**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 01 02:59:58 2011 Jan 01 03:28:17 good morning Jan 01 05:19:46 i think the dosbox thread must be one of the oldest on t.m.o :) 06-04-07... Jan 01 05:26:10 Post your N900 temperature Jan 01 05:26:14 ha Jan 01 05:26:22 isn't the sensor broken? Jan 01 05:30:00 what does /proc/cpuinfo give you for bogomips MohammadAG ? Jan 01 05:30:44 BogoMIPS : 249.96 Jan 01 05:31:08 ok so it's 1:1 mhz Jan 01 05:31:19 that's nice and simple Jan 01 06:04:46 is maemo nice? Jan 01 08:44:43 hello Jan 01 08:45:01 7292 pupnik 20 0 27596 13m 3448 S 66.0 5.5 1:01.42 snes9x 1786 root 20 0 21752 11m 5520 R 33.0 4.7 15:32.87 Xorg Jan 01 08:45:06 meh! Jan 01 08:48:07 is there some other way to download images than http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php ? Jan 01 08:48:29 jave, probably not Jan 01 08:48:34 what is wrong with that one method? Jan 01 08:49:26 too slow in thailand Jan 01 08:51:44 so I was going to download 1st to a swedish server, but that was not possiblle Jan 01 08:53:07 why not? Jan 01 08:55:31 because of a stupid browser protectgon scheme Jan 01 08:56:49 I can work around it, its just tedious Jan 01 09:49:58 best wishes to you all Jan 01 09:51:03 and may 2011 bring some opening of the phone screens by nokia that would be fun :p Jan 01 09:51:48 I've got my N900 completely apart, and I see three little gold-colored antenna-connectors; two on the lcd-side of the board, and one on the front/back-cover side. Are these for testing? Jan 01 09:52:59 http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900/images/n900_11.jpeg upper-left, follow the pcb-trace from the two connectors at the corner Jan 01 09:53:23 there are plenty of hw related topics in the wiki ... read em Jan 01 09:54:49 a lot of pages from joerg contain fine details about chips, how they work together and which does what ... Jan 01 09:57:11 Fair enough; I'm not even sure what the antenna-points would be -called-, let alone what to look for Jan 01 10:00:47 amazing how small these computers are... amazing Jan 01 10:03:57 Yup Jan 01 10:04:16 And when you realise that the computer itself is smaller than your fingernail... Jan 01 10:08:57 once we made a ~15 GB music server at the office. now it fits on a microsd Jan 01 10:18:01 ...That's honestly kind of sad. We have open hardware, datasheets on just about everything, the N900's incredibly easy to disassemble... Yet no hardware mods after a year? Jan 01 10:20:24 like what Jan 01 10:20:31 adding a... Jan 01 10:21:12 I dunno... Improved antennas would be easily possible, digital compass... Jan 01 10:24:04 It would be trivial to install an external Cell-antenna port for one of those large range-extender antennas Jan 01 10:24:50 I would have -expected- some mods of -any- sort; you see them for other, more locked-down devices commonly enough Jan 01 10:29:52 RobbieThe1st: the hardware hackers seem to go for more hackable hardware Jan 01 10:30:04 ..Like? Jan 01 10:30:49 beagleboard Jan 01 10:31:04 and that was two years ago Jan 01 10:32:08 Oh, that reminds me - I was thinking of getting a BT -> RS232 adaptor(SPP profile). Would it work? Would I need a custom kernel module? Jan 01 10:47:52 Huh, that's interesting: "When the battery cover is removed, the [magnetic] sensor sends an interrupt to OMAP and both memory cards are powered down". I thought it was only the SD card... Jan 01 10:53:04 morning Jan 01 10:53:12 and a happy new year of course Jan 01 10:55:55 Morning Jan 01 11:02:55 hi RobbieThe1st, I guess everyone else is busy coding killer apps, or eating bacon, or out for a New Year's stroll Jan 01 11:03:11 Probably Jan 01 11:03:16 :) Jan 01 11:11:24 the term "killer app" always makes me cringe Jan 01 11:11:50 like "cyberspace" Jan 01 11:27:47 jaska: :) well you know what I mean, and with everyone developing them this morning I guess we'll have to get used to the term too ;) Jan 01 11:28:01 or they may all be eating bacon of course Jan 01 11:28:42 http://www.sondrak.com/archive/skpics2/ham_on_bed.jpg Jan 01 11:28:58 hmm Jan 01 11:29:04 perhaps too much there Jan 01 11:30:55 somehow less appetizing in that amount Jan 01 11:31:55 can someone help out: i compiled some kernel modules, inserting them via insmod gives me "invalid module format" Jan 01 11:32:34 moo all Jan 01 11:32:48 lardman: touchscreen reconsidered its behaviour? =) Jan 01 11:32:49 the wiki says that there could be a version mismatch between sdks kernel headers and running kernel Jan 01 11:33:00 tried Jan 01 11:33:01 objcopy --strip-debug \ Jan 01 11:33:03 -R .modinfo -R __versions hello.ko Jan 01 11:33:10 RST38h: it started working again yesterday evening, as if nothing had been wrong Jan 01 11:33:49 happy new year maemo Jan 01 11:34:09 RST38h: am a bit wary now that it might fail again at any moment Jan 01 11:34:14 happy new year crashanddie Jan 01 11:35:11 BluesLee: correct ARCH for your compilation? Jan 01 11:36:57 lardman: in .config: CONFIG_ARM=y Jan 01 11:37:57 did the instructions not tell you to set ARCH as an env var too? Jan 01 11:38:18 I guess there are different ways to compile, /me only knows the way he learned years ago Jan 01 11:39:00 lardman: i used http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide#Compiling_External_Kernel_Modules Jan 01 11:39:56 lardman: sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL + modifying .config + "make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules" Jan 01 11:40:23 ok Jan 01 11:40:50 correct path to kernel headers? Jan 01 11:40:55 lardman: how can i check if there is a kind of mismatch? Jan 01 11:41:02 another thing I just read while googling was gcc version change Jan 01 11:41:18 Hehehehehe: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67738 Jan 01 11:41:28 [Join Date: Sep 2010] Jan 01 11:41:30 I really don't know, but if you enable debugging you might see more output in dmesg I suppose Jan 01 11:42:41 lardman: dmesg gives me "no symbol version for struct_module" so i guess there is a slight mismatch between the headers used and the kernel running on my n900 Jan 01 11:43:28 lardman: i only have little knowledge on that stuff, try and error + google:-) Jan 01 11:43:40 lardman: thanx anyways Jan 01 11:44:27 BluesLee: well at least that's a starting point :) Jan 01 11:47:57 RST38h: well he might have a fair point, being able to remove apps would be good, and imo integrating the rating and comments stuff in HAM (or whatever replacement) would be useful Jan 01 11:48:28 lardman: Nobody is integrating anything into HAM. Jan 01 11:49:01 lardman: And even if someone did, do you really expect useful ratings/comments from these people? Jan 01 11:50:57 well yeah I think in general one would get ratings and comments that reflect the usecases of the general populace Jan 01 11:51:20 but I know noone is integrating things in HAM, no point as it will be gone soonish (I hope) Jan 01 11:51:26 general population has no usecases for 90% of the current n900 software Jan 01 11:51:42 true, in which case they won't install and rate presumable Jan 01 11:51:46 general population sucks Jan 01 11:51:49 but he's moaning about game emulators Jan 01 11:51:49 lardman: Oh they will Jan 01 11:52:04 lardman: "Useless crap, could not get it working, thumb down' Jan 01 11:52:16 kerio: yep, but these things are supposed to appeal to them eventually, can't be a devs only party forever Jan 01 11:52:44 RST38h: in which case we should have a special section for devs only with a secret 3 finger salute to enable it and stop the plebs getting in ;) Jan 01 11:53:00 lardman: Actually, see my reponse to him. =) Jan 01 11:53:19 * RST38h is being very positive today, probably because of the festive mood Jan 01 11:53:24 but I do think that in general integrating reviews/comments/ratings in the application manager, whatever it is, would be useful Jan 01 11:53:32 yes Jan 01 11:53:44 In fact, there is a handmade app manager or two in extras-devel that do that Jan 01 11:53:57 none of them worked for me well enough to keep them though Jan 01 11:55:26 ah, so some of the apps are in extras-devel anyway, which brings us full circle to ask why lots of apps don't make it (or bother in my case so far) to Extras Jan 01 11:56:18 Heh, the lemming actually took my suggestion seriously :) Jan 01 11:56:54 * RST38h will revisit this thread in a few days and ask the originator about the progress of his repository creation Jan 01 11:57:17 lardman: We both know why they are not making it. Jan 01 11:57:31 well that's exactly what we wanted to avoid, it would be better for him to disable extras-devel and encourage people to fix apps and push them to extras proper Jan 01 11:57:54 lardman: Except he will never do that. Jan 01 11:58:07 the problem now is that so many people have extras-devel enabled, that there's not much point in jumping through hoops to push to extras Jan 01 11:58:30 RST38h: of course, but I don't really want the bad old days of multiple repos to spring up again Jan 01 11:58:32 lardman: He wants people to give him free quality stuff. He is not interested in paying anything back, even if it is just a few words Jan 01 11:58:51 yep Jan 01 11:58:52 lardman: and his name is , of course, legion Jan 01 12:01:13 * lardman wanders off to get some caffeine Jan 01 12:09:29 anyone know the difference between a QCompass and a QMagnetometer? Jan 01 12:11:36 javispedro really put a lot of work into drnoksnes Jan 01 12:11:52 well, compared to what i do Jan 01 12:12:15 Quick question guys - does the n900 support the SPP bluetooth profile? Jan 01 12:13:38 not out of the box Jan 01 12:14:38 What's needed? I'm looking to, say, transmit and receive ascii data over bluetooth->serial... Jan 01 12:16:21 probably requires a userspace program for it Jan 01 12:16:33 lardman: I think the only difference is the way the results are presented Jan 01 12:16:40 but I may be wrong, ask VDVsx Jan 01 12:16:56 magnetometer returns magnetic flux in x y and z directions of a three axis magnetometer, the compass returns angles Jan 01 12:17:08 But the backend would work without trouble? Jan 01 12:17:23 assuming I can find a proper program(minicom?) Jan 01 12:18:16 Aand, I answered my own question. Jan 01 12:26:09 pH5: cool, thanks Jan 01 12:34:19 hi everyone happy yr Jan 01 12:35:46 can the flash utility back EVERYTHING completely up, so that i can try reflash, and afterwards return EVERYTHING to my backup? Jan 01 12:35:50 as in both root and emmc and all shit Jan 01 12:41:14 No; you'll have to wait for it to redownload all packages Jan 01 12:41:26 And, of course, it doesn't back up any user files. Jan 01 12:42:07 You can try with BackupMenu (In extras-devel); it'll backup rootfs and optfs images, though you'll still have to manually copy all your files from MyDocs and your SD card. Jan 01 12:42:26 Now, I'm off. Bye all. Jan 01 12:44:27 * alterego stumbles in Jan 01 12:47:01 hey alterego Jan 01 12:49:24 Hey :) Jan 01 12:49:32 Happy 2011 Jan 01 12:51:32 alterego, happy new year to you to :) Jan 01 12:51:40 * lardman passes alterego some painkillers Jan 01 12:53:40 Thanks ;) Jan 01 12:53:49 I'm alright tbh, which is suprising Jan 01 12:54:56 Just hungry Jan 01 12:57:12 * alterego has a bath Jan 01 12:57:26 and catch up on tmo Jan 01 12:57:58 "Elop said N9 is a 2011 event, it's 2011, where is it?!?!" Jan 01 12:58:01 Classic Jan 01 12:59:33 alterego, yeah that's just the same stuff rehashed Jan 01 13:00:19 alterego, personally I'm taking interest in the fight between Mr. power-kernel and Mr. open-source-forced-donation-injection-driver-man Jan 01 13:01:09 ? Jan 01 13:01:13 what is a problem? Jan 01 13:01:24 I think that was some lemming's attempt at humor Jan 01 13:01:42 Heh Jan 01 13:01:44 Yes, it [unsurprisingly] backfired. Jan 01 13:02:42 jacekowski, Mr. power-kernel doesn't like that Mr. open-source-forced-donation-injection-driver-man is forcing donations to get binary and source now that he is releasing it outside of the scope of Neopwn Jan 01 13:03:25 who is mr power-kernel? Jan 01 13:03:33 Sorry but how can he FORCE donations? Jan 01 13:03:47 donate or i will kill teh kitten Jan 01 13:04:01 He should release it into mainline kernel if it's that good. Jan 01 13:04:05 Which I think is actually illegal. He performed work for an employer, just because he didn't get paid doesn't mean he has the IP rights Jan 01 13:04:12 apparently that's what he'd trying to do Jan 01 13:04:20 jacekowski, Titan or whatever Jan 01 13:04:40 Oh, well, I'll just wait then. Jan 01 13:04:40 Ok, kill the kitten, make a video,upload to youtube Jan 01 13:04:50 ~seen ttan Jan 01 13:04:53 i haven't seen 'ttan', jacekowski Jan 01 13:04:54 ~seen t-tan Jan 01 13:04:54 t-tan <~tanner@e179094244.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 203d 17h 20m 47s ago, saying: 'smoking hot device?'. Jan 01 13:05:22 alterego: you still here? Jan 01 13:05:33 RST38h, there is no problem with someone else giving it away for free. But the guy who wrote the code is only giving it out if you donate Jan 01 13:05:44 heh Jan 01 13:05:49 https://sites.google.com/site/alexystems/vulnerabilidades-web/n900-injection-packets Jan 01 13:05:56 1) What is the license on this code? Jan 01 13:06:10 GPL Jan 01 13:06:14 lardman: I never leave! Jan 01 13:06:17 and it's perfectly legal to do so Jan 01 13:06:22 on gpl Jan 01 13:06:23 jacekowski, ah looks like its already out in the open then :p Jan 01 13:06:33 well, some people are just dickheads Jan 01 13:06:40 and that's why GPL sucks Jan 01 13:06:44 141mb? WTF? Jan 01 13:06:53 sources Jan 01 13:06:55 2) Has he made sources available? Jan 01 13:07:05 RST38h: to people that donated Jan 01 13:07:09 If it's GPL can people that have donated distribute sources? Jan 01 13:07:15 they can Jan 01 13:07:16 Yes. Jan 01 13:07:19 Heh Jan 01 13:07:20 but it's being dickheads Jan 01 13:07:20 alterego, of course Jan 01 13:07:23 alterego: just wondering about that compass slider, is it 100pix wide? Jan 01 13:07:28 So, let one of them distribute the sources, case closed. Jan 01 13:07:31 the GPL sucks Jan 01 13:07:40 RST38h: quite Jan 01 13:07:40 lardman: more like 280px Jan 01 13:07:54 wait 380 Jan 01 13:08:03 It's half the width of the screen. Jan 01 13:08:08 Besides, I somehow suspect this "cool" wl1251 driver is just something he compiled from the sources already avalilable in other projects Jan 01 13:08:15 alterego: ok, will have to sit down and draw it to work out what all the number in there are doing! ;) Jan 01 13:08:19 Did he do ANY original work at all? Jan 01 13:08:20 jacekowski, 141mb for sources, the whole kernel tree isn't even that big compressed Jan 01 13:08:22 bbiam, have to pop to the shop Jan 01 13:08:34 hi. I want to reset my Nokia N900 to default settings, except that I want PR1.2 (not 1.3) and want to keep my documents intact. Is it possible? Jan 01 13:09:48 wireless-testing.tar.bz2 │ 71915K│ Jan 01 13:09:55 that's a big part of it Jan 01 13:10:00 kerio: yes it does Jan 01 13:12:11 RST38h: all of patches are his own Jan 01 13:14:20 bbiab Jan 01 13:14:35 I still contend that, while he WROTE them, he doesn't not own the copyright for the patches Jan 01 13:14:42 doesn't own* Jan 01 13:14:49 he does Jan 01 13:15:12 He has explicitly stated it is the work he did for Neopwn Jan 01 13:15:24 but he never got paid as far as i know Jan 01 13:15:30 Work done for an employer is automatically the employer's work Jan 01 13:15:35 no Jan 01 13:15:36 jacekowski, it doesn't matter Jan 01 13:15:40 they may own financial rights Jan 01 13:15:50 but copyrights remain with person that wrote it Jan 01 13:15:59 that's not the case at all Jan 01 13:16:09 it is Jan 01 13:16:21 neopwn person can't legally write that he made that driver Jan 01 13:16:28 even though he paid for it Jan 01 13:16:41 ( except he didn't ) Jan 01 13:17:03 but he can sell it and do everything else with it Jan 01 13:17:17 assuming that we ignore GPL problem for now Jan 01 13:17:27 It doesn't matter whether he paid for it or not, the work was written under an employment agreement between him and Neopwn Jan 01 13:17:36 Therefore Neopwn holds the rights Jan 01 13:17:43 no Jan 01 13:17:49 copyright law isn't that simple Jan 01 13:17:50 The remedy for the situation is for the guy to sue Neopwn for a breach of contract Jan 01 13:18:01 Typically no pay, no transferral of rights. Jan 01 13:18:47 Copyright is a set of exclusive rights granted by the law of a jurisdiction to the author or creator of an original work4 Jan 01 13:19:16 and then little bit further down is that you can only sell your financial rights Jan 01 13:19:20 distribution rights Jan 01 13:19:31 which is part of it Jan 01 13:19:45 but whoever buys it is still not allowed that it's his work Jan 01 13:20:23 jacekowski, your completely wrong, IMO, at least by Australian law. Jan 01 13:20:43 well i don't care about australia Jan 01 13:20:44 Even submission of work to a University is work done for a University and they then have the rights to it Jan 01 13:20:54 You're also wrong by US law. Jan 01 13:20:59 yes they have right to do whatever they want Jan 01 13:21:07 except to say that THEY made it Jan 01 13:21:44 otherwise you wouldn't even be able to say in cv that you made that sort of thing Jan 01 13:21:50 Europe has some crazy "Moral Rights" crap. Jan 01 13:21:55 without breaching copyright Jan 01 13:22:03 Which is I think what jacekowski is trying to talk about. Jan 01 13:22:58 copyright is transferrable in all western jurisdictions that i've read about Jan 01 13:23:39 Moral rights are not actually the same thing as copyright. Jan 01 13:23:47 But the "right of attribution" is one of them. Jan 01 13:23:59 it's part of bernce convention Jan 01 13:24:02 and US signed it Jan 01 13:24:25 Visual Artists Rights Act Jan 01 13:24:26 The Visual Artists Rights Act of 1990 (VARA) recognizes moral rights, but only as they apply to works of visual art. The VARA is part of Title 17, the U.S. Copyright Code. Jan 01 13:24:34 VARA gives qualifying authors the following rights: Jan 01 13:24:34 right to claim authorship Jan 01 13:24:35 right to prevent the use of one's name on any work the author did not create Jan 01 13:24:58 Fine, you retain that right to say you made it. But it doesn't give you redistribution rights Jan 01 13:25:00 In the US, moral rights can be waived, and any copyright transfer agreement you ever see will do so. Jan 01 13:25:02 jacekowski: < jacekowski> but copyrights remain with person that wrote it <<< this is where you slipped up Jan 01 13:25:10 So effectively we have no such thing. Jan 01 13:25:17 well, names Jan 01 13:25:25 i'm not so familiar with that area of law Jan 01 13:25:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights_(copyright_law)#Worldwide_situation Jan 01 13:25:59 and according to this table Jan 01 13:26:05 australia has something like that as well Jan 01 13:27:24 i think copyright is immoral, but that's a much wider topic :) Jan 01 13:27:36 When you perform work for someone, you transfer rights of usage, copying, modification, redistribution etc. Jan 01 13:27:52 Just because you can say you made it, that means nothing - especially for the situation Jan 01 13:28:12 thing is what if it's work on GPLed code Jan 01 13:28:22 It doesn't matter Jan 01 13:28:47 well, if code is on GPL, then code is free for everyone Jan 01 13:28:52 You are not distributing to a third party Jan 01 13:29:00 i want to run a handful of android apps within an execution environment under linux :/ Jan 01 13:29:08 let me ask on debian-legal Jan 01 13:29:10 The GPL even outlines this for cases of eg. businesses Jan 01 13:29:34 If you put GPL software on all your business computers, you do not need to give employees the code Jan 01 13:30:03 It is not redistribution as defined by the GPL Jan 01 13:36:23 but surely they can ask for the code? Jan 01 13:36:58 or do they not have that right because they are employees Jan 01 13:36:59 ? Jan 01 13:37:32 lardman, they can ask, but they don't have to be given it Jan 01 13:37:47 fair enough Jan 01 13:38:21 Internal distribution is not covered by the GPL's distribution clauses Jan 01 13:42:05 jacekowski, lardman - GPL FAQ says it itself - http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic Jan 01 13:42:07 "You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization." Jan 01 13:42:18 ok Jan 01 13:43:00 Weird, I didn't think the GPL allowed that. Jan 01 13:43:28 Even if customers use the machines. Jan 01 13:43:37 So, it's only when you're making something that you sell with GPLd software that you have to supply sources if people request right? Jan 01 13:44:00 SpeedEvil: question or statement? Jan 01 13:44:14 ah I see Jan 01 13:44:39 alterego, sell? No. If you distribute it to someone that is not a part of your organisation ("the public"), you have to provide sources Jan 01 13:44:44 apart* Jan 01 13:44:51 Ah, m'kay. Jan 01 13:45:01 Well, that's sort of what I meant. Jan 01 13:45:27 statement Jan 01 13:45:28 I was talking in terms of some fictional product, like say, the N9 :) Jan 01 13:45:40 Anyway, I'll bbs - going to go take a shower. Jan 01 13:45:53 You should, you smell like a yeti Jan 01 13:47:12 * SpeedEvil wonders if distribution includes leaving it on the train. Jan 01 13:47:29 Heh Jan 01 13:49:42 * alterego sighs Jan 01 13:50:04 Now to work out why the HOME environment variable is screwing with liblocation in my app. Jan 01 13:53:39 I'm trying to reflash a bricked n900 Jan 01 13:54:30 ~flashing Jan 01 13:54:30 somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 01 13:55:43 I'm not sure about the battery charge Jan 01 13:56:39 can I try anyway? Jan 01 13:57:17 Just wondering... Has anyone ever tried to use pulseaudio on n900 as client and laptop as server, and then broadcast the sound from laptop (via pulse) over FM? Jan 01 13:58:35 nice project idea for a gui applet Wizzup Jan 01 13:59:01 I'll have to get it work first anyway... :p Jan 01 14:02:04 back Jan 01 14:02:29 SpeedEvil, I assume it's the same situation of someone stealing it from you - no. Jan 01 14:07:35 Hilarious, Jan 01 14:07:41 Now run-standalone.sh is causing problems. Jan 01 14:12:39 This is pathetic :/ Jan 01 14:12:53 And I'm not clever enough to debug it :'( Jan 01 14:13:03 hi! anyone using Pidgin on the N900? it happens quite often that it keeps running in the background without any way to switch to it... :| Jan 01 14:13:21 Termana: yeah, that's correct Jan 01 14:13:26 Lori: status bar applet? Jan 01 14:13:31 Termana: but is employer allowed to take source code with him Jan 01 14:14:47 Wizzup: there are ready made fm transmitters that you just stick into your network card Jan 01 14:14:52 Wizzup: sound card* Jan 01 14:15:09 hi all, I am having trouble installing some packages on my N900 Jan 01 14:15:19 alterego: you have to install it separately? there is nothing in the status bar by default Jan 01 14:15:22 I would like to install GCC, the man pages and some stuff Jan 01 14:15:39 funto: not enough space on the phone for that Jan 01 14:15:41 Lori: oh, dunno t hen Jan 01 14:15:44 ~then .. Jan 01 14:15:56 I don't use Pidgin on the N900, try asking on tmo Jan 01 14:16:03 but I get "Package XXX is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source" Jan 01 14:16:16 alterego: ok, thanks Jan 01 14:16:18 I googled but did not find anything interesting... Jan 01 14:16:44 jacekowski: really? the phone has quite a lot of space... Jan 01 14:16:54 funto: not in the / filesystem. Jan 01 14:17:08 funto: which is where gcc, manpages, headers etc will get installed. Jan 01 14:17:19 jacekowski, in terms of if the employee is severed or what not? Yes, the employer retains the rights transferred and takes them with him, they don't get transferred back. Jan 01 14:17:32 Termana: that's gpl code Jan 01 14:17:45 ok...:/ Jan 01 14:18:00 hmmm Jan 01 14:18:30 so what is gpl status on patches Jan 01 14:18:36 as in i supply patches for gpl code Jan 01 14:18:37 funto: you might be able to download the packages and install them into /opt though Jan 01 14:18:50 not including gpl code itself Jan 01 14:18:54 funto: but you'd have to manually decompress them there and fix gcc's search paths. Jan 01 14:19:00 are patches gpled in that case Jan 01 14:19:34 jacekowski: see the derivitave work clauses Jan 01 14:19:40 alterego: using dpkg -i ? So we could decide where to install the packages with some options for dpkg? Jan 01 14:19:43 jacekowski, no, even if they were included in the whole source it wouldn't matter. Jan 01 14:20:14 funto: no, using dpkg -x package.deb /opt/mygcc Jan 01 14:20:16 or something Jan 01 14:20:22 It is still internal distribution and the rights for the code written is still held by the employer Jan 01 14:21:05 Termana: i'm talking about something else Jan 01 14:21:13 alterego: ok thanks Jan 01 14:21:24 Termana: like i'm independent developer and i want to make some cash on developing drivers for device Jan 01 14:21:27 s* Jan 01 14:22:11 jacekowski, are you asking if the patch is automatically GPL'ed? If that's the case no. Jan 01 14:22:36 Yay, fixed it. Jan 01 14:22:40 (Hopefully) Jan 01 14:22:40 hmm, so technicaly person that posted that package violated his copyright Jan 01 14:23:36 when you tap on the screen, does one get a QEvent button value of Qt::LeftButton ? Jan 01 14:23:37 jacekowski, if the guy still withheld the rights, he has placed the patches under GPL anyway, so no Jan 01 14:24:23 are you sure patches i gpled Jan 01 14:24:42 i don't see anywhere that it is gples Jan 01 14:24:44 gpled* Jan 01 14:24:58 However, I believe 1) the guy has infringed on the rights held by Neopwn and 2) Any further distribution by anyone else is a violation of rights held by Neopwn as well Jan 01 14:25:10 jacekowski, I can only go on what he said in the thread Jan 01 14:25:44 I haven't examined the patches or the folder containing the patches etc. Jan 01 14:25:45 jacekowski: Probably, but I want to do it with pulseaudio Jan 01 14:25:45 well, i believe he never got paid for a job Jan 01 14:25:53 jacekowski, it doesn't matter Jan 01 14:25:54 and therefore it's breach of contract Jan 01 14:25:58 right Jan 01 14:26:07 But that doesn't make the contract void Jan 01 14:26:13 and his copyrights were never transfered in first place Jan 01 14:27:09 I cant bring my n900 into usb mode Jan 01 14:27:17 Any donation he accepts he can be sued for by Neopwn for damages. Jan 01 14:27:46 He is able to sue Neopwn for breach of contract for not paying him Jan 01 14:27:59 depends on contract terms Jan 01 14:28:20 if contract clearly stated that he pays at specific date or something Jan 01 14:28:49 I assume it was mostly probably a verbal agreement, "Write this for me and I'll pay you $X" Jan 01 14:30:07 * alterego contemplates how to store his waypoints Jan 01 14:30:12 I think a database. Jan 01 14:30:42 verbal agreements are always a terrible idea if money is involved Jan 01 14:32:49 BCMM, agreed. Verbal agreements are in fact bad for anything you care about. If you care about it, if it is important - get it in clear writing with all the nooks and crannies decided, so that something doesn't come back to bite you Jan 01 14:33:56 never mind nooks and crannies; whether there ever was an agreement will become an issue Jan 01 14:34:17 somebody who doesn't want a written agreement is either trying to rip you off, or is stupid, in which case they may well forget about the agreement Jan 01 14:34:22 Termana: and thing is that neopwn released binary drivers Jan 01 14:34:40 Termana: gpled binary drivers with no source Jan 01 14:35:56 jacekowski, yes, and he can be sued by kernel developers of which the work has been specifically derived from Jan 01 14:36:04 (Neopwn) Jan 01 14:36:16 (Newpwn can be sued by kernel developers) Jan 01 14:40:44 Also by the guy that did the coding Jan 01 14:42:33 SpeedEvil, we already mentioned breach of contract. The guy who did the coding can't sue for copyright violation Jan 01 14:43:05 no, he can sue for breach of contract. Jan 01 14:43:50 You mean like I just said he could? :p Jan 01 14:44:23 Also, as I understand it, the copyright has to be explicitly assigned in terms of contracts, it's unlikely it passed in this case, especially with lack of payment Jan 01 14:47:28 SpeedEvil, I don't believe that interpretation to be correct. For instance, going back to the University situation, performing work at the request of the University and submitting it automatically confers the right (besides the point that most Universities here actually waive this and you do keep the copyright) Jan 01 14:47:50 It is not explicitly written anywhere Jan 01 14:48:22 It's not something you agree to, it is just what happens Jan 01 14:48:23 There is wording to that effect in the agreement you sign that binds you to agree to the rules of the university. Jan 01 14:48:34 Or rather - it's part of the rules of the university. Jan 01 14:48:36 Well I don't think pulseaudio will be any good. The version on n900 is too old and incompatible with upstream versions Jan 01 14:48:37 At least here. Jan 01 14:48:42 Perhaps gstreamer can help... Jan 01 15:07:34 is it possible to remove Garage projects? Jan 01 15:08:04 Is the mediaplayer open source? Jan 01 15:08:31 Wizzup: no Jan 01 15:08:45 But there are people working on a complete FOSS implementation. Jan 01 15:08:47 Well, Happy New Year, kids. Jan 01 15:08:50 Which is coming on extremely well. Jan 01 15:08:55 Happy new year GAN900 :) Jan 01 15:09:06 GAN900: is this the year you move to Android? Jan 01 15:10:06 alterego, good god no. Jan 01 15:10:14 :) Jan 01 15:10:25 I forget, do you actually have an iPhone? Jan 01 15:10:35 My sister in law is getting one next week -_- Jan 01 15:10:38 There are several spares in the house, yes. Jan 01 15:10:44 alterego: I see. I was looking on how they used the radio transmitter. :-) Jan 01 15:10:55 Tried one for a couple days when my September proto died. Jan 01 15:11:03 Wizzup: should be quite well documented have a search around the wiki. Jan 01 15:11:03 Wanted to put my eyes out. Jan 01 15:11:07 Heh Jan 01 15:11:15 Really don't see the appeal. Jan 01 15:11:24 GAN900: ++ Jan 01 15:11:24 alterego: I can find the hardware article, not so much on programmer API's. Jan 01 15:11:32 It's nice, if all you want is smooth flawless transitions between fart apps. Jan 01 15:11:36 Apart from a d-bus description Jan 01 15:11:41 I mean, it's pretty and all that Jan 01 15:11:46 usability is generally high Jan 01 15:11:56 it's not completely bug-ridden Jan 01 15:12:02 But it just isn't useful. Jan 01 15:12:07 Sure, well, I dunno, I think the iP4 looks uncomfortable to hold. Jan 01 15:12:12 Like a pane of thick glass. Jan 01 15:12:25 The whole one-thing-at-a-time way of working is incredibly limiting. Jan 01 15:12:38 how about the app manager warnings about which privacy components apps compromise? Jan 01 15:12:39 * Wizzup will learn more video for linux Jan 01 15:12:51 Yeah, that'd piss me off. Jan 01 15:13:00 Even the homebrew is monetized. Jan 01 15:13:26 Wizzup: if you want to stream video to the n900 check out "knots2" Jan 01 15:13:54 one-thing-at-a-time may be useful for people who can't think of more than that though. Jan 01 15:14:11 pupnik, I want to stream my own sounds over the FM transmitter. Preferrably sounds from other machines (but pulseaudio is incompatible) so I'll try http or gstreamer Jan 01 15:14:25 SpeedEvil, indeed. Jan 01 15:14:55 Most people seem to like it because it's better than everything that can before it Jan 01 15:15:03 and it doesn't require them to think. Jan 01 15:17:24 Well, I like Symbian, where multitasking is there but most users don't even realise that they've left all their apps open. Jan 01 15:17:46 Unlike Maemo/MeeGo, where your tasks are unmissable. Jan 01 15:17:56 wel, maemo way is annoying Jan 01 15:17:59 well* Jan 01 15:19:08 What do you find so annoying about it? Jan 01 15:19:17 what's that trick where you give someone ssh access to your box and can watch what they type on the console / terminal? Jan 01 15:19:32 I quite like it, though I wish that the "dashboard" would only appear when you click on a special dashboard icon. Jan 01 15:19:51 So you have direct access to the app menu without having to transition through the dashboard. Jan 01 15:19:55 But that's just me. Jan 01 15:20:50 I like the dashboard so much I find firefox and opera tabs annoying :-) Jan 01 15:23:08 Heh Jan 01 15:23:27 Do you seriously use Opera and Fennec that much? Jan 01 15:24:00 firefox latest beta is pretty usable :-) Jan 01 15:24:07 and opera was always usable Jan 01 15:24:17 but the interface is kinda annoying there Jan 01 15:36:30 Yeah, I don't like the fennec ux at all. Jan 01 15:38:10 it zooms in on what I want with doubletap more often than microb Jan 01 15:38:46 but sometimes nothing happens, and I double tap again, and then after 20 secs it suddenly zooms in out in out in out in Jan 01 15:38:49 Does it actually have the zoom into element feature now then? Jan 01 15:39:04 I'd love Opera if it had that. Jan 01 15:39:17 It's the only reason really that I use microb exclusively. Jan 01 15:39:27 Because the zoom to element is fsking awesome :) Jan 01 15:39:37 usually opera actually figures out which link im long tapping, much better than microb and fennec Jan 01 15:40:04 Not had that problem tbh Jan 01 15:41:05 it's hard to make microb recognize longtap on the postcount in tmo minimalist light Jan 01 15:41:11 when postcount is singledigit Jan 01 15:41:37 and hard to make it zoom in on it with doubletap Jan 01 15:56:51 I always feel dirty when I use SQL in an application. Jan 01 15:57:03 Well, a C/C++ application Jan 01 16:04:36 say I have an app which uses plugins, and these plugins want to update their data at arbitrary intervals, I could allow each plugin to create a QTimer, but I was thinking centralising the timer stuff would more easily allow me to suspend timers if the app is backgrounded Jan 01 16:04:46 any thoughts as to whether this is or isn't a good idea? Jan 01 16:05:12 I'd have a timer in each plugin like you said. Jan 01 16:05:12 the centralising would also make it easier to write plugins, as they wouldn't need to listen for an extra "we're going to the bg" signal Jan 01 16:05:24 But have a suspend/resume method in each function Jan 01 16:05:32 s/function/plugin/ Jan 01 16:05:32 alterego meant: But have a suspend/resume method in each plugin Jan 01 16:05:39 yep, makes sense Jan 01 16:06:52 hi. do you think this supposed N900 is real or fake? http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280609539747 i know there isn't very much to look at, but perhaps the OS screen Jan 01 16:06:58 You can even, that way, have a base "AbstractApplicationPlugin" class that implements the timer suspend/resume slots and leave syou to just setup the timer in your plugins constructor. Jan 01 16:07:32 the only issue is that not all plugins will have timer-related updates Jan 01 16:08:05 but I guess I can always check for the presence of the timer object Jan 01 16:08:14 LjL: the box looks right, from what I recall, the n900 looks legit on a first look Jan 01 16:09:11 However. Jan 01 16:10:34 lardman: Well, the proper way to do it would be to declare that your plugin implements timer interface, then you can interact with it in that manner with a cast. Jan 01 16:10:43 Otherwise ignore it if it doesn't implement that interface. Jan 01 16:11:18 I'd like to make the plugin writing as simple as possible Jan 01 16:12:04 Well, it is, I could knock up the code in a few minutes :P Jan 01 16:16:50 SpeedEvil: a generic however as in who really knows, i guess? Jan 01 16:18:11 alterego: I'll remember that, and give you a shout once the code is in Garage Jan 01 16:18:29 Sure Jan 01 16:19:57 LjL: I was about to comment 'however I'd never buy from someone with one positive feedback in the last 12 months, it's an almost guarantee that the account has been stolen. Jan 01 16:20:36 LjL: But I then realised that the reason for the 1 feedback in the last 12 months is that the people buying in the last 12 months are repeat customers of similar items - and hence that's unlikel Jan 01 16:20:37 y Jan 01 16:20:58 repeat customers don't count in the feedback totals Jan 01 16:23:38 Slow day today Jan 01 16:23:46 Suprised there aren't more people online Jan 01 16:23:51 For new years hacking ^.^ Jan 01 16:24:24 same here Jan 01 16:28:57 They'll probably all still dead Jan 01 16:29:08 I know I am, despite not leaving the house last night. Jan 01 16:31:18 Heh Jan 01 16:31:21 I'm alright, Jan 01 16:31:29 Bit hungover but not too bad considering :) Jan 01 16:35:26 I really just want to get Columbus v1 out of the way so I can start working on another app and let it rest for a bit. Jan 01 16:40:28 Think I've hooked in QSql successfully now though ^.^ Jan 01 16:40:37 So my waypoint storage seems good. Jan 01 16:42:05 QSqlTableModel ftw Jan 01 16:42:13 And my custom delegate of course. Jan 01 16:50:42 Hrm, almost. Jan 01 16:51:05 alterego, HNY Jan 01 16:51:11 qsql within qml? Jan 01 16:51:18 No Jan 01 16:51:25 hello, anyone else having wrong year showing in conky? Jan 01 16:51:30 But there is support for SQL in QML Jan 01 16:51:34 Columbus isn't QML :P Jan 01 16:52:04 i thought you found some nice bits and were mixing and matching? Jan 01 16:52:14 not that it matters Jan 01 16:52:18 TheJ, hrm Jan 01 16:52:28 check your n900 knows the correct date Jan 01 16:52:59 lcuk: I'm planning a large UI redesign for v2 Jan 01 16:53:18 But that's way off, it'll be a mix between Qt,QML and OpenGL Jan 01 16:53:23 It's gonna be awesome ;) Jan 01 16:53:44 yes. the clock in status menu is showing the correct date.. Jan 01 16:54:01 lcuk: Maybe even something like QML 3D, dunno if you've seen that around? Jan 01 16:54:05 Looks very fun :) Jan 01 16:55:22 could it be that i have a cusrtomized conky.conf file? Jan 01 16:56:11 TheJ, could be, if someone set a fixed format in one of the options Jan 01 16:57:50 {time %A %d %B %G} Jan 01 16:58:13 try restarting conky? Jan 01 16:58:41 tried restarting and rebooting.. Jan 01 17:03:55 changed the .conf file to another that doesn't show the date.. why do i need it in conky anyway :) thanks to all, and a happy new year! Jan 01 17:19:21 * alterego tests adding waypoints. Jan 01 17:22:23 * trumee interesting, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12094227 Jan 01 17:22:28 Well, that sort of worked .. Jan 01 17:34:23 Shockingly easy this .. Jan 01 17:40:39 moo? Jan 01 17:40:49 Aloha Jan 01 17:45:12 Now for actual entry validation. Jan 01 17:45:19 And parsing of coordinate formats. Jan 01 17:46:32 hmm, i was told the flasher utility could also backup the device, but i cant find that in the help, anyone knows whether it can actually do that? Jan 01 17:46:41 we know Jan 01 17:46:43 it can't Jan 01 17:46:49 there is backup utility on a phone Jan 01 17:47:06 i know, but i wanted to copy _ALL_ files Jan 01 17:47:26 what for Jan 01 17:48:33 so the backup utility really gets EVERYTHING of interest, the sms's, calender, contact list, placement of widgets on desktop, all the dotfolders in the emmc etc? Jan 01 17:48:46 no Jan 01 17:49:01 then that is what for :) Jan 01 17:49:09 but there is no need to flash emmc Jan 01 17:49:11 It's for confusing users. Jan 01 17:49:15 and if you want to flash emmc Jan 01 17:49:23 you can copy all crap from there using pc Jan 01 17:49:26 I personally rsync'd off my whole device before flashing. Jan 01 17:49:42 yes but wifi is broken on it Jan 01 17:49:42 I would however recommend you exclude /sys and /proc - as these confuse rsync considerably. :) Jan 01 17:50:04 do it over usbnetworking Jan 01 17:50:30 yeah i guess i could do that Jan 01 17:52:11 allthough i doubt reflashing will fix it Jan 01 17:57:58 SpeedEvil: well i didn't buy it, i wasn't sure about it in the first place aside from the being fake issue, but it did go for just €230 which is really not a lot (i usually see between 250 and 300, more on the 300 side) Jan 01 17:58:29 I did rsync restore followed by backup utility restore Jan 01 17:59:30 Evening ShadowJK Jan 01 18:00:16 evening Jan 01 18:02:34 I'm making pancakes Jan 01 18:02:47 how come there's no pancake timer app Jan 01 18:02:58 ShadowJK: there are a few kitchen timer apps. Jan 01 18:03:01 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jan 01 18:03:15 I made a _huge_ stack of pancakes a couple of weeks ago to freeze. Jan 01 18:03:27 Have you got a wristwatch? Jan 01 18:03:27 I found out after I'd made them that I'd omitted the sugar. Jan 01 18:03:29 Argh. Jan 01 18:03:33 Has it got a freaking timer? =) Jan 01 18:03:46 SpeedEvil: ahaha Jan 01 18:03:56 Just add sugar now? :P Jan 01 18:04:01 Speed: At least you have not replaced it with salt by mistake (yes, it happened) Jan 01 18:04:28 RST38h: True. Jan 01 18:04:32 I have both salt and sugar in mine Jan 01 18:04:36 (I hope) Jan 01 18:04:54 RST38h: I'm smearing them with coreander, garlic, and vegetable oil, sticking them in the oven, and calling them naan bread. Jan 01 18:05:03 Ahhahaha Jan 01 18:07:33 You'd think after the N8x0 they'd have sorted screen tear .. Jan 01 18:12:02 oop too much butter Jan 01 18:12:20 Heh Jan 01 18:12:21 bubbling alien landscape instead of pancake.. Jan 01 18:14:24 Tasty Jan 01 18:15:12 Add more sugar and call it a funnel cake Jan 01 18:16:04 SpeedEvil, just add syrup? Jan 01 18:16:18 Though the naan idea is genius. Jan 01 18:18:18 GAN900: It sort-of-works. Jan 01 18:18:25 Hahah Jan 01 18:18:27 It's edible anyway. Jan 01 18:26:46 Cool, now got creating and updating waypoints. Jan 01 18:26:58 Next for averaging, then I can work on actually rendering them in the trackview. Jan 01 18:28:06 have anyone managed to get iw on the n900? Jan 01 18:28:19 i keep getting "invalid tar magic" Jan 01 18:29:38 I don't believe it, they're doing another Fast & Furious film? Jan 01 18:29:41 Lame .. Jan 01 18:30:27 seriously? Jan 01 18:30:34 Yes, seriously .. Jan 01 18:30:38 It's called "Fast Five" .. Jan 01 18:30:46 Sounds super ghey :D Jan 01 18:32:18 alterego, they still make money. Jan 01 18:32:42 Recall what percentage of the population is below average. Jan 01 18:33:14 Hahah Jan 01 18:41:27 GAN900: is that a trick question? Jan 01 18:50:19 kerio, rhetorical, yes. Jan 01 18:50:49 My intention was to illustrate why a movie like that would be produced and distributed. *g* Jan 01 18:52:32 oh man... new year... apparently i let a bunch of woman put me in a tight fitting dress last night Jan 01 18:52:39 alcohol can be brutal Jan 01 18:54:26 Hahah Jan 01 18:54:28 OMG, they are actually taking my trolling seriously Jan 01 18:55:36 Late tmo members are so damn gullible... Jan 01 18:56:25 Heh Jan 01 19:01:39 ieatlint, was it worth it? :P Jan 01 19:02:02 ieatlint, not always a bad thing Jan 01 19:02:09 did the dress suit you? Jan 01 19:02:13 or wasnt it your colour? Jan 01 19:02:17 a.k.a. ieatlint, did you have sex with them afterwards? :P Jan 01 19:02:35 tonight didn't pay off... but i have reason to think it will in the near future ;) Jan 01 19:03:15 yeah and you can happily wipe cross dressing off future new years lists :P Jan 01 19:03:17 the colour fit me well enough.. plaid Jan 01 19:03:41 not the first time this has happened Jan 01 19:04:08 heh Jan 01 19:04:28 * ieatlint lives in san francisco, etc Jan 01 19:04:29 lardman, how was your new year? ieatlint and you need to compare notes :P Jan 01 19:05:03 http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/Screenshot-20101231-013048.png Jan 01 19:05:10 My waypoints custom list. Jan 01 19:05:25 * alterego contemplates adding in lat/lon values as well. Jan 01 19:05:33 alterego, theres me thinking you were making a racing game ;) Jan 01 19:05:34 Though that's probably not important in that view tbh Jan 01 19:07:02 alterego: how does your compass work anyway? Jan 01 19:07:31 I like how everyone calls it a compass Jan 01 19:07:48 Just because it has a pretty compass widget, it does a bit more than just show you which way north is :P Jan 01 19:09:17 RST38h: it displays heading, nothing special. Jan 01 19:09:50 I'll probably implement support for a digital compass if/when I get my hands on a device with it. Jan 01 19:11:29 But then, heading is still probably the most useful aspect in this app .. Jan 01 19:13:37 alterego: will there be maps? Jan 01 19:14:39 Not for v1 Jan 01 19:15:11 alterego: I, for once, would be interested in http://retromap.ru/ support =) Jan 01 19:15:26 alterego: Maep author said he is not doing local maps =( Jan 01 19:16:18 Oh, is that a collection of old maps, so you can kind of imagine how things have changed? Jan 01 19:16:21 That would be quite neat. Jan 01 19:16:33 Maybe useful for archeologists ;) Jan 01 19:16:34 alterego: Yep, from ancient times to 2010 Jan 01 19:16:45 alterego: It is a killer app for city walkers Jan 01 19:17:25 alterego: You bring it up and can immediately check out what has been there 100, 200, 400 years ago + the arhictectural plans for this place as they developed over time Jan 01 19:17:33 Well, I might write a seperate app for something like that in the future ;) Jan 01 19:17:53 I don't think I should include it into Columbus though Jan 01 19:18:07 Even if it does have a retro sounding name ^.^ Jan 01 19:18:25 jacekowski: Hi, I have seen in the backlog you posted a link to the injection drivers. It is already down, google has cached the link to hotfile.com, however the file was removed: http://hotfile.com/dl/93417170/a2c9007/wl1251-maemo-0.1.tar.gz.html . Jan 01 19:20:51 * timeless_xchat chuckles @iOS new years alarm features Jan 01 19:20:51 http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/31/psa-iphone-alarms-not-working-come-new-years-day-2011/ Jan 01 19:21:22 tobis87: nope Jan 01 19:21:27 tobis87: i never pasted it Jan 01 19:22:33 jacekowski: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-01-01.log.html#t2011-01-01T15:02:41 Jan 01 19:22:55 i pasted link to page Jan 01 19:23:12 that's all Jan 01 19:23:17 not to a driver Jan 01 19:23:23 hmm, he took it down Jan 01 19:23:51 alterego: the maps are available in pretty much the same way as Google maps Jan 01 19:24:34 alterego: So, no extra app is required, just add 'em as options among other choices (Google maps, MS Terraserv, Yahoo maps, Yandex maps, etc) Jan 01 19:25:13 Well, I wasn't planning on supporting multiple backends Jan 01 19:25:27 I was just going to use ovi map sources in the new mobility api Jan 01 19:25:49 jacekowski: Yes, that is what I ment. It is GPL, someone should mirror it. He should have made it an option to donate and not to have to. Jan 01 19:25:54 no Jan 01 19:25:56 it's not gpl Jan 01 19:25:59 alterego: ovi maps stuff is kinda..mm...limited Jan 01 19:26:08 tobis87: it's not gpl in first place Jan 01 19:26:23 alterego: and it does look like supporting web maps is not that difficult Jan 01 19:27:07 Well, I'll think about it, you're right it isn't really much more work. Jan 01 19:27:19 And the whole of v1->v2 development is going to be around mapping. Jan 01 19:27:43 So I guess I should be able to write a plugin interface for map sources, then you can implement the plugin yourself :P Jan 01 19:28:30 alterego: Dunno, Mappero simply lets you enter URLs,with some special fields where latlons are inserted Jan 01 19:28:49 Yeah, Jan 01 19:28:55 alterego: Of course, this does not work for every source. For example, it fails for retromaps Jan 01 19:29:11 jacekowski: How is it not gpl? Did he rewrote the driver from scratch? Jan 01 19:29:13 Hrm, well, I'll do some research when I start working on v2 ;) Jan 01 19:29:22 I need to finish up my v1 roadmap first. Jan 01 19:29:31 retromaps require a quadtree path (i.e. sequence of quadrant IDs like 1123143134 Jan 01 19:30:56 I'm going to be adding a load of GLES2 hardware accelerated mapping facilities for v2 Jan 01 19:31:01 It's gonna be sweet :) Jan 01 19:31:11 With a mix of QML as well. Jan 01 19:32:33 tobis87: that package includes kernel Jan 01 19:32:37 tobis87: and patches Jan 01 19:32:43 tobis87: and other stuff Jan 01 19:32:52 tobis87: patches are not GPLed Jan 01 19:33:01 tobis87: because they are not touching GPL code yet Jan 01 19:33:34 tobis87: there is GPLed kernel with patches already applied and stuff Jan 01 19:33:54 tobis87: so alex could have extracted patches easily and do it legally Jan 01 19:34:05 tobis87: but he just wanted to be cunt Jan 01 19:34:18 alterego: Just be light on GLES2, looks like it causes all kinds of stability problems Jan 01 19:34:35 SHouldn't, of course, but such is the driver quality Jan 01 19:38:20 jacekowski: BS Jan 01 19:38:30 But does the package not also includes compiled modules, which have the changes made to the code? Jan 01 19:38:32 jacekowski: all of Linux is GPL Jan 01 19:38:37 yes Jan 01 19:38:43 jacekowski: if it's a kernel patch, it's touching GPL code Jan 01 19:38:48 no Jan 01 19:38:50 yes Jan 01 19:38:53 not until it's applied Jan 01 19:38:58 wrong Jan 01 19:39:36 Is there anywhere to put shell aliases that are honoured ny busybox; e.g. a .ashrc? It even ignores etc/profile. Jan 01 19:39:40 well i consulted person that does it every day Jan 01 19:39:55 and he wasn't sure of that Jan 01 19:40:05 it may be gpled but may be not Jan 01 19:40:36 jacekowski: a patch is merely a method of compressing a modified tree Jan 01 19:40:51 yes Jan 01 19:40:54 just because you don't see any of the original code when you gzip the kernel, doesn't mean it's no longer GPL Jan 01 19:40:57 but what if you write patch by hand Jan 01 19:41:04 you can't write a patch by hand Jan 01 19:41:07 you can Jan 01 19:41:13 no Jan 01 19:41:20 you need to base it on the original code Jan 01 19:41:23 or it won't work Jan 01 19:41:44 even if you didn't have to copy and paste 3 lines of context before/after each change, it's STILL a derivative work Jan 01 19:42:48 Is the injection stuff touching mac80211? I understand that it is a recent version of the driver, but maybe the it could be backported. Jan 01 19:43:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#Linking_and_derived_works Jan 01 19:43:58 I mean without updating the kernel, since mac80211 is compiled into the stock kernel. Jan 01 19:44:20 luke-jr: real lawyer isn't sure about it Jan 01 19:44:35 jacekowski: lots of real lawyers are. Jan 01 19:44:41 jacekowski: it's not rocket science Jan 01 19:44:52 lot of people wish that it would be one way or another Jan 01 19:45:58 esspecialy that with kernel there are some exceptions to gpl and stuff Jan 01 19:46:06 as you are allowed to have binary drivers Jan 01 19:46:17 closed binary drivers using kernel headers Jan 01 19:46:34 "Has the Industrialized World Reached Peak Travel?" (C)Slahdot Jan 01 19:46:47 jacekowski: wrong Jan 01 19:46:47 RST38h: reall? That's lame, I've not had any issues with GLES2 personally. Jan 01 19:46:53 jacekowski: binary drivers using kernel headers are illegal Jan 01 19:46:58 jacekowski: the only exception is for userland Jan 01 19:47:04 Angry Birds and apps seem to work fine aswell .. Jan 01 19:47:51 jacekowski: anything that touches the kernel (exception to userland only) MUST be GPL Jan 01 19:48:18 luke-jr: so how nvidia drivers are working? Jan 01 19:48:25 jacekowski: they are illegal Jan 01 19:48:33 no Jan 01 19:48:35 luke-jr: you're wrong. Jan 01 19:48:36 jacekowski: they are "working" because everyone who can sue nVidia, is too scared to Jan 01 19:48:46 Bullshit Jan 01 19:49:03 Linux has support for closed modules. Jan 01 19:49:05 even microsoft was sued for gpl violation Jan 01 19:49:09 alterego: wrong Jan 01 19:49:14 and they released a lot of code because of that Jan 01 19:49:15 luke-jr: you're wrong. Jan 01 19:49:15 jacekowski: not just anyone can sue for GPL violations Jan 01 19:49:35 jacekowski: also, it doesn't hurt the community to sue Microsoft over their virtualization stuff Jan 01 19:49:50 if someone sues nVidia, then nVidia probably leaves 50% of the Linux users w/o drivers at all Jan 01 19:50:02 http://kerneltrap.org/node/1735 Jan 01 19:50:06 then those 50% get mad at the developer who sued, instead of nVidia like they should Jan 01 19:50:30 there is exception in kernel licence Jan 01 19:50:45 jacekowski: nope Jan 01 19:51:42 * alterego sighs Jan 01 19:54:01 jacekowski: go ahead: show me where in the kernel copyright terms the exception is Jan 01 19:54:11 But aren't the open source idealsmore important to you than a bunch of obscure drivers? Jan 01 19:54:30 no Jan 01 19:54:33 RST38h: I don't have a position where I can sue. Jan 01 19:54:47 thing that is important to me if things are working or not Jan 01 19:55:29 jacekowski: then use Windows Jan 01 19:55:59 Windows is broken Jan 01 19:56:25 It is a super pile of scht. Jan 01 19:56:50 luke: Thou shalt not despair and should start studying law instead! Jan 01 19:57:11 I am sure you will find *something* to sue NVidia for Jan 01 19:57:15 i'm using windows Jan 01 20:02:03 happy new-year :) Jan 01 20:02:25 * alterego contemplates lat/lon entry possibilities. Jan 01 20:35:06 alterego: "Go to the desired lat/lon, and click 'here'." Jan 01 20:36:03 Hah Jan 01 20:49:26 good morning! Jan 01 20:52:30 Good afternoon :) Jan 01 21:04:49 alterego: seriously... Jan 01 21:04:58 a map based ui is generally the right chooser for lat/lon Jan 01 21:05:09 it's rather rare for a person to have lat/lon Jan 01 21:09:17 Hrm Jan 01 21:09:21 I've many times wished various navigation software would allow me to put in lat lon :-( Jan 01 21:09:41 Mostly because their search is stupid and I found the place through some other means Jan 01 21:12:42 Or you want to tell someone else a location Jan 01 21:12:48 and they don't have the same map as you Jan 01 21:12:59 Yeah Jan 01 21:17:53 I have difficulties with navigation programs in trilingual areas :/ Jan 01 21:18:16 The best I've seen have had the place names in two languages, and then displays everything in the language no locals use Jan 01 21:21:14 I wonder if those motorola phones are in high demand that have had the gsm filters removed from the firmware. Jan 01 21:22:04 filters? Jan 01 21:22:46 Yes, allows the transceiver to pass on all GSM data running through the network it seems. Jan 01 21:22:49 ~sees Jan 01 21:22:49 hmm... sees is unwililng to share Jan 01 21:23:35 Oh the CCC reverse engineered and rewritten firmware ones? Jan 01 21:24:02 * MohammadAG looks at tmo Jan 01 21:26:55 ShadowJK: yeah Jan 01 21:26:59 Weird .. Jan 01 21:27:09 hm= Jan 01 21:27:10 hm? Jan 01 21:27:12 So how much code did this wireless guy even write? Jan 01 21:27:34 What wireless guy? Jan 01 21:27:46 From one of his posts it sounds like he's just using an updated wl1251 driver from wireless-compat or something. Jan 01 21:27:48 The one charging for some wlxxxx.ko module? Jan 01 21:27:52 Yes Jan 01 21:28:00 He probably just packaged it :-) Jan 01 21:29:01 alterego, he wrote the injection patches, and the monitor mode ones Jan 01 21:29:08 so, no, he didn't just package it ;) Jan 01 21:29:17 Heh Jan 01 21:29:21 Still, he's a lamo Jan 01 21:29:50 Matan posted the drivers Jan 01 21:30:10 I'm surprised people would pay for it Jan 01 21:30:14 do they want to hack wireless that bad Jan 01 21:30:22 or are they just clueless Jan 01 21:30:47 I'd definitely use it, if I had the drivers. Jan 01 21:30:54 moo javispedro Jan 01 21:31:10 moo Jan 01 21:31:14 But I do a fair amount of wireless auditing for companies. Jan 01 21:31:20 wireless/network auditing Jan 01 21:36:53 javispedro: When is the MWC by the way? Jan 01 21:37:50 NFI, but http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/ says 14-17 Jan 01 21:38:06 february Jan 01 21:42:15 javispedro: so, february it is.... Jan 01 21:44:14 surprise of surprises, someone actually answered my inquiries about windows 3.1 mouse driver internals.. Jan 01 21:44:19 the world is full of geeks Jan 01 21:47:54 hi guys Jan 01 21:48:07 Aloha Jan 01 21:48:40 hey Venemo Jan 01 21:50:12 hm Jan 01 21:50:38 hey MohammadAG :) Jan 01 21:50:42 hello alterego Jan 01 21:51:00 RST38h, think that'll be the event? Jan 01 21:51:12 GAN: Well, a minor event at least Jan 01 21:51:46 RST38h, yes, but THE event? Jan 01 21:51:51 Hm, these pleasant people are seriously considering creating criteria (!) for acceptance into extras-testing Jan 01 21:51:54 too early Jan 01 21:51:59 * GAN900 doesn't have any hunches anymore. Jan 01 21:51:59 GAN: Depends on what you mean by THE Jan 01 21:52:20 javispedro, aye, which means I'm just trying to fool myself. :P Jan 01 21:52:37 how goes the dosbox mouse battle javispedro Jan 01 21:52:49 GAN: But no, it is unlikely to be THE event, should just bring some determination to the future plans Jan 01 21:53:10 pupnik: I made a custom "protocol" for a ps2 absolute mouse, and patched the win3.11 mouse driver to use it Jan 01 21:53:19 nice Jan 01 21:53:24 it actually works =) Jan 01 21:53:30 except in protected mode... Jan 01 21:53:32 cheater. Jan 01 21:53:57 so you basically just used dx,dy as x,y? Jan 01 21:54:26 btw drnoksnes fails to compile if GUI=0 in makefile :) Jan 01 21:54:31 in the process I learnt that ps2 only has 8bit delta fields, which probably explains why you cannot tap in x=0,y=0 then x=480,y=800 without itself decalibrating Jan 01 21:54:41 ahhh Jan 01 21:54:42 (it would overflow and move to x=255,y=255) Jan 01 21:55:09 actually, ps2 max deltas are smaller than that Jan 01 21:55:24 and there are overflow bits in the status it reports, as well Jan 01 21:55:56 * RST38h vaguely remembers that at some values of the reported deltas Linux starts going nuts Jan 01 21:56:32 dosbox is having trouble with deltas from synergyc as well Jan 01 21:58:13 re Jan 01 22:00:18 hi chem|st Jan 01 22:01:18 Wee, almost done with work. Jan 01 22:05:18 ;) welcome to the darksi.. ehrm 2011 Jan 01 22:06:41 i miss watching the liquid scintillation counter with it's nixie-tube display Jan 01 22:30:46 the archos a70 tablet getting great benchmark results http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?p=298040#p298040 Jan 01 22:31:51 is that omap4 or something Jan 01 22:32:51 newp, omap3640 @ 1ghz Jan 01 22:34:13 oh, wow Jan 01 22:34:36 it's kinda surprising then that droid is so low Jan 01 22:36:17 if things go well it will be running maego soon Jan 01 22:41:07 pupnik: maego? :) Jan 01 22:45:01 Heh Jan 01 22:45:39 heh Jan 01 22:46:21 heh Jan 01 22:46:29 ;) Jan 01 22:46:46 copyright my ass. it's even a better name Jan 01 22:47:04 * javispedro agrees with pupnik :) Jan 01 22:47:52 RST38h, oh is that the thread where this guy starts by complaining that all the shit he downloaded from -devel doesn't work? Jan 01 22:49:02 ah, funny thread Jan 01 22:52:06 anyone seen this yet? http://thenokiablog.com/2010/12/30/nokia-n900-popular-amazon-gift/ Jan 01 22:53:06 interesting, but who gives a ~ $600 phone/mini-tablet as a gift? I need richer friends so I don't have to pay for things like my N900 myself :) Jan 01 22:53:34 mtnbkr: yeah, I've seen it. quite surprising Jan 01 22:53:49 also raises the question, how much did Nokia pay for Amazon for this? Jan 01 22:53:51 pft. Jan 01 22:54:17 Venemo: right? Jan 01 22:56:34 I don't find it that ridiculous Jan 01 22:56:46 Mainly because the type of people buying it. Jan 01 22:59:44 * SpeedEvil checks 'other bought items' Jan 01 22:59:48 Aww - no fun ones. Jan 01 23:07:50 has anyone tried using the roadrunner app as a general alert when approaching a way point app ? Jan 01 23:08:10 And I've just added waypoint averaging .. Jan 01 23:08:28 Still need to add rendering to track view though Jan 01 23:09:02 is roadrunner your app? Jan 01 23:09:12 No, I'm talking about a different app .. Jan 01 23:09:21 ah Jan 01 23:09:33 It is pure coincidence you started asking about roadrunner :P Jan 01 23:09:45 I just want a way to notify me if I am near a waypoint in a list so if you got another app... Jan 01 23:09:51 I see. Jan 01 23:10:08 Sure, mine will be able to do that. Jan 01 23:10:30 oh? does it trigger the normal alerts or some other thing? and is it small? Jan 01 23:10:33 Are you saying roadrunner works or doesn't? Jan 01 23:10:52 neither, I just came across it as I was looking for such an pp Jan 01 23:10:53 app Jan 01 23:10:56 It's not particularly small, but it is quite lightweight if that's what you mean. Jan 01 23:11:05 not quite my goal but it seems to be close to what I want Jan 01 23:11:21 well, I would like to co-exists with Mappero running hence the desire for it to be small Jan 01 23:11:30 Hrm, Jan 01 23:11:34 ideally, it should just be a widget to enable the alarm Jan 01 23:12:22 Well, it wouldn't be too hard to knock something like that up. Jan 01 23:12:25 Why don't you do it? Jan 01 23:12:32 what I want to do is when i see a place I want to visit, place a marker on a desktop app. save it out as a GPX file that gets pushed. the N900 would be a normal moving map display but it would also alert me if I am near something Jan 01 23:13:12 cuz I just started looking so I don't re-invent the wheel and also cuz I am not much of an apps person (I do kernel/bootloader stuff mainly) Jan 01 23:13:38 it is something I got inspired by reading other stuff Jan 01 23:14:47 if I understand things right, I take the location sample app in python and muck with it to do that Jan 01 23:15:07 Yeah, maybe. Jan 01 23:15:12 lat/lon are sent via dbus Jan 01 23:15:47 Or you can use Qt Mobility (even in python) as it has a nice method for measuring the distance between to lat/lon coords. Jan 01 23:15:56 but roadrunner seems to be a candidate to test out the idea Jan 01 23:16:04 M'hmm Jan 01 23:16:28 distance between shouldn't be too hard; for the distances I want (<1 mile), couldn't I just use the distance formula? Jan 01 23:17:12 m'hmm Jan 01 23:18:34 the only part I donno is how to interface with the alerts system Jan 01 23:23:21 Well, that depends one what kind of alerts you want. Jan 01 23:23:34 Are you talking about just normal hildon info banners? Jan 01 23:23:47 hmm, crap Jan 01 23:24:22 MohammadAG: what's crap? :P Jan 01 23:24:52 * alterego humms inanely Jan 01 23:25:43 Venemo, I broke the mediaplayer :P Jan 01 23:25:49 the full alerts thing, kind of like when a SMS comes in Jan 01 23:25:59 hm, what's the channel for the community ssu? Jan 01 23:26:20 hmm Jan 01 23:26:58 wmarone, #maemo-ssu , I'm not responsible if anything breaks until it's released officially Jan 01 23:26:59 freenode slow for anyone else atm? Jan 01 23:27:08 2s lag Jan 01 23:27:28 MohammadAG: yeah, just confused at an update that trickled down Jan 01 23:28:04 I'm testing stuff Jan 01 23:28:17 night chaps Jan 01 23:28:48 going back to gedit for C/C++ is lulz Jan 01 23:29:23 ouch Jan 01 23:32:02 gedit is awesome :P Jan 01 23:32:47 vi4ever Jan 01 23:33:47 indeed, but you don't get the autocomplete/syntax highlighting that Qt Creator provides :P Jan 01 23:34:17 yay Jan 01 23:34:20 one layout for the mediaplayer Jan 01 23:34:37 but I need to move the widgets in it, no idea how Jan 01 23:34:52 * timeless_mbp sighs Jan 01 23:35:02 * timeless_mbp wonders what it would take to get Ovi Suite to have non lame text Jan 01 23:36:32 A large crowd of villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches? Jan 01 23:36:37 a better design team? :P Jan 01 23:36:53 that works too Jan 01 23:37:11 lol SpeedEvil Jan 01 23:37:20 MohammadAG: why gedit instead of Qt Creator? Jan 01 23:37:48 a bit lighter for quick code checkups :P Jan 01 23:37:58 heh, lol Jan 01 23:38:10 I would never give up an IDE for a notepad Jan 01 23:39:07 heh Jan 01 23:39:14 hmm Jan 01 23:39:23 if something doesn't send clicked(), how do I make it do so again? :P Jan 01 23:39:40 MohammadAG: it does send clicked, but you may not have connected to it Jan 01 23:40:12 QGraphicsView doesn't send clicked() Jan 01 23:40:41 Can n900 play video codec "H264 MPEG-4 AVC" and audio codec "MPEG AAC"? Jan 01 23:41:06 depends on profile Jan 01 23:41:12 as in it can play all Jan 01 23:41:13 void QGraphicsView::mouseReleaseEvent(QMouseEvent *event) <-- assuming I need to go on with this? Jan 01 23:41:23 but only some with hardware acceleration at normal framerate Jan 01 23:41:23 MohammadAG: ummmmm Jan 01 23:41:25 M'hmm Jan 01 23:41:29 jacekowski: Can you please explain? Jan 01 23:41:37 MohammadAG: what would you like to achieve exactly? Jan 01 23:42:08 Ex-Opesa: omap iva only has support for some codecs Jan 01 23:42:11 Venemo, a QGraphicsView that emits clicked() when clicked Jan 01 23:42:12 jacekowski: What you mean by "depends on provile" Jan 01 23:42:39 Ex-Opesa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Profiles Jan 01 23:42:57 Ex-Opesa: only baseline will be decoded at full framerate Jan 01 23:43:53 So how will I know which profile the video has which I am trying to play? :/ Jan 01 23:44:35 MohammadAG: you'll have to make a derived class, make a clicked() signal for it, override its mouseReleaseEvent, and if the button is the left one, emit the clicked signal Jan 01 23:45:45 Ex-Opesa: yeah Jan 01 23:45:56 Ex-Opesa: it will either work or work at low framerate Jan 01 23:47:56 jacekowski: It doesn't even work. Which program should I use to convert it into baseline mpeg. I am not so experienced with multimedia codecs. Jan 01 23:49:24 The default media player just says unsupported format if it's not baseline Jan 01 23:50:03 Venemo, got it, one more question though, would I need to add the QGraphicsView outside of Designer? Jan 01 23:50:09 Ex-Opesa: try to playback with mplayer maybe Jan 01 23:50:22 MohammadAG: no, there is a "promote to..." feature in the designer Jan 01 23:50:48 MohammadAG: that way you can promote your QGraphicsView in the designer to "MaeMohamMediaGraphicsView" Jan 01 23:51:08 MohammadAG: (joking, sorry! :P) Jan 01 23:51:30 but that means I need an extra .h file right? Jan 01 23:52:42 for what? Jan 01 23:53:37 Venemo, the class Jan 01 23:53:46 hmm Jan 01 23:53:53 * MohammadAG experiments Jan 01 23:54:17 MohammadAG: yeah, as I said, you need to derive a class from QGraphicsView Jan 01 23:54:32 MohammadAG: you should make a .h and a .cpp for it Jan 01 23:54:38 Venemo: Superb! It worked flawlessly. I installed kmplayer some days and I tried it first time now. It worked. Thanks Venemo. Can you tell me which program is used in default "media player" of n900? Jan 01 23:55:03 It's a custom nokia program. Jan 01 23:55:06 Ex-Opesa: mafw is used, but I'm not sure what its backend is Jan 01 23:55:08 For which no sources are available Jan 01 23:55:20 Ex-Opesa: anyway mplayer is good to give a spin when the default player fails Jan 01 23:55:44 In some cases, the inbuilt player can use significantly less battery. Jan 01 23:56:03 Venemo: Indeed Jan 01 23:56:25 SpeedEvil: Yeah I think mplayer might use more cpu usage then default. Don't know just an assumption. Jan 01 23:56:27 SpeedEvil: that is why I said "when the default player fails" Jan 01 23:57:35 MohammadAG: any success? Jan 01 23:57:44 Venemo, just a sec Jan 02 00:06:44 Venemo, done with the .h/cpp files, but now how do I promote it? Jan 02 00:07:16 MohammadAG: open the designer, right click the widget Jan 02 00:07:38 did that Jan 02 00:07:44 but it says Not used Jan 02 00:09:46 oh Jan 02 00:09:48 sec Jan 02 00:10:08 heh, sorry Jan 02 00:11:20 wut? Jan 02 00:11:40 promoted it, but build fails :P Jan 02 00:12:10 commit, push, lemmecheckit Jan 02 00:13:40 I won't commit broken sources :P Jan 02 00:14:24 then whatever. email it to me Jan 02 00:14:36 [01:10] I won't commit broken sources :P ----> VERY GOOD attitude! :) Jan 02 00:14:51 MohammadAG: or maybe send it on Skype Jan 02 00:15:51 MohammadAG: bah, I forgot my Skype password, AGAIN... :( Jan 02 00:15:55 I think I got it working :P Jan 02 00:16:24 MohammadAG: it's the 5th time in the past few months... fortunately I saved it in Firefox I think Jan 02 00:16:33 Now .. Should I get the waypoint list to dynamically update every second .. Jan 02 00:16:55 ou mean eading and range to waypoints? Jan 02 00:17:24 Round to 0.1 degrees/5m, only paint if new is different from old? Jan 02 00:17:52 SpeedEvil: basically, do I update this: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/Screenshot-20101231-013048.png Jan 02 00:18:27 alterego: nice Jan 02 00:18:28 I think I'll leave it for now. Jan 02 00:18:35 yep, it's working :_ Jan 02 00:18:39 I would say it would usually be useful to be able to click on one of those, and get a live heading and range display Jan 02 00:18:39 :)* Jan 02 00:18:44 thanks Venemo Jan 02 00:18:53 I'm glad to help as always, MohammadAG :) Jan 02 00:18:55 But to get live heading and range to all would be less useful normally. Jan 02 00:19:04 SpeedEvil: yeah, working on that at the moment ;) Jan 02 00:21:20 I'm thinking of trying something new as well, I'm thinking of, when creating a waypoint, having the ability to do a little doodle/sketch which will then be used as the waypoints icon. Jan 02 00:21:35 I reckon it'd be quicker than selecting an icon from a list. Jan 02 00:22:15 Hrm, though drawing with your finger might be a bit annoying .. Jan 02 00:25:12 Take a snap too as an option Jan 02 00:26:11 thp, ping Jan 02 00:31:33 Yeah, that's a good idea. Jan 02 00:33:22 is there a way to disable the "type to enter address" in microb? Jan 02 00:33:28 it's fucking annoying Jan 02 00:35:09 Eh? Jan 02 00:38:52 if you're on a page and you type something while the focus isn't on a text box, you get the address bar Jan 02 00:39:09 Oh yeah, that's bloody annoying. Jan 02 00:39:47 timeless_xchat: fix this ffs Jan 02 00:40:09 There is an about:config entry I think Jan 02 00:40:22 It was decided by the excellent UI people. Jan 02 00:40:30 isn't it in the settings even Jan 02 00:43:23 Don't think so. Jan 02 00:44:00 hey, what do you know Jan 02 00:44:01 it is Jan 02 00:44:09 Heh Jan 02 00:44:32 ok, how do i set ctrl+l to bring the address bar up? Jan 02 00:45:05 that's how it is for me Jan 02 00:45:45 Yeah, mine does that anyway Jan 02 00:47:14 meh Jan 02 00:47:51 kerio: use Fennec :P:P:P Jan 02 00:48:09 i have 256mb of ram, not 8gb Jan 02 00:51:13 lol Jan 02 00:51:46 kerio: heheh :) Jan 02 00:52:04 btw their latest beta is _almost_ there Jan 02 01:00:43 I dislike the interface tbh Jan 02 01:01:48 So does anyone have definite answer: will n9 run maemo programs "just recompiled" or major modifications will be required? Jan 02 01:02:14 Arkenoi: there is no definitive answer. Jan 02 01:02:29 But most applications should run with a light bit of retweaking. Jan 02 01:02:55 It's almost there, but it has way too many "wait, no, don't do that, stop, nooooo I didn't tap that link, stop stop stop, why does stop button not do anything, wtf white page, go back... ... how can it take 30s to go back one page when it didn't take that long to load in the first place"-moments Jan 02 01:03:17 alterego, any suggestions to fix distortion in http://i56.tinypic.com/iqdmw2.jpg ? Jan 02 01:04:54 Hrm, not sure. It wouldn't look so odd if you moved it down a bit so there was more of a margin at the top Jan 02 01:09:01 alterego, you're missing the point :P Jan 02 01:16:00 does anyone has an idea what is happening with http://download.obs.maemo.org ? I am trying to access Harbaum's personal repos from there, but it seems that the whole service is dead... Jan 02 01:24:54 nazgee: looks down here Jan 02 01:26:17 pupnik_: Hurray. I was wondering, if maybe one of you guys can just flip this big red button, and bring it up, huh? :) Jan 02 01:27:36 is that even a valid url? Jan 02 01:27:37 Oh coool, Wall-E is on iplayer ^.^ Jan 02 01:51:40 new psx emu wootwoot **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 02 02:59:58 2011