**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 17 02:59:59 2010
Dec 17 03:00:02 <lolcat> I gave my wall charger to my girlfriend
Dec 17 03:01:08 <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I'm asleep at the moment and have no constructive suggestions.
Dec 17 03:01:10 <SpeedEvil> Night all.
Dec 17 03:42:56 <Jay_BEE> hola
Dec 17 05:34:13 <iluminator101> I am looking for a simple timer for n900?
Dec 17 05:34:38 <johnx> iluminator101, like a stop watch?
Dec 17 05:34:43 <iluminator101> yea
Dec 17 05:34:49 <johnx> search for stop watch
Dec 17 05:34:51 <johnx> works great
Dec 17 05:36:46 <iluminator101> thanks Johnx
Dec 17 05:37:09 <iluminator101> i am looking for digital compass on n900 if there is such an app simple compass
Dec 17 05:37:31 <SpeedEvil> There is no hardware
Dec 17 05:37:46 <iluminator101> bumper what hardware are we talking about?
Dec 17 05:37:49 <SpeedEvil> Well - at least stock - I plan to add one - but...
Dec 17 05:37:54 <ds3> did the people who were thinking of doing one with the microSD give up?
Dec 17 05:37:54 <SpeedEvil> Tehre is no digital compass.
Dec 17 05:38:42 <SpeedEvil> ds3: I was idly wondering about that - the problem is that the microSD is ~1mm thick. Digital compass chips are - though they are about the right size - 1.5mm thick. This leads to a packaging problem.
Dec 17 05:39:08 <ds3> SpeedEvil: *nod* I think the idea of a thick spot sticking out was also rejected
Dec 17 05:39:11 <SpeedEvil> ds3: So I'm just planning on soldering one on to a convenient I2C bus
Dec 17 05:39:20 <SpeedEvil> ds3: yeah - it doesn't work well. :/
Dec 17 05:39:51 <ds3> SpeedEvil: is there a convienient I2C bus exposed?
Dec 17 05:40:08 <SpeedEvil> ds3: If you sank ~50K into it to get bare dies and the moulding, then it'd be easy.
Dec 17 05:40:19 <SpeedEvil> ds3: Yes - several internally
Dec 17 05:40:25 <SpeedEvil> But it's a dissasembly job
Dec 17 05:40:34 <ds3> hence the 'exposed' qualification
Dec 17 05:41:11 <ds3> what's a reasonable price single chip compass that will run at 1.8V?
Dec 17 05:41:22 <ds3> or does such a beast not exists :)
Dec 17 05:42:43 <SpeedEvil> http://www.st.com/internet/analog/product/250145.jsp
Dec 17 05:45:52 <ds3> $15 each and no one has stock :(
Dec 17 05:48:41 <iluminator101> is there like restaurant finder app for n900?
Dec 17 05:54:59 <luke-jr> iluminator101: what I do is open AGPS, copy coordinates to Google Maps, then search nearby for stuff
Dec 17 05:57:24 <chx> iluminator101: Maemo-Geolocation ?
Dec 17 06:00:24 <johnx> luke-jr, you don't just let microb use your gps chip?
Dec 17 06:00:44 <luke-jr> johnx: shrug. let it or not, it doesn't use it :P
Dec 17 06:00:55 <johnx> luke-jr, you're doing it wrong :)
Dec 17 06:01:16 <johnx> also, the android/iphone version of the google maps web page works great in microb
Dec 17 06:01:29 <johnx> (except no real way to zoom out ... )
Dec 17 06:01:32 <luke-jr> what exactly am I doing wrong?
Dec 17 06:01:50 <johnx> not installing the plugin for microb that lets it access the GPS
Dec 17 06:02:05 <johnx> then not using the iphone version of google maps website
Dec 17 06:02:15 <iluminator101> what about a next flight app?
Dec 17 06:09:21 <Corsac> woouh, an angry bird update
Dec 17 06:53:06 <Termana> Is it just me or is it when you're asked to write something about global warming and provide an argument about it, the questions will always have bias to an argument of global warming actually being a problem? :p
Dec 17 07:01:53 <DocScrutinizer> Termana: it's absolutely irrelevant if there's really man made global warming. Almost as irrelevant as the question how many cases of cancer casualties a high air fission bomb test will cause. We simply should stay away from the actual test and try to stay on safe side of fence
Dec 17 07:31:51 <Dan101> hello
Dec 17 07:32:08 <pronto> jell-o?
Dec 17 07:32:39 <Dan101> :)
Dec 17 07:41:54 <rute> i've been looking at several 'top 10 must have apps for the nokia n900' and i keep seeing a game called 'bounce evolution' but i don't see it in the downloads. how do i get it?
Dec 17 07:48:54 <Termana> rute, it's free in the Ovi Store
Dec 17 07:49:41 <rute> ty
Dec 17 07:50:56 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: <SpeedEvil>Nokia-N900-02-8:/usr/lib# ls -l *FLAC*
Dec 17 07:51:54 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you know this doesn't really mean much, as you *could* have a non-maemo-mohammadesque system where /usr is actually a mounted volume? :-D
Dec 17 07:53:01 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: though I agree the error pattern descriped involved a symlink to /opt afaik
Dec 17 07:53:11 <DocScrutinizer> discribed*
Dec 17 07:55:13 <DocScrutinizer> however such a symlink is semi-sane as per FHS /usr is *supposed* to be a separate volume mounted late in bootup by itself, so if it actually isn't then there's nothing wrong with symlinking particular files in it to such a separately mounted volume. Apparently some dudes here refuse to get the catch of that
Dec 17 07:58:48 <DocScrutinizer> again, read
Dec 17 07:58:53 <DocScrutinizer> ~optification
Dec 17 07:58:53 <infobot> methinks optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3
Dec 17 07:59:12 <DocScrutinizer> all the references therein, if you're one of that dudes
Dec 17 07:59:43 <DocScrutinizer> ESPECIALLY the refs to http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html
Dec 17 08:00:33 <DocScrutinizer> don't start discussions about system configuration if you never heard or refused to learn about FHS
Dec 17 08:07:49 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: there's clearly a right way to deal with system configuration and a wrong way. The right way is to follow FHS, the wrong way is to look at your actual system and take assumptions. E.G. lcuk when developting parts of optifcation followed the FHS paradigms as much as he was possible to do. Some dudes at Nokia, and also the criminal individual placing libFLAC into /usr/lib while this lib is needed early in boot did NOT follow the
Dec 17 08:07:51 <DocScrutinizer> sane path. This will lead to effects that made you look like your avatar :-D
Dec 17 08:08:01 <DocScrutinizer> ~mohammadag
Dec 17 08:08:02 <infobot> rumour has it, mohammadag is your father
Dec 17 08:10:09 <DocScrutinizer> s/possible/allowed
Dec 17 08:31:16 <DocScrutinizer> WTF?
Dec 17 08:31:21 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# ls -l ~root/
Dec 17 08:31:22 <DocScrutinizer> insgesamt 268
Dec 17 08:31:24 <DocScrutinizer> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root      0 2010-12-04 02:49 +@
Dec 17 08:31:25 <DocScrutinizer> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root      0 2010-12-04 02:49 +@=+@=+@=+@
Dec 17 08:35:19 <RST38h> Well. Morning.
Dec 17 08:36:46 <DocScrutinizer> moo RST38h
Dec 17 08:37:17 <RST38h> 9 days uptime. Rebooooooot.
Dec 17 08:37:31 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: any idea what went wrong there:  -rw-r--r-- 1 root root      0 2010-12-04 02:49 +@=+@=+@=+@
Dec 17 08:37:40 <RST38h> It does appear to help to keep commonly used apps open and running though.
Dec 17 08:38:11 <RST38h> Doc: Looks like somebody did "touch <weird utf8 name>"
Dec 17 08:38:24 <DocScrutinizer> aaah UTF8, thanks
Dec 17 08:38:31 <RST38h> I may be wrong though
Dec 17 08:38:59 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, quite possible
Dec 17 08:40:00 <DocScrutinizer> one of my beloved `cat|netcat paste.dyndns.org 1234` might have contained crap plus a ^D
Dec 17 08:40:27 <DocScrutinizer> :-S
Dec 17 08:41:47 <DocScrutinizer> should change my habits to `netcat paste.dyndns.org 1234 <<"this-is-never-happening-is-it?"
Dec 17 09:21:40 <RobbieThe1st> Hm... can anyone tell me what's wrong with this?:  "class Window: public QObject, public KDecorationBridgeUnstable {" error: expected class-name before ‘{’ token
Dec 17 09:23:13 <DocScrutinizer-8> muhaha pissly errr pizzly bear
Dec 17 09:24:11 <RST38h> Robbie: there is some shit in that line
Dec 17 09:24:28 <RST38h> "Window" is probably taken
Dec 17 09:25:36 <DocScrutinizer-8> yeah, reserved word or already used
Dec 17 09:30:28 <RobbieThe1st> huh
Dec 17 09:36:16 <RST38h> Robbie: X11 uses "Window" for window handles.
Dec 17 09:39:08 <RobbieThe1st> I'm trying to compile Compiz herre
Dec 17 09:40:01 <RobbieThe1st> And I'm guessing someone made a mistake in the 0.9.2 version - kde_window_decorator ends up throwing that error
Dec 17 09:40:10 <RobbieThe1st> And I don't think I know enough CPP to fix it
Dec 17 09:41:14 <chx> you want to run compiz on the n900?
Dec 17 09:41:28 <chx> i want to see that
Dec 17 09:41:37 <RobbieThe1st> Nah; on my Debian desktop
Dec 17 09:42:08 <RobbieThe1st> I was -hoping- to get the 0.9 version running, but...
Dec 17 09:42:56 <chx> you got my hopes up for a second :)
Dec 17 09:44:16 <RobbieThe1st> That -would- be cool, wouldn't it...
Dec 17 09:44:51 <RobbieThe1st> Heck, it might be possible later on; Wasn't one of the goals of the Compiz re-write to use OpenGL-ES functions only?
Dec 17 10:23:57 <lardman> morning
Dec 17 10:29:46 <derf> lardman: Moo.
Dec 17 10:29:57 <lardman> hi derf
Dec 17 10:30:26 <lardman> well I eventually got annoyed with QLists and added my params to the objects themselves
Dec 17 10:30:39 <derf> :)
Dec 17 10:30:56 <lardman> and the code is much simpler tbh, but I'm trying to track down a segfault :(
Dec 17 10:31:17 <lardman> though that's better than the random QList changes values of ints problem I was having befoerhand
Dec 17 10:31:24 <derf> valgrind is your friend.
Dec 17 10:32:20 <lardman> gdb wasn't working very well
Dec 17 10:32:25 <lardman> I'll give valgrind a go
Dec 17 10:33:53 <ieatlint> valgrind is by far the best tool for segfaults... tells you exactly where it occurred and why
Dec 17 10:34:08 <lardman> cool
Dec 17 10:34:45 <lardman> hmm, started snowing here again
Dec 17 10:34:55 <ieatlint> also great for memory leaks...
Dec 17 10:35:06 <lardman> one thing at a time! ;)
Dec 17 10:36:03 <ieatlint> it's ok, memory leaks aren't important anyway
Dec 17 10:36:06 <ieatlint> :P
Dec 17 10:36:46 <alterego> Heh
Dec 17 10:37:28 <alterego> anyone fancy voting for me package?
Dec 17 10:37:43 <ieatlint> which package?
Dec 17 10:37:47 <alterego> Need four more and tmo is crap
Dec 17 10:37:52 <alterego> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xbox360-media-remote/1.0-1maemo2/
Dec 17 10:39:33 <ieatlint> well, i'd be happy to test it, but both of the xbox360s i own are dead after about a month
Dec 17 10:40:17 <alterego> Heh, well, it has been tested :P
Dec 17 10:40:24 <alterego> Just vote :)
Dec 17 10:40:32 <ieatlint> done :P
Dec 17 10:40:50 <alterego> thanks ^.^
Dec 17 10:40:54 <ieatlint> i need to start threatening to mail people dongles in order for more people to be able to test my app, heh
Dec 17 10:41:37 <alterego> What app is that?
Dec 17 10:41:51 <alterego> I have more dongles than chuck norris
Dec 17 10:41:59 <ieatlint> http://maemo.org/packages/view/magread/
Dec 17 10:42:10 <ieatlint> i don't think chuck norris has this dongle
Dec 17 10:42:16 <ieatlint> so that's a good sign
Dec 17 10:42:44 <alterego> Just say "vote for my app" with this pic: http://images0.cpcache.com/nocache/product/343434130v2147483647_480x480_Front.jpg
Dec 17 10:42:58 <ieatlint> hah
Dec 17 10:43:41 <ieatlint> yeah, but i figure i can also find a handful of trusting souls who would give me an address to mail said dongle to... aside from having actual people testing it, it'd be nice to actually get some basic feedback
Dec 17 10:43:51 <alterego> neat app :)
Dec 17 10:43:57 <alterego> niche, but neat :D
Dec 17 10:43:59 <ieatlint> presently only one other person has an n900 and the dongle
Dec 17 10:44:14 <alterego> Hah, crazy.
Dec 17 10:44:50 <ieatlint> also is straight qt, so the code works on symbian, linux, windows, os x..
Dec 17 10:44:58 <alterego> Nice
Dec 17 10:45:02 <ieatlint> it's like java, but somewhat less crappy
Dec 17 10:46:32 <alterego> :( yeah, that app you just voted was Qt/C++ and QML
Dec 17 10:46:44 <alterego> That was supposed to be a smilie face ..
Dec 17 10:46:47 <alterego> :)
Dec 17 10:46:59 <alterego> How much are the dongles?
Dec 17 10:47:17 <ieatlint> "free"
Dec 17 10:47:18 <alterego> And do you have a link to some known to work hardware?
Dec 17 10:48:05 <ieatlint> i need to take some pics and a video so it isn't just a crappy description, heh
Dec 17 10:48:15 <ieatlint> http://www.apple-iphone.net/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/9549f_image_1-642x481.jpg is someone else's pic of the dongle
Dec 17 10:48:17 <alterego> So, it's a unit that plugs into headphone socket mic input presumably?
Dec 17 10:48:46 <ieatlint> http://www.screentweet.com/content/pipe/?igcid=WPNqRoB;relPath=null;fileName=tn_full.jpg is slightly better pic
Dec 17 10:48:47 <alterego> That is cool
Dec 17 10:48:52 <ieatlint> and yes, that's exactly it
Dec 17 10:48:56 <ieatlint> audio input
Dec 17 10:49:15 <alterego> I didn't even know hey existed, can I make one out of an old tape deck? :D
Dec 17 10:49:19 <lardman> ieatlint: you wanted pdf417 didn't you?
Dec 17 10:49:20 <ieatlint> the dongle has an old cassette tape style head in it, and runs against the magnetic stripe
Dec 17 10:49:25 <ieatlint> lardman: yeah
Dec 17 10:49:29 <alterego> Hahah
Dec 17 10:49:41 <alterego> Awesome.
Dec 17 10:49:42 <ieatlint> i played with zbar a bit, but indeded the pdf417 code is not done
Dec 17 10:49:51 <lardman> I volunteered to take a look at that in zbar, we'll see how I get on
Dec 17 10:50:10 <lardman> alternatively there are some other standalone decoders out there
Dec 17 10:50:14 <ieatlint> alterego: you can make your own, there are instructions online... was in a 2600 article a few years back even
Dec 17 10:50:28 <alterego> Which track/s can it read, it's my undedrstanding there are three?
Dec 17 10:50:49 <ieatlint> you need the tape head, the audio pole connector, and a resistor to prevent any feedback from the mic line going to the read head and erasing the card
Dec 17 10:52:00 <alterego> Hahah
Dec 17 10:52:00 <ieatlint> lardman: yeah, i looked at 2... one worked, but only in ideal conditions.  i was tempted to give it a real look at on zbar, but ultimately determined that i likely would not have the time to learn the zbar code and how pdf417 works and then successfully implement it
Dec 17 10:52:28 <ieatlint> alterego: the company that makes the pictured dongles is called squareup, and they use it as part of a mobile credit card payment system
Dec 17 10:52:29 <lardman> ieatlint: I'll let you know how I get on
Dec 17 10:52:35 <alterego> Well, I might make one if I have time, but you can send me one if you like :D
Dec 17 10:52:43 <ieatlint> they hand out the dongles when you sign up for an account... i have friends who work there who feed me handfuls of dongles, haha
Dec 17 10:52:48 <ieatlint> lardman: awesome
Dec 17 10:53:12 <alterego> Wicked
Dec 17 10:53:33 <ieatlint> alterego: i sent luke-jr one... and he's presumably not been attacked or anything by me.. you can totally trust me
Dec 17 10:53:48 <alterego> :)
Dec 17 10:54:03 <alterego> I'll PM you my address if you like
Dec 17 10:54:08 <ieatlint> email is better
Dec 17 10:54:15 <ieatlint> ieatlint@tehinterweb.com
Dec 17 10:54:30 <alterego> Okay, angon
Dec 17 10:55:13 <ieatlint> oh, and the dongle i can provide is track 2 only... most cards contain two or three tracks (parallel lines of different data).  track 2 is numeric only data, so on a credit card it would be the card number and expiration date
Dec 17 10:56:32 <alterego> send
Dec 17 10:56:49 <alterego> sent  ...
Dec 17 10:57:30 <ieatlint> ok, i'll try to get it out fri or sat..
Dec 17 10:57:42 <alterego> Cool, so this sqauredup offer a payment service for using these dongles on mobile devices?
Dec 17 10:57:57 <ieatlint> yeah, US only right now
Dec 17 10:58:17 <alterego> That, is truely awesome.
Dec 17 10:58:22 <ieatlint> but on android and iphone, it's an app.. you plug in dongle, type in the amount to charge, slide the card
Dec 17 10:58:24 <alterego> Oh, I'm in the UK btw
Dec 17 10:58:30 <ieatlint> yeah, that's fine
Dec 17 10:58:42 <alterego> Cool
Dec 17 10:59:13 <ieatlint> since you slide the card, you pay the lower transaction rate for a slid card instead of a typed card, and it provides geolocation data for "security" which the customer then can see in their emailed-receipt
Dec 17 10:59:15 <alterego> damn, my hands are freezing, better make some breakfast and havde a shower
Dec 17 10:59:20 <ieatlint> it's a fucking cool idea
Dec 17 10:59:33 <alterego> Yeah, that's awsome.
Dec 17 10:59:49 <ieatlint> but it's run by an idiot :P
Dec 17 10:59:57 <ieatlint> co-founder of twitter, heh
Dec 17 11:00:37 <alterego> Heh
Dec 17 11:04:10 <alterego> mslib sounds a bit gatesish :)
Dec 17 11:04:48 <alterego> Anyhow, I better get on bbiab
Dec 17 11:05:08 <ieatlint> hah :P
Dec 17 11:05:12 <ieatlint> i'll await my c&d
Dec 17 11:09:19 <crashanddie> ieatlint, waiting for me?
Dec 17 11:09:53 <ieatlint> are you my c&d, baby? ;)
Dec 17 11:10:06 <crashanddie> well... that's what the nickname says
Dec 17 11:11:56 <ieatlint> ok, i have a week left to get xmas presents, this isn't good
Dec 17 11:18:47 <chem|st> ieatlint: if you get some more spare I would be interested in one or two, we are a bunch of n900s people over here all kind of developers (kind of as in not only or not for n900)
Dec 17 11:19:18 <chem|st> ieatlint: we are still trying to figure our door locks...
Dec 17 11:19:29 <ieatlint> let me count how many i have on hand right now
Dec 17 11:19:51 <ieatlint> well, i can say that hotel keys are typically not compatible with these dongles
Dec 17 11:20:02 <chem|st> ieatlint: no hurry on that, have you got a link handy for the dongle?
Dec 17 11:20:33 <ieatlint> take a look at your door key card and compare it to a credit card.  if the distance between the edge of the card and start of the stripe differs, it almost certainly will not work
Dec 17 11:20:37 <BCMM> this is a dongle that reads magstrips, right?
Dec 17 11:20:45 <ieatlint> yes
Dec 17 11:20:57 <BCMM> i thought some hotel keycards were to a similar spec to credit cards
Dec 17 11:21:15 <chem|st> ieatlint: no the door locks we are looking at are transponder based, we sniff transmissions with soundcards and try to figure out the what happens when and how to reverse engineer
Dec 17 11:21:25 <chem|st> BCMM: or rfid
Dec 17 11:21:32 <BCMM> since i had heard reports that somebody had been busted with a large number of hotel keycards, as a way of hiding cloned CCs
Dec 17 11:21:39 <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: I'd like to give these dongles a try :-D
Dec 17 11:21:44 <ieatlint> i've tried a few hotel key cards from vegas... the magstripes on them were aligned differently
Dec 17 11:22:05 <ieatlint> and even if i could get it to align, it likely doesn't follow either of the two industry standard encoding schemes
Dec 17 11:22:16 <chem|st> ieatlint: you now got it runnin' for good, and testers for your app if shipped ;)
Dec 17 11:22:31 <ieatlint> ... my decoding library would decode it to bits accurately, but not to readable chars unless it follows one of the two supported encoding schemes
Dec 17 11:22:41 <Psi>  heh, latest angry birds update has a few bugs
Dec 17 11:22:47 <Psi> you can load levels that dont exist
Dec 17 11:22:48 <ieatlint> DocScrutinizer: ok, let me see how many i got here
Dec 17 11:23:04 <ieatlint> i'll ask my friends at square for another handful though, heh
Dec 17 11:23:25 <chem|st> ieatlint: just tell me when you got say 2 for me and I paypal you the shipping fee the day you know
Dec 17 11:24:24 <ieatlint> i'm not anticipating shipping costs to be too much... they're very light and small
Dec 17 11:25:35 <chem|st> ieatlint: lets say to germany you could do a collective shipping and I distribute to the fellows
Dec 17 11:25:51 <chem|st> ieatlint: it is at least some $
Dec 17 11:26:02 <ieatlint> yeah, might not be the worst idea
Dec 17 11:26:07 <ieatlint> i have 4 on me now
Dec 17 11:26:44 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: have you been online back in the days ppl used to send harddrives around the globe instead of uploading stuff?!
Dec 17 11:27:31 <ieatlint> http://www.google.com/images?q=square+dongle is the dongle i can give out... it's revision 2 (white, and the gold/yellow pole one that doesn't have the rounded edges)
Dec 17 11:28:51 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: ooh, the stopped doing that?
Dec 17 11:28:56 <DocScrutinizer> they*
Dec 17 11:29:06 <ieatlint> i'll talk to a friend at the company and see how many she can hand off to me
Dec 17 11:29:38 <ieatlint> i can probably ship anywhere from 5-10 out
Dec 17 11:30:32 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: actualy no we didn't... only the carriage changed... 2TB nas to s/o at university (me)... or the TB disc itself...
Dec 17 11:31:40 <ieatlint>  http://tehinterweb.com/square.jpg is a high quality pic i just took of the dongles
Dec 17 11:32:10 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: you ever talked to laf0rge aka Harald Welte about rfid access control systems?
Dec 17 11:32:49 <DocScrutinizer> I recall he told me some funny details about his investigations regarding this topic, when we met in Taipei
Dec 17 11:32:50 <chem|st> welte... the name sounds familiar
Dec 17 11:33:08 <DocScrutinizer> google
Dec 17 11:33:11 <Psi> rfid has access control ?   hm.. who knew  :P
Dec 17 11:33:29 <DocScrutinizer> nah, access control has rfid
Dec 17 11:33:35 <Psi> hehe
Dec 17 11:33:59 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen laf0rge
Dec 17 11:34:08 <infobot> laf0rge <n=laforge@sunbeam.ipv6.gnumonks.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 408d 10h 10m 54s ago, saying: 'laf0rge sends a 'korean wave' back to rwhitby ;)'.
Dec 17 11:34:25 <Psi> haha, 408 days
Dec 17 11:34:45 <Psi> he cant join now, it will ruin his downtime
Dec 17 11:42:04 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: we were looking at http://www.wagner-sicherheit.de/shop/images/artikel/16939.jpg
Dec 17 11:44:20 <chem|st> and as they are cheap we tried to melt down the 1st chip layer to get the challenge response algorythm, but stopped at some point where my ceo got notice of me using company resources for it (working at a thinfilm and surface analytics lab)
Dec 17 11:45:08 <Psi> heh
Dec 17 11:45:24 <chem|st> the procedures to dissect the chip are quiet complex
Dec 17 11:46:00 <chem|st> as you do not want to destroy the layer but look through it to see the second
Dec 17 11:50:23 <mece> what the shit? Is there no standard function for md5 hashing in javascript??
Dec 17 11:51:09 <mece> ah qt global pobject. yay!
Dec 17 11:51:52 <mece> whew. I was almost a little upset there. :)
Dec 17 11:52:57 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: hehe
Dec 17 11:54:37 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: you know GDR has produced a Z80 chip clone, produced from some 10 or 20 Zilog Z80 smuggled over the iron curtain and got cut into slices and analyzed with an electron microscope :-D
Dec 17 11:55:59 <DocScrutinizer> they came up with a instruction set datasheet done by RE from chip, that had some "secret" new instructions Zilog never mentioned
Dec 17 11:56:36 <DocScrutinizer> of coursae, as the clone was an exact copy, the datasheet was aplicable to original Zilog chips as well
Dec 17 11:57:36 <alterego> Need two more votes
Dec 17 11:58:26 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: would you like to vote for my app? :)
Dec 17 11:58:38 * alterego suspects he knows the answer already
Dec 17 11:58:40 <DocScrutinizer> on my way
Dec 17 11:58:46 <alterego> Yay :)
Dec 17 11:59:56 <Arkenoi> huh? mag stripe reading dongles? where can i get one? i was looking for it for a few weeks but was unable to find one
Dec 17 12:01:05 <lardman> ieatlint: you'll have to start charging soon! ;)
Dec 17 12:01:16 <alterego> Heh
Dec 17 12:01:17 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: errr, which page? I see ONE vote
Dec 17 12:01:30 <alterego> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xbox360-media-remote/1.0-1maemo2/
Dec 17 12:01:37 <DocScrutinizer> uhh
Dec 17 12:01:59 <ieatlint> lardman: huh, normally it's the other way around
Dec 17 12:02:04 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, I need to test this one prior to voting for it
Dec 17 12:02:14 <alterego> Okay then
Dec 17 12:02:35 <zap> X-Fade: hi! how it's going? :)
Dec 17 12:02:40 <alterego> Tmo thread is a list of all the issues that people have been having
Dec 17 12:02:54 <alterego> Namely one, (the buttons are apparently too small)
Dec 17 12:03:47 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: would be nice though if you can validate my method of adding/removing lircd config
Dec 17 12:04:00 <alterego> And sudoers
Dec 17 12:04:52 <DocScrutinizer> k, I could probably have a look at the sources and vote based on that. I guess that's still better than what most "testers" do
Dec 17 12:05:41 <alterego> ;)
Dec 17 12:05:52 <Arkenoi> so is there any source for the dongles? i posted a blog entry asking where can i buy one, there was quite a long discussion and the bottom line was "we do not know, make it yourself"
Dec 17 12:06:25 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, i voted based on the fact that voting is retarded and only makes promotion slower
Dec 17 12:06:52 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: http://images2.cpcache.com/nocache/product/343170462v2147483647_480x480_Front.jpg
Dec 17 12:07:40 <MohammadAG> alterego, you owe me a vote
Dec 17 12:08:07 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: *COUGH*
Dec 17 12:08:24 <ieatlint> Arkenoi: i'm not aware of any place that makes the dongles for sale
Dec 17 12:08:47 <BCMM> alterego: you can tell be the extremely questionable choice of typefaces
Dec 17 12:08:48 <alterego> I thought we'd already discussed this, that vote was a favour towards the tonnes of help I give you in regards to Qt and development :P
Dec 17 12:08:50 <BCMM> s/be/by/
Dec 17 12:08:50 <DocScrutinizer> except ebay I guess :-P
Dec 17 12:08:51 <infobot> BCMM meant: alterego: you can tell by the extremely questionable choice of typefaces
Dec 17 12:08:56 <alterego> Heh
Dec 17 12:09:41 <ieatlint> alterego: this is the gift to get a web developer: http://www.zazzle.com/css_is_awesome_mug-168716435071981928
Dec 17 12:09:52 <MohammadAG> alterego, I've yet to the commit I was promixed :P
Dec 17 12:09:54 <MohammadAG> promised*
Dec 17 12:10:12 <alterego> Hah
Dec 17 12:10:21 <alterego> Good point :P
Dec 17 12:10:24 <MohammadAG> also, someone should photoshop that to "Trust me, I use Qt Designer"
Dec 17 12:10:32 <ieatlint> haha
Dec 17 12:10:38 <alterego> Sorry, I've been quite busyp promise I'll look at it tomorrow ;)
Dec 17 12:10:50 <BCMM> nah, "trust me, i'm Qt Designer"
Dec 17 12:11:02 <BCMM> you'd need a font that was both scifi "computer-ish", and creepy
Dec 17 12:11:12 <alterego> ieatlint: page doesn't load for me, just plain white ..
Dec 17 12:11:32 <ieatlint> haha, that's extra win then
Dec 17 12:11:49 <DocScrutinizer> "trust me, I'm DocScrutinizer" HAH, now I know what to write to my wishlist
Dec 17 12:11:56 <ieatlint> http://laughingsquid.com/css-is-awesome/
Dec 17 12:11:59 <alterego> Hahah
Dec 17 12:12:01 <ieatlint> that should work
Dec 17 12:12:24 <Arkenoi> there should be a source where squareup gets it? i doubt they make it by themselves.
Dec 17 12:12:33 <alterego> Oh, hah, thass good :)
Dec 17 12:12:35 <ieatlint> Arkenoi: they do
Dec 17 12:13:32 <alterego> What ahppened to all the super testers?
Dec 17 12:14:23 <MohammadAG> alterego, it was a retarded concept, I thought qwerty12's rant already got that point across :P
Dec 17 12:15:38 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: Exec=/opt/usr/bin/xbox360-media-remote ?? no way!
Dec 17 12:15:59 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: ?
Dec 17 12:16:18 <alterego> You don't like the path? :P
Dec 17 12:16:23 <DocScrutinizer> you got /opt/usr/bin in your $PATH?
Dec 17 12:16:25 <DocScrutinizer> no?
Dec 17 12:16:43 <alterego> Don't blame me for how Qt creator does packaging ...
Dec 17 12:16:51 * alterego 's excuse
Dec 17 12:17:04 <DocScrutinizer> then make a symlink from /usr/bin/xboxfoo to /opt/usr/bin/xboxfoo
Dec 17 12:17:14 <alterego> pfft, why?
Dec 17 12:17:16 <ieatlint> so i'll try and get a bunch more dongles and then will try and offer anyone who i recognise in here a dongle if they wish
Dec 17 12:17:27 <alterego> It works as its' intended to work.
Dec 17 12:17:39 <DocScrutinizer> aHA
Dec 17 12:18:06 <DocScrutinizer> k, vote down from me then. Doesn't work when invoked via ssh -X
Dec 17 12:18:22 <alterego> it does when you specify the correct path :P
Dec 17 12:18:54 <DocScrutinizer> the point is I'm not supposed to even know the "correct path"
Dec 17 12:19:16 <alterego> Exactly so don't complain about what you're not meant to know :P
Dec 17 12:19:34 <DocScrutinizer> You asked for it - you get your vote
Dec 17 12:19:46 <DocScrutinizer> thumb-down
Dec 17 12:19:56 <alterego> Fine be like that then
Dec 17 12:20:13 <alterego> You're just being ridiculous :P
Dec 17 12:20:41 <DocScrutinizer> you're just being ignorant and lazy
Dec 17 12:21:02 <alterego> Lazy, possibly, ignorant? that's bullshit
Dec 17 12:21:06 <alterego> I knew the path
Dec 17 12:21:23 <DocScrutinizer> you know a shit about PATH
Dec 17 12:21:38 <alterego> The app doesn't require $PATH
Dec 17 12:21:50 <DocScrutinizer> tzz, see^^^
Dec 17 12:22:06 <DocScrutinizer> no app is allowed to require $PATH
Dec 17 12:22:09 <alterego> patches welcome for v2
Dec 17 12:22:17 <DocScrutinizer> $PATH is for *user*
Dec 17 12:22:19 <alterego> I'm not going to chnage it for you
Dec 17 12:22:58 <DocScrutinizer> you're not changing it for ME, you're changing it to show you're not a luser
Dec 17 12:23:15 <alterego> -_-
Dec 17 12:23:21 <DocScrutinizer> who knows a shit about unix
Dec 17 12:23:25 <lardman> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11998793
Dec 17 12:23:29 <lardman> interesting
Dec 17 12:23:35 <alterego> I'm not changing it because it doesn't matter
Dec 17 12:24:08 <DocScrutinizer> if your app doesn't matter, so why bother about it at all?
Dec 17 12:24:14 <DocScrutinizer> MEH
Dec 17 12:24:43 <alterego> The app is supposed to be run from .desktop, don't like it, deal with it. Would you rather I did what everyone else does and install to some vendor specific dir under opt for every app and added a million items to your $PATH?
Dec 17 12:25:08 <ieatlint> wow.. "Now users of its One Plan tariff can get 2,000 any-network voice minutes, 5,000 Three-to-Three minutes, 5,000 texts and any amount of data for £25 a month." .. that's insanely cheap compared to the prices i pay
Dec 17 12:25:28 <lardman> I've no clue how I could even use 2k minutes a month
Dec 17 12:25:41 <lardman> 5k sms, how...?
Dec 17 12:25:51 <ieatlint> lardman: teenage girls
Dec 17 12:26:00 <MohammadAG> most apps developed with maemo in mind use /opt to launch
Dec 17 12:26:06 <lardman> I should sms teenage girls, yeah I guess that would do it
Dec 17 12:26:09 <lardman> ;)
Dec 17 12:26:15 <BCMM> lardman: use SMS like instant messaging...
Dec 17 12:26:32 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: you're more ignorant than I thought
Dec 17 12:26:41 <BCMM> (assuming you first use IM like a teenage girl does)
Dec 17 12:26:56 <alterego> m'hmm
Dec 17 12:26:56 <ieatlint> to get unlimited minutes, sms and data on my carrier would be $100
Dec 17 12:26:56 <BCMM> i mean, half of those 5k are just "lol" or a smiley
Dec 17 12:27:05 * lardman prefers to just use data and real IM if that's the need
Dec 17 12:27:15 <lardman> BCMM: yes that's true
Dec 17 12:27:21 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, when you install something in /opt on Ubuntu, can you launch it without a path?
Dec 17 12:27:35 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: seriously, I'm not going to add it now, because its' minor, doesn't effect normal usage and doesn't matter
Dec 17 12:27:42 <BCMM> basically, if somebody else is paying, SMS is just a type of instant messaging...
Dec 17 12:28:06 <DocScrutinizer> probably not, because when I install anything to buntkuh, I must have got a shot to my brain first to even do that
Dec 17 12:28:18 <alterego> I'll add it to v2 for you, your complaint is noticed, but I'm not changing it now. Vote down and stop calling me ignorant just because we have a difference of opinion.
Dec 17 12:29:19 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, when you install something in /opt on openSUSE, can you launch it without a path?
Dec 17 12:30:03 <DocScrutinizer> it *is* ignorant to call failing tab-expansion in shell, failing manpage integration as there's no proper path for the manpage, even uttering nonsense about "adding shit to $PATH" while that's exactly what's not meant to be done...
Dec 17 12:30:14 <DocScrutinizer> oh my... nevermind
Dec 17 12:30:27 <MohammadAG> on that note
Dec 17 12:30:41 <MohammadAG> how are arguments tabbed in some cli binaries?
Dec 17 12:31:00 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: submit a but against PR1.3 about it, or Qt maemo
Dec 17 12:31:05 <MohammadAG> few do it, rpm is one
Dec 17 12:31:20 <alterego> It's not my place to fix Qt Creators default install variables.
Dec 17 12:31:52 <alterego> Personally I think its' neater than what most do, especially in regards to fscking symlinks in /usr/bin !
Dec 17 12:31:57 <DocScrutinizer> LEARN TO READ! THEN READ FHS
Dec 17 12:32:38 <MohammadAG> FHS applies to an FS with no retarded duct taped /opt
Dec 17 12:33:08 <DocScrutinizer> and please stop to try teach me how to do proper system config, by quoting bad example
Dec 17 12:34:01 <alterego> What config?
Dec 17 12:34:09 <alterego> You don't need to config anything
Dec 17 12:34:17 <alterego> It works as is intended.
Dec 17 12:34:26 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: that's BS. FHS *is*, it's the duct tape fs that doesn't comply with FHS, due to ignorants that think it's enough of an excuse there is such duct tape shit, so they can add even more shit
Dec 17 12:34:49 <ieatlint> geek arguments aren't that exciting :(
Dec 17 12:35:01 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: do yourself a favour and stop arguing in that way
Dec 17 12:35:05 <alterego> Maybe not how you'd like it, but arguing about this is just a waste of both of our time. Vote it down, I don't care.
Dec 17 12:38:28 <DocScrutinizer> "why connect protective earth, it WORKS as expected" - meh, c'mon. Really you should all be ashamed to enter such level of argumentation
Dec 17 12:38:54 * DocScrutinizer away to deal with more promising things
Dec 17 12:40:16 <alterego> bbl
Dec 17 12:40:20 <chem|st> ieatlint: ty
Dec 17 12:41:26 <ieatlint> np
Dec 17 12:41:58 <ieatlint> just repay me by trying the code i wrote, and if practical making a comment about it on something like twitter or a blog
Dec 17 12:42:19 <ieatlint> trying to get a job programming, and increasing exposure of code i wrote will help i think :P
Dec 17 12:45:43 <chem|st> ieatlint: sure
Dec 17 12:46:09 <chem|st> ieatlint: did you specialice in anything yet
Dec 17 12:46:19 <chem|st> ize*
Dec 17 12:46:29 <lardman> ise!
Dec 17 12:46:38 <chem|st> whatever
Dec 17 12:46:44 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG:
Dec 17 12:46:47 <DocScrutinizer> jr@halley:~> ll `which eagle`
Dec 17 12:46:48 <lardman> don't worry just Eng vs American
Dec 17 12:46:49 <DocScrutinizer> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 25. Apr 2008  /usr/bin/eagle -> /opt/eagle/bin/eagle
Dec 17 12:47:07 <chem|st> not even uk ppl don't know about the difference anymore
Dec 17 12:47:10 <DocScrutinizer> jr@halley:~> echo $PATH
Dec 17 12:47:12 <DocScrutinizer> /home/jr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/games:/opt/kde3/bin:/usr/lib/jvm/jre/bin:/usr/lib/mit/bin:/usr/lib/mit/sbin:/usr/lib/qt3/bin
Dec 17 12:47:16 <ieatlint> uh, i've been using C for years, intermediate with GTK and Qt
Dec 17 12:47:35 <chem|st> ieatlint: mind to move?
Dec 17 12:47:37 <lardman> chem|st: that's the insidious use of M$ Word and not being able to disable US-Eng dictionary
Dec 17 12:47:39 <ieatlint> *nix environments a lot.. have experience with a bunch of random libs
Dec 17 12:47:50 <chem|st> lardman: and media!
Dec 17 12:47:56 <ieatlint> would probably be an issue to move :P
Dec 17 12:48:06 <chem|st> why?
Dec 17 12:48:07 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: /opt/kde3/bin meets the requirement of "large packets" that are allowed to do this
Dec 17 12:48:10 <ieatlint> including that whole work visa/permit thing
Dec 17 12:48:12 <lardman> chem|st: internet yeah, but they still spell correctly in the newspapers
Dec 17 12:49:00 <ieatlint> plus, assuming you mean to .de, my german is pretty fucking terrible
Dec 17 12:49:03 <chem|st> ieatlint: you are uk citizen?
Dec 17 12:49:15 <ieatlint> nah, i'm in california
Dec 17 12:49:38 <jacekowski> good for you
Dec 17 12:49:49 <ieatlint> thanks!
Dec 17 12:49:50 <jacekowski> you should have to wait in queues for visa
Dec 17 12:50:01 <jacekowski> and then speak to imigration officers at airports
Dec 17 12:50:09 <jacekowski> and sometimes be returned without any reason
Dec 17 12:50:14 <chem|st> ieatlint: ah ok
Dec 17 12:50:32 <ieatlint> and you should get bitchy at me because i happen to be in a country that has controversial policies, and simply assume that i support them
Dec 17 12:50:47 <jacekowski> you were born there
Dec 17 12:51:15 <chem|st> jacekowski: thats what they do in cuba... they have an extra line just for usa peops
Dec 17 12:51:44 <ieatlint> yeah, that was a regrettable decision of mine, wasn't it?
Dec 17 12:52:23 <lardman> in the UK you seem to get into the country faster if you're not from the UK
Dec 17 12:52:36 <chem|st> ieatlint: you should get out of there and see the world for once
Dec 17 12:52:48 <chem|st> lardman: and out as well...
Dec 17 12:52:49 <lardman> i.e. lots of staff on the non-UK/Euro desks
Dec 17 12:52:57 <derf> lardman: I noticed that, too.
Dec 17 12:53:08 <ieatlint> i have... been to europe ~10 times...
Dec 17 12:53:14 <lardman> makes me proud to be British :p
Dec 17 12:53:28 <ieatlint> visited ~15 countries in europe..
Dec 17 12:53:29 <jacekowski> lardman: you just have to run to border before anybody else gets there
Dec 17 12:53:33 <jacekowski> lardman: and then it takes 30s
Dec 17 12:53:50 <lardman> nah, they always have a backlog on the UK/Euro desk afaict
Dec 17 12:53:50 <jacekowski> ieatlint: well, in europe there is no borders
Dec 17 12:53:55 <ieatlint> and i generally specify that i'm from california and not the US for that specific reason
Dec 17 12:54:02 <chem|st> lardman: wouldn't be too proud of that... (I feel a bit yorkshire'ish)
Dec 17 12:54:08 <ieatlint> jacekowski: well, having been stopped at several of them, that's news to me
Dec 17 12:54:19 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: can you point me to extras testing policy for a mention of PATH integration plox
Dec 17 12:54:24 <ieatlint> in fact, i was stopped and searched driving into france once
Dec 17 12:54:35 <chem|st> ieatlint: you got an austrian as gouv?!
Dec 17 12:54:38 <alterego> And any docs that state FHS compliance in maemo
Dec 17 12:54:55 <ieatlint> chem|st: indeed... but only until january 4
Dec 17 12:55:14 <chem|st> ieatlint: who is next?
Dec 17 12:55:25 * alterego should probably not feed the troll :)
Dec 17 12:55:34 <ieatlint> jacekowski: oh, and btw, i'm in san francisco, the most left-wing major city in the US... so try and tell me that i'm an evil hating american :P
Dec 17 12:55:48 <ieatlint> chem|st: guy named jerry brown
Dec 17 12:56:00 <chem|st> ieatlint: sounds 'right'
Dec 17 12:56:21 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: can you point me to any docs declaring ASCII as the primary encoding used in maemo? Please stop it now. I'm seriously bored about your insisting in doing your fancy little shit the wrong way, and then even claiming it's OK
Dec 17 12:56:59 <jacekowski> ekhm, asci is so 20 years ago
Dec 17 12:57:06 <ieatlint> chem|st: nah, jerry brown is left... he's pro-gay marriage (same as our current governator), and was also governor back in the 1970s when he was famous for trying to stop the death penalty
Dec 17 12:57:09 <alterego> hahah
Dec 17 12:57:17 <alterego> Nice argument DocScrutinizer
Dec 17 12:57:29 <chem|st> jacekowski: and why do I have an ascii cahr table just in front of me?
Dec 17 12:57:37 <alterego> I would have thought adhering to extras testing policy would be enough
Dec 17 12:57:50 <jacekowski> chem|st: because it's partialy compatible with utf-8
Dec 17 12:58:16 <Venemo> hey!
Dec 17 12:58:19 <chem|st> ieatlint: so he's going to try that again?
Dec 17 12:58:23 <jacekowski> yey!
Dec 17 12:58:24 <Venemo> MohammadAG: I got a 5 for my homework! :P
Dec 17 12:58:30 <alterego> Anyhow gotta dash
Dec 17 12:58:38 <chem|st> back to the roots!
Dec 17 12:58:39 <alterego> bbl
Dec 17 12:58:41 <ieatlint> chem|st: the death penalty thing? ... sadly, no
Dec 17 12:58:59 <jacekowski> which death penalty thing?
Dec 17 12:59:08 <MohammadAG> Venemo, congrats, told you you'll be fine :D
Dec 17 12:59:09 <jacekowski> btw. do you know that US has highest incarceration rate
Dec 17 12:59:29 <ieatlint> jacekowski: are you seriously going to do this?
Dec 17 12:59:33 <jacekowski> and it's something extremly high like 1% of total population is in prison
Dec 17 12:59:35 <chem|st> governator lost his "key to the city" and special citizenship back home because he did not deny one
Dec 17 12:59:49 <ieatlint> do you seek out an american tourist and try to hold them accountable for their government's actions?
Dec 17 13:00:13 <jacekowski> nah i don't care
Dec 17 13:00:13 <ieatlint> chem|st: yeah, arnold is not against the death penalty
Dec 17 13:00:45 <lardman> hmm, /me is slightly worries that the actions of ones country are being taken out on a single person
Dec 17 13:00:50 <ieatlint> i could sit here insulting france, which is just as trendy, but somehow i don't think you're the one telling sarkozy what to do
Dec 17 13:01:33 <chem|st> ieatlint: there is a law school team bumping old files of death penalty and proof most of them wrong...
Dec 17 13:02:19 <ieatlint> chem|st: yeah, i fully agree that it's inhumane...
Dec 17 13:03:01 <ieatlint> we last executed someone in california in 2005... but i think one is scheduled for january :(
Dec 17 13:03:19 <chem|st> thats the courts fault not the guy's who is for death penalty
Dec 17 13:03:36 <ieatlint> not just the court
Dec 17 13:03:57 <chem|st> they do that jsut to proof that lots of people are imprissoned not guilty
Dec 17 13:03:58 <ieatlint> the prosecutor has to ask for it, the jury has to unanimously vote for it, and the judge has to accept it
Dec 17 13:04:26 <chem|st> ieatlint: that's what I meant by court
Dec 17 13:04:44 <derf> You can't be "for" a policy without also being for the system used to execute that policy.
Dec 17 13:04:55 <derf> The two are not independent.
Dec 17 13:06:55 <ieatlint> well, i'm happily against the death penalty, and happy to live in a city that has a policy to never use it ... and somehow it doesn't affect our murder rate
Dec 17 13:07:12 <lardman> guns
Dec 17 13:07:37 <lardman> this is an old one, /me looks at the #maemo achive to save arguing again :)
Dec 17 13:07:54 <ieatlint> haha
Dec 17 13:08:03 <ieatlint> i'm sure we can list off some other controversial topics
Dec 17 13:09:38 <chem|st> sure... sex with furniture
Dec 17 13:09:44 <chem|st> ;)
Dec 17 13:09:48 <GAN900> jacekowski, drug laws.
Dec 17 13:10:00 <DocScrutinizer> FHS :-P
Dec 17 13:10:12 <GAN900> jacekowski, responsible for the vast majority of those incarcerations.
Dec 17 13:10:12 <ieatlint> chem|st: plenty of that going on around here
Dec 17 13:10:30 <GAN900> Could fix the deficit if you legalized most stuff today.
Dec 17 13:10:52 <ieatlint> there we go, one of the more recent controversial topics
Dec 17 13:11:00 <ieatlint> we decriminalized it at least
Dec 17 13:11:31 <ieatlint> up to 1oz (28.5grams -- more than 5 times the amount holland allows)
Dec 17 13:12:27 <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: the blue crosses on your blog pics are hard to spot
Dec 17 13:12:56 <ieatlint> yeah, i should go look at gnuplot settings to figure out how to make them bigger, or use a different graphing tool
Dec 17 13:13:48 <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: I hope you use a moving window algo (i.e. a fifo for the last n samples) to create that offset graph in your lib
Dec 17 13:14:25 * lardman heads off for lunch
Dec 17 13:14:31 <ieatlint> not sure what you mean
Dec 17 13:14:46 <trx> can anyone tell me what is the linux function that does the same as keybd_event on windows?
Dec 17 13:15:03 <ieatlint> i don't copy the data to make the offset if that's what you mean
Dec 17 13:15:16 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Dec 17 13:15:28 <ieatlint> i also implemented another method for decoding that doesn't use an offset, but i haven't made a blog post about it
Dec 17 13:16:16 <pablo2> Possible through icon to send the notification area?
Dec 17 13:16:40 <DocScrutinizer> bool crossing(x){return (graph[x] == fifo[offset]}
Dec 17 13:16:41 <ieatlint> to do the offset method, i just have two iterators for the same data (an s16le array), one starts at 0 and one starts at N
Dec 17 13:17:54 <ieatlint> more like i=0, offset=3; crossing( data[i], data[i+offset] )
Dec 17 13:18:26 <ieatlint> https://github.com/ieatlint/mslib/blob/master/mslib.c line 109
Dec 17 13:18:32 <DocScrutinizer> fifo[x] = graph[x - offset]
Dec 17 13:19:06 <ieatlint> that's my equiv for your crossing() func, and line 116 is the function that calls that as it traverses the array
Dec 17 13:19:07 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, I think we say the same
Dec 17 13:20:27 <ieatlint> my other method just absolute-values all the numbers, and whenever data[i] < data[i-1] it records it
Dec 17 13:20:59 <ieatlint> ignoring any that occur under a threshold of say 300
Dec 17 13:21:17 <ieatlint> and i'm referring to amplitude for the values with all this
Dec 17 13:22:17 <ieatlint> i then follow the documented system on the blog... all valid peaks are an opposite polarity from the previous one, so i just group by polarity and pick the highest amplitude from each group
Dec 17 13:22:56 <ieatlint> and that code is straight c89, so it works on pretty much any system (tested on osx, windows, linux, symbian)
Dec 17 14:49:24 <Justus> hi
Dec 17 14:49:41 <Justus> is it possible to flip the screen of the n900 horizontally and vertically?
Dec 17 14:54:44 <pupnik> anybody want to test latest libflashplayer.so for omap3
Dec 17 14:54:47 <andre__> Justus: yes and no. what do you want to do?
Dec 17 15:43:17 <trx> is there something like sticky keys in maemo?
Dec 17 15:47:56 <andre__> trx: shift and blue arrow on the keyboard?
Dec 17 15:48:49 <trx> im trying to emulate that behavior, when you once press shift, it stays pressed until a key stroke in my application
Dec 17 15:49:02 <trx> so far no luck with any method i tried :/
Dec 17 15:52:03 <nomis> trx: uh, it works that way for me - e.g. in the notes application.
Dec 17 15:53:22 <trx> doesnt work for me as im using GTK2 and custom controls (lazarus LCL (fpc))
Dec 17 15:53:58 <trx> trouble is, i can send a key stroke to my memo field
Dec 17 15:54:10 <luke-jr> fail
Dec 17 15:54:11 <trx> but cant send Shift+key stroke
Dec 17 15:54:16 <luke-jr> stop using GTK crap!
Dec 17 15:54:27 <trx> i would if i could
Dec 17 15:54:44 <trx> but i dont want to create gui by code
Dec 17 15:55:02 <trx> when i can just place components on a form..
Dec 17 15:56:09 <jasuarez> andre__: is there possible that more than one people can handle bugs in a maemo project?
Dec 17 15:56:36 <nomis> luke-jr: hah, I nearly fell for your trolling attempt.
Dec 17 15:58:01 <andre__> jaska, how do you mean?
Dec 17 15:58:10 <andre__> argh. sorry. ^ jasuarez
Dec 17 15:58:20 <andre__> (damn autocomplete)
Dec 17 15:58:24 <jasuarez> :)
Dec 17 15:58:41 <jasuarez> I'm working in the project with other guy, but he's able to change bugs related that project
Dec 17 15:58:47 <jasuarez> but I can't
Dec 17 15:59:15 <jasuarez> if i check my permissions, it says i have access to bugs
Dec 17 15:59:24 <andre__> well, which one, so I can check?
Dec 17 15:59:30 <jasuarez> seriesfinale
Dec 17 15:59:37 <andre__> and "change bugs" is also a bit... vague ;-)
Dec 17 15:59:39 <andre__> let me see
Dec 17 15:59:50 <jasuarez> thank you
Dec 17 16:01:32 <andre__> jasuarez, can you try again? looks like I had marked you as seriesfinale dev, but without editbugs permissions :-(
Dec 17 16:01:44 <jasuarez> trying
Dec 17 16:02:27 <jasuarez> andre__: thanks! it works fine
Dec 17 16:02:35 <andre__> cool
Dec 17 16:12:12 <MohammadAG> alterego, it might be easier to add the link to your signature in red and bold
Dec 17 16:14:32 <luke-jr> trx: bad joke? GTK is GUI-by-code; Qt has always been about visual design
Dec 17 16:14:58 <trx> nope
Dec 17 16:15:05 <trx> not in lazarus
Dec 17 16:15:22 <luke-jr> wtf is lazarus nonsense?
Dec 17 16:15:29 <luke-jr> in any case, Qt > GTK always
Dec 17 16:16:00 <trx> i really dont care what is >
Dec 17 16:16:17 <trx> i care about functionality
Dec 17 16:19:24 <nomis> luke-jr: do you have some kind of evidence for that statement?
Dec 17 16:19:49 <luke-jr> nomis: anything GTK can do, Qt already does better
Dec 17 16:20:16 * MohammadAG suggests an example
Dec 17 16:20:22 <MohammadAG> DBus in C and C++/Qt
Dec 17 16:20:26 <MohammadAG> have fun
Dec 17 16:20:41 <Jaffa> luke-jr: And, let me guess, vim is always better than emacs; and C++ is *always* better than Java?
Dec 17 16:20:51 <DocScrutinizer> andre__: :-D
Dec 17 16:20:55 * Jaffa resists a childish Star Wars quote about absolutes.
Dec 17 16:21:00 <nomis> MohammadAG: hah, and how is GTK+ related to DBus?  :
Dec 17 16:21:01 <nomis> :)
Dec 17 16:21:06 <luke-jr> Jaffa: as much as I hate C++, it is definitely always better than Java ☺
Dec 17 16:21:16 <MohammadAG> it isn't, I just brought up a fail example :P
Dec 17 16:21:22 <nomis> yeah, and C is always better than C++. And I mean that.
Dec 17 16:21:28 <luke-jr> MohammadAG: it doesn't prove anything
Dec 17 16:21:34 <luke-jr> nomis: but GTK isn't C
Dec 17 16:21:41 <nomis> luke-jr: how so?
Dec 17 16:21:44 <Jaffa> luke-jr: You don't seem sure...
Dec 17 16:21:44 <luke-jr> it's "omg let's reinvent C++ using C syntax!"
Dec 17 16:21:55 <nomis> luke-jr: the compile times suggest otherwise.
Dec 17 16:22:05 <luke-jr> nomis: that's unrelated to language
Dec 17 16:22:13 <lcuk> psst luke-jr - C++ is OMG lets reinvent objects using C syntax
Dec 17 16:22:17 <nomis> luke-jr: and it is a stock C compiler, (which in turn is not true for Qt and C++ btw.)
Dec 17 16:22:28 <luke-jr> lcuk: C++ is the initial extension ☺
Dec 17 16:22:38 <luke-jr> nomis: Qt isn't C++
Dec 17 16:22:43 <nomis> luke-jr: I know that.
Dec 17 16:23:01 <luke-jr> nomis: when you change core language constructs, you have a new language
Dec 17 16:23:03 <luke-jr> both GTK and Qt do that
Dec 17 16:23:34 <nomis> luke-jr: you don't need some proprietary preprocessor thingie to transform Gtk+-code into C that works with GCC.
Dec 17 16:23:37 <luke-jr> the fact that they are commonly implemented in C and C++ is no more relevant than the fact that Python is implemented in C
Dec 17 16:23:52 <GAN900> Why do the Android trolls always seem to come out in force on Talk. . . .
Dec 17 16:24:24 <nomis> luke-jr: and I challenge you to show me some piece of code of the GTK+ library that is *not* C.
Dec 17 16:24:50 <nomis> (apart from language bindings of course)
Dec 17 16:24:52 <pupnik> gtk we hardly knew ye
Dec 17 16:24:54 <luke-jr> nomis: that's because GTK has crappy syntax ☺
Dec 17 16:24:55 <luke-jr> and, I argue that you do
Dec 17 16:24:56 <trx> also, if you all know what is better, please, have a look at my question, and if possible give me a suggestion...
Dec 17 16:24:57 <luke-jr> it just happens to be part of the C standard
Dec 17 16:24:59 <luke-jr> I doubt GTK would work well without the C preprocessor
Dec 17 16:25:12 <luke-jr> nomis: irrelevant
Dec 17 16:25:34 <luke-jr> also, Qt is *faster* at least at runtime
Dec 17 16:25:41 <luke-jr> (slow compiles are of course a fault of your compiler)
Dec 17 16:26:05 <nomis> luke-jr: slow compiles is a fault of the broken design of C++.
Dec 17 16:26:14 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: that's BS. Qt isn't changing anything of C++
Dec 17 16:26:16 <pupnik> in what way is qt faster?  can this be qualified further luke-jr ?
Dec 17 16:26:42 <nomis> DocScrutinizer: you need a proprietary preprocessor for the signal/slot extensions to "C++".
Dec 17 16:27:04 <DocScrutinizer> I know
Dec 17 16:27:11 <nomis> "proprietary" in the sense of "Qt-specific".
Dec 17 16:27:17 <DocScrutinizer> still it's a full C++, just with extensions
Dec 17 16:27:40 <nomis> DocScrutinizer: no, the language the programmer writes is not C++, since it contains syntax elements alien to C++.
Dec 17 16:27:45 <DocScrutinizer> so Qt doesn't *change* C++, it just augments it
Dec 17 16:27:49 <lcuk> Jaffa, ping
Dec 17 16:28:03 <DocScrutinizer> MEH
Dec 17 16:29:44 <nomis> sorry, I tend to be touchy on that subect.
Dec 17 16:41:53 <alterego> MohammadAG: probably, but I barely use tmo anymore :P
Dec 17 16:56:22 <thp> andre__: Is "Fixed in Harmattan" new or was bug 5402 just the first one where I saw it?
Dec 17 16:56:24 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/5402 Image Viewer missing rubber-banding (bounce) effect
Dec 17 16:56:41 <andre__> thp, just the first one you saw.
Dec 17 17:11:43 <GAN900> thp, pretty sure those started last year. :P
Dec 17 17:16:47 <MohammadAG> but they haven't been used a lot
Dec 17 17:17:16 <andre__> maybe because Harmattan is still too vague. ;-)
Dec 17 17:17:38 <lardman> yes vague it is
Dec 17 17:55:26 <DocScrutinizer51> btw could someone pst me an example codeline where Qt is introducing nin C++ syntax elements?
Dec 17 17:56:01 <DocScrutinizer51> except from those used in GUI designer files
Dec 17 17:57:04 <Venemo> hey
Dec 17 17:57:10 <alterego> Aloha
Dec 17 17:57:32 <crashanddie> Our customers and IT teams have been reporting voice-call issues (hashing, accelerated voice, lost calls) on our VoIP server
Dec 17 17:58:29 <crashanddie> I just stress tested a machine similar to our production machines (dual quad core 3Ghz, 8Gb RAM), by making it compute random floating point divisions, starving it off RAM and killing the IO (dd, I love you)
Dec 17 17:58:35 <Venemo> alterego: I got a 5 for the puzzle app :)
Dec 17 17:58:54 <alterego> Yeah, I saw earlier as I was logging off, well done! :)
Dec 17 17:59:00 <crashanddie> and the 30 calls I had going from my machine kept going without a drop in the packet rate until *after* sshd had crashed
Dec 17 17:59:02 <alterego> Out of 5  presumably? :)
Dec 17 17:59:23 <Venemo> alterego: will upload to -devel today :)
Dec 17 17:59:51 <alterego> Sweet :)
Dec 17 18:00:09 * alterego sets up a debian VM
Dec 17 18:00:18 <Venemo> alterego: the teacher said he likes it so much that he'll install it to his own N900 :P
Dec 17 18:00:28 <alterego> Heh;, very cool :D
Dec 17 18:00:31 <crashanddie> In other words, I'm at a loss to explain why our teams are seeing issues with the product, when even in the harshest conditions, the server is running better than expected... If anyone has ideas I could analyse, I'm all ears
Dec 17 18:01:47 <Venemo> crashanddie: did you test it from the local network or remotely?
Dec 17 18:01:55 <crashanddie> remotely
Dec 17 18:02:02 <Venemo> hm
Dec 17 18:02:12 <Venemo> then my idea is not good
Dec 17 18:02:22 <crashanddie> I had 10 calls go through the PSTN network, 20 going through VoIP, 10 of those through different ISPs
Dec 17 18:02:31 <Venemo> (I thought it may be caused by networking equipment... routers etc)
Dec 17 18:03:15 <crashanddie> Venemo, I'm still not ruling that one out
Dec 17 18:03:30 <crashanddie> Venemo, we have "audiocodes", machines that get calls from the PSTN network, and translate it to SIP
Dec 17 18:03:39 <crashanddie> it could be coming from those
Dec 17 18:03:46 <Venemo> mhm
Dec 17 18:03:48 <Venemo> interesting
Dec 17 18:04:22 <Venemo> are you sure that you gave the test machine as much traffic as the server gets when they're reporting the issues?
Dec 17 18:04:28 <alterego> Should probably make dinner in a bit, my gf is at a work do tonight so I'm gonna watch Inception and do some hacking :)
Dec 17 18:04:42 <Venemo> hehe
Dec 17 18:05:13 <Venemo> do you trust your gf this much?
Dec 17 18:05:22 <alterego> To do what?
Dec 17 18:05:42 <Venemo> who knows what could happen with her while she 'works' this late
Dec 17 18:06:09 <alterego> work christmas party :P
Dec 17 18:06:15 <Venemo> haha
Dec 17 18:06:15 <crashanddie> Venemo, not really, the problem is the issue is random -- some of our servers have 600 simultaneous calls and have issues, whereas others (exact replica of hardware, same network, same software) handle 2000 simultaneous calls and have no issues whatsoever
Dec 17 18:06:23 <alterego> She's with a load of boring dentist types, what culd possibly happen?! :)
Dec 17 18:06:33 <Venemo> alterego: okay :P
Dec 17 18:06:34 <crashanddie> alterego, "oral exam"?
Dec 17 18:06:40 <alterego> Heh
Dec 17 18:06:41 <alterego> :)
Dec 17 18:06:47 <Venemo> crashanddie: sounds like a networking issue to me
Dec 17 18:07:17 <Venemo> crashanddie: as if a router, or a switch, or a simple network cable was the problem
Dec 17 18:07:52 <Venemo> crashanddie: the other possibility is that the issue is caused on the client side software
Dec 17 18:08:11 <crashanddie> it all goes over PSTN basically
Dec 17 18:08:21 <crashanddie> well, 90% of the calls do
Dec 17 18:09:32 <alterego> vm installed, not to install all the dev crap I need, mysql, ruby, ruby on rails blah blah
Dec 17 18:09:34 <Venemo> alterego: I'll also promote my app to -testing, and you're at my debt at voting on it :P
Dec 17 18:09:46 <crashanddie> alterego, what are you installing?
Dec 17 18:10:34 <alterego> debian + ruby on rails into a VM so I can develop this site for a contract I've got, then I should be easily able to upload it to my production server when its' finished/testable.
Dec 17 18:13:45 <lardman> hmm, 14.8Mb worth of package lists
Dec 17 18:14:47 <Venemo> crashanddie: well then I'm out of ideas
Dec 17 18:15:07 <Venemo> crashanddie: maybe a colleague of yours forgets to turn off his torrent client when he goes to the VPN
Dec 17 18:15:14 <Venemo> crashanddie: (happened where I worked)
Dec 17 18:16:05 <lardman> hmm, so where's the arm version of valgrind to be found?
Dec 17 18:16:24 <crashanddie> lardman, it doesn't exist
Dec 17 18:16:37 <lardman> I thought it had been patched to work
Dec 17 18:16:38 <lardman> ?
Dec 17 18:16:48 <crashanddie> I'd like to see that
Dec 17 18:16:56 <lardman> me too
Dec 17 18:16:57 <crashanddie> considering that valgrind doesn't even work on OSX
Dec 17 18:18:30 <lcuk> lardman, crashanddie http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65335
Dec 17 18:18:51 <alterego> nyurgh
Dec 17 18:19:09 <crashanddie> well fuck me
Dec 17 18:19:12 <crashanddie> lcuk, nice
Dec 17 18:20:04 <lcuk> tmo: useful, sometimes.
Dec 17 18:20:35 <lardman> no-one has actually packaged it for fremantle though
Dec 17 18:25:59 <lardman> lol, even the flashing "there;s upgrades pending" icon in the systray can't manage to keep temp with apt running installing something
Dec 17 18:33:10 <lardman> is it common to loose printf's if you output them just before a segfault occurs?
Dec 17 18:36:21 <alterego> Yeah
Dec 17 18:36:37 <alterego> You can flush though, also make sure you have a newline at the end of your output
Dec 17 18:36:56 <lardman> newline flushes, or do I need to call something?
Dec 17 18:37:30 <lardman> hmm actually these are qDebug outputs so might be different anyway
Dec 17 18:38:55 <toggles> lardman: it's common, newline doesn't always flush, use: printf("xxx\n");fflush(0);
Dec 17 18:39:22 <toggles> substitute qdebug for printf if you like, make sure there is a \n or it probably wont come out
Dec 17 18:40:08 <lardman> qDebug << blah << flush; apparently, we'll see
Dec 17 18:40:52 <toggles> rock on
Dec 17 18:41:09 <lardman> well segfault on in my case ;)
Dec 17 18:41:26 <toggles> core on!
Dec 17 18:41:56 <lardman> hmm, that didn't seem to work
Dec 17 18:42:17 <lardman> or perhaps it did, must add some more lines
Dec 17 18:42:30 <toggles> fflush(0); // flushes every fiel handle
Dec 17 18:42:42 <lardman> ok
Dec 17 18:47:46 <spiritd> where can i manualy edit repositories?
Dec 17 18:48:09 <Venemo> spiritd: /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.ld/
Dec 17 18:48:21 <Venemo> spiritd: sorry, the latter is /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
Dec 17 18:49:13 <spiritd> Venemo once i edited /etc/apt/sources.list.ld/ ... than ran app manager... and file was overwritten by app
Dec 17 18:51:38 <ioan> I have a problem with App Manager, it fails to update Ovi and Nokia repositories. Is this just on my N900 or you guys have this problem too?
Dec 17 18:52:30 <spiritd> ioan what your firmware?
Dec 17 18:52:41 <ioan> latest
Dec 17 18:53:03 <spiritd> i have new N900 and had first one... same problem... but i updated to PR1.3 and np
Dec 17 18:53:29 <ioan> I have pr1.3, and the update worked fine until yesterday
Dec 17 18:57:49 <lardman> hmm, my fprintfs + fflush don't generate anything in the fn that gdb reckons was causing my segfault, is that again a common occurrance?
Dec 17 18:59:00 <toggles> if you corrupt the stack...
Dec 17 18:59:48 <lardman> hmm, ok
Dec 17 18:59:49 <toggles> do you have any idea where it might be happening?
Dec 17 19:00:15 <lardman> well gdb points to a function call into the Qt libraries
Dec 17 19:00:22 <lardman> and I know where that is called
Dec 17 19:00:38 <toggles> you put a printf();fflush(0); before it?
Dec 17 19:00:54 <toggles> can you run it under gdb and breakpoint there?
Dec 17 19:01:56 <lardman> hmm, am half asleep was writing to file, let me check that
Dec 17 19:02:01 <lardman> fprintf
Dec 17 19:04:12 <lardman> ok, so I get some output now, thanks toggles
Dec 17 19:04:51 <lardman> I think this might stem back to my trying to sort a list of objects
Dec 17 19:05:01 <lardman> the objects being in a QList
Dec 17 19:05:10 <lardman> and my implementing an operator< for the object in question
Dec 17 19:05:34 <ioan> ok, my /etc/apt/sources.list is empty. isn't that the file that should have all the repositories?
Dec 17 19:07:28 <lardman> is there a /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ ?
Dec 17 19:08:45 <ioan> yes, but if I try to vi, I get "sources.list.d not a regular file"
Dec 17 19:09:01 <lardman> yeah it's a dir
Dec 17 19:09:04 <lardman> see what's in it
Dec 17 19:09:08 <ioan> ok
Dec 17 19:10:24 <ioan> hildon-application-manager.list, with the repositories that I use inside
Dec 17 19:11:26 <spiritd> ye
Dec 17 19:11:28 <lardman> it may be the repos are down
Dec 17 19:11:37 <ioan> hold on. the app manager update just started working :-)
Dec 17 19:11:53 <spiritd> can you post here default web repositories for PR1.3?
Dec 17 19:12:27 <ioan> http://pastebin.com/3KBQwFTY
Dec 17 19:12:40 <ioan> spiritd: http://pastebin.com/3KBQwFTY
Dec 17 19:13:36 <spiritd> well what the difference between "fremantle-1.3" "fremantle"
Dec 17 19:14:02 <ioan> I have no idea
Dec 17 19:14:04 <ioan> :-)
Dec 17 19:14:39 <MohammadAG> it's just a symlink
Dec 17 19:14:49 <MohammadAG> they're same
Dec 17 19:14:58 <MohammadAG> don't change everything to -1.3
Dec 17 19:15:43 <spiritd> i did :D
Dec 17 19:16:51 <spiritd> deb https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./
Dec 17 19:16:51 <spiritd> deb https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0 ./
Dec 17 19:16:51 <spiritd> deb https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle1.2/ovi/ ./
Dec 17 19:16:51 <spiritd> deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle free non-free
Dec 17 19:16:51 <spiritd> deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free non-free
Dec 17 19:16:52 <spiritd> deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/ fremantle free non-free
Dec 17 19:17:17 <spiritd> so "fremantle-1.3" ---> "fremantle" ... right?
Dec 17 19:17:46 <MohammadAG> 1.3 -> fremantle-1.2 I think
Dec 17 19:18:28 <spiritd> MohammadAG ... can you post yours list?
Dec 17 19:18:45 <MohammadAG> deb https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle1.2/ovi/ ./
Dec 17 19:18:48 <MohammadAG> deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle-1.3 free non-free
Dec 17 19:18:52 <MohammadAG> the rest are the same
Dec 17 19:21:04 <spiritd> is there some documentaion regarding to this? reporistories? default setup, used files
Dec 17 19:21:07 <spiritd> etc ?
Dec 17 19:21:44 <pupnik> is it true that 1.3 uses more battery?
Dec 17 19:22:13 <lardman> not imho
Dec 17 19:22:38 <spiritd> pupnik we can test it... what firmware you have?
Dec 17 19:22:52 <MohammadAG> it does rape the battery while charging though
Dec 17 19:23:05 * MohammadAG suggests kernel-power
Dec 17 19:23:09 <lardman> you need to flash a different kernel
Dec 17 19:23:10 <lardman> yeah
Dec 17 19:23:35 <lardman> I'm surprised we've not had an immediate update to fix that.....
Dec 17 19:23:35 <pupnik> it was just random chatter spiritd ... not based on any intelligent analysis
Dec 17 19:23:57 <spiritd> :)
Dec 17 19:42:57 <spiritd> so i edited hildon-application-manager.list ... but app manager overwrited that
Dec 17 19:47:33 <RST38h> Sooo, anything exciting?
Dec 17 19:52:53 <spiritd> how the fck it works
Dec 17 19:53:35 <MohammadAG> some other configuration file
Dec 17 19:53:37 <MohammadAG> forgot where it is
Dec 17 19:53:57 <MohammadAG> string hildon-application-manager-config
Dec 17 19:59:03 <lardman> any OO gurus about?
Dec 17 19:59:20 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: when did we ever have immediate fixes to any core components?
Dec 17 19:59:46 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: well yeah, but this is pretty fundamental, one can but hope
Dec 17 19:59:55 <lardman> or rather could but have hoped
Dec 17 20:00:40 <spiritd> MohammadAG is there some process tracing application? i d like to know which file application access
Dec 17 20:00:56 <MohammadAG> strace
Dec 17 20:01:15 <MohammadAG> just string it, the directory is probably hardcoded, like mce xD
Dec 17 20:01:25 <DocScrutinizer> well, that's been an evergreen topic with Nokia, to them change their release policy
Dec 17 20:02:38 <lardman> can a class inheriting from another access public members? I assume so
Dec 17 20:02:53 <ShadowJK> lardman, I use fprintf(stderr, "blah") for debugging.. stderr is less buffered by default :)
Dec 17 20:03:11 <lardman> ShadowJK: good call
Dec 17 20:03:31 <lardman> though I think I've now narrowed it down and am trying to work out what I've done to break things
Dec 17 20:04:01 <lardman> adding public members to a class that is otherwise virtual is top of my heap
Dec 17 20:05:42 <DocScrutinizer> btw 6d 14h uptime with xchat running is quite nice for that N810 that constantly rebooted before I swapped the batery
Dec 17 20:06:08 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: ^^
Dec 17 20:08:51 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: talking about batery and contacts - lead and tin should wipe away easily with something like e.g. HCl, while gold never will
Dec 17 20:09:40 * DocScrutinizer curses "t" key for not accepting double-hits
Dec 17 20:11:36 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: In practice, it just worked when I squeezed the batery contacts together
Dec 17 20:12:19 <DocScrutinizer> eeeek it's contagious
Dec 17 20:12:36 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
Dec 17 20:13:35 * DocScrutinizer treats his "t" key with hard radiation and ethanol
Dec 17 20:15:52 <DocScrutinizer> not any beter, but at least I can find the key in the dark now :-P
Dec 17 20:17:01 <jaska> waste of ethanol!
Dec 17 20:17:23 <alterego> I'd forgotten how cool rails is to use :)
Dec 17 20:19:42 * MohammadAG stabs DocScrutinizer's "t"
Dec 17 20:20:08 <spiritd> MohammadAG strace, string... dont have these commands in n900?
Dec 17 20:20:11 <spiritd> ...
Dec 17 20:20:13 <alterego> Still not voted DocScrutinizer ?
Dec 17 20:20:13 <spiritd> no ?
Dec 17 20:20:16 <spiritd> not ?
Dec 17 20:20:38 <MohammadAG> spiritd, binutils for strings, strace is in the tools repo
Dec 17 20:21:29 <spiritd> MohammadAG is there some n900 emulation software for PC?
Dec 17 20:21:55 <MohammadAG> ~maemosdk
Dec 17 20:21:55 <infobot> methinks maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation
Dec 17 20:26:57 <ioan> what's the name of that application that takes a picture and then translates the text?
Dec 17 20:29:01 <xnt14> ioan: phototranslator
Dec 17 20:29:20 <ioan> xnt14: thanks
Dec 17 20:29:29 <xnt14> ioan: no problem
Dec 17 20:32:32 <DocScrutinizer> duh, I wonder where I missed that. Had it "in a former life"
Dec 17 20:37:18 <alterego> nyurgh, -5 degrees now :/
Dec 17 20:39:06 <myu> lol
Dec 17 20:39:22 <MohammadAG> alterego, damn you111!!!1
Dec 17 20:39:29 * MohammadAG wants cold weather too
Dec 17 20:39:35 <alterego> pfft
Dec 17 20:39:42 <alterego> If you enjoy black death ice :P
Dec 17 20:40:08 <alterego> Oh bawlz
Dec 17 20:40:25 <alterego> datetime field doesn't have usec precision
Dec 17 20:42:27 <MohammadAG> time for a custom widget!
Dec 17 20:43:00 <MohammadAG> alterego, when you told me about the lists like ones in the mediaplayer, did you say inherit, or make a whole new custom one?
Dec 17 20:44:08 <alterego> I said, you need to create a new delegate :P
Dec 17 20:44:24 <alterego> You should the normal QListView thingy
Dec 17 20:44:29 <alterego> ~use ..
Dec 17 20:46:30 <MohammadAG> what's a delegate o_O
Dec 17 20:47:21 <Venemo> MohammadAG: it is a programming concept
Dec 17 20:47:47 <backwards_> is this a good place to ask noobie questions?
Dec 17 20:47:55 <MohammadAG> alterego, I'm already using a QListItemWidget
Dec 17 20:47:59 <Venemo> backwards_: it is
Dec 17 20:48:02 <Venemo> MohammadAG:  see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delegates_%28programming%29
Dec 17 20:48:22 <MohammadAG> QListWidget even
Dec 17 20:49:12 <backwards_> I put some package on my n900 and I should do "cd /home/.." in terminal. But it says "can't cd to /home/..."
Dec 17 20:49:21 <backwards_> what am I doing wrong
Dec 17 20:49:44 <pupnik> cd /home
Dec 17 20:49:47 <MohammadAG> Probably mistyped a character, and note that unix is case sensitive
Dec 17 20:49:55 <pupnik> cd /home/user
Dec 17 20:49:57 <MohammadAG> pupnik, I think he means /home/rest/of/path
Dec 17 20:50:15 <backwards_> it was "cd /home/user/packages"
Dec 17 20:50:33 <MohammadAG> does /home/user/packages exist?
Dec 17 20:50:55 <pupnik> ls /home/user
Dec 17 20:50:56 <backwards_> yes, I think so
Dec 17 20:51:22 <backwards_> I put the folder "user" in the top folder in my n900
Dec 17 20:51:33 <backwards_> then that is /home/user right?
Dec 17 20:51:45 <pupnik> calling it a folder shows us you are dangerous
Dec 17 20:52:08 <backwards_> how come?
Dec 17 20:52:17 <pupnik> because in unix it's called a directory
Dec 17 20:52:28 <backwards_> sorry :/ got much to learn
Dec 17 20:52:58 <pupnik> yes some basics about the linux/unix/maemo filesystem would help
Dec 17 20:53:12 <pupnik> it's a "tree" structure
Dec 17 20:53:22 <pupnik> the top is called "root" and referenced with "/"
Dec 17 20:53:38 <pupnik> in the root directory there's a directory called "home"
Dec 17 20:53:47 <pupnik> in the home directory there's a directory called "user"
Dec 17 20:54:05 <MohammadAG> and in that, there's MyDocs
Dec 17 20:54:06 <pupnik> you don't want to be putting things in "home" or "/"
Dec 17 20:54:15 <MohammadAG> the "root" exposed over USB
Dec 17 20:54:23 <pupnik> ahh MohammadAG is good
Dec 17 20:54:34 <MohammadAG> so you probably put it in /home/user/MyDocs/home/user
Dec 17 20:54:48 <pupnik> or /home/user/MyDocs/user
Dec 17 20:54:55 <backwards_> I didn't see home
Dec 17 20:54:56 <MohammadAG> indee
Dec 17 20:54:59 <MohammadAG> d
Dec 17 20:55:12 <MohammadAG> it isn't exported over USB
Dec 17 20:55:23 <backwards_> just asumed the top directory where all is placed was home
Dec 17 20:55:27 <MohammadAG> use ssh or moved it
Dec 17 20:55:31 <MohammadAG> move*
Dec 17 20:55:42 <MohammadAG> or use filebox (BE CAREFUL!!)
Dec 17 20:56:31 <backwards_> but then how do I move it to home?
Dec 17 20:56:42 <backwards_> or how do I make home visable?
Dec 17 20:56:44 <MohammadAG> mv somedir /home/
Dec 17 20:56:49 <MohammadAG> terminal
Dec 17 20:57:00 <MohammadAG> you can't make it visiable over UsB
Dec 17 20:57:03 <MohammadAG> USB*
Dec 17 20:57:12 <backwards_> but even on phone it's not visable now
Dec 17 20:57:23 <spiritd> http://www.doxit.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/linux_file_structure.jpg
Dec 17 20:57:24 <MohammadAG> yes
Dec 17 20:57:28 <MohammadAG> night anyways
Dec 17 20:58:33 <Sicelo> backwards_: you still have your N900 connected to USB, perhaps?
Dec 17 20:58:50 <backwards_> no
Dec 17 20:58:56 <backwards_> to charger tho
Dec 17 20:59:56 <backwards_> top directory is Nokia N900/
Dec 17 21:00:22 <backwards_> should there be home under "Nokia N900/" ?
Dec 17 21:00:55 <spiritd> no top i /
Dec 17 21:00:57 <spiritd> is
Dec 17 21:01:07 <andre__> no. you end in MyDocs listed as top
Dec 17 21:02:00 <spiritd> thats nice on this "phone" you can go lower if you want
Dec 17 21:02:19 <backwards_> I don't even see MyDocs anywhere
Dec 17 21:02:35 <spiritd> install filebox
Dec 17 21:03:07 <andre__> backwards_, it is mounted as / on your PC computer
Dec 17 21:03:10 <Venemo> backwards_: what do you want to achieve exactly?
Dec 17 21:03:16 <spiritd> http://www.doxit.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/linux_file_structure.jpg ... N900 is /home/user/MyDocs
Dec 17 21:03:45 <spiritd> "Nokia N900/" is /home/user/MyDocs  ------fixed
Dec 17 21:04:26 <backwards_> well, I wanted to install something and it told me to put it from my pc on to /home/úser/mypackages
Dec 17 21:05:19 <backwards_> I thought I had to put /user/mypackages under Nokia N900/ But then "cd /home/user/mypackages" doesn't work
Dec 17 21:05:32 <andre__> and "something" is...?
Dec 17 21:05:50 <Sicelo> backwards_: you will find this helpful... http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_filesystem
Dec 17 21:05:51 <backwards_> Bluetooth BPAP
Dec 17 21:06:12 <spiritd> Sicelo nice link --- look at that backwards_
Dec 17 21:06:24 <andre__> backwards_, where are the instructions that you want to follow?
Dec 17 21:07:12 <backwards_> here http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PBAP#Installation_Guide
Dec 17 21:07:28 <backwards_> But I guess I understand a big part more already
Dec 17 21:08:02 <backwards_> didn't know I was already in /home/user so I made a new directory called user in there
Dec 17 21:08:21 <andre__> actually you are in /home/user/MyDocs probably
Dec 17 21:08:33 <andre__> if you use the X terminal, "pwd" tells you which directory you are in
Dec 17 21:09:34 <backwards_> pwd tells /home/user
Dec 17 21:09:41 <andre__> ah, ok
Dec 17 21:09:59 <alterego> Times like this I wished I finished my semantic web framework
Dec 17 21:10:51 <alterego> Need moar metadata ..
Dec 17 21:11:13 <Sicelo> backwards_: i dont have N900 myself, but it looks like the instruction was just making an example with that directory. you can use your own, as long as you run the dpkg... command while in the same folder
Dec 17 21:17:56 <Sicelo> i notice now that the wiki page backwards_ refers to also uses the 'dangerous' name for a directory, folder :D
Dec 17 21:20:10 <rhkfin> Anyone know why I can find & install apps from command line (apt-get install..) but for example fapman cannot find the same packages..
Dec 17 21:21:17 <backwards_> they give me a bad example..
Dec 17 21:21:19 <backwards_> but thanks
Dec 17 21:21:25 <backwards_> I think I made it now!
Dec 17 21:21:36 <andre__> rhkfin, h-a-m only lists user category packages, not libraries. don't know about fapman
Dec 17 21:22:31 <nox-> moin
Dec 17 21:25:28 <rhkfin> anre__ (even though he's gone...) another user was able to see some apps with his fapman I didn't
Dec 17 21:33:27 <rhkfin> Is it normal/OK that I have 'distribution' in the package repositories fremantle-1.3 instead of fremantle?
Dec 17 21:33:59 <rhkfin> Only in extras, not in extras-devel and extras-testing
Dec 17 21:35:13 <ioan> linux cheat sheet: http://i.imgur.com/CJkR9.png
Dec 17 21:35:59 <GAN900> Anybody tried OnLive yet?
Dec 17 21:37:49 <rhkfin> Does this look familiar: deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle-1.3 free non-free
Dec 17 21:38:05 <rhkfin> Is fremantle-1.3 OK or should it be only fremantle?
Dec 17 21:38:52 <rhkfin> My list of repositories: http://pastebin.com/iqSB4N95
Dec 17 21:44:18 <DocScrutinizer> heh, to me it seems backwards_ was another good example how great Nokia
Dec 17 21:44:25 <DocScrutinizer> 's rationale worked
Dec 17 21:44:52 <DocScrutinizer> to make it ''simple'' for windoze users and hide the true directory structure
Dec 17 21:46:48 <DocScrutinizer> and then even call it "Nokia N900" instead of maybe something as confusing  as for example "/home/user/MyDocs/ (N900 user data)"
Dec 17 21:48:26 <toggles> can you run it under gdb and breakpoint there?
Dec 17 21:48:37 <DocScrutinizer> I bet Nokia's usability tests on those 5000 average users have revealed they all would run a way screaming and scared to death, if there were a little hint in HFM about the true nature and location of the "root" MyDir :-P
Dec 17 21:50:20 <alterego> Well, I wasn't expecting her to be gone this long ..
Dec 17 21:50:56 <Venemo> alterego: warned you
Dec 17 21:51:01 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: agreed
Dec 17 21:51:03 <alterego> :)
Dec 17 21:51:10 <Venemo> toggles: what are you referring to?
Dec 17 21:51:26 <toggles> Venemo: miss type, sorry
Dec 17 21:51:48 <Venemo> alterego: at least she is all yours now
Dec 17 21:53:01 <alterego> Nope, she's still not back :P
Dec 17 21:54:27 <Venemo> alterego: time to start being suspicious... :P
Dec 17 21:55:25 <alterego> It's a refreshing break :)
Dec 17 21:55:34 <alterego> I've got quite a bit done whilst she's been out ^.^
Dec 17 21:56:50 <alterego> Hrm, need to write a little script that can generate some random user accounts for me,.
Dec 17 22:01:53 <iluminator101> i am surprised i cant play MP3 audio (audio/mpeg) in n900 why???
Dec 17 22:02:23 * ShadowJK can
Dec 17 22:03:08 <DocScrutinizer> iluminator101: yeah why? tell us! what's the problem?
Dec 17 22:03:50 <Venemo> iluminator101: you should be able to.
Dec 17 22:03:55 <iluminator101> i am trying to listen to mp3 (audio/mpeg) it says its unsupported but it plays other mp3 not this one
Dec 17 22:04:32 <DocScrutinizer> what's the meaning of "mp3 (audio/mpeg)"?
Dec 17 22:04:51 <DocScrutinizer> or... what's the actual name of the file?
Dec 17 22:05:09 <DocScrutinizer> how do you try to playback it?
Dec 17 22:06:20 <iluminator101> media player says audio codec unsupported??/
Dec 17 22:06:31 <DocScrutinizer> (/me recalls this secretary that, when asked how she converted these *.doc to *.pdf, answered "well, I renamed them" :-P)
Dec 17 22:07:12 <iluminator101> how do i find out what exactly this file is
Dec 17 22:07:22 <Sicelo> DocScrutinizer: :P :D
Dec 17 22:07:34 <crashanddie_> DocScrutinizer: I had a screenshot of a PDF pasted in a word document, because word had the "Email to" option
Dec 17 22:07:34 <DocScrutinizer> no idea, send a big thanks letter to Nokia
Dec 17 22:07:56 <iluminator101> thanks for being helpful
Dec 17 22:08:26 <DocScrutinizer> iluminator101: don't start bitching, it's not our fault
Dec 17 22:09:00 <DocScrutinizer> if you know the song's name, you might find a file *somewhere* on your storage with a somewhat similar name
Dec 17 22:09:05 <Sicelo> illuminator101: in command line, type /file your_file.mp3/
Dec 17 22:09:38 <DocScrutinizer> Sicelo: he doesn't know where your_file.mp3 is and what's the name
Dec 17 22:09:46 <iluminator101> if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem
Dec 17 22:10:22 <DocScrutinizer> iluminator101: you start to be part of the bitching crowd of lemmings
Dec 17 22:12:59 <Venemo> iluminator101: can you play this file on your desktop?
Dec 17 22:13:18 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: : he doesn't know where your_file.mp3 is and what's the name
Dec 17 22:13:27 <iluminator101> venemo on vlc i can
Dec 17 22:13:57 <Venemo> iluminator101: try to open that file with some converter then and convert it to regular mp3
Dec 17 22:14:12 <Venemo> iluminator101: I've got no other ideas
Dec 17 22:14:32 <iluminator101> thanks Venemo
Dec 17 22:15:05 <DocScrutinizer> or, if he knows (he must know to playback with vlc) then he refuses to answer my questions, and that clearly disqualifies him, if the bitching didn't already
Dec 17 22:15:58 <DocScrutinizer> actually Sicelo's answer was the best one, but it's a timesink to try and help unresponsive lusers
Dec 17 22:17:02 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: do you feel like testing a little app?
Dec 17 22:17:10 <DocScrutinizer> depends
Dec 17 22:17:36 <DocScrutinizer> just feel pissed about phototranslator's abyssmal "take photo" function
Dec 17 22:17:54 <Venemo> it is a puzzle game
Dec 17 22:17:56 <DocScrutinizer> so something "better" might be welcome, if it runs on 1.2
Dec 17 22:18:30 <Venemo> should work on 1.2, but you might have to compile it for yourself
Dec 17 22:19:14 <DocScrutinizer> nah, can't be arsed to do that now
Dec 17 22:19:30 <Venemo> I can give you a .deb, it should work
Dec 17 22:19:38 <DocScrutinizer> sure, go ahead
Dec 17 22:19:42 <Venemo> it doesn't need anything that's not in 1.2
Dec 17 22:20:09 <DocScrutinizer> paste the URL, so I can click it :-D
Dec 17 22:20:27 <Venemo> moment
Dec 17 22:21:29 * Skald is away: Gone away for now
Dec 17 22:21:33 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: http://cid-a5ea1bc43dff384c.office.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public?uc=1 (couldn't find a better place)
Dec 17 22:21:40 <DocScrutinizer> np
Dec 17 22:21:56 <pupnik> well looks like the TSA is now in Canada
Dec 17 22:22:03 <pupnik> < Sketch> i just went to the airport in canada a couple of weeks ago with one of those screwdriver bit set (in pieces) and they wouldn't let me keep it.
Dec 17 22:22:12 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: it hides the extension (idiotic MS crap), but the _1.0.0_armel one is the .deb
Dec 17 22:22:37 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: there's also a .tar.gz
Dec 17 22:22:52 <DocScrutinizer> http://cid-a5ea1bc43dff384c.office.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/puzzle-master^_1.0.0^_armel.deb
Dec 17 22:22:55 <DocScrutinizer> MEH
Dec 17 22:23:22 <Venemo> yes, that's it
Dec 17 22:23:37 <DocScrutinizer> DAMN!
Dec 17 22:24:06 <DocScrutinizer> still I get "ERROR\nWindows Live SkyDrive"
Dec 17 22:24:17 <Venemo> crap
Dec 17 22:24:33 <Venemo> ok, wait a minute
Dec 17 22:24:39 <DocScrutinizer> couldn't you name it a bit saner, maybe without ^
Dec 17 22:24:45 <DocScrutinizer> might help
Dec 17 22:24:49 <Venemo> it doesn't have ^
Dec 17 22:25:31 <DocScrutinizer> actually, so where came that from in my c&p??
Dec 17 22:25:35 <DocScrutinizer> :-o
Dec 17 22:25:46 * Skald is back.
Dec 17 22:25:47 <Venemo> dunno, probably MS made it crap
Dec 17 22:26:04 <DocScrutinizer> http://cid-a5ea1bc43dff384c.office.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/puzzle-master_1.0.0_armel.deb
Dec 17 22:26:49 <DocScrutinizer> *sigh*, seems I need to use wget and dl it... :-S
Dec 17 22:27:18 <DocScrutinizer> no idea which mimetype it has
Dec 17 22:27:32 <Venemo> trying to uplad it to FTP, but it seems that doesn't work right now :S
Dec 17 22:28:37 <DocScrutinizer> 60k "text/html" ?
Dec 17 22:29:19 <DocScrutinizer> I bet that's a crappy download-page link, not a proper URL pointing to the file
Dec 17 22:29:27 <Venemo> you're right
Dec 17 22:29:29 <Venemo> ah
Dec 17 22:29:38 <Venemo> my web host changed its name servers and none of the domains there have been directed to the new ones
Dec 17 22:30:05 <DocScrutinizer> http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pcs4__rc4QikVKtL9Vq-KjnN8CXTasiHYSXUKr1KpieLdDrxErcBM4IApLPH3V8Hs58xaucKe1bM-PHxTpJhD6g/puzzle-master_1.0.0_armel.deb?download&psid=1
Dec 17 22:30:16 <DocScrutinizer> GRRR
Dec 17 22:30:27 <Venemo> why don't you just click on the dl link in the browser and dl it?
Dec 17 22:30:58 <DocScrutinizer> just because it's easier to click THAT^^^ link
Dec 17 22:31:25 <DocScrutinizer> forget it
Dec 17 22:31:51 <Venemo> heh
Dec 17 22:31:54 <Venemo> did you succeed?
Dec 17 22:31:55 <DocScrutinizer> installation not possible: missing: libqt4-*foo*bar
Dec 17 22:32:07 <Venemo> what is foo and bar?
Dec 17 22:32:18 <DocScrutinizer> also libqtm-sensors
Dec 17 22:32:49 <DocScrutinizer> foo=core|dbus|gui|maemo5|xml
Dec 17 22:32:58 <Venemo> you don't have any of libqt4?
Dec 17 22:33:06 <DocScrutinizer> PR1.2
Dec 17 22:33:09 <Venemo> nah
Dec 17 22:33:11 <Venemo> you should have them
Dec 17 22:33:16 <Venemo> just 4.6
Dec 17 22:33:18 <DocScrutinizer> uhuh
Dec 17 22:33:26 <Venemo> which is binary compatible with 4.7...
Dec 17 22:33:28 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Dec 17 22:33:48 <DocScrutinizer> but you're rdepending on >=4.7.0-git735737834875147852346366046745
Dec 17 22:33:58 <Venemo> okay
Dec 17 22:34:17 <Venemo> I'll make you a version that depends on 4.6
Dec 17 22:34:38 <Venemo> but it'll be less fun without libqtm-sensors
Dec 17 22:34:48 <Venemo> why don't you upgrade to 1.3?
Dec 17 22:34:58 <DocScrutinizer> because
Dec 17 22:35:12 <DocScrutinizer> there's no way back
Dec 17 22:35:28 <Venemo> and?
Dec 17 22:35:59 <DocScrutinizer> and? if anything I *need* doesn't work anymore as expected under 1.3 then I'm screwed
Dec 17 22:36:27 <DocScrutinizer> otoh 1.3 has nothing I *need* right now
Dec 17 22:36:35 <Venemo> mkay, no worries
Dec 17 22:37:59 <Venemo> hm.
Dec 17 22:38:24 <Venemo> the DNS of my domain is directed to the new name servers, but still I get a "not found" when I try to access it from a browser
Dec 17 22:38:51 <SpeedEvil> you have to wait for it to proagate
Dec 17 22:38:54 <SpeedEvil> rop
Dec 17 22:39:03 <iluminator101> venemo this is the file type  Audio file with ID3 version 2.3.0, contains: RAR archive data, v14, os: Win32
Dec 17 22:39:18 <Venemo> RAR archive data? interesting
Dec 17 22:39:43 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: but I can ping it
Dec 17 22:40:01 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: pinging it goes to the correct IP
Dec 17 22:40:02 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: url?
Dec 17 22:40:11 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: http://venemo.net
Dec 17 22:40:26 <SpeedEvil> I get a IIS 404
Dec 17 22:40:31 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: it gives a generic IIS 404, yes
Dec 17 22:40:35 <DocScrutinizer> RAR isn't mp3 though, is it?
Dec 17 22:40:40 <iluminator101> its an mp3 but more details says  Audio file with ID3 version 2.3.0, contains: RAR archive data, v14, os: Win32
Dec 17 22:40:42 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: meaning the hosting guy screwed something up
Dec 17 22:40:52 <SpeedEvil> so there is a webserver at that address, which doesn't know it's supposed to be serving for that name
Dec 17 22:40:59 <SpeedEvil> I think
Dec 17 22:41:14 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: yeah, but I added the domain to the control panel, so it whould work...
Dec 17 22:41:33 <DocScrutinizer> if it were a true mp3 (not sth somebody renamed to .mp3) then it would be playable
Dec 17 22:43:02 <DocScrutinizer> iluminator101: there's a package codecs-extra or similar, in any of the repositories
Dec 17 22:43:40 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: btw what do you use on 1.2 that you're not sure if it works on 1.3?
Dec 17 22:43:42 <DocScrutinizer> you could install and try to playback, it might know how to deal with that format
Dec 17 22:44:07 <iluminator101> DocScrutinizer, I have that
Dec 17 22:44:36 <DocScrutinizer> quite some bits. e.g. the fix for NK-enter vs proper <CR>, in xterm
Dec 17 22:45:25 <DocScrutinizer> iluminator101: it's some weird file format, not really a *.mp3
Dec 17 22:45:27 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: what does this mean?
Dec 17 22:45:47 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: I mean, NK enter vs <CR> ?
Dec 17 22:46:26 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: this means with that lib installed I can hit the CR button on N900 to fire a less /search
Dec 17 22:46:49 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: by CR you mean the enter button, right?
Dec 17 22:47:12 <DocScrutinizer> and several other cmdline programs that don't really work with this nonsensical NumericKeaypad-Eneter
Dec 17 22:47:48 <DocScrutinizer> yay, Numeric-Keypad-Enter
Dec 17 22:47:49 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: why not simply remap it in the X keymap?
Dec 17 22:48:04 <DocScrutinizer> because that doesn't work
Dec 17 22:48:08 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: :(
Dec 17 22:48:40 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: for my usecase, remapping works fine. I can input all of the Hungarian accented characters with Fn key combos
Dec 17 22:48:57 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: I'm building you a "DocScrutinizer Edition" of the app :P
Dec 17 22:49:25 <DocScrutinizer> but generally speaking I don't bother to look into my crystal ball to tell which app or lib or bugfix will break on pr1.3
Dec 17 22:50:30 <Venemo> understandable
Dec 17 22:52:27 <Venemo> hm
Dec 17 22:52:33 <Venemo> what is the MIME type for .deb?
Dec 17 22:52:49 <PhonicUK> application/x-deb
Dec 17 22:53:20 <Venemo> ookay
Dec 17 22:53:23 <Venemo> Doc, it works now
Dec 17 22:53:32 <PhonicUK> btw hi everyone :)
Dec 17 22:54:00 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: http://venemo.net/puzzle-master_1.0.0_armel.deb
Dec 17 22:54:12 <Venemo> PhonicUK: good evening :)
Dec 17 22:54:36 <PhonicUK> btw while I'm about, can anyone help me with a PR 1.3 problem?
Dec 17 22:54:43 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: I removed the libqtm dependency, plus linked against libqt4 (>=4.6.0)
Dec 17 22:54:49 <PhonicUK> the Wifi is misbehaving, for some reason it can't seem to get an IP address
Dec 17 22:54:56 <PhonicUK> but everything else on the wireless is fine
Dec 17 22:55:03 <Venemo> PhonicUK: isn't it a router-related problem?
Dec 17 22:55:08 <PhonicUK> nope, the router is fine
Dec 17 22:55:21 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: try the link, tell me if it is still misbehaving
Dec 17 22:55:26 <PhonicUK> it hands out an IP to anything else, and before I updated to 1.3 the phone was fine too
Dec 17 22:55:29 <DocScrutinizer> still the same
Dec 17 22:55:35 <PhonicUK> but after i reflashed, it refuses to behave
Dec 17 22:55:38 <DocScrutinizer> >=4.7
Dec 17 22:55:46 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: naaah. no way
Dec 17 22:55:52 <PhonicUK> Android on the same device can connect too
Dec 17 22:55:56 <Venemo> moment
Dec 17 22:56:43 <Venemo> PhonicUK: is this error specific to a wireless, or your N900 fails to receive an IP on any wireless?
Dec 17 22:57:02 <PhonicUK> not sure, not got any other networks to try with
Dec 17 22:57:07 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: please set a marker in packet description, so I can tell it actually uses the downloaded version and not any cached one
Dec 17 22:57:24 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: a marker?
Dec 17 22:57:48 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: no, I screwed it up.
Dec 17 22:57:50 <DocScrutinizer> a short notice, a remark, a typo, whatever
Dec 17 22:58:30 <Venemo> okay
Dec 17 23:00:48 <Venemo> balh
Dec 17 23:00:51 <Venemo> this is shit
Dec 17 23:01:07 <Venemo> I wrote to my control file libqt4-dev (>= 4.6.0)
Dec 17 23:01:08 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, commonly known shit :-D
Dec 17 23:01:19 <Venemo> and if I unpack the .deb, it is 4.7.0.......
Dec 17 23:01:50 <DocScrutinizer> 9 out of 10 apps can't install with these incompatible dependencies now
Dec 17 23:02:02 <Venemo> yes, but why does the build system cheat me?
Dec 17 23:02:10 <DocScrutinizer> no idea
Dec 17 23:03:18 <DocScrutinizer> I seem to remember X-Fade tought me the buildhost tries to always find the lowest compatible version of a dependency. MAybe that's borked. Or the 4.6 version isn't compatible to your source
Dec 17 23:03:33 <Venemo> it is.
Dec 17 23:03:46 <PhonicUK> aha!
Dec 17 23:03:49 <PhonicUK> it was my router being retarded
Dec 17 23:03:53 <DocScrutinizer> also do you actually build on buildhost?
Dec 17 23:04:03 <DocScrutinizer> or locally?
Dec 17 23:04:26 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: nope, I build with madde on wincrap, but if it fails, I'll boot into Linux and try there
Dec 17 23:04:47 * DocScrutinizer doubts the results will differ
Dec 17 23:05:06 <Venemo> scratchbox's dpkg-buildpackage is a bit smarter than madde's
Dec 17 23:05:25 <DocScrutinizer> aah yes, quite possible
Dec 17 23:05:33 <Venemo> isn't there an option in dpkg to skip the dependency check?
Dec 17 23:05:46 <DocScrutinizer> no idea
Dec 17 23:05:54 <DocScrutinizer> I installed via HAM anyway
Dec 17 23:05:55 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i have builder made on same scripts
Dec 17 23:06:13 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: and it's installing using apt and therefore latest version
Dec 17 23:06:16 <jacekowski> Venemo: yes
Dec 17 23:06:24 <jacekowski> Venemo: --force-all
Dec 17 23:06:33 <lardman> bloody segfaults
Dec 17 23:06:40 <lardman> grumble, grumble
Dec 17 23:09:14 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: http://venemo.net/puzzle-master_1.0.0_armel_for_doc.deb try this with dpkg --force-depends or --force-all
Dec 17 23:10:50 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: that way we'll se if they're really binary compatible
Dec 17 23:11:49 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: btw you can install Qt 4.7 on PR 1.2
Dec 17 23:12:11 <MohammadAG> they aren't
Dec 17 23:12:26 <MohammadAG> PSFreedom fails to load on 1.2
Dec 17 23:12:33 <Venemo> hmpfh.
Dec 17 23:12:39 <Venemo> shouldn't you be sleeping?
Dec 17 23:12:47 <MohammadAG> woke up
Dec 17 23:12:52 <Venemo> :(
Dec 17 23:12:59 <MohammadAG> thought it was 6, apparently it's 1
Dec 17 23:13:02 * MohammadAG grumbles
Dec 17 23:13:21 <Venemo> I made a Puzzle Master version specifically for Doc
Dec 17 23:13:37 <MohammadAG> 4.7 binaries don't work on 4.6
Dec 17 23:13:50 <Venemo> removed the qt mobility parts from it and specified >= 4.6.0 in the control file for qt
Dec 17 23:14:12 <Venemo> apparently, my build system cheats and it puts >= 4.7 there regardless
Dec 17 23:14:40 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: if you add the SDK repo on your device, you'll be able to install qt 4.7 from there. don't install anything else from there though.
Dec 17 23:14:45 <MohammadAG> cause the libraries are 4.7.1
Dec 17 23:15:11 <Venemo> MohammadAG: how can I select the 1.2 target in madde?
Dec 17 23:15:33 <MohammadAG> you need to downgrade i tnink
Dec 17 23:15:36 <MohammadAG> think*
Dec 17 23:16:04 <Venemo> gah, the update removed the pr12 target! this is nonsense.
Dec 17 23:16:40 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: does it work with --force?
Dec 17 23:17:23 <MohammadAG> in reality, it expects you upgraded :P
Dec 17 23:17:33 <MohammadAG> the deb deps don't matter
Dec 17 23:17:44 <MohammadAG> it'll say something about failing to load a lib
Dec 17 23:17:59 <Venemo> will madde 0.6.72 build for pr1.2?
Dec 17 23:18:14 <MohammadAG> probably not
Dec 17 23:18:18 <Venemo> why not?
Dec 17 23:18:22 <MohammadAG> do a
Dec 17 23:18:25 <Venemo> it is a quite old version
Dec 17 23:18:32 * lardman feels immense relief at having fixed segfault, even though he doesn't quite understand how or why
Dec 17 23:18:46 <MohammadAG> mad apt-get install libqt4-dev=4.6.2 or whatever the version was
Dec 17 23:19:14 <Venemo> MohammadAG: there's no apt in madde.
Dec 17 23:19:35 * MohammadAG sighs
Dec 17 23:19:38 <GAN900> Why are there no FOSS retail solutions that don't suck. . . .
Dec 17 23:19:52 <Venemo> it would be great if DocScrutinizer would actually tell us what the result was
Dec 17 23:21:59 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer sucks.
Dec 17 23:22:03 <GAN900> Wait, what result?
Dec 17 23:22:31 <Venemo> if he is able to install that package with --force-depends or not
Dec 17 23:22:54 <DocScrutinizer> result: collapse on load game, no tab-expansion in shell on puz<tab> and Puz<tab>, so no further info
Dec 17 23:23:11 <Venemo> thx
Dec 17 23:23:13 <Aranel> MohammadAG: just wanted to say: your mediaplayer replacement looks awesome :) I hope to see it working.
Dec 17 23:23:15 <MohammadAG> LOL back to this
Dec 17 23:23:28 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: well then MohammadAG was right.
Dec 17 23:23:33 <MohammadAG> Aranel, thanks :D
Dec 17 23:23:47 <spiritd> Aranel which one?
Dec 17 23:23:47 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: it is located in /opt/puzzle-master/
Dec 17 23:23:50 <MohammadAG> Venemo, i think he's complaining it's not in $PATH
Dec 17 23:23:55 <spiritd> send me some screenshots :)
Dec 17 23:24:00 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: please read backscroll
Dec 17 23:24:20 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: I read it, interesting
Dec 17 23:24:30 <Aranel> spiritd: that one: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66275&page=10
Dec 17 23:24:51 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: does the /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master binary exist?
Dec 17 23:25:01 <DocScrutinizer> no idea
Dec 17 23:25:16 <Venemo> could you please check it?
Dec 17 23:25:17 <DocScrutinizer> do you need to know?
Dec 17 23:25:23 <Aranel> spiritd: It's open-source and already supports portait mode it seems. Even dreaming about the possibilities makes me happy :)
Dec 17 23:25:31 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: ok, never mind
Dec 17 23:25:59 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# ll /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master
Dec 17 23:26:01 <DocScrutinizer> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 615687 2010-12-18 00:03 /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master
Dec 17 23:26:19 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, what happens when you run that?
Dec 17 23:26:50 <Ken-Young> Does anyone know of a way to export the list of Internet Radio Stations from the Maemo 5 media player as, for example, an ASCII file?
Dec 17 23:26:59 <DocScrutinizer> the same?
Dec 17 23:28:16 <DocScrutinizer> aaaah, you ask me to tell you what results my arsing around with invoking binaries from shell that aren't ever meant to get invoked that way will give? :-P
Dec 17 23:28:25 <Venemo> ok, never mind
Dec 17 23:28:41 <DocScrutinizer> /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master: symbol lookup error: /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master: undefined symbol: _ZN9QListData11detach_growEPii
Dec 17 23:28:53 <Venemo> nice! :D
Dec 17 23:28:54 <MohammadAG> yep
Dec 17 23:29:07 <MohammadAG> that's the error i get/got
Dec 17 23:29:28 <MohammadAG> (when running 4.7 bins with 4.6.2 libs)
Dec 17 23:29:31 <Venemo> so it seems that binaries linked to 4.6 will run on 4.7, but it won't work in the opposite direction
Dec 17 23:30:12 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: I won't do that another time. Include a symlink from /usr/bin/puzzle to /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master
Dec 17 23:30:20 <MohammadAG> it's x86/64 all over again
Dec 17 23:30:23 <MohammadAG> no wait...
Dec 17 23:30:44 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: ok, don't worry. I'll make a binary for you that's linked against 4.6
Dec 17 23:30:58 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, do symlinks take some kbs?
Dec 17 23:31:07 <DocScrutinizer> nonsense
Dec 17 23:31:19 <DocScrutinizer> they take exactly one block
Dec 17 23:31:58 <DocScrutinizer> if your linked path isn't like 700chars
Dec 17 23:32:25 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: so you're saying that I should make a symlink to /usr/bin?
Dec 17 23:32:30 <MohammadAG> luckily I had a shell script for hen :P
Dec 17 23:32:34 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Dec 17 23:32:38 <MohammadAG> otherwise you would've killed me
Dec 17 23:33:10 <SpeedEvil> They don't take one block - they take one directory entry.
Dec 17 23:33:18 <SpeedEvil> err
Dec 17 23:33:28 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: will 'ln -s /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master /usr/bin/' in the postinst do the trick?
Dec 17 23:33:37 * MohammadAG wonders if DocScrutinizer noticed that /usr/bin/hostmode is a shell script and not a symlink
Dec 17 23:33:38 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: one inode, no?
Dec 17 23:33:41 <MohammadAG> yes Venemo
Dec 17 23:33:51 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: I noticed that
Dec 17 23:34:10 <SpeedEvil> I realised as I wrote that that I don't actually know if they're stored in the directory inode
Dec 17 23:34:30 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: I even watched when it got suggested to do it that way
Dec 17 23:34:31 <jacekowski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut1kGmOhzWQ
Dec 17 23:34:47 <SpeedEvil> I thought they took up space in df -i - but not in df
Dec 17 23:35:05 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, aren't symlinks better?
Dec 17 23:35:12 <DocScrutinizer> depends
Dec 17 23:35:42 <DocScrutinizer> don't ask me on what. Maybe on your mod on day of creation
Dec 17 23:35:48 <DocScrutinizer> mood
Dec 17 23:36:20 <MohammadAG> heh
Dec 17 23:36:42 <SpeedEvil> yeah - ln -s jfkjfd fdkjdkjf
Dec 17 23:36:51 <DocScrutinizer> generally a script will add a useless process, unless you do something useful in script (then it's not useless), or you do exec (then there's no new process)
Dec 17 23:36:51 <SpeedEvil> df -i goes down by one, df doesn't change
Dec 17 23:36:59 <alterego> Say I'm writing a contact web front end, if I use an evolution backend to store contact information, would it be easy at a later date to integrated MS Outlook/Exchange?
Dec 17 23:37:05 <SpeedEvil> (ext3)
Dec 17 23:37:12 <alterego> ~integrate ..
Dec 17 23:38:07 <DocScrutinizer> a shell script works on fs that don't know links (FAT?), but also is slower and eats more memory
Dec 17 23:38:18 <DocScrutinizer> possibly lots more
Dec 17 23:38:33 <DocScrutinizer> mem, not storage
Dec 17 23:38:37 <SpeedEvil> It's quite light on busybox
Dec 17 23:38:43 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Dec 17 23:38:51 <SpeedEvil> But FAT doesn't do executables
Dec 17 23:38:58 <SpeedEvil> typically on maemo
Dec 17 23:38:59 <DocScrutinizer> it could
Dec 17 23:39:06 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: here you go: http://venemo.net/puzzle-master_1.0.0_armel_for_doc_1.2.deb
Dec 17 23:39:26 <Venemo> it also makes a symlink for you
Dec 17 23:39:29 <DocScrutinizer> so deb it or HAM it?
Dec 17 23:40:04 <DocScrutinizer> i.e. do I need --force-foo?
Dec 17 23:40:08 <SpeedEvil> That connection stalls out
Dec 17 23:40:09 <Venemo> whatever works. this is now linked against 4.6
Dec 17 23:40:16 <SpeedEvil> oh
Dec 17 23:40:16 <SpeedEvil> local net issues
Dec 17 23:40:17 <Venemo> you shouldn't need force
Dec 17 23:40:25 <DocScrutinizer> so clicking the link should be fine :-)
Dec 17 23:40:32 <Venemo> yes, it should
Dec 17 23:40:47 * MohammadAG stabs HAM
Dec 17 23:41:42 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: I don't have another N900 with 1.2 to test it on, but unpacking the deb now tells it needs 4.6.2, and it works on my 1.3 N900
Dec 17 23:41:51 <DocScrutinizer> missing: libqtm-sensors
Dec 17 23:41:56 <Venemo> naaaa
Dec 17 23:42:03 <Venemo> no way
Dec 17 23:42:14 <MohammadAG> heh
Dec 17 23:42:19 <MohammadAG> shlibs:depends?
Dec 17 23:42:37 <Venemo> hmpfh
Dec 17 23:42:39 <SpeedEvil> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of puzzle-master:
Dec 17 23:42:39 <SpeedEvil>  puzzle-master depends on libqtm-sensors; however:
Dec 17 23:42:40 <SpeedEvil>   Package libqtm-sensors is not installed.
Dec 17 23:42:48 <Venemo> how the hell did that slip in there?
Dec 17 23:43:20 <Venemo> okay
Dec 17 23:43:23 <Venemo> I'll do one more try
Dec 17 23:43:42 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: yeah, it's getting more nice every time
Dec 17 23:45:20 <DocScrutinizer> ""#include mathlib //it could be useful eventually""
Dec 17 23:45:32 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Dec 17 23:46:19 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: http://venemo.net/puzzle-master_1.0.0_armel_for_doc_round3.deb
Dec 17 23:46:39 <Venemo> should be totally pr1.2-proof now
Dec 17 23:46:49 <DocScrutinizer> actually, this comment was triggered by me thinking about loading libqtm-sensors on runtime, and check if that fails
Dec 17 23:47:35 <Venemo> well it doesn't acutally use that lib, just forgot to take out one more occurrence from the control file
Dec 17 23:47:48 <Venemo> anyway, try the last link, that should be okay
Dec 17 23:48:26 * DocScrutinizer51 curses apt-worker
Dec 17 23:49:07 <Venemo> ~nuke apt-worker
Dec 17 23:49:08 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at apt-worker ... B☢☢M!
Dec 17 23:49:12 <DocScrutinizer51> HELL wonder if it ever finishes
Dec 17 23:49:29 <DocScrutinizer51> YEAH, now try again
Dec 17 23:50:08 <Venemo> umm?
Dec 17 23:50:44 <MohammadAG> killall apt-worker fixes that for me
Dec 17 23:51:02 <MohammadAG> then i replaced it with a shell script
Dec 17 23:51:11 <DocScrutinizer51> NICE :-)
Dec 17 23:51:16 <MohammadAG> echo "fuck off HAM" = no more CPU usage
Dec 17 23:51:38 <Venemo> hmm... how interesting... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=892288#post892288
Dec 17 23:53:14 * MohammadAG likes MeeGo again
Dec 17 23:53:20 <MohammadAG> SGX makes it pleasant to use
Dec 17 23:53:37 <MohammadAG> videos rotate in meego
Dec 17 23:53:47 <Venemo> nice
Dec 17 23:53:59 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: does the stuff work now? :)
Dec 17 23:54:05 <MohammadAG> though the samples were 240p :P
Dec 17 23:54:14 <DocScrutinizer51> I ROCK!
Dec 17 23:54:20 <Venemo> :)
Dec 17 23:54:24 <MohammadAG> no, you scrutinize
Dec 17 23:54:34 <Venemo> according to Puzzle Master, he rocks
Dec 17 23:55:20 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer51: you can change the difficulty (puzzle size) in menu/settings if you get bored by the default one
Dec 17 23:55:21 <DocScrutinizer51> Venemo: VERY nice
Dec 17 23:55:26 <Venemo> thx DocScrutinizer51
Dec 17 23:56:38 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer51: oh, and I left the accelerometer option in the settings ui, but it won't do anything for you since I removed the relevant code to make it work on 1.2
Dec 17 23:56:43 <DocScrutinizer51> Venemo: yes
Dec 17 23:56:49 <DocScrutinizer51> 4*4
Dec 17 23:58:00 <Venemo> I play with 5×5 nowadays
Dec 17 23:58:52 <Venemo> I guess the very difficult ones require the stylus
Dec 17 23:59:13 * MohammadAG still tries to use multitouch
Dec 17 23:59:18 <Venemo> :D
Dec 17 23:59:45 * Venemo was actually thinking about using the multitouch API for capable harware
Dec 17 23:59:54 <Scor|> hello
Dec 17 23:59:58 <Venemo> hello Scor|
Dec 18 00:00:04 * MohammadAG sends Venemo a Qt-less iPhone
Dec 18 00:00:19 <Venemo> MohammadAG: nah. I'm talking about N8, C6, and E7
Dec 18 00:00:29 <MohammadAG> i know :P
Dec 18 00:00:42 <Scor|> is this good place to ask question about usb networking between n900 and linux box ?
Dec 18 00:00:49 <Venemo> Scor|: yes, it is
Dec 18 00:00:56 <Venemo> Scor|: what's your question?
Dec 18 00:01:06 <Scor|> i kinda worked it out already, but have some minor deails to polish
Dec 18 00:01:35 <Scor|> my linux box is a gentoo laptop, and on it i bridged eth0 and N900 together
Dec 18 00:01:54 <Scor|> and on N900 itself i used guide from wiki.maemo.org
Dec 18 00:01:54 <Venemo> Scor|: I recommend using the application called Mad Developer on the N900. launch it and select "usb networking" then "unix network"
Dec 18 00:02:25 <Scor|> oh, thanks, that should simplify some things
Dec 18 00:02:41 <Venemo> Scor|: works with a single click, plus minimal setup on your desktop
Dec 18 00:03:00 * MohammadAG needs to sleep
Dec 18 00:03:14 <MohammadAG> night
Dec 18 00:03:21 <Venemo> MohammadAG: then go to sleep
Dec 18 00:03:24 <Venemo> good night :)
Dec 18 00:03:39 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer51: should you ever want to try the accelerometer-enabled version, I think you may be able to update your libqt4 from the SDK repo
Dec 18 00:04:02 <Scor|> Venemo: it works already, i just wanted to ask if it's possible to start usb0 using simple command like ifup when it's set to dhcp in /etc/network/interfaces
Dec 18 00:04:14 <lardman> night night all
Dec 18 00:04:17 <DocScrutinizer51> Venemo: thanks. what will accel do?
Dec 18 00:04:22 <Venemo> Scor|: oh, I dunno that, sorry
Dec 18 00:04:32 <MohammadAG> Venemo, read me a story about open source vs closed source
Dec 18 00:04:35 <Scor|> sure, no problem
Dec 18 00:04:49 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer51: the pieces will drift as you tilt the N900
Dec 18 00:05:10 <Venemo> MohammadAG: :)
Dec 18 00:05:13 <MohammadAG> in a way that doesn't annoy you, but adds life to the game :P
Dec 18 00:06:11 <Venemo> nah
Dec 18 00:06:12 <Scor|> Venemo: how can i install that "Mad Developer" app using apt ?
Dec 18 00:06:27 <Venemo> Scor|: not sure which repo it's in
Dec 18 00:06:46 <Scor|> extras, i got it in app manager
Dec 18 00:06:56 <Venemo> Scor|: 'apt-get install mad-developer' should do it
Dec 18 00:07:49 <Scor|> yup, it works :)
Dec 18 00:08:00 <Scor|> there should be some shearch function...
Dec 18 00:08:06 <Venemo> MohammadAG: btw, DocScrutinizer's version is special. it contains in the package description, "This version is specifically built for the one and only DocScrutinizer!"
Dec 18 00:08:21 <MohammadAG> lol
Dec 18 00:08:33 <DocScrutinizer51> heh!
Dec 18 00:09:04 * Venemo wondered if DocScrutinizer51 would notice it :P
Dec 18 00:09:50 <DocScrutinizer51> I only checked the installs/problems tab :)
Dec 18 00:10:17 <Venemo> hehe :)
Dec 18 00:10:52 <Venemo> nah, I'll leave you alone guys, I gotta boot my Fedora and try http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66669
Dec 18 00:11:02 <Venemo> will be back in a few minutes
Dec 18 00:11:27 <Venemo> brb
Dec 18 00:11:28 <b-man`> saw that this morning :)
Dec 18 00:12:08 <b-man`> if only i still had my N800, i kinda miss the 4" screen :(
Dec 18 00:14:15 <Scorcerer> works like a charm, thanks Venemo
Dec 18 00:15:56 <Venemo_N900> Scorcerer: umm, what?
Dec 18 00:16:14 <Scorcerer> oh, nvm :>
Dec 18 00:16:32 <Venemo_N900> what works like a charm? :P
Dec 18 00:17:37 <Scorcerer> mad developer + usb networking + bridged ifaces on gentoo :)
Dec 18 00:17:38 <Venemo> hey again folks
Dec 18 00:17:47 <Venemo> Scorcerer: oh, that was you :)
Dec 18 00:17:57 <Venemo> Scorcerer: you're welcome
Dec 18 00:19:51 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: the solution was to download an old version of MADDE and use that to build the app for you
Dec 18 00:20:39 <DocScrutinizer51> eeeew, what a pain
Dec 18 00:20:51 <DocScrutinizer51> sorry
Dec 18 00:20:56 <Venemo> no problem
Dec 18 00:21:15 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway been worth it :D
Dec 18 00:21:27 <DocScrutinizer51> really nice
Dec 18 00:21:34 <DocScrutinizer51> faces are simple
Dec 18 00:21:41 <Venemo> after the one with the newer version didn't work, it became a challenge for me. if I didn't solve it, I couldn't sleep :P
Dec 18 00:21:46 <DocScrutinizer51> got 90s for 4*4
Dec 18 00:21:51 <Venemo> :)
Dec 18 00:22:19 <DocScrutinizer51> now I'll segfault it :-P
Dec 18 00:22:35 <Venemo> how?
Dec 18 00:22:43 <DocScrutinizer51> nah
Dec 18 00:23:05 <DocScrutinizer51> yust an impossible puzzle from that mp4
Dec 18 00:23:22 <Venemo> ehm.
Dec 18 00:23:28 <Venemo> it just won't open it
Dec 18 00:23:38 <DocScrutinizer51> it did
Dec 18 00:23:46 <Venemo> an mp4?
Dec 18 00:23:48 <Venemo> heh
Dec 18 00:23:54 <DocScrutinizer51> allegedly even prepared
Dec 18 00:24:07 <DocScrutinizer51> all black though
Dec 18 00:24:13 <Venemo> yep.
Dec 18 00:24:29 <Venemo> QPixmap silently fails when it finds a format it can't handle
Dec 18 00:25:52 <Venemo> I forgot to check it, so the game thinks that it is okay
Dec 18 00:25:59 <Venemo> it will not segfault though :)
Dec 18 00:26:09 <DocScrutinizer51> meh
Dec 18 00:26:13 <DocScrutinizer51> one thing
Dec 18 00:26:16 <Venemo> yes?
Dec 18 00:26:43 <DocScrutinizer51> it should keep the "other..." pictures
Dec 18 00:27:27 <Venemo> good idea
Dec 18 00:27:30 <DocScrutinizer51> either that or directly open
Dec 18 00:27:50 <Venemo> okay
Dec 18 00:27:58 <Venemo> hm
Dec 18 00:28:13 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway if it append to the local list, it should keep and have a way to delete from there
Dec 18 00:28:50 <Venemo> yeah, this is among the planned features
Dec 18 00:29:06 <Venemo> the other one is a setting to change the background
Dec 18 00:29:25 <DocScrutinizer51> errr
Dec 18 00:29:25 <Venemo> that way you can play with darker pictures without issue by setting a white background
Dec 18 00:29:33 <DocScrutinizer51> aaah
Dec 18 00:29:36 <DocScrutinizer51> yes
Dec 18 00:30:40 <DocScrutinizer51> if you like to get fancy, you can build a histogram for the used colors
Dec 18 00:31:08 <DocScrutinizer51> then auto tune background to complementary
Dec 18 00:31:15 <DocScrutinizer51> or checkered
Dec 18 00:31:28 <DocScrutinizer51> if no unused color
Dec 18 00:31:44 <Venemo> was thinking about it, but I don't know of an easy way to do this
Dec 18 00:32:20 <DocScrutinizer51> cmdline imgtools
Dec 18 00:34:46 <DocScrutinizer51> or steal from fcam
Dec 18 00:34:52 <jacekowski> hmm, japan
Dec 18 00:35:10 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm?
Dec 18 00:35:26 <DocScrutinizer51> silvian?
Dec 18 00:37:32 <Macer> so objects within the universe can not travel faster than light but the universe can expand faster than the speed of light?
Dec 18 00:37:41 <Venemo> yes Macer
Dec 18 00:38:06 <Venemo> Macer: and the former is only true until the invention of FTL
Dec 18 00:38:42 <Macer> so how are two objects moving away from one another each traveling at light speed not considered by each observer as traveling faster than light?
Dec 18 00:38:56 <Venemo> Macer: ask a philosopher
Dec 18 00:39:11 <Macer> wouldn't they appear as traveling 2x the speed of light? :)
Dec 18 00:39:18 <Venemo> maybe yes
Dec 18 00:39:31 <Venemo> I haven't observed anything moving away from me FTL yet :P
Dec 18 00:39:56 <Macer> you probably have ;) you just dont know it
Dec 18 00:40:16 <Macer> i was more so curious about the universe not having an outer edge
Dec 18 00:40:30 <Macer> odd concept
Dec 18 00:40:58 <MohammadAG> damn sleepless nights
Dec 18 00:41:15 <Macer> i think the best theory i heard was that our universe was actually the inside of an event horizon :)
Dec 18 00:41:15 <Venemo> MohammadAG: just go sleep :P
Dec 18 00:41:17 <nox-> Macer, you forgot time passes different near light speed...
Dec 18 00:41:35 <MohammadAG> Venemo, i'm in bed
Dec 18 00:41:49 <Macer> there is no such thing as time :)
Dec 18 00:41:53 <Venemo> MohammadAG: I couldn't sleep either while chatting on IRC :P
Dec 18 00:42:34 * MohammadAG was offline
Dec 18 00:42:51 <Venemo> hm, sorry
Dec 18 00:43:00 <nox-> Macer, in that case, speed becomes meaningless too :)
Dec 18 00:45:47 <spiritd> installing maemo sdk
Dec 18 00:46:27 <spiritd> is there some packet generator tool for maemo like hping, nemesis, packeth
Dec 18 00:46:28 <spiritd> ?
Dec 18 00:49:43 <DocScrutinizer> Macer: (FTL) you gave the answer: you just dont know it. I.E. that's the base of relativity theory. You are not observing anything absolute, ever. The info about location needs time to reach you, and your time isn't the time of the object moving
Dec 18 00:50:18 <spiritd> where did you learne that? :D
Dec 18 00:50:51 <DocScrutinizer> you learn such things at school, no?
Dec 18 00:56:52 <Termana> good morning
Dec 18 00:58:07 <MohammadAG> aftermidnight Termana
Dec 18 01:05:53 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: what to do if an N810 doesn't want to boot into flashing mode?
Dec 18 01:11:10 <luke-jr> Venemo: there is no flashing mode
Dec 18 01:11:25 <luke-jr> just power it off completely, remove power for a minute, then start flasher before plugging it into PC
Dec 18 01:11:58 <Venemo> luke-jr: what about the instruction which says long-press the button with the two overlapping rectangles?
Dec 18 01:13:01 <Venemo> luke-jr: does ~flashing lie?
Dec 18 01:13:03 <alterego> That's for the N8x0s
Dec 18 01:13:24 <alterego> We don't have that button on the N900
Dec 18 01:13:37 <Venemo> I'm talking about the N810
Dec 18 01:13:56 <Venemo> alterego: yeah.
Dec 18 01:14:01 <alterego> Oh, well, I'm not sure it's necessary :P
Dec 18 01:14:05 <Venemo> excerpt from ~flashing: N810 WiMAX, N810, N800 and 770: Connect your device to your computer via USB. While holding the Home/Swap button (It's a house on the 770 and N800, and two overlapping rectangles on the N810), power on the device by holding the power button. You should see a Nokia logo in the middle of the screen, and a USB icon in the top right corner.
Dec 18 01:14:17 <alterego> Might have been in earlier f/w version irc
Dec 18 01:14:46 <luke-jr> Venemo: sure
Dec 18 01:14:58 <alterego> Anyhow, g'night folks.
Dec 18 01:15:32 <Venemo> luke-jr: anyway, flasher still says Suitable USB device not found, waiting.
Dec 18 01:15:41 <Venemo> luke-jr: after trying what you said
Dec 18 01:15:56 <luke-jr> Venemo: usually for me that means your host system USB stack is broken
Dec 18 01:16:13 <luke-jr> for mod in {e,u}hci_hcd; do rmmod $mod; sleep 1; modprobe $mod; done
Dec 18 01:16:20 <Venemo> luke-jr: well I was able to flash the N810 about a month ago from the same system
Dec 18 01:16:26 <luke-jr> beware, all USB will shutdown for that
Dec 18 01:16:50 <Venemo> luke-jr: hm. my system runs from an USB HDD, would it be wise to do that? :P
Dec 18 01:16:54 <luke-jr> no
Dec 18 01:16:57 <luke-jr> rather unwise
Dec 18 01:17:00 <luke-jr> to run from USB
Dec 18 01:17:05 <luke-jr> at all
Dec 18 01:17:13 <luke-jr> unless it's USB3
Dec 18 01:17:15 <luke-jr> which might be sane
Dec 18 01:17:19 <luke-jr> but nfc how it works ☺
Dec 18 01:17:41 <Venemo> no, not usb 3
Dec 18 01:17:42 <Venemo> hm
Dec 18 01:18:07 <luke-jr> you could reboot I suppose
Dec 18 01:18:45 <luke-jr> the cause of the broken state is, by guessing, NOLO failing to de-initialize the port before handing it over to Linux
Dec 18 01:21:36 <Venemo> I could try rebooting the pc, yes
Dec 18 01:22:16 <Venemo> but the N810 is in a bricked state now
Dec 18 01:23:29 <Venemo> luke-jr: I was trying this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66669
Dec 18 01:23:53 <luke-jr> then you're screwed
Dec 18 01:24:01 <luke-jr> N810 doesn't charge until it boots
Dec 18 01:24:13 <Venemo> it is fully charged
Dec 18 01:24:18 <luke-jr> not if you keep failing
Dec 18 01:24:34 <Venemo> well since I don't power it up, it won't consume power
Dec 18 01:24:58 <Venemo> nah, I'll reboot the pc and see what happens then
Dec 18 01:25:00 <Venemo> brb
Dec 18 01:27:39 <spiritd> can I copy to Xephy window?
Dec 18 01:27:50 <spiritd> i mean ctrl+v to forms
Dec 18 01:28:09 <spiritd> btw i have ubuntu 10.04 in vmware... and backspace doesnt work :/
Dec 18 01:31:26 <Venemo> luke-jr: still no luck
Dec 18 01:33:17 <Venemo> luke-jr: do you have any ideas?
Dec 18 01:35:03 <spiritd> i ll use official virtual image
Dec 18 01:43:14 <spiritd> how can i download this https://garage.maemo.org/projects/hping2/ using app manager?
Dec 18 01:52:08 <Venemo> luke-jr: btw, the N810 can charge itself in its current state
Dec 18 01:55:42 <spiritd> MohammadAG ... where can I find strace for N900?
Dec 18 01:55:58 <MohammadAG> sdk repos
Dec 18 01:56:09 <MohammadAG> http://maemo.org/packages/view/strace
Dec 18 01:56:35 <spiritd> how can i add these repos to N900?
Dec 18 01:58:03 <spiritd> hmm it is in extras-devel ... cant see that...
Dec 18 01:58:12 <spiritd> something wrong in n900
Dec 18 01:58:42 <spiritd> MohammadAG btw how can i download this https://garage.maemo.org/projects/hping2/ using app manager?
Dec 18 02:05:45 <Venemo> nah, all solved
Dec 18 02:05:50 <Venemo> thx for the help :)
Dec 18 02:13:18 <spiritd> ohhh... i understand
Dec 18 02:13:32 <spiritd> its for older releases... "diablo"
Dec 18 02:13:54 <spiritd> MohammadAG ... i ment ... i d like to download it for n900 phone not for sdk
Dec 18 02:27:03 <spiritd> these is fck good... sshd to my phone... love this phone
Dec 18 02:27:24 <Venemo> spiritd: I'm happy :)
Dec 18 02:28:09 <DangerMaus> heh
Dec 18 02:39:17 <spiritd> ok installed strace //guide http://dabase.com/blog/n900_developer_tips/
Dec 18 02:40:43 <Venemo> nah guys, I'm extremely weary, so I'll say goodbye and leave now
Dec 18 02:40:53 <spiritd> kk bb
Dec 18 02:40:58 <spiritd> gn
Dec 18 02:41:02 <spiritd> :)
Dec 18 02:42:03 <spiritd> even sft works... oh guys... this is totally awsome
Dec 18 02:42:09 <spiritd> sftp
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 18 03:00:01 2010