :O I've lost an n900 Sep 24 14:21:29 * MohammadAG51 stole it Sep 24 14:21:42 you bastard, give it back Sep 24 14:21:53 NEVAR!!! Sep 24 14:22:07 i ate it Sep 24 14:22:09 I want 100kgs of bacon Sep 24 14:22:11 back in reality i found it again, it was hiding under my n810 Sep 24 14:22:25 * MohammadAG51 finds PR1.4 on the N900 Sep 24 14:22:31 I want 10000kgs of bacon!!! Sep 24 14:22:47 we all do Sep 24 14:22:50 share Sep 24 14:27:35 i gotta go, cya Sep 24 14:28:15 MohammadAG51, share the bacon Sep 24 14:31:28 hi all Sep 24 14:31:54 http://baconbaconbacon.tumblr.com/ Sep 24 14:37:42 Who wants to get stabbed? Sep 24 14:37:57 can i drink myself senseless first? Sep 24 14:38:27 Stskeeps, that will then be messy Sep 24 14:38:30 the beer will leak out Sep 24 14:39:16 * w00t considers alcohol Sep 24 14:41:27 w00t: or sleep Sep 24 14:41:35 sleep is overrated Sep 24 14:41:58 w00t_, do sauna and booze, then you will sleep better Sep 24 14:42:01 agreed :p Sep 24 14:42:07 * MohammadAG51 sleeps 5 hours now Sep 24 14:42:34 MohammadAG51 but you don't drink Sep 24 14:42:59 He drinks C-Plus. Leave him alone. Sep 24 14:43:01 does it matter? Sep 24 14:44:13 Sleep sounds really nice right now. Sep 24 14:44:30 and it's only 1045 Sep 24 14:44:33 Hi, did up a wrong pack to extras-devel, is there a way to remove it ? Sep 24 14:45:23 OptX, you have to physically go to the server. Sep 24 14:45:30 OptX re up the god pack Sep 24 14:45:36 or ask the admins Sep 24 14:46:14 Only I have access to "the God pack". Sep 24 14:46:23 lol Sep 24 14:46:41 I require a banana cognac to fix your problem. Sep 24 14:46:50 hum ... God pack should depends on christianism ... i will vote thumb down Sep 24 14:47:10 :) Sep 24 14:47:11 give him bacon! Sep 24 14:47:37 cant re up the pack, the one i need has lower version :( Sep 24 14:47:44 MORE BACON ON #maemo! Sep 24 14:47:55 ~bacon Sep 24 14:47:55 somebody said bacon was a filling substance which will make you even fatter than you already are... Take my advice, bacon is a food for the gods or for underweight models such as that McBeal chick... Sep 24 14:48:16 OptX, if the one you need is already on maemo you can coerce apt or dpkg to give older version Sep 24 14:48:25 mmmmm bacon Sep 24 14:48:25 God package should depends on bacon too ? Sep 24 14:48:35 of course Sep 24 14:48:38 everything should depend on bacon Sep 24 14:48:50 yes, but package bacon will not fit on the internal rootfs :( Sep 24 14:48:55 it needed optifying first Sep 24 14:48:57 burritos don't depend on bacon. Sep 24 14:49:01 which involved many sandwiches Sep 24 14:49:05 lcuk this one i need is not there, looks like i have to as a admin ... Sep 24 14:49:06 lcuk: bacon fits everywhere Sep 24 14:49:18 but best im mouth Sep 24 14:50:04 That's what she said. Sep 24 14:50:09 hrhr Sep 24 14:50:44 hrhr is a racist term. Sep 24 14:51:42 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62838 Sep 24 14:55:01 raster: was it tasty at least? :-D Sep 24 14:58:25 h4waii racist term ... did not know that :( Sep 24 14:59:09 Using BUILD_ROOT=/OBS.worker/root10/.mount Using BUILD_ARCH=i586:i486:i386 Doing xen build in /OBS.worker/root10/root wml0252 started "build python-qt4.spec" at Fri Sep 24 17:56:04 EEST 2010. Building python-qt4 for project 'home:khertan' repository 'MeeGo_1.0_Core' arch 'i586' srcmd5 'b4ac322a3e0376161192d26154d22715' processing specfile /OBS.worker/root10/.build-srcdir/python-qt4.spec ... running changelog2spec --target r Sep 24 14:59:13 oups sorry Sep 24 15:00:40 OptX - just kidding dude :P Sep 24 15:04:19 h4waii: bs . how do you reckon hrhr is racist? Sep 24 15:04:27 hmm, mount.cifs seems not to care about uid= and gid= options :S Sep 24 15:07:02 jpinx-eeepc - I said I was kidding. Cool it, professor. Sep 24 15:08:32 jpinx-eeepc it's bad word in african language Sep 24 15:08:47 h4waii: yea - saw that as I hit return ;) no problem :) Sep 24 15:09:04 Hello! I'm trying to build modules for my N900. Is it possible to build a module that matches the currently running kernel? I'm using the "power" kernel currently. Sep 24 15:10:10 daleglass i think so Sep 24 15:10:14 why not Sep 24 15:15:47 anyone got a smb share mounted so that the user user can access it? Sep 24 15:16:13 does anyone know of an application menu alternative...something like a start menu the old maemo used to have... Sep 24 15:17:05 rainbird, No. Try AppMeFo for some folder customization. Sep 24 15:17:11 <_jacktheripper> my n900 doesn't detect it's connected through USB (doesn't even start charging) until a reboot. any ideas ? :S Sep 24 15:17:17 aaay, got it Sep 24 15:17:18 daleglass: Just make sure /lib/modules/` uname -r`/build points to the corresponding kernel headers and add EXTRAVERSION=NAME, where NAME stands for the powerkernel version you use. Sep 24 15:17:35 thanks h4waii, I already have that, thats the best I can get Sep 24 15:18:37 daleglass: A very simple makefile, http://pastebin.com/2wSJxCwG Sep 24 15:20:12 * DocScrutinizer mumbles "depmod" Sep 24 15:20:43 anyone got GrimWepa? Sep 24 15:20:47 _jacktheripper, hmm and when it reboots, its able to detect that its connected to USB easily regardless if its going through a charger or another device capable of being USB host? Sep 24 15:21:12 rainbird - it's on the google code page. Sep 24 15:21:15 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, yep Sep 24 15:21:16 tobis87: thanks, will give it a try Sep 24 15:21:23 :) Sep 24 15:21:35 daleglass: you heard my mumbling? :-) Sep 24 15:21:39 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, and MyDocs isn't in-use. I just checked. Sep 24 15:21:43 daleglass: Do you use scratchbox? Which module do you need? Sep 24 15:22:03 _jacktheripper, it might be an issue with lag, it could be that the CPU gets overloaded.. there could be various reasons for this Sep 24 15:22:07 tobis87: scratchbox, trying to build compcache Sep 24 15:22:28 DocScrutinizer: yeah, but don't see how would depmod do it Sep 24 15:22:44 daleglass: I have got it compiled, I will paste the makefile Sep 24 15:23:04 it won't 'do it', you'll just probably want to run depmod -a after copying your new module to N900 Sep 24 15:23:58 daleglass: I always tend to forget about it, so that's why I mentioned it Sep 24 15:23:59 DocScrutinizer: that won't do it. The symbol versions in the module I got don't match with the kernel on the device (the version is the same) Sep 24 15:24:41 so you'll need to compile the source with your preferred kernel Sep 24 15:24:48 daleglass: I'm well aware of that issue you're facing. I didn't suggest depmod's a way to fix it Sep 24 15:25:12 DocScrutinizer: aha, misunderstood then Sep 24 15:25:21 daleglass: modprobe --force might, though Sep 24 15:25:29 daleglass: Not much difference to the original http://pastebin.com/kEc6cMEf , replace omap1 with the kernel name and strip the module after you compiled it (objcopy --strip-debug) Sep 24 15:26:21 then copy it to /lib/modules/2.6.28-name/ and run as DocScrutinizer said depmod -ae Sep 24 15:26:51 umm, wasn't that called 'strip' simply, in former times? Sep 24 15:27:41 DocScrutinizer: Not for kernel modules, there is even a difference between strip-debug and strip-unneeded Sep 24 15:28:12 tobis87: aah, I see Sep 24 15:29:47 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, CPU usage increases just a tiny little bit when I connect. Could I somehow make the device spit an error ? there's nothing in dmesg. Sep 24 15:30:22 qwerty Sep 24 15:30:29 oopps :) Sep 24 15:30:55 _jacktheripper, but in your current n900 you haven't rebooted and its meant to show where it doesn't get detected as charging right? Sep 24 15:31:08 daleglass: And make sure you use the correct headers. You might have to extract the power kernel headers and create a link to it. So the module gets compiled with the correct headers. Sep 24 15:31:27 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, yes. right. Sep 24 15:31:33 tobis87: cool, thanks :-) I suppose that means you tried it then. Does it make a big difference? Sep 24 15:31:57 _jacktheripper, probably a hardware issue heh, running stock kernel? Sep 24 15:32:01 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, actually it starts charging when connected to the charger. But not when connected to my laptop. Sep 24 15:32:05 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, titan's Sep 24 15:32:56 _jacktheripper, it might be issue with negotiation with host between laptop and n900 Sep 24 15:32:59 daleglass: No, I have compiled modules on the n900 and only with the stock kernel. But there shouldn't be a difference, you could also replace /lib/modules/$(shell uname -r)/build with /path/to/the/extracted/headers Sep 24 15:33:15 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, it probably is. :( Sep 24 15:33:18 _jacktheripper, ahh ok, yeah I think this is somewhat an issue for some of us whom use titan's kernel Sep 24 15:33:40 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, so it happened before ? Sep 24 15:34:05 tobis87: I mean performance with compcache installed Sep 24 15:34:51 _jacktheripper, I have a similar issue to that but only when I connect to the charger, sometimes it will receive power but other times it won't and I have to unplug + plug it back in again Sep 24 15:35:16 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, yes, that happens to me too. Sep 24 15:36:24 _jacktheripper, I haven't personally had issue with it plugging into my desktop, and my laptops are all currently usb1.1 which aren't handy for charging n900 Sep 24 15:37:27 Anyone currently running NFSv4 on n900? Sep 24 15:38:02 I've got kernel support, but get "wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock ..." error when trying to mount with -t nfs4 Sep 24 15:39:01 dsg: that usually means you're missing nfsutils or portmap, IIRC Sep 24 15:39:46 I have both, but possibly not the right version I guess Sep 24 15:39:57 hmm Sep 24 15:40:17 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, it's already plugged in and I plug it out, the screen lights up o.O Sep 24 15:40:57 _jacktheripper, yup that's what happens, but when that happened to me I plug it back onto charger and I get the banner that says its charging Sep 24 15:41:33 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, that happens to me with the laptop too. Except it doesn't get fixed if I plug out and in. Sep 24 15:41:44 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, I'll just restart and forget about it :S Sep 24 15:42:05 daleglass: You will not gain much memory from it, but I consider it as a better choice than swapping everything to disk. My best experience is 32MB with the mmcblk0p3 as backing store. Sep 24 15:42:33 daleglass: Using the drive as backingstore means that pages which can't be compressed are written to the disk. And since the n900 always swaps out, the first programs which run idle (browser) are still keept compressed in memory. Sep 24 15:42:41 _jacktheripper, I'd say if you are curious you can compile usb as driver and enable verbose outputting.. that plus sysklogd for example may help Sep 24 15:43:26 <_jacktheripper> and I was wondering why there was no output. Sep 24 15:43:54 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, can the module be replaced without a reboot ? Sep 24 15:44:41 daleglass: And reduce the swapiness to 50 Sep 24 15:45:16 <_jacktheripper> psycho_oreos, I think I have to recompile the whole kernel. nvm Sep 24 15:45:26 _jacktheripper, that I don't know lol, afaik the usb module was compiled into the kernel rather than compiled as a kernel loadable module.. and if it is, you can't simply put a compiled usb kernel object and load it when its already incorporated Sep 24 15:48:38 psycho_oreos: usb driver is monolithic. can't go module. Sep 24 15:49:35 does grimwepa work without aircrack etc installed or does it rely on it... Sep 24 15:49:38 DocScrutinizer, bah oh well lol, thought it would be interesting if one could debug it Sep 24 15:49:55 grimwepa depends on aircrack-ng Sep 24 15:50:11 thought so, thnks Sep 24 15:50:19 when no charging on USB host, you probably fail on ENUM, so the charger sw doesn't know how much current is available Sep 24 15:51:20 might be caused by broken cable, broken N900 USB receptacle, or any host side issue Sep 24 15:51:39 fastcharger detect also is via D+/- short of USB Sep 24 15:52:05 hmm Sep 24 15:52:14 so if the receptacle has a broken pin on either D+ or D- it won't detect wallcharger as well Sep 24 15:52:41 * DocScrutinizer waves Sep 24 15:53:06 yeah I wouldn't suspect it would be receptacle that would be broken lol, it seems to be working on both jacktheripper as well as mine, it just needs to re-detect Sep 24 15:53:49 just tried umounting MyDocs Sep 24 15:53:53 'device or resource busy' Sep 24 15:53:56 aiui jacktheripper has a persistent problem now, with both wallcharger and host Sep 24 15:54:44 jacktheripper: will your host show any logs in syslog, when plugging in the N900? Sep 24 15:54:59 and no, the wallcharger works and the laptop works connection works after a reboot Sep 24 15:55:01 it's windows :D Sep 24 15:55:21 aah, k. A reboot won't fix the receptacle :-P Sep 24 15:55:32 it did before :P Sep 24 15:55:44 cya Sep 24 15:55:45 But a reboot will always fix windows Sep 24 15:55:54 a reboot of the N900 Sep 24 15:56:01 * MohammadAG51 looks at "Missing system file: hal.dll" Sep 24 15:56:15 I fixed windows by removing a system file and rebooting :) Sep 24 15:56:41 did it even boot without hal.dll ? :D Sep 24 15:56:52 or that's how you *fixed* it ? Sep 24 15:57:08 ultimate fix for windoes is to remove everything from C: Sep 24 15:57:32 DocScrutinizer: it doesn't give you the chance to do so Sep 24 15:57:55 can I know what's preventing MyDocs from unmounting ? Sep 24 15:58:15 lsof|grep MyDocs Sep 24 15:58:43 nothing. While umount says "device or resource busy" Sep 24 15:59:21 that's definitely why connecting to the laptop isn't working. Sep 24 16:01:53 I can just force umount it and it'd work, but that'd ruin the crime scene :D Sep 24 16:02:31 hmm, not really. Just watch which processes will barf Sep 24 16:02:50 bme-rx51. Tried stopping and starting using upstart. Nothing changed. Sep 24 16:02:54 jacktheripper: rd /s /q c:\ should be the same as rm -rf / , but have not tried it. Sep 24 16:03:51 jacktheripper: bme shouldn't interfere with MyDocs Sep 24 16:03:57 tobis87: windows would say "file in use" on most files in C:\Windows. Plus, it's not a windows problem. Cut the windows sarcasm :P It's not too bad. Sep 24 16:04:14 anyway a 'stop bme' should do _something_ Sep 24 16:04:42 well yes, it doesn't charge through the wallcharger. But after a start it works again. No net changes Sep 24 16:05:29 hmm, bme borks then. did you try 'stop bme; start bme' ? Sep 24 16:05:48 I did. Sep 24 16:06:18 I think powerkernel has some driver for bq27200 that kills bme Sep 24 16:06:38 hmm bme stays on after a 'start bme' Sep 24 16:06:44 you need to modprobe -r it to make bme happy, iirc Sep 24 16:06:50 I'll just try force umounting MyDocs now. Sep 24 16:06:53 ah Sep 24 16:07:44 "umount: cannot forcibly umount /home/user/MyDocs: Device or resource busy" :/ Sep 24 16:08:09 if bme is started before the bq27200 module gets modprobed, then it'll probably work Sep 24 16:08:38 that's why a reboot fixes things for you Sep 24 16:09:03 what's the module name ? Sep 24 16:09:21 bq27200 doesn't 'exist' here Sep 24 16:09:26 lsmod|grep 27 Sep 24 16:09:35 lsmod|grep bq Sep 24 16:09:48 no output Sep 24 16:09:50 sorry, really have to leave now Sep 24 16:09:55 o/ Sep 24 16:10:03 okay, thanks for the help, c ya. Sep 24 16:12:07 Hi, noticed the end of your conversation. Sep 24 16:12:20 You are trying to umount MyDocs? Sep 24 16:13:15 kwtm: yes Sep 24 16:13:38 jacktheripper: Are you trying to figure out what process is keeping MyDocs open, or do you already know? Sep 24 16:13:51 I'm just using my general Linux knowledge here; I'm a n900 noob, too. Sep 24 16:14:12 kwtm: I'm trying to figure it out, lsof outputs nothing, and MyDocs is 'busy'. Sep 24 16:14:24 jacktheripper: Are you using lsof as root? Sep 24 16:14:31 root ssh yes Sep 24 16:15:04 Okay, I'm out of ideas, then. :P Hmm... let this percolate for a while. Sep 24 16:15:17 haha Sep 24 16:15:29 Is it a showstopper? I mean, are you at the point where you're going to reflash? Sep 24 16:16:15 kwtm: no. The whole problem was in getting my windows box to recognize there's something connected to it. It happened before, and after a reboot it was fixed. Now I'm trying to figure out why it's not connecting. Sep 24 16:16:22 (it doesn't even start charging) Sep 24 16:16:34 (while it does through the wallcharger) Sep 24 16:19:21 fuser Sep 24 16:21:15 doesn't work either Sep 24 16:38:06 "By just pressing the magic AI button, you get a simple menu, letting you literally switch between several OS running at the same time on the same machine on a single processor. Instant-play, you can take the most of each OS, which means in our case: our AIOS, Android, and Ubuntu. Best of all, you can share your documents between those side-by-side instances." http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/aios.htm Sep 24 16:38:13 hmmmmm Sep 24 16:40:23 yea- right - just use a chroot ;) Sep 24 16:41:50 heh Sep 24 16:42:20 it's either that or xen Sep 24 16:42:45 I haven't tried xen on the n900 - will it work? Sep 24 16:42:58 "no performance loss" I don't think that's xen... Sep 24 16:43:03 heh Sep 24 16:43:08 doesn't xen need hardware virtualization support? Sep 24 16:43:14 running 5 kernels at the same time is l33t Sep 24 16:43:17 wmarone: it does Sep 24 16:43:22 no, wait Sep 24 16:43:23 i'm not usre Sep 24 16:43:24 sure Sep 24 16:43:33 kerio, one kernel Sep 24 16:43:39 cause I don't think I want to go back to pure software virtualization :) Sep 24 16:44:05 "All OS are running on the 2.6.32 Linux kernel, and got several optimizations to take benefits of the advanced instructions available in the chipset. Sep 24 16:44:07 yeah, xen needs hw support *and* x86 Sep 24 16:44:07 " Sep 24 16:44:39 MNZ: fancy wording for "it's just one kernel running that we supply with multiple chroots with mountbinds to access the same home" Sep 24 16:44:42 ah, if it requires x86 then that might explain the rise of KVM (assuming it isn't arch dependent.) Sep 24 16:45:10 hmm...I think you don't need vt for xen unless you want to run something like windows Sep 24 16:45:27 kerio, pretty much eh Sep 24 16:45:27 usually the guests are linux modified for xen Sep 24 16:45:30 pupnik: Interesting, or some kind of hypervisitor. But a hypervisitor does not have hw accel on arm. And the video wouldn't be that smooth in software then. A chroot with ubuntu and android, which would than be the main system? Does android not need a modified kernel. Sep 24 16:45:40 hypervisor* Sep 24 16:45:42 LXC/OpenVZ, n00bs Sep 24 16:45:42 ;) Sep 24 16:45:46 tobis87: depends on the hardware, of course Sep 24 16:45:51 but yeah, it's just a single kernel Sep 24 16:45:58 has ARM indicated future support for hardware virtualization? Sep 24 16:46:03 I think openvz as well Sep 24 16:46:06 that runs on a personalized distro with huge fancy buttons to load the different chroots :) Sep 24 16:46:13 single kernel then it's prolly openvz Sep 24 16:46:34 wmarone: KVM == hardware virtualization (x86) Sep 24 16:46:38 The latest major step, I have read about is that arm will support more than 4gb ram. Sep 24 16:47:11 tobis87: why? they don't even have 2 GB RAM yet Sep 24 16:47:15 tobis87: but where to plug it into the hardware ? Sep 24 16:47:43 but without 64-bit registers, i will look for the article... Sep 24 16:49:30 yeah a15 has a 48bit pae-like scheme going on Sep 24 16:52:10 many, many apps don't need 4G of data. Sep 24 16:52:51 SpeedEvil: do any? really? Sep 24 16:52:57 It also introduces a hypervisor extension http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&ie=UTF8&langpair=auto|en&u=http://www.heise.de/ct/meldung/ARM-knackt-die-4-GByte-Grenze-1066389.html Sep 24 16:53:08 some large simulations. Sep 24 16:53:16 databases. Sep 24 16:53:22 pupnik, there was a video playing before the switcharoo wasnt there? Sep 24 16:54:13 The number of apps that actually would be significantly complexified by multiple 2G address spaces if they do need >4G is much smaller still Sep 24 16:54:21 sorry lcuk i don't know what you refer-to Sep 24 16:54:55 the AI OS switching Sep 24 16:55:22 and there was a video playing before the switcharoo? Sep 24 17:16:40 hi Sep 24 17:17:12 is there a good texteditor for maemo available? gui based? Sep 24 17:17:37 khteditor Sep 24 17:17:48 i think emacs works, and they got it outputing to the lcd screen nowadays Sep 24 17:17:52 pygtkeditor Sep 24 17:18:05 a holy way! Sep 24 17:18:08 aha Sep 24 17:18:18 cool thanks Sep 24 17:18:34 i prefer a qt based gui Sep 24 17:19:07 btw, who can remove my cloak? Sep 24 17:19:17 and congratulations to new council :) Sep 24 17:19:21 I prefer a functional UI Sep 24 17:19:31 whatever holy bible it comes from Sep 24 17:19:48 true Sep 24 17:20:08 javispedro: join #freenode and ask for cloak removal Sep 24 17:21:16 DocScrutinizer, thanks Sep 24 17:22:23 DocScrutinizer51, its not removal, its transfer - x-fade has to dry clean it and pass it onto the new council Sep 24 17:23:07 lcuk: a cloak isn't transferable Sep 24 17:23:22 like a light sabre then, i get you. Sep 24 17:23:30 HELO javispedro Sep 24 17:23:35 heya RST38h Sep 24 17:23:41 how is your suffering tonight? Sep 24 17:24:05 bank holiday today :) Sep 24 17:24:19 ah Sep 24 17:24:36 Who got elected to the council btw? Sep 24 17:24:42 now who's new council? fired my vote and forgot Sep 24 17:26:20 repeating: attila, jaffa Sep 24 17:26:36 Congratulations to the all new #Maemo Council: @timsamoff @RevdKathy @andreagrandi @jaffa2 @achipa Sep 24 17:26:52 new entries: timsamoff, andy80, and revdkathy afaik Sep 24 17:26:53 thanks lcuk Sep 24 17:27:00 aha, thanks Sep 24 17:27:24 What are your thoughts on Peter Skillman's joining Nokia? Sep 24 17:28:00 thanks :-) Sep 24 17:28:19 cheers to new council Sep 24 17:29:55 pupnik: I would wait for 6 months Sep 24 17:30:25 let's hope he can bring in some of that "goodness" from palm's golden age. Sep 24 17:30:34 and not a 64 KB record limit =) Sep 24 17:30:36 pupnik: There is a good chance they will give him the holy cross of Symbian^n and tell him to carry it to his eventual Golgopha Sep 24 17:31:52 maemo /nokia is a big topic in 'the linux action show' Sep 24 17:33:30 hey opdf2 Sep 24 17:33:31 er.. Sep 24 17:33:33 hey OptX Sep 24 17:33:57 OptX: is the build-depends trick working? Sep 24 17:35:21 hmm windows phone 7 is quite a challenger it looks Sep 24 17:36:44 lcuk: does that mean I don't have to fear DocScrutinizer's anti-tonal anti-Gentoo tyranny⁇? Sep 24 17:37:25 Anti-tonal? Sep 24 17:37:30 He's against dominant harmony? Sep 24 17:37:39 derf: Tonal number system Sep 24 17:37:53 a challenger to my tolerance and patience? Sep 24 17:37:54 luke-jr, hm? Sep 24 17:38:09 lcuk: does DocScrutinizer lose ops? :P Sep 24 17:38:38 hm, not yet at least Sep 24 17:39:20 he's already warming up the ban hammer. Sep 24 17:40:12 * luke-jr wonders what happens if he sets username to fuchs and a RDNS to dns.kernelconcepts.de <.< Sep 24 17:40:40 what'd you expect? Sep 24 17:40:54 dunno, ChanServ has that hostmask as +o Sep 24 17:42:18 luke-jr: rdns has to resolve back to your ip Sep 24 17:42:26 Stskeeps: does it? Sep 24 17:42:32 I've seen some pretty weird RDNS on freenode Sep 24 17:42:39 luke-jr: you still have to be registered to fuchs account Sep 24 17:43:09 DocScrutinizer51: username hostmask is not related to NickServ accounts Sep 24 17:43:21 apt-get install android_player Sep 24 17:43:23 but FreeNode abandoned the n= syntax, so maybe it's safe Sep 24 17:43:45 luke-jr: chanserv doesn't op nonregistered users Sep 24 17:44:05 DocScrutinizer51: well then I just use my present nick and identify Sep 24 17:44:17 the +o hostmask doesn't care what nick/user Sep 24 17:44:43 yep Sep 24 17:44:49 http://www.callingallinnovators.com/10M/ yet another flimsy app contest, this time it doesn't even have maemo/meego/n900 category Sep 24 17:45:12 flimsy? Sep 24 17:45:24 why would it, the first words of the competition are "N8 Contest" Sep 24 17:45:34 lol Sep 24 17:45:50 if you can write a N8 emulator for the N900 i'm sure you could win the prize Sep 24 17:46:13 kerio, if you write a full complete N8 emulator I will hug you :) Sep 24 17:46:33 "Yo dawg, I heard you liked nokias, so I put a nokia inside your nokia" Sep 24 17:46:44 roffle. Sep 24 17:47:08 That's what it was like when I was in a Nokia RV Sep 24 17:47:09 lcuk: sure, i'll start working on the 12MPX camera emulator Sep 24 17:47:23 kerio, no need Sep 24 17:47:26 just has to work Sep 24 17:47:38 whilst you are at it, emulate the older ones as well :P Sep 24 17:48:21 i wanna play Snake 2 Sep 24 17:48:23 ;_; Sep 24 17:49:52 kerio, original snake and b&w display emulated Sep 24 17:49:59 where? Sep 24 17:50:32 in my head at the moment, but I would prefer them on Ovi Sep 24 17:50:34 http://liqbase.net/liq.20100830_nokia3210.png Sep 24 17:50:45 lol Sep 24 17:50:57 the 3310 is way better Sep 24 17:51:01 pfft snake Sep 24 17:51:02 er, the 3330 Sep 24 17:51:06 why not port Armagetron? Sep 24 17:51:08 lcuk: I need that Sep 24 17:51:10 hey, hi Sep 24 17:51:17 that is the best smartphone interface I have seen Sep 24 17:51:21 i want a port of sauerbraten Sep 24 17:51:33 i want to use telnet in n900 Sep 24 17:51:43 njain: so install it Sep 24 17:51:49 lol Sep 24 17:51:59 no, don't. telnet is broken on N900 Sep 24 17:52:04 through app-manager? Sep 24 17:52:06 telnet is broken Sep 24 17:52:06 huh? Sep 24 17:52:07 there's no secure/sane way to use it Sep 24 17:52:08 don't use it Sep 24 17:52:19 it was designed for a direct dialin connection Sep 24 17:52:28 why? Sep 24 17:52:29 not a shared wireless/ethernet link Sep 24 17:52:31 wmarone, indeed - if nokia could open the back catalog of *working* simulated original phones it would be cool Sep 24 17:52:41 especially if you could dial and send SMSes etc with them as well Sep 24 17:52:42 i mean how come..? Sep 24 17:53:12 njain: because SSH is superior in every way Sep 24 17:53:14 Meego OldSkool UX :D Sep 24 17:53:21 njain: it was designed for 1960s, not 2010s Sep 24 17:53:23 what are my options? Sep 24 17:53:28 njain: SSH Sep 24 17:55:11 it shows ssh:ON but issuing ssh ip on terminal says ssh not installed.. Sep 24 17:55:25 … Sep 24 17:55:58 are you wanting to ssh in or out? Sep 24 17:56:12 ssh in that ip Sep 24 17:56:31 wd making no sense Sep 24 17:56:35 ill ask again Sep 24 17:56:49 i am on a mobile connection.. Sep 24 17:56:50 are you using the device to ssh out somewhere else, or trying to ssh from somewhere else into the device? Sep 24 17:57:01 yes Sep 24 17:57:08 LOL Sep 24 17:57:10 fail Sep 24 17:57:11 you cant answer an either/or question with "yes" Sep 24 17:57:14 its one or the other. Sep 24 17:57:21 i am sshing out somewhere else Sep 24 17:57:31 have you installed the ssh client then? Sep 24 17:57:37 installing the openssh server wont help you Sep 24 17:57:48 which it sounds like you've installed Sep 24 17:58:04 yeah i realised either or later after sending yes.. Sep 24 17:58:49 so openssh server helps me to ssh in my device from somewhere else? Sep 24 17:59:04 yes Sep 24 17:59:14 ok. Sep 24 17:59:23 and for ssh out? Sep 24 17:59:32 you need the ssh client. Sep 24 17:59:40 yeah. Sep 24 17:59:54 what is this precisely? Sep 24 18:01:12 btw, i am loving my n900 thanks to all the people who brought it together.. Sep 24 18:01:28 its just what I wanted.. Sep 24 18:01:56 things less could be developed! Sep 24 18:03:53 sshclient suggestions? Sep 24 18:04:07 open-ssh :) Sep 24 18:05:44 openssh-client :) Sep 24 18:05:53 thanks. Sep 24 18:06:39 MohammadAG, true Sep 24 18:07:00 njain: :-D Sep 24 18:07:21 Khertan's here :D Sep 24 18:07:49 khteditor is awesome, but it fails to start for python files with no extension :) Sep 24 18:08:29 any ideas on how I would go about running a certain action after the value of a GtkScale has stabilized (ie, it hasn't changed for say 1 second) without killing the resources too much? Sep 24 18:09:53 you can create a timer than only fires once Sep 24 18:10:09 javispedro, create it when? Sep 24 18:10:33 everytime the user moves the slider Sep 24 18:11:11 problem is the only signal available is value-changed which fires several tens of times per second for small drag of the slider Sep 24 18:11:32 it will result in a whole bunch of create/destroy until user stops effing around Sep 24 18:12:21 bleh I can't think of another way, and #gtk+ suggested the same. nvm Sep 24 18:12:25 so, store tick count in some var when the event fires, create timer if not created yet Sep 24 18:12:41 now how do I ssh out to say an address 1.2.3.4 Sep 24 18:12:43 when timer fires, if last tick > threshold, do_hard_stuff() then delete timer Sep 24 18:12:44 : Sep 24 18:13:00 if last_tick < threshold, return TRUE so that timer fires again Sep 24 18:13:07 i installed the client. Sep 24 18:13:49 javispedro, thanks that sounds good enough. It would be optimal if there were start-drag/stop-drag signals but this will do Sep 24 18:14:16 MNZ: actually I was wondering I remember I saw that once -- but I've opened devhelp to check and can't find it right now Sep 24 18:14:22 so it might have been some other toolkit :P Sep 24 18:17:17 ah Sep 24 18:17:35 MNZ: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkRange.html#gtk-range-set-update-policy Sep 24 18:17:54 found it :) ^^ Sep 24 18:18:08 back Sep 24 18:18:21 javispedro, thanks a lot! perfect :D Sep 24 18:19:44 MNZ: I wonder how hard and expensive it'd be to update expiry time of an already instantiated timer Sep 24 18:20:26 on glib quite, afaik. Sep 24 18:21:11 well I couldn't find a way to update expiry time Sep 24 18:21:38 where 'a way' = api and not some internals vodoo Sep 24 18:22:04 consider that the underlying implementation is probably using poll Sep 24 18:22:14 mmm, then prolly approach to wind up timer on very first change event, and just have a local var that holds timestamp of last event, and compare that var on timer expiry and act accordingly, is the better one Sep 24 18:22:17 after you've called poll with a large timeout (which would be the sane thing) Sep 24 18:22:34 DocScrutinizer, it's already solved with the update policy Sep 24 18:22:50 "GTK_UPDATE_DELAYED means that the value will be updated after a brief timeout where no slider motion occurs" just perfect Sep 24 18:23:16 apparently apple actually sued because they have a patent that says only apple can multitask apps on a phone.... Sep 24 18:23:25 sued who? Sep 24 18:23:26 MNZ: :-D Sep 24 18:23:49 hello Sep 24 18:23:52 sued whom? Sep 24 18:23:52 dunno javispedro - watching the 'linux action show' javispedro Sep 24 18:24:18 maybe it's part of the HTC suit Sep 24 18:24:34 apparently palm has a multitasking patent too Sep 24 18:24:39 pupnik: WTF - I thought apple is the only one that CAN NOT :-P Sep 24 18:25:04 pupnik: quite reasonable, as both palm and apple share a quite similar "multitasking" implementation :D Sep 24 18:25:18 (older palm, I mean. not the webos one) Sep 24 18:25:23 previous art. Sep 24 18:25:39 I'll patent shitting X-P Sep 24 18:25:40 since nokia 7650 if not earlier Sep 24 18:26:08 Doc: there is prior art to that as well Sep 24 18:26:22 art? LOL! Sep 24 18:26:35 there's always prior shit. Sep 24 18:26:44 rotfl Sep 24 18:27:31 unbelievable Sep 24 18:28:12 reading any patent tends to evoke that feeling Sep 24 18:29:04 i'm happy htc countersued Sep 24 18:29:13 There are some actually inventive patents. Sep 24 18:29:15 wait until you see my patent on inflatable penguins Sep 24 18:29:48 RST38h I don't want to know where you blow to inflate them Sep 24 18:29:53 But simply solving a problem you happen to be the first one to hit in the obvious way should never, ever be patentable. Sep 24 18:29:59 pupnik: a typical battle of wood with weevil Sep 24 18:30:13 heh Sep 24 18:30:21 Revd: Should have asked about *applications* instead... Sep 24 18:30:41 hey RevdKathy, congrats! :) Sep 24 18:30:56 Thanks javispedro :) Sep 24 18:31:00 * SpeedEvil for one welcomes our new overlordess. Sep 24 18:31:10 Overmistress? Overlady? Sep 24 18:31:15 * SpeedEvil is confused. Sep 24 18:31:25 I'm no-on's new overlord(ess) Sep 24 18:31:52 realisticly, Apple's "multitasking" is probably ideal for a handheld Sep 24 18:31:54 prevents poorly designed apps from wasting battery Sep 24 18:32:09 luke-jr__: the weird part is Sep 24 18:32:25 that usually handheld OS implementing such multitasking "win" their generation' OS wars. Sep 24 18:32:27 anyone would think the app store had some kind of draconian approval process that could weed out problems like that Sep 24 18:32:29 and it prevents properly designed apps from actually multitasking Sep 24 18:32:30 but then again, I also consider Apple's "multitasking" to be obvious Sep 24 18:32:31 see palmos vs winmo Sep 24 18:32:36 see iphone vs the rest Sep 24 18:32:46 nidO: exactly Sep 24 18:33:02 javispedro: that's marketting, not quality Sep 24 18:33:04 :p Sep 24 18:33:16 luke-jr__: palmos -- marketing?? O.o Sep 24 18:35:15 after 8 years with it I've come to find its multitasking model quite tiresome. Sep 24 18:35:34 * RST38h has not figured out how iphone multitasking works Sep 24 18:35:40 how do I switch between apps anyway? Sep 24 18:35:43 RST38h: you used palmos? :) Sep 24 18:35:54 javispedro: thankfully, no. well, a bit Sep 24 18:36:02 aaah, palmos... Sep 24 18:36:06 so... Sep 24 18:36:13 best calendaring solution ever Sep 24 18:36:15 it works not unlike palmos5+a zlauncher look-alike. Sep 24 18:36:16 how do I add a key for apt to trust? Sep 24 18:36:37 MohammadAG: install apt-key, or use your desktop to try to understand what apt-key does? Sep 24 18:36:56 MohammadAG, in a very idiotic way Sep 24 18:37:09 I made a note once, because it's impossible to remember: sudo apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys XXXXXXXX Sep 24 18:37:09 apt-key is preinstalled Sep 24 18:37:19 let me rephrase, what files do I need to use with apt-key? Sep 24 18:37:25 javispedro:so, when I start an app and want to go to the iphone's app menu without stopping the app, what do I do? Sep 24 18:37:31 no files, if you trust the key servers Sep 24 18:37:44 RST38h: you can't. the app decides if it wants to stop or not. Sep 24 18:38:30 RST38h: you just press the usual launcher hardkey and hope the app is smart enough. Sep 24 18:38:33 mgedmin, and where do I get those? Sep 24 18:38:38 this is for the community SSU Sep 24 18:38:47 MohammadAG, do you have the key ID? Sep 24 18:38:49 atm I get Sep 24 18:38:49 WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! Sep 24 18:38:49 mp-fremantle-generic-pr modest Sep 24 18:38:59 usually apt tells you Sep 24 18:39:10 I have a GPG key, the debs are signed, how do I get the key ID? Sep 24 18:39:31 man apt-key Sep 24 18:39:48 don't you see W: untrusted gpg key id XXXXX anywhere? Sep 24 18:40:08 you might see that when running apt-get update Sep 24 18:40:30 I see it, but not for my repo Sep 24 18:41:19 MohammadAG, you may want to package the repository key in a deb, like http://packages.medibuntu.org/lucid/medibuntu-keyring.html Sep 24 18:41:44 err, that's the problem, I don't know how to get the key Sep 24 18:41:48 repo noob :) Sep 24 18:41:54 more like gpg noob ;) Sep 24 18:41:58 I'm not so hot on it myself... Sep 24 18:42:06 have you got a .gpg file with the public key in it? Sep 24 18:42:18 apt-key list Sep 24 18:42:24 then you can sudo apt-key add my-keyring.gpg Sep 24 18:44:14 oh Sep 24 18:44:42 I'm assuming this is the public key? .gnupg/pubring.gpg Sep 24 18:44:55 (current dir would be ~) Sep 24 18:46:03 nope, still says WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! Sep 24 18:46:04 mp-fremantle-generic-pr modest Sep 24 18:46:49 iirc isn't that warning triggered because the repo Packages file wasn't signed? Sep 24 18:46:58 and not because of the actual package signature? Sep 24 18:47:36 what tool do you use to handle the repository, MohammadAG? reprepro? Sep 24 18:47:51 So gpg has the key, but apt-key does not have the key? Sep 24 18:48:45 javispedro, yeah Sep 24 18:48:55 http://alioth.debian.org/scm/viewvc.php/*checkout*/mirrorer/docs/manual.html?revision=HEAD&root=mirrorer#signing Sep 24 18:48:57 what is the best 'share' for video from the N900? Sep 24 18:49:27 i just uploaded 2 to flickr Sep 24 18:49:37 check if reprepro is generating the Release.gpg file Sep 24 18:50:35 gpg --list-keys and then do gpg --export fingerprint | apt-key add - where fingerprint is the pub id of your key Sep 24 18:54:11 moin Sep 24 19:06:51 pupnik: btw what is android_player? Sep 24 19:08:10 thanks javispedro :) Sep 24 19:08:59 thanks to you for the ssu :) Sep 24 19:09:57 RST38h: doesn't seem to be in the repository, or on the planet yet Sep 24 19:22:03 what a crazy n900 year it's been! Sep 24 19:23:40 tobis87: I finally figured out what I was doing wrong. D'oh! I wanted to build a module matching a kernel in the N900, so I did apt-get source kernel-power, built, and made a module against that. What I forgot is that debian packages may have a patch set in debian/ that wasn't getting applied. So of course it was a quite different kernel. Sep 24 19:24:24 daleglass: and different compiler probably Sep 24 19:24:32 no, same compiler Sep 24 19:24:46 I did check the kernel and compiler version Sep 24 19:29:43 daleglass: If you had just installed the kernel headers, you wouldn't had this problem, because the headers are packed after the kernel is compiled. Sep 24 19:32:46 :) Sep 24 19:33:12 tobis87: tried that, it said linux/module.h was missing (and indeed it's not in the linux-power-headers package) Sep 24 19:33:53 http://live.gnome.org/Rygel/N900 uPnP media server for maemo.... "Rygel" Sep 24 19:35:26 ¼!!@#***&%&&!!!FsCK!!! how would I restart recaller? it again acts up notifying me about an ongoing recording since last call, which I can't stop by any means Sep 24 19:36:25 killall hildon-desktop brought back the red icon which previously been green, but notifications continue to pop up Sep 24 19:37:13 and I can't - for the life of mine - find any process to kill Sep 24 19:38:04 and the end all be all solution of rebooting does not help? Sep 24 19:38:51 I did this 2 days ago. I'm not willing to reboot my phone every other day, just to make this fsckng recaler behave Sep 24 19:39:14 daleglass: Ok, installing the kernel package also installes includes to /usr/include/linux, these were the files which were missing. Sep 24 19:41:32 daleglass: No not the kernel package, but Linux-kernel-headers 2.6.28-20101501+0m5, this package provides the files from /usr/include Sep 24 19:42:43 >>Disable limbo if ready signals are not after home ready<< Pffft! Sep 24 19:42:54 Sep 24 19:43:08 huh? Sep 24 19:44:02 guess it's inuktitut via google translate Sep 24 19:44:32 makes sense Sep 24 19:44:36 tobis87: aha, thanks :-) I looked on my ubuntu box, the files were in the normal kernel headers package, so that left me a bit puzzled Sep 24 19:44:58 so arctic is the new elbonia? Sep 24 19:46:20 i think they call it Oulu Sep 24 19:46:58 recaller makes me want to kill N900 >:-( Sep 24 19:47:12 hi all Sep 24 19:47:24 DocScrutinizer: recaller? Sep 24 19:47:38 DocScrutinizer, I have the perfect way to kill it Sep 24 19:47:43 DocScrutinizer: you mean, the fact itdoes not recall automatically when it is buusy? Sep 24 19:48:38 WTF http://www.nu.nl/gadgets/2341248/nokia-gaat-telefoons-uitrusten-met-windows-phone-7.html Sep 24 19:48:55 people, I am trying to google for the PR1.2 upgrade guide for a while now, and google seems to have lost it-http://tinyurl.com/33u36g4 can anybody please send me the link? Sep 24 19:49:04 I need to make room on the non opt filesystems et al Sep 24 19:49:07 and etc :) Sep 24 19:49:39 http://maemo.org/packages/view/recaller/ Sep 24 19:50:00 sivang, well depends what you mean with url Sep 24 19:50:04 ShadowJK: microwave? Sep 24 19:50:09 DocScrutinizer, not quite Sep 24 19:50:18 500KV Sep 24 19:50:21 yes Sep 24 19:50:23 that Sep 24 19:50:28 ok no problem ... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-24/nokia-says-not-planning-to-add-more-software-platforms.html?cmpid=yhoo Sep 24 19:51:04 sivang, so there are two ways... clicking yes and hoping for hte best when app manager suggests you should upgrade... or flashing (which erases stuff) PR1.2 from tablets-dev.nokia.com Sep 24 19:51:11 ShadowJK: I sort of recall that there was a wiki note somewhere to help hyou overcome "upgrade cannot be done" problem Sep 24 19:51:21 oh Sep 24 19:51:27 ShadowJK: yes :) Sep 24 19:51:41 ShadowJK: the former did not succed already :) Sep 24 19:51:49 ah! I can find it in the bugreport Sep 24 19:51:53 that I filed. Sep 24 19:51:55 * sivang searches Sep 24 19:51:59 http://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting Sep 24 19:52:07 ~flashing Sep 24 19:52:08 methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 24 19:55:20 DocScrutinizer, ShadowJK : rootfs and eerything that will be erased is on the eMMC? what's that eMMC anyway in contrast to there MYDocs and /opt is stored? Sep 24 19:55:39 Yeah, emmc = MyDocs, /home, /opt Sep 24 19:55:55 So basically, back up everything. Sep 24 19:56:01 to somewhere not N900 Sep 24 19:56:38 ShadowJK: and ubifs is running on top of the ubi vol-manager on top of this eMMC? Sep 24 19:56:44 no Sep 24 19:56:44 errwut? flashing rootfs doesn't affect eMMC Sep 24 19:57:04 ubifs, rootfs, runs on a separate device Sep 24 19:57:29 rootfs is everything else except /home, /opt, MyDocs Sep 24 19:57:32 * lcuk chews bubblegum Sep 24 19:58:11 well, I made a surprising discovery. If you screw up the swap stuff during boot, the N900 will actually boot successfully with no swap at all, though it won't like it much Sep 24 19:58:27 daleglass: and won't run too much :) Sep 24 19:58:31 or wil it? Sep 24 19:58:38 DocScrutinizer, hotswap worked again, ty! :D Sep 24 19:58:38 sounds painfil to runwithout swap Sep 24 19:58:50 sivang: not a lot, but it lets me log in from ssh, which makes me VERY happy Sep 24 19:58:58 true, true Sep 24 19:59:12 i'd fix swap ASAP Sep 24 19:59:13 I wonder if iphone would allow that when rnning *on* swap Sep 24 19:59:57 sivang: I'm adding the ramzswap module. Turns out /etc/fstab is autogenerated, so I "fixed" the script to add ramzswap in there. First try didn't go as well as I hoped. Sep 24 20:00:59 ramzswap? Sep 24 20:01:20 like a swap device that compresses stuff instead of swapping it out Sep 24 20:01:40 cute Sep 24 20:02:20 I do stuff like loading 5 browser windows for reading on the underground. So 256MB feels a bit slow. Sep 24 20:02:39 I wouldn't even bother with fstab Sep 24 20:03:33 daleglass: allowing for better perfromance? Sep 24 20:03:41 sivang: I hope so Sep 24 20:03:47 daleglass: share you experience Sep 24 20:03:58 mameo-devel is for everything development? Sep 24 20:04:29 wtf is mameo Sep 24 20:05:33 daleglass, i dont know the answer, but people used to use offline readers for this sort of thing Sep 24 20:05:42 ShadowJK: problem is, the included swapon doesn't support setting swap priority. So if I add it while running it goes behind the flash swap and won't get used until full Sep 24 20:05:50 are there any website downloaders (easily configurable) that could get everything you need Sep 24 20:05:51 daleglass: you can even do a swapoff during normal run, if no app started and eating too much memory Sep 24 20:05:55 and then present cached version Sep 24 20:06:00 whilst you have no net Sep 24 20:06:18 they never expected to keep whole everything in memory Sep 24 20:06:22 you kids have it easy :P Sep 24 20:07:55 DocScrutinizer: huh? surely you can do it anyway Sep 24 20:07:58 ShadowJK: I would prefer to fix this fstab madness for good Sep 24 20:08:04 particularly if you have another device after that Sep 24 20:08:13 muhahaha Sep 24 20:08:37 well, sure, some things may be closed Sep 24 20:08:47 but if nothing will respawn them then they weren't worth much anyway Sep 24 20:09:43 daleglass: considered bringing decent swapon to maemo? Sep 24 20:09:59 * ShadowJK has a binary somewhere Sep 24 20:10:32 DocScrutinizer: well, that's an idea. Something isn't working anyway. /etc/fstab now works, but swap still doesn't get turned on on boot. Though swapon -a works perfectly. Weird. Sep 24 20:10:33 lcuk: isn't that website downloader called wget? Sep 24 20:11:13 DocScrutinizer, nahh Sep 24 20:11:30 eh? Sep 24 20:11:51 DocScrutinizer, too command line oriented Sep 24 20:12:02 i recall even outlook express had a newsreader built in :P Sep 24 20:12:47 lcuk: queenbeecon FTW Sep 24 20:14:12 hide yer wife, hide yer kids... Sep 24 20:15:07 though I also pondered how to implement 'addons' for microB, like creating an alarm from a time displayed at heavens-above.com, or here downloading a while (set of) pages and keep it for local browsing Sep 24 20:15:22 any news on n900 ng? Sep 24 20:15:55 will it be that thing that made jizmodo the other month? Sep 24 20:16:03 ng? Sep 24 20:16:10 next generation Sep 24 20:16:24 (whatever the next maemi/meego device will be called) Sep 24 20:16:26 * MohammadAG gets confused Sep 24 20:16:35 so… N8? Sep 24 20:16:37 most people are calling it the n9 Sep 24 20:16:38 N9? Sep 24 20:16:41 N9 Sep 24 20:16:43 whatever Sep 24 20:16:48 n8 is symbian3, great media phone Sep 24 20:16:54 luke-jr__: N8 has maemo/meego - riiiiiiiight :) Sep 24 20:17:15 DocScrutinizer: N9 is anonounced officially and all? Sep 24 20:17:27 vaporware Sep 24 20:17:34 tybollt: the leaked prototypes say N9 Sep 24 20:17:45 hence my question ... "any news ..." Sep 24 20:17:52 pupnik, have you got an n8? Sep 24 20:17:57 no news Sep 24 20:17:58 N9 cometh Q1 2011. Sep 24 20:18:03 DocScrutinizer: thank you Sep 24 20:18:05 blame Nokia for trying to blur the line between phone and handheld Sep 24 20:18:09 lcuk: i don't. doesn't have linux... Sep 24 20:18:27 mece: 'cometh'? Readeth ze bible areth weeth? Sep 24 20:18:55 well, it's a bit biblical Sep 24 20:19:03 lcuk: check out the n8 pictures and video - it's really nice Sep 24 20:19:06 pupnik, are you around Berlin to come to one of the mobile friday things next month Sep 24 20:19:12 pupnik, i totally know Sep 24 20:19:14 its awesome Sep 24 20:19:24 :) yeah i could drive down - what's up Sep 24 20:19:34 hmm, looking at the scripts is interesting. There's an ACT_DEAD var in /etc/event.d/rcS-late Sep 24 20:19:42 mece: dude... Maemo was a great idea and I really liked my N900... but it's not god... you know ;) Sep 24 20:19:45 i wanna see if i can go :) I enjoy berlin Sep 24 20:20:17 tybollt, no, hahah. Sep 24 20:20:47 anyway is it just me or do others think the time between the n900 and the N$next_device was a bit too long? Sep 24 20:21:20 why in the hell does twitter fsck with my browser Sep 24 20:21:29 i middle click on a link and it opens in same window Sep 24 20:21:38 when its not trying to load a stupid popup at same time that is Sep 24 20:22:08 tybollt: why too long? it's not that old, and IMO there's nothing particularly wrong with it either. I'd like more RAM, but that's about it. Sep 24 20:22:10 lcuk: twitter is evil Sep 24 20:22:27 daleglass++ Sep 24 20:22:35 pupnik: I'd love to get an N8 Sep 24 20:22:50 pupnik: best Qt supported Symbo Sep 24 20:23:00 Symbo? Sep 24 20:23:23 Symbian Sep 24 20:23:28 * sivang uses an LG latop Sep 24 20:23:33 does Qt run on the Sybian? Sep 24 20:23:39 yes Sep 24 20:23:43 it has "auto-typo" features Sep 24 20:23:53 Hahaha. Everything runs on the "Sybian" Sep 24 20:23:54 read what I put pupnik, do not be hasty :P Sep 24 20:23:56 on the sybian? Sep 24 20:23:56 lcuk: with pride Sep 24 20:23:58 not everything is a typo Sep 24 20:24:10 lcuk: Sybian? Sep 24 20:24:15 Sybian? Symbo? Syrban? Sep 24 20:24:18 Hi Sep 24 20:24:21 hehe Sep 24 20:24:33 I guess its a different kind of Qt Sep 24 20:24:34 Sryian sybian running Symbian Sep 24 20:24:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybian FYI Sep 24 20:24:43 a Qt chiq Sep 24 20:25:01 "Not to be confused with Symbian OS." -- well, thanks wikipedia. Sep 24 20:25:13 Shyrkhan Sep 24 20:25:48 QTes on a sybian... hot Sep 24 20:26:35 LOL Sep 24 20:26:36 LOL Sep 24 20:28:38 daleglass: I already found a way to use ramzswap on boot time, even with underlaying swap encryption... If you could package it, the modules are compiled for the stock, so you have to recompile them: http://pastebin.com/DQzG1WVJ http://rapidshare.com/files/417672221/crypto.tar.gz Sep 24 20:30:00 so eMMC is the built in storage, or what reports as "Nokia N900" when plugged into Ubuntu Sep 24 20:30:07 and rootfs sits some other place? Sep 24 20:30:16 daleglass: the package also includes diffs to the start scripts... Sep 24 20:30:18 eMMC = 32GB built in Sep 24 20:32:11 tobis87: aha, that must be what was wrong with mine. I added ramzswap to /etc/modules, but that probably gets loaded after swapon -a, which then chokes on the missing /dev/ramzswap0 Sep 24 20:34:40 daleglass: /etc/modules does not work on the n900, you would have to add an entry to /etc/event.d, but since boot is highly parallelized, you can't be sure when it gets loaded, by loading it before swapon it will make sure that it always works. I also had to work out that the sleep 1 is needed. Sep 24 20:35:07 * sivang LOLs after reading about Sybian in wikipedia Sep 24 20:36:14 Life imitates porn imitates life Sep 24 20:36:29 daleglass: and trying to use random instead of urandom was also a bad idea i had, since it had a boottime of 10 minutes. Sep 24 20:37:40 tobis87: hm, I seem to have screwed up something now Sep 24 20:38:39 how? if it does not want to use mmcblk0p3 as swap anymore, you could use mkswap to recreate the swap format. Sep 24 20:39:35 I just added a "modprobe ramzswap" and a "sleep 1" after "if [ $ACT_DEAD -eq 0 ]; then". Now gets stuck on a black screen after the nokia logo Sep 24 20:40:30 why would you add the sleep 1? Sep 24 20:40:40 modprobe should only return when the module is properly loaded Sep 24 20:41:48 just copied it from tobis87 I guess, is there any reason why that'd kill it? Sep 24 20:41:59 crashanddie: yes it should, but module needs it Sep 24 20:41:59 nope Sep 24 20:42:43 the module needs a sleep 1? Sep 24 20:43:03 you copied "modprobe ramzswap memlimit_kb=32768 backing_swap=/dev/mapper/swap" ? this will not work, since you it is adjusted for the encrypted swap in /dev/mapper Sep 24 20:43:37 nah, just "modprobe ramzswap", I have module options in /etc Sep 24 20:45:18 where in /etc? Sep 24 20:45:56 in /etc/modprobe.d, in its own file Sep 24 20:46:36 MohammadAG: not the module, but the swapon will fail, if you don't issue sleep 1 after the module insertion. Sep 24 20:47:15 bummer Sep 24 20:49:43 daleglass: no idea, on the n900 you have to make sure it does exactly what you want. i have not even thought about adding it into modprobe.d. it is really more a windows 98... Sep 24 20:50:59 but ramzswap runs for me since several month rock solid, i have added the encryption only recently. Sep 24 20:52:55 bbl, ping MohammadAG51 Sep 24 20:57:18 ramzswap working on Fremantle?! Sep 24 20:57:51 h4waii: it was working nicely until I did something and screwed up boot, yeah Sep 24 20:58:56 Where shall I send the cake? Sep 24 21:00:03 h4waii, updated Sep 24 21:00:56 h4waii: just a personal thing of mine for the moment, not going to be in extras tomorrow or anything like that Sep 24 21:04:55 MohammadAG51; Not fixed, thusfar. Sep 24 21:06:23 daleglass: You did run depmod? Maybe it is just unstable with the power kernel or it does not lookup the module options in modprobe.d? You could try to delete the module with the rescue kernel http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd but I have not tried this yet. Sep 24 21:12:41 tobis87: hm, that flashes the kernel though. I don't think it leaves the normal one in place? Sep 24 21:13:03 and that's a meego wiki, too Sep 24 21:13:06 What's the issue? Sep 24 21:13:55 "NOTE: Here we do not flash the kernel or initrd to the device, but only load them to the device memory during the boot. Original images are restored when the device is restarted. " Sep 24 21:13:57 I screwed up the boot scripts a bit too much, so I'm going to flash it Sep 24 21:14:08 ah, hm Sep 24 21:14:44 But flashing should be more safe, since "WARNING: Improper use or installation of the image may harm your device" Sep 24 21:15:39 I'm more into mooning than flashing, to be quite honest. Sep 24 21:16:02 Mooning will arouse males and females, if done properly. Sep 24 21:16:11 exactly! Sep 24 21:16:14 It's a win-win situation. Sep 24 21:16:29 and on that bombshell, it's time to say goodnight. Sep 24 21:16:29 what about streaking? Sep 24 21:16:37 That's just gross dude. Sep 24 21:16:47 thank you guys, I now know what mooning means... :-D Sep 24 21:16:49 You're a real pervert, daleglass Sep 24 21:17:53 h4waii: I'll have to agree with that, being a furry and all ;-) Sep 24 21:20:37 furries are just disturbed people Sep 24 21:20:58 h4waii, fixed for me Sep 24 21:21:15 meh, writing to MyDocs seems to freeze device every time. Funny sidenote: even my desktop had one CPU core 100% busy with wa, in USB ass rage mode. N900 100% busy wa, ssh now frozen on starting htop, after it been working long time unaffected by even system tray clock stopped Sep 24 21:21:36 now... "it's dead, Jim!" :-( Sep 24 21:23:55 math help needed: how would I convert from a frequency range (ex. 1mHz to 2mHz) into octaves? Sep 24 21:23:56 h4waii, so? Sep 24 21:24:19 mece: btw, do you have found out why you're modified libhildonfm likes to restart the device? Sep 24 21:24:34 octave = freq * 2 Sep 24 21:24:59 MNZ, wikipedia Sep 24 21:25:00 ieatlint: I'm not going to argue that I'm pretty weird, whatever is the word that best describes my kind of it, heh Sep 24 21:25:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave Sep 24 21:25:01 err octave = 2 Sep 24 21:25:08 For example, if one note has a frequency of 400 Hz, the note an octave above it is at 800 Hz, and the note an octave below is at 200 Hz. The ratio of frequencies of two notes an octave apart is therefore 2:1. Further octaves of a note occur at 2n times the frequency of that note (where n is an integer), such as 2, 4, 8, 16, et Sep 24 21:25:33 so f` = f0 * 1octave = f0 * 2 Sep 24 21:26:07 daleglass: sorry, i don't mean to be offensive, but when someone tells me they are actually an animal in a human body, it exceeds my level of wanting to deal with it Sep 24 21:26:22 and i've met just too many furries at parties and such Sep 24 21:27:41 so double the frequency = difference of one octave. I just can't go from there to 'arbitrary difference in frequency = x octaves' Sep 24 21:27:42 ieatlint: eh, I don't get that much into it. I just like the esthetics to put it in some way Sep 24 21:28:18 about audio sampling and other interesting stuff: http://xiph.org/video/vid1.shtml Sep 24 21:28:19 bah ieatlint live and let live, some people wear business suits, some people wear shell suits, some people wear diving suits and others wear furry suits Sep 24 21:28:51 dressing up is fine.. Sep 24 21:28:57 MNZ: f1 *2^x = f2 Sep 24 21:29:35 it's just the psychological part that is simply ... ergh, not sure i want to put a name on it Sep 24 21:30:17 DocScrutinizer, thanks Sep 24 21:31:24 meh ieatlint, theres bigger problems in the world than worrying what other people are upto Sep 24 21:32:58 heh, more of an issue that i've dealt with people trying to convince me they're a squirrel than me trying to convince them they're not Sep 24 21:34:00 ieatlint, why would you try to convince them they arent? Sep 24 21:34:20 i didn't Sep 24 21:34:57 speaking of which Sep 24 21:34:58 one learns very quickly to not try and convince people who think bizarre things that they are wrong Sep 24 21:35:04 i have a massive craving for peanuts now Sep 24 21:35:45 pffft, had to rip out battery Sep 24 21:35:55 shit! Sep 24 21:36:30 now awaiting damaged VFAT Sep 24 21:36:47 people believe all kinds of bizarre things, hehe Sep 24 21:36:54 * MohammadAG51 always restarts his N900 that way Sep 24 21:36:59 I'm hoping the otakukin aren't real Sep 24 21:37:24 MohammadAG51: you always got CPU @ 100% waiting for IO? Sep 24 21:37:37 aka massively writing to eMMC? Sep 24 21:37:57 yeah, my tracker kicks in when battery's low Sep 24 21:38:51 damn, I wonder how to write to eMMC MyDocs at all? Sep 24 21:41:15 MohammadAG51 - reboot after modest update isn't required. I restarted MCE - still no joy. Sep 24 21:41:47 did you update the repos? Sep 24 21:41:59 i'm sure it works mate Sep 24 21:42:16 ii modest 3.90.7-2 an e-mail client for platforms with modest r Sep 24 21:42:44 I'm manually grabbing the package. I'm not using your meta package, so I have to edit the version in the control file Sep 24 21:43:02 -dbg isn't required, is it? Sep 24 21:43:23 nope Sep 24 21:43:35 why not use the repo though? Sep 24 21:45:09 I'm just a stickler like that. Sep 24 21:45:58 There we go. Sep 24 21:46:11 plugin package version was wrong. Works now. Thanks for fixing it. Sep 24 21:47:43 meh, I was about to copy 1.2GB of mp3 from uSD to MyDocs, via mass storage mode. It created the folders on eMMC but didn't copy a single file, though device had *some* life until ~30min after I started the copy Sep 24 21:49:00 wonder if my eMMC flash is borked Sep 24 21:49:13 silicon gremlins Sep 24 21:50:25 rehi all, I couldn't stand the latency from my server so logged directly. Sep 24 21:50:43 last time I tried similar thing directly on N900 xterm, with similar result - complete freeze after several minutes Sep 24 21:51:39 What a bad idea that is. Sep 24 21:51:54 uSD -> eMMC is pure agony. Sep 24 21:52:10 uhuh Sep 24 21:52:31 so you suggest I fill the eMMC from /dev/urandom, or what? Sep 24 21:52:50 I like psaux Sep 24 21:52:51 tobis87: bah, it doesn't seem to be useful. It boots, but no backlight, and automatically reboots after about 5 seconds Sep 24 21:53:23 hmm http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44673 Sep 24 21:53:29 hmm, amazing lag Sep 24 21:53:33 and counting. Sep 24 21:54:27 h4waii: talking gibberish? Sep 24 21:55:06 Always. Sep 24 21:57:47 h4waii, np Sep 24 21:58:01 I bet Nokia has used 1GB eMMC that simply reports 32GB and brings device to a grinding halt on any serious effort to use more then the 1GB actually existent Sep 24 21:58:15 daleglass: Oh, that is bad you will have to reflash. Sep 24 22:00:49 tobis87: doing that, yeah. A pain, but ah well. Sep 24 22:02:12 DocScrutinizer, i once downloaded and gunzip'd a 200 MB-or-so file on mydocs, that also took _quite_ a while... (not the downloading) Sep 24 22:03:03 just started a new try: cp 10.2GB from laptop to MyDocs via USB Sep 24 22:03:07 DocScrutinizer: lol Sep 24 22:03:14 even when disabling the tracker?b Sep 24 22:03:17 lol???? Sep 24 22:03:29 because i remember i had much better results by copying on a non-tracked dir Sep 24 22:03:36 kerio: wtf are those 32GB for? Sep 24 22:03:48 then i swiftly mved the files Sep 24 22:04:02 and then i deleted tracker's db because fuck tracker Sep 24 22:04:11 I thought tracker can't crawl a directory when it's in UMS Sep 24 22:04:16 bah tracker - I killed tracker months ago Sep 24 22:04:20 lol Sep 24 22:04:27 h4waii: 'twas rsync Sep 24 22:04:34 Oh :S Sep 24 22:05:00 btw, os x fucks up the encoding when mounting with the usb cable Sep 24 22:05:35 oh yeah the tracker/imageviewer also chewed quite some resources when i tried to put a html tree on the device, ended up using zipfiles + a python httpd hack... Sep 24 22:05:36 HELL!!!! 16% Sep 24 22:05:40 the filename encoding Sep 24 22:06:00 http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/24/editorial-nokia-isnt-building-an-android-or-windows-phone-7-de/ Sep 24 22:06:15 hehe, looks like i was not the only pissed person in the world :D Sep 24 22:06:30 20% Sep 24 22:06:50 DocScrutinizer: did you find a cause for the ridiculously slow copy? Sep 24 22:06:50 I talked with the author of that article at Nokia World Sep 24 22:06:59 He's the only decent Engadget writer Sep 24 22:07:03 no Sep 24 22:07:34 could it be that he's swapping while copying? Sep 24 22:07:38 maybe accessing uSD and eMMC concurrently is making it barf Sep 24 22:07:43 try doing a swapoff :) Sep 24 22:07:50 LOL Sep 24 22:08:03 C'mon, it's shit IO. Sep 24 22:08:10 well, it booted. I'll mess with it more later. Sep 24 22:08:12 it is :( Sep 24 22:08:44 30% 4.0 of 13.2 Sep 24 22:10:17 DocScrutinizer, i get some 1.5 MB/s scp'ing from/to the device iirc, maybe umass isnt really faster... Sep 24 22:10:37 Me too. Sep 24 22:10:42 scp Sep 24 22:12:30 50% Sep 24 22:13:13 that's 500MB/min Sep 24 22:13:42 modulo buffers Sep 24 22:17:54 well thats at least faster than scp then Sep 24 22:18:19 75% Sep 24 22:19:11 3.3GB in 6min Sep 24 22:21:00 I'm off, night folks! Sep 24 22:21:11 MNZ: cya Sep 24 22:23:55 done - 100% of 13.2GB Sep 24 22:24:41 seems it's not the writing to eMMC but the reading from uSD that was the real problem? Sep 24 22:25:01 irc session got hung up before- so backup /home an /MyDocs and I am good to go with reflashing for 1.2? Sep 24 22:25:42 sivang: you don't need to reflash eMMC VANILLA image for a mere PR1.2 update Sep 24 22:26:10 so neither your /home nor MyDocs will suffer Sep 24 22:26:59 DocScrutinizer: okay, but I need to make enough room on rootfs for the OTA upgrade for pass? Sep 24 22:27:02 sivang: you flash COMBINED image which has rootfs, and done Sep 24 22:27:15 not if you're flashing Sep 24 22:27:49 for OTA you might run into problems when too low free space on rootfs, yes Sep 24 22:28:56 but given the OTA SSU takes hours while a flashing plus restore apps from backup utility takes few minutes, I'd think twice Sep 24 22:29:37 On packaging format debates: http://xkcd.com/ Sep 24 22:29:47 OTA SSU doesnt take hours if you do it via (fast enough) wifi link btw Sep 24 22:30:19 (or at least i dont remember waiting that long... :) Sep 24 22:30:29 the hildon backup app does a pretty good job on restoring virtually all of your settings and apps after flashing. You'll lose anything installed via apt-get though Sep 24 22:43:23 DocScrutinizer: good to know, having written hubackup I did not see too good backup apps for linux Sep 24 22:44:02 DocScrutinizer: so just create a backup, rsync or cp MyDocs and /home and I did not install too much cruft using apt-get Sep 24 22:46:28 ah so dar is stable now? Sep 24 22:47:04 * nox- once tried it and got a segfault or something like that (dont remember exactly, was a while ago :) Sep 24 22:48:52 nox-: the dist archive? Sep 24 22:49:01 *disk Sep 24 22:49:15 disk archiver yeah Sep 24 22:49:30 * nox- just looked up hubackup and saw it uses that... Sep 24 22:50:14 nox-: ah it was stable back then even Sep 24 22:50:18 nox-: and it ubunut's main Sep 24 22:50:31 nox-: but bindings for python were, how to say it? mostly inexistant Sep 24 22:50:39 i c :) Sep 24 22:50:54 nox-: so I used spawning and subproc controlling through pexpect which works nice Sep 24 22:51:09 btw can it use xz yet? Sep 24 22:51:21 nox-: xz? Sep 24 22:51:31 compression Sep 24 22:51:36 lzma based Sep 24 22:51:54 http://tukaani.org/xz/ Sep 24 22:54:24 I don't recall what dar uses but it does some really strong compression if you ask it to Sep 24 22:54:28 zip based or so Sep 24 22:57:22 I am actually inclined to reflashj to learn how to do it the next time I may need it, is it better to OTA than reflash if one only needs OTA? Sep 24 22:59:08 sivang good idea, like a scout :) Sep 24 23:02:57 lcukn900: yes, sooner or later, with all my planned tinkering with having a non one time run of meego on my device, I should know how to do it Sep 24 23:03:34 lcukn900: as probably the reason I did not need it till now is that lack of tinkering, but I did install anything I could get my hands on from either OVI or extras-testing etc. Sep 24 23:03:53 hmm, only one things remains- m joikuspot license Sep 24 23:03:57 how can I maintain it? Sep 24 23:04:17 it is somehow installed into the software /me checks settings file Sep 24 23:07:40 sivang, not sure Sep 24 23:08:37 lcuk: it is by far the most important piece of software I use on the device :) Sep 24 23:08:57 :) indeed, read the docs and check Sep 24 23:10:31 xz seems nice Sep 24 23:10:46 bindings available for all sort of scripting languages I reckon? Sep 24 23:14:53 where can I read about the quality rules h-a-m enforces on packages insalled through it? the "not enough space" wiki page says installing apps from apt-get bypasses these. Sep 24 23:15:15 will it reject a package in install time if it is "bad" ? Sep 24 23:16:45 sivang, xz homepage at the bottom says there are python bindings... Sep 24 23:18:56 nox-: nice, maybe I can use it to revive hubackup. Dar's autogenerated swig bindings never really worked. Sep 24 23:19:32 nox-: one of the issues that made us sease development so far. Sep 24 23:20:32 * sivang wonders why the flashing docs talks both about eMMC and rootfs flashing. Sep 24 23:20:36 i dont remember the details of dar, but maybe it would have to be teached about xz itself since it also does indexing etc... Sep 24 23:20:50 is it not enough to just flash rootfs? Sep 24 23:21:23 nox-: I was actually thinking of using the libzma bindings for a non dar usage. Sep 24 23:21:32 nox-: like using it solely to achive the backups Sep 24 23:21:38 ooh Sep 24 23:22:13 nox-: dar is wonderful, but there's already kdar, and using it as we do now through spawning and subprocess caters mostly for backup, restore process cannot really happen through this approach Sep 24 23:22:41 nox-: the restore process is much more complicated and requires much more user intervention, hence better to use something inprocess instead. Sep 24 23:22:47 hm maybe it was also kdar that i tried that segfaulted... Sep 24 23:23:06 nox-: hehe, I knew there was some problem with this in some libdar version Sep 24 23:23:19 nox-: it got manifested into hubackup ofcourse, made the pygtk gui hang Sep 24 23:23:38 but now kdar `should work'? Sep 24 23:24:09 nox-: I guess there was some issue in some versino of the lib, and it is now fixed. Sep 24 23:24:19 ok Sep 24 23:24:40 whats the difference between kdar and your one? Sep 24 23:24:41 nox-: I think it works , yes, I don't know people who ise it personally, but I'm sure it is popular in KDE Sep 24 23:25:15 nox-: so mine is dead simple, or at least tries to be (I succeded in doing that for the backup process actually, and people use it to backup even though GUI restore is not working) Sep 24 23:25:29 nox-: kdar, is you know, bells and whistles as known in KDE :-) Sep 24 23:25:41 nox-: lots of features, things to decide upon Sep 24 23:25:44 ah Sep 24 23:25:59 (sorry for being ot btw) Sep 24 23:26:11 ah right, we are :) Sep 24 23:26:12 oops Sep 24 23:26:17 nox-: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/hubackup-backup-application-for-ubuntu-home-users.html Sep 24 23:26:26 nox-: the main dialog is , stupidily simple? :) Sep 24 23:26:46 I should really revive this tool, shame to see it bit rot. Sep 24 23:27:04 maybe a Qt based (-KDE?) tool to remain dead simple and use dar's C++ lib Sep 24 23:27:50 as a complement to kdar. Sep 24 23:28:48 nox-: I went so far to automatically calculate the slices size for the user based on the target media he is trying to use Sep 24 23:29:34 nox-: kdar is not too complicated, but I for one refrained from asking the user if he wants to do a "differentia" backup, assuming a new user to ubuntu or os, would not really know what it measn and could be more assisted by simple language and no bac Sep 24 23:29:39 nox-: not backup lingo Sep 24 23:29:49 nox-: as an example.. Sep 24 23:31:43 anyway, I need to get this upgrade done :) Sep 24 23:32:32 :) Sep 24 23:32:51 * sivang wonders what's that with the ioquake3 package that is so dangerous Sep 24 23:33:19 nox-: but yeah, I should really stretch to revive it Sep 24 23:35:49 hildon backup in progress Sep 24 23:41:28 is modest open source? Sep 24 23:43:04 oh it is on garage Sep 24 23:59:10 * lcuk just watched terminator salvation Sep 25 00:01:28 bye a;; Sep 25 00:01:29 all Sep 25 00:07:27 lcuk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocE3MjF77Wk 5-DOF untethered/wireless robot steering with electromagnetic fields - in-eye robot surgery - Sep 25 00:10:16 hey, can anyone with thread-scrubbing capabilities show ZShakespeare the door? Sep 25 00:11:48 ooooh pupnik Sep 25 00:12:02 wmarone, hmm where? Sep 25 00:12:12 oh, sjgadsby is on it Sep 25 00:12:12 and theres a report this post if its on talk.maemo.org Sep 25 00:12:40 ZShakespeare decided to go out in a blazed of immaturity and post ... crap all over Sep 25 00:45:54 * johnx can't work up the motivation to take talk.maemo.org remotely seriously anymore Sep 25 01:08:39 hello any new updates for n900? Sep 25 01:09:32 vnepo, do you follow the planet.maemo.org RSS feed? Sep 25 01:11:52 nope let me follow that Sep 25 01:12:04 good way to keep up to date ;) Sep 25 01:12:23 lol thanks!! Sep 25 01:15:52 ok i added the feed Sep 25 01:33:58 I have apmefo installed. Sep 25 01:34:10 This - sort-of is useful for making categories. Sep 25 01:34:37 however - is rthere any alternative - other than catorise - which has issues apparantly with battery saving. Sep 25 01:35:01 I'm specifically wondering how I can sort apps that are not in folders with apmefo Sep 25 02:10:06 SpeedEvil: ?? Sep 25 02:11:18 I'm quite ok with ApMeFo. And the battery hog issue is common to catorise and ApMeFo, cause it's a hildon desktop bug Sep 25 02:12:08 that shows only on windows that are supposed to scroll but actually too 'short' to scroll any direction. Sep 25 02:13:46 the balistic scrolling - or what ever it's called - keeps running cyrcles bouncing up and down the window 0.0000points Sep 25 02:15:40 sorting kinda interferes with ApMeFo, but when I tested it once, I only had to start the ApMeFo config gui and 'save', to fix the mess. Maybe in subfolders it's different, one way or the other Sep 25 02:15:55 submenus even Sep 25 02:17:27 lol DocScrutinizer Sep 25 02:17:46 (kinetic infinite bounce) Sep 25 02:18:05 lol on what? Sep 25 02:18:31 Ah - not hit that bug Sep 25 02:18:47 DocScrutinizer, many dynamic systems can get into that situation Sep 25 02:18:52 * lcuk has one now Sep 25 02:19:14 yeah - I can 'fix' it - with either folders or sorting, but I want both. Sep 25 02:19:19 Currently messing with vi. Sep 25 02:20:37 considering how sorting works, I'd guess it can coexist with submenus Sep 25 02:21:35 it's just the sorting process ruins the subfolder .desktops (my take on it), but ApMeFo doesn't ruin sorting Sep 25 02:22:38 tbh it SHOULD get integrated into HSM Sep 25 02:22:43 HDM* Sep 25 02:23:04 or the applauncher - whoever is doing the sorting Sep 25 02:23:41 I can gret sorting and folders - but the folders are 'included' and I can't work out how to get them to the top Sep 25 02:24:50 erm, sorting the folders might be tricky. Look into an arbitrary .desktop, iirc there's a line like "sequence=13" Sep 25 02:25:47 ApMeFo, on creating those folder .desktop new, probably will not keep those position info Sep 25 02:26:04 but for sure you can edit with vi or... Sep 25 02:28:42 there's so much in maemo that's actually implemented but the frontend to config and put to purpose is missing... It's a shame Sep 25 02:28:48 yes. Sep 25 02:30:15 profiles, subfolders, *#... to name just a few Sep 25 02:31:04 anyway, off for relaxing **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 25 02:59:57 2010