**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 02 02:59:58 2010
Dec 02 03:00:42 <DocScrutinizer> that's not exactly relevant when doing a number of samples across a repetitive signal
Dec 02 03:01:25 <BCMM_> might be using words wrong, but what i meant was "stuff has to happen between exposures, therefore framerate will be less than 1/exposure"
Dec 02 03:01:33 <DocScrutinizer> if only you can trigger the shot down to the 1/1000 resolution precision
Dec 02 03:07:41 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM_: you know how the old e.g. atary video digitizers for still video worked? They took 400 pixel per frame (1/60s), exactly one pixel per svan line. You had to keep the video signal steady for 640 frames so the digitizer was able to grab the whole image
Dec 02 03:07:50 <DocScrutinizer> ATARI*
Dec 02 03:08:10 <DocScrutinizer> scan*
Dec 02 03:09:10 <DocScrutinizer> CIR signals are similarly steady over time
Dec 02 03:09:34 <nomis> DocScrutinizer: do you remember that I think the first iphone produced massively warped videos, because they did exactly this?   :-)
Dec 02 03:10:02 <nomis> i.e. exposing/reading the sensor line by line.
Dec 02 03:10:15 <BCMM_> you mean photos of moving things?
Dec 02 03:10:29 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM_: photos aka still video
Dec 02 03:10:44 <BCMM_> there are some spectacularly wrong iphone pics of spinning things
Dec 02 03:10:47 <nomis> BCMM_: or was it photos? I don't recall exactly.
Dec 02 03:11:31 <nomis> http://www.flickr.com/photos/djeedub/2692221975/
Dec 02 03:12:04 <BCMM_> DocScrutinizer: anyway, you lost me with that arguement, either because i don't know much about cir or because i should sleep
Dec 02 03:13:26 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM_: CIR is sending a repetitive signal, means it repeats in a constant manner in a fixed framerate. You can sample such a signal to arbitrary detail, by picking just one sample out of every period
Dec 02 03:13:52 <BCMM_> aah, i see
Dec 02 03:13:55 <nomis> ...hoping that the capture framerate is relatively prime to the IR "framerate".
Dec 02 03:13:59 <DocScrutinizer> well, precision is limited by sum of all jitter you got in your set
Dec 02 03:14:26 <BCMM_> pattern repeats, so you can take a lot longer than the length of the pattern to record the pattern
Dec 02 03:14:34 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
Dec 02 03:14:38 <BCMM_> nomis: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jerlich/sets/72157614852342118/
Dec 02 03:14:54 <nomis> BCMM_: oh wow  :-)
Dec 02 03:15:19 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Dec 02 03:15:46 <nomis> Hmm, my DSL just reconnected, telling me that I urgently need to go to bed. It is 4.07am. Night all   :-)
Dec 02 03:15:57 <BCMM_> http://gemssty.com/2009/01/22/iphone-camera-effect/ someone linked this one here a few weeks ago, i think
Dec 02 03:16:27 <DocScrutinizer> night nomis
Dec 02 03:16:43 <BCMM_> hah, i've done that too
Dec 02 03:16:57 <BCMM_> sadly, there's cable here...
Dec 02 03:17:13 <BCMM_> but i'm off too
Dec 02 03:18:14 <DocScrutinizer> W*T*F??! snow effect js :-(((
Dec 02 03:19:04 * DocScrutinizer adds gemssty.com to his blacklist
Dec 02 03:21:02 <DocScrutinizer> nomis: of course, like with any oscilloscope, when using sampling you need to tune your sampling freq to the "framerate" of the observed signal
Dec 02 03:21:36 <DocScrutinizer> nomis: there our knowledge about what we expect to see comnes in
Dec 02 03:22:08 <DocScrutinizer> we can tell from our results if we tuned correctly or not
Dec 02 03:24:56 <DocScrutinizer> in fact, as we know about the complete limited set of possible input signals, we can distinguish between them by much less precise probing results then what I sketched above
Dec 02 03:26:30 <DocScrutinizer> a sampling with a sample freq of 50/s and a sample window of maybe 1/100s might be perfectly sufficient to distinguish what signal we got
Dec 02 03:27:13 <DocScrutinizer> it happens 50/s freq and 1/100s apperture time is what we might get with ordinary video
Dec 02 03:37:17 <DocScrutinizer> btw the task to detect a CIR in a video is much like the GPS filtering. You compare what you got to all possible signal patterns by running the predefined patterns thru correlators together with the video. The correlator with the highest output is indicating what input signal you got - it's the same one as that used to create the reference pattern you fed to that correlator
Dec 02 03:38:52 <DocScrutinizer> creating reference patterns can be done by a model of the cam chip, feeding it with original CIR signals
Dec 02 03:39:50 <DocScrutinizer> s/original/synthesized "original"/
Dec 02 03:39:51 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: creating reference patterns can be done by a model of the cam chip, feeding it with synthesized "original" CIR signals
Dec 02 04:00:03 <lcuk> nomis, i missed scrollback, but did bcmm indicate that the camera on n900 can be forced into a REALLY low resolution with high framerate?
Dec 02 04:00:11 <lcuk> something like 16*16 or 32*32
Dec 02 04:00:16 <lcuk> like a mouse sensor?
Dec 02 04:00:53 <lcuk> initial testing I tried I couldnt get the camera to work by specifying a framerate (the n810 used to let me)
Dec 02 04:03:18 <myu> does anyone have a favorite web browser for the n900?
Dec 02 04:04:42 <lcuk> myu, yes, microb
Dec 02 04:06:24 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: that's what we were discussing. BCMM had doubts it can be done
Dec 02 04:07:24 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: the framerate is probably contrlled by OMAP's cam interface
Dec 02 04:07:58 <DocScrutinizer> and range limited by both OMAP cam interface and cam chip specs
Dec 02 04:11:38 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, scrollback indicates its for IR reading
Dec 02 04:11:42 <lcuk> i have a different purpose
Dec 02 04:12:04 <DocScrutinizer> yep, but the method intended is similar
Dec 02 04:12:11 <lcuk> yip, hence me perking
Dec 02 04:12:18 <DocScrutinizer> low resolution and high framerate
Dec 02 04:13:10 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, the main camera is controlled via I2C-3, the bus that also has accelerometer and BTFM
Dec 02 04:13:58 <DocScrutinizer> we'd need the datasheet to understand how to talk to this I2C set of registers
Dec 02 04:14:08 <DocScrutinizer> not how, rather *what*
Dec 02 04:14:54 <DocScrutinizer> looks rather straight forward, once we got the cam module datasheet
Dec 02 04:15:36 <DocScrutinizer> video data interface is a 2 line differential (clk+/- and data+/-)
Dec 02 04:16:24 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, or just talk v4l
Dec 02 04:16:36 <DocScrutinizer> quite certainly you need to configure OMAP hardware to meet the particular signal
Dec 02 04:16:47 <lcuk> perhaps
Dec 02 04:16:55 <lcuk> the n810 camera surprised me with its flexibility
Dec 02 04:17:02 <lcuk> just iwth normal interfaces
Dec 02 04:17:10 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Dec 02 04:17:19 <SpeedEvil> The front o the back ds?
Dec 02 04:17:22 <SpeedEvil> camera
Dec 02 04:17:27 <DocScrutinizer> main
Dec 02 04:17:30 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, main camera
Dec 02 04:17:32 <SpeedEvil> the back camera is sort-of-there
Dec 02 04:17:33 <lcuk> the one with flash
Dec 02 04:17:37 <SpeedEvil> datasheet
Dec 02 04:17:42 <SpeedEvil> not a great datasheet
Dec 02 04:17:55 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Camera_Sensor
Dec 02 04:17:55 <DocScrutinizer> linky?
Dec 02 04:17:59 <DocScrutinizer> heh
Dec 02 04:18:25 <lcuk> cool
Dec 02 04:18:29 <DocScrutinizer> meh, dead
Dec 02 04:18:45 <DocScrutinizer> ahhh finally
Dec 02 04:29:05 <myu> hey anyone seen a bug on easye debian
Dec 02 04:29:16 <myu> where the packet installer just doesnt work
Dec 02 04:29:25 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: ok, if it maters: the data clk is generated by cam module, not by OMAP
Dec 02 04:29:27 <myu> unless you do it from the n900's menu
Dec 02 04:50:22 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: no that can't be real X-P : ""About electrical shutter, will be effected 2 flames after.""
Dec 02 04:52:05 <SpeedEvil> :)
Dec 02 04:52:11 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you got any useable data in that table on p.9-11 ? I only got empty cells, except those in yellow
Dec 02 04:53:17 <DocScrutinizer> tbh that's one of the ugliest most crappy ds I ever seen
Dec 02 04:53:25 <Jay_BEE> howdy
Dec 02 04:55:19 <SpeedEvil> yes
Dec 02 04:55:35 <SpeedEvil> I've not really looked at it in more detail
Dec 02 04:57:59 <DocScrutinizer> also I'm painfully missing that embedded object "Command Setting_v1.7.xls"
Dec 02 04:58:13 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Dec 02 04:58:21 <SpeedEvil> not seen any more than the bare doc
Dec 02 05:05:05 <DocScrutinizer> hah, actually you can "activate OLE object" to make it pop up. I *hate* .doc
Dec 02 05:05:28 <Termana> good morning
Dec 02 05:08:00 <DocScrutinizer> morning Termana
Dec 02 05:08:03 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk:
Dec 02 05:08:10 <DocScrutinizer> Formula is as follows
Dec 02 05:08:12 <DocScrutinizer> VCO [MHz] = EXTCLK * CKVAR_DIV / 3
Dec 02 05:08:13 <DocScrutinizer> CCP2 [Mbps] = VCO / { ( LVDSCK_DIV + 1 ) * ( VCO_DIV + 1 ) }
Dec 02 05:08:32 <DocScrutinizer> spck [MHz] = VCO / { ( SPCK_DIV +1 ) * ( VCO_DIV + 1 )
Dec 02 05:09:10 <DocScrutinizer> Frame rate [fps] = { spck / ( IA_H * IA_V ) } * 1,000,000  ( IA_H and IA_V : H and V values of Image area readout with blanking. )
Dec 02 05:11:19 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: 10-1 Picture size setting
Dec 02 05:12:49 <DocScrutinizer> H_COUNT[10:0] -> selection of  horizontal clock count including blanking
Dec 02 05:14:30 <DocScrutinizer> V_COUNT[12:0] -> Selection of total Vertical line count including blanking. Setting rage is from 84d to 2730d.
Dec 02 05:15:01 <DocScrutinizer> so minimum frame size is 84 lines
Dec 02 05:15:22 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: seems ok for mouse
Dec 02 05:36:06 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: max exposure time is obviously frame time - 4 lines. So for long exposure times you might want to reduce the clocks as of above formula
Dec 02 05:37:46 <DocScrutinizer> I jusz wonder if this indigestible crap looks any better whn opened in M$ word, than it does in OOo
Dec 02 06:15:58 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: SpeedEvil: you might be interested in Stingray_sensor_mode_setting_calculator OLE object2 in SMIA95_AF_camera module_APL_090511
Dec 02 06:22:51 <SpeedEvil> interesting
Dec 02 06:22:56 <SpeedEvil> now asleep though
Dec 02 06:23:53 <DocScrutinizer> gnite
Dec 02 06:27:01 <slonopotamus> huh. /me got X not starting on desktop due to clock skew
Dec 02 06:29:48 <RST38h> morning slonopotamus
Dec 02 06:30:47 <slonopotamus> RST38h: smth like that, yep
Dec 02 06:32:18 <RST38h> "Why 10% of Your Friends on Twitter and Facebook Will Be Nonhuman in Five Years"
Dec 02 06:32:41 <RST38h> (and then they provide a lame explanation =))
Dec 02 06:33:33 * slonopotamus has neither and doesn't care
Dec 02 06:33:49 <RST38h> Same here
Dec 02 06:38:09 <DocScrutinizer> what's twitter and facebook?
Dec 02 06:38:58 <RST38h> some websites
Dec 02 06:39:05 <DocScrutinizer> orly?
Dec 02 06:39:15 <DocScrutinizer> guess I don't care :-D
Dec 02 06:40:16 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: websites for those who failed to setup irc client :/
Dec 02 06:40:20 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: thanks for pointing me at that datasheet anyway
Dec 02 06:40:38 <DocScrutinizer> slonopotamus: yeah, that's what they told me
Dec 02 06:43:48 <timeless_mbp> slonopotamus: help
Dec 02 06:43:57 <timeless_mbp> how do i find an op.fi branch in HEL?
Dec 02 06:44:04 <slonopotamus> so 1. kdm has ServerTimeout and kills X if it didn't start in that time. 2. i have ntp-date run on boot 3. i enabled parallel startup so X and ntp-date run in parallel. 4. for some reason, systoh was = no so system clock wasn't synced to bios. 5. one lucky day X didn't startup anymore because bios clock was > 1 min late so ntp-date advanced it too much so kdm thought timeout expired and killed X :D
Dec 02 06:44:06 <timeless_mbp> https://www.op.fi/op?id=10000&srcpl=1 is useless
Dec 02 06:44:45 * pupnik sets out tea
Dec 02 06:44:51 <RST38h> slono: kinky
Dec 02 06:45:58 <pupnik> slonopotamus: hooray for programmers assuming a correct clock
Dec 02 06:46:38 <pupnik> e.g. pandaboard doesn't have a rtc
Dec 02 06:46:44 <RST38h> pupnik: Some things, you just have to assume to be working
Dec 02 06:46:57 * RST38h has a horror story about the clock btw
Dec 02 06:49:13 <slonopotamus> meh, network issues
Dec 02 06:49:27 <slonopotamus> did you receive my msg about kdm? :)
Dec 02 06:49:47 <pupnik> yes
Dec 02 06:50:01 <slonopotamus> hehe :)
Dec 02 06:50:32 <RST38h> See this: http://www.htl-steyr.ac.at/~morg/pcinfo/hardware/interrupts/inte2do0.htm
Dec 02 06:51:22 <RST38h> What this little page isn't telling you is that once in a while your CX:DX will tick backwards
Dec 02 06:52:49 <DocScrutinizer> slonopotamus: haha, nice story :-D
Dec 02 06:54:44 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: maybe i should post it to dailywtf :)
Dec 02 06:55:39 <DocScrutinizer> slonopotamus: actually there's a reason for the suggested sneaking sysclock adjust mode
Dec 02 06:56:12 <DocScrutinizer> one of the cases where it actually bites you to do what's deprecated: adjust systime hard
Dec 02 06:58:31 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: err... the point is that i _didnt_ adjust system clock
Dec 02 06:58:47 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: so over time clock shift became bigger
Dec 02 06:58:51 <DocScrutinizer> you didn't, but ntp did
Dec 02 06:59:13 <slonopotamus> until one day when it grew up to ~ value of ServerTimeout :)
Dec 02 06:59:14 <DocScrutinizer> bzzzzzz, you're out
Dec 02 06:59:21 <DocScrutinizer> system clock, not hw clock
Dec 02 06:59:45 <slonopotamus> oh
Dec 02 07:00:08 <slonopotamus> how you want to adjust time without... err... adjusting it?
Dec 02 07:00:36 <slonopotamus> i did adjust system, but didn't touch hw, right
Dec 02 07:00:38 <DocScrutinizer> there's a pull-it mode
Dec 02 07:00:56 <DocScrutinizer> lemme mangrep it for you
Dec 02 07:02:27 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: i just ran ntp-date/ntp with default settings
Dec 02 07:02:32 <slonopotamus> the only non-default thing here is enabling of parallel service startup
Dec 02 07:02:38 <DocScrutinizer> If       the  -x  option is included on the command line, the clock will never be stepped and only slew corrections will be       used.
Dec 02 07:02:53 <DocScrutinizer> man ntpd
Dec 02 07:03:59 <DocScrutinizer> managing times/clocks in unix is an art
Dec 02 07:04:11 <DocScrutinizer> ...that very few seem to master
Dec 02 07:05:52 <slonopotamus> i just used default init script
Dec 02 07:11:41 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: actually it's kdm bug. kernel does provide functions for _relative_ waits that are not affected by system time changes
Dec 02 07:11:54 <DocScrutinizer> slonopotamus: you wouldn't believe it but most init scripts are wrong on this
Dec 02 07:12:32 <DocScrutinizer> slonopotamus: e.g. it's really a bad idea to do a hwclock --systohc on system shutdown
Dec 02 07:13:40 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: that's exactly how i fixed this bug
Dec 02 07:13:47 <DocScrutinizer> better have a cronjob to do something along the line >hwclock --set `netdate`
Dec 02 07:13:49 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: why it's bad?
Dec 02 07:14:49 <DocScrutinizer> slonopotamus: because your system clock can be (and more often than not actually is) off by some seconds when shutting down
Dec 02 07:16:02 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: afaik, i have ntpd on that box so it should correct.
Dec 02 07:16:47 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: and it is a desktop with on/off ~ twice a day
Dec 02 07:16:56 <DocScrutinizer> now hwclock updates /etc/adjtime to ""correct"" the perceived skew of hw clock (which actually is a skew of sysclock), which results in massively incorrect time after it got ""adjusted"" - on next boot
Dec 02 07:18:23 <DocScrutinizer> as an absolute rule, you MUST NOT use hwclock --systohc on any occasion other than when you *know* you synced sysclock at this very second (or at least minute)
Dec 02 07:18:27 <DocScrutinizer> ~2119
Dec 02 07:18:27 <infobot> The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.
Dec 02 07:18:42 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: sysclock is constantly corrected by running ntpd, i don't see why you expect massively incorrect time
Dec 02 07:18:58 <DocScrutinizer> that's why a hwclock --set `netdate`  is way better
Dec 02 07:20:02 <DocScrutinizer> slonopotamus: if your network is down you'll probably not get much of your ntpd
Dec 02 07:22:21 <DocScrutinizer> see, this is the scheme used in most initscripts, and it *usually* works as everybody assumes same as you do. ""my sysclock is correct"". If so then probably you'd never need any hwclock. It's the one time in a year when it's NOT correct on system shutdown, that will start an ever growing mess
Dec 02 07:22:30 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: well, i just told you what problems i got _without_ systohc sync :)
Dec 02 07:23:05 <DocScrutinizer> and I told you how to handle it in a better way than most distros do by default
Dec 02 07:24:02 <slonopotamus> hwclock is needed to get some time until first clock sync is done
Dec 02 07:24:24 <DocScrutinizer> why set hwclock to sysclock, assuming you had a sync to ntp recently? When you as well can use ntpdate (or ntptime/nettime whatever) to make *sure* hwclock is set to a correct time
Dec 02 07:24:46 <DocScrutinizer> slonopotamus: do you think I need to learn about what for we need hwclock
Dec 02 07:24:48 <DocScrutinizer> ?
Dec 02 07:25:30 <slonopotamus> err
Dec 02 07:25:31 <slonopotamus> gentoo does hctosys very early in boot process
Dec 02 07:25:43 <NooBmonk3y> urggghhh its early
Dec 02 07:25:47 <slonopotamus> and without hctosys we'll have zero time without network, no?
Dec 02 07:25:54 <NooBmonk3y> and snowy.......
Dec 02 07:26:16 <DocScrutinizer> slonopotamus: what's your problem with --hctosys?
Dec 02 07:27:07 <DocScrutinizer> or are you still teaching me?
Dec 02 07:27:14 <NooBmonk3y> http://bit.ly/fh21fc
Dec 02 07:27:46 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: original one :)
Dec 02 07:27:47 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: hw clock became too much late
Dec 02 07:27:47 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: and i suspect things would be even worse if hw clock has ahead of actual time
Dec 02 07:28:23 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, you completely lost me
Dec 02 07:31:11 <slonopotamus_> DocScrutinizer: so, you suggest never writing to hardware clock?
Dec 02 07:32:16 <DocScrutinizer> slonopotamus: does >hwclock --set `ntpdate`  look like I suggested that?
Dec 02 07:32:36 <slonopotamus_> okay :)
Dec 02 07:32:37 <DocScrutinizer> have a cron job that executes something like that once a day
Dec 02 07:33:08 <slonopotamus_> still, it is funny :P
Dec 02 07:44:52 <DocScrutinizer> the major annoyance is ntpdate has been retired, and ntpd -q isn't exactly a full replacement
Dec 02 07:45:46 <DocScrutinizer> seems nowadays there's no more command to get ntp-time without same moment messing around with sysclock
Dec 02 07:47:54 <DocScrutinizer> so the contemporary approach would be a >ntpd -qg && hwclock --systohc; in crontab
Dec 02 07:48:49 <DocScrutinizer> annoying, really
Dec 02 07:51:29 * NooBmonk3y yawns
Dec 02 07:54:16 <NooBmonk3y> Morning Termana
Dec 02 07:54:37 <Termana> morning NooBmonk3y
Dec 02 07:54:41 <NooBmonk3y> :)
Dec 02 07:54:49 <NooBmonk3y> its oh so quiet in here :|
Dec 02 07:56:45 * NooBmonk3y w00000000ts
Dec 02 07:56:48 <NooBmonk3y> MohammadAG, you are a legend
Dec 02 07:56:57 <NooBmonk3y> used your control/rules and it now packages!
Dec 02 07:57:18 <NooBmonk3y> i think there may be something borking the rules or control file in qt creator 2.0.1 :|
Dec 02 07:57:39 <NooBmonk3y> (well 2.1.0 RC)
Dec 02 07:57:56 <NooBmonk3y> wb doc
Dec 02 07:57:57 <NooBmonk3y> right
Dec 02 07:57:59 <NooBmonk3y> off to work
Dec 02 07:58:01 <NooBmonk3y> have a good day alls
Dec 02 07:59:33 <DocScrutinizer> meh, dsl down and killed my linux network subsystem, had to do an init.d/network restart
Dec 02 08:36:08 <mece> Gaah! Why doesn't this thing work? Could someone explain how Component.onCompleted: positionViewAtIndex should work? This thing does nothing. NOTHING!
Dec 02 08:36:22 * mece is talking about qml, in case you wondered.
Dec 02 08:40:36 <thp> mece: #qt-qml might be a good place to ask question :)
Dec 02 08:49:50 <mece> thp, oh there's a specific qml room :D
Dec 02 08:49:54 <mece> thp, thanks
Dec 02 09:05:21 <DocScrutinizer> wtf is qml?
Dec 02 09:12:18 <mece> DocScrutinizer, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+qt+qml&l=1
Dec 02 09:12:26 <mece> DocScrutinizer, :P
Dec 02 09:13:48 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah, I guess I will get, like, infinity/26^3 hits
Dec 02 09:20:09 <Venemo_N900> hi
Dec 02 09:29:09 <mece> DocScrutinizer51, I made it "feeling lucky" so you wouldn't have to scroll :)
Dec 02 09:34:46 <jave> how would I go about making a n900 access internet through a windoze pc connected over usb?
Dec 02 09:36:12 <Venemo_N900> usb networking?
Dec 02 09:37:14 <DocScrutinizer> err, isn't that #1 FAQ and hasn't been answered to yield a convenient solution a single time yet
Dec 02 09:37:32 <jave> ok Thanks
Dec 02 09:37:44 <jave> sorry then
Dec 02 09:37:58 <Appiah> jave: if you install the ovi suite you can get a "connect to internet" button :)
Dec 02 09:38:04 <DocScrutinizer> it seems it's not really possible
Dec 02 09:38:12 <nidO> Appiah: thats not what he needs
Dec 02 09:38:36 <Appiah> oh the n900 using the host comp for internet
Dec 02 09:38:59 <Appiah> think I did that on linux O_o not windows
Dec 02 09:39:18 <jave> it ought to be possible at least, I did it on linux
Dec 02 09:39:27 <jave> windoze I dont know so well
Dec 02 09:39:34 <chem|st> gooooooood morning viehhet... wrong channel...
Dec 02 09:39:41 <DocScrutinizer> it will not pan out with maemo's connection manager
Dec 02 09:40:07 <jave> ok, but doing some ifconfig magic in a script would be fine on the n900
Dec 02 09:40:14 <Appiah> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Starting_USB_network_mode_with_Windows <-- is that it?
Dec 02 09:40:20 <Appiah> or something in the right way...
Dec 02 09:41:24 <DocScrutinizer> usually I want people talking other people into USB networking, just to find them coming back asking "now I can ping internet via PC, but still microb/HAM/whatever is asking me to start up a network connection"
Dec 02 09:41:58 <DocScrutinizer> s/want/watch/
Dec 02 09:41:59 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: usually I watch people talking other people into USB networking, just to find them coming back asking "now I can ping internet via PC, but still microb/HAM/whatever is asking me to start up a network connection"
Dec 02 09:42:54 <Appiah> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Using_USB_networking_for_Maemo_applications ?
Dec 02 09:43:46 <jave> Thanks
Dec 02 09:44:01 <DocScrutinizer> Appiah: yep, you won the prize :-D
Dec 02 09:45:51 <Appiah> Yay!
Dec 02 09:46:29 <toggles> Appiah: the prize is an iphone
Dec 02 09:46:50 <jave> ouch...
Dec 02 09:49:25 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: did that remote disaster work out yesterday?
Dec 02 09:49:48 <DocScrutinizer> nope, he fixed his original remote :-P
Dec 02 09:50:04 <Appiah> wow
Dec 02 09:50:08 <Appiah> do want
Dec 02 09:50:09 <chem|st> lol
Dec 02 09:50:10 <Appiah> so I can sell it
Dec 02 09:51:22 <chem|st> Appiah: I sat between two iphone people (which actually got iphones) yesterday... no fun
Dec 02 09:51:54 <crashanddie> yay, it's iPhone users bash time
Dec 02 09:52:25 <alterego> Yyay!
Dec 02 09:52:39 <DocScrutinizer> it's iPhone users bash season
Dec 02 09:53:15 <DocScrutinizer> ...since years now
Dec 02 09:53:27 <crashanddie> Let's bash n900 users
Dec 02 09:53:41 <DocScrutinizer> there's too few of them
Dec 02 09:54:05 <crashanddie> "Haha, I can crack WEP networks with MY N900, you silly iPhone user! Look, let me just drop to the terminal and run aircrack... oh shit, is there a power outlet somewhere?"
Dec 02 09:54:06 <alterego> We love minorities here!
Dec 02 09:54:28 <alterego> Heh
Dec 02 09:54:58 <crashanddie> "Haha, I have the source code to the whole operating system on my N900, you silly iPhone user. I hope you enjoy your locked down system." iPhone user: "HAM source code?" N900 user: "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"
Dec 02 09:55:01 <chem|st> mv 'find / -type f -iname *iPhone*user*' /dev/null
Dec 02 09:55:29 <DocScrutinizer> err wut? what's wrong with HAM source?
Dec 02 09:55:56 <alterego> HAM is open. Just links with closed crap.
Dec 02 09:56:00 <crashanddie> "Haha, everytime Apple releases an update for the iPhone, you have to pay for it!" iPhone user: "PR 1.4?" N900 user: "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"
Dec 02 09:56:23 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Dec 02 09:56:31 <DocScrutinizer> I'm happy with pr1.2
Dec 02 09:56:34 <crashanddie> same here
Dec 02 09:56:47 <alterego> I'm pretty happy w/ 1.3 tbh
Dec 02 09:56:55 <chem|st> crashanddie: we have apt... there will be 1.4...
Dec 02 09:57:09 <DocScrutinizer> just sucks all my apps can't get any updates since PR1.3
Dec 02 09:57:21 <crashanddie> "Haha, iPhone users are morons because they pay for all their apps" -- Cuz we all know how good we've treated are game devs... And btw, Angry Birds, ovi store. 'Nuff said.
Dec 02 09:57:30 <DocScrutinizer> even worse, I couln't re-install them
Dec 02 09:57:32 <crashanddie> s/are/our/
Dec 02 09:57:33 <infobot> crashanddie meant: "Haha, iPhone users our morons because they pay for all their apps" -- Cuz we all know how good we've treated are game devs... And btw, Angry Birds, ovi store. 'Nuff said.
Dec 02 09:57:38 <crashanddie> crapper
Dec 02 09:58:30 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Dec 02 09:59:43 <chem|st> more important to me, properly integrated email client with gpg support and threading, autoconnect for wpa-enterprise networks
Dec 02 10:00:42 <DocScrutinizer> both not on my agenda, but I can understand it
Dec 02 10:00:48 <chem|st> since 1.3 I get this "no known networks in range" crap everywhere I know more than one network
Dec 02 10:01:04 <DocScrutinizer> eeew
Dec 02 10:01:21 <chem|st> exactly
Dec 02 10:01:56 <DocScrutinizer> we should start a wikipage "why we refused to install PR1.3"
Dec 02 10:02:18 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: next time I gonna flash I will do 1.2 again
Dec 02 10:02:56 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: no luck. As mentioned above I think you can't install most of the apps anymore, for PR1.2
Dec 02 10:03:04 <nomis> moin.
Dec 02 10:03:11 <DocScrutinizer> at least all those in extras-testing and *-devel
Dec 02 10:03:18 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: nice
Dec 02 10:03:23 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Dec 02 10:03:38 <DocScrutinizer> nokia missed again to split the repo properly
Dec 02 10:03:39 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: but you arent able to use it as carnavigation with 1.3 anymore
Dec 02 10:04:22 <chem|st> doing version releases looking like SSU is not a good idea
Dec 02 10:04:23 <edheldil> DocScrutinizer:  do you mean that even after reflash to PR1.2, you are still unable to install apps?
Dec 02 10:04:47 <DocScrutinizer> rationale: "-devel (and -testing) are not supposed to be stable, so what use is there in keeping old versions for PR1.2?"
Dec 02 10:05:02 <DocScrutinizer> edheldil: yes, exactly
Dec 02 10:05:50 <DocScrutinizer> this doesn't apply for maemo-extras, but I think it appies for most pkgs from *-testing and *-devel
Dec 02 10:07:16 <edheldil> ah, you mean that there are not packages in testing and devel for PR1.2
Dec 02 10:07:17 <DocScrutinizer> plus Nokia still doesn't offer to do a proper *FULL* backup, as in dd if=<rootfs> of=<uSD-img-file>
Dec 02 10:07:37 <DocScrutinizer> edheldil: yes
Dec 02 10:08:22 <edheldil> has not somebody created boot menu backup for this?
Dec 02 10:08:55 <DocScrutinizer> yes, but that's neither official nor in extras
Dec 02 10:09:16 <DocScrutinizer> nor is it properly tested and certified to work
Dec 02 10:09:20 <DocScrutinizer> for all I know
Dec 02 10:09:44 <jacekowski> crashanddie: it's caled socket in civilised world
Dec 02 10:09:52 <chem|st> dd'ing a nand isnt a good idea
Dec 02 10:10:17 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: well, you can't dd mounted filesystem
Dec 02 10:10:23 <DocScrutinizer> so I could try if it works for me, and find myself with a broken PR1.2  and have no way to restore it
Dec 02 10:10:27 <edheldil> chem|st:  why?
Dec 02 10:10:38 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: I know
Dec 02 10:11:27 <DocScrutinizer> edheldil: you can, but you'll get a mess
Dec 02 10:12:02 <chem|st> edheldil: + what jacekowski said, reading may not be that a problem but writing it will mess the bad sectors
Dec 02 10:12:17 <jacekowski> nope
Dec 02 10:12:22 <DocScrutinizer> dd is like a snapshot. You know from photography the target shouldn't move while taking the snapshot
Dec 02 10:12:34 <jacekowski> asuming that badsectors are not going to move
Dec 02 10:12:40 <jacekowski> and i'm pretty m
Dec 02 10:12:51 <edheldil> nand manages bad sectors internally, the os won't get them, will it?
Dec 02 10:12:52 <jacekowski> pretty sure that badsectors are done in controller in omap
Dec 02 10:12:54 <jacekowski> not in software
Dec 02 10:13:10 <jacekowski> edheldil: nah, badsectors are not touched by nand itself
Dec 02 10:13:14 <chem|st> jacekowski: that will change over time
Dec 02 10:13:17 <jacekowski> it's up to controller or software
Dec 02 10:13:39 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: WUT?
Dec 02 10:14:20 <DocScrutinizer> no bad sectors aware controler there
Dec 02 10:14:23 <chem|st> jacekowski: that sounds more like flash what you are talking about
Dec 02 10:14:35 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Dec 02 10:14:54 <jacekowski> nope
Dec 02 10:14:54 <DocScrutinizer> nand basically has no controller
Dec 02 10:14:58 <jacekowski> yes
Dec 02 10:15:00 <jacekowski> no
Dec 02 10:15:04 <jacekowski> there is controler in omap
Dec 02 10:15:08 <chem|st> jacekowski: make up your mind
Dec 02 10:15:15 <jacekowski> that talks to onenand
Dec 02 10:15:42 <HRH_H_Crab> hi, i wonder if someone can help. i have the enhanced kernel for power users installed (at least its appearing in my list of uninstallable packages, and i know its been working in the past)
Dec 02 10:15:49 <HRH_H_Crab> but it doesnt seem to be my current kernel.
Dec 02 10:16:04 <HRH_H_Crab> i have no ipv6 module or iptables modules
Dec 02 10:16:07 <HRH_H_Crab> can anyone assist?
Dec 02 10:16:22 <jacekowski> uninstall it
Dec 02 10:16:25 <jacekowski> and install again
Dec 02 10:16:26 <HRH_H_Crab> (if i look at the list of installable packages i cant see any kernels)
Dec 02 10:16:28 <HRH_H_Crab> o.k.
Dec 02 10:16:32 <HRH_H_Crab> i'll give that a try!
Dec 02 10:16:35 <HRH_H_Crab> thanks
Dec 02 10:22:32 <HRH_H_Crab> jacekowski: hmmm
Dec 02 10:22:42 <HRH_H_Crab> it says it cant uninstall it...
Dec 02 10:23:15 <mece> is it just me that thinks kim jong-il couldn't come up with a good name for his kid so he just named him what they had been calling him all along: young one
Dec 02 10:27:12 <ynave> hye !
Dec 02 10:27:54 <ynave> someone tried to setup maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh on ubuntu 10.10 ? i'have alway same error : Error opening terminal: xterm.
Dec 02 10:27:54 <ynave>  
Dec 02 10:27:59 <ynave> but xterm is installed
Dec 02 10:28:07 <pupnik> I'm going to have some fake-crab ramen and think about that
Dec 02 10:30:31 <HRH_H_Crab> "can only be uninstalled with the application Deinstall-kernel-power"
Dec 02 10:30:39 <HRH_H_Crab> but i cant find that application anywhere?!
Dec 02 10:31:06 <pupnik> ubuntu breaks a lot of things
Dec 02 10:31:45 <pupnik> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation   ynave, folowing this i hope
Dec 02 10:32:15 <ynave> pupnik:  already following :s  that was good with previous ubunt version
Dec 02 10:33:06 <chem|st> ynave: get a proper distribution...
Dec 02 10:33:17 <ynave> lol no troll please :)
Dec 02 10:33:39 <chem|st> ynave: that was no trolling... I am for real!
Dec 02 10:33:55 <ynave> wich proper distribution ?
Dec 02 10:34:10 <pupnik> what about setting debug output for the sh script
Dec 02 10:34:10 <chem|st> ynave: starter or expert?
Dec 02 10:34:10 <ynave> maemo give package to setup for ubuntu/debian, just easy :(
Dec 02 10:34:22 <ynave> middle expert
Dec 02 10:34:47 <ynave> but ubuntu is good for working, etc.. I've no time to setup everything now
Dec 02 10:35:02 <chem|st> and you are not tired of ubuntu yet?
Dec 02 10:35:10 <ynave> little yes
Dec 02 10:35:15 <chem|st> ok
Dec 02 10:35:21 <ynave> but... time is money
Dec 02 10:35:43 <chem|st> for productive environments you may use debian
Dec 02 10:36:17 <chem|st> once setup you may leave it running in that state until someone needs newer libs...
Dec 02 10:36:35 <pupnik> would set +e help debug the script?
Dec 02 10:37:13 <pupnik> chem|st: yes, with debian there are less people working to break my distro
Dec 02 10:37:30 <ynave> yes I love debian from many times
Dec 02 10:37:35 <ynave> hum just find a workaround : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65630&highlight=ubuntu+10.10+sdk
Dec 02 10:37:47 <pupnik> oh nice
Dec 02 10:38:49 <chem|st> pupnik: that is what ubuntu is looking like... just yesterday I was told that once upgraded with apt-get the auto-updater refused to work anymore... another very good reason to not use it
Dec 02 10:40:12 <ynave> erf does'nt work :s
Dec 02 10:41:24 <pupnik> it's kind of like ubuntu is the debian for kids who want to change the world
Dec 02 10:41:25 <pupnik> lo
Dec 02 10:41:47 <pupnik> and debian is like the guys 20 years older going 'wut?'
Dec 02 10:51:11 <sivang> Morning
Dec 02 11:09:11 <rtyler> anybody had their power connector fail?
Dec 02 11:09:14 <rtyler> on an n900 that is
Dec 02 11:09:29 <chem|st> rtyler: please elaborate
Dec 02 11:09:38 <rtyler> http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/nokia-n900-micro-usb-connectors-prone-to-failure/
Dec 02 11:09:42 <rtyler> crap like that :(
Dec 02 11:10:37 <chem|st> rtyler: I did not and most of n900 didn't but people crying are more common to be in public than people just having a working phone
Dec 02 11:10:50 <rtyler> oh, I know
Dec 02 11:11:05 <rtyler> it's certainly an issue IMHO, I'm just wondering how fast people got it turned aroun
Dec 02 11:11:15 <rtyler> looks like being in the US puts me in a tough position
Dec 02 11:11:28 <chem|st> rtyler: it is a design flaw that it is soldered to the pcb but I guess that is another weird USB standard compliant feature!
Dec 02 11:11:50 <rtyler> this guy has a good overview of the design failure: http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/connecting-on-the-surface-an-n900-risk/
Dec 02 11:12:11 <rtyler> I didn't get my degree in EE, but even I know not to surface mount connectors like this
Dec 02 11:12:19 <rtyler> *especially* the bloody power connector
Dec 02 11:13:26 <Termana> "this guy" being Texrat
Dec 02 11:13:28 <Termana> :p
Dec 02 11:14:11 <rtyler> I idle too much in here to do proper name recognition, I figured there'd be a chance he'd be lurking 'round here
Dec 02 11:15:07 <chem|st> Termana: had it on my text line and missed to send before looking on other stuff ;)
Dec 02 11:15:17 <Termana> ;)
Dec 02 11:15:44 <chem|st> rtyler: I read it only from tabulacrypticum not from IRC...
Dec 02 11:16:39 <Venemo_N900> HRH_H_Crab: you can't uninstall it from HAM, you need to run its deinstall thingy from the app menu
Dec 02 11:17:11 <chem|st> rtyler: as I said, I guess it is a USB standard compliance due to it is being a charging port
Dec 02 11:17:13 <rtyler> better back up to my memory card since it's clear that this thing is not going to recharge before repair
Dec 02 11:17:28 <rtyler> chem|st: USB spec says everything has to be surface mounted on the board?
Dec 02 11:18:12 <chem|st> rtyler: I don't know but I guess they would have done it otherwise clamp mounted like everything else in the device
Dec 02 11:19:00 <chem|st> everything but the microusb connector is with springs even the antennas
Dec 02 11:19:53 <chem|st> well buttons are not but I guess that is ok
Dec 02 11:22:41 <rtyler> well, it'd be nice if this backup app worked properly :(
Dec 02 11:22:45 * rtyler starts crying
Dec 02 11:26:33 <HRH_H_Crab> Venemo_N900: i think i fixed it
Dec 02 11:26:59 <HRH_H_Crab> i actually had to run some scary commandline deinstaller which popped up a "this can brick your device" warning
Dec 02 11:27:06 <HRH_H_Crab> but it all worked o.k.
Dec 02 11:27:22 <HRH_H_Crab> once that had completed i was then able to reinstall the poweruser kernel
Dec 02 11:27:42 <BCMM> the term "brick" keeps getting woolier
Dec 02 11:28:18 <BCMM> time was, it meant you had an expensive paperweight. on the n900, some people just mean "time to reflash again"
Dec 02 11:29:12 <Termana> BCMM, soft brick vs hard brick. Since you really can't brick the N900, it's always going to be an assumed soft brick
Dec 02 11:29:30 <Termana> Unless the person states otherwise
Dec 02 11:29:47 <BCMM> can't brick? try overclocking.
Dec 02 11:30:20 <BCMM> but yeah, originally i think it meant break permanantly in a strictly softwareish way
Dec 02 11:30:52 <BCMM> like overwriting an ibm-compatible's BIOS eeprom with a picture of a kitten
Dec 02 11:32:27 <Termana> Technically you could overwrite the N900's bootloader and then you would have a "hard brick" (since most people wouldn't have the appropriate JTAG equipment to fix this laying around)
Dec 02 11:33:53 <jacekowski> Termana: bullshit
Dec 02 11:34:04 <jacekowski> Termana: you can't brick n900
Dec 02 11:34:13 <jacekowski> Termana: N900 rom can boot from usb
Dec 02 11:34:15 <rtyler> that sounds like a challenge
Dec 02 11:34:26 <jacekowski> Termana: and using that you can flash it without jtag
Dec 02 11:34:47 <SpeedEvil> n900 internal ROM?
Dec 02 11:34:50 <Termana> jacekowski, hmm ok.
Dec 02 11:34:53 <Termana> Tested this?
Dec 02 11:34:59 <jacekowski> yes
Dec 02 11:35:05 <jacekowski> ~coldflash
Dec 02 11:35:05 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing
Dec 02 11:35:11 <jacekowski> read that log
Dec 02 11:35:13 <SpeedEvil> That is - on-die RAM - not onenand, or ...
Dec 02 11:35:32 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: there is ROM inside of omap
Dec 02 11:35:37 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: with small bootloader
Dec 02 11:35:43 <SpeedEvil> yes - I know - on-die
Dec 02 11:36:00 <SpeedEvil> It may not be enabled without pin-strapping I meant.
Dec 02 11:36:12 <Termana> jacekowski, hmm ok - well that's nice to know
Dec 02 11:36:38 <SpeedEvil> If it shows Nokia USB, it can't be the boot rom
Dec 02 11:36:55 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: it can be
Dec 02 11:37:02 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: it's in one of TRMs
Dec 02 11:37:12 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: that if efuses are still OK it will use id's stored there
Dec 02 11:37:25 <jacekowski> like VID/PID/names
Dec 02 11:37:29 <SpeedEvil> ah
Dec 02 11:37:45 <SpeedEvil> Interesting
Dec 02 11:38:24 <jacekowski> only way to hard brick n900 is probably overclock it a lot
Dec 02 11:38:29 <jacekowski> or water
Dec 02 11:38:45 <SpeedEvil> Or to coldflash >100000 times
Dec 02 11:39:35 <jacekowski> nah
Dec 02 11:39:41 <jacekowski> usb connector should last longer
Dec 02 11:39:56 <jacekowski> besides, you can always unplug it on host side
Dec 02 11:40:29 <jacekowski> and n900 boot rom is reading first couple blocks looking for valid bootloader
Dec 02 11:40:46 <jacekowski> and then will continue to look for other boot devices
Dec 02 11:41:03 <jacekowski> so you may end up having to boot phone from serial port
Dec 02 11:42:50 <rtyler> I suppose the n900 is the only maemo powered device on the planet isn't it?
Dec 02 11:43:11 <noobmonk3y> rtyler n800, n810 etc?
Dec 02 11:43:28 <rtyler> s/device/phone/
Dec 02 11:43:28 <infobot> rtyler meant: I suppose the n900 is the only maemo powered phone on the planet isn't it?
Dec 02 11:43:52 <rtyler> I played with an 800 a while back over a weekend, terribly underpowered IMHO
Dec 02 11:43:59 <rtyler> even the n900 is a little sluggish these days
Dec 02 11:44:16 <rtyler> some of Nokia's new Symbian^bleh hardware is pretty stellar though
Dec 02 11:45:46 <noobmonk3y> lcuk: is having two bacon baguettes greedy?
Dec 02 11:46:30 <lcuk> noobmonk3y, not at all.
Dec 02 11:47:21 <noobmonk3y> lcuk:  good good....... i'll inform the boss that i'm not a greedy ... so and so
Dec 02 11:50:12 <pupnik> what hardware exactly rtyler
Dec 02 11:52:11 <rtyler> this guy http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/04/27/the-nokia-n8-nokias-new-flagship-phone-is-official/
Dec 02 11:53:06 <noobmonk3y> written in april 2010...........
Dec 02 11:53:21 <pupnik> yep noobmonk3y
Dec 02 11:53:31 <rtyler> http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n8
Dec 02 11:53:52 <rtyler> the device looks snazzy in most respects, except that whole symbian thing :)
Dec 02 11:54:04 <noobmonk3y> rtyler: have you tried symbian 3?
Dec 02 11:54:11 <pupnik> i had no problems using it - i liked symbian3 just fine
Dec 02 11:54:26 <pupnik> just not a fun OS to play with
Dec 02 11:54:29 <noobmonk3y> so why 'except that whole symbian thing'?
Dec 02 11:54:32 <noobmonk3y> oh fair do's
Dec 02 11:54:34 <rtyler> I don't doubt that it's usable, but I bought the n900 specifically to support maemo and Linux on my phone :)
Dec 02 11:54:37 <noobmonk3y> not all devices suit everyone :)
Dec 02 11:54:48 <rtyler> (having python around has actually been highly useful)
Dec 02 11:56:45 <pupnik> mhm
Dec 02 11:59:10 <rtyler> I suppose this means until I get my n900 repaired I'll be doing a lot less goofing off on the train to work and more reading :/
Dec 02 12:00:20 <BCMM> have you been port-scanning those accidental winXP ad-hocs on the train :)
Dec 02 12:00:49 <rtyler> heh, I've considered it :)
Dec 02 12:01:25 <BCMM> have you seen "free public wifi"?
Dec 02 12:01:46 <rtyler> certainly, and some hp-setup
Dec 02 12:01:51 <rtyler> and some ZWIRE*
Dec 02 12:01:58 <chem|st> I like to send weird pictures to all those people leaving their BT on...
Dec 02 12:02:02 <BCMM> it's a sort of virus that spreads using human minds and winxp
Dec 02 12:02:35 <BCMM> windows xp in some configurations maintains the last ad-hoc you were connected to
Dec 02 12:02:40 <rtyler> I wish I could flash my old Neo 1973 with a useful operating system
Dec 02 12:02:47 <pupnik> it would be great to make all the laptops on a train start playing the same sounds at once
Dec 02 12:02:56 <SpeedEvil> shr-t?
Dec 02 12:02:56 <rtyler> instead I will have to use this crap windows mobile phone with a partially messed up keyboard :'(
Dec 02 12:03:04 <BCMM> so someone somewhere started an ad-hoc called "free public wifi"
Dec 02 12:03:19 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: it's a windows thing.
Dec 02 12:03:21 <BCMM> and it's spreading around the world
Dec 02 12:03:26 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: It starts up in ad-hoc mode.
Dec 02 12:03:27 <SpeedEvil> oh
Dec 02 12:03:31 <SpeedEvil> sorry.
Dec 02 12:03:44 <SpeedEvil> I should do the backscroll reading thing. Or the more sleep thing.
Dec 02 12:03:56 <pupnik> it's a trojan that sets up an adhoc hotspot?
Dec 02 12:04:00 <BCMM> nah
Dec 02 12:04:10 <pupnik> that would be funny too
Dec 02 12:04:18 <pupnik> all windows users must share their 3g
Dec 02 12:04:22 <BCMM> pupnik: it's stupider than that
Dec 02 12:04:25 <rtyler> pupnik: Windows XP has this thing where if there's an ad-hoc network, it'll connect to it, then next time that machine is "out in the wild" it'll advertise that same ad-hoc network
Dec 02 12:05:13 <BCMM> people connect to it wanting free public wifi, and their machines maintain said ad-hoc even after the original machine has gone
Dec 02 12:05:28 <pupnik> that's hilarious
Dec 02 12:05:30 <pupnik> :)
Dec 02 12:05:35 <BCMM> it has actually reached multiple continents
Dec 02 12:05:37 <rtyler> idiocy
Dec 02 12:06:18 <BCMM> i met it in a boring post office queue on my n900 on the same day i heard of it's prevelance in america
Dec 02 12:07:31 <BCMM> so it's a sorta virus that includes no executable code whatsoever
Dec 02 12:07:43 <rtyler> like American Idol
Dec 02 12:07:51 <SpeedEvil> It's more like a prion.
Dec 02 12:07:58 <BCMM> haha
Dec 02 12:08:30 <BCMM> no code, but the ability to turn things into itself...
Dec 02 12:10:59 <aquatix> no, it's not a virus
Dec 02 12:11:07 <aquatix> it's (really!) a feature of winxp
Dec 02 12:11:14 <aquatix> not sure why it does that though
Dec 02 12:11:23 <BCMM> well, it spreads from machine to machine
Dec 02 12:11:29 <rtyler> bug == feature
Dec 02 12:11:33 <BCMM> using a stupid feature
Dec 02 12:11:39 <BCMM> like any proper virus
Dec 02 12:11:41 <aquatix> it just broadcasts its last-used wifi spot
Dec 02 12:11:42 <aquatix> yep
Dec 02 12:11:48 <aquatix> BCMM: in that regard, true
Dec 02 12:12:24 <chem|st> like the safari carpet bomb
Dec 02 12:12:25 <BCMM> my point is really that it clearly isn't, but it fits several definitions
Dec 02 12:12:39 <BCMM> that isn't infectious
Dec 02 12:12:54 <aquatix> :)
Dec 02 12:13:03 <aquatix> it's a bit like dna
Dec 02 12:13:29 <rtyler> do you guys know how soon Nokia is supposedly going to have a meego phone on the market?
Dec 02 12:14:07 <chem|st> rtyler: somewhere next summer
Dec 02 12:14:48 * rtyler feels like he's watching openmoko all over again
Dec 02 12:17:20 <pupnik> how so
Dec 02 12:18:03 <pupnik> when i think of how awful android 1.6 was
Dec 02 12:18:23 <pupnik> and yet all these mfgrs started making phones for it
Dec 02 12:18:33 <SpeedEvil> It was free
Dec 02 12:18:40 <rtyler> pupnik: the openmoko project had some good things going for them with their python + gtk-based stack, then they threw it all away and started over
Dec 02 12:18:46 <rtyler> feels very much like Maemo -> MeeGo
Dec 02 12:18:50 <pupnik> ahh
Dec 02 12:18:58 <rtyler> and in the meantime, everybody else that didn't take their eyes off the ball passed them up
Dec 02 12:19:06 <pupnik> poor gtk
Dec 02 12:19:07 <SpeedEvil> yep
Dec 02 12:19:16 <rtyler> the OSS version of MeeGo phone distribution is beyond a joke
Dec 02 12:19:28 <SpeedEvil> If openmoko had a clue, they could have shipped hardware for xmas 2007
Dec 02 12:19:45 <SpeedEvil> I had in march of that year a functional phone.
Dec 02 12:19:47 <rtyler> SpeedEvil: if openmoko had a clue, they would have done a lot of things :)
Dec 02 12:19:49 <SpeedEvil> It had a few bugs.
Dec 02 12:19:58 <SpeedEvil> But it fundamentally worked.
Dec 02 12:20:12 <rtyler> I have a 1973 still, I remember getting it and thinking "okay, I'll tinker with this, but it will be X months before I make a phone call? oi"
Dec 02 12:20:44 <SpeedEvil> I am about to recycle my neo.
Dec 02 12:20:45 <rtyler> it's just concerning, MeeGo is pretty snazzy for a netbook right now, but the phone version simply isn't there
Dec 02 12:20:50 <SpeedEvil> Into a microwave oven controller
Dec 02 12:21:03 <rtyler> which means Maemo5 is pretty much it for the lifetime of this n900 of mine
Dec 02 12:21:08 <pupnik> i don't know if it's smart to tie meego to the flagship phone
Dec 02 12:21:11 <rtyler> provided I get it bloody repaired :'(
Dec 02 12:21:23 <rtyler> pupnik: which flagship phone is that?
Dec 02 12:21:31 <pupnik> meego should also run on $300 phones as well
Dec 02 12:21:39 <pupnik> and it needs to
Dec 02 12:21:43 * rtyler nods
Dec 02 12:21:57 <rtyler> that original $600 USD price tag for the n900 was absurd :P
Dec 02 12:22:10 <rtyler> I only purchased after it came down to 400 in early autumn
Dec 02 12:22:27 <pupnik> still over 400 here
Dec 02 12:22:36 <rtyler> pupnik: I'm not sure there are many android phones that are under $300
Dec 02 12:22:53 <rtyler> the problem is Nokia couldn't carrier-subsidize the n900 at all, Americans don't like unlocked phones for some reason
Dec 02 12:23:37 <pupnik> americans seem susceptible to financial traps
Dec 02 12:23:55 <rtyler> I don't know what you're talking about
Dec 02 12:24:04 <rtyler> but would you like to hear about this GREAT TIME SHARE OPPORTUNITY?
Dec 02 12:24:13 <pupnik> :)
Dec 02 12:24:19 <rtyler> also, could I interest you in some NASCAR collectible plates?
Dec 02 12:24:21 <SpeedEvil> I want every odd microsecond
Dec 02 12:24:32 <BCMM> short term vs. long term
Dec 02 12:24:34 <pupnik> european telecoms also do horrible things
Dec 02 12:24:46 <BCMM> if the phone is free upfront, it's free, right?
Dec 02 12:24:51 <pupnik> lol
Dec 02 12:25:11 <rtyler> BCMM: sounds like a question for philosoratpor
Dec 02 12:25:14 <pupnik> i ask americans how much a phone costs, and they literally answer things like only $50!
Dec 02 12:25:20 <rtyler> philosoraptor* rather
Dec 02 12:25:22 <BCMM> see also credit cards, the subprime crisis
Dec 02 12:25:39 <rtyler> BCMM: you should see mattress sales here
Dec 02 12:25:44 <rtyler> (if you're not American)
Dec 02 12:25:51 <rtyler> "NO MONEY DOWN UNTIL JUNE OF NEXT YEAR!"
Dec 02 12:26:01 <rtyler> so free sofa right? kthxbai
Dec 02 12:26:13 <BCMM> we get that around christmas in the uk
Dec 02 12:26:16 <pupnik> however electronics prices are cheaper there
Dec 02 12:26:29 <BCMM> on all furniture-type things
Dec 02 12:26:31 <rtyler> indeed, which is nice
Dec 02 12:26:55 <pupnik> let's have more currency swings.  It was like christmas when amazon.co.uk suddenly had the best prices in europe
Dec 02 12:26:58 <BCMM> we've been moving towards the us model of "credit is like free money"
Dec 02 12:27:07 <rtyler> wait
Dec 02 12:27:09 <rtyler> it isn't
Dec 02 12:27:11 <rtyler> ?
Dec 02 12:27:13 <Choom> not me
Dec 02 12:27:21 <Choom> I've never had any debts
Dec 02 12:27:26 <Choom> and I'm proud of it
Dec 02 12:27:32 <rtyler> BCMM: surely somebody would have told me that while I was in school
Dec 02 12:27:58 <pupnik> i also should be making cheese
Dec 02 12:28:01 <BCMM> Choom: well, we have compulsory debt for students now...
Dec 02 12:28:19 <rtyler> pupnik: I support cheese, go forth!
Dec 02 12:28:27 <BCMM> used to be possible to make the lifestlye choice to live within your means
Dec 02 12:28:40 <Choom> in fact, the only reason why I even have a credit card is because of online transactions
Dec 02 12:28:42 <BCMM> but now that means no uni or rich parents
Dec 02 12:29:05 <rtyler> Choom: I use a gold AMEX card for all that, it's technically a charge card with no credit line behind it
Dec 02 12:29:06 <BCMM> who doesn't take debit?
Dec 02 12:29:35 <rtyler> BCMM: I'd rather deal with a credit card company than my bank with fraud or chargebacks
Dec 02 12:29:45 <BCMM> ah
Dec 02 12:33:01 <rtyler> holy crap, qtmoko runs on the 1973 reasonably well
Dec 02 12:33:11 <rtyler> I might have a linux phone while the n900 is repaired after all
Dec 02 12:34:40 <MohammadAG> N8: excellent build quality, for a month at least
Dec 02 12:34:52 <MohammadAG> part above camera is creaky
Dec 02 12:35:32 <SpeedEvil> rtyler: have you tried shr-t?
Dec 02 12:36:20 <rtyler> SpeedEvil: no idea what that is, so nerp
Dec 02 12:40:49 * rtyler falls asleep
Dec 02 12:52:31 <DocScrutinizer> rtyler: \o/
Dec 02 12:55:06 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, did you get any response from the SDK team?
Dec 02 12:55:24 <apic> Hi everyone. I flashed the FIASCO image but booted instead of just flashing the VANILLA image afterwards. Can I rescue this situation somehow?
Dec 02 12:55:43 <apic> I tried Mass Storage mount, but can't access /dev/sdc
Dec 02 12:56:31 <apic> When I try just flashing FIASCO, I somehow can't stop my N900 from booting (showing the 5 dots)
Dec 02 12:56:52 <apic> I use Slackware linux and flasher-3.5
Dec 02 12:57:20 <apic> I flashed with: flasher-3.5 -f -F FIASCO_IMAGE; flasher-3.5 -f -F VANILLA_IMAGE -R
Dec 02 12:57:28 <apic> But the 2nd time it can't find the USB device anymore...
Dec 02 12:58:16 <apic> Now it can't even open "First Steps", says too little storage...
Dec 02 12:58:31 <apic> Can I partition the Flash myself?
Dec 02 12:58:38 <apic> The integrated MMC?
Dec 02 13:00:57 <chem|st> apic: just make sure the partitions are sorted like before size does not matter
Dec 02 13:02:18 <DocScrutinizer51> apic: flshing rootfs only is perfectly allowable
Dec 02 13:04:07 <DocScrutinizer51> if you want to flash eMMC as well, then flash that first, without bootning (no -R) Then remove battery to stop when done. and go on to flashing rootfs
Dec 02 13:04:50 <apic> Ok, thanks!
Dec 02 13:04:55 <Triscar0> i cant find "i am here" and i have added the catalogs
Dec 02 13:09:11 <achipa> X-Fade: ping
Dec 02 13:42:30 <frank__> question: why does wget appear in the fremantle repository, but not in application manager nor on the website?
Dec 02 13:44:45 <DocScrutinizer> "wrong" category
Dec 02 13:45:19 <DocScrutinizer> app mngr doesn't show the category wget is in
Dec 02 13:45:59 <frank__> is the categorisation part of apt-get or maemo?
Dec 02 13:46:08 <DocScrutinizer> maemo
Dec 02 13:46:20 <DocScrutinizer> apt-get install wget
Dec 02 13:47:03 <DocScrutinizer> there's also been some red-pill mode
Dec 02 13:47:18 <frank__> that's safe to do because it's still from the maemo repository, right?
Dec 02 13:47:29 <DocScrutinizer> which afaik makes (or made) appmgr show all catergories
Dec 02 13:47:37 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Dec 02 13:48:09 <frank__> ah, so it's only apt-getting from non-maemo repositories I need to worry about?
Dec 02 13:49:03 <thp> frank__: depends on how you define 'worry about'
Dec 02 13:49:19 <DocScrutinizer> not exactly, it's apps from maemo-extras-devel you should be careful, and also apt-get upgrade usually breaks your device
Dec 02 13:49:31 <MohammadAG> red pill was removed, at least the "matrix" way of activating it
Dec 02 13:49:51 <Flyser_mobile> Hi, I am having problems connecting to my ICQ account using the contacts plugin on my N900. Do you have a suggestion, how I can debug my issue?
Dec 02 13:49:59 <DocScrutinizer> yes, but I *think* the file-edit mode might still work on pr1.3 HAM
Dec 02 13:50:26 <DocScrutinizer> though I'm not even sure if it worked in pr1.2
Dec 02 13:52:02 <frank__> right, so only apt-get install/remove, and only extras, and that'll be safe?
Dec 02 13:52:11 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Dec 02 13:52:35 <frank__> great
Dec 02 13:52:57 <frank__> got a N900 yesterday, loving the openness of maemo, but a little afraid of bricking the thing
Dec 02 13:53:13 <DocScrutinizer> no problem
Dec 02 13:53:21 <DocScrutinizer> you can not "brick" it
Dec 02 13:53:52 <pupnik> go forth young man, and hack!
Dec 02 13:53:53 <DocScrutinizer> worst thing that can happen is you need to (cold-)flash
Dec 02 13:54:18 <DocScrutinizer> so keep a backup of your system - there's backup app for that
Dec 02 13:54:44 <DocScrutinizer> use it now, to get familiar with it
Dec 02 13:54:51 <DocScrutinizer> also for a restore
Dec 02 13:55:34 <DocScrutinizer> frank__: and welcome to the club :-D
Dec 02 13:55:42 <MohammadAG> hmm
Dec 02 13:55:49 <MohammadAG> is /sbin/preinit on rootfs?
Dec 02 13:55:56 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Dec 02 13:56:01 <DocScrutinizer> where else?
Dec 02 13:56:22 * noobmonk3y has yet to actually see a bricked device... people use that term to often, it aint bricked if you can reflash the thing, lol
Dec 02 13:56:22 <DocScrutinizer> you're thinking about how to recover from accidental boot?
Dec 02 13:56:39 <MohammadAG> so rootfs is mounted right when NOLO loads the kernel?
Dec 02 13:57:02 <MohammadAG> no, just thinking of how maemo boots
Dec 02 13:57:19 <DocScrutinizer> yes, on maemo5 it's like that
Dec 02 13:57:24 <DocScrutinizer> afaik
Dec 02 13:57:33 <frank__> DocScrutinizer: thanks! loving something that includes xterm with the default install :D
Dec 02 13:57:42 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Dec 02 13:58:10 <Triscar0> where can i find the anti thief tool "i am here"? cant find
Dec 02 13:58:11 <DocScrutinizer> I'm loving it since a year now, though you hear me constantly bitching and swearing
Dec 02 13:58:33 <CaCO3> Hi all
Dec 02 13:58:36 <DocScrutinizer> IT-tourette
Dec 02 13:59:08 <DocScrutinizer> hi CaCO3
Dec 02 13:59:46 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: that's why a full image backup is so problematic
Dec 02 14:00:19 <CaCO3> I am playing with MohammadAGs pvrcreator application, but I get an error when I use it. So I tried to follow the example from the forum (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63641&highlight=pvrcreator) but even that does not work for me. Mediaplayer still does not have a splash screen
Dec 02 14:00:38 <DocScrutinizer> you'd need to pivot-root out of the initial /, to allow doing a proper dd
Dec 02 14:00:58 <MohammadAG> CaCO3, what error?
Dec 02 14:03:06 <CaCO3> MohammadAG: It opens my screenshot, but then nothing more happens. The terminal shows this warning:
Dec 02 14:03:08 <CaCO3> /usr/bin/pvrcreator.py:67: Warning: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
Dec 02 14:03:09 <CaCO3>   ret = fcd.run()
Dec 02 14:03:50 <MohammadAG> works fine for me
Dec 02 14:03:54 <MohammadAG> even after a reflash
Dec 02 14:04:43 <DocScrutinizer> pvrcreator?
Dec 02 14:04:49 <CaCO3> yup
Dec 02 14:05:09 <CaCO3> hmm, if I interpret it right, then thats as supposed
Dec 02 14:05:51 <CaCO3> but where is the created pvr file then?
Dec 02 14:05:51 <MohammadAG> do you get a file in /home/user/.cache/launch?
Dec 02 14:06:04 <MohammadAG> org.maemo.pvrcreator.pvr
Dec 02 14:06:07 <CaCO3> Nokia-N900:/home/user/.cache/launch# ls
Dec 02 14:06:09 <CaCO3> com.nokia.backup.pvr                      com.nokia.mediaplayer.pvr                 com.nokia.osso_pdfviewer.pvr
Dec 02 14:06:10 <CaCO3> com.nokia.controlpanel.pvr                com.nokia.modest.pvr                      com.nokia.worldclock.pvr
Dec 02 14:06:12 <CaCO3> com.nokia.hildon_application_manager.pvr  com.nokia.osso_calculator.pvr             com.nokia.xterm.pvr
Dec 02 14:06:23 <CaCO3> pvrcreator is missing there
Dec 02 14:06:48 <MohammadAG> where'd you get com.nokia.mediaplayer.pvr then?
Dec 02 14:07:01 <CaCO3> I renamed anothe rone from that folder
Dec 02 14:07:09 <CaCO3> for testing
Dec 02 14:07:13 <DocScrutinizer> what does pvrcreator?
Dec 02 14:07:32 <CaCO3> it makes a splash screen, so the user feels the app quicler loaded
Dec 02 14:07:46 <DocScrutinizer> oooh, that one
Dec 02 14:07:54 <MohammadAG> install python-gobject (as a test)
Dec 02 14:08:16 <CaCO3> python-gobject is already the newest version.
Dec 02 14:09:48 <MohammadAG> and i'm assuming you're running pvrcreator.py as user?
Dec 02 14:09:49 <DocScrutinizer> so I could replace that fsckng settings load gap clown screen that does nothing and fools me every time, by a nice fsckfinger, so I don't try to tap the button of an image
Dec 02 14:10:14 <CaCO3> :) yup
Dec 02 14:10:16 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, exactly
Dec 02 14:10:31 <CaCO3> I actually would also preffer a splashscreen instead a screenshot
Dec 02 14:10:53 <CaCO3> and that should be possible with pvrcreator
Dec 02 14:10:58 <MohammadAG> that's what I do with PSFreedom
Dec 02 14:11:30 <MohammadAG> code is based on thp's trophae and frals's fMMS
Dec 02 14:11:46 <MohammadAG> oh and Jaffa's hermes
Dec 02 14:11:53 <MohammadAG> install fmms and see if it works
Dec 02 14:11:59 <CaCO3> I saw that, but do not yet understand how to implement it ino my app. So i started with pvrcreator
Dec 02 14:12:37 <thp> CaCO3: you just have to tell the window manager to take a screenshot of your app at a "good" time (what a good time is depends on what your app displays
Dec 02 14:12:54 <CaCO3> yup, i know
Dec 02 14:13:10 <CaCO3> but the pvr file seems not to get used
Dec 02 14:13:53 <thp> maybe your window id / window (class?) name does not match?
Dec 02 14:14:04 <thp> it could be that you also need to put the WMClass into your .desktop, I don't know
Dec 02 14:14:36 <thp> the definitive answer lies somewhere in the hildon-desktop source if you have the time and motivation to dig into it ;)
Dec 02 14:14:40 <CaCO3> it works on fMMS, but the screenshot is very low quallity
Dec 02 14:14:42 <trx> hello
Dec 02 14:15:22 <thp> CaCO3: also, what about trying to improve startup time? showing your window early, delaying loading of other stuff, etc..
Dec 02 14:15:46 <CaCO3> its python, so its slow anyway, but also I am working on that
Dec 02 14:16:35 <thp> CaCO3: try putting your imports not at the top of the file, but only after you have created / shown your window - even if you still need to populate the window's contents
Dec 02 14:16:43 <CaCO3> So i did a "cp se.frals.fmms.pvr com.nokia.mediaplayer.pvr", but Media Player still does not have asplash screen
Dec 02 14:17:54 <trx> i am trying to build an application for n900 using lazarus but am having troubles translating the headers from c to pascal, do headers for pascal exist somewhere maybe?
Dec 02 14:17:57 <CaCO3> thp: thanks, i will try that. Also i read that the main file should be small to speed up the start. Is that correct?
Dec 02 14:18:24 <thp> CaCO3: try it, profile and see if it works for you ;)
Dec 02 14:19:01 <MohammadAG> thp, you just need a .service file :)
Dec 02 14:19:20 <MohammadAG> (and of course, you have to put X-Osso-Service in the .desktop file)
Dec 02 14:19:39 <CaCO3> does mediaplayer have that all by default?
Dec 02 14:19:54 <thp> MohammadAG: so, h-d only works when apps are started using d-bus activation?
Dec 02 14:20:01 <RST38h> <yawn>
Dec 02 14:20:42 <MohammadAG> thp, no, the splash screen only works when starting the app with dbus
Dec 02 14:21:09 <thp> erm yeah.. what's what i meant to write ;)
Dec 02 14:21:13 <thp> s/what/that/
Dec 02 14:21:13 <infobot> thp meant: erm yeah.. that's what i meant to write ;)
Dec 02 14:21:19 <MohammadAG> dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr.LaunchApplication string:"$appname"
Dec 02 14:21:34 <MohammadAG> apparently, it shows the screenshot from where the mouse pointer is
Dec 02 14:21:54 <MohammadAG> so the screenshot sorta open from the mouse pointer (which is invisible)
Dec 02 14:21:58 <MohammadAG> opens*
Dec 02 14:22:55 <MohammadAG> thp, not sure if I've mentioned this here on #maemo, but I've been thinking of making h-d use a darker colour for inactive areas, instead of a blur
Dec 02 14:23:03 <MohammadAG> like Symbian^3/MeeGo
Dec 02 14:23:13 <thp> sounds good :)
Dec 02 14:24:21 <CaCO3> Does not work: :(
Dec 02 14:24:23 <CaCO3> dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr.LaunchApplication string:"mediaplayer"
Dec 02 14:24:52 <thp> CaCO3: media player is "special". try with some third party app
Dec 02 14:25:06 <thp> (because i believe it is kept in memory even when closed to improve its startup time)
Dec 02 14:25:22 <CaCO3> :) but mediaplayer is the example in the forum
Dec 02 14:25:47 <thp> link?
Dec 02 14:26:00 <CaCO3> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63641&highlight=pvrcreator
Dec 02 14:28:23 <thp> CaCO3: in that case, MohammadAG should be able to help you ;)
Dec 02 14:28:40 <thp> CaCO3: also, killing hildon-desktop every now and then might fix things
Dec 02 14:28:49 <trx> hm, so nobody uses lazarus? :(
Dec 02 14:32:46 <MohammadAG> CaCO3, yes, and it works for me, not sure what's different really :/
Dec 02 14:33:08 <CaCO3> what works for you?
Dec 02 14:33:15 <MohammadAG> I just generated a pvr file from a 800x424 png screenshot
Dec 02 14:34:20 <CaCO3> hmm, I guess it might be a problem when i run it asroot? (because SSh is always root)
Dec 02 14:34:26 <CaCO3> let me try it as normal user
Dec 02 14:35:47 <Triscar0> why cant i find anyplace to download "i am here" theif tool?
Dec 02 14:36:47 <CaCO3> MohammadAG: it doesn work as normal user from terminal either
Dec 02 14:37:03 <MohammadAG> use the icon
Dec 02 14:37:13 <Termana> BCMM_: This guy is kidding himself right? :p
Dec 02 14:38:29 <CaCO3> MohammadAG: it doesn work as normal user from terminal either, but when I start it from the menu
Dec 02 14:38:57 <CaCO3> and it also gets shown when i stratpvrcreator next time!
Dec 02 14:39:14 <MohammadAG> it?
Dec 02 14:39:33 <CaCO3> it works when I start pvrcreator from the menu
Dec 02 14:39:37 <CaCO3> instead drom the terminaöl
Dec 02 14:44:29 <MohammadAG> dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr.LaunchApplication string:"pvrcreator"
Dec 02 14:44:35 <MohammadAG> should launch it with the screenshot
Dec 02 14:45:06 <Flyser_mobile> Hi, I am having problems connecting to my ICQ account using the contacts plugin on my N900. Do you have a suggestion, how I can debug my issue? maybe a log file? couldnt find one
Dec 02 14:45:08 <CaCO3> yup that works
Dec 02 14:48:07 <BCMM_> Termana: wrong tab, right?
Dec 02 14:48:43 <Termana> BCMM_: no actually I was saying it here so the guy didn't see it, but it doesn't matter now :P
Dec 02 14:49:04 <BCMM_> Termana: you need to learn to use /msg
Dec 02 14:49:14 <Termana> :p I know how to use /msg
Dec 02 14:49:54 <MohammadAG> lmao
Dec 02 14:50:00 <Termana> Anyway, we resolved our difference amicably.
Dec 02 14:50:02 <Termana> Eg. He learned I was right and he was wrong
Dec 02 14:50:15 <Termana> :p
Dec 02 14:50:41 <MohammadAG> that's new
Dec 02 14:51:01 <Termana> heh
Dec 02 14:56:59 <crashanddie> Termana, what time is it in ausland at the moment?
Dec 02 14:58:13 <Termana> crashanddie, in the rather boring southern part of the great ausland it is currently 1:19AM ACEST
Dec 02 14:58:26 <Termana> err
Dec 02 14:58:36 <crashanddie> lolwut?
Dec 02 14:58:41 <Termana> ACST
Dec 02 14:58:53 * crashanddie grumbles
Dec 02 14:59:39 <crashanddie> the whole world pretty much agreed to the same stupid shit when it comes to time management
Dec 02 14:59:59 <crashanddie> but australia manages to have a whole state who just don't change time ever, and another one that is 30 minutes out of synch with the rest of the world
Dec 02 15:00:01 <Termana> Are you bagging on my +9:30?
Dec 02 15:00:03 <Termana> :p
Dec 02 15:01:29 <Termana> crashanddie, I think I've discussed this before, but funnily enough I've found some people over the years that I've had to actually CONVINCE that there was a time zone that had a half hour difference. The uneducated fools laughed at me
Dec 02 15:02:26 <Termana> I guess I can't blame them when they probably couldn't even point out their country on a map
Dec 02 15:02:28 <frank__> what's the location of the jobs executed by /sbin/start?
Dec 02 15:02:38 <crashanddie> Termana, I had some guy tell me that timezones were just corporations manipulating the good people of the world to make more money (ie, make us use more electricity)
Dec 02 15:02:57 <Termana> ha
Dec 02 15:03:30 <BCMM_> Termana: well, it is pretty weird, and there aren't many of them
Dec 02 15:03:56 <crashanddie> Termana, he even demonstrated his theory by calling one of his (probably only) friends, one in the same timezone, but about a thousand km away (still in France), and asking him "if it was dark outside".
Dec 02 15:04:04 <BCMM_> crashanddie: because the Australians would use less electricity if they were nocturnal?
Dec 02 15:27:36 <Jaffa> Yay, Matan's trolling again.
Dec 02 15:27:41 <Jaffa> And this time it's at me :-)
Dec 02 15:28:06 <GAN900> Haha
Dec 02 15:28:10 <GAN900> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66275&page=2
Dec 02 15:28:12 <GAN900> Love it.
Dec 02 15:28:42 <GAN900> Jaffa the Nokia Mouthpiece.
Dec 02 15:29:06 <GAN900> All that critical talk is just a Put On.
Dec 02 15:29:39 <Jaffa> Yup.
Dec 02 15:29:42 <Jaffa> Me love Nokia.
Dec 02 15:29:48 <Jaffa> Me love shiny toys.
Dec 02 15:30:05 <Jaffa> Me love Marketing's arm up my arse.
Dec 02 15:30:27 <GAN900> It's warm and tingly!
Dec 02 15:32:52 * MohammadAG wants the mediaplayer to be OSS
Dec 02 15:33:41 <GAN900> Differentiation!
Dec 02 15:34:03 <GAN900> Jaffa, there is the point to be made that Nokia isn't a hive mind.
Dec 02 15:34:20 <GAN900> Perhaps certain parties see value in the external pressure.
Dec 02 15:34:25 <Jaffa> GAN900: Pfft, you've just had your Council Borg Implants removed.
Dec 02 15:38:26 <GAN900> Jaffa, is that what the special debriefing session I can't remember anything about was for?
Dec 02 15:38:26 * RST38h moos at GAN900
Dec 02 15:42:54 <GAN900> RST38h, you still suck for not being at the conference.
Dec 02 15:43:43 <CaCO3> MohammadAG: Is there a way I can include my pvr file into the debain package? i guess the autobuilder will deny it again, as it is a binary file
Dec 02 15:49:09 <MohammadAG> the autobuilder doesn't reject binaries
Dec 02 15:49:12 <MohammadAG> and what's your app?
Dec 02 15:49:18 <CaCO3> SleepAnalyser
Dec 02 15:49:29 <CaCO3> So can i include a pvr file into the tar.gz?
Dec 02 15:49:39 <MohammadAG> see psfreedom
Dec 02 15:49:44 <CaCO3> ok
Dec 02 15:50:01 <CaCO3> I also read somewhere that the pvr files get deleted when you change the theme. Is thatright?
Dec 02 15:50:35 <MohammadAG> also see how psfreedom handles this :)
Dec 02 15:50:45 <CaCO3> ok, thanks
Dec 02 15:51:02 <MohammadAG> I launch PSFreedom with a shell script in /usr/bin, it checks if the .pvr file is there, if not, it copies it and handles permissions
Dec 02 15:51:23 <MohammadAG> don't forget to chown user:users the .pvr file in the postinst, we don't want root owned files in /home/user
Dec 02 15:51:32 <CaCO3> yup
Dec 02 15:52:14 <CaCO3> you say the autobuilder allows binaries. but why did he reject my precompiled .so file? (you remember, shedskin...)
Dec 02 15:52:24 <CaCO3> what are the roles for it?
Dec 02 15:52:29 <CaCO3> rules
Dec 02 15:52:55 <jacekowski> non-free repository
Dec 02 15:53:06 <jacekowski> if you want to send binaries
Dec 02 15:53:14 <MohammadAG> it didn't reject it, you weren't doing it right
Dec 02 15:53:24 <jacekowski> but MohammadAG is right
Dec 02 15:53:26 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, it's only one PVR file
Dec 02 15:54:52 <DocScrutinizer> frank__: /etc/event.d
Dec 02 15:55:39 <frank__> DocScrutinizer: ty, I'm trying to diagnose a problem with openssh without much luck - stopping the server does not kill the child connections
Dec 02 15:56:14 <frank__> same behaviour using both upstart and init.d methods
Dec 02 15:57:57 <thp> frank__: i guess that's on purpose so you are not locking yourself out from the machine if you remotely stop sshd by accident
Dec 02 15:58:33 <frank__> perhaps, haven't run into the behaviour before tho
Dec 02 15:59:42 <BCMM_> yeah, that's normal
Dec 02 15:59:53 <BCMM_> stopping the ssh server stops only new connection
Dec 02 16:00:07 <BCMM_> meaning that it can be restarted without killing existing connections
Dec 02 16:02:50 <frank__> hum, only ever really used gentoo, guess I assumed their behaviour was the default. oops
Dec 02 16:03:16 <nomis> DocScrutinizer: btw. if you're curious: These are the shutdown codes from the open source tvbgone-kit in human readable form: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/tvbgone-codes.txt
Dec 02 16:03:57 <nomis> DocScrutinizer: I hope I did not mess up with the conversion.
Dec 02 16:05:31 <TiagoTiago> hi, ny idea how i can fix http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=9qMY3S4c  ?
Dec 02 16:05:35 <TiagoTiago> any*
Dec 02 16:08:04 <jigrap> is there a way to put compat-wireless into the latest maemo for n810?
Dec 02 16:20:02 <Jaffa> CaCO3: There's no difference between a .pvr file and a .png file as far as the auto-builder's concerned.
Dec 02 16:40:40 <JaMa|Off> can someone point me to sources of debian/u-boot.bin.gz.b64 used in kernel-power43 (same as power45), it's different than http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/u-boot/u-boot.bin and I haven't found sources for diff
Dec 02 16:43:42 <MohammadAG> probably on matan's repos
Dec 02 16:43:46 <MohammadAG> wherever those may be
Dec 02 16:54:05 * DocScrutinizer looks into friggin settings.desktop to find the switch to throw, to disale that nonsense pvr thing
Dec 02 16:57:21 <alterego> Strange, just got offered a job from some mobile software company.
Dec 02 16:58:10 * SpeedEvil imagines a van driving round developing software.
Dec 02 16:58:28 <alterego> Well, offered is completely the wrong word, just had an enquiry about me applying for a job there.
Dec 02 16:59:03 <alterego> Anyone know grapplemobile.com?
Dec 02 16:59:19 <jacekowski> that ussualy means they want you to make stuff you make for them so they can make money on it not you
Dec 02 16:59:37 <alterego> Yes, that's the impression I got.
Dec 02 17:00:22 <jacekowski> well, apply
Dec 02 17:00:25 <jacekowski> go for interview
Dec 02 17:00:28 <jacekowski> and see what happens
Dec 02 17:00:37 <jacekowski> you don't have anything to lose
Dec 02 17:00:38 <alterego> I've sent them my CV,
Dec 02 17:00:45 <alterego> Sure, my thoughts exactly.
Dec 02 17:00:58 <alterego> I'd rather not work for a company that do Android and iPhone development though.
Dec 02 17:01:14 <alterego> He did seem to be concentrating on my Qt experience.
Dec 02 17:01:23 <alterego> Which is positive
Dec 02 17:01:31 <jacekowski> no company registration number
Dec 02 17:01:35 <jacekowski> on their site
Dec 02 17:01:45 <alterego> Yeah, I'm looking at it now.
Dec 02 17:01:52 <alterego> Those are some awful colours.
Dec 02 17:02:39 <jacekowski> http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/grapple-mobile
Dec 02 17:02:46 <jacekowski> Incorporation Date:
Dec 02 17:02:47 <jacekowski> 14 Oct 2009
Dec 02 17:03:14 <jacekowski> and they had 6 directors in year time
Dec 02 17:03:20 <alterego> Hah
Dec 02 17:03:42 <alterego> I think I'd want a bit more security tbh
Dec 02 17:04:44 <alterego> Still if I don't hear back from any one within the next week, they're at least an option. O_O
Dec 02 17:04:54 <alterego> I was just wondering if anyone else had had a similar experience.
Dec 02 17:04:56 <jacekowski> i've read story of somebody working for web development company in london
Dec 02 17:05:04 <jacekowski> similiar sort of stuff
Dec 02 17:05:05 <jacekowski> new company
Dec 02 17:05:18 <jacekowski> remotely + visits to HQ
Dec 02 17:05:32 <jacekowski> and at some point late payments started
Dec 02 17:05:41 <alterego> "Europes #1 iPhone Developer" that's a bold statement.
Dec 02 17:07:28 <jacekowski> and well, london
Dec 02 17:07:44 <jacekowski> not really nice place to live in
Dec 02 17:07:46 <jacekowski> or work
Dec 02 17:08:01 <alterego> I don't live there, but it's an easy 40 minutes train journey.
Dec 02 17:08:21 <alterego> They all seem to be iPhone owners.
Dec 02 17:08:26 <alterego> Not sure I could take it :D
Dec 02 17:08:28 <jacekowski> well, think about it
Dec 02 17:08:41 <jacekowski> if you start work at 0800
Dec 02 17:08:41 <SpeedEvil>  np: The Clash - London Calling.
Dec 02 17:08:43 <alterego> They're probably looking for N8 developers, as there are a few 6500 owners in the "crew".
Dec 02 17:09:06 <jacekowski> then you have to be in london around 0720 to get trough underground
Dec 02 17:09:11 <alterego> I used to have to commute 1hr 30m
Dec 02 17:09:18 <alterego> And it was half the distance ..
Dec 02 17:09:24 <alterego> I like waking up early ..
Dec 02 17:09:31 <jacekowski> which means you have to wake up around 0600 at latest
Dec 02 17:09:42 <jacekowski> and get back home around 1830-1900
Dec 02 17:09:55 <SpeedEvil> Long days.
Dec 02 17:10:01 <SpeedEvil> And expensive housing.
Dec 02 17:10:12 <jacekowski> + pay for your train
Dec 02 17:10:20 <jacekowski> which is like 2-3k/year
Dec 02 17:10:29 <jacekowski> with underground
Dec 02 17:10:45 <jacekowski> london is a bad evil place
Dec 02 17:11:21 <alterego> Heh, it's an option at least.
Dec 02 17:11:35 <alterego> Well, tbh, after looking at their site, I don't think it is an option ..
Dec 02 17:11:40 <alterego> I'm not that desperate ..
Dec 02 17:12:07 <alterego> They've got some pretty people working for them though ...
Dec 02 17:12:20 <jacekowski> girls with big boobs?
Dec 02 17:12:26 <alterego> :D
Dec 02 17:12:29 <edheldil> beware of your IP, or they will try to make you unknowingly forfeit your rights to your own proggies :)
Dec 02 17:12:34 <alterego> They all look really trendy.
Dec 02 17:13:06 * edheldil shudders
Dec 02 17:13:43 <alterego> Yeah, they'll probably cringe when I say I'm releasing my app FOSS :P
Dec 02 17:32:03 <RST38h> Meanwhile: RIM Acquires Interface Wizards The Astonishing Tribe
Dec 02 17:36:55 <NooBmonk3y> hmmm wheres the best place install an app? /opt/ or /usr/local/bin ?
Dec 02 17:37:30 <laasonen> How can I open MicroB's extension-window?
Dec 02 17:38:01 <jacekowski> about:plugins
Dec 02 17:39:55 <laasonen> Not that. This: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/12/Screenshot-20091024-153306.png
Dec 02 17:40:54 <kerio> laasonen: it's in... the menu?
Dec 02 17:41:08 <frals> NooBmonk3y: /opt/healthcheck/ ;P
Dec 02 17:43:28 <laasonen> I cant find any plugin settings, from there?
Dec 02 17:43:44 <laasonen> Just information.
Dec 02 17:44:54 <laasonen> kerio: Thanks, I'm blind :D
Dec 02 17:50:57 <BCMM_> why does maemo use cfq on mmcblk0?
Dec 02 17:52:00 <slonopotamus> because it can!
Dec 02 17:52:21 <BCMM_> i mean, i thought noop typically made sense on hardware with no seek time?
Dec 02 17:52:39 <BCMM_> sorry, i'm talking about the noop and cfq io schedulers
Dec 02 17:53:00 <CableTwitch> Yo
Dec 02 17:53:08 <slonopotamus> no seek time doesn't mean random reads are as fast as sequential :/
Dec 02 17:53:24 <CableTwitch> Question... why am I getting so many invalide certificates?
Dec 02 17:53:44 <pavi> sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL   is the command , I dont have any such targets what do I do ?
Dec 02 17:53:57 <pavi> I am following http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation
Dec 02 17:54:25 <CableTwitch> Seek time is maximum time to go from outer to inner, or vice versa. Maximum time spent to find the furthest sector.
Dec 02 17:54:39 <pavi> I accepted the eula and added the respective sources.list but I cant use the apt in my shell because I didnt select any target as none are available
Dec 02 17:54:41 <CableTwitch> Unless I'm confused, that it.
Dec 02 17:55:29 <alterego> pavi: type sb-conf ls -T
Dec 02 17:55:39 <pavi> ok
Dec 02 17:55:58 <BCMM_> slonopotamus: fair enough
Dec 02 17:56:00 <pavi> I have used a interactive one to say that there are none :)
Dec 02 17:56:54 <pavi> sb-conf ls -T lists nothing
Dec 02 17:57:08 <pavi> I used sb-menu for an interactive shell
Dec 02 17:57:09 <alterego> gutted, start again :)
Dec 02 17:57:26 <pavi> alterego, start at which point ?
Dec 02 17:57:43 <NooBmonk3y> thanks frals  :)
Dec 02 17:57:45 <alterego> Probably the beginnig, try to retrace your steps.
Dec 02 17:58:10 <alterego> Well, scratchbox is installed, so probably after then is "safe"
Dec 02 17:58:42 <CableTwitch> No-one else has experienced, sya, the ovi store throwing up invalid credentials, etc?
Dec 02 18:00:23 <CableTwitch> I guess its just me then.
Dec 02 18:04:38 <trumee> guys, i have built the N900 kernel in scratchbox to get 'NAT' support. Unfortunately, 'modprobe nf_conntrack' is giving me an error "nf_conntrack: disagrees about version of symbol skb_copy_bits".
Dec 02 18:04:55 <mykhal> i have the nokia n900. under media player --> music --> artists, i have '1 album, 1849 songs'. all of those songs were uploaded as albums. how do i get them to be displayed in the proper albums?
Dec 02 18:05:02 <trumee> any idea what might be wrong?
Dec 02 18:06:27 <pavi> alterego, this was the error I got while installing maemosdk which I kind of ignored previously http://paste.debian.net/101335/
Dec 02 18:06:31 <pavi> its repeating
Dec 02 18:09:10 <trumee> anybody compiled a custom kernel for N900?
Dec 02 18:10:34 <nidO> specifically here right now, or in general?
Dec 02 18:11:32 * NooBmonk3y wakes up
Dec 02 18:11:43 <NooBmonk3y> lol nidO
Dec 02 18:12:06 <pavi> alterego, I have xterm installed and why isn't it able to launch ?
Dec 02 18:12:29 <pavi> I type xterm in the same terminal and it works
Dec 02 18:12:39 <pavi> dunno why that script wasn't able to launch it
Dec 02 18:12:45 <pavi> http://paste.debian.net/101335/
Dec 02 18:13:50 <pavi> well that step fails but I am still able to /scratchbox/login
Dec 02 18:14:16 <pavi> only thing it says is sb-conf: No current target
Dec 02 18:14:55 <pavi> well what happened I accepted more than 2 EULA's today and i get nothing bpph booh
Dec 02 18:15:53 <alterego> To be honest I've only done a manual install.
Dec 02 18:16:15 <alterego> If you're compitent I'd suggest it. Anyhow gotta dash
Dec 02 18:16:35 <NooBmonk3y> :P
Dec 02 18:17:12 <pavi> ok
Dec 02 18:17:22 <pavi> I am only looking for some targets
Dec 02 18:18:08 <pavi> The wiki http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation says "Execute the commands below on the FREMANTLE_ARMEL and FREMANTLE_X86 targets. "
Dec 02 18:18:19 <pavi> and I don't have them to execute them
Dec 02 18:18:51 <pavi> BTW I am using debian squeeze
Dec 02 18:24:15 <rtyler> DocScrutinizer: what were you cheering about :P
Dec 02 18:34:58 <NooBmonk3y> lcuk, ... what OS do you have on your multitude of devices?
Dec 02 18:35:59 <lcuk> maemo meego winxp ubuntu
Dec 02 18:36:25 <lcuk> NooBmonk3y, ^
Dec 02 18:36:36 <lcuk> my body has a virus atm
Dec 02 18:36:42 <lcuk> and i cant seem to install norton on it
Dec 02 18:36:45 * lcuk damn flu
Dec 02 18:37:22 <nidO> so when you say norton you mean cancer right?
Dec 02 18:37:38 <NooBmonk3y> have to admit,(not using the lappies atm) missing windows for some things......... (any kind) .. ubuntu is fine, works well, just lacking the generic user satisfaction things like flash working well, adobe cs5 suite etc.......
Dec 02 18:39:42 <lcuk> NooBmonk3y, ubuntu drives me mad everytime i use it with a really annoying windowing bug thats existed in every version i tried
Dec 02 18:39:49 * lcuk will be glad to get rid of it
Dec 02 18:41:41 <NooBmonk3y> lol
Dec 02 18:42:00 <NooBmonk3y> lcuk, great for the qt side of things, wish i had a pc that could handle it in a vm ;)
Dec 02 18:42:05 <trumee> can i delete /lib/modules in my scratchbox?
Dec 02 18:42:07 <nidO> tbh iv just always happily stuck with windows on my workstation
Dec 02 18:42:16 <NooBmonk3y> anyway... healthcheck doesnt seem to be packaging right, again lol
Dec 02 18:42:21 <trumee> without bricking my scratchbox?
Dec 02 18:42:29 <NooBmonk3y> nidO, moved so qt worked correctly lol - and it is :P
Dec 02 18:47:32 <BCMM_> NooBmonk3y: did you just push a version of healthcheck consisting solely of a copyright notice?
Dec 02 18:53:19 <BCMM_> you see, healthcheck just updated, and now dpkg -L healthcheck lists only /usr/share/doc/healthcheck/copyright
Dec 02 18:53:30 <BCMM_> (which of course has been removed by that thing that removes docs)
Dec 02 18:54:51 <MohammadAG> NooBmonk3y, did you get my last two messages?
Dec 02 18:57:21 <NooBmonk3y> BCMM,  possibly
Dec 02 18:57:24 <NooBmonk3y> MohammadAG,  no
Dec 02 18:58:01 * NooBmonk3y is trying to figure out packaging
Dec 02 18:58:14 <trumee> Has anybody compiled a CUSTOM kernel here?
Dec 02 18:58:18 <MohammadAG> <MohammadAG> NooBmonk3y, read last night's logs
Dec 02 18:58:18 <MohammadAG> <MohammadAG> $(APPNAME) is Healthcheck, debian packaging forbids capitals in the name
Dec 02 18:58:19 <MohammadAG> * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).
Dec 02 18:58:56 <MohammadAG> apt-get source kernel; cd kernel-2.6.28; MAKE="make -j 6" fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -b
Dec 02 18:58:59 <MohammadAG> it's that easy
Dec 02 18:59:01 <NooBmonk3y> ohhhhhhhh
Dec 02 18:59:12 <NooBmonk3y> wtf Mo?!
Dec 02 18:59:19 <MohammadAG> you might want to change the 6 depending on the number of cores you have
Dec 02 18:59:29 <NooBmonk3y> no idea what you are on
Dec 02 18:59:37 <NooBmonk3y> easier for me to just remove all caps?
Dec 02 19:00:25 <BCMM_> NooBmonk3y: i just checked on my desktop, healthcheck_2.9.4_armel.deb is 8.0kB
Dec 02 19:00:33 <NooBmonk3y> ;)
Dec 02 19:00:39 <NooBmonk3y> i'ma fixing, i'ma fixing
Dec 02 19:00:46 <MohammadAG> NooBmonk3y, check debian/rules, install:
Dec 02 19:01:08 <dany_> hi all
Dec 02 19:01:09 <BCMM_> well, no it isn't. my smallest possible file is, but you get the point
Dec 02 19:01:17 <BCMM_> dany_: g'day
Dec 02 19:01:45 <MohammadAG> NooBmonk3y, 	cd builddir && $(MAKE) INSTALL_ROOT=$(CURDIR)/debian/$(APPNAME) install
Dec 02 19:01:50 <trumee> MohammadAG: i enabled NAT. did make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules_install. and copied the modules to N900. modprobe nf_conntrack returns "disagrees about version of symbol skb_copy_bits, Unknown symbol skb_copy_bits".
Dec 02 19:01:54 <MohammadAG> Change $(APPNAME) to healthcheck
Dec 02 19:01:56 <BCMM_> finally. i've been using extras-devel all this time in the hope that stuff will break
Dec 02 19:02:19 <MohammadAG> err
Dec 02 19:02:23 <NooBmonk3y> MohammadAG,  thats greek to me
Dec 02 19:02:28 <MohammadAG> trumee, how did you enable NAT?
Dec 02 19:02:31 <NooBmonk3y> just changing all references to lower case
Dec 02 19:02:58 <MohammadAG> usually, you make rx51_defconfig, change the .config file, make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules, then strip the modules
Dec 02 19:03:01 <BCMM_> do i know how to read dates? has the following happened yet? 2010-12-03 17:57 UTC
Dec 02 19:03:04 <MohammadAG> no!
Dec 02 19:03:16 <MohammadAG> NooBmonk3y,
Dec 02 19:03:21 <NooBmonk3y> too late
Dec 02 19:03:23 <MohammadAG> get my source file from extras-devel
Dec 02 19:03:26 <MohammadAG> :/ k
Dec 02 19:03:31 <MohammadAG> fix your .desktop file then
Dec 02 19:03:34 <BCMM_> i thought not. what is it doing on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/healthcheck/2.9.4/ ?
Dec 02 19:03:34 <NooBmonk3y> i am :)
Dec 02 19:03:40 <MohammadAG> the binary will probably use the name healthcheck
Dec 02 19:03:52 <BCMM_> it just says date, not what it is the date of
Dec 02 19:03:53 <trumee> MohammadAG: emabled Netfiler modules in the kernel.
Dec 02 19:03:57 <MohammadAG> BCMM_, the build failed, wait it out!
Dec 02 19:04:12 <MohammadAG> where is "the kernel" exactly
Dec 02 19:04:25 <BCMM_> MohammadAG: i'm not sure i understand... i was just wondering what it was supposed to be teh date of
Dec 02 19:04:36 <trumee> MohammadAG: The kernel is in a scratchbox.
Dec 02 19:04:50 <BCMM_> given that it's next to an event which seems to have happened in the past
Dec 02 19:05:01 <MohammadAG> well duh, I mean where did you enable the modules...
Dec 02 19:05:46 <trumee> MohammadAG: i copied the modules to /home/user on N900 and did an insmod ./blah.ko
Dec 02 19:06:21 <MohammadAG> sigh, we're not on the same page are we?
Dec 02 19:06:28 <trumee> MohammadAG: seems not :(
Dec 02 19:06:51 <trumee> MohammadAG: ah. you mean enabled modules in the kernel?
Dec 02 19:07:53 <trumee> MohammadAG: i am a bit lost on what you are on about? I did a make menuconfig in my gentoo box to generate the .config.  And copied the .config over to scratchbox.
Dec 02 19:09:10 <MohammadAG> trumee, that's wrong
Dec 02 19:09:33 <MohammadAG> trumee, make rx51_defconfig, edit the .config file, then go on with make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules
Dec 02 19:10:25 <trumee> MohammadAG: yes, i copied rx51_defconfig to .config. and edited .config outside scratchbox, copied it back to scratchbox and did  make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules
Dec 02 19:10:52 <trumee> MohammadAG: so yes i did start with rx51_defconfig, if that is what you mean.
Dec 02 19:11:03 <BCMM_> i talked to the libflac8 package maintainer. he said the issue was caused by having a non-nokia version of libsndfile, and now i have no idea who's bug the PA problem is
Dec 02 19:11:20 <BCMM_> (pulse links libsndfile, nokia's libsndfile doesn't link libflac)
Dec 02 19:12:17 <trumee> MohammadAG: what i am wondering about is that, do all the network modules need to be recompiled after NAT support?
Dec 02 19:12:25 <MohammadAG> why all that?
Dec 02 19:12:37 <MohammadAG> do everything in scratchbox
Dec 02 19:13:00 <trumee> MohammadAG: ok, i will try again. i was under the impression that make menuconfig doesnt work in scratchbox
Dec 02 19:13:38 <MohammadAG> don't do menuconfig!
Dec 02 19:13:50 <MohammadAG> just make rx51_defconfig, it will generate a .config
Dec 02 19:15:24 <NooBmonk3y> MohammadAG, you are becoming very authorative ;) hehe
Dec 02 19:16:01 <trumee> MohammadAG: seems it is possible to use make menuconfig , http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide#Compiling_Internal_Kernel_Modules
Dec 02 19:17:08 <MohammadAG> as you wish
Dec 02 19:17:14 <MohammadAG> you'll just make it harder on yourself
Dec 02 19:18:15 <trumee> MohammadAG: problem is i dont know which modules to enable without looking at menuconfig :)
Dec 02 19:22:38 <trumee> MohammadAG: do i use this after compilation?  for FILE in $(find . -name '*.ko'); do strip --remove-section=.comment --remove-section=.note --strip-unneeded $FILE; done
Dec 02 19:22:57 <MohammadAG> yeah, see debian/rules
Dec 02 19:26:28 <trumee> MohammadAG: then make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules_install, and copy /lib/modules to N900:/home/users/kernel
Dec 02 19:27:51 <MohammadAG> yeah, or /lib/modules and depmod -a
Dec 02 19:30:03 <trumee> MohammadAG: insmod  kernel/net/netfilter/x_tables.ko returns "x_tables: no symbol version for struct_module"
Dec 02 19:31:41 <trumee> MohammadAG: did i bugger something up?
Dec 02 19:36:31 <trumee> MohammadAG: ok, i am not going to do any menuconfig. Will recompile the kernel again, and will NOT edit .config. Will copy the modules over. Hopefully, the modules will remain virgin.
Dec 02 19:43:57 <RST38h> Glow-in-the-Dark Uranium Soap
Dec 02 19:47:10 <trumee> MohammadAG: nope, didnt help. Copied the virgin modules over to /home/user/kernel, insmod net/netfilter/x_tables.ko returns "x_tables: no symbol version for struct_module"
Dec 02 19:47:55 <MohammadAG> i'll be back at night, probably midnight :P
Dec 02 19:48:03 <MohammadAG> friends over
Dec 02 19:48:10 <trumee> MohammadAG: no worries. enjoy!
Dec 02 19:48:25 <MohammadAG> :D
Dec 02 19:50:27 <johnsq> Hi
Dec 02 20:02:39 <crashanddie_> You guys remember the schedular patch in the Linux kernel?
Dec 02 20:02:51 <crashanddie_> s/lar/ler/
Dec 02 20:02:52 <infobot> crashanddie_ meant: You guys remember the scheduler patch in the Linux kernel?
Dec 02 20:03:31 <crashanddie_> It bumped our VoIP/SIP server to go from 600 simultaneous calls to 1000.
Dec 02 20:04:32 <kerio> bfs as opposed to cfs^
Dec 02 20:04:33 <kerio> ?
Dec 02 20:04:52 <crashanddie_> was that for me?
Dec 02 20:06:24 <kerio> yeah
Dec 02 20:06:52 <crashanddie_> then I have no idea what you're talking about :P
Dec 02 20:10:05 <fnordianslip> anyone know how i can add the QT target in QT Creator 2.0.1 on my Mac to target QT4.7 as shipped with PR1.3?  It seems that the Nokia QT SDK doesn't support Mac.  I thought the latest madde installer would update the QT target but it doesn't seem to have done so.
Dec 02 20:12:19 <trumee> nicolai: was that patch for Calendar widget useful?
Dec 02 20:13:03 <trumee> javispedro: i have picked up the kernel compilation from last night.
Dec 02 20:13:30 <javispedro> and? :)
Dec 02 20:13:40 <nicolai> trumee: just started to look at it.
Dec 02 20:14:10 <trumee> javispedro: still on it. compile will finish soon.
Dec 02 20:14:19 <javispedro> ah.
Dec 02 20:15:05 <trumee> javispedro: had some problem with "no symbol version for struct_module". but a full kernel compile i think fixes it.
Dec 02 20:15:14 <trumee> nicolai: cool
Dec 02 20:18:29 <trumee> javispedro: first casualty. insmod x_tables, returns "x_tables: disagrees about version of symbol seq_open_net"
Dec 02 20:20:25 <javispedro> so, unless you messed up the kernel version you're building vs what's on the device, this is one module you will need to update the kernel image (or some other module) to use
Dec 02 20:22:13 <trumee> javispedro: this is diff between new .config and stock, http://pastebin.com/dE6C4fYH
Dec 02 20:22:27 <ioan>  hi, how do I check what version of libicd-network-3g-ipv6 I have installed?
Dec 02 20:23:07 <trumee> javispedro: notice on line 46 i have CONFIG_NF_NAT_NEEDED=y, so guess it is not a module?
Dec 02 20:23:31 <andre__> ioan: dpkg -l packagename
Dec 02 20:24:16 <trumee> javispedro: if i actually flash this kernel and the device doesnt boot, is it possible to flash the stock kernel without loosing my rootfs?
Dec 02 20:24:31 <NooBmonk3y> hmmm is there a template to file/folder structure when building apps? :)
Dec 02 20:25:06 <ioan> thank andre__
Dec 02 20:25:09 <ioan> s
Dec 02 20:25:24 <javispedro> trumee: yes. in fact, you're able to boot a kernel without flashing it. issue here is that kernel is incompatible with existing modules....
Dec 02 20:25:54 <javispedro> the solution would be to change version, add new set of modules, etc. but you end up replicating the power kernel.
Dec 02 20:26:34 <trumee> javispedro: The whole reeason i am not installing power kernel is because, i had very poor pulseaudio performance with it.
Dec 02 20:26:50 <trumee> javispedro: i want to be close to the stock kernel with NAT support.
Dec 02 20:27:17 <trumee> javispedro: how do i flash the stock kernel, if the device fails to boot-up?
Dec 02 20:27:47 <javispedro> the device WILL fail to boot up because the kernel you made might be incompatible with the modules that are on the rootfs.
Dec 02 20:28:00 <trumee> javispedro: ./flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f will probably overwrite rootfs.
Dec 02 20:28:25 <trumee> javispedro: i plan to create my own version and install all the modules and flash my own kernel
Dec 02 20:28:39 <javispedro> so, no way back.
Dec 02 20:28:45 <javispedro> backup and cross finger.
Dec 02 20:28:51 <trumee> javispedro: i guess with that there will not be any module incompatbility.
Dec 02 20:29:20 <trumee> uh oh! doesnt sound good then . you mean i can flash stock over my own kernel without overwriting rootfs?
Dec 02 20:29:30 <trumee> *cant
Dec 02 20:29:45 <javispedro> you can.... but if you replaced the modules...
Dec 02 20:30:04 <trumee> javispedro: ah! i see what you mean.
Dec 02 20:30:23 <javispedro> that's what I say that ideally you should bump the version number, install modules in a different dir... etc etc
Dec 02 20:30:32 <trumee> flashing will only write the image but will not install the modules.
Dec 02 20:30:32 <javispedro> there was a problem with that but I can't recall it atm
Dec 02 20:31:15 <trumee> javispedro: why does power kernel use their own flasher?
Dec 02 20:31:30 <javispedro> they don't, they just use the ondevice afaik?
Dec 02 20:31:32 <NooBmonk3y> MohammadAG,  :)
Dec 02 20:31:39 <NooBmonk3y> have updated git, still no packaging luck
Dec 02 20:32:28 <trumee> javispedro: what is kernel-power-flasher?
Dec 02 20:32:57 <javispedro> probably what calls flasher on the postinst
Dec 02 20:34:47 <trumee> javispedro: can i simulate kernel-power behaviour but use my own kernel?
Dec 02 20:34:55 <javispedro> very probably
Dec 02 20:35:08 <javispedro> also, another thing to try
Dec 02 20:35:19 <javispedro> for reference, to load a kernel without flashing it
Dec 02 20:35:30 <javispedro> ./flasher-3.5 -l -k vmlinux -b
Dec 02 20:35:44 <javispedro> so
Dec 02 20:36:02 <javispedro> another thing to try would be to load your kernel; maybe the only incompatible modules are netfilter ones
Dec 02 20:36:08 <javispedro> so it might boot.
Dec 02 20:36:41 <trumee> javispedro: what will the above command do?
Dec 02 20:36:49 <javispedro> trumee: read flasher -h ;)
Dec 02 20:36:58 <javispedro> -Load, -Kernel, -Boot
Dec 02 20:37:15 <javispedro> boot it without flashing
Dec 02 20:37:17 <trumee> javispedro: i see it here  as well, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide#Testing_kernel
Dec 02 20:38:12 <trumee> javispedro: so if it doesnt flash then how does it bootup. and i should leave the /lib/modules as it is.
Dec 02 20:38:50 <javispedro> a) by booting it b) yes, that is what I was saying would be interesting to test
Dec 02 20:39:47 <trumee> javispedro: do i need to shutdown the device before running that flasher command?
Dec 02 20:40:01 <javispedro> yes...
Dec 02 20:40:33 <trumee> i havent actually copied the new modules into /lib/modules, they are still sitting /home/user/kernel on the device.
Dec 02 20:41:12 <trumee> i didnt want to mess-up the stock modules directory, so was doing insmod from my own folder.
Dec 02 20:41:48 <trumee> shall i leave the stock modules as it is and boot up with the new kernel?
Dec 02 20:45:29 <trumee> that was quick, 100% (1706 of 1706 kB, avg. 23706 kB/s)
Dec 02 20:45:52 <javispedro> that's what I'm saying
Dec 02 20:46:03 <javispedro> ensure everything works, though
Dec 02 20:46:09 <trumee> javispedro: the dots appeared briefly, but now only the charging led is glowing. do i need to switch it off?
Dec 02 20:46:20 <javispedro> "on" you mean?
Dec 02 20:46:51 <trumee> javispedro: after the kernel flash, it is now only showing the charging led. The lcd is off.
Dec 02 20:47:11 <trumee> javispedro: so i guess the device is not turned on.
Dec 02 20:47:25 <trumee> javispedro: does it mean the bootup failed?
Dec 02 20:47:27 <javispedro> so, switch it on....
Dec 02 20:47:49 <javispedro> launch flasher again before
Dec 02 20:47:50 <trumee> javispedro: ok, switching it on.
Dec 02 20:48:18 <trumee> crap. missed the flasher bit. going to try this again.
Dec 02 20:49:36 <trumee>  a) launch flasher, b)insert usb cable, c) let the flash happen and d) wait.  And i dont have to press 'u' key. correct?
Dec 02 20:50:38 <javispedro> mostly. if you have to switch it on/off, launch flasher again
Dec 02 20:51:09 <trumee> javispedro: nope doesnt boot up. It shows the dots flashing for a moment, then everything goes dark.
Dec 02 20:51:50 <trumee> so that means the stock /lib/modules are not compatible with my kernel.
Dec 02 20:52:20 <javispedro> no
Dec 02 20:52:31 <javispedro> run flasher again, hit the power button, wait
Dec 02 20:53:03 <javispedro> if it fails to boot again there was a way to force it to skip actdead but I don'tremember that either.
Dec 02 20:53:06 <javispedro> getting tired :)
Dec 02 20:54:22 <trumee> ok, the dots are going on for a longer time (this time).
Dec 02 20:55:07 <trumee> javispedro: sorry for all this trouble :)
Dec 02 20:56:14 <trumee> javispedro: i hope i have not corrupted  the rootfs, since i switched it off midway when it was acting dead. At the moment it is showing the dots.
Dec 02 20:58:41 <javispedro> still?
Dec 02 20:59:05 <javispedro> then it probably failed, unplug usb, remove battery, start normally
Dec 02 20:59:23 <trumee> javispedro: yes, it is still showing the dots.
Dec 02 21:00:55 <trumee> javispedro: ok, i used the power button to switch it off and switch it on again. Now it has booted up using the stock kernel.
Dec 02 21:01:30 <javispedro> so there you have the answer: modules are not compatible :)
Dec 02 21:02:26 <trumee> javispedro: so, the only approach left is to go the kernel-power way.
Dec 02 21:02:32 <javispedro> yep
Dec 02 21:02:44 <javispedro> or research why they're incompatible =)
Dec 02 21:03:29 <trumee> javispedro: guess, easier option will be not to do the research :p
Dec 02 21:05:06 <trumee> javispedro: i suppose, i will have to back-up the rootfs before i flash my own kernel incase boot fails.
Dec 02 21:05:36 <javispedro> yes.
Dec 02 21:06:06 <trumee> javispedro: if there was a dynamic way to change the symlink /lib/modules/current, that would have been awesome.
Dec 02 21:06:26 <javispedro> that rings a bell
Dec 02 21:06:34 <javispedro> I think it was related to the problem I was mentioning earlier
Dec 02 21:07:04 <trumee> javispedro: i could have booted up my kernel and if it failed, on flashing stock /lib/modules/current symlink would point to the stock modules.
Dec 02 22:03:19 <pupnik> http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2010/12/wow-that-was-quick-obama-tsa-deploys-scanner-checkpoints-at-bus-stations-video/   [ Wow! That Was Quick… Obama Administration Deploys Scanner Checkpoints at Bus Stations (Video) ]
Dec 02 22:03:26 <Venemo> hi guys :)
Dec 02 22:04:32 <Venemo> I attended an event today which was called "Nokia developers' club", and it was quite nice :)
Dec 02 22:05:05 <pupnik> what's that
Dec 02 22:05:36 <Venemo> well there was a presentation about Qt and related stuff
Dec 02 22:05:55 <Venemo> plus a free pizza for everyone, and a cup with a Nokia logo
Dec 02 22:06:51 <Venemo> and also, people could talk and tell their opinions about Qt Creator and Nokia development in general
Dec 02 22:08:54 <lcuk> Venemo, cool
Dec 02 22:09:24 <Venemo> Nokia seemed pretty desperate to get developers to develop for their devices
Dec 02 22:09:45 <crashanddie_> Venemo: did you ask them why Nokia seemed like they were looking like the only company in the 21st century (apart from IBM) that seemed like they were drowning in the own abyss of their mismanagement?
Dec 02 22:10:20 <chx> Yeah. It's frustrating. You have the N900 which is the most awesome hackerphone evah and it's just... unfinished.
Dec 02 22:10:30 <crashanddie_> woah, three similes in one sentence.
Dec 02 22:10:37 <Venemo> crashanddie_: well the regional marketing director was there, but I didn't think he could meaninfully answer this question... so I didn't ask
Dec 02 22:10:47 <lcuk> chx then hack it.
Dec 02 22:10:55 <Venemo> chx: if it was finished, it wouldn't be a hacker phone, would it?
Dec 02 22:11:02 <chx> Well
Dec 02 22:11:02 <crashanddie_> sure it would
Dec 02 22:11:05 <lcuk> community ssu is being built so it can be continued
Dec 02 22:11:13 <chx> there are problems far beyond my abilities to fix
Dec 02 22:11:33 <chx> like the zooming being per app instead of being part of the ... X server? whatever handles the display
Dec 02 22:11:40 <crashanddie_> but enabling people to use it as a real corporate device, with a proper calendar, responsive UI, and email that actually functionned wouldn't have been too much to ask for I reckon
Dec 02 22:11:45 <chx> same with portrait
Dec 02 22:11:56 <lcuk> zooming?
Dec 02 22:12:03 <Venemo> there was also a prototype E7 and a C7
Dec 02 22:12:13 <crashanddie_> Venemo: how is the E7 looking?
Dec 02 22:12:21 * lcuk heads off
Dec 02 22:12:23 <lcuk> gnite fellas \o
Dec 02 22:12:27 <crashanddie_> lcuk: later, night
Dec 02 22:12:36 <Venemo> gnight lcuk :)
Dec 02 22:12:45 <Venemo> crashanddie_: it was very solid
Dec 02 22:12:50 <chx> lcuk: later, night, you can't zoom in most apps unless the app is built for it , most painful with irc lcients. i might be wrong.
Dec 02 22:13:21 <Venemo> crashanddie_: the keyboard snaps out like on the N97, but it feels a lot more stable
Dec 02 22:13:30 <Venemo> crashanddie_: the screen feels big
Dec 02 22:13:54 <Venemo> crashanddie_: the OS is standard Symbian^3, nothing fancy (and I didn't look at it too much)
Dec 02 22:14:08 <crashanddie_> apparently the UI is a bit laggy to touch responses
Dec 02 22:14:23 <Venemo> crashanddie_: no, it was fine
Dec 02 22:14:31 <Venemo> crashanddie_: afaic
Dec 02 22:14:35 <Venemo> crashanddie_: afaict
Dec 02 22:14:58 <Venemo> crashanddie_: also, it has a 4-row qwerty which is nice
Dec 02 22:15:14 <lcuk> chx, zoom?
Dec 02 22:15:22 <Venemo> crashanddie_: and multi-touch too
Dec 02 22:15:27 <crashanddie_> yeah, keyboard seems awesome
Dec 02 22:15:37 <crashanddie_> not sure about HDMI-out
Dec 02 22:15:40 <chx> lcuk: yes, zoom. You know, too small fonts....
Dec 02 22:16:03 <lcuk> chx, ahh cos all apps zoom in from dashboard
Dec 02 22:16:10 <chx> lcuk: huh?
Dec 02 22:16:16 <crashanddie_> lcuk: are you on weed?
Dec 02 22:16:21 <Venemo> the keyboard is tilted in the same angle as the N900's small stand tilts the N900's screen
Dec 02 22:16:23 <lcuk> no crashanddie_
Dec 02 22:16:25 <chx> ah yes but you cant zoom in once in the app
Dec 02 22:16:35 <lcuk> chx understood now
Dec 02 22:16:38 <chx> the E7 is *Symbian*
Dec 02 22:16:40 <lcuk> you mean like browser/image zooming
Dec 02 22:16:45 * lcuk understands now
Dec 02 22:16:46 <chx> it's dead before it's born
Dec 02 22:17:04 <chx> come on, bury the dead horse, bring on Meego.
Dec 02 22:17:08 <crashanddie_> chx: not really, it might be nice for business
Dec 02 22:17:33 <crashanddie_> chx: I'm still a hardcore blackberry user for business, but Nokia e-series have always appealed to me
Dec 02 22:17:36 <Venemo> chx, I don't think so. Symbian is great for a certain target audience. also note that MeeGo is nowhere near ready yet
Dec 02 22:18:05 <lcuk> chx, some of us are already in meego :)
Dec 02 22:18:07 <chx> and? Nokia has a proven track record of releasing unready !#@$# devices
Dec 02 22:18:31 <chx> Also note that I have a Nokia E70 and an E51
Dec 02 22:18:38 <Venemo> lcuk, do you mean the netbook version?
Dec 02 22:19:18 <chx> [14:09] <lcuk> you mean like browser/image zooming <= i mean like that yeah but TEXT is more important than images.  It's ... braindead. why is that not a feature of the display?
Dec 02 22:20:07 <chx> Also, if Nokia had brains which it clearly does not then it would not have abandoned the E70-like devies
Dec 02 22:20:11 <lcuk> chx i never noticed a problem with the ui needing it
Dec 02 22:20:22 <chx> lcuk: no? hm, and how do you irc on it?
Dec 02 22:20:22 <lcuk> but for books and editing, sure - but those seem to have fnt adjust
Dec 02 22:20:34 <lcuk> chx xchat has a font size option..
Dec 02 22:20:45 <Venemo> oh, and almost forgot, there also was a QML demo, which was pretty nice
Dec 02 22:20:54 <chx> I am getting to the point where I want to sit down and write a goddamn IRC client :(
Dec 02 22:21:18 * SpeedEvil finds xchat OK.
Dec 02 22:21:20 <Venemo> chx, which one do you use currently?
Dec 02 22:21:38 <nomis> chx: writing an IRC client is a rite of passage.
Dec 02 22:21:50 <lcuk> chx, been there, done that :P http://liqbase.net/liq.20091201_141600._maemo.scr.png
Dec 02 22:22:09 * lcuk was going anyway
Dec 02 22:22:19 <nomis> chx: (the milder form is writing an IRC bot)
Dec 02 22:22:41 <chx> lcuk: looks pretty where is it?
Dec 02 22:23:31 <lcuk> chx, very unstable old stuff (note the datestamp) i think its on my git repo
Dec 02 22:24:01 <SpeedEvil> hmm
Dec 02 22:25:22 <javispedro> chx: write a java vm instead.
Dec 02 22:26:26 <Venemo> chx: I found Communi a rather usable IRC client for Maemo. it is a bit unfinished (it's in -devel), but it is easier to use than XChat
Dec 02 22:31:34 <chx> Communi?
Dec 02 22:31:35 <chx> what's that?
Dec 02 22:31:42 <Venemo> an IRC client
Dec 02 22:31:51 <chx> i thought so
Dec 02 22:31:56 <chx> http://maemo.org/packages/view/communi/ interesting!
Dec 02 22:32:07 <BCMM> does it do kinetic scroll?
Dec 02 22:32:07 <chx> no fancy++
Dec 02 22:32:28 <BCMM> no fancy++
Dec 02 22:32:31 <BCMM> indeed
Dec 02 22:32:39 <Venemo> BCMM: yes
Dec 02 22:32:40 <chx> is it normal that the battery barely stays alive for a day?
Dec 02 22:32:53 <BCMM> chx: depends on what you were doing
Dec 02 22:32:53 <Venemo> chx, mine does too
Dec 02 22:32:53 <toresbe> yeah, in active use.
Dec 02 22:33:04 <javispedro> with x-chat on, possibly.
Dec 02 22:33:07 <toresbe> I just use SSH, screen and irssi. Killer combo.
Dec 02 22:33:07 <BCMM> i will have a look; last time i looked there was just irssi and xchat
Dec 02 22:33:34 <Venemo> BCMM: the ui has a few small glitches, but overall it is usable IMO
Dec 02 22:34:16 <BCMM> thing about "nothing fancy", is that one wants no fancy features except what you use
Dec 02 22:34:34 <BCMM> for example, i'm thinking it's nice that it's lightweight, but i hope it supports server passwords
Dec 02 22:34:47 <Venemo> BCMM: it does yes
Dec 02 22:35:24 <SpeedEvil> xchat on logged into wifi lasts ~40h for me
Dec 02 22:35:35 <SpeedEvil> 12h on 2g, and 6 on 3
Dec 02 22:36:54 <HanttaW> Hi people. Is this right place for some questions about maemo/linux memory usage. Especially hildon-home/desktop services.
Dec 02 22:37:18 <Venemo> HanttaW: ask, and the guys here'll try to answer :)
Dec 02 22:37:53 <SpeedEvil> First get that
Dec 02 22:37:57 <SpeedEvil> http://www.selenic.com/smem/
Dec 02 22:37:59 <SpeedEvil> RSS is a lie
Dec 02 22:38:06 <SpeedEvil> (the python script works just fine)
Dec 02 22:38:11 <SpeedEvil> (on the device)
Dec 02 22:38:42 <HanttaW> Nice :) Okey here is current situation from htop: http://pastebin.com/2ygxmFdp sorted by virtual column...and doesn´t look good :|
Dec 02 22:39:06 <SpeedEvil> virt is almost completely irrelevant
Dec 02 22:39:16 <HanttaW> hmmm
Dec 02 22:39:47 <SpeedEvil> you have 2G (? or is it 4) of virt address space
Dec 02 22:40:02 <BCMM> if it goes flat fast on wifi, your router sucks
Dec 02 22:40:03 <HanttaW> I have noticed that it keeps growing and growing. Pretty soon my device starts lag little. First app from where I notice it is camera..it just starts stalling.
Dec 02 22:40:13 <BCMM> see if it can be configured to suck less, with respect to power-saving
Dec 02 22:41:12 <SpeedEvil> http://troydhanson.wordpress.com/2010/07/18/virtual-memory-in-a-nutshell/ looks useful
Dec 02 22:41:22 <HanttaW> And I have stuff installed from devel & testing so in a way this is something that I´m expecting =) But trying to understand and learn.
Dec 02 22:41:31 <SpeedEvil> HanttaW: yes - you're probably more caring about PSS and USS
Dec 02 22:41:45 <SpeedEvil> HanttaW: though some things can use CPU too, and make stuff slug
Dec 02 22:42:53 <javispedro> SpeedEvil: 3G
Dec 02 22:42:56 <javispedro> er..
Dec 02 22:43:04 <HanttaW> Dear god how many different memory there is. My head feels dizzy.
Dec 02 22:43:09 <javispedro> 3 GiB of user address space
Dec 02 22:43:21 <SpeedEvil> HanttaW: yes. It's annoyingly complex.
Dec 02 22:43:37 <SpeedEvil> HanttaW: And you ideally need to understand it if you're trying to work out why it's slugging
Dec 02 22:44:08 <toresbe> It's fun to carry on a conversation at work, then continue it on the subway home, and then keep it going in the elevator going into the apartment...
Dec 02 22:44:29 <javispedro> you could do that with the mobile phone too.
Dec 02 22:44:36 <toresbe> Well, not on IRC.
Dec 02 22:44:39 <toresbe> ssh/screen/irssi is love. :)
Dec 02 22:44:44 <HanttaW> SpeedEvil: Yep. I know. On windows I have just used processexplorer to hunt down memory leaks and it is pretty easy.
Dec 02 22:45:11 <javispedro> Well, Windows has the same "memory types" so the question is "what does process explorer show?"
Dec 02 22:45:33 <SpeedEvil> rss growth is not meaningless generally
Dec 02 22:45:40 <Venemo> good night guys, I'm leaving
Dec 02 22:45:42 <Venemo> have fun
Dec 02 22:45:44 <javispedro> gnite Venemo
Dec 02 22:45:50 <Venemo> :)
Dec 02 22:45:56 <SpeedEvil> if a process is growing, and other processes are not, then that's a good inidcation that a closer look at it may be warranted.
Dec 02 22:46:53 <BCMM_> hmm, this client seems to have no keyboard tabbing or fullscreen
Dec 02 22:47:33 <HanttaW> SpeedEvil: Currently only thing what I have noticed that is growing is virtual size of those top processes but I need more data.
Dec 02 22:48:22 <BCMM_> nor a way to copy and paste
Dec 02 22:48:47 <jacekowski> virtual size is just virtual
Dec 02 22:49:00 <BCMM_> is that thing the browser uses to enable the cursor available to other applications?
Dec 02 22:49:01 <jacekowski> and you don't have to worry about it too much
Dec 02 22:49:02 <HanttaW> btw. How I can set my putty session to N900 send keepalives. Currently it´s disconnecting after certain amount of idle.
Dec 02 22:49:10 <chem|st> re
Dec 02 22:49:25 <jacekowski> HanttaW: it's server thing
Dec 02 22:49:46 <jacekowski> HanttaW: to send "pings" every so often
Dec 02 22:49:57 <jacekowski> HanttaW: you would have to rebuild openssh for n900 to support it
Dec 02 22:50:08 <HanttaW> sigh
Dec 02 22:51:37 <HanttaW> I probably just need more memory debug data, but virtual size increasing is just result of something other part of memory growing.
Dec 02 22:55:28 <jacekowski> it may mean that you are running something like that
Dec 02 22:55:53 <jacekowski> jacekowski:~# pastebinit test.c
Dec 02 22:55:53 <jacekowski> http://pastebin.com/MvFzXdLk
Dec 02 22:57:29 <BCMM> jacekowski: surely you can do that in teh ssh config file?
Dec 02 22:59:03 <chx> Communi is awesome.
Dec 02 22:59:44 <chx> now, i will need to line my backpack with a battery :)
Dec 02 23:01:28 <jacekowski> BCMM: no if it's not compiled in
Dec 02 23:01:37 <jacekowski> BCMM: and last time i checked it's not compiled in in any distro
Dec 02 23:04:23 <BCMM> jacekowski: are we talking about adding "KeepAlive yes" to /etc/ssh/sshd_config, or something else?
Dec 02 23:04:35 <jacekowski> yes
Dec 02 23:04:42 <jacekowski> but that's just going to fail i
Dec 02 23:05:12 <jacekowski> and there is one more thing
Dec 02 23:16:31 <HanttaW> So it seems that I´m going to need http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/sp-smaps-measure and time to read & learn some memory usage stuff.
Dec 02 23:17:48 <HanttaW> one more question and then I´m off to bed. Any neat dpkg commands that lists only installed packages that are dependend on python.
Dec 02 23:18:44 <ShadowJK> jacekowski, putty itself can send keepalives too
Dec 02 23:19:40 * ShadowJK vaguely remembers it in options somewhere
Dec 02 23:21:00 <chem|st> HanttaW: that should be listed within python
Dec 02 23:21:23 <ShadowJK> HanttaW, btw I'd start with disabling every widget and similar things on desktop, basically empty start.. reboot for clean start, not vsz, use it for awhile, note vsz. Add a single widget, reboot for clean start, note vsz, use it for awhile, note vsz..
Dec 02 23:21:49 <fladnag> TRACKERD SUCKS
Dec 02 23:21:51 <ShadowJK> apt-cache rdepends python
Dec 02 23:21:51 <HanttaW> I´m just reading some bug reports and looks like that at least "Eero Tamminen" is somewhat recommending to keep away from apps that are dependend on python and are constantly running.
Dec 02 23:22:01 <fladnag> !!!
Dec 02 23:22:47 <ShadowJK> but that lists everything, also stuff not installed :/
Dec 02 23:22:48 <HanttaW> Currently I have home calendar widget and media player widget and two desktops with just app shortcuts and bookmarks.
Dec 02 23:24:04 <HanttaW> I think it was this bug report: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8723
Dec 02 23:24:06 <povbot> Bug 8723: Items in hildon-home can be non-responsive for several minutes
Dec 02 23:25:08 <ShadowJK> I noticed less memory use after removing the python based sleeper widget, and that was the only python widget I had iirc..
Dec 02 23:25:09 <nomis> chem|st: I hacked a small tool to dump them: These are the shutdown codes from the open source tvbgone-kit in human readable form: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/tvbgone-codes.txt
Dec 02 23:25:42 <nomis> chem|st: (untested, but look somewhat plausible)
Dec 02 23:25:49 <fladnag> JEAH i had some baad "longtime"systemhangs too
Dec 02 23:25:55 <HanttaW> Okey. I need to go bed, but thanks for all the tips. I´m trying to find out some time to dig deeper on this.
Dec 02 23:26:18 <fladnag> (n900)
Dec 02 23:26:23 <fladnag> ...
Dec 02 23:26:38 <HanttaW> Good night
Dec 02 23:32:11 <javispedro> ShadowJK: I kinda remember some weird interactions with long running python applications wasting memory, not due to any leak but the way the python GC works
Dec 02 23:33:30 <javispedro> basically for the same reason most java applications eventually fill up to -Xmx size
Dec 02 23:37:54 <jacekowski> in normal languages world it's called memory leak
Dec 02 23:38:37 <ds3> isn't it call garbage collection incompetance in java? ;)
Dec 02 23:40:07 <javispedro> jacekowski: not exactly
Dec 02 23:41:40 <BugBlue> if java had true garbage collection it would delete itself
Dec 02 23:44:33 <pupnik> hahah
Dec 02 23:46:53 <pupnik> javispedro: hey ever use this? enum omapfb_color_format {  OMAPFB_COLOR_CLUT_8BPP
Dec 02 23:47:12 <javispedro> nope
Dec 02 23:47:58 <pupnik> could speed up dosbox
Dec 02 23:48:32 <pupnik> you know, vga being 8-bit with a clut
Dec 02 23:48:43 <pupnik> could speed it up a lot, couldn't it
Dec 02 23:48:47 <javispedro> not sure
Dec 02 23:48:59 <javispedro> because I don't know what that is doing
Dec 02 23:49:09 <javispedro> (behind the scenes)
Dec 02 23:49:48 <pupnik> i think it works like this
Dec 02 23:50:14 <pupnik> VGA(8-bit)->24bitRGB->16bitFramebuffer
Dec 02 23:50:25 <pupnik> that would be replaced with
Dec 02 23:50:35 <pupnik> VGA(8-bit)->display
Dec 02 23:52:08 <javispedro> hmm
Dec 02 23:52:23 <javispedro> you can trigger that by setting 8 bpp in the ioctl device
Dec 02 23:52:26 <javispedro> err
Dec 02 23:52:31 <javispedro> s/ioctl/fbdev
Dec 02 23:52:46 <nox-> i guess the q is does the display hw support that mode...
Dec 02 23:53:13 <javispedro> I do not think the display has
Dec 02 23:53:28 <pupnik> ahh
Dec 02 23:53:30 <javispedro> because you're not altering the output format, rather one of the plane's format
Dec 02 23:53:42 <pupnik> if the lcd controller doesn't support it, then there's no point
Dec 02 23:53:49 <pupnik> i wonder if X11 even supports 8-bit anymore
Dec 02 23:53:57 <javispedro> it doe
Dec 02 23:53:57 <javispedro> s
Dec 02 23:54:37 <javispedro> I think there's a large chance the controller supports it
Dec 02 23:54:39 <nox-> i had to test that some time ago trying out some apple //e emulator...
Dec 02 23:54:49 <nox-> (not on n900 tho :)
Dec 02 23:55:25 <javispedro> nox-: on stock n900 there's a compositor, and the compositor will try to send whatever you have to opengl
Dec 02 23:55:30 <pupnik> xdpyinfo lists 8-bit as     depth 8, bits_per_pixel 8, scanline_pad 32
Dec 02 23:55:40 <pupnik> on my notebook
Dec 02 23:55:43 <javispedro> nox-: and ofc it will usually do the wrong thing regarding palettes
Dec 02 23:55:45 <pupnik> yea
Dec 02 23:55:55 <nox-> ok
Dec 02 23:56:09 <pupnik> i want to directly map dosbox vga memory to the framebuffer
Dec 02 23:56:21 <javispedro> pupnik: it's an interesing test.
Dec 02 23:56:32 <javispedro> actually I've done something like that recently.. but true color...
Dec 03 00:02:09 <pupnik> hmm
Dec 03 00:04:53 <javispedro> also: x11 paletted full screen application?
Dec 03 00:07:23 <fladnag> Sorry but what doyouthink how many of the 420 people inthis room have a n900 ?
Dec 03 00:07:47 <Gh0sty> most have 2? :p
Dec 03 00:08:30 <fladnag> Okey :)
Dec 03 00:08:43 <Gh0sty> (just a guess I dunno)
Dec 03 00:13:53 <Gh0sty> dammit
Dec 03 00:14:15 <Gh0sty> I am using nuevasync for syncing google calendar with my n900
Dec 03 00:14:34 <BCMM> fladnag: everyone here who has two different permutations of their nick
Dec 03 00:14:39 <Gh0sty> but just received a mail that nuevasync is suspending their free service soon and you gotta pay now :(
Dec 03 00:14:39 <BCMM> online at once
Dec 03 00:14:46 <BCMM> plus a bit
Dec 03 00:14:56 <BCMM> times several
Dec 03 00:14:58 <BCMM> -2
Dec 03 00:15:10 <pupnik> http://www.heise.de/security/meldung/Phrack-is-back-25-Jahre-digitales-Hackermagazin-1138586.html   Phrack is Back :)
Dec 03 00:15:15 <Gh0sty> any alternatives or hopes for a fix of google calendar sync directly on the n900?
Dec 03 00:34:43 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: \o/
Dec 03 00:35:33 <pupnik> lol :)
Dec 03 00:35:52 <pupnik> someone in eastern europe has to please send me cheese like this
Dec 03 00:35:58 <pupnik> http://www.krashiy.com/images/expo2006/assets2/mid_photos/3664.JPG
Dec 03 00:36:04 <pupnik> http://www.krashiy.com/images/expo2006/assets2/mid_photos/6829.jpg
Dec 03 00:36:34 <toresbe> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jpr3oe96JU is the type of Eastern European cheese with which I am most familiar
Dec 03 00:36:35 <Gh0sty> what kinda cheese is that :/
Dec 03 00:37:16 <pupnik> Korbáciky
Dec 03 00:37:34 <pupnik> in usa 'string cheese' is the industrial variant
Dec 03 00:37:49 <Gh0sty> sounds horrible :p
Dec 03 00:37:54 <pupnik> there's one family that makes an excellent variety in wisconsin
Dec 03 00:37:54 <Gh0sty> by the name alone :p
Dec 03 00:38:13 <Gh0sty> but then again i'm used to french/belgian cheeses
Dec 03 00:38:48 <pupnik> which camembert can you reccomend
Dec 03 00:40:45 <DocScrutinizer> BACON
Dec 03 00:40:52 <DocScrutinizer> MEH
Dec 03 00:41:00 <Gh0sty> we got here camembert president
Dec 03 00:41:09 <DocScrutinizer> stop talking food, I'm hungry!
Dec 03 00:41:16 <Gh0sty> ;p
Dec 03 00:41:23 <Gh0sty> for you it's around ... noon?
Dec 03 00:42:42 <Gh0sty> is there a proper way to sync google calendar with n900? or is paying for nuevasync my best shot? :/
Dec 03 00:42:42 <toresbe> 1:30 AM here
Dec 03 00:42:48 <Gh0sty> same here :p
Dec 03 00:43:28 <Gh0sty> oh pupnik toresbe seems to be french :p
Dec 03 00:43:40 <Gh0sty> you better ask him about the cheeses of france :P
Dec 03 00:43:41 <toresbe> How DARE you!
Dec 03 00:43:53 <Gh0sty> or at least thats what you whois says? :/
Dec 03 00:44:19 <toresbe> My server is in France, but despite that fact it seems to work.
Dec 03 00:44:35 <Gh0sty> lol
Dec 03 00:44:41 <Gh0sty> you're from where then?
Dec 03 00:44:43 <Gh0sty> belgium?
Dec 03 00:45:00 <toresbe> Ik ben noors!
Dec 03 00:45:05 <Gh0sty> probably just around my corner or something :p
Dec 03 00:45:24 <Gh0sty> as usual ... you go miles far only to hear a fellow belgian do a talk :p
Dec 03 00:46:22 <toresbe> Ik heb tien maanden in Vlanderen gewoont, mar mijn vlaams is helaas erg roestig.
Dec 03 00:46:48 <Gh0sty> oh you're alright
Dec 03 00:47:13 <Gh0sty> half of the country should speak it like you it wouldn't be a political crysis :p
Dec 03 00:47:36 <toresbe> haha.
Dec 03 00:47:50 <Gh0sty> hmm norway ... still somewhere on the top of my list of places to visit
Dec 03 00:48:24 <toresbe> Gh0sty: At the annual democratic socialist party youth org congress in Oslo, we actually had a representative from Animo present
Dec 03 00:48:37 <Gh0sty> lol
Dec 03 00:49:00 <toresbe> he held a nice speech and all was wonderful... then as he left the podium, our meeting leader thanked him with "merci beaucoup"
Dec 03 00:49:12 <toresbe> my head hit the table so hard I'm surprised it didn't break in two
Dec 03 00:49:18 <toresbe> the head or the table, either one
Dec 03 00:49:22 <Gh0sty> nothing new there ...
Dec 03 00:49:51 <Gh0sty> from time to time also send unfriendly mails to HR in the company who thinks we're all french
Dec 03 00:50:06 <toresbe> I mean, this guy is in a party which SPLIT OVER THE LANGUAGE ISSUE and you're talking to him in French. Class act.
Dec 03 00:50:21 <toresbe> A pretty humongous.. ehm, faux pas, as it were. :)
Dec 03 00:50:41 <Gh0sty> :p
Dec 03 00:51:12 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: who do I need to donate 15 eur to get google calendar sync to work properly? :p
Dec 03 00:53:51 <DocScrutinizer> google, every day :-P
Dec 03 00:53:59 <Gh0sty> :(
Dec 03 00:54:47 <Gh0sty> why is it not working ... read lenghty discussions about it but never found a real answer
Dec 03 00:54:57 <Gh0sty> they blame google or something ...
Dec 03 00:55:13 <Gh0sty> but it works on my good ol symbian e65
Dec 03 00:57:56 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, no idea. I'm not using google, whenever avoidable
Dec 03 00:58:04 <chem|st> missing webcal support...
Dec 03 00:58:12 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: 2nd
Dec 03 01:06:03 <Gh0sty> what do you use then for calendar?
Dec 03 01:06:23 <Gh0sty> its been a long time I had a look at that in fact
Dec 03 01:06:57 <Gh0sty> in the end I did not really find anything useable and went onto google cal :/
Dec 03 01:08:04 <pupnik> ok the mecca for string cheese is about 1000km away from me
Dec 03 01:14:58 <SpeedEvil> That is a long string.
Dec 03 01:17:43 <pupnik> lol
Dec 03 01:18:22 <pupnik> SpeedEvil: Slovakia and Poland are fighting for political recognition as the 'genuine salty cheese' country
Dec 03 01:18:34 <javispedro> lol
Dec 03 01:19:09 <javispedro> "Windows Setup couldn't find the End User License Agreement (EULA). This is a fatal error. You cannot continue with setup. Press F3 to quit."
Dec 03 01:19:22 <nox-> rofl
Dec 03 01:22:42 <pupnik> "Zázrivá - The fight for recognition of salty cheese from raw Zazriva as our product is not yet lost to Slovakia!"
Dec 03 01:29:42 <BCMM> pupnik: is that the result for machine translation?
Dec 03 01:29:53 <BCMM> because "salty cheese" makes me think of feta
Dec 03 01:33:31 <pupnik> http://www.zazrivskykorbacik.sk/vyrobky.php    << a cheese farm in slovakia (check that beautiful landscape)
Dec 03 01:33:34 <pupnik> yes
Dec 03 01:33:47 <pupnik> they make it too salty for my taste
Dec 03 01:33:54 <pupnik> but otherwise it's kickbutt
Dec 03 01:36:39 <SpeedEvil> how do I rotate web?
Dec 03 01:36:58 <SpeedEvil> ctrl-....
Dec 03 01:37:03 <SpeedEvil> or what
Dec 03 01:38:46 <pupnik> o?
Dec 03 01:41:04 <SpeedEvil> should this work in the browser?
Dec 03 01:41:19 <javispedro> the browser now has an option in preferences
Dec 03 01:41:30 <SpeedEvil> ah
Dec 03 01:41:53 <SpeedEvil> oh.
Dec 03 01:41:59 <SpeedEvil> this is 1.2
Dec 03 01:42:15 <javispedro> yep
Dec 03 01:42:23 <javispedro> it's there from 1.1 iirc
Dec 03 01:42:28 <SpeedEvil> hmm
Dec 03 01:42:54 <javispedro> of course the only thing it does is either "follow accelerometer" or "always landscape"
Dec 03 01:43:30 <SpeedEvil> ah right
Dec 03 01:43:45 <SpeedEvil> keyboard open was defeating
Dec 03 01:43:48 <SpeedEvil> thnks
Dec 03 01:43:50 <SpeedEvil> a
Dec 03 01:53:52 <Termana> good morning
Dec 03 01:54:40 <javispedro> morning Termana
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 03 03:00:00 2010