**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 07 02:59:58 2010 Nov 07 03:00:18 ? :\ Nov 07 03:00:26 if it did, wouldnt be in the specs? Nov 07 03:00:29 well i did add a bit Nov 07 03:00:32 wouldnt it Nov 07 03:00:43 nox sure would Nov 07 03:00:50 ok is there a channel to discuss non-maemo aspects of the n900? Nov 07 03:01:17 #wimax ? Nov 07 03:01:35 http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node10.html Nov 07 03:02:10 ... Nov 07 03:02:55 MohammadAG51: pong Nov 07 03:03:23 n900 does not support wimax Nov 07 03:04:55 tada. Nov 07 03:05:01 have you tried :P ? Nov 07 03:05:22 its not in the specs, so why should it? Nov 07 03:05:49 heh Nov 07 03:05:58 I have inspected the hardware schematic, and found no mention of it. Nov 07 03:06:02 http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=863020 Nov 07 03:06:05 It's not there. Nov 07 03:06:28 oh, you mean, it doesn't come with a wimax chipset onboard? Nov 07 03:08:13 not very bright? Nov 07 03:08:26 kthomas_vh: are we talking 900 810 800 or 770? Nov 07 03:08:51 :) Nov 07 03:08:59 770 runs maemo? Nov 07 03:09:05 chem|st, I have 810w and 900 Nov 07 03:09:18 both with not auth to Clearwire in NYC Nov 07 03:09:23 *will Nov 07 03:09:39 810w is wimax edition n900 does not have a wimax edition Nov 07 03:10:27 nope, *but* it does have microUSB Nov 07 03:12:25 kthomas_vh: USB host-mode is still in alpha state and I doubt you will get any wimax-stick working yet Nov 07 03:12:32 good morning Nov 07 03:12:41 heh Nov 07 03:12:43 I mean properly... Nov 07 03:12:50 ok, I'll buy that Nov 07 03:13:25 what is your problem connecting with 810 anyway? Nov 07 03:15:05 sec Nov 07 03:16:55 "Authentication failed. Try again?" Nov 07 03:17:24 which may be a Clear problem, this is a new deployment alas Nov 07 03:50:34 Hi guys. Could one tell me please where to find the latest theme source package template for maemo5 (N900) ? Nov 07 04:38:49 hm Nov 07 04:38:58 is there an rdesktop for m5? Nov 07 04:39:33 Macer: I guess. Nov 07 04:39:45 muelli: not in extras Nov 07 04:40:00 Macer: you can try the Debian package. Nov 07 04:40:03 if there is any Nov 07 04:40:19 i am checking testing and devel now Nov 07 04:41:12 and is it me or does maemo.org not fit on an n900? :) i thought the site was set up to be looked at from maemo on a device Nov 07 04:43:03 ah well. let me look around. i remember there being an rdp for maemo5 Nov 07 04:44:20 ah ok... my bad. had the font size set to large Nov 07 04:51:23 found rdesktop in devel Nov 07 04:51:36 wonder if pkgs are even maintained for maemo anymore Nov 07 04:51:50 ah well. as long as it works Nov 07 04:51:59 some packages get updated frequently Nov 07 04:52:08 and others get updates once in a while Nov 07 04:52:17 there's some new ones from times to time stoo Nov 07 05:51:21 is repository.maemo.org not resolving ? Nov 07 05:53:15 ignore me - dummy network was being a dummy ;) Nov 07 06:19:29 Hello, all Nov 07 06:39:28 Hi Nov 07 06:39:32 guys i have tiny problem with my Media player Nov 07 06:39:34 Hello Nov 07 06:39:45 it stops playing my songs in middle at times Nov 07 06:39:51 without informing any problem .. Nov 07 06:39:57 happens rarely Nov 07 06:40:11 Done any OCing? Nov 07 06:40:12 actually happend twice yesterday when i was hearing Nov 07 06:40:15 no i didn't Nov 07 06:40:21 never OC'd my N900 Nov 07 06:40:31 does the media player actually -crash- or just stop? Nov 07 06:40:35 no crash Nov 07 06:40:38 just stops playing Nov 07 06:40:44 i have to play again and then it works fine Nov 07 06:40:49 dosent happen always * Nov 07 06:40:54 can you resume from where you were before? Nov 07 06:40:59 no Nov 07 06:41:07 the seeker moves back to first Nov 07 06:41:13 Hm... what earphones do you have? Nov 07 06:41:17 Nokias Nov 07 06:41:20 Nokias * Nov 07 06:41:32 These tracks you have are on MyDocs, right? Nov 07 06:41:39 yes Nov 07 06:41:41 in the .sounds file Nov 07 06:41:47 all my tracks are there Nov 07 06:42:05 Ok, lets try this: 1. connect it to your PC, and use USB mode Nov 07 06:42:12 ok hold Nov 07 06:42:33 2. Open my computer, right-click on your "nokia n900" drive, select properties Nov 07 06:42:55 USB mode? Nov 07 06:42:58 mass storage ? Nov 07 06:43:00 Yea Nov 07 06:43:04 ok Nov 07 06:43:21 then Nov 07 06:43:27 3. I forget which tab it is, but one of them has chkdsk(checkdisk). Nov 07 06:43:42 you want to run it, and select any "fix automatically" options Nov 07 06:43:52 error checking ? Nov 07 06:43:59 in tools ? Nov 07 06:44:02 Yea Nov 07 06:44:05 ok Nov 07 06:44:18 I'm on Linux; it's been quite a while since I've run a Windows PC, sorry. Nov 07 06:44:20 its checking Nov 07 06:44:24 Oh okay Nov 07 06:44:27 lol Nov 07 06:44:31 how did you know i ran Windows ? Nov 07 06:44:38 I guessed Nov 07 06:44:44 and did you face such media player problems before ? Nov 07 06:45:28 Not on my n900, no(at least, not this sort of thing). On a previous player, yes. But, it sounds to me like one of two things: Nov 07 06:45:51 1. disk corruption, it (possibly intermittantly) not being able to read and stopping. Nov 07 06:46:01 oh ... hmmm Nov 07 06:46:03 under linux you use fsck Nov 07 06:46:14 Yea Nov 07 06:46:28 ok it fixed the errors Nov 07 06:46:38 Did it say there -were- any errors? Nov 07 06:46:39 i'll have to play some music and test it over time now Nov 07 06:46:43 hmm no i didn't say Nov 07 06:46:52 just said successfully scanned Nov 07 06:46:53 Ok, well either way Nov 07 06:46:54 and fixed Nov 07 06:47:25 is it because i'm using these WebOS games Nov 07 06:47:32 which leaves behind so many sound files Nov 07 06:47:42 like around 600 Nov 07 06:47:45 If you have it stop on a specific track again, try to play that track like five times. make sure it goes all the way through, or if it stops, does it stop in the same place? Nov 07 06:47:50 Nah, shouldn't matter. Nov 07 06:48:12 A note though: the Media Player won't index any files in a folder named "Private" Nov 07 06:48:13 it stops in the same place Nov 07 06:48:21 nop nothing is private Nov 07 06:48:26 no folder of such Nov 07 06:48:39 No, so I mean, you can -make- such a folder and copy your files into that Nov 07 06:48:58 oh hmm oh okay the sound files for games Nov 07 06:49:01 okay Nov 07 06:49:10 Also, it may continue to do the same stopping. That means there is an error in the track itself, and you need to re-copy it over from your PC Nov 07 06:49:33 if there was an error in the track it wont play well on the PC Nov 07 06:49:42 and it only happens at times on the N900 that it stops playing Nov 07 06:50:04 but sometimes it'll play that track all the way through? Nov 07 06:50:09 yes Nov 07 06:50:18 only at times it stop all of a sudden Nov 07 06:50:33 And always at the same place, right? Nov 07 06:50:37 hmm i think it happens with the radio also Nov 07 06:50:45 i've checked my connection nothing wrong wiith connection Nov 07 06:51:01 Hmm probably when the songs end Nov 07 06:51:07 dosen't happen only with one song Nov 07 06:51:44 the internet radio i mean Nov 07 06:51:48 Well, with the media files, my best guess are slowly failing bits of your flash. It happens commonly, but in this case it's trying to read it and not always able to. Nov 07 06:51:56 Not sure about that Nov 07 06:52:18 hmm should i open a bug list about this ? Nov 07 06:52:26 You may also want to try downloading KMPlayer and using that instead, or one of the other alternative players. Nov 07 06:52:36 Nah, wait until you've seen that it's this(or not this) Nov 07 06:52:43 hmm okay Nov 07 06:52:49 I'll get KMplayer and try it Nov 07 06:52:57 Because if you have a bad file/disk error, that's what it -should- do Nov 07 06:52:58 but first i'll test it again on my normal MP Nov 07 06:53:11 oh .. okay Nov 07 06:53:20 Otherwise, it'd do something like crash Nov 07 06:53:49 i never crashed that i'm sure of Nov 07 06:53:53 it just stops Nov 07 06:53:59 and the seeker comes back to the start Nov 07 06:54:11 Yea; so it's -probably- running into some sort of error. Nov 07 06:54:20 hmm yes could be Nov 07 06:55:10 can this happen if i lock the screen ? Nov 07 06:55:12 while playing Nov 07 06:55:15 i mean the slider lock Nov 07 06:55:21 no, it shouldn't Nov 07 06:55:24 hmm ok Nov 07 06:56:09 If it does continue to do this, there are a few tests that can be done, see where exactly things are going wrong Nov 07 06:56:10 thanks anyways Nov 07 06:56:20 okay tell me the tests Nov 07 06:56:24 i'll try them Nov 07 06:56:26 I dunno Nov 07 06:57:01 I'd probably look into strace for example Nov 07 06:57:12 strace ? Nov 07 06:57:58 psycho_oreos: Isn't there a log or something? Nov 07 06:58:51 xDaReaperx, string trace I believe it is and it traces what is going on with the program, CLI tool only Nov 07 06:59:28 You -may- also get some output by: 1. Open an xterminal window. 2. type "mediaplayer", press enter, then launch the media player. You may or may not get any information when things happen Nov 07 06:59:43 You'd see it in the xterminal window Nov 07 06:59:46 oh okay Nov 07 06:59:49 command line fine Nov 07 06:59:53 i'll see hold .. Nov 07 07:00:18 You won't see -any- output normally(I see one line when you close the media player, but that's it) Nov 07 07:00:26 oh Nov 07 07:00:27 hmmm Nov 07 07:00:36 But if it crashes/stops Nov 07 07:00:38 no I tried that, it won't fork to foreground Nov 07 07:00:43 RobbieThe1st, not that I know of Nov 07 07:00:57 okay Nov 07 07:00:58 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 2010-05-12 04:12 /usr/bin/mediaplayer -> maemo-invoker Nov 07 07:01:11 psycho_oreos: Then why does it give a filter error upon closing the media player? Nov 07 07:01:50 RobbieThe1st, I suppose the filter error are just output as in STDERR rather than outputting to a file Nov 07 07:02:26 Yea. But wouldn't that be what we want? Nov 07 07:03:19 i assume that would give me a detailed log ? Nov 07 07:03:58 I don't know what, if any, logs are kept by the Maemo media player Nov 07 07:04:03 hmm Nov 07 07:04:12 anyways i can't CD to /usr/bin/mediaplayer Nov 07 07:04:18 to run maemo-invoker Nov 07 07:04:23 It's not a directory Nov 07 07:04:25 okay Nov 07 07:04:50 /usr/bin/mediaplayer is symlinked to /usr/bin/maemo-invoker Nov 07 07:05:14 This means that when you run /usr/bin/mediaplayer, it actually runs maemo-invoker Nov 07 07:05:21 oh Nov 07 07:05:26 okay fine Nov 07 07:05:29 i get it Nov 07 07:05:32 In your case though, we just want to run /usr/bin/mediaplayer - Nov 07 07:06:03 Note that /usr/bin is in what's known as the $PATH. This means that, from any directory, typing "mediaplayer" will launch that file Nov 07 07:06:41 So, typing '/usr/bin/mediaplayer' will do the same thing as just typing 'mediaplayer' Nov 07 07:06:45 it doesn't output the stuff to the file unless it crashed.. there might be another way of looking at it, that is to install syslogd Nov 07 07:06:54 i typed mediaplayer i wont launch Nov 07 07:07:10 mediaplayer just runs in the background, like I tested Nov 07 07:07:10 No, it won't Nov 07 07:07:19 ok Nov 07 07:07:37 type that, press enter, then open the media player from your normal media player widget/launch icon Nov 07 07:07:44 ok Nov 07 07:07:45 without closing your xterm window Nov 07 07:08:12 okay did that Nov 07 07:08:16 so when i close media player Nov 07 07:08:30 Now, play whatever track you had problems with Nov 07 07:08:32 it might give me a single line report of only if there were crashes ? Nov 07 07:08:36 yes playing it Nov 07 07:08:59 You may see information in xterm if there's an error with media player. Nov 07 07:09:07 hmm okay Nov 07 07:09:17 You will -also- see an extra line when you close the media player Nov 07 07:09:40 interesting it does, but I don't have the same issue, when I close mediaplayer from the GUI side it exits with two lines printed Nov 07 07:09:41 Oh Nov 07 07:09:50 What do you see? Nov 07 07:10:21 Attempt to remove filter function 0x42f5a1f0 user data (nil), but no such filter has been added | Init: 0x46567270 <--- mind you this is from my n900 (pr1.2 with custom kernel and setup) Nov 07 07:10:29 it said attempt to remove filter function 0x417e11f8 user data (nil) , but no such fileter has been added Nov 07 07:10:44 PR 1.3 Nokias kernel here Nov 07 07:10:46 RST38h: Know anything about debugging media player errors? Nov 07 07:11:07 I've got a PR1.3 n900 with the PR1.2-power40 kernel Nov 07 07:11:16 oh Nov 07 07:11:23 But it shouldn't matter Nov 07 07:11:27 not really Nov 07 07:11:46 I suppose one will need to whip out gdb :) Nov 07 07:11:50 but, of course, upgrading to a proper kernel is the obvious first step Nov 07 07:12:26 afaik PR1.2 and PR1.3 kernel remains the same Nov 07 07:12:45 I thought they added some patches? Nov 07 07:13:07 RST38h: It's xDaReaperx's error, nor mine Nov 07 07:13:09 in any case the errors is related to a memory pointer Nov 07 07:14:07 yeah they did added patches but none that I'm aware of were related to kernel.. at least the kernel version between PR1.2 and PR1.3 remained the same.. unless they have extra patches compiled and not change the version for kernel Nov 07 07:14:10 RST38h: he/she's having's having problems with files stopping in the middle. I had him/her run chkdsk, not sure if that fixed the problem Nov 07 07:14:13 Whoever's error it is, he should be running the official kernel Nov 07 07:14:29 I think he/she is. Nov 07 07:14:45 We, however, aren't. Nov 07 07:15:37 person in question is xDaReaperx Nov 07 07:16:21 see this : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=18440 Nov 07 07:16:31 that RipTorn guy has the same problem Nov 07 07:16:39 hmm but thats with some other MP Nov 07 07:16:44 ^^ Nov 07 07:17:05 Though, wait... it may be using the same media engine Nov 07 07:17:16 == same underlying player, just a new front end Nov 07 07:17:18 oh Nov 07 07:17:21 ya Nov 07 07:17:27 probably , but i don't know about Canola Nov 07 07:18:28 Before we go any farther, though... did your problem get fixed? Nov 07 07:18:44 no i'm still testing it Nov 07 07:19:02 i'm playing the 3rd song now continuous Nov 07 07:19:13 no stop yet Nov 07 07:19:34 k Nov 07 07:21:38 I'm gonna play some TF2(via Wine! :P) so my responses'll be late. Nov 07 07:21:45 ok Nov 07 07:22:03 if there are any errors i'll paste it here Nov 07 07:23:13 k Nov 07 07:29:13 hi Nov 07 07:30:19 I tried to make a irc.desktop file which I stored in ~/.local/share/applications/hildon and it shows up fine in the "all applications" browser, but when I try "Add shortcut", it is not in the list. Any idea? Nov 07 07:31:32 here's the contents: http://pastebin.com/ApThRdyz Nov 07 07:31:43 oops sorry Nov 07 07:32:47 here: http://pastebin.com/uJxHLbLJ Nov 07 07:48:48 * ilius upgrading maemo5 via Faster Application Manager ... there is 1049 packages!! :-/ Nov 07 07:51:01 Fast App manager is not really fast Nov 07 07:51:21 if it fails to update any catalogs it wont let you install apps Nov 07 07:57:40 xDaReaperx: but no problem for me! Nov 07 07:57:58 xDaReaperx: it updates catalogs Nov 07 07:58:14 i gotta delete some catalogs that dont update Nov 07 07:58:22 like the Mozill beta update catalog Nov 07 07:58:27 Mozilla * Nov 07 08:04:31 Eh... apt-get update & apt-get upgrade are far better than the package manager Nov 07 08:46:50 * ilius update completed successfully via faster application manager Nov 07 08:48:12 that even don't say "don't touch your phone! don't open any application! ..." Nov 07 08:48:26 and not prompt for restart Nov 07 08:50:28 inb4 brick Nov 07 08:52:33 fapman was fast Nov 07 08:52:45 the dev added stuff that wasn't needed Nov 07 08:52:57 like moving package lists to /opt/fapman Nov 07 08:55:42 won't that save space though? Nov 07 08:58:52 ^^ Nov 07 08:59:49 not really, since the package lists are already in /opt/var Nov 07 08:59:59 ah Nov 07 09:00:12 so basically, I have two copies of my lists Nov 07 09:20:16 unf Nov 07 09:20:22 i got ettercap to build for maemo Nov 07 09:20:40 now i just need to test it and submit a package for it Nov 07 09:22:47 Gorroth, Congratulation! Nov 07 09:23:58 thanks Nov 07 09:25:40 oh, i guess i also need to package up libnet Nov 07 09:25:47 but i'll do that after testing Nov 07 09:26:43 Hi , I installed multiboot , after reboot I haven't any option in boot menu , and I see only a 30 sec loop and nothing done . can anyone help me ? Nov 07 09:33:14 morning Nov 07 09:36:07 morning Sivang ... Nov 07 09:36:37 Isn't any help to me ? Nov 07 09:36:46 Short question, does anyone know on the top of his head where the call(er) log is stored? The info which numbers where called or I called ... Nov 07 09:55:58 Morning, all Nov 07 09:56:16 g'evening... Nov 07 10:01:23 modest may suck, but it's easier to set up than the N8's email Nov 07 10:01:26 app Nov 07 10:03:39 * Noobmonk3y wakes up... slightly Nov 07 10:05:29 * MohammadAG pours cold water on Noobmonk3y Nov 07 10:05:36 * Noobmonk3y farts Nov 07 10:06:00 the N8 at least has the option of using profimail though Nov 07 10:06:24 port thunderbird or something Nov 07 10:10:56 hi folks. coulsd you plz tell me what's the theme template to use? I started making themes with madde, but i think "hildon-theme-example-stskeeps-hildon-theme-example-stskeeps-master.tar" is not up do date... I'm good in graphics, but I have not that much coding skills. Could one point me the right direction ? Thank you Nov 07 10:19:41 hmmm,,, no one? Nov 07 10:21:04 no sorry Nov 07 10:25:03 what does off peak and peak mean? Nov 07 10:25:48 MohammadAG: depends on context - usually tarrifs for electricity/phone conntections/etc Nov 07 10:26:03 email Nov 07 10:26:18 fucknoes :) Nov 07 10:26:27 ussualy that means that you can use it cheaper when you don't want to use it Nov 07 10:26:41 jacekowski: for email? Nov 07 10:26:49 yeah Nov 07 10:27:05 maybe he's paying for e-mail traffic on his phone Nov 07 10:28:26 ah - phone/internet tarrif makes sense Nov 07 10:29:13 but probably applies to all internet connections, not just email -- my plan has timings too, for all traffic Nov 07 10:31:10 k, wost email experience on a symbian device goes to the N8 Nov 07 10:31:14 worst Nov 07 10:35:42 Ouch. I'd think the n900'd be worse... Nov 07 10:36:07 considering how much everyone likes to hate on it... Nov 07 10:38:49 RobbieThe1st, I've entered the password about 20 times, it's right, I'm sure of it Nov 07 10:38:55 my email works fine Nov 07 10:38:58 but the N8 isn't mine Nov 07 10:45:10 Hey guys, I've been poking around google and maemo.org a little bit but I can't quite find a straight answer...is there any effort or movement underway to get some version (official or not) of Flash 10.2 on Maemo 5? Nov 07 10:47:02 Well, the leaked version from TI works OOTB if it gets stuck in Nov 07 10:47:29 though, its A, not legally distributable, and B, has no hardware accelleration... so not much better than what we have now Nov 07 10:47:44 Ah, I see Nov 07 10:47:49 TweakFlashSwitcher does wonders for a lot of sites Nov 07 10:47:59 *tweakflashversion Nov 07 10:48:07 Yeah, I was looking at that in some of the threads I've been reading Nov 07 10:48:21 It works. It's good Nov 07 10:48:26 Boycotting flash does even more wonders. Nov 07 10:48:57 Yeah, except then it limits my access to half the web Nov 07 10:49:54 I know there are some 10.2 or 10.1.xxxx versions of flash for some other debian based OSes, so I was kind of curious to see if any effort had gone into recompiling or reverse engineering one of those Nov 07 10:50:09 BJ_Covert_Action: that's some strange web you've got there... Nov 07 10:51:10 Well maybe not half the web, but half the web I access at least...I visit a lot of motorcycle sites...and some others, and a lot of those like to build their primary interfaces in flash Nov 07 10:52:32 * timeless_mbp frowns Nov 07 10:52:36 there's a flash 10.2?? Nov 07 10:52:51 I thought TI was demoing 10.1 Nov 07 10:53:01 This week I got curious faces on a couple of colleagues because I'm still using PERL (Mason) + CGIs on my websites ... Nov 07 10:53:09 lol Nov 07 10:53:15 peb: because it works and stuff? Nov 07 10:53:42 BJ_Covert_Action: so um Nov 07 10:53:49 Flash is *not* open source Nov 07 10:53:49 timeless_mbp: the statement was, no one does Perl/cgi websites at this times. my response was: I do, and it works ... Nov 07 10:53:54 it isn't remotely close to open source Nov 07 10:54:04 reverse engineering it is really not on the table in the civilized world Nov 07 10:54:12 gnash Nov 07 10:54:14 but if you want to steal something Nov 07 10:54:18 please don't ask for help here? Nov 07 10:54:37 as for whether vendors (Nokia) are working on providing a newer version of flash... Nov 07 10:54:38 There -is- gnash, but it's not good enough quite yet, even on the desktop Nov 07 10:54:42 that's a question for Marketing Nov 07 10:54:54 RobbieThe1st: there's an understatement if i ever saw one Nov 07 10:55:02 I was just trying to get a feel for what is out there timeless, that's all Nov 07 10:55:03 does it support flash 7 yet? Nov 07 10:55:29 * ruskie is glad he doesn't need flash for any sites Nov 07 10:55:36 BJ_Covert_Action: the fact that you couldn't get a straight answer from maemo.org should make the answer pretty clear Nov 07 10:55:42 no one who knows is allowed to give one Nov 07 10:55:53 and yes, i'm annoyed Nov 07 10:56:02 Well I never found any threads asking the question directly Nov 07 10:56:10 i actually got direct correspondence from TI asking me to remind people that the TI binaries were for Vendors to test Nov 07 10:56:13 not for End users Nov 07 10:56:16 I just stumbled on some where it was brought up as a side topic Nov 07 10:56:41 generally speaking Nokia doesn't make public commitments it isn't absolutely certain it can keep Nov 07 10:56:42 I'm not sure - I tried using it to play an animated video - It ended up with a highly variable framerate: It would go really slow for some scenes, then run a lot faster for others, ending up with the audio out of sync and it looking like someone with an old projector cranking it by hand Nov 07 10:56:54 because if you do make commitments to customers, and you don't keep them.... Nov 07 10:56:57 customers get annoyed Nov 07 10:57:11 RobbieThe1st: nice Nov 07 10:57:34 from an engineering perspective, and from the perspective of people who actually use our own products Nov 07 10:57:39 we'd love to see 10.1 out there Nov 07 10:57:55 but we obviously can't endorse theft Nov 07 10:57:57 or leaks Nov 07 10:57:58 or ... Nov 07 10:58:06 murder? Nov 07 10:58:10 well, that might be ok Nov 07 10:58:15 Yea Nov 07 10:58:19 but only paper pushers Nov 07 10:58:30 Definately Nov 07 10:58:36 I was just asking to see, Flash and a few other things have given me headaches on Linux OSes before Nov 07 10:58:54 So before I take the plunge and dump $400 on an N900, I want to see what I will and won't be able to do with it Nov 07 10:58:59 That's an understatement Nov 07 10:59:12 BJ_Covert_Action: flash has better integration on mobile than most desktop linux's Nov 07 10:59:12 Eh, one, you can get one for $300 or so. Nov 07 10:59:20 it happens to be slightly dated at this point Nov 07 10:59:27 used on ebay, yeah...I haven't seen new ones for that low Nov 07 10:59:31 but it's 9.5 codec level, not 9.0 iirc Nov 07 10:59:31 I realize that Nov 07 10:59:46 And, I find that with flash switcher youtube works great Nov 07 10:59:48 i'm not sure how many sites are annoying enough to require newer Nov 07 10:59:53 but I am not particularly worried about new and flashy (no pun intended) as long as it plays nice with some of the things I want to use it for Nov 07 11:00:05 but keep in mind that sites that ask for 10.1 probably ask for a cpu that's 5x more powerful than your n900 Nov 07 11:00:06 Most do, but using a version-changer fixes everything I have seen Nov 07 11:00:08 that's good to know, thanks Robbie Nov 07 11:00:13 so just giving them 10.1 won't magically fix things Nov 07 11:00:17 if only one person could get a license to distribute it Nov 07 11:00:26 MohammadAG: got 10million USD handy? Nov 07 11:00:31 i'm pretty sure it could be arranged Nov 07 11:00:35 not quite sure that's enough... Nov 07 11:00:36 timeless_mbp: Isn't flash 10.1 supposed to be hardware-accelerated? Nov 07 11:00:41 yeah, just a sec... Nov 07 11:00:50 MohammadAG: no hurry, you can get back to me ;-) Nov 07 11:00:51 RobbieThe1st, on desktops, yes Nov 07 11:01:01 What about on Android? Nov 07 11:01:03 RobbieThe1st: sure, bring your own engineers to do the acceleration Nov 07 11:01:07 actually, on desktops with windows Nov 07 11:01:19 RobbieThe1st, not accelerated on android Nov 07 11:01:19 Adobe won't release it to platforms w/o the acceleration implementation Nov 07 11:01:22 if it's missing, no go Nov 07 11:01:23 Meh, I've gotten 10.1 running on an old laptop with Puppy Linux that has worse hardware than the N900...it's slow, but usable Nov 07 11:01:54 companies for some reason seem to want an image that shows _quality_ Nov 07 11:02:07 not just the ability to deliver useless buggy crap Nov 07 11:02:15 (not sure why, i mean everyone loves crap, right?) Nov 07 11:02:37 timeless_mbp: adobe missed that boat a long time ago Nov 07 11:02:41 sometimes, crap is indeed preferable to nothing Nov 07 11:02:46 Problem is, they end up with failing crap, instead of buggy crap Nov 07 11:03:02 nidO: it's all about who's observing Nov 07 11:03:15 adobe doesn't sell to users Nov 07 11:03:23 it sells to devs and vendors Nov 07 11:03:32 timeless_mbp, though the problem here isn't adobe is it... Nov 07 11:03:33 vendors want to know that the content they create will look the same everywhere Nov 07 11:03:46 MohammadAG: i haven't seen the contract Nov 07 11:04:01 i don't absolutely _know_ that adobe can't release its own 10.1 for maemo Nov 07 11:04:02 timeless_mbp: that implies that the content they create will LOOK everywhere Nov 07 11:04:16 kerio: content is inanimate Nov 07 11:04:21 so i don't think it implies anything of the kind =b Nov 07 11:04:26 heh Nov 07 11:04:53 animated content aside :o Nov 07 11:04:59 Adobe Air would be nice Nov 07 11:05:07 i'm still waiting for Silverlight Nov 07 11:05:18 oh god Nov 07 11:05:18 Nokia made the mistake of announcing it w/ Microsoft a while back Nov 07 11:05:19 ms crap? Nov 07 11:05:27 hey, they *promised* it! Nov 07 11:05:35 i wanted to watch the olympics Nov 07 11:05:35 Silverlight's nice Nov 07 11:05:39 didn't they promise 10.1 too? Nov 07 11:05:42 but no, someone dropped the ball Nov 07 11:05:47 MohammadAG: url? Nov 07 11:05:52 i can find urls for silverlight Nov 07 11:06:08 timeless_mbp: http://madshakespeare.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/calvin-and-hobbes.jpg Nov 07 11:06:10 timeless_mbp, for? Nov 07 11:06:34 oh wow Nov 07 11:06:41 MohammadAG: a promise Nov 07 11:07:13 http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/213678.asp Nov 07 11:07:15 * timeless_mbp boggles Nov 07 11:07:23 apparently ms actually lived up to their promise Nov 07 11:07:34 > Microsoft has released Silverlight, its Adobe Flash competitor, to manufacturers for Nokia's Symbian operating system. That means developers can now deploy Silverlight applications on the popular mobile platform. The technology is available at the Ovi store for Nokia S60 fifth-edition devices. Nov 07 11:07:38 > Posted by Nick Eaton at July 6, 2010 1:15 p.m. Nov 07 11:07:48 * timeless_mbp totally missed that Nov 07 11:07:54 >symbian Nov 07 11:08:00 >dead Nov 07 11:08:09 so nokia fullfilled its promise Nov 07 11:08:27 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-nokia-to-port-silverlight-to-symbian-phones/1236 is a ref to the commitment Nov 07 11:08:35 maybeArgh: i'm as shocked as you are Nov 07 11:08:42 I wonder about darklight... Nov 07 11:09:01 or moonlight, whatever the OSS clone is Nov 07 11:09:06 moonlight. Nov 07 11:09:06 moonlight Nov 07 11:09:14 kerio: i'm quite happy to see it die Nov 07 11:09:18 but being dead isn't relevant Nov 07 11:09:25 miguel de icaza is a douche Nov 07 11:09:26 being able to keep a commitment is and was my point Nov 07 11:09:33 and surprisingly enough, they actually managed to do it Nov 07 11:09:42 * timeless_mbp wonders where silverlight for the n900 is Nov 07 11:09:50 what is this n900 you speak of Nov 07 11:09:51 > Microsoft and Nokia also will port Silverlight to Nokia Series 40 and Internet tablet devices, Microsoft said. Nov 07 11:09:58 i'm not sure anybody at nokia has ever heard of this n900 Nov 07 11:10:05 well, the n900 is an "internet tablet device", of course :) Nov 07 11:10:35 maybeArgh: i met ~10 nokians this past week Nov 07 11:10:50 most of whom work in areas outside maemo-meego Nov 07 11:10:59 and most of them had or where rather familiar w/ n900s Nov 07 11:11:05 is writing to /sys possible with QFile? Nov 07 11:11:11 don't tell nokia management Nov 07 11:11:13 you might get them in trouble Nov 07 11:11:18 the original plan was supposedly to have silverlight support by meego 1.1, did that ever happen? Nov 07 11:11:20 maybeArgh: heh Nov 07 11:11:41 MohammadAG: do you want to be in #maemo-qt or #qt-maemo ? Nov 07 11:11:44 or just #qt? Nov 07 11:12:33 timeless_mbp: plenty of people have been asking questions about Qt Nov 07 11:12:35 timeless_mbp: with or without a ##? Nov 07 11:12:42 timeless_mbp: and frankly, I think it's fair game. Nov 07 11:12:46 timeless_mbp, I'm shocked to see that "where" from the minister of english composition :) Nov 07 11:13:00 Okay, I have another general maemo question: How does Maemo handle connecting to WPA encrypted networks? Is it relatively straight forward or does one have to manually hack around with WPA supplicant or something similar? Nov 07 11:13:26 works out of the box with my n900 at least Nov 07 11:13:28 wpa2 works fine, wpa is flaky Nov 07 11:13:37 timeless_mbp, I found the people there to be quite less helpful than the ones here Nov 07 11:14:33 MohammadAG, writing to /sys branches is the same no matter what framework you use - its permissions based Nov 07 11:14:34 crashanddie: *eep*, *shame* Nov 07 11:14:41 although i do only get rather underwhelming performance with my wifi network at home, but that may very well by my router's fault Nov 07 11:14:42 http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplatform/2010/06/flash_player_101_for_mobile_av.html#comment-1336 looks like Adobe is blaming Nokia Nov 07 11:14:51 lcuk, ty Nov 07 11:14:52 oh well. blame nokia, please do so by complaining to Nokia Care Nov 07 11:15:02 I'm thinking of getting rid of system()s Nov 07 11:15:04 nidO: what about WPA2 Personal Mixed? Doesn't that run a combination of WPA 2 and WPA? Or something like that? Does that run flaky? Nov 07 11:15:06 include an actual site you can't use because it requires Flash 10.1 Nov 07 11:15:16 BJ_Covert_Action: that's what i run at the moment Nov 07 11:15:36 providing a test site is not useful as it's liable to get you ignored as a troll Nov 07 11:15:36 system("echo hostf > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode"); doesn't look like it's the right way(TM) Nov 07 11:15:47 MohammadAG: lol Nov 07 11:15:59 BJ_Covert_Action: works well, but i "only" get around 400-500kbyte/sec transfer rates Nov 07 11:16:12 maybeArgh: okay, well it sounds like it's easier to work with than my outdated laptop and my outdated network cards on Ubuntu then... Nov 07 11:16:36 MohammadAG, since that runs in same scope as your app you could of course try an alternative Nov 07 11:16:42 basically all i had to do on the n900 was show available wifi networks, pick mine, enter key, be happy Nov 07 11:16:53 make intermediate scripts which are added to sudo Nov 07 11:16:54 hmmm, hopefully I can add my N900 to my NAT and streamline more data throughput than that for it... Nov 07 11:16:58 then called with system () :P Nov 07 11:17:37 lcuk, doesn't system() launch a separate shell each time you call it? Nov 07 11:17:45 timeless_mbp: Maemo is already pretty much extinct as a project. If we can't help this community veer into something logical (a "community", perhaps), we might as well just shut the channel and website down right away. I think it's been a long time since Maemo handled almost any Linux-based portable paraphernalia. Nov 07 11:17:51 MohammadAG, sure Nov 07 11:18:00 lcuk, then it's not memory effecient Nov 07 11:18:03 efficient even Nov 07 11:18:13 MohammadAG: how long are these calls? Nov 07 11:18:31 MohammadAG: if it lasts only a second or two, memory efficiency is relative. Nov 07 11:19:44 crashanddie, it's only an echo Nov 07 11:19:55 wouldn't QFile be better anyways? Nov 07 11:19:55 by the way... that kind of wifi transfer rates are you guys getting? because 500kbyte/sec doesn't appear to be that much... Nov 07 11:20:01 the echo needs root surely Nov 07 11:20:20 the whole app is launched as root ShadowJK Nov 07 11:20:25 I get over megabyte/s with scp. would be faster without the encryption Nov 07 11:20:34 Hey guys, would you mind giving this user's topic a look over? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65204&page=3 He seems to be having problems with a reboot loop after flashing Nov 07 11:20:44 ShadowJK, everything hostmode related needs root :) Nov 07 11:20:45 MohammadAG: then no perm problems Nov 07 11:21:06 crashanddie, I'm not worried about those, but I'm just wondering if QFile would be better than system() Nov 07 11:21:19 Alright, well thanks for the info guys, I'll probably be back a few more times before I buy something Nov 07 11:21:22 MohammadAG: well, it depends how you treat your code Nov 07 11:21:49 MohammadAG: I don't know the under-the-hood logic of QFile, but I'm guessing it's pretty straight forward C (or C++) underneath. Nov 07 11:22:47 MohammadAG: so, just do a quick benchmark, open a file 100 times and write, flush buffers and close. Do it once in QFile, once with system Nov 07 11:23:43 if you can't be bothered to do a benchmark like that, just use QFile and mark in your code that "At the time of writing, I'm not sure whether QFile is the fastest option here, but at least it's pure Qt code. Alternatives would be system() call to shell script" Nov 07 11:25:05 lcuk: those echo cmds are deprecated for userland anyway. You should have a script (let's call it jrbme) which is part of sudoers, and you call that script by "sudo jrbme --stopbme --vboost on --hostf", and that's it Nov 07 11:26:00 DocScrutinizer, sure, thats the sort of thing i meant. the adding to sudoers is the important part tho Nov 07 11:26:28 DocScrutinizer: it's not userland, considering that it's an app calling it -- it's just helper functions wrapped in a different language Nov 07 11:26:38 no, the correct script and complete system design is the important part Nov 07 11:27:12 crashanddie: an app isn't userland? what?? Nov 07 11:28:40 DocScrutinizer, making scripts for all functions of hostmode is worse than launching the whole app as root Nov 07 11:28:48 lcuk: if jrbme is started instead of bme on system startup, then you don't need any suduers entry Nov 07 11:29:22 it's launched as root anyways (if launched by upstart or whatever it's called (init?)) Nov 07 11:29:23 DocScrutinizer: sorry, thought jrbme was just a script that included all the logic to echo 1> to differnet files Nov 07 11:32:04 k, me's away again, as I'm repeating myself here, and I took a way off to chill Nov 07 11:32:34 s/way/week/ Nov 07 11:32:34 DocScrutinizer meant: k, me's aweek again, as I'm repeating myself here, and I took a way off to chill Nov 07 11:33:04 s/ way/ week/ Nov 07 11:33:05 DocScrutinizer meant: k, me's away again, as I'm repeating myself here, and I took a week off to chill Nov 07 11:34:11 DocScrutinizer: take care Nov 07 11:46:44 anyway, going to spain to buy fags Nov 07 11:46:45 later Nov 07 11:51:31 Get me some Nov 07 11:51:33 :) Nov 07 12:04:02 unggh. snowing... Nov 07 12:04:45 in HEL? Nov 07 12:04:46 wah Nov 07 12:04:55 * timeless_mbp doesn't have snowboots @LYS Nov 07 12:05:03 * timeless_mbp left them @HEL thinking they were deadweight Nov 07 12:05:56 afternoon Nov 07 12:06:29 someone would be so nice to help me re-activate the swap partition after i screwed it up? :) Nov 07 12:10:47 MohammadAG: ping Nov 07 12:10:52 ehrm pong Nov 07 12:12:23 Anyone had any problems installing i2c-tools recently? Nov 07 12:13:17 swapon: /dev/mmcblk0p3: Invalid argument -> anyone could help me solving this, please? Nov 07 12:13:29 Necc: go ahead make my day! Nov 07 12:13:48 Necc: no ":" Nov 07 12:14:31 there's no ':' Nov 07 12:14:44 [~]# swapon /dev/mmcblk0p3 Nov 07 12:14:44 swapon: /dev/mmcblk0p3: Invalid argument Nov 07 12:15:06 same happens when i type also "swapon -a" Nov 07 12:15:57 digging /usr/bin/genfstab.awk if i may screwed up something, but no luck so far Nov 07 12:20:34 also here's the partition table: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4469013/temp/pt_table Nov 07 12:24:26 Necc: a .bin? Nov 07 12:25:14 Necc: is there a mmcblk0p3? Nov 07 12:25:56 erm ok browser is dump Nov 07 12:26:26 doh if you need extension, it is a .txt Nov 07 12:27:05 also i followed description of: http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash#Solution_.237:_arbitrary_size_for_.2Fhome_and_MyDocs_.28PR_1.2.2F3_compatible.29 Nov 07 12:27:24 hm. should mp-fremantle-generic-pr=20.2010.36-2 be installed on my N900 with PR1.3? Nov 07 12:28:20 Necc: did you mkswap? Nov 07 12:28:23 "mp-fremantle-generic-pr is already the newest version." -> nop Nov 07 12:28:50 Necc: so you have it installed..? Do an apt-cache policy :) Nov 07 12:29:08 nop, not made mkswap :/ Nov 07 12:29:19 done, working :D Nov 07 12:29:29 Necc: you are welcome Nov 07 12:29:37 thx :) Nov 07 12:30:02 damn i forgot so many linux commands since school... i tought it is auto-formatted Nov 07 12:30:46 muelli: i installed PR1.3 via reflash from the zero (fiasco+vanilla) and not just tried to install it Nov 07 12:31:26 Necc: I don't get it. What does apt-cache policy mp-fremantle-generic-pr say? Nov 07 12:32:22 Installed: 20.2010.36-2 Nov 07 12:32:30 i think you look for this line only Nov 07 12:32:43 hm Nov 07 12:33:50 it breaks for me: The following packages have unmet dependencies: mp-fremantle-generic-pr: Depends: libsdl-mixer1.2 (= 1:1.2.6-5+0m5) Nov 07 12:34:47 can i ask another question? after executing the command: "tracker-processes -r" the default image viewer goes insane, and i loose the abilities to: 1) filter 2) open images from the file browser (it says "unable to open non-local images") Nov 07 12:34:48 Necc: what is the full output of apt-cache policy libsdl-mixer1.2? I.e. does it list 1:1.2.6-5+0m5+ogg+mp3 from http://repository.maemo.org? Nov 07 12:35:38 libsdl-mixer1.2: Nov 07 12:35:38 Installed: 1:1.2.6-5+0m5 Nov 07 12:35:38 Candidate: 1:1.2.6-5+0m5+ogg+mp3 Nov 07 12:36:13 Version table: Nov 07 12:36:13 1:1.2.6-5+0m5+ogg+mp3 0 Nov 07 12:36:13 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages Nov 07 12:36:13 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages Nov 07 12:36:13 *** 1:1.2.6-5+0m5 0 Nov 07 12:40:04 hmmmmmm Nov 07 12:40:16 am i right in thinking the latest qt creator etc uses 4.6? Nov 07 12:41:33 oh no... 4.7.0 Nov 07 12:41:35 hmmmmmmmm Nov 07 12:43:42 Noobmonk3y, update if you're on 4.6 Nov 07 12:43:51 trying to figure out how too! Nov 07 12:44:01 help -> start updater Nov 07 12:44:22 no option in qtcreator? Nov 07 12:45:11 that is in Qt Creator :P Nov 07 12:45:36 its not in mine :| Nov 07 12:46:04 contents, index, context help, about qt creator, about plugins Nov 07 12:46:07 thats all i have under help Nov 07 12:47:00 i think the creator is fine, but under options and qt versions i have QT for fremantle PR1.2Device, i assume i need PR1.3 devices Nov 07 12:47:15 how did you install it? Nov 07 12:47:28 erm, can't remember, but downloaded from the nokia site i assume Nov 07 12:47:36 so hey Nov 07 12:47:49 Nokia Qt SDK? Nov 07 12:47:56 yup Nov 07 12:48:06 Noobmonk3y, http://i52.tinypic.com/sl5p53.jpg Nov 07 12:48:19 Moh.... me not got that :| Nov 07 12:48:38 you iz hated Nov 07 12:55:18 MohammadAG: http://www.screencast.com/users/noobmonkey/folders/Jing/media/35725020-8e6a-4b31-b160-89c45f638c02 Nov 07 12:56:56 * Noobmonk3y = fail Nov 07 12:57:18 i even had two extra rashers of bacon this morning, and i still fail! Nov 07 12:59:24 how can i install pyqt? Nov 07 12:59:36 its a new version now yeah? Nov 07 12:59:45 Noobmonk3y, mm Nov 07 12:59:56 lcuk, MohammadAG -> http://www.screencast.com/users/noobmonkey/folders/Jing/media/b5dda07f-bf99-4f28-b0fe-c2619a689496 Nov 07 13:00:04 thats what makes me think i am made of fail :( Nov 07 13:00:07 i cant watch screencast, on battery Nov 07 13:00:22 lol Nov 07 13:00:26 its just a picture Nov 07 13:00:28 :P Nov 07 13:03:36 Noobmonk3y, thats a bit worrysome Nov 07 13:03:42 :| :| Nov 07 13:03:48 do i have a borked sdk? Nov 07 13:04:07 QTCreator V 2.0.1 Nov 07 13:04:35 how can i install pyqt? Nov 07 13:04:49 version 4.7 now? Nov 07 13:04:56 pr1.3 Nov 07 13:04:59 Noobmonk3y, no you just have one thats a bit out of date, but the windows update might not have been updated yet Nov 07 13:05:19 repos just have version 4.6 for pr1.2 Nov 07 13:06:19 hm Nov 07 13:06:56 mc_teo: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61745 Nov 07 13:07:03 looks like it is in extras devel Nov 07 13:07:18 lcuk: so i am destined for qt fail :( Nov 07 13:07:59 mc_teo: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52862&highlight=PYQT+4.7 <--- i'm assuming the new one installs the same way as the old one? Nov 07 13:09:47 lcuk: http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/downloads <-- looks like the latest framework for maemo is 4.6.2? Nov 07 13:11:44 Noobmonk3y: windows? Nov 07 13:11:48 yeah Nov 07 13:11:49 win 7 Nov 07 13:11:55 i know my windows Nov 07 13:12:01 :P Nov 07 13:12:04 whats the problem Nov 07 13:12:26 ^^ wondering why it seems that my qtcreator is running on 4.6.2 Nov 07 13:12:29 i have all the QT designer setup on my vista Nov 07 13:12:31 put screenshots above Nov 07 13:12:42 okay, ill look Nov 07 13:12:45 cheers :) :) Nov 07 13:13:11 it compiles and runs fine atm, but i wanna use the new qt stuff :) Nov 07 13:14:06 Hi Nov 07 13:14:08 is QT only for touch devices ? Nov 07 13:14:14 qt Nov 07 13:14:26 nope Nov 07 13:15:13 its a GUI framework for any mainstream OS that uses a GUI Nov 07 13:15:17 xDaReaperx: it works fine on normal windows, linux etc Nov 07 13:15:34 Noobmonk3y: how did you install it? Nov 07 13:15:56 since it seems to be installed in a non standard location Nov 07 13:16:00 from here -> i think http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/downloads Nov 07 13:16:02 Oh okay Nov 07 13:16:05 ty Nov 07 13:16:13 non standard? eeeek Nov 07 13:16:14 mine just installed in C:\Python26 Nov 07 13:16:46 well pyQt or Qt? Nov 07 13:16:51 qt :P Nov 07 13:16:55 ah Nov 07 13:17:07 pyqt works fine, but translating my app into qt ;) Nov 07 13:18:23 from here: http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/downloads which one did you get? Nov 07 13:18:42 Qt SDK for Windows* (322 MB) Nov 07 13:20:31 maybe i shoulda got the nokia qt one :| Nov 07 13:21:01 brb 5 mins, phone Nov 07 13:25:34 folks, I'm not able to ssh into the N900 with 'user' as account. I've setup authorizedkeys2. I get connection refused on attempt. Nov 07 13:25:53 need to look in as root and with the pass you setup when you installed it Nov 07 13:26:00 s/look/log Nov 07 13:26:29 jacktheripper, um, is sshd running? Nov 07 13:26:32 connection refused doesn't sound like its an auth error, its probably because sshd isn't started Nov 07 13:26:50 it's started of course, I can connect through root. Nov 07 13:26:56 yeah, or connecting to the wrong IP Nov 07 13:26:59 isnt there an uberlog parameter you can pass to ssh Nov 07 13:27:12 ssh -dddddddddd or something Nov 07 13:27:30 actually, it's connection closed Nov 07 13:27:32 not refused Nov 07 13:27:38 just that, no connection established. Nov 07 13:27:50 Anybody knows why apt-get does not work with extras-testing in scratchbox? It says cannot parse package list. Nov 07 13:28:00 so you can connect through root meaning that you can login as root user? Nov 07 13:28:11 psycho_oreos, yes Nov 07 13:28:53 jacktheripper: you must not have the default "!" (or whatever) in etc/passwd for pwhash Nov 07 13:29:03 this only happens when I have the key in authorized_keys2. Otherwise it prompts for the non-existing password. Nov 07 13:29:15 DocScrutinizer, I did 'passwd -u user' earlier Nov 07 13:29:35 oh pwhash Nov 07 13:29:37 also why use authorized_keys2 ? Nov 07 13:29:59 I just followed a tutorial on a site, it used dsa encryption. Nov 07 13:30:31 I don't have pwhash in my /etc/passwd. Nov 07 13:30:55 authorized_keys2 and authorized_key both have correct permissions. Nov 07 13:31:09 nowadays that's just authorized_keys Nov 07 13:31:30 okay, I'll try rsa encryption now. Nov 07 13:31:39 authorized_keys2 is obsolete nonsense Nov 07 13:32:57 ssh-dss AAAAB3NzaC1kc3MAAA... .ssh/authorized_keys Nov 07 13:33:01 WFM Nov 07 13:35:29 jacktheripper: and your ~ mustn't be world readable iirc Nov 07 13:35:48 meamo got that wrong usually Nov 07 13:35:57 connected!, after using rsa with authorized_keys Nov 07 13:36:00 thanks a lot Nov 07 13:57:20 Researchers Race To Recover Radioactive Rabbits! Nov 07 13:58:18 "Because the number of contaminated droppings being discovered on-site has decreased, officials now believe it's possible that just one rabbit might have been contaminated and they now are finding old droppings from it." Nov 07 14:11:53 Sweet, host mode is working quite nicely now :) Nov 07 14:13:29 alterego, thanks for testing it, and thanks to PaulFertser for the patches :) Nov 07 14:14:19 Would you like me to work on getting auto mounting to work? Nov 07 14:14:30 With tracker ignore as we discussed yesterday? Nov 07 14:14:57 alterego: with ke_recv? Nov 07 14:15:09 I was thinking udev .. Nov 07 14:15:20 alterego: wth you're all running ke_recv then? Nov 07 14:15:44 (you == maemo users) Nov 07 14:16:02 :) Nov 07 14:16:15 PaulFertser, heh, [16:08:19] paul mentioned ke-recv Nov 07 14:16:44 Hrm. Nov 07 14:17:08 So, what is ke-recv supposed to do? Nov 07 14:17:23 alterego: i think an honest user should either disable ke-recv altogether and use udev solely, or use ke-recv. Nov 07 14:17:37 alterego: no idea, luckily i'm not a maemo user. Nov 07 14:17:47 Paul: You are not? Nov 07 14:17:50 Poor thing... Nov 07 14:17:52 What are you using then? :P Nov 07 14:18:15 RST38h: i even landed the device to a friend after completing the hostmode work (yesterday) because i'm so fed up with it. Nov 07 14:18:28 alterego: i'm using debian on Freerunner. Nov 07 14:18:32 Ah Nov 07 14:18:41 Paul: DOn't forget reporting this to Quim Gil Nov 07 14:18:53 Paul: As he is responsible for tracking dev units Nov 07 14:18:55 lended Nov 07 14:19:28 alterego, run ke-recv-test at Nov 07 14:19:32 Paul:And what made it so much worse than using debian on Freerunner, where you are not even sure you can answer an incoming call with emacs? =) Nov 07 14:19:48 quim gil is still alive? Nov 07 14:19:53 Oh, interesting. Nov 07 14:20:00 RST38h: the problem with FR is not emacs or debian, it's inside FSO. Nov 07 14:20:21 RST38h: Quim didn't ever require me to do anything wrt this dev unit. Nov 07 14:20:21 Paul: But that was not my question. Nov 07 14:20:25 back Nov 07 14:20:32 Paul: YOu should still report this to Quim. Nov 07 14:20:43 hi guys, i have a lot of big issues with PR 1.3 ... is it possible to back to PR 1.2 ? Nov 07 14:20:58 yes Nov 07 14:21:00 RST38h: hm, can you please explain me why should i? Nov 07 14:21:23 but when i try, a havn't cellular phone .. Nov 07 14:21:28 Paul: Because it is a developer unit given by Nokia to developers and tracker internally at Nokia Nov 07 14:21:46 vit0 what problems are you actually having Nov 07 14:21:49 Paul: If they lose track of it, the last person who they have data on becomes the responsible party Nov 07 14:21:54 RST38h: if that (tracking) is important, why didn't he tell me anything about it? Nov 07 14:21:57 Paul: That person is you. Nov 07 14:22:11 Paul: No, back to my original question, if you will... Nov 07 14:22:28 s/No/Now Nov 07 14:22:33 i have prolbems with sms, arnt accesible... and the signal incrase ( sorry im french ) Nov 07 14:22:37 RST38h: so i'm responsible. I gave it to my sister but i'm still responsible for it. Nov 07 14:22:51 Paul: Of course you are. As I said, it is a developer unit Nov 07 14:23:01 RST38h: that person *is* paul, as he lend it to somebody, which means he still has responsibility for it Nov 07 14:23:01 RST38h: ok, what's your original question? Sorry, i got lost here. Nov 07 14:23:14 vito prob best to backup - flash your emmc, and then reflash 1.3 Nov 07 14:23:25 Paul: It was lended to meand then to you by Nokia to do software development, believe it or not Nov 07 14:23:49 Paul:And what made it so much worse than using debian on Freerunner, where you are not even sure you can answer an incoming call with emacs? =) Nov 07 14:23:57 (that was my original question) Nov 07 14:23:59 nidO : Mes sms s'effaces et ne sont pas consultable pour certain contacte. Les sms sont en attente d'envoie. Nov 07 14:24:09 nidO : My sms is cleared and are not available for certain contacts. Sms are waiting to send. Nov 07 14:24:13 sorry Nov 07 14:24:27 vit0: do what i said, flash your emmc, and then reflash to 1.3 Nov 07 14:24:40 yes with vanilla Nov 07 14:24:53 oh! Nov 07 14:24:55 you have already? Nov 07 14:25:00 RST38h: ah, i'm not able to use even telephony on it because ofono is not ready and much other functionality important for a smartphone is missing. Nov 07 14:25:01 i allready flash my phone 3 times ... Nov 07 14:25:05 4 with now Nov 07 14:25:07 + the vanilla emmc? Nov 07 14:25:10 woah thats not good Nov 07 14:25:14 yes Nov 07 14:25:27 does it work fine before you re-install all your apps? Nov 07 14:25:34 or is it broken straight after a reflash? Nov 07 14:25:46 no broken after reflash .. Nov 07 14:25:49 wow Nov 07 14:25:55 RST38h: so that's a choice between using something that mostly works (my FR) vs something that's totally not ready (ofono + plenty of stuff nobody prepared yet as contacts, resource management etc etc). Nov 07 14:26:03 sounds more like a nokia repair issue ;) Nov 07 14:26:04 Paul: Really? How come I am able to receive and make calls withN900 just fine? :) Nov 07 14:26:18 when i receve a sms, in messagin pannel i have a new sms, but no name and i can't open ... Nov 07 14:26:36 RST38h: you just do not mind using proprietary stuff for that while i do. Nov 07 14:26:40 sounds like the sqlitedb may be corrupt Nov 07 14:26:54 Paul: Ahhahahaha Nov 07 14:26:59 maybe, but why after flash ? Nov 07 14:27:34 Paul: You do understand that the design of the toilet bowl in your restroom is patented, and so are materials most of the plumbing is made of? Nov 07 14:27:50 Paul: And the toilet paper has got a few proprietary patents on it too? Nov 07 14:28:03 RST38h: software is not patentable in most sane jurisdictions and that makes hell of a difference. Nov 07 14:28:05 Paul: Do you already see where it is going? :) Nov 07 14:28:18 Noobmonk3y : For example, I just reflash my N900, I get the sms normal, but after 30 sms I have the same bugs on contact. Nov 07 14:28:20 vit0: good point Nov 07 14:28:29 that sounds really odd Nov 07 14:28:38 corrupt memory though(Ie n900 memory) Nov 07 14:28:39 Paul: Well, you did notsay patented, you said proprietary Nov 07 14:28:44 could be causing it Nov 07 14:28:45 bbll Nov 07 14:28:51 or the n900 image was corrupted slightly? Nov 07 14:28:52 And, hell, a lot of stuff you are using is proprietary Nov 07 14:28:55 you two having this conversation even relies on a lot of propietary software Nov 07 14:28:55 did you check the md5? Nov 07 14:29:03 nid0: exactly Nov 07 14:29:11 Every single router.... Nov 07 14:29:12 PaulFertser: alterego: aiui ke-rcv is about menus and auto-UNmounting e.g. uSD at opening the back cover Nov 07 14:29:29 RST38h: anyway, you're not dragging me into a political discussion again, if you have something to say about the hostmode or ke-recv, i'm all ears, otherwise, sorry. You most probably know what i'd answer anyway. Nov 07 14:30:23 Noobmonk3y : the md5 is ok, you think tue memory was corrupted ? ... i have this probleme since PR 1.3... and the signal is bad too .. Nov 07 14:30:35 DocScrutinizer: still, that's a daemon always running and capable of mounting devices as the appear. Nov 07 14:30:38 alterego: hostmode urgently needs proper sync; umount; as well, prior to disabling hostmode. See "safely remove" function on desktops like KDE Nov 07 14:30:56 DocScrutinizer: it listens to kernel events wrt new devices and so seems to be a natural place. Nov 07 14:31:07 well, after a full reflash, the only possible issues i'd suggest are either something stayed on the device causing a problem (not likely with emmc reflash) or hardware, so possibly corrupt storage Nov 07 14:31:11 PaulFertser: full ack Nov 07 14:31:59 Noobmonk3y : so whats the solution ? Nov 07 14:32:19 vit0: Wish i knew :( unless someone like DocScrutinizer has a clever idea, probably Nokia Care Nov 07 14:32:37 ;) Nov 07 14:32:47 Paul: Thanks anyway, you provided enough entertainment for today :) Nov 07 14:33:37 Noobmonk3y : :( ... thanks a lot my friend ! Nov 07 14:33:44 good luck! :) Nov 07 14:33:50 will keep thinking about it, but is very odd Nov 07 14:34:14 DocScrutinizer: after a full flash + emmc flash.. the device is still bugger, can it be anything other then corrupt storage? Nov 07 14:34:24 or something else just as random Nov 07 14:34:36 RST38h: i'm ok with being a clown but the way you put it is somewhat offensive. Nov 07 14:34:40 Noobmonk3y : who, my friend have the same issues since PR1.3 .. ?! Nov 07 14:34:45 Noobmonk3y: borked CAL or badblocks mgmt Nov 07 14:35:10 PR 1.3 UK variant still not available? Nov 07 14:35:10 muhahaha Nov 07 14:35:24 solution: nokia care? (doc?) Nov 07 14:35:26 Watching DVDs works now Nov 07 14:35:47 Noobmonk3y: what's the exactl problem? Nov 07 14:35:48 MohammadAG: you are so 90's lol... been watching dvd's for a while now Nov 07 14:36:16 on the N900? Ha! Nov 07 14:36:23 vit0: - can you explain it again for Doc Nov 07 14:36:24 please Nov 07 14:36:36 they work fine for me :| Nov 07 14:36:41 rip and play meh Nov 07 14:37:08 oke lets go ( wait i try with google traduc ... ) Nov 07 14:37:14 w00000p Nov 07 14:37:22 Noobmonk3y, no, I meant DVDs, directly Nov 07 14:37:29 as in DVD discs, as in hostmode Nov 07 14:37:37 ohhhhhhhhhhh Nov 07 14:37:38 geek Nov 07 14:37:40 ;) Nov 07 14:37:52 impressive though Nov 07 14:38:09 the problem with hostmode for me, the only place i would use it is home, and i have a pc for that lol ;) Nov 07 14:38:12 while it's externally powered, what prevents you from connecting a battery? Nov 07 14:38:31 Noobmonk3y, it helps at school Nov 07 14:38:31 ? Nov 07 14:38:34 oh cool Nov 07 14:40:10 Noobmonk3y : Bon, Mon N900 quand il reçoit des sms, au début sa marche je reçois bien, mais au bout de 30- 40 sms, les sms du contact en question sont plus accessible, le nom a aussi disparus. Je peux lire les messages en allant sur le contacte puis sms, mais depuis l'application je ne peux pas. Nov 07 14:40:12 arf .. Nov 07 14:40:15 lol Nov 07 14:40:16 I would use it at home or at work, but I have (the same) pc for both right next to me as well :p Nov 07 14:40:22 je ne parle pas francais ;) Nov 07 14:40:26 Noobmonk3y : Well, my N900 when receiving sms, his early works I get well, but after 30 to 40 sms, sms of the contact in question are more accessible, the name has also disappeared. I can read messages from the contacts and sms, but since the application I can not. Nov 07 14:40:30 sorry :) Nov 07 14:40:34 DocScrutinizer: ^^ Nov 07 14:40:41 DocScrutinizer : Well, my N900 when receiving sms, his early works I get well, but after 30 to 40 sms, sms of the contact in question are more accessible, the name has also disappeared. I can read messages from the contacts and sms, but since the application I can not. Nov 07 14:40:43 =D Nov 07 14:40:47 lol Nov 07 14:41:04 thanks vit0 and well done, translating can be a pain - but hopefully worth the effort for you Nov 07 14:41:09 * MohammadAG51 understood that without translation - /me is impressed Nov 07 14:41:23 MohammadAG: i kinda did too, but i did speak fluent french when i was 10 lol Nov 07 14:41:28 just havent spoken it since Nov 07 14:41:43 MohammadAG51: have you tried charging and hostmode simultaneously (where you use a modified powered usb hub to provide power both to additional devices and to the n900)? Nov 07 14:41:45 I understood all the technical words that're the same in both languages Nov 07 14:41:48 and the numbers Nov 07 14:41:49 go me. Nov 07 14:41:52 vit0: Noobmonk3y: so how's that related to hw broken?? Nov 07 14:42:07 DocScrutinizer: surely after a flash + emmc flash - what else can it be? Nov 07 14:42:09 DocScrutinizer: well, the problem isnt fixed by a firmware and emmc flash Nov 07 14:42:11 (4 flashes lol) Nov 07 14:42:20 PaulFertser, no, not yet, but my cable seems to turn on my hub when connected to a PC Nov 07 14:42:24 but thats why i asked you ;) Nov 07 14:42:32 (y-cable's connected, not the hub itself) Nov 07 14:43:15 well, if that's a bug in conversations app (and there are well some tickets against 1.3 conversations, esp regarding SMS), how would a reflash fix that? Nov 07 14:43:32 DocScrutinizer : Noobmonk3y : My friend have the same issu since PR1.3 .. Nov 07 14:43:33 no, but more people would see it? (maybe?) Nov 07 14:43:39 well, the bug is obviously not consistent Nov 07 14:43:45 citation = all the people who have no problems. Nov 07 14:43:47 like me Nov 07 14:43:51 vit0: Doc's explanation may be right then, but sounds odd Nov 07 14:43:57 nidO: :) Nov 07 14:44:20 nidO: that means the bug is not *understood completely* Nov 07 14:44:24 MohammadAG51: some would like to have some kind of "docking station" for n900. Also consider using your n900 for car navigation when you want to connect an external mass storage or even a special car controller via usb. So charging during hostmode would be rather nice to have. Nov 07 14:44:55 ooo PaulFertser - a car docking station sounds good :) Nov 07 14:45:00 mm i don't understend DocScrutinizer explanation, so reflash isn't the solution ... Nov 07 14:45:01 indeed, but not possible with bme :/ Nov 07 14:45:14 so i'd need help with jrbme to test it Nov 07 14:45:52 vit0: what's there you don't understand? there are bugs in conversation app in PR1.3 Nov 07 14:46:44 DocScrutinizer: anyone know where it originates from? therefore people can try to bypass it? Nov 07 14:46:58 Noobmonk3y: please check trac! Nov 07 14:47:25 bug 11450 for example Nov 07 14:47:28 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11450 The SMS log in conversations doesn't display last sms's Nov 07 14:47:48 DocScrutinizer : ok i understend, so its ' normal ' my bugs ... Nov 07 14:47:59 yes Nov 07 14:48:13 err Nov 07 14:48:20 'yes' Nov 07 14:48:53 vit0: yes, but i'm now reading the forums/ bug pages to try and find something similar, the good thing about bugs is people find work-arounds, before fixes normally Nov 07 14:49:33 bug 11456 as well Nov 07 14:49:36 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11456 History of every conversation (SMS, IM) empty after update to PR1.3 Nov 07 14:51:03 mmm ok i see ... Nov 07 14:52:30 DocScrutinizer: noted Nov 07 14:52:55 Also, I didn't need to enable boost for powered devices :) Nov 07 14:55:08 alterego, cool, so I guess step 2 is optional :) Nov 07 14:55:21 alterego: I'm working on a bme replacement called jrbme, which also handles hostmode correctly, among other things. Suggestions how to make sure I umount prior to stopping hostmode there are much appreciated Nov 07 14:57:09 DocScrutinizer: cool, I'll do some research on it. Also, do we have charging when in host mode? Nov 07 14:57:41 I know it was a possibility in some of the earlier discussions Nov 07 14:58:16 probably umounting still should get handled in whatever app or daemon did the mount, but jrbme will want to check if the plugged peripheral is "in use" and refuse to stop hostmode unless --force'd if that's the case Nov 07 14:58:33 alterego: sure Nov 07 14:59:15 assuming ke-recv doesn't work Nov 07 14:59:23 Yeah, should also have a info message saying do not remove, and then it's now safe to remove. Nov 07 14:59:24 alterego, can't something be done in the app? Nov 07 14:59:44 or ideally, a status bar icon to unmount (ala N8) Nov 07 15:00:00 And of course educate users about attach/detach Nov 07 15:00:12 That would be neat. Nov 07 15:00:16 have a list of what's mounted, show a list of what to unmount Nov 07 15:00:37 since the app itself did the mounting, keeping a list should be easy Nov 07 15:00:52 well, it's all /dev/sd$ Nov 07 15:01:11 Also we can find out whether it's usb bus connected to be sane anyway Nov 07 15:01:45 alterego: that comes quite naturally as users will kill their data when removing memstick without proper "remove safely" (as on every other system), and stopping hostmode via jrbme will yell if the umount hasn't been done Nov 07 15:02:01 How stable are the kernel patches? I'm gonna create a uboot kernel from them so I can still use meego Nov 07 15:02:30 stable Nov 07 15:02:40 alterego, no Nov 07 15:02:47 there's sr0 for dvds Nov 07 15:02:51 Might also work on applying the patches to the meego kernel and see about getting it working on there. Nov 07 15:03:09 alterego: lsusb will tell you Nov 07 15:03:14 Indeed Nov 07 15:03:25 It's all in sysfs anyway Nov 07 15:05:10 jrbme will just check if anything is mounted on USB and refuse to stop hostmode if it's unsafe to do so Nov 07 15:05:45 How is that coming along anyway? Nov 07 15:05:49 DocScrutinizer, have you daemonized it yet? Nov 07 15:06:34 alterego: slowly as I'm feeling like "eeew, hostmode" and "eeew, maemo" atm Nov 07 15:06:46 IOW I'm pissed Nov 07 15:07:28 :( Nov 07 15:07:28 morning gentlemen Nov 07 15:07:34 Hey javispedro Nov 07 15:07:40 hey javispedro Nov 07 15:07:41 lo javispedro Nov 07 15:08:03 I see that you take the "easy" part in h-e-n seriously :) Nov 07 15:08:22 javispedro: ever did Nov 07 15:08:38 stuff about which block devices are on usb should be in sysfs Nov 07 15:08:57 yoh Nov 07 15:08:59 on a desktop system udev handles/remembers it for use by gnome-volume-manager or similar daemons Nov 07 15:09:31 (in fact it saves information about which block devices are owned by which usb device so as to allow "Extract the entire device safely" to work) Nov 07 15:09:37 I'm thankful for hints here Nov 07 15:10:14 I'd prefer udev personally Nov 07 15:10:27 hey guys Nov 07 15:10:37 Would make things more simple for you'd I'd have thought too. Nov 07 15:10:39 javispedro: alterego: consider a hub with several peripherals plugged in Nov 07 15:10:39 alterego: unfortunately on the n900 udev has half of the rules you've come to expect Nov 07 15:11:00 javispedro: sure, but that's easy to fix :) Nov 07 15:11:27 MohammadAG: fixed my qt install! Nov 07 15:11:52 DocScrutinizer: I'd make a udev rule similar to the rule that on a desktop builds /dev/disk/by-path/ Nov 07 15:12:28 DocScrutinizer: you can try this on your desktop -- see /dev/disk/by-path/ contents after/before plugging in a usb mass storage devie Nov 07 15:12:46 javispedro: good point Nov 07 15:13:25 that's app level though, for jrbme I got simpler means to check if *anything* still needs hostmode, I guess Nov 07 15:13:34 Yeah, and mount my vol name or id Nov 07 15:14:14 DocScrutinizer: I do not know a simpler way =) Nov 07 15:14:29 javispedro: and currently I don't really care about app level, as that's owned by others Nov 07 15:14:49 if musb is sane everything in by-path will be prefixed by path to musb itself Nov 07 15:14:57 eg platform-musb (didn't check) Nov 07 15:15:03 Is there absolutely no chance of auto enumeration? Nov 07 15:15:14 so you could just umount every whose path starts by platform-musb Nov 07 15:15:19 *every device Nov 07 15:15:45 that would kill every usb device Nov 07 15:16:02 yeah, much better, and once all devices are safely unmounted turn off host Nov 07 15:16:12 mode Nov 07 15:16:23 I won't do that in jrbme Nov 07 15:16:34 (umount) Nov 07 15:16:43 unless --force Nov 07 15:16:53 ah, you just want detection then? Nov 07 15:17:03 for jrbme? yes Nov 07 15:17:39 dunno if there is a simpler way but checking if the device is mounted would be also trivial enough by this strategy (just match /etc/mtab with the device name) Nov 07 15:17:44 jrbme should just know when it's safe for host mode to be disabled, shouldn't do any u/mounting. But maybe notify user of hostmode being in use. Nov 07 15:18:06 for --force I consider sth along path "sync; fuser -k..." Nov 07 15:19:05 on the N900 for ex. there's currently a rule that associates a block device with a mmc slot number Nov 07 15:19:11 (udev rule) Nov 07 15:19:22 alterego: notifying is on my specs, two flavours Nov 07 15:19:24 so that (I guess) when you open the mmc cover system umounts proper partitions Nov 07 15:20:00 P: /block/mmcblk1/mmcblk1p3 Nov 07 15:20:00 E: SLOT_NUM=0 Nov 07 15:20:27 alterego: direct notifications via dbus call for a banner, or alternatively feedback to app calling the userland instance of jrbme which communicates to the daemon Nov 07 15:21:03 uhuh Nov 07 15:21:22 N900 not recognising my partition table on this drive. Nov 07 15:22:54 javispedro: I like to exploit exactly same scheme for jrbme --force --hostoff Nov 07 15:23:57 opening back cover is exactly same event (on a sematic level) as telling jrbme to stop hostmode unconditionally Nov 07 15:24:18 semantic* Nov 07 15:25:38 meh Nov 07 15:25:52 new wt works fine, wont test on device now though :| Nov 07 15:25:54 anyway, cya peeps Nov 07 15:26:38 ciao Nov 07 15:26:40 cya Nov 07 15:28:59 Hmm, should the usb host mode thingie work with cameras? For example, can I copy data from EOS 400D straight to N900? Nov 07 15:29:10 In principle, yes. Nov 07 15:29:28 Exact method may vary, and the support of the base software probably won't be there. Nov 07 15:29:28 host mode? is it now working? Nov 07 15:29:36 - you wouldn't want tracker to index it. Nov 07 15:29:39 Venemo: almost Nov 07 15:29:43 Venemo: there are wrinkles Nov 07 15:30:02 hmmmmm Nov 07 15:30:05 jvesiluoma: but if you're asking 'can I copy the pictures off' - then yes Nov 07 15:30:10 ok.... qt builds, and sends it to the device Nov 07 15:30:16 says it is running but device isnt running it Nov 07 15:30:26 SpeedEvil: do you have a link to the details? Nov 07 15:30:30 (Reading database ... Finished running remote process. <---instantly says that Nov 07 15:30:34 no Nov 07 15:30:43 SpeedEvil: okay nice, and yes, I'm addicted to technical specs also =) Nov 07 15:31:29 jvesiluoma: Also - doesn't the eos400d do bluetooth? Nov 07 15:31:33 Or have I misremembered. Nov 07 15:31:43 When it is released, I'll plan to add it to my web interface thingie, there are many possibilities... Nov 07 15:31:48 (my cameras come a lot cheaper, typically broken, from ebay) Nov 07 15:31:50 SpeedEvil: no, EOS 400D doesn't have bluetooth Nov 07 15:31:55 ah Nov 07 15:34:17 humm...installing qole's SDK image right now...have to test if I manage to compile gstmjpg with it so I can add it to my webinterface Nov 07 15:34:46 that way users could see video from frontcam (for example) in real time if their N900 is lost or stolen... Nov 07 15:34:52 does the rf command work like the del command? (hehe) wanna delete all debs in a folder on the n900) Nov 07 15:35:20 or just delete all files, but not sub-folders Nov 07 15:35:40 yay done Nov 07 15:36:40 ok... i click run in qt .... it creates a random deb... then starts remote app - creates the healthcheck_0.0.1_armel.deb Nov 07 15:36:47 then instantly says it is finished Nov 07 15:36:52 so... problem with dpkg? Nov 07 15:41:48 ~tell Venemo about hostmode Nov 07 15:43:39 hey guys Nov 07 15:44:02 Venemo, Noobmonk3y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDzUG-bno6Q Nov 07 15:44:40 mplayer, so it's raping the CPU Nov 07 15:46:07 MohammadAG: <3 it's so nice seeing people outside of my pedophile ring use "rape" as a verb in that situation. It really annoys people at work. Nov 07 15:46:17 DocScrutinizer51: thx :) Nov 07 15:46:31 FauxFaux, LOL Nov 07 15:47:08 any epic person who knows digital logic/logic gates wanna help out a bro with his uni assignment? Nov 07 15:47:24 MohammadAG: nice video Nov 07 15:47:35 MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer: how user-friendly it is? Nov 07 15:48:15 42 Nov 07 15:48:17 Venemo, http://i51.tinypic.com/b4xl4z.jpg Nov 07 15:48:40 MohammadAG: hm, looks okay :) Nov 07 15:49:03 MohammadAG: does this stuff also do the nasty things like disabling/reenabling bme and such? Nov 07 15:49:32 Hurrrraaaaah! Nov 07 15:49:33 Venemo: yup Nov 07 15:49:39 Problem solved. Nov 07 15:49:42 bme is disabled in the constructor, enabled in the destructor Nov 07 15:49:49 alterego, not as bad as before :P Nov 07 15:49:55 Heh Nov 07 15:49:58 and what about the jrbme thingy? Nov 07 15:50:01 thanks to PaulFertser :) Nov 07 15:50:59 Mohammad: btw, what have you changed in the midnight commander? =) Nov 07 15:51:18 RST38h, original maintainer returned :) Nov 07 15:52:28 you mean, zap? Nov 07 15:52:35 um? Nov 07 15:52:39 andrew Nov 07 15:52:42 oh Nov 07 15:52:43 hello :) Nov 07 15:52:48 oh, he's zap? Nov 07 15:52:52 hey zap :) Nov 07 15:52:54 RST38h: I've got a N900 in the meantime Nov 07 15:52:59 MohammadAG: ;) Nov 07 15:53:08 small internet :P Nov 07 15:53:21 Anyone who feels that patent quality is just far too high nowadays will be glad to hear that the USPTO has decided to ditch four of their seven tests for obviousness. Nov 07 15:53:21 small world in general Nov 07 15:53:35 zap: welcome tosuffering :) Nov 07 15:53:47 RST38h: 4.7.4 is still in testing, not ready for public use yet Nov 07 15:53:48 Heh Nov 07 15:53:56 some people are getting wrong rendering for a unknown problem Nov 07 15:54:06 RST38h: if I live in the EU, do those crappy US patents matter to me at all? Nov 07 15:54:17 indirectly Nov 07 15:54:47 Venemo: your US bank accounts may be arrested, for example Nov 07 15:55:02 zap: I don't have anything in the US Nov 07 15:55:08 The British rap star DJ Ironik was in hospital last night after being stabbed in the left buttock by robbers who had tracked him by Twitter Nov 07 15:55:09 well, who knows :) Nov 07 15:55:16 MohammadAG: Great dvd choice! Nov 07 15:55:27 Next time you post to twitter...[insert ass joke here] Nov 07 15:55:28 RST38h: how ironic Nov 07 15:55:38 lokos a bit laggy though ;) Nov 07 15:55:48 zap: I am sure they felt the same =) Nov 07 15:56:01 Noobmonk3y, mplayer :) Nov 07 15:56:08 lol Nov 07 15:56:29 btw MohammadAG New QT version wont run on my device :9 Nov 07 15:56:33 :( Nov 07 15:56:51 Noobmonk3y: what new Qt version? Nov 07 15:56:54 Noobmonk3y, muhahaha... huh? Nov 07 15:57:34 i dloaded the Nokia QT CReator Nov 07 15:57:43 (rather than qt creator) ie the one with mobility etc Nov 07 15:57:54 builds and transfers to device Nov 07 15:58:07 but no running :( Nov 07 15:58:46 download the proper SDK Nov 07 15:59:22 RST38h: you mean they stabbed him just 4 lulz? Nov 07 16:01:03 zap: anyway, how are patents related to arresting bank accounts? Nov 07 16:01:26 Venemo: if some us company sues U Nov 07 16:01:41 for breaking their patents Nov 07 16:01:49 zap: aah... Nov 07 16:02:15 zap: so if I don't have anything in the US, I can safely not care about US patents, right? Nov 07 16:02:36 well, some guys were thinking the same Nov 07 16:02:50 then they forgot it, and went to us for holidays, or conferences, alike... Nov 07 16:02:58 zap: and? Nov 07 16:03:15 zap: they got arrested when they went to the US? Nov 07 16:03:19 and got under arrest. Moloch never sleeps. Nov 07 16:03:27 zap: that is just lol Nov 07 16:07:32 aghhhhhhhh idont get QT Nov 07 16:07:37 is the PR1.3 running 4.7? Nov 07 16:07:40 or 4.6.2? Nov 07 16:07:50 4.7 Nov 07 16:07:52 4.7 Nov 07 16:07:59 Only notable update in the release. Nov 07 16:08:18 so i need to dload this thing? http://www.screencast.com/users/noobmonkey/folders/Jing/media/8e1dab6f-5d7e-4ce9-b2b3-8a3874eb7e24 Nov 07 16:08:24 to be able to qmake from my pc? Nov 07 16:09:27 Noobmonk3y: just use the Nokia Qt SDK, that installs everything you need Nov 07 16:09:40 Venemo: Compiles, and sends it to the device, nothing happens Nov 07 16:09:48 Noobmonk3y: after installing it, update it with its updater Nov 07 16:09:53 Noobmonk3y: hm, interesting Nov 07 16:09:54 Noobmonk3y, can the device start it? Nov 07 16:09:58 manually Nov 07 16:10:07 i.e, /usr/local/bin/healthcheck Nov 07 16:10:21 http://www.screencast.com/users/noobmonkey/folders/Jing/media/c2525f88-6f20-49ce-b3ce-1788af6f0e63 Nov 07 16:10:58 MohammadAG: runs fine! Nov 07 16:12:13 ok, so why does that work, what is qt not doing? Nov 07 16:12:36 running it on device :) Nov 07 16:12:42 madde related probably Nov 07 16:12:43 ;) Nov 07 16:12:46 hmmmmmmm Nov 07 16:12:53 any idea what to do? Nov 07 16:13:05 Noobmonk3y: did you upgrade the SDK? Nov 07 16:13:31 Venemo, i installed the Nokia QT one (Was previously using the plain old QT one) Nov 07 16:13:48 Noobmonk3y: and DID YOU UPGRADE THE DAMN THING? Nov 07 16:13:53 nope lol Nov 07 16:13:54 Noobmonk3y: with its updater tool Nov 07 16:13:58 * Noobmonk3y goes and upgrades Nov 07 16:14:01 Noobmonk3y: please try? Nov 07 16:14:07 Venemo: wasnt use to being able to do that lol Nov 07 16:14:09 trying ;) Nov 07 16:14:20 Noobmonk3y: there is an "SDK Maintenance tool" and an "SDK updater tool" I think Nov 07 16:14:29 trying the update one :) Nov 07 16:15:08 no updates Nov 07 16:15:42 Noobmonk3y: well that's interesting, 'cause the current one on their site is out of date (at least it was a week ago) Nov 07 16:15:52 lol! Nov 07 16:16:00 will just dloaded it an hour or so ago Nov 07 16:16:12 s/will/well/ Nov 07 16:16:13 Noobmonk3y meant: well just dloaded it an hour or so ago Nov 07 16:17:08 Noobmonk3y: "Date added: 03 November 2010" yeah this may be okay then Nov 07 16:17:18 Noobmonk3y: what does Qt Creator say when you press the play button? Nov 07 16:18:08 Venemo: http://www.screencast.com/users/noobmonkey/folders/Jing/media/126067b3-39a0-4e1b-90ec-4a9a77bb8f77 Nov 07 16:18:26 Noobmonk3y: okay. Nov 07 16:18:30 normally it stays reading until i close it Nov 07 16:18:37 Noobmonk3y: go to the project tab Nov 07 16:18:51 k Nov 07 16:18:52 Noobmonk3y: then the Maemo build options Nov 07 16:18:55 * javispedro ponders Nov 07 16:19:01 Noobmonk3y: and check the "skip packaging step" option Nov 07 16:19:08 Noobmonk3y: and try then Nov 07 16:19:13 is there any reason stock Maemo doesn't recognize mmcblk1p8 onwards? Nov 07 16:19:30 sfdisk shows them but neither kernel knows about it nor device nodes are created. Nov 07 16:19:34 Noobmonk3y: some moron thought it would be a good idea to make a .deb package on every build an install it on the device on every run Nov 07 16:19:49 ~nuke the morons who thought that it was a good idea Nov 07 16:19:49 ahaaaaaaaaaa Nov 07 16:19:49 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at the morons who thought that it was a good idea ... B☢☢M! Nov 07 16:19:52 should it o_O Nov 07 16:19:54 that works! Nov 07 16:20:03 Venemo, ++ Nov 07 16:20:20 javispedro, tried rebooting? Nov 07 16:20:26 yeah... Nov 07 16:20:44 iirc this is the second time this happens to me... Nov 07 16:20:54 MohammadAG: at the beginning of the summer, they figured to make .debs every time Nov 07 16:21:08 MohammadAG: on my request, the guy put in this "skip packaging step" option Nov 07 16:21:17 Venemo: ;) - genius! Nov 07 16:21:17 MohammadAG: and promised that they'll gonna get it right... Nov 07 16:21:20 thank you v much Nov 07 16:21:49 Noobmonk3y: you're welcome... :) Nov 07 16:21:53 Venemo, did they? :P Nov 07 16:22:08 MohammadAG: not yet, but I stopped caring about it Nov 07 16:22:17 heh Nov 07 16:22:28 I just put it in a wrong IP Nov 07 16:22:33 then I copy the binary manually Nov 07 16:22:46 MohammadAG: more correctly, I didn't check it for some time, but as Noobmonk3y can tell, ultimately they failed Nov 07 16:22:59 MohammadAG: what I hate about it is it is not checked by default Nov 07 16:22:59 yup Venemo ;) - tis sooo random Nov 07 16:23:03 why the other version works fine Nov 07 16:23:05 and that one fails Nov 07 16:23:19 MohammadAG: so it screwes up my extisting debian folder if I forget to check it Nov 07 16:23:27 now i've forgotten what code i was gonna add lol Nov 07 16:24:03 MohammadAG: in some pre-release, the thing automatically created a .desktop file for my app (even if it had one!!!), and put gibberish stuff about it in the .pro file Nov 07 16:24:28 MohammadAG: with no option to turn this off... it was then when I stopped caring Nov 07 16:24:51 MohammadAG: fortunately that anti-feature didn't make it (yet?) into the stable version Nov 07 16:25:09 it's not in it :P Nov 07 16:25:13 mooo, javispedro Nov 07 16:25:17 I don't use it for final packaging Nov 07 16:25:19 moo RST38h Nov 07 16:25:21 I use scratchbox for that Nov 07 16:25:28 RST38h: done anything evil recently? Nov 07 16:25:44 MohammadAG: me neither, I use the "skip packaging step" feaure, added by a sane member of the Qt Creator team Nov 07 16:26:23 ah, Apple stores already hiring for the Christmas marketing spree. Nov 07 16:26:39 javispedro:Debugged a certain project to make sound work Nov 07 16:26:54 javispedro: Just finished, feeling like a turtle just after laying eggs. Nov 07 16:27:31 heh. Nov 07 16:28:48 * javispedro shuts n900 off for a while in a futile attempt to get it to recognize more than 3 logical partitions... Nov 07 16:30:09 you should create some logical drives and install MSDOS to recognize them! Nov 07 16:30:22 * RST38h climbs a tree, really quickly Nov 07 16:30:27 javispedro, sync Nov 07 16:30:29 javispedro: sorry if I'm mistaking you for someone else, but wasn't it you who worked on the OpenTTD for Maemo? Nov 07 16:30:32 ~chase RST38h Nov 07 16:30:32 * infobot chases RST38h Nov 07 16:30:43 Venemo: I am the latest one in a series of pour sools Nov 07 16:30:47 *poor Nov 07 16:31:05 javispedro: Check out Fennec latets beta btw. Nov 07 16:31:05 MohammadAG: sync what? it is off =) Nov 07 16:31:10 javispedro: TTD is one of my all-time favourites :) Nov 07 16:31:14 Incredibly, it has become USABLE Nov 07 16:31:18 javispedro: why do you say poor souls? Nov 07 16:31:21 `sync` Nov 07 16:32:06 javispedro: sync doesn't help for partition tables Nov 07 16:32:09 Venemo: because there's a lot of work to be done even up to the point you could publish a paper about it Nov 07 16:32:48 "How I suffered porting a desktop-grade game to show up at the 3.5" screen" Nov 07 16:32:55 a question: does anyone have more than 3 logical partitions on N900 external sd? Nov 07 16:33:09 javispedro: if you can't remove and redetect the phys dev, you'll probably need to reboot Nov 07 16:33:19 DocScrutinizer: I've reboot two times by now Nov 07 16:33:46 javispedro: well the latest version is quite playable (as far as I can see) Nov 07 16:33:47 for external SD a opening and closing back cover should suffice Nov 07 16:33:49 * javispedro does dmesg | vi -R not remembering this is messybox, causes havoc in system Nov 07 16:33:54 javispedro: what is it that needs work? Nov 07 16:34:20 Venemo: dialogs do not fit in 400x200 resolution, and 800x480 means too high DPI which means many people complain Nov 07 16:35:01 javispedro: well yeah Nov 07 16:35:08 Venemo: weird audio subsystem which means packagers have to rewrite it (like previous maintainer did... I proceeded to throw his work and now I wish I still had it) Nov 07 16:35:27 javispedro: I use it at 800×420 usually Nov 07 16:35:37 me too. Nov 07 16:35:51 javispedro: wouldn't recommend it for visually impaired people, that's for sure, but hey, TTD on the N900!!! Nov 07 16:36:08 javispedro: are the upstream authors helpful with it? Nov 07 16:36:31 I guess they would if I bothered to bother them =) Nov 07 16:39:19 javispedro: mhm :P Nov 07 16:40:44 javispedro: what's ?fdisk telling about your parition table? Nov 07 16:42:38 DocScrutinizer: http://maemo.pastebin.com/dJUAsxGA Nov 07 16:42:51 javispedro: you're aware you have a max of 4 real partitions on a msdos partition table, on of which can be a logical partition which points to a linked list of "extension blocks"? Nov 07 16:43:15 yes, note "logical partition" Nov 07 16:43:31 Hello. I've tried to install the ssh client+server package, entered a root password when asked for it, now sudo won't give me root with either rootme nor the pw that I chose. Ideas? Nov 07 16:43:56 chrissbx: use 'sudo gainroot' Nov 07 16:43:57 I seem to kinda remember that Maemo had a problem where the initramfs had only device nodes up to p7, but that was a) Diablo b) either way shouldn't make the kernel misreport partition count Nov 07 16:44:40 (damn kernel <-> user space device node renaming ) Nov 07 16:44:53 hm, enable RD mode; going to read up about that Nov 07 16:44:55 javispedro: your partition table is rather crippled, it really shouldn't have /dev/mmcblk1p3 and /dev/mmcblk1p4 Nov 07 16:45:26 DocScrutinizer: I think it does, those are the 4 primary partitions you were speaking of Nov 07 16:45:43 (not to mention that desktop gets it right) Nov 07 16:45:50 javispedro: usually 'Extended' needs to be the last physical partition Nov 07 16:46:03 hm.. Nov 07 16:46:14 you got another 2 bogus unused empty phys parts after that Nov 07 16:46:48 hum Nov 07 16:46:50 either way Nov 07 16:47:01 since it seems the issue only appears for partitions >= 8 Nov 07 16:47:07 I will make a few logical partitions primary ones. Nov 07 16:47:13 and leave the issue for now. Nov 07 16:47:20 s/a few/two Nov 07 16:48:49 javispedro: also partitions quite usually are required to be strictly monotonically increasing in cyl nr etc. Your /dev/mmcblk1p3 and /dev/mmcblk1p4 are perverted in a nmber of ways Nov 07 16:49:06 it is not such a weird setup Nov 07 16:49:24 DOS itself would use it Nov 07 16:49:32 as it would not allow more than one primary partition at all Nov 07 16:49:45 but I do not remember if it would place extended on #4 or #2 Nov 07 16:50:55 lo frals Nov 07 16:51:04 either way, as desktop works with this card this means that code parsing mbr for n900 is not the same as code parsing mbr for usb mass storage on desktop Nov 07 16:51:37 chrissbx, install rootsh Nov 07 16:52:21 javispedro: what? DOS not allowing more than 1 primary? Nope Nov 07 16:52:39 DOS invented that shit Nov 07 16:53:45 DocScrutinizer: boot DOS. fdisk. Type 1 (Create new DOS partition or logical drive). Type 1 (Create new primary partition). "Primary partition already exists". Nov 07 16:53:53 * javispedro knows it by hand Nov 07 16:54:24 never seen that, in 30 years Nov 07 16:55:14 one would usually create "logical drives" on a drive that already has a primary partition Nov 07 16:55:46 nope, you usually create logicals on a drive that needs more than 4 partitions Nov 07 16:55:56 not on pure DOS :) Nov 07 16:56:02 javispedro: that's limitation of dos fdisk only, even dos could use several primary partitions all right. Nov 07 16:56:03 Go check it, I'm quite sure. Nov 07 16:56:15 javispedro: you can't create it but can use. Nov 07 16:56:20 funny thing is that dos allows only one primary while dos partition tables allow 4 Nov 07 16:56:36 PaulFertser: old DOS couldn't Nov 07 16:56:41 javispedro: I created 4 partitions on DOS when ther's not yet been any concept about logical Nov 07 16:56:46 PaulFertser: remember tricks hiding other primary partitions before booting DOS Nov 07 16:56:47 javispedro: hm, how old? msdos 6.22? Nov 07 16:57:07 javispedro: logical partitions being an extension on top of the original limit of 4 Nov 07 16:57:07 and by hiding I mean just changing MBR partition ID so that only one had FAT Nov 07 16:57:37 PaulFertser: iirc 6.22 cannot. Nov 07 16:57:51 PaulFertser: the FAT32 ones being the first that can Nov 07 16:58:06 javispedro: whatever, there MUST NOT be phy partitions after Extended Nov 07 16:59:01 W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org diablo Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY E40DC434616730BD Nov 07 16:59:03 What do you recommend for a better shell experience? At least cursor up, to get back the history items. Bash would be nice I guess. Nov 07 16:59:07 where can I get that key? Nov 07 16:59:10 delete /dev/mmcblk1p3 and /dev/mmcblk1p4 and everything will be fine I guess Nov 07 16:59:19 DocScrutinizer: that might be right (I really dunno what's good practice) but the issue here is that desk kernel allows it, while N900 seems to get confused Nov 07 16:59:50 DocScrutinizer: here's the weird part: as the mbr is just a fixed-size 4 row table, you cannot actually delete a primary partition Nov 07 16:59:58 DocScrutinizer: you can just set it to type 0 Nov 07 17:00:00 javispedro: it's "outside specs" so undefined behaviour Nov 07 17:00:07 javispedro: i found something related: http://www.freedos.org/freedos/news/technote/txt/028.txt Nov 07 17:00:46 PaulFertser: their description of MSDOS behaviour matches what I had in mind. Nov 07 17:01:13 PaulFertser: sorry, Arkady's description =) Nov 07 17:01:40 tehre is bash in repos chrissbx Nov 07 17:02:43 * javispedro decides to delete entire mbr and recreate it Nov 07 17:02:50 hopefully I do not need to use DOS fdisk =) Nov 07 17:03:06 javispedro: I managed to create perverted partition tables several times in my life, by doing things like I seee at your pastebin. Usually when I use cfdisk in a sane manner (like it's supposed to be, create phy first, then 1 ext and as much log inside that as you want) everything is fine. Otherwise BAD THINGS happen Nov 07 17:03:40 DocScrutinizer: I think you believe I've created partitions 3 and 4 Nov 07 17:03:48 I didn't, they're empty. Nov 07 17:04:04 There's just no way I can delete them because mbr is fixed 4row table. Nov 07 17:04:11 and I need to put _something_ in there. Nov 07 17:04:13 so 0, invalid. Nov 07 17:04:19 so I got no idea about fsckng sfdisk. Use a sane tool :-P Nov 07 17:04:32 * javispedro boots gparted Nov 07 17:05:06 * DocScrutinizer suggests cfdisk Nov 07 17:06:16 * javispedro does a test.. Nov 07 17:06:56 nevermind.. found it Nov 07 17:08:15 * javispedro creates seven fat32 partitions, three primary ones, a extended one, and four logical ones. Nov 07 17:08:24 I bet it's going to fail :) Nov 07 17:09:06 grrrrrrrrr Nov 07 17:09:09 ok, so ... Nov 07 17:09:10 desktop kernel reads them: sdd: sdd1 sdd2 sdd3 sdd4 < sdd5 sdd6 sdd7 sdd8 > Nov 07 17:09:17 PR1.3 has QT 4.7 Nov 07 17:09:24 does it include mobility 1.0? Nov 07 17:10:04 is this legal? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65221 Nov 07 17:10:38 lol good question Nov 07 17:10:55 n900 says: mmcblk0: p1 p2 p3 p4 < p5 p6 p7 > Nov 07 17:11:06 why the hell do you need that many partitions Nov 07 17:11:11 MohammadAG: Can i use QTmobility on the n900 now? (PR1.3 etc) Nov 07 17:11:17 javispedro: http://pastebin.com/nq56TiCu Nov 07 17:11:18 kerio: atm I'm just trying to reproduce Nov 07 17:11:30 I guess the kernel being 2 years old on a fresh install of the latest firmware, and no upgrades available, means that Nokia doesn't take security serious (at all)? Nov 07 17:11:35 DocScrutinizer: unfortunately you're not reaching the magic number of 8 Nov 07 17:11:43 Noobmonk3y, libqtm-dev Nov 07 17:11:51 ? Nov 07 17:12:21 if i build a package with it, will i be able to package it and put it in maemo.org? Nov 07 17:12:22 lol Nov 07 17:12:25 javispedro: why is that a magic number? Nov 07 17:12:34 DocScrutinizer: I do not know :( Nov 07 17:12:38 Noobmonk3y, yeah, libqtm* is in devel Nov 07 17:12:41 meh Nov 07 17:12:46 or SSU repos, not sure Nov 07 17:12:53 javispedro: why do you say is that a magic number? Nov 07 17:12:55 hmmmmmm Nov 07 17:12:58 DocScrutinizer: http://maemo.pastebin.com/6r9jLgbv Nov 07 17:13:17 ok.... when i try to code, qt creator isnt recognising lines like#include Nov 07 17:13:18 DocScrutinizer: because for some reason it cannot read logical partitions after #8 (inclusive) Nov 07 17:14:25 if you have an empty card and want to waste a bit of time ( ;) ), I suggest you try to reproduce it. Nov 07 17:15:42 (cause personally I'm going to workaround it by... having less than 8 partitions :) ) Nov 07 17:16:01 javispedro: neither of both. I suggest you check maemo's diskdriver. Nr of allowable partitionsl may be limited Nov 07 17:16:33 good point. I thought all drivers used same code for reading partition table layout? Nov 07 17:16:42 lol Nov 07 17:17:40 there's to be some kernel space table to hold per device partition info. It has a limited arbitrary size if it's not a linked list Nov 07 17:17:50 aaaah Nov 07 17:18:10 just like process table Nov 07 17:18:46 probably grep in config Nov 07 17:18:57 to find the option to dimension it Nov 07 17:20:36 * javispedro bangs head agains desk Nov 07 17:20:40 process table of maemo is limited to 1000 it seems to me. No idea about size of partition table, maybe 8 ? :-D Nov 07 17:20:41 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle-20091116/source/kernel/drivers/mmc/card/block.c#45 Nov 07 17:21:14 :-P Nov 07 17:21:39 evil. Nov 07 17:21:46 also, you were completely right =) Nov 07 17:21:56 Any idea what could make my N900 claim that it cannot play mp3 in mediaplayer (extras-devel enabled, and the phone app does not play nor record sound either). Nov 07 17:22:31 javispedro: i'll find the limitation soon Nov 07 17:22:45 way to get current gateway address? ifconfig? Nov 07 17:22:55 kthomas_vh_: sure Nov 07 17:23:00 PaulFertser: seems it has to do with minor number allocation. seen the comment and the two constants below it? Nov 07 17:23:10 kthomas_vh_: route -n Nov 07 17:23:15 valdyn, optin ... Nov 07 17:23:17 alterego, tks Nov 07 17:23:26 javispedro: that's exactly what i think, that there're only 8 minors allocated. I'll check where it comes from. Nov 07 17:23:31 PaulFertser: current driver seems to do static allocation, dividing total available space / 8 (thus 8 minors per card max) Nov 07 17:23:42 yep Nov 07 17:23:49 though that may assume that the correct gateway is set via route, ... Nov 07 17:23:51 * kthomas_vh_ checks that Nov 07 17:24:10 kthomas_vh_: sorry, what i said was nonsense Nov 07 17:24:32 kthomas_vh_: you can set it via route, you cant set it via ifconfig, you can also set it via the ip command etc Nov 07 17:24:35 PaulFertser: DocScrutinizer: fortunately, it's nice to know that such mmc subsystem limitation won't affect usbhost mass storage partition numbering :) Nov 07 17:24:59 kthomas_vh_: so what else is "current gateway" then, if not what's set in route? :-D Nov 07 17:25:08 valdyn, it will *show* Nov 07 17:25:19 DocScrutinizer, well, Nov 07 17:25:22 any idea what could make a n900 so completely mute? Nov 07 17:25:26 assume assigned by DHCP Nov 07 17:25:33 Don't fancy reflashing the thing. Nov 07 17:25:34 but not set in route Nov 07 17:25:52 then it's not *gateway* Nov 07 17:25:59 but just another NIC Nov 07 17:26:07 easy for you to say Nov 07 17:26:22 the question is thus how to determine the correct gateway to use Nov 07 17:26:27 mm it is still needed to install the power user kernel to have mobilehotspot work? cause it's not in the deps anymore, it instead lists the "normal" kernel and modules Nov 07 17:26:35 in such a situation, so I can set it via route :) Nov 07 17:26:39 that's a slightly different question :-) Nov 07 17:26:39 * javispedro goes rebuild his mbr again. Nov 07 17:26:41 kthomas_vh_: routing can be done funny ways, that means you dont necessarily have a gateway at all Nov 07 17:27:39 it means I have a usb stick from Clear plugged into my 900, and am trying to figure out the next issue :P Nov 07 17:27:49 javispedro: there's a bug in the driver i believe. Nov 07 17:27:58 javispedro: it was reworked since then upstream. Nov 07 17:28:02 ah Nov 07 17:28:04 kthomas_vh_: what kind of usb stick? Nov 07 17:28:21 "unfortunate design decision", I'd say. Nov 07 17:28:33 it's their wimax, I *think* its working Nov 07 17:28:46 javispedro: no, i'd say that's a bug. They were going to use 32 minors. Nov 07 17:28:47 at least, I have a wimax0 interface Nov 07 17:28:59 neat Nov 07 17:29:01 and I have an IP Nov 07 17:29:01 PaulFertser: surprise surprise :-P Nov 07 17:29:05 PaulFertser: comment in code says 8? Nov 07 17:29:11 http://lxr.linux.no/linux+*/drivers/mmc/card/block.c#L48 Nov 07 17:29:11 whether it can communicate, who knows :) Nov 07 17:29:19 kthomas_vh_: as i said, you dont necessarily get a gateway Nov 07 17:29:25 kthomas_vh_: look at the netmask Nov 07 17:29:33 yes (on both) Nov 07 17:29:34 javispedro: hm, probably i'm wrong though. Nov 07 17:29:57 it's defined in config files as far as I can tell (gateway acquisition under wimax) Nov 07 17:30:20 javispedro: comment in the code says 8 but MMC_NUM_MINORS evaluates to 32, but then alloc_disk uses 1<3 again. Nov 07 17:30:35 probably now would be a good time to contact tech support and ask for the correct gateway IP :) Nov 07 17:30:39 hum, touche. weirdo. Nov 07 17:31:00 kthomas_vh_: just set the netmask to 0.0.0.0 and see if that works? Nov 07 17:31:06 either way I'd make it 32 partitions x 8 cards. Nov 07 17:31:06 heh Nov 07 17:31:13 Sounds more reasonable than 8 partitions x 32 cards =) Nov 07 17:31:40 LOL Nov 07 17:32:22 in times of 32GB uSD XP Nov 07 17:32:25 What could make the mediaplayer claim that it cannot play mp3 files? Nov 07 17:33:08 installed codecs messed Nov 07 17:33:13 yacc: does restarting fix the issue? Nov 07 17:33:27 or DSP locked up? Nov 07 17:33:40 see valdyn ^^^ Nov 07 17:34:33 oh, thank god I pastebinned the original mbr =) Nov 07 17:34:40 javispedro: i think i understand it now: the minors are common for all devices, so in the old scheme only 3 bits out of 32 were used for partitions, other 5 bits for disks. Now it's configurable. Nov 07 17:35:08 Anyone running Debian on the n800? Nov 07 17:35:13 javispedro: i think this commit (to configure the amount) can be cherry-picked or one can just change 3 to 4 and release a new kernel rev. Nov 07 17:35:22 valdyn, nope, and the phone app is mute (neither playback nor recording) too. Nov 07 17:36:05 PaulFertser: makes sense Nov 07 17:36:17 (3 bits out of 8 of course) Nov 07 17:36:30 hey guys. If I want to install zsh, should I just go ahead and add some debian or ubuntu repository and then apt-get? Nov 07 17:36:37 either way seems quite a wasteful allocation scheme Nov 07 17:36:50 but easy to implement :) Nov 07 17:37:11 sjk: I'm a newbie but I'm pretty sure you can't install Debian debs on Maemo. Nov 07 17:37:25 Any idea where I could see some form of logs? Seems like some dbus services are not there? (something like .xsession-error on a normal box), ... Nov 07 17:37:25 javispedro: indeed. Nov 07 17:37:36 Ahh Nov 07 17:37:40 Hmmm Nov 07 17:38:23 sjk: go to maemo.org, there's a list of packages you can install from the browser. Nov 07 17:38:40 not sure about zsh. Someone just told me there's bash, though. Nov 07 17:38:45 Ah,there is a fresh Fringe episode Nov 07 17:39:14 But I would really like to run plain Debian, not in a chroot but directly on the metal. Nov 07 17:39:24 PaulFertser: javispedro: any better idea (alloc scheme)? Nov 07 17:39:44 "plain" as in, smallest set of modifications needed to make it work usably. Nov 07 17:39:56 PaulFertser: javispedro: AIUI we got 8bit major, 8bit minor Nov 07 17:40:39 DocScrutinizer: my question would be "why this does not work the way pata/sata disks work" (aka via scsi subsystem) Nov 07 17:40:42 DocScrutinizer: no, that's up to the wise guys to allocate major/minors sanely. Nov 07 17:40:59 PaulFertser: javispedro: if we're going to code several cards and their partitions into 8bit minor, we're limited to any sheme like that Nov 07 17:41:23 also you get all those nice SCSI-reserved majors =) Nov 07 17:41:40 cat /proc/devices | grep -c sd : 16 :) Nov 07 17:41:53 oh, useless use of cat. /me loses karma points. Nov 07 17:42:28 chrissbx, there is a zsh tgz on talk.maemo.org with "No patches installed. Just plain zsh-4.3.10 from their ftp with configure flags from archlinux and --prefix in /opt." Nov 07 17:42:46 Ultimate weirdness. Deinstalling pidgin returned the sound, ... Nov 07 17:42:48 Hmmm. Nov 07 17:42:59 I'd vote for a 16/16 Nov 07 17:43:01 yacc: wild guess: pidgin daemon grabbing alsa device exclusively Nov 07 17:43:07 Could it be that pidgin somehow claimed the hardware audio device or something like that? Nov 07 17:43:13 :) Nov 07 17:43:14 wish suggests one should be able to run regular debs? (But I am not sure) Nov 07 17:43:25 javispedro, well, it has worked for weeks, and now it stopped :) Nov 07 17:43:36 javispedro: for scsi devices it's 4 bits, the limit for partitions is 15 anyway. Nov 07 17:43:40 I'm losing audio too for some reason Nov 07 17:43:48 javispedro, I can see how extras-devel is not necessarily something for "normal users" ;) Nov 07 17:43:50 missed 3 calls the other day cause of it Nov 07 17:44:22 javispedro: at least that's what's written for the 2.6.28 kernel. Nov 07 17:44:24 sjk: wish? You can have Debian in a chroot, see "easy debian" or some such. Nov 07 17:44:30 PaulFertser: ah, didn't know. Nov 07 17:45:10 chrissbx, which*... sorry, I get all messed up ircing from the mobile Nov 07 17:45:43 sjk: you could also try to install on maemo, but I guess it will at least want to slurp most of the Debian base packages, which will run into conflicts with files from maemo packages I guess. Nov 07 17:45:57 javispedro, I wonder if there is some place where I can see logfiles? Would make understanding such a malfunction much easier if some process would have complained "dieing because cannot get the sound device", ... Nov 07 17:46:11 sjk: that's just an idea, and a bad one, don't do it if you care about not breaking stuff! Nov 07 17:46:15 chrissbx, nod Nov 07 17:46:35 yacc: you need to install sysklogd and monitor /var/log/syslog Nov 07 17:46:44 yacc: there should be instructions for that on wiki, search syslog Nov 07 17:46:47 syslog did not show anything, ... Nov 07 17:46:59 DocScrutinizer: for usb subsystem they implemented some sort of dynamic minors allocation. Nov 07 17:47:09 yacc: nothing at all? syslog on a normal system has a shitload of noise. Nov 07 17:47:30 PaulFertser: sounds way smarter Nov 07 17:47:41 javispedro, anyway, currently pidgin in extras-devel is broken, libpurple is incompatible with pidgin, claiming both the same file for themselves :) Nov 07 17:47:56 yacc: don't ask me, I'm no matainer of that :) Nov 07 17:47:59 javispedro, no, nothing as in nothing that was easily recognizable as an error message. Nov 07 17:49:51 yacc: odds are the process silently ignores a failing audio_open() Nov 07 17:50:11 yacc: even worse, it might succeed and then block Nov 07 17:53:18 yacc: nvm, forgot your initial issue Nov 07 17:54:10 DocScrutinizer: mute phone app, and mute mediaplayer claiming that it cannot play "that media format", that being in this case mp3. Nov 07 17:54:34 has pulseaudio crashed maybe? Nov 07 17:54:34 yep Nov 07 17:55:43 or pidgin using some "weird" way to output sound. Like in, a frequent "where's /dev/dsp" to be found here in this chan... :-S Nov 07 17:56:44 DocScrutinizer: No idea, now it's back to working, even after I've reinstalled pidgin manually (it needed a --force on dpkg) Nov 07 17:56:45 * DocScrutinizer *loves* the 5198 ways to mess up sound available on a recent system with PA shit Nov 07 17:57:23 DocScrutinizer: Ah, you haven't even yet tried to make to different users to access one PA server, ... Nov 07 17:58:01 DocScrutinizer: In theory cool thing. In practice on an ubuntu box it took me weeks before the pain was big enough that I fixed it correctly, ... Nov 07 17:58:33 DocScrutinizer: Fascinating pidgin is running and I've got still sound, ... Nov 07 17:58:36 yacc: distros do not want you do that, they want one user owning audio device Nov 07 17:58:48 you bet I didn't. Usually deinstalling PA and fixing ALSA proper is first thing to do for audio on a box Nov 07 17:59:06 yacc, it's not pigeon Nov 07 17:59:10 * javispedro hates ALSA with passion since reading just a single page of their client libraries documentation :) Nov 07 17:59:18 I hope it's not a bug in PR1.3, since again, it's happened to me twice already Nov 07 17:59:25 the PA one is a mess, but their "simple" one is ... simple. Nov 07 17:59:49 evidently, see yacc :-P Nov 07 17:59:53 ALSA "simple" API is so fugly that even their own devs say "no one uses it correctly" (mixer api for ex.) Nov 07 18:00:11 javispedro, yeah, but I'm a little bit stubborn, I don't see why a distribution should change my way of doing things, especially if I've been running two X servers to split private from work for almost a decade now. Nov 07 18:00:38 DocScrutinizer: at the end of the story, I'm going to side with RST38h and demand my /dev/dsp back. With hardware mixing if possible. Nov 07 18:01:10 fair enough Nov 07 18:01:19 yacc: the eternal debate. Nov 07 18:01:30 yacc: get gentoo. Nov 07 18:01:44 javispedro, well, not 100% sure, "something" is clearly needed, one of the most irritating things is installing a new desktop environment and trying to figure out what program/function caused to play sound just now, ... Nov 07 18:02:03 javispedro, gentoo is not really to my taste ;) Nov 07 18:02:17 javispedro, I see no point in compiling everything myself, ... Nov 07 18:02:19 yacc: I recently switched to gentoo not for being a source-based distribution, but because you get packages the nearest to upstream as possible. Nov 07 18:03:00 specially with certain use flags :) Nov 07 18:03:07 javispedro, how so? Nov 07 18:03:46 yacc: "how so"? Nov 07 18:03:58 use flags and nearest to upstream? Nov 07 18:04:23 eg -bindist and/or branding Nov 07 18:04:39 no ugly icons, but gnome default ones. Nov 07 18:07:15 btw, what charset do we use in this channel? Seems logs use UTF-8, so I guess that's it. Nov 07 18:08:42 javispedro: is it you that i need to pat on the back for preenv? :) Nov 07 18:09:25 Noobmonk3y: I guess... Nov 07 18:09:34 hehe, congrats - very impressed! Nov 07 18:10:11 pretty sure that app has single handly helped fix one of the maemo holes - games! :) (Well of that quality!) Nov 07 18:10:18 heh :) Nov 07 18:10:49 still, not impressed at the quality of the average game. Nov 07 18:11:04 save for x-plane. I love it. Then again I'm kinda a flight sim fan.. Nov 07 18:11:05 meh, tis relatively new and works well ;) - i'll allow a few bugs lol! Nov 07 18:11:12 ooo not bought that 1 yet Nov 07 18:11:34 i love settlers, not great with no double touch screen thingy, but overall good fun Nov 07 18:12:22 never tried Nov 07 18:13:12 :P Nov 07 18:13:14 The capcha on http://talk.maemo.org/register.php is broken. So I cannot register. Nov 07 18:13:36 captcha Nov 07 18:13:54 * lcuk clicked the hamster and it appeared to take to next step Nov 07 18:13:57 whats not working for you? Nov 07 18:14:00 or are you not human? Nov 07 18:14:14 Hum, for me no pictures appear. Nov 07 18:14:14 a hamster? :) Nov 07 18:14:25 Oh, privoxy maybe. Nov 07 18:14:45 * lcuk fills cheeks Nov 07 18:16:05 * Noobmonk3y looks at the hamster..... Nov 07 18:16:23 bloody hamsters Nov 07 18:17:46 * Noobmonk3y doesnt understand qt mobility Nov 07 18:23:38 Noobmonk3y: anything in particulary? Nov 07 18:23:48 alterego: erm, using it lol Nov 07 18:23:51 I've had quite a bit of experience with the API's. Nov 07 18:23:57 :) Nov 07 18:23:57 finally got the right qt creator :) Nov 07 18:24:01 Heh Nov 07 18:24:07 so i'm now actually compiling in qt4.7 Nov 07 18:24:14 yay! only taken a day lol Nov 07 18:24:31 so now i was gonna try something simple with qt mobility, but it doesnt seem to like me Nov 07 18:24:45 What kernel are you running, the one from 2008? Nov 07 18:24:49 for example, if i add #include Nov 07 18:24:59 it says file/folder not found in qt before i even compile Nov 07 18:25:04 (yellow squiggly line) Nov 07 18:25:41 Noobmonk3y, I think you need to edit the .pro file Nov 07 18:25:52 CONFIG += mobility or something Nov 07 18:26:17 QT += core gui maemo5 network Nov 07 18:26:17 CONFIG += mobility Nov 07 18:26:17 MOBILITY = systeminfo Nov 07 18:26:21 thats my current one :) Nov 07 18:26:35 (and i'm trying to use the systeminfo one lol) Nov 07 18:26:40 Looks fine Nov 07 18:26:50 You need to have QTM_USE_NAMESPACE Nov 07 18:26:58 was using this http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.0/quickstart.html Nov 07 18:26:58 in your source file to use the mobility namespace. Nov 07 18:27:14 Ah right. Nov 07 18:27:32 it's in there Nov 07 18:28:35 makes me think something else isnt set up correctly Nov 07 18:29:01 Well, what is your error Nov 07 18:29:48 well, i'm stuck at the squigly yellow lines Nov 07 18:29:59 #include = no such file or directory Nov 07 18:30:29 and wherever i put QTM_USE_NAMESPACE i get an error Nov 07 18:30:35 Hrm, pastie.org your .pro file for me :) Nov 07 18:31:30 http://pastebin.com/gAMNSMhj Nov 07 18:34:18 can't see anything majorly wrong with it :| Nov 07 18:34:37 i'm assuming once it is in there, qt recognises it throughout the rest of the code, therefore no quiggly lines? Nov 07 18:34:44 Yeah Nov 07 18:34:46 Should do Nov 07 18:34:57 Using madde? Nov 07 18:35:06 erm, using whatever qt creator uses Nov 07 18:35:08 lol Nov 07 18:35:21 have madde on my device Nov 07 18:35:24 Wait, bottom left of Qt creator, have you set maemo as the target? Nov 07 18:35:46 its going straight to the device Nov 07 18:35:49 runs normally fine Nov 07 18:36:04 only errors when i add the mobility stuff Nov 07 18:36:38 i have an n900 - it doesn't update its time (i.e. from daylight savings or from changing time zone) unless i turn it off and then back on - is there a better way of doing this? Nov 07 18:37:00 bbiab Nov 07 18:37:26 okies Nov 07 18:37:48 maher: go into flight mode and back. Do a phonecall. Install ntpd Nov 07 18:39:12 N900 'automatic' time is merely based on GSM date/time msgs, which depending on your carrier, may come or may not come or regular basis, on traffic like registration/call, or never Nov 07 18:39:32 DocScrutinizer: is there a bug filed on this? if i set an alarm the day before daylight savings it would be nice if it went off at the right time... Nov 07 18:39:39 "automatic" time has nothing to do with the device automatically updating timezone based on the date though, DocScrutinizer Nov 07 18:40:05 duh, what? Nov 07 18:41:02 "update automatically" is the option to use GSM time transmissions (and doesnt work properly anyway), the device should (and at least in my case does) switch between daylight savings and not depending on the date regardless of whether update automatically is ticked Nov 07 18:41:28 DST switching should be handled on-system, without being reliant on GSM. Timezone setting is yet another topic Nov 07 18:42:47 i'm confused - in Settings -> Date and time it says my time zone is GMT-5 - but it seems to know about daylight savings time - I would really like my timezone to be US EST (with the daylight savings adjustments) Nov 07 18:44:12 maher: if "auto" works for you, then fine. If not you'll disable it, and might want to install ntpd instead Nov 07 18:44:18 nidO: so your device automatically changes for daylight savings? how do you get it to do that? Nov 07 18:44:39 though ntpd isn't recommended by me for devices with internittent connectivity Nov 07 18:44:42 well, it just did it itself a week ago Nov 07 18:44:49 and testing it now, it does the same Nov 07 18:45:03 if i switch the date back a month, it immediately shows itself as BST (GMT+1) Nov 07 18:45:14 then correct the date, and it shows GMT. Nov 07 18:45:46 ok - when i change the location it wants to reboot the device Nov 07 18:46:24 ok - when I change the location, then I'm gone for dinner o/ Nov 07 18:47:51 nidO: how do you change the date? Nov 07 18:48:22 by clicking the date then entering a new one. if its greyed out for you, untick "update automatically" Nov 07 18:49:37 nidO: ok - if i put the date back to yesterday it doesn't change the clock by an hour Nov 07 18:49:53 does anyone here have infocmp (from proper ncurses-bin) built for maemo5? Nov 07 18:50:53 i just need this one exe so compiling whole ncurses in the scratchbox seems a bit of an overkill Nov 07 18:51:53 lol Nov 07 18:51:57 WebOS 2 already ships Qt Nov 07 18:52:03 and even some system apps link with it... Nov 07 18:52:09 what are you up to, Jaaksi? =) Nov 07 18:55:42 javispedro: WebOS based on MeeGo, at some point, p'raps Nov 07 18:57:17 who knows... Nov 07 19:13:30 crap my facebrick crapped out. Facebook no longer authorizes it. Comes back with an error. Nov 07 19:14:01 anybody knows where does facebrick store its settings. I might try to salvage something from my backup. Nov 07 19:16:27 isnt DST location based ? do you have a location in use ? Nov 07 19:34:06 Come on, for proper DST handling just set proper timezone, exactly like it should be done on any unix-like system... Nov 07 19:34:52 * thresh waves Nov 07 19:35:01 ~pr1.3 Nov 07 19:35:01 somebody said pr1.3 was the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update Nov 07 19:35:09 kthx Nov 07 19:35:45 We're working on a theme but; make: maemo-optify: Command not found when building the pkg. What's wrong? Nov 07 19:36:22 Aranel: Building it where/ Nov 07 19:36:31 Jaffa: scratchbox Nov 07 19:37:23 Aranel: I'd guess your rootstrap is really old, and doesn't include the maemo-optify addition Nov 07 19:37:39 Aranel: You should just be able to `apt-get install maemo-optify' as a workaround Nov 07 19:39:20 Jaffa: E: Couldn't find package maemo-optify Nov 07 19:39:40 Jaffa: how can I update it to newest? Do I have to start over? Nov 07 19:40:55 Is "armel" the matching Debian architecture for the n8x0? Nov 07 19:41:18 Just double checking, forgot which endianess is which. Nov 07 19:42:23 Aranel: More info around http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/re-maemo-optify-autobuilder--opt-022/. If you're getting 'not found' it sounds like you've not got the right repos installed. Nov 07 19:42:32 Aranel: Not got time to help, though, I'm afraid. Nov 07 19:42:49 Jaffa: thanks anyway. :) Nov 07 19:43:26 duh I hate when nokia doesnt allow me to wget the binary image Nov 07 19:43:34 Jaffa: If I upload it straight to extras-devel and If it kills somebody or starts a war, am I responsible about it? Nov 07 19:44:03 Aranel: you can use the autobuilder optifier Nov 07 19:44:09 just echo auto > debian/optify Nov 07 19:45:28 Aranel: imagine it leads to a butterfly flapping its wings! Nov 07 19:49:05 javispedro: ok now I'm doing it :) can you share your /etc/apt/sources.list with me? It seems like some entries are missing on mine. Nov 07 19:49:40 chrissbx: lol xD Nov 07 19:51:35 Aranel: http://repository.maemo.org/ Nov 07 19:52:05 Aranel: read "Repositories for Maemo SDKs". Also enable extras-devel. Nov 07 19:53:18 So as of PR1.3 my bluetooth headset no longer works with phone calls on my n900.... Any suggestions on why this may be? Nov 07 19:53:46 Have you paired it again? Nov 07 19:54:09 Yep. Nov 07 19:54:12 It works for music Nov 07 19:54:15 and my GPS Nov 07 19:54:20 but doesn't work at all for phone calls Nov 07 19:54:20 moin Nov 07 19:54:22 Weird. Nov 07 19:54:27 >not a phone Nov 07 19:54:28 Well, no idea, never used BT headset Nov 07 19:54:31 stock pulseaudio? Nov 07 19:54:35 have you tried turning it off and on again? Nov 07 19:54:36 delete, then pair new Nov 07 19:54:38 Stock pulse audio Nov 07 19:54:55 Don't think I've done that yet doc let me try it Nov 07 19:55:15 call is SDP, everything else A2DP Nov 07 19:55:30 eh? Nov 07 19:55:34 SCP* Nov 07 19:55:49 eh? Nov 07 19:56:12 HSP/HFP both using SCO audio if that's the alpha soup you are looking for :D Nov 07 19:56:13 ds3: bi-directional exchange with a BT headset is done in a very different way. Nov 07 19:56:32 Hrm, I'd quite like to get my laptop to act as a bluetooth headset for my N900 Nov 07 19:56:34 That'd be cool. Nov 07 19:56:37 ds3: and the guy says it works for music for him (A2DP). Nov 07 19:56:54 removing the pair and re-adding it did not work Docscrutinizer51 :-/ Nov 07 19:56:58 SCO, sorry Nov 07 19:56:59 yes, and I think the audio is physically routed differently Nov 07 19:57:33 What is ever more f***ed up, is that when I get a phone call the headset rings still - but when I press answer it goes dead Nov 07 19:57:49 did something screw with a McBSP? Nov 07 19:57:58 McBSP? Nov 07 19:58:20 the synchronous serial port on the OMAP that handles the audio Nov 07 19:58:56 Not that I am aware of Nov 07 19:59:00 how would I check that? Nov 07 19:59:07 Jef91: are you using a stock kernel? Nov 07 19:59:33 alterego: I was surprised that Win7 seems to come with that feature Nov 07 19:59:45 2.6.28.10power40 ds3 Nov 07 19:59:49 alterego: (it might be oem crap actually, don't remember) Nov 07 19:59:58 Not if that is stock or of something I installed added that Nov 07 20:00:00 Heh, cool Nov 07 20:00:10 Jef91: that's the poweruser kernel from the look of it Nov 07 20:00:16 Can't find anything on the net about doing it under Linux :/ Nov 07 20:00:23 wonder if your problem happens with the stock nokia kernel Nov 07 20:00:32 Any idea how I revert it? Nov 07 20:00:44 donno, the last time I tried it, I had to reflash :( Nov 07 20:01:54 I don't see why the kernel would kill just audio from the calls though Nov 07 20:03:32 I don't either, but we can't support you if you're using dodgy builds :P Nov 07 20:03:50 pff Nov 07 20:03:58 Yea yea. Nov 07 20:04:06 I'll just deal with it I guess, or maybe flash back to PR1.2 Nov 07 20:04:14 didn't notice anything new in 1.3 Nov 07 20:04:51 *shrug* Nov 07 20:05:08 now if I can only find a low profile microUSB connector Nov 07 20:09:14 Jef91, or go back to stock kernel Nov 07 20:09:43 MohammadAG how? Nov 07 20:10:15 Jef91, there's an icon in the app menu Nov 07 20:11:03 When using mount -o loop img /mnt/somewhere, it says it "failed"; now I realize there is no "losetup" binary. But /dev/loop* exist. Nov 07 20:11:18 Does maemo just not support loop mounts? Nov 07 20:12:11 Well, /bin/mount is a symlink to busybox, so it seems likely just the userspace not supporting it; Nov 07 20:12:17 but, how would you solve that? Nov 07 20:13:55 what does easydebian do here? Nov 07 20:14:08 chrissbx, loop mounts work, load the needed file system module Nov 07 20:14:16 if img is an iso, you need isofs.ko Nov 07 20:14:17 etc Nov 07 20:14:27 It's ext2 Nov 07 20:14:45 maybe force -t ext3 ? Nov 07 20:14:47 "cannot parse modules.dep", wow Nov 07 20:15:39 modprobe -l silently returns nothing. Nov 07 20:15:47 depmod isn't there. Nov 07 20:15:58 Hell I wish I'd just have plain Debian here. Nov 07 20:16:06 so, install easydebian. Nov 07 20:16:18 No, full Debian, not a chroot. Nov 07 20:16:23 what's the difference? Nov 07 20:16:25 chrissbx: works for me. Nov 07 20:16:37 chrissbx: mount -o loop -t ext2 tmp.bin /mnt Nov 07 20:16:38 That depmod would be there, loop mounts would just work... Nov 07 20:16:49 and again, after restoring a backup, appmanager doesnt do a shit Nov 07 20:16:50 javispedro: also, that the kernel wouldn't be 2 years old.. Nov 07 20:16:53 wth Nov 07 20:16:55 They do, but you sometimes have to explicitly state the filesystem. Nov 07 20:17:05 chrissbx: hahah, what debian are you talking about? Nov 07 20:17:32 alterego: stable or testing, whatever you prefer Nov 07 20:17:42 chrissbx: depmod would be here, loop mounts would also work in a debian chroot. Nov 07 20:17:50 Seriously though, I just created a 4Mb file with dd, made an ext2 filesystem on it and mounted, all on the N900 Nov 07 20:18:13 chrissbx: in fact, one of the suggestions is that if you're missing any debian tool in messybox, just chroot into debian and run it. even losetup; its actions would appear Outside the chroot also. Nov 07 20:18:14 alterego: because stable has been released 2009-02-14, which is several months *after* the last kernel from Nokia. Nov 07 20:18:32 alterego: and Debian fixes security holes in their stable kernels, too *!* Nov 07 20:18:32 btw, cya. Nov 07 20:18:33 oh yeah, it was doing stuff Nov 07 20:18:41 but not telling me nor opening any window Nov 07 20:18:44 :/ Nov 07 20:18:45 chrissbx: and nokia; this kernel is not 2.6.28 but 2.6.28.something Nov 07 20:19:26 The irony is, that the exact thing I want to do is run a Debian chroot. Nov 07 20:19:28 2.6.28-hostmode2 for me ... Nov 07 20:19:34 It's on that "mnt" loop file. Nov 07 20:19:36 chrissbx: it works Nov 07 20:19:46 chrissbx: what command are you using to mount your loop? Nov 07 20:20:08 Because if it doesn't work for you, you're doing something wrong. Nov 07 20:20:25 cd /mnt; mount -t ext2 -o loop,noatime /media/mmc2/DEBIAN/img debian Nov 07 20:20:46 What's your command? And your filesystem type? Nov 07 20:21:07 mount -o loop -t ext2 tmp.bin /mnt Nov 07 20:21:31 Where did you get 'img' from? Nov 07 20:21:43 (there's stock ext2/3 support btw) Nov 07 20:21:54 Yeah, exactly. Nov 07 20:21:58 first Nov 07 20:21:59 I created it from my laptop. Nov 07 20:22:05 where you managed to get that error message Nov 07 20:22:06 So it makes me think, his image isn't actually what he thinks it is ^.^ Nov 07 20:22:11 ehh Nov 07 20:22:16 wrong Nov 07 20:22:24 what error message do you get? Nov 07 20:22:39 just failed? Nov 07 20:22:43 what does dmesg say? Nov 07 20:23:02 It says "mount: mounting /dev/loop0 on /mnt/debian failed" Nov 07 20:23:03 also, if depmod is missing then... depmod -a? Nov 07 20:23:12 Nothing related in dmesg Nov 07 20:23:29 No depmod command. Nov 07 20:23:44 cat /proc/fileststems | freo ext Nov 07 20:23:51 chrissbx, as root Nov 07 20:23:53 cat /proc/filesystems | freo ext Nov 07 20:24:02 cat /proc/filesystems | grep* ext Nov 07 20:24:13 that make me man freo Nov 07 20:24:22 nothing, no ext2 in that proc file Nov 07 20:24:23 chrissbx, fyi, depmod works for me Nov 07 20:24:28 Hm, I can't seem to rename files in ~/MyDocs/DCIM. Anyone know why that is? Nov 07 20:24:43 it's not in user's $PATH though, /sbin/depmod Nov 07 20:24:45 or do it as root Nov 07 20:25:01 chrissbx: what kernel are you using? Nov 07 20:25:01 MohammadAG: there's no /sbin/depmod on my device. Nov 07 20:25:49 Linux Nokia-N800-43-7 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Tue Oct 14 11:25:25 EEST 2008 armv6l unknown Nov 07 20:26:02 hmm Nov 07 20:26:06 n800 Nov 07 20:26:47 chrissbx: use modprobe .. Nov 07 20:26:47 very few people are still alive who used those Nov 07 20:27:12 This is a practically fresh install with flasher-3.5 -F maemo/RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R Nov 07 20:27:46 I can't really comment though, I am using a custom kernel at the moment. Nov 07 20:27:46 alterego: as I said, modprobe doesn't work, as it seems because the module index is broken, and there's no depmod to fix it. Nov 07 20:27:56 oh, n800 Nov 07 20:27:58 alterego: how do you do that? Nov 07 20:28:02 you could've said that before... Nov 07 20:28:09 :D Nov 07 20:28:16 alterego: because I really really want to run Debian directly on it Nov 07 20:28:30 I wouldn't. Nov 07 20:28:40 You'd lose the ability to do, well, a lot of stuff. Nov 07 20:28:45 Use the debian chroot .. Nov 07 20:28:57 Or do what I do, buy a debian server and ssh to it :P Nov 07 20:29:42 alterego: if you can run a custom kernel, and still have the features you want, then why wouldn't I have those features with Debian other than missing userspace? Nov 07 20:30:07 I can copy over the binaries it really need if necessary; but also, I don't mind loosing functionality, Nov 07 20:30:37 Because, like you said, our kernel is old. Nov 07 20:30:39 I want to use this just for a couple purposes, but I do care whether it is really secure. Nov 07 20:31:11 otoh, you could port the meego kernel and do your own debian build around it I suppose. Nov 07 20:31:17 The meego kernel is much more up-to-date. Nov 07 20:31:18 alterego: what, you run a custom kernel that's old, or what do you mean now? Nov 07 20:31:32 Which kernel are you running? Nov 07 20:31:38 All the N900 maemo custom kernels are based on the same kernel version. Nov 07 20:31:46 2.6.28 Nov 07 20:31:53 Which customizations? Nov 07 20:32:00 Yourself, or? Nov 07 20:32:09 Built from sources? Which patches?.. Nov 07 20:32:12 Well, the one I'm running at the moment has a mod for getting the N900 into USB host mode. Nov 07 20:32:23 Built from the maemo kernel source package. Nov 07 20:34:21 How can you decide whether a cable advertised as N900 charger cable will charge indeed ? I have a power strip with a USB charging port and the N900 does not charge from there. It charges from the charger of the nook. Nov 07 20:34:46 I can honestly say I have no idea what you just said :P Nov 07 20:34:53 * alterego wanders off to do some more coding. Nov 07 20:34:58 chx: n900 uses standard usb charger Nov 07 20:35:04 chx: where d+ and d- lines are shorted Nov 07 20:35:17 yeah i read that. Nov 07 20:35:25 chx: so as long as that's the case + you have 5V on supply lines it will charge Nov 07 20:35:55 Yeah. I presume this port does not feature such a shorting. Is there a cable that lends a hand? Nov 07 20:36:20 i don't think so Nov 07 20:36:25 just open that power strip Nov 07 20:36:28 and fix a problem Nov 07 20:37:26 i no longer have soldering equipment nor the willingness to use it :( Nov 07 20:43:35 for example, http://www.boxwave.com/products/ipodchargingadapter/ipod-charging-adapter-apple-ipod-classic-120gb_3298.htm#features wouldnt this do the trick? I can't find squat what it actually does Nov 07 20:54:38 What happens if you connect a CA-100 and a CA-146C together? Nov 07 20:55:37 I bet that will trigger charging. Nov 07 20:55:49 can be had from DX for $5.60 Nov 07 20:58:44 Could someone please help me. I have a n810 flashed yesterday with ver 5.2008.43-7. Is this the most current for this device ? i cannot extend memory to the card. I cannot load maps because it says there is no card. under memory i see the internal and external cards, neither is set read only. Nov 07 21:18:23 oh no, i'm in HEL Nov 07 21:18:52 hi there, is the source code for the flasher available somewhere? Nov 07 21:19:05 T_X: no, nokia decided you do not need that. Nov 07 21:19:05 I only found the binaries on http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php Nov 07 21:19:10 ? Nov 07 21:19:17 T_X: but there's 0xFFFF that allows flashing n900. Nov 07 21:19:26 T_X: nokia is evil too, aren't you surprised? Nov 07 21:19:38 But some nice folks reversed the protocol and released 0xFFFF. Nov 07 21:19:46 gpgp: it's the latest. are you sure you can write to the cards? Nov 07 21:19:58 sorry, not that familiar with gpl so far.. do they only have to provide the toolchain + flashing utilitiy or also the source code of those? Nov 07 21:20:26 thanks PaulFertser, I'll have a look for the 0xFFFF Nov 07 21:20:41 T_X: they have no obligations to provide the source for the flashing utility as far as i know. Nov 07 21:20:41 PaulFertser: they got it flashing on the N900 now? i thought 0xFFFF could only read nand information Nov 07 21:21:01 the thing is, need to reflash the device but I won't install or run any binary shit on my laptop Nov 07 21:21:06 T_X: http://hg.youterm.com/0xFFFF Nov 07 21:21:15 b-man`: they got it flashing long time ago. Nov 07 21:21:42 b-man`: that's the only tool i used for flashing n900 actually, never tried to contaminate my laptop with that ``flasher'' shit. Nov 07 21:22:22 ah Nov 07 21:22:36 I'm also quite disappointed of the sandbox sdk stuff. when I tried it first it did not work either. guess the scripts or something is having trouble with my debian Nov 07 21:22:44 which is using a 64bit kernel, but 32bit userspace tools Nov 07 21:22:47 scratchbox. Nov 07 21:22:55 eh scratchbox, sorry :) Nov 07 21:25:32 T_X: probably you'll be more willing to join SHR (an OE-based distro) or Meego. Nov 07 21:26:11 javispedro: none of them are checked read only but it seems that there are old map folders on the internal card which are read only Nov 07 21:30:26 if you don't want to run sourceless binaries, then the n900 isn't for you Nov 07 21:30:56 * timeless_xchat can't name many platforms w/ open cell-mo's Nov 07 21:35:41 T_X: btw, beware, sandbox can install proprietary crap too. Nov 07 21:35:55 T_X: e.g. the tool that creates fiasco images iirc. Nov 07 21:36:09 scratchbox by itself is open Nov 07 21:36:16 as long as you don't enable nokia-binaries repo Nov 07 21:36:25 and enabling it is non-trivial (requires eula and all that) Nov 07 21:37:36 javispedro: how one can create a fiasco image then? Nov 07 21:38:03 PaulFertser: you know the answer.... Nov 07 21:38:11 not that I'd like to create a fiasco image for anything, btw. Nov 07 21:38:23 javispedro: sorry, i'm really a foreigner here, so i do not know it, honestly. Nov 07 21:38:36 fiasco images aren't required Nov 07 21:38:50 PaulFertser: well, if it's true that the tool that creates fisaco images is non-free, then, by signing the eula and getting propietary "crap". Nov 07 21:38:53 flasher and friends accept pieces instead... Nov 07 21:39:24 javispedro: and tbh i do not care, maemo was always some loosy fork and its scratchbox is a weird way to manage development. I know OE, Debian, Gentoo. Scratchbox, meh, wth is that and who needs that? Nov 07 21:39:53 PaulFertser: I am a scratchbox fan, and not the only one. Nov 07 21:40:00 paul: if you don't care, then why are you here? Nov 07 21:40:15 PaulFertser: it serves a need (easy cross-building by people who don't have a clue about autocrap) Nov 07 21:40:21 s/by/for/ Nov 07 21:40:21 javispedro meant: PaulFertser: it serves a need (easy cross-building for people who don't have a clue about autocrap) Nov 07 21:40:22 timeless_xchat: because of the promising device Nov 07 21:40:36 javispedro: have you tried other systems i mentioned? Nov 07 21:40:46 PaulFertser: all of them by now. Nov 07 21:41:05 PaulFertser: OE requires changes to source; half of the Debian packages do not crossbuild cleanly, same for Gentoo (even with pandora overlay) Nov 07 21:41:13 javispedro: that's true. Nov 07 21:41:49 * timeless_xchat kicks here-and-now Nov 07 21:41:56 it doesn't know where i am! Nov 07 21:43:55 javispedro: i know quite some people who choosed OE for cross-development. Same about Debian and Gentoo. Who uses scratchbox other than maemo users? Even OpenSUSE build service used by Mer is so much better. Nov 07 21:44:01 is here-and-now broken? Nov 07 21:44:19 PaulFertser: read the scratchbox ML recently? :) Nov 07 21:44:24 paul: you're totally missing the point Nov 07 21:44:43 javispedro: sure no, i'm not a maemo fan. All i did is working on the hostmode. Nov 07 21:44:48 it isn't about people actively choosing good technology Nov 07 21:44:59 it's about people who don't understand the technology Nov 07 21:45:03 javispedro: and i noticed that nokia devs can't provide sane patches to the kernel, only some loosy changelog instead. Nov 07 21:45:10 but who will need *something* Nov 07 21:45:23 PaulFertser: not scratchbox's fault =) Nov 07 21:45:23 something that will just magically work Nov 07 21:45:37 javispedro: that's just part of my impression from "maemo" Nov 07 21:45:41 without requiring them to learn irrelevant crap Nov 07 21:46:02 paul: do yourself a favor Nov 07 21:46:11 don't misattribute your gripes Nov 07 21:46:18 it will not win you friends Nov 07 21:46:28 timeless_xchat: i'm not seeking friends at #maemo, sorry. Nov 07 21:46:41 scratchbox has many faults Nov 07 21:46:56 so does nokia's dev process Nov 07 21:48:04 anyone is willing to add zRTP support to gstreamer, OTR to telepathy and GPG to modest? I know some people who would like to provide some sponsorship for the project Nov 07 21:48:27 As far as i can tell the best and the most capable part of the maemo community moved on to Mer and then to MeeGo. I know they care and they didn't like scratchbox. I trust their opinions. Nov 07 21:48:36 infobot, otr? Nov 07 21:48:41 infobot, zrtp? Nov 07 21:48:58 paul: i don't like scratchbox Nov 07 21:49:12 but that doesn't mean i blame it for poor changelogs Nov 07 21:49:21 or for lack of an open source flasher Nov 07 21:49:22 Of-the-Record, the way to give both encryption and deniability to the IM conversations. Nov 07 21:49:27 PaulFertser: key issues with it is that it's a nightmare to maintain. but note that the way they use obs is similar to the way a user uses sbox Nov 07 21:49:38 or for a secretary who didn't properly book my hotel Nov 07 21:49:49 or for want of a pony! Nov 07 21:49:52 timeless_xchat: i do not blame scratchbox for that, i'm sorry if i wasn't clear about that. Nov 07 21:49:56 * timeless_xchat wants a pony Nov 07 21:50:58 so otr is basically a way for each contact to publish an inbound key Nov 07 21:51:06 and people encrypt using it? Nov 07 21:51:42 timeless_xchat: yes but then it's published and so the conversation becomes totally unsigned and unverifiable after it happened. Nov 07 21:52:12 which is published? the private key? Nov 07 21:52:32 timeless_xchat: yes, iirc. Nov 07 21:53:01 * timeless_xchat shrugs Nov 07 21:53:14 the chat app is basically a web page Nov 07 21:53:24 Nobody can claim you really said something after that, because anyone can fake it. Nov 07 21:53:27 if you can do your crypto in javascript Nov 07 21:53:41 But while you're still talking, you know for sure whom you're talking with. Nov 07 21:53:43 you can implement this stuff Nov 07 21:54:05 w/o touching telepathy Nov 07 21:54:18 as for gpg... Nov 07 21:54:27 modest is open... Nov 07 21:54:38 it's probably about 500 lines of work Nov 07 21:55:57 actually, you'd probably spend most of the time in tinymail Nov 07 21:56:10 PaulFertser, even that first claim is incorrect. you can only go as far as saying you are speaking directly to the person with access to a specific account Nov 07 21:56:26 there is still no verifiable way of knowing who is really at the other end of the keyboard Nov 07 21:56:27 javispedro: (the way they use obs) but the base for the scratchbox is some outdated fork, and you can choose the base for obs as you like, including recent sane upstream releases. Nov 07 21:56:42 PaulFertser: that's the nightmarish part of sbox, upgrading it. Nov 07 21:56:45 lcuk: sure thing Nov 07 21:56:46 timeless_xchat: you can do crypto in js Nov 07 21:56:51 you could do that w/ scratchbox too Nov 07 21:56:58 timeless_xchat: but it's not very fast Nov 07 21:57:00 jacekowski : i said that, no? Nov 07 21:57:13 you said if Nov 07 21:57:42 well if meaning "if you are a coder able to do" Nov 07 21:57:57 timeless_xchat: does the chat app use gtkhtml or browser-eal? Nov 07 21:58:31 the latter Nov 07 21:58:49 ... was thinking that if you really want to use crypto in js you could potentially export a C++ crypto class to js Nov 07 21:59:08 via XPConnect or similar, if that's even available. Nov 07 21:59:18 you could Nov 07 21:59:33 you could also just do the work in telepathy Nov 07 22:00:19 * timeless_xchat shrugs Nov 07 22:00:26 kinda depends on the goal Nov 07 22:00:47 do you want to persist the crypted or plain message? Nov 07 22:03:02 tinymail is http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/tinymail/libtinymail/ more or less.. Nov 07 22:03:44 you could do crypto in modest too, i suppose Nov 07 22:04:00 but that leaves the other ui's in the cold Nov 07 22:09:12 how stable are the Qt4.7 python bindings? Nov 07 22:09:24 id prefer pyqt rather than pyside Nov 07 22:10:22 I'm so tired of the stupid N900 crashing Finder.app. Nov 07 22:10:27 stable as in crashy? Nov 07 22:10:45 generalantilles: how's it manage that? Nov 07 22:11:03 improper eject? Nov 07 22:11:07 Hell if I know. Nov 07 22:11:08 No Nov 07 22:11:13 When browsing directories Nov 07 22:11:23 It'll fail to load a folder every once and a while Nov 07 22:11:25 got a stack? Nov 07 22:11:29 Which gives you a spinning beach ball. Nov 07 22:11:47 Then it wont restart with a -10810 error Nov 07 22:11:50 Which requires a reboot Nov 07 22:12:01 awesome Nov 07 22:12:02 GeneralAntilles: it's not n900 crashing it Nov 07 22:12:03 Snow Leopard bug that's brought out by various things. Nov 07 22:12:10 GeneralAntilles: it's finder.app that has a problem Nov 07 22:12:19 i'd use dtrace Nov 07 22:12:21 In my case, by the goddamn N900 whenever I need to copy over something critical. Nov 07 22:12:23 to get a log Nov 07 22:12:27 i would use windows Nov 07 22:12:37 jacekowski: go jump out a window. Nov 07 22:12:39 * GeneralAntilles reboots. Nov 07 22:12:44 heh Nov 07 22:12:47 timeless_xchat, dtrace on linux? Nov 07 22:13:10 does finder.app run on linux? Nov 07 22:13:20 linux has SystemTap Nov 07 22:13:29 * timeless_xchat kicks jacekowski Nov 07 22:14:08 :) Nov 07 22:14:58 oh, it's 0degC outside Nov 07 22:17:00 timeless_xchat: snowing? Nov 07 22:25:33 nah Nov 07 22:25:37 ax Nov 07 22:25:49 hammertime Nov 07 22:26:01 actually, it seems to have gone up +2deg so far Nov 07 22:26:38 sp3000 : did you watch the chilean miner run the nyc marathon? Nov 07 22:26:49 timeless_xchat: well stable as in not crashing epically Nov 07 22:26:54 I did not Nov 07 22:27:08 i just need a qwebkit and a qlistbox Nov 07 22:30:06 "just qwebkit" Nov 07 22:30:14 * timeless_xchat just needs a pony Nov 07 22:34:10 a listbox should work... Nov 07 22:34:12 but expecting a web browser not to crash... Nov 07 22:34:21 ... is asking for more than a pony Nov 07 22:34:35 @central railway station Nov 07 22:37:12 Crazy, so when you charge the N900 it goes to max clock speed? Nov 07 22:38:01 no Nov 07 22:38:06 only when you connect usb Nov 07 22:38:09 for couple seconds Nov 07 22:38:17 on 1.3 also with charger Nov 07 22:38:31 Yes, I'm talking about 1.3 Nov 07 22:38:36 (as DocScrutinizer found using powertop) Nov 07 22:39:02 mine is currently reporting max freq on usb connected to laptop and fully charged (green led lit) Nov 07 22:39:18 Unless: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_cur_freq Nov 07 22:39:20 isn't live? Nov 07 22:39:25 it is Nov 07 22:39:35 put a sleep 5 before cat.ing it Nov 07 22:40:03 Same Nov 07 22:40:11 Still reporting 500mhz Nov 07 22:40:16 it does. We discussed this in epic length here some days ago. Bug in PR1.3 Nov 07 22:40:26 DocScrutinizer: okay, just checking. Nov 07 22:40:29 kernel, I might add Nov 07 22:40:38 So, does this effect power kernel users? Nov 07 22:40:46 nope Nov 07 22:40:49 (I'm using hostmode2 kernel) Nov 07 22:40:57 no, as power kernel not yet has PR1.3 Nov 07 22:41:01 kernel-power is still ok Nov 07 22:41:03 Oh, okay. Nov 07 22:41:15 * alterego wonders what's messing with the scaling thing .. Nov 07 22:42:20 Okay, I think I get it :) Nov 07 22:43:21 up til & incl PR1.2 this was a intentional behaviour to service USB when hooked up to a host (wild guessing), in PR1.3 it sneaked over to charging state as well Nov 07 22:43:21 powertop seems broken with kernel-power tho Nov 07 22:43:37 it is Nov 07 22:43:49 ok thx for confirming :) Nov 07 22:53:47 PaulFertser: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=668661&postcount=936 (500MHz lock) Nov 07 23:05:18 Hi, someone have try http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/maemo5-textedit-texteditautoresizer-h.html ? Nov 07 23:05:33 does the ensureVisible part is working for you ? Nov 07 23:07:15 Cripes, my head is spinning, didn't realise how big this project had become. Nov 07 23:07:54 * alterego contemplates seperating some stuff into plugins or libs Nov 07 23:09:48 somtimes my n900 makes a short beep noise when I reboot it, using reboot from power menu Nov 07 23:09:55 what is that? Nov 07 23:10:08 It's normal, don't worry about it. Nov 07 23:10:20 I think it's supposed to happen everytime, but doesn't. Nov 07 23:10:44 I notice when it does do it, proximity sensor does not work from shortcutd Nov 07 23:10:53 when it doesn't, proximity sensor works Nov 07 23:11:22 I don't use shortcutd Nov 07 23:12:06 also, there are times when the Nokia handshake animation doesn't play during reboot Nov 07 23:12:11 is that normal Nov 07 23:12:33 Well, I rarely use reboot. Nov 07 23:12:54 I think the startup animation has always worked for me, but again, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Nov 07 23:13:18 alright, just wondering cause I'm using a fresh 1.3 + emmc reflash Nov 07 23:18:38 DocScrutinizer: either way, that does not explain why not deeper than C1 states. Nov 07 23:18:53 DocScrutinizer: And I put my finger that 500Mhz vs 250Mhz does not make a dime in power usage, C1 vs C4 will. Nov 07 23:19:09 well, C4 is 0MHz :) Nov 07 23:19:10 yup Nov 07 23:19:28 clocks off, voltage off Nov 07 23:20:01 probably musb craps itself with clocks off :) Nov 07 23:20:16 possibly Nov 07 23:20:36 doesn't explain why we need it for charging :-P Nov 07 23:20:45 C4 is an explosive Nov 07 23:20:47 charging from dumb charger Nov 07 23:21:06 Probably a mistake in their "something is connected to my usb port" bit. Nov 07 23:21:12 yes Nov 07 23:21:19 DocScrutinizer: I here think I prefer Matan's approach. The PR1.3 change is loosely explained, and I am yet to experience whatever it tried to fix. Nov 07 23:21:24 Or maybe they sneakily put it in to push hen forward ;) Nov 07 23:21:28 see pr1.3 changelog Nov 07 23:21:59 Anyhow, bed time for me. Nov 07 23:22:04 Hello! Does anyone knows how to use your computer as a bluetooth headset? Nov 07 23:22:06 cya alterego Nov 07 23:22:07 See you all later folks. Nov 07 23:22:14 javispedro: sorry, didn't get it Nov 07 23:22:34 DocScrutinizer: Matan suggested somewhere in tmo that future power kernel versions will have that exact PR1.3 change reverted Nov 07 23:22:56 :nod: seems reasonable enough Nov 07 23:22:58 javispedro, thats great news Nov 07 23:23:14 (and where is the 1.3 changelog?) Nov 07 23:23:35 grab kernel package for original, or search irc logs Nov 07 23:23:52 either way, as I said, not much reasoning there. Nov 07 23:23:58 hm ok Nov 07 23:24:40 so, if someone is capable of charging their N900 from a dumb charger now and pre-PR1.3 couldn't, I'd like to know. Nov 07 23:24:49 ah you mean this https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=h-e-n;a=commitdiff;h=a2abd51199b9e61542a24ae9086ac1c6263106c4#patch9 Nov 07 23:24:52 right? Nov 07 23:24:57 yep Nov 07 23:25:11 ok Nov 07 23:25:30 ~bug 161191 Nov 07 23:25:31 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/161191 was not found. Nov 07 23:25:39 nox-: NB is the internal nokia bugzilla Nov 07 23:25:44 oh ok Nov 07 23:25:53 nox-: your only hope for any disclosement of such information is file a bmo and cross fingers Nov 07 23:26:03 :( Nov 07 23:29:40 nox-: ack for 161191 Nov 07 23:29:50 thx Nov 07 23:30:06 do you know more details? Nov 07 23:32:17 hell, how I hate that ambiguity in bug descriptions! Is "Rover does not differentiate charging downstream port from dedicated charger" what they implemented now (which would sound like a correct statement), or is it a descriptions of a bug (that's what the wording sounds like) which the tried to fix but actually messed it up completely? Nov 07 23:32:52 DocScrutinizer: probably, that's the bug title. Nov 07 23:35:28 now if I were smart enough to spot the diff for that nb#161191 :-S Nov 07 23:36:02 chances are, it's just the musb changes Nov 07 23:39:13 you know what *usually* happens to devels dumping patchsets of >4 unrelated diffs to the public? Nov 07 23:39:36 oh Nov 07 23:39:53 discussed already the changes to the swap algorithm in pr1.3' Nov 07 23:39:54 ? Nov 07 23:40:09 nope, not afaik Nov 07 23:40:23 I guess that's ShadowJK's domain Nov 07 23:40:51 btw fennec really seems to be swap-happy... Nov 07 23:41:05 fennec eats ram like candy Nov 07 23:41:11 still no official compcache for the n900 .. :/ Nov 07 23:41:27 wmarone, :) Nov 07 23:41:57 mmmmyummy, candy Nov 07 23:42:17 DocScrutinizer: gaps_rbtree_insert, gaps_rbtree_add new symbols nowhere to be seen in upstream, seems to be part of a new scheme to allocate pages Nov 07 23:44:19 possibly NB#166185 - swapping algorithm improvements & re-calibration Nov 07 23:44:28 somebody should test the uptime with pr1.3 kernel Nov 07 23:45:15 somebody who actually suffers from that swap fragmentation Nov 07 23:45:37 I got uptimes of >30 days with pr1.2 and no real problems Nov 07 23:46:01 but then I usually have no swp-happy apps running Nov 07 23:47:50 which would also explain why Nokia didn't realize there's a problem. Probably their testers' usage patterns were more like mine, and both are quite different to John User's Nov 07 23:48:23 they tend to shutdown stuff from time to time. Nov 07 23:48:30 that too Nov 07 23:48:45 Mine can be "open 30 browser windows, get distracted, open gpodder and watch some videos, pause video, switch to one of those browser windows, read it, close it, go back to video" Nov 07 23:48:58 hi ShadowJK :-) Nov 07 23:49:09 talking about the devil =) Nov 07 23:49:15 ;) Nov 07 23:50:09 So I'm guessing they find/keeptrack largest gap of free pages in the swap area Nov 07 23:50:11 and fill that Nov 07 23:53:11 I wanted to rename stations in fmtuner. Nov 07 23:53:36 Seems it just doesn't allow to do that from the gui; so I figured, let's check whether I can modify the file where it stores those. Nov 07 23:53:51 no file Nov 07 23:53:53 gconf. Nov 07 23:53:54 Thing is, I just can't find any file that could contain them; grepping doesn't help. Nov 07 23:54:01 hm Nov 07 23:54:09 chrissbx: you should grep ~/.gconf* Nov 07 23:54:19 There's no .gconf Nov 07 23:54:24 gconftool -R /|grep foo Nov 07 23:54:33 only problem, you don't see which key you're in Nov 07 23:54:44 gconftool -R / | less +/foo Nov 07 23:56:42 /var/lib/gconf :P Nov 07 23:56:44 Thanks mgedmin, that works Nov 07 23:56:49 aha Nov 07 23:57:18 but if you edit the file you might need to kill gconfd- Nov 07 23:57:18 2 Nov 07 23:57:42 yeah, I'll update using gconftool then. Nov 07 23:58:19 (I wonder why they choose such a location?) Nov 07 23:59:42 editing that with gconftool is a pita because there are two independent list iirc Nov 08 00:00:19 chrissbx, cause that's the system provided defaults? (in /var/lib/gconf) Nov 08 00:00:41 johnx: no, it stored my changes there. Nov 08 00:00:45 So it's not just defaults. Nov 08 00:00:49 huh Nov 08 00:00:57 johnx: read /etc/gconf/2/path lately ? ;) Nov 08 00:01:40 javispedro, I made an ASSumption that they'd do the same thing as debuntu Nov 08 00:01:44 my mistake :) Nov 08 00:01:52 and mine Nov 08 00:02:35 Must either have been someone who thought having just one location to backup for "system" data would be nice (let the user care about files he knows about only); or maybe an intern that just enabled writing that location for users. Nov 08 00:04:47 my thoughts: concerns about read/write speeds of the emmc that /home is on, and/or concerns about writing to it too many times Nov 08 00:04:58 and/or the famous "historical reasons" Nov 08 00:05:03 I think it's the latter. Nov 08 00:05:10 historical reasons about what the intern did. Nov 08 00:05:20 sounds about right Nov 08 00:06:00 whenever you see "osso-" the "historical reasons" explanation is almost always the right choice Nov 08 00:06:48 well, before they were historical reasons there must have been some original reasons, I suppose Nov 08 00:07:29 right, but the reasoning might have been for a totally different device Nov 08 00:07:38 possibly as far back as the 770 Nov 08 00:08:00 /var/lib/gconf, /var/lib/install ... Nov 08 00:08:45 I'm thinking either backups or possibly some thought about being able to "restore to defaults" easily Nov 08 00:09:35 also, though the Maemo/MeeGo team is *now* very adept at Linux, I'm not sure that every member of the original Maemo team actually came from a Linux background Nov 08 00:13:05 Yeah, I guess they wanted to avoid the user restoring home and breaking app configs with that. Nov 08 00:13:52 Or then maybe that was not the original historic reason, but at least it looks like a better reason. Nov 08 00:20:18 What are people mainly writing guis with for Maemo or MeeGo? Nov 08 00:20:35 Like a tool for editing station keys, or a new gui for the fm tuner. Nov 08 00:21:05 Python,Lua,C,Perl, Gtk I guess Hildon,.. Nov 08 00:21:21 Qt is the way to go for Meego compatibility Nov 08 00:21:41 (also, it seemed easier than gtk+ in my very limited experience) Nov 08 00:21:42 Ah hm true hm. But isn't Hildon still used with Qt or something? Nov 08 00:21:49 Like a common layer atop gtk/Qt? Nov 08 00:22:06 no, AFAIK Nov 08 00:22:24 there been a changelog posted for 3.1 yet Nov 08 00:22:26 1.3, too Nov 08 00:23:11 there's instructions for doing the right thing in Qt to make the GUI fit in with Maemo/MeeGO Nov 08 00:23:16 haven't looked yet Nov 08 00:29:55 I wonder if there's a Qt gui server, like for gtk. (Both to protect from the Qt license directing the license of your app, and to give memory separation (easier for some language frameworks)) Nov 08 00:31:06 there's a GUI server for gtk? Nov 08 00:31:27 (though gtk+ is LGPL ...) Nov 08 00:31:39 gtk-server.org is it I think Nov 08 00:31:51 also, qt is not LGPL I think Nov 08 00:32:09 qt is lgpl Nov 08 00:32:23 augh. that should have read "now" Nov 08 00:32:33 <- distracted typing Nov 08 00:32:37 Hm ok so the license may not be a problem; but it may still be a good idea, actually the main plus point: never have to recompile anything. Nov 08 00:33:20 eh? Nov 08 00:33:29 I'm ... not sure how that would work Nov 08 00:33:49 also, qt and gtk are both shared libraries. They take advantage of shared memory, so they're only loaded once Nov 08 00:34:13 Depends on how the toolkit works, I've never programmed anything real with either gtk+ nor qt; Nov 08 00:34:38 but for example wxwindows pretty much assumes you compile, it has many macros that need expansion; Nov 08 00:35:15 so if you write your app in a scripting language, you want it to be backed by something that takes away the need for recompilation. Nov 08 00:35:47 isn't that the interpreter? Nov 08 00:35:52 I think I'm lost ... Nov 08 00:36:07 I'm more sysadmin than programmer. use small words :) Nov 08 00:36:50 With wx, you write a .c file which contains something like WX_START_OF_APP and WX_MAINLOOP etc. (I forgot the real names, long time ago); Nov 08 00:37:09 gconftool -R -> /apps/osso/image-viewer: recent_types = [2.4475800000000002e-307,1.2552999999999999e-307,6.9660200000000004e-308,7.8062300000000002e-308] X-P Nov 08 00:37:30 O_o Nov 08 00:37:34 those would expand to C code that does the right thing for setting up stuff, open the first window, create the main event loop etc. Nov 08 00:37:36 2.4475800000000002e-307 is by far my favorite image type Nov 08 00:37:50 wonder if I could find my recent_types with an electron microscope Nov 08 00:38:20 chrissbx, but that's for making your program toolkit agnostic Nov 08 00:38:52 if you use Qt, I don't think that's really a problem ... Nov 08 00:39:12 yes; my point is, if you want to use a scripting language, someone has to figure out how to enable changing how windows are setup etc without needing to compile C code Nov 08 00:39:30 actually I guess that's solved for most scripting languages. Nov 08 00:40:08 Well, my train of thought was: if I want to use Scheme to write my app, I'll have to deal with the C interface, which I'd like to avoid, Nov 08 00:40:25 ah. no qt bindings for scheme? sad Nov 08 00:40:57 because then I'll probably have to recompile the parts handling the ffi all the time, because blocking calls in C code usually blocks the vm of the language and hence user-space threading, Nov 08 00:41:18 and if I want to move on to say android then my work with that wouldn't be worth a dime. Nov 08 00:41:38 So better abstract it away and then why not go cross process to something like gtk-server. Nov 08 00:41:54 No blocking issues, clear separation. Nov 08 00:42:54 We've got loads of scripting languages that can work with maemo Nov 08 00:42:58 johnx: interested in a bet? they to ""if (r == 1)... "" an are surprised why r = 1 doest yield true for ( r == 1 ) Nov 08 00:43:05 You should check out qml :) Nov 08 00:43:06 they Do* Nov 08 00:43:47 DocScrutinizer, agh. what language am I looking at? Nov 08 00:44:16 dunno, whatever is dealing with /apps/osso/image-viewer: recent_types Nov 08 00:44:27 so probably C Nov 08 00:44:50 lesson: never use real if you don't know why Nov 08 00:45:52 I guess I would have made that mistake too, since I have no idea what you're talking about. OTOH, I haven't done C seriously in ~10 years Nov 08 00:45:55 2.4475800000000002e-307 != 0 Nov 08 00:46:47 so I *guess* they meant to set /apps/osso/image-viewer: recent_types = [0,0,0] Nov 08 00:47:23 but some gashead used reals for the recent_types vars Nov 08 00:49:16 aaaah, right. FP math. fun times Nov 08 00:50:00 I forgot the part where those were referred to as "real types" and instead all I could think of was the math definition of "real" Nov 08 00:50:30 I was like, "Real? Instead of using imaginary types in C? HowTF does that work?" Nov 08 00:57:21 "God is real, unless declared integer" Nov 08 00:57:23 :-) Nov 08 00:57:48 I'd declare it boolean, bit ooops, no C Nov 08 00:58:11 toresbe: ah, a fellow FORTRAN nerd? Nov 08 00:58:15 him? Thy? Nov 08 00:58:27 BCMM: Nah! Forth love if honk then! Nov 08 00:58:36 haha Nov 08 00:58:40 HAHAHAHA Nov 08 00:59:17 HONK Nov 08 00:59:42 Actually I mostly code C. But an interest in computing history has at least caused me to know about some of those languages. Nov 08 01:00:12 fortran isn't history Nov 08 01:00:29 anyway, i seem to recall the existance of a modified hildon desktop with keyboard shorcuts and so on, but can't remember how to find it Nov 08 01:00:43 I guess Nokia no longer provides a "Desktop" version of the SDK image? Nov 08 01:00:59 also, anyone know if the keyboarding works right with catorise? Nov 08 01:01:51 I coded those: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4734779.html in a forth like language, in the early 80s Nov 08 01:01:55 BCMM: well, fortran being a dominant language (fortunately) is ;) Nov 08 01:02:25 actually mid-eighties Nov 08 01:02:43 toresbe: try telling that to a physicist :-) Nov 08 01:02:45 BCMM, how do you mean? Nov 08 01:03:05 psycho_oreos: wrt what? Nov 08 01:03:35 also, anyone know if the keyboarding works right with catorise? <-- how do you mean by that? Nov 08 01:03:39 * toresbe really needs to brush up on his CDC Cyber skills Nov 08 01:04:39 toresbe, center for disease control? Nov 08 01:04:53 Control Data Corporation Nov 08 01:05:58 I forgot my tag :) Nov 08 01:06:04 http://static.cray-cyber.org/General/LARGE/Cy830.jpg Nov 08 01:06:10 psycho_oreos: iirc, there is a modified hildon-desktop floating around which features, amongst other things, kb shorcuts for using the app launcher Nov 08 01:06:28 psycho_oreos: i was wondering if sais Nov 08 01:06:31 said Nov 08 01:06:42 shortcuts work with catorise Nov 08 01:07:47 BCMM, I'm using matan's modified hildon (enables 9 desktops) and the shortcut buttons for catorise I tried for the first time after you mentioned it seems to work with matan's modified hildon Nov 08 01:08:46 psycho_oreos: thanks, where does one find it? Nov 08 01:10:28 BCMM, the shortcuts for catorise? I used trial-and-error.. it seems like the first few alphabetical keys (i.e, q, w, e, r, t, y) corresponds to the first row of icons under catorise Nov 08 01:10:49 and to go back using keyboard with catorise is backspace Nov 08 01:11:27 Catorize shouldn't have anything to do with the shortcuts Nov 08 01:12:04 I thought he meant keyboard shortcuts Nov 08 01:15:04 atorize is just an editor for desktop files, which get handled by applauncher anyway. There's been a menu in applauncher prior to PR1.2 ("More"). So you'd think MHD works with catorize as well, yes Nov 08 01:16:42 ah, #maem Nov 08 01:16:56 if I try to read from xchat's red line I would get crazy Nov 08 01:17:07 a nice prospective from gtk-server.org, to floating point, to categorize... Nov 08 01:17:43 we're already crazy. you might as well join us :) Nov 08 01:18:00 hey, I'm crazy already too. Nov 08 01:21:21 xchat's red tab labels? *.* Nov 08 01:21:49 xchat's last-time-I-focused-the-window-I-was-here line. Nov 08 01:21:55 aah Nov 08 01:22:09 * ieatlint loves that line Nov 08 01:22:22 the red tab labels give me eye cancer Nov 08 01:22:39 even my TV refuses to display them Nov 08 01:22:53 what are you doing to your poor tv Nov 08 01:23:25 help: automatically spawns rm -rf / Nov 08 01:24:35 Reminds me of an old email I once got; forgot about the context but I remember some words from it... Nov 08 01:24:45 "There is no help. There is NO help." Nov 08 01:25:03 sounds like open source Nov 08 01:25:10 some of it gets lost in translation, he was writing that like if it was the end of the world :) Nov 08 01:25:26 javispedro: http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10054 Nov 08 01:25:47 Let there be blood! Nov 08 01:25:49 dear god... try changing the colour to something else then Nov 08 01:26:00 Extra hour to use today and I'm still going to be up 'til 2. Nov 08 01:26:10 DocScrutinizer: composite output at its best :) Nov 08 01:26:37 mornin' GeneralAntilles Nov 08 01:28:01 GeneralAntilles: duh, southern hemisphere? Nov 08 01:29:45 GeneralAntilles: ...or what's that with the extra hour? Nov 08 01:30:16 aah no. I *always* get confused with that stuff Nov 08 01:30:35 Stupid DST Nov 08 01:30:43 actually now's northern hemisphere extra hour season Nov 08 01:30:43 ~lart the inventor of daylight "savings" time Nov 08 01:30:44 * infobot makes a balloon animal out of the inventor of daylight "savings" time Nov 08 01:30:58 ps: not foundation fault Nov 08 01:31:07 / # /bin/sh: r Nov 08 01:31:16 sshd getting crazy Nov 08 01:32:14 Hi! What is the dbus command for opening files with their default handlers? Nov 08 01:32:31 errrhmhmhm Nov 08 01:33:35 I wish we had xdg-open ... Nov 08 01:34:07 * javispedro notes that writing hildon-mime-open app would be in the trivial realm Nov 08 01:35:15 * johnx can't be arsed to put much time into maemo when meego development is in full swing Nov 08 01:35:27 ebzzry: you *might* try http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS#dbus-send-google and replace the ""URL"" with a real resouce locator string. Might work, aiui for some filetypes it does Nov 08 01:36:04 DocScrutinizer: Let me check that. Nov 08 01:36:55 is forwarding X over ssh the only way to get the n900 X session onto a remote box - or is there some other app that will do it easier? Nov 08 01:37:29 jpinx-eeepc, like a vnc server? Nov 08 01:37:34 wasn't there this.... errr Nov 08 01:37:37 vnc? Nov 08 01:38:02 Applications that doesn't respect the usability paradigms of their host OS should be burned. Nov 08 01:38:03 is vnc easier? Nov 08 01:38:03 x11vnc specifically Nov 08 01:38:14 pretty easy yeah Nov 08 01:38:20 (or it should be) Nov 08 01:38:47 I have been struggling trying to get X over ssh, but it's not playing nicely for me :( Nov 08 01:39:31 yeah. I know that at least some maemo apps did (still do?) some stupid things that prevent them from being forwarded Nov 08 01:39:50 yea : Nov 08 01:39:58 * jpinx-eeepc looks into vnc Nov 08 01:40:04 so yeah. x11vnc basically lets you see the whole desktop remotely, but it should be slower than actual X11 forwarding Nov 08 01:40:11 it's a tradeoff *shrugs* Nov 08 01:40:21 slow is not an issue Nov 08 01:41:05 * jpinx-eeepc waits while HAL updates and allws me to do something,.. Nov 08 01:43:40 DocScrutinizer: osso_browser? Does Maemo use the browser to handle everything, like in the file manager? Nov 08 01:44:27 ebzzry: I'm wild guessing and have no real clue Nov 08 01:48:40 gconftool-2 --set "/system/osso/dsm/locks/devicelock_autolock_timeout" --type int 150 Nov 08 01:49:04 if tried killing gconf first, setting the xml file readonly, after each reboot it always returns back to 60 Nov 08 01:49:22 what do I do, this is new to 1.3, before I could just edit the xml and be done Nov 08 01:49:45 Is this channel logged? If yes, where? Nov 08 01:49:55 look at topic ebzzry Nov 08 01:49:56 listed in the topic Nov 08 01:50:53 Argh! Sorry. My bad. Nov 08 01:52:18 no worries :) Nov 08 01:53:24 johnx: vnc works - thanks - a bit clunky, but easy indeed :) Nov 08 01:53:38 glad to hear it Nov 08 01:53:42 yeah. clunky is the word Nov 08 01:54:03 so, what's the goal of all this? or just for fun? Nov 08 01:54:25 bigger keyboard and screen for a start ;) Nov 08 01:54:50 also, semi-related. has anyone managed to make the N900 show the mouse cursor? Nov 08 01:55:27 Hmm -- tightvncviewwer doesn't appear to support cop-n-paste - which is a pity.. Nov 08 01:56:46 johnx: I think I heard of that, yes Nov 08 01:56:56 cool - I can dial calls over vnc - and put the speaker phone on ;) Nov 08 01:57:13 x2vnc might be a lot of fun then Nov 08 01:57:30 synergy would be best, but would require repackaging Nov 08 01:59:42 johnx: on breaking and reconnecting I get this-- root@Nokia-N900:~# channel 3: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused Nov 08 02:00:06 Ah, nothin'll get your blood pressure up like IT. Nov 08 02:00:10 IIRC, there's a switch to add to x11vnc to make it persist Nov 08 02:00:46 GeneralAntilles, then maybe IT isn't for you :) or you need to work on maintaining your Xen Nov 08 02:00:53 or your boss constantly breaks things Nov 08 02:02:57 The more I use technology, the more I hate it. Nov 08 02:04:12 yeah, if I was your career advisor, I'd say "Maybe you should consider other fields besides IT" Nov 08 02:05:02 I mean, if you end up stressed over dealing with it, don't do it unless you need to Nov 08 02:13:26 johnx, not in it, thank goodness. Nov 08 02:13:29 Just dealing with it at the moment. Nov 08 02:14:23 well, I'm bored, so ping me if you want to bounce ideas off me Nov 08 02:25:20 Gah, the author of kernel-power hasn't been on IRC for quite some time. Nov 08 02:27:55 good morning Nov 08 02:28:07 mornin' Termana Nov 08 02:33:33 I hope kernel-power will soon be updated with hostmode. Nov 08 02:34:15 you know.. i just thought about it.. and realistically other than a new ui maemo is done lol Nov 08 02:34:30 doesn't maemo just use xorg? Nov 08 02:34:55 yes Nov 08 02:34:59 i am curious as to why someone cant just make a new ui with the umderlying base Nov 08 02:35:06 under Nov 08 02:35:19 the base is great Nov 08 02:35:34 errr...kinda Nov 08 02:35:36 a ui upgrade is all it would really need Nov 08 02:35:53 better than most port linux distros Nov 08 02:36:23 that's not saying much Nov 08 02:36:26 But I like the UI Nov 08 02:36:29 the kernel support is good Nov 08 02:36:39 the UI change is the biggest thing that scares me about harmattan/meego Nov 08 02:36:39 the actual 'distro' stuff is kinda ... iffy Nov 08 02:36:49 that and the new restrictions Nov 08 02:37:13 ~seen t-tan Nov 08 02:37:21 t-tan <~tanner@e179094244.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 149d 6h 50m 50s ago, saying: 'smoking hot device?'. Nov 08 02:37:25 ~seen titan Nov 08 02:37:26 titan <~zero@pdpc/supporter/student/titan> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 212d 16h 45m 12s ago, saying: 'extra ips on the default interface'. Nov 08 02:37:35 ShadowJK: well. i still wouldnt mind a profile "desktop" ;) Nov 08 02:37:59 or a liq based rotating gles one Nov 08 02:38:10 DocScrutinizer: =( Nov 08 02:38:11 would be awesome to have a 3D based wm Nov 08 02:38:20 Macer, could just port MeeGo Handset UI, I suppose Nov 08 02:38:30 if that's your "thing" Nov 08 02:38:37 Termana: that is what i was wondering Nov 08 02:38:47 why cant someone just backport the meego ui? Nov 08 02:38:52 then all the hw would work Nov 08 02:39:01 and you get the new phone based ui Nov 08 02:39:08 as well as all the maemo apps Nov 08 02:39:18 ShadowJK: full ack Nov 08 02:39:26 MeeGo UI on top of debian perhaps? ;) Nov 08 02:39:37 not really debian Nov 08 02:39:47 maemo is fine as a base Nov 08 02:39:48 it's a subset Nov 08 02:39:57 Macer, I think you've got it backwards Nov 08 02:39:57 works great on the n900 Nov 08 02:40:05 how so? Nov 08 02:40:08 Maemo base is pretty crap Nov 08 02:40:16 Maemo UI is quite superb Nov 08 02:40:22 Macer, you only think maemo is fine as a base because you haven't been chin deep in it ... Nov 08 02:40:29 ShadowJK++ Nov 08 02:40:35 johnx: i suppose ;) Nov 08 02:40:44 I wouldn't mind hildon-desktop being ported and packaged for Debian Nov 08 02:40:49 What MeeGo is doing is making the base OK, and allegedly dumbing down the UI Nov 08 02:40:51 Termana, been there. tried that Nov 08 02:41:01 johnx, ugly? Nov 08 02:41:08 ShadowJK: but all the n900 he doesnt work yet Nov 08 02:41:09 Termana, it was called Mer Nov 08 02:41:10 Not the look itself obviously Nov 08 02:41:10 :( Nov 08 02:41:19 btw, i doubt you guys would be interested in this, but it looks like some people who were hoping to hack flash player from webos will be running into quite a wall based on the observations i've made: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=866454&postcount=4 Nov 08 02:41:20 johnx, ah right ;) Nov 08 02:41:52 Macer, are you refering to meego hacker's edition? Nov 08 02:42:12 b-man`, why not just get the flash player plugin from TI? (If they are still allowing people to grab it) Nov 08 02:42:39 They aren't Nov 08 02:42:42 ShadowJK: yes Nov 08 02:42:49 Termana: they kinda stoped distributing it after what has happened lately :P Nov 08 02:42:51 n900 is not directly supported Nov 08 02:42:53 too bad Nov 08 02:43:00 They closed it pretty much same day they realized end-users were grabbing it Nov 08 02:43:01 how about android's flash, could that be used? Nov 08 02:43:08 i wouldnt mind using it if all the hw worked Nov 08 02:43:16 b-man`, meh. I'm more of a HTML5 person anyway Nov 08 02:43:19 :p Nov 08 02:43:26 nox-: Android's flashplayer is built agenst a non-standard libc Nov 08 02:43:33 :( Nov 08 02:43:38 Termana: meh ;) Nov 08 02:44:13 Macer, so you're saying that because MeeGo isn't finished yet, someone should start a new UI ontop of Maemo. So then you'd have MeeGo UI at progress 75% and Maemo new-UI at progress 0%, except that MeeGo has more people working on it. :-) Nov 08 02:44:14 maemos flash works fine with the fake out reporter Nov 08 02:44:28 best thing apple ever did was kick adobe's flash strategy between the legs Nov 08 02:44:31 ShadowJK: well. not really Nov 08 02:44:39 johnx, true Nov 08 02:44:54 i just don't think meego will ever work 100% Nov 08 02:45:07 with the hw Nov 08 02:45:13 ... and the best thing adobe ever did was point out the apple walled garden situation with lots of advertising $$$ Nov 08 02:45:13 i know maemo does ;) Nov 08 02:45:19 win-win for open source all around :D Nov 08 02:45:40 Macer, it will, most likely, eventually. Nov 08 02:45:56 sometimes it bugs me that 80% of the web relies on a closed binary that is controlled by one entity :P Nov 08 02:45:57 It would be cool to port the Maemo4 UI back to Maemo5, but it's probably alot of effort to resurrect all the killed code :-) Nov 08 02:46:14 Macer, comparing meego to the past maemo backport / HE efforts is apples and oranges. the amount of resources the meego-on-n900 team is at a different level than in the past Nov 08 02:46:21 b-man`, not only that, its full of secuirity problems too... :( Nov 08 02:46:27 -i Nov 08 02:46:35 johnx: more or less? Nov 08 02:46:42 Macer, tons more :) Nov 08 02:46:53 ShadowJK, Debian is packaging it, so I suppose not ;) Nov 08 02:46:55 and a mandate to meet as well, not just a "do your best" Nov 08 02:47:04 johnx, it's pretty confusing afaict. There's like MeeGo, MeeGo-harmattan, and MeeGo HE for N900, which is MeeGo-harmattan port to n900... Nov 08 02:47:34 ShadowJK: so utter dev confusion again? :) Nov 08 02:47:37 ShadowJK, it really isn't THAT confusing. Nov 08 02:47:38 and the MeeGo-proper and MeeGo-harmattan variants don't have ABI compatibility :D Nov 08 02:47:43 but the mainline meego-for-n900 is the one to care about. it's a step ahead of the curve rather than behind it Nov 08 02:47:49 right Nov 08 02:48:06 being behind the curve has been one of the big problems in the past Nov 08 02:48:13 Macer, it's Nokia not adopting full MeeGo yet Nov 08 02:48:15 ShadowJK, actually your statement about ABI compatibility isn't true Nov 08 02:48:27 same reason why linux-for-$(some-winmo-device) always ends up half assed and forgotten before it's finished Nov 08 02:48:29 ShadowJK: sounds like the same cycle ;) Nov 08 02:48:29 ShadowJK, as long as 1.2 gets hardfp, it will be ABI compatible Nov 08 02:48:35 Oh? I thought one was hardfp abi and the other was softfp abi.. Nov 08 02:48:38 righ Nov 08 02:48:39 t Nov 08 02:50:13 maybe nokia will just release all the hw code and open it next month and let everytging take off Nov 08 02:50:19 :) Nov 08 02:50:26 living the dream Nov 08 02:50:37 I'm not sure they have much to open Nov 08 02:50:46 meh, for now I can't see meego getting so incredibly much saner or better or whatnot than maemo Nov 08 02:51:07 DocScrutinizer, luckily we don't have to take it on faith Nov 08 02:52:09 in the mobile world however, it does seem to be the best option for people who actually care about having a phone running a (mostly) open unix-like OS Nov 08 02:52:47 I guess there's really just one Nokia component in N900, the modem, the kernel phonet drivers are open source, and oFono is (I think?) open source.. Nov 08 02:52:59 Macer, the only bits that are closed is 5 userspace parts, SGX blobs, wifi firmware, bluetooth firmware, pulseaudio speaker protection (open work around being worked on) and the modem firmware Nov 08 02:53:09 (modem firmware isn't userspace though) Nov 08 02:53:09 the promised support from Nokia (at least for N900) doesn'z happen fo rmeego as it never happened for maemo Nov 08 02:53:38 DocScrutinizer, what do you mean by support? Nov 08 02:53:43 ShadowJK, ofono is open source Nov 08 02:54:05 ISI, bme, wait till I recall more Nov 08 02:54:13 lystii Nov 08 02:54:27 ah right, BME was the one I forgot Nov 08 02:54:30 but anyway Nov 08 02:54:43 wifi Nov 08 02:54:47 DocScrutinizer, uhm. those *are* supported in meego for N900 Nov 08 02:55:01 termana got some more :-P Nov 08 02:55:28 DocScrutinizer, so what's not supported in MeeGo for N900 that isn't on the TODO list? Nov 08 02:56:01 HTF should I know about any friggin todo list?? Nov 08 02:56:26 so you're complaining that meego for N900 isn't finished yet? or what? Nov 08 02:56:34 There isn't an actual to-do list, johnx was merely insinuating a hypothetical to-do list Nov 08 02:57:00 fact is meego is using a fuckedup lis302 gmeter driver, a crippled lP5523 driver, NO bq24150 driver... Nov 08 02:57:19 and no bq27200 driver? :P Nov 08 02:57:25 yes Nov 08 02:57:30 just continuing the binary blob practice Nov 08 02:57:51 for things that already exist as drivers in mainline linux kernel ;p Nov 08 02:59:21 moo Nov 08 02:59:25 DocScrutinizer: boop Nov 08 02:59:27 .oO(i guess that happens when you submit multiple unrelated patches in one drop...) Nov 08 02:59:29 morning raster Nov 08 02:59:46 nota bene lis302 driver in maemo is FOSS and magnitudes better than the lis3lv02 driver meego is using "because that's the upstream one" - alas that upstream one seems has been developed for WII Nov 08 02:59:52 DocScrutinizer, not supported != I don't like the implementation **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 08 02:59:57 2010