**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 30 02:59:57 2010 Sep 30 03:00:31 \what the topic? Sep 30 03:17:05 ..... extras repo still broken? :( Sep 30 03:17:24 is this because i flashed my n810 and lost all the apps i had on it? Sep 30 03:17:34 thinking i could easily reinstall them?? Sep 30 03:17:44 *sigh* anyway... be back later... Sep 30 03:18:26 so when I press about the middle of the battery door, N900 drops cellular :-) Sep 30 04:06:12 damn, my n900 turned itself off twice in the last 3 minutes for some reasons... Sep 30 04:06:30 (or kernel crash or something...) Sep 30 04:07:34 what's /proc/bootreason say? Sep 30 04:08:04 pwr_key Sep 30 04:08:09 it always just says that. Sep 30 04:08:12 hm Sep 30 04:08:29 this is also scary... my bash history is corrupted Sep 30 04:08:36 o_O Sep 30 04:08:42 O_o Sep 30 04:09:11 .bash_history has some random binary data in it, as well as some sql table create statements in it... Sep 30 04:09:23 that screams filesystem corruptio Sep 30 04:09:32 yeah Sep 30 04:09:41 next time if it happens when you're using it with screen on, if the screen contents becomes white just before the backlight dies... then it's probably the battery contacts Sep 30 04:10:16 how would i fsck /dev/mmcblk0p2? Sep 30 04:11:35 I suggest you don't Sep 30 04:11:45 it just makes it worse Sep 30 04:12:37 well, that's probably true, but continue to use the fs wouldn't help it either i thought Sep 30 04:13:09 I tried fsck it once and it made it so fucked up I ended up mkfs a new one and restoring from backup Sep 30 04:13:20 perhaps it's a good time to backup and reflash... Sep 30 04:13:40 even if you mount it ro and fsck? Sep 30 04:17:26 I had it /umounted/ when I ran fsck Sep 30 04:18:10 oh :( Sep 30 04:18:17 it took some creative scripting of the actual fsck and failsafes for me Sep 30 04:18:23 and it ended up being pointless :) Sep 30 04:19:11 hmm Sep 30 04:19:53 i've been having random power off in the last couple of weeks, and they all feel like either network (2g/3g) or web browser (microb) related, but i'm not 100% sure. Sep 30 04:20:14 and i guess the fs isn't going to get better like that... :\ Sep 30 04:20:20 :/ Sep 30 04:20:40 i thought it was kernel power, so i put the stock kernel back last night. Sep 30 04:20:53 I've been having sim card problems :/ Sep 30 04:21:10 it's frustrating when shit doesn't work :) Sep 30 04:21:19 what sort of sim card problems? Sep 30 04:21:52 two days ago it lost signal 70 times in a day Sep 30 04:22:07 then I cleaned the springs and the sim card and it was like 30 Sep 30 04:22:46 and tonight it "only" broke 5 times after I used tweezers to elevate the sim card springy contacts on N900 a bit... :/ Sep 30 04:23:07 seems it happens when I move around alot, and when there's any pressure on N900 Sep 30 04:23:27 hmm Sep 30 04:23:33 ShadowJK: how old is your n900? Sep 30 04:23:40 over a year Sep 30 04:23:50 wifi is broken on mine :( Sep 30 04:23:50 or, well, close to a year Sep 30 04:23:54 just out of warranty ? ;) Sep 30 04:24:00 no it has 2 year warranty in eu Sep 30 04:24:57 ShadowJK: mine is 7 months and no sign of anything bad yet, but I am being very careful with the usb socket. Sep 30 04:25:10 andd I never switch it off Sep 30 04:25:26 my n900 is only about 5 months old :\ Sep 30 04:25:29 though I curse nokia for not making it dual sim Sep 30 04:25:47 i want dualsim too Sep 30 04:25:52 they haven't had dual sim since like 5510 or something :) Sep 30 04:26:00 and my damn wifi broke Sep 30 04:26:08 which was a few years before the one that appeared in the first matrix movie... Sep 30 04:26:19 yea - too much presssure from the mobile service providers who only one single sim devices Sep 30 04:26:42 redeeman: what do you mean "broke""? Sep 30 04:27:28 errors from the module saying it times out with some firmware Sep 30 04:27:36 and then if i try to up wlan0 it just uses 100% cpu Sep 30 04:27:46 i checked the md5sum of the firmware files and they are okay Sep 30 04:27:52 over here (asia) I can get good deals on wifi and gprs, but on different sims - so I woul d have to swap out the sims everytime - just not worth it Sep 30 04:28:12 redeeman: did you backup and reflaash ? Sep 30 04:28:23 i did not reflash, but i dont think thats gonna help Sep 30 04:28:26 this is kernel stuff failing Sep 30 04:28:29 and the kernel is fine Sep 30 04:28:35 and the wlan module is fine Sep 30 04:28:38 as is the firmware Sep 30 04:28:48 sounds like a corrupted driver or somesuch Sep 30 04:29:12 I'd reflash Sep 30 04:29:38 how would the reflash fix it? this is not userspace related Sep 30 04:29:47 ShadowJK: I had a dualsim converter for my old 6310i, a bit bulky, but a godsend Sep 30 04:30:09 redeeman: reflash is like - a fresh operating system Sep 30 04:30:32 i know, but i dont see how that works Sep 30 04:30:42 you see i dont subscribe to the "reinstall" to fix things solution Sep 30 04:30:44 redeeman: ok - do it your way ;) Sep 30 04:30:54 i know pretty much a lot about linux Sep 30 04:31:02 and reinstalling the same files wont fix stuff Sep 30 04:31:15 it will if your files are corrupted Sep 30 04:31:39 but what do I know - I have only reflashed mine 3 times Sep 30 04:31:41 which files? as i said, i already checked the kernel module and firmware files checksum Sep 30 04:31:56 i had a guy inhere post the md5sum Sep 30 04:32:01 heh Sep 30 04:32:07 you really won't listen ;) Sep 30 04:32:10 but i would apreciate if you could aswell Sep 30 04:32:16 nope Sep 30 04:32:21 reflash or die :D Sep 30 04:32:38 md5sum /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1/wl12xx.ko Sep 30 04:32:54 reflashing is a drastic measure that is not called for at this time Sep 30 04:33:06 theres 3 things involved here Sep 30 04:33:07 it's drastic it wifi is not working :p Sep 30 04:33:13 1: the kernel, 2: the kernel module, 3: the firmware files Sep 30 04:33:31 these things can be checked without reflashing Sep 30 04:33:35 yep three things - pride, stubborn-ness and whatever :) Sep 30 04:34:00 sorry dude - I gotta work Sep 30 04:34:24 okay Sep 30 04:34:35 anyone else that can post the md5sum of that file? Sep 30 04:39:12 i guess not Sep 30 04:52:03 alright, i'll remove fcam-drivers too... Sep 30 05:11:06 Hi! I'm just trying to follow these instructions: http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash#Solution_.231:_swap_.2Fhome_and_MyDocs_partition for solution 1 Sep 30 05:11:29 but when I run sfdisk --no-reread /dev/mmcblk0 < table all I get is invalid ioperation -- o Sep 30 05:11:37 what am I doing wrong? Sep 30 05:15:16 I ah i meant invalid option o Sep 30 05:17:09 uh, note that you can brick your device by messing up what you're doing Sep 30 05:19:05 try removing the "--no-reread" part and see if it still gives the same error (it should realise one of the partitions is mounted, and give an error to that effect -- this option is supposed to suppress that check, but if the problem is a command line switch parse error, this may help tell us that) Sep 30 05:19:37 ieatlint: nonsense Sep 30 05:19:48 I don't think I've heard of anyone ever bricking N900 so far Sep 30 05:20:39 eh, i define bricking a phone as making it unbootable.. the fact that it can be saved by putting it into a flash mode and reflashing is obviously relevant, but then we're just arguing terminology, which is about as pointless as it sounds Sep 30 05:20:48 N900 isn't a phone Sep 30 05:21:05 bricking means it's a brick. not recoverable. Sep 30 05:21:14 not good for anything but a paperweight Sep 30 05:21:15 ieatlint: The i get Device or resource busy Sep 30 05:21:50 fosstux: then for some reason, sfdisk is not parsing "--no-reread" correctly Sep 30 05:22:18 luke-jr_: then why are there so many guides out there for devices with phrases like "unbricking" in them? Sep 30 05:22:34 ieatlint: written by n00bs who don't know what bricking means ☺ Sep 30 05:22:56 as i said, a pointless terminology argument :P Sep 30 05:26:16 to the noobs with no skill, it is a brick to them Sep 30 05:26:29 skill = reading a howto Sep 30 05:26:34 lol Sep 30 05:52:58 is echo 0 > /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level equivalent to what maemo does to turn off screen? Sep 30 06:27:55 Hello,Is it just me or TuneWiki no longer works? :(,It says I need to update,but where to do so?there is nothing in App Manager's update Sep 30 06:54:38 _o/ Sep 30 06:56:03 ponies Sep 30 06:56:16 are fun in bed Sep 30 06:58:13 o_o Sep 30 07:01:57 wtf Sep 30 07:03:48 :D Sep 30 07:59:11 Morning, all Sep 30 08:01:01 morning Jaffa Sep 30 08:13:53 hi, shouldn't the debian packages provided for maemo be converted to store their data on the partition mounted on /opt? Sep 30 08:14:24 in almost all cases yes but not all the time Sep 30 08:15:18 I just tried GNU screen and it doesn't obey this guideline Sep 30 08:16:12 that's probably because its small enough to fit on root partition or for PATH's sake its easier Sep 30 08:17:20 yeah, around 1.5MB, but if you install a few dozens such packages it's easily filling up the rootfs Sep 30 08:18:17 if it bothers you that much, you may as well move them yourself and either symlink it or change PATH Sep 30 08:19:09 plus normally rootfs should have around 60 odd MB free, there's not many GNU console tools that would use rootfs space when you think about it Sep 30 08:19:38 yeah Sep 30 08:19:52 * psycho_oreos still has 43MB of rootfs free considering he's already installed a fair few GNU console tools Sep 30 08:20:34 FWIW the screen package is from the maemo tools repository, so maybe that hasn't been converted Sep 30 08:20:59 I installed a few othe rtools myself, and most were properly stored in /home/opt Sep 30 08:21:01 or you mean its from scratchbox repos? Sep 30 08:21:38 see the 3rd post of this thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55295 Sep 30 08:23:47 it looks like its part of repos to be used with scratchbox/chroot environment Sep 30 08:24:03 or simply put SDK environment Sep 30 08:24:15 ok, my fault then Sep 30 08:24:19 hence the reason why Sep 30 08:24:29 http://repository.maemo.org/#sdk_repositories Sep 30 08:24:35 I'm a newbie (yesterday I bought the n900) Sep 30 08:24:48 thanks Sep 30 08:24:52 heh Sep 30 08:25:00 we all had to start from somewhere Sep 30 08:25:14 it's really great Sep 30 08:25:55 I personally also use SDK repos on my n900, despite the warnings, all the other standard repos lack the console tools that I desire Sep 30 08:26:31 the only issue is that you might end up screwing things if you're not careful but otherwise there's plenty of tools inside sdk Sep 30 08:26:47 I only installed screen from there Sep 30 08:28:01 I know I have installed dpkg-dev along with dpkg-repack from that repo (or some of it may come from extras-{testing,devel}) Sep 30 08:28:20 is there any good reason for not having tools like screen in the standard repos? Sep 30 08:28:45 probably because not many users like to use console tools me thinks :D Sep 30 08:29:13 they just like the fancy GUI and touching it rather than having to type out commands all the time Sep 30 08:30:04 indeed, but there are some tools I grew addicted of, and screen is one of them Sep 30 08:31:45 there's lots of tools on command line that I love to use.. the whole GUI thing to me owes CLI dependency, without GUI many users whom are used to using it would freak out at the sign of CLI Sep 30 08:32:13 Hello,Is it just me or TuneWiki no longer works? :(,It says I need to update,but where to do so?there is nothing in App Manager's update Sep 30 09:19:28 iphone queue in finland: http://www.digitoday.fi/files/200_Elisan_iPhone_4_-jono.jpg Sep 30 09:20:38 heh Sep 30 09:20:46 ^^ Sep 30 09:21:15 postage-stamp sized jpg Sep 30 09:21:28 does jpg store dpi info? Sep 30 09:21:35 ;) Sep 30 09:23:13 well, at 200x150 its postage-stamp anyway :) Sep 30 09:24:14 ah, yeah, in n900 of course :) Sep 30 09:24:23 >selling iphones in nokialand Sep 30 09:24:32 i'm surprised there's someone Sep 30 09:25:37 nothing special about that.. n900 was also sold in appleland Sep 30 09:26:07 you mean, cupertino? Sep 30 09:27:27 I dunno about that place but I do know that n900 can be bought in stateside :) nothing special really Sep 30 09:27:57 nokia only has retail outlets in new york and chicago :P Sep 30 09:28:02 otherwise, it's online sales Sep 30 09:28:06 kerio: must be expats or tourists :D Sep 30 09:28:40 wouldn't some phone retailers retail n900 over there in stateside? Sep 30 09:28:55 phone retailers don't exist really Sep 30 09:28:55 considering n900 has phone functionality, it would be sold off as a phone lol Sep 30 09:29:05 that's interesting Sep 30 09:29:26 95% of consumers buy phones that are marketed by mobile carriers Sep 30 09:29:51 and the carriers give hardware discounts in exchange for them signing multi-year contracts with the carrier Sep 30 09:30:01 well yeah there's that option as well, and wouldn't n900 be marketed by mobile carrier/s over there? Sep 30 09:30:29 there are 4 major carriers in the US, two CDMA, two GSM/UMTS Sep 30 09:30:39 and the two UMTS carriers operate on incompatible frequencies Sep 30 09:30:56 so consumers have no idea what will work unless the carrier themselves market it Sep 30 09:31:10 lol that's messed up Sep 30 09:31:17 in the US, T-Mobile is the only carrier to work with the UMTS on the N900 Sep 30 09:31:31 no vodaphone? Sep 30 09:31:32 and it's too niche.. Sep 30 09:31:37 no vodaphone Sep 30 09:32:05 heh that's really messed up Sep 30 09:32:15 we have virgin mobile, but it's this weird shit that works on CDMA and just re-uses another carrier's network (they sub-contract) Sep 30 09:33:20 psycho_oreos: messed ? wait until you hear that there are plans that make you pay to RECEIVE sms-es Sep 30 09:33:21 ieatlint: who needs standards or government intervention Sep 30 09:33:26 the free market regulates itself, right Sep 30 09:33:34 :P Sep 30 09:33:58 there are reasons why it's like this Sep 30 09:34:12 achipa, that's nothing new out where I live :) they're deemed as premium SMS and there are dodgy operators who abuse the premium service by luring users to sign up to them Sep 30 09:34:18 we have a gov body that regulates radio frequencies Sep 30 09:34:23 because interoperability would benefit consumers but not phone companies? Sep 30 09:34:24 yeah FCC :D Sep 30 09:34:28 the standard UMTS freqs were already in use Sep 30 09:34:59 tmobile bought freqs that were previously reserved by the US gov for its own use to roll out their 3g network Sep 30 09:35:14 and after investing billions, they weren't about to let their competitor use it freely Sep 30 09:35:27 so ATT reused frequencies from GSM Sep 30 09:35:40 thus, we have two sets of UMTS frequencies that are essentially US-only Sep 30 09:36:12 most 3g handsets support one of them... the iphone supports ATT and the rest of the world, for instance Sep 30 09:36:28 achipa, if you thought that was bad, you have never heard of unlimited internet usage :) out here the wording of unlimited meant certain specified download/upload usage until cap is reached and then you're shaped.. prior to that, they just charge you per extra MB you exceed.. on mobile network, there's no such thing as capping so if you go over you foot the bill Sep 30 09:36:35 it's more of an unfortunate set of circumstances than a specific intent to be proprietary Sep 30 09:37:08 s/bill/extra bill/ Sep 30 09:37:08 psycho_oreos meant: achipa, if you thought that was bad, you have never heard of unlimited internet usage :) out here the wording of unlimited meant certain specified download/upload usage until cap is reached and then you're shaped.. prior to that, they just charge you per ... Sep 30 09:37:10 psycho_oreos: we have both here Sep 30 09:37:32 it costs money to receive sms, yes Sep 30 09:37:57 ieatlint, I've heard some mobile operators offer true unlimited there.. but then again your monthly quota isn't as small as ours I bet :D unless you live out in the bush/country Sep 30 09:38:05 and most data plans are "unlimited", but tethering is not allowed Sep 30 09:38:26 heh usb ip ;) Sep 30 09:38:33 if you exceed a certain amount, they will simply say that you must be tethering to use that much data Sep 30 09:38:48 they don't typically charge you extra though.. they just restrict you to EDGE speeds Sep 30 09:39:06 i think tmobile is around 2GB/mo... don't know for others Sep 30 09:39:09 that's not that bad, here they don't care.. they'll just charge you Sep 30 09:39:39 you pay extra MB you exceed ontop of your regular bill regardless of how much you exceed for wireless internet Sep 30 09:39:50 s/internet/broadband/ Sep 30 09:39:50 psycho_oreos meant: you pay extra MB you exceed ontop of your regular bill regardless of how much you exceed for wireless broadband Sep 30 09:41:18 fun stuff Sep 30 09:41:28 simply put, we're all getting screwed Sep 30 09:42:06 and its funny because we're the ones paying them to keep them afloat Sep 30 09:42:19 so they see us as pure milking cows Sep 30 09:43:11 roaming is where they hit you bad with our carriers Sep 30 09:44:02 i take my phone to london, and it's $0.015/KB data, $0.35 to send SMS, $1.99/minute to make calls to the US or UK (extra for UK mobile phones) Sep 30 09:44:33 receiving sms is free, but only because i have an unlimited sms plan, otherwise it'd be the same cost to receive sms as it is here in the states -- $0.15 if i recall right Sep 30 09:45:41 roaming here is worse imo.. one of my wireless broadband will only offer 5MB whilst roaming.. any exceeds will be charged per MB whilst using another carrier Sep 30 09:48:27 yes, the conclusion is we're all getting raped :P Sep 30 09:48:45 and the n900 is extremely rare where i live Sep 30 09:48:45 and I'd still prefer to be capped rather than get charged because I accidentally went over the specified quota.. wireless broadband usage monitoring is not updated frequently (takes about 24-48 hours) and during that time one can easily exceed that amount by forgetting to add the potential delays :) Sep 30 09:49:04 i've been 4 other N900s here Sep 30 09:49:11 3 of which were at a meego event Sep 30 09:49:32 i sold a spare one to mozilla though, so maybe i can say 5 :P Sep 30 09:49:34 and I'd stil prefer to be capped rather than getting charged because if I accident went over the specified quota I won't have to foot the extra bill* Sep 30 09:49:40 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11435639 Sep 30 09:49:43 Heh Sep 30 09:49:57 I'm the only n900 user myself within my circle Sep 30 10:00:50 psycho_oreos: bandwidth monitor Sep 30 10:03:04 kerio, yes I have similar tools for those but even so, its quite stupid how the providers love to charge you for excess usage on top of your regular bill payments to them and not have their own site updated more frequently rather than leaving the end user to be more cautious? or isn't that defeating the whole concept of trying to make your money's worth and to be milked because you have to be cautious but then could miss out unused quota? :) Sep 30 10:07:55 is this script still supposed to work? (with n900) http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Make_a_phone_call_via_SIP Sep 30 10:12:27 hy, I need some help with this ugly c prog: http://pastebin.com/ku6kdE4M . (I'm using this si4713.h : http://pastebin.com/ypVe631P) . My problem is that I alway get "Invalid argument" when trying to get the noise level of the radio :( . Anyone has an idea about whats wrong? Sep 30 10:13:14 or could this just be incompatibel with the kernel? Sep 30 10:14:00 strace Sep 30 10:14:05 and compare kernel sources Sep 30 10:14:19 that's c++, not c Sep 30 10:17:25 spam on planet.m.o? Sep 30 10:17:58 flexxxv: not sure what your exact problem is, but line 28 should be deleted (if fd isn't opened, don't try and close it), and 38 should just be "rnl.frequency = atoi( argv[1] );" instead of using sscanf() Sep 30 10:18:02 flexxxv: that's not going to work Sep 30 10:18:14 flexxxv: there are two drivers in kernel sources Sep 30 10:18:24 flexxxv: and that code works with one that's not used by nokia Sep 30 10:19:45 ieatlint: you are right! deleted this line... must be sleeping yesterdaying... Sep 30 10:20:10 i guess the fact that no application can get a gps fix despite having >3 satellites in view is a standard problem on n900? ;) Sep 30 10:20:11 * satmd hands a cup of coffee to flexxxv Sep 30 10:20:13 a BIG cup Sep 30 10:20:23 flexxxv: no worries... sounds like my kind of day :P Sep 30 10:20:24 dRbiG: it takes ages Sep 30 10:20:30 better a book for c++ ;) Sep 30 10:20:32 dRbiG: if you don't have internet connection Sep 30 10:20:45 I only have the o'reilly reference for c++ myself Sep 30 10:21:03 K&R Sep 30 10:21:06 jacekowski: so /dev/radio1 is used by the non nokia driver? Sep 30 10:21:11 no Sep 30 10:21:17 jacekowski: i have internet connection here Sep 30 10:21:21 take a look into sources Sep 30 10:21:26 ./media/radio/si4713.c Sep 30 10:21:29 ./media/radio/radio-si4713.c Sep 30 10:21:49 two drivers Sep 30 10:22:01 radio-si4713.c is the one you need Sep 30 10:22:09 but on n900 si4713.c is used Sep 30 10:22:52 and only one driver for one device right? so this has to fail. :( Sep 30 10:23:31 the linux kernel has a feature for bind/unbinding drivers Sep 30 10:23:36 I'm not sure it is enabled for n900 Sep 30 10:23:59 but if it is... and your other driver has the right aliases for the device, this could work Sep 30 10:29:45 so i need to compile radio-si4713.c for kenel. unload si4713.c . Load radio-si4713.c and then run my app? Sep 30 10:31:44 did anyone try to use nokia headsets made for other devices (with more buttons) on a N900? Sep 30 10:32:03 yeah, i tried one Sep 30 10:32:06 doesn't work Sep 30 10:32:11 I have a headset for N97 and didn't either Sep 30 10:32:28 i tried a iphone headset Sep 30 10:32:32 I wonder if it's a hardware or software issue Sep 30 10:32:32 all it did was buzz in my ear Sep 30 10:32:40 stupid video out :/ Sep 30 10:33:02 this one sounds fine, but the buttons aren't working Sep 30 10:36:02 don't push it in all the way Sep 30 10:36:08 leave like 1mm out, should work Sep 30 10:36:14 though you may have mono output only Sep 30 10:36:34 doesn't really work Sep 30 10:36:49 it can get audio out Sep 30 10:37:01 but it just plays the difference between the stereo channels Sep 30 10:38:03 multibutton wired headsets aren't supported by the mafw or whatever kernel driver handling the AV connector hw Sep 30 10:39:50 from comparing N95 and N900 schematics I'd guess we could get community driven support for those multibutton headsets as soon as somebody manages to figure out the exact protocol they use Sep 30 10:40:51 crashanddie: that's really nonsense Sep 30 10:42:13 crashanddie: give the fact the top two contacts in N900 (and any Nokia AV) receptacle are left, right; while 3rd and 4th (base) contact are Mic and Gnd Sep 30 10:42:30 it makes no sense to plug in anything half way Sep 30 10:43:14 except if you got a mono headset and you're interested in the right chan of output only Sep 30 10:43:49 even then I doubt it'll work with vast najority of usual plugs Sep 30 10:45:18 nevertheless Apple actually has a 3.5mm plug that's 1mm *longer* than normal. You MUST NOT insert those overlength plugs all the way down, otherwise your device might break Sep 30 10:45:22 ~2119 Sep 30 10:45:23 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Sep 30 10:45:46 well, to be honest Sep 30 10:45:55 it wasn't a apple headset Sep 30 10:46:05 it was a razer moray Sep 30 10:48:10 there's lots of brainfarts in industry about how headsets' plugs should be built Sep 30 10:48:27 Nokia has chosen an utterly sane and reasonable approach Sep 30 10:48:48 which doesn't mean each abomination will be compatible Sep 30 10:49:20 utterly sane? Sep 30 10:49:42 http://members.omtp.org/Lists/ReqPublications/Attachments/36/OMTP_Local_Connectivity_Wired_Analogue_Audio_v1_0.pdf Sep 30 10:49:45 yes Sep 30 10:50:30 read that pdf and learn both how to write specs and how to build proper AV Sep 30 10:56:05 N900 is absolutely compliant to OMTP LC requirements Sep 30 10:56:44 as are all other Nokia devices since 2007, afaik Sep 30 11:09:50 ok new plan ;) how should I communicate with a device that uses i2c communication bus if I'm using c++? just using /sys/class/i2c-adapter/? Sep 30 11:12:03 yes? Sep 30 11:12:14 if there's no dedicated kernel driver... Sep 30 11:12:30 in which case the former approach will fail Sep 30 11:12:47 so just write "echo 1 > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/somthing" in c++? Sep 30 11:13:08 sigh Sep 30 11:13:46 *should get a book about c c++ and linux kernel and harware programmin* :D Sep 30 11:13:59 system("echo this is a noobs printf line in C") Sep 30 11:14:29 I mean just translate this to c++ ... Sep 30 11:14:40 lol :D Sep 30 11:18:21 flexxxv: if there's a sysfs node that takes ascii writes like "1" then you write "1" to that node, no matter which language Sep 30 11:19:32 the beauty of Unix: everything looks very similar regardless of the used coding paradigm, and just everything is a file Sep 30 11:20:06 crashanddie: Hi, I got the kernel from MohammedAG working which has cfg80211 not built-in the kernel. However the injection driver crashes after insertion: http://pastebin.com/c3hPtZmE But I should now be able to compile a recent version with compat-wireless, however the n900 doesn't seem to like the config.mk, do you have a static version, which doesn't need autoconf? Sep 30 11:21:08 crashanddie: MohammadAG51: ^^^ Sep 30 11:23:53 Doc: FAIL Sep 30 11:24:16 Doc: You want beauty, go Plan9 Sep 30 11:26:40 x Sep 30 11:27:49 RST38h: sorry? Sep 30 11:36:46 does anyone in here know if my unlimited price plan for three SE also will take affect on Ireland three network? Sep 30 11:36:49 s/price/data/ Sep 30 11:36:50 FIQ|n900 meant: does anyone in here know if my unlimited data plan for three SE also will take affect on Ireland three network? Sep 30 11:37:35 In denmark it worked fine, but it may be because it's scandinavic as well Sep 30 11:38:45 Well, plan9 *was* designed to be Unix "as it intended to be". But actual implementation is said to be full of ugly kludges as well :-( Sep 30 11:40:31 dude, just wait for hurd, it's going to be *awesome* Sep 30 12:00:10 lol Sep 30 12:05:57 who was the user who asked about other cmdline apps broken due to CR key mapped to NK-Enter instead of proper Return? Here's another example: htop Sep 30 12:07:41 you can rebind it Sep 30 12:09:00 anyway to auto format a script with tabs? I've found a long scripts that is hard to read because of issing tabs :( Sep 30 12:09:12 docscrutinizer, it's plain annoying, but ctrl-j has worked for me Sep 30 12:09:43 ctrl-m here, iirc Sep 30 12:10:28 possibly so, ctrl-j might be an emacsism Sep 30 12:12:24 one is cr, the other nl (0x10, 0x13) Sep 30 12:12:48 and various stty modes remap one to the other or vice versa Sep 30 12:13:34 depending on stty usualy one is translated to the other Sep 30 12:13:48 lol, yes Sep 30 12:16:10 stty -echo Sep 30 12:17:18 mainwindow.h:6:33: error: QMaemo5InformationBox: No such file or directory Sep 30 12:17:22 grr, wtf? Sep 30 12:17:49 this probably has no effect for programs like less / or htop search though Sep 30 12:18:28 w00t_, poke, you use it in facebrick :) Sep 30 12:18:36 QT += maemo5 Sep 30 12:19:53 oh, pro file Sep 30 12:19:57 thanks :) Sep 30 12:38:30 iDent, Apple's new electric toothbrush Sep 30 12:40:16 naw, I thought it dents cars Sep 30 12:40:31 * MohammadAG cancels order Sep 30 12:42:54 where is the save folder for maep? Sep 30 13:12:19 yawn Sep 30 13:41:52 quit Sep 30 13:46:40 <[PG]Aex> Elo Sep 30 13:54:37 hi [PG]Aex Sep 30 13:54:42 wejp: "In other words, the U.S. Government is taking exactly the position of the UAE and the Saudis: no communications are permitted to be beyond the surveillance reach of U.S. authorities." Sep 30 13:54:47 you http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/obama-administration.html Sep 30 13:54:51 <[PG]Aex> Hows it hanging?=) Sep 30 13:55:11 The mother fucking cock sucking assholes want to spy on you Sep 30 13:55:49 MohammadAG: I have got your kernel working (omap1), the zImage file was corrupted, so I extracted it from the deb and converted it. Flashed it and copied cfg80211, it does work however the injection stuff reboots the kernel. Sep 30 13:56:11 <[PG]Aex> o.O Sep 30 13:58:57 tobis87, oh cool, so your phone booted up :P Sep 30 13:59:38 Yes, the default modules are compatible, but the injection stuff is not http://pastebin.com/c3hPtZmE Sep 30 14:01:41 But it should now be possible to use a newer version of the driver, could you try compiling http://www.orbit-lab.org/kernel/compat-wireless-2.6-stable/v2.6.35/compat-wireless-2.6.35-1.tar.bz2 in scratchbox with the modified omap1 kernel header files? The autoconf stuff gives me headaches on the device. Sep 30 14:03:48 since I don't have scratchbox, I compile on the device... But this autoconf script config.mk totally gets messed up. Sep 30 14:09:01 You have to run in the folder ./scripts/driver-select wl12xx; make Sep 30 14:18:09 i recently wrote a qt desktop widget for the n900 using the qmaemo5homescreenadaptor class as provided in the example Sep 30 14:18:28 everything works as expected, but when i remove my widget from the desktop, the process zombies Sep 30 14:18:55 hehe Sep 30 14:19:09 anyone else have this experience, or know if there's somethign you're supposed to do cleanup-wise? Sep 30 14:23:54 http://blogs.forbes.com/firewall/2010/09/29/did-the-stuxnet-worm-kill-indias-insat-4b-satellite/ Sep 30 14:26:37 darrik: aiui all desktop widgets are started by a single hildon desktop process inside that context. That's why a single broken widget can make whole desktop fail, or at least no widgets are loaded that come after the broken one in sequence of startup. (disclaimer: all AIUI and AFAIK!). Maybe this is also related when it comes to stopping a widget. Try killall hildon-desktop - it'll restart automatically Sep 30 14:27:06 heh, our stuxnet performs really better than expected :-D Sep 30 14:28:49 hello Sep 30 14:29:03 is there anyone help me? Sep 30 14:29:08 DocScrutinizer, hildon-desktop doesn't handle widgets Sep 30 14:29:12 hildon-home does Sep 30 14:30:22 Could you get it to compile? Sep 30 14:30:24 MohammadAG: k, still I think a killall h-d will aslo reload all widgets Sep 30 14:30:45 Maemo: just ask Sep 30 14:30:48 h-h* Sep 30 14:30:50 i cant instal apps via synaptic package manager what should i do? my error is : subprocess rm cleanup returned error exit status 1 Sep 30 14:31:03 tobis87, ? Sep 30 14:31:40 i have synaptic package manager with easydebian Sep 30 14:31:48 plz help me Sep 30 14:31:58 Maemo: does apt-get work? Sep 30 14:32:19 Maemo good nick and name i would say Sep 30 14:32:32 MohammadAG: (16:00:56) tobis87: But it should now be possible to use a newer version of the driver, could you try compiling http://www.orbit-lab.org/kernel/compat-wireless-2.6-stable/v2.6.35/compat-wireless-2.6.35-1.tar.bz2 in scratchbox with the modified omap1 kernel header files? The autoconf stuff gives me headaches on the device. Sep 30 14:32:46 no unable to install aplications!l Sep 30 14:32:59 * ZogG is back to troll DocScrutinizer Sep 30 14:33:07 MohammadAG: (16:08:15) tobis87: You have to run in the folder ./scripts/driver-select wl12xx; make Sep 30 14:34:22 ZogG: Maemo: I'll not agree with ZogG here. 'maemo' is one of the 'reserved words' and shouldn't be used for nicks, like 'admin' or 'freenode' or 'staff' or 'root' Sep 30 14:34:54 Maemo: Could you try to install the app in the console, as root, apt-get install appname. And post the error on pastebin Sep 30 14:34:59 DocScrutinizer do bot understand ~wiki? Sep 30 14:35:06 ~wiki sarcasm Sep 30 14:35:10 At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{worldwide view}} 'Sarcasm' is “a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter jibe or taunt.” Oxford English Dictionary Some authorities sharply distinguish sarcasm from irony, Eric Partridge, "Usage and Abusage", Penguin, 1969. “Irony must not be confused with sarcasm, which is direct: sarcasm means precisely what it says, but in a sharp, caustic, ... manner." ... Sep 30 14:35:21 DocScrutinizer ^ Sep 30 14:35:30 no i cant Sep 30 14:35:43 check his name, he is n900 - so it's ok Sep 30 14:35:51 i cant install any app hmm:( Sep 30 14:36:25 Maemo look it as a good thing, it's not that you can't — you just don't need Sep 30 14:36:26 I'll check his registration, and evetually kick him Sep 30 14:36:39 DocScrutinizer i think he is from phone Sep 30 14:36:52 should i change my nick? Sep 30 14:37:00 Maemo use /nick user_4_help Sep 30 14:37:01 yes, much appreciated Sep 30 14:37:06 Maemo yes Sep 30 14:37:14 okok Sep 30 14:37:17 Yes, but the console is a bit more verbose... So we can see what the problem is Sep 30 14:37:57 parsapersian if you use xchat on n900 i would recommend you to make autonick for any nick you wish Sep 30 14:38:22 oh tnx :) Sep 30 14:38:32 * lardman watches the tumbleweeds drift past in #qt-maemo Sep 30 14:38:33 Wondering, as the browser in the N900 is mozilla derived, does it support firefox/mozilla addons? Sep 30 14:38:39 but what should i do with synaptic?! Sep 30 14:38:45 yacc: somewhat Sep 30 14:38:46 (ad block is personal favorite, ...) Sep 30 14:38:59 * MohammadAG looks at the tumbleweed lardman's staring at Sep 30 14:38:59 yacc: mostly no, due to the UI changes Sep 30 14:39:31 lool Sep 30 14:39:43 how do I sync my ovi contacts w/ google contacts? Sep 30 14:39:45 :S Sep 30 14:44:07 extras repository seems to be back up as far as i can see? Sep 30 14:48:09 installing stuff from extras, seems to work fine... Sep 30 14:55:33 talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=830128#post830128 Sep 30 14:55:56 topic Sep 30 14:56:26 delt ? Sep 30 14:56:46 Also this is #maemo, NOT #nitdroid | *** extras repository is temporarily broken *** Sep 30 14:56:52 (topic) Sep 30 14:57:23 of this channel Sep 30 14:57:27 what about it Sep 30 14:57:35 what about it Sep 30 14:57:36 still says extras repo is down Sep 30 14:57:55 it's not a live status thingy Sep 30 14:58:08 * MohammadAG pokes DocScrutinizer and crashanddie Sep 30 14:58:33 well, i'd expect irc to be more up to date than a web page, no? Sep 30 14:59:06 I'm not an op Sep 30 14:59:46 nerf op Sep 30 14:59:56 actually what's the point of saying "extras is down" in the topic? Sep 30 15:00:08 less spam Sep 30 15:00:10 the topic is far too long! Sep 30 15:00:12 to avoid repeating it alover Sep 30 15:00:21 meh language fail Sep 30 15:00:28 topic is too long Sep 30 15:00:52 Myrtti, then when someone asks a silly question just point them at a FAQ page :P Sep 30 15:01:00 they still ask anyway Sep 30 15:01:02 bye all Sep 30 15:01:06 have good time Sep 30 15:01:08 we just say "look at topic" Sep 30 15:01:09 Skype is INCLUDED in the N900. Unless you live in India, that is. | Also this is #maemo, NOT #nitdroid | *** extras repository is temporarily broken *** see http://paste.debian.net/92454/ aren't really needed Sep 30 15:01:11 like if ppl can't find maemo.org if they can find in here :) Sep 30 15:01:28 why do we mention nitdorid at all in the title? Sep 30 15:02:03 * lcuk takes himself away again Sep 30 15:02:30 provide proof it's really fixed for *all* of the repo servers in akamai serverfarm, and I'll change the topic Sep 30 15:02:45 hey guys :) Sep 30 15:02:58 the usb connector on my n900 has just become loose :( Sep 30 15:03:01 lcuseems crashanddie felt like mentioning it Sep 30 15:03:07 and come out of the device Sep 30 15:03:14 lcuk ^^^ Sep 30 15:03:16 meh Sep 30 15:03:17 i was just wondering why the topic still said "extras repository is temporarily broken" ...if i had checked here first instead of on the tablet, then i wouldn't be installing apps from it now. Sep 30 15:04:23 Get. Over. It. We aren't all nerd flingers constantly pinging the repos to see weather they have come back up Sep 30 15:04:53 is this a known problem? Sep 30 15:05:30 ok, so now you know that extras is back up. Sep 30 15:06:13 :D Sep 30 15:06:18 crashanddie: where's the proof I asked for? Sep 30 15:06:31 oh, you asked for proof? Sep 30 15:06:45 delt: don't teach us about thinks you don't really wrap your head around Sep 30 15:06:52 oh, my bad. Sep 30 15:07:00 DocScrutinizer: sorry my bad too Sep 30 15:07:34 docscrutinizer: apologies, didn't see your comment. Sep 30 15:07:46 * crashanddie slaps delt for inducing him in error. Sep 30 15:07:54 delt: if you had bothered to look at the URL page, you'd maybe undertsand it's related to loadbalancing and problem occurs on a part of the machines only Sep 30 15:07:57 were you pregnant? Sep 30 15:08:13 * lardman wonders why crashanddie had to be induced Sep 30 15:08:34 * lardman glances back at #qt-maemo and even the tumbleweeds are gone now Sep 30 15:09:58 well, i "bothered" to come here and mention that extras seems to be working perfectly from here, that's all. sorry for the confusion Sep 30 15:10:30 lardman, induction has to do with pregnancy? I should warn my girlfriend if she feels like cooking again. Sep 30 15:11:13 well they "induce" a woman who's late, etc. Sep 30 15:11:32 not using indiction heating mind you, afaik anyway Sep 30 15:11:39 induction even Sep 30 15:14:11 the topic is far too long! no it's not Sep 30 15:14:15 you see it only once Sep 30 15:14:19 when you log in Sep 30 15:14:30 and than if you don't need any info you don't watch it Sep 30 15:14:39 and if you do - you don't care it to be long Sep 30 15:14:50 as you want some info and as more as possible =) Sep 30 15:15:03 ZogG, tl;dr effect Sep 30 15:15:09 people won't read a topic if it's too long Sep 30 15:15:27 is there an application to play a random ringtone every sms, call, etc? Sep 30 15:15:29 especially if 90% of it doesn't ever change Sep 30 15:15:38 instead of one chosen one Sep 30 15:15:40 mgedmin and if it's short - you don;t need it Sep 30 15:15:47 opdf2: no Sep 30 15:15:50 it's the question of IRC policy Sep 30 15:15:50 afaik Sep 30 15:15:56 for values of short equal to 0 characters Sep 30 15:16:14 mgedmin: less than or equal to surely ;) Sep 30 15:16:21 if you have been on different chans for enuf time you would read topic for most important news before asking Sep 30 15:24:31 and most typically, people who ask dumb questions are the people who don't read topics Sep 30 15:26:17 ok well, thanks for the info, sorry for the confusion, and for thinking this irc channel was the most up to date source of info etc etc.... Sep 30 15:26:25 bbl Sep 30 15:27:57 haha Sep 30 15:28:14 Hi! I'd like to install barriosquare - but where can I find it? Its not in extras... Sep 30 15:28:44 i hate when people i pissed of when someone didn't do for them what they expected. damn, noone here is paid for it! just do something usefull urself ( Sep 30 15:28:54 fosstux extra-devs Sep 30 15:30:24 ZogG: what is the url for extras-devel for app manager? Sep 30 15:31:37 same as extras but with -devel tacked on the end ;) Sep 30 15:31:50 there should already be an entry for extras btw Sep 30 15:33:08 ah thanks Sep 30 15:33:21 for extras, yes - not extras-devel Sep 30 15:33:43 fosstux don't remmeber - you can find it on TMO or MO Sep 30 15:33:51 yep, copy the extras settings and add -devel to the end of the url Sep 30 15:34:23 shame HAM doesn't allow one to copy then edit an existing repo Sep 30 15:38:14 do it by hand Sep 30 15:38:16 with nano Sep 30 15:38:18 or vim Sep 30 15:38:19 or vi Sep 30 15:38:20 or mcedit Sep 30 15:39:00 jacekowski: or emacs Sep 30 15:39:04 jacekowski: or ooo Sep 30 15:39:10 or wine and ms word Sep 30 15:39:21 nope Sep 30 15:39:28 ooo or word will mess up your line endings Sep 30 15:40:01 apt-get install dos2unix Sep 30 15:43:00 jacekowski: :) Sep 30 15:43:15 tr Sep 30 15:43:27 awk Sep 30 15:55:51 so. looks like gentoo-on-n8x0 supports screen dimming and turning off :P Sep 30 15:56:25 anyone knows how maemo changes wifi powersavings? Sep 30 15:57:01 icd probably manages it Sep 30 15:58:40 yeah, but what it does to wifi? Sep 30 16:00:36 iwconfig wlan0 power saving N doesn't work Sep 30 16:00:46 we don't have icd sources? Sep 30 16:01:12 indeed. Sep 30 16:01:15 to install gcc on maemo 5, i should follow these instructions... Sep 30 16:01:20 http://ossguy.com/?p=475 Sep 30 16:01:30 what do you mean by 'what does it do'. Sep 30 16:01:31 njain: okay Sep 30 16:01:55 SpeedEvil: well, it should end up either calling some ioctl or writing to sysfs Sep 30 16:02:17 ah - indeed. Sep 30 16:02:28 I was wondering if you were meaning on the RF side Sep 30 16:02:54 guys would really appreciate any help on this. usb connector has become loose and fell out of my n900!! Sep 30 16:03:15 no, i just want to know how it tells what savings to use to kernel Sep 30 16:03:31 technomike: known issue, use warranty service Sep 30 16:03:38 ah :) Sep 30 16:03:40 thanks Sep 30 16:03:47 so nokia care will fix it? Sep 30 16:04:10 yes, give them shit if they refuse until they do Sep 30 16:04:12 technomike: yes. however they might initially try to reject you Sep 30 16:04:40 technomike: nokia officially said they do support fixing this problem Sep 30 16:05:26 technomike: backup first, most likely they will just replace whole motherboard Sep 30 16:05:51 ah ok. i think i understand then. lucky then really Sep 30 16:05:53 in some cases, i heard, they just soldered connector back Sep 30 16:06:11 * wmarone is lucky, very lucky Sep 30 16:06:27 oh no. i cannot backup because its the usb connection. Sep 30 16:06:38 back up to an SD card Sep 30 16:07:07 ah yeah good idea lol. forgot about sd card support. Sep 30 16:07:20 or via wifi Sep 30 16:07:31 hurry up, you can't charge now :) Sep 30 16:08:00 oh yeah! Sep 30 16:08:06 how to use wifi? Sep 30 16:08:33 backup to builtin sd and then copy backup toother machine Sep 30 16:08:43 45% charge :o oh no Sep 30 16:08:47 or upload it to a safe place Sep 30 16:09:12 dunno how long repair will take, mine took 3 weeks Sep 30 16:09:27 i don't have a sd card available right now. would have to borrow one. Sep 30 16:10:10 copy it via ssh/send via blueooth/upload as a gmail attachement :) Sep 30 16:10:15 oh no :o 3 weeks !! Sep 30 16:10:51 i am going to an event next saturday. don't have a camera available so i was going to use n900 Sep 30 16:10:56 oh well :( Sep 30 16:11:02 just my luck!! Sep 30 16:11:47 that's normal repair time in this country :) Sep 30 16:12:06 what country are you in ? :) Sep 30 16:12:15 i am in UK Sep 30 16:12:43 3 weeks without a n900?!!!?! Sep 30 16:12:48 *shock* *horror* Sep 30 16:12:55 maybe I'd better buy a spare now before mine breaks Sep 30 16:13:10 exactly mgedmin :( Sep 30 16:13:57 i am using my n900 as my computer until new laptop i am waiting for is released since i had an accident with my last laptop :( Sep 30 16:15:45 technomike: did your n900 fall while being on charger? :) Sep 30 16:16:50 yeah :( exactly Sep 30 16:17:08 accident :( Sep 30 16:17:32 * crashanddie is writing an LDAP server... lol Sep 30 16:17:38 i'm not sure repair center needs to know that :) Sep 30 16:17:51 haha :) Sep 30 16:18:09 i will just say it suddenly became loose Sep 30 16:18:25 what if they say they will not repair it? Sep 30 16:18:49 or is it a known issue that they fix? Sep 30 16:18:51 I have problems refreshing extras-devel. Sep 30 16:18:56 I get error 404 Sep 30 16:19:17 although I copied the extras url and added -devel Sep 30 16:19:44 technomike: nokia officially said n900 warranty covers falling off usb connectors. you can google it up and take a printed copy with you Sep 30 16:20:18 ah :D Sep 30 16:20:27 brilliant Sep 30 16:21:51 many many thanks for your help! really appreciate it :D Sep 30 16:22:13 i will have to go now (i am on n900) Sep 30 16:35:30 Hi Sep 30 16:35:46 hi Sep 30 16:35:55 why is it that i have to set up the IP address of my WiFi connection manually on my N900 , or else it wont connect normally Sep 30 16:36:11 even the DNS Sep 30 16:36:41 and you don't have to on some other device? Sep 30 16:37:09 yes Sep 30 16:37:25 on my N95 all WiFi's connect automatically to any networks Sep 30 16:37:35 on the N900 i have to do it manually for my home network Sep 30 16:38:44 and you enabled checkboxed "get ip/dns automatically" in connection settings? Sep 30 16:39:05 i did that previously it didn't work Sep 30 16:39:13 i now have to set all the details manually Sep 30 16:39:19 is it "even dns doesn't get set" or "only dns doesn't get set"? Sep 30 16:39:40 (since i saw some dns-on-n900 troubles) Sep 30 16:39:42 i have to set the IP manually with the DNS Sep 30 16:39:51 yes with DNS Sep 30 16:41:06 and you have that trouble with more than one AP? Sep 30 16:41:23 yes more than one Sep 30 16:41:34 (i'd better say "and you have that trouble with APs configured by different people?") Sep 30 16:41:40 many don't connect , i've tried to access the airport free Wifi it wont work Sep 30 16:41:50 straaange Sep 30 16:42:00 not strange i've seen people complain about this Sep 30 16:42:08 i didn't notice any bug's being posted about this Sep 30 16:43:56 i don't know if this depends on the type of Router , but some routers connect easy , like the ones in my dads office and university Sep 30 16:44:04 ahha Sep 30 16:44:09 Some like Lynksis and SMC connect Sep 30 16:44:18 try disabling wifi powersavings Sep 30 16:44:27 did that also Sep 30 16:44:35 doesn't help? Sep 30 16:44:41 no dosen't Sep 30 16:45:11 talk.maemo.org is down i guess Sep 30 16:46:59 also the routers that i connect on has no Mac address filtering or IP Whitelisting or black listing Sep 30 16:47:40 shows this error if i try to connect automatically without setting the IP and stuff manually : connection failed cannot retrive IP address from server Sep 30 16:48:18 even if DHCP is enabled Sep 30 16:48:29 are you sure that AP doesn't have settings that might prevent it from sending dhcp info? Sep 30 16:48:57 i'm pretty much sure yes , cause as i said my N95 connects to them Sep 30 16:50:49 and reboot also doesn't help? :) Sep 30 16:51:29 lol i've tried to reboot a lot of times .. i tried doing that first , even tried to reboot the house router Sep 30 16:51:48 no more ideas, sorry Sep 30 16:52:48 xDaReaperx: well, you can try doing some low-level stuff like analyzing traffic between ap and n900 but that isn't an easy task Sep 30 16:53:13 Hmmm , how would that help ... Sep 30 16:54:41 hi all Sep 30 16:54:48 either n900 doesn't ask for dhcp info or it does it in a wrong way or your ap doesn't respond or responds bad stuff or n900 receives response but doesn't handle it properly Sep 30 16:56:03 Hmmm ... Okay you could guide me on how to analyzie the traffic ... , although i doubt it could be a problem with just a router .. but i had doubts regarding the types of routers Sep 30 16:57:14 * mgedmin wonders if lcuk knows about http://liquibase.org/ Sep 30 16:57:26 xDaReaperx: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60756 similar issue Sep 30 16:57:54 oooh Sep 30 16:58:09 xDaReaperx: try changing tkip to aes encryption Sep 30 16:58:43 how do i do that Sep 30 16:58:56 okay the type of encryption Sep 30 16:59:01 xDaReaperx: in router web interface wifi settings Sep 30 16:59:22 mgedmin, nope! Sep 30 16:59:34 xDaReaperx: you have wpa, yep? Sep 30 16:59:37 yes i did it now let me see if it will connect automatically Sep 30 16:59:48 yes Wi-Fi protected access 2 Sep 30 17:02:27 nop still no luck Sep 30 17:02:49 same error " Internet connection failed. Unable to retrieve IP address from server Sep 30 17:03:01 weird Sep 30 17:04:12 should i try changing authentication method ? Sep 30 17:04:19 i'm using PSK Sep 30 17:05:37 that should be ok Sep 30 17:06:58 should i make a forum post on talk.maemo.org regarding the issue ? Sep 30 17:07:29 xDaReaperx, what happens if you remove the setting profile for your ap Sep 30 17:07:38 and then reconnect directly as a new connection Sep 30 17:07:43 Evenin' maemites Sep 30 17:07:46 afaik it should select the correct auth method Sep 30 17:08:47 you mean from my router ? Sep 30 17:08:55 Hi Sep 30 17:09:01 xDaReaperx, I mean on your device Sep 30 17:09:14 so it resets to thinking its totally new and never seen the ap before Sep 30 17:09:28 yeah i had the issue before , due to while i creater the ap profile Sep 30 17:09:30 o Sep 30 17:09:40 i'll try again by deleting it Sep 30 17:09:51 worth a try :) Sep 30 17:12:26 same problem , the wifi icon flashs for long time & gives error : Internet connection failed. Unable to retrieve IP address from server Sep 30 17:12:47 deleted all saved ap's (had only 2 saved) Sep 30 17:17:09 so i ran out of luck .. ? or is this some kind of bug ... Sep 30 17:19:54 xDaReaperx, hrm Sep 30 17:21:52 WHAT? nokia n8 has usb-on-the-go out of the box Sep 30 17:22:00 why does the n900 still does not have that :( Sep 30 17:22:36 meh Sep 30 17:23:41 Gh0sty, n810 had USB on the go Sep 30 17:24:06 i've seen some reference for the n900 too Sep 30 17:24:10 the n900 had software problems they couldn't fix in time to get USB compliance certification or something like that Sep 30 17:24:13 but it goes to obscure russian sites :( Sep 30 17:24:26 cu chaps Sep 30 17:31:09 To get a USB-OTG sticker for your product's box, you need to comply with all the specs for USB-OTG. Nokia wasn't able to implement all the drivers just in time to get N900 to market in 2009. So the only way to sell N900 and still not get on the black list of USB cert authorities was to change the hw to comply with much simpler USB gadget specs like every 'normal' HDD or simple phone or memstick. These changes imply it's impossible to get Sep 30 17:31:10 OTG ever, on N900 Sep 30 17:31:24 ;_; Sep 30 17:31:54 they could've sold the hardware without the drivers, and get a new certification later Sep 30 17:31:57 Guys i've made a post on the forum regarding my WiFi problems : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=830235#post830235 Sep 30 17:32:16 kerio: nope Sep 30 17:33:33 the N900 then wouldn't be any sort of USB device, which in turn will cause Microsoft not to certify any windows driver for N900, plus a lot of other legalese foo Sep 30 17:35:03 possibly Nokia getting fired from USB cert association, or dunno what. Not allowed to sell devices in Europe and China (mandatory USB charging) etc pp Sep 30 17:35:52 *technically* it'd be possible, yes Sep 30 17:41:27 btw all this has its root cause in friggin USB charging. It's hellborne Sep 30 17:41:46 yep Sep 30 17:42:04 Who the hell even decided to standardize on it? What dumbo? Sep 30 17:42:30 tell me and I'll visit this brain crook at night Sep 30 17:43:28 with a baseball bat Sep 30 17:44:09 fragile connector, insufficient current, difficulties implementing usb host, more complicated charger circuitry, more complicated receptaclecircuitry Sep 30 17:44:09 seems first to invent that BS were Chinese Sep 30 17:44:22 Motorolawas the first :) Sep 30 17:44:25 RAZR Sep 30 17:45:04 oh yes. Moto with al the abomination and violent rapes they did to USB Sep 30 17:46:07 headsets over USB, charging over USB, car stereo over USB, glitters&shit over USB. That's for shure been MOTOROLA Sep 30 17:47:16 curse them for that, until hell freezes over Sep 30 17:52:17 motorola needs to die a slow death Sep 30 17:53:37 or stop locking their bootloaders Sep 30 17:53:48 either way would be good, imo Sep 30 18:07:43 stop locking bootloader? They need to stop doing anything, to make them stop doing bad things Sep 30 18:09:40 honestly last good thing I noticed coming from Moto was Amiga's CPU Sep 30 18:11:09 back then Intel was the troll of hw scene with their braindead 80186 CPU Sep 30 18:15:12 G4! Sep 30 18:16:23 PPC can only really be faulted for not having x86's economies of scale. Sep 30 18:17:03 RISC > CISC after all Sep 30 18:18:47 Wonder if the next generation of consoles will have PPC again. Sep 30 18:19:11 again? Sep 30 18:19:57 both the wii and the x360 have PPC CPUs Sep 30 18:21:09 while, of course, THE PS3 HAS NO GAEMZ and thus it can't be qualified as a gaming console Sep 30 18:25:40 kerio: look up what 'again' means Sep 30 18:26:00 kerio, maybe that was right in 2006. Sep 30 18:26:22 no future for ppc Sep 30 18:26:24 kerio, I mean, sometime in 2012/2013 Sep 30 18:26:27 kerio: you can run Nibbles on PS3‼! Sep 30 18:26:32 intel or amd Sep 30 18:26:46 * luke-jr_ stabs RST38h in the face with a G5 Sep 30 18:26:48 something like tegra2 for portables Sep 30 18:28:30 luke-jr, careful, you'll melt his face off. Sep 30 18:28:52 Ew, Nvidia. Sep 30 18:29:11 RST38h, game consoles seem to be a pretty big future. Sep 30 18:33:01 GAN900: that's the goal Sep 30 18:34:52 The 970fx was, like, 140w TDP, no? Sep 30 18:35:21 I think I lost hearing in my left ear from mine. *g* Sep 30 18:36:42 help me port man(1) Sep 30 18:37:08 no Sep 30 18:37:25 luke-jr_: what? Sep 30 18:37:44 * luke-jr_ helps those who help themselves. Sep 30 18:37:46 <.< Sep 30 18:38:11 luke-jr_: im serious Sep 30 18:38:49 juk_: install EasyDebian or Gentoo Sep 30 18:41:43 luke-jr_: Gentoo also in repo??? Sep 30 18:42:18 juk_: … Gentoo is an OS Sep 30 18:42:26 or meta-OS Sep 30 18:42:59 luke-jr_: yeah, i meant is it made available like easydebian? Sep 30 18:43:07 juk_: no Sep 30 18:43:21 juk_: you install it basically the same as you install Gentoo anywhere else Sep 30 18:43:54 luke-jr_: on sdcard right? Sep 30 18:44:03 shrug Sep 30 18:44:06 I installed it on eMMC Sep 30 18:44:12 with /var/tmp on SD Sep 30 18:44:56 luke-jr_: wow, do you got step by step manual? Sep 30 18:45:05 no Sep 30 18:45:24 the Maemo wiki has a page on reparitioning eMMC Sep 30 18:45:32 Gentoo handbook has info on installs Sep 30 18:45:40 is there ARM stage3? Sep 30 18:45:45 the Gentoo-on-N8x0 page might have relevant tips otherwise Sep 30 18:45:46 luke-jr_: you build it? Sep 30 18:45:49 jacekowski: of course, mulitple Sep 30 18:45:55 hmmm Sep 30 18:46:03 how long does it take to compile? Sep 30 18:46:22 jacekowski: shrug Sep 30 18:46:39 luke-jr_: did you build it or image? Sep 30 18:46:44 ah, it's still compiling? Sep 30 18:46:56 juk_: native Sep 30 18:47:01 jacekowski: no, I just didn't time it Sep 30 18:47:09 luke-jr_: wow Sep 30 18:47:11 jacekowski: probably less time than my first Gentoo install took Sep 30 18:47:32 600 MHz ARM should outperform 800 MHz PIII I think Sep 30 18:48:00 i installed gentoo on arm long time ago Sep 30 18:48:10 and i was going from stage0 Sep 30 18:48:14 luke-jr, http://enivax.net/jk/n900/whatswap.png Sep 30 18:48:27 it took ages to build Sep 30 18:48:38 luke-jr_: so you have, gnome or openbox? Sep 30 18:48:46 juk_: KDE Sep 30 18:48:54 luke-jr_: wow, amazing Sep 30 18:48:55 ShadowJK: fresh boot? Sep 30 18:49:00 ShadowJK: quite low mem usage Sep 30 18:49:02 jacekowski: there is no stage0, never has been Sep 30 18:49:16 jacekowski, luke claimed it's impossible Sep 30 18:49:19 juk_: less amazing than your GNOME suggestion Sep 30 18:49:27 juk_: GNOME is far more bloated than KDE, and far less usable Sep 30 18:49:35 luke-jr_: stage0 mean bootstraping it from scratches using crosscompiler Sep 30 18:50:09 -.- Sep 30 18:50:23 as slonopotamus here just learned recently :D Sep 30 18:50:47 anyone using python for development Sep 30 18:50:53 jacekowski, that's what we did. Sep 30 18:51:06 jacekowski: we did? Sep 30 18:51:25 pretty sure I used Gentoo's official stage3 Sep 30 18:51:26 basically i want to develop on a mobile device with python and maemo seems to have the best support Sep 30 18:51:28 err, slonopotamus: Sep 30 18:51:37 apexi200sx: boo Python! Sep 30 18:51:46 lol y Sep 30 18:52:03 it annoy me Sep 30 18:52:10 apexi200sx, you can go to #pymaemo, and if you like Qt you can go to #pyside too :) Sep 30 18:52:11 luke-jr_, no, you didn't. you used stage3 i built (there was no armv6 stage at that time) Sep 30 18:52:30 slonopotamus: I only just got my N900 a few months ago Sep 30 18:52:37 hmm Sep 30 18:53:00 n900, yep, you're right then Sep 30 18:53:02 i am not sure whether to get a n900 or wait, do you know of any maemo devices coming out Sep 30 18:53:14 apexi200sx: Maemo is dead. there will never be another Maemo device. Sep 30 18:53:25 luke-jr-: why does it annoy you, what do dev in then Sep 30 18:53:33 apexi200sx: as whether you should get N900 or not, depends on what you want Sep 30 18:53:38 apexi200sx: C Sep 30 18:53:42 or Perl Sep 30 18:53:57 luke-jr-: i take it you haven;t used python then Sep 30 18:54:23 apexi200sx, python is slow and bloated. Sep 30 18:55:15 are we talking too ? slow for use on a maemo device Sep 30 18:55:31 apexi200sx: I have. Python makes my head hurt. Sep 30 18:55:41 I regret that I started one long-term project in it. Sep 30 18:55:59 on maemo device, memory is a much tighter constraint. Sep 30 18:56:27 hey thanks to python im using Gmapcatcher Sep 30 18:56:32 luke-jr_: Strange how peoples minds differ then, in my opinion Python is one of the cleanest and elegant languages Sep 30 18:57:13 apexi200sx, you messed up, it's haskell is clean and elegant. Sep 30 18:57:19 lol Sep 30 18:57:20 s/it's// Sep 30 18:57:21 slonopotamus meant: apexi200sx, you messed up, haskell is clean and elegant. Sep 30 18:57:29 python is just another tool available for use, in relation to other languages its not as optimal but that doesn't matter to everyone Sep 30 18:57:31 pretty-looking != useful Sep 30 18:57:46 luke-jr_, i didn't say useful :) Sep 30 18:58:06 apex: how many other prog languages do you know and what has been byour first language? Sep 30 18:58:38 my first language was perl :) that totally screwed up my taste Sep 30 18:58:46 * luke-jr_ bets anyone who likes Python doesn't know many (if any) other languages Sep 30 18:59:01 i like python for some uses Sep 30 18:59:08 the same ones I would use .vbs for actually Sep 30 18:59:10 Well in my day job i unfortunately have to deal with C++ and VB6 Sep 30 18:59:11 lcuk, indentation!!! Sep 30 18:59:23 slonopotamus, doesnt matter Sep 30 18:59:26 meh Sep 30 18:59:33 compared to C++ and VB6, Python has a good shot Sep 30 18:59:34 :p Sep 30 18:59:44 apexi200sx, :) i got shouted at by many for saying I was a vb6 developer ;) Sep 30 18:59:45 especially if that's MSVC++ and not real C++ Sep 30 19:00:04 also, anyone still using VB6 today should be shot Sep 30 19:00:06 <.< Sep 30 19:00:07 c++ and vb6 are both compiled languages tho Sep 30 19:00:13 python is closest to vbs :P Sep 30 19:00:28 luke-jr_, github describes liqbase as a visual basic project Sep 30 19:00:36 :D Sep 30 19:00:48 http://github.com/lcuk Sep 30 19:01:01 python is nothing like vbs Sep 30 19:01:03 liqbase-playground rather - on the repository list Sep 30 19:01:08 apexi200sx, sure it is Sep 30 19:01:08 lcuk: I only exclude you from the firing squad cuz liqbase is coolish Sep 30 19:01:28 from #meego-arm: "Under connectivity related settings, there were GPS, WiFi, 3G, Bluetooth and airplane." o_O Sep 30 19:01:30 python and vbs are interpreted and can bring in elements of main os Sep 30 19:01:48 luke-jr_, the worst part is that liqbase is all c :P Sep 30 19:01:49 msvs is great :-P Sep 30 19:01:52 is it object oriented Sep 30 19:02:11 apexi200sx, IDK Sep 30 19:02:18 it doesnt matter Sep 30 19:02:23 its a scripting skin Sep 30 19:02:29 apexi200sx: what kind of object oriented? Sep 30 19:03:17 class-based (C++, Python, Java), prototype-based (MOO), or hybrid (ECMAScript)? Sep 30 19:05:45 Govt To Bomb Guam With Frozen Mice To Kill Snakes Sep 30 19:06:26 what do i need to ioctl/sysfs in order to enable wifi psm? Sep 30 19:06:50 oh great, 3 minutes at work and I hear n900 skype disconnect Sep 30 19:07:06 * ShadowJK ponders other theories why sim issue only happens at work Sep 30 19:07:12 hmm Sep 30 19:07:28 DocScrutinizer51, ^ Sep 30 19:07:52 ShadowJK, at home if i connect via 3g Sep 30 19:08:09 I will connect/reconnect routinely every 30 mins or so Sep 30 19:08:17 ShadowJK: SIM issue? are you sure? Sep 30 19:08:35 skype discon looks to me like simple connectivity loss Sep 30 19:08:52 slonopotamus: dunno Sep 30 19:09:54 does anyone managed to get networking over usb under win 7? Sep 30 19:10:07 ShadowJK: at work your 3G BTS might suck and N900 tries to roam to 2G which maybe isn't supported by Ur carrier Sep 30 19:10:35 dRbiG, didn't ms support help you? Sep 30 19:11:40 slonopotamus: hehe ;) Sep 30 19:12:23 dRbiG, wut? i thought if you legally bought windoze, you get support from ms. Sep 30 19:13:03 (and maemo-side usb networking is fully documented) Sep 30 19:14:30 slonopotamus: ms support dosen't have anything in connection to my question Sep 30 19:15:12 * slonopotamus once called HP support because couldn't boot linux on dc7600. they said 'oh no, it doesn't support linux, use windows'. and after some googling i found user-contributed solition on hp forum :D Sep 30 19:15:40 slonopotamus: that's why i ask here Sep 30 19:15:51 slonopotamus: and i too have hp hardware Sep 30 19:16:25 btw. i ask if, not how :P Sep 30 19:18:28 dRbiG: that's why type in browser n900 usb networking hit enter and pick first link Sep 30 19:19:17 moin Sep 30 19:20:14 oin Sep 30 19:22:16 moin pupnik Sep 30 19:23:32 * nox- finally got the maemo xterm to behave... Sep 30 19:23:49 xterm-n900,\n\trmkx@, smkx@, kcub1=\E[D, kcud1=\E[B, kcuf1=\E[C, kcuu1=\E[A, use=xterm, Sep 30 19:24:48 get that thru tic(1), set TERM to it, and finally less vim & friends behave... :) Sep 30 19:25:07 nox-: mutt will work too ? Sep 30 19:25:27 (some more tweaking needed when ssh'ing to a bsd box but i guess few use one here... :) Sep 30 19:25:41 nox-, what does that thing do? Sep 30 19:25:44 marmoute, ssh'd to another box mutt works too Sep 30 19:27:15 yeah Sep 30 19:27:29 get that thru tic(1) ? Sep 30 19:27:45 slonopotamus, tic is the terminfo `compiler' Sep 30 19:28:05 nox-, i mean, that string Sep 30 19:28:19 part of ncurses-base on debian, not sure if maemo has it too Sep 30 19:28:51 slonopotamus, redefines those terminfo fields that n900 interprets wrong Sep 30 19:29:15 sounds cool Sep 30 19:29:19 resp disables (trmkx@ smkx@) Sep 30 19:29:20 :D Sep 30 19:29:50 export TERMCAP='xterm-n900|N900 xterm:ks@:ke@:kl=\E[D:kd=\E[B:kr=\E[C:ku=\E[A:tc=xterm:' Sep 30 19:29:53 does it fix ESCOM? Sep 30 19:29:54 that what i do on bsd Sep 30 19:29:57 yep Sep 30 19:30:35 and on bsd i need a ~/.screenrc with this too: termcapinfo xterm ks@:ke@:kl=\E[D:kd=\E[B:kr=\E[C:ku=\E[A Sep 30 19:30:46 cause screen usets TERMCAP before it starts... Sep 30 19:31:20 ... Sep 30 19:32:12 (it passes its own TERMCAP to child processes, guess thats why) Sep 30 19:32:35 marmoute, that's how magic happens Sep 30 19:33:27 marmoute, bsd only needs `special treatment' bc it doesnt seem to handle ~/.terminfo Sep 30 19:34:27 (ofc i _could_ have tic just install a global definition too but thats ugly and not everyone is root :) Sep 30 19:34:54 evening rkirti Sep 30 19:36:37 oh s/usets/unsets/ Sep 30 19:36:39 HOOORAAAYY!!! >:-( Sep 30 19:36:53 * Stskeeps passes DocScrutinizer a cake Sep 30 19:37:42 imported contacs from sim on old device, then swapped sim to new device, did same. Now today imported vcf contacts from old to new device - result: BUTLOADS of dups Sep 30 19:37:57 eww Sep 30 19:38:37 friggin BS Sep 30 19:41:06 now if that goddamn addressbook had a proper scripting interface, it'd be pretty simple to manage that mess. But alas I seem to have to go thru contacts GUI, contact by contact, compare, and then delete. CYA tomorrow... yuck Sep 30 19:41:37 isn't there an api? Sep 30 19:41:37 :P Sep 30 19:41:49 fsckng C api, yes Sep 30 19:43:03 I could as well export all contacts to vcf, process on desktop with unix standards tools, and then delete the whole augias on N900 and import proper on clean Sep 30 19:43:51 USELESS Nokia, COMPLETELY USELESS! Sep 30 19:44:50 congrats to differentiate Sep 30 19:47:41 half assed approach to import/export every record of that friggin berkley db to vcf. BTW a task that'd be done in SQL by a one-liner. Obviously nobody cared to think about *why* anybody would need that - and *how* it's gonna be used in real life Sep 30 19:48:11 yeah you have to wonder... Sep 30 19:48:14 :/ Sep 30 19:50:09 resembles an electrician who's told "place a light switch here next to the door please" and he's placing a switch there, but of course without any cable leading to it Sep 30 19:51:18 * DocScrutinizer wonders how much ignorance or hate must be there inside parts and between subgroups of maemo team Sep 30 19:51:30 are you done ranting? Sep 30 19:51:30 :P Sep 30 19:51:37 yes, definitely Sep 30 19:51:44 thanks for your patience Sep 30 19:51:53 normal people send bombs instead or burn company logos Sep 30 19:51:56 :P Sep 30 19:53:28 really? Sep 30 19:53:39 DocScrutinizer, there's an app. Sep 30 19:55:01 Stskeeps: I'm short of C4 Sep 30 19:55:12 recently :-P Sep 30 19:55:44 GAN900: name, URL ? Sep 30 19:55:53 It's in Extras. Sep 30 19:56:18 Don't recall the name, lost it after my proto died. Sep 30 19:56:37 ok, that somewhat narrows the search params X-P Sep 30 19:57:23 nevertheless big thanks for letting me know Sep 30 20:08:31 marco barisione - who else :-))) "Merge your duplicate contacts 0.1.3-0" Sep 30 20:09:31 heya :) Sep 30 20:10:01 hey anyone install maemo global on n900 ? Sep 30 20:10:34 i installed it shows 234mb on my rootfs, is that alright ? Sep 30 20:11:08 when i had maemo india there was 27gb partition also which i dont see now Sep 30 20:14:07 is there a tool like 'cat' that can update the contents when the file changes ? Sep 30 20:14:48 that shows a 'live' view of the file I meant Sep 30 20:17:40 barisione: you saved my day :-D Thanks a lot Sep 30 20:18:21 ? Sep 30 20:18:27 jack: tail -f Sep 30 20:18:37 and hello pupnik Sep 30 20:19:21 RST38h: it only works for new lines added, I need to update old ones too Sep 30 20:19:46 jacktheripper: or get *real* less, and simply press F Sep 30 20:20:22 DocScrutinizer51: can u answer my question o.O Sep 30 20:20:29 or - from cmdline - less +F myfiletocheck Sep 30 20:20:54 dunno, what IS your question? Sep 30 20:20:57 DocScrutinizer51: i installed maemo global on my device Sep 30 20:21:08 and without booting flashed with vanilla Sep 30 20:21:08 mhm Sep 30 20:21:15 mhm Sep 30 20:21:21 now my rootfs is 234 mb Sep 30 20:21:40 when there was indian version i saw one partition with 27gb Sep 30 20:22:07 but now its not ther Sep 30 20:22:38 sorry you compltely lost me Sep 30 20:22:51 k :( Sep 30 20:23:30 the 27GB s /home/user/MyDocs Sep 30 20:23:43 yes Sep 30 20:23:47 always been Sep 30 20:23:58 i dont see after installing maemo global Sep 30 20:24:03 :( why so Sep 30 20:25:07 to me it seems you failed on the 'don't boot' part. I strongly recommend to FIRST flash VANILLA, *then* flash COMBINED Sep 30 20:25:44 ok Sep 30 20:26:13 so first vanilla should be flashed? Sep 30 20:26:36 Anybody knows what the f*k happened with libsdl-ttf2.0? Older applications depend on libsdl-ttf2.0-0, and newer pygame lists it now as libsdl-ttf2.0... as a result, I have a total dependency mess now. Sep 30 20:27:08 (and yes, there are two different packages, one named libsdl-ttf2.0 and other libsdl-ttf2.0-0) Sep 30 20:27:18 (and of course they conflict) Sep 30 20:27:19 if you want to clean all your MyDocs then yes. Otherwise do NOT flash VANILLA at all (I guess its too late for you) Sep 30 20:29:01 h4xordood: it's suggested the other way round all over the place, nevertheless it's better to flash vanilla first, if you're goin to flash vanilla at all Sep 30 20:29:25 ah okay i wont to make n900 new Sep 30 20:29:39 so that means first vanilla and then combined Sep 30 20:29:54 hi, I'm trying to flash and boot a self-compiled zImage that looks for the rootfs on microsd with 0xFFFF, and it doesn't seem to boot when I disconnect the usb cable, I've framebuffer console for debugging purposes and it doesn't show up anything and is in an endless reboot with the nokia image, but with the usb cable connected it boots Sep 30 20:29:58 DocScrutinizer51: thnx :) Sep 30 20:30:20 yw Sep 30 20:30:54 just ommit the -R on all your flasher cmdlines Sep 30 20:31:11 DocScrutinizer51, ah? but I want the kernel permanant Sep 30 20:31:20 such as I'm outside and I power on the device Sep 30 20:31:23 without a computer Sep 30 20:31:27 but I'll try Sep 30 20:31:42 -D should be set to 0,1 or 2 ? Sep 30 20:31:45 GNUtoo|laptop: eh? Sep 30 20:32:05 ./0xFFFF -p kernel%/home/gnutoo/embedded/oe/oetmps/nokia900/work/nokia900-oe-linux-gnueabi/linux-2.6.28-r55/linux-2.6.28/arch/arm/boot/zImage -R -D 1 Sep 30 20:32:07 I used that Sep 30 20:32:26 and the help says: Sep 30 20:32:27 -D [0|1|2] sets the root device to flash (0), mmc (1) or usb (2) Sep 30 20:32:41 which I didn't understood Sep 30 20:32:46 maybe I'm wrong at -R for reboot, but I once ahain don't get a single word Sep 30 20:32:58 ok Sep 30 20:33:13 you mean? Sep 30 20:33:19 I'm not talking bout 0xFFFF Sep 30 20:33:19 I don't get a single world? Sep 30 20:33:21 which device is this? Sep 30 20:33:22 or you don't Sep 30 20:33:23 ? Sep 30 20:33:24 ok Sep 30 20:33:28 n900 Sep 30 20:33:31 0xFFFF isn't for the n900, some functions work though Sep 30 20:33:43 ah? Sep 30 20:34:40 GNUtoo|laptop: btw that's #maemo Sep 30 20:35:00 where should I ask? I use maemo's kernel Sep 30 20:35:08 2.6.28 with some patches Sep 30 20:35:19 we're talking bout a simple reflash of stock PR1.2 Sep 30 20:35:46 ah you weren't talking to me Sep 30 20:35:48 sorry then Sep 30 20:35:56 ask here, but make clear what's it all about Sep 30 20:36:11 use flasher-3.5 Sep 30 20:36:39 that's why I put a very long description Sep 30 20:37:25 GNUtoo|laptop: interferred with h4xordood answer to flashing problem :-D Sep 30 20:37:42 ah ouch sorry Sep 30 20:38:00 if he wants back his default kernel I know how Sep 30 20:38:28 apt-get --reinstall install kernel kernel-modules kernel-flasher Sep 30 20:38:48 that's if he can boot Sep 30 20:38:54 I know how if it doesn't boot anymore Sep 30 20:39:03 stock PR1.2 zImage for flasher-3.5 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/zImage.bin Sep 30 20:40:04 flasher-3.5 -k zImage -f -R, everyone knows how to do it Sep 30 20:40:20 ~flashing Sep 30 20:40:20 flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 30 20:40:22 ah ok Sep 30 20:40:25 I used that: Sep 30 20:40:33 http://www.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/N900Install#Uninstallation Sep 30 20:41:13 MohammadAG: minus "-R" Sep 30 20:41:25 "-R" is deprecated :-P Sep 30 20:41:46 it isn't, sed can deprecate it well :P Sep 30 20:41:49 if I'm right about -R == reboot Sep 30 20:41:52 i used this command ./flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f Sep 30 20:42:03 now wihtout booting Sep 30 20:42:29 i have to use this > ./flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f ? Sep 30 20:42:37 yes Sep 30 20:43:03 and you'll probably want to remove battery, insert it again, and hold 'u' when you plug to USB Sep 30 20:44:02 as usually it won't do a second flashing without powercycling the device, though you can try to just fire that second command and see if it succeeds Sep 30 20:44:05 is -R deprecated now? oh. Sep 30 20:44:24 on the N8x0 it would really NOT reboot =), thus staying forever in NOLO... Sep 30 20:44:27 Any HowTOs how to get more software on the N900? (The ovistore is a joke, ...) Sep 30 20:44:41 Extras? Sep 30 20:44:46 LOL Sep 30 20:44:50 javispedro, even when replacnig the battery Sep 30 20:44:50 ~extras Sep 30 20:44:51 extra, extra, read all about it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Sep 30 20:44:54 ? Sep 30 20:44:54 replacing Sep 30 20:45:09 MohammadAG: ofc not, actually you could even send more flasher commands to it Sep 30 20:45:30 grr, why did you N810 guys have all the fun Sep 30 20:48:35 * DocScrutinizer whistles the funeral march, silently Sep 30 20:48:59 RIP tmo :-P Sep 30 20:49:13 * MohammadAG passes the beer Sep 30 20:49:18 bring out the champagne Sep 30 20:50:07 heh and i was just wondering whether i should post the xterm stuff somewhere... Sep 30 20:50:10 MohammadAG: why you say that ( the fun in n810 ) ? Sep 30 20:50:10 cheers on a better world to come :-D Sep 30 20:51:18 or the #maemo apocalypse Sep 30 20:51:22 we need a backup channel Sep 30 20:51:38 eeeeek DUCK AND COVER Sep 30 20:52:03 * DocScrutinizer stares at user counter Sep 30 20:52:22 what, no #overflow? Sep 30 20:52:47 sure, #maemo has join-throttling :-D thanks for reminder Sep 30 20:53:52 .oO(that reminds me of the wikipedia channels whenever that is down...) Sep 30 20:54:02 :) Sep 30 20:54:48 hrhrhrrr It's dead, Jim Sep 30 20:55:14 * DocScrutinizer watching tmo lemmings jumping off the cliff in panic Sep 30 20:56:55 for those who don't get what all this is about: remove that talk.maemo.org 127.0.0.1 line from your etc/hosts :-P Sep 30 20:57:46 link DocScrutinizer Sep 30 20:57:55 LOL Sep 30 20:58:07 touche' Sep 30 20:59:30 mailinglists still up? or should i just put it on a private page? Sep 30 20:59:58 tmo is hosted on entirely different server Sep 30 21:00:42 http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/talk.maemo.org Sep 30 21:00:46 ok but are the lists going the same death soon too? or was DocScrutinizer just joking? :) Sep 30 21:02:03 I'm not joking Sep 30 21:02:09 ok Sep 30 21:02:21 tmo is down, see URL above Sep 30 21:02:35 ok but will it be up again? Sep 30 21:02:43 whoknows Sep 30 21:02:47 mm Sep 30 21:03:16 *.maemo.org downtimes aren't really any new or exciting though Sep 30 21:03:28 heh ok Sep 30 21:03:56 `it's dead, jim' just sounded so... eternal :) Sep 30 21:04:03 Any recommendations for an ebook (epub) reader? Sep 30 21:04:03 hehehe Sep 30 21:04:34 yacc, i know of fbreader and dorian Sep 30 21:05:03 oooh pandaboard.org Sep 30 21:05:12 fbreader one of the 10 most frequently used nouns in this chan Sep 30 21:05:14 * javispedro wants Sep 30 21:05:44 (just kidding, but anyway) Sep 30 21:06:10 Wonder if the final MSRP will be similar to that of the beagleboard Sep 30 21:06:34 Wonder if running ntpd on a mobile is a good idea, ... Sep 30 21:06:50 yeah i had to `fall back' to a python httpd hack + browser too, ebook conversion just didnt cut it Sep 30 21:07:10 (for some html trees i have at least) Sep 30 21:07:24 ask RST38h about where to find the real statistics as it seems it's a fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail not to mention it here and have a laugh about it in #meego :-) Sep 30 21:07:52 nox-, calibre seems quite capable when it comes to converting. Sep 30 21:07:59 why ntpd when there is gps? or cant that be used for syncing the clock? Sep 30 21:08:04 DocScrutinizer: what? fbreader? Sep 30 21:08:12 yacc: openntpd would be silly Sep 30 21:08:17 chan statistics Sep 30 21:08:20 and use lots of power on 3g Sep 30 21:08:39 yacc, thats what i tried... :/ Sep 30 21:08:52 yacc: actually it's not such a brilliant idea Sep 30 21:08:55 nox-, and what was the problem? Sep 30 21:09:13 DocScrutinizer: ntpd? Yeah data usage is irrelevant, but battery, ... Sep 30 21:09:46 yacc: ntpd really isn't build for random connectivity loss Sep 30 21:10:16 yacc, three probs i remember were thumbnail images w links to larger ones, fbreader knowing no tables and it being kinda slow too... Sep 30 21:10:24 I just use the network supplied time, it's "free" Sep 30 21:10:47 yacc: I always suggest to have a line like "netdate && hwclock --systohc" somewhere in ifup and syblings Sep 30 21:11:50 is syncing the clock from gps too difficult? Sep 30 21:12:41 ntpd -q is also "usable", but really, on the n900 you even rdate is fine Sep 30 21:13:04 DocScrutinizer: Gimme at least a couple of days to get used to doing stuff like that on my new mobile, I've been used to Android the last 18 months or so, where the userland is very un-Linux-ish to say the least. Sep 30 21:13:24 ShadowJK, how to use the network provided time? Sep 30 21:13:59 there's an option for that in clock settings Sep 30 21:14:11 yacc: s/netdate/ntpd -q/ Sep 30 21:14:57 it reset to off for me occasionally Sep 30 21:15:08 nox-: GPS needs connectivity for a decent TTFF. So where's the advantage over ntpdate alike approach? Sep 30 21:15:32 yacc: network as in GPS carrier? Sep 30 21:15:45 ntpd > ntpdate Sep 30 21:16:04 [2010-09-30 23:13:23] yacc: s/netdate/ntpd -q/ Sep 30 21:16:06 DocScrutinizer, well for ppl that pay per kb, or when there is no notwork Sep 30 21:16:25 if you have wifi its ok ofc :) Sep 30 21:16:40 when there's no network, you'll have to wait 15min for first fix from GPS Sep 30 21:16:44 ntpd doesn't make much traffic, and if you're concerned you can change the packet interval Sep 30 21:17:05 nox-, the N900 is probably not the correct device for people that pay per KB. (Well philosophically I do pay per KB, but it's 4€ per GB ;) ) Sep 30 21:17:14 (default: start at 64 seconds, if time is stable, it'll go up to 1024 secs+) Sep 30 21:17:33 yacc: hey, all I get is 1.5 per 10MiB. Damn third world country (comms wise). Sep 30 21:17:59 nox-: don't listen :-D Just use ntpd -q && hwclock --systohc in ifup somewhere Sep 30 21:18:14 heh ok Sep 30 21:18:47 javispedro, well, what shall I say, telecommunication wise the America is not that advanced, ... Sep 30 21:18:54 tmo is back. hide the beer! Sep 30 21:19:05 satmd: the real question though is what it does when connectivity is lost Sep 30 21:19:27 it'll fall back to 64 secs iirc Sep 30 21:19:38 unless you use the iburst/burst options, that is Sep 30 21:19:57 also ntp is very susceptible to jitter which id suspect you get a lot on mobile notworks... Sep 30 21:20:06 i just got gps time in 20 seconds from cold start with freerunner in a bus. i repeated the experiment twice Sep 30 21:20:13 ntpd really isn't meant for devices with sporadic internet connectivity Sep 30 21:20:19 exactly Sep 30 21:20:46 lindi-: we're not in #om here Sep 30 21:21:06 so TTFF of FR is largely irrelevant Sep 30 21:21:34 i thought you were talking about gps in general sorry Sep 30 21:21:50 jitter is absolutely horrible Sep 30 21:21:58 10 secs or so :) Sep 30 21:22:14 :P Sep 30 21:22:23 useless for ntp Sep 30 21:22:26 DocScrutinizer: GPS doesn't need a fix for the time Sep 30 21:22:35 oooh... Sep 30 21:23:08 GPS time is available from the second of the first satellite identified Sep 30 21:23:10 luke-jr_: that's correct, but location lib seems doesn't offer any time from GPS until fix accquired Sep 30 21:23:22 DocScrutinizer: that's a shortcoming of liblocation then Sep 30 21:23:27 yes Sep 30 21:23:28 use my code :P Sep 30 21:23:29 sure Sep 30 21:23:40 you fixed it? :) Sep 30 21:23:46 maybe have liblocation up just to trigger N900 GPS startup Sep 30 21:23:56 nox-: no Sep 30 21:24:04 but NMEA issues have no relevance to extracting a time Sep 30 21:24:13 also take my rant about liblocation with a grain of salt - not verified Sep 30 21:24:27 DocScrutinizer: I agree with your observation Sep 30 21:24:42 it won't send reports until gps fix Sep 30 21:24:53 k :-D Sep 30 21:25:07 So what's the normal way to get media on the device? Connect via USB and select MassMediaStorage? Sep 30 21:25:12 <`0660> a time from one satellite is worthless. without gps fix you have no idea how long the signal has been flying around before it reached you :) Sep 30 21:25:18 "Orange is the anti-angst! It's the least depressing color there is! No one can stay upset in the face of orange!" Comment on N8 colors.. Sep 30 21:25:22 yacc: scp Sep 30 21:25:31 yacc, thats probably the fastest if you talk transfer speed Sep 30 21:25:35 `0660: never more than a few seconds I'm sure Sep 30 21:26:00 I get a time right away with location-test-ui, but dunno if thagt's system or gps time Sep 30 21:26:03 `0660 let's say that it's probably exact enough for most people, in the 0.1s range I'd guess. Sep 30 21:26:08 * nox- get >10 MB/s over umass and only 1.5 or so via wifi scp Sep 30 21:26:32 nox-: what's the rush? Sep 30 21:26:42 trackerd is going to kill you the faster you move data anyway Sep 30 21:26:44 :P Sep 30 21:26:51 haha yeah i guess... Sep 30 21:26:52 ShadowJK: I'm quite sure that's system time Sep 30 21:27:21 but at least umass was usueful getting the 10 G+ wikipedia dumps on there... Sep 30 21:27:34 ShadowJK: while doing my liblocation->garmin pvt bridge I found out that pre-gps fix reports (when you have cell enabled) did not have the "time is valid" bit set Sep 30 21:27:35 Wikipedia is crap Sep 30 21:27:37 ☺ Sep 30 21:27:49 nox-, luke-jr: any docs about the paths to be used? I've already installed openssh (c+s), ... Sep 30 21:28:01 javispedro, oh I chose GNSS Sep 30 21:28:12 yacc: it's just a computer. copy files like you normally would. Sep 30 21:28:16 scp file machineB: Sep 30 21:28:30 luke-jr_: nox-: nope, trackerd won't kick in until ass rage mode finished Sep 30 21:28:47 umount ~MyDocs, you know :-D Sep 30 21:28:47 yacc, ~/MyDocs/.music (iirc) Sep 30 21:29:14 DocScrutinizer: no umount needed for scp Sep 30 21:29:24 ~ being ~user? Sep 30 21:29:28 for scp yes Sep 30 21:29:35 yep Sep 30 21:29:38 yes Sep 30 21:30:22 it's a shell shortcut Sep 30 21:30:32 for $HOME Sep 30 21:31:03 which usually is /home/user/ on N900 Sep 30 21:31:30 if you're root you can use ~user/MyDocs Sep 30 21:31:45 DocScrutinizer just wanted to know which username to use, ..., id in the Terminal suggested the very individual "user" ;) Sep 30 21:31:54 which means "user's $HOME" Sep 30 21:32:20 * satmd thinks he remembers something about that being a feature not all busybox builds have enabled :p Sep 30 21:32:30 yep Sep 30 21:32:52 I guess I remember N900/maemo messybox has, though Sep 30 21:33:42 wtf tmo register only has VB RegSecure instead of images... Sep 30 21:34:19 Any way to see the current power consumation of the device? Sep 30 21:35:52 yup, confirmed. N900 messybox knows ~user Sep 30 21:37:06 ah it needs cookies... Sep 30 21:37:16 I wish Ovi would stop asking me to have it sign in automatically. Sep 30 21:40:02 How can I disable my n900 to do apt-get update automatically? Sep 30 21:40:24 umm Sep 30 21:40:31 did not know that could be enabled.. Sep 30 21:40:50 on my device, liblocation: with no gps fix, cellmo disabled, it will send an initial report with time valid bit unset Sep 30 21:41:15 when it gets a fix, it will report time Sep 30 21:41:40 when it _loses_ the fix, it sends a few reports with valid time bit set _but_ time field contains last fix time Sep 30 21:41:47 Appiah: well in a certain time interval a program called apt-worker is starting to run if I have internet connection... Sep 30 21:41:58 oh wait Sep 30 21:42:07 apt-get update , I read apt-get upgrade Sep 30 21:42:07 (much like NMEA's time of last fix field would do) Sep 30 21:42:12 nevermind me! Sep 30 21:42:22 :) Sep 30 21:42:38 I should go to sleep now... Sep 30 21:42:58 so: liblocation time field is unrealiable unless there's a fix. Sep 30 21:43:02 yeah, me too. Sleep -f ? Sep 30 21:43:05 demute: see wiki 'maemo customization' Sep 30 21:43:36 DocScrutinizer: thanks Sep 30 21:44:46 GAN900, disable the MicroB plugin Sep 30 21:45:00 :-D Sep 30 21:45:46 GAN900: you're visiting OVI via microB? I just can't believe it X-P Sep 30 21:47:48 DocScrutinizer: it appears that I have followed that guide before and changed my update interval to 14 400 000 seconds, and since that rebooted and stuff, no change Sep 30 21:48:04 hmm Sep 30 21:48:47 wrong number format? wrong syntax so cmd failed? invalid number (>maxint)? Sep 30 21:50:34 maybe start with 604800 - which happens to mean once per week? Sep 30 21:53:01 Just out of curiosity, can the N900 handle a partitioned SD (one partition ext2, one vfat)? Sep 30 21:53:06 demute: also check your system time. Of course a huge jump may trigger an update (like when your hwclock says you're at 1970-01-01, on boot, and later the correct date gets set) Sep 30 21:53:35 yacc: yes Sep 30 21:53:43 hm Sep 30 21:53:46 that happens? Sep 30 21:54:00 VFAT even still is automounted - at least when it's the first partition Sep 30 21:54:18 DocScrutinizer: on that page it says that it must be lower than 2^31, but of course, they could mean 2^15 ;) I can give it a try... Sep 30 21:54:50 2^31 would mean it is a signed int Sep 30 21:54:55 that would not make much sense Sep 30 21:54:59 unless -1 means disabled Sep 30 21:55:02 does it? Sep 30 21:55:40 it's gconf. Sep 30 21:55:55 * DocScrutinizer51 waves - boozetime Sep 30 21:55:59 DocScrutinizer: lol, okay, the N900 is a tiny ARM based Linux box. So I guess it can handle almost anything that is within it's hardware resources as long as I'm willing to type commandlines on tiny keyboard ;) Sep 30 21:56:15 * satmd LOVES that line :D Sep 30 21:56:34 yacc: not quite Sep 30 21:56:41 luke-jr? Sep 30 21:56:58 yacc: various hardwares require blobs and have confidential specs Sep 30 21:57:06 so you can't use those to their full potential Sep 30 21:57:24 true, but isn't that exactly "within hardware ressources"? Sep 30 21:57:27 no Sep 30 21:57:30 mhm Sep 30 21:57:41 luke-jr_, Let me guess, no host-mode WLAN, so the WLAN tethering is as usually ad-hoc mode only? Sep 30 21:57:54 … Sep 30 21:58:05 no breaking gsm towers! Sep 30 21:58:08 yacc: that's not one of the limittions Sep 30 21:58:12 javispedro: exactly :/ Sep 30 21:58:17 =) Sep 30 21:58:44 you also can't force 3G or 2G only to avoid an interruption in a VoIP call Sep 30 21:58:47 satmd, kind of, philosophically sometimes it's hard to draw the line where the hardware/software line is. Sep 30 21:58:56 thoguh the hardware is in theory capable of it Sep 30 21:58:57 this is weird, i can't ping the tablet even though it's connected to the network, and internet access works fine... Sep 30 21:59:11 luke-jr: so the N900 can play a WLAN hostap? Cool. Sep 30 21:59:13 delt: N900 by default doesn't reply to ICMP ECHO Sep 30 21:59:21 you can forse wcdma/hsdpa Sep 30 21:59:22 n810 here.... same? Sep 30 21:59:23 delt: It works if you start a ping on the tablet first. It's some powersaving I think Sep 30 21:59:32 yacc: the hardware can. the specs are available. you just need to write the driver for it Sep 30 21:59:32 but you cant force just wcdma :/ Sep 30 21:59:35 or just hsdpa Sep 30 21:59:38 delt: not sure Sep 30 22:00:00 ShadowJK: exactly Sep 30 22:00:02 yacc, mobilehotspot Sep 30 22:00:02 luke-jr_: huh? you mean pings on wan interface? it does reply icmp echo on wlan interface here? Sep 30 22:00:23 dunno Sep 30 22:00:32 just recall reading that in an if-up script Sep 30 22:00:47 might be wan interface, where it usually makes no sense either way Sep 30 22:00:52 they're heavily natted usually Sep 30 22:01:11 * ShadowJK has un-natted :D Sep 30 22:01:18 ok, after running sudo ping from the tablet, now it responds to ping =) Sep 30 22:01:20 gnats!!!!!!! Sep 30 22:01:34 my n900 starts getting hot when someone tries bruteforce ssh Sep 30 22:01:45 lol Sep 30 22:01:45 dsg: does this last until reboot, reconnect, specific delay, ...? Sep 30 22:01:47 delt: so, you just saw Wifi Power Saving in action Sep 30 22:01:58 delt: Until the powersaving kicks in again Sep 30 22:02:03 javispedro: it would seem so =) Sep 30 22:02:05 someone needs to specify a standard for firewall control Sep 30 22:02:06 ah got it Sep 30 22:02:15 delt: your router is broken Sep 30 22:02:20 er.. Sep 30 22:02:22 s/router/ap/ Sep 30 22:02:29 so when you set port 22 to DROP, it uploads that rule to the first router capable… Sep 30 22:02:45 javispedro: nah, PSM is broken ☺ Sep 30 22:03:09 there's at least a set (small or not, that I don't know) of APs where it works Sep 30 22:03:35 javispedro: Hm, are you sure those APs don't just disallow devices to enter powersaving somehow? Sep 30 22:04:11 ShadowJK: can't you configure it to start instantly dropping all connections after the first N from the same IP? Sep 30 22:04:14 dsg: possibly both the router and the n900 implementation are buggy. shit happens sometime... Sep 30 22:04:18 *sometimes Sep 30 22:04:27 i know the wifi would still use power, but at least it wouldn't load the cpu much Sep 30 22:04:40 * ShadowJK has two wifi routers where it works Sep 30 22:04:41 and it might even put off an especially clever bot Sep 30 22:04:53 limksys wrt54gl, and Level1 Wap-006 Sep 30 22:04:54 on a related note, in "connectivity settings" i set the "wlan transmission power" to 10mW instead of 100 (default) .... seems to work fine, any pros/cons/caveats/etc....? Sep 30 22:05:05 * javispedro has one D-Link router where PSM works flawlessly, d-link 2640 Sep 30 22:05:25 grr Sep 30 22:05:27 can 802.11 not automatically decrease power like GSM does? Sep 30 22:05:42 QFileSystemWatcher doesn't detect changes done in /proc Sep 30 22:06:04 javispedro: ironic coincidence, i just stepped on it and it broke in half, right before you said that :3 Sep 30 22:06:11 BCMM, radiated power is a very small part of total consumption Sep 30 22:06:21 even receive-only uses quite alot :) Sep 30 22:06:28 delt: the what? :P Sep 30 22:07:00 javispedro: my rooter, or however you spell it =) Sep 30 22:07:03 ShadowJK: hmm, so why does delt have an option to decrease transmission power? different national regulations? Sep 30 22:07:25 yes, exactly Sep 30 22:07:31 salut cyberfille, ca va? Sep 30 22:07:33 PSM isn't about decreasing power AFAIK Sep 30 22:07:38 you can only use 10mW outdoors in france iirc Sep 30 22:07:45 luke-jr, correct Sep 30 22:07:47 isn't it about turning the radio off? Sep 30 22:07:50 yep Sep 30 22:08:04 which is inherently going to cause delays Sep 30 22:08:08 ShadowJK: or you get arrested? (: Sep 30 22:08:29 yeah, that sound easily enforceable Sep 30 22:08:29 also, yep. Sep 30 22:08:59 With a proper wifi ap, the delay is going to be approximately that of beacon interval Sep 30 22:09:04 or 50ms :) Sep 30 22:09:07 a proper AP will even allow you to configure it Sep 30 22:09:07 PSM.... phase shift modulation? Sep 30 22:09:37 power save mode Sep 30 22:09:49 oh heh Sep 30 22:09:55 commonly known as PM Sep 30 22:10:00 yeah, my cheap 20€ chinese ap let's me configure it :) Sep 30 22:10:01 * satmd says good night Sep 30 22:10:12 heh =) Sep 30 22:10:28 bonne nuit satmd Sep 30 22:11:15 ShadowJK: couldn't you save even more power by making it once a second? ;) Sep 30 22:11:26 sure Sep 30 22:11:37 I use one second Sep 30 22:11:47 actually half second iirc Sep 30 22:12:04 another weird thing, on the tablet i tar'd up everything on the / that wasn't other filesystems (du -sc told me around 240mb) and i untar it here, gives me 400mb of stuff Sep 30 22:12:04 makes ssh unusable =) Sep 30 22:12:20 ssh _to_ the n900, that is. Sep 30 22:12:23 I use 50ms because my symbian cellphones spend so little time scanning each channel that they never found aps if beacon interval was high Sep 30 22:12:41 delt: did you accidentally include /proc? Sep 30 22:13:02 rootfs is compressed Sep 30 22:13:35 how come ps -A shows so many duplicates? e.g. 2 x camera-ui, 2 x hildon-home, etc Sep 30 22:13:58 wait, du calcs real size =) Sep 30 22:14:10 each app has 2 threads running Sep 30 22:14:17 isnt there a good ol telnet server for maemo? Sep 30 22:14:32 delt: no, but you can easily port one. Sep 30 22:14:45 s/port/repackage mostly Sep 30 22:14:48 ShadowJK: nope, excluded everything that was mentioned in "mount" Sep 30 22:14:57 well, by the command "mount" Sep 30 22:15:21 real size = apparent size? Sep 30 22:15:28 or size on disk? Sep 30 22:15:37 unix doesn't know about the latter Sep 30 22:15:43 (theoretically... and afaik) Sep 30 22:15:44 oh, i installed bash from the extras repo, removed the sh -> busybox symlink and made a sh -> bash one ....anything wrong with doing that? Sep 30 22:16:00 delt: nothing weird about that Sep 30 22:16:17 luke-jr_: it's no longer insta-brick? Sep 30 22:16:18 thats the way it is on most unix systems anyway Sep 30 22:16:43 [17:11:16] another weird thing, on the tablet i tar'd up everything on the / that wasn't other filesystems (du -sc told me around 240mb) and i untar it here, gives me 400mb of stuff Sep 30 22:16:59 I would also have guessed reboot-loop replacing busybox sh with bash Sep 30 22:17:19 Received disconnect from 10.0.0.90: 2: Too many authentication failures for root <= what do I do to allow root logins again? Sep 30 22:17:44 javispedro: ? Sep 30 22:18:07 luke-jr_: past experiencies on stock maemo while doing that usually result in reboot loops Sep 30 22:18:14 doing what? Sep 30 22:18:24 /bin/sh -> bash Sep 30 22:18:43 I wasn't talking about that Sep 30 22:19:12 ah. Sep 30 22:19:15 I was talking about how it's pretty normal for du to show different size-on-disk between different filesystems Sep 30 22:19:40 tar'ed up from jffs, untar'ed on ext3 here Sep 30 22:19:45 how do I change the number of desktops? I only want one, everything is fullscreen anyway. Sep 30 22:19:46 exactly Sep 30 22:19:49 ah, so du reports compressed size Sep 30 22:20:07 du reports how much space on the disk it uses Sep 30 22:20:18 so for extN, minimum 1 block Sep 30 22:20:56 du "disk usage" normally in terms of blocks, so yeah it is usually more than the cumulative file sizes Sep 30 22:21:26 delt: while we're at it, backup your n900 or undo the sh -> bash symlink if you plan to keep on using maemo. Sep 30 22:21:52 n810 .... and why link it back to busybox? Sep 30 22:21:59 * luke-jr_ can't think of any reason one would want /bin/sh -> bash on N900 anyhow Sep 30 22:22:10 delt: because all Maemo's boot scripts assume it's busybox Sep 30 22:22:13 and don't work in BASH Sep 30 22:22:34 ohhhh... and busybox's "shell" mode is ash, right..... :/ Sep 30 22:22:55 zsh should be in the repo Sep 30 22:23:04 how do I suppress output from something? Sep 30 22:23:33 which is 99% backward-compatible, but a few weirdnesses might happen, and if they do they will in the WORST possible spot Sep 30 22:23:38 good point, thanks Sep 30 22:24:31 however i did reboot the tablet after, and nothing has exploded (yet) Sep 30 22:24:43 aah theres a ticket for the enter key bug... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009 Sep 30 22:24:44 Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications Sep 30 22:25:10 i guess the deb in there is for 1.1 tho? Sep 30 22:25:22 ok, changing users shells in /etc/passwd instead of the symlink thing... Sep 30 22:25:45 or didn't it mention some "bash-setup" thing in the app. manager? Sep 30 22:26:35 delt, doesn't work Sep 30 22:27:28 MohammadAG: the script thingy that comes with bash? Sep 30 22:28:22 i'd figure all it does is change the shell at the end of your account's line in /etc/passwd...? Sep 30 22:28:52 I wouldn't do that even... Sep 30 22:29:32 I'd type bash manually :-) Sep 30 22:29:41 uh why not?? Sep 30 22:30:00 chsh is there, unless they forgot to remove it from debian...? Sep 30 22:30:10 well, half of maemo runs as root. the other half runs as user. enuff said. Sep 30 22:30:41 but, you're free to try of course =) Sep 30 22:31:12 which makes using a shell i know better, a better idea, right? Sep 30 22:31:20 or am i missing something :? Sep 30 22:31:23 just have a backup close by :P Sep 30 22:31:23 and flasher-3.5 Sep 30 22:31:32 ^^ :) Sep 30 22:31:35 delt: Maemo isn't based on Debian really. Sep 30 22:31:40 it just uses its package manager Sep 30 22:31:48 or rather, it uses dpkg, the core package manager Sep 30 22:31:53 ur mom is based on debian Sep 30 22:31:54 I wouldn't touch anything in /usr really Sep 30 22:31:56 it doesn't use aptitude, Debian's real pkg mgr even Sep 30 22:32:04 I edited some libs in /usr/lib, now I can't use my vkb Sep 30 22:32:06 tripzero: YOUR FACE is based on debian Sep 30 22:32:17 how mature Sep 30 22:32:17 my face is based on ubuntu Sep 30 22:32:25 s/my/your/ Sep 30 22:32:26 tripzero meant: your face is based on ubuntu Sep 30 22:32:34 delt: basically, there's *no chance* anything was "forgot to remove from Debian" Sep 30 22:32:51 tripzero: you had that right the first time Sep 30 22:33:05 luke-jr, both are correct Sep 30 22:33:06 not even /usr/doc/README-debian.txt? Sep 30 22:33:07 jk Sep 30 22:33:19 luke-jr, did they just apt-build debian packages? Sep 30 22:33:27 against their own toolchain? Sep 30 22:33:30 uh that would have been debian-x.yz-release-notes.txt Sep 30 22:33:42 tripzero: more or less Sep 30 22:34:19 well... that's essentially what ubuntu does... and they claim they are based on debian Sep 30 22:34:25 no Sep 30 22:34:29 ubuntu tries to be in sync with debian Sep 30 22:34:32 I mean, it's *kindof* based on Debian, but not to the extent that it's remotely Debian-compatible Sep 30 22:34:32 maemo usually doesn't Sep 30 22:34:35 in any way Sep 30 22:34:40 delt, /usr/share/docs don't exist Sep 30 22:34:50 docpurge well.. purges them :P Sep 30 22:34:53 javispedro, they sync every 6 months, but they really just pull debian packages and rebuild them Sep 30 22:35:06 adding their own patches were applicaable Sep 30 22:35:07 tripzero: well, as I was saying, that's more than what maemo does =) Sep 30 22:35:14 :nod: Sep 30 22:35:41 ofc on the other side it is based on an old release of debian Sep 30 22:36:08 it forked from it. Sep 30 22:36:12 close to etch Sep 30 22:36:12 on the core of an old release Sep 30 22:36:18 only what they picked out for Maemo really Sep 30 22:36:22 MohammadAG: I'd say older. Sep 30 22:36:32 i bet ubuntu has all the infrastructure built out to fork debian every 6 months. That'd be handy in the open source world... Sep 30 22:41:00 well Sep 30 22:41:12 I'm forking DeeGo when MeeGo comes out :P Sep 30 22:41:21 glhf Sep 30 22:41:38 MohammadAG: YouGoFirst Sep 30 22:41:47 lame joke... Sep 30 22:42:12 lol Sep 30 22:42:48 jffs doesnt have builtin compression? Sep 30 22:42:57 is this n8x0 or n900? Sep 30 22:43:11 the N900 doesn't use jffs2 Sep 30 22:43:17 I know. Sep 30 22:43:20 n810 Sep 30 22:43:35 javispedro, I know you do :P Sep 30 22:43:40 that wasn't @ you Sep 30 22:44:02 ok, he knows that you know that he knows but he thought i didn't know. Sep 30 22:44:04 there Sep 30 22:44:37 I knew it! Sep 30 22:44:48 but I had a slight advantage there. I knew I was trying to remember whether delt told me a few lines before he had a n810. Sep 30 22:45:11 k, you win Sep 30 22:45:14 and instead of backscrolling, I just wasted more bandwidth and a bit of everybody's time. Like I'm doing now! Sep 30 22:45:18 * MohammadAG gives javispedro Sep 30 22:45:21 * javispedro goes do some real work Sep 30 22:45:25 fail Sep 30 22:45:29 * MohammadAG gives javispedro a trillion trolls Sep 30 22:45:34 * delt uses the /me command for absolutely no reason Sep 30 22:46:01 * MohammadAG uses the /mkick command to kick everyone in the channel Sep 30 22:46:23 javispedro: you know in the 12th century you could have been tortured to death for wasting people's internet bandwidth Sep 30 22:48:12 delt, well, having the special privilege to have been in the Top-3 bandwidth users at my ISP in the summer months, ... Sep 30 22:48:47 delt, I guess in the 12th century they would have me revived at least a dozen times so they could enjoy torturing me more often ;) Sep 30 22:48:48 s/tortured to death/decapitated, executed, and then slowly tortured to death/ Sep 30 22:49:29 delt, I mean I've got a 100mbit connection, and these guys get irritated if I just use about 10mbit on average, ... Sep 30 22:50:00 you and your whole village. which isn't good if you're living in a city like Tokyo or New York. Sep 30 22:53:04 a laptop screen is nicer than a n900 screen Sep 30 22:53:14 weird, now du -sc (all that stuff on / ) FROM THE TABLET is telling me 348 megs Sep 30 22:53:32 delt, well, I'm paying a premium to have the 100mbit connection, I could go with a 16mbit connection for way less, ... Sep 30 22:53:41 on a 256mb jffs partition. yeah. Sep 30 22:57:11 just /usr is 287 megs according to du -s and there are 22 megs left on that 254.?? meg partition. Sep 30 22:57:41 sim card issue, part IV.. tried a newer sim card. it worked last week in E75. No go at all in my n900 :/ Sep 30 22:57:42 what puzzles me is thath http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS doesn't contain a single word that starts with "compres" Sep 30 22:57:57 * ShadowJK sighs thinking of 2 week nokia repair turnaround, bestg case Sep 30 22:58:16 ShadowJK, broken kernel modules? Sep 30 22:58:30 ShadowJK: was it you that had to prise the sim contacts up with tweezers? Sep 30 22:59:04 yeah that helped a bit with this card Sep 30 22:59:20 dont tell nokia care I did that Sep 30 22:59:24 :) Sep 30 22:59:36 * jpinx-eeepc pm's Nokia ;) Sep 30 23:00:01 Yeah, good luck, they aren't exactly easy to communicate with :) Sep 30 23:00:09 ShadowJK: did you try cleaning the sim contacts with a contact cleaner? Sep 30 23:00:18 isopropanol? Sep 30 23:00:30 (running alcohol i guess?) Sep 30 23:00:43 no - that leaves residues Sep 30 23:01:01 there is proper cleaning solution for very small contacts Sep 30 23:01:02 Application packages missing: kernel-diablo-modules-extra <--- how would one go about finding and installing this package? Sep 30 23:01:20 delt: apt-cache search.... Sep 30 23:02:46 Anyone got an idea where I need to stuff my epubs for dorian? Sep 30 23:03:45 in a girl's fa...oh *E*pubs sorry!! Sep 30 23:03:47 jpinx-eeepc, funny that, I use isopropanol cleaning optical fibres before splicing specifically because it doesn't leave residue Sep 30 23:04:11 ok bad one =3 Sep 30 23:04:52 ShadowJK: I was told that it evaporates too quickly and leaves residues Sep 30 23:05:04 ShadowJK: but go with what you know ;) Sep 30 23:05:35 * ShadowJK wonders what contact cleaner would be called in .fi... Sep 30 23:06:06 jpinx-eeepc, never leaves residue here Sep 30 23:06:15 I used it when I fixed my PS3 Sep 30 23:06:29 oh, I put a piece of paper between battery and sim holder. Now it didn't disconnect on same test that disconnected 3/4 tries: riding pushbike from one end of hall to other Sep 30 23:09:14 oh, the nfs modules aren't included in maemo-diablo either, right? :( Sep 30 23:10:05 ShadowJK, my N900 always needs a paper under the sim Sep 30 23:13:36 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009#c27 Sep 30 23:13:37 Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications Sep 30 23:15:10 heh apt-get update tells me some PGP or GPG error "You might want to run apt-get update to correct these problems" Sep 30 23:16:12 GPG Sep 30 23:16:16 ignore it Sep 30 23:16:25 oh :) Sep 30 23:16:25 I was told ethanol comes mixed with denaturizing agents and leaves residues Sep 30 23:16:26 but isopropanol can be had clean Sep 30 23:17:13 blah blah couldnt be verified because public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY [gibberish} Sep 30 23:18:04 ShadowJK: Everclear :D Sep 30 23:18:18 Yeah, I always have loved that error Delt (about running apt-get update to fix it). They are having errors with the extras repository at the moment Sep 30 23:18:33 oh, saw E: earlier because the app. manager was still running.... closed it, now these are only W: (warnings) Sep 30 23:18:37 so it did suckseed Sep 30 23:19:45 ShadowJK, err, you mean isopropyl right? Sep 30 23:21:00 *sigh* E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned errcode (2) Sep 30 23:21:18 (trying to run apt-get install kernel-diablo-modules-extra portmap nfs-common) Sep 30 23:22:41 clochette: c'tait toi "cybergirl" ya env. une demi-heure de a? Sep 30 23:25:00 cleaning contacts is best done with rough unvarnished paper. Liquids likeethanol or propanol or methanol never remove oxids and may destroy plasic and glued joints Sep 30 23:25:28 * ShadowJK has access to tons of paper Sep 30 23:25:32 literally Sep 30 23:26:01 MohammadAG, probably, seeing as that's where wikipedia redirects me Sep 30 23:26:31 maybe I need two pieces of paper under battery :D Sep 30 23:26:41 the one piece did improbe things I think Sep 30 23:27:02 okie, now my /proc/filesystems should include "nfs" right? Sep 30 23:27:25 yay 1 point for me Sep 30 23:32:18 meh, disconnect Sep 30 23:32:32 so you probably know how to call that 300g/m^2 unvarnished carton Sep 30 23:32:35 I usually call it 'natural paper business card' Sep 30 23:34:03 Just realized, could it be that the limiting factor of putting data onto the N900 is not my WLAN connection, instead the builtin MMC is limiting it speed-wise? Sep 30 23:34:44 yacc, as i said i get > 10 MB/s via umass Sep 30 23:34:59 USB mass storage? Sep 30 23:35:02 That sounds nice. Sep 30 23:35:03 yeah Sep 30 23:35:05 hmmm. Sep 30 23:35:17 mtools Sep 30 23:35:22 eMMC over mass storage and USB is 11MB/s Sep 30 23:36:15 avrg for *writing* 13GB Sep 30 23:36:31 doc! Sep 30 23:36:45 raster! :-D Sep 30 23:36:57 yay for mmc Sep 30 23:37:11 * raster is on a mission to kill nand Sep 30 23:37:16 almost there Sep 30 23:37:27 cool :-> Sep 30 23:37:31 i seem to have everyone on side by now Sep 30 23:37:38 as i found a new use for the existing nand Sep 30 23:37:46 that massively increases system reliability Sep 30 23:37:56 ?? Sep 30 23:37:57 ShadowJK: I was going to suggest padding up the sim card - but I got d/c'd :( Sep 30 23:38:06 and gets rid of our every day mtd based fs's Sep 30 23:38:10 and all their crud Sep 30 23:38:17 and it actually makes peolpe happy Sep 30 23:38:25 as they no longer feel they have wasted their nand Sep 30 23:38:27 coooool Sep 30 23:38:38 * DocScrutinizer51 loves happiness Sep 30 23:38:39 and the bonus is that its making things much more unbrickable :) Sep 30 23:38:52 lets hope that the telcos/production agree Sep 30 23:38:53 :) Sep 30 23:39:22 i'm also on a mission to kill of UMS Sep 30 23:39:28 raster: how's life? Sep 30 23:39:34 no more bloody fat fs's being mounted and unmounted Sep 30 23:39:43 and exposed to host devices Sep 30 23:39:54 screw that ugly mess Sep 30 23:39:56 it has to go Sep 30 23:39:58 HAS to Sep 30 23:40:13 got most of the way to killing that off too Sep 30 23:40:16 life - busy Sep 30 23:40:20 dont get enough sleep Sep 30 23:40:24 hm i havent treid copying via usb notwork, maybe that also is faster than wifi... Sep 30 23:40:29 killed off another bug just now that i was totally baffled by Sep 30 23:40:30 tried Sep 30 23:40:31 now i grok it Sep 30 23:40:32 good :-D Sep 30 23:40:36 and i'm feeling good Sep 30 23:40:40 :) Sep 30 23:40:51 so i'm doing my little self-motivation battle cries :) Sep 30 23:40:57 die ums die! Sep 30 23:41:00 die nand die! Sep 30 23:41:01 :) Sep 30 23:41:47 monster agnets for fun (had my first MRT today) Sep 30 23:41:55 magnets* Sep 30 23:42:02 What do I do when the N900 complains that it cannot do mass storage because it's already in use? Sep 30 23:42:28 stop the process(es) that use it Sep 30 23:45:01 raster: also I carry my very own 0.3 mm^3 of atomic waste with m now, glolite tritium keyring - it's fun for knowing it'll shine on my grave eventually Sep 30 23:45:18 hahahahaha Sep 30 23:45:28 atomic-doc! Sep 30 23:45:41 :-D Sep 30 23:45:45 haha Sep 30 23:45:54 nostop procs using the fat fs when u want to unmount to export to usb host? Sep 30 23:46:27 fuser ftw Sep 30 23:46:31 lsof even Sep 30 23:46:37 thats just wrong Sep 30 23:46:40 u CAN do it Sep 30 23:46:43 but its wrong Sep 30 23:46:56 its highly unsociable to go killing procs off just because they have a file open on an fs Sep 30 23:47:09 scenario Sep 30 23:47:15 i have my phoe - playing music Sep 30 23:47:20 my headphones plugged in Sep 30 23:47:26 i arrive home or at work Sep 30 23:47:34 plug phone into pc to charge + whatever Sep 30 23:47:40 i dont take my headphones out Sep 30 23:47:42 i just keep listening Sep 30 23:47:54 i want to add soem more music files to my phone while doing this Sep 30 23:48:01 so i mount it and copy files on Sep 30 23:48:03 yeah then umass is not for you Sep 30 23:48:15 why should my music be killed off just because i want to do this? Sep 30 23:48:18 thats just bad Sep 30 23:48:26 raster: concept of emulating a block device on top of a FS driver has been discussed Sep 30 23:48:34 u can do it all without mass storage Sep 30 23:48:36 and fat Sep 30 23:48:46 u can keep concurrent access Sep 30 23:48:47 raster: yeah - I thought of that ages ago Sep 30 23:48:50 sftp ftw Sep 30 23:48:56 raster: emulation of a virtual vfat fs Sep 30 23:49:04 raster: generated on plug Sep 30 23:49:05 SpeedEvil: been done. look at qmeu Sep 30 23:49:05 :) Sep 30 23:49:14 heh i was just about to say... Sep 30 23:49:26 It's messy i you want to do that as you need to handle locking, or versioning Sep 30 23:49:28 goahead Sep 30 23:49:30 u can only do it read-only Sep 30 23:49:33 "saafely) Sep 30 23:49:41 but thats all u need Sep 30 23:49:48 u only need ums "emulation" for legacy stuff Sep 30 23:49:52 like plugging device into printer Sep 30 23:49:54 or car steror Sep 30 23:50:04 where it wants to access the audio files on the device to play them Sep 30 23:50:15 all u need is RO then anyway Sep 30 23:50:19 give it ro Sep 30 23:50:34 for RW access - you do it all via usbnet + samba Sep 30 23:50:34 done Sep 30 23:50:36 known concept Sep 30 23:50:38 concurrent access Sep 30 23:50:41 safe Sep 30 23:50:50 nobody implemented it Sep 30 23:51:10 and u dont have the primitive fat fs to worry about on the device side Sep 30 23:51:20 ie u can keep proper user id's, permissions, symlinks etc. etc. Sep 30 23:51:28 and in fact u can use any fs u like Sep 30 23:51:39 whatever works for your situation Sep 30 23:51:46 smb is the future Sep 30 23:52:00 raster: my aim is to be able to plug the usb into a windows box, use portaputty to ssh in to the box and do my work there. I am highly mobile but can use internet cafes for the big screen/keyboard Sep 30 23:52:09 the trick is in making windows work out of the box with it Sep 30 23:52:09 :) Sep 30 23:52:36 smb! Sep 30 23:52:36 ie the regular windows user can just plug and play like they do with ums Sep 30 23:52:45 samba Sep 30 23:52:49 raster: not secure! Sep 30 23:52:53 as windows wont set up the usbnet right out of the box Sep 30 23:52:54 :) Sep 30 23:53:06 jpinx-eeepc: not secure? Sep 30 23:53:10 raster: did you make a suggestion when I relogged? Sep 30 23:53:31 SpeedEvil: not to you specifically :) Sep 30 23:53:48 * SpeedEvil has quit (Quit: Leaving.) Sep 30 23:53:48 u only need ums "emulation" for legacy stuff Sep 30 23:53:48 like plugging device into printer Sep 30 23:53:48 or car steror Sep 30 23:53:48 * SpeedEvil (1000@mauve.plus.com) has joined #maemo Sep 30 23:53:49 he's slapping our heads with UMB - whatever that is Sep 30 23:53:54 thats all u missed Sep 30 23:54:19 raster: ssh encryption over usb to a windows box Sep 30 23:54:23 jpinx-eeepc: we're talking smb over usbnet (ie network usb device on your usb cable) Sep 30 23:54:29 its a USB CABLE Sep 30 23:54:38 raster: Ah - yeah - I've worked all this out ages ago Sep 30 23:54:39 alas he left qagain Sep 30 23:54:40 point to point Sep 30 23:54:42 raster: it's an INTERNET CASFE Sep 30 23:54:49 Ooops Sep 30 23:54:51 raster: It's all damn simple if you drop the requirement for vfat. Sep 30 23:54:56 u plugged your device in Sep 30 23:54:59 raster: Which is unfortunately there not only for windows. Sep 30 23:55:19 if the pc you are using is not trusted - u are SOL Sep 30 23:55:21 raster: It's also there for 'I plug my phone into a printer that supports UMS and want to print my photos' Sep 30 23:55:24 ssh wont help Sep 30 23:55:27 Or mp3 Sep 30 23:55:30 everythnig can be intercepted and logged Sep 30 23:55:36 raster: and ultimately it needs to work over bluetooth Sep 30 23:55:40 from passphrase entry thru to exchanging of keys Sep 30 23:55:58 wtf ums Sep 30 23:56:01 diffle-hymen. Sep 30 23:56:08 raster: I change my ssh pass every time I use it Sep 30 23:56:09 Or however it's spelled. Sep 30 23:56:20 SpeedEvil: see above. qemu. have vfat (read only) emulation available Sep 30 23:56:33 u can advretise BOTH a usbnet gadget AND a ums device Sep 30 23:56:39 *after* I have unplugged Sep 30 23:56:40 ums is the vfat emulation Sep 30 23:56:56 raster: That also implies versioning, and a much more aggressive indexer. Sep 30 23:57:11 WTF IS UMS? Sep 30 23:57:11 raster: It's especially fun if you want to support holes. Sep 30 23:57:20 USB Mass Storage Sep 30 23:57:26 jpinx-eeepc: still doesnt matter - when connected it can be intercepted - extra commands sent down your ssh pipe. if your host cannt be trusted u are SOL. Sep 30 23:57:51 SpeedEvil: do it read-only Sep 30 23:57:53 raster: If you have the ssh key of the remote side, the local net is just a pipe. Sep 30 23:58:04 raster: it's connectin g froma chroot in the n900 too Sep 30 23:58:12 sure - once mounted your fs is "frozen" in its fat emulation state Sep 30 23:58:20 raster: Still needs someone to implement the much more aggressive daemon. Sep 30 23:58:25 files that are deleted or modified will end up wiht io errs Sep 30 23:58:32 until an unmount and remount Sep 30 23:59:32 jpinx-eeepc: u are still SOL. anything you can do - can be done by a malicious trojan/virus/app on the "internet cafe machine" Sep 30 23:59:43 if u can do it Sep 30 23:59:47 it can be done automated Oct 01 00:00:01 Hmmm Oct 01 00:00:09 simple version Oct 01 00:00:11 u ssh in Oct 01 00:00:15 and can type in commands Oct 01 00:00:16 ls Oct 01 00:00:16 rm Oct 01 00:00:17 etc. Oct 01 00:00:41 a malicious app can fake a kbd device input stream to your putty/ssh app Oct 01 00:00:45 and type in cmds for u Oct 01 00:00:47 eg Oct 01 00:00:48 rm -rf / Oct 01 00:00:57 there is NOTHING u can do Oct 01 00:01:07 if the host (internet cafe machine) is considered untrusted Oct 01 00:01:15 as this can be done al the way down in the drvier itself Oct 01 00:01:20 as deep as u like Oct 01 00:01:31 as u cannot make any assumptions on the security of this machine Oct 01 00:01:42 if u cant make assumptions - then u are insecure by definition Oct 01 00:01:59 everything u can do as a person, it can do as a malicious machine Oct 01 00:02:22 encryption works over an insecure network as u TRUST both ends of the encrypted pipe Oct 01 00:02:40 u can verify each end is the "Expceted trusted host" via cert checks Oct 01 00:02:44 etc. Oct 01 00:02:50 but in the end u trust both points of the conn Oct 01 00:02:57 facit? log in as user, not as root Oct 01 00:02:58 in your scenario the n900 is trusted Oct 01 00:03:02 but not the pc end of the conn Oct 01 00:03:12 Hmm -- I am only connecting to the internet cafe machine for the sake of the big screen and kbd Oct 01 00:03:24 the actual connection - usbnet itself is as trusted as either end of that conn Oct 01 00:03:28 so since u dont trust the pc Oct 01 00:03:32 then the whole thng cannot be trusted Oct 01 00:03:38 encryption or not Oct 01 00:03:48 STUXNET!!! Oct 01 00:04:22 DocScrutinizer51: its aqn internet cafe meachine - no root. its windows, let's say. the intternet cafe operates the host. it may have had "root" (admin) compromised Oct 01 00:04:35 the internet cafe itself may have snooping/trojan software installed as admin/root Oct 01 00:04:36 etc. Oct 01 00:04:40 so doesnt much matter Oct 01 00:04:43 it will.... Oct 01 00:04:56 u dont trust the machine Oct 01 00:05:01 anything you can do - it can do. Oct 01 00:05:19 unless u trust that machine - you shouldnt use it AT ALL Oct 01 00:05:28 ok raster there has to be a way to better secure the n900 Oct 01 00:05:38 there is Oct 01 00:05:39 raster: Unless you trust it to do limited things. Oct 01 00:05:53 dont connect to the n900 in ANY way other that FROM a trusted host Oct 01 00:06:00 SpeedEvil: thats my point Oct 01 00:06:04 u have to place some trust Oct 01 00:06:09 raster: For example, you may accept the risk of screen-scraping, and mitigate the risk of keyboard by having the n900 resting on the big keyboard and checking the noises. Oct 01 00:06:21 in the case jpinx-eeepc above outlined - its an "internet cafe" machine Oct 01 00:06:33 raster: but you are 'johndoe' (aka 'user') on N900 Oct 01 00:06:42 raster: I've already wondered about an opensource implementation of the sound->keystroke analyser, for the purposes of eliminating the keyboard. Oct 01 00:06:44 imagine one of those random pieces of junk in those crappy convenience stores somewhere in some backwater town in rural india? Oct 01 00:06:45 raster: *MY* 'sudo gainroot' asks for passwor Oct 01 00:06:45 d Oct 01 00:06:46 \or whatever Oct 01 00:06:47 keyboard cable Oct 01 00:07:00 where the guy who runs the convenience store is about as technical as a lump of mud Oct 01 00:07:08 all he did was pay for some adsl Oct 01 00:07:10 buy a pc Oct 01 00:07:12 plug it in Oct 01 00:07:17 * jpinx-eeepc uses internet cafe machines all over the third world - they are unlicenced, pirated XP home edition riddled with viruses Oct 01 00:07:19 and charge u 50rupees/hr to use it Oct 01 00:07:22 for example Oct 01 00:07:35 now imagine that machine has beeen there for 4 years Oct 01 00:07:47 by now its a virus and trojan and script kiddie infested MESS Oct 01 00:07:54 the kbdinput is logged and sent off somewhere Oct 01 00:08:11 theres a dozen viruses that have infested the kbd driver and otehre things that can insert keystrokes Oct 01 00:08:21 u cant trust that machine as far as u can throw it Oct 01 00:08:28 u just never connect it to your trusted n900 Oct 01 00:08:31 nothing u can do Oct 01 00:08:40 Sure there is. Oct 01 00:08:52 It's still useful as a network connection. Oct 01 00:08:54 any privilege u give that machine opens a hole to your n900 Oct 01 00:08:56 raster: ok - so I use the n900 keypad... I just want the big screeni Oct 01 00:09:10 an untrusted network connection you VPN through. But still. Oct 01 00:09:14 and by using its kbd/screen u are opening such a hole for yourself as a user - and thus it can access anything you can access via that same hole Oct 01 00:09:49 jpinx-eeepc: thats safer as u are allowing "output from n900 only" Oct 01 00:09:54 it doesn't even have to be root/admin Oct 01 00:10:07 there is a little keystroke recorder that you can connect in series with the keyboard Oct 01 00:10:10 raster: by the same token, I use their wifi to the n900, and everything will be snooped Oct 01 00:10:23 they are usually public wifi with a webpage login Oct 01 00:10:27 SpeedEvil: sure - but jpinx-eeepc is takling of using that pc as a kbd/screen Oct 01 00:10:34 raster: I was wondering today about data-over-skype. Oct 01 00:10:44 that means allowing unecrypted input from his fingers thru the kbd of that untrusted machine to the n900 Oct 01 00:10:45 raster: video skype call. Oct 01 00:10:55 so doesnt matter if u turn it into an encrypted session over usbnet Oct 01 00:11:04 raster: vpning over video patterns and audio patterns on the display, and camera Oct 01 00:11:04 its already made it thru the untrusted host unecrypted as kbd input Oct 01 00:11:22 the chain of trust is broken as soon as u press the key on that kbd :) Oct 01 00:11:30 raster: It's not. Oct 01 00:11:39 raster: You can unplug the keyboard, and use it that way Oct 01 00:12:03 Either using audio->keystroke, or virtual keyboard style, with the camera pointing at it. Oct 01 00:12:08 jpinx-eeepc: for wifi - as above. u connect frokma trusted host n900) and encrypt BEFORE it gets to the untrusted medium (their wifi), and gets decrypted at the other end (trusted server) Oct 01 00:12:27 Or even USB keyboard on USB host. Oct 01 00:12:31 SpeedEvil: vkbd doesnt help Oct 01 00:12:34 raster: tell that to my bank ) Oct 01 00:12:37 check backscroll or chanlogs for german ID cards Oct 01 00:12:42 if trojan/virus is scanning and recording the screen Oct 01 00:12:45 same issue Oct 01 00:12:51 and can issue the same fake mouse events to do it Oct 01 00:12:54 same principle Oct 01 00:13:03 u just make it harder and more "custom"' for your device Oct 01 00:13:15 raster: Sure - attacks that record the screen are mitigated by the simple fact of bandwidth of attack. Oct 01 00:13:17 sure - the virsus would need to expliucitly know how your system works Oct 01 00:13:22 as its unique/rare Oct 01 00:13:27 but thats security via obscurity :) Oct 01 00:13:52 * DocScrutinizer51 yawns Oct 01 00:13:52 raster: don't even need that... a tiny usb box in the keyboard cable and it is game over... Oct 01 00:14:05 ds3: that too Oct 01 00:14:09 thats my whole point Oct 01 00:14:32 if your taks is "real unbreakable security" u cannto have an untrusted element of the chain exist that has unecrypted data Oct 01 00:14:35 http://www.keelog.com/diy.html Oct 01 00:14:39 take a look at that :D Oct 01 00:14:43 thats everything from the kbd hw itself Oct 01 00:14:53 all the way to the entry point on your trusted host Oct 01 00:15:13 encryoption is only useful if you can trust the 2 ends Oct 01 00:15:27 then it can work through any number and type of untrusted hops along the way Oct 01 00:15:29 ..and then comes obama and wants the keys Oct 01 00:15:31 :) Oct 01 00:15:36 hahaha Oct 01 00:15:43 encryption/vpns/etc are all easy ways to get a false sense of security Oct 01 00:15:56 one must understand exactly what they are doing and the environment or there will be no security Oct 01 00:15:59 ds3: thats my point Oct 01 00:16:08 just throwing some encryuption in makes no sense Oct 01 00:16:14 UNLESS u also ensure both ends are trusted Oct 01 00:16:17 raster: *nod* just echoing what you are saying Oct 01 00:16:21 yeah Oct 01 00:16:24 if 1 end is not trusted - there is no point Oct 01 00:16:33 u just think its secure Oct 01 00:16:39 because u threw in some encryption Oct 01 00:16:59 if u want your n900 secure Oct 01 00:17:02 use its own kbd Oct 01 00:17:04 and its own screen Oct 01 00:17:12 and make sure u dont get anything malicious onto it Oct 01 00:17:14 ...and who knows if there are flaws/backdoors in the gsm/3g link too Oct 01 00:17:16 ie that u can trust it Oct 01 00:17:17 :) Oct 01 00:17:23 no indeed Oct 01 00:17:28 nox-: indeed Oct 01 00:17:30 or personally verify every bit of software that goes onto the bare hardware Oct 01 00:17:35 yup Oct 01 00:17:41 actually verify the hw too Oct 01 00:17:42 :) Oct 01 00:17:55 in Germany there's an age old sticker for phones (computers, whatever): "Feind hrt mit!" Oct 01 00:18:03 hehehe Oct 01 00:18:03 I hear you raster - I'll think again - thanks for the smack ! :) Oct 01 00:18:08 np Oct 01 00:18:08 look at the reports of how android apps are screwing over users despite the claims it is secure and will protect your data Oct 01 00:18:16 of course.. if u are willing to take a risk Oct 01 00:18:17 raster: it's not so much the logging of keystrokes/screens/etc . I can control what I ask for and only do non-important surfing like looking for flights Oct 01 00:18:19 u can "make it harder" Oct 01 00:18:26 by making it "more obscure" Oct 01 00:18:38 ie there is a lower CHANCE the attacker knows about your obscure connection/control method Oct 01 00:18:49 and a lower CHANCE that they can slip something in Oct 01 00:19:30 but now we are simply talking of risk factors as a percentage chance that they may be smart/knowledgebale enough to be able to figure your stuff out (in advance) Oct 01 00:19:36 encryuption itself depends on that too Oct 01 00:19:47 it just makes that chance so low that its effectively 0 Oct 01 00:19:52 security by obamity err obscurity Oct 01 00:20:00 never works Oct 01 00:20:01 all encryption (in common use today) can be decrypted Oct 01 00:20:08 given enough time and compute power Oct 01 00:20:37 juyst with long enough keys + good algorithms it makes that time+equipment required so rediculously huge Oct 01 00:20:39 that its silly Oct 01 00:21:06 (inthe end time + compute power becomes a dollar amount - how much hw do u have to buy to crak your encryption within 1 minute for example) Oct 01 00:21:14 ie a useful period of time to exploit it Oct 01 00:21:26 yeah wasnt there some job posting looking for quantum computing experts a while ago that said `assume working hw'? Oct 01 00:21:30 steganography ftw Oct 01 00:21:36 does it cost $0, $100, $1mil, $1billion, etc. etc. Oct 01 00:22:24 so for all we know, non-quantum encryption may already be worthless Oct 01 00:23:05 possible indeed Oct 01 00:23:12 quntumis worthless as well Oct 01 00:23:44 every laser is a quantum multiplier Oct 01 00:23:51 ok Oct 01 00:23:57 time to popsicle-stand Oct 01 00:24:45 whatever that maens Oct 01 00:25:02 that cleared the air ;) Oct 01 00:25:14 encryption is a delaying tactic Oct 01 00:25:28 so make your information worthless quicker then it takes to decrypt it Oct 01 00:25:35 ds3: very true . time and money will always crack it Oct 01 00:25:37 Or one-time-pad. Oct 01 00:25:50 Which nobody can crack - with proper pad managment Oct 01 00:26:35 DocScrutinizer51, sounds like he wants some icecream? :) Oct 01 00:26:48 OTP can be cracked with other means Oct 01 00:26:57 Britains, when getting that enigma from U147(?), were able to decode all the comu of last 3 years Oct 01 00:26:59 i.e. you crack the person, not the encryption. Oct 01 00:28:11 this is really a replay of a b-movie Oct 01 00:29:30 actually everything been stated several times Oct 01 00:29:56 steganography ftw Oct 01 00:31:09 my beer much more attractive than that old stinking security debate Oct 01 00:31:19 the fact that "security" is time-limited only means that you have to stay one step ahead by changing keys/passwds/etc more frequently Oct 01 00:31:39 * jpinx-eeepc pulls up a crate of guinness Oct 01 00:31:43 ohnoes Oct 01 00:31:49 Britains, when getting that enigma from U147(?), were able to decode all the comu of last 3 years Oct 01 00:33:35 crate? don't they come in kegs? Oct 01 00:34:29 crope comes in nuges Oct 01 00:35:54 ds3: has never sucked a bottle of guinness? Oct 01 00:36:10 it was aroun long before those kegs ;) Oct 01 00:36:12 d Oct 01 00:37:06 guinness is one of those beers that is just so much better from a keg... bottle isn't worth it in my opinion Oct 01 00:37:21 stuxnet wins Oct 01 00:37:51 next is a generic 8051 virus Oct 01 00:38:26 our hackers are already half way there Oct 01 00:38:48 haha Oct 01 00:39:18 someone go write a virus to target SCADA systems of breweries like budweiser Oct 01 00:40:15 FUCK DROPTEST to stone floor from 120cm, slide opened Oct 01 00:40:42 intentionally? :/ Oct 01 00:40:47 ffs! Oct 01 00:40:47 looks odd, maybe can fix the housing Oct 01 00:41:08 drunken gf Oct 01 00:41:36 lol Oct 01 00:41:50 did *her* slide open? Oct 01 00:41:58 my gf accomplishes that without the need for alcohol Oct 01 00:43:16 my fault. dont hug people while holding N900 Oct 01 00:43:43 :( Oct 01 00:43:51 well it 'works', no? Oct 01 00:45:31 if only there were some warranty with those devel devices Oct 01 00:46:11 then I'd dare to disassemble to fix it Oct 01 00:54:32 the screen half outer frame seems broken. Thought it's metal, now I realize it's plasitc that can have parts broken out Oct 01 00:54:47 :/ Oct 01 00:54:50 Damn. Oct 01 00:55:55 * jpinx-eeepc passes the araldite Oct 01 00:56:51 whatever that is Oct 01 00:58:43 glue Oct 01 00:59:20 drunken gf =) Oct 01 01:00:11 i like that abbreviation "gf" ... sometimes i can answer with: "You did WHAT with your grandfather???" Oct 01 01:01:28 do you really want to know the answer to that though? Oct 01 01:02:02 haha, not more than i want to know how you got your nick :D Oct 01 01:02:19 http://forum.nitdroid.com/index.php?topic=458.msg2598#new Oct 01 01:04:19 damn... who would have thought bzip2'ing a jffs2 image would take so long..!! Oct 01 01:04:20 well, in Germany it's normal to have GV with your GF Oct 01 01:06:00 GV? Oct 01 01:06:04 delt: isn't jffs2 already compressed? Oct 01 01:06:22 um, the wikipedia arcticle doesn't mention it at all..... Oct 01 01:06:41 actually 18:57 < delt> what puzzles me is thath http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS doesn't contain a single word that starts with "compres" Oct 01 01:06:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS2 does :-) Oct 01 01:07:48 *FACE. PALM.* duuuuh *then slaps forehead* anyone have a sledge hammer..... :/\/\/\/\/\ Oct 01 01:08:16 yeah, jffs2 is compressed Oct 01 01:08:22 so is ubifs Oct 01 01:08:27 so, junk food filesystem2 is indeed compr...yeah, compressed -) Oct 01 01:09:00 and if you have need to mount a jffs2 partition on your desktop, god help you :P Oct 01 01:09:09 need to simulate a block device and shit Oct 01 01:09:54 oh, on this computer? Oct 01 01:10:19 mount -o loop jffs2file.img /mnt/wherever .....? wouldnt work? Oct 01 01:10:32 nope Oct 01 01:10:58 http://www.digitalpeer.com/id/mount has an example of what to do Oct 01 01:11:00 whereas mount -o loop ext3file.img /mnt/whereverelse would..... Oct 01 01:11:13 doesn't look as bad on that page.. but it's a real mess when you think about it all, hehe Oct 01 01:11:40 dd if=jffs2.img of=/dev/mtdblock0 <--- so he uses a flash device as intermediate Oct 01 01:12:07 he emulates an mtd device Oct 01 01:12:11 then mounting said device itself and not the device Oct 01 01:12:16 then mounting said device itself and not the image Oct 01 01:12:17 then dd's the jffs2 image to it Oct 01 01:12:22 then mounts the mtd device Oct 01 01:12:31 * DocScrutinizer heads ut, cackling in an evil and mad manner Oct 01 01:12:42 ah ok... misread this line modprobe mtdram total_size=24576 erase_size=128 Oct 01 01:13:15 yeah, size may need to be adjusted for your jffs2 image Oct 01 01:13:30 there are other guides that talk more about it with actual docs Oct 01 01:13:39 openmoko's wiki likely has a whole page about it Oct 01 01:14:10 I should investigate how to cause a CORE MELTDOWN by appropriate I2C commands to the USB charger bq24150 chip Oct 01 01:14:21 openwiki's moko likely wuh what? Oct 01 01:14:33 moko???? Oct 01 01:14:41 ~joerg Oct 01 01:14:41 hmm... joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer Oct 01 01:14:44 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Jffs2 has some info and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image has more Oct 01 01:15:04 *looks up on wikipedia* Oct 01 01:15:11 meh Oct 01 01:15:16 have fun Oct 01 01:15:16 joerg du bist's ja? Oct 01 01:15:28 hab ein wenig deutsch in der schule gelernt =) Oct 01 01:16:17 UND JETZT IST MEINE GEDUL...uh i mean.... now my patience is up with fucking WINDOWS PARTITIONS!@#$% Oct 01 01:16:23 schoen fuer dich, aber ich muss dich leider gleich aus dem chanel kicken, fuer abusive language Oct 01 01:16:34 tml :( Oct 01 01:16:40 lol Oct 01 01:16:55 why am i doubting kicken is a real german verb Oct 01 01:17:10 oh it is... Oct 01 01:17:49 moment mal, "abusive language" als "fuck" "shit" usw.... oder einfach als deutsch schreiben Oct 01 01:17:52 ? Oct 01 01:18:32 kicker is a famous german news mag about football Oct 01 01:19:11 german is the 'better English' Oct 01 01:19:25 english -is- a "germanic" language Oct 01 01:19:44 for further answers ask youtube: frank zappa Oct 01 01:19:50 well, a simplified 10:1 german (at least ancient english with thee, thou, thy, ....) Oct 01 01:21:07 ドイツ語分からないな Oct 01 01:21:19 lerry likes to dress up funny, tonite he iss dressed up like Frank SSappa. Letss ask him, whatss se deal Oct 01 01:21:51 (FZ 200 Motels) Oct 01 01:22:04 also ieatlint...uh i mean "the person bearing the nickname ieatlint": canadian french has a LOT of "englishism" words that are waaaay worse than "kicken" :D Oct 01 01:22:38 french is a just a joke :P Oct 01 01:23:14 depends what revision of the language you are speaking Oct 01 01:23:45 also did you compile french as a module, or have it brain-built? Oct 01 01:24:28 french is a remedy used when you ate much too old oysters Oct 01 01:24:41 HAHAHAHA Oct 01 01:25:16 or what you'd THINK are old oysters..... or, either very very good cheese, or very very old shoe soles. Oct 01 01:26:04 ever been in china? in a really classical restaurant? :-D Oct 01 01:26:35 I never would want to eat that eggs Oct 01 01:27:22 nope.... but those.. chicken abortions from Cambodia were quite similar.... Oct 01 01:27:31 inside green like copper, outside transparent like platic stored in a air condition of a smokers' apartment Oct 01 01:28:03 and about 1/4 - 1/5 of the egg is a solid white-ish mass....that sticks to the inside of the shell? Oct 01 01:28:22 if we're talking about the same - or similar thing Oct 01 01:28:36 you'd never think anybody could even chew that Oct 01 01:28:59 the hard white thing? you're supposed to throw it away Oct 01 01:29:18 i guess many chinese think similar about drinking milk from a cow... Oct 01 01:29:35 same as we do for eating cats and dogs.... Oct 01 01:29:40 yah Oct 01 01:30:16 personally i dont really like aborted chickens, but they can eat cats all they want AS LONG AS ITS NOT MY PRECIOUS CAMILLE!!!! Oct 01 01:30:22 actually milk is becoming quite popular in china Oct 01 01:30:25 see i <3 my cat Oct 01 01:30:28 heh Oct 01 01:31:24 had her for about 8 years.... since she was a little baby kitten the size of a mouse Oct 01 01:31:26 shop prices rised for China buying out milk markets in Germany Oct 01 01:31:31 but dont many chinese have lactose intolerance? Oct 01 01:31:49 they give a shit Oct 01 01:31:52 hah Oct 01 01:32:07 like redskins give a shit bout ethanol Oct 01 01:32:32 it's ""cool"" Oct 01 01:32:41 :P Oct 01 01:32:44 and expensive Oct 01 01:32:57 what's chinook again? Oct 01 01:33:01 so if you can afford Oct 01 01:33:15 some maemo vesion? Oct 01 01:33:31 yeah, is that older or newer than fremantle? Oct 01 01:33:42 muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch older Oct 01 01:33:49 right, thanks Oct 01 01:35:44 oh, this X11 server running on the n810, is a X11 server, right? Oct 01 01:35:55 damn, thinking about my next breakfast... if I had paypal, how much would you pay for that answer? Oct 01 01:36:04 so what part of the UI would be "analogous" to the window manager? Oct 01 01:37:15 and would it be possible to configure that "window manager" (or of sorts) to support multi-workspace, like say, xfce, kde, windowmaker, etc....? Oct 01 01:37:19 * ShadowJK adjusted the clips holding the battery, and added 900 micrometers of paper padding ontop of sim bay Oct 01 01:37:32 and it's been stable for 15 whole minutes Oct 01 01:37:32 c'mon, not even some keystrokes like "0.00"? Oct 01 01:37:34 yay Oct 01 01:38:07 DocScrutinizer: sorry, i Oct 01 01:38:12 delt, it doesn't really have a workspace to begin with, considering windows have two possible sizes.. Oct 01 01:38:13 DocScrutinizer: sorry, i 've never had a mobile phone Oct 01 01:38:36 so that \n's why i never been familiar with open(or closed)moko Oct 01 01:38:40 k, n8 Oct 01 01:38:43 fucking US keyboard Oct 01 01:39:05 yeah... normal, fullscreen Oct 01 01:39:33 atleast on n8x0 there's physical button to switch app Oct 01 01:39:43 ruined N900 plus this non-reply. I think that's ebough for pleasant dreams Oct 01 01:39:58 heh Oct 01 01:40:05 so.... int x_size; int y_size; 64 bits (or 32 or 128 depending on architecture) gets replaced by 1 flag Oct 01 01:40:06 delt: by "aborted chickens" do you mean balut? Oct 01 01:40:14 ShadowJK: you're my alltime hero! Oct 01 01:40:34 yeah now you're drunk for sure Oct 01 01:40:48 personwhoclaimstoeatlint: Balut (egg), an Asian delicacy <--- in that case, yes Oct 01 01:40:48 not enough, for sure Oct 01 01:41:31 you can get balut here Oct 01 01:41:34 actually one beer plus one vodka can't really disturb my operation mode Oct 01 01:41:34 A balut is a fertilized duck (or chicken) egg with a nearly-developed embryo inside that is boiled and eaten in the shell. Oct 01 01:41:37 it's awesome for freaking out vegans Oct 01 01:42:03 yes, that looks a lot like it Oct 01 01:42:10 expensive though Oct 01 01:42:30 i dont mind the taste, or texture, but ...yeah 1. the price, and 2. out of respect.... Oct 01 01:42:45 but a girl hitting my N900 so it falls to the ground, that's actually a bummer Oct 01 01:43:15 DocScrutinizer: "drunken" as you mentioned earlier? :/ Oct 01 01:43:41 seems that is correct description, yes Oct 01 01:45:15 well, when i had a girlfriend and she was horny, she liked a lot when i was "indrunkitated".... the owner of the block where we lived made wine, sold it to us for $5 a bottle... would get a few and practically ....well, you get the idea Oct 01 01:45:18 * DocScrutinizer is off for preparing to do COBOL coding for some bank tomorrow Oct 01 01:46:13 anyhow, not that im in any way proud of that, but... meh, still good memories Oct 01 01:46:20 meamo doesn't buy bagels Oct 01 01:46:46 COBOL ... hehehe Oct 01 01:47:19 compilable lyrics Oct 01 01:47:50 COBOL im lucky i never had the ...pleasure of learning that in school Oct 01 01:48:28 inst that obsolete by a few decades or half a century btw? Oct 01 01:48:48 IF BLA IS GREATER THAN 5 THEN ADD 7 TO X, AFTER DIVIDE Y BY Z GIVING RESULT REMAINDER R Oct 01 01:49:41 heh, one thing that reminded me of that (maybe 10-15 years ago) was "hypercard" on the old mac's. had a very "fluent-english-like" scripting language Oct 01 01:50:03 dunno if that is still in any kind of use today, but .. i had lots of fun with that when i was in high school =)' Oct 01 01:50:09 -' Oct 01 01:50:31 i especially liked its global variable "it" Oct 01 01:51:12 "calculate the value of me + the next widget on this page" "put it in variable X" Oct 01 01:52:20 ms "visual" basic was a total ripoff of hypercard, except 1. it sucked in every aspect compared to, and 2. they were too cheap to develop a scripting language, so they used the basic interpreter they had pirated from sun microsystems like 10 years before Oct 01 01:52:55 you can have a COMPUTE A = B + 0 in cobol, but a COMPUTE A = B doesn't work. You have to use MOVE B TO A for that Oct 01 01:52:58 or whatever hideous mutation thereof, in the microsoft-ish style of.. microsoft Oct 01 01:54:23 MOVE CORRESPONDING is plain awesome Oct 01 01:55:09 no other language has this Oct 01 01:56:48 disconnects continue :( Oct 01 01:57:38 what language? Oct 01 01:58:56 crapo bullshit oriented language Oct 01 01:59:10 or something like that Oct 01 01:59:29 05 STRUCTA; 10 A PIC 9(5); 10 FILLER VALUE "that's just comment"; 10 B PIC 9(2) DSIPLAY; 05 STRUCTB; 10 B PIC 9(8) COMPUTATIONAL; A PIC A(4); ... MOVE CORR STRUCTB TO STRUCTA Oct 01 02:00:22 moves A to A and B to B Oct 01 02:00:46 while converting the values Oct 01 02:01:29 what was the "comment" mark in cobol? (did it even have one?) Oct 01 02:01:46 yes, a * in col 6 Oct 01 02:01:48 iirc Oct 01 02:02:17 ok, so if you spaced everything to be readable, and you had a number in the 4 digits starting....uh never mind :3 Oct 01 02:03:33 nah, if you never heard about STORAGE SECTION and LINKAGE SECTION, you just shouldn't bother Oct 01 02:04:48 compilable lyrics: a THEN as well as a comma ',' is alowable almost everywhere Oct 01 02:05:10 a IF clause is terminated by a . Oct 01 02:05:19 21:47 < DocScrutinizer> compilable lyrics Oct 01 02:05:25 yes, a DOT Oct 01 02:06:05 the dots always gave us much fun Oct 01 02:06:24 almost invisible on impact printer Oct 01 02:07:19 heh.... Oct 01 02:07:20 -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 206851135 2010-09-30 20:59 rootfs.img.bz2 Oct 01 02:07:20 [pts/9][user@deimos]:~/n810$ bunzip2 rootfs.img.bz2 Oct 01 02:07:20 [pts/9][user@deimos]:~/n810$ l rootfs.img Oct 01 02:07:23 -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 261619712 2010-09-30 20:59 rootfs.img Oct 01 02:07:46 thats the jffs2 image Oct 01 02:08:28 so balut eggs do support compre..uh wait... Oct 01 02:09:06 IF FOO IS EQUAL TO BAR THEN ADD 1 TO VAR-A, THEN DIVIDE VAR-B BY 2. THEN CONTINUE WITH VAR-X DIVIDING X IN VAR-X BY 4 GIVING VOID REMAINDER MODULO-X Oct 01 02:09:07 cambodians never cooked balut eggs on a jffs2 filesystem?? Oct 01 02:09:32 naybody seen the dot? Oct 01 02:09:45 DocScrutinizer: yeah, if that wasnt ALL-CAPS it would pretty much resemble "hyperscript" on the old mac =) Oct 01 02:09:50 yeah after the 2. Oct 01 02:13:20 NOTE THIS IS a comment, until DOT. Oct 01 02:14:27 you can have NOTEs everywhere Oct 01 02:14:38 in hypercard it was -- Oct 01 02:14:53 NOTE == /*, DOT (.) == */ Oct 01 02:15:11 add 1 to x -- we count one more Oct 01 02:15:54 ADD ONE TO X GIVING Y. now guess if X has changed or not Oct 01 02:16:15 um.. in C that would be easy, depends if you use ++X or X++ Oct 01 02:16:30 but i dont know cobol enough to..uh..... i dont know cobol :) Oct 01 02:17:01 um no scratch that... havent coded in too long Oct 01 02:17:26 my guess: X HAS CHANGED, just to fuck everyone up? Oct 01 02:17:37 COBOL is a giant when it comes to sort / merge of incredibly lagre sets of records in files Oct 01 02:18:12 tbh I don't remember if Xhas changed or not Oct 01 02:18:27 I always use COMPUTE for that Oct 01 02:18:38 COMPUTE x = x + 1 Oct 01 02:18:43 hmm...... Oct 01 02:18:43 JFFS2 version 2.2. (NAND) © 2001-2006 Red Hat, Inc. Oct 01 02:18:44 MTD: Attempt to mount non-MTD device "/dev/loop0" Oct 01 02:19:05 that is after: mount -o loop -t jffs2 rootfs.img /mnt/ Oct 01 02:19:19 or ADD 1 to X Oct 01 02:19:56 friggin nifgtmare Oct 01 02:20:49 GIVING waaaaaaaahhh Oct 01 02:21:23 google for COBOL 88 Oct 01 02:21:32 ADD "girlfriend" to "me" GIVING "head" Oct 01 02:21:55 won't work, no " allowed Oct 01 02:22:31 except for string constants maybe Oct 01 02:22:54 hehe would have thought so Oct 01 02:23:04 print GO FUCK YOURSELF ASSHOLE Oct 01 02:23:08 microfocus cobol, blarghhh Oct 01 02:23:13 unknown output device ASSHOLE Oct 01 02:23:55 STOP RUN Oct 01 02:24:27 um that would be "stop" and then "run" or "stop the run"? Oct 01 02:25:09 left to reader for exercise Oct 01 02:26:12 void warranty(seal) {if (broken) {}} Oct 01 02:35:49 * GeneralAntilles boots an N800. Oct 01 02:37:55 oh, i installed a package from the extras repo, that changes the behaviour of the swap? (2 rectangles overlapped) button on the left of the n810 Oct 01 02:38:09 .... to a mac osx style "tile" display of running processes Oct 01 02:38:19 * cehteh had an excellent bug yesterday Oct 01 02:38:22 i dont even remember what was the default behaviour of that button :D Oct 01 02:38:27 People complained a lot about the hardware, but it really had a lot to recommend. . . . Oct 01 02:38:46 when rearraning desktop icons every contact-icon was doubled (and exact copy underneath) Oct 01 02:38:59 but deleting one of them deleted both :P Oct 01 02:39:09 uh wuh? Oct 01 02:39:15 thewebsiteisdown.com Oct 01 02:39:16 :D Oct 01 02:39:28 the first clip they have on there is hilarious Oct 01 02:39:52 "sales guy vs. web dude" or something Oct 01 02:39:59 lmao'd several times watching it :D Oct 01 02:46:00 so... "knots" (stream media from your desktop computer) is pretty useless if you have nfs working, i presume...? Oct 01 02:46:40 I forget, does knota do the upnp thing? Oct 01 02:47:04 some of these things have the desktop transcode videos on the fly to something more suitable Oct 01 02:47:52 cd - is a blessing when you can type 2 characters per second instead of 20, hehh..... Oct 01 02:48:51 so how did you end up getting a n810 (right?) at this point in time Oct 01 02:49:28 my brother sold it to me, wanted one with cellphone capabilities builtin Oct 01 02:49:40 and he got it second hand from a guy in ontario Oct 01 02:49:47 so it was mine uh.... 3rd hand :D Oct 01 02:49:53 ah :) Oct 01 02:50:05 still owe him $40-50 bucks for it btw, had it for almost 2 weeks now Oct 01 02:50:05 is it still on original battery? Oct 01 02:50:18 well, says nokia on it.... Oct 01 02:50:26 impressive :) Oct 01 02:51:22 fully or 9x% charged, says about 5 hours operation, as per specs i read on the net before "buyrowing" it from my bro (: Oct 01 02:52:27 the meter lies :) Oct 01 02:52:44 or rather, it always assumes the battery is brand new Oct 01 02:53:15 for the last few years, was always carrying an ipod nano (or more recently a sansa e260) .... which i mostly used to have my notes/phone#/etc. handy Oct 01 02:53:25 and sometimes to listen to music Oct 01 02:53:28 * ShadowJK is the local battery geek Oct 01 02:53:36 hehe Oct 01 02:54:19 well, this one gives me a good 3:30 - 4:00 hours continuous without plugging to the charger Oct 01 02:54:29 No! Oct 01 02:54:32 * SpeedEvil is! Oct 01 02:54:47 Today I started building my battery analyser. Oct 01 02:54:59 To do 12V/3.3/1.2 cells Oct 01 02:55:04 how much$ would a brand new one cost, say on ebay once i get sick of this one ie. when it drops to 10 minutes after 5 hours charging :D Oct 01 02:55:04 well - batteries Oct 01 02:55:21 $4? Oct 01 02:55:32 Ebay batteries work well for most people. Oct 01 02:55:34 But... Oct 01 02:55:35 they kinda vary in quality :/ Oct 01 02:55:55 plus $19.95 shipping, + border taxes, broker, hmm, $87.39 not too bad Oct 01 02:55:57 my original nokia is slightly pregnant and has about half capacity left Oct 01 02:56:29 speaking of pregnant i got a phone call from an old friend today, hadnt seen her in almost a year Oct 01 02:56:40 and well.. punchline is..... she's pregnant :3 Oct 01 02:56:54 $4 from china with hong kong post sailing past customs, $4 for cupcakes for the mailman so he doesn't take it and flog on ebay Oct 01 02:57:26 hey, what if i solder 2 or more of them in parallel, like i did with the ipod :D that worked, heheh Oct 01 02:58:39 or just buy a broken n8x0 on ebay for parts (like for ex. the battery connector) and solder said connector in parallel well.. you get the idea Oct 01 02:59:45 oh, i also noticed milkytracker is in the extras repo, which is AWESOME!!!! ....but no schism tracker????? come on..... !!! Oct 01 02:59:50 greetings, I have a n900 and just got a pico projector. It's a projector that has AV video input. I got a blue screen on the device.. any ideas? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 01 02:59:57 2010