**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 18 02:59:58 2010
Nov 18 03:46:29 <Dorfmeister> Hi. I just installed Meego on my N900 (to a microSD card) and now want to add NITDroid as well, but even though I find many threads there doesn't seem to be a good tutorial for this. Could anybody help with this? I know it's not a direct topic of this channel, but maybe somebody here could help - I already tried #n900, #meego and the Nokia forum. Thanks in advance.
Nov 18 03:54:52 <Dorfmeister> I started the thread http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?213768-Yet-another-N900-Maemo-Meego-NITDroid-Thread If anybody should later on have an idea, please post it there. Thank you.
Nov 18 03:57:42 <SpeedEvil> Now tends to be an especially dead time hwere.
Nov 18 03:58:04 <SpeedEvil> Ask about 6 hours ago, or in anohter 6
Nov 18 04:03:15 <Dorfmeister> Will do.
Nov 18 04:24:04 <Pillum> hey guys
Nov 18 04:24:19 <Pillum> what do i have to do if i cant use camera after installing powerv42?
Nov 18 04:24:30 <Pillum> it always says "camera is used by another application"
Nov 18 04:25:00 <johnx> have you already tried rebooting (just checking)?
Nov 18 04:25:22 <Pillum> yep
Nov 18 04:25:32 <Pillum> flashlight isnt working either
Nov 18 04:28:25 <Pillum> any idea?
Nov 18 04:29:34 <johnx> not off the top of my head
Nov 18 04:29:47 <johnx> by powerv4 do you mean the power kernel?
Nov 18 04:30:33 <Pillum> yeah
Nov 18 04:30:38 <Pillum> power kernel version 42
Nov 18 04:31:10 <johnx> yeah. I don't have it installed, so I have no idea. sorry
Nov 18 04:35:20 <Pillum> seems like the issue is already known on talk.maemo.org
Nov 18 05:45:58 <jase21> Hi guys, Flash Player 10.0 evaluation can be obtained from Texas Instruments: http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/adobeflash-a8.html
Nov 18 05:46:14 <jase21> Did anyone checked that before?
Nov 18 05:46:49 <jase21> current version: v10.1.r92
Nov 18 06:10:53 <tristan__> has anyone installed netbeans?
Nov 18 06:10:56 <tristan__> in easy-debian
Nov 18 08:39:24 <mece> seen noobmonk3y
Nov 18 08:39:29 <mece> oops
Nov 18 08:39:36 <mece> ~seen noobmonk3ey
Nov 18 08:39:44 <infobot> i haven't seen 'noobmonk3ey', mece
Nov 18 08:40:02 <mece> well what the hell is his name then infobot???
Nov 18 08:40:08 <mece> oh right..
Nov 18 08:40:16 <mece> ~seen noobmonk3y
Nov 18 08:40:16 <infobot> noobmonk3y <~NooBmonk3@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust67.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 12h 35m 47s ago, saying: 'at least i know that part works, so i need to start again i think, and figure out this build process :|'.
Nov 18 08:40:24 <mece> ~botsnack
Nov 18 08:40:25 <infobot> thanks, mece
Nov 18 09:04:54 <crashanddie> ~lart mece the naysayer
Nov 18 09:04:55 * infobot burns mece the naysayer to a crisp with a laser
Nov 18 09:19:54 <tr4sk> Hi
Nov 18 09:26:22 <tr4sk> I have a problem with my N900
Nov 18 09:27:17 <tr4sk> When I type some text in conversation or microB, I got an internal error
Nov 18 09:30:43 <psycho_oreos> heh that information wasn't particularly helpful.. don't you have any detailed information? maybe try running the apps via osso-xterm? and probably checking syslog?
Nov 18 09:53:56 <psycho_oreos> is there an alternative to using scp when one needs to transfer lots and lots of data between n900 and linux host? scp is an overkill and I prefer the alternative method to work with mount/fusermount as I am planning to create a dar image
Nov 18 09:54:23 <phellarv> psycho_oreos: Connect by USB?
Nov 18 09:54:26 <phellarv> And mount
Nov 18 09:54:34 <alterego> netcat?
Nov 18 09:54:42 <phellarv> alterego: Lol.
Nov 18 09:54:52 <psycho_oreos> phellarv, yeah already am using USB and I get around 2.2MB/s through ssh
Nov 18 09:55:18 <alterego> It's quicker when you use storage mode
Nov 18 09:55:30 <phellarv> ^ What he said
Nov 18 09:55:35 <psycho_oreos> though the N900's CPU is pretty much hauling its ass off, obviously ssh requires encryption
Nov 18 09:55:54 <psycho_oreos> nope, usb storage mode only gives one access to /home/user/MyDocs
Nov 18 09:56:05 <alterego> Ever heard of cp?
Nov 18 09:56:12 <alterego> Or mv?
Nov 18 09:56:26 <psycho_oreos> cp from where to where? I'm talking between two hosts over IP networking for instance
Nov 18 09:56:45 <phellarv> psycho_oreos: Why do you  want it over IP?
Nov 18 09:56:46 <psycho_oreos> and again usb storage mode does not give me rootfs access, only /home/user/MyDocs
Nov 18 09:56:56 <phellarv> mkdir /home/user/MyDocs
Nov 18 09:56:58 <psycho_oreos> phellarv, is there an alternative?
Nov 18 09:57:01 <phellarv> mkdir /home/user/MyDocs/rootfs
Nov 18 09:57:11 <psycho_oreos> binding mount?
Nov 18 09:57:14 <alterego> So you want to copy files from the rootfs
Nov 18 09:57:16 <phellarv> cp the rootfs to /home/user/MyDocs/rootfs
Nov 18 09:57:21 <alterego> phellarv: dangerous :P
Nov 18 09:57:28 <psycho_oreos> no that will screw up the perms and what not
Nov 18 09:57:29 <alterego> Heh,
Nov 18 09:57:31 <phellarv> phellarv: Naaah
Nov 18 09:57:34 <alterego> tar it
Nov 18 09:57:37 <alterego> then copy
Nov 18 09:57:41 <phellarv> rsync
Nov 18 09:57:58 <alterego> better still, tar it pipe it through netcat and untar it on the client
Nov 18 09:58:13 <phellarv> alterego: You're a fan of netcat?
Nov 18 09:58:35 <psycho_oreos> rsync will just cp files across rather than allowing one to run it through dar.. then again I suppose an ugly script hack might make the two work together, ugh
Nov 18 09:58:58 <alterego> Quit complaing and use ssh :P
Nov 18 09:59:04 <phellarv> psycho_oreos: What are you trying to achieve?
Nov 18 09:59:43 <psycho_oreos> phellarv, creating a dar archive of rootfs minus the usual directories: /dev, /sys, /home/user/MyDocs, etc
Nov 18 10:00:02 <psycho_oreos> or a complete backup :p
Nov 18 10:00:05 <alterego> You can tell it to not go into mounted dirs
Nov 18 10:00:06 <Lantizia> hey my n900 doesn't boot... backlight turns on - but it just hangs and doesn't show anything - if I enable R&D mode you can see it mention the kernel line but doesn't get any further... but it doesn't reboot... any ideas?
Nov 18 10:00:08 <phellarv> Use tar
Nov 18 10:00:35 <crashanddie> Lantizia, flash
Nov 18 10:00:50 <Lantizia> crashanddie, other than that!
Nov 18 10:01:12 <crashanddie> reflash?
Nov 18 10:01:27 * Lantizia looks at crashanddie 
Nov 18 10:01:27 <psycho_oreos> phellarv, dar seems to be much better than tar :p but meh, thanks for input
Nov 18 10:01:35 <phellarv> Lantizia: Sacrifice a goat, and dance naked in the moonlight?
Nov 18 10:01:39 <psycho_oreos> flash the kernel and hope nothing else is screwed
Nov 18 10:02:00 <Lantizia> phellarv, how good is the success rate on that?
Nov 18 10:02:20 <phellarv> Lantizia: Success rate == Not bloody likely.
Nov 18 10:02:42 <phellarv> Lantizia: But hey - You can brag about performing a voodoo-ritual
Nov 18 10:02:44 <crashanddie> Lantizia, after the moonlight bathing, walk 3 times around an old french car (deflated tyres), while rotating the n900 in counter-clock direction
Nov 18 10:03:23 <Lantizia> I've had this thing 11 months now... bits are starting to annoy me lol
Nov 18 10:03:27 <phellarv> Lantizia: Sorry, but I have to agree with crashanddie there - reflashing seems like a sane solution for you
Nov 18 10:03:44 <Lantizia> I turned on the no lifeguard thing but it didn't help
Nov 18 10:03:47 <alterego> crashanddie: it doesn't work when you walk you need to hop on your left leg and tap your head with your right hand whilst doing the procedure
Nov 18 10:04:01 <crashanddie> alterego, lies
Nov 18 10:04:10 <lardman> anyone fancy a state flow puzzle?
Nov 18 10:04:10 <alterego> na-uh
Nov 18 10:04:14 <crashanddie> alterego, you have to tap your _left_ head with your _right_ hand.
Nov 18 10:04:30 <alterego> bbiab
Nov 18 10:04:30 <crashanddie> lardman, shoot
Nov 18 10:04:32 <phellarv> crashanddie: It really depends on the moonphase.
Nov 18 10:04:48 <lardman> https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/mbarcode-qt/videowidget.cpp?revision=447&root=maemo-barcode&view=markup
Nov 18 10:04:52 <lardman> lines 123-131
Nov 18 10:05:02 <Lantizia> a) the stand makes it wobble and topple, b) usb port on the wrong side, c) stupid need for pc suite (wind0ze only), d) minimal portrait, e) too fat, f) a bugger to turn on
Nov 18 10:05:07 <Lantizia> i'm falling out of love :(
Nov 18 10:05:29 <lardman> crashanddie: will be rather involved to follow the logic I'm afraid
Nov 18 10:05:33 <lardman> probably anyway
Nov 18 10:05:41 <crashanddie> what do you need pc-suite for?
Nov 18 10:05:43 <crashanddie> Never used that.
Nov 18 10:06:03 <Lantizia> crashanddie, when PR1.3 came out it said "HEY LETS UPDATE OVER WLAN!" then "Oh but wait... go use PC Suite"
Nov 18 10:06:04 <phellarv> What is pc-suite?
Nov 18 10:06:14 <psycho_oreos> Lantizia, yup lots of owners wear out their novelty with n900 after 6 months of owning it
Nov 18 10:06:30 <Lantizia> psycho_oreos, I'm surprised I've lasted 11 months then :)
Nov 18 10:06:46 <crashanddie> Lantizia, flasher 3.5 ftw
Nov 18 10:06:54 <Lantizia> crashanddie, already downloading pr1.3
Nov 18 10:06:57 <psycho_oreos> allows one to be able to manage portions of the phone, such as remote phone calling, sending/receiving/writing sms, wireless internet through the phone, etc
Nov 18 10:07:06 <crashanddie> lardman, line 131 bothering you?
Nov 18 10:07:16 <Lantizia> i'm getting global as theres no uk release - should be ok though right?
Nov 18 10:07:36 <psycho_oreos> Lantizia, funny how you mention your love is falling out for n900 in that case :)
Nov 18 10:07:45 <psycho_oreos> there should be uk release afaik
Nov 18 10:07:50 <Lantizia> nope
Nov 18 10:08:13 <lardman> crashanddie: yeah, see the comment at the end of that line
Nov 18 10:08:24 <Lantizia> i never knew what it gave anyone anyway.... technically i've got a vodaphone sim too... but it's not a vodaphone provided handset - so I'm fine with just global or UK
Nov 18 10:08:38 <crashanddie> lardman, because you don't call timerOpenGL->start() in the else branch?
Nov 18 10:09:05 <psycho_oreos> Lantizia, blah my bad, though lots of UK owners claim they did OTA upgrade however
Nov 18 10:09:13 <lardman> I don't really want to continuously paint the "You need to open the shutter" message if I can avoid it
Nov 18 10:09:38 <Lantizia> psycho_oreos, never works for me...always claims it'll do it over wlan then wants you to get to a windows box
Nov 18 10:09:45 <Lantizia> of which there are none
Nov 18 10:10:20 <crashanddie> lardman, what displays that message?
Nov 18 10:10:41 <crashanddie> lardman, thing is, I notice that in the if branch, there's setInterval, and the timerOpenGL->start()
Nov 18 10:10:59 <crashanddie> lardman, however, in the else branch, there is only setInterval, you don't start the timer
Nov 18 10:11:05 <crashanddie> lardman, wouldn't that cause the video to not start?
Nov 18 10:11:06 <lardman> yes, that;s the idea
Nov 18 10:11:19 <lardman> no, the video should be started elsewhere
Nov 18 10:11:26 <lardman> the timer just draws the video once available
Nov 18 10:11:32 <psycho_oreos> Lantizia, heh well I did OTA update... not too happy because I was forced to upgrade and I was and still am using global version. It worked needless to say.. probably one may need to use fapman and/or enable red pill mode or something for one to see the massive amounts of packages it needs to download and install
Nov 18 10:11:38 <crashanddie> lardman, but do you start the timer elsewhere?
Nov 18 10:12:15 <Lantizia> psycho_oreos, recon it's worth me putting pr1.2 uk release on fresh and seeing it if OTA updates then?
Nov 18 10:12:53 <lardman> crashanddie: yes, as I see a black screen (updating)
Nov 18 10:12:58 <lardman> i.e. no video, very odd
Nov 18 10:13:05 <psycho_oreos> Lantizia, good question lol, I don't have UK firmware to begin with so I won't know after the OTA would the release version be either global or remain as UK
Nov 18 10:13:15 <crashanddie> lardman, I don't see any other timerOpenGL->start() in that file
Nov 18 10:13:52 <psycho_oreos> I'd say check the forums, it may I suppose save you some headache if you went straight for PR1.3 should PR1.2 fail to deliver
Nov 18 10:14:04 <lardman> l448
Nov 18 10:15:40 <crashanddie> lardman, and that's a valid call to start()?
Nov 18 10:15:56 <lardman> yep
Nov 18 10:15:57 <crashanddie> lardman, rather than using setInterval() followed by start()?
Nov 18 10:16:03 <lardman> yeah, either is possible
Nov 18 10:16:38 <lardman> the problem's not the timer, that certainly starts as I can see the fps on the screen, it's the fact I don't seem to get video
Nov 18 10:16:53 <lardman> but that single line change should have no effect on the gst pipeline
Nov 18 10:18:14 <chem|st> re
Nov 18 10:18:38 <lardman> hi chem|st
Nov 18 10:19:08 <chem|st> hi lardman, how are you doing?
Nov 18 10:20:33 <crashanddie> lardman, not related, but you should use preprocessing shields for the device-specific code
Nov 18 10:21:02 <lardman> well the whole code is device specific
Nov 18 10:21:13 <crashanddie> if (deviceType==DEVICE_N900){
Nov 18 10:21:18 <lardman> chem|st: not bad, trying to reduce mBarcode power usage
Nov 18 10:21:24 <lardman> yeah, legacy code now
Nov 18 10:21:28 <crashanddie> k
Nov 18 10:21:46 <lardman> OpenGL, so might one day be possible on the N8x0 machines
Nov 18 10:22:21 <chem|st> lardman: a so you are already at performance tweaking, so I guess you aren't far away from a new release?!
Nov 18 10:22:42 <lardman> I've just pushed a new release to extras-devel, should be there now
Nov 18 10:23:05 <lardman> and once I've sorted a few other odds and sods out will go through the trials of -testing and onto Extras :)
Nov 18 10:25:03 <FIQ|n900> Hi. I have coreutils installed. I want it to be priorited in $PATH, so i set the path in my .bashrc file. Hoewer, it seems as it's not the last readed file, so my PATH gets overwritten. If I source my .bashrc, it works fine, so it's not that.
Nov 18 10:25:15 <chem|st> "!$&%$@ why the heck is damn hildon-home such a bitch?
Nov 18 10:25:18 <FIQ|n900> And yes, the file is readed, just not last
Nov 18 10:26:11 <psycho_oreos> what if you create a symlink from .bash_profile to .bashrc?
Nov 18 10:26:32 <chem|st> FIQ|n900: path has nothing to be in .bashrc afair it's to be in profiles
Nov 18 10:27:37 * chem|st has no idea what he is talking about but memories back from the days he used to set them up by hand...
Nov 18 10:39:19 <lardman> bbiab, need to boot up Windows, yay! not
Nov 18 10:42:36 <FIQ|n900> Hm, i fixed it
Nov 18 10:42:39 <FIQ|n900> thanks anywa
Nov 18 10:42:39 <FIQ|n900> y
Nov 18 10:54:36 <alterego> Well, there's a confirmed bug in Qt Mobility location 1.0.0 for the N900, which means reported speed is in kph and not m/s as documented.
Nov 18 10:54:39 <crashanddie> lardman|gone, sorry, can't seem to find the issue
Nov 18 10:54:58 <crashanddie> miles per second?
Nov 18 10:55:04 <alterego> metres
Nov 18 10:55:12 <crashanddie> meter
Nov 18 10:55:43 <alterego> metre
Nov 18 10:56:59 <crashanddie> alterego, this channel is most definitely american, so please use the real world, real word "meter" rather than that stupid british spelling "metre"
Nov 18 10:57:10 <alterego> I'd say it's European actually.
Nov 18 10:57:14 <chem|st> FIQ|n900: and what was the right way or does fix it mean just to be working but not the way it is supposed to?!
Nov 18 10:57:25 <alterego> European ..
Nov 18 10:57:36 <marmoute> Us or Imperial Meter ?
Nov 18 10:57:48 <chem|st> crashanddie: wtf?
Nov 18 10:57:57 <alterego> You might be willing to subject people to retard spelling but I'm not :P
Nov 18 10:58:03 <crashanddie> chem|st, did I just break the channel's sarcasm meter?
Nov 18 10:58:10 <FauxFaux> Britfags unite. \o/
Nov 18 10:58:20 <crashanddie> FauxFaux, gtfo /b/tard
Nov 18 10:59:35 <crashanddie> alterego, i mostly support british spelling rules, but meter is one where I just can't comply. We even write "speedometer", not "speedometre".
Nov 18 10:59:54 <alterego> That's because a meter is something else.
Nov 18 11:00:01 <crashanddie> no, it's not
Nov 18 11:00:08 <chem|st> crashanddie: it is
Nov 18 11:00:09 <alterego> A meter is for measuring, a metre is a unit of measurement :P
Nov 18 11:00:11 <FauxFaux> I have to say, I don't particularily like metre, but there's some cases where the American spelling looks wrong.  Like centre.
Nov 18 11:00:35 <chem|st> meter is something to measure and has actualy nothing to do with distance!
Nov 18 11:00:36 <FIQ|n900> <chem|st> FIQ|n900: and what was the right way or does fix it mean just to be working but not the way it is supposed to?!
Nov 18 11:00:45 <crashanddie> "Measuring devices (such as parking meter, speedometer) are traditionally spelt "...meter" in all countries.[19] The word "meter", signifying any such device, has the same derivation as the word "metre", denoting the unit of length this article is about."
Nov 18 11:00:56 <crashanddie> It's the same bloody thing, it comes from the same bloody thing
Nov 18 11:01:08 <chem|st> crashanddie: different meaning
Nov 18 11:01:08 <FauxFaux> Perhaps that's why it looks wrong.
Nov 18 11:01:13 <FIQ|n900> Well, I ended up moving my forced source of .bashrc to the last readed file (.bashrc isn't readed properly if you set bash as default shell on maemo)
Nov 18 11:01:20 <FIQ|n900> So, not the correct way i guess
Nov 18 11:01:28 <chem|st> FIQ|n900: ok ;)
Nov 18 11:01:42 <crashanddie> chem|st, metre comes from French, correct?
Nov 18 11:02:30 <crashanddie> chem|st, and mètre, is a synonym for either the unit of length, and a device to measure something.
Nov 18 11:02:45 <crashanddie> chem|st, hence, there is no reason why there would a difference in spelling between the two in English.
Nov 18 11:02:53 <FIQ|n900> Hm, i like filebox
Nov 18 11:03:05 <alterego> crashanddie: there is, because French isn't English :P
Nov 18 11:03:10 <FIQ|n900> Simple fingerfriendly ui as the default manager, and includes more features
Nov 18 11:03:14 <crashanddie> I understand "it's like that, and that's the way it is" -- RunDMC, however I can't help but disagree with the randomness of it
Nov 18 11:04:11 <alterego> Custom speed and bearing indicator: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/Screenshot-20101118-104918.png
Nov 18 11:04:11 <chem|st> crashanddie: in case of english its is french yes and the french word is greek from measure (metron)
Nov 18 11:04:14 <alterego> :)
Nov 18 11:06:04 <crashanddie> chem|st, well, from latin more likely
Nov 18 11:06:36 <chem|st> crashanddie: sure there is as the one word is from german and the other from french
Nov 18 11:06:41 <chem|st> crashanddie: no greek
Nov 18 11:07:13 <crashanddie> chem|st, so latin metrum has nothing to do with it?
Nov 18 11:07:13 <alterego> Greek is older than latin,
Nov 18 11:07:21 <alterego> Latin is based on Greek
Nov 18 11:07:34 <crashanddie> latin probably got it from greek, but very few french words are from greek, and more directly from latin
Nov 18 11:07:46 <alterego> Ffff.
Nov 18 11:07:48 <alterego> poppy cock
Nov 18 11:08:10 <crashanddie> if you allow yourself to ignore Latin, then you could say English metre is based off Greek as well (you're just skipping French and Latin)
Nov 18 11:08:33 <alterego> m'hmm
Nov 18 11:09:00 <crashanddie> I win, anyone who disagrees gets a 24h ban.
Nov 18 11:09:19 * alterego disagrees
Nov 18 11:09:46 * crashanddie gives alterego a Bachelor of Arts in Nursing for 24h.
Nov 18 11:09:47 <fnordianslip> bah, at least in english we don't care what gender a table is. IIRC european languages don't even agree on that.
Nov 18 11:10:24 <chem|st> crashanddie: the american english meter is from german the british english is from french and both directional from greek (and there is a difference if a word is actualy from greek or latin)
Nov 18 11:11:09 <lardman> hmm
Nov 18 11:11:11 <crashanddie> chem|st, yes, and in the french's case, it's from latin.
Nov 18 11:11:19 <crashanddie> chem|st, _not_ greek.
Nov 18 11:11:25 <lardman> you reckon the US derives its words from German?
Nov 18 11:11:36 <chem|st> crashanddie: would you mind to stab yourself?
Nov 18 11:11:48 <crashanddie> lardman, obviously, American English is much closer to German than to British English.
Nov 18 11:11:48 <nidO> i'm highly confused as to what you guys are even arguing about. does someone not know the difference between a meter and a metre?
Nov 18 11:11:58 <chem|st> lardman: many english words derive from german
Nov 18 11:12:03 <lardman> crashanddie: why?
Nov 18 11:12:18 <crashanddie> yup, I definitely broke the sarcasm meter today.
Nov 18 11:12:29 <lardman> chem|st: of course, but saying that the US English skips the English English root is what I'm wondering about
Nov 18 11:12:33 <Trewas> fnordianslip: don't generalise too much, finnish does not care what gender is even in he/she :)
Nov 18 11:12:57 <chem|st> lardman: because the language english comes from the north cost of central europe + french
Nov 18 11:13:10 <chem|st> lardman: they do
Nov 18 11:13:19 <crashanddie> And I thought English came from the british isles
Nov 18 11:13:41 <fnordianslip> Trewas: I assume you mean the language, or are all Finns bisexual?
Nov 18 11:13:50 <lardman> I know where English was derived from, my point is that the US English comes from UK English and that comes from Europe, etc
Nov 18 11:13:52 <crashanddie> I mean, sure, you can argue that any language doesn't come from the country it originated, but really is a big melting pot of different cultures
Nov 18 11:13:59 <crashanddie> but honestly, that's quite a given, isn't it?
Nov 18 11:14:15 <Trewas> fnordianslip: mostly language
Nov 18 11:14:46 <chem|st> crashanddie: it is a matter of what was first
Nov 18 11:15:29 <crashanddie> ok, well then all languages originated from a cry for help, a million years ago, somewhere in Africa
Nov 18 11:15:42 <fnordianslip> Trewas: Does that make Finnish easier to learn?
Nov 18 11:16:08 <chem|st> lardman: the vote on the primary language in the usa was faought between german and english and as likely as germans render words in their language the other way round happens too
Nov 18 11:17:06 <lardman> chem|st: hmm
Nov 18 11:17:07 <Trewas> fnordianslip: maybe a tiny bit, but I think the general consensus is that it is not very easy language to learn because it is so different compared to anything else
Nov 18 11:17:13 <lardman> I'll take that under advisement
Nov 18 11:17:31 <crashanddie> chem|st, so what you're trying to say, is that the real reason americans came to help europe during the second world war is because they all suffer from a multi-generation oedipus complex and they wanted to kick their grand-father's butt?
Nov 18 11:17:57 <fnordianslip> Tr
Nov 18 11:18:01 <fnordianslip> oops.
Nov 18 11:18:10 <crashanddie> fnordianslip, you forgot td
Nov 18 11:18:34 <fnordianslip> Trewas: I guess I'll give it a miss, as I'm already useless at French and Germen :)
Nov 18 11:19:10 <fnordianslip> crashanddie: evidently
Nov 18 11:19:11 <crashanddie> you're pretty rubbish at English too
Nov 18 11:19:21 <crashanddie> "Germen"?
Nov 18 11:20:01 <crashanddie> OMG, GERMEN IS THE BASIC FORM OF AN ORGANISM
Nov 18 11:20:03 <fnordianslip> crashanddie: er, oh.  I blame either my fingers or this macbook pro's keybd, but I'm a typo spammer
Nov 18 11:20:10 <crashanddie> We all originated from the germs...
Nov 18 11:20:20 <crashanddie> s/ms/mans/
Nov 18 11:20:20 <infobot> crashanddie meant: We all originated from the germans...
Nov 18 11:20:46 <crashanddie> Quick, we must re-write the bible to fix it
Nov 18 11:20:57 <fnordianslip> i read on the BBC that the French have closer links to Neanderthals than most other Europeans
Nov 18 11:21:26 <crashanddie> Jeebus wasn't born in Nazareth, he was from Saarbrucken
Nov 18 11:22:15 <chem|st> crashanddie: no ramstein
Nov 18 11:22:32 <fnordianslip> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8660940.stm
Nov 18 11:22:59 <crashanddie> fnordianslip, it's classified under hi/sci, which is obviously a typo for sci/fi
Nov 18 11:23:07 <chem|st> crashanddie: and as in god we trust we build an airbase at his house of birth
Nov 18 11:24:04 <crashanddie> fnordianslip, actually, that's the whole Eurasian branch you're qualifying as French
Nov 18 11:24:33 <fnordianslip> crashanddie:  it says French in the graphic, that's good enough for me :)
Nov 18 11:25:14 <lardman> I like the way French has been classified as a human grouping along the lines of Han-chinese
Nov 18 11:25:39 <crashanddie> I like how Elitist it is, too
Nov 18 11:25:45 <crashanddie> French at the top, with a house in the background
Nov 18 11:26:14 <crashanddie> all the others in the bush
Nov 18 11:26:39 <fnordianslip> is there a bush in France?
Nov 18 11:27:19 <chem|st> fnordianslip: kind of
Nov 18 11:27:20 <crashanddie> well, we do have plants, so I'm guessing at least one of those should qualify
Nov 18 11:27:42 <crashanddie> or maybe you mean Sarkozy? Yeah, he's kind of a Bush.
Nov 18 11:27:48 <fnordianslip> i promise not to mention onion fields
Nov 18 11:27:50 <lardman> lol http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-11774367
Nov 18 11:28:11 <fnordianslip> lol
Nov 18 11:28:23 <crashanddie> Looking up static.bbc.co.uk
Nov 18 11:28:31 <chem|st> fnordianslip: the boarder to germany got some kind of tropical climate spots where us-tropic-troops train before they get send out
Nov 18 11:29:30 <crashanddie> lolwut
Nov 18 11:29:47 <crashanddie> border with germany somewhere in Africa, maybe.
Nov 18 11:30:18 <chem|st> crashanddie: at this point you qualify as "got no clue about"
Nov 18 11:30:32 <crashanddie> chem|st, [citation needed]
Nov 18 11:30:32 <Appiah> :)
Nov 18 11:30:44 <crashanddie> seriously, show me a tropical spot in France
Nov 18 11:30:49 <crashanddie> in metropolitan France...
Nov 18 11:30:56 <lardman> Vietnam
Nov 18 11:31:02 <derf> Haha.
Nov 18 11:31:03 <crashanddie> Not metropolitan
Nov 18 11:31:24 <lardman> Hanoi seems quiite metropolitan ;)
Nov 18 11:31:47 <crashanddie> lardman, and you seem quite metrosexual :P
Nov 18 11:31:56 <lardman> you love it
Nov 18 11:32:06 <crashanddie> I do
Nov 18 11:32:10 <lardman> :D
Nov 18 11:32:23 <crashanddie> wait, what are we talking about?
Nov 18 11:32:35 <lardman> no idea, I'm going to do some work
Nov 18 11:32:45 <crashanddie> waiting for gf to pick me up for lunch
Nov 18 11:32:51 * crashanddie goes to troll on omegle
Nov 18 11:33:20 <crashanddie> btw, can you hear that wooshing sound?
Nov 18 11:33:30 <chem|st> crashanddie: plaine alluviale du rhine not metropolitan but do you expect it?
Nov 18 11:34:05 <crashanddie> hang on, dns is having trouble, let me check it out
Nov 18 11:34:39 <crashanddie> chem|st, mate, those are swamps
Nov 18 11:34:42 <crashanddie> and it is metropolitan
Nov 18 11:35:13 <chem|st> at least back in the '90s us troops had a stop by before they were send out, don't know if they are still going
Nov 18 11:35:35 <crashanddie> for those who are not familiar with french terminology: "France Metropolitaine" means the geographic country on the continent of Europe, not any of the islands (some of which can easily be qualified as tropical)
Nov 18 11:36:03 <chem|st> crashanddie: ah ok that way you are refering
Nov 18 11:36:19 <crashanddie> aye
Nov 18 11:36:26 <crashanddie> sorry for the confusion
Nov 18 11:36:33 <chem|st> yes they are swamps but what is th difference?
Nov 18 11:36:40 <crashanddie> well, hardly tropical
Nov 18 11:37:30 <chem|st> in the summertime you get 99% humidity and 30-40°C...
Nov 18 11:37:41 <crashanddie> erhm, no you don't
Nov 18 11:37:57 <crashanddie> there's not a spot in france that reaches 99% humidity AND 40C
Nov 18 11:38:28 <crashanddie> I mean, I was in Brisbane, now that was 96% humidity, and 42C, and geographically tropical. Nothing in France compares to that.
Nov 18 11:38:58 <crashanddie> You might have the Camargue, with about 85% humidity and 30C
Nov 18 11:39:05 <crashanddie> but that's hardly close to the German border
Nov 18 11:39:30 <crashanddie> Perpignan, where I live, is about 70% humidity at 35 during high summer
Nov 18 11:41:23 <smhar> greetings
Nov 18 11:42:28 <chem|st> crashanddie: I measured myself in the city as I did not beliefe the forecast and down the street I had 38° when the stations said 31° just a few minutes after it was raining, all your cloth got clammy in seconds just from being outside
Nov 18 11:42:57 <smhar> I am planning to upgrade to PR1.3 and I've read somewhere that I need to have 'enough' free space in rootfs. I am trying but can not get more than 44mb free on it. is it 'enough'? how to free more?
Nov 18 11:43:17 <crashanddie> smhar, reports of required free space vary between 55 and 75MB
Nov 18 11:43:24 <chem|st> smhar: uninstall some of the 3rd party software
Nov 18 11:43:58 <crashanddie> chem|st, I don't really count "right after raining" a valid full-on tropical experience ;) But meh. Who cares.
Nov 18 11:44:05 <smhar> crashanddie, 75MB????? that is too much
Nov 18 11:44:09 <smhar> :-)
Nov 18 11:44:30 <chem|st> crashanddie: in the "rheinauen" you don't need it freshly rained...
Nov 18 11:45:48 <crashanddie> anyway, out for lunch
Nov 18 11:45:50 <crashanddie> 'later all
Nov 18 11:47:26 <chem|st> smhar: 44MB is hard... make a backup and uninstall all the stuff you currently do not need, after the upgrade is done you can just revert the backup and all stuff you did uninstall installs back again
Nov 18 11:48:59 <smhar> chem|st, this sounds like the only sane solution, although it is an insane one :-)
Nov 18 11:49:21 <chem|st> smhar: you can backup and flash instead
Nov 18 11:49:33 <chem|st> smhar: probably the faster way
Nov 18 11:50:38 <chem|st> smhar: or move /usr/lib/loacales_archives to somewhere else and symlink back
Nov 18 11:51:29 <smhar> chem|st, wait, this could be a quick fix, what is in that directory?
Nov 18 11:53:11 <smhar> chem|st, oh, I do not have that directory in my system? is this strange?
Nov 18 11:54:22 <alterego> Hrm, he colour depth of my QWidget is awful.
Nov 18 11:54:26 <alterego> s/he/the/
Nov 18 11:54:27 <infobot> alterego meant: Hrm, the colour depth of my QWidget is awful.
Nov 18 11:54:40 <alterego> Not getting a nice clean gradient for my background image.
Nov 18 11:59:24 <chem|st> smhar: one second I look it up... I guess I am wrong with the path
Nov 18 12:00:23 <chem|st> smhar: it is /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive and it is a file
Nov 18 12:01:16 <smhar> chem|st, it is 22.8M
Nov 18 12:01:22 <chem|st> smhar: yes
Nov 18 12:02:03 <smhar> chem|st, that means I will have 67m free :-)
Nov 18 12:03:20 <chem|st> smhar: do not put it in mydocs!
Nov 18 12:03:50 <smhar> chem|st, ok
Nov 18 12:05:50 <chem|st> usr lib on its own is 212.8MB
Nov 18 12:06:16 <chem|st> without optification it would be >500MB
Nov 18 12:06:18 <MohammadAG> UBIFS is compressed
Nov 18 12:06:51 <mece> alterego, ping
Nov 18 12:20:04 <rmrfchik> damn, can't answer phone -- too many swapping :(
Nov 18 12:22:55 <smhar> chem|st, so can I move -and symlink- the whole /use/lib?
Nov 18 12:24:12 <alterego> mece: pong
Nov 18 12:26:27 <MohammadAG> smhar, NO
Nov 18 12:26:37 <MohammadAG> don't even attempt to
Nov 18 12:28:17 <smhar> ok,, so, MohammadAG, what 'big' folder/files I can move to free more space in rootfs?
Nov 18 12:28:34 <MohammadAG> /var/lib/dpkg
Nov 18 12:28:46 <MohammadAG> be careful not to lose it
Nov 18 12:30:29 <Afteris> hello maemo world!
Nov 18 12:31:00 <smhar> MohammadAG, it is around 9MB, good
Nov 18 12:53:01 <pablo2> How possible correct this error "dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/osso-mission-control_5.20+0m5_armel.deb" ?  Itry reinstall and occurs error again
Nov 18 13:30:12 <Jaffa> Af'noon
Nov 18 13:31:29 <DocScrutinizer> lool: Jaffa
Nov 18 13:31:34 <DocScrutinizer> lo even
Nov 18 13:33:25 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: seems the color depth of the N900 display isn't just studio standard
Nov 18 13:44:29 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: I have ~200..500 tickets to open here. :-P What do you suggest?
Nov 18 13:45:06 <DocScrutinizer> Jaffa: I can even provide a patch for each one of those ickets
Nov 18 13:45:13 <merlin1991> woha
Nov 18 13:45:21 <merlin1991> on what did you hack?
Nov 18 13:45:35 <DocScrutinizer> just .desktop files
Nov 18 13:45:53 <merlin1991> and what was wrong in all of them? :D
Nov 18 13:45:58 <DocScrutinizer> 3 of 5 are wrong version=
Nov 18 13:46:20 <merlin1991> does that have any inpact on the user experience?
Nov 18 13:46:26 <DocScrutinizer> version=1.0 PERIOD
Nov 18 13:46:34 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Nov 18 13:46:46 <DocScrutinizer> seems it's absolutely irrelevant
Nov 18 13:48:46 <DocScrutinizer> it *might* have massive impact however, if ever the version of .desktop files starts to matter (e.g. when meego is using an incompatible version=2.0 spec for those files' format, and is actually looking at the version string to determine what to do with a .desktop file)
Nov 18 13:50:39 <DocScrutinizer> in fact if the code accessing *.desktop wasn't written sloppy, it *should* have impact right now. As we don't know what to do with a version=1.6.1 .desktop file. It's a yet to defined visitor from the future
Nov 18 13:51:25 <merlin1991> what is the correct version string and what's the wrong one?
Nov 18 13:51:38 <DocScrutinizer> for now version=1.0
Nov 18 13:51:57 <DocScrutinizer> NOT the version of your app!!
Nov 18 13:52:02 <merlin1991> ofc :)
Nov 18 13:52:05 <edheldil> why not use Lintian ? ;-)
Nov 18 13:52:26 <Jef91> Extra-Testing is still repository.maemo.org/extra-testing Dis: fremantle Comp: free non-free right?
Nov 18 13:52:49 <DocScrutinizer> looks right
Nov 18 13:53:19 <SpeedEvil> fremantle spelled with two es only
Nov 18 13:54:10 <DocScrutinizer> rsp looks wrong and odd, as there's no room for 1.2 versions anymore. But *sigh* and screwit, we didn't fix this for 1.2, so why fix it for 1.3?
Nov 18 13:54:24 <Jef91> "fremantle" right? Extras are freshing for me but not testing :-/
Nov 18 13:56:11 <DocScrutinizer> Jef91: temporary downtime? We see that frequently
Nov 18 13:56:25 <Jef91> bleh hopefully
Nov 18 13:56:27 <Jef91> Such trash
Nov 18 13:56:36 <DocScrutinizer> Jef91: what's the error?
Nov 18 13:57:01 <Jef91> just that good old failed to refresh
Nov 18 13:57:17 <Jef91> giving a 404
Nov 18 13:57:23 <DocScrutinizer> aaah
Nov 18 13:57:48 <DocScrutinizer> probably the .gz are missing another time
Nov 18 13:58:17 <Jef91> so just try again later?
Nov 18 13:58:21 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Nov 18 13:58:30 <DocScrutinizer> tomorrow maybe
Nov 18 13:58:58 <Jef91> Wonderful. Hope I don't need to use this thing much today then. No applications becuase I to reflash the fucker
Nov 18 13:59:31 <DocScrutinizer> usually -testing pkg are also in -devel
Nov 18 14:00:04 * Jef91 gives that a go
Nov 18 14:00:46 <DocScrutinizer> also sometimes it helps to resolve URL to another IP of the server farm, as some errors occur for a fraction of the servers only
Nov 18 14:02:21 <Jef91> Why do the N900 repos have these issues?
Nov 18 14:02:28 <Jef91> Never had such a time with Debian/Ubuntu
Nov 18 14:03:28 <Appiah> what issues?
Nov 18 14:03:40 <Jef91> oh just general repositories sucking
Nov 18 14:03:47 <Appiah> ?
Nov 18 14:03:48 <Trewas> Jef91: maybe they care even a little bit that their repositories work
Nov 18 14:04:12 <Appiah> what ? the repos are offline or what do you mean
Nov 18 14:04:53 <Jef91> oh! Praise the lord. They appear to be working
Nov 18 14:05:01 <Jef91> I guess pounding refresh is good for something on occasion
Nov 18 14:05:22 <Appiah> sure it's just not your connection?
Nov 18 14:05:34 * Jef91 looks at the IRC Window
Nov 18 14:05:36 <DocScrutinizer> 404
Nov 18 14:05:38 <Jef91> Yep. Pretty sure.
Nov 18 14:06:00 <Jef91> Its going now Doc. So whatever it is hopefully resolved itself
Nov 18 14:06:18 <DocScrutinizer> akamai load balancing, plus sometimes some servers crapping out on rsync/whatever
Nov 18 14:06:22 <Jef91> Now I just need to find my sygic and docs to go installer
Nov 18 14:13:24 <DocScrutinizer> edheldil: lintian?
Nov 18 14:13:52 <edheldil> sry, confused .desktop and debian/control
Nov 18 14:13:58 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Nov 18 14:14:32 <edheldil> but some automated check would prevent this :)
Nov 18 14:15:01 <DocScrutinizer> I'd use greasemonkey to bomb an automatically generated 547 tickets into trac, if only trac had a category for each pkg :-/
Nov 18 14:15:43 <DocScrutinizer> edheldil: heh, probably that's a good approach
Nov 18 14:16:38 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: how about adding a check to buildhost for *.desktop "version=" string must be "version=1.0" if existing?
Nov 18 14:17:17 <DocScrutinizer> should be dead simple to implement
Nov 18 14:18:01 <DocScrutinizer> but would carp out on 50+% of genuine Nokia pkg as well :-P
Nov 18 14:19:00 <DocScrutinizer> well nobody said Nokia is any better on coding correctly than anybody else in community :-)
Nov 18 14:21:30 <DocScrutinizer> I'd not be surprised though to find a line like #if 0    if (version != "1.0") {  // who wrote this shit? We fixed it. (c) Nokia
Nov 18 14:24:23 <DocScrutinizer> of course if somebody really wrote a numeric compare for a string, then Nokia would have been right :-P
Nov 18 14:25:27 <DocScrutinizer> unless that's c++ and the != got overloaded for strings
Nov 18 14:26:42 <DocScrutinizer> humm, that seems to be rather weird and fuzzy. So lemme try again:
Nov 18 14:27:29 <DocScrutinizer> I'd not be surprised to find Nokia patched out the code to check for *.desktop version being one that the program can cope with
Nov 18 14:28:20 <DocScrutinizer> so they enable broken .desktop files to work in maemo, and Nokia can continue with their habit to abuse version=
Nov 18 14:30:33 <DocScrutinizer> anyway 500 tickets would considerably pump up my karma :-P
Nov 18 14:31:01 <edheldil> is 500 tickets the same as killing 500 kittens??? :)
Nov 18 14:32:18 <DocScrutinizer> no idea, never ever killed 500 kittens
Nov 18 15:02:35 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format#Standard_keys
Nov 18 15:06:32 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer =)
Nov 18 15:08:51 <jophish_> Hi all
Nov 18 15:09:24 <jophish_> Is there the capability to read incoming texts and run a shell script to respond to them?
Nov 18 15:09:52 <chem|st> jophish_: yes
Nov 18 15:09:55 <DocScrutinizer> incoming?
Nov 18 15:10:05 <jophish_> well, any texts
Nov 18 15:10:05 <DocScrutinizer> SMS?
Nov 18 15:10:11 <jophish_> DocScrutinizer: Yes
Nov 18 15:10:27 <lardman> DBus message
Nov 18 15:10:33 <chem|st> ^^
Nov 18 15:10:45 <DocScrutinizer> jophish_: yes, there are pkgs using this to trigger actions
Nov 18 15:11:00 <jophish_> fantastic
Nov 18 15:11:10 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: he asked for "capability"
Nov 18 15:12:06 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: yes. I'm only aware of pkgs that seem to exploit that capability
Nov 18 15:12:19 <jophish_> Essentially, what I have is a program that takes words as input and responds itself
Nov 18 15:12:27 <jophish_> a chatbot essentially
Nov 18 15:13:20 <chem|st> jophish_: sms script for text to number is available somewhere
Nov 18 15:13:38 <chem|st> jophish_: in python afair
Nov 18 15:13:50 <jophish_> that sounds like somethign I want
Nov 18 15:16:06 <chem|st> jophish_: email?
Nov 18 15:16:17 <chem|st> jophish_: or pastebin?
Nov 18 15:20:05 <jophish_> chem|st: I suppose something like this is what I want: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/DBus/DBus_in_Freemantle
Nov 18 15:20:39 <chem|st> jophish_: http://pastebin.com/Xje5rLgi
Nov 18 15:21:39 <jophish_> wow
Nov 18 15:21:40 <chem|st> ok or email too?
Nov 18 15:21:47 <jophish_> that's fine thanks
Nov 18 15:22:14 <jophish_> I'm sure I will be able to hack this to suit my needs.
Nov 18 15:22:18 <jophish_> time to learn pythin
Nov 18 15:22:55 <Janne123> hi
Nov 18 15:23:23 <chem|st> jophish_: it converts everything in that horrifying octet format of sms and sand to a number in international format (dont remember if only international)
Nov 18 15:23:35 <chem|st> Janne123: lo'
Nov 18 15:23:35 <toggles> "the brand from a previous generation"
Nov 18 15:24:04 <toggles> http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/18/steve-wozniak-android-will-be-the-dominant-smartphone-platform/
Nov 18 15:24:30 <toggles> if woz say's it's so, i'm getting a droid
Nov 18 15:24:49 <chem|st> toggles: lol
Nov 18 15:25:01 <Janne123> how i zoom on xchat? im using n900
Nov 18 15:28:09 <chem|st> Janne123: settings->preferences->font and change the size
Nov 18 15:28:56 <Janne123>  well, reflash helped me in my app problem and i was trying to install nitdroid. when i tried to create folder with x-term like in quide it didnt do anything, what to do?
Nov 18 15:30:27 <chem|st> Janne123: ->querry
Nov 18 15:30:35 <chem|st> query...
Nov 18 15:31:44 <dRbiG> anyone living in brussels here?
Nov 18 15:32:48 <chem|st> dRbiG: nope 3h...
Nov 18 15:34:06 <FauxFaux> Brussels is the city in which I've thrown up the second highest number of times, I think.
Nov 18 15:34:14 <dRbiG> i'll be there next weekend and grabbing a beer alone seems a bit sad ;)
Nov 18 15:34:15 <dRbiG> lol
Nov 18 15:34:28 <FauxFaux> (Goddamn fosdem.)
Nov 18 15:41:48 <lardman> my head is starting to hurt: http://www.sudokuwiki.org/Strategy_Families
Nov 18 15:49:59 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: (python SMS thingie) what's usage() going to do?
Nov 18 15:50:36 <jophish_> crash things by the looks of it
Nov 18 15:50:43 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Nov 18 15:52:00 * alterego likes http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11766846
Nov 18 15:55:44 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: I have no idea!
Nov 18 16:00:51 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: it defines an exception in error handler
Nov 18 16:01:01 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: don'T?
Nov 18 16:01:08 <DocScrutinizer> err
Nov 18 16:02:07 <DocScrutinizer>  for opt, arg in opts:
Nov 18 16:02:08 <DocScrutinizer>     if opt in ("-h", "--help"):
Nov 18 16:02:10 <DocScrutinizer>       usage()
Nov 18 16:02:11 <DocScrutinizer>       sys.exit()
Nov 18 16:03:42 <DocScrutinizer> usually this is supposed to call a function usage(){ printf("this is ACMEprog, use for make me a sandwich: sudo ACMEprog make me-a-sandwich")
Nov 18 16:04:49 <DocScrutinizer> I don't see any def usage():
Nov 18 16:05:23 <DocScrutinizer> so I thought this is some python builtin, which I don't know what exactly it does
Nov 18 16:06:02 <DocScrutinizer> though I'd expect it to print the first large comment in a py prog to stdout, or sth similar
Nov 18 16:06:08 <chem|st> equivalent argparse
Nov 18 16:07:16 <chem|st> I am not that into python... but that is an err parser afaik
Nov 18 16:07:34 <DocScrutinizer> usage()  ???
Nov 18 16:08:19 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: no the whole thing is a [help,err] handling
Nov 18 16:08:36 <DocScrutinizer> well, I'm aware of that
Nov 18 16:09:24 <chem|st> the usage() outputs all "usage" if called
Nov 18 16:09:45 <chem|st> thats what I understand from it
Nov 18 16:10:27 <chem|st> same for -h and --help
Nov 18 16:10:28 <chem|st> #
Nov 18 16:10:31 <chem|st> if opt in ("-h", "--help"):
Nov 18 16:10:31 <chem|st> # usage()
Nov 18 16:10:31 <chem|st> # sys.exit()#
Nov 18 16:10:31 <chem|st> if opt in ("-h", "--help"):
Nov 18 16:10:31 <chem|st> # usage()
Nov 18 16:10:34 <chem|st> # sys.exit()
Nov 18 16:10:55 <DocScrutinizer> isn't that exactly what I pasted above?
Nov 18 16:11:25 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: ah right, ok
Nov 18 16:11:30 <DocScrutinizer> but I find no >>def usage:
Nov 18 16:11:49 <DocScrutinizer> >>def usage():   even
Nov 18 16:12:11 <DocScrutinizer> so...:
Nov 18 16:12:14 <DocScrutinizer> Traceback (most recent call last):
Nov 18 16:12:16 <DocScrutinizer>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
Nov 18 16:12:17 <DocScrutinizer> NameError: name 'usage' is not defined
Nov 18 16:12:27 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: mmh
Nov 18 16:12:32 <DocScrutinizer> is probably what you get
Nov 18 16:12:47 <kerio> you should use optparse anyway
Nov 18 16:13:02 <DocScrutinizer> I should do what?
Nov 18 16:13:14 <kerio> it's in the standard library
Nov 18 16:13:18 <kerio> parses commandline options
Nov 18 16:13:30 <DocScrutinizer> err, uhuh
Nov 18 16:15:01 <DocScrutinizer> kerio: thanks for pointing me to that, but that doesn't help me to understand what http://pastebin.com/Xje5rLgi is doing in line #164
Nov 18 16:15:46 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: I get it...
Nov 18 16:16:05 <DocScrutinizer> and line #170
Nov 18 16:16:12 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: there is no help yet so no usage is defined yet
Nov 18 16:16:26 <DocScrutinizer> isn't that what I said all the time?
Nov 18 16:16:48 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-11-18 16:57:58] <DocScrutinizer> I don't see any def usage():
Nov 18 16:16:56 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: this is not my script... I never said...
Nov 18 16:18:02 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: yeah and I did not know if it is an python internal call from headers or not so I am sorry to confused you additionaly
Nov 18 16:19:51 <kerio> use optparse
Nov 18 16:19:56 <kerio> it will *make* a usage screen for you
Nov 18 16:24:01 <DocScrutinizer> kerio: for now I'm using nothing except my brain and a html-browser
Nov 18 16:24:12 <kerio> i was talking to chem|st then
Nov 18 16:26:37 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: (internal call from headers) that's what I was wondering as well, and seems kerio sugests there is some predefined usage() in optparse
Nov 18 16:26:55 <kerio> whoops, argparse is better
Nov 18 16:27:40 <kerio> but it's new in 2.7, so...
Nov 18 16:28:07 <DocScrutinizer> so, again my initial question: what is it that usage() is going to print to stdout?
Nov 18 16:28:26 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: NameError: usage not defined
Nov 18 16:29:02 <DocScrutinizer> uhuh - now you confused me completely
Nov 18 16:29:22 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: if there's no usage() and you call usage(), then python happily goes "wtf dude"
Nov 18 16:29:40 <kerio> optparse has a default usage screen where it lists the options if you call it with -h or if you use wrong options
Nov 18 16:29:46 <kerio> http://docs.python.org/library/optparse.html
Nov 18 16:29:47 <DocScrutinizer> are you suggesting the regular reaction to python xy --help should be NameError: usage not defined ??
Nov 18 16:29:55 <kerio> of course not
Nov 18 16:30:15 <kerio> because good scripts use optparse/argparse or define a way to display some help :)
Nov 18 16:30:45 <chem|st> kerio: yeah argparse is what I said earlier and that would be my way too (as 20 lines of code get 5...)
Nov 18 16:31:03 <kerio> but argparse is just a slightly better optparse
Nov 18 16:31:11 <kerio> and there's no argparse in 2.5
Nov 18 16:31:21 <kerio> optparse was introduced in python 2.3
Nov 18 16:31:32 <kerio> optparse is a more convenient, flexible, and powerful library for parsing command-line options than the old getopt module.
Nov 18 16:31:39 <chem|st> kerio: that explains my 2.5 issue lately ;)
Nov 18 16:31:43 <kerio> heh
Nov 18 16:32:00 <kerio> see, it's all there *in the docs*
Nov 18 16:32:21 <DocScrutinizer> I start to hate python
Nov 18 16:33:08 <kerio> :(
Nov 18 16:33:11 <kerio> python loves you!
Nov 18 16:36:29 <jdphone> hi
Nov 18 16:38:59 <chem|st> jdphone: lo'
Nov 18 17:05:20 <Janne123> hello, could anyone help? pr1.3 with power-kernel and nitdroid
Nov 18 17:05:45 <jacekowski> ask
Nov 18 17:06:09 <DocScrutinizer> kerio: wow, that argparse is a monster
Nov 18 17:06:25 <kerio> indeed
Nov 18 17:06:26 <kerio> :)
Nov 18 17:06:31 <Janne123> chem|st said me that i have to ask help from here:)
Nov 18 17:06:41 <DocScrutinizer> ~ask
Nov 18 17:06:42 <infobot> Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
Nov 18 17:06:43 <chem|st> indeed ;)
Nov 18 17:06:51 <chem|st> ok I elaborate
Nov 18 17:07:39 <Janne123> well, what u want know?
Nov 18 17:07:56 <chem|st> Janne123 got PR1.3 with power-kernel (version I do not know) and wants to install nitdroid, device is prepared now for install but I do not know about p-kernel issues
Nov 18 17:08:17 <Janne123> ty:)
Nov 18 17:08:27 <chem|st> well I am late now anyway...
Nov 18 17:08:59 <Janne123> i reflashed yesterday pr1.3 global version(newest, i think so)
Nov 18 17:09:26 <chem|st> and Janne123 got another bootloader I don't know if that ships with titan
Nov 18 17:10:06 <chem|st> bye now
Nov 18 17:19:25 <Janne123> does anyone has something ideas for my nitdroid problem!
Nov 18 17:19:29 <Janne123> ?*
Nov 18 17:21:56 <thresh> yo
Nov 18 17:22:10 <thresh> any plans for that 'make linux kernel not suck' patch to arrive in n900's kernels?
Nov 18 17:22:25 <alterego> Not likely.
Nov 18 17:22:41 <alterego> And tbh, I don't think you'll notice a great improvement ..
Nov 18 17:22:57 <thresh> well duh, everything is better than it is right now
Nov 18 17:23:07 <jacekowski> thresh: it's not going to help on n900 anyways
Nov 18 17:23:21 <alterego> thresh: why, what is wrong with now?
Nov 18 17:23:54 <jacekowski> thresh: it's only for high load desktops
Nov 18 17:24:13 <alterego> I bet it'd do more harm than good on the N900 tbh.
Nov 18 17:24:28 <jacekowski> yep
Nov 18 17:24:40 <jacekowski> giving PA less resources
Nov 18 17:25:03 <alterego> Yeah,
Nov 18 17:25:03 <jacekowski> but hmm, giving active app higher priority wouldn't be bad idea
Nov 18 17:25:22 <jacekowski> thing is that would have to be done on X level
Nov 18 17:25:25 <alterego> Until you get a phone call and the callui doesn't start :P
Nov 18 17:25:29 <thresh> alterego: well, everything is laggy
Nov 18 17:25:39 <thresh> say, you receive a gsm call and get your mobile phone in your hand
Nov 18 17:25:44 <alterego> thresh: is it?
Nov 18 17:25:47 <thresh> it redraws to portrait mode and that takes like a second
Nov 18 17:25:52 <jacekowski> thresh: that patch doesn't change your cpu into rubber
Nov 18 17:25:58 <jacekowski> thresh: that's normal
Nov 18 17:26:04 <thresh> orly
Nov 18 17:26:07 <alterego> Well, set it to landscape then.
Nov 18 17:26:18 <alterego> I don't have an issue with the transition tbh ..
Nov 18 17:26:18 <thresh> i know that's gtk... but still that's not normal
Nov 18 17:26:23 <alterego> O_o
Nov 18 17:26:25 <jacekowski> it's on n900
Nov 18 17:26:28 <alterego> Has nothing to do with Gtk
Nov 18 17:26:35 <alterego> It's the app startup time.
Nov 18 17:26:40 <thresh> startup??
Nov 18 17:26:43 <RST38h> heya thresh
Nov 18 17:26:43 <thresh> it is already on a screen
Nov 18 17:26:43 <alterego> If you keep callui open all the time, you wont have that issue.
Nov 18 17:26:50 <jacekowski> thresh: nope
Nov 18 17:26:55 <jacekowski> thresh: it's preload image you see
Nov 18 17:27:02 <jacekowski> thresh: app is starting in background
Nov 18 17:27:04 <thresh> meh
Nov 18 17:27:08 * slonopotamus found out today that python is 60x slower than C on average
Nov 18 17:27:21 <alterego> And if you set it to stay in landscape, it wont need to transition.
Nov 18 17:27:28 <thresh> RST38h: hey, whatsup?
Nov 18 17:27:47 <thresh> alterego: yeah, nice way to add latency for and end-user
Nov 18 17:28:56 <RST38h> thresh: Not much, lazily creating Ovi Suite replacement in php
Nov 18 17:29:03 <alterego> Heh
Nov 18 17:29:16 <alterego> Awful, why not Qt/C++ ? :P
Nov 18 17:33:59 <RST38h> alterego: Because PHP is the best tool for the job
Nov 18 17:34:40 <alterego> w00f
Nov 18 17:36:07 * alterego tries to invisage a time when PHP is anything other than scht.
Nov 18 17:36:42 <ieatlint> people hate on php too much... can't we just go back to hating on perl?
Nov 18 17:37:16 <alterego> I'm non-descriminate of those two :P
Nov 18 17:38:01 <alterego> I expect to get a lot of hate from people soon by publishing my app on Ovi
Nov 18 17:38:08 <alterego> So I'm just trying to be an ass ^.^
Nov 18 17:38:22 <RST38h> php handles its job pretty well
Nov 18 17:38:45 <RST38h> but it is a scripting language, not the solution for all world's problems
Nov 18 17:38:52 <alterego> You're doing it because scripting is easier that programming something properly and better :P
Nov 18 17:38:58 <ieatlint> php is my choice of quick and dirty scripting
Nov 18 17:39:26 <ieatlint> mind you, i wouldn't run a web accelerator written in it like a certain major internet company, but it still does some things quickly and simply
Nov 18 17:39:50 <RST38h> alterego: I am doing it because I need scripting for my project
Nov 18 17:39:57 <alterego> Well, I feel more comfortable doing things in Python or Ruby, if I'm scripting something together.
Nov 18 17:40:07 <alterego> Or UNIX shell stuff.
Nov 18 17:40:20 <RST38h> Well, some people like it from behind, indeed....
Nov 18 17:40:35 <ieatlint> learning curve on php is less for c/c++ devs... that has its benefits
Nov 18 17:41:17 <ieatlint> and php is only that terrible if it becomes a resource bottleneck, which for something like an ovi suite app is not likely
Nov 18 17:42:12 <RST38h> Well, sqlite will most likely become the resource bottleneck
Nov 18 17:42:22 <slonopotamus> ieatlint, i read that as 'good for noobs'
Nov 18 17:42:54 <slonopotamus> 'and code monkeys'
Nov 18 17:43:08 <alterego> Heh
Nov 18 17:43:55 <Arkenoi> seems that missing email notifications still happen with NM in PR1.3
Nov 18 17:44:02 <slonopotamus> learning curve is a one-time problem. performance, bugginess, expressivity do matter always while you use a tool.
Nov 18 17:44:49 <ieatlint> heh
Nov 18 17:45:47 <ieatlint> noob is a language bias based on popular sentiments... i'd fully agree that php isn't the right choice in a lot of circumstances, but no matter how much you disagree, php is a proven language on production systems in MANY places
Nov 18 17:45:56 <ieatlint> and somehow, despite it being php, shit keeps running
Nov 18 17:46:46 <alterego> After hack on hack on hack on hack on hack ...
Nov 18 17:47:03 <slonopotamus> meh. show me _any_ webapp written in java that is vulnerable to sql injections.
Nov 18 17:47:08 <ieatlint> clearly you know better than they do :P
Nov 18 17:47:22 <slonopotamus> and _every_ php is/was
Nov 18 17:47:48 <ieatlint> i'd rather not look at a java webapp long enough to see if it has injection issues
Nov 18 17:49:12 <slonopotamus> the fact that you didn't care to learn it doesn't mean there's something wrong with it.
Nov 18 17:49:29 <ieatlint> i didn't say there was
Nov 18 17:49:55 <ieatlint> i was simply saying that dismissing php was short-sided, i never actually insulted another language, except perl :P
Nov 18 17:49:59 <Janne123> can anyone help with nitdroid on pr1.3?
Nov 18 17:50:15 <alterego> Janne123: #nitdroid
Nov 18 17:50:27 <Janne123> no-one help:)
Nov 18 17:50:33 <slonopotamus> can anyone help with gentoo on pr1.3?
Nov 18 17:50:34 <Janne123> here is more life...
Nov 18 17:50:39 <ieatlint> although i do like being called a noob because i took the time to learn c, but not python
Nov 18 17:50:44 <alterego> Some, less people care here :P
Nov 18 17:50:53 <Janne123> lol
Nov 18 17:51:10 <Janne123> here is friendly guys. right?;)
Nov 18 17:51:22 <Janne123> i have power-kernel
Nov 18 17:52:04 <alterego> Depends on your definition of friendly, seriously Janne123 this isn't the place.
Nov 18 17:53:22 <slonopotamus> Janne123, we eat small girls for dinner. with a very friendly smile.
Nov 18 17:53:30 <slonopotamus> :P
Nov 18 17:53:33 <Janne123> im boy!
Nov 18 17:53:51 <slonopotamus> i didn't say the opposite
Nov 18 17:53:55 <ieatlint> that's good then, most people in here don't know how  to talk to women
Nov 18 17:53:56 <Janne123> janne is boy's name in finland:)
Nov 18 17:55:11 * slonopotamus gets back to his small world conquering program
Nov 18 17:55:19 <Janne123> i change my name, all people thinks im girl:)
Nov 18 17:55:46 <RST38h> slono: got lasers?
Nov 18 17:56:08 <slonopotamus> RST38h, that's too simple
Nov 18 17:56:44 <slonopotamus> RST38h, writing package manager to install skynet :P
Nov 18 17:57:33 <SpeedEvil> http://xkcd.com/353/
Nov 18 18:00:08 <RST38h> slono: youmean, apt-get is notgood enough?
Nov 18 18:00:10 <slonopotamus> SpeedEvil, it should be 'from __future__ import antigravity' :)
Nov 18 18:01:06 <Shapeshifter> damn, my device is totally messed up, and I have no clue why
Nov 18 18:01:09 <Shapeshifter> I didn't even do anything
Nov 18 18:01:28 <slonopotamus> RST38h, it doesn't support useflags :P
Nov 18 18:02:11 <Shapeshifter> microb and opera won't download stuff. they just stop at 0%. microb even freezes with a banner in front, telling me there's not enough space. Sometimes when I upgrade apps, it tells me there's no space. And now like 7/8 of my tasks in the calendar disappeared. randomly.
Nov 18 18:02:20 <Shapeshifter> and I have enough space on all partitions
Nov 18 18:02:52 <Shapeshifter> 360; on home/opt, almost 4G on MyDocs
Nov 18 18:03:02 <Shapeshifter> 66M on rootfs
Nov 18 18:03:07 <Shapeshifter> it's all broken
Nov 18 18:04:21 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: janne123's problem is how to combine powerkernel and nitdroid into a multiboot enabled system on N900. So probably he's not completely wrong in this chan
Nov 18 18:05:47 <DocScrutinizer> though the problem actually is very specific and only few users here will know decent details and can give advice
Nov 18 18:05:58 <hatebreeder> do u know?
Nov 18 18:06:08 <DocScrutinizer> I doubt on #nitdroid it's any better a situation
Nov 18 18:06:17 <hatebreeder> and reflash and restore worked yesterday:)
Nov 18 18:06:32 <hatebreeder> on nitdroid no-one help...
Nov 18 18:08:06 <DocScrutinizer> basically I guess nitdroid *might* come with some "proprietary" multiboot solution, and most recent powerkernel comes with uBoot. I'd be surprised if those two play together nicely
Nov 18 18:09:59 <pupnik> speaking of hate, when are we going to get a translation layer between android and normal linux
Nov 18 18:10:31 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, the porper root question is: "how to integrate nitdroid (and its boot tool whatever it is) into a uBoot enabled multiboot system with maemo as primary system?"
Nov 18 18:12:44 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: proper root question is how to build dalvik with glibc
Nov 18 18:12:46 <hatebreeder> can i remove power_kernel and then try nitdroid somehow?
Nov 18 18:12:47 <DocScrutinizer> additional hint for nitdroid cracks: uBoot is integrated with kernel on NAND kernel partition
Nov 18 18:13:50 <DocScrutinizer> hatebreeder: I can't answer this question as I have no idea about nitdroid
Nov 18 18:13:51 <RST38h> pupnik: there is a project like that for ubuntu
Nov 18 18:14:32 <RST38h> Hmmm, Eldar Murtazin vs Nokia continues
Nov 18 18:15:18 <DocScrutinizer> hatebreeder: and honestly I couldn't care less about Xdridiot, whether an* or nit*
Nov 18 18:15:40 <DocScrutinizer> If I were interested in andridiot I'd have bought a milestone
Nov 18 18:16:53 <DocScrutinizer> I mean that's like buying a apple macbook pro for the sole purpose to run windows on it
Nov 18 18:16:55 <hatebreeder> i had owned sgs, htc desire etvc
Nov 18 18:17:05 <RST38h> Doc: I know a guy who ha done that
Nov 18 18:17:57 <hatebreeder> and i only wanted to test android on n900 but if it doesnt work, i dont try it then
Nov 18 18:21:50 <lardman|home> RST38h: linky?
Nov 18 18:22:22 <RST38h> lardman: it is in Russian
Nov 18 18:22:27 <lardman|home> hatebreeder: some things work, some don't afaiu - e.g. gps doesn't work
Nov 18 18:22:34 <lardman|home> RST38h: ah ok, might skip that then :)
Nov 18 18:22:47 <RST38h> lardman: but, to recap, he claims that nearly 100% of N8 and C7 are defective
Nov 18 18:23:00 <RST38h> lardman: random reboots, bricks
Nov 18 18:23:08 <hatebreeder> lardman,  read bugs etc from nitdroid's webpage:)
Nov 18 18:23:08 <lardman|home> hw or sw?
Nov 18 18:23:14 <RST38h> he clims it is hw
Nov 18 18:23:20 <lardman|home> hatebreeder: ah ok you know about it then
Nov 18 18:23:42 <hatebreeder> i know some issues...
Nov 18 18:23:45 <RST38h> based on some circumstantial data from the comments, it might be Ovi Maps fucking up the filesystem though
Nov 18 18:24:08 <lardman|home> ah well
Nov 18 18:24:18 <RST38h> or his wishful fantasy
Nov 18 18:24:49 <hatebreeder> i like maemo for more than android but i like only to test it
Nov 18 18:25:28 <hatebreeder> does anyone has something ideas what i do with n900?:)
Nov 18 18:25:50 <DocScrutinizer> hatebreeder: if you revert your system to a stock PR1.3 setup (probably by another flashing), so there's no mor epowerkernel and uBoot in the way - you can use nitdroid following their generic instructions about how to install it. This is a mere guess as I never even touched nitdroid or their website or docs
Nov 18 18:25:52 <hatebreeder> i dont know how i ask it but i hope you understood it...
Nov 18 18:27:01 <lardman|home> time to go, bbl
Nov 18 18:27:56 <hatebreeder> in example how i overclock this device? will it "eat" more power if i overclock?
Nov 18 18:28:09 <DocScrutinizer> it will eat CPU if you do
Nov 18 18:28:47 <DocScrutinizer> as in "dead device or acting up device (segfaults etc) after relatively short period of use"
Nov 18 18:29:20 <merlin1991> uh oh, I opened my n900 battery cover, and a small piece of metal came out
Nov 18 18:29:20 <DocScrutinizer> overclocking is absolutely deprecated and discouraged
Nov 18 18:29:54 <DocScrutinizer> merlin1991: N900 breeding? :-P
Nov 18 18:30:06 <merlin1991> dunno
Nov 18 18:30:36 <DocScrutinizer> what piece of metal?
Nov 18 18:30:43 <merlin1991> I'll make a pic
Nov 18 18:31:11 <SpeedEvil> merlin1991: SIM cover and microSD cover present?
Nov 18 18:32:14 <DocScrutinizer> lens cover spring comes to mind. and that crappy spring for stylus that ate up lcuk's stylus
Nov 18 18:33:21 <DocScrutinizer> stand spring
Nov 18 18:33:45 <DocScrutinizer> springs (plural)
Nov 18 18:34:25 <merlin1991> http://i54.tinypic.com/aniqyq.jpg
Nov 18 18:34:49 <SpeedEvil> that's the lens cover catch
Nov 18 18:34:50 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: ate up?
Nov 18 18:34:51 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: how
Nov 18 18:34:53 <DocScrutinizer> stand spring
Nov 18 18:34:58 <SpeedEvil> oh
Nov 18 18:35:03 <SpeedEvil> maybe not
Nov 18 18:35:31 <Turski> yea, that's the stand spring
Nov 18 18:36:00 <merlin1991> possible to fit in again, or broken for live?
Nov 18 18:36:01 <DocScrutinizer> the "middle" ne of those two
Nov 18 18:36:05 <SpeedEvil> Does anyone actually use the stand?
Nov 18 18:36:14 <Turski> SpeedEvil: yes
Nov 18 18:36:17 <DocScrutinizer> rarely
Nov 18 18:36:29 <Turski> merlin1991: maybe with good glue...
Nov 18 18:36:37 <Turski> SpeedEvil: i use it quite often
Nov 18 18:36:53 <merlin1991> freekin sloppy manufacturing
Nov 18 18:36:55 <DocScrutinizer> merlin1991: you *could* try to use cyanoacrylate to fix it in place
Nov 18 18:37:10 <DocScrutinizer> or get a new back cover, or simply ignore
Nov 18 18:37:43 <Turski> there's another spring left :)
Nov 18 18:37:43 <SpeedEvil> Or weld on new PP with a cool soldering iron
Nov 18 18:38:00 <DocScrutinizer> merlin1991: or you still have waranty covered, and get a replacement for free
Nov 18 18:38:16 <merlin1991> I think my warranty is over
Nov 18 18:38:22 <merlin1991> but what does it actually do?
Nov 18 18:38:30 <DocScrutinizer> does stand still work somehow?
Nov 18 18:38:45 <merlin1991> ah now i get it
Nov 18 18:38:47 <DocScrutinizer> I gues it does
Nov 18 18:38:56 <DocScrutinizer> so ignore it
Nov 18 18:39:41 <merlin1991> I think I'll fix it :D
Nov 18 18:40:33 <merlin1991> actually, naah
Nov 18 18:40:36 <merlin1991> I'll leave it :D
Nov 18 18:40:47 <DocScrutinizer> it's actually pretty hard to fix, as it's constantly under force. So if you glue it with cyano acrylate, you need some fixture to hold it *tight* for >60 min!
Nov 18 18:41:24 <ieatlint> lol, google maps just gave me bus instructions that include the priceless step of "Walk to Null"
Nov 18 18:41:33 <merlin1991> awesome
Nov 18 18:41:39 <joga> into the void you go then
Nov 18 18:41:52 <ieatlint> it apparently will take me 6 minutes to walk to null, and i have 8 minutes to do it
Nov 18 18:42:46 <merlin1991> ieatlint, best thing though is if you tell google to route you from china to japan
Nov 18 18:42:50 <DocScrutinizer> if you're late, you're doomed to linger on as a ghost forever
Nov 18 18:43:04 <merlin1991> take a close look @ step 42 :D
Nov 18 18:44:04 <ieatlint> merlin1991: hehe, yeah, they have that across the atlantic too
Nov 18 18:44:07 <ieatlint> used to say swim though
Nov 18 18:44:40 <merlin1991> anyone in here a mappero wizzard? I want to peload some maps but the inap mappreload is rather unintuitive to use :D
Nov 18 18:49:06 <merlin1991> hm how long does the warranty go after they replaced the phone? mine got replaced a few months ago
Nov 18 18:51:16 <DocScrutinizer> usually waranty doesn't extend (except for the part repaired)
Nov 18 18:51:20 <RST38h> Nikolai Pryanishnikov is bulshitting you.
Nov 18 18:51:42 <merlin1991> hm part repaired, I got a completely new one
Nov 18 18:51:44 <RST38h> Which is not surprising, really, given that he is Microsoft's top choose
Nov 18 18:51:46 <merlin1991> wonder if that counts xD
Nov 18 18:51:51 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Nov 18 18:51:53 <RST38h> s/choose/cheese
Nov 18 18:52:17 <merlin1991> then I'm out of the warranty time, though
Nov 18 18:52:20 <merlin1991> err
Nov 18 18:52:26 <merlin1991> s/though/doh/
Nov 18 18:52:31 <DocScrutinizer> it's still only for the part originally broken, and even this doesn't apply everywhere (all legislations)
Nov 18 18:53:40 <merlin1991> back then the emmc was broken, but they never told me it was, I went there "uh nothing works" and a month later I got a new one "uh we couldn't repair it, be happy with this new device"
Nov 18 18:53:58 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Nov 18 18:54:27 <DocScrutinizer> usually no warranty extension included
Nov 18 18:55:24 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: as far as i know warranty only extends by time phone spent in service
Nov 18 18:55:43 <DocScrutinizer> in EU though, you got 2 years warranty for defects that were caused by poor manufacturing
Nov 18 18:56:36 <merlin1991> yeah just found that out
Nov 18 18:56:44 <merlin1991> yay
Nov 18 18:56:52 <merlin1991> go nokia get me a new backcover :P
Nov 18 18:56:59 * slonopotamus votes for reset of warranty time to initial value on each repair
Nov 18 19:00:30 <slonopotamus> because otherwise vendors are not interested in _really_ fixing the problem
Nov 18 19:01:10 <slonopotamus> as with n900 usb connector. it broke? oh well, here you are a new mobo.
Nov 18 19:01:24 <slonopotamus> come back when it breaks again
Nov 18 19:01:28 <RST38h> well, the connector has been a real mess
Nov 18 19:01:42 <RST38h> cannot easily fix it with unprofessional labor
Nov 18 19:01:53 <slonopotamus> RST38h, the point is that nokia is _not_ fixing it
Nov 18 19:01:55 <RST38h> cheaper to let monkeys swap the whole thing
Nov 18 19:02:19 <slonopotamus> just replace mobos until warranty ends and n900 is eoled
Nov 18 19:02:24 <RST38h> slono: yep
Nov 18 19:03:21 <slonopotamus> causing warranty time to reset would require at least making sure it can survive whole warranty period
Nov 18 19:04:18 <slonopotamus> (though that might lead to reduction of warranty period :)
Nov 18 19:05:03 <RST38h> will make gadgets more expensive
Nov 18 19:05:04 <slonopotamus> i bet next device will have same usb connector :)
Nov 18 19:05:41 <slonopotamus> ...
Nov 18 19:06:20 <RST38h> actually, we have not tried it yet here, I think: compete in guessing how awful the nexxt device will be :)
Nov 18 19:06:22 <slonopotamus> it wasn't expensive to properly make usb connector
Nov 18 19:07:38 <slonopotamus> and i don't believe it wasn't stress-tested
Nov 18 19:09:02 <RST38h> well, I am sure it "was"
Nov 18 19:09:11 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Nov 18 19:09:27 <RST38h> i.e. someone checked the line "USB connector" at the stress test list
Nov 18 19:10:41 * RST38h asks the Tentacled One to reveal Himself to Nokia's top management and command them to bring back the 3.5" power jack
Nov 18 19:10:51 <RST38h> 3.5mm, sorry
Nov 18 19:11:16 <DocScrutinizer> to me it seems a lot of USB problems are due to improper soldering (component not flush with PCB, not enough solder applied, not all 4 posts soldered properly)
Nov 18 19:11:29 <RST38h> nah
Nov 18 19:11:49 <RST38h> Surface mounted component + the lever made by USB jack plugged into it
Nov 18 19:11:59 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Nov 18 19:12:03 <DocScrutinizer> but still
Nov 18 19:12:03 <RST38h> that is all that is required, manufacturing is not to blame here
Nov 18 19:12:32 <RST38h> At the end, you still end up tearing the PCB traces off the board, with your connector, the solder, etc
Nov 18 19:12:52 <DocScrutinizer> that happened amazingly seldom though
Nov 18 19:13:06 <DocScrutinizer> quite a number of "fatalities" were repairable
Nov 18 19:13:44 <ieatlint> RST38h: nokia n8 phone has the barrel power connector (assuming that's what you mean by the 3.5mm jack, although i think it's closer to 2mm)... the n9 may very well have it too
Nov 18 19:13:54 <DocScrutinizer> the device I disassembled had poor solder joints at usb posts
Nov 18 19:15:16 <RST38h> ieatlint: the one you are talking about is prbably 2.5mm jack
Nov 18 19:15:37 <RST38h> ieatlint: more fragile than the 3.5mm but still better than the goddamn microusb abomination
Nov 18 19:15:55 <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277344  bad luck
Nov 18 19:16:27 <ieatlint> ah
Nov 18 19:16:58 <ieatlint> that's right, i remember those pics now
Nov 18 19:17:22 <ieatlint> and how it appeared to just be solder holding on the usb connector there too
Nov 18 19:17:47 <DocScrutinizer> yes, same crap
Nov 18 19:22:47 <RST38h> not the final hw though
Nov 18 19:24:27 * slonopotamus adds #0 to his checklist for new device buying - check how connectors are held :)
Nov 18 19:24:51 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: I'd not hold my breath for major changes
Nov 18 19:25:23 <RST38h> slono: you are still buying that n9 though :)
Nov 18 19:25:31 <RST38h> admit it
Nov 18 19:25:54 <slonopotamus> last nokia thing i bought was 3110
Nov 18 19:26:39 <slonopotamus> n800 was a present on birthday, n900 was presented by nokia representative
Nov 18 19:27:14 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Nov 18 19:27:22 <RST38h> let us not dwell on how exactly you will get your hands on that n9 :)
Nov 18 19:27:57 <slonopotamus> before that i owned 3510 :)
Nov 18 19:28:02 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer, wut?
Nov 18 19:28:05 <DocScrutinizer> one thing's for sure. I'm not planning to spend money on that N9 right atm
Nov 18 19:29:26 <DocScrutinizer> capacitive ts is a nogo in my book
Nov 18 19:29:47 <DocScrutinizer> plus the resulting "comes without sylus" of course
Nov 18 19:30:04 <DocScrutinizer> stylus even
Nov 18 19:30:47 <slonopotamus> with a glass?
Nov 18 19:31:04 <jacekowski> i don't have problem with capacitive
Nov 18 19:31:09 <jacekowski> as long as apps are designed for it
Nov 18 19:31:13 <slonopotamus> what worries me - how much it is fall-proof
Nov 18 19:31:28 <jacekowski> slonopotamus: well, iphone is using glass
Nov 18 19:31:29 <RST38h> made of aluminum, isn't it?
Nov 18 19:31:33 <jacekowski> slonopotamus: and it can take quite a bit
Nov 18 19:31:57 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: meh, never seen a proper c-ts adapted app like e.g numpty physics
Nov 18 19:32:53 <DocScrutinizer> tbh the "apps designed for c-ts" are exactly what worries me about c-ts
Nov 18 19:33:10 <jacekowski> i'm evil
Nov 18 19:33:32 <jacekowski> i just called my sister to tell her "do you know that your father had an accident on motorway"
Nov 18 19:33:48 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: BS, iPhone is plastic
Nov 18 19:33:58 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: it's glass on front
Nov 18 19:34:05 <DocScrutinizer> uhuh
Nov 18 19:34:07 <slonopotamus> jacekowski, she answered 'no'?
Nov 18 19:35:01 <slonopotamus> iphone doesn't have kb, forget about it :P
Nov 18 19:35:05 <jacekowski> and at least now i'll have pictures of his car after accident
Nov 18 19:35:15 <johnsq> Hi
Nov 18 19:35:49 <slonopotamus> johnsq, hello, mister. how things go?
Nov 18 19:36:10 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: if you think it's glass, you'll not mind touching it with a 450°C solder iron tip, will you?
Nov 18 19:36:22 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: sure
Nov 18 19:36:22 <johnsq> slonopotamus: good, uwm finished, now a new project.
Nov 18 19:36:36 <slonopotamus> johnsq, link? :)
Nov 18 19:36:37 <DocScrutinizer> haha, so tell me about your findings
Nov 18 19:36:49 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: it's glass
Nov 18 19:36:53 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: it cracks like a glass
Nov 18 19:36:53 <RST38h> Doc: it may break
Nov 18 19:36:57 <DocScrutinizer> I know for sure iPhone 2 yeras ago had NO glass
Nov 18 19:37:00 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: it's resistant
Nov 18 19:37:01 <johnsq> slonopotamus: http://uwm.sourceforge.net/ released
Nov 18 19:37:12 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i know for sure that i couldn't scratch 3g with screwdriver
Nov 18 19:37:38 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: and i had less scratches on iphone screen than on n900
Nov 18 19:37:50 <slonopotamus> jacekowski, hmm... it definitely is not a glass then :)
Nov 18 19:38:07 <jacekowski> slonopotamus: why?
Nov 18 19:38:10 * ColdFyre is modding his n900 with a 4g chip
Nov 18 19:38:15 <DocScrutinizer> we did steel ball impact tests on iPhone ts vs gta03 ts, on OM, 2 years ago. This was no glass for sure
Nov 18 19:38:31 <slonopotamus> jacekowski, because glass can be scratched with a screw?
Nov 18 19:38:37 <pupnik> http://whereisben.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/compucamp.jpg  That is me in 1981 [ compucamp ]
Nov 18 19:38:40 <ColdFyre> i am adding the 4g so it will be 7g (3+4)
Nov 18 19:38:41 <jacekowski>  The iPhone screen is made of optical-quality, chemically treated glass — not polycarbonate plastic like the iPod's screen
Nov 18 19:38:46 <jacekowski> slonopotamus: nope
Nov 18 19:39:15 <DocScrutinizer> since when?
Nov 18 19:39:39 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: it's glass since always
Nov 18 19:39:59 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, wonder what we tested at OM then
Nov 18 19:40:02 <jacekowski> http://forums.ilounge.com/1277574-post4.html
Nov 18 19:40:08 <jacekowski> it cracks like a glass
Nov 18 19:41:29 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: even wikipedia says glass
Nov 18 19:41:44 <slonopotamus> (and ducks like a glass? :P )
Nov 18 19:41:47 <DocScrutinizer> even ice cracks like glass, this is a proof for exactly nothing
Nov 18 19:42:10 <luke-jr> jacekowski: it cracks like safetyglass, not glass
Nov 18 19:42:11 <DocScrutinizer> btw this does NOT look like glass
Nov 18 19:42:20 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
Nov 18 19:42:25 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: ++
Nov 18 19:42:30 <jacekowski> aminosilicate glass
Nov 18 19:42:43 <slonopotamus> btw
Nov 18 19:42:47 <jacekowski> aluminosilicate*
Nov 18 19:42:48 <DocScrutinizer> hahaha
Nov 18 19:43:06 <jacekowski> it's not a plastic for sure
Nov 18 19:43:19 <DocScrutinizer> well a bit of difference between amino and alumino
Nov 18 19:43:21 <slonopotamus> > 3 feet < that's why i asked about being fall-proof
Nov 18 19:43:24 <jacekowski> it's not typical window glass
Nov 18 19:43:42 <jacekowski> slonopotamus: i dropped it couple times and had no problems
Nov 18 19:43:46 <jacekowski> slonopotamus: it all depends how it falls
Nov 18 19:44:05 <slonopotamus> ...
Nov 18 19:44:11 <jacekowski> slonopotamus: if you drop it and it's plastic then plastic may pass shock to lcd behind it
Nov 18 19:44:16 <slonopotamus> down :P
Nov 18 19:44:32 <jacekowski> slonopotamus: you need a lot of bad luck
Nov 18 19:44:50 <jacekowski> slonopotamus: but that's why iphone has that metal frame around screen
Nov 18 19:45:03 <slonopotamus> jacekowski, guy from your link dropped it just from 3 feet
Nov 18 19:45:09 <jacekowski> slonopotamus: so it will absorb most of shock if you don't drop it straight flat
Nov 18 19:45:32 <jacekowski> bad luck
Nov 18 19:45:34 <jacekowski> stone
Nov 18 19:45:58 <slonopotamus> and you wanted a sofa?
Nov 18 19:46:07 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: also a quick googling suggests this aluminosilicate glass came new with iPhone4
Nov 18 19:49:07 <slonopotamus> w/e. moral: glass screens can break in terrible ways :)
Nov 18 19:51:16 <slonopotamus> and don't buy iphone, because if you do, it might fall
Nov 18 19:52:17 <RST38h> Just dont buy anything at all
Nov 18 19:53:25 <luke-jr> buy a diamond.
Nov 18 19:53:28 <luke-jr> they don't break easily
Nov 18 19:53:42 <slonopotamus> :D
Nov 18 19:53:43 <luke-jr> better yet. Nokia should use a diamond screen on N9
Nov 18 19:54:06 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, i start to suspect you're an optim st
Nov 18 19:54:10 <slonopotamus> *i
Nov 18 19:54:29 <luke-jr> prove it
Nov 18 19:55:10 <luke-jr> optimist = happy idiot
Nov 18 19:55:15 <luke-jr> pessimist = sad idiot
Nov 18 19:55:22 <RST38h> humanist = ?
Nov 18 19:55:28 <luke-jr> evil
Nov 18 19:55:33 <RST38h> masochist = ?
Nov 18 19:55:43 <luke-jr> evil
Nov 18 19:55:50 <RST38h> machinist = ?
Nov 18 19:56:09 <luke-jr> fun
Nov 18 19:56:19 <RST38h> speaking of the evil...
Nov 18 19:56:58 <slonopotamus> ...
Nov 18 19:57:26 <luke-jr> my baby needs to either stfu or be awake when I give her the bottle
Nov 18 19:58:05 <slonopotamus> (s)he doesn't care what you need.
Nov 18 19:58:06 <luke-jr> srsly, she cries a bit for a bottle. then when I go over there she's sound asleep
Nov 18 20:00:05 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, how's n900 usb connector? :) tilts?
Nov 18 20:00:41 <crashanddie_> I read that as "tits"
Nov 18 20:00:43 <luke-jr> same as always has been?
Nov 18 20:01:25 <mc_teo> hey
Nov 18 20:01:29 <luke-jr> NO U
Nov 18 20:01:35 <luke-jr> hay is for horses
Nov 18 20:01:45 <mc_teo> i have an idea for an application
Nov 18 20:02:02 <luke-jr> mc_teo: write it
Nov 18 20:02:04 <mc_teo> but i need part of it to run constantly in the background
Nov 18 20:02:28 <luke-jr> then we need to boycott it
Nov 18 20:02:52 <slonopotamus> battery drain, yep
Nov 18 20:02:56 <mc_teo> so like have a minimalistic server
Nov 18 20:03:12 <crashanddie_> mc_teo: daemonise it, named pipe, done
Nov 18 20:03:40 * DocScrutinizer coughs and wanders off for dinner
Nov 18 20:03:54 <mc_teo> but it only it only would only need to loop like every 15 mins
Nov 18 20:04:12 <luke-jr> yay for cron?
Nov 18 20:04:16 <crashanddie_> mc_teo: sleep(15000)
Nov 18 20:04:26 <crashanddie_> woah
Nov 18 20:04:27 <mc_teo> crashanddie: i was thinking of that, but how would i get it to restart every reboot
Nov 18 20:04:29 <crashanddie_> headache fail
Nov 18 20:04:37 <crashanddie_> mc_teo: service?
Nov 18 20:04:42 <crashanddie_> mc_teo: /etc/inittab?
Nov 18 20:04:46 <slonopotamus> crashanddie, your clock is broken
Nov 18 20:04:53 <crashanddie_> slonopotamus: it is
Nov 18 20:04:56 * luke-jr smacks crashanddie for messing with /etc/inittab
Nov 18 20:05:09 <crashanddie_> slonopotamus: 900?
Nov 18 20:05:22 <slonopotamus> crashanddie_, smth like that, yep
Nov 18 20:05:29 <GAN900> crashanddie_, more fail than that.
Nov 18 20:05:35 <slonopotamus> ms?
Nov 18 20:06:09 <slonopotamus> no, secs
Nov 18 20:06:27 <slonopotamus> crashanddie_, and don't read that as sex
Nov 18 20:06:56 <crashanddie_> I wouldn't
Nov 18 20:07:57 <alterego> GAN900: I'm selling out and submitting an app to Ovi ..
Nov 18 20:08:07 <alterego> to be fair, I've been working on it for about 3 months
Nov 18 20:08:11 <GAN900> alterego, which one?
Nov 18 20:08:17 <alterego> My GPS app
Nov 18 20:08:23 <GAN900> Ah, cool.
Nov 18 20:09:15 <alterego> Almost finished it now :)
Nov 18 20:09:41 <crashanddie_> luke-jr: what's wrong with playing with inittab?
Nov 18 20:09:44 <RST38h> zogggg
Nov 18 20:10:25 <trumee_> alterego, what does it do?
Nov 18 20:11:05 <slonopotamus> crashanddie_, evil unix demons won't be happy.
Nov 18 20:11:19 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie_: don't YOU play with MY inittab. That simple
Nov 18 20:11:37 <crashanddie_> well, inittab, chkconfig, whatev
Nov 18 20:12:28 <DocScrutinizer> on a more elaborate answer: inittab isn't manageable by whatever install mechanism
Nov 18 20:12:39 <alterego> trumee: it's basically just an application that lets you use the GPS in a way similar to hand held GPS' from the 90s
Nov 18 20:13:02 <alterego> It's got some cool features, just no mapping.
Nov 18 20:15:04 <trumee> alterego, cool
Nov 18 20:15:36 <alterego> I don't expect it to sell much, but it does look quite cool :D
Nov 18 20:19:49 <crashanddie_> DocScrutinizer: chkconfig foobar on
Nov 18 20:25:39 <mc_teo> so
Nov 18 20:25:48 <mc_teo> services is the way to go?
Nov 18 20:26:12 <crashanddie_> mc_teo: well, you've got two options
Nov 18 20:26:21 <crashanddie_> mc_teo: cron or daemon (service)
Nov 18 20:26:46 <crashanddie_> the cron is good because you only need a periodical hit (every 15 minutes), and that's exactly what cron was designed for
Nov 18 20:27:31 <mc_teo> but for anyone else to install it would need cron then too
Nov 18 20:27:35 <crashanddie_> but, if the services has a lot of startup overhead (building objects, starting sockets, etc), then a service would be more interesting
Nov 18 20:28:41 <mc_teo> well it just checks the gps for a bit
Nov 18 20:28:53 <mc_teo> like gets coordindates
Nov 18 20:29:11 <mc_teo> the a little bit of processing
Nov 18 20:30:16 <alterego> Urgh
Nov 18 20:30:31 <alterego> Sounds like a horrible app :P
Nov 18 20:30:56 <mc_teo> that depends on the processing
Nov 18 20:31:37 <mc_teo> check proximity to recorded coordinates, and runs a command based on them
Nov 18 20:31:58 <mc_teo> for example, if near school, put on silent
Nov 18 20:32:07 <mc_teo> if at home, turn off silent
Nov 18 20:32:25 <mc_teo> etc
Nov 18 20:35:44 <alterego> The latency will be quite bad then.
Nov 18 20:36:06 <mece> alterego, hello
Nov 18 20:36:21 <alterego> Hey mece
Nov 18 20:36:35 <alterego> You asked me something earlier, but I've forgotten what it was about ;)
Nov 18 20:36:41 <mece> me too
Nov 18 20:36:47 <mece> ywa righty
Nov 18 20:37:06 <mece> can one throw some qml ui stuff on op of a qwidget with stuff in it?
Nov 18 20:37:12 <alterego> Actually, you just ping'd me, and I pong'd back, but then went away ^.^
Nov 18 20:37:19 <alterego> Yes
Nov 18 20:37:33 <mece> alterego, that's sweet.
Nov 18 20:37:40 <alterego> You can render a QML viewport onto a widget, and then set a layout on the widget and have other widgets on that widget.
Nov 18 20:37:57 <mece> uhu..
Nov 18 20:38:28 <alterego> Yeah, it's prretty flexible, I've been working on mixing OpenGL, QML, and Qt.
Nov 18 20:38:35 <mece> cooky!
Nov 18 20:42:03 <mece> teehee coco
Nov 18 20:52:44 <NooBmonk3y> Has anyone got an example autobuilder rules file i can see please? :) (Still got a slight packaging issue!)
Nov 18 20:54:13 <djszapi> Which is the proper qstardict version for Fremantle ? -> I have tried this one on my N900, but it required a newer qt core that is installed by default: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/q/qstardict/qstardict_0.13.2-3fb_armel.deb
Nov 18 20:55:12 <djszapi> the diablo one is too old meanwhile :/
Nov 18 21:04:23 <djszapi> mmh, I could install, but it causes a segmentation fault if I try to run it.
Nov 18 21:07:00 <ieatlint> NooBmonk3y: automake you mean?
Nov 18 21:07:12 <NooBmonk3y> do i ? lol
Nov 18 21:07:15 <ieatlint> configure.ac
Nov 18 21:07:17 <NooBmonk3y> using autobuilder
Nov 18 21:07:21 <NooBmonk3y> and no i mean rules file
Nov 18 21:07:49 <ieatlint> like the debian rules file?
Nov 18 21:07:59 <ieatlint> https://github.com/ieatlint/MagRead/blob/master/debian/rules has an example of one
Nov 18 21:08:34 <ieatlint> which is taken almost verbatim from a wiki.maemo.org page
Nov 18 21:10:28 <NooBmonk3y> oo ty!!
Nov 18 21:11:04 <ieatlint> http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging_Qt_Creator_Apps_for_Maemo_Extras is the source for that
Nov 18 21:11:59 <ieatlint> packing deb files is almost as evil as automake
Nov 18 21:12:06 <pupnik> what's a fileservice to upload mp3s without hassle?
Nov 18 21:12:15 <pupnik> i need to share some music
Nov 18 21:12:31 <pupnik> (it's mine)
Nov 18 21:12:42 <WakiMiko> omploader
Nov 18 21:13:39 <pupnik> link?
Nov 18 21:14:48 <NooBmonk3y> ieatlint, the reason i ask is autobuilder keeps throwing me errors like this
Nov 18 21:14:48 <NooBmonk3y> cd builddir && qmake-qt4 PREFIX=/usr ../maecount.pro
Nov 18 21:15:06 <NooBmonk3y>  .          /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: qmake-qt4: command not found
Nov 18 21:15:18 <NooBmonk3y> (i put the dot it, lol sorry - didnt like the / in irc
Nov 18 21:15:35 <ieatlint> go take a look at that wiki page... saved my ass with it
Nov 18 21:15:51 <NooBmonk3y> okies :| - have spent 3 hours reading, wikis, blogs etc, but will keep trying!
Nov 18 21:16:28 <WakiMiko> pupnik: http://ompldr.org/
Nov 18 21:16:35 <ieatlint> yeah, took me more time than i want to admit to package that shit
Nov 18 21:16:36 <NooBmonk3y> meh
Nov 18 21:16:46 <NooBmonk3y> its the same as my line on that wiki page
Nov 18 21:16:47 <NooBmonk3y> cd builddir && qmake-qt4 PREFIX=/usr ../$(APPNAME).pro
Nov 18 21:17:03 <djszapi> where can I download dictionaries onto my N900 ?
Nov 18 21:17:25 <NooBmonk3y> https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/maecount_0.8.5/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt  :(
Nov 18 21:18:05 <ieatlint> perhaps it sets the environment differently
Nov 18 21:20:52 <Turski> NooBmonk3y: how about that: Make sure it has these on the "Build-Depends" line: debhelper (>= 5), libqt4-dev
Nov 18 21:21:02 <janemba> hello
Nov 18 21:21:12 <Turski> i don't know anything about debian/maemo packaging, but sounds like you are missing some tools
Nov 18 21:21:21 <janemba> I'd like to know if it exists a way to copy/paste a wpa2 key ?
Nov 18 21:22:23 <NooBmonk3y> ty turski will check
Nov 18 21:25:05 <janemba> or add a wifi connection on the n900 using pc suite ?
Nov 18 21:28:18 <janemba> ???
Nov 18 21:28:26 <janemba> someone alive ?
Nov 18 21:30:55 <NooBmonk3y> Turski, i want your babies!!!!!!!!!!!
Nov 18 21:30:59 <NooBmonk3y> maecount 0.8.5	Fremantle Extras-devel free i386	Build succeeded	System	2010-11-18 21:23 UTC
Nov 18 21:32:33 <Turski> good
Nov 18 21:33:46 <Turski> NooBmonk3y: so you didn't follow the wiki ;)
Nov 18 21:36:30 <NooBmonk3y> Turski, i've had so much help in the last 4/5 days.........that i'm fried
Nov 18 21:36:33 <NooBmonk3y> have changed every files
Nov 18 21:36:45 <NooBmonk3y> got it building, then nothing appeared in the apps menu
Nov 18 21:36:51 <NooBmonk3y> so changed it all again and got that error
Nov 18 21:36:58 <NooBmonk3y> now trying to see if the app is there this time!
Nov 18 21:37:04 <NooBmonk3y> 30+ builds and i'm exhausted!
Nov 18 21:38:10 <NooBmonk3y> and double yay!!!!!!!!!!
Nov 18 21:38:12 <NooBmonk3y> the icon is there!
Nov 18 21:38:14 <NooBmonk3y> omg
Nov 18 21:38:19 <NooBmonk3y> 4 days of hell, finally!
Nov 18 21:38:25 <NooBmonk3y> lol
Nov 18 21:38:27 <NooBmonk3y> doesnt load on click
Nov 18 21:38:31 <NooBmonk3y>  tap*
Nov 18 21:38:33 <NooBmonk3y> but oh well
Nov 18 21:38:38 <NooBmonk3y> just highlights
Nov 18 21:38:50 <NooBmonk3y> which makes me think the exec line is wrong?
Nov 18 21:41:21 <Turski> NooBmonk3y: try starting it from terminal
Nov 18 21:41:29 <Turski> i'm off to sleep now ->
Nov 18 21:41:46 <jacekowski> NooBmonk3y: i managed to get my first package done in under 10
Nov 18 21:42:00 <NooBmonk3y> jacekowski, 10 years?
Nov 18 21:42:07 <NooBmonk3y> Ty Turski
Nov 18 21:42:25 <NooBmonk3y> my python one built within a few mins and was fine, but the autobuilder is evil
Nov 18 21:43:03 <jacekowski> tries
Nov 18 21:43:21 <jacekowski> if you are talking about time, then it depends
Nov 18 21:43:35 <jacekowski> if we are talking about my autobuilder or maemo autobuilder
Nov 18 21:43:50 <NooBmonk3y> maemo
Nov 18 21:43:52 <jacekowski> mine is faster
Nov 18 21:44:12 <Turski> Arch linux packaging <3
Nov 18 21:44:12 <jacekowski> hmm, chrome compiled under 20 minutes
Nov 18 21:44:14 <NooBmonk3y> right, what should the Exec line in a .desktop file look like, as i assume that is my problem?
Nov 18 21:44:18 <NooBmonk3y> Exec=maecount
Nov 18 21:44:29 <jacekowski> NooBmonk3y: /opt/something/maecount
Nov 18 21:44:31 <jacekowski> NooBmonk3y: full path
Nov 18 21:44:45 <NooBmonk3y> jacekowski, the compiling doesnt matter its the getting everything right so it does compile!
Nov 18 21:45:04 <djszapi> How can I check which is PR version is on my n900 ?
Nov 18 21:45:13 <jacekowski> djszapi: it's in about
Nov 18 21:45:19 <jacekowski> djszapi: in settings
Nov 18 21:46:01 <djszapi> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_root_pr1-2_armel/libqt4-core/4.6.2~git20100401-0maemo1+0m5/ -> Where can I download it ?
Nov 18 21:46:24 <djszapi> I do not see any PR version in the about, rly.
Nov 18 21:46:40 <djszapi> Nokia N900 Maemo 5 Version: 2.2009-51-1
Nov 18 21:46:42 <djszapi> that is all.
Nov 18 21:47:18 <jacekowski> djszapi: don't
Nov 18 21:47:27 <jacekowski> djszapi: it's old package and it will break your phone
Nov 18 21:48:03 <djszapi> well...
Nov 18 21:48:07 <djszapi> qt 4.7 does not work...
Nov 18 21:48:20 <djszapi> qstardict causes segfault, gdb shows libQtGui...
Nov 18 21:48:21 <jacekowski> it does
Nov 18 21:48:28 <djszapi> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
Nov 18 21:48:30 <djszapi> it does ?
Nov 18 21:48:32 <djszapi> 0x406a91a8 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
Nov 18 21:48:32 <jacekowski> backtrace
Nov 18 21:48:35 <djszapi> 0x406a91a8:	ldr	r4, [r4, #24]
Nov 18 21:48:37 <djszapi> ^^^
Nov 18 21:48:41 <jacekowski> type bt
Nov 18 21:48:47 <djszapi> ^^^
Nov 18 21:48:53 <jacekowski> is that all?
Nov 18 21:49:11 <djszapi> yes
Nov 18 21:49:20 <djszapi> #0  0x406a91a8 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
Nov 18 21:49:21 <djszapi> #1  0x406a91a8 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
Nov 18 21:49:21 <djszapi> Backtrace stopped: previous frame identical to this frame (corrupt stack?)
Nov 18 21:49:35 <ShadowJK> hm, is there a -dbg package for qt..
Nov 18 21:49:35 <djszapi> no idea why qstardict causes segfault..
Nov 18 21:49:45 <jacekowski> problem is somewhere else
Nov 18 21:49:55 <djszapi> I as a user should not debug a very basic package like qtgui...
Nov 18 21:50:05 <ShadowJK> yes
Nov 18 21:50:08 <djszapi> otherwise they just should reimburse my money ;)
Nov 18 21:50:09 <ShadowJK> that's right
Nov 18 21:50:17 <jacekowski> djszapi: if you pass wrong parameters to it it will do strange things
Nov 18 21:50:28 <djszapi> I did not pass _any_ parameter.
Nov 18 21:50:34 <djszapi> qstardict, that is all.
Nov 18 21:50:40 <jacekowski> djszapi: but qstardict did
Nov 18 21:50:44 <jacekowski> something is wrong there
Nov 18 21:50:51 <djszapi> that is true...
Nov 18 21:51:04 <djszapi> but I would expect, if I install it from extra, it just should work.
Nov 18 21:51:14 <wmarone> worksforme
Nov 18 21:51:17 <wmarone> heh
Nov 18 21:51:23 <gustavo-ferreira> Hi all, i was wondering if someone in here could help me on get a title for a really good book on programmin in C on Linux? Although i use linux for about an year and half, i consider myself a newbie on this matter. I know how to program in C, but just the ANSI C. I'm right now with my eyes on this book: http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Programming-Unleashed-Kurt-Wall/dp/0672316072. Could someone suggest if this book is good enough or if
Nov 18 21:51:23 <gustavo-ferreira>  there is a better one? Just remember, it has to be a book for newbie. Thank you in advanced!
Nov 18 21:51:56 <djszapi> there are plenty of books outside.
Nov 18 21:52:09 <djszapi> jacekowski: does qstardict work for you ?
Nov 18 21:53:52 <djszapi> mstardict starts, but I cannot pass any dictionary to it.
Nov 18 21:53:53 <gustavo-ferreira> but if you could tell me one that would fit my needs, i really would appreciate it.
Nov 18 21:54:28 <djszapi> really a lot.
Nov 18 21:54:44 <djszapi> I have got locally 150+ C, C++ books on my PC
Nov 18 21:55:00 <djszapi> starting point: K&R, but it is completely off-topic by now
Nov 18 21:55:09 <DocScrutinizer> gustavo-ferreira: please tell djszapi it's absolutely not helpful when he answers such meaningless bullshit on a valid question. I'd tell him myself, but he considered it appropriate to take me on his ignore list, when I suggested some good lecture to him
Nov 18 21:56:31 <DocScrutinizer> btw he has no monopoly to define what's on topic in this channel. He doe NOT OWN this cheannel :-(
Nov 18 21:56:41 <DocScrutinizer> I'm temped to kickBAN him this time
Nov 18 21:57:31 <gustavo-ferreira> thank you for your understand DocScrutinizer
Nov 18 22:00:01 <DocScrutinizer> when somebody brags with 150+ books on his PC, but isn't able to develop any opinion about which of them are opod and which are not worth it... Meh, what does that tell about such a guy
Nov 18 22:00:30 <DocScrutinizer> makes me think he hasn't read a single one of those books
Nov 18 22:01:48 <DocScrutinizer> it's just funny a man with such a heap of documentation and instructions at the tips of his fingers has to come here and ask noob questions about basic things how to use ifconfig
Nov 18 22:03:35 <djszapi> that is odd the 'official' repository packages cause segfault.
Nov 18 22:04:35 <DocScrutinizer> gustavo-ferreira: try later, when there are less posers and more nice experienced hackers around
Nov 18 22:05:24 <gustavo-ferreira> ok, thank you anyway
Nov 18 22:15:42 <djszapi> seems mstardict can work, it would be nice to get a pronounciation nearby the results ;)
Nov 18 22:31:59 <iluminator101> whats the best media for n900 quick and easy lightweight simple playlight for on the go
Nov 18 22:32:15 <iluminator101> whats the best media player for n900 quick and easy lightweight simple play list for on the go
Nov 18 22:35:19 <johnsq> iluminator101: you can try http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36068
Nov 18 22:36:32 <iluminator101> media player included in n900 is not simple enough i think
Nov 18 22:38:02 <crashanddie_> "A court in the northwestern German city of Muenster has banned a man from tattooing his pony with the logo of British rock band the Rolling Stones."
Nov 18 22:38:42 <crashanddie_> "An Idaho judge has set bond at $100,000 for a Boise woman police say posed as a physician and duped at least two other women into having their breasts examined by her at Boise-area nightclubs.
Nov 18 22:39:01 <DocScrutinizer> unjustified cruelty against animals
Nov 18 22:40:16 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie_: you're bored?
Nov 18 22:40:34 <crashanddie_> a bit, why?
Nov 18 22:40:42 <DocScrutinizer> looks like
Nov 18 22:41:20 <DocScrutinizer> you should kickban a bit evry now and then. Just you missed another great opportunity for that
Nov 18 22:41:22 <crashanddie_> I just flamed one of my friends who thinks he can get an infosec job as I used to just because he knows a bit of python and knows to crack a laptop
Nov 18 22:41:39 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Nov 18 22:41:46 <crashanddie_> kb who?
Nov 18 22:41:50 <iluminator101> whats the best media player for n900 quick and easy lightweight simple play list for on the go
Nov 18 22:41:52 <DocScrutinizer> ^^^
Nov 18 22:42:02 <DocScrutinizer> just scrollback
Nov 18 22:42:16 <DocScrutinizer> 40 lines
Nov 18 22:43:02 <crashanddie_> dj polish?
Nov 18 22:44:26 <DocScrutinizer> xactly
Nov 18 22:45:35 <crashanddie_> I saw this front page question on slashdot
Nov 18 22:45:40 <crashanddie_> the guy mentionned the CAP theorem
Nov 18 22:46:01 <crashanddie_> stating that no distributed computing system can provide consistency, availability and partition tolerance at the same time
Nov 18 22:46:06 <crashanddie_> 2 at best, but never 3
Nov 18 22:46:37 <crashanddie_> thing is, our voip server
Nov 18 22:46:41 <crashanddie_> it's distributed
Nov 18 22:46:44 <crashanddie_> and I think it can
Nov 18 22:46:51 <DocScrutinizer> on 3 machines :-P
Nov 18 22:47:43 <DocScrutinizer> arguable if a VoIP server meets the definition of distributed computing though
Nov 18 22:47:57 <crashanddie_> oh it does
Nov 18 22:48:11 <crashanddie_> it's not just a voip server :)
Nov 18 22:48:25 <crashanddie_> it's a call centre management server
Nov 18 22:49:22 <DocScrutinizer> you'd think that's a happy crowd of little processes doing their little thingies autistic and ignorant of each other
Nov 18 22:49:42 <crashanddie_> there's about a dozen processes per project, one voip process can handle about 600 calls on a quad core CPU
Nov 18 22:50:37 <crashanddie_> for our main project, we have 12 servers distributed across europe, it's all under the same instance
Nov 18 22:50:54 <Termana> good morning
Nov 18 22:51:00 <crashanddie_> morning Termana
Nov 18 22:51:05 <DocScrutinizer> I think the CAP (never heard of it) is more about distributed numbercrunching and inmidst-process repartitioning
Nov 18 22:52:13 <DocScrutinizer> Termana: I don't know what to say, coz when I did you'd bash me with UGT
Nov 18 22:52:54 <DocScrutinizer> maybe "lo OZ"
Nov 18 22:53:37 * DocScrutinizer yawns
Nov 18 22:54:08 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: or you could just wait 13 minutes and then say good morning to me
Nov 18 22:54:27 <DocScrutinizer> MEH, that's the point
Nov 18 22:55:35 <DocScrutinizer> honestly just cops say "good morning" when you're heading home from your pub, drunk, in the darkest night
Nov 18 22:56:01 <Termana> Sounds like you have some experience with that?
Nov 18 22:56:03 <Termana> :p
Nov 18 22:56:13 <DocScrutinizer> with cops - yes
Nov 18 22:56:43 <Gh0sty> goodevening
Nov 18 22:56:50 <Gh0sty> anyone experience with this:
Nov 18 22:56:53 <Gh0sty> http://shop.brando.com/mini-usb-to-micro-usb-adapter-w-on-off-switch_p4160c6d1.html
Nov 18 22:57:11 <DocScrutinizer> even the TV mag has "tomorrow" starting at 5 AM
Nov 18 22:57:15 <Gh0sty> wondering if it would have the short circuit on the datalines so I can charge from a dumb charger :/
Nov 18 22:58:27 <DocScrutinizer> it won't
Nov 18 22:59:07 <DocScrutinizer> or maybe it does?
Nov 18 22:59:50 <Gh0sty> on maemo.org forums it looks like it could work ...
Nov 18 23:00:16 <Gh0sty> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38230&highlight=n900+battery&page=11
Nov 18 23:03:05 <DocScrutinizer> ok then. It seems it actually switches the D+- short
Nov 18 23:03:24 <DocScrutinizer> smart idea indeed
Nov 18 23:03:32 <Gh0sty> *thinking* ...
Nov 18 23:03:40 <Gh0sty> should I order full cables or just the connectors :p
Nov 18 23:04:20 <DocScrutinizer> consider adaptors make for an even longer lever breaking USB receptacle more easily
Nov 18 23:05:06 <DocScrutinizer> I'm searching for a reduced length micro-plug since months
Nov 18 23:05:13 <MohammadAG> CA-101D DocScrutinizer
Nov 18 23:05:15 <ColdFyre> umm is it me or does removing the boot logo from the n900 make it boot faster?
Nov 18 23:05:17 <Gh0sty> reduced length? :/
Nov 18 23:05:31 <MohammadAG> Nokia cable, it's very short, my classmate gave it to me :)
Nov 18 23:05:40 <Gh0sty> I already wondered if those connectors dont exist angeled
Nov 18 23:05:47 <Gh0sty> right or left angle ...
Nov 18 23:05:59 <DocScrutinizer> for mini there are
Nov 18 23:06:01 <MohammadAG> saw one, it was miniUSB though
Nov 18 23:06:14 <jacekowski> heh
Nov 18 23:06:15 <MohammadAG> i even have one from motorola
Nov 18 23:06:26 <jacekowski> i'm just making uart decoder for my scope
Nov 18 23:07:17 <jacekowski> and then i realised that i'm not sure where is my copy of programmers manual
Nov 18 23:07:35 <jacekowski> and while looking at pico website i found that beta version of new software has uart support
Nov 18 23:07:44 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: U HAX0R
Nov 18 23:08:05 <crashanddie_> MohammadAG: http://www.elighcash.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Carl-Of-Duty-Black-Cops.jpeg
Nov 18 23:08:09 <crashanddie_> ^^^ so much win
Nov 18 23:08:52 <jacekowski> i still have to write it though
Nov 18 23:09:07 <jacekowski> as i was hoping to use AWG to send uart data
Nov 18 23:09:11 <MohammadAG> LOL crashanddie
Nov 18 23:09:13 <jacekowski> hmm, nvm
Nov 18 23:09:20 <jacekowski> that's not going to work at speeds i need
Nov 18 23:10:37 <DocScrutinizer> don't say that! I've seen AWG being used for TV composite and other things, and ADSL is using telephone for freq up to MHz
Nov 18 23:12:28 <DocScrutinizer> if you need proper digital levels though, that's another playground
Nov 18 23:13:33 <nidO> hmm, looking forward to giving a dell duo a whirl.
Nov 18 23:13:36 <SpeedEvil> ADSL uses a frequency up to a few MHz.
Nov 18 23:13:38 <SpeedEvil> But.
Nov 18 23:13:59 <SpeedEvil> At those frequencies, attenuations run into many tens of dB
Nov 18 23:14:01 <DocScrutinizer> btw how comes we both think of AWG as twisted pair unshielded? it's actually American Wire Gauge
Nov 18 23:14:10 <SpeedEvil> I don't.
Nov 18 23:14:20 <SpeedEvil> I was assuming that was what you were meaning.
Nov 18 23:15:15 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: pico 100kHz is barely acceptable as square at 30kHz
Nov 18 23:15:52 <jacekowski> by AWG i meant arbitrary waveform generator
Nov 18 23:18:56 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
Nov 18 23:24:38 <Dassu> I'm gonna see on the flipsyde
Nov 18 23:40:30 <gustavo-ferreira> someone clear me out, maemo and moblin merged in one OS, there is MeeGo, so, does that means that now all attention are moving to MeeGo? i heard that MeeGo won't be supported for N900.
Nov 18 23:41:02 <DocScrutinizer> meego won't officially be supported by Nokia for N900
Nov 18 23:41:30 <DocScrutinizer> there's a Nokia half-assed supported community effort for meego on N900
Nov 18 23:42:37 <DocScrutinizer> enxt device (presumably N9) will have something caled meego HE (I think hybrid edition) aka harmattan, which is basicaly a bastardized maemo with a meego label on the box
Nov 18 23:43:00 <gustavo-ferreira> So, nokia will stop their progress on maemo? Because, as far as i know, they won't support meego for n900, but they will support it on "next tablet" isn't it?
Nov 18 23:43:30 <DocScrutinizer> maemo is EOL, though not dead yet
Nov 18 23:43:40 <gustavo-ferreira> ohh, ok that was what i was looking for
Nov 18 23:44:09 <DocScrutinizer> in my book there are several years of happy living on maemo
Nov 18 23:45:08 <DocScrutinizer> and there's also something for N900 called meego which will never be on par with neither maemo nor meego proper
Nov 18 23:49:42 <gustavo-ferreira> well, i didn't test meego on my n900, but what i see/read is that meego is really primitive right now for n900, do you think i should keep maemo even when meego become much better then it is now?
Nov 18 23:49:45 <ColdFyre> meego? is that like windows?
Nov 18 23:50:06 <gustavo-ferreira> i think it is much more link maemo than windows mobile
Nov 18 23:50:15 <gustavo-ferreira> like*
Nov 18 23:50:31 <ColdFyre> is it web scale?
Nov 18 23:51:55 <DocScrutinizer> *when* meego become much better then it is now, then why not consider switching. But honestly I don't see it on par with maemo for quite some time, and maybe never for N900
Nov 18 23:53:24 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: what do you think of....
Nov 18 23:53:27 <Termana> SHR ON N900
Nov 18 23:53:29 <ColdFyre> i used android on freerunner as a daily phone for a year - i'm not bashing aof, but not sure it could be worse than that combination
Nov 18 23:53:31 <Termana> !!!11
Nov 18 23:53:46 <gustavo-ferreira> ColdFyre: i know just a little about this mobile OS, but as far as i know it is meant to be web scale, but right now, i think it is to primitive... but on #meego they should clear you.
Nov 18 23:55:10 <DocScrutinizer> ColdFyre: "I" built FreeRunner to use it with whatever OS you like - your fault if that's been Andridiot for you
Nov 18 23:56:24 <ColdFyre> DocScrutinizer:  i know, i'm saying aof was buggy, i enjoyed the experience with the FR though
Nov 18 23:56:47 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: it was a serious question, btw - i want to know what your thoughts are on SHR on the N900?
Nov 18 23:57:01 * DocScrutinizer shrugs
Nov 18 23:57:13 <DocScrutinizer> I'm supporting the guys as much as I can
Nov 18 23:57:59 <DocScrutinizer> SHR was my FreeRunner OS of choice though, not for N900
Nov 18 23:58:38 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: so if MeeGo doesn't turn out too good on the N900 you plan to sit on Maemo for another 4 years or so? :p
Nov 18 23:58:52 <DocScrutinizer> yes, exactly
Nov 18 23:59:04 <MohammadAG> Termana, I'm on the same boat
Nov 18 23:59:22 <DocScrutinizer> and why not? I'm not too noobish to get new kernels
Nov 18 23:59:23 <Termana> MohammadAG, sticking with Maemo if MeeGo turns sour?
Nov 18 23:59:31 <MohammadAG> yes
Nov 19 00:00:09 <MohammadAG> i'd rather port 2.6.37 than move to meego in its current state
Nov 19 00:00:16 <DocScrutinizer> in two or three years some proper PIM with call-UI might turn up for maemo
Nov 19 00:00:35 <DocScrutinizer> replacing all the blobbed crap of Nokia
Nov 19 00:00:46 <MohammadAG> indeed
Nov 19 00:01:05 <MohammadAG> btw, current phone UI has a background but it's disabled for some reason
Nov 19 00:02:43 <DocScrutinizer> maemo kernel is completely open, so what's pissing my boots when staying with maemo for how long I like to?
Nov 19 00:03:41 <DocScrutinizer> ""boohohohooooo, no flash27.8!!"" ? NAH!
Nov 19 00:04:55 <DocScrutinizer> I *might* go havoc if Nokia keeps CB-API closed for any longer
Nov 19 00:05:27 <DocScrutinizer> I mean, a GSM phone without cell broadcast, C'MON!!
Nov 19 00:06:59 * DocScrutinizer feels like birth of next project baby
Nov 19 00:08:03 <DocScrutinizer> guess I'll need massive support from jacekowski and people like Dieter Spahr and laf0rge
Nov 19 00:18:14 <DocScrutinizer> the BB5 RAPUYAMA *for sure* knows how to CB, it's used in several other Nokia phones as well afaik
Nov 19 00:20:33 * DocScrutinizer wonders how much it takes to make Nokia throw over a few compiler switches and build a proper cmt FW version that supports all the stuff a proper *featurephone* can do since 2005
Nov 19 00:21:31 <DocScrutinizer> starhash-enabler PFFFFTT what a BS (I may say this!)
Nov 19 00:23:10 <DocScrutinizer> maybe cmt already knows how to do all this, incl CB, and we only need to bribe some Nokia guy with a few beers once again, to tell us the magic URL where we can find how to talk to rapuyama's cell broadcast interface
Nov 19 00:23:49 * SpeedEvil ponders an opensource CMT.
Nov 19 00:23:51 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Nov 19 00:24:10 <DocScrutinizer> sighing will be all you can do about it
Nov 19 00:24:37 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Nov 19 00:25:18 <DocScrutinizer> but RE and patching is in vicinity
Nov 19 00:25:30 <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
Nov 19 00:25:41 <DocScrutinizer> don't you agree?
Nov 19 00:25:51 <DocScrutinizer> we know it's a ARM
Nov 19 00:25:53 <SpeedEvil> What I'm annoyed at the moment is why I get random discos from 3g
Nov 19 00:26:12 <SpeedEvil> while completely static, with an active connection
Nov 19 00:26:14 <DocScrutinizer> we got several other phones (58000?) using BB5 as well
Nov 19 00:26:30 <DocScrutinizer> eeeew
Nov 19 00:27:08 <DocScrutinizer> someof those other phones may even have a proper comprehensive AT interface
Nov 19 00:27:41 <DocScrutinizer> we can disassemble cmt fw, jacekowski already did
Nov 19 00:27:47 <SpeedEvil> but can you flahs
Nov 19 00:27:56 <DocScrutinizer> that's a good question
Nov 19 00:28:28 <DocScrutinizer> I'd think yes, with proper jig and jtag
Nov 19 00:28:45 <SpeedEvil> JTAG and jig is one thing, in phone is another.
Nov 19 00:28:55 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Nov 19 00:29:11 <SpeedEvil> set xdata time
Nov 19 00:29:14 <DocScrutinizer> even jtag may fail, if they locked it up as well with SHA
Nov 19 00:29:15 <SpeedEvil> set timefmt "%s"
Nov 19 00:29:17 <SpeedEvil> argh
Nov 19 00:29:21 <johnsu01> So, my return key often stops working in the terminal, so I have to use C-m -- this seems to happen after ssh sessions
Nov 19 00:29:40 <johnsu01> any ideas why that might be?
Nov 19 00:30:22 <johnsu01> I'm using screen in the ssh session, and also setting TERM sometimes, but return stays broken after I disconnect
Nov 19 00:30:22 <DocScrutinizer> there's something odd with return key (vs NK-Enter)
Nov 19 00:30:55 <DocScrutinizer> NUM-lock?
Nov 19 00:30:59 <johnsu01> hm, well, reset fixes it
Nov 19 00:31:57 <DocScrutinizer> you might want to try the return key fix, as described in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Nov 19 00:33:00 <johnsu01> interesting
Nov 19 00:35:06 <DocScrutinizer> johnsu01: also I remember a funny thing when trying suspend-to-ram on N810: you mustn't do this by just firing the suspend cmd by entering it pushing the return key, it locks up as you never can release it fast enough. A "sleep 5; suspend <return>" though did the trick. Dunno how you disconnect, but meybe it's similar a problem
Nov 19 00:36:55 <johnsu01> hm, I usually disconnect with C-d
Nov 19 00:37:05 <johnsu01> or the disconnection happens because I change networks
Nov 19 00:37:13 <DocScrutinizer> then that's not it :-D
Nov 19 01:18:10 <Lantizia> Can anyone tell me what the difference is meant to be between USA and Global or UK and Global firmwares?
Nov 19 01:19:18 <DocScrutinizer> different smell
Nov 19 01:19:26 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: we can flash without a jig
Nov 19 01:19:32 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: we can't sign it
Nov 19 01:19:43 <DocScrutinizer> that's what I meant
Nov 19 01:20:01 <Lantizia> Already how are the smells different? :D
Nov 19 01:20:17 <DocScrutinizer> I know we can flash signed cmt fw via main system, aka NOLO
Nov 19 01:20:17 <Lantizia> I get the idea of a Vodaphone UK firmware... fucked around by vodaphone
Nov 19 01:20:22 <SpeedEvil> Do you mean can't flash without a jig?
Nov 19 01:20:48 <Lantizia> how is the content different?
Nov 19 01:20:56 <DocScrutinizer> I hoped via jtag we can flash unsigned fw
Nov 19 01:21:47 <DocScrutinizer> M-bus, F-bus, whatever
Nov 19 01:21:55 <jacekowski> we can flash unsigned firmware
Nov 19 01:22:02 <jacekowski> it's just not going to run
Nov 19 01:22:07 <DocScrutinizer> hahaha
Nov 19 01:22:30 <SpeedEvil> :)
Nov 19 01:22:43 <jacekowski> and it should be safe to do so
Nov 19 01:22:53 <SpeedEvil> What verifies the signature?
Nov 19 01:22:59 <jacekowski> as it looks like flashing in rapuyama is done via rapuyama bootloader as well
Nov 19 01:23:03 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: processor
Nov 19 01:23:32 <DocScrutinizer> question to Radio Erewan: "how fast Mercedes can drive around corner?" Answer from Radio Erewan: "190km/h, but only one time"
Nov 19 01:23:59 <SpeedEvil> So it's cryptographically signed, and you'd have to find a weakness in the bootloader, which we don't have object code for?
Nov 19 01:24:26 <SpeedEvil> I don't suppose you know the signing digest algorithm?
Nov 19 01:24:34 <jacekowski> we do know
Nov 19 01:24:43 <jacekowski> we know how to sign it
Nov 19 01:24:53 <SpeedEvil> I mean for CMT
Nov 19 01:24:54 <jacekowski> we don't have certs to sign it
Nov 19 01:24:56 <jacekowski> yes
Nov 19 01:24:57 <SpeedEvil> ah
Nov 19 01:25:00 <jacekowski> it's same as for main cpu
Nov 19 01:25:30 <jacekowski> but as far as i know
Nov 19 01:25:43 <jacekowski> and was able to understand with limited amount of information
Nov 19 01:25:49 <DocScrutinizer> how many bits is the key
Nov 19 01:25:50 <DocScrutinizer> ?
Nov 19 01:25:54 <jacekowski> trustzone/m-shield is pretty unhackable
Nov 19 01:25:56 <jacekowski> 2048 iirc
Nov 19 01:26:01 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Nov 19 01:26:07 <SpeedEvil> RSA?
Nov 19 01:26:10 <jacekowski> yep
Nov 19 01:27:35 <jacekowski> thing is that if it's correctly set up
Nov 19 01:27:50 <DocScrutinizer> how much of a complexity reduction is it when we own 10 or 20 valid signatures?
Nov 19 01:27:51 <jacekowski> then even if you exploit something
Nov 19 01:28:12 <jacekowski> you can't write to executable parts of memory
Nov 19 01:28:18 <jacekowski> or execute writable parts
Nov 19 01:28:24 <SpeedEvil> yeah.
Nov 19 01:28:27 <DocScrutinizer> hah
Nov 19 01:28:28 <SpeedEvil> plot ['2009 Oct 24':] [73:96] "weighto" using 1:4 with lines lw 2 title "Daily weights","weighto" using 1:6 with lines lw 3 title "Weekly moving average",fast(x) title sprintf("Rate=%.2fKg/week",week/slopefast),slow(x) title sprintf("Rate=%.2fKg/week",week/slopeslow),92 title "BMI 30",76.5 title "BMI 25/76.5Kg due ".strftime("%d %b %Y",originslow-(76*slopeslow))
Nov 19 01:28:29 <SpeedEvil> argh
Nov 19 01:28:40 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: not enough
Nov 19 01:28:57 <SpeedEvil> Quantum computers!
Nov 19 01:28:58 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: and it's using ECC
Nov 19 01:29:01 <DocScrutinizer> yeah 2048 is pretty tough
Nov 19 01:29:09 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: there no way to crack it that way
Nov 19 01:29:29 <jacekowski> but there is part of nolo code that i had no time to look into
Nov 19 01:29:38 <jacekowski> which is part that is flashing rapuyama
Nov 19 01:31:37 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: how's that key flashed to BB5?
Nov 19 01:37:49 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: please suggest a good toolchain for RE of NOLO and CMT
Nov 19 01:41:48 <jacekowski> IDA pro
Nov 19 01:42:01 <DocScrutinizer> sounds like redmond
Nov 19 01:42:10 <jacekowski> not really
Nov 19 01:42:14 <jacekowski> it's dutch
Nov 19 01:42:19 <jacekowski> i think
Nov 19 01:42:23 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
Nov 19 01:42:32 <jacekowski> belgium
Nov 19 01:42:34 <DocScrutinizer> still needs the W thing
Nov 19 01:42:41 <jacekowski> nope
Nov 19 01:42:47 <DocScrutinizer> nope? :-))
Nov 19 01:42:49 <jacekowski> runs on L thing as well
Nov 19 01:43:08 <DocScrutinizer> great, now I only need a few k$ I guess
Nov 19 01:43:10 <jacekowski> latest torrent version ( 5.5 ) via wine
Nov 19 01:43:20 <DocScrutinizer> hahaha
Nov 19 01:43:26 <jacekowski> or 6.0 native
Nov 19 01:43:28 <DocScrutinizer> good point
Nov 19 01:44:53 * DocScrutinizer checks what torrent client he has at hand on this box
Nov 19 01:46:21 <DocScrutinizer> wine, wow. Seems I've not touched that since 5 years now
Nov 19 01:49:05 <kwtm> Hi! Is there a "screen" utility for maemo? I want to be able to detach my shell session and close the terminal window, then later open another terminal and reattach to the session.
Nov 19 01:49:34 <SpeedEvil> apt-get install screen
Nov 19 01:50:38 <kwtm> SpeedEvil: Really? I can't seem to find it in the list but will try again anyway as you suggest. Is it in extras-devel?
Nov 19 01:51:01 <SpeedEvil> tools
Nov 19 01:51:03 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/packages/view/screen/
Nov 19 01:52:02 <kwtm> tools? That's a new repository to me. Is it to be treated with the same precautions as extras-devel (as in, if it crashes, the people in this IRC channel will have no sympathy for me)?
Nov 19 01:54:09 <DocScrutinizer> we will have all the sympathy with you, but that doesn't mean you can blindly trust tools :-)
Nov 19 01:54:46 <DocScrutinizer> tools isn't meant for N900, but for SB, as I understand it
Nov 19 01:55:01 <DocScrutinizer> using it on N900 is just a side effect
Nov 19 01:55:45 <SpeedEvil> For example, you can install build-essentials
Nov 19 01:56:02 <SpeedEvil> But it uses most space in / - as it's not optified.
Nov 19 01:59:45 <kwtm> Ah, I see.  What is "SB"?  I guess I'll try installing "screen" and see how much space it takes up.  I don't suppose there's a vetting process for the tools repository, as in "if people don't say it works well, you have to put this in the tools-beta repository" or something similar?
Nov 19 02:01:40 <DocScrutinizer> SB = scratchbox (x86 development environment), no vetting
Nov 19 02:01:53 <lolloo> hellooo0oo
Nov 19 02:02:13 <lolloo> how do I see services runing on my N900 please?
Nov 19 02:02:29 <lolloo> what command shall I type in xterm?
Nov 19 02:02:30 <DocScrutinizer> with a good magnifying glass?
Nov 19 02:03:11 <lolloo> hehehe
Nov 19 02:03:51 <DocScrutinizer> try ps or netstat or ls /etc/init.d or top or... what was the question?
Nov 19 02:04:06 <lolloo> hehehe
Nov 19 02:04:24 <lolloo> I need to see the services runing on my N900.
Nov 19 02:04:43 <DocScrutinizer> define see, define service, define running
Nov 19 02:04:57 <lolloo> sorry
Nov 19 02:05:47 <lolloo> But no problem, I thinks ps command works. I will google for it, thanks DocScrutinizer
Nov 19 02:06:07 <DocScrutinizer> yw, though I doubt I could help
Nov 19 02:06:53 <kwtm> lolloo: I suggest 'ps -ef | less' or 'ps -ef | grep <something>'
Nov 19 02:06:54 <lolloo> wow so many services runing in background
Nov 19 02:07:03 <kwtm> Just 'ps' seems to list very little, but 'ps -ef' lists too much.
Nov 19 02:07:15 <lolloo> eats up alot of rams
Nov 19 02:07:19 <kwtm> DocScrutinizer: Thanks for info on SB. Will check out screen.
Nov 19 02:07:31 <DocScrutinizer> look, a question like "I want to make sure my sshd service is activated and ready to accept connections" is easier to answer than your very general question
Nov 19 02:07:50 <internetishard> If someone called multiple times ( Jake (4) ), how do you tell when the calls occured? I'd like to see date/time or something
Nov 19 02:08:12 <lolloo> cool, thanks
Nov 19 02:10:51 <DocScrutinizer51> internetishard: in my call history every call is logged on its own
Nov 19 02:11:10 <internetishard> hmm, any pluggin?
Nov 19 02:11:24 <internetishard> well what does it mean for a missed call to have [Name] (#)
Nov 19 02:11:48 <DocScrutinizer51> not afaik. the extended phone log seems a separate app
Nov 19 02:12:32 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm, maybe consequtive calls are concatenated
Nov 19 02:15:23 <internetishard> ah, maybe i should get that app
Nov 19 02:15:24 <internetishard> then
Nov 19 02:17:39 <lolloo> what app?
Nov 19 02:17:49 <internetishard> I'm looking up what DocScrutinizer said
Nov 19 02:17:55 <lolloo> phone log
Nov 19 02:18:06 <lolloo> awesome I will try it too
Nov 19 02:22:16 <DocScrutinizer51> extended call log
Nov 19 02:22:56 <internetishard> gotted it... any sick apps you recommend off the top of your head since I'm installing this awhile DocScrutinizer?
Nov 19 02:23:31 <DocScrutinizer51> load applet, simple brightness applet
Nov 19 02:23:51 <DocScrutinizer51> modified hildon desktop
Nov 19 02:25:16 <DocScrutinizer51> xchat
Nov 19 02:25:22 <DocScrutinizer51> flashlight
Nov 19 02:25:36 <internetishard> you use irssi?
Nov 19 02:26:22 <DocScrutinizer51> would I suggest xchat then?
Nov 19 02:27:16 <internetishard> Guess not, I catch your drift
Nov 19 02:27:33 <internetishard> Hell, I use pidgin on desktops for IRC....... Yeah I know.
Nov 19 02:46:47 <mykhal> i just bought a nokia n900 from a friend. i don't know much about the phone, but i see it takes 2 sim cards. i have one, but that card expired a few months ago. is there a good forum to read about the n900 ?
Nov 19 02:48:59 <lolloo> yes
Nov 19 02:49:06 <lolloo> go to maemo talk forums
Nov 19 02:49:39 <mykhal> url??
Nov 19 02:49:58 <lolloo> google: maemo talk
Nov 19 02:50:29 <mykhal> thanx
Nov 19 02:50:52 <lolloo> http://talk.maemo.org/
Nov 19 02:51:06 <mykhal> he told me that i can make calls from this phone for free. is that true?
Nov 19 02:51:08 <lolloo> awesome place and the best for N900
Nov 19 02:51:15 <lolloo> hehehe
Nov 19 02:51:18 <lolloo> I wish
Nov 19 02:52:02 <mykhal> said that if i got a sim card, i could connect to wifi and make skype calls
Nov 19 02:52:48 <toresbe> you don't need a SIM card to use Skype.
Nov 19 02:53:00 * lolloo agrees
Nov 19 02:54:32 <mykhal> i wish he had the users manual to read. does the phone come with one installed?
Nov 19 02:54:33 <lolloo> DocScrutinizer where can I find modified hildon desktop please?
Nov 19 02:55:11 <lolloo> N900 is geeks dream come true.
Nov 19 02:55:24 <lolloo> it's all about linux
Nov 19 02:56:40 <DocScrutinizer51> mykhal: yes there is a user manual somewhere on Documents
Nov 19 02:57:01 <DocScrutinizer51> and no you can't use 2 SIM cards
Nov 19 02:57:06 <mykhal> whoa...so you're saying that i can use skype's $2.99 a month/unlimited calls to cells and landlines without having a sim card???
Nov 19 02:57:15 <lolloo> yes
Nov 19 02:57:45 <DocScrutinizer51> as long as you got access to internet via 2!*"
Nov 19 02:57:58 <DocScrutinizer51> wlan
Nov 19 02:58:06 <mykhal> to use the internet i guess i do need a valid card though, correct?
Nov 19 02:58:26 <DocScrutinizer51> for wlan?
Nov 19 02:58:31 <mykhal> no
Nov 19 02:59:03 <DocScrutinizer51> wlan usually isn't related to  cards
Nov 19 02:59:28 <mykhal> ok
Nov 19 02:59:53 <Termana> DocScrutinizer51: If I wanted to monitor a gpio-switch, would doing it with inotify on the sys file waste battery and keep waking the device?
Nov 19 02:59:57 <mykhal> so why would i ever need a card if i can pick up wifi all the time?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 19 02:59:58 2010