**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 24 02:59:59 2010 Nov 24 03:05:29 No luck with fmms Nov 24 03:05:30 :( Nov 24 03:06:32 WAP-gateway: 010.010.010.011 Nov 24 03:06:39 Where do I put this in? Nov 24 03:12:49 I got fMMS to work! Nov 24 04:09:07 Could someone manage a working doc viewer on N900 ?? Nov 24 04:12:21 djszapi: I haven't tried but abiword worked on the n800. I don't know if there's an n900 specific port. Nov 24 04:12:43 I did not see, just freoffice which causes a segfault during the startup... Nov 24 04:13:56 to be honest, I would have a bit distinct expectation about an 'official' package... Nov 24 04:56:43 djszapi: if you mean a document viewer, there are many. If you mean the microsoft .doc file format, what would you be willing to pay for one? Nov 24 04:57:48 you could also do a good thing for humanity and bounce back .doc files as unreadable Nov 24 05:07:22 the spec is available, so it's pretty readable -- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc313118.aspx Nov 24 05:09:15 or could run OpenOffice Nov 24 05:14:22 or ask "his boss" why there's no such reader Nov 24 05:16:45 .doc isn't a document format. at least not as long as whatever is supposed to parse it must handle 5+ different formats. Nov 24 05:16:53 maybe you could call it a family of formats Nov 24 05:18:44 and microsoft chose - as a strategic ploy - to do this, in order that a free document viewer would be prohibitely expensive to implement Nov 24 05:19:08 not to mention competitor word processors Nov 24 05:20:11 the economic harm of this jackassery is difficult to estimate, but if you think to your document-formatting headaches throughout your life, much of that could have been avoided Nov 24 05:20:17 * erstazi misses this channel (used to come here when the 770 first came out). Still waiting on his free t-shirt from one of the Nokia guys Nov 24 05:20:38 it was nice when we were the only game in town, erstazi Nov 24 05:20:49 yep Nov 24 05:20:55 maybe a little too sleepy Nov 24 05:21:03 talking about my free t-shirt Nov 24 05:21:06 haha Nov 24 05:21:59 anyhow, recently,… I bought a n900 and I am excited as my 770 was white-screened about a year ago by a step-child. << never let children touch your tech equipment Nov 24 05:23:27 i vaguely remember your nick Nov 24 05:24:01 congrats erstazi :) like it so far? Nov 24 05:24:15 pupnik: this was 5~ years ago,… so I don't expect you to remember Nov 24 05:24:19 for me, it's the _only_ cool device on the market Nov 24 05:24:44 pupnik: haven't received it yet. it is in the mail. I think I got a steal on it since I only paid 220€ Nov 24 05:24:59 brand new Nov 24 05:25:10 can I order one from you? Nov 24 05:25:13 haha Nov 24 05:25:41 pupnik: have you tried MeeGo yet? (I do not like RPM-based distros much, even though I run one on main server) Nov 24 05:27:04 yes i have. Nov 24 05:27:30 sad to see maemo go, honestly. but what are your thoughts on it? Nov 24 05:28:03 in some ways it's better than maemo. it's a foundation. it's open. it's supported by two major vendors not one Nov 24 05:28:10 right Nov 24 05:28:38 i'm sort of sad to see gtk stuff go away Nov 24 05:28:42 exactly Nov 24 05:29:12 but, then again, I was shocked they went with GTK in ITOS 2005 Nov 24 05:29:20 since it is Nokia, that is. Nov 24 05:29:31 what did you think they would do? Nov 24 05:29:36 qt? Nov 24 05:29:36 Qt Nov 24 05:29:50 i think gtk was do-able at that time Nov 24 05:29:56 right Nov 24 05:30:00 I agree Nov 24 05:30:25 nevermind, Nokia acquired Trolltech in 2008 Nov 24 05:33:56 either way, I might dual boot, not sure yet. Nov 24 05:45:53 erstazi: how about running a changeroot on n900 with two x-servers - one maemo and one meego? Nov 24 05:46:01 wonder if it's possible Nov 24 05:48:40 pupnik: hmmm, I am up for the challenge (: Nov 24 05:49:57 i don't think it's realistic to run more than one x server on a system Nov 24 05:50:04 maybe X can arbitrate between two OS's but the rest of the devices wouldn't support that out of the box Nov 24 05:50:14 ieatlint: i do it on my PC fairly frequently Nov 24 05:50:20 i recall being given some very in depth reasoning why... Nov 24 05:50:43 there's no reason to run two x servers though, it's fully possible to just run 1 server for both methinks Nov 24 05:50:45 maybe it is similar to our mothers telling us not to double-dip? Nov 24 05:51:13 http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/multiple-x.html Nov 24 05:52:02 heh, alright then Nov 24 05:52:38 would still be unadvisable on the n900 if you look at how much ram x uses Nov 24 05:52:47 agree Nov 24 05:56:16 how would you share other resources? battery charging, accelerometers, notification LEDs, audio... all not designed to run with two concurrently active systems Nov 24 05:56:53 wlan, mass storage mode, BT... Nov 24 05:57:19 nah Nov 24 05:59:08 some awesome race conditions is how Nov 24 05:59:09 a chroot might be fine to runn meego userland apps, but for sure you'll not run a whole system this way Nov 24 06:01:29 just saw a presentation from the guys who did fcam Nov 24 06:02:02 Morning Nov 24 06:02:22 they did some weird stuff to get fcam working, heh Nov 24 06:02:59 but they seem to have some interesting stuff still coming Nov 24 06:09:41 khertan_: did you manage to implement the hildon notification stuff? forgot to mention that you have to kill hildon-desktop after the config file change (or reboot) Nov 24 06:10:50 thp, i ve carrefully note it in my todo list and will do it this morning in the train ;) Nov 24 06:11:06 thanks for the tips Nov 24 06:11:21 i must go on ... going to office. Bye Nov 24 06:28:27 do n900 support videocalls? Nov 24 06:28:49 over skype yes Nov 24 06:30:00 dammit Nov 24 08:25:38 why? Nov 24 08:50:23 Hi, I have a doubt. When I connect to internet, I get a notification on maemo update. Should I do that? If so will I get PR 1.3? Or should I connect to pc and flash it using flasher? Nov 24 08:50:44 try to update on phone Nov 24 08:50:47 but make a backup Nov 24 08:50:49 as it may fail Nov 24 08:50:57 oh Nov 24 08:51:00 or just will happen at all Nov 24 08:51:08 ok Nov 24 08:51:11 and if it fails, then you can flash it with pc Nov 24 08:51:25 or you can play with it to make it work Nov 24 08:51:39 but just flashing it is faster Nov 24 08:52:08 jacekowski I'll try update via phone first :) Will the inbuit backup utility suffice? Nov 24 08:52:28 yes Nov 24 08:52:33 just backup to sd card Nov 24 08:53:00 jacekowski: ok. Nov 24 08:53:57 I don't have skype in N900 at present. How will I know whether I'm running global version? Nov 24 08:54:46 It really doesn't matter what version you had before flashing Nov 24 08:54:52 It'll flash no matter what Nov 24 08:55:20 okay. Is global version the superset of all the versions? Nov 24 08:55:46 I think so. Or, at least, there's nothing disabled in it Nov 24 08:55:58 okay Nov 24 08:56:01 Thanks. Nov 24 08:56:10 Compared to the USA version, I'm not sure what real difference there is. Others may have some features disabled Nov 24 08:56:31 alright. Nov 24 09:04:07 Morning, all Nov 24 09:28:11 Hi! Please help! how can I undelete files that I've removed from my N900 with rm -rf Nov 24 09:29:06 heh Nov 24 09:30:36 is it possible to recover it somehow? Nov 24 09:31:51 testdisk Nov 24 09:31:59 can recover files Nov 24 09:32:01 goodluck Nov 24 09:32:22 that would only work on the sd card Nov 24 09:32:45 Wait... why? Nov 24 09:33:24 the mmc is ubifs if i recall right, which isn't a supported fs Nov 24 09:33:30 Actually, provided the files are on the MyDocs, wouldn't any Windows/fat32 undelete utility work? Nov 24 09:33:50 ah, right, i always forget that mydocs is fat32 :P Nov 24 09:34:01 ieatlint: Actually, it's the rootfs that's ubifs. Optfs is ext2 also. Nov 24 09:34:02 ok, it'd work on the sd card or mydocs Nov 24 09:34:05 so I can use fat32 undelete? Nov 24 09:34:13 or testdisk? Nov 24 09:34:17 both Nov 24 09:34:22 Try fat32 undelete first Nov 24 09:34:26 if it doesn't work... Nov 24 09:34:44 is there such thing in linux? Nov 24 09:34:53 in mtools? Nov 24 09:35:24 zeev: oh, and don't write *anything* to the disk Nov 24 09:36:00 so for instance, say it's in mydocs, don't write anything into mydocs (or run an application that will write something there) Nov 24 09:36:10 should I connect it via usb to my computer or do it on n900 itself? Nov 24 09:36:27 Connect to computer Nov 24 09:36:31 grr Nov 24 09:36:34 zeev, how did you accidentally manage to do that? did you fall on your phone, open a console window, somehow manage to randomly type a command and enter it? Nov 24 09:36:36 andre__: i got nokia'd? Nov 24 09:36:43 You can easily have it unmounted, and have more tools available Nov 24 09:37:31 ok I'll try it right now... Nov 24 09:42:25 does anybody know an equivalent of dos's undelete for linux? Nov 24 09:43:06 zeev: http://freshmeat.net/projects/unrm/ Nov 24 09:43:08 ;-P Nov 24 09:44:28 is it for fat32? Nov 24 09:46:49 so... metamaterials can boost antennas just by existing Nov 24 09:46:51 shweet Nov 24 09:51:12 how can I create an image of disk and work with it for recovery? Nov 24 09:51:26 (in order not to damage the phone) Nov 24 09:51:39 dd Nov 24 09:52:23 RobbieThe1st: i think usa version has some limitation on fmtx Nov 24 09:52:53 Huh; perhaps so. The fmtx addon fixes that, though Nov 24 09:53:20 Appiah: could you, please, provide the full command (I'm not so advanced and a bit nervous :) ) Nov 24 09:54:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_(Unix) check the examples Nov 24 09:56:12 does it look ok: dd if=/dev/sdb of=/home/user/diskimage ? Nov 24 09:56:56 zeev: almost. I would add bs=65536 or st. like that Nov 24 09:56:59 Yea. I'd add a "bs=4096" at the end though Nov 24 09:57:15 which one :) ? Nov 24 09:57:16 4096 - 4kb, which is the block size of flash blocks Nov 24 09:57:26 thanks Nov 24 09:58:11 let's go... Nov 24 09:58:29 zeev: noooooooooo! Nov 24 09:58:32 ;-) Nov 24 09:58:38 65536 = 16k, or 4 blocks at once. it won't hurt eithher way, but I'm not sure which is faster Nov 24 09:58:57 645536 is actually 64kB Nov 24 09:59:15 while its working - what should be the next step? Nov 24 09:59:47 Yea, that sounds right. so what..16 blocks at once. Same diff Nov 24 10:00:34 zeev: mount it w/ "sudo mount -o loop file /some/dir" Nov 24 10:00:45 replace "file" and "somedir" Nov 24 10:00:53 with st. sensible Nov 24 10:01:00 ok... and testdisk? Nov 24 10:01:27 hmmm. maybe do not mount it, actually Nov 24 10:03:12 edheldil: so, what's better for testdisk? (its what I have on my distro) Nov 24 10:03:37 I do not have testdisk. Look into man how it works Nov 24 10:03:47 "man testdisk" Nov 24 10:04:47 either it needs mounted fs (then use the mount above), or a block? device, (then use losetup to create it from a file) Nov 24 10:05:58 alterego, ping Nov 24 10:06:38 how long should dd take? Nov 24 10:06:44 depends Nov 24 10:06:51 zee, how big and on what device? Nov 24 10:06:51 on nand, seconds Nov 24 10:06:59 n900 Nov 24 10:07:10 mydocs Nov 24 10:07:21 If it's the 28GB Fat32 disk... you're talking 10mb/sec or so... Nov 24 10:07:21 zeev, 2Gig takes 45 minutes in mydocs. Nov 24 10:07:22 what is and exact command you are using? Nov 24 10:07:38 ehh Nov 24 10:07:48 dd if=/dev/sdb of=/home/zeev/diskimage bs=4096 Nov 24 10:07:48 what command exactly are you using? Nov 24 10:08:05 zeev, well that's what it took when I did it. Nov 24 10:08:11 how big is sdb? Nov 24 10:08:51 I don't know - its N900's partition Nov 24 10:09:08 It's the MyDocs partition(right?) so 28GB or so Nov 24 10:09:21 rigth Nov 24 10:09:49 the problem is - when I click on the diskimage file in gnome it shows the same filesize Nov 24 10:09:55 for a while already Nov 24 10:10:01 like its not growing Nov 24 10:10:18 try CDing there and typing "ls -l ./filename" Nov 24 10:10:49 You can then keep tabs on it with "watch -n 5 ls -l ./filename" - It'll auto update the current size every 5 seconds Nov 24 10:10:58 well, 10-15M/s Nov 24 10:11:03 and you have 28G Nov 24 10:11:09 do the meth Nov 24 10:11:12 math* Nov 24 10:11:26 so I can see it growing Nov 24 10:11:28 thank you! Nov 24 10:11:31 NP Nov 24 10:11:39 you can do killall -USR1 dd Nov 24 10:11:49 and it will make dd print current status Nov 24 10:11:53 enough time to learn how testdisk works Nov 24 10:12:59 just one more question: if I did wrote to the partition after the deletion - how bad is it? is only files that got overwritten are lost - or everything can be lost? Nov 24 10:13:14 I'd do "killall -USR1 `pidof dd`" which -does- work if only one DD instance is running. Nov 24 10:13:20 Only things overwritten Nov 24 10:13:22 zeev: it's hard to know Nov 24 10:13:28 you basically want to stop writing ASAP Nov 24 10:13:35 nope Nov 24 10:13:44 it's not going to work with pidof Nov 24 10:13:46 I do not write - but the phone is on Nov 24 10:14:00 I hope it doesn't writes there on its own Nov 24 10:14:02 if you give it pid then you have to use kill Nov 24 10:14:08 zeev: it will do some writes Nov 24 10:14:37 anyway I can't switch it off - I dd it Nov 24 10:14:55 jacekowski: Erm... try it yourself. It -does- work Nov 24 10:15:31 I think I made 2 photos after the deletion which are saved in mydocs... Nov 24 10:15:36 right? Nov 24 10:15:58 timeless 69041 0.0 0.0 2434896 568 s006 T 12:07PM 0:00.01 man killall Nov 24 10:15:58 timeless-mbp:~ timeless$ killall 69041 Nov 24 10:15:58 No matching processes belonging to you were found Nov 24 10:16:07 it's possible that busybox killall is nice Nov 24 10:16:17 but it certainly isn't a cross platform promise on killall Nov 24 10:16:30 Oh, wait... Nov 24 10:16:39 I meant "kill -USR1 `pidof dd`" Nov 24 10:16:40 KILLALL(1) BSD General Commands Manual KILLALL(1) Nov 24 10:16:45 killall [-delmsvz] [-help] [-u user] [-t tty] [-c procname] [-SIGNAL] Nov 24 10:16:45 [procname ...] Nov 24 10:17:22 RobbieThe1st: it's same thing Nov 24 10:17:39 RobbieThe1st: i mean killall -USR1 dd or kill -USR1 `pidof dd` Nov 24 10:17:55 Oh, ok. Nov 24 10:18:07 I just tried the latter, and it's working. Which was my point Nov 24 10:18:45 RobbieThe1st: on your busybox system i hope? Nov 24 10:19:03 * timeless_mbp wouldn't trust behaviors from a standard gnu or bsd app to apply on busybox Nov 24 10:19:05 Nope; on my bash-based Debian desktop Nov 24 10:19:20 He was using a computer too, so it's a fair thing Nov 24 10:19:28 *desktop/laptop, not n900 Nov 24 10:19:32 is dd's output called raw disk image? (testdisk image.dd to carve a raw disk image) Nov 24 10:19:33 is he using it or is he using his n900? Nov 24 10:19:47 me? Nov 24 10:19:50 computer Nov 24 10:19:54 zeev: dd's output is roughly equivalent to dd's input Nov 24 10:20:08 if your input device is a disk, then the output is an image of a disk Nov 24 10:20:09 So, yes, I suppose it would be a raw disk image Nov 24 10:20:20 In the case we are talking about Nov 24 10:20:21 if the input is a file, the output is a file Nov 24 10:20:23 I mean how is it called (I'm reading the testdisk manual) Nov 24 10:20:58 http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk:_undelete_file_for_FAT Nov 24 10:21:02 Give me a minute; I've got to install it. Nov 24 10:21:15 its in debian repo Nov 24 10:21:36 Yea. Nov 24 10:21:55 "sudo apt-get install testdisk"... It does take a minute though. Nov 24 10:22:31 Anyway, I'd try "testdisk /home/zeev/diskimage" Nov 24 10:48:36 Since there are not enough twitter clients I'm thinking on making one for maemo, meego and symbian. Goal being to have it flexible enough to be nice on both handset and netbook. Nov 24 10:49:08 mece: you mean, like, a browser? Nov 24 10:49:16 Make it with Python, so it's usable like just about everywhere? Nov 24 10:49:27 kerio, no. Nov 24 10:49:50 RobbieThe1st, qml+qt Nov 24 10:50:21 That could work, I suppose... but running it stock on a Linux desktop would be harder I think. Nov 24 10:50:37 And, I dunno about compiling it for Windows/OSX... Nov 24 10:50:51 RobbieThe1st, well I meant meego netbook. Nov 24 10:51:01 Why limit yourself to that, though? Nov 24 10:51:15 RobbieThe1st, well I wont, but I want to use qml. Nov 24 10:51:17 I mean, if you right true cross-platform code, it'll run on -everything- Nov 24 10:51:32 RobbieThe1st, possibly. We'll see :) Nov 24 10:54:25 <_< After looking at the language on Wikipedia, I think XML Nov 24 10:54:40 *XUL's better Nov 24 10:56:48 I regret that there's no way to mark some packages as crap on tmo such that it would display when installing the packages on n900 ;-) Nov 24 11:06:55 كيفك Nov 24 11:07:01 ايش اخبارك Nov 24 11:14:06 RobbieThe1st, and others: thank you very much!!!! I got most (if not all) of my stuff recovered - fotos of my small children from period of several years... Thanks God!... now my wife will not kill me! Nov 24 11:15:35 zeev: do backups now so that she won't kill you in the future :p Nov 24 11:15:53 yea... now I will Nov 24 11:24:25 greetings :-) Nov 24 11:25:03 is there anyone who can help me with my problem? (here is the link: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=871939#post871939) Nov 24 11:27:32 does Maemo SDK work on windows? Nov 24 11:28:38 lolloo: you can use the Nokia Qt SDK, afaik it has madde, so you can build Qt-based maemo apps on windows Nov 24 11:28:52 what thp said Nov 24 11:30:39 wow nice, is it newer than the original nokia SDK? Nov 24 11:31:20 lolloo: what do you mean by "original nokia sdk"? scratchbox-based maemo sdk? Nov 24 11:31:41 Qt-based is better than Nokia SDK? Nov 24 11:32:31 "better" depends on what you want to do Nov 24 11:32:48 ~better Nov 24 11:32:48 i heard better is not always the best route. Nov 24 11:32:57 oh man that's a relief, I was struggling to install nokia sdk on ubuntu virtual machine Nov 24 11:33:42 lolloo: yes, for third party apps that you might want to port to meego/symbian later, Nokia Qt SDK is the way to go. it also comes with a nice IDE :p Nov 24 11:34:23 awesome, you saved me alot of time! Nov 24 11:42:12 I'm trying to install a certificate in my browser, reading the post it refers to two applications that I do not have "file manager" and "certificate manager". Can do this from a terminal and avoid having to install loads of extra apps just to get the cert into the browser? Nov 24 11:42:58 Well, the cert manager is in the settings I guess. Nov 24 11:44:53 correct Nov 24 11:44:58 yes Nov 24 11:45:08 file manager would be in utilities if you use catorize Nov 24 11:45:08 and File Manager is installed by default Nov 24 11:45:47 * timeless_mbp ponders Nov 24 11:45:55 i don't think you can *uninstall* either of them Nov 24 11:48:05 It says the cert is expired, check the dates, and I check the dates and im OK with that, but cant continue to install it Nov 24 11:48:12 so Nov 24 11:48:17 certman is kinda annoying Nov 24 11:48:21 check your n900's clock Nov 24 11:48:27 it's generally broken Nov 24 11:48:30 it IS expired Nov 24 11:48:32 I don't care. Nov 24 11:48:40 it works in firefox on the desktop Nov 24 11:48:44 there's a commandline you can use to install it Nov 24 11:48:52 i complained to the guy who did this a few weeks ago Nov 24 11:48:57 this may be fixed in harmattan Nov 24 11:49:11 there's a MfE wiki page which talks about how to install a cert from the commandline Nov 24 11:49:21 one of the flags (-i? -a?) iirc will let you install it anyway Nov 24 11:49:22 (maybe) Nov 24 11:49:31 personally, i wrote a script to move the clock around Nov 24 11:49:33 flags to what command? Nov 24 11:50:09 http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/jabber-ssl-fix.deb has the code i was using Nov 24 11:50:15 don't install the deb, but look at how it does work Nov 24 11:50:20 * timeless_mbp has to go to work Nov 24 11:50:38 i /think/ i filed a bug in bugs.maemo.org for this Nov 24 11:50:53 search reporter contains timeless + changed in 2m Nov 24 11:51:07 (don't limit by status/resolution) Nov 24 11:52:20 "search reported contains timeless" ? Nov 24 11:52:27 bugs.maemo.org Nov 24 11:52:33 What is "search reporter" and "timeless" ? Nov 24 11:52:33 if you want to see if i filed a bug Nov 24 11:52:39 go away Nov 24 11:52:39 die Nov 24 11:52:40 die Nov 24 11:52:40 die Nov 24 11:53:34 I guess I could generate new certificates that aren't expired. Nov 24 11:53:44 that'd be the smart plan.. Nov 24 11:53:49 I explicitly told the ssh tools to use 7300 days, but that shit ignored it and just made a year Nov 24 11:56:28 good morning Nov 24 11:57:04 Good afternoon Nov 24 11:57:50 good afternoon Nov 24 11:58:31 Oh, how does one make a tilde with the N900 keyboard? Can I configure the default terminal to have more keys in the bottom menu? Nov 24 11:59:12 1) shift sym/ctrl 2) maybe with keyboard mod app Nov 24 11:59:22 Coke: http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard Nov 24 11:59:44 psycho_oreos: shift + sym + 2 does not produce a tilde Nov 24 11:59:50 thp: not really what I want... Nov 24 12:00:02 The terminal has ctrl, tab, esc, pgup and pgdown. Can I add my own there? Nov 24 12:00:10 It's basically only in the terminal I need tilde Nov 24 12:00:25 Coke, shift + sym and it'll come up with more keyboard keys on the screen, you just choose the one you want Nov 24 12:01:19 No. Nov 24 12:01:28 Maybe I need to install something Nov 24 12:02:14 Coke: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=660761&postcount=34 Nov 24 12:03:03 thp: thanks! Nov 24 12:03:12 But psycho_oreos suggestion sounds even nicer Nov 24 12:03:23 I always wondered why there's no virtual keyboard in maemo Nov 24 12:03:38 sometimes I want chars that are not available, would be nice to get that shift + sym thing working Nov 24 12:05:30 Coke: it's [bluekey]+sym if you want that "special char palette" Nov 24 12:05:46 then touch the tilde and press space and it's there Nov 24 12:06:31 (you need the space, because tilde is a dead key that you could theoretically combine with e.g. "a") Nov 24 12:09:36 no special char palette Nov 24 12:10:49 the char palette comes up in about 1/20 presses on sym+blue arrow to the right Nov 24 12:11:15 Oh I see. I have to press blue arrow FIRST, then add SYM and finally release Nov 24 12:11:29 quite akward Nov 24 12:15:22 Weird, just restarted my N900 and MyDocs came up read only Nov 24 12:15:52 * alterego restarts again Nov 24 12:23:35 has anyone else had a problem in which the n900 will not play any audio? Nov 24 12:24:05 no media player, no mplayer, no calls, and not even little interface noises like the window close sound Nov 24 12:24:16 also, the volume buttons don't bring up an OSD Nov 24 12:24:27 oddly, restarting doesn't fix it; i have to take the battery out Nov 24 12:25:43 How come the terminal doesn't save history when I quit it? Nov 24 12:26:55 I dont even have a .bash_history any more, yet there are some commands stored in the history I can access, but they are old Nov 24 12:27:30 It's starting to get annoying having to write the same stuff over and over again now. Nov 24 12:28:55 Coke: "how come"? Software has boogs I have heard :-) Nov 24 12:30:02 andre__: I think bash has been working for as long as I can remember Nov 24 12:30:16 Coke, ? how do you mean? Nov 24 12:30:26 There's no bug in bash Nov 24 12:30:35 unless there's a custom patch on it or something weird Nov 24 12:30:35 Coke: are you using bash? Nov 24 12:30:44 good question Nov 24 12:30:51 Coke: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5317 Nov 24 12:30:52 Bug 5317: Shell does not save command history / Busybox doesn't handle SIGHUP properly Nov 24 12:31:11 bleh, /bin/sh Nov 24 12:31:13 not fixed in Maemo5, fixed in Harmattan, no "me too!" comments please Nov 24 12:31:28 What a sucky bug Nov 24 12:31:39 plus https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7014 is also annoying Nov 24 12:31:40 Bug 7014: ash saves only 15 lines of history Nov 24 12:31:45 The terminal is the only tool I use. Nov 24 12:31:53 I forgot this shit uses buggybox Nov 24 12:32:35 are these bugs at all? Nov 24 12:32:44 Ok, well, my MAIN problem is this: I have a certificate that expires 2019, yet maemo cert manager insist it expires in june 2010. Can I 1) ignore the bug in cert manager or 2) convince it to read the date properly ? Nov 24 12:32:59 Coke: file a bug and attach the cert Nov 24 12:33:25 timeless_mbp: so there's no way of telling the application that I, as a user, don't really care what it thinks? Nov 24 12:34:39 The cert expires Nov 21 12:05:26 2020 GMT Nov 24 12:35:04 somehow cert manager reads that as june 9 2019 Nov 24 12:35:13 (for the issuer) Nov 24 12:35:19 timeless_mbp: useless instruction, please don't tell people to waste time Nov 24 12:35:20 and june 20 2010 for the client Nov 24 12:35:32 filing a bug for platform stuff: as long as it's not something major Nokia won't fix it for Maemo5 Nov 24 12:35:47 You don't think its' major? Nov 24 12:36:38 even if Nokia does not bother to fix it, it's still better to document it, no? Nov 24 12:36:38 Actually, something is really broken with the cert manager Nov 24 12:36:45 I dont' know where it looks when I browse N900 Nov 24 12:36:51 how do I just access my homedir ? Nov 24 12:37:23 ~messybox Nov 24 12:37:23 messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils Nov 24 12:37:54 I have 31G free Nov 24 12:38:01 perhaps they could have used some of that space for some decent utils Nov 24 12:38:38 You are lucky to have shell at all, though Nov 24 12:39:42 Oh well, guess I have to put it under MyDocs for any apps to use it Nov 24 12:40:38 So what now? Everybody waiting for the Intel MeeGo to be ported to ARM? Nov 24 12:40:47 andre__: I don't think it's a good strategy to quiet people with the rationale "Nokia won't fix it anyway" Nov 24 12:41:07 Also, does Nokia have to fix it? Isn't it community driven? Nov 24 12:41:16 DocScrutinizer: I don't want to quiet people at all. I don't want people to waste their time. Nov 24 12:41:25 andre__: shut down bugtracker if you don't like to see new tickets Nov 24 12:41:43 DocScrutinizer, sounds like a plan. Nov 24 12:41:53 I want to see important ones though Nov 24 12:41:59 so not a good plan ;-) Nov 24 12:42:30 So, I've had my 2nd phone die on me now XD Nov 24 12:42:33 aha, and who decides about which ones are important? you?? Nov 24 12:43:01 If you want me to, I can? Nov 24 12:43:05 DocScrutinizer, https://bugs.maemo.org/page.cgi?id=fields.html#importance Nov 24 12:43:16 pfff Nov 24 12:43:24 * CableTwitch declares the red ones to be of the utmost importance. Nov 24 12:43:29 Isn't the whole point of open source projects that you don't need Nokia's blessing? Nov 24 12:43:40 (though that's the default fields.html. Hmm, a bug.) Nov 24 12:44:13 This may or may not be a good thing to ask, but I'm getting dribbly results from the official source... is there a community torrent of the PR1.3 firmware? Nov 24 12:44:16 In any case, is it confirmed that meego will be the next thing? If not, Maemo will need more support. Nov 24 12:45:11 Also, what does it mean when the LED does sod all when you power up, the device sits on the Nokia logo for about 30 seconds, then the screen powers down ever-so-slowly? Nov 24 12:45:28 I seem to have a knack for making things not work no more. Nov 24 12:45:37 sounds like your phone is broken Nov 24 12:45:40 Never had that happen to me Nov 24 12:45:53 Its possible, as its a wonderful refurb. Nov 24 12:46:16 charge battery? Nov 24 12:46:18 I broke the USB connector out of the first one, and Vodafone gave me a lovely replacement, and said mine couldnt be fixed. Nov 24 12:46:24 Funny, they sent it to Nokia too. Nov 24 12:46:33 Doc: Battery is fully charged. Nov 24 12:46:41 Ive had my for, hm, almost a year, been on the last 86 days without restart so I would have to test. Nov 24 12:47:18 CableTwitch: actually looks like hw problem. Can you take a video and post Nov 24 12:47:31 The funny thing is this... I was using it on wifi only while in the states, when, after reading an email, it decided to freeze up on me. Nothing out of the ordinary, as the firmware wasnt even PR1.2 at this point. So I restarted it... and it never woke up beyond the above description. Nov 24 12:47:44 I can do, doc. Nov 24 12:47:53 andre__: so what's gonna happen? No more updates? Nov 24 12:48:06 Coke: Huh? I didn't say that Nov 24 12:48:12 No, I'm asking Nov 24 12:48:15 Well, ask Nokia... Nov 24 12:48:16 the only downside is that I'm not linux expert (not even technically a user), so probing the internals from a linux desktop is A) Beyond me, and B) I dont run linux anyway. Nov 24 12:48:27 andre__: I thought they didn't run that show Nov 24 12:48:40 I DID manage to update it to PR1.3, it would appear, but no joy. Nov 24 12:48:57 CableTwitch: it's a joyless world Nov 24 12:49:02 Going to try one last go with the eMMC as well, and if that doesnt work, another trip to the Voda store... Nov 24 12:49:13 Heres another funny thing... Nov 24 12:49:16 Coke: official Maemo5 releases? Yes, that's Nokia's area. Nov 24 12:49:40 Plug it into the power, or the USB lead without activating the upload mode, and the device powers on, and tries to boot. Nov 24 12:49:42 andre__: don't really care if they are official. i run the extra and dev repos as well Nov 24 12:49:53 It has gotten as far as the flashing dots a few times, but no further. Nov 24 12:50:00 Coke, that's a completely different topic Nov 24 12:50:27 So, now I'm DLing the 1.3 release again, in order to do the flash+emmc. Nov 24 12:50:29 CableTwitch: sounds like weak battery Nov 24 12:50:32 CableTwitch, backup your mmc and flash it Nov 24 12:50:36 Downloading at 18k/s... :O( Nov 24 12:50:55 Doc: Does it from the mains as well. Nov 24 12:51:00 DocScrutinizer, or a broken eMMC, thus opitfication fails and therefore, bootup goes into an infinite loop Nov 24 12:51:11 CableTwitch: there's no "from mains" Nov 24 12:51:27 Now... does anyone know of a faster location to get the 1.3 release, bar nokias pitifully slow site? Nov 24 12:51:36 Doc: Oh goody. Nov 24 12:51:45 MohammadAG: as well possible Nov 24 12:51:45 thanks Nov 24 12:52:01 CableTwitch, their site gives me good speeds Nov 24 12:52:11 Ahh, yes. One more thing... I did have it showing a solid yellow LED at points, which I belive is when the battery is below 3.7v? Nov 24 12:52:11 and no, at least not legally Nov 24 12:52:51 MohammadAG: or wrong flashing sequence, with a boot in between Nov 24 12:52:51 or when bme fails to start and battery is low Nov 24 12:52:52 Hmm. You'd think maemo.org might host a torrent of it, for easy access. Or do nokia not like the idea of that? Nov 24 12:53:07 DocScrutinizer, yep Nov 24 12:53:18 The battery appeared to charge fine after a while, and ened the charge cycle on a green LED, but still no joy. Nov 24 12:53:22 CableTwitch, only nokia can host the image Nov 24 12:53:30 torrents mean others will be uploading Nov 24 12:53:35 CableTwitch: odd. reflash Nov 24 12:53:36 Bum. I'd better go shout at VM then Nov 24 12:54:00 Doc: The unit died BEFORE I flashed it, which was odd. It just seemed to kill itself. Nov 24 12:54:15 Crashed, restarted, and went into alzheimers boot-loop Nov 24 12:54:23 ok, that's a clear "perster seller" Nov 24 12:54:36 pester even Nov 24 12:55:21 CableTwitch: unless you unstalled power kernel, or mobile hotspot Nov 24 12:55:23 Yaya, 15.4MB done so far, only 2 hours 46 to go... Nov 24 12:55:34 installed (damn I miss my coffee) Nov 24 12:55:47 Doc: The unit was untouched, apart from installing previous software that I had on it before. Nov 24 12:56:01 Some software didnt install, due to it being the wrong PR Nov 24 12:56:04 CableTwitch: unless you unstalled power kernel, or mobile hotspot Nov 24 12:56:07 And waaaaaaait a minute.... Nov 24 12:56:23 I dont use power kernel or mobile hotspot. Nov 24 12:56:40 hmm, k Nov 24 12:56:50 I DID manage to get WifiEye installed, although it wouldnt run. I wonder if that threw something into the works? Nov 24 12:56:54 anyway try reflashing Nov 24 12:57:03 I shall. Nov 24 12:57:22 I hope to hell its not hardware related. I really dont want to wait for another unit again XD Nov 24 12:58:14 I doubt it; probably a dumb eMMC/optfs issue. Nov 24 12:58:15 The sad thing about the first one is that shortly after sending it off, I realised my local hackspace has an SMC hot-air rework station. I could have replaced the bloody USB port myself... *cries* Nov 24 12:58:24 * MohammadAG hates hardware problems Nov 24 12:58:41 Does the eMMC have moments where it corrupts itself then? Nov 24 12:58:50 Or something else might cause it to go a bit loopy? Nov 24 12:58:57 It did on me, once. Still not sure why Nov 24 12:59:04 For all I know, it might have been cosmic radiation. Nov 24 12:59:35 Which would figure, oddly. I WAS pretty much on the equator... direct hit, mental firmware ahoy! Nov 24 12:59:50 Literally out of the blue, the Optfs corrupted and it wouldn't boot. After diagnosing the problem, I restored an optfs backup image(thanks to my own software) and that solved the problem Nov 24 13:00:08 Something else... it wouldnt pick up GPS that day either. Nothing above me, I had the relevant map installed, and it wouldnt find anything. Nov 24 13:00:26 Who knows. Nov 24 13:00:31 Robbie: I've seen your posts, and I might be tempted to see how you did that. Nov 24 13:00:52 IF this attempt fails miserably. But like I said earlier, if it involves a linux desktop, I'm a bit fubar. Nov 24 13:01:23 however, its going to take me a good 3 hours or so to get to that point, courtesy of something playing silly buggers with my net speed. Nov 24 13:01:29 It's all GPL licensed shell-script. And, the benefit of my setup is it -doesn't- require a PC for -most- stuff. Nov 24 13:01:43 How does it work then? Nov 24 13:01:47 CableTwitch: there've been bootloops because of SIM with odd contact or SMS data on it Nov 24 13:01:59 Mr Device doesnt boot, so it needs something external to cause it to play nice. Nov 24 13:02:13 try booting without SIM and without uSD Nov 24 13:02:37 Doc: No SMS or contacts added after I arrived in the US. I was there for 3 weeks, it dies on the 2nd to last day. Nov 24 13:02:49 Oh, and I've tried removing everything, no dice. Nov 24 13:02:58 ok Nov 24 13:03:16 At this point, I might place it in a pyramid and sacrafice a black lamb to the gods in order to make it better. Nov 24 13:03:33 Bootmenu-n900 starts a script right at the beginning of the boot process if the keyboard is open. My script runs right there, makes a ramdisk, and chroots into it - From there, backing up or restoring stuff to the rootfs/optfs/whatever is easy, because it's not being accessed Nov 24 13:03:38 won't help :-P Nov 24 13:03:52 Which, my method or his script? Nov 24 13:04:14 Robbie: I take it you place that on the SD card? Nov 24 13:04:30 Well, it won't help -this- problem currently. I mean... you've got to install it first. Nov 24 13:04:33 both :P Nov 24 13:04:48 RobbieThe1st: chroot or pivotroot Nov 24 13:04:52 Ahhh, its a pre-disaster recovery doohicky. Nov 24 13:05:13 Oh, you son of a bitch... one second Nov 24 13:05:15 Actually, I keep all I need(around ~100kb) on the rootfs. I generate the ramdisk on-the-fly from maemo files. And I use chroot. Nov 24 13:05:20 Why? Nov 24 13:05:50 chroot isn't the right thing for leaving real root alone Nov 24 13:06:12 you'll need pivotroot for this Nov 24 13:06:26 What happens? I mean... I was able to umount the ubifs, so I -assume- things work OK...? Nov 24 13:06:46 Goddamnit, stupid bloody switch went mental, which would account for the crappy download speeds. Nov 24 13:06:54 There we go... 1.9MB/s... better now Nov 24 13:07:37 10 seconds till its done XD Nov 24 13:07:43 lol Nov 24 13:08:40 Its many, many years old, and it sometimes loses the plot. You can tell when its gone mental because the traffic lights flash constantly. Nov 24 13:08:56 Its old, but its mostly reliable, and it was only a tenner. Nov 24 13:09:15 Soooo. thats the eMMC and the PR1.3 done Nov 24 13:09:21 Time to flash... Nov 24 13:09:48 A question... better to go for the global PR1.3, or whack the UK PR1.2 on it? Nov 24 13:10:10 1.3 Nov 24 13:10:21 global Nov 24 13:10:22 Right Nov 24 13:10:38 i'm still not sure what hte point of UK releases is Nov 24 13:10:44 they all support UK english Nov 24 13:10:57 Hm; near as I can figure, chroot will work in my case due to it being the init thread I'm running on; and the fact that it -can- unmount the old rootfs, so it's working right anyway. I'll look at pivotroot later, though. Nov 24 13:11:56 pivot_root used to switch e.g. from initrd to real rootfs Nov 24 13:12:17 Right, lets flash this bastard... Nov 24 13:12:45 Well, be that as it may, it still -works-, for whatever reason. So, no reason to panic, I don't think. Nov 24 13:13:22 And if it didn't work right(not able to umount rootfs), it would give an error, so that should be good enough until I can figure out pivot_root. Nov 24 13:13:29 RobbieThe1st: yes, usually you backup systems in init S state, not even in chroot. I guess it's ok Nov 24 13:14:11 http://www.linux.fm/ O.o Nov 24 13:14:18 that's brilliant Nov 24 13:14:23 just saying chroot isn't the right tool Nov 24 13:14:25 At least it flashes. Nov 24 13:14:36 Hm, I'm curious - is there a page detailing the n900's boot sequence compared to a "desktop" distro's boot sequence? Nov 24 13:14:45 I know there are some difference Nov 24 13:14:50 lol, alas not Nov 24 13:15:34 I'm going to have to look into that at some point... Anyway, I'm off now. Nov 24 13:15:46 Oh hell no.... Nov 24 13:15:55 The stupid thing tried to reboot. Nov 24 13:16:09 omit -R !! Nov 24 13:16:11 remove the "-R". Nov 24 13:16:15 Yea Nov 24 13:16:15 I DID Nov 24 13:16:17 Oh, and for anyone who cares: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 Nov 24 13:16:44 Its stalled on the Nokai screen again... Nov 24 13:17:10 wait Nov 24 13:17:12 I wonder... if I power it down, and reattach it to the PC in install mode... can we recover this... Nov 24 13:17:14 Anyone know a good program for Linux that allows you to view NMEA logs? Nov 24 13:17:21 first boot can take minutes Nov 24 13:17:49 I'm waiting, but its just sitting at the dim nokia logo, like its in upload mode. But no USB symbol. Nov 24 13:17:59 I havent done the eMMC though Nov 24 13:18:00 CableTwitch: we recover everything, we are linux :-P Nov 24 13:18:11 Oh, dots? Nov 24 13:18:24 Aaaand it freezes on the 2nd dot. Again. Nov 24 13:18:33 I shall wait, however. Nov 24 13:18:46 LED? Nov 24 13:18:47 Uh, huh Nov 24 13:18:58 Bright Nokia screen... Nov 24 13:19:15 was it amber solid while dim NOKIA? Nov 24 13:19:22 Oh, and its now in its reboot loop. Great. Nov 24 13:19:27 No, no LED. Nov 24 13:19:39 At this point, I'm no further forward or back than the last time. Nov 24 13:19:56 I can TRY and do the eMMC now, if thats likely to make any difference? Nov 24 13:19:56 you flashed COMBINED? Nov 24 13:20:01 1.3? Nov 24 13:20:09 I flashed PR1.3 global. Nov 24 13:20:17 Combined, yes Nov 24 13:20:40 Using the latest release, both the PR and the eMMC Nov 24 13:20:56 Well, I would be using the latest eMMC, but it never quite got that far Nov 24 13:21:13 The hell? Nov 24 13:21:21 Oh, thats gotta be bad. Nov 24 13:21:30 so now try flash VANILLA first, without -R. remove battery when flashing finished. then flash COMBINED again, by sequence "flasher; plug; hold u; insert bat" Nov 24 13:21:47 Well, it appears during one of its boot cycles, it decided to update the eMMC. I forgot it was still waiting to do so. Nov 24 13:22:17 Ok, I'll wait for it to power down. Nov 24 13:22:43 The boot cycle keeps repeating when its plugged into power/USB, but when disconnected, it just loses all interest and fades out. Nov 24 13:23:09 I have no control over when it decides to restart, however. Nov 24 13:23:39 sounds quite like fried hw Nov 24 13:23:50 right, update mode enabled, its sitting happily. Nov 24 13:24:03 Updating the eMMC without the -R Nov 24 13:24:19 Aaaand no suitable device found. Nov 24 13:24:28 Aaand now its in reboot loop hell again. Nov 24 13:24:29 make *sure* you don't accidentally boot after that Nov 24 13:24:46 At this point, I'm going to have to make sure I dont throw it out of the window. Nov 24 13:25:22 no, you have to make sure battery is completely charged. Alas that's impossible with only a bootlooping deice Nov 24 13:25:39 It DOES eventually charge the battery Nov 24 13:25:49 no it DOES NOT Nov 24 13:25:58 It goes solid yellow for a while, then pulsing in charge mode, then solid green when its done. Nov 24 13:26:21 So basically, I have a device that cannot charge its battery? Nov 24 13:26:26 so this is a "completely booted" system that does this Nov 24 13:26:41 I think it gives up after a while. Nov 24 13:26:51 I know I'm getting that way Nov 24 13:27:13 green LED means bme is running, means linux proper is running Nov 24 13:27:30 Huh, so eventually it MUST boot. Nov 24 13:27:49 the state is called acting_dead Nov 24 13:28:02 and is similar to a init 2 Nov 24 13:28:14 on a usual system - well kinda Nov 24 13:28:19 Battery voltage reads 3.98, so it must be charging. Nov 24 13:28:29 that's ok Nov 24 13:28:57 and eMMC flahing inadvertedly rebooted? Nov 24 13:29:15 even without -R? Nov 24 13:29:20 Thats the odd thing. If I try to do the eMMC, it cant find the device, even though its in upload mode. Nov 24 13:29:38 However, the device apparently got flashed with it during one of its reboots. Nov 24 13:29:52 Hmm. Nov 24 13:30:05 I get a brief yellow LED if I plug the data cable in with no battery Nov 24 13:30:16 :nod: Nov 24 13:30:22 nevermind Nov 24 13:30:38 And as soon as I put the battery in with the cable attached, the device powers up and tried to boot. Only, with no backlight. Nov 24 13:30:52 :nod: Nov 24 13:30:53 Some people have experienced emmc hardware failures. Nov 24 13:31:03 you hold 'u' while it does that Nov 24 13:32:06 start flasher, hold 'u', plug in, hold 'u', insert battery, still hold 'u' Nov 24 13:32:30 Ok, it connects to the PC fine when I hold U, and I can flash the FIASCO fine. But if I try and do the eMMC, it cant find the device. Nov 24 13:32:47 start flasher, as in get it waiting? Nov 24 13:32:47 that's incorrect Nov 24 13:32:52 yes Nov 24 13:33:20 finding device is unrelated to what you want to flash Nov 24 13:33:35 Its updating, excellent Nov 24 13:33:56 when it's finished, remove battery, unplug Nov 24 13:34:05 repeat with COMBINED Nov 24 13:34:40 as in Nov 24 13:34:44 start flasher, hold 'u', plug in, hold 'u', insert battery, still hold 'u' Nov 24 13:34:46 With or without -R? Nov 24 13:35:04 that's irrelevant for second flashing Nov 24 13:35:08 Ok Nov 24 13:35:31 Its flashing Nov 24 13:35:34 with -R it shall try to boot your new system after flashing of COMBINED finished Nov 24 13:35:44 without, you have to do that Nov 24 13:36:12 Well, fingers crossed Nov 24 13:37:10 Ok, done. Pull battery now? Nov 24 13:37:17 Need to restart it. Nov 24 13:37:22 if you had no -R then yes Nov 24 13:37:46 Still no power-on LED... thats not good. Nov 24 13:38:21 No-go. I think we're looking at dead hardware. Nov 24 13:38:44 yes. sorry for you Nov 24 13:38:49 The Nokia logo comes on, bright screen... hangs for about 15 seconds, then the backlight goes out, the logo fades to nothing, wiuth a few stripes... Nov 24 13:39:00 Oh well. Off to the voda store I go! (Again) Nov 24 13:39:29 Luckily, nothing of value apart from some random notes were lost. Nov 24 13:39:36 I shall return anon! Nov 24 13:39:46 the first boot takes quite some time. it's dark screen during some 10 seconds Nov 24 13:39:54 don't power device down then Nov 24 13:40:40 but fading screen quite looks like borked hw Nov 24 13:41:40 can fremantle flasher flash fiasco and emmc image at the same time (flasher -F fiasco.bin -F emmc.bin -f)? Nov 24 13:41:54 not afaik Nov 24 13:42:09 but would be both reasonable and cool Nov 24 13:42:24 maybe nobody ever tried Nov 24 13:42:32 that works with harmattan flasher Nov 24 13:43:00 harmattan flasher o.O Nov 24 13:44:05 atleast flasher help states that -f should "load and flash all supplied images" Nov 24 13:44:24 if you flash harmattan on a fremantle device - will you need fremantle or harmattan flasher for that? Nov 24 13:45:14 no comment Nov 24 13:46:13 fremantle flasher does not have the nice howto feature that tells you how to do stuff Nov 24 13:47:08 it comes with README though Nov 24 13:50:10 too bad i dont have device to test flashing fiasco and emmc at the same time, dont wanna flash my own n900 :P Nov 24 13:50:18 Moo all Nov 24 13:50:33 Doc: What is this harmattan talk about? Nov 24 13:50:45 Is it what I think it is? Nov 24 13:50:52 RST38h: good question Nov 24 13:51:26 RST38h: just read last 4 posts of Kaadlajk Nov 24 13:51:41 I don't know more than that either Nov 24 13:52:02 5 actually Nov 24 13:52:38 Doc: There are probably black helicopters heading for his location right now Nov 24 13:52:47 hehe Nov 24 13:54:02 Kaadlajk: (dont wanna flash my own n900 :P) sissi :-P Nov 24 13:58:12 jr@halley:~> /home/jr/Documents/N900/maemo5.0-flashing/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.4.5.3_beta/flasher-3.5 -F /home/jr/Documents/N900/maemo5.0-flashing/images/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -F /home/jr/Documents/N900/maemo5.0-flashing/images/RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f Nov 24 13:58:13 flasher v2.4.5 (Jun 25 2009) Nov 24 13:58:15 Image 'mmc', size 262089728 bytes Nov 24 13:58:16 Version RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA Nov 24 13:58:18 Specify only one FIASCO image. Nov 24 13:58:46 :-( Nov 24 13:59:03 for-loop then ;-P Nov 24 13:59:47 won't work as flasher doesn't know how to resume after a flashing without -R Nov 24 14:00:10 seems NOLO needs a new connect and bootup to start another flashing session Nov 24 14:01:41 does anyone know what needs to be restarted if the messaging stops working? every once in a while when looking at the SMS conversations, the conversation is not shown and if a new message is sent, the status is not updated (although it seems that the message is sent in the background) Nov 24 14:02:13 restart repairs it, but I was wondering if there is a service that could just be restarted from the xterm.. Nov 24 14:03:19 probably there is but that's rather obscure (at least to me) Nov 24 14:03:48 I need something to validate my NMEA data :/ Nov 24 14:04:00 Can't be bothered to write my own :( Nov 24 14:06:07 alterego: I bet there are official tools for that, probably written in pearl Nov 24 14:08:11 * ShadowJK wonders if wlan roaming is supposed to work if you just set two APs to same ssid Nov 24 14:09:02 It 'kinda' works already when they have different ssid, except that browser and stuff iss told by maemo to disconnect Nov 24 14:14:02 ShadowJK: yes, afaik thats how multi-AP wlan handover is supposed to be configured and work. Probably the APs need to support that, by sharing credentials/dhcp etc Nov 24 14:26:04 * crashanddie just made Product Manager Nov 24 14:26:14 :) Nov 24 14:32:14 khertan_: ping Nov 24 14:33:30 crashanddie: Promotion or ... ? :) Nov 24 14:33:42 looks like it Nov 24 14:34:12 Congrats, so no coder anymore? Nov 24 14:34:23 after just 3-4 months in the company. i think this is my fastest promotion yet. not official yet though, have to work out what'll happen in the next 10 days Nov 24 14:34:51 well, i'm guessing i'll be wearing a dual hat. PM at some times, dev at others Nov 24 14:35:05 Now we only need to find out if that says something about you or about the company :D Nov 24 14:35:47 maybe they're really desperate and I'm a really good poser? Nov 24 14:36:08 From your POV that doesn't matter. Nov 24 14:39:18 hm... installing stuff from SDK repo takes lots of rootfs space :( Nov 24 14:42:01 "A small but significant slip of the tongue had Canada's industry minister pleading for "more Canadian sex stories" on Monday, although he quickly insisted he was actually talking about success." Nov 24 14:42:01 X-Fade: it does, a lil bit. As when they are desparate they are likely to expect the impossible Nov 24 14:42:48 haha Nov 24 14:43:30 "Teased by reporters about the slip, Clement insisted he had not been thinking about sex. "The male brain is a very strange organ at times, isn't it? I have no explanation," he said." Nov 24 14:43:45 interesting choice of words... "organ" Nov 24 14:44:00 hmm, what else? Nov 24 14:45:19 the whole statement "strange organ" is bewildering. I'd more put it like "the male brain sometimes works in strange obscure ways" Nov 24 14:46:26 he was distancing himself from responsibility Nov 24 14:46:31 "it wasn't me, it was my organ" Nov 24 14:46:40 lol Nov 24 14:46:46 is there actually no way to select text in microb? Nov 24 14:47:05 look, this is me, and that over there is my brain XP Nov 24 14:48:08 Venemo_N900: swipe from left to right at the left side of the screen and press the button that appears Nov 24 14:48:10 I usually tend to claim me==my-brain, and maybe would s/brain/body" in above sentence Nov 24 14:49:13 alterego: oh, crap... I meant modest Nov 24 14:49:20 Heh Nov 24 14:49:27 ~seen khertan_ Nov 24 14:49:37 khertan_ is currently on #maemo (7h 32m 18s) #meego (7h 32m 18s), last said: 'i must go on ... going to office. Bye'. Nov 24 14:49:39 in modest, seems no Nov 24 14:49:58 that's what I thought Nov 24 14:50:03 modest is so... modest Nov 24 14:50:17 ~seen Khertan Nov 24 14:50:18 khertan <~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-95-72.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 15d 6h 29m 54s ago, saying: 'oups wrong windows'. Nov 24 14:58:08 Venemo_N900, twitter him Nov 24 15:00:13 I don't use twitter Nov 24 15:00:45 I have an account, but have not used it ever and dnno how to :D Nov 24 15:01:04 what's wrong with khertan_ ? Nov 24 15:01:23 DocScrutinizer: he is not here. Nov 24 15:01:32 ?? Nov 24 15:01:37 or he just refuses to answer Nov 24 15:01:59 last said: 'i must go on ... going to office. Bye'. Nov 24 15:02:19 oh, yeah Nov 24 15:02:51 DocScrutinizer, "shit" is the word you're looking for. Nov 24 15:03:15 ~dict modest Nov 24 15:03:19 Dictionary 'modest' (2 of 10): free from pomp or affectation; "comfortable but modest cottages"; "a simple rectangular brick building"; "a simple man with simple tastes" ;; not large but sufficient in size or amount; "a modest salary"; "modest inflation"; "helped in my own small way" . Nov 24 15:04:45 ~modest is now known as shit Nov 24 15:04:45 DocScrutinizer: please, watch your language. Nov 24 15:04:56 eeek Nov 24 15:04:59 busted Nov 24 15:05:02 *modest is now known as shit Nov 24 15:05:14 ~modest Nov 24 15:05:23 pupnik: your stuff arrive yet? Nov 24 15:05:23 k Nov 24 15:05:35 ~modest is shit Nov 24 15:05:35 GAN900: please, watch your language. Nov 24 15:05:37 Well, at least one program seems to understand my NMEA stuff. Nov 24 15:05:40 ~modest is s h i t Nov 24 15:05:40 okay, GAN900 Nov 24 15:05:48 hehe Nov 24 15:05:49 But everything accepts serial and I'm streaming over TCP :/ Nov 24 15:06:15 I'll disconnect from the uni's wifi Nov 24 15:06:19 socat FTW Nov 24 15:06:20 so goodbye guys Nov 24 15:06:47 where is he going? Nov 24 15:08:44 alterego: though honestly a program that expects NMEA via /dev/tty* is thoroughly fubar and needs some patching Nov 24 15:10:02 alterego: socat + pty should do the trick, no? Nov 24 15:10:39 DocScrutinizer: trying now Nov 24 15:11:12 DocScrutinizer: looks like it works :D Nov 24 15:11:17 hehe Nov 24 15:11:46 * DocScrutinizer puts on hanibal hat: "I love it when a plan works" Nov 24 15:12:56 nidO: when was it sent? Nov 24 15:13:10 Anyone got any reocmmendations for a desktop GPS ui that displays most info? Nov 24 15:13:29 pupnik: havent spoken to my sis in law since she got back but she flew back thursday, would assume she prolly got to the post office at the weekend Nov 24 15:13:50 alterego, its rare that desktops focus on gps apps :P Nov 24 15:14:03 since you know where they are and the machines are usually indoors anyway Nov 24 15:14:13 alterego: gpsd? :) Nov 24 15:14:28 lcuk: more and more laptops cme with GPS built in Nov 24 15:14:55 DocScrutinizer, I know this ;) Nov 24 15:15:00 Well, I convinced the guy at the Voda store it was FUBAR. Nov 24 15:15:07 he asked about desktops tho :P Nov 24 15:15:10 I used to have gps connected with bluetooth Nov 24 15:15:46 Powered it up, showed him the process, explained politely that no, he didnt actually need to get the laptop to update the software as I'd already tried it, and voila... I'll get a new one in a few days time. Nov 24 15:16:16 hmm, why not let him try update? Nov 24 15:16:51 then go "thanks for confirming my findings" Nov 24 15:16:57 is it possible to desolder the N900's RAM and solder 512MBs? Nov 24 15:17:04 HAHAHA Nov 24 15:17:10 yes Nov 24 15:17:26 if you find a proper matching POP lice Nov 24 15:17:28 slicew Nov 24 15:17:29 without size issues? Nov 24 15:17:32 bah Nov 24 15:17:42 well, Beagleboard? Nov 24 15:17:48 Depends on how much memory the controller in the A8 can handle. Nov 24 15:17:58 you may swap the whole SoC Nov 24 15:18:04 it can handle 512, sure of that Nov 24 15:18:27 Go for it. Then take pictures of the incinerated motherboard as a warning for others not to try it. Nov 24 15:18:39 ;.P Nov 24 15:18:53 You'd ideally need a hot-air rework station, unless they're BGA? Nov 24 15:19:07 sure BGA Nov 24 15:19:09 alterego: are you trying to find out whether those contrail at nevada coast were indeed Chinese rocket? ;-) GPS signal supposedly carries information on detected ballistic missile launches ... Nov 24 15:19:12 I never really looked at the RAM when I was poking the internals. Nov 24 15:19:22 Hahah Nov 24 15:19:33 gpsman seems to be happy .. Nov 24 15:20:15 This makes me want to port Columbus to the desktop though Nov 24 15:20:21 And I've already made provisions to do so. Nov 24 15:20:25 nidO: thanks i'll check the mailbox for a note Nov 24 15:20:39 I wanted to have the app running on my laptop and my N900 and them both showing the same data from my N900s GPS :D Nov 24 15:20:40 hell! whenever I hear/read *man, I think 'fap*' Nov 24 15:20:43 alterego: do you know QLandkarte (GT/M/...) Nov 24 15:20:53 Nope Nov 24 15:21:13 alterego: that has a brainstrom item Nov 24 15:21:26 it's similar to garmin's mapsource. Not gps debugging tool, though Nov 24 15:21:28 alterego: or kind of Nov 24 15:21:30 chem|st: what does? Nov 24 15:21:48 hey, anyone here familiar w/ using ms office communicator from an n900? Nov 24 15:21:57 i have the butterfly msn protocol installed Nov 24 15:22:02 alterego: exporting the GPS-data to a client Nov 24 15:22:06 but i can't figure out if that's what i'm supposed to use Nov 24 15:22:29 chem|st: my app does it :) Via UDP unicast or TCP client or server configurations, as well as bluetooth Nov 24 15:22:41 alterego: people were like "oh that's so simple to do" but noone ever put a hand on it Nov 24 15:22:42 timeless_mbp: Windows Mobile 7, if you ask Microsoft :-) Nov 24 15:22:44 chem|st: live streaming of NMEA telemetry that is. Nov 24 15:22:50 thanks Nov 24 15:22:56 alterego: exactly Nov 24 15:22:58 does it install on n900s? Nov 24 15:23:01 * timeless_mbp would try it Nov 24 15:23:04 MohammadAG: soldering SoC in proper machinery on a prototype number of board gave us 60% yield Nov 24 15:23:16 timeless_mbp: yes, it's written for N900, but I'm going to sell it sorry :( Nov 24 15:23:21 MohammadAG: so have fun with doing that by hand Nov 24 15:23:23 alterego: does it bundle as GPS-mouse via bt or so? Nov 24 15:23:30 alterego: how much? Nov 24 15:23:34 chem|st: yeah Nov 24 15:23:46 timeless_mbp: not decided yet, probably 3 or 4 euro Nov 24 15:23:57 alterego: so it does not nead a special program but any gps-aware program?! Nov 24 15:24:03 alterego: do you take paypal? Nov 24 15:24:10 * timeless_mbp wants it w/in the next 30mins Nov 24 15:24:22 timeless_mbp: that will be the prefered payment method yes, wait for my 1.0 release, should be within the next week. Nov 24 15:24:26 Hahah Nov 24 15:24:30 * jacekowski makes a phone call to inland revenue Nov 24 15:24:35 bluetooth is a bit glitchy at the moment. Nov 24 15:24:43 Bluetooth? Nov 24 15:24:44 I'm ironing out the creases. Nov 24 15:24:57 alterego: all i want is ms office communicator support Nov 24 15:25:02 timeless_mbp: it exports a bluetooth serial port too, so you can use it as a bluetooth GPS Nov 24 15:25:02 i don't need bluetooth .. i think Nov 24 15:25:12 timeless_mbp: what is it? Nov 24 15:25:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Lync i guess? Nov 24 15:25:39 hmm, microsoft IM? Nov 24 15:26:29 alterego: please tell me how your OVI enterprise will turn out, once it's settled Nov 24 15:26:47 chem|st: that's the idea. It has a UI similar to handheld GPS' and added logging/streaming capabilities. Nov 24 15:27:01 trip statistics and so on. Nov 24 15:27:34 alterego: also I'd happily discuss IMEI lock schemes with you Nov 24 15:27:56 DocScrutinizer: yeah, I'll be wanting to work on that once this is done. Nov 24 15:28:06 and i'll happily create keygens/cracks for them Nov 24 15:28:19 jacekowski: wont work like that, it's a device lock. Nov 24 15:28:33 So I'll distribute a unique package for a specific N900 Nov 24 15:28:46 alterego: do you mind to strap down to a streamer-only for extras some day? Nov 24 15:28:47 alterego: exactly Nov 24 15:29:09 alterego: there is always way around it Nov 24 15:29:16 alterego: like global LD_PRELOAD Nov 24 15:29:23 jacekowski: no dount, nothing is 100% foolproof. Nov 24 15:29:23 alterego: and lib faking imei Nov 24 15:29:27 But that's not the point. Nov 24 15:29:28 alterego: there's concepts to sour the milk for jacekowski Nov 24 15:29:31 ~doubt Nov 24 15:29:32 well, doubt is When in doubt, cafuego is always right. Nov 24 15:30:04 alterego: that will piss off all people who get a replacement device Nov 24 15:30:17 alterego, why bother with the lock? Nov 24 15:30:34 chem|st: not more than with paid mp3 downloads Nov 24 15:30:43 chem|st: obviously I'm happy to distribute new versions for people that have replacements etc. Nov 24 15:30:48 Seems like it'd be less obnoxious to take to small piracy hit and just rely on most people's good nature. Nov 24 15:30:51 alterego: sure Nov 24 15:30:52 Through Ovi? Nov 24 15:30:57 GAN900: because there's jacekowski threating it Nov 24 15:31:00 Nothing is 100% foolproof. I'm the fool that manages to break it regardless. Nov 24 15:31:17 GAN900: because I'm jobless and need the money :P Nov 24 15:31:27 And Ovi takes 40% Nov 24 15:31:31 i'm beginning to think that this phone (n900) is beyond me Nov 24 15:31:42 alterego, so, what about the people who now wont buy it because of the protection scheme? Nov 24 15:31:52 alterego, then get a job you useless bum Nov 24 15:31:55 GAN900: Like you? Nov 24 15:32:05 GAN900: who cares about those? Nov 24 15:32:17 Frankly, I think that impact really ind of negates the likelihood of pirates largely affecting sales. Nov 24 15:32:24 * GAN900 shrugs Nov 24 15:32:29 alterego: so columbus will be released soon, but it is the garminGPS like only yet? what about the offline-navigation solution you talked about? Nov 24 15:32:50 Other things aside, DRM-type stuff generally turns me off of software. Nov 24 15:33:35 chem|st: I am working on a playback feature, which allows you to run through logged data, is that what you mean? Nov 24 15:33:56 chem|st: it only uses the internet if you tell it to stream over it, and AGPS Nov 24 15:34:05 alterego: wasn't you then asking few days ago for a offline-routing software source Nov 24 15:34:17 No, that was someone else :P Nov 24 15:34:29 guys, I'm a noob Nov 24 15:34:44 I made a c hello world Nov 24 15:34:49 awsum Nov 24 15:34:55 Now make a C Spot Run. Nov 24 15:34:59 I did 'gcc first.c -o myfirst' Nov 24 15:35:13 then 'chmod +x myfirst' Nov 24 15:35:14 GAN900: there's always a huge number of hobby pirates, so if you want to earn money from a relatively expensive lower target user base app, you need proper protection Nov 24 15:35:22 of any kind Nov 24 15:35:29 then './myfirst' said permision denied Nov 24 15:35:36 Venemo_N900: mydocs? Nov 24 15:35:38 all this on the N900 Nov 24 15:35:43 kerio: yeah Nov 24 15:35:44 vfat sucks Nov 24 15:35:46 oh crap Nov 24 15:35:47 I'm not sure most of those people are likely to pay if you do. Nov 24 15:35:50 it's also mounted noexec, afaik Nov 24 15:35:54 you are right kerio Nov 24 15:35:59 yes, i am Nov 24 15:36:01 kerute: thx Nov 24 15:36:06 kerio: thx Nov 24 15:36:07 alterego: but thats then a $1 item?! or how much will it be? Nov 24 15:36:29 GAN900: who gives a fuck about people that won't pay either way? Nov 24 15:36:57 chem|st: like I said, 3 or 4 euros most likely. Nov 24 15:37:06 alterego: ah over read that Nov 24 15:37:07 Normal mobile rip off prices. Nov 24 15:37:28 DocScrutinizer, point being, I don't think the protection is likely to increase the number of paying people very much. Nov 24 15:37:59 GAN900: my experience is different Nov 24 15:38:13 alterego: well I know about a few guys who funded a startup with a realy good 1eur app, have now 4 employees... Nov 24 15:38:40 GAN900: probably not, we'll see :P Nov 24 15:38:44 GAN900: a lot of peple won't pay if there's a pirated version on torrent, that has same functionality Nov 24 15:40:05 GAN900: you can't stop the pirated version, see jacekowski - but there are methods to make it less attractive to users Nov 24 15:40:21 DocScrutinizer: you will get more money out of it if open-source and a donation drive or high-level protection compared to torrented Nov 24 15:41:09 chem|st: tell me about one donation driven FOSS project Nov 24 15:42:01 my reposts vary from "nothing in years" to "$80.50 after 6 months" Nov 24 15:42:06 chem|st: donations don't work tbh .. Nov 24 15:42:08 reports Nov 24 15:42:17 alterego: no they don't Nov 24 15:42:23 I've had 0 donations for my crappy app in extras :) Nov 24 15:42:30 alterego, purchases does, however Nov 24 15:42:40 alterego, without the need for DRM Nov 24 15:42:40 crashanddie: exactly :) Nov 24 15:42:50 I'm not using DRM Nov 24 15:43:06 that's a simple activation scheme Nov 24 15:43:24 which will need additional unrelated measures to take full effect Nov 24 15:43:31 alterego, in my previous company, all the products, most of whom were sold for an average contract price of 800k USD didn't have any license keys or rights management Nov 24 15:43:33 Seriously though, it's not like I'm going to be unreasonible, I'm not saying 1 copy per N900. Nov 24 15:43:41 I'll give a user as many copies as they have N900s Nov 24 15:43:51 It's just an insurance policy. Nov 24 15:44:09 crashanddie: that's business grade contracts - a completely different domain Nov 24 15:44:09 Then just give it the ability to activate from demo to full Nov 24 15:44:09 crashanddie: when you're selling for that amount you don't need to. Nov 24 15:44:28 without the ability to "cancel" a key Nov 24 15:44:39 That'd be even easier for javispeado to crack :P Nov 24 15:44:41 in other words, it only dials out upon activation, never afterwards Nov 24 15:44:52 I'm not having any dial home in my apps. Nov 24 15:45:10 ok, i'll admit, I have no idea what you're doing Nov 24 15:45:15 That's the point of signing the package with a phones' IMEI Nov 24 15:45:16 please explain? Nov 24 15:45:35 Basically, someone orders, they give me their IMEI, I create a custom package for them and distribute it. Nov 24 15:45:51 That package has in it a mechanism that stops it running when on a device that doesn't have a matching IMEI Nov 24 15:45:56 DocScrutinizer: there are people that pirate for fun Nov 24 15:46:05 alterego: I'm not doing fancy giving anyone my IMEI Nov 24 15:46:06 DocScrutinizer: and there are people that just crack protections for fun Nov 24 15:46:08 I know, jacekowski Nov 24 15:46:19 alterego, you really believe people are going to give you their IMEI? Nov 24 15:46:33 crashanddie: I don't know, we'll see :P Nov 24 15:46:37 alterego, people are scared of giving their IP address on the web Nov 24 15:46:40 let alone an IMEA Nov 24 15:46:48 alterego: IMEI's are on the hunt for china as they produce their jacker devices with stolen IMEIs Nov 24 15:46:50 "OMG, HE'S GOING TO COPY MY SIMCARD" Nov 24 15:46:57 Heh Nov 24 15:46:58 crashanddie: well, there are other option Nov 24 15:46:59 yeah, IMEI is a tad tough to give out for most people Nov 24 15:47:00 jacekowski: and your best bet to beat those is to be 2 weeks ahead of them, with free upgrades etc Nov 24 15:47:01 s Nov 24 15:47:16 Well, there are other options, IMEI seemed the most sensible. Nov 24 15:47:22 it's definitely not Nov 24 15:47:22 WLAN MAC or BT BDADDr Nov 24 15:47:29 alterego: activation will be a lot better ida Nov 24 15:47:32 idea Nov 24 15:47:34 well, WLAN MAC is dangerous, cuz it's easily changeable Nov 24 15:47:35 alterego: much better Nov 24 15:47:39 chem|st: nobody with a clear understanding of IMEI will give a fuck Nov 24 15:47:45 about stolen IMEI Nov 24 15:47:53 DocScrutinizer, which makes it even more dangerous Nov 24 15:47:55 3597261994747725 Nov 24 15:48:01 Heh, probably. Nov 24 15:48:06 alterego: with good vm you can have it really secure Nov 24 15:48:10 ^^see I stole somebodies IMEI Nov 24 15:48:26 but does that belong to an N900? Nov 24 15:48:31 YOu evildoer! Nov 24 15:48:37 jacekowski: you mean an activation that locks itself to an IMEI? :) Nov 24 15:48:37 who cares? Nov 24 15:48:40 DocScrutinizer: well, as long as no terrorist used it in a plane hijack mood Nov 24 15:48:50 pffft Nov 24 15:48:56 May the German TSA molest you for the rest of your life! Nov 24 15:48:57 =) Nov 24 15:49:02 I suppose I could come up with an activation strategy. Nov 24 15:49:04 what if I buy your app once Nov 24 15:49:10 then ask for 200 keys? Nov 24 15:49:16 alterego: yes, running in VM like themida Nov 24 15:49:17 crashanddie: I'll tell you to piss off :P Nov 24 15:49:20 what if I buy your app, and ask you for a key Nov 24 15:49:24 and you're in the hospital? Nov 24 15:49:33 crash: You will be told to fuck off after first 3, 1 if you do not ask nicely Nov 24 15:49:35 crashanddie: gutted :P Nov 24 15:49:43 alterego: randomly generated vm with random instruction set running most important parts of protection Nov 24 15:49:43 crashanddie: I was going to automate it :P Nov 24 15:49:52 alterego: + self debugging Nov 24 15:49:55 crash: Basically, when you buy an app, you buy it for a certain device Nov 24 15:50:01 alterego: + nanomites Nov 24 15:50:05 Heh Nov 24 15:50:10 crash: He is not obliged to give you any more keys Nov 24 15:50:11 RST38h, no, he said it was for any device I owned Nov 24 15:50:21 crash: Then he is fucked. Nov 24 15:50:30 crash:Really bad promise to make. Nov 24 15:50:35 crashanddie: IMEA would be GeoCoord ;-b Nov 24 15:50:37 crashanddie: I haven't decided :P Nov 24 15:50:38 [16:36:16] Seriously though, it's not like I'm going to be unreasonible, I'm not saying 1 copy per N900. Nov 24 15:50:53 jacekowski: nobody will mind if you crack last months version, even torrent it Nov 24 15:50:55 timeless_mbp, i know, typo... too used to typing "EMEA" rather than "IMEI" Nov 24 15:51:02 users wnat new clean stuff Nov 24 15:51:17 alterego, if your app is worth it Nov 24 15:51:21 thing is that with only imei lock you can torrent it in minutes Nov 24 15:51:26 alterego, it won't matter how good or bad the copy protection is Nov 24 15:51:29 and have generic LD_PRELOAD based stuff Nov 24 15:51:36 the few users willing to settle with an old cracked version are negligable Nov 24 15:51:43 alterego, those who'll want to crack it will, and those who want to pay for it will Nov 24 15:51:54 alterego, it's your job to make it so that people are more inclined into paying than cracking Nov 24 15:52:04 alterego, and the wrong answer to that problem is "let's make the cracking harder" Nov 24 15:52:11 Heh Nov 24 15:52:18 crashanddie: it is part of answer Nov 24 15:52:32 alterego: the harder it is to crack more freaks are after it Nov 24 15:52:35 crashanddie: exactly Nov 24 15:52:43 * alterego sighs Nov 24 15:52:51 or the more freaky are the freaks Nov 24 15:52:51 chem|st: exactly Nov 24 15:52:59 I just want to make a bit of money for Christmas :( Nov 24 15:53:08 do you know that most people will give up as soon as they see r0 stuff Nov 24 15:53:13 alterego: lift your pant leg on the street corner then Nov 24 15:53:22 alterego, just add online route computation and tie it to an account :P Problem solved. Nov 24 15:53:23 Heh Nov 24 15:53:48 I'm not selling another tom tom style sat nav solution. Nov 24 15:53:54 alterego: most people will pay for a 1eur app but will think twice for 4eur Nov 24 15:53:57 jacekowski: it's not about hard to crack stuff, it's all about users are interested in least hassle to use things they want Nov 24 15:54:15 DocScrutinizer: agreed Nov 24 15:54:15 DocScrutinizer: yeah, but you have couple factors Nov 24 15:54:29 usually you don't use cracked stuff because you don't want to pay, you simply use it because it's such a hassle to pay Nov 24 15:54:48 DocScrutinizer: how much it costs, how old is torrent version, how much they want features from later version, how much hassle is it Nov 24 15:55:03 yep Nov 24 15:55:06 DocScrutinizer: if you sell something for 1eur most will buy it Nov 24 15:55:11 al things easy to handle Nov 24 15:55:14 if you sell it for 100eur Nov 24 15:55:24 then more people will think about pirating it Nov 24 15:55:26 chem|st, actually, I did a simulation for the company with random people in the street about how much they'd spend on random apps. I was pretty sure that more people would pay 1euro * 30 for different apps rather than 25euros * 1 for 30 different apps, turns out I was wrong. It's about perceived value, not actual spending. The iTunes numbers reflect this. Nov 24 15:55:52 crashanddie: that's about right Nov 24 15:56:00 hey... Nov 24 15:56:05 i personally don't have problem with spending 5 quid on something Nov 24 15:56:07 hey timeless_mbp Nov 24 15:56:08 there's a pidgin=>presence bridge? Nov 24 15:56:13 * timeless_mbp installs Nov 24 15:56:14 crashanddie: once again about hassle of paying Nov 24 15:56:20 but as soon as it gets more expensive more thought goes into it Nov 24 15:56:51 jacekowski: only *if* you have *no* problems Nov 24 15:57:29 I have problems paying 5 ct when only paying method is paypal or credit card Nov 24 15:57:44 why you have problem with paypal Nov 24 15:57:45 DocScrutinizer: because? Nov 24 15:57:47 ergo I look for a cracked version Nov 24 15:57:59 DocScrutinizer, that's because you're a cheap german bastard :P Nov 24 15:58:00 it's one of easiest and fastest ways of paying Nov 24 15:58:10 timeless_mbp: because: I don't have either of them Nov 24 15:58:29 DocScrutinizer: ??? Nov 24 15:58:33 you dont need a paypal account to pay a business using paypal Nov 24 15:58:38 you don't have a credit card? Nov 24 15:58:43 jacekowski: paypal is one of the most ass raping ripoffs Nov 24 15:58:47 you can pay it via credit or debit card through them Nov 24 15:58:52 DocScrutinizer: do you know that most places where it says credit card you can use debit card as well Nov 24 15:59:02 Yeah .. Nov 24 15:59:06 DocScrutinizer: i used paypal for my downpayment on my Apt Nov 24 15:59:07 I've only got a debit card/ Nov 24 15:59:12 DocScrutinizer, rarely for you honestly Nov 24 15:59:22 alterego: credit cards include debit cards Nov 24 15:59:26 paypal + co don't care Nov 24 15:59:39 heck, you can send money into paypal using IBAN Nov 24 15:59:41 timeless_mbp: I know, I've never had a problem ordering stuff through paypal. Nov 24 15:59:56 but no, i don't think PayPal accepts money mule, sorry :) Nov 24 16:00:09 hell, you can get your paypal account locked for no reason, and just piss off Nov 24 16:00:20 DocScrutinizer, for the regular company using paypal, their costs for paypal are roughly equivalent to those they have for using credit card whatever, so the final cost to consumer is really the same (you wouldn't see a price difference in the products if they're using one or the other) Nov 24 16:00:27 DocScrutinizer: lots of strange things can happen Nov 24 16:00:31 that doesn't mean they happen often Nov 24 16:00:34 timeless_mbp, only in specific countries Nov 24 16:00:37 esp with paypal, yes Nov 24 16:00:41 you *can* get hit by lightning bolts twice Nov 24 16:00:44 crashanddie: well, not if you are doing only debit cards Nov 24 16:00:48 haha Nov 24 16:00:50 crashanddie: where it's free for everybody Nov 24 16:00:57 paypal? fuckoff Nov 24 16:00:57 jacekowski, it ain't Nov 24 16:01:09 jacekowski, I just sent money to GAN, using a debit card, I had to pay Nov 24 16:01:17 jacekowski, about 2% of total amount Nov 24 16:01:19 yeah, paypal Nov 24 16:01:20 I could do a tmo vote thread Nov 24 16:01:23 but that's me and shouldn't bother you Nov 24 16:01:26 but if you buy something in a shop Nov 24 16:01:33 I know most users have paypal Nov 24 16:01:35 Stick up some screenshots and feature list and ask people to vote on how much they'd pay for it ;) Nov 24 16:01:36 they don't pay anything for you using debit card Nov 24 16:01:43 jacekowski, erhm, no, it really depends on the country and card type Nov 24 16:01:51 but with credit cards they pay like 2-5% Nov 24 16:02:05 in the UK most merchants have a fixed fee for accepting a debit card payment Nov 24 16:02:09 jacekowski, in France, there's nearly only debit card, and most companies will rack up 8-12% of costs in card transactions Nov 24 16:02:12 and a % for a credit card Nov 24 16:02:56 crashanddie: here in uk companies get card terminal for free with business account Nov 24 16:03:16 yeah, but that's because in the UK, a cheque is nearly impossible to find Nov 24 16:03:27 not really Nov 24 16:03:28 in France, cheques are free and everyone uses them Nov 24 16:03:30 absolute nightmare Nov 24 16:03:31 cheques are quite popular Nov 24 16:03:33 and free Nov 24 16:03:40 i mean not very popular Nov 24 16:03:41 This conversation is getting deperessing. Nov 24 16:03:43 in the UK? I had to pay 4 quid per cheque Nov 24 16:03:48 with HSBC Nov 24 16:03:49 i have it free Nov 24 16:03:52 with lloyds Nov 24 16:04:10 I've never seen anyone pay by cheque in tesco's or sainsburry's Nov 24 16:04:29 thats because it's an obscene amount of hassle compared to plugging a debit card into a machine Nov 24 16:04:50 crashanddie: yeah, cards are easier to use Nov 24 16:04:51 cheques are perfectly common other places though, my girlfriend's a solicitor and the large majority of the money they get in is via cheque Nov 24 16:04:58 alterego: go for OVI or paypal or whatever you like, and make a simple activation sheme locking app to IMEI (or any other device unique property, I have another few for you) Nov 24 16:05:02 A day doesn't pass in France without seeing an old lady or someone paying by cheque, at least once a day. Then give their ID, then sign, then validate the amount that was written to the cheque, etc... Nov 24 16:05:14 alterego: no need to feel depressed by this debate Nov 24 16:05:20 crashanddie: yeah, cards are easier to use Nov 24 16:05:24 jacekowski, defo :P Nov 24 16:05:28 stick it into terminal Nov 24 16:05:30 type pin Nov 24 16:05:37 DocScrutinizer, Ovi is shit Nov 24 16:05:37 have pin seen by 15 people Nov 24 16:05:39 find out that you are over limit Nov 24 16:05:42 utter bullshit Nov 24 16:05:44 DocScrutinizer: I don't think Ovi allows activation schemes. Nov 24 16:05:49 nidO: so Nov 24 16:05:51 yep Nov 24 16:05:54 nidO: not your problem Nov 24 16:05:58 And only 60% of sale goes to me :) Nov 24 16:06:23 nidO: when somebody uses your card with your pin then only bank looses Nov 24 16:06:25 alterego, open your own store, make your own IMEI checking code, profit Nov 24 16:06:39 jacekowski: HAHAHA Nov 24 16:06:50 nidO: because legally bank was not supposed to accept that transaction because it wasn't you doing it Nov 24 16:06:56 MohammadAG: that's kind of where I'm heading at the moment ;) Nov 24 16:06:59 jacekowski: HAHAHA Nov 24 16:07:03 and they are required by law to return it Nov 24 16:07:06 jacekowski, actually, if the bank can prove that you disclosed the PIN to a third party, you're responsible for the loss Nov 24 16:07:15 jacekowski: maybe that's UK jusrisdiction Nov 24 16:07:17 only if you did it on purpose Nov 24 16:07:21 jacekowski, nope Nov 24 16:07:26 not here Nov 24 16:07:32 crashanddie having the pin seen without your knowledge isnt your problem though Nov 24 16:07:54 alterego, I get 70% for giving you the idea Nov 24 16:07:57 they still have to return that money Nov 24 16:08:02 nidO: sure, if you can *prove* it :-P Nov 24 16:08:05 and then they can take you to court for fraud Nov 24 16:08:19 but only after they returned everything Nov 24 16:08:25 haha Nov 24 16:08:27 not here Nov 24 16:08:35 jacekowski, I was a witness for CFS in a civil case against one of their customers, the customer lost. Nov 24 16:08:55 And that was in Manchester Nov 24 16:09:07 hmm, bad luck Nov 24 16:09:25 Completely Fair Scheduler? Nov 24 16:09:25 Heh Nov 24 16:09:36 but going back to pin being seen by lot of people Nov 24 16:09:39 what does it give you Nov 24 16:09:43 i mean Nov 24 16:09:49 if you see somebody elses pin Nov 24 16:09:52 you still need a card Nov 24 16:10:05 and there is loads of people there Nov 24 16:10:06 jacekowski: some years ago customer was even in pinch when he was able to prove he wasn't in spain but in letland the time his card copy was abused in spain Nov 24 16:10:11 that can be stolen or skimmed Nov 24 16:10:12 still, it defeats the entire purpose of pins existing Nov 24 16:10:12 you just need to copy the magnetic strip, copy it on a chipless card Nov 24 16:10:27 crashanddie: nope Nov 24 16:10:29 then you can use it in any cash point or sale point Nov 24 16:10:38 the whole point of replacing signiatures with pins was because a sig is easy to duplicate, but that still relied on having the card in the first place Nov 24 16:10:43 crashanddie: if strip says that it's chip&pin card Nov 24 16:10:50 crashanddie: terminal will try to talk to chip and fail Nov 24 16:10:54 jacekowski, nope Nov 24 16:10:57 crashanddie: and will just reject card Nov 24 16:11:01 nidO: that and clerks barely check signature. Nov 24 16:11:07 jacekowski: nope Nov 24 16:11:15 crashanddie: so why when i slide magnetic strip it request to insert chip Nov 24 16:11:20 I've regularly signed for stuff after getting my card back Nov 24 16:11:29 jacekowski, that's an EMV standard, go to italy, india, china, EMV isn't the most common standard Nov 24 16:11:34 we had issues with chip here last new year: hot fix: scotch tape patch over chip Nov 24 16:11:39 jacekowski, they'll read the strip, ask for PIN, validate transaction Nov 24 16:11:47 DocScrutinizer: i tried that Nov 24 16:12:00 alterego: they showed on TV here that you could get away with signing as different sex as well Nov 24 16:12:01 DocScrutinizer: all i got was an error Nov 24 16:12:08 UK merchants can still manually take payments from chip cards with a signiature though Nov 24 16:12:13 jacekowski, even the fecking expensive cash points in corner shops will let you get money from it Nov 24 16:12:24 crashanddie: do you know that pin is stored in magnetic strip? Nov 24 16:12:37 I did an awful signature the other day, because my hads were freezing :D Nov 24 16:12:44 jacekowski, again, depends on the technology Nov 24 16:12:46 it's "encrypted" but algo is well known Nov 24 16:13:00 and there is only 10k possible options Nov 24 16:13:08 jacekowski: again nope Nov 24 16:13:10 jacekowski, french visa/mastercard doesn't, there is no "one card" Nov 24 16:13:28 there is one standard for magnetic strip content Nov 24 16:13:34 otherwise it wouldn't work abroad Nov 24 16:13:44 right Nov 24 16:13:55 which is why some readers only understand mastercard, others only amex? Nov 24 16:13:59 like there's one standard for XML Nov 24 16:14:16 crashanddie: because of agreements between you and bank and card issuer Nov 24 16:14:42 it's like with roaming Nov 24 16:14:48 in country Nov 24 16:14:51 it's all gsm Nov 24 16:15:04 but you can only use your own carrier network Nov 24 16:15:10 not because of incompatibilities Nov 24 16:15:16 just because of business model Nov 24 16:15:19 well, that's authentication, not technology Nov 24 16:15:35 EMV Nov 24 16:15:38 bad analogy though, as gsm has different frequencies so relies on your phone having the right modem for the right frequencies of the area Nov 24 16:15:55 it stands for common format agreed between all card issuers Nov 24 16:15:56 or you might be somewhere douchebaggy that uses cdma instead of gsm Nov 24 16:16:10 jacekowski, nope Nov 24 16:16:22 jacekowski, france has CB (Carte Bleue), which is a heckuvalot older than EMV Nov 24 16:16:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_stripe_card#Financial_cards Nov 24 16:16:31 nid0: but that different problem. With a gsm phone you won't have problems in most of the europe Nov 24 16:16:41 There are up to three tracks on magnetic cards used for financial transactions, known as tracks 1, 2, and 3. Track 3 is virtually unused by the major worldwide networks such as VISA, and often isn't even physically present on the card by virtue of a narrower magnetic stripe. Point-of-sale card readers almost always read track 1, or track 2, and sometimes both, in case one track is unreadable. Nov 24 16:16:51 Track 1 is written with code known as DEC SIXBIT plus odd parity. The information on track 1 on financial cards is contained in several formats: A, which is reserved for proprietary use of the card issuer, B, which is described below, C-M, which are reserved for use by ANSI Subcommittee X3B10 and N-Z, which are available for use by individual card issuers: Nov 24 16:17:17 all well known common formats Nov 24 16:17:24 anyways Nov 24 16:17:28 i have stuff to do Nov 24 16:18:33 There MUST be some sort of reasonable open source PoS/Inventory Control system. . . . Nov 24 16:18:36 germany has Geldkarte, or whatever the name is, DocScrutinizer ? Belgium has Bankcontact, and even further than that, EMV is just a standard, and itself has vastly different and even INCOMPATIBLE implementations Nov 24 16:19:35 jacekowski, for example, IIRC (and it's been a while, so this may have changed), but I remember having to hack through a smartcard's firmware because we had to do a demo at the US DoD, and we only had Visa cards that wouldn't work on the Amex readers (VSCC vs AEPS or something) Nov 24 16:21:01 Thank you wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV#Application_selection <-- if the terminal is only aware of the amex application, it won't be able to query the right app ID from the card. Nov 24 16:21:01 GAN: isat "Piece of Shit" or "Point of Sales" ;-D Nov 24 16:22:43 GAN900, not that I'm aware of, but I could write one Nov 24 16:23:04 GAN900, give me a 50k a year salary, and I'll do just that. About 9 months of work should be enough to get the first PoC Nov 24 16:25:41 crashanddie: 50k seems low, do you require benefits? Nov 24 16:25:56 nha, my first job coverse that Nov 24 16:26:02 s/rse/rs/ Nov 24 16:26:02 or will you moonlight for the ... Nov 24 16:26:02 crashanddie meant: nha, my first job covers that Nov 24 16:28:04 timeless_mbp, oh, and not dollars, either ;) Nov 24 16:28:06 anyway Nov 24 16:28:13 I'm off, need to go buy presents for xmas Nov 24 16:28:15 later all Nov 24 16:29:00 cya Nov 24 16:29:39 crashanddie: what I'm talking about is MAESTRO and MASTERCARD Nov 24 16:30:29 Geldkarte is another weird concept for micropayment off the chip, with a hidden/shadow account running in parallel at your bank Nov 24 16:31:47 you store an amount of up to a few hundered bucks to Geldkarte, and it can take debits from any seller machine without PIN or any checkback at online Nov 24 16:34:54 crashanddie: hey Nov 24 16:35:03 the EUR is falling against the dollar Nov 24 16:35:19 you sure you don't want to hedge your bets and take dollars assuming the EUR will fall below? :) Nov 24 16:35:40 considering how cheap the dollar is I'd say that's intended Nov 24 16:36:00 GBP is also quite cheap in EUR right now Nov 24 16:37:30 I had never seen the USD touch .70 EUR before like it did not long ago Nov 24 16:38:37 US fed printing $$$ and blaming EU for not printing €€€ - haha Nov 24 16:38:40 crashanddie, no. Nov 24 16:40:18 more like us fed printing money and eu asking "wtf?" :P Nov 24 16:40:37 hello? USA? it's not our fault if nobody want to buy your export anymore Nov 24 16:40:57 * ieatlint cries Nov 24 16:41:22 DocScrutinizer: hrm, people aren't buying iPhone's or Android's anymore? Nov 24 16:41:27 i'll tell management Nov 24 16:41:49 heh, without us making the hardware, it doesn't bring in nearly as much Nov 24 16:41:49 haha, see "made in..." X-P Nov 24 16:42:14 at least not when it comes to the trade deficit Nov 24 16:42:20 timeless_mbp: that's your problem Nov 24 16:42:26 whichi? Nov 24 16:42:29 management? Nov 24 16:42:30 yes Nov 24 16:42:33 i know Nov 24 16:42:40 you think you're producing great stuff, but in fact you import it Nov 24 16:42:46 hrm Nov 24 16:42:51 no, we at Nokia have a strong NIH policy Nov 24 16:42:54 Cars and microprocessors! Nov 24 16:42:58 it's ok, we still embarrassed france with wine Nov 24 16:43:07 Hehehe Nov 24 16:43:19 DocScrutinizer: i'm not in .us, i'm in .fi/.eu Nov 24 16:43:21 Hooray for the New World taste. Nov 24 16:43:42 hmm, so s/your/USA's/ Nov 24 16:43:42 so did my country :D Nov 24 16:44:11 I'm in the .us, but I meant .pt :D Nov 24 16:44:36 this years contest had a cheap .pt wine win over very expensive .fr wines :D Nov 24 16:44:44 njsf: nice Nov 24 16:44:55 we've had that before too... it's mostly a joke Nov 24 16:45:01 $2 wine wins competition, etc Nov 24 16:47:03 oh, here's something we exported: crap food Nov 24 16:47:19 go enjoy a big mac and order a budweiser.. thanks to us, you can Nov 24 16:47:21 you're welcome Nov 24 16:47:42 i don't think america exports much beer Nov 24 16:47:54 or burgers, maccy d in the uk makes them here Nov 24 16:48:16 ieatlint: USA export? A weird notion about freedom and democracy, that's 'exported' to other countries Nov 24 16:48:37 DocScrutinizer: you live in germany, right? :P Nov 24 16:48:47 DocScrutinizer: and unix :) Nov 24 16:49:01 yeah, the only country where that export ever actually worked Nov 24 16:49:03 "Sim card registration failed" Nov 24 16:49:04 yay Nov 24 16:49:06 :( Nov 24 16:49:10 i really hope it's the sim itself Nov 24 16:49:11 the 'good enough' operating system Nov 24 16:49:38 DocScrutinizer: essentially, yes Nov 24 16:49:44 but then, our own democracy doesn't work Nov 24 16:49:47 so what did you expect Nov 24 16:49:58 was supposed to be a republic not a democracy ;) Nov 24 16:50:52 but the world ain't perfect Nov 24 16:53:54 so... it's not the sim Nov 24 16:53:59 what could've gone wrong in my n900? Nov 24 16:54:36 d-bus, phonet, libisi Nov 24 16:54:40 no idea Nov 24 16:55:25 Does the sim card work in any other phones? Nov 24 16:55:32 ShadowJK: yeah Nov 24 16:55:34 or you configured to store the PIN and don't ask for it, then changed it on the card Nov 24 16:55:41 I had something similar, turned out to be hw fault in n90p Nov 24 16:55:42 DocScrutinizer: not that Nov 24 16:55:58 i also seem to recall some people having issues with the pins making good contact with the card Nov 24 16:56:09 yep Nov 24 16:56:17 with suggestions of adding a piece of paper to the back of the sim card to push it against the pins Nov 24 16:56:39 suggested fix: carefully pull out and bend the contact springs a bit Nov 24 16:56:53 paper usually is BS Nov 24 16:57:46 didn't work for me. I think the board itself is broken, because there's a very specific point on my n900 I can press and cellmo crashes within 10 secs Nov 24 16:58:05 Just added a nice little feature, that when you lock the screen, it disables my apps screen keepalive routine. Nov 24 16:58:20 Then when you unlock it, it re-enables keep-alive :) Nov 24 16:58:23 DocScrutinizer, South Korea, Japan. Nov 24 16:58:35 ShadowJK: so don't press it! Nov 24 16:58:35 k Nov 24 16:58:36 :P Nov 24 16:59:04 though both are really fsck up Nov 24 16:59:39 funny how there are more people in #maemo than in #android Nov 24 17:00:03 even though there are substantially more android users than maemo users Nov 24 17:00:53 it's too cold here right now Nov 24 17:01:27 freezing here too :( Nov 24 17:01:40 kerio, well it happens randomly when it pocket Nov 24 17:01:54 wts case? Nov 24 17:01:55 kkal, contribution levels. Nov 24 17:02:13 kkal, most people who don't work for Google don't get to be involved in Android. Nov 24 17:02:23 >solid, innovative hardware and open, versatile software Nov 24 17:02:32 kkal, also, this channel is official. Nov 24 17:03:03 GAN900: in korea they got nazi blockwarts I heard which hunt down shop owners not charging for platic bags and people spitting floor, and japan never got the whole point of hire&fire at all, among other madness Nov 24 17:03:32 tried raising the contact pins a bit Nov 24 17:03:34 still failed Nov 24 17:03:35 GODDAMMIT Nov 24 17:04:13 if i have a sound problem which doesn't go away on reboot but does go away if i remove the battery, is there any possibility that it isn't a hardware problem? Nov 24 17:04:55 so... i guess it's time for nokia care huh Nov 24 17:04:57 BCMM: some codec using DSP lock up and occupying the audio Nov 24 17:05:00 maybe Nov 24 17:05:13 BCMM, sounds unlikely. But, if it's a hw problem, nokia care is wiping your data/install anyways, so you might as well try reflash Nov 24 17:05:29 and dont reinstall every app Nov 24 17:05:29 BCMM: there's a similar problem known for breakage of video playback Nov 24 17:05:37 DocScrutinizer: would breaking the DSP prevent *any* audio playing? Nov 24 17:05:46 dsp isn't used for audio Nov 24 17:05:46 BCMM: I dunno Nov 24 17:05:48 even things like flash, mplayer, aplay Nov 24 17:05:48 DocScrutinizer: we can also add the philippines to the list of "democracies" we set up Nov 24 17:06:05 ShadowJK: they don't accellerate mp3 playback? Nov 24 17:06:19 no Nov 24 17:06:22 no sound at all, not even in calls Nov 24 17:06:37 mplayer doesn't use dsp, at all Nov 24 17:06:40 i've had the DSP get in a stupid state before, and it isn't like that Nov 24 17:06:41 ShadowJK: i know Nov 24 17:06:57 also, pressing the volume keys doesn't make the OSD appear Nov 24 17:07:01 taht's the odd bit for me Nov 24 17:07:12 that only reason i still wonder if it's a software thing Nov 24 17:07:12 yeah.. Nov 24 17:07:18 anything in dmesg? Nov 24 17:07:46 that's odd, i have a feeling there wasn't, but now i think about it i don't actually remember checking Nov 24 17:07:48 that's stupid Nov 24 17:07:54 i'll check next time, thanks Nov 24 17:08:05 http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/ Nov 24 17:08:09 How often does it happen? Nov 24 17:08:19 for some bits bout codec usage and DSP Nov 24 17:09:18 so the DSP only does video? Nov 24 17:09:20 why? Nov 24 17:09:34 ShadowJK: seems to have happened about every day for the past few days Nov 24 17:09:41 before that, never happened before Nov 24 17:09:54 So that it's free for video Nov 24 17:10:22 DocScrutinizer, there's stuff about the dsp in there? Nov 24 17:10:33 it seemed to start when i installed live-wallpapers, but i don't think uninstalling it fixed that Nov 24 17:10:36 iirc yes Nov 24 17:10:46 on a side note at least, or a comment Nov 24 17:10:51 in teh comments Nov 24 17:11:47 ok guys back in 1988 a company released glasses that would laserbeam a monochrome display into your eyeball Nov 24 17:12:11 i can't find the x11vnc for Maemo 5 in the extras repository, anyone know what happened to it? Nov 24 17:12:14 where are my irc sunglasses Nov 24 17:12:32 pupnik: hah, you're still using a computer to go on irc? Nov 24 17:12:49 A nokia default mp3 decoder vs ffvorbis would be interesting :) Nov 24 17:13:00 ok, someone needs to remind me how to use package promotion Nov 24 17:13:07 BCMM: everyone does. Nov 24 17:13:10 BCMM, n900 has tvout, remember Nov 24 17:13:27 you could connect videoglasses to your n900 Nov 24 17:13:30 ShadowJK: what makes you think laser sunglasses take video-in? Nov 24 17:13:41 i'm wondering about the technology Nov 24 17:13:48 it doesn't use a 'screen' Nov 24 17:13:53 tugrik: i don't think anything happened to it, are you looking for it in HAM or apt-cache search? Nov 24 17:14:12 pupnik: projection onto the retina with a moving laser beam Nov 24 17:14:14 iirc Nov 24 17:14:15 timeless_mbp: get ten votes Nov 24 17:14:27 then there's a button "promote" Nov 24 17:14:31 BCMM: wondering why it's 22 years later and these are not commodity products Nov 24 17:14:33 persistence of vision makes it into a picture Nov 24 17:14:35 the application manager - HAM? Nov 24 17:14:36 DocScrutinizer: not my package Nov 24 17:14:39 bluetooth text glasses Nov 24 17:14:40 turns out i want to vote against Nov 24 17:14:45 tugrik: Hildon Application Manager, yes Nov 24 17:14:50 that's it :) Nov 24 17:15:02 tugrik: try "apt-get install x11vnc" Nov 24 17:15:08 timeless_mbp: huh? Nov 24 17:15:12 can't see it on downloads.maemo.org either Nov 24 17:15:20 i don't actually know what controls what appears in HAM; something about catagories Nov 24 17:15:25 DocScrutinizer: http://maemo.org/packages/view/active-desktop-sp/ Nov 24 17:15:30 initially i wanted to vote for it Nov 24 17:15:32 and i don't know how debian package categories work Nov 24 17:15:34 sivang: timeless_mbp thanks for that meego presentation - it really was educational. So far the only lecture I saw that was nuts-n-bolts about the UX Nov 24 17:15:36 but it's buggy, so i want to vote against Nov 24 17:15:43 pupnik: thanks Nov 24 17:15:52 pupnik: did you try the slides? Nov 24 17:15:55 timeless_mbp: what is that actually for? Nov 24 17:16:01 timeless_mbp: buggy isn't a proper criterion for a downvote Nov 24 17:16:05 BCMM: see bug 11615 Nov 24 17:16:06 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11615 Activate views should indicate current view and deactivating a view shouldn't delete its content Nov 24 17:16:16 timeless_mbp: i wish the camera were on the slides and not the presenter Nov 24 17:16:16 BCMM: it works around stupidity in core :) Nov 24 17:16:17 how many bots are in here? Nov 24 17:16:19 pupnik: yeah Nov 24 17:16:24 that really annoyed me Nov 24 17:16:29 BCMM: 2 or 3 Nov 24 17:16:33 prolly more Nov 24 17:16:38 i didn't like seeing my floating head w/ redish tail Nov 24 17:16:45 i wholeheartedly agree with that bug Nov 24 17:16:52 also, you should be able to name desktops Nov 24 17:17:04 BCMM: naming desktops is um... painful Nov 24 17:17:13 it's unclear whether it's a particularly useful feature Nov 24 17:17:22 well, i use it on KDE Nov 24 17:17:24 ok, so um Nov 24 17:17:32 BCMM: the question is does the average person Nov 24 17:17:35 of course, the concept of desktop is a bit different if windows belong to a desktop Nov 24 17:17:37 the followup questions are Nov 24 17:17:47 if we have to spend resources on supporting the feature Nov 24 17:17:52 how likely are we to screw it up Nov 24 17:17:53 no, that's why the default names should be 1, 2, 3 and 4 Nov 24 17:17:57 and what else suffer Nov 24 17:18:00 s Nov 24 17:18:05 no sigh of it from "apt-cache search x11vnc" bcmm, only if I go into EasyDebian... and then I *presume* installing it using apt-get from there will give me remote access to the EasyDebian LXDE rather than the N900 screen Nov 24 17:18:34 tugrik: do you want vnc viewer or vnc server? Nov 24 17:18:35 the article I'm looking at regarding this is less than a year old... http://www.gali.co.uk/2010/02/n900-tricks-remote-control-with-vnc-x11vnc/ Nov 24 17:18:35 tugrik: huh, odd. apt-get update? Nov 24 17:18:39 and if you want vnc server, why? Nov 24 17:18:41 vnc server Nov 24 17:18:56 tugrik: also, doesn't easydebian use the regular X server? Nov 24 17:18:56 so I can look at my phone screen on my desktop's screen Nov 24 17:19:06 timeless_mbp: maybe his computer has a bigger monitor? Nov 24 17:19:12 I think easydebian uses its on Xserver Nov 24 17:19:13 i use a vnc server on teh phone on occasion Nov 24 17:19:15 ah Nov 24 17:19:17 heh BCMM Nov 24 17:19:38 tugrik: you enabled extras-devel? Nov 24 17:19:51 s/enabled/added/ Nov 24 17:19:52 timeless_mbp meant: tugrik: you added extras-devel? Nov 24 17:19:57 i once plugged my n900 into a sound system then used someone else's to change tracks remotely over VNC Nov 24 17:20:06 so there. Nov 24 17:20:16 no timeless_mbp - trying to avoid the more experimental stuff, especially as x11vnc appears to be in Extras according to that blog port Nov 24 17:20:16 *post Nov 24 17:20:28 http://www.my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?name=X11vnc&fldAuto=864&faq=37 Nov 24 17:20:29 tugrik: if you did use easydeb's one, you could presumably just change the value of DISPLAY for it Nov 24 17:20:30 haha Nov 24 17:20:39 claims it's in extras and extras-testing in addition to extras-devel Nov 24 17:20:47 IroN900:~# apt-cache search vnc Nov 24 17:20:48 presencevnc - A touchscreen friendly VNC client Nov 24 17:20:50 x11vnc - VNC server to allow remote access to an existing X session Nov 24 17:20:51 vncviewer - A VNC viewer for maemo Nov 24 17:21:04 the rock is so funny. you can so obviously see the stunt drivers Nov 24 17:23:02 IroN900:~# apt-cache policy x11vnc Nov 24 17:23:05 0.9.3-maemo7 0 Nov 24 17:23:07 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Packages Nov 24 17:23:26 o/ Nov 24 17:23:32 * DocScrutinizer away Nov 24 17:23:35 New invention for germany: Not openstreetmap. Openairmap. Every participant runs a client that surveils the sky with a client that identifies moving objects. Based on camera orientation and location, a live map of the sky is created. Nov 24 17:23:39 Invented by pupnik, today Nov 24 17:23:48 ah, I'm got my distribution set to "fremantle-1.3" Nov 24 17:25:13 pupnik: already available, live streams of air controll radio too Nov 24 17:25:13 tugrik: that might be correct for a PR1.3 system Nov 24 17:25:40 chem|st: not available at all Nov 24 17:25:51 i'm talking about a decentralized network Nov 24 17:26:18 pupnik: it is called radar... and you got lots of radar stations all over the place Nov 24 17:26:22 please think. this is revolutionary. Nov 24 17:26:26 nope Nov 24 17:26:55 pupnik: cloudy sky atm but I can tell by sound if Ramstein Airbase has incomings and where they are... Nov 24 17:27:29 chem|st: the whole point of arpanet/internet was robustness from attack Nov 24 17:27:39 there is no robust air defense now Nov 24 17:27:46 it is tied to a few radar points Nov 24 17:27:53 under central control Nov 24 17:28:00 which can pretty easily be hijacked Nov 24 17:28:47 as a product, the client can be sold as a UFO searching app Nov 24 17:28:55 for free of course Nov 24 17:29:42 pupnik: in fact astronomers might consider that a useful app Nov 24 17:29:56 pupnik: traffic is controlled but the bare radar date comes from all over the place Nov 24 17:30:01 just needs a cheap ip camera set on the roof Nov 24 17:30:04 they already have similar thing Nov 24 17:30:26 DocScrutinizer: what is that? Nov 24 17:30:57 surveying airspace is purely defensive. nobody can object to it. Nov 24 17:30:58 locate meteorites Nov 24 17:31:02 ahh Nov 24 17:31:14 pupnik: it is opensource btw Nov 24 17:31:28 not the data but the server is Nov 24 17:32:03 can be used to control scopes, auto align and so on Nov 24 17:34:17 pupnik: and it is webserver based Nov 24 17:35:47 chem|st: what is the name of it? Nov 24 17:35:58 pupnik: maybe you can use that for some good, the web-based planetarium server stuff is here http://ciclope.fi.upm.es/tools/planetario/index_en.shtml Nov 24 17:36:53 pupnik: some (government) nutter in the US managed to argue that that iphone app that identifies commercial flights was a terrorist tool Nov 24 17:37:53 pupnik: as example you compare the web-based planetarium with the current live view to find objects in the night-sky Nov 24 17:38:03 also, a cheap IP camera won't show aircraft unless they're pretty low Nov 24 17:38:38 a town running about 100 clients could identify position and vector of even low-flying cruise missiles Nov 24 17:39:14 pupnik: I would not rely my air defense on that... Nov 24 17:39:39 <- away Nov 24 17:40:10 pupnik: a low-flying cruise missile would cross a cheap camera's field of view *between* frames Nov 24 17:40:58 Well, when screen locked, and streaming over TCP/IP and logging, columbus uses ~1% CPU Nov 24 17:41:01 basically, i reckon cheap cameras have insufficient resolution for high things, and insufficient frame-rates for low things Nov 24 17:41:41 Think I'm gonna do some power usage stats when I've finished. Nov 24 17:41:51 also, you won't be able to combine the images to get a vector for an (angularly) fast thing unless you can correct for latency Nov 24 17:42:07 that said, ntp is basically very good Nov 24 17:42:27 but cheap IP cameras don't run it Nov 24 17:42:42 BCMM: they travel about 10 meters every 1/30 second Nov 24 17:43:01 yes you won't see one fly right over you, but you would if you pointed the camera low Nov 24 17:43:08 that's about fast subsonic, right? Nov 24 17:43:13 yes Nov 24 17:43:31 but your point is valid Nov 24 17:43:37 there is a resolution problem with the idea Nov 24 17:44:15 also, you are correct that it is possible to bomb radar stations Nov 24 17:44:21 but it is also possible to bomb power stations Nov 24 17:44:52 actually i was thinking of inner sabotage Nov 24 17:45:09 well, same Nov 24 17:45:12 not so much Nov 24 17:45:31 if your awareness of the airspace is sabotage proof Nov 24 17:45:40 then you can use your best tech to defend your power stations Nov 24 17:45:54 So the conversations has gone from processing credit payments to terrorism? :) Nov 24 17:46:48 terrorism typically implies a situation too asymmetric for the enemy to have aircraft Nov 24 17:46:50 no alterego Nov 24 17:46:51 war Nov 24 17:46:58 waaaaaar Nov 24 17:47:13 What has Nokia done now for you to want to blow up power plants in Finland? Nov 24 17:48:29 alterego: my n900 has stopped working :( Nov 24 17:48:35 they deserve the worst Nov 24 17:48:51 hi guys Nov 24 17:48:57 also, i'm sure that very low flying aircraft already intentionally avoid populated places Nov 24 17:49:05 Venemo_N900: g'day Nov 24 17:49:29 anyone using mumble on the n900? Nov 24 17:49:32 BCMM: sure, any attacker would probably have access to the map of cameras and be able to plot an optimal route between them Nov 24 17:50:03 the phone application started to say "no recent calls", even though there _are_ recent calls. after I make a call, the list is still empty and it still says "no recent calls" Nov 24 17:50:03 pupnik: well, if they are based on roofs of houses, they would be easy to avoid Nov 24 17:50:10 could anyone help me please? Nov 24 17:50:18 Venemo_N900: is your date set wrong? Nov 24 17:50:25 BCMM: nope Nov 24 17:50:49 BCMM: this started after the phone app crashed earlier today Nov 24 17:50:55 ook Nov 24 17:51:03 i guess it crashed with a broken config or something Nov 24 17:51:08 well. anyone know if to use pulseaudio or alsa to get audio in and out in a program? Nov 24 17:51:11 Venemo_N900: are the 'recent calls' supposed to show only incoming calls? Nov 24 17:51:18 pupnik: nope. Nov 24 17:52:05 pupnik: I had incoming calls too, and they don't appear either. nor do missed calls Nov 24 17:52:14 Freakin' hell it's cold outside. Nov 24 17:52:33 alterego: yeah... Nov 24 17:52:34 alterego, how cold? Nov 24 17:52:42 Venemo_N900: well it looks like phone app crashed and left bad data somewhere that's breaking it Nov 24 17:52:43 1deg I think Nov 24 17:52:54 alterego, 1 degree what? C or F Nov 24 17:53:02 pupnik: that's good thinking Nov 24 17:53:09 c Nov 24 17:53:15 that's not cold Nov 24 17:53:16 pupnik: but I have no idea what to do about it Nov 24 17:53:25 bloody is :P Nov 24 17:53:40 can't feel my toes Nov 24 17:53:48 1c is evil Nov 24 17:53:49 not really. it's -5 here, i can feel my toes just fine Nov 24 17:53:56 if you have no shoes on ;) Nov 24 17:53:59 lol Nov 24 17:54:33 darn. no-one knows about sound stuff on the n900? Nov 24 17:54:59 GPS data logging and streaming over tcp/ip at 1% cpu is quite reasonible I think. Nov 24 17:55:07 korhojoa: sound stuff? Nov 24 17:55:13 korhojoa: i'm just finding the wiki page Nov 24 17:55:34 okay Nov 24 17:55:43 korhojoa: what's the problem Nov 24 17:55:44 alterego, remember it's the wakeups (of both radio and cpu) that cost power :-) Nov 24 17:55:49 Still, want to monitor bandwidth usage and battery usage, before I start using it dat-to-day. Nov 24 17:55:55 korhojoa: what sort of sound output are you looking for? do you want it to go "ding" when you press a button for some feedback, or are you trying to play music or something? Nov 24 17:55:57 ShadowJK: yeah Nov 24 17:55:57 i'm trying to get mumble to work (mumble is a voip chat client) Nov 24 17:56:16 korhojoa, is that a sip client? Nov 24 17:56:33 no Nov 24 17:56:34 korhojoa: umm... I no nothing about it, sorry Nov 24 17:56:40 One tcp/ip packet every 5 seconds on 3g eats about as much power as streaming mp3 continously.. Nov 24 17:57:10 ShadowJK: this is continuous Nov 24 17:57:26 1% CPU is a lie. Nov 24 17:57:33 It's logging to file that I expect to do anyway. Nov 24 17:57:38 In that it is not a meaningful measure of power consumption. Nov 24 17:57:44 khertan_: ping Nov 24 17:57:49 MohammadAG: ping Nov 24 17:57:51 SpeedEvil: I understand that :P Nov 24 17:57:52 korhojoa: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components Nov 24 17:58:08 This is why I want to do a power usage test tomorrow. Nov 24 17:59:12 Just need to finish some configuration backend issues and I'm pretty much done. Nov 24 18:00:16 alterego: 1% cpu is good, but the cpu is not gonna be the biggest power hog in this situation anyway Nov 24 18:00:44 Yes, I know ... Nov 24 18:01:23 Oh, also need to stop ui updates when backgrounded. Nov 24 18:01:27 alterego: do you have a clue about the weird behaviour of the phone app? Nov 24 18:01:43 alterego: that's a good idea yes. Nov 24 18:02:18 Venemo_N900: nope no idea, I lost a couple of sms' and a phone call last week when my N900 ground to a halt and I had to restart. Nov 24 18:02:43 ouch Nov 24 18:03:44 I have not lost a call in such manner yet Nov 24 18:03:46 weird behavior of the phone? Nov 24 18:04:01 At least I got to see who sent/phoned me. Nov 24 18:04:54 timeless_mbp: yes Nov 24 18:05:18 timeless_mbp: the phone app crashed once. now it doesn't display any calls Nov 24 18:05:32 joy Nov 24 18:05:34 sounds like icd Nov 24 18:05:37 timeless_mbp: it just says "no recent calls" and the list remains empty Nov 24 18:05:47 which when it does,... you can't connect to networks until you reboot Nov 24 18:05:51 Venemo_N900: and you've restarted? Nov 24 18:06:43 alterego: not yet Nov 24 18:07:58 should I? Nov 24 18:08:14 "If you don't like chicken or watermelon, there's SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU" - Chappelle Nov 24 18:08:18 Probably, depends if you're planing to investigate the issue further. Nov 24 18:08:58 * DocScrutinizer51 drools over new xchat cursor-up/down mapping Nov 24 18:09:26 easy convenient scrolling Nov 24 18:10:17 was a matter of removing two checkmarks and add them on the next two keybindings instead Nov 24 18:11:30 RST38h: now add fontsize 'zooming' for me and I'm a happy panda Nov 24 18:15:08 oh wow Nov 24 18:15:20 oh, nm Nov 24 18:18:41 http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/11/new_orleans_still_working_to_f.html Nov 24 18:20:59 DocScrutinizer51: what xchat mapping is that? Nov 24 18:21:35 trumee: page scroll or sth Nov 24 18:22:03 DocScrutinizer51: Page Up and Down ? Nov 24 18:22:42 scroll page +1 / -1, 3rd and 4th entry of my key shortcuts Nov 24 18:23:10 remove the checkmark for "Shift" Nov 24 18:25:59 add them to next command / last command Nov 24 18:26:56 anyone here heard of www.elisa.fi/viihde ? Nov 24 18:28:59 ‎hi all, i seem to be getting all the time modest threads in my memo device that eat up memory , what might be causing this?? Nov 24 18:29:17 are you using pop, imap, mfe, other? Nov 24 18:30:37 DocScrutinizer51: i only have Ctrl checkmarked in 1 (Page Up and Page Down) keys Nov 24 18:32:23 DocScrutinizer51: First row reads C, Page_Down, Change Page, -1 Relative Nov 24 18:32:47 yes, those Nov 24 18:33:05 DocScrutinizer51: So i Enable shift? Nov 24 18:33:21 oh Nov 24 18:33:22 no Nov 24 18:34:01 not change page. SCROLL page Nov 24 18:34:47 right, so... um Nov 24 18:34:50 looks like S up page-scroll -1 Nov 24 18:35:01 someone said there was some reasonable electronic tv solution for finland Nov 24 18:35:10 anyone remember it? Nov 24 18:36:31 DocScrutinizer51: hmm. and i should be able to scroll using Shift + Up arrow? Nov 24 18:37:29 if you got that mapping like I see here Nov 24 18:37:58 then yes, and I switched that to scrolling without shift now Nov 24 18:38:06 yes, i have. But Shift + Up gives me single line scrolling and Not Page scrolling Nov 24 18:38:55 yes Nov 24 18:40:22 ah ok. I was hoping to do Page Up, rather than a single Up. Nov 24 18:40:29 trumee: key repeat works fine here. If you want 'faster' scrolling thenmchange -1 to e.g. -10 Nov 24 18:40:38 DocScrutinizer51: cool Nov 24 18:40:48 mere guess Nov 24 18:40:54 :) Nov 24 18:42:14 yes, not a good guess though. doesnt work! Nov 24 18:45:08 :-S Nov 24 18:48:55 hmm this annoys me, my N900 keeps dropping back to "3G" all the time, tried my SIM in my old winmo device, it's keeping a steady HSDPA connection.. Nov 24 19:03:23 Funnyface: Lol, that is actually what it is supposed to do. Nov 24 19:03:33 Funnyface: Idle on 3G, transfer data on 3.5. Nov 24 19:03:42 it does it on transfer as well Nov 24 19:03:45 Funnyface: But most other devices don't show that. Nov 24 19:05:53 DocScrutinizer51 so... if I set up freemantle-1.2 repository... am I asked for trouble? Or just enable it temporarily to install x11vnc? Nov 24 19:08:21 X-Fade: my connection died :\ well it sits there on 3G even with an active connection Nov 24 19:15:26 tugrik: no idea Nov 24 19:16:41 active connection != data transfer. 3.5G is just another word for "wow that's really fast 3G". So no way to tell it's 3.5 unless you actually transfer data Nov 24 19:17:41 other phones might store up a previous 3.5G state and display that all the time, but that's not quite correct Nov 24 19:17:48 hmm. guys, anyone know how to get kernel power back in to multiboot, since it isn't showing right now? i've got nitdroid installed, and i just installed that from a fresh pr1.3 Nov 24 19:18:06 I note that my n900's camera seems not to want to run recently -- am I right in thinking that the thing that's being run would be camera-ui.launch, and if so, I'm guessing that the fact that segfaults when run from the command line might be related Nov 24 19:18:36 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RQlikX4vvw Finland is a Rising Power - "This Christmas Everyone Will Believe in Santa Claus. Nov 24 19:18:46 fil: uninstall fcam Nov 24 19:20:32 korhojoa: the multiboot FAQ doesn't cover that? Nov 24 19:21:30 o/ Nov 24 19:23:03 DocScrutinizer, well. it does, but installing fails since 'there is no install candidate' Nov 24 19:23:37 also, when you get the file from maemo.org and install it with dpkg, it fails with some guru meditation, "can't flash kernel, file not found" Nov 24 19:23:49 DocScrutinizer: installed it from extras-testing, now time to wrap some security around it - thanks for your help Nov 24 19:26:39 DocScrutinizer: I understand, but.. when it says 3.5G anywhere between 80-200KB/s when looking at the bandwidth graph, then suddenly it might drop to 3G and I get a steady 40KB/s instead. and it seems to freeze at that speed, the latency on ping times gets higher Nov 24 19:26:48 Hi Nov 24 19:26:59 hey guys Nov 24 19:27:18 a restart indeed solved the stupidity of the phone app Nov 24 19:27:18 funthat's BTS controlled Nov 24 19:27:30 so thanks for the idea alterego Nov 24 19:27:43 Fixes a lot of this :) Nov 24 19:27:48 things ... Nov 24 19:28:31 neh Nov 24 19:28:45 now I remember why I hated my winmo phone :P Nov 24 19:39:56 so... it was a network problem Nov 24 19:40:09 apparently every linux-based phone has the same problem as of now, with my carrier Nov 24 19:40:20 how does that even make sense Nov 24 19:41:04 it doesnt Nov 24 19:43:09 DocScrutinizer: that did the trick -- thanks :-) Nov 24 19:44:16 nidO: i shit you not Nov 24 19:44:30 in 2g, i get roaming working fine Nov 24 19:44:39 (my carrier is 3g-only) Nov 24 19:45:37 every android (and maemo apparently) phone on h3g italy can't connect Nov 24 19:46:26 cant see what possible difference the device could make Nov 24 19:47:00 imei? Nov 24 19:47:15 was about to suggest... they might filter imeis for some unknown reason Nov 24 19:48:23 a model-wide imei block? Nov 24 19:48:37 an imei on its own doesnt identify a device platform though, theyd need to be specifically collecting imei ranges from handset manufactures and blocking them purposefully Nov 24 19:49:24 yay italy :| Nov 24 19:49:42 * toggles slaps kerio with a wet trout Nov 24 19:49:45 Or you apn setup is just not correct ;) Nov 24 19:49:48 not yay Nov 24 19:49:56 *your Nov 24 19:50:20 X-Fade: or it's a widespread problem that happened to a lot of people? Nov 24 19:50:34 nidO, definitely possible Nov 24 19:50:38 but weird that they'd want to Nov 24 19:51:32 and apn setup would only affect your data access... it'd still register with the network for voice/sms Nov 24 19:53:06 kerio: Well, if the default setting is just not ok. Nov 24 19:53:40 so, i've noticed others have been having problems with pulseaudio auto starting Nov 24 20:02:51 what the fuck is wrong with tmo?! Nov 24 20:03:06 users asking for torrentleach invites without getting their threads closed Nov 24 20:05:36 MohammadAG, did you report the post? Nov 24 20:06:07 no Nov 24 20:06:40 it's 6 months old, you'd think a mod would've seen it... Nov 24 20:06:47 (was bumped today) Nov 24 20:11:57 MohammadAG: well then report it Nov 24 20:12:29 Venemo, pong :P Nov 24 20:16:16 another question - I don't appear to have a /usr/share/applications/hildon/ directory - has thischanged in later releases? Nov 24 20:16:36 no, check again Nov 24 20:16:57 Heh Nov 24 20:16:59 It's there :P Nov 24 20:17:30 so what is the story behind the 8088 Nov 24 20:17:42 intel had something kind of usable with 8086 Nov 24 20:17:46 but something happened Nov 24 20:18:11 why did that bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, cpu dominate Nov 24 20:18:33 baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad Nov 24 20:18:42 why did something so bad Nov 24 20:18:44 get sold Nov 24 20:18:49 think about that, kids Nov 24 20:18:57 and engineer kids Nov 24 20:19:18 shouldn't that be in #intel (if that channel exists) :P Nov 24 20:19:23 [root@deb-m5v3d: /usr/share/applications]pwd Nov 24 20:19:23 /usr/share/applications Nov 24 20:19:23 [root@deb-m5v3d: /usr/share/applications]id Nov 24 20:19:23 uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root),20(dialout),29(audio),44(video),670(pulse-access) Nov 24 20:19:27 [root@deb-m5v3d: /usr/share/applications]ls h* Nov 24 20:19:29 ls: cannot access h*: No such file or directory Nov 24 20:19:31 [root@deb-m5v3d: /usr/share/applications] Nov 24 20:19:34 it's not there :) Nov 24 20:19:38 ignore tugrik Nov 24 20:19:56 MohammadAG: because the 8088 was a bastard designed in Israel on a bulldozed palestinian town. Nov 24 20:20:05 that's why 8088 was satanic Nov 24 20:20:05 is that your N900? Nov 24 20:20:19 band is it running maemo or debian Nov 24 20:20:20 ~pastebin Nov 24 20:20:20 [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you should paste anything over 3 lines so you don't flood the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://bin.cakephp.org/ , http://asterisk.pastey.net/ , or install pastebinit with yum or aptitude. Nov 24 20:20:22 -b Nov 24 20:20:53 ah, do you have a pastebin policy? Nov 24 20:20:53 any guidelines on numbers of lines? Nov 24 20:20:53 3 lines, gotcha - cheers lcuk Nov 24 20:22:02 now as long as future maemo/meego devices don't have INTELLIGENCE AGENCY INSIDE Nov 24 20:22:04 we'll be ok Nov 24 20:22:51 and any fucking indication of that is to be released IMMEDIATELY Nov 24 20:22:55 to wikileaks Nov 24 20:23:21 NO RESPECT Nov 24 20:23:35 for the DUMB PEOPLE IN YOUR JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL Nov 24 20:23:42 those people are IDIOTS Nov 24 20:23:59 tugrik: 3 medium lengthed lines :P Nov 24 20:24:29 pupnik, ok? Nov 24 20:24:31 yeah, fair enough alterego, i'm used to smaller channels than this :) Nov 24 20:24:47 * GAN900 hands pupnik some chocolate. Nov 24 20:25:43 GAN900: knife throwing is a great hobby Nov 24 20:25:50 poison tip and you're good to go Nov 24 20:26:21 pupnik, I go to the range at least once a month. Nov 24 20:26:47 * pupnik nods ok.. .sorry for my tone Nov 24 20:36:28 http://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/images/hostmode.jpg <- got a nice adapter for just $3 on the local market Nov 24 20:36:48 http://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/images/hostmode.jpg Nov 24 20:36:51 oops Nov 24 20:37:03 accidentally pasted again Nov 24 20:37:30 :) Nov 24 20:37:52 I like those, but I'm not sure if the stress is a lot on the port Nov 24 20:38:34 what's with all the clones? Nov 24 20:45:14 MohammadAG: thx for the pong :) Nov 24 20:45:23 MohammadAG: the problem for which I pinged you has been solved :P Nov 24 20:45:36 MohammadAG: btw I found a few bugs in Qt myself :( Nov 24 20:45:51 MohammadAG: have you reported your bug yet? Nov 24 20:54:30 ____ Nov 24 20:54:30 (. \ Nov 24 20:54:30 \ | Nov 24 20:54:30 \ |___(\--/) Nov 24 20:54:30 __/ ( . . ) Nov 24 20:54:32 "'._. '-.O.' Nov 24 20:54:35 '-. \ "|\ Nov 24 20:54:37 '.,,/'.,, Nov 24 20:54:40 imagine programming an AI that would recognize that as a 'cat' Nov 24 20:55:34 Looks more like a cross between a squirrel, a pig, and a bear. Nov 24 20:55:49 I was gonna say squirrel Nov 24 20:56:19 imagine programming an AI that would recognize that as an animal Nov 24 20:56:36 you can't Nov 24 20:56:39 you're too stupid Nov 24 20:57:19 anyone knows an applicatio for change the voice? for symbian s60 3r Nov 24 20:57:20 Program a AI to recognize ACSII art Nov 24 20:57:35 jotta: #symbian Nov 24 20:57:40 lol that looked more like a squirrel indeed Appiah :p Nov 24 20:57:47 that's a squirrel Nov 24 20:57:49 ASCII* Nov 24 20:58:12 the AI shouldnt be that good that it is better then humans :p Nov 24 20:58:18 pretty sad.... Nov 24 20:58:21 no progress Nov 24 20:58:29 if humans cannot confir on a recognition of what is clearly a racoon then what hope do computers have :P Nov 24 20:58:35 and the smartest people only can say how difficult it is Nov 24 20:59:04 _,'| _.-''``-...___..--';) Nov 24 20:59:05 /_ \'. __..-' , ,--...--''' Nov 24 20:59:05 <\ .`--''' ` /' Nov 24 20:59:05 `-';' ; ; ; Nov 24 20:59:05 __...--'' ___...--_..' .;.' Nov 24 20:59:07 (,__....----''' (,..--'' Felix Lee Nov 24 20:59:10 happy Nov 24 20:59:11 cat! Nov 24 20:59:17 as long as my n900 does not try to kill me ... I'm alright with that Nov 24 20:59:26 that's some kind of feline with a beak Nov 24 20:59:27 * Gh0sty saw too much terminator Nov 24 20:59:49 kerio, it also managed to poop out words Nov 24 21:00:31 Appiah: a smart computer would recognize that form in a sea of noise Nov 24 21:00:39 well , we got stuff to recongize faces Nov 24 21:01:16 maybe we are not that far from taking pictures of things and have it say "that's a cat" Nov 24 21:01:31 (__) Nov 24 21:01:31 (oo) Nov 24 21:01:32 /------\/ Nov 24 21:01:32 / | || Nov 24 21:01:32 * /\---/\ Nov 24 21:01:34 ~~ ~~ Nov 24 21:01:36 ...."Have you mooed today?"... Nov 24 21:01:37 goat! Nov 24 21:01:50 Janet Reno! Nov 24 21:02:50 now if you squint your eyes, you see a bunch of noise text, and two or three animals Nov 24 21:03:00 how would you program a computer to see the animals? Nov 24 21:03:06 the poor people with proportional font Nov 24 21:03:45 not my fault they are stupid Nov 24 21:04:39 there is a kind of 'energy' created by the animal shapes Nov 24 21:04:45 directed - linear Nov 24 21:10:52 hm the n900 is a pretty good bookmark to put into the book when you have to google some crazy thing you just read Nov 24 21:11:46 bit thick for a bookmark Nov 24 21:12:12 well I don't close the book, I just use the n900 to keep the page open :D Nov 24 21:15:05 yay! new maemo.org bugzilla design :) Nov 24 21:15:22 was wo? Nov 24 21:15:22 thats make not less bugs Nov 24 21:15:33 pupnik: fuckoff ascii gfx on proportional fontset. please don't spam chan Nov 24 21:16:23 jacekowski: same applies Nov 24 21:16:32 DocScrutinizer51: overall Signal to noise is at a relatively comfortable level Nov 24 21:16:43 my post was to encourage AI research Nov 24 21:16:47 johnsq: but it makes browsing and fixing bugs more fun ;) Nov 24 21:17:17 i'm sorry you aren't smart enough to solve the puzzle Nov 24 21:17:43 pupnik: I givema fuck Nov 24 21:18:18 right, you can't be interested in everything on the planet Nov 24 21:18:28 beware, I'm grumpy Nov 24 21:18:56 i didn't want to make a habit of it Nov 24 21:19:03 just to illustrate something Nov 24 21:19:59 k, me off again Nov 24 21:20:07 cheers Nov 24 21:21:13 all this talk of 'next generation' ... blah is useless Nov 24 21:21:25 if 'meego' is "click" "swipe" Nov 24 21:22:17 bye guys Nov 24 21:22:21 have a nice evening Nov 24 21:23:07 Heh Nov 24 21:23:45 why all the hatred on the channel? Nov 24 21:23:56 Hello people! i have question how to make front camera work normaly? (without every time calling video police chat) Nov 24 21:26:55 no geek's here? :) Nov 24 21:27:47 http://thp.io/2010/maemo/funkytown.png Nov 24 21:28:01 Hello people! i have question how to make front camera work normaly? (without every time calling video chat) Nov 24 21:28:11 (we can use pango markup in window titles.. whoohoo!) -> http://thp.io/2010/maemo/funkytown.py Nov 24 21:29:54 any help amigos? Nov 24 21:30:37 tovarishchi, koledzy, draugai, froinde Nov 24 21:32:09 fck: stop talking elbish Nov 24 21:32:37 sorry, front camera working on nervs Nov 24 21:33:17 also repeating posts after 4min won't help Nov 24 21:33:22 and im working on yours :) don't blame me ;) any help? Nov 24 21:34:16 maybe hint where i should look? Nov 24 21:35:06 afteris, er fck define 'front' Nov 24 21:35:12 define normal Nov 24 21:35:29 what's the problem Nov 24 21:35:32 ? Nov 24 21:36:03 ~question Nov 24 21:36:03 from memory, question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Nov 24 21:37:23 front camera Nov 24 21:37:38 i post before Nov 24 21:37:40 Afteris> Hello people! i have question how to make front camera work normaly? (without every time calling video police chat) Nov 24 21:38:55 front camera worked normally ever since Nov 24 21:39:22 very dark :/ Nov 24 21:39:36 AHAAAA Nov 24 21:40:30 i try with mirror app, also then console? mplayer tv:// device/dev/video1 Nov 24 21:40:40 it shows back camera Nov 24 21:40:54 hmmm Nov 24 21:43:57 video1 and video0 are mutually exclusive. There are magic incantations using gstreamer to get amazing results. Ask SpeedEvil Nov 24 21:45:23 thanks! i try Nov 24 21:46:17 amazing results? Nov 24 21:46:30 yes Nov 24 21:46:41 Elaborate? Nov 24 21:47:03 SpeedEvil was first to come up with nightmode video Nov 24 21:47:15 Oh cool Nov 24 21:47:58 * MohammadAG heads to bed Nov 24 21:48:02 night :) Nov 24 21:48:05 Messing with gstreamer was the first thing I did when I got the N900, had it streaming video to my laptop and stuff Nov 24 21:48:11 night MohammadAG Nov 24 21:48:15 g'night MohammadAG Nov 24 21:48:40 What's the better battery usage recording app? Nov 24 21:48:54 Wanna test the power consumption of my app. Nov 24 21:49:35 bq27200.sh Nov 24 21:50:18 Heh, Does it lo Nov 24 21:50:23 log to file? Nov 24 21:50:30 Can't remember Nov 24 21:52:38 bq27200.sh >logfile Nov 24 21:53:05 Cool Nov 24 21:53:20 I just remember using it in console with the live update Nov 24 21:56:45 google for jrbme, sorry I don't have the proper links here Nov 24 21:57:06 also: Nov 24 21:57:18 ~batteryfaq Nov 24 21:57:18 methinks batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers Nov 24 21:58:54 this is the greatest collection of people on the net Nov 24 21:58:56 right here Nov 24 21:59:07 haha Nov 24 21:59:38 you're included in that Nov 24 21:59:45 don't insult yourself Nov 24 21:59:59 smells like sarcasm Nov 24 22:00:39 it's kind of interesting to watch your skin turn into an old person's Nov 24 22:01:17 and kind of depressing we give half our money to parasites who kill people Nov 24 22:01:41 buy some knives, and sharpen them on both sides Nov 24 22:01:49 pupnik: getting metaphoric? Nov 24 22:02:14 best encoding there is Nov 24 22:02:40 blah Nov 24 22:02:59 I prefer XXX speech Nov 24 22:03:13 meh Nov 24 22:03:27 i think 'badness' is a great negative marketing campaign for 2011 Nov 24 22:03:41 we can make this TSA thing spread Nov 24 22:03:46 more clear Nov 24 22:04:07 proudly advertise software freedom Nov 24 22:04:58 these 7th grade rejects do not determine what we may transmit Nov 24 22:05:02 rebusrebusrebus Nov 24 22:05:05 they are literally the stupid people Nov 24 22:05:35 the high-school bully model is all you need for human society DocScrutinizer51 Nov 24 22:06:00 people don't care about "badness" Nov 24 22:06:20 they admit and excuse themselves with "weakness" Nov 24 22:06:32 see apple's example Nov 24 22:06:45 fsck whomcares human society? Nov 24 22:06:45 Choom: ok lets get concrete Nov 24 22:06:56 now mtter how crappy or limited their products are, the fanboys will continue to buy them Nov 24 22:07:02 no* Nov 24 22:07:06 matter* Nov 24 22:07:19 Choom: yes, the fanbboys bought the lie that IRAW had WMDs and was a DANGER to USA Nov 24 22:07:31 i got banned from a lot of places for showing how that was a lie Nov 24 22:07:42 well i'm still here Nov 24 22:07:51 and i'm still revealing the lies Nov 24 22:08:11 wikileaks :) Nov 24 22:08:15 the only thing required for such campaigns to work is indifference, which is actually the self-imposed inexistence of choice Nov 24 22:08:23 pupnik: reveal lie of security framework! Nov 24 22:08:48 you got banned from a lot of places for disturbing people with stuff that they don't really care Nov 24 22:08:54 yes Choom Nov 24 22:09:09 not because they feel strongly about the subject Nov 24 22:09:30 i've killed animals just to get in the mood to talk about this Nov 24 22:09:34 Sadam wasn't best guy.... Nov 24 22:09:47 of course iraq had WMDs Nov 24 22:09:52 try squeezing the live out of someone's throat Nov 24 22:09:53 you guys fucking sold them to the iraqis Nov 24 22:10:09 :D Nov 24 22:10:34 * MohammadAG can't sleep Nov 24 22:10:41 it's not fun fck Nov 24 22:10:46 pupnik, pardon? Nov 24 22:10:53 * MohammadAG blinks, nope, it's not #politics Nov 24 22:11:06 in order to make a negative campaign to work, reality has to offer people two choices: 1 - not care and accept [the campaign]; 2 - care and work for what you believe Nov 24 22:11:33 most people will choose the former over the latter simply because they don't even think much about those subjects to understand how they can affect their lives or the lives of others Nov 24 22:12:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__5CpKlr4-4 Nov 24 22:12:24 not always... Nov 24 22:12:47 also i think it was good idea to kabooom irak Nov 24 22:12:59 obviously there are eceptions, ehnce "most" Nov 24 22:13:10 MohammadAG: SLEEP! Nov 24 22:15:05 * DocScrutinizer51 warms up the MTHELs - he knowa he'll need them soon Nov 24 22:16:41 DocScrutinizer51, laser vid's awesome Nov 24 22:16:46 i want one Nov 24 22:17:54 night, again Nov 24 22:18:31 hm Nov 24 22:18:45 why doesn't the kb work with xforwarding? Nov 24 22:19:08 i just tried using a forwarded gentoo file manager and that didn't seem to work Nov 24 22:19:49 is this from within LXDE Macer ? Nov 24 22:20:20 in maemo Nov 24 22:20:35 not running easy deb Nov 24 22:20:41 just stock maemo Nov 24 22:21:15 i am going to try to use mc Nov 24 22:21:16 i think you can only use the keyboard if you're using LXDE, that's one of the reasons it's used Nov 24 22:21:28 wow that sucks Nov 24 22:22:08 it would be great to use the maemo stuff... i don't feel like installing easy deb just for xforwarding... kinda lame Nov 24 22:23:44 is there a way to use fn keys in xterm? Nov 24 22:23:51 so i can use mc? Nov 24 22:23:56 i think that's the case Macer, i'm only going by memory Nov 24 22:24:16 MohammadAG: yeah, don't look with the non-smoking eye into laser! Nov 24 22:24:38 if you want to use Fn keys.... I think you need to make your own mappings, but your request rings a bell, try searching for that on maemo.org forums Nov 24 22:24:46 and apologies for being the blind leading the blind here ;) Nov 24 22:24:51 haha Nov 24 22:25:07 well. maybe there are ctrl alternatives for mc Nov 24 22:25:11 my xmess gift (plus a pair of protective goggles - I'm not an idiot) Nov 24 22:25:26 mc woud be good if i could find out how to use it in maemo Nov 24 22:26:56 Macer: ESC- Nov 24 22:27:15 esc-0 == F10 Nov 24 22:27:16 thank you DocScrutinizer :) Nov 24 22:27:52 yw Nov 24 22:28:03 DocScrutinizer: is there a meta for maemo xterm too? Nov 24 22:28:06 NOW LET ME KICK SOMEBODY!! Nov 24 22:28:14 I feel like Nov 24 22:28:18 i am a troll, troll troll troll Nov 24 22:28:28 maemo sucks, long live android Nov 24 22:28:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdiz0k0Rudw Nov 24 22:29:07 don't mention it Nov 24 22:29:12 thanks! Nov 24 22:29:18 needed that Nov 24 22:30:46 Macer: meta == esc Nov 24 22:31:19 except you should release ESC before hitting next key Nov 24 22:32:00 ESC; 0; == quit mc Nov 24 22:32:07 wait, me too! Nov 24 22:32:29 that was fun Nov 24 22:32:37 yeah :-) Nov 24 22:33:04 doc.... awesome! Nov 24 22:33:11 now my account for kicks is used up for this month Nov 24 22:33:15 thanks so much. seriously needed that Nov 24 22:33:17 :) Nov 24 22:33:28 Macer: you are welcome Nov 24 22:33:54 me also needed somebody to tell (guess it was raster) Nov 24 22:35:26 for the record: Nov 24 22:36:04 meh Nov 24 22:38:35 ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Nov 24 22:38:35 `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Nov 24 22:38:35 (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' Nov 24 22:38:35 _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Nov 24 22:38:35 (il).-'' (li).' ((!.-' Nov 24 22:39:41 you set a channel key Nov 24 22:40:15 could someone kick me please? Nov 24 22:40:50 Strange how the first thing I see from the ASCII pic is HTML element. Nov 24 22:40:57 any complaints? Nov 24 22:41:20 chan up and well? Nov 24 22:41:26 nao you've allowed external messages Nov 24 22:41:37 WTF? Nov 24 22:41:46 teach me please! Nov 24 22:42:08 like these Nov 24 22:43:06 ?...?...? Nov 24 22:43:46 -n Nov 24 22:44:16 *cough* Nov 24 22:45:30 http://toxin.jottit.com/freenode_chanserv_commands#cs03 Nov 24 22:46:05 Choom: you need to get moe verbose to convince me Nov 24 22:46:11 more* Nov 24 22:46:30 don't know if you noticed, but I left the channel and sent a message Nov 24 22:46:34 while outside Nov 24 22:46:47 that's what +n which you removed does, it forbids that Nov 24 22:46:53 nothing wrong with it though Nov 24 22:47:00 but it was set previously Nov 24 22:47:23 how do i keep a file where it is and rename in mc? Nov 24 22:47:34 it keeps trying to move it to the other pane's dir Nov 24 22:47:34 nothing showing up here Nov 24 22:47:42 Choom: ^^^ Nov 24 22:47:43 i just want to rename and keep it there Nov 24 22:48:19 o Nov 24 22:48:21 k Nov 24 22:48:31 Macer: rename: ./newname Nov 24 22:48:46 s/rename/move Nov 24 22:48:53 ah ok Nov 24 22:49:02 so i have to clear it all out? Nov 24 22:49:09 ah well. fair enough :) Nov 24 22:50:17 probably a mere newname works as well Nov 24 22:51:08 I usually do: move: pipapo.fuckme *.fmg Nov 24 22:51:58 mc is *smart* Nov 24 22:52:53 what about getting the panes to only show dir names? :) Nov 24 22:53:01 mc even can do a "move" *.JPG *.jpg Nov 24 22:53:02 i don't need the size/date stuff Nov 24 22:53:09 just dir and file na es Nov 24 22:53:14 names Nov 24 22:54:04 oh.. so you can do like *.jPG to whatever-*.jpg as well? Nov 24 22:54:13 menu, left, listing_mode... Nov 24 22:54:23 that would be pretty awesome Nov 24 22:54:30 wow.. mc is pretty awesome Nov 24 22:54:40 honestly never really used it before Nov 24 22:54:51 mc is candy Nov 24 22:54:55 works great over ssh in a screen heh Nov 24 22:55:54 mc is gold even Nov 24 22:56:58 tbh I refuse to touch a box where installing mc isn't allowed Nov 24 22:57:36 i still remember NC Nov 24 22:57:40 heh Nov 24 22:57:40 norton commander Nov 24 22:57:55 i am trying to find a way to get rid of the tilde method it uses Nov 24 22:58:00 browse .tgz as if it were normal folders... Nov 24 22:58:07 i need to see full names of long named dirs Nov 24 22:58:25 menu, left, listing_mode... Nov 24 22:58:34 and they are like... this is a~der Nov 24 22:58:46 F1 Nov 24 22:58:46 doc.. tried that Nov 24 22:59:31 just try, and be assured it's feasible Nov 24 22:59:51 ah Nov 24 22:59:54 you do have iridium Nov 24 22:59:56 yeah. i am sure. just looking for it Nov 24 22:59:59 read help texts Nov 24 23:00:05 ah Nov 24 23:00:08 not here Nov 24 23:00:19 jacekowski: HEH?? Nov 24 23:00:20 i want to stop it from doing the ~ thing Nov 24 23:00:28 iridium is global Nov 24 23:01:02 but how's iridium related to midnight commander? Nov 24 23:01:54 Macer: edit mini status Nov 24 23:01:55 not related Nov 24 23:02:03 i typed it into wrong channel Nov 24 23:02:21 full vs half Nov 24 23:02:23 DocScrutinizer: i am making a user defined one Nov 24 23:02:24 RTFM Nov 24 23:02:30 seems easy enough ;) Nov 24 23:02:43 just need to get it to extend the pane out like the long listing Nov 24 23:02:57 that's full Nov 24 23:02:57 am trying to find out how Nov 24 23:03:24 yeah... i want to see it all without ~ Nov 24 23:04:08 if path fits into whatever your term char/line it wil work with full Nov 24 23:04:34 mini! Nov 24 23:04:37 got it :) Nov 24 23:04:45 full type name Nov 24 23:04:46 see?! Nov 24 23:04:48 heh Nov 24 23:04:55 mc FTW Nov 24 23:05:01 so.. awesome heh Nov 24 23:05:13 now i can work with this :) Nov 24 23:05:18 fsck HFM Nov 24 23:05:38 mc RULEZ Nov 24 23:06:06 please someone beat me for the "Z" Nov 24 23:06:56 filebox, HFM, pffffff! Nov 24 23:07:15 screwit! Nov 24 23:07:40 mc conquers Nov 24 23:08:06 haha Nov 24 23:08:29 yeah. it is pretty awesome... didn't know it was so good Nov 24 23:08:29 :) Nov 24 23:08:29 like I said... never really used it Nov 24 23:14:34 bboo Nov 24 23:14:37 hi crashanddie :) Nov 24 23:14:59 cya folks Nov 24 23:17:05 really wish i could find out where mc can have moves act as simple renames Nov 24 23:17:16 i will figure that out later... I'm tired Nov 24 23:17:38 the ./method kind of sucks Nov 24 23:17:53 they should have separate options :) Nov 24 23:18:01 i bet there is an easy way to do it Nov 24 23:20:50 user menu Nov 24 23:24:12 hmm sorry my internet connection died earlier when I was talking about the 3G/3.5G thing Nov 24 23:24:42 I see what you all mean about that it switches to 3.5G when transferring data, but the thing is that mine seems locked at 3G speeds at times :\ Nov 24 23:25:46 if I use the switcher applet to switch from GSM, then back to dual, I seem to get full HSDPA speeds for a little while, of maybe 160KB/s, then suddenly it might drop back to "3G" and I only get around 45KB/s Nov 24 23:28:02 Funnyface: normal Nov 24 23:28:23 It should roam back to 3.5G once you start using more data than 3.5G can push Nov 24 23:28:50 Funnyface: but there is some info that exact time and data transfered to switch to 3.5G varies between networks Nov 24 23:30:03 hmm yeah, but I still find it very strange that when it is working all good at great speeds, it'll suddenly kick in and drop down to 3G in the middle of a large download :\ Nov 24 23:33:25 * alterego seems to remember this exact conversation a few hours ago .. Nov 24 23:34:03 yeah, we were discussing it, when my connection died :p so I picked it back up Nov 24 23:47:39 someone sanity check a line of code for me ... "avg_r[ i % xStep ] += row[ 0 ][ i++ ];" has gcc telling me "operation on i may be undefined" twice for that (i and xStep are int) Nov 24 23:49:02 hrm, i think i see it now... probably pissed that i'm changing the value of it in the operation Nov 24 23:49:19 yep Nov 24 23:51:07 is it true that the n900 has poor battery life? Nov 24 23:52:58 comawhite: maybe. Nov 24 23:53:05 maybe? Nov 24 23:53:09 comawhite: Ask some people, they say yes, some they say no. Nov 24 23:53:20 well i was told it Nov 24 23:53:20 It depends how youy use it. Nov 24 23:53:31 ieatlint: is it defined at initialisation Nov 24 23:53:33 it's good for development but poor on phone usage Nov 24 23:53:36 If you're streaming flash video over 3G with the screen bright, you may get 2-3 hours. Nov 24 23:53:36 ieatlint: like int i=0; Nov 24 23:53:50 If you're playing mp3 over earphones, 12h is easy. Nov 24 23:53:55 (from local storage) Nov 24 23:54:17 If it's idle, it can last most of a week connected to wifi and phone. Nov 24 23:54:17 comawhite: you can drain battery in less than 3h if you use it Nov 24 23:54:18 i have an mp3 player for music, i have laptop for internet, Nov 24 23:54:28 hell, less than 2h is probably possible Nov 24 23:54:29 pupnik: I hope it would be useful for next generations :) Nov 24 23:54:33 jacekowski, yeah, it was... it was because it goes right to left, so it went "row[ 0 ][ i ]" then "i++" then "avg_r[ i % xStep ]", with i being different values Nov 24 23:54:41 hi all, btw, gonna fix the slides tonight, finally Nov 24 23:54:59 the warning was to tell me if i didn't catch that -- it would've been an undesired result Nov 24 23:55:13 yeah but i was asked about my skills on maemo, so im assuming if i get this job, i might have to start doing maemo development and have to buy an n900 for it Nov 24 23:55:58 ekhm Nov 24 23:56:02 you applied for maemo job Nov 24 23:56:08 without previous maemo experience? Nov 24 23:56:09 not technically Nov 24 23:56:10 comawhite, my typical usage has me doing fine with the battery 90% of the time Nov 24 23:56:18 jacekowski, that's not that big of a deal Nov 24 23:56:19 sivang: it's difficult to merge backwards looking "mistakes" with forward looking "goals" Nov 24 23:56:22 well i applied for desktop, but i was asked it though Nov 24 23:56:30 a lot of the "goals" for meego are not real tihngs Nov 24 23:56:32 if you have linux dev experience, applying for a maemo dev job isn't that huge Nov 24 23:56:34 since they do it for all platforms Nov 24 23:56:36 mostly same stuff Nov 24 23:56:49 ieatlint: nope Nov 24 23:57:03 ieatlint: on phone you only have 256M of ram Nov 24 23:57:05 comawhite: I charge it when I go to bed. It generally works fine for me the rest of the day. Nov 24 23:57:29 SpeedEvil, what do you typically do on the phone? Nov 24 23:57:32 and you can't just tell user to add mode Nov 24 23:57:38 comawhite: Even though I typically listen to several hours of podcasts, and watch an hour of video. Nov 24 23:57:44 jacekowski, eh... finger friendly UI is the biggest learning curve.. Nov 24 23:57:57 ieatlint: not wasting memory is biggest problem Nov 24 23:58:07 and cpu cycles Nov 24 23:58:21 hasn't been an issue for me Nov 24 23:58:22 * ieatlint shrugs Nov 24 23:58:26 SpeedEvil, how good is opengl es on it? Nov 24 23:58:37 comawhite: it's opengl es Nov 24 23:58:51 comawhite: you have to know your C++/C and preferably some Qt Nov 24 23:58:54 comawhite: complies with all specs like any other opengl es device Nov 24 23:59:17 sivang i have good knowledge of Qt Nov 25 00:00:13 pupnik: true, that is why we must work out the compliance spec or add appendixes that specify quality per vertical and/or means of ensuring overall quality and cycle breakpoints for critical caveats. Nov 25 00:00:45 i wonder is there will be a n1000 :P Nov 25 00:00:53 comawhite: ah Nov 25 00:01:07 comawhite: There will be no more maemo devices. Nov 25 00:01:09 sivang, yeah i applied for a Qt job :) Nov 25 00:01:11 comawhite, no, it'll be the n9 and will be meego Nov 25 00:01:15 SpeedEvil, only meego Nov 25 00:01:15 comawhite: It's all going to meego. Nov 25 00:01:25 Which is a AMD/intel/nokia collaboration. Nov 25 00:01:30 amd? Nov 25 00:01:40 when did that happen Nov 25 00:01:50 ieatlint, isn't n9 only a rumour (at least that's what sais on Qt's blog Nov 25 00:01:58 said* Nov 25 00:02:27 not really Nov 25 00:02:30 it's not been announced Nov 25 00:02:33 yeah Nov 25 00:02:36 but there have been pics of it released Nov 25 00:02:43 and the model is referenced in meego code that is public Nov 25 00:02:46 it looks just like the n8 Nov 25 00:02:56 except white Nov 25 00:03:05 sivang: i think we first have to explain to ourselves how android became popular Nov 25 00:03:10 jacekowski: last week? Nov 25 00:03:15 and has a hardware keyboard, heh Nov 25 00:03:19 that requires understanding of dynamic systems, chaos Nov 25 00:03:20 etc Nov 25 00:03:28 * comawhite doesn't see what's great about androdi Nov 25 00:03:31 android* Nov 25 00:03:36 right Nov 25 00:03:43 it's not about the product Nov 25 00:03:48 you need a genius like pupnik Nov 25 00:03:55 to understand chaos and dynamic systems Nov 25 00:08:11 is there any good maemo applications? Nov 25 00:08:19 well examples/demos Nov 25 00:09:01 check the wiki, there's a link to a bunch of sample code Nov 25 00:11:09 01:02 i'm so close to .. getting in trouble Nov 25 00:11:12 01:02 and i don't know what i'm doing Nov 25 00:11:14 01:02 it's wonderful Nov 25 00:11:17 01:03 nothing else is life Nov 25 00:13:40 Hello Guys Nov 25 00:14:59 is it possible, to boot with uboot with came with the titan kernel v46, boot the original kernel and the titan kernel v46???? Nov 25 00:15:24 How to? Nov 25 00:17:14 öhmm nobody? Nov 25 00:17:48 hmm, i thought v46 no longer had uboot? Nov 25 00:18:02 ok than v45? Nov 25 00:18:21 i believe it is possible, not sure how myself Nov 25 00:18:48 because i had glitches wile i do video recording but i need titan kernel for aircrack or overclocking and co Nov 25 00:19:24 blah all the example apps used gtk (eww) Nov 25 00:19:28 use* Nov 25 00:19:34 mhh any idea how to serach for? Search WORDS? Nov 25 00:20:03 try searching uboot power kernel Nov 25 00:20:10 on tmo Nov 25 00:20:42 lol Nov 25 00:22:18 sounds like it might be easier with multiboot Nov 25 00:22:28 if you just want to switch between default and power kernel Nov 25 00:23:29 ok how do i do it maybe tutorial or how to? Nov 25 00:23:53 yes this is what i want to do Nov 25 00:24:17 didint found what i whant at google Nov 25 00:24:34 im no expert in these matters Nov 25 00:24:39 never done it myself Nov 25 00:24:43 but based on http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=877983&postcount=90 Nov 25 00:24:54 can you please help me search for? Nov 25 00:24:57 ok Nov 25 00:25:04 it sounds like installing multiboot Nov 25 00:25:10 either directly or via nitdroid Nov 25 00:25:19 enables option to boot default or power kernel Nov 25 00:26:06 ahh ok i try it Nov 25 00:26:36 ok, might want to do a bit more reading tho first Nov 25 00:26:38 you know what happened to the guy who wanted to launch satellites into orbit Nov 25 00:26:41 at talk.maemo.org Nov 25 00:26:42 with a cannon Nov 25 00:26:50 hahaaha Nov 25 00:26:58 bunch of snipped dick kikes murdered him Nov 25 00:27:02 HELL! wonder when somebody is going to ask me to take the duty to lead a maemo/meego project Nov 25 00:27:35 probably I'm too much a noob about such involved topic Nov 25 00:27:37 sry it is sooo much work and soo less of time sorry but this is the way you guys rock Nov 25 00:28:00 don't innovate Handyspacko Nov 25 00:28:04 you might get murdered Nov 25 00:30:17 * DocScrutinizer wanders off to think about cedent infrastructure for alterego to sell his app Nov 25 00:30:32 decent even Nov 25 00:42:59 444 nicks Nov 25 00:43:06 yep Nov 25 00:43:45 lemme cure that Nov 25 00:44:11 how many years ... YEARS Nov 25 00:44:21 has it been since we heard from Milhouse Nov 25 00:44:39 not to mention these hundreds of finns who just lurk and lurk and lurk Nov 25 00:45:17 what are they Nov 25 00:45:20 fucking ants? Nov 25 00:45:43 ants don't fuck - usually Nov 25 00:46:18 a fucking deserverd asskicking Nov 25 00:46:32 well , no - it was chaotic Nov 25 00:47:13 you guys up for some great music from minneapolis? Nov 25 00:47:17 1991-1994? Nov 25 00:47:25 super advanced Nov 25 01:46:18 http://rapidshare.com/files/432959203/pupnik-enjoy.mp3 Nov 25 01:53:16 hi Nov 25 01:53:26 just got my n900 Nov 25 01:54:27 my geek greeting, right after loading irssi goes to you Nov 25 01:55:38 Hi! Nov 25 01:55:48 xchat works too, and I prefer it personally. Nov 25 01:57:34 wow. xchat... Nov 25 01:58:02 trying to unzip a file... Nov 25 01:58:24 unzip is in tools repo I think. Nov 25 01:59:07 http://www.alamopc.org/pcalamode/reviews/archive1/rev306.html Nov 25 01:59:11 err Nov 25 01:59:18 http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip/ Nov 25 01:59:26 though there is also an adon for the file manager Nov 25 02:01:47 i like terminals but this time i,m looking for some integration Nov 25 02:52:48 howdy **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 25 02:59:58 2010