**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 27 02:59:57 2010 Oct 27 02:59:59 theres a name i havent seen in.. over 10 years now? Oct 27 03:01:29 raster: i remember when e17 or so was the most incredible desktop i'd seen on a PC heh Oct 27 03:02:21 boo Oct 27 03:02:57 raster: i remember when you were still down under heh Oct 27 03:03:07 coopers! Oct 27 03:03:57 or was that the other guy? Oct 27 03:07:06 1.3 installfest? Oct 27 03:07:08 or not Oct 27 03:08:47 well i have been in au Oct 27 03:08:49 on and off Oct 27 03:08:52 depends when :) Oct 27 03:09:37 good for you :P Oct 27 03:15:04 raster, you have an n900? Oct 27 03:15:35 fredrin: according to his website, yes Oct 27 03:15:50 thanks Oct 27 03:15:55 bot Oct 27 03:16:21 fr i do. Oct 27 03:16:36 fredrin: i do Oct 27 03:16:43 as your main phone? Oct 27 03:16:49 lol Oct 27 03:16:58 running shr :P Oct 27 03:17:49 * fredrin wants to run shr on his n900 Oct 27 03:18:41 fredrin: no. for many reasons. 1. n900 was unstable as anything. would barely last 5 mins without rebooting. it self-bricked itself 2 or 3 times. Oct 27 03:18:46 its stable now with latest firmware Oct 27 03:18:48 or mostly Oct 27 03:18:52 so what's stopping you? Oct 27 03:18:55 still gles driver bugs - several of them Oct 27 03:19:06 but i moved country Oct 27 03:19:10 and n900 is useless here Oct 27 03:19:21 korea network locks phones Oct 27 03:19:22 ie Oct 27 03:19:31 in the north? Oct 27 03:19:34 if phone ime is NOT ap approved imei that the telco sold u - sim card wont work. Oct 27 03:19:38 no Oct 27 03:19:39 south Oct 27 03:19:41 ok Oct 27 03:19:50 the reverse of simlocking Oct 27 03:20:02 so u cant buy a phone and just use a korean telco sim card Oct 27 03:20:07 so no skype then? Oct 27 03:20:21 or wifi Oct 27 03:20:24 :P Oct 27 03:20:26 there is wifi Oct 27 03:20:32 bluetooth? Oct 27 03:20:39 but why would i be that silly to make my phone only work where there is wifi Oct 27 03:20:41 ? Oct 27 03:20:56 my N900 seems to keep loosing its SIM connection Oct 27 03:20:57 as such most of my day - in the office, there is no wifi i can use for an n900 Oct 27 03:21:03 security reasons. Oct 27 03:21:18 network is locked down - wifi is for testing only. Oct 27 03:21:28 raster: lucky you, the bosses here complained until i was forced to install an AP Oct 27 03:21:29 sounds boring Oct 27 03:21:32 also firewalls will niceyl make things like skype impossible if not problematic :) Oct 27 03:21:51 so anyway Oct 27 03:21:58 raster: better than the insanity we had in TPE :-P Oct 27 03:22:36 point is - n900 is largely useless here - it just is a toy on my desk at home i use to see how much worse the sgx530 is and how many things are not implemented right in the n900 gles stack :) Oct 27 03:22:52 either way Oct 27 03:22:57 my regular phone is a glaaxys Oct 27 03:23:00 galaxy-s Oct 27 03:23:07 much much much much nicer hw than the n900 Oct 27 03:23:12 by a country mile Oct 27 03:23:14 raster> can't you use a SIM that will masq a given IMEI Oct 27 03:23:53 north korea is crazy Oct 27 03:24:06 :P Oct 27 03:24:16 raster: well yes, it's how many months newer? Oct 27 03:25:03 though it's using pentile, which kills any joy for SAMOLED I might have :( Oct 27 03:28:42 slingr: well other than the fact that you just dont have any such things here - you cant just buy a sim. in korea the networks are hevily locked down. much worse than the usa or even japan. masquing an imei would be illegal in korea. it'd be hacking a telco network - or classed as such. Oct 27 03:29:09 you do know that in jp and kr - reflashing a phone for example is illegal Oct 27 03:29:19 doesn't matter if it runs linux Oct 27 03:29:26 android Oct 27 03:29:30 or whatever gpl says Oct 27 03:29:43 when you buy a phone from a telco here or in jp Oct 27 03:29:56 u are only allowed to make telco approved modifications to the software on that phone Oct 27 03:30:00 anything else is illegal Oct 27 03:30:03 heheh Oct 27 03:30:09 same actually with any transmitting equipment Oct 27 03:30:11 raster: i will keep that in mind Oct 27 03:30:17 that includes firmward on wifi cards etc. Oct 27 03:30:21 firmware Oct 27 03:30:34 people have actually been put in jail for doing these things in japan i believe Oct 27 03:30:34 raster: in Japan, actually, the telcos bluster big but nothing comes of it Oct 27 03:30:36 raster: i work for a company that makes an ambedded device running linux that does data over GSM Oct 27 03:30:53 wmarone: the law agrees with them :) Oct 27 03:30:59 plenty of people use N900s and other android devices on Softbank / DoCoMo Oct 27 03:31:00 elsewhere in the world its different Oct 27 03:31:12 wmarone: japan doesnt network lock Oct 27 03:31:15 it simlocks Oct 27 03:31:17 no they don't Oct 27 03:31:21 I know Oct 27 03:31:22 it doesnt network lock Oct 27 03:31:26 korean netowkr locks Oct 27 03:31:28 network Oct 27 03:31:35 well aware of that Oct 27 03:31:44 I read what you said :) Oct 27 03:32:17 Japan's got a lot of strange controls on their networks, mostly all enforced by the carriers Oct 27 03:32:23 in jp if you go buy a phone that happens to work on their frequencies and the network of your telco - your sim card from the phoneu bought from them shoudl work Oct 27 03:32:29 you may have trouble getting keitai mail Oct 27 03:32:29 yup Oct 27 03:32:33 but it will work Oct 27 03:32:34 in korea Oct 27 03:32:44 u do that and u will end up with a device that has "no network" Oct 27 03:32:50 until you go to the telco Oct 27 03:32:54 find the right person to talk to Oct 27 03:33:06 pay them like a $500 fee to do "testing" of your phone Oct 27 03:33:09 I was over there back in august, used a data-only sim that cost me $30 for a month of unlimited 3.5G access Oct 27 03:33:21 anybody else have any problems with the N900 loosing connection to the sim? Oct 27 03:33:27 and then they will register your phones imei number as "allowed" Oct 27 03:33:29 or is that just my slightly bent microsim? Oct 27 03:33:47 orlok: microsim? Oct 27 03:34:00 orlok: lots of such devices around :) (linux, embedded, uses gsm for data) :) Oct 27 03:34:12 fredrin: south korea is also crazy :) Oct 27 03:34:13 wmarone: ipad style, so its a normal size sim with a chuink missing so you can p[op out the microsim Oct 27 03:34:14 raster: yeah, sucks that places actually screw people -harder- than they do in the US :/ Oct 27 03:35:36 orlok: yes, there are reports of such problems Oct 27 03:35:43 wmarone: well fyi galaxy-s is maybe about 7 months newer, but from a hw point of view - the cpu will come in at about 2-2.5x the performance of the n900, the gpu totally eclipses the n900. it's got quite a chunk more ram - admittedly less sotrage (16gb emmc vs 32gb emmc) and no physical kbd Oct 27 03:35:52 i'm using a bit of paper as a shim Oct 27 03:35:58 it didnt have the problem for weeks Oct 27 03:36:21 the screen - yes its pentile, but frankly.. its much nicer than the n900. the pentile is a downside, but black is pure black, colors are much more vibrant... and its bigger (4" vs 3.5") Oct 27 03:36:34 and frankly.. i know DocScrutinizer51 disagrees.. resistive ts... no thanks. Oct 27 03:36:35 :) Oct 27 03:36:51 orlok: paper is probably suboptimal solution Oct 27 03:36:58 wmarone: yeah. it really pissed me off... but whatever. i'll get around to rooting my galaxy-s some day Oct 27 03:37:01 regardless of the laws Oct 27 03:37:03 then fix the os Oct 27 03:37:07 DocScrutinizer51: some cellophane then? Oct 27 03:37:11 luckily for me.. thats the easiest bit Oct 27 03:37:23 orlok: the concept is odd Oct 27 03:37:26 as i already have proepr linux os images running on the same hw Oct 27 03:37:45 raster: proper? Oct 27 03:38:31 orlok: either try to straighten your SIM, or slightly + gently bend out the golden contact springs of holder Oct 27 03:39:09 jje, nait Oct 27 03:39:23 wmarone: not android :) Oct 27 03:39:31 paper wont bend the SIM into shape, but eventually will destruct the flimsy metal holder door Oct 27 03:39:37 (kernel, glibc, xorg, dbus, blah blah blah) Oct 27 03:39:52 ahh Oct 27 03:39:54 with 3D? Oct 27 03:39:58 DocScrutinizer51: unfortunatly the devices we make here use a slightly different style of holder Oct 27 03:39:58 yes Oct 27 03:40:01 o_O Oct 27 03:40:04 using what driver? Oct 27 03:40:10 a damn side better than the n900 gles drivers Oct 27 03:40:15 DocScrutinizer51: we have rolls of them! Oct 27 03:40:16 thats why i moan about them Oct 27 03:40:23 as my measuring stick is much better :) Oct 27 03:40:27 also sgx - sgx540 Oct 27 03:40:35 but in-house fixed up drivers Oct 27 03:40:43 oh Oct 27 03:40:43 so they actually do things right :) Oct 27 03:40:45 drivers you can't hsare Oct 27 03:40:47 share* Oct 27 03:40:49 yeah Oct 27 03:40:53 orlok: so? Oct 27 03:40:54 :( Oct 27 03:41:08 was gonna say, there are people working on MeeGo that would really like to talk to you Oct 27 03:41:46 orlok: couldn't crack the nut with this pound of butter, but you got another 5 metric tons of butter? Oct 27 03:41:56 wmarone: i am sure they would :) Oct 27 03:42:06 but... not going to happen :( Oct 27 03:42:07 you work for samsung? Oct 27 03:42:12 i do :) Oct 27 03:42:17 ahh Oct 27 03:42:25 ha you've probably met some people I work with Oct 27 03:42:34 possibly Oct 27 03:42:37 tho samsung is a big place Oct 27 03:42:37 are you in Gumi? Oct 27 03:42:40 no Oct 27 03:42:42 suwon Oct 27 03:42:43 hq Oct 27 03:42:46 ahh, probably not then Oct 27 03:42:56 DocScrutinizer51:DocScrutinizer51: the SIM is straight as far as i can tell Oct 27 03:43:05 i'll try bending up the fingers Oct 27 03:43:42 wmarone: i am in the mobile platform group in suwon. we work on samsungs actual linux platform Oct 27 03:43:54 ahh Oct 27 03:44:04 (as opposed to android, bada, wp7, random featurephones) Oct 27 03:44:12 we have a full working debian-based os Oct 27 03:44:18 well its not debian-based Oct 27 03:44:23 its a re-implementation of debian Oct 27 03:44:27 .deb based? Oct 27 03:44:33 we had-created the whole os just like debian Oct 27 03:44:36 yes Oct 27 03:44:44 its "pretty much debian" Oct 27 03:44:47 same pkg names for most things Oct 27 03:44:49 or similar Oct 27 03:44:50 yeah Oct 27 03:44:54 same here for our devices Oct 27 03:44:54 but not debian based itself Oct 27 03:45:01 this is something we need to fix tho Oct 27 03:45:05 it means we are almsot compatible Oct 27 03:45:07 but not quite Oct 27 03:45:09 a bit of a waste Oct 27 03:45:11 anyway Oct 27 03:45:30 whats moe fun is - we have a fully productionised os working Oct 27 03:45:37 where meego has placeholders Oct 27 03:45:42 we have full working complete apps Oct 27 03:45:47 yes, but no one can use your OS Oct 27 03:45:48 where meego seems to launch in 4 seconds Oct 27 03:45:53 we launch in 500ms Oct 27 03:45:58 bending the pins seems to have worked Oct 27 03:46:04 compositing and drivers all workign pretty solidly Oct 27 03:46:09 we are just cleaning up bugs really Oct 27 03:46:13 and beating at api's to suck less Oct 27 03:46:17 and what are you going to do with it? Oct 27 03:46:17 orlok: :-D Oct 27 03:46:31 well no one can useit mostly due to some politics of getting it out Oct 27 03:46:44 as such io'm allowed to talk about it - it's actually part ofmy job Oct 27 03:46:44 :) Oct 27 03:46:47 welcome to nokia's hole Oct 27 03:46:57 the question right now is only how we are going to get it out there Oct 27 03:47:06 Sell it on ebay. Oct 27 03:47:15 hahaha Oct 27 03:47:35 well with some ficups in the buildserver being done now we can be sure to be fulyl gpl compliant Oct 27 03:47:48 the goal is to totally play by oss rules and spirit Oct 27 03:47:55 we will open source everything we can Oct 27 03:48:04 (sgx drivers we can't and 3rd party stuff we can't) Oct 27 03:48:14 so basically, meego but not meego :) Oct 27 03:48:15 pretty much everything gpl/lgpl Oct 27 03:48:28 wmarone: yes. but we're already "done" :) Oct 27 03:48:51 what we are far behind in is any form of public knowledge that it exists :) Oct 27 03:48:56 sure Oct 27 03:49:08 well, meego is on 1.1 now Oct 27 03:49:11 I think that's the big thing though, is it's all been done internally instead of in the open like MeeGo is Oct 27 03:49:42 DocScrutinizer51: having looked @ meego - we are actually more like 2.0 or 3.0 if u want to use version # as a measuirng stick :) Oct 27 03:49:53 wmarone: yes. and thats bad Oct 27 03:50:03 one big problem is changing a whole company and culture Oct 27 03:50:05 and that takes time Oct 27 03:50:15 but.. the big wigs are on the bandwagon Oct 27 03:50:21 and nobody will love it Oct 27 03:50:36 ie extecutves heading this deivision explicitly yell at people to make it open source Oct 27 03:50:40 in community Oct 27 03:51:15 just wait a bit Oct 27 03:51:23 it will become public soon enough :) Oct 27 03:51:52 does it have a name? Oct 27 03:51:54 I'm confused though, what does Samsung see in it? Oct 27 03:51:58 luke-jr: SLP Oct 27 03:52:03 wmarone: what does Nokia see in it? Oct 27 03:52:07 raster: SLP? Oct 27 03:52:13 wmarone: its not android. Oct 27 03:52:19 well, there are other "public" foss distris that people love to hate as they are NIH Oct 27 03:52:32 DocScrutinizer51: actually meego is much more nih than SLP Oct 27 03:52:48 as such nokia decided to abandon maemo Oct 27 03:52:50 raster: Ah, higher ups don't like being under google's thumb? Oct 27 03:52:53 and jump onto the meego bandwagon Oct 27 03:53:01 i was actually pushing SLP to move to deb Oct 27 03:53:09 the reason SLP is deb based is because of my pushing Oct 27 03:53:19 wmarone: i can only talk about so much Oct 27 03:53:20 :) Oct 27 03:53:25 hehe Oct 27 03:53:33 but as such regardless of what i may have heard or know Oct 27 03:53:42 I don't care about deb Oct 27 03:53:42 there is desire AND room for an alternative to android Oct 27 03:53:53 raster: does it by any chance have real GPS integration? :P Oct 27 03:53:58 see the recent news about european telcos meeting to discuss it Oct 27 03:54:03 but seems a lot of people prefer it over RPM Oct 27 03:54:03 them not liking android either Oct 27 03:54:16 luke-jr: dunno.. it has gps support Oct 27 03:54:23 i dont pay attention to those bits Oct 27 03:54:39 DocScrutinizer51: my point is tnhat meego is much more NIH than SLP Oct 27 03:54:46 SLP is a nigh debian clone Oct 27 03:54:49 raster: Can you comment on the size of the orrganisation you're working in? Samsung, or Sparkfun? Oct 27 03:54:55 only that the way people do things ended up with it being not quite Oct 27 03:54:59 that will be fixed Oct 27 03:55:14 theres no real difference between .deb and .rpm really Oct 27 03:55:18 SpeedEvil: ??? Oct 27 03:55:19 all the same stuff, different extension Oct 27 03:55:31 raster: aiui it's a clone - yes. Oct 27 03:55:33 orlok: they are close. i'd say rpm is by far more packager friendly Oct 27 03:55:37 the real killer was the fact that apt would auto-resolve dependencies Oct 27 03:55:39 and it is technically superior imho Oct 27 03:55:44 but.. all in all they are close Oct 27 03:55:51 Yeah. If .01% of actual users care about the package manager, you've _utterly_ fucked up. Oct 27 03:55:52 raster: yeah, i'e built a few RPM's, havent built any /.deb's Oct 27 03:55:54 there is apt-rpm too Oct 27 03:55:57 so thats kind of moot Oct 27 03:56:04 probably with a licence that allows OEMs to close it down more than even Android Oct 27 03:56:12 raster: yeah, but there wasnt 10+ years ago :) Oct 27 03:56:13 orlok: i've doene a fair bit of both (worked at RH in my early years) Oct 27 03:56:16 that i remember, anyway Oct 27 03:56:24 raster: dude, i know :) Oct 27 03:56:34 raster: i was a linux sysadmin in australia in the 90's Oct 27 03:56:36 i prefer debian distros Oct 27 03:56:45 mostly due to the sheer breadth of stuff already packaged for them Oct 27 03:56:51 the apt repos are massive Oct 27 03:56:52 raster: i remember hacking together an old system to try and get E16 or whatever running on it Oct 27 03:57:03 rpm is technically nicer Oct 27 03:57:16 debian doesnt have rpm -ta. need i say more. Oct 27 03:57:20 * orlok remembers the dependancy nightmares Oct 27 03:57:40 but... be that as it may - SLP is on a debian path. not a meego path Oct 27 03:57:49 Gentoo ftw Oct 27 03:57:50 sounds cool overall Oct 27 03:57:59 nokia made a complete left turn and Albuquerque with meego (relative to maemo) Oct 27 03:58:02 who remembers Gentus? Oct 27 03:58:06 but we were already on the deb path Oct 27 03:58:12 and are not going to join the meego bandwagon Oct 27 03:58:14 but it all hinges on the hardware, and whether or not I can do what I want :) Oct 27 03:58:24 wmarone++ Oct 27 03:58:27 mostly because meego will proscribe that we must be qt based Oct 27 03:58:31 and that is not going to happen. Oct 27 03:59:06 i'm actually running into issues with openbsd's ports Oct 27 03:59:12 first time its happened :-\ Oct 27 03:59:25 i have no problem in shipping qt packages (unsupported from a 3rd party apt reop - ie just use deb/ubuntu arm repos) Oct 27 03:59:41 * luke-jr thumbs-down raster Oct 27 04:00:59 but having all apps, core ui, wm, desktop and all move to qt.. no. Oct 27 04:01:25 everything should have been Qt from the start Oct 27 04:01:30 hahahahahhaha Oct 27 04:01:31 so it's all just a bugfix Oct 27 04:01:32 ☺ Oct 27 04:02:28 I'm reminded of OM's perambulations around windowing systems. Oct 27 04:02:36 Which is not a good thing. Oct 27 04:02:38 there's a reason we have 500ms or even better app startup times... one of them is not having a gazillion symbols from c++ to worry about :) Oct 27 04:02:53 raster: pure GTK? Oct 27 04:03:00 wmarone: we do have gtk support Oct 27 04:03:04 o_O Oct 27 04:03:11 but all our apps are EFL based Oct 27 04:03:12 raster: never heard of prelinking Oct 27 04:03:13 ? Oct 27 04:03:39 ahh, enlightenment Oct 27 04:03:46 luke-jr: yes. i have. :) funny that. :) been there. done that. still higher cost than c without prelink :) Oct 27 04:04:04 wmarone: thats hwy i say "proper linux" :) Oct 27 04:04:16 close enough for me Oct 27 04:04:18 hehehe Oct 27 04:04:42 evas's gl engine has wonderful habits of finding bugs in gl drivers :) Oct 27 04:05:18 I would be MUCH MORE interested in a proper uniform orthogonal platform indepenent middleware framework - couldn't bother less about GUI details Oct 27 04:06:27 DocScrutinizer51: it'll al be gpl/lgpl... so you can happily put it onto your maemo ro meego or whatever device.. if u want Oct 27 04:06:35 dont expect us to do it for you :) Oct 27 04:06:47 meh Oct 27 04:07:04 missing the point Oct 27 04:08:15 I don't give a shit about GPL APIs defined in haskell or commented in kanjii Oct 27 04:08:41 raster: the 3D driver is GPL/LGPL? Oct 27 04:08:48 it's all dbus and/or c Oct 27 04:08:49 luke-jr: of course not :P Oct 27 04:08:58 wmarone: then MEH Oct 27 04:09:00 luke-jr: no. out of our hands. talk to imgtec :) Oct 27 04:09:12 luke-jr: you're gonna be SOL for a long time, seriously Oct 27 04:09:14 raster: no it isn't. revive Samsung's own 3D accel. Oct 27 04:09:26 wmarone: Samsung's prior generation had open 3D Oct 27 04:09:26 luke-jr: out of our hands. thats samsung LSI Oct 27 04:09:35 effectively a different company in practice Oct 27 04:09:42 they dumped their 3d unit long ago Oct 27 04:09:52 it basically is too slow to compete Oct 27 04:10:00 slow is better than nothing Oct 27 04:10:02 like literally 1/.4 the speed of the n900 Oct 27 04:10:05 err 1/2 Oct 27 04:10:05 closed is nothing Oct 27 04:10:27 and the n900 (sgx530) is like 1/4 the speed of current gpu's Oct 27 04:10:35 open crap is still crap Oct 27 04:10:38 luke-jr: all or nothing attitudes will get you nothing :P Oct 27 04:10:42 thats the reality of it Oct 27 04:10:48 if by 'current' you mean 'not really existing in the real world yet' :p Oct 27 04:10:58 that gpu is dead Oct 27 04:11:03 Hmm. Did anybody else get a preview clip for the movie "9" on their N900? Oct 27 04:11:05 its also controlled by another division entirely Oct 27 04:11:09 orlok: yes Oct 27 04:11:12 and they have many many many customers Oct 27 04:11:18 luke-jr: I'd never heard of it before! Oct 27 04:11:18 most of whom dont care about open or closed Oct 27 04:11:19 raster: do you have it running on OMAP4 ? Oct 27 04:11:25 orlok: me either Oct 27 04:11:27 orlok: s/any/every Oct 27 04:11:29 and they cant compete if their gpu isnt at least about as good as everyone else Oct 27 04:11:33 luke-jr: i torrented the full movie heh Oct 27 04:11:44 wmarone: no. Oct 27 04:11:44 orlok: not what they intended, I'm sure Oct 27 04:11:52 hmm Oct 27 04:12:04 luke-jr: my GF's a massive burton fan, odd that we'd never heard of it Oct 27 04:12:08 ... now that I think about I realize why not :) Oct 27 04:12:18 actually went to the last day of his exibition here in melbourne a few weeks ago Oct 27 04:12:34 wmarone: we focus on samsung SoC's right now. Oct 27 04:12:41 yeah, that's what occured to me Oct 27 04:12:47 as such our current SoC is the same as galaxy-s (hummingbird) Oct 27 04:13:00 thats nothing unusual or secret Oct 27 04:13:11 whyat an actuall product will ship with is another question entirely Oct 27 04:13:11 :) Oct 27 04:13:24 raster: samsung needs a hummingbirdboard or something :) Oct 27 04:13:34 (mayeb same, maybe just a clocked up version, maybe newer soc, maybe omap4.. maybe something else.. who knows) Oct 27 04:14:22 err huh? samsung SoC got zeroclock now? Oct 27 04:14:22 wmarone: http://www.boardcon.com/KIT%20S5PC110%20%28Android%202.1%29.html Oct 27 04:14:24 done Oct 27 04:14:28 and cheap too Oct 27 04:14:39 considering u get what is pretty much the same as a pandora Oct 27 04:14:45 just lower res lcd (hvga) Oct 27 04:16:59 but why make a board.. when someone did ti already Oct 27 04:17:02 over china-ways Oct 27 04:17:03 and cheaply Oct 27 04:17:09 raster: bad link Oct 27 04:17:09 raster: samsung make their own ARM based chips, correct? Oct 27 04:17:33 Pretty sure thats what our modems use Oct 27 04:17:43 and added a whole lcd, capactive touch panel, wifi, accelerometers, battery, and hdmi out to it already Oct 27 04:17:52 luke-jr: works for me Oct 27 04:18:29 orlok: yes. s3c* s5pc* good old 2440/2441/2442 Oct 27 04:18:30 etc. Oct 27 04:18:49 luke-jr: spaces and ()'s in the url Oct 27 04:18:54 http://www.boardcon.com/products.html Oct 27 04:18:57 liked from there Oct 27 04:19:34 o_O Oct 27 04:19:56 their order link... isn't. It's a blue-colored underline O_o Oct 27 04:19:58 anyway Oct 27 04:20:01 that link is also broken Oct 27 04:20:23 It's clearly been slashdotted by 800 peps Oct 27 04:20:23 yeah Oct 27 04:20:27 u actually have to email them Oct 27 04:20:32 400 peeps Oct 27 04:20:36 digikey will probably be shipping the pandaboard before long Oct 27 04:20:38 they dont actually seem to do credit card orders Oct 27 04:20:42 despite what the site says Oct 27 04:20:50 u ahve to do a proper order and they issue a proforma invoice Oct 27 04:20:54 and u wire xfer etc. Oct 27 04:21:01 but u can buy it Oct 27 04:21:07 i've asked them about units and pricing Oct 27 04:21:16 was looking into a way to make it more accessible to the world Oct 27 04:21:25 as people just dont like to do invocies and wire xfers to china Oct 27 04:21:34 raster: you are comparing it to pandora or panda? Oct 27 04:21:38 no, that would make me nervous :) Oct 27 04:21:43 he said pandora :P Oct 27 04:21:44 they want to just enter a cc number, an address and have it turn up at their door a week or 2 or whatever later Oct 27 04:21:50 luke-jr: pandora Oct 27 04:22:10 luke-jr: as such the s5pc110 is a massively better chip than the omap3x30 Oct 27 04:22:16 omap4 is netx gen Oct 27 04:22:18 next gen Oct 27 04:22:23 not out yet as such Oct 27 04:22:31 (in products) Oct 27 04:22:31 * SpeedEvil doesn't much care. Oct 27 04:22:38 In many ways. Oct 27 04:22:39 but then thats equivalent to the s5pc210 Oct 27 04:22:48 same gen Oct 27 04:22:56 both dual-core cortex-a9 Oct 27 04:22:58 The GPU is quite adequate in n900 for me. Oct 27 04:23:16 SpeedEvil: it all depends what u want to do with it Oct 27 04:23:21 Yes. Oct 27 04:23:25 Wesnoth is ok on the N900 Oct 27 04:23:29 screen a bit too small though Oct 27 04:24:44 i guess for example Oct 27 04:24:53 i can run q3 on the s5pc110 Oct 27 04:24:57 800x480 Oct 27 04:25:05 composited (not fullscreen direct to fb) Oct 27 04:25:08 all power to the 5GHz SoC phone Oct 27 04:25:11 and still get 40-50fps Oct 27 04:25:13 :-P Oct 27 04:25:18 vroom vroom Oct 27 04:25:42 Or one core can be dedicated solely to running tracker/thumbnailer! Oct 27 04:25:50 YESSSS Oct 27 04:26:33 or pulseaudio :-P Oct 27 04:27:08 just use the lower quality integer resampler Oct 27 04:27:28 u wont hear the difference between that an the highq fp one Oct 27 04:28:39 It's kinda depressing that a kid in HS implemented - albeit partially - the HW codec speaker protection fitler. Oct 27 04:30:33 yo Oct 27 04:31:04 all botches and bandaids, sold to us as hot stuff Oct 27 04:31:31 and when you ask for proper -> WONTFIX Oct 27 04:32:57 "No we don't open source this, we invented the FFT and the FIR filter, and we want to *differentiate*" :-/ Oct 27 04:37:13 Good morning Oct 27 04:54:10 are tehere any symbian emus? Oct 27 04:55:19 no, except the sdk one Oct 27 04:57:01 Idly wondering as I'd like to reverse engineer the API my grocery stores app uses Oct 27 04:57:16 as it might be easier than just raping their website lots. Oct 27 04:57:20 scraping Oct 27 04:59:52 wow. that's a freudian slip O_o; Oct 27 05:04:08 It's more a case of it's a keyboard under the covers and me not looking at the screen as I have my eyes closed slip. Oct 27 05:04:47 so you're in bed Oct 27 05:04:55 hands frantically working away under the covers Oct 27 05:05:02 and talking about raping. Oct 27 05:05:04 hmmm Oct 27 05:05:06 Yup. Oct 27 05:05:14 waaaaaaaay too much room for innuendo there Oct 27 05:05:56 I also have a touch sensitive stick that I play with to control things. Oct 27 05:06:26 interesting that that is your... control point Oct 27 05:15:15 hmm clear skies tonight Oct 27 05:15:41 * orlok is tempted to write an app for his phone to act as a telescope controller Oct 27 05:17:14 orlok: well - you could just install xephem Oct 27 05:17:44 I've used it on the n900 IIRC inside easy-debian Oct 27 05:18:33 SpeedEvil: cool i will check it out Oct 27 05:18:46 It is very touch-unoptimised Oct 27 05:18:50 SpeedEvil: i need to write the microcontroller - linux interface first though Oct 27 05:19:28 I need to retry on a clear night my n900 astrophotography eperiments with fcam Oct 27 05:19:36 SpeedEvil: i mean more just something to control positioning/turn tracking on/off Oct 27 05:19:58 SpeedEvil: i've been using a logitech C600 and an eee901 Oct 27 05:20:20 with a telescope, or an EOS40D on the telescope mount, no telescope used though Oct 27 05:20:36 xephem does 'goto' as I understand it Oct 27 05:20:41 SpeedEvil: i'm converting my mount so i can be completely remotely controlled Oct 27 05:20:47 Though I have never used it for that. Oct 27 05:21:11 just used it for locating comets and stuff Oct 27 05:21:22 ahh Oct 27 05:21:40 i use stellarium, but it doesnt know comets by default i think Oct 27 05:21:53 SpeedEvil: how are you doing astrophotography with it? Oct 27 05:21:59 long exposures? any sort of tracking? Oct 27 05:23:33 Stacking exposures. Oct 27 05:23:37 SpeedEvil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDoM5q1SWjg Oct 27 05:23:44 i trued it before, but fcam can do 1s exposures. Oct 27 05:23:44 registax? Oct 27 05:23:49 no Oct 27 05:23:56 gimp? Oct 27 05:24:05 netpbm Oct 27 05:24:12 for stacking? hmm, havent looked at that Oct 27 05:24:20 it's not sensible Oct 27 05:24:20 does it do alignment/registering? Oct 27 05:24:25 heh Oct 27 05:24:45 SpeedEvil: the C600 has a very nice set of controls for exposure, etc Oct 27 05:24:55 i managed to get jupiters red spot Oct 27 05:25:10 no - it is a simple set of image manipulation tools. Oct 27 05:25:14 i should try and mount the N900 to the scope eyepeice Oct 27 05:25:33 SpeedEvil: if you have a doze PC or wanna fiddle with wine, try registax, its free Oct 27 05:25:47 SpeedEvil: i use guvcview for imaging Oct 27 05:25:54 but probably not relevant to the N900 Oct 27 05:26:01 its not a UVC video device, is it? Oct 27 05:26:14 It's not in a serious attempt to get it working. Oct 27 05:26:25 And no, thoguh a UVC gadget driver would be lovely Oct 27 05:26:37 more an effort at getting pigs to fly. Oct 27 05:26:42 SpeedEvil: http://220.233.71.133/20101025/ Oct 27 05:26:45 i understand that :) Oct 27 05:27:38 I also need to get a tracking mount setup for a small green laser, to track ISS. Oct 27 05:27:53 SpeedEvil: will be hard, it moves fast Oct 27 05:27:56 To see it on nasa-TV as it passes overhead in the external camera shots Oct 27 05:28:01 :) Oct 27 05:28:06 and the green lasers will piss off any astrophotographers near you Oct 27 05:28:13 ahah :) Oct 27 05:28:27 ok, you probably want to have the laser fixed where the ISS will pass by heh Oct 27 05:28:46 That's another option, yes Oct 27 05:28:49 and easier Oct 27 05:29:06 SpeedEvil: it will be incredibly hard to make a tracking mount fast enough with the correct sort of resolution Oct 27 05:29:31 I know. Oct 27 05:29:45 one of the PHD's here made a sat. tracking system at a previous job Oct 27 05:29:57 i've been picking his brains while i modify my mount Oct 27 05:30:28 somebody said it could not have a second motor added, i've proved them wrong Oct 27 05:31:01 Is it a v12? Oct 27 05:32:47 Sounds like fun. Night. Oct 27 05:33:21 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/10/engadgetpspphone7-1288145212.jpg Oct 27 05:33:31 photoshop? Oct 27 05:35:05 RST38h, sorry. already read the article :) Oct 27 05:35:20 hehe Oct 27 05:36:32 that actually looks pretty hawt Oct 27 05:37:31 johnx: as long as you don't mind being arsenic raped by Sony Oct 27 05:37:37 SpeedEvil: v12? Oct 27 05:37:39 Arse * Oct 27 05:38:12 [naively] What is arsenic raped? Oct 27 05:38:22 ah Oct 27 05:38:46 Termana: don't think of it this way, think of it as your anal adventure (tm) Oct 27 05:40:18 some people are into that. Oct 27 05:41:38 TermanaDesire, there's about a mile of distance between something looking nice and me being willing to spend money on it Oct 27 05:41:39 But, seriously, Sony is long past the time when it could charge for the brand. Oct 27 05:42:45 but tis sony ericsson Oct 27 05:42:46 not sony Oct 27 05:43:29 even the playstation name has fallen from the prestige it had at one point Oct 27 05:43:59 so its a scandinavian + japanese frankenstein. :) Oct 27 05:44:20 jo i'd say it still has the prestige Oct 27 05:44:30 it just has cornered itself in a high end of the market Oct 27 05:44:40 where the market moved to be more "cheap mass market" Oct 27 05:45:07 * orlok hates sony laptops Oct 27 05:45:41 raster, playstation? I'd say it's been overtaken by 'xbox' for 'hardcore' gamers, and eaten by wii on the other end Oct 27 05:45:44 orlok: they are pretty much the only ones that dont look like arse other than app.e Oct 27 05:45:56 sony as a brand? apple killed that. Oct 27 05:46:15 (note: I'm talking about perception, not some kind of objective comparison) Oct 27 05:46:16 raster: yeah, but the people that insist on buying them for the "shiny" factor also seem to be the sorts to loose the install cd's Oct 27 05:46:21 speaking of playstation, I still have a pile of games to finish... Oct 27 05:46:32 johnx: dunno - i'd still say that sony is SEEN as the higher end of the market Oct 27 05:46:37 raster: and it makes re-installs a nightmare Oct 27 05:46:41 hardcore gamers arent there for higher end Oct 27 05:46:48 they are there for hard core games Oct 27 05:46:54 raster: seen as the higher end of the market by people who dont actually know :) Oct 27 05:46:58 psp3 pushes to the high end due to things like blueray Oct 27 05:47:10 and higher price for nicer design and the features Oct 27 05:47:20 * orlok thinks sony cases are generally crap compared to the others Oct 27 05:47:24 raster: Soneric makes a lot of cheap handsets Oct 27 05:47:29 but bluray players are like $60. it's not the 'value add' it used to be Oct 27 05:47:50 RST38h: soney ericsson != sony Oct 27 05:47:56 (as i said above) Oct 27 05:48:05 thgey blody well shouldnt have used that name Oct 27 05:48:09 it just confuses people Oct 27 05:49:02 i've been though many a laptop Oct 27 05:49:06 and the sony ones have been the best Oct 27 05:49:10 in design and quality Oct 27 05:49:15 raster: linux on them all though, right? Oct 27 05:49:50 raster: And Sony makes stuff like this: http://www.sony.co.uk/product/hfs-cd-music-system/cmt-eh15 Oct 27 05:49:51 * orlok lokes his eeepc Oct 27 05:50:02 raster: For something like $100 apiece Oct 27 05:50:05 i prefer a real computer for anything serious Oct 27 05:50:53 well, real keyboard, real screen, decent speed drive access... Oct 27 05:54:34 orlok: yup. actually i have Oct 27 05:55:23 and everything worked Oct 27 05:57:13 raster: my core issue with them is no free driver downloads for all the laptops Oct 27 05:57:28 raster: loose the cd and need to reinstall, theres a good chance half your hardware wont work Oct 27 05:57:42 the onyl drivers available from sony are updates Oct 27 05:57:56 and the model numbers, etc are insanely confusing Oct 27 05:58:50 never concerned me Oct 27 05:58:57 i didnt bother with windows Oct 27 05:58:57 :) Oct 27 05:59:04 linux went straight on Oct 27 05:59:09 but yes Oct 27 05:59:12 model numebrs are confusing Oct 27 05:59:24 bnut i have to say it took 10 years for my original sony vaio to die Oct 27 05:59:37 not including battery though Oct 27 05:59:47 most of my laptops the hinges go first Oct 27 05:59:50 battery still worked Oct 27 05:59:52 :) Oct 27 05:59:55 not brilliant Oct 27 06:00:04 but still got 30 mins out of it Oct 27 06:00:15 outs dont last 30 seconds, and they are only a few years old Oct 27 06:00:32 wardriving in a torana will completely stuff laptop hinges Oct 27 06:00:50 i ended up rebuilding a few laptops with gaffa tape and araldyte Oct 27 06:01:04 filled up the corners where the hinges mount with a solid lump of epoxy :) Oct 27 06:01:18 the good old pcg 505 Oct 27 06:01:21 * johnx actually uses linux on a powerbook g4 that someone was down with (hinges are going ...) Oct 27 06:01:25 the purple ones back from 1999 or so Oct 27 06:01:29 that baby was solid Oct 27 06:01:32 and worked well Oct 27 06:01:42 my sony x505 happily marches on Oct 27 06:02:23 it sits on my desk as an "embedded-like perfromance testbed" (peitum-m clocked down to 600mhz is pretty much on par to some last gen arms (cortexa8 at about 500-1000mhz) Oct 27 06:02:26 hmm, is anybody using the N900 as a usb host? Oct 27 06:02:55 i've had the x505 now for like.. 5 years or more Oct 27 06:03:10 the only laptops i have bought new are eeepc's Oct 27 06:03:15 i;ve got three heh Oct 27 06:03:18 and my current laptop os a 16" vaio fw46 Oct 27 06:03:21 it works well Oct 27 06:03:26 orlok: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host Oct 27 06:03:28 only thing i hate is the radeo gfx Oct 27 06:03:33 one was pretty much incapacitated after i violent incident Oct 27 06:03:54 an old eee701.. i use it in a robot now Oct 27 06:04:10 i've had an asus, clevo, dell, 2 thinkpads along the way Oct 27 06:04:16 and sony have been about the best Oct 27 06:04:43 Sony is a mess to change stuff in, I prefer my Thinkpad X200. Oct 27 06:05:36 i like thinkpads cos they all look the same Oct 27 06:05:46 SwedeMike, got linux on it? Oct 27 06:05:53 thinkpads are bicks Oct 27 06:05:55 but ugly Oct 27 06:05:57 is solid Oct 27 06:05:58 but ugly Oct 27 06:06:11 raster: yeah, i have issues with the suits demanding the latest shiny whatever Oct 27 06:06:21 i say give them a black brick and STFU Oct 27 06:06:29 thats why i liked sony Oct 27 06:06:32 kind of got both Oct 27 06:06:42 i will admit apples stuff is these days better than sony Oct 27 06:06:45 orlok, that was my reason too. :D I love the mid-90's look actually. When I get one I think I actually might just go all the way and put bumper stickers all over it Oct 27 06:06:48 its about as slick as it gets Oct 27 06:07:00 raster: yeah, the machining on them is incredible Oct 27 06:07:13 sony is - in general, next down on the list of slick Oct 27 06:07:19 tho asus is trying hard Oct 27 06:07:19 :) Oct 27 06:07:34 the sony laptops i've spend any amount of time with, the cases just looked like cheap badly bent alloy plate Oct 27 06:07:36 hp kind of picked up their game in one of their series Oct 27 06:07:46 orlok: may have been the cheap vaios Oct 27 06:07:53 the cheapones are actually just oemed off to asus Oct 27 06:07:54 :) Oct 27 06:07:59 ahah Oct 27 06:08:04 that may explain it Oct 27 06:08:12 so if u are getting a cheap viao - just get an asus Oct 27 06:08:17 saves u a few $ Oct 27 06:08:19 though i actually like the eee901, plain gloss black finish Oct 27 06:08:30 last of the pure-linux and SSD eee's Oct 27 06:08:44 the eee's are ok Oct 27 06:08:50 but frankly- netbooks just dont do it for me Oct 27 06:08:54 johnx: yes, ubuntu. Oct 27 06:09:05 SwedeMike, works well? even suspend? Oct 27 06:09:10 either give me a real big soldi kbd and real screen (15" or better - 17" preferably) Oct 27 06:09:19 or screw it.. i'll just want a smartphone Oct 27 06:09:25 then it lives in my pocket nicely Oct 27 06:09:40 yeah, now that i have an N900, i'm thinking the same Oct 27 06:09:57 johnx: yes, I had to do a workaround in 9.04 or 9.10, but after that it works. Don't know if 10.04 and 10.10 works well without it. It's documented in launchpad, but it's been working 100% since then. Oct 27 06:10:14 orlok: its a bit crampd .. but the fact that it requrioes no bag/carrier Oct 27 06:10:20 and just can lurk in a pocket.. is worth it all Oct 27 06:11:14 i suspect the sweetspot for smartphoners is about the 4" screen mark Oct 27 06:11:23 5" is probably just over Oct 27 06:11:28 3.5" is on he small side Oct 27 06:11:42 so maybe 4l3" is possibly the best middleground Oct 27 06:11:44 yeah, if it's bigger than iphone4, htc desire etc, then it's going to be too big for neatly fitting in the pocket. Oct 27 06:11:48 big enough to visibly fit a lot of content Oct 27 06:11:54 small enough to still fit in MOSt pockets Oct 27 06:12:34 (unless you are a girl with an awesome behind wearing those skintight jeans.. but then u likely cant fit anything in your pockets.. so why bother having any?) Oct 27 06:12:37 though I can still see an additional use for a 7-10" pad for doing some couch/bed surfing on. Oct 27 06:12:50 sure Oct 27 06:13:12 7-12" or so is "let it sit next to the couch/bed/coffee table for a bit of bigger screen surfing" Oct 27 06:13:18 but not portable Oct 27 06:13:31 not portable in the smartphone sense Oct 27 06:13:49 exactly. Oct 27 06:13:53 portable in the NMT450 sense Oct 27 06:14:02 ericsson hotline. Oct 27 06:19:46 tmo is having a rough night Oct 27 06:24:07 from which release does the qtcore module part of the Maemo architecture ? It was shipped already on fremantle if I remember well, I am not sure about Diablo or previous releases. Oct 27 06:40:59 raster: I disagree about 4 inch. I personally like 3.5 - it gives me full control of the screen without stretching too much and my n810 was 4.3 and I that was uncomfortable IMO. OTOH I think 3.5 seems to look a little awkward in portrait and 3.7 looks awkward in landscape Oct 27 06:43:00 TermanaDesire: thge n800/810 had a LOT of junk surrounding the screen Oct 27 06:43:04 wasted space Oct 27 06:43:17 my galaxy-s is 4" Oct 27 06:43:22 and i have to say its about right Oct 27 06:44:24 it's not the size of the screen, it's how you utilize it Oct 27 06:45:20 visz: I see what you did there ;p Oct 27 06:45:31 sorry, i had to =) Oct 27 06:55:58 hi Oct 27 06:56:20 hi Oct 27 06:56:36 would it be safe to optify /usr/lib/locales ? Oct 27 06:57:32 locale* Oct 27 06:57:37 i'd just bindmount / to /home/root/ Oct 27 06:57:40 :3 Oct 27 06:57:45 or, rather, the opposite Oct 27 06:58:33 i've once again reached zero bytes free on rootfs :( Oct 27 06:59:13 i've got like 60mb Oct 27 06:59:19 i bet that's why it doesn't let me upgrade to pr1.3 Oct 27 06:59:34 :( Oct 27 06:59:39 :( Oct 27 07:00:02 but is it saafe to optify /usr/lib/locale? Oct 27 07:00:16 I have 75 after upgrade and it went fine. Oct 27 07:00:21 and what about /usr/share/locale ? Oct 27 07:02:49 anyone? Oct 27 07:05:13 ~pr1.3 Oct 27 07:05:14 hmm... pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 Oct 27 07:13:54 ~pr1.4 Oct 27 07:13:54 PR1.4 has always been a ban'able subject Oct 27 07:14:14 ;-P Oct 27 07:15:07 ~pr1.5 Oct 27 07:15:08 * infobot beats robbiethe1st with a Nostradamus papercopy 43.8 times. "That's your PR1.5!" Oct 27 07:25:45 morning Oct 27 07:26:20 morning Oct 27 07:33:35 X-Fade, how are the servers holding up to the "OFMG PR1.3"-botnet? Oct 27 07:34:28 Everything in .fi is fine, Reggie's server is quite overloaded. Oct 27 07:34:45 seems to respond well now Oct 27 07:34:55 it took quite a beating as I understand it? Oct 27 07:35:37 we didn't even break the usercount record. Oct 27 07:36:33 Yeah, probably because of the engadget article. Driving anonymous users to the site? Oct 27 07:37:59 X-Fade, they still count as "users online" as I understand it Oct 27 07:38:02 "Paul, the oracle octopus who shot to fame in the World Cup this summer for his uncanny ability to predict the results of Germany's soccer matches, has died at his home in Oberhausen at the age of two." Oct 27 07:38:31 Hmm, I wonder if I can get cruft for N900... Oct 27 07:39:18 Seems like just the thing to have, on a device where root partition space is at a premium. Oct 27 07:39:30 crashanddie: old news Oct 27 07:44:36 well some things you can always depend on Oct 27 07:45:14 nokia qt sdk updater on windows corrupted the installation again when upgrading to pr1.3 components Oct 27 08:00:54 is it safe to optify /usr/lib/locale ? Oct 27 08:01:59 anyone? Oct 27 08:03:44 what the hell is wrong with my n900 :D Oct 27 08:03:45 > 1008 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded. Oct 27 08:03:45 > Need to get 84,1MB of archives. Oct 27 08:03:45 this can't be true :D Oct 27 08:09:37 SchorschlV6: that would be pr1.3 update Oct 27 08:11:52 ieatlint: how long is pr1.3 released? Oct 27 08:12:32 ~pr1.3 Oct 27 08:12:33 well, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 Oct 27 08:12:51 SchorschlV6 ... hey, the infobot still works :-) Oct 27 08:13:37 uh nice, didn't notice that Oct 27 08:14:03 hope the mediaplayer bt stream bug is fixed^^ Oct 27 08:14:35 SchorschlV6 ... don't know, AFAIK there are no (zero) releasenotes Oct 27 08:14:46 there are release notes Oct 27 08:15:01 they're in infobot's message that you just requested (see the url with "releae notes" in it) Oct 27 08:15:17 ieatlint --> ok, so i'm proven wrong on my knowledge. sorry 4 that, but good to know Oct 27 08:15:37 and it fixes a bluetooth bug where it continued to play dead audio to bt devices after audio playback had actually stopped Oct 27 08:15:37 jep, i have the notes here... this was just a hope before reading :D Oct 27 08:15:37 is it safe to optify /usr/lib/locale and /usr/lib/locale? Oct 27 08:22:09 SchorschlV6: if the bluetooth bug you mean is bug #9640 .. it's fixed Oct 27 08:22:11 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9640 Huge battery drain because BT-headset sound is not stopped Oct 27 08:22:25 ooh Oct 27 08:22:30 that preenv stuff looks nice Oct 27 08:24:16 i haven't managed to try it yet, ran out of space on rootfs while installing one of those libgles that a game would need and have been trying to free up space ever since (been at it for at least a few hours already :( Oct 27 08:25:27 one of those libgles things* Oct 27 08:26:19 very stupid question: where would i get pre games? is there any way to buy & download them without actually owning a pre? Oct 27 08:26:54 when updating package "maemo" , i have no enough space (87 MB) in rootfs (the is 85 MB available), i think that needing space is temporary! is it ok if I map /tmp to another storage and update? Oct 27 08:27:36 i'm not even close to having so much space avaiable :( Oct 27 08:28:27 which brings me back to my question: is it safe to optify /usr/lib/locale and /usr/lib/locale? Oct 27 08:29:36 ?: what terminal are you using when on the N900 (for doing stuff on maemo on the cli?) Oct 27 08:29:52 me? Oct 27 08:30:15 yes ... I'm in xterm and missing a couple of files / the SD card .. Oct 27 08:31:01 i use the one that comes with the N900 Oct 27 08:31:24 i don't have a SD card Oct 27 08:31:44 but i can do cd / just fine Oct 27 08:32:07 google latitude on the n900, I don't want to use the browser based version to update my location (uses too much cpu/battery), what are my other options? I'd prefer not to enable devel Oct 27 08:32:08 TiagoTiag, ok, then I have a understanding problem, perhaps you can help. what are the device names for the N900 and the SD? /dev/mmc1 (should be N900) /dev/mmc2 should be the SD, right? Oct 27 08:33:00 i dunno, lemme check what is present on mine Oct 27 08:34:13 SD card is /dev/mmcblk1p1 mounted at /media/mmc1 Oct 27 08:34:14 hmh i shouldn't upgrade... 3 month uptime :D Oct 27 08:34:41 mmcblk0 mmcblk0p1 mmcblk0p2 mmcblk0p3 Oct 27 08:34:42 /dev/mmcblk0p2 is /home Oct 27 08:34:52 /dev $ ls mm* Oct 27 08:35:19 /dev/mmcblk0p1 is ~/MyDocs Oct 27 08:35:27 is it safe to optify /usr/lib/locale and /usr/lib/locale? Oct 27 08:37:41 i'm starting to worry i might need to reflash again if i can't figure out how to get the free space in rootfs back to more manageable levels soon :( Oct 27 08:39:13 ~flashing Oct 27 08:39:13 hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 27 08:39:29 my n900 is back from repairs \o/ Oct 27 08:39:41 <|187|> 3 months SchorschlV6 ? never ran out of bat? :O Oct 27 08:39:43 woo! :D Oct 27 08:39:50 <|187|> thats like impossible for me Oct 27 08:40:15 I really am not in the mood to reinstall so many programs all over again (last few times i tried batch installing a bunch of programs at once things went bad easilly, i have to install oat most only a few at time, then manujally optify some stuff etc and then repeat) Oct 27 08:40:22 they slapped a crummy screen protector ontop of the old one, and the battery is stone dead so i cant even boot to see if it's repaired Oct 27 08:40:43 Urgh Oct 27 08:40:52 :( Oct 27 08:41:11 <|187|> ShadowJK: no replacement bat ? Oct 27 08:41:14 |187| : i have a charger at home, in my office, in my car, and a mobile battery charger :D Oct 27 08:41:33 <|187|> ordered a cheap one for that purpose for about 5pounds or so Oct 27 08:41:33 ah, a few minutes of dc-10 car charger and it booted Oct 27 08:42:53 at least there is a good thing waiting me next time i do a total reflash, i'll keep the original rootfs untouched and will use a copy of it in the internal big memory so i'll never run out of space so easilly Oct 27 08:43:25 hope the update over air works this time Oct 27 08:43:31 heh Oct 27 08:43:42 good luck Oct 27 08:44:40 moaning Oct 27 08:44:47 got 1101 packages^^ lets see what happen now Oct 27 08:44:57 * TiagoTiago starts to wonder how safe it would be to stick the stylus up his nostril all the way in...... Oct 27 08:45:35 SchorschlV6: dont apt-get distupgrade Oct 27 08:46:28 why i shouldn't do that? Oct 27 08:46:54 might hurt your smelling cells? Oct 27 08:48:29 mm, freshly flashed n900, 101.5M free on / Oct 27 08:48:45 yummy Oct 27 08:50:28 that beats my 60mb Oct 27 08:50:41 altho i havent flashed since i got it... Oct 27 08:52:16 auenf: you use pr1.1 ? Oct 27 08:52:24 1.2 Oct 27 08:52:47 will throw 1.3 on after this weekend sometime Oct 27 08:54:34 is it safe to optify /usr/lib/locale and /usr/lib/locale? Oct 27 08:55:16 ShadowJK: What do you do to keep it that clean? Oct 27 08:55:23 Never had more than 70MB free Oct 27 08:56:23 RST38h: you can link /var/cache/apt to the second partition Oct 27 09:04:38 upgrade done^^ letz reboot Oct 27 09:05:26 how can i find out myself whether it is safe to optify /usr/lib/locale and /usr/share/locale, other than trying it and seeing if it fucks up the device? Oct 27 09:06:02 ~pr1.3 Oct 27 09:06:02 i guess pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 Oct 27 09:10:25 Could somebody tell me what their repository settings are for the default catalogues (Nokia Applications and Nokia System Software Updates) please? Oct 27 09:14:12 upgrade over air seems to be done successfully Oct 27 09:16:00 <_trine> whats the difference between the USA PR 1.3 and any UK one that might be released Oct 27 09:19:00 _trine go with global Oct 27 09:19:43 <_trine> is there any difference you know of between the different firmwares Oct 27 09:20:14 I did apt-get install libgles-sgx-img cause it said it ould be needed to play Pre's Need for Speed Undercover, but there wasm't enough space left on rootfs and it didn't got all they way thru, i tried clearing up some space and trying tol install again, bad idea, now i can't find what else to optfify and dthere is no space for dpkg to run and its all messy :( Oct 27 09:21:08 :( Oct 27 09:22:22 TiagoTiago: link /var/cache/apt to /home/user/MyDocs/apt Oct 27 09:22:36 <_trine> is there a link to do the upgrade OTA Oct 27 09:22:50 ~pr1.3 Oct 27 09:22:50 i guess pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 Oct 27 09:23:17 it would be better if this automated reply was sent privatly... Oct 27 09:23:49 true Oct 27 09:25:25 that folder is already optified Oct 27 09:25:54 with the new kernel it's pretty fast now Oct 27 09:26:27 dpkg: unable to open/create status database lockfile: No space left on device Oct 27 09:26:50 you can try apt-get clean Oct 27 09:27:31 still not enough free space Oct 27 09:27:41 outsch Oct 27 09:30:05 ~pr1.3 Oct 27 09:30:05 pr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 Oct 27 09:30:07 ~pr1.3 Oct 27 09:30:11 oh Oct 27 09:30:20 lol Oct 27 09:30:44 mh Oct 27 09:30:50 nothing i need in that text… Oct 27 09:31:36 I still don't know how to get root on 1.3… have rootsh installed but sudo gainroot asks me for a pass, and I can't find it. also can't change the user-pw with passwd :/ Oct 27 09:34:35 phryk just type root Oct 27 09:35:03 is it safe to optify /usr/lib/locale and /usr/lib/locale? Oct 27 09:35:10 phryk : have you ssh-server installed? Oct 27 09:35:21 what is the difference between nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0 and nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/203 ? Oct 27 09:35:40 i have 203, and a friend mr0 Oct 27 09:36:03 or how can i find the answer other than by trying and risking messing things even more? Oct 27 09:36:07 the version i think Oct 27 09:36:14 i mean global uk us and so on Oct 27 09:36:32 TiagoTiago wait for someone who did it to ask Oct 27 09:36:39 :( Oct 27 09:36:52 SchorschlV6: yes Oct 27 09:37:01 oh mom Oct 27 09:37:08 just assumed it didn't get started Oct 27 09:37:35 nice it's running Oct 27 09:38:12 ~flashing Oct 27 09:38:12 flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 27 09:38:14 TiagoTiago, backup and find out. how were you planning on optifying it? Oct 27 09:39:01 phryk: you can chmod 4555 /bin/su then you can easy use su to become root Oct 27 09:39:13 copy to /opt, delete the original, then symlinl the copy back to the original location (would do oit with Midinight Commander) Oct 27 09:39:22 symlink* Oct 27 09:39:47 wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space#Move_apt_cache_outside_of_rootfs Oct 27 09:40:08 SchorschlV6: i know Oct 27 09:40:10 i think that one is already optified here Oct 27 09:40:12 SchorschlV6: you did mean +s right?^^ Oct 27 09:40:21 at least i did that, just like the last time :] Oct 27 09:40:49 now i can get rid of rootsh :) Oct 27 09:40:58 SchorschlV6: thanks a bunch for pointing out the obvious ^^; Oct 27 09:41:16 why you want to get rid of rootsh? Oct 27 09:41:33 less risk Oct 27 09:41:45 heh Oct 27 09:41:54 i can't change the darn pw for user, it is very possibly some weak standard pw documented somewhere Oct 27 09:42:10 phryk risk of dinosaurs take your phone and use root? Oct 27 09:42:12 usually it helps me fix things when they get broken by other means Oct 27 09:42:27 I also am searching for a way to force a pw-prompt before installing packages, haven't found anything yet :/ Oct 27 09:42:38 ZogG: something like that Oct 27 09:43:05 rootsh makes you own the dedvicde... without it the device will own you ;) Oct 27 09:43:14 phryk oh, i would give my n900 to see alive dinosaur Oct 27 09:43:17 Almehdi: You know that there is still su? Oct 27 09:43:27 sure Oct 27 09:43:40 Almehdi: so why keep rootsh? Oct 27 09:43:47 Hi Oct 27 09:43:55 easier Oct 27 09:44:00 than su? Oct 27 09:44:06 o_O Oct 27 09:44:21 it doesn't get much easier than 2 letters and a password-prompt… Oct 27 09:44:23 I'm testing out some sample code in some of the tutorials & developer guides Oct 27 09:44:25 su is not working i thin Oct 27 09:44:34 hmm.. havent really thought about it Oct 27 09:44:35 oh it is Oct 27 09:44:39 trust me, i just used it Oct 27 09:44:43 i thought there wasn't su and sudo on the N900 without it..... Oct 27 09:44:56 Specifically, I am up to this: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Using_Address_Book_API#OssoABookContactView Oct 27 09:45:09 The code compiles just fine, but fails in SB Oct 27 09:45:14 Core dump. Oct 27 09:45:19 With errors in gtkrc Oct 27 09:45:33 [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~/src/maemoexamples/maemo-examples] > ./example_abook2 Oct 27 09:45:33 /usr/share/libosso-abook/gtkrc.libosso-abook:33: Invalid symbolic color 'SecondaryTextColor' Oct 27 09:45:33 /usr/share/libosso-abook/gtkrc.libosso-abook:33: error: invalid identifier `SecondaryTextColor', expected valid identifier Oct 27 09:45:33 Segmentation fault (core dumped) Oct 27 09:45:36 dneary your lost Oct 27 09:45:56 ZogG, I'm afraid I don't understand Oct 27 09:46:14 dneary: there is a devel channel for that Oct 27 09:46:19 HAM crashes when i open it :/ Oct 27 09:46:19 gdb also dumps core when loading the core file Oct 27 09:46:21 TiagoTiago, well, its not the same as full confirmation, but I have /usr/lib/locale optified now Oct 27 09:46:22 i think #maemo-devel (would make sense) Oct 27 09:46:26 10mb saved Oct 27 09:46:40 phryk i think he knows better =) Oct 27 09:46:43 phryk, Really? I have always believed this was the dev channel Oct 27 09:47:41 dneary: https://wiki.maemo.org/IRC <-- #maemo-devel seems abour right^^ Oct 27 09:47:53 would you mind also trying on /usr/share/locale, and then rebooting to see if it won't mess things up? Oct 27 09:48:03 dneary have you read of my proposal in community Oct 27 09:48:50 ZogG, Jog my memory, please? Your proposal about what, and what's your real name? Oct 27 09:49:40 Anyone who knows where haze stores the buddy icons? Oct 27 09:49:41 lcuk, would you mind also trying on /usr/share/locale, and then rebooting to see if it won't mess things up? Oct 27 09:49:43 ZogG, I don't commit IRC nicks to memory much :) Oct 27 09:49:45 dneary, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63158 Oct 27 09:50:03 ZogG, Ah - I assumed you meant maemo-community@maemo.org Oct 27 09:50:36 dneary i meant proposal for community Oct 27 09:51:01 ZogG, Nice idea Oct 27 09:51:25 I would favour sending everyone to one place - preferably transifex - and have translators collaborate Oct 27 09:51:48 Rather than try to adapt Garage, which wasn't really built for the use-case you propose Oct 27 09:52:09 dneary it's a mess their as one person in charge for teams and not always grant request Oct 27 09:52:10 But the idea of having users guided to l10ns of apps is a good one Oct 27 09:53:44 dneary i'm using english on device but i know russian and little bit hebrew Oct 27 09:53:54 so i would like to contribute at least translations Oct 27 09:54:59 maemo made me rediscover bassdrive Oct 27 09:55:35 just plain awesome to sit in the bus/train and listen to one of the best dnb streams available :) Oct 27 10:00:25 * ZogG xmms2> Speech Debelle - Daddy's Little Girl ["Speech Therapy" 2009] Oct 27 10:00:30 phryk, ^ Oct 27 10:01:00 that dnb? don't know that artist… Oct 27 10:01:05 Always open for recommendations :) Oct 27 10:02:22 @ ZogG Oct 27 10:04:01 well, gonna try rebooting with locale optified Oct 27 10:04:09 cya (i hope) Oct 27 10:06:14 timeless*: Allo allo? Oct 27 10:06:21 hi Oct 27 10:06:25 what can i do for you? Oct 27 10:06:52 timeless_mbp, I hear you know the l10n set-up pretty well Oct 27 10:06:59 btw: is there a generic tabulator keycombo? Oct 27 10:07:09 for which project? Oct 27 10:07:12 i only found one for the osso-xterm… need it in xchat as well Oct 27 10:07:15 but yeah, in general i can probably help Oct 27 10:07:26 hey anyone else has the weird bug with the initial browser page (bookmarklist) that it snaps back to the first item if you scroll further than the last item? Oct 27 10:07:38 I would like to know how to go from a string like addr_ap_address_book in a desktop file to a plain string like "Contacts" Oct 27 10:07:51 I have not found any good docs on it Oct 27 10:08:19 I understand that X-Text-Domain=osso-addressbook is used to refer to where the translations are kept Oct 27 10:08:25 yep Oct 27 10:08:40 So I did a "locate osso-addressbook" in sb, but it didn't show anything Oct 27 10:09:09 um Oct 27 10:09:13 that's unlikely to do the right thing Oct 27 10:09:17 (because locate doesn't work in sb for me) Oct 27 10:09:24 try installing my pr1.2 package Oct 27 10:09:47 which one? Oct 27 10:09:55 morning Oct 27 10:10:02 well, you have a choice of en-US or en-GB Oct 27 10:10:18 as long as you install the one your scratchbox is using you should be happy Oct 27 10:10:21 timeless_mbp, I'm going to need a URL or something Oct 27 10:10:33 I don't know what "my pr1.2 package" might be Oct 27 10:10:48 i think it's in /query Oct 27 10:11:08 Are you talking about a package that replaces locate? Oct 27 10:11:21 Not anything to do with translations, right? Oct 27 10:12:18 I'm a little lost Oct 27 10:13:36 dneary: timeless talks about timeless' private (better) translations Oct 27 10:14:08 well, they aren't updated for 1.3, i should try to do that today Oct 27 10:15:39 andre_41, Ah Oct 27 10:15:51 Where I was looking for information about how translations work Oct 27 10:16:07 andre_41, Thanks for the illumination Oct 27 10:16:21 lunch... Oct 27 10:17:01 No PR 1.3 update in SB SDK yet... is that right? Or do I have to update repos? Oct 27 10:20:08 dneary: anyway, for testing purposes you want a decent (i.e. nearly complete) set of strings Oct 27 10:20:13 the sdk generally doesn't help there Oct 27 10:20:29 as long as you don't need pr1.3 strings, using mine should be "good enough" for testing Oct 27 10:20:46 * timeless_mbp is trying to avoid opening XTerminal to check a .desktop file Oct 27 10:20:51 * timeless_mbp is also trying to poke mercurial Oct 27 10:21:17 timeless_mbp, Does Maemo use gettext? Oct 27 10:21:33 yes Oct 27 10:21:44 timeless_mbp, I've never seen a "text domain" before in gettext Oct 27 10:22:21 man 3 dgettext Oct 27 10:23:54 timeless_mbp, So where are the .po files for official apps? Oct 27 10:24:13 install my package ;-) Oct 27 10:24:17 Or are only the .mo files shipped? Oct 27 10:24:27 only mo's are shipped Oct 27 10:24:33 Bummer Oct 27 10:24:37 but my package lets you deal w/ that Oct 27 10:24:44 it gives you a ui to review .mo files Oct 27 10:24:59 So there's no way to find out, as a user, which .desktop file corresponds to the "Contacts" application? Oct 27 10:25:22 install my package Oct 27 10:25:23 (noting that in osso-addressbook, there is no occurrence of the "Contacts" string Oct 27 10:25:38 i'll give you steps :) Oct 27 10:25:39 contacts is osso-addressbook iirc Oct 27 10:25:41 1. install my package Oct 27 10:25:44 2. open settings Oct 27 10:25:48 3. open american english Oct 27 10:25:53 4. select advanced options Oct 27 10:26:01 ruskie, Yes, I did notice that :) Oct 27 10:26:03 5. select the locale you're using and one tiny locale Oct 27 10:26:13 Should the web browser work inside Scratchbox? Oct 27 10:26:24 I'm starting to think that I missed a step to getting a usable SDK Oct 27 10:26:29 e.g. en_US.2 and eo Oct 27 10:26:31 Browser doesn't launch Oct 27 10:26:43 6. select "Lookup identifier" Oct 27 10:26:55 (so I'm stuck at step 1) Oct 27 10:27:00 * ruskie tries to see if he can survive an upgrade without needing to reflash... Oct 27 10:27:15 Is there a way to manually, locally install from a .install file? Oct 27 10:27:18 dneary: yeah Oct 27 10:27:24 you can just read the .install file Oct 27 10:27:27 it's a human readable format Oct 27 10:27:47 in theory you can probably try launching the .install file w/ ham, that should work Oct 27 10:28:47 anyway, in theory that should work, for some reason lookup identifier seems to be fighting me Oct 27 10:28:56 but Search within translations works Oct 27 10:29:29 hmm how soon does apt usually report a dependency conflict? Oct 27 10:30:29 "can't install" Oct 27 10:30:33 see log :) Oct 27 10:30:42 fun Oct 27 10:30:58 nah, it probably says something, i'm too lazy to check Oct 27 10:31:42 I'm checking through ham right now... supposed to list stuff under problems for the update Oct 27 10:38:25 am I the only person that when you work an hour on a wiki entry and then someone comes back and changes the format or look for it, you get pissed off Oct 27 10:38:44 I've never been able to community enough to like wikis Oct 27 10:39:17 huh? why? Oct 27 10:39:29 I know I shouldn't in fact sometimes it looks better just drives me crasy still lol Oct 27 10:39:39 you're weird Oct 27 10:39:39 The correct action in that case is always the same. Oct 27 10:39:42 yes, wikis fail at merging. Oct 27 10:39:43 that's the point of wikis Oct 27 10:39:49 Drive to their house, and bury them under a patio. Oct 27 10:39:56 Chani: no, he's pissed that other people change what he wrote Oct 27 10:40:05 andrewfblack: it would help if you didn't spend an hour working on it without committing :) Oct 27 10:40:10 oh Oct 27 10:40:13 n/m then Oct 27 10:40:21 my usual issue is edit conflicts Oct 27 10:40:56 Chani: especially in wikis, commit early, commit often Oct 27 10:41:30 or use something like ikiwiki Oct 27 10:41:32 sometimes it reminds me of being in school and your english teacher says you need a . here and a space here. Then again I'm working night shift and get someone pissy for no reason Oct 27 10:41:48 andrewfblack: please get out of the internet then Oct 27 10:41:55 it's for the best of both Oct 27 10:42:00 kerio: lol but its my internet Oct 27 10:42:11 it's not your internet Oct 27 10:42:15 unless it's a wiki on your lan Oct 27 10:42:34 Fork the wiki. :) Oct 27 10:43:09 ooh, idea for mediawiki Oct 27 10:43:11 branches for each edit Oct 27 10:43:48 yay... I can haz all the music I want from ovi music store with pr1.3... to bad it's still not available in my country... Oct 27 10:44:14 I'll stick to buying the few CDs that really interest me and skipping all the other junk Oct 27 10:45:46 * SpeedEvil wonders how close you have to zoom in with the camera to pick up the grooves on a CD. Oct 27 10:46:03 More than most camera's can handle? Oct 27 10:46:30 Indeed. Oct 27 10:47:10 I think ~.5mm square image would comfortably reveal the grooves Oct 27 10:47:12 SpeedEvil, the laser tracking for a cd - i recall an analogy of flying a supersonic jet over the central reservation of a motorway and tracking position within 1inch of the barrier Oct 27 10:47:29 I know. Oct 27 10:47:37 isn't technology awesome Oct 27 10:47:38 I know way too much about the encoding of CDs. Oct 27 10:48:15 SpeedEvil, easier method for picking up the contents of a cd Oct 27 10:48:36 take a photo of the label, ocr it then buy it and download contents from digital media store :P Oct 27 10:48:54 i'd love a program like that for the n900 Oct 27 10:49:09 lcuk: You're missing the point! Oct 27 10:49:14 :) Oct 27 10:49:15 photograph the cd label, it finds the album name and starts downloading it from what.cd Oct 27 10:49:17 :D Oct 27 10:49:35 I want a barcode reader -> product ID map Oct 27 10:49:44 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/26/tesco_iphone/ Oct 27 10:49:49 Like that - sort-of Oct 27 10:50:08 you take pics of the barcode, and it adds it to your list. Oct 27 10:50:52 yeah, i want an application that takes a pic of the barcode and adds it to my transmission-daemon Oct 27 10:51:09 Can transmission handle cans of beans? Oct 27 10:51:45 if it could, it would be *awesome* Oct 27 10:51:52 if it can, im looking forward to downloading a new car Oct 27 10:51:55 "What are you doing?" "I'm downloading some bacon" Oct 27 10:52:50 nid0: YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR Oct 27 10:52:57 kerio, I already have bacon supplies on my 900 Oct 27 10:52:59 too goddamn right i would :( Oct 27 10:53:18 open keyboard, add rasher, slide keyboard back in and run some intensive grilling process Oct 27 10:53:23 lcuk: never enuff bacon Oct 27 10:53:47 nid0: http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-03-16/1237240452958.jpg Oct 27 10:54:02 nid0: also http://turbo.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2010/07/download-a-bear.png Oct 27 10:54:50 maybe ill just go back to shooting policemen to steal their helmets Oct 27 11:08:36 hello Oct 27 11:09:27 I'm having trouble upgrading to the latest pushed maemo release on my n900, I'm just wondering if its a) worth the trouble and b) how to do it if my pc uite doesnt work? Oct 27 11:09:52 is there a changelog somewhere? Oct 27 11:11:09 jave: hi Oct 27 11:11:18 jave: no changelog Oct 27 11:11:42 ~pr.13 Oct 27 11:11:44 ~pr1.3 Oct 27 11:11:45 methinks pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 Oct 27 11:12:05 Thanks Oct 27 11:12:16 jave: the appmanager should tell you on the details page of the package which package has conflicts with the upgrade Oct 27 11:13:02 well, I followed the on-screen instructions, but failed thoroughly Oct 27 11:13:26 jave: you mean pc-suite? Oct 27 11:13:29 yes Oct 27 11:13:34 jave: just dont Oct 27 11:13:43 jave, there is a link to fixed public bugs at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 Oct 27 11:14:04 jave: grab your phone and open the application manager pls Oct 27 11:14:13 ok Oct 27 11:14:24 jave: go to updates and tap the maemo5 one Oct 27 11:15:29 there you should find details and at the install tab you should see either libqt4-test or libgles1-sgx-img is conflicting Oct 27 11:15:32 its very slow, but I'm doing it Oct 27 11:15:40 jave: np Oct 27 11:16:31 ive done this previously but never got to a conflict screen Oct 27 11:16:38 jave: it is one of your installed packages using one or both of these libraries Oct 27 11:16:54 it should be the "installs" screen Oct 27 11:16:54 now it says "please connect pc suite" (but in swedish) Oct 27 11:17:11 any buttons or tabs? Oct 27 11:17:30 it wants to make a backup copy it seems Oct 27 11:18:02 and ive already made one previously Oct 27 11:18:07 jave: do you have any 3D games installed? Oct 27 11:18:10 no Oct 27 11:18:21 healtcheck? Oct 27 11:18:29 hmm what is that? Oct 27 11:18:55 * alterego thinks mad-developer should add /opt/usr/lib to /etc/ld.so.conf Oct 27 11:19:16 ok, so now I make a new backup anyway Oct 27 11:19:29 why? Oct 27 11:19:37 well it asked me to Oct 27 11:20:01 I cant seem to get by the "make backup copy" stage of the upgrade Oct 27 11:20:02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGLj8_S2WgA Oct 27 11:20:40 argh Oct 27 11:22:12 ah! now I find an info screen which says conflict with libgles1 Oct 27 11:22:26 so I should remove that pkg? Oct 27 11:25:44 youll also need to remove whatever requires it, itll be a game almost certainly Oct 27 11:26:05 if you apt-get remove libgles1* itll tell you what packages depend on it Oct 27 11:26:38 you can simply reinstall it after upgrading though Oct 27 11:27:53 yes I'm doing that now. seems there was a 3d game after all. Oct 27 11:29:08 my fault for just asuming the "info" screens containd nothing... Oct 27 11:29:24 jave: hehe Oct 27 11:30:40 Hi, Anyone else noticed that Pr1.3 changed the way swap works? I noticed a lot of "zero pages" with rzscontrol from compcache. But I have no idea, what this actually does: http://pastebin.com/iJYM4sR5 Oct 27 11:31:42 chem|st: so this is the last update to freemantle= Oct 27 11:31:43 ? Oct 27 11:31:53 the game, everyone Oct 27 11:31:57 :D Oct 27 11:32:06 ...i lost Oct 27 11:32:57 jave: it is probably but I wont bet on it as there are still bugfixes on its way Oct 27 11:34:21 I'm kind of out of the loop. will there be a meego release for n900 or do I need to get a new device? Oct 27 11:34:46 there is already a release for meego on n900 Oct 27 11:35:01 there is and will be a mostly working-as-well-as-possible unofficial release Oct 27 11:35:03 coolness Oct 27 11:35:03 its not stable release the last I heard but its still getting worked on Oct 27 11:35:14 there wont be a nokia supported or branded official one with any nokia software on it Oct 27 11:35:20 what about Harmattan, is that going to exist for N900? Oct 27 11:36:17 the chance of the n900 having a nokia supported and supplied new os is probably around 0 Oct 27 11:36:34 well I can get a new device np Oct 27 11:36:42 don't know and don't think that harmattan is being worked on officially, it maybe is just another stillborn project Oct 27 11:37:12 there's no harmattan anymore Oct 27 11:37:21 Words to note there ^^ "don't think" ;) Oct 27 11:37:40 much like mer I suppose, partial release and it became quiet I suppose Oct 27 11:37:53 not really Oct 27 11:37:58 no harmattan anymore? but i think just a few days ago here people were discussing whether Harmattan would be officially called MeeGo or Maemo Oct 27 11:38:14 X-Fade, words of doubt to mark in case there's objections :) Oct 27 11:38:23 the supposed plan has always been that harmattan is what will be on nokia's next tablet device, and it will just be branded as "an instance of meego" Oct 27 11:38:42 i've heard the opposite all the time when meego went official Oct 27 11:38:44 with qt support but the debian base still intact Oct 27 11:38:59 hm, k Oct 27 11:39:40 I've pretty much more or less the same when meego was announced, it just seems like nokia has pretty much lost interest peddling their own maemo series Oct 27 11:44:31 Mece: Do you have libhildonfm compiled with your patch, http://pastebin.com/R77d7yJQ against Pr1.3? Oct 27 11:45:30 Ok, why is the update taking ages? Oct 27 11:45:46 I started it for 1h and 20 mins ago with full battery Oct 27 11:45:58 And now i've 20% Oct 27 11:46:01 because theres like 1,000 packages to update and its a tiny weeny little slow processor Oct 27 11:46:18 It took faster last time Oct 27 11:46:23 but fine then Oct 27 11:46:45 you could always get the image and flash it lol Oct 27 11:47:12 the progress atm is osso-backup lol Oct 27 11:47:17 slow :< Oct 27 11:47:18 whatever Oct 27 11:47:33 Yeah, i know Oct 27 11:47:39 but i'm lazy Oct 27 11:48:07 LjL, since no one answered your question directly, there is a possibility that Harmattan will be available for the N900, just not from Nokia themselves (Harmattan Hacker's Edition). The other thing is that the hardfp version of 1.2 MeeGo for the N900 should have binary compatibility with Harmattan as well Oct 27 12:00:21 now, tha update is at osso-dsm. :P Oct 27 12:00:29 could be 'liiiiittle' faster Oct 27 12:03:36 I've just started upgrading to pr1.3 via Synaptic.....how bad of a mistake was that? Oct 27 12:05:11 TiagoTiago, first let me ask you something Oct 27 12:05:17 How silly do you THINK it was? Oct 27 12:06:15 wait, what Oct 27 12:06:21 Considering i stayed up all night instead of sleeping, i'm guessing it wasn't just a little Oct 27 12:06:26 does synaptic even exist for maemo? Oct 27 12:06:55 Yep, i can even see the OVI store free repo in there :P Oct 27 12:07:13 I think it became avaiable after i installed EasyDebian Oct 27 12:07:39 TiagoTiago, ok, so at least we agree - it was silly. Oct 27 12:08:25 TiagoTiago, I think it's a bad thing to do, and apparently the topic thinks so too. But I think you just need to resolve upgrade conflicts, if you know how to do that you should be fine Oct 27 12:08:29 I guess lack of sleep shook the balance of chemicals in my brain to make me be a bit more reckless than usual Oct 27 12:09:44 alteregoooo :D Oct 27 12:10:16 Somtimes it feels like i get high on lack of sleep....(it probably kills a similar amount of neurons as many other ways to get high) Oct 27 12:12:27 (also probably does some damage on the immune systems) Oct 27 12:14:57 and it also damages our "we don't give a fuck" Oct 27 12:15:47 :p Oct 27 12:22:55 Yay! https://bugs.maemo.org/7107 Oct 27 12:26:07 i'm starting to wonder if i might've updated to pr1.3 without noticing at some point; how can i check my version? Oct 27 12:26:31 Settings, about the product Oct 27 12:26:34 probably under about device in settings Oct 27 12:26:36 bleh Oct 27 12:27:20 firmware revision is supposed to be 20.2010.36.1 (maybe i failed at some point, but it should be something like that) Oct 27 12:27:43 mine is 10.2010 something, so that's 1.2 i guess Oct 27 12:28:37 so am i doing something wrong? i still don't have an update to install Oct 27 12:28:55 yeah, 10.2010 is the old one Oct 27 12:29:05 (or well, 10.2010.(...)) Oct 27 12:29:54 10.2010.19-1 Oct 27 12:29:59 i've even got an update for "tweak flash plugin version" waiting that won't install because i don't have 1.3 Oct 27 12:30:18 is it normal to not be seeing the update at this point? (i'm in the UK) Oct 27 12:30:43 yes, you're in the UK :P Oct 27 12:30:58 I believe the package is named as maemo5 or something like that.. or you can issue apt-get dist-upgrade from the console Oct 27 12:31:35 psycho_oreos: the /topic says not to do that Oct 27 12:31:45 with an all-caps "DO NOT" and all Oct 27 12:32:14 is it possible that something is blocking it? would HAM say something if that was the case? Oct 27 12:32:20 Maemo 5 Oct 27 12:32:28 ~pr1.3 Oct 27 12:32:29 pr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 Oct 27 12:32:29 is the name of FW updates in package manager Oct 27 12:32:32 BCMM, bah my bad, though the package should be visible normally afaik Oct 27 12:32:34 DO.. NOT.. INSTALL.. Oct 27 12:32:49 achipa: do not install what? Oct 27 12:32:54 By the way... you're not the only one that don't see it in the package manager Oct 27 12:32:55 BCMM: there is nothing new in that version there for PR1.2 users Oct 27 12:33:15 Some guy at planet maemo, and myself, didn't do eihter (but i just did it with the terminal) Oct 27 12:33:25 BCMM: FOR THWEAKFLASHVER Oct 27 12:33:33 damn caps... Oct 27 12:33:41 achipa: it's OK, i can't install it Oct 27 12:33:46 So, try wait if you want, or use USB Oct 27 12:33:48 flashing Oct 27 12:33:48 it's always safe to do apt-get update/apt-get upgrade on maemo, right? Oct 27 12:34:10 update is np, i dunno about upgrade or dist-upgrade Oct 27 12:34:20 I run it, but I usually do things you shouldn't do. :P Oct 27 12:34:21 doesn't seem like it is now. I personally do a backup and flash it myself Oct 27 12:34:25 assuming you meant ~flashing, i know how to flash; i had to do 1.2 with a PC, and i've broken my kernel once Oct 27 12:34:30 i'd just rather to OTA Oct 27 12:35:01 i was wondering whether not having the OTA update available yet means that it will never be available Oct 27 12:35:02 Running dist-upgrade now actually, but it will not check for enough space in rootfs Oct 27 12:35:13 (I experienced that yesterday) Oct 27 12:35:16 FIQ: is that the only problem with -dist-upgrade? Oct 27 12:35:24 As said, i dunno Oct 27 12:35:44 I do it, but the most safe would be doing it with usb flashing Oct 27 12:35:53 yeah I meant ~flashing and I believe it is alot cleaner than doing upgrades OTA (I don't put much faith over OTA but not because its maemo and maemo only) Oct 27 12:36:28 FIQ: well, surely the worse than can happen is that one has to flash from PC and lose a bunch of stuff, right? Oct 27 12:36:39 Yeah, i guess so Oct 27 12:36:53 It's not like the device will explode, or do a permabrick. :P Oct 27 12:37:16 someone suggested to me to use dar and to keep a nice backup, which is what I'm doing right now Oct 27 12:37:33 FIQ: it's pretty hard to permabrick an n900 from software without OCing isn't it? Oct 27 12:37:53 is it normal to see updates when you do apt-get upgrade, but not when you use HAM? Oct 27 12:37:54 It's _possible_, but very hard indeed Oct 27 12:38:10 Never happened me before the missing PR1.3 in HAM Oct 27 12:38:36 Well you could accidently dd over the bootloader partition Oct 27 12:38:40 what about minor versions of "boring" packages? Oct 27 12:38:40 Then your up the creek Oct 27 12:38:59 FIQ: with a bit of luck you get a semi-permabrick Oct 27 12:39:06 the sort you can't install from the GUI Oct 27 12:39:10 "a bit of luck" Oct 27 12:39:14 lol :p Oct 27 12:39:20 anyway, well, how? Oct 27 12:39:28 FIQ: he means BAD luck Oct 27 12:39:39 Yeah, i know what he meant Oct 27 12:39:40 yank the cable when its flashing? heh Oct 27 12:39:43 low battery Oct 27 12:39:43 but still, how? Oct 27 12:39:51 Oh Oct 27 12:39:51 plus bootloop Oct 27 12:40:02 Am I on ignore or something? Oct 27 12:40:07 DD over your bootloader Oct 27 12:40:10 Meh, wouldn't just a reflash help that? Oct 27 12:40:28 :P Oct 27 12:40:35 Do eeet Oct 27 12:40:39 Termana: but a dist-upgrade wouldn't do it. :) Oct 27 12:40:42 FIQ: low battery blocks flashing Oct 27 12:40:53 bootloop blocks loading Oct 27 12:41:05 Oh Oct 27 12:41:12 FIQ: you didn't ask weather a dist-upgrade would do it. You asked how could it be done Oct 27 12:41:13 Lucky me, i've an extra battery :D Oct 27 12:41:14 suppose you had a really old battery that goes flat faster than they expect? Oct 27 12:41:17 whether* Oct 27 12:41:22 Yeah, i know Oct 27 12:41:47 My battery is charging atm, as this upgrade seems to take a lot of time Oct 27 12:41:53 reflash may but I'd hate to be in a semi-permabrick phase.. in theory one isn't able to brick their devices however the case with a truly bricked device and a semi-permabricked device are signs of potential danger Oct 27 12:42:07 it's on osso-system packages now, and i started the upgrade 2h ago Oct 27 12:43:03 lol osso-tutorial Oct 27 12:43:21 * FIQ will uninstall that pretty instantly after done installing Oct 27 12:43:27 what does "semi-permabrick" mean, anyway? Oct 27 12:43:43 as DocScrutinizer boot loops.. I agree Oct 27 12:43:57 Well, if you haven't enough battery to do a proper flash, I guess Oct 27 12:43:58 you see nokia logo/screen appearing and reappearing and reappearing Oct 27 12:44:14 (as, you can be saved without services if you change battery) Oct 27 12:44:16 Hello people Oct 27 12:44:32 Well, rebootloop with full battery would still let you reflash, wouldn't it? Oct 27 12:44:32 I'm a graduate physics student, and got a N900 quite ago Oct 27 12:44:41 is there any fortran compiler for maemo Oct 27 12:44:53 or is it possible to install gfortran in xterminal? Oct 27 12:45:04 so does pr1.3 work like a normal debianish system, or is there something unique about how it's implemented Oct 27 12:45:21 eduardowoj: i'd like a fortran compiler too Oct 27 12:45:34 eduardowoj: unfortunately, there isn't really supposed to be even a C compiler Oct 27 12:45:36 FIQ: yes Oct 27 12:45:39 FIQ, yes, I can't recall who said what was the minimum amount of battery power for reflashing.. I think its no less than 20% Oct 27 12:45:52 * FIQ checks his batery Oct 27 12:46:02 eduardowoj: it probably wouldn't be that hard to build fortran stuff to run on the n900 in scratchbox Oct 27 12:46:04 yay, 50% Oct 27 12:46:16 * MohammadAG51 reflashed on 2% once Oct 27 12:46:24 not less than what makes NOLO react properly to holding 'u' Oct 27 12:46:25 it shut down after i saved settings Oct 27 12:46:28 eduardowoj, BCMM, or you could just install a fortran compiler in a debian chroot Oct 27 12:46:33 I charge mine up in either case, better to be safe than sorry :) Oct 27 12:46:36 eduardowoj: good point Oct 27 12:46:39 Termana: ^ Oct 27 12:46:49 MohammadAG51, lol you're suicidal ;) Oct 27 12:46:58 is the upgrade for UK version out yet? Oct 27 12:47:04 psycho_oreos, if it dies it'll probably be during rootfs reflash, you can reflash it again Oct 27 12:47:16 psycho_oreos, and I have 3 batteries and 3 external chargers Oct 27 12:47:16 eduardowoj: you'll find it a bit slow though Oct 27 12:47:28 so i haz backup Oct 27 12:47:30 if you failed at 2% and the device won't charge you're pretty much more or less forced to either whip out spare battery or to take it to nokia care I bet Oct 27 12:47:37 eduardowoj: the n900 feels pretty speedy because a bunch of stuff you do from day-to-day isn't really CPU-bound Oct 27 12:47:42 compiling, approximately, is Oct 27 12:47:43 psycho_oreos, see above :P Oct 27 12:47:51 MohammadAG51, lol lucky, I don't have any spare batteries Oct 27 12:48:13 I got one by mistake by nokia when my device borked. :P Oct 27 12:48:29 ok, how is it possible for pr1.3 not to show up for me? if i can't see it yet, should i assume i never will and flash it? Oct 27 12:48:30 (taked out everything in it and sent it in, i got a new fresh N900, with everything in it Oct 27 12:48:33 result: 2 batteries Oct 27 12:48:33 you got a replacement and didn't send the battery? Oct 27 12:48:37 ha Oct 27 12:48:44 lol Oct 27 12:48:59 don't they ask you for that? Oct 27 12:49:15 * MohammadAG51 wants a twitter client Oct 27 12:49:17 dunno about nokia, but some laptop manufacturers have you remove the battery to save weight Oct 27 12:49:26 MohammadAG51: you normaly send nothing but the bare device, so neither backcover nor battery Oct 27 12:49:34 or stylus Oct 27 12:49:43 might start on one and dump the QtBrowser code on git Oct 27 12:49:46 I forgot to put out my stylus :< Oct 27 12:49:48 BCMM, afaik the OTA upgrade should be available globally, I can't verify that because I'm doing a mass backup and the flasher images are already available Oct 27 12:49:57 need to read how APIs work :/ Oct 27 12:50:06 I've 2 chargers, 2 batteries, 2 usb cables, 2 (...) but just 1 pen Oct 27 12:50:15 But i don't use it, so i /care. :P Oct 27 12:50:23 external chargers ftw Oct 27 12:50:24 BCMM: why should they, they'l usually shredder the returned stuff anyway Oct 27 12:50:28 psycho_oreos: does it work through the regular debian-based packaging system? Oct 27 12:50:40 FIQ: I would too I guess as I bought a Lamy Laptop pen with pencil and ballroller Oct 27 12:50:52 charge both, use one, empty it, swap batteries, charge empty one, cycle Oct 27 12:51:03 BCMM, it should.. like I said I've seen it before that it appeared in HAM but I don't normally take OTA routes regardless if its maemo or not. Oct 27 12:51:12 FIQ: heh, I got my device back from repair with 2 stylii Oct 27 12:51:18 Heh Oct 27 12:51:20 UK updates are always delayed Oct 27 12:51:31 Wasn't UK first at PR1.2? Oct 27 12:51:39 N97 users used to get updates 2 months late Oct 27 12:51:40 MohammadAG51: i've already seen a UK phone on 1.3, two days ago Oct 27 12:51:41 in other words its still not available? o.O Oct 27 12:51:43 UK users that is Oct 27 12:51:53 BCMM, maybe he reflashed it? Oct 27 12:51:55 yeah I recall UK was Oct 27 12:52:03 MohammadAG51: nah, she got it OTA Oct 27 12:52:08 PR1.1.1, remember that? Oct 27 12:52:10 Why would you use a region specific version? Oct 27 12:52:14 it was released a month later Oct 27 12:52:17 Oddly - my UK phone is not OTAd Oct 27 12:52:19 1.3 can run wiicontrol? Oct 27 12:52:20 Use a darn global version Oct 27 12:52:25 MohammadAG51: it's possible she was incorrect; she did get it fairly recently Oct 27 12:52:37 BCMM: not only to save weight... batteries are out of warranty in most countries as it is a consumable Oct 27 12:52:41 Several people here have said they OTAd in the UK Oct 27 12:52:42 BCMM, check dpkg -l mp-fremantle* Oct 27 12:52:50 Termana: what's the diff? Oct 27 12:52:53 UK is 203? Oct 27 12:52:55 heh I don't think I've actually witnessed PR1.1.1 releases, namely because I got my n900 fairly late Oct 27 12:53:03 BCMM, none, global's just better Oct 27 12:53:13 ^ Oct 27 12:53:19 anyways, i have plans for a proper SSU now Oct 27 12:53:21 Also, you don't get delayed Oct 27 12:53:27 worked a lot on it yesterday Oct 27 12:53:31 MohammadAG51: what does that mean? surely there wouldn't be seperate versions if they were identical? Oct 27 12:53:36 MohammadAG51, yeah 203 is UK Oct 27 12:53:46 I buyed mine in february and got PR1.1 Oct 27 12:53:54 Then, i got a copy when that one borked, that had PR1.0 Oct 27 12:53:59 BCMM, I think there is some nitty gritty changes but generally they are all the same Oct 27 12:54:03 And, my three SIM card didn't work ;_; Oct 27 12:54:08 lol Oct 27 12:54:18 Pretty much everything looked different in PR1.0 Oct 27 12:54:29 here, in brazil, i got my global n900 for 793 dollars :-( But the brazilian version is about 1180 dollars o_o Oct 27 12:54:37 Termana: you have to reflash to switch to a global release, right? Oct 27 12:54:42 too many taxes Oct 27 12:54:47 I got mine around may 2010, so I guess it would have been pr1.1.1 but I didn't confirm it Oct 27 12:54:52 BCMM, yes Oct 27 12:54:56 Termana: oh i know, it's stuff like default FM power and stuff which various by jurisdiction, right? Oct 27 12:55:03 PR1.2 were released in May 2010 Oct 27 12:55:05 BCMM, yes Oct 27 12:55:14 Yay, rtcom Oct 27 12:55:18 it will be done finally, soon Oct 27 12:55:26 Termana: so how do you tell which regional version a device is running? Oct 27 12:55:34 maybe the one i've seen is actually global Oct 27 12:55:41 damn crashes Oct 27 12:55:44 Also, I always have flashed mine for updates, so it never bothered me. Plus I think Australia is global default anyway Oct 27 12:55:50 BCMM, version number will tell you Oct 27 12:55:57 In Settings -> About Device Oct 27 12:55:57 hrm, how? Oct 27 12:56:14 Termana: version number tells you the region? Oct 27 12:56:18 The end number tells you. 0 is global, 203 is UK, the others I don't know Oct 27 12:56:22 ah Oct 27 12:56:23 thanks Oct 27 12:56:28 eduardowoj, I guess its more or less the same everywhere, but I've heard of a story of some bloke here bought n900 before it was officially released locally and the early n900 suffered USB socket problems (pre-releases mainly) and he was a victim of it. He couldn't take it to his local nokia care because he doesn't have a valid warranty (device is purchased overseas) Oct 27 12:57:03 psycho_oreos, Nokia Care should still repair it. For a cost. Oct 27 12:57:06 * RST38h moos distractedly Oct 27 12:57:14 10.2010.19-1 Oct 27 12:57:18 Which would be lower than buying a new one, for just the USB port Oct 27 12:57:18 is my version Oct 27 12:57:32 Termana, yeah the bloke later on didn't bother with it, I guess he lost interest in n900 completely Oct 27 12:57:51 pr1.0 had the best conversations app Oct 27 12:57:55 Good mornign RST38h Oct 27 12:57:58 morning* Oct 27 12:58:02 good scrolling, good repainting of widget Oct 27 12:58:08 Good moorning Oct 27 12:58:32 Mohammad: Conversations uses MicroB instance + some CSS to render things Oct 27 12:58:46 Mohammad: Which, of course, makes it very configurable, but does nothing to improve performance Oct 27 12:58:48 The only Nokia care around here is on the other side of town, last year when i had to replace the keypad of my N73 i ended up paying a local repair shop to have it done, it was ready the next day (it would have been the same day if they hadn't ran out of black keypads) Oct 27 12:58:54 Especially when you chat with multiple people Oct 27 12:59:05 Termana: is there a table of the region codes online somewhere? Oct 27 12:59:06 pr1.1.1 had the ability to be able to `window-ise' media player and with proper scaling, pr1.2 doesn't have that capability Oct 27 12:59:08 RST38h, yeah I know Oct 27 12:59:18 it uses browserd Oct 27 12:59:20 lol Oct 27 12:59:21 Tiago: Replacing a keypad takes 30 minutes at a local electronics market Oct 27 12:59:27 BCMM, possibly. Or you could just look at the version numbers on the images on tablets-dev Oct 27 12:59:45 Tiago: Doing it through Nokia.... you know. Oct 27 12:59:46 nice finally an update I didn't need to reflash Oct 27 12:59:51 lol Oct 27 12:59:53 CSS sucks though Oct 27 13:00:09 Termana: there's one here that came from carphone warehouse, briefly pre-own and reflashed before resale, with a version ending .36-2 Oct 27 13:00:19 Termana: that's a good point, i'll look there Oct 27 13:00:20 Mohammad: QML uses CSS Oct 27 13:00:40 Mohammad: Or CSS-like script, anyway. Maybe it will be faster at rendering then MicroB though Oct 27 13:00:57 Mohammad: Which brings a nice application idea: Conversations replacement in QML =) Oct 27 13:01:40 RST38h: it doesn't even look like CSS Oct 27 13:01:42 I am sure Quim will be ecstatic, as it is fully aligned with his goals Oct 27 13:01:50 asj: Looks CSS enough to me. Oct 27 13:02:24 RST38h: then you don't know CSS and QML, just becaus esomething is "blah: other" doesn't make it CSS Oct 27 13:03:28 any official "testers" online? I really would like to hear from you why you don't care to check mycontacts... Oct 27 13:03:30 CSS has {} in it, and therefore is a dialect of C Oct 27 13:03:31 * BCMM dugs Oct 27 13:03:36 * BCMM ducks Oct 27 13:03:40 lol Oct 27 13:04:11 asj: Ok, I do not know CSS or QML :) Oct 27 13:04:16 then, pretty much every language is a dialect of C :D Oct 27 13:04:20 ;) Oct 27 13:04:33 except for B Oct 27 13:04:36 CSS is a dialect of JSON! Oct 27 13:04:38 * RST38h hides now Oct 27 13:04:44 yay tablet-browsing-ui Oct 27 13:04:49 fcrochik: Because today I need to clean the surround to my pond, make a stew, phone my insurance people to correct fuckups, fill out a huge form, pack away some potatos. Oct 27 13:04:50 * asj_ goes to bed Oct 27 13:04:51 almost done Oct 27 13:04:56 ... Oct 27 13:05:11 Someone should make an esolang based on smileys, that would be fun Oct 27 13:05:25 anyone feeling like defacing a website real quick? Oct 27 13:05:28 SpeedEvil: in other words: busy with something more important? Oct 27 13:05:33 :) :( :@ ;) :O :) :) :(? Oct 27 13:05:50 crashanddie, if I knew how to, i would've defaced facebook Oct 27 13:05:53 :{ :) :) :} Oct 27 13:05:54 sure, and include asian style ones as well Oct 27 13:06:09 MohammadAG51, http://mobilemru.com/meetup/signup.php Oct 27 13:06:14 ^_^ Oct 27 13:06:15 technically, how is defacing done? Oct 27 13:06:15 the search box Oct 27 13:06:20 fcrochik: Pretty much - I'd like to be testing more apps, but it falls off the end of my list. Oct 27 13:06:29 MohammadAG51, if you type a specific sql string, you get direct access to his database Oct 27 13:06:31 hack the server and change the content of files Oct 27 13:06:45 sql inject? heh Oct 27 13:06:56 * DocScrutinizer yawns Oct 27 13:07:12 a quick example, in the search box, type ' and 1 = 0; -- Oct 27 13:07:18 (space after the double dashes, important) Oct 27 13:07:26 it should return no results Oct 27 13:07:32 ehm Oct 27 13:07:51 SpeedEvil: I completely understand... and do you think the "process" is still good/works? Oct 27 13:07:52 last time i checked you can't really change content with SQL if you don't run ASP Oct 27 13:08:00 and PHP > ASP :< Oct 27 13:08:09 FIQ, well, you can change his homepage blog posts Oct 27 13:08:31 MohammadAG51, also, I've noticed he has wordpress installed, so checking if there is a wp_users table: ' or exists(select *from INFORMATION_SCHEMA.TABLES where TABLE_NAME LIKE 'wp\_posts'); -- Oct 27 13:08:45 err, that should be wp_users Oct 27 13:08:54 er Oct 27 13:08:59 wouldn't that need quotes? Oct 27 13:09:07 and, you can use union as well :D Oct 27 13:09:48 quotes is more often blocked than just continuing a statement without them (look ?foo=(supposed to be an int here)) Oct 27 13:10:21 <_berto_> someone promote this to extras-testing: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/qstardict/0.13.2-3fb2/ Oct 27 13:10:22 SpeedEvil: Mycontacts package is on testing since 09/17. Now with PR1.3 even if promoted will not work. I created a new package yesterday that works just fine and now if I decide to promote it to testing will remove the previous one and still may never see the day light....I can't believe people think this makes sense... Oct 27 13:10:24 Btw, googling ' and 1 = 0; -- gives nothing of interest Oct 27 13:10:48 google strips punctuation Oct 27 13:11:25 even if you quote everything? Oct 27 13:11:29 yeah Oct 27 13:11:46 shame on them Oct 27 13:11:55 http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22-%22 Oct 27 13:12:03 it's a pain Oct 27 13:12:09 happens that i want to search for a site when i know the exact content Oct 27 13:12:11 SpeedEvil: this process for me only promotes not getting applications up to date.... It should at least treat initial applications different than upgrades.... as an user after I install one application I pretty much start "trusting" it and want it to be the latest.... Oct 27 13:12:15 but not the site Oct 27 13:12:25 just googling words don't always help Oct 27 13:12:37 BCMM: that's bad Oct 27 13:13:06 crashanddie, a bit lame, thats sqlinjection, not usually defacement Oct 27 13:13:07 googling www ftw Oct 27 13:13:18 gives some results out there :D Oct 27 13:14:00 crash, have you worked out how to actually list all users signed up then Oct 27 13:14:29 Hi! Are there Gnutella clients for Fremantle? Oct 27 13:14:52 yay, the update is pretty much done Oct 27 13:14:58 it's just setting everything up atm Oct 27 13:15:57 ebzzry: heh, that still exists? Oct 27 13:16:03 * BCMM hands ebzzry a bittorrent client Oct 27 13:16:42 Is there any known ways to use a N900 to prevent a nearby iPhone from connecting to the cell network? (I mean, other than throwing it at the person trying to use the iPhone) Oct 27 13:17:39 Just chuck their iPhone in the microwave Oct 27 13:17:51 :-D Oct 27 13:17:52 And if they really piss you off, start the microwave Oct 27 13:17:58 fcrochik: ack. Has been discussed several times, no idea about last common sense if any Oct 27 13:18:01 lol Oct 27 13:18:02 lol Oct 27 13:18:15 I'd play `iphonefly' Oct 27 13:18:26 catch the iphone! *smash* woops Oct 27 13:18:33 TiagoTiago: play very loud music? Oct 27 13:18:46 use several n900s, overwhelm teh tower Oct 27 13:19:07 what is n900fly actually? Oct 27 13:19:15 lol Oct 27 13:19:16 DocScrutinizer: I know it has... It is just that still does not make sense to me and it seems that people are happy with it... so I keep trying to understand.... Oct 27 13:19:28 Is it actually serious about throwing the N900, or is it just simulation? D: Oct 27 13:19:30 it uses the accelerometers to estimate how high the N900 has been flung Oct 27 13:19:33 FIQ: you throw the n900; it uses acelerometer data to tell you how high it went Oct 27 13:19:37 wat Oct 27 13:19:44 ... Oct 27 13:19:46 i have not installed it Oct 27 13:19:48 I think you're supposed to throw and catch your n900 Oct 27 13:19:51 fcrochik: stop trying this - it might hurt your brain :-) Oct 27 13:19:52 Do people actually use that? Oct 27 13:20:02 neither have I.. wouldn't want to miss catching your n900 :) Oct 27 13:20:07 I'm waiting eversince i read about it for someone to use it while skydiving Oct 27 13:20:10 FIQ: i don't know, are there any stats on packages? Oct 27 13:20:19 you could use it for other things Oct 27 13:20:21 like Oct 27 13:20:27 throwing yourself Oct 27 13:20:35 while holding an n900 Oct 27 13:20:43 FIQ: Yes, just roll it into a sleeping bag Oct 27 13:20:51 lcuk, what did you say your high score was? Oct 27 13:20:56 i have it on just for kicks, only tried a few <10cm throws over my bed Oct 27 13:21:25 DocScrutinizer: I will perfectly happy if people tell me that the applications I created are useless and that is why nobody cares... but it does not seem the case and still I have to see people that have an very old version w/o good reason. Oct 27 13:21:34 it's a conspiracy by nokia to sell more n900s Oct 27 13:21:50 lol Oct 27 13:22:17 so owners can see how far they threw their device in angerness? ;) Oct 27 13:22:33 If that was the case they should have made a prog for sending morse code by pluging and unpluging the USB charger Oct 27 13:22:34 lol Oct 27 13:22:39 @ BCMM Oct 27 13:22:44 BCMM: Thanks, but there are still things that are unavailable or difficult to obtain via BitTorrent. Oct 27 13:22:45 fcrochik: seems your best bet is to ask for testers here, every once in a while Oct 27 13:22:53 Hahah Oct 27 13:22:55 indeed Oct 27 13:22:59 throwing phones is a valid sport in Finland Oct 27 13:22:59 @ TiagoTiago Oct 27 13:23:00 PErhaps on tmo too? Oct 27 13:23:14 Yeah, but that's OLD phones Oct 27 13:23:17 * TiagoTiago nods Oct 27 13:23:18 GSM ones Oct 27 13:23:20 achipa, on open grounds? Oct 27 13:23:21 lol Oct 27 13:23:26 New ones are too light to make it a good sport Oct 27 13:23:37 except for n900 :| Oct 27 13:23:44 psycho_oreos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_throwing Oct 27 13:23:51 psycho_oreos, How did I *KNOW* someone was going to say that Oct 27 13:24:11 Someone should wrap a N900 in bubblewrap, start N900fly via VNC/SSH, and place it one one of those trebuchets that fling cars Oct 27 13:24:15 FIQ: no, these are aerodynamically optimized heavy phones Oct 27 13:24:30 achipa, :| that's crazy.. I wouldn't dare throw my n900 just for fun Oct 27 13:24:31 k Oct 27 13:24:34 Termana, o.O which? Oct 27 13:24:41 but still not phones you use Oct 27 13:25:45 psycho_oreos, (How did I know someone would say in response to "new ones are too light") except for n900 Oct 27 13:26:03 Someone had to make the "brick" joke Oct 27 13:26:22 Termana, lol Oct 27 13:26:34 I'm sure n900 isn't the only brick :) Oct 27 13:26:45 N900: The most usefull doorstop you will ever own Oct 27 13:26:58 it still doesn't feel as solid as a 3410 Oct 27 13:26:59 plus comparing n900 with a brick is kinda moot.. brick is useless, n900 isn't Oct 27 13:27:22 Not really, with bricks you can build schools, and you can break windows :P Oct 27 13:27:23 i have literally drop-kicked my 3410 on many occasions Oct 27 13:27:38 heh, using 2 of those doorstops I "built" a RF remote for my TV yesterday. Very handy Oct 27 13:27:41 well.. bricks in my house are way more useful than n900 ever :) Oct 27 13:27:55 BCMM, in Soviet Russia, phone drop-kick you! Oct 27 13:28:02 that's what stones are for, for breaking windows or to crack skulls (with enough velocity) Oct 27 13:28:12 lcuk, those 3 users are the only users Oct 27 13:28:16 lcuk, I've deleted the rest Oct 27 13:28:28 My father had a Nokia (i don't remember the model), he dropped it while riding his bike, ran over it, he only had to replace the screen Oct 27 13:29:02 Well, older phones needs more treat to be destroyed :) Oct 27 13:29:10 heh Oct 27 13:29:39 much like cars these days ;) metal bumpers on old cars and plastic bumpers on current cars Oct 27 13:30:32 psycho_oreos, better at impact absorption. Would you rather you or your car be crippled? Oct 27 13:30:46 Except that with cars they are meant to be easilly destroyed; there is no pilot and no pedestrian to be saved by dissipating energy with breaking the hardware of a mobile Oct 27 13:31:58 TiagoTiago: not a 3410 then; if you did that to a 3410 it would be just a new fascia Oct 27 13:32:06 crashanddie: you might be interested: just start irreco on both devices, place one directly in front of appliance to IR control, on the other one you replace "localhost" by IP of first device, in irreco edit -> device controllers -> edit Oct 27 13:32:11 kinda awesome the way they had a replaceable plastic shield over the screen Oct 27 13:32:15 Termana, all for the pedestrian sake.. but what if it was you versus a pole? :) metal bumpers can be hammered back into shape, plastic bumpers needs to be completely replaced (you can't even fix it let alone believing a fixed plastic bumper would be deemed safe) Oct 27 13:32:28 I wonder if by the end of the century cars will still be the thing that is used as analogy or comparison to anything from desktop operating systems to mobile phones to the economy Oct 27 13:32:49 DocScrutinizer, i thought it was only a transmitter? Oct 27 13:33:04 crashanddie: err, yes Oct 27 13:33:07 TiagoTiago: well, it's the complex machine that everyone knows, and most people have at least an extremely vague understanding of hte workings of Oct 27 13:33:13 DocScrutinizer, didn't compute then Oct 27 13:33:14 not for WiFi though Oct 27 13:33:16 cars and technology gadgetry stuff are known to be man's usually most tinkered toys Oct 27 13:33:27 TiagoTiago: in a century, i'd expect a computer to be the thing people use for analogies Oct 27 13:34:06 ^everybody owns Oct 27 13:34:10 crashanddie: lirc on proxy device in front of TV lstening to ....:8765 Oct 27 13:34:19 but computers have bneen changing so fast for such a short span of time, i dunno if they could develop the same zeitgast standard as cars have Oct 27 13:34:51 i think i misspelled the german loanword Oct 27 13:34:59 unfortunately cars are for more expensive to produce compare to say a SOHO router Oct 27 13:35:02 Hello, Is there any tool like dpkg-buildpackage or tutorial on the best practice on creating .deb packages for PyQt4 apps? Oct 27 13:35:14 TiagoTiago: needs moar i and e in the wrong order Oct 27 13:35:15 crashanddie: now tell irreco on remote device not to use localhost:8765 but instead :8765 Oct 27 13:35:17 s/for/far/ Oct 27 13:35:18 psycho_oreos meant: unfartunately cars are for more expensive to produce compare to say a SOHO router Oct 27 13:35:28 TiagoTiago: it's a good rule of thumb for spelling german Oct 27 13:35:35 I can create .db with ar and tar, of course, but I think there must be some more right way. Oct 27 13:35:37 lol Oct 27 13:35:43 bot fails Oct 27 13:35:56 well, it's convincing, if not always actually correct Oct 27 13:36:09 lol Oct 27 13:36:49 psycho_oreos: you fail Oct 27 13:37:22 DocScrutinizer, no bot fails :) there's two instances of words matching for but the bot replaced one Oct 27 13:37:31 divan, see how healthcheck does it Oct 27 13:37:40 or psfreedom 0.3, not 0.5 Oct 27 13:37:54 psycho_oreos: so what? it's exactly what you asked for Oct 27 13:38:03 s/a/A/g Oct 27 13:38:03 DocScrutinizer meant: psycho_oreos: so whAt? it's exActly whAt you Asked for Oct 27 13:38:30 man sed :P Oct 27 13:38:40 DocScrutinizer, meh Oct 27 13:38:58 psycho_oreos, no /g makes it replace the first instance Oct 27 13:39:21 MohammadAG51, thanks. Oct 27 13:39:22 MohammadAG51, I thought it was per line basis without /g Oct 27 13:39:43 replaces every instance Oct 27 13:39:46 which regex dialect does infobot implement? Oct 27 13:39:48 er Oct 27 13:39:49 ups Oct 27 13:39:51 /g means global Oct 27 13:39:53 replaces every instance Oct 27 13:40:03 mgedmin, sed Oct 27 13:40:04 * FIQ failed there and executed /g as a command Oct 27 13:40:12 that means POSIX basic regexs, right? Oct 27 13:40:20 FIQ, it happens :P Oct 27 13:40:31 Has it been upgraded, last I tried it was not a regex engine, but a string replacer. Oct 27 13:40:44 hmm Oct 27 13:40:44 mgedmin: a crippled string search/replace, without special chars or wildcards allowed Oct 27 13:40:45 foo bar Oct 27 13:40:51 s/^/meh\,/ Oct 27 13:40:52 er Oct 27 13:40:57 foo/////test////////AAAAAAAA Oct 27 13:40:58 lol Oct 27 13:41:11 s/\//\\/g Oct 27 13:41:15 ;_; Oct 27 13:41:29 http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/27/bus-that-travels-over-traffic-longs-for-us-embrace-designer-see/ <=== Yess, please! Oct 27 13:42:19 Would using the cell data conection with the N900 look like using a laptop + a mobile phone as modem from the point of view of the carrier? Oct 27 13:42:28 yep Oct 27 13:42:47 s/.+/dunno/ Oct 27 13:42:52 TiagoTiago: exactly Oct 27 13:43:17 hmm Oct 27 13:43:18 * MohammadAG51 wants to make a homescreen widget that properly controls the media player Oct 27 13:43:20 s/./=/ Oct 27 13:43:54 mgedmin: no, it doesn't work with any special chars Oct 27 13:44:04 s/o,/o, / Oct 27 13:44:04 DocScrutinizer meant: mgedmin: no, it doesn't work with any special chars Oct 27 13:44:11 I wonder if i'll have to go to court over this....,the carrier says you are only allowed to use that data plan with the mobile itself, not tethering Oct 27 13:44:19 hmm , is no special char yet Oct 27 13:44:39 TiagoTiago, did your provider disconnect you claiming you tethered? Oct 27 13:44:40 YAY Oct 27 13:44:41 finally Oct 27 13:44:45 PR1.3 upgrading done Oct 27 13:44:51 Took more than 3 hours Oct 27 13:44:54 i havcen't subscribed to the dataplan yet, but i'm considering Oct 27 13:44:59 FIQ: wow, slow connection? Oct 27 13:45:03 no Oct 27 13:45:05 TiagoTiago, most providers do not aggressively check that Oct 27 13:45:15 actually the download took just 5-10 minutes Oct 27 13:45:22 TiagoTiago: forget it, they can't even check Oct 27 13:45:43 it unpacked every package in like 20 secs Oct 27 13:45:45 because it requires quite intense deep packet inspection to tell the difference Oct 27 13:45:47 they just do heuristics about data volume, ports/services used etc Oct 27 13:45:48 dunno why Oct 27 13:46:03 yeah Oct 27 13:46:10 it's a nice dataplan, i can have it while still having a prepaid, it's only 50 cents (of my country) per day (or fraction) of use Oct 27 13:46:39 but if you use more than the quota of bytes on a day, or for the month, it will automaticly drop the speed Oct 27 13:46:46 so, why are there all these different kernels going around? next to the default this poweruser kernel, and if you want to use the wifi hotspot app a different custom kernel Oct 27 13:47:21 ah, now I see the hotspot needs the poweruser kernel .. but still the app doesn't work here .. Oct 27 13:47:47 so i'm wondering if besides the automatic byte counter they might have somthing that analyzes the dataflow using some simple heuristics to determine if it isn't tethering Oct 27 13:47:49 dreamer: nope, hotspot is using powerkernel. It is because stock kernel doesn't support a number of features, like netfilters etc Oct 27 13:48:08 mobilehotspot that is? Oct 27 13:48:12 DocScrutinizer: yeah I just saw, but the app still isn't working (I thought I needed yet another kernel for this) Oct 27 13:48:17 because, i installed power kernel only because of that Oct 27 13:48:20 but still nothing Oct 27 13:48:21 any idea how long untill the power kernel is updated to keep up with pr.1.3? Oct 27 13:48:39 TiagoTiago: ask titan Oct 27 13:48:59 Those buses must be a bitch to be under on turns and near exits Oct 27 13:49:31 TiagoTiago: err wut? Oct 27 13:49:56 The bus on that engadget post someonementioned here a few minutes ago Oct 27 13:51:10 I just get 'HotSpot failed to start' Oct 27 13:52:02 dreamer: you'll need a pr1.3 compatible version, I guess Oct 27 13:52:06 TiagoTiago, RTFA, traffic lights and flow control Oct 27 13:52:21 ~RTFA Oct 27 13:52:21 * lcuk saw that a couple of weeks ago Oct 27 13:52:35 read the fine article ;) Oct 27 13:52:39 ah Oct 27 13:52:55 DocScrutinizer: ah yes, I see from the commandline that maybe it needs a newer kernel Oct 27 13:52:59 so we'll have to wait for that .. Oct 27 13:53:06 they don't say much on that page.... Oct 27 13:53:28 i think t-tan retired Oct 27 13:53:33 don't see him around a lot Oct 27 13:53:43 yep Oct 27 13:55:20 lcuk: ??? Oct 27 13:55:31 :( Oct 27 13:57:37 Talk seems less reactionary than would be normal to PR1.3 Oct 27 13:58:35 what do you mean? Oct 27 13:59:36 bbl, maybe 3 hours or so Oct 27 14:00:27 GAN900, haven't you heard? Oct 27 14:00:42 Termana, what? Oct 27 14:00:51 GAN900, PR1.4 is where it's at! Oct 27 14:00:53 TiagoTiago, not enough anger Oct 27 14:00:55 :p Oct 27 14:01:06 Termana, jokes on you, there aint gonna be one! Oct 27 14:01:22 pr1.5 ftw Oct 27 14:01:42 PErhaps all the people that were gonna jump the gun gave up during the period tmo was not managing the load Oct 27 14:01:59 pr2;0 is what i'm waiting for Oct 27 14:02:02 2.0* Oct 27 14:03:08 GAN900: They did not fix the phone app bug :))) Oct 27 14:06:50 i'm confused, i thought i had seen the article, but now i see another article that might be the same but is different... Oct 27 14:08:48 jacekowski: ping Oct 27 14:09:23 jacekowski: what's been the story around bootloader updates in PR1.3? Oct 27 14:09:28 Stskeeps: ^^^ Oct 27 14:12:27 anybody else? NOLO in PR1.3? Oct 27 14:12:33 Would be fun to have those monsters on OpenTTD Oct 27 14:15:12 RST38h, what bugs DID they fix. Oct 27 14:15:26 Good news is we can ship our own updates now Oct 27 14:15:40 Since there's zero chance Nokia will be shipping more. Oct 27 14:15:51 lol Oct 27 14:17:30 From what i've heard it seems like they didn't fix and add enough to satisfy many people, i have a feeling we will still see a .4 and .5 is still in the realms of possibility even if with much lower probability Oct 27 14:20:16 TiagoTiago, Say hi to Santa for me, will ya? Oct 27 14:20:23 will do Oct 27 14:21:08 morning gentlemen Oct 27 14:21:35 * javispedro is back to normal and hating tmo, after the PM storm. Oct 27 14:22:21 rehello javispedro Oct 27 14:22:46 lol, can't handle being famous for beinging webos games tot he N900? Oct 27 14:22:51 bringing* Oct 27 14:22:57 I cannot handle idiots. Oct 27 14:22:58 javispedro: PM? Oct 27 14:23:36 quality of error reports has been steadily decreasing. Right now I get "does not work" (without any attach information)-style reports. Oct 27 14:23:50 javispedro: Ignore them. Oct 27 14:23:56 Previously, I got attached _invented_ error messages. Oct 27 14:24:30 If you ignore them, they will at some point disappear and what you have left are semi-normal users Oct 27 14:24:37 Far from the high quality reports that made me say a few days ago that "tmo was worth it". Oct 27 14:24:47 It also helps to switch from tmo to a moderated google group Oct 27 14:24:56 Is there somewhere a checklist of thigns i should try after installing pr1.3? Oct 27 14:25:01 javispedro: That is the engadget effect probably ;) Oct 27 14:26:06 X-Fade: very probably Oct 27 14:29:51 lo javispedro Oct 27 14:30:38 TiagoTiago, not based on what I've heard. Oct 27 14:30:39 hi Oct 27 14:31:49 TiagoTiago, [X] Everything you are interested in. Oct 27 14:31:55 lol Oct 27 14:32:07 * X-Fade points GAN900 to #maemo-ssu Oct 27 14:32:24 lcuk: javispedro: X-Fade: what's been the story around bootloader updates in PR1.3? Oct 27 14:32:39 DocScrutinizer: No changes afaik. Oct 27 14:32:56 if there has been any change, not documented. Oct 27 14:33:06 why you ask, DocScrutinizer? Oct 27 14:33:20 I seem to remember buzzwords like kexec, m-shield Oct 27 14:33:33 javispedro: it's me installing pr1.3 on a pre-production device. Oct 27 14:33:39 I think i read somewhere that its ready for doing the dualboot with meego, but it isn't doing it as it is, you gotta make it do it yourself Oct 27 14:33:57 NOLO has always been able to start uboot. Oct 27 14:34:08 that's all known Oct 27 14:34:13 So that is the way to start meego ;) Oct 27 14:34:18 javispedro: and there're "2nd", "secondary" and "xloader" embedded in the fiasco image, and i've no idea if i should flash them and if yes, then which version (that fiasco image has several of every). Oct 27 14:34:35 Just a package in extras-devel which set the bootmenu and boot from sd? Oct 27 14:35:14 PaulFertser: no idea, never got a preprod device. Oct 27 14:35:31 PaulFertser: I'd search and/or ask -devel, maybe a Nokian can pick the story up Oct 27 14:35:37 javispedro: somebody should know why those BL parts are included in the fiasco image for update... Oct 27 14:36:00 and jacekowski I seem to recall mentioned some fixes needed in m-shield handling in xloader, to make either security framework or kexec work Oct 27 14:36:10 javispedro: i'm afraid to join -devel as i'm supposed to be always distracting the developers from the real work by useless rants. Oct 27 14:36:51 DocScrutinizer: no, kexec does not need nolo work Oct 27 14:37:01 well, that I know of.. Oct 27 14:37:08 javispedro: thanks, finaly one decent bit of info Oct 27 14:37:18 DocScrutinizer: as I am no insider I can't be 100% sure. Oct 27 14:37:21 I'd be actually surprised if it did. Oct 27 14:37:33 tbh me too Oct 27 14:37:47 prolly mixed it up with security framework Oct 27 14:37:55 jacekowski: PING!! Oct 27 14:38:08 security framework might need, but... this was implemented in PR1.3? O.o Oct 27 14:38:12 There is no security framework. Oct 27 14:38:46 X-Fade: isn't there *any* documentation of the basic operation scheme of N900 booting (early stages, like xloader, NOLO etc) ? Oct 27 14:39:01 DocScrutinizer: Why would one care? Oct 27 14:39:36 X-Fade: see above, see uBoot & meego, see security framework for meego Oct 27 14:39:53 DocScrutinizer: uboot lives in kernel. Oct 27 14:40:03 err? Oct 27 14:40:03 No need for bootloader support. Oct 27 14:40:11 Well attached to kernel. Oct 27 14:40:38 DocScrutinizer: the security framework nightware^W^W stuff lives in Harmattan, not Meego Oct 27 14:40:51 uboot - a little bit of padding - kernel, all flashed to the kernel partition. Oct 27 14:41:08 yes, but otherwise quite unrelated Oct 27 14:41:27 they share one partition, that's all basically, aiui Oct 27 14:42:54 X-Fade: (why one should care) how to e.g. make a backup of a currently flashed kernel? How to flash anything without proprietary apps? I'd say these questions are imprortant and practical enough. Oct 27 14:43:21 0xFFFF Oct 27 14:43:32 X-Fade: there's zero documentation about coldflash, how it's done, and what it does, for example. Beyond what's in flasher --help and what jacekowski gathered from disassembling BL and *testing* it Oct 27 14:43:33 javispedro: i do use that. Unfortunately, the support is incomplete. Oct 27 14:43:59 DocScrutinizer: Well yes, F and M-bus are not public either. Oct 27 14:44:17 javispedro: works for flashing via USB but not for making backups or (probably) flashing from the userspace of the device itself. Oct 27 14:44:38 X-Fade: but F and M buses are supported by free software since long (gnokii). Oct 27 14:45:00 lo PaulFertser Oct 27 14:45:13 Stskeeps: hi, i'm glad to see you again :) Oct 27 14:45:20 X-Fade: they are no secret nevertheless, so I'd expect at least one sentence somewhere, like "coldflashing on N900 is done via USB, on N8x0 it needs a jig connecting to F-Bus" Oct 27 14:45:33 PaulFertser: was that sarcasm? ;p Oct 27 14:45:59 DocScrutinizer: Afaik you need the pads on the back. Oct 27 14:45:59 hehehe, F-Bus Oct 27 14:46:47 X-Fade: jacekowski claims he coldflashed via USB on N900 Oct 27 14:47:10 he further claims there's proper code in ROM bl to do this Oct 27 14:47:51 PaulFertser, there's no such thing as a "FIASCO image for an update" Oct 27 14:47:59 PaulFertser, think of it like a recovery disc. Oct 27 14:48:03 THAT is the kind of info I *expect* Nokia is sharing to community, rather than a hazardeur trying it by risking his device Oct 27 14:49:02 DocScrutinizer: Well, I'll bet you'll never see that. Oct 27 14:49:27 yeah, I fear you're right :-/ Oct 27 14:49:38 DocScrutinizer, consumer device. :P Oct 27 14:49:45 MUHAHA Oct 27 14:50:19 * GAN900 needs to poke timsamoff about camera kit recommendations for Dublin. Oct 27 14:50:56 means recovery is a service (not) offered at Nokia Care Centers - as those dudes have NFC about coldflashing and things Oct 27 14:51:13 Stskeeps: nah, i'm really glad. Oct 27 14:51:35 DocScrutinizer: central does have a coldflashing machine, though, at least here. Oct 27 14:51:44 GAN900: yes, ok, i meant fiasco image corresponding to pr1.3. Oct 27 14:52:06 DocScrutinizer: first thing they do when you sent one there is put it into the cradle and coldflash it Oct 27 14:52:48 yes, they have that jig, and shit. But NFC what is going on when they use it Oct 27 14:52:57 true. Oct 27 14:53:33 who'd recover a not booting device with invaluable precious info stored to rootfs somewhere? Oct 27 14:53:52 let's say when CSI comes asking for it? Oct 27 14:54:01 hah Oct 27 14:54:03 csi does not exist Oct 27 14:54:09 seriously. Oct 27 14:54:09 hmm. at Rovio they commented the delay of Angry Bird on Android because of the fragmentation of the OS. isn't this actually where MeeGo/Maemo/Symbian + Qt fights better than Android? Oct 27 14:54:27 DocScrutinizer, you need a screwdriver, some cables and a microscope ... anyone can do, I bet .. Oct 27 14:54:36 ok, s/csi/Bundeskriminalamt/ Oct 27 14:54:49 peb: BS Oct 27 14:55:01 :-) Oct 27 14:55:03 DocScrutinizer: any country's "csi" would only request such a thing if it was very, very, very serious stuff. the kind that you _bring in_ the engineers from nokia hq Oct 27 14:55:26 isn't that *SAD* Oct 27 14:55:39 possibly Oct 27 14:55:41 at least in finland police have outsourced most of data recovery stuff like that to specialist companies/contractors Oct 27 14:55:54 what's about Nokia's "this is FOSS" attitude? Oct 27 14:56:14 i wonder why i keep getting disconnected... Oct 27 14:56:31 DocScrutinizer, good marketing? Oct 27 14:56:32 DocScrutinizer: getting worse with every device =) Oct 27 14:56:55 oh well that conversation died at the very beginning sentence :L Oct 27 14:57:10 "A challenger approaches" is the sound I want to hear. Oct 27 14:57:18 ohhh... Luigi! Oct 27 14:57:24 so they shouldn't feel surprised about community getting angry and calling names on them Oct 27 14:57:32 erani, theoretically, but not so great in execution. Oct 27 14:57:48 it's been kinda promise, and not published once but many times Oct 27 14:58:00 so heres an odd one Oct 27 14:58:04 DocScrutinizer, I love that they were surprised that people reacted badly to them dropping support. Oct 27 14:58:34 The worst part about Nokia's behavior is that there are still no better alternatives. Oct 27 14:58:38 installed preenv, tried to extract an ipk using dpkg to /home/user, halfway through it dies with a no space left on disk, and it seems my device's rootfs is now at 100% used Oct 27 14:59:11 nid0: you didn't use "dpkg -i" don't ya? Oct 27 14:59:24 no, tried to extract it with dpkg -x Oct 27 15:00:15 thing is, I cant see where the space has actually vanished to, bizzarely the device reboots fine but comes back up with 0 free space on rootfs still Oct 27 15:01:07 nid0: if you can manage to rm some crap prior to next boot, you still have a chance to avoid reflashing :-) Oct 27 15:01:39 err, sorry. missed the last post Oct 27 15:01:41 it already reboots - I figured dpkg had just been caching the extract somewhere i wasnt expecting so was hoping a reboot would clear it out Oct 27 15:02:10 so, strace it and look what files it creates Oct 27 15:02:48 strace isnt currently installed Oct 27 15:03:05 and neither dpkg or apt currently work, with rootfs having 0 space Oct 27 15:03:08 javi, any chance of a gui to do everything being released anytime soon? Oct 27 15:04:08 nid0: rm is your friend Oct 27 15:04:15 TiagoTiago: not planned. Oct 27 15:04:24 DocScrutinizer indeed, need to find *what- to rm though :p Oct 27 15:04:32 i see Oct 27 15:04:39 nid0: use du -sh /* Oct 27 15:04:44 du -x /|sort -n Oct 27 15:04:50 :) Oct 27 15:05:13 DocScrutinizer: nice! it even works in messybox Oct 27 15:05:20 oh. /usr/palm/applications Oct 27 15:05:33 Thigns would be a bit easier if you had StorageUsage installed Oct 27 15:05:53 seems dpkg tried to extract the whole ipk to there :\ Oct 27 15:06:33 I doubt dpkg would do that, so... possibly -x requires a "where_to_extract" argument Oct 27 15:06:42 i gave it one :\ Oct 27 15:07:00 possibly wrongly formatted though, im more familiar with rpm tbh Oct 27 15:09:15 X-Fade: for example it'd be mad useful to know about silly things like kernel cmdline passed by NOLO, and maybe even how to change it permanently. Implementing meego uBoot is a PITA without such info Oct 27 15:09:42 cmdline is passed by kernel Oct 27 15:09:45 DocScrutinizer: that is known afaik Oct 27 15:09:53 it is RE'd Oct 27 15:09:55 can be edited from .config file Oct 27 15:10:03 DocScrutinizer: Just look at serial console? Oct 27 15:10:06 but not documented for all I know Oct 27 15:10:10 how come media player cant play .flvs anymore Oct 27 15:10:26 CONFIG_DEFAULT_CMDLINE i think Oct 27 15:10:28 DocScrutinizer: kernel code is entirely open Oct 27 15:10:34 that's normal linux kernel Oct 27 15:10:36 stuff Oct 27 15:10:38 does it need a package of its own now? Oct 27 15:10:51 decoders-support Oct 27 15:11:02 i already had that Oct 27 15:11:07 before pr1.3 Oct 27 15:11:17 * MohammadAG51 tests Oct 27 15:11:35 X-Fade: I can give a "just do x, then y" for every single question that arises regarding xloader & NOLO, but the point is you don't always want or are not always equipped to do that particular thing. It needs an official doc Oct 27 15:12:06 they dont even show up in the player Oct 27 15:12:07 javispedro: I know kernel code is open Oct 27 15:12:09 The ring of fire is horseshoe shaped *pouts* Oct 27 15:13:06 and I know kernel does or can be patched to do logging of bootloader passed cmdline parameters Oct 27 15:14:07 MohammadAG51 says that the default boot cmdline is stored on the kernel itself, so what's only missing is the NOLO protocol for passing a cmdline that has been send through flasher's -b Oct 27 15:14:10 but I dunno how to change those, in NOLO. can it be done? by binary patching if nothing else helps - or will this break some checksum xloader runs over NOLO? Oct 27 15:14:44 jacekowski, might know Oct 27 15:14:46 and there's at least an open implementation of the receiving part of that protocol: the kernel. Oct 27 15:15:12 javispedro, changed it to boot from mmc once Oct 27 15:15:23 and meego does that too afaik (cc Stskeeps) Oct 27 15:15:25 There's a standardized way of supplying data to the kernel from bootloader (on ARM): ATAGs. Oct 27 15:15:28 MohammadAG51: that's my point. Everybody should be able to get to know Oct 27 15:15:40 PaulFertser: somehow I'm sure standarized!=Nokia ;P Oct 27 15:15:55 (but did not check it) Oct 27 15:16:01 DocScrutinizer, badly maintained wikis Oct 27 15:16:16 DocScrutinizer, lack of contributors, we lost Jebba for example Oct 27 15:16:33 MohammadAG51: Nokia core development and wiki are different universes Oct 27 15:17:09 MohammadAG51: where did he go? Oct 27 15:17:12 nice, bug 10613 i+ back Oct 27 15:17:13 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10613 screen glitches on incoming call Oct 27 15:17:27 sivang, he left, free vs non-free stff Oct 27 15:17:30 stuff Oct 27 15:17:40 fucking hildon-im long press shit Oct 27 15:17:44 MohammadAG51: went to work for Nokia? Oct 27 15:17:50 DocScrutinizer: offical docs problem is terrible Oct 27 15:17:58 sivang: ack Oct 27 15:18:01 err, what? Oct 27 15:18:04 that's my point Oct 27 15:18:05 DocScrutinizer: the SAD thing for me Oct 27 15:18:16 DocScrutinizer: well, for "US" or MeeGo i that regard Oct 27 15:18:17 sivang, you put words into other people's mouths :P Oct 27 15:18:21 MohammadAG51: hehe Oct 27 15:18:27 i said he left, how could he now work for nokia Oct 27 15:18:32 MohammadAG51: that's what we do, we're Isralies :-) Oct 27 15:18:36 he left cause he was pissed at non-ree Oct 27 15:18:37 MohammadAG51: ah okay Oct 27 15:18:42 MohammadAG51: yes I can understand Oct 27 15:18:51 non-free Oct 27 15:18:53 GRRR Oct 27 15:19:04 DocScrutinizer, how do i disable this piece of shit again? Oct 27 15:19:13 which? Oct 27 15:19:20 DocScrutinizer: take this as an example, it feels warm and welcoming: http://developer.android.com/guide/index.html Oct 27 15:19:29 loading the wiki to find the gconf line to do it is time consuming Oct 27 15:19:34 DocScrutinizer, long press Oct 27 15:19:40 something symbian users like Oct 27 15:20:02 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Oct 27 15:20:06 DocScrutinizer: documentation is the first line in bringing in more community....:....-( Oct 27 15:20:13 gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/inputmethod/ext_kb_repeat_enabled --type boolean true Oct 27 15:20:47 the issue with documentation is that autogenerated documentation is usually NOT what I want. Oct 27 15:20:51 MohammadAG51: they show up or play? Oct 27 15:21:21 mc_teo, yes, though i used the cli dbus command Oct 27 15:21:26 cba to use file manager Oct 27 15:21:28 autogenerated (usually) requires more to decide the function I'd like to use first Oct 27 15:21:30 javispedro: the android docs seem to you like something autogenerated? :) Oct 27 15:21:51 sivang: no, they're clearly not. More concerned about Maemo's ;) Oct 27 15:22:03 javispedro: ah :) Oct 27 15:22:06 also check the Apple ones for good ones Oct 27 15:22:15 they do not start listing the functions of a class Oct 27 15:22:16 and the Qt ones Oct 27 15:22:20 we have even a closer example Oct 27 15:22:20 the start by listing the USES of the class Oct 27 15:22:22 QT ! Oct 27 15:22:29 IMHO the Qt ones could be a bit better Oct 27 15:22:32 can't we get some QT documentor to start SERIOUSLY working on meego? Oct 27 15:22:42 but yes, they're very good when compared to everything we have here Oct 27 15:22:44 javispedro: bettere than any other offering at that ecossytem Oct 27 15:22:49 more examples would be great Oct 27 15:22:50 the best Oct 27 15:22:52 IMHO Oct 27 15:22:54 but i like hem Oct 27 15:22:58 me too Oct 27 15:23:05 i still consider myself a newbie to C++ Oct 27 15:23:12 it all boils down to Nokia's "consumer device" mindset, though this is clearly marketed as a FOS device, which to me seems antinom Oct 27 15:23:15 MohammadAG51: but sitll you can get along with the Qt docs? Oct 27 15:23:17 yet i've rewritten py code to C++ Oct 27 15:23:28 (with the help of people here of course) Oct 27 15:23:30 yeah Oct 27 15:23:43 so, I'm a veteran developer, and I have embedded experience under my belt Oct 27 15:23:53 still with what's on the meego wiki, I am not sure how to follow Oct 27 15:24:06 maybe I'm stupid Oct 27 15:24:10 and google's is your best friend, Oct 27 15:24:26 sivang: btw there are lists and irc channel for meego development Oct 27 15:24:26 in Nokia's dictionary consumer == closed&proprietary, so how are they going to produce a FOSS consumer device? Oct 27 15:24:44 Maemo 6 won't be open Oct 27 15:24:46 the pilot could have opted for an enhanced patdown Oct 27 15:25:07 MohammadAG51: how? Oct 27 15:25:15 sivang: full ack Oct 27 15:25:22 Maemo will never be open Oct 27 15:25:24 MeeGo is Oct 27 15:25:31 and MeeGo != Harmattan Oct 27 15:25:46 * MohammadAG51 should study, bbl Oct 27 15:25:55 MohammadAG51: we all know this (kind of saying) Oct 27 15:25:56 and wiki != reference Oct 27 15:26:24 and reference == foundation of any project like meego Oct 27 15:26:33 IMHO Good wiki content could be good docs. Oct 27 15:26:47 linking to even generated docs for more in-depth stuff. Oct 27 15:27:09 I like how the andriod docs hae a drill down or a link to every term they use, like the qt one has Oct 27 15:27:10 and who's in charge of reference/specs? Nokia, when it comes to Nokia devices Oct 27 15:27:20 but the missing parts of generated docs, AKA "Topics: Drawing things to Screen. Sound & Video. Placing calls." could be put on a Wiki Oct 27 15:27:24 and updated generously Oct 27 15:27:39 we need a documentation user story :) Oct 27 15:28:22 John is a user. He wants documentation. Oct 27 15:28:28 end of story Oct 27 15:28:30 hehehehe Oct 27 15:28:40 would you guys be able to provide this input in meego-communty ML if I fire off a thread? Oct 27 15:28:54 this is related to the fact I am trying to gather information for that talk of mine Oct 27 15:29:09 my threads about documentation has been so far mostly, sort-of ignored :) Oct 27 15:29:25 sivang: take a talk with townxelliot at some point and try to meet up with ronan maclaverty in dublin Oct 27 15:29:35 Stskeeps: I will :) Oct 27 15:29:51 Stskeeps: again I'm not bashing, I'm in *true* concern for the projct Oct 27 15:29:59 I love them both, maemo and meego Oct 27 15:30:01 the best kind of concern Oct 27 15:30:01 :P Oct 27 15:30:06 hehe Oct 27 15:30:14 Stskeeps: the road to hell is full of good concerns? Oct 27 15:30:15 :) Oct 27 15:30:54 mgedmin: LOL Oct 27 15:30:57 MohammadAG51: how? Oct 27 15:30:58 whats the dbus command? Oct 27 15:32:19 Did Nokia really loose money on each N900 sale? Oct 27 15:32:53 "loose"? Oct 27 15:32:55 dude Oct 27 15:33:14 TiagoTiago: how the hell would we know? Oct 27 15:33:26 ok, "lost" Oct 27 15:33:58 I dunno, i thought this type of thing leaked to the public, at least the type of public that frequents this channel Oct 27 15:34:12 oh, wait,hm, i think loose was correct Oct 27 15:34:15 I am on the loose now Oct 27 15:34:16 this channel is really horribly void of any NDA discussions Oct 27 15:34:17 :P Oct 27 15:34:53 Stskeeps: err? please rephrase Oct 27 15:34:58 * javispedro is going to violate a hundred NDAs by saying the following: Oct 27 15:34:59 42 Oct 27 15:35:11 So I got my nokia n900 today, now where do I insert the sim card XD? Oct 27 15:35:18 i'm not sure now, lol, somtimes little details of english grammar and stuff get mixed up in my head Oct 27 15:35:36 no, goddammit Oct 27 15:35:38 under the battery there is a metal thing you slide and flip open Oct 27 15:35:40 loose is not right there Oct 27 15:35:40 DocScrutinizer: as in, people never (or rarely) leak anything here Oct 27 15:36:01 hmm, so who's to blame? Oct 27 15:36:18 i didn't meant they leak it here, but that the leaks eventually reach people that come here Oct 27 15:36:35 TiagoTiago: I guess I'll setup wlan first Oct 27 15:36:49 suit yourself :) Oct 27 15:36:58 TiagoTiago: and most people treat them as unsubstantiated leaks, and perhaps due to their NDA's decide not to spread them Oct 27 15:37:22 if not unsubstantiated, then rumours with no official backing Oct 27 15:37:24 menwhile, check the manual just in case you guess how to do it slightly wrong and bend somthing or break a nail or whatever Oct 27 15:38:15 how many people have to have heard the rumour before people here feel confortable talking about it? Oct 27 15:38:37 how to get kernel-power back after upgrade to PR1.3? Oct 27 15:39:04 KaffeeJunky123: willkommen in der welt der micro computer! Oct 27 15:39:30 chem|st: Danke ^^ Oct 27 15:39:45 * javispedro sighs Oct 27 15:39:47 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.7/qml-intro.html Oct 27 15:39:54 such nice EMPTY documentation. Oct 27 15:39:58 steinex - reinstall it Oct 27 15:40:05 steinex: titans is a downgrade at the moment... apart of ipv6 is there anything special in titans? Oct 27 15:40:13 steinex: I think I told you yesterday: you'll have to wait for a matching ipdate of powerkernel Oct 27 15:40:30 "The basic syntax of an element is: . We can implement this Rectangle this way: ." Oct 27 15:40:57 TiagoTiago: I personally don't trust any of these assholes without an official source backing them up ;-) Oct 27 15:41:00 chem|st: mobilehotspot - wifi tethering Oct 27 15:41:06 DocScrutinizer: nope, that wasnt me :) Oct 27 15:41:16 lol Oct 27 15:41:20 TiagoTiago: it doesn't sound plausible to me that nokia sold them at a loss, given that n900 was just as expensive as any other comparable cellphone Oct 27 15:41:30 DocScrutinizer: but it would work? Oct 27 15:41:44 what? waiting? Oct 27 15:41:46 (but I've got a background in Wikipedia stuff) Oct 27 15:41:56 depends Oct 27 15:41:57 Is there a list of changes to the Maemo kernel available somewhere? Oct 27 15:41:58 {citation needed} Oct 27 15:42:10 KaffeeJunky123: before you setup anything but wifi make sure to upgrade to latest firmware (some programs have conflicting dependencies to the upgrade from yesterday) Oct 27 15:42:28 I've read a few times that Nokia didn't put so much effort on the N900 as they were expected to because they sold it at a loss and didn't expect it to be such a success Oct 27 15:42:33 javispedro: brilliant Oct 27 15:43:01 steinex: I have only one aditional wifi device and thats prepared for ad-hoc... Oct 27 15:43:02 TiagoTiago: and I'd question their sources and check if the articles are referring to each other Oct 27 15:43:10 s/aditional/additional/ Oct 27 15:43:11 chem|st meant: steinex: I have only one additional wifi device and thats prepared for ad-hoc... Oct 27 15:43:48 oh youve got the sed bot? Oct 27 15:43:55 i see Oct 27 15:43:57 who's is it Oct 27 15:43:59 TiagoTiago: sold a $600 device at a loss?????????????' Oct 27 15:44:04 ~sed Oct 27 15:44:04 methinks sed is the GNU Stream Editor. URL: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/ MANPAGE:http://www.gnu.org/software/sed/manual/ Oct 27 15:44:11 once upon a time Skype did sed too Oct 27 15:44:16 chem|st: it's a used device, maybe it's better to reinstall maemo completly Oct 27 15:44:29 yeah, because the hardware they put in it was too expensive already, mostly meant just for testing and stuff Oct 27 15:44:33 ~tell chem|st about query Oct 27 15:44:34 KaffeeJunky123: yeah maybe you need Oct 27 15:44:41 expensive... hardware??? Oct 27 15:44:41 chem|st: I found that midnight commander is installed, no Idea what else could be installed Oct 27 15:44:43 ~tell mc_teo` about query Oct 27 15:44:55 ~tell KaffeeJunky123 about flashing Oct 27 15:45:00 TiagoTiago: do you know how much Aava device is sold for at the moment? Oct 27 15:45:03 Could someone using the stock kernel do an uname -a for me Oct 27 15:45:07 no idea Oct 27 15:45:08 ~tell infobot about infobot Oct 27 15:45:10 chem|st: and there are onl 1.6gb left for applications, so either its a strange partition setup or there are loads of programms installed Oct 27 15:45:14 s/sed/heh/; s/other/stuff Oct 27 15:45:23 chem|st: thansk for that info page Oct 27 15:45:43 "docscrutinizer wants you to know: talk dirty to me!" Oct 27 15:45:48 lolol Oct 27 15:46:18 lol Oct 27 15:46:37 hm I wonder if this works Oct 27 15:46:38 ~the answer to life, the universe and everything Oct 27 15:46:43 TiagoTiago: "At €1900 (roughly $2393) per unit, the dev handset isn't exactly cheap..." Oct 27 15:46:57 where's my 42? Oct 27 15:47:08 where's my free aava device? Oct 27 15:47:15 I could make with some x86. Oct 27 15:47:29 ~tell mc_teo` about the answer to life, the universe and everything Oct 27 15:47:52 ~tell mc_teo` about 42 Oct 27 15:48:22 ~42 Oct 27 15:48:22 i guess 42 is the answer to life the universe and everything, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_answer_to_life,_the_universe,_and_everything Oct 27 15:48:55 that is also the number of minutes a trip on a gravity train from anywhere to anywhere (on Earth) would take Oct 27 15:50:52 ~lol Oct 27 15:50:52 somebody said lol was stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead. Oct 27 15:51:02 heh Oct 27 15:51:17 are you done with the bot now? Oct 27 15:51:21 again Oct 27 15:51:32 ~tell mc_teo` about query Oct 27 15:51:40 i am Oct 27 15:51:49 just it was funny Oct 27 15:52:00 ~alot Oct 27 15:52:01 well, alot is raping the English language, or http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html Oct 27 15:52:36 WTF? Oct 27 15:53:03 ~can you solve my problem about .flv files not showing up in my media player? Oct 27 15:53:12 hehe Oct 27 15:53:25 srsly Oct 27 15:53:46 mc_teo`: stop that BS! Oct 27 15:53:54 what bs? Oct 27 15:54:08 in the query window? or here? Oct 27 15:54:15 HERE Oct 27 15:54:27 i asked two things Oct 27 15:54:35 Does anyone else got green vignetting with the face camera? Oct 27 15:54:43 sigh, you quiet the person, not the bot Oct 27 15:54:48 and probably in query as well, as you obviously got NFC Oct 27 15:55:16 sorry for thinking you had a sense of humour Oct 27 15:55:39 mc_teo`: /join ##humour Oct 27 15:55:57 calm down kids :P Oct 27 15:56:43 rage quit tiem Oct 27 15:56:45 * MohammadAG51 wants to port 2.6.35 to maemo 5 Oct 27 15:56:55 MohammadAG51, that'd be nice. Oct 27 15:57:32 if bme dies, we rip the meego one Oct 27 15:57:46 if mce dies, we... panic and rewrite an open source one Oct 27 15:57:52 hehe Oct 27 15:58:27 MohammadAG51: is there explenations what they are on maemo wiki ? those names continue to confuse me everytime Oct 27 15:58:31 "We're open sourcing DSME!" Oct 27 15:58:36 MohammadAG51: but the dsme ... Oct 27 15:58:38 and if 2.6.35 fairs well, we have vsync Oct 27 15:58:41 GAN900: they sort of did Oct 27 15:58:46 dsme? Oct 27 15:58:54 could you start rewriting mce foss anyway, please. Friggin piece o' sh... Oct 27 15:58:56 MohammadAG51: vsync is not a kernel-only thing Oct 27 15:58:57 pull the plug Oct 27 15:59:04 dsme is open source Oct 27 15:59:08 javispedro, driver Oct 27 15:59:08 i mean, old version Oct 27 15:59:12 latest version isn't Oct 27 15:59:20 jacekowski: ah, the one for meego? Oct 27 15:59:25 javispedro, meego has vsync, not exactly stable, but still Oct 27 15:59:26 but it's compatible Oct 27 15:59:27 ish Oct 27 15:59:34 dsme == vsync? Oct 27 15:59:39 MohammadAG51: nope. Nokia would have fixed it if it was so simple, it's not like they haven't upgrded the SGX driver in every PR release so far Oct 27 15:59:43 * MohammadAG51 facepalms Oct 27 16:00:00 javispedro, it needs a new kernel, and a new driver Oct 27 16:00:02 MohammadAG51: it requires changes in the entire pipeline, from the kernel right down to individual apps Oct 27 16:00:18 apps/toolkits, ofc. Oct 27 16:00:33 wait, so why does libhildon work better on a pc? Oct 27 16:00:34 * DocScrutinizer burps Oct 27 16:00:41 lol Oct 27 16:00:53 MohammadAG51: it works better on a PC? Oct 27 16:01:00 a lot less tearing on my pc, and the SDK isn't graphically accelerated Oct 27 16:01:23 I have a lot of tearing on mine, and it is graphically accelerated. Oct 27 16:01:23 even my old laptop, which was 1.7GHz (clocked at 600MHz) Oct 27 16:01:25 perhaps the graphical acceeration is what is causing the tearing? Oct 27 16:01:38 javispedro, the sdk isn't accelerated Oct 27 16:01:51 MohammadAG51: mine is. http://depot.javispedro.com/vmgl/ Oct 27 16:01:56 TiagoTiago, yeah sure, install Mer and find out Oct 27 16:02:16 isn't that a whole different thing? Oct 27 16:02:26 so, ovi backups for the n900 dont restore application lists ? Oct 27 16:02:49 caotic: should Oct 27 16:02:53 javispedro, oh, nice Oct 27 16:02:55 err ovi?? Oct 27 16:02:57 brb, i'll see if lunch is ready Oct 27 16:03:07 sivang, except they gutted it first Oct 27 16:03:19 moved all of the relevant stuff to MCE. Oct 27 16:03:31 DocScrutinizer: ovi suite as well than pc suite ? Oct 27 16:03:39 not yet :/ Oct 27 16:03:46 but soon :) Oct 27 16:04:31 just posted a question/some thoughts about LUKS on N900: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=853744 perhaps some of you smart peeps over here would also like to chirp in Oct 27 16:04:40 my old workstation was so underpowered that not having acceleration made it unusable ,P Oct 27 16:05:05 bbl Oct 27 16:05:37 I just updated the firmware on my n900, and after going to the hole process ( that includes a restore) I dont have my applications installed, only contacts, pictures, and standar phone settings, I didnt made an internal (n900) backup since I thought the ovi suite will back up everything, (ovi suite != pc suite) Oct 27 16:05:38 GAN900: hmm, so they took out the good parts to still keep them concealed? Oct 27 16:05:54 GAN900: was that what you were implying with 'gutted' Oct 27 16:06:07 removing the gut, though makes sense :) Oct 27 16:06:45 gutted = eviscerated Oct 27 16:06:50 also ovi suite doesnt seem to have sms sincronization Oct 27 16:06:59 I am scared of what I may have done :( Oct 27 16:07:41 also Im accounts seems lost Oct 27 16:08:05 :( Oct 27 16:09:39 The stuff sayiung what type of backup keeps what data safe is not very good, specially with the N900 :( Oct 27 16:09:41 what is ovi suite? Oct 27 16:09:50 lunch's ready, brb Oct 27 16:10:10 its the new pc suite Oct 27 16:10:15 alright, i'm gone Oct 27 16:10:32 caotic, if you backed up im accounts, they happen to magically reappear as soon as you sintall the protocol plugins gain Oct 27 16:10:39 they did for me at least :) Oct 27 16:11:41 DocScrutinizer: ovi suite the new pc suite, (actually pc suite didnt let me apply the firmware upgrade with pc suite) Oct 27 16:12:12 err: pc suite told me to upgrade to ovi suite Oct 27 16:12:18 to apply the upgrade Oct 27 16:12:34 hmm, I heard this suite needs stuff from Redmond, so never touched it Oct 27 16:13:37 what's redmond? Oct 27 16:14:24 DocScrutinizer: yeah, well I didnt wanted to take risks with user error while upgrading my firmware Oct 27 16:14:46 DocScrutinizer: perhaps the other way was safer Oct 27 16:14:51 Mece: microsoft Oct 27 16:15:35 Am I the only one really happy about http://bugs.maemo.org/7107 Oct 27 16:15:36 ? Oct 27 16:15:57 bug 7107 Oct 27 16:15:58 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7107 Add http://bugs.maemo.org/[bug-id] redirection Oct 27 16:16:25 obviously not even povbot cares :-P Oct 27 16:16:42 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7107 Oct 27 16:16:43 Bug 7107: Add http://bugs.maemo.org/[bug-id] redirection Oct 27 16:16:52 do those aliases work now? Oct 27 16:16:53 http://bugs.maemo.org/7107 Oct 27 16:17:32 well, nice to have Oct 27 16:18:07 so, who wants to patch supybot's Bugzilla plugin to know about shortened urls? Oct 27 16:18:19 hehehe Oct 27 16:18:33 hrm Oct 27 16:18:45 because the only config option for that is "url", and it's already set to "https://bugs.maemo.org/" Oct 27 16:18:46 mgedmin, Where's the source? Oct 27 16:18:48 gah, i hate my router doesn't allow static IPs and fucks up DNS lookup :( Oct 27 16:18:54 google knows, I forgot Oct 27 16:19:10 bzr://bzr.everythingsolved.com/supybot/Bugzilla/ Oct 27 16:19:13 https://bugs.maemo.org/7107 Oct 27 16:19:24 do I dare run 'bzr update' there? Oct 27 16:20:01 bug 7107 Oct 27 16:20:06 bug #7107 Oct 27 16:20:40 sivang, What did you break? :) Oct 27 16:21:00 sivang: used up, guard time needs to expire Oct 27 16:21:01 it probably ignored a dupe Oct 27 16:21:06 bug 1 Oct 27 16:21:07 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it Oct 27 16:21:10 etc Oct 27 16:21:15 bug 1 Oct 27 16:21:19 QED Oct 27 16:21:25 indeed Oct 27 16:22:32 ~botsnack Oct 27 16:22:32 aw, gee, DocScrutinizer Oct 27 16:23:18 mgedmin, "Service Temporarily Unavailable" Oct 27 16:26:28 ~botsnack Oct 27 16:26:29 sivang: thanks Oct 27 16:27:03 it is a female right? Oct 27 16:27:09 ~botsnack Oct 27 16:27:09 sivang: aw, gee Oct 27 16:27:15 ;) Oct 27 16:29:56 hi :) Oct 27 16:30:36 sivang: yes, usually she's female (~attack), but sometimes seems to forget (~rape) Oct 27 16:31:14 hi Oct 27 16:32:33 does anyone have an idea how i could send an sms via shell on maemo? Oct 27 16:32:50 McFlurrey, I'm sure the answer to that question is yes. Oct 27 16:33:02 (sorry not to be more helpful) Oct 27 16:33:11 i guess ;) Oct 27 16:33:38 but id be verrry happy if that someone who has that idea could tell me how to do it :P Oct 27 16:33:54 McFlurrey, slightly less unhelpfully: you should be able to do it over dbus Oct 27 16:34:31 http://tpsession.garage.maemo.org/MaemoTelepathy.html Oct 27 16:34:38 http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control Oct 27 16:35:26 hmmmm thanks Oct 27 16:36:08 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=438487&postcount=14 Oct 27 16:36:58 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=444572&postcount=19 <- Python code Oct 27 16:37:06 ugh .. very hackish x/ Oct 27 16:37:10 but thanks ! Oct 27 16:37:49 http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS Oct 27 16:37:54 McFlurrey: hacks is what we live for :) Oct 27 16:38:05 * SpeedEvil lives for bacon. Oct 27 16:38:09 BACON! Oct 27 16:38:25 Especially with fried apples. Oct 27 16:38:36 toastt Oct 27 16:39:52 sick :D thx. thats more usefull for me Oct 27 16:39:54 bug 1 Oct 27 16:39:55 *cuddle* Oct 27 16:39:55 MohammadAG51: ping Oct 27 16:40:06 oh no please don't cache Oct 27 16:40:07 bug 2 Oct 27 16:40:10 pong Oct 27 16:40:23 is the global bin from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php for europeens? Oct 27 16:40:33 mgedmin: you killed it!!!11!! Oct 27 16:40:43 NonExistentRegistryEntry: short_url is not a valid entry in supybot.plugins.Bugzilla.bugzillas.bmo Oct 27 16:40:59 how do I bloody declare available config options for bloody supybot plugins? Oct 27 16:41:05 the 'url' was not declared anywhere in the source Oct 27 16:41:47 oh, it was, just not in config.py Oct 27 16:42:35 hey Oct 27 16:42:45 anyone do dual boot yet? Oct 27 16:43:56 * MohammadAG51 sighs at overhyped dualboot Oct 27 16:44:20 * SpeedEvil wants dualboot. Oct 27 16:44:32 wtf would anyone dual boot ?? A vm I might understand... Oct 27 16:44:33 I want green slip-on ones, made of rubber, size 10.5UK Oct 27 16:44:48 My existing pair split. :/ Oct 27 16:45:41 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dunlop-Unisex-Gardening-Clog-Wellington-Shoes-UK-3-11-/250654806463?pt=UK_Clothing_Menswear_MensShoes_GL&var=&hash=item800f0a4f62 _much_ more useful than a VM. Oct 27 16:45:53 MohammadAG51: can't you just install a bootloader and boot stuff? Oct 27 16:46:14 KaffeeJunky123, yes, but a small 1.3 kexec patch to the kernel was overhyped Oct 27 16:46:24 people think it's a new hidden magical bootloader Oct 27 16:46:44 * DocScrutinizer wants snowboot Oct 27 16:46:57 bug 1 Oct 27 16:46:58 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/1 test - ignore it Oct 27 16:46:59 * MohammadAG51 wants to make a lite, no-X OS for recovery purposes only Oct 27 16:47:00 yay Oct 27 16:47:05 * mgedmin hates supybot Oct 27 16:47:09 cool Oct 27 16:47:09 ok Oct 27 16:47:21 err Oct 27 16:47:27 http://bugs.maemo.org/2 Oct 27 16:47:29 https://bugs.maemo.org/7107 Oct 27 16:47:35 meh, nvm Oct 27 16:47:36 MohammadAG51: how about not starting X, you just have to edit some config files Oct 27 16:47:51 MohammadAG51: or boot scripts Oct 27 16:47:55 KaffeeJunky123, not useful as a recovery system Oct 27 16:48:19 ideally, the recovery OS would allow ssh over usb, and would have a working busybox Oct 27 16:48:24 or a bash shell Oct 27 16:48:58 ssh over usb or any openned wifi Oct 27 16:49:01 dneary: valuable resources you pasted here Oct 27 16:49:10 sivang, Thanks! Oct 27 16:49:16 dneary: worth a couple of good expansive beers Oct 27 16:49:17 :) Oct 27 16:49:18 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd Oct 27 16:49:18 There's a lot of useful information in the wiki ;) Oct 27 16:49:29 yes, there is , I like the Mameo wiki Oct 27 16:49:36 DocScrutinizer, it's meh Oct 27 16:49:43 who did the development guide btw? Oct 27 16:49:45 yes, but it's a start Oct 27 16:49:46 It could be better organised, but as wikis go, it ain't bad Oct 27 16:49:48 kb doesn't work properly Oct 27 16:49:56 source is shit to get Oct 27 16:50:00 sivang, Nokia Oct 27 16:50:05 Mostly Jarmo & his team Oct 27 16:50:11 sivang, Why? Oct 27 16:50:24 DocScrutinizer, you can't type numbers Oct 27 16:50:25 dneary: we need them to go over to wiki.meego.com :) Oct 27 16:50:28 They should make a postapocaliptic movie were a guy has a refurbished N900 wrist mounted and a small army of robots Oct 27 16:50:32 dneary: do the same Oct 27 16:50:43 sivang, That was migrated from a LaTeX source Oct 27 16:50:57 DocScrutinizer, and you need to have a pc Oct 27 16:50:59 dneary: I see Oct 27 16:51:04 sivang, The Nokia documentation team unfortunately never engaged with me aout using the wiki Oct 27 16:51:06 MohammadAG51: I know Oct 27 16:51:19 dneary: for meego you mean? Oct 27 16:52:09 you guys notice anything better on 1.3 Oct 27 16:52:19 vnepo, well seems to be a bit more responsive Oct 27 16:52:23 dneary: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide -> migrated from latex? Oct 27 16:52:40 MohammadAG51, we need a better keymap built into the kernel... that can handle all the keys properly Oct 27 16:52:46 one thing that is clearly better with pr1.3 is there is no more waiting for pr1.3 Oct 27 16:52:47 anyway Oct 27 16:52:55 I've left, cheers all Oct 27 16:53:05 hehe Oct 27 16:53:37 ruskie, i need a better meego.gitorious.org Oct 27 16:54:04 I've some questions about flashing an n900, what is the eMMc images and what is the FIASCO image? Oct 27 16:54:11 Yes Oct 27 16:54:22 Should I first flash the PR1.3 thing and the eMMc directly afterwards? Oct 27 16:54:31 sivang, Almost everything under /Documentation was migrated from latex Oct 27 16:54:32 are there any more recent demos for meego for phones? Oct 27 16:54:55 sivang, Jarmo insisted that high quality print documentation was a requirement. I disagreed with him :) Oct 27 16:56:02 ... Oct 27 16:56:08 Print documentation. Oct 27 16:56:24 You mean like written on parchment, or whatever they used to do in prehistory? Oct 27 16:56:28 How can you grep that? Oct 27 16:58:28 https://bugs.maemo.org/1 Oct 27 16:58:29 Bug 1: test - ignore it Oct 27 16:58:31 yay! Oct 27 16:58:47 mgedmin++ Oct 27 16:59:08 is it possible to fool an application into portrait ? Oct 27 16:59:26 it's a pre application actually, running through preenv Oct 27 17:00:08 gah I see meego still hase the 'droid like UX... guess I'll stick to m5 Oct 27 17:00:28 you don't like meego? Oct 27 17:00:45 the ux no Oct 27 17:00:55 yea Oct 27 17:00:56 it's a ripoff of the android one Oct 27 17:01:03 which I don't like as well Oct 27 17:01:11 I didn't get the n900 to be a fancy smartphone... Oct 27 17:01:19 for me it's primary role is a computer Oct 27 17:01:31 a phone ux does not lend itself to that Oct 27 17:01:53 yea i see what you mean Oct 27 17:02:47 don't get me wrong... for someone like my mom meego would be great... or for some of the ppl I know... Oct 27 17:03:02 but hopefully there'll be alternatives Oct 27 17:03:25 yea i know i like maemo but you can theme meego from the screenshots i saw so it should be ok Oct 27 17:05:02 sivang, yes. Oct 27 17:05:29 sivang, they moved all of the useful code to mce, which basically made opening dsme pointless. Oct 27 17:05:35 vnepo, theming will not change the feel Oct 27 17:06:23 a full replacement of the WM on the other hand would... but still the apps would behave the same Oct 27 17:06:42 yea well its ok Oct 27 17:13:11 Android PlayStation phone Oct 27 17:13:18 How depressing Oct 27 17:16:10 GAN900, seriously? Oct 27 17:16:33 android? Oct 27 17:16:36 playstation? Oct 27 17:16:37 LOL Oct 27 17:16:38 i saw that lol Oct 27 17:16:54 engadget Oct 27 17:19:49 ruskie, yes. Oct 27 17:22:58 night chaps Oct 27 17:26:12 hmmm QT creator no-longer connects to my n900 after flashing............ Oct 27 17:26:23 (SSH + Madde installed) Oct 27 17:26:43 static IP? Oct 27 17:26:52 and use gitorious! :P Oct 27 17:26:53 same ip as b4 Oct 27 17:27:10 when they allow me to upload after creating the project i will! Oct 27 17:28:40 hmm? Oct 27 17:29:20 Noobmonk3y: because after reflash, it forgot your SSH key, maybe Oct 27 17:31:43 I'm looking for documentation describing the functionality of the dual-boot feature in PR1.3, since I'm keen to look at some Meego dev builds. Alas, I am not having any luck finding it. Oct 27 17:33:08 orospakr: maybe the guys at #meego may be of better help Oct 27 17:33:18 fair enough. :) Oct 27 17:33:26 orospakr: there is no dualboot in pr1.3 Oct 27 17:33:26 orospakr: also look at http://thehandheldblog.com/2010/10/27/demo-the-n900-dual-booting-maemo-meego/ Oct 27 17:33:35 orospakr: it's just kexec support Oct 27 17:33:44 orospakr: this stuff is in no way related to PR 1.3 afaik btw Oct 27 17:34:32 ahh, I see. Oct 27 17:35:52 dual boot prototype instructions: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/U-Boot_from_scratch Oct 27 17:35:59 Venemo: i reset the developer password Oct 27 17:36:19 Noobmonk3y: did you also set up USB networking both on your PC and your N900? Oct 27 17:36:28 \o Noobmonk3y Oct 27 17:36:28 but surely it would give me a user or password error? Oct 27 17:36:32 venemo, using wifi Oct 27 17:36:36 hey lcuky Oct 27 17:37:10 hi Oct 27 17:37:48 Does anyone have managed to get PyQt4.QtMedia. Oct 27 17:39:06 sorry, to play sound? QAudioDeviceInfo.availableDevices(`output') is empty and i've seen a bug ticket about it. Oct 27 17:41:02 (it seems they could make it work from c++, is it a well known bindings' issue or am i missing something?) Oct 27 17:41:09 Noobmonk3y: hm, I dunno then Oct 27 17:41:28 Noobmonk3y: is SSH installed on the device correctly? Oct 27 17:43:05 lcuk: Do you still need to flash custom kernel in PR1.3? Oct 27 17:43:38 Noobmonk3y, and what error does it give you now? Oct 27 17:45:52 sry back Oct 27 17:46:00 * DocScrutinizer aims MTHELs at creator of PR1.3-dualboot nonsense Oct 27 17:46:30 Venemo: hmmmm how do i check it is installed correctly, rather then just installed? (I did do an apt-get install (ssh and madde) --reinstall) Oct 27 17:46:58 Noobmonk3y: fire up PuTTY and ssh in ? Oct 27 17:47:10 mgedmin: Device configuration test failed: Oct 27 17:47:10 Could not connect to host. Oct 27 17:47:34 try PuTTY, as DocScrutinizer suggested Oct 27 17:47:34 aghhhhhhhh Oct 27 17:47:40 winscp cant connect as developer Oct 27 17:47:42 DocScrutinizer, MeeGo blog :P Oct 27 17:47:46 hmm, can i recreate the developer user? Oct 27 17:50:44 Does update by Ovi Suite work as flasing the device? Oct 27 17:50:59 Noobmonk3y, did you install MADDE on the device? Oct 27 17:51:36 tis still on there Oct 27 17:51:40 and i --reinstalled it Oct 27 17:51:56 hmm Oct 27 17:52:21 Noobmonk3y: you need to know 1) which user on your originating PC is trying to connect to N900 2) by using which user name for N900 if any different 3) what's the sshkey used - then create a user on N900 according to the username used on PC for the ssh session, and copy over pubkey from PC to N900 as usual Oct 27 17:52:48 DocScrutinizer, I wonder if the /home/developer directory is there, but no actual user Oct 27 17:53:01 1) yes, 2) yes, 3) no ssh (doesnt work on qtcreator in this way, tis documented) Oct 27 17:53:59 will uninstall madde, and reinstall Oct 27 17:54:08 MohammadAG: I got NFC what this whole MADDE thing looks like, and whether it logs in to N900 by ssh user@n900 or root@n900 or developer@n900 or yourAccountName@n900 Oct 27 17:54:33 it creates a new user Oct 27 17:54:36 DocScrutinizer: developer@n900 Oct 27 17:54:43 in my case Oct 27 17:54:47 so go ahead do that Oct 27 17:54:53 trying but it aint working Oct 27 17:54:55 called developer, then it scps over a deb, then installs that deb into /usr/local/bin Oct 27 17:54:56 hence my last question Oct 27 17:55:01 hmm, can i recreate the developer user? Oct 27 17:55:04 ^^ Oct 27 17:55:08 the create /home/developer/.ssh Oct 27 17:55:08 yes, useradd Oct 27 17:55:13 thanks Mo Oct 27 17:55:21 DocScrutinizer, chances are, the user isn't there, only the homedir Oct 27 17:55:24 and move your sshkey to authorized_keys there Oct 27 17:55:34 ok, well that is already created Oct 27 17:55:35 bah Oct 27 17:55:38 and still not using keys Oct 27 17:55:41 using a password DocScrutinizer Oct 27 17:55:54 hmm, now with communication error and no network connections after PR13 update :/ Oct 27 17:56:17 Noobmonk3y, Oct 27 17:56:25 uninstall mad-developer Oct 27 17:56:33 doing it now :p Oct 27 17:56:38 userdel developer Oct 27 17:56:42 rm -rf /home/developer Oct 27 17:56:53 then reinstall it, and start from there Oct 27 17:56:57 thanks Mo :) Oct 27 17:57:43 test on my device: Oct 27 17:57:44 Device configuration test failed: Oct 27 17:57:44 Could not connect to host. Oct 27 17:58:20 Noobmonk3y: anyway if you're using password then you might want to do >>root; passwd developer<< Oct 27 17:58:32 DocScrutinizer: i did ;) Oct 27 17:58:33 hehehe Oct 27 17:58:38 thankyou for trying though :) Oct 27 17:59:12 try connecting to developer@n900 ! Oct 27 17:59:22 DocScrutinizer: i am ;) Oct 27 18:00:08 Device configuration successful. Oct 27 18:00:08 Hardware architecture: armv7l Oct 27 18:00:13 lol Oct 27 18:00:15 fixed it, ha! Oct 27 18:03:01 thankyou DocScrutinizer / MohammadAG all working now :) Oct 27 18:03:30 \o/ Oct 27 18:04:18 * DocScrutinizer stops trying to create a syslog line for >ssh idiot@n900< Oct 27 18:04:58 lol Oct 27 18:06:28 GAN900 & timeless: you guys tried firesheep on osx? Oct 27 18:08:25 gaddamn kde! Oct 27 18:08:26 grr Oct 27 18:08:37 * mece is done. Installing gnome distro. Oct 27 18:08:49 gnome ftw Oct 27 18:08:53 yep. Oct 27 18:09:32 I had such an ancient distro that I needed an upgrade. people kept saying yay kde is super. Oct 27 18:09:54 but it went from everything just works to nothing just works. Oct 27 18:11:14 crashanddie, no. Oct 27 18:17:28 MohammadAG xfce4 > gnome Oct 27 18:17:45 kde > xfce4+gnome Oct 27 18:17:55 anytgibd >kde Oct 27 18:17:59 anything* Oct 27 18:18:06 kde is such a mess Oct 27 18:18:17 let's leave it that it's a such mess Oct 27 18:18:43 Aero. \o/ Oct 27 18:18:51 * MohammadAG pukes Oct 27 18:18:54 seriously what people like about that bright shinny peice of ... Oct 27 18:18:59 all dependies Oct 27 18:19:12 you want a wallpaper - you need kde-libs Oct 27 18:19:20 kmail is the only functional not sucky GUI mailclient Oct 27 18:19:22 you want to open txt file - you need kde-lib Oct 27 18:19:38 you want to drink a glass of water you need kdelib Oct 27 18:19:56 BugBlue claws ? Oct 27 18:20:17 MohammadAG, show me your screenies Oct 27 18:21:13 FauxFaux and aero is like old websites, with a huge mass of unwanetd and not functional, useless pretty things ( i don'ty find anything pretty actually about all those round coners and transperenty) Oct 27 18:21:31 * ZogG is on the path of holywar Oct 27 18:21:35 Anyone know a guide to resize partitions (/home/user to precise) on N900? 2gb is not enough for preenv :| Oct 27 18:21:36 ZogG: threaded 'background' imap support? Oct 27 18:22:01 xfce ftw Oct 27 18:22:06 Aranel, ? Oct 27 18:22:19 xfce+rox-filer ran great on my old debian box Oct 27 18:22:23 Aranel just make folder and symlink it Oct 27 18:22:42 kerio i use xfce4 as it is Oct 27 18:22:57 it had a REALLY bad file browser at the time Oct 27 18:23:17 ZogG: but chmod +x is not working on MyDocs? It doesn't execute anything. Resizing /home/user to 4gb would be great. Oct 27 18:23:26 ZogG, http://i52.tinypic.com/2ury3jd.jpg :P Oct 27 18:23:50 kerio: rxvt... Oct 27 18:23:59 * MohammadAG would symlink datafiles to MyDocs Oct 27 18:24:06 keep the executable in /home/user Oct 27 18:24:21 hmmmmmmmmmmm qt layouts are a real pain in the ass! Oct 27 18:24:29 MohammadAG netbook? and why it's so default gnome? Oct 27 18:24:29 Aranel: MyDocs is vfat and does not know anything about attributes Oct 27 18:24:43 ZogG, no, i5 laptop Oct 27 18:24:49 all those temp values and all other stuff is not needed Oct 27 18:25:01 MohammadAG i5? damn - where do you get money man =) Oct 27 18:25:02 woooohooo, another "I am switching from n900 to android" post! Oct 27 18:25:11 :( Oct 27 18:25:15 MohammadAG anyway but it's too small on my home screen Oct 27 18:25:15 * Noobmonk3y has an i5 tablet pc infront of me atm lol - it aint that great Oct 27 18:25:31 i have due core laptop Oct 27 18:25:39 and Q6600 desctop Oct 27 18:25:42 desktopp Oct 27 18:25:45 DAMN Oct 27 18:25:46 nokia dun goofed Oct 27 18:25:48 desktop* Oct 27 18:25:51 :) Oct 27 18:25:52 dual Oct 27 18:25:57 kerio: no bacon in the update :( Oct 27 18:25:57 and i have arm phone btw =) Oct 27 18:26:07 an armphone Oct 27 18:26:17 ZogG, it was cheap, bought it from Jordan :P Oct 27 18:26:26 * RST38h feels like a grammar nazi tonight, for a change Oct 27 18:26:30 was even cheaper than all other lappies, which felt kinda weird Oct 27 18:27:44 RST38h i dyslectic and russian, so suck mine huge .... Oct 27 18:27:46 =* Oct 27 18:27:46 chem|st: looks like It doesn't allow me to execute binaries there too. Oct 27 18:28:09 MohammadAG hmm, maybe you buy me stuff Jordan Jordan??? Oct 27 18:28:14 ehhehehe Oct 27 18:28:30 Aranel than use SD card with ext2 Oct 27 18:28:48 MohammadAG: so you didn't repartition your device? Is it because it's not possible/no one knows to do that or another reason? Oct 27 18:29:07 ZogG: tried on my MMC card, didnt work too. Oct 27 18:29:08 Aranel, my /home is 3GBs Oct 27 18:29:17 RST38h is it really snowing now in mama russia? Oct 27 18:29:24 * MohammadAG used sed on the vanilla image Oct 27 18:29:25 MohammadAG: how did you that *-* Oct 27 18:29:28 Aranel did you formay it too ext2? Oct 27 18:29:39 ZogG: Nah. Raining here, in the Little Mordor Oct 27 18:29:46 sed -i s/2048/3072/g vanillaimage.bin Oct 27 18:29:53 RST38h there is snow in moscow Oct 27 18:29:56 MohammadAG: d'oh, reflashing :| I would prefer trying it without reflash first. Oct 27 18:30:00 ZogG: Not where I am Oct 27 18:30:12 There is green grass though Oct 27 18:30:32 * ZogG printed MohammadAG screenshot and put it on wall Oct 27 18:30:35 Aranel, cfdisk, I'm not an expert Oct 27 18:31:34 ZogG: dunno if it's ext or vfat, is it possible to check it? Oct 27 18:31:35 Aranel did you format sd card to ext2??????????? Oct 27 18:31:43 Aranel fdisk -l Oct 27 18:32:04 Aranel, do you have laptop with sd card reader? Oct 27 18:32:24 ZogG: ~sh: fdisk: not found , nope I don't have one. Oct 27 18:32:28 as in maemo there is cfdsk or how is it call and it's not that simple as fdisk Oct 27 18:33:40 how about "mount" Oct 27 18:33:59 Myrtti, right Oct 27 18:34:00 to state the obvious... Oct 27 18:34:03 MohammadAG: how about this: http://sumoudou.org/%E7%9B%B8%E6%92%B2%E5%A4%96%EF%BC%9ARepartition%20the%20Nokia%20N900.html Oct 27 18:34:27 if we were talking about checking the filesystem Oct 27 18:34:36 Aranel do not change your partition you end up bricking and flashing device Oct 27 18:34:40 MohammadAG: sorry for the messed up link, It has kinda weird japanese/chinese (i guess?) characters. Oct 27 18:34:43 if you don't know what you are doing Oct 27 18:35:22 Aranel just use mount command to check Oct 27 18:35:36 Aranel, sfdisk should also work, I use cfdisk since it has a UI (sorta) Oct 27 18:35:45 ZogG: :| I know that It's not a great idea to mess up with partition tables, but I don't have enough space to install new apps or pre games on it. MyDocs is sitting there with lots of empty space. Oct 27 18:36:20 Hi Oct 27 18:36:40 ZogG: here's my sfdisk -l http://pastebin.com/ix4YuNSC Oct 27 18:36:42 minimalism ftw, uninstall unused old ones... Oct 27 18:37:50 Aranel, /dev/mmcblk1p2 Oct 27 18:37:57 In fact my filesystem is acting weird, I don't see any errors on dmesg output, anyway according to Storage Usage I'm using 1.6 GB, but df -h says I have 100~ megabytes, I cannot free up space :| Oct 27 18:38:15 MWHAHAH Oct 27 18:38:16 ZogG: one of them is Android, other one is for general use. Oct 27 18:38:36 Aranel android one is ext2 i think Oct 27 18:39:00 Aranel pastebin mount Oct 27 18:39:34 ZogG: http://pastebin.com/aDrFxxJs Oct 27 18:40:10 Aranel, go to /media/mmc1 Oct 27 18:40:46 wb lcuky Oct 27 18:41:00 Aranel, mkdir /home/user/MyDocs/temp && cp /media/mmc1* /home/user/MyDocs/temp Oct 27 18:41:35 ZogG: I don't have anything valuable there. skipping this step? Oct 27 18:41:42 umount /media/mmc1 && mkfs.ext2 /dev/mmcblk1p1 Oct 27 18:42:04 Aranel photos are going there by default Oct 27 18:42:48 ZogG: I changed it lately and moved them to built-in memory. Oct 27 18:43:06 ok now doing the second step. Oct 27 18:43:07 Aranel umount /media/mmc1 && mkfs.ext2 /dev/mmcblk1p1 Oct 27 18:43:49 ZogG: umount: cannot umount /media/mmc1: Device or resource busy Oct 27 18:44:03 ZogG: oops. ok corrected =) Oct 27 18:44:37 Aranel you have it opened somewhere Oct 27 18:44:42 cd .. Oct 27 18:45:23 ZogG: done, looks like successful: http://pastebin.com/bvLGSr6V Oct 27 18:46:46 Aranel now mount it Oct 27 18:46:51 ZogG: off-topic question: does kernel-power work on PR1.3? I need it to forcefsck /home/ partition (and rootfs too if possible) Oct 27 18:47:06 Aranel, better you change the rules to automount it to /media/ Oct 27 18:47:25 Aranel never OC device =) Oct 27 18:47:27 ZogG: how can I mount/change the rules? Oct 27 18:47:31 Aranel: I bet yur missing-free-space problems are caused by fubar apps that don't adhere to ~optification Oct 27 18:47:54 ZogG: nope, I would never OC mine, I want it for its forcefsck feature which is not implemented by default. Oct 27 18:47:58 Aranel mount /dev/name-device /some/foler/to/mount/to Oct 27 18:48:36 DocScrutinizer fubar? Oct 27 18:48:41 Aranel: the question is "does PR1.3 run on power-kernel" Oct 27 18:48:43 ZogG: mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 failed: Invalid argument Oct 27 18:48:48 ~fubar Oct 27 18:48:49 fubar is F*cked Up Beyond Any Recognition, e.g. "This whole operation is fubar, soldier" (gay lisp included), or a bar addon like Titan Panel and Telo's InfoBar. and everything. Oct 27 18:50:01 Aranel: the answer probably is "running PR1.3 on a PR1.2 based power-kernel isn't going to end happy" Oct 27 18:50:03 DocScrutinizer: I got enough rootfs space (80 megabytes atm) because I symlinked microb, nokia-maps and locale folders, problem is, storage usage reports 1.6gb in use on /home/user but I only have 100~ free. Oct 27 18:50:10 Aranel mkdir /home/user/games && mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /home/user/games -t ext2 Oct 27 18:51:12 Aranel: then some of your apps didn't follow rules of ~optification Oct 27 18:51:25 ~optification Oct 27 18:51:26 it has been said that optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 Oct 27 18:51:57 DocScrutinizer: Isn't optification about creating symlinks on rootfs to /opt/ ? Oct 27 18:52:04 notice the "_and_MyDocs" part in first URL Oct 27 18:52:12 ZogG: done and now I can see it on File Manager ^^ Oct 27 18:52:22 ZogG: how can I make it auto-mount now? fstab? Oct 27 18:52:52 Aranel: yes, but also about creating symlinks to MyDocs for huge amounts of data, like textures/maps/other-random-non-ELF stuff Oct 27 18:54:28 DocScrutinizer: I understand your point, but If Storage Usage is not mistaken (It's possible ofc) I've removed kroll (about 190~) but I got only 100 megabytes free. 1.6gb is in use but I only got 100~ free on /home/ Oct 27 18:54:35 Aranel: nope, you have to edit initscripts and most likely will break your system on doing so Oct 27 18:55:06 for automount Oct 27 18:55:35 and there's still rumour about system parts breaking on missing VFAT partiton Oct 27 18:55:54 DocScrutinizer: hmm. what you do if you make your device unbootable? Possible to do something outside (like using livecds on broken ubuntu installations, maybe multibooting?) or you just flash it? Oct 27 18:55:54 Aranel just make small script to umount and re-mount it and put somewhere Oct 27 18:56:08 Aranel: no Oct 27 18:56:12 reflash Oct 27 18:56:15 DocScrutinizer meh he formated SD Oct 27 18:56:22 DocScrutinizer, don't scary him Oct 27 18:57:33 DocScrutinizer: :| I remember something named rescue-boot, doesn't it work if device is bricked? Oct 27 18:57:58 ZogG: If he's not yet scared by mere fact some silly packages ate 1.6GB of his /home, I guess I'll have a hard time to scare him at all Oct 27 18:58:01 * Aranel sorry If I'm asking TONS of questions, It's because I have tons of questions :| Oct 27 18:58:58 DocScrutinizer: only thing scares me is some packages ate 1.6gb of my /home but I have only 100megabytes free space. I wonder what happened to 300~ megabytes. Oct 27 18:59:30 rounding error and inodes Oct 27 18:59:33 maybe Oct 27 18:59:59 means I have to do fsck. since kernel-power is not working, I cannot. Oct 27 19:00:04 a 10 byte file nevertheless needs a full 512byte block plus directory entry Oct 27 19:00:30 why does maemo not ask for my root pw when I do sudo gainroot? Oct 27 19:01:06 KaffeeJunky123: because it's braindamaged. See http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools for a fix Oct 27 19:02:06 thanks a lot Oct 27 19:02:09 yw Oct 27 19:02:16 I don't like gaining root privileges without pw ^^ Oct 27 19:02:29 me neither :-D Oct 27 19:04:16 hi, I'm getting an icon on the system menu. It's an image of a paper with 1 & 0's on it. And there is a red slash through that Oct 27 19:04:22 can anyone tell me what that means? Oct 27 19:06:12 newbie007, that it doesn't have a better icon for that filetype? Oct 27 19:06:20 gnome <3 Oct 27 19:08:17 is there a way to remove an individual appointment from a repeating appointment in calendar? due to e.g. some kind of exception in lecture arrangements Oct 27 19:08:48 Anybody had problems with NFS mounts on N900? I remember I had the same problem ~a few month earlier, but don't remember the solution Oct 27 19:08:57 It's a system error message of some sort Oct 27 19:09:12 if I plug headphones into the n900 I get an icon of headphones Oct 27 19:09:31 in the same area I'm getting a message that something is off or disabled. but what? Oct 27 19:09:55 It looks like the icon indicates that "Binary" is turned off Oct 27 19:11:18 newbie007: means 'no SIM' Oct 27 19:12:43 SIM ? Oct 27 19:12:47 it's actually a SIM, no paper :-) Oct 27 19:13:13 DocScrutinizer: my phone card thing ? Oct 27 19:13:18 that sounds bad... Oct 27 19:13:23 you see cut corner on upper right ;-D Oct 27 19:13:39 yeap that's it, thank you Oct 27 19:16:26 PR1.3 changelog courtesy PaulFertser : https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=h-e-n;a=commitdiff;h=a2abd51199b9e61542a24ae9086ac1c6263106c4#patch9 Oct 27 19:16:29 that happens almost with every phone Oct 27 19:16:38 it's not unusual or unheard of Oct 27 19:16:50 Myrtti: what does? Oct 27 19:16:51 Kernel changelog only, referenced from git comparing to the previous version. Oct 27 19:17:06 (just diff for debian/changelog in fact) Oct 27 19:17:14 newbie007: that the sim card is dislodged, has some dust or just gets a slow kickstart Oct 27 19:17:19 getting a different boot up now.. asking for language Oct 27 19:17:32 Myrtti: I cleaned the contacts and rebooted Oct 27 19:17:40 looks good now Oct 27 19:17:42 newbie007: if the problem is persistant, then I'd be worried, perhaps get a new sim from the operator Oct 27 19:18:38 I've noticed that a lot of my linux problems (few and far between though they be) are typcially hardware related.. not saying linux is bad on hardware. I'm saying that when I do have a problem it's usually not the software Oct 27 19:19:02 Windows is good in hiding problems Oct 27 19:19:09 Myrtti: I think I'll stop using the phone in the shower so often Oct 27 19:19:21 then when the problems appear, then the situation is usually unrecoverable Oct 27 19:20:03 DocScrutinizer: added the link to Maemo_5/PR1.3, i hope that's enough for those interested in details. Oct 27 19:20:25 PaulFertser: thanks :-D Oct 27 19:22:02 sshing into the n900 is pretty comfortable Oct 27 19:24:13 KaffeeJunky123: try this link in your favourite browser :-D sftp://root@192.168.1.32/home/user/MyDocs/.documents (you might want to adjust the IP addr) Oct 27 19:24:30 do I see an IO patch in that kernel? Oct 27 19:24:47 block/cfq-iosched.c Oct 27 19:25:19 + * Fixes: NB#164090 - Rover is violating SD card specification victimizing Oct 27 19:25:20 + few (Sandisk) SD cards Oct 27 19:25:22 WTF? Oct 27 19:25:38 MohammadAG: that's not that Oct 27 19:25:55 MohammadAG: 'raping' is a better word Oct 27 19:26:04 DocScrutinizer: that one doesn't work ^^ Oct 27 19:26:05 MohammadAG: SD card specifications is more probably about omap_hsmmc.c changes Oct 27 19:26:05 actually it's not Oct 27 19:26:07 Fixes: NB#149752 - kernel oops after lots of IO Oct 27 19:26:40 DocScrutinizer: probably haven't installed sftp on this machine Oct 27 19:26:42 omfg, a bug! IN THE KERNEL! THIS CAN NOT BE! Oct 27 19:26:45 "Big SD cards (16GiB) are prohibited from switching voltage regulator to asleep because of high current consumption" Oct 27 19:27:02 PaulFertser, yes I know it's not that Oct 27 19:27:10 oh, nvm Oct 27 19:27:26 lol Stskeeps Oct 27 19:28:03 cya peeps, dinner time Oct 27 19:28:10 why is this a kernel bug :/ Oct 27 19:28:11 + * Fixes: NB#147449 - Joikuspot slows device down Oct 27 19:28:26 MohammadAG: i'm more puzzled about "Dual boot for MeeGo", i see no related changes in the patchset. Oct 27 19:28:34 kexec's there Oct 27 19:28:34 PaulFertser, kexec? Oct 27 19:28:49 MohammadAG: probably Stskeeps knows why we see only debian changelog without actual patches. Oct 27 19:29:02 * MohammadAG wonders if Stskeeps has all channels open in separate windows Oct 27 19:29:08 MohammadAG: irssi, baby Oct 27 19:29:14 MohammadAG: kexec seems to be enabled in the previous patchset as well, i see no related changes. Oct 27 19:29:56 irssi ♥ Oct 27 19:29:59 PaulFertser: there was a bug in ARMv7 .. sec Oct 27 19:30:05 + * Fixes: NB#170888 - Dual boot in kernel for enabling MeeGo Oct 27 19:30:37 Stskeeps: ah, so it's just about backporting some important low-level change, not about "enabling kexec". Oct 27 19:31:09 hmm Oct 27 19:31:12 kexec was =y all the time, but it wasnt working.. give me a minute Oct 27 19:31:13 patches to musb_core Oct 27 19:31:20 this is interesting... Oct 27 19:31:25 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/kexec#Building_and_installing_your_own_kernel Oct 27 19:31:26 duh!! Oct 27 19:31:53 Stskeeps, may I ask why the sources on meego.gitorious.org are as clear as fog? Oct 27 19:32:09 Stskeeps: ok, thanks, didn't thought of that possibility :) It's quite surprising (every time) to see nokia using that _ancient_ version as a base. Oct 27 19:32:20 PaulFertser: we're on .35 and loving it Oct 27 19:32:58 Stskeeps: i'm sure there're some downsides; that was the same with n810 :( Oct 27 19:33:40 s^was^is^ even :| Oct 27 19:33:53 n900 might be the first device that's well supported upstream Oct 27 19:33:55 Because n810 is still cool and still not really usable :| Oct 27 19:34:59 Stskeeps: well, can you recommend n910 users to switch to .35 now, is it actually "production-ready"? Oct 27 19:35:29 PaulFertser: if you want to run maemo, no, but we're increasingily supporting more and more Oct 27 19:35:59 Stskeeps: ok, i see, thanks for the info. Oct 27 19:36:01 Stskeeps, now, answer my question :P Oct 27 19:38:36 MohammadAG: the kernel? Oct 27 19:38:56 Stskeeps, initrd would be one, kernel would be another Oct 27 19:39:17 ok, the n900 kernel we have, it's constructed as a rpm package, cos it simply makes it easy to build and follow kernel builds Oct 27 19:39:34 kernel is upstream + patches, because we shouldn't have 'the meego kernel source tree' and divert from upstrema Oct 27 19:40:11 so, the patches should apply against the latest upstream? Oct 27 19:40:19 aka bleeding edge Oct 27 19:40:21 again 2.6.35 atm yes Oct 27 19:40:26 there's two tracks Oct 27 19:40:29 -dev and stable Oct 27 19:40:42 I'm thinking 2.6.35.7 Oct 27 19:41:08 Stskeeps, and the initrd? Oct 27 19:41:21 look at the .spec, it's obvious how it's put together.. Oct 27 19:44:30 Folks, they seem to be doing a strange trick in new kernel: once some userspace app writes anything that's not "0" to the "lock" sysfs node of the si4713 driver, changing FM transmitter power becomes impossible until after module reload. Oct 27 19:47:36 And it's "locked" on my device indeed. Oct 27 19:48:53 regulatory needs maybe Oct 27 19:48:56 if it's a problem, hack it Oct 27 19:48:58 Module reload helps :))) Oct 27 19:49:08 Stskeeps: i mean the trick seems to be really inconsistent. Oct 27 19:49:16 (probably just plain stupid even) Oct 27 19:51:41 probably really just meant to avoid accidental messing Oct 27 19:52:41 Some people do say that if you turn up power beyond the max in the datasheet, the frequency starts drifting after a few minutes :-) Oct 27 19:53:54 Some people (inside Nokia) should learn to fucking talk to their users explaining what and why's going on. Oct 27 19:53:58 hehe Oct 27 19:54:15 and again hehe Oct 27 19:54:32 PaulFertser: we discuss the kernel stuff in meego in the open and on mailing list Oct 27 19:54:37 maemo, well, dunno Oct 27 19:54:44 Stskeeps: that's very nice of you indeed. Oct 27 19:54:46 see backscoll, search for consumer Oct 27 19:55:11 Stskeeps: i really hope MeeGo will become the system you dreamed off. Oct 27 19:55:19 users = idiots, sorry but its usually true :P Oct 27 19:55:22 i hope so too - i mean, i am in charge of making it so Oct 27 19:55:43 PaulFertser: my new role is nokia n900 hardware adaptation maintainer in meego, so Oct 27 19:55:50 Stskeeps: i know you (and many other folks in the team) are well-intended. But nokia's behaviour is still offending me. Oct 27 19:56:34 is there a ole for Nokia FOSS hardware evangelist? Oct 27 19:56:43 role* Oct 27 19:57:07 Stskeeps: pr1.3 released but goddamn "cherry" is still there. That's what i can't really tolerate, uber-offensive. Oct 27 19:57:42 yeah Oct 27 19:57:44 frals, sadly, we're all users in a way Oct 27 19:57:45 know mega annoyance Oct 27 19:57:51 +n Oct 27 19:59:12 Asking for IMEA to download the firmware is also both offensive and meaningless (as everything is there in the repos anyway) at the same time! Oct 27 19:59:40 not really aiui Oct 27 20:00:09 Some of the repos aren't downloadable from a desktop PC btw :) Oct 27 20:00:22 PaulFertser: i'm happy to see the meego images not requiring that anymore Oct 27 20:00:28 ShadowJK, they are ;) Oct 27 20:00:39 With key from the device.. Oct 27 20:00:39 cough*/etc/apt/auth*cough Oct 27 20:01:16 Stskeeps: if i decide to not use Nokia devices because they keep offending me, i'd not have much choice to run those nice meego images on. :| Oct 27 20:01:40 PaulFertser: help the beagleboard effort :) Oct 27 20:02:21 that'd bring touchbook with it almost, i guess Oct 27 20:02:34 yeah Oct 27 20:03:39 Stskeeps: well, we'll never fully agree about these matters, we both know that. I do not feel like i can say anything new. I passed the link to the kernel changes to the guys, i think it's now obvious that one should update to the PR1.3 kernel. Oct 27 20:04:05 :nod: Oct 27 20:04:48 hmmmmmmmmmmm is there a way to wrap cells in a qt gridlayout? Oct 27 20:05:39 PaulFertser: the IMEI-for-firmware is a licensing pain-in-the-butt, not a preference Oct 27 20:06:11 achipa: how can it make sense when all the same components of the firmware are freely downloadable from the repository? Oct 27 20:06:45 PaulFertser: they aren't (as in not ALL components) Oct 27 20:06:49 MohammadAG: so I look forward for PR1.3 kernel plus sarahn's patches plus mine :-) Oct 27 20:06:58 and even if they were, that would be the error (sadly) Oct 27 20:07:10 achipa: then why not remove those misterious components from the image? What are they? Oct 27 20:07:33 achipa: Flash, Skype, driver blobs, that sort of stuff Oct 27 20:07:53 PaulFertser: ^^ Oct 27 20:07:59 im sure people wouldnt much appreciate software like ovi/skype getting removed just so the odd couple of people who get really irritated by the imei prompt could be happy Oct 27 20:08:34 achipa: those can be downloaded separately by the user if he wants shit in his device i guess. Oct 27 20:08:39 achipa flash - samsh, skype - pipe, blobs - pops, stuff - puff Oct 27 20:09:05 PaulFertser: no, they cannot. That's why we are pissing blood with !$%&@$^ Flash 10.1 Oct 27 20:09:18 PaulFertser: alas a few of thise are mandatory for a working device - e.g. bme Oct 27 20:09:18 achipa: and wifi driver firmware is redistributable anyway. Oct 27 20:09:25 DocScrutinizer51: isn't bme in the repos? Oct 27 20:09:54 dunno Oct 27 20:10:04 wouldn't think so Oct 27 20:10:04 Anybody can tell me where I can get libwmf0.2-7 package? It's in Nokia repository, but I need it in scratchbox Oct 27 20:10:15 PaulFertser: hey, I'm just saying that there is at least one component that is limited by some licensing idiocy and so most be tied to a device Oct 27 20:11:23 achipa: let it be downloaded automatically from the internet then. Oct 27 20:11:35 ah, its in -testing Oct 27 20:11:43 PaulFertser: that graphic driver blob? Oct 27 20:12:03 PaulFertser: end users supposed to run n900 in tty mode? Oct 27 20:12:09 achipa: or the devs could have spent 30 minutes (!) to make the script build two kind of images: redistributable and non-redistributable. Oct 27 20:12:15 Posts: 1,337 | Thanked: 3,128 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Jerusalem, PS/IL Oct 27 20:12:18 I'm 1337 :P Oct 27 20:12:55 PaulFertser, bme is in the repos, and the latest (MeeGo) one is redistributable Oct 27 20:13:15 PaulFertser: sadly, that doesn't work like that (again, nothing to do with technical stuff, pure procedural-legal drain bramagery) Oct 27 20:13:19 PaulFertser: sure things could 've done better. But imei is one of the minor itches Oct 27 20:13:30 valdyn: the graphic driver blob can be made independent of imea registration (if it's not already). Oct 27 20:13:55 achipa: sadly, i feel a personal offense when anyone's doing that to me. Oct 27 20:14:30 why personal? Oct 27 20:14:51 PaulFertser: I suggest you write a heartfelt letter to vendors providing driver blobs or components that require such licensing Oct 27 20:15:03 PaulFertser: (and in this case, it's not just Nokia) Oct 27 20:15:03 MohammadAG: i'm kinda solipsist, so i'm not assuming anyone else exists ;) Oct 27 20:15:37 * Arkenoi observed 1.3 incoming call screen glitch, well, compared to 1.2 it is non-issue, i surely can live with it Oct 27 20:15:38 achipa: it's nokia not negotiating with the vendors enough. I'm sure nokia could push them if it wanted. Oct 27 20:16:03 we have SGX redistributable, which is nice Oct 27 20:16:23 * MohammadAG wants rythmbox on the N900 Oct 27 20:16:24 PaulFertser: in the corporate world, that often tran$late$ to pu$h :) Oct 27 20:16:49 PaulFertser: we dont know if the "vendor" has the rights to "free" its stuff, most probably hes also using 3rd party restricted code... Oct 27 20:16:56 achipa: i guess it's rather about nokia's managers not caring much. Even one man can change a lot you know. Oct 27 20:17:06 Arkenoi, we're working on a proper community SSU, you can expect not to wait till it's fixed officially Oct 27 20:17:20 this time, it'll be proper Oct 27 20:17:32 PaulFertser: what hw bits are you missing redistributability for? (let's not talk open source, that's another big discussion) Oct 27 20:17:45 valdyn: it's not about freeing, it's just about sane requirements for distribution (and requesting IMEI is just stupid as it doesn't really work for the "intended" purpose). Oct 27 20:17:52 can I install cmake on the target device (not inside scratchbox) Oct 27 20:17:54 ? Oct 27 20:18:08 Stskeeps: i'm not sure, achipa's telling me that nokia has to ask me for imei because of some restrictions. Oct 27 20:18:25 PaulFertser: hw bits we're actively trying to get redistributable, at least Oct 27 20:18:51 Stskeeps: the point is, the firmware has components to which Nokia has only license to distribute linked to a particular device Oct 27 20:18:54 Stskeeps: thanks again for that :) Oct 27 20:19:10 achipa: but asking for imei doesn't link it anyhow. Oct 27 20:19:11 MohammadAG, will there be modest that starts directly in default inbox? ;-) Oct 27 20:19:12 PaulFertser: DSP codecs are on a liberal license too, it looks like Oct 27 20:19:25 Arkenoi, patches welcome :P Oct 27 20:19:28 achipa: it's just hipocrisy on the nokia's side. Oct 27 20:19:35 And that stinks! Oct 27 20:19:47 PaulFertser: hipocrisy how ? Oct 27 20:19:51 SSU modest already has 2 community patches from two bug reports Oct 27 20:20:03 how do you determine default inbox Oct 27 20:20:19 or how would you set it Oct 27 20:20:22 is it a server thing? Oct 27 20:20:38 achipa: asking for imei doesn't work. It doesn't tie the firmware to the device. That's just a (silly) way to restrict downloading from the nokia's site. I can publish my IMEI and whoever will be able to download the image. Oct 27 20:20:41 ShadowJK, manual setting would be ok Oct 27 20:21:27 PaulFertser: the point is severability - then it's not Nokia's problem - they can say they provided user of device X, whatever he did later, who cares Oct 27 20:22:31 PaulFertser: IMEI works exactly as intended - think about it Oct 27 20:22:44 achipa: that's what i call hypocrisy. It's not about doing anything properly but about playing a silly game: "-- you know this component can't be freely distrubuted. -- Oh, why, of course, we won't allow that". That's all dirty games and lies, don't you see that? Oct 27 20:23:13 PaulFertser: and what do you want ? That they not provide firmware images and require to go to flashing points ? Oct 27 20:23:26 because that's pretty much the alternative Oct 27 20:23:30 achipa: yes! Oct 27 20:23:34 achipa: that would be honest! Oct 27 20:23:56 Ha Oct 27 20:23:57 PaulFertser: ooookay... consult with other users before requesting this from Nokia Care... Oct 27 20:23:59 at the end of the day, "honesty" has to make way for usability. Oct 27 20:24:05 PaulFertser: when I played silly games with publishing black blobs on schematics, you were"mt that upset Oct 27 20:24:05 Can we stop having this particular argument? Oct 27 20:24:39 achipa: ROTFL, Nokia Care never cares :) That's part of the hypocrisy (remember "newspeak", eh?). Oct 27 20:24:42 can we stop the whole discussion now please? Oct 27 20:24:44 the n900 is a product, and from a business point of view your argument that nokia should make life insanely difficult for users who buy it just to satisfy your personal distaste of a little bit of hipocrisy is nuts Oct 27 20:24:46 Sure, i'm stopping Oct 27 20:24:47 ~stop Oct 27 20:24:48 PLEASE STOP! Oct 27 20:25:35 anyway. im still amazed my device rebooted fine earlier with 0 rootfs space :\ Oct 27 20:26:55 when I ssh in my n900, I'm root. How do I get to be user and not root? Oct 27 20:27:35 su $USER Oct 27 20:27:55 remember to create this user first though :) Oct 27 20:27:59 * Noobmonk3y burps bacon Oct 27 20:28:04 or ssh user@IP Oct 27 20:28:06 BACON!1!1!1 Oct 27 20:28:10 change pass for user first Oct 27 20:28:23 ok, I'll try Oct 27 20:30:21 ssh user@IP worked, thanks Oct 27 20:31:42 * lcuk runs over to Noobmonk3y and smells his bacony breath Oct 27 20:31:57 lcuk, hey man Oct 27 20:32:22 * lcuk isnt stopping, called for smokes - i am downstairs atm Oct 27 20:32:45 lcuk i wondered to ask somethin Oct 27 20:33:21 after tv, couple of hours Oct 27 20:33:59 short one Oct 27 20:34:29 ask everyone here and if you still dont know after i return i will have a go Oct 27 20:34:40 i wondered as you was hired by nokia there were almost no or no fmms updates, is it because of no time or nokia don't want you ? Oct 27 20:35:12 fmms was written by frals the great Oct 27 20:35:21 we just pushed him on Oct 27 20:35:48 oh damn Oct 27 20:35:59 lcuk, right, i'm little bit high =( Oct 27 20:36:08 * Noobmonk3y giggles Oct 27 20:36:08 what you mean pushed him on? Oct 27 20:36:10 lcuk was hired by nokia? Oct 27 20:36:15 evening lcuk - hope you are well? :) Oct 27 20:36:17 no frals was Oct 27 20:36:20 oh Oct 27 20:36:32 ShadowJK: Lcuk is nokia, he owns them, its penny change to him ;) lol Oct 27 20:36:45 frals: is just his gimp kiddy ;) Oct 27 20:36:53 * Noobmonk3y cuddles frals ;) Oct 27 20:37:53 the webos games don't have a quit, close, exit... how do you close them? just task manager and close? Oct 27 20:38:33 ctrl backspace? :P Oct 27 20:39:00 yes, it's what I'm doing. I was thinking that maybe there is another way Oct 27 20:39:57 press power button, end current task is another optiob Oct 27 20:40:27 power button Oct 27 20:42:35 i use shortcutd to assign the camera button to do what ctrl-backspace does, which is very useful in situation like that too Oct 27 20:42:35 * Noobmonk3y grumbles Oct 27 20:44:53 * DocScrutinizer51 is still amazed by the flying little windows every time he pushed BSp while holding CTRL Oct 27 20:46:49 * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if that transition has been one of the 1000 easter eggs in maemo (here hildon) or if matan implemented that Oct 27 20:47:29 DocScrutinizer51, I think it was matan Oct 27 20:47:43 dude Oct 27 20:47:53 something like move_windows() Oct 27 20:47:54 sec Oct 27 20:48:28 smokes compiz in a pipe Oct 27 20:48:43 +void hd_task_navigator_rotate_thumbs(void) { Oct 27 20:48:54 in his patch ^ Oct 27 20:49:08 ~hail matan Oct 27 20:49:08 * infobot bows down to matan and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" Oct 27 20:49:15 as well as +void hd_task_navigator_sort_thumbs(void) { Oct 27 20:54:24 man, fedora's such a fucking piece of garbage Oct 27 20:54:45 debian ftw! Oct 27 20:55:00 oh no, can't update packages because for some reason the proxy config isn't actually being set! Oct 27 20:55:08 despite having set it Oct 27 20:55:16 in multiple places ;-; Oct 27 20:59:09 Fresh from the oven - pr1.3 friendly tweakflashver now working and available for download Oct 27 21:00:20 * MohammadAG puts in fridge :P Oct 27 21:00:39 hmm, opera doesn't have tearing in fullscreen mode, desktop composition? Oct 27 21:01:34 weird how well the webos games run on n900... why weren't this game available earlier from the companies that made the games? :-) Oct 27 21:01:48 *those games Oct 27 21:01:58 it's not development difficulties, I assure you Oct 27 21:02:08 see the N8, it got tons of games today from gameloft Oct 27 21:02:09 yeah Oct 27 21:02:26 probably nokia said Oct 27 21:02:39 ioan: the pre was originally lower-clocked than the N900 Oct 27 21:02:41 "forget n900, give us games for n8 Oct 27 21:02:43 " Oct 27 21:03:45 it's not Nokia's decision Oct 27 21:03:49 it's the developers' Oct 27 21:04:00 the N900 has a fail DRM system Oct 27 21:04:07 why? cause it doesn't exist Oct 27 21:04:20 well, looks like webos is just the same... but they got the games Oct 27 21:04:25 that's not a fail, that's a win Oct 27 21:04:28 :) Oct 27 21:04:34 I agree achipa Oct 27 21:04:36 achipa, not for paid devs Oct 27 21:04:54 I don't give a crap really, games are for PCs/consoles :P Oct 27 21:05:02 MohammadAG: it's so easy to jailbreak/root/sideload nowadays that it makes no difference Oct 27 21:05:06 I enjoy PSP games more than iPhone ones Oct 27 21:05:09 for PCs! not consoles :-) Oct 27 21:05:19 consoles are full of win Oct 27 21:05:22 PCs are for FPSs Oct 27 21:05:33 play burnout on a PC, it's fail Oct 27 21:05:43 MohammadAG: if it's painless enough to buy the app (which wasn't necessarily the case ;) DRM doesn't matter Oct 27 21:06:14 my son is playing fallout new vegs on his 360 and I'm playing on pc... there is no comparation between the two :-) Oct 27 21:06:59 MohammadAG: consoles must pick up pace as in a generation or two phones will take over Oct 27 21:07:27 ioan: pre is carrier supported, so possible 100 tmes the selling of N900 Oct 27 21:07:53 though I heard n900 is supported by vodafone UK Oct 27 21:07:58 DocScrutinizer, you right Oct 27 21:08:07 or has been temporraily Oct 27 21:08:20 achipa, gameplay on phones fails Oct 27 21:08:27 is the vodafone 900 locked? Oct 27 21:08:33 nope Oct 27 21:08:33 n900 Oct 27 21:08:38 or, maybe yes Oct 27 21:08:41 dunno Oct 27 21:09:08 I seem to recall simlocked or carrierlocked N900 ofers on ebaeh Oct 27 21:09:16 MohammadAG: in what way is gameplay different on a phone than on a console ? Remember, we're talking about the era of WiDi, bluetooth controllers, etc Oct 27 21:09:30 I want man on my n900 :P Oct 27 21:09:51 install man-db-n900 Oct 27 21:10:00 Thx Oct 27 21:10:15 KaffeeJunky123: courtesy MohammadAG Oct 27 21:10:19 the post died, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=703347 :/ Oct 27 21:10:20 ;-D Oct 27 21:10:44 MohammadAG: err wut? Oct 27 21:10:52 RIP post! Oct 27 21:11:04 install less though, I'm not sure if I fixed that yet :P Oct 27 21:11:22 hehe Oct 27 21:11:39 Depends: groff-base, debconf (>= 1.2.0) | debconf-2.0, dpkg (>= 1.9.0), libc6 (>= 2.5.0-1), libgdbm3, zlib1g (>= 1.2.1), man-db-pages Oct 27 21:11:40 nope Oct 27 21:11:41 prolly everybody incl me testing it had already ;-P Oct 27 21:11:55 MohammadAG: FAILWALE Oct 27 21:12:03 * DocScrutinizer spanks MohammadAG Oct 27 21:12:20 * MohammadAG calls fellow terrorists Oct 27 21:12:25 Apt-get cant find man-db-n900 :( Oct 27 21:12:29 btw why less? shouldn't any $PAGER do? Oct 27 21:12:30 -devel Oct 27 21:12:43 sure, I suppose Oct 27 21:12:59 I'm at my phone btw :) Oct 27 21:13:05 :-D Oct 27 21:13:07 * MohammadAG invades bermuda triangle Oct 27 21:13:25 * MohammadAG finds PR1.3.3.7 Oct 27 21:13:36 ROTFL Oct 27 21:13:47 so that's why people never come out... Oct 27 21:13:53 man-db-n900 gives a lot of warnings about dangling symlinks Oct 27 21:13:57 is that problematic? Oct 27 21:14:01 no, ignore them Oct 27 21:14:03 MUUUUUUHaha Oct 27 21:14:07 * MohammadAG spanks ubuntu for having them Oct 27 21:14:58 suppose I have -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 255 2010-01-20 17:38 FcConfigCreate.3.gz Oct 27 21:15:07 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools for your convenience Oct 27 21:15:09 how do I only get FcConfigCreate.3.gz output? Oct 27 21:15:18 regexes, need to learn those Oct 27 21:15:49 regex? Oct 27 21:15:58 nvm, dump the idea Oct 27 21:16:09 * MohammadAG remembers when he 'ported' man-db Oct 27 21:16:11 hey, I teach regexes in real life Oct 27 21:16:13 easy - [^ ]$ Oct 27 21:16:23 err Oct 27 21:16:28 easy - [^ ]*$ Oct 27 21:16:28 javispedro, was a bit of a pessimist back then :P Oct 27 21:16:59 gitorious gave me a "guru meditation" isitdownforeveryoneorisjustme? Oct 27 21:17:10 Is there anything similar to apt-file on maemo? Oct 27 21:17:25 zero-width-lookahead-assertions 4ever Oct 27 21:17:26 javispedro, it's just everyone Oct 27 21:17:37 :P Oct 27 21:17:40 downforeverybodyorjustme.com Oct 27 21:17:48 ~isitdown Oct 27 21:17:49 [isitdown] http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ Oct 27 21:18:00 :P Oct 27 21:18:06 :-P Oct 27 21:18:08 I doubt it can parse "guru meditations" Oct 27 21:18:13 but.... *checks it * it does Oct 27 21:18:20 javispedro, it's down for me Oct 27 21:18:20 i guess it's sending 503 as http error code or sth Oct 27 21:18:22 so cool to have groff on the device Oct 27 21:18:25 wanted some meego stuff :/ Oct 27 21:18:32 damn, no stinking fart knows what it means nowadays Oct 27 21:18:36 oh, gpic too Oct 27 21:19:01 DocScrutinizer: what? the guru? Oct 27 21:19:19 GURU MEDIATION ERROR 0XFF26D418 Oct 27 21:19:51 Agnus is ill :) Oct 27 21:19:56 lol Oct 27 21:20:15 denise hand over some glass of water Oct 27 21:20:23 * lbt married denise Oct 27 21:20:37 and she has copper hair ;) Oct 27 21:21:02 and her shirt id full of blitter Oct 27 21:21:11 javispedro, hey, I noticed you maintain preenv. I saw this screenshot on the forum showing The Sims 3 with messed up orientation and resolution. If it's fixed now, is it possible for 'Galcon' to be fixed the same way ? It runs in landscape while the controls are in portrait. Oct 27 21:21:18 oh yea Oct 27 21:22:20 jacktheripper: two things. if it's portrait, check if you are running 0.1.1 or latter. if it still does not work, try to guess wheter it is a plain SDL, GLES1 or GLES2 application (look which libraries it links with) Oct 27 21:22:58 javispedro, it's SDL, and I'm running 0.1.1. Oct 27 21:23:12 jacktheripper: SDL-only is known not to work Oct 27 21:23:53 * DocScrutinizer still remembers the 4 layers of piggybacked RAM, was fun to solder Oct 27 21:24:07 javispedro, actually, the logs show SDL_GLES. I haven't noticed that before, sorry. Oct 27 21:24:08 DocScrutinizer, hey I get a solid yellow screen when I try boot, any idea what that means? Oct 27 21:24:11 /quit #amiga Oct 27 21:24:13 And it's not the yellow guru meditation Oct 27 21:24:14 only in 2nd build A1000 Oct 27 21:24:25 ;P Oct 27 21:24:29 hehe Oct 27 21:24:40 ShadowJK: ouch Oct 27 21:24:52 ShadowJK: means you're screwed? Oct 27 21:25:08 :-( Oct 27 21:25:17 ShadowJK: Hook up TV! Oct 27 21:25:21 immediately Oct 27 21:25:26 wha Oct 27 21:25:29 jacktheripper: search for "major version" in the log Oct 27 21:25:44 FPC borked? Oct 27 21:25:54 dude I'm talking about my Amiga 500 Oct 27 21:25:59 oooh Oct 27 21:26:04 man! Oct 27 21:26:11 javispedro, 'Requested GL major version 1' Oct 27 21:26:18 could someone with std PR1.3 do this for me: md5sum /usr/lib/browser/plugins/libflashplayer.so Oct 27 21:26:36 gimme sec DrWilken Oct 27 21:26:54 jacktheripper: so it is a OpenGL ES 1 game but the rotation hack is failing. No chances I fix it unless I decide to buy the game. Oct 27 21:27:35 (or I develop a much slower, lower quality, less hacky way to rotate...) Oct 27 21:27:58 (RIP) Oct 27 21:28:06 DrWilken, 180e59a335686fa6730b9299d62f724f Oct 27 21:28:10 thx merlin1991 Oct 27 21:28:20 javispedro, I could mess with it a little if you tell me about the rotation hack story :) Oct 27 21:28:45 ShadowJK: wait, you're getting an all yellow screen on TV out Amiga500? Oct 27 21:28:52 yes Oct 27 21:28:57 :-S Oct 27 21:29:02 can't verify it on adobe's test site for some reason Oct 27 21:29:15 jacktheripper: it is a carefully constructed set of lies about size of screen. the hack part comes from the redefinition of the GL identity projection matrix. Oct 27 21:29:28 agnus/debise boked? Oct 27 21:29:40 agnus/denise borked? Oct 27 21:30:12 or general bus fault - check extension cards etc Oct 27 21:30:48 sorry this is like decades back - not quite a fresh memory Oct 27 21:31:13 javispedro, Ah. The game looks like it plays in portrait because it's pretty stretched. Are you CWing all GLES apps ? Oct 27 21:32:03 jacktheripper: all GLES1 _scenes_. maybe that scene is not generated with OpenGL but directly blitted to screen. Oct 27 21:32:17 hehe Oct 27 21:32:39 this starts to be fun here Oct 27 21:33:00 DocScrutinizer: #maemo, the channel where you can both talk about #amiga and #webos =) Oct 27 21:33:03 DocScrutinizer, yeah I think google said it was agnus fault :/ Oct 27 21:33:33 hm. This $5-ish eastmaze external BL-5J has ominous bright purple glow Oct 27 21:33:42 * ShadowJK wonders if it's supposed to turn not-purple after charging done Oct 27 21:33:57 does anyone happen to know the name of the program that allows you to have more than 4 desktop screens? Oct 27 21:34:07 nah, it's supposed to coremelt after charge finished Oct 27 21:34:25 i'd start calling the fire brigade Oct 27 21:34:34 maybe i'm just to dumb but since that seems to be still not fixed: how can i save a preset-presence in the im-client WITH a status message? whats the point in adding a preset with a football just to tell that please dnd? Oct 27 21:34:37 maybe I should put it in my lipo safe sack Oct 27 21:34:50 thats totally braindead Oct 27 21:36:11 in TPE at OM somebody showed me a "charger" that's been so flimsy and thin I'd be surprised if there's been much more in it than a capacitor and diode from the mains contacts to the long battery springs Oct 27 21:36:20 lol Oct 27 21:36:40 Well some of them are built using the protection circuits Oct 27 21:37:33 am i really the only one who isn't bothered by that? Oct 27 21:37:44 anyway I was honestly scared to touch the thing, even far away from any mains outlet Oct 27 21:38:44 javispedro, could you where the rotation code is in the preenv source ? Oct 27 21:39:04 s/could you/could you tell me/ Oct 27 21:39:05 jacktheripper meant: javispedro, could you tell me where the rotation code is in the preenv source ? Oct 27 21:39:27 jacktheripper: sdlgl.c, many functions. Oct 27 21:39:34 ok Oct 27 21:39:55 javispedro: you HAX0R! Oct 27 21:41:09 that will bit me sooner or later, but at least it's true it was done in an afternoon =) Oct 27 21:41:53 aiui it already bitten you right in the PM Oct 27 21:43:04 shouting at users seems to work, as the latest PM actually contained a gdb backtrace... unfortunately, without debug symbols... Oct 27 21:43:17 gnhnhnhn Oct 27 21:43:29 ~debian $USER Oct 27 21:43:30 * infobot tells $USER to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! Oct 27 21:44:06 heh Oct 27 21:44:12 amazing, you are all still here :) Oct 27 21:44:16 those Debianites know how to party Oct 27 21:44:18 ""please send coredumps!"" Oct 27 21:44:24 javispedro: hehehe Oct 27 21:44:32 javispedro: who are those debianites? Oct 27 21:45:13 Debian-ites (I guess I used the wrong gentilice) Oct 27 21:45:38 javispedro: you mean debian developers? :) Oct 27 21:45:42 yep Oct 27 21:45:58 * DocScrutinizer kicks infobot into the guts Oct 27 21:46:08 ~dict gentilice Oct 27 21:46:11 could not find definition for gentilice Oct 27 21:46:18 ooh Oct 27 21:46:19 hmm.. Oct 27 21:46:22 ~dict gentilic Oct 27 21:46:24 could not find definition for gentilic Oct 27 21:46:28 ~dict demonym Oct 27 21:46:30 could not find definition for demonym Oct 27 21:46:37 * javispedro kicks infobot into the guts Oct 27 21:46:40 ~dict cow Oct 27 21:46:41 Dictionary 'cow' (1 of 11): \Cow\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Cowed} (koud); p. pr. & vb. n. {Cowing}.] [Cf. Icel. kuga, Sw. kufva to check, subdue, Dan. kue. Cf. {Cuff}, v. t.] To depress with fear; to daunt the spirits or courage of; to overawe. [1913 Webster] To vanquish a people already cowed. --Shak. [1913 Webster] THe French king was cowed. --J. R. Green. [1913 Webster]. Oct 27 21:47:05 at least no more "alarm at 52, foobar() botked couldn't talk" Oct 27 21:47:42 ~evilbot Oct 27 21:47:50 [2010-10-26 06:37:15] ~dict beer Oct 27 21:47:51 [2010-10-26 06:37:26] i could not get info from dict.org 'alarm at /home/ibot/infobot/src/Modules/Dict.pl line 42. Oct 27 21:48:06 I've got an empty list of plugins in MicroB (Options > Add-Ons). Any ideas? Oct 27 21:48:21 *cough* Oct 27 21:48:43 ping the only expert on this planet: timeless Oct 27 21:50:08 I've tried re-installing osso-browser and plugins too. Oct 27 21:51:30 try typing "about:plugins" in URL Oct 27 21:52:14 same :/ no plugins installed Oct 27 21:52:27 if nothing's listed there I can only think of installing syslog, and checking what does it say when running browser Oct 27 21:53:23 ok, i'll give it a go. just thought I could make it re-read/reset it's config somehow. Oct 27 21:54:52 * sivang wonders what people are still doing here. Oct 27 21:55:12 where do you want us to go? Oct 27 21:56:29 installed latest linux version of nokia qt sdk and madde doesnt seem to have pr13 target in it.. windows version had it there Oct 27 21:56:49 moin Oct 27 21:58:16 sivang: why? you're also here, what are *you* doing? :-D Oct 27 21:58:32 DocScrutinizer: I'm totally lifleless and a Nokia fanboy :-P Oct 27 21:58:35 GLIB CRITICAL ** Gtk - gtk_widget_set_sensitive: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed Oct 27 21:58:44 ignore. Oct 27 21:59:01 I hate that one Oct 27 21:59:27 DocScrutinizer: A girl 32 years old, (I'm 32 as) hid the fact she has a 11 year old girl. She insisted for us to meet last night, Oct 27 21:59:45 SET_ACTIVE:0x61028, 0->1, is_layout_active:0, ChangeSusp:TRUE Oct 27 21:59:59 DocScrutinizer: so I went , met her, and today she texted me "from my side this is not *it*" :) Oct 27 22:00:03 the rest looks ok Oct 27 22:00:40 javispedro: don't go anywhere, your Debianties partying comment rolled me on the floor Oct 27 22:01:06 heh Oct 27 22:01:53 javispedro: I used to once know some that could party by drinking and playing 'Mao' card games all night long Oct 27 22:02:03 back then, in 2004 Oct 27 22:02:10 I was young and handsome :-p Oct 27 22:02:48 sivang: (rolled on floor) what till we start talking funny Oct 27 22:03:03 any ideas? besides contacting timeless? :) Oct 27 22:03:19 virgin sacrifice? Oct 27 22:03:23 HAHA Oct 27 22:03:58 javispedro, DocScrutinizer : if I cross post to meego/maemo will you kindly respond to my email? I want to start getting "data" for my talk and what happened today with docs is relevant Oct 27 22:04:07 DrWilken: I recall there's been such problem on some PR1.0.1 which turned out to be stale symlinks or sth Oct 27 22:04:27 DrWilken: to me sounds like you should check if all your plugins' library dependencies are satisfied Oct 27 22:04:39 but at this point I'm completely biased about Libraries, Libraries, Libraries. Oct 27 22:04:48 (any others are ofcourse wlecome, there's a sense that Maemo people won't really flow to join MeeGo so fast and I think this can be helped if we communicate what we need structurly) Oct 27 22:04:51 thx for the suggestions :) Oct 27 22:04:52 sivang: I'm awfully lazy at mail Oct 27 22:04:56 libraries libraries libraries Oct 27 22:04:57 sivang: depend on what you ask =) Oct 27 22:05:47 javispedro: I am going to ask you, actually, to take out all your anger, sarcasm and discontent with how the project went and with the bad stuff that currently prvent maemoer for happily joining meego to be tossed at my drection :) Oct 27 22:06:24 so I can , after recovering from the wounds collect it and prepare it to be some basis for a talk of what needs to be done to not repeat mistakes. Oct 27 22:06:41 DrWilken: anyway iirc back when not even reinstalling microb helped Oct 27 22:07:02 http://conference2010.meego.com/session/creating-first-choice-open-source-mobile-platform-learning-mistakes-past-and-beyond Oct 27 22:07:04 sivang, good plan. Oct 27 22:07:07 kerio: developers developers developers developers developers Oct 27 22:07:12 hahaha Oct 27 22:07:15 exactly Oct 27 22:07:26 we can change this according to the day's thee Oct 27 22:07:27 theme Oct 27 22:07:28 sivang, somebody should clearly point JAFFA in your direction. Oct 27 22:07:44 that's andrew flagg right? Oct 27 22:07:48 I think it's too late, though Oct 27 22:07:48 he just vainshed someday Oct 27 22:07:49 Yeah Oct 27 22:07:55 thx for the info DocS. I'll dig deeper... :) Oct 27 22:08:14 * DocScrutinizer throws a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE at kerio Oct 27 22:09:00 I ofcourse have already my take, and some observations and am going to ask that input as well during the talk (that's one of its purposes) but would be ncie to have some more thought from Maemo people , who shoud have been the basis for MeeGO Oct 27 22:09:05 *MeeGo Oct 27 22:09:05 GAN900: Jaffa vanished? :S Oct 27 22:09:49 ~seen jaffa Oct 27 22:10:04 DocScrutinizer: is he sweating there? :) Oct 27 22:10:05 jaffa is currently on #maemo (2d 4h 48m 19s) #meego (2d 4h 48m 19s), last said: 'MohammadAG: Any chance of a fremantle-1.3.1 with the Modest patches?'. Oct 27 22:10:06 she's thinking Oct 27 22:11:05 DocScrutinizer: btw, love the first comment: "Deodorant Deodorant Deodorant!" Oct 27 22:11:16 hehehe Oct 27 22:11:55 I don't want to email him directly, feels like spamming, so I'll fire off the thread to meego and maemo and try to draw his attention to t Oct 27 22:11:57 sivang, so what do you think about the subject? Oct 27 22:12:03 javispedro, he makes me do mwkn every Sunday. :( Oct 27 22:12:36 being with microsoft must be darn grueling Oct 27 22:12:38 sivang, council@maemo.org Oct 27 22:12:43 GAN900: he was quite busy lately, I found Oct 27 22:12:50 * javispedro hides Oct 27 22:12:56 GAN900: ok, thanks will do. Oct 27 22:13:50 * GAN900 highfives javispedro. Oct 27 22:13:57 Guess what we don't have to do? Oct 27 22:14:23 ShadowJK: well, there's lots of things as observations, but for me as being still mostly on the user there's unfortunate UI decisions, lack of proper official documentation, development offering disconnected from real world (as I learned from thp and his experience on cross development) etc Oct 27 22:14:52 GAN900: :P Oct 27 22:14:55 ShadowJK: for most of te things I do not know the root reason or cause, as I havenot been enough with the Mameo community as a developer, but as a user... Oct 27 22:15:13 sivang: "disconnection with the real world" is nearly a Nokia core rule =) Oct 27 22:15:18 ~pr1.3 Oct 27 22:15:18 pr1.3 is, like, the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54 Oct 27 22:15:45 ShadowJK: tagging severe usability bugs as wontfix (as I found trough my poor experience with th eupgrade) and more Oct 27 22:15:54 trolls! :-P Oct 27 22:15:58 hehe Oct 27 22:16:27 "connecting people/disconnecting universe" Oct 27 22:16:33 sivang, as mostly a user, and 30 minutes developer per week, I'm maemo because it's actually usable for me right now. Moving to MeeGo just means I have to find new ways to work around these "unfortunate decisions" of varying kind, and also just working around differencies. Oct 27 22:16:42 I dont think that will fly as the new company slogan Oct 27 22:16:48 btw speaking of thp, I wonder if there'll be a gpodder in MeeGo seeing as there'll be no gtk? Oct 27 22:16:52 gpodder is one of my favourite apps :-( Oct 27 22:17:23 ShadowJK: He's waiting for PySide to support MTF Oct 27 22:17:26 ShadowJK: properly Oct 27 22:17:34 ShadowJK: he already did a prototype in C++ Oct 27 22:17:37 mikhas: heh, yesterday DrHouse reunited 2 brothers by playing their common enemy. Seems Nokia aims at the same for "people" Oct 27 22:17:46 sivang: I guess the interface guidelines where written on stone tablets (like God's Ten Commandments), because they have not been changed since the first release on Forum Nokia. Oct 27 22:17:50 sivang, so it's a full rewrite more or less Oct 27 22:18:10 sivang: so, they follow those "guidelines" to the letter, never change them => usability failures are marked as WONTFIX Oct 27 22:18:13 tweak flash working great now Oct 27 22:19:11 PySide support for MTF? ambitious ;-) Oct 27 22:19:20 ShadowJK: check his blog, he has a welath of info there, he also was kind to link it from my meego/symbian cross devel page on meego wiki Oct 27 22:19:33 * ShadowJK also has no clue how to install obs.. actually I have no clue how to install sb either.. i just used the vm Oct 27 22:20:11 yeah I wish firefox would come back to life in less than 5 minutes Oct 27 22:20:13 I need more ram Oct 27 22:20:19 apparently 8g isn't enough anymore :/ Oct 27 22:20:44 javispedro: sounds somewhat familiar to ex OM employees :-/ Oct 27 22:21:06 sivang: I am soooooo going to your talk Oct 27 22:21:57 javispedro: please DO come, I will wear an armed vest Oct 27 22:21:58 :) Oct 27 22:22:00 We're all bringing popcorn. Oct 27 22:22:04 ShadowJK: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/282447/ Oct 27 22:22:12 GAN900: please be gentle with the tomatos okay? Oct 27 22:22:25 ShadowJK: It's maxed out at managing mmu tables :-P Oct 27 22:22:43 Enable 4MiB pages! Oct 27 22:23:05 that'll just make swapping worse I bet Oct 27 22:23:07 * javispedro needs to hear that Developers,Developers,Developers rap again Oct 27 22:23:32 javispedro: I will ask timeless to do it for you on our talk :) Oct 27 22:23:41 ShadowJK: SWAPPINESS?? on (GiB RAM?? Oct 27 22:23:45 8 even Oct 27 22:24:03 sivang: hehe Oct 27 22:24:04 YES Oct 27 22:24:29 what the hell are you running on that iron? Oct 27 22:24:50 21st century pr0n? Oct 27 22:24:56 heh Oct 27 22:24:57 bubblesort on phonebook of mexico city? Oct 27 22:25:03 javispedro: alien women included? Oct 27 22:25:21 :P Oct 27 22:26:00 no a bubblesort is actually very cache friendly Oct 27 22:26:05 ;) Oct 27 22:26:11 it's streaming Oct 27 22:27:06 and what in streaming needs >8GB ram? Oct 27 22:27:17 exactly Oct 27 22:27:17 so you needed some swap Oct 27 22:28:15 is your streaming server caching the whole DVD, or what? Oct 27 22:28:44 even reading ahead the next one? Oct 27 22:28:57 no, they wanted ultimate quality Oct 27 22:28:58 I meant bubblesort is like streaming Oct 27 22:29:18 so they re-encoded their DVD's as H264 1080p Oct 27 22:29:26 lol Oct 27 22:29:32 crashanddie: in 3D! at 25fps! Oct 27 22:29:40 javispedro: ON ICE! Oct 27 22:29:46 still no need for 8GB plus swap on top Oct 27 22:30:03 maybe it's a 8GiB per second stream Oct 27 22:30:14 * DocScrutinizer shudders Oct 27 22:30:22 21st century pr0n! Oct 27 22:30:28 omfg Oct 27 22:30:37 holographic pr0n Oct 27 22:31:09 ohh holographic Oct 27 22:31:14 add touch support Oct 27 22:32:05 5 tracks is too much, too many collisions :S Oct 27 22:32:13 (on meego conf) Oct 27 22:32:47 * javispedro goes find the old human-replicator he used to attend his colliding uni lectures Oct 27 22:32:57 javispedro: yes, somewhat problematic, too many intresting things to miss Oct 27 22:33:26 javispedro: for colliding uni lectures there are video lectures no? we had them, they used to be better than the live lectures Oct 27 22:33:47 javispedro: you forgot? you sold it to raster Oct 27 22:33:57 well, I hope that the Linux foundation does a better job recording all session than "previous events" Oct 27 22:34:51 DocScrutinizer: is he using it for evil-doing? Then he can keep it. Oct 27 22:36:02 I've seen raster chatting with himself, on 3 concurrent irc channels ;-D Oct 27 22:36:13 ~tell infobot about raster Oct 27 22:36:38 I wonder which sorta segfault this induces Oct 27 22:36:44 ~tell infobot about tell infobot Oct 27 22:36:59 hi folks Oct 27 22:37:10 Isn't that a bit silly? Oct 27 22:37:12 :) Oct 27 22:37:13 can I get a coredump of the coredump, please? Oct 27 22:37:48 hi Oct 27 22:38:00 hey Arkanaic Oct 27 22:38:31 YAAaaWn..naic Oct 27 22:38:36 hehee.. nokia qt sdk updater thing freezed and now i cant even kill the process from task manager. loving it! Oct 27 22:40:04 ummm... task manager? Oct 27 22:40:21 wtf is that? Oct 27 22:40:30 ps ax ;) Oct 27 22:40:31 you know windows task manager :D Oct 27 22:40:38 :D Oct 27 22:40:40 ~tell DocScrutinizer about bill gates Oct 27 22:40:42 actually no Oct 27 22:41:38 that man is poss-essed Oct 27 22:41:41 seriously Oct 27 22:41:43 uuh that DOS gfx extention Oct 27 22:42:12 dolppp: I would recommend opening a bug about that, Oct 27 22:42:22 dolppp: for me, this is the same like network download- it almost never worked Oct 27 22:42:49 "Russia to create Windows rival" --- http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101027/tc_afp/russiagovernmentinternet Oct 27 22:43:04 YEAHHHH! \o/ Oct 27 22:43:19 yet another DOS gfx extension Oct 27 22:43:21 "We will become independent of Windows ... but it risks becoming an unthinking implantation of Linux," he added. Oct 27 22:43:34 * javispedro checks if this is the onion news network... Oct 27 22:43:35 dolppp: and there's a very rude bug in progress indication, when it starts to download the maemo cross tool chain roots, it reports it is only one precent change at the start and then you wait for ever like a dumb for it to move forward, which it will only after finishing a very large download Oct 27 22:44:00 FYI - rm -rf ~/.mozilla/microb did the trick - all plugins available now Oct 27 22:44:41 it's autogenerated when starting microb Oct 27 22:44:47 hehe Oct 27 22:44:53 :) Oct 27 22:45:00 now that you tell me, I seem to remember Oct 27 22:45:19 * ShadowJK wonders how you buy something from someone's amazon wishlist so that it gets shipped to them Oct 27 22:45:21 where is the account config stored again? gconf? Oct 27 22:45:30 well I did it once or twice before and I didn't even remember :) Oct 27 22:46:23 chem|st - same place :) Oct 27 22:46:33 dolppp: I wanted to report that, but the qt bug tracker mademe surrender after a while Oct 27 22:46:50 afair Oct 27 22:46:57 Hey Mohammad, are you there? Oct 27 22:47:03 DrWilken: gconf? Oct 27 22:47:35 DrWilken: seems I am blind again.. Oct 27 22:47:56 nope. ~/.mozilla/microb/key3.db maybe? Oct 27 22:48:20 or signons.sqlite? :) Oct 27 22:48:37 DrWilken: what are you are about? Oct 27 22:49:00 maemo "Accounts" wont be stored in .mozilla! Oct 27 22:49:16 haha... :) Oct 27 22:49:17 what type of account? Oct 27 22:49:39 DocScrutinizer: "Accounts" like skype jabber etc Oct 27 22:49:46 lol Oct 27 22:50:00 gotta sleep... c ya'll Oct 27 22:50:10 I got NFC but take any bet skype != jabber Oct 27 22:50:15 * chem|st is wondering if there is another "Accounts" in maemo... Oct 27 22:50:39 user accounts Oct 27 22:50:44 SIP accounts Oct 27 22:50:52 telepathy accounts Oct 27 22:51:03 Chewtoy: are you looking for the telepathy accounts? they are stored a sqllite db Oct 27 22:51:08 webbased HTML foo "accounts" Oct 27 22:51:23 chem|st: are you looking for the telepathy accounts? they are stored a sqllite db Oct 27 22:51:29 DocScrutinizer: yes... serious question is there another "Accounts"? Oct 27 22:52:07 javispedro: btw, the advisory board for ui guidelines has recently been re-elected Oct 27 22:52:11 fcrochik: I did edit a textfile with the login details in pr1.2 and forgot about it! dont want to grep the whole thing Oct 27 22:52:23 Eh... I assume that was a wrong highlightning. Oct 27 22:52:32 Chewtoy: yes...sorry! Oct 27 22:52:35 what do you want to hear? result from "strings /* | grep Accounts"? Oct 27 22:52:57 fcrochik: Yeah. No problems. Just a tad surprised. :P Oct 27 22:53:35 javispedro: I got the note since FNC program sent a request to champions to see who wants to participates, but they had enough voulenteers. I wonder how we can commmunicate with them once they have finsihed to offer input on the new guidelines. Oct 27 22:53:42 DocScrutinizer: oh I am sorry I have there a semicolon missing in my code.... Oct 27 22:53:53 javispedro: err, actually to be more precies, this was for an advisory board for a quick gude to guidelines Oct 27 22:53:59 Has anybody installed Mohammad's hildon desktop( The one merged with Matan's, His and thp's? )? Oct 27 22:54:06 javispedro: such that you would be able to employ without having to read 400 pages books Oct 27 22:54:08 on PR 1.3* Oct 27 22:54:20 chem|st: sorry you completely lost me Oct 27 22:54:28 DocScrutinizer: I look for the config for the Accounts as not in user accounts but the details like server and so on Oct 27 22:54:34 not that you ever got me Oct 27 22:54:39 DocScrutinizer: hehe Oct 27 22:55:14 chem|st: for which service? Oct 27 22:55:17 chem|st: O can't remember where I found them... you can find all the "contacts" for them under /home/user/.osso-abook/db/tp-cache... Oct 27 22:55:42 fcrochik: DocScrutinizer .rtcom-accounts/accounts.cfg Oct 27 22:55:47 got it Oct 27 22:56:09 yeah, that's just one credentials storage Oct 27 22:56:28 DocScrutinizer: thought it was all in one sorry Oct 27 22:56:29 DocScrutinizer: this is one of the most scary things I found about maemo - how all the passwords are in one place for anybody to grab Oct 27 22:56:58 fcrochik: in plain text... Oct 27 22:57:13 fcrochik: do you think *a bot* had more problems gathering them from scattered files? Oct 27 22:57:22 ok mschap needs to be plain text Oct 27 22:57:44 chem|st: do you think *a bot* had more difficulties to decode them than you would Oct 27 22:58:05 DocScrutinizer: don't think so but here it is a 30chars line in a shell... Oct 27 22:58:06 DocScrutinizer: not really.... but if each telepathy account had it's own place would require a little more work... 5 minutes more Oct 27 22:58:44 5ms more, cpu time of the virus Oct 27 22:58:51 DocScrutinizer: if they arent guessable passwords are quiet strong if stored correctly Oct 27 22:58:54 5 min more for the legit user Oct 27 22:59:17 DDRFAN: what has this merged hildon-desktop fixed? Oct 27 22:59:21 nonsense Oct 27 22:59:23 hah, some spaniard complaining that nokia care told him the microusb port issue means "out of warranty" Oct 27 22:59:59 DocScrutinizer: I got your point... doesn't mean that I have to like all my passwords up for grabs.... Oct 27 23:00:11 DocScrutinizer: 5min? wget