**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 29 02:59:57 2010 Sep 29 03:00:08 I thought it was black plastic, but they look slightly different Sep 29 03:00:35 franz_, ask the owner of the picture Sep 29 03:00:46 delt, what warings/errors does it show Sep 29 03:00:55 it does sound like you have one or other repository faults Sep 29 03:01:06 none, at least not in the ui's main window Sep 29 03:01:33 thats kinda helpful to yourself Sep 29 03:01:52 meaning...? Sep 29 03:01:56 fyi, the internal "backup" tool actually backs up both repositories and packages installed lists Sep 29 03:02:00 menu -> tools -> log Sep 29 03:02:40 whats in the repositories list though menu -> application catalogues Sep 29 03:03:02 yeah, but the device was bricked. somehow with r&d mode enabled the 2gb partition showed up as the SECOND partition over usb, and now fresh install it shows up as first partition. Sep 29 03:03:02 lcuk, keep in mind. this is an N810 Sep 29 03:03:43 johnx, ahh Sep 29 03:03:49 ah, shows "failed to refresh" on maemo-extras Sep 29 03:03:57 with a red X at the left Sep 29 03:04:10 should give an error code (404 403 etc) Sep 29 03:04:11 so now look at the log Sep 29 03:04:19 tools -> log Sep 29 03:04:21 i believe the error is listed there Sep 29 03:04:46 E:Connect_Ur_Wifi Sep 29 03:05:12 W: GPG error (i assume W for Warning?) Sep 29 03:05:24 yeah. that's expected Sep 29 03:05:46 run check for updates again Sep 29 03:06:02 and hit the refresh icon at the bottom right Sep 29 03:06:03 E: failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras/......... Sub-process gzip returned an error code Sep 29 03:06:34 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=828888#post828888 Sep 29 03:06:35 extras repo is back up? (seeing the notice from earlier in the topic got removed) Sep 29 03:06:36 check that Sep 29 03:06:39 thats live now Sep 29 03:07:12 it just popped on vaispy Sep 29 03:07:39 sounds like m.o is having issues perhaps Sep 29 03:09:09 check for updates, refresh, no go :/ Sep 29 03:09:19 still shows extras as disabled. Sep 29 03:10:49 with that item selected, i get the error (same one from the logs) twice under it Sep 29 03:10:52 unrelated: has anyone else noticed that the N800 just felt better in the hand than the N810 or N900 does? Sep 29 03:12:08 no Sep 29 03:12:23 and I have my answer :) Sep 29 03:12:31 lol Sep 29 03:12:40 N810 was certainly better than N900 Sep 29 03:12:51 never held a n800 or a n900 so dunno Sep 29 03:13:01 n810 had one massive major horrid problem i had to build a whole cradle for Sep 29 03:13:20 certainly bulkier than an ipod nano or sandisk e2x0 Sep 29 03:13:20 it was impossible to almost fall asleep at night and hold/move pages nicely Sep 29 03:17:02 lcuk: what do you mean by hold/move pages while falling asleep? Sep 29 03:17:10 delt, i read a lot Sep 29 03:17:44 ok... so what is "holding" a page? Sep 29 03:17:46 with my old pocket loox machine, i could grasp device in my knuckle and fall asleep whilst turning pages using its real buttons Sep 29 03:18:07 hey, has anyone else had trouble with the extras repository in the last 12 or so hours? Sep 29 03:18:14 YES Sep 29 03:18:22 heh Sep 29 03:18:25 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=828888#post828888 << MrPPS Sep 29 03:18:34 heh. perfect time to reflash my N800 :| Sep 29 03:18:42 was in the topic earlier today, and now my tablet cant access it Sep 29 03:19:42 which sucks because i would very much have a sshd server on it, and a vnc viewer(+ server if there is one) would be quite welcome as well Sep 29 03:19:55 s/very much/very much like to/ Sep 29 03:19:56 delt, it has all (inc server) Sep 29 03:19:56 delt meant: which sucks because i would very much like to have a sshd server on it, and a vnc viewer(+ server if there is one) would be quite welcome as well Sep 29 03:20:02 fair enough - so no fix yet? Sep 29 03:20:33 * lcuk has another cig then liws back down Sep 29 03:20:36 lies Sep 29 03:20:43 lcuk: sh (xterm) tells me "not found" for ssh and sshd Sep 29 03:22:01 16gb mini sd card is on my to-buy-soon list..... Sep 29 03:22:19 ah, so its part of the upgrade Sep 29 03:22:20 delt, you are having repository issues Sep 29 03:22:26 openssh Sep 29 03:22:33 is the metpackage Sep 29 03:22:36 meta Sep 29 03:22:47 installing both client and server Sep 29 03:22:54 so if update manager wont let you edit the repository dist, how do we update to 1.3? Sep 29 03:23:05 lcuk: in other words, apt-get openssh? Sep 29 03:23:09 without the ? duh Sep 29 03:23:15 in a generic sense, do not worry about the repository list Sep 29 03:23:30 nobody needed to change it from fremantle to fremantle1.2 did they :P Sep 29 03:23:33 (manually) Sep 29 03:23:48 delt, apt-get install openssh Sep 29 03:23:51 mine just installed that way :P Sep 29 03:23:54 but it will show up in the list of packages Sep 29 03:24:06 how should i edit it back to fremantle Sep 29 03:24:20 ah thanks =) been a while since i used debian-like package managers Sep 29 03:24:20 MrPPS, you dont need to Sep 29 03:24:48 * lcuk melts his brain and goes to sleep Sep 29 03:24:57 lcuk: if its currently set to 1.2, will 1.2 be symlinked to 1.3 then? Sep 29 03:25:45 *sigh* what if i make a COPY of busybox $ cp busybox su && chmod +s su Sep 29 03:25:57 MrPPS, if you didn't muck with the manually, everything will be taken care of. if you did muck with it, change it back to whatever it was before Sep 29 03:26:28 s/$ /$ cd \/bin && / Sep 29 03:26:33 delt, what are you trying to do? Sep 29 03:26:36 su root Sep 29 03:26:46 but a symlink to busybox can't be +s Sep 29 03:27:24 and im not particularly fond of hardlinks, even for regular files Sep 29 03:27:38 so, if what you're suggesting actually works, wouldn't that let anyone with shell access on any linux get root? :) Sep 29 03:28:22 oh, editing the /etc/sudo* files appropriately of course Sep 29 03:29:06 what was the name of that "gainroot" package? Sep 29 03:29:14 rootsh Sep 29 03:29:52 thx. fortunately right now the tablet is still in r+d mode, so it "should" work or so i've read Sep 29 03:30:08 ah, right :) Sep 29 03:30:11 forgot about that Sep 29 03:31:33 hmm, says "E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable) Sep 29 03:31:47 johnx: i didn't "muck" with it manually, but i did add the extras repo's manually after purchasing the phone Sep 29 03:31:52 delt, are you root? Sep 29 03:31:54 yeah Sep 29 03:32:06 i followed instructions on the website, adding fremantle-1.2 as the dist, and free non-free as the options Sep 29 03:32:07 do you have package manager open? Sep 29 03:32:07 well, in that xterm yeah Sep 29 03:32:18 oooh *duh* Sep 29 03:32:36 MrPPS, if it's fremantle-1.2 right now I think you can just change it to fremantle and everything should be fine Sep 29 03:32:44 alright, thanks Sep 29 03:32:52 but wasn't extras included by default, just disabled? Sep 29 03:32:57 nope, closed app. manager and same error Sep 29 03:33:14 delt: ps aux | grep apt Sep 29 03:33:20 see if app manager left something behind Sep 29 03:33:21 yeah, i just enabled it (after fresh re-flash) and it was disabled Sep 29 03:33:48 enabled it, now it seems to not-work just fine Sep 29 03:34:17 gaaaah where is the | on that keyboard :/ Sep 29 03:34:58 i figured out pressing the "chr" button (btw, is there any way to configure those extra characters?) Sep 29 03:35:30 add it to the shortcut bar on your xterm Sep 29 03:36:09 tried that on my old install, character "bar" ... didnt work Sep 29 03:36:21 with an uppercase or lowercase B... i think i tried both Sep 29 03:36:32 what about pipe? Sep 29 03:37:06 see what it's called on your linux desktop Sep 29 03:37:12 first thing that came to mind, didnt work either ... but dont remember if i tried both Pipe and pipe Sep 29 03:37:13 xev and hit the | key Sep 29 03:37:46 "bar" in lowercase Sep 29 03:37:58 should be the same in maemo right? Sep 29 03:38:21 even though it's a heavily modified X11 Sep 29 03:38:33 s/it's/it looks like/ Sep 29 03:38:34 delt meant: even though it looks like a heavily modified X11 Sep 29 03:38:54 yeah, I think Sep 29 03:39:36 aha, process "/usr/libexec/apt-worker", root, SWN Sep 29 03:41:00 killall apt-worker killed it, no need for kill -9 Sep 29 03:41:59 reading package lists.... (quickly showed % then "Done") Sep 29 03:42:17 Building dependency tree, Reading state information... Done Sep 29 03:42:23 we're ok without the details unless there's a problem :) Sep 29 03:42:24 E: Couldn't find package rootfs Sep 29 03:42:32 rootsh Sep 29 03:43:09 *FACEPALM* can you send me a baseball bat, sledge hammer or something, that would do my head some good Sep 29 03:43:28 :) Sep 29 03:43:43 really, excuse me but this is not excusable. Sep 29 03:44:32 same with rootsh, E: cant find package rootsh Sep 29 03:44:42 ah, well maybe I was wrong on that one Sep 29 03:44:48 * johnx checks Sep 29 03:45:03 same with openssh...wtf?? Sep 29 03:45:51 apt-get update Sep 29 03:46:02 I still think extras never properly refreshed Sep 29 03:46:02 oh, i need a local list of packages...? Sep 29 03:46:23 what about 23:42 < delt> reading package lists.... (quickly showed % then "Done") Sep 29 03:46:36 it was reading the local package lists into RAM Sep 29 03:47:09 actually, the apt-worker you killed might have been doing that update ... Sep 29 03:48:05 errors about extras again.... then at the end E: some index files failed to download, blahblah Sep 29 03:48:34 what's the error it says? Sep 29 03:48:51 404? 403? timeout? failed to resolve? Sep 29 03:49:48 uh 2sec, changing xterm to a smaller font because this is ridiculous Sep 29 03:50:27 and white/grey on black background instead of white background... this is aggressing my eyes Sep 29 03:51:57 wish i still had that "droid" font... was perfect for xterm on that screen Sep 29 03:52:10 s/font/font pack/ Sep 29 03:52:11 delt meant: wish i still had that "droid" font pack... was perfect for xterm on that screen Sep 29 03:54:55 hey, the internal 2gb chip isnt even mounted!! Sep 29 03:55:25 was gonna do apt-whatever | tee some file on there and stick it from the usb drive to my web directory, .... ?? Sep 29 03:55:47 is the N810 plugged into your PC? Sep 29 03:55:56 yeah, usb cable Sep 29 03:56:03 and r+d mode is on Sep 29 03:56:09 can't have the same FS mounted in two places ;) Sep 29 03:56:33 i agree with that, but its not mounted on the pc Sep 29 03:56:41 but the N810 can't know that Sep 29 03:56:53 unplug the USB cable and the N810 will remount it Sep 29 03:56:56 so there's an auto-mount-unmounter, that checks for usb connection...? Sep 29 03:56:58 ah ok Sep 29 03:57:32 oh btw, battery meter is still full..... any cmdline to show percentage of charge? Sep 29 03:57:55 think there's an app that does Sep 29 03:58:01 or a dbus request or something Sep 29 03:58:01 been what, 2 hours running and plugged on the usb? Sep 29 03:58:09 anyway, ill check that later Sep 29 03:59:04 ah, there it is. Sep 29 04:03:26 just wondering, what if mmc2 is busy and i plug the usb cable? Sep 29 04:03:37 it just doesnt show up as a storage device? Sep 29 04:03:44 correct Sep 29 04:04:02 and your N810 will pop-up some type of warning/error/complaint/plea for help Sep 29 04:04:27 heh Sep 29 04:06:28 wait, the infobot will actually obey vi commands?? Sep 29 04:06:34 s/wait/Wait/ Sep 29 04:06:35 kwtm meant: Wait, the infobot will actually obey vi commands?? Sep 29 04:06:42 s/info/Info/ Sep 29 04:06:43 kwtm meant: wait, the Infobot will actually obey vi commands?? Sep 29 04:07:00 s/i/I/g Sep 29 04:07:02 kwtm meant: waIt, the Infobot wIll actually obey vI commands?? Sep 29 04:07:14 abcde Sep 29 04:07:34 s/a/A/ -e /b/B/ -e c/C/ Sep 29 04:07:41 -e s/a/A/ -e /b/B/ -e c/C/ Sep 29 04:07:43 no Sep 29 04:07:45 s/the$.*$will/THE\1WILL/ Sep 29 04:07:49 hehe Sep 29 04:07:58 it understands s/a/b/ and s/a/b/g Sep 29 04:08:27 s/the(.*)will/THE\1WILL/ Sep 29 04:08:36 http://www.deimos.ca/miscjunk/apt-get.out.txt Sep 29 04:08:38 s/?./?!/ Sep 29 04:08:48 I think I have to be the last one who spoke. Sep 29 04:08:53 s/I/i/ Sep 29 04:08:53 kwtm meant: i think I have to be the last one who spoke. Sep 29 04:09:10 s/.k/KK/ Sep 29 04:09:20 Okay, so no wildcards. Sep 29 04:09:45 s/[a-z]o/o/ Sep 29 04:10:06 … Sep 29 04:10:25 delt, yeah. try to grab that file on your desktop and see if it's a valid gzip file Sep 29 04:12:40 um, dont see any link to a .gz file? Sep 29 04:13:37 delt, line beginning: "Failed to fetch ... " Sep 29 04:13:45 in your apt-get.out.txt Sep 29 04:13:59 duh *facedoublepalm* Sep 29 04:14:26 <--- stiupd and witardid ):- Sep 29 04:14:37 no worries Sep 29 04:15:25 uh Sep 29 04:15:27 [pts/8][user@deimos]:~/n810/apt-get$ wget http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz Sep 29 04:15:43 Length: 1602 (1.6K) [text/html] Sep 29 04:15:43 Saving to: `Packages.gz' Sep 29 04:15:49 [pts/8][user@deimos]:~/n810/apt-get$ file Packages.gz Sep 29 04:15:49 Packages.gz: ASCII text, with CRLF, LF line terminators Sep 29 04:15:53 heh Sep 29 04:16:01 yeah, about what i thought Sep 29 04:16:05 html code Sep 29 04:16:13 so the repo is borked for some people, including you Sep 29 04:16:16 it happens from time to time Sep 29 04:16:32 the whole thing is on akamai and falls apart in a light breeze Sep 29 04:17:09 http://www.deimos.ca/miscjunk/Packages.gz.txt Sep 29 04:17:33 so the problem is on the server's side? Sep 29 04:17:36 yes Sep 29 04:17:38 definitely Sep 29 04:17:53 same problem as the maemo-extras repo? Sep 29 04:18:08 that is the maemo extras repo Sep 29 04:18:49 the topic explains that extras is broken Sep 29 04:18:59 anyways, got to go for a bit Sep 29 04:19:02 uh. i think i better get a brain transplant asafp Sep 29 04:19:02 'later all Sep 29 04:19:12 How do we get the topic? Sep 29 04:19:23 You mean the repo server is broken? Wow. :( Sep 29 04:19:24 depends on your irc program? Sep 29 04:19:33 try /topic Sep 29 04:19:38 oh Sep 29 04:19:58 i just mapped ctrl+t to run /topic *DUUUH* Sep 29 04:22:17 Tune in to ktwm for the best maemo-extras in town! That is, if your tablet has an FM tuner! Sep 29 04:22:28 Tune in to kwtm for the best maemo-extras in town! That is, if your tablet has an FM tuner! Sep 29 04:22:47 sry i acnt spel Sep 29 04:26:34 mkay.... so gonna check again tomorrow, i think it's sleep time for me Sep 29 04:26:49 good night all Sep 29 04:27:23 hmmm you guys should look at this: http://psx-scene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67178 Sep 29 04:27:42 douchebags at sony suing everyone, they named psfreedom too Sep 29 05:02:17 1. take n8x0. 2. disable wifi energy savings. 3. connect to wifi. 4. wait until battery is discharged. 5. put it on charger. 6. go to sleep (~8h) 7. suddenly discover that your tablet is only 50% charged Sep 29 05:02:50 i have only one question. what the fuck? Sep 29 05:04:29 it doesn't just switch to AC mode you know Sep 29 05:04:30 :P Sep 29 05:05:37 Stskeeps: i don't care what it does or not. i put it on charger and expect it to fe fully (okay, or almost fully) charged after it sit on it for 8 hours Sep 29 05:06:10 :nod: but if you use more energy than you put into it.. Sep 29 05:07:22 then it wouldn't charge at all. Sep 29 05:07:22 but it did and indicator showed it isn't charging when i woke up. Sep 29 05:07:36 hrm Sep 29 05:07:37 dunno Sep 29 05:08:28 Stskeeps: I am not sure the using-more-energy case ever happens with the dedicated wall charger. Sep 29 05:08:36 Stskeeps: as it does not limit the current Sep 29 05:08:44 idle wifi without energy savings kills battery in less than 8 hours. 4-6 afair. Sep 29 05:09:06 slonopotamus: go talk to bme and ask on various data to explore the problem Sep 29 05:09:07 :P Sep 29 05:09:30 slonopotamus: You woke up, and it was not charging from the power supply? Sep 29 05:09:42 slonopotamus: Happened to me several times lately. Sep 29 05:10:03 RST38h: yep. though it was plugged in Sep 29 05:15:21 was it glowing blue or shining green or glowing green? Sep 29 05:15:28 glowing/pulsing Sep 29 05:16:32 ... Sep 29 05:16:41 it was grey n800 Sep 29 05:16:48 oh, n800 Sep 29 05:17:28 well then, was the d-pad steady blue or blinking blue fast or blinking blue slow? Sep 29 05:18:13 And did you unplug charger before you observed battery icon at 50% Sep 29 05:18:42 d-pad stays off when charging Sep 29 05:18:50 tray icon said it isn't. Sep 29 05:19:11 it was 50% both with and without charger Sep 29 05:19:53 and don't tell me about broken charger cable. Sep 29 05:20:24 mine doesn't stay off when charging Sep 29 05:20:38 configurable in settings afaik Sep 29 05:21:29 slonopotamus: I suspect this happens when you lock it too fast after plugging it in Sep 29 05:21:53 slonopotamus: this is the only idea I have got about the problem =( Sep 29 05:23:33 has it happened before? Sep 29 05:23:44 * ShadowJK has never had it happen on his n800 Sep 29 05:23:54 * RST38h actually has it happen on his n900 Sep 29 05:24:03 RST38h: "lock it too fast" - ??? Sep 29 05:24:20 except when charging with a non-nokia charger that puts out too much current sometimes Sep 29 05:24:25 slonopotamus: there is a lock switch at the right side Sep 29 05:24:42 RST38h: how it affects charging? Sep 29 05:24:48 slonopotamus: when you toggle it right when plugging in the charger, n900 sometimes does not go into chargin mode Sep 29 05:24:54 ... Sep 29 05:25:03 pr1.2 Sep 29 05:25:21 it was n800, damnit. next. Sep 29 05:26:15 if it didn't charge, it wouldn't survive 8 hours with disabled wifi energy savings Sep 29 05:26:34 so it did charge and then stopped Sep 29 05:27:27 hm Sep 29 05:27:40 * ShadowJK was going to guess it went to full and tripped on battery overvoltage during pwm switch on cycle or on dc adapter overcurrent :-) Sep 29 05:27:56 complicated. Sep 29 05:28:58 though typically it just goes into reboot loop when the former happens :) Sep 29 05:29:58 the battery icon used to hang for me alot, and get stuck not updating Sep 29 05:30:24 no tooltip/info when tapping it was sure sign Sep 29 05:30:44 hm, is there anybody here using the "Faster Application Manager" App? Sep 29 05:31:26 it is advanced power applet and it didn't hang Sep 29 05:31:30 v0.6.5 ? Sep 29 05:31:57 ShadowJK: whatever, you can try to reproduce :) Sep 29 05:32:29 hm, what data source does that thing use? Sep 29 05:35:04 btw, is there smth like batterygraph for diablo? Sep 29 05:35:24 ShadowJK: i used plain nokia wall charger Sep 29 05:35:34 Well it either didn't trigger recharge again after reaching full (sw prob), or it correctly popped up a "Not Charging" dialog while you were away due to some now unknown factor :) Sep 29 05:35:54 i can try that again Sep 29 05:36:30 not that it actually tells you why it's not charging Sep 29 05:36:56 hiding information from users is userfriendly, remember Sep 29 05:37:28 i was away because i don't have a habit of watching how my devices charge, you know. especially when i sleep Sep 29 05:39:04 well, recharging is easy to check, one just needs to take fully charged tablet (still connected to charger) and start intensive battery drain Sep 29 05:39:42 100% cpu usage drains whole battery in just 2 hours :) Sep 29 05:41:00 well also tap the battery icon when it gets full, if it recommnds you unplg charger to save electricity you know it hasn't yet tripped at that point Sep 29 05:42:02 okay, new topic. anyone knows what software dims screen in maemo? Sep 29 05:42:19 and turns it off Sep 29 05:42:23 (screen) Sep 29 05:45:01 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_sdk_free_armel/xserver-xomap/1.6.99.1-0osso20090208.104+0m5/ says i uploaded package to fremantle sdk :) Sep 29 05:46:44 is that 100% cpu AND wifi without psm? screen off or on and at what brightness? :) Sep 29 05:47:15 2h is just 100% cpu, everything else off Sep 29 05:47:42 ah Sep 29 05:48:15 (i compile on it sometimes :P) Sep 29 05:48:15 when it start rebootng when you plug in charger, replace battery Sep 29 06:34:52 Anyone have URL of that web page again with all the useful dbus signals like how to switch to silent profile, how to send an SMS by dbus, etc.? Sep 29 06:36:08 wow.. ctrl-jmkl fascinates me... Sep 29 06:36:49 Jebba has a nice page about that Sep 29 06:36:50 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS Sep 29 07:00:20 soo.. What's up with extras today? Sep 29 07:00:39 up and down Sep 29 07:00:44 * johnx bets on akamai problems Sep 29 07:01:48 my bet is on x-fade on vacation Sep 29 07:09:02 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11348 Sep 29 07:09:03 Bug 11348: maemo.org Extras repository fails to refresh Sep 29 07:12:26 http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Id=547 Sep 29 07:16:11 Hi I have a technical question ... I know there is phones with 2 sim-cards ... I acctually don't know how they work but I would like to know if it would be possible to use the n900 with another sim-card. I am thinking a of virtual image of the other sim as a device. This would probably have some narly possibilities as to having a sim for different providers which offer free calls to their network Sep 29 07:49:05 is there any advantage or disadvantage of using the maemo sdk+ instead of the one from nokia? Sep 29 07:51:10 is extras repo working right now? still getting error when refreshing :/ Sep 29 08:54:41 nslu2-log: ? Sep 29 08:54:49 nslu2-log: info Sep 29 08:55:02 nslu2-log: help Sep 29 08:55:11 nslu2-log: status Sep 29 08:56:30 povbot`: ? Sep 29 08:56:30 DocScrutinizer2: Error: "?" is not a valid command. Sep 29 08:56:37 povbot`: info Sep 29 08:56:37 DocScrutinizer2: Error: "info" is not a valid command. Sep 29 08:56:41 povbot takes care of the normal logging Sep 29 08:56:44 povbot`: help Sep 29 08:56:44 DocScrutinizer2: (help [] []) -- This command gives a useful description of what does. is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. Sep 29 08:57:06 ~lart major software devs for not agreeing what ctrl+w means Sep 29 08:57:06 * infobot executes killall -KILL major software devs for not agreeing what ctrl+w means Sep 29 08:57:14 Stskeeps: checking robots for correct info about their site and master Sep 29 08:57:15 suitable Sep 29 08:57:19 ~botsnack Sep 29 08:57:19 johnx: aw, gee Sep 29 08:58:02 Stskeeps: just not kicking povbot and nslu as I *know* them Sep 29 09:01:47 temp: what's up with your nick and registration? Sep 29 09:02:08 damn you johnx, I tried what ctrl + w is in xchat D Sep 29 09:02:25 why do you think I left and came back like 3 times Sep 29 09:03:07 ctrl+w is 'delete word' in bash, and firefox on mac, it's switch window in vim, and close window in most linux stuff Sep 29 09:03:32 >_< Sep 29 09:05:50 delete word(s) is easy with ctr-shift-left - then bs Sep 29 09:06:29 I try to stay off the cursor keys Sep 29 09:06:41 why that? Sep 29 09:06:49 have to move off the home row Sep 29 09:07:00 lol Sep 29 09:07:31 for ctrl-shift-left you actually have to do by far nastier things Sep 29 09:08:24 errr, ctrl-shift isn't too bad Sep 29 09:08:25 esp on N900 Sep 29 09:08:37 heh. well there's that :) Sep 29 09:08:46 I don't spend all day typing on my N900 (blessedly) Sep 29 09:09:37 I wouldn't have expected you're concerned about homerow on N900, though it took a while till I realized that Sep 29 09:09:49 ahaha Sep 29 09:10:34 * johnx gets back to micro-optimizing his thumb typing, and practicing DVORAK on his N900 Sep 29 09:10:48 duh :-O Sep 29 09:15:34 I still hit 'm' instead ' ' on N900, as my thumbs haven't yet forgotten the N810. Switching to dvorak - can't imagine Sep 29 09:16:17 I still miss the Zaurus 5500's layout ... Sep 29 09:17:35 also: we've taken waaaay too long circling back from Trolltech/Qtopia on the Zaurus to Nokia-Trolltech/Qt on Meego Sep 29 09:17:56 feels like we could have done less than half of the API breaks Sep 29 09:25:06 :nod: Sep 29 09:27:24 smooph: SIM access is direct hw interface from modem to card holder. There's few you can do from linux domain Sep 29 09:28:18 DocScrutinizer: I thought so, I wonder why ;) Sep 29 09:29:15 because this is a Nokia device and not Openmoko GTA04 ;-P Sep 29 09:30:15 For GTA04 I designed 6 'eavesdropping' GPIO from SoC to SIM holder. This would've allowed to do such things you think of Sep 29 09:33:09 smooph: but for emulating / cloning a SIM you first have to read out the secret crypto key from a valid SIM, and that's not simple or even impossible nowadays with contemporary SIM hw Sep 29 09:35:26 yeah I just thought it be really nice ... to have something like carrier specific contacts ... call jim(tmobile) with your tmobile sim = charge 0$ ... call judy (vodafone) with voda sim ... and so on Sep 29 09:36:13 you regularly need multi-SIM hardware to do this Sep 29 09:37:03 SIMs can't be copied or emulated (short story) Sep 29 09:38:08 yeah I just thought ... anything can be cloned whatever the encryption might be Sep 29 09:38:24 well just an idea Sep 29 09:42:30 smooph: SIM isn't a simple (maybe encrypted) data storage, it's a processor that's answering a challenge-response authentication scheme. This isn't easily cloneable Sep 29 09:43:24 you usually can not read out the cryptographic key that's used to generate the response form challenge Sep 29 09:43:42 from* Sep 29 09:45:16 understand Sep 29 10:02:05 "What happens in the smartcard, stays in the smartcard" Sep 29 10:02:19 :D Sep 29 10:05:29 except RF emissions and power line modulations :-P Sep 29 10:07:33 docscrutinizer: have you seen the latest GnD smartcard which uses an optocoupler for data transfer so that there is no leak? Sep 29 10:08:01 they hacked the 'old' SIMs by closely observing power consumption and timing of response, and - using this info together with known details of hw and algo implementation - deduced the key from that, iirc Sep 29 10:08:03 it can also use a small built-in battery which provides up to 20 seconds of power so that the smartcard can do computations without being influenced Sep 29 10:08:56 crashanddie: heh, no didn't realize yet Sep 29 10:09:03 don't know if this is public data yet so shouldn't talk about it. Sep 29 10:10:08 GnD == Gaerke & Devrient ? Sep 29 10:10:46 Giesecke and Devrient? Sep 29 10:11:03 I still have one of their microSD smartcards Sep 29 10:11:04 something yeah Sep 29 10:11:19 pretty cool stuff, working on getting a browser on Android to use the certs on the card for SSLv3 Sep 29 10:11:53 :nod: Sep 29 10:12:27 for a long time, I wanted to work something out so that I could use bluetooth to unlock a computer, just by presenting my phone to it Sep 29 10:12:51