**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 11 02:59:57 2010
Dec 11 04:29:49 <DocScrutinizer> moo
Dec 11 04:30:28 <Termana> moorning DocScrutinizer
Dec 11 04:33:28 <GAN900> Wee, real sugar soda. What a concept.
Dec 11 04:33:36 * GAN900 stabs trade protectionism.
Dec 11 04:38:14 * DocScrutinizer prepares a latte macciato for Termana and GAN900
Dec 11 04:38:40 <GAN900> Nooo . . . bedtime
Dec 11 04:39:17 <Termana> Sounds lovely to me :p
Dec 11 04:40:30 <Termana> Also, Ubuntu sucks my balls. 10.10 keeps crashing RANDOMLY, and displaying an error message that I've found out actually has NOTHING to do with why it's crashing. I think it's time to switch to another distro, I can't take much more of Ubuntu's bullshit
Dec 11 04:40:58 <johnx> Termana, what are you thinking of switching to?
Dec 11 04:41:23 <johnx> (also, obligatory "works for me")
Dec 11 04:43:00 <nox-> if crashes are really random it might also just be some hw issue
Dec 11 04:43:35 <nox-> bad ram bad psu bad board you name it
Dec 11 04:43:56 <lolloo> naaah just format
Dec 11 04:44:02 <johnx> (and yes, sometimes HW problems can be triggered more by one OS version than another)
Dec 11 04:44:34 <johnx> one component overheating can cause fun problems as well
Dec 11 04:44:46 <nox-> yeah forgot overheating
Dec 11 04:44:56 <DocScrutinizer> opensuse, WFM. I never got the drive with Shuttleworth's semi-proprietary shit
Dec 11 04:45:28 <nox-> didnt `ms' just buy out novell?
Dec 11 04:45:36 <DocScrutinizer> hahaha
Dec 11 04:45:52 <nox-> or some `investor'... :)
Dec 11 04:46:23 <DocScrutinizer> Icouldntbotherless
Dec 11 04:47:50 <ieatlint> might i suggest http://ubuntuce.com/ or http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/
Dec 11 04:47:53 <ieatlint> they're both awesome
Dec 11 04:48:05 <ieatlint> HML is the shit
Dec 11 04:48:28 <DocScrutinizer> hannahmontana \o/
Dec 11 04:49:24 <DocScrutinizer> http://xkcd.com/424/ so much for my notion about ubuntu
Dec 11 04:50:09 <nox-> hehe
Dec 11 04:50:21 <luke-jr> nox-: Ubuntu is infamous for having hardware problems
Dec 11 04:50:33 <ieatlint> haha
Dec 11 04:50:46 <ieatlint> i still love the xkcd comic about that openssl patch
Dec 11 04:50:57 <ieatlint> http://xkcd.com/221/
Dec 11 04:51:09 <nox-> yeah thats one's a classic
Dec 11 04:51:33 <luke-jr> not as classic as the sudo one
Dec 11 04:52:47 <ieatlint> dunno, 221 is awesome because of what it was mocking
Dec 11 04:53:14 <ieatlint> sudo isn't funny by itself, but them removing a salt in a random number generator on an cryptography lib is
Dec 11 04:54:05 <DocScrutinizer> 221 is annoying as there's no RFC1149.5
Dec 11 04:54:18 <ieatlint> so bitter :P
Dec 11 04:56:17 <johnx> the fact that you actually went looking for RFC1149.5 just made that comic funnier to me :)
Dec 11 04:56:44 <luke-jr> johnx: who wouldn't?
Dec 11 04:56:51 <luke-jr> 1149 is IP over aviation, tho
Dec 11 04:56:51 <DocScrutinizer> pah, I know 1149 by heart - don't even have to look it up
Dec 11 04:57:36 <johnx> luke-jr, huh. I just kinda figured that any RFC ending in .5 was obviously a joke ...
Dec 11 04:57:54 <luke-jr> johnx: 1149 is a joke w/o ending in .5
Dec 11 04:58:18 <ieatlint> 1149 is legit... i've seen it done
Dec 11 04:58:27 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Dec 11 04:58:31 <nox-> haha
Dec 11 04:58:38 <DocScrutinizer> with
Dec 11 04:58:43 <ieatlint> carrier pigeons
Dec 11 04:58:47 <DocScrutinizer> SYN & ACK/NAK?
Dec 11 04:59:17 <ieatlint> i don't think they did more than a SYN and an ACK actually
Dec 11 04:59:39 <luke-jr> http://www.xkcd.com/832/ is actually useful
Dec 11 04:59:57 <ieatlint> it did stray from  the spec slightly too, they didn't duct tape it to the bird
Dec 11 05:00:20 <luke-jr> I think I just decided I'm always going to be X
Dec 11 05:00:35 <johnx> luke-jr, for certain values of "useful"
Dec 11 05:00:41 <luke-jr> hehe
Dec 11 05:00:53 <luke-jr> more useful than other xkcd for sure
Dec 11 05:03:02 <DocScrutinizer> wow, 832 is awesome
Dec 11 05:18:39 <DocScrutinizer> haha, story of my life http://www.xkcd.com/827/
Dec 11 05:18:53 <DocScrutinizer> well, not exactly
Dec 11 05:18:56 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Dec 11 05:18:59 <Termana> johnx, haven't thought about it. I'm just pissed off that it's doing it
Dec 11 05:19:37 <Termana> Maybe I'll buy a Mac and go OS X! :P
Dec 11 05:19:38 <johnx> Termana, the nice thing about linux is the ability to (usually) figure out *why* it's doing whatever it is
Dec 11 05:20:10 <DocScrutinizer> except for random reboots on diablo
Dec 11 05:20:55 <johnx> DocScrutinizer, that comes down to the watchdog, right?
Dec 11 05:21:02 <DocScrutinizer> prolly
Dec 11 05:21:47 <Jay_BEE> hola
Dec 11 05:21:50 <Termana> Or maybe I'll grow a big beard and go *BSD
Dec 11 05:21:56 <Termana> hey Jay_BEE
Dec 11 05:22:16 <DocScrutinizer> though I ran a remote shell with htop, and there's not been any runaway process or exceptional load at all
Dec 11 05:23:00 <johnx> DocScrutinizer, and you tested to see if the reboots continued after disabling the watchdog?
Dec 11 05:23:06 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: Diablo will also randomly shut off if your battery is old
Dec 11 05:23:13 <DocScrutinizer> johnx: nope
Dec 11 05:23:47 <DocScrutinizer> Termana: standby off battery >2days, with WLAN
Dec 11 05:23:59 <DocScrutinizer> ok, not the expected 8 days anymore
Dec 11 05:24:33 * DocScrutinizer swaps battery, got a "fresh" one from spare N810 anyway
Dec 11 05:25:21 <DocScrutinizer> nevertheless I doubt it's battery related. Seems it's much more frequent when xchat is running
Dec 11 05:25:22 <johnx> DocScrutinizer, uhm, then I would guess it's something causing the watchdog to trigger. I also wouldn't put much effort into figuring out why until you figure out that either is or isn't the direct cause of the reboots
Dec 11 05:26:49 <DocScrutinizer> johnx: kernel panic comes to mind
Dec 11 05:27:32 <johnx> well, yeah. it could be, but you have a simple way to rule out the watchdog, and no really simple way to rule out a kernel panic
Dec 11 05:28:18 <johnx> it's the old "searching under the streetlight" thing: do the easy tests first
Dec 11 05:28:59 <DocScrutinizer> grr, need an alarm @ 6:25 to warn me about disconnect pending
Dec 11 05:29:06 <DocScrutinizer> johnx: kernel panic comes to mind
Dec 11 05:29:09 <DocScrutinizer> maybe a glitch in WLAN driver
Dec 11 05:29:16 <johnx> <johnx> well, yeah. it could be, but you have a simple way to rule out the watchdog, and no really simple way to rule out a kernel panic
Dec 11 05:29:16 <johnx> * chx has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
Dec 11 05:29:16 <johnx> <johnx> it's the old "searching under the streetlight" thing: do the easy tests first
Dec 11 05:29:46 <DocScrutinizer> ack
Dec 11 05:29:55 * DocScrutinizer swaps battery NOW
Dec 11 05:29:56 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: why does your internet disconnect at 6:25 for?
Dec 11 05:30:18 <DocScrutinizer> not 6:25, but 6:30-delta
Dec 11 05:30:34 <DocScrutinizer> where delta is my router sysclock being fast
Dec 11 05:30:48 <DocScrutinizer> 24h forced disconnect
Dec 11 05:30:54 <Termana> so you purposely have your router reboot or something?
Dec 11 05:30:59 <DocScrutinizer> a german thing all providers do
Dec 11 05:31:06 <nox-> Termana, stupid german adsl isps disconnecting `everyone' after 24h
Dec 11 05:31:16 <Termana> ah. righto
Dec 11 05:31:26 <DocScrutinizer> yes, I schedule it in router to keep it from drifting a few minutes every day
Dec 11 05:31:36 <nox-> bbl
Dec 11 05:39:15 <DocScrutinizer> another strange thing is it often reboots TWO times in a row, doing busy things for 2..4minutes then rebooting 2nd time. Feels like fsck
Dec 11 05:39:34 <DocScrutinizer> / isn't filled up
Dec 11 05:40:10 <DocScrutinizer> it not even got any syslog running afaik
Dec 11 05:41:08 <DocScrutinizer> once I thought it's just xchat logs filling / ->reboot, but it reboots without xchat running, as well
Dec 11 05:42:41 <DocScrutinizer> for all I can tell it might actually be a hw glitch problem, after 3+ years of 24/7
Dec 11 05:45:07 <DocScrutinizer-8> well, I just rebooted it with 'fresh' battery. You can tell how long it lasts, from this user vanishing from channel
Dec 11 05:47:18 <DocScrutinizer> might be anything from minutes to months
Dec 11 05:49:21 <DocScrutinizer> it hits me I maybe should reflash the N810 :-P
Dec 11 05:54:11 <Termana> Engadget are a bunch of raging idiot lunatics. When reviewing the Nexus S and Android 2.3, they said this about copy and paste in Android 2.3 - "Funnily enough, a little cursor appears when you start selecting -- a holdover from Linux?"
Dec 11 05:54:38 <johnx> Android isn't linux
Dec 11 05:55:10 <johnx> at this point you could make a good argument for "forked from linux"
Dec 11 05:55:47 <Termana> Do you think I was being sarcastic when I said they were lunatics? :P
Dec 11 05:56:42 <Termana> They obviously have no clue what they are talking about. Ever.
Dec 11 05:57:40 <johnx> if you s/linux/traditional linux distros/ would you agree with it?
Dec 11 05:59:52 <Termana> johnx - no? I don't agree with it in it's current form, and I wouldn't agree with it like that either. The cursor that appears in Android when you copy and paste obviously has NOTHING to do with and is certainly not any "holdover" from the Linux the kernel or any GNU userspace
Dec 11 06:00:26 <Termana> the Linux kernel*
Dec 11 06:05:34 <DocScrutinizer> emgadget - pff
Dec 11 06:06:12 <johnx> meh. they're reasonable most of the time
Dec 11 06:06:17 * DocScrutinizer glares at scanjet G2410
Dec 11 06:06:24 <DocScrutinizer> >:-(
Dec 11 06:06:53 <johnx> scanners are right up there with printers in the group of "technology that I kind of loathe"
Dec 11 06:06:59 <DocScrutinizer> ~spank DocScrutinizer
Dec 11 06:06:59 * infobot bends DocScrutinizer over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on DocScrutinizer's pasty white buttocks.
Dec 11 06:07:10 <johnx> O_o;
Dec 11 06:07:26 <DocScrutinizer> I thought "HP" is a equiv to "works with linux"
Dec 11 06:07:46 <johnx> buy products, not brands
Dec 11 06:08:34 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, after it found it doesn't work at all with anything linuxoid, I wondered if it'd be smarter to google FIRST
Dec 11 06:09:09 <johnx> I've been guilty of making the same mistake quite a few times in the past
Dec 11 06:09:30 <johnx> the related mistake is: buy products for the features they have now, not the features that some promised future update may confer
Dec 11 06:10:02 <johnx> learned that one after buying an original radeon with the promise of open source drivers being finished "any day now"
Dec 11 06:10:07 <DocScrutinizer> haha, that's why this shit is collecting dust here since a year
Dec 11 06:10:33 <DocScrutinizer> hoped it might get support eventually, but no luck
Dec 11 06:11:43 <DocScrutinizer> now I'll trade it in for a random AP router
Dec 11 06:12:10 <DocScrutinizer> the girl has winXP and doesn't need the router :-D
Dec 11 06:12:26 <DocScrutinizer> can't be worse than my ZyXEL P660
Dec 11 06:13:46 <johnx> hilariously, the scanner my wife bought to use with her windows xp machine recently got linux drivers but never had win7 drivers released
Dec 11 06:13:58 <DocScrutinizer> hahaha
Dec 11 06:44:03 <trx> can gtk and qt be mixed? (insert a gtk based edit box onto a qt widget)
Dec 11 07:35:52 <Gh0sty> luke-jr: can't explain it but your whatcelltower cause my phone to always want to connect to a network ... better yet: when its connected to a network it does not ask it but when the programm seems to be finished even it will try to reconnect to networks after my network connection is broken
Dec 11 07:36:06 <Gh0sty> it retries like every minute or so ...
Dec 11 07:38:22 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: that's the virus he put in there. You never should start binaries of questionable origin that aren't backed up by sourcecode
Dec 11 07:39:57 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: oh well I'm probably going to scratch my phone today anyway
Dec 11 07:40:03 <Gh0sty> so I don't mind :p
Dec 11 07:40:41 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: you are more the hardware guy as far as i know? :p
Dec 11 07:40:51 <Gh0sty> or you know also internals about the software?
Dec 11 07:40:53 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, kinda
Dec 11 07:41:19 <Gh0sty> we were talking here about the graphics chip yesterday
Dec 11 07:41:28 <Gh0sty> and the way that its driver is closed source
Dec 11 07:41:50 <DocScrutinizer> s/chip/core
Dec 11 07:41:51 <Gh0sty> the capabilities of the chip are good enough to run meego but its only driver support which is missing?
Dec 11 07:41:56 <Gh0sty> or is the chip underpowered?
Dec 11 07:42:49 <DocScrutinizer> hard to answer, I don't actually understand the question
Dec 11 07:42:52 <Termana> Gh0sty, what are you talking about? the graphics chip has support in MeeGo
Dec 11 07:43:18 <Gh0sty> well people are cursing about the fact that the chip does not do 3D or 2D well enough ...
Dec 11 07:43:20 <DocScrutinizer> btw there's no graphics chip
Dec 11 07:43:34 <Termana> Or a better question, who were you talking to this about?
Dec 11 07:43:36 <Gh0sty> something SGI which is closed source?
Dec 11 07:43:37 * Termana gets the rubber mallet out
Dec 11 07:43:40 <DocScrutinizer> it the gfx core in OMAP SoC
Dec 11 07:44:07 <Gh0sty> ok then I don't understand the hardware architecture :p
Dec 11 07:44:19 <Gh0sty> is there actually no block diagram then? :p
Dec 11 07:44:36 <DocScrutinizer> there's a complete schematics
Dec 11 07:44:48 <Gh0sty> ah really? let me google that
Dec 11 07:45:17 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic
Dec 11 07:45:32 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: I hate to argue semantics, but isn't it still technically a chip? Just because it's soldered on (or whatever) on to the SoC shouldn't change that
Dec 11 07:46:05 <DocScrutinizer> it's a sub-block on the CPU-et-al die
Dec 11 07:46:06 <lcuk> its actually better to describe it as a specialised core
Dec 11 07:46:56 <DocScrutinizer> so, colloquially it's the same "chip" as CPU and a lot of other things
Dec 11 07:47:02 <Gh0sty> # Integrated POWERVR SGX™ graphics core with OpenGL ES® 2.0 and OpenVG™, support.
Dec 11 07:47:08 <DocScrutinizer> it's a System ona Chip
Dec 11 07:47:11 <DocScrutinizer> SoC
Dec 11 07:47:22 <Gh0sty> thats the one they were talking about yesterday i think
Dec 11 07:47:31 <Gh0sty> this part is a closed driver
Dec 11 07:47:35 <DocScrutinizer> yes, it's a core, no chip
Dec 11 07:47:48 <Termana> I just always thought the SoC meant the whole board. But I guess that would be System on a Board :p
Dec 11 07:47:54 <Gh0sty> well this core is powerful enough to run the 3d candy which meego wants?
Dec 11 07:47:59 <Termana> thought that*
Dec 11 07:48:25 <Gh0sty> Termana: well in fact as I read it now its system on a chip ... :p
Dec 11 07:48:26 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: I got no idea what meego wants
Dec 11 07:48:47 <Gh0sty> so multiple cores put together on 1 single chip which are closely linked
Dec 11 07:49:01 <Gh0sty> just like they want to do now from intel and such
Dec 11 07:49:37 <DocScrutinizer> it's caled OMAP3430
Dec 11 07:50:17 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_CPU
Dec 11 07:50:28 <Termana> Gh0sty, yes it is fine for MeeGo. Whoever has been complaining that it isn't suitable for MeeGo hasn't used it (more so using the driver available for MeeGo)
Dec 11 07:51:05 <Gh0sty> well it was mostly luke-jr who was ... how should I put it
Dec 11 07:51:24 <Gh0sty> starting a bit of a rant like maemo is dead and meego will never be supported on n900 officially
Dec 11 07:51:25 <lolloo> MeeGo awesome
Dec 11 07:51:43 <Gh0sty> so you throw away your money by buying an n900 now
Dec 11 07:52:01 <lolloo> n900 is cheap
Dec 11 07:52:05 <Gh0sty> lol
Dec 11 07:52:08 <Gh0sty> now it is maybe
Dec 11 07:52:10 <lolloo> I would by three if i want
Dec 11 07:52:13 <Termana> I see
Dec 11 07:52:17 <Gh0sty> I payed mine 500 eur
Dec 11 07:52:27 <Termana> Gh0sty, it depends on how you interpret "officially" I guess
Dec 11 07:52:32 <SwedeMike> buying a used n900 might make sense though
Dec 11 07:52:48 <Termana> The N900 is currently $350 on Amazon
Dec 11 07:52:51 <Gh0sty> well I consider even if the whole thing is a dead platform
Dec 11 07:52:51 <Termana> (new)
Dec 11 07:52:52 <lolloo> i bought new N900 for 300 dolar
Dec 11 07:52:59 <Gh0sty> its still usable as a pocket linux pc :p
Dec 11 07:53:28 <lolloo> meego will support n900 officially
Dec 11 07:53:30 <Gh0sty> lolloo: yeah half a year after I bought mine (its an import from the UK cause I could not even get it here)
Dec 11 07:53:49 <Gh0sty> the decreased the price by around 30%
Dec 11 07:53:50 <lolloo> aha
Dec 11 07:53:55 * DocScrutinizer moans and hides away from upcoming "without meego it's a useless device" nonsense
Dec 11 07:54:29 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: without meego it's a useless device!!!111!!!!
Dec 11 07:54:29 <lolloo> MeeGo is better competition to android
Dec 11 07:54:33 <lolloo> and ios
Dec 11 07:54:40 <chx> for less than 300 usd i got a mobile device that runs Drupal at an acceptable speed, runs Skype, IRC and SSH and even allows me to do phonecalls and has a GPS. That's a good deal.
Dec 11 07:54:43 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: well but you got to admit that not much developers are attracted by an OS which nokia is not going to continue soon ... (maemo)
Dec 11 07:55:14 <lolloo> meego= maemo6
Dec 11 07:55:15 <Gh0sty> oh yes ios
Dec 11 07:55:21 <Gh0sty> that screws with my mind
Dec 11 07:55:28 <SwedeMike> developing new applications for maemo doesn't make much sense, yes.
Dec 11 07:55:37 <lolloo> meego = maemo 6
Dec 11 07:55:38 <Gh0sty> whoever invented that one ... surprised that cisco does not complain to apple yet :p
Dec 11 07:55:48 <SwedeMike> Gh0sty: apple bought a license to use it.
Dec 11 07:55:55 <Gh0sty> rly? :p
Dec 11 07:55:58 <Gh0sty> lol
Dec 11 07:56:10 <SwedeMike> http://blogs.cisco.com/news/cisco_and_apple_agreement_on_ios_trademark/
Dec 11 07:56:11 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: sorry, I'm not contributing in this nonsense debate. Just one word: I'd happily use the linux system as of 5 years ago on my laptop, if it wasn't for kde3 being discontinued
Dec 11 07:56:14 <Gh0sty> but anyway away from the rants:
Dec 11 07:56:30 <Gh0sty> meego is not yet production ready
Dec 11 07:56:34 <lolloo> meego is linux
Dec 11 07:56:41 <lolloo> fully open
Dec 11 07:56:48 <Gh0sty> so we're now in a twilight zone?
Dec 11 07:56:55 <lolloo> and better for tablets
Dec 11 07:57:02 <lolloo> not like maemo 5
Dec 11 07:57:05 <Gh0sty> is it fully open? :/
Dec 11 07:57:10 <lolloo> yes
Dec 11 07:57:11 <Gh0sty> like the phone part and stuff?
Dec 11 07:57:16 <lolloo> yes
Dec 11 07:57:23 <SwedeMike> "open" is one of the most misused words in the world. very subjective.
Dec 11 07:57:37 <Gh0sty> hmm ok
Dec 11 07:57:39 <SwedeMike> lolloo: is it "debian" open?
Dec 11 07:57:43 <lolloo> yes
Dec 11 07:57:53 <Gh0sty> but how about running meego then on the device
Dec 11 07:57:57 <Termana> That's not true
Dec 11 07:58:11 <Gh0sty> last week I read you can't even charge the n900 yet when running meego?
Dec 11 07:58:12 <lolloo> copy to MMC card
Dec 11 07:58:30 * DocScrutinizer YAAAWNS
Dec 11 07:58:42 <lolloo> latest version of meego is 3 days old
Dec 11 07:58:50 <Gh0sty> or are people feeding gibberish into this channel? :p
Dec 11 07:58:55 <lolloo> 1.1.8
Dec 11 07:59:03 * RST38h drops a screwdriver intoDocScrutinizer
Dec 11 07:59:18 <lolloo> check out meego repo
Dec 11 07:59:20 <Termana> lolloo, not only is the N900 MeeGo implementation not "debian" open, vendors won't be encouraged to make their MeeGo devices "debian" open
Dec 11 07:59:27 <lolloo> for latest image
Dec 11 07:59:28 <SwedeMike> lolloo: I doubt there won't be closed components, just like there is on N900
Dec 11 07:59:55 <lolloo> maybe gfx driver will be closed
Dec 11 07:59:55 <Gh0sty> is there any downside onto running it from mmc card?
Dec 11 08:00:08 <lolloo> its bad for buisness to make fully open
Dec 11 08:00:12 <SwedeMike> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 "Due to the use of closed components in the hardware adaptation, this team cannot run fully in the open."
Dec 11 08:00:17 <DocScrutinizer> s/from mmc card//
Dec 11 08:00:20 <lolloo> competition will steal ideas
Dec 11 08:00:33 <SwedeMike> lolloo: ah, so it's not debian open after all.
Dec 11 08:00:34 <lolloo> nokia dont want competition stealing
Dec 11 08:00:49 <DocScrutinizer> lolloo: stop talking BS
Dec 11 08:00:54 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: ? enlighten me?
Dec 11 08:01:24 <lolloo> DocScrutinizer, ur best in maemo
Dec 11 08:01:35 <lolloo> meego is another talk.
Dec 11 08:02:10 <DocScrutinizer> lolloo: so I suggest you take your talk there
Dec 11 08:02:27 <lolloo> yes but I wish you come help too
Dec 11 08:02:29 <Gh0sty> ok thats what I just realised ... DocScrutinizer does not like it here :p
Dec 11 08:02:57 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: mind if I ask what your personal opinion is about meego then?
Dec 11 08:03:06 <lolloo> hehe
Dec 11 08:03:08 <Termana> Yeah, DocScrutinizer comes here because I manipulate and force him to, he absolutely doesn't do it on his own free will and like to come here
Dec 11 08:03:14 <Gh0sty> you can also pm it to me if you dont want it public
Dec 11 08:03:23 <lolloo> hehe
Dec 11 08:03:37 <Gh0sty> and I'm not joking ...
Dec 11 08:03:44 <lolloo> haha
Dec 11 08:03:52 <DocScrutinizer> meego is an OS trageted at Nokia's next smartphone series, and not useable on a day by day basis for the next >6 months
Dec 11 08:04:02 <DocScrutinizer> and it's maximum boring to me
Dec 11 08:04:04 <lolloo> nop
Dec 11 08:04:14 <lolloo> smartphone and tablets and laptops
Dec 11 08:04:17 <Gh0sty> why is it boring? :/
Dec 11 08:04:27 <johnx> lolloo, there's a tablet UX again?
Dec 11 08:04:29 <lolloo> atom based intel cpu
Dec 11 08:04:37 <lolloo> also arm cpu
Dec 11 08:04:53 <lolloo> its the next big thing for nokia and intel
Dec 11 08:05:04 <Gh0sty> yeah yeah yeah
Dec 11 08:05:05 <lolloo> to blow away competition
Dec 11 08:05:09 <Gh0sty> heard that marketing blabla
Dec 11 08:05:17 <Gh0sty> I don't like marketing :p
Dec 11 08:05:22 <lolloo> even AMD is joining the force
Dec 11 08:05:26 <DocScrutinizer> take it to #meego please!
Dec 11 08:05:42 <lolloo> so it's intel+amd+nokia
Dec 11 08:05:52 <lolloo> = MeeGo
Dec 11 08:05:54 <Gh0sty> lolloo: its ok stop it here
Dec 11 08:05:59 <Gh0sty> i joined meego as well
Dec 11 08:06:03 <Gh0sty> you can continue there
Dec 11 08:06:30 <lolloo> maemo guys should join us too
Dec 11 08:06:48 <DocScrutinizer> why?
Dec 11 08:06:50 <johnx> lolloo, the interested ones have
Dec 11 08:06:52 <lolloo> no point in making another maemo apps now
Dec 11 08:07:07 * RST38h notices that pretty much any available information on Meego can be found with google search
Dec 11 08:07:10 <lolloo> start making apps for meego
Dec 11 08:07:10 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: what is your daily occupance infact? :p
Dec 11 08:07:15 <RST38h> it is allin the open
Dec 11 08:07:26 <Gh0sty> you are an embedded developer or something?
Dec 11 08:07:41 <DocScrutinizer> lolloo: stop talking BS!
Dec 11 08:07:51 <lolloo> its not BS
Dec 11 08:08:01 <lolloo> MeeGo 1.2 is near
Dec 11 08:08:07 <DocScrutinizer> so WHAT?
Dec 11 08:08:19 <lolloo> for netbooks, phones, laptops
Dec 11 08:08:28 <Gh0sty> lolloo: I have to agree with DocScrutinizer ... since meego is NOT ready for N900 ... I want my phone to work right now ... not in 6 months!
Dec 11 08:08:34 <johnx> lolloo, I'm already hacking on meego stuff and you're still annoying
Dec 11 08:08:43 <DocScrutinizer> lolloo: if you come here to rant about maemo being useless then piss off
Dec 11 08:08:51 <RST38h> Doc: I have fixed lolloo guy by the way
Dec 11 08:08:59 <RST38h> Doc: /ignore does wonders
Dec 11 08:09:01 <johnx> lolloo, the best thing you can do is lead by example
Dec 11 08:09:05 <chx> you think meego will be ready in six months?
Dec 11 08:09:16 <Gh0sty> and screw all other devices, I have my n900 now, I want it working the way I want it, thats what open source stands for in my mind ... not that the phone forces me to change my ways ...
Dec 11 08:09:19 <chx> if wishes had wings...
Dec 11 08:09:34 * Termana sets mode +o Termana
Dec 11 08:10:31 * johnx hears crickets chirping ...
Dec 11 08:10:44 <Gh0sty> ok back to maemo now :p
Dec 11 08:10:53 <lolloo> http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.80/1.1.80.9.20101207.1/handset/images/
Dec 11 08:11:03 <lolloo> this is latest iamge for N900
Dec 11 08:11:09 <lolloo> image*
Dec 11 08:11:17 <lolloo> its dated 7 december
Dec 11 08:11:23 <lolloo> try it out guys
Dec 11 08:11:27 <johnx> lolloo, please stop talking, for your own good
Dec 11 08:11:28 <Termana> Here comes the real thing
Dec 11 08:12:09 <Gh0sty> according to luke-jr its not possible to retrieve the cell you are connected without activating the gps
Dec 11 08:12:12 <Gh0sty> is that right?
Dec 11 08:12:25 <DocScrutinizer> not sure about it
Dec 11 08:12:26 <Termana> I think that's wrong
Dec 11 08:12:29 <RST38h> probblynot
Dec 11 08:12:36 <DocScrutinizer> there's netmon which will tell you the CID
Dec 11 08:12:38 <RST38h> cell id hasnothingto dowith gps
Dec 11 08:13:01 <Gh0sty> he said that since the phone part is closed there is no way to get it without activating the gps
Dec 11 08:13:04 <DocScrutinizer> there's pnatd and some AT cmd to get CID info
Dec 11 08:13:18 <Gh0sty> but then again i am not a developer so is there another way? :p
Dec 11 08:13:42 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: ^^^
Dec 11 08:13:48 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: ^^^^
Dec 11 08:14:08 <Gh0sty> what I was thinking about yesterday is a binary (we called it "whatcelltower") which just returns the CID
Dec 11 08:14:56 <Gh0sty> but since I'm not a code guru I'm afraid ... that is outside of my capabilities
Dec 11 08:15:19 <Gh0sty> anyone can fix me such a thing?
Dec 11 08:15:26 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: xterm: pnatd<enter>
Dec 11 08:15:43 <DocScrutinizer> google 3gpp at cmds
Dec 11 08:15:59 <DocScrutinizer> or simply install netmon
Dec 11 08:17:26 <Gh0sty> my idea is to implement the same functionality I have on my E65 (symbian) with some programm ...
Dec 11 08:17:49 <Gh0sty> I now use alarmed that it turns off my modem when it's say 22h
Dec 11 08:17:59 <Gh0sty> I wanna sleep, not get calls ... :p
Dec 11 08:18:24 * DocScrutinizer sighs
Dec 11 08:18:30 <Gh0sty> but ... when I'm not yet home ... it should not turn it off yet
Dec 11 08:18:42 <Gh0sty> for obvious reasons :)
Dec 11 08:19:23 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: what? :p
Dec 11 08:19:51 <Gh0sty> I am a linux sysadmin and my lifestyle is: script once ... never do again (by hand)
Dec 11 08:19:54 <ShadowJK> CellID, LAC and the other things are sent out on dbus when they change
Dec 11 08:20:24 <Gh0sty> well I would just set alarmed to run at 22h a script
Dec 11 08:20:37 <ShadowJK> Maybe luke meant translating CellID into a location. I think the location subsystem just asks a nokia server for that info
Dec 11 08:20:41 <Gh0sty> check if cell = home -> turn off the modem
Dec 11 08:21:12 <Gh0sty> if cell != home -> some backof algorithm which polls every ... 15 minutes or so to see if I'm home
Dec 11 08:21:27 <johnx> Gh0sty, why not use your home wifi network as the trigger instead?
Dec 11 08:21:47 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: do you read any of the answers posted here? or do you monologue on
Dec 11 08:21:54 <Gh0sty> home wifi is not always on and then you need to enable wifi ... which drains battery
Dec 11 08:22:14 <AnAnt_> Hello, is it true that N900 phones do not support arabic language ?
Dec 11 08:22:46 <Gh0sty> ShadowJK: possible that luke-jr misinterpreted my idea
Dec 11 08:22:51 <DocScrutinizer> support is spare if any I guess
Dec 11 08:23:11 <Gh0sty> interesting to know that cellID and LAC are sent on dbus :)
Dec 11 08:23:14 <johnx> AnAnt_, Nokia doesn't officially support it, as far as I know
Dec 11 08:23:33 <Gh0sty> that could have some nice fixes for my second part of the idea ...
Dec 11 08:23:57 <Gh0sty> the application on the E65 also could switch to other profile when entering a cell and leaving a cell
Dec 11 08:24:35 <Gh0sty> for example I fixed the cells around our cinema in town ... it goes directly into meeting mode profile ...
Dec 11 08:25:15 <AnAnt_> johnx: how about non-officially ?
Dec 11 08:25:18 <Gh0sty> and a friend uses that for his bluetooth: when he's not @ work or @ home his bluetooth get enabled cause he's probably in the car ... with a bluetooth handsfree kit
Dec 11 08:25:49 <johnx> AnAnt_, googling shows some results, but I don't use Arabic support, so I don't know how well it works
Dec 11 08:26:45 <johnx> Gh0sty, so that when you're waiting for your friend outside the movie theater you'll miss their call telling you they'll be late?
Dec 11 08:27:23 <Gh0sty> meeting mode vibrates :p
Dec 11 08:27:48 <Gh0sty> and yes that is the downside perhaps but its perfectly acceptable to me :p
Dec 11 08:27:59 <AnAnt_> johnx: thanks
Dec 11 08:28:37 <AnAnt_> so, Maemo is Debian based, right ?
Dec 11 08:28:55 <johnx> AnAnt_, not really
Dec 11 08:29:05 <Gh0sty> hmmz I gotta read up some more on dbus it seems
Dec 11 08:29:06 <AnAnt_> huh ?
Dec 11 08:29:21 <johnx> it uses dpkg/apt-get, but it doesn't follow debian releases
Dec 11 08:29:24 <Gh0sty> each time I find some interesting stuff to do with the n900 ... dbus is the answer
Dec 11 08:29:27 <AnAnt_> so if I get a package from Debian, I cannot install it on Maemo ?
Dec 11 08:29:30 <johnx> so you'll find different software, packaged differently
Dec 11 08:30:07 <johnx> AnAnt_, that might work for a couple very simple packages, but probably won't work for anything graphical
Dec 11 08:30:27 <johnx> you might also be interested in "easy debian" which is some kind of debian chroot for the n900
Dec 11 08:30:54 <AnAnt_> I see
Dec 11 08:32:03 <Gh0sty> haha easy debian :)
Dec 11 08:32:06 <Gh0sty> nice
Dec 11 08:32:29 * Gh0sty is wondering what packages one would want extra from a debian on maemo) 
Dec 11 08:32:55 <Gh0sty> even the "obscure" things like iodine I've seen in repositories for maemo :p
Dec 11 08:33:27 <johnx> Gh0sty, you haven't happened to see a screen package, have you?
Dec 11 08:33:38 <AnAnt_> Gh0sty: iodine ?
Dec 11 08:33:47 <Gh0sty> tcp over dns
Dec 11 08:33:50 <Gh0sty> or dns tunnels
Dec 11 08:33:54 <SwedeMike> ip over dns
Dec 11 08:34:44 <Gh0sty> at a lot of places in europ you'll find hotspots which you have to pay for ...
Dec 11 08:34:59 <Gh0sty> usually these allow connections over dns
Dec 11 08:35:33 <Gh0sty> if you have a box elsewhere with an iodine client listening on dns you can tunnel through such hotspots without paying
Dec 11 08:35:43 <Gh0sty> the downside is the connection is very slow ...
Dec 11 08:36:03 <Gh0sty> but hey ... for IRC for example thats just enough :p
Dec 11 08:36:36 <Gh0sty> hmm lemme see there is no screen in the repos? :o
Dec 11 08:37:04 <johnx> uhm, never mind
Dec 11 08:37:19 <johnx> obviously I'm crazy, since now that I look I already have it installed ...
Dec 11 08:37:28 <Gh0sty> lol
Dec 11 08:37:34 <johnx> guess the mind really is the first thing to go ...
Dec 11 08:37:41 <Gh0sty> happened to me last week too :p
Dec 11 08:37:50 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: http://www.ctiforum.com/standard/standard/etsi/0707.pdf 7.2 p38;  pnatd AT+CREG=2 \n AT+CREG?
Dec 11 08:37:59 <johnx> it's in tools, I didn't take the plunge to turning on the tools repo until recently
Dec 11 08:38:04 <DocScrutinizer> +CREG: 2,1,"CA66","A002"
Dec 11 08:38:37 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: probably there's an even btter AT cmd than +creg
Dec 11 08:39:23 <Gh0sty> if what ShadowJK says is true it should be available through DBUS
Dec 11 08:39:33 <Gh0sty> so I'll have to look into that ...
Dec 11 08:40:08 <DocScrutinizer> yes, but that's async, means you need to monitor dbus and keep track. You wont see this msg on dbus at 22:00:00
Dec 11 08:40:25 <DocScrutinizer> it's sent on dbus when CID is *changing*
Dec 11 08:40:48 <johnx> so you might want to look at dbus-scripts or something like that
Dec 11 08:40:54 <DocScrutinizer> I sugest you look into netmon source
Dec 11 08:41:35 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: installing netmon as we speak :p
Dec 11 08:41:57 <DocScrutinizer> dbus-scripting could set a flag file "at-home" to /tmp or whatever, when seeing correct cellID, and delete that file on seeing any wrong cellID
Dec 11 08:42:14 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: indeed thats what I was thinking
Dec 11 08:42:33 <johnx> then have alarmed call you at the appropriate time
Dec 11 08:42:56 <DocScrutinizer> or you go direct way to cellmo and ask it via pnatd about current cellID
Dec 11 08:43:09 <Gh0sty> but still I'd need help of someone who wants to make it a gui app :p
Dec 11 08:43:15 <DocScrutinizer> with AT+CREG? or any beter siuted command
Dec 11 08:43:38 <Gh0sty> but ok the info you gave me guys is great news!
Dec 11 08:43:44 <lardman> morning all
Dec 11 08:43:52 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: my fee is 70bucks/h
Dec 11 08:43:56 <Gh0sty> since luke told me that it would require worse procedures :p
Dec 11 08:44:08 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: you can make it in 1 h? :p
Dec 11 08:44:19 <DocScrutinizer> probably yes, maybe 2
Dec 11 08:44:30 <Gh0sty> hmm thats a little too much :p
Dec 11 08:44:53 <Gh0sty> or wait
Dec 11 08:44:59 <Gh0sty> bucks is dollar or euro? :p
Dec 11 08:45:12 <johnx> those two numbers are more reasonable then you'd hear from just about anyone else
Dec 11 08:45:13 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, and doesn't cover the overhead for shipping and invoice writing
Dec 11 08:45:15 <AnAnt_> anyone tried installing Ubuntu on N900 ?
Dec 11 08:45:41 <Gh0sty> ubuntu for crying out loud :o
Dec 11 08:45:49 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: shipping :p
Dec 11 08:45:59 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: shipping? :o
Dec 11 08:46:05 <AnAnt_> Gh0sty: ?
Dec 11 08:46:18 <Gh0sty> I would even like it to be opened :P
Dec 11 08:46:19 <DocScrutinizer> reas that as "I'm not interested"
Dec 11 08:46:20 <AnAnt_> Gh0sty: I'm not a native english speaker, so I don't understand the expression
Dec 11 08:46:39 <srbaker> heya folks
Dec 11 08:46:40 <Termana> what DocScrutinizer means by "shipping and invoice writing" is "beer and curry fund"
Dec 11 08:46:41 <Gh0sty> AnAnt_: what would you like to do with ubuntu on n900
Dec 11 08:46:46 <srbaker> is there a list of hardware that runs latest maemo?
Dec 11 08:46:52 <Termana> srbaker, the N900
Dec 11 08:46:53 <Gh0sty> its not optimized for running on a phone like system
Dec 11 08:46:55 <AnAnt_> Gh0sty: run apps that I am used to
Dec 11 08:47:22 <Termana> and the Zoom II but I doubt you have one of those
Dec 11 08:47:25 <johnx> AnAnt_, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ARM/n900
Dec 11 08:47:45 <srbaker> Termana:  are they unlocked? or easy to get unlocked?
Dec 11 08:47:57 <Termana> srbaker, what? The N900
Dec 11 08:47:59 <johnx> srbaker, the N900 or Zoom II?
Dec 11 08:48:01 <Termana> It is unlocked
Dec 11 08:48:04 <srbaker> the n900
Dec 11 08:48:12 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: those 70 bucks is dollar?
Dec 11 08:48:28 <Termana> srbaker, http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N900-Unlocked-Computer-Touchscreen/dp/B002OB49SW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=mobile&qid=1292057269&sr=1-1-catcorr
Dec 11 08:48:35 <DocScrutinizer> those 70bucks is gold nuggets
Dec 11 08:48:36 <srbaker> so i don't have to do anything to load my own stuff on it?
Dec 11 08:48:37 <Termana> All N900's are unlocked
Dec 11 08:48:38 <srbaker> that would be awesome
Dec 11 08:49:11 <Termana> Yes, it's "unlocked" in that sense as well
Dec 11 08:49:18 <Gh0sty> nono that IS awesome :p
Dec 11 08:49:29 <srbaker> okay
Dec 11 08:49:32 <srbaker> that sounds totally awesome.
Dec 11 08:49:42 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: I was silly enough to offer that dumping quotation, you missed your choice to take me by the word
Dec 11 08:49:56 <srbaker> i think i'm going to ditch my Nexus One
Dec 11 08:49:58 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: I don't mind :)
Dec 11 08:50:22 <Gh0sty> its clearly not your cup of soup so if you gotta make something against your will ... :p
Dec 11 08:50:55 <DocScrutinizer> I toldya about several valid ways to approach the problem yourself
Dec 11 08:51:07 <Gh0sty> yes yes I am looking ...
Dec 11 08:51:27 <Gh0sty> I first want to figure out some stuff like how to get it from dbus and from that netmon app
Dec 11 08:51:29 <DocScrutinizer> I stated you're a scripting guy, at least one of my solutions was scripting compliant
Dec 11 08:51:36 <Gh0sty> and then I'll decide on an approach
Dec 11 08:51:38 <DocScrutinizer> s/I/you/
Dec 11 08:51:39 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: you stated you're a scripting guy, at least one of my solutions was scripting compliant
Dec 11 08:51:53 <Gh0sty> yep you're right about that :)
Dec 11 08:52:21 <DocScrutinizer> you went on whining for a GUI
Dec 11 08:52:28 <johnx> Gh0sty, if you can script, you could probably knock up a python+Qt UI
Dec 11 08:52:41 <Gh0sty> i'm still learning py
Dec 11 08:52:51 <DocScrutinizer> you might have gotten away with asking me for a script PoC
Dec 11 08:52:52 <Gh0sty> i'm still a hardcore bash guy :p
Dec 11 08:52:52 <johnx> what do you script in usually?
Dec 11 08:52:59 <DocScrutinizer> but a GUI?? no way dude
Dec 11 08:53:16 <Gh0sty> johnx: I work on servers. usually require no gui ...
Dec 11 08:53:35 <Gh0sty> but in this case a gui would be a nice extra (I was just thinking out loud DocScrutinizer)
Dec 11 08:53:42 <johnx> Gh0sty, do the sh bit, then post that working thing to t.m.o and see if you can find someone to write the GUI
Dec 11 08:53:48 <johnx> but honestly, python isn't harder than sh
Dec 11 08:53:49 <lardman> anyone here know how the QPushButton works in its deepest darkest depths?
Dec 11 08:53:58 <srbaker> wow. i really like the n900
Dec 11 08:54:09 <srbaker> i'm assuming there are some binary blob drivers for the gsm and stuff, right?
Dec 11 08:54:31 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: yeah! It executes binary commands in a thing called CPU
Dec 11 08:54:31 <chx> srbaker: welcome to the club! we are in love with the N900/
Dec 11 08:54:33 <Termana> srbaker, not for the GSM, unless you include the blob you flash to the modem
Dec 11 08:54:36 <Gh0sty> johnx: yes thats what I'm looking into right now ... but first gotta study dbus a bit ... my knowledge about dbus is very limited ...
Dec 11 08:54:51 <Gh0sty> last week I found the dbus commands to turn off the modem without the wifi bits
Dec 11 08:55:00 <Termana> srbaker, GSM userspace has been opened (well, technically not Maemo's, but ofono works)
Dec 11 08:55:01 <johnx> srbaker, yeah, binaries for the GSM, the 3D stuff, and ... maybe something else I'm forgetting
Dec 11 08:55:09 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: ok, let's move up a layer or two of abstraction to how it changes colour when it's pressed
Dec 11 08:55:14 <Gh0sty> now lets try a trigger from dbus ... but I saw already some info around that
Dec 11 08:55:17 <srbaker> okay. so besides firmware anything not open?
Dec 11 08:55:24 <Termana> srbaker, BME
Dec 11 08:55:30 <Gh0sty> srbaker: the phone parts
Dec 11 08:55:35 <Termana> Gh0sty, WRONG
Dec 11 08:55:43 <lardman> srbaker: most ui apps have a closed veneer
Dec 11 08:55:43 <srbaker> what's BME?
Dec 11 08:55:49 <lardman> ~bme
Dec 11 08:55:49 <infobot> i guess bme is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME
Dec 11 08:55:58 <lardman> battery management entity anyway
Dec 11 08:56:13 <srbaker> ah
Dec 11 08:56:15 <srbaker> okay.
Dec 11 08:56:19 <srbaker> but mostly free/open
Dec 11 08:56:22 <srbaker> that's good enough
Dec 11 08:56:27 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: there's a thing called dbus-scripting. It's a comfy package to install
Dec 11 08:56:34 <lardman> the underlying stuff is free, but the uis are closed, which is annoying
Dec 11 08:56:38 <DocScrutinizer> configure it with a few files in /etc
Dec 11 08:57:01 <lardman> srbaker: but you can always replace stuff, and Meego should be coming soon in a non-official capacity
Dec 11 08:57:11 <srbaker> cool
Dec 11 08:57:21 <srbaker> is there tethering support?
Dec 11 08:57:46 <DocScrutinizer> srbaker: bme is a closed blob
Dec 11 08:57:46 <lardman> So really, how is the QPushButton colour change implemented? Does it use events as I'm trying to work out if my Python scripting code is receiving events or not
Dec 11 08:57:49 <Termana> srbaker, basically, it's free enough that you can load another distro on there - MeeGo, SHR, Debian, hell we have one person using Gentoo here
Dec 11 08:57:58 <DocScrutinizer> google for jrbme
Dec 11 08:58:10 <srbaker> cool. i'm a debian guy
Dec 11 08:58:10 <lardman> srbaker: yeah I imagine so, no idea how mind you
Dec 11 08:58:13 <johnx> srbaker, bt-dun, usb and wifi hotspot, though some people have trouble with hotspot I guess
Dec 11 08:58:40 <johnx> srbaker, now, the other distros aren't all that *usable* day-to-day for non-hackers ;)
Dec 11 08:58:58 <srbaker> wlel, i want to hak
Dec 11 08:59:00 <srbaker> hack
Dec 11 08:59:09 <Termana> johnx, that's not *entirely* true
Dec 11 08:59:13 <srbaker> but i don't want to miss a call because i was fucking with my phone
Dec 11 08:59:14 <srbaker> :P
Dec 11 08:59:25 <lardman> well don't have HAM open ;)
Dec 11 08:59:33 <DocScrutinizer> srbaker: that never works out
Dec 11 09:00:04 <Termana> lardman, the rule of thumb for everyone is to install FAPMAN anyhow
Dec 11 09:00:16 <DocScrutinizer> blargh
Dec 11 09:00:19 <Termana> lardman, it's faster than HAM and has a great name
Dec 11 09:00:20 <lardman> Termana: yeah, shame it can't do autoupdates though
Dec 11 09:00:22 <johnx> Termana, meaning Meego or one of the other things you listed?
Dec 11 09:00:46 <lardman> Termana: in fact it's the backend that bring the N900 to its knees, as I've seen the same effect (though not so bad) with fapman too
Dec 11 09:01:06 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: ack
Dec 11 09:01:18 <DocScrutinizer> apt-worker-thread to be specific
Dec 11 09:01:21 <Termana> johnx, I'm sure luke-jr would dispute that Gentoo is usable day-to-day. SHR nearly is with a couple of more things to be done to it. MeeGo, as soon as power management is added I expect the 1.2 release to be *OK*
Dec 11 09:01:58 <DocScrutinizer> hahaha
Dec 11 09:02:07 <johnx> Termana, so that's "not-yet-but-soon" on all counts?
Dec 11 09:02:15 <Termana> johnx, well I suppose :p
Dec 11 09:02:56 <Termana> With probably different rates of soon :p
Dec 11 09:03:02 <DocScrutinizer> Termana: s/*OK*/somewhat ok for a first show-off at a keynote (if you pray everything runs smoothly)/
Dec 11 09:03:55 <DocScrutinizer> hell, I'm not even sure maemo is *OK* for a day by day usage
Dec 11 09:04:25 <DocScrutinizer> still no cell broadcast support
Dec 11 09:04:27 * lardman waits for day-to-day usable Meego to hack on apps
Dec 11 09:04:36 <DocScrutinizer> for a first point that comes to mind
Dec 11 09:05:41 <lardman> anyone know how slot/signals are implemented in Qt C++?
Dec 11 09:05:54 <DocScrutinizer> the whole cal-ui and cal-history and contacts blobs are so... eeeew
Dec 11 09:06:16 <DocScrutinizer> and you talk about meego? being *OK*? on 1.2?
Dec 11 09:06:18 <DocScrutinizer> HAH
Dec 11 09:06:20 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: I don't see that dbus-scripting package in my current repositories (I have all I think: extras, extras devel and extras testing?
Dec 11 09:06:32 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Dec 11 09:06:35 <Gh0sty> or are there more obscure out there?
Dec 11 09:06:56 <Gh0sty> I see however something called dbus-script-extras but that appears a gui application by the description :p
Dec 11 09:07:34 <johnx> Gh0sty, use apt-cache search instead of the app manager
Dec 11 09:07:38 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: Personally, I find Maemo perfectly fine for day-to-day use and MeeGo 1.2 assuming it had power management sorted out would be fine for me as well.
Dec 11 09:07:57 <johnx> Termana, that makes you a hacker, hence the second part of my statement
Dec 11 09:08:03 <Gh0sty> fapman does not see some apps
Dec 11 09:08:04 <Gh0sty> ?
Dec 11 09:08:19 <johnx> Gh0sty, dunno. try the command line
Dec 11 09:12:46 <DocScrutinizer51> dbus-scripts with 'gui' dbus-scripts-settings
Dec 11 09:12:50 <Gh0sty> hmm the cli tools give a lot more indeed :p
Dec 11 09:12:56 <DocScrutinizer51> forget the gui, it's flawed
Dec 11 09:14:07 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# apt-cache search '.*dbus-script.*'
Dec 11 09:14:08 <DocScrutinizer> dbus-scripts - Run scripts on system dbus activity
Dec 11 09:14:09 <DocScrutinizer> dbus-scripts-settings - A GUI configuration program for dbus-scripts.
Dec 11 09:14:14 <Gh0sty> you meanth the package dbus scripts?
Dec 11 09:14:22 <Gh0sty> yes ok that I see through cli indeed :)
Dec 11 09:14:44 <Gh0sty> was assuming you could see all stuff through fapman ... guess not :(
Dec 11 09:15:04 <DocScrutinizer> forget fapman as well
Dec 11 09:15:14 <Gh0sty> why? :p
Dec 11 09:15:37 <DocScrutinizer> dunno why I removed it after 20 minutes, but for sure there was a reason
Dec 11 09:15:39 <Gh0sty> btw I just got a look at my sources.list
Dec 11 09:15:55 <Gh0sty> behind the extras it says fremantle-1.3
Dec 11 09:16:01 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Dec 11 09:16:04 <DocScrutinizer> normal
Dec 11 09:16:05 <Gh0sty> behind all the other extras it just says fremantle
Dec 11 09:16:09 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Dec 11 09:16:11 <Gh0sty> is that needed or not?
Dec 11 09:16:16 <DocScrutinizer> also normal, regrettably
Dec 11 09:16:28 <Gh0sty> so I should leave it?
Dec 11 09:17:03 <DocScrutinizer> nokia decided the testing and devel repo isn't worth keeping a 1.2 compliant version, when moving on to 1.3 :-(
Dec 11 09:17:36 <Gh0sty> oh but if I just put fremantle on the extras it'll work just fine?
Dec 11 09:17:40 <Gh0sty> only pull in more stuff ?
Dec 11 09:17:42 <DocScrutinizer> that's why I never can go back to my 1.2 system completely, when eventually I upgrade to 1.3
Dec 11 09:17:45 <Gh0sty> or is that just symlinked?
Dec 11 09:18:32 <DocScrutinizer> as my 1.2 system has several pkgs from devel that aren't available anymore, so restore will fail to intall them
Dec 11 09:19:21 <AnAnt_> so you were saying that Debian binary packages aren't necessarily compatible with Maemo , is that the same for source packages ?
Dec 11 09:19:25 <DocScrutinizer> a very weird thinking about backwards compatibility
Dec 11 09:19:29 <AnAnt_> johnx: ^
Dec 11 09:20:06 <johnx> AnAnt_, yes
Dec 11 09:20:27 <lardman> AnAnt_: they can't be compatible unless they are for the correct arch, and even then packages for Debian arm may have a different abi
Dec 11 09:20:45 <johnx> different software versions, different libraries available
Dec 11 09:20:57 <johnx> different interfaces (no alsa, for example)
Dec 11 09:21:02 <AnAnt_> lardman: erm, Debian has arm & armel archs in their repository if I recall properly
Dec 11 09:21:04 <johnx> GLES2 instead of GL
Dec 11 09:21:39 <DocScrutinizer> I heard it simply wasn't worth the effort for Nokia to keep the 1.2 devel & testing repo the same way they did for the extras repo
Dec 11 09:21:58 <DocScrutinizer> which sounds... err... odd, to be polite
Dec 11 09:22:26 <AnAnt_>  is   gstreamer on Maemo ?
Dec 11 09:23:16 * DocScrutinizer growls
Dec 11 09:23:29 <DocScrutinizer> now you got me started on this annoying topic again
Dec 11 09:24:23 <AnAnt_> so Maemo is sort of a spin-off from Debian ? It's not like the Ubuntu-Debian relation where Ubuntu syncs from Debian from time to time, and try to keep the diff small
Dec 11 09:24:40 <toadpole> hey anyone know a pc software like cutetube that'll allow me to queue up downloads?
Dec 11 09:24:41 <DocScrutinizer> I wonder if maemo/Nokia can't afford to hire one single competent system administrator who has a clue about how to manage system version migrations
Dec 11 09:25:56 <lardman> AnAnt_: yes Maemo uses GStreamer as the audio pipeline
Dec 11 09:26:52 <lardman> AnAnt_: while it probably was based on Debian originall (iirc)  (it uses debs afterall) there is no attempt to keep any compatibility now
Dec 11 09:27:22 <johnx> AnAnt_, it's been split from debian since 2007 or earlier
Dec 11 09:27:35 <lardman> I seem to remember that the 770 was binary compatible pretty much
Dec 11 09:27:40 <lardman> long time ago anyway
Dec 11 09:27:54 <AnAnt_> I see
Dec 11 09:29:14 <DocScrutinizer> what does ubintu? sync from debian? I wonder what that process might look like
Dec 11 09:29:57 <AnAnt> DocScrutinizer: during the development of a new release, there is a phase in which Ubuntu syncs/merges from Debian
Dec 11 09:30:30 <AnAnt> DocScrutinizer: but Ubuntu tries to minimize the merges by sending the patches to Debian
Dec 11 09:30:48 <DocScrutinizer> "look here, we got a buntkuh file for xy.so with 800 lines, and a debian file for same driver, with 900 lines. OK let's use the debian then" or throw dice?
Dec 11 09:31:20 <AnAnt> ?
Dec 11 09:31:27 <AnAnt> I don't understand
Dec 11 09:31:29 <johnx> DocScrutinizer, eh?
Dec 11 09:31:42 <DocScrutinizer> ther's exactly one way to "sync" and that's called sending patches upstream
Dec 11 09:32:11 <DocScrutinizer> and you hardly can do it evry once in a while
Dec 11 09:32:26 <bigbrovar> does anyone knows how I can get my gps coordinate from the N900. It only displays my location and the gps coordinate shows for a few secs and disappears. How can I get data about my gps coordinate?
Dec 11 09:32:29 <DocScrutinizer> we tried that on Openmoko, and it was a nightmare
Dec 11 09:35:27 <DocScrutinizer> bigbrovar: use any app that shows the lon/lat/alt values? E.G. location test app
Dec 11 09:36:02 <thp> is it possible to hide received sms (from eventlog + notifications) and process them using scripts?
Dec 11 09:36:06 <Termana> "ther's exactly one way to "sync" and that's called sending patches upstream" <- that's not true at all
Dec 11 09:36:08 <DocScrutinizer> or probably any of the other perceived 50 apps that can do that
Dec 11 09:36:49 <Termana> Another way you can sync is to start on the base, with a delta and eventually merge the updated base and sort back out your delta
Dec 11 09:36:53 <DocScrutinizer> thp: good question, seems somebody asked same thing yesterday
Dec 11 09:37:12 <thp> DocScrutinizer: was there an answer? should i look into the irclogs?
Dec 11 09:37:14 <bigbrovar> DocScrutinizer: I have no idea I just want to know if there is a way I can get my gps coordinate maybe some command I can run which would display this
Dec 11 09:38:08 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: for example - Android's Linux kernel does this, it is also the official Ubuntu process, the fact that they also merge things back upstream is irrelevant to the syncing process of Ubuntu
Dec 11 09:38:15 <thp> sivang: ping
Dec 11 09:38:17 <DocScrutinizer> thp: the answer was... unclear. I guessed I heard about some app triggering device erase on revception of a secret key sms
Dec 11 09:38:31 <johnx> bigbrovar, open up app manager. search for the word location
Dec 11 09:39:27 <DocScrutinizer> or the word gps
Dec 11 09:40:11 <bigbrovar> johnx: DocScrutinizer I would do that thanks
Dec 11 09:40:14 <DocScrutinizer> thp: so yes there seems to be a way
Dec 11 09:40:39 <thp> DocScrutinizer: thanks :)
Dec 11 09:40:41 <DocScrutinizer> but it's rather unclear what hat way would look like
Dec 11 09:42:36 <DocScrutinizer> thp: for the hiding part, that might be even more obscure
Dec 11 09:43:09 <thp> i'm thinking of a twitter wall app, just that posting is done via sms (i.e. "sms wall")
Dec 11 09:43:37 <thp> and that should ideally run directly from tv out, so i'd like to hide notifications and process the incoming events and display it in the app
Dec 11 09:43:47 <DocScrutinizer> I guess it's hard to intercept the inbound SMS before it triggers all sorts of evens somewhere inside some Nokia proprietary blob that deals with SMS
Dec 11 09:45:24 <thp> i mean, patching hildon-desktop to hide *all* notifications surely does the trick, but I don't want to go that far
Dec 11 09:45:28 <DocScrutinizer> you maybe can completely disable the process that usually deals with SMS (rtcom-*-foo), and get rid of notifications etc for *all* SMS
Dec 11 09:45:29 <lardman> Anyone familiar with power kernel here? I'd like to install u-boot with it, but I have version 46
Dec 11 09:47:05 <DocScrutinizer> umm, that's a problem mostly related to uBoot, not to pk
Dec 11 09:47:45 <DocScrutinizer> uBoot has to offer some tool to merge itself on head of kernel
Dec 11 09:47:47 <thp> found something for hiding the notifications: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=821709&postcount=5
Dec 11 09:47:58 <lardman> I'm just wondering if there's a way to install pk+uboot
Dec 11 09:49:55 <Jay_BEE> lardman: i don't think a separate uboot package exists for pk, so you will need to install pk 45 to get uboot
Dec 11 09:50:33 <lardman> I see u-boot-for-power-kernel in the repo?
Dec 11 09:51:02 <alterego> If you prepare the kernel you can make any kernel uboot enablleed.
Dec 11 09:51:24 <lardman> what do you mean by prepare?
Dec 11 09:52:59 <Jay_BEE> [01:49]	<lardman>	I see u-boot-for-power-kernel in the repo?  <-- O RLY?  but then I don't have extra-devel enabled...
Dec 11 09:53:39 <lardman> I'm just loathe to run random apps with kernel in the name if I don;'t know what they do ;)
Dec 11 09:57:53 <DocScrutinizer> thp: thanks - bookmarked :-D
Dec 11 09:58:51 <maybeHere> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/photogalleries/100524-new-species-handfish-walk-science-pictures/#/new-handfish-species-pink_20881_600x450.jpg deep ones!
Dec 11 10:00:41 * Jay_BEE fires up HAM to find u-boot for power-kernel
Dec 11 10:00:52 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: as mentioned above, uBoot is plumbed to head of kernel partition in NAND. So you need to somehow create a image file consisting of 1)uBoot, and 2)your preferred kernel, and flash that. On uBoot howto/faq this process should be described
Dec 11 10:01:11 <lardman> yeah I've just read that stuff on TMO
Dec 11 10:01:19 <lardman> along with warnings about hw revisions
Dec 11 10:01:50 <lardman> I think I'll just see if I can find v 45 and install that rather than messing about and creating my own
Dec 11 10:02:19 <alterego> why are copies from emmc to sd so fscking slow
Dec 11 10:02:28 <DocScrutinizer> bug
Dec 11 10:02:39 <alterego> Is it faster with the file manager than with cp?
Dec 11 10:02:45 <DocScrutinizer> fsckng slow is a euphemism
Dec 11 10:03:02 <DocScrutinizer> every now and then they literally freeze your device
Dec 11 10:03:18 <alterego> yeah
Dec 11 10:03:57 <alterego> I get maybe 1M ever 4 seconds
Dec 11 10:04:08 <alterego> with cp
Dec 11 10:04:22 <DocScrutinizer> seems thing go bonkers as soon as filesize to cp > free memory * N
Dec 11 10:04:37 <alterego> Heh
Dec 11 10:04:46 <alterego> I wonder if dd would be better
Dec 11 10:05:01 <DocScrutinizer> where N is any factor 0<N<50
Dec 11 10:05:24 <DocScrutinizer> rsync is said to be better, when given a bandwidth parameter
Dec 11 10:05:33 <DocScrutinizer> dd also froze my device
Dec 11 10:05:36 <DocScrutinizer> iirc
Dec 11 10:05:43 <alterego> you can do that with dd though right?
Dec 11 10:07:15 <DocScrutinizer> maybe dd with a small bs is ok. Never tested it
Dec 11 10:07:30 <alterego> I might give it a go in a bit.
Dec 11 10:07:44 <DocScrutinizer> it's somehow related to concurrent access, free memory, and swap
Dec 11 10:08:00 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: please report back on your findings
Dec 11 10:08:13 <alterego> will do
Dec 11 10:08:15 <DocScrutinizer> this being a major PITA
Dec 11 10:08:46 <alterego> indeed
Dec 11 10:09:34 <alterego> I'd really like pv about now ^.^
Dec 11 10:09:53 <Jay_BEE> hmm... new version of mhs
Dec 11 10:10:12 <DocScrutinizer> pv?
Dec 11 10:10:34 <alterego> pv measures throughput through a pip
Dec 11 10:10:38 <alterego> ~pipe
Dec 11 10:10:38 <infobot> somebody said pipe was in a odd location as well, but i dun mind much about that
Dec 11 10:10:58 <alterego> cat some file | pv | cat > somefile
Dec 11 10:11:10 <alterego> would tell you bandwidth
Dec 11 10:11:22 <alterego> You can also specify size to give you a progress indicator like say, wget.
Dec 11 10:11:30 <alterego> It's very useful :)
Dec 11 10:11:41 <alterego> I like to use it with nc :)
Dec 11 10:12:26 <alterego> I get about 1M/s doing cp with root
Dec 11 10:12:41 <alterego> Which is an improvement.
Dec 11 10:12:44 <Jay_BEE> new mhs adds patches for usb tethering... *moves on*
Dec 11 10:12:59 <alterego> What is this mhs you speak of?
Dec 11 10:13:07 <Jay_BEE> mobilehotspot
Dec 11 10:13:11 <alterego> Oh
Dec 11 10:14:18 <alterego> great, now rm has blocked whilst deleting a file from mmc
Dec 11 10:14:24 <alterego> s/mmc/micro sd/#
Dec 11 10:15:34 * Jay_BEE grabs the latest modRana while extras-devel is enabled...
Dec 11 10:16:32 <alterego> I think 1M/s is the best I'm gonna get.
Dec 11 10:17:19 <ShadowJK> I thought usb tethering was a out of the box feature ...
Dec 11 10:17:28 <alterego> ShadowJK: it is ;)
Dec 11 10:18:23 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: one version yes
Dec 11 10:18:34 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: inverse version no
Dec 11 10:18:41 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: would you be happy with my test results being based on: time dd blah blah ...
Dec 11 10:20:15 <DocScrutinizer> i'd be happy on a general advice how to make a `cp -rA /media/mmc1/someGBofMP3 ~user/MyDocs/mp3` not completely freeze the device
Dec 11 10:20:53 <ShadowJK> echo 1 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness before copy
Dec 11 10:21:00 <DocScrutinizer> nota bene even the cp itself froze
Dec 11 10:22:17 <DocScrutinizer> might got fixed with any of the 1.3 kernel patches (I recall comments like "kernel OOPS after lots of IO")
Dec 11 10:22:34 <ShadowJK> that results in reboot :-)
Dec 11 10:22:42 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Dec 11 10:22:44 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Dec 11 10:23:58 <ShadowJK> this cp issue is just mmc/sd slowing down to 50 kbyte/sec under non-sequential loads, which the emmc will be seeing under any kind of high IO pressure
Dec 11 10:24:14 <DocScrutinizer> what exactly does swappiness?
Dec 11 10:25:15 * alterego wonders why we have experimental qt but not qtm ..
Dec 11 10:26:29 <jacekowski> changes willingness of system to push data to swap
Dec 11 10:27:02 <jacekowski> it works very closely with vfs_cache_pressure
Dec 11 10:27:38 <ShadowJK> "It controls the level of page reclaim distress at which we decide to start reclaiming mapped pages."
Dec 11 10:28:04 * ieatlint has had alcohol
Dec 11 10:28:09 <ShadowJK> vfs_cache_pressure is mostly only relevant if you have large amounts of memory in slab...
Dec 11 10:29:27 <ieatlint> i've determined alcohol is good
Dec 11 10:29:37 <alterego> Heh
Dec 11 10:29:39 <alterego> Sometimes
Dec 11 10:29:51 <ieatlint> and an excellent way to deal with politics
Dec 11 10:30:21 <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: after reading ShadowJK's citation the 4th time, I tend to agree and get me some as well
Dec 11 10:30:37 <maybeHere> ieatlint: most politicians are way ahead of you
Dec 11 10:31:06 <ieatlint> maybeHere: from what i've seen, not enough
Dec 11 10:31:31 * DocScrutinizer ponders to ask wikipedia about definition of "page reclaim distress" and the meaning of "we decide to start reclaiming mapped pages."
Dec 11 10:32:20 <ieatlint> i may not be christian, but xmas ales are awesome
Dec 11 10:32:50 * DocScrutinizer got a itchy feeling that above citation is an antinom
Dec 11 10:32:55 * alterego wants to have a go at cross compiling a debian base system
Dec 11 10:33:30 <alterego> Is there something like deboostrap that'll do it for me ^.^
Dec 11 10:35:35 * alterego looks into dpkg-cross
Dec 11 10:35:55 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, at 100 memory is more equal, at 1, it's roughly speaking cache that's considered less worthy and thrown away
Dec 11 10:36:59 <ShadowJK> At 100 in normal use there'll be an almt constant low level of swap activity going on. At 1 there'll be almost no swap activity until system really runs out of other stuff it can use
Dec 11 10:37:52 <ShadowJK> a file copy is a pretty gigantic request for memory, at 100 it generates alot of swap activity, at 1 it will generate almost no swap activity
Dec 11 10:37:57 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, ok. Thought as much
Dec 11 10:39:38 <DocScrutinizer> so at 100 the idiot kswapd is swapping out cp's buffers instead of cp writing out to the real file
Dec 11 10:40:11 <DocScrutinizer> aiui
Dec 11 10:40:49 <DocScrutinizer> maybe cp needs a patch to mark its buffers as not swappable?
Dec 11 10:41:37 <ShadowJK> no everything else except cp gets swapped out
Dec 11 10:41:54 <DocScrutinizer> so cp should run just fine then
Dec 11 10:41:59 <ShadowJK> why it doesn't respond, all the gui is no longer in ram
Dec 11 10:42:11 <toresbe> hm, I managed to make my phone unbootable...
Dec 11 10:42:42 <ShadowJK> yeah except emmc bandwidth is 50k/s, takes awhile to complete a 90Meg transaction at that speed :)
Dec 11 10:42:43 <Termana> infobot, tell toresbe about flashing
Dec 11 10:43:30 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: that's not exactly the issue. When copying to eMMC form any other source, I get good bandwidth
Dec 11 10:43:42 <ShadowJK> oh?
Dec 11 10:43:56 <ShadowJK> like over network? doesn't count :)
Dec 11 10:44:05 <DocScrutinizer> bah
Dec 11 10:44:30 <ShadowJK> and mass-storage-mode doesn't count either :)
Dec 11 10:44:45 <toresbe> Termana: so... toresbe@cobol:~$ flasher-3.5 -x Downloads/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin --flash-only=kernel -f -R
Dec 11 10:45:09 <DocScrutinizer> case: cp via ass rage from uSD to eMMC -> freeze. cp via ass rage from uSD to external disk then to eMMC -> 12MB/s
Dec 11 10:45:13 * ShadowJK ponders making cp use fadvise() to hint the files are used once only
Dec 11 10:45:13 <toresbe> is that the right choice?
Dec 11 10:46:05 <ShadowJK> and untar big massive file emmc -> emmc = slow :)
Dec 11 10:46:13 <toresbe> or will that cause my system to catch fir?
Dec 11 10:46:15 <toresbe> ...e?
Dec 11 10:46:29 <DocScrutinizer> it won't work
Dec 11 10:46:46 <DocScrutinizer> VANILLA has no kernel to flash-only
Dec 11 10:47:36 <jacekowski> you can fix part of a problem
Dec 11 10:47:45 <jacekowski> set writeback times to high value
Dec 11 10:47:51 <jacekowski> so it waits
Dec 11 10:47:55 <toresbe> well, my problem is that I installed the power kernel, and now my multiboot configuration didn't recognize it
Dec 11 10:47:59 <jacekowski> and then writes everything at once
Dec 11 10:48:33 <toresbe> so... how do I get my system booting again? :)
Dec 11 10:48:46 <DocScrutinizer> toresbe: yeah, multiboot is a bitch. Kernel anyway is found in *COMBINED* img, not in *VANILLA*
Dec 11 10:49:08 <alterego> Well, looks like I can make a base debian system with hard fp support for the A8 :)
Dec 11 10:49:31 <alterego> If I Can make it bootable today and boot it on the N900, I might seriously work on something.
Dec 11 10:50:28 <DocScrutinizer> toresbe: *VANILLA* is basically only eMMC aka MyDocs
Dec 11 10:50:30 <toresbe> DocScrutinizer: many thanks :)
Dec 11 10:51:22 <toresbe> I'll just boot the Combined kernel, transfer my home directory to the SDHC card, and then completely reflash the device... I think it could do with a fresh install...
Dec 11 10:51:51 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: if I make decent progress, would you be willing to help me develop a debian system using meego components? ;)
Dec 11 10:51:54 <toresbe> DocScrutinizer: (the PIM data files are in the home directory, right?)
Dec 11 10:52:02 <MohammadAG> and /home(!)
Dec 11 10:52:12 <DocScrutinizer> home directory isn't affected by a standard rootfs flash
Dec 11 10:52:33 <MohammadAG> /opt is cleared though
Dec 11 10:52:41 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Dec 11 10:53:03 <DocScrutinizer> toresbe: (PIM) I think so
Dec 11 10:53:23 <DocScrutinizer> anyway you should use backup app to do a proper such backup
Dec 11 10:53:45 <DocScrutinizer> better than just hoping for files in ~
Dec 11 10:54:56 <DocScrutinizer> there are a few settings in fact that are stored in /etc et al, which will vanish on flashing rootfs
Dec 11 10:55:43 <toresbe> kthx. :)
Dec 11 10:55:53 <toresbe> weird. It just exits after telling me the release version.
Dec 11 10:55:55 <toresbe> Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2101
Dec 11 10:55:55 <toresbe> NOLO version 1.4.14
Dec 11 10:55:55 <toresbe> Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR0
Dec 11 10:55:57 <DocScrutinizer> not all of those are backup'd by backup app either. E.g LED patterns from LED pattern editor most likely are gone
Dec 11 10:56:12 <toresbe> and then immediately exits, and leaves the N900 to boot as usual.
Dec 11 10:56:21 <MohammadAG> toresbe, windows?
Dec 11 10:56:47 <toresbe> oooopie. I think I should be using -F rather than -x..
Dec 11 10:56:57 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Dec 11 10:57:03 <DocScrutinizer> I already wondered
Dec 11 10:57:22 <MohammadAG> -F image -f
Dec 11 10:59:23 <DocScrutinizer> toresbe: I also got big eyes looking at your prompt :-D
Dec 11 10:59:40 <toresbe> ?
Dec 11 10:59:48 <toresbe> Oh, the hostname? :)
Dec 11 10:59:51 <DocScrutinizer> your box called cobol?
Dec 11 11:00:00 <toresbe> yeah, all my laptops are programming languages ending in -ol
Dec 11 11:00:07 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
Dec 11 11:00:10 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
Dec 11 11:01:01 <toresbe> my desktop/servers are fortran, joss, python, simula, apl, logo...
Dec 11 11:01:17 <toresbe> I have a PDP-11 which of course has the hostname "basic"... :)
Dec 11 11:02:34 <Gh0sty> perhaps a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway ... something I've been wondering about since I bought the device
Dec 11 11:02:48 <Gh0sty> can't we do IP over the usb connection?
Dec 11 11:02:49 <toresbe> oooooh, it booted! \o/
Dec 11 11:03:07 <Gh0sty> in stead of connecting to wifi that I can ssh to it over the usb
Dec 11 11:05:32 <jaska> shouldnt the pdp be "bliss"?:)
Dec 11 11:05:32 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: see wiki, usb-networking
Dec 11 11:06:00 <toresbe> jaska: no, that's one of my VAXen :)
Dec 11 11:06:34 <DocScrutinizer> toresbe: you inherited all my hw museum?
Dec 11 11:07:52 <toresbe> More or less
Dec 11 11:08:51 <DocScrutinizer> heh, got one of these as well? http://www.tentacle.franken.de/m80/index.html
Dec 11 11:09:47 <toresbe> DocScrutinizer: only a scaled-down relative.
Dec 11 11:10:10 <toresbe> Actually, that was lost in a move. But I do have the keyboard still.. with its literal key
Dec 11 11:10:19 <DocScrutinizer> never knew there were scale-downs
Dec 11 11:10:48 <DocScrutinizer> except the windows-based emulator
Dec 11 11:11:06 <toresbe> it may have been a very distant relative. but it was made by Siemens and the terminal is identical.
Dec 11 11:11:13 <Jay_BEE> i wish there was an angry birds meetup nearby
Dec 11 11:12:20 <DocScrutinizer> did it know /boot, /start <program name>, /stop <process number> etc?
Dec 11 11:13:10 <MohammadAG> Jay_BEE, it'll end up as flame wars between iOS, Android, Symbian, and maemo users
Dec 11 11:13:21 <Jay_BEE> hehehe so true
Dec 11 11:14:30 <DocScrutinizer> toresbe: I used to code a lot in COBOL, when developing stuff for those M-series Siemens monsters
Dec 11 11:14:58 <toresbe> nice
Dec 11 11:14:58 <DocScrutinizer> in the 80s though
Dec 11 11:15:18 <DocScrutinizer> that's why I got curious about your prompt
Dec 11 11:25:51 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i've done that once
Dec 11 11:26:03 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i mean cobol, and it was painful
Dec 11 11:26:54 <DocScrutinizer-8> yeah, cobol is awkward
Dec 11 11:28:40 <DocScrutinizer-8> you need your special tricks to cope with it.  e.g. ". note ."
Dec 11 11:29:11 <DocScrutinizer-8> othewise you always miss these important .
Dec 11 11:30:17 <DocScrutinizer-8> also 8 used copy a lot
Dec 11 11:30:24 <DocScrutinizer-8> I
Dec 11 11:32:52 <DocScrutinizer-8> in the end I used a preprocessor plus my own data dictionary to manage the whole project's linkage sections
Dec 11 11:33:14 <DocScrutinizer-8> and interanl variable definitions
Dec 11 11:34:51 <DocScrutinizer-8> plus a lot of includes (external functions) written in assembler :-P
Dec 11 11:41:13 <DocScrutinizer> IF (a > b) THEN MOVE a TO c, ELSE MOVE b TO c . NOTE END-IF.
Dec 11 11:41:26 <DocScrutinizer> is something completely different than
Dec 11 11:41:34 <DocScrutinizer> IF (a > b) THEN MOVE a TO c. ELSE MOVE b TO c . NOTE END-IF.
Dec 11 11:48:53 <Jay_BEE> to bed I go.. zzz
Dec 11 11:52:47 <alterego> Okay, cross compiling glibc (same as latest ubuntu release) for arm cortex a8 with hardfp ..
Dec 11 11:54:19 <MohammadAG> anyone got sources for an N900 screen?
Dec 11 12:00:26 <alterego> MohammadAG: did you do ubuntu for N900?
Dec 11 12:00:47 <MohammadAG> alterego, 9.10 yes
Dec 11 12:01:00 <MohammadAG> it's not fully working, but it works
Dec 11 12:01:27 <alterego> I'm working on cross compiling a 10.10 base with cortex a8 hardfp optimizations
Dec 11 12:02:20 <MohammadAG> why not just use the precompiled image from ubuntu.com?
Dec 11 12:02:35 <alterego> because hardfp will make it run faster
Dec 11 12:02:57 <alterego> Hopefully a lot faster,
Dec 11 12:05:09 <alterego> With meego stack, I could call it meebuntu
Dec 11 12:05:19 <alterego> Or meetu
Dec 11 12:05:32 <alterego> I think meetu :)
Dec 11 12:05:41 <MohammadAG> LOL
Dec 11 12:06:04 <alterego> It should be api and abi compatible with meego armv7hl
Dec 11 12:06:43 <MohammadAG> or ubugo
Dec 11 12:06:47 <MohammadAG> sounds awkward
Dec 11 12:07:03 <MohammadAG> ubungo
Dec 11 12:08:08 <alterego> I prefer meetu :P
Dec 11 12:08:44 <MohammadAG> meethree
Dec 11 12:08:56 <alterego> If only I had a decent internet connection :D
Dec 11 12:14:11 <DocScrutinizer-8> source for screen?
Dec 11 12:15:17 <DocScrutinizer-8> metoo is copyrighted by me
Dec 11 12:15:24 <Corsac> metoo
Dec 11 12:18:27 <DocScrutinizer-8> MohammadAG: what is that screen source thing?
Dec 11 12:19:13 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer-8, need a new screen
Dec 11 12:19:20 <DocScrutinizer-8> ouch
Dec 11 12:19:21 <MohammadAG> there's this black area in mine
Dec 11 12:19:30 <MohammadAG> looks like water, not sure if it's water
Dec 11 12:19:32 <DocScrutinizer-8> shit
Dec 11 12:19:49 <DocScrutinizer-8> photo
Dec 11 12:20:59 * MohammadAG takes screenshot
Dec 11 12:21:01 <MohammadAG> :P
Dec 11 12:22:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> take your thumb out there, we don't want your fingerprint in that screenshot! Wait what did I say?
Dec 11 12:23:53 <DocScrutinizer-8> actually with that new technology MS has patented it would work: fingerprint reader
Dec 11 12:25:46 * lardman devours 5 days' worth of advent calendar chocolates
Dec 11 12:27:40 <DocScrutinizer-8> chocolate! roooaaaar
Dec 11 12:28:06 <lardman> it's revolutionary, those master chocolatiers at Lindt have developed a chocolate that is almost energy neutral because it takes so much effort to unwrap them
Dec 11 12:28:56 <DocScrutinizer> hahaha
Dec 11 12:30:16 <DocScrutinizer> I first time encounter a chocolate dependency I am used for tobacco so far only. And not a single piece of chocolate around. grrrr
Dec 11 12:31:00 <DocScrutinizer> even messing up my emglish grammer, but maybe you got what I meant anyway :-D
Dec 11 12:31:15 <lardman> :)
Dec 11 12:31:43 * lardman downloads mmade
Dec 11 12:31:53 <lardman> or even madde
Dec 11 12:35:15 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, http://i51.tinypic.com/zjz4zk.jpg
Dec 11 12:35:23 <MohammadAG> zoom in on the bottom left corner
Dec 11 12:35:41 <DocScrutinizer> without chocolate?
Dec 11 12:35:53 <lardman> Intel?
Dec 11 12:36:04 <Corsac> important notice / intel
Dec 11 12:36:58 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: hmm, hardly anything to see
Dec 11 12:37:06 <DocScrutinizer> impossible to tell what it is
Dec 11 12:37:17 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, you'll see a gray line
Dec 11 12:37:23 * MohammadAG curses the N8
Dec 11 12:37:37 <MohammadAG> of all camera phones, you'd think it'd have manual effing focus
Dec 11 12:37:57 <MohammadAG> looks better in meego :P
Dec 11 12:38:05 <DocScrutinizer> lemme put it that way: if it's really water, then you can fix it and don't need a new screen
Dec 11 12:40:49 <DocScrutinizer> if it's not water, then you will have to find out what's broken, as it's not reasonable to get a whole new screen
Dec 11 12:41:13 <DocScrutinizer> where screen == (LCD + touchpanel)
Dec 11 12:41:58 <DocScrutinizer> the tp is ~60EUR, the LCD ~90EUR iirc
Dec 11 12:42:40 <DocScrutinizer> you're better off to get a whole device, used maybe, for that money
Dec 11 12:45:29 <MohammadAG> N8 doesn't pick it up :/ http://i53.tinypic.com/m9xe2t.jpg
Dec 11 12:45:53 <DocScrutinizer-8> MohammadAG: get some rice, cook it, eat it. Then put the N900 on a heater or in your oven, @60C
Dec 11 12:47:22 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer-8, only photo it's best visible in, http://i56.tinypic.com/25hpch4.jpg
Dec 11 12:48:30 <MohammadAG> it actually goes along the bottom of the screen, not on the corner
Dec 11 12:50:47 <korhojoa> hm. i'd use silica gel and a desiccator
Dec 11 12:54:19 <SpeedEvil> At room temperature - even with 0 humidity - water evaporates slowly.
Dec 11 12:54:35 <SpeedEvil> I recommend an oven at 60C or so.
Dec 11 12:54:53 <korhojoa> true, but it doesn't carry the risk of damaging anything
Dec 11 12:54:55 <SpeedEvil> Do check before you put it in that the oven is really at 60C, not more
Dec 11 12:55:03 <korhojoa> also, regular oven at 60C, not likely
Dec 11 12:55:06 <SpeedEvil> I've had the n900 operating at 60C
Dec 11 12:55:12 <SpeedEvil> korhojoa: quite likely IME
Dec 11 12:55:24 <korhojoa> even the professional recirc ovens we use don't get even temperatures
Dec 11 12:55:26 <SpeedEvil> korhojoa: Most go down to 40C, for use rising bread
Dec 11 12:55:56 <korhojoa> i didn't mean that the temperature is low, i meant that it's not stable
Dec 11 12:56:02 <SpeedEvil> ah
Dec 11 12:56:08 <korhojoa> i've also had mine at 60C
Dec 11 12:56:24 <korhojoa> left it in the car for half an hour in qatar :/
Dec 11 12:56:40 <SpeedEvil> Mine was in scotland, in the greenhouse.
Dec 11 12:56:42 <SpeedEvil> :)
Dec 11 12:56:43 <korhojoa> picked the thing up and almost burnt my hand
Dec 11 12:57:48 <korhojoa> yeah. but the problem with the conventional oven is the ir heat too
Dec 11 13:01:54 <SpeedEvil> Good points.
Dec 11 13:04:19 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, you need to keep IR excessive radiation away from device. probably a good idea to place it inside a paper bag or box. OR simply place it into the air coming from your PC's fan, that's usually not too hot, and if you got a power monster it's still warm enough and for sure has no IR radiation
Dec 11 13:04:40 <korhojoa> not only does the temperature of the oven go 20 deg C to ~75 before the thermostat turns off and then it falls to around 50 before it clicks on again and goes up to around 70 again. repeat cycle.
Dec 11 13:05:10 <korhojoa> DocScrutinizer, the computer fan is a good idea.
Dec 11 13:05:28 <korhojoa> i use my computers regularily to dry clothes
Dec 11 13:05:35 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, 75° isn't dangerous yet. That's been taken into account when I suggested 60°
Dec 11 13:05:55 <korhojoa> no, not saying 75 is dangerous, just not liking the cycling
Dec 11 13:06:14 <korhojoa> plastic doesn't love that
Dec 11 13:06:50 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, I doubt that's water in MohammadAG 's screen. Probably mechanical defect from excessive pressure to the surface
Dec 11 13:07:55 <DocScrutinizer> this can destroy either spacers, or the polarization of the electrodes
Dec 11 13:07:58 <korhojoa> the lcd has been compressed so that some of the crystals are damaged
Dec 11 13:08:43 <korhojoa> that was supposed to have a "?" at the end.
Dec 11 13:08:52 <DocScrutinizer> there are no crystals. But there are invisible spacers that keep a certain distance between bottom and cover glass
Dec 11 13:09:19 <korhojoa> the screen isn't a lcd screen?
Dec 11 13:09:40 <DocScrutinizer> also there's a microstructure in the electrodes which I called polarization. If it gets deformed then the LCD won't work anymore
Dec 11 13:10:01 <DocScrutinizer> you can't break *liquid* crystals
Dec 11 13:10:43 <korhojoa> well. you can, but they should just reassemble
Dec 11 13:11:18 <korhojoa> also i thought it stood for a display that uses liquid and crystals, not liquid crystals
Dec 11 13:11:26 <korhojoa> how wrong was i :D
Dec 11 13:16:20 <Choom> they're both liquid AND crystal at the same time
Dec 11 13:17:04 <Choom> electricity makes them change their patern which in turn changes the polarization of the light that passes through them
Dec 11 13:23:34 <BCMM> Choom: no, they are in a wholly separate phase of matter which is neither solid nor liquid
Dec 11 13:24:14 <Choom> I never implied phases of matter
Dec 11 13:24:31 <Choom> actually I did, I said liquid
Dec 11 13:24:36 <BCMM> well, both liquid and crystal would imply something like slushy ice that contains both
Dec 11 13:25:29 <BCMM> whereas an LC is actually a separate non-classical state of matter
Dec 11 13:26:03 <DocScrutinizer-8> but technically it's a liquid
Dec 11 13:26:24 <DocScrutinizer-8> and can't break
Dec 11 13:26:39 <BCMM> no, it is not a liquid
Dec 11 13:27:08 <BCMM> is a different phase of matter, with certain characteristics of a liquid
Dec 11 13:27:45 <BCMM> they can be fluids though
Dec 11 13:27:45 <DocScrutinizer-8> so what do you think I ment by "technically"?
Dec 11 13:27:59 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer-8: the opposite of "sorta"
Dec 11 13:28:08 <BCMM> they are sorta liquids, but technically not liquids
Dec 11 13:28:44 <DocScrutinizer-8> physically not a liquid, but technically they are liquid
Dec 11 13:29:05 <BCMM> this is an odd use of technically
Dec 11 13:29:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> hmm
Dec 11 13:29:45 <BCMM> "liquid crystal" is usually classified as a state of matter, like solid, liquid or gas
Dec 11 13:30:00 <BCMM> they aren't both solid and liquid; they are in a state which has similarities with both
Dec 11 13:30:01 <DocScrutinizer-8> I handle them by same tools and methods I use for true liquids
Dec 11 13:30:15 <DocScrutinizer-8> same techniques
Dec 11 13:30:15 <BCMM> rather like the way a conventional liquid has similarities with both a gas and a solid
Dec 11 13:30:36 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer-8: you can also use plenty of models for both a gas and liquid
Dec 11 13:31:06 <DocScrutinizer-8> a model is physics, not technic
Dec 11 13:31:29 <BCMM> oh, an actual physical tool
Dec 11 13:31:51 <BCMM> i think we are disagreeing over the use of technically, actually
Dec 11 13:32:05 <BCMM> you mean to say they are liquids for practical purposes, right?
Dec 11 13:35:26 <MohammadAG> alterego, remind me why I should contribute to MeeGo when the stock apps don't build?
Dec 11 13:40:25 <alterego> MohammadAG: ?
Dec 11 13:40:39 <alterego> To submit patches to make them build :P
Dec 11 13:40:57 <MohammadAG> alterego, idk what's wrong
Dec 11 13:41:03 <MohammadAG> and stock apps should build
Dec 11 13:41:27 <alterego> Under what environment? Are you trying to build it under their SDK?
Dec 11 13:41:31 <MohammadAG> Package meegotouch was not found in the pkg-config search path.
Dec 11 13:41:35 <MohammadAG> No package 'meegotouch' found
Dec 11 13:41:35 <MohammadAG> yes, SDK
Dec 11 13:41:57 <alterego> I presume you've not got libmeegotouch installed ..
Dec 11 13:42:05 <MohammadAG> how do I install it?
Dec 11 13:43:37 <alterego> package manager presumably
Dec 11 13:43:47 <alterego> I think you should ask in #meego :P
Dec 11 13:44:38 <alterego> ghey, can't change the armel arch tag without breaking glibc compilation.
Dec 11 13:44:52 <alterego> Oh well, I'll use it for now
Dec 11 13:47:57 <MohammadAG> alterego, #meego seems like TMO the II
Dec 11 13:48:28 <MohammadAG> alterego, I expect them to know what madde is, since that's their default SDK
Dec 11 13:48:38 <MohammadAG> fail platform is fail
Dec 11 13:48:40 <crashanddie> Gun that shoots bullets at mach 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezqoaHsGOuQ
Dec 11 13:48:48 <alterego> no it isn't
Dec 11 13:48:57 <alterego> Well, maybe for apps but not platform
Dec 11 13:49:23 <alterego> You probably need the platform sdk to build core apps
Dec 11 13:50:07 <MohammadAG> alterego, when I asked for that I got a link to MADDE
Dec 11 13:50:26 <alterego> Heh
Dec 11 14:08:42 <xDaReaperx> Everywhere i go Facebook , gtalk , maemo .. everything looks dead
Dec 11 14:08:50 <xDaReaperx> no ones on the internet
Dec 11 14:09:40 <GAN900> Sshhh
Dec 11 14:09:45 <GAN900> It's Saturday.
Dec 11 14:35:18 <xDaReaperx> lol okay ...
Dec 11 14:39:34 <lcuk> GAN900, tell that to the person who phoned at 8am on saturday morning
Dec 11 14:43:05 <rcg> i have a problem that the changelog for one of my packages is not updated properly.. any ideas what to do?
Dec 11 14:43:06 <rcg> most probably ping X-Fade i suppose...
Dec 11 14:43:35 <lcuk> rcg ? just update the changelog?
Dec 11 14:45:06 <DocScrutinizer> o/ lcuk javispedro
Dec 11 14:45:18 <javispedro> morning
Dec 11 14:45:41 <lcuk> \o
Dec 11 14:46:20 * rcg1 curses his provider..
Dec 11 14:46:41 <rcg1> just in case this was lost due to the reconnect:
Dec 11 14:46:47 <rcg1> i have a problem that the changelog for one of my packages is not updated properly.. any ideas what to do?
Dec 11 14:46:51 <rcg1> most probably ping X-Fade i suppose...
Dec 11 14:46:55 <rcg1> i.e. the changelog on the package website
Dec 11 14:48:17 <lcuk> rcg1, which package (give link to packages page where its wrong would help..)
Dec 11 14:48:29 <rcg1> http://maemo.org/packages/view/vumeter
Dec 11 14:48:56 <lcuk> and what is wrong with it?
Dec 11 14:49:10 <rcg1> well the changelog is only displayed up to version 0.0.5
Dec 11 14:49:40 <javispedro> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/vumeter/0.10.1/
Dec 11 14:49:47 <javispedro> this one shows 0.10.1 changes only
Dec 11 14:52:11 <lcuk> and the 0.9 build is similar
Dec 11 14:52:24 <lcuk> only showing change in that version
Dec 11 14:54:11 <rcg> sigh..
Dec 11 14:57:06 <rcg> lcuk: sorry.. provider keeps disconnecting me :S
Dec 11 14:57:51 <lcuk> rcg sounds like what happens with your changelog
Dec 11 14:58:03 <lcuk> the "log" part of the name indicates you keep all the changes in that file
Dec 11 14:58:04 <javispedro> http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2010-12-11/
Dec 11 14:58:08 <lcuk> and not clean it for every version
Dec 11 14:58:20 <DocScrutinizer> the log is only for 0.0.x versions
Dec 11 14:58:32 <DocScrutinizer> starting with 0.1.0 it stalls
Dec 11 14:58:55 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, it does same on 0.9 too
Dec 11 14:59:37 <rcg> lcuk: actually, i do this the same way also with other packages... this is the first one which fails in that way
Dec 11 14:59:55 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: ??
Dec 11 15:00:17 <DocScrutinizer> it does what with 0.9?
Dec 11 15:00:57 <lcuk> rcg, well thats not the way that changelogs roll
Dec 11 15:01:09 <DocScrutinizer> I see versions in changelog on http://maemo.org/packages/view/vumeter/, from 0.0.1 .. 0.0.5. Next version is 0.1.0 and that's the first one missing
Dec 11 15:01:28 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, look in the source packages
Dec 11 15:01:38 <DocScrutinizer> why?
Dec 11 15:01:41 <lcuk> the changelog in 0.10 and 0.9 at least are both just a single entry
Dec 11 15:01:46 <lcuk> and not a log of all history
Dec 11 15:01:46 <rcg> afaik, i update the changelog for each version with the changes of that particular version and then the website/autobuilder whatever takes care of concatenating
Dec 11 15:02:09 <rcg> thats how it worked out with all packages i uploaded so far
Dec 11 15:03:14 <rcg> thats also how it worked out with versions 0.0.1-5
Dec 11 15:06:28 <DocScrutinizer> well, I guess somebody must have edited something, to make that version jump from 0.0.5 to 0.1.0
Dec 11 15:06:49 <DocScrutinizer> the automatism would have created 0.0.6
Dec 11 15:07:15 <DocScrutinizer> I guess somethink broke during that process
Dec 11 15:07:38 <DocScrutinizer> s/ink/ing/
Dec 11 15:07:38 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: I guess something broke during that process
Dec 11 15:07:54 <GAN900> lcuk, well, I'm at work, so meh. :P
Dec 11 15:07:59 <rcg> hmm.. just had a look at another package.. most probably i had a very big misunderstanding of how things should work and some robust mechanism in the autobuilder kept my pervious packages from failing in that way
Dec 11 15:08:47 <rcg> will give that a try
Dec 11 15:10:31 <GAN900> Why do people seem to think modular mobile devices are a good answer.
Dec 11 15:10:49 <rcg> i hope it doesn't mess things up more, though
Dec 11 15:11:09 <SpeedEvil> You mean modular hardware?
Dec 11 15:11:15 <SpeedEvil> Because they don't understand the costs.
Dec 11 15:11:57 <DocScrutinizer> heh, and implications EE wise
Dec 11 15:12:30 <SpeedEvil> It's OK for prototypes, where you don't care if the size, weight, and price double.
Dec 11 15:12:39 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Dec 11 15:13:26 <DocScrutinizer> ever wondered why iPhone's battery isn't 'modular' aka swappable? simple matter of size
Dec 11 15:13:59 <BCMM> and not just because that device isn't supposed to be user-anything-able?
Dec 11 15:15:58 <DocScrutinizer> nah, you need a cover for the electronics to close it to battery compartment, you need a case on all sides of battery cell, plus you need a 4th layer called back cover that's user-removable
Dec 11 15:16:34 <obsidieth> whats the go with web2sms and conversations
Dec 11 15:16:43 <DocScrutinizer> for a fixed battery you save the first 3 layers of plastic completely, plus you don't need fabcy latches etc for the cover
Dec 11 15:16:46 <obsidieth> my messages appear in there, but im not quite sure if messages i send aregoing through my web service or not.
Dec 11 15:16:56 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: you can do it pccard style
Dec 11 15:17:11 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: push it from side/bottom
Dec 11 15:17:36 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, will save one layer, maybe
Dec 11 15:19:06 <DocScrutinizer> plus the fancy latches
Dec 11 15:19:25 <RST38h> Ahha!  Riots!
Dec 11 15:20:01 <DocScrutinizer> there's no way to delay that trouble coming every day [FZ]
Dec 11 15:22:06 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiVFfOOm_GI
Dec 11 15:22:10 <javispedro> morning RST38h
Dec 11 15:22:54 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: And you add a seal, which can let in shit, or fall off.
Dec 11 15:27:52 <RST38h> mourning javispedro
Dec 11 15:28:31 <RST38h> javispedro: I do suspect that the accelerometer does not work in some games for the other reason than bad calibration
Dec 11 15:28:58 <javispedro> RST38h: x-plane does work a bit better
Dec 11 15:29:14 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: and this nice version as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naFQ7KG_nHg&feature=related
Dec 11 15:30:27 <RST38h> javis: XPlane worked for me before
Dec 11 15:30:43 <RST38h> javis: Check out the Hawx, has got weird touch screen and steering problems
Dec 11 15:31:50 <RST38h> javis: Also check the Ground Effect, accelerometer broken there
Dec 11 15:45:06 <sivang> thp: pong
Dec 11 15:45:31 <SpeedEvil> spot price of virgin that is
Dec 11 15:45:33 <SpeedEvil> oops
Dec 11 15:46:18 <sivang> thp: I have to reelase my screen session, mail me :) cheers
Dec 11 16:07:08 <MohammadAG> 32wd_to :/
Dec 11 16:07:17 <rcg> lcuk: well, it was my fault to update the changelog properly. thanks for the hint.
Dec 11 16:07:42 <lcuk> rcg, \o
Dec 11 16:33:46 <NooBmonk3y> afternooooooooooon alls
Dec 11 16:43:55 <MohammadAG> fuck
Dec 11 16:44:01 <MohammadAG> device storage full
Dec 11 16:44:04 <MohammadAG> on a saturday
Dec 11 16:55:09 <Necc> fast question: if i want to make custom icon to my .desktop shortcut, what size of icons (.png files) do i need?
Dec 11 16:57:28 <MohammadAG> any, hildon should scale them down properly
Dec 11 16:57:38 <MohammadAG> just put them in /usr/share/pixmaps
Dec 11 16:57:57 <NooBmonk3y> lol i musta gone wrong then :P
Dec 11 16:58:03 <NooBmonk3y> as it's clipped healthchecks ;)
Dec 11 16:58:06 <Necc> so enough if i make an 160x160px image (for example) and hildon will do the rest automatically?
Dec 11 16:58:52 <MohammadAG> yes, not sure about pre maemo 5, but m5 does it fine
Dec 11 16:59:20 <MohammadAG> i use 164x164 sometimes
Dec 11 17:04:30 <lcuk> m5 does not always scale
Dec 11 17:04:36 <lcuk> so use the expected size
Dec 11 17:04:39 <MohammadAG> in the menu, it does
Dec 11 17:04:45 <lcuk> on the add shortcut dialog for desktop
Dec 11 17:04:48 <lcuk> it is unscaled
Dec 11 17:04:50 <lcuk> and looks odd
Dec 11 17:06:13 <javispedro> also, using the right size saves cpu time and memory.
Dec 11 17:06:15 <javispedro> so, please do.
Dec 11 17:13:18 <Necc> well it worked with larger size then needed, and not looks uggly
Dec 11 17:13:24 <Necc> *ugly
Dec 11 17:14:03 <MohammadAG> Necc, apparently, it's not the right way :P
Dec 11 17:15:24 <Necc> when i throwed tons of icons from amsn-source package into /opt/usr/share/icons all i got is the default blue square icon
Dec 11 17:18:33 <javispedro> interesting
Dec 11 17:18:50 <javispedro> the way the media player sends stuff to tvout is done with a xv extension
Dec 11 17:18:56 <lcuk> Necc, check the order which you copy icons through
Dec 11 17:19:00 <alterego> We knew that.
Dec 11 17:19:00 <javispedro> so no need to fiddle with omapfb..
Dec 11 17:19:04 <alterego> I thought
Dec 11 17:19:06 <lcuk> it makes a difference, there have been numerous fixes attempted
Dec 11 17:20:54 <MohammadAG> javispedro, it's actually gstreamer, not the media player itself afaik
Dec 11 17:23:27 <javispedro> MohammadAG: I think not, as all the gst stuff is open...
Dec 11 17:23:45 <MohammadAG> mplayer does the same i think
Dec 11 17:23:57 <MohammadAG> or i'm mistaken
Dec 11 17:24:18 <javispedro> mplayer doesn't use gst. either way, you can do it for any xv surface with xvattr
Dec 11 17:28:34 <lcuk> javispedro, whats the need for video out?
Dec 11 17:28:40 <lcuk> on maemo its automatic
Dec 11 17:28:56 <javispedro> note I'm talking about the "trick" media player does
Dec 11 17:29:27 <javispedro> it shows the videos full screen, and limited by the horrible 800x480->tvout scaling
Dec 11 17:29:31 <javispedro> *not limited
Dec 11 17:29:58 <lcuk> ?
Dec 11 17:29:59 <javispedro> previously I thought mediaplayer talked with omapfb by itself, now I believe it talks using xv attributtes
Dec 11 17:30:01 <lcuk> trick?
Dec 11 17:30:07 <lcuk> it is normal operation?
Dec 11 17:30:38 <javispedro> not for any xv surface..
Dec 11 17:31:18 <lcuk> javispedro, hm
Dec 11 17:31:22 <lcuk> i never noticed any issue
Dec 11 17:32:01 <javispedro> say, if you use xv to render a 200x200 video, normal tvout mode clones the entire 800x480 screen
Dec 11 17:32:49 <lcuk> javispedro, but xv already scales up
Dec 11 17:33:14 <lcuk> or are you saying you get a postage stamp in the corner?
Dec 11 17:33:18 * lcuk never experienced that
Dec 11 17:33:32 <javispedro> what I mean is that uses different scales for tvout and n900 screen
Dec 11 17:33:45 <javispedro> with the tvout resolution being decoupled from the n900 one
Dec 11 17:34:16 <javispedro> on PAL for ex., it will use all 576 lines
Dec 11 17:34:26 <Jay_BEE> good morning (ugt)
Dec 11 17:34:40 <lcuk> javispedro, but it will fill the screen in both cases?
Dec 11 17:34:43 <Arkenoi> actually i'd prefer VGA out to composite video
Dec 11 17:34:59 <javispedro> lcuk: not if your tv is 4:3
Dec 11 17:35:10 <lcuk> javispedro, hm? it does
Dec 11 17:35:13 <lcuk> I have 4:3 here
Dec 11 17:35:19 <lcuk> and the projector I used to have was 4:3
Dec 11 17:35:29 <javispedro> lcuk: you see top & bottom black bars when using n900 in an application (eg. the desktop)?
Dec 11 17:35:31 <DocScrutinizer> Arkenoi: alas there was no space left for a standard VGA sub-D connector
Dec 11 17:35:31 <lcuk> it just stretches as much as
Dec 11 17:35:48 <javispedro> lcuk: now play a 4:3 video
Dec 11 17:35:51 <lcuk> javispedro, a little, but thats expected since the source isnt 4:3
Dec 11 17:35:54 <javispedro> using builtin mediaplayer
Dec 11 17:36:04 <javispedro> watch the bars disappear
Dec 11 17:37:38 * lcuk will test a little later on javispedro 
Dec 11 17:37:56 <lcuk> hiya Meizirkki \o
Dec 11 17:37:57 <Arkenoi> DocScrutinizer, a small one with special cable is ok
Dec 11 17:38:06 <Meizirkki> Hey lcuk
Dec 11 17:38:58 <javispedro> lcuk: what I'm talking about is that by default the n900 is on what on pc you'd call "clone mode". both screens are set to the same resolution.
Dec 11 17:39:07 <javispedro> when playing a video using mediaplayer
Dec 11 17:39:32 <javispedro> it is in "extend mode" instead, both screens not necessarily having the same resolution
Dec 11 17:39:48 <lcuk> javispedro, I will check as I say
Dec 11 17:40:06 <javispedro> (this is not entirely true as even in clone mode there's a rescaling as pal resolution is fixed)
Dec 11 17:40:31 <lcuk> most amusing is sending different data to videoout as on the touchscreen :)
Dec 11 17:40:39 <javispedro> eh.. yeah.
Dec 11 17:40:41 <javispedro> I remember you saying that
Dec 11 17:40:45 <javispedro> why you need to check it then? =)
Dec 11 17:40:46 <GAN900> mirrored
Dec 11 17:41:02 <lcuk> javispedro, checking what happens with lower resolution data
Dec 11 17:41:15 <lcuk> i know xv just stretches as much as feasible
Dec 11 17:41:18 <lcuk> on screen
Dec 11 17:41:28 <lcuk> but i never tried it with video out effect
Dec 11 17:41:33 <lcuk> i just took it for granted it tried best
Dec 11 17:42:08 <lcuk> so I will run at 400x300 mode
Dec 11 17:42:14 <lcuk> and see :)
Dec 11 17:42:32 <javispedro> I do not think this applies to all xv surfaces by default -- just that mediaplayer sets a special bit.
Dec 11 17:42:40 <lcuk> well thats what I will try
Dec 11 17:42:47 <lcuk> since I dont try and set special bit
Dec 11 17:42:50 <lcuk> it will confirm
Dec 11 17:42:55 <javispedro> ok :)
Dec 11 17:43:34 <DocScrutinizer> I'd be more interested in video out color depth
Dec 11 17:43:37 <javispedro> and what happens when you defocus the window -- if it's in extend mode, it will probably keep on rendering on tvout
Dec 11 17:43:46 <DocScrutinizer> looks like 15bit to me :-/
Dec 11 17:44:03 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, all maemo RGB is 15 bit
Dec 11 17:44:06 <lcuk> so thats not surprising
Dec 11 17:44:14 <javispedro> or 16 iirc?
Dec 11 17:44:20 <lcuk> yuv is by definition a 24bit format
Dec 11 17:44:21 <DocScrutinizer> crap for video watching
Dec 11 17:44:27 <lcuk> ok, offbyone error
Dec 11 17:44:40 <javispedro> not sure about the tvout one :P
Dec 11 17:44:59 <lcuk> will verify that too then
Dec 11 17:45:02 <lcuk> fussy buggers
Dec 11 17:45:08 <javispedro> haha
Dec 11 17:45:19 <javispedro> sorry but you're the one with sample xv applications lcuk ;)
Dec 11 17:45:37 <lcuk> indeed
Dec 11 17:45:38 <javispedro> I just have some omapfb banging stuff.
Dec 11 17:45:47 <lcuk> speaking of this
Dec 11 17:45:52 <javispedro> up until now I thought mediaplayer or other propietary app fiddled with omapfb,
Dec 11 17:45:53 <lcuk> i never got round to curing: http://liqbase.net/liq.20100820_comparison_yuv_rgb_x11.htm
Dec 11 17:46:04 <javispedro> if it's xv attributtes, this means the implementation of this should be OSS and on Xorg
Dec 11 17:46:16 <javispedro> so I could "play by the rules"
Dec 11 17:47:02 <javispedro> hehe
Dec 11 17:47:09 <javispedro> don't ever lose the extra green bit!
Dec 11 17:47:18 <lcuk> yeah
Dec 11 17:47:19 <javispedro> ;)
Dec 11 17:47:47 <javispedro> afaik It's a human eye thing, being more sensible to green's depth than any other channel
Dec 11 17:47:52 <lcuk> yeah
Dec 11 17:51:02 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, watching video from N900 is basically no fun at all
Dec 11 17:51:39 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, ?
Dec 11 17:51:45 <DocScrutinizer> 3*7 bit colordepth is bare minimum for natural video
Dec 11 17:53:20 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, YUV mode is output as 24bit
Dec 11 17:53:27 <lcuk> happily most videos use YUV to store things
Dec 11 17:53:35 <lcuk> i just went downstairs and checked
Dec 11 17:54:03 <lcuk> so, if you are seeing things rendered onto tvout as 16bit, its because the video player you are using is using a RGB surface
Dec 11 17:54:08 <lcuk> instead of xv mode
Dec 11 17:54:20 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Dec 11 17:54:49 <lcuk> happily the gradients used in that calc example are really clear and easy to tell the difference with
Dec 11 17:54:55 <lcuk> and theres no banding on my tv
Dec 11 17:55:26 <DocScrutinizer> NB most modern TV do auto-scaling
Dec 11 17:57:04 <DocScrutinizer> IE if you offer 400 lines instead of 512, it will happily zoom up to display a full screen from 400 lines
Dec 11 17:58:52 <javispedro> btw, I just tested it again
Dec 11 17:58:57 <javispedro> the camera application also uses the "trick"
Dec 11 17:59:15 <DocScrutinizer> of course
Dec 11 17:59:30 <DocScrutinizer> the viewfinder is video playback basically
Dec 11 17:59:59 <javispedro> xv actually.
Dec 11 18:00:19 <javispedro> tme to check if mplayer does...
Dec 11 18:15:48 <javispedro> well, mplayer does, but only when you set it to fullscreen, so it must be aware of this
Dec 11 18:17:33 <javispedro> well, gotta go. cya.
Dec 11 18:21:37 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: nonsense
Dec 11 18:21:47 <luke-jr> I watch movies on my N900 all the time these days
Dec 11 18:21:54 <luke-jr> using the video out thing
Dec 11 19:07:23 <KotCzarny> hi.
Dec 11 19:07:37 <KotCzarny> how can i make application manager use my proxy settings?
Dec 11 19:07:58 <KotCzarny> browser works, appman doesn't
Dec 11 19:08:38 <lcuk> . I can always using the terminal by doing export http_proxy and do an apt-get update but i dont think it would be ideal. anyone else having this problem?
Dec 11 19:08:53 <lcuk> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37713
Dec 11 19:09:03 <KotCzarny> apt-get as a regular user without sudo or anything?
Dec 11 19:09:27 <KotCzarny> unless i t's added by default
Dec 11 19:10:40 <KotCzarny> lcuk, i use ip for proxy address
Dec 11 19:11:36 <lcuk> KotCzarny, try it?
Dec 11 19:11:57 <KotCzarny> no go
Dec 11 19:12:00 <KotCzarny> asks for password
Dec 11 19:12:06 <KotCzarny> pressing enter returns
Dec 11 19:13:49 <lcuk> how did you install stuff before?
Dec 11 19:13:59 <KotCzarny> i had a broadband
Dec 11 19:15:08 <lcuk> ahh
Dec 11 19:42:46 <crashanddie> MohammadAG: pong
Dec 11 19:43:04 <MohammadAG> crashanddie, pm
Dec 11 19:53:16 <Termana> good morning
Dec 11 19:53:46 <NooBmonk3y> evenin!
Dec 11 19:54:08 <crashanddie> morning Termana
Dec 11 19:54:19 <crashanddie> ~ugt
Dec 11 19:54:20 <infobot> i guess ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
Dec 11 19:54:39 <NooBmonk3y> lol
Dec 11 19:54:48 * NooBmonk3y must be behind the times ;)
Dec 11 19:54:59 <lcuk> not really NooBmonk3y
Dec 11 19:55:04 <lcuk> its just crashanddie being picky :P
Dec 11 19:55:17 * lcuk said evening also in #meego 
Dec 11 19:55:23 <NooBmonk3y> ;P thats normally doc's job ;)
Dec 11 19:55:29 <NooBmonk3y> hehehe
Dec 11 19:57:06 <Termana> It's 6:30am here. Normally I'd be asleep for another couple of hours - but I accidentally fell asleep early last night :p
Dec 11 19:58:58 * lcuk accidentally couldn't fall asleep last night
Dec 11 19:59:23 <lcuk> everytime I tried something banged or shook or snored or rang or crashed or beeped
Dec 11 19:59:38 <NooBmonk3y> lol!
Dec 11 20:00:04 <lcuk> NooBmonk3y, what would you do to someone who tried social calling at 8am on a saturday morning?
Dec 11 20:01:33 <NooBmonk3y> lcuk, ignore them :P
Dec 11 20:01:50 <NooBmonk3y> allthough i was up at 8am, getting water to ease the hangover :P
Dec 11 20:01:57 <NooBmonk3y> social calling? ie skype etc? :P
Dec 11 20:01:57 <lcuk> heh
Dec 11 20:02:07 <lcuk> well I tried that and hit the wrong button ont he phone
Dec 11 20:02:18 <lcuk> phone call waking whole house
Dec 11 20:02:37 <NooBmonk3y> i've never really got on with skype etc.... N900 battery dies to quick if i leave it on, and pc isn't on all the time, so i'm rarely online
Dec 11 20:02:42 <NooBmonk3y> lol!
Dec 11 20:03:13 * lcuk leaves phone on normally for emergency practical purposes
Dec 11 20:03:36 <lcuk> but does not expect to be woken by it
Dec 11 20:04:22 <NooBmonk3y> hehehe, me too
Dec 11 20:04:38 <NooBmonk3y> darn bank tried to get hold of me 18 times on friday, was not a happy bunny
Dec 11 20:04:49 <NooBmonk3y> if i dont answer its cos i'm busy, and they never leave messages!
Dec 11 20:05:40 <lcuk> well after the 18th time they decided to reject the anonymous deposit someone wanted to make into your account :P
Dec 11 20:05:57 <ieatlint> lcuk: the answer to someone calling you at 8am on a saturday to say high is to call them at 3am on a sunday to say hi
Dec 11 20:06:08 <lcuk> ieatlint, 3am is too early
Dec 11 20:06:14 <lcuk> people are still getting in from club
Dec 11 20:06:18 <lcuk> but I like your thinking
Dec 11 20:06:20 <Termana> :p
Dec 11 20:06:22 <ieatlint> hehe
Dec 11 20:06:46 <ieatlint> only good can come from escalating it
Dec 11 20:07:13 <lcuk> point taken
Dec 11 20:07:24 <lcuk> but afaik this person leaves his phone in another part of house
Dec 11 20:08:04 <ieatlint> that's ok, the fun of revenge is often thinking of what you'd do, not doing it
Dec 11 20:08:10 <ieatlint> the latter has consequences :(
Dec 11 20:13:15 <lcuk> ieatlint, only in weekend lie ins :P
Dec 11 20:48:17 <nox-> moin
Dec 11 21:21:48 <NooBmonk3y> hmmm does qtirreco work for anyone?
Dec 11 21:21:57 <NooBmonk3y> can't seem to get it to do anything :|
Dec 11 21:23:03 <lcuk> NooBmonk3y, did you configure it for your tv
Dec 11 21:24:35 <NooBmonk3y> yeah tried all my remotes, got a sanyo tv, virgin box (cant see one for that) and panasonic surround sound, neither of the two with available remotes work :|
Dec 11 21:26:27 <MohammadAG> get a camera, point the IR at it, see if it's emitting a signal
Dec 11 21:28:15 <beford> mine does not seem to be emitting a signal
Dec 11 21:29:26 <NooBmonk3y> cant see any red lights etc or flashes anywhere
Dec 11 21:29:34 <NooBmonk3y> might explain why pykake does not work either
Dec 11 21:32:52 <MohammadAG> NooBmonk3y, I think qtirreco somehow fucks up lircd's config file
Dec 11 21:33:08 <MohammadAG> I found a fix on tmo for it once, can't seem to remember where, but I use irreco now
Dec 11 21:33:17 <NooBmonk3y> hmmm ok faq says when typing ps in terminal
Dec 11 21:33:24 <NooBmonk3y> /usr/sbin/lircd --device=/dev/lirc0 --listen=8765 should appear
Dec 11 21:33:24 <NooBmonk3y> i cant see it in there
Dec 11 21:33:24 <NooBmonk3y> so lirc not running?
Dec 11 21:33:37 <NooBmonk3y> ahh theres a different app? lol
Dec 11 21:34:14 <MohammadAG> irreco-for-n900 or something
Dec 11 21:34:23 <MohammadAG> it's in GTK instead of Qt, but it works better for me
Dec 11 21:34:26 <Jay_BEE> i had qtirreco working in the pr1.2 days... i haven't tried it since pr1.3
Dec 11 21:34:43 <NooBmonk3y> :P
Dec 11 21:34:55 <NooBmonk3y> dloading the irreco one
Dec 11 21:34:55 <NooBmonk3y> will try that
Dec 11 21:35:26 <Jay_BEE> suppose i could walk into the living room and see if it will still work with my tv, which i never watch...
Dec 11 21:44:48 <rcg> lcuk: just for the case anyone is having a similar issue: i think the problem was not related to the changelog being "one liners" - i.e. only containing the changes for the particular version - but was caused by me not updating the time and date fields in the changelog.
Dec 11 21:45:35 <rcg> dunno actually why i forgot to update those fileds
Dec 11 21:45:49 <lcuk> rcg, cleaning your changelog down for each release does a disservice to anyone wanting to know what happens in your system
Dec 11 21:45:50 <rcg> *fields
Dec 11 21:46:19 <lcuk> and would have made it clearer as to what the actual problem was
Dec 11 21:46:29 <lcuk> not everyone uses the web page to view changes
Dec 11 21:46:30 <rcg> lcuk: yes, didn't know i could keep multiple entries
Dec 11 21:47:15 <rcg> lcuk: thanks for pointig me to the correct direction :)
Dec 11 21:47:39 <lcuk> \o
Dec 11 21:52:30 <NooBmonk3y> meh not working with irreco either
Dec 11 22:01:40 <Jay_BEE> welp... qtirreco no workee... reinstalling
Dec 11 22:02:39 <NooBmonk3y> MohammadAG, !! http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=427447&postcount=40 that was the post?
Dec 11 22:02:47 <NooBmonk3y> ran that and now qtirreco kinda works
Dec 11 22:02:59 <NooBmonk3y> i managed to turn of my tv from about 3ft away :P
Dec 11 22:03:44 <NooBmonk3y> meh i sit about 6ft away lol
Dec 11 22:06:05 <Jay_BEE> cool
Dec 11 22:06:51 <Jay_BEE> NooBmonk3y: which kernel are you running?
Dec 11 22:06:58 <NooBmonk3y> power40
Dec 11 22:07:10 <Jay_BEE> ok i'm running 45
Dec 11 22:07:22 <MohammadAG> wtf?
Dec 11 22:07:25 <NooBmonk3y> Jay, did you try what was in that post?
Dec 11 22:07:26 <MohammadAG> upgrade to 46!
Dec 11 22:07:39 <NooBmonk3y> MohammadAG, why change if it is working? :P
Dec 11 22:08:03 <Jay_BEE> NooBmonk3y: ps revealed that lirc was running
Dec 11 22:08:04 <MohammadAG> NooBmonk3y, with your logic I'd be on a 3310
Dec 11 22:08:33 <NooBmonk3y> MohammadAG, ;)
Dec 11 22:08:35 <Jay_BEE> [14:06]	<MohammadAG>	upgrade to 46!  <-- and lose uboot and no longer be able to run meego?! no way!
Dec 11 22:08:46 <NooBmonk3y> Jay_BEE, not tried uboot and meego yet
Dec 11 22:08:52 <Jay_BEE> ^run^dual boot
Dec 11 22:08:53 <NooBmonk3y> a bit scared as i still have nitdroid rrunning
Dec 11 22:09:09 <MohammadAG> Jay_BEE, he doesn't have uboot anyways, and I'm on 45 :P
Dec 11 22:09:19 <Jay_BEE> i'll play with nitdroid when it becomes uboot capable
Dec 11 22:09:22 <NooBmonk3y> and multiboot etc + uboot kinda scares me with some of the stories
Dec 11 22:09:28 <MohammadAG> I've been pondering how to get a 46 image with uboot
Dec 11 22:09:31 <NooBmonk3y> meh havent used nitdroid in ages
Dec 11 22:09:39 <NooBmonk3y> wanna remove it but too lazy to find out how to do it safely
Dec 11 22:12:22 <Jay_BEE> blah... still no workee
Dec 11 22:12:24 <MohammadAG> NooBmonk3y, sudo nitdroid-uninstaller
Dec 11 22:12:38 <MohammadAG> NooBmonk3y, and 46 has no uboot, so it's not scary :P
Dec 11 22:12:48 <NooBmonk3y> did nothing
Dec 11 22:12:55 <NooBmonk3y> meh, but multiboot is still there
Dec 11 22:13:12 <NooBmonk3y> oh
Dec 11 22:13:14 <NooBmonk3y> was already root
Dec 11 22:13:19 <NooBmonk3y> didnt need sudo lol
Dec 11 22:16:06 <NooBmonk3y> Ok nitdroid removed....
Dec 11 22:16:32 <NooBmonk3y> multiboot is gone, yay!
Dec 11 22:18:49 * GAN900 doesn't get nitdroid.
Dec 11 22:19:11 <GAN900> Could be because Android just makes me rage, though.
Dec 11 22:20:03 <einsteinchen> hey @ all
Dec 11 22:21:11 <NooBmonk3y> meh, upgrading power kernel :|
Dec 11 22:21:21 <NooBmonk3y> hi einsteinchen
Dec 11 22:22:10 <einsteinchen> btw power kernel, is ist save to use the power kernel?
Dec 11 22:22:55 <einsteinchen> because i want to tether via my n900
Dec 11 22:26:36 <NooBmonk3y> ok 46 installed
Dec 11 22:26:39 <NooBmonk3y> save?
Dec 11 22:26:43 <NooBmonk3y> safe?
Dec 11 22:26:53 <Jay_BEE> no meego for u
Dec 11 22:27:01 <NooBmonk3y> :)
Dec 11 22:27:04 <NooBmonk3y> tough life
Dec 11 22:27:26 <Jay_BEE> reckon u could always boot via the flasher
Dec 11 22:28:08 <NooBmonk3y> meh Ir still only works from 3 foot away
Dec 11 22:29:17 <einsteinchen> safe... i just want to know wethere there are some issues with the power kernel or not
Dec 11 22:29:52 <NooBmonk3y> apart from as Jay mentioned, no uboot/meego, i've never experienced any personally
Dec 11 22:30:47 <einsteinchen> ok, thx, i think i'll try
Dec 11 22:31:21 <jacekowski> why there would be no uboot with power kernel?
Dec 11 22:31:44 <NooBmonk3y> i dunno
Dec 11 22:31:49 <NooBmonk3y> Jay_BEE, ?
Dec 11 22:32:00 <NooBmonk3y> maybe just no meego?
Dec 11 22:32:02 <NooBmonk3y> meh no idea
Dec 11 22:32:08 <jacekowski> you can build your own image with uboot
Dec 11 22:32:14 <Jay_BEE> uboot was removed from pk 46
Dec 11 22:32:15 <NooBmonk3y> ooo that sounds geeky
Dec 11 22:32:24 <jacekowski> it's all described on page with uboot for n900
Dec 11 22:32:40 * Jay_BEE nods at jacekowski
Dec 11 22:42:00 <CaCO3> Hi all
Dec 11 22:42:20 <CaCO3> I am building a new app in python with qwebview
Dec 11 22:42:36 <CaCO3> For some reason it does not show scrollbars in Maemo
Dec 11 22:42:43 <CaCO3> Does anybody know why?
Dec 11 22:43:16 <CaCO3> I tested other maemo apps with qwebvies, and they have all the same issue as well
Dec 11 22:44:24 <qknight> if anyone here likes evopedia, please give us the last vote to get from testing into extras: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/evopedia/0.4.2/ (so that everyone can benefit of evopedia)
Dec 11 22:47:04 <crashanddie> qknight: it's not about liking or disliking
Dec 11 22:47:15 <crashanddie> qknight: this isn't facebook where people tell you you're awesome
Dec 11 22:48:36 <crashanddie> lcuk: new liqbase binaries? Sweet.
Dec 11 22:49:42 <lcuk> just catching up with calendar and liqflow
Dec 11 22:50:25 <steinex> crashanddie, people with an attitude like yours are encouraging developing for maemo.
Dec 11 22:50:42 <Jay_BEE> well... qtirreco is controlling my directtv box
Dec 11 22:50:53 <Jay_BEE> not sure why it's no longer controlling my tv
Dec 11 22:51:58 <steinex> why are you screwing people away?
Dec 11 22:54:57 <Termana> steinex, you just told him people "with his attitude" are encouraging development for maemo and now you're saying he's "screwing people away"
Dec 11 22:55:01 <Termana> Make up your mind
Dec 11 22:55:30 <crashanddie> Termana: I guess keeping the open source media player running isn't to his liking
Dec 11 22:56:13 <crashanddie> or following the QA rules
Dec 11 22:56:16 <Termana> crashanddie, :p
Dec 11 22:56:20 <GAN900> crashanddie, already starting trouble. :P
Dec 11 22:56:41 <crashanddie> GAN900: heh, he's probably an undercover Nokia ninja
Dec 11 22:56:56 <crashanddie> "OH NOES, THEY BE STEALING OUR IP"
Dec 11 22:57:05 <Termana> lol
Dec 11 22:57:15 <GAN900> If he were, you'd already be dead.
Dec 11 22:57:39 <crashanddie> wait, what?
Dec 11 22:57:57 <crashanddie> Nokia getting an employee to do things switfly and promptly?
Dec 11 22:58:04 <Termana> GAN900, but he wouldn't know about it. Ninja's are just that awesome
Dec 11 22:58:28 <Termana> Ninjas*
Dec 11 22:58:30 <GAN900> crashanddie, this is the Nokia Special Operations division.
Dec 11 22:59:12 <crashanddie> "this"?
Dec 11 22:59:16 <crashanddie> You mean you're there?
Dec 11 23:00:56 <GAN900> crashanddie, no, as in "this is what we're talking about".
Dec 11 23:01:19 <ieatlint> i just assumed you were all nokia shills
Dec 11 23:02:23 <crashanddie> dude, have you ever bothered reading what happened in this channel?
Dec 11 23:02:34 <ieatlint> i try not to
Dec 11 23:12:15 <Termana> ieatlint, shit you blew my cover. Now I'll have to get a different nickname and start all over thanks very much
Dec 11 23:12:41 <NotTermana> Hi everyone I am a newb
Dec 11 23:12:49 <NotTermana> lollercoaster!!!111!!!!!
Dec 11 23:13:13 <NotTermana> How di I flush my N900?
Dec 11 23:13:34 <NotTermana> I hurd dere was some exta repos to install how do I do tat?
Dec 11 23:13:41 <NotTermana> No ones helping me
Dec 11 23:13:43 <NotTermana> Help me
Dec 11 23:13:45 <NotTermana> I am a loser
Dec 11 23:14:16 <lcuk> hey Termana
Dec 11 23:14:22 <lcuk> i think your brother was just in here
Dec 11 23:14:29 <Termana> :p
Dec 11 23:15:50 <Termana> lcuk, no unfortunately my brother knows perfectly well how to "flush" an n900
Dec 11 23:15:53 <Termana> :p
Dec 11 23:16:21 <lcuk> good for him
Dec 11 23:16:23 <lcuk> :P
Dec 11 23:26:35 <Jay_BEE> ok qtirreco is also working with the tv again :)
Dec 11 23:29:42 <Jay_BEE> http://www.flickr.com/photos/caniba/5252049419/in/set-72157625578056832/    <--- lol @ "is that a cardboard iPad?"
Dec 11 23:30:33 <GAN900> ieatlint, shills. Yes, that.
Dec 11 23:32:43 <NooBmonk3y> lol Jay_BEE  yes, yes it is ;)
Dec 11 23:32:54 <Jay_BEE> lol
Dec 12 00:25:24 <DocScrutinizer> Termana: flush N900? The newly developed Nokia send in for repair? Easy! Go bathroom, drop N900 in toilet, pull the handle. N900 will ship to Nokia repair at maximum possible speed
Dec 12 00:28:16 <MohammadAG> Uploading uboot for kernel-power v46, let's hope you learn a lesson folks, never let trolls get to you
Dec 12 00:28:28 <Jay_BEE> LOL
Dec 12 00:28:32 <Jay_BEE> awesome
Dec 12 00:28:47 <Termana> :p
Dec 12 00:29:03 <mikki-kun> MohammadAG: what is uboot?
Dec 12 00:29:09 <Jay_BEE> good stuff MohammadAG!
Dec 12 00:29:20 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, you forgot that he has to flush the battery separately :P
Dec 12 00:30:30 <DocScrutinizer> mikki-kun: a secret German weapon of WW-II
Dec 12 00:30:48 <MohammadAG> used by the americans
Dec 12 00:30:50 <mikki-kun> i meant uboot for nokia n900 =p
Dec 12 00:30:51 <Jay_BEE> now if someone could create teh uboot compatible nitdroid... but then not sure what I would be gaining with nitdroid
Dec 12 00:30:58 <mikki-kun> ich weiss wat nen verdammtes ubrot ist =p
Dec 12 00:31:09 <MohammadAG> Jay_BEE, umm, that's easy
Dec 12 00:31:23 <MohammadAG> Jay_BEE, pass me the zImage/vmlinuz image, I'll send you a uImage
Dec 12 00:31:38 <DocScrutinizer> ubrot, yummy :-P
Dec 12 00:32:06 * DocScrutinizer prepares a wurstbrot
Dec 12 00:33:13 * mikki-kun starts to manufacture käse/schinkenbrote for defense
Dec 12 00:33:24 <Jay_BEE> MohammadAG: curious, how would I be able to select said uImage with uboot?
Dec 12 00:33:35 <DocScrutinizer> ~uboot is an alternative bootloader, for diskless devices
Dec 12 00:33:36 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: okay
Dec 12 00:33:44 <MohammadAG> Jay_BEE, just put it on partition 3
Dec 12 00:33:47 <mikki-kun> so like multiboot?
Dec 12 00:34:16 <DocScrutinizer> multiboot is a dirty hack flashing a new kernel then rebooting
Dec 12 00:34:29 <Jay_BEE> hmm partition 3... let me look this up
Dec 12 00:34:31 <DocScrutinizer> but yeah, somewhat to the same purpose
Dec 12 00:35:00 <mikki-kun> ohhhh, ok
Dec 12 00:35:16 <mikki-kun> will i need it?
Dec 12 00:35:39 <DocScrutinizer> not if you don't need a multiboot system
Dec 12 00:35:47 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, doesn't flashing it multitple times eventually ruin the flash?
Dec 12 00:35:50 <MohammadAG> multiple even
Dec 12 00:35:56 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: sure
Dec 12 00:36:10 <MohammadAG> mikki-kun, so yes, you will need it ^
Dec 12 00:36:55 <MohammadAG> there's uboot-pr13 by Stskeeps (which the source of contains binaries, of all people to upload a SOURCE with BINARIES...), and there's uboot-power that I just uploaded, which contains proper sources
Dec 12 00:37:24 <mikki-kun> so MohammadAG >> Stskeeps ???
Dec 12 00:37:26 <mikki-kun> x)
Dec 12 00:37:36 <mikki-kun> that's a pretty bold statement i guess ^^
Dec 12 00:37:53 <MohammadAG> pfft, he's not here anymore
Dec 12 00:38:31 <mikki-kun> how come?
Dec 12 00:39:27 <MohammadAG> apparently, #maemo is retarded
Dec 12 00:40:01 <MohammadAG> oh crap
Dec 12 00:40:04 <MohammadAG> crap crap crap
Dec 12 00:40:26 <psycho_oreos> bomberman just blew himself up? ;)
Dec 12 00:40:30 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: btw, v46 pk with uboot? fine. I heard there's that new thing called h-e-n, needs pk. Now - with uboot - I might give this a try finally :-D
Dec 12 00:41:19 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, don't install it!
Dec 12 00:41:20 <mikki-kun> pk?
Dec 12 00:41:29 <DocScrutinizer> not??
Dec 12 00:41:34 <Jay_BEE> pk = kernel power
Dec 12 00:41:45 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer: i guess he forgot the "remote control mode" ;)
Dec 12 00:42:23 <MohammadAG> here's my changelog entry   * Crap, wrong EXTRAVERSION = bootloops (!!!)
Dec 12 00:42:35 <DangerMaus> haha
Dec 12 00:42:35 <mikki-kun> x) cool
Dec 12 00:42:45 <mikki-kun> that's an awesome extra :D
Dec 12 00:42:47 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Dec 12 00:42:55 <mikki-kun> we need that for ipods!
Dec 12 00:42:55 <MohammadAG> Apparently, makefiles don't follow the same syntax as shell files, so 46 was actually substituted as KP_VERSION
Dec 12 00:43:29 <MohammadAG> sometimes, having extras import every 30 minutes is useful
Dec 12 00:43:36 <MohammadAG> I can erase my mistakes, I think :P
Dec 12 00:43:50 <lcuk> sometimes testing is required before :P
Dec 12 00:44:06 <MohammadAG> lcuk, at least meego works :3
Dec 12 00:44:08 <comawhite> anyone know a place where I can get the N900 really cheap?
Dec 12 00:44:10 <lcuk> especially for booty things
Dec 12 00:44:11 <lcuk> yeah
Dec 12 00:44:14 <MohammadAG> I didn't test maemo before uploading it
Dec 12 00:44:31 <MohammadAG> isn't it already cheap?
Dec 12 00:44:51 <MohammadAG> it's like 350 bucks in jordan, should be cheaper in the US/EU I suppose
Dec 12 00:45:17 <DocScrutinizer> comawhite: locateIP some overclocker, and wait at his door a few weeks
Dec 12 00:45:28 <MohammadAG> meh, fail /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: mkimage: command not found
Dec 12 00:45:29 <lcuk> pizzahut pizza tastes really really good.
Dec 12 00:46:19 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: watching demolition man?
Dec 12 00:46:25 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, nope
Dec 12 00:46:49 <DangerMaus> like $350 on amazon
Dec 12 00:46:56 <MohammadAG> the inner me is awesome
Dec 12 00:47:04 <lcuk> eating pizza, drinking guinness and trying to find a way to write qt class tree without needing to write out both header/code individually
Dec 12 00:47:12 <MohammadAG> it forgot uboot-mkimage as a build dependency, it knows I was going to brick devices
Dec 12 00:47:24 <lcuk> looking for a way to take c++ header file and generate skeleton actual code implementation to fill up later
Dec 12 00:47:42 <mikki-kun> DangerMaus: amazon is dumb
Dec 12 00:47:43 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: there's macrogenerators for that, no?
Dec 12 00:47:49 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, where?
Dec 12 00:47:53 <MohammadAG> mikki-kun, I got mine from amazon
Dec 12 00:48:09 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: errr, cpp is one of them
Dec 12 00:48:20 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, I want to write general class tree
Dec 12 00:48:25 <lcuk> about 15 classes
Dec 12 00:48:37 * Arkenoi doubts overclocking is that bad, it is available for year or so and no faulty devices yet
Dec 12 00:48:43 <mikki-kun> they removed stuff from wikileaks which the us-governement labeled as terrorists (which i can't really follow)
Dec 12 00:48:55 <lcuk> and then press a button and have it make the actual basic implementation for them but I cant find a way
Dec 12 00:49:13 * lcuk still used to vb.net for oop :O
Dec 12 00:49:20 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: see my random babble about COBOL this morning. I had my own tool for that
Dec 12 00:49:31 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, I had mine too
Dec 12 00:49:35 <lcuk> it was called visual basic
Dec 12 00:49:36 <MohammadAG> now that the fix is uploaded, let's actually test t
Dec 12 00:49:38 <MohammadAG> it*
Dec 12 00:49:39 <lcuk> i have generators that can make it
Dec 12 00:49:47 <lcuk> but I am trying to wein myself off them
Dec 12 00:50:00 <DangerMaus> mikki-kun, heh they labled a few teens here that toiletpapered trees last halloween as terrorists
Dec 12 00:50:07 <lcuk> headerless object definitions
Dec 12 00:50:12 <DangerMaus> go figure
Dec 12 00:50:12 <lcuk> improve quality of life
Dec 12 00:50:33 <lcuk> i might use python actually
Dec 12 00:50:41 <lcuk> i saw a py to c++ thingy somewhere
Dec 12 00:51:03 <MohammadAG> skinhead or something
Dec 12 00:51:10 <lcuk> but its not qt based so wouldnt add the introspection stuff
Dec 12 00:51:15 <lcuk> shedskin :P
Dec 12 00:51:26 <mikki-kun> DangerMaus: lol?!
Dec 12 00:51:34 <MohammadAG> skin's in both, does it matter?
Dec 12 00:51:44 <lcuk> YES
Dec 12 00:51:57 <DocScrutinizer> headskin, skinhead, who cares?
Dec 12 00:51:58 <MohammadAG> who wants hardpore corn?
Dec 12 00:52:18 <lcuk> no go fix your bootlooper
Dec 12 00:52:51 <MohammadAG> I did, you know why?
Dec 12 00:53:00 <MohammadAG> cause the bugtracker's my effing email address :P
Dec 12 00:54:21 <DocScrutinizer> so GIVE ME THIS HEN NOW!! you no help at all!!1!!
Dec 12 00:54:22 <lcuk> :P
Dec 12 00:54:41 <DangerMaus> bootloops/fruitloops
Dec 12 00:55:03 <MohammadAG> hmm
Dec 12 00:55:34 <DocScrutinizer> I NEED test my mugwarmer, and I NEEED HEN and OVERDRIVE to 1g
Dec 12 00:56:08 <Jay_BEE> i hate not having linux.
Dec 12 00:56:12 <DocScrutinizer> PLZ ANYBODY HLP PLZ!!
Dec 12 00:57:01 <DocScrutinizer> damn I need to practice more to get this leetspeak
Dec 12 00:57:21 <MohammadAG> oh
Dec 12 00:57:26 <MohammadAG> local version boot looops
Dec 12 00:57:35 <MohammadAG> repo one shouldn't
Dec 12 00:57:48 * MohammadAG waits it out, looking at the Nokia logo reappearing
Dec 12 00:58:16 <DocScrutinizer> FLUSH IT BRO FLUSH!
Dec 12 00:58:16 <MohammadAG> I can't make it suffer like this! *cries* *compiles*
Dec 12 00:58:23 <MohammadAG> oh, good idea
Dec 12 00:58:29 * MohammadAG takes out battery, flushes device
Dec 12 00:58:31 <Jay_BEE> hi MohammadAG, so my thinking is that I want 2 partitions on my sd card, one with meego, the other (partition3?) with nitroid and uboot will be able to boot either?
Dec 12 00:59:35 <MohammadAG> not sure about that, as of now, I've only seen it booting one OS at a time
Dec 12 00:59:40 <MohammadAG> you need two cards for that
Dec 12 00:59:50 <MohammadAG> three partitions on each
Dec 12 00:59:50 <Jay_BEE> ah
Dec 12 01:00:26 <DocScrutinizer> Jay_BEE: that's the idea of uboot. You need to edit the bootmenu
Dec 12 01:00:46 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, should know more
Dec 12 01:00:53 * MohammadAG curses builder
Dec 12 01:01:49 <Jay_BEE> bootmenu? i'm trying to steer clear of that. my desire is to use uboot to boot between maemo, meego and nitdroid
Dec 12 01:02:16 <DocScrutinizer> Jay_BEE: don't ask me how to edit N900 flavour uboot bootmenu. I know how that works on Openmoko Freerunner uBoot
Dec 12 01:02:41 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, it's pretty stock-ish to me
Dec 12 01:02:47 <MohammadAG> except for the noloboot line to override uboot
Dec 12 01:02:49 <DocScrutinizer> "Nokia" uBoot is somewhat... err... a subset of the full uBoot
Dec 12 01:03:05 <MohammadAG> actually, I just pulled it from the git page of uBoot :P
Dec 12 01:03:06 <Jay_BEE> uboot bootmenu.... never heard of it.
Dec 12 01:03:41 <Jay_BEE> the mud thickens.
Dec 12 01:03:44 * MohammadAG shrugs
Dec 12 01:03:45 <MohammadAG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_U-Boot
Dec 12 01:03:56 <Jay_BEE> yeah
Dec 12 01:04:21 <DocScrutinizer> on a 'usual' uboot you'd enter to uboot cmdline console, via USB ttyACM, and then edit some env vars and save them
Dec 12 01:04:41 <MohammadAG> unterseeboot = undersea boat = submarine? I like german now lol
Dec 12 01:04:51 <Jay_BEE> lol
Dec 12 01:05:24 <e-yes> das ist fantastisch
Dec 12 01:05:40 <DocScrutinizer> on N900, thanks to somebody getting lazy, you can't do that, as the N900 uboot doesn't know (yet) how to deal with watchdogs
Dec 12 01:06:10 <e-yes> hi all
Dec 12 01:06:30 <MohammadAG> privet e-yes :)
Dec 12 01:06:54 <e-yes> preved medved=)
Dec 12 01:07:22 <Jay_BEE> all of this for nitdroid... bah... hopefully nokia will get it right with Qt and allow us to truly write once and build to other platforms, including android and iOs, and they can go away
Dec 12 01:07:28 <DocScrutinizer> ...and also N900 uboot hasn't even learned how to save anything, as there's no env partition on N900 NAND, and uboot doesn't know how to play nice with CAL partition
Dec 12 01:08:20 <DocScrutinizer> ..so my take on this is: you need to edit uboot sourcecode to tweak the menu
Dec 12 01:09:03 <DangerMaus> \
Dec 12 01:09:09 <DangerMaus> \errr
Dec 12 01:09:13 <DangerMaus> dangit
Dec 12 01:09:16 <e-yes> but does any one know about cal? (except for nokia devs)
Dec 12 01:09:31 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, somewhat
Dec 12 01:09:38 <DangerMaus> nouse not playingfair
Dec 12 01:09:59 <DangerMaus> sorry mousr and window fosus not playing fair
Dec 12 01:10:00 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, it reads some boot.scr file from the mmc
Dec 12 01:10:03 <e-yes> better way: use second stage menu and write boot.scr for u-boot
Dec 12 01:10:39 <DocScrutinizer> e-yes: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20465
Dec 12 01:11:01 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: \o/
Dec 12 01:11:21 <MohammadAG> ali1234 isn't here, but he's on #meego
Dec 12 01:12:34 * Jay_BEE moves on
Dec 12 01:13:04 <MohammadAG> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/u-boot/20100919_001.jpg oh nice
Dec 12 01:13:54 <Jay_BEE> hmm
Dec 12 01:14:21 <MohammadAG> [2010-12-12 03:12:25] uboot-power 0.2-1 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository
Dec 12 01:16:13 <Jay_BEE> cool
Dec 12 01:17:22 <e-yes> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4874
Dec 12 01:17:24 <povbot> Bug 4874: Publically document CAL config entries in /dev/mtd1 config area
Dec 12 01:18:02 <DocScrutinizer> ""some config settings (at least internal flash partition layout = where kernel, initfs, rootfs begins) are parsed also by NOLO loader""!!! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=186158#post186158
Dec 12 01:19:05 <DocScrutinizer> ""...so in theory corrupting it [CAL] can make NOLO crash or hang => cold flashing needed""
Dec 12 01:20:18 <DocScrutinizer> on N900 - thanks to jacekowski master of the RE hacking - we know we can coldflash any time. So I strongly suggest to investigate that path again
Dec 12 01:21:02 <e-yes> could any one check is it (libcal) opened now? (my sdk is far away from me)
Dec 12 01:21:32 <MohammadAG> it won't be open on the maemo repos
Dec 12 01:21:34 <MohammadAG> I assure you
Dec 12 01:21:37 <DocScrutinizer> afaik it's not. But that's just an unqualified notion
Dec 12 01:21:53 <MohammadAG> E: Unable to find a source package for libcal
Dec 12 01:22:06 <DocScrutinizer> surprise surprise
Dec 12 01:23:44 <DocScrutinizer> anyway the description of CAL raw content by fanoush quite recalls me about uBoot env that seems to work absolutely identical
Dec 12 01:24:33 <DocScrutinizer> at leat for all I can recall off top of my head, after 3 years from hearing about it last time
Dec 12 01:24:35 <Termana> "guys, ive just found out that the 127.0.0.1 proxy server is somewhat "down" at the moment, that explains why it didnt work for you"
Dec 12 01:24:36 <Termana> LOL
Dec 12 01:25:06 <DocScrutinizer> ~stab Termana
Dec 12 01:25:07 * infobot runs at Termana with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut.
Dec 12 01:25:45 <Termana> Stab me? for what? Trying to stop the depressing discussion of closed bits on the N900? :p
Dec 12 01:25:48 <DocScrutinizer> at least*
Dec 12 01:26:25 <DocScrutinizer> Termana: yes, exactly therefor
Dec 12 01:26:48 <DocScrutinizer> if this discussion is depressing to you, I suggest you /leave
Dec 12 01:26:59 <DocScrutinizer> or put on your sunglasses
Dec 12 01:27:07 * Termana puts on his sunglasses
Dec 12 01:27:12 <Termana> YEEEAAAHHHHHH
Dec 12 01:27:33 <DocScrutinizer> B E T T E R?
Dec 12 01:27:45 <MohammadAG> LOL Termana
Dec 12 01:28:16 <MohammadAG> Termana, http://www.yeahbutton.com/
Dec 12 01:28:51 <Termana> MohammadAG, :P
Dec 12 01:36:24 <DocScrutinizer> ~lart-tmo-lemming is http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting
Dec 12 01:36:24 <infobot> okay, DocScrutinizer
Dec 12 01:36:54 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: ^^^ you'll love that :-D
Dec 12 01:38:05 <comawhite> oo found another n900 for $250
Dec 12 01:39:19 <DocScrutinizer> thanks to OC idiots extraordinaires I'll never buy a used N900
Dec 12 01:39:30 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: lol @ video
Dec 12 01:39:33 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, lol that's sorta random... and weird
Dec 12 01:40:16 <DocScrutinizer> courtesy fanoush
Dec 12 01:42:05 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, The following NEW packages will be installed:
Dec 12 01:42:05 <MohammadAG>   kernel-power-modules uboot-power
Dec 12 01:42:07 <MohammadAG> it's in devel
Dec 12 01:42:08 * MohammadAG tests
Dec 12 01:44:56 <MohammadAG> device boots up, and for the first time in 5 months, I got ACT_DEAD back :D
Dec 12 01:45:31 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: I warn you ;-D I got a weird system here, neither 1.2 nor 1.3, and the silos are in standby...
Dec 12 01:46:17 <mikki-kun> ACT_DEAD?
Dec 12 01:46:29 <MohammadAG> charging while off
Dec 12 01:46:32 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: so do you *really* want me to test it?
Dec 12 01:46:36 <MohammadAG> I always have to keep it on to charge
Dec 12 01:46:42 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, device booted up fine
Dec 12 01:46:48 <mikki-kun> lol :D
Dec 12 01:46:52 * MohammadAG sighs at lost time and date
Dec 12 01:46:58 <MohammadAG> fucking battery
Dec 12 01:47:42 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, yesterday on my NEW device a mere 15s were enough to pop up the requester, though all was still correctly set
Dec 12 01:48:39 <MohammadAG> that's a SIM getting moved issue
Dec 12 01:48:50 <MohammadAG> like the contacts separated or something
Dec 12 01:48:59 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: so how am I going to do this magic flashing voodoo?
Dec 12 01:49:38 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, to avoid confusion, install kernel-power normally (apt-get install kernel-power-flasher), then install uboot-power
Dec 12 01:49:42 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: (SIM) hardly, as the SIM been ok prior to and after battery removal
Dec 12 01:49:44 <MohammadAG> that should work 100%
Dec 12 01:50:10 <DocScrutinizer> what's about rootfs?
Dec 12 01:50:18 <MohammadAG> ?
Dec 12 01:50:25 <DocScrutinizer> would you recommend I should update that 1.1.1 / ?
Dec 12 01:50:26 <MohammadAG> of meego?
Dec 12 01:50:40 <MohammadAG> you don't have to I suppose
Dec 12 01:50:54 <DocScrutinizer> maybe I'd like to
Dec 12 01:50:55 <MohammadAG> (and wtf??? 1.1.1???)
Dec 12 01:51:29 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, my devel device has 1.1.1 rootfs plus 1.2.72 hostmode-moh-special kernel
Dec 12 01:52:11 <DocScrutinizer> I feel like nuking it
Dec 12 01:52:31 <MohammadAG> I thought that used the "old" API
Dec 12 01:52:39 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Dec 12 01:52:52 <DocScrutinizer> it's really old
Dec 12 01:52:53 <MohammadAG> and please, acll it moh-en
Dec 12 01:53:03 <MohammadAG> call*
Dec 12 01:53:44 <DocScrutinizer> I will see if I can brick it by simply doing a apt-get... :-P
Dec 12 01:54:00 <MohammadAG> wtf
Dec 12 01:54:09 <MohammadAG> my microSD can't be detected anymore :S
Dec 12 01:54:16 <DocScrutinizer> even more fun to do a fullflash if I don't *have to* but just _want_ to
Dec 12 01:54:33 <DocScrutinizer> err, maybe not yet
Dec 12 01:54:36 <MohammadAG> driver's fine
Dec 12 01:55:07 <MohammadAG> weird
Dec 12 01:55:12 <MohammadAG> cleaned the contacts and it works now
Dec 12 01:55:26 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: you found an exploit for that "eating sandisk-uSDs" bug?
Dec 12 01:55:31 <npm> MohammadAG: can i ask a meego devel question (related to missing maemo mad-developer)
Dec 12 01:55:52 <npm> a new qt creator updated yesterday
Dec 12 01:56:16 <MohammadAG> npm, I don't have a proper meego SDK, and I'm not installing a full OBS for it
Dec 12 01:56:27 <MohammadAG> so I have no idea about SDK issues
Dec 12 01:56:30 <npm> and now when i try to deploy to n900/meego it says "remote process failed" and something about missign install of mad-developer
Dec 12 01:56:33 <MohammadAG> #meego isn't of much help either
Dec 12 01:56:42 <MohammadAG> apt-get install madde
Dec 12 01:57:16 * DocScrutinizer frowns
Dec 12 01:58:41 <DocScrutinizer> \o/ powerbutton worked in first try
Dec 12 01:59:05 <MohammadAG> with uboot?
Dec 12 01:59:33 <DocScrutinizer> with 1.2.73 moh-en and 1.1.1 rootfs
Dec 12 01:59:44 <BCMM> has anyone packaged a kernel that supports both hostmode and fcam, or do i need to compile it myself?
Dec 12 02:00:28 <DocScrutinizer> what's the name of that friggin initial-locale&date&time-settings program? Is it FOSS?
Dec 12 02:00:43 <MohammadAG> of course it's FOSS - NOT
Dec 12 02:00:48 <DocScrutinizer> the time setting widget is AWESOME
Dec 12 02:00:55 <MohammadAG> it's a custom widget
Dec 12 02:01:03 <MohammadAG> doesn't even use hildon's libs I think
Dec 12 02:01:09 <MohammadAG> scrolling looks much better in it
Dec 12 02:01:14 <DocScrutinizer> you bet it doesn't
Dec 12 02:01:49 <DocScrutinizer> time is awesome, date is even worse than hildon
Dec 12 02:02:20 <DocScrutinizer> look and feel like tose ancient slotmachines
Dec 12 02:03:56 <MohammadAG> the way the dialogs open is just wonderful
Dec 12 02:04:39 <DocScrutinizer> I *want* to run that lil fancy at arbitrary times! maybe even rip out the time setting widget
Dec 12 02:05:21 <DocScrutinizer> so what's the binary's name?
Dec 12 02:06:07 <lcuk> MohammadAG, ocs
Dec 12 02:06:11 <lcuk> the localised version
Dec 12 02:06:19 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, no idea
Dec 12 02:06:20 <lcuk> downloads components as required for what you asked it to do
Dec 12 02:06:49 <lcuk> so if you ask it to build qt for arm and x86 it will do exactly that by getting everything required.
Dec 12 02:07:09 <lcuk> and yes that may be a large thing, obviously it has access to binary dependencies also
Dec 12 02:07:23 <lcuk> it takes reading up about
Dec 12 02:07:46 <lcuk> but it is what you need to handle it realistically for full cross platform meego work.
Dec 12 02:10:13 <DocScrutinizer> repository.tajuma.com ?? o.O
Dec 12 02:11:12 <DocScrutinizer> wtf catalogs I got on my devel dev?
Dec 12 02:12:27 <DocScrutinizer> HP calculator for Nokia Internet Tablets  -- :-D
Dec 12 02:14:51 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: it's same as in iphone iirc
Dec 12 02:15:00 <jacekowski> that slot machine style widget
Dec 12 02:15:18 <DocScrutinizer> unbearable
Dec 12 02:15:31 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, it's better on the iPhone
Dec 12 02:16:30 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, t-tan's from Germany
Dec 12 02:17:42 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: "u-boot for kernel power v46" says it comes with kernel-pwer46. So you think I first need to install kernel power, then again with uboot?
Dec 12 02:18:32 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, you only need kernel-power-modules which should be pulled in before installation
Dec 12 02:19:05 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, so all that should happen on installing uboot-v46, no?
Dec 12 02:19:13 <MohammadAG> yes, _should_
Dec 12 02:19:46 <DocScrutinizer> hahaha, free storage insufficient :-P
Dec 12 02:20:08 <MohammadAG> LOL
Dec 12 02:20:24 * MohammadAG moved his /var/lib/dpkg to /opt
Dec 12 02:21:02 <DocScrutinizer> rootfs                  227.9M    224.0M         0 100% /
Dec 12 02:21:10 <DocScrutinizer> pfft
Dec 12 02:21:27 <MohammadAG> apt-get clean?
Dec 12 02:28:48 <DocScrutinizer> first a "backup" (cp /<randomstuff> sftp:mylaptop/D/t900-rootfs-backup)
Dec 12 02:29:46 <DocScrutinizer> hell, 21k files
Dec 12 02:30:01 <comawhite> how much does it cost to use the gps on the n900
Dec 12 02:30:19 <mikki-kun> should be free
Dec 12 02:30:28 <MohammadAG> heh, first problems with DSP because of overclocking http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66336
Dec 12 02:30:31 <mikki-kun> as long as you don't download map-material via 3g
Dec 12 02:30:32 <comawhite> can i use the gps without service provider?
Dec 12 02:30:42 <mikki-kun> you should be able to
Dec 12 02:30:53 <DocScrutinizer> FSCK!
Dec 12 02:30:56 <mikki-kun> anybody seeing i am telling BS, correct me
Dec 12 02:31:19 <DocScrutinizer> /bin/dd: error: can't read file
Dec 12 02:31:21 <MohammadAG> mikki-kun, you're forgetting fullstops at the end of each sentence you say.
Dec 12 02:31:37 <comawhite> MikaT, thank you
Dec 12 02:31:46 <comawhite> oops i meant mikki-kun
Dec 12 02:31:54 <mikki-kun> i was talking about BS not correct punctuation =p
Dec 12 02:32:02 <mikki-kun> ^^ tabbing is evil x)
Dec 12 02:32:04 <MohammadAG> see? you did it again
Dec 12 02:32:15 <mikki-kun> i ended it with a smily ;)
Dec 12 02:33:09 <DocScrutinizer> oh =p is a smiley?
Dec 12 02:34:03 * DocScrutinizer glares at N900
Dec 12 02:34:05 <MohammadAG> yeah, like =)
Dec 12 02:34:06 <mikki-kun> yeah the :p
Dec 12 02:34:28 <mikki-kun> i jst don't like the :p one, so i make the =p one :)
Dec 12 02:34:42 <DocScrutinizer> "holding a chopstick between upper lip and nose"?
Dec 12 02:34:55 <mikki-kun> MohammadAG: how can you tell that is an issue of overclocking?
Dec 12 02:36:16 <MohammadAG> mikki-kun, you'll see
Dec 12 02:36:32 <MohammadAG> so cold and windy :/
Dec 12 02:36:50 <MohammadAG> crap
Dec 12 02:37:02 <MohammadAG> door closed on its own, and i forgot to fix it
Dec 12 02:39:58 * DocScrutinizer curses the ignorance of Nokia, to miss adding a *decent* *full* disk-imaging tool
Dec 12 02:40:09 * DocScrutinizer installs backup-menu
Dec 12 02:41:32 <comawhite> okay i just bought my n900 for $250
Dec 12 02:41:34 <comawhite> :D
Dec 12 02:42:47 <SpeedEvil> :)
Dec 12 02:43:34 <mikki-kun> congrats :)
Dec 12 02:44:02 <Termana> Welcome to the dark side. We have cookies
Dec 12 02:44:23 <comawhite> :D
Dec 12 02:44:40 <comawhite> i got 2 free extra batteries with the phone also
Dec 12 02:44:51 <comawhite> and a case xD
Dec 12 02:50:24 <MohammadAG> anyone tried sleeping with in ear headphones on?
Dec 12 02:50:42 <MohammadAG> too windy = too noisy outside
Dec 12 02:53:11 <comawhite> i was looking at the phone features, i don't see ogg on it
Dec 12 02:54:07 <MohammadAG> codec can be installed
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 12 02:59:58 2010