**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 31 02:59:58 2010 Dec 31 03:00:55 comawhite: it's that they manufactured it less than years ago ( so regardless of what it is in warranty ) Dec 31 03:01:37 jacekowski: USA warranty laws are weird Dec 31 03:01:39 comawhite: but if it was manufactured more than year ago you have to provide proof that it spent some time on a shelf and you just got it not so long ago Dec 31 03:02:37 but yes, actually you are probably right Dec 31 03:02:58 i don't think it's warranty law directly Dec 31 03:03:13 it's just that nokia instead of requiring proof of purchase always Dec 31 03:03:26 will accept phone that was manufactured less than year ago without it Dec 31 03:03:27 I have no idea what's the legislation about warranty in US Dec 31 03:03:37 that's how i think it works Dec 31 03:03:42 yes Dec 31 03:04:08 it also would mean comawhite's phone has 1st birthday in 10 days :-D Dec 31 03:04:39 (assuming the warranty is 1 year) Dec 31 03:05:39 DocScrutinizer, I bought it used and only had it for a week or two Dec 31 03:05:49 comawhite: anyway it'd be interesting to know what same webpage says when you visit it again in two days Dec 31 03:06:24 yea Dec 31 03:07:08 nevertheless make sure you send in your N900 for repair ASAP Dec 31 03:07:15 guys , can we have an N8 style clock on N900 ? Dec 31 03:07:25 sure Dec 31 03:07:49 * DocScrutinizer wonders what an N8 style clock might look like Dec 31 03:08:54 daxt: the question is if we can have exactly what you want, on maemo Dec 31 03:09:04 DocScrutinizer, have to wait for the new year since its new years tomorrow night Dec 31 03:09:21 yep, I see Dec 31 03:10:02 well, if you send it 2.1. you're well in time Dec 31 03:10:25 DocScrutinizer http://images.dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/key-lock-clock-2.jpg Dec 31 03:11:22 daxt: yes. this is feasible Dec 31 03:12:16 there has to be an app somewhere which does it already Dec 31 03:12:52 DocScrutinizer , what about the battery ? Dec 31 03:12:53 daxt: I'm not sure though what exactly are the details you want. Dec 31 03:13:07 that's one of those details Dec 31 03:13:40 you can not have a backlight for that clock all the time, or your battery is down after some 10h max Dec 31 03:14:41 (this isn't different to N8. But maybe N8 doesn't need any backlight. N900 basically does - at least for color display with good contrast" Dec 31 03:14:44 ) Dec 31 03:15:04 N8 is AMOLED Dec 31 03:15:09 aaah Dec 31 03:15:12 screen never turns off Dec 31 03:15:21 FFS Dec 31 03:15:58 http://symbianworld.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Nokia-N8-Symbian%5E3-Screen-Saver-Big-Clock.jpg Dec 31 03:16:11 the nice part about AMOLED: one bright pixel needs just one pixel's power, not a whole backlight Dec 31 03:16:29 they do it in a smart way Dec 31 03:16:33 but a bright webpage will suck more than LCD Dec 31 03:16:38 the numbers are only borders Dec 31 03:16:47 pupnik: yep Dec 31 03:16:51 possibly Dec 31 03:17:03 MohammadAG: outline Dec 31 03:17:06 yes Dec 31 03:17:33 though I find it annoying sometimes Dec 31 03:17:40 daxt: so the answer is: no, sorry. N900 can't do this Dec 31 03:17:45 MohammadAG (PBUU) , is it ur n8 ? Dec 31 03:17:51 you see, most of my teachers think the device is off Dec 31 03:18:02 when the screen's actually locked Dec 31 03:18:13 daxt, PBUU? no, it's from google Dec 31 03:18:22 I have an N8 though - sorta Dec 31 03:18:31 (PBUU ) ( Peace Be Upon U ) Dec 31 03:18:47 that's for the prophet only lol Dec 31 03:19:20 DocScrutinizer can we change the n900 screen to OLED ? Dec 31 03:19:26 also notice how dark this photo is. Dec 31 03:19:32 daxt: no Dec 31 03:19:41 MohammedAG i am also a prophet ;) Dec 31 03:19:53 err Dec 31 03:20:02 not THE prophet though Dec 31 03:20:09 DocScrutinizer, it's quite bright :P Dec 31 03:20:26 * MohammadAG 's looking at the N8 now Dec 31 03:20:51 like the 2nd brightness option on the N900 Dec 31 03:20:55 2/5 Dec 31 03:21:06 hmm, yes Dec 31 03:22:41 DocScrutinizer, also http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=906515&postcount=12 :P Dec 31 03:23:06 so we dont have the luxury of getting an OLED for our beloved venerable N900 !!! :( Dec 31 03:24:30 technically, you might be able to get one working Dec 31 03:24:40 ya Dec 31 03:24:42 you just need to hack around the kernel Dec 31 03:24:44 it must be possible Dec 31 03:24:52 and the hardware Dec 31 03:24:56 daxt_: do you have the luxury to get a ferrari 12cyl engine for your beloved daihatsu? Dec 31 03:25:08 LOL Dec 31 03:25:44 DocScrutinizer - but i can get a Toyota V6 :D Dec 31 03:25:55 and you can get N8 Dec 31 03:26:11 lmao Dec 31 03:27:25 daxt_: the N900 hardware isn't built to work with an OLED screen - even if you'd fine a OLED display that would match by mechanical size Dec 31 03:27:38 find* Dec 31 03:30:56 so you'd need additional hardware and probably a new case (let's call it N8) to hook up that OLED screen to N900, e.g. by VNC ;-) Dec 31 03:32:20 finding a vnc-client for N8 is probably the easiest way to implement OLED on N900 Dec 31 03:33:05 wait! or simply hook up an OLED TV to N900 AV-receptacle ;-D Dec 31 03:33:24 if you want to drive a cheap V12 (until it breaks) find a 1990s bmw 750i Dec 31 03:33:44 both ways, you won't have the same resolution Dec 31 03:33:48 DocScrutinizer, actually Dec 31 03:33:58 yeah, until it breaks means usually 1000km on those Dec 31 03:34:02 if you find me an OLED screen with the same ribbon Dec 31 03:34:17 I might be arsed to do some kernel patches to get it working :P Dec 31 03:34:30 you have to be knowledgeable about cars to even identify a good one Dec 31 03:34:55 If I'd find a OLED wit same ribbon, then we'd not need any kernel patches Dec 31 03:35:15 I love SSDs Dec 31 03:35:59 hi GeneralAntilles Dec 31 03:36:29 DocScrutinizer, you might, possibly to rename the sys path for backlight Dec 31 03:36:40 I doubt mce looks in /sys/class/backlight/* Dec 31 03:36:59 might need to* Dec 31 03:37:30 nah, the backlight wouldn't change, as you'd need to use the backlight power to light up the pixels. So no change there Dec 31 03:37:58 toldya, same cable = same interface Dec 31 03:38:13 hi all, for some time now I've been having problems with Qt apps on my N900 - all the buttons are invisible, I can only see their labels Dec 31 03:38:35 any idea what might've caused that / how to fix apart from flashing? Dec 31 03:38:49 choose another theme maybe? Dec 31 03:39:03 default theme set Dec 31 03:39:09 and only Qt apps suffer Dec 31 03:39:11 anyway Dec 31 03:39:28 hmm, reinstall Qt libs maybe Dec 31 03:39:45 *all* Qt apps? Dec 31 03:40:32 apt-get --reinstall install hildon-theme-alpha libqt4-gui libqt4-maemo5 Dec 31 03:40:57 looks about right, yeah Dec 31 03:41:14 pupnik, those things are such shit, though. Dec 31 03:41:32 pupnik, they go for, like, 5-9k here. Dec 31 03:41:44 too much :-P Dec 31 03:42:53 Yeah, well, still 7-series BMWs Dec 31 03:42:54 I had a SEC500, way better. Also 1990 Dec 31 03:43:12 May have gone down since I last paid attention, though. Dec 31 03:44:14 aka W126. In USA probably only pimps drive that car X-P Dec 31 03:47:08 http://www.google.de/images?q=500SEC+W126C Dec 31 03:56:14 good morning Dec 31 04:01:25 MohammadAG: windows sources are available for licensees/governments Dec 31 04:02:13 alterego: lat-lon input should support Dec 31 04:11:31 timeless_mbp, heh Dec 31 04:11:40 Nokia-N900:/$ ./cliSend /test.o Dec 31 04:11:40 I/O warning : failed to load external entity "/usr/share/sharing/services/pixelpipe.service.xml" Dec 31 04:11:41 I/O warning : failed to load external entity "/usr/share/sharing/services/youtube.service.xml" Dec 31 04:11:41 Segmentation fault Dec 31 04:11:41 meh Dec 31 04:12:59 comawhite: for reference when using skype you always need the + (or 00) [re: HelpMe] Dec 31 04:14:20 (and fwiw, the traditional way to dial international from the USA is 011 + country code + ...) Dec 31 04:17:58 DocScrutinizer: quality car :) Dec 31 04:18:12 why am i not surprised Dec 31 04:21:40 http://www.youmobile.org/blogs/posts/Josephws/category/Nokia-2010-07-14/50/1 [ Nokia N8 sales nearing 4 million units ] Dec 31 04:24:16 Anyone know the best place to buy an N900? Dec 31 04:40:56 nokia E7 has a great design imo http://images.dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/nokia-e7-smartphone-01.jpg Dec 31 04:42:53 it *looks* nice. Wait til you _use_ it, and frequently have to press Q A Z BS ENTER CTRL Dec 31 04:47:24 DocScrutinizer: BS? It has a bullshit button? :p Dec 31 04:47:58 yeah, BS on a shovel Dec 31 04:48:13 I like E8 Dec 31 04:48:20 its faaaaaaaaaaaaast Dec 31 04:49:05 wow E7 is coooool Dec 31 04:49:08 the BS looks a bit like an x Dec 31 04:49:12 I need a keybord Dec 31 04:49:49 at this <=| is a bit like the shovel :-P Dec 31 04:50:02 I hope N9 has cool design too! Dec 31 04:50:11 am getting it with MeeGo! Dec 31 04:51:24 awesome color! for the E7! Dec 31 04:51:37 everybody likes blue. Dec 31 04:52:08 Termana: the meaning of the bullshit key is "oops I typed bullshit" Dec 31 04:52:46 with the BS key you can shovel it away Dec 31 04:55:30 anyone know what the default backkey is on the n900 for nitdroid? Dec 31 04:55:59 camera button Dec 31 04:57:20 DocScrutinizer: I suppose that's why you have to frequently press it Dec 31 04:57:22 :p Dec 31 04:57:56 E7 has better keyboard than N900 Dec 31 04:58:37 Hey guys, where on the filesystem is contact data stored? Dec 31 04:59:03 My screen finally died, and I need to get a phone number off. Dec 31 04:59:25 RobbieThe1st: find /home/user -name '*.db*' Dec 31 04:59:33 k Dec 31 04:59:39 home/user Dec 31 05:00:46 RobbieThe1st: /home/user/.osso-abook/ Dec 31 05:01:03 I guess Dec 31 05:01:31 Thanks Dec 31 05:04:01 RobbieThe1st: you'd be maybe better off hooking the N900 up to a TV Dec 31 05:04:36 Possible; I don't think I have a four-connector cable, though Dec 31 05:04:50 I didn't get one with my n900(used and all) Dec 31 05:04:53 then in contacts app, pick export from menu Dec 31 05:05:23 is there anything i can glue on my fingertip for better accuracy on capacitive screens? Dec 31 05:05:32 pencil sharpener no workee Dec 31 05:05:38 nope Dec 31 05:05:47 how can I run MKV video on N900? Dec 31 05:05:49 capacitive screen needs quite big point Dec 31 05:05:50 I can't see -anything-. I have SSH working... But I forgot my password. I'm going to backup my rootfs, copy that off(I can do that blind via BM)... Dec 31 05:05:53 nope, C-TS are of poor accuracy Dec 31 05:05:56 lolloo: you can't Dec 31 05:06:02 lolloo: as in you can Dec 31 05:06:03 RobbieThe1st: /usr/bin/osso-backup Dec 31 05:06:08 lolloo: but with low framerate Dec 31 05:06:10 RobbieThe1st: you can run that with ssh Dec 31 05:06:16 RobbieThe1st: over X Dec 31 05:06:30 I installed KMPlayer. Dec 31 05:06:33 RobbieThe1st: I mean - set DISPLAy onto your desktop. Dec 31 05:06:35 Oh Dec 31 05:06:39 but stays on buffering. Dec 31 05:06:54 I'll try that as soon as I recover my password Dec 31 05:07:19 RobbieThe1st: how backup your fs? Dec 31 05:07:21 jacekowski, sad, thankyou. Dec 31 05:07:21 Idiot me didn't use a standard password for it when I was testing SSH functionality Dec 31 05:07:48 BackupMenu V2(which I wrote..) so it's a tarball Dec 31 05:08:12 ah Dec 31 05:08:52 am going to make N900 use GPU on psp using USB. Dec 31 05:08:55 Wow. I'm amazed. It actually worked. Now, lets see... Dec 31 05:09:28 N900 is missing a good GPU accelerator. Dec 31 05:11:20 anyone know of a US source for replacement N900 stylus? Dec 31 05:11:22 Ah. That worked - Grabbed the rootfs, copied out passwd, ran through johntheripper... (pass was: "mypass") Dec 31 05:11:28 or at least a source that takes $ instead of euros Dec 31 05:11:41 Ebay? Dec 31 05:11:49 besides ebay Dec 31 05:12:26 ds3: Whittle one Dec 31 05:12:36 www.osmocom.org Dec 31 05:13:15 that allows you to map out the antennas on your computer Dec 31 05:14:36 he baseband firmware for the motorola c155 here: Dec 31 05:15:34 ...And problem solved. "cat /media/disk/user/.osso-abook/db/addressbook.db"; info in plain text Dec 31 05:18:09 hmm yeah, for a messed up structure just to grep out a single number, that's perfectly feasible :-D Dec 31 05:18:13 Quick question, guys: On the N900's mainboard, there's a little clock-backup battery. Does anyone know anything about the type/voltage of this battery? I assume it's either a 1.6V or 3V... Dec 31 05:19:04 it's a probably hitachy very special LiIon cell Dec 31 05:19:12 Hitachi even Dec 31 05:19:25 something like 2..2.5V Dec 31 05:19:58 Or Seiko Dec 31 05:20:03 o_O they make such ? I thought 3.7v was the norm Dec 31 05:20:18 not for backup cells Dec 31 05:22:54 http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Seiko-Instruments/HB414-IV01E/?qs=VbHzlErGQr7%2bGt3HnzKCqg== Dec 31 05:23:02 3.0V actually Dec 31 05:25:08 they are known to suck and leak and break Dec 31 05:26:10 on Openmoko FR we had like 40% dead cells, after some 6 months from production Dec 31 05:26:14 blah Dec 31 05:26:50 so actually you're better of with a CRnnnn primary cell Dec 31 05:27:13 why not use a supercap? Dec 31 05:27:21 or even better, some goldcap or similar. 1F should fit nicely Dec 31 05:29:05 or maybe 0.07F ;-D Dec 31 05:29:29 aka XH414H Dec 31 05:35:39 DocScrutinizer: But what would charge the cap? Dec 31 05:35:46 Run a line from the battery? Dec 31 05:36:08 nah, it's charged by same electronic that cares about backup battery Dec 31 05:36:39 Oh, it does get charged? I thought it was a primary cell Dec 31 05:36:40 DocScrutinizer: you should get an Archos A70s too... http://i.imgur.com/g9d5l.jpg Dec 31 05:37:40 RobbieThe1st: it's supposed to withstand 200..1000 charge cycles. But in real life it's worse than a primary cell Dec 31 05:38:10 Fair enough; I'll find a small cap to replace it Dec 31 05:38:34 RobbieThe1st: XH414H Dec 31 05:38:40 http://de.mouser.com/catalog/642/2318.pdf Dec 31 05:39:54 Is that the original one? Dec 31 05:40:34 that is a capacitor. Original of Freerunner is at top of page Dec 31 05:40:49 HB414 Dec 31 05:41:35 Ah Dec 31 05:41:43 ok, the capacitor has only 70mAs or somesuch, instead of 0.1mAh Dec 31 05:42:21 but it should still suffice for a reasonably long period of keeping the RTC running Dec 31 05:43:10 how long was the orig. battery -supposed- to last? Dec 31 05:43:16 something from hours to days at least Dec 31 05:43:28 original one: years Dec 31 05:44:43 actually for FR PCF50633 chip with RTC the current drawn from backup battery wasn't specified. Some uA Dec 31 05:45:31 So, that should last a few weeks at least - if the orig has 360mAs vs 70 Dec 31 05:46:00 yep, at very least it should last >1h Dec 31 05:46:27 Better than the <5s I get now... Dec 31 05:46:33 and this is time without main battery. Even a depleted main battery still can power the RTC Dec 31 05:47:08 so realistically an hour is more than enough, to swap batteries Dec 31 05:47:27 probably it will be enough to charge cell externally as well Dec 31 05:47:36 (~3h) Dec 31 05:48:40 Yea Dec 31 05:53:39 RobbieThe1st: take the years from above with a grain of salt. We never did real calculations it seems, as we didn't even know the power consumption of our RTC. I think I've seen other such chips' datasheets and there's been 0.x uA been mentioned Dec 31 05:54:02 RobbieThe1st: also - first thing to do is check if you are covered by warranty. It's a bit silly to start opening it if you are Dec 31 05:54:20 you could dig up the corresponding value from twl4030 datasheet maybe Dec 31 05:57:06 aiui N900 can't be older than a year. So most probably you still have waranty Dec 31 05:57:38 it's a bit more than a year now. Dec 31 05:57:46 But many have 2 year warranty Dec 31 05:57:47 depends Dec 31 05:58:03 yes Dec 31 06:01:24 Screw that. I'm not waiting for months; plus, I've OC'd it. And, it's my own fault that it got cracked Dec 31 06:01:40 why? Dec 31 06:01:56 screen black isn't your fault usually Dec 31 06:02:28 the FPC cable is known to fail Dec 31 06:02:34 Yesterday: http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/images/IMGP2669-small.jpeg Dec 31 06:02:45 causing display failure Dec 31 06:02:50 Two weeks ago when it happened: http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/images/IMGP2668.JPG Dec 31 06:03:37 That's an LCD failure, not a FPC I think Dec 31 06:03:43 this looks like broken FPC Dec 31 06:03:51 hehe Dec 31 06:03:53 There's a visible crack in the LCD Dec 31 06:03:58 ooh Dec 31 06:04:02 yeah - clearly a crack Dec 31 06:04:07 so then it's clearly your fault Dec 31 06:04:26 I'm still not sure how it happened, considering the digitizer is undamaged Dec 31 06:04:38 yeah I missed that Dec 31 06:05:07 scary Dec 31 06:05:30 you got a replacement LCD? Dec 31 06:05:49 Yup; $50 or so off ebay all told Dec 31 06:05:58 yep Dec 31 06:06:09 I ordered it last night; should be here within ten days Dec 31 06:06:17 that's quite a nice pricetag, here they are like 80€ Dec 31 06:06:20 iirc Dec 31 06:06:54 Direct from hong kong Dec 31 06:06:59 :-D Dec 31 06:08:09 While I'm at it, I might as well order a cap to replace the bad battery... Dec 31 06:08:10 take care of the FPC anyway, when you disassemble it Dec 31 06:08:16 fpc? Dec 31 06:08:17 those are flimsy Dec 31 06:08:23 Oh, the cable Dec 31 06:08:28 flat plastic connector/cable Dec 31 06:08:55 Yea, I just took it apart. It looks in fine shape, but yea, I'll be careful Dec 31 06:09:34 (Note to everyone: set of mini-torx bits === useful!) Dec 31 06:09:45 it's usually the B2B connector end that breaks. Too many vias there Dec 31 06:10:21 the apperture where the FPC enters the screen compartment is another critical point Dec 31 06:10:56 traces may break if you pull and bend the cable over the metal frame there Dec 31 06:11:52 Ah Dec 31 06:14:50 So, as far as the battery goes, that cap from digikey is the way to go? Dec 31 06:16:00 Hey guys, just bought an n900 off of ebay and as much as I'm loving it I've been having one very annoying problem. I only get sound in one ear. I've tried using different headphones with no luck. And I got this before and after a flash. Dec 31 06:16:16 Any ideas what would cause this? Dec 31 06:16:32 dirt in the headphone socket? Dec 31 06:16:45 Either the headphone port is broken/dirty, or one of the amplifier channels died Dec 31 06:17:05 Well, it seems plenty clean. Dec 31 06:17:32 So what would it mean if one of the amplifier channels died? Dec 31 06:17:35 Try wiggling the headphone. Does it move at all? Dec 31 06:17:47 Not substantially. Dec 31 06:18:03 Try playing audio and wiggling it slightly Dec 31 06:18:20 Doing that now Dec 31 06:18:22 does sound come out of both speakers? Dec 31 06:18:39 I can't tell. Dec 31 06:19:07 nice nickname Dec 31 06:19:28 Yes, it seems to be coming out of both speakers. Dec 31 06:19:32 Try lowering the volume almost all the way, then listen to each speaker in turn Dec 31 06:19:42 (just did that, thanks :) ) Dec 31 06:19:46 DocScrutinizer: is this a cool algorithm or is this a cool algorithm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM3WWurYmLw Dec 31 06:20:37 So would that rule out the amplifier issue and mean that it's a problem with the jack? Dec 31 06:20:48 thefool: The jack is mounted to the board with clips. Dec 31 06:20:52 DocScrutinizer: I'm gonna order that capacitor now.. Dec 31 06:21:14 thefool: these can get dirty, or bent, and the socket can be damaged by foreign objects inside it Dec 31 06:21:25 In principle, you can swap out the socket very simply Dec 31 06:21:58 Ok, I can't see a simple way to even get to it. Dec 31 06:22:01 I don't have links to suppliers of socket though Dec 31 06:22:06 you unscrew the case Dec 31 06:22:28 Ok Dec 31 06:22:53 RobbieThe1st: yep, go ahead. It looks fine Dec 31 06:23:33 Alright, that shouldn't be too horrible. Dec 31 06:23:51 As long as the sockets connections to the board are not ridiculously small. Dec 31 06:23:57 Thanks. Dec 31 06:24:08 Thefool, wait. Let me give you the official disassembly guide Dec 31 06:24:12 pupnik: NICE Dec 31 06:24:40 http://maemo.jacekowski.org/docs/ Dec 31 06:24:40 :) Dec 31 06:24:42 http://thehandheldblog.com/2009/11/30/download-the-n900-service-manual-see-the-n900-get-disassembled/ Dec 31 06:25:03 i spent about a few weeks making crazy effects Dec 31 06:25:17 then i got sad because i can't optimize anything worth hsit Dec 31 06:25:27 oO Dec 31 06:25:29 L12 Dec 31 06:25:31 thefool: Having disassembled mine for the first time not an hour ago, let me tell you that you should be -very- careful. There is no need for much force; once the screws are out a slight wiggling will take it apart Dec 31 06:25:32 thefool: they ARE ridiculously small Dec 31 06:26:04 Bugger Dec 31 06:26:10 I have to say, though - the n900's well designed. Dec 31 06:26:30 Make sure you've got a ph00 screwdriver(tiny philips) Dec 31 06:26:36 That's because the fins did it :) Dec 31 06:27:16 Oh, and you need a small torx driver - a T06. This you'll probably have to buy Dec 31 06:27:17 Yeah, looks like some of them need the star drivers too. Dec 31 06:27:33 Yeah, no worries, I have a set of them. Dec 31 06:27:37 Ah, good Dec 31 06:27:59 If you are -that- prepared, you won't have any trouble Dec 31 06:28:06 So what are the chances that this is something I can easily fix? Dec 31 06:28:24 I don't know; this is the first I've heard of it happening. Dec 31 06:28:36 Bummer Dec 31 06:28:43 thefool: are you sure you want to do this? Isn't N900 covered by warranty anymore? Dec 31 06:28:46 check L34 manual Dec 31 06:29:00 Not sure, just bought it off ebay and got it in the mail today. Dec 31 06:29:29 I'm not even sure how to check to see if it is covered. Dec 31 06:29:49 so you should check with Nokia webpage if it's covered by warranty Dec 31 06:30:04 You'll need the IMEI number, under the battery Dec 31 06:30:12 there's a non-marginal chance you break it completely by disassembling it Dec 31 06:30:21 Ok, will google around for the right area then. Thanks. Have the IMEI handy even thanks to a recent flash. Dec 31 06:32:36 ask comawhite Dec 31 06:32:39 Your device, serial number 356938030854526, appears to be within the initial warranty period. This warranty verification covers the following 10 days. If you send your device in for repair after 10 days, please include a copy of the proof of purchase with your device to confirm that your unit is within the warranty period. Dec 31 06:32:45 he did it some hours ago Dec 31 06:32:57 Dang, good timing, only 10 days left...? Or am I reading this wrong. Dec 31 06:33:42 thefool: on L3_4 manual there is whole section on audio troubleshooting Dec 31 06:33:49 [2010-12-31 03:52:03] Your device, serial number <15 digits>, appears to be within the initial warranty period. This warranty verification covers the following 10 days. If you send your device in for repair after 10 days, please include a copy of the proof of purchase with your device to confirm that your unit is within the warranty period. Dec 31 06:33:51 DocScrutinizer, eh? Dec 31 06:34:06 DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's strange Dec 31 06:34:19 DocScrutinizer: have you tried it with your serial number? Dec 31 06:34:33 no, not yet :-D Dec 31 06:35:10 jacekowski, No idea what that manual is and googling for it isn't coming up with anything meaningful yet. Dec 31 06:35:36 thefool: http://maemo.jacekowski.org/docs/ Dec 31 06:35:39 thefool: all in there Dec 31 06:36:08 all most important parts Dec 31 06:36:44 the video also is kinda helpful, though they are severely cheating Dec 31 06:37:08 anyway, use your warranty, thefool ! Dec 31 06:37:28 Yeah, I think I will, I just don't want to part with the stinking phone already lol Dec 31 06:37:43 if you go to nokia care shop Dec 31 06:37:48 they may replace it while you waith Dec 31 06:37:51 wait* Dec 31 06:38:04 yep Dec 31 06:38:13 (I've never so much as heard of one of those, where do you live?) Dec 31 06:38:24 UK Dec 31 06:38:40 replacement of AV connector is probably the easiest fix after replacement of broken back cover :-) Dec 31 06:38:44 they have nokia care shops in US Dec 31 06:40:02 * DocScrutinizer wishes replacing USB connector would be similarly easy Dec 31 06:40:33 and I actually don't understand why it isn't Dec 31 06:41:09 because usb sucks Dec 31 06:41:10 I mean USB has 5 pins (+ shield). AV has at least 5 connectors Dec 31 06:41:15 and firewire is a lot better Dec 31 06:41:54 s/connectors/pins Dec 31 06:42:11 Heck, if they'd thought about it, they would have used usb-mini instead of micro Dec 31 06:42:24 nope Dec 31 06:42:27 mini's so much more robust, and it'd fit in the space Dec 31 06:42:35 nope Dec 31 06:42:38 :-) Dec 31 06:42:51 micro is more durable than mini Dec 31 06:43:01 10000 vs 5000 rounds Dec 31 06:44:02 Theoretically... in reality, I've had two usb-micro cables become flaky, and -how- many people have had usb-micro ports come out Dec 31 06:44:40 that's not because of that Dec 31 06:44:48 it's because of technology Dec 31 06:44:56 No, it's because of the (flimsy) mounting internally Dec 31 06:44:59 all you have is very thin tracks made from copper Dec 31 06:45:06 that's two unrelated problems, and the 10000 are for receptacle. It's designed so plug on able wears out, not the hard to replace receptacle Dec 31 06:45:08 Ouch, I live in Florida, the nearest repair center is in Alabama. Dec 31 06:45:09 glued to FR4 Dec 31 06:45:14 Mailing it in I guess. Dec 31 06:45:53 thefool: hmm, well here in civilised parts of the world we have nokia care store probably within less than 100 miles everywhere Dec 31 06:46:10 and most people probably live closer than 40 miles from one Dec 31 06:46:36 Nokia's standing in USA is different Dec 31 06:46:40 Thing is, I've got several (cheap) usb-mini cables. None of them failed or got flaky. I've got two usb-mini cables here that -look- ok, but are incredibly flaky, only working if they are pushed in just right. Dec 31 06:46:46 Yeah well, eventually I'll have to move to a more civilized country. Dec 31 06:46:54 Forgive me for being biased, but... Dec 31 06:47:30 it's overal usb design Dec 31 06:47:32 that's crap Dec 31 06:47:49 True enough. Dec 31 06:47:49 because you have small bump on almost flat piece of metal Dec 31 06:47:58 that is suppose to connect devices Dec 31 06:48:00 well, whatever your feelings are regarding mini vs micro - mini is deprecated and will vanish Dec 31 06:48:05 because it's not even proper spring loaded Dec 31 06:48:14 it wears of too fast Dec 31 06:48:38 my wireless mouse reciever is working in only one port of my laptop Dec 31 06:48:44 because other ports are worn Dec 31 06:48:58 and because they use plain pcb with uncovered tracks as connector Dec 31 06:49:03 so it's completly flat Dec 31 06:49:14 and any wear on laptop side will make it not connect Dec 31 06:49:25 ouch Dec 31 06:49:39 usb B is a lot better Dec 31 06:49:43 but it's big Dec 31 06:49:57 iphone dock connector is nice Dec 31 06:50:02 it has feature of locking in place Dec 31 06:50:21 all with nice spring sort of design Dec 31 06:50:32 well, doen't help. You'll have to live with micro-USB Dec 31 06:51:26 and other thing is Dec 31 06:51:34 Well, actually I don't. If it gets to be too much of a pain, I'll just get a mini-ab port off ebay, replace it, and enlarge the hole in the case. Problem solved. Dec 31 06:51:35 Also while I have an audience is there an easy way I'm overlooking to return to the home screens? Dec 31 06:51:39 what is current carrying capacity of that connection Dec 31 06:52:11 because you have thin contacts Dec 31 06:52:19 that are going to be dirty ussualy Dec 31 06:52:49 IIRC 1A Dec 31 06:53:02 when new Dec 31 06:53:13 thefool: press ctrl-bs, hit to the empty area Dec 31 06:53:16 what is real current you can pass trough it is a question Dec 31 06:53:16 thefool: camkeyd - or something Dec 31 06:57:14 Thanks Dec 31 06:58:57 camkeyd is nice Dec 31 07:01:14 Ok, so since I just spent 3 hours installing apps what is the best way to backup everything before sending this in to nokia being that I don't have an micro sd card? Dec 31 07:03:08 thefool: i think you can use the pc suite for that (connect via usb) Dec 31 07:04:21 Anything for linux? Dec 31 07:04:47 thefool: backupmenu Dec 31 07:04:47 i never backed-up installed apps before Dec 31 07:04:54 Well, that's good enough I guess, I'll just boot up a vm. Thanks. Dec 31 07:05:19 it's in the devel repo. Complete system image, and it's os-independant(n900-centric) Dec 31 07:06:45 oooh Dec 31 07:06:48 Nice Dec 31 07:07:13 So Nokia's return policy stinks. I have to pay shipping. Dec 31 07:09:19 thefool: that's normal Dec 31 07:09:45 any time I've known of that you need to return to the manufacturer that is Dec 31 07:10:41 Really? With my blackberry they shipped me a new one with a return label just like dell. Dec 31 07:11:15 thefool: that's for a replacement, but you're looking for a repair, aren't you? Dec 31 07:11:19 perhaps I'm wrong Dec 31 07:11:37 good morning maemo Dec 31 07:11:53 Hmm, good point. Dec 31 07:12:12 my n900 gone to nokia repair service because wasn't charging anymore Dec 31 07:12:31 night Dec 31 07:12:38 they returned it back to me yesterday with a board change Dec 31 07:13:08 but unfortunately they didn't notice that keyboard wasn't the spanish variant Dec 31 07:13:39 but now it seems to react as an spanish keyboard instead of english one Dec 31 07:13:43 AD-N770, lol Dec 31 07:13:53 for example . is ñ Dec 31 07:14:08 do you know if I can change it myself ? Dec 31 07:14:21 I will spank Nokia. Dec 31 07:14:31 I've reflashed just now PR1.3 but didn't helped Dec 31 07:14:40 try downoading ukeyboard Dec 31 07:14:42 http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard perhaps? Dec 31 07:16:41 how about selecting spanish keyboard layout in settings? Dec 31 07:17:51 or maybe the english keyboard :-) Dec 31 07:18:29 in settings-textinput Dec 31 07:19:21 DocScrutinizer: good that worked Dec 31 07:19:22 thanks Dec 31 07:19:33 actually it's called "english, nederlands" Dec 31 07:19:40 I've seen Dec 31 07:20:45 what's the current state of art to run meego? Dec 31 07:21:18 I think I've read something on dual boot maemo/meego somewhere Dec 31 07:21:36 there's any recipe in the wiki to setup this? Dec 31 07:25:25 talk.maemo.org has stuff Dec 31 07:25:40 nice to see you again AD-N770 Dec 31 07:26:20 hi pupnik Dec 31 07:26:50 I'm not really back in the scene, just wanted to play a little during next holidays days Dec 31 07:27:17 my 2 daughters keep me really busy :) Dec 31 07:28:58 i bet Dec 31 07:29:02 hey 2? congrats Dec 31 07:31:01 thanks, Bruna is now 2y9m and Berta is 9m older Dec 31 07:31:05 AD-N770: so you picked up a n900 now? Dec 31 07:31:38 meego won't run on the 770 :) Dec 31 07:31:39 I've got one during Barcelona's long weekend Dec 31 07:31:48 ah k Dec 31 07:32:21 but I couldn't play a lot with it yet Dec 31 07:32:41 until it failed charging Dec 31 07:33:17 why won't meego run on the 770? Dec 31 07:33:51 probably because is arm7 Dec 31 07:34:02 s/arm7/arm5 Dec 31 07:34:17 and meego images are built for arm7 Dec 31 07:34:47 and "640KB should be enough for anyone" Dec 31 07:35:45 :P Dec 31 07:36:09 I'm still happy with my n810 Dec 31 07:36:31 i love the speakers on n810 Dec 31 07:37:06 keyboard and dpad, not so much Dec 31 07:37:07 from my point of view is the best device in the family Dec 31 07:37:23 but you should be able to rebuild for ARMv5 Dec 31 07:38:51 ds3: maybe, I haven't tried to build meego stack myself but I've the feeling that will take a long long time Dec 31 07:39:05 hmm Dec 31 07:39:20 in my hacking list is attempt to make meego work on a joggler Dec 31 07:39:28 joggler? Dec 31 07:39:53 i think someone did this, no? Dec 31 07:40:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O2_Joggler Dec 31 07:40:47 I've got one for 50pounds at uk Dec 31 07:41:56 yes, I've chatted with one guy that made meego work on the joggler Dec 31 07:43:08 how can stream this on N900 mms://66.172.3.142/3 Dec 31 07:43:11 ? Dec 31 07:43:16 I've currently running ubuntu (UNR) but is not very stable and I've the feeling that cooling is not good enough on this particular unit Dec 31 07:43:26 they seem to run hot Dec 31 07:44:01 lolloo: stream or consume the stream in the device? Dec 31 07:44:14 what does N900 do? it seems it doesnt do anything Dec 31 07:44:21 i cant run this Dec 31 07:44:22 mms://66.172.3.142/3 Dec 31 07:44:31 its live stream Dec 31 07:45:15 lollo you can try gst-launch-0.10 -v playbin2 uri=mms://66.172.3.142/3 in a terminal Dec 31 07:45:35 mplayer plays it too Dec 31 07:45:52 mplayer doesnt play it Dec 31 07:45:55 that's cool looking text Dec 31 07:45:57 it just stops Dec 31 07:46:06 oh it does on my desktop Dec 31 07:46:13 yeah Dec 31 07:46:45 he sounds like he's explaining something Dec 31 07:46:52 gst-launch not found Dec 31 07:46:57 yes he is Dec 31 07:47:06 he si political dude Dec 31 07:47:08 is* Dec 31 07:47:19 hehe Dec 31 07:47:31 oh there's a gstreamer utilities package Dec 31 07:47:55 really? you think it will work? Dec 31 07:48:03 gst-launch not found Dec 31 07:48:20 yes you need to install something for gst-launch iirc Dec 31 07:48:23 you need gstreamer0.10-tools or something like this Dec 31 07:48:38 it will install the gstreamer tool set Dec 31 07:48:49 alright, I will google it. or is it in repo? Dec 31 07:49:00 should be in the repo Dec 31 07:49:08 awesome Dec 31 07:49:13 will check it now Dec 31 07:49:22 at least was like this in the past Dec 31 07:49:36 are you still watching pupnik ? Dec 31 07:49:37 hehe Dec 31 07:50:01 no i can't understand it Dec 31 07:50:14 thats kind of rebel movement Dec 31 07:50:33 against conservative gvnmnts Dec 31 07:50:51 my gvmnt. Dec 31 07:51:39 found gst-zbar Dec 31 07:51:43 is it right? Dec 31 07:52:10 no doesnt sound right Dec 31 07:53:04 lolloo: no, this is for code bars recognition I think Dec 31 07:53:24 yeah, can't find gst tools. Dec 31 07:53:53 maybe you have to enable maemo-extras or something like that Dec 31 07:54:16 yeah ofcourse. Dec 31 07:54:33 or the repo corresponding to the sdk Dec 31 07:54:57 yeah maybe. Dec 31 07:57:56 apt-get install gstreamer-tools Dec 31 07:58:40 ok I ran the command. Dec 31 07:58:44 than what? Dec 31 07:58:56 is it working? Dec 31 07:59:01 error messages? Dec 31 07:59:30 Could not receive message. (System error: Connection refused) Dec 31 07:59:43 ERROR: pipeline doesn't want to preroll. Dec 31 08:00:34 then, probably there's an issue with the nokiammssrc element Dec 31 08:00:56 omg! Dec 31 08:01:50 lolloo are you running the server? Dec 31 08:02:02 AD-N770, no. Dec 31 08:02:20 it's working fine on VLC desktop pc. Dec 31 08:02:39 also on my desktop with gstreamer Dec 31 08:02:42 maybe MohammadAG can include mms support in his new client Dec 31 08:03:08 but I'm using the fluendo gstreamer elements Dec 31 08:03:33 pupnik, what client ? Dec 31 08:03:40 Moo all Dec 31 08:03:46 Moo Dec 31 08:03:46 hiya Dec 31 08:03:51 hehe Dec 31 08:04:09 he's redoing the media player Dec 31 08:04:35 alright. can some give tip about it when he is online? Dec 31 08:04:46 or anyone sees him. Dec 31 08:04:53 thanks. Dec 31 08:04:56 sure Dec 31 08:05:03 awesome. Dec 31 08:29:24 * tzafrir_laptop switched back from N900 to backup phone after the N900 didn't finish an emergency charge that was for the most part of a 17 hours flight Dec 31 08:29:54 If this is by design, this is a design I can't live with Dec 31 08:30:21 I've had a brick for a phone for a large part of my trip Dec 31 08:38:00 yo Dec 31 08:38:57 can anyone tell me where the device manager on my n900 is? I want to update the firmware... Dec 31 08:39:35 app manager Dec 31 08:39:52 but if you want the very latest version of the firmware, you'll have to flash it yourself manually Dec 31 08:41:42 thats the thing, I dont know what version of the firmmware i have Dec 31 08:41:53 i enter *#0000# and get Dec 31 08:42:27 3.2010.02-8.203.1 Dec 31 08:42:36 mmm Dec 31 08:42:42 is this old guys? Dec 31 08:42:50 it looks like PR1 Dec 31 08:42:55 yes that's old, that's PR1.1 Dec 31 08:43:07 possibly, this phone has been moth balled Dec 31 08:43:15 hehe Dec 31 08:43:25 PR 1.3 is out Dec 31 08:43:33 flashing is easy Dec 31 08:43:40 is there a wiki page that will tell me how to update to the latest+graetest? Dec 31 08:43:44 yep Dec 31 08:43:51 google is your friend Dec 31 08:44:03 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#N900_2 Dec 31 08:44:14 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#N900_2 Dec 31 08:44:17 oops Dec 31 08:44:19 hehe Dec 31 08:44:28 nice find all of you. Dec 31 08:44:41 happy new year. Dec 31 08:44:53 will nokia software updater wor? Dec 31 08:45:51 just got my n900 like 15 minutes ago Dec 31 08:45:59 i believe it works with the very latest version, although i've not tried it myself Dec 31 08:46:08 i haven't used my N900 for about 5 months Dec 31 08:46:21 wow what r u using now? Dec 31 08:46:22 i wish i had never bought it Dec 31 08:46:26 hehe Dec 31 08:46:29 Google Nexus S Dec 31 08:46:39 why? Dec 31 08:46:40 i bought the N900 when it was brand new Dec 31 08:46:45 am using it now and chatting with you on xchat. Dec 31 08:46:46 because it's much better Dec 31 08:47:07 can you recompile the kernel? Dec 31 08:47:09 how G Nexus? Dec 31 08:47:15 is it good? Dec 31 08:47:40 does it have iso9660 support? Dec 31 08:47:44 what version of Android is it using? Dec 31 08:47:54 2.3.1 Dec 31 08:48:04 wow Gingerbread? Dec 31 08:48:19 yes Dec 31 08:48:24 wow awesome. Dec 31 08:48:28 stock gingerbread Dec 31 08:48:36 me thinking of one. Dec 31 08:48:51 congrats man. Dec 31 08:48:53 oops 'scuse me chaps Dec 31 08:50:01 yeah, i was using a Google Nexus One before that Dec 31 08:50:10 hence why i haven't touched the N900 for 5 months Dec 31 08:50:56 instead of buying the N900 in Decmber 2009 i should've waited for the Nexus One a couple of months later Dec 31 08:50:56 Hm... I'll give you $20 for it! <_< >_> :P Dec 31 08:51:22 viva le difference Dec 31 08:51:26 lol for the N900? haha Dec 31 08:51:28 hehe Dec 31 08:51:37 lol Dec 31 08:51:47 I wish. Dec 31 08:51:56 android is for people who like to be the catcher in prison rape Dec 31 08:52:02 just like microsoft users Dec 31 08:52:09 :) Dec 31 08:52:13 pupnik: err, tone please Dec 31 08:52:13 true Dec 31 08:52:16 nah, android is iOS for poor people Dec 31 08:52:29 hehe Dec 31 08:52:34 and hipsters Dec 31 08:52:43 don't forget the hipsters Dec 31 08:52:49 haha Dec 31 08:52:55 Android is for people who want an email client that works fast Dec 31 08:53:02 N900 is for guys who get high. Dec 31 08:53:06 unlike the piece of shit in Maemo5 Dec 31 08:53:16 hehe Dec 31 08:53:17 * trx high Dec 31 08:53:18 which slows to a crawl after a week of use Dec 31 08:53:27 trx, pass it Dec 31 08:53:32 Maemo's for the nerds who want a nice computer in a tiny package Dec 31 08:53:34 Like me Dec 31 08:53:52 i smoked 7 hours ago Dec 31 08:53:59 omg I envy you. Dec 31 08:54:03 passed out, hit my head on something :/ Dec 31 08:54:06 Jaffa: have you tried android yet? Dec 31 08:54:07 hehehe Dec 31 08:54:12 i'm still keeping hold of the N900 because it serves a purpose as a standalone Skype and SIP phone, but at a cost of £500, it was an expensive purchase that could've been avoided Dec 31 08:54:29 opened op a peace of skin above my eye :" Dec 31 08:54:29 Ouch. I only paid $300US for mine... Dec 31 08:54:30 it is certainly not something i can use as an everyday phone anymore Dec 31 08:54:40 trx, ouch. Dec 31 08:54:45 bad high. Dec 31 08:54:47 yeah :/ Dec 31 08:54:49 yeah i bought it when it was first released, and it was £500 upon release in December 2009 Dec 31 08:54:54 why cant you use it as a phone? Dec 31 08:55:08 i'd use pine Dec 31 08:55:10 guys i'll be back, brb for 30 min. Dec 31 08:55:21 what poine, the mail client? Dec 31 08:55:33 1. very poor functionality as a phone 2. email client is a piece of shit 3. graphics tearing on the screen when used in portrait mode (WTF?!!) Dec 31 08:55:36 yes THAT pine! Dec 31 08:55:58 That's what webmail's for Dec 31 08:56:13 I am a little worried about the mail client Dec 31 08:56:34 was hoping there would be reasonable mail solution Dec 31 08:56:34 RobbieThe1st, i need push email on my phone so that is a useless 'solution' Dec 31 08:57:34 rob, is your name robbie the 1st or a sublty play on robbie the thiest? Dec 31 08:57:52 The first; I got the nickname when I had a 12-char limit Dec 31 08:58:01 ^subtle? Dec 31 08:58:24 But you aren't the first to have seen that alternate interpretation Dec 31 08:59:39 are you a thiest? Dec 31 08:59:44 RobbieThe1st: < RobbieThe1st> Maemo's for the nerds who want a nice computer in a tiny package Dec 31 08:59:48 good summary Dec 31 09:00:16 Thanks Dec 31 09:00:58 that is EXACTLY what i want! shareware limerix in my pocket! Dec 31 09:01:53 I have to say... reduce transition time, OC it(and reduce polling time to 100ms)... it feels as responsive as a full on laptop Dec 31 09:02:32 the one thing i can praise the N900 on is the fact that the hardware is definitely decent, and if it were able to use USB OTG from factory (without mods) i would highly consider getting rid of my netbook Dec 31 09:02:58 what is OTG? Dec 31 09:03:01 people who expected best-of-class apps from nokia in every category were bound to be disappointed Dec 31 09:04:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_on_the_go Dec 31 09:04:52 nokia does good-ish hardware Dec 31 09:05:02 w00t, FW v20! Dec 31 09:05:10 why don't we have full specs of everything yet? :( Dec 31 09:05:16 does that mean I now have PR1.3? Dec 31 09:06:18 and where is the package manager? Dec 31 09:07:22 anyone? Dec 31 09:07:31 App Manager Dec 31 09:08:52 is this just a frontend for dpkg? Dec 31 09:09:06 it is the package manager on Maemo Dec 31 09:10:15 more like an frontend for apt Dec 31 09:19:52 pupnik: Yes, not sure about it yet. Thought about having a longer go with NITDroid Dec 31 09:22:23 does nitdroid let you use the phone as a um...phone? Dec 31 09:22:29 nope Dec 31 09:22:34 phone isn't working Dec 31 09:22:49 is there no OS driver for the GSM chip? Dec 31 09:23:07 i don't know, all i know is that using it as a phone is not possible Dec 31 09:23:12 not at the moment anyways Dec 31 09:23:21 lame Dec 31 09:24:07 give it time and maybe it'll be working Dec 31 09:25:00 but it's pretty cool that it even works on there at all Dec 31 09:25:48 omg apt-get on my phone, this is the most balla shizle i have seen Dec 31 09:26:40 sudo apt-get install nano Dec 31 09:26:49 f*** Dec 31 09:26:54 I WANT VIM Dec 31 09:27:05 lol Dec 31 09:27:15 and nethack Dec 31 09:27:29 you can definitely get that for it, i've seen it in the repos Dec 31 09:27:46 and mplaya@ Dec 31 09:28:27 ok ap manager sucks balls Dec 31 09:28:41 can i use aptitude?? Dec 31 09:29:20 can I get a full on zsh shell instead of this busybox horses? Dec 31 09:30:53 not sure about zsh, maybe Dec 31 09:30:55 vim____: try fapman Dec 31 09:30:57 i know you can get full on bash Dec 31 09:32:19 tiny c compiler!! This is soo badass i think i am gonna jiz a little Dec 31 09:33:41 not on the N900 Dec 31 09:33:49 the keys will go flush with the casing Dec 31 09:36:37 I am so excited I am going to eat some fish Dec 31 09:36:49 :) Dec 31 09:39:58 i think meego is the only other "functioning" os for the n900 with telephony support Dec 31 09:41:19 oscillik, how has your experience been with sip on N900? Dec 31 09:41:49 sip has been pretty alright actually. i've not used it to make outgoing calls (because i can't afford putting credit on it) but incoming is fine, even over 3G Dec 31 09:42:00 EDGE is a bit dodgy though Dec 31 09:42:37 oscillik, have you tried it on wifi? Dec 31 09:42:55 i've used sip for outgoing on wifi, works well in my experience Dec 31 09:43:00 yeah, it's flaweless on wifi Dec 31 09:43:34 i'm using it essentially as a landline at the moment, my SIP provider gives me an 0151 number and i use the N900 hooked up by WiFi for Skype and SIP Dec 31 09:43:34 hmm, my N900 stinks in wifi. Sips calls are quite choppy Dec 31 09:44:12 probably your router is playing a part in that, or other structural or frequency interference Dec 31 09:44:13 oscillik, ieatlint, any idea whether you are using asterisk or freeswitch? Dec 31 09:44:28 trumee, i'm just using sipgate.co.uk Dec 31 09:44:36 sip upstream... dunno what they're running it over Dec 31 09:45:10 oscillik, ieatlint, i am running my own * server and N900 is rubbish with that. Dec 31 09:45:13 it's all about the green on black xterm, yeah bitches Dec 31 09:45:16 i only use it when i need to make a call where there's no phone service but i have wifi Dec 31 09:45:27 has worked well for my purposes Dec 31 09:45:58 oscillik, i have incoming with voiptalk.org but dont use it very much. Dec 31 09:46:30 ieatlint, what service provider are you with? Dec 31 09:46:56 a friend of mine is using his own asterisk server for his Nexus One SIP calls, and he's been having good results i think Dec 31 09:46:59 a local dsl company that also offers sip-based phone service Dec 31 09:47:43 oscillik, android based devices do better sip because some devs of freeswitch use droid themselves Dec 31 09:48:56 oscillik, however N900 doesnt work with Freeswitch out of the box (hint. try calling to the voicemail) Dec 31 09:50:02 what's freeswitch/ Dec 31 09:50:08 another SIP provider? Dec 31 09:50:22 oscillik, no, another sip software. Dec 31 09:50:28 a fork of asterisk I believe? Dec 31 09:50:29 ahh Dec 31 09:51:10 This is sample call to voicemail with Freeswitch, http://174.132.148.146/ivr.wav Dec 31 09:52:18 The digit prompts are all lost by N900. Dec 31 09:52:48 lol Dec 31 09:53:09 * oscillik does like the pulseaudio call recording feature Dec 31 09:53:56 oscillik, you have a nexus one? Dec 31 09:54:31 i had a Nexus One Dec 31 09:54:32 * trumee hates pulseaudio. Dec 31 09:54:34 i now have Nexus S Dec 31 09:55:06 oscillik, does it have a sip client? Dec 31 09:55:34 yes, Android 2.3 Gingerbread comes with SIP functionality built into the OS Dec 31 09:56:28 i will probably move over to android in the future for good sip support. Dec 31 09:56:55 after playing with my gf's nexus s, i have to say that nokia better woo me in the near future, because as much as i love huge aspects of maemo (that will be present in meego), there are just too many things that are lacking Dec 31 09:57:04 i had an ADP1 (Android Dev Phone 1 - the developer version of the T-Mobile G1) and that got me hooked on Android Dec 31 09:57:30 SIP comes in most e-series symbian devvices... Dec 31 09:57:31 i'm very happy with my Nexus S so far Dec 31 09:57:40 lol e-series symbian Dec 31 09:57:49 * Termana stabs himself because of Android Dec 31 09:58:00 vim____, yes, sip works perfect on my Nokia N95 Dec 31 09:58:01 yeah, i had a couple adp1s... they were decent things Dec 31 09:58:05 running S60 3rd Edition Dec 31 09:58:17 connectbot is still the best mobile ssh interface i have seen by far Dec 31 09:58:27 worked *perfectly* with irssi Dec 31 09:59:38 does android have openvpn/pptp client? Dec 31 09:59:39 morning Dec 31 09:59:41 right, how do I OC this mutha? Dec 31 09:59:42 still, when i switched to the n900 from android, the only things i really missed were google maps and the google sync Dec 31 09:59:56 Termana, don't stab yourself because of Android, stab yourself because Nokia dropped support for a phone before they even shipped it Dec 31 10:00:01 ;) Dec 31 10:00:15 oh and, THE OMPLETELY UNRESTRICTED TOOLCHAIN Dec 31 10:00:26 any OpenGL (ES) gurus about? Dec 31 10:00:51 now i look at froyo (or later) and see reliable mobile hotspot, awesome google voice support, an even better google maps (because holy shit the new release is AWESOME), and a lot of interesting 3rd party apps Dec 31 10:01:08 ieatlint, i missed an email client that worked, google maps, and no graphics tearing in portrait Dec 31 10:01:16 yeah, but can i play nethack? Dec 31 10:01:29 like a fucking heart rate monitor that uses the camera... totally a gimmick app, but still pretty cool Dec 31 10:01:32 ieatlint, can it do offline turn by turn? Dec 31 10:01:42 yes it can Dec 31 10:01:45 trumee: yes Dec 31 10:01:58 nice. Dec 31 10:02:22 latest google maps release in december added it, and switched it all to vector-based maps for offline caching and offline route recalculation Dec 31 10:02:28 * trumee loves everything about N900 except rubbish SIP support Dec 31 10:02:42 ieatlint, actually google navigation had it before december Dec 31 10:02:52 it's just that google maps got offline capability too in december Dec 31 10:03:07 ok Dec 31 10:03:28 * trumee and lack of SYNCML support Dec 31 10:03:35 i still wouldn't do the nexus s myself... i need the hardware keyboard, but the g2 looks decent, and has a full 768mb of ram... Dec 31 10:04:13 see, that's the reason i went for the N900 back in Decmber 09 Dec 31 10:04:16 because of the keyboard Dec 31 10:04:37 but after using the Nexus One (and now the even better keyboard on the Nexus S), i'm not too bothered by lack of physical keyboard Dec 31 10:05:04 i am... i tried using a nokia n8 for a couple weeks... and ugh Dec 31 10:05:11 hmm, don't think I could put up with losing the screen space really Dec 31 10:05:14 oscillik, oh really. i always thought software keyboards dont work well. Dec 31 10:05:20 lol that's because nokia touchscreen keyboards are wank Dec 31 10:05:24 forget terminal, just typing was annoying, and that was with swype added on even Dec 31 10:06:02 i've used the current android keyboard... it was less impressive than swype in my opinion Dec 31 10:06:14 but swype is available for android, heh Dec 31 10:06:16 ieatlint, the gingerbread keyboard? Dec 31 10:06:21 yeah Dec 31 10:07:21 back in early december i played with a friend's nexus s, and my gf got one last week... not impressed, but as i'm generally not impressed by on-screen keyboards, that's not the biggest insult Dec 31 10:08:14 tactile feedback (including touch-typing), screen real estate, and ability to do non-dictionary words and special symbols is paramount to usability for me Dec 31 10:08:24 and an on-screen keyboard can't really compete Dec 31 10:10:52 well of course it's personal preference Dec 31 10:11:05 it's why i like Phil Collins and Huey Lewis And The News Dec 31 10:11:07 ;) Dec 31 10:12:06 :P Dec 31 10:12:45 * oscillik has to return some videotapes Dec 31 10:13:18 with the n9 announcement still likely many months away... we'll see if the n900 can maintain my interest long enough :( Dec 31 10:13:28 Morning Dec 31 10:13:51 n9 annoucement ? Dec 31 10:14:08 yeah, when nokia finally decides to make shit official Dec 31 10:14:39 if i had to guess, at the next meego conference, heh Dec 31 10:14:59 lol i gotta say, after the debacle over the N900 and the prompt announcement 5 months after release that they were gonna drop Maemo for Meego, i'm never buying a Nokia device again Dec 31 10:15:47 ieatlint, i think the next meego conf will be were nokia announce their n9 Dec 31 10:15:56 s/were/where Dec 31 10:16:00 lol i think the next meego conference they will delay again Dec 31 10:16:05 but ... do not expect too much of meego :) Dec 31 10:16:26 is there an alternative terminal emulator? Dec 31 10:16:26 i have a decent idea what meego will be :P Dec 31 10:16:32 i'm more interested in the hardware refresh Dec 31 10:16:50 you are lucky ... as to be honest i didn't know what meego will be Dec 31 10:17:00 something locked by manufacturer Dec 31 10:17:04 unfortunately there will never be keyboard like e90 anymore. even n810 or better is unlikely to happen. Dec 31 10:17:07 or something open Dec 31 10:17:10 don't know Dec 31 10:17:17 i don't know how far it will go, but i have an idea of what it will be as released Dec 31 10:17:57 I ll like a refresh of a n810 with more powerfull cpu + more battery Dec 31 10:17:57 :) Dec 31 10:18:09 + more ram :P Dec 31 10:18:16 yep + more ram Dec 31 10:18:16 :) Dec 31 10:18:24 n900 as too few ram too Dec 31 10:18:24 i'd like n900 in n810 form factor Dec 31 10:18:34 same ... but with more ram Dec 31 10:18:34 :) Dec 31 10:18:35 (and with more ram) Dec 31 10:18:53 and bigger battery Dec 31 10:18:54 :) Dec 31 10:19:07 i already drain my n900 battery in 2 hours Dec 31 10:19:16 i'm still shocked that phones seem to have hit this 512mb barrier Dec 31 10:19:28 so i didn't imagin what will be with larger screen :) Dec 31 10:19:29 Arkenoi, Psion Series 5 keyboard > E90 keyboard ;) Dec 31 10:19:29 only phone i've seen go over 512mb is the g2... Dec 31 10:19:42 how much friggin ram do you want? Dec 31 10:19:46 and why? Dec 31 10:19:56 ieatlint, specially when i ve got 16Gb on my desktop Dec 31 10:20:00 vim____, 2Go Dec 31 10:20:07 vim____, 2Gb will be good for me Dec 31 10:20:09 wtf? o0 Dec 31 10:20:11 vim____: because shit takes ram Dec 31 10:20:18 you have any idea how much a browser for instance uses? Dec 31 10:20:20 vim____, because i compile onboard Dec 31 10:20:28 lol, ok Dec 31 10:20:34 end up swapping, and shit gets slow Dec 31 10:20:35 oscillik, yep. well. Tor could be the best balanced: biggest one that still fits in any pocket Dec 31 10:20:40 it is aa pocket computer cellphone... Dec 31 10:20:45 btw, the ps3 was completely broken Dec 31 10:20:51 not a mainframe Dec 31 10:20:51 Tor? Dec 31 10:20:57 psion 5 was a bit too large Dec 31 10:21:17 yep, tor. that motorola-psion combo that was never released Dec 31 10:21:22 vim____, you know every small pc come with 8Gb of ram now Dec 31 10:21:24 :) Dec 31 10:21:30 thor, actually Dec 31 10:21:37 so why not 2Gb in a "pocket" pc Dec 31 10:21:38 i misnamed it Dec 31 10:21:48 i want at least 1gb Dec 31 10:21:57 256mb is... really not enough Dec 31 10:22:04 Arkenoi, do you have a link for that? i'm interested in seeing that Dec 31 10:22:06 clearly ... swap everytime Dec 31 10:22:06 and even the nexus s is still sitting on 512mb Dec 31 10:22:12 gmail in a browser is unusable on N900. Dec 31 10:22:12 http://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/images/thor.jpg this one, late 90's i think Dec 31 10:22:12 i just don't get that Dec 31 10:22:20 woah Dec 31 10:22:22 some prototypes were sold on ebay Dec 31 10:22:34 * oscillik wants Dec 31 10:23:02 * vim____ is eating sushhi for breakfast Dec 31 10:23:10 although, i would imagine that the keyboard for that would be heavily based on the Revo keyboard, and that wasn't very great to use Dec 31 10:23:29 the Series 5 keyboard was about the smallest i could handle comfortably for touch typing Dec 31 10:23:39 do not try to use more than 2Gb of swap in your n900 ... will result in sudden reboot Dec 31 10:24:25 i'm gonna be putting my Series 5mxPRO on ebay soon Dec 31 10:24:26 :( Dec 31 10:25:08 * lardman imagines a Psion series 5 with updated insides and screen Dec 31 10:25:10 even considering selling my netBook too Dec 31 10:25:34 what about a jornada 680 running linux? Dec 31 10:25:36 that thingie had bluetooth and grps, unlike 9210 that appeared on the scene later Dec 31 10:26:06 Arkenoi, i remember seeing a Revo prototype sell on eBay within the last year, and it had bluetooth Dec 31 10:26:13 but some marketing idiots decided to cancel it despite it was almost ready and prototypes were almost working Dec 31 10:26:19 Psion had their fingers in a lot of tech pies Dec 31 10:27:01 people who had hands on it reported heavy bluetooth battery drain and some other issues common for early bt devices, but almost everything else was functional Dec 31 10:27:39 i kinda miss my Nokia 9500 Communicator - it was the closest thing to an updated Series 5mx Dec 31 10:28:17 oscillik, web browser was damn slow :-( Dec 31 10:28:24 and crashed Dec 31 10:28:25 yes it was, painfully Dec 31 10:28:49 and those front-facing keys on the keypad Dec 31 10:28:53 * oscillik facepalms Nokia Dec 31 10:29:19 i missed keyboard shortcuts much when i switched to e90 from 9500 Dec 31 10:29:58 yeah same here Dec 31 10:31:04 actually there was no reason not to provide the same shortcuts in s60 software, as there are plenty of models with qwerty keyboard Dec 31 10:31:12 just nobody cared to Dec 31 10:31:29 s60, so much potential Dec 31 10:31:32 squandered Dec 31 10:31:41 S60 - So much potential, so much fail Dec 31 10:32:01 blah blah blah, certificates, blah blah blah, broken proprietory sdk Dec 31 10:32:06 smoke my balls nokia Dec 31 10:32:10 using Opera Mini Dec 31 10:32:14 haha Dec 31 10:32:17 are you SURE you want to connect to the internet? Dec 31 10:32:19 are you sure? Dec 31 10:32:23 every time you open it Dec 31 10:32:25 fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Dec 31 10:32:58 i downloaded sdk and was quite impressed that "hello world" app consisted of 10,000+ lines of code Dec 31 10:33:21 arkenoi, hm?-) Dec 31 10:33:28 omg Dec 31 10:33:33 lol Dec 31 10:33:43 flux, i ran wc -l on examples/hello , that is Dec 31 10:33:56 arkenoi, before or after compiling? there could be some intermediate generated files.. Dec 31 10:34:01 before! Dec 31 10:34:33 s60 development sucked balls Dec 31 10:34:37 i'm not a programmer, and i know that's a big lol Dec 31 10:34:43 then i downloaded PIPS to see if i can port some familliar unix things there Dec 31 10:34:55 good luck with that Dec 31 10:35:06 only to find out that e90 had completely broken console/stdio emulation Dec 31 10:35:25 making it COMPLETELY FUCKING WORTHLESS Dec 31 10:35:30 the keyboard layout was hardcoded, not related to system one anyhow and plain wrong Dec 31 10:38:51 I know arkenoi, just let it out. Dec 31 10:39:02 were friends here and understand your trauma Dec 31 10:39:24 im so glad you can edit the n900 keyboard layout Dec 31 10:39:32 symbian was hhard for everyone Dec 31 10:56:42 is there a map program other than geeps that can use google local search? Dec 31 12:45:14 hi Dec 31 12:45:35 i want to compile some modules for the power kernel Dec 31 12:45:54 i installed scratchbox so far Dec 31 12:46:12 whats next? Dec 31 12:47:06 read the wiki Dec 31 12:47:09 it's all in there Dec 31 12:47:23 jacekowski: which wiki? Dec 31 12:47:58 maemo wiki Dec 31 12:48:19 ttp://psfreedom.com/wiki/Nokia_N900#Compile_using_kernel-power_.28titan.27s.29_maemo_kernel Dec 31 12:48:56 maemo not psfreedom Dec 31 12:52:16 jacekowski: there are too many wiki pages out there Dec 31 12:53:05 read them all Dec 31 12:53:25 jacekowski: you are a bot, right?;-) Dec 31 12:53:55 no Dec 31 12:54:01 i'm just unfriendly Dec 31 12:54:17 especialy to people that can't be bothered to do something themselves Dec 31 12:54:25 and expect ready solution Dec 31 12:54:49 jacekowski: hey ... Dec 31 12:55:54 jacekowski: you are lucky i forgive you Dec 31 12:57:27 http://wiki.maemo.org/Compiling_the_kernel Dec 31 12:57:28 here Dec 31 12:57:39 3 keywords in google Dec 31 12:57:41 good morning Dec 31 12:57:43 and it's 1st result Dec 31 12:58:11 has anyone used Layar? Dec 31 12:58:55 jacekowski: i didnt say that i want to compile the kernel did i? Dec 31 12:59:06 it's same thing Dec 31 12:59:28 okay, you are right Dec 31 13:01:34 Svoloch: sounds fun, even can be a miniserver Dec 31 13:41:03 * thomasjfox just dropped the rockbox bomb (=binary packages) on maemo.org Dec 31 14:03:53 Happy New Year! Dec 31 14:04:07 wait, where do you live? Dec 31 14:04:15 .au? Dec 31 14:04:25 It must be about that there Dec 31 14:04:27 +10... makes sense Dec 31 14:04:29 west coast? Dec 31 14:04:33 Or is it east Dec 31 14:04:35 I forget Dec 31 14:04:37 nah, west coast is -something Dec 31 14:05:12 I'm actually in South Australia, +9:30 Dec 31 14:05:14 it's 2011 in vladivostok Dec 31 14:05:32 It's half past, but I was busy talking in real life :p Dec 31 14:11:09 Happy new year Dec 31 14:13:42 I've got a few hours yet Dec 31 14:14:47 8 hours here :P Dec 31 14:15:00 i've managed to get a cold all week... kinda ruins new year parties :( Dec 31 14:15:30 it's on a friday, worst new year ever :P Dec 31 14:15:44 aren't you in .il? Dec 31 14:15:56 Yeah Dec 31 14:15:57 * alterego has a shower. Dec 31 14:16:18 i may be very wrong, but i thought the work week ended thursday there Dec 31 14:16:20 everyone does alterego Dec 31 14:16:48 well, it's friday -> saturday Dec 31 14:17:05 so most places will be closed at night Dec 31 14:17:15 ah, right... enjoy religion :P Dec 31 14:17:43 israelis, not us :P Dec 31 14:17:46 MohammadAG, you mean like everywhere else? I don't think there is a country going from Thursday to Friday is there? Maybe one of the really far minus GMT ones? Dec 31 14:18:22 Termana, you guys don't close cause it's not right to open on saturdays Dec 31 14:18:54 ...senior American counterterrorism officials say they have altered their criteria so that a single-source tip can lead to a name being placed on the watch list. Dec 31 14:19:32 And happy upcoming year to you all, my potential terorist suspects! Dec 31 14:19:37 MohammadAG, according to you/your religion, maybe :p Dec 31 14:19:49 RST38h, what did you say your full name was again? Dec 31 14:19:52 I'm not jewish lol Dec 31 14:20:06 Terman: RST38h. Dec 31 14:20:31 * Termana wonders whether they can track RST38h based on his nickname Dec 31 14:20:35 * Termana gives it a shot Dec 31 14:20:37 :p Dec 31 14:21:17 RST38h, too bad you enter your full name into your clients settings :p Dec 31 14:21:40 Termana, apt-cache show xchat | grep Maintainer | head -1 Dec 31 14:21:54 Yea, that was obviously a mistake Dec 31 14:22:16 MohammadAG, that's only going to work when I get my new N900 :p Dec 31 14:22:21 RST38h, you're the maintainer of xchat too Dec 31 14:22:42 Termana, maemo.org/packages/view/xchat Dec 31 14:22:52 Yes, but I do not think it lets you create a link there Dec 31 14:23:27 flying in the US is such a mess of bs anyway Dec 31 14:25:16 s/in/into Dec 31 14:25:40 No, in, also. Dec 31 14:25:50 yeah Dec 31 14:26:28 derf: I always found in was ok, just not enough time to run between terminals and needing to pay pesky baggage charges and pay for headphones and pay for tv and pay for alcohol Dec 31 14:26:41 hmm, yeah it is also pretty rubbish flying in ;) Dec 31 14:26:53 you complain that you fly into the US and get photographed and fingerprinted.... in order for us to fly within the US, we essentially need a gov issued id card that requires us get photographed, typically fingerprinted, and submit at least as much personal detail Dec 31 14:26:56 but at least there's no 4hr queues Dec 31 14:27:09 we just did it before we got to the airport is all Dec 31 14:27:10 lardman: The security stuff is just as bad for domestic as it is international. Dec 31 14:27:17 nah I don;t care about security stuff, just the queuing Dec 31 14:27:22 All the 9/11 flights were domestic ones, after all. Dec 31 14:27:30 lardman: What do you think causes queues? Dec 31 14:27:46 indeed, but there seems to be far less security for internal flights, far fewer checks on baggage and people Dec 31 14:28:17 you go through security in at your point of departure Dec 31 14:28:24 we just rape you a tad at customs is all Dec 31 14:28:40 Or take your electronics. Dec 31 14:29:01 indeed, which is why it's odd that internal flights seemed to be so easy compared with international ones where you'd already been checked on the way out Dec 31 14:29:25 ieatlint: not so long ago in poland there was no law regading domestic flights Dec 31 14:29:33 ieatlint: and you could fly without any id Dec 31 14:29:48 ieatlint: from security point of view Dec 31 14:29:56 Anyway, the worst part about flying in the US is you have to use a US airline. Dec 31 14:30:06 lol +1 Dec 31 14:30:07 airlines required id to prove that you bought a ticket and stuff Dec 31 14:30:13 jacekowski: pre-9/11 here... the rules also stated we could carry knives up to 10cm long on flights prior to 9/11 Dec 31 14:30:44 and some people theretised that it could be even possible to skip security Dec 31 14:30:49 We'd be a lot safer if everyone carried a 10cm knife on flights. Dec 31 14:30:54 on domestic flights Dec 31 14:30:55 and a few years before that, airline tickets didn't used to be tied to names... whoever showed up with the paper ticket got on Dec 31 14:30:56 but nobody tried that Dec 31 14:31:32 derf: well except for air hostesses anyway (being safer that is) Dec 31 14:31:49 i can bet Dec 31 14:31:52 give me 10k Dec 31 14:31:54 lardman: Give them knives, too. Dec 31 14:32:01 And training. Dec 31 14:32:03 and i can get you anything onto a plane Dec 31 14:32:10 hmm, can't have an air hostess stab me for asking for headphones Dec 31 14:32:34 good times Dec 31 14:32:52 thank god i'm white Dec 31 14:32:53 ieatlint: Anyway, Bruce Schneier showed how it was still possible to get on a plane with your name on the no-fly list well after 9/11. Dec 31 14:33:15 derf: i seen airport security from other side very often Dec 31 14:33:19 derf: and how bad is it Dec 31 14:33:32 derf: when i was working on the airport as contractor Dec 31 14:33:42 Well, his method worked even if everyone was doing their job. Dec 31 14:33:47 we could get van full of stuff trough a gate Dec 31 14:33:56 including bombs and other terrorist tools Dec 31 14:33:59 yeah, i've heard the same stories Dec 31 14:34:00 I have no doubt. Dec 31 14:34:03 but we couldn't get a bottle of coke Dec 31 14:34:33 * RST38h dials the hotline Dec 31 14:35:02 somebody else on RAF base ran by americunts Dec 31 14:35:04 my favourite was a contractor friend setting up monitoring systems for escalators and moving walkways at ATL. TSA refused their request to pull a network cable to the equipment, insisting it would be insecure Dec 31 14:35:10 crossed airstrip without stopping Dec 31 14:35:16 even though there was a green light Dec 31 14:35:19 instead, they suggested a 3g modem Dec 31 14:35:21 but you are supposed to stop before it Dec 31 14:35:38 and they started chasing him Dec 31 14:35:43 pointed gun at him Dec 31 14:35:56 than after couple hours passed him to british police Dec 31 14:36:32 Ah, ATL, ATL, I still remember the lines to security there Dec 31 14:37:03 jacekowski: i'll be shocked only if they had their finger over the trigger when they pointed those guns Dec 31 14:37:16 Pretty impressive, about 3-4 hours standing time too Dec 31 14:37:48 lol, I was travelling through Newark (hell-hole) and had 10min to make my flight, but the TSA people are really not interested Dec 31 14:38:16 eventually I persuaded one to let me go to a short queue, but when I got to the front I was told it was for "dips and crips" only Dec 31 14:38:20 thing is Dec 31 14:38:21 lardman: Thank god you did not have to exit the airport at Newark Dec 31 14:38:24 diplomats and disabled people Dec 31 14:38:31 RST38h: yes quite :) Dec 31 14:38:33 how often they catch anybody with bomb or something Dec 31 14:38:35 because so far Dec 31 14:38:40 they failed every single time Dec 31 14:38:54 They do not Dec 31 14:39:09 so when they caught somebody? Dec 31 14:39:12 TSA makes annual reports about their catch, but these are not widely circulated Dec 31 14:39:24 As far as I am aware, they never have Dec 31 14:39:38 i'm pretty sure they would be if there will be numbers that are good for keeping all terrorist business running Dec 31 14:40:06 i mean people would be much more friendly to them if they would be catching terrorist every day Dec 31 14:40:11 but so far they are not Dec 31 14:40:27 not to defend the TSA at all, but when was the last time we know of someone boarding a flight they handled security for with a bomb? Dec 31 14:40:43 definitely not to defend them though :P Dec 31 14:40:45 I wonder - am I crazy for wanting to become a US citizen? Dec 31 14:40:50 Termana: yes Dec 31 14:40:53 there have been so many visible breaches it's disgusting Dec 31 14:40:53 Tooo bad I don't really fit into any of the permanent residence immigration categories Dec 31 14:40:56 Termana: no Dec 31 14:40:58 Too* Dec 31 14:41:07 Termana: If you have rationally assessed the costs and benefits Dec 31 14:41:17 Termana: and you are suicidal a bit Dec 31 14:41:29 Termana: because everybody there may kill/shot you Dec 31 14:41:32 or stab Dec 31 14:41:43 we don't stab people, you're thinking of the uk Dec 31 14:42:03 Seems like the only way to reasonably get a green card is to find someone that will employ you there Dec 31 14:42:07 Here, feed: http://publicintelligence.net/ufouo-tsa-transportation-suspicious-incident-report-tsir-august-2010/ Dec 31 14:42:45 Termana: nope Dec 31 14:43:08 Termana: you can get work visa that way Dec 31 14:43:35 Termana: to get green card you have to go trough green card lottery and you may not get it Dec 31 14:43:51 but there is no work requirements for green card Dec 31 14:44:28 jacekowski, the US immigration site lists several categories to get a green card, having a job there and the business sponsoring you is one of them Dec 31 14:44:29 Full list of TSA reports and other documents here: http://publicintelligence.net/category/documents/united-states-documents/transportation-security-administration-united-states-documents-documents/ Dec 31 14:44:40 Termana: nope Dec 31 14:44:49 Termana: that's work visa Dec 31 14:45:05 Termana: It is a bit different than what you think Dec 31 14:45:10 and then after many years of working like that you can apply for green card Dec 31 14:45:16 But, of course, the lottery is not the only way to get a green card Dec 31 14:45:30 yeah, family of citizen Dec 31 14:45:38 jacekowski, Green Card Through a Job Offer Dec 31 14:45:39 You may be eligible to become a permanent resident based on an offer of permanent employment in the United States. Most categories require an employer to get a labor certification and then file a Form I-140, Immigrant Petition for Alien Worker, for you. Dec 31 14:45:40 or family of somebody who has green card Dec 31 14:45:45 Not that jacekowski *needed* a green card, given his lowish opinion of "americunts" Dec 31 14:46:01 i don't Dec 31 14:46:07 as in i don't care Dec 31 14:46:20 i used to think it's different Dec 31 14:46:34 americ.... Dec 31 14:46:36 wtf? Dec 31 14:46:40 but i went there and it's not like in the movies where it's all nice and they love each other Dec 31 14:46:54 http://www.uscis.gov/greencard indeed does say employment is a method of obtaining it Dec 31 14:46:58 OMG it is NOT like you have seen in movies??? =) Dec 31 14:47:09 jacekowski: where'd you go? Dec 31 14:47:22 ieatlint: Either employment (I140) or marriage (I141) Dec 31 14:47:35 or Refugee or Asylum Dec 31 14:47:44 but I can't claim those really coming from Australia :p Dec 31 14:47:49 see, there you go... just go find some desperate woman who will do a sham marriage Dec 31 14:47:50 Yea, but I am not familiar with the paperwork needed for that Dec 31 14:47:50 or death Dec 31 14:47:58 the accent will help Dec 31 14:48:04 Maybe I should just serve in the US Army for a little while Dec 31 14:48:05 :p Dec 31 14:48:11 haha Dec 31 14:48:13 ieatlint: Hey you can marry a guy in some states Dec 31 14:48:23 remember, our military is *volunteer only* ... think about that Dec 31 14:48:24 LOL Dec 31 14:48:41 Yea, military service does not grant you a green card, sorry Dec 31 14:48:45 RST38h: only a very small number, and it is only recognised at the state level -- it wouldn't help any federal things like green card apps Dec 31 14:48:59 ieatlint: NY, washington, boston, Dec 31 14:50:33 hmm, my touchscreen doesn't seem to respond any more Dec 31 14:50:47 jacekowski: eh.. can't speak highly of washington, but i guess your experiences sucked in boston and NY... unfortunate, but so is life Dec 31 14:50:53 lardman: busy swapping? Dec 31 14:51:07 rebooted, still nothing Dec 31 14:51:12 lardman: noooo! Dec 31 14:51:15 am stuck at the sim card pin screen Dec 31 14:51:22 i was honestly expecting answers like dallas or LA, where i could just simply agree they suck Dec 31 14:51:23 hmmmm Dec 31 14:51:25 lardman: Have you tried it with another finger, maybe one is broken. Dec 31 14:51:26 :P Dec 31 14:51:31 lol Dec 31 14:52:08 lardman: More seriously - next step would be to tr flashing I guess Dec 31 14:52:11 lardman: remove battery etc Dec 31 14:52:21 that too, yes Dec 31 14:52:32 hmm, I was just sat tapping madly on the pix screen and it moved on Dec 31 14:52:37 lardman: open/close it a few times, in case it is some ribbon Dec 31 14:52:40 does it auto boot if you don't press anything? Dec 31 14:52:42 RST38h, maybe I should become a religious workers qualify under special category of jobs Dec 31 14:52:47 lardman: no Dec 31 14:52:48 ieatlint: i'm not saying it plainly sucks Dec 31 14:52:54 I could live with 5 years of god worshipping to become a US citizen Dec 31 14:52:55 :p Dec 31 14:53:07 ieatlint: but all bad things people said about it were mostly true Dec 31 14:53:21 hmm, seems to be doing something now Dec 31 14:53:26 Termana: I think you have to have a complete knowledge of the works of American Idol these days. Dec 31 14:53:28 but the digitiser is way off Dec 31 14:53:31 Termana: Openly worship Satan, make your local government prosecute you, apply for asylum Dec 31 14:53:34 and things like hotel staff not speaking english Dec 31 14:53:50 jacekowski: eh... i've no illusions with my country Dec 31 14:53:51 not in front desk Dec 31 14:54:04 there's way too much valid criticisms in fact Dec 31 14:54:07 but something that never happened to me anywhere else Dec 31 14:54:10 jacekowski: Tried Polish? Dec 31 14:54:20 ah that happened to me as well Dec 31 14:54:39 bloke in elevator told me that his mother was polish Dec 31 14:55:06 "As frustration grows, airports consider ditching TSA" - Washington Post lays another egg Dec 31 14:55:29 and yes, a large part of the people here don't speak english well... more when you count those who simply claim they don't Dec 31 14:55:34 * lardman re-inserts battery with fingers crossed Dec 31 14:55:42 RST38h: makes no difference. Chicken's already there Dec 31 14:56:43 jacekowski: and in american mannerisms, stating that "my mother is polish" is more likely to mean "my mother is of polish descent" than is actually a polish national Dec 31 14:57:05 hmm, startup screen now with wrong date and time Dec 31 14:57:10 and still touchscreen not working Dec 31 14:57:18 and other thing i've noticed, much more people just trying to sell their crap Dec 31 14:57:25 i have to go Dec 31 14:57:29 though I did bypass the pin screen by tapping outside the dialog, so perhaps the top right is still working Dec 31 14:57:50 lardman: Ok. Run somesketching program and see Dec 31 14:58:12 * RST38h suspects it is not the touch screen, somehow Dec 31 14:58:52 hmm, anyway to do that without a touchscreen? Dec 31 14:59:03 SSH Dec 31 14:59:21 I can't tap the screen to select the mode though Dec 31 14:59:30 wifi Dec 31 14:59:40 it does not autoconnect? mhm Dec 31 15:00:00 yeah, but only if an app requests it Dec 31 15:00:20 got email accounts enabled? Dec 31 15:00:37 lardman: ctrl+shift+x and start from terminal? Dec 31 15:00:38 lardman, send yourself an mms? Dec 31 15:00:59 pH5, :D Dec 31 15:01:02 that will work Dec 31 15:01:08 pH5: nice, thanks Dec 31 15:01:30 so what's the drawing app called? Dec 31 15:01:39 as I lack tab completion Dec 31 15:01:59 CTRL + I = tab Dec 31 15:02:07 thanks Dec 31 15:02:17 osso_sketch Dec 31 15:02:42 thanks Dec 31 15:03:13 right, nothing anywhere, but seems to intermittantly come back Dec 31 15:03:26 as I managed to start the phone and get the desktop into edit mode while randomly tapping Dec 31 15:05:53 hmm, this is troublesome this finger-only ui business Dec 31 15:06:14 lardman, how is the sensitivity with stylus Dec 31 15:06:21 nothing Dec 31 15:06:42 was thinking I might just create a backup then reflash the device Dec 31 15:06:56 but I can't press the "New backup" button Dec 31 15:07:05 which is a bit annoying Dec 31 15:07:10 you said its intermittant Dec 31 15:07:14 what's your public IP :P Dec 31 15:07:24 was, but nothing coming through now Dec 31 15:07:27 someone could vnc in for you and click it Dec 31 15:07:49 lcuk: I was tapping like mad and it would very occasionally get the right location, sometimes not, mostly just no events Dec 31 15:07:56 MohammadAG: not connected Dec 31 15:08:07 try modprobe tsc2005 Dec 31 15:08:48 done, no change Dec 31 15:09:10 what does dmesg say? Dec 31 15:09:34 says twl4030_keypad: Spurious key event 4-2 Dec 31 15:09:51 nothing about tsc2005? Dec 31 15:09:57 lardman: What is the current CPU load? Dec 31 15:10:07 anyone know the pipe symbol using ctrl? Dec 31 15:10:20 there is none afaik Dec 31 15:10:24 there is none afaik Dec 31 15:10:31 crap Dec 31 15:10:31 o_O Dec 31 15:10:38 RST38h: load is ~1.7% Dec 31 15:10:40 wtf? Dec 31 15:10:43 cpu rather Dec 31 15:10:50 umm Dec 31 15:10:58 no, that wouldn't work, nvm Dec 31 15:11:00 lardman: I noticed that it does not react to the touch screen when CPU and swap are maxed out Dec 31 15:11:06 But I guess it is not your case Dec 31 15:11:23 no, still has free memory reported too ~4Mb Dec 31 15:11:33 tsc2005 should return errors about the touchscreen Dec 31 15:11:48 MohammadAG: not with some faults. Dec 31 15:11:53 dmesg will show log messages Dec 31 15:11:54 ok, > symbol with ctrl? Dec 31 15:12:15 all log messages that is Dec 31 15:12:17 cat /dev/input/ts Dec 31 15:12:27 lardman, none Dec 31 15:12:56 well data is getting in from the touchscreen Dec 31 15:13:02 coool Dec 31 15:13:04 I get lots of odd symbols with each touch Dec 31 15:13:09 reflash may still help it then Dec 31 15:13:44 phew Dec 31 15:13:50 well 1/2 a phew anyway Dec 31 15:15:18 oh cool Dec 31 15:15:26 got 30 minutes free on skype Dec 31 15:15:59 odd, touching the touchscreen brings the backlight back on, but no response from the ui components Dec 31 15:16:14 actually not so odd I guess Dec 31 15:16:27 lardman: that would be consistent with touches 'off the edge' Dec 31 15:16:37 ok Dec 31 15:16:47 maybe you just need to calibrate? Dec 31 15:16:53 yes I was just thinking that Dec 31 15:17:14 but how to start the applet? Dec 31 15:17:56 vnc Dec 31 15:18:04 no connection Dec 31 15:18:09 ah Dec 31 15:18:38 If calibration has gone that badly wrong, it's likely a hardware fail Dec 31 15:18:41 tscalibrate Dec 31 15:18:48 as root Dec 31 15:18:55 well - barring random disk errors that somehow corrupt the calibration Dec 31 15:19:10 I'm guessing it's hw Dec 31 15:19:25 am stuck on the PIN screen again having shutdown in prep for reflashing Dec 31 15:19:34 still, you could give it a try Dec 31 15:19:37 and the 6 key works sometimes, but not much else Dec 31 15:19:53 shame my pin is not the number of the devil Dec 31 15:19:59 You're at the stage of trying to find where the rattle is on your dashboard, while the car is still rolling over and over Dec 31 15:20:19 ok, reflash it is Dec 31 15:20:21 Might it have gotten damp? Dec 31 15:20:25 nope Dec 31 15:20:37 Good luck! Dec 31 15:20:41 ~pr1.3 Dec 31 15:20:42 extra, extra, read all about it, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update Dec 31 15:20:47 ~mynokia Dec 31 15:20:48 i guess mynokia is a digital robbery courtesy Nokia, or http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription, or https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10366 Dec 31 15:20:49 Bug 10366: MyNokia SMS sent after update without any action from the user Dec 31 15:21:15 SpeedEvil: thanks, will let you know what happens in 5min Dec 31 15:21:29 MohammadAG: are you using the new 0.9.0 release of columbus in extras-devel? Dec 31 15:21:50 MohammadAG: or, can you install it and see if it starts GPS okay? Dec 31 15:21:53 lardman, you could remove the pin Dec 31 15:21:57 then try to calibrate Dec 31 15:22:03 remove the sim* Dec 31 15:22:34 alterego, installing Dec 31 15:22:58 It seems the issue I'm having with Columbus not starting GPS is happening in that version, which worked for me. Dec 31 15:23:01 MohammadAG: might have to as I don;t think the standard image will flash on this phone Dec 31 15:23:13 But it's also happening to at least two other people, but not everyone, which is weird .. Dec 31 15:23:27 * lardman goes to find another phone Dec 31 15:25:11 Is there a way of moving SMSs from one n900 to anotehr, if you move the SIM? Dec 31 15:25:15 Without overwriting Dec 31 15:25:30 You can merge the databases. Dec 31 15:25:46 But you'd have to work that out yourself. Dec 31 15:25:49 Does the backup app do the right thing? Dec 31 15:25:54 No Dec 31 15:26:09 Thanks. Dec 31 15:26:16 alterego, it doesn't start Dec 31 15:26:19 When you reinstall a backup it removes all messages, call history etc and replaces it with the backup you're putting in. Dec 31 15:26:23 MohammadAG: lame :/ Dec 31 15:26:27 alterego: lame Dec 31 15:26:33 How does it work for some people but not for us Dec 31 15:26:37 alterego, columbus that is Dec 31 15:26:41 not the GPS Dec 31 15:26:45 I need to flash my N900 and see what happens. Dec 31 15:26:58 where is the columbus binary? Dec 31 15:26:58 MohammadAG: yeah, I know the issue intimately :P Dec 31 15:27:04 /opt/usr/bin Dec 31 15:27:28 librxsupport.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Dec 31 15:27:42 LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/usr/lib /opt/usr/bin/columbus Dec 31 15:28:07 I seem to have broken adding /opt/usr/lib to /etc/ld.so.conf Dec 31 15:28:08 :) Dec 31 15:29:23 alterego, gps started Dec 31 15:29:37 What? Dec 31 15:29:58 Satellite locked on Dec 31 15:30:10 How are you running it? Dec 31 15:30:21 9 signals too Dec 31 15:30:29 umm, terminal? :P Dec 31 15:30:38 The issue is location services not starting for some people. Dec 31 15:30:44 MohammadAG: exactly like I just said? Dec 31 15:30:46 Sec Dec 31 15:30:51 lemme start it as user Dec 31 15:30:51 What use? Dec 31 15:30:56 And are you doing it from xterm or ssh? Dec 31 15:30:58 bloody setup screen Dec 31 15:31:08 ok Dec 31 15:31:13 it fails to start as user Dec 31 15:31:16 only works as root Dec 31 15:31:25 ffs Dec 31 15:31:28 That is absurd Dec 31 15:31:30 hm Dec 31 15:31:31 I can press the Save button and it turns blue, but doesn't go away, almost as if the hw thinks it has a keydown but no keyup Dec 31 15:31:32 no Dec 31 15:31:37 alterego, it works on the second run Dec 31 15:31:38 Unless there's something fucked in sudoers Dec 31 15:31:55 not really, my system can run anything with sudo Dec 31 15:32:00 alterego, it works Dec 31 15:32:08 * alterego sighs Dec 31 15:32:24 coarse accuracy Dec 31 15:32:31 I don't care about that. Dec 31 15:32:37 I just want to know if the services start :P Dec 31 15:32:40 I like the fullscreen window :P Dec 31 15:32:44 i know, you just want the satellite Dec 31 15:32:51 it works fine on the second run Dec 31 15:33:07 missing config files on first run? Dec 31 15:33:25 Nope Dec 31 15:33:34 That should/doesn't matter. Dec 31 15:33:44 s/should/shouldn't/ Dec 31 15:33:44 alterego meant: That shouldn't/doesn't matter. Dec 31 15:34:01 is there a quick tutorial for compiling kernel modules? would like to see if g_audio works on the n900 :) Dec 31 15:34:42 thp, get the kernel source, edit .config, build modules Dec 31 15:36:00 * alterego sighs Dec 31 15:37:01 Anyone got a FIASCO image for the pre-summit devices handy? Dec 31 15:37:32 just flash the rootfs of the new one Dec 31 15:37:37 * alterego sighs Dec 31 15:37:46 MohammadAG: that's the fallback yeah Dec 31 15:37:54 but thought I should start afresh if poss Dec 31 15:38:02 wouldn't that firmware be ancient by now? Dec 31 15:38:09 sure, but I can update it Dec 31 15:38:09 lardman, flasher-3.5 -F newimage --flash-only=rootfs -f Dec 31 15:38:16 lardman, did up until about two weeks ago. :P Dec 31 15:38:40 GAN900: I've got some scudding about on another HDD, but I have to find the physical drive Dec 31 15:38:42 I thought you had to reflash the summit (and pre-summit?) firmwares anyway, that SSU didn't quite work on them Dec 31 15:38:52 worked until now ;) Dec 31 15:38:58 Heh Dec 31 15:39:24 I thought the emmc flashing was introduced just to bring the summit 300 to same structure as release devices :) Dec 31 15:40:19 How would I clear the env in a subshell to run a command from the terminal? Dec 31 15:40:30 Ah, it is env -i Dec 31 15:41:33 That worked Dec 31 15:42:39 There's something in the environment that's breaking it .. Dec 31 15:43:00 env -i DISPLAY=$DISPLAY /bin/sh -c 'LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/usr/lib run-standalone.sh /opt/usr/bin/columbus' Dec 31 15:43:00 * lardman goes to watch TV while the image downloads Dec 31 15:43:04 That makes it start fine .. Dec 31 15:48:56 flashed rootfs, fingers crossed Dec 31 15:50:25 Okay, it's something to do with the home directory .. Dec 31 15:52:07 So, for some reason, when HOME is set in the env, on certain peoples devices, it breaks location services .. Dec 31 15:53:13 can anyone remember how long first boot takes? Dec 31 15:53:30 ah, no worries, just got the noise Dec 31 15:53:53 crap, ts still not working Dec 31 15:53:56 lardman: an annoyingly and worryingly long time ;) Dec 31 15:54:04 lardman: quite a while Dec 31 15:54:04 Your touchscreen is broken? Dec 31 15:54:08 3-4 mins? Dec 31 15:54:14 And I thought my issue was major :P Dec 31 15:54:18 yeah, looks like a hw failure Dec 31 15:54:21 lardman: you have a summit device? Dec 31 15:54:27 SpeedEvil: pre-summit Dec 31 15:54:40 The TS are available, I think. Dec 31 15:54:51 I don't know how/if they verify warranty info actually. Dec 31 15:55:06 Given that all n900s sold in the UK are in warranty, would they actually check? Dec 31 15:55:28 the label inside is different, not sure they'd be too impressed Dec 31 15:56:17 Not to be a downer. But touchscreen failure should never cause any issue with the keyboard. Dec 31 15:56:31 this is not a kb problem Dec 31 15:56:35 Unless I'm missing something Dec 31 15:56:48 Oh - I thought you were saying only the 6 button worked Dec 31 15:57:34 on the screen, sorry Dec 31 15:57:42 in the PIN dialog Dec 31 15:58:16 ah Dec 31 15:58:22 hmm, I didn't even try the hw keyboard numbers Dec 31 15:58:33 but return on the hw kb didn't seem to do anything Dec 31 15:58:44 I should have put together a 'how to add hw compass' video, so you could add that while in there. Dec 31 15:59:23 go for it, I could do with one for my augmented reality app :) Dec 31 15:59:39 yeah - well - realistically - it's not happening soon alas. Dec 31 15:59:42 hmm, touchscreen is doing something now, again seems like there's no keyup events Dec 31 16:00:01 which means I can't even type in the bloody term as it doesn't get focus Dec 31 16:00:06 Do you have a case? Or a protector? Dec 31 16:00:16 happy new year, to whom it applies Dec 31 16:00:28 SpeedEvil: neither Dec 31 16:00:34 Indeed - australians so far. Dec 31 16:00:56 lardman: I would take some sticky tape, attach to the middle of the display, and pull slightly up Dec 31 16:01:02 lardman: maybe it really is pressed Dec 31 16:02:35 Happy new year DocScrutinizer in about 8 hours ;) Dec 31 16:02:36 SpeedEvil: I don't think so, but I'll give it a go later on Dec 31 16:02:47 DocScrutinizer: how are you at debugging? Dec 31 16:02:53 is there a way of getting out of insert mode in vi without using escape? Dec 31 16:03:01 sometimes brilliant Dec 31 16:03:06 sometimes poor Dec 31 16:03:15 DocScrutinizer: Do you remember the annoying issue I keep suffering with my GPS app and the fact location services fail to start on some builds of my app? Dec 31 16:03:36 you mentioned it Dec 31 16:03:56 I thought it's related to 60s timeout, but wasn't sure Dec 31 16:04:00 Well, before it was to do with dynamic loading of my plugins, and the order in which I did it. Dec 31 16:04:11 lardman: ctrl-Z? Dec 31 16:04:16 oh that one Dec 31 16:04:34 SpeedEvil: ah, thanks Dec 31 16:04:36 naah Dec 31 16:04:38 This time, it seems that it works on some devices, but not on others (mine included). I can however run it when I start off with a clear environment. Dec 31 16:04:53 So I did a bit of playing and it seems that the HOME env variable is causing this strange problem. Dec 31 16:04:54 i set up nokia messaging on my n900, and it worked ok for a few days, then i got a 'Final Email' saying i would not be able to get more mail unless i upgrade my account. I am on 3 uk, is this because nokia messaging only works on orange uk? Dec 31 16:05:00 ctrl-[ Dec 31 16:05:02 but... Dec 31 16:05:06 (at least that is what is causing it for me at the moment) Dec 31 16:05:16 piggz: no Dec 31 16:05:18 I don't suppose I can even edit the sources list though to enable extras-devel Dec 31 16:05:25 because I don't have root Dec 31 16:05:26 piggz: it's because they are turning off nokia messaging for free Dec 31 16:05:31 have to enable r&d mode I suppose Dec 31 16:05:33 Problem is, I (well Qt) needs the HOME variable to find and save it's configuration through QSettings .. Dec 31 16:05:49 SpeedEvil: ah...i see no way to pay for it when i log into the website Dec 31 16:05:52 :nod: Dec 31 16:06:20 piggz: I thought they were turning it off totally - I was inferring the paid from your above comment Dec 31 16:06:32 ah Dec 31 16:06:36 I don't know if it'll be easier to debug what's going on now I can reproduce the error and not having the error 100% Dec 31 16:06:55 i wonder why they are turning it off, i found it quite good Dec 31 16:06:56 sure it is Dec 31 16:06:58 piggz: And I see I misread it Dec 31 16:07:00 (Again, only on my device) MohammadAG said it runs fine on his. Dec 31 16:07:02 tho, i am happy with the imap Dec 31 16:07:10 piggz: Because nokia does things that make no sense. Dec 31 16:07:29 heh Dec 31 16:07:33 And there seem to only be a couple of complaints relating to this problem. And hell, I can't even guarantee that this is the same issue they're having except the symptoms are identical :) Dec 31 16:08:28 alterego: lemme think a while about it while I prepare a coffee for me Dec 31 16:08:51 Thanks DocScrutinizer any ideas are welcome at this stage. Dec 31 16:10:46 moin Dec 31 16:11:07 hmm, just ran tscalibrate, but still not working particularly well Dec 31 16:11:08 moin indeed. Dec 31 16:14:38 lardman: N900? Dec 31 16:15:08 By working "not particularly well" do you mean the TS is off by a lot or that it just isn't working or requires a lot of pressure to work? Dec 31 16:15:32 alterego: starting location is done via a lib, right? What's state of GPS and location 'framework' when a program starts the service and then terminates (possibly ungracefully)? Dec 31 16:15:44 alterego: yep Dec 31 16:16:08 nox-: moin Dec 31 16:16:16 moin DocScrutinizer Dec 31 16:16:24 alterego: it occassionally registers events, normally not where I tap, but no real way to know where, it sometimes only registers a keydown event, but no keyup Dec 31 16:16:58 alterego, then start it with the $HOME variable set :P Dec 31 16:17:10 or hardcode it to /home/user :P Dec 31 16:17:13 alterego: I could imagine the location framework getting severely confused or messed up if the "open" calls aren't paired wit "close" calls Dec 31 16:18:26 looking in sketch, it seems to register where I press, but draws a squiggle from where I last pressed to the current location Dec 31 16:19:06 lardman: touchplane defect. swap Dec 31 16:19:37 lardman: sounds like hw fault Dec 31 16:19:51 :( Dec 31 16:20:10 yeah, I think it's broken Dec 31 16:20:13 ah well Dec 31 16:20:32 DocScrutinizer: yeah, I'm going to try and hardcode paths into QSettings as well, to see if it's IO and not env that causes the issue. Dec 31 16:20:54 lardman: aiui the two foils making for the touchpanel are separated by soem oil. If that oil leaked or oxidized and hardened or whatever, you will see this problem. You need a new touchpanel Dec 31 16:20:56 my wife will be pleased at least, no more trying to code this app up over the holidays Dec 31 16:21:02 lardman: if it's out of warranty take it apart and check the connector :) Dec 31 16:21:23 alterego: it's not mine, I'll send it back to Nokia Dec 31 16:21:37 but thanks for the ideas Dec 31 16:21:47 in fact thanks everyone for your help and ideas :) Dec 31 16:21:52 Yeah, like DocScrutinizer said, if you noticed bright spots on the panel, especially near right edge (i believe) .. Dec 31 16:22:03 So I had an extended battery on my N900 for a few weeks, but ended up going back to the stock battery because the device was a bit too bulky. However since doing this the battery reader on the N900 has been way off. It will suddenly drop from half to red and sometimes it even goes backwards (from red back up to 25%) after letting it sit for a little bit. Any ideas why this may be and how I can fix it? Dec 31 16:22:04 I've had some bright spots for a year or so Dec 31 16:22:30 so yeah, I guess old age/general ageing sort of problem finally come home to roost Dec 31 16:22:36 jef91: you need to run it to flat and then fully charge it on mains adapter Dec 31 16:23:03 Ahh Dec 31 16:23:07 Good advice Dec 31 16:23:16 will have to get around to doing that at some point then Dec 31 16:23:23 i love it when the meter goes up Dec 31 16:23:29 especially when I restart Dec 31 16:24:15 LOL Dec 31 16:24:16 Right? Dec 31 16:24:20 ~aiui Dec 31 16:24:20 hmm... aiui is As I Understand It Dec 31 16:24:26 jef91: exactly. bme is doing weird things to calculate batery, and it stores values to some persistent area Dec 31 16:24:45 MohammadAG: that happens during runtime for me. Dec 31 16:25:03 MohammadAG: I guess because after some "heavy" use then being standby for a while it sorts its' self out Dec 31 16:25:24 Right, Dec 31 16:25:29 * alterego gets ready to hit the road Dec 31 16:26:24 alterego: yes, it does Dec 31 16:26:46 * lardman searches for his wife's discarded Android phone, yuck Dec 31 16:29:17 * alterego wonders what lardmans' wife discarded android for? :) Dec 31 16:30:23 HTC Tattoo, screen is quite small, on-screen kb is really annoying Dec 31 16:30:23 bme most probably has inherited an algorithm to calculate battery charge that's like 10 years old and seen only small evolutionary improvements. It takes into account vltage when idle, voltage when heavy load, and voltage when charging, and is using these values in a complex polynom to predict time-to-empty. At least that's what Nokia phones did 10 years ago, and bme acts exactly same way as those in quite a number of aspects Dec 31 16:30:23 hi all, any pointers on using the N900 as an audio sink over wifi or bluetooth? pulseaudio? a2dp? any experiences? Dec 31 16:30:58 DocScrutinizer: agreed, but if it aint broke right? :P Dec 31 16:31:07 lardman: woof Dec 31 16:31:21 alterego: sorry, please rephrase Dec 31 16:32:22 DocScrutinizer: that old proverb, "If it aint broke, don't fix it" Dec 31 16:32:28 Saviq: nothing here, not even heard any rumours Dec 31 16:32:38 alterego: aah yes Dec 31 16:34:48 alterego: for you location problem I feel like missing input to say anything usefull. Except: "toss printfs in!" Dec 31 16:36:30 DocScrutinizer: I have many, from my perspective everything starts up and initializes fine. Dec 31 16:36:43 you *could* try with strace, and then compare a run that succeeded with a run that failed... but that might be painful Dec 31 16:37:12 YMMV Dec 31 16:37:15 There is no indication (programatically) that location services fail to start, except the fact I don't get any signals for position updates or satellite info updates. Dec 31 16:37:28 * lardman looks to update the Tattoo to Android 2.2.x or something like that as he's going to be using it for at least a few days Dec 31 16:37:39 do you close liblocation?? Dec 31 16:37:53 DocScrutinizer: that should all be handled by Qt Mobility. Dec 31 16:38:01 meh Dec 31 16:38:02 I don't talk to liblocation directly. Dec 31 16:38:48 I don't trust QtM more than I trust windows3.11 for cntrolling my cars's steering Dec 31 16:38:56 Heh Dec 31 16:39:37 DocScrutinizer: I dont want to use Power Kernel rather use my own custom kernel. Are the h-e-n patches easy to patch against a custom kernel? Dec 31 16:39:41 I should look at the qtm bug tracker, but I've asked about these symptoms several times over the past half year in #qt-mobility and no one seems to know what's going on. Dec 31 16:39:57 see QtM is OO. Who knows when it actually opens liblocation? in constructor? Dec 31 16:40:17 DocScrutinizer: No, not in constructor Dec 31 16:40:45 It gets initialized on first call to a function that manipulates it, in my case setting the update interval. Dec 31 16:41:14 Anyhow, gotta go, happy new year folks, talk to you next year. Dec 31 16:41:18 * alterego wanders off. Dec 31 16:41:28 maybe it never closes it again. So some "stack" in liblocation holds a "handle" that get stall. Dec 31 16:42:58 when you run your prog a second time, liblocation gets completely confused as there's one handle that timed out or is corrupted, and another one with same "credentials" so what the lib gonna do? Dec 31 16:43:28 NB just a wild speculation Dec 31 16:43:59 anyway you need to debug QtM, not your program Dec 31 16:46:20 maybe QtM writes some info about time and lon/lat of last fix to $HOME and freaks out if that'S corrupted or whatever Dec 31 16:46:35 strace Dec 31 16:46:58 |grep /home/user Dec 31 16:47:24 (of course a bit smarter a cmdline! ;-) ) Dec 31 16:47:42 alterego, sometimes it happens when using VBUS on hostmode Dec 31 16:47:59 WUT? Dec 31 16:49:05 MohammadAG: what happens? Dec 31 16:50:11 the battery thinks it charged up Dec 31 16:51:28 aah yes Dec 31 16:51:44 hmm, rather odd, touchscreen now working perfectly Dec 31 16:51:57 bme doesn't react nice to getting restarted Dec 31 16:52:05 I was about to turn it off and stick it in a drawer, and it seems to be working Dec 31 16:52:20 hehehe Dec 31 16:52:40 it's a bitch Dec 31 16:53:03 not sure I can trust it now though Dec 31 16:53:07 but I'll give it a go Dec 31 16:54:17 lardman: inspect TS closely for mechanical damage. Small ditches, irregularities, non uniform look when inspecting under bright light from different angles Dec 31 16:54:29 which is good, as updating an android phone with a custom rom looks like a major pita Dec 31 16:54:37 mmmm...pita Dec 31 16:54:54 nothing on the surface DocScrutinizer Dec 31 16:55:01 lol Dec 31 16:55:02 that'd be an awesome name for a pita restaurant: Major Pita Dec 31 16:55:09 pita on serbian means pie :) Dec 31 16:55:13 DocScrutinizer, I also like how removing the charger from the wall still charges the phone for like, 20s Dec 31 16:55:15 major pie :) Dec 31 16:55:32 trx, it's a kind of flat bread here Dec 31 16:55:41 MohammadAG: that's normal when it has stopped charging Dec 31 16:55:46 johnx where is that? Dec 31 16:55:59 the US, but I don't know the origin of the word Dec 31 16:56:02 * johnx checks Dec 31 16:56:03 MohammadAG: the phone will take next to 0 current from charger Dec 31 16:56:08 same in the UK Dec 31 16:56:14 pita that is Dec 31 16:56:32 MohammadAG: so buffer Cs will keep it "charging" for some time Dec 31 16:56:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pita Dec 31 16:56:57 Greece Dec 31 16:57:02 define:pita tells me " ... It is prevalent from North Africa through the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula. ..." Dec 31 16:57:24 ot Turkey Dec 31 16:57:32 comes from pie, so same as trx Dec 31 16:58:12 Pita is a flat white bread Dec 31 16:58:49 yeah Dec 31 16:58:55 we call that "somun" here Dec 31 16:59:41 funny we don't call it pita :P Dec 31 17:01:24 here the turkish shops usually offer Doner Kebap and Durum Doner which is the meat and stuff wrapped in a pita Dec 31 17:01:32 aiui Dec 31 17:01:54 aka `gyros pita' Dec 31 17:02:00 yeah Dec 31 17:02:04 that giros Dec 31 17:02:06 the greek variant Dec 31 17:02:07 thats* Dec 31 17:02:17 or gyros, w/e Dec 31 17:03:13 rather funny how Grreks and Turkish fight about who invented allmost all of their meals Dec 31 17:03:32 DocScrutinizer, yup. saw those in Europe and Japan, but not as much in the US ... Dec 31 17:03:37 yeah :) Dec 31 17:04:24 i could eat some gyros now :/ Dec 31 17:04:35 ok, time for breakfast ... Dec 31 17:04:37 * ShadowJK thought kebap was invented in germany Dec 31 17:04:45 LOL Dec 31 17:04:48 hahaha Dec 31 17:05:24 (by a Turkish immigrant) Dec 31 17:05:33 Here they invented the very special variant Gammeldoener Dec 31 17:05:41 yeah :/ Dec 31 17:06:20 made of meat that's at least 2 years old, and preferrably green ;-D Dec 31 17:06:29 :D Dec 31 17:06:33 DocScrutinizer, green ham and eggs? Dec 31 17:06:37 hey Dec 31 17:06:39 In a city here they invented cupmeat. Apparently they ran out of everything else, so they stuffed kebap in a paper cup. yum. Dec 31 17:07:50 well, to be fair it seems the Austrians invented it Dec 31 17:08:26 :D Dec 31 17:08:54 http://wallpaperswide.com/thumbs/champagne_new_year-t2.jpg -> this is what I send to everyone Dec 31 17:09:29 Well, mooo, johnx, ShadowJK, Doc Dec 31 17:09:36 m00f RST38h Dec 31 17:09:44 how's the future looking? Dec 31 17:09:45 hi RST38h Dec 31 17:10:30 RST38h: mooo to you too Dec 31 17:10:52 try 'apt-get moo' Dec 31 17:11:28 johnx: Who knows? It is obscured by the giant figure of the Tentacled One Dec 31 17:11:55 RST38h, I'll take that as a good omen. better then politics at least ... Dec 31 17:12:09 ShadowJK: I just wonder: do you stir or shake it Dec 31 17:12:47 (cupmeat) Dec 31 17:12:53 I think you throw up Dec 31 17:13:01 hehehehe Dec 31 17:13:26 "Shake that cupmeat." Wasn't there some song about that? Dec 31 17:13:29 And measure the distance? Dec 31 17:14:17 johnx: The Tentacled One feeds on humans through many means, politics being one of them =) Dec 31 17:14:23 then someone dies and it isn't fun anymore Dec 31 17:14:30 (like the sauna competitions) Dec 31 17:14:40 what are the cheapest places in europe to buy mobile phones near switzerland? France? Germany? Dec 31 17:16:05 RST38h, I was hoping he'd feed on the politicians, but if he feeds on humans I guess that's out :| Dec 31 17:17:02 * DocScrutinizer hands a Jamesey's Breakfast Coctail to everybody Dec 31 17:17:20 * lardman wanders off, should be back later, but Happy New Year to all anyway Dec 31 17:17:34 happy new years lardman Dec 31 17:17:41 ShadowJK: Not if they die in a truly spectuacular way, like throwing their intestines out or something Dec 31 17:17:51 * RST38h is definitely in festive mood tonight Dec 31 17:18:13 lardman: did touchscreen work at the end? Dec 31 17:18:54 why i get invalid module format when compiling dvb-usb modules for the power kernel? Dec 31 17:19:12 ptl: france generally is f'ng expensive on electrnics Dec 31 17:19:29 DocScrutinizer51: good to know :) Dec 31 17:19:36 why is it so? Dec 31 17:19:44 ptl: they got a special tax for it Dec 31 17:19:59 oh... Dec 31 17:20:03 afaik Dec 31 17:20:31 Germany isn't bad. England is good Dec 31 17:20:46 ...when it comes to hardware prices Dec 31 17:21:20 U S A! U S A! Dec 31 17:22:21 kudos gan, I just threw up a little in my mouth :) Dec 31 17:24:27 Germany? Stuttgart maybe, DocScrutinizer51? Dec 31 17:25:25 tybollt_, can't beat the prices though :) Dec 31 17:25:53 tybollt_, cheap electronics. Dec 31 17:26:05 tybollt_, also: be thankful for your microprocessors. :P Dec 31 17:28:24 GAN900, errr, aren't those made in Taiwan? Dec 31 17:28:43 johnx, yeah yeah. Dec 31 17:29:10 GAN900, they can thank us for Intel, Microsoft and Apple ... errr, wait Dec 31 17:29:59 hmm did they remove the free version of Qik from the ovi store? :> Dec 31 17:31:31 then you can thank us for AC :) Dec 31 17:32:36 thank who? :P Dec 31 17:32:52 serbia of course :) Dec 31 17:33:11 trx, nah, AC is a British company: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Cars Dec 31 17:33:16 lol Dec 31 17:33:18 not that Dec 31 17:33:27 the alternating current Dec 31 17:33:38 (Tesla) Dec 31 17:33:40 air conditioning was my next guess ... Dec 31 17:33:43 lol Dec 31 17:33:47 hehe ok, I just saw some "USA USA" stuff up the chat, so was wondering if the americans were trying to take the credits for that ^^ Dec 31 17:34:07 :) Dec 31 17:40:24 USA? thanks for chewing gum and guns, and peace in Iraq Dec 31 17:40:30 :-P Dec 31 17:40:40 haha Dec 31 17:41:46 thanks for some rocks from the moon (though I'm not sure I need them) Dec 31 17:43:02 DocScrutinizer, hey. be thankful. we invented democracy Dec 31 17:43:15 not true Dec 31 17:43:16 oh yeah, I forgot XD Dec 31 17:43:21 Greeks invented democracy Dec 31 17:43:28 Venemo, sorry, forgot the tags Dec 31 17:43:35 :P Dec 31 17:43:51 is Geneve cheaper than Zürich generally? Dec 31 17:44:06 johnx: you invented it, streamlined it, patented it, and then outsourced it Dec 31 17:44:10 note to all: it's safe to put sarcasm tags around pretty much everything I say, especially today Dec 31 17:44:27 DocScrutinizer, and if you're not good, we'll bring it over to wherever you are :> Dec 31 17:44:29 is sarcasm an U.S. invention? Dec 31 17:46:15 no, Michel Moore is an U.S. invention ;-) Dec 31 17:47:03 modern "democracy" has nothing to do with democracy Dec 31 17:47:16 I thought he was a cheap knockoff of something else. Dec 31 17:48:27 kerio, and in some ways, that's a good thing Dec 31 17:49:01 johnx: not really, no Dec 31 17:49:12 we have the tools to implement a working direct democracy nowadays Dec 31 17:49:46 kerio: No, we don't. Dec 31 17:49:49 kerio, Uhm, doesn't that kind of inevitably lead to steamrolling the minorities? Dec 31 17:50:10 yep Dec 31 17:50:11 kerio: Direct democracy is predicated on a population that knows all the issues it's voting on. Dec 31 17:50:26 johnx: just in a different way than it is now Dec 31 17:50:39 And - reasonably - has spent a bit of time thinking about each issue in a rational manner. Dec 31 17:50:40 SpeedEvil: not sure if you noticed, but we also have tools to spread insane amounts of knowledge about anything anywhere in no time Dec 31 17:50:50 kerio: You're missing the point. Dec 31 17:51:16 SpeedEvil: do you think politicians are aware of the things they do? Dec 31 17:51:20 kerio: You are presented with a bill to restrict fishing of a certain species of fish, in an area you have no direct knowledge of. Dec 31 17:51:26 kerio, people are still working with squishy v1.0 human brains though, and are thus only capable of assimilating a certain amount of knowledge at a time Dec 31 17:51:38 kerio: How do you vote? Given that you have 38000 votes to do that day on various issues. Dec 31 17:51:39 SpeedEvil: no i'm not Dec 31 17:51:45 because it's presented to the people living in that area Dec 31 17:52:08 also our politicians work 3 days/week for about 4 hours Dec 31 17:52:10 And the people living in the area don't care about fishing, as it's only 0.1% of the population who do it. Dec 31 17:52:35 At least in principle, politicians have quality advice to fall back on on each issue. Dec 31 17:52:36 DocScrutinizer, well, then both the past and current implementations of democracy aren't perfect solutions then. Maybe it's time to do it over Dec 31 17:52:42 SpeedEvil: so why should it be voted upon by people? Dec 31 17:52:54 kerio: That is what direct democracy means Dec 31 17:53:05 ...no Dec 31 17:53:09 kerio: You get to make the decisions, not elected representatives. Dec 31 17:53:10 johnx: I'm not happy with any state Dec 31 17:53:21 why should elected representatives decide upon a particular fish Dec 31 17:54:06 DocScrutinizer, I kinda wished there was a way to make micro-nations work out ... Dec 31 17:54:07 kerio: Because there has been concern raised that it's dangerously close to a level at which the current fishing efforts will collapse the stock - say. Dec 31 17:54:17 johnx: ack Dec 31 17:54:24 Ain't you gentlemen being extra gloomy tonight? Politics... Dec 31 17:54:35 SpeedEvil: so there is an explanation Dec 31 17:54:37 there are pros and cons Dec 31 17:54:38 Tonight! I'm hoovering. Dec 31 17:54:41 people can evaluate them Dec 31 17:55:04 kerio: Right. But if it's one of a thousand decisions a day - how much effort are people going to take on deciding on each? Dec 31 17:55:08 maybe we should just whip up an AI (or failing that an expert system) to run the gvmt Dec 31 17:55:14 SpeedEvil: built your hooverboard? Dec 31 17:55:24 DocScrutinizer: No - I lack the ~$60000 Dec 31 17:55:25 SpeedEvil: on the important ones? let's hope "enough" Dec 31 17:55:53 It used to - sort-of work that way. Dec 31 17:56:05 Haansard got extensive coverage in UK papers a hundred years ago. Dec 31 17:56:15 (the transcripts of parliament) Dec 31 17:56:27 SpeedEvil: thought you might have switched to solid fuel boosters aka silvetser rockets maybe Dec 31 17:56:43 DocScrutinizer: Naah. I want a rechargable one ideally. Dec 31 17:57:21 hooverboard? Dec 31 17:57:42 naah - hoovering - vacuum cleaning - tonight. Dec 31 17:57:51 * johnx wants to build one of the leaf blower hoverboards Dec 31 17:58:11 I also have a paper design for a hoverboard that can accellerate from rest at ~2G, and climb to ~4km under battery power Dec 31 17:58:30 (~1.5km if you want to come down in a controlled manner) Dec 31 17:58:46 johnx: Why not build a water-pump powered jetpack instead? Moarrr powerrrr Dec 31 17:58:58 those look fun too Dec 31 17:59:18 The idiot box is showing NY in .IL Dec 31 17:59:24 MTHEL ftw Dec 31 17:59:45 Mohammad: Looks like you do celebrate it, at least at some spots Dec 31 18:00:18 johnx, that sounds dangerously like state rights. :P Dec 31 18:01:28 GAN900, that'd work too. Though I am notably leery about some of the state governments ... Dec 31 18:01:44 Well, don't live there then. Dec 31 18:02:11 Sooo, once he puts all the state governments on that list, what should he do? Dec 31 18:02:21 proper hoverboard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4N-CLPXF8w Dec 31 18:02:30 RST38h, move to where most people live who agree with his views. Dec 31 18:02:51 RST38h, stake out an island in the south pacific and set up my own co-dictatorship with my wife and cat Dec 31 18:02:52 Which when you're talking about US states is almost always going to be somewhere. Dec 31 18:03:22 johnx: I disagree - hoverboards need to go over uneven ground, and be capable of significant accelleration. Dec 31 18:03:34 johnx: But whom are you going to prosecute there? Dec 31 18:03:43 johnx: stateless societies? they are stable http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/12/06/the_mystery_of_zomia/ Dec 31 18:03:47 RST38h, coconuts Dec 31 18:04:01 dendrophile! Dec 31 18:04:03 someone got a wrench? I need to tighten the screws on the steel pipe between the O2 pressurized and the acetylene bottles Dec 31 18:04:16 or rather can be Dec 31 18:04:24 SpeedEvil, video or it didn't happen :P Dec 31 18:04:53 pupnik: That is liberal Boston professor reading too much into his observations Dec 31 18:04:57 pupnik, I think the last time this came up I think the question was asked: Why don't you move there and give us a first hand account Dec 31 18:05:15 you wouldn't fit in, stateboy :) Dec 31 18:05:30 not me, *you* :P Dec 31 18:05:56 johnx: I only have a paper design unfortunately. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15230 - ~150 of those in a close-packed array, a lot of lithium-ion batteries, and some control gear Dec 31 18:06:58 SpeedEvil, does the power/weight work out? Dec 31 18:07:11 johnx: With latest li-ion batteries, yes. Dec 31 18:07:14 So I don't think this is a bug but my screen keeps shutting off after a bit and can't be woken up with taps, there is a little slide switch on the side I have to use to see my screen again. I'd really like to see the normal (slide this to unlock) screen instead of needing to use the physical switch. Dec 31 18:07:18 Anyway to do that? Dec 31 18:07:36 johnx: You - with a ~60Kg board, can lift a 100Kg person, and accellerate them at 1.5-2G Dec 31 18:08:08 thefool: pressing the power button will give you the slide to unlock Dec 31 18:08:19 Ah, much better. Dec 31 18:08:22 Thanks Dec 31 18:08:25 johnx: this is rather energy intensive - the motors draw ~100Kw Dec 31 18:08:40 thefool: see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9tIZwJV6w for more options Dec 31 18:08:52 100KW? Dec 31 18:08:53 wtf Dec 31 18:09:16 kerio: 30Kg of li-ion batteries - recent ones - can supply this for a few min Dec 31 18:09:17 * RST38h prefers flying carpets though: more space Dec 31 18:10:38 SpeedEvil: there's a youtube of a hexacopter lifting a 3kg drill Dec 31 18:11:35 pupnik: yes. It's a tradeoff - exhaust velocity vs manoeverability. And exhaust velocity is a proxy for power use. Dec 31 18:11:45 Venemo, thanks again Dec 31 18:12:19 thefool: you're welcome Dec 31 18:12:19 SpeedEvil: i've been paper designing those since i was 6 years old :) Dec 31 18:12:37 pupnik: Sure - but this is costed, and likely to work. Dec 31 18:15:03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gfBYARn-T8 cheaper! Dec 31 18:16:27 pupnik: Sure. But you can't transport it in the back of a car, pull it out, leap on it, and flyu away Dec 31 18:16:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30-88Wr0NhI also very controlabale Dec 31 18:16:54 that's unstable Dec 31 18:17:20 and you can't make it fit in a car Dec 31 18:17:30 unless you section it Dec 31 18:18:03 A 1.2m*1.2m board, of the above description, weighing 60Kg will fit in a car. Dec 31 18:18:24 Ok - you may need to fold the seats down - but still. Dec 31 18:20:55 And I agree it's not flyable without fly-by-wire. Dec 31 18:21:09 That's what the n900 with the real-time patches is for. Dec 31 18:22:16 SpeedEvil: how about just lifting the n900? Dec 31 18:22:33 kerio: that's much, much cheaper. Dec 31 18:22:46 add invisibility Dec 31 18:23:03 and no noise Dec 31 18:24:40 No noise is not too hard, invisibility is hard. Dec 31 18:24:59 just the visible spectrum Dec 31 18:25:56 LEDs on the bottom help Dec 31 18:27:15 happy new year Dec 31 18:27:46 SpeedEvil: metamaterials? Dec 31 18:28:20 kerio: they don't really exist in a useful form. But counterlighting has a long history Dec 31 18:28:35 so you guys are spending the new year's eve on this channel? Dec 31 18:29:37 yeah, we should really go out and party on this special occasion Dec 31 18:29:47 i wasn't sure that the Earth could make another roundtrip around the sun this year Dec 31 18:30:21 I'm not partying either. I just have to many todos this time Dec 31 18:30:41 I'm working on finishing up some awful flu or cold or something Dec 31 18:30:58 and i party all the way =) Dec 31 18:33:08 My screen is spending the whole year at this channel! Dec 31 18:33:14 It is very patient. Dec 31 18:36:18 Ok, so trying to figure out gmail contact syncing now. I used the mail for exchange sync to get all of my contacts and calendar synced yet none of my contacts are showing up under the contacts app, any ideas? Dec 31 18:38:17 unlike SpeedEvil here's someone who understands vertical flight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YgZPtlSMkA Dec 31 18:39:07 pupnik: yes, I know about gyrocopters/helicopters, and the various tradeoffs between them Dec 31 18:41:12 pupnik: wtf is wrong with that link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30-88Wr0NhI ? It's 10s of mess for me, also says 0:10 but has 60 cuts Dec 31 18:41:47 am I supposed to watch this slomo? Dec 31 18:50:26 DocScrutinizer: works here sorry - youtube is a bit weird sometimes Dec 31 18:50:46 you can get a personal autogyro made in austria for ~100k euro http://www.arrow-copter.com/preiskonfigurator_standard_en.html Dec 31 18:52:44 pupnik: Just 94k euro! Dec 31 18:53:55 pupnik: Looks like they also sell lots of extras (scroll down) Dec 31 19:03:00 pupnik: and what paperwork do you need to get to fly it? Dec 31 19:12:20 ds3: such things are in flux and not easy to answer Dec 31 19:12:43 oh Dec 31 19:12:55 if you fold the paper a specific way, perhaps the license request form itself could become the flying contraction Dec 31 19:13:59 does that in it self require a license? ;) Dec 31 19:14:11 89/01 of the gyroplane without collective pitch as defined UL - Since November 2001 NfL II. Thus, now in Germany muster a UL-tested after gyroplane BUT as individual pieces or samples and be approved. Guidelines for the training of helicopter-carrying guide are currently being prepared and approved in about 2 years in all instances. The issue of a UL-gyroplane-licenses of the German Ultralight Association is responsible. No guidelines - no licenses - who Dec 31 19:14:31 ds3, thats the thing Dec 31 19:14:45 Google Translate Fails. Dec 31 19:14:46 "I was cming in to bring it you, but a gust of wind caught me.." Dec 31 19:15:59 hehe Dec 31 19:16:05 Meanwhile: The Last Roll of Kodachrome Film Ever Will Be Developed Today Dec 31 19:17:16 cool tradition in germany is that voluntary associations manage certificaitons Dec 31 19:17:36 What about federal safety regulations though? Dec 31 19:18:05 it's really legally hard to describe - yes technical certifications exist Dec 31 19:18:37 in the 80s a bunch of rebels pretty much just invented the ultralight class Dec 31 19:19:03 probably the funnest flying has to be sailplanes - silent and challenging Dec 31 19:19:15 very popular here Dec 31 19:19:55 the other thing to look into is first-person-view model airplane flight Dec 31 19:20:24 visor + transmitter/reciever Dec 31 19:20:28 * RST38h cannot believe the government has not tried to regulate this kind of thing Dec 31 19:20:39 (I mean, not the models, but the ultralights) Dec 31 19:20:50 oh they have but there's just this tradition in germany of delegating such authority to 'clubs' Dec 31 19:21:24 always a push/pull struggle over such things Dec 31 19:21:46 how much take-off space/runway do this autogyros need? Dec 31 19:22:12 depends, 0-200 meters Dec 31 19:22:25 they can make a vertical liftoff? Dec 31 19:22:32 those with 'jump capability' can Dec 31 19:22:39 RST38h, i am guessing though 0metres would lead to rather a short haircut Dec 31 19:22:51 ah ok but they need some space over ground to gain speed then Dec 31 19:22:57 youtube autogyro+jump Dec 31 19:22:57 - RST38h, Dec 31 19:22:58 yes Dec 31 19:23:39 well and you cant really hoover Dec 31 19:23:59 not so much, but 35km/h flight is no problem Dec 31 19:24:00 its more a plane without wings than a helicopter Dec 31 19:24:11 right and 1/10th the cost Dec 31 19:24:47 i tihnk old/small planes or ultralightweights are in the same range or even cheaper Dec 31 19:25:17 i guess a ultralightweight costs less than 50k Eur Dec 31 19:26:42 the most expensive things here in germany would be paperwork, license, checks, inspections, insurance and all after a few years anyways .. plus fuel Dec 31 19:26:44 also powered paragliders Dec 31 19:27:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=perzaks4eMc nice fpv footage Dec 31 19:27:35 meh, wouldn't want to go the 2300km to my holiday location in spain by paraglider Dec 31 19:27:39 i have a few hours flight training and i don't like the fear factor very much Dec 31 19:28:24 http://choicenews.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/skycar1.jpg Dec 31 19:28:27 what about this guy Dec 31 19:28:37 that added a parasail onto a beachbuggy Dec 31 19:28:59 i think he's from UK Dec 31 19:29:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCugq3gfBDY one of my very favorite FPV videos Dec 31 19:30:00 (great music too) Dec 31 19:32:33 So just got myself an n900 for christmas, upgraded to pr1.3 and installed a crap ton of apps. Unfortunately some of the ones I was looking forward to the most aren't working or even showing icons like smscon Dec 31 19:33:42 hey New_n900_User Dec 31 19:34:52 New: Suggestion #1: Do not install random apps, always check talk.maemo.org for possible problems Dec 31 19:35:16 always install one-by-one and test thoroughly Dec 31 19:35:20 my-maemo.org also has reviews of many apps, with screenshots Dec 31 19:35:21 haha, I've been stalking talk.maemo fora while now. None of the random apps were all that random. Dec 31 19:35:26 uninstall if you're not convinced Dec 31 19:35:29 But yeah, I should have tested one at a time... Dec 31 19:35:38 New_n900_User, just reboot Dec 31 19:35:43 which apps dont work? Dec 31 19:35:54 lcuk, if that fixes it I'm going to kick myself. Dec 31 19:36:12 lcuk: ++ for correct advice Dec 31 19:36:17 wtf? you installed tons of apps without a single boot? Dec 31 19:36:40 Well, he did have the initial boot, didn't he? =) Dec 31 19:36:46 LOL Dec 31 19:36:50 well you shouldn't* have to reboot linux, but with maemo5 there are some issues with apps not appearing in the menu Dec 31 19:36:50 It's Linux! :) Dec 31 19:36:53 MEHEHE Dec 31 19:36:53 dropn900 and smscon editor Dec 31 19:37:00 I haven't found anything else. Dec 31 19:37:19 ok so what doesnt work about them Dec 31 19:37:28 and does the author say they are ready Dec 31 19:37:35 pupnik: quite some services aren't starting correctly without a reboot Dec 31 19:37:35 pupnik: BTW, I now officially want that helicopter for Christmas (next year) :) Dec 31 19:37:41 or mentioning things about nuts and a vice Dec 31 19:37:55 Well smscon editor starts up and then shuts down without an error message and dropn900 doesn't seem to do anything when I click it's icon. Dec 31 19:37:59 (restarting now) Dec 31 19:38:17 And yes the author of both says that they are ready. Dec 31 19:38:20 you dont want to dropn900 anyway Dec 31 19:38:24 I don't? Dec 31 19:38:25 n900fly is much better app Dec 31 19:38:30 ... Dec 31 19:38:36 LOL Dec 31 19:38:46 dropn900 is a a dropbox client. Dec 31 19:39:00 * DocScrutinizer is writing a quick n900blast Dec 31 19:39:05 no wonder it doesnt work whenever mine hits the floor Dec 31 19:39:20 so I should just try clicking the icon next time? Dec 31 19:39:37 Enh, who am I to judge? To each his own. Dec 31 19:40:38 And by icons not showing up I don't mean in the application list but simply that they get a little blue square when they had icons in the app manager. Dec 31 19:40:54 New_n900_User: customizing your N900 is a hobby for weeks Dec 31 19:41:34 uhoh... Dec 31 19:41:37 New_n900_User: each app should get a thorough test by you, including a boot and check for battery/cpu hogs and filling up any filesystems Dec 31 19:41:53 I shut it down and it's not coming back on. Shows Nokia and then shuts off. Dec 31 19:42:09 if you think the app has issues, uninstall it. Don't forget to use backup app frequently Dec 31 19:42:20 New_n900_User, thats something deep in the bowels and has been hammered and bashed into submission on more than one occasion Dec 31 19:42:33 but each time it gets hit another one pops out of whack Dec 31 19:42:37 \nick epp Dec 31 19:42:39 New_n900_User: too bad, you probably installed some bootmanager, or have a drained battery Dec 31 19:43:51 hmm seems I installed a bootmanager but if I choose internal flash it just shuts off. Dec 31 19:44:00 hey are there any other repos i should add for more cool downloads? Dec 31 19:44:02 New_n900_User: first: switch off device, remove and instert battery. then hook up to nokia wallcharger, and see if it starts flashing amber Dec 31 19:44:19 (It was at 76% battery when I shut it off) Dec 31 19:44:27 ok Dec 31 19:44:30 don't ask Dec 31 19:44:48 charging is about system as much as about battery charge Dec 31 19:45:21 odds are you end in bootmenu as well when plugging in the N900 to charger Dec 31 19:45:36 yeah Dec 31 19:45:42 so that's probably time for your first flashing experience Dec 31 19:45:45 (so I didn't install that right?) Dec 31 19:45:45 ~flash Dec 31 19:45:45 methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Dec 31 19:46:16 Well, already have it all downloaded from flashing the pr1.3 Dec 31 19:46:31 installing and maintaining bootmanagers is a delicate task, and esp multiboot is known to be nasty Dec 31 19:46:40 and doing havok to system Dec 31 19:46:43 what extra repos should i add Dec 31 19:47:00 user_, I'd stick with just testing. Dec 31 19:47:08 user_, leave dev for the nutcases Dec 31 19:47:10 user_: if you're asking this way, my advice is: none Dec 31 19:48:13 DocScrutinizer, So I honestly don't think I installed a bootmanager, I just said that because it came to that boot selection screen and I figured I could have misclicked somewhere. Is that there by default? Dec 31 19:49:05 So I spent a longggg time installing apps, anyway to not have to reflash? Dec 31 19:49:24 im no rookie to nix. im just wondering if there is any repos besides testing and dev that have cool packages Dec 31 19:49:35 RST38h: water-pump powered jetpack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0snTqLQLpBA Dec 31 19:49:56 user_, I don't think so, it's not like the 770,8x0s Dec 31 19:50:09 user_: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Dec 31 19:50:20 I must have had 20 repos installed on my 770 Dec 31 19:50:45 compulsive app collection is curable! Sign up for our deprogramming sessions today, only 300 euro for a 2 day course with room & board! Dec 31 19:50:56 user_: there's tools Dec 31 19:51:50 and there's a link to a repo install file in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Dec 31 19:52:14 if you have a cat to burn Dec 31 19:52:45 New_n900_User: quite obviously you installed some bootmanager. There's no bootmenu usually Dec 31 19:53:53 Ok, wasn't sure. It came up when I had it plugged into the charger. Dec 31 19:53:58 pupnik: Yea, I know ;) Dec 31 19:54:36 * RST38h goes to the closet to take his deprogramming tool Dec 31 19:55:53 we also have an app to track your progress! Dec 31 19:56:29 RST38h, is that the full size deprogramming tool, or the later compact release? Dec 31 19:59:00 for dinner, we serve your choice of frozen eel, halibut or trout (after tenderizing) Dec 31 19:59:56 lcuk: It is the one with the long handle Dec 31 20:00:28 o_O I thought those had been recalled? Dec 31 20:00:48 I kept one just for this kind of cases Dec 31 20:01:11 + it is good for self-defence Dec 31 20:03:06 serious uhoh, trying to flash I get http://pastebin.com/DdLwtxHz Dec 31 20:03:30 YOu did not put your n900 into recovery mode or whatever it is called Dec 31 20:05:36 by holding u down when I plug it in? Dec 31 20:05:40 I did that... Dec 31 20:06:04 it showed the usb connection symbol on the top right... Dec 31 20:06:19 es Dec 31 20:06:26 hmm Dec 31 20:07:01 If you look at the pastebin it detects it at line 5 Dec 31 20:07:24 attempts to boot it into flash mode and then says it can't find it again. Dec 31 20:07:30 ~flashing Dec 31 20:07:31 methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Dec 31 20:08:05 what happened to infobot? Dec 31 20:08:09 :( Dec 31 20:08:35 kerio: she is now known as apt Dec 31 20:08:41 I'm following those directions btw. Dec 31 20:09:05 she changed sex? Dec 31 20:09:15 ~flashing Dec 31 20:09:16 somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Dec 31 20:09:44 has always been her, didn't you know? Dec 31 20:10:00 jacekowski: everyone refers to it as "she" Dec 31 20:10:22 it? Dec 31 20:10:32 the bot Dec 31 20:11:21 apt-get Dec 31 20:11:26 apt -get Dec 31 20:11:44 apt itude Dec 31 20:11:53 yeah lcuk, I already had that idea yesterday :P Dec 31 20:12:04 just checking Dec 31 20:12:23 although I think everytime I see someone "ls" in a channel a bot shouild actually return the results Dec 31 20:12:46 ls Dec 31 20:12:48 :( Dec 31 20:12:52 horse-porn.mpg Dec 31 20:12:59 lool Dec 31 20:13:32 So it keeps booting me into the boot menu and won't let me flash, any ideas? Dec 31 20:14:31 * lcuk ponders which things are causing such a boot blockage Dec 31 20:15:25 maybe this helps? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=906515&postcount=12 Dec 31 20:15:54 lcuk: fucked up boot loader maybe? =) Dec 31 20:21:20 http://pastebin.com/ewNr0eQW Dec 31 20:21:43 thanks, I tried that and I got the error above, seems like it got a bit further though. Dec 31 20:21:59 New_n900_User, reboot both systems Dec 31 20:22:16 but IDK much about this boot menu stuff Dec 31 20:22:28 * lcuk nervous around it so doesnt install much like that Dec 31 20:22:31 I've rebooted the n900 about a dozen times and my desktop... hasn't been rebooted in 4 years. Dec 31 20:22:38 ok Dec 31 20:23:01 my ubuntu screws up and won't reflash more than a couple of times without giving odd usb errors Dec 31 20:23:44 .oO(long uptimes usually just mean security holes...) Dec 31 20:23:45 :) Dec 31 20:24:16 nox-: ksplice! Dec 31 20:24:24 mmh Dec 31 20:24:35 how well does that work in practice? Dec 31 20:24:42 dunno Dec 31 20:24:49 heh ok Dec 31 20:24:50 but they offer support and shit Dec 31 20:27:02 heh Windows Phone 7 Marketplace security cracked: http://www.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-marketplace-app-security-cracked-proof-of-concept-video Dec 31 20:27:13 that was quick Dec 31 20:27:36 jacekowski: supposedly it too ONE developer 6 hours to do too. Dec 31 20:28:51 well, all DRMs will be cracked Dec 31 20:28:53 Oh Microsoft... When will you stop overstating your security, stability and TCO to the unknowing masses? Dec 31 20:29:21 * mtnbkr hates Digital RESTRICTION management Dec 31 20:29:29 have you seen fail0verflow presentation about ps3? Dec 31 20:29:40 piracy is evil Dec 31 20:29:41 jacekowski: yeah, that was/is awesome too. Dec 31 20:29:47 keep getting: Write failed after 0 bytes Dec 31 20:29:47 usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable Dec 31 20:29:51 but drm as way to fight piracy is even worse Dec 31 20:30:08 Yeah, hijacking ships and mass-murdering its crew is quite evil Dec 31 20:30:17 Arg! Dec 31 20:30:38 lcuk: now watch and marvel Dec 31 20:30:56 apt: info wget Dec 31 20:31:14 copyrigh infringement, though, might be even considered a valid act of civil disobedience Dec 31 20:31:16 apt: +info wget Dec 31 20:31:17 Updating debian files... please wait. Dec 31 20:31:43 o! Dec 31 20:32:22 Doc: Is it swapping? =) Dec 31 20:32:31 wget: (retrieves files from the web), section web, is important. Version: 1.12-2.1 (sid), Packaged size: 736 kB, Installed size: 2312 kB Dec 31 20:32:44 jacekowski: there's nothing scarier than a bunch of hackers you just pissed off Dec 31 20:32:44 RST38h: you know debian repo lists are loooong Dec 31 20:32:57 might I have better luck on a windows computer? Dec 31 20:32:57 Seems to have heard me and reacted Dec 31 20:33:05 You will might Dec 31 20:33:10 s/will/well Dec 31 20:33:16 Because right now it looks like I actually manager to brick this thing. Dec 31 20:33:21 *managed Dec 31 20:33:24 kerio: there is Dec 31 20:33:35 kerio: even more hackers you pissed off Dec 31 20:33:38 heh Dec 31 20:33:50 i was going to say a bunch of gangsters you just pissed off Dec 31 20:34:09 nah you can hide from them Dec 31 20:34:37 If you're trying to flash and it enters bootmenu, you've missed the opprtunity to put it into flashing mode, I'd think. It's no longer listening for the flasher Dec 31 20:34:52 yes Dec 31 20:35:13 plug in the shut down device *after* flasher says "waiting..." Dec 31 20:35:16 bootmenu sux. Dec 31 20:36:17 also keep in minf it will refuse to flash if battery isn't completely (err sufficiently) charged Dec 31 20:36:44 also known as flat-battery-flashing-deadlock Dec 31 20:38:00 New_n900_User: so I suggest you try to keep battery consumption down to a minimum Dec 31 20:38:09 until you managed to flash the thing Dec 31 20:38:46 there's no way to charge battery with N900 as long as you don't have a working system Dec 31 20:39:14 you could start coldflash Dec 31 20:39:20 but instead of using nolo Dec 31 20:39:28 tell it to load simple program that will start charging Dec 31 20:39:44 you only need like 0.5s worth of charge in battery Dec 31 20:39:48 yeah, that would work if we had such a simple program Dec 31 20:41:24 I hope this bootmenu fiasco isn't in extras Dec 31 20:41:27 some 40 lines of assembler would be sufficient, but we don't have them yet Dec 31 20:42:39 well, alot of dubious sounding crap turns up with apt-cache search boot anyway :) Dec 31 20:42:51 hehehe Dec 31 20:42:58 I bet it does Dec 31 20:43:34 for New_n900_User's case we don't even know which app it's been he installed Dec 31 20:43:48 I really wish it was either fixed or kept out of extras Dec 31 20:44:01 yea sure Dec 31 20:44:18 first identify it Dec 31 20:44:22 all those things that undoubtedly have a "do this or else it bricks" thread on tmo Dec 31 20:44:44 then check if it's really in extras, and if it's really broken or this has been pebkac Dec 31 20:45:35 multiboot for sure should vanish from god's great nets Dec 31 20:46:36 flashing kernel en passant while booting isn't a nice idea Dec 31 20:47:59 it could run out of battery while flashing, user could decide to abort, all sorts of mess can happen and "brick" your device in a blink, when multiboot does those nasty things Dec 31 20:49:10 that's stickly a hack to either thrill or roll up toes' nails of hardcore devels, but never should reach end user Dec 31 20:49:22 strictly* Dec 31 20:50:09 not even in devel Dec 31 20:53:50 DocScrutinizer: i think it will try again Dec 31 20:53:53 DocScrutinizer: on next boot Dec 31 20:54:04 DocScrutinizer: because flashing of kernel is done by nolo Dec 31 20:54:56 if the kernel flashing process gets aborted, you'll end up with a non-booting system that also won't retry to flash kernel Dec 31 20:55:49 how Dec 31 20:55:55 or did I miss some nice little bit? Dec 31 20:55:56 if flashing is done before even kernel boot Dec 31 20:56:05 there could be no kernel at all Dec 31 20:56:13 jacekowski: ??? Dec 31 20:56:15 as in you start flashing from phone Dec 31 20:56:30 what flasher does then is move it somewhere on nand Dec 31 20:56:33 we're talking about autonomous or on-system flashing here Dec 31 20:56:36 and yes Dec 31 20:56:50 then you wipe current kernel from nand Dec 31 20:56:55 and reboot Dec 31 20:56:59 and as far as i know Dec 31 20:57:02 phone will still boot Dec 31 20:57:13 because nolo will see that it's supposed to flash new kernel Dec 31 20:57:15 and will do it Dec 31 20:57:23 wut? Dec 31 20:57:39 all flashing is done by nolo Dec 31 20:57:42 interesting that you're talking about this on new year's eve :) Dec 31 20:57:43 and only by nolo Dec 31 20:57:43 6 minutes to NY Dec 31 20:57:47 nolo just hands through the bytes from flasher Dec 31 20:58:01 yes Dec 31 20:58:27 flasher runs either on your laptop or - here - in a booted up maemo system Dec 31 20:58:39 yes Dec 31 20:58:48 but on system flasher is different Dec 31 20:59:02 if there's no kernel in nand, how is maemo supposed to boot to run flasher? Dec 31 20:59:48 flashing is done by nolo Dec 31 21:00:00 after flasher tells it to flash Dec 31 21:00:26 on system flasher moves kernel to special area that nolo reads on next boot Dec 31 21:00:31 and then does real flashing Dec 31 21:01:19 where is that special area? what's the 'flag' NOLO reads on next boot to know it has to flash kernel from that area? Dec 31 21:01:50 I would guess that kind of information is not disclosed Dec 31 21:02:03 let me get my other laptop out Dec 31 21:02:24 I would guess jacekowski has his own sources of info, when he claims such things Dec 31 21:03:01 * SpeedEvil wonders if jacekowski has a cellar with a secure door. Dec 31 21:05:25 well, I feel like heading out to have a beer and my fair share of madness in the streets Dec 31 21:05:36 Good luck! Dec 31 21:05:43 still 2h left over here Dec 31 21:05:55 DocScrutinizer: I wünsche dir a gutes neues Jahr! Dec 31 21:06:09 ich euch auch :-D Dec 31 21:06:11 (hope I spelled well, the lessons were long ago) Dec 31 21:06:13 :) Dec 31 21:07:29 whoops, typo found Dec 31 21:07:35 DocScrutinizer: ich wünsche dir a gutes neues Jahr! Dec 31 21:07:40 'ich' and not 'I' :P Dec 31 21:53:04 MohammadAG: Regarding fmtx, what does it mean, "I modified it to say off and turn on the FMTX when it's held, but it uses system() so I won't share it." Dec 31 21:53:26 MohammadAG: what is wrong with using system() ? Dec 31 21:53:46 MohammadAG: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=886157&postcount=19 Dec 31 21:54:50 does anyone have a bullet-list with the reasons of 'why ipv6 is better for mobile phones than ipv4'? Discounting the number of addresses. Dec 31 21:55:02 it's... not Dec 31 21:55:13 not??? why not? Dec 31 21:55:41 why? Dec 31 21:57:30 I do not know enough of ipv6 to say it is or it isn't. This is just what I am trying to find out. But everyone from google seems to agree that ipv6 is better. Dec 31 21:57:49 I am assuming it is better and trying to find out why Dec 31 21:57:58 Please don't confuse me further :P Dec 31 22:02:34 ipv6 is needed Dec 31 22:02:50 It is not - in the current state of the internet - better Dec 31 22:03:33 If we were to take away internet access from the stupid people, then the IPV4 address exhaustion problems would be fixed. Dec 31 22:03:55 s/stupid/stupid annoying/ Dec 31 22:03:56 SpeedEvil meant: If we were to take away internet access from the stupid annoying people, then the IPV4 address exhaustion problems would be fixed. Dec 31 22:04:51 Happy New Year! Check out an INCREDIBLE 4096-byte directX9 demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5CTFMuFvb0 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=52938 Dec 31 22:05:18 no Dec 31 22:08:20 SpeedEvil: and that's it? there are no real, deep differences from ipv6 that make it much better to mobiles than ipv4? Dec 31 22:08:26 don't say that, my world will crumble. Dec 31 22:08:52 no Dec 31 22:09:11 ptl: As I understand it, yes, in principle there are features of IPV6 that if implemented widely over the whole internet would be useful for mobiles. Dec 31 22:09:19 ptl: But we're not there yet. Dec 31 22:09:31 do you know at least a couple of these features? Dec 31 22:10:09 Sorry - not doing this now - going to eat chicken. Dec 31 22:10:13 pupnik: nice vid. Dec 31 22:10:19 pupnik: happy new year to you too Dec 31 22:10:42 happy new year to you guys. Here we still have 4 hours to go. :) Dec 31 22:10:50 SpeedEvil: good idea, will do that too.= Dec 31 22:11:42 ptl: google and wikipedia are your friends Dec 31 22:12:23 I swear it, I've tried Dec 31 22:12:37 i am asking here as a last resource Dec 31 22:13:08 Well, almost last resource. If I don't get the answer I'll delve into some long texts to see if I can find it out. Dec 31 22:13:08 ptl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipv6#Comparison_to_IPv4 Dec 31 22:13:44 ptl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipv6#Mobility Dec 31 22:13:51 ptl: it took 1 minute to find these Dec 31 22:14:15 lemme check Dec 31 22:15:31 Venemo: does that mean that one could be able to move between wlan and 3g? Dec 31 22:16:28 BCMM: provided that you have ipv6 and support for this feautre in the 3g network and the wifi network, then in theory yes Dec 31 22:16:47 however I dunno the details. I didn't know about this feaure 5 minutes ago :P Dec 31 22:18:31 Venemo: anyway, there are lots of differences that I knew of, but on this particular page the only thing quoted for mobile advantagens is a small advantage of mobile ipv6 over mobile ipv4: Dec 31 22:18:36 "Unlike mobile IPv4, mobile IPv6 avoids triangular routing and is therefore as efficient as native IPv6. IPv6 routers may also support network mobility which allows entire subnets to move to a new router connection point without renumbering." Dec 31 22:19:08 thanks for the reference. It helped. Dec 31 22:19:39 I am starting to think that there is not really much more than this. Dec 31 22:19:55 presumably, by "triangular routing", they mean that mobile ipv4 has everything going to the device go through a machine with a fixed network location? Dec 31 22:19:58 what makes you think that the other points in the comparison are not advantageous to mobile use cases? Dec 31 22:21:03 the issue of address space has become particularly relevant to mobiles Dec 31 22:21:20 since mobile networks are the ISPs most likely to NAT their networks Dec 31 22:21:37 BCMM: agreed Dec 31 22:21:40 ipv6 would remove that necessity Dec 31 22:21:55 BCMM: my comment was intended to ptl Dec 31 22:22:06 ptl? Dec 31 22:22:15 yes. Dec 31 22:22:22 some say it's a good thing, because you don't waste battery on people scanning your phone, but ipv6 also makes it impractical to scan random addresses Dec 31 22:22:28 [23:16] I am starting to think that there is not really much more than this. ---> this Dec 31 22:22:45 having a botnet scan the entire ipv4 address space is feasible; this will never work with ipv6 Dec 31 22:22:56 :D Dec 31 22:23:04 points: 'larger address space' - the most obvious. but I was asking to 'discount' it. 'multicast' - what is the specific advantage for mobiles? I can't see. 'stateless autoconfiguration' - this one might be a good point of discussion, but it would require special help by using a mobile ipv6 tunnel, isn't it? Dec 31 22:23:08 BCMM: Never say never Dec 31 22:23:26 'mandatory support for network layer security' - doesn't seem to be much advantageous to mobile phones. Dec 31 22:23:47 ptl: so security is not important for phones. right. Dec 31 22:23:48 lol Dec 31 22:23:49 'simplified process by routers' - might help on mobile ipv6, indirectly. Dec 31 22:23:53 I didn't say that Dec 31 22:24:03 I should have mentioned: 'specifically' Dec 31 22:24:07 SpeedEvil: by the time we have colonised enough planets to scratch the surface of the address space, we'll need a more delay-tolerant system that the current internet Dec 31 22:24:20 'options extensibility' and 'jumbograms' - doesn't seem useful. Dec 31 22:24:32 Lemme rephrase my question then: Dec 31 22:24:58 ptl: having your own IP address will be advantageous Dec 31 22:25:09 for a start, video chat will suddenly get much, much simpler Dec 31 22:25:15 are there any features or architecture in ipv6 that can be said to specifically benefit mobile devices, and not so much regular devices like desktop computers and servers? Dec 31 22:25:27 BCMM: but that falls into larger address space Dec 31 22:25:29 yes, I agree Dec 31 22:25:36 ptl: the answer to that is probably no Dec 31 22:27:17 ptl: so far, the address space issue is affecting mobiles worst of all Dec 31 22:27:48 it stateless autoconfiguration used in mobile ipv6? Dec 31 22:27:48 though if we carry on like this, NAT ISPs will become the norm Dec 31 22:29:15 what's wrong with NAT? Dec 31 22:29:57 NAT doesn't allow for listeners unless specifically setup for it Dec 31 22:30:16 practically, it breaks stuff and requires endless working around. philosophically, it makes the internet one-way like a TV Dec 31 22:30:23 and who needs listeners Dec 31 22:30:34 re Dec 31 22:30:39 there are all sorts of reasons to listen to ports Dec 31 22:30:44 * lardman wonders what necroplayer is Dec 31 22:30:50 like anything involving p2p communication Dec 31 22:31:02 Not only that, NAT spoils ICMP and other protocols too. Dec 31 22:31:16 bouncing stuff off some server that is probably in a different country is OK for IM, but terrible for video chat Dec 31 22:31:47 also, you might want to SSH to your phone for any number of reasons Dec 31 22:32:43 UDP does not work reliably with NAT either :P Dec 31 22:32:59 ok, thx :) Dec 31 22:33:06 for many apps, NAT is required to snoop and be invasive Dec 31 22:36:59 nat on mobile phones is a must Dec 31 22:37:09 otherwise you would have all shit on internet sending you crap Dec 31 22:37:15 and your phone would never sleep Dec 31 22:39:35 In principle, some sort of authorisation would also work. Dec 31 22:40:09 So someone could sign packets with a key you've given them, and tehy would be passed by the router Dec 31 22:41:44 my phone works fine w/o NAT Dec 31 22:43:12 it just eats battery like mad Dec 31 22:44:01 yep Dec 31 22:45:51 Speed: that is called "ip addressing scheme" :) Dec 31 22:46:08 I don't get too much traffic from the internet usually Dec 31 22:46:09 Not for your subnet -> you are not getting it Dec 31 22:46:15 Only about twice a month someone tries bruteforce ssh Dec 31 22:46:22 So the TV-out is that supposed to "just work" when I plug the cables in? Or is there somepace I have to turn it on? Dec 31 22:46:22 hehe Dec 31 22:46:37 Should work, but do set pal/ntsc Dec 31 22:46:48 US is NTSC right? Dec 31 22:46:48 Have you managed reflashing poor device? Dec 31 22:46:57 yes, US is NTSC Dec 31 22:46:59 Yes, just recently. Dec 31 22:47:03 cool Dec 31 22:47:15 Hmm, well TV out is not working. Dec 31 22:47:24 And it also seems that sound is only coming from one headphone. Dec 31 22:47:58 wrong cable? Dec 31 22:48:03 I'm beginning to be quite scared that there may be an issue with the headphone jack. Dec 31 22:48:12 It's the one that came with it... Dec 31 22:48:13 use the cable included with the phone Dec 31 22:48:34 I know the iphone ones are not compatible. Dec 31 22:48:38 New_n900_User: just in case, sure the pins are connected in the right order? Dec 31 22:48:44 New_n900_User: i mean, the three plugs Dec 31 22:48:49 Yep Dec 31 22:49:05 yeah, apple uses a basically identical connector, with the pins rearranged because they gotta be different Dec 31 22:49:16 Even if they weren't I should at least get sound or video. I get nothing. Dec 31 22:49:47 the TV out seems to want to see the 75ohm termination Dec 31 22:50:04 meaning? Dec 31 22:51:46 New_n900_User: firmly insert the plug, make sure it's seated completely Dec 31 22:51:59 there's a way to ask the phone what it thinks is in the AV port, isn't there? Dec 31 22:52:04 can't remember it though Dec 31 22:52:11 something dbus or sysfs Dec 31 22:52:50 ysfs Dec 31 22:54:02 I've done that, and even tried pulling it out a bit. Dec 31 22:54:26 Just tried a different pair of headphones too and same issue with sound coming from only one ear. Dec 31 22:54:53 cat /sys/devices/platform/nokia-av/type Dec 31 22:55:08 oh; that really does sound like the port is dodgy Dec 31 22:55:28 also, if you insert the plug slow enough it's possible to confuse the N900 about what got plugged in Dec 31 22:55:30 New_n900_User: Do you appen to have te AV lead - I forget what you said Dec 31 22:55:42 AV lead? Dec 31 22:55:57 I have the AV cables that came with it. Dec 31 22:56:46 do you ave a suitable TV to plug it into? Dec 31 22:56:51 Or audio system? Dec 31 22:57:14 Yes and yes. Dec 31 22:57:25 Just unplugged my wii to plug it in. Dec 31 22:57:45 Also BCMM did you mean for me to run that with the AV cables plugged in? Dec 31 22:58:15 New_n900_User: sorry - do you also get only one channel on the audio plug? Dec 31 22:58:24 on the AV plug Dec 31 23:01:46 Actually I don't get any audio with the AV plug. Dec 31 23:02:14 Let me fool around a bit more might be an issue with the tv sound system being set low somewhere. Dec 31 23:03:49 Hmm, ok getting sound, can't tell if it's one channel or two. Dec 31 23:04:08 I'd like to say one because that would be consistent with the headphones but... Dec 31 23:04:16 Gelukkig Nieuwjaar! Dec 31 23:04:48 Ok, confirmed it's just the right side. Dec 31 23:05:41 (with the AV plug into the TV) Dec 31 23:09:23 New_n900_User: Ok - I'd go with a socket failure then. Dec 31 23:09:37 New_n900_User: I'd phone up nokia care in your country, and see what your position is Dec 31 23:09:47 Hmm, self fix or hope I have a warranty on it? Dec 31 23:10:01 ok Dec 31 23:11:26 I'd be pressing for DOA replacement when it's broken so soon (it might have been broken when you took it out of the box, right?) Dec 31 23:15:16 Well, yeah. But I bought it on ebay. Dec 31 23:15:20 Used. Dec 31 23:15:51 oh :) Dec 31 23:16:11 DOA Dec 31 23:16:14 give it back to seller Dec 31 23:16:14 There's an imei checker on nokia care website somewhere :/ Dec 31 23:16:30 did he mention that problem on auction Dec 31 23:18:15 Grr, so I'm talking to an indian nokia rep who is convinced that the issue is the headset... Dec 31 23:25:10 * Venemo clinks glasses with everyone Dec 31 23:25:39 cheers :D Dec 31 23:26:29 New_n900_User, so you've tried with the original headset, you've tried with TV-out, and hey, if you have some regular headphones, try with those too Dec 31 23:26:35 3 different ones should be enough you'd think :/ Dec 31 23:26:45 original NOKIA headset, good to point out to those ppl :-) Dec 31 23:30:21 ShadowJK, yep, they want to send me a new headset lol Dec 31 23:30:42 And yeah, I've tried with regular headphones too. Dec 31 23:30:46 They don't seem to get that lol Dec 31 23:31:20 So do the headphones work OK in your computer? Dec 31 23:31:28 On a plus side the n900 qualifies me for "preferential service" apparently. Dec 31 23:31:48 you prefer to be raped Dec 31 23:32:59 ShadowJK, haven't tried, but I'd assume so. Dec 31 23:34:01 yep, they work. Dec 31 23:34:06 Pretty good sound quality too. Dec 31 23:36:42 Community SSU now requires PC Suite to complete installation? What's that about - anyone know? Dec 31 23:37:31 I guess I missed community ssu for n900 Dec 31 23:37:55 new year should be floating-point -- so we can do a wave of firecrackers east to west Dec 31 23:39:11 ShadowJK: So far not sure what benefit it serves, all I've had so far are updates to the Community SSU (the most recent now unable to install without also installing PC Suite on a Windows PC)... I thought the Community SSU was supposed to provide updates for the apps. Dec 31 23:39:54 for what apps Dec 31 23:40:00 Modest etc. Dec 31 23:40:09 At least, that's what I thought. Dec 31 23:40:25 I knew there was a N8x0 community ssu Dec 31 23:40:29 didn't know there was a N900 one Dec 31 23:41:28 heh Dec 31 23:41:35 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/63684?nohighlight=1#63684 Dec 31 23:41:58 ah, testing Dec 31 23:42:44 Needless to say, I'll now pass on updating with the latest Community SSU package as it doesn't seem to be providing any actual benefits so far. Or maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick. Dec 31 23:43:19 ShadowJK: Well, that's the first reference I found using my Google-fu. It's not got high visibility, but I'm sure it was discussed on t.m.o somewhere Dec 31 23:46:21 More N900-specific SSU discussion here: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-December/004587.html Dec 31 23:47:25 Buggered if I'll be installing Nokia PC Suite to finish the package install though. Dec 31 23:50:43 Frohes neues Jahr / Happy new year >> http://bravo.hopto.org/~radic/10-11/ Dec 31 23:51:13 N900 asking for PC suite is usually a sign of conflicting packages Dec 31 23:51:34 Yeah, conflicts are all to do with Hildon Dec 31 23:52:12 Summary for the package says "This Maemo update requires Nokia PC Suite on your PC for installation. Connect deive to PC via USB cable blah blah blah" Dec 31 23:53:23 On the "Problems" tab it lists the following packages as missing: hildon-home (>=0.3.71-2), hildon-desktop (>=1:2.2.142-4), hildon-status-menu (>=0.3.40-2) Dec 31 23:53:36 Presumably the Community SSU package is just badly configured? Dec 31 23:54:05 no Dec 31 23:54:17 it's just hildon that requires packages that ssu uninstalls Dec 31 23:54:22 but it has to do it to work Dec 31 23:54:28 so what's the solution? Dec 31 23:54:43 stop using HAM Dec 31 23:54:46 it's slow crap Dec 31 23:54:50 aha... try apt? Dec 31 23:55:04 oh, totally agree with you there Dec 31 23:55:41 I normally use apt, but for ssu and system related updates tend to go the achingly slow HAM route Dec 31 23:56:10 apt isn't for normal users for sure, tends to blow stuff up Dec 31 23:56:21 goodbye guys :) Dec 31 23:56:24 i do hope the app manager in MeeGo will be orders of magnitude better than HAM... Dec 31 23:56:30 night Venemo - happy new year. Dec 31 23:56:55 thanks Milhouse, same to you too Dec 31 23:57:00 Milhouse: it won't Dec 31 23:57:06 Milhouse: try the "faster app manager", or use apt-get Dec 31 23:57:09 Milhouse: it will be based on even worse yum Dec 31 23:57:20 NOOO! Dec 31 23:57:24 Venemo: i have FAP installed also, but that's still quite slow :) Dec 31 23:57:32 jacekowski: don't spread lies Dec 31 23:57:33 jacekowski: That's goint to be a disaster then Dec 31 23:57:40 s/goint/going/ Dec 31 23:57:41 Milhouse meant: jacekowski: That's going to be a disaster then Dec 31 23:57:41 MeeGo doesn't use yum Dec 31 23:57:53 Venom: MeeGo uses Zypper Dec 31 23:58:02 I'm not 'venom', sorry Dec 31 23:58:06 still, it's crap Dec 31 23:58:13 but right, it uses zypper which is faster than yum Dec 31 23:58:16 anyway, byebye Dec 31 23:58:49 Venemo: Sorry :) Jan 01 00:03:28 happy new year everyone. Jan 01 00:04:07 For you too. Although the new year will still take two hours to get there. Jan 01 00:04:11 The apt-get upgrade seemed to go well... I've not got myself updated hildon-home, hildon-desktop and hildon-status-menu... I presume these are courtesy of the Community SSU package that I was maligning. :) Rebooting now... I wonder if there's a changelog? Jan 01 00:04:15 We'll get a new year that has already been used Jan 01 00:04:18 second-hand new year Jan 01 00:04:27 Happy New Year everyone... Jan 01 00:29:24 Ok, so they should be sending me a shipping label and I'll send back my phone. Jan 01 00:29:38 And get it repaired under warranty :) Jan 01 00:32:59 Great! Jan 01 00:33:59 Now does anyone know how to sync gmail contacts? I followed the directions that appear in like 20 different places in the forums (use mail for exchange) and it syncs my google calendar but doesn't bring in any of my contacts. Jan 01 00:45:18 Also in a decently lit room I can barely make out myself from the front camera and the nice 5mp camera takes pictures full of noise even using bless900. Did I miss some config step because I've seen people take beautiful photos with this camera. Jan 01 00:46:29 I'm thinking people probably used night mode, or flash near the target, in less than daylight.. Jan 01 00:47:03 New_n900_User: PR1.0 is sucky Jan 01 00:47:23 New_n900_User: PR1.3 has _lots_ better camera handling, the camera has improved markedly. Jan 01 00:47:31 Unless I'm horribly mistaken I flashed pr1.3 Jan 01 00:47:38 And then there is fcam - whihc can take much longer exposure pics Jan 01 00:47:49 hmm Jan 01 00:47:59 And I've tried fcamera too, still ridiculously high noise. Jan 01 00:48:02 Check te version number Jan 01 00:48:45 20.2010.36-2.002 Jan 01 00:49:59 New_n900_User, try altering the settings and tweaking Jan 01 00:50:35 * lcuk usually sticks in macro mode and disables flash Jan 01 00:50:59 Macro mode? Really? Why? Jan 01 00:51:03 happy new year all btw \o Jan 01 00:51:17 New_n900_User, I take a lot of shots that automatic just doesn't get Jan 01 00:51:25 but macro mode does (short range macro shots) Jan 01 00:51:38 but because of the way macro focus scan works, it does the normal photos too Jan 01 00:51:42 I dont think automatic even considers or tries to focus as near as macro does Jan 01 00:51:51 * lcuk nods Jan 01 00:51:54 and macro atleast fails to focus further out for me Jan 01 00:51:59 i still wish I could focus a few mm closer Jan 01 00:52:13 oh wait it just focused at 1.5m Jan 01 00:52:17 Now which application do you use? Jan 01 00:52:25 I'm using default camera app Jan 01 00:52:28 standard built in software Jan 01 00:52:36 (fcamera has the option to point to a focus point) Jan 01 00:52:51 New_n900_User, the hardware is incapable of focusing on what I want Jan 01 00:53:12 i want to turn on the recording red light and focus on woodgrain when using n900 as a mouse Jan 01 00:53:18 i can see wood grain already Jan 01 00:53:31 so should get some, but any extra focus depth would help the algo Jan 01 00:53:40 you want to use the camera as a sensor for optical mouse? Jan 01 00:53:46 yeah Jan 01 00:53:48 :) Jan 01 00:53:55 its almost feasible Jan 01 00:53:59 Gotcha Jan 01 00:54:11 What exposure settings do you use? Jan 01 00:54:11 it is more than almost feasible Jan 01 00:54:14 you have all you need Jan 01 00:54:16 light Jan 01 00:54:18 and sensor Jan 01 00:54:24 jacekowski, sigh, read my scrollback Jan 01 00:54:29 theres not enough definition Jan 01 00:54:35 i already have the light and almost focus Jan 01 00:54:41 there just isnt enough clarity Jan 01 00:54:57 what's the min. distance for macro on the n900? Jan 01 00:54:58 what about using accelerometer + camera Jan 01 00:55:05 ds3: 5cm Jan 01 00:55:18 build a 5cm spacer? Jan 01 00:55:26 Add a lens Jan 01 00:55:28 ds3 Jan 01 00:55:35 kinda takes away point of the mouse :P Jan 01 00:55:37 Hmm, stuck it on night and it worked great. Jan 01 00:55:49 jacekowski, accel isnt what is wanted Jan 01 00:55:55 but still potential Jan 01 00:56:06 New_n900_User, what kind of flight do you have in the room? Jan 01 00:56:09 logitech made accelerometer based mouse Jan 01 00:56:10 light* Jan 01 00:56:35 ShadowJK: well, night == indoor, more or less Jan 01 00:56:38 an accelerator based mouse with a BT interface could be interesting Jan 01 00:56:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdVqdfFdL3Q start of mouse idea Jan 01 00:56:53 actual stuff for positioning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM Jan 01 00:57:09 ds3, this is different idea again ;) ^^^ Jan 01 00:57:14 * sp3000 somewhat wishes it admitted that and was automatic Jan 01 00:57:15 anyway, happy new year \o gnite Jan 01 00:57:30 question is do you need focus Jan 01 00:57:38 if you only have to detect difference Jan 01 00:57:46 o/ Jan 01 00:57:46 so as long as you see movement Jan 01 00:57:48 lcuk: yes it is. Jan 01 00:57:53 o Jan 01 00:57:54 no Jan 01 00:57:58 that's not going to work Jan 01 00:58:09 jacekowski, theres not enough layers to see it clearly Jan 01 00:58:10 you have to focus if it's plain single colour material Jan 01 00:58:23 just need more definition Jan 01 00:58:27 because of framerate Jan 01 00:58:39 ShadowJK, 2 incandescents Jan 01 00:58:41 at the moment there is about 9 pixels of light/dark clarify Jan 01 00:58:43 clarity Jan 01 00:58:50 New_n900_User, know if they're 40W or what? Jan 01 00:58:55 60w Jan 01 00:58:57 anyway, byeeeeeeeeeeeeee Jan 01 00:59:05 Bye, thanks for all the help. Jan 01 00:59:07 hm wow Jan 01 00:59:22 I'm getting 40 lux beneath my CFL, according to N900 ambient light sensor Jan 01 01:01:00 I'm going to install that really quick. Jan 01 01:01:27 what path is the ALS exposed at? Jan 01 01:01:30 hmm, darn, it's in dev. Jan 01 01:01:38 there's an app? I didn't know Jan 01 01:01:48 I just accessed the sysnode like a linux freak :/ Jan 01 01:01:57 How do you do that? Jan 01 01:02:00 Teach me master. Jan 01 01:02:01 where node? Jan 01 01:02:08 I happen to have an actual light meter here Jan 01 01:02:12 cat /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon1/device/lux Jan 01 01:02:13 comparing would be interesting Jan 01 01:02:22 SpeedEvil, the N900 one is highly directional, fyi Jan 01 01:02:31 or atleast it seems to be Jan 01 01:03:05 * ShadowJK is running it in a loop in x-terminal: while true; do cat /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon1/device/lux ; sleep 1 ; done Jan 01 01:03:44 'watch cat /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon1/device/lux' =) Jan 01 01:03:53 54 Jan 01 01:04:36 That could be worse Jan 01 01:04:45 +-30% Jan 01 01:04:50 Which is quite good Jan 01 01:04:57 Compared to a 'proper' light meter. Jan 01 01:05:11 Quotes as it came from dealextreme.com Jan 01 01:05:15 lol Jan 01 01:05:19 Hey, that's funny. I thought the two little holes housed the ALS Jan 01 01:05:46 So now my big issues are getting smscon working and gmail contacts import then I back it up and I'm done fooling for a while. Jan 01 01:05:47 But ALS reading goes to 0 when I cover display side camera Jan 01 01:06:31 actually none of this is making sense Jan 01 01:06:59 Oh, I get it. It's above the camera Jan 01 01:07:04 never noticed that before.. Jan 01 01:07:22 ShadowJK: Have you considered that it's a fundamentally insane universe, and almost none of it makes sense? Jan 01 01:07:28 wow there's an entire hole on my N900 I haven't noticed before Jan 01 01:07:36 and neither did the people who made my screen protector Jan 01 01:07:46 haha Jan 01 01:08:09 So does no one here sync their google contacts? Jan 01 01:08:23 well i dont have google contacts, so no Jan 01 01:08:46 Hmm, thought every moderate geek did. ;-) Jan 01 01:08:55 218792 Lux <- beat that Jan 01 01:09:02 WHAT THE HECK!? Jan 01 01:09:05 I'm too old Jan 01 01:09:28 I shone my new 1xAA flashlight at the light sensor :-) Jan 01 01:11:17 130000 lux is about noonday sun Jan 01 01:15:44 oh... Jan 01 01:15:51 I should probably no longer stare into this thing then Jan 01 01:18:16 Well good night man. Thanks for the help. Jan 01 01:24:07 Just in case anyone happens upon these logs with the same issue as me: creating a new contact on your phone and then syncing will import all of the google contacts. Jan 01 01:42:25 New_n900_User: yeah but then once u populate the user details with IM contact and stuff its stops syncing again Jan 01 02:39:32 why does the Sym meny stop working sometimes? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 01 02:59:58 2011