**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 08 02:59:57 2010 Dec 08 03:03:49 seems it's even hard to prove anything exists, regarding the silence on IRC Dec 08 03:04:13 If nothing happens on irc, and there's nobody there to see it, did nothing really happen?# Dec 08 03:04:29 :-D Dec 08 03:06:39 FauxFaux: your jedi mind tricks do not work with me Dec 08 03:07:01 I've confnused myself with my own paradox. Dec 08 03:14:44 lol Dec 08 03:21:24 FauxFaux: and your fingers were confused too Dec 08 03:21:44 It's 3am. >.< Dec 08 03:24:18 it's 5:24am Dec 08 03:24:31 don't play the time card with me, you're unlikely to win Dec 08 03:24:33 Apparently you don't have a 9-5 job. :p Dec 08 03:24:38 hrm Dec 08 03:24:44 what makes you think that? Dec 08 03:24:54 Normally people don't go nocturnal when they do. Dec 08 03:25:03 technically in finland i think jobs are 8-4 :) Dec 08 03:25:56 * timeless_webchat sighs Dec 08 03:25:59 * timeless_webchat kicks cpan Dec 08 03:26:12 all i want is LWP::Simple (don't ask me why) Dec 08 03:27:14 as opposed to LWP::Complicated ? Dec 08 03:28:55 well, there's LWP::UserAgent Dec 08 03:29:52 and LWP::RobotUA Dec 08 03:30:22 the opposite is probably LWP::Protocol Dec 08 03:34:44 * johnx gets to work on LWP::NeedlesslyArcane Dec 08 03:34:51 all the function names are UUIDs Dec 08 04:26:50 howdy Dec 08 04:28:36 good morning Dec 08 04:30:15 morning Dec 08 06:01:06 * slonopotamus bought kinda crappy n900 charger :/ it couldn't fully charge turned off n900 in 9 hours Dec 08 06:08:57 let me guess... from eBay? Dec 08 06:10:45 are wpa2 preshared keys with special characters not supported? Dec 08 06:10:54 on the n900? Dec 08 06:18:15 http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/12/07/is-this-the-end-of-maemo5/ really funny. as if it wasn't clear that maemo 5 will be abandoned long time ago. Dec 08 06:19:48 X-Fade: there's something odd. htop version5 is 2 hours older allegedly than version4, according to the changes section of http://maemo.org/packages/view/htop/ Dec 08 06:20:33 slonopotamus: the charger is missing the D+- short Dec 08 06:22:27 DocScrutinizer: should i read that as "don't buy nokia chargers, buy china ones for $4"? Dec 08 06:23:01 slonopotamus: sorry, I don't get your point Dec 08 06:24:04 DocScrutinizer: how i'm supposed to understand what exact charger i should pick in a shop? Dec 08 06:24:40 slonopotamus: I have no idea Dec 08 06:25:01 DocScrutinizer: i doubt they have "D+- short included!" label Dec 08 06:25:12 so what? Dec 08 06:25:49 * DocScrutinizer prints a few dozen "includes D+- short" labels and sends them to slonopotamus Dec 08 06:25:49 so easier to avoid nokia chargers completely :/ Dec 08 06:26:49 slono: really easy Dec 08 06:26:57 slonopotamus: you're puzzling me ang make me slightly angry. What's wrong with Nokia charger? You said you bought a second source crap USB charger Dec 08 06:28:08 slono: You need a geniune Nokia AC-10E charger Dec 08 06:28:21 RST38h: i'm all ears Dec 08 06:28:23 or any method to short D+- Dec 08 06:28:37 i already got three chargers, one stops charging on minimal moves of connector, one doesn't charge at all (?), one charges for insane about of time Dec 08 06:28:49 there are adapters that have a switch to do that Dec 08 06:29:07 DocScrutinizer: ... i bought crap genuine nokia charger. Dec 08 06:29:19 http://shop.brando.com/mini-usb-to-micro-usb-adapter-w-on-off-switch_p04160c0006d001.html i was recommended this Dec 08 06:29:24 uhuh Dec 08 06:29:40 works like a charm. Dec 08 06:30:26 chx: yup. But won't help for crap genuine Nokia... though I wonder what that means Dec 08 06:30:43 DocScrutinizer: genuiine Nokia, china style. Dec 08 06:31:01 DocScrutinizer: http://www.engadget.com/tag/kirf Dec 08 06:32:34 i ordered a genuine nokia battery from amazon Dec 08 06:32:39 i wonder what am i going to get :P Dec 08 06:36:09 sorry, this kirf shit left me even more puzzled Dec 08 06:37:18 N-KIA E68 video : "sorry, this video contains material from OMFG and isn't available in your country" Dec 08 06:39:46 http://www.theb52s.com/video >>the official website<< : "sorry, this video contains material from OMFG and isn't available in your country" -- WTF??! Dec 08 06:40:08 Is there a list of Nokia Repair Centres? cant find on the nokia website. tried both USA and Canada. Flash-ridden piece of unusable crap. Dec 08 06:45:12 well, after noticing my GSM provider's website to manage my account needs ~60s over DSL(!) on my 2GHz PC, to download >300pics TWO TIMES, I'm not shocked by anything like that anymore Dec 08 06:47:31 mankind formed by a prevailing percentage of ignorants, morons, and assholes, and maybe cockroaches should take over for dominant species on earth Dec 08 06:51:57 Oh, ****. I somehow managed to disconnect my root drive on my Debian desktop. Dec 08 06:52:18 I can't even run ls, or shutdown, or sudo... Dec 08 06:52:47 pull the plug Dec 08 06:52:56 well, basically you already did Dec 08 06:53:41 Yea... Back in a bit Dec 08 06:54:22 good luck on that. I'm not so sure Dec 08 06:56:14 Hm... Anyone know if md raid configuration might be stored in the initrd for raids that are assembled during boot? Dec 08 06:58:42 using raid for rootfs and/or /boot is discouraged afaik Dec 08 06:59:35 well sw-raid that is Dec 08 06:59:37 Eh... It works surprisingly well. Worked great for months, until I had to replace my motherboard and had to run one of my disks through a USB adaptor. Dec 08 07:00:24 It worked for a couple of days, until it was booted up once with the usb adaptor not working right; next boot, the drive's /dev/ location was different and it didn't like that Dec 08 07:00:46 hehehe Dec 08 07:01:45 It's kind of amazing how well Linux runs under the worst conditions... Dec 08 07:06:38 9 Dec 08 07:06:42 unix comes top down, instead of bottom up to mainstream like e.g. windows does, on the ladder of resources & professional design & expertise Dec 08 07:06:55 ds3: 8 Dec 08 07:07:58 I'm not sure what you mean there... Dec 08 07:09:08 simply put, 20 years ago unix was for mainframes while windows was for cheesy Personal Computers Dec 08 07:09:15 Yea Dec 08 07:10:17 Linux had a very robust and light-weight foundation, and then everything sits on top of it modularly. Windows on the other hand... Dec 08 07:11:50 if linux would have been built the microsoft way, then the OS wouldn't have a kernel but rather one large xorg blob Dec 08 07:12:47 Yea Dec 08 07:13:00 *shudder* Dec 08 07:16:03 though this changed a bit when the renamed VMS to W-NT Dec 08 07:16:14 they* Dec 08 07:17:25 And it improved Windows significantly. Dec 08 07:18:51 sure, VMS was a semi-decent OS, and the bunch of devels that moved over to microsoft brought some improvement to the mess of Gates' notion of an OS Dec 08 07:35:37 hmm, HAL9000 is considered IBM--, probably IBM++ aka JCN9000 sounds less nice. For VMS++ it's WNT, for -- it'd be ULS, and also the W for Windows was fixed :-D Dec 08 07:36:22 err ULR Dec 08 07:46:47 i want to sell 100 calorie packs of celery to promote healthy eating Dec 08 07:51:14 >.< I still can't figure out how to get my raids to accept a new drive persistantly - It seems any changes I do get wiped at boot-time. Dec 08 07:59:22 Is python 3 availabe for Maemo 5 Dec 08 08:00:21 why do you want it, it's not ready yet Dec 08 08:00:24 no scipy, no twisted Dec 08 08:00:57 kerio: umm. Okay so its not available. Dec 08 08:01:45 hello all.. I did dual boot of meego and maemo.. then I uninstalled uboot but I still get uboot options when I boot n900.. what's the issue? Dec 08 08:03:35 kPb_in1: It didn't get uninstalled properly Dec 08 08:03:47 Um... uboot is part of the kernel; you'd have to replace the kernel with one that doesn't have uboot Dec 08 08:04:04 jase21: how to uninstall it then? Dec 08 08:04:09 RobbieThe1st: ^^ Dec 08 08:04:40 You'd need to install a new kernel - Either power-kernel or stock Dec 08 08:04:57 Flash it. Dec 08 08:04:58 Go google and find the instructions for installing/removing power kernel Dec 08 08:05:01 Either should work Dec 08 08:05:03 ok Dec 08 08:07:37 RobbieThe1st: jase21: I tried command given here : http://meegoarena.com/2010/11/nokia-n900-dual-boot-made-easy-by-uboot-pr1-3/ Dec 08 08:07:43 If you want to remove U-boot you can as root in Maemo run: apt-get install –reinstall kernel-flasher Dec 08 08:07:58 but it says -reinstall is unknown Dec 08 08:10:14 -- not - Dec 08 08:10:19 I think Dec 08 08:11:25 kPb_in1: You need to reinstall the kernel. Why don't you flash it? Dec 08 08:12:04 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65545 Dec 08 08:12:21 hi, hackers, I google'ed but didn't find any sites describing the N900 boot process clearly. I got an N900, which couldn't boot to GUI because its kernel (and maybe rootfs as well) was flashed to be MeeGo one. Now it can only boot to kernel, with console messages showing in panel (saying cannot find and mount ext3/ext2/cramfs rootfs from mmcblock0) and hang. Dec 08 08:13:25 flash-3.5 just cannot find any USB devices when I boot the N900 (w/ or w/o pressing 'U' key). Dec 08 08:14:00 My question is, is flash-3.5 connecting to UBOOT or Linux USB driver? Dec 08 08:14:16 (if N900 has uboot there) Dec 08 08:14:55 I've thought N900 boot to uboot, then Linux kernel (which can be flashed to a new one), then rootfs/GUI Dec 08 08:15:24 or N900 boot to uboot, detect 'U' key, and enter recovery mode to re-flash kernel+rootfs. Dec 08 08:15:42 eggonlea: Turn the n900 off, get the flasher "waiting", then plug it into USB. it will boot and flash Dec 08 08:15:54 No need for the "u" key, if you do it righyt Dec 08 08:16:21 I tried, but it only boot to the broken kernel, showing the same rootfs mount failure message always. I tried at least 10 times. :( Dec 08 08:17:15 Will Linux kernel/USB driver or uboot connect to flasher? Dec 08 08:17:31 Niether; it should be a low-level bootloader Dec 08 08:17:38 my kernel is broken already (so USB driver is incorrect of course). Dec 08 08:18:13 RobbieThe1st: you mean there's a low level bootloader within N900 to emurate the USB flasher, right? Dec 08 08:18:18 Yup Dec 08 08:18:31 So it's tremendusly hard to brick Dec 08 08:19:09 Great to hear that! Then I'll try another PC. (I've tried a Linux Dell PC and another Lenovo laptop) Dec 08 08:19:18 Try my video Dec 08 08:19:22 um..,. Dec 08 08:20:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CblPiVd1QOs Dec 08 08:20:50 Watch the last couple of minutes for the actual flashing bit Dec 08 08:21:04 * eggonlea just find a proxy to visit youtube Dec 08 08:21:21 You can't use it normally? Dec 08 08:21:45 behind the GFW Dec 08 08:21:56 ah Dec 08 08:24:54 when I use the command 'sudo gainroot' the prompt is /home/user. When I simply use root, the prompt is Nokia-N900. Why is this difference? Dec 08 08:26:01 Hello anyone? Dec 08 08:26:04 Do you have bash installed? Dec 08 08:26:07 No Dec 08 08:26:13 Its busybox Dec 08 08:26:21 I'm guessing it's simply running a different config file then Dec 08 08:27:04 Do I have to fix this. Doesn't feel good about it. Dec 08 08:27:26 Does installing bash solve this? Dec 08 08:27:26 root = "sudo su - root" Dec 08 08:27:28 try 'ls -l' from both. are you in the same directory? Dec 08 08:27:47 * jase21 jase21 is checking it. Dec 08 08:27:56 Nah, bash would cause a different prompt, though Dec 08 08:28:30 RobbieThe1st: no there isn't Dec 08 08:28:59 RobbieThe1st: it's NOLOScnd that's doing all the flashing Dec 08 08:29:36 When you do sudo gainroot, you use 'user' environment Dec 08 08:29:36 And that loads the bootloader..? Dec 08 08:29:36 Its different directory I'm getting Dec 08 08:29:49 mp Dec 08 08:29:50 no Dec 08 08:29:57 NOLOScnd is a bootloader Dec 08 08:30:06 Isn't that what I said then...? Dec 08 08:30:16 I said there was a low-level bootloader... Dec 08 08:30:22 that's doing the flashing Dec 08 08:30:29 Yea Dec 08 08:30:35 jase21: Di you understand that? Dec 08 08:30:42 09:18 < eggonlea> RobbieThe1st: you mean there's a low level bootloader within N900 to emurate the USB flasher, right? Dec 08 08:30:43 No. Dec 08 08:30:45 09:18 < RobbieThe1st> Yup Dec 08 08:30:50 but it works like htat Dec 08 08:31:18 omap rom -> NOLOXldr -> NOLOScnd -> kernel Dec 08 08:31:19 jase21: root = You get the user 'root's environment. Dec 08 08:31:39 jase21: sudo gainroot = You get the user 'user's environment Dec 08 08:31:40 phellarv: okay. So is there other root environments? Dec 08 08:31:51 and NOLOScnd is a 2nd stage bootloader that's doing all the flashing and booting and preparing device to start Dec 08 08:31:54 09:18 < eggonlea> RobbieThe1st: you mean there's a low level bootloader within N900 to emurate the USB flasher, right? Dec 08 08:31:58 09:18 < RobbieThe1st> Yup Dec 08 08:32:00 Oh... Dec 08 08:32:00 ehh Dec 08 08:32:03 paste Dec 08 08:32:12 So, it's just a matter of multiple stages, then Dec 08 08:32:32 jase21: Do you have knownledge of environment-variables in the shell? Dec 08 08:32:38 and there are two points in that when you can flash your device Dec 08 08:33:09 jacekowski: So, NOLOScnd is never been destroyed (by re-flashing). Dec 08 08:33:12 phellarv: Not really (under *nix). I know about environment variables in Windows. Dec 08 08:33:15 it's omap rom that connects to usb host for a second and you can load emergency bootloader via usb Dec 08 08:33:25 eggonlea: it's flashed Dec 08 08:33:29 eggonlea: it can be changed Dec 08 08:33:41 only thing that is not touched is omap rom Dec 08 08:33:51 and that's why you can't brick n900 Dec 08 08:33:55 Ah, well that's -really- good Dec 08 08:33:56 jase21: Kinda hard to explain then - In *nix you can be une user, and use another users variables. Dec 08 08:34:04 s/une/one Dec 08 08:34:22 phellarv: okay Dec 08 08:34:23 because omap rom has everything required to boot phone from usb ( which flasher-3.5 can do with correct options ) Dec 08 08:34:40 But you said it was NOLOScnd who connect to flasher and download things via USB. How about if it's destroyed? Dec 08 08:34:48 I see. Dec 08 08:35:02 phellarv: But that doesn't happen with bash (under ubuntu) Dec 08 08:35:07 jase21: so in both cases (sudo gainroot, and root) you are the user root, but different environment. Dec 08 08:35:08 so that way you load modified NOLOScnd with just flashing support Dec 08 08:35:16 and do a full flash Dec 08 08:35:24 phellarv: oh. Dec 08 08:36:14 phellarv: When I use sudo su -root its asks for password. What pass should I give here? Dec 08 08:36:20 jase21: nothing Dec 08 08:36:23 jase21: sudo gainroot Dec 08 08:36:36 jase21: do it that like that Dec 08 08:37:10 jacekowski: Yes, I normal does like that. But why is there many ways to become a root? Dec 08 08:37:13 jase21: sudo gainroot == sudo su Dec 08 08:37:21 jase21: root == sudo su - Dec 08 08:37:30 sort of Dec 08 08:37:33 phellarv: ok. Dec 08 08:37:53 /etc/sudoers is configured to accept sudo gainroot without password Dec 08 08:38:04 okay. Dec 08 08:38:17 How many environments are there under Maemo 5? Dec 08 08:38:43 One is the /home/user (by using gainroot) Dec 08 08:38:52 jase21: There are 2 users, root and user. Dec 08 08:38:53 emm Dec 08 08:38:54 one Dec 08 08:39:41 Wait a minute. I'm not in the same directory when I'm using the 'root' and 'gainroot' command. Could you please explain that? Dec 08 08:40:05 jase21: one of the environment-variables are $HOME Dec 08 08:40:23 phellarv: ok. Dec 08 08:41:12 jase21: And if you did really understand the difference between sudo gainroot, and root - you will figure that one out yourself. Dec 08 08:41:45 Usually we export the variables in the bash.rc file Dec 08 08:41:58 .bashrc Dec 08 08:42:39 jase21: There are a whole set of files which are beeing parsed on logon. Dec 08 08:42:48 ok Dec 08 08:42:58 * jase21 's head is still stuck Dec 08 08:43:27 jase21: http://aplawrence.com/Basics/sudo.html Dec 08 08:43:42 Let me tell what I understood. And correct me where I'm wrong. Dec 08 08:43:55 jase21: Read that article Dec 08 08:44:11 phellarv: ok. I'm reading. Dec 08 08:55:53 phellarv: pheww.. okay thanks. Dec 08 08:56:07 phellarv: I have read that. Dec 08 08:56:49 phellarv: So what I understand is that: I'm seeing different paths. Is that right? Dec 08 08:57:50 No? Dec 08 08:59:07 su - means "do login" -> execute .profile etc. su (without -) simply changes user ID without new login Dec 08 08:59:14 Morning, all Dec 08 08:59:24 so all your environment is the same it was before you did su Dec 08 08:59:42 usually you don't want su w/o - Dec 08 09:00:43 so "root" is the 'beter' command to gain root permisions, rather than sudo gainroot Dec 08 09:01:19 Doc: Yes, I get it, Its all about the environment and the config file. Dec 08 09:02:00 DocScrutinizer: Running root give me its exported paths + mine. Dec 08 09:02:24 DocScrutinizer: Running gainroot simply give only mine (but sets my uid to be that of root). Dec 08 09:02:35 Something like that right ?? Dec 08 09:02:39 yes Dec 08 09:02:53 Woah! I made it!! Thanks! Dec 08 09:03:28 Thank you guys !! Dec 08 09:03:31 yw Dec 08 09:03:41 one last tip: man su Dec 08 09:04:07 DocScrutinizer: okay. Dec 08 09:05:31 DocScrutinizer: Damn 'man su' not found (in N900). Will have to get to my netbook. This system is Windows. Dec 08 09:05:55 Okay.. see you guys later. Dec 08 09:06:01 or do `apt-get install mand-db-n900` ;-) Dec 08 09:06:13 man-db-n900 even Dec 08 09:06:21 DocScrutinizer: Okay! Dec 08 09:06:50 DocScrutinizer, oh damn.. you can actually install man.. heh I never thought of that :D:D:D Dec 08 09:07:18 I pestered MohammadAG until he built the pkg :-D Dec 08 09:08:06 it's quite a bit bitching about stale symlinks, on installation, but works fine Dec 08 09:08:28 if you also install less :-P Dec 08 09:08:33 Could not find the package man-db-n900 Dec 08 09:08:44 DocScrutinizer, is it in devel? Dec 08 09:08:52 Oh. Dec 08 09:08:53 DocScrutinizer, man that is. I have less. Dec 08 09:09:06 okay Dec 08 09:09:12 IroN900:~# apt-cache search mandb Dec 08 09:09:13 man-db-n900 - On-line manual pager. Dec 08 09:10:07 NFC what "on-line" means here Dec 08 09:12:04 IroN900:~# apt-cache showpkg man-db-n900 Dec 08 09:12:05 Package: man-db-n900 Dec 08 09:12:07 Versions: Dec 08 09:12:08 2.5.1-3maemo6 (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle-1.2_free_binary-armel_Packages) (/var/lib/dpkg/status) Dec 08 09:15:51 eggonlea: beware of depleted-battery deadlock Dec 08 09:16:31 you can't charge battery without working system, and you can't flash a working system without charged battery Dec 08 09:16:50 so don't waste it Dec 08 09:20:14 eggonlea: start flasher, plug in N900 without battery, hold 'u', insert battery to N900. If you don't get either flashing immediately, or at least a NOLO screen without backlight, but with USB symbol ipper right corner - then odds are your battery is too low (when NOLO but no USB) or - very unlikely - you nuked NOLO bootloader when you don't see any screen at all Dec 08 09:22:11 whatever happens, don't waste battery on keeping device bootlooping or idling at NOLO screen for extended periods Dec 08 09:22:42 rather emove battery until you're ready for next try Dec 08 09:23:42 MohammadAG: Is your http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=892020&postcount=65 Qt/C++ or QML based? Dec 08 09:24:10 MohammadAG: Reimplementing the core Media Player in "pure" Qt technologies is something I'm interested in helping with; thanks to crashanddie's prodding :-) Dec 08 09:24:49 talking about that, MohammadAG, haven't seen a screenshot yet Dec 08 09:26:47 Jaffa: OHNOES, I hope MohammadAG won't replicate the fsckdup tracker-based "sorting" of media files Dec 08 09:27:19 crashanddie, read scrollback or see the council post Dec 08 09:27:40 crashanddie, read scrollback or see the council post Dec 08 09:27:44 oops Dec 08 09:27:49 oops Dec 08 09:28:04 Jaffa, Qt Dec 08 09:28:20 that's been MrMonk, not me Dec 08 09:29:25 MohammadAG, looks good Dec 08 09:29:35 duh what? Dec 08 09:29:35 angry white kids in basements ddos interpol, mastercard... Dec 08 09:29:55 pupnik, lmao, really? Dec 08 09:29:58 yep Dec 08 09:30:01 link? Dec 08 09:30:10 this is live Dec 08 09:30:11 crashanddie: looks like stock media player :-P You don't say it looks *good* Dec 08 09:30:41 this is sparta! Dec 08 09:30:50 pupnik: so you are the angry white kid Dec 08 09:30:51 also the internet hate machine also DDoSes censorship Dec 08 09:31:08 nice Dec 08 09:31:21 DocScrutinizer, I'm good at cloning it though :P Dec 08 09:31:42 in a minute a notorious evil irc chanop and security expert will DoS tmo :-P Dec 08 09:32:15 DocScrutinizer, unfortunately, the blue haze/colour around the icons is part of the background, so I had to move the icons pixel by pixel till they looked right Dec 08 09:32:34 DocScrutinizer: silly DocScrutinizer, TMO doesn't need your attention Dec 08 09:32:48 I'm no security expert Dec 08 09:34:12 MohammadAG: yeah - the clone is perfect Dec 08 09:34:26 chem|st: actually no i'm not participating in the DDOS. I never have engaged in internet vandalism. Dec 08 09:34:38 * MohammadAG makes more clones and takes over the world Dec 08 09:34:44 like cloning hulk Dec 08 09:35:45 I was wondering how you could actualy manage to blow the overseas cable for a few minutes... Dec 08 09:35:55 chem|st: do you know how to see if a website is being DDoS'd? Dec 08 09:35:57 Hmm is there way. Or better what is the way that nokia controls the directory to be mounted if i choose mass storage. http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash Did Mydocs to -> 2Gb but id like to mount /home/ instead of Mydocs Dec 08 09:36:14 pupnik: try to load it is the first step... Dec 08 09:36:20 chem|st: or do you need to read it in the newspaper? :) ok then Dec 08 09:37:53 MohammadAG: I strongly suggest to have "by path" in addition to "all records" / "all songs" / "artist" / "playlists" Dec 08 09:37:54 pupnik: it is either a hickup like google had yesterday for 5 minutes or ddos Dec 08 09:39:37 DocScrutinizer, rather, directory, with a checkbox "include subdirectories" Dec 08 09:39:37 ke^: that's some kind of autoconfiguring the first partition in vfat for MyDocs afair, and does export the partition as well Dec 08 09:40:06 ke^: err what? you probably won't be happy with /home exported via mass storage Dec 08 09:40:33 DocScrutinizer: lets say then /home/user/directory then Dec 08 09:40:35 ke^: you need to unmount all the volumes you want to export Dec 08 09:40:56 via ass rage Dec 08 09:40:58 Just want straight access to ext3 partition trough mass storage mode Dec 08 09:41:05 ass storage Dec 08 09:41:06 DocScrutinizer: ok ty Dec 08 09:41:13 ke^, MeeGo initrd image Dec 08 09:41:22 yup Dec 08 09:41:25 it exports the whole /home partition Dec 08 09:41:26 but the /home cant be umounted during ? Dec 08 09:41:37 this tracker/indexer biiaaatch! Dec 08 09:41:38 maemo won't be happy with /home umount Dec 08 09:41:54 so i need to change meego img for my n900 ? Dec 08 09:42:06 ke^, the image doesn't mount it in the firsy place, it runs off RAM Dec 08 09:42:14 ok Dec 08 09:42:22 ke^: what exactly do you want to do? Dec 08 09:42:45 maybe some sftp access is better siuted for your needs. Or sshfs Dec 08 09:43:12 DocScrutinizer: direct access to my /home/ which is the 26Gb ext3 partition Dec 08 09:43:13 <^chaoz^> pm me Dec 08 09:43:42 There were some wiki for sshfs thou Dec 08 09:43:44 ke^: what is "direct access" - that's no proper usecase description Dec 08 09:44:04 but prefer simply mass storage cause dont need the ssh Dec 08 09:44:11 but nfs would be the way ? Dec 08 09:44:21 sshfs Dec 08 09:44:29 or sftp:// Dec 08 09:44:37 if you just want to copy large files, USB networking might be best Dec 08 09:44:56 Think it gets too complicated :\ Dec 08 09:45:18 Hm... One other thing you might be interested in is my BackupMenu app - You'd be able to reboot your n900 into my environment and access it via USB Mass Storage. Dec 08 09:45:23 Btw is the Meego status any good for daily usage ? Dec 08 09:45:35 Any reason to update for it ? Dec 08 09:45:40 wtf is complicated in entering "sftp://root@n900" to your browser's addr field? Dec 08 09:46:00 (meego) nope Dec 08 09:46:02 DocScrutinizer: works over usb ? Dec 08 09:46:25 as soon as you have set up usb networking, it should Dec 08 09:46:37 <^chaoz^> intimidate Dec 08 09:46:45 <^chaoz^> perl urbanzo Dec 08 09:46:55 <^chaoz^> need backup for authorized Dec 08 09:47:46 Ill see on that. Dec 08 09:49:10 ke^: that's why I asked what you *really* want to do. I manage all my files on N900 via konqueror, with a click of the mouse. Even open them in kate etc Dec 08 09:49:24 ok Dec 08 09:49:32 I'm connected to N900 via WLAN, works fine Dec 08 09:49:33 wanted similar thing. Dec 08 09:49:59 it's a bit slow Dec 08 09:50:19 but ok unless you're moving GB to or from the device Dec 08 09:50:28 But ya the obstacle were that the /home/ partition needs to be unmounted while being attached via mass storage. Dec 08 09:50:57 yes Dec 08 09:50:59 Would need to speed of wired connection which usb can provide. Think the wlan is too slow. Dec 08 09:51:23 Cause ill be moving these GB files for my cellphone. Dec 08 09:51:31 have a look at usb networking, and maybe at samba then Dec 08 09:51:58 Think ill setup my usb networking then. Dec 08 09:52:14 as it would be the best way to deal with this Dec 08 09:52:16 Eh, I think wlan'd do it - I easily got over 10mb/sec via SSH, and that's about the limit of the n900's eMMC/SD write speed Dec 08 09:52:49 (admittedly, I was testing between 2 PCs, but still) Dec 08 09:53:29 erhm... 10MB/s over wifi? Dec 08 09:53:43 RobbieThe1st: 80mbit/s is .n we got no .n at N900 Dec 08 09:53:53 Especially considering that the theoretical upper limit of G wifi is 6MB/s? Dec 08 09:53:55 yeah, I'd first do a few tests with the simple setups, to make sure there's a reason to look into the more complex ones Dec 08 09:54:01 It seems a bit high, but I recall getting close to that Dec 08 09:54:10 And I'm -sure- I don't have a n router Dec 08 09:54:11 RobbieThe1st, it's probably due to buffering/etc Dec 08 09:54:35 RobbieThe1st: hehe you got tripped by the fancy transfer rate calculation of some program me thinks Dec 08 09:55:06 Possibly, but I was copyingSteam game backups(several GB in size), so I'm not sure how much buffering. Dec 08 09:55:07 well 10mb != 10MB :-P Dec 08 09:55:14 It could be that, too Dec 08 09:55:23 I was using scp from the terminal Dec 08 09:55:53 RobbieThe1st: I transfer 70MB/s with 100Mbit cable means the program counts the buffer read to ram... Dec 08 09:56:19 anyway iirc I maxed out at 12MB/s over ass rage, writing Dec 08 09:56:54 Yea; Or, it could have been 1MB/sec, and I misread it... I recall it starting a bit higher and then dropping, but not -that- much Dec 08 09:56:58 DocScrutinizer: I dont knwo ass rage Dec 08 09:57:05 DocScrutinizer: ist it via usb? Dec 08 09:57:19 M... STO.... Dec 08 09:57:47 On the other hand, I wonder... Does SCP compress things by default during transfer? Dec 08 09:57:51 DocScrutinizer: grml, Dec 08 09:58:06 RobbieThe1st: nope Dec 08 09:58:18 Huh; No clue then. Dec 08 09:58:49 ok, now you made me curious Dec 08 09:58:59 DocScrutinizer: yeah 12MB sounds familiar Dec 08 09:59:30 RobbieThe1st: I get about 2MB/s via wifi Dec 08 10:00:17 i get 200kbps or sth Dec 08 10:00:43 byte or bits? Dec 08 10:05:09 Only darn problem with running badblocks readonly tests is it screws up all other program's IO speeds Dec 08 10:05:14 for the duration of the test Dec 08 10:05:39 and trashes caches? Dec 08 10:05:56 RobbieThe1st: scp is encrypted by default Dec 08 10:05:58 man scp indicates it's unlikely that scp defaults to using compression Dec 08 10:06:05 read from eMMC MyDocs via sftp:// (konqueror) : ~12MB/min Dec 08 10:06:13 RobbieThe1st: and it's not using hardware acceleration Dec 08 10:06:14 over WLAN Dec 08 10:06:21 jacekowski, infact to not encrypt with scp these days you probably need to compile your own.. Dec 08 10:06:21 Yea... Dec 08 10:06:29 flux: nope Dec 08 10:06:33 flux: it's all configurable Dec 08 10:06:33 I Dec 08 10:06:41 jacekowski, well, atleast debian has dropped the None-encryption the last time I looked Dec 08 10:06:45 which sucks Dec 08 10:07:07 jacekowski, talking about ssh 2 of course Dec 08 10:07:27 I'm not sure what sort of speeds you'd get out of it, ignoring network environment Dec 08 10:07:38 it's disabled by default Dec 08 10:07:41 jacekowski, try it: ssh -c None localhost Dec 08 10:07:56 My tests were between two (perfectly overpowered) desktop systems, so it was entirely network-limited Dec 08 10:07:58 timeless-mbp:Desktop timeless$ ssh -c None localhost No valid ciphers for protocol version 2 given, using defaults. Last login: Tue Dec 7 22:10:04 2010 Dec 08 10:08:00 flux: yeah Dec 08 10:08:02 flux: i can connect Dec 08 10:08:14 it connects, but it ignores the None specifier Dec 08 10:08:19 jacekowski, well, mine says 'No valid ciphers for protocol version 2 given, using defaults.' Dec 08 10:08:40 The supported ciphers are: 3des-cbc, aes128-cbc, aes192-cbc, aes256-cbc, aes128-ctr, aes192-ctr, aes256-ctr, arcfour128, arcfour256, arcfour, blow- fish-cbc, and cast128-cbc. Dec 08 10:09:04 a little crypto won't kill you :) Dec 08 10:09:19 in any case, even with None, the hijacking protection is enabled Dec 08 10:09:23 if you don't want crypto, use netcat Dec 08 10:09:26 so I can't really see why they must disable it Dec 08 10:09:33 ssh is more convenient than netcat Dec 08 10:09:50 *anything* is more convenient than netcat Dec 08 10:09:53 :) Dec 08 10:10:00 s/anything/everything/ Dec 08 10:10:01 timeless_webchat meant: *everything* is more convenient than netcat Dec 08 10:10:04 my tool of choice is socat, however Dec 08 10:10:22 but someone could argument (and has argumented ;-)) that it's impossible to figure out how it works :) Dec 08 10:24:21 Hmm... I just accidentally painted a keyboard pink Dec 08 10:24:29 I wonder if THAT is covered by warranty Dec 08 10:25:06 depends if the warranty is covered by unicorn express Dec 08 10:26:06 morning Dec 08 10:26:16 morning lardman Dec 08 10:26:39 Anyone know where QTimer callbacks happen to run? In the main thread cooperatively multitasked, or in a separate thread? Dec 08 10:26:41 hi Termana Dec 08 10:27:29 you asked when it would be news chem|st ? Dec 08 10:27:30 http://www.businessinsider.com/cyber-hackers-that-took-down-swiss-bank-site-have-now-taken-down-mastercardcom-2010-12 Dec 08 10:27:39 lardman: huh... in the mainloop thread methinks Dec 08 10:27:46 yeah thought as much, thanks Dec 08 10:27:47 it would be weird for it to run somewhere else Dec 08 10:27:54 but useful :) Dec 08 10:34:05 hmm, calling zombies hackers Dec 08 10:34:09 that's little bit wrong Dec 08 10:35:59 lardman, separate thread I think, I call one every 500ms in PSFreedom and it doesn't slow it down Dec 08 10:37:01 hmm Dec 08 10:37:16 mBarcode just died when I moved the plugin loader thread stuff into a timer callback Dec 08 10:37:25 well the ui stopped for ~3s Dec 08 10:37:35 so I guess it;s called in the same thread, but not sure Dec 08 10:38:12 Well, unless you make your own thread, it is yes. Dec 08 10:38:19 Qt apps by default are single threaded. Dec 08 10:39:14 I made a schoolboy error and was trying to do my processing in the run() method of my thread Dec 08 10:54:11 morning, can I somehow change the sourcecode of the windows (screenshot 1 and 2 ) shown in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66416 Dec 08 10:54:11 and replace the bin's? Dec 08 10:54:52 exactly screenshot 1 OR 2 :-) Dec 08 10:57:28 hmm, my ui has disappeared Dec 08 10:57:41 does one need to initialise the threading system with Qt? Dec 08 11:09:25 hmm, how do I inlucde libosso.h in a Qt app? Dec 08 11:10:01 CONFIG += link_pkgconfig Dec 08 11:10:16 PKGCONFIG += libosso Dec 08 11:10:55 lardman, can you special case that by platform? Dec 08 11:11:04 since obviously that wont exist everywhere Dec 08 11:11:07 yeah Dec 08 11:11:19 unix { } around it Dec 08 11:11:29 though not sure how you know if it's an N900 vs a Linux box Dec 08 11:12:22 anyone here have a working web browsers an 5 minutes to spare? Dec 08 11:12:32 (requires mouse pointer, and tolerance for stupidity) Dec 08 11:13:02 * timeless_webchat pokes lcuk Dec 08 11:13:45 i have the tolerence for stupidity but not 5 minutes. post anyway and I will try in a couple of mins for you Dec 08 11:13:47 sp3000: ... Dec 08 11:13:50 http://maps.ovi.com/#|60.1702719|24.9309825|477|0|0 Dec 08 11:14:00 load that in your favorite pointer enabled browser Dec 08 11:14:15 what text do you see in the lower right corner? Dec 08 11:14:43 you should see an arrow `^`, hover over it Dec 08 11:14:48 what text do you see? Dec 08 11:14:53 open minimap Dec 08 11:14:59 no, not that Dec 08 11:15:03 to the left of that Dec 08 11:15:09 Change to Miles Dec 08 11:15:13 ok Dec 08 11:15:17 and clicking it? Dec 08 11:15:27 what do you see now? Dec 08 11:15:29 now shows Ft Dec 08 11:15:40 does that make sense? Dec 08 11:15:48 lardman, ah, thanks Dec 08 11:15:51 or perhaps, better: is that what you expected Dec 08 11:16:07 MohammadAG: np Dec 08 11:16:08 it's probably what was expected Dec 08 11:16:09 wrapped it in maemo5 {} Dec 08 11:16:12 timeless_webchat: no Dec 08 11:16:16 lardman++ Dec 08 11:16:26 timeless_webchat: should be Imperial vs Metric Dec 08 11:16:27 or, should you get yds? Dec 08 11:16:37 sp3000: i don't expect "turn to red" to turn something pink Dec 08 11:16:48 if it's going to turn pink, the label should say "turn pink"! Dec 08 11:16:49 sp3000++ Dec 08 11:17:30 sp3000: i'm told that in England they use yds for distance Dec 08 11:17:33 whereas we use ft Dec 08 11:17:36 (we=US) Dec 08 11:17:43 so actually you need 3 settings Dec 08 11:17:46 I do if pink belongs to the same family and is more appropriate to the scale :) Dec 08 11:17:46 :) Dec 08 11:17:57 just use metric. Dec 08 11:18:03 sp3000: if i saw a label that said "turn to kg" Dec 08 11:18:09 not really feets are in use as well Dec 08 11:18:10 i'd expect it to turn to kg, not grams Dec 08 11:18:33 We use yards for longer distances, feet for shorter ones Dec 08 11:18:45 but i would ignore that problem Dec 08 11:18:47 and use SI Dec 08 11:19:08 just because the label is a bit off doesn't mean I expect it to give me 0.004 mi Dec 08 11:19:08 si is a way to go Dec 08 11:19:09 most people use SI for short distances, but miles for long ones Dec 08 11:19:24 lardman: http://maps.ovi.com/#|60.1702719|24.9309825|1907|0|0 Dec 08 11:19:25 so you really need to be able to mix and match metric + Imperial to suit the English Dec 08 11:19:31 well, on the opposite, “change to km” changes to m Dec 08 11:19:45 Corsac: yeah, i didn't say they were any smarter for metric Dec 08 11:19:50 they're just plain stupid Dec 08 11:20:05 Corsac: I think that m is metres rather than miles, but is confusing Dec 08 11:20:13 they do get some points for being consistently stupid Dec 08 11:20:33 sp3000: i'm complaining about the label Dec 08 11:20:39 well, http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-11-13/1258107474582.png Dec 08 11:20:40 the other bits aren't interesting atm :) Dec 08 11:20:43 lardman: so what? Dec 08 11:20:52 look at that picture Dec 08 11:21:00 lardman: I was just saying that the scale issue was present in SI too Dec 08 11:21:04 lardman: not that m would mean miles Dec 08 11:21:13 ok Dec 08 11:21:34 jacekowski: they lose points for failing to use 'metric' to label tonne Dec 08 11:21:37 lardman: i use kilometers for long ones as well Dec 08 11:22:01 and that's confusing a lot of people Dec 08 11:22:03 jacekowski: Are you English? Dec 08 11:22:05 jacekowski: hey, that's mean... we're not the only country to use the imperial system Dec 08 11:22:18 lardman: no, but i live in england Dec 08 11:22:25 lardman, his name ends in "owski" Dec 08 11:22:26 ah, well that's different ;) Dec 08 11:22:40 * timeless_webchat chuckles Dec 08 11:22:41 burma for instance uses it Dec 08 11:22:52 crashanddie: I thought I'd ask Dec 08 11:23:02 anyway, for people who are curious, it turns out that ovi maps supports geoloc Dec 08 11:23:08 i'm not sure how screwed up that is Dec 08 11:23:17 via browser? Dec 08 11:23:19 other than them totally failing to use standard art for it Dec 08 11:23:21 lardman: yes Dec 08 11:23:35 you can't tell because the idiots aren't using standard iconography for it Dec 08 11:24:51 "Ovi Maps for Web isn't accessible from your Maemo device browser", har har Dec 08 11:25:10 when going to maps.ovi.com with n900 Dec 08 11:25:46 hmm, I've told it to use my location, but it doesn't seem to show any markers Dec 08 11:25:56 on a desktop Linux box this is Dec 08 11:26:11 I don't think it gives you an indication that it's working Dec 08 11:26:35 unfortunately it only took 2s for me so a bit hard to be sure Dec 08 11:26:58 s,working,trying to do something, Dec 08 11:27:11 in which case I'm impressed at the accuracy of the IP lookup, I could be anywhere from Iceland, Nova Scotia, Sweden, Kazakhstan down through Libya Dec 08 11:28:38 timeless_webchat, the miles/yards thing, agreed it should be metric/imperial/american but when you pan the map out it does correctly show miles as indicated Dec 08 11:29:02 lcuk: yeah, i didn't say it doesn't toggle metric/imperial Dec 08 11:29:09 i'm just saying the label is wrong Dec 08 11:29:24 it fails the "does it do what it says on the box" test Dec 08 11:29:28 which is pretty impressive Dec 08 11:29:58 * timeless_webchat is waiting for 106 packages to finish extracting Dec 08 11:30:06 does this look right? osso_cp_plugin_execute(osso_context, "/usr/lib/hildon-control-panel/libcpfmtx.so", NULL, TRUE); Dec 08 11:32:55 does linux support thread priorities? Dec 08 11:33:50 lardman: I'd guess it does Dec 08 11:34:47 I thought so, but the QThread docs had an odd comment in them Dec 08 11:34:59 lardman: ...regarding linux threads even have their own process ID Dec 08 11:35:00 lardman: linux has had 2 thread models Dec 08 11:35:06 well, 3 i suppose Dec 08 11:35:08 lardman, not used to QThreads, but pthreads has pthread_setschedparam() Dec 08 11:35:35 timeless_webchat: yeah, swapped to the new model some years ago Dec 08 11:35:44 achipa: Ok, it took some time to find but now the testingsquad-comments work again. Dec 08 11:35:47 LinuxThreads and NPTL are the main ones Dec 08 11:35:54 posix threads I guess that's been Dec 08 11:36:02 and green threads Dec 08 11:36:05 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/stable/qthread.html#setPriority Dec 08 11:37:34 lardman: well the link it points to is still live Dec 08 11:37:40 and explains why they wrote what they wrote Dec 08 11:37:55 lardman, what are you trying to do exactly? Dec 08 11:38:23 lardman, intra-process thread management is notoriously unstable and unpredictable Dec 08 11:38:44 lardman, you may want to consider spawning a full blown secondary process and set priorities on that rather than through threading Dec 08 11:38:57 I need to do bg loading of various odds and sods Dec 08 11:39:59 which necessitates sharing the memory space Dec 08 11:40:14 No it doesn't :P Dec 08 11:40:52 timeless_webchat: What in that linked doc are you referring too? Their wording indicates that Linux threads cannot have priorities Dec 08 11:41:04 crashanddie: it does, my usecase does Dec 08 11:41:11 lardman: hold on, i wanted to point to http://kerneltrap.org/node/6080 Dec 08 11:41:26 could I ask someone for a ping reminder later to push library and liqcalendar to maemo devel :$ Dec 08 11:41:29 the url you pasted has this: Dec 08 11:41:30 enum except for InheritPriorty. The effect of the priority parameter is dependent on the operating system's scheduling policy. In particular, the priority will be ignored on systems that do not support thread priorities (such as on Linux, see http://linux.die.net/man/2/sched_setscheduler for more details). Dec 08 11:41:38 the last bit 'see ....' is a url Dec 08 11:41:39 Sweet, I can now write apps that use QML with OpenGL optimized rendering :) Dec 08 11:41:50 which isn't linkified in the page, but is probably linkified in your irc client Dec 08 11:41:50 It's just two lines of code too .. Dec 08 11:41:55 yeah, but it says that it doesn't support priorities Dec 08 11:42:05 that was the page which i indicated is still aliev Dec 08 11:42:08 s/liev/live/ Dec 08 11:42:08 timeless_webchat meant: that was the page which i indicated is still alive Dec 08 11:43:12 it doesn't talk about threads though is what I meant Dec 08 11:43:22 just use IPC with a lazy initialisation, resource initialisation or publish/subscribe pattern, lardman Dec 08 11:43:32 and why Linux doesn't support them, which is the implication from the Qt doc page Dec 08 11:43:36 or is that over-engineering your problem? Dec 08 11:43:58 alterego, but that 2 lines of code stops you from using direct qml and requires a binary? Dec 08 11:44:05 how do you do that using IPC? Shared memory spaces? Dec 08 11:44:24 named pipe Dec 08 11:44:34 or shared memory Dec 08 11:44:46 lcuk: having a binary doesnt stop you from using qml :p Dec 08 11:45:01 i think what matters is probably how http://linux.die.net/man/3/pthread_attr_setschedparam behaves Dec 08 11:45:03 means I'd have to handle the low level stuff of where to create objects, can't really be bothered with that Dec 08 11:45:28 lardman, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/ipc-sharedmemory.html Dec 08 11:45:44 frals, it stops you from building a simple data only package that you can just use as is cross platform Dec 08 11:46:28 if those 2 lines that alterego is talking about were in the core qmlrunner thingy then it would be useful, there must be a reason they aren't.. Dec 08 11:47:24 crashanddie: generating class objects and placing them in shared memory, then handing over the pointers doesn't sound overly fun and would be time consuming Dec 08 11:47:24 lardman: anyway, it looks like _OTHER being the default type doesn't really do scheduling priority hints Dec 08 11:47:46 your time, or the app's time? Dec 08 11:47:50 it gets a dynamic management based on how it behaves and the priority of its process Dec 08 11:48:10 crashanddie: my time debugging Dec 08 11:48:43 lardman: i suppose you could try managing a realtime thread from Qt Dec 08 11:48:47 * timeless_webchat wouldn't try it Dec 08 11:48:48 timeless_webchat: ok, shame, as I already have a gst thread, two decoder threads and the Qt ui thread, I was hoping I could set the bg loader to be low pri Dec 08 11:49:15 lardman: i'd assume the gst thread is realtime Dec 08 11:49:17 perhaps just some sleeping then rather than running a tight loop while it loads things Dec 08 11:49:21 and thus does have a real priority Dec 08 11:49:41 timeless_webchat: only just, it's not happy if anything else tries running computationally intensive code Dec 08 11:49:51 heh Dec 08 11:50:04 though that could always be the callbacks which stall in the Qt thread Dec 08 11:50:09 either way it's not ideal Dec 08 11:50:21 you could try marking all threads as realtime and then assigning them proper priorities Dec 08 11:50:25 * timeless_webchat has no idea if that'd work Dec 08 11:50:54 not sure if I can do that with QThreads Dec 08 11:51:25 I was using pthreads previously, but thought this Qt centralisation might make life easier.... Dec 08 11:52:46 hrm, drinking coolai Dec 08 11:52:53 s/coolai/koolaid Dec 08 11:53:20 * lardman adds some msleep() calls to his looping code to see if that agrees with the other threads better Dec 08 11:53:36 lcuk: yes Dec 08 11:53:50 lcuk: well, no, you can use qmlviewer -opengl to do the same thing. Dec 08 11:54:49 Now to packing this thing up in scratchbox. Dec 08 11:55:25 Then work on a meego port :) Dec 08 12:01:26 why are Qt Creator's debuggins sessions so damn slow Dec 08 12:06:07 Ah, Qt creator integration into scratchbox is still working nicely :) Dec 08 12:22:18 i'm trying to correct vignetting in digikam, can anyone point me to some data about the n900's lens? Dec 08 12:34:26 hello Dec 08 12:37:16 could someone send me mmc-mount file from usr/sbin/ i accidentaly emptied my file when trying to install preenv.. Dec 08 12:40:48 copying a UI is so damn hard :/ http://i56.tinypic.com/bfqtea.jpg Dec 08 12:41:22 Is the UI not stored in some decompilable format? Dec 08 12:41:26 heh Dec 08 12:41:27 (Innocent question.) Dec 08 12:41:28 "Since 1978, at least 37 people have died as a result of shaking vending machines in an attempt to get free merchandise. More than 100 have been injured." Dec 08 12:42:05 FauxFaux, not that I know of, and it's in Qt, so not much help Dec 08 12:42:16 MohammadAG, nice job Dec 08 12:42:32 MohammadAG: you're writing a media player? Dec 08 12:42:36 MohammadAG, looks nice. What happened to your browser re-do? Dec 08 12:42:56 crashanddie, still needs work Dec 08 12:43:48 Corsac, yes, part of a team (hopefully) Dec 08 12:44:02 Termana, it's using QWebKit, can't compete with microb Dec 08 12:44:25 crashanddie: more like rocking than shaking, i think - people think stuff will come out of two people rock it back and forth Dec 08 12:44:29 and then it falls on them Dec 08 12:44:44 MohammadAG: copying is easy, creating is hard ;) Dec 08 12:44:44 MohammadAG: wishlist: implement gapless playback and random by album (play album continuously, then select a different album randomly) Dec 08 12:44:49 timeless_: lardman: isn't it amazing how OO sometimes facilitates things, esp low level things like dealing with process/thread scheduling? :-P Dec 08 12:45:30 MohammadAG: are you trying to make a clone of the mediaplayer UI in Qt? Dec 08 12:45:55 BCMM, we're going to replace the stock mediaplayer with an open source one Dec 08 12:46:06 that is a really good idea Dec 08 12:46:28 frals, I'm trying to use layouts, something the stock media player lacks Dec 08 12:46:41 is all the nice DSP-using stuff in open-source gstreamer plugins? Dec 08 12:47:03 MohammadAG: Ah, for portrait? Dec 08 12:47:06 I listen to songs on my N900 when I'm on the move, so using portrait mode would be nice Dec 08 12:47:15 BCMM: Should be abstracted by Qt Multimedia (part of Qt Mobility) Dec 08 12:49:31 Jaffa, yeah Dec 08 12:50:11 Jaffa: heh, Qt itself now has multiple audio playback APIs? Dec 08 12:50:18 (with this an Phonon) Dec 08 12:50:22 ^and Dec 08 12:50:50 Jaffa, just wondering, do those use gstreamer? Dec 08 12:52:51 MohammadAG: On Maemo, MeeGo - yes. I believe so. Dec 08 12:53:19 Jaffa, so it should be possible to get visualizations in there Dec 08 12:53:51 MohammadAG: Theoretically; depending on plugins. Dec 08 12:54:22 Jaffa, they work with gst-launch Dec 08 12:54:31 MohammadAG: Apart from some improved access to my music storage (and maybe the Internet radio display); putting nice reflections on the album art is about what I want. As well as proving we can do an open source re-impl. Dec 08 12:55:05 Jaffa, not sure how to do those, though alterego might know Dec 08 13:00:16 i want old amarok on n900 Dec 08 13:00:19 i mean 1.4 Dec 08 13:00:36 MohammadAG: It's just a copy of the image with some transformations and a fade applied. Dec 08 13:00:48 MohammadAG: But I say v1.0 starts as an accurate clone in as little code as possible. Dec 08 13:00:54 MohammadAG: Then we can build on top Dec 08 13:02:23 http://i.imgur.com/qQWHY.jpg HAHAHAHAH Dec 08 13:02:26 DocScrutinizer: seems to me the only effect of OO is hiding stuff you might need to know about :p Dec 08 13:02:50 yep Dec 08 13:02:51 urgh, so qmake uses INSTALL_ROOT rather than DESTDIR Dec 08 13:04:18 I guess if all the support classes were perfect, then life would be nice ;) Dec 08 13:09:48 life would be perfect to me if i didnt have to reflash just because one stupid typo.. Dec 08 13:11:12 hm Dec 08 13:11:41 anybody know what the best way would be to ssh tunnel to a box on a local subnet so i can vnc to it rom a shell box? Dec 08 13:12:04 wonder if i can tunnel on the n900 Dec 08 13:12:13 you can Dec 08 13:12:19 but your previous statement didn't make any sense Dec 08 13:12:22 so please explain again Dec 08 13:12:42 Heh, that's what I was thinking ... Dec 08 13:12:43 ^.^ Dec 08 13:13:39 crashanddie: i have a box running behind my router at home that is on my local subnet at home but not accessable directly Dec 08 13:14:22 i have a box for shells on the same router with the ssh port forwarded to it so i can ssh to it from the outside Dec 08 13:14:40 oh, easy Dec 08 13:14:49 i want to use maemo vnc to connect to the box that is running vncserver Dec 08 13:14:56 using the maemo vnc client Dec 08 13:15:04 and tunneling through the ssh box Dec 08 13:15:12 :) Dec 08 13:15:14 Can VNC use socks? Dec 08 13:15:30 alternatively you could use tsocks I guess :) Dec 08 13:15:41 well.. right now i am not home Dec 08 13:15:43 A double forward is interesting. Dec 08 13:16:01 all i really have to work with is the fact that i can ssh to one of the boxes Dec 08 13:16:11 what's the VNC port? Dec 08 13:16:15 i wouldnt open up a vnc port on my router Dec 08 13:16:26 Macer: good job ;) Dec 08 13:16:33 standard port... i am trying to remember it off the top of my head Dec 08 13:16:34 it's easy, just give me the port of VNC Dec 08 13:16:47 5900? Dec 08 13:17:06 i want to say 5900 Dec 08 13:17:14 from the outside: ssh -L 5900::5900 user@ Dec 08 13:17:22 then on the N900, vnc localhost:5900 Dec 08 13:17:50 * crashanddie waits for brainmelt Dec 08 13:17:50 that's it? Dec 08 13:17:55 yup Dec 08 13:18:36 and it will tunnel to the remopte local subnet? Dec 08 13:18:41 yup Dec 08 13:19:12 what's the IP of the VNC server? Dec 08 13:19:28 192.168.1.24 Dec 08 13:19:45 ssh -L 5900:192.168.1.24:5900 user@ Dec 08 13:21:03 wow Dec 08 13:21:09 that was awesome. thanks Dec 08 13:21:17 anytime Dec 08 13:22:17 people underestimate the power of SSH tunnels :P Dec 08 13:25:12 haha Dec 08 13:25:22 ssh tunnels are awesome just because of that Dec 08 13:25:24 :) Dec 08 13:25:32 encrypted vnc ftw Dec 08 13:26:57 is there a way to add the tunnels to the standard ssh config? Dec 08 13:27:09 so i can add a bunch of tunnels? Dec 08 13:29:08 I wouldn't recommend it Dec 08 13:29:13 crashanddie: I didn't even know that was possible :) Dec 08 13:29:25 cuz then, everytime you open an SSH connection, you would have port collision Dec 08 13:29:36 Yeah, I'd be careful with that. Dec 08 13:29:39 just create a shell script that starts the tunnels you need Dec 08 13:29:46 and give it a timeout of one hour Dec 08 13:29:55 Though you can setup forwards per host .. Dec 08 13:30:37 really? Dec 08 13:31:31 so how would i add more than one forward? Dec 08 13:31:48 just -L first second etc user@host? Dec 08 13:32:26 for example: ssh -f -N -L 5900:192.168.1.24:5900 -L 8080:192.168.1.24:80 user@ sleep 3600 Dec 08 13:32:42 that would keep the connection active for one hour Dec 08 13:32:49 and then disconnect it automatically Dec 08 13:33:07 (btw, this is from memory, so some switches may be a tiny bit wrong) Dec 08 13:34:37 oh. ok Dec 08 13:34:43 so multiple -L Dec 08 13:34:46 yeah Dec 08 13:34:52 awesomeness Dec 08 13:35:01 if you want the connection to automatically die after one hour: -f -N sleep 3600 Dec 08 13:35:56 won't the connection automatically die when you close ssh? Dec 08 13:37:41 well, yes Dec 08 13:37:50 * alterego twiddles his fingers Dec 08 13:37:56 but this way, with -f -N, you fork the SSH connection to only handle the tunnels Dec 08 13:38:03 so you can close the terminal or whatever, but still use VNC Dec 08 13:38:36 git gl -S'acapela_dispatcher' Dec 08 13:38:38 crapper Dec 08 13:39:37 ooooh Dec 08 13:39:38 wow Dec 08 13:39:54 and if it disconnects? Dec 08 13:40:03 if what disconnects? Dec 08 13:40:09 does it automatically reconnect in the background? Dec 08 13:40:11 ssh Dec 08 13:40:21 nope, you'll have to relaunch the command Dec 08 13:40:42 so there is no way to be notified if it disconnected when it's forked? Dec 08 13:40:55 nope Dec 08 13:41:03 is there a way to get it to autoreconnect? :) Dec 08 13:41:14 using the fork? Not that I'm aware of Dec 08 13:41:30 hello everyone Dec 08 13:41:32 wrt n900 charger. it was ac-10e vs. ac-6e issue Dec 08 13:42:20 and nobody in five damn stores knew that they differ Dec 08 13:42:27 is there a way i can make a shortcut of a .sh file on my desktop? Dec 08 13:42:48 crashanddie: thanks a ton. this is great Dec 08 13:42:57 trx: make a .desktop file for it and put that to the right place Dec 08 13:42:59 trx: just write .desktop file and put in in same dir where other files are stored Dec 08 13:43:00 np, happy to help Dec 08 13:43:14 Venemo_N900: :P Dec 08 13:43:24 thank you ill try that Dec 08 13:43:58 trx: somewhere in /usr/share. find /usr/share -name \*.desktop will find current ones Dec 08 13:44:19 slonopotamus: :P Dec 08 13:44:36 ty Dec 08 13:49:48 why is it that sometimes when I have a missed call, music starts playing? Dec 08 13:50:34 Venemo_N900: It's a bug Dec 08 13:50:48 If you've paused music, and an alert happens, it unpauses music. Dec 08 13:51:02 It's actually the only way I've found to get it to play video with the screen off Dec 08 13:51:31 http://www.spacex.com/webcast.php 15 minutes till launch of falcon 9 Dec 08 13:56:54 What's Falcon 9? Dec 08 13:57:31 alterego: A large rocket. Dec 08 13:57:33 A new, vastly cheaper entrant into the space launch buisness. Dec 08 13:57:40 Cool Dec 08 13:57:48 http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php Dec 08 13:57:59 That's doing it on a tiny, tiny fraction of the budget of 'proper' companies - Boeing, lockmart, ... Dec 08 13:58:19 Section: user/Multimedia is right, right? Dec 08 13:58:26 alterego: No Dec 08 13:58:33 user/multimedia? Dec 08 13:58:34 all lowercase please. Dec 08 13:58:36 Jaffa, agreed Dec 08 13:58:38 Okay, cool :) Dec 08 13:58:44 Started by the co-founder of Paypal Dec 08 14:04:12 Hmm abort? Dec 08 14:04:25 SpeedEvil: what component's bug is it? Dec 08 14:04:28 'turn it off, turn it on again' Dec 08 14:04:33 huoston, we have a problem Dec 08 14:04:44 The internal computer on the payload failed to start I think. Dec 08 14:04:49 good morning MohammadAG Dec 08 14:04:51 ~flashing Dec 08 14:04:53 somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Dec 08 14:05:03 hey Venemo_N900 Dec 08 14:05:15 remember the thing you told me about wasting memory opening windows? Dec 08 14:05:30 what if I don't want to delete a window Dec 08 14:05:37 yeah I recall something about memory leaks Dec 08 14:05:58 well you can of course use one instance of a window Dec 08 14:06:30 just don't create new ones every time then :) Dec 08 14:07:55 and don't lose the pointer of the of the other window Dec 08 14:09:01 MohammadAG: window.hide() :P Dec 08 14:09:34 in the constructor i guess? Dec 08 14:09:42 lol, wut? Dec 08 14:09:53 just don't .show() it Dec 08 14:10:01 but don't add .hide() in the constructor Dec 08 14:10:07 MohammadAG: make it an instance member variable Dec 08 14:10:16 crashanddie: I'm saying when he wants to hide it. Dec 08 14:10:22 And not delete it .. Dec 08 14:10:26 sure Dec 08 14:10:28 Obviously .. Dec 08 14:10:35 but I replied to his in the constructor i guess? Dec 08 14:10:42 word Dec 08 14:10:45 :) Dec 08 14:11:00 damn Dec 08 14:11:23 vnc over ssh tunnel is nice Dec 08 14:11:26 our git server is growing a lot faster than I expected it to Dec 08 14:11:38 wish it would work more like rdp tho where it scales Dec 08 14:13:30 well, NX Dec 08 14:21:13 hmhm, is there an scp sharing plugin? Dec 08 14:22:56 jacekowski: have you ever managed to make snx run on the n900? Dec 08 14:23:37 jacekowski: or any other nx client? Dec 08 14:30:19 Corsac: Yes Dec 08 14:30:25 Anyone test thunderbird on maemo? Dec 08 14:30:44 Corsac: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39705 Dec 08 14:30:45 Also, how do I fix all of my calendar times which are still -1 hour since DST ended? Dec 08 14:30:56 Jaffa: oh, so nice Dec 08 14:32:00 E: Handler silently failed Dec 08 14:32:00 internetishard: by hand? Dec 08 14:32:06 * Corsac mumbles about apt-get Dec 08 14:32:44 Venemo_N900: to fix the calendar? Dec 08 14:32:54 I have to take all of those entrees and re-write them? Dec 08 14:33:55 how do i right click in the vnc clent for maemo? Dec 08 14:34:16 internetishard: I don't have a better idea Dec 08 14:34:48 Do you all use the default email and calendar apps? Dec 08 14:34:56 Rather, do any of you use something different? Dec 08 14:35:12 well I use the default ones Dec 08 14:35:28 there're no usable alternatives (yet?) Dec 08 14:35:53 Is that a statement, or question? Dec 08 14:36:28 it means that I don't know of any usable alternatives, but there might be Dec 08 14:37:09 supposedly thunderbird, but there is no release date afaik Dec 08 14:37:45 there is an app called claws mail Dec 08 14:37:51 but I didn't try Dec 08 14:39:41 is there a way i can call a "Message Window" from a .sh file? (like wifi switcher does) Dec 08 14:42:03 Jaffa: hmhm, does sharing let logs somewhere? Dec 08 14:44:08 Corsac: Dunno, never tried it. Dec 08 14:50:11 bb Dec 08 14:56:18 can someone please make a proper libqt4-dev package? :/ Dec 08 14:56:38 MohammadAG: what's wrong with the one in -devel? Dec 08 14:57:06 use file on it, the armel package is full of x86 binaries Dec 08 15:01:43 fun times Dec 08 15:04:09 alterego, yeah, lots of it, especially when you've got an on device SDK Dec 08 15:07:26 MyDocs full, crap Dec 08 15:09:10 s/full,/full, of/ Dec 08 15:09:11 :) Dec 08 15:10:29 lol Dec 08 15:13:30 should probably start using my microSD card Dec 08 15:14:11 http://i.imgur.com/qQWHY.jpg mohammed - lol (sfw) Dec 08 15:21:49 grmbl, one can't add multiple command line sharing accounts Dec 08 15:21:59 at least not to the same user@server Dec 08 15:23:18 hm Dec 08 15:38:55 i am trying the following in a .sh file : Dec 08 15:38:56 dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteDialog string:'Entering root!' uint32:0 string:'NAO OK!' method return sender=:1.1 -> dest=:1.15 uint32 4 Dec 08 15:39:21 "it says that data item "method" is badly formed" Dec 08 15:40:06 any ideas? i found the code here : http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/DBus/DBus_Basics Dec 08 15:40:22 (The Hello World example) Dec 08 15:42:59 nevermind im an idiot.. Dec 08 15:49:19 okay Dec 08 15:52:09 hi i have problem in fremantle i installed rootsh but eveytime i try to use sudo kernel-config i get the following error message: Dec 08 15:52:14 user is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported. Dec 08 15:52:29 any help would be appricated Dec 08 15:52:33 are you sure rootsh gives you sudo rights? Dec 08 15:52:36 Pauly: just run "root" Dec 08 15:53:13 samething Dec 08 15:53:18 happening Dec 08 15:53:51 samething = "same thing" or "something"? Dec 08 15:53:52 ping DocScrutinizer Dec 08 15:54:13 samething Dec 08 15:54:29 how about "gainroot" Dec 08 15:54:39 Pauly: :/ Dec 08 15:55:03 tried that also Dec 08 15:59:25 i fixed eveything thank you for your help Dec 08 16:06:03 hi Dec 08 16:09:09 hey blackthorne Dec 08 16:25:27 hello Dec 08 16:25:59 anyone know of a video sharing plugin for twitter on fremantle? Dec 08 16:26:13 hi everyone Dec 08 16:26:40 i am trying to port moon activity from debian to maemo Dec 08 16:27:02 can anyone guide me on how packaging is done for maemo from scratch Dec 08 16:27:09 any help would be appreciated Dec 08 16:27:29 same as for debian Dec 08 16:29:06 ibansal, Maemo is based on Debian. The packaging is nearly the same (except for the packages categories) Dec 08 16:30:39 crashanddie, can you elaborate it further Dec 08 16:30:55 ibansal, no, but the wiki / google can Dec 08 16:31:05 (oh come on, Debian user? You should know to rtfm) Dec 08 16:31:42 crashanddie, okay Dec 08 16:33:00 moooyawn. Dec 08 16:35:23 ế Dec 08 16:35:26 ẹ Dec 08 16:36:49 i use h-e-n to enumerate devices and then udhcpc to make my usb network adapter work, but even when i unplug the device eth0 stays there Dec 08 16:37:00 ( when i check with route -n) Dec 08 16:37:15 how do i properly dispose of the device? Dec 08 16:37:51 ifconfig down maybe? Dec 08 16:37:54 never used ethernet adapters, sorry Dec 08 16:37:59 ill try Dec 08 16:38:04 tnx Dec 08 16:38:11 crashanddie, who's working on the mediaplayer again? Need to add commit permissions Dec 08 16:39:29 Jaffa, lcuk, javispedro, alterego: please state your involvement with the FOSS mediaplayer. Dec 08 16:40:21 crashanddie: Interested. Want to see MohammadAG's code to date. Getting a feature-compatible 1.0 would be a big win Dec 08 16:40:45 crashanddie: same here, I'm helping MohammadAG with any coding issues he has. Dec 08 16:40:55 I'm only almost (I guess you could say that) done with the UI Dec 08 16:41:08 only thing left is the radio list and video windows, but those are piss easy Dec 08 16:41:20 MohammadAG: the backend will be the most interesting thing for me ;) Dec 08 16:41:22 MohammadAG, so what needs to be done on a code level? Dec 08 16:41:55 crashanddie, file listing, media selecting, reading music length and where we're at atm Dec 08 16:42:03 etc Dec 08 16:42:09 * alterego tries to remember how to upload to extras Dec 08 16:42:15 alterego: scp Dec 08 16:42:16 alterego, the backend will be an asshole to code in Dec 08 16:42:24 Jaffa: yeah, forgotten what I need :P Dec 08 16:42:32 alterego, dput -f fremantle-extras-builder somefile_0.1_sources.changes Dec 08 16:42:49 Googling "qt" and "tracker" is a PIT Dec 08 16:42:50 +A Dec 08 16:42:55 or use the extras assistant Dec 08 16:43:27 I've yet to figure out how to get this working in Qt, osso_cp_plugin_execute (priv->osso_context, "libcpfmtx.so", plugin, TRUE); Dec 08 16:43:30 MohammadAG: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1.0-beta/qml-multimedia.html looks interesting Dec 08 16:43:36 it's from qwerty12's FOSS mediaplayer Dec 08 16:43:47 Jaffa, that's qml though :/ Dec 08 16:44:03 plugin is a gpointer, do those even exist in Qt/C++? Dec 08 16:44:08 MohammadAG: True - Googling other Qt stuff seems to be returning the (good) QML Dec 08 16:44:12 MohammadAG: Yes. Dec 08 16:44:38 MohammadAG you were right, ty Dec 08 16:44:42 hmm? Dec 08 16:45:28 Jaffa, mind helping me with this small line then? http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/nowplayingwindow.cpp#line65 :) Dec 08 16:45:34 FYI, not the latest commit Dec 08 16:47:09 closest I could get with 5 minutes and Qt Designer's layouts, http://i56.tinypic.com/bfqtea.jpg Dec 08 16:47:24 for now at least Dec 08 16:47:52 Nice :) Dec 08 16:49:42 * MohammadAG adjusts layouts a bit Dec 08 16:56:10 ping X-Fade Dec 08 16:58:11 Well, lets try that again .. Dec 08 16:58:19 This time without qt4-opengl-dev O_O Dec 08 16:58:36 D Dec 08 16:58:48 alterego, what's wrong? Dec 08 16:59:00 libqt4-dev and libqt4-opengl-dev apparently conflict Dec 08 16:59:13 how? Dec 08 16:59:31 * alterego shrugs Dec 08 16:59:58 I'm wondering if the libqt4-dev in extras includes gl support, or something Dec 08 17:00:36 alterego, probably, not :P Dec 08 17:00:43 libqt4-dev is such a fucked up package Dec 08 17:00:46 Yer .. Dec 08 17:01:28 Hah Dec 08 17:01:40 Yup, that worked. Dec 08 17:01:47 0k free memory on the N900 o_O Dec 08 17:03:24 Sure, it builds fine for x86, but it segfaults when you run it .. Dec 08 17:03:39 I should probably disable gl rendering when compiled for x86 scratchbox. Dec 08 17:03:41 Oh well .. Dec 08 17:03:58 isn't this the IR app? Dec 08 17:04:05 Yes Dec 08 17:04:17 But QML+OpenGL in x86 scratchbox doesn't work so well. Dec 08 17:04:22 why should it run in scratchbox anyways? P Dec 08 17:05:09 xbox360-media-remote 1.0-1maemo1 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository Dec 08 17:05:12 :) Dec 08 17:05:51 * alterego wonders when the next import is Dec 08 17:06:05 Well, I've uninstalled all the deps on my device to test the package when it appears in -devel Dec 08 17:06:13 now Dec 08 17:06:14 * alterego has a break. Dec 08 17:06:21 you probably missed it Dec 08 17:06:30 the one after is on 5:35 UTC Dec 08 17:06:30 Yeah, think so Dec 08 17:06:59 Probably enough time to do the washing up ^.^ Dec 08 17:07:04 bbiafm Dec 08 17:07:17 Then I'll write the tmo post ;) Dec 08 17:07:25 [2010-12-08 19:01:50] xbox360-media-remote 1.0-1maemo1 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository Dec 08 17:07:28 or not Dec 08 17:07:34 it might be imported in 5 minutes :P Dec 08 17:09:11 hmm, do you reckon I could chop my plugin loading up into chunks and use postevent to dispatch these with a low priority? Dec 08 17:09:20 Cool Dec 08 17:21:29 hi all Dec 08 17:23:58 hi Dec 08 17:28:28 anyone know if there's a static method to get the QApplication object? Dec 08 17:29:11 ah, qApp looks suitable Dec 08 17:39:27 Well, if anyone has an Xbox 360 then please test my app :) Dec 08 17:40:40 alterego, http://i54.tinypic.com/2h3zajd.jpg Dec 08 17:41:17 Mohammad: Wow, it is Media Player!!! Dec 08 17:41:25 artist and album are a little close Dec 08 17:41:40 Mohammad: Are you gonna fix it while you are reimplementing it? :) Dec 08 17:41:49 alterego, see the stock player Dec 08 17:42:00 alterego, they're a bit closer there :P Dec 08 17:42:18 MohammadAG: can you add me as read only at the moment Dec 08 17:42:18 RST38h, maybe :P Dec 08 17:42:29 read only? Dec 08 17:42:40 okay, well, change the font color to mid then :P Dec 08 17:42:40 ah, so it's public? Dec 08 17:43:04 where is teh source? Dec 08 17:44:29 http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer Dec 08 17:45:28 alterego, how :P Dec 08 17:46:04 alterego, also, is there a way to move widgets in between layouts at runtime? Dec 08 17:46:17 am I right in thinking that QMaemo5InformationBox::information() can be called with some timeout, then called again to override the original timeout? Dec 08 17:46:43 MohammadAG: nice, any innards for the new improved media player? Dec 08 17:46:57 it's just a UI for now Dec 08 17:47:35 should be reasonably straightforward to add playbin + the playlist lib stuff that was being talked about at the Maemo summit Dec 08 17:47:38 (broken nicks so as to not ping them) Jaff a, lcu k, javisped ro, altereg o: please state your involvement with the FOSS mediaplayer. Dec 08 17:47:42 MohammadAG: I think you have to remove them and reparent them. Dec 08 17:47:45 MohammadAG: i think you have to detach it from one layer and attach to another Dec 08 17:47:53 MohammadAG: btw. is shuffle working correctly? Dec 08 17:48:04 MohammadAG: or is it going to be broken like in original mediaplayer? Dec 08 17:48:09 or make two instances of them, not very memory friendly though is it Dec 08 17:48:19 jacekowski, it's only a UI Dec 08 17:48:24 no functionality whatsoever Dec 08 17:48:31 so what's the point Dec 08 17:48:32 it's a one hour job Dec 08 17:48:35 * MohammadAG curses school Dec 08 17:48:46 jacekowski, usually, you don't code a full media player in one hour :P Dec 08 17:48:47 jacekowski: to replace the Nokia one Dec 08 17:49:04 MohammadAG: you need to challenge yourself now and again ;) Dec 08 17:49:25 lardman: but he just said that it's only ui Dec 08 17:49:30 lardman: not real media player Dec 08 17:49:35 jacekowski: indeed, it's a start Dec 08 17:49:48 ah so i'm asking question now Dec 08 17:49:51 mafw is what I was thinking about, though whether that will remain in Meego I don't know Dec 08 17:50:04 are you planning to implement shuffle in a same way as nokia media player did it Dec 08 17:50:07 or in correct way Dec 08 17:50:17 lardman: it's not in meego Dec 08 17:50:26 jacekowski: whichever way someone patches it to work I imagine ;) Dec 08 17:50:31 alterego: ok, thanks Dec 08 17:50:40 lardman: if it is, it'll be grillo Dec 08 17:51:36 grillo? Dec 08 17:51:56 I was told grillo is the new mafw Dec 08 17:52:07 do you have a linky> Dec 08 17:52:32 We want to use mafw though for this, because it'll integrate straight away with default media player desktop widget Dec 08 17:52:40 true Dec 08 17:52:56 And that app I wrote ages ago Dec 08 17:52:56 bbiam Dec 08 17:53:03 anybody tried Asus RT N16 router? Dec 08 17:53:25 * GAN900 is having good success with Linksys E3000 Dec 08 17:55:32 anyone willing to share mmc-mount file from usr/sbin/ ? Dec 08 17:55:44 just download ke-recv Dec 08 17:55:49 it's part of it afaik Dec 08 17:55:57 apt-get --reinstall install ke-recv Dec 08 17:56:32 http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/ke-recv/blobs/master/src/mmc-mount Dec 08 17:56:37 thank you :) Dec 08 17:57:14 re Dec 08 17:58:12 GAN900: do you use sip with it? Dec 08 17:58:55 I've never really felt like writing a media player, so never really looked too hard at the docs, but these seem quite decent: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/Media_Application_Framework_%28MAFW%29 Dec 08 17:59:10 perhaps it was all a lure from the Nokians to get us to replace the built-in anyway ;) Dec 08 18:00:10 hmm, MAWF is GObject based Dec 08 18:00:11 Calculating Space is the title of MIT's English translation of Konrad Zuse's 1969 book Rechnender Raum (literally: "space that is computing"), the first book on digital physics. Dec 08 18:00:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Space Dec 08 18:00:23 And here's my thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=892449 Dec 08 18:00:25 lcuk: osc! ;) Dec 08 18:03:13 bbl Dec 08 18:05:46 trumee, have, not often, though. Dec 08 18:05:58 trumee, running DD-WRT on it. Dec 08 18:06:25 GAN900: i am having terrible performance with WRT54GL, so planning to upgrade to something else. Dec 08 18:06:52 trumee, got an old machine you could put FreeBSD on or similar? Dec 08 18:07:12 trumee, I've become a bit of a fan of specialized components lately. Dec 08 18:07:22 GAN900: i do have a spare machine, but the issue is the wireless component. Dec 08 18:07:41 trumee, ah. Dec 08 18:07:46 Network interference? Dec 08 18:08:04 Hi all, my /dev/video* is missing. Did anyone had this kind of problem before? I'm running powerkernel. Dec 08 18:08:13 GAN900: No idea. But N900 doesnt like WRT54GL wifi. It causes very choppy sip audio. Dec 08 18:08:43 GAN900: It is only the sip performance which is bad. Other than that everything is quite good. Dec 08 18:10:10 trumee, what are you running on there? Dec 08 18:10:26 trumee, I really love Tomato on those routers. Dec 08 18:10:36 Could be neighbors stepping on your signal? Dec 08 18:10:56 GAN900: i have tried tomato but it was no better than ddwrt. i too like tomato more though. Dec 08 18:11:02 I just shuffled around channels last week and went from 2Mbps to 25. Dec 08 18:11:16 GAN900: i did a wifi site survey and i am the only one on channel 10. Dec 08 18:11:42 MohammadAG, hey Dec 08 18:12:05 GAN900: How did you check your throughput? Dec 08 18:12:29 trumee: but maybe some non wifi stuff is transmitting Dec 08 18:13:09 maybe bluetooth. i'ts a known wi-fi killer Dec 08 18:13:39 jacekowski: could be a possibiliy. i have a panasonic wireless phone. Is it possible to detect if that is a problem, 'objectively'. Dec 08 18:13:57 clasificado: no bluetooth is disabled. Dec 08 18:14:36 spectrum analyser Dec 08 18:14:52 Hey guys Dec 08 18:15:03 hi Dec 08 18:15:05 trumee, just did a SpeakEasy test on the wireless clients. Dec 08 18:15:14 trumee, got 40/5 here, so. ;) Dec 08 18:15:29 GAN900: Not a very thorough test i guess. Dec 08 18:15:38 trumee, unplug the phone? Dec 08 18:15:47 trumee, correlated pretty well. Dec 08 18:15:59 But a local network transfer would be better. Dec 08 18:16:01 GAN900: are there no proper software tools, how about this one, http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider Dec 08 18:16:19 I don't know offhand what the best way to go about that would be, though. Dec 08 18:17:15 ... There ARE "some" people who own an n900 here i heard ... :) Dec 08 18:17:41 Really? where? Dec 08 18:17:51 those people are dangerous. Run! hide! Dec 08 18:17:53 :p Dec 08 18:17:53 there -> Dec 08 18:17:58 _o/ Dec 08 18:18:06 :) Dec 08 18:18:10 \o_ Dec 08 18:18:20 trumee: you can either get proper spectrum analyser Dec 08 18:18:22 trumee: rent one Dec 08 18:18:31 trumee: or buy cheap wifi only spectrum analyser Dec 08 18:18:41 you can rent spectrum analysers?????? Dec 08 18:18:52 What for? Dec 08 18:19:09 Ahem Dec 08 18:19:13 :) Dec 08 18:19:21 jacekowski: i see Dec 08 18:19:30 chx: yes Dec 08 18:19:45 chx: not many people need one every day Dec 08 18:19:51 of course Dec 08 18:20:05 chx: and not many people can afford spectrum analyser that can go to 2.4 or even 5GHz Dec 08 18:20:15 because that sort of thing cost like 10k+ Dec 08 18:20:48 not really Dec 08 18:20:54 Is there such a poor person who had a broken micro-usb-port on their n900 ??? Dec 08 18:21:07 nope Dec 08 18:21:07 the forum is full of them Dec 08 18:21:12 SpeedEvil: more? Dec 08 18:21:17 ?? Dec 08 18:21:18 http://www.metageek.net/products/wi-spy Dec 08 18:21:23 Funny ?? Dec 08 18:21:28 SpeedEvil: but that's wifi only Dec 08 18:21:29 but I have one that has broken touchscreen and keyboard :( Dec 08 18:21:45 jacekowski: It's the wifi wavebands Dec 08 18:21:47 jacekowski: even the thinkgeek wi-spy 2.4i is a hundred bucks :( Dec 08 18:21:48 SpeedEvil: and it's not proper full DFT spectrum analyser Dec 08 18:22:00 but that's ok for testing Dec 08 18:22:20 jacekowski: It does reasonable frequency bins over those wavebands. It's not a lab quality instrument - no. Dec 08 18:24:00 Im sorry but there are over 400 people inthis room ! Is someone there who atleast heard of this problem? ... Dec 08 18:24:22 N900 > broken micro-usb-port Dec 08 18:24:28 yes Dec 08 18:24:30 many people Dec 08 18:24:33 it's warranty issue Dec 08 18:24:37 get it fixed Dec 08 18:24:41 Yes, several people have heard of it. Dec 08 18:24:48 Okok Dec 08 18:24:56 Is there a way Dec 08 18:25:13 yes, it's called warranty Dec 08 18:25:13 To boot or reflash over microsdcart ? Dec 08 18:25:16 fladnag: Where in the world are you? Dec 08 18:25:20 no Dec 08 18:25:35 Germany Dec 08 18:25:42 Realy? Dec 08 18:25:51 really Dec 08 18:25:58 Its NOT possible? Dec 08 18:26:05 yep Dec 08 18:26:12 N900 Sdcart flash ? Dec 08 18:26:16 impossible Dec 08 18:26:18 Ohholyshit Dec 08 18:26:40 And you are that experienced Dec 08 18:26:51 Sorri :) ? Dec 08 18:27:16 iirc boot sequence goes like serial->usb->nand Dec 08 18:27:21 fladnag: It is in principle possible to setup the software to do flash from SD - but you would need to reflash it via USB first though. Dec 08 18:27:56 Yeah - or using the nokia largely unavailable adaptor to serial. Dec 08 18:28:43 Adaptor ? Dec 08 18:28:46 Serial ? Dec 08 18:28:50 :) Dec 08 18:28:52 google Dec 08 18:29:11 What port ? Micro sd, micro usb, tvout ! Dec 08 18:29:20 even my sister knows what is it Dec 08 18:29:20 There is more ?????? Dec 08 18:29:23 yes Dec 08 18:29:24 N900 ????? Dec 08 18:29:27 yes Dec 08 18:29:40 Ok Dec 08 18:38:43 how do i get root in a .sh file? :/ Dec 08 18:39:00 trx: you should use sudo Dec 08 18:39:46 i tried sudo gainroot Dec 08 18:39:54 but it just stands there Dec 08 18:40:03 doesnt execute the other lines :/ Dec 08 18:40:25 tried root also Dec 08 18:41:05 Hello ! :) Doyouknow the psw thats always there when i write "sudo su" since i reflashed to 1.3 ??? Dec 08 18:41:09 sudo Dec 08 18:41:17 (n900) Dec 08 18:41:44 Sudo ??? :) The psw is also "sudo" ??? Dec 08 18:41:58 install rootsh Dec 08 18:42:05 Ihave Dec 08 18:42:22 type root then Dec 08 18:42:58 Sudo su - Dec 08 18:43:03 Psw ??? Dec 08 18:43:11 just type root Dec 08 18:43:17 fladnag: Maybe you set a password for the user account? Dec 08 18:43:41 or to reform my question, how can i run a .sh with root access? Dec 08 18:43:47 I DINT !!! :) Dec 08 18:44:03 trx, sudo Dec 08 18:44:07 fladnag if you have rootsh just type "root" Dec 08 18:44:09 type root Dec 08 18:44:11 Icant get out ofthe password question Dec 08 18:44:22 :P Dec 08 18:44:29 :( Dec 08 18:44:47 Press enter to end the sudo password prompt. Dec 08 18:44:56 ctrl+c Dec 08 18:45:25 MohammadAG sudo then i get prompted for a password Dec 08 18:46:16 trx add a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ Dec 08 18:47:25 MohammadAG oh, i see now Dec 08 18:47:27 thank you Dec 08 18:47:49 jenskuehnel, wtf are you on about? Dec 08 18:48:50 trx, run update-sudoers afterwards Dec 08 18:51:22 ty Dec 08 19:06:11 Wtf why is such a big company like nokia so incompetent ? why is there no ordinary charge-port on the n900 and why does the comunty has to build something like h-e-n ... Dec 08 19:06:24 Whattheshitfuck :) Dec 08 19:06:38 The USB port to charge is mandated by EU/... Dec 08 19:06:56 It's not a wholly bad idea. Dec 08 19:07:09 fladnag, you have answered your own question Dec 08 19:07:13 "such a big company" Dec 08 19:07:44 If it breakes out you are totaly screwsd Dec 08 19:07:58 .... Dec 08 19:08:04 Aaaaarrrr Dec 08 19:08:23 I need those external chargers Dec 08 19:08:51 And i need to set reflashing to sdcard !!!!!!! Dec 08 19:08:54 MohammadAG: sitrep Dec 08 19:13:13 Speedevil : "set up the software" to reflash from micro-sd card ?? Please where can i find something about this special sort of stuff Dec 08 19:13:37 What software ??? Onthe n900 ??? Dec 08 19:13:45 fladnag: You would need to find or compile a suitable bootloader, then flash it using USB Dec 08 19:13:55 Which obviously raises a problem Dec 08 19:14:08 Jes ? Dec 08 19:14:21 Problem? Dec 08 19:14:25 :) Dec 08 19:14:37 If your USB port is broken, you can't. Dec 08 19:14:48 Okok Dec 08 19:14:53 Thing is Dec 08 19:15:04 Im planing for the future Dec 08 19:15:07 crashanddie_, nothing worth reporting atm, looking at mafw docs, unless someone else wants to cover that Dec 08 19:15:19 :) IN CASE Dec 08 19:15:31 Ah. Dec 08 19:15:33 MohammadAG: well, dump interesting stuff in the gitorious wiki if required Dec 08 19:15:49 MohammadAG: maybe drop some notes about how you would see it implemented Dec 08 19:16:00 has anyone had thought about the backend architecture yet? Dec 08 19:16:09 s/had // Dec 08 19:16:09 I'm not aware of anythng that will simply let you reflash maemo images from the SD yet Dec 08 19:16:10 crashanddie_ meant: has anyone thought about the backend architecture yet? Dec 08 19:17:53 problem with flashing from device, is that flashing is handled by NOLO, and you can't have NOLO and an alternative OS at the same time Dec 08 19:18:47 I just have maemo (5) iguess ... Dec 08 19:19:23 So there is no alternative there (and none on the sdcard) Dec 08 19:19:31 ..! Dec 08 19:19:44 Still not possible ? Dec 08 19:20:44 And nolo is the "software" which runs FROM the device while flashing ? Dec 08 19:20:50 ?? Dec 08 19:21:33 For ALL maemo devices ?? Dec 08 19:23:42 And there IS another port on the n900 except video/audio and the damn micro-usb ??? Dec 08 19:24:04 How is it called ? Where isit? Dec 08 19:24:51 fladnag: yes, there are vatious poorly/non-documented ports under the battery Dec 08 19:25:14 :o Dec 08 19:26:06 How and it wat ways can they be accessed Dec 08 19:26:39 And in which ways ? :p Dec 08 19:27:58 Douyouknow a page that can help me soidont have to got obyour nerves anymore Dec 08 19:28:29 Sorri forthebad writing ... Dec 08 19:28:34 I just have maemo (5) iguess ... Dec 08 19:28:36 So there is no alternative there (and none on the sdcard) Dec 08 19:28:38 i have installed smscon on my n900 and config it with smscon editor. but when i send a command to my phone nothing happens? and smscon is running... somebody who maby know what i have done wrong or not done? Dec 08 19:28:51 by alternatives, I mean Ubuntu/Fedora/some console only OS Dec 08 19:28:57 NOLO is the bootloader Dec 08 19:29:28 SMScon, I lost 50 SMSs cause of that thing Dec 08 19:30:10 hehe Dec 08 19:30:56 when i run the tests in smscon editor it works nice, but not when i send the command thru my girlfriends phone Dec 08 19:30:59 Ok do you have an idea mohammadag ? Dec 08 19:31:26 its just to install, and then edit with smsconeditor? right? Dec 08 19:31:27 (about my reflash n900 from sd thing) Dec 08 19:34:02 other than using some mtd utilities to write to the mtds directly (and in a clean(!!!) way), nope Dec 08 19:34:37 Is GOject usable in Qt apps? Dec 08 19:36:04 http://linux.die.net/man/3/memfrob Dec 08 19:36:10 MohammadAG: it is, but is is a dependency hellhole Dec 08 19:36:14 MohammadAG: is GObject usable? Dec 08 19:38:22 crashanddie_, so... I can't use mafw in Qt? Dec 08 19:48:27 MohammadAG: no idea. I think Jaffa or lardman have some experiences trying to use GObjects in Qt C++ Dec 08 19:51:25 dont know about qt and c++ Dec 08 19:51:53 but i used GObjects in lazarus (compiled for maemo arm) Dec 08 19:51:59 they are in glib2 Dec 08 19:52:06 if thats what u need Dec 08 20:12:17 crashanddie_, I was bored, so file listing's working with QDir, however, I doubt this'll be of much help if we use mafw, anyways, http://i55.tinypic.com/28iatsn.jpg Dec 08 20:12:47 MohammadAG: hear that sound? Dec 08 20:13:09 MohammadAG: that's the RIAA Police coming to get you as you publicly demonstrate you own mp3 files Dec 08 20:13:31 MohammadAG: from what I understand MAFW provides file handling, doesn't it? Dec 08 20:13:38 this is logged right? The MP3s were illegally obtained Dec 08 20:13:43 * MohammadAG waits Dec 08 20:13:55 is it possible to test a Qt app for maemo under OSX? Dec 08 20:14:10 or run it locally Dec 08 20:14:38 locally? Dec 08 20:14:46 well, not on the n900 Dec 08 20:15:12 The whole point of Qt is that, http://i53.tinypic.com/2lvo8h.jpg Dec 08 20:15:46 Volume icon's missing on my PC, hence the empty button Dec 08 20:17:00 and that's just Qt Creator? Dec 08 20:17:58 yes Dec 08 20:18:04 hmm Dec 08 20:18:13 the Maemo specific code is wrapped with #ifdefs Dec 08 20:18:22 so it compiles properly on any PC with libqt4-dev Dec 08 20:18:26 at least for now Dec 08 20:18:47 mind you, I don't think there's something like stacked windows on ubuntu, so all windows are separate Dec 08 20:18:55 (See task bar) Dec 08 20:19:15 there is actually, stacked windows work fine, probably a bug in Qt Creator Dec 08 20:19:31 no, I never set a property Dec 08 20:20:00 oh, sorry, media player you mean? Dec 08 20:20:16 that's normal, it's maemo-specific behaviour Dec 08 20:20:17 yeah Dec 08 20:20:21 I only set setAttribute(Qt::WA_Maemo5StackedWindow); Dec 08 20:20:37 usually you'd redraw the UI on a fast computer Dec 08 20:20:38 I've never seen an app with stacked windows on a PC Dec 08 20:20:50 or make a window appear Dec 08 20:21:26 MohammadAG: can you add some wrappers around the UI, so that the player thread will be able to update it easily? Dec 08 20:21:30 well, it shows windows atm Dec 08 20:21:47 crashanddie_, hmm? Dec 08 20:21:49 oh Dec 08 20:22:00 I wanted to start on that today Dec 08 20:22:02 void NowPlayingWindow::onMetadataChanged() Dec 08 20:22:30 class song { QString title; QString artist; int duration }; and then on your UI .setCurrentSong(song currentSong) Dec 08 20:23:08 hmm Dec 08 20:23:12 * MohammadAG hits a wall Dec 08 20:23:18 what wall? Dec 08 20:23:24 alterego, I thought you mentioned clickable QLabels yesterday? Dec 08 20:23:39 QLabels don't emit signals when clicked Dec 08 20:24:17 MohammadAG: linkActivated Dec 08 20:24:49 MohammadAG: or linkHovered Dec 08 20:25:29 that's for QLabels with links afaik Dec 08 20:25:49 This signal is emitted when the user clicks a link. The URL referred to by the anchor is passed in link. Dec 08 20:26:15 I just started the download for the Qt SDK Dec 08 20:26:36 download speed is abyssmal Dec 08 20:26:41 50KB/s Dec 08 20:27:08 far cry from the 2MB/s I get from sourceforge or stuff Dec 08 20:27:27 lmao Dec 08 20:27:31 well Dec 08 20:27:42 you could download the mac only one, but you can't build for maemo that way Dec 08 20:27:58 I think I'm getting the Mac only one Dec 08 20:28:03 where is the maemo one too? Dec 08 20:28:59 is the full one for all platforms? 900MB? Dec 08 20:29:00 i hate all qgil speeches Dec 08 20:29:01 http://nds2.fds-forum.nokia.com/fdp/interface?fid=A1A1GUYLHDEW&st=TPiW5C7shQj3ff1182a1485cf061ffbead79ce22cd1c80b428a8c1d626989f6704afb305ce0a0c6ff2da5370fbd1b8fdd8be0c55a47623bb79fa199105e51ef4e6ca15be1aa34892a7b0fa5c770656a4f65704dda694c0262a7aa702d7d4394fa96203fe952e45f0b9db60b511800284cf30c2c8e0a4df983de5e6077737bd3426e66a9c30faf18ebcb3b8b37c9ab389511183a0a17a1804fb69896cd11c142d7d9745e9be24962d7e5394616cfb&lid=FN Dec 08 20:29:04 ffs Nokia Dec 08 20:29:10 nice Dec 08 20:29:13 crashanddie, MohammadAG hey Dec 08 20:29:13 use shorter links Dec 08 20:29:38 hey ZogG Dec 08 20:29:57 * NooBmonk3y prods MohammadAG Dec 08 20:30:01 eveeeeeeeenin Dec 08 20:30:15 MohammadAG: add an eventFilter or inherit and implement the button press event method. Dec 08 20:30:40 Not everything in Qt is signals & slots ;) Dec 08 20:30:51 * MohammadAG stabs Qt Dec 08 20:31:32 MohammadAG: oh c'mon Dec 08 20:31:37 MohammadAG: that link isn't too long Dec 08 20:31:43 I mean, they need the placeholders... Dec 08 20:32:11 If you look at it... they're just using 348 characters with an enthropy of 62 characters Dec 08 20:32:20 that's just what... 35532923950314040371555233996418615656447617690238539146959371986022792206109678041799221488951283425582368554579803649017449976541515788402769950908636090777205360942168155648586474173300819726209681126039184510259985831643477341306518809198263784101496089352281596201953796059875051696372027610327966734540107252024900186875743088800481127980217988171608446445416342510149241532365371062218047151691422639690 Dec 08 20:32:32 possible links? Dec 08 20:35:16 MohammadAG: can't blame them for being future-proof? Dec 08 20:35:19 crashanddie_, way over my head :P Dec 08 20:35:29 MohammadAG: err, was that link an "auto download SDK .dmg" ? Dec 08 20:35:43 because i have a random thing which is forcing me to download a 1/2 gb Qt SDK DMG Dec 08 20:35:48 * timeless_webchat is not amused Dec 08 20:36:22 yes, it's a .dmg Dec 08 20:36:25 when will people learn, don't click on fucking links Dec 08 20:36:57 MohammadAG: and that's for Maemo too? Dec 08 20:37:10 how come the beta is smaller than the full Qt download? Dec 08 20:37:11 crashanddie_: it's supposed to be Dec 08 20:37:25 crashanddie_: it probably doesn't have symbols :) Dec 08 20:37:31 symbols? Dec 08 20:37:34 no idea lol Dec 08 20:37:39 or maybe it's a web installer :) Dec 08 20:37:39 but yes, it has maemo afaik Dec 08 20:37:48 unless it downloads them in-setup Dec 08 20:38:10 nope, offline installer Dec 08 20:38:13 should have maemo Dec 08 20:38:16 well, this server is better Dec 08 20:38:19 85KB/s Dec 08 20:38:32 you'd think Nokia is able to afford some bandwidth Dec 08 20:38:32 hah Dec 08 20:38:51 * timeless_webchat is getting 1.3M/s Dec 08 20:39:06 you're clearly not located in the right country ;-) Dec 08 20:39:07 I don't bother with the Qt SDK, I custom build my entire development system. Dec 08 20:39:10 STOP STEALING MY BANDWIDTH Dec 08 20:39:19 alterego: on OSX? Dec 08 20:39:29 alterego, I still use scratchbox for most stuff :P Dec 08 20:39:40 crashanddie_: i'll be done in a minute :) Dec 08 20:39:48 I just dont understand why Nokia does not give up on smartphones. They are good at pushing out mid and low end devices ... so why not stick to it. Dec 08 20:40:06 chx: you must be new here Dec 08 20:40:18 chx: because at some point the smartphones of today will be able to sell at the price points nokia is selling feature phones at Dec 08 20:40:24 at which point nokia would die Dec 08 20:40:39 because nokia is still nokia Dec 08 20:40:41 but, crashanddie_ is right... you must be new here Dec 08 20:40:47 and still makes FUCKING AWESOME devices Dec 08 20:40:52 crashanddie_: ok, you can have my bandwidth now :) Dec 08 20:41:02 lol... it's actually going up Dec 08 20:41:03 WITH FUCKING RETARDED source distribution Dec 08 20:41:14 I use madde & qt creator for most things, then prep in sbox for extras upload. Dec 08 20:41:15 oh, going back down again Dec 08 20:41:42 Though I've integrated sbox with qt creator, which lets me build and run in sbox. Dec 08 20:41:55 Which is good for maemo specific development. Dec 08 20:42:08 i have the n900, of course, and what goes on with nokia just pains me. Dec 08 20:42:14 crashanddie_: no, not for os x :P Dec 08 20:42:35 when i lost my n810 i felt like having one of arms lost so i bought a second quick :) Dec 08 20:42:49 which now just gathers dust :/ Dec 08 20:47:10 I wish my N810 still worked Dec 08 20:47:18 The touch screen died. Dec 08 20:48:07 n810s are expensive too for some reason Dec 08 20:48:20 I wish I had an N810 Dec 08 20:48:52 * MohammadAG sighs at Segmentation fault Dec 08 20:49:32 alterego, hide() doesn't work layouts? Sigh Dec 08 20:54:27 MohammadAG: what about i give you mine? where are you located (just because of postage) Dec 08 20:55:08 chx: where are you? Dec 08 20:55:11 nah, no need, thanks though :) Dec 08 20:55:18 Right here , behind my desk. Dec 08 20:55:48 are you being a smartass? Dec 08 20:55:55 Geographically speaking, chx, where is your desk? Dec 08 20:55:59 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=beach+and+chilco&sll=49.289448,-123.14395&sspn=0.014205,0.031693&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Beach+Ave+%26+Chilco+St,+Vancouver,+Greater+Vancouver+Regional+District,+British+Columbia,+Canada&z=17 Dec 08 20:56:11 Canada, fair enough Dec 08 20:56:36 well, there's pretty much a planet between you and MohammadAG Dec 08 20:56:58 I often happen to be in Europe if that helps Dec 08 20:57:09 I will be in Hungary and Belgium Jan / Feb Dec 08 20:57:24 Belgium? Whereabouts? Dec 08 20:58:50 Vrije Universiteit Brussel Dec 08 20:59:14 so you're a brusselaer? Dec 08 20:59:17 same time as FOSDEM Dec 08 20:59:25 no, i am Canadian now Dec 08 20:59:31 just travel a lot. Dec 08 20:59:36 now being the operative word Dec 08 20:59:36 probably... too much :) Dec 08 21:00:00 well, i was Hungarian for 31 years then homeless for two then Canadian Dec 08 21:00:30 or what do you call when someone lives out of two suitcases for two years changing his 'home base' every 2-3 weeks? Dec 08 21:02:17 well, when I did that, I was a consultant Dec 08 21:02:33 I used to just say I was "European" Dec 08 21:05:42 crashanddie_, http://i52.tinypic.com/4r738n.jpg Dec 08 21:06:08 Aren't you usually whatever you were born and raised as? Dec 08 21:06:30 GAN900: AFAICT, I was born in Europe, and raised speaking 3 languages Dec 08 21:06:41 Weirdo. Dec 08 21:06:48 yeah, I get that a lot Dec 08 21:07:01 crashanddie_, and when you cheat, you get something like http://i56.tinypic.com/dh67n5.jpg Dec 08 21:07:02 crashanddie_: which 3 languages were they? Dec 08 21:07:26 mikki-kun: french english dutch, though I have a fair understanding of german, italian and spanish as well. Dec 08 21:08:28 Ö.ö whoah, that is... how can you keep them apart? i have sometimes difficulties with my 3 languages (now there is swiss german coming, which reactivates some of my french) Dec 08 21:09:18 * MohammadAG knows English, arabic, french, hebrew, and some russian swear words Dec 08 21:09:21 oh, I have loads of troubles in some languages, don't worry there Dec 08 21:09:29 you know fuck all French bro Dec 08 21:09:48 crashanddie_, did you see the damn portrait UI? Dec 08 21:09:53 I did Dec 08 21:10:12 don't put the icons near the bottom Dec 08 21:10:12 that's the sitrep you asked for :P Dec 08 21:10:18 put them vertical Dec 08 21:10:34 hmm Dec 08 21:10:57 put them left or right, doesn't really matter, preferably a configuration option Dec 08 21:11:18 when I hold my N900 in portrait, I rarely have both thumbs, and neither can reach down there easily Dec 08 21:12:09 hmm, top might be best, but I'm not sure how to arrange layouts in code :/ Dec 08 21:12:43 actually, there's better than fixed buttons Dec 08 21:12:56 image a central button, in the middle of the screen Dec 08 21:13:09 if you just tap it, it pauses Dec 08 21:13:22 if you hold it and go left, it goes to the beginning of the song Dec 08 21:13:38 and the button becomes a |< (go back) ubtton Dec 08 21:13:45 so that you can tap it and go back in your playlist Dec 08 21:14:17 if you hold it and go right, it jumps to the next song, and becomes a >| button (forward) Dec 08 21:14:24 nice idea, not very stock-y, still, nice Dec 08 21:14:26 not sure if that should be part of V1 Dec 08 21:14:31 yeah Dec 08 21:16:35 * MohammadAG wonders why building Qt apps in scratchbox makes them smaller Dec 08 21:16:47 smaller? Dec 08 21:16:55 xVST: 1-2MBs in scratchbox, 26MBs in Qt Creator Dec 08 21:17:06 oh, debug symbols probably Dec 08 21:17:16 that's usually what takes most space Dec 08 21:17:17 oh, right Dec 08 21:19:21 crashanddie_, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer run that on your device Dec 08 21:19:30 don't have my device Dec 08 21:19:35 my device is in new york or something Dec 08 21:21:07 I'm good with SSH, but still. Dec 08 21:21:11 o_O Dec 08 21:21:20 riight Dec 08 21:21:22 brb Dec 08 21:41:39 XChat works pretty well in portrait. Dec 08 21:41:50 pray tell Dec 08 21:41:54 or, pray screenshot Dec 08 21:42:43 crashanddie, ctrl-shft-r Dec 08 21:42:51 Close keyboard, rotate Dec 08 21:43:26 read above Dec 08 21:43:35 < crashanddie_> my device is in new york or something Dec 08 21:44:07 cept when you have a userlist Dec 08 21:44:24 it resizes incorrectly Dec 08 21:45:20 MohammadAG do you need testers for mediaplayer? Dec 08 21:45:35 trx: there's no actual code behind it as of yet Dec 08 21:46:00 trx: we're still trying to figure out the architecture that could be used Dec 08 21:46:08 i see Dec 08 21:46:18 i would like to help Dec 08 21:46:25 What are you good at? Dec 08 21:46:26 but i only know pascal Dec 08 21:46:36 heh Dec 08 21:46:52 If I see him I'll yell? Dec 08 21:46:55 lazarus compiles for arm Dec 08 21:47:09 but thats of no use for you Dec 08 21:47:14 :/ Dec 08 21:47:57 btw, have you considered using bass for audio engine? Dec 08 21:48:13 crashanddie_, what if Nokia releases their source when we finish ours? Dec 08 21:48:35 MohammadAG: ours will be Qt, theirs will be Gtk? Dec 08 21:48:39 We'll be MeeGo-proof? Dec 08 21:49:38 trx: bass seems interesting Dec 08 21:49:59 it can read/do pretty much everything Dec 08 21:50:55 crashanddie_, well, you suck. Dec 08 21:51:03 i have experience with it, and could help out.. Dec 08 21:51:12 GAN900: stop being a fucking troll. Dec 08 21:52:28 crashanddie_, yessir. Dec 08 21:52:34 hmm, 32gb micro sd no-name card for $50 - you think it's a good deal or will the card be really shitty (like slow as hell)? Dec 08 21:52:53 i have no idea about price ranges here Dec 08 21:53:02 trx: well, we don't want to reinvent the wheel if possible, and there should be MAFW available Dec 08 21:53:12 lcuk: have you used GObjects in Qt code? Dec 08 21:54:07 trx: the other thing is that the backend player system will probably leverage gstreamer rather than a new framework -- the reasoning behind this is that there are plugins that can utilise the hardware acceleration chipsets available in the N900. Dec 08 21:54:40 god damn, I even sound like a fucking suit. Dec 08 21:54:48 :)) Dec 08 21:55:05 yeah, its seems more logical to use mafw then Dec 08 21:55:23 trx: it's just our initial analysis, we'll see and make decisions as we get closer Dec 08 21:55:34 trx: the project was launched this morning/afternoon. Dec 08 21:55:45 or was it yesterday? Dec 08 21:55:47 I forget. Dec 08 21:56:15 yesterday evening; total works is maybe 2h Dec 08 21:56:24 sorry, exams :P Dec 08 21:56:26 well, if i can help with anything im here... Dec 08 21:56:42 just no qt and c++ :P Dec 08 21:57:57 crashanddie_, we could use Qt's APIs, they use gstreamer (Jaffa said so), but we'll have to build our own media indexer Dec 08 21:57:57 maybe i can help by producing .so's that u can use... Dec 08 21:58:19 crashanddie_, what skills are you bringing to the tablet? Dec 08 21:58:34 GAN900: at the moment? Telling people what to do Dec 08 21:58:49 MohammadAG: so we have to go through MAFW to do the indexing? Dec 08 21:59:08 or directly use tracker Dec 08 21:59:10 s/do the indexing/talk to tracker/ Dec 08 21:59:10 crashanddie_ meant: MohammadAG: so we have to go through MAFW to talk to tracker? Dec 08 21:59:44 hmm, another thing, anyone using a 32gb microsd card with n900? Dec 08 21:59:47 never looked at tracker's code, but I think it can be talked to directly Dec 08 22:00:05 mind you, mafw > Qt's APIs at this time of writing Dec 08 22:01:41 what does MAFW provide, really? Dec 08 22:01:50 Looking at the garage project didn't provide a whole lot of details Dec 08 22:01:55 other than "Code moved to Gnome" Dec 08 22:02:57 better integration with maemo, for a start Dec 08 22:03:54 and? Dec 08 22:04:23 we don't break half the apps using mafw Dec 08 22:04:51 not using MAFW would break apps? Dec 08 22:05:12 would make them disfunctional Dec 08 22:05:32 nicolai's home applet, alterego's IM updater etc Dec 08 22:07:03 no crashanddie_ Dec 08 22:08:19 crashanddie_, what are you using them for Dec 08 22:09:03 hmm Dec 08 22:09:15 fair enough MohammadAG, didn't know MAFW provided that kind of interface too Dec 08 22:09:18 lcuk, you missed the project? Dec 08 22:09:25 no he didn't, he's avoiding it. Dec 08 22:09:59 * lcuk not avoiding Dec 08 22:10:06 just letting it take shape as required :P Dec 08 22:10:20 see what things work and dont work seems to be going well Dec 08 22:13:28 last day I watched dbus while selecting some media in player. WOW what a funny SQL statement (though tracker's name for it is different) Dec 08 22:13:58 so much for 'talking directly to tracker' - seems even mediaplayer does it Dec 08 22:16:28 i'm off, night Dec 08 22:16:41 night mo Dec 08 22:16:45 MohammadAG: thanks a lot Dec 08 22:17:05 crashanddie_, for what? you're welcome though :P Dec 08 22:17:16 for putting time in on this Dec 08 22:17:52 well, it's either this or wasting time on something else, prolly less useful, like rock band Dec 08 22:21:57 red drumset Dec 08 22:26:19 nice Dec 08 22:26:39 honestly, worrying about tracker should be at very bottom of your todo list, when cloning mediaplayer. First have a decent file selector for accessing media via path, then have proper management of playlists, as in insert/delete/swap/stop-after/fade-over. Then use tracker to augment info/detail for media *files* with ID3 and other things, and finally you can have a sort order based on tracker solely - as an alternative to path&fs based sort. Dec 08 22:28:08 yeah, but no Dec 08 22:28:30 I get your point, and it would indeed be interesting to have a nice PoC running Dec 08 22:28:37 just port amarok 1.4 to n900 Dec 08 22:28:42 as a rule of thumb, if mediaplayer doesn't work or becomes unusable on a system where tracker got deinstalled, you severely messed it up Dec 08 22:29:09 well, you need list of all files Dec 08 22:29:16 jacekowski: ++ Dec 08 22:29:37 and traversing file system every time you want to add something to playlist isn't going to work Dec 08 22:29:47 adding directly from fs is not the best way Dec 08 22:30:03 jacekowski: duh, why? Dec 08 22:30:15 BS it's the only way Dec 08 22:30:16 no id3 Dec 08 22:30:23 wut? Dec 08 22:30:29 so what? none of my media has ID3 Dec 08 22:30:40 all my media has id3 Dec 08 22:30:50 I'm not interested in that Dec 08 22:30:57 and i can only find it by id3 Dec 08 22:31:01 or by querying a db Dec 08 22:31:06 ok, so what? Dec 08 22:31:14 except, jacekowski and DocScrutinizer, we're not writing shit just for your use cases Dec 08 22:31:39 that's the rationale why nobody may get a proper fileselector to get access to their id3-free media???? Dec 08 22:31:43 so stop being donkeys and keep the critics to a minimum, unless you really see us going awry Dec 08 22:32:00 nah, file selector should be an option Dec 08 22:32:12 but tracker based stuff should be a base Dec 08 22:32:17 with better tracker Dec 08 22:32:21 BS Dec 08 22:32:42 guys, the way I see it, it'll be pluggable Dec 08 22:32:47 as a rule of thumb, if mediaplayer doesn't work or becomes unusable on a system where tracker got deinstalled, you severely messed it up Dec 08 22:32:51 DocScrutinizer, come on, you are but one person, blended approach, lots of people like their catalogued media Dec 08 22:32:56 if a tracker with a db is available, we'll use it, and you'll be able to manually manage your shit Dec 08 22:33:15 if no tracker is available, you'll manage your shit manually Dec 08 22:33:21 i don't and tend to like folders personally, but that shouldnt prevent it working from a proper catalogue Dec 08 22:33:24 (by telling it which directories to watch, etc) Dec 08 22:33:34 I use both tbh Dec 08 22:33:40 directories and ID3 Dec 08 22:33:52 cuz I like the information, but I also listen to stuff on the command line Dec 08 22:33:59 crashanddie_: me too Dec 08 22:34:19 well technically if the db retained path (I think it does) Dec 08 22:34:30 then it just becomes another bit of info in the database Dec 08 22:34:37 crashanddie_: well but telling it what directories to watch == making your own implementation of tracker Dec 08 22:34:46 no Dec 08 22:35:06 cuz giving it a directory is an instant playlist Dec 08 22:35:13 but that's not the point about proper system architecture has nothing to deal with making tracker a mandatory base technology for your app, without any justification Dec 08 22:35:21 scanning a folder full of music on desktop in realtime is reasonable thing to do on desktop Dec 08 22:35:31 DocScrutinizer: we're not making tracker mandatory Dec 08 22:35:38 DocScrutinizer: I don't know where you read that Dec 08 22:35:40 scanning same folder on n900 brings it to its knees Dec 08 22:35:52 [2010-12-08 23:32:00] but tracker based stuff should be a base Dec 08 22:36:02 [2010-12-08 23:31:48] nah, file selector should be an option Dec 08 22:36:02 lcuk: i've been told that the scanner was incredibly broken in the n900 stack Dec 08 22:36:11 so in theory a non broken scanner would be much better Dec 08 22:36:14 it needs to be the other way round Dec 08 22:36:17 lcuk: well, inotify would be so nice if it would work on umounted filesystems Dec 08 22:36:18 DocScrutinizer: yeah, and last I checked, jacekowski is about on the same level to this project as you are: badmouthing it. Dec 08 22:36:24 timeless_webchat, similar issue with image thumbnailing Dec 08 22:36:40 crashanddie_: what about mediabox? Dec 08 22:36:40 and thats got one of the most optimised jpeg libraries on the planet Dec 08 22:37:13 lcuk: doing an ls on a 50-file directory brings the N900 on its knees? Dec 08 22:37:27 no, but you just said you like id3 Dec 08 22:37:38 lcuk: you won't find me claiming the n900 impl of anything is good... Dec 08 22:37:40 well, yeah, ever heard of threading? Dec 08 22:37:41 grabbing that from the media as you show the album Dec 08 22:37:46 picasa otoh does give me media i can use Dec 08 22:37:51 and it does indexing Dec 08 22:37:53 lcuk: remember winamp 2? Dec 08 22:38:04 * timeless_webchat remembers winamp 1 Dec 08 22:38:33 lcuk: you gave it a big ass folder, it just displayed the filename.mp3 initially, you could select, start playing, etc... And then, in the background, slowly, it would load the id3 information Dec 08 22:38:44 of course crashanddie_ Dec 08 22:38:53 that's all I'm talking about Dec 08 22:38:59 i understand the principle Dec 08 22:39:03 but even with winamp Dec 08 22:39:11 i used to have to close everything to even play mp3 Dec 08 22:39:15 let alone catalogue it Dec 08 22:39:29 (early computer times Dec 08 22:39:33 pre ghx Dec 08 22:39:34 lcuk: I remember loading a 300+ list of songs on a amd k6-2 300Mhz Dec 08 22:39:39 ghz Dec 08 22:39:49 I'll be fucked if the N900 is slower than that Dec 08 22:40:19 agreed in principle Dec 08 22:40:30 canola managed very well without a catalogue afaik Dec 08 22:40:39 speaking of which.. Dec 08 22:40:53 gsoc this year was packaging canola for n900 Dec 08 22:40:54 this is not difficult stuff, this is delaying loading the first 500 bytes of an mp3 file Dec 08 22:41:01 crashanddie_: well, I see I can delegate to you to defend my point - cya, me off for RL Dec 08 22:41:37 I like releasing software Dec 08 22:42:13 DocScrutinizer: My package is adding an include and removing it when installed and removed to lircd.conf Dec 08 22:42:45 I'm also using update-sudoers as one of the commands I needed wasn't added lirc :/ Dec 08 22:42:52 +by Dec 08 22:44:40 If you or anyone else has a 360 I'd appreciate testers :) Dec 08 22:46:13 anyhow, bedtime g'night folks Dec 08 23:45:43 I don't know how people make at living of handyman-style IT. Dec 08 23:45:48 alterego, ok. Dec 08 23:46:06 GAN900: ? Dec 08 23:46:22 you don't see how much consultants get paid then :P Dec 08 23:46:35 Heh Dec 08 23:49:08 ieatlint, oh, I do, but I don't know that I could bring myself to charge for it. Dec 08 23:50:18 GAN900: why were you addressing me? :P Dec 08 23:51:17 * DocScrutinizer wonders wtf handyman-style might be Dec 08 23:51:52 i assume he means when a company hires a consultant for a very brief period, such as to aid in fixing shit, or a deployment, etc Dec 08 23:52:41 a lot will do that, as it's considered cheaper than retaining someone with a [alleged] high skill continuously, when only needed on rare occasion Dec 08 23:53:34 Still don't know what I have to do with this :P Dec 08 23:54:05 alterego: maybe ok == gnite Dec 08 23:54:44 Heh Dec 08 23:54:48 alterego: or he was merely pointing acceptance of your existence Dec 08 23:55:03 I couldn't sleep Dec 08 23:55:11 Yeah, he likes to tease Dec 08 23:57:00 sometimes gan's comments sound a bit sinusitisoid lately Dec 08 23:58:01 He's oscilating between here and MeeGo a lot Dec 08 23:58:11 At a seemingly low frequency too. Dec 08 23:58:15 ... like most of us. Dec 08 23:58:31 hmm, meego goes mostly unnoticed here Dec 08 23:58:50 seems useless effort to contribute over there Dec 08 23:58:58 I was checking the latest test results, I think 1.2 will be my switch over point. Dec 08 23:59:29 Probably before the release Dec 08 23:59:46 I reckon 2-3 months Dec 09 00:00:53 meh, meego will be nothing different to maemo. Wait til useable, then try to find out how it works, and RE stuff as nobody cared to document or share basic design rationale Dec 09 00:01:44 Actually it's mostly all there .. Dec 09 00:02:04 At least if you get involved now you can change things .. Dec 09 00:02:11 hahaha Dec 09 00:02:29 guys, N900 wifi chip support broadcom or atheros better? Dec 09 00:02:41 ???????? Dec 09 00:02:58 really? we already reached the point where crap is implemented and now us suckers are free to "contribute patches"? Dec 09 00:03:04 my wrt54gl got fried today. so i am getting an atheros based router. Dec 09 00:03:10 aaaaaaaaaa Dec 09 00:04:05 So you have issue with something specific in meego you think was designed poorly? Dec 09 00:04:14 ...and google for documentation about what the F*CK meego is actually doing under the hood Dec 09 00:04:29 bricked my router while patching openwrt on it. happy to see the sucker die. now i can get an atheros chipset and hopefully sip will perform better. Dec 09 00:04:44 alterego: actually, yes. The community design Dec 09 00:04:58 the TSG design Dec 09 00:05:05 the workflow design Dec 09 00:05:11 but i have heard that wifi chips like their own brands then they do others. Dec 09 00:05:32 hence was wondering about wifi chip in N900. Dec 09 00:05:55 Oh? Dec 09 00:06:13 Well, why don't you join in in the community office meetings? Dec 09 00:06:29 useless waste of time Dec 09 00:06:29 i remember there was some bug report about tplink not connecting. Dec 09 00:06:53 You seem to bitch more than proactivly participate :P Dec 09 00:07:07 * trumee finishes his monologue. Dec 09 00:07:13 I couldn't care less to bitch about it Dec 09 00:09:10 What is it you actually want then? Dec 09 00:09:23 In you perfect world :P Dec 09 00:10:24 what I want? Not hear any lame but-there's-meego excuses for anything here at maemo Dec 09 00:10:54 Riiiight Dec 09 00:11:17 That seems a bit pointless Dec 09 00:11:41 What's wrong with moving to MeeGo? Dec 09 00:11:54 well, one could dislike qt. Dec 09 00:12:10 If it ticks all the boxes you like in a mobile OS Dec 09 00:12:40 Sure, as lots I'm sure dislike glib,gobject,gtk Dec 09 00:12:43 since it is philosophizing time, I'm gonna throw in my fears Dec 09 00:13:24 Unless you're developing ... What do you care? :) Dec 09 00:13:40 for now maemo is more open and better documented than meego, and I don't see that change any time soon. Not to talk about quality of system design Dec 09 00:13:48 or maturity Dec 09 00:14:08 Maemo is not more open than meego Dec 09 00:14:20 hah Dec 09 00:14:26 when I ponder what attaches me to Maemo, I usually think people, hackability, and the fact that Maemo is the most desktop-like linux distro while still keeping reasonable usability. Dec 09 00:14:47 javispedro: ack Dec 09 00:14:57 WebOS also has (for me) people, hackability, but.. Dec 09 00:15:05 it is hardly the most desktop-like linux distro. Dec 09 00:15:15 custom window server, etc. Dec 09 00:15:18 where hackability is what I call "open in a sense of well understood and documented" Dec 09 00:15:30 The same people are developing MeeGo, they are using what they know to have worked with maemo there aswell, with hindsight .. Dec 09 00:15:43 hahaha Dec 09 00:16:11 like fuvar braindamaged lis302 mainstream driver, compared to rather nice maemo counterpart Dec 09 00:16:59 and my biggest fear is that right now Meego's "main toolkit" is a toolkit owned by Nokia itself. Dec 09 00:17:10 asking what'S the rationale to use a basically broken driver for accelerometer, A was: well it's upstream Dec 09 00:17:19 which might cause (in fact ALREADY causes) Meego to move away from being the most desktop-like. Dec 09 00:17:46 javispedro: how so? Dec 09 00:18:01 It's more desktop like than maemo Dec 09 00:18:14 if not in the ux in the core os .. Dec 09 00:18:22 the sad part is that I believe this is unavoidable, because nobody wants to move desktop linux these days Dec 09 00:19:04 alterego: did you miss the "Meego is a distro on itself" part? Dec 09 00:19:19 Q: and how's meego dealing with lis302 and other sensors? there's mce on maemo, you won't use that? A: no we use sensorfw, Q: where's that documented? A: google for it, noob. Maybe nowhere Dec 09 00:19:57 i think one of my biggest issues with meego right now is that the sdk is only supported on apt-get, and yum/zypper distributions Dec 09 00:20:10 whose brilliant idea was it to do that? Dec 09 00:20:28 ieatlint: what else would you install it on? :P Dec 09 00:20:49 sitting here on gentoo Dec 09 00:21:02 had no trouble installing maemo sdk, or for that matter meego 1.0 sdk Dec 09 00:21:04 basically, competition platforms don't seem so away now (they're also "custom linux distributions" running a toolkit owned by their parent companies) Dec 09 00:21:22 ergo: contributing to meego is futile effort for me. A bottomless timesink Dec 09 00:21:26 Not intel .. Dec 09 00:21:59 that's why I also sigh everytime I see yet another thing that potentially causes a X11 application not to run as is on any Meego UX :) Dec 09 00:22:12 Heh Dec 09 00:23:04 let's bring in the rotation example, as I have that one in mind Dec 09 00:23:21 So you're just going to sit here and do what exactly? Dec 09 00:23:23 handset uses its own rotation stuff instead of X11 one. Dec 09 00:23:29 And for how long? Dec 09 00:23:32 pros: nice rotation effect. Dec 09 00:23:37 cons: doesn't work with non Qt applications. Dec 09 00:24:08 that's a good point. Dec 09 00:24:17 how can I convince anyone on Meego I find this stupid? even I'm not sure I would want to throw nice rotation effect just to run SDL applications. Dec 09 00:24:37 Heh Dec 09 00:24:46 and unfortunately there is no sane way to do cool X11 rotation without SEVERE coding work on X11 itself. Dec 09 00:24:59 something that's out of my reach for plain time reasons. Dec 09 00:25:07 Yeah Dec 09 00:25:50 so I don't rant loudly, because I understand that Meego shipping with no iPhone-like rotation effect would doom Meego to certain failure... Dec 09 00:25:58 but yet I'm not easy about it. Dec 09 00:26:30 (now replace "rotation effect" with all the other problems, and you get the full picture) Dec 09 00:26:36 sensorfw seems pretty well documented to me, for a pre-release library ... Dec 09 00:26:53 yet another thing that's different from desktop linux. Dec 09 00:27:00 this time, because there's nothing equivalent on desktop linux. Dec 09 00:27:59 compiz? Dec 09 00:28:16 I meant sensorfw ;) Dec 09 00:28:38 sure, so? You don't need to use it in your apps :P Dec 09 00:29:07 but I want to. Dec 09 00:29:14 javispedro: full ack. The main goal in my book is "make any arbitrary app run on N900 with as little platform specific tweaking the code as possible". Meego TSG seems doesn't have this point *anywhere* on their aims list Dec 09 00:29:54 Why should that be a goal? Dec 09 00:30:21 Okay, they've sort of missed it completely with mtf, but still. Dec 09 00:30:33 alterego: if you don't see why, then probably it's a waste of time to discuss it with you Dec 09 00:30:48 We've never expected that from maemo .. Dec 09 00:30:59 Why do you expect it from meego? Dec 09 00:31:12 I expect that from every linux Dec 09 00:31:45 and meego seems to become a ""linux"" much like android is linux Dec 09 00:31:48 Well, you can, just don't expect it to be pretty ... Dec 09 00:31:55 Rubbish Dec 09 00:32:27 You can run what you want on meego, just don't expect it to iteract with the ux properly Dec 09 00:32:53 aah, you say they haven't messed up the CPU instruction set yet? Dec 09 00:33:20 We're moving to neon fp soonish Dec 09 00:33:22 DocScrutinizer: so you want even more badly-adapted apps for meego than there are for maemo? Dec 09 00:33:42 armv7hl Dec 09 00:33:57 DocScrutinizer: meego is going to be weird and nonstandard? Dec 09 00:34:05 Which will be a nice perf boost, something maemo will never have. Dec 09 00:34:08 the reason it's different-looking is because it's a different user interface model... would you dismiss a Linux made for a process-control environment because it couldn't run OpenOffice? Dec 09 00:34:44 I never thought desktop like meant what you think it does :P Dec 09 00:34:45 I'd happily accept a rot13'd API if it only meant that I could get good, well-adapted, well-integrated applications Dec 09 00:34:45 toresbe: you are free to adapt yur apps to any degree you like. I want to be free to take e.g. OOo and simply compile it and get a miniature desktop experience out of it, however unusable and bad it might be Dec 09 00:34:54 _why_? Dec 09 00:35:07 toresbe: and you're here and not on #iphone why? you quoted steve jobs. Dec 09 00:35:19 heh Dec 09 00:35:29 javispedro: I care about free, I don't care about "compatible with every single other free system" Dec 09 00:35:32 "I'd happily accept a flawed/reduced API if it only meant I could get good, well-integrated applications" Dec 09 00:35:45 Steve Jobs said THAT: Dec 09 00:36:10 toresbe: that's plain BS Dec 09 00:36:28 I don't want generic X applications running on my N900. I want a good N900 calendar. Dec 09 00:36:49 bah, can't find the quote quickly enough Dec 09 00:36:59 iPhone's API constraints is an important reason for why it's a better phone than the N900 in terms of the PIMey stuff. I'd be happy with a more specialized API, I just don't want a more _restricted phone_. Dec 09 00:37:01 toresbe: so go ahead and code it yourself Dec 09 00:37:11 from scratch Dec 09 00:37:31 as that's what you need to do when there's no compatibility to whatever has been there before Dec 09 00:37:37 DocScrutinizer: That's a weaselly argument and applies equally well to your own line of reasoning. It's on par with "if you like it so much why don't you go live there" Dec 09 00:37:55 DocScrutinizer: there's no need to code it, he will just use Meego ;) Dec 09 00:38:15 yeah, Nokia's meego flavour of calendar blob Dec 09 00:38:40 well, no calendar yet on Meego, but the reference handset one should be open Dec 09 00:38:43 as we all know maemo one was so great Dec 09 00:38:46 I don't want a blob, but I do want a calendar written for my telephone and not for my desktop and then shoehorned into my phone. Dec 09 00:38:53 wheter Nokia will use it or just distribute a blob "better" one... Dec 09 00:39:14 toresbe: you're no developer, are you? Dec 09 00:39:28 DocScrutinizer: Yes, I am. Dec 09 00:39:29 it is open, and uses kdes calndar backend Dec 09 00:39:39 oh, sorry for you then Dec 09 00:40:03 DocScrutinizer: Dude. Just because we disagree on something doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it. Dec 09 00:40:04 we should force something looking like orage Dec 09 00:40:14 DocScrutinizer: you can run desktop apps just like you can on maemo .. Dec 09 00:40:25 craply integrated without work. Dec 09 00:40:31 I don't want an iPhone-ey "this solution is what you will use and we know better". Nor do I want 10 different buggy one-person projects with truly horrifying UIs (the Spotifies for N900 spring to mind) Dec 09 00:40:51 I was thinking today though, after someone mentioning skype.. Dec 09 00:40:52 toresbe: but having none is unavoidable Dec 09 00:40:55 toresbe: you have to choose Dec 09 00:41:06 That along with flash we probably wont have skype either. Dec 09 00:41:13 toresbe: between "we know better, use this" and having a fragmented ecosystem. Dec 09 00:41:57 I want a fragmented ecosystem with good, standardized interfaces. :) Dec 09 00:42:12 fragmented implies buggy one-person projects Dec 09 00:42:29 Sure, but it doesn't imply that they will all be that way. Dec 09 00:42:35 someone will eventually want to use, I don't know, Brainfuck to code an application. Dec 09 00:42:38 n900 was the first 'ships with skype' mobilephone-computer-something so I guess skype will give a heads up for meego aswell Dec 09 00:42:54 javispedro: caldav! Dec 09 00:43:17 I completely agree with Steve Jobs on the argument of not installing Flash. 110%. Dec 09 00:43:19 chem|st: maybe Dec 09 00:43:26 pfft Dec 09 00:43:39 Why shouldn't we have it ... Dec 09 00:43:43 chem|st: caldav is coded using brainfuck? =) Dec 09 00:43:53 Well, for one thing, Flash can't do shit on my N900. Dec 09 00:43:57 alterego: if meego gets growing like they think it will skype will have their hand in game Dec 09 00:44:06 I've never seen a Flash app work satisfactorily on my device... Dec 09 00:44:13 toresbe: flash can't do shit anywhere Dec 09 00:44:16 chem|st: but probably not in obs :P Dec 09 00:44:28 Sure it can. Works nice on my desktop for the things open standards don't yet :) Dec 09 00:44:41 Meego will never have skype -- it's closed. Dec 09 00:44:54 and Skype is not going to add a freely redistributable clause for no reason. Dec 09 00:44:58 and will stay closed Dec 09 00:45:08 now, device X using Meego might or might not pay Skype royalties/whatever they demand. Dec 09 00:45:16 toresbe: I have a running 64bit linux and all I never got to work properly is java Dec 09 00:45:22 and crypted binary Dec 09 00:45:24 :-P Dec 09 00:45:28 javispedro: I was thinking under the same restrictions they ship their desktop version .. Dec 09 00:45:33 DocScrutinizer: "security framework" *shudders* Dec 09 00:45:41 yooohohohohho Dec 09 00:45:43 sp3000: so, hg qpop/pull/qpush seems to be a deathwish Dec 09 00:45:44 => panic Dec 09 00:45:44 brrrrrrrrrrr Dec 09 00:45:51 Much like in the world of politics, freedom is only a formality when you yourself cannot mobilize the resources to take advantage of them. Dec 09 00:46:14 anyhow bedtime g'night. Dec 09 00:46:15 I have no freedom to use Google Calendar with my N900 because I don't have the time and skill to write an integration that works. Dec 09 00:46:19 timeless_mbp: clearly you need something that works Dec 09 00:46:25 alterego: oh, *I'd wish* Meego would be able to convert the mobile application market into something vertical like the PC one. Dec 09 00:46:28 alterego: gnite. Dec 09 00:46:29 now that you've tried windows and mac, ... ;) Dec 09 00:46:39 BeOS? Dec 09 00:46:41 javispedro: me too ;) Dec 09 00:46:44 OpenVMS! Dec 09 00:46:55 I'm assuming you tried that already Dec 09 00:46:57 i have OS/2 install media somewhere Dec 09 00:46:59 timeless_mbp: BeOS works! Dec 09 00:47:01 HURD Dec 09 00:47:04 * BCMM_ ducks Dec 09 00:47:14 javispedro: I have a BeOS derivative too Dec 09 00:47:18 ducks sounds like a more plausible computing platform Dec 09 00:47:19 My VMS box doesn't. I powered it up the other day to counteract the effects of winter on my apartment. Dec 09 00:47:20 * sp3000 ducks Dec 09 00:47:38 I was a BeOS user before a Linux one. I think I still have GoBe Productive around =) Dec 09 00:47:48 nice Dec 09 00:47:51 I need to power up my IRIX box too, I'm freezing here Dec 09 00:47:56 heh Dec 09 00:48:04 irix boxes are good as space heaters Dec 09 00:48:14 indeed Dec 09 00:48:32 Actually I think I'll power up my PDP-11 instead. Dec 09 00:48:46 you have one of those too? Dec 09 00:48:50 several Dec 09 00:49:08 adding [ ] 43/2553 0h33m Dec 09 00:49:12 sp3000: =) Dec 09 00:49:13 four in my apartment Dec 09 00:49:17 adding [> ] 92/2553 0h22m Dec 09 00:49:25 * timeless_mbp is happy Dec 09 00:49:47 more in the basement, which is why my back hurts now. Dec 09 00:50:04 adding [==========> ] 527/2553 6m04s Dec 09 00:50:05 timeless_mbp: the first 11 minures were cheap eh Dec 09 00:50:09 yep Dec 09 00:50:17 but at least it's going the right way ;) Dec 09 00:50:18 clearly a slow start Dec 09 00:50:24 yeah... vbox was funny Dec 09 00:50:35 vbox was making progress but steadily adding time Dec 09 00:50:40 1s, 2.... 50 Dec 09 00:50:45 at around 50s it changed to 0min Dec 09 00:50:51 until it actually reached 1min Dec 09 00:50:52 so was the mac disk tool repair deal too fwiw Dec 09 00:50:55 then it started adding seconds Dec 09 00:51:00 lol Dec 09 00:51:05 nice Dec 09 00:51:09 adding [====================================> ] 1788/2553 1m09s Dec 09 00:51:15 it's ballistic estimation Dec 09 00:51:30 adding [============================================> ] 2145/2553 0m35s Dec 09 00:51:52 adding [==================================================> ] 2444/2553 0m10s Dec 09 00:52:39 sp3000: so Dec 09 00:52:44 toresbe: got 2 pdp11 at work and I would never ever think of taking one with me... Dec 09 00:52:47 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture is really poor. For meego I'd expect something much better, with more detail and more discussion leading to consensual decissions about each detail. Fact however is I've not seen anything like that yet for meego Dec 09 00:52:50 why would finnish captions translate 43 minutes into 45mins? Dec 09 00:53:13 does finnish as a language not support minutes in units that are not multiples of 5? Dec 09 00:53:24 file a bug. Dec 09 00:53:37 well, check the grammar. I guess you can find it in EBNF format around. Dec 09 00:54:09 now who maintains Finnish these days? Dec 09 00:54:35 timeless_mbp: which captions? Dec 09 00:54:49 sp3000: ncis: Dec 09 00:55:10 * timeless_mbp can't remember the right name Dec 09 00:55:12 oh, they're just really random with numbers Dec 09 00:56:16 maybe it's the duck Dec 09 00:56:41 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2349378/new-programming-jargon-you-coined/2444361#2444361 Dec 09 01:04:29 sp3000: hey! Dec 09 01:04:34 timeless-mbp:mozilla-central timeless$ hg qser|wc -l Dec 09 01:04:34 184 Dec 09 01:04:40 my qseries is <200 patches! Dec 09 01:05:58 * timeless_mbp grumbles Dec 09 01:06:07 google chrome didn't save my session before the os panic Dec 09 01:06:11 so i lost all my tabs Dec 09 01:07:32 thankfully history works Dec 09 01:07:54 this reminds me that Linux used to sync before a panic Dec 09 01:07:58 not anymore =( Dec 09 01:08:03 heh Dec 09 01:08:56 Firefox saves Dec 09 01:09:28 timeless_mbp: 101+43 Dec 09 01:09:33 you win :) Dec 09 01:09:50 timeless-mbp:mozilla-central timeless$ hg qser -R ../comm-central/|wc -l Dec 09 01:09:50 29 Dec 09 01:10:10 timeless-mbp:mozilla-central timeless$ hg qser -R ../../intevation.org/hg-crew|wc -l Dec 09 01:10:10 28 Dec 09 01:11:07 timeless-mbp:mozilla-central timeless$ wc -l ../../*/*/.hg/patches/series Dec 09 01:11:11 294 total Dec 09 01:11:34 mrmoku seems is about to teach uboot how to play nice with N900 wd :-) Dec 09 01:12:07 I'll throw in a dirty charger, prior to publishing it Dec 09 01:12:13 there's also 32 patches to transifex Dec 09 01:12:19 but i hope those are all obsolete Dec 09 02:31:54 hey dudes Dec 09 02:32:33 really Dec 09 02:32:35 owell Dec 09 02:32:41 that's sad but I can deal Dec 09 02:39:20 ?? Dec 09 02:39:38 * GAN900 yawns. Dec 09 02:39:39 did you just said "that's said" to a leaving message? :) Dec 09 02:39:46 *sad Dec 09 02:39:48 hi Dec 09 02:49:56 hello Dec 09 02:50:11 it's just that Maemo was so awsome Dec 09 02:50:19 N900 hurt that Dec 09 02:50:21 then Meego Dec 09 02:50:26 well anyways Dec 09 02:50:31 you all know the rest Dec 09 02:50:42 we have our N900s Dec 09 02:50:49 but it could have been way better Dec 09 02:51:11 never again Nokia Dec 09 02:51:29 n900 doesn't support MMS. I feel cheated, considering this is the Nokia shark for me Dec 09 02:51:49 other than that, hell of a machine Dec 09 02:52:03 it's the most solid open source well funded project Dec 09 02:52:08 so sad Dec 09 02:52:23 why sad? Dec 09 02:52:43 "We aren't going to support you", Nokia Dec 09 02:52:50 Meego time Dec 09 02:52:52 lol Dec 09 02:52:57 imo Dec 09 02:53:01 Meego time, is going to take time Dec 09 02:53:09 exactly Dec 09 02:53:21 why not support us in the mean time Dec 09 02:53:25 lol Dec 09 02:53:39 it's ok Dec 09 02:53:59 but is it official that the N900 will not officialy support MeeGo? Dec 09 02:54:59 I use Mac OS X and the N900 made me miss GNU/Linux as my desktop OS Dec 09 02:55:04 having a phone that can bt anything on piratebay etc. is fine with me Dec 09 02:55:25 "phone", well yes N900 also makes calls Dec 09 02:55:27 ssh, c, c++, fortran, maxima, etc Dec 09 02:55:34 blackthorne: lol Dec 09 02:56:28 to be perfect, it would be the iPhone4 hardware with a removable battery and sliding keyboard Dec 09 02:56:39 I mean, thinner and with better touch UI Dec 09 02:57:12 what I would have wanted is roughly the specs of the viliv s5 that works well with open source/linux etc. Dec 09 02:57:42 viliv s5 has an atom proc. 1.33mhz and I have 2gb of ram Dec 09 02:57:48 that's what I wanted Dec 09 02:58:30 forget the galexy tab forget the droid linux time, that would have killed Dec 09 02:58:53 blackthorne: sliding kb ftl Dec 09 02:59:28 Yigal: AFAIK, no Atom works well with open source/Linux Dec 09 02:59:41 they all(?) have GMA500 which has no 3D accel for Linux/open **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 09 02:59:57 2010