**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 08 02:59:57 2010 Oct 08 03:40:03 hey, two quick questions Oct 08 03:40:12 1, how do you turn off the camera sound in a nokia n900 Oct 08 03:40:20 2, what's the default device lock code Oct 08 03:40:29 i've tried 000, 0000, 1111, 1234, 0 Oct 08 03:43:28 hey, can we get acoustic modem connections going over mic/speaker? Oct 08 03:44:07 bell 103, bell 202 ? or something made for acoustic applications? Oct 08 03:44:53 MrPPS: camera sound is stored as a .wav file that you can discover on the filesystem Oct 08 03:46:59 pupnik_: thanks :) Oct 08 03:59:46 MrPPS: camera is silent on profile "silent" afaik. also you can check if >>IroN900:~# play-sound /usr/share/sounds/camera_snd_title_1.wav<< is the audio file you might want to replace by a 0 byte one. Lock code is 12345 afaik Oct 08 04:17:05 DocScrutinizer: thanks for the help :) Oct 08 04:17:11 yw Oct 08 04:21:32 pupnik_: via speaker&mic I'm sure this won't work. Via headset connector there should be no particular problem in running a softmodem Oct 08 04:24:37 pupnik_: http://bellard.org/linmodem.html Oct 08 04:31:40 does fcamera save pictures somewhere weird by default? Oct 08 04:49:15 anybody want a 2.2GHz 2GB 160GB MB for $300? Oct 08 04:49:26 macbook Oct 08 04:49:37 stolen! Oct 08 04:49:48 Macer: link? Oct 08 04:50:02 no.. mine lol Oct 08 04:50:18 really? why? Oct 08 04:50:33 i dont really have a link for it.. i want to get a smaller netbook Oct 08 04:50:45 where are you? :) Oct 08 04:50:53 it is in good shape Oct 08 04:51:01 and has snow leopard on it Oct 08 04:51:07 chicago Oct 08 04:51:31 too awkward. I'm in canuckistan Oct 08 04:51:37 would be tempted otherwise Oct 08 04:52:05 lmao. well. i can ship it... i supose i can ebay it too Oct 08 04:52:17 but figure i would ask here first Oct 08 04:52:21 it's a white one, right? Oct 08 04:52:30 no Oct 08 04:52:34 black one Oct 08 04:52:44 hmmm Oct 08 04:52:53 no, must resist. thanks though :) Oct 08 04:53:15 lol. ok ;) well.. im sure i can find someone to buy it here Oct 08 04:53:50 maybe i will just go to uic an find a studebt to buy it.. it really is in good condition Oct 08 04:53:57 student Oct 08 04:54:29 i just started to try to sell it today tho so meh. people suck up apple products pretty quick :) Oct 08 04:54:41 yeah Oct 08 04:57:30 Macer: isn't it a bit late for USA and a bit early in the morning for Europe? Oct 08 04:59:37 it is midnight in chicago Oct 08 05:00:02 if you considert that late then yes ;) im a night owl Oct 08 05:04:35 me too, so time for bed for me - dawn outside Oct 08 05:11:25 Oct 08 05:11:36 Sooooooo.... PR1.3 today? =) Oct 08 05:11:50 * luke-jr_ hides PR1.3 from RST38h Oct 08 05:37:23 RST38h: heh, why did it take so long until you update to 1.3? was therema blocker keeping you from it for 6 weeks? :-P Oct 08 06:24:35 Perhaps a warning on tmo regarding backup-menu is in order? Oct 08 07:17:27 Hi all Oct 08 07:18:53 Anyone know why the forum DB keeps going down? Oct 08 07:19:29 it's the riot caused after the flash 10.1 thing Oct 08 07:19:32 probably ;) Oct 08 07:20:27 I missed it; what, did they say it's never coming out? Oct 08 07:20:31 nah Oct 08 07:20:32 sec Oct 08 07:21:08 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=833350#post833350 Oct 08 07:21:11 start from there and go on Oct 08 07:24:07 Hm... Now where did I put that old TI login.... Oct 08 07:24:56 RobbieThe1st, hey, this has something to do with you I think: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-07.log.html#t2010-10-07T23:02:40 Oct 08 07:25:23 I saw it, in response to an email I got from one of Andrew Oct 08 07:25:35 RobbieThe1st, ok, nevermind then ;) Oct 08 07:26:35 Essentially, worst case, you have to flash to PR1.2 again. It happens on like 40% of N900s. Why? Probably bad blocks. I have a new version that should solve the problem, but no one has tested it for me yet. Oct 08 07:26:57 RobbieThe1st: you're writing directly to NAND? Oct 08 07:27:03 not nandwrite or nanderase? Oct 08 07:27:27 dd if=/myfile of=/dev/mtd5 bs=4096 or something like that Oct 08 07:27:38 .. no no no Oct 08 07:27:44 you'll bust people's ability to flash Oct 08 07:27:52 you need to look into mtd-utils Oct 08 07:27:55 Its worked so far... Oct 08 07:28:07 since it's happening for people, it's not Oct 08 07:28:17 But, actually, I was thinking in terms of working file-level with tar etc. Oct 08 07:28:22 you're basically screwing up the eraseblock information Oct 08 07:28:37 Stskeeps, sitrep? Oct 08 07:28:43 crashanddie: mm? Oct 08 07:28:47 Yea, I figured as much... is there a way to -read- an image going around those blocks also? Oct 08 07:28:54 what did I miss? Oct 08 07:29:00 crashanddie: in context of? Oct 08 07:29:10 Because even writing my images via the Nokia flasher doesn't work for some people Oct 08 07:29:15 Stskeeps, dead NAND Oct 08 07:29:33 crashanddie: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-07.log.html#t2010-10-07T23:02:40 Oct 08 07:29:35 crashanddie: backupmenu and even nokia care couldn't get someone's N900 back to life Oct 08 07:29:42 RobbieThe1st: take a look at mtd-utils' nand* tools Oct 08 07:29:43 Whos? Oct 08 07:29:49 mece, saw that, couldn't figure out the thread though Oct 08 07:29:54 RobbieThe1st: is in logs from last night afaik Oct 08 07:30:08 RobbieThe1st: we used those for initfs on n8x0 for ages, so they're safe Oct 08 07:31:06 I looked at the logs myself; couldn't see anything other than mohammadAG saying that someone complained about it "bricking". Which could mean needs to be flashed to factory default. Oct 08 07:31:16 Stskeeps: Got a manpage link or something? Oct 08 07:32:25 Y'know, I wish I'd known about some of this stuff earlier - its been like three months so far, and no one's suggested anything like mtdutils Oct 08 07:33:18 RobbieThe1st: take a look at the bootmenu code from n8x0 Oct 08 07:33:20 sec Oct 08 07:34:29 https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/bootmenu/install_bootmenu?revision=55&root=bootmenu&view=markup , search for flash_eraseall Oct 08 07:34:33 Stskeeps: Hm, just out of curiosity, where is the kernel stored? On a partition of the NAND, or on a seperate chip? Oct 08 07:34:33 and nandwrite Oct 08 07:34:37 partition of nand Oct 08 07:34:38 (n900) Oct 08 07:34:52 http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/nand.html <- How does that work then? Oct 08 07:35:01 there's a partition table in kernel Oct 08 07:35:21 and nolo takes care of eraseblocks etc Oct 08 07:38:22 Stskeeps: has there been more recent releases (yes, I've been hiding under a rock for the past few months) than the original meego one released? Oct 08 07:38:37 tybollt: didn't you see the recent video? Oct 08 07:38:37 :P Oct 08 07:39:04 Stskeeps: that was probably done by an insider w/ software not available to the public - yes? Oct 08 07:39:12 no Oct 08 07:39:26 fair enough - the video is in scrollback the last 24h? Oct 08 07:39:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWtMLs3j09U&feature=player_embedded Oct 08 07:39:38 thank you, sir Oct 08 07:39:47 touchscreen response we're looking into still, something's really fucked Oct 08 07:40:34 but the SGX bits are basically all there? Oct 08 07:40:51 well, the SGX bits in this particular video is a bit unstable so they're not in the release track for 1.1 Oct 08 07:40:59 but they're bloody fast when they do work Oct 08 07:41:12 fair enough Oct 08 07:41:27 isat a flying rabbit? How very monty python'esque ;) Oct 08 07:42:34 Stskeeps, is the "updated graphics driver" included in the 20101005 image? Oct 08 07:42:38 I have to say - the little anim it does when rotating the screen is very pleasing to the eye :) Oct 08 07:43:08 tybollt, I think the delay before rotating is a bit too long for my taste. Oct 08 07:43:30 mece: that's why stskeeps is here, so you can tell him directly ;) Oct 08 07:43:51 I'll have to see for myself though. writing the image to card as we sepak. Oct 08 07:44:04 me? I'd have to have it ina hand of me to form an opinion on that Oct 08 07:44:11 s/sepak/speak *mumble* *grumble*/ Oct 08 07:44:11 mece meant: I'll have to see for myself though. writing the image to card as we speak *mumble* *grumble*. Oct 08 07:44:33 mece: no, as i said, not on 1.1 release track :/ Oct 08 07:44:48 Stskeeps, ok then. Oct 08 07:45:25 mece: know enough to ssh in over usb? Oct 08 07:45:55 Stskeeps, dunno how to do it on this computer unfortunately (windows xp) Oct 08 07:46:51 mece: hmm :P Oct 08 07:47:08 mece: cos you need to push forth and back some pieces to upgrade Oct 08 07:48:21 * crashanddie shoots a rocket at Oracle Oct 08 07:48:29 ~lart Oracle Oct 08 07:48:29 * infobot takes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in Oracle's direction, hitting Oracle and sending Oracle flying into the closet Oct 08 07:48:39 why the fuck would Oracle remove UML from Netbeans? Oct 08 07:48:42 Bunch of tits Oct 08 07:48:58 Stskeeps, it's ok. I don't need to do it now. I guess we can expect 1.2 weekly's to appear after October 27th? Or before that? Oct 08 07:49:36 mece: they should appear on wednesday earliest, but our kernel guy is gone for this week so it'll take a little while to upgrade Oct 08 07:51:32 Stskeeps, sweet! Oct 08 08:05:32 crashie: ? Oracle done something recently? Oct 08 08:14:17 Morning, all Oct 08 08:15:03 Morning Jaffa Oct 08 08:15:46 tybollt: It's okay, Oracle are just destroying Sun's reputation; and surprising me cos I didn't think I thought that much of them. Oct 08 08:17:19 haha, yeah, i was about to ask what reputation Oct 08 08:17:48 the usability of solaris, the efficiency of java Oct 08 08:32:02 N900 dropped off at Nokia Care Point :-( Oct 08 08:32:15 usb? Oct 08 08:32:22 no, cellmo Oct 08 08:32:42 I think usb is going to last forever at this point Oct 08 08:32:59 well, or would, but fixing cellmo is probably going to be mainboard replacement and new usb port Oct 08 08:33:26 or a new simhole Oct 08 08:33:30 yes, i called it that Oct 08 08:33:45 my ear-speaker is somewhat flaky, but I suppose I want to fix it myself instead of waiting for eons to the phone back Oct 08 08:33:47 I say it'd probably last forever, because the force required to remove the plug is now 5% of original Oct 08 08:33:48 +get Oct 08 08:33:55 shadowjk, :) Oct 08 08:34:17 When it was new, I could have lifted a case of beer with that port before the connector unplugged Oct 08 08:34:34 lol Oct 08 08:34:47 I seriously suspect your usb-port has some issues nevertheles :) Oct 08 08:34:54 nah it's been fine :) Oct 08 08:35:05 mine's dyslexic Oct 08 08:35:13 it sends data backwards Oct 08 08:35:51 So I went to Nokia Online Shop, it said find local care point, Nokia Care website told me about this place I didn't know existed, and the name implied it was in a totally different city than what the address on the website was Oct 08 08:36:04 and Ovi Maps had some "issues" in getting me there.. Oct 08 08:36:31 Anyway, I wander in to this place and they have dishwashers and iphones and what not, and I ask if this is the place for Nokia Service Oct 08 08:36:41 the guy says "yeah, down the stairs, first door on your left" Oct 08 08:37:03 I walk down the stairs, and the first door I see is the exit. My immediate reaction was that I just got told to piss off Oct 08 08:37:06 lol Oct 08 08:37:15 :p Oct 08 08:37:37 But there was a small door to the left, and in there sat a guy buried in pile of electronics crap, so I knew it was the right place :) Oct 08 08:37:47 heh Oct 08 08:39:10 I think you're confused, if you were told to piss off then you would know you found Nokia Care Oct 08 08:39:13 kidding :p Oct 08 08:41:32 true :) Oct 08 08:41:51 the guy mostly had piles of car stereos Oct 08 08:43:28 ooooo--I'm such a nerd. My hairs stood up when I read that title.. http://conference2010.meego.com/session/porting-ti-omap%E2%84%A2-4-platform Oct 08 08:44:48 mm? Oct 08 08:45:34 the unobtanium pandaboard Oct 08 08:45:56 someone in #meego-arm got one last night Oct 08 08:45:58 so not entirely Oct 08 08:45:58 :P Oct 08 08:46:17 Stskeeps, that's pretty sweet Oct 08 08:46:43 when was omap4 announced? Oct 08 08:46:50 fairly long ago? Oct 08 08:47:04 couple of years? Oct 08 08:47:29 what about the hardware? Oct 08 08:49:25 Stskeeps, any idea of pricing? Oct 08 08:50:02 unsure, i thought there was some presentation Oct 08 08:50:02 s Oct 08 08:50:23 Free Oct 08 08:50:47 * MohammadAG51 holds off on getting a beagleboard Oct 08 08:50:52 If you sign up for their early program and get in Oct 08 08:51:29 But i don't think the pandaboard is "for sale" per say yet Oct 08 08:52:12 what if my project fails? Oct 08 08:52:53 "We expect it to cost a little under $179 at distributors and will be publishing ordering information in the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned!" Oct 08 08:53:01 cool :) Oct 08 08:53:42 MohammadAG51, then your project was a failure good sir Oct 08 08:53:48 that's the same price as the OMAP3 beagleboard xM :o Oct 08 08:54:48 that's weird Oct 08 08:55:42 thp: congrats for your Hildon-Desktop mods, they're awesome Oct 08 08:56:36 thp: what I really would like to see in it though is a way to rearrange the windows in the task switcher Oct 08 08:56:40 didn't know thp was here lol Oct 08 09:23:45 anyway to get an N900 out of a reboot loop without a reflash ? :S Oct 08 09:24:23 can I somehow mount rootfs on my PC and fix it ? Oct 08 09:25:33 Not unless you have BackupMenu installed. Oct 08 09:26:49 I don't remember if I had that installed Oct 08 09:26:55 what would I do if I did ? Oct 08 09:27:30 MohammadAG51: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control - that's you work isn't it? Oct 08 09:28:02 well, open your keyboard and power it on Oct 08 09:28:36 If you see a menu, you will have some access. If not, you're - pardon the language - screwed Oct 08 09:29:19 if yyou have ssh intalled it might let you login Oct 08 09:29:31 I mean over the usb network Oct 08 09:29:40 Maby Oct 08 09:29:52 But, he says its in a reboot loop Oct 08 09:30:00 yea - sounds bad Oct 08 09:30:02 Stskeeps, I actually find the rotation to be quite smooth even without accelerated drivers Oct 08 09:30:04 jacktheripper: you can try using the flasher to put it into r&d mode - there was one weird flashing bug which would cause it to reboot during bootup unless you boot it once in r&d mode then turn it off again Oct 08 09:30:19 jacktheripper: what did you do to achieve a reboot loop? :) Oct 08 09:31:00 I messed with microb-engine :/ Oct 08 09:31:07 the browser didn't work Oct 08 09:31:11 I rebooted Oct 08 09:31:32 and that happened. It also can be because of rootfs having 0B of space. Oct 08 09:31:52 I booted the device using a meego rescue disk, it gave me a recovery terminal and I have stuff in /dev Oct 08 09:31:56 what's the name of rootfs ? Oct 08 09:32:44 /dev/mtd5 Oct 08 09:32:54 don't have that :S Oct 08 09:33:00 what do you have? Oct 08 09:33:20 /dev/ubi0 ? Oct 08 09:33:34 mmcblk0, mmcblk0p*, mmcblk1, mmcblk1p* Oct 08 09:34:03 "Thousands of flushed condoms threaten to choke the Commonwealth Games village's drainage system, media reports said, in the latest problem to hit the venue from hidden snakes to outbreaks of dengue." Oct 08 09:34:30 Well, you can get your MyData and SD card Oct 08 09:34:41 *MyDocs Oct 08 09:34:46 I don't have an SD card Oct 08 09:35:02 and that's useless, I need microb-engine. Seems like I have to reflash :S Oct 08 09:35:11 and there's also no way to backup dpkg/info Oct 08 09:35:12 damn Oct 08 09:35:40 um Oct 08 09:35:44 crashanddie: +1 Oct 08 09:35:52 do you have anything with ubi in there? Oct 08 09:36:53 crashanddie: i wonder if athletics are really nothing more than an excuse to go around the world and fuck women in various countries.. Oct 08 09:37:17 Probably Oct 08 09:37:30 nope :S Oct 08 09:37:54 Stskeeps, want to know the worst thing? Oct 08 09:38:14 RobbieThe1st, sorry, need to go :S c ya Oct 08 09:38:19 Bye Oct 08 09:38:21 crashanddie: always Oct 08 09:38:33 Stskeeps, this is what the President of the Commonwealth games federation said: "If that is happening, it shows that there is use of condoms and I think that is a very positive story. Athletes are being responsible" Oct 08 09:38:41 crashanddie: oh dear Oct 08 09:39:26 Stskeeps, stupid question perhaps, but how do I connect to the 3g network? Appears it defaults to airplane(offline) mode. Oct 08 09:39:33 I have a sim without pin Oct 08 09:39:41 Athletes are being responsible in using enough condoms to clog the sewage system? What kind of athletes/games are these? Oct 08 09:39:46 mece: hmm, what provider? Elisa? Oct 08 09:39:53 Stskeeps, sauna Oct 08 09:39:58 crashanddie: maybe it's in good old greek style Oct 08 09:39:59 Stskeeps, uses elisa Oct 08 09:40:03 mece, you don't have the 3g network in your internet connection list? Oct 08 09:40:06 mece: interesting, second person with problem Oct 08 09:40:06 I do have one question for you guys: Do you know of any way - command line wise - to run a java application("java -jar .....") in "fullscreen" mode? It always seems to run with the top statusbar/etc visible. (Note: Using icedtea6 package) Oct 08 09:40:20 Stskeeps, could it be that sauna roams in elisas network? Oct 08 09:40:41 mece: we didn't find a good reason for it yet - did you connect to wifi before trying phone stuff? Oct 08 09:40:49 Saunalahti is a virtual operator, it uses elisa's network Oct 08 09:41:00 Stskeeps, no I didn't. Oct 08 09:41:01 It's also a fully owned subsidiary of Elisa Oct 08 09:41:30 Stskeeps, it did see a bunch of wifi's tho. Oct 08 09:41:37 All phones think they're roaming when using saunalahti Oct 08 09:41:50 <`0660> crashanddie, i thought there were pictures of overflowing sewage in athlete apartments even before the athletes arrived. I wonder if the officials are just trying to save their face by blaming the athletes. Oct 08 09:42:28 crashanddie, it's meego. Oct 08 09:42:36 Stskeeps, wifi works, it seems. Oct 08 09:42:44 mece: it's a known bug .. search for sauna in bugs.meego.com Oct 08 09:42:51 ok thanks. Oct 08 09:44:46 getting zarro boogs. Did you find one? Oct 08 09:45:02 sec Oct 08 09:45:51 * Stskeeps gahs and can't find it.. Oct 08 09:45:56 hehe Oct 08 09:45:57 * Stskeeps searches mail Oct 08 09:46:04 http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7893 Oct 08 09:46:05 Bug 7893: Alarm clock does not wake me up when battery has died. Oct 08 09:46:31 "Bug: device doesn't function when there is no power" Oct 08 09:46:59 "Bug: Television doesn't work when I remove antenna cable." Oct 08 09:47:18 Actually, alarm clock woke me up once after battery had died. Oct 08 09:47:19 True story Oct 08 09:47:30 On the N900/Maemo? Nearly all the time Oct 08 09:47:52 I was extremely surprised, because it had shutdown due to hw cutoff Oct 08 09:47:53 You can have the N900 wake you nearly 10-20 times after the BME has shutdown the phone for low battery. Oct 08 09:48:59 Stskeeps, wontfix? wtf? Oct 08 09:51:08 Man I never find anything in the bug tracker Oct 08 09:51:19 Got a QT4/PyQT4 question - anyone know stuff about QT interfaces and the N900? Oct 08 09:52:02 mece: it hides a bug, i think Oct 08 09:55:45 Stskeeps, well I guess it's because quick search only searches open bugs and the only way to search all bugs is to painfully stake through the millions of options in advanced search. Oct 08 09:56:06 :nod: Oct 08 10:07:01 why is that wontfix anyway.. Oct 08 10:11:49 aw crap. I give up. I have absolutely no idea how to find bugs, so I can assume that every bug I report is a duplicate. Oct 08 10:12:16 why would you like to study a bug that's already been fixed? Oct 08 10:12:32 ShadowJK, Hmm it looks like the person who it was assigned to thought that the one who reported the bug was just confused or something. Oct 08 10:12:44 I don't really get it. Oct 08 10:13:44 Venemo: wouldn't rearranging conflict with either scrolling or selecting? Oct 08 10:15:21 thp: maybe it would conflict with scrolling Oct 08 10:15:38 thp: but there must be some way :) Oct 08 10:15:41 Scelt hello? Oct 08 10:15:52 long tap to active move? Oct 08 10:15:54 Venemo: well, you know how it's implemented in the launcher Oct 08 10:16:07 but that's not very practical for the switcher Oct 08 10:16:52 i'd rather have some more intelligent auto-sorting (i.e. group all browser windows, group all IM/SMS, ...) Oct 08 10:17:15 But I always have vmstat in first window, battery status in seocnd, xchat in third, and then I don't care about the rest ;( Oct 08 10:17:37 thp: Btw, is your task switcher style configurable? Oct 08 10:17:50 unless I accidentally close one of them, then I have to close everything to get the "correct" order back :D Oct 08 10:18:35 RST38h: configurable at compile time atm Oct 08 10:18:53 thp: Any plans to add it to that .ini file? =) Oct 08 10:19:08 RST38h: no :p Oct 08 10:19:58 just scratched an itch there.. but given recent interest in MohammadAG51's mods, maybe he will step up and create an umbrella project for all h-d mods Oct 08 10:23:29 thp: yeah, I already talked with him about it :) Oct 08 10:23:39 MohammadAG51, ping? Oct 08 10:24:25 thp: anyways, I have another idea for rearranging Oct 08 10:24:56 i vote for having bananas dancing around in a circle around the task windows Oct 08 10:27:31 Hey, i overclocked n900 to ideal profile (500-850) in Titan-powerkernel. Can anyone tell me how to UNDO this without reflashing the stock kernel (if that is possible)? Oct 08 10:29:54 bennypr0fane: kernel-config limits 250 600? Oct 08 10:30:01 bennypr0fane, something like that. Oct 08 10:30:25 is 250 the lower limit? Oct 08 10:30:52 bennypr0fane, read here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=731516&postcount=16 Oct 08 10:30:58 i thought i'd have to use a low voltage-profile for that.... Oct 08 10:31:31 bennypr0fane, 250 is the default I think. I've never touched the stuff, so I don't know, but that's what I've come to understand. Oct 08 10:33:05 thank you Oct 08 10:33:10 i'll try that Oct 08 10:33:58 also, i think my phone always boots in r&d-mode or something Oct 08 10:34:59 when i power , the white nokia screen shows a phone-icon with a wrench and kernel info etc. are shown in green letters Oct 08 10:35:08 *power on Oct 08 10:35:29 how can i make start normal mode again? Oct 08 10:36:09 bennypr0fane: Sounds like R&D mode Oct 08 10:36:09 anyone remember what you had to do to get n900's attitude sensor unstuck? Oct 08 10:36:20 bennypr0fane: http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode Oct 08 10:38:08 dsg does that mean i need a linux pc to disable r&d mode? Oct 08 10:39:02 bennypr0fane: Well, the page says reflashing with the windows wizard will disable it. But I don't have any windows so I can't confirm. Oct 08 10:39:37 bennypr0fane: Did you get the phone like this from a nokia center? Oct 08 10:39:55 bennypr0fane, there's flasher for windows Oct 08 10:40:39 bennypr0fane, download it from here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php Oct 08 10:41:00 dsg yes i did. they performed update to pr 1.2 for me and returned it to me like this. i do have win xp but there's somehting wrong with my desktop's usb port. almost bricked my n900 when i tried to flash pr 1.2 myself. Oct 08 10:41:43 so using the windows flasher is what got me there in the first place Oct 08 10:41:50 bennypr0fane: hm, it might be best to just bring it back to them to fix then. Oct 08 10:42:04 i guess so Oct 08 10:43:10 MohammadAG, hey! Question, can you add a repo and be offered updates from app manager with your fixes, or does one have to install them manually? Oct 08 10:43:29 talking about the hildon fixes and the media player Oct 08 10:44:01 what I'm acutally concerned about is that every time i change the battery (i do that a lot cause i have 2), the device starts booting by itself. that didn't happen before service worked on it, so i'm guessing this behavior is due to r&d mode Oct 08 10:44:37 can anyone confirm that? Oct 08 10:44:57 bennypr0fane: I seem to recall similar behaviour with R&D mode, but I'm not sure. Oct 08 10:45:10 bennypr0fane: When the phone is off, and you just shortly press the power button, does it turn on? Oct 08 10:45:16 maybe this is the lifeguard process or sth. Oct 08 10:45:18 (usually you have to hold it for ~2 seconds) Oct 08 10:45:27 That's a sure sign of R&D mode. Oct 08 10:45:31 dsg yes it does - just short press Oct 08 10:45:38 Ok, definately R&D mode. Oct 08 10:45:49 what does r&d mean anyway? Oct 08 10:46:00 research & development Oct 08 10:46:05 omg Oct 08 10:46:06 Basically debugging/testing Oct 08 10:46:12 :-D Oct 08 10:46:20 defintiely not for me Oct 08 10:47:37 but do you think the battery thing (just inserting battery will power on the device without pressing power button) is also due to r&d mode? Oct 08 10:48:31 MohammadAG do you have an idea about this? Oct 08 10:49:15 My device doesn't boot on battery insertion, well, unless it's plugged in to charge. Oct 08 10:50:46 mine didn't do so either before service gave it back to me set to r&d mode... Oct 08 10:51:09 Well, take it off r&d mode then :P Oct 08 10:51:20 bennypr0fane: the best way to fix these issues seems to be a reflash, or try to take the device to a Nokia care center if you don't feel up to it Oct 08 10:51:23 ~flashing Oct 08 10:51:24 rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 08 10:51:27 bennypr0fane: Yes, I'm 90% sure. Oct 08 10:51:41 bennypr0fane: read that article Oct 08 10:53:17 Flashing doesn't reset R&D flag afiar Oct 08 10:53:47 i'd like to disable r&d myself, but it looks like i have to hook it up to a pc in order to do that, and mine's no good for that. so i guess it'll have to be the service center then Oct 08 10:53:57 But you don't need to reflash to remove the r&d flag. regardless on buootit should be blatantly obvious if you're in r&d mode. Oct 08 10:54:42 You can run the flasher on device. Oct 08 10:54:58 i guess i'm pretty sure now that i am. i was hoping to avoid the service center 'cause i'm afraid they can tell i overclocked and make me pay for any further service Oct 08 10:54:58 Not sure if it works with r&d though? So be careful. Oct 08 10:56:03 I use flasher on device for kernel flashing would be nice to know if it can change those kinds of things aswell Oct 08 10:57:21 at service, can they tell easily that i had it overclocked if i give it to them with factory settings in place? Oct 08 10:57:29 No Oct 08 10:57:43 There's no way to tell, and tbh I doubt they'd care. Oct 08 10:57:51 how do i flash on the device? Oct 08 10:58:48 i've only heard of a flasher that needs to be run from external computer Oct 08 10:59:30 or at least it's not mentioned here? http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Updating_or_re-flashing_the_firmware_using_the_Flasher Oct 08 11:00:36 bennypr0fane: Be careful. Not all advice you read on the internet is good advice :) Oct 08 11:00:51 Flashing rootfs from the device sounds much more risky than flashing kernel. Oct 08 11:01:19 dsg sure thing. i tend to trust what people in here advise me though ;-) Oct 08 11:01:34 or shopouldn't i? Oct 08 11:03:11 alterego so if you're absolutely positive there's no way to tell i had the device overclocked, i guess i'll just bring it in for service Oct 08 11:03:42 bennypr0fane: there really isn't Oct 08 11:04:09 dsg "Flashing rootfs from the device sounds much more risky than flashing kernel." well i don't know how to do it anyway... Oct 08 11:04:20 Unless they take it apart and you SoC is melted :P Oct 08 11:04:37 ~your Oct 08 11:04:38 your is, like, the possessive of you, and is not "you're", which means "you are" Oct 08 11:04:44 alterego not yet :-D Oct 08 11:08:40 why the hell my mediaplayer is not able t play flv Oct 08 11:08:51 gutted Oct 08 11:08:57 bbl Oct 08 11:11:39 bennypr0fane, "RobbieThe1st"? Oct 08 11:24:35 what's the dimensions of the omap3430 chip? Oct 08 11:25:11 About 10mm*10mm IIRC Oct 08 11:25:54 SpeedEvil, thanks. Oct 08 11:26:37 12x12, 13x14, or 22x22 Oct 08 11:27:09 (don't quote me on those, though) Oct 08 11:27:27 what is the one on the N900 then? Oct 08 11:27:36 12x12 methinks Oct 08 11:27:39 k. Oct 08 11:28:24 hmm Oct 08 11:28:28 y? Oct 08 11:28:40 what variants of router custom firmwares are there Oct 08 11:28:48 I know about OpenWRT and DD-WRT Oct 08 11:28:55 what difference does it make? Oct 08 11:29:57 MohammadAG: i know of tomato as well Oct 08 11:31:02 mece: digikey.com Oct 08 11:31:15 mece: search omap3530 Oct 08 11:33:07 SpeedEvil, I guess I could have just measured the one on the beagleboard. Oct 08 11:36:06 heh looks like they had to squeeze a lot mor stuff on pandaboard than on beagleboard. Oct 08 11:38:37 MohammadAG who's RobbieThe1st Oct 08 11:38:50 nevermind Oct 08 11:39:14 thought you were the backupmenu dev Oct 08 11:39:32 nope Oct 08 11:39:49 definitely no kind of dev Oct 08 11:39:57 :-( Oct 08 11:39:58 ty DocScrutinizer fun. Oct 08 11:43:16 DocScrutinizer: underwater acoustic modems http://www.nortek-as.com/en/service/deployment-assesories/acoustic-modem Oct 08 11:48:49 Is in maemo something like virtual console you can get on common linux with Ctrl + Alt + F[1-12]? (plain text console, not embedded in QT stuff or such) Oct 08 11:50:02 andax: wtf Oct 08 11:50:26 pupnik_: There were stuff about basically using wlan underwater few years ago on one acoustic conference. Oct 08 11:50:47 asj_: in case someone is wondering why i need it: they surely perform faster, need less system resources et cetera Oct 08 11:51:09 andax: -ENOPARSE Oct 08 11:51:18 pupnik_: looks like a relatively simple exercise to implement such underwater modem on N900 :-D Oct 08 11:51:28 pupnik_: Ofcourse it was not at 2.4GHz, they took the symbol and sent it on lower bandwidth (and lower central frequency) in a longer duration. Worked quite well. Oct 08 11:51:52 the headset connector should even work up to 30kHz I'd guess Oct 08 11:52:12 DocScrutinizer: I can test it the next time I go scuba diving...send me a waterproof n900 :) Oct 08 11:52:40 haha Oct 08 11:53:04 RF underwater works not terribly, if you have properly matched antenna. Oct 08 11:53:17 yep Oct 08 11:53:25 it seems the signal processing problems are similar underwater and over-the-air DocScrutinizer Oct 08 11:53:32 Low conductivity water works much better. Oct 08 11:53:36 Sea is a problem. Oct 08 11:53:36 some 30m :-P Oct 08 11:53:59 Underwater you get much more usable bandwidth if you just use acoustic waves. Oct 08 11:54:17 whales have had good luck with acoustic ;) Oct 08 11:54:18 underwater keynote speeches? :D Oct 08 11:54:25 And ofcourse the closer you are the more bandwidth you could use effectively. Oct 08 11:54:32 lo lcuk Oct 08 11:54:49 i'm more curious about handshaking via audio Oct 08 11:55:02 two devices chirping to each other would be cute Oct 08 11:55:05 And the signal processing problems are identical with acoustics underwater and RF :p Oct 08 11:55:32 makes sense sharpneli Oct 08 11:55:34 pupnik_: For what purpose that would be useful considering that we have bluetooth? Oct 08 11:55:57 asj_: Usually in Linux (see Linux console), the first six virtual consoles provide a text terminal with a login prompt to a Unix shell. The graphical X Window System starts in the seventh virtual console. Oct 08 11:56:13 can't think of one sharpneli - maybe feedback for humans that the devices are handshaking Oct 08 11:56:25 andax: sure, on a desktop Oct 08 11:56:29 Instead of the lovely "Pairing" icon on screen?-) Oct 08 11:56:51 Maybe it would be a nice aprils fool joke. Small program that can send contact info etc via the audio to other devices. Oct 08 11:56:57 maybe i'm getting a mitm attack sharpneli :) Oct 08 11:57:22 why not on maemo? would be surely more efficient if you can handle it Oct 08 11:57:27 :-) Oct 08 11:57:41 sharpneli: would be nice to implement a dialup modem :P Oct 08 11:57:41 asj_:^ Oct 08 11:57:41 andax: because it's not a desktop and would be almost useless Oct 08 11:57:55 "Many Android users are finding their shiny new handsets almost impossible to use due to a plethora of issues needing ridiculous workarounds, from creating and deleting multiple cloud accounts to repeatedly hard resetting." Oct 08 11:57:56 Heh. Howabout implementing the bluetooth standard over audio? :D Oct 08 11:58:00 plugin a audio/mic cross over cable and relive the retro years. Oct 08 11:58:15 Hmmm... And I thought Maemo sucked and Android was stable? =) Oct 08 11:58:27 i dont think so, the x-terrminal takes much time to load and i would use pdksh instead of bash, which is also faster Oct 08 11:58:29 you could probably implement FSK modulation and get few hundred bps out of that with speaker/mic Oct 08 11:58:46 RST38h: not needed to flash my N900 since I had it, I flash for each update though. Oct 08 11:59:12 So I'm pretty sure I've not flashed it since PR1.2 Oct 08 11:59:20 jarkkom: QAM ftw. Oct 08 11:59:39 well, i miss the function keys... Oct 08 11:59:43 Maybe 10KHz of usable bandwidth between two phones close by. Oct 08 12:00:29 I think there's no reason to use anything else than QAM nowadays really. We have more than enough processing power for it. Oct 08 12:00:32 mece: waddup? Oct 08 12:00:44 Could use the fm transmitter/reciever for data xfer? :) Oct 08 12:01:22 asj_: maybe it would be useless for you but not for me. (because of the mentioned reasons and some more) Oct 08 12:01:27 Hmmm. That's possible. Except FM sucks. We'd still get just few tens of KHz of bandwidth. Oct 08 12:02:48 a couple of hundred kilobits a second are probably plausible. Oct 08 12:02:52 Use it all and do bonding? :) Oct 08 12:02:52 mece: yeah, tripzero seemed to have made some wrong conclusions. Maybe I should have capitalized the VIRTUAL OPERATOR to make it understood Oct 08 12:03:12 Also - for silliness. Oct 08 12:03:17 bluetooth + wifi + usb + fm rx/tx + audio Oct 08 12:03:18 Camera + lcd Oct 08 12:03:22 for data transfer Oct 08 12:03:27 SpeedEvil: Via FM transmitter? Oct 08 12:03:31 SpeedEvil: nice, Oct 08 12:03:31 sharpneli: yes Oct 08 12:03:44 animated wd barcodes? :D Oct 08 12:03:47 sharpneli: Assuming complex modulation. Oct 08 12:03:55 2d~ Oct 08 12:04:00 alterego: yes Oct 08 12:04:03 maybe android will start fracturing and sucking mainly because it's not got enough gnu/linux Oct 08 12:04:20 SpeedEvil: I'd assume that the fm transmitter just does exactly what it says. FM modulates the carrier with the input sound signal. Oct 08 12:04:24 pupnik_: I don't think your average end user cares too much. Oct 08 12:04:36 mece: and I didn't know that airplane has nothing with airplane mode, which is very unclear Oct 08 12:04:48 It'll suceed or fail on how good it works for average users. Oct 08 12:04:51 http://dailyshite.com/2010/10/captain-picard-has-an-android-phone/ Oct 08 12:04:52 SpeedEvil: So the sound signal would be the limit. Oct 08 12:04:55 That don't want an iPhone :D Oct 08 12:04:59 sharpneli: irrelevant. Oct 08 12:05:23 sharpneli: You canmodulate a couple of hundred kilobits a second over a audio channel withthebandwidthof the FM transmitter. Oct 08 12:06:57 SpeedEvil: I dont really know the specs of the transmitter. Yeah you can modulate few hundred kbps in that bandwidth but is it possible with the current hardware? Oct 08 12:07:10 E.g if it just eats the sound and does basic FM modulation it is not possible. Oct 08 12:08:17 sharpneli: Over an audio channel of the bandwidthand SNR of the FM channel. Themodulationis irrelevant. Oct 08 12:08:45 * SpeedEvil plays with firefox 4. Oct 08 12:09:30 Yeah. Though data rate goes as logarithm of SNR (or linear with the dB) but linear with bandwith. :p Oct 08 12:09:42 With luck the SNR is good. You've tested it? Oct 08 12:09:57 SpeedEvil: that reminds me on a idea to connect a softmodem directly to a DSL connection Oct 08 12:11:14 sharpneli: no, it's a shitload of code. Oct 08 12:11:32 andax: A soft-modem that implements the DSL stck is quite possible in principle. Oct 08 12:12:18 SpeedEvil: Shitloads of code? Save test symbol as wav, send it to fm transmitter and record from other device. Oct 08 12:12:40 Transfer to matlab or whatever fancies you and go wild. Oct 08 12:12:49 SpeedEvil: Yeah, i guess so and think it would be pretty cool, (cold reduce some wiring salad at home) but i never saw such implementation Oct 08 12:13:05 shaIt's an uninteresting experiment. Oct 08 12:13:11 sharpneli: Oct 08 12:13:17 cold -> could Oct 08 12:13:39 sharpneli: The FM transmitter is specified to provide a clean audio link over xKHz. Oct 08 12:13:42 It is yeah. But what did you meant with the "shitload of code"? Oct 08 12:14:33 sharpneli: A proper soft-modem to modulate at high bits/hz a digital signal, and to recover it at the other end is quite significant code. Oct 08 12:15:13 andax: It would probably not. You're looking at a specialised 'soundcard' - that will at best need USB2 and to be moving a _large_ amount of data continually. Oct 08 12:15:29 alterego: perhaps going with meego with a lot of gnu/linux will mean more long-term trust and adoption of the platform Oct 08 12:15:49 Yeah it is. Especially if it needs to be efficient. However it is not relevant if we want to set upper bounds for the possible data rate. Oct 08 12:16:35 SpeedEvil: Can you e.g change the samplerate the FM radio eats? Or is it analog already when it goes to the transmitter? Oct 08 12:17:07 pupnik_: maybe, or not, as much as I don't like the architecture of android, it does have the sandboxing potential that vendors may like from a security perspective ... Oct 08 12:17:20 The datasheet of teh FM transmitter sets a SNR and a bandwidth. You then compute the maximum datarate based on this. You're not doinganything other than treating it as a pure analog channel. Oct 08 12:17:22 Yet to see how Nokia's security system works.. Oct 08 12:17:22 I was regarding a t40 thinkpad with integrated softmodem, so no USB stuff would be needed. Then, with IP-forwarding, could be the wifi hot spot and home server Oct 08 12:17:32 SpeedEvil:^ Oct 08 12:17:55 andax: In principle possible, it would mean considerable hardware inside. Oct 08 12:18:30 SpeedEvil: So it does not go trough the audio system? That's great to hear. Oct 08 12:18:43 I was afraid that it would be tied to the audio output. Oct 08 12:18:54 andax: the 'easy' way would be to basically integrate a DSL modem, the hard way would be to integrate a DAC/ADC, and do it in software. This would bemaybe $10-$20 cheaper Oct 08 12:19:06 But would probably not run on linux. Oct 08 12:23:04 SpeedEvil: a softmodem is functioning essentially as a DAC/ADC, much like a sound card which handles pure PCM and analog signals from and to the telephone line Oct 08 12:23:49 andax: yes. But a softmodem that is designed fro DSL use requires an ADC running around 500 times faster. Oct 08 12:24:01 doesn't linux include some softmodem support by default, at least for conexant chips? Oct 08 12:24:18 Irrelevant. Oct 08 12:24:34 A DSL stack in software for a sofrtmodem would be a really huge chunk of code. Oct 08 12:24:44 it's very simple to win the apple/android/phone war. make MeeGo the better android platform Oct 08 12:24:47 The DSL specification is - IIRC - around a thoudand pages. Oct 08 12:24:54 pupnik_: no, it's not. Oct 08 12:25:04 so you've got native MeeGo/maemo apps, and you run the other fluff in a vm Oct 08 12:25:07 SpeedEvil: 500 times faster... probably too fast for a soundcard i guess Oct 08 12:25:17 pupnik_: The notion that the best product wins in a fmarketplace is completely broken. Oct 08 12:25:23 i know that Oct 08 12:25:24 andax: much too fast, yes. Oct 08 12:25:30 actual modulation isn't that complicated in DSL but complexity in ADSL comes from legacy stuff, as there's all the ATM transport Oct 08 12:25:36 are you talking about using the FM transmitter as a soft-modem...? O.o Oct 08 12:25:59 jarkkom: The modulation is not in principle _that_ complex - OFDM/... Oct 08 12:26:15 SpeedEvil: that's why don't don't make a 'better OS' and expect to sell that. You make a better way for people to run their apps, and they'll flock to you. Oct 08 12:26:16 pupnik_: it seems more about eyecandy and phone sex factor that makes android successful, not it being any good :) Oct 08 12:26:17 jarkkom: The problem isthat implementing all of the seperate layers is a quite large amount of code. Oct 08 12:26:22 From memory. Oct 08 12:26:53 SpeedEvil, yeah I haven't dealth with ADSL/DSLAM in several years but I remember whole ATM thing being main headache as nobody actually had ATM networks anymore Oct 08 12:27:01 Admittedly a lot of the Android phones seem to look the same to me now. Oct 08 12:27:03 Initial FIR/IIR filter fromthe ADC/DAC. OFDM modulate/demodulate. ATM with FEC. then PPPOA or ... Oct 08 12:27:59 It's somethingthat is possible to do, but it would require special hardware and significant software. Oct 08 12:28:30 one thing this maemo experience teaches me is the nature of pioneering product classes (internet tablets) and market adoption Oct 08 12:29:41 * SpeedEvil points at the Apple Newton. Oct 08 12:29:44 you've got a chance to be a hit as the innovator - maybe - if it's as simple as a frisbee or hula-hoop :) Oct 08 12:29:46 OFDM == just do FFT and look at the taps ;p Oct 08 12:29:58 sharpneli: I know the principle. Oct 08 12:30:04 the audio frequency range typically is 20–20000 Hz Oct 08 12:30:57 sharpneli: While the individual parts of it are perhaps managable bits of code, the aggregation is a fairly large bit. And DSL modem debugging hardware is rare and hideously expensive. Oct 08 12:31:17 My view is extremely biased here because I know the low level stuff well but I really dont know right now how to implement the upper layers. So I'll take your word for it. Oct 08 12:33:07 One positive side is that one software based stack could work just as well with audio and with FM transmitter as the transfer path. Oct 08 12:33:11 sharpneli: Each individual bit is simple, but implementing all of thetwiddles, and spending ages puzzling over the ambigous meaning of bit 32 of the training word... Oct 08 12:33:21 :D Oct 08 12:33:21 sharpneli: unfortunately, not quite. Oct 08 12:33:29 sharpneli: FM is basically a clean channel. Oct 08 12:33:45 Real-world audio that goes throughthe air has many more artifacts. Oct 08 12:34:05 Reflections, and frequency-dependant phase shifts and amplitude shifts. Oct 08 12:34:08 Yeah. But they're all just noise and handled the same way if OFDM is used. Oct 08 12:34:13 As well as external noise. Oct 08 12:34:24 they aren't. Oct 08 12:34:40 Frequency dependant phase shifts that alter over time are a pain with OFDM too. Oct 08 12:34:52 What would produce that kind of effect? Oct 08 12:34:52 OK WTF http://yourlogomakesmebarf.com/files/pegleg-paintball-logo.gif Oct 08 12:35:05 Who the hell comes up with this shit? Oct 08 12:35:36 sharpneli: motion. Oct 08 12:35:48 sharpneli: reflections off nearby objects Oct 08 12:36:00 sharpneli: the angle of the sending/recieving phones changing. Oct 08 12:36:39 Motion is correct, others are just the same as with RF Oct 08 12:36:48 Multipath just means longer guard interval. Oct 08 12:36:58 crashanddie: paintball for those in a wheelchair? Oct 08 12:37:17 But you can completely neglect these if you are using the FM transmitter, as you are not dealing withthem. Oct 08 12:37:35 Yeah it's true. Oct 08 12:37:38 But that makes it boring :D Oct 08 12:37:39 The FM transmitter is by definition a nice flat 'perfect' audio channel. Oct 08 12:37:52 Have I linked http://www.renault-ze.com/news/twizy-competition-1982.html&gallery=#gallery-twizy here? Oct 08 12:37:56 Free car! Oct 08 12:38:00 Yeah because the relative bandwith is so damn small Oct 08 12:38:25 Though it seems to be aimed at people who like musical theater. Oct 08 12:38:41 I still like my idea, just use everything with a network stack on top and do bonding :) Oct 08 12:38:44 The 'rental battery' concept is interesting. Oct 08 12:38:56 SpeedEvil: However those effects are relevant only to the demodulation phase. After that the rest of the stack is identical. Oct 08 12:39:11 And as you said, the rest of the stack is most likely the hardest part to do :p Oct 08 12:39:12 Though it means implementing new network devices for fm tx+rx and audio in/out Oct 08 12:39:44 If you use the forward camera and screen you've got bidirectional communications too :) Oct 08 12:40:42 lol SpeedEvil Oct 08 12:40:55 from the thumbnails I tohught 9/12 "Happy" was a meegomobile! Oct 08 12:41:02 maybe some forms of historic packet radio network as a starting point could reduce the efforts Oct 08 12:41:39 lcuk: naah - that's what happens when you reverse into a crowd of children. Oct 08 12:42:03 Grab the stack of some radio amateur packet radio system and write new modulation/demodulation code. Oct 08 12:42:27 I point to debian chroot Oct 08 12:42:37 and the factr that fldigi is already there Oct 08 12:42:54 However- the range of FM is under that of bluetooth. Oct 08 12:43:00 So there is almost certainly no point. Oct 08 12:43:37 True. The audio path would be quite neat. Oct 08 12:44:00 And then plug a small hydrophone to the device and you'll have underwater communication! Oct 08 12:45:15 \o/ Oct 08 12:45:46 Is that what this conversation was about. Oct 08 12:46:11 I think I'd prefer a text to morse conversion using the flash and camera to encode and decode. Oct 08 12:46:11 Atleast it started with http://www.nortek-as.com/en/service/deployment-assesories/acoustic-modem this :D Oct 08 12:46:19 Who wants to do it for me? :) Oct 08 12:47:21 Heh. It's hard to know which one would be more annoying. Beeping and hissing or epilepsy inducing flashing :D Oct 08 12:47:43 just look at the source code of the eeepc Oct 08 12:47:45 or the olpc Oct 08 12:47:51 they screeched to find one another Oct 08 12:48:04 Well, flashing has better range in low noise conditions Oct 08 12:48:22 I think it should be able to do a couple of hundred meters. Oct 08 12:48:25 With flash Oct 08 12:48:33 Especially if you could setup the position and do tracking. Oct 08 12:48:40 if the two phones are fixed Oct 08 12:48:52 Yeah Oct 08 12:49:08 Could use the red led as a carrier? :D Oct 08 12:49:10 At night at least Oct 08 12:49:37 alterego: you could do spread specrtum data using YUV! Oct 08 12:49:43 Why not communicating under water? the size of the keyboard gets more and more appealing for frogs as well :-) Oct 08 12:49:52 pupnik_: hah, good idea. Oct 08 12:50:01 I guess you could just throw infrared filter over flash if it has enough power in those frequencies Oct 08 12:50:30 Flash outputs essentially no power at IR Oct 08 12:50:34 jarkkom: no point, we've got an ir emitter Oct 08 12:50:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:White_LED.png Oct 08 12:50:39 or just use the IR emitter? Oct 08 12:50:50 there will be some tail at IR of the yellow pigment, but I would suspect it to be down at least 10^6 Oct 08 12:50:56 yeah Oct 08 12:51:01 if I have 4 partitions on a device, say, sda1-4, would dd if=sda of=file backup all 4 partitions? Oct 08 12:51:04 the IR LED is weak though Oct 08 12:51:13 MohammadAG: yes Oct 08 12:51:19 Unfortunately you have to make sure the camera is down when you're firing. Oct 08 12:51:23 thanks Oct 08 12:51:27 MohammadAG: you are aware trhat mmc are not block devices though? Oct 08 12:51:31 flash is much easier Oct 08 12:51:50 oh I forgot abour IR completely, with bluetooth being everywhere Oct 08 12:52:00 There is no IR reciever. Oct 08 12:52:05 SpeedEvil, it's an external microSD card Oct 08 12:52:12 Remove the IR filter from your camera Oct 08 12:52:12 The cameras can - sort-of pick up IR, but not well. Oct 08 12:52:25 Actually CCD picks it up really well if the filter is removed. Oct 08 12:52:38 But that's not exactly the most practical solution :p Oct 08 12:52:38 yes. Oct 08 12:52:54 Also - neither of the cameras in the n900 are CCD. Oct 08 12:52:55 isnt it a IR sensor on the right of the camera shot button? Oct 08 12:53:06 (but that point is irrelevant, as they have a similar spectral response) Oct 08 12:53:13 andax: no Oct 08 12:53:14 andax: it is a sender. Oct 08 12:54:14 sharpneli, had one of those first sony cameras without IR filter at work, annoying to work with since conference area where it was also had IR-based headset system from simultaneous translation Oct 08 12:54:43 Heh Oct 08 12:55:06 then sony put IR filters on every camera when some pervert found out that some clothes are quite transparent in IR frequencies Oct 08 12:55:14 I removed the IR filter from one old logitech quickcam. Provided fun for approximately for ~5minutes :p Oct 08 12:55:42 Hmm. I think you just told me an excellent way to use it :D Oct 08 12:55:47 sharpneli, best part of removing IR filter is that you can see through some materials Oct 08 12:56:32 IR photography is cool Oct 08 12:56:37 As a fun sidenote you can see why some black shirts are much hotter at summer than others. Some shirts are actually white at IR even though they're black on visible light. Oct 08 12:56:39 for natural stuff - not pervy Oct 08 12:56:43 near-IR Oct 08 12:57:04 ~1um wavelenght kicks ass. Oct 08 12:57:20 SpeedEvil, this should work for these then right? Oct 08 12:57:23 mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~$ ls /dev/mmcblk0* Oct 08 12:57:23 /dev/mmcblk0 /dev/mmcblk0p1 /dev/mmcblk0p2 /dev/mmcblk0p3 /dev/mmcblk0p4 Oct 08 12:57:41 MohammadAG: mmc are not a block device Oct 08 12:57:48 MohammadAG: err Oct 08 12:57:58 actually - ignore that, of coruse tehy are Oct 08 12:58:03 I was thinking of mt Oct 08 12:58:03 d Oct 08 12:58:03 that's not the N900 Oct 08 12:58:04 yes Oct 08 12:58:15 k, ty :) Oct 08 12:59:12 The root devicehas allthe aprtitions, and the partition table. Oct 08 13:02:06 Ah, you've just reminded me Oct 08 13:02:13 * alterego flashes a new meego image Oct 08 13:02:34 Hmm. Meego works with n900 already? Oct 08 13:02:50 depends on your definition of "works" Oct 08 13:04:00 Useful development work can be done without jig with serial port? Oct 08 13:07:23 BTW: HTML/Malicious.PDF.Gen VIRUS WARNING: #http://maemo4beginners.garage.maemo.org/maemo-quick-start-guide.pdf Oct 08 13:08:00 Is there a good online virus scanner for maemo users? ^ Oct 08 13:09:05 (do not open the document) Oct 08 13:09:08 sharpneli: no, you cant get to the serial port with no jig Oct 08 13:09:52 In theory you could. But that was just my definition of the 'works'. No serial port console needed. Oct 08 13:10:50 andax: what do you expect that pdf to do to a Linux machine? Oct 08 13:11:03 andax, which virus scanner identified it? Oct 08 13:11:08 alterego, not the point Oct 08 13:11:18 its pdf resource and lots of devs may be on windows Oct 08 13:11:28 Sure I get that. Oct 08 13:11:31 i see its for m4 though which may limit Oct 08 13:11:46 but still if its a genuine detections it should be cleaned Oct 08 13:12:08 the virus is being picked up as generic heuristics though Oct 08 13:12:12 lcuk: scanned with AVIRA, according to description it tries to find ftp accounts Oct 08 13:12:14 Maybe someone should work on porting clamav or something for keeping the fat areas clean ;) Oct 08 13:12:48 alterego, this isnt a device problem Oct 08 13:12:52 I submitted it to totalscan, let's see what various scanners say Oct 08 13:12:59 lcuk: the question was :P Oct 08 13:13:34 only AntiVir complains about it, probably heuristic gone wrong Oct 08 13:13:41 And maybe it is a good idea. Oct 08 13:13:57 It'd certainly make some people happy I'd have thought. Oct 08 13:14:25 lcuk: the question was :P <-- why the hell is everyone talking like Yoda today? Oct 08 13:14:36 1/43, so probably just AntiVir issue http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=35e94a64f7fc8036ef09ab3dd165c3036fc3b0bbb7b50fc4769023a0f2d62fe2-1286543369 Oct 08 13:14:56 andax, jarkkom could you check http://maemo.org/development/documentation/maemo-quick-start-guide.pdf Oct 08 13:15:10 it appears to be the same file published Oct 08 13:16:34 its odd too that the maemo4beginners server does not have a start page Oct 08 13:16:41 Is the new Fennec beta actually available? Oct 08 13:16:45 virustotal is pretty good for checking that kind of stuff Oct 08 13:17:10 jarkkom: yes, good to know, thanks Oct 08 13:17:12 they support all major antivirus software and bunch of more obscure ones Oct 08 13:17:38 and you don't have to risk anything by downloading files yourself Oct 08 13:18:21 jarkkom, :) it is quite nice actually Oct 08 13:18:23 lcuk, it's same file, identical hashes and same result, just antivir complaining Oct 08 13:18:33 thanks Oct 08 13:18:36 http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=35e94a64f7fc8036ef09ab3dd165c3036fc3b0bbb7b50fc4769023a0f2d62fe2-1286543369 Oct 08 13:18:53 Or it's the best pdf virus ever. Constructed spesifically to give identical hash! Oct 08 13:19:50 sharpneli: I'm sure the other AVs would have picked something up it it was the case :P Oct 08 13:20:04 sharpneli, it was just highlighting the same thing had been published ;) Oct 08 13:20:26 heuristic scanning can often bring up things like this though Oct 08 13:21:04 bbl Oct 08 13:21:09 speaking of viruses on linux: http://liqbase.net/OMG_VIRUS_ON_LINUX_Screenshot.png Oct 08 13:21:18 Hey, are you going to let logic come into way of fear and despair?-) Oct 08 13:22:13 lcuk: the real joke is the bookmark to the TMZ Oct 08 13:22:36 ieatlint, \o I will tell tracy that Oct 08 13:22:43 :P Oct 08 13:22:47 this is the first time I try the OVI maps, and I could not find a way to save a location of interest or to search for one, I used to be able to do so with OVI maps for N97. is it possible in N900? and how? Oct 08 13:23:04 also, that must be a lie, there are no women using linux Oct 08 13:23:08 just like there are no women online Oct 08 13:23:33 Considering the resolution that's a netbook. Quite girlish thing. Oct 08 13:23:47 sharpneli, its a lenovo x41 Oct 08 13:24:12 netbooks aren't really girlish... they're fucking useful Oct 08 13:24:18 description of HTML/Malicious.PDF.Gen : http://www.precisesecurity.com/trojan/htmlmaliciouspdfgen/ Oct 08 13:24:26 ieatlint: are you saying that girls are not fucking useful? Oct 08 13:24:30 sometimes you need a lightweight laptop as a terminal that has a battery that will list 6+ hours Oct 08 13:24:46 haha the battery on that old couchboard lasts about 5 minutes Oct 08 13:24:52 Corsac, don't know if this 'Useful' dude is being fucked, but I definitely know some girls who are fucking. Oct 08 13:25:13 Corsac: no, of course not, they just are useful in the kitchen instead Oct 08 13:25:26 ugh Oct 08 13:25:27 crashanddie: right now? Oct 08 13:25:35 why do people think sexism is funny? Oct 08 13:25:39 Corsac, sure Oct 08 13:25:45 mgedmin: because it is Oct 08 13:26:04 depends Oct 08 13:26:05 For the same reason anything else is funny. Come on, people laugh at farts. Oct 08 13:26:40 Even though farts are funny it's quite rude and unacceptable to do that in general at public. Oct 08 13:26:49 ieatlint-- Oct 08 13:26:51 my gf is a linux sysadmin and makes more sexist jokes than i do... so meh to your "omg no, sexist jokes are bad" Oct 08 13:27:37 pics or it didn't happen Oct 08 13:27:54 hah Oct 08 13:29:52 smhar: it is not possible with ovi for n900. frankly speaking, ovi maps on n900 appears as the poorest maps application that i ever came across. Oct 08 13:30:37 it only means that you haven't seen too many map applications ever Oct 08 13:30:58 ovi maps on the n900 totally beats mapquest Oct 08 13:31:04 which is the nicest thing one can say about it Oct 08 13:31:39 andax, ooh, that is really silly, to specially considering that the code is all there!! I can not think of a reason not to port it to N900!!! Oct 08 13:31:58 what code? Oct 08 13:31:58 Surfa: mapquest... i remember, it was hot around 1998 Oct 08 13:32:15 or 1999 or so Oct 08 13:32:52 ieatlint, the software code for the part of the software doing the saving and searching of POI Oct 08 13:33:13 i somehow assumed that ovi was entirely closed source Oct 08 13:33:20 so, is there a 'better' alternative maps software for N900 that does that? Oct 08 13:33:35 sygic's good :P Oct 08 13:34:11 sygic++ Oct 08 13:34:22 http://www.google.com/maps/m is the mobile version of googe maps... there's a gps plugin for the browser Oct 08 13:34:22 i like the way she stutters Oct 08 13:34:23 Surfa: at the moment i prefer to navigate without GPS, go to http://map.search.ch/ and save the printable file when i need to find something. Oct 08 13:34:23 ieatlint, I know, I mean Nokia doing the porting, afterall, they the ones who published OVI maps for N900, and they own and have access to the code of OVI maps for N97 Oct 08 13:34:43 Surfa: unfortunately this map is for switzerland only Oct 08 13:34:58 but i think its the best Oct 08 13:35:01 sygic is something like $80 as i recall Oct 08 13:35:01 online map Oct 08 13:35:14 ieatlint, I mean a map application that is an offline one, that does not depend on a live internet connection Oct 08 13:35:45 smhar: there are some that will do caching of OSM or google methinks... not sure how well they work Oct 08 13:36:13 smhar, paper maps Oct 08 13:36:33 smhar: i wish i had a offline map. It makes me crazy wqhen i see the road on the map with its name and cant find that road over the search function of Ovi Oct 08 13:36:35 lcuk, yah, beside that I mean Oct 08 13:37:11 smhar: in my experience, of the free mapping apps for the n900, mappero is the best Oct 08 13:37:17 and i believe it supports caching Oct 08 13:37:37 http://www.mardy.it/mappero Oct 08 13:37:58 for Meego they really need to have some kind of QMapView and then have it support whatever map backend phone manufacturer packages Oct 08 13:38:22 although the routing and POI search are online only methinks Oct 08 13:38:45 even with just single source, I have like 200MB of openstreetmap cache data on phone currently because each app does its caching in different way Oct 08 13:40:40 qt4.7 doesn't have a qmapview, and meego won't either Oct 08 13:40:46 (well, meego 1.1) Oct 08 13:41:15 isn't there some thingy of that sort in QtM ? Oct 08 13:41:27 there's gps stuff in qtmobility Oct 08 13:41:48 achipa, there has been something about it being in plans but I haven't seen anything concrete Oct 08 13:42:11 but as i understand it, qtmobility has nothing based on qwidget... was supposed to be a wrapper for standardising detection and access of device-specific hardware Oct 08 13:42:33 Do you think it will ever be possible to port maemo/meego to n8? Oct 08 13:42:33 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1.0-beta2/qgraphicsgeomap.html Oct 08 13:42:37 achipa, yes http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1.0-beta2/location-overview.html Oct 08 13:43:01 * lcuk likes qtmobility :) Oct 08 13:43:11 oooh... i stand corrected Oct 08 13:43:13 happily Oct 08 13:43:14 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1.0-beta2/ Oct 08 13:43:28 why is nokia even trying? they should just kill maemo/meego. Oct 08 13:43:46 sigh Oct 08 13:43:47 i do not like the new layout for qt docs :( Oct 08 13:44:13 lolATmaemo: are you a troll? if so, please go and kill yourself slowly with a rusted, blunt knife Oct 08 13:44:28 Stskeeps: of course he is Oct 08 13:44:36 ouch... Oct 08 13:44:41 I guess majority of developers probably would rather see symbian go Oct 08 13:45:13 lolATmaemo/samosa: do a better job masking yourself Oct 08 13:45:35 lolATmaemo, what do you suggest to do? Oct 08 13:45:48 the whole quit and then join 30s later with a new nick is not too convincing Oct 08 13:45:51 hmhm http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/m/beta Oct 08 13:46:07 port it to n8 or abandon it. Oct 08 13:46:38 slow. Oct 08 13:47:07 lolATmaemo, how do you know meego won't run on the n8 ? Oct 08 13:47:25 lcuk, has Linux ever really run on any Symbian device? Oct 08 13:47:51 Besides: shit screen resolution Oct 08 13:47:54 GAN900, theres versions of linux o nthe iphone Oct 08 13:48:16 and Mer runs on a pocket lighter Oct 08 13:48:29 Stskeeps: is Serbia, that saying is with a spoon Oct 08 13:50:00 hmm this looks pretty good actually, I need to see if I could convert my timetable app to mobility 1.1 http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/09/30/qt-mobility-1-1-0-beta-package/comment-page-1/ Oct 08 13:50:29 lcuk, "there're" and no, not really. Oct 08 13:50:34 lcuk, not since the 3g. Oct 08 13:50:53 GAN900, sigh - get a sense of adventure Oct 08 13:50:53 GAN900: does http://linux-7110.sourceforge.net/ count ? :D Oct 08 13:51:16 jarkkom, :) yeah it does. Oct 08 13:51:32 lcuk, point being, platform sec is getting better, not worse. Oct 08 13:51:41 lcuk: [06:40] Do you think it will ever be possible to port maemo/meego to n8? <-- I dont know, but theres no version out? Oct 08 13:52:20 lolATmaemo, change the nick if you want a serious conversation Oct 08 13:53:40 better? Oct 08 13:53:54 sure Oct 08 13:54:22 who will countdown for the kick ? Oct 08 13:54:32 3? Oct 08 13:56:15 Stskeeps, +q works a lot better Oct 08 13:56:28 Stskeeps, they can't change their nick anymore, and have to endure us ignoring them :0 Oct 08 13:56:30 so does beer in the sun Oct 08 13:56:30 :P Oct 08 13:56:50 +b without kick is the same Oct 08 13:56:55 plus they won't rejoin if they leave Oct 08 13:57:07 Corsac, nope, +b still allows them to change nicknames Oct 08 13:57:15 are you sure? Oct 08 13:57:24 pretty much Oct 08 13:57:31 crashanddie: depends on impl Oct 08 13:57:37 well, let's try Oct 08 13:57:39 Stskeeps, ban me Oct 08 13:58:01 Stskeeps: I meant on your implem, obviously Oct 08 13:58:02 man, that feels good.. Oct 08 13:58:02 :) Oct 08 13:58:03 :P Oct 08 13:58:35 (changing nickname would me escaping the ban, so I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be allowed) Oct 08 13:59:19 cannot speak on channel, when banned Oct 08 13:59:27 atleast on some other ircd Oct 08 13:59:53 well Oct 08 13:59:56 jarkkom, which timetable application? Oct 08 14:00:24 crashanddie: worked? Oct 08 14:01:00 glad Stskeeps took his own sweet time to keep me banned, when obviously I wasn't changing my nickname :P Oct 08 14:01:06 but I still can't talk when deopped Oct 08 14:01:39 should be better Oct 08 14:01:44 smhar, Helsinki Area Transport provides online XML API for fetching optimal routes through public transport, so got API key from them and wrote client to use that + gps data Oct 08 14:02:17 jarkkom, interesting Oct 08 14:02:26 Corsac, it makes sense you shouldn't be allowed to change your nickname when banned, but still... Oct 08 14:02:39 jarkkom, is that app in a repository? Oct 08 14:03:15 i've seen a couple implementations of the same stuff, but they were never finished Oct 08 14:03:22 no, I would have to keep it closed source because I can't share the API key and wider distribution would need agreement with them Oct 08 14:03:54 jarkkom, how long do you want to bet that API key is kept safe if a few of us start looking at it very closely Oct 08 14:04:04 just run "strings" on binary :V Oct 08 14:04:16 exactly my point Oct 08 14:05:10 jarkkom, ah, right. the other apps prolly did not use the api Oct 08 14:06:09 they also have full XML dump but N900 just doesn't have memory for that even if I serialized that to binary Oct 08 14:07:12 I can give you binary though if any of you lives in helsinki area and want to test it promise not to abuse their API :) Oct 08 14:07:26 oh, great Oct 08 14:07:41 if they're going to promise that, and you really want them to test, then just give the soruce Oct 08 14:09:38 I was going to release it as GPL but I don't have time to deal with whatever subcontractor handles API access how to deal with open source projects Oct 08 14:11:30 jarkkom, so how does closed source make it better? Oct 08 14:12:06 it doesn't Oct 08 14:15:35 basically binary only releases in cases like that are just covering your ass, "evil hackers stole it" Oct 08 14:22:05 is camera-ui the same size in all firmwares? (as shown by ls -l)? Oct 08 14:22:05 why can not I install some OVI applications available for N900? why it is 'not available for you country'? Oct 08 14:22:24 or the MD5 sum of it Oct 08 14:22:36 smhar, licensing issues Oct 08 14:23:51 smhar: which country? Oct 08 14:23:55 crashanddie, but my country is just a 'normal' country! it is even a USA Allie :-) Oct 08 14:24:12 has nothing to do with the normality of your country Oct 08 14:24:35 if I write an own ioctl kernel function, can I compile a userspace application calling that method ? I would not like to install gcc on the target device, can it be solved somehow from scratchbox or with other bypass ? Oct 08 14:25:12 ( to be clear: to avoid the linker 'undefined reference...' error ) Oct 08 14:25:19 it's just Damned Copyright © Oct 08 14:25:45 andax, Bahrain, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahrain Oct 08 14:26:28 crashanddie, but there must be a reason why certain country is included in the 'ban' Oct 08 14:26:46 smhar, because of stupid reasons Oct 08 14:27:01 smhar, if you have a problem, contact the copyright holder Oct 08 14:27:02 ?!! Oct 08 14:27:04 not #maemo Oct 08 14:28:13 crashanddie, I know it is not a #maemo problem, I just think it is strange. this the second application that I can not install because of this issue Oct 08 14:29:04 smhar, I'm still trying to understand why any person in their right mind would attempt to limit the amount of exposure an application/product/movie/tv-show/song can have based on the geographical location of a person. Oct 08 14:31:16 * MohammadAG proves crashanddie's point Oct 08 14:31:47 http://www.youtube.com/bullettv (US only), http://www.youtube.com/bullettvsme (international), can't view both Oct 08 14:32:00 either* Oct 08 14:32:02 This video contains content from Sony Music Entertainment, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. <- wtf does that even mean Oct 08 14:32:05 * MohammadAG goes back to MeeGo Oct 08 14:32:47 soundtrack usually Oct 08 14:32:56 What the hell "E: Handler silently failed" Oct 08 14:33:23 GAN900, user/hidden, I have a modified apt for it Oct 08 14:33:33 Ah, fennec Oct 08 14:34:01 smhar: i could imagine the software you tried to install contained a module with cryptography which possibly is not clear if it is legal or not in Bahrain. Oct 08 14:34:09 GAN900, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/apt_0.7.20.2maemo13.1_0m5latest_armel.deb Oct 08 14:34:34 andax, yeah, like Nokia cares about that Oct 08 14:36:05 crashanddie: Maybe not Nokia but OECD: http://gilc.org/crypto/crypto-survey-99.html Oct 08 14:36:51 hey, my n900 freezes at the "nokia" screen on startup... i am kindof clueless... Oct 08 14:37:08 andax, and that link tells us exactly diddly squat Oct 08 14:38:02 DrHalan, doesn't sound healthy. did you install things priot to this happening? Oct 08 14:38:13 and have you gotten yourself a backup Oct 08 14:38:25 freezes for how long? Oct 08 14:38:30 nah i just recharged it this night and it turned itself off and now i can't start it anomyre Oct 08 14:38:35 I would expect it to boot, eventually, or reboot, eventually Oct 08 14:38:41 and which Nokia logo, the first one or the boot video? Oct 08 14:38:52 it vibrates and shows a nokia-screen after some time it vibrates again... Oct 08 14:39:01 mohammadAG: the one painted on the hardware :D Oct 08 14:39:03 a reboot loop :( Oct 08 14:39:14 crashanddie, lol Oct 08 14:39:35 DrHalan, a framebuffer kernel would help, if you can flash it Oct 08 14:39:38 reflashing is the surest fix, but it'll restore everything to factory settings, losing any 3rd-party applications Oct 08 14:39:50 user data should be preserved Oct 08 14:40:03 (unless you also flash the eMMC image, which would wipe user data too) Oct 08 14:40:09 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/framebuffer/zImage-fb-omap1.bin Oct 08 14:40:33 I hope it is not a WSOD, I've had a couple of those with Nokia devices before. bad experience Oct 08 14:40:40 mh guess ill do that Oct 08 14:40:51 no such thing as a WSOD Oct 08 14:41:03 but maybe its a hardware issue? to me it seems possible that the power button broke.. Oct 08 14:41:29 DrHalan, flash the framebuffer kernel if you want to find the issue Oct 08 14:41:43 mohammadAG, you mean on N900? Oct 08 14:41:44 DrHalan, pop out the battery Oct 08 14:41:52 put it back in and make sure it was charged? Oct 08 14:42:01 before trying anything drastic *shrug Oct 08 14:42:15 yes Oct 08 14:42:32 the only way to "turn it on" is to put in the charger cable and then but the battery in and out again Oct 08 14:42:34 mohammadAGgood news Oct 08 14:44:21 DrHalan, the hardware power button isn't tied to any hardware which shuts down the device (i.e like on a PC), the hardware button is handled b y software Oct 08 14:44:24 by* Oct 08 14:44:32 in Maemo 5, that's mce Oct 08 14:51:27 crashanddie: it says Bahrain: None can tell (nobody answered the phone call). Enough for an assumption that it is still the same today Oct 08 14:52:19 * ShadowJK wants nis n900 back Oct 08 14:52:27 this thing is lie an abacus Oct 08 14:52:31 like Oct 08 14:52:37 * MohammadAG sends ShadowJK his N900 Oct 08 14:52:46 ShadowJK: cold turkey kicking in? Oct 08 14:58:10 mh if im flashing anyways...would you guys recommend meego ? i love bleeding edge stuff but maybe it still is too early Oct 08 14:58:47 meego does not replace the rootfs main maemo OS Oct 08 14:59:09 so for sure try meego but it will not solve your maemo issue Oct 08 15:00:28 DrHalan, too early, I'm running it right now Oct 08 15:00:40 stskeeps: yeah. ssh on 320x240 screen is making me want to brick myself Oct 08 15:00:46 right now, it is in no way a replacement OS Oct 08 15:00:52 oa Oct 08 15:00:58 ShadowJK, Symbian device? Oct 08 15:00:58 mh alright Oct 08 15:01:10 damn there is no flasher-debian package for 64bit Oct 08 15:01:22 --force-architecture Oct 08 15:02:17 Linux mohammad-i5laptop 2.6.35-22-generic #33-Ubuntu SMP Sun Sep 19 20:32:27 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux Oct 08 15:02:20 mohammadAG: yes Oct 08 15:03:00 as I said, it's like a stoneage abacus :-( Oct 08 15:03:07 ShadowJK, shoot yourself in the head, it hurts less Oct 08 15:04:33 So, your assumption is that Nokia is limiting the download of software you don't know the type of based on the already shaky assumption that the software some random dude downloaded had anything to do with encryption, based on the already shaky assumption that Bahrain limits any encryption whatsoever, based on an even more sketchier website where they simply write "We don't know." Oct 08 15:04:58 andax, ^ ; do you see why I have a hard time accepting your argumentation? :P Oct 08 15:08:36 yes, but no, but yes ;-) Oct 08 15:09:15 "During our first survey, we were contacted by telephone by the Embassy of Bahrain in Washington, D.C. and informed that the agency in Manama, Bahrain that was responsible for regulating the use of cryptography was the Directorate of Islamic Affairs, a component of the Ministry of Justice and Islamic Affairs. A direct query to that agency went unanswered." <- i dont think that sounds too... Oct 08 15:09:17 ...sketchy to mention an assumption on top of their story Oct 08 15:27:40 New Fennec beta: As slow and useless as the last. Oct 08 15:28:07 hrm. WinSCP is having a lot of trouble connecting/staying connected to the N900 for some reason. Oct 08 15:28:54 Is Fennec in MeeGo going to be this XUL mess or native? Oct 08 15:29:53 meego 1.1 fennec is my nemesis, currently Oct 08 15:30:01 1.2 will hopefully be better. Oct 08 15:30:44 what's the general concensus on best method of moving a lot of files to the N900? Oct 08 15:31:43 superchode: from what? Oct 08 15:31:49 a PC Oct 08 15:31:54 superchode: USB MSC is fastest Oct 08 15:32:37 ssh connections are sometimes hampered by an access point implementing wifi power savings incorrectly Oct 08 15:32:39 for me, rsync is always substantially slower, even over USB networking with compression Oct 08 15:32:52 a workaround is to fiddle in the n900 connection settings and reduce the power savings level, at the cost of some battery life Oct 08 15:33:05 scp/rsync is slow (but convenient, and wireless) Oct 08 15:33:32 superchode: are these files, in total, a lot of data, or just a large number of small files? Oct 08 15:33:36 yeah. was using scp in the past... it's slow, but was very reliable. not sure why i can't maintain a connection, at the moment Oct 08 15:33:48 usb isn't exactly screaming fast -- mmc write speed becomes the bottleneck, and then hildon-media-thumbnailer starts trying to burn your cpu out Oct 08 15:33:54 drag and drop within win7 generally fails, at some point Oct 08 15:33:54 for hours Oct 08 15:33:55 Sheesh, does Fennec launch a tracker process on first boot or something. . . . Oct 08 15:34:00 well, maybe minutes Oct 08 15:34:07 win7 generally fails, at some point Oct 08 15:34:08 Locked the whole device up cold for a couple of minutes. Oct 08 15:34:23 does anybody know why tracker isn't just run nice? Oct 08 15:34:45 superchode, is it the connection itself thats varying wildly? ie underlying network transport issues Oct 08 15:34:49 try just pinging Oct 08 15:35:06 how can I build 32 bit binary in scratchbox ? There is no general -m32 or --arch option. Oct 08 15:35:16 hi guys, i'm very new to nokia sdk Oct 08 15:35:20 horrible hack, but i feel as if the n900 could be substantially improved with a script to renice a few of the resource hogs after boot Oct 08 15:35:25 anyone know the steps to get it going? Oct 08 15:35:42 ping from the phone or to the phone? Oct 08 15:35:48 hello. Oct 08 15:35:59 BCMM, technically making tracker take longer just extends the pain Oct 08 15:36:11 does anyone know where i can begin to start the sdk? Oct 08 15:36:17 mgedmin, yeah I filed bug against it when I noticed it Oct 08 15:36:36 lcuk: it wouldn't be anything like as bad niced though, would it? Oct 08 15:36:55 BCMM, know what need to get nokia sdk ? Oct 08 15:36:58 try it Oct 08 15:37:06 on like for like tests Oct 08 15:37:07 Phong_: what OS are you on? Oct 08 15:37:12 i'm very new...and interested on progrmming nokia app Oct 08 15:37:13 I somehow doubt nicing would help Oct 08 15:37:14 win xp Oct 08 15:37:14 lcuk: i wouldn't know how Oct 08 15:37:27 lcuk: also, are you saying i should, or retorically saying that you have and it's not nice Oct 08 15:37:28 ? Oct 08 15:37:31 a lot of I/O makes a linux system slow Oct 08 15:37:44 (and also wipes disk caches, with the same result) Oct 08 15:37:45 Phong_: i've never heard of that OS, ask someone else Oct 08 15:38:06 is this a nokia dev chat? Oct 08 15:38:29 is this a Nokia Development chat room? Oct 08 15:38:36 mgedmin: using storage with 0 seek time should substantially reduce the ability of a low-priority, high-IO process to interfere with other processes Oct 08 15:38:48 Phong_, yes, you should be able to create and build and test an app using the nokia qt sdk on your n900 Oct 08 15:38:50 Phong_: this isn't a chat room, it's an IRC channel Oct 08 15:39:22 qt, i dont have a phone yet...so i can't do anything? Oct 08 15:39:23 BCMM, no need to be a pedant Oct 08 15:39:23 Phong_: and in practise, all sorts of things get discussed here, including both user and development issues Oct 08 15:39:31 Phong_, there is a simulator in the sdk Oct 08 15:39:36 but you have to read the docs Oct 08 15:39:37 lcuk: well, i'm getting the impression he doesn't get IRC etiquette yet Oct 08 15:39:41 which version of qt? Oct 08 15:39:47 does it matter? Oct 08 15:39:57 i dont know. m asking u Oct 08 15:40:40 "the SDK" refers to scratchbox, right? Oct 08 15:40:41 what's a Nokia SDK anyway? Oct 08 15:40:54 the Qt one? Oct 08 15:41:18 Phong_, http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html Oct 08 15:41:18 * mgedmin finds http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html Oct 08 15:41:26 :) Oct 08 15:41:35 * lcuk high 5s mgedmin Oct 08 15:41:53 Phong_: for running your app without an n900, there is an environment called scratchbox which can sorta-emulate an n900 Oct 08 15:42:05 Phong_: it runs on linux only, but i believe there is a vmware image or something Oct 08 15:42:34 lcuk is it the 923mb one? Oct 08 15:42:49 Phong_: no vmware involved afaik Oct 08 15:43:03 BCMM: scratchbox1 or 2? Oct 08 15:43:07 Phong_, IDK possibly Oct 08 15:43:21 lcuk, mgedmin: oh, i didn't know about that. how does that fit with scratchbox? is it an alternative? a replacement? Oct 08 15:43:22 I think there were three SDKs for the N900 total: Maemo SDK (scratchbox), MADDE, and now the Nokia Qt SDK Oct 08 15:43:36 or is MADDE just a beta version for the Qt SDK? Oct 08 15:43:42 and how does "the QT Simulator" work? Oct 08 15:43:47 I think MADDE is in the middle of the nokia qt sdk Oct 08 15:44:07 IDK Oct 08 15:44:15 BCMM, now if you we were following etiquette, should we tell you to RTFM Oct 08 15:44:16 come on...guys , think of me as a noob Oct 08 15:44:57 * mgedmin has never used MADDE _or_ the Qt SDK, so /me can't possibly help ... Oct 08 15:44:59 lcuk: which? what i've found is fairly minimal, and somewhat contradictory Oct 08 15:45:24 lcuk, i download the 923MB now Oct 08 15:45:29 Phong_, well try and install it and tell us, the nokia qt sdk is not the standard maemo development target Oct 08 15:45:39 lcuk: btw, all i meant by the etiquette comment was that he'd highlighted me without any reason to think that i could help Oct 08 15:46:13 but if it produces good apps and follows the qt baseline then its a good alternative :) Oct 08 15:46:20 i have not a clue much of what u're saying...just tell me what i need to program for nokia phone Oct 08 15:46:38 i'm currently downloading the qt now...the 923mb one. Oct 08 15:46:52 Phong_, which phone in particular? Are you targeting Symbian or Maemo? Oct 08 15:46:54 so, you are getting the Nokia Qt SDK? Oct 08 15:47:05 the Qt SDK is awesome Oct 08 15:47:06 any idea what SDK means? Oct 08 15:47:10 what is the different maemo Oct 08 15:47:18 different OSes Oct 08 15:47:20 oh Oct 08 15:47:26 the only Nokia phone with Maemo is the N900 Oct 08 15:47:35 what about Nokia n8 Oct 08 15:47:37 or nokia n97 Oct 08 15:47:39 all other Nokia smartphones use Symbian (Series 60, to be more specific) Oct 08 15:47:45 those are Symbian phones Oct 08 15:47:49 ok then i want symbian Oct 08 15:47:49 this channel is for Maemo Oct 08 15:47:54 I know nothing about Symbian Oct 08 15:48:02 i'm in wrong channel? Oct 08 15:48:05 yes Oct 08 15:48:08 wow Oct 08 15:48:13 lol this is crazy for me. Oct 08 15:48:14 yes, well, it's confusing Oct 08 15:48:21 whre can i find the right channel Oct 08 15:48:30 actually, Qt can be used to develop Symbian apps; it may be the Nokia Qt SDK works for both Maemo and Symbian Oct 08 15:48:30 the Nokia Qt SDK also has a symbian device target I believe? Oct 08 15:48:34 I don't know, since I've never used it myself Oct 08 15:49:23 there is only 1 phone device that run maemo Oct 08 15:49:25 ??? Oct 08 15:49:32 hmm Oct 08 15:50:03 please tell me what is the right channel for symbian dev Oct 08 15:51:52 oh, I lied Oct 08 15:51:57 no, I didn't Oct 08 15:52:03 770, N800 and N810 weren't phones Oct 08 15:52:15 mgedmin, n8 is Oct 08 15:53:03 Phong_, what kind of app do you want to write? Oct 08 15:53:20 lcuk learning...not specific Oct 08 15:53:37 lcuk, consider pre-101 symbian Oct 08 15:53:40 ;) Oct 08 15:53:45 the Nokia Qt SDK also has a symbian device target I believe? Oct 08 15:53:53 luck or symbian for dummy Oct 08 15:53:56 yeah, but couldn't find it on the linux version of the SDK Oct 08 15:53:59 n9 will be a meego phone, and meego is the successor to maemo Oct 08 15:54:14 maemo will always be maemo Oct 08 15:54:18 n9? Oct 08 15:54:22 it's N8 Oct 08 15:54:25 meego isn't really a successor, it's a new basebone Oct 08 15:54:34 no, N9, the next Maemo 6 device Oct 08 15:54:41 Harmattan Oct 08 15:55:15 lcuk i have downloaded the qt at 82% completed. Oct 08 15:55:25 luck, pretty big file Oct 08 15:55:34 awesome, irc progress bars Oct 08 15:55:39 lcuk is that all i need? Oct 08 15:55:56 lcuk just the qt? Oct 08 15:56:18 not enough ascii art! Oct 08 15:56:25 [==================> ] 82% Oct 08 15:56:41 I am sure its over 82% now Oct 08 15:56:43 * lcuk hits f5 Oct 08 15:56:48 lol Oct 08 15:56:55 yeah it's 92now Oct 08 15:57:26 lcuk is completed now.. let me do the installation... Oct 08 15:58:29 * mgedmin eagerly awaits ascii-arted screenshots pasted in this channel ... NOT Oct 08 15:59:14 lcuk is that all i need? the qt? Oct 08 15:59:36 the Qt? Oct 08 15:59:51 doesn't sound geeky enough for #maemo :P Oct 08 16:00:11 mohammadAG funny? Oct 08 16:00:23 Ah, you brought me an idea mgedmin, is it possible to run the Ovi Maps from N810 on the N900? I could imagine it is better when using the device offline... Oct 08 16:00:42 meh, ovi maps sucks on both platforms Oct 08 16:00:42 Phong_, are you running on linux or windows Oct 08 16:00:54 windows xp pro. Oct 08 16:00:54 why not use maemo-mapper (which was renamed to Mappero), or Maep? Oct 08 16:01:00 cause as I said above, I couldn't find an S60 emulator on linux.. k Oct 08 16:01:02 mgedmin: no good news :( Oct 08 16:02:38 well, i will try mappero as soon as my package installer works again o_O Oct 08 16:03:33 Mohammad: How about MADDE? Oct 08 16:03:46 Mohammad: It should let you develop Qt apps for Symbian, no? Oct 08 16:23:25 * andax is exploring mappero now :-) Oct 08 16:23:45 maep is faster/slicker; mappero is more featureful Oct 08 16:24:56 mh shouldn't my computer detect the n900 as a mobile storage or so? Oct 08 16:25:30 not straight away Oct 08 16:25:39 you have to click on a phone Oct 08 16:26:38 when you plug in the usb cable, the n900 presents a menu: usb storage / nokia pc suite / charging only Oct 08 16:33:09 is the vanilla PR1.2 kernel available for download somewhere ? (no thanks I don't want to download 180MB for a kernel :D) Oct 08 16:33:36 yes, sec Oct 08 16:34:02 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/zImage.bin Oct 08 16:34:15 thanks! Oct 08 16:34:22 I should remove the .bin, server allows no extension files Oct 08 16:34:26 yw Oct 08 16:35:35 do I need any other file (like an initrd for example) to boot directly with flasher without copying to rootfs ? Oct 08 16:36:12 mh Oct 08 16:36:34 i managed to startup the n900 and saw the loading bar and after that a strange sound game (like a beep) and it turned of.. Oct 08 16:36:56 DrHalan: it''s probably the 'emergency battery shutoff noise. Oct 08 16:36:59 Which is wierd Oct 08 16:37:08 but i have plugged in all the time before.. Oct 08 16:37:13 maybe the charging is broken? :( Oct 08 16:37:27 but i have this yellow light that indicates charging Oct 08 16:37:28 were you tethering? Oct 08 16:38:11 nah i never did that Oct 08 16:38:22 but now i try to connect it to my computer maybe it works then... Oct 08 16:39:14 ~flatbat Oct 08 16:39:26 ~flatbattery Oct 08 16:39:36 is the display supposed to show anything when charging? Oct 08 16:39:39 Nokia: 3000 mAh tablet battery!? << what? Oct 08 16:39:42 no Oct 08 16:39:48 not if it's very flat Oct 08 16:39:54 ~help Oct 08 16:40:35 pupnik_: ? Oct 08 16:41:30 SpeedEvil: look how easly 3000 mAh fits Oct 08 16:44:14 pupnik_, err... Oct 08 16:44:32 if a 3000 mAh battery has the same size as a 1320 one, it's not 3000 Oct 08 16:44:54 fits within the form factor MohammadAG - 2x 1500mAh Oct 08 16:45:12 covers cam Oct 08 16:45:17 you could get 4000 mAh if you didn't need space for wifi and camera Oct 08 16:47:31 you can get 60Ah if you are willing to carry 10kg battery with you Oct 08 16:47:55 bme will probably blow up Oct 08 16:48:19 60Ah ...hm ... Oct 08 16:48:25 * SpeedEvil wants a step-charger. Oct 08 16:50:13 does the device have to be turned on to be flashed? seems like it only gets detected when running.. Oct 08 16:50:53 ~flashing Oct 08 16:50:54 flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 08 16:52:16 can I access rootfs when the device is stuck in a reboot loop ? :S Oct 08 16:54:19 you'll need a script, backupmenu would be one Oct 08 16:54:23 to start an ssh server Oct 08 16:54:41 or you could install a minimal backup OS with USB networking, then isntall Oct 08 16:54:46 install a custom kernel for that Oct 08 16:54:50 meego would be one Oct 08 16:55:00 though it's not exactly minimal Oct 08 16:55:10 argh -.- Oct 08 16:55:24 I tried a minimal OS, http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd Oct 08 16:55:25 400MB download Oct 08 16:55:28 the usb logo doesn't appear so guess the battery isN#t charged Oct 08 16:55:50 it didn't expose rootfs. Just the eMMC Oct 08 16:56:27 jacktheripper, Oct 08 16:56:27 and if I get MeeGo, wouldn't I have to flash rootfs ? :D Oct 08 16:56:36 load ubifs module Oct 08 16:56:39 then mount it Oct 08 16:56:55 jacktheripper, meego doesn't fit in 256MBs Oct 08 16:57:16 how's it installed on N900s then ? Oct 08 16:58:12 and how do I load that module ? (USB recovery mode still doesn't give me rootfs, even at /) Oct 08 16:59:16 modprobe ubifs? Oct 08 16:59:44 oh on my PC. AFAIR I didn't find a device file related to rootfs Oct 08 17:04:40 does it make sense to flash my device to the newest firmwareß Oct 08 17:05:38 or does the package manager take care of that? Oct 08 17:05:58 You might as well flash it with the newest fw from the start. Why not? Oct 08 17:08:26 well iirc maemo has a package manager. does it update the system stuff too? Oct 08 17:08:56 yes Oct 08 17:09:13 so flashing wouldn't change anything Oct 08 17:09:57 it would overwrite it Oct 08 17:14:42 32GB MicroSDHCs are now<$100 Oct 08 17:14:55 Boooring. Oct 08 17:15:02 I want a 32 exabyte card. Oct 08 17:15:04 Of course they are Class2, so beware Oct 08 17:15:05 ... but still slow... :) Oct 08 17:15:07 And a puppy. Oct 08 17:15:39 http://www.anandtech.com/show/3967/the-tmobile-g2-preview/2 wtf is that plastic hinge thing Oct 08 17:33:14 hi, does anyone know how long developer account activation takes? I need to use the Autobuilder. Thanks Oct 08 17:39:42 James_Littler, it took less than 24hrs for me. Oct 08 17:42:10 great, thanks Oct 08 17:53:55 is there such as qt plug in for eclipse? Oct 08 17:59:49 hi RevdKathy Oct 08 18:00:55 Hi MohammadAG! Hi all. :) Oct 08 18:03:50 hi Oct 08 18:04:12 hi guys, i'm trying to make a video screencast on n900 and to achieve most optimal results, I use rawvideo ffmeg codec and convert it to mp4 on standalone computer. Everything seems to be great and fps is around 15frames, but I have one problem - the video after encoding to mpeg4 moves from the right to left - looks like some issues with vertical synchronization. Oct 08 18:04:15 Phong_: Yes. Oct 08 18:04:30 Phong_: http://qt.nokia.com/developer/eclipse-integration/ Oct 08 18:04:46 on the n900, I run such command: ffmpeg -f x11grab -vsync 0 -s 800x480 -r 15 -i :0.0 -vcodec rawvideo -sameq -y test.avi Oct 08 18:05:39 then copy test.avi over scp to my desktop and then run: ffmpeg -vcodec rawvideo -pix_fmt rgb565 -r 15 -s 800x480 -f rawvideo -i ./test.avi -r 15 -sameq -vcodec mpeg4 -y output.avi Oct 08 18:06:45 Any suggestions? Video just slowly moves to the left, like the 0 X-coordinate constantly descreasing in loop.. Oct 08 18:20:42 why Oct 08 18:20:45 d jaaksi resing? Oct 08 18:21:12 it just can't be bootloop > reflash. There has to be an easier way to recovery :S Oct 08 18:21:32 hello? Oct 08 18:36:53 jacktheripper: backupmenu Oct 08 18:36:55 tybollt, nobody knows. Oct 08 18:38:27 GAN900: well that is frankly a load of BS :) Oct 08 18:39:00 'there are people in this very channel whom I am 110% certain knows _exactly_, granted, they are probably on NDA :) Oct 08 18:39:34 but really - there must be some kind of speculation going on :) Oct 08 18:39:52 * tybollt reading TMO for the first time in ... long time :) Oct 08 18:41:27 kerio, and if I already bootlooped my device without even knowing there was a solution ? is there anything that can help me ? Oct 08 18:41:33 hmm Oct 08 18:41:34 prayer? Oct 08 18:41:58 see ? that's what I'm talking about xD Oct 08 18:42:21 jacktheripper: reflashing isn't a big deal Oct 08 18:42:28 jacktheripper: you may only need to reflash the kernel Oct 08 18:42:35 BCMM, I don't want my tons of apps removed Oct 08 18:42:48 hmm Oct 08 18:43:07 jacktheripper: there are various types of reflash Oct 08 18:43:10 Hi, I want to start developing with the NokiaQtSDK for Maemo and MADDY, is there a proper Documentation/Getting started Anywhere? Oct 08 18:43:14 jacktheripper: it is possible to flash just the kernel Oct 08 18:43:18 BCMM, yes I noticed Oct 08 18:44:08 jacktheripper: well, that doesn't involve losing your apps Oct 08 18:44:28 I think the problem lies in the power kernel, before the loop, I had just removed the kernel (through apt-get (big mistake ?)) and rebooted. It still boots using it. Oct 08 18:44:32 anyone know how that works, btw? is there a little bit of dedicated memory just for the bootloader somewhere? Oct 08 18:44:51 tybollt, OK, nobody HERE knows who can talk about it. Oct 08 18:44:51 jacktheripper: well, power kernel does come with large warnings to not do that Oct 08 18:45:02 jacktheripper: i thought you said it didn't boot? Oct 08 18:45:04 GAN900: thank you :) Oct 08 18:45:27 BCMM, boot loop Oct 08 18:45:28 jacktheripper: anyway, it seems like you have no kernel. flash a kernel to the device Oct 08 18:45:52 BCMM, I have a kernel. R&D mode shows the kernel name. If I flash only the kernel image will it fix this ? Oct 08 18:46:04 jacktheripper: i don't know Oct 08 18:46:12 i can't remember how R&D mode works Oct 08 18:46:22 not about that. Oct 08 18:46:33 R&D shows some info on the Nokia screen, it shows the kernel name. Oct 08 18:46:45 I was asking if flashing the kernel would replace the power kernel. Oct 08 18:46:57 GAN900: still when there Oct 08 18:47:15 GAN900: still when there's not even a good hint out there it smells fishy. Coverup etc... :-/ Oct 08 18:47:37 tybollt, given my experience, I'm not sure what to make of it. Oct 08 18:47:37 jacktheripper: flashing the kernel will cause you to use whatever kernel you flashed, if that's what you mean Oct 08 18:47:48 Although it doesn't particularly bother me. Oct 08 18:47:55 BCMM, good enough. Do I need the FIASCO image or there's some other 'smaller' solution ? Oct 08 18:47:59 gan: It does me Oct 08 18:48:02 jacktheripper: i don't know Oct 08 18:48:05 did anyone try to grab video from the framebuffer with ffmpeg rawvideo demuxer? Oct 08 18:48:12 BCMM, ok, thanks for the help Oct 08 18:48:13 Jaaksi was never really very open source in his approach to open source. Oct 08 18:48:30 ugh ok? Oct 08 18:48:35 GAN900: though Oct 08 18:48:40 So I wouldn't assume it had anything to do with the company shifting in a direction we might not like. Oct 08 18:48:57 I don't really care about that, more like why did he leave - what is about to happen that he is leaving because of ;) Oct 08 18:49:13 GAN900: uhuh Oct 08 18:49:31 GAN900: there rumours nokia's up for sale has been floating around for some time Oct 08 18:49:37 jacktheripper: so does it boot in r&d mode or what? Oct 08 18:49:45 tybollt, sure, he basically brought the use of open source technology to Nokia, but he was never one to put open source ideals into practice. Oct 08 18:49:54 jacktheripper: i don't know how it works; is it possible that it displays the name of the kernel before trying to load it? Oct 08 18:49:56 tybollt, I can't see it. Oct 08 18:50:11 Not the arrogant Finns. Oct 08 18:50:29 BCMM, I don't really know what R&D mode is. So far, it does nothing but displaying some extra information and disabling watchdogs (those reboot the device automatically if it didn't boot the 'official' way) Oct 08 18:51:11 in any case, it sounds like you need to flash a kernel Oct 08 18:51:28 BCMM, I will. Oct 08 18:51:39 Well all finns are arrogant really... Oct 08 18:51:43 so is there a seperate bit of memory just for loading the kernel from or what? Oct 08 18:52:03 tybollt, I think the biggest thing we're likely to see from his resignation will be the direction his replacement decides to push things in. Oct 08 18:52:45 will there be one? Oct 08 18:53:40 praps they'll replace him w/ an intel exec and skew meego@nokia Oct 08 18:53:42 ' Oct 08 18:56:02 Hehe Oct 08 18:57:55 * RST38h is practically forcing himself not to unsubscribe from Mohammad's threads Oct 08 18:58:18 Heavy, incredibly heavy lemmng infestation. And yes, their N900s are all broken and nothing works for them. Oct 08 19:01:16 BCMM, the kernel and most of the filesystem is on rootfs. Oct 08 19:01:26 jacktheripper: so how does flashing the kernel work? Oct 08 19:01:34 BCMM, copy/paste :D Oct 08 19:02:01 BCMM, it isn't really 'flashing'. Rootfs can be written to like any other filesystem. The kernel is just copied onto it Oct 08 19:02:07 ah Oct 08 19:02:20 so how does the boot process work? presumably there is some kind of custom bootloader? Oct 08 19:04:01 Umm I try to use a emulator for the N900 with madde (atm freemantle ) but at boot it says "no initfs" Oct 08 19:07:42 ignore that Oct 08 19:07:44 that's normall Oct 08 19:08:12 hmm i cant even ping the emulator Oct 08 19:09:03 because it's not booting probably Oct 08 19:09:11 you should get something after that no initfs Oct 08 19:09:19 but no initfs isn't the problem itself Oct 08 19:09:28 :D i thought so, but I cant find andy documentation about setting it properly up Oct 08 19:09:55 *any Oct 08 19:13:08 Could you probably tell me where to find one? :) Oct 08 19:15:40 Your N900 will really feel slim after using it in an OtterBox for a month or so. Oct 08 19:18:35 moin Oct 08 19:37:46 sigh Oct 08 19:38:23 symbian... 3 bars battery left, 5 seconds later it decides battery is low, terminates all my apps and switches to some useless "energy saving" profile. I open energy profiler and battery is at 3.76V. wtf. Oct 08 19:49:26 Ha Oct 08 19:49:41 ShadowJK, we're all laughing at your suffering. Oct 08 19:49:59 Wait, I mean sympathizing with your loss. Oct 08 19:50:05 Yeah, that's the one. Oct 08 19:50:25 Hello Oct 08 19:50:40 i can't flash my n810 because of the boot menu thing :( Oct 08 19:50:46 trying to enable "rd" mode Oct 08 19:51:07 bootmenu runs after the flashing stuff.. Oct 08 19:51:35 ran maemo-flash --enable-rd-mode on the PC, says no suitable device, waiting..... Oct 08 19:51:57 then turned on the n810 while connected to the usb port... went directly to the boot menu stuff Oct 08 19:52:15 did you hold in the button that brings up the program list? Oct 08 19:52:26 xterm on the pc was still saying "waiting..." (oh and loading the CPU to 100%) Oct 08 19:52:37 program list? Oct 08 19:53:11 you mean the list of running tasks while using maemo normally? Oct 08 19:53:17 <--- confused :? Oct 08 19:53:25 yeah Oct 08 19:53:44 I think that was the one Oct 08 19:54:16 oh, i installed a package that modifies the behaviour of the "2 squares overlapping" button... changes it to a kind of mac osx "tile up all open windows" kind of thing Oct 08 19:54:35 well, packages don't run on boot Oct 08 19:54:43 exactly Oct 08 19:54:44 so it shouldn't matter what you've installed Oct 08 19:54:52 But yeah, the 2 squares overlapping button Oct 08 19:55:05 but, thing is, i dont remember what that button does (in normal use) by default :D Oct 08 19:55:13 (the one with 2 squares overlapping in diagonal) Oct 08 19:55:33 so i think you may have meant that one when you said 15:52 < ShadowJK> did you hold in the button that brings up the program list? Oct 08 19:56:11 oh and im so smart i dont even remember the name of that package :/ Oct 08 19:56:54 Yes I meant the two squares overlapping in diagnoal button Oct 08 19:57:11 ah ok, thanks =) trying that now. Oct 08 19:57:46 "hile holding the Home/Swap button (It's a house on the 770 and N800, and two overlapping rectangles on the N810), power on the device by holding the power button. You should see a Nokia logo in the middle of the screen, and a USB icon in the top right corner. " Oct 08 19:57:55 hile=While Oct 08 19:57:59 actually i did try it the other day (while connected to usb) but without maemo-flasher "waiting" for it Oct 08 19:58:10 ok, lets try it out Oct 08 19:58:18 flasher v2.5.2 (Oct 21 2009) Oct 08 19:58:19 Suitable USB device not found, waiting. Oct 08 19:58:35 Did you start flasher before plugging in N810 to USB? Oct 08 19:58:51 yeah... well at least before turning on the n810 Oct 08 19:59:17 It's a long time since I flashed my N800 and N810, but I think I started flasher before plugging in USB even Oct 08 19:59:50 right now i have the maemo-flasher saying that Oct 08 19:59:51 ok Oct 08 20:00:02 unplug usb cable, replug... Oct 08 20:00:09 done Oct 08 20:00:35 which i dont really see how it should make a difference... lsusb doesnt even show the nokia when its turned off Oct 08 20:01:05 ~flash Oct 08 20:01:06 flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 08 20:01:57 so iirc. if i hold down a button even before turning the device on, it will still detect that it's pressed down, right? Oct 08 20:02:09 yes Oct 08 20:03:13 nope... connected to usb, holding down two-squares and turn it on, still goes straight to the bootmenu thing :/ Oct 08 20:03:32 :/ Oct 08 20:03:46 and since that button brings up the "network-over-usb" recovery mode in the bootmenu, it just goes straight to that Oct 08 20:04:27 oh, other question... how wound one go about changing the delay before default selection is made, on bootmenu? Oct 08 20:05:09 is there something like liloconfig on pc....? Oct 08 20:05:25 It's really strange, I seem to remember that my N810 would display Nokia and USB icon if I pressed swap on boot, even if USB wasn't plugged in at all Oct 08 20:06:01 yeah me too.... seems the bootmenu thing killed all ways to get to that :/ Oct 08 20:06:16 GAN900, I feel like I'm Pitr: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20040303 (and next ones in the series) Oct 08 20:07:05 so when you're on that startup screen ie. white screen with "NOKIA" logo and blue USB icon in the top right... that's just firmware/hardware running right? no maemo kernel or anything? Oct 08 20:07:14 (at that point in the boot sequence)? Oct 08 20:07:55 ...so it's not at all dependant on whatever contents of the internal or external flash/sd/etc....? Oct 08 20:08:05 right Oct 08 20:08:21 Is there any harm in putting a thin computer between the battery and the case in N900? Oct 08 20:08:24 Well, kernel might actually replace nokia logo with nokia logo too.. Oct 08 20:09:00 luke-jr, dunno, cellular on mine was dying from the slightest pressure on battery cover Oct 08 20:09:01 that would make things like, very confusing :/ and uselessly imho Oct 08 20:09:43 eg, a spare SIM card or 2 Oct 08 20:10:08 ShadowJK, hehe. Oct 08 20:10:16 * delt tries fiddling around with the bootmenu settings in "pb" / "pbeasy" ...... Oct 08 20:11:14 bah Oct 08 20:11:22 "SIM card regiztration failed" Oct 08 20:11:33 N8x0 might go from NOLO straight to batery charging, when battery voltage is too low Oct 08 20:12:53 ah PenguinBait ...was trying to remember what PB stood for the other day ...knew it was someone's username =) Oct 08 20:12:54 oh great Oct 08 20:13:00 now SIM reg fails all the time Oct 08 20:13:34 whoah :) Oct 08 20:17:13 hmm.... in pb "select default boot device" just lists the 256mb partition :/ Oct 08 20:17:43 <--- tries "cancel" then "scan for disk changes, update info".... Oct 08 20:19:40 nope.. other tasks in "pb" can see the internal flash, but "select boot device" only lists /dev/mtdblock4 (size 256mb_used_blahblahblah) Oct 08 20:20:31 (let's try booting from the backup (256mb) and running pb from there.....) Oct 08 20:20:55 oh sorry thinking aloud here... uh i mean thinking atype hre Oct 08 20:20:57 here Oct 08 20:21:50 delt: what is it you really want to do? Oct 08 20:21:53 at this point I'd probably try remove the battery, keep flasher running on PC, disconnect usb, hold in swap key, insert usb, insert battery, press power key. Still holding swap Oct 08 20:21:55 grumble Oct 08 20:22:03 DocScrutinizer, i think he wants to flash Oct 08 20:22:10 can "SIM card registration failed" mean anything other than "broken SIM"? Oct 08 20:22:16 [2010-10-08 22:09:46] N8x0 might go from NOLO straight to batery charging, when battery voltage is too low Oct 08 20:22:45 DocScrutinizer: 1. enable/disable "rd" mode, 2. change the delay "bootmenu" waits before loading default partition (from infinity to like, 0 or 1 second) Oct 08 20:22:59 luke-jr_: yes, it may mean your carrier refused sim to book in Oct 08 20:23:18 luke-jr, anything fun in dmesh? Oct 08 20:23:20 dmesg Oct 08 20:23:28 any way to tell if it's broken SIM or T-Mobile not liking me? Oct 08 20:24:05 try sim in other device Oct 08 20:24:25 ShadowJK: when it there *anything* in dmesg? :P Oct 08 20:24:30 DocScrutinizer: what other device? Oct 08 20:24:38 there was when my N900 started malfunctioning Oct 08 20:25:02 suppose I can boot Gentoo and try it there… Oct 08 20:25:02 DocScrutinizer: btw, there's a package i installed -before- cloning my 256mb jffs2 to the internal 2gb partition, that changes the behaviour of the "home / "2 squares overlapping in diagonal" button ..... and im so smart i dont remember the name of that package :/ Oct 08 20:25:08 from maemo-extras (i THINK) Oct 08 20:26:21 anyway, that's for bonus points =) Oct 08 20:28:06 ok, running "pb" from the 256mb jffs2 as root, now let's see...... Oct 08 20:28:38 delt: you have a full battery? You unplugged N810 from charger so it's really off when powering it on? Oct 08 20:29:07 delt: please read Oct 08 20:29:08 really off when powering it on? uh.... Oct 08 20:29:10 ~flash Oct 08 20:29:11 flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 08 20:30:08 delt: "off" while charging doesn't really mean you can enter flashing mode by "powering up while holding home button" Oct 08 20:30:26 as "off" with charging actually is act_dead Oct 08 20:30:28 it's never off if charger is connected Oct 08 20:30:36 weird thing is, im pretty sure i selected 1 second as the delay in "pb" .... but now it asks me to select partition for several minutes, then switches back off Oct 08 20:31:00 if it goes as far as bootmenu, it's too late for flasher Oct 08 20:31:10 DocScrutinizer: turned off as in, press the "power" button (top ledge, in the middle) then select "turn device off"? Oct 08 20:31:57 delt: PLEASE read Oct 08 20:32:00 ~flash Oct 08 20:32:00 i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 08 20:32:58 answering whether charger is connected or not should be easy enough :) Oct 08 20:33:01 reading.... (thanks for your concern!!) Oct 08 20:33:01 delt: for flashing N8x0/770 the device MUST NOT be connected to power supply Oct 08 20:33:48 yeah, the docs mentioned that... and thinking about it, .... yeah when its connected to the charger, it's never really completely turned off.... Oct 08 20:34:03 see? :-D Oct 08 20:34:19 because there has to be SOME intelligent programming checking the batterly level(s) otherwise it will shorten the battery's live Oct 08 20:34:26 s/live/life Oct 08 20:34:28 s/live/life/ Oct 08 20:34:28 delt meant: s/life/life Oct 08 20:34:29 sry Oct 08 20:34:36 s/ live/ life/ Oct 08 20:34:37 Error activating /n900/primarycontext8: org.ofono.Error.NotAttached: GPRS is not attached Oct 08 20:34:37 yes Oct 08 20:34:41 any idea what that means? Oct 08 20:34:58 um... again, just thinking alou....uh i mean atype =) Oct 08 20:35:46 yeah, if the device is turned off completely, and current is still going to the battery, then eventually it will lose its "zero" point and only hold smaller and smaller charges Oct 08 20:36:13 like an electric razor, if you keep it plugged all the time Oct 08 20:36:57 that's mostly bullshit :) Oct 08 20:37:29 * delt ? Oct 08 20:38:01 uf current goes into battery without stopping, battery explodes Oct 08 20:38:05 if* Oct 08 20:38:11 X-P Oct 08 20:38:14 (completely unrelated to the page above on wiki.maemo.org Oct 08 20:38:15 ) Oct 08 20:39:15 delt: 770/N8x0 has software controlled charging. It can not charge battery without a booted system Oct 08 20:39:22 electric razor probably has a nimh battery which tolerates some small amount of overcharge. the charge circuitry probably never stops charging. the best nimh batteries can take a year or so of that kkind of charging Oct 08 20:39:23 um.... so you say the "bootmenu" thing runs AFTER actual kernel boot. Does it read a config file from the FS, or....? Oct 08 20:40:00 probably, but how's that related to flashing? Oct 08 20:40:29 DocScrutinizer: so its like the razor thing..? i remember when i was a kid, in germany, my dad had an electric razor he always kept plugged to the wall socket Oct 08 20:41:01 worked fine that way, but when he unplugged it, he couldn't figure out why it slowed down and died after like 10 seconds Oct 08 20:41:04 delt: google for NiMH memory effect Oct 08 20:41:20 or nicad if it was that long ago Oct 08 20:41:25 actually NiCd Oct 08 20:41:37 yeah Oct 08 20:41:39 nox-: yep Oct 08 20:41:42 nicad memory effect is mostly a myth Oct 08 20:41:48 nope Oct 08 20:42:19 but keeping it plugged in is a sure way to kill the batteries all without involving memory effect. Oct 08 20:42:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_effect Oct 08 20:43:19 anyway, sw charging of N8x0 LiPo has no link whatsoever to memory effect or deterioration by overcharging of NiCd/NiMH Oct 08 20:43:28 so, as i suspected this is why 16:39 < DocScrutinizer> delt: 770/N8x0 has software controlled charging. It can not charge battery without a booted system Oct 08 20:43:59 a simple fix would be to include a simple voltage checking circuit between the battery and charger input? Oct 08 20:44:11 yes, basically Oct 08 20:44:11 (not an electronics expert, but first thought....) Oct 08 20:44:17 Once the battery is fully charged, it starts producing hydrogen. There's a mechanism in place to recombine it, but it can only handle so much. The battery slowly vents excess hydrogen and loses water. it dries up Oct 08 20:44:17 and that's what N900 has Oct 08 20:45:37 and most mp3 players like ipod, sandisk etc etc.... but you can kill the battery if you just leave it charging on some weird configuration, like an old version of rockbox and some unknown charger thing Oct 08 20:46:01 delt: please make sure you have a fully charged battery, and no charger connected, when trying to flash Oct 08 20:47:11 [x] check Oct 08 20:47:25 remove full battery, start flasher, plug in USB, hold home button, power up N8x0 Oct 08 20:48:00 remove full battery, start flasher, plug in USB, insert battery, hold home button, power up N8x0 Oct 08 20:48:05 uh.... remove full battery as in, physically take it out of the n810? Oct 08 20:48:13 yes Oct 08 20:48:15 aaahh ok i get it Oct 08 20:48:29 sorry, hadnt even read the rest of that line :3 Oct 08 20:48:32 hey guys, anyone have any linkage for modifying the menu bar in os2008? Oct 08 20:49:10 so, even if the screen is black, and no keys are responding... doesn't necessarily mean it is completely off? Oct 08 20:49:31 i know about the applications.menu file but doesnt seem to be exactly what im looking for Oct 08 20:49:53 "nokiiii, you're just pretending to sleep!!! i know you're awake!" Oct 08 20:50:00 why is the screen scrolling on N900 is sluggish alot! Oct 08 20:50:10 swapping? Oct 08 20:50:12 3D engine is bad Oct 08 20:51:53 DocScrutinizer: thanks for the tip! but, question: just out of curiosity, what would be the difference between "plug in USB, insert battery" or the other way around? Oct 08 20:52:24 (if there is any) Oct 08 20:52:51 no diff probably Oct 08 20:53:19 device might accidentally boot up on battery insert Oct 08 20:53:31 which isn't helpful Oct 08 20:53:43 oh... and how does plugging the USB first prevent that? Oct 08 20:54:09 anyway, probably a good idea to hold home button during plug in USB, insert battery, and power up Oct 08 20:54:54 (prevent) it's supposed to start flashing when booting up to a waiting flasher connected to USB Oct 08 20:55:08 ah ok thanks =) so if i only have 2 hands? :D jk Oct 08 20:56:38 nota bene: if your battery is too low voltage (not completely charged) then NOLO may decide to ignore all flashing action and directly boot system to charge battery Oct 08 20:57:13 so make sure your battery is fully charged Oct 08 20:57:17 uh ooops... ALMOST did it, but i released (and pressed back down) the "home" button during operation "put battery-cove back" :3 Oct 08 20:57:33 its like at 90% nwo Oct 08 20:57:38 s/nwo/now/ Oct 08 20:57:39 delt meant: its like at 90% now Oct 08 21:00:20 oh, second hand... no wait make that 3rd hand battery. my brother had this n810 for a bit less than a year, which he bought from someone in Ontario. Then i bought it from my brother. Oct 08 21:00:45 (*#($*)# T-Mobile Oct 08 21:01:50 so DocScrutinizer: holding down "home" button ie. 2-diagonal-squares ALL ALONG with no interruption, or if i accidentally release it when flipping the n810 over i have to start uh.... "over :)" ? Oct 08 21:03:50 delt: just hold it down during possible power up events, so if you insert battery and that doesn't cause device to start up, then there's no need to keep it pressed until you power it up by next action Oct 08 21:04:10 ah, thats what i thought, thanks =) Oct 08 21:04:44 so, re-removed the battery, stopped maemo-flasher (ctrl+c) ... unplugged usb... Oct 08 21:05:55 luke-jr_, they knocked you off just bc you tried some dual-sim `hacks'? Oct 08 21:06:53 nox-: probably because he tried to tunnel everything thru DNS Oct 08 21:07:04 haha Oct 08 21:07:17 mmm... nope... still getting the boot menu stuff first :( Oct 08 21:07:22 lately, every time I've entered this channel the topic is restoring someone's misflashed N900/N8x0 =) Oct 08 21:07:42 delt: charge your battery Oct 08 21:07:43 did someone finally posted that device-bricker on tmo? Oct 08 21:07:48 javispedro, clearly you should stop breaking people's devices, then. Oct 08 21:07:59 which goes straight to usb-over-network recover mode since i have "home" pressed down Oct 08 21:08:19 DocScrutinizer: so 85% - 90% is not enough? Oct 08 21:08:35 GAN900: heh, or try to perfect my methodology =) Oct 08 21:08:47 typically in N8x0, 3 out of 4 bars means 50%.. Oct 08 21:08:55 yeah; nokia ui logic... Oct 08 21:09:01 delt: obviously - though I wonder what makes you think it's at 85-90 Oct 08 21:09:32 ShadowJK: i have that "extras" package that changes the battery thing to a better one + menu where it says exact % Oct 08 21:09:47 ...or was that in extras...? i think so Oct 08 21:10:50 anyway, putting the n810 on charger for now..... Oct 08 21:11:32 oh DocScrutinizer: that option in bootmenu "Power off (when not on charger)" should reliably power off the n810? ie. no need to remove battery etc etc...? Oct 08 21:12:07 dunno Oct 08 21:12:15 MohammadAG51: there? Oct 08 21:12:18 probably Oct 08 21:12:49 mkay, anyway same behaviour here when doing 16:48 < DocScrutinizer> remove full battery, start flasher, plug in USB, insert battery, hold home button, power up N8x0 Oct 08 21:13:28 [10549.280975] HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered the fuck Oct 08 21:13:54 you'd be surprised at how many times your desktop GFX also resets itself Oct 08 21:14:04 so... is there a VERY DETAILED page with all technical info about BOOTMENU somewhere? Oct 08 21:14:59 i just re-ran "pb" and selected zero seconds as delay... still shows me the list of partitions (2 partitions + power off when not on charger) for several minutes then switches off Oct 08 21:16:55 and before installing bootmenu, this always worked fine (turn off, hold down home while turning on) ... without all that remove battery, THEN plug in usb, THEN put battery back in etc... crap Oct 08 21:17:57 delt: damn, then deinstall bootmenu! it won't change anything probably, except it boots normal system then instead of bootmenu Oct 08 21:18:18 charge your friggin battery! Oct 08 21:18:40 DocScrutinizer: 1. how? 2. will do Oct 08 21:18:46 there's no bq27xxx -- so it might be hard to do if the device does not boot Oct 08 21:18:51 bulk q&a =) Oct 08 21:19:45 i'd presume bootmenu isn't a package that gets installed on the root filesystem? (esp. since it isnt even mounted yet!!) Oct 08 21:20:07 hello folks I need help. how do I install something in N900 using terminal? when I try with apt-get install package it tells me I am not root. when I use sudo it asks for password which I don't know Oct 08 21:21:23 if that was the case, i guess i could run the app. manager and then there would be an app called "Change your N8x0 into a N900" that would actually change the CPU, memory, flash chips, etc... whoa! =) Oct 08 21:21:55 Antonis: you need to do this first http://wiki.maemo.org/Root Oct 08 21:22:38 worst thing is, root account doesn't even have a password iirc =) Oct 08 21:22:58 so it can't log in ;p Oct 08 21:23:50 "sudo gainroot" i think is the 'normal' way to get a root "shell" (that is, "busybox" posing as a shell) Oct 08 21:24:10 I've made it so I get bash Oct 08 21:24:33 I think I just made an extra alias 'root' for that though Oct 08 21:24:38 javispedro, yeah, but this znc is lagging like hell! (pokes DocScrutinizer) Oct 08 21:25:20 sorry MohammadAG51, pm'd you Oct 08 21:26:37 for a while i had /bin/sh -> bash but someone here on #maemo said it was a bad idea... Oct 08 21:27:04 since busybox's "sh" mode emulated a "ash" shell type iirc Oct 08 21:27:53 thanks joga Oct 08 21:28:43 nox-: I didn't try anything Oct 08 21:28:56 they knocked me off because i didn't refill within 90 days Oct 08 21:29:03 and claim they can't reactivate it Oct 08 21:29:10 so I'm just serviceless again Oct 08 21:29:11 oh well ☹ Oct 08 21:29:12 oh Oct 08 21:29:23 unless there's a way to crack their network Oct 08 21:29:25 one more thing, since I don't actually have N900 but try to help a friend, when I go to application manager where exactly do I find the apps to install? I mean, I have enabled Extras, but when I tell him go to application manager and install he says there is no app list or something Oct 08 21:29:25 wtf?? wiki.maemo.org search "bootmenu" ---> Oct 08 21:29:26 There is no page titled "bootmenu". You can create this page. Oct 08 21:29:56 partial matches, etc etc... blablabla.... Oct 08 21:30:12 so anyone telling me to RTFM can go WTFM Oct 08 21:30:20 luke-jr_, was that prepaid? (xtracard or whatever its called?) Oct 08 21:30:31 Prepaid, yes Oct 08 21:30:53 ok, so enought ranting, whining & shit for today.... cya Oct 08 21:31:56 luke-jr_, where are you, u.s.? Oct 08 21:32:07 as a prepaid owner I sometimes feel like if I where public enemy #1 of my carrier.... Oct 08 21:32:12 *were Oct 08 21:32:23 heh Oct 08 21:32:50 * nox- currently on `pennymobil' bc most of the time i use wifi... Oct 08 21:33:10 * SpeedEvil is using T-mobile prepaid in the UK. Oct 08 21:33:23 nox-: yes Oct 08 21:33:27 MohammadAG51: znc is fine Oct 08 21:33:27 6 months 1G/mo internet for 20 quid. (~$30) Oct 08 21:33:32 nevermind he is blind :P Oct 08 21:33:35 Antonis: in app manager there's download Oct 08 21:33:37 heh Oct 08 21:33:47 hehe yeap found it :d Oct 08 21:34:11 * javispedro gets Euro 1.5 for 1day/10MiB :( Oct 08 21:36:06 and they won't make me a real offer even after spending _too much_ on their stupid services because of "emergencies". Oct 08 21:36:14 damn n900. they should have made another tablet! Oct 08 21:36:49 luke-jr_, ok then i dont know much about your notwork, but current sims can't be `cracked' i think Oct 08 21:37:05 SIMs don't need to be cracked, carriers do Oct 08 21:37:13 and probably not because N900 is too closed Oct 08 21:50:51 uh quick question: i plug the n810 into the charger and i get: white nokia screen for 2 seconds, then boot menu. is this normal? Oct 08 21:51:33 no, not really Oct 08 21:52:24 Myrtti: was that in reply to my question? Oct 08 21:54:16 ok so anyway... Oct 08 21:54:24 DocScrutinizer: charging battery..... Oct 08 21:56:13 is a reboot loop with a desktop any better than a reboot loop without a desktop ? Oct 08 21:56:21 DocScrutinizer: n810 was turned off, and well, like i said above :/ Oct 08 21:57:06 jacktheripper: i'd tend to say better, because whatever causes the reboot happens later in the startup sequence? Oct 08 21:57:32 but that's just me, and i dont know much about maemo :/ Oct 08 21:57:34 delt, of course. But is it better towards fixing it ? Oct 08 21:57:40 ah Oct 08 22:00:08 well, i'd say since more stuff is already loaded/init'd/etc...you have more tools available to fix it. (just my un-educated guess) Oct 08 22:05:03 T-Mobile idiots tried to sell me a $25/mo data plan that's 200 MB… Oct 08 22:05:14 Wow. Oct 08 22:05:21 so I just pointed out that I'd need to limit my usage to less than dialup to use that :p Oct 08 22:05:33 since dialup can pass 200 MB in under a da Oct 08 22:06:18 sigh Oct 08 22:06:32 USA is so third-world country :/ Oct 08 22:06:35 ... and they sued you for libel? Oct 08 22:06:40 javispedro: what? Oct 08 22:06:46 =) Oct 08 22:07:01 I mean T-Mobile, not USA =) Oct 08 22:07:25 I miss the prepaid plan they just killed off on me :< Oct 08 22:07:41 in practice I wasn't paying anything since they only billed for voice service Oct 08 22:08:11 heh Oct 08 22:08:37 luke-jr_, hey, at least we still have more of our freedom than most of the world. *g* Oct 08 22:08:39 curiously, the lady on the phone told me they have "excellent coverage" here Oct 08 22:08:46 GAN900: only slightly Oct 08 22:09:09 my carrier hates me for not using text or voice even though I dutifully pay data, so... Oct 08 22:09:15 luke-jr_, better than not at all. ;) Oct 08 22:09:28 javispedro: so they'll eventually just turn you off too? :p Oct 08 22:09:36 luke-jr_, and per-state BS doesn't count. :P Oct 08 22:10:15 javispedro: I actually said that on the phone when they claimed to be hte best deal Oct 08 22:10:22 "not compared to T-Mobile Europe" Oct 08 22:10:24 :p Oct 08 22:11:03 m Oct 08 22:11:06 luke-jr_: heh :) Oct 08 22:13:32 I still remember the day they sent me some junk mail telling me to go visit their site to get "all new great free phones". After entering my phone number the list of avail phones emptied itself (via some quite slow javascript) in what I can only describe as the 21st century version of "you're an unworthy customer". Oct 08 22:15:10 .... so, if i had this bootmenu thing, AND only 1 filesystem, ... which ends up not-bootable... this thing would be completely dead, right? Oct 08 22:15:24 Monopolies are never a good thing. Oct 08 22:17:27 actually it's no longer a monopoly here, around three to four companies. but still. Oct 08 22:17:47 bah... anyway, bbl :/ thanks all for the info/help... Oct 08 22:18:33 javispedro, practical monopoly. Oct 08 22:19:07 indeed Oct 08 22:19:20 also, they offer dirt cheap voice rates as long as all your calls happen to be within the same carrier =) Oct 08 22:27:42 hmpf. if they removed the usb plugged in check from fmtx middleware in 1.2, why not remove the headphones plugged in check while they were at it? Oct 08 22:29:11 Because it actually matters? Oct 08 22:29:38 * javispedro ponders something Oct 08 22:29:44 Doesn't really make a difference, anyway, as they drop the power so much as to make it unusable when USB is plugged in. Oct 08 22:29:48 Connect a USB cable - dangling Oct 08 22:29:53 ah, it's just that they can't detect the usb cable when it's dangling Oct 08 22:29:59 not that they removed the check :P Oct 08 22:30:01 hmpf. Oct 08 22:30:03 Play FMTX, and take to extreme range. Oct 08 22:30:10 Now, unplug usb cable Oct 08 22:30:13 signal goes away Oct 08 22:30:40 The designed range is between 3 and 5m Oct 08 22:30:47 SpeedEvil: I personally use v4l to use the fmtx altogether because without a cable it's unusable Oct 08 22:31:04 but this is for a friend's device, and bash would scare him. Oct 08 22:31:10 *v4l-ctl Oct 08 22:31:44 I suggest queen-beecon Oct 08 22:32:20 * javispedro takes a look Oct 08 22:33:02 can anyone here help me against my bootloop and pastebin `dpkg -S /usr/lib/microb-engine` from their N900 ? :) Oct 08 22:33:36 microb-engine-common, microb-engine, libnspr4, microb-eal, libwidgetutils, libnss3, libnss3-certs, nokia-maps-core: /usr/lib/microb-engine Oct 08 22:33:41 jacktheripper: there is a package appropiately named "microb-engine" Oct 08 22:33:46 oops, late. Oct 08 22:33:50 thanks a bunch Oct 08 22:33:53 np Oct 08 22:34:00 I had that installed Oct 08 22:34:07 and as you see, tons of packages install into that Oct 08 22:34:14 * SpeedEvil notes firefox 4 is available. Oct 08 22:34:36 for maemo ?! Oct 08 22:34:44 yes Oct 08 22:34:53 gotta try that Oct 08 22:35:12 oh? Oct 08 22:35:17 http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/4.0b1/releasenotes/ Oct 08 22:37:39 thx :) Oct 08 23:12:02 SpeedEvil, did you mean fennec by firefox4 ? Oct 08 23:12:18 no Oct 08 23:12:33 http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/4.0b1/releasenotes/ Oct 08 23:12:53 firefox mobile = fennec Oct 08 23:12:57 http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/m/beta Oct 08 23:13:09 ummm http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/beta/ gives me "fennec is already installed" Oct 08 23:13:22 dunno Oct 08 23:13:34 It installed fine here - though I did not previously have fennec installed Oct 08 23:13:41 javispedro: Perhaps. Oct 08 23:13:53 javispedro: However, it was nowhere branded as fennec Oct 08 23:13:53 it is, they renamed long ago Oct 08 23:14:06 SpeedEvil, could you check if you have 'fennec' installed NOW ? Oct 08 23:14:33 lol, also android. I have to wonder if they shipped their own libc, or used bionic? Oct 08 23:16:29 Hi, i have a very strange problem with Madde , it seems the Emulation is working, but i don't get any image on the qemu window, in the shell I can do everything Oct 08 23:28:50 does anyone knwo where fmms saves its photos? Oct 08 23:32:25 bhi javispedro \o Oct 08 23:32:41 and nevermind, i just found it Oct 08 23:32:55 for the record, where does it save them Oct 08 23:33:47 SpeedEvil: do we know exactly how much battery current flashlight will cause? Oct 08 23:34:28 DocScrutinizer, I believe thats already documented somewhere based on the spec of the lights Oct 08 23:35:00 lcuk: yes, I think so. Just want to check back, to finally decide on RS once and for all Oct 08 23:35:13 * lcuk nods Oct 08 23:35:29 DocScrutinizer: it's on the order of 100mA Oct 08 23:35:35 I forgret exactly. Oct 08 23:35:56 7.2V*50mA*1.1/3.6 Oct 08 23:36:12 err yep, * efficiency Oct 08 23:36:23 aah, 1.1 Oct 08 23:36:33 correct? Oct 08 23:38:14 SpeedEvil: how do you know the LED Vfwd is 3.6, or 7.2 for 2 in series? Oct 08 23:39:22 7.2 Oct 08 23:39:28 2 in series Oct 08 23:39:36 It will be - all blue/white LEDs are. Oct 08 23:39:42 (plus or minus 15%) Oct 08 23:45:15 hmm, not good enough to test for RS Oct 08 23:46:08 I've changed the first 2 lines of the script like Oct 08 23:46:11 # Assuming 30 mOhm sense resistance Oct 08 23:46:13 RS=${RS:-30} Oct 08 23:46:54 but I finally want to know what to write there Oct 08 23:47:39 Sigh. Oct 08 23:47:43 I keep getting delayed. Oct 08 23:48:04 please, let's change topic before I blush Oct 08 23:48:05 But tomorrow with luck when I drag the PSU back in from the shed where ti is charging lead-acid batteries for winter. Oct 08 23:49:30 ~lart Nokia, for not even answering SUCH A SIMPLE question, like "what's exact value of RS?" Oct 08 23:49:31 * infobot whips out a hot clue gun and makes sure that Nokia, is stuck to the floor for not even answering SUCH A SIMPLE question, like "what's exact value of RS?" Oct 08 23:50:02 ~botsnak Oct 08 23:50:05 ~botsnack Oct 08 23:50:06 DocScrutinizer: :) Oct 08 23:50:13 ~good bot Oct 08 23:50:13 DocScrutinizer: :) Oct 08 23:52:40 ;_; Can't somebody help me please, I'm trying to get the mulator to work for 5 hours now, after the Nokia Bootsplash i just won't ouput any image , even in vnc mode.. on a similiar netbook it is working ... i can even ssh to it and mes with everyting... ( madde out of NokiaQtSDK AND Latest madde release) Oct 08 23:52:58 hi lcuk Oct 08 23:53:09 :p Oct 08 23:54:15 \o javispedro Oct 08 23:56:42 * wmarone boggles as mediabox lurches between songs randomly Oct 08 23:57:25 and it's keeping the CPU pegged... :/ Oct 09 00:44:26 hah, maybe I can power N900 from a GTA02 smartbat, and read out the bq27000 values :-P Oct 09 00:51:59 DocScrutinizer: you're drunk Oct 09 00:52:35 It's not in principle an insane idea. Oct 09 00:55:40 DocScrutinizer, SpeedEvil - completely offtopic. i charged up my battery for my helicopter Oct 09 00:56:07 ieatlint: I wish I were Oct 09 00:56:16 and when i plugged it in the power to the main rotors was good until I hit a level, then when it got fastest it crapped out seriously Oct 09 00:57:01 lcuk: did you get out OK? Oct 09 00:57:02 hmm Oct 09 00:57:09 SpeedEvil, yeah Oct 09 00:57:11 it was just odd Oct 09 00:57:17 lcuk: crashes can be bad, especially if not buckled in. Oct 09 00:57:19 the RC unit was responding fint Oct 09 00:57:22 fine Oct 09 00:57:54 li-ion cells are flaky used at high powers. Oct 09 00:58:00 i don't have a helicopter :( Oct 09 00:58:04 they can need fairly regular replacement. Oct 09 00:58:06 its been idle for 18months@ Oct 09 00:58:13 Prolly needs replacementr Oct 09 00:58:20 have one ordered Oct 09 00:58:22 ouch Oct 09 00:58:24 I have a hoverboard design. Oct 09 00:58:26 just thought I would fire up that one and see Oct 09 00:58:33 But no funding. :) Oct 09 00:58:38 heh Oct 09 00:58:49 lcuk: 18 months without maintenance? Oct 09 00:58:53 :) my dad bought me a helicopter a while ago Oct 09 00:59:01 I just thought I would try and fly it :) Oct 09 00:59:04 yeah DocScrutinizer Oct 09 00:59:17 get rid of that cell Oct 09 00:59:35 DocScrutinizer, have done, not even tried to tweak it Oct 09 00:59:41 the new one is on the way Oct 09 00:59:43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU Oct 09 00:59:45 is fun Oct 09 01:00:19 holy crap! Oct 09 01:00:29 Indeed. :) Oct 09 01:01:10 hoverboard? like back to the future style? Oct 09 01:01:23 SpeedEvil, actual mobile HB? Oct 09 01:01:29 or the fakey type Oct 09 01:01:46 lcuk: sort-of. Oct 09 01:02:07 lcuk: 60Kg or so weight, ~1m*1m, accellerates up at 2G Oct 09 01:02:19 lcuk: With a 100Kg passenger. Oct 09 01:02:21 bah, a decent H2 explosion in a room full of lead acid batteries. That's much better Oct 09 01:02:38 lcuk: tops out at maybe 4Km. Oct 09 01:02:50 lcuk: basically a closely packed array of ducted fans. Oct 09 01:03:05 And rather a lot of lithium-ion cells. Oct 09 01:04:44 3kF :-D Oct 09 01:04:57 err 1 Oct 09 01:06:56 Anyone tried the firefox beta? Oct 09 01:07:09 yes Oct 09 01:07:16 seems to work. Oct 09 01:07:17 Their repos are still broken (malformed Release file error here) Oct 09 01:07:21 Not tried it much Oct 09 01:07:27 SpeedEvil: Where'd you download it? Oct 09 01:08:37 http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/4.0b1/releasenotes/ Oct 09 01:08:42 then find the download link Oct 09 01:09:06 yeah i reported that in the mozilla irc and was even pointed to this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63508 Oct 09 01:09:58 * nox- had reported with with the 2.0 nightlies as well, guess fixing that is low priority... :) Oct 09 01:09:59 Thanks Oct 09 01:10:10 s/with with/that with/ Oct 09 01:10:13 It 'just worked' for me. Oct 09 01:11:14 the install via http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/m/beta ? Oct 09 01:11:24 yes Oct 09 01:11:30 hm weird Oct 09 01:11:56 maybe its a l10n issue? Oct 09 01:12:12 ok, so just disconnected my n810 from the charger... had a black screen that said "battery full, disconnect from charger to save power" Oct 09 01:12:27 so if the battery isnt as full as it can be, my name is patoffe and i can fly. Oct 09 01:14:36 battery may need replaced Oct 09 01:15:48 weird, a few days ago this worked constantly, with no hassle, on a battery 5-10% full Oct 09 01:16:21 dunno Oct 09 01:17:16 *sigh*... so any way to enable "rd mode" from the n810 itself? Oct 09 01:17:42 OR any proper DETAILED documentation on this "boot menu" thing??? Oct 09 01:18:41 just wondering how im supposed to RE-FLASH this device if i fucked it up (which is probably the case) Oct 09 01:20:39 so, DocScrutinizer: pressing the POWER button and selecting SWITCH OFF... SWITCHES OFF the device, yes or no? Oct 09 01:20:59 or do i still have to remove the battery, THEN hold down "home" THEN plug the usb etc etc....? Oct 09 01:21:14 delt: how the hell shall I know? Oct 09 01:21:47 you told me to do all that "remove battery, hold down HOME button" etc...right? Oct 09 01:22:23 then, didnt work after 10-15 tries you told me "go charge the battery" which i am just back from doing. Oct 09 01:22:40 21:12 < delt> ok, so just disconnected my n810 from the charger... had a black screen that said "battery full, disconnect from charger to save power" Oct 09 01:22:43 21:12 < delt> so if the battery isnt as full as it can be, my name is patoffe and i can fly. Oct 09 01:23:24 so if you're not sure about something, just say "i'm not sure" instead of wasting several hours of my time. Ok thanks a lot. Oct 09 01:23:37 delfsckoff Oct 09 01:24:00 IDIOT Oct 09 01:26:32 well nice to see you say idiot Oct 09 01:26:45 when it's not a response to something i said Oct 09 01:29:37 I'm only calling suckers names that actually waste my time and blame me for wasting theirs Oct 09 01:33:05 oh, and really SO SORRY my crystal ball fails to diagnose what's going on inside your device, over that distance. Of course a bit of thinking would have revealed I can tell for sure the device is off when battery is removed, but obviously I fail miserably to promise with absolute certainty that hitting "shut down" will actually do that Oct 09 01:33:10 once again Oct 09 01:33:12 IDIOT Oct 09 01:36:28 raster: hi, pal Oct 09 01:36:56 DocScrutinizer: grumpy doc? Oct 09 01:37:21 pissed by idiot user with vampire attitude Oct 09 01:37:33 heheheh Oct 09 01:37:43 enough of them out there :) Oct 09 01:37:47 yep Oct 09 02:07:12 maemo ftw \o/ Oct 09 02:26:25 Stskeeps: drop op? Oct 09 02:27:14 DocScrutinizer, /msg chanserv deop Stskeeps? Oct 09 02:29:07 Termana: faster this way, less typing :-P Oct 09 02:29:31 :p Oct 09 02:30:16 plan to fight the police once in your life Oct 09 02:30:54 plan to fight the police once in your life Oct 09 02:31:43 EUNIQ Oct 09 02:33:04 pupnik, any particular reason you found the phrase good enough to spam in 3 channels? (and probably more) Oct 09 02:34:12 pupnik, actually my plan is generally to *avoid* fighting the police Oct 09 02:34:55 too few channels Termana Oct 09 02:35:33 pupnik: create new ones! it's easy, and they are all just yours :-P Oct 09 02:35:50 we all grow old, and more responsible Oct 09 02:36:23 growing old: can't do much about that Oct 09 02:36:34 * DocScrutinizer smells pupnik's political hour approaching Oct 09 02:36:41 but I do tend to avoid having unnecessary responsibility dropped on me Oct 09 02:36:59 johnx: dropped = forced, no? Oct 09 02:37:27 interesting question. I'd have to say no Oct 09 02:37:48 if someone else drops the ball, I may feel compelled to pick it up but I'm not forced to Oct 09 02:37:53 what are we doing here, johnx Oct 09 02:37:57 why are you and i talking Oct 09 02:38:08 because I've been drinking Oct 09 02:38:08 why do we care Oct 09 02:38:12 and why in this channel :-D Oct 09 02:38:18 no Oct 09 02:38:22 this is very core Oct 09 02:38:28 to the soul of maemo and meego Oct 09 02:38:32 why do we care Oct 09 02:38:59 because it's about balls Oct 09 02:39:07 because the alternatives are worse Oct 09 02:39:08 hehe Oct 09 02:39:44 well, it's worth thinking about Oct 09 02:39:51 maybe it's hard to describe Oct 09 02:40:30 but... hear now Oct 09 02:40:42 * johnx hears now Oct 09 02:40:43 you don't want some untrusted jerk controlling your OS Oct 09 02:41:03 you don't want some untrusted jerk controlling your monetary supply --- end the FEDERAL RESERVE Oct 09 02:41:17 duyurrrrr Oct 09 02:41:18 damn, an untrusted jerk is controlling ALL my OS ;-P Oct 09 02:41:23 right Oct 09 02:41:27 shoot them Oct 09 02:41:30 with gun Oct 09 02:41:41 tok tok Oct 09 02:41:48 pupnik, you've been drinking too, haven't you? Oct 09 02:41:53 naw Oct 09 02:42:05 shoot the people who are printing money Oct 09 02:42:07 DocScrutinizer, all your OS are belong to jerks Oct 09 02:42:09 what a funny idea :) Oct 09 02:42:28 pupnik has a schedule in his PIM for those philosophical hours Oct 09 02:42:37 lol Oct 09 02:42:54 Termana: only one, and he's looking at me every morning in the bathroom Oct 09 02:43:18 heh :p Oct 09 02:43:22 tok tok.. .hey it works Oct 09 02:43:31 look the .. Oct 09 02:44:30 DocScrutinizer, Consider this a good thing, my first reaction wasn't "yourself", it was, "do you live with pupnik?" Oct 09 02:44:34 :P Oct 09 02:44:45 lol Oct 09 02:45:27 haha Oct 09 02:46:48 btw which FSCKNG monetary supply? Oct 09 02:47:30 hey Mister, spare a dime! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 09 02:59:57 2010