**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 19 02:59:57 2010
Dec 19 03:03:10 <luke-jr> ebzzry_: I expect you can compile it w/o changed
Dec 19 03:03:12 <luke-jr> changes
Dec 19 03:04:42 <ebzzry_> Hmm
Dec 19 03:26:40 <ebzzry_> Is there a way to change bookmark icons in the desktop?
Dec 19 03:27:15 <ebzzry_> smaller
Dec 19 06:19:13 <Termana> good morning
Dec 19 06:19:40 <DigitalPioneer> morning
Dec 19 06:20:13 <DocAvalanche> sorry for noise, need to use-refresh my nicks
Dec 19 06:21:44 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: why? nicks don't expire on freenode
Dec 19 06:21:53 <joerg_relogintem> sure they do
Dec 19 06:21:59 <Termana> Or well, at least if you have the grouped in to the one nick they don't
Dec 19 06:22:03 <Termana> have them*
Dec 19 06:22:14 <Termana> I have a build up of nicks that I never use :p
Dec 19 06:23:00 <DocScrutinizer> if somebody else reclaims that nick, freenode staff may give it away if it's not actively used
Dec 19 06:23:42 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: but don't you think they will see the fact that you are just cycling into those nicknames? :p
Dec 19 06:24:20 <DocScrutinizer> sure, nickserv has a recently-used date for each nick
Dec 19 06:26:28 <DocScrutinizer> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userexpirations
Dec 19 06:52:33 <luke-jr> O HAI THAR MR DOC SCRUTINIZER OPENMOKO ENGINEER SIR
Dec 19 07:04:51 <Gh0sty> hello
Dec 19 07:05:11 <Gh0sty> backing up my n900 (copying all files from the storage mode)
Dec 19 07:05:33 <Gh0sty> and then I guess I'll also have to hook it up in pc suite mode to transfer some scripts I placed in /root ? :p
Dec 19 07:05:49 <psycho_oreos> you won't backup all the stuff you installed if you're copying stuffy through storage mode
Dec 19 07:05:57 <Gh0sty> nono
Dec 19 07:06:00 <Gh0sty> but this is point a
Dec 19 07:06:09 <Gh0sty> point b is in ssh mode copy over some scripts
Dec 19 07:06:21 <Gh0sty> and point c is save a backup which i made through the backup tool :)
Dec 19 07:06:34 <Gh0sty> then its time for a reflash
Dec 19 07:07:02 <Gh0sty> that should be safe enough? :P
Dec 19 07:08:31 <psycho_oreos> probably
Dec 19 07:08:56 <psycho_oreos> I was thinking of using something like rob's backup tool
Dec 19 07:13:53 <Gh0sty> rob's backup tool?
Dec 19 07:14:56 <psycho_oreos> yeah, its not available in extras yet but its a very handy tool for backing up stuff, I might have a bookmark link somewhere but I have to forewarn you that it does have a bit of a catch on its own
Dec 19 07:15:39 <Gh0sty> :/
Dec 19 07:15:46 <Gh0sty> what do you mean by catch?
Dec 19 07:15:52 <Gh0sty> it will eat my dog? :p
Dec 19 07:16:10 <Gh0sty> dont understand why nobody made a "full backup" tool actually
Dec 19 07:16:24 <Gh0sty> something which just writes the whole device filesystem to the SD card
Dec 19 07:16:30 <psycho_oreos> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975
Dec 19 07:16:40 <Gh0sty> ofcourse this means you need to clean off the excess data first
Dec 19 07:17:16 <Gh0sty> even backing up goes slow now :/
Dec 19 07:17:26 <Gh0sty> despite the fact i just rebooted the phone
Dec 19 07:17:36 <Gh0sty> its seriously badly behaving lately
Dec 19 07:17:50 <Gh0sty> messed a bit too much with it i guess :p
Dec 19 07:18:01 <Gh0sty> and its still on top of an ota pr1.3 update also
Dec 19 07:20:06 <Gh0sty> ok lets see now ... the instructions on how to flash your device :)
Dec 19 07:20:43 <DocScrutinizer> backup menu is supposed to do a full backup
Dec 19 07:21:10 <Gh0sty> does backup menu also backup files I put myself in /home/user or /root ?
Dec 19 07:21:14 <DocScrutinizer> restoring a full backup after flash is obviously useless, except for rollback of that flash
Dec 19 07:21:22 <Gh0sty> yes thats my point
Dec 19 07:21:30 <Gh0sty> if all else fails just rollback
Dec 19 07:21:35 <Gh0sty> hmmz
Dec 19 07:21:39 <Gh0sty> problem number 1
Dec 19 07:21:45 <Gh0sty> flasher is i386
Dec 19 07:21:59 <Gh0sty> and I don't have a linux machine with i386 anymore
Dec 19 07:22:31 <luke-jr> XD
Dec 19 07:23:04 <Gh0sty> ah the manual says I can just force install
Dec 19 07:23:05 <Gh0sty> good
Dec 19 07:23:59 <luke-jr> Gh0sty: it won't work tho
Dec 19 07:25:04 <Gh0sty> what wont?
Dec 19 07:25:12 <Gh0sty> force architecture installed the deb file ...
Dec 19 07:25:21 <luke-jr> sure, but it won't run
Dec 19 07:25:26 <Gh0sty> ??
Dec 19 07:25:27 <luke-jr> force = break my system
Dec 19 07:25:41 <Gh0sty> the tool wont work?
Dec 19 07:25:55 <Gh0sty> why do they even bother to put in the manual that you can just install it like that ??
Dec 19 07:26:00 <luke-jr> nfc
Dec 19 07:26:13 <Gh0sty> I'll try, see where I end up ...
Dec 19 07:26:26 <luke-jr> if it DOES work, then you DO have i386 :P
Dec 19 07:26:32 <Pradeep> good morning everyone
Dec 19 07:27:30 <Pradeep> n900 is not suppose to be a fone a piece of hardware awesome
Dec 19 07:31:27 <Gh0sty> luke-jr: ofcourse my laptop also has i386 libs and stuff
Dec 19 07:31:34 <Gh0sty> not all things work x64 ... :/
Dec 19 07:31:47 <Gh0sty> despite the fact that companies should stop building i386 software :/
Dec 19 07:32:06 <DocScrutinizer> wtf my Pentium Dualcore isn't a I386 compatible CPU anymore??
Dec 19 07:32:13 <Pradeep> so do you prefer 32bit hardware
Dec 19 07:32:54 <Gh0sty> most just screw you ... you have 64 bit oh thats not (yet) supported
Dec 19 07:33:00 <Gh0sty> like this flasher thing
Dec 19 07:33:12 <Gh0sty> common half of the pcs in the homes are now 64 bit ...
Dec 19 07:33:33 <DocScrutinizer> so what?
Dec 19 07:33:39 <Gh0sty> I installed my windows 64 bit and my linux 64 bit, got 4G mem in most machines so at least they can use it ...
Dec 19 07:33:53 <Gh0sty> otherwise its a waste of the hardware :p
Dec 19 07:34:00 <DocScrutinizer> you don't say they forgot how to work with 32bit instruction set?
Dec 19 07:34:07 <Gh0sty> no
Dec 19 07:34:18 <Gh0sty> but on that part windows is better then linux
Dec 19 07:34:31 <Gh0sty> for some reason they compile everything with 64 bit architecture
Dec 19 07:34:53 <Gh0sty> despite the fact that a browser does not really have any benefit from this (to name one app) I think
Dec 19 07:35:38 <DocScrutinizer> hell an i7 probably still could emulate 8088 with proper microcode
Dec 19 07:35:41 <Gh0sty> on windows you see beautifully some stuff running 32, others 64 ... on ubuntu in particular you see all kinds of problems comming from 32 bit apps they want to force in 64 bit mode
Dec 19 07:36:01 <Gh0sty> lol ok sorry my previous expression was maybe malformed ... :)
Dec 19 07:36:09 <Gh0sty> let me put it this way then:
Dec 19 07:36:21 <Gh0sty> they should stop making ONLY i386 stuff
Dec 19 07:36:25 <Pradeep> i think i agree there but but 64bit apps dont qork on i386 system even widows
Dec 19 07:36:25 <DocScrutinizer> ~ubuntu
Dec 19 07:36:26 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, ubuntu is caca from this ass http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3843/18427557718e22857e9rb.jpg
Dec 19 07:36:31 <Gh0sty> at least package it also for x64
Dec 19 07:37:23 <DocScrutinizer> or http://xkcd.com/424/ for my take on buntkuh
Dec 19 07:37:37 <Gh0sty> yeah ok ... :p
Dec 19 07:37:46 <Gh0sty> already figured that you are a purist :)
Dec 19 07:38:17 <Gh0sty> I don't particularry like ubuntu that much, but in the end my debian unstable looked a lot like it but less integrated
Dec 19 07:38:29 <Gh0sty> so a couple of years back I switched my desktop and laptop to ubuntu
Dec 19 07:38:38 <Gh0sty> servers however stay debian :)
Dec 19 07:39:26 <Termana> Gh0sty, I don't understand wtf your talking about. Ubuntu doesn't compile for i386 at all
Dec 19 07:39:38 <DocScrutinizer> the problem is Mr Shuttleworth and his canonical mafia not only integrated, but thought they can own linux and reinvent it. Even worse, they were successfull on this evil plan
Dec 19 07:40:31 <Gh0sty> yes there is the issue with the company behind it yes ...
Dec 19 07:41:08 <Gh0sty> but I'm not that much interested in politics
Dec 19 07:41:46 <DocScrutinizer> now as much poor mislead nitwits think Canonical invented linux and called it buntkuh, as there are morons who think Gates invented GUI
Dec 19 07:42:35 <DocScrutinizer> or, for a popular example: ...who think internet == http://
Dec 19 07:42:35 <Gh0sty> hehe :)
Dec 19 07:42:48 <Gh0sty> yeah well thats the younger generation I think
Dec 19 07:43:24 <Gh0sty> omg
Dec 19 07:43:26 <Gh0sty> sooo clean :p
Dec 19 07:43:31 <Gh0sty> fresh firmware :)
Dec 19 07:43:37 <Gh0sty> now lets do the emmc
Dec 19 07:43:40 <Termana> DocScrutinizer: tell me again why you are calling it buntkuh?
Dec 19 07:44:03 <DocScrutinizer> buntkuh a checkered cow
Dec 19 07:44:31 <DocScrutinizer> correctly named Fleckvieh
Dec 19 07:48:15 <Pradeep> ok
Dec 19 07:49:00 <Pradeep> nope apple invented the gui
Dec 19 07:49:32 <Gh0sty> ok ...
Dec 19 07:49:36 <Gh0sty> after the emmc update
Dec 19 07:49:40 <Gh0sty> all menus have blocks
Dec 19 07:49:44 <Gh0sty> in stead of text
Dec 19 07:49:50 <Gh0sty> and colors are all fucked
Dec 19 07:49:57 <DocScrutinizer> not even that. Xerox Palo Alto research center invented GUI
Dec 19 07:50:22 <DocScrutinizer> and the mouse
Dec 19 07:51:41 <DocScrutinizer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARC_(company)#The_GUI
Dec 19 07:52:54 <Gh0sty> flash attempt number 2
Dec 19 07:55:16 <korhojoa> any of you guys lost your microusb?
Dec 19 07:55:20 <korhojoa> mine is failing
Dec 19 07:55:36 <DocScrutinizer> oops  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Engelbart
Dec 19 07:55:52 <Gh0sty> NOTE: Always flash the FIASCO image first, then the eMMC image immediately after that. Never boot up the device between flashing the FIASCO image and the eMMC image!
Dec 19 07:55:53 <DocScrutinizer> so mouse was invented not by PARC
Dec 19 07:55:55 <Gh0sty> eurgh what?
Dec 19 07:56:04 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: screw that
Dec 19 07:56:05 <Gh0sty> the device will reboot after you flash the fiasco
Dec 19 07:56:11 <Gh0sty> I should interrupt that boot process??
Dec 19 07:57:18 <DocScrutinizer> proper instruction is: if you want to flash eMMC/VANILLA, the di that first, omit -R in flasher cmd, power down N900 by removing battery after flashing, then flash COMBINED after that
Dec 19 07:59:20 <Gh0sty> so first the emmc and then the combined? :o
Dec 19 07:59:24 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Dec 19 07:59:28 <Gh0sty> ah yes the -R is reboot
Dec 19 07:59:32 <Gh0sty> doh stupid manual!
Dec 19 08:00:59 <DocScrutinizer> yes, and stupid users who did a rollback on my edits, just because they thought they know better. "I can *READ* and in http://foo.bar.boo it's written you *MUST* do the other way round. Jorg, we don't accept your corrections"
Dec 19 08:01:45 <korhojoa> well aren't we harsh today
Dec 19 08:02:03 <Venemo> hi guys
Dec 19 08:02:11 <Gh0sty> well he is right
Dec 19 08:02:16 <Gh0sty> so can't blame him
Dec 19 08:02:32 * Gh0sty nominees DocScrutinizer as help of the day
Dec 19 08:03:02 <Gh0sty> if you come to fosdem its already 2 beers waiting for you ;p
Dec 19 08:03:40 * korhojoa nominates DocScrutinizer as "most like a #debian user"
Dec 19 08:09:01 <DocScrutinizer> korhojoa: what's your problem?
Dec 19 08:46:03 <DocScrutinizer> (rollback) see http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Updating_the_firmware&oldid=36095 >> 22:56, 19 June 2010 92.26.107.219 (Talk) (21,483 bytes) (It seems that you should flash the fiasco then the emmc, not the other way around...)<< and also >> 16:16, 11 June 2010 Joerg rw (Talk | contribs) (21,483 bytes) (→Flashing the eMMC in the N900:  sequence changed, though if really not booting it doesn't matter)<<;   >> 22:09, 29 June 2010 Joerg
Dec 19 08:46:04 <DocScrutinizer> rw (Talk | contribs) (22,315 bytes) (Undo revision 36095 by 92.26.107.219 (Talk) It seems?? Please get higher competence and better rationale before correcting my edits)<<  and  >>12:10, 30 June 2010 Mohammad7410 (Talk | contribs) (22,272 bytes) (Undo revision 36377 by Joerg rw (Talk))<<  in http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Updating_the_firmware&action=history. You also might want to check IRC log of this chan, same period of time, for
Dec 19 08:46:06 <DocScrutinizer> extended discussions of the topic, all coming to the final result ""for now the sequence eMMC(VANILLA) first, *THEN* rootfs(COMBINED) is the more failsafe method"
Dec 19 08:49:29 <Venemo> afaik the sequence doesn't matter as long as you don't boot up between them. right?
Dec 19 08:50:52 <RobbieThe1st> I wonder... I don't think flashing the emmc, rebooting, then (attempting to) flash the combined image would hurt anything... It just wouldn't actually -boot- correctly inbetween
Dec 19 08:51:19 <RobbieThe1st> And as the rootfs/combined image copies over all needed optfs files on first boot...
Dec 19 08:51:43 <DocScrutinizer> I corrected the wiki, 92.26.107.219 did an undo, I did an undo on the undo, MohammadAG did an undo on the undo on the undo. I explained to MohammadAG why this isn't really a good idea, his comment was WTTE "you can do an undo to the undo to the undo to the undo, *I* won't undo my undo anyway"
Dec 19 08:52:41 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: that's exactly the rationale why I changed the recommended sequence in wiki
Dec 19 08:53:41 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: if you do it the other way round, an accidental boot in between (that's actually easy to happen) will ruin everything
Dec 19 08:53:49 <RobbieThe1st> Yea
Dec 19 08:58:47 <DocScrutinizer> a possible reason why you should flash COMBINED *first* is, it *might* install a new NOLO version and/or other updated system components that have new functions to deal with changes in eMMC setup, so a new VANILLA img would need those new functions. Anyway *for now* - i.e. with the VANILLA img we got now - this is not the case, and the sequence eMMC/VANILLA *first* (don't boot though it doesn't instantly break if you do accidentally), THEN
Dec 19 08:58:48 <DocScrutinizer> rootfs/COMBINED is _clearly_ the better instruction to give
Dec 19 08:59:03 <DocScrutinizer> I can't be arsed to edit wiki a third time though
Dec 19 09:11:48 <RobbieThe1st> Fixed for you
Dec 19 09:13:15 <Loom> hi
Dec 19 09:14:18 <Loom> got my n900 2 days ago and i still haven't figure out where the delete key is
Dec 19 09:14:29 <Loom> any help?
Dec 19 09:15:24 <RobbieThe1st> Um
Dec 19 09:15:32 <RobbieThe1st> It's like shift+backspace
Dec 19 09:15:43 <RobbieThe1st> Or alt+backspace
Dec 19 09:17:01 <Loom> ye shift backspace is
Dec 19 09:17:13 <RobbieThe1st> Just checked. It's shift+backspace, though beware that it might not work on -all- applications
Dec 19 09:17:38 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: still here?
Dec 19 09:19:19 <Gh0sty> http://pastebin.com/WjcX6PqC
Dec 19 09:19:24 <Gh0sty> post times out in 10 minutes
Dec 19 09:19:31 <Gh0sty> will post it on my blog later :)
Dec 19 09:19:51 <Loom> 1 more question. how do you close a dialog or channel window in xchat ?
Dec 19 09:19:54 <Gh0sty> hmm however I could first check if the images are there ... thats a plan :)
Dec 19 09:20:02 <Gh0sty> revision 1.1 comming up :P
Dec 19 09:20:19 <DocScrutinizer> still here, yes
Dec 19 09:21:17 <Termana> WOOO
Dec 19 09:21:35 <Termana> Give us a high five, just aced a test
Dec 19 09:26:11 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: s/ wait a minute and //
Dec 19 09:27:00 <DocScrutinizer> Loom: there's a [   x   ] button on bottom of the chan-tabs list, in my xchat
Dec 19 09:27:18 <lardman> morning
Dec 19 09:27:54 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: also the most safe method is to first plug USB, then insert battery. Rationale: sometimes device boots up on inserting battery
Dec 19 09:27:58 <Loom> in n900?
Dec 19 09:28:01 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: morning
Dec 19 09:28:22 <lardman> hi DocScrutinizer
Dec 19 09:28:28 <DocScrutinizer> Loom: yes
Dec 19 09:28:38 <Loom> fucked up the colors can.t see shit wait
Dec 19 09:32:19 <KotCzarny> hi
Dec 19 09:33:01 <Venemo> hi
Dec 19 09:33:08 <KotCzarny> :)
Dec 19 09:33:42 <KotCzarny> who wants to test my visualizer?
Dec 19 09:34:01 <Loom> that issue because you have the channel switcher in tabs mode i guess
Dec 19 09:34:36 <Loom> i can't find an x on tree mode
Dec 19 09:34:46 <Loom> thx tho
Dec 19 09:36:38 <KotCzarny> shameless plug warning
Dec 19 09:36:46 <KotCzarny> extras-devel: apt-get install osc
Dec 19 09:36:58 <Venemo> hi NooBmonk3y
Dec 19 09:37:07 <KotCzarny> report any issues with install, features, etc
Dec 19 09:37:32 <NooBmonk3y> Morning alls!
Dec 19 09:37:35 <NooBmonk3y> hey Ven!
Dec 19 09:38:00 * NooBmonk3y is preparing to go back to windows today :P ubuntu has been fun, but missing photoshop :P
Dec 19 09:38:09 <KotCzarny> gimp
Dec 19 09:38:13 <NooBmonk3y> meh
Dec 19 09:38:20 <KotCzarny> photoshop is overrated
Dec 19 09:38:30 <KotCzarny> and pricey
Dec 19 09:38:31 <KotCzarny> :)
Dec 19 09:38:54 <KotCzarny> do you support paid apps?
Dec 19 09:39:09 <Venemo> NooBmonk3y: good news: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=899403
Dec 19 09:39:13 <NooBmonk3y> lol thats a random question for a sunday morning ... i support apps that work for me :)
Dec 19 09:39:23 <NooBmonk3y> yay! well done Ven!
Dec 19 09:39:36 <Venemo> NooBmonk3y: you can btw use gimp or wine for photoshop
Dec 19 09:39:40 <KotCzarny> noobmok3y: just using them is supporting
Dec 19 09:39:55 <NooBmonk3y> wine just doesnt seem to always work, and i cant get my head around gimp and scripts etc
Dec 19 09:40:18 <KotCzarny> another way: virtualbox + photoshop
Dec 19 09:40:23 <comawhite> onscreen german keyboard is weird
Dec 19 09:40:25 <KotCzarny> works nicely
Dec 19 09:40:31 <KotCzarny> and doesn't need to dualboot
Dec 19 09:40:31 <Venemo> NooBmonk3y: gimp is the same thing, just has a bit different ui
Dec 19 09:40:38 <KotCzarny> and leave cozy linux shell
Dec 19 09:40:50 <NooBmonk3y> KotCzarny, if i had a decent enough pc i woulda just run ubuntu virtualized, but i dont :p and windows has got more of what i need at the mo :)
Dec 19 09:41:01 <KotCzarny> k
Dec 19 09:41:06 <NooBmonk3y> i do however have an older pc i may set back up with buntu one day
Dec 19 09:41:14 <KotCzarny> but remember, your safety is at the stake
Dec 19 09:41:20 <NooBmonk3y> hehe
Dec 19 09:41:21 <KotCzarny> what if they start checking peoples pcs?
Dec 19 09:41:25 <comawhite> took a long time to find the 'ß' key
Dec 19 09:41:29 <KotCzarny> and confiscating any with illegal software?
Dec 19 09:41:30 <KotCzarny> :)
Dec 19 09:42:00 <NooBmonk3y> illegal? :) - i have a full copy of adobe cs5 and windows lol
Dec 19 09:42:09 <KotCzarny> O.o
Dec 19 09:42:12 <KotCzarny> good for you
Dec 19 09:42:16 <KotCzarny> then i have no more questions
Dec 19 09:42:17 <KotCzarny> :)
Dec 19 09:42:21 <NooBmonk3y> hehe :P
Dec 19 09:42:24 <KotCzarny> use what works for you
Dec 19 09:42:25 <KotCzarny> :)
Dec 19 09:42:31 <KotCzarny> but
Dec 19 09:42:39 <KotCzarny> you have old pc and expensive software
Dec 19 09:42:46 <KotCzarny> which is unlikely combination
Dec 19 09:42:48 <NooBmonk3y> cos i used to have a good pc 6 months ago
Dec 19 09:42:52 <KotCzarny> which means you either lie
Dec 19 09:42:56 <NooBmonk3y> i moved out and left my pc with my brother
Dec 19 09:42:59 <KotCzarny> or are lazy
Dec 19 09:43:04 <KotCzarny> :)
Dec 19 09:43:07 <NooBmonk3y> :)
Dec 19 09:43:09 <NooBmonk3y> family pc ;)
Dec 19 09:43:15 <NooBmonk3y> move out  = no money ;)
Dec 19 09:43:21 <KotCzarny> family pc and notebook for all!
Dec 19 09:43:24 <NooBmonk3y> hehehe
Dec 19 09:43:32 <NooBmonk3y> anyway!
Dec 19 09:43:42 <NooBmonk3y> back in a bit!
Dec 19 09:44:00 <alterego> I have many computers, but I really only use netbook, notebook and N900
Dec 19 09:44:25 <KotCzarny> i use my x40 the most
Dec 19 09:44:35 <alterego> I'm looking for something to use my desktop as, thinking of turning it into a media system.
Dec 19 09:44:37 <KotCzarny> and n900 as a phone + game console
Dec 19 09:46:02 <thresh> there's like 3 games for n900
Dec 19 09:46:16 <KotCzarny> not true
Dec 19 09:46:24 <KotCzarny> just compile one yourself -> done
Dec 19 09:46:34 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: not fixed for me, sorry. The description still is misleading. Compare http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900  to  http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Updating_the_firmware&oldid=35655#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900
Dec 19 09:46:40 <KotCzarny> and now it's one more with venemo's addition
Dec 19 09:46:46 <Gh0sty> http://pastebin.com/G3euRUcr @ DocScrutinizer
Dec 19 09:46:58 <Gh0sty> put it all in functions so now if you want to change the order ... :p
Dec 19 09:47:16 <Gh0sty> next up: going to make it possible to define the EMMC and ROOT images :)
Dec 19 09:47:20 <Gh0sty> but first a shower :p
Dec 19 09:47:26 <RobbieThe1st> DocScrutinizer: I'm not sure what you want there...
Dec 19 09:47:51 <Venemo> thresh: just for you :) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67139
Dec 19 09:48:32 <thresh> ;) thx
Dec 19 09:48:48 <Termana> hey crashanddie_
Dec 19 09:49:32 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: "extra comments..." ?? :-D
Dec 19 09:49:47 <Gh0sty> ah yes :)
Dec 19 09:50:15 <Gh0sty> thats the space where i want to define "parameter -R root image location and -E emmc location
Dec 19 09:50:18 <Gh0sty> or something
Dec 19 09:50:25 <Gh0sty> will get fixed after shower ;)
Dec 19 09:50:37 <comawhite> how much will watching an avi cause on the battery?
Dec 19 09:50:54 <KotCzarny> much
Dec 19 09:50:55 <DocScrutinizer> quite a bit
Dec 19 09:51:10 <comawhite> aww nuts
Dec 19 09:51:17 <KotCzarny> if it's over 50% cpu it's going to dry out fast
Dec 19 09:51:36 <KotCzarny> run top in another window or any status bar cpu visualizer
Dec 19 09:52:06 <comawhite> i don't have the phone yet, probably won't until monday, fucking usps >.<
Dec 19 09:52:20 <KotCzarny> :)
Dec 19 09:52:56 <comawhite> have to wait the full 8 days >.<
Dec 19 09:54:44 <GNUtoo|laptop> hi, what program is responsible of that: http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Mode-selection.png
Dec 19 09:54:50 <GNUtoo|laptop> and what dbus calls?
Dec 19 09:56:31 <alterego> Use dbus monitor and find out yourself?
Dec 19 09:56:36 <lardman> how does (Extras) promotion work for packages that something relies on?
Dec 19 09:56:42 <lardman> i.e. deps
Dec 19 09:56:52 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: read -p "$*"  probably isn't what you want to do
Dec 19 09:57:04 <Gh0sty> well its just some old junk code i copied :p
Dec 19 09:57:11 <Gh0sty> i'll have to check later
Dec 19 09:57:18 <alterego> lardman, I thought deps were dragged in
Dec 19 09:57:18 <Gh0sty> just recovering my backup right now first :)
Dec 19 09:58:48 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: thats why its also a timed pastebin :p
Dec 19 09:58:57 <Gh0sty> the final version will be put on my blog ...
Dec 19 09:59:11 <Gh0sty> this one is a "fast first write"
Dec 19 09:59:31 <lardman> alterego: yes I think they are, I'm wondering whether deps can be upgraded and how they are then pulled in in their upgraded form (i.e. after the main package has gone in already)
Dec 19 09:59:41 <Gh0sty> also the motto why I run linux: script once, never do again :)
Dec 19 10:00:03 <Venemo> lardman: if a package is promoted to Extras, any lib that it depends on is also promoted
Dec 19 10:00:55 <lardman> and if you subsequently upgrade some of those deps
Dec 19 10:01:02 <lardman> I'm thinking of mBarcode, and the plugins
Dec 19 10:01:16 <lardman> how to release new versions of the plugins and for them to end up in Extras too
Dec 19 10:01:17 <RobbieThe1st> Gh0sty: Ain't -that- the truth
Dec 19 10:01:31 <lardman> I guess they need to be promoted explicitly
Dec 19 10:01:36 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Dec 19 10:01:42 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
Dec 19 10:01:44 <lardman> ok that's fine
Dec 19 10:02:29 <alterego> lardman: yeah, I'm pretty sure they do too :)
Dec 19 10:04:16 <lardman> ok that's fine, just thought I should check
Dec 19 10:15:00 <Gh0sty> damn I would never have realised I have 300M of software installed (at least thats the memory required to re-download my apps)
Dec 19 10:16:01 <Venemo> hehe
Dec 19 10:26:23 <RST38h> http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=apocalypse&year_start=1750&year_end=2008&corpus=5&smoothing=3
Dec 19 10:33:05 <lardman> http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=flood&year_start=1750&year_end=2008&corpus=5&smoothing=3
Dec 19 10:33:18 <lardman> presumably they don't think it will all end in drowning then
Dec 19 10:33:29 <DocScrutinizer> err, anybody claiming BL-5J is a LiPo _Polymer_ LiIon cell?
Dec 19 10:33:55 <RST38h> a moment
Dec 19 10:34:10 <RST38h> lardman:fire seems to experience a renessance
Dec 19 10:35:08 <lardman> :)
Dec 19 10:35:21 <RST38h> Try flood,fire,disease,earthquake,nuclear,antichrist,asteroid
Dec 19 10:35:29 <RST38h> Antichrist is a virtual no-show
Dec 19 10:35:51 <RST38h> So is the asteroid though
Dec 19 10:37:43 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: 300M? seems rather reasonably lean nowadays :-)
Dec 19 10:40:04 <Gh0sty> well not going to install the power kernel for starters and a couple others :P
Dec 19 10:40:15 <Gh0sty> first take a backup after the clean reinstall
Dec 19 10:40:22 <Gh0sty> then install power kernel again :)
Dec 19 10:55:35 <chadi> Hello world. I was going through the transitions.ini thread, and was applying a few to try, but at a certain point, I got stuck to one transition file, and even if I replace it with the original, or with any other transitions file, I don't see a difference anymore. What went wrong? I didn't apply any theme
Dec 19 11:02:15 <Venemo> chadi: maybe the new ini is wrong, thus HD falls back to the previous one
Dec 19 11:02:22 <Venemo> chadi: if you reboot, that may help too
Dec 19 11:02:53 <chadi> well, the point is that I am rolling back to the original one which is not wrong
Dec 19 11:03:11 <chadi> yeah bus is there a solution that does not involve rebooting?
Dec 19 11:05:12 <Venemo> open a root terminal
Dec 19 11:05:18 <Venemo> 'killall hildon-desktop'
Dec 19 11:07:40 <chadi> tried that, it messes up my phone application (no longer rotates)
Dec 19 11:13:44 <chadi> thank you anyway
Dec 19 11:13:48 <chadi> bye
Dec 19 11:18:22 <sivang> hello maemoers
Dec 19 11:20:11 <lardman> hi sivang
Dec 19 11:46:16 <DocScrutinizer> anybody looked closer at /sys/power/idcode ?
Dec 19 11:46:45 <sivang> hey lardman
Dec 19 11:46:55 <DocScrutinizer> might this be the true device serial# ?
Dec 19 11:47:11 * lardman wonders why gnuplot-nox is taking soooo long to unpack on his Ubuntu machine
Dec 19 11:47:47 <DocScrutinizer> IDCODE: 4b7ae02f
Dec 19 11:47:48 <DocScrutinizer> Production ID: 00000000 00000000 000000cc cafeb7ae
Dec 19 11:47:50 <DocScrutinizer> Die ID: 0c004012 040364fb 00000000 44f60004
Dec 19 11:49:51 * lardman is forced to reboot and use MATLAB as gnuplot is holding up installing Octave
Dec 19 11:49:53 <lardman> bbl
Dec 19 12:13:39 <DocScrutinizer> sunday game: do a `cat /sys/power/idcode|grep Die` and post here :-)
Dec 19 12:14:07 <DocScrutinizer> Die ID: 18005014 040361c2 00000000 129e0004
Dec 19 12:14:21 <jacekowski> IDCODE: 4b7ae02f
Dec 19 12:14:21 <jacekowski> Production ID: 00000000 00000000 000000cc cafeb7ae
Dec 19 12:14:21 <jacekowski> Die ID: 0f01f00f 04036abf 00000000 4e380004
Dec 19 12:14:47 <DocScrutinizer> and
Dec 19 12:14:49 <DocScrutinizer> Die ID: 0c004012 040364fb 00000000 44f60004
Dec 19 12:15:43 <DocScrutinizer> IDCODE and Production ID seem always the same
Dec 19 12:16:35 <DocScrutinizer> we got already 4 Die IDs though now
Dec 19 12:16:38 <MohammadAG> Die ID: 0101701d 04036817 00000000 232c0004
Dec 19 12:16:43 <DocScrutinizer> 5
Dec 19 12:17:43 * noobmonk3y waves
Dec 19 12:17:45 <noobmonk3y> lo alls
Dec 19 12:17:50 <DocScrutinizer> lo noobmonk3y
Dec 19 12:17:59 <noobmonk3y> hey doc :) - having a good wkend?
Dec 19 12:18:07 <DocScrutinizer> HC needs to learn to show Die ID :-D
Dec 19 12:18:13 <noobmonk3y> lol!
Dec 19 12:18:15 <noobmonk3y> whats a die id?
Dec 19 12:18:27 <noobmonk3y> lo Venemo
Dec 19 12:18:29 <DocScrutinizer> obviously a serial# of some chip Die
Dec 19 12:18:36 <Venemo> hey noobmonk3y
Dec 19 12:18:40 <MohammadAG> hey noobmonk3y
Dec 19 12:18:50 <noobmonk3y> why is it whenever i hear Die, i think of the Simpsons... "Die Bart Die"
Dec 19 12:18:54 <noobmonk3y> hey Mo :0
Dec 19 12:19:30 * MohammadAG remembers Die from germany
Dec 19 12:19:47 <MohammadAG> when I was there, all ads had Die in them
Dec 19 12:20:04 <Venemo> that's because Germans want you to die
Dec 19 12:20:08 <Venemo> hehe
Dec 19 12:20:18 <DocScrutinizer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_(integrated_circuit)
Dec 19 12:20:21 <Venemo> in reality, 'die' is a pronoun in German :)
Dec 19 12:20:33 <MohammadAG> the i think
Dec 19 12:20:41 <Gh0sty> oh btw you might know if it's true DocScrutinizer ... someone told me that if you hook n900 up to a pc and not pick storage or pc suite mode (so just tap next to the menu) it will only charge at 100mA in stead of 500mA if you pick either?
Dec 19 12:20:44 <DocScrutinizer> our beer is frequently "hell"
Dec 19 12:21:17 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: not sure about it
Dec 19 12:21:31 <Gh0sty> he got that from a guy working at nokia itself
Dec 19 12:21:41 <Gh0sty> but perhaps thats been fixed by pr 1.2 or 1.3
Dec 19 12:21:51 <Gh0sty> i got the advice at the 1.1 times ... :p
Dec 19 12:21:53 <DocScrutinizer> you can find out easily, by watching the actual charge current flowing into the batery: bq27200.sh
Dec 19 12:22:12 <Gh0sty> where is that script ? :/
Dec 19 12:24:34 <DocScrutinizer> dunno if ShadowJK wants to publish the URL
Dec 19 12:25:32 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: you should invoke that script via ssh over wlan, and lock your screen
Dec 19 12:25:57 <DocScrutinizer> otherwise too much of the 500mA expected will go into system to power backlight etc
Dec 19 12:26:16 <Gh0sty> ok
Dec 19 12:26:47 <DocScrutinizer> invoke with parameter 10, to get continuous listing
Dec 19 12:28:34 <DocScrutinizer> mA col, - is discharge
Dec 19 12:29:18 <DocScrutinizer> TTE is Time To Empty for cell, TTF corresponding to charge-complete
Dec 19 12:29:24 <DocScrutinizer> minutes
Dec 19 12:30:20 <DocScrutinizer> RSOC are % of capacity left, as seen by battery gauge chip - sometimes this differs largely from what bme thinks it is
Dec 19 12:31:31 <DocScrutinizer> the mV and mA are rather correct anyway
Dec 19 12:31:44 <MohammadAG> bme is crap
Dec 19 12:31:52 <MohammadAG> where's the script again?
Dec 19 12:32:03 <DocScrutinizer> a full battery has >4000mV, an almost empty one <3600
Dec 19 12:32:28 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I expect the value given out by the script to be less than bme right?
Dec 19 12:32:39 <DocScrutinizer> depends
Dec 19 12:33:22 <DocScrutinizer> when the chip got out of sync, e.g. by swapping battery, then it can have random bogus numbers for all those calculated values
Dec 19 12:34:02 <DocScrutinizer> this chip is supposed to be mounted to battery cell, not inside the device
Dec 19 12:35:20 <MohammadAG> LOL I restarted bme
Dec 19 12:35:27 <MohammadAG> battery went from full to red
Dec 19 12:35:33 <DocScrutinizer> normal
Dec 19 12:35:49 <DocScrutinizer> bme is nuts
Dec 19 12:36:28 <DocScrutinizer> bme even writes shit to CAL - go figure
Dec 19 12:36:28 <crashanddie_> bme is the perfect example of an app that should have received tons of unit testing and robustness checking, but didn't.
Dec 19 12:39:14 <alterego> crashanddie_: do you know that for a fact?
Dec 19 12:45:15 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: the battery chip is a chip designed to be part of a battery pack?
Dec 19 12:45:19 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, why is the browser non-composited by hildon?
Dec 19 12:45:25 <Scorcerer> is it possible to install new protocol to the bullitin communicator on N900 ?
Dec 19 12:45:32 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: um
Dec 19 12:45:41 <timeless_mbp> you do realize you're asking about code that's 3 years dead, right?
Dec 19 12:45:48 <BCMM> Scorcerer: you mean the conversations app?
Dec 19 12:45:58 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: yes
Dec 19 12:45:59 <Scorcerer> i think so
Dec 19 12:46:00 <timeless_mbp> Scorcerer: there are only 20 or so such available for download in extras
Dec 19 12:46:00 <BCMM> Scorcerer: it is indeed
Dec 19 12:46:02 <MohammadAG> _HILDON_NON_COMPOSITED_WINDOW
Dec 19 12:46:14 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: must i repeat myself?
Dec 19 12:46:23 <BCMM> Scorcerer: the conversations app is the thing that does SMS, skype IM, jabber and so on
Dec 19 12:46:31 <MohammadAG> Yes, I do realize that
Dec 19 12:46:35 <MohammadAG> does it matter?
Dec 19 12:46:44 <Scorcerer> that was what i've been looking for, thanks
Dec 19 12:47:03 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: a quick search shows that using _HILDON_NON_COMPOSITED_WINDOW gives you a perf win
Dec 19 12:47:10 <timeless_mbp> because it tells the window manager to stop screwing with you
Dec 19 12:47:17 <timeless_mbp> given that browsers need to not be screwed with
Dec 19 12:47:20 <timeless_mbp> it makes sense
Dec 19 12:47:29 <BCMM> MohammadAG: does that mean that the batteries themselves have no built-in overcharge protection and so on?
Dec 19 12:47:47 <BCMM> (this would influence how scared I am by 3rd party battery chargers)
Dec 19 12:47:51 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, why does it to be not "screwed" with?
Dec 19 12:48:13 * timeless_mbp sends MohammadAG to an English school
Dec 19 12:48:26 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: why do you ask MohammadAG ?
Dec 19 12:48:29 <timeless_mbp> please come back when you can phrase that in the form of a grammatically correct sentence
Dec 19 12:48:35 * timeless_mbp can't parse it
Dec 19 12:48:48 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I'm not sure
Dec 19 12:48:59 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: compositing adds cpu overhead and copies and what not
Dec 19 12:49:06 <timeless_mbp> the browser needs to be responsive
Dec 19 12:49:10 <timeless_mbp> and needs to paint  fast
Dec 19 12:50:49 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: afaik for EU a protection chip is mandatory
Dec 19 12:51:03 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: bq27200 is no protection chip though
Dec 19 12:54:00 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: it's no
Dec 19 12:54:02 <jacekowski> not*
Dec 19 12:54:11 <jacekowski> only thing that is mandatory is that battery will not explode
Dec 19 12:54:17 <jacekowski> they don't care how it's done
Dec 19 12:54:20 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, yes
Dec 19 12:54:46 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, if you're interested in details: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf for a nice example
Dec 19 12:57:05 <timeless_mbp> grr
Dec 19 12:57:09 * timeless_mbp kicks acrobat reader
Dec 19 12:57:19 <timeless_mbp> it replaced my perfectly working builtin pdf reader
Dec 19 12:57:20 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: use foxit reader
Dec 19 12:57:30 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: does it run on osx?
Dec 19 12:57:41 <jacekowski> dunno
Dec 19 12:57:43 <jacekowski> probably yes
Dec 19 12:57:53 <jacekowski> hmm, no
Dec 19 12:58:22 <BCMM> "use foxit reader" - nah, it's simpler than that: don't use adobe reader
Dec 19 12:58:51 <ShadowJK> for UL certification the battery needs to be part of a system with under/overcharge protection afaik
Dec 19 12:58:55 <BCMM> nothing else sucks to a comparable extent
Dec 19 13:00:31 <RST38h> http://pics.livejournal.com/popgapon/pic/00098x7s
Dec 19 13:01:32 <timeless_mbp> BCMM: sadly my web browsers are stupid
Dec 19 13:01:38 <timeless_mbp> so 'don't use adobe' is hard
Dec 19 13:02:02 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, heh, 4.28 overcharge seems low and 2.3 overdischarge threshold seems very low :)
Dec 19 13:02:40 * ShadowJK remembers back when you could tell netscape what program to use to view pdf files :-(
Dec 19 13:02:56 <timeless_mbp> CAUTION
Dec 19 13:02:56 <timeless_mbp> ● Do not use the battery in other than the following conditions. Otherwise, the battery might cause heat generation, damage.
Dec 19 13:02:56 <timeless_mbp> Charge: 0°C ~ +45°
Dec 19 13:03:10 <RST38h> still can, no?
Dec 19 13:03:13 <timeless_mbp> so, the n900 shouldn't be used in finland for 8-10 months of the year?
Dec 19 13:03:45 <SwedeMike> do you regularily charge it in cold?
Dec 19 13:03:47 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: see page 65
Dec 19 13:04:47 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: 5.2 Required Protection Circuit
Dec 19 13:11:09 <crashanddie_> MohammadAG: how's the media player going?
Dec 19 13:11:18 <jacekowski> mohammedia
Dec 19 13:11:23 <crashanddie_> MohammadAG: sorry I haven't been able to check up much on progress, been quite busy?
Dec 19 13:11:47 <crashanddie_> s/busy?/fucking busy!/
Dec 19 13:11:47 <infobot> crashanddie_ meant: MohammadAG: sorry I haven't been able to check up much on progress, been quite fucking busy!
Dec 19 13:12:51 * ShadowJK forgets exactly at what voltage Li-Ion starts degrading badly
Dec 19 13:13:00 <ShadowJK> but iirc it's right around 2.3?
Dec 19 13:13:19 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: see 7.2.17, p.68 -> overcharge completely charged cell @ 4.5V for 2h: no fire, no smoke, no explosion
Dec 19 13:14:11 <ShadowJK> I'd like to see results of repetitive testing, not just one-shot tests :)
Dec 19 13:14:31 <ShadowJK> (as damage from overcharge and overdischarge is cumulative)
Dec 19 13:14:34 <jacekowski> it will just vent
Dec 19 13:14:42 <jacekowski> and stop working
Dec 19 13:14:45 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: after that test, there will be no further tests with this DUT :-P
Dec 19 13:15:07 <DocScrutinizer> only test left over: how to get rid of a killed LiIon
Dec 19 13:15:27 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: using that other phone as an example is kinda ironic
Dec 19 13:15:38 <timeless_mbp> given that people here were present when it decided to smoke
Dec 19 13:15:47 <timeless_mbp> my n900 contributed :)
Dec 19 13:15:56 <DocScrutinizer> BS, nothing smoked
Dec 19 13:16:08 <timeless_mbp> it did something
Dec 19 13:16:25 * timeless_mbp can't remember who was present
Dec 19 13:17:05 <DocScrutinizer> it got hot, as it is supposed to, until the charge pump feeding 500++mA to N900 switched down correctly, @ 120°C IIRC
Dec 19 13:17:13 <jacekowski> what would happen if you would apply 1kV onto that battery
Dec 19 13:17:32 <jacekowski> would it explode or not
Dec 19 13:17:44 <ShadowJK> the cool thing is that there was actually people who could tell if it was supposed to do thator not :D
Dec 19 13:18:40 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, kinda odd how no charge termination current is mentioned
Dec 19 13:18:52 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Dec 19 13:18:56 <DocScrutinizer> CC/CV
Dec 19 13:19:32 <DocScrutinizer> the "you mustn't keep it floating" was an 'inofficial' advice to me from cell manufs
Dec 19 13:20:07 <DocScrutinizer> and obviously Nokia bme designers didn't ever hear about that advice
Dec 19 13:20:11 <ShadowJK> I've never actually seen proper specs that didn't specify termination :)
Dec 19 13:20:28 <ShadowJK> No I think they did, they just failed at implementing it
Dec 19 13:20:34 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Dec 19 13:20:40 <DocScrutinizer> quite possible
Dec 19 13:21:27 <ShadowJK> or rather, the people who made the hardware didn't talk to the people who made bme who didn't talk to the people that made the usb code in kernel
Dec 19 13:21:53 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Dec 19 13:22:23 <DocScrutinizer> they had no DocScrutinizer to do that kind of diplomatic mission
Dec 19 13:23:19 <DocScrutinizer> actually most companies don't see the need for such a position
Dec 19 13:25:57 <ShadowJK> Somehow i get the impression it's kinda bad in the first place to have 4 people each working on their own tyre for the car and with no visibility into what the other 3 dudes are doing, and adding a fifth guy to run in betweem these guys seems like a band-aid fix :)
Dec 19 13:26:03 <zeltak> morning guys..been busy latley so havent had time to hang to much in the irc :) im having issues again with my n900
Dec 19 13:26:41 <luke-jr> Gh0sty: "ofcourse" nothing. all things *do* work in x86_64 (there is no such thing as x64), although idiot companies like Nokia refuse to provide the source required to exercise fair use
Dec 19 13:26:48 <zeltak> atfer i charge it at night it the morning its freezed. i cant do anything unless i take out the battery, it only happens after a ful nights charge..anyone encountered anything like this?
Dec 19 13:27:30 <ShadowJK> That sounds very strange. Haven't heard of anyone experiencing that
Dec 19 13:27:32 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: Actually, IIRC the newer CPUs have all "forgotten" 16-bit ;)
Dec 19 13:27:50 <luke-jr> and it's stupid to demand I install my OS twice (64-bit and 32-bit)
Dec 19 13:29:01 * luke-jr is glad he has a 64-bit flasher
Dec 19 13:29:25 <jacekowski> 64bit is a failure
Dec 19 13:29:36 <jacekowski> most of stuff i have don't work on 64bit windows
Dec 19 13:30:25 <luke-jr> jacekowski: that's a Windows fail
Dec 19 13:30:51 <luke-jr> and/or you just use crap
Dec 19 13:30:52 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: yes, some new CPUs emulate 16bit cmds when they run into them
Dec 19 13:31:17 <DocScrutinizer> throw exception and a lib is responsible to do the emulation
Dec 19 13:31:33 <luke-jr> that's not the CPU emulating
Dec 19 13:33:05 <Gh0sty> lol seriously?
Dec 19 13:33:20 <Gh0sty> but ok running still 16 bit stuff on a new computer ... makes no sense
Dec 19 13:33:26 <Gh0sty> unless for embedded development :p
Dec 19 13:33:56 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: it's not like 4 guys doing the same and not knowing of each other. It's more like the guy mountng the tyres tries to understand what the tyre manufacturer tells him about rubber vulcanization. They don't even talk the same language
Dec 19 13:34:04 <Gh0sty> couple of months ago tried to debug a problem with a pascal programm giving an error on an industrial pc which got upgraded by a desktop
Dec 19 13:34:17 <Gh0sty> for time calculation pascal uses cpu speed
Dec 19 13:34:28 <Gh0sty> and when your cpu is fast enough you get an overflow :P
Dec 19 13:34:47 <Gh0sty> its a known bug, there is even a patcher for it on the internet :)
Dec 19 13:35:12 <Gh0sty> crazy infact that they didnt count on the fact your cpu could get too fast :P
Dec 19 13:35:59 <Gh0sty> those industrial pcs are type 486 - p1 and the pc they replaced it with was a p3 700Mhz or something :)
Dec 19 13:36:12 <Gh0sty> lucky they still found such a fast pc with an isa slot ... :)
Dec 19 13:36:50 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: you need an ambassador who did rubber vulcanization *and* handling a impact wrench, to translate between them
Dec 19 13:38:59 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: especially sw-devels like to take assumptions about how hw works. They can't imagine it doesn't work like they think it _should_
Dec 19 13:39:35 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: and they never get the idea something could be done in hw that they can do in a friggin monster of sw system as well
Dec 19 13:39:40 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: see bme
Dec 19 13:41:30 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: see BT/Wlan coexistence
Dec 19 13:41:43 <ShadowJK> lol
Dec 19 13:41:58 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: see crippled driver for LP5523
Dec 19 13:42:34 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: see xprot
Dec 19 13:42:45 <ShadowJK> I think the biggest probkem with bluetooth is that, based on current progress, it will reach day to day usable stability in about 10 years after it's obsolete :)
Dec 19 13:42:56 <ShadowJK> bluetooth in general, not just n900 :)
Dec 19 13:45:04 <DocScrutinizer> otoh sometimes EE is blind to synergy effects coming from sw side. Example: ALS which is redundant to front camera
Dec 19 13:45:17 <DocScrutinizer> maybe, depending on specs of both
Dec 19 13:45:45 <ShadowJK> uh the camera probably uses enormous amounts of power :)
Dec 19 13:46:35 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, but the way ALS works now, it wouldn't matter too much, given the camera can power-up in 1ms, take one frame, and power-down
Dec 19 13:47:05 <DocScrutinizer> I've seen designs using frontcam as ALS
Dec 19 13:47:12 <ShadowJK> als has bigger range too :)
Dec 19 13:48:04 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, and they have a second sensor inside ALS to substract the IR from that too wide spectrum :-P
Dec 19 13:48:19 <ShadowJK> you even see digital cameras with ALS on same side as lens :)
Dec 19 13:48:24 <DocScrutinizer> or did you talk about LUX range
Dec 19 13:48:32 <ShadowJK> yeah lux range
Dec 19 13:48:38 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Dec 19 13:49:40 <DocScrutinizer> I think you got the picture anyway, no need to throw more examples at you
Dec 19 13:50:07 <DocScrutinizer> they are just examples after all, no comprehensive list of any kind
Dec 19 13:50:48 <ShadowJK> Speaking of cameras...
Dec 19 13:51:13 <ShadowJK> anyone thought about putting a small peltier element near the sensor?
Dec 19 13:51:57 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Dec 19 13:52:05 <DocScrutinizer> there are such camera designs
Dec 19 13:52:37 <DocScrutinizer> not in mobile phones though
Dec 19 13:52:43 <DocScrutinizer> for a good reason
Dec 19 13:53:29 <SpeedEvil> There is no need for cooling.
Dec 19 13:53:46 <DocScrutinizer> for ultra low noise you like to
Dec 19 13:53:47 <SpeedEvil> There are ambient temp sensors as found in some cameras that will do >>30 second exposures
Dec 19 13:53:55 <SpeedEvil> consumer cameras
Dec 19 13:54:00 <SpeedEvil> well - prosumer
Dec 19 13:54:38 <ShadowJK> oh I just noticed how noise free last year's new year's fireworks I videod on n900 was
Dec 19 13:54:58 <ShadowJK> and I remember it was like -35C that night :)
Dec 19 13:55:15 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: yeah, but that sat has some liquid helium in a tank, to cool down the sensor to ~0k :-D
Dec 19 13:55:53 <DocScrutinizer> K even
Dec 19 13:57:07 <SpeedEvil> yes - it matters if you're taking long exposures - and critically - have a CCD which has a readout noise in the low single photoelectrons.
Dec 19 13:57:30 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Dec 19 13:57:43 <SpeedEvil> If you're reading out at video rates - then the noise is huge - dozens or hundreds of photoelectrons.
Dec 19 13:58:27 <DocScrutinizer> bottomline: not really feasible for consumer electronics
Dec 19 13:58:55 <SpeedEvil> Well - there are integrally amplified chips - which are cool.
Dec 19 13:59:24 <SpeedEvil> http://www.phxatl.com/html/impactron_products.html TI's impactron series
Dec 19 13:59:37 <SpeedEvil> a solid-state electron-multiplier
Dec 19 14:00:05 <SpeedEvil> (stupidly expensive)
Dec 19 14:00:58 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: what's your Die ID? the one with coolest hex string number will win today's lottery :-D
Dec 19 14:01:26 <SpeedEvil> where?
Dec 19 14:01:53 <DocScrutinizer> /sys/power/idcode
Dec 19 14:02:13 <SpeedEvil> IDCODE: 4b7ae02f
Dec 19 14:02:21 <DocScrutinizer> yeahyeah
Dec 19 14:02:26 <DocScrutinizer> that one never changes
Dec 19 14:02:37 <SpeedEvil> Die ID: 10015019 040360df 00000000 35c20004
Dec 19 14:02:49 <SpeedEvil> Die ID: 0c006012 040364fb 00000000 38760004
Dec 19 14:03:11 <DocScrutinizer> meh, no leetspeak :-/
Dec 19 14:03:32 <SpeedEvil> this is the power supply chip ID?
Dec 19 14:03:35 <SpeedEvil> well - twl*
Dec 19 14:03:38 <DocScrutinizer> I guess so
Dec 19 14:03:46 <DocScrutinizer> GAIA twl4030
Dec 19 14:04:32 <DocScrutinizer> way better than IMEI :-P
Dec 19 14:04:46 <DocScrutinizer> (*hint* *hint*)
Dec 19 14:06:08 <DocScrutinizer> HEH! I also got a 040364fb
Dec 19 14:06:11 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Dec 19 14:06:33 <DocScrutinizer> Die ID: 0c004012 040364fb 00000000 44f60004
Dec 19 14:19:19 * RST38h being attacked by Turkish spammers
Dec 19 14:20:00 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-omap@vger.kernel.org/msg28405.html hmm, maybe it's SoC aka OMAP3430, not twl4030?
Dec 19 14:20:01 <RST38h> So, what are you all dying from tonight?
Dec 19 14:20:15 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: snow
Dec 19 14:20:25 <derf> Delicious foods.
Dec 19 14:20:31 <SpeedEvil> Or just general being pissed off.
Dec 19 14:21:34 <RST38h> snow - check. foods - check. bile - check.
Dec 19 14:21:47 <RST38h> Why the hellam I still alive? =)
Dec 19 14:21:59 <SpeedEvil> Maybe you are not.
Dec 19 14:22:03 <RST38h> True.
Dec 19 14:22:11 <derf> RST38h: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Dec 19 14:22:22 <MohammadAG> crashanddie, nicolai got the renderer working, it updates metadata and can play/pause or skip
Dec 19 14:22:25 <RST38h> badder, at least.
Dec 19 14:22:35 <MohammadAG> (pause actually stops for some reason, minor problem)
Dec 19 14:23:34 <MohammadAG> crashanddie, I also got Share via email and BT working, but we need Mafw Source support to populate the list
Dec 19 14:24:21 <MohammadAG> Oh and those things that alterego calls delegates would be nice :P
Dec 19 14:24:46 <RST38h> Mohammad: MediaPlayer+?
Dec 19 14:24:56 <MohammadAG> yeah
Dec 19 14:25:11 <RST38h> cooool
Dec 19 14:25:39 <MohammadAG> one more thing
Dec 19 14:26:07 <MohammadAG> starting any Qt application when the desktop is in portrait mode causes a segfault
Dec 19 14:26:23 <MohammadAG> to test it, do a sleep 10; nameofqtapp in terminal
Dec 19 14:26:33 <MohammadAG> then start the phone app and flip to portrait
Dec 19 14:26:38 <MohammadAG> see a segfault
Dec 19 14:26:59 <RST38h> oh
Dec 19 14:27:01 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, famous last words: x does y for some reason. Minor problem.
Dec 19 14:30:18 * alterego tries to think of a name for his new "accounts" package.
Dec 19 14:30:33 <MohammadAG> Mohaccounts?
Dec 19 14:30:40 <alterego> teeheehee
Dec 19 14:33:58 <SpeedEvil> alterego: MoNay.
Dec 19 14:34:42 <SpeedEvil> alterego: More seriously - what sort of accounts thing? I was looking for something slightly less trivial than 'siggy'
Dec 19 14:37:32 <alterego> SpeedEvil: well, it's a custom build web based accouting system for a specific company.
Dec 19 14:37:49 <alterego> To track their customers and status of customer accounts, also sends out automatic monthly/periodical invoices etc.
Dec 19 14:38:02 <SpeedEvil> Ah - I see.
Dec 19 14:38:16 <alterego> Or notifies a member of staff via email that an invoice is ready for print & postage.
Dec 19 14:38:32 <SpeedEvil> I'm looking for a personal finance solution.
Dec 19 14:38:55 <alterego> I just use gnumeric :)
Dec 19 14:40:03 <SpeedEvil> yeah - ideally I'd like something that worked sanely on the phone.
Dec 19 14:40:44 <alterego> I wonder if anyone does an online personal finance service.
Dec 19 14:41:06 <alterego> Those kinds of apps are generally lacking good quality on mobile devices.
Dec 19 14:41:21 <SpeedEvil> yeah,
Dec 19 14:41:22 <alterego> a "MeeGo Cash" app would be cool.
Dec 19 14:41:31 <alterego> I'll write it in my app ideas list :)
Dec 19 14:41:34 <SpeedEvil> I want something more than just chequebook.
Dec 19 14:41:55 <SpeedEvil> Able to cope with multiple accounts, and cash, and upcoming bills and payments.
Dec 19 14:41:59 <alterego> Sure, would be realy cool with OCR, you could use it to read in reciepts and graph your spending.
Dec 19 14:42:32 <alterego> Yeah, that would be cool. Also, budget management, so you can clearly see how much cash you've got left to spend (outside of bills)
Dec 19 14:42:38 <aep> alterego: s,on mobile devices,,
Dec 19 14:43:01 <alterego> And add "ghost" periodical budgets for say, bills that happen quarterly, but you need to set a bit aside each month.
Dec 19 14:43:07 <SpeedEvil> My ultimately ideal one would have a product database, so I can scan off a can of beans at home - hit 'trash', and it reduces my home stock of beans by one.
Dec 19 14:43:09 <Scorcerer> how (un)stable are applications in extras-testing ? i mean, with all those warnings that one should use only extras repository i'm not entirely sure i should use it, but on the other hand i'm using gentoo-unstable on my machines so little digging and ustability is normal for me..
Dec 19 14:43:21 <SpeedEvil> And adds it to a shopping list.
Dec 19 14:43:23 <alterego> SpeedEvil: that would be cool.
Dec 19 14:43:33 <SpeedEvil> Scorcerer: generally not
Dec 19 14:43:54 <SpeedEvil> Scorcerer: In general - they are fairly stable, and most instabilities can be remedied by uninstalling
Dec 19 14:43:56 <alterego> Even if it was as simple as, you scan the items and say what they are and how much they cost when you get home from a shop, then consecutive scans will know when you scan it :)
Dec 19 14:44:11 <SpeedEvil> alterego: yes
Dec 19 14:44:15 <Scorcerer> ah, so good enough for me :D thanks
Dec 19 14:44:17 <SpeedEvil> alterego: though added p2p goodness
Dec 19 14:44:33 <alterego> SpeedEvil: yeah, you mean host an online product db for people to upload/share to? :)
Dec 19 14:44:38 <SpeedEvil> Scorcerer: using the 'backup' application is not a bad idea - you may also drop your phone in the toilet
Dec 19 14:44:44 <SpeedEvil> alterego: yes.
Dec 19 14:44:50 <alterego> Yeah, I'd definitely do that too.
Dec 19 14:44:55 <SpeedEvil> alterego: Of course, this can lead to feature creep.
Dec 19 14:44:57 <alterego> Lets do this! :)
Dec 19 14:44:59 <Scorcerer> yea, we don't want that :P
Dec 19 14:45:34 <alterego> In fact, that'd make a nice xmas holiday project.
Dec 19 14:46:08 <SpeedEvil> http://www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/nutrition-calories/food/foxs/glacier-mints/
Dec 19 14:46:37 <SpeedEvil> for example - would be nice to have that info tied to the bacode, and exportable to a diet program
Dec 19 14:47:17 <alterego> Yeah, you've inspired me, it would be a damn good use of my "semantic core".
Dec 19 14:49:27 <GAN900> Nasty day to be at work.
Dec 19 14:49:34 <SpeedEvil> http://buddi.digitalcave.ca/faq.jsp - was sort-of-interesting, but diddn't really do enough
Dec 19 14:50:11 <SpeedEvil> I couldn't get it to show me my upcoming balance taking into account already entered bill due dates and income - which is a pretty core feature
Dec 19 14:53:46 <alterego> Heh
Dec 19 14:54:28 <alterego> Would you like to jot down features you'd like to see? and I'll start thinking about the core.
Dec 19 14:54:51 <alterego> I should be able to start hacking on it next week :)
Dec 19 14:54:59 <alterego> Anyhow, gotta go to the shop now.
Dec 19 14:55:02 <alterego> bbbl
Dec 19 14:57:15 <RST38h> Great news for Alien franchise purists, as conceptual artist H.R. Giger has been confirmed as a contributor to the prequel that Ridley Scott is set to begin shooting in February.
Dec 19 14:59:43 <DocScrutinizer> muhaha, first all chinese spam mail :-P
Dec 19 15:00:51 <DocScrutinizer> thanks to my ex-colleagues of Taipei my spammassassin thinks this is something possibly worth reading X-P
Dec 19 15:21:04 <MohammadAG> and once again, a nice youtube application is made worse by custom widgets to play the video
Dec 19 15:23:12 <Venemo> hi again
Dec 19 15:25:58 <Tokmob> hello
Dec 19 15:26:14 <Venemo> hi Tokmob
Dec 19 15:26:26 <Tokmob> could someone help with
Dec 19 15:26:52 <Tokmob> i want to access my win 7 shared files via wlan
Dec 19 15:27:14 <Tokmob> and dont know how
Dec 19 15:27:46 <Tokmob> have tried wizard mounter with no results
Dec 19 15:27:55 <Tokmob> but im a noobie
Dec 19 15:29:28 <Tokmob> please :)
Dec 19 15:30:30 <Tokmob> :(
Dec 19 16:01:17 <DokterW> Hi. Having some issues with customising the default menu. I found the menu file: ~/menus/hildon.menu with the following permissions: 644. I changed them to: 666. Tried to make some changes, but changes didn't get saved and the file has now the old permissions: 644. Any ideas?
Dec 19 16:03:26 <Tok> while using wizard mounter
Dec 19 16:03:27 <Tok> mount: mounting //10.0.0.4/Music /media/ Remote_Filesystems/Music@10.0.0.4 failed: Permission denied
Dec 19 16:03:30 <Tok> any ideas?
Dec 19 16:04:33 <tank-man> wizard mounter mounts my shares in my home/doc directory
Dec 19 16:05:03 <tank-man> maybe it is talking about the permissions on "/media" directory ?
Dec 19 16:05:47 <Tok> i'm not sure if i know what you mean
Dec 19 16:07:53 <mlpug> DokterW, maybe it dislikes 666 as its the "devils figure". could it be file ownership issue?
Dec 19 16:08:15 <tank-man> Tok, can you see the windows shares from a linux desktop ?
Dec 19 16:08:24 <tank-man> or even a windows desktop
Dec 19 16:09:01 <SpeedEvil> alterego: http://wiki.maemo.org/User_talk:Speedevil/accounts
Dec 19 16:09:46 <Tok> tank-man, from what desktop?
Dec 19 16:10:31 <tank-man> from a differnt pc, can you see the windows shares?
Dec 19 16:10:41 <Tok> yes
Dec 19 16:10:45 <Tok> from my laptop yeah
Dec 19 16:11:07 <Tok> win7 on it
Dec 19 16:11:38 <joppu> Tok: are you using homegroup?
Dec 19 16:11:49 <Tok> yes
Dec 19 16:11:53 <joppu> check "advanced sharing settings"
Dec 19 16:11:59 <DokterW> mlpug: Hmmm... Haven't tried that yet. I'll give it a go. Thanks.
Dec 19 16:12:09 <RST38h> "A stationary black cylindrical creature camouflaged as a tree. Rammed into all moving objects at roughly 70 meters per second."
Dec 19 16:12:45 <Tok> joppu any ideas?
Dec 19 16:12:54 <Tok> im in the advanced sharing settings now
Dec 19 16:13:41 <DokterW> mlpug: Most files and folders have the owner user:users, but I've also seen user:root. Might give that a go.
Dec 19 16:16:21 <DokterW> mlpug: Nope. Didn't work. :(
Dec 19 16:23:39 <joppu> Tok: do you have password protected sharing on?
Dec 19 16:24:00 <tank-man> lol
Dec 19 16:24:16 <tank-man> tok, did you enter a username and password in wizard mounter?
Dec 19 16:26:33 <lardman> urgh, I thought I'd fixed my scanning from an image, but apparently not :(
Dec 19 16:27:28 <Tokz> i did yes
Dec 19 16:27:44 <Tokz> windows user username and password?
Dec 19 16:28:21 <tank-man> yes, the windows user name and password
Dec 19 16:28:39 <Tokz> yes that's what i've done
Dec 19 16:29:08 <Tokz> still the same error
Dec 19 16:31:15 <Tokz> mount: mounting //10.0.0.4/Music /media/ Remote_Filesystems/Music@10.0.0.4 failed: Permission denied
Dec 19 16:31:24 <Tokz> what does that /media/ mean?
Dec 19 16:32:26 <tank-man> that is the mount point it is trying to use i think
Dec 19 16:32:45 <Tokz> okay
Dec 19 16:33:57 <Macer> hm
Dec 19 16:34:21 <Macer> what does meego have that maemo 5 doesn't? i mean. is it simply and updated ui?
Dec 19 16:34:36 <Macer> and a newer kernel?
Dec 19 16:35:24 <RST38h> It has support from major industrial leaders!
Dec 19 16:35:30 <Macer> i am just curious because i figured the main thing required by an n900 was a kernel and its modules to get all the hardware working
Dec 19 16:35:41 <Macer> so why not just replace the ui? :)
Dec 19 16:36:00 <Macer> using the current maemo 5 kernel and modules
Dec 19 16:36:22 <Macer> can't you just build stuff against the current working kernel and modules and create a new ui
Dec 19 16:37:04 <Macer> i am only curious because getting all the hardware working on the n900 seems to be the biggest hurdle for nitdroid and meego
Dec 19 16:38:55 <Macer> but all the hardware works in maemo5 so why not just use that base and build off that? all the other stuff like qt already "works" for maemo5
Dec 19 16:39:26 <RST38h> Macer: Because Maemo5 kernel has no support from major industrial leaders?
Dec 19 16:39:42 <Macer> lmao
Dec 19 16:39:45 <tank-man> isnt that like running linux in a windows with a virtual machine?
Dec 19 16:39:55 <jacekowski>  Macer it's linux thing
Dec 19 16:40:09 <jacekowski> Macer: incompatibilities between different versions
Dec 19 16:40:13 <Tokz> i getting really pissed off right now
Dec 19 16:40:19 <Tokz> i want to get that file sharing working =(
Dec 19 16:40:34 <Macer> versions of what? :) just build against the working kernel heh
Dec 19 16:40:55 <Macer> it is confusing. maybe because i am not a dev
Dec 19 16:41:12 <Macer> but i have had some boxes run a kernel for many years without problems
Dec 19 16:41:26 <Macer> even when installing different WMs
Dec 19 16:44:15 <DocScrutinizer> pffff, I'm waiting for the next undo of an undo of an undo of an undo.... Maybe takes a while til MohammadAG notices the changes on ~flashing page
Dec 19 16:44:49 <DocScrutinizer> ~flashing
Dec 19 16:44:49 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Dec 19 16:45:06 <DocScrutinizer> : a good example why wiki sometimes does NOT work
Dec 19 16:52:34 <Macer> haha
Dec 19 16:53:35 <Macer> well. found out why one of my boxes went down. guess there was a damn screw on the mboard
Dec 19 16:53:41 <Macer> must have shorted it
Dec 19 16:54:07 <Macer> at least it was a really old box :) guess i can rape the parts and make something with them
Dec 19 17:06:37 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, a bird cage
Dec 19 17:07:00 <woodong50_______>  jo
Dec 19 17:07:21 <woodong50_______> hi
Dec 19 17:07:52 <Venemo> hey
Dec 19 17:11:00 <dotblank> Is http://repository.maemo.org running REALLY slow?
Dec 19 17:15:13 <Triscar0> what prog is a "must have" for n900 ? :D
Dec 19 17:15:41 <DocScrutinizer> hi dos1
Dec 19 17:16:49 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: hi!
Dec 19 17:17:26 <DocScrutinizer> ~xyawn
Dec 19 17:17:26 <infobot> from memory, xyawn is sleep
Dec 19 17:17:32 <DocScrutinizer> nah!
Dec 19 17:17:36 <DocScrutinizer> rethink!
Dec 19 17:17:38 <DocScrutinizer> ~xyawn
Dec 19 17:17:39 <infobot> good coffee
Dec 19 17:17:43 <DocScrutinizer> k, better
Dec 19 17:20:03 <Venemo> Triscar0: one such a prog is the game called Puzzle Master
Dec 19 17:22:17 <RST38h> (Puzzle Master is written by Venemo)
Dec 19 17:24:07 <Triscar0> hehe okok
Dec 19 17:25:02 <DocScrutinizer> puzzlemaster is awesome
Dec 19 17:25:46 <DocScrutinizer> Triscar0: your question is a bit to general
Dec 19 17:26:12 <Triscar0> is there a site where i can browse apps ?
Dec 19 17:26:48 <DocScrutinizer> errr, yes?
Dec 19 17:27:33 <RST38h> and there is also google.com,too
Dec 19 17:27:51 <DocScrutinizer> http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/
Dec 19 17:31:02 <nox-> moin
Dec 19 17:36:56 <DocScrutinizer> moin
Dec 19 17:42:21 <nox-> moin DocScrutinizer
Dec 19 17:46:53 <DocScrutinizer> nox-: pull your lottery ticket! `cat /sys/power/idcode|grep Die`  -  the most leet hex value will earn a FRUBMARFZ
Dec 19 17:48:55 <dotblank> ok now this is odd
Dec 19 17:49:06 <DocScrutinizer> 1
Dec 19 17:49:12 <DocScrutinizer> and this is even
Dec 19 17:49:13 <dotblank> gdk pixbuff exists in my sdk
Dec 19 17:49:13 <DocScrutinizer> 0
Dec 19 17:49:24 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, getting silly
Dec 19 17:49:34 <dotblank> I run ./gdk-pixbuf-csource
Dec 19 17:49:46 <dotblank> and I get bash: ./gdk-pixbuf-csource: No such file or directory
Dec 19 17:50:08 <dotblank> cat ./gdk-pixbuf-csource
Dec 19 17:50:08 <dotblank> ELF


(
t�44(
pHH�44�4�


4�4�

��TT�
TT
T
�
�
�``
`


H
H�H�  Q�td
Dec 19 17:50:19 <dotblank> so the file exists......
Dec 19 17:50:19 <DocScrutinizer> WTF??
Dec 19 17:50:27 <nox-> Die ID: 1001501b 04037d20 00000000 79b40004
Dec 19 17:50:29 <nox-> dotblank, ldd it
Dec 19 17:50:40 <nox-> hm ok if maemo has ldd...
Dec 19 17:50:49 <dotblank> that works
Dec 19 17:50:57 <DocScrutinizer> file should suffice
Dec 19 17:51:01 <nox-> no `not found'?
Dec 19 17:51:06 <dotblank> yea
Dec 19 17:51:10 <nox-> hm
Dec 19 17:51:12 <dotblank> but bash is messed up or something
Dec 19 17:51:19 <dotblank> im in the arm sbox btw
Dec 19 17:51:25 <DocScrutinizer> probably a x86 ELF
Dec 19 17:51:28 <nox-> ah
Dec 19 17:51:57 <dotblank> What package has that... hmm
Dec 19 17:52:03 <dotblank> need an arm version of it
Dec 19 17:52:17 <DocScrutinizer> file ./gdk-pixbuf-csource
Dec 19 17:52:35 <dotblank> ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
Dec 19 17:52:39 <dotblank> lol it is arm
Dec 19 17:53:16 <nox-> if you're on pc wont you need qemu-arm to run that?
Dec 19 17:53:44 <dotblank> well im in the sbox...
Dec 19 17:53:54 <Venemo> hi again
Dec 19 17:54:03 <DocScrutinizer> hello again
Dec 19 17:54:30 <dotblank> do I also need to install that in the x86 target
Dec 19 17:54:50 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: I was able to solve the problem by manually setting an IP address. seems that for some reason the driver wasn't able to request one with DHCP
Dec 19 17:55:12 <dotblank> ok so I switched to the x86 target and it exists
Dec 19 17:55:36 <dotblank> why won't bash run that elf? and in fact say it doesn't even exist
Dec 19 17:55:47 <DocScrutinizer> could somebody please toss the cmd that hides chan-join-quit, on e.g. irssi? sth like /conference-mode on
Dec 19 17:56:08 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: weird
Dec 19 17:56:29 <DocScrutinizer> the syslog clearly said "error in libcryptfoobar"
Dec 19 17:56:38 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: weird indeed.
Dec 19 17:57:09 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: you're sure you not accidentally associated to neighbour's AP?
Dec 19 17:57:15 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: the dmesg is still full of "rtllib_rx_decrypt: decrypt frame error"
Dec 19 17:57:19 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: I'm sure :)
Dec 19 17:57:49 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: at Budapest I do connect to a neighbours AP (unprotected wifi), but that goes without issue :P
Dec 19 17:58:10 <Venemo> anyway, problem solved.
Dec 19 17:58:51 <nox-> dotblank, you may have some `exec arm binaries with qemu-arm' setup thats messed up (and that i forgot the name of)
Dec 19 18:01:20 <dotblank> lol there is no libgdk-pixbuff
Dec 19 18:01:34 <dotblank> in the maemo package repos
Dec 19 18:42:05 <macmaN> anybody know who to talk at nokia to to get osso-media-player open sourced? :)
Dec 19 18:42:08 <macmaN> talk to*
Dec 19 18:42:19 <macmaN> i wonder why it isnt
Dec 19 18:42:41 <alterego> What's the point?
Dec 19 18:42:58 <alterego> Anyway, a few people are currently writing a clone of the media player.
Dec 19 18:43:01 <alterego> Which is better, :)
Dec 19 18:43:26 <javispedro> alterego: UNLESS you like Gtk+ ;)
Dec 19 18:43:29 <javispedro> morning
Dec 19 18:43:34 <macmaN> well i happen to like osso quite well and would simply like to patch a few things
Dec 19 18:44:41 <javispedro> macmaN: unfortunately it's not going to happen at this point
Dec 19 18:45:00 <javispedro> unless you have a million dollars..
Dec 19 18:45:52 <macmaN> best bet is meego huh
Dec 19 18:46:03 <SpeedEvil> alterego: http://wiki.maemo.org/User_talk:Speedevil/accounts
Dec 19 18:46:38 <macmaN> i'd like to get some life out of this n900 until meego actually arrives
Dec 19 18:46:42 <macmaN> some more*
Dec 19 18:47:13 <DocW> we can only hope that vlc gets better.
Dec 19 18:47:14 <alterego> SpeedEvil: thanks :)
Dec 19 18:47:47 <SpeedEvil> alterego: There are so many shiny bits possible - but some are probably way out of the scope of an initial porject
Dec 19 18:47:50 <alterego> SpeedEvil: sorry, what was supposed to be a simple trip to the shop turned into a massive winter snow adventure because I locked myself out of my flat.
Dec 19 18:47:57 <alterego> Yeah
Dec 19 18:48:02 <SpeedEvil> Snow is fun!
Dec 19 18:48:04 <alterego> Still, feature wishlists are always good.
Dec 19 18:48:25 <SpeedEvil> I've just been clearing snow off my poly-tunnel by moonlight.
Dec 19 18:48:39 <SpeedEvil> As I've been feeling lousy today, and diddn't get up till recently
Dec 19 18:48:45 <alterego> Auto cash/coin count is a bit, well, out there ;)
Dec 19 18:49:10 <SpeedEvil> yes - that was simply random ideas.
Dec 19 18:49:40 <alterego> :)
Dec 19 18:49:41 <SpeedEvil> Spread cash out on table, no coin overlapping, and just scan n900 over it.
Dec 19 18:49:44 <alterego> Would be cool.
Dec 19 18:49:49 <SpeedEvil> It's a pretty simpe in principle OCR task
Dec 19 18:49:54 <alterego> But there are lots of different currencies etc.
Dec 19 18:50:03 <alterego> So much to take into account.
Dec 19 18:50:21 <SpeedEvil> yeah - I was assuming it'd only work for one currency at a time
Dec 19 18:50:25 <alterego> What if you could use the touch screens pressure sensitivity to weigh your money :D
Dec 19 18:50:36 * alterego chuckles
Dec 19 18:50:45 <SpeedEvil> The aim would be to roughly count your cash, not to identify numismatic rarities in your pockets.
Dec 19 18:51:01 <alterego> :)
Dec 19 18:51:41 <SpeedEvil> though I'd love to fit one of those to vending machines.
Dec 19 18:56:24 <GAN900> SpeedEvil, hehe, that one's been waiting in the Rolsdex for a while, hasn't it? *g*
Dec 19 18:56:37 <SpeedEvil> ?
Dec 19 18:56:38 <bernie> since yesterday, gstreamer is whacked on my n900. no sound even during phonecalls. any idea?
Dec 19 18:56:52 <bernie> I rebooted a couple of times, but no effect. I'm running fremantle 1.3
Dec 19 18:56:57 <SpeedEvil> Sound on my n900 has broken - pulseaudio won't start
Dec 19 18:57:01 <SpeedEvil> I'm on 1.2 here
Dec 19 18:57:08 <SpeedEvil> I haven't yet investigated it
Dec 19 18:57:41 <GAN900> SpeedEvil, "numismatic rarities in your pockets"
Dec 19 18:58:02 <SpeedEvil> ah
Dec 19 18:59:17 <bernie> SpeedEvil: does the mediaplayer say "format not supported" when trying to play any mp3?
Dec 19 19:02:13 <SpeedEvil> it plays no sound at all
Dec 19 19:02:17 <SpeedEvil> over the whole device
Dec 19 19:02:22 <SpeedEvil> pulseaudio does not start
Dec 19 19:03:31 <javispedro> SpeedEvil: open root terminal and type something like "pulseaudio --system"
Dec 19 19:03:38 <javispedro> watch stdlog+stderr
Dec 19 19:04:11 <SpeedEvil> ****************** INIT DONE ************* E: voice-sidetone.c: Cannot open /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_enable
Dec 19 19:04:12 <SpeedEvil>  then it dies
Dec 19 19:04:24 <SpeedEvil> with a segfault
Dec 19 19:04:29 <SpeedEvil> It works with power kernel
Dec 19 19:04:42 <SpeedEvil> I have no idea - I've had no time to diagnose
Dec 19 19:04:43 <javispedro> iirc you might need to chmod some /sys entries
Dec 19 19:04:49 <javispedro> check /etc/event.d/pulseaudio
Dec 19 19:05:39 <SpeedEvil> ah - chmod fixed that error - but it still segs
Dec 19 19:06:49 <javispedro> well, if you have time, point gdb to it...
Dec 19 19:07:07 <javispedro> or look for the debug-level cmd line parameter
Dec 19 19:07:17 <javispedro> or log-level, not really remember.
Dec 19 19:07:18 <DocScrutinizer> ??
Dec 19 19:07:37 <DocScrutinizer> aah, nvm
Dec 19 19:08:05 <SpeedEvil> I'm robably just going to flash it
Dec 19 19:08:30 <DocScrutinizer> never wase a steady bug
Dec 19 19:08:35 <DocScrutinizer> waste*
Dec 19 19:09:18 <DocScrutinizer> strace probably just fine
Dec 19 19:10:01 <DocScrutinizer> gdb bt even better
Dec 19 19:12:24 <SpeedEvil> I completely agree - in principle.
Dec 19 19:13:32 <DocScrutinizer> at very least you could keep a coredump
Dec 19 19:15:02 <SpeedEvil> But I'm in the middle of making presents for christmas, and I'd like music while I'm doing it.
Dec 19 19:15:05 <SpeedEvil> Program received signal SIG57, Real-time event 57.
Dec 19 19:15:05 <SpeedEvil> 0x40399798 in poll () from /lib/libc.so.6
Dec 19 19:15:05 <SpeedEvil> 0x40399798 <poll+104>:	cmn	r0, #4096	; 0x1000
Dec 19 19:15:05 <SpeedEvil> (gdb) c
Dec 19 19:15:09 <SpeedEvil> does not enlighten
Dec 19 19:16:03 <javispedro> yeah, that should not terminate it -- you can prevent the rt signals from breaking into gdb but don't remember how
Dec 19 19:16:19 <javispedro> (from the top of my head)
Dec 19 19:16:24 <SpeedEvil> well - it's at the same point it cores.
Dec 19 19:16:28 <SpeedEvil> or moments after
Dec 19 19:16:52 <javispedro> hu
Dec 19 19:16:52 <javispedro> m
Dec 19 19:17:28 * javispedro agrees with DocS but thinks this being pr1.2 will make it harder to reproduce/debug
Dec 19 19:17:32 <RST38h> moo javispedro
Dec 19 19:17:37 <nox-> handle SIGfoo nostop
Dec 19 19:17:38 <nox-> iirc
Dec 19 19:17:40 <javispedro> hey RST38h
Dec 19 19:17:40 <SpeedEvil> exactly
Dec 19 19:17:58 <SpeedEvil> ~flashing
Dec 19 19:17:58 <infobot> flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Dec 19 19:18:12 <SpeedEvil> And I have no idea why I'm not being offered 1.3
Dec 19 19:19:34 <javispedro> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YrfMnYORL._SS500_.jpg
Dec 19 19:19:41 <javispedro> the future, today!
Dec 19 19:19:48 <weeedar> hey
Dec 19 19:20:49 <weeedar> is there a way to get this working on n900?
Dec 19 19:21:02 <weeedar> psi-im.garage.maemo.org/
Dec 19 19:22:39 <weeedar> i tried installing via .deb and just got packet incompatible
Dec 19 19:24:44 <SpeedEvil> Were the problems with crhome ever fixed?
Dec 19 19:24:45 <SpeedEvil> chrome
Dec 19 19:27:41 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: (not offered) uninstalled maemo metapkg?
Dec 19 19:27:51 <alterego> You mean the licensing stuff?
Dec 19 19:27:51 <SpeedEvil> don't think so
Dec 19 19:27:57 <SpeedEvil> I've not done anything wierd
Dec 19 19:28:05 <alterego> That meant we couldn't distribute it on maemo.org ?
Dec 19 19:28:08 <SpeedEvil> alterego: yes
Dec 19 19:28:32 <SpeedEvil> By 'fixed' I mean sorted so it could be, or was externally available
Dec 19 19:28:35 <alterego> Haven't heard anything, who was the package maintainer?
Dec 19 19:28:41 <SpeedEvil> don't remember
Dec 19 19:28:48 <alterego> Oh, the maintainer had it on his site iirc
Dec 19 19:35:08 <weeedar> is there a jabber clientt supporting MUC?
Dec 19 19:40:42 <Jaffa> SpeedEvil: alterego: the maintainer wasn't interested in us helping talk to the people C&Ding for it to be on maemo.org
Dec 19 19:40:57 <SpeedEvil> ah
Dec 19 19:58:56 <DocScrutinizer51> Jaffa: surprise? I gather it's a adridiot project?
Dec 19 20:24:23 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer51: jackwski
Dec 19 20:31:31 <Venemo> hi again guys
Dec 19 21:00:42 <MohammadAG> alterego, got a new profile on tmo? http://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=47227 :P
Dec 19 21:19:48 <Venemo> nooo! damn netsplit!
Dec 19 21:22:17 <DocScrutinizer> WTF?
Dec 19 21:22:42 * DocScrutinizer is happy to have set join/quit to hidden
Dec 19 21:29:00 <DocScrutinizer> uhuh, no netsplit but a scheduled rerouting
Dec 19 21:33:05 <alterego> Hahah
Dec 19 21:33:16 <alterego> That's weird.
Dec 19 21:33:25 <alterego> Someone must be taking the piss MohammadAG
Dec 19 21:33:51 <MohammadAG> altermeego
Dec 19 21:33:57 <alterego> altar
Dec 19 21:34:27 <MohammadAG> no, that's his nick, and that ^ is your new nick
Dec 19 21:34:56 <alterego> I dunno, I don't like it :P
Dec 19 21:37:27 <alterego> Anyhow, think it's bed time now.
Dec 19 21:41:36 <Pradeep> alterego hi tried it today it work
Dec 19 21:41:59 <Pradeep> but could not update my app
Dec 19 21:42:14 <Pradeep> i mean update my phone
Dec 19 21:44:53 <Pradeep> alterego, you there
Dec 19 21:46:05 <SpeedEvil> ~flashing
Dec 19 21:46:05 <infobot> somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Dec 19 21:46:12 <MohammadAG> <alterego> Anyhow, think it's bed time now.
Dec 19 21:48:18 <Pradeep> i connect my n900 via usb to my computer on a LAN
Dec 19 21:48:45 <Pradeep> it worked but i could not update my firmware
Dec 19 21:49:29 <Pradeep> it would always ask me for my preffered connection and LAN was inclusive
Dec 19 21:49:46 <PhonicUK> hey all
Dec 19 21:49:54 <PhonicUK> whats the state of the various PSX emus these days?
Dec 19 21:49:59 <Pradeep> even when i did apt-get ugrade it did not update it
Dec 19 21:50:10 <Pradeep> but is it possible
Dec 19 21:53:25 <Pradeep> any clue
Dec 19 22:03:40 <comawhite> wtf people run apache on the n900? :P
Dec 19 22:05:40 <bernie> SpeedEvil: yeah, it's pulseaudio. if I run it manually from the terminal I get audio back
Dec 19 22:05:43 <nox-> heh there were times when ppl ran apaches on 486s...
Dec 19 22:05:53 <bernie> SpeedEvil: but not in the mediaplayer. that's still wacked.
Dec 19 22:06:32 <bernie> wreaked
Dec 19 22:06:56 <MohammadAG> let me guess, you have decoders-support installed?
Dec 19 22:09:35 <Gh0sty> lol I got something funky
Dec 19 22:09:47 <Gh0sty> I reflashed my device today, restored everything from a backup
Dec 19 22:10:04 <Gh0sty> the alarmed entries were not there I tought (when you open the app it's empty)
Dec 19 22:10:38 <SpeedEvil> bernie: odd indeed
Dec 19 22:10:40 <Gh0sty> but now I noticed that the entries should be somewhere because my phone just went into silent mode ... which fits with the previous profiles set :)
Dec 19 22:15:39 <bernie> SpeedEvil: there doesn't seem to be a log where I would find errors from the pulseaudio spawned by the system.
Dec 19 22:17:08 <SpeedEvil> I'm not bothering.
Dec 19 22:17:39 <SpeedEvil> I've just downloaded the pr1.4 global firmware, and am rsyncing the data off the phone
Dec 19 22:17:58 <bernie> SpeedEvil: where did you download that from?
Dec 19 22:18:10 <MohammadAG> ~sarcasm
Dec 19 22:18:10 <infobot> rumour has it, sarcasm is a troll rolling on the stone
Dec 19 22:18:10 <SpeedEvil> Oh no! I'm not supposed to say that!
Dec 19 22:18:19 <SpeedEvil> (as it was a typo)
Dec 19 22:19:05 <PhonicUK> hey all, anyone know what the performance of psx4m is like?
Dec 19 22:19:22 <ShadowJK> there's a pr1.4?
Dec 19 22:19:31 <ShadowJK> lol
Dec 19 22:20:23 <Pradeep> is it possible to update firmware via usb LAN
Dec 19 22:21:00 <PhonicUK> If you have a Windows PC to hand, you can just update over USB
Dec 19 22:21:49 <bernie> Pradeep: would updating from usb retain the settings and user data? I guess so...
Dec 19 22:22:08 <Pradeep> cos i tried it
Dec 19 22:22:41 <bernie> I updated with apt, and now I'm seeing some weird bugs with pulseaudio and gstreamer. maybe related, maybe not
Dec 19 22:22:45 <Pradeep> it would always ask for preffered connection and it does show LAN
Dec 19 22:23:00 <Pradeep> only support wlan
Dec 19 22:23:08 <ShadowJK> flashing via usb wipes settings and installed apps
Dec 19 22:23:28 <Pradeep> apt does not update firmware
Dec 19 22:43:36 <DocScrutinizer> Gh0sty: alarmed maybe doesn't backup his events, but obviously alarmd does
Dec 19 22:47:28 <DocScrutinizer> bernie: if you happen to have done a apt-get (dist-)upgrade; then you're lucky if your system still boots
Dec 19 22:51:06 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Dec 19 23:27:40 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iYpxRXlboQ  Aubrey de Grey: Why we age and how we can avoid it
Dec 19 23:35:36 <quanttrom> hello all, I have a question regarding the installation of QtRapids and it's dependencies
Dec 19 23:36:07 <quanttrom> anyways willing to help ? :D
Dec 19 23:39:37 <comawhite> quanttrom, why you need a bit torrent on a phone? :P
Dec 19 23:41:20 <quanttrom> comawhite: honest answer: for kicks. There really isn't a good reason
Dec 19 23:41:28 <quanttrom> it's kinda like "oh see what my phone can do"
Dec 19 23:41:59 <quanttrom> and the typical answer : why not!?
Dec 19 23:42:12 <comawhite> ah yes
Dec 19 23:42:25 <Venemo> quanttrom: how is this related to a phone?
Dec 19 23:42:27 <comawhite> I want my app to work on the phone :(
Dec 19 23:42:44 <Venemo> oh, okay
Dec 19 23:42:55 <Venemo> what's the problem?
Dec 19 23:42:59 <quanttrom> in short
Dec 19 23:43:05 <comawhite> Venemo, me?
Dec 19 23:43:13 <quanttrom> oh yeah, who are u asking?
Dec 19 23:43:14 <MohammadAG> is gitorious slow? :/
Dec 19 23:43:17 <MohammadAG> Receiving objects:  16% (2710/16161), 1.04 MiB   1 KiB/s
Dec 19 23:43:23 <Venemo> comawhite: so what's the problem?
Dec 19 23:43:32 <Venemo> MohammadAG: it's been giving me 503s all day
Dec 19 23:43:44 <Venemo> MohammadAG: at random occasions
Dec 19 23:43:48 <comawhite> Venemo, nothing expect it needs code to be written
Dec 19 23:43:55 <comawhite> except*
Dec 19 23:43:57 <MohammadAG> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly MiB   1 KiB/s
Dec 19 23:43:59 <MohammadAG> fatal: early EOF
Dec 19 23:43:59 <MohammadAG> :/
Dec 19 23:44:17 <Venemo> comawhite: you said it was a dependency problem
Dec 19 23:44:52 <comawhite> no
Dec 19 23:45:49 <Venemo> comawhite: if it requires writing code, then write code
Dec 19 23:47:42 <comawhite> Venemo, I am :) it's just taking a long time since I have to write the code for my desktop first then port it to the phone
Dec 19 23:48:47 <comawhite> only bad thing about having my desktop application in KDE, having to make two versions of it
Dec 19 23:49:30 <Venemo> comawhite: :)
Dec 19 23:57:52 <Pradeep> it would always ask me for my preffered connection and LAN was inclusive
Dec 19 23:58:03 <Pradeep> even when i did apt-get ugrade it did not update it
Dec 19 23:58:20 <Pradeep> i connect my n900 via usb to my computer on a LAN
Dec 19 23:58:32 <Pradeep> apt does not update firmware
Dec 20 00:31:37 <yigal> Does anyone know if the "swirl to zoom" functionality of the N900 in Maemo could be ported to Ubuntu - not sure if "swirl to zoom" is the correct language but it's the ability to fluidly increase the zoom of the default browser by rotating (counter)clockwise etc.
Dec 20 00:32:02 <yigal> ?
Dec 20 00:32:35 <yigal> The above "?" was just a gramatical mark, not a remark about not being replied to in less than 10s.
Dec 20 00:41:37 <yigal> ok 7 minutes I'll repeat, there's been a few new heads
Dec 20 00:41:42 <yigal> Does anyone know if the "swirl to zoom" functionality of the N900 in Maemo could be ported to Ubuntu - not sure if "swirl to zoom" is the correct language but it's the ability to fluidly increase the zoom of the default browser by rotating (counter)clockwise etc.?
Dec 20 00:52:31 <ds3> Bah, no one seems to make a tablet with stuff I want in it :(
Dec 20 01:00:17 <yigal> ds3: what do you want in it, a pretty girl?
Dec 20 01:01:43 <ds3> yigal: no, I think what I want in it is pretty tame - 800x480; cap touch; wifi + bluetooth; non Android Linux; SD slot, USB OTG
Dec 20 01:02:07 <ds3> as far as I can tell, most either fail at the bluetooth and/or are android
Dec 20 01:06:54 <SpeedEvil> SD - you ,ean fullsize?
Dec 20 01:09:24 <ds3> preferred but not a requirement
Dec 20 01:24:55 <vampir> ����� ����
Dec 20 01:25:36 <ds3> !!!!!
Dec 20 01:28:54 <yigal> ds3: so you want < 7"?
Dec 20 01:31:30 <femtosecond> hi guys
Dec 20 01:31:38 <yigal> too fast for me man
Dec 20 01:32:16 <femtosecond> is it possible to update to 20.2010.36-2 without reflashing?
Dec 20 01:32:36 <ds3> yigal: No, 7" is preferable
Dec 20 01:34:56 <yigal> ds3: do you know how the port of Ubuntu on the galexy tab is going?
Dec 20 01:35:04 <yigal> too expensive?
Dec 20 01:35:43 <ds3> yigal: I am trying to stick with what is preloaded so I don't spend eternity and more tweaking it to support all the stuff, esp. power management
Dec 20 01:36:13 <ds3> there are some choices if I relinquish the non Android requirement
Dec 20 01:37:56 <yigal> I hate android
Dec 20 01:38:16 <yigal> just mo though
Dec 20 01:38:40 <ds3> It is hard to tolerate after years of Maemo usage where things worked.
Dec 20 01:39:21 <yigal> ya
Dec 20 01:40:00 <ds3> i am trying to find a tablet to use; not to tinker with and it seems like no one makes one
Dec 20 01:40:15 <yigal> ya they are all much larger
Dec 20 01:40:59 <yigal> you could get an iPad lol
Dec 20 01:41:03 <ds3> I am willing to up all the way up to 10" if that helps
Dec 20 01:41:09 <ds3> no, it must run Linux =)
Dec 20 01:41:24 <SpeedEvil> Tablets on android basically are not quite tehre yet.
Dec 20 01:41:34 <SpeedEvil> Tablets on other linuxes even less so typically
Dec 20 01:41:43 <SpeedEvil> unless you're willing to run ubuntu or something.
Dec 20 01:42:01 <ds3> SpeedEvil: I consider the N800/N900 there and ready. just need to add a few more details
Dec 20 01:42:04 <SpeedEvil> Intel claim that tehre will be a few doxen atom tablets launching next year
Dec 20 01:42:13 <SpeedEvil> Sure.
Dec 20 01:42:46 <SpeedEvil> But tehre are no similar integrated tablet OSs that are linux based and not iOS or android
Dec 20 01:42:48 <ds3> Intel isn't an option
Dec 20 01:43:04 <yigal> I'm running Ubuntu on an Asus t91mt it's 8.9" weighs 2.1lbs it has multitouch zoom, pan, and what not but it's multitouch resistive it also has a keyboard which I like but others would most likely find that extra bulk in the way.
Dec 20 01:43:05 <SpeedEvil> LEave it a year, and this may change
Dec 20 01:43:25 <ds3> it isn't multitouch that I care for
Dec 20 01:43:52 <ds3> I am willing to tolerate resistive if it is tweaked sufficiently like the N900
Dec 20 01:44:19 <yigal> the multitouch features are just coming into Ubuntu/rest of the open source community
Dec 20 01:44:31 <yigal> zooming is the issue for me
Dec 20 01:44:44 <ds3> a rocker would suffice for zooming, IMO
Dec 20 01:44:45 <yigal> unlike the n900 with the twirl to zoom
Dec 20 01:44:53 <yigal> ds3: true
Dec 20 01:45:10 <ds3> I can completely give up the volume keys and trade it for zooming (i.e. like the browser defaults)
Dec 20 01:45:10 <yigal> worked well enough in n8x0
Dec 20 01:45:17 <yigal> yes
Dec 20 01:45:22 <yigal> speak brother
Dec 20 01:45:27 <yigal> amen
Dec 20 01:45:52 <ds3> It really sucks to have to buy a peice of crap Android tablet and spend a few months to rework it (note that I have not nailed down a price point!)
Dec 20 01:46:23 * SpeedEvil wonders about modding the n900 with a larger screen.
Dec 20 01:46:36 <yigal> lol
Dec 20 01:46:49 <yigal> SpeedEvil: man I wish it had come out as a 7" device
Dec 20 01:46:57 <ds3> the irritating thing with that is, there aren't any cheap ones that will meet what I want (most lack bluetooth)
Dec 20 01:47:13 <SpeedEvil> A 8" or so screen, with the existing keyboard off the side.
Dec 20 01:47:39 <ds3> SpeedEvil: I can build one up with a 7" display but there are things you build and things you want to use now.
Dec 20 01:47:44 <yigal> Archos 70
Dec 20 01:47:56 <SpeedEvil> ds3: I agree
Dec 20 01:48:04 <ds3> Archos 70 seems to be a europe only release?
Dec 20 01:48:15 <yigal> nope
Dec 20 01:48:20 <quanttrom>  PROMPT_COMMAND='pwd>&7;kill -STOP $$'
Dec 20 01:48:24 <yigal> though I'm just looking at umpcportal
Dec 20 01:48:39 <ds3> last I checked (about month ago), no US seller is listing it
Dec 20 01:48:56 <yigal> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=archos+70&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=2056536557841999780&ei=l7UOTee0BYm4sAPOivG-Ag&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDkQ8wIwAg#
Dec 20 01:49:03 <yigal> sorry a lot of venders there
Dec 20 01:49:11 <yigal> Newegg etc.
Dec 20 01:50:10 <SpeedEvil> And at least archos seems to provice GPL of some form, though I haven't checked
Dec 20 01:50:31 <ds3> hmmm that wasn't there the last I looked
Dec 20 01:50:46 <yigal> hopefully it's of use
Dec 20 01:51:04 <yigal> though I can't stomache purchasing an Android tablet unless maybe the Adam
Dec 20 01:51:08 <yigal> maybe
Dec 20 01:51:46 <ds3> $270 + a man month of labor... that's $$$$
Dec 20 01:52:00 <yigal> time is $, $ is time
Dec 20 01:52:04 <yigal> true that
Dec 20 01:52:51 <ds3> and the Archos is still an inferior screen compared to the N900/N810
Dec 20 01:54:30 <yigal> well if you like the idea of a t91mt I show you how to easily get Ubuntu with touch on it, but I think you're looking for a slightly different device.
Dec 20 01:55:11 <ds3> t91mt? /me looks
Dec 20 01:55:16 <yigal> the nice thing about the Archos 7 is it's really quite light
Dec 20 01:55:33 <yigal> it's a netbook/tablet convertable
Dec 20 01:55:41 <yigal> I use it for everything though
Dec 20 01:55:45 <ds3> oh 5hour battery life? HAHAHAHAHAHA
Dec 20 01:55:52 <ds3> that is funny
Dec 20 01:56:04 <yigal> ya, I have an external battery pack
Dec 20 01:56:14 <ds3> I found a picture of it; looks like an overgrown clam shell Zaurus :D
Dec 20 01:56:34 <yigal> yep, but the keyboard is large enough to actually use all 10 fingers
Dec 20 01:56:47 <yigal> so to me that's a huge change
Dec 20 01:57:13 <ds3> I see... but isn't that also true of the Toshiba AC100?
Dec 20 01:59:33 <yigal> yes
Dec 20 01:59:58 <yigal> is it a convertable?
Dec 20 02:00:04 <ds3> think so
Dec 20 02:00:13 <ds3> ARM based, not x86
Dec 20 02:01:35 <yigal> right, can't really say I think it's just a netbook
Dec 20 02:02:34 <ds3> depends on how important is battery life
Dec 20 02:03:54 <ds3> also with an ARM based system, you have a slight chance of running existing maemo binaries
Dec 20 02:04:42 <yigal> true, no doubt but with an atom processor you have a good chance running all of Debian/Ubuntu binaries, it depends on what you want
Dec 20 02:07:43 <SpeedEvil> Dunno how the battery life of the new atom tablets will be.
Dec 20 02:07:57 <ds3> yes, but most stock x86 binaries aren't designed for touch
Dec 20 02:08:09 <ds3> the UI on those things really want you to have a mouse
Dec 20 02:12:36 <femtosecond> which is the best way to update to Maemo 5 PR1.3?
Dec 20 02:13:10 <SpeedEvil> Over the air is simplest if you can
Dec 20 02:15:31 <yigal> ds3: sure, but I find using a stylus it doesn't make too much difference, and I use a stylus
Dec 20 02:16:18 <ds3> yigal: fair enough... what about charger, does that thing charge off USB?
Dec 20 02:17:22 <yigal> Nope it's a netbook with a touchscreen that pivots into a tablet, I can't imagine too many people, other than myself will enjoy the idea :), but for me it's perfect
Dec 20 02:17:53 <femtosecond> SpeedEvil: so no need to reflash?
Dec 20 02:18:59 <SpeedEvil> In principle no. But some peoples setups can'do that for various reasons
Dec 20 02:19:48 <yigal> well other than the fact that of course I would like 24h of battery life and I get 4.
Dec 20 02:20:00 <ds3> heh
Dec 20 02:20:17 <ds3> I am resisting that idea as I toyed with the early transmeta tablets
Dec 20 02:21:22 <yigal> how many hours did they get, 1?
Dec 20 02:21:27 <yigal> tc1100?
Dec 20 02:21:59 <yigal> sorry that's an HP tablet of roughly the same specs
Dec 20 02:22:17 <ds3> tc1000
Dec 20 02:22:27 <ds3> about an hour is right
Dec 20 02:22:43 <yigal> lol, ya the tc1100 came later but with roughly the same specs
Dec 20 02:23:39 <ds3> the 1100 is a celeron, IIRC..the 1000 is the transmeta I think
Dec 20 02:23:59 <yigal> yes tc1100 is celeron, the way I look at it they weigh 3/2 as much as my laptop and have 1/3 1/4 the battery life as it
Dec 20 02:24:42 <ds3> heh, true... I much rather have an ARM instead
Dec 20 02:24:54 <yigal> you're looking for ~8 hours of battery life?
Dec 20 02:25:13 <yigal> ~12
Dec 20 02:25:13 <infobot> i guess 12 is 1
Dec 20 02:25:21 <yigal> lol
Dec 20 02:25:25 <yigal> ~2
Dec 20 02:25:26 <infobot> It's TO, not '2'. This is not l33t3 sp34k nor is this AOL.
Dec 20 02:25:33 <yigal> lol
Dec 20 02:26:09 <ds3> 24hour is the target; I'll tolerate N900 range battery life
Dec 20 02:26:40 <ds3> that's why I would prefer USB charging; then I get one of those USB batteries to supplement
Dec 20 02:27:28 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Dec 20 02:27:44 <yigal> ya, I've grown used to a bit more power but you're right it's really all that's needed to get things done
Dec 20 02:27:53 <SpeedEvil> I have a laptop that with a replacement battery gets 15 hours, and weighs 1.1Kg
Dec 20 02:28:04 <yigal> awsome
Dec 20 02:28:08 <SpeedEvil> Unfortunately, it's a PII/300
Dec 20 02:28:15 <yigal> oh, lol
Dec 20 02:28:16 <SpeedEvil> And has USB1.1 and no wifi
Dec 20 02:28:21 <yigal> lol
Dec 20 02:28:30 <yigal> bluetooth?
Dec 20 02:28:34 <SpeedEvil> (I replaced the battery, and got 10h - but battery capacity has improved)
Dec 20 02:33:15 <ds3> PII/300 is sufficient
Dec 20 02:33:27 <ds3> the ~2.5lbs is a bit annoying though
Dec 20 02:34:45 <xenno> Does the BTS send the cell-id to the mobile unit you're calling to? or is that information just stored in VLR? sorry for stupid question :(
Dec 20 02:35:44 <yigal> laters, good food for thought
Dec 20 02:36:20 <xenno> anyone??
Dec 20 02:37:06 <SpeedEvil> ds3: yes - it's just comparing the spec is fucking insane as you pretty much can't buy a comparable device.
Dec 20 02:37:26 <ds3> SpeedEvil: *nod*
Dec 20 02:37:50 <SpeedEvil> For example, nice 10" netbook, with a trackpoint, and 12h battery life, and 1.1Kg - where?
Dec 20 02:38:18 <ptl> ipad?
Dec 20 02:38:30 * ptl ducks
Dec 20 02:38:44 <ds3> the AC100 comes close
Dec 20 02:39:01 <SpeedEvil> ipad lacks keyboard
Dec 20 02:39:39 <SpeedEvil> http://www.ciao.co.uk/Toshiba_Portege_3110CT__17232
Dec 20 02:39:51 <ds3> it looks like the AC100 is not convertable
Dec 20 02:42:05 <SpeedEvil> http://www.ac100.com/
Dec 20 02:42:08 <SpeedEvil> I'm not up to that.
Dec 20 02:45:50 <ds3> more of - http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/laptops/361312/toshiba-ac100/media
Dec 20 02:47:08 <SpeedEvil> ah
Dec 20 02:48:30 <SpeedEvil> yeah - saw that
Dec 20 02:55:23 <b-man|RX51> xnt14: lies xD
Dec 20 02:55:57 <xnt14> b-man|RX51: I'm kidding. :P
Dec 20 02:58:10 <juk> hey guys how to remove photo tag i made, for some pics i removed, but tag is still there
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 20 02:59:58 2010