**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 27 02:59:57 2010
Dec 27 04:28:55 <tzafrir_laptop> my N900 fails to power on
Dec 27 04:29:34 <tzafrir_laptop> A few hours ago it almost ran out of battery. I managed to connect it to a USB charger after the second ring
Dec 27 04:46:51 <DocScrutinizer> tzafrir_laptop: errrrm, then charge it?
Dec 27 04:47:34 <tzafrir_laptop> DocScrutinizer, hmm... it seems the charger was faulty, indeed. Not sure why, as it worked before
Dec 27 04:47:41 <tzafrir_laptop> (a few hours ago)
Dec 27 04:48:18 <tzafrir_laptop> I've now switched to charging it from USB
Dec 27 08:01:56 <timeless_mbp> Trizt: ok, i think i've pushed my final version for a while
Dec 27 08:02:06 * timeless_mbp will update, test and then publish for the world
Dec 27 08:02:13 <timeless_mbp> (well, the small world)
Dec 27 08:05:35 * timeless_mbp needs to work on the corrupt package / repository error messages some day :(
Dec 27 08:07:45 <timeless_mbp> Trizt: yeah, i think i'm good enough
Dec 27 08:09:57 <timeless_mbp> you should remove the <dot-number> from the repo path so that you don't get updates (or errors) from my beta repo :)
Dec 27 08:44:41 <Jaffa> GAN900: no :)
Dec 27 08:58:56 <Jaffa> khertan: ping
Dec 27 08:59:14 <RST38h> moorning all
Dec 27 09:02:14 <TriztN900> morning, gosh I wish I could go home... hate to work...
Dec 27 09:33:13 <yacc> Just out of curiosity, could it be that com.nokia.icd does not support dbus introspection?
Dec 27 09:46:05 <Lantizia> Hey anyone here got Plasma Mobile working on their N900 or know where to go to get it done?
Dec 27 09:47:15 <yacc> Plasma Mobile?
Dec 27 09:47:33 <Lantizia> yes
Dec 27 09:49:10 <psycho_oreos> care to explain?
Dec 27 09:50:55 <Lantizia> not really - if you know what it is then you can help lol... if you don't know what it is then you can google :)
Dec 27 09:56:56 <BCMM_> Lantizia: kde plasma, right?
Dec 27 09:57:01 <yacc> How came that I cannot introspect com.nokia.icd2? mdbus2 just hangs, ...
Dec 27 09:57:35 <Lantizia> BCMM_, indeed
Dec 27 09:57:39 <kerio> yacc: because nokia
Dec 27 09:58:29 <yacc> Well, so my finding that these Finnish trolls have left out the introspection API make sense?
Dec 27 10:08:26 <BCMM_> Lantizia: a little mean to demand people google when you haven't... the n900 is the only platform plasma mobile has been tried on so far, afaik
Dec 27 10:08:50 <Lantizia> BCMM_, and how do you know I haven't?
Dec 27 10:09:03 <BCMM_> Lantizia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE_Plasma_Workspaces#Mobile and http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2009/10/27/qgraphicsview-is-a-hummer-plasma-is-the-luxury-version/
Dec 27 10:09:18 <Lantizia> seen them
Dec 27 10:10:50 <sivang> morning people
Dec 27 10:11:25 <BCMM_> well, one of those actually has a video of somebody "getting plasma mobile working on their n900", and the other says when it might be stable
Dec 27 10:12:46 <BCMM_> yacc, psycho_oreos: plasma is KDE's desktop widget thing, amongst other things
Dec 27 10:13:30 <psycho_oreos> BCMM_, now that sounds vaguely familiar, I had to muck around with that for superkaramba on xfce
Dec 27 10:13:45 <BCMM_> it draws the panel and so on, and also supports things like google gadgets, and it's own native desktop applets written in qt and python
Dec 27 10:13:59 <BCMM_> psycho_oreos: yeah, it supporrs superkaramba applets too
Dec 27 10:14:27 <BCMM_> it replaces superkaramba, kdesktop and the kde panel from kde3
Dec 27 10:15:08 <yacc> BCMM_, yeah, not being really a KDE user ;)
Dec 27 10:15:35 <BCMM_> the applets can also be compiled c++ qt applications
Dec 27 10:15:40 <BCMM_> basically, the kde panel and desktop, including widgets
Dec 27 10:16:12 <BCMM_> for example, the kde taskbar is now implemented as a plasma widget
Dec 27 10:17:02 <BCMM_> people are working on running it on mobiles because it has a large library of widgetty thing; news and weather and so on
Dec 27 10:17:52 <RST38h> How is the performance though?
Dec 27 10:18:15 <BCMM_> well, vid is smoothish, iirc
Dec 27 10:18:41 <BCMM_> ofc, depends on the widget; that's a bit like asking how xorg performs
Dec 27 10:19:17 <BCMM_> well written plasma stuff is pretty light on systems where 2d accel works properly
Dec 27 10:38:25 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: (Finnish trolls) yep, well known fact. That's why Mickey included that notice about "relies on proper introspection" in the first place, afaik
Dec 27 10:39:08 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: though it shouldn't hang aiui. Maybe take some 90s to get a dbus timeout, but not hang
Dec 27 10:39:19 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: that sucks ;(
Dec 27 10:39:24 <DocScrutinizer> indeed
Dec 27 10:39:38 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: so it's using strings on the icd2 binary?
Dec 27 10:39:58 <yacc> I just want to have a method to check the currently connected connection, ...
Dec 27 10:39:59 <DocScrutinizer> ask more savvy poeple than me, like lcuk. They have an excuse for that
Dec 27 10:40:47 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: you're aware of the phonecontrol wikipage?
Dec 27 10:41:33 <yacc> Yeah, but it does not include a call to GET the current connection, or I've consumed to much Methanol and am turning blind ;)
Dec 27 10:43:12 <DocScrutinizer> (excuse) I understood it would've been much more work to implement introspection - though I can't really see why that is
Dec 27 10:43:25 <TrackerDPP> hello all
Dec 27 10:43:44 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: I just want to make sure that a "connect" call really did succeed, ...
Dec 27 10:44:29 <TrackerDPP> how i proced to install backtrack on my N900 ?
Dec 27 10:44:49 <yacc> One classical algorithm would be while(variable != TARGET_VALUE) { do_something_so_that_variable_becomes(TARGET_VALUE); sleep(sometime); }
Dec 27 10:45:08 <aslani> X-Fade: ping
Dec 27 10:45:11 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: I have not the faintest idea about icd's dbus methods. So I can't really help. Just suggest usual *burp*, like using strings on the binary etc
Dec 27 10:45:36 <X-Fade> aslani: pong
Dec 27 10:45:36 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: yeah, I thought of strings myself, well I guess I might do it tonight.
Dec 27 10:45:49 <frals> DocScrutinizer: probably because the metods are not supposed to be used by other applications as they are not stable? ;-)
Dec 27 10:45:57 <yacc> It sucks to have to check manually if the dummy connection "USB connection" is online, ...
Dec 27 10:45:59 <aslani> X-Fade: someone broke maemo.org?
Dec 27 10:46:26 <yacc> aslani, that's what you get from letting small kids play with keyboards :-P
Dec 27 10:46:47 <X-Fade> aslani: Queue Shaggi.....         "It wasn't me"
Dec 27 10:46:50 <aslani> :-D
Dec 27 10:47:22 <DocScrutinizer> frals: who was it to suggest "never assume malice, when mere incompetence or sloppiness will explain everything"
Dec 27 10:47:49 <X-Fade> aslani: Can't ssh into the webservers.
Dec 27 10:48:07 <aslani> hm... this might be a problem
Dec 27 10:48:09 <X-Fade> aslani: So that must be ISP internal network down or something like that.
Dec 27 10:48:14 <DocScrutinizer> sounds like javispedro, jaffa, or GAN900
Dec 27 10:48:34 <X-Fade> aslani: Correction, can't even reach the whole server farm.
Dec 27 10:48:37 <RobbieThe1st> Doc: "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity"
Dec 27 10:48:41 <X-Fade> aslani: So datacenter issue.
Dec 27 10:48:54 <RobbieThe1st> And I think it's been around for many years...
Dec 27 10:48:55 <aslani> :)
Dec 27 10:48:57 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: or that :-D
Dec 27 10:49:01 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, repository.maemo.org went down with it eh?
Dec 27 10:49:05 <aslani> ok, a small problem then
Dec 27 10:49:09 <alterego> Sounds like something GAN would say though
Dec 27 10:49:21 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Well no ... and yes.
Dec 27 10:49:43 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: You can access the debs, but not the directory indexes or dynamic files.
Dec 27 10:50:08 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, so I should be able to test the SSU?
Dec 27 10:50:28 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Not sure, try it out :)
Dec 27 10:50:33 <aslani> X-Fade: want me to contact ISP or just wait?
Dec 27 10:50:54 <X-Fade> aslani: If you can call their hotline? Your finnish is a lot better than mine.
Dec 27 10:51:09 <aslani> X-Fade: roger that. I'll give them a call
Dec 27 10:51:34 <X-Fade> aslani: But my guess is "we are having network issues" or "Our datacenter burnt down"
Dec 27 10:51:39 <alterego> X-Fade, my apps screenshot isn't showing up in downloads
Dec 27 10:52:01 <X-Fade> alterego: Well I can't even check downloads atm :)
Dec 27 10:52:14 <alterego> Heh
Dec 27 10:52:35 <alterego> Well, are the images moderated?
Dec 27 10:52:37 <X-Fade> alterego: But there is a bug about that screenshot issue, which aslani is following up on iirc.
Dec 27 10:52:44 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: I hope it's akamei's datacenter :-D
Dec 27 10:52:51 <yacc> X-Fade, well, with my cable ISP it's usually enough to try to reach their call center. If there is a problem, they change the tape to say something like "sorry for the long wait time, we are experiencing a nuclear melt down in areacodes 1234" ;)
Dec 27 10:53:00 <yacc> Then you don't even have to wait for an operator.
Dec 27 10:53:14 <alterego> X-Fade: cool, good to know :)
Dec 27 10:53:17 <aslani> X-Fade: yeah, "network issues" hopefully soon over, but you never know
Dec 27 10:53:35 <alterego> Oh, is maemo.org down?
Dec 27 10:53:50 <aslani> it is
Dec 27 10:53:53 <X-Fade> alterego: Scroll up a few lines more ;)
Dec 27 10:54:00 <alterego> t.m.o is fine :)
Dec 27 10:54:29 <alterego> t.m.o is fine :)
Dec 27 10:54:30 <DocScrutinizer> '³!!@*###!!€ĦЧª® N810 unsolicited reboot
Dec 27 10:54:34 <alterego> Ah, cool
Dec 27 10:55:16 <DocScrutinizer> So the 9 days uptime since swapping battery were mere incidence
Dec 27 10:55:25 * alterego looks for things to do
Dec 27 10:55:54 <alterego> Think I'll start working on that personaly finance app today.
Dec 27 10:56:04 <alterego> Gonna do it in Qt Quick
Dec 27 10:58:19 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: umm, connection refused. Hardly a fire
Dec 27 10:58:49 <alterego> God, all the newbs got 'droids for Christmas and are now spreading it all over tmo it seems.
Dec 27 10:58:50 <zap> X-Fade: hi! how about fixing unzip till new year? :-)
Dec 27 10:58:51 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: Yeah, network issues. Probably their routers.
Dec 27 10:58:57 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Dec 27 10:59:18 <X-Fade> zap: Shall we start over? Shall I wipe all versions?
Dec 27 10:59:53 <zap> X-Fade: anything that would work :)
Dec 27 11:00:00 <zap> (only for fremantle)
Dec 27 11:00:05 <X-Fade> zap: I tried to fix it a few times but somehow never managed to get it right.
Dec 27 11:00:07 <zap> Diablo seems okay
Dec 27 11:00:11 <X-Fade> zap: Yeah, only for fremantle.
Dec 27 11:00:12 <zap> sad
Dec 27 11:00:19 <zap> Fremantle Extras-testing free armel	unzip 6.0-1maemo1
Dec 27 11:00:19 <zap> Fremantle Extras-testing free i386	unzip 6.0-1maemo1
Dec 27 11:00:23 <zap> these two
Dec 27 11:00:32 <X-Fade> zap: Is -devel fine?
Dec 27 11:00:38 <zap> no
Dec 27 11:00:46 <DocScrutinizer> *burp*
Dec 27 11:00:50 <zap> I have submitted the sources again, but they still did not appear
Dec 27 11:00:58 * alterego sips some more coffee
Dec 27 11:00:59 <DocScrutinizer> unzip? isn't that in tools?
Dec 27 11:01:21 <zap> DocScrutinizer: this is unzip 6.0
Dec 27 11:01:27 <X-Fade> zap: ok, will wipe it all there too and then we can start from scratch.
Dec 27 11:01:41 <X-Fade> zap: once the network to the servers is back.
Dec 27 11:01:50 <zap> good
Dec 27 11:02:08 <DocScrutinizer> akamai's xmess present :-D
Dec 27 11:02:44 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: No, that is not akamai.
Dec 27 11:02:51 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
Dec 27 11:03:38 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: But I guess you can do a reverse lookup too :)
Dec 27 11:03:49 <DocScrutinizer> you locked Asange's account on garage? ;-D
Dec 27 11:05:07 <alterego> Hah
Dec 27 11:05:10 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: it's not one of my everyday practices, but I guess I still get it without reading a howto, yes
Dec 27 11:05:19 <alterego> I wonder if he's still just down the road from me.
Dec 27 11:05:32 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: ping maemo.org, copy ip, whois <ip> :)
Dec 27 11:06:48 <DocScrutinizer> I wonder... yeah, ofc dns works, even when ping stalls
Dec 27 11:07:32 <X-Fade> As long as your dns servers are outside and ttl hasn't expired.
Dec 27 11:07:48 <DocScrutinizer> still I prefer a dig maemo.org
Dec 27 11:08:11 <Ellement> can somone please shed some light on this for me, i'm getting the error on boot "All telephony functions, including emergency calls, are disabled due to a communication error. To recover, you might have to reboot the device".
Dec 27 11:09:51 <DocScrutinizer> Oy
Dec 27 11:09:57 <DocScrutinizer> Logica Finland Oy
Dec 27 11:09:58 <achipa> ~down
Dec 27 11:09:59 <infobot> it has been said that down is hell, or the enemy's gate, or where you were last weekened
Dec 27 11:10:04 <alterego> Got this for xmas from my gfs mom: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=112
Dec 27 11:10:13 <alterego> It's really neat, even if it is ms
Dec 27 11:11:08 <MohammadAG> alterego, MS hardware's cool tbh
Dec 27 11:11:20 <alterego> :)
Dec 27 11:11:25 <MohammadAG> alterego, I have a bluetrack mouse
Dec 27 11:11:40 <DocScrutinizer> Ellement: sounds nasty. Problems with your SIM?
Dec 27 11:12:23 <MohammadAG> it was sexy, till the side decided to react with sth and the paint went away
Dec 27 11:12:43 <DocScrutinizer> Ellement: please look at dmesg, search for any related error messages
Dec 27 11:13:06 <Ellement> i swapped with another sim, same problem
Dec 27 11:13:10 <DocScrutinizer> bah, who needs paint?
Dec 27 11:13:19 <DocScrutinizer> Ellement: eeew
Dec 27 11:13:53 <Ellement> DocScrutinizer: where is dmesg, can i read it using terminal?
Dec 27 11:13:53 * MohammadAG install Xbox 360 remote
Dec 27 11:13:59 <DocScrutinizer> Ellement: I suggest you reflash rootfs. What's been the last (significant) thing you did on the phone?
Dec 27 11:14:15 <MohammadAG> alterego, err, Xbox 360 not included? that should be in the description!
Dec 27 11:14:21 <MohammadAG> I want my money back
Dec 27 11:14:23 <DocScrutinizer> Ellement: sure. just type >>dmesg<< in terminal
Dec 27 11:14:39 <Ellement> DocScrutinizer: Dropped it in toilet :O
Dec 27 11:14:49 <DocScrutinizer> no kidding?
Dec 27 11:14:59 <Ellement> nope, on xmas eve too, bad day for me
Dec 27 11:15:07 <alterego> MohammadAG: :P
Dec 27 11:15:12 <MohammadAG> drop it in a pack of rice
Dec 27 11:15:14 <DocScrutinizer> forget it. Device is dead
Dec 27 11:15:18 <Ellement> yeh i have done that
Dec 27 11:15:27 <DocScrutinizer> FSCK RICE!!!!
Dec 27 11:15:29 <MohammadAG> make a funeral
Dec 27 11:15:31 <Ellement> was day b4 xmas eve sorry, so sat in rice for a few days
Dec 27 11:15:37 <DocScrutinizer> ~spank MohammadAG
Dec 27 11:15:38 * infobot bends MohammadAG over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on MohammadAG's pasty white buttocks.
Dec 27 11:15:40 <RobbieThe1st> Well, you can -try- disassembling it entirely, make sure there
Dec 27 11:15:50 <RobbieThe1st> 's no residue left over
Dec 27 11:16:12 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: 2 days with battery and water? device is dead
Dec 27 11:16:12 <RobbieThe1st> You've got a chance there, I suppose
Dec 27 11:16:15 <Ellement> i unscrewed it, and wiped it down then left it unscewred/opened up in rice
Dec 27 11:16:24 <MohammadAG> ~botsmack
Dec 27 11:16:24 <infobot> OWW!
Dec 27 11:16:33 <RobbieThe1st> But it boots, right? It's just the communications module that doesn't
Dec 27 11:16:34 <alterego> MohammadAG: starting a new app today, in Qt Quick/Qml
Dec 27 11:16:40 <Ellement> yeh its boots
Dec 27 11:16:45 <Ellement> just get error msg
Dec 27 11:16:47 <MohammadAG> alterego, which is?
Dec 27 11:17:20 <DocScrutinizer> Ellement: keep device in a warm place (50..60°C) for ONE WEEK
Dec 27 11:17:28 <DocScrutinizer> WITHOUT BATTERY
Dec 27 11:18:06 <Ellement> u think even now do that?
Dec 27 11:18:08 <DocScrutinizer> preferably disassembled
Dec 27 11:18:24 <MohammadAG> All telephony functions, including emergency calls, are disabled due to a communication error. To recover, you might have to reboot the device.
Dec 27 11:18:26 <MohammadAG> that?
Dec 27 11:18:30 <DocScrutinizer> Ellement: it's the only thing except buying a new one you can do
Dec 27 11:18:41 <Ellement> i thought i could maybe flash it?
Dec 27 11:18:51 <DocScrutinizer> don't do that
Dec 27 11:18:57 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, the device is fine, the modem's dead
Dec 27 11:19:00 <RobbieThe1st> No, basicly that means the communications module can't be contacted... Right?
Dec 27 11:19:05 <alterego> MohammadAG: It's a personal finance management ap.
Dec 27 11:19:11 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: so what?
Dec 27 11:19:13 <Ellement> is there a way to test the modem is dead?
Dec 27 11:19:14 <alterego> app
Dec 27 11:19:20 <alterego> Anyhow bbiab
Dec 27 11:19:28 <Ellement> or communication module is dead
Dec 27 11:19:42 <RobbieThe1st> Hm... out of curiosity, what does "ifconfig" say?
Dec 27 11:19:49 <MohammadAG> alterego, :)
Dec 27 11:19:50 <Ellement> ill see
Dec 27 11:20:05 <MohammadAG> dmesg | pastebinit
Dec 27 11:20:09 <alterego> Ellement: you're the salt water guy right?
Dec 27 11:20:21 <Ellement> toilet guy
Dec 27 11:20:24 <DocScrutinizer> don't confuse Ellement !  His device was fine before the accident. No flashing and no ifconfig will repair it
Dec 27 11:20:31 <Ellement> >> ifconfig not found
Dec 27 11:20:38 <RobbieThe1st> as root
Dec 27 11:20:50 <alterego> Ah, well, like they said, l.ey it dry out in a warm place for a few days
Dec 27 11:21:10 <RobbieThe1st> Doc: I'm just curious as to whether -everything-'s dead, just the GSM module, or what?
Dec 27 11:21:18 <alterego> You can speed things up if you take it appart (not recommended unless you really are prepared)
Dec 27 11:21:33 <Ellement> i did unscrew it b4 to dry out
Dec 27 11:21:35 <DocScrutinizer> Ellement: every minute with power will further destroy your device. REMOVE BATTERY *NOW*
Dec 27 11:21:38 * MohammadAG sighs at haider93's posts
Dec 27 11:21:38 <DocScrutinizer> DRY IT
Dec 27 11:21:48 <Ellement> ok
Dec 27 11:22:22 <RobbieThe1st> He's already dried it for days. More than likely there's a bit of residue that's connected between two contacts. I think
Dec 27 11:22:37 <RobbieThe1st> Or it got fried right at the beginning
Dec 27 11:22:39 <Ellement> ill leave it for a few more days and try again
Dec 27 11:22:40 <Venemo> hey guys
Dec 27 11:22:46 <MohammadAG> hi Venemo
Dec 27 11:23:07 <RobbieThe1st> As far as water goes, It may not be an N900, but I took an old(dual-core) Dell workstation that had been out in the rain for quite a while with the case side open, cleaned it all out with WD40 and compressed air... And I've got a new PC. Surprising, considering the slightly corroded terminals.
Dec 27 11:23:35 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: yes. possibly. Depends on the water in toilet (sorry). If it was "clean" then probably only water remaining somewhere. Rice is a BAD idea to dry device
Dec 27 11:23:37 <alterego> Lucky :)
Dec 27 11:23:48 <Ellement> was clean, was it rice bad?
Dec 27 11:23:50 <RobbieThe1st> I won't disagree there
Dec 27 11:24:03 <alterego> rice?
Dec 27 11:24:07 <RobbieThe1st> It's just that rice probably wouldn't get it all
Dec 27 11:24:13 <DocScrutinizer> Ellement: if however the water was with detergent or sth, you probably should rinse device with ethanol
Dec 27 11:24:37 <RobbieThe1st> Doc: would you suggest putting it in an oven at what... 100F?
Dec 27 11:24:46 <DocScrutinizer> 55°C
Dec 27 11:24:58 <DocScrutinizer> PC fan, or similar
Dec 27 11:25:09 <DocScrutinizer> for LOOONG time
Dec 27 11:25:10 <RobbieThe1st> 131F, that sounds about right...
Dec 27 11:25:14 <DocScrutinizer> a week, or more
Dec 27 11:25:49 <Ellement> thanks for all your advice, ill touch base again in a few days and let you know how its going
Dec 27 11:25:51 <DocScrutinizer> make sure the temperature doesn't rise above 80..90°C or your dvice will melt
Dec 27 11:25:56 <tybollt_> must... not... recommend... microwave...
Dec 27 11:26:11 <alterego> Hahah
Dec 27 11:26:47 <RobbieThe1st> Microwave... Not a good idea. Mainly because of the antennas.
Dec 27 11:27:19 <RobbieThe1st> You can fry a RFID chip in just a few seconds with one of those! >:3
Dec 27 11:27:22 <DocScrutinizer> microwave is a sure means to kill microelectronics
Dec 27 11:27:41 * timeless_xchat pokes mohammadag
Dec 27 11:27:45 <DocScrutinizer> battlefield aproved
Dec 27 11:28:03 * MohammadAG pokes timeless_mbp 
Dec 27 11:28:07 <MohammadAG> hmm
Dec 27 11:28:27 <timeless_xchat> mohammadag, so, did you try it?
Dec 27 11:28:39 <DocScrutinizer> microwave also works excellent to erase CDs forever :-D
Dec 27 11:28:48 <MohammadAG> timeless_xchat, just noticed the PM
Dec 27 11:29:01 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, so it's a quick way to erase CD-RWs? :P
Dec 27 11:29:08 <DocScrutinizer> as well
Dec 27 11:29:28 <RobbieThe1st> Provided you don't want -anyone- to ever have to use it, sure
Dec 27 11:29:36 <DocScrutinizer> though beware! CIA can recover even those
Dec 27 11:29:56 <MohammadAG> even if I shred it?
Dec 27 11:30:02 <tybollt_> DocScrutinizer: there was a thread about a sure means to insta-kill a HDD if the coppers come raid your home. Many suggested the microwave. For an old mechanical disk in a solid metal housing - you think it'd work quickly?
Dec 27 11:30:02 <MohammadAG> then rebuild it again
Dec 27 11:30:06 <MohammadAG> and shred it
Dec 27 11:30:13 <DocScrutinizer> then it's a bit harder for them, MohammadAG
Dec 27 11:30:14 <MohammadAG> timeless_xchat, 404
Dec 27 11:30:20 <timeless_xchat> hrm
Dec 27 11:30:25 <MohammadAG> lol DocScrutinizer
Dec 27 11:30:48 <DocScrutinizer> tybollt_: useless futile nonsense
Dec 27 11:31:00 <tybollt_> :)
Dec 27 11:31:13 <psycho_oreos> nothing beats thermite :)
Dec 27 11:31:24 <RobbieThe1st> Speaking of microwaves, killing those stupid debit-card-rfid chips is easy - stick it in for 5 seconds, and you've got an undamaged card(mag strip works fine), with a nice little black dot where the chip used to be. >:3
Dec 27 11:31:26 <DocScrutinizer> tybollt_: move to >15th floor. Then just throw it out the window
Dec 27 11:31:34 <tybollt_> bruahaha :)
Dec 27 11:31:41 <DocScrutinizer> make sure there's concrete where it lands
Dec 27 11:32:15 <DocScrutinizer> only semi-safe way. Better way: fire. But that takes quite a time
Dec 27 11:32:28 <psycho_oreos> like I said, thermite
Dec 27 11:32:38 <GuySoft> maemo.org is offline?
Dec 27 11:32:42 <MohammadAG> wouldn't a WMD work too? :P
Dec 27 11:32:45 <DocScrutinizer> best way: low level format the HDD
Dec 27 11:32:47 <MohammadAG> GuySoft, it's dead, for now
Dec 27 11:33:07 * MohammadAG would bomb it, fastest way
Dec 27 11:33:16 <DocScrutinizer> impossible to recover, despite the legends suggesting different
Dec 27 11:34:11 <timeless_xchat> mohammadag, thanks, fixed
Dec 27 11:35:19 <DocScrutinizer> please somebody pinf the chanops when maemo.org is back to life
Dec 27 11:35:21 * MohammadAG uses /cs topic sometimes, lets chanserv set the topic
Dec 27 11:35:24 <DocScrutinizer> ping*
Dec 27 11:36:02 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: that's much more inconvenient than that nice texteditor box in Konversation
Dec 27 11:36:52 <MohammadAG> A team of highly trained monkeys has been dispatched to deal with this situation.
Dec 27 11:36:54 <MohammadAG> If you see them, show them this information:
Dec 27 11:36:59 <MohammadAG> maemo.org's down
Dec 27 11:37:02 <DocScrutinizer> there's some topicappend, maybe even prepend, but anyway
Dec 27 11:39:26 <DocScrutinizer> time for 12648430
Dec 27 11:44:39 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> good morning all, hope you all having a good holidays
Dec 27 11:48:46 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> busy working on a portrait homescreen using qbw. i can get the icons fine and even done a portrait flipclock.
Dec 27 11:49:44 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> does anyone know how to do vertical text instead of horizontal in qbw?
Dec 27 11:54:51 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: ^^^
Dec 27 11:55:14 <MohammadAG> Never used QBW DocScrutinizer
Dec 27 11:55:42 <alterego> Queen Beacon thingy?
Dec 27 11:55:47 <DocScrutinizer> not even sure what it is. Anyway thought portrait is interesting for you
Dec 27 11:55:59 <MohammadAG> yeah alterego
Dec 27 11:56:10 <alterego> Yeah, never used it myself.
Dec 27 11:56:12 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, it's just a widget that executes commands
Dec 27 11:56:21 <MohammadAG> basically, it's still landscape
Dec 27 11:56:30 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, know queenB
Dec 27 11:56:32 <BluesLee> qbw is cool
Dec 27 11:56:53 <alterego> My girlfriend is going to Paris for two weeks tomorrow, can you imagine the hackathon I'm gonna be having :D
Dec 27 11:56:59 <MohammadAG> It's cool, but it's not the portrait that interests me :P
Dec 27 11:57:11 <BluesLee> portrait?
Dec 27 11:57:21 <MohammadAG> alterego, yeah, she'll find you high on Qt when she's back
Dec 27 11:57:21 <DocScrutinizer> I started with desktop execution widget and never felt like giving quennB a try
Dec 27 11:57:45 <alterego> I wonder how we could manage portrait widgets in hildon.
Dec 27 11:57:50 <RST38h> EHLO Mohammad, Doc
Dec 27 11:57:56 <MohammadAG> he isn't alterego
Dec 27 11:58:02 <MohammadAG> he's just adding rotated contents
Dec 27 11:58:08 <BluesLee> i dont need portrait mode
Dec 27 11:58:12 <MohammadAG> hey RST38h
Dec 27 11:58:24 <DocScrutinizer> hi RST38h
Dec 27 11:58:25 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> yeah, rotated the png files for flipclock
Dec 27 11:58:37 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> i'd like to replicate the statud
Dec 27 11:58:51 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> s menu that d4rklar did
Dec 27 11:59:07 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> http://d4rklar.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d34xus9
Dec 27 11:59:34 <alterego> MohammadAG: I know, just wondering if we can do a hildon desktop with portrait support one day.
Dec 27 11:59:56 <DocScrutinizer> that's why I pinged MohammadAG
Dec 27 12:00:29 <alterego> I'd also like configurable shortcuts.
Dec 27 12:00:47 <DocScrutinizer> HA
Dec 27 12:01:15 <alterego> keyboard short cuts, moving out xterm binding and such to an ini file or something.
Dec 27 12:01:24 <alterego> Hell, gconf I don't care :)
Dec 27 12:01:48 <DocScrutinizer> well, xchat keybindings *are* an ini file
Dec 27 12:01:55 <alterego> pfft
Dec 27 12:02:19 <alterego> I mean hd bindings like ctrl-shift-x
Dec 27 12:02:39 <DocScrutinizer> we need some system wide universal shortcut handler though
Dec 27 12:02:51 <alterego> I want ctrl-shift-w to be web
Dec 27 12:02:57 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: well, it is
Dec 27 12:03:42 <Jaffa> re
Dec 27 12:03:56 <DocScrutinizer> augmented functionality *inside* kbd driver
Dec 27 12:04:49 <DocScrutinizer> also aware of some system/device-states, like which app has focus, portrait/landscape, a few more
Dec 27 12:05:17 <alterego> Well, a better shortcutd which is context aware then
Dec 27 12:05:31 <DocScrutinizer> capable of recording and playback of true macros, and sending out dbus and doing execve or other means to start processes
Dec 27 12:05:43 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: so, how's it feel?
Dec 27 12:06:05 <DocScrutinizer> multi-key shortcuts
Dec 27 12:07:44 <DocScrutinizer> blue-ctl-F, 1 -> F1 .  Blue-ctl-F, DOT, 1 -> F11
Dec 27 12:11:47 <Khertan_> Morning all !
Dec 27 12:12:29 <DocScrutinizer> blue-down, ctl-down, UP, blue-up, <[0-7]{3} "octal number">, ctl-up  -> arbitrary keycode as defined by "octal number", as in ALTGR+NK on a PC
Dec 27 12:15:42 <Khertan_> DocScrutinizer: ?
Dec 27 12:16:37 * DocScrutinizer just noticed this ALTGR+NK doesn't work on his laptop and wonders if that's been a function of the keyboard's controller
Dec 27 12:20:16 <DocScrutinizer> Khertan_: ??
Dec 27 12:21:12 * Khertan_ didn't just understand what you were talking about blue-down, ctl-down ... 
Dec 27 12:21:23 <Khertan_> s/what/why
Dec 27 12:23:29 <DocScrutinizer> Khertan_: I tossed out a few examples of how to use the free multikey macro function in jrkbddrv (yet to come) to input function keys or arbitrary keys of which you know the keycode
Dec 27 12:24:56 <DocScrutinizer> just creating a forth alike macro definition language in my mind
Dec 27 12:25:30 <DocScrutinizer> s/alike//
Dec 27 12:25:31 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: just creating a forth  macro definition language in my mind
Dec 27 12:28:58 <comawhite> :þ
Dec 27 12:31:14 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, after lots of network diagnostics
Dec 27 12:31:18 <MohammadAG> it's failing to download
Dec 27 12:31:23 <timeless_mbp> ?! :(
Dec 27 12:31:41 <DocScrutinizer> I anticipate the bitching and flaming of kernel devels about layering violations, when such a driver dared to talk to dbus
Dec 27 12:31:58 <MohammadAG> HAM gets the size and all, but not the deb itself
Dec 27 12:35:57 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, ever used flash LED hardware?
Dec 27 12:36:12 <DocScrutinizer> what's that?
Dec 27 12:36:26 <RST38h> Trolls 2.0 at tmo
Dec 27 12:37:03 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, a friend's N95 has an always on flash
Dec 27 12:37:05 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: sure, as they can't troll on [^(talk)].maemo.org
Dec 27 12:38:07 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: you mean the flash/videolight LED(s) won't ever shut down, or what?
Dec 27 12:39:00 * DocScrutinizer ponders to prepare a tea, for the leaves
Dec 27 12:39:04 <MohammadAG> yes, the white LED, but the N95 has no flashlight support
Dec 27 12:39:41 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Dec 27 12:39:42 <MohammadAG> so i'm guessing it's a HW problem
Dec 27 12:39:46 <DocScrutinizer> prolly
Dec 27 12:39:55 <DocScrutinizer> or reflash :-P
Dec 27 12:40:03 <MohammadAG> he did
Dec 27 12:40:21 <DocScrutinizer> well, then it's obviously hw
Dec 27 12:40:50 <DocScrutinizer> a quite amazing bug
Dec 27 12:41:08 <DocScrutinizer> well, not really
Dec 27 12:41:43 <DocScrutinizer> a short in one transistor in the controller chip is sufficient to cause this
Dec 27 12:42:11 <MohammadAG> i'm surprised it hasn't died yet
Dec 27 12:42:19 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: grr
Dec 27 12:42:23 * timeless_mbp doesn't get it
Dec 27 12:42:27 <timeless_mbp> this worked fine earlier
Dec 27 12:42:32 <DocScrutinizer> this transistor has to cope with rather considerable current spikes, so it's not unusual it fails that way
Dec 27 12:42:33 <MohammadAG> as again, it has no support for a flashlight
Dec 27 12:42:33 * timeless_mbp wonders what else is wrong
Dec 27 12:44:54 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: what means "no support for flashlight"?
Dec 27 12:45:29 <MohammadAG> the N95 can't turn on its fashlight
Dec 27 12:45:46 <DocScrutinizer> errr, so it's a dummy?
Dec 27 12:45:52 <MohammadAG> normally that is
Dec 27 12:45:55 <Sicelo> MohammadAG: could be a problem with ribbon cable
Dec 27 12:45:56 <DocScrutinizer> that started to emit light ?
Dec 27 12:46:15 * alterego wonders how long it's gonna be until maemo is back up ..
Dec 27 12:46:16 <trx> he meant you cant turn it on whenever u want
Dec 27 12:46:17 <MohammadAG> no, it's only supported in still mode
Dec 27 12:46:36 <MohammadAG> alterego, NEVAR
Dec 27 12:46:45 <trx> lol
Dec 27 12:46:50 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: oh
Dec 27 12:46:57 <timeless_mbp> it's trying to get gettext from extras
Dec 27 12:47:03 <timeless_mbp> and maemo.org's repo is hosed
Dec 27 12:47:04 <timeless_mbp> ...
Dec 27 12:47:08 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Dec 27 12:47:12 <timeless_mbp> note to self: don't depend on maemo.org infra
Dec 27 12:47:12 <MohammadAG> lol
Dec 27 12:47:33 <DocScrutinizer> I was too humble to suggest to check that
Dec 27 12:48:22 <timeless_mbp> lemme see if i can pull a gettext out of a hat
Dec 27 12:48:27 * timeless_mbp wonders where such a hat would be
Dec 27 12:48:59 <DocScrutinizer> anywhere upstream?
Dec 27 12:49:01 <crashanddie> GAN900: kindle arrived
Dec 27 12:49:28 <crashanddie> GAN900: it proudly said "Congratulations for purchasing your first Kindle, Elisabeth"
Dec 27 12:49:39 <DocScrutinizer> HAHAHA
Dec 27 12:49:41 <timeless_mbp> Elisabeth?
Dec 27 12:49:52 * MohammadAG has it
Dec 27 12:50:01 <crashanddie> well, GAN bought it for me, probably with his sister's account or something, I dunno
Dec 27 12:50:02 <MohammadAG> gettext that is
Dec 27 12:50:07 <timeless_mbp> oh
Dec 27 12:50:27 <crashanddie> and if you don't check "This is a gift", it links it to the account
Dec 27 12:50:41 <MohammadAG> crashanddie, admit it, you changed your name .P
Dec 27 12:50:48 <timeless_mbp> crashanddie: does the account include any interesting books? :)
Dec 27 12:50:56 <crashanddie> nha, just a sample
Dec 27 12:51:08 <DocScrutinizer> cool, so now you can access Elisabeth's Amazon account?
Dec 27 12:51:10 <crashanddie> about nurses or something
Dec 27 12:51:21 <crashanddie> nha, I deregistered it, and created an account for the girlfriend
Dec 27 12:51:29 <crashanddie> she's happy as, really enjoys the device
Dec 27 12:51:44 <crashanddie> and the fact she can now use her kindle to read her email without using my computer is double bonus
Dec 27 12:52:04 <DocScrutinizer> for her or for you? :-P
Dec 27 12:52:08 <crashanddie> me :D
Dec 27 12:52:10 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: so, um... wanna try using a command line and dealing w/ the dependency failures? :(
Dec 27 12:52:22 * timeless_mbp now doesn't have the package installed on this device :(
Dec 27 12:53:07 <RST38h> crashanddie: You do understand that Amazon now knows you as Elizabeth? =)
Dec 27 12:53:18 <crashanddie> nope, they don;t
Dec 27 12:53:26 <crashanddie> cuz GAN bought the kindle, not me :P
Dec 27 12:53:27 <DocScrutinizer> they do!
Dec 27 12:53:53 <DocScrutinizer> they know EVRYTNG
Dec 27 12:54:00 <crashanddie> hehe
Dec 27 12:54:03 <crashanddie> anyway, 'later
Dec 27 12:54:08 <crashanddie> happy happy, joy joy
Dec 27 12:54:55 <DocScrutinizer> once you stepped on the kindle, they even know the size of your shoes
Dec 27 12:55:26 <RST38h> Depends on whether you manage to destroy its wireless antenna quickly enough
Dec 27 12:57:16 <RST38h> Hehe: http://talk.maemo.org/search.php?searchid=9421286
Dec 27 12:58:05 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders what details you can deduce from close monitoring of a persons book reading habits
Dec 27 12:58:25 <RST38h> Is this the final evolutionary stage for TMO posters, or should we expect more "development"?
Dec 27 12:58:46 <RST38h> Doc: DHS says you can deduce if they are terrorists or not
Dec 27 12:58:47 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: hi!
Dec 27 12:58:48 <RST38h> Hello, javispedro
Dec 27 12:59:25 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: >>Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.<<
Dec 27 12:59:59 <javispedro> morning
Dec 27 13:00:14 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: I guess there's room for development
Dec 27 13:01:33 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: (deduce) you also know when is best time to raid their home
Dec 27 13:02:02 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, installing
Dec 27 13:02:09 <timeless_mbp> :)
Dec 27 13:02:54 <DocScrutinizer> duh
Dec 27 13:06:38 <timeless_mbp> grr
Dec 27 13:06:43 * timeless_mbp kicks maemo.org
Dec 27 13:06:55 * achipa kicks it back
Dec 27 13:06:59 <Venemo> hi again
Dec 27 13:07:07 <RST38h> Doc: "451oF" covers the book thing rather extensively. There isn't much to add.
Dec 27 13:07:07 * noobmonk3y feels betetr after a nice little rant on tmo :)
Dec 27 13:07:10 <noobmonk3y> hey Venemo
Dec 27 13:07:12 <noobmonk3y> hey achipa
Dec 27 13:07:19 <achipa> hey noobmonk3y
Dec 27 13:07:37 <noobmonk3y> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=904253&postcount=804 :P
Dec 27 13:07:48 <pupnik> hey, where there's rants there's life
Dec 27 13:08:02 <noobmonk3y> lol pupnik v true :)
Dec 27 13:08:14 <Venemo> hello noobmonk3y :)
Dec 27 13:08:15 <noobmonk3y> haven't had a good rant in a while :)
Dec 27 13:08:34 <MohammadAG> hey noobmonk3y
Dec 27 13:08:36 <MohammadAG> wb Venemo
Dec 27 13:08:57 <noobmonk3y> hey MohammadAG!! :)
Dec 27 13:09:07 <noobmonk3y> happy xmas and all the trimmings etc :p
Dec 27 13:09:12 <noobmonk3y> if you celebrate xmas? lol
Dec 27 13:09:20 <Venemo> he doesn't
Dec 27 13:09:37 <noobmonk3y> oh well, booze and extra bacon... lol allways a reason to celebrate ;) hehe
Dec 27 13:09:38 <MohammadAG> Merry Christmas though :P
Dec 27 13:10:36 <noobmonk3y> that guy does have a point, the new healthchek does suck lol
Dec 27 13:10:43 <noobmonk3y> so time for another rebuild i think
Dec 27 13:10:58 <noobmonk3y> but thats the point of developing, try try try again lol
Dec 27 13:11:26 <Venemo> hehe
Dec 27 13:11:31 <Venemo> noobmonk3y, I added one of your images to Puzzle Master if you don't mind
Dec 27 13:11:37 <noobmonk3y> Venemo, of course not!
Dec 27 13:11:39 <noobmonk3y> :) :) :)
Dec 27 13:11:50 <noobmonk3y> thankyou! :)
Dec 27 13:11:54 <Venemo> no, I thank you
Dec 27 13:12:07 <Venemo> people like your pic, so I might add another one someday
Dec 27 13:12:19 <noobmonk3y> hehehe cool! ty! you welcome to add any you want :0
Dec 27 13:12:45 <Venemo> ok, thx noobmonk3y :)
Dec 27 13:18:51 <Khertan_> [14:08] <noobmonk3y> but thats the point of developing, try try try again lol <<< it s try, fail, try, fail, try, fail again :)
Dec 27 13:19:05 <DocScrutinizer> noobmonk3y: try - fail - try harder - fail better :-P
Dec 27 13:19:14 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: did it install?
Dec 27 13:20:33 <DocScrutinizer> btw, MohammadAG and bacon? I don't see those two going together well
Dec 27 13:21:13 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, yep, and the strings got changed correctly
Dec 27 13:21:21 <timeless_mbp> how's it feel?
Dec 27 13:21:23 <DocScrutinizer> noobmonk3y: MohammadAG also said he's not interested in booze
Dec 27 13:21:49 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, a bit weird, I'm used to long strings in settings P
Dec 27 13:21:54 <timeless_mbp> heh
Dec 27 13:22:02 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: not all strings are shorter
Dec 27 13:22:11 <timeless_mbp> if the strings need to be longer to explain what they're doing, they'll be longer
Dec 27 13:41:41 <libben> this is my repos list http://pastebin.com/GLsu4b8J
Dec 27 13:42:10 <timeless_mbp> libben: perhaps you should read the channel topic?
Dec 27 13:42:10 <timeless_mbp> or the last 10 lines of the irc channel...
Dec 27 13:42:10 <yacc> Shapeshifter, well, my guess would be that the Exchange ActiveSync quality piece of software on googles side is far from perfect. Furthermore the connectivity of the n900 via WLAN/cellular networks is not always perfect, can be that the ActiveSync client is sensitive to say slow DNS or other problems like that.
Dec 27 13:42:10 <libben> heh =) so maemo is down for the moment
Dec 27 13:42:14 <DocScrutinizer> wb everybody
Dec 27 13:42:14 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, never disable sync, even if the battery is 0%
Dec 27 13:42:14 <Shapeshifter> yacc: mhh. I'll try erminig
Dec 27 13:42:14 <MohammadAG> i.e keep syncing till the battery dies
Dec 27 13:42:14 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: ok
Dec 27 13:42:14 <loft306> ta
Dec 27 13:42:20 <GeneralAntilles> USPS fail.
Dec 27 13:42:21 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: good
Dec 27 13:42:21 <timeless_mbp> so i guessed correctly
Dec 27 13:42:21 <DocScrutinizer> ~wtf usps
Dec 27 13:42:21 <infobot> Gee...  I don't know what usps means...
Dec 27 13:42:21 <DocScrutinizer> ~dict usps
Dec 27 13:42:21 <infobot> Dictionary 'usps' an independent federal agency that provides mail processing and delivery service for individuals and businesses in the United States
Dec 27 13:42:21 <yacc> Shapeshifter, as the n900 software stack uses mostly just normal socket operations for networking, hence if they've used some ready-to-use component for ActiveSync it might be nonperfect for the spotty network connectivity that a mobile device might provide.
Dec 27 13:42:21 <DocScrutinizer> which reminds me about the rsync job I planned to hook up to my laptop's crontab
Dec 27 13:42:23 <DocScrutinizer> or should I trigger that rsync from N900?
Dec 27 13:42:25 * DocScrutinizer ponders
Dec 27 13:42:27 * yacc hates iphones, ...
Dec 27 13:43:34 <yacc> Shapeshifter, if it makes you happy, I do have similar problems, but then, I don't care overly, as the n900 has become the canon of my data, as I'm connecting it via VNC when at the desktop, ...
Dec 27 13:45:50 <yacc> Btw, is there a way to get an alternate word completion on the n900? (if it knows more than one word for the prefix, so I can view all the known endings?)
Dec 27 13:47:59 <Shapeshifter> yacc: seems like erminig works okay. it can sync multiple calendars which is great
Dec 27 13:48:00 <DocScrutinizer> what's QThreadStorage ?
Dec 27 13:48:21 <yacc> erminig?
Dec 27 13:48:30 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: My guess would Thread-Local storage?
Dec 27 13:49:02 <DocScrutinizer> (x86) kate: QThreadStorage: Thread 0x8050008 exited after QThreadStorage 2147483636 destroyed
Dec 27 13:49:24 <DocScrutinizer> I wonder why I'd be interested in that
Dec 27 13:52:20 <johnsq> Hi
Dec 27 13:52:40 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: Well, you are interested in creation/destruction of almost any object in C++. Actually you might be interested in that even in garbage-collected languages, ...
Dec 27 13:53:14 <DocScrutinizer> but not as a user running kate from cmdline :-D
Dec 27 13:54:07 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: Well, you know how it is with debugging messages, ...
Dec 27 13:54:15 <DocScrutinizer> yeah :-S
Dec 27 13:55:54 <DocScrutinizer> lazy coders assuming you have to run their app 2>/dev/null 1>&2, just because they're too sloppy to clean out their debug printfs properly
Dec 27 13:56:16 <johnsq> DocScrutinizer: :)
Dec 27 13:56:31 <javispedro> god no
Dec 27 13:56:45 <javispedro> you should reward those lazy developers
Dec 27 13:56:59 <javispedro> they're a godsend when you're trying to RE some component =)
Dec 27 13:57:39 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, but actually I'd appreciate more if they'd regard --debug cmdline parameter
Dec 27 13:58:00 <loft306> vtann so wget for the n900?
Dec 27 13:58:04 <loft306> err
Dec 27 13:58:16 <loft306> hat no wget for the n900?
Dec 27 13:58:19 <loft306> vtan
Dec 27 13:58:22 <loft306> crap
Dec 27 13:58:29 <loft306> what no wget for the n900?
Dec 27 13:58:33 <DocScrutinizer> wazzup?
Dec 27 13:58:44 <loft306> not my typing yet
Dec 27 13:59:57 <loft306> i ttisk im about to set up the bitt to use deb packages
Dec 27 14:00:02 <DocScrutinizer> Package: wget
Dec 27 14:00:03 <DocScrutinizer> Versions:
Dec 27 14:00:05 <DocScrutinizer> 1.10.2-2osso3 (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_fremantle-1.2_free_binary-armel_Packages) (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle-1.2_free_binary-armel_Packages) (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-testing_dists_fremantle-1.2_free_binary-armel_Packages) (/var/lib/dpkg/status)
Dec 27 14:00:20 <loft306> vwhy cant i findthat DocScrutinizer
Dec 27 14:00:49 <DocScrutinizer> no idea
Dec 27 14:00:56 <loft306> i got tnesting
Dec 27 14:00:58 <DocScrutinizer> apt-get install wget?
Dec 27 14:01:55 <DocScrutinizer> though right atm you might face problems with repos down
Dec 27 14:02:24 <Spookje> repos seem to be back up again..
Dec 27 14:02:30 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Dec 27 14:02:37 <Spookje> somewhat....
Dec 27 14:02:45 <loft306> yay used apt first time on the thing
Dec 27 14:04:30 <DocScrutinizer> maemo.org semi-alive, wiki.m.o still dead
Dec 27 14:04:47 <Spookje> bugs is also dead..
Dec 27 14:05:24 <psycho_oreos> yeah they were squished because the when httpd died it landed on the bugs
Dec 27 14:05:30 <psycho_oreos> ;p
Dec 27 14:08:21 * pupnik pictures an alternate 2007 with a series of phones and tablets running maemo
Dec 27 14:09:30 <pupnik> on the other hand that was probably just too early
Dec 27 14:16:45 <loft306> DocScrutinizer trip ower the powercord?
Dec 27 14:17:39 <javispedro> he tripped but couldn't recover balance right until finland, where the power cord is
Dec 27 14:17:55 <loft306>  :)
Dec 27 14:18:02 <trumee> timeless_mbp: The gsm applet looks ugly now
Dec 27 14:18:13 <timeless_mbp> trumee: picture?
Dec 27 14:18:17 <trumee> timeless_mbp: The text is too big
Dec 27 14:18:44 <timeless_mbp> (or url where i can install it, but given that maemo.org is shaky...)
Dec 27 14:19:15 <loft306> updating and the timeless updates taking forever
Dec 27 14:19:26 <trumee> timeless_mbp: its is called 2G/3G applet  i think
Dec 27 14:19:39 <timeless_mbp> loft306: you blaming me for something?
Dec 27 14:19:51 <loft306> naht
Dec 27 14:19:54 <loft306> sah
Dec 27 14:19:57 <loft306> crap
Dec 27 14:19:58 <trumee> timeless_mbp: 3G/2G/Dual Mode Selection Applet
Dec 27 14:20:01 <loft306> nah
Dec 27 14:20:13 <timeless_mbp> trumee: afaict, the maemo repositories are unhappy
Dec 27 14:20:21 <timeless_mbp> which means it isn't practical for me to install, picture please?
Dec 27 14:21:03 <loft306> always stuck at 99%
Dec 27 14:21:07 <trumee> timeless_mbp: what is the keystroke for screenshot?
Dec 27 14:21:13 <timeless_mbp> ctrl-shift-p
Dec 27 14:22:03 <loft306> tey anyone get sasl working is xchat or irssi for freesode as the n900?
Dec 27 14:22:15 <loft306> on the
Dec 27 14:22:31 <trumee> timeless_mbp: strange it is not capturing on my device
Dec 27 14:22:50 <loft306> i know i need prob perl tostart with
Dec 27 14:22:58 <timeless_mbp> trumee: um, it goes to ~/MyDocs/.images/Screenshots/ or something
Dec 27 14:25:33 <trumee> timeless_mbp: http://www.flickr.com/photos/67572716@N00/5296843522/
Dec 27 14:25:46 <timeless_mbp> oh, cute
Dec 27 14:25:49 <timeless_mbp> yeah, um...
Dec 27 14:26:14 <timeless_mbp> using strings from another domain is a bad idea
Dec 27 14:26:30 <DocScrutinizer> ctl like "I'm in control", shift like "you might slip off the table!" and p like "print-screen now!"
Dec 27 14:26:47 <trumee> timeless_mbp: maybe the defaults were better.
Dec 27 14:28:10 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: any idea how can i get to the previous command i typed in xchat. Arrow keys causes the window to scroll only in xchat.
Dec 27 14:28:37 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: i followed your setting of xchat if you remember.
Dec 27 14:28:38 <timeless_mbp> trumee: please switch your locale to Polish
Dec 27 14:28:43 <timeless_mbp> and try the applet
Dec 27 14:28:53 <timeless_mbp> or finnish
Dec 27 14:29:04 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: heh, that scrolling by arrows was something *I* set on *my* xchat some 4 weeks ago :-P
Dec 27 14:29:12 <trumee> timeless_mbp: how?
Dec 27 14:29:13 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Dec 27 14:29:14 <DocScrutinizer> ok
Dec 27 14:29:16 <timeless_mbp> potentially czeck or danish
Dec 27 14:29:22 <trumee> timeless_mbp: Regional Settings?
Dec 27 14:29:28 <timeless_mbp> trumee: open settings>language and region
Dec 27 14:29:30 <DocScrutinizer> I also mapped cmd history to shift-up/down
Dec 27 14:30:00 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: i would like that :)
Dec 27 14:30:28 <trumee> timeless_mbp: there is no Finland in the country list?
Dec 27 14:30:45 <timeless_mbp> select in this order: Polski,  Suomi, Čeština, Dansk
Dec 27 14:30:51 <timeless_mbp> not country list, language
Dec 27 14:30:55 <timeless_mbp> (requires reboot)
Dec 27 14:31:02 <loft306> im thinking easier to kust use TOR
Dec 27 14:31:02 <trumee> timeless_mbp: yeah, now rebooting
Dec 27 14:31:26 <timeless_mbp> trumee: i think you'll find that at least the first two, and potentially the last two all fail
Dec 27 14:31:33 <timeless_mbp> and those are official localizations
Dec 27 14:31:45 <trumee> timeless_mbp: i selected Polska in the Country and it went for a reboot
Dec 27 14:31:54 <timeless_mbp> trumee: not country, language :)
Dec 27 14:31:58 <timeless_mbp> (There's a difference...)
Dec 27 14:32:07 <timeless_mbp> anyway, if you do find that they fail, please file a bug against that applet and explain that it isn't ok to use strings from another domain
Dec 27 14:32:21 <timeless_mbp> nor is it a good idea to assume that strings will fit in a constrained space (provide picture from Polski)
Dec 27 14:32:26 <trumee> timeless_mbp:No i changed the Country to Polska, not the language
Dec 27 14:32:32 <timeless_mbp> trumee: err
Dec 27 14:32:41 <timeless_mbp> changing the country won't do anything useful :(
Dec 27 14:32:58 <DocScrutinizer> fsckngshit! once konqueror got a webpage with broken or missing CSS loaded, there's obviously no way to make it reload the whole thing and recover the CSS
Dec 27 14:33:09 <trumee> timeless_mbp:ok, i am going to set Language as Polski and Conutry to UK
Dec 27 14:33:15 <timeless_mbp> trumee: ok
Dec 27 14:33:34 <timeless_mbp> (the country item is 99% useless fwiw, it does stuff but only rarely)
Dec 27 14:34:03 <timeless_mbp> (getting regions to work is incredibly hard, it makes getting languages seem easy)
Dec 27 14:34:15 <trumee> timeless_mbp: i noticed that whenever translations are updated, the widgets are killed from the home screen
Dec 27 14:34:37 <timeless_mbp> trumee: as in they don't come back ever?
Dec 27 14:34:46 <timeless_mbp> (i obviously don't use widgets)
Dec 27 14:34:47 <trumee> timeless_mbp: i have add them again
Dec 27 14:34:50 <timeless_mbp> cute
Dec 27 14:35:06 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: any idea how to ask hildon-home (?) to quit nicely?
Dec 27 14:35:15 <DocScrutinizer> killall?
Dec 27 14:35:17 <timeless_mbp> trumee: basically i need the desktop to relaunch, so i kill it
Dec 27 14:35:30 <timeless_mbp> but it's likely that desktop assumes it was crashed by one of your applets
Dec 27 14:35:37 <timeless_mbp> and thus chooses not to start them the next time
Dec 27 14:36:02 <DocScrutinizer> nah, iirc it does
Dec 27 14:36:41 <trumee> timeless_mbp: http://www.flickr.com/photos/67572716@N00/5296870532/
Dec 27 14:37:20 <timeless_mbp> trumee: open settings
Dec 27 14:37:26 * timeless_mbp looks for the relevant setting
Dec 27 14:37:41 <timeless_mbp> tap the Blue Phone icon
Dec 27 14:37:44 <Spookje>  do a /etc/init.d/hildon-desktop restart ?
Dec 27 14:37:50 <timeless_mbp> (i can give you a translation of Blue Phone if you like, but)
Dec 27 14:38:06 <trumee> timeless_mbp: i have already reverted to English :(
Dec 27 14:38:17 <timeless_mbp> trumee: grr
Dec 27 14:38:20 <timeless_mbp> ok, that's fine
Dec 27 14:38:23 <timeless_mbp> well, no
Dec 27 14:38:26 <timeless_mbp> it's only fine if you trust me
Dec 27 14:38:36 <timeless_mbp> the string is "Dwuzakresowa"
Dec 27 14:38:41 <timeless_mbp> which obviously doesn't fit
Dec 27 14:38:56 <timeless_mbp> anyway, lemme talk you through finding it in Phone in English
Dec 27 14:39:04 <trumee> timeless_mbp: ok
Dec 27 14:39:05 <timeless_mbp> so you can file a bug and explain which string was being *abused*
Dec 27 14:39:22 <timeless_mbp> open Settings>Phone; scroll to Network
Dec 27 14:39:34 <timeless_mbp> the second drop down "Use 3G"
Dec 27 14:39:41 <timeless_mbp> note the available space for the button
Dec 27 14:39:56 <timeless_mbp> and consider the values
Dec 27 14:40:03 <trumee> timeless_mbp: it is a big button
Dec 27 14:41:03 <timeless_mbp>  "Duální"  "Dobbelt"  "Dual"  "Dual"  "Dual"  "Dual"  "Dual"  "Kaksitoimisuus"  "Double"  "Double"  "Duale"  "Dual"  "Dobbelt"  "Dwuzakresowa"  "Duplo"  "Duplo"  "3G+GSM"  "Dual"
Dec 27 14:41:19 <timeless_mbp> are the strings you have (roughly)
Dec 27 14:41:35 <timeless_mbp> 3G+GSM is not particularly long when compared to the others...
Dec 27 14:42:26 <timeless_mbp> trumee: the right UI here is two buttons both of which can be depressed
Dec 27 14:42:32 <timeless_mbp> [ GSM ] [ 3G ]
Dec 27 14:43:09 <timeless_mbp> so you could have: [=GSM=] [ 3G ], [ GSM ] [=3G=], [=GSM=] [=3G=], [ GSM ] [ 3G ]
Dec 27 14:43:20 <ShadowJK> "Kaksitoimisuus" :-)
Dec 27 14:43:30 <timeless_mbp> meaning GSM only, 3G only, Dual, <turn off cellular module>
Dec 27 14:43:49 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: ? admiring the finnish?
Dec 27 14:43:54 <tybollt_> sjk: Mit�� maxan virtaheppo?
Dec 27 14:44:42 <ShadowJK> My rhino?
Dec 27 14:44:49 <tybollt_> =)
Dec 27 14:44:51 <timeless_mbp> tybollt_: google things you mean virtahepo
Dec 27 14:45:11 <timeless_mbp> and is that roughly "how much is this hipo?" ?
Dec 27 14:45:22 <ShadowJK> timeless_mbp, that's nice UI, enabling tablet mode through same thing :-)
Dec 27 14:45:24 <timeless_mbp> (because google translate can't deal with it)
Dec 27 14:45:30 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: yep
Dec 27 14:45:40 <timeless_mbp> please send feedback to the author
Dec 27 14:45:43 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp: it's a hybrid though. When using GSM you're in a naming space that doesn't know about 3G, rather use UMTS. If you want to use 3G you should refer to GSM as 2G
Dec 27 14:45:50 <tybollt_> timeless_mbp: Yes I know :)
Dec 27 14:46:37 <ShadowJK> tybollt_, you probably have it in your memory as spoken word :-)
Dec 27 14:46:53 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: the target audience is "normal" people, not techies
Dec 27 14:47:06 <DocScrutinizer> exactly. That's why
Dec 27 14:47:08 <timeless_mbp> to me, 2G can include things like Sprint/NexTel's network
Dec 27 14:47:17 <timeless_mbp> or Verizon's network
Dec 27 14:47:17 <DocScrutinizer> no way
Dec 27 14:47:19 <tybollt_> sjk: Very much so... I was thought this gem when I traveled w/ the finlandsb�t for the first time - needless to say lots of alcohol was involved :)
Dec 27 14:47:56 <tybollt_> so - will there be another maemo device or is the next thing out there going to be meego? Is this confirmed yet?
Dec 27 14:47:59 <timeless_mbp> > 2G technologies can be divided into TDMA-based and CDMA-based standards depending on the type of multiplexing used. The main 2G standards are:
Dec 27 14:48:00 <timeless_mbp> -bash: 2G: command not found
Dec 27 14:48:08 * timeless_mbp thanks Terminal.app
Dec 27 14:48:27 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Dec 27 14:48:32 <timeless_mbp> cdmaOne (CDMA-based, commonly referred as simply CDMA in the US), used in the Americas and parts of Asia. Today accounts for about 17% of all subscribers globally
Dec 27 14:48:47 <timeless_mbp> iDEN (TDMA-based), proprietary network used by Nextel in the United States and Telus Mobility in Canada
Dec 27 14:48:56 <DocScrutinizer> anyway the connectivity applet also using 2G and 2.5, rather than GSM
Dec 27 14:49:11 <timeless_mbp> so, anyway, that's why i don't want to use 2G
Dec 27 14:49:35 <timeless_mbp> it's important for the user to understand they're limited to GSM networks
Dec 27 14:49:46 <DocScrutinizer> meh, as if you'd need to teach users about their N900 isn't a CDMA phone
Dec 27 14:49:51 <timeless_mbp> um
Dec 27 14:49:57 <timeless_mbp> iirc we had sales people who didn't know
Dec 27 14:50:10 <DocScrutinizer> so what?
Dec 27 14:50:10 <timeless_mbp> you can check the channel logs for around launch time for all the funnies
Dec 27 14:50:19 <DocScrutinizer> is this a wiki or a button?
Dec 27 14:50:24 <timeless_mbp> button
Dec 27 14:50:27 <javispedro> just be a gnome-like nazi and remove the entire option
Dec 27 14:50:30 <timeless_mbp> (well, drop down)
Dec 27 14:50:38 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: i'm acting as a linguist here
Dec 27 14:50:41 <timeless_mbp> so i can't
Dec 27 14:50:47 <javispedro> why would a user need to choose between UMTS and GSM and "Kaksitoimisuus"
Dec 27 14:50:51 <timeless_mbp> and the reason the item exists has to do w/ power use
Dec 27 14:51:19 <timeless_mbp> the user can choose from Kaksitoimisuus, 3G, GSM
Dec 27 14:51:20 <timeless_mbp> fwiw
Dec 27 14:51:37 <timeless_mbp> and i didn't change the Finnish
Dec 27 14:51:45 <Shapeshifter> gee tethering is involved when only using cli tools
Dec 27 14:51:47 <DocScrutinizer> I'm all for abreviating this to "Kaka"
Dec 27 14:51:59 <javispedro> "High power"/"Low poper"
Dec 27 14:52:02 <javispedro> *power
Dec 27 14:52:19 <javispedro> written in a better sounding way, ofc.
Dec 27 14:52:27 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: anyway, that's why the setting exists
Dec 27 14:52:34 <timeless_mbp> i could change it to talk about power usage
Dec 27 14:52:41 <DocScrutinizer> friggin shit. I hope I'm free to keep the short nice international 2G/3G/DUAL
Dec 27 14:52:44 <timeless_mbp> but it wouldn't help the guy who's doing an applet borrowing strings
Dec 27 14:52:57 <ShadowJK> javispedro, low power, high power, high speed
Dec 27 14:52:59 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: international?
Dec 27 14:53:10 <timeless_mbp> http://www.flickr.com/photos/67572716@N00/5296843522/lightbox/
Dec 27 14:53:13 <timeless_mbp> err
Dec 27 14:53:19 <DocScrutinizer> well, dual probably greek or latin
Dec 27 14:53:34 <ShadowJK> 2g+3g :-)
Dec 27 14:53:35 <timeless_mbp> http://www.flickr.com/photos/67572716@N00/5296870532/lightbox/
Dec 27 14:53:45 <ShadowJK> which makes timeless' suggestion make even more sense
Dec 27 14:54:04 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: not all of our languages are related to greek/latin
Dec 27 14:54:09 * timeless_mbp thanks Russian and Finnish
Dec 27 14:54:09 <DocScrutinizer> which suggestion? Kaka?
Dec 27 14:54:21 <Shapeshifter> ppp is crap
Dec 27 14:54:23 <timeless_mbp> oh gah
Dec 27 14:54:26 <Shapeshifter> ._.
Dec 27 14:54:32 <timeless_mbp> OpenVPN is nearly as stupid as Nemo
Dec 27 14:54:35 * timeless_mbp sighs
Dec 27 14:54:48 * MohammadAG stabs ChanServ 
Dec 27 14:55:11 * ShadowJK likes openvpn :-)
Dec 27 14:55:22 <ShadowJK> I used to do ssh+ppp before discovering openvpn
Dec 27 14:55:23 <MohammadAG> http://i54.tinypic.com/25hg2kl.jpg can't get it right
Dec 27 14:55:27 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: would you be willing to file bugs for me?
Dec 27 14:56:08 * MohammadAG hates filing bugs
Dec 27 14:56:14 <MohammadAG> got a crapload of them
Dec 27 14:56:33 <ShadowJK> is it related to applets, or routing scripts, or default gateway getting replaced, because I don't use any of those features myself
Dec 27 14:56:36 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: yeah, save is misplaced :)
Dec 27 14:56:50 * DocScrutinizer wonders how timeless_mbp will include the explaing popup to signal applet, about what's the real meaning of 2G
Dec 27 14:56:51 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: status menu thing
Dec 27 14:57:05 <ShadowJK> Yeah I don't use that thing
Dec 27 14:57:12 <timeless_mbp> can you file the bug anyway?
Dec 27 14:57:15 <timeless_mbp> picture is included for free
Dec 27 14:57:20 <timeless_mbp> (thanks to trumee )
Dec 27 14:57:39 <ShadowJK> okay
Dec 27 14:57:44 <DocScrutinizer> but I guess consistency isn't a mandatory property of maemo GUI
Dec 27 14:57:48 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: ditch the save button
Dec 27 14:57:56 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: consistency?
Dec 27 14:58:02 <timeless_mbp> do we have that? *anywhere*?
Dec 27 14:58:04 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, why?
Dec 27 14:58:11 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: it looks awful and isn't needed
Dec 27 14:58:27 <timeless_mbp> as long as there's a <go back to previous station> option you can deal w/ frequency
Dec 27 14:58:36 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, it doesn't look awful in landscape mode
Dec 27 14:58:45 * ShadowJK can't seem to access bmo now?
Dec 27 14:58:45 <MohammadAG> I just need to figure out how to make it stretch
Dec 27 14:58:57 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: maemo.org services are probably mostly hosed by snow
Dec 27 14:59:05 <MohammadAG> it's a conspiracy to take down maemo.org
Dec 27 14:59:17 <timeless_mbp> nah, the goal was to take out finnish rail
Dec 27 14:59:21 <timeless_mbp> maemo.org was collateral damage
Dec 27 14:59:23 * MohammadAG holds X- Fade  hostage
Dec 27 14:59:41 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp: obviously not. It's more like a feggin textadventure, where you have to find out by yourself about 2G in system area signal applet is the same thing as GSM in the menu you open by clicking on it
Dec 27 15:00:11 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, what's the problem?
Dec 27 15:00:15 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: not an issue
Dec 27 15:00:20 <timeless_mbp> the ui i propose isn't an equivalent
Dec 27 15:00:24 <timeless_mbp> it does more (tablet mode)
Dec 27 15:00:32 <DocScrutinizer> of course not. People adore text adventures
Dec 27 15:00:56 <MohammadAG> what's the problem/suggestion/bug whatever?
Dec 27 15:01:49 <MohammadAG> oh
Dec 27 15:01:53 <MohammadAG> longer text
Dec 27 15:01:58 <MohammadAG> hardcode it
Dec 27 15:02:25 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: localization rules say not to recycle a string into another context
Dec 27 15:02:35 <DocScrutinizer> WUT???
Dec 27 15:02:38 <timeless_mbp> that's part of where that second param to tr() comes from
Dec 27 15:02:59 <timeless_mbp> you can do tr("3G", "controlpanel") and tr("3G", "statusbarnarrowbutton")
Dec 27 15:03:15 <DocScrutinizer> WTF THIS has to do with using GSM instead of 2G on a button in system menu??
Dec 27 15:03:16 <timeless_mbp> if the localizer chooses to use the same string, great
Dec 27 15:03:39 <timeless_mbp> besides, GSM is what nokia used
Dec 27 15:03:42 <timeless_mbp> i just haven't changed it
Dec 27 15:04:00 <timeless_mbp> oh, actually, i did change it :)
Dec 27 15:04:10 <DocScrutinizer> MEH
Dec 27 15:04:17 <timeless_mbp> so go complain to nokia :)
Dec 27 15:04:41 <DocScrutinizer> I'm fuckin complaining to nobody, as you like to play the fool here
Dec 27 15:04:44 <timeless_mbp> anyway, if the guy wants to use my button pair w/ hard coded 3G and 2G
Dec 27 15:04:54 <timeless_mbp> that's fine by me
Dec 27 15:05:14 <ShadowJK> timeless_mbp, remind me again once bmo comes back?
Dec 27 15:05:31 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: k
Dec 27 15:05:59 <MohammadAG> is the bug against 3g-2g-selection-applet?
Dec 27 15:06:04 <timeless_mbp> yes
Dec 27 15:06:14 <MohammadAG> don't bother, it's qwerty12's
Dec 27 15:06:26 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12's dead, right?
Dec 27 15:06:34 <ShadowJK> yes
Dec 27 15:06:40 <timeless_mbp> nmu? :)
Dec 27 15:06:42 <MohammadAG> in terms of maemo.org, yes
Dec 27 15:06:51 * timeless_mbp wonders what the license is
Dec 27 15:06:55 <timeless_mbp> the bug should be filed anyways
Dec 27 15:07:06 <timeless_mbp> so people are aware that what was done there was wrong and recognized as wrong
Dec 27 15:07:07 <MohammadAG> GPl
Dec 27 15:07:07 <MohammadAG> GPL*
Dec 27 15:07:13 <MohammadAG> 	gtk_button_set_label (GTK_BUTTON (plugin->priv->toggle_button[i]), g_dgettext_localised_or_english ("osso-connectivity-ui", items[i].msgid, items[i].fallback_string));
Dec 27 15:07:36 <timeless_mbp> yeah, totally uncool
Dec 27 15:07:47 <MohammadAG> typoing the .mo filename might return to fallback
Dec 27 15:08:05 <timeless_mbp> heh
Dec 27 15:10:43 <MohammadAG> 	{"conn_va_phone_network_mode_b", "Dual"},
Dec 27 15:10:45 <MohammadAG> 	{"conn_va_phone_network_mode_2g", "GSM"},
Dec 27 15:10:45 <MohammadAG> 	{"conn_va_phone_network_mode_3g", "3G"},
Dec 27 15:10:51 <MohammadAG> that's fallback ^
Dec 27 15:11:42 * DocScrutinizer heads out -- WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Dec 27 15:11:55 * MohammadAG goes back to mediaplayer
Dec 27 15:14:37 <DocScrutinizer> /* next line segfaults if user forgot to stirr his coffee. That's intentional though, and we need it to comply to our own fubar development guidelines */
Dec 27 15:15:28 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, don't forget to include <math.h>
Dec 27 15:15:30 <DocScrutinizer> /* NB: UI developers *never* forget to stirr their coffee */
Dec 27 15:16:09 <timeless_mbp> trumee: i could accidentally hack the binary for that package :)
Dec 27 15:16:18 <timeless_mbp> i currently do it for Nokia Messaging
Dec 27 15:16:46 <timeless_mbp> (i also support reversible hacks, but chose to skip it for nokia messaging)
Dec 27 15:16:52 <MohammadAG> the binary for what package o_O
Dec 27 15:17:07 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: the one whose source you're browsing
Dec 27 15:17:23 <MohammadAG> why hack the binary when you have a source...
Dec 27 15:17:34 <timeless_mbp> dunno where the binary is, but i'm sure someone could tell me
Dec 27 15:17:40 <timeless_mbp> i'd have to do an nmu
Dec 27 15:17:42 <FireFly|n900> Hmm
Dec 27 15:17:48 <timeless_mbp> and test and stuff
Dec 27 15:17:51 <MohammadAG> /usr/lib/hildon-desktop
Dec 27 15:17:55 <FireFly|n900> The maps app isn't open-source, is it?
Dec 27 15:17:57 <MohammadAG> i think
Dec 27 15:18:05 <MohammadAG> no
Dec 27 15:18:14 <FireFly|n900> darn it
Dec 27 15:18:17 <timeless_mbp> FireFly|n900: the maps app is 99% html/js
Dec 27 15:18:26 <FireFly|n900> I'm interested in how the whole JS wrapping works
Dec 27 15:18:28 <timeless_mbp> which means if you want to do interesting things to it, you more or less can
Dec 27 15:18:30 <FireFly|n900> yeah
Dec 27 15:18:46 <ShadowJK> There's a guy on tmo that's been enabling stuff he found disabled in the code, and adding features
Dec 27 15:18:48 <FireFly|n900> But I wanna understand how it launches the html file
Dec 27 15:18:55 <FireFly|n900> Oh
Dec 27 15:18:57 <FireFly|n900> Neat
Dec 27 15:19:27 <FireFly|n900> I've looked around at the JS source (beautified)
Dec 27 15:19:35 <FireFly|n900> It's a bit interesting
Dec 27 15:19:48 <timeless_mbp> oh, awesome
Dec 27 15:19:59 <DocScrutinizer> FireFly|n900: and then there's marble
Dec 27 15:20:10 <timeless_mbp> we have an unreleased fix to the name of a city in Argentina
Dec 27 15:20:12 <FireFly|n900> Hm
Dec 27 15:20:26 <FireFly|n900> timeless_mbp, lol
Dec 27 15:20:38 <timeless_mbp> we also have one which i'm pretty sure won't fit
Dec 27 15:20:42 * timeless_mbp considers testing it
Dec 27 15:20:46 * timeless_mbp bets no one tested it
Dec 27 15:20:47 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, release it :P
Dec 27 15:20:54 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: i don't control the release process
Dec 27 15:21:28 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, how many packages are unreleased?
Dec 27 15:21:37 <MohammadAG> oh and another thing
Dec 27 15:21:40 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: probably most of them
Dec 27 15:21:44 <MohammadAG> why the f is israel missing from the region list
Dec 27 15:21:46 <timeless_mbp> i'm only looking at an amusing subset
Dec 27 15:21:51 <mitsutak1> top
Dec 27 15:22:03 <timeless_mbp> -bash: top: command not found
Dec 27 15:22:08 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, can you check if that was ever fixed?
Dec 27 15:22:18 <MohammadAG> Israel being missing that is
Dec 27 15:22:26 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: hrm, got a bugs.maemo.org bug#?
Dec 27 15:22:34 * timeless_mbp wonders how to use such a number
Dec 27 15:22:40 <MohammadAG> isn't bugs.maemo.org dead?
Dec 27 15:22:44 <timeless_mbp> yes
Dec 27 15:22:51 <timeless_mbp> but i don't actually want to look at bugs.maemo.org
Dec 27 15:22:55 <MohammadAG> bug 10950
Dec 27 15:22:56 <timeless_mbp> i just need it to try to search another db
Dec 27 15:23:19 <timeless_mbp> the other db is up fwiw
Dec 27 15:23:34 <MohammadAG> Bug 10950 - Israel is missing from the list of countries in regional setting
Dec 27 15:23:43 <MohammadAG> <3 Awesome bar
Dec 27 15:24:12 <timeless_mbp> erm, they didn't update the bug?
Dec 27 15:24:48 <MohammadAG> no, why?
Dec 27 15:24:49 <timeless_mbp> the bug got wontfixed in september
Dec 27 15:25:02 <MohammadAG> oh, not sure then
Dec 27 15:25:08 <MohammadAG> I thought it was fixed
Dec 27 15:25:24 <MohammadAG> why wontfix, it's just one damn addition to a list
Dec 27 15:25:39 <timeless_mbp> well, the internal bug that andre_ filed for it with that exact summary and referencing that url is wontfix
Dec 27 15:25:58 <timeless_mbp> > as far as i see there's are no technical obstacles with including Israel (he_IL
Dec 27 15:25:58 <timeless_mbp> > is supported by posix-locales).  i guess simply nobody was interested in
Dec 27 15:25:58 <timeless_mbp> > supporting it.  there are menu other unsupported regions of the world, each of
Dec 27 15:25:58 <timeless_mbp> > them taking up some space, requiring more time to build the package, and the
Dec 27 15:25:59 <timeless_mbp> > testing costs.
Dec 27 15:26:17 <timeless_mbp> > probably you can do it for yourself by mucking around with posix-locales and
Dec 27 15:26:17 <timeless_mbp> > locale-resolver-data.
Dec 27 15:27:01 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: your goal is to end up in the Language and Region control panel?
Dec 27 15:27:10 <MohammadAG> then shove a damn good battery to store time and date so I don't have to select UK then switch to Israel every startup
Dec 27 15:27:21 <timeless_mbp> heh
Dec 27 15:27:23 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, no, region at startup settings screen
Dec 27 15:27:28 <timeless_mbp> i have that problem too
Dec 27 15:27:34 <timeless_mbp> and i'm in Finland
Dec 27 15:27:43 <timeless_mbp> and my region offers me US (Washington, DC)
Dec 27 15:27:46 <MohammadAG> yeah, language and region
Dec 27 15:27:51 <timeless_mbp> so i suffer as much as you do :)
Dec 27 15:28:04 <MohammadAG> LOL finland isn't there
Dec 27 15:28:08 <timeless_mbp> err
Dec 27 15:28:19 <timeless_mbp> the time zone list is limited to those applicable to your regional preference
Dec 27 15:28:27 <timeless_mbp> if you prefer en-US date formats
Dec 27 15:28:36 <timeless_mbp> then you can only have en-US time zones (in the startup wizard)
Dec 27 15:28:42 <MohammadAG> the time zone includes israel
Dec 27 15:28:44 <timeless_mbp> and yes, i complained about that stupidity before we shipped
Dec 27 15:28:57 <timeless_mbp> anyway...
Dec 27 15:28:57 <MohammadAG> but my date & time are reset at mostly each startup
Dec 27 15:29:12 <MohammadAG> so I need to select UK, the change time zone, then fix time and date
Dec 27 15:29:23 <MohammadAG> also, update automatically needs a reboot
Dec 27 15:29:31 <MohammadAG> -> time zone reset again
Dec 27 15:29:38 <timeless_mbp> update automatically shouldn't need a reboot
Dec 27 15:29:43 <timeless_mbp> it certainly doesn't here
Dec 27 15:29:46 <MohammadAG> isn't there a way to set time and date with internet?
Dec 27 15:29:56 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, it doesn't update immediately then
Dec 27 15:29:58 <timeless_mbp> ntp isn't shipped w/ n900
Dec 27 15:30:09 <timeless_mbp> update automatically doesn't mean "update NOW"
Dec 27 15:30:10 <MohammadAG> whereas on other devices they go into offline mode and then back to online mode
Dec 27 15:30:10 <timeless_mbp> :-b
Dec 27 15:30:27 <ShadowJK> mine is set automatically from cellular network when I boot n900, so the startup wizard usually has correct time from that
Dec 27 15:30:35 <MohammadAG> well, it should :P
Dec 27 15:30:50 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: microsoft added an Update Now button in later versions of windows
Dec 27 15:30:56 <timeless_mbp> (for date+time)
Dec 27 15:31:02 <MohammadAG> yes, vista
Dec 27 15:31:11 <MohammadAG> FIXED in Harmattan? :P
Dec 27 15:31:16 <ShadowJK> It varies between operators whether they send time updates only on an active gprs connection or also casually in just idle
Dec 27 15:31:28 <MohammadAG> is MeeGo vista the II? :P
Dec 27 15:31:30 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: what, update-now?
Dec 27 15:31:39 <MohammadAG> yeah
Dec 27 15:31:40 <timeless_mbp> i doubt it'd be there
Dec 27 15:31:45 <timeless_mbp> and i really don't want to look
Dec 27 15:31:53 <timeless_mbp> anyway
Dec 27 15:31:56 <MohammadAG> what's between vista and XP? :P
Dec 27 15:32:00 <timeless_mbp> the startup wizard is "special"
Dec 27 15:32:05 <timeless_mbp> 2003server
Dec 27 15:32:06 <MohammadAG> damn nothing's worse than vista
Dec 27 15:32:17 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, it's a shitload of custom widgets to hide tearing
Dec 27 15:32:41 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: it's a toolkit that wanted to be *the* platform toolkit
Dec 27 15:32:45 <MohammadAG> time widget is awesome
Dec 27 15:32:48 <MohammadAG> scrolling is nice
Dec 27 15:32:53 <timeless_mbp> but it lost a fight and settled for shipping as the startup wizard
Dec 27 15:32:58 <DocScrutinizer> set time automatically != ntp. The time is the one from GSM. Some providers send time msgs infrequently, some never, some send crippled ones
Dec 27 15:33:00 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, then what happened?
Dec 27 15:33:05 <ShadowJK> it's damn near impossible to get them to stop on the right one
Dec 27 15:33:06 <timeless_mbp> it lost a fight
Dec 27 15:33:17 <timeless_mbp> generally the fight to lose is called "ui simplification"
Dec 27 15:33:21 <MohammadAG> what does that mean?
Dec 27 15:33:24 <timeless_mbp> and it doesn't necessarily mean that the ui will get simpler
Dec 27 15:33:37 <timeless_mbp> just that some high level manager decided it was time for "ui simplification"
Dec 27 15:33:49 <timeless_mbp> it's like "tea time", or "basket ball break" or...
Dec 27 15:33:50 <ShadowJK> and when you put down your finger and think you stopped it spinning, thinking "AHA, Gotcha!", and slowly lift your finger, it scrolls one or two places past where you stopped :D
Dec 27 15:34:03 <MohammadAG> so you dropped the toolkit?
Dec 27 15:34:11 <MohammadAG> what's it called?
Dec 27 15:34:14 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: we didn't drop it, it's in startup wizard ;-)
Dec 27 15:34:16 <timeless_mbp> clutter :)
Dec 27 15:34:40 <MohammadAG> but startup wizard is closed, and I'm assuming clutter is dead? :P
Dec 27 15:34:48 <ShadowJK> fmradio is like this too, I can never tune it to the frequency I want :(
Dec 27 15:34:53 <timeless_mbp> actually, the bigger problem was that someone didn't ensure the team working on clutter wouldn't be bought by someone else
Dec 27 15:34:54 <MohammadAG> well, undocumented
Dec 27 15:34:58 <timeless_mbp> and intel bought the team
Dec 27 15:35:00 <Shapeshifter> omg... running erminig -a from the cli with no internet connection pops up a gui dialog with the error.... why would the dev do that ._.
Dec 27 15:35:05 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK++
Dec 27 15:35:08 <TrackerDPP> I have one mobile
Dec 27 15:35:09 <timeless_mbp> which more or less ended any chance of clutter being the central ui for maemo5
Dec 27 15:35:12 <TrackerDPP> Nokia N900
Dec 27 15:35:17 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, indeed
Dec 27 15:35:24 <TrackerDPP> i want to install NeoPwn on
Dec 27 15:35:26 <timeless_mbp> and no, clutter isn't dead yet
Dec 27 15:35:29 <TrackerDPP> please help me
Dec 27 15:35:32 <timeless_mbp> intel used it heavily in moblin
Dec 27 15:35:42 <pupnik> and who used moblin?
Dec 27 15:35:50 <MohammadAG> intel :P
Dec 27 15:35:56 <timeless_mbp> it probably more or less dies eventually as Qt squeezes out clutter in MeeGo
Dec 27 15:36:06 <timeless_mbp> pupnik: details details :)
Dec 27 15:36:11 <pupnik> :)
Dec 27 15:36:12 <MohammadAG> Qt's nice
Dec 27 15:36:23 * MohammadAG waits for a rant
Dec 27 15:36:25 <timeless_mbp> it's more not dead yet than hildon :)
Dec 27 15:36:30 <MohammadAG> didn't spark it
Dec 27 15:36:34 <MohammadAG> Qt's awesome :P
Dec 27 15:36:39 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: heh
Dec 27 15:36:44 <MohammadAG> hildon's not dead
Dec 27 15:36:49 * timeless_mbp gives MohammadAG points for spelling Qt correctly
Dec 27 15:36:56 <timeless_mbp> (our architects can't even do that)
Dec 27 15:37:03 <MohammadAG> LOL
Dec 27 15:37:07 <Venemo_N900> hey
Dec 27 15:37:11 <Shapeshifter> cute
Dec 27 15:37:19 <timeless_mbp> Shapeshifter: i'd go w/ depressing
Dec 27 15:37:21 <timeless_mbp> or Gtk
Dec 27 15:37:23 <timeless_mbp> :)
Dec 27 15:37:28 <timeless_mbp> or QuickTime
Dec 27 15:37:32 <timeless_mbp> depending on context
Dec 27 15:37:36 <Venemo_N900> I heard spelling Qt as "cute" or "cutey"
Dec 27 15:37:49 <timeless_mbp> nah, they spell it QuickTime
Dec 27 15:37:50 <MohammadAG> yeah
Dec 27 15:37:54 * MohammadAG likes the latter
Dec 27 15:37:57 <MohammadAG> lol
Dec 27 15:38:07 <timeless_mbp> which is unfortunate
Dec 27 15:38:23 <timeless_mbp> maemo in certain (all?) versions actually supports some QuickTime formats
Dec 27 15:38:30 <timeless_mbp> and we *own* Qt
Dec 27 15:38:35 <timeless_mbp> oh well
Dec 27 15:38:37 <timeless_mbp> </rant>
Dec 27 15:38:40 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: happy? :)
Dec 27 15:38:42 <ShadowJK> mp4 is almost QuickTime :-)
Dec 27 15:39:25 <Venemo_N900> timeless_mbp: the correct spelling is "cute", right?
Dec 27 15:39:42 <Shapeshifter> s/spelling/pronounciation/
Dec 27 15:39:46 <FireFly|n900> I think that's the correct pronounciation
Dec 27 15:39:48 <timeless_mbp> Venemo_N900: <uppercase Q><lowercase Tt>
Dec 27 15:39:51 <timeless_mbp> s/Tt/t
Dec 27 15:39:53 <timeless_mbp> grr
Dec 27 15:40:00 <FireFly|n900> Hah
Dec 27 15:40:02 <timeless_mbp> Venemo_N900: <uppercase Q><lowercase t>
Dec 27 15:40:04 <MohammadAG> timeless_mbp, I expected something that would say Qt sucked, but yeah, I'm happy :P
Dec 27 15:40:04 * timeless_mbp sighs
Dec 27 15:40:19 <DocScrutinizer> probably Nokia bought trolls as those architecs and managers thought Qt is QuickTime
Dec 27 15:40:26 <Venemo_N900> timeless_mbp: oh, I referred to pronounciation, not spelling.
Dec 27 15:40:38 <Venemo_N900> lol DocScrutinizer
Dec 27 15:40:44 <timeless_mbp> Venemo_N900: thankfully our architects don't submit .ppt files w/ embedded audio
Dec 27 15:40:51 <Venemo_N900> :D
Dec 27 15:40:52 <MohammadAG> lol
Dec 27 15:40:54 <timeless_mbp> perhaps that's because the n900 doesn't include a sound recorder?
Dec 27 15:40:55 * timeless_mbp sighs
Dec 27 15:41:06 <MohammadAG> lmfao
Dec 27 15:41:11 * ShadowJK vaguely remembers when people made shit in something called Macromedia, that installed 16bit quicktime on windows 98
Dec 27 15:41:25 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: youch
Dec 27 15:42:21 <MohammadAG> why was Macromedia bought by Adobe again?
Dec 27 15:42:27 <ShadowJK> after that it started installing 32bit quicktime and wins (or wing?), a ms compatibility thing that let you run 32bit apps on Win3.11. That was also rather spectacular on Win 9x :)
Dec 27 15:42:30 <timeless_mbp> because adobe had more money?
Dec 27 15:43:03 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: :o
Dec 27 15:43:28 <ShadowJK> My favourite feature was how quicktime associated itself with jpg and all sorts of fileformats it had no clue how to display :)
Dec 27 15:43:30 <MohammadAG> Qt developers should use libgq-gconf. where the hell is it then
Dec 27 15:43:53 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: Adobe thought QuickTime is Trolls' Qt :-P
Dec 27 15:44:08 <MohammadAG> lol
Dec 27 15:44:30 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, it is, the company's called TrollTech after all
Dec 27 15:45:20 <DocScrutinizer> +Tech-foo wo cares
Dec 27 15:45:25 <DocScrutinizer> who*
Dec 27 15:45:51 <DocScrutinizer> probably not even LJP anymore
Dec 27 15:46:24 <trumee> timeless_mbp: is it safe to remove you translations package?
Dec 27 15:46:45 <trumee> timeless_mbp: via the app manager.
Dec 27 15:46:50 <MohammadAG> trumee, just go to settings and set it back to default
Dec 27 15:47:17 <trumee> MohammadAG: ok
Dec 27 15:47:37 <DocScrutinizer> errm, might make arbitrary apps go segfault as they try to pass a %s parameter to a printf that doesn't expect it. Nice clean simple attack vector
Dec 27 15:48:24 <timeless_mbp> trumee: yeah
Dec 27 15:48:39 <timeless_mbp> trumee: you can also just use the control panel item to switch back to Default
Dec 27 15:49:58 <DocScrutinizer> just make sure the bogus parameter for the missing %s is pointing to your own exploit code
Dec 27 15:50:39 <trumee> timeless_mbp: i uninstalled the package, but the translations are still there??
Dec 27 15:50:48 <timeless_mbp> trumee: err
Dec 27 15:50:57 <timeless_mbp> it should have done the right thing
Dec 27 15:50:59 * timeless_mbp frowns
Dec 27 15:51:11 <trumee> timeless_mbp: was called British Translations or something. I did a reboot after that.
Dec 27 15:51:12 * timeless_mbp needs to check the prerm script
Dec 27 15:51:22 * ShadowJK wonders of nokia has patented long-tap yet
Dec 27 15:51:26 <ShadowJK> or if anyone else has
Dec 27 15:51:44 * timeless_mbp is going to have to kill WindowServer
Dec 27 15:51:54 <ShadowJK> (just reading about Nokia getting sued by the holder of the double-click patent)
Dec 27 15:52:06 * timeless_mbp does not look forward to doing that
Dec 27 15:52:30 <trumee> timeless_mbp: ok, how do i get rid of the residuals your package has left?
Dec 27 15:52:37 <DocScrutinizer> oh, double click. How innovative
Dec 27 15:52:53 <timeless_mbp> trumee: is the ui still mine?
Dec 27 15:53:10 <timeless_mbp> if so, you'll want to be <su> for a bit
Dec 27 15:53:10 <trumee> timeless_mbp: yes
Dec 27 15:53:15 <timeless_mbp> sudo gainroot
Dec 27 15:53:20 <trumee> timeless_mbp: ok.
Dec 27 15:53:23 <timeless_mbp> cd /usr/share/locale/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES
Dec 27 15:53:34 <timeless_mbp> cp /opt/maemo/usr/share/locale/en_GB.0/LC_MESSAGES/* .
Dec 27 15:53:37 <timeless_mbp> reboot
Dec 27 15:56:20 <trumee> timeless_mbp:oh crap!. They are still there
Dec 27 15:56:35 <trumee> timeless_mbp: even after a reboot
Dec 27 15:56:42 * timeless_mbp ponders
Dec 27 15:56:54 <timeless_mbp> you're on 1.3?
Dec 27 15:57:01 <trumee> yes
Dec 27 15:57:09 <timeless_mbp> gimme a bit
Dec 27 15:57:13 <timeless_mbp> i'm multitasking poorly right now
Dec 27 15:57:16 <trumee> ok
Dec 27 15:57:22 <timeless_mbp> i need to reboot my mac and probably recover a user account
Dec 27 15:57:23 * timeless_mbp hates that
Dec 27 15:57:47 <xDaReaperx> as usual no one replies at #nitdroid =/
Dec 27 15:57:59 <tybollt_> It's not just you! http://tablets-dev.nokia.com looks down from here.
Dec 27 15:58:04 <tybollt_> anyone else?
Dec 27 15:58:39 <timeless_mbp> tybollt_: if it's part of the maemo.org infra, it'd relate to the topic
Dec 27 15:59:09 <ShadowJK> so.. tablets-dev and bmo down :)
Dec 27 15:59:52 <trumee> timeless_mbp: ls -1 /opt/maemo/usr/share/locale/en_GB.0/LC_MESSAGES |wc -l
Dec 27 15:59:57 <trumee> 60
Dec 27 16:00:00 <Venemo_N900> great
Dec 27 16:00:04 <trumee> ls -1 /usr/share/locale/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES |wc -l
Dec 27 16:00:07 <trumee> 63
Dec 27 16:00:07 <tybollt_> timeless_mbp: ehr I have now idea :S
Dec 27 16:00:26 <timeless_mbp> trumee: the system only backs up things it replaces
Dec 27 16:00:32 <timeless_mbp> that means you have 3 things i don't recognize
Dec 27 16:00:39 <timeless_mbp> presumably 3 third party mo's
Dec 27 16:00:42 <ShadowJK> I hope it's not anything that required physical access. I'd imagine that ISP's people are terribly hungover today
Dec 27 16:00:46 <trumee> timeless_mbp: ok
Dec 27 16:00:49 <timeless_mbp> you can do a diff and lemme know what they are
Dec 27 16:00:53 * timeless_mbp is vaguely curious
Dec 27 16:00:58 <timeless_mbp> probably openvpn
Dec 27 16:01:09 <alterego> nyurgh, maemo.org still down then l.. lame
Dec 27 16:01:32 <MohammadAG> next up: meego.com
Dec 27 16:01:38 <ShadowJK> I got a <title> out of it :-)
Dec 27 16:01:41 * MohammadAG waits for it to die
Dec 27 16:01:45 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: meego.com is mostly OSU hosted
Dec 27 16:01:51 <timeless_mbp> OSU has a very good track record
Dec 27 16:01:57 <timeless_mbp> although meego.com is slightly special
Dec 27 16:02:07 <tybollt_> 'slightly' :)
Dec 27 16:02:11 <timeless_mbp> all it takes is one contractor in the meego.com section of OSU tripping over just the right cable
Dec 27 16:02:40 <Venemo_N900> so what? they decided that Maemo is obsolete so they just disabled maemo.org
Dec 27 16:02:45 <tybollt_> enterrprise redundancy and failover anyone?
Dec 27 16:03:06 <timeless_mbp> Venemo_N900: they being the same snow stuff
Dec 27 16:03:13 <timeless_mbp> that has been disabling planes around the globe
Dec 27 16:03:22 <trumee> 2a3
Dec 27 16:03:23 <xDaReaperx> guys i needed to ask one question about NITdroid's new kernel
Dec 27 16:03:23 <trumee> > cell-modem-ui.mo
Dec 27 16:03:25 <trumee> 60a62,63
Dec 27 16:03:26 <xDaReaperx> if you allow
Dec 27 16:03:26 <trumee> > vte.mo
Dec 27 16:03:28 <trumee> > wget.mo
Dec 27 16:03:28 <xDaReaperx> i can ask
Dec 27 16:03:29 <alterego> bbl
Dec 27 16:03:41 <trumee> timeless_mbp: see diff above
Dec 27 16:03:43 <timeless_mbp> hrm, gainroot doesn't work on my mbp
Dec 27 16:03:53 <ShadowJK> hah
Dec 27 16:03:56 <xDaReaperx> i know it's not the right place to ask , but no one replies at #nitdroid
Dec 27 16:04:07 <timeless_mbp> trumee: right, those aren't nokia things
Dec 27 16:04:56 <Venemo_N900> xDaReaperx: this channel is about Maemo, not NITdroid. I do not know or care anything about NITdroid
Dec 27 16:05:21 <DocScrutinizer> neither do I
Dec 27 16:06:20 <Venemo_N900> xDaReaperx: the NITdroid devs have a forum. ask on that or be patient till someone answers on #nitdroid
Dec 27 16:06:48 * timeless_xchat sighs
Dec 27 16:07:10 <trumee> timeless_xchat: your package was for 1.2 only?
Dec 27 16:07:12 <timeless_xchat> filevault is such a pain
Dec 27 16:07:23 <xDaReaperx_> @Venemo_N900 okay
Dec 27 16:07:25 <xDaReaperx_> thanks
Dec 27 16:07:32 <timeless_xchat> trumee: the latest version should work w/ 1.3
Dec 27 16:07:46 <timeless_xchat> afaict 1.3 wasn't an abi break
Dec 27 16:07:50 <timeless_xchat> unlike 1.2
Dec 27 16:08:06 <trumee> timeless_xchat: so where is the ui picking up the old mo files?
Dec 27 16:08:11 <timeless_xchat> sunday i was horribly confused by a maze of versions
Dec 27 16:08:33 <timeless_xchat> trumee, if the cp didn't work then the ui (in settings) won't work...
Dec 27 16:08:41 <DocScrutinizer> ABI break in a .mo, go figure :-P
Dec 27 16:08:51 <timeless_xchat> but please, lemme fix my mac
Dec 27 16:09:20 <trumee> timeless_xchat: ok.
Dec 27 16:11:29 * timeless_xchat breathes a sigh of relief 
Dec 27 16:11:59 <timeless_xchat> right, so, you need 60files, eh?
Dec 27 16:12:25 <timeless_xchat> oh, for en_GB
Dec 27 16:12:29 <trumee> timeless_xchat: yes
Dec 27 16:12:46 <timeless_xchat> that's easier, since my other n900 hasn't met the en_GB system
Dec 27 16:21:18 * timeless_mbp wonders about strict ordering for prerm files
Dec 27 16:21:53 <timeless_mbp> if a depends on b, and a has a prerm
Dec 27 16:22:05 <timeless_mbp> i presume a's prerm is called before a is removed which is before b is removed?
Dec 27 16:23:42 <trumee> timeless_mbp: ok, device is back to sanity
Dec 27 16:23:49 <timeless_mbp> trumee: sorry about that
Dec 27 16:24:11 * timeless_mbp wonders why that uninstall failed
Dec 27 16:24:13 <trumee> timeless_mbp: no worries. i guess you did mention it was beta
Dec 27 16:24:22 <timeless_mbp> that really should work
Dec 27 16:24:33 <timeless_mbp> otoh testing atm is hard given that repository.maemo.org is down
Dec 27 16:25:26 <trumee> timeless_mbp: so they copy your script mode to en_GB.0 was not good?
Dec 27 16:26:09 <trumee> timeless_xchat: btw, how do you get @firefox/developer/timeless behind your nick?
Dec 27 16:26:44 <timeless_xchat> i have that?
Dec 27 16:26:48 <trumee> timeless_mbp: the copy your script mode to en_GB.0 was not good i suppose?
Dec 27 16:26:52 <timeless_xchat> it's a hostmask
Dec 27 16:27:03 <trumee> timeless_xchat: is that in xchat?
Dec 27 16:27:08 <timeless_xchat> no
Dec 27 16:27:10 <SpeedEvil> trumee: no - freenode
Dec 27 16:27:17 <trumee> ah, i see
Dec 27 16:27:20 <timeless_xchat> it means xchat is ident'ing to freenode
Dec 27 16:27:37 <timeless_xchat> and someone from realm:mozilla grouped me on freenode
Dec 27 16:27:57 * timeless_xchat kicks colloquy - stop hanging 
Dec 27 16:28:53 <timeless_mbp> wait, timeless_xchat doesn't look like it's ident'd
Dec 27 16:29:28 <trumee> [16:04] --> timeless_xchat has joined this channel (~timeless@192.100.124.156)
Dec 27 16:30:12 <trumee> [16:22] --> timeless_mbp has joined this channel (~timeless@192.100.124.156).
Dec 27 16:30:19 <trumee> [16:22] --> timeless_mbp has joined this channel (~timeless@firefox/developer/timeless).
Dec 27 16:30:31 <timeless_mbp> right, timeless_mbp is ident'd
Dec 27 16:32:04 <merlin_1991> hey, the last time the repository was down someone said, he'll do a mirror when it's back up, did that ever happen=
Dec 27 16:32:11 <merlin_1991> s/=/?
Dec 27 16:32:17 <Venemo_N900> obviously no
Dec 27 16:32:18 <timeless_mbp> trumee: look better?
Dec 27 16:32:46 <trumee> timeless_mbp: yes
Dec 27 16:34:58 <timeless_mbp> ok, now timeless_xchat will automatically ident
Dec 27 16:34:59 <xDaReaperx_> I hate my connection
Dec 27 16:35:01 <xDaReaperx_> -_-
Dec 27 16:35:53 <RST38h> Mhm. Nokia 5228 just died, on the second day of use
Dec 27 16:35:57 <RST38h> Is this normal?
Dec 27 16:36:23 <jacekowski> depends
Dec 27 16:36:36 <jacekowski> it's ussualy user having bad touch
Dec 27 16:36:52 <merlin_1991> jacekowski, wasn't it you who wanted to apt-mirror extras?
Dec 27 16:37:08 <jacekowski> yes
Dec 27 16:37:12 <MohammadAG> Jebba had a mirror, but he left, so the mirror's dead
Dec 27 16:37:32 <merlin_1991> what made you not do it?
Dec 27 16:37:42 <jacekowski> i have it
Dec 27 16:37:46 <timeless_xchat> hopefully in the future people won't let finns manage hosting
Dec 27 16:37:57 <merlin_1991> you have it, but?
Dec 27 16:38:20 <jacekowski> just don't share it with everybody
Dec 27 16:38:30 <Venemo_N900> :D
Dec 27 16:38:46 <merlin_1991> :D
Dec 27 16:39:06 <jacekowski> why do you ask?
Dec 27 16:39:27 <merlin_1991> because I wanted to install something today :D
Dec 27 16:39:42 <jacekowski> what?
Dec 27 16:39:43 <timeless_xchat> heh
Dec 27 16:39:47 <merlin_1991> need any application to unzip regular zip files
Dec 27 16:39:58 <SpeedEvil> u nzip
Dec 27 16:40:02 <timeless_xchat> jacekowski: i'd like to install gettext :)
Dec 27 16:40:10 <jacekowski> ./extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/u/unzip/unzip_6.0-1maemo1_armel.deb
Dec 27 16:40:12 <SpeedEvil> it's in the repo
Dec 27 16:40:14 <timeless_xchat> (actually, i'd rather host it)
Dec 27 16:40:19 <SpeedEvil> oh
Dec 27 16:40:27 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: repo is down
Dec 27 16:40:32 <timeless_xchat> speedevil, is the repo alive again?
Dec 27 16:40:35 <jacekowski> ./extras/pool/fremantle-1.3/free/g/gettext/gettext_0.17-4maemo1+0m5_armel.deb
Dec 27 16:40:40 <jacekowski> i have both
Dec 27 16:41:00 <merlin_1991> then share them :D
Dec 27 16:41:07 <timeless_xchat> jacekowski : url please? i'll stick it into my own host
Dec 27 16:41:22 * MohammadAG has gettext if you want it
Dec 27 16:41:31 <MohammadAG> that is, unless jacekowski can share it
Dec 27 16:41:43 <merlin_1991> wich would be nice ofc
Dec 27 16:41:58 <timeless_xchat> mohammadag, you keep apt-archive-cache?
Dec 27 16:42:13 <MohammadAG> yes
Dec 27 16:42:19 <MohammadAG> it's in MyDocs anyways
Dec 27 16:42:49 <jacekowski> http://maemo.jacekowski.org/mirror/repository.maemo.org/
Dec 27 16:42:57 * MohammadAG has /var/cache/apt/archives there
Dec 27 16:43:01 <SpeedEvil> merlin_1991: http://www.mauve.plus.com/unzip
Dec 27 16:43:05 <SpeedEvil> binary onl
Dec 27 16:43:07 <SpeedEvil> y
Dec 27 16:43:10 <SpeedEvil> If it's of use
Dec 27 16:43:14 <merlin_1991> thanks a lot jacekowski
Dec 27 16:43:27 <MohammadAG> wow
Dec 27 16:43:34 <MohammadAG> ty jacekowski
Dec 27 16:44:00 * DocScrutinizer wonders what's that been with unzip fix earlier today
Dec 27 16:44:09 <SpeedEvil> oooh - nice jacekowski
Dec 27 16:45:03 <DocScrutinizer> and I thought we had a community repo that's just fine for such things
Dec 27 16:45:11 <DocScrutinizer> gues I'm mistaken
Dec 27 16:45:20 <MohammadAG> we do :)
Dec 27 16:45:25 <merlin_1991> where? :D
Dec 27 16:45:45 <trumee> Is it true that N900 charges better when in Mass Storage mode?
Dec 27 16:45:52 <MohammadAG> #maemo-ssu, it needs fixes, don't expect support till it's released, so you're on your own
Dec 27 16:45:52 <DocScrutinizer> no
Dec 27 16:45:55 <MohammadAG> trumee, no
Dec 27 16:46:19 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG: make me happy then
Dec 27 16:46:31 <DocScrutinizer> ??
Dec 27 16:46:44 <timeless_xchat> hrm, grumble
Dec 27 16:46:52 <timeless_xchat> that isn't working
Dec 27 16:46:57 <trumee> i am always worried about yanking out the cable when the device is in Mass Storage mode
Dec 27 16:47:01 <timeless_xchat> my repo *already* has gettext
Dec 27 16:47:18 <timeless_xchat> i guess i'm losing a priority fight w/ extras*
Dec 27 16:47:25 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Dec 27 16:47:26 <trumee> so i always skip the Mass Storage/PC Suite mode
Dec 27 16:47:39 <MohammadAG> timeless_xchat, welcome to our problem then
Dec 27 16:47:43 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: works just fine here
Dec 27 16:47:47 <DocScrutinizer> I tested it
Dec 27 16:47:56 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: good one
Dec 27 16:47:58 <MohammadAG> just tap outside to charge
Dec 27 16:48:05 <trumee> MohammadAG: yes i do that
Dec 27 16:48:05 * MohammadAG uses PC Suite, USB networking + ssh ftw
Dec 27 16:48:21 * timeless_xchat turns off everything except the one repo
Dec 27 16:48:26 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: sometimes i had a case when it wouldn't charge if i just tap outside it
Dec 27 16:48:32 <trumee> I saw a post on tmo mentioning this and was worried
Dec 27 16:48:33 <timeless_xchat> hrm
Dec 27 16:48:39 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: hmm
Dec 27 16:48:57 <DocScrutinizer> sometimes I have a case where it doesn't charge when plugged to wallcharger
Dec 27 16:49:09 <DocScrutinizer> might be unrelated
Dec 27 16:49:13 <merlin_1991> damn it, Installation of packge unzip not possible, package not compatible :/
Dec 27 16:49:15 <trumee> wtf, Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 35 bytes) in /home/tabtalk/public_html/forums/search.php on line 1160
Dec 27 16:49:24 <trumee> tmo search failed
Dec 27 16:49:35 <DocScrutinizer> hahahaha
Dec 27 16:49:56 <jacekowski> nokia is trying to discourage maemo users
Dec 27 16:50:12 <merlin_1991> but why on earth is the unzip package uncompatible?
Dec 27 16:50:18 <jacekowski> to when they change to meego there will be no resistance
Dec 27 16:50:32 <timeless_xchat> grr
Dec 27 16:50:41 * timeless_xchat hates package domains
Dec 27 16:50:47 * MohammadAG too
Dec 27 16:51:37 <jacekowski> merlin_1991: fremantle-1.3
Dec 27 16:51:52 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-12-27 11:56:21] <zap> X-Fade: hi! how about fixing unzip till new year? :-)   [2010-12-27 11:57:35] <X-Fade> zap: I tried to fix it a few times but somehow never managed to get it right.   [2010-12-27 11:57:50] <zap> Fremantle Extras-testing free armelunzip 6.0-1maemo1   [2010-12-27 11:58:52] <zap> DocScrutinizer: this is unzip 6.0
Dec 27 16:51:56 * timeless_xchat is glad for having installed rootsh earlier today
Dec 27 16:52:27 <merlin_1991> jacekowski, extras-testing has only fremantle
Dec 27 16:52:49 <merlin_1991> I see the package is pre 1.3 still
Dec 27 16:53:02 <jacekowski> it shouldn't be
Dec 27 16:53:24 <merlin_1991> has to be, otherwise why can't I install it
Dec 27 16:53:31 <MohammadAG> dpkg -i
Dec 27 16:53:37 <MohammadAG> cause HAM is retarded
Dec 27 16:53:51 <timeless_xchat> jacekowski, thanks for hosting, although i didn't end up using it
Dec 27 16:54:29 <timeless_xchat> merlin: if ham thinks a certain domain is supposed to own a package
Dec 27 16:54:46 <timeless_xchat> it won't offer to install it from other untrusted domains
Dec 27 16:55:01 <DocScrutinizer> unless repill mode enabled :-P
Dec 27 16:55:07 <DocScrutinizer> red pill*
Dec 27 16:55:10 <merlin_1991> I did dl the deb and tried to install if from file managaer
Dec 27 16:55:17 <merlin_1991> does it apply in this case too?
Dec 27 16:55:31 <DocScrutinizer> umm
Dec 27 16:55:37 <MohammadAG> use dpkg -i
Dec 27 16:55:37 <MohammadAG> it's probably out of user/
Dec 27 16:55:43 * timeless_xchat shrugs
Dec 27 16:55:47 <merlin_1991> I used dpkg -i :D
Dec 27 16:55:54 <DocScrutinizer> yes, unless you disable all other repos in HAM (wild guess)
Dec 27 16:56:01 <MohammadAG> yes
Dec 27 16:56:13 <timeless_xchat> disabling repos doesn't always help
Dec 27 16:56:38 <DocScrutinizer> it should when you try to install a local .deb
Dec 27 16:56:52 <timeless_xchat> (if you've installed and removed a package from a trusted domain ...)
Dec 27 16:57:28 <DocScrutinizer> whatever, cya folks
Dec 27 16:57:42 <joppu> autobuilder down?
Dec 27 16:57:51 <jacekowski> repository down
Dec 27 16:58:05 <timeless_xchat> joppu: finland hosting is down
Dec 27 16:58:08 <timeless_xchat> see topic
Dec 27 16:58:29 <merlin_1991> ah well dpkg -i worked and it works, wonder what fix zap was talking about
Dec 27 16:59:08 <timeless_xchat> trumee, so... what precisely did you do in your original, failed, uninstall?
Dec 27 16:59:18 * timeless_xchat wants to go bug hunting 
Dec 27 17:00:08 <trumee> timeless_xchat: i uinstalled from the app-manager
Dec 27 17:00:44 <timeless_xchat> ok...
Dec 27 17:01:12 <timeless_xchat> how many installs of this package did you do before that?
Dec 27 17:01:18 <timeless_xchat> (just one?)
Dec 27 17:01:30 <jacekowski> hmm, just looking at my logs
Dec 27 17:01:36 <jacekowski> i could add some ads there
Dec 27 17:01:43 <jacekowski> and make like £30/mo
Dec 27 17:01:47 <timeless_xchat> jacekowski, lol
Dec 27 17:02:36 <trumee> timeless_xchat: yup, 2 i think. The second one was an update
Dec 27 17:03:22 <timeless_xchat> ok, so the update pass is what probably hosed things
Dec 27 17:03:23 * trumee hates that TomTom vfat disk produces " attempt to access beyond end of device" under linux. But works fine in windows.
Dec 27 17:04:14 <trumee> timeless_xchat: i guess the update, overwrote the original files backup sitting in GB.0
Dec 27 17:04:21 <timeless_xchat> yep
Dec 27 17:04:38 * timeless_xchat needs to figure out what to do there
Dec 27 17:04:52 <timeless_xchat> the problem is that there are two updates possible:
Dec 27 17:05:00 <timeless_xchat> 1. nokia updates
Dec 27 17:05:04 <timeless_xchat> 2. mine
Dec 27 17:05:18 <timeless_xchat> for 1, the code should do "the right thing"
Dec 27 17:07:21 * trumee Crap, TomToms filesystem is corrupted because i connected under linux.
Dec 27 17:09:13 <yacc> trumee, you could always try mtools ;)
Dec 27 17:12:34 <timeless_xchat> trumee, i suspect i need a .preinst
Dec 27 17:17:53 <trumee> yacc, mtools?
Dec 27 17:18:10 <timeless_xchat> rather, i need a much smarter preinst
Dec 27 17:18:31 <timeless_xchat> or something
Dec 27 17:18:35 * timeless_xchat sighs
Dec 27 17:18:47 <timeless_xchat> .deb package scripts have too many states
Dec 27 17:19:13 <FauxFaux> The luxus package installs fine and adds stuff to /usr/lib/hildon-desktop, which, when run, does start the desktop app... but it's not in the add widget list?  Halp.
Dec 27 17:21:49 <FauxFaux> Gah, it's added itself to a desktop I don't use.
Dec 27 17:24:00 <RST38h> http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4807/yakumon.8/0_447e5_2d88315d_orig.jpg
Dec 27 17:29:26 <yacc> trumee, mtools => the package that provides mdir & co cmdline tools => has been used back then for floppy access, ...
Dec 27 17:31:50 <zzz__> Hello, I am sorry if this has become the FAQ of the day, but does anyone know when the servers will be stable again? I need to access the source code for a few packages, and it is frustrating.
Dec 27 17:34:44 <alterego> zzz__: what packages? :)
Dec 27 17:35:11 <zzz__> alterego: To be specific, dsme.
Dec 27 17:35:37 <nox-> heh n900 mentioned on 27c3 saal2 :)
Dec 27 17:35:49 <nox-> http://wmv.27c3.fem-net.de/saal2
Dec 27 17:35:56 <nox-> (livestream)
Dec 27 17:36:59 <timeless_xchat> zzz__, mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/find?string=dsme ?
Dec 27 17:38:10 <timeless_xchat> mxr is up
Dec 27 17:38:18 <timeless_xchat> and is fairly stable
Dec 27 17:38:43 <timeless_xchat> there are "raw file" links at the top of most pages
Dec 27 17:39:07 <zzz__> timeless_xchat: Yes, that was it. Thank you! However, it looks like I will have to download the source code file by file.
Dec 27 17:39:28 <timeless_xchat> well, mxr is a cross reference, not a source server
Dec 27 17:39:37 <timeless_xchat> but a bit of perl would work
Dec 27 17:40:00 <timeless_xchat> just grab the last href from each line and add ?raw=1
Dec 27 17:40:36 <timeless_xchat> otoh, do *not* simply spider mxr :)
Dec 27 17:41:02 <zzz__> timeless_xchat: I am not good at Perl, but I am very good with bash. Oh, I won't spider. :) I will try with bash; let's see how this goes.
Dec 27 17:43:04 <zzz__> timeless_xchat: Thanks once again. Bye!
Dec 27 17:49:17 <DocScrutinizer> wget
Dec 27 17:58:24 <DocScrutinizer51> 27c3 wmf. media format not supported \o/ for 'hackers'
Dec 27 17:58:24 <DocScrutinizer51> wmv even
Dec 27 17:58:24 <DocScrutinizer51> pffff
Dec 27 17:58:24 <nox-> hehe...  they also have h264 but mplayer hangs on those once in a while
Dec 27 17:58:25 <nox-> rtmp://berlin1.rtmp.27c3.fem-net.de/rtmp/saalX_hq
Dec 27 17:59:33 <DocScrutinizer51> honestly, even ZDF and ARD meanwhile managed to get working livestreams. Couldn't bother less about some 'hackers' streaming their shit in a format made by microsoft
Dec 27 18:00:03 <DocScrutinizer51> that's not supported on any of my linux systems
Dec 27 18:01:00 <nox-> oh mplayer and vlc at least play them alright here...
Dec 27 18:01:05 * DocScrutinizer51 hopes those noobs are wearing 'Alt-F4' shirts
Dec 27 18:02:03 <timeless_mbp> sp3000: heading out....
Dec 27 18:10:15 <DocScrutinizer51> nox-: you don't expect me to try and get a rtmp:// running on maemo?
Dec 27 18:10:18 <DocScrutinizer51> well, every year same shit
Dec 27 18:10:21 <DocScrutinizer51> meh
Dec 27 18:10:48 <nox-> :)  actually its part of a flash page http://saal1.h264.27c3.fem-net.de/
Dec 27 18:10:48 <alterego> Think I just raged out: p
Dec 27 18:10:48 <alterego> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=905439&postcount=13
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 27 18:49:46 2010
Dec 27 18:59:14 <gnu2this> timeless_mbp: how long has it been like this?
Dec 27 18:59:29 <timeless_mbp> 8 hours?
Dec 27 18:59:35 <timeless_mbp> since snow attacked the hosting provider
Dec 27 18:59:46 <timeless_mbp> http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/artikkeli/Lumi%2Bhaittaa%2Bjunaliikennett%25C3%25A4%2Bmy%25C3%25B6s%2BVRn%2Blipunmyynti%2Bkaatunut%2B/1135262634413%3Fref%3Dtf_iHSuutisboksi_p1&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhhz-K6FO3b1JGVya5Kvl7yW2_CV-A
Dec 27 19:00:45 <gnu2this> that's about how long i've been trying to get this app. thanx
Dec 27 19:07:03 <timeless_mbp> in the future, please do consider checking the channel topic and perhaps reading scroll back
Dec 27 19:34:08 <Ro9u3oR> Can someone assist me in connecting my BT keyboard to my n900
Dec 27 19:34:58 <pupnik> maybe
Dec 27 19:35:41 <pupnik> can you help me bacth-concatenate downloaded youtube .mp4s without re-encoding?
Dec 27 19:36:44 <Ro9u3oR> Maybe if i knew what i were doing
Dec 27 19:38:41 <pupnik> ahh i see this is the lawyer-crippled ldd /usr/lib/libavcodec.so.52
Dec 27 19:41:47 <Ro9u3oR> is there a certain app i need in order to connect bt keyboard
Dec 27 19:42:18 <pupnik> what keyboard do you have Ro9u3oR
Dec 27 19:42:39 <Ro9u3oR> think outside stowaway BT
Dec 27 19:42:56 <pupnik> i have that one too - worked with the n810
Dec 27 19:43:13 <Ro9u3oR> as well as the n800
Dec 27 19:43:34 <pupnik> did you try this? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=n900+%20keyboard+stowaway
Dec 27 19:43:36 <Ro9u3oR> ive had it working but for some reason it wont connect
Dec 27 19:43:45 <pupnik> ah
Dec 27 19:43:53 <pupnik> so much information to tease out of you
Dec 27 19:44:01 <pupnik> plonk! :)
Dec 27 19:46:26 <MohammadAG> new HP netbook in the house
Dec 27 19:46:29 <MohammadAG> turned it on
Dec 27 19:46:41 <MohammadAG> after an hour +- of setting up crap, guess what
Dec 27 19:46:43 <MohammadAG> BSOD xD
Dec 27 19:46:47 <RST38h> Well...
Dec 27 19:48:38 <DocScrutinizer> didn't they tell you to run-in windows carefully?
Dec 27 19:49:49 <MohammadAG> god windows 7 is slow on a netbook
Dec 27 19:49:53 <nox-> phonon rant in saal2...
Dec 27 19:50:07 <nox-> (and linux multimedia stuff)
Dec 27 19:50:16 <DocScrutinizer> errr
Dec 27 19:50:44 <Venemo_N900> lol MohammadAG :D
Dec 27 19:50:47 <nox-> yeah and i suppose you can watch the recording later too :)
Dec 27 19:52:13 <lcuk> MohammadAG, s\on a netbook\\
Dec 27 19:52:59 <MohammadAG> lcuk, give them credit, they got it right for once :P
Dec 27 19:53:07 <MohammadAG> Win 7 isn't that bad
Dec 27 19:53:32 <MohammadAG> kinetic scrolling is weird on windows
Dec 27 19:53:50 <RST38h> windows has kinetic scrolling?
Dec 27 19:53:52 <RST38h> hm
Dec 27 19:54:08 <MohammadAG> yeah, the touch pack does
Dec 27 19:54:18 <MohammadAG> it's stock on all devices with a touchscreen
Dec 27 19:54:22 <MohammadAG> multitouch usually
Dec 27 19:54:37 <MohammadAG> the windows move up/down when you reach the end of the page, a nice touch
Dec 27 19:54:51 <chx> Microsoft gets Windows right every 00 year
Dec 27 19:55:02 <chx> Windows 2000 was actually quite good, no wonder they rushed to phase it out
Dec 27 19:55:04 <pupnik> only against their will
Dec 27 19:55:10 <chx> Windows 7 is again not too bad
Dec 27 19:55:17 <chx> it's just the shit between....
Dec 27 19:56:00 <chx> I remember Balmer actually trashing Windows 2000 when XP launched which clearly told anyone who listened that 2000 rocked and XP sucked and MS was scared they launched a Windows ppl wont upgrade...
Dec 27 19:56:19 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Dec 27 19:56:51 <RST38h> Vista/Win7 is the best thing to happen to Linux for the last 10 years
Dec 27 19:57:22 <chx> Vista is, but not Win7
Dec 27 19:57:40 <chx> DocScrutinizer: look, Balmer talks sense and is always right, you just need to invert everything he says. Easy.
Dec 27 19:57:44 <RST38h> Win7 is still pretty bad at performance
Dec 27 19:58:06 <DocScrutinizer> chx: sorry, unrelated
Dec 27 19:58:11 <MohammadAG> RST38h, it's comparable to XP actually
Dec 27 19:58:15 <MohammadAG> well, imo at least
Dec 27 19:58:21 <RST38h> Mohammad: Not for me
Dec 27 19:58:35 <MohammadAG> prolly cause I tried XP and 7 on different PCs then
Dec 27 19:58:46 <RST38h> Mohammad: Ok, it is comparable (but still hving hiccups) when you disable Aero and all the other flickety crap
Dec 27 19:59:44 <RST38h> GoogleTV kinda dead. Hm.
Dec 27 20:00:05 * MohammadAG starts internet explorer and downloads some other browser
Dec 27 20:00:09 <MohammadAG> prolly the only reason I use that
Dec 27 20:00:22 <MohammadAG> Microsoft really needs to add something wget-y so I don't have to touch IE
Dec 27 20:01:00 <MohammadAG> ha
Dec 27 20:01:08 <MohammadAG> it's a capacitive screen
Dec 27 20:01:29 <MohammadAG> sigh
Dec 27 20:01:36 <MohammadAG> it keeps clicking instead of scrolling\
Dec 27 20:01:52 <DocScrutinizer> \o/ gdm
Dec 27 20:02:18 * DocScrutinizer gasps
Dec 27 20:02:29 <MohammadAG> wtf is corel
Dec 27 20:02:50 <MohammadAG> yeah sure, install without asking me if I need you
Dec 27 20:03:34 <pupnik> the joys (irony) of MS
Dec 27 20:13:47 <PhonicUK> hey all
Dec 27 20:13:55 <PhonicUK> has anyone tried using Spotify inside Preenv?
Dec 27 20:17:37 <lmoura> is anyone having problems accessing repository.maemo.org?
Dec 27 20:18:42 <kerio> lmoura: worksforme
Dec 27 20:26:29 <lmoura> getting timeout for almost 4 hours for repository, bugzilla and the website
Dec 27 20:27:47 <timeless_mbp> lmoura: did you read the topic?
Dec 27 20:28:04 <lmoura> timeless_mbp, oops. thanks
Dec 27 20:28:37 <timeless_mbp> An error occurred while processing your request.
Dec 27 20:28:38 <timeless_mbp> Reference #97.b2a4b8c1.1293481561.606d150
Dec 27 20:28:39 <madduck> next to the signal intensity, do 2G, 3G and E mean GSM, 3G and EDGE respectively?
Dec 27 20:28:43 <timeless_mbp> kerio: try http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libv/libvorbis/
Dec 27 20:29:06 <kerio> doesntworkforme
Dec 27 20:35:43 <noobmonk3y> BACON!!!!
Dec 27 20:36:26 <lcuk> mmm bacon
Dec 27 20:36:45 <RST38h> lcuk: BTW, DrWho ruled.
Dec 27 20:36:55 <lcuk> RST38h, yes, it did!
Dec 27 20:37:09 <lcuk> really great story.
Dec 27 20:37:33 <RST38h> The story was mainly (C)Charles Dickens
Dec 27 20:37:51 <RST38h> Its execution ruled though
Dec 27 20:38:08 <lcuk> yes :)
Dec 27 20:39:13 <RST38h> Are they planning to continue the series in 2011? =)
Dec 27 20:41:28 <Jaffa> RST38h: Yes, split in two halves.
Dec 27 20:41:48 <Jaffa> RST38h: Trailer on TouTube. "I wear a stetson now. Stetsons are cool."
Dec 27 20:42:28 <Jaffa> DW was great, but the cheating with the timeline was perhaps a bit too similar to _The Big Bang_. Still cool tho'
Dec 27 20:42:44 <Jaffa> RST38h: I missed the sharks in Dickens' version ;-)
Dec 27 21:22:59 <noobmonk3y> lcuk, did frals get hold of you he was hunting you out earlier
Dec 27 21:23:46 <lcuk> yeah noobmonk3y thanks
Dec 27 21:23:51 <lcuk> i was *shock* offline
Dec 27 21:23:54 * lcuk was hacking
Dec 27 21:24:25 <noobmonk3y> ;)
Dec 27 21:24:28 <noobmonk3y> hacking bacon?
Dec 27 21:24:30 <noobmonk3y> oooo btw
Dec 27 21:24:40 <noobmonk3y> out of my 3 cmas pressies i got a genius one!
Dec 27 21:24:42 <noobmonk3y> xmas*
Dec 27 21:24:52 <noobmonk3y> i have a proper butchers apron :) :)
Dec 27 21:25:02 <lcuk> nice
Dec 27 21:25:17 <MohammadAG> is that genius or a Guinness? :P
Dec 27 21:25:28 <noobmonk3y> genius :P lol
Dec 27 21:25:35 <lcuk> perhaps mrs noobmonk3y is trying to tell you she wants a sausage.
Dec 27 21:25:41 <noobmonk3y> lcuk, perhaps.....
Dec 27 21:28:08 <MohammadAG> besides alterego's mohammedia suggestion, any suggestions for the Qt Mediaplayer name :P
Dec 27 21:28:39 <Venemo> MohammadAG: no name required. just replace the "Media player" shortcut in the task launcher
Dec 27 21:28:57 <MohammadAG> Venemo, and copyright?
Dec 27 21:29:01 <alterego> Or do what he did with mine, and just replace the whole package.
Dec 27 21:29:20 <MohammadAG> hey, blame creator not me! :P
Dec 27 21:30:32 <alterego> No, that's what you get when you name your project name the same as media players package name :P
Dec 27 21:30:37 <noobmonk3y> moh: Mo'Media
Dec 27 21:30:52 <alterego> Mo'Fo'Mediaplayer
Dec 27 21:30:56 <noobmonk3y> or that
Dec 27 21:31:22 <MohammadAG> lmfao
Dec 27 21:33:48 <alterego> Grr,
Dec 27 21:34:11 <alterego> Doesn't ld use ld.so.conf to search for libraries?
Dec 27 21:34:28 <kasansweat> enjoying the new N900 -- but is there really no easy(er) way to do SSH file transfers than to set up sshfs? Seems like overkill
Dec 27 21:34:36 <alterego> I'm getting linking errors
Dec 27 21:35:03 <MohammadAG> kasansweat, scp?
Dec 27 21:35:44 <MohammadAG> no other suggestions for the mediaplayer's name? :P
Dec 27 21:36:12 <kasansweat> i mean, besides using the command line -- like an easy way to transfer music et al on a regular basis through a file manager, w/out bluetooth, etc.
Dec 27 21:36:14 <MohammadAG>     Maemo 5 Stock Media Player rewrite in Qt
Dec 27 21:36:16 <MohammadAG>     Copyright (C) 2010 Mohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh
Dec 27 21:36:18 <npm> when is maemo.org going to be back up (guess i shouldn't have included images from there in my doc http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/wiki/CitizenJournalismWithYoutubeDirectForMeego )
Dec 27 21:36:35 <npm> rather wiki.maemo.org
Dec 27 21:36:56 <kasansweat> I feel like I might be missing something
Dec 27 21:36:57 <pupnik> very very very nice project npm
Dec 27 21:37:04 <Venemo> MohammadAG: "Media Player" is not a copyrightable term.
Dec 27 21:37:17 <MohammadAG> Venemo, so should I just leave it as Media Player?
Dec 27 21:37:42 <kasansweat> I'm sure I could cough up a bash script or something, but I'm just surprised there's nothing like that for the N900, like there is in, say, Ubuntu Nautilus
Dec 27 21:37:53 <kasansweat> or there is and I'm totally missing it.
Dec 27 21:38:23 <MohammadAG> nautilus would be awesome tbh
Dec 27 21:38:37 <MohammadAG> I think the N900FTP app supports sftp
Dec 27 21:38:39 <MohammadAG> not sure though
Dec 27 21:39:46 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: If you begin the name with cute, cutey, QT, queet - I will have to kill you.
Dec 27 21:40:14 <MohammadAG> what about Qt? :P
Dec 27 21:41:14 <kasansweat> hahaha, wow, I just put that together -- the cute=qt thing.
Dec 27 21:41:37 <MohammadAG> lol
Dec 27 21:42:38 <alterego> Now to package columbus-plugins-core
Dec 27 21:42:39 <Venemo> MohammadAG: so make the "Media Player" shortcut point to your app and not the stock one.
Dec 27 21:43:02 <MohammadAG> Venemo, that's not the problem here
Dec 27 21:43:20 <MohammadAG> Venemo, I'm pondering what I should name the project, what I should put in copyright
Dec 27 21:43:33 <MohammadAG> I mean, the browser is called Web on the N900, but the project is microB
Dec 27 21:43:51 <Venemo> MohammadAG: "MohamMedia by MohammadAG&friends"
Dec 27 21:44:11 * MohammadAG surrenders
Dec 27 21:44:16 <MohammadAG> Mohammedia it is
Dec 27 21:44:23 <MohammadAG> damn you alterego ! :P
Dec 27 21:44:29 <Venemo> MohammadAG: or if you like MicroB, name it "MicroC" or "MicroA"
Dec 27 21:45:05 <Venemo> MohammadAG: I was just joking with MohamMedia :P
Dec 27 21:45:13 <MohammadAG> Mohammedia Flash Player
Dec 27 21:45:19 <MohammadAG> sorry, got carried away :P
Dec 27 21:45:22 <Venemo> MohammadAG: anyway, it sounds a bit egoistic, but you deserve it
Dec 27 21:45:42 <MohammadAG> it is, that's why I don't want to use it lol
Dec 27 21:45:54 <Venemo> anyway, good night guys. I have to go to sleep now. :)
Dec 27 21:48:43 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: What are the distinguishing features of this media player?
Dec 27 21:49:27 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, seriously, you missed out on a project we started a month ago? :P
Dec 27 21:49:41 <MohammadAG> http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer
Dec 27 21:49:51 <MohammadAG> It's a FOSS rewrite of the stock mediaplayer
Dec 27 21:50:10 <SpeedEvil> I suggest FOSSROTSMP
Dec 27 21:50:48 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, the UI is almost complee
Dec 27 21:50:51 <MohammadAG> complete*
Dec 27 21:50:56 <MohammadAG> I should blog about this
Dec 27 21:51:05 <kasansweat> "MoMedia" ain't bad, actually
Dec 27 21:51:07 <MohammadAG> but, now playing is the same as the current one, but in portrait mode: http://i54.tinypic.com/2jg8853.jpg
Dec 27 21:51:13 <pupnik> npm that is a very informative link, thank you
Dec 27 21:51:39 <pupnik> i hope it gets widely read
Dec 27 21:51:42 <MohammadAG> I just finished the video UI http://i54.tinypic.com/2eefv49.jpg
Dec 27 21:52:05 <MohammadAG> the songs UI with a custom list http://i53.tinypic.com/axe0x2.jpg
Dec 27 21:52:41 <MohammadAG> internet radio UI http://i51.tinypic.com/2rzw51g.jpg
Dec 27 21:52:53 <MohammadAG> and main UI in portrait mode http://tinypic.com/m/dr3sdl/3
Dec 27 21:52:56 <SpeedEvil> Great Open Audio, Television, Source Edition. Known by the acronym - GOATSE.
Dec 27 21:52:59 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, ^
Dec 27 21:53:06 <SpeedEvil> neat!
Dec 27 21:53:06 <MohammadAG> LMFAO
Dec 27 21:53:51 <SpeedEvil> Does it do the tracker thing, or what?
Dec 27 21:53:59 <SpeedEvil> Or files
Dec 27 21:54:12 <MohammadAG> why not both? It's FOSS
Dec 27 21:54:20 <MohammadAG> for 1.0, we're getting tracker in
Dec 27 21:54:32 <MohammadAG> then we're adding in features that bothered everyone
Dec 27 21:54:35 <MohammadAG> (well, the lack of them)
Dec 27 21:54:59 <MohammadAG> like folder based playback, portrait mode [done], share via BT [done] umm
Dec 27 21:55:50 <RST38h> Mohammad: Will it still support AVRCP?
Dec 27 21:56:07 <MohammadAG> AVRCP is?
Dec 27 21:56:35 <RST38h> playback controls over bt
Dec 27 21:56:39 <MohammadAG> RST38h, and patches are welcome, the gitorious page is alive, with everyone contributing a nice part to it
Dec 27 21:56:49 <MohammadAG> crashanddie's doing mafw integration
Dec 27 21:57:02 <MohammadAG> umm, that's handled by MAFW afaik
Dec 27 21:57:04 <MohammadAG> so yes, it should
Dec 27 21:57:09 <RST38h> it is no
Dec 27 21:57:10 <RST38h> t
Dec 27 21:57:21 <MohammadAG> sure about that?
Dec 27 21:57:32 <MohammadAG> there haven't been apps that used mafw a lot
Dec 27 21:57:35 <toresbe> Hey, anyone happen to have experience with smscon?
Dec 27 21:57:40 <RST38h> At least, both MediaPlayer and the MediaPlayer applet implement it individually
Dec 27 21:57:54 <MohammadAG> toresbe, it raped my bill
Dec 27 21:58:05 <MohammadAG> RST38h, care to test it?
Dec 27 21:58:09 <toresbe> haha - oh?
Dec 27 21:58:19 <MohammadAG> http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer
Dec 27 21:58:21 <RST38h> Mohammad: yea, why not, got a .deb?
Dec 27 21:58:31 <RST38h> thanks
Dec 27 21:58:38 <MohammadAG> toresbe, no seriously, I was testing it, and it sent out like 50 SMSs
Dec 27 21:58:40 <toresbe> apt raped mine. Whilst abroad, the damn thing started apt-get update.
Dec 27 21:58:47 <MohammadAG> RST38h, cause it's still WIP :P
Dec 27 21:58:55 <RST38h> executable is fine =)
Dec 27 21:59:03 <MohammadAG> apt-worker, haha
Dec 27 21:59:07 * MohammadAG replaced that
Dec 27 21:59:12 <toresbe> MohammadAG: Is there an ability of somehow disabling the UIs notification of SMS received?
Dec 27 21:59:13 <MohammadAG> with echo "Fuck off"
Dec 27 21:59:18 <MohammadAG> works quite well
Dec 27 21:59:35 <MohammadAG> toresbe, not that I know of, but it should be easy to patch it with nicolai's source code
Dec 27 21:59:42 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: neat
Dec 27 21:59:48 <MohammadAG> you could point that out to the dev
Dec 27 22:00:04 * SpeedEvil wonders what features most annoy him about the media player.
Dec 27 22:00:17 <toresbe> To me it's the lack of TPOS support.
Dec 27 22:00:35 <toresbe> Few things more annoying than having Disc 1 and 2 of a CD merged.
Dec 27 22:00:36 <MohammadAG> to me, it's crap and closed source :P
Dec 27 22:00:41 <SpeedEvil> Youtube integration would be nice.
Dec 27 22:00:55 <lcuk> feature creep :P
Dec 27 22:00:56 <MohammadAG> well, not crap, just nothing that a rival company would copy
Dec 27 22:01:18 <SpeedEvil> And I'd like configurable behaviour on headset-click
Dec 27 22:01:30 <SpeedEvil> double-click - next track, for example.
Dec 27 22:02:09 <SpeedEvil> triple-click - spawn a bash shell, and input the following decoded morse code to it.
Dec 27 22:02:27 <toresbe> hahaha
Dec 27 22:02:35 <toresbe> You know, I WANT that feature now.
Dec 27 22:03:16 <toresbe> Oh, hell. Now I feel an urge to wire my morse key to the headphone cable and writing a HID driver.
Dec 27 22:03:26 <SpeedEvil> :)
Dec 27 22:03:30 <toresbe> MohammadAG: I was asking more in terms of if you knew whether it was possible to do it in the API
Dec 27 22:03:51 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, morse would be slow
Dec 27 22:03:57 <SpeedEvil> toresbe: Consider a morse-key worn like a medallion, with bluetooth.
Dec 27 22:03:59 <lcuk> but since you are on about headphones
Dec 27 22:04:01 <lcuk> could use mic
Dec 27 22:04:02 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: Depends on the operator
Dec 27 22:04:08 * lcuk nods
Dec 27 22:04:28 <SpeedEvil> Though I do question if anyone could hit 60wpm on the headset switch.
Dec 27 22:04:34 <SpeedEvil> (though I'd pay to see that)
Dec 27 22:04:51 <toresbe> SpeedEvil: My Junker key would, if worn around my neck... wear down my neck :)
Dec 27 22:05:05 <SpeedEvil> :)
Dec 27 22:05:47 <timeless_mbp> sp3000: so
Dec 27 22:05:55 <MohammadAG> toresbe, not exactly, you have to kill the notification
Dec 27 22:06:01 <timeless_mbp> my n900 sees an update available for my packages
Dec 27 22:06:04 <MohammadAG> toresbe, nicolai's app does that nicely
Dec 27 22:06:18 <timeless_mbp> i guess i can add some instrumentation to the current packages (the ones about to go away)
Dec 27 22:06:20 <toresbe> Oh, it's in there already? Neat!
Dec 27 22:12:30 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG: i don't think "media player" can be copyrighted, so that's not an issue
Dec 27 22:13:00 <jacekowski> mohammediaplayer
Dec 27 22:13:14 <SpeedEvil> momedia works for me
Dec 27 22:14:05 <SpeedEvil> MoTunes?
Dec 27 22:14:38 <SpeedEvil> With the companion animation player MoToons.
Dec 27 22:14:41 <MohammadAG> myTunes? :P
Dec 27 22:14:50 <MohammadAG> I wonder if apple would sue
Dec 27 22:14:56 <RST38h> yessss
Dec 27 22:15:21 <SpeedEvil> Free publicity!
Dec 27 22:15:47 <MohammadAG> myTunes, sounds like maetunes
Dec 27 22:16:00 <lcuk> MohammadAG, "mae[APP]" has been used by a number of apps
Dec 27 22:16:11 <RST38h> mae- is dead
Dec 27 22:16:40 <MohammadAG> meemoplayer? :P
Dec 27 22:16:47 <RST38h> Will Playdo do?
Dec 27 22:16:55 <lcuk> RST38h, well strangely this app is a look and feel replacement of Maemo specific media player, so its not that wrong
Dec 27 22:17:17 <noobmonk3y> +
Dec 27 22:17:33 <RST38h> lcuk: Then call it MediaPlayer+ and be done with it
Dec 27 22:18:04 <MohammadAG> + is an invalid character :P
Dec 27 22:18:13 <lcuk> we are mostly men here
Dec 27 22:18:23 <timeless_mbp> lcuk?
Dec 27 22:18:23 <lcuk> we should just use the first name found
Dec 27 22:18:43 <MohammadAG> MoPlayer then?
Dec 27 22:18:47 * lcuk nods
Dec 27 22:19:06 <RST38h> Mohammedia Player indeed
Dec 27 22:19:24 <Jaffa> Putting ones own name isn't exactly inclusive for contributions from others.
Dec 27 22:19:35 <MohammadAG> indeed
Dec 27 22:19:35 <noobmonk3y> MoPlayer works though
Dec 27 22:19:40 <MohammadAG> but Mo isn't my name :P
Dec 27 22:19:51 <MohammadAG> Moe is a nick otoh xP
Dec 27 22:19:56 <Jaffa> Indeed
Dec 27 22:20:00 <lcuk> isnt debian named after some hackers girlfriend
Dec 27 22:20:09 <MohammadAG> Jaffa, if you thought for one bit I'm using Mohammedia...
Dec 27 22:20:10 <Jaffa> lcuk: Deb(orah) & Ian
Dec 27 22:20:11 <lcuk> mind you, we can add contributions to her :O
Dec 27 22:20:40 <Skald> yay just got kmplayer + mkv video + subtitles working on n900 flawlessly ;D
Dec 27 22:20:56 <Jaffa> Impressive
Dec 27 22:21:42 <noobmonk3y> MohammadAG, just call it Playa then ;) lol
Dec 27 22:22:04 * noobmonk3y cringes at tom cruise saying "Pllllllayer" in a random film
Dec 27 22:22:36 <timeless_mbp> Jaffa: Debra :)
Dec 27 22:23:05 <alterego> I think that was Tropic Thunder
Dec 27 22:23:33 <noobmonk3y> yup ;)
Dec 27 22:23:46 <Jaffa> timeless_mbp: According to Wikipedia you are correct.
Dec 27 22:33:27 <pradeep> hi all
Dec 27 22:38:04 <alterego> Take it extras-devel uploading is out-of-order as well
Dec 27 22:50:58 <toresbe> MohammadAG: btw, is this nicolai fellow on the intermIRC?
Dec 27 22:54:01 <alterego> Now, do I continue to package all of this seperately, or do I make a single "columbus" source tree that just packages the components in different debs like most other projects ..
Dec 27 22:54:17 <alterego> Think I'll ponder on it.
Dec 27 22:54:55 <MohammadAG> toresbe, sometimes, he is
Dec 27 22:55:12 <MohammadAG> alterego, think of it like this
Dec 27 22:55:12 <toresbe> What's his nick?
Dec 27 22:55:22 <MohammadAG> alterego, if you want to update plugins, you need to update the whole source
Dec 27 22:55:26 <MohammadAG> _nicolai sometimes
Dec 27 22:55:31 <MohammadAG> or nicolai_, not sure
Dec 27 22:55:34 <toresbe> MohammadAG: thanks for the info. :)
Dec 27 22:55:34 <alterego> Good point ..
Dec 27 22:55:41 <MohammadAG> alterego, a problem I faced with PSFreedom
Dec 27 22:55:53 <MohammadAG> every time I update app, the modules have to be rebuilt
Dec 27 22:55:54 <alterego> Yeah, seperate versioning is probably useful.
Dec 27 22:55:59 <alterego> That was kind of the reason for doing this.
Dec 27 22:56:06 <MohammadAG> and I couldn't change this since it would involve a lot of changes to paths
Dec 27 22:56:16 <MohammadAG> otherwise dpkg would try to overwrite files and fail
Dec 27 22:56:42 <MohammadAG> (btw, just a theory, I didn't even try to split it, since I thought of overwriting modules in a different package)
Dec 27 22:57:02 <MohammadAG> so, have different sources, you can update the app without rebuilding the modules and vice versa
Dec 27 22:57:22 <MohammadAG> also, have the plugins in a user/ section so users can update them separately
Dec 27 22:57:39 <MohammadAG> but keep in mind, you need to make it compatible with the new/old plugins
Dec 27 22:59:11 <alterego> Hrm ..
Dec 27 22:59:36 <alterego> Well, I don't really want my plugins in user/blah
Dec 27 22:59:40 <alterego> But I'll think about that aswell.
Dec 27 23:00:04 <alterego> I was thinking of basically having columbus-maemo5 depend on columbus-plugins-core, libcolumbus & librxsupport
Dec 27 23:01:19 <MohammadAG> alterego, what if you update plugins without updating the app?
Dec 27 23:01:32 <MohammadAG> you would still need to push two debs if you do that
Dec 27 23:01:49 <alterego> Yes
Dec 27 23:02:09 <alterego> I'll think about it.
Dec 27 23:02:15 <alterego> Or maybe do both
Dec 27 23:02:33 <MohammadAG> think about it now, or you'll have to restructure again :P
Dec 27 23:03:06 <alterego> Because you want plugins to be installed when you install, not separately.
Dec 27 23:03:27 <alterego> But an update to plugins will force an update to plugins but leave everything else intact without breakages.
Dec 27 23:03:40 <alterego> Yeah, I'll do both :P
Dec 27 23:04:04 <alterego> But then there is also libcolumbus :)
Dec 27 23:04:38 <alterego> So, HAM wont update any packages unless they're in user/*, ghey :)
Dec 27 23:04:44 <alterego> Ooo, user/hidden!
Dec 27 23:04:52 <alterego> Like Ovi, that scht works :)
Dec 27 23:05:02 <MohammadAG> user/hidden is retarded
Dec 27 23:05:11 <MohammadAG> anyone who uses apt-get will be f'd in the ass :P
Dec 27 23:05:14 <alterego> It's useful for this.
Dec 27 23:05:20 <alterego> Why?
Dec 27 23:05:32 <MohammadAG> E: Handler Silently Failed
Dec 27 23:05:34 <MohammadAG> try it
Dec 27 23:05:37 <MohammadAG> apt-get install panorama
Dec 27 23:05:38 <alterego> Hrm
Dec 27 23:05:44 <MohammadAG> you need a modified apt package
Dec 27 23:05:44 <alterego> What about dual sections ^.^
Dec 27 23:06:13 <MohammadAG> dnl Check whether to disable the user/hidden packages
Dec 27 23:06:17 <MohammadAG>   --disable-block-hidden  Don't block 'user/hidden' packages],
Dec 27 23:09:15 <alterego> Meh, can't upload to incoming-builder then ..
Dec 27 23:10:22 <MohammadAG> alterego, it's down
Dec 27 23:10:27 <MohammadAG> drop.maemo.org
Dec 27 23:10:27 <alterego> I know.
Dec 27 23:10:30 <MohammadAG> *.maemo.org
Dec 27 23:10:31 <alterego> all day ..
Dec 27 23:10:36 <MohammadAG> talk's an exception
Dec 27 23:10:37 <alterego> laaaaaame
Dec 27 23:11:02 <alterego> Yes, this isn't the first or even second or third time I've suffered this :D
Dec 27 23:11:08 <MohammadAG> nowplayingwindow.ui? :P
Dec 27 23:13:54 <alterego> What massive ISP firms should do is employ people from all kinds of different religions then get other workers to take the slack when a religion has its' massive holidays.
Dec 27 23:14:16 <alterego> Thus solving religious wars and such.
Dec 27 23:14:26 <alterego> We'd all be one happy connected family then :)
Dec 27 23:17:27 <loft306> thats to easy alterego
Dec 27 23:18:07 <alterego> Obviously agnostics and atheists would have to be donated holidays.
Dec 27 23:18:22 <alterego> Maybe even they could get all religious holidays off for showing common sense.
Dec 27 23:18:26 <alterego> *chuckles*
Dec 27 23:18:50 <luke-jr> alterego: that would encourage false religions
Dec 27 23:19:03 <alterego> luke-jr: "false" religions?
Dec 27 23:19:11 <alterego> You mean, "religions"?
Dec 27 23:19:20 <luke-jr> I mean false religions
Dec 27 23:19:22 <alterego> Anyway, this is one of the no-noes in #maemo
Dec 27 23:20:20 <alterego> All religions are false to another religion tbh ..
Dec 27 23:20:24 <alterego> So that argument makes no sense.
Dec 27 23:21:50 <luke-jr> alterego: false is an objective measure
Dec 27 23:22:31 <alterego> Which gets thrown out the window when you talk about religion :P
Dec 27 23:22:43 <luke-jr> nope
Dec 27 23:22:52 * alterego needs to setup his own repository.
Dec 27 23:24:21 <loft306> the'll just have to work all the time
Dec 27 23:24:23 <alterego> Think I might start mirroring extras ..
Dec 27 23:24:32 <loft306> ack! was scrolled
Dec 27 23:25:42 <alterego> Really impressed how well Columbus runs in scratchbox ..
Dec 27 23:26:23 <alterego> Tomorrow I'm implementing columbus<->columbus streaming
Dec 27 23:26:43 <alterego> And finishing with my header sanitization.
Dec 27 23:28:56 <alterego> Wow, portrait is really screwed in scratchbox ..
Dec 27 23:30:05 * loft306 eyes are fuvvy today cont see the device 
Dec 27 23:30:13 <loft306> fuzzy
Dec 27 23:30:51 <loft306> much less read onything on the screen
Dec 27 23:33:09 <MohammadAG> alterego, how are you turning it to portrait mode?
Dec 27 23:33:14 <MohammadAG> mce?
Dec 27 23:33:22 <alterego> Using Qt
Dec 27 23:33:29 <MohammadAG> actually, nvm, the Xeyphr window's the same
Dec 27 23:33:33 <alterego> The normal way in qt by setting window flags.
Dec 27 23:33:34 <MohammadAG> so the controls will be...
Dec 27 23:33:51 <DocScrutinizer> friggin maemo STILL down? >:-(
Dec 27 23:33:54 <MohammadAG> yeah, but controls won't be flipped
Dec 27 23:34:49 <alterego> Well, it stopped working.
Dec 27 23:34:54 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: stop your DoS attack now!
Dec 27 23:35:05 <crashanddie> not me
Dec 27 23:35:10 <alterego> Orientation was fine, but menu didn't work and my swipe to pan views stopped working.
Dec 27 23:35:58 * DocScrutinizer suspects maemo has created his own DoS suicide. recursive CSS
Dec 27 23:36:17 <alterego> Heh
Dec 27 23:37:53 <DocScrutinizer> and all programmers know a recursion needs a termination condition. Maemo's is "if server_down == 100"
Dec 27 23:38:17 * loft306 opens ffx with 12 maemo tabs
Dec 27 23:38:29 <loft306> all but one loaded
Dec 27 23:38:49 <loft306> the wviki still out to lunchL
Dec 27 23:38:50 <DocScrutinizer> errr
Dec 27 23:38:54 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Dec 27 23:38:55 <loft306> ?
Dec 27 23:39:41 <loft306> what happenedL christamas ?
Dec 27 23:41:11 <DocScrutinizer> nxt time friggin wiki is up I'll have to wget it. Completely
Dec 27 23:41:21 <loft306> heh
Dec 27 23:41:45 * alterego wonders why madde isn't picking up his header files in sysroot/usr/include ..
Dec 27 23:42:00 <loft306> Hint to nokia: hawe a bacjup snerver
Dec 27 23:42:12 <loft306> fingers gona alreaiy
Dec 27 23:42:28 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: google cache?
Dec 27 23:42:47 <loft306> heh
Dec 27 23:42:57 <achipa> hint to loft306: have a spellchecker :)
Dec 27 23:43:04 <loft306> i do
Dec 27 23:43:13 <DocScrutinizer> google cache will survive a final teardown of m.o by Nokia just so long
Dec 27 23:43:19 <loft306> but its not me spelling just rired fingers
Dec 27 23:43:26 <loft306> tired
Dec 27 23:43:27 <achipa> but anyway, will have to ask what our distinguished SLA is...
Dec 27 23:43:49 <alterego> No one is talking about a final tear-down ffs.
Dec 27 23:43:53 <loft306> and need spell fixer
Dec 27 23:43:57 <alterego> And that is _years_ away ..
Dec 27 23:44:21 <achipa> prolly 95% :S
Dec 27 23:44:37 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: that's the problem with teardowns. They often happen without any warning
Dec 27 23:44:56 <alterego> You're doing that annoying thing again
Dec 27 23:45:22 <alterego> You obviously don't believe it's some conspiritorial Nokia tear down.
Dec 27 23:45:28 * loft306 scratches head
Dec 27 23:45:51 <alterego> And maemo.org costs so little to run from their perspective, they've also promised it'll be up as long as we're still here.
Dec 27 23:45:59 <alterego> And they wouldn't turn it off without telling us.
Dec 27 23:46:01 <DocScrutinizer> I don't believe anything except my own backups
Dec 27 23:46:08 <alterego> Despite what you may think of them,
Dec 27 23:46:34 <alterego> Well, give them an offer for maemo.org :P
Dec 27 23:46:47 <DocScrutinizer> eh?
Dec 27 23:46:51 <alterego> Besides, maemo.org is controlled by a sub-contractor.
Dec 27 23:46:54 <alterego> afair
Dec 27 23:47:00 <DocScrutinizer> even worse
Dec 27 23:47:02 <alterego> Nokia have very little input into it.
Dec 27 23:47:08 <jacekowski> bs
Dec 27 23:47:10 <ShadowJK> It's not hosted at nokia :-)
Dec 27 23:47:21 <jacekowski> when red bend started sending c&d letters
Dec 27 23:47:23 <alterego> Not really, the sub-contractor is a massive maemo fan
Dec 27 23:47:30 <jacekowski> they were very eager to do it
Dec 27 23:47:36 <jacekowski> and nokia lawyers got involved
Dec 27 23:47:39 <alterego> It's a FOSS pushing company, can't remmeber what they're called.
Dec 27 23:47:42 <DocScrutinizer> I don't care - I just like to have my backup. And I honestly doubt anybody needs to flame me for that
Dec 27 23:48:01 <loft306> heh
Dec 27 23:48:05 <alterego> Sorry, it's just your attitude :P
Dec 27 23:48:35 <alterego> You're always, "It's the end of the world!" .. "Nokia are destroying the best mobile platform" bleurgh
Dec 27 23:49:04 <DocScrutinizer> where do you conclude about my attitude. I don't offer enough detail for you to have the slightest idea about my attitude
Dec 27 23:49:07 <alterego> Now why doesn't madde see my freain' headers ..
Dec 27 23:49:46 <alterego> It is how you come across DocScrutinizer, it's nothing personal but the way you word things often get missinterpreted (or maybe not) as rude and generally quite negative.
Dec 27 23:49:57 <alterego> Though, I'm british and it's a pretty common tone ..
Dec 27 23:50:23 <jacekowski> well i'm really surprised that nokia isn't hosting it on their own servers or something
Dec 27 23:50:30 <jacekowski> but have it like that outsourced
Dec 27 23:50:58 <ShadowJK> jacekowski, iirc because maemo.org wanted more flexibility than what having nokia IT people standing over their shoulders would have given
Dec 27 23:51:52 <alterego> nyurgh ..
Dec 27 23:51:57 <DocScrutinizer> even when I say "XY sucks!" you can't know if I'm bitter or have tongue in cheek
Dec 27 23:52:20 <alterego> m'hmm.
Dec 27 23:52:27 <ShadowJK> That's why you don't do tongue in cheek on IRC without having the tongue in cheek smilies
Dec 27 23:52:44 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Dec 27 23:52:57 <alterego> Heh
Dec 27 23:53:06 <DocScrutinizer> I need no smilies, I'm smiling myself
Dec 27 23:53:19 <alterego> So, Qt Creator seems my header, but it fails to find it when included ..
Dec 27 23:53:20 <ShadowJK> That's communication failure then
Dec 27 23:53:21 <DocScrutinizer> aaaaall the time
Dec 27 23:53:42 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, I'm admittedly poor at communications
Dec 27 23:54:05 <alterego> Oh, that is just absurd
Dec 27 23:54:18 <alterego> It compiles when I build it manually in madde ..
Dec 27 23:54:26 <alterego> But qt creator fscks it up.
Dec 27 23:54:43 <DocScrutinizer> check env
Dec 27 23:54:50 <alterego> Yeah, doing it.
Dec 27 23:55:29 <alterego> Looks fine.
Dec 27 23:55:30 <alterego> Oh well ..
Dec 27 23:55:49 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer sucks!
Dec 27 23:55:55 <alterego> Heh
Dec 27 23:55:58 <DocScrutinizer> I concur
Dec 27 23:56:31 * GAN900 complains ironically about cold weather.
Dec 27 23:59:04 <lolloo> how do I make softcamera button do CTRL+SHIFT+R
Dec 27 23:59:26 <lolloo> for portrait mode.
Dec 28 00:01:17 <lolloo> is there a way to let softcamera button click these .
Dec 28 00:01:27 <DocScrutinizer> errr, there's "an app for that" - well not exactly. Something like cam-menu or whatever
Dec 28 00:02:05 <lolloo> shortcutd app
Dec 28 00:02:18 <DocScrutinizer> just the question what ctl-sh-R really does
Dec 28 00:02:34 <lolloo> rotation portrait mode.
Dec 28 00:02:42 <lolloo> for all apps on N900
Dec 28 00:02:45 <DocScrutinizer> I know THAT
Dec 28 00:02:49 <DocScrutinizer> but HOW
Dec 28 00:02:56 <lolloo> just click it
Dec 28 00:03:05 <DocScrutinizer> *burp*
Dec 28 00:03:06 <lolloo> simple
Dec 28 00:03:19 <lolloo> amazing u never knew
Dec 28 00:03:33 <DocScrutinizer> sorry I expected a developer answer
Dec 28 00:03:51 <lolloo> yeah Shortcutd is developed by developer
Dec 28 00:03:59 <lolloo> so get it and dont ask.
Dec 28 00:04:10 <DocScrutinizer> lolloo: there's some method called in system, whether it's a dbus call, invocation of xrndr or whatever
Dec 28 00:04:26 <DocScrutinizer> lolloo: you starting to get unpolite
Dec 28 00:04:28 <lolloo> no I use shortcutD
Dec 28 00:04:42 <lolloo> its cold
Dec 28 00:06:42 <DocScrutinizer> so if it needs any more proof I suck on conversation....
Dec 28 00:06:55 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, get your answer elsewhere then
Dec 28 00:06:59 <lolloo> Me too when its cold.
Dec 28 00:07:14 <zutesmog> DocScrutinizer: I don't blame  you!
Dec 28 00:13:14 <lolloo> omg I was looking for one.
Dec 28 00:13:15 <lolloo> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-Nokia-Apps-Development-OpenSymbian/dp/1430231777/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1293494691&sr=8-3
Dec 28 00:13:26 <lolloo> does it apply to N900?
Dec 28 00:14:09 <alterego> Hrm,
Dec 28 00:15:01 <DocScrutinizer> wow, I'm wondering which brilliant answer will take so long to write down
Dec 28 00:15:26 <lolloo> since it's QT I think it applies to N900 maemo5
Dec 28 00:15:29 <lolloo> right?
Dec 28 00:15:43 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, I'm off before *I* start to become unpolite
Dec 28 00:16:12 <lolloo> P.R1.3 has QT support I think.
Dec 28 00:16:56 <alterego> We've had Qt since PR1.2 actually.
Dec 28 00:17:08 <alterego> Well, before in fact but officially in images in PR1.2
Dec 28 00:17:11 <lolloo> oh never knew.
Dec 28 00:17:20 <lolloo> stupid me.
Dec 28 00:17:43 <alterego> Anyway, that book is probably fairly applicable to maemo5 and Qt
Dec 28 00:17:59 <alterego> But obviously maemo specific things will be missing
Dec 28 00:18:18 <lolloo> mmm any books pleeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaase
Dec 28 00:18:28 <lolloo> QT specially
Dec 28 00:18:44 <lolloo> QT will support new phones too. right?
Dec 28 00:18:57 <alterego> Well that worked.
Dec 28 00:19:07 <lolloo> awesome
Dec 28 00:19:10 <alterego> To use mad for packaging you have to use -d to ignore dependencies.
Dec 28 00:19:44 <alterego> lolloo: to be honest, I don't know any decent books for Qt, I learned everything looking at Qt source and reading API docs.
Dec 28 00:19:56 <lolloo> thats you.
Dec 28 00:20:03 <lolloo> me nooooooooooob
Dec 28 00:20:06 <alterego> If you've never programmed before, a book is probably advisable, though not always neccessary
Dec 28 00:20:14 <pupnik> this npm guy did some cool work with high-level GUI toolkits back in 1990  http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=121998
Dec 28 00:20:41 <lolloo> I want something future proof, I dont want to waste time.
Dec 28 00:20:50 <lolloo> I know C++
Dec 28 00:21:24 <alterego> If you know C++ you shouldn't need a book on Qt
Dec 28 00:21:31 <lolloo> wow
Dec 28 00:21:31 <alterego> It's just a C++ application framework.
Dec 28 00:21:55 <alterego> There's the official Qt book, which has a slightly older version online.
Dec 28 00:21:57 <alterego> For free
Dec 28 00:22:13 <lcuk> i like reading real books sometimes
Dec 28 00:22:16 <alterego> Newer technologies, well, there's probably a lot more useful information in blogs and examples tbh
Dec 28 00:22:23 <alterego> Sure, I'm just saying.
Dec 28 00:23:00 <alterego> If you want something futureproof, don't buy a book on programming in an API that changes quite a lot over time :)
Dec 28 00:23:08 <lcuk> blogs and examples are too easy to get sidet ... oh cool, a new comment
Dec 28 00:23:53 <alterego> Heh
Dec 28 00:24:10 <lcuk> if the api changes so drastically with each revision that the fundamentals are not important then there is something wrong.
Dec 28 00:24:17 <alterego> I really like this mouse I got for Crimbo :)
Dec 28 00:24:25 <alterego> lc
Dec 28 00:24:48 <alterego> I don't think the fundamentals of Qt are worth a book :)
Dec 28 00:25:02 <lcuk> then the book is not aimed at you
Dec 28 00:25:11 <lolloo> what books you got lcuk.
Dec 28 00:25:37 <lcuk> been reading the gruffalo recently
Dec 28 00:25:42 <alterego> I would recommend the Qt book though, I read the online version, well, some bits of it, and it seems nice.
Dec 28 00:25:43 <lcuk> another few days and I might actually finish it
Dec 28 00:25:56 <alterego> The Gruffalo! :D
Dec 28 00:26:48 <alterego> Hrm, note to self, packaging using mad is impossible (I think)
Dec 28 00:27:14 <alterego> Well, dh_shlibdeps is failing now.
Dec 28 00:27:18 <lcuk> last book I actually sat down and read was {fleet/juggler/destroyer} of worlds series by Larry Niven
Dec 28 00:27:25 <alterego> I wonder how it gets its' dep list.
Dec 28 00:27:50 <alterego> It's found the library but can't tell what package that library comes from.
Dec 28 00:27:57 * DocScrutinizer shakes head about Lennart's appearance @ 27C3
Dec 28 00:28:44 <DocScrutinizer> reminded me at balmer rap
Dec 28 00:29:09 <loft306> ewww
Dec 28 00:29:25 <alterego> Oooo, the button on the side is a "back" button.
Dec 28 00:29:26 <alterego> Neat.
Dec 28 00:29:32 <DocScrutinizer> "developers developers developers " errr "it's freeeeeeeeee! it's freeeeeeeeeee!!!"
Dec 28 00:34:19 <lolloo> congrat me. I bought the book
Dec 28 00:34:34 <DocScrutinizer> at least i'm now clear about how PA managed to creap in everywhere
Dec 28 00:34:35 <alterego> Hrm, I'm gonna need to come up with a better development setup now :/
Dec 28 00:34:57 <alterego> I guess if I could work on integrating Qt Creator better with scratchbox so I get code completion
Dec 28 00:35:54 <DocScrutinizer> probably Lennart visited the major distro HQ and acted ther the same way he did @ 27C3, until they promised to include PA to next release if only he leaves and never comes back
Dec 28 00:38:18 <nox-> haha
Dec 28 00:38:22 <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: was berlin fun?
Dec 28 01:14:29 <npm> pupnik: i also used WINTERP to build http://nielsmayer.com/wwweasel/ and http://nielsmayer.com/p93-shepherd.pdf (doing "web" before the web, using email)
Dec 28 01:19:01 <alterego> "maemo.org (except talk.) down?" 14 posts
Dec 28 01:19:11 <alterego> I guess maemo really is becoming small.
Dec 28 01:28:53 <npm> any mention on when it'll be back up?
Dec 28 01:29:41 <Arkenoi> so the flash player 10 from TI is actually even _slower_ than default one?
Dec 28 01:36:22 <nox-> i think it was mentioned here that the default one was optimized by nokia too...
Dec 28 01:36:44 <jacekowski> yes
Dec 28 01:36:58 <jacekowski> and it's not real flash 10 as such
Dec 28 01:37:11 <jacekowski> some things are missing
Dec 28 01:37:56 <ShadowJK> what things?
Dec 28 01:41:03 <ShadowJK> real features or just "hw accel missing", which was pretty much a given as there was no hw accel in the desktop linux version either.
Dec 28 01:42:49 <Arkenoi> ShadowJK, but it is *not* mising in android version, right?
Dec 28 01:43:36 <ShadowJK> eh nfi :)
Dec 28 02:52:42 <lucent> checking out the T-Mobile IPv6 Friendly-User-Trial, now. Still setting up N900 and Maemo
Dec 28 02:53:25 <lucent> it's weird that I have to work around the Maemo interface to get it done, hmm... what's a sensible way to add IPv6 DNS?
Dec 28 02:56:10 <luke-jr> lucent: what plan do you use?
Dec 28 02:57:12 <lucent> luke-jr: it's EvenMorePlus500 basic and I've added unlimited net for $10/month
Dec 28 02:57:34 <luke-jr> lucent: you can possibly drop that to $5/mo via retentions dept
Dec 28 02:57:50 * luke-jr doesn't want to risk upsetting his $0/mo unlimited data >_<
Dec 28 02:57:54 <lucent> heh, good advice! :)
Dec 28 02:58:42 <lucent> have you tried the IPv6 trial, then?
Dec 28 02:58:55 <luke-jr> Google sez T-Mo does have a $5/mo data plan for "old" customers
Dec 28 02:59:09 <luke-jr> no, since I don't want to risk losing my plan :P
Dec 28 02:59:21 <luke-jr> I'm sure if anyone looked into it, they'd say too bad
Dec 28 02:59:27 <lucent> oh okay, now I understand
Dec 28 02:59:38 <luke-jr> now if someone else with it has succeeded…. then I'll try :P
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 28 02:59:56 2010