**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 04 02:59:57 2010
Oct 04 03:13:02 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody know how the E.F.F. script works?
Oct 04 03:13:19 <GeneralAntilles> I mean, to save me from having to download it and read the source. :P
Oct 04 03:14:47 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, guess it's not the hardware feature.
Oct 04 03:14:50 <GeneralAntilles> Ho hum
Oct 04 03:34:34 <SpeedEvil> http://b3ta.com/board/10189575 :)
Oct 04 03:39:44 <MohammadAG51> who knows gconf, C, and hildon
Oct 04 05:16:37 <foowaffle> hello
Oct 04 05:17:13 <slonopotamus> ohai
Oct 04 05:19:42 <foowaffle> what phones have meego on it?
Oct 04 05:21:40 <slonopotamus> foowaffle: -> #meego
Oct 04 05:22:47 <slonopotamus> you can run meego on n900, but it ain't for daily use
Oct 04 05:23:19 <foowaffle> woops sorry didnt notice the drifferent
Oct 04 05:23:24 <foowaffle> thanks
Oct 04 05:51:04 <slonopotamus> maemo.org down?
Oct 04 05:58:37 <Termana> slonopotamus, maemo.org is up
Oct 04 05:58:43 <Termana> slonopotamus, http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com for future use :p
Oct 04 06:00:01 <slonopotamus> downforeveryoneorjustme.com down?
Oct 04 06:00:06 <slonopotamus> :P
Oct 04 07:43:35 <rantom> Hehehe
Oct 04 07:43:47 <rantom> And yet again, we see the quality of the talk.maemo.org
Oct 04 07:43:52 <rantom> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=830726&postcount=202
Oct 04 07:44:02 <rantom> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=832650&postcount=218 reply :)
Oct 04 07:44:41 <rantom> Granted, I got some good laughs from that, not a bad way to start a new day
Oct 04 07:48:46 <jacekowski> Invalid Post specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator
Oct 04 07:48:53 <rantom> Darn it
Oct 04 07:48:56 <rantom> They removed it
Oct 04 07:48:57 <jacekowski> can you paste content
Oct 04 07:49:04 <rantom> No, unfortunately not
Oct 04 07:49:08 <jacekowski> or say what was it about
Oct 04 07:49:59 <rantom> Nah, I was just being quite politely clear about the fact, that how annoying it is to get "i think hes dead" with bad English to your inbox, since it's not helping at all on the development
Oct 04 07:50:22 <rantom> And the response was purely cursing and bad English
Oct 04 07:50:46 <rantom> And some kind of note for me to get a life. Wonder what that is though...
Oct 04 07:50:52 <jacekowski> and that "i think hes dead" was related to what?
Oct 04 07:51:16 <rantom> To the developer
Oct 04 07:51:22 <rantom> 's activity*
Oct 04 07:51:37 <jacekowski> is he?
Oct 04 07:51:40 <rantom> He had not kept his promises and I defended hi
Oct 04 07:51:41 <rantom> m
Oct 04 07:51:45 <rantom> No
Oct 04 07:52:00 <jacekowski> developer of what?
Oct 04 07:52:42 <rantom> MohammadAG of Kinetic Scrolling for PR 1.2
Oct 04 07:53:01 <jacekowski> well, yeah, that's a problem with most open sources communities
Oct 04 07:53:06 <Termana> heh, he's definitely not dead ;p
Oct 04 07:53:12 <jacekowski> you can't say anything because it will be taken against you
Oct 04 07:53:38 <rantom> Funniest part here was that the MohammadAG and four other users Thanked! me for that post :D
Oct 04 07:54:19 <jacekowski> when i do something i just announce it when it's done
Oct 04 07:54:28 <rantom> That's the way it should be
Oct 04 07:54:44 <rantom> Do NOT frustrate the developer
Oct 04 07:57:12 <rantom> Aha, and I got an infraction worth of 20 points
Oct 04 07:57:13 <rantom> Yay :D
Oct 04 08:00:11 <rantom> http://talk.maemo.org/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_faq "Infraction and Banning"
Oct 04 08:00:31 <rantom> Not that big of a deal to me though, I'll let them ban if they see it fit
Oct 04 08:05:25 <jacekowski> cunts
Oct 04 08:06:06 <rantom> You mean the mods?
Oct 04 08:06:21 <rantom> (or moderators, which one you prefer)
Oct 04 08:09:07 <rantom> In any case, if you did mean the mods, I woulnd't blame them. It's my fault, since my attack was indeed too direct, I should've written instead "Would you mind to stop the spamming" more or less non-personal "attack"
Oct 04 08:09:16 <rantom> Oh well, what's done is done
Oct 04 08:11:25 <jacekowski> well, all of them really
Oct 04 08:44:30 <rmrfchik> wazzup
Oct 04 08:57:23 <n900-space> hi all
Oct 04 08:57:43 <n900-space> I cant set madde target, can anyone help?
Oct 04 08:57:54 <n900-space> i have installed the latest nokia qt sdk
Oct 04 08:58:12 <n900-space> Targets: fremantle-1030     (installable) maemo412-1         (installable)  Runtimes: qemu-n900-pr12  (installable)
Oct 04 08:58:41 <n900-space> but when i do a "mad set fremantle-1030" it doesnt work
Oct 04 08:58:56 <timeless_mbp> doesn't installable imply you haven't installed it?
Oct 04 08:59:02 <n900-space> says "Target 'fremantle-1030' does not exist"
Oct 04 08:59:17 <n900-space> how do i install it
Oct 04 08:59:33 <n900-space> i installed the complete nokia sdk
Oct 04 08:59:35 <timeless_mbp> um, i just woke up, and haven't touched that ui in about 6-12 weeks
Oct 04 08:59:52 <n900-space> you mean the madde console
Oct 04 08:59:53 <n900-space> ?
Oct 04 09:00:03 <timeless_mbp> (i touched it precisely once, producing 50-100 items of feedback for the madde team)
Oct 04 09:00:38 <timeless_mbp> oh, and i was using the GUI version not the CLI :)
Oct 04 09:00:49 <timeless_mbp> if you're new here, i'd suggest you consider trying the GUI first
Oct 04 09:01:05 <alterego> There's a GUI
Oct 04 09:01:12 <alterego> Are you talking about Qt Creator?
Oct 04 09:01:21 <n900-space> plus there is one more problem :( ... the QT Creator I launch, says the examples are not installed (but i can find them in the directories), plus no help is available, the index comes emtpy, I dont know whats wrong,
Oct 04 09:01:34 <n900-space> i have uninstalled and installed the whole sdk several times but same results.
Oct 04 09:01:43 <timeless_mbp> btw, it's Qt, not QT
Oct 04 09:01:43 <alterego> Strange,
Oct 04 09:01:45 <timeless_mbp> QT is QuickTime
Oct 04 09:01:53 <alterego> Heh
Oct 04 09:02:06 <n900-space> No I was talking about madde, when I said the "mad set fremantle-1030" is not working ..
Oct 04 09:02:25 <n900-space> ok about QT :)
Oct 04 09:02:33 <n900-space> Qt is what i'm talking about.
Oct 04 09:02:44 <n900-space> This has been frustrating.
Oct 04 09:03:08 <timeless_mbp> use the GUI. iirc it's MADE (as opposed to madde, the number of D's matter. gah)
Oct 04 09:03:27 <n900-space> Btw I'm in windows 7. So i rebooted to fedora 12, Installed the Nokia Qt SDK there also. But I dont know how to access madde there on console.
Oct 04 09:03:32 <Venemo> hi
Oct 04 09:03:42 <n900-space> no its "madde", with double D
Oct 04 09:03:55 <Venemo> n900-space: sorry, I'm a bit late to the party. what's your issue?
Oct 04 09:04:08 <n900-space> hi Venemo
Oct 04 09:04:19 <alterego> Not tried with Windows 7, might do today actually, would be nice to have a series 60 compilation environment.
Oct 04 09:04:57 <Venemo> n900-space: MADDE and Nokia Qt SDK works for me on Windows 7, so what's your problem?
Oct 04 09:05:55 <n900-space> Several: First: I installed the latest Nokia Qt Sdk. Launched qt creator, it says examples not installed. But I can find them in the directories (maybe some configurations problem), also qt creator doesnt show any help
Oct 04 09:06:03 <n900-space> Help index comes up blank.
Oct 04 09:06:32 <timeless_mbp> file bugs to Nokia Qt SDK team :)
Oct 04 09:06:34 <Venemo> n900-space: yes, that is happening for me too
Oct 04 09:06:52 <Venemo> n900-space: the guys in #qt may be of better help for issues like this
Oct 04 09:07:27 <n900-space> ok then Venemo tell me this, during the installation, did u get any errors like "qmake.exe is already busy" with Ignore/Retry button options?
Oct 04 09:08:12 <Venemo> n900-space: no, I didn't
Oct 04 09:08:17 <n900-space> hmm
Oct 04 09:08:24 <n900-space> ok about madde.
Oct 04 09:08:25 <jarkkom> I had all kinds of issues with Qt SDK on windows until I installed it in default location at C:\NokiaQtSDK
Oct 04 09:08:39 <n900-space> I'm getting problem doing "mad set"
Oct 04 09:08:56 <jarkkom> after that, it works fine on win7 64bit
Oct 04 09:09:02 <n900-space> Targets: fremantle-1030     (installable) maemo412-1         (installable)  Runtimes: qemu-n900-pr12  (installable)
Oct 04 09:09:29 <n900-space> jarkkom: I'm also installing it on the default location.
Oct 04 09:09:52 <n900-space> Venemo: when i do a "mad set fremantle-1030", it says target is not installed.
Oct 04 09:09:57 <n900-space> So how do i install it?
Oct 04 09:10:37 <Venemo> n900-space: I'm not sure what that command does
Oct 04 09:10:46 <Venemo> n900-space: for me, it simply works after installation
Oct 04 09:10:59 <n900-space> or, how do you set target? Or when you do "mad list" do you get any target that is set to "default"
Oct 04 09:11:24 <n900-space> yes it used to work seemlessly with the 1.0 nokia sdk, but now it doesnt
Oct 04 09:11:25 <n900-space> :(
Oct 04 09:11:45 <Venemo> mad-list says that "fremantle-pr12" is the default for me
Oct 04 09:11:52 <n900-space> aha
Oct 04 09:12:16 <n900-space> Why dont they give a proper help for madde?
Oct 04 09:12:28 <Venemo> n900-space: they do
Oct 04 09:12:41 <n900-space> I mean is there a proper help page with all commands completely listed?
Oct 04 09:12:48 <Venemo> n900-space: what does "mad list" say to you?
Oct 04 09:13:07 <n900-space> I know one, but it only works if your "default" is already set, then everything is fine.
Oct 04 09:13:14 <n900-space> well my mad list is this
Oct 04 09:13:18 <n900-space> Targets:
Oct 04 09:13:22 <n900-space> fremantle-1030     (installable)
Oct 04 09:13:26 <n900-space> maemo412-1         (installable)
Oct 04 09:13:30 <n900-space> Runtimes:
Oct 04 09:13:33 <n900-space> qemu-n900-pr12  (installable)
Oct 04 09:13:52 <Venemo> so it is screwed up, hm.
Oct 04 09:13:59 <n900-space> is it?
Oct 04 09:14:03 <Venemo> I dunno.
Oct 04 09:14:07 <Venemo> mine says:
Oct 04 09:14:18 <Venemo> Targets:
Oct 04 09:14:19 <Venemo> fremantle-pr12     (default)
Oct 04 09:14:19 <Venemo> maemo412-1         (installable)
Oct 04 09:14:19 <Venemo> Runtimes:
Oct 04 09:14:19 <Venemo> rx51-fremantle-pr12  (default)
Oct 04 09:14:26 <n900-space> where is the proper madde documentation?
Oct 04 09:14:36 <alterego> There's documentation?
Oct 04 09:14:46 <n900-space> madde documentation :)
Oct 04 09:14:49 <n900-space> is there ?
Oct 04 09:14:50 <n900-space> :)
Oct 04 09:17:00 <n900-space> this page http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Getting_started_with_MADDE_on_Windows is no help .. so basic
Oct 04 09:17:11 <Venemo> n900-space: http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE
Oct 04 09:17:35 <Venemo> n900-space: you may also want to download MADDE itself from tablets-dev
Oct 04 09:17:50 <n900-space> thanks Venemo
Oct 04 09:18:26 <n900-space> yes but then how does it work, i mean there is going to be one installed with the nokia sdk and one downloaded seperately. Its confusing for me
Oct 04 09:18:44 <n900-space> I have a whole huge folder of madde inside nokia sdk
Oct 04 09:19:40 <TermanaDesire> n900-space: stop spamming the room. I can scroll up and see two screens of basically you on seperate lines. Join sentences to one line and pastebin code, errors etc. Thanks :)
Oct 04 09:20:32 <n900-space> oh sorry ...
Oct 04 09:20:35 <Venemo> n900-space: yeah. you can either uninstall that completely, or just use the one that you can install separately
Oct 04 09:21:54 <n900-space> aha
Oct 04 09:21:59 <n900-space> sigh
Oct 04 09:22:06 <n900-space> okk tell me one thing.
Oct 04 09:22:33 <Venemo> n900-space: I for one will uninstall the Nokia Qt SDK completely. Since I use a newer Qt Creator nightly along with the separately downloadable MADDE...
Oct 04 09:22:35 <n900-space> Say I download the source code of xchat from maemo.org repositories, and now i want to compile it.
Oct 04 09:23:00 <n900-space> Will I somehow open it in qt creator, or just compile and build and deploy from the madde console? How do people do it?
Oct 04 09:25:40 <alterego> Oooo, mobility 1.1.0
Oct 04 09:26:15 <Venemo> n900-space: XChat is not Qt-based.
Oct 04 09:26:45 <Venemo> n900-space: so Qt Creator may not be able to do that job for you
Oct 04 09:27:36 <n900-space> hmm
Oct 04 09:29:05 <n900-space> sigh
Oct 04 09:29:12 <n900-space> means a lot of time online for all this :)
Oct 04 09:29:20 <n900-space> thank you guys :)
Oct 04 09:29:27 <Venemo> n900-space: it might (I for one successfully used it for some Gtk stuff), but I dunno
Oct 04 09:29:42 <n900-space> Venemo: that madde help page is helpful thanks, I can finally *install* a new target I think :)
Oct 04 09:29:56 <Venemo> n900-space: I'm happy I could help
Oct 04 09:40:06 <lcuk> Venemo, you are MADDE using mad to build all extra stuff, but that sort of experimentation is awesome
Oct 04 09:40:58 <n900-space> please explain lcuk
Oct 04 09:41:41 <lcuk> n900-space, Venemo knows exactly what I mean, I think hes awesome for pushing what MADDE can do inside it
Oct 04 09:41:44 <alterego> Well, if you plan on uplkoading to extras, scratchbox is somewhat better suited as it's the same environment the autobuilder uses.
Oct 04 09:41:51 <Chani> oh boy.
Oct 04 09:41:53 <lcuk> alterego, sure
Oct 04 09:42:00 <timeless_mbp> alterego: eh?
Oct 04 09:42:01 <alterego> But madde is fun
Oct 04 09:42:01 * Chani was thinking of trying out madde next
Oct 04 09:42:06 <timeless_mbp> doesn't MADDE use scratchbox?
Oct 04 09:42:15 <Venemo> lcuk: yeah, as the application's name suggests, I am a "mad developer" :D
Oct 04 09:42:16 <alterego> timeless_mbp: erm, no
Oct 04 09:42:19 <Venemo> timeless_mbp: nope.
Oct 04 09:42:25 <mece> kubuntu mobile.. could be sweet
Oct 04 09:42:30 <alterego> timeless_mbp: madde is it's own toolchain and root image.
Oct 04 09:42:33 <alterego> Doesn't use chroot
Oct 04 09:42:43 <timeless_mbp> so it's classic cross compile?
Oct 04 09:42:48 <alterego> timeless_mbp: yeah
Oct 04 09:42:54 <timeless_mbp> oops
Oct 04 09:42:56 <alterego> Not as much wacky magick
Oct 04 09:44:54 * timeless_mbp grumbles
Oct 04 09:45:34 <n900-space> hmm
Oct 04 09:54:30 <sivang> morninga
Oct 04 09:54:59 <sivang> or rather morning
Oct 04 09:55:06 <Venemo> sivang: good morning
Oct 04 09:55:11 <sivang> timeless_mbp: back at mbp
Oct 04 09:55:17 <sivang> morning Venemo
Oct 04 09:55:58 <timeless_mbp> yep
Oct 04 09:56:09 <timeless_mbp> phone's dead
Oct 04 09:56:14 <timeless_mbp> it forgot to get a charger
Oct 04 09:56:18 <sivang> ah
Oct 04 09:56:19 <timeless_mbp> home sweet starving
Oct 04 09:56:28 <sivang> no food at home?
Oct 04 09:56:47 <timeless_mbp> no charger plugged into the power strip for the phone
Oct 04 09:57:01 <sivang> ah
Oct 04 09:57:04 <timeless_mbp> my mac was unhappy when i came back, i had left the strip unplugged so the mac starved while i was away
Oct 04 09:57:16 <sivang> ah, I see
Oct 04 09:57:28 * timeless_mbp goes to feed phone
Oct 04 09:57:32 <Venemo> I'd like to install the latest fennec nightly, but I get "E: Handler silently failed" from apt-get
Oct 04 09:57:37 <sivang> I hate when it happens. Sometimes it makes the battery die
Oct 04 09:57:39 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, did any of the UK accents make you giggle more than others?
Oct 04 09:57:41 <Venemo> what can I do about this?
Oct 04 09:57:52 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: some were really hard to understand
Oct 04 09:58:07 <timeless_mbp> like N.I. (bus driver) having just gotten off the boat
Oct 04 09:58:13 <timeless_mbp> (from Scotland)
Oct 04 09:59:06 <lcuk> heads up display showing subtitles might be good for future generations! :D
Oct 04 09:59:18 <jacekowski> welsh is hard to understand
Oct 04 10:00:32 <timeless_mbp> ignoring the bus driver...
Oct 04 10:00:43 <timeless_mbp> i think i had more trouble w/ accents of women than men
Oct 04 10:03:18 <timeless_mbp> (17-40)
Oct 04 10:03:30 <timeless_mbp> that might be because the women were often talking to eachother or other locals
Oct 04 10:03:40 <timeless_mbp> whereas i was generally speaking directly with individual men
Oct 04 10:13:45 <Khertan_> Hi !
Oct 04 10:14:06 <Venemo> hey Khertan_ !
Oct 04 10:14:19 <Khertan_> Does ovi store is wronking for you ?
Oct 04 10:14:32 <Khertan_> i ll like to test Kroll
Oct 04 10:14:45 <Khertan_> s/wronking/working
Oct 04 10:15:03 <Khertan_> but ovistore said there is no content in all category
Oct 04 10:15:11 <Venemo> Khertan_: weird
Oct 04 10:15:12 <Khertan_> s/category/categories
Oct 04 10:15:14 <Khertan_> hi Venemo
Oct 04 10:37:23 * Khertan_ hate ovistore ... why they didn't put Kroll on the maemo repository !
Oct 04 10:45:41 <timeless_mbp> sp3000:  you @lunch?
Oct 04 10:45:47 * timeless_mbp didn't quite wake up properly
Oct 04 10:45:48 <timeless_mbp> :(
Oct 04 10:46:37 <sp3000> lunched already
Oct 04 10:47:20 <timeless_mbp> did you make it to 9am?
Oct 04 10:47:38 <sp3000> sure
Oct 04 10:47:54 <timeless_mbp> hrm, picasa said copying 205 of 204 files...
Oct 04 10:48:32 <jani> was there anything interesting in the 9am meeting ?
Oct 04 10:49:32 <timeless_mbp> i wasn't there
Oct 04 10:49:36 <timeless_mbp> but it shouldn't be discussed here
Oct 04 10:49:46 <timeless_mbp> maybe i can invite people to an afternoon tea :)
Oct 04 10:50:28 * timeless_mbp goes back to coughing
Oct 04 10:52:58 <tybollt> timeless_mbp: will there be cookies?
Oct 04 10:53:44 <timeless_mbp> i didn't pick up any on this trip ;(
Oct 04 10:53:53 <timeless_mbp> but yeah, i can probably spring for some
Oct 04 10:53:53 <Termana> timeless, and Nigerian Dog Attacks?
Oct 04 10:55:01 <timeless_mbp> do i want to know?
Oct 04 10:57:51 <Termana> timeless, are you bringing some NDAs to your little tea party?
Oct 04 10:58:29 <timeless_mbp> tea would be served on the ground floor
Oct 04 10:58:42 <timeless_mbp> so technically any visitor is able to visit
Oct 04 10:58:51 <timeless_mbp> but you're supposed to have a host and a guest badge
Oct 04 10:59:01 <timeless_mbp> since i don't know anything, someone else would have to bring the other stuff
Oct 04 11:02:00 <jani> ground floor calling, i need a doze of freshly burned nicotine..
Oct 04 11:04:09 <timeless_mbp> hrm, i'm 15mins away
Oct 04 11:04:22 <timeless_mbp> (not counting time to import my photo album)
Oct 04 11:04:34 <jani> btw, is creating merge requests always *slow* in gitorious ?
Oct 04 11:04:53 <Venemo> jani, gitorious is always slow
Oct 04 11:05:16 <timeless_mbp> jani: i don't really know what gitorious merge requests *do*
Oct 04 11:07:26 <jani> omg. i just started to hate gitorious.  i need that break right now.
Oct 04 11:08:29 <timeless_mbp> well, i've imported another 1/2gb of photos
Oct 04 11:08:34 <timeless_mbp> i guess i could visit the tea center
Oct 04 11:09:52 <Venemo> "apt-get install fennec" -> "E: Handler silently failed" :(((
Oct 04 11:10:08 <Venemo> wtf is this error message?
Oct 04 11:10:51 <timeless_mbp> try dpkg -i w/ partial/archives?
Oct 04 11:11:26 <Venemo> timeless_mbp: I'm sorry?
Oct 04 11:24:01 <famicom> c
Oct 04 12:28:02 <Khertan_> Nokia-N900:~# apt-get install kroll Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Handler silently failed
Oct 04 12:28:07 <Khertan_> lol any idea ?
Oct 04 12:31:47 <crashanddie> Khertan_, try with apt-get -v install kroll
Oct 04 12:31:49 <crashanddie> or -V
Oct 04 12:35:25 <Khertan_> crashanddie: thx i'll try once apt-get update finish his job :)
Oct 04 12:36:10 <crashanddie> its job :)
Oct 04 12:37:07 <Khertan_> crashanddie: but it didn't do its job well
Oct 04 12:37:14 <Khertan_> :)
Oct 04 12:37:55 <Khertan_> http://pastebin.com/JHAQLv5q
Oct 04 12:38:52 <jacktheripper> can't I choose a file (or filesystem) on the N900 to expose instead of MyDocs when connected to a computer through USB ?
Oct 04 12:39:17 <crashanddie> no
Oct 04 12:39:36 <jacktheripper> no as in impossible, or no as in complicated ?
Oct 04 12:39:50 <mgedmin> almost nothing is impossible in software
Oct 04 12:39:58 <jacktheripper> that's what I think.
Oct 04 12:40:21 <jacktheripper> and that's also why I'm checking ke-recv's source.
Oct 04 12:40:26 <mgedmin> what problem are you trying to solve?
Oct 04 12:41:18 <jacktheripper> a linux rescue livecd that's stored on my phone and that can boot whatever computer.
Oct 04 12:41:43 <mgedmin> solvable
Oct 04 12:41:45 <mgedmin> should be
Oct 04 12:41:59 <crashanddie> jacktheripper, i guess you could mount something else to /home/user/MyDocs
Oct 04 12:42:05 <crashanddie> just mount an iso instead
Oct 04 12:42:26 <jacktheripper> I'll try that
Oct 04 12:42:29 <crashanddie> root; umount /home/user/MyDocs; mount -o loop myfile.iso /home/user/MyDocs
Oct 04 12:42:34 <mgedmin> I used this recipe to make a bootable USB flash drive that boots an ISO image from a file in it: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1288604
Oct 04 12:42:35 <crashanddie> don't know what the behaviour will be though.
Oct 04 12:42:39 <mgedmin> crashanddie, won't work
Oct 04 12:42:50 <mgedmin> I'm 85% sure
Oct 04 12:43:51 <jacktheripper> mgedmin, that's probably possible, but the boot files right on MyDocs would look dirty I think. That would be my final resort. I'm trying to have the choice to choose any ISO to mount and expose to a computer.
Oct 04 12:44:37 <jacktheripper> or any filesystem image.
Oct 04 12:44:43 <mgedmin> jacktheripper, do you have a spare USB flash drive?
Oct 04 12:44:49 <jacktheripper> sure
Oct 04 12:44:51 <mgedmin> can you try dd'ing the ISO image into it and booting from it?
Oct 04 12:44:57 <mgedmin> this needs special support from the ISO image, AFAIU
Oct 04 12:45:06 <mgedmin> e.g. Fedora's ISOs can be booted that way, Ubuntu's can't
Oct 04 12:45:28 <jacktheripper> I remember that :/
Oct 04 12:45:40 <mgedmin> so, if you've got an ISO image that can be booted directly, I suppose it should be possible to have a n900 map its USB mass storage device blocks directly to a file
Oct 04 12:45:45 <mgedmin> I wonder how that's done ...
Oct 04 12:46:09 <mgedmin> if the kernel needs a block device to export, you could always create a temporary loopback
Oct 04 12:46:22 <jaska> change the usb module to claim its an usb cd/dvd drive?:)
Oct 04 12:46:33 <jacktheripper> and it'd be even better to fool a computer into thinking it's a usb optical drive
Oct 04 12:46:34 <jacktheripper> yes!
Oct 04 12:46:40 <jacktheripper> but to complicated
Oct 04 12:46:42 <jacktheripper> *too
Oct 04 12:47:15 <mgedmin> should be a fun project if you have a couple of months free time
Oct 04 12:47:53 <jacktheripper> I tried changing the dev file in the shell scripts that are responsible for USB Mass Storage. It fails, saying device in use.
Oct 04 12:48:04 <jaska> or do something like what qemu does with vfat hd emulation to export a directory as a vfat hd
Oct 04 12:48:13 <jacktheripper> I'd say it fails during mounting a loopback with vfat options.
Oct 04 12:53:43 <mgedmin> jaska, ooooh
Oct 04 12:53:59 <mgedmin> but that still wouldn't let two OSes use the same directory at the same time
Oct 04 12:54:01 <Khertan_> crashanddie: lol no apt didn't find package kroll
Oct 04 12:54:10 <Khertan_> ovi store is a major failure !
Oct 04 12:54:45 <jaska> mgedmin, sortof.. perhaps if the vfat device pretends its removable so the "other" device using it doesnt write cache
Oct 04 12:55:11 <jaska> not sure how windows etc. react to a filesystem they think is a block device changes underneath them :)
Oct 04 12:56:35 * jaska shivers at the thought of doing the vfat emulator in kernelspace
Oct 04 12:56:58 <jacktheripper> bah I'll just use unetbootin with an ubuntu image on MyDocs, I have explored the sources for too long.
Oct 04 12:57:29 <jaska> i guess bioses cant boot from usb-cdc network device yet?:)
Oct 04 12:57:45 <mgedmin> is that the one that extracts the contents of the live CD all over your VFAT?
Oct 04 12:58:02 <mgedmin> that sort of clutter is why I started figuring out how to convince grub to chain-boot an ISO image
Oct 04 12:58:03 <MohammadAG51> using squashfs?
Oct 04 12:58:29 <jaska> hmm... booting from a n900 over usb networking would be interesting
Oct 04 12:58:41 <MohammadAG51> just use vfat
Oct 04 12:58:55 <MohammadAG51> it's not really interesting :P
Oct 04 12:59:18 <jaska> well, for certain values of interesting
Oct 04 12:59:30 <jaska> i doubt any bios supports it
Oct 04 12:59:34 <jacktheripper> is the MMC's lifetime only decreased by writes ?
Oct 04 13:00:45 <hrw> who remember my 2009.51 system-updates repository?
Oct 04 13:00:55 <Arkenoi> what is recommended os for 770 now? i found 2007he to be best fit two years ago (2008 was unstable due to lack of resources), did anything change since then?
Oct 04 13:01:06 <hrw> Arkenoi: I would say os2006
Oct 04 13:01:49 <hrw> never liked 2007he on 770 - it was hard to fit it in 64MB ram
Oct 04 13:01:58 <hrw> Setting up mp-fremantle-generic-pr (10.2010.19-1.hrw1) ...
Oct 04 13:02:08 <hrw> now I can produce updates ;D
Oct 04 13:02:17 <RST38h> You too, Brutus? =)
Oct 04 13:02:18 <Arkenoi> hrw: 2007he appears reasonably stable for me
Oct 04 13:02:35 <hrw> Arkenoi: without swap?
Oct 04 13:02:47 <Arkenoi> with some swap on mmc
Oct 04 13:02:51 <MohammadAG51> i want 2009HE
Oct 04 13:03:01 <RST38h> 2011HE
Oct 04 13:03:07 <hrw> Arkenoi: I still have only that 64MB rs-mmc which was added
Oct 04 13:03:18 <hrw> MeeGo 2.0 '770' edition
Oct 04 13:21:11 <_trine> has anyone any idea why my petrovich wont open the folder when I start it,, it appears to attempt to start then just falls back to the n900 desktop and does nothing
Oct 04 13:21:43 <crashanddie> play with it, stroke it, feed it.
Oct 04 13:22:09 <RST38h> <yawn>
Oct 04 13:23:01 <MohammadAG51> <spawn>
Oct 04 13:23:06 <pupnik> what's the simple, transparent way to send audio from laptop to stereo system?
Oct 04 13:23:18 <crashanddie> pupnik, a cable
Oct 04 13:23:27 <MohammadAG51> a transparent one
Oct 04 13:23:29 <xkr47> :D
Oct 04 13:23:31 <pupnik> that's what i'm using now.  i like the latency
Oct 04 13:23:50 <crashanddie> latency should be near nill
Oct 04 13:23:52 <xkr47> earlyency
Oct 04 13:24:04 <crashanddie> unless your soundcard was built in the 60s
Oct 04 13:24:24 <MohammadAG51> what's the best way to route mic audio to speakers
Oct 04 13:24:28 <Termana> crashanddie has plenty of those, that's how he knows
Oct 04 13:24:36 <MohammadAG51> other than calling echo123 using skype
Oct 04 13:24:38 <Termana> :p
Oct 04 13:24:49 <xkr47> MohammadAG51, sox I guess
Oct 04 13:24:52 <MohammadAG51> sox?
Oct 04 13:25:00 <MohammadAG51> i thought those were for xmas
Oct 04 13:25:18 <pupnik> if you had a 770 hooked to stereo aux-in, how would you route laptop audio to it?
Oct 04 13:25:19 <xkr47> sox is season-agnostic
Oct 04 13:25:32 <Termana> MohammadAG51, I have a much better solution than xkr47
Oct 04 13:25:40 <Termana> xkr47 solution is wimpy
Oct 04 13:25:41 <MohammadAG51> Termana, oh boy
Oct 04 13:25:47 <Termana> Here's what you need to do
Oct 04 13:25:49 * MohammadAG51 expects trolling
Oct 04 13:26:05 * xkr47 pulls sox on his head and hides
Oct 04 13:26:30 <Termana> Get 2 N900s
Oct 04 13:26:45 <Termana> Then you need to call one of those N900s
Oct 04 13:26:48 <MohammadAG51> sometimes... i wish i had +o
Oct 04 13:26:51 <Termana> from the other one
Oct 04 13:27:09 * MohammadAG51 kicks Termana in the nuts
Oct 04 13:27:12 <Termana> plug a double ended cable from the speaker hole on one of them into your microphone jack
Oct 04 13:27:25 <MohammadAG51> there isn't a mic jack
Oct 04 13:27:34 <crashanddie> sure there is
Oct 04 13:27:34 <MohammadAG51> any
Oct 04 13:27:35 <Termana> Fine, just put it on speaker
Oct 04 13:27:50 <Termana> So your microphone picks the sound up
Oct 04 13:28:02 * MohammadAG51 takes a flamethrower a shoves it in Termana's bum
Oct 04 13:28:15 * MohammadAG51 opens fire
Oct 04 13:28:26 <Termana> MohammadAG51, anyway, aren't you suppose to be dead?
Oct 04 13:28:32 <Termana> Someone on t.m.o said you were dead
Oct 04 13:28:34 <Termana> ;P
Oct 04 13:28:38 <MohammadAG51> yeah, seen it
Oct 04 13:28:42 <crashanddie> lolwut?
Oct 04 13:28:45 <MohammadAG51> i'm a zombie process
Oct 04 13:29:03 <xkr47> t.m.o = trackmania original
Oct 04 13:29:19 <xkr47> also, MohammadAG51 do you play team fortress 2 ? ;)
Oct 04 13:29:23 <MohammadAG51> or too much orgy, oops
Oct 04 13:29:33 <MohammadAG51> xkr47, nope, it looks childish :P
Oct 04 13:29:34 <crashanddie> btw, MohammadAG51 any new replies on the faux-kernel-driver-hacker thread?
Oct 04 13:29:47 <MohammadAG51> not that i've noticed
Oct 04 13:30:28 <MohammadAG51> xkr47, cod on the other hand...
Oct 04 13:31:18 <xkr47> what are your favourite sites for browsing maemo5 apps ?
Oct 04 13:31:33 <MohammadAG51> maemo.org
Oct 04 13:31:49 <SpeedEvil> 4chan
Oct 04 13:31:52 <crashanddie> xkr47, IRC
Oct 04 13:31:55 <Termana> Maemo 5 apps?
Oct 04 13:31:59 <Termana> I didn't know there was any
Oct 04 13:32:04 <Termana> YEEEAAHHHH...
Oct 04 13:32:05 <Scelt> xkr47: http://nokian900applications.com
Oct 04 13:32:05 <crashanddie> there were
Oct 04 13:32:16 <Termana> crashanddie, until the repos stopped working at least
Oct 04 13:32:17 <Termana> ;P
Oct 04 13:32:18 <xkr47> 16:30:54 Ignoring ALL from Termana
Oct 04 13:32:27 <crashanddie> Termana, "there were any"
Oct 04 13:32:39 <MohammadAG51> crashanddie, i can haz op?
Oct 04 13:32:44 <xkr47> Scelt, thx
Oct 04 13:32:51 <Termana> crashanddie, thanks, at least I know I always have you to correct my sentences
Oct 04 13:32:57 <Termana> Here we go
Oct 04 13:33:07 * Termana gets ready to feel the pain of the kickhammer
Oct 04 13:33:20 <MohammadAG51> /kick crashanddie backstab!
Oct 04 13:33:34 <xkr47> bet someone could make a censored cartoon of this event
Oct 04 13:33:35 * Khertan_ have finally found a work around to download kroll from this bugged ovistore
Oct 04 13:33:43 <Termana> That has satisfied your needs for the day I suppose MohammadAG51? ;p
Oct 04 13:34:07 <Vertig0> Is Ovistore accessable in MeeGo at this point?
Oct 04 13:34:08 <MohammadAG51> Termana, nah, a month or 4 i'd say
Oct 04 13:34:33 <MohammadAG51> i wonder what crashanddie would've done if i kicked him
Oct 04 13:34:42 <Khertan_> Vertig0: yep if the browser works but it ll be useless :)
Oct 04 13:35:01 <crashanddie> add a "veto MohammadAG51 becoming an op process" to my todo list.
Oct 04 13:35:02 <Vertig0> Ok :)
Oct 04 13:35:09 <RST38h> MohammadAG: Badmouth you, threaten your health, then ban you?
Oct 04 13:35:11 <MohammadAG51> veto?
Oct 04 13:35:28 <_trine> no matter what I seem to try petrovich refuses to do anything ,, any ideas anyone?
Oct 04 13:35:34 <MohammadAG51> he wouldn't ban me, he'd lose his op if he did :P
Oct 04 13:35:44 <crashanddie> eh?
Oct 04 13:35:50 <Stskeeps> MohammadAG51: x-fade's on vacation
Oct 04 13:35:51 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 04 13:35:53 <crashanddie> I would lose a pain in the but
Oct 04 13:35:55 <Termana> RST38h, I was thinking more like secure him, being a security expert and all
Oct 04 13:35:56 <Termana> ;P
Oct 04 13:36:09 <MohammadAG51> why use petrovich when you can use the file manager
Oct 04 13:36:11 <MohammadAG51> Stskeeps, err, f*ck
Oct 04 13:36:26 * MohammadAG51 runs
Oct 04 13:36:50 <MohammadAG51> crashanddie, i'd expect someone like you to know the difference between buts and butts
Oct 04 13:37:11 <crashanddie> crap
Oct 04 13:37:15 <crashanddie> now I wrote butt to my manager
Oct 04 13:37:31 <MohammadAG51> lies!
Oct 04 13:37:32 <MohammadAG51> :P
Oct 04 13:37:32 <_trine> MohammadAG51, well it was working and now it isnt ,, it may be something to do with the large amount of files I copied to the phone last night ,, perhaps I have a file stsem problem
Oct 04 13:37:38 <crashanddie> It's a good thing he doesn't understand english...
Oct 04 13:37:50 <Termana> crashanddie, At least you told him the truth - "I like big butts and I cannot lie!"
Oct 04 13:37:58 <MohammadAG51> butt = mouth
Oct 04 13:38:02 <crashanddie> I don't actually
Oct 04 13:38:10 <MohammadAG51> then ask him to invite his wife for dinner
Oct 04 13:38:34 <MohammadAG51> I got big booty bitches, big booty bitches
Oct 04 13:38:38 <MohammadAG51> damn that song's epic
Oct 04 13:38:47 <crashanddie> mate, this may be France, but I don't think inviting someone else's wife out for dinner is considered a nice thing to do between colleagues...
Oct 04 13:39:09 <MohammadAG51> crashanddie, I didn't say you'd have to be with them
Oct 04 13:39:30 <MohammadAG51> just tell him that butt = mouth, he'll do the rest of the fun stuff xD
Oct 04 13:40:21 <crashanddie> You do realise I have to pay the bills and stuff
Oct 04 13:40:50 <MohammadAG51> lol
Oct 04 13:40:52 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51, I'm not living the student life anymore, where electricity is included in the rent
Oct 04 13:41:10 <MohammadAG51> electricity isn't included in rent here :P
Oct 04 13:41:52 <crashanddie> so you pay electricity at home?
Oct 04 13:42:18 <MohammadAG51> i was referring to student life :P
Oct 04 13:42:27 <MohammadAG51> though i'm not living in a rent house
Oct 04 13:44:39 <_trine> how can I check the integrity of Mydocs folder
Oct 04 13:45:15 <MohammadAG51> umount /home/user/MyDocs
Oct 04 13:45:23 <lcuk> leave a file containing $5000 on the root and see if Mydocs folder steals it
Oct 04 13:45:33 <MohammadAG51> fsck.vfat -a /dev/mmcblk0p1
Oct 04 13:45:40 <MohammadAG51> lol lcuk
Oct 04 13:47:46 <Termana> lol
Oct 04 13:52:48 <_trine> still no luck I have checked the FS reinstalled petrovich and rebooted but still it does not open the files and start
Oct 04 13:53:20 <_trine> I cant think of anything else to check
Oct 04 13:54:10 <_trine> Is it possible to reinstall the blue tooth drives on the n900
Oct 04 13:54:22 <_trine> drivers*
Oct 04 13:56:17 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51, You utter PILLOCK
Oct 04 13:56:37 * MohammadAG51 opens up google translate
Oct 04 13:56:40 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51, you bloody trigger happy clot
Oct 04 13:56:53 <Khertan_> someone know what it s the timezone of maemo.org/packages QA Quarantine ends: ENDED 2010-10-04 13:45
Oct 04 13:57:17 <crashanddie> wrong ubtton
Oct 04 13:57:32 <Khertan_> :)
Oct 04 13:57:33 <MohammadAG51> hmm, shit
Oct 04 13:57:54 <_trine> crashanddie, if you are not going to behave yourself you should be kicked
Oct 04 13:57:54 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51, you fecking idiot, you couldn't even open up the .rar file to see if it even included the injection driver?
Oct 04 13:58:14 <crashanddie> _trine, oh right, sorry
Oct 04 13:58:18 <crashanddie> </sarcasm>
Oct 04 13:58:19 <MohammadAG51> Noun for Idiot, fool. Originally a slang term for the penis but fairly inoffensive now its this meaning has been forgotten. Derog. ref British Slang Dictionary
Oct 04 13:58:38 <MohammadAG51> that's a new word
Oct 04 13:58:58 <MohammadAG51> crashanddie, the rar has an install file that points to a repo
Oct 04 13:59:30 <MohammadAG51> which doesn't have any source, i don't care about injection drivers, he's breaking the gpl unless he upps a source
Oct 04 14:00:17 <crashanddie> hmm
Oct 04 14:01:53 <Termana> I think I'm going to call the Cyber Police
Oct 04 14:02:05 <crashanddie> MohammadAG51, I have his phone number :D
Oct 04 14:02:17 <crashanddie> and address
Oct 04 14:02:26 <MohammadAG51> mine is in the maemo irc logs, somewhere
Oct 04 14:03:00 <RST38h> maemos.ru claims PR1.3 coming in October
Oct 04 14:03:10 <MohammadAG51> it is
Oct 04 14:03:16 <MohammadAG51> October 2010
Oct 04 14:03:24 <GAN900> RST38h, it is or it's never coming.
Oct 04 14:03:31 <MohammadAG51> but
Oct 04 14:03:39 <RST38h> GAN: Why?
Oct 04 14:03:48 <MohammadAG51> can someone at nokia please a trolololo boot screen?
Oct 04 14:03:50 <RST38h> Are they closing down all Maemo development in October?
Oct 04 14:04:05 <RST38h> Mohammad: Better make a trololo tmo skin
Oct 04 14:04:23 <MohammadAG51> or a "We Are Maemo, and we pronouce it like this, THE END"
Oct 04 14:04:30 <MohammadAG51> fail
Oct 04 14:04:38 <MohammadAG51> "We Are Maemo, and we pronouce PR1.3 like this, THE END"
Oct 04 14:05:36 <pupnik> they need that happy 60's orchestra sound for meego ads
Oct 04 14:05:41 <Termana> maemo.org should go down on the 1st of April with a page that says "Shutdown forever" and then redirect in 5 seconds to a trololololo video
Oct 04 14:06:26 <crashanddie> Termana, or rather... an ironic "Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..."
Oct 04 14:06:38 <Termana> lol :p
Oct 04 14:10:36 <sivang> what's theat Trololololo video?
Oct 04 14:10:49 <Termana> sivang, I am disappoint
Oct 04 14:11:01 <sivang> Termana: I apologize, been having a bad day
Oct 04 14:12:20 <Termana> sivang, my favourite version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY - the sing along! But I am disappointed because you have missed out on the whole internet meme
Oct 04 14:14:28 <RST38h> Hmm, N8 seems to be having problems focusing
Oct 04 14:14:31 <Termana> sivang, also, don't apologise, I was kidding ;P - I just don't have a life :P
Oct 04 14:14:44 <Termana> RST38h, it already had a problem before that
Oct 04 14:14:58 <RST38h> *Or* Eldar Murtazin is shaking every time he holds this piece-of-shit-nokia-product in his puffy hands
Oct 04 14:15:19 <Stskeeps> RST38h: he's wanking at the same time
Oct 04 14:15:27 <Termana> Stskeeps, lol
Oct 04 14:15:43 <RST38h> Stskeeps: I am almost inclined to believe it
Oct 04 14:15:43 <pupnik> i'm not sure eldar is qualified to review a camera at all
Oct 04 14:16:00 <RST38h> pupnik: Well, he made photos and put them up for comparison
Oct 04 14:16:02 <MohammadAG51> Stskeeps, I believe the word wanking doesn't nelong here, take it to the fapman thread
Oct 04 14:16:08 <Termana> pupnik, I'm not sure Eldar is qualified to review anything
Oct 04 14:16:21 <Stskeeps> MohammadAG51: not helping
Oct 04 14:16:22 <RST38h> pupnik: His commentary is kinda worthless, but the samples are of some interest of course
Oct 04 14:16:23 <sivang> Termana: Not that I do :)  I occasionally do miss the whole internet meme - Not sure how I manage to do that, but after being told about something I go and read about it and use it after everybody else already forgot about it and then considered old-school :-p </teens-of-the-eighties>
Oct 04 14:16:25 <MohammadAG51> eldar is only qualified to bitch about thigs
Oct 04 14:16:41 <MohammadAG51> i remember he said the N97 was awesome, it was shit
Oct 04 14:16:49 <MohammadAG51> N900 was shit, it was awesome
Oct 04 14:16:58 <pupnik> my first high tech portable was a casette walkman
Oct 04 14:17:32 <MohammadAG51> mine was an atari :p
Oct 04 14:17:37 <RST38h> Anyways, samples here: http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-n8-camera.shtml
Oct 04 14:17:49 <sivang> mine was a spectra video and an atari
Oct 04 14:17:56 <RST38h> iPhone 4 is postprocessing like crazy, BTW
Oct 04 14:18:00 <sivang> atari for playing games, spectra video for BASIC programming
Oct 04 14:18:07 <pupnik> yes it is
Oct 04 14:18:08 <MohammadAG51> RST38h, indeed
Oct 04 14:18:19 <RST38h> The MSX-comparible SVI or their own design?
Oct 04 14:18:21 <MohammadAG51> i've tried one, the effects are irreversible
Oct 04 14:18:30 <pupnik> RST38h: the n8 is almost unique in the amount of dynamic range it preserves in photos - i don't know another phone that comes close
Oct 04 14:18:37 <sivang> Termana: they guy in the video is Frankenstein?
Oct 04 14:18:50 <RST38h> pupnik: I have not found anything unique in the samepls I have seen
Oct 04 14:19:04 <Termana> sivang, no, what made you say that? :p
Oct 04 14:19:12 <RST38h> pupnik: It isn't bad though, for a phone. Apparently has problem focusing.
Oct 04 14:19:26 <pupnik> look for blown highlights and loss of shadow detail in competitors RST38h
Oct 04 14:19:30 <sivang> Termana: he's horrific
Oct 04 14:19:37 <sivang> RST38h: you bought one?
Oct 04 14:19:54 <crashanddie> fuck me, the n8 makes horrible low-light pictures
Oct 04 14:19:56 <Termana> sivang, watch out his last name is Khil. He'll Khill you
Oct 04 14:19:59 <sivang> RST38h: these some niftly looking photos
Oct 04 14:20:06 <RST38h> pupnik: Probably has other typical problems (low optical resolution, going pinkish in cloudy weather, going grayish in low light, etc)
Oct 04 14:20:06 <sivang> HEHE
Oct 04 14:20:07 <Termana> Khil*
Oct 04 14:20:18 <jaska> khil phil
Oct 04 14:20:25 <RST38h> sivang: me? no.
Oct 04 14:20:26 <pupnik> RST38h: i don't think the n8 focuses at all
Oct 04 14:20:34 <RST38h> pupnik: That would be weird
Oct 04 14:20:43 <MohammadAG51> pupnik, it does focus
Oct 04 14:20:46 <sivang> RST38h: you wrote this russian article?
Oct 04 14:20:55 <RST38h> sivang: No.
Oct 04 14:20:56 <crashanddie> pupnik & RST38h: I'm thinking Eldar has parkinson's, he shakes all over the place
Oct 04 14:20:57 <pupnik> oh i'm wrong
Oct 04 14:21:01 <MohammadAG51> OMG RST38h IS ELDAR
Oct 04 14:21:03 <pupnik> it's the e7 with fixed focus
Oct 04 14:21:05 <sivang> that's eldar?
Oct 04 14:21:07 <sivang> who's eldar?
Oct 04 14:21:11 * RST38h sighs
Oct 04 14:21:16 * sivang misses yet another interenet meme
Oct 04 14:21:18 <MohammadAG51> eldarmurtazin
Oct 04 14:21:22 <pupnik> http://nokiafanboy.com/2010/09/17/nokia-n8-vs-nokia-e7-the-comparisson-on-two-symbian3-monster/
Oct 04 14:21:22 <RST38h> sivang: Google, for Tentacled's sake...
Oct 04 14:21:23 * sivang googes
Oct 04 14:21:27 <MohammadAG51> a guy who gets all nokias early
Oct 04 14:21:38 <MohammadAG51> and makes them look like shit
Oct 04 14:21:44 <MohammadAG51> just for the heck of it
Oct 04 14:21:50 <MohammadAG51> i wonder if he has a job
Oct 04 14:22:08 <RST38h> pupnik: I would not believe anything at nokiafanboy.com :)
Oct 04 14:22:12 <_trine> has no one any idea about how i can get petrovich working again on my n900
Oct 04 14:22:36 <MohammadAG51> use filebox
Oct 04 14:22:45 <RST38h> pupnik: nor would I, of course, believe mobile-review, for obvious reasons
Oct 04 14:23:03 * MohammadAG51 wouldn't believe Apple.com
Oct 04 14:23:31 <pupnik> you can believe the published specs of a released phone.  stfu
Oct 04 14:23:45 <RST38h> pupnik: Wouldn't believe even that
Oct 04 14:23:57 <RST38h> pupnik: They usually omit important stuff ;)
Oct 04 14:24:02 <crashanddie> crap, again.
Oct 04 14:24:28 <RST38h> pupnik: Like N900 optics having worse resolution than its sensor
Oct 04 14:24:37 <sivang> what's the deal with the video?
Oct 04 14:24:44 <sivang> why is it an interenet meme?
Oct 04 14:25:27 <pupnik> good point RST38h
Oct 04 14:26:02 <crashanddie> RST38h, that's actually quite common
Oct 04 14:26:05 <lcuk> RST38h, huh? optics being analog lens
Oct 04 14:26:22 <lcuk> that has no concept of resolution or pixels?
Oct 04 14:26:28 <crashanddie> lcuk, sure they do
Oct 04 14:26:30 <RST38h> lcuk: oh you can make a lens in many different ways ;)
Oct 04 14:26:45 <RST38h> lcuk: But for the purpose of experiment, do this:
Oct 04 14:27:09 <pupnik> i forgot how the lens limits resolution
Oct 04 14:27:16 <RST38h> lcuk: Walk outside, focus your N900 on some far-away building with a lot of detail (appartment blocks will do) and make a shot
Oct 04 14:27:31 <RST38h> lcuk: Choose the best available weather (have you still got sun there? :))
Oct 04 14:27:49 <RST38h> lcuk: Once you make the shot, zoom all the way in and see what the details of those buildings look like
Oct 04 14:28:01 <sivang> Termana: ^^
Oct 04 14:28:11 <RST38h> lcuk: I can almost bet you will not see any detail at all, just spots
Oct 04 14:28:15 <crashanddie> RST38h, not really an accurate description of MTF, but well...
Oct 04 14:28:32 <RST38h> crashanddie: Well, I am going for a practical test
Oct 04 14:28:36 <lcuk> RST38h, its digital zoom and camera sensors are noisy since they are small.  thats known anyway?
Oct 04 14:28:43 <lcuk> but not related to the lens optics
Oct 04 14:28:49 <crashanddie> RST38h, plus, that test can be buggered by weird ISO and poor processing on the N900's part.
Oct 04 14:28:51 <RST38h> lcuk: Do not use digital zoom. Use the best available weather.
Oct 04 14:28:54 <sivang> is there a video of Murtazin somewhere?
Oct 04 14:29:09 <RST38h> lcuk: So, no digizoom. No noise to speak about (hell, configure FCamera to use smallest ISO)
Oct 04 14:29:21 <RST38h> lcuk: You will STILL get garbage. Try it.
Oct 04 14:29:22 <pupnik> good camera lenses need more depth than people are willing to pocket in a cell phone
Oct 04 14:29:42 <Termana> sivang, http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/trololo-edward-hill-russian-rickroll - you may need to bookmark knowyourmeme ;) :p
Oct 04 14:29:44 <sivang> nokia published in the official blog that he has unlawufully obtained Nokia devices
Oct 04 14:29:57 <RST38h> lcuk: Please note that even our little family Casio (whose main selling feature was "makes Youtube videos") will pass this test quite nicely
Oct 04 14:30:02 <sivang> Termana: great! Now I will never miss a meme again
Oct 04 14:30:11 <lcuk> hubble takes amazing pixtures with its 1mpixel sensor
Oct 04 14:30:22 <_trine> MohammadAG51, I have just tried to install filebox and the n900 refused ,, it said some application packages required for the installation are missing
Oct 04 14:30:22 <lcuk> because it has pels about 4 metres each :D
Oct 04 14:30:47 <lcuk> RST38h, i dont know what I am looking for
Oct 04 14:31:01 <lcuk> join in with the crowds and post a blog
Oct 04 14:31:07 <lcuk> showing the issue
Oct 04 14:31:23 <RST38h> lcuk: You know what I think of blogs. I will get you an image of this though.
Oct 04 14:31:36 <crashanddie> lcuk, MTF describes how much of the subject brightness (which varies tremendously) is being sent through to the sensor. More info at: http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/knowhow/opt_quali_e.htm
Oct 04 14:31:40 <lcuk> and get one that doesnt show it from your other camera
Oct 04 14:31:41 <pupnik> i want to see a camera mfgr ballsy enough to do another side-oriented camera that can have a 2-3cm deep zoom optics
Oct 04 14:32:04 <lcuk> to be honest tho, i just use the camera and take happy shots
Oct 04 14:32:15 <sivang> Termana: very nice, I'll RSS
Oct 04 14:32:23 <lcuk> lots of photos and not noticed anything that makes me go "arghhh"
Oct 04 14:32:59 <crashanddie> lcuk, look at my latest tweet to Jussi
Oct 04 14:33:09 <sivang> Rickrolled!
Oct 04 14:33:15 <RST38h> lcuk: A lot of people are incapable of being permanently happy
Oct 04 14:33:31 <pupnik> Have any of you seen the n8 video?  How is it for tearing/wobblies?
Oct 04 14:33:35 <RST38h> lcuk: In fact, I would call permanent unconditional happiness a psychological deviation :)
Oct 04 14:33:47 <lcuk> RST38h, I didnt mean like that
Oct 04 14:33:48 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/20100921_020.jpg
Oct 04 14:33:50 <crashanddie> pupnik, just like most sensors, it sucks at fast panning
Oct 04 14:34:17 <lcuk> crashanddie, post link i cant find anything in my twitter stream
Oct 04 14:34:49 <pupnik> crashanddie: it's depressing how meaningless "720p" video is today, to describe video quality, with this range we have
Oct 04 14:35:11 <crashanddie> lcuk, yeah, and the fuzziness around everything 9bricks in the wall facing left, red noise in the grass all over, etc) makes that picture OK-ish in 30% reduction, and nearly unusable in 100% crop
Oct 04 14:35:26 <lcuk> huh?
Oct 04 14:35:33 <lcuk> nearly unusable?
Oct 04 14:35:51 <crashanddie> in 100% crop.
Oct 04 14:36:11 <crashanddie> (photo geek term for original size, showing every pixel)
Oct 04 14:36:26 <SpeedEvil> Original size? 1/5th of an inch?
Oct 04 14:36:58 <crashanddie> SpeedEvil, no, displaying every pixel for what it is, without reducing the total size of the image
Oct 04 14:37:06 <sivang> so nokiaqtsdk is stuck at 76%
Oct 04 14:37:10 <sivang> and not progressing further
Oct 04 14:37:13 <crashanddie> even if it means panning/scrolling.
Oct 04 14:37:14 <sivang> anybody an idea?
Oct 04 14:37:17 <RST38h> lcuk: Here it is: http://picasaweb.google.com/luarvique/Moscow#5483324943458865282
Oct 04 14:37:20 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - I've said that for a long time
Oct 04 14:37:26 <RST38h> lcuk: Zoom in, look at the skyline
Oct 04 14:37:32 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20100911_032.history.of.science.jpg
Oct 04 14:37:34 <lcuk> hmm
Oct 04 14:37:48 <sx0n> i am glad that i am just regular photographer
Oct 04 14:37:51 <RST38h> lcuk: Notice the perfect shooting conditions
Oct 04 14:38:24 * sivang gives up and fetches the offline version
Oct 04 14:38:53 <SpeedEvil> That's not quite right
Oct 04 14:38:58 <SpeedEvil> the whites are blown out
Oct 04 14:39:09 <SpeedEvil> If you corrected the exposure, it'd look a bit better
Oct 04 14:39:14 <lcuk> "blown out"?
Oct 04 14:39:15 <crashanddie> lcuk, notice how fuzzy the right-hand wall gets after about 2 meters from the camera? Even immediately to the right, the "white" is noisy. Everywhere you look, it's noisy
Oct 04 14:39:19 <lcuk> i think it looks pretty RST38h
Oct 04 14:39:34 <RST38h> Speed: I tried several different exposures
Oct 04 14:39:40 <RST38h> Speed: Same shit with the skyline
Oct 04 14:39:41 <lcuk> crashanddie, not really its going over a whole range of focus depths
Oct 04 14:39:45 <lcuk> so its expected?
Oct 04 14:39:51 <crashanddie> not at all
Oct 04 14:39:58 <crashanddie> you should expect bokeh, not noise.
Oct 04 14:40:15 <SpeedEvil> You do realise that focus depth with a 1.6mm lens loses all meaning over a couple of meters?
Oct 04 14:40:23 <RST38h> Speed: Yes
Oct 04 14:40:33 <lcuk> but i fail to see a problem with the images i have
Oct 04 14:40:41 <RST38h> Speed: But any other camera will still focus on "infinity" in this picture
Oct 04 14:40:43 <SpeedEvil> They are not bad, for a phone.
Oct 04 14:40:44 <lcuk> since they are 100x better than they used to be
Oct 04 14:40:49 <lcuk> now i learnt how to stop moving
Oct 04 14:40:55 <lcuk> as much as possible
Oct 04 14:41:08 <lcuk> tracy is great at taking photos
Oct 04 14:41:08 * MohammadAG51 needs training
Oct 04 14:41:10 <RST38h> lcuk: Taxidermy!
Oct 04 14:41:21 <MohammadAG51> the N86 shoots photos in less than half a second
Oct 04 14:41:28 <MohammadAG51> the N900 needs a second or two
Oct 04 14:41:59 <lcuk> depends
Oct 04 14:42:09 <sx0n> 4000*3000 takes some time to capture
Oct 04 14:42:15 <lcuk> prefocused and flash
Oct 04 14:42:25 <lcuk> take time too
Oct 04 14:42:47 <MohammadAG51> the N900 takes more time to capture the image, from half press to full press, the N86 beats it hands down
Oct 04 14:43:06 <MohammadAG51> the N86's flash is brighter
Oct 04 14:43:06 <lcuk> fair enough
Oct 04 14:43:19 <MohammadAG51> even though it's dual LED
Oct 04 14:43:36 <MohammadAG51> looking at the flash on the N86 isn't pleasant
Oct 04 14:43:58 <sx0n> i have managed to get some red eye pictures with n8, should there be some kind of dual flash etc to remove that?
Oct 04 14:44:53 <crashanddie> lcuk, http://www.flickr.com/photos/violin6918/5051285752/sizes/o/in/photostream/
Oct 04 14:45:46 <crashanddie> lcuk, notice the difference in fuzziness around the colour edges compared with a 100% crop of a n900 picture?
Oct 04 14:48:12 <lcuk> crashanddie, ? taken with a dslr?
Oct 04 14:48:22 <crashanddie> yeah, with a 5dmkii
Oct 04 14:48:24 * lcuk likes http://liqbase.net/liq.20100601_139.fire.dragon.jpg
Oct 04 14:48:31 <dneary> I'm right in thinking that the Maemo 5 messaging application is not free software, amn't I?
Oct 04 14:48:40 <dneary> Or is it just Empathy on speed?
Oct 04 14:48:43 <crashanddie> you am
Oct 04 14:48:55 <crashanddie> or you amn't, depends on how you look at it.
Oct 04 14:49:19 <pupnik> i thought the n900 camera was pretty awesome tbh, but then again i was coming from the n810
Oct 04 14:49:32 <sivang> I hink it is awesome indeed
Oct 04 14:49:47 <sivang> I saw iphone's produce and it's far inferior in my taste
Oct 04 14:50:06 <crashanddie> stop frigging comparing everything with the iphone, for f's sake.
Oct 04 14:50:10 <pupnik> :)
Oct 04 14:50:11 <sivang> true
Oct 04 14:50:30 <crashanddie> for a day-to-day, don't-give-a-crap-about-picture-quality-and-just-want-to-immortalize-a-day-out-with-the-family, the n900 is fine
Oct 04 14:50:35 <sivang> crashanddie: I was just thinking, "but quim said on the goals for meego that beating iphone cannot be a goal per se"
Oct 04 14:50:42 <pupnik> It has the best linux-phone camera, at least :)
Oct 04 14:50:51 <lcuk> dneary, i think its mostly closed.
Oct 04 14:51:00 <lcuk> pupnik, past tense? the n900 camera is still awesome
Oct 04 14:51:14 <sivang> lcuk++
Oct 04 14:51:18 <lcuk> and seriously outclasses the old family digital camera
Oct 04 14:51:32 <pupnik> then that camera sucked
Oct 04 14:51:46 <lcuk> especially now with us having 2 of them, we get sets of comparable photos
Oct 04 14:51:51 <lcuk> pupnik, possibly
Oct 04 14:52:01 <flux> fcamera is nice as well. is there a way to replace the builtin camera app with that?
Oct 04 14:52:04 <lcuk> but it was what we knew and used it
Oct 04 14:52:35 <lcuk> sivang, making something as XYZ beater never realistically gets you anywhere
Oct 04 14:52:38 <pupnik> anyway n900 camera is plenty good enough for me.  i wouldn't want to pay a lot more for a better one tbh
Oct 04 14:52:51 <lcuk> for years people were wanting to make a better walkman than sony
Oct 04 14:53:00 <dneary> lcuk, Thought so
Oct 04 14:53:09 <dneary> Just watched Sintel - pretty amazing
Oct 04 14:53:13 <lcuk> pupnik, the n8 camera is obviously good too
Oct 04 14:53:16 <dneary> Those guys get better with every film
Oct 04 14:53:23 <dneary> As you'd expect, I suppose...
Oct 04 14:53:45 <crashanddie> dneary, I was a bit disappointed by the Sintel scenario
Oct 04 14:53:51 <pupnik> yeah lcuk i got to see side by side n8 vs n900 pics.  the n900 doesn't do too bad, but n8 has the edge
Oct 04 14:53:54 <sivang> lcuk: true
Oct 04 14:54:02 <sivang> enough with all this beating!
Oct 04 14:54:07 <crashanddie> dneary, I mean, I understood the whole "oh crap, I've been doing this for 30 years" instant, but I really felt like crap that she killed her dragon.
Oct 04 14:54:24 <lcuk> sivang, bring out the bacon fat and make your own path
Oct 04 14:54:25 <dneary> crashanddie, That's the point
Oct 04 14:54:28 <sivang> so the sdk installer downloades stuff at 1M per 2 seconds from a92-122-135-154.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com
Oct 04 14:54:41 <kerio>  BACON!111111111111
Oct 04 14:54:48 <pupnik> i really liked n8's auto-white balance too. plus combined with that black screen.. it's just so fun .. argh.
Oct 04 14:54:54 <dneary> crashanddie, But then the continuity of the baby dragon following her (after she'd just killed their daddy, no less) was nice
Oct 04 14:55:07 <lcuk> btw, this http://liqbase.net/liq.20100601_139.fire.dragon.jpg fire dragon only made flames for ~0.5second
Oct 04 14:55:07 * sivang thinks to open a bug report to qt people about adding special progress for the MADDE download
Oct 04 14:55:18 <lcuk> me and tracy were stood there with cameras poised waiting to catch it
Oct 04 14:55:20 <crashanddie> dneary, if I want to feel like shit, I'll watch Requiem for a Dream, I want shortfilms to make me think, or laugh...
Oct 04 14:55:25 <sivang> since it is much larger and takes much more time
Oct 04 14:55:26 <dneary> crashanddie, But then, maybe we shouldn't be spoiling the plot for everyone who hasn't seen it, no?
Oct 04 14:55:42 <crashanddie> dneary, they had it coming if they didn't watch it yet.
Oct 04 14:55:46 <dneary> crashanddie, /me never seen req for dream
Oct 04 14:56:00 <dneary> crashanddie, I only just watched it for the first time today
Oct 04 14:56:12 <dneary> crashanddie, At a conference all last week when it came out
Oct 04 14:56:45 <crashanddie> I'm playing the world's smallest violin, just for you :)
Oct 04 14:56:56 <crashanddie> :P
Oct 04 14:58:19 <crashanddie> sx0n, red eye is really not something you can remove accurately, no matter the camera
Oct 04 14:58:31 <lindi-> W#gnu
Oct 04 14:58:35 <lindi-> whoops :)
Oct 04 14:58:46 <RST38h> crashanddie: actually, just remove bright red :)
Oct 04 14:59:01 <crashanddie> how is that helping anything?
Oct 04 14:59:06 <crashanddie> What if you're taking a photo of santa?
Oct 04 14:59:13 <crashanddie> HE'LL BE GREY!!!
Oct 04 14:59:42 <crashanddie> case $loc: s/GREY/GRAY/;
Oct 04 15:00:11 <dneary> crashanddie, Sure you can - accurate selection tools & apply curves or levels to the red channel
Oct 04 15:00:19 <dneary> It'll be perfectly acceptably realistic
Oct 04 15:00:31 <crashanddie> dneary, that's post processing :)
Oct 04 15:00:40 <dneary> Need to be careful not to put a cyan tint on the whites of the eyes...
Oct 04 15:01:00 <crashanddie> anyone able to call international for free?
Oct 04 15:01:07 <dneary> crashanddie, Sure
Oct 04 15:01:23 <crashanddie> dneary, call: +34 620 379 905, and tell him that he's a dick for violating GPL :P
Oct 04 15:01:29 <dneary> no
Oct 04 15:03:30 <Termana> crashanddie, have you done so?
Oct 04 15:03:40 <crashanddie> he's not answering
Oct 04 15:03:51 <Termana> He knows
Oct 04 15:04:01 <Termana> He must be watching us
Oct 04 15:04:33 <Termana> And in that case I have one thing to say:
Oct 04 15:04:35 <Termana> Fuck you
Oct 04 15:05:05 <GAN900> Nutjobs
Oct 04 15:05:11 <crashanddie> Termana, I had a couple of people ask me to ban you because of your rude behaviour.
Oct 04 15:05:48 <Termana> crashanddie, heh, really? Couple of people being MohammadAG51? :p
Oct 04 15:05:52 <GAN900> Ban ban ban!
Oct 04 15:05:59 <Termana> Hit me with your best shot!
Oct 04 15:06:06 <crashanddie> I simply replied saying they were fucking idiots.
Oct 04 15:06:09 <Stskeeps> and people have been pissed about your behaviour too, crashanddie - so how about we all just fight in person after getting hammered on tequila?
Oct 04 15:06:15 <Termana> :p
Oct 04 15:06:32 <crashanddie> who the hell did I piss off lately?
Oct 04 15:06:43 <crashanddie> I've been seriously nice and making efforts and all for the past few months
Oct 04 15:06:50 <Stskeeps> note on 'have'
Oct 04 15:07:20 <crashanddie> well, yeah, but what can I say, I was under a lot of stress?
Oct 04 15:07:27 <crashanddie> I promise honey, it'll be different now?
Oct 04 15:07:43 <Milhouse> I've just been banned from engadget :) Pointed out a sight that highlighted how biased they were in their N8 vs iPhone4 camera comparison - wasn't at all sweary, just posted a link to the debunking web site and suggested they might want to post a retraction - instead they wiped my post and banned me. Unbelievable! :)
Oct 04 15:07:43 <Stskeeps> don't call me honey, you know it makes me blush
Oct 04 15:07:48 <Termana> :P
Oct 04 15:07:56 <Milhouse> sight => site
Oct 04 15:08:21 <Milhouse> Blog Nazis... gits.
Oct 04 15:08:29 <sivang> Stskeeps: lol
Oct 04 15:08:30 <crashanddie> Milhouse, not necessarily :)
Oct 04 15:08:53 <Stskeeps> Milhouse: so there's worse places than tmo ;)
Oct 04 15:09:02 <Milhouse> crashanddie: Not nazis, gits or they didn't wipe my post and ban me?
Oct 04 15:09:16 <Milhouse> Stskeeps: Oh yes, much worse! :)
Oct 04 15:09:19 <crashanddie> Milhouse, sight/site
Oct 04 15:09:34 <GAN900> Milhouse, links are spam.
Oct 04 15:09:38 <Milhouse> crashannie: aha...
Oct 04 15:09:41 <GAN900> Milhouse, spammer.
Oct 04 15:09:52 <Milhouse> GAN900: Not all, only those that show engadget to be a bunch of biased hacks
Oct 04 15:10:07 <GAN900> Either way, your first mistake was posting on Engadget. *g*
Oct 04 15:10:14 <Milhouse> GAN900: Clearly... will have to register with a new account now! :)
Oct 04 15:10:26 <GAN900> It's link when a friend of mine got baited into arguing on YouTube.
Oct 04 15:10:30 <Milhouse> GAN900: Some of the anti-Nokia, anti-MeeGo shite they post is incredible
Oct 04 15:10:50 <GAN900> Much like newspapers, it's all editorial.
Oct 04 15:11:20 <Milhouse> GAN900: I wonder how much financial harm some of the non-journalists cause, considerable when their posts go unchallenged and treated as fact
Oct 04 15:12:02 <GAN900> A bit, I'd say
Oct 04 15:12:13 <GAN900> But what can you do?
Oct 04 15:12:27 <crashanddie> Milhouse, to quote the title of a song by Skunk Anansie: "Yes It's fucking Political"
Oct 04 15:12:52 <Milhouse> Nokia do seem to be a magnet for bad press whether it's justified or not - it seems to be a popular sport these days. That Russian buffoon is leading the charge as usual.
Oct 04 15:16:46 <GAN900> Nokia hasn't done itself many favors.
Oct 04 15:16:52 <crashanddie> Every company is a magnet for bad press
Oct 04 15:17:01 <crashanddie> It really just depends of the websites you look at
Oct 04 15:18:11 <nidO> the bias on "popular" sites against nokia is just incredible though
Oct 04 15:18:38 <nidO> I couldnt help but laugh all the way through the iphone vs blackberry vs n8 usability test on gizmodo the other day
Oct 04 15:20:27 <kerio> nidO: link pls
Oct 04 15:20:39 <nidO> http://gizmodo.com/5653621/gizmodo-hq-video-throwdown-how-usable-is-nokias-new-n8
Oct 04 15:20:52 <Milhouse> I prefer to avoid sites that are pro-Nokia in an attempt to get a more unbiased opinion, but most of the "popular" tech web sites seem to pleasure in taking pot shots at Nokia, as if it's some kind of new sport.
Oct 04 15:21:10 <Milhouse> nid0: that was shocking
Oct 04 15:21:10 <nidO> its like... fast typer with months of using an iphone, vs fast typer with months of using a blackberry, vs arthritic cripple with 20 seconds of looking at an n8
Oct 04 15:21:19 <nidO> "zomg n8 sux!"
Oct 04 15:21:56 <Milhouse> nid0: here's a video "reply" to Gizmodo: http://mynokiablog.com/2010/10/03/video-answer-to-gizmodos-usability-test-of-the-nokia-n8/
Oct 04 15:22:46 <nidO> yar i saw it, says a lot
Oct 04 15:24:40 <Milhouse> What *is* interesting about these engadget and Gizmodo hatchet jobs, is that an awful lot of people are seeing through it and in many cases bigging up the N8, which is heatening - Nokia really do need it to succeed.
Oct 04 15:24:56 * DocScrutinizer2 moos at GAN900 and shows crashanddie how to properly remove a red eye. Using small spoon helps a lot
Oct 04 15:27:02 <_trine> DocScrutinizer2, would you have any idea why petrovich on my N900 has stopped working
Oct 04 15:27:32 <_trine> it no longer opens the folder as it once did
Oct 04 15:28:10 <_trine> I see others on the net have had the same problem but there does not appear to be a solution I can find
Oct 04 15:28:29 <DocScrutinizer> _trine: not really, but I as well had lots of issues with petrovich, and cuteexplorer (or somesuch) comes with BT file sending as one of many useful options
Oct 04 15:28:42 <nidO> has petrovich even been updated to work with 1.2? it's been kinda pointless since then
Oct 04 15:29:22 <_trine> it used to work ok until yesterday and its still working on my wifes N900
Oct 04 15:29:34 <_trine> and both phones are on 1.2
Oct 04 15:29:54 <DocScrutinizer> nevermind petrovich, use cute explorer
Oct 04 15:30:23 <_trine> can cute explorer send vis BT
Oct 04 15:30:49 <nidO> you can send files via bt using the built-in file manager
Oct 04 15:31:40 <_trine> nidO, whats the builtin file manager called
Oct 04 15:31:55 <nidO> well in your app list, "File manager".
Oct 04 15:31:59 <DocScrutinizer> yes, even HFM can 'publish' 'over BT'
Oct 04 15:32:53 <_trine> petrovich was so easy to use
Oct 04 15:33:35 <DocScrutinizer> but CuteExplorer can access *whole* filesystem, not only the crippled version holding 2 folders "MyDocs" and "media/mmc1" that Nokia thinks are sufficient for users to have access to them
Oct 04 15:34:19 <nidO> well, nokia are right. enthusiast device or not, giving whole filesystem access via a ui file manager out of the box is asking for problems
Oct 04 15:34:40 <nidO> ofc, an option to enable access to the rest of the fs woulda been nice to have.
Oct 04 15:34:54 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, hiding 2/3 of the fs is asking just for different problems
Oct 04 15:35:22 <nidO> yes, but those problems are "bah, i have to use shell / install another filemanager" rather than "waaa i borked my phone".
Oct 04 15:35:31 <nidO> I can easily imagine which nokia prefers.
Oct 04 15:35:52 <jd> having full access to the fs through alternative file managers and shell is good enough for me
Oct 04 15:35:57 <jd> there isn't any real lock anywhere
Oct 04 15:36:09 <DocScrutinizer> nidO: my words since 12 months: have a textedit field to enter arbitrary current directories (without restrictions) like on OSX finder
Oct 04 15:36:12 <jd> i wish they had made / bigger though
Oct 04 15:36:15 <jd> 256mb is tight
Oct 04 15:36:40 <jd> other than that i have no issues with anything
Oct 04 15:36:48 <jd> i just made symlinks to fix some stuff and it works fine now i guess
Oct 04 15:37:17 <lcuk> GAN900, "But what can you do?"    <<< we can try to do as Nokia should do: innovate
Oct 04 15:37:20 <DocScrutinizer> nidO: that's nonsense (borked my phone), you got permissions for that, which reliably keep restricted user from "borking phone"
Oct 04 15:37:22 <_trine> it seems really odd that petrovich can no longer open the file system
Oct 04 15:37:34 <lcuk> get off haunches and actually make something revolutionary :)
Oct 04 15:41:07 <DocScrutinizer> nidO: if you got a proper complete pathname in your filemanager, and can cd up and down like on any usual unix, that doesn't mean user can erase or modify arbitrary files. It just means display isn't artificially messed up so even experienced users need to think each time about "wtf was 'Documents' now?? :-/"
Oct 04 15:42:12 <DocScrutinizer> honestly, a filemanager that doesn't allow user to even *read* own $HOME, that's completely insane
Oct 04 15:42:27 <jd> i've had a n900 for a few months now
Oct 04 15:42:32 <jd> and so far it's the best phone i've ever had
Oct 04 15:42:48 <jd> the battery life isnt even that bad compared to other phones i had before, it lasts me 2 days or so on a charge with regular use
Oct 04 15:45:27 <kerio> the n900 is ridiculously great
Oct 04 15:45:31 <TomaszD> has tmo gone to the grave permanently?
Oct 04 15:45:32 <kerio> shame it has some really, really stupid flaws :(
Oct 04 15:45:32 <nidO> DocScrutinizer: it's effectively a neverending argument though. If the default filesystem could read the entire fs, someone would complain that it should run as root, afterall its not a file "manager" if you cant manage the files because the user filemanager cant touch root-owned files. a middle ground between having users borking phones and making the filesystem inaccessible has to be found,
Oct 04 15:45:33 <nidO> and as I said, having an *option* to access the full fs would be nice, I can fully see why it doesnt allow it as standard
Oct 04 15:45:46 <nidO> default filesystem = default filemanager*
Oct 04 15:46:04 <kerio> nidO: why the hell would you want to change files as root from a graphical filemanager
Oct 04 15:46:06 <crashanddie> My Blackberry 9700 holds a week with daily usage
Oct 04 15:46:50 <nidO> kerio: I wouldnt. but then, im happy making changes via shell anyway, lack of graphical filesystem to access above docs doesnt much bother me
Oct 04 15:47:14 <kerio> now, having the browser inable to choose arbitrary files... that's bad
Oct 04 15:47:39 <DocScrutinizer51> nidO: which desktop linux has such rationale? was the fact none (except mac) has ever a problem?
Oct 04 15:48:16 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: the Finder has options to show hidden&system files
Oct 04 15:48:36 <DocScrutinizer51> kerio: I know, I mentioned that above
Oct 04 15:48:47 <kerio> and you can just tell it to go to /bin/ or whatever
Oct 04 15:51:22 <kerio> really, how is one supposed to upload a file in... /home/user/ to a website
Oct 04 15:52:07 <DocScrutinizer> it's always the same, someone has a good concept to hide complex functions from default MMI and streamline UX, and then epigons implement the same basic simplified UX but completely leave out the extended functions that originally only were hidden
Oct 04 15:55:34 <DocScrutinizer> then 3rd party jumps in to the void and offers complementary means to cope with the missing 'advanced functions' in that crippled UI, and so the whole originally nice concept is turned into an awfull mess
Oct 04 15:56:36 <DocScrutinizer> and everybody claim " *I* did the _right_ thing!"
Oct 04 15:58:45 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: is the file manager opensource?
Oct 04 15:58:51 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Oct 04 15:58:58 <kerio> so patch it :)
Oct 04 15:59:02 <DocScrutinizer> bah
Oct 04 15:59:46 <DocScrutinizer> it needs patching of the underlying lib.so or whatever. Or why do you think pertovic did same shit like HFM?
Oct 04 15:59:55 <timeless_xchat> http://ics.svc.ovi.com/ics/app?page=livestream/herenow&service=page&mcc=244&mnc=5&cmcc=244&cmnc=5&cid=407115&bear=&lac=29000&language=1&width=800&height=480&tz=p0300&vejr=HN_S60_2.0
Oct 04 16:00:13 <DocScrutinizer> it's the file selector widget that is completely fscked up
Oct 04 16:00:20 <DocScrutinizer> not HFM
Oct 04 16:01:12 <timeless_xchat> jaffa, i got "Location not detected"
Oct 04 16:01:21 <DocScrutinizer> tbh I'd not even say a word about HFM implementing that. It's the fact the whole system is built to force app devels into same shit
Oct 04 16:03:13 <_trine> DocScrutinizer, what could have changed on my N900 to stop petrovich from picking up the files?
Oct 04 16:03:40 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, no idea
Oct 04 16:03:52 <_trine> ok
Oct 04 16:04:03 <yacc> Any quick way to make the N900 reconnect the chat services?
Oct 04 16:04:18 <yacc> Without going "online" => "offline" => "online"?
Oct 04 16:07:13 <_trine> petrovich is only 1 file in /user/bin and I have reinstalled it and it still does not work so it must be something else that has changed somewhere
Oct 04 16:07:15 <DocScrutinizer> kerio: see tickets about "HFM doesn't display file extensions", "HFM doesn't show full patchname" and the idiocy you can't tell apart 2 file of same basename in backup app, even when one of the files is on uSD and the other stored on the phone. WTF!
Oct 04 16:07:23 <DocScrutinizer> ttyl
Oct 04 16:07:52 <DocScrutinizer> s/oatchname/pathname/
Oct 04 16:08:04 <timeless_xchat> yacc: you can create profiles that are subsets of offline
Oct 04 16:08:16 <yacc> timeless_xchat, ?
Oct 04 16:08:17 <timeless_xchat> s/off/on/
Oct 04 16:08:17 <infobot> timeless_xchat meant: yacc: you can create profiles that are subsets of online
Oct 04 16:08:44 <timeless_xchat> and switch from online to a subset that excludes the account you want to kick
Oct 04 16:08:52 <timeless_xchat> and then switch back to online
Oct 04 16:10:23 <yacc> timeless_xchat, how do I do that?
Oct 04 16:11:08 <yacc> Ah well, yes, I meant anyway not "offline" (flight mode), but "offline" (IM presence).
Oct 04 16:11:26 <yacc> I was thinking more along the line of one button to click to make it refresh it's connections.
Oct 04 16:12:12 <MohammadAG51> <Termana> crashanddie, heh, really? Couple of people being MohammadAG51? :p
Oct 04 16:12:35 <MohammadAG51> i don't usually report people
Oct 04 16:12:43 <MohammadAG51> -1 for you
Oct 04 16:13:02 <MohammadAG51> meh, he's offline
Oct 04 16:24:38 <timeless_xchat> yacc: i'm talking about presence
Oct 04 16:25:53 <timeless_xchat> we don't have a ui to create phone profiles
Oct 04 16:26:02 <timeless_xchat> only im status profiles
Oct 04 16:44:22 <MohammadAG51> what's the dev node for a mic?
Oct 04 16:58:18 <DocScrutinizer> dev node for mic? don't think there's such a thing
Oct 04 16:58:27 <johnsq> Hi
Oct 04 17:03:37 <Jaffa> re
Oct 04 17:04:41 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: there's /dev/snd/* holding device nodes for the ADCs & DACs available in the system
Oct 04 17:06:05 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: and there's */controlC0 as lowest level access to mixer, aiui. Mic has no own device node, as it's not a distinct device
Oct 04 17:17:48 <_trine> from wht I can see of it all these blue tooth apps only send 1 file at a time,, is this correct?
Oct 04 17:47:03 <Goliath23> hi. qtcreator offers me to update from qt 4.6 to qt 4.7 .. can I still target pr 1.2 after that?
Oct 04 17:47:10 <Goliath23> (on the n900 I mean)
Oct 04 17:50:38 <lcuk> Goliath23, qt4.7 is at present in -devel
Oct 04 17:53:05 <mece> lcuk, qt4.7 final?
Oct 04 17:53:24 <lcuk> mece, not sure if its been updated since the final came out
Oct 04 17:53:30 <lcuk> have a look on packages though
Oct 04 17:53:37 <mece> lcuk, don't think so.
Oct 04 17:53:43 <lcuk>  do know qt4.7 is wriggling around other places though
Oct 04 17:55:39 * MohammadAG51 wants Frets on Fire
Oct 04 18:07:43 <Goliath23> lcuk: where can I search through the repo contents? is there something like packages.ubuntu.org?
Oct 04 18:08:00 <timeless_mbp> sp3000: oh
Oct 04 18:08:05 <lcuk> yes Goliath23 http://maemo.org/packages/
Oct 04 18:08:10 <timeless_mbp> i think i know why my mac is starting to slow down!
Oct 04 18:08:10 <Goliath23> lcuk: thanks
Oct 04 18:08:49 <timeless_mbp> i only have 10gb of disk space left on my mac
Oct 04 18:08:51 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, you added a tinfoil hat?
Oct 04 18:08:58 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: kinda
Oct 04 18:10:34 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: basically every time my system tries to write to disk, i think it has to think harder about finding space
Oct 04 18:14:05 <Venemo> what's the difference between 'su' and 'su -' ?
Oct 04 18:14:19 <FauxFaux> One destroys the environment more.
Oct 04 18:14:47 <Venemo> FauxFaux: ?
Oct 04 18:15:00 <FauxFaux> Venemo: ?
Oct 04 18:15:25 <Venemo> FauxFaux: what do you mean by "destroys the environment", and how much "more"?
Oct 04 18:15:50 <RST38h> moo all
Oct 04 18:16:06 <FauxFaux> Venemo: Try it and find out?  Observe the current directory etc.
Oct 04 18:16:45 <Venemo> FauxFaux: well, I haven't noticed anything different yet, but someone once told me that 'su -' is "better" - he didn't explain why though
Oct 04 18:16:47 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, sounds like many things
Oct 04 18:17:01 <lcuk> having a good cleanup and reorganisation should do you good :P
Oct 04 18:21:15 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: i don't have that much data..
Oct 04 18:21:53 <timeless_mbp> i mean, sure, 175gb of vm's :)
Oct 04 18:29:08 <ZogG> is TMO down?
Oct 04 18:29:52 <Venemo> hm... when launching the Maemo 5 SDK, Xephyr displays only a blank black window... what can be the issue?
Oct 04 18:30:18 <Venemo> it was working previously
Oct 04 18:30:42 <sp3000> man my microwave is dumb
Oct 04 18:30:56 <sp3000> noo I can't add 10s to the time after it's started. or 10min for that matter
Oct 04 18:31:02 <timeless_mbp> heh
Oct 04 18:31:07 <sp3000> I can add 1min, but not with the button labeled 1min
Oct 04 18:31:13 <sp3000> but the start button
Oct 04 18:31:15 <sp3000> !
Oct 04 18:31:30 * timeless_mbp rotfl
Oct 04 18:32:04 <Stskeeps> sp3000: fixed release schedule microwave
Oct 04 18:32:22 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: upgrades available for 150EUR
Oct 04 18:32:58 <timeless_mbp> oh, and upgrades don't include a warranty
Oct 04 18:33:29 * timeless_mbp is almost done reading spam
Oct 04 18:33:39 <timeless_mbp> it's sad, but reading spam is so much faster than reading mail
Oct 04 18:34:45 <Venemo> here is the error message: Could not create server lock file: /tmp/.X2-lock
Oct 04 18:34:55 <RST38h> you have got another Xephyr running
Oct 04 18:35:01 <Venemo> no I haven't
Oct 04 18:35:12 <RST38h> do ls -l /
Oct 04 18:35:19 <RST38h> and paste the "tmp" line
Oct 04 18:35:43 <sp3000> timeless_mbp: you'd wish all mail was spam! ...oh, wait
Oct 04 18:35:51 <Venemo> RST38h: drwxrwxrwt.  28 root root 12288 Oct  4 20:33 tmp
Oct 04 18:36:04 <RST38h> hm
Oct 04 18:36:19 <RST38h> DO ls -l /tmp/.X*
Oct 04 18:36:56 <Venemo> RST38h: http://fpaste.org/4nyj/
Oct 04 18:37:18 <wmarone> doh
Oct 04 18:37:23 <wmarone> TMO is toast
Oct 04 18:37:28 <Venemo> how so?
Oct 04 18:37:31 <Venemo> what happened to it?
Oct 04 18:37:39 <wmarone> vbulletin database error
Oct 04 18:37:44 <Corsac> the n770 has frozen?
Oct 04 18:38:08 <Venemo> RST38h: should I delete the folder it is trying to access from /tmp ?
Oct 04 18:38:12 <Venemo> Corsac: lol!
Oct 04 18:38:23 <RST38h> Venemo: rm -rf /tmp/.X2-lock
Oct 04 18:38:42 <MohammadAG51> fucking router
Oct 04 18:38:44 <Venemo> RST38h: rm: cannot remove `/tmp/.X2-lock': Operation not permitted
Oct 04 18:38:55 <MohammadAG51> sudo?
Oct 04 18:39:03 <RST38h> SUDO!
Oct 04 18:39:07 <Venemo> ooops
Oct 04 18:39:19 * RST38h sighs: some people are really better off with Windows
Oct 04 18:39:42 <Venemo> okay
Oct 04 18:39:56 <Venemo> 'su -c 'rm -rf /tmp/.X2-lock'' did the trick
Oct 04 18:40:10 <MohammadAG51> Nokia's devs? :P
Oct 04 18:40:30 <MohammadAG51> Oh noes
Oct 04 18:40:34 <Venemo> Fatal server error:
Oct 04 18:40:35 <MohammadAG51> tmo database error
Oct 04 18:40:35 <Venemo> Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running
Oct 04 18:40:46 <Venemo> this is what it says
Oct 04 19:01:17 <timeless_mbp> hrm, i guess i could get some space back by deleting a 50gb vm image :)
Oct 04 19:07:21 <juk> where is radio list located by default from vanila image ?
Oct 04 19:07:57 <juk> one the best things I get from bying N900
Oct 04 19:08:38 <juk> learn some deutch also
Oct 04 19:08:55 <juk> and finish :D
Oct 04 19:09:30 <juk> sorry Finnish
Oct 04 19:10:25 <juk> Finnish Phone :D
Oct 04 19:12:00 <juk> where is radio list located by default from vanila image ?
Oct 04 19:12:17 <MohammadAG51> what radio list
Oct 04 19:12:23 <MohammadAG51> all N900s have the same radios
Oct 04 19:13:01 <juk> MohammadAG51: I mean internet radio, music
Oct 04 19:13:17 <MohammadAG51> oh, idk
Oct 04 19:13:50 <juk> MohammadAG51: I listed for xml, html, txt, list nothing
Oct 04 19:14:30 <juk> MohammadAG51: they did some modifications I guess
Oct 04 19:15:55 <juk> MohammadAG51: idk, thats it?
Oct 04 19:20:32 <RST38h> http://thpmaemo.blogspot.com/2010/10/qt-write-once-ifdef-everywhere.html
Oct 04 19:20:47 <RST38h> Fun fun fun, make note of the AknUi usage :)))
Oct 04 19:21:21 <juk> MohammadAG51: ok i'll try to decrypt what idk meant, see ya
Oct 04 19:21:33 <MohammadAG51> infobot, wtf idk
Oct 04 19:21:35 <infobot> Gee...  I don't know what idk means...
Oct 04 19:21:41 <MohammadAG51> exactly
Oct 04 19:21:44 <MohammadAG51> idk = that
Oct 04 19:32:26 <pupnik> how is the latency through that gateway n900evil ?
Oct 04 19:47:23 <Venemo> hey guys
Oct 04 19:47:24 <Venemo> http://pastebin.com/0wSz9JUH
Oct 04 19:47:30 <Venemo> this is what Xephyr keeps saying to me
Oct 04 19:47:47 <Venemo> could anyone please help?
Oct 04 19:48:37 <larsemil> anyone knows if there is any new phone coming with maemo on it? n900 is starting to get bit old?
Oct 04 19:49:36 <Venemo> larsemil: the next release will probably have new hardware. there are rumours but nothing is announced yet
Oct 04 19:49:51 <larsemil> no other vendors picking it up?
Oct 04 19:50:00 <larswey> i miss my N900 :(
Oct 04 19:50:12 <larswey> didnt stand 2 hours under salt water
Oct 04 19:50:29 <pupnik> imagine n900 with bigger screen and more keys
Oct 04 19:50:50 <pupnik> that would make my gumdrops burst with flavor
Oct 04 19:51:55 <Venemo> pupnik: what happened?
Oct 04 19:52:05 <pupnik> ?
Oct 04 19:52:49 <pupnik> picture stretching n900 screen a couple centimeters each direction to get 1024x600 or somth
Oct 04 19:53:48 <GAN900> pupnik, I want more DPI.
Oct 04 19:54:07 <pupnik> diminishing returns GAN900 - where does it end?
Oct 04 19:55:47 <Venemo> pupnik: "i miss my N900 :("... what happened to it?
Oct 04 19:56:04 <pupnik> water splashed onto keyboard
Oct 04 19:56:18 <pupnik> but it's beyond the loan date now anyway
Oct 04 19:56:32 <DocScrutinizer> seem infobot has grammatical problems, correct wording is "Gee...  I don't know IS what idk means..." X-P
Oct 04 19:57:04 <GAN900> pupnik, when I can't see pixels with a magnifying glass.
Oct 04 19:57:05 <n900evil> what gateway?
Oct 04 19:57:09 <n900evil> pupnik:
Oct 04 19:57:16 <pupnik> tor n900evil
Oct 04 19:57:34 <n900evil> this is not a pipe.
Oct 04 19:57:34 <ds3> not being able to see pixels is a good thing
Oct 04 19:58:03 <pupnik> n900 is too high dpi for old eyes
Oct 04 19:58:07 <GAN900> We're damn close with the N900.
Oct 04 19:58:15 <GAN900> pupnik, that's a software problem.
Oct 04 19:59:00 <pupnik> i'd like to see more AI now.  pixels don't excite
Oct 04 19:59:37 <DocScrutinizer> there's no such thing like "too high DPI", at least for user experience. Too high DPI just *could* really mean "too weak GFX engine"
Oct 04 20:00:16 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: - i think all factors must be in balance
Oct 04 20:00:17 <Arkenoi> well, i guess 300-350 dpi could be kinda enough :-)
Oct 04 20:00:35 <n900evil> Too high dpi is under 60nm dot pitch
Oct 04 20:00:41 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: why?
Oct 04 20:01:04 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: engineering and economic trade-offs
Oct 04 20:01:25 <DocScrutinizer> n900evil: yep, when the DPI actually starts creating optically active structures, then that's for sure too high DPI
Oct 04 20:02:02 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: that's not "too high DPI", rather that's "too expensive display" then
Oct 04 20:02:02 <n900evil> More seriously, I am unconvinced by arguments for over 250dpi
Oct 04 20:03:00 <DocScrutinizer> n900evil: >>250 DPI come in just handy, for HMDs ;-)
Oct 04 20:03:04 <pupnik> ok thanks DocScrutinizer - i see your point now
Oct 04 20:03:50 <n900evil> HMD sure.
Oct 04 20:04:04 <n900evil> for that you want 25000
Oct 04 20:04:17 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Oct 04 20:04:37 <Venemo> Scratchbox and Xephyr keep screwing me up
Oct 04 20:04:45 <Venemo> here is what it says: http://pastebin.com/YMN6UPqf
Oct 04 20:04:49 <Venemo> could anyone please help me?
Oct 04 20:06:20 <pog> hello, does it harm, to reformat the FAT32 space to FAT32 and ext? Because I prefer some space for a linux installation.
Oct 04 20:06:34 <pog> I talk from the N900
Oct 04 20:06:39 <lcuk> Venemo, tried rebooting?
Oct 04 20:09:04 <Venemo> lcuk, yes
Oct 04 20:09:18 <lcuk> oooer Venemo
Oct 04 20:09:43 <lcuk> i dont normally use xephyr myself so havent seen this
Oct 04 20:09:52 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, what ppi is the CCD on the n900?
Oct 04 20:09:59 <Venemo> and Scratchbox login tells me, "Session setup problem, abort."
Oct 04 20:10:20 <DocScrutinizer> damn, I installed a few apps yesterday for testing them (e.g flashlight-extra, tower cell info...) and it seems something is causing considerable hickups of whole system now :-/
Oct 04 20:10:48 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, flashlight-extra
Oct 04 20:10:59 <MohammadAG> see dmesg, it gave a shitload of kernel errors
Oct 04 20:11:07 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: yup, I as well suspect that one
Oct 04 20:11:11 <MohammadAG> Unable to start flashlight-extra
Oct 04 20:11:12 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Oct 04 20:11:15 <MohammadAG> dsme: respawning
Oct 04 20:11:21 <DocScrutinizer> yuck
Oct 04 20:11:23 <MohammadAG> lemme try and find eit
Oct 04 20:11:24 <MohammadAG> it*
Oct 04 20:11:43 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: the math is easy, no?
Oct 04 20:11:58 <MohammadAG> Sep 22 23:48:37 Nokia-N900 init: flashlight-extra main process ended, respawning
Oct 04 20:12:09 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, sure if the variables are known, I don't know the sensor dimensions
Oct 04 20:12:18 <MohammadAG> Sep 22 23:48:52 Nokia-N900 init: flashlight-extra main process ended, respawning
Oct 04 20:12:24 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: sensor?
Oct 04 20:12:39 <lcuk> ccd sensor
Oct 04 20:13:07 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: according to my tools used this very minute the display is 78mm wide
Oct 04 20:13:16 <DocScrutinizer> and has 800 as we all know
Oct 04 20:13:59 <DocScrutinizer> so DPI is 800 / (78 / 25.4) if I'm not completely wrong
Oct 04 20:14:04 <Venemo> I'll try to reboot again
Oct 04 20:14:08 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, CCD
Oct 04 20:14:17 <lcuk> the camera sensor
Oct 04 20:14:21 <lcuk> not the screen display
Oct 04 20:14:30 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, ccd. I guess we don't have any CCD on N900
Oct 04 20:14:39 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, camera is cmos
Oct 04 20:14:47 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, idk
Oct 04 20:14:56 <MohammadAG> so, the back sensor is IR
Oct 04 20:15:12 <MohammadAG> it detects colour, so I'm assuming it detects how much the IR is reflected
Oct 04 20:15:25 <lcuk> cos thats at the sort of resolution n900evil needs for an eyeball one :P
Oct 04 20:15:30 <MohammadAG> sadly, both the front proximity sensor and the back sensor flash at a very high rate
Oct 04 20:15:35 <lcuk> and ahhh i thought all cameras were CCD :$
Oct 04 20:15:51 <MohammadAG> which imo, would save a lot of battery if they didn't
Oct 04 20:15:59 * lcuk never needed to dig deeper
Oct 04 20:16:01 <MohammadAG> why didn't they go the N95-way
Oct 04 20:16:22 <MohammadAG> a mechanical switch for camera, and a menu item to unmount the card
Oct 04 20:16:24 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: what are you after??
Oct 04 20:16:44 <MohammadAG> Nokia's hardware designer's head
Oct 04 20:17:10 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, lemme reprase
Oct 04 20:17:17 <MohammadAG> "I deleted boot, please help" nice thread title
Oct 04 20:17:21 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: what's the problem, what's the topic?
Oct 04 20:17:25 <lcuk> a mechanical button being used on a removable/movable piece wears easily
Oct 04 20:17:45 <lcuk> (speaking of the reasoning for the camera slide detection
Oct 04 20:17:51 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, why the hell does the proximity sensor not turn off
Oct 04 20:18:05 <MohammadAG> why doesn't it stay off until needed
Oct 04 20:18:17 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: because somebody keeps the device node open
Oct 04 20:18:20 <MohammadAG> lcuk, my N95's been working fine for 3 years, or a bit more
Oct 04 20:19:08 <lcuk> MohammadAG, idk then
Oct 04 20:19:41 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, that wastes battery life
Oct 04 20:19:52 <MohammadAG> not by a lot, but it does waste battery life
Oct 04 20:20:01 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: the sensors are amazingly humble on power
Oct 04 20:20:11 <MohammadAG> really?
Oct 04 20:20:14 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Oct 04 20:20:25 <MohammadAG> so they can't be exploited as a mug warmer, DAMN IT
Oct 04 20:20:32 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Oct 04 20:24:37 <MohammadAG> yay
Oct 04 20:24:42 <MohammadAG> tracker is on my PC
Oct 04 20:24:50 <Stskeeps> kill it with fire!
Oct 04 20:24:52 <MohammadAG> thank you canonical, that's all I needed to rape my CPU
Oct 04 20:24:55 <kerio> OH NO IT'S SPREADING
Oct 04 20:24:55 <MohammadAG>  1961 mohammad  20   0 88740  14m 3924 S   75  0.4  22:08.62 tracker-store
Oct 04 20:25:07 <MohammadAG> yay, 80C
Oct 04 20:26:32 <MohammadAG> The following packages will be REMOVED:
Oct 04 20:26:39 <MohammadAG> hmm, doesn't look right
Oct 04 20:26:56 <MohammadAG> ah, forgot --purge
Oct 04 20:27:10 <kerio> you forgot --kill-it-with-fire
Oct 04 20:27:28 <kerio> is there a way to tell apt to shred the files instead?
Oct 04 20:27:40 <MohammadAG> lol
Oct 04 20:27:50 <MohammadAG> nah, it has supercow powers
Oct 04 20:27:56 <MohammadAG> it'll shred them on its own
Oct 04 20:30:13 <yacc> I wondered if there is a tool that auto-adjusts the brightness?
Oct 04 20:30:45 <yacc> Considering that there seems to be a sensor even on the front to sense how bright the environment is, ...
Oct 04 20:31:04 <MohammadAG> afaik brightness is adjusted by default
Oct 04 20:33:30 <Venemo> yacc: it is called an ambient light sensor, and it does auto-adjust the brightness
Oct 04 20:37:59 <yacc> Venemo, yeah, but the N900 seems not to adjust the brightness, ...
Oct 04 20:38:28 <Venemo> yacc, it does
Oct 04 20:38:40 <Venemo> yacc, bring it to a bright room, then to darkness
Oct 04 20:38:49 <yacc> Venemo, now for the G1 for example which does not such a sensor somebody wrote a tool that uses the camera (won't work on the N900 because of the slider) to decide the brightness, not all the time, but some time, ...
Oct 04 20:39:34 <yacc> Venemo, you mean the brightness slider just sets the "effect" that I want to have, and the N900 has been busy giving me the brillant image quality all the time on it's own?
Oct 04 20:39:43 <MohammadAG> yacc, if you restart mce it's broken until the next reboot
Oct 04 20:39:52 <MohammadAG> also, I think qwerty12's applet breaks it sometimes
Oct 04 20:41:36 <yacc> mce?
Oct 04 20:42:10 <MohammadAG> ~mce
Oct 04 20:42:11 <infobot> MCE = Machine Check Exception
Oct 04 20:42:14 <MohammadAG> fuck
Oct 04 20:42:15 <MohammadAG> you
Oct 04 20:42:24 <yacc> ?
Oct 04 20:42:25 <MohammadAG> ~mce is also Mode Control Entity
Oct 04 20:42:25 <infobot> MohammadAG: okay
Oct 04 20:42:32 <piggz> is there a libqt4-qt3support package for maemo that is uptodate with the current libqt4?
Oct 04 20:42:33 <MohammadAG> I hate that bot sometimes
Oct 04 20:42:35 <MohammadAG> ~mce
Oct 04 20:42:35 <infobot> MCE = Machine Check Exception.  Mode Control Entity
Oct 04 20:42:40 <MohammadAG> sigh
Oct 04 20:42:52 <MohammadAG> yacc, it's what controls most lights in the system
Oct 04 20:42:58 <MohammadAG> vibration is a light
Oct 04 20:43:06 <Venemo> yacc, it won't affect the brightness slider
Oct 04 20:46:05 <yacc> When we are at the topic, anyway to see what process caused some light/vibration/sound event?
Oct 04 20:46:48 <Venemo> MohammadAG: it also controls the screen orientation
Oct 04 20:46:59 <Venemo> ~MohammadAG
Oct 04 20:47:05 <yacc> I've got the N900 just last week, and it has this tendency to give off all kinds of sounds, but when I check the display there is nothing marked (the left top corner icon is just blue, no yellow marking for a message for example).
Oct 04 20:47:18 <Venemo> what sort of sounds?
Oct 04 20:47:20 <MohammadAG> yeah, it polls the accelerometer and reports orientation, sometimes crashes under the tension of life
Oct 04 20:47:33 <Venemo> yacc, perhaps you installed something that messes things up.
Oct 04 20:47:48 <yacc> Yeah, but how do I figure what messes things up?
Oct 04 20:48:26 <Venemo> yacc, difficult to answer
Oct 04 20:48:41 <Venemo> yacc, perhaps if you would explain in more detail, the guys here could help you more
Oct 04 20:48:45 <yacc> Yeah, that's why I ask ;)
Oct 04 20:48:59 <yacc> E.g. yesterday I had it play everytime I've turned the screen off or on.
Oct 04 20:49:05 <yacc> Today it does not do this, ...
Oct 04 20:49:34 <yacc> Venemo, luckily for me I had no time yet to fool around myself, ... :)
Oct 04 20:50:04 <pupnik> yacc: your problem description is hard to understand.  perhaps you can youtube upload a video of the problem
Oct 04 20:51:12 <dRbiG> hmm, just wondering, proper way to pronounce maemo is like ma-emo or does ae stands for something more fancy here? :)
Oct 04 20:51:39 <yacc> pupnik, well, the issue is that it's not doing it today.
Oct 04 20:52:07 <yacc> Generally speaking not being able to figure out what process has played a sound, vibrated or activated leds is bad, ...
Oct 04 20:52:37 <Venemo> well, it usually plays a sound when you receive an e-mail/sms, and stuff
Oct 04 20:52:48 <Venemo> you can also set what events you want the LED to turn on fo
Oct 04 20:52:57 <Venemo> you can also set what events you want the LED to turn on for in the Settings application
Oct 04 20:53:02 <yacc> pupnik, it would be perhaps different with a stupid device, but with a device that is so "extensible", ....
Oct 04 20:53:42 <yacc> Venemo, yeah, but if an app plays a sound, while not giving a visible cue, it's hard to figure out what's happening.
Oct 04 20:54:25 <pupnik> users learn which sound means what after a few days
Oct 04 21:05:08 <`Francesca_Lucch> how do i  ake screen shots in n900?
Oct 04 21:05:23 <MohammadAG> CTRL+SHIFT+P
Oct 04 21:05:26 <SpeedEvil> ctrl-shift-p
Oct 04 21:05:45 <merlincorey> there's an app for that, too
Oct 04 21:05:54 <merlincorey> I've always wanted to say that in a non-i-zone
Oct 04 21:06:09 <merlincorey> but yeah there's an app that does screenshots/screencasting
Oct 04 21:06:18 <SpeedEvil> cpu-applet
Oct 04 21:06:25 <SpeedEvil> generally a good thing to install
Oct 04 21:07:06 <merlincorey> yeah I like that one - odd that it adds a little meter AND does screenshotting but hey :P
Oct 04 21:13:29 <DocScrutinizer> a mandatory thing to install
Oct 04 21:15:26 <Venemo> is it possible to install the Diablo SDK alongside the Fremantle one?
Oct 04 21:17:19 <timeless_mbp> Venemo: using scratchbox?
Oct 04 21:17:53 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: sounds are also played for loss/establishing of connectivity
Oct 04 21:18:26 <Venemo> timeless_mbp: yes, for now
Oct 04 21:18:38 <DocScrutinizer> then a warning sound is played for bat-low notifications
Oct 04 21:18:47 <timeless_mbp> Venemo:  basically you create a distinct scratchbox for each sdk
Oct 04 21:19:08 <timeless_mbp> well, one for x86-diablo, one for arm-diablo, one for x86-fremantle, one for arm-fremantle
Oct 04 21:19:15 <timeless_mbp> you just switch between them...
Oct 04 21:20:12 <Venemo> timeless_mbp: yes, that much I know
Oct 04 21:20:25 <Venemo> timeless_mbp: the question is, where do I get the packages for the Diablo SDK?
Oct 04 21:20:40 <Venemo> timeless_mbp: there's no download link on http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/#sdk_releases
Oct 04 21:20:49 <luke-jr_> …
Oct 04 21:21:06 <luke-jr_> I need an app that does an alarm every N hours, allowing me to reset it early
Oct 04 21:21:09 <luke-jr_> any ideas?
Oct 04 21:21:14 <timeless_mbp> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/diablo/INSTALL.txt ?
Oct 04 21:22:15 <Venemo> timeless_mbp: k, thanks
Oct 04 21:22:38 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: first you could try "for f in /usr/share/sounds/*; do echo $f; aplay $f; sleep 1; done" and find out which sound exactly it was that pestered you
Oct 04 21:28:25 <DocScrutinizer51> luke-jr_: alarmed?
Oct 04 21:53:29 * lardman hates writing GUI code
Oct 04 21:56:33 <johnsq> lardman: it is easy text box and let enter the commands.
Oct 04 21:56:50 <lardman> :)
Oct 04 21:56:53 <lardman> if only
Oct 04 21:57:14 <lardman> trying to get my head around pyqt
Oct 04 21:58:11 <Chani> pyqt ftw :)
Oct 04 21:59:00 <lardman> can you add a layout to a layout? Seems not, quite confusing coming from GTK+
Oct 04 21:59:01 <Carneque> Hey all, anyone know if MeBook reads pdf files?
Oct 04 22:04:02 <lardman> hmm, seems rather than being able to group together widgets in H or V Boxes, one needs to generate a GridLayout and set the exact positions
Oct 04 22:04:04 <lardman> shame that
Oct 04 22:04:52 <Chani> o.0
Oct 04 22:04:59 <Chani> lardman: yes you can add a layout to a layout.
Oct 04 22:05:15 <Chani> qt is very anti-exact-positions ;)
Oct 04 22:05:28 <lardman> oh right
Oct 04 22:05:38 <lardman> well that is good, I wonder why my IDE was moaning at me
Oct 04 22:05:40 <Chani> it should be something like layout1.addLayout(layout2)
Oct 04 22:05:44 <Chani> oh, IDEs..
Oct 04 22:05:48 <lardman> yeah that was what I was doing
Oct 04 22:05:50 <Chani> lardman: qt designer?
Oct 04 22:06:01 <lardman> nah, am using Spyder
Oct 04 22:06:05 <lardman> is PyQT
Oct 04 22:06:06 <Chani> oh. never heard of it
Oct 04 22:06:15 * Chani makes a note
Oct 04 22:06:23 <lardman> nor me, just wanted something that worked under Windows and did completion
Oct 04 22:06:37 <lardman> is a bit like MATLAB, which is nice for me
Oct 04 22:07:30 <lardman> ah, I think I need to s/set/add
Oct 04 22:07:33 <Chani> lardman: btw, #qt is a good channel for questions like that :)
Oct 04 22:08:20 <lardman> Chani: yeah, I was more just thinking out loud, but I guess I should head there and ask if I have problems
Oct 04 22:10:51 <lardman> ooo! I'm happy, I have a GUI finally working (under Windows at least, but it's a start)
Oct 04 22:11:06 <Chani> :)
Oct 04 22:11:29 <nuovodna> hi, i receive this error with "apt-get dist-upgrade" : pymaemo-optify but is not going to be installed
Oct 04 22:11:33 <lardman> I always find it's that effort to get the first UI up and running that is the worst, then it's just modification
Oct 04 22:11:45 <nuovodna> but pymaemo-optify is installed (extras-devel active)
Oct 04 22:11:47 * lardman likes algorithms, not presentation
Oct 04 22:11:58 * Chani usually starts by modifying an existing app ;)
Oct 04 22:12:34 <lardman> Chani: yeah I was considering that, but thought (foolishly) that it would be quicker to write from scratch than dig out something similar
Oct 04 22:12:58 <Chani> pyqt + .ui files dynamically loaded = stupidly easy UI prototypes
Oct 04 22:13:23 <lardman> not so fond of .ui files tbh
Oct 04 22:13:30 <lardman> I'd prefer to see the code
Oct 04 22:13:40 <Chani> eh.. depends on the situation
Oct 04 22:13:41 <lardman> and I also don't much like QT Designer
Oct 04 22:13:54 <pupnik> tell me of your homeworld, usul
Oct 04 22:14:33 <lardman> it's a bit half-hearted in terms of UI 0design - can't drag stuff around and resize, hard to add items to layouts or other widgets, etc
Oct 04 22:14:38 <Chani> for fairly straightforward, static UIs (say, a config dialog or a toy app) ui files are much easier and maintainable. for a more complex, dynamic UI you end up wanting code.  ...or you can use both :)
Oct 04 22:15:13 <lardman> sure, I just don't see much time saved using it really
Oct 04 22:15:21 <Chani> lardman: I never had problems dragging things around... I tend to only resize the main dialog though, everything else follows its layout and if it's not the right size then I didn't do the layout right ;)
Oct 04 22:15:26 <lardman> for me perhaps, but not next time round, etc
Oct 04 22:16:18 <lardman> re layouts - that may be my failing there, the only GUI design tool I've used is the dreaded VB, which sets absolute positions and sizes, so is a bit hard to get away from that thinking
Oct 04 22:16:25 <Chani> eeeeew
Oct 04 22:16:42 <lardman> can't argue that VB produces code quickly though ;)
Oct 04 22:17:01 <Chani> designer's layouting can be a bit fiddly at times, though. I never tought the draggable layouts, I always right-click a widget to set its layout
Oct 04 22:17:18 <Chani> s/tought/touch/
Oct 04 22:17:19 <infobot> Chani meant: designer's layouting can be a bit fiddly at times, though. I never touch the draggable layouts, I always right-click a widget to set its layout
Oct 04 22:17:22 <Chani> aand I really need sleep :P
Oct 04 22:18:02 <lardman> If I have widgets in the UI already, I had all sorts of troubles trying to insert a layout into iirc a QGroupBox widget
Oct 04 22:18:46 <lardman> as the widget was 2 pixels high and wouldn't let me insert anything
Oct 04 22:19:00 <lardman> but again that may be my fault, as perhaps I needed to wrap something in a layout, or not
Oct 04 22:20:04 <lardman> shame the little tree diagram showing widgets and layouts doesn't allow dragging and dropping of the various bits and bobs to change things when it's hard to do in the graphical representation
Oct 04 22:23:20 <lardman> Chani: night night, thanks for the help :)
Oct 04 22:23:44 <luke-jr_> DocScrutinizer51: is that an app?
Oct 04 22:24:05 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Oct 04 22:24:22 <DocScrutinizer> though not for debian afaik
Oct 04 22:24:30 <DocScrutinizer> or gebtoo
Oct 04 22:24:38 <DocScrutinizer> gentoo*
Oct 04 22:29:27 <luke-jr_> DocScrutinizer: thinking for Maemo atm
Oct 04 22:32:52 <lcuk2> DocScrutinizer, you got an internal schematic of n900?
Oct 04 22:33:03 <lcuk2> around the stylus slot especially
Oct 04 22:33:16 <DocScrutinizer> err, sorry?
Oct 04 22:33:23 <lardman> where's qwerty when you need him? ;)
Oct 04 22:33:27 <DocScrutinizer> what's an internal schematic?
Oct 04 22:33:54 <lardman> lcuk2: I have one, but not handy, can send it to you tomorrow - schematic iirc and pics
Oct 04 22:34:12 <lcuk2> lardman, :) awesome, thanks
Oct 04 22:34:20 <lcuk2> something appears to have been forced into it
Oct 04 22:34:22 <lcuk2> and its broken
Oct 04 22:34:25 <lardman> hmm
Oct 04 22:34:27 <DocScrutinizer> (i got friggin transition failures with mhd though :-( No fun)
Oct 04 22:34:30 <lcuk2> can get a stylus in, but not out
Oct 04 22:34:44 <lardman> I've got the disassembly guide thing which should show the hw layout
Oct 04 22:35:11 <lardman> otoh a quick search of e.g. rapidshare might get you the pdf this evening
Oct 04 22:35:29 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk2: why don't you ask for what you really need?
Oct 04 22:36:00 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, transition failures?
Oct 04 22:36:09 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: all this is easily available and well documented where to get it
Oct 04 22:36:20 <lardman> indeed
Oct 04 22:36:46 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, uninstall mhd, install my modified desktop, then install matan's
Oct 04 22:36:54 <MohammadAG51> you're probably missing pr1.2 libs
Oct 04 22:37:21 <MohammadAG51> ignore that, don't install mine, you're on 1.1.1
Oct 04 22:37:23 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: weird shit. dialer refuses to change screen orientation until I click on the menu and select (e.g.?) "rotation". This very moment it rotates accordingly and then is sticky there again
Oct 04 22:37:51 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, did you reboot after installation?
Oct 04 22:37:51 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: nope, clean PR1.2 here
Oct 04 22:38:02 <DocScrutinizer> err, good call
Oct 04 22:38:21 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, btw, matan's deb only has the hildon-desktop binary
Oct 04 22:38:30 <MohammadAG51> you need the new transitions.ini
Oct 04 22:38:38 <DocScrutinizer> duh
Oct 04 22:39:19 <DocScrutinizer> anyway efect was weird, transitions/screen-rotation only took place when opening a new window
Oct 04 22:39:35 <MohammadAG51> yeah, happens here sometimes
Oct 04 22:39:45 <MohammadAG51> http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/new/hildon-desktop-kinetic_2.2.138-1+0m5_armel.deb
Oct 04 22:39:55 <lcuk2> DocScrutinizer, http://liqbase.net/IMG_1940_tab.jpg
Oct 04 22:39:56 <MohammadAG51> uninstall mhd, install that, then install mhd
Oct 04 22:40:03 <MohammadAG51> or just extract transitions.ini
Oct 04 22:40:05 <lcuk2> based on your photos here
Oct 04 22:40:06 <lcuk2> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900/
Oct 04 22:40:09 * MohammadAG51 downgrades lcuk2
Oct 04 22:40:13 <DocScrutinizer> meh, why isn't that in the dependen... errr it's a .deb :-S
Oct 04 22:40:19 <lcuk2> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900/images/IMG_1940.JPG
Oct 04 22:40:37 <lcuk2> the circled highlight on my device has a metal tab sticking out
Oct 04 22:41:18 <MohammadAG51> lcuk2, can't you bend it back in?
Oct 04 22:41:49 <lcuk2> i might be able to now I have seen photos
Oct 04 22:42:44 * MohammadAG51 goes to bed
Oct 04 22:42:47 <MohammadAG51> night
Oct 04 22:42:58 <lcuk2> \o
Oct 04 22:43:25 <lardman> nighty night MohammadAG51
Oct 04 22:43:36 <lardman> hey SpeedEvil
Oct 04 22:45:21 <SpeedEvil> hey
Oct 04 22:46:02 <babsher_> are there any minimal distributions of maemo out there. Like ones with not GUI
Oct 04 22:46:10 <DocScrutinizer> damn DSL outage
Oct 04 22:46:30 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk2: what exactly is your question?
Oct 04 22:46:35 <wmarone> babsher_: not really, since there are no other distributions of Maemo
Oct 04 22:46:50 <DocScrutinizer> I looked at the photos, but don't really understand your problem
Oct 04 22:47:03 <babsher_> I have heard of people building there own images
Oct 04 22:47:18 <lcuk2> DocScrutinizer, dont fret :) I knew you had taken photos of the internals of n900
Oct 04 22:47:30 <wmarone> sure, but they cannot redistribute them
Oct 04 22:47:32 <lcuk2> i needed to see one from around the stylus hole
Oct 04 22:47:39 <babsher_> ok well that is fine
Oct 04 22:47:52 <babsher_> How would you go about doing that then.
Oct 04 22:47:57 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk2: all the photos I took are on that page you referred to
Oct 04 22:48:00 <babsher_> can you do it with scratch box
Oct 04 22:48:26 <DocScrutinizer> in original resolution and all
Oct 04 22:48:27 <lcuk2> DocScrutinizer, yes and I found that after I spoke in here.
Oct 04 22:48:31 <lardman> babsher_: what sort of image do you want to create?
Oct 04 22:49:04 <babsher_> well i just want a shell with python
Oct 04 22:49:36 <lcuk2> babsher_, no ui?
Oct 04 22:49:49 <babsher_> ya no ui
Oct 04 22:50:03 <lardman> might be worth looking at the Meego image builder then
Oct 04 22:50:10 <lardman> otherwise there's OE
Oct 04 22:50:22 <babsher_> i have messed around with oe a bit
Oct 04 22:50:32 <babsher_> i never got it to compile though
Oct 04 22:50:50 <lardman> babsher_: Meego is more up to date
Oct 04 22:51:07 <babsher_> do you have a link
Oct 04 22:51:07 <lardman> and afaiu the build process, quite similar
Oct 04 22:51:43 <lardman> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900
Oct 04 22:52:19 <lardman> There's a link there for Meego Image Creator, which is what you will want
Oct 04 22:52:50 <babsher_> ok i found it
Oct 04 22:52:54 <babsher_> thanks for the help!
Oct 04 22:53:08 <lardman> np, I hope it will do what you need
Oct 04 22:53:37 <babsher_> looks like it is for fedora
Oct 04 22:53:56 <lardman> build system? Yeah
Oct 04 22:54:08 <lardman> chroot so Stskeeps suggests
Oct 04 22:54:34 <babsher_> i am running ubuntu. maybe i could get a fedora virtual machine
Oct 04 22:55:04 <lardman> ping Stskeeps tomorrow
Oct 04 22:56:10 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: so what's your problem? can't pull out stylus?
Oct 04 22:57:25 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: if that's your problem, it most probably isn't caused by the spring you marked in your picture
Oct 04 22:58:10 <lardman> I do hate the way the PyQt docs are all repros of the C++ stuff
Oct 04 22:58:21 <lardman> still using C++ code to boot
Oct 04 22:58:35 <wmarone> aww
Oct 04 22:58:58 <wmarone> pandaboard requires removal of 28 resistors and jumpering of 28 connections to activate the parallel display lines
Oct 04 22:59:21 <lardman> soldertastic
Oct 04 22:59:28 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, sounds fair enough
Oct 04 23:00:13 <DocScrutinizer> after all removing 0402 or 0603 isn't really an art
Oct 04 23:00:18 <babsher_> looks like there are Debian packages, for the meego image creator
Oct 04 23:00:30 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, i have stylus out now, but ive got a metal shard sticking out in the stylus canal
Oct 04 23:00:41 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Oct 04 23:00:43 <lcuk> so i can push it in, then it gets trapped on the ledge of the stylus
Oct 04 23:01:30 <DocScrutinizer> weird scary FFS
Oct 04 23:02:00 <lcuk> yeah, its a bit rubbish, I cant insert tweezers to pull the shard into different pos
Oct 04 23:02:08 <lcuk> and it just flexes when I press it
Oct 04 23:02:08 <DocScrutinizer> I wonder though how such thing can happen
Oct 04 23:02:30 <DocScrutinizer> nah, you need to disassemble
Oct 04 23:02:31 <lcuk> there appears to be more of a gap now towards the body of the device
Oct 04 23:02:37 <lcuk> looks like it was pushed at an angle
Oct 04 23:02:54 <lcuk> i cant' its my n00
Oct 04 23:06:24 * lardman hits the sack, night all
Oct 04 23:06:35 <nox-> moin
Oct 04 23:10:56 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: how did that happen?
Oct 04 23:11:10 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: Oh - someone jammed it in your hole.
Oct 04 23:11:12 <SpeedEvil> I forgot.
Oct 04 23:11:13 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, IDK put stylus back in after a couple of weeks
Oct 04 23:11:19 <kerio> that's what she said
Oct 04 23:11:33 <lcuk> lol
Oct 04 23:11:37 <SpeedEvil> Have you considere nokia care?
Oct 04 23:11:48 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, I have only just discovered it
Oct 04 23:12:00 <lcuk> and never heard of it before
Oct 04 23:12:26 <evilrob> Im not figuring out how to enable google traffic in mappero. there is a tile set for it, but how do i turn it on?
Oct 04 23:12:27 <lcuk> my stylus hole has teeth.
Oct 04 23:12:50 <kerio> feed it bacon
Oct 04 23:13:06 <lcuk> my n900 runs on bacon already
Oct 04 23:13:24 <kerio> omnomnom
Oct 04 23:13:31 <evilrob> mmm bacon
Oct 04 23:13:35 <SpeedEvil> Oh
Oct 04 23:13:40 <lcuk> I replaced the BL-5J battery with BA-ON
Oct 04 23:13:45 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: Someone elsehitthesame problem
Oct 04 23:14:18 <lcuk> hmm SpeedEvil link
Oct 04 23:14:23 <SpeedEvil> no
Oct 04 23:14:33 <kerio> ba-on?
Oct 04 23:14:33 <evilrob> mappero help?
Oct 04 23:14:38 <SpeedEvil> Look at the logs about a week to four weeks ago.
Oct 04 23:14:41 <lcuk> evilrob, not sure :$
Oct 04 23:14:48 <lcuk> kerio, - == C
Oct 04 23:15:01 <evilrob> :(
Oct 04 23:15:06 <kerio> huh?
Oct 04 23:15:20 <kerio> what's a BA-ON
Oct 04 23:15:34 <lcuk> mmmm BA-ON
Oct 04 23:15:40 <kerio> lol
Oct 04 23:16:15 <kerio> we gotta make a bacon-cell battery
Oct 04 23:16:41 <evilrob> thats the only app i really want but dont have.  i have more than i want otherwise
Oct 04 23:16:57 <kerio> a bacon app?
Oct 04 23:16:58 <lcuk> evilrob, search help docs
Oct 04 23:17:19 <evilrob> cant now. driving.
Oct 04 23:17:26 <lcuk> kerio, bacon-cells are nearly as awesome as alcohol powered fuel cells
Oct 04 23:17:28 <kerio> but that would make the bacon-powered battery a perpetual motion machine
Oct 04 23:18:11 <lcuk> i do like the idea of the BA-ON battery
Oct 04 23:18:19 <SpeedEvil> Hoovering++
Oct 04 23:18:38 <SpeedEvil> Found a few pogo-pins.
Oct 04 23:19:42 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, still curious about the stylus issue
Oct 04 23:20:58 <lcuk> johnx	I let someone else hold it to give me directions in the car, they took the stylus out, checked directions, jammed the stylus back in at an angle and now the stylus doesn't want to fit in
Oct 04 23:21:12 <lcuk> holy crap johnx, snap!
Oct 04 23:21:20 <lcuk> thanks for the tip SpeedEvil
Oct 04 23:25:47 <evilrob> it appears mappero has no help, but a talk.maemo.org thread
Oct 04 23:25:58 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: It was someone that passed the n900 to someont to look at something, and they jammed trhe stylus in wrong
Oct 04 23:26:10 <SpeedEvil> oh
Oct 04 23:26:13 <SpeedEvil> right
Oct 04 23:26:37 <lcuk> yes I found it
Oct 04 23:26:55 <SpeedEvil> yeah. I sometimes fail at actually reading the words on the screen.
Oct 04 23:27:02 <pupnik> i love this omap3 portable with 4200mAh battery
Oct 04 23:27:08 <pupnik> it just needs to get built
Oct 04 23:28:14 <lcuk> pupnik, I would like something with uptime calculated in months even with always on? :D
Oct 04 23:28:45 <lcuk> how long do eink devices last?
Oct 04 23:29:19 <SpeedEvil> Well - I have got a battery that will do about a month.
Oct 04 23:29:26 <SpeedEvil> And it is portable - sort-of.
Oct 04 23:29:39 <ShadowJK> shoulder strap?
Oct 04 23:29:39 <SpeedEvil> Car battery.
Oct 04 23:29:50 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Oct 04 23:29:57 <ShadowJK> backpack then
Oct 04 23:30:11 <SpeedEvil> I wish mechanical prototyping was easier.
Oct 04 23:30:58 <SpeedEvil> I want to make a little thing that is maybe the same size as the n900, you drop it on the floor, and then step on it 100 times to get enough charge to recharge the phone.
Oct 04 23:37:51 <ShadowJK> my new sim-issue fix attempt: padding everywhere EXCEPT sim bay
Oct 04 23:38:16 <kthomas_vh> heh
Oct 04 23:38:24 <kthomas_vh> I'll try that :)
Oct 04 23:43:59 <ShadowJK> actually im just padding one side of battery bay right now
Oct 04 23:44:09 <ShadowJK> to elevate battery away from sim holder
Oct 04 23:47:02 <pupnik> lcuk: unfortunately the market is not aligned with my tastes in portables.  1000-1500mAh batteries with omap3 class SOCs are about 3x too small for me.  I want a real full-day and that means 3000+ mAh
Oct 04 23:47:55 <pupnik> there are a few guys who agree with my priorities in terms of power vs battery, and that's the openpandora guys
Oct 04 23:49:49 * ShadowJK is using 2400mAh battery with n900 and it's not enough for comfortably streaming music during a day at work
Oct 04 23:50:29 <jaska> o.O? theres a larger battery for n900? where?
Oct 04 23:51:13 <ShadowJK> mugen power
Oct 04 23:51:30 <jaska> hmm, i wonder if i can get them in .fi somehow
Oct 04 23:51:50 <ShadowJK> sure
Oct 04 23:51:57 <ShadowJK> they ship worldwide
Oct 04 23:52:20 <ShadowJK> if you have a cc
Oct 04 23:52:21 <jaska> i presume thatd require a credit card
Oct 04 23:52:28 <SpeedEvil> I've been pondering making a backup pack.
Oct 04 23:52:57 <ShadowJK> or paypal
Oct 04 23:53:25 <pupnik> why not make a n901 with 1500mAh battery, n810 speakers and a 4-row keyboard...
Oct 04 23:53:49 <loufoque_> what is the name of the N900 successor and where can I find info about it?
Oct 04 23:53:51 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, make a magazine that can take BJ-4L
Oct 04 23:53:57 <lcuk> BL-5J
Oct 04 23:53:59 <lcuk> even
Oct 04 23:54:12 <ShadowJK> There is no info about a successor
Oct 04 23:54:13 <lcuk> then you load that into n900
Oct 04 23:55:09 <ds3> much rather have the old 800 style w/o the keyboard. just a handful of buttons
Oct 04 23:55:12 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: simple answer? Making hw is fsckng expensive
Oct 04 23:55:21 <luke-jr_> ShadowJK: liar :P
Oct 04 23:55:35 <luke-jr_> loufoque_: IIRC engadget had a teardown
Oct 04 23:55:39 <ShadowJK> luke-jr, there are rumours and speculation, sure
Oct 04 23:55:41 <FIQ|n900> i prefer having a keyboard than not having it
Oct 04 23:55:42 <lcuk> ds3, everyone has their own
Oct 04 23:55:45 <lcuk> favourite
Oct 04 23:56:06 <loufoque_> lcuk: i thought they said it would be out very soon
Oct 04 23:56:10 <lcuk> I would rather just run same apps on all of them
Oct 04 23:56:11 <ShadowJK> luke-jr, and didnt that turn out to be e7 or c6-01 or something?
Oct 04 23:56:11 <loufoque_> nokia N9 i think it was called
Oct 04 23:56:32 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277333
Oct 04 23:56:46 <lcuk> ds3, interested to see how well liqbase would run on iphone hardware for instance
Oct 04 23:57:02 <ds3> lcuk:L yes
Oct 04 23:57:08 <ds3> s/L //
Oct 04 23:57:09 <infobot> ds3 meant: lcuk:yes
Oct 04 23:57:10 <FIQ|n900> 4-row-keyb :D
Oct 04 23:57:15 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: thanks, good answer
Oct 04 23:57:17 <luke-jr_> pfft 4
Oct 04 23:57:19 <lcuk> for people like pupnik who like the pandora, I would like same things there
Oct 04 23:57:25 <luke-jr_> I want at least 6
Oct 04 23:57:28 <ShadowJK> jaska: http://shop.eten.hu/mugen-power-nokia-n900-2400mah-extended-replacement-battery-with-battery-door.html
Oct 04 23:57:35 <ds3> keyboard is nice but buttons are more usable
Oct 04 23:57:48 <luke-jr_> ds3: nonsense
Oct 04 23:57:57 <luke-jr_> touchscreen can replace buttons easily
Oct 04 23:57:59 <FIQ|n900> 6 would be useful indeed if done right on such a small device
Oct 04 23:58:00 <ds3> keep the 5Mpixel camera but put it back on that pop out thing
Oct 04 23:58:02 <lcuk> my pocket loox had foot buttons like the n800
Oct 04 23:58:09 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: molds for a 3 parts case are ~100k$
Oct 04 23:58:12 <ds3> luke-jr: screen is too small for that
Oct 04 23:58:15 <luke-jr_> FIQ|n900: half the problem with N900 is that it's too effing small
Oct 04 23:58:25 <ds3> I sorely miss teh D-pad
Oct 04 23:58:30 <FIQ|n900> well
Oct 04 23:58:37 <FIQ|n900> as long as it fits in the pocket
Oct 04 23:58:49 <luke-jr_> FIQ|n900: C760 fit in my pocket
Oct 04 23:58:52 <FIQ|n900> and has phone+linux functionalty
Oct 04 23:58:55 <luke-jr_> and it was 2x the side of N810
Oct 04 23:58:55 <FIQ|n900> i'm happy
Oct 04 23:59:04 <FIQ|n900> uh
Oct 04 23:59:05 <jaska> it probably wont fit in my old htc-p4350 belt case with that tho
Oct 04 23:59:10 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: then you need keyboard, PCB (which never is right on first 3 takes), FCC cert (another 100k) etc etc
Oct 04 23:59:13 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: look at all the 'silly looking' plastic around the n900 battery... do you think a bigger one would have been possible?
Oct 04 23:59:13 <FIQ|n900> that was a big pocket
Oct 04 23:59:14 <lcuk> the N8 would be cool to run on
Oct 04 23:59:20 <ds3> luke-jr_: as in the Z?
Oct 04 23:59:21 <lcuk> as would the n97
Oct 04 23:59:37 <luke-jr_> ds3: yes
Oct 04 23:59:47 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: nope, not significantly. Most of that silly looking plastic actually has a function
Oct 04 23:59:50 <luke-jr_> N810 and N900 fit in my pocket and had room to spare for other stuff
Oct 05 00:00:01 <luke-jr_> which is nice, but not as nice as a quality handheld
Oct 05 00:00:12 <ds3> round up funding, let's build one :D
Oct 05 00:00:41 * ShadowJK remembers having N810, cellphone and gps receiver in one pocket
Oct 05 00:00:46 <jaska> hmm, need to look into finding that 2400mAh bat in .fi tomorrow.. its 3 in the morning :D
Oct 05 00:00:55 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: cargopants
Oct 05 00:00:59 <luke-jr_> ds3: as I've said many a time, whoever makes a handheld fitting my needs gets my business (~$800)
Oct 05 00:01:12 <jaska> being a large person with large pockets helps.. used to carry a 8.9" display laptop
Oct 05 00:01:20 <ds3> luke-jr: only problem is NRE's are > 20x that :(
Oct 05 00:01:29 <luke-jr_> IMO, a handheld should fit comfortably in a shirt pocket
Oct 05 00:01:34 <ds3> making it isn't that hard
Oct 05 00:01:35 <luke-jr_> N900 is so small, it falls out far too easy
Oct 05 00:01:42 <luke-jr_> NRE?
Oct 05 00:01:57 <ds3> non-recurring engineering costs...basically R&D expenses
Oct 05 00:02:03 <luke-jr_> ah
Oct 05 00:02:06 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: in my jeans the pocket holds a whole 0.5L beer bottle, though it's not really comfortable - and looks somewhat err obscene
Oct 05 00:02:10 <wmarone> shirt pocket... for electronic devices?
Oct 05 00:02:20 <luke-jr_> ds3: also, it doesn't need to include software ;)
Oct 05 00:02:25 <luke-jr_> wmarone: why not?
Oct 05 00:02:30 <wmarone> isn't that where your pens go? ;)
Oct 05 00:02:37 <pupnik> what's your ideal tablet/phone screen size?
Oct 05 00:02:40 <luke-jr_> wmarone: pens? for what?
Oct 05 00:02:41 <ds3> luke-jr: I am not including software costs
Oct 05 00:02:46 <luke-jr_> pupnik: between 4" and 5"
Oct 05 00:02:50 <pupnik> same here luke-jr_
Oct 05 00:02:56 <ds3> not like there are suitable software floating around :/
Oct 05 00:03:04 <luke-jr_> ds3: I'd probably just run Gentoo :P
Oct 05 00:03:14 <ds3> luke-jr: I just happen to have a 4.8" LCD....
Oct 05 00:03:39 <jaska> hmm, jeans back pocket easily holds 1.5 liter bottle :)
Oct 05 00:03:42 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: 5'
Oct 05 00:03:43 <pupnik> all the older folks in my area think n900 screen is *WAYYY* too small and high DPI
Oct 05 00:03:59 <jaska> albeit one cant sit when its there
Oct 05 00:04:04 <ds3> the outdoor visible LCD is quite nice
Oct 05 00:04:14 <wmarone> high dpi can be accounted for, though I would like a larger physical screen
Oct 05 00:04:20 * b-man_ wonders what luke-jr_ would do without Gentoo :)
Oct 05 00:04:27 <wmarone> (with a corresponding resolution increase)
Oct 05 00:04:44 <pupnik> try switching between n800/n810 and n900  - and back again... see how the experience feels
Oct 05 00:04:52 <DocScrutinizer> well, a lot of people here would have preferred N810 form factor for N900, but alas the N900 is 'somehwat' designed for mass market
Oct 05 00:05:36 <ShadowJK> meanwhile, market today makes N810 look more uptodate than N900, for form-factor :)
Oct 05 00:05:47 <DocScrutinizer> yeah :-P
Oct 05 00:05:48 <luke-jr_> b-man_: beofre Gentoo I used LFS
Oct 05 00:06:11 <luke-jr_> pupnik: high DPI never hurts. definitely too small tho
Oct 05 00:06:50 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: doing that frequently
Oct 05 00:07:02 <luke-jr_> ShadowJK: N810 also has a 4G version :P
Oct 05 00:07:11 <ShadowJK> heh
Oct 05 00:07:14 <DocScrutinizer> yeah sure, luke-jr_
Oct 05 00:07:32 <ShadowJK> i dont think it actually would work with my wimax though :)
Oct 05 00:07:44 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: for me, going back to the N810 screen always causes this "aah, relief!" feeling
Oct 05 00:07:51 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Oct 05 00:08:11 <DocScrutinizer> the weird feeling as if the screen is 4 times as large
Oct 05 00:09:03 <DocScrutinizer> and also I like the N810 kbd better, completely contrasting common sense
Oct 05 00:09:22 <ShadowJK> well, the bigger and more keys are nicer
Oct 05 00:09:28 <DocScrutinizer> well, the symbols mapping is weird
Oct 05 00:09:40 <ShadowJK> but the shape and material of n900 keys are better
Oct 05 00:09:45 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Oct 05 00:12:08 <luke-jr_> they are?
Oct 05 00:12:15 <pupnik> oh much
Oct 05 00:12:26 <luke-jr_> oh well
Oct 05 00:12:29 <pupnik> the higher curve, plus the better defined click-point makes typing much better
Oct 05 00:12:32 <luke-jr_> nothing compares to C760 :P
Oct 05 00:12:33 <ShadowJK> mostly I like N810 keyboard because it takes less than average 2 keypresses per char to enter an ip
Oct 05 00:12:47 <luke-jr_> ShadowJK++
Oct 05 00:12:57 <luke-jr_> to enter IPs, I tend to enter numbers, then go back and add .
Oct 05 00:13:16 <pupnik> just take those n900 sized keys and give me a full laptop keyboard layout :)
Oct 05 00:13:21 <pupnik> 6 rows :P
Oct 05 00:13:28 <nox-> zaurus :)
Oct 05 00:14:02 <luke-jr_> N900's small keys wouldn't be so bad if they were more distant :p
Oct 05 00:14:48 <nox-> actually i usually only have problems with that when having to press two adjacent ones at once
Oct 05 00:15:04 <luke-jr_> nox-: not typing one-handed?
Oct 05 00:15:11 <luke-jr_> that is, using one hand to hold it and type
Oct 05 00:15:22 <luke-jr_> (eg, when driving)
Oct 05 00:15:28 <nox-> hm true i rarely do that...
Oct 05 00:16:14 <ShadowJK> you could steer with your knee
Oct 05 00:18:37 <pupnik> well if you kept the n900 size keys, you could fit a full freakin laptop keyboard into the n810 case
Oct 05 00:19:04 <pupnik> man, i wish we could manufacture stuff without these moulds
Oct 05 00:19:30 <pupnik> a spray-plastic printer or smth :/
Oct 05 00:19:45 <DocScrutinizer> completely off topic: what's the name of our solar system, our sun, our earth? I mean, you got (maybe) a star/sun/system called Aldebaran, and it might have planets that are usually called Aldebaran-1, *-2, *-3 etc. So is our Earth called Sol-3, or maybe our sun is called Earth? or what?
Oct 05 00:20:43 <luke-jr_> DocScrutinizer: IIRC, the name Sol is unofficial and just popular scifi :/
Oct 05 00:21:02 <luke-jr_> and names are what people call things
Oct 05 00:21:25 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, so what is our system called in a map of the galaxy?
Oct 05 00:21:50 <luke-jr_> Solar?
Oct 05 00:21:59 <luke-jr_> maybe that's where "Sol" came from :o
Oct 05 00:22:23 <luke-jr_> could be Central or something tho since the universe orbits Earth
Oct 05 00:22:27 <babsher_> terran system?
Oct 05 00:22:34 <babsher_> or that is what it is in star trek
Oct 05 00:23:33 <ShadowJK> sol is more sensible than terran system
Oct 05 00:23:39 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, probably our sun's name is Sol Terrae
Oct 05 00:23:58 <DocScrutinizer> sounds odd
Oct 05 00:24:06 <luke-jr_> at least Sol, by popular usage
Oct 05 00:24:17 <DocScrutinizer> I prefer to think I'm living on Sol-3
Oct 05 00:24:27 <luke-jr_> unlike people, the sun has no free will to decide what it wants to be called :P
Oct 05 00:24:57 <pupnik> http://pandorapress.net/2010/09/30/two-laps-of-the-sun/  << this is exactly what waiting for openpandora feels like :)
Oct 05 00:25:11 <luke-jr_> completely off-topic: why do people feel the need to subject everyone else to their national laws?
Oct 05 00:25:20 <ShadowJK> "The Sun is currently traveling through the Local Interstellar Cloud in the Local Bubble zone, within the inner rim of the Orion Arm of the Milky Way galaxy."
Oct 05 00:25:43 <ShadowJK> it's all pretty sun-centric :)
Oct 05 00:26:07 <DocScrutinizer> sun==Sol, hmm
Oct 05 00:26:11 <ShadowJK> I imagine they'll figure out the naming when ambiguity starts beoming and issue
Oct 05 00:26:15 <ShadowJK> an*
Oct 05 00:26:16 <luke-jr_> currently the entire human population could fit in the state of Texas comfortably, so why couldn't we have a few thousand nations which citizens all agree with (to a reasonable extent) their own nations' laws?
Oct 05 00:26:34 <luke-jr_> eg, why have competing political parties when the country can just be split in two direcitons?
Oct 05 00:26:47 <luke-jr_> and why do people try to invent an "international law" to force their rules on other nations?
Oct 05 00:27:44 <DocScrutinizer> why have nations at all?
Oct 05 00:27:56 <luke-jr_> DocScrutinizer: because anarchy is inherently flawed?
Oct 05 00:28:07 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, really?
Oct 05 00:28:10 <luke-jr_> yes
Oct 05 00:28:14 <luke-jr_> people are naturally evil
Oct 05 00:28:33 <DocScrutinizer> and some of those goven and rule my life :-S
Oct 05 00:28:34 <pupnik> that's also called "the hobbsian myth"
Oct 05 00:28:36 <luke-jr_> anarchy could only remotely work if people were naturally good
Oct 05 00:29:00 <ShadowJK> "Its formal name in the English language is, per the International Astronomical Union, the Sun (capitalized as a proper noun).[172]  The Latin  name Sol, for the Sun god of the same name, pronounced /ˈsɒl/ (rhyming with doll) in English, is widely known but not common in general English language use; the adjectival form is the related word solar.[173][174]  "Sol" is, however, the modern word for "Sun" in many other languages"
Oct 05 00:29:44 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: :-))
Oct 05 00:30:31 * luke-jr_ votes to use Sol
Oct 05 00:31:03 <luke-jr_> on another off-topic, is there a simple way to package fonts for Maemo?
Oct 05 00:31:18 <FIQ|n900> sv-sun=sol :d
Oct 05 00:31:18 <luke-jr_> eg, without a whole cross-compiler setup
Oct 05 00:31:46 * FIQ|n900 wants dejavu sans mono as a font possible to chose in various menus, including xchat
Oct 05 00:32:17 <wmarone> hm
Oct 05 00:32:44 <wmarone> 800x480 at less than 7" is a pain to find in a non-raw-panel setup :/
Oct 05 00:33:54 <luke-jr_> Dejavu isn't free
Oct 05 00:34:07 <luke-jr_> but I would like my Console font
Oct 05 00:34:20 <FIQ|n900> it isn't?
Oct 05 00:34:29 <luke-jr_> not completely
Oct 05 00:34:31 <ShadowJK> oh wow, I switched xchat to droid sans mono
Oct 05 00:34:44 <ShadowJK> and it's perfectly readable at size 8
Oct 05 00:34:47 <luke-jr_> Dejavu is "free" like Microsoft's "free" licneses, IMO
Oct 05 00:35:05 <FIQ|n900> droid sans mono is nice
Oct 05 00:35:11 <FIQ|n900> but i prefer dejavu
Oct 05 00:35:18 <luke-jr_> I prefer Console.
Oct 05 00:35:26 <luke-jr_> which is bitmap, but nice
Oct 05 00:35:31 <FIQ|n900> isn't console courier new?
Oct 05 00:35:35 <luke-jr_> no
Oct 05 00:35:43 <luke-jr_> afaik it was homegrown for KDE 3
Oct 05 00:35:45 <luke-jr_> and dropped with KDE 4
Oct 05 00:35:50 <FIQ|n900> ok
Oct 05 00:35:53 <luke-jr_> I've added a number of characters to my local copy
Oct 05 00:42:26 <nettworker> Can I send sms via ssh?
Oct 05 00:45:18 <pupnik> yes
Oct 05 00:47:51 <nettworker> pupnik: How?
Oct 05 00:48:35 <pupnik> go search... fmms or smth
Oct 05 00:48:54 <ShadowJK> no
Oct 05 00:49:03 <nettworker> fmms is for mms
Oct 05 00:49:04 <ShadowJK> fmms is for sending and receiving mms
Oct 05 00:49:10 <nettworker> I want to send a SMS
Oct 05 00:49:19 <nettworker> Via ssh
Oct 05 00:49:42 <nettworker> I saw the sms package, and I think that would be nice
Oct 05 00:50:14 <ieatlint> nettworker: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control
Oct 05 00:50:39 <ieatlint> there's instructions on how to do it on that page (dbus is your best option)
Oct 05 00:51:07 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS
Oct 05 00:51:30 <DocScrutinizer> oh, ieatlint was faster :-D
Oct 05 00:51:38 <ieatlint> :P
Oct 05 00:52:22 <DocScrutinizer> raster: ?? whats up?
Oct 05 00:52:36 <raster> DocScrutinizer: dook!
Oct 05 00:53:57 <nettworker> DocScrutinizer: I am too dumb to do that xD
Oct 05 01:01:09 <DocScrutinizer> nettworker: if I understand correctly, you'll get where you want, by entering: pnatd<CR>at<CR>at+cmgf=1<CR>at+cmgs="+4991155500011"<CR>this is a SMS to you, and I dunno if it works<^V><^V><^C>
Oct 05 01:01:24 <DocScrutinizer> s/where/what/
Oct 05 01:01:24 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: nettworker: if I understand correctly, you'll get what you want, by entering: pnatd<CR>at<CR>at+cmgf=1<CR>at+cmgs="+4991155500011"<CR>this is a SMS to you, and I dunno if it works<^V><^V><^C>
Oct 05 01:03:55 <FIQ|n900> that was some line noise D:
Oct 05 01:03:56 <DocScrutinizer> or even >> echo -e 'at\rat+cmgf=1\rat+cmgs="+4991155500011"\rthis is a SMS to you, and I dunno if it works\026\026' | pnatd
Oct 05 01:04:26 <DocScrutinizer> ( s/<^V>/<^Z>/  in line 2 above)
Oct 05 01:05:03 <SpeedEvil> that doesn't work
Oct 05 01:05:14 <SpeedEvil> pnatd doesn't do SMS
Oct 05 01:05:33 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, so why is this example code there?
Oct 05 01:06:13 <SpeedEvil> oh - sorry
Oct 05 01:06:15 <DocScrutinizer> child = pexpect.spawn('pnatd');  child.send('at+cmgs="+XXXXXXX"\r');
Oct 05 01:06:54 * FIQ|n900 wants a 127.0.0.1-like phonenumber
Oct 05 01:07:06 <DocScrutinizer> for what?
Oct 05 01:07:13 <FIQ|n900> dunno
Oct 05 01:07:29 <FIQ|n900> would be pretty useless but still. D:
Oct 05 01:07:42 <DocScrutinizer> define please
Oct 05 01:07:57 <luke-jr_> sip://[::1]
Oct 05 01:07:59 <FIQ|n900> oh, nothing
Oct 05 01:08:28 <FIQ|n900> lol luke-jr
Oct 05 01:08:53 <DocScrutinizer> nah, no lol, perfectly ok, basically
Oct 05 01:09:08 <nettworker> ~/MyDocs $ pnatd <CR>at<CR>at+cmgf=1<CR>at+cmgs="+4799411160"<CR>this is a SMS to you, and I dunno if it works<^V><^Z><^C>
Oct 05 01:09:09 <infobot> that's too long, nettworker
Oct 05 01:09:11 <nettworker> -sh: syntax error: redirection unexpected
Oct 05 01:09:52 * DocScrutinizer sighs
Oct 05 01:09:54 <ShadowJK> you're supposed to replace <cr> with pressing enter
Oct 05 01:09:54 <FIQ|n900> infobot tried to parse it as a factoid :D
Oct 05 01:10:26 <DocScrutinizer> and ^Z by control+"Z"
Oct 05 01:11:05 <DocScrutinizer> and ^V is just wrong (lookup error in 'man ascii')
Oct 05 01:11:29 <luke-jr_> I bet ^Z is wrong too
Oct 05 01:11:34 <luke-jr_> probably ^C too
Oct 05 01:11:41 <DocScrutinizer> uhuh
Oct 05 01:11:44 <ieatlint> or just copy one of the 3 scripts on that wiki page and run it using python...
Oct 05 01:11:49 <luke-jr_> probably you just want ^D at the ned
Oct 05 01:11:52 <luke-jr_> end
Oct 05 01:12:00 <FIQ|n900> ooh
Oct 05 01:12:09 <ShadowJK> pnatd expects a real terminal
Oct 05 01:12:10 <FIQ|n900> man ascii=ascii table
Oct 05 01:12:14 <DocScrutinizer> probably child.send(chr(26)); isn't exactly ETX
Oct 05 01:12:23 <ShadowJK> and doesnt care about ^D
Oct 05 01:12:24 <nettworker> Oh fuck this, I use bluetooth
Oct 05 01:12:24 * FIQ|n900 didn't know that
Oct 05 01:12:31 <ShadowJK> it expects modem hangup or sth
Oct 05 01:13:13 <ieatlint> the ssms.py script looks simple and effective
Oct 05 01:13:31 <nettworker> Do I have to edit the script?
Oct 05 01:13:35 <nettworker> Or just run?
Oct 05 01:13:43 <nettworker> And do my phone have phyton?
Oct 05 01:13:48 <ieatlint> just run it
Oct 05 01:13:53 <ieatlint> and it will tell you how to use it
Oct 05 01:14:10 <DocScrutinizer> nettworker: you need to replace XXXXXXXX with your dest tel#
Oct 05 01:14:18 <DocScrutinizer> no it wont
Oct 05 01:14:34 <ieatlint> apparently it takes two command line arguments, so for instance to send a message to "999", "python ssms.py 999 'test message'"
Oct 05 01:14:54 <ieatlint> DocScrutinizer: the ssms.py has a help print message if run with no arguments
Oct 05 01:14:59 <DocScrutinizer> pffft, maybe the first or 3rd one
Oct 05 01:15:36 <DocScrutinizer> not the 14 line one starting with import pexpect
Oct 05 01:15:53 <DocScrutinizer> which obviously is the one I was referring to
Oct 05 01:15:59 <ieatlint> nah, the top one using qtmobility and calling itself ssms.py
Oct 05 01:16:27 <DocScrutinizer> meh, what am I doing here?
Oct 05 01:16:44 <ieatlint> not drinking enough
Oct 05 01:16:50 <DocScrutinizer> yes, exactly
Oct 05 01:17:18 <DocScrutinizer> alas I usually have no drinks on stash at home
Oct 05 01:17:33 <ieatlint> wtf... how'd you manage that?
Oct 05 01:17:45 <ieatlint> hopefully .de doesn't cut off alcohol sales at night then
Oct 05 01:17:55 <DocScrutinizer> you bet it does
Oct 05 01:18:28 <ieatlint> 2am like here? :(
Oct 05 01:18:38 <DocScrutinizer> 3:17
Oct 05 01:18:49 <ieatlint> wtf time is that
Oct 05 01:19:29 <DocScrutinizer> bad time for searching for a drink
Oct 05 01:19:46 <nettworker> DocScrutinizer: Go to amsterdam! They have 420 all nigth!
Oct 05 01:20:01 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Oct 05 01:20:51 <ieatlint> heh, pot was just decriminalised here
Oct 05 01:21:07 <nettworker> ieatlint: It is just decriminalised there too
Oct 05 01:21:09 <ieatlint> well, personal use amounts
Oct 05 01:21:14 <nettworker> Only legal place is Portugal
Oct 05 01:21:22 <nettworker> ieatlint: It is illegal in Amsterdam
Oct 05 01:22:09 <ieatlint> heh
Oct 05 01:22:16 <ieatlint> whatever.. i never touch the stuff myself
Oct 05 01:22:21 <nettworker> It is just acepted
Oct 05 01:23:00 <nettworker> ieatlint: Neither do I
Oct 05 01:23:06 <nettworker> I use it the same way I use alcohol
Oct 05 01:23:09 <nettworker> I dont inhale xD
Oct 05 01:23:31 <ieatlint> well, i drink alcohol.. i do not drink pot
Oct 05 01:23:35 * luke-jr_ is all for outlawing pot, alcohol, and caffeine
Oct 05 01:23:50 <ieatlint> or inhale it, ingest it, or otherwise cause it a product of it to enter my bloodstream
Oct 05 01:23:53 * doc|home is all for outlawing silly laws
Oct 05 01:24:00 <ieatlint> luke-jr_: damn mormons
Oct 05 01:24:12 <babsher_> is there a good tutorial out there for meego and kickstart scripts?
Oct 05 01:24:13 * nettworker is all for oulawing fat, fat people, stupid food, and reffined sugar
Oct 05 01:24:16 <ieatlint> also, you forgot dancing on your list of things to ban
Oct 05 01:24:22 <nettworker> babsher_: #meego
Oct 05 01:24:25 <doc|home> ieatlint: and the french
Oct 05 01:24:35 <ieatlint> nah, french is a reasonable thing to ban
Oct 05 01:24:38 <nettworker> luke-jr_: Horsebackriding should be banned
Oct 05 01:24:38 <doc|home> heh
Oct 05 01:24:58 <doc|home> nettworker: why not go all the way... what are horses even good for anyway?
Oct 05 01:25:04 <babsher_> everyone at #meego is dead
Oct 05 01:25:08 <luke-jr_> those aren't chemically addictive AFAIK
Oct 05 01:25:09 <ieatlint> doc|home: gelatin
Oct 05 01:25:18 <doc|home> ieatlint: see fat
Oct 05 01:25:19 <nettworker> doc|home: And you can get addicted to horses!
Oct 05 01:25:28 <nettworker> luke-jr_: Reffined suger is, also fat.
Oct 05 01:25:31 <ieatlint> fat is delicious
Oct 05 01:25:41 <ieatlint> nah, sugar is actually non-fat in itself
Oct 05 01:25:47 <nettworker> luke-jr_: I have never seen anyone being able to stop eating fat...
Oct 05 01:25:55 <luke-jr_> I hate fat
Oct 05 01:26:02 <nettworker> 99% of the worlds population is addicted to fat
Oct 05 01:26:03 <ieatlint> this anti-bacon sentiment is alarming to me
Oct 05 01:26:06 <luke-jr_> and being unwilling is not being unable
Oct 05 01:26:08 <nettworker> Ban it instead of drugs
Oct 05 01:26:18 <luke-jr_> chemical addiction != addiction
Oct 05 01:26:35 <nettworker> Only a few people are addicted to drugs (and the cause of addiction is phsycologic problems, treat them, dont jail sick people)
Oct 05 01:26:50 <nettworker> luke-jr_: Banning drugs is like banning depression, pointless and does more harm than good.
Oct 05 01:27:00 <luke-jr_> nettworker: not pointless
Oct 05 01:27:11 <luke-jr_> people profit off the chemical dependency of others'
Oct 05 01:27:11 * ieatlint votes we do not get into a drug discussions here
Oct 05 01:27:22 <ieatlint> it's worse than the political ones
Oct 05 01:27:25 <luke-jr_> and convince people to get addicted
Oct 05 01:27:40 <doc|home> luke-jr_: stupid people will always do stupid things, no matter what you ban
Oct 05 01:27:43 <luke-jr_> I am starting withdrawl now, actually
Oct 05 01:27:53 <luke-jr_> doc|home: everyone is stupid at some point
Oct 05 01:28:03 <doc|home> luke-jr_: and must be responsible for that themselves
Oct 05 01:28:27 <nettworker> luke-jr_: You can use the same arguments to ban depression as to ban drugs. Depression kills people, ruins families, makes you stop taking care of yourself, and is bad for your health. It even kills people, far more people than drugs. If you ban it less people would be depressed and less people would get harmed by it. Except jail doesnt remove psychologic problems or discourage people from getting them. They only hide them bether.
Oct 05 01:28:40 <luke-jr_> people shouldn't have to be exposed to stuff like this
Oct 05 01:29:03 <luke-jr_> nettworker: you can't sell depression or market it to chilren
Oct 05 01:29:03 <nettworker> luke-jr_: What stuff?
Oct 05 01:29:15 <luke-jr_> nettworker: chemical addictives
Oct 05 01:29:24 <doc|home> luke-jr_: banning it never means they're not exposed to it. See war on drugs
Oct 05 01:29:58 <nettworker> luke-jr_: If you have haf a mind, you can prevent getting adicted. You cant remove drugs, if you in an ideal society could it migth be a pont. But why give the mafia the money?
Oct 05 01:30:13 <babsher_> drugs really are not bad it is just how you use them that matters.
Oct 05 01:30:27 <nettworker> And addiction has a cause, it is not the chemical. Glue is legal, still people doesnt snort it every day. People know it is bad.
Oct 05 01:30:33 <luke-jr_> nettworker: you can't prevent chemical addition except by avoiding consuming it
Oct 05 01:30:43 <ieatlint> ok, despite this truly interesting and productive debate, i'm going to go get some food
Oct 05 01:30:45 <ieatlint> and maybe beer
Oct 05 01:30:49 <ieatlint> delicious beer
Oct 05 01:31:00 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr_: WHAT? you can not sell depression? Tell that to BILD newspaper
Oct 05 01:31:07 <doc|home> luke-jr_: so, how is it our responsibility/right to protect idiots from themselves?
Oct 05 01:31:09 <nettworker> luke-jr_: I can use crystal meth once a month and not get addicted. I can smoke heroin every third day, I can do valium on a weekly basis.
Oct 05 01:31:18 <nettworker> luke-jr_: Limit the usage
Oct 05 01:31:35 <ieatlint> be sure to let us know what conclusion you guys come to on how the world should handle drugs
Oct 05 01:31:37 <luke-jr_> doc|home: it's the government's
Oct 05 01:31:40 <ieatlint> i'm very anxious to hear
Oct 05 01:31:51 <luke-jr_> nettworker: moderation makes a good argument.
Oct 05 01:32:02 <doc|home> luke-jr_: it's not though. It's none of their business.
Oct 05 01:32:09 <luke-jr_> doc|home: it is.
Oct 05 01:32:19 <nettworker> ieatlint: Legalise everything, sell it at pharmacies. And educate the people. In addition you should treat psychologic problems and treat addicts.
Oct 05 01:32:28 <doc|home> luke-jr_: what a person does with their body is that person's responsibility. Look at the fiasco that was prohibition and is the drug war.
Oct 05 01:32:49 <babsher_> the war on drugs is just a big jobs program
Oct 05 01:32:52 <luke-jr_> it only turned out a fiasco for other reasons
Oct 05 01:32:57 <nettworker> luke-jr_: And how can I know how to moderate myself? Education, I need to be able to make an informed choice. I don't need the goverment to take that choive for me.
Oct 05 01:32:59 <doc|home> luke-jr_: it's a fiasco nonetheless
Oct 05 01:33:07 <babsher_> the amount of money that the spend is gigantic
Oct 05 01:33:15 <luke-jr_> nettworker: education takes time
Oct 05 01:33:26 <doc|home> luke-jr_: I say these things as a person who doesn't drink, smoke or do any drugs and things doing them is stupid.
Oct 05 01:33:32 <doc|home> things/thinks
Oct 05 01:33:33 <ieatlint> nettworker: note that i have family members with a history of vicodin, heroin and valium addiction, an aunt and uncle who run a rehab clinic, and i live in a city filled with homeless people with addiction problems -- your arguments are invalid to me, rebutted by the reality that i see daily
Oct 05 01:33:40 <luke-jr_> modern society introduces chemical addictives into children's diets earlier than age 4
Oct 05 01:33:50 <nettworker> luke-jr_: Can you point to a single country that have had any luck with banning drugs?
Oct 05 01:34:02 <doc|home> luke-jr_: modern society? I think you mean parents
Oct 05 01:34:19 <luke-jr_> nettworker: I can't point to a single modern country that operates responably
Oct 05 01:34:37 <luke-jr_> doc|home: who make up modern society
Oct 05 01:34:38 <nettworker> ieatlint: Why did they start taking the drugs in the first place?
Oct 05 01:34:57 <doc|home> luke-jr_: individuals, who make choices
Oct 05 01:35:03 <nettworker> luke-jr_: How can you ban drugs? I can think of at least 15 things in my house I could get high off...
Oct 05 01:35:04 <ieatlint> anyway, i'm actually off to get food... tschüß
Oct 05 01:35:16 <luke-jr_> nettworker: getting high != chemical addiction
Oct 05 01:35:27 <luke-jr_> I'm sure there are countless ways to get high without getting addicted
Oct 05 01:35:37 <doc|home> luke-jr_: the thing is, what you think is responsible may be different to what I think is responsible. Why do you have the right to say what is responsible for other people?
Oct 05 01:36:08 <johnx> sex can be addictive. let's ban it
Oct 05 01:36:10 <nettworker> luke-jr_: So why does someone risk getting addicted? Certanly a normal healthy teen with knowledge wouldn't get him/herself addicted to heroin.
Oct 05 01:36:33 <luke-jr_> doc|home: government has that power because it is delegated to it by God
Oct 05 01:36:34 <johnx> nettworker, agree on horse riding
Oct 05 01:36:38 <nettworker> luke-jr_: May it be that the cynical drug dealers misinforms and tries to sell stronger drugs?
Oct 05 01:36:41 <doc|home> luke-jr_: god? are you joking me?!
Oct 05 01:36:57 <nettworker> johnx: WHat about anal sex? It is also mpre dangerous as cannabis
Oct 05 01:36:58 <luke-jr_> nettworker: the problem is people addicted younger
Oct 05 01:37:03 <johnx> doc|home, no. he's trolling you :)
Oct 05 01:37:04 <doc|home> luke-jr_: what if I don't believe in your god? you still have a right to dictate rules to me via that government?
Oct 05 01:37:15 <luke-jr_> doc|home: God still exists, even if fools deny it.
Oct 05 01:37:25 <doc|home> johnx: I've heard weirder things uttered on this network, fully believed
Oct 05 01:37:30 <nettworker> luke-jr_: If they sold it at a pharmacy it wouldnt be drug dealers selling it on the street and exponating people too it
Oct 05 01:37:36 <doc|home> luke-jr_: ooook then. I'm going to go over here now ---->
Oct 05 01:37:45 <nettworker> luke-jr_: In a typical day I get offered drugs three times.
Oct 05 01:37:45 <luke-jr_> government obtains its power from God, and has a duty to recognize Him as king
Oct 05 01:38:17 <johnx> luke-jr, you misspelled "flying spaghetti monster" as "God". It's funny 'cause you seem to care a lot about grammar and spelling
Oct 05 01:38:23 <doc|home> haha
Oct 05 01:39:05 <luke-jr_> my baby is crying. DLH to the rescue
Oct 05 01:39:07 <luke-jr_> bbl
Oct 05 01:39:10 <johnx> nettworker, probably we should just simplify it as 'any act or substance that can alter moods'
Oct 05 01:39:45 <nettworker> johnx: That is the law in Norway. They can with the law, seize water if it gets sent over the border.
Oct 05 01:40:10 <doc|home> nettworker: meh, in most countries they just change the laws if they want to do such things.
Oct 05 01:40:38 <johnx> I can just imagine the careful legalese that allows normal weather patterns to cross Norway's borders :)
Oct 05 01:40:57 <DocScrutinizer> johnx: damn this definition, that'll include just about everything, at least for me
Oct 05 01:41:01 <nettworker> Why cant you see that too legalise everything would make the problem smaler+
Oct 05 01:41:02 <nettworker> ?
Oct 05 01:41:10 <nettworker> All the money could go to rehab
Oct 05 01:41:14 <johnx> DocScrutinizer, communicating is probably in the list as well
Oct 05 01:41:32 <nettworker> We would have rehab for every third inhabitant. We could rehab people before they got a drug problem!
Oct 05 01:42:09 <johnx> are you advocating pro-active mental healthcare? what are you, some kinda pinko hippy?
Oct 05 01:42:30 <pupnik> pink
Oct 05 01:42:34 <DocScrutinizer> nettworker: I fully support your point
Oct 05 01:44:43 <nettworker> johnx: Yes, treat people before they get sick! People that are likley to get psychologic problems should be treated before they show any symptoms.
Oct 05 01:45:32 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, now my support starts to fade somewhat
Oct 05 01:45:45 * pupnik flanges nettworker 
Oct 05 01:46:11 <nettworker> Well that isnt my view on drugs, but I think everyone that wants someone to talk to (a professional) should get one.
Oct 05 01:46:32 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, that sounds better
Oct 05 01:47:48 <nettworker> Yeo
Oct 05 01:47:50 <nettworker> Yep*
Oct 05 01:48:25 * nox- agrees that prohibition usually only makes matters worse
Oct 05 01:49:04 <DocScrutinizer> btw a friend of mine who is streetworker of a NGO helping junkies, has completely same POV - as that's the POV of almost every sane NGO and individuals really involved in that topic on a scientific or analytic way
Oct 05 01:49:23 <nettworker> NGO? POV?
Oct 05 01:49:39 <DocScrutinizer> non governmental organization,
Oct 05 01:49:42 <DocScrutinizer> ~pov
Oct 05 01:49:43 <infobot> Point Of View
Oct 05 01:50:32 <nettworker> I think it makes sence. But the availebility of treatment to abusers is important. Although I think it should remain optional, as long as you're not hurting someone else than yourself.
Oct 05 01:52:18 <DocScrutinizer> as is with any other help you may search for or refuse, from society. Like diagnostics and treatment of cancer, smoking, alcohol addiction, sec addiction, being fat, depressive...
Oct 05 01:52:58 <DocScrutinizer> -c+x
Oct 05 01:57:46 <pupnik> hanging around IRC or internet
Oct 05 01:58:31 <nettworker> DocScrutinizer: I want help for sex adiction! It would be great to meet a bunch of nymphomaniacs.
Oct 05 02:00:06 <johnx> lcuk2, hey. did you hilight me a couple hours ago?
Oct 05 02:26:44 <pupnik> i need a blender scene with woods, hils, creek, rocks,
Oct 05 02:26:48 <pupnik> shrubs
Oct 05 02:26:59 <johnx> I have a blender
Oct 05 02:27:10 <johnx> you could make a milkshake
Oct 05 02:27:37 <johnx> not sure about fitting a creek or hills in it. also: don't put rocks in a blender. learned that one the hard way ...
Oct 05 02:52:58 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJpt6JC4Qks   homemade flight simulator... ....
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 05 02:59:57 2010