**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 11 02:59:58 2011 Jan 11 03:05:17 WhiteWidow: or was the question not how to configure but rather how to actually select during bot time? Jan 11 03:05:34 boot even Jan 11 03:05:41 DocScrutinizer: nevermind Jan 11 03:05:46 k :- Jan 11 03:05:48 ) Jan 11 03:05:54 now i only need to know how to uninstall uboot Jan 11 03:06:01 hehe Jan 11 03:06:21 install a kernel that doesn't include uboot Jan 11 03:06:42 but I feel like mentioning multiboot is BAD and *deprecated* Jan 11 03:06:53 lol Jan 11 03:07:33 it's nasty and eventually will eat your N900 Jan 11 03:08:12 uBoot is the future, multiboot is last night's nightmare Jan 11 03:08:32 and the NITDroid people don't get that ;P Jan 11 03:08:41 yeah :-/ Jan 11 03:09:11 they just need a uImage Jan 11 03:09:21 that's why I'm afraid it's also tomorrow's nightmare Jan 11 03:09:22 and boot parameters Jan 11 03:09:52 lol Jan 11 03:09:59 don't try this... Jan 11 03:10:01 not that nitdridiot itself would seem any reasonable to me Jan 11 03:10:19 I tried to set the screen rotation using xrandr Jan 11 03:10:23 and wow Jan 11 03:10:25 everyone has their preferences ;) Jan 11 03:10:32 whole device rebooted Jan 11 03:10:38 LOL Jan 11 03:11:09 I think it had more to do with include files having the same #defines Jan 11 03:11:14 b-man: people who prefer foodridiot are wrong here and als have chosen the wrong hardware Jan 11 03:12:12 hell, I don't wait for a Nokia device with a 3rd grade android clone OS, whe I can get the real stuff Jan 11 03:12:15 mmm, gingerbread Jan 11 03:12:44 much rather have a nice honeycomb breakfast Jan 11 03:13:02 I feel like the widget system was ripped from maemo Jan 11 03:13:07 DocScrutinizer, i haven't really tried nitdroid, so it was just my assumption Jan 11 03:13:08 if you want andridiot then sell your N900 and get a milestone and a really nice dinner for the money :-P Jan 11 03:13:47 or do what b-man did Jan 11 03:14:04 MohammadAG: stfu :P Jan 11 03:14:09 turn to blasphemy, and buy an iPhone Jan 11 03:14:17 oops, too late Jan 11 03:14:21 mwuhahaha Jan 11 03:14:22 and it's not an iPhone Jan 11 03:14:44 Are programs run as root or something? Jan 11 03:14:49 on the n900 Jan 11 03:14:53 user Jan 11 03:14:56 dotblank: ehh? Jan 11 03:15:06 then how did my device reboot Jan 11 03:15:09 b-man, busted Jan 11 03:15:12 thats a bit freaky Jan 11 03:15:15 dotblank, dsme rebooted it Jan 11 03:15:20 not your app Jan 11 03:15:25 dsme? Jan 11 03:15:27 dotblank: what's the question, what's the problem? Jan 11 03:15:31 MohammadAG: i could care less if everyone new :P Jan 11 03:15:42 Dumb Shit Memory Eater Jan 11 03:15:52 it reboots the device when a system app crashes Jan 11 03:15:54 DocScrutinizer, I implemented Xrandr.h and called some function and it freaked out and rebooted Jan 11 03:16:00 probably X Jan 11 03:16:10 dotblank: dsme is a central scrutinizer also supperted by a couple of nasty dogs, err watchdogs Jan 11 03:16:22 b-man, your transformation to an iUser has started Jan 11 03:16:32 b-man, it's knew, not new! Jan 11 03:16:50 DocScrutinizer, I shot the dogs Jan 11 03:16:56 dotblank: if your call to xrandr made X segfault or stall then probably dsme will reboot the system Jan 11 03:16:57 well great... I hate x now Jan 11 03:17:15 shoot the watchdog Jan 11 03:17:21 you know you want to Jan 11 03:18:11 X is considered an essential component of maemo Jan 11 03:18:30 kill X -> reboot Jan 11 03:18:55 kill X -> back to framebuffer for me :P Jan 11 03:19:04 pfff Jan 11 03:19:18 well.. I think its a bit odd... does x run in user-land? Jan 11 03:19:22 It must Jan 11 03:19:25 no Jan 11 03:19:45 well x needs to segfault less Jan 11 03:22:56 install proper ps, do a ps ax --forest and check what is started and controlled by dsme Jan 11 03:23:29 700 ? S 761 ? S 806 ? Ss 0:00 \_ /usr/sbin/wappushd -b Jan 11 03:23:34 842 tty2 S 1029 ? Ss 0:00 \_ /usr/bin/ohm-session-agent Jan 11 03:23:37 +30 more Jan 11 03:27:05 alas dsmetool has no option to list all managed processes with their dsme option parameters Jan 11 03:27:52 pondering this fact, it smells like Nokia Jan 11 03:28:14 don't implement anything beyond what's needed Jan 11 03:29:28 I *bet* dsme sources have a (C) Xen Ynen, Nokia 2008 Jan 11 03:32:45 and I don't even blame Xen, as he just dis what his boss told him - "Mr Ynen, these are the specs. Please implement. Don't waste time on concerns about usability or completenes/orthogonality" Jan 11 03:34:03 "and *especially*, don't waste time on useless docs writing!" Jan 11 03:36:36 "but boss, then nobody in community ever will dare to touch it, as it's a mess and a maze!" - "yeah Mr Ynen, exactly. That's the idea" Jan 11 03:45:21 and the worst part in it: for me it looks like meego is adopting exactly that mindset Jan 11 03:45:56 while importing iPhonisms all over the place, and other madness Jan 11 03:57:49 maemo4 you could use even with a broken touchpanel, just via hw kbd. On maemo5 you're screwed for quite several elementary operations, without proper working tp. On meego I swear I'll praise the Lord when the hw kbd is even on par with the vkbd Jan 11 03:59:05 but meh, probably no hw kbd at all on meego handset devices Jan 11 03:59:09 DocScrutinizer: that will happen by making the vkbd worse Jan 11 03:59:46 lol, then if we assume my last statement will be correct, they really got a task to accomplish Jan 11 05:54:30 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> bit early in the morning to aska question like his but who here is versed in successcessfully compiling source on their n900? Jan 11 06:03:03 practically everyone but you and me :D Jan 11 06:03:11 yup :) Jan 11 06:03:28 What do need compiled? Jan 11 06:03:36 you% Jan 11 06:09:23 i just bought a second hand n900! yayy ... ok so how do i flash it to clean it up? Jan 11 06:09:50 ~flash Jan 11 06:09:51 methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 11 06:44:11 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> Ive installed the sdk image and ther nokia binaries. Need a build environment to compile PhoneME Jan 11 06:44:28 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> sorry, just snoozed Jan 11 06:44:38 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> awake now Jan 11 06:46:07 PhonMe? Jan 11 06:46:27 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> bear in mind this is the first time ive ever attempted this kind of stuff. Jan 11 06:46:57 hmm Jan 11 06:47:43 Never heard of PhoneME Jan 11 06:48:23 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> https://phoneme.dev.java.net/downloads_page.html Jan 11 06:49:11 i'm going to see what I can do wuth MR2 source bundle (b97) Jan 11 06:50:21 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> this would provide midp2 java support instead of using an emulator like microemu Jan 11 06:51:36 seems they have some linux-arm makefiles Jan 11 06:52:12 What? how is this not already on the n900? Jan 11 06:52:22 it has programs built with qt Jan 11 06:55:06 hmm.. I think I need a jdk first Jan 11 07:05:13 Optional. Java build tools (for javac, etc.). Jan 11 07:05:13 JDK_HOME= Jan 11 07:06:13 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> sorry just switched to gprs, what did i miss? thanks for looking at this dotblank Jan 11 07:06:36 well I set up the makefile somewhat Jan 11 07:06:50 but its says the jdk is optional for building cdc Jan 11 07:06:59 yet.. its erroring out from me Jan 11 07:07:03 for* Jan 11 07:21:56 Anyone know where the fremantle arm sysroots are? Jan 11 07:50:13 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> If it helps there is a thread in development section of the forum. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32772&page=1 Jan 11 07:59:42 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> There is also a thread relating to getting PhoneME to N900 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67986 Jan 11 08:00:26 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> though I'm learning the rocky road of compiling from scratch! Jan 11 08:03:15 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> dotblank > by JDK do you mean OpenJDK or J2SE Embedded? Jan 11 08:03:42 either Jan 11 08:08:18 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> Both are easy enough to get. Do these need to be copied to the chroot development environment as well? Jan 11 08:10:17 well i'm trying to set up a better sdk for myself Jan 11 08:14:09 How can I check the set options with flasher ? Jan 11 08:15:26 lol Jan 11 08:15:27 http://www.javelinfeedback.com/sun/index.jsp?pi=7c1b77e1b25ab4cb1023e336b58396ff&download=arm&V=6u21-headful-armv7-eabi-k2.6.28-libc2.9-hflt-le Jan 11 08:15:35 they wan't me to fill that out Jan 11 08:20:13 djszapi: there comes a README file with at least the tgz flasher. Also flasher --help might help ;-) Jan 11 08:21:10 djszapi: --query-rd-mode Query the device R&D mode status and flags Jan 11 08:21:17 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> I think I can zip up the copy I have if it helps. didn't realise they were asking for feedback now. will try and find a direct link Jan 11 08:22:25 [DrkGUNMAN-N900], http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&sqi=2&ved=0CFEQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdevelopers.sun.com%2Flearning%2Fjavaoneonline%2F2008%2Fpdf%2FTS-6304.pdf&rct=j&q=building%20phoneme%20advanced&ei=7xEsTYHaKsH7lwfJ6dCWCw&usg=AFQjCNGXtO3xEK-668HDJ6xOLamss93TZw Jan 11 08:22:26 lol Jan 11 08:22:31 This is kinda funny Jan 11 08:22:45 no, kinda *huge* Jan 11 08:23:37 the title of the pdf is How to Port phoneMETM Advanced Software to Jan 11 08:23:37 Google Android, iPhone, OpenMoko, LiMO, Jan 11 08:23:37 and More Jan 11 08:23:57 * DocScrutinizer wonders why we need that google crap URL... http://developers.sun.com/learning/javaoneonline/2008/pdf/TS-6304.pdf Jan 11 08:25:40 DocScrutinizer, oh whoops.. sorry about that Jan 11 08:25:48 but yeah, Openmoko being mentioned there is actually rather funny :-) Jan 11 08:25:49 didn't mean to do that :( Jan 11 08:26:29 lol.. it uses gtk Jan 11 08:26:38 this in theory should be easy to prt Jan 11 08:26:42 port Jan 11 08:38:17 umm.. Jan 11 08:38:22 I think its working.. Jan 11 08:38:29 It's compiling right now Jan 11 08:40:11 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> nice! if it is still of any help heres thr direct j2se links Jan 11 08:40:16 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> https://cds.sun.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/CDS-CDS_Developer-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewFilteredProducts-SingleVariationTypeFilter Jan 11 08:41:01 nvm I got one error here Jan 11 08:41:02 error: asm/ucontext.h: No such file or director Jan 11 08:42:49 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> will be online but got to work for a bit. will keep an eye on the chan when i get a chance Jan 11 08:43:33 dotblank: duh, a whole header file missing :-o Jan 11 08:43:47 apperently you don't really need it Jan 11 08:43:54 hehe Jan 11 08:44:00 but there is a fix someone posted in the forums BUT.. Jan 11 08:44:19 all the forums post are "This has already been answered go here" and its 404'd Jan 11 08:44:31 :-/ Jan 11 08:45:11 now at least we all (re-)learned something about how to write forum posts Jan 11 08:46:45 you might want to ask the author of that pdf you linked up there. He seems to be alive still, and even active Jan 11 08:47:17 complained about common notion regarding java's future :-) Jan 11 08:48:12 (blog on the homepage mentioned on last page of document) Jan 11 08:48:25 ugh another error.. because someone hardocded a path in the makefile Jan 11 08:49:11 [09:43:36] -NickServ- You are now identified for CrashandDie. Jan 11 08:49:11 [09:43:36] -NickServ- 3 failed logins since last login. Jan 11 08:49:14 intewesting Jan 11 08:52:27 a wabbit, a wabbit Jan 11 08:52:36 moo Jan 11 09:03:31 bin/cvm: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, not stripped Jan 11 09:03:33 :) Jan 11 09:03:36 im kinda happy Jan 11 09:07:10 heh :-D Jan 11 09:07:41 and... does it work? Jan 11 09:07:46 testing it now Jan 11 09:08:03 I spent five mins trying to figuer out why scp to my n900 wasn't working. Jan 11 09:08:15 then I relized my n900 was off Jan 11 09:08:33 I bet it linked with all the wrong libs Jan 11 09:10:01 lol the n900 doesn't have tar with the -a option Jan 11 09:10:04 great Jan 11 09:11:28 ok I get a java VM panic Jan 11 09:11:31 :( Jan 11 09:11:58 I actually half expected it to happen Jan 11 09:17:06 huzza Jan 11 09:17:11 today is a great day Jan 11 09:18:21 ............. Jan 11 09:18:21 *CONGRATULATIONS: test Test completed with 411 tests passed and 0 failures Jan 11 09:18:21 *Output lines starting with a * should be checked for correctness Jan 11 09:18:21 *They can be compared to src/share/javavm/test/TestExpectedResult Jan 11 09:19:13 dotblank: nice Jan 11 09:20:41 now what.. I had no idea why i started doing this Jan 11 09:23:57 morning Jan 11 09:24:17 crashanddie, failed logins show an IP for me Jan 11 09:24:31 MohammadAG, yeah, it's someone in Germany Jan 11 09:24:34 hahaha. maybe compare size / feature completeness / performance to other java implementations you might find in the repositories Jan 11 09:24:46 * MohammadAG glares at DocScrutinizer Jan 11 09:24:49 haha Jan 11 09:25:35 DocScrutinizer, you twied to blame the wabbits Jan 11 09:26:52 MohammadAG: what's been the catch with call-ui not rotating unless you open a menu? Jan 11 09:27:22 DocScrutinizer, you restarded hildon-desktop with a killall Jan 11 09:27:33 reboot required to fix it Jan 11 09:27:34 thanks :-D Jan 11 09:27:50 I found a workaround for it btw Jan 11 09:28:10 before doing a killall, put the desktop in portrait mode (open phone app or sth) Jan 11 09:28:11 what does it cause first instance? Jan 11 09:28:16 then do the killall Jan 11 09:28:32 hmm? Jan 11 09:28:42 if you do the killall rotation won't happen properly Jan 11 09:28:55 when you open a dialog, you'll notice it flips Jan 11 09:29:11 but X and the tasks button are still wide Jan 11 09:29:34 (they shrink from their normal size in proper portrait mode) Jan 11 09:30:14 but what fsckd my X up? Jan 11 09:30:19 or my HD Jan 11 09:30:38 you didn't kill it? Jan 11 09:30:44 not yet Jan 11 09:30:56 no, killing it does this Jan 11 09:31:02 ooh Jan 11 09:31:09 I didn't kill HD Jan 11 09:31:11 so it must've crashed, or you killed it Jan 11 09:31:22 crash maybe Jan 11 09:31:27 maybe ... err yes it crashed Jan 11 09:31:37 I recall Jan 11 09:31:39 it happened to me once, with ctrl+bs thingy Jan 11 09:31:59 anyway, thanks. I'll try if I can fix it with another kill Jan 11 09:32:10 yes, same here Jan 11 09:32:16 sleep 10; killall hildon-desktop Jan 11 09:32:26 o/ (breakfast) Jan 11 09:32:28 during the 10s, put the desktop in portrait mode Jan 11 09:32:35 k, Jan 11 09:32:38 might fix it, or not Jan 11 09:33:40 is there a way to stop the display rotating - fix it in landscape? Jan 11 09:34:09 only one unclean way Jan 11 09:34:12 stop mce Jan 11 09:34:19 my n900 spends so much time trying to keep up with rotations when I am getting it out of my pocket to answer a call Jan 11 09:34:36 ah, that Jan 11 09:34:45 i just fixed it to portrait mode Jan 11 09:34:53 in phone settings Jan 11 09:35:12 Oooo... let's look in there :) Jan 11 09:36:25 MohammadAG: phone settings doesnot appear to have that option :( Jan 11 09:36:30 ok.. I hat java applets Jan 11 09:36:36 they do lol Jan 11 09:36:38 how do I run one from the command line? Jan 11 09:37:04 jpinx-eeepc, start the phone app Jan 11 09:37:07 tap the title bar Jan 11 09:37:19 turning control, first combobox Jan 11 09:37:28 MohammadAG: gotcha ;) thanks Jan 11 10:07:24 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> Dotblank - sorry I seem to have given you more of a challenge than i realised! Jan 11 10:07:43 [DrkGUNMAN-N900], I got it working Jan 11 10:08:14 just not midp because I have no really idea what on earth midp means Jan 11 10:08:23 idea really* Jan 11 10:09:41 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> i guess thr best way to test this would be to get Opera Mini 4 working :) Jan 11 10:09:48 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> is it easy enough to package? Jan 11 10:10:31 hmm Jan 11 10:10:33 lets see Jan 11 10:10:44 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=221224 Jan 11 10:10:59 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> direct downloads for all opera mini versions Jan 11 10:12:11 ok yea.. I can't start or urun it yet Jan 11 10:12:16 or I don't know how Jan 11 10:12:23 I need to build midp Jan 11 10:12:52 or figure out how this works... it doesn't run with a Main-class in the manifest its some midlet vodoo Jan 11 10:12:58 voodoo Jan 11 10:25:53 i'm exhausted I feel like a zombie.. i'm going to bed Jan 11 10:26:30 [DrkGUNMAN-N900], if you wan't to play around with j2me on the n900 you can download it from the forum post Jan 11 10:27:48 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> one more useful link i googled... Jan 11 10:27:51 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/60613 Jan 11 10:28:14 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> and thank you for having a look! Jan 11 10:29:06 i want to encrypt my home folder on my maemo 5 / n900 like shown here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66997 . i want to solve the problem that no password can be asked at boot time due the lack of a framebuffer. What is the name of the application that asks for the pin (not sim pin) at startup. i thought of generate a md5 hash from the pin that unlocks the device, and set up a shell command that unlocks the crypted user dir. Can som Jan 11 10:29:06 ebody give me some hints where to start? Or what is a good way to get a passwd input at bootup? Thanks Jan 11 10:30:17 You realise that offers no security at all, right? Jan 11 10:30:59 Maximum pin is 8 digits -> log2(10^8) -> 27 bits. Jan 11 10:32:57 FauxFaux: a key file on the device has no security, yes. Or what do you mean? Jan 11 10:33:48 No, a pin number offers no entropy so no security. Jan 11 10:34:40 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Mobileandembedded/PhoneMEAdvancedPlatformsNokia800 Jan 11 10:35:09 FauxFaux: it provides the level of security that i need. Its much better that using a keyfile Jan 11 10:36:13 FauxFaux: but you are right, its not the best solution. How can i get a keyboard input at boot time without a started x server? Jan 11 10:37:41 study how linux drive encryption works Jan 11 10:38:34 pupnik: i know how it works for my purpose, the problem is to get a user input at boot time. Jan 11 10:39:13 how does it work on desktop linux? Jan 11 10:41:25 pupnik: You have vconsoles during boot. Jan 11 10:41:30 pupnik: before the user folder gets mounted you will be asked via framebuffer (or splash screen on dists like ubuntu) to input a passphrase Jan 11 10:43:09 FauxFaux: i google it Jan 11 10:44:53 FauxFaux: i cannot find vconsole, what do you mean? i have found something about xvfb, what maybe is an option Jan 11 10:45:04 well you don't need framebuffer if you know that you need to enter a pwd Jan 11 10:45:13 blackscreen is fine Jan 11 10:46:46 also I don't get it where's the problem with lockcode Jan 11 10:46:49 hmm Jan 11 10:46:53 anyone used QFileDialog on maemo? Jan 11 10:46:59 I thought it should use the hildon one... Jan 11 10:47:36 just kick out the mass storage mode Jan 11 10:47:48 DocScrutinizer51: The digit limit is too low? Jan 11 10:49:40 FauxFaux: well, you have to enter the right digits anyway Jan 11 10:49:46 aiui Jan 11 10:50:02 pupnik: hmm, maybe thats an option. Jan 11 10:50:23 DocScrutinizer: what is lockcode? cant find a package with that name Jan 11 10:50:25 otherwise you have no access to device directly, only an possible ssh and mass storage Jan 11 10:50:47 it's in settings of default Jan 11 10:50:54 DocScrutinizer51: Yeah, but anything under about a 15 digit pincode makes encrypting the filesystem entirely pointless against an offline attack (i.e. the only kind when you'd be looking at the filesystem). Jan 11 10:51:11 Oh, you mean lockcode in general, not lockcode as the LUKS password. :P Jan 11 10:51:13 why encrypt the fs? Jan 11 10:51:22 'cos you're MAD. Jan 11 10:51:58 no, you're confused Jan 11 10:52:12 DocScrutinizer51: have some ssh keys and passwords in browser from business customers server on my device. i simply want to protect them in case i loose it Jan 11 10:52:51 yes. so how would a possible attacker get access? Jan 11 10:53:16 screen and kbd are locked Jan 11 10:53:30 DocScrutinizer51: take out the storage chip and dump it Jan 11 10:53:37 meh Jan 11 10:53:45 :D Jan 11 10:54:04 If only ssh keys supported passwords. Jan 11 10:54:11 ok, that's a level of security you won't achieve even with your encryption Jan 11 10:55:11 DocScrutinizer51: if i found a way to give a passwd to cryptsetup, than its really secure. Jan 11 10:55:17 the problem is flashing mode Jan 11 10:56:16 DocScrutinizer51: User data stays while the system gets overriden, yes Jan 11 10:56:25 yes Jan 11 10:56:39 you even can boot a rescue initrd Jan 11 10:57:03 so encrypt the user folder does make sense in my opinion Jan 11 10:57:19 yes Jan 11 10:58:20 you can crypt some other storage area though and keep secret stuff tjere Jan 11 10:58:45 DocScrutinizer51: thats plan b Jan 11 10:58:48 this can be done *after* normal user login Jan 11 10:59:16 anyone know how to copy a link in a webpage and paste it in irssi? Jan 11 10:59:24 DocScrutinizer51:but i am willing to search for a solution with plan a Jan 11 10:59:48 blind typing is best I can think of Jan 11 10:59:55 noodles900: select it, ctrl + c Jan 11 11:00:19 DocScrutinizer51: testing this will take some time . . . Jan 11 11:00:51 noodles, hold your finger/stylus down over the link to open context menu, choose "copy link address" Jan 11 11:00:51 I can "copy lin location" but Ctrl-v does not paste it Jan 11 11:01:46 noodles, ctrl+v doesn't work in terminal, you need to access "paste" from the menu Jan 11 11:01:58 DocScrutinizer51: do you know how the pin input app on boot is called? (not the sim unlock) i like the idea of generate the md5 hash of unlocking pin and use that as key. Jan 11 11:01:59 in irssi? that's xterm, no? Jan 11 11:02:04 ah-ha Jan 11 11:03:00 inz: thanks :D Jan 11 11:03:08 derknecht: bad idea. lockcode is easily john'd from sha in cal partition Jan 11 11:05:15 DocScrutinizer51: All python qt stuff will not work to get an text input cause there is no x at this time Jan 11 11:05:26 yes Jan 11 11:05:56 DocScrutinizer51: how the lockcode dialog is written? it runs without x Jan 11 11:06:15 I think I heard they are using a special matchbox x server for that Jan 11 11:08:04 search chan log for matchbox Jan 11 11:08:30 bbl Jan 11 11:09:35 * timeless_mbp frowns Jan 11 11:09:44 is there a boot-loop troubleshooting page? :) Jan 11 11:16:58 grr Jan 11 11:17:02 yeah Jan 11 11:17:07 Q: My device is bootlooping Jan 11 11:17:13 the flasher 5 http headers are broken for http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.dmg Jan 11 11:17:14 A: kill the fucking watchdog Jan 11 11:17:34 it downloaded as: "maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.dmg"attachment Jan 11 11:18:59 hi Jan 11 11:21:44 My N900 finally arrived, now I need to figure out what to do with it :) Jan 11 11:23:30 * timeless_mbp grumbles Jan 11 11:23:41 Flash-3.5 has a x86_64 mach-o component Jan 11 11:23:46 but libusb doesn't seem to ahve one Jan 11 11:31:36 where do I get the N900 SDK? Jan 11 11:32:36 ok, so my n900 isn't booting past nolo Jan 11 11:32:41 it shows me the green text and then reboots Jan 11 11:35:21 could be kernel issue Jan 11 11:37:04 this is using the pr1.3 sales kernel Jan 11 11:37:12 it had no rd mode flags until i added some Jan 11 11:37:56 sp3000: you in the area of your apt? Jan 11 11:41:25 jonwil: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/c05693a1-265c-4c7f-a389-fc227db4c465/Maemo_5_SDK.html Jan 11 11:43:03 Is the software revision offered by Nokia Software Update the one I should be running? Jan 11 11:43:57 anyone here ever use ./flasher-3.5 -F ... -l <- instead of -f ? Jan 11 11:44:52 what is steady orange led while off and on wall charger and does anyone know where the patterns are written down? Jan 11 11:45:09 charging? Jan 11 11:45:14 steady green = charged Jan 11 11:45:30 steady orange != pulsing orange Jan 11 11:46:37 * timeless_mbp got a fading yellow :o Jan 11 11:47:02 hmmm, damn, I need to get my Gentoo box working again before I can get MAEMO SDK working Jan 11 11:47:44 ok, flashing the rootfs gave me something Jan 11 11:47:52 except um.. the startup wizard is slow ? Jan 11 11:48:09 * timeless_mbp needs to clear-rd-flags Jan 11 11:49:10 grr Jan 11 11:49:29 why am i getting "Memory card not available.\nUSB cable connected." I'm using PC Suite mode! Jan 11 11:49:32 * timeless_mbp kicks something Jan 11 11:49:58 timeless_mbp: or fading yellow != steady orange Jan 11 11:50:08 was it emergency charging from flat? Jan 11 11:50:24 chem|st: possibly Jan 11 11:50:40 so um Jan 11 11:50:43 * timeless_mbp frowns Jan 11 11:50:54 is it possible to not have an eMMC? :) Jan 11 11:52:07 where would i find the eMMC in dmesg? :( Jan 11 11:55:57 timeless_mbp: pls elaborate Jan 11 11:56:29 MyDocs doesn't seem to exist Jan 11 11:56:41 uh Jan 11 11:57:23 it should be /dev/mcblk1 Jan 11 11:57:35 got no n900 atm so cannot look it up Jan 11 11:58:07 cat proc/mtd migt help too Jan 11 11:58:36 * timeless_mbp kinda wants it back.... Jan 11 11:58:36 yeah, um... Jan 11 11:58:36 file manager says "(no files/folders)" Jan 11 11:58:36 and it isn't plugged into anything Jan 11 11:58:52 the devices are there? Jan 11 11:59:04 bootloader, config, log, kernel, initfs, rootfs Jan 11 11:59:07 what am i looking for? Jan 11 11:59:28 ok mtd is the core flash... Jan 11 11:59:40 no /dev/mm* Jan 11 11:59:49 you are looking for some mmcblk1 Jan 11 12:00:02 there's a lot of /dev/mmcblk* in my working device Jan 11 12:00:11 so.. did this device really lose its mmc? :) Jan 11 12:00:23 ah wait it is mmcblk0 Jan 11 12:00:32 mmcblk1 is the external flash Jan 11 12:00:45 right, my working device has both 0 and 1 Jan 11 12:00:50 my non working device has none Jan 11 12:00:59 Just restart your device, that fixed the issue for me. Jan 11 12:01:06 is there home? (without home it would not boot...) Jan 11 12:01:09 already did that Jan 11 12:01:24 df . shows rootfs / Jan 11 12:01:25 Oh, you're probably screwed then :d Jan 11 12:01:48 home and MyDocs are on the same device just different partitions Jan 11 12:02:18 all i have is rootfs, ubi0:rootfs, tmpfs, tmpfs, none, tmpfs Jan 11 12:02:58 And no mmcblk0 device node? Jan 11 12:03:04 you might want to reflash to factory defaults (vanilla emmc withour -R option and then rootfs with -R) Jan 11 12:03:08 alterego: correct Jan 11 12:03:14 What about cat /proc/partitions Jan 11 12:03:23 and no mmcblk1? Jan 11 12:03:35 correct Jan 11 12:03:39 and this is an N900? Jan 11 12:03:52 n900 Jan 11 12:03:58 "major minor #blocks name Jan 11 12:04:01 Nokia Care (tm) ... (Or do they?) Jan 11 12:04:03 Replacement time Jan 11 12:04:03 " Jan 11 12:04:05 $ Jan 11 12:04:10 it should actualy bootloop in this state... Jan 11 12:04:20 no Jan 11 12:04:24 chem|st: no Jan 11 12:04:27 MohammadAG: where do I request a patch to be merged into the community SSU? Jan 11 12:04:29 it would show 400MBs in settings Jan 11 12:04:34 chem|st: it *was* boot looping Jan 11 12:04:37 until i flashed rootfs Jan 11 12:04:38 you can boot rootfs only images fine. Jan 11 12:04:40 thp, just send it on gitorious Jan 11 12:04:57 anyway, the lack of the eMMC explains why it was bootlooping :) Jan 11 12:04:57 MohammadAG: do you have a quick link to the project on gitorious? Jan 11 12:05:00 thp, you're not in #maemo-ssu ? :) Jan 11 12:05:00 * timeless_mbp figured out that part Jan 11 12:05:13 http://gitorious.org/community-ssu Jan 11 12:05:22 MohammadAG: thx :) Jan 11 12:05:25 timeless_mbp, what does Settings > Memory show Jan 11 12:05:32 thp, yw :) Jan 11 12:05:41 thought that unable to mount /home would cause bootloop o_O Jan 11 12:05:44 an empty bar for [Device] Jan 11 12:05:51 and 78.1MB available for "Applications" Jan 11 12:06:16 details has 227.8MB for "Total size"/"In use by system" Jan 11 12:06:17 MohammadAG: ok, another problem. the patch is against "vte", which isn't yet a subcomponent of the community ssu Jan 11 12:06:20 chem|st, it'll just make a /home under / Jan 11 12:06:25 User files "1 kB", Avialable "1 kB" Jan 11 12:06:31 and "(no data)" Jan 11 12:06:39 MohammadAG: nice Jan 11 12:06:45 (i want to get https://bugs.maemo.org/6009 fixed, which has a patch that worked great for me for many months already) Jan 11 12:06:47 Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications Jan 11 12:06:48 hrm, this mbp's VirtualBox session isn't touch screen enabled! Jan 11 12:06:50 thp, ah, can you send a .patch? I'll upload vte to git and patch it Jan 11 12:06:54 * timeless_mbp tried to tap the screen to wake it up... Jan 11 12:07:10 MohammadAG: sure, where to? Jan 11 12:07:13 poke it Jan 11 12:07:38 * timeless_mbp ponders Jan 11 12:07:38 sec, lemme check if vte is already on maemo's git Jan 11 12:07:40 MohammadAG: grab it from https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=2562 Jan 11 12:08:56 right, so... what should i do? :) Jan 11 12:09:26 and no, i don't have a sales slip for it Jan 11 12:16:35 thp, http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/vte Jan 11 12:17:00 hmm, what's the syntax for git commit --author? Jan 11 12:17:05 MohammadAG: thanks :) will submit a merge request there Jan 11 12:17:16 MohammadAG: git commit --author='First Last ' Jan 11 12:17:32 thp, then I'll commit it myself ;) Jan 11 12:17:47 MohammadAG: Ah, you've seen :-) Jan 11 12:18:06 thp, what's your email again? :) Jan 11 12:18:13 MohammadAG: and while we are at it, https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1812 for https://bugs.maemo.org/7164 would also be nice Jan 11 12:18:15 Bug 7164: osso-xterm dark grey color shown as black Jan 11 12:18:17 MohammadAG: m@thp.io Jan 11 12:18:38 lol nice email Jan 11 12:19:02 (well, since your name is on IRC (/whois)) Jan 11 12:19:07 "Thomas Perl " this is correct right? Jan 11 12:19:21 MohammadAG: yep Jan 11 12:20:21 i've updated both bugs with a mention of the community ssu Jan 11 12:20:32 oh cool Jan 11 12:20:39 gitorious.org recognizes names and all Jan 11 12:21:25 MohammadAG: btw, the commit message mentions the wrong bug ID ;) Jan 11 12:21:44 does it? crap Jan 11 12:21:59 naw crap indeed, that's the attachment ID Jan 11 12:22:14 6009 is the correct one. git commit --amend + git push -f (i don't think it will matter in that short timespan that you "modify history") Jan 11 12:24:06 right, fixed and pushed Jan 11 12:24:21 MohammadAG: thanks a lot! Jan 11 12:24:50 thanks for the patches :D Jan 11 12:25:54 thp: (6009) I guess that's what I'm using as well since months with absolute success: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools . Does it work for you with PR1.3? Jan 11 12:26:08 timeless_mbp: no Jan 11 12:26:18 sp3000: heh Jan 11 12:28:46 DocScrutinizer: yes, i have PR1.3 and the fix. i don't think vte has been updated in 1.3? Jan 11 12:29:19 thp: probably not. I don't know for sure, as no 1-3 here yet Jan 11 12:31:17 can someone compile a Qt app for windows pwease? :P Jan 11 12:31:45 I just realized the libs are 300MBs Jan 11 12:32:15 a wabbit, a wabbit! Jan 11 12:32:54 MohammadAG: which app? Jan 11 12:33:39 thp, GUI for the PS3 package signer Jan 11 12:33:48 http://gitorious.org/ps3-tools/pkg_gui_signer Jan 11 12:35:21 MohammadAG: maybe unrelated, but it's been filebox' menu that crashed HD Jan 11 12:36:37 my comment back when: "yeah, I probably shouldn't switch a modal dialog to the background with ctl-bs Jan 11 12:37:34 MohammadAG: I look forward to seeing if an mp-fremantle-community-pr update works for vte with the shim :-) Jan 11 12:37:56 MohammadAG: Is the source which builds the meta-package in gitorious.org/community-ssu, btw? Jan 11 12:39:30 Jaffa: meh, I had to uninstall mp-fremantle-foo-pr-generic, to make HAM install *anything* after vte patch, iirc Jan 11 12:40:05 DocScrutinizer: Yes; because you've broken all the explicit dependencies and HAM gives up Jan 11 12:40:16 DocScrutinizer: if you apply the patches without changing the version number and then build the package and install it, it works ;) Jan 11 12:40:22 which is one of the reasons I'm still on 1.2 Jan 11 12:41:09 thp: I was lazy and copied in the binary or whatever. downloaded and dpkg'd the .deb? sth like that Jan 11 12:41:48 I'm reluctant to touch that sharp-edged scratchbox Jan 11 12:42:08 scratchbox is fine :P Jan 11 12:42:22 only if grinded to fine dust Jan 11 12:42:26 damn N900 battery Jan 11 12:43:22 s/grinded/ground/ Jan 11 12:43:22 DocScrutinizer meant: only if ground to fine dust Jan 11 12:43:43 * Jaffa wonders looking through bugzilla for things with a `patch' keyword which are unresolved. Jan 11 12:44:38 Jaffa: does "solved" actually mean a thing? Jan 11 12:44:54 REsolved even Jan 11 12:45:42 isn't it mainly a tag saying "we have a patch for that, maybe it gets applied eventually, for PR2.17" Jan 11 12:47:17 DocScrutinizer: Generally it should be fairly meaningful. If something's RESOLVED FIXED (or similar) with a `patch' it means it's been included in the source tree. Not sure how many patches there are for stuff which is open source, has patches, but has closed development and the bewer version is unshipped Jan 11 12:48:18 I seem to remember somebody here complaining about Nokia generally never accepts patches from community. And afaik most Nokia generic patches are not published on bugzilla Jan 11 12:50:17 well, I should stfu as I have no clue about it, other than citations of rant Jan 11 12:50:51 6009 anyway has been around since ages Jan 11 12:51:04 the patch for 6009 that is Jan 11 12:52:48 methinks it has been fixed for diablo Jan 11 12:56:52 the nethack devteam has listed tons of bugs as "fixed" or "Fixed", but the last release was 7 years ago and they keep their code private ._. Jan 11 12:58:01 :) Jan 11 13:15:28 kerio: seems Nokia maemo team - though officially discontinued - has the plan to top this record Jan 11 13:17:40 wait... Jan 11 13:18:17 timeless claimed there's a maemo team still, some months ago? Jan 11 13:18:46 what do they do? Jan 11 13:18:46 DocScrutinizer: Urban Myth. Jan 11 13:18:56 yeah, probably Jan 11 13:19:53 Of course they don't have a Maemo team Jan 11 13:19:58 or just a glitch of memory Jan 11 13:19:59 The Maemo team was renamed Jan 11 13:21:35 moot discussion. There will be no maemo update anyway. And even if there were, none of the rant started now will change anything about what's getting fixed in there Jan 11 13:21:53 Just join community SSU Jan 11 13:21:55 and stop bitching Jan 11 13:21:58 all of y'all Jan 11 13:22:02 Now get the hell off my lawn. Jan 11 13:22:04 who's bitching Jan 11 13:22:11 what are the plans for BME? Jan 11 13:22:21 plans? Jan 11 13:22:22 A nuke. Hopefully. Jan 11 13:22:24 There are none Jan 11 13:22:32 on meego at least, will they open anything? Jan 11 13:22:35 no Jan 11 13:22:42 They have already said so Jan 11 13:22:46 Termana, you seem very pessimistic, did the floods get to you? Jan 11 13:22:48 nuklear obliteration Jan 11 13:22:48 DocScrutinizer: I had a HAM patch, which I submitted through Bugzilla, included. Jan 11 13:22:49 :| Jan 11 13:22:54 DocScrutinizer: Two, in fact. Jan 11 13:23:05 DocScrutinizer: One of them changing the UI Jan 11 13:23:17 "I read from internet that i could get sorce code of maemo from nokia if I write a letter,the reason I want to compile it is that I need to compile a module into it.but I wander if it is possible to compile maemo onto n900 " Jan 11 13:23:24 * alterego sighs Jan 11 13:23:32 lol Jan 11 13:23:42 crashanddie, :p no - I'm just stating the truth, Nokia hasn't and won't change their policy on BME for current and future handsets Jan 11 13:23:48 Does anyone else use here clawmotia (mythtv frontend control program) Jan 11 13:24:01 trx: on meego there will be no open source bme either Jan 11 13:24:01 BME? Jan 11 13:24:12 batery management entity Jan 11 13:24:18 In fact, Nokia is going so far as to say they think EVERYONE should do it like them Jan 11 13:24:18 battery even Jan 11 13:24:22 Termana, how bad is it, btw? Jan 11 13:24:36 DocScrutinizer so there is no way for us to have proper host mode unless we write our own BME or am i mistaken? Jan 11 13:25:11 crashanddie, the floods? Well thankfully I'm unaffected. However, it's a disaster in Queensland, one had it gush in without warning, no time for evacuation. Jan 11 13:25:18 one town* Jan 11 13:25:38 trx: that's not entirely correct. Jan 11 13:26:12 I saw a video on the news last night of this guy sitting in his ute, and the water just comes smashing in and then you see his wind screen wipers go :p Jan 11 13:26:25 go as in, wipe Jan 11 13:26:34 we just need to get rid of bme for normal hostmode. Yet a bme replacement yielding better control would be fine, for special cases Jan 11 13:26:56 DocScrutinizer we only need a replacement while host mode is on and bme isnt working? Jan 11 13:27:01 alterego: Nice. Jan 11 13:27:08 what im targeting is charging while in host mdoe Jan 11 13:27:09 mode* Jan 11 13:27:12 trx: yes, basically Jan 11 13:27:39 Language barriers really make me angry :P Jan 11 13:27:42 trx: I'm working on that. It's not really hard to implement Jan 11 13:27:50 That and idiocy. Jan 11 13:27:55 When you mix the two ... Jan 11 13:28:29 DocScrutinizer oh, i didnt know that. Good to know Jan 11 13:28:49 if you need testers, im arround :) Jan 11 13:29:30 trx: I'm a week late on it, according to my own callendar. But it should roll out RSN Jan 11 13:29:51 trx, not very healthy Jan 11 13:30:26 trx, being a round that is Jan 11 13:30:35 :p Jan 11 13:30:37 Qt bme replacemeny anyone? .P Jan 11 13:30:48 WUT?? Jan 11 13:31:04 Termana yeah, i know :) Jan 11 13:31:22 why not LISP in a emulator written in COBOL? Jan 11 13:31:28 haha Jan 11 13:32:52 i seriously need to learn C so i can help out with something, or we should rewrite everything in delphi :) Jan 11 13:33:06 MohammadAG: and *you flamed me* because you considered shellscripts inappropriate? Jan 11 13:33:39 nah, I'd rather have it as a pulseaudio plugin Jan 11 13:33:54 aaah not THAT makes sense :-D Jan 11 13:33:59 now* Jan 11 13:34:12 i second the pulseaudio plugin Jan 11 13:34:17 MohammadAG how's media player going btw? Jan 11 13:34:18 .P Jan 11 13:34:24 I would had to be an outsider reading #maemo logs Jan 11 13:34:26 hate* Jan 11 13:34:29 :p Jan 11 13:36:04 we could use tracker to track battery charge! Jan 11 13:37:14 Mohammad:Hush, do not give Nokians wrongideas! Jan 11 13:37:15 that would be nice :) Jan 11 13:37:34 we should have Maemo team working on that :) Jan 11 13:37:51 On the other hand,we could rewrite Tracker in C#or Java for betterportability and to avoid memory leaks Jan 11 13:37:58 WOULDN'T IT BE NICE? =) Jan 11 13:38:07 oh yeah :) Jan 11 13:38:07 Java???!?!!?!?! Jan 11 13:38:28 why not ASM... Jan 11 13:38:30 :) Jan 11 13:39:21 assembly languages are outdated, Java, Python, and Ruby are the languages o the future! Jan 11 13:39:24 * RST38h cackles Jan 11 13:39:38 you got that right :) Jan 11 13:39:44 * phellarv shudders Jan 11 13:46:53 how can I tell on my N900 how full the battery actually is? Jan 11 13:46:59 All I get is a "charging" light Jan 11 13:47:26 there is a app that tells you Jan 11 13:47:39 doesnt it turn green when its full? Jan 11 13:47:44 is this something I have to install or is it part of the system? Jan 11 13:47:45 and some cli stuff Jan 11 13:47:54 batterygrap is good app Jan 11 13:47:54 you have to install it Jan 11 13:48:40 where do I get batterygrap from? Jan 11 13:48:44 I dont know how to install apps yet Jan 11 13:49:03 first time owning anything from Nokia :) Jan 11 13:49:35 ieatlint: ping Jan 11 13:50:31 jonwil: its in application management. But i suggest that you install also faster application manager cause the nokia:s default application manager is slow. Jan 11 13:50:56 ok, so what should I install then starting from a stock setup of the latest Nokia firmware? Jan 11 13:51:17 i.e. whatever nokia update installed for me earlier Jan 11 13:51:29 jonwil: "hal-device bme" Jan 11 13:53:22 ok, thanks, that command told me what I want to know Jan 11 13:53:34 is it normal that the phone takes a while to charge when it is first set up? Jan 11 13:53:59 and as if by magic it now says "battery full" :) Jan 11 13:55:54 ok Jan 11 13:56:00 I think my N900 broke Jan 11 13:56:20 that sucks :( Jan 11 13:56:27 [ 4367.525939] HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered Jan 11 13:56:32 jonwil: "Desktop Command Execution Widget" is good too, with presets for showing battery status Jan 11 13:56:33 and something else Jan 11 13:56:37 but it shows in screenshots, so Jan 11 13:57:16 http://i54.tinypic.com/2rvzl8o.jpg Jan 11 14:02:52 who's m.perez? Jan 11 14:05:00 who should know without context? Jan 11 14:05:29 m.perez should ;-) Jan 11 14:06:14 but to release the suspense: author of filebox Jan 11 14:09:39 anyway, kudos. FM done right. Would be awesome to get the whole filebox design and function as a replacement for hildon/qt/whatever fileselector.so, so all apps could profit Jan 11 14:20:56 "Koalas and humans are the only animals with unique fingerprints. Koala prints cannot be distinguished from human fingerprints. Luckily, few koalas pursue a life of crime." Jan 11 14:21:16 Something tells me that trying to identify Australian flood bodies using fingerprints might be rendered a tiny bit more difficult Jan 11 14:22:08 i dont think they use fingerprints for that anyway Jan 11 14:22:20 i think they use dental records Jan 11 14:22:43 crashanddie, I am guessing that its pretty easy to distinguish a koala from a human Jan 11 14:25:36 lcuk, depends, do you mean before or after the crocs had lunch? Jan 11 14:26:56 it's been a while since i've had a good koala pie Jan 11 14:27:22 I'm sure the crocs must be thinking the same. Jan 11 15:26:15 my gamegripper arrived \o/ Jan 11 15:26:25 time to set up the sdk and get some emus to fullspeed Jan 11 15:26:54 you're back :) Jan 11 15:27:01 aye :D Jan 11 15:27:15 you know, in the good ol days we had fullspeed snes emulation on the gp32's 100mhz Jan 11 15:27:26 and drnoksnes is barely managing at 600mhz Jan 11 15:27:28 geez Jan 11 15:28:01 MohammadAG: any luck with getting the rotation stuff to suck up less cpu power? Jan 11 15:28:35 nah, went to bed :P Jan 11 15:28:50 lol Jan 11 15:28:54 I'll poke around it today Jan 11 15:31:45 alright, ill see whether i can port some pandora emus Jan 11 15:31:54 the devs other there are hardcore emu coders Jan 11 15:35:32 so much work to do! Jan 11 15:36:27 diabol drnoksnes works fine for me without overclocking Jan 11 15:47:18 Gyjf: aye, cant say its unplayable. with sound, accurate gfx and speedhacks it runs good enough, but eats ~50% cpu @ 600mhz Jan 11 15:47:32 i just want to get rid of that last part :D Jan 11 15:47:59 i didnt play with sound tho Jan 11 15:49:48 you really should :D Jan 11 15:49:55 i mean, cmon, the n900 has stereo sound Jan 11 15:50:00 its *meant* for this Jan 11 15:50:43 hehe yea Jan 11 15:51:08 just beat the 2nd boss on contra 3 :D Jan 11 15:51:40 contra is full of win :D Jan 11 15:52:23 after updating to pr1.3 I can't use the camera anymore :( when I try to start it it says operation failed Jan 11 15:52:42 I had blessn900 installed earlier so I removed it now to no avail (it never worked properly anyway) Jan 11 15:53:07 any tips? Jan 11 15:53:16 weird, i get the same :( Jan 11 15:53:20 hmm, you might want to remove it Jan 11 15:53:26 *before* Jan 11 15:53:32 update Jan 11 15:53:45 both with bless and without it fails Jan 11 15:53:47 ...for the love of god, I do *not* want to update a third time Jan 11 15:54:00 it took me about 4-5 hours last time to get it working proper Jan 11 15:54:01 D: Jan 11 15:54:09 good thing i updated first thing Jan 11 15:54:50 is this cursen900 supposed to break everything Jan 11 15:54:51 :) Jan 11 15:55:29 I did notice some popup about fcam something in the update while it was reinstalling packages, apparently I don't have fcamera installed though Jan 11 15:57:48 is there supposed to be four instances of /usr/bin/camera-ui running at startup Jan 11 15:58:10 (I did try to start it though) Jan 11 15:59:01 also, when i try to launch the flashlight it says camera is in use by some other aplication Jan 11 15:59:36 joga: yes Jan 11 16:00:54 ive got 2 D: Jan 11 16:01:28 also ive got omap3camd running Jan 11 16:01:39 DocScrutinizer, so is it a known problem that blessn900 will break the camera? Jan 11 16:02:10 will killing those instances help? Jan 11 16:02:28 heh I can try Jan 11 16:02:33 nothing to lose I guess...fuck Jan 11 16:03:04 I doubt it'll help though Jan 11 16:03:10 joga: blessn900 is known to be incompatible with new kernels Jan 11 16:03:35 DocScrutinizer, even when it's removed? could reinstalling the (power) kernel have any effect? Jan 11 16:04:15 or is there some package to get the 'vanilla' camera back Jan 11 16:04:26 i've got blessn900 working on pr 1.3 o.o Jan 11 16:04:26 yes, quite probably will fix the issue, if you uninstall both fcam and blessn900 prior to that - afaik Jan 11 16:04:28 in case blessn900 overwrote something Jan 11 16:04:40 let me take a look at fcam.. Jan 11 16:05:30 joga: but better ask smebody else here. I'm too tired right ATM to give proper advice Jan 11 16:05:44 DocScrutinizer, ok, thanks a lot Jan 11 16:05:50 :) Jan 11 16:06:31 ah, in ham I see "fcam-drivers", though I don't think I've ever installed anything related to fcam Jan 11 16:06:41 but they're uninstallable so getting rid of them.. Jan 11 16:06:48 fcam-drivers is necessarry for blessn900 Jan 11 16:06:54 check tmo for threads about powerkernel and fcam and maybe blessn900. The issue is known and there are ways to fix it Jan 11 16:06:57 ok Jan 11 16:07:02 i didn't know blessn900 actually required kernel features Jan 11 16:07:05 I'll do the obvious first...let's see Jan 11 16:07:09 oh, it uses fcam, right Jan 11 16:07:53 joga: did you try unloading the fcam modules from the kernel? Jan 11 16:08:02 diabol I just removed them now and rebooting Jan 11 16:08:07 kk Jan 11 16:08:37 id like to fix this without reinstalling the kernel Jan 11 16:08:57 Gyjf, hold on..I'll see if this works Jan 11 16:09:03 what's wrong with reinstalling kernels? Jan 11 16:09:13 not a big deal really Jan 11 16:09:46 i have the custom one with injection/monitormode for wifi Jan 11 16:10:01 btw actually you only need to reinstall kernel modules Jan 11 16:10:21 uninstalling fcam Jan 11 16:10:22 yay it works Jan 11 16:10:28 pehw Jan 11 16:10:30 uninstalled fcam-drivers and rebooted, now I can cam Jan 11 16:10:53 \o/ Jan 11 16:11:23 while talking about cameras Jan 11 16:11:32 how do i use the front facing camera? Jan 11 16:11:42 Gyjf, at least skype and mirror use it Jan 11 16:11:43 theres an app called mirror Jan 11 16:12:02 can i take pics/video with it? Jan 11 16:12:17 and, how to actually videocall on the n900? Jan 11 16:12:23 while the true original mirror app is just a black screen Jan 11 16:12:32 :-P Jan 11 16:12:44 the app installer is slow :( Jan 11 16:12:54 Gyjfget faster app installer Jan 11 16:12:55 and the faster one dosnt work Jan 11 16:12:59 its quite fast Jan 11 16:13:01 diabol, iirc, you make a skype call and enable it when you're connected Jan 11 16:13:06 it doesnt? Jan 11 16:13:10 havnt ever worked for me Jan 11 16:13:19 I did try the video call once and it worked ok Jan 11 16:13:21 it cant fetch the list Jan 11 16:13:22 joga: alright, but i cant find a way to skype call somebody to his skype account Jan 11 16:13:54 diabol hmm? you're online in skype and you've put their skype name in their details? you see some skype call button? Jan 11 16:14:13 yea, but just skype call to their phone numbers Jan 11 16:14:19 o_o Jan 11 16:14:37 I've never done such a call, I dunno. I don't even have credits Jan 11 16:14:39 also it shows everyone as being offline, even if they're not Jan 11 16:14:41 it cant find pskill when i try to install it? Jan 11 16:15:02 shouldnt pskill be built in also? Jan 11 16:15:03 mmmh, modest does not fetch emails from my imap account anymore - it tells me it last synchronised yesterday, and nothing changes no matter how often I click on 'send and receive'. Any ideas? (account works fine with thunderbird on laptop) Jan 11 16:15:30 Gyjf: did you try it as root? Jan 11 16:15:35 yes Jan 11 16:15:47 hmm Jan 11 16:16:00 seems like i cant do anything from non-root Jan 11 16:16:14 wait, whats pskill? Jan 11 16:16:21 how about just kill? Jan 11 16:16:22 yeah Jan 11 16:16:37 never heard pskill Jan 11 16:17:22 or was that the obscure playstation killer app? :-P Jan 11 16:17:27 oh crap this is embarasing :( Jan 11 16:17:43 * Gyjf hides under a rock Jan 11 16:17:56 lol Jan 11 16:18:04 been using windows crap too much Jan 11 16:18:25 lets never talk about that again... Jan 11 16:19:04 about what? Jan 11 16:20:09 about me mixing up kill with the windows pskill Jan 11 16:20:19 psssst Jan 11 16:20:23 lets not talk about that Jan 11 16:21:05 ill try this mirror thing Jan 11 16:23:21 it looks daaaaaark in anything but really bright daylight Jan 11 16:27:23 sweet, frozen bubble runs pretty fast Jan 11 16:27:34 but somebody forgot to test it -_- no touchscreen controls Jan 11 16:29:15 bah, its so sloooow Jan 11 16:29:20 the program manager Jan 11 16:29:49 i should just apt-get everything -_- Jan 11 16:32:29 sweet, there is mumble for it :D Jan 11 16:33:04 All it would take to kmake everyone happy it seems, is an "accidental" leak of all Nokia N900 sources. Jan 11 16:33:19 alterego: yup. Jan 11 16:33:41 Though, I still think MeeGo is the way forward, but we need more devs improving the core apps. Jan 11 16:33:50 alterego: Including BT, modem, SoC boot-block, wifi, and all required keys. Jan 11 16:34:09 Oh - and full docs for the above too. Jan 11 16:34:09 Isnt the wifi driver on n900 open? Jan 11 16:34:13 So we have a viable future proof FOSS alternative. Jan 11 16:34:16 jonwil: No. Jan 11 16:34:23 I thought it was Jan 11 16:34:27 jonwil: I mean the firmware on the various chips. Jan 11 16:34:31 oh ok Jan 11 16:34:34 SpeedEvil: I'd settle without any docs tbh ;) Jan 11 16:34:36 jonwil: the firmware on the wifi card is not open. Jan 11 16:34:40 the gsm thingy would be nice also Jan 11 16:34:56 pfff Jan 11 16:35:12 The chances of the above leaking are ratehr small though. :) Jan 11 16:35:20 nah but there is s special kernel/patches to get injection/monitor mode working Jan 11 16:35:23 you couldn't use it even with full source Jan 11 16:35:30 javis[tab]... Jan 11 16:35:53 so i dont get what else you would need to have the wireless part open for Jan 11 16:35:59 Gyjf: AP mode Jan 11 16:36:07 it can do ap mode Jan 11 16:36:10 doesnt that work? Jan 11 16:36:10 ieatlint: have you got a tracking number for me pls? Jan 11 16:36:13 Gyjf: It can do ad-hoc. Jan 11 16:36:25 it can do normal ap too Jan 11 16:36:47 chem|st: mine arrived today, where do you live? Jan 11 16:36:56 alterego: germany Jan 11 16:37:09 alterego: that is why I asked Jan 11 16:37:12 I wonder if there is any interest in replacing closed-source bits of N900 OS with reverse-engineered open bits (specifically for lower-level bits like battery charging) Jan 11 16:37:22 chem|st: he sent them all out at the same time, so I suspect yours will arrive in the next day or two :) Jan 11 16:37:52 jonwil: there already *is* a replacement for battery charging Jan 11 16:37:53 Gyjf: I've never tried it - I thought someone said it won't do it. Jan 11 16:37:56 I've used them with his software, works well :D Jan 11 16:38:08 oh ok, I wasnt aware of the replacement for battery charging Jan 11 16:38:15 alterego: that has my mother told me once for a package that was 2 weeks on tour for about 500km... Jan 11 16:38:18 Though, no distrust to him, I checked the source for possible trojan before I ran it ;) Jan 11 16:38:33 with the special kernel it can Jan 11 16:38:41 you have to donate to get that tho Jan 11 16:38:55 jonwil: #maemo-ssu Jan 11 16:38:58 http://david.gnedt.eu/blog/wl1251/ Jan 11 16:39:35 i managed to get it running with airbase-ng Jan 11 16:39:44 Can never be too careful when using an always on device to read credit card information :D Jan 11 16:39:51 in any case I have been looking for an excuse to learn ARM assembly and some reverse engineering of closed-source bits of the n900 seems like as good a reason as any :P Jan 11 16:40:24 jonwil: yes, there is interest. Jan 11 16:40:30 Something that I think WOULD be interesting/fun/challenging to reverse engineer would be the binary blob for the GPU Jan 11 16:40:31 jonwil: mce is a worthy target Jan 11 16:40:34 jonwil: the problem is it's all in one nasty fucking ball. Jan 11 16:40:39 what is mce for? Jan 11 16:41:23 we have all kinds of reverse engineering for desktop GPUs (i.e. noveau etc Jan 11 16:41:35 jonwil: handles policies like power buttons, system ui status (statusbar) pulse audio policies for incomg call routing etc Jan 11 16:41:38 jonwil: dsme/mce/bme/phone UI/internet connection daemon - it's all one undocumented blob with poor or no documents on the interactions. Jan 11 16:41:44 Monitors modem for sms' I believe Jan 11 16:41:49 oh ok Jan 11 16:41:56 no way :D they have made an opensource ver of jazz jackrabbit :D *nostalgia* Jan 11 16:42:03 bbl Jan 11 16:42:09 I have never seen anyone interested in reverse engineering mobile/embedded GPUs for some reason Jan 11 16:42:23 Heh Jan 11 16:42:26 cause its hard i think Jan 11 16:42:57 jonwil: I'd be interested, but I don't really have the time :D Jan 11 16:42:57 jonwil: Yeah - it's a hell of a lot easier for most on a platform where they are familiar. Jan 11 16:43:24 Reverse engineering embedded stuff - you have to cross the 'it isn't a PC' barrier - which is hard for many. Jan 11 16:43:48 I think I might grab the relavent binary blobs (once I figured out which blobs I need to look at) and have a poke around in there Jan 11 16:43:49 so Nokia lied when in their marketing they said "Mobile PC"? Jan 11 16:43:58 I was bought up around ARM and non PC hardware, coming from an Acorn background Jan 11 16:44:13 GPU: no docs. RE GPU-driver: mission impossible Jan 11 16:44:15 there's open source battery mgmt available afaict Jan 11 16:44:23 just look at the android omap3 source Jan 11 16:44:36 bbl Jan 11 16:44:40 there is no such thing as "mission impossible" when it comes to reverse engineering Jan 11 16:45:13 pipnuk: does android do anything apart from framebugffer stuff in the gpu, tho? Jan 11 16:45:16 -g Jan 11 16:45:20 jonwil: I look forward to your reverse engineering of SIM secrets. Jan 11 16:45:25 bah, all just use jrbme-draft0, flavour ShadowJK with icing Jan 11 16:45:48 diabol: i don't know but this archos A70S is fantastic for battery life Jan 11 16:47:03 jonwil: the RE the cellmo firmware :-P Jan 11 16:47:20 not interested in the radio firmware Jan 11 16:47:30 or the SIM card Jan 11 16:47:39 or better even: RE NOLO, then RE the key to sign it Jan 11 16:47:41 so whyd you wanna re the gpu parts anyways? Jan 11 16:47:57 lol, anyone read up on how they got the ps3 rootkey? :D Jan 11 16:48:01 funny stuff Jan 11 16:48:09 I am interested in the GPU parts because they are necessary if one wants working 3D on alternative OS's Jan 11 16:48:41 alright Jan 11 16:48:48 and because it fits in with my interest in all things 3D Jan 11 16:48:59 :D Jan 11 16:49:13 stskeeps and crew seems has done quite most part of implementing GPU driver for OMAP3430 Jan 11 16:49:35 GPU as in frame-buffer or as in 3D? Jan 11 16:50:14 asl on #meego-arm Jan 11 16:50:25 ask* Jan 11 16:50:29 jonwil - a framebuffer isn't a gpu Jan 11 16:51:32 and aiui there's something between fb and 3D. Lemme think... was it 2D acceleration? Jan 11 16:52:05 umm Jan 11 16:52:10 how do i do static linking? Jan 11 16:52:19 -static ? Jan 11 16:52:23 :D Jan 11 16:52:33 ty Jan 11 16:52:59 jonwil: ever had a look at openpandora? theyre using the same chip with a community developed linux Jan 11 16:53:16 no clue tho whether they used the ti stuff or reimplemented the driver Jan 11 16:54:29 Ti stuff I imagine Jan 11 16:55:04 while re-implementing the driver is not all that trroublesome I guess, most of the functionality resides in the user-space side support libs and opengl implementation Jan 11 16:55:25 gles? Jan 11 16:55:35 yeah the driver isn't the hard part, its the x11 libs and the opengl libs Jan 11 16:55:40 glesticulation Jan 11 16:56:13 Hi Jan 11 16:56:23 hmm Jan 11 16:56:29 -static gives me an error Jan 11 16:56:32 god I hate windows Jan 11 16:56:35 does anyone know where i could get a maemo 5 rootfs from? Jan 11 16:57:14 docscrutinizer: yeah gles sorry Jan 11 16:59:00 anyone? Jan 11 17:00:21 gah Jan 11 17:00:27 QtCore4.dll missing Jan 11 17:00:41 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com MN_ Jan 11 17:01:07 cheers MohammadAG :) Jan 11 17:02:36 hmm there doesnt seem to be a rootfs for maemo 5 Jan 11 17:03:41 uh, check Maemo 5 Jan 11 17:03:42 it's 'zipped' into FIASCO Jan 11 17:03:45 above sources Jan 11 17:04:08 jhb: the answer is to use ip numbers instead of hostnames for the imap server Jan 11 17:04:50 jonwil: check. had a look at the github, pandora does use the ti binaries Jan 11 17:05:04 jhb: sounds like something blew chunks in DNS Jan 11 17:05:39 ah yes but i dont have an n900 so no imei to download :( Jan 11 17:05:54 DocScrutinizer: well, it persistet even after rebootin the n900 and while testing from my laptop using the same dns Jan 11 17:06:15 anyhow, me is happy to be in sync again Jan 11 17:06:28 somebody nessed your N900 resolv.conf? Jan 11 17:06:46 or etc/hosts Jan 11 17:06:50 or sth? Jan 11 17:06:51 hi Jan 11 17:06:56 n900 resolv.conf should only point at localhost Jan 11 17:07:03 yes Jan 11 17:07:05 It uses dnsmasq to do DNS Jan 11 17:07:16 127.0.0.1 Jan 11 17:07:23 how can I get the windows live web pages to show me the non-mobile version of the site? Jan 11 17:07:40 get the user-agent-switcher thingy Jan 11 17:07:52 hi SpeedEvil :-) Jan 11 17:08:06 any ideas :) Jan 11 17:08:17 MN_: for what? Jan 11 17:08:22 MohammadAG: how hard would it be to add widget lock mechanism to hd? Jan 11 17:08:23 hi DocScrutinizer Jan 11 17:08:24 hi Jan 11 17:08:29 SpeedEvil: just thought we should start a business with glowrings and gourmet raspberry jam Jan 11 17:08:38 :-D Jan 11 17:08:39 alterego: what mechanism do you mean? Jan 11 17:08:40 Venemo_N900: hi, well im looking for a maemo 5 rootfs Jan 11 17:08:52 MN_: see Jan 11 17:08:59 ~flashing Jan 11 17:08:59 [flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 11 17:09:17 alterego, widget lock? Jan 11 17:09:28 Venemo_N900: Basically a button somewhere that says "Lock desktop widgets" which stops you being able to move them accidentally. Jan 11 17:09:30 Venemo_N900, how do you use windows :P Jan 11 17:09:36 even cmd gives me eyestrain Jan 11 17:09:55 umm, isn't that already done alterego ? Jan 11 17:09:57 MohammadAG: hmm? Jan 11 17:09:58 gear thingy Jan 11 17:10:07 otherwise, mhd has a lock option Jan 11 17:10:19 MohammadAG: which is annoyingly too easy to accidentally press Jan 11 17:10:20 alterego: well the widgets can only move when you are in edit mode Jan 11 17:10:39 Yes, I'm talking about a way to disable edit mode. Jan 11 17:10:40 alterego, modified hildon-desktop Jan 11 17:10:50 made less crappy through the SSU Jan 11 17:10:54 It's been requested by a few people. Jan 11 17:11:01 DocScrutinizer, SpeedEvil: the resolv.conf (now) points to 127.0.0.1 Jan 11 17:11:12 windows's $PATH sucks Jan 11 17:11:13 no idea what it was before that Jan 11 17:11:15 alterego: I'll look into it when I get back my laptop Jan 11 17:11:18 alterego, yes, it's possible Jan 11 17:11:22 ah well, as long as it works Jan 11 17:11:26 MohammadAG: also, I think maybe it might be a good idea to reimplement contacts rather than conversations next. Jan 11 17:11:42 MohammadAG: my only OS for now is Maemo :P Jan 11 17:11:47 alterego, there's MyContacts Jan 11 17:11:54 could be improved Jan 11 17:12:01 MN_, I wonder if the SDK won't give you what you want :/ At least sdks from other devices tend to contain the filesystem of the target device Jan 11 17:12:16 else, yeah, why not Jan 11 17:12:18 Well, maybe work on that, I want a complete clone :P Jan 11 17:12:29 So we can add groups. Jan 11 17:12:34 or both, since they both tie to each other Jan 11 17:12:41 !flash Jan 11 17:12:42 actually, it's too bloated Jan 11 17:12:44 ~flash Jan 11 17:12:45 hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 11 17:12:46 MohammadAG: yeah definitelly. Jan 11 17:12:47 (MyContacts) Jan 11 17:12:54 "Bhutan police can raid homes of smokers in a search for contraband tobacco and are training a special tobacco sniffer dog in a crackdown to honor a promise to become the world's first smoke-free nation." Jan 11 17:12:57 KnightStalker, you say hi first :P Jan 11 17:13:17 crashanddie: crazy :/ Jan 11 17:13:37 can someone pastebin the output of "apt-cache search dsp" for me please? Jan 11 17:13:41 crashanddie: yay! Jan 11 17:13:54 I'd be happy if people wouldn't smoke around me Jan 11 17:13:57 smoke-free, porn-free, next thing they'll say sex-free, reproduction-free Jan 11 17:13:57 I just saw someone wants dspctl opened, but afaik it's already open and in a curiously named package, whose name I don't remember Jan 11 17:14:04 then the UK will get extinct Jan 11 17:14:10 Venemo_N900, then don't hang out with the cool people? Jan 11 17:14:12 I suggest they keep smoking allowed Jan 11 17:14:33 Venemo_N900, AFAIK, smoking is banned from public places (and most smokers won't light up if they're well behaved, and you ask them not to) Jan 11 17:14:34 alterego, MohammadAG: let's finish the mediaplayer reimplementation first Jan 11 17:14:50 ~seen ieatlint Jan 11 17:14:55 ieatlint is currently on #maemo #meego, last said: 'nah, some woman from arizona that i've never heard of'. Jan 11 17:14:57 I know I would never light up in someone's car, house / whatever without asking permission first, and finding an open window or so Jan 11 17:15:03 crashanddie: yeah, however noone tells them off in public places. Jan 11 17:15:10 because it's public? Jan 11 17:15:14 anyway, I think smoking is a sickness Jan 11 17:15:17 Isn't it supposed to tell me when that was last said? :D Jan 11 17:15:19 walk 5 meters? Jan 11 17:15:42 don't kill yourself crashanddie - vaporise tobacco if you're addicted Jan 11 17:15:51 Venemo_N900, addiction, not sickness. ;) Jan 11 17:15:54 tastes way better too - incomparably so Jan 11 17:16:09 Venemo_N900, if you didn't like the smell/sound of cars, would you ask the cars to drive some other place, or just move along the street? Jan 11 17:16:19 GAN900: addiction is a sickness Jan 11 17:16:25 and don't tell me car fumes aren't lethal Jan 11 17:16:34 i wonder how much compiling Qt would take Jan 11 17:16:38 crashanddie: I'm not telling you that. Jan 11 17:16:39 much time* Jan 11 17:17:09 It's a choice, and people should have the choice to do what they want as long as it doesn't directly harm others' Jan 11 17:17:36 All you can do is educate people and hope they make informed decisions. More people die from alcohol abuse than smoking. Jan 11 17:17:54 Yet it is much more socially accepted to destroy one self in that regard. Jan 11 17:18:05 Venemo_N900, I think smokers in the past few years have already given a lot of leeway to non-smokers. We're paying for our own healthcare (taxes), we're going outside a bar/pub to have a fag (alcohol and cigarettes should never be separated -- it's against god's will) Jan 11 17:18:41 I have major problems with other peoples ciggies - asthma - I'm really, really grateful for the current tide against cigs. Jan 11 17:19:01 in other words: I'm really tired of the smoker-bashing. If you don't smoke, fine, just don't tell me what to do. It's a public space, just shuffle away, or if they're friends, stay inside the pub while they go outside. Jan 11 17:19:10 maybe the card should go outside to smoke too? Jan 11 17:19:13 cars* Jan 11 17:19:55 US mil banned smoking in subs now Jan 11 17:20:09 and rightly so Jan 11 17:20:28 17SAAP4ZN, once more, and you get a +q Jan 11 17:21:03 vaporizing tastes so much better man Jan 11 17:21:12 not to worry, found it Jan 11 17:21:30 pipnuk, you sound like one of those "don't smoke cocain, snort it man, so much better man" Jan 11 17:21:36 yeah man Jan 11 17:21:39 haha Jan 11 17:21:49 duuude Jan 11 17:22:04 duuuuuuuuuuude, don't drink that last mountain dew, duuuude Jan 11 17:22:33 5000 cycles in Underworld 1 :D Jan 11 17:22:39 can we end the smoking discussion? Jan 11 17:22:45 let's talk about crack instead Jan 11 17:22:47 glagly Jan 11 17:23:28 pipnuk, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjXzBmAeBo4 Jan 11 17:24:01 hehe Jan 11 17:27:33 crashanddie: (17SAAP4ZN) uh? Jan 11 17:28:56 yeah crack Jan 11 17:29:08 amazing chemical thing. Jan 11 17:29:32 mix baking soda with cocaine to get a completely new thing? weird Jan 11 17:30:02 anybody tested smoking baking soda pur? Jan 11 17:30:05 * MohammadAG prefers a potassium + warm water drink Jan 11 17:30:07 explosive Jan 11 17:32:04 somehow it sounds as weird as injecting marijuana or smoking LSD Jan 11 17:32:25 annybody interested in helping out with hildon on other linux Jan 11 17:32:40 People smoke marijuana laced with lsd quite often Jan 11 17:32:53 It's not uncommon to have enhanced pot Jan 11 17:33:03 hah...right Jan 11 17:33:11 what a waste of acid Jan 11 17:33:33 gawd, just had the best tetris run so far. lvl21 :D Jan 11 17:33:46 diabol: you mean 'blocks' ? Jan 11 17:34:03 nah, tetris dx on vgb Jan 11 17:34:04 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9826 Jan 11 17:34:06 Bug 9826: Blocks collision detection bug Jan 11 17:34:06 ah Jan 11 17:34:16 Hah Jan 11 17:34:22 lol Jan 11 17:34:29 I'm thinking of writing a 3D tetris game Jan 11 17:34:44 As I've already got all the rendering done :D Jan 11 17:35:10 make a 3d of this http://www.geekosystem.com/xkcd-tetris-hell-game/ Jan 11 17:35:10 ;) Jan 11 17:35:30 :) Jan 11 17:35:31 the base could be a sphere... Jan 11 17:35:49 anyone here familiar with 1d tetris? Jan 11 17:36:06 hahahah Jan 11 17:36:15 http://www.tetris1d.org/tetris.php Jan 11 17:36:41 ~xkcd Jan 11 17:36:42 rumour has it, xkcd is http://xkcd.com/ or only the best webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math and language. Jan 11 17:36:47 you could implement accelerometer to try to jiggle the blocks into a row Jan 11 17:37:58 jiggle... and DANCE Jan 11 17:38:29 That's quite cool, the controls are a bit difficult Jan 11 17:40:27 W*T*F?!! xkcd.com freezing konqui (js?) on entering a single char to search textbox Jan 11 17:40:52 works fine on FF4 Jan 11 17:41:57 FSCK google search Jan 11 17:42:46 yeah, konqui JS is known to not support some mess that may slip through on other browsers Jan 11 17:48:11 I'm working on a small python app, but I really wonder how can I add menus to it? I mean, those dropdown menus when you click on the titlebar? Jan 11 17:50:18 Aranel: if you use PyQt, then the regular menus will appear that way Jan 11 17:52:19 Venemo_N900: Since I'm not any good at Python, I'm using Qt Designer and pyuic4 one-liner. Do you mean "Add toolbar" thing? Jan 11 17:52:46 crashanddie: works on FF, just I had a funny effect that suddenly autocompleted textbox to techsupport and didn't allow me to backspace, autocompleting everything faster than I could enter or delete chars :-P Jan 11 17:52:54 today's 1/11/11, just noticed that Jan 11 17:53:06 Aranel: I think there is an add menu bar option in Qt designer Jan 11 17:53:07 no, it's 11/01/11 Jan 11 17:53:17 Aranel, QMenuBar Jan 11 17:53:35 so evidently it's google search that has massive shit going on, and just konqui reacts more consistent Jan 11 17:53:37 ok it's 11/1/11 :P Jan 11 17:53:44 at least it's symmetrical that way Jan 11 17:53:57 Venemo_N900: MohammadAG: thank you! :) Jan 11 17:54:37 Aranel: you're welcome. if you have other questions, we'll be happy to answer :) Jan 11 17:55:47 * DocScrutinizer suspects google wants to push their new browser, so they introduce "issues" into google search Jan 11 17:56:07 :-P Jan 11 18:07:46 DocScrutinizer: I hate google's search since it automaticaly corrects for typos which are in fact not typos Jan 11 18:10:19 ok, seems someone's working on a Nexus S MeeGo port Jan 11 18:10:34 Venemo_N900: agreed :) Jan 11 18:10:37 might as well jump to it, the only that's annoying is that it lacks a kb Jan 11 18:10:45 MohammadAG: yeah, I read it on #meego-arm the other day Jan 11 18:10:55 MohammadAG: MeeGo is better without keyboard than Maemo :D Jan 11 18:11:18 MohammadAG: if I were you, I'd wait for a fully working port, especially in the telephony regard Jan 11 18:11:59 Venemo_N900, the port seems to be progressing faster tha the N900 adaptation Jan 11 18:12:20 This reminds me, I need to find a 2.5mm headphone jack. Jan 11 18:12:29 MohammadAG: that's because the guy started it maybe yesterday Jan 11 18:12:46 Venemo_N900, Nokia started in september i think :P Jan 11 18:12:57 MohammadAG: unless you want to turn to the dark side and use android Jan 11 18:13:04 MohammadAG: I meant the nexus port Jan 11 18:13:17 i know Jan 11 18:14:03 Venemo_N900, not turning to any side, I expected to buy a MeeGo device in early january Jan 11 18:14:17 MohammadAG, it's easy to port until you hit the accelerated SGX requirement Jan 11 18:14:22 I think his point is that initial progress is understandably superfast, its niggly "minor" details later on thatll slow it right down Jan 11 18:14:48 well that device is an OMAP Jan 11 18:15:01 so hopefully the N900 binary blob will work too Jan 11 18:15:22 but, I'm not sure I'd be certain enough to buy a phone on the off chance Jan 11 18:15:24 the Nexus S is an OMAP? Jan 11 18:15:28 yeah Jan 11 18:15:34 lardman, since when samsung uses OMAP? :> Jan 11 18:15:42 well, that's another plus Jan 11 18:15:47 oh crap, what am I thinking about then Jan 11 18:15:48 Omnia HD smoku :P Jan 11 18:16:14 MohammadAG, but that's since till ;-) Jan 11 18:16:30 they Hummingbird eats competition ;-) Jan 11 18:17:00 Nokia needs to start announcing and delaying already Jan 11 18:17:01 http://pastie.org/1444905 Jan 11 18:17:01 s/since till/till when/ Jan 11 18:17:09 my english-fu is poor today Jan 11 18:17:39 speak C my friend Jan 11 18:17:41 MohammadAG: that's generally expected to happen in a month though afaik? Jan 11 18:18:14 MohammadAG: it is omap4 though, so don't expect N900 driver compatibility Jan 11 18:18:44 what's OMAP4? Jan 11 18:18:52 dual arm core Jan 11 18:18:56 i thought it wasn't OMAP :s Jan 11 18:18:59 MohammadAG: you mean stop? :P Jan 11 18:19:01 no i know that Jan 11 18:19:09 but what's the device with the OMAP4 Jan 11 18:19:19 ok, I was wrong about nexus s, dunno what I was thinking Jan 11 18:19:31 though it looks like all the rest of the hw is supported which is nice Jan 11 18:19:32 MohammadAG, pandaboard :> Jan 11 18:19:58 smoku, Venemo_N900 mentioned OMAP4, what was the device he meant :p Jan 11 18:20:07 smoku, if you noticed, i'm on #pandaboard :P Jan 11 18:20:38 MohammadAG, i have a very poor IRC clients. I don't even see people hostnames :> not saying about chans ;-) Jan 11 18:20:41 MohammadAG: N900 uses a version of the omap3 soc, and the nexus s has an omap4 Jan 11 18:21:09 I'm confused, i thought someone just said it was a snapdragon Jan 11 18:21:14 huhh Jan 11 18:21:19 Venemo_N900, OMAP is a Texas Instruments thingy, not Samsung Jan 11 18:21:20 no it's a hummingbird Jan 11 18:21:27 I may be mistaken then Jan 11 18:22:03 eitherway Jan 11 18:22:16 i envy how other companies announce and release the week after Jan 11 18:22:18 wikipedia says, 1 GHz Samsung Hummingbird S5PC110 (ARM Cortex A8) with PowerVR SGX 540 GPU Jan 11 18:22:29 all hail wikipedia Jan 11 18:22:33 ah, so I wasn't wrong, though it was similar hw Jan 11 18:22:37 hello all Jan 11 18:22:37 too late in the evening Jan 11 18:22:43 i just got an new n900 Jan 11 18:22:47 but sadly no text to speech Jan 11 18:22:52 no screen readability Jan 11 18:22:54 and i'm blindf Jan 11 18:22:56 blind* Jan 11 18:23:00 any work arround it? Jan 11 18:23:08 then why the fuck did you buy it? Jan 11 18:23:19 crashanddie: is a gift. Jan 11 18:23:25 duuuuude Jan 11 18:23:30 crashanddie, be nice Jan 11 18:23:33 not the best idea Jan 11 18:23:42 see, DelphiWorld, I'm not aware of any IRC-enabled screenreaders, that do nick completion Jan 11 18:23:45 * DelphiWorld totaly agree with MohammadAG Jan 11 18:23:49 flite, but there's no system-wide integration Jan 11 18:23:50 <_trine> yes crashanddie that was a crap comment Jan 11 18:23:54 I'm not aware of any text-speech for n900 DelphiWorld . Jan 11 18:24:02 flite Jan 11 18:24:03 he's not blind Jan 11 18:24:14 DelphiWorld, since you asked for workaround... you may install eSpeak. but it's CLI only Jan 11 18:24:18 DelphiWorld: If I were you, I suspect I'd sell it. Jan 11 18:24:30 id buy it for $100 Jan 11 18:24:46 DelphiWorld: there is an eSpeak based apps that can read aloud the name of the person who calls you Jan 11 18:24:49 talk about tripping a blind man :D Jan 11 18:25:06 Venemo_N900: and about speaking menu... :P Jan 11 18:25:21 smileys? Really? Jan 11 18:25:24 I'd go for an android or an iPhone Jan 11 18:25:24 DelphiWorld: I don't know of any way, sorry. Jan 11 18:25:30 better apps for this kind of thing Jan 11 18:25:35 hehe Jan 11 18:25:40 * DelphiWorld allready have nexus one Jan 11 18:25:47 crashanddie: umm, what's the problem? Jan 11 18:25:50 There is _no_ speech support in the normal user interface. At all. You'd have to convince someone to add it. And much of the bits are closed-source only, so only nokia can. Jan 11 18:26:21 DelphiWorld: And nokia are not interested in doing further development on maemo - so the chances of this are approximately zero. Jan 11 18:26:23 crashanddie: I know blind person who uses "Irssi" Jan 11 18:26:25 hi all Jan 11 18:26:40 I know several blind people that use IRC. Jan 11 18:26:41 I just got on of those annoying ads call Jan 11 18:26:49 One that uses a screen reader at 600wpm Jan 11 18:26:53 well there is a11y (accessiblility) code in HD, but I don't know of a GUI that enables it Jan 11 18:26:58 any one know of a *working* call and sms blacklister ? Jan 11 18:27:06 maybe you could hook up a braille device using usb host mode and do everything from the terminal :D Jan 11 18:27:12 SpeedEvil: you can look up incoming callers in the address book and tts them pretty easily... Jan 11 18:27:26 diabol: yes but do the kernel support it? Jan 11 18:27:34 I tries catblock but it does not seem to be effective Jan 11 18:27:40 *tried Jan 11 18:27:58 Robot101: sure. But 99.99% of the normal UI is useless. Even making a call is going to be nearly impossible. Jan 11 18:27:59 DelphiWorld: just kidding, its not worth the effort Jan 11 18:28:00 http://top10.com/mobilephones/news/2010/01/android_dual_boot_for_n900/ Jan 11 18:28:46 cool, we can still buy incandescent bulbs in germany Jan 11 18:28:57 DelphiWorld: well since it is brand new, I'd sell it right away. Jan 11 18:28:58 pipnuk high five Jan 11 18:29:03 and doe there is ebooks reader but tts! Jan 11 18:29:12 :) Jan 11 18:29:13 Venemo_N900: ;) Jan 11 18:29:15 SpeedEvil: oh sorry, I thought someone was asking specifically to read incoming caller names Jan 11 18:29:32 the general a11y of the code is terrible - you'd have to dig around a lot in hildon and hildon-desktop to get anywhere :( Jan 11 18:30:51 Robot101: Something only going to get harder with QML, I suspect. Jan 11 18:31:01 DelphiWorld: apparently the N900 was not designed for visually impaired people, sorry Jan 11 18:31:09 is there a way to enter a WPA hash for a network instead of the key on the n900? Jan 11 18:31:30 the wpa key editor dosnt seem to work with maemo5 Jan 11 18:31:34 Venemo_N900: honestly... no only n900 but all nokia products is not for blind people Jan 11 18:32:33 a lot of males have some degree of color blindness Jan 11 18:32:56 DelphiWorld: yeah, although it is hard to imagine any meaningful way to operate a touchscreen without seeing its contents Jan 11 18:33:17 Venemo_N900: ok, go try iPhone VoiceOver and android TalkBack Jan 11 18:33:38 DelphiWorld: why would I? Jan 11 18:33:39 Venemo_N900: i use nexus one with issue less usage Jan 11 18:34:01 DelphiWorld: I have perfect eyesight, so no need Jan 11 18:34:31 "perfect eyesight" Jan 11 18:34:48 yes Jan 11 18:34:58 you dont wear glasses? Jan 11 18:35:10 no, I don't Jan 11 18:35:23 i think nokia never think about blind people... only ^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ $$$$$$$$$ Jan 11 18:35:31 Jaffa, qml has translation functions in. when i have a hand free i will dig Jan 11 18:35:58 DelphiWorld: okay, so then sell the phone for $$$ and stop whining. Jan 11 18:36:07 doe the GUI in n900 maemo is QT? Jan 11 18:36:23 DelphiWorld: yes, it supports Qt Jan 11 18:36:38 Venemo_N900: but the original gui is qt or gtk? Jan 11 18:36:38 Venemo_N900: dude, do you at least have a beard? o.O Jan 11 18:36:42 but most of the GUI is GTK, not Qt Jan 11 18:37:18 diabol: not right now Jan 11 18:37:39 Jaffa, timeless answered http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/%23meego.2010-12-27.log.html#t2010-12-27T21:57:26 Jan 11 18:37:52 Venemo_N900: duuuuuude, beard up Jan 11 18:37:58 ffsi Jan 11 18:38:05 Qt's still compiling Jan 11 18:38:17 diabol: sometimes I grow it, then cut it when I'm bored of it Jan 11 18:38:23 doe N900 support FM radio? Jan 11 18:38:31 ~ffsi Jan 11 18:38:39 ffs* Jan 11 18:38:40 DelphiWorld: yes Jan 11 18:39:01 DelphiWorld: unless it's hk version Jan 11 18:39:10 or some asian version Jan 11 18:40:02 DelphiWorld: what gives? no offense, but the n900 is pretty much useless to you Jan 11 18:40:27 ? Jan 11 18:40:38 lcuk: today i'm packing. I'm going away from home. there's a wedding, and i'm invited :) Jan 11 18:41:15 timeless_mbp, mazal tov Jan 11 18:41:31 crashanddie: yeah, we'll be wishing them that soon :) Jan 11 18:41:40 ++ thankfully you already pre answered jaffas question so its all good. have a great time \o Jan 11 18:42:03 * timeless_mbp frowns Jan 11 18:42:20 :P Jan 11 18:42:21 * timeless_mbp tries to figure out how to transfer an ssh private key to an ideapad Jan 11 18:42:32 ~ffs Jan 11 18:42:34 hmm... ffs is for f**k's sake, or for fine's sake. UCB's Fast File System Jan 11 18:42:35 scp :P Jan 11 18:42:44 find first set (bit) Jan 11 18:42:44 diabol: useless... but i will chalenge myself maybe helping other blind persons with my experiance Jan 11 18:43:10 * timeless_mbp frowns Jan 11 18:43:15 DelphiWorld, you may install android on it though. Jan 11 18:43:17 so, i just opened an at&t trouble ticket Jan 11 18:43:19 OK, I was hoping to wait this storm out, but it seems I'm going to get drenched. Wish me luck, (I really need to get new tyres on the bike) Jan 11 18:43:22 you know what i forgot to get? Jan 11 18:43:24 smoku: yep Jan 11 18:43:30 the phone number where i should use the ticket :) Jan 11 18:44:30 DelphiWorld whatevs Jan 11 18:44:50 diabol: ? Jan 11 18:47:21 what about a fm transmiter? Jan 11 18:48:55 DelphiWorld, yes, but the quality isn't amazing Jan 11 18:49:28 crashanddie: any page for guide to install android on it? Jan 11 18:49:44 DelphiWorld, sorry, don't know of any worthwhile reference material Jan 11 18:52:16 DelphiWorld, hello Jan 11 18:52:25 hi lirakis_! Jan 11 18:52:30 bye Jan 11 18:52:44 hehe lirakis_ Jan 11 18:54:34 ahh Jan 11 18:59:31 i think i'm going to flash it with android Jan 11 19:00:33 what Os nokia C7 is runing? Jan 11 19:01:13 symbian Jan 11 19:01:22 i found it \o/ Jan 11 19:01:42 skype video call only is an option if you open the contacts from phone app Jan 11 19:02:43 you can also tap the title bar and turn on video Jan 11 19:03:33 aye Jan 11 19:03:56 the problem before was that if you open up contacts it doesnt list the option to call via skype Jan 11 19:09:20 hmm, any app for maemo to somehow controll powerpoint as pointer? via bluetooth or (but less diserable) via wifi/network? Jan 11 19:09:37 Would it be unreasonable to expect to be able to install/run a N900 application (as it is, from a package) on a standard x86 desktop Linux machine? Jan 11 19:09:59 Oli`` yes Jan 11 19:10:01 yes, mostly because any N900 package will be ARM Jan 11 19:10:07 and not x86 Jan 11 19:10:26 Oli``: first packages for arm, then some specific maemo libs Jan 11 19:10:50 and then some maemo messy hackery :) Jan 11 19:11:09 not so much the libs but entierly diffrent CPU architecture.. Jan 11 19:11:32 How about a virtualised/emulated ARM/Maemo environment running on top of a x86/x86_64 environment? Jan 11 19:11:47 that can be done Jan 11 19:11:55 via scratchbox Jan 11 19:12:23 you can get it at maemo.org Jan 11 19:14:09 why do you want to do that anyway Jan 11 19:23:56 any mBarcode users here? Jan 11 19:26:07 lardman: I installed it once. Jan 11 19:26:17 and why did you uninstall it? Jan 11 19:26:22 It seemed to work. I haven't got it installed right now. Jan 11 19:26:46 oh and btw. as i still remember - anyone had problems with theme(changer/editor/whatever-its-name-is) like the desktop shortcut icons' backgrounds disappearing? the only fix i found was to uninstall the app and change the theme a few times... Jan 11 19:26:46 lardman: because I was't likely to do the required scripting to make it do something useful, and I had way too much shit installed. Jan 11 19:26:49 ok, so not something I did wrong then, other than not providing a useful plugin for you :) Jan 11 19:27:00 oh crap, so it was my fault Jan 11 19:27:03 oh dear :) Jan 11 19:27:29 * lardman curses the Qt documentation on DBus Jan 11 19:27:32 lardman: i found a tesco API now that lets me search on barcodes - looks interesting. Jan 11 19:27:43 lardman: Though above caveats apply... Jan 11 19:27:49 that could probably be pulled into a nice easy Python plugin Jan 11 19:27:53 but yeah Jan 11 19:29:14 I was actually going to add DBus broadcast back into mBarcode and was looking for someone to test it as my N900 is broken Jan 11 19:29:31 I need to write the code first though, so no rush Jan 11 19:30:49 :/ getting it fixed? Jan 11 19:31:10 I could probably setup a ssh or something, if needed. Jan 11 19:31:14 waiting for Quim to get back to me Jan 11 19:31:18 ah Jan 11 19:31:33 What died? Jan 11 19:31:44 touchscreen, LCD works, but no input Jan 11 19:31:54 Oh yeah - I remember now. Jan 11 19:32:07 Can you use BT mouse? Jan 11 19:32:17 dunno, do they work? Jan 11 19:32:17 I seem to recall someone saying that sort-of-worked. Jan 11 19:32:25 I dunno Jan 11 19:32:27 hmm, might have to get one then Jan 11 19:32:33 otherwise I guess the usb host hack Jan 11 19:32:40 Please investigate first - I've not tried it Jan 11 19:32:58 yep will do don't worry, thanks for the idea though Jan 11 19:33:26 lardman: you have a conference one? Jan 11 19:33:32 pre-conference Jan 11 19:33:38 ah Jan 11 19:33:44 apparently in warranty :) Jan 11 19:33:55 so I could just send it in I guess Jan 11 19:34:06 but thought I'd ask the powers that be first Jan 11 19:34:08 * pahartik wants to know if anyone has "maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_ppc" installed Jan 11 19:36:13 * lardman does not Jan 11 19:39:43 lardman: I would try whether binary works on "MacOS X 10.4" even though package is set to require "MacOS X 10.5" Jan 11 19:42:16 pahartik: not me Jan 11 19:42:36 I don't have any Mac boxes I'm afraid# Jan 11 19:42:46 or are you saying that's what you want to do? Jan 11 19:43:15 in which case it's probably possible to force installation, which I had to do on my 64bit Linux box Jan 11 19:44:32 * lardman finds DBus docs rather confusing Jan 11 19:44:47 lardman: it is programmed with cut&paste. Jan 11 19:44:55 :) Jan 11 19:47:50 lardman: What I am looking for is "flasher" to use to upgrade "Nokia N900 Maemo fremantle PR1.2" Jan 11 19:54:14 ~flashing Jan 11 19:54:15 i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 11 19:58:44 Lame, so I have to wait for this package to get imported into -testing before I can promote the next one. Jan 11 19:58:54 (the next package depends on it) Jan 11 19:59:03 That means it's going to take like half an hour :/ Jan 11 20:00:13 wowwww. Underworld is still very playable with stretching and hq2x filter Jan 11 20:00:29 O_o Jan 11 20:00:34 gorgeous Jan 11 20:00:47 what a great day Jan 11 20:00:50 on... n900? Jan 11 20:01:04 archos a70s Jan 11 20:01:06 ah Jan 11 20:01:19 but n900 + disabled pulseaudio would be similar Jan 11 20:01:27 @ 1000mhz Jan 11 20:02:04 underworld really benefits from the dirty rectangles rendering Jan 11 20:02:06 alterego: Upgrade would be easier if "SSU" was offered, but there is no known indication about what is missing... Jan 11 20:09:00 MohammadAG: I couldnt find the menu thing :| Can you help me about it? :) Jan 11 20:16:44 * Aranel wonders how to create a QMenuBar (dropdown menu that appears when clicked on app title) on Qt 4 Designer.. Jan 11 20:18:23 Aranel: just make a proper application menu and hildon renders it like that. Jan 11 20:19:00 alterego: I'm a newbie to Python, Qt and its designer, so I don't know to make a proper app menu :| How to do that? Jan 11 20:19:00 Aranel: you use QMainWindows' menu bar btw .. Jan 11 20:19:22 Hrm, I'll see if I can dig up a how-to, ang-on Jan 11 20:19:33 You're using PyQt? Jan 11 20:20:14 Hrm, I might have to write one :P Jan 11 20:23:20 alterego: I'm using Qt Designer and doing pyuic4 -x vodasms.ui -o vodasmsui.py Jan 11 20:23:50 Hrm, let me see how to do it in Creator then. Jan 11 20:24:08 alterego: :p somehow I found it by accident. Designer calls them "Toolbars" Jan 11 20:24:15 yay ^^ thanks :) Jan 11 20:24:43 No, not toolbars, it's the QMainWindows' menubar Jan 11 20:24:49 I hope you're using a QMainWindow btw Jan 11 20:25:36 Ah, it's pretty easy. Jan 11 20:26:24 Create a QMainWindow form in Qt Designer, click on the "menubar" item in the object explorer to the right of the editor. Then at the bottom there's a pane with a tab called "Action Editor" use that to create items. Jan 11 20:28:05 alterego: object explorer doesn't have any menubar item on mine. Jan 11 20:28:16 heh 4 fps in Arena Jan 11 20:28:23 Have you created a QMainWindow ? Jan 11 20:29:18 Aranel, using Qt Designer? Jan 11 20:29:33 alterego: New Form > Main Window? I'm already using it. Jan 11 20:29:36 MohammadAG: yes. Jan 11 20:29:38 is there any way i can config the front camera? (brightness) Jan 11 20:29:59 Aranel, in the side bar, select the mainwindow, right click it, create menu bar Jan 11 20:30:03 MohammadAG: has probably more experience with designer than me :) Jan 11 20:30:19 I'm more of a hands on man :D Jan 11 20:30:22 alterego, dontcha call me a noob! Jan 11 20:30:24 :P Jan 11 20:30:32 Hah :D Jan 11 20:30:45 MohammadAG: It has "add toolbar" and "create status bar" options. Jan 11 20:31:29 add toolbar option already adds menus compatible with Hildon btw. When I touch to them nothing happens, I guess now it's something to do with actions. Jan 11 20:31:48 Aranel: yes Jan 11 20:31:51 Aranel, Jan 11 20:32:02 do you have the Type here thingy at the top? Jan 11 20:32:05 of the mainwindow Jan 11 20:33:05 I am never, working on windows again Jan 11 20:33:21 MohammadAG: guess not. It's showing up as Object Inspector, seperated as Object and Class, nothing at the top of it. Jan 11 20:38:34 n900 doesn't support NAP? Jan 11 20:44:39 * Sicelo thinking to sleep now Jan 11 20:54:32 trip0: I think it is provided by "pc-connectivity-manager" Jan 11 20:55:17 pahartik, i don't see it as an exposed profile when I pair with it :( Jan 11 20:55:44 hey, so i was dumb and installed multiboot. how do i switch back to just the enhanced kernel Jan 11 21:01:24 trip0: What I do is just execute "sudo pand --role PANU --connect 0C:DD:EF:5B:B7:BB --auth --secure --encrypt --device 00:02:72:16:18:6F" and then "sudo ifup br2" on workstation Jan 11 21:02:42 ahh Jan 11 21:03:17 so pand just isn't running by default Jan 11 21:03:47 and/or isn't running in the right role Jan 11 21:04:12 pahartik, wouldn't you want "--role NAP" though? Jan 11 21:06:11 trip0: "br2" bridge contains "bnep0"... On mobile device, I have to "ip link set dev bnep0", "ip addr add 2001:14b8:15a:0:edd:efff:fe5b:b7bb/64 dev bnep0", "killall radvd", "/opt/radvd-1.6/usr/sbin/radvd --config /opt/radvd-1.6/etc/radvd-mobile.conf" Jan 11 21:07:31 trip0: Well, no... "Nokia N900" is my mobile network IPv6 router and Bluetooth PAN... Jan 11 21:07:46 oh Jan 11 21:15:14 trip0: Did you expected something of opposite kind? Jan 11 21:16:00 pahartik, no, i'm just trying to make sense of this document: http://bluez.sourceforge.net/contrib/HOWTO-PAN Jan 11 21:16:01 trip0: Did you expect something of opposite kind? Jan 11 21:16:03 open source arena gfx engine http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8516 Jan 11 21:17:21 nsfw, andwobble http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFN9OVqvGI4 Jan 11 21:19:48 trip0: I think same package does provide GUI for connecting to Bluetooth PAN router, though it is somewhat cryptic... Jan 11 21:21:49 lo....no matter what i do with a debian/contrl file...dpkg-checkbuilddeps always returns a syntax error....im using scratchbox, and im sure the file is fine, any ideas? Jan 11 21:22:41 windows line breaks Jan 11 21:22:43 probably Jan 11 21:24:29 MohammadAG: not likely, havnt used windows in years :) Jan 11 21:29:55 MohammadAG: it was way easier building a package for a smake project...just let cpack do it automagically ;) Jan 11 21:49:50 ok, i wonder if its because im missing dh_make ... within scratchbox i have debhelper installed, but listing the contents with dpkg -L debhelper, dh_make isnt included? Jan 11 21:51:36 kernel-power wont install.. Jan 11 21:51:55 power-kernel Jan 11 22:27:19 have anyone managed to get ettercap-ng to work? Jan 11 22:27:31 it says command not found via terminal Jan 11 22:27:34 as root ofc Jan 11 22:34:46 MohammadAG: ok, fixed by running dh_make outside of sb to ensure the files are correct Jan 11 23:15:36 any chance to find debug symbols @ bme_RX-51 ? Jan 11 23:25:17 blue_led: nope :P Jan 11 23:28:01 start to construct one. i ask because i don't want to invent "hot water". Jan 11 23:36:38 blue_led: eh? construct debugging symbols? Jan 11 23:36:53 bme is a closed binary Jan 11 23:37:04 What are you actually trying to do? Jan 11 23:37:38 maybe it could be loaded into ida? Jan 11 23:39:48 it can be loaded into ida Jan 11 23:39:54 What could be loaded into IDA? Jan 11 23:39:58 bme Jan 11 23:40:04 but symbols are not there Jan 11 23:40:07 ok Jan 11 23:40:14 blue_led: what are you trying to achieve Jan 11 23:53:21 Are there any kernel options I should enable to get the most out of my N900 on linux? (or any kernel options that will help with development for it)? Jan 11 23:55:13 jonwil: depends what you're developing. Jan 11 23:55:29 just general software Jan 11 23:55:35 If you're developing something that requires an absent kernel module then yes. Jan 11 23:55:54 I dont mean the kernel on the N900, I mean the kernel on my desktop Jan 11 23:56:01 i.e. things to turn on so I can talk to the N900 Jan 11 23:56:05 Why would that do anything? Jan 11 23:56:21 Well, usb networking is basically all you really need. Jan 11 23:56:27 ok Jan 11 23:56:51 And if you're using a relatively new distro you should be fine out-of-the-box. Jan 11 23:57:17 well its a recent Gentoo build Jan 11 23:57:54 God knows then :P Jan 11 23:59:02 pahartik: did you install pand from a package or build it yourself? Jan 12 00:00:05 which USB networking option do I need? Jan 12 00:02:21 MrBawb: Maemo does not seem to have "pand" but newer BlueZ implementation of PAN Jan 12 00:05:13 jonwil: just plug the N900 in to your computer, select pc suite mode and see if a new usb0 ethernet device shows up in ifconfig Jan 12 00:05:20 pahartik: oh, so that pand command was on your non-maemo machine? Jan 12 00:05:38 ok Jan 12 00:05:42 pand is deprecated Jan 12 00:05:48 Or, you can use wifi, and not worry about usb networking. Jan 12 00:05:59 ieatlint: got your present by the way :) Jan 12 00:06:00 ieatlint: what's the replacement for it? Jan 12 00:06:04 MrBawb: And on workstation I have used various versions of "pand" provided by Debian for PowerPC Jan 12 00:06:17 good stuff.. pretty quick for $3 in postage :) Jan 12 00:07:08 ieatlint: yeah, thanks, I tested your app too, worked perfectly using my visa card, I'll try some more stuff when I have the opportunity. Jan 12 00:07:35 awesome Jan 12 00:07:37 ? Jan 12 00:07:54 some credit card scams going around? Jan 12 00:07:56 MrBawb: i don't recall the daemon name, but the entire system was revamped with bluez 3.0 Jan 12 00:08:07 jacekowski: no, nothing like that :P Jan 12 00:09:05 ieatlint, MrBawb it's not a seperate daemon anymore, I believe it's a configurable module. Jan 12 00:09:21 At least, you just need to edit you conf file to enable it. Jan 12 00:09:23 well, maybe, did you actually verify my app doesn't send me your cc #? :P Jan 12 00:10:00 ieatlint: actually yes :P Jan 12 00:10:13 Turned off net and checked the source :D Jan 12 00:10:14 good :) Jan 12 00:10:27 No offence, but if you're not cautious :D Jan 12 00:10:52 what are you talking about Jan 12 00:11:08 ieatlint: give jacekowski that link Jan 12 00:11:16 I don't have it off hand Jan 12 00:11:23 http://maemo.org/packages/view/magread/ Jan 12 00:11:59 jacekowski: it's a magnetic stripe reader that interfaces via the microphone input Jan 12 00:12:28 yes, sorry, am slightly distracted for a sec as gf is bitching at me over IM :P Jan 12 00:12:35 alterego: all tracks? Jan 12 00:12:39 jacekowski: there's a company in the US that developed a card payment solution terminal for mobile phones. Jan 12 00:12:49 yeah i remember that Jan 12 00:12:50 cube Jan 12 00:12:53 or something like that Jan 12 00:12:58 jacekowski: No, I think it's just one. Jan 12 00:13:12 Might be two, Jan 12 00:13:23 ieatlint: knows more :D Jan 12 00:13:30 square is the company Jan 12 00:13:36 i steal their dongle Jan 12 00:13:40 the code is 100% my own Jan 12 00:13:40 Heh Jan 12 00:13:43 Can you decode barcodes with a N900? Jan 12 00:13:50 jonwil: yes Jan 12 00:13:50 but you can make your own dongle Jan 12 00:13:58 jonwil: check mbarcode in extras Jan 12 00:13:58 the application can read any track Jan 12 00:14:17 the dongle i've given alterego can only read track 2 as it is (but can be easily modified to read track 1 as well) Jan 12 00:14:31 mono audio input == only one track can be read at a time Jan 12 00:14:33 Neat Jan 12 00:14:45 Ah yes, didn't think about that :D Jan 12 00:15:22 Does it actually generate stereo output? Jan 12 00:15:35 the n900 is only able to do mono i'm told Jan 12 00:15:56 ieatlint: yes, I know, but the dongle generates two channels? Jan 12 00:16:04 but the code itself is not platform specific Jan 12 00:16:17 no, the dongle is mono, designed for mobile phones which are almost exclusively mono Jan 12 00:16:33 Yes, right, just checking. Jan 12 00:16:50 but it is very much so possible to create an audio dongle that produces stereo output, reading two tracks simultaneously Jan 12 00:17:11 I ran your app on my laptop too btw :D Jan 12 00:17:27 may or may not work on laptop :P Jan 12 00:17:31 it's hardware dependent Jan 12 00:17:50 the dongle is designed to work with audio jacks for headsets (mono input, stereo output) Jan 12 00:18:26 it won't work with a stereo audio input on a computer in my experience... some laptops do have headset jacks (my thinkpad does, and some macbook pros do i know) Jan 12 00:18:54 of course, it's a pinout issue... would be easy to change in theory Jan 12 00:20:25 ieatlint: what about sticking small uC in there and decoding everything Jan 12 00:20:34 and then transmitting it via microphone Jan 12 00:21:21 would require i design my own hardware Jan 12 00:21:42 and would be much more difficult for others to duplicate than a cassette tape head + resistor Jan 12 00:21:43 what are you waiting for Jan 12 00:22:12 (that's all the dongle that reads it is -- cassette tape head and a resistor to prevent feedback that would erase the magstripe) Jan 12 00:23:09 it would be nice to implement evm Jan 12 00:23:13 ITWM capacitor Jan 12 00:23:44 anyways Jan 12 00:23:47 good night Jan 12 00:23:50 night Jan 12 00:23:55 night Jan 12 00:25:10 alterego: if your id card has a magstripe on it, i'll likely harass you to give me the specs on it (nothing identifying, just the format so i can add support to decode it) Jan 12 00:28:21 ieatlint: I'll be happy to help, things like store cards and stuff would be cool. Jan 12 00:30:06 yeah, i have some ideas on how i can better format the page that shows unknown data Jan 12 00:30:07 ieatlint: I was thinking of implementing your code as a daemon which starts when it detects the headset and if it picks up a valid magnetic strip, starts up a finance app and displays how much it thinks is left in your account :) Jan 12 00:30:35 would be easy in theory Jan 12 00:30:48 Yeah, not sure how practical though ;) Jan 12 00:30:59 yeah, i wasn't going to comment on that :P Jan 12 00:31:20 But I'm brainstorming a mobile finance app at the moment so thought it'd be interesting. Jan 12 00:31:27 What's the best email-client with caledar? ms exchange or google caledar arent available. Jan 12 00:32:00 amti: we don't have one, we have a calendar and we have an email client. Jan 12 00:32:07 well, the code that's out is all GPL Jan 12 00:32:28 and i could be open to other licensing depending on the circumstances Jan 12 00:32:53 alterego, just talking globally - because you can install debian-packages to n900, I could sync that calendar from that to my phone Jan 12 00:33:20 globally is wrong term, but hopefully you got what I meant you to got :P Jan 12 00:34:06 atm I have calendar and I want to sync another calendar to my n900 calendar. I want to sync it because managing the calendar is much easier with pc and via some accessibble software. Jan 12 00:43:57 ieatlint: neah, I wouldn't use your code for personal gain and there isn't really any practical use for it except what square intended. Jan 12 00:44:10 That and curiosity. Jan 12 00:44:24 i have one in mind Jan 12 00:55:29 Heh, cool. :) Jan 12 00:55:50 * RST38h moos Jan 12 00:57:18 which free application is the best for car, cycling and walking routing on n900 Jan 12 00:57:47 dunno if sygic does car routing at all. Jan 12 00:57:49 with openstreetmap data Jan 12 00:57:50 err Jan 12 00:57:54 walking routing Jan 12 00:58:17 its not free at all? Jan 12 00:58:24 no - sygic isn't free Jan 12 00:58:38 well - it's free as in guantanamo. Jan 12 00:58:46 Heh Jan 12 00:58:53 i want a open source one with osm data Jan 12 00:59:21 i know, navit is usable, but not very good ui Jan 12 00:59:36 The data is good where you are? Jan 12 00:59:41 and maemo mapper allways use this damn tiling, doenst it? Jan 12 00:59:48 SpeedEvil: yea, perfect Jan 12 00:59:53 you want vector? Jan 12 00:59:57 Where are you - .de? Jan 12 01:00:09 tübingen, germany Jan 12 01:00:27 all around here, osm is very nice Jan 12 01:00:31 OSM seems to be an obsession with some in .de Jan 12 01:00:40 (not that that's a bad thing) Jan 12 01:00:57 Heh Jan 12 01:01:14 a friend has run out of stuff to map in his hometown. He now maps all the fireplugs. Jan 12 01:01:31 ;) yeah, i did more then 500kms of streets and ways in osm in my lifetime ;=) Jan 12 01:01:44 (they by default don't show up in the map, but the data is there... :) Jan 12 01:02:13 Fireplugs? Jan 12 01:02:23 Oh - you mean street-water-fire? Jan 12 01:02:59 the stuff the fire brigade connects their hoses to. Jan 12 01:03:14 http://osm.org/go/0Dh7Ff96-- thats one of the cites i did Jan 12 01:03:21 yeah Jan 12 01:03:42 http://osm.org/go/0DjAtY3p-- and this too - parents home Jan 12 01:03:53 Survey, or armchair? Jan 12 01:05:46 I've been mapping some with my n900. Jan 12 01:05:47 hi Jan 12 01:05:49 Maybe I should join open street map and start mapping objects in my area (or writing code to get a usable nav app on the N900 with support for Australia) Jan 12 01:05:59 some? Jan 12 01:06:19 mapping networks? Jan 12 01:06:41 is there dropbos for n900? Jan 12 01:06:41 http://der-eichi.de/sites/der-eichi.de/files/emedia-osm-3.jpg thats an article about me, explaining openstreetmap in an computer magazine ;P Jan 12 01:06:55 http://der-eichi.de/sites/der-eichi.de/files/emedia-osm-4.jpg Jan 12 01:07:31 but its german, sorry Jan 12 01:07:32 Can you read GPS coordinates in your own N900 software and how hard is it to convert those coordinates to OpenStreetMap coordinates? Jan 12 01:07:56 jonwil: EAsy. Jan 12 01:08:00 great Jan 12 01:08:12 jonwil: there is an OK mobile editor. Jan 12 01:08:15 osm2go Jan 12 01:08:22 jonwil: you record your gps data and then you open an editor, to "paint" the roads and tag them as highway etc. its very funny experience Jan 12 01:08:23 potlatch sort-a-works Jan 12 01:08:45 The existing camera app geotags the photos. Jan 12 01:08:48 Though suckily Jan 12 01:09:00 and osm2go is live-mapping. mans you can paint roads while you waling on them Jan 12 01:09:02 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6584 Jan 12 01:09:04 Bug 6584: GPS geotagged pictures truncate precision of GPS reading (0 decimal places) Jan 12 01:09:18 I plan on adding a compass to my n900, to aid mapping. Jan 12 01:09:27 One thing I want to look at writing is an app for reading Google Transit Feed data and using it on the N900 Jan 12 01:09:49 what about dropbox on N900? Jan 12 01:09:50 Check the TOS Jan 12 01:09:56 jonwil: you probably can't. Jan 12 01:10:20 The specs for the Google Transit data is open Jan 12 01:10:32 Wjhats google tranist? Jan 12 01:10:41 terms and conditions for much google data are quite restrictive. Jan 12 01:10:42 and many transport operators (including my local one) provide Google Transit Feed data files for people to use Jan 12 01:10:54 For example, you cannot legally cache google-maps tiles. Jan 12 01:11:07 The license on the files my operator provides is fairly liberal Jan 12 01:11:19 k. Jan 12 01:11:30 * SpeedEvil wishes his local bus operator provided live data. Jan 12 01:11:40 I have problems with getting stupidly tired when out. Jan 12 01:11:44 And getting on the wrong bus. Jan 12 01:11:51 This is ... not fun. Jan 12 01:11:59 Google Transit is a system where public transit operators provide data to Google (and optionally to the general public for use in other apps) that define routes, stops etc Jan 12 01:12:59 aha, Google renamed the spec to "General Transit Feed Specification" Jan 12 01:13:11 I intend to play with the "General Transit Feed Specification" data provided by my local operator Jan 12 01:13:39 Some of the stops info has been imported into OSM Jan 12 01:13:42 In some cases Jan 12 01:13:56 what about dropbox on N900? Jan 12 01:14:53 The first thing I want is something that lets me input a stop number and tells me what buses are due next (so I dont have to waste a phone call calling up the information line to find it out) Jan 12 01:18:12 http://maemo.org/packages/view/python-dropbox-client/ blackthorne Jan 12 01:18:40 I don't know if that's got a UI though Jan 12 01:18:44 or if it's a backend Jan 12 01:19:48 hmmm, the license for this data is surprisingly sane. It just says "dont use our trademarks without permission", "if you use our data you must tell people where you got the data from" and "no warranty applies to this data" Jan 12 01:20:07 jonwil: nice Jan 12 01:22:52 Hi! If I want to package an existing Debian package for ARM, where do I start? Jan 12 01:22:54 finally found a set of 4 wallpapers for my N900 that I like :) Jan 12 01:23:44 next thing I need to find for my N900 is something to protect it so it wont be damaged Jan 12 01:23:55 jonwil: I recommend a were-tiger. Jan 12 01:24:05 jonwil: Or a brigade of amazons. Jan 12 01:24:09 I was thinking more of a leather case :P Jan 12 01:24:19 well not necessarily leather Jan 12 01:24:21 Alternatively, I got a cheap crap case from ebay that works well. Jan 12 01:26:06 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-X-HARD-PINK-CRYSTAL-SILICONE-CASE-SKIN-NOKIA-N900-/330497690797?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches&hash=item4cf3328cad Jan 12 01:26:11 though mine were all clear Jan 12 01:26:25 ebzzry, well I would modify the changes file and make sure it gets updated to the right repo.. I would also use apt-get source to get the package Jan 12 01:26:27 * timeless_mbp curses Jan 12 01:26:42 my stupid lenovo ideapad decided to go to sleep in the middle of an scp Jan 12 01:26:50 should I be worried about fingerprints on the N900 touchscreen? Jan 12 01:26:57 timeless_mbp, :( Jan 12 01:26:59 What should I use to keep the screen clean? Jan 12 01:27:06 jonwil: a t-shirt Jan 12 01:27:10 jonwil: worry about scratches Jan 12 01:27:13 fingerprints aren't a problem Jan 12 01:27:17 jonwil: personally, I got a pack of 10 cheap protectors Jan 12 01:27:22 dotblank: Thanks, and with regards to written documentation, where should I begin? Jan 12 01:27:35 * timeless_mbp sighs Jan 12 01:27:38 jonwil: I've used a couple - for scratches that would have utterly destroyed the screen Jan 12 01:27:42 this stupid transfer should have finished by now Jan 12 01:27:57 * timeless_mbp curses insane systems Jan 12 01:28:02 alterego: More data on that crash Jan 12 01:28:04 ebzzry, I would just basic packaging skills then I would learn how to do maemo packaging Jan 12 01:28:17 ubuntu uploads video tutorials of debian packaging Jan 12 01:28:20 I will have to hunt around to see if I can find some somewhere reasonably local to me (ordering from Jan 12 01:28:24 dotblank: OK Jan 12 01:28:26 from Europe is too expensive) Jan 12 01:28:54 alterego: I have found that if you are not touching the device, Columbus appears to work. It crashes when you take the device and start rotating it. The compass starts rotating wildly left and right, then the application crashes Jan 12 01:29:21 jonwil: there are global sellers that ship that locally to you. Jan 12 01:29:34 alterego: From the lookof it, it may be dividing by 0 at some point Jan 12 01:29:53 well I have seen local shops that have 1000s of mobile phone covers and cases for all different models so I will check to see if any of em have one for a N900 Jan 12 01:31:09 jonwil: that works too. Jan 12 01:31:22 jonwil: I'd strongly recommend a protector, personally. Jan 12 01:31:31 screen protector Jan 12 01:31:46 I definatly intend to acquire a screen protector as soon as I can find something suitable Jan 12 01:32:19 RST38h: thanks for the info, I'll look into it in the morning. :) Jan 12 01:32:45 alterego: btw, I am still failing to understand WHAT the compass shows Jan 12 01:32:45 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6X-CLEAR-LCD-SCREEN-PROTECTOR-NOKIA-N900-/280538209916?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches&hash=item4151615e7c I got Jan 12 01:33:01 RST38h: It's the best estimate of the course of your n900 Jan 12 01:33:02 alterego: it seems to jump 180o in a second or so Jan 12 01:33:06 RST38h: your heading Jan 12 01:33:09 RST38h: walk forward a bit Jan 12 01:33:15 heading to WHAT? Jan 12 01:33:18 If you're not moving the gps error :) Jan 12 01:33:19 ah, ok Jan 12 01:33:33 RST38h: oldpos-newpos Jan 12 01:33:37 Soooo... it looks like that may be rhe crash reason Jan 12 01:33:49 I'll be adding a bit of intelligence into it before 1.0 Jan 12 01:34:00 I am rotating the device in my hands, but never walking with it, so it provides for some realy wild heading display Jan 12 01:34:04 And THAT may crash it Jan 12 01:34:06 Well, that shouldn't cause a crash, but we'll see. Jan 12 01:34:36 Yeah, the landscape portrait switching may be showing an underlying issue. Jan 12 01:34:54 But my accel seems to have stopped working atm so I can't test it. Jan 12 01:35:25 btw, can you use accelerator to improve heading display? =) Jan 12 01:36:01 Just rotated device into portrait mode, 5 seconds and...oops. Crashed. Jan 12 01:36:01 RST38h: basically not Jan 12 01:36:03 RST38h: no, but I can use it to detect real movement. Jan 12 01:36:33 RST38h: without other knowledge 'n900 is clamped into a vehicle' - the accel gives no orientation info Jan 12 01:36:39 Well, real acceleration, which may help in ascertaining whether I should display a heading or not. Jan 12 01:36:54 RST38h: As you can spin the n900 around the gravity axis without causing any accel at all Jan 12 01:37:27 true... Jan 12 01:37:57 alterego: another small suggestion - remove the word "Graph" from all the graph legends Jan 12 01:38:21 alterego: It is kinda clear that they are graphs :) Jan 12 01:38:59 RST38h: well, maybe not to some :P Jan 12 01:39:25 But yeah, I just thought it looked cool ^_^ Jan 12 01:40:12 alterego: AFAIK, it will look like "Aha! This translation string is missing!" to most developers Jan 12 01:40:47 Like the rest of the UI ;) Jan 12 01:41:18 There are no translations currently, though I will be supporting that in my v2 roadmap Jan 12 01:42:02 btw, have you seen Nokia's own Sports Tracker? Jan 12 01:42:30 Nope Jan 12 01:42:48 Well, I may have seen some shots of it a while ago in labs Jan 12 01:46:10 www.sports-tracker.com Jan 12 01:46:47 Has similar functionality to Columbus. Pretty damn decent for a Symbian app. Jan 12 01:47:10 You may want to steal a few features / screen layouts from it =) Jan 12 01:47:40 Heh, maybe. Jan 12 01:47:49 what is arm1136 Jan 12 01:48:00 otoh, I want to finish it at somepoint so I can do other apps :P Jan 12 02:01:59 hm is it normal that iwconfig says `security mode:open' even tho im using wpa2? Jan 12 02:05:02 nox-: probably Jan 12 02:05:10 hm ok Jan 12 02:05:27 as long as its not a security hole... :) Jan 12 02:05:36 Think it depends on a few driver factors Jan 12 02:05:48 So it's not suprising at least :) Jan 12 02:06:36 wpa2 with a long enough pw should still be safe, right? Jan 12 02:06:56 yes Jan 12 02:06:59 long, random Jan 12 02:07:03 yeah Jan 12 02:07:10 fourscoreyears Jan 12 02:07:15 isn't a good phrase forex Jan 12 02:07:49 * nox- did something like dd bs=256 count=1 that's prolly OK. Jan 12 02:09:53 good :) Jan 12 02:10:27 there was a good article about how three random english word is safer than various random alphanumeric characters Jan 12 02:10:35 how OT is t-mobile uk's upcoming policy change? (it was the best way of getting an n900 in hte UK until recently) Jan 12 02:11:01 quite on topic Jan 12 02:11:19 i'm wondering if anyone here has successfully got out of the contract early, with their n900, over this Jan 12 02:11:36 BCMM: The 20 quid for 6 months PAYG deal is quite reasonable, even at 500M (of video) per month Jan 12 02:12:01 chx, hm link? :) Jan 12 02:12:28 BCMM: lots when it happened to vodafone customers last year. Jan 12 02:12:35 SpeedEvil: it's 500MB of anything, per month Jan 12 02:12:43 alterego: yeah, but t-mobile isn't vodafone Jan 12 02:12:44 BCMM: look at the t.m.o thread :) Jan 12 02:13:04 BCMM: yes - 500M, but after 500M, streaming, and 'large files' break Jan 12 02:13:11 i know that, legally, i can get out, but in practise i need to convince t-mob of that, since i'm not going to hire a lawyer Jan 12 02:13:20 BCMM: ofcom defines the rules, if your bill increases by more than 5 percent due to a policy change you can cancel. Jan 12 02:13:40 So your bill may not increase Jan 12 02:13:52 alterego: huh, awkward. it won't increase the bill, they'll just stop providing a service while still charging the same... Jan 12 02:13:54 SpeedEvil: indeed, Jan 12 02:13:55 just you won't be able to stream after the 10th of the month or whatever Jan 12 02:13:56 nox-: shoudl be somewhere http://www.delicious.com/chx_here Jan 12 02:13:59 nox-: shoudl be somewhere http://www.delicious.com/chx_ here Jan 12 02:14:20 nox-: http://www.baekdal.com/tips/password-security-usability told you Jan 12 02:14:31 BCMM: good point, not entirely sure then I'd have to look at the T&C Jan 12 02:14:49 twitter is awesome when crossed with packratius. Jan 12 02:15:00 SpeedEvil: and i'm not sure the £20 a month thing i'm in is a good deal - this contract is effectively still paying for hte n900 Jan 12 02:15:17 BCMM: yeah - 20/6 mo - internet booster for PAYG Jan 12 02:15:22 i tweet anything interesting i read and if i need a link later, it's on delcious. siiiiiimple. Jan 12 02:15:32 BCMM: that's all ou pay, if you make no calls/text Jan 12 02:15:36 if i could get out of it, i could have a pretty similar contract, sim-only, with three, for £10 a month Jan 12 02:15:46 and get my 1GB of data back... Jan 12 02:16:03 "Sorry, but My T-Mobile is offline at the moment." Jan 12 02:16:24 * lucent perks up at mention of T-Mobile Jan 12 02:16:28 that's annoying. Jan 12 02:16:29 some kinda parable there, about not actually investing in infrastructure to support extremely predictable demand Jan 12 02:16:51 3 here is not of use, as they do not own 900/800MHz spectrum, so don't fall back on 2G Jan 12 02:16:56 Which is useless where I am Jan 12 02:17:22 i'm amazed i've seen this story in about three places, and they haven't contacted me about it yet... they're clearly being DDOS'ed by customers trying to find stuff out Jan 12 02:17:35 SpeedEvil: 3 has no 2G network at all? Jan 12 02:17:58 what is "3" a reference to, hm Jan 12 02:18:28 lucent: the mobile phone network called "3" (just to confuse people) Jan 12 02:18:43 i think they started out when 3g was new and shiny, causing a bit of confusion Jan 12 02:18:46 bloody hell Jan 12 02:18:50 It's Chinese Jan 12 02:18:52 thanks for clearing that up BCMM Jan 12 02:19:06 (same kinda confusion the bloody iPhone 3G causes) Jan 12 02:19:08 3 is *Chiense* ? wth? I thought they are British. Jan 12 02:19:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutchison_3G i see Jan 12 02:19:55 I'm on a T-Mobile USA plan, um, "Even More 500" post-paid with a $10/mo addon for unlimited Internet Jan 12 02:20:16 it's a $45.66/mo bill USD after taxes Jan 12 02:20:42 anyone suggest how I could get away with it for cheaper? Jan 12 02:21:04 BCMM: As I understand it, no. Jan 12 02:21:26 BCMM: they used to use Oranges network for fallback - but I guess the Orange/t-mobile deal screwed that up Jan 12 02:21:50 SpeedEvil: oh, i was just about to mention the orange thing (saw it in the wiki article) Jan 12 02:22:17 yeah, it's annoying that t-mob does this just when i was thinking it was looking pretty good because of the Orange roaming thing Jan 12 02:22:42 lucent: not anymore, since even t-mobile just changed up their unlimited plan and eliminated the $10/mo version Jan 12 02:22:49 chx, ah this three english words recommendation assumes the cracker can only test 100 passwords per seconds... Jan 12 02:23:29 nox-: one can presume that does not matter -- the relative speedup would be roughly equivalent. Jan 12 02:23:56 yeah but for wifi security youd need more that three words obviously Jan 12 02:24:25 SpeedEvil: sure they don't have a 2g partner any more? Jan 12 02:24:40 wmarone: oh, stay with it, then? Jan 12 02:25:08 (or just stick do random strings, im not going to type them in here anyway, thats what i have wired/usb network for) Jan 12 02:26:09 speaking of wireless, and maemo, sometimes I have to reboot to get a gprs connection to work Jan 12 02:26:17 anyone else experience that? Jan 12 02:26:43 I had that a couple times Jan 12 02:26:57 usually if I hop on wifi for a while Jan 12 02:27:16 oh, mine happens when I'm on a bus, between coverage zones Jan 12 02:27:19 lucent: are you sure it has to be a reboot? have you tried going into flight mode and back? Jan 12 02:27:39 in and out of flight mode doesn't fix it, taking phonet up and down doesn't fix it Jan 12 02:28:03 flight mode and back? yes, sometimes that helps, but also I've had it where for several days no matter which coverage zone I was in, it could make and receive calls but GPRS data would not connect Jan 12 02:28:10 reboot and it worked instantly Jan 12 02:28:25 lucent: does the GPRS connection disappear entirely from the connections list as well? Jan 12 02:28:49 wmarone: negative, it keeps retrying, and I could (and did) retry manually from the connections list Jan 12 02:29:08 I'd like to know if there is some kind of logging or what I can run to get it "in the act" next time this happens Jan 12 02:29:20 weird Jan 12 02:29:22 mine's worse then Jan 12 02:31:44 lucent, here when 3g is down (happened twice for several days each) i have to force gsm or it would keep disconnecting and connecting again probably trying to connect to 3g in vain... Jan 12 02:31:50 http://www.three.co.uk/_standalone/What_is_3G_ "Stream music and videos using services like YouTube and Spotify on compatible phones." - 3 officially "gets" the internet more than t-mob. Jan 12 02:32:19 oh! good point, hey I do not have 3G service here anywhere, it always says "2.5G" Jan 12 02:32:31 my 3G is turned off in settings, Jan 12 02:33:43 oh right Jan 12 02:33:50 before traveling, do try to install Maps Jan 12 02:33:57 anyone ever try using Ovi Suite to download maps? Jan 12 02:34:00 * timeless_mbp has 20mins to do that Jan 12 02:34:07 * lucent admits affirmatively Jan 12 02:34:23 it was a run-around, never worked correctly Jan 12 02:34:45 not to say it can't work, I just tried and then decided reflash was easier Jan 12 02:38:13 BCMM_: fairly sure Jan 12 02:39:46 timeless_mbp, http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2009/10/13/downloading_ovi_maps_without_a_network_c Jan 12 02:42:56 nox-: oh right Jan 12 02:43:11 :) Jan 12 02:44:50 thanks Jan 12 02:45:04 * timeless_mbp wonders how well it deals w/ upgraded datasets Jan 12 02:45:07 np Jan 12 02:45:15 heh i wondered about that too... Jan 12 02:45:20 opinion time, is Ovi Maps "good enough" ? Jan 12 02:45:47 i also like cloudgps (if you dont need routing) Jan 12 02:46:15 sorry, i have to get a ride to the airport, no time to chat Jan 12 02:46:21 lucent: good enough for *what*? Jan 12 02:46:38 i'm about to go on international roaming for over a week Jan 12 02:46:53 for the casual user, traveling and needs a map Jan 12 02:47:01 normally i'd use google maps while in europe Jan 12 02:47:08 (maps.google.com/maps/m) Jan 12 02:47:34 but California is rather large (even LA is large) Jan 12 02:48:59 new to me, thanks for the hint about google maps mobile Jan 12 02:49:06 is it using Geo Location plugin? Jan 12 02:49:39 tap the little round dot near zoom Jan 12 02:49:47 you have to give it permission (once) Jan 12 02:50:03 if you're using 1.3 it isn't a plugin, it's an integrated feature of the browser Jan 12 02:50:15 (it used to be an extension) Jan 12 02:50:31 oh, got it. doesn't work here though :/ I'm thinking how do I get it to ask me, if I accidentally deny it Jan 12 02:51:14 MicroB 3.6 says "about:" Jan 12 02:51:28 don't mind me! enjoy your trip Jan 12 02:51:39 oh right, missing international flights ==BAD BAD BAD Jan 12 02:51:40 yeah enjoy timeless_mbp :) Jan 12 02:51:46 thanks all Jan 12 02:58:04 * SpeedEvil missed a bus yesterday, it wasn't fun. Jan 12 02:58:13 Not an international flying bus though. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 12 02:59:58 2011