**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 13 02:59:59 2011 Jan 13 03:00:17 econtalk.org is better entertaining education than ted.com Jan 13 03:13:23 so have we had any probable cases of n900's dying from overclocking yet? Jan 13 03:13:40 again, they won't -die- Jan 13 03:13:49 they'll just become unstable and unreliable Jan 13 03:13:59 ok, well that then Jan 13 03:14:19 ask someone who has overclocked theirs ;) Jan 13 03:14:33 i just overclocked mine now Jan 13 03:14:40 for the first time Jan 13 03:29:10 sometimes when i change sim card, the media player refuses to play music anymore, saying "Unable to play media. Media format not supported" - any advice? Jan 13 03:32:31 maher: i actually use mplayer Jan 13 03:32:39 and disable the media scanner Jan 13 03:34:21 popn1k: i will try mplayer - but the alarm usually doesn't make any noise in this situation either Jan 13 03:35:29 maher: does a reboot solve it? Jan 13 03:36:08 popn1k: no Jan 13 03:36:36 popn1k: sometimes tracker-process --hard-reset works - ut it didn't this time Jan 13 03:40:02 unfortunately device users now expect something like a media tracker. however the one in maemo5 has been problematic for me as well Jan 13 03:40:20 i have no idea why changing a sim would mess it up Jan 13 03:40:32 sure you didn't mean 'changing microsd'? Jan 13 03:41:18 popn1k: no - the phone sim not the microsd card Jan 13 03:41:41 sometimes people mistype Jan 13 03:42:25 popn1k: why constantly with the nickchange? Jan 13 03:43:23 ~ping Jan 13 03:43:24 ~pong Jan 13 03:43:40 iris from asus concept is cool Jan 13 03:45:02 avoiding spam SpeedEvil Jan 13 03:46:44 popn1k is next generatrion pupnik? Jan 13 03:46:53 popn1k: is mplayer a command line player or does it come with a ui? Jan 13 03:47:17 there was/is a gnome mplayer 'gmplayer' frontend but i don't know of a hildon mplayer frontend Jan 13 03:47:23 mplayer is command line Jan 13 03:47:37 but it is used with gui mostly in all OS's Jan 13 03:51:00 ksmplayer gmplayer smplayer even maemo has it's own gui for it Jan 13 03:51:54 what's the maemo gui for it? Jan 13 03:54:33 ok - smplayer is producing no sound Jan 13 03:55:01 the slider which is meant to control volume doesn't produce the change volume bar Jan 13 03:57:49 [AO OSS] audio_setup: Can't open audio device /dev/dsp: No such file or directory <-- perhaps this is the problem? Jan 13 04:01:49 i also get things like: ALSA lib pulse.c:272:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: Connection refused Jan 13 04:05:45 should pulseaudio be running? Jan 13 04:10:12 maher: try to play with settings Jan 13 04:10:33 maher: pulseaudio is by default in maemo i think Jan 13 04:11:26 popn1k: sib Jan 13 04:11:33 and are pupnik or not? Jan 13 04:16:47 how do i (re)start pulseaudio or dbus? Jan 13 04:18:45 i dunno Jan 13 04:19:07 /etc/init.d/pulseaudion restart maybe Jan 13 04:22:11 does anyone want to paste their output from aplay -l? Jan 13 04:25:18 pulseaudio is maemo's audio system Jan 13 04:26:59 check "pactl -h" for some better info on checking it Jan 13 04:27:07 eg, "pactl stat" Jan 13 04:27:49 and the missing /dev/dsp isn't a problem.. mplayer attempts to use the deprecated /dev/dsp interface there, and falls back to connecting to an audio server Jan 13 04:28:42 ieatlint: i rebooted one more time, and now things seem to be working - at least the volume control is back Jan 13 04:29:04 yeah, the audio system is janky.. :P Jan 13 04:29:21 meego will be using pulseaudio too :( Jan 13 04:31:08 pulseaudio is now running, as opposed to before... Jan 13 04:31:30 ieatlint: do you know how to restart pulseaudio? Jan 13 04:32:08 off hand, nope, i don't Jan 13 04:32:08 ok - its all working now - now i dea what went wrong or how do fix it.... :( Jan 13 04:32:21 probably a script in /etc/init.d Jan 13 04:32:27 but generally, reboot the phone Jan 13 04:32:29 ieatlint: thanks for telling me about pactl Jan 13 04:33:34 np Jan 13 04:36:55 a quick search says the generic way to start it would be "pulseaudio -D" (as root) Jan 13 04:38:03 not sure if there is a better init script to be running though Jan 13 04:46:43 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jan 13 04:46:43 + Jan 13 04:46:43 + Jan 13 04:46:43 ooops Jan 13 04:46:43 sorry tried to cleean buttons Jan 13 04:48:06 looks like just one button Jan 13 05:42:19 http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2009/06/epstein_on_the.html Richard Epstein on the Rule of Law Jan 13 05:49:18 Google: "showing results for WHAT YOU DID NOT TYPE" Jan 13 07:11:21 mornin' maemites Jan 13 07:16:57 morning Jan 13 07:19:27 khertan, ping Jan 13 07:20:27 i like told my n900 when it's cold. gives me feeling of something new' like i bought it right now Jan 13 07:20:44 ZogG: :D Jan 13 07:21:14 khweer is pretty awesome Jan 13 07:21:24 khweeter* Jan 13 07:21:31 khweeteur* Jan 13 07:21:39 :D Jan 13 07:21:56 has it changed much lately? Jan 13 07:22:25 I haven't tried it in a while. Been using my own twitter app Jan 13 07:22:36 it was super fast last I tried it. Jan 13 07:23:08 it is Jan 13 07:23:28 and new features + nice gui Jan 13 07:23:39 mece, what is your app? Jan 13 07:23:55 ZogG, tweed suit Jan 13 07:24:08 why didn'u share? Jan 13 07:24:18 ZogG, what do you mean? Jan 13 07:24:37 apped in repos Jan 13 07:24:59 ZogG, well it's not done yet. Jan 13 07:25:33 ZogG, it's open source though. Jan 13 07:26:10 show screenies Jan 13 07:26:18 ZogG, hmm. lemme look some up Jan 13 07:26:35 morning Jan 13 07:27:16 mece found git repo and you on twitter Jan 13 07:27:19 ZogG, http://twitpic.com/3ip9ft http://twitpic.com/3p66sd Jan 13 07:27:22 :) Jan 13 07:27:23 are you swedish? Jan 13 07:27:28 ZogG, finn Jan 13 07:27:36 the swedish speaking kind. Jan 13 07:27:54 finn? nice do me a favor Jan 13 07:28:01 ok.. Jan 13 07:29:02 throw an egg at nokia office =) Jan 13 07:29:37 i just dated swedish girl and language in tweets remind me swedish Jan 13 07:30:08 ZogG, well swedish is my first language. Jan 13 07:30:34 ZogG, like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish-speaking_Finns Jan 13 07:30:45 lemne mej ifhiit Jan 13 07:33:19 lol Jan 13 07:33:38 you are outcast than ? *sarcasm* Jan 13 07:33:59 ZogG, a little bit. But I speak fluent finnish, so I get by :) Jan 13 07:34:36 =) Jan 13 07:35:01 it's wierd to be person from small losed group Jan 13 07:35:19 like mammons Jan 13 07:35:24 ZogG, are you a member of an obscure minority? Jan 13 07:35:25 or something Jan 13 07:35:33 you even don't choose it Jan 13 07:35:54 im a member of an obscure minority in this god forsaken country ;p Jan 13 07:35:57 i'm kinda minority but not like that Jan 13 07:36:07 and we are not closed Jan 13 07:36:12 frals, haha yeah Jan 13 07:36:21 frals, you too? Jan 13 07:36:33 frals, is a swede in finland Jan 13 07:36:38 erm Jan 13 07:36:44 all finns hate me here :D Jan 13 07:36:59 frals, :D Jan 13 07:37:34 thanks to people like frals, the finnish speaking finns hate me less :) Jan 13 07:37:36 * ShadowJK is hurri too Jan 13 07:37:47 lol Jan 13 07:37:51 * mece highfives ShadowJK Jan 13 07:38:11 funny thou, all finns hates swedes because they claim we think we are the kings of scandinavia Jan 13 07:38:22 and like, no swede i know ever had this belief Jan 13 07:38:43 frals, they don't have to believe, they know! Jan 13 07:38:43 mece and frals, as you have same language you can put the end to this stupid war, and just marry and make children and next generation, where sedish and finns can live in peace =_ Jan 13 07:38:47 =) Jan 13 07:39:27 Amusingly that person that suggested a nordic/acandinavian federal state recently said it's less impossible now because the swedes are starting to forget their imperial past behaviour !) Jan 13 07:39:36 LOL Jan 13 07:39:41 i'm russian in israel, and you know whole world hates russians, even russians themselves Jan 13 07:39:58 yeah frals, wtf? Why aren't we seeing more imperialism from you? Jan 13 07:40:04 ye only thing finns hates more than swedes are russians Jan 13 07:40:10 ZogG, russians are badass Jan 13 07:40:28 lol =) Jan 13 07:40:31 frals, i like swedes. Jan 13 07:40:37 frals, they're cuddly Jan 13 07:40:46 cause you traitor of your country Jan 13 07:40:55 you switched sides Jan 13 07:41:04 not a team player Jan 13 07:41:07 well, i like swedes as long as they aren't doing sports Jan 13 07:41:14 haha Jan 13 07:41:24 sports = war Jan 13 07:41:35 what do you mean sports? Jan 13 07:41:44 icehockey Jan 13 07:41:47 well hockey, floorball Jan 13 07:41:59 cause they win fin? Jan 13 07:42:05 mostly Jan 13 07:42:09 hahaha Jan 13 07:42:15 it's a rivalry Jan 13 07:42:16 losers Jan 13 07:42:20 vavi frals Jan 13 07:42:27 frals > mece Jan 13 07:42:30 haha Jan 13 07:42:33 *popcorn* Jan 13 07:42:35 so true Jan 13 07:43:13 as I see it, the relationship with swedes is not hate as much as a big brother complex Jan 13 07:43:45 well anyway Jan 13 07:44:56 I have a thing here in my code that doesn't work in windows, how would I #ifdef so that it would only appear in 'nix versions? Jan 13 07:46:02 I have no idea where to find that stuff. seems that people simply just know stuff like Q_WS_MAEMO_5 Jan 13 07:46:40 mece: #if !defined(__WIN32__) Jan 13 07:46:56 toggles, with the underscores? Jan 13 07:47:01 yes Jan 13 07:47:12 toggles, is there a list of these constants somewherE? Jan 13 07:47:12 if you want Q_WS_MAEMO_5 hold up, i'll grep my code Jan 13 07:47:17 toggles, also, thanks Jan 13 07:47:26 toggles, I have the maemo bits already Jan 13 07:47:45 but I use libnotify for linux desktop and don't want that for windows. Jan 13 07:48:16 mece: yes, i solved it somehow with liblocation, give me a minute or two Jan 13 07:48:26 toggles, :) thanks Jan 13 07:49:16 ohh... mine is ugly.. Jan 13 07:49:39 toggles, lol mine too. Jan 13 07:49:41 remove the exclamation mark? Jan 13 07:49:45 toggles, ifdefs are ugly Jan 13 07:49:54 ShadowJK, no I don't want it for windows Jan 13 07:50:44 what about the names in the pro file? I've seen maemo5 and unix. What are others called? Jan 13 07:50:55 is it win32? Jan 13 07:52:12 mece: ok, it's ugly but if you want it i'll give it to you Jan 13 07:52:50 toggles, sure sure. I'll show you mine if you show me yours :) Jan 13 07:52:55 sweet Jan 13 07:53:06 http://tommywatson.com/maemo.cpp Jan 13 07:53:20 makes a lot of assumptions about platform Jan 13 07:54:25 Well, yea... Jan 13 07:54:26 so basically i have an class defined in a .h file and the .cpp implementation is included in the .cpp based on arm + Q_WS_MAEMO_5 defined Jan 13 07:56:11 toggles, whoa Jan 13 07:56:33 toggles, that's actually pretty strict :) so where did you find all those constants? Jan 13 07:56:46 like i said, not pretty but it solved the testing on linux/port to maemo Jan 13 07:57:00 well.. googleing and reading the qt headers Jan 13 07:57:09 toggles, well it's a lot prettier than mine :D Jan 13 07:57:12 standard defins per platform are available like so Jan 13 07:57:16 at least that bit. Jan 13 07:57:34 touch /tmp/x.c ; gcc -E -dM /tmp/x.c | less Jan 13 07:57:42 toggles, you'd think that stuff would be in qt docs somewhere... Jan 13 07:57:49 toggles, I'll go dig Jan 13 07:58:06 i don't think thats the qt way, but it worked for me Jan 13 07:59:49 it also assumes you only compile for qt on arm, if you don't have qt installed the build will fail Jan 13 08:00:38 ooooo Jan 13 08:00:40 I finds it! Jan 13 08:01:33 toggles, here's something: http://doc.trolltech.com/latest/winsystem.html Jan 13 08:07:33 mece: rock on, thanks Jan 13 08:08:32 again, though, it fails like my stuff fails, assumes you always had qt installed which may or may not work for you, doesn't work for me in most cases Jan 13 08:38:13 So I have a cleanly flashed n900, did the emmc and then pr1.3 and for some reason no pages are loading the in the default webrowser. Screen shows white even after the page claims to be done loading. Any ideas why? Jan 13 08:44:43 jef91, I never flashed my emmc followed by pr1.3, if you entered in about:config would it show some warning page? Jan 13 08:46:24 Actually just installed browser switch board and it seems to be working now Jan 13 08:46:44 * jef91 would like to thank the hardworking FOSS people that fix all of Nokia's fuck ups Jan 13 08:47:22 that's mozilla fuckup Jan 13 08:47:30 microB sucks a lot Jan 13 08:47:40 fennec sucks even more Jan 13 08:48:06 have you tried their nightly builds? Jan 13 08:48:12 yes Jan 13 08:48:18 still slow and useless Jan 13 08:48:29 opera ftw Jan 13 08:48:59 heh opera is ok Jan 13 08:49:00 jacekowski: lol Jan 13 08:49:24 so compile a new webkit browser Jan 13 08:49:32 chromium ? Jan 13 08:49:49 buttons are puny on chromium Jan 13 08:50:00 khertan: i have opera Jan 13 08:50:04 (the last release available for maemo is 5 last time i ve tryed ... but ... (security pb)) Jan 13 08:50:06 so i'm not worried about chromium Jan 13 08:50:11 and the way the UI wraps around hildon makes it look pretty crap Jan 13 08:50:24 i use KhtBrowser ... no problem also :) Jan 13 08:50:40 fennec seems nice but yeah really slow even with nightly builds, it just seems to be bloated Jan 13 08:51:03 then there's macuco Jan 13 08:51:09 yep ... not for n900 too slow Jan 13 08:51:22 fennec is designed for device with more ram Jan 13 08:51:33 well, it's based on bloated firefox Jan 13 08:51:34 this is the main reason of the slow down ... swap Jan 13 08:51:49 jacekowski: lol bloated firefox ... Jan 13 08:51:56 do better :) Jan 13 08:51:57 There is un-bloated firefox? Jan 13 08:52:09 Yea, it's actually my girlfriends n900 Jan 13 08:52:16 I install switch board so I could change the default to opera Jan 13 08:52:16 there's always lynx :P Jan 13 08:52:17 LOL Jan 13 08:52:43 w3m ftw Jan 13 08:52:54 well, it takes less than 2s to start opera on my laptop Jan 13 08:53:04 though I find microb + sites designed for the iPhone to be a nice compromise Jan 13 08:53:05 and that's with huge e-mail database Jan 13 08:53:10 wget && strings ;) Jan 13 08:53:13 loads of bookmarks and stuff Jan 13 08:53:17 and 12s to start firefox Jan 13 08:53:36 ehh opera on the desktop is a turd Jan 13 08:53:44 it loads pages about as well as a mobile browser does Jan 13 08:53:52 ekhm Jan 13 08:54:16 the unfortunate irony is that there's plenty of sites these days have css designed for iphones and other browsers just have to find their own ways around it or to fake themselves as iphone (especially macuco) Jan 13 08:54:24 opera has better result in acid3 than firefox Jan 13 08:55:58 jef91: so it's more standard compatible than firefox, faster than firefox, and uses less memory than firefox Jan 13 08:56:27 ehh Jan 13 08:56:35 chromium... :) Jan 13 08:56:38 and wasn't opera is proprietary? :) Jan 13 08:56:59 on the desktop, most of my browser use these days seems to be based on interface comfortableness Jan 13 08:57:04 which is totally subjective :) Jan 13 08:57:04 s/opera is proprietary/opera proprietary/ Jan 13 08:57:04 psycho_oreos meant: and wasn't opera proprietary? :) Jan 13 08:57:31 at leat on my nice fast desktop. on my old iMac, speed does matter a bit Jan 13 08:58:12 * ArkanoiD- wonders why opera is not instantly dead after webkit was released Jan 13 08:58:29 You and me both Arkanoid Jan 13 08:58:36 ArkanoiD-, I'm quite impressed that they've stuck around on the desktop Jan 13 08:58:44 jacekowski, all benchmarks I've seen say that opera uses more memory than firefox when some pages open. Jan 13 08:58:56 Idle memory usage doesn't really mean anything. Jan 13 08:58:58 I guess they have lots of business deals for mobile, but I'm not sure what they get out of making a desktop browser Jan 13 09:00:09 acid3 is useless, it was intentionally designed to include shit that is not yet in any standard, was/is broken in some/all browsers and consequently nobody uses in real webpages Jan 13 09:00:18 ArkanoiD-.. what a nice nick :) Jan 13 09:00:32 I've made an arkanoid clone :) Jan 13 09:00:44 inz: not according to my measurments Jan 13 09:00:50 I made it 12 years ago and last year I ported it to maemo Jan 13 09:00:56 inz: esspecialy with 100+ tabs open Jan 13 09:00:56 :-) Jan 13 09:01:03 it compiled right out of the box without ANY makefile or sourcecode changes at all Jan 13 09:01:03 jacekowski, ok; haven't tried myself, so can't argue. Jan 13 09:01:23 I gotta say maemo build environment rocks Jan 13 09:01:31 inz: but at 100+ tabs open firefox goes over 1G of ram Jan 13 09:01:37 actually it is client misconfiguration, arkanoid was busy on freenode so actually i registered as.. Jan 13 09:01:38 inz: opera stays little below Jan 13 09:01:59 jacekowski, ok, most benchmarks I've seen use around 10 Jan 13 09:02:40 "Arkenoi" is some strange misspell invented by a journalist who wrote an article about me but failed to memorize my nick properly Jan 13 09:03:20 and i adopted it since then to use on services where "arkanoid" is already occupied Jan 13 09:04:49 I should register a UUID as a nick Jan 13 09:12:28 www is a disgusting pile of multicultural poo Jan 13 09:33:06 hello Jan 13 09:36:07 hallo user. new to IRC? Jan 13 09:56:33 hello Jan 13 09:59:14 all bots ! Jan 13 09:59:26 yup Jan 13 09:59:36 and people named 'user' :> Jan 13 10:00:15 it's the middle of the night in the Americas and middle of the work day in Europe. Might not be many people on Jan 13 10:01:18 lies, we're just lurking, waiting for something to happen Jan 13 10:01:46 (more like beginning of work day) Jan 13 10:03:48 Corsac, it's already 11 in Denmark. Time to grab an early lunch :D Jan 13 10:04:09 MohammadAG, nothing interesting from me tonight. maybe later Jan 13 10:04:29 johnx: 11 here too, beginning of day work :) Jan 13 10:04:48 pictureflow's awesome Jan 13 10:04:53 need to get it into the mediaplayer :D Jan 13 10:06:05 Jaffa, ping Jan 13 10:06:38 anyways, I'm off of to bed. 'night all Jan 13 10:42:59 * Sicelo wishes everyone a good time Jan 13 11:04:25 hi there Jan 13 11:10:32 hi there Jan 13 11:11:32 I have uninstalled the network-manager of my debian and put wicd but now the network (inside scratchbox) doesn't work anymore. Any idea? Jan 13 11:13:37 X-Fade: ping Jan 13 11:16:29 achipa: pong Jan 13 11:20:49 X-Fade: heya, remember that service-pack thingy ? it seems that the time is coming fo rit Jan 13 11:21:33 achipa: Ok, how would you suggest we do that? Jan 13 11:22:14 the thing is - for this to work, NO ONE can depend on the constituents Jan 13 11:22:24 as that blocks HAM components Jan 13 11:22:29 upgrades, I mean Jan 13 11:22:48 no one? Jan 13 11:23:00 dany: except the service pack Jan 13 11:23:13 achipa, what do you mean? Jan 13 11:23:49 HAM is a bit conservative (synonim for brain dead) with regard to upgrades Jan 13 11:24:10 so iit's easy to get into a situation when your upgrade path is blocked Jan 13 11:24:11 You guys are talking about 2 different things. Jan 13 11:24:22 ok :) Jan 13 11:24:26 So that is quite amusing to see, but confusing to you both :) Jan 13 11:24:33 but anyway: Jan 13 11:24:41 the course of action might be: Jan 13 11:25:28 1. block auto-promotion of dependencies (currently qtquickcompat and libqt4-bearer-hotfix) Jan 13 11:26:05 achipa, or we could launch the SSU Jan 13 11:26:23 2. push mcsp (and with it qtquickcompat and libqt4-bearer-hotfix) to Extras when we make sure it works Jan 13 11:26:43 MohammadAG: umm, the SSU is a third thing in this story Jan 13 11:26:53 how come? Jan 13 11:27:44 the primary target of the mcsp is support for default firmwares and upcoming SDK releases Jan 13 11:28:14 so yes, this stuff can be also part of the SSU, but it makes quite a bit of sense to provide it to people not having/wanting to go the SSU way Jan 13 11:28:37 achipa: But how are we going to solve overwriting of installed packages? Jan 13 11:28:45 achipa: Or do you want to do a parallel install? Jan 13 11:30:10 we don't - the mcsp doesn't overwrite anything, it only applies fixes that are non-destructive/backwards compatible Jan 13 11:30:47 so it's not for things like, new Qt versions, etc Jan 13 11:31:16 but for small tidbits that CAN be applied without changing the PR content Jan 13 11:31:27 (see the two current packages) Jan 13 11:32:06 for stuff that DOES need replacing (as said, new Qt or other lib version) -> SSU Jan 13 11:32:07 So you overwrite things in post-inst? Jan 13 11:32:50 to reiterate - we don't overwrite :) at the moment these are only addons, not replacements Jan 13 11:33:21 to be more clear - we don't sport anything that already exists Jan 13 11:33:38 is the 3g battery issue due to maemo or the phone itself? Jan 13 11:34:37 that's why I say this is not at all like the SSU Jan 13 11:35:01 achipa: And where would you want to host that? Jan 13 11:35:12 X-Fade: urrm, extras ? Jan 13 11:35:23 (considering it's just extras software that would depend on it) Jan 13 11:35:52 Yeah, ok. So we need to push it through all queues. Jan 13 11:36:02 right Jan 13 11:37:48 comawhite, it's due to 3g Jan 13 11:39:12 achipa: So, what is the plan? Create a package and test it in -devel? Jan 13 11:39:21 yes Jan 13 11:40:00 ShadowJK: do other phones have the same problem? Jan 13 11:40:09 Yes Jan 13 11:40:27 there will also be a new mad developer release tying in, but the details of that are still being discussed Jan 13 11:40:34 3g is not good for frequent low rate data Jan 13 11:41:48 lame Jan 13 11:41:59 wtf i can't overclock due to uboot installed Jan 13 11:42:01 lame Jan 13 11:56:53 anyone know if the N900's AV port is compatible with the ports on old Sony camcorders? do they have the contacts in the same order? Jan 13 11:57:27 Guys..All of my credit was gone. GPS is off. data-packages are off. Network positioning, gps is off. No calls were made. Then what could be the reason? :S Jan 13 11:57:49 Ex-Opesa: can't you ask your network? Jan 13 11:58:50 BCMM: I don't believe its there fault. I used ones 0.facebook.com but that is free (data package of course) do you think 'apt-get update' was done while I connected to internet to surf free 0.facebook.com? Jan 13 12:02:19 I am also sure only micrb used the inet while I was surfing free web... O_o Jan 13 12:05:54 update manager is done automatically when you go online afaik Jan 13 12:07:28 update check* Jan 13 12:08:44 yep, if you're past the interval since last check, connecting to the net will perform an update check immediately Jan 13 12:10:16 I should have disabled it. Thanks frals, nidO. Jan 13 12:10:22 good morning Jan 13 12:10:53 G'Morning, ThreeM! Jan 13 12:11:13 only a few hours left, then i have my N900 Jan 13 12:11:34 and my htc desire is history :) Jan 13 12:11:54 just in time to probably get buyer's remorse in a month? Jan 13 12:13:21 no way :) Jan 13 12:13:52 in the last 10 days i have testet 5 different phone models, and the N900 is the right one for me... Jan 13 12:14:19 point is, mwc is in a month and the expectation is an n9 announcement from nokia Jan 13 12:14:39 hmmm Jan 13 12:14:56 nidO, knowing nokia, that means a september release Jan 13 12:15:07 quite possibly, but we'll see Jan 13 12:15:31 they really need to stick to one OS Jan 13 12:15:50 or distribute new phones with old OSs and make them upgradeable Jan 13 12:16:11 but is N9 (meego) ready to marked? all i see on meego says: no the need more time Jan 13 12:16:21 release the N9 with Maemo 5, upgrade to meego later Jan 13 12:16:36 that is an option :( Jan 13 12:16:53 I saw N9 proto a month ago, the Meegon on it was readier than what we can get for N900 Jan 13 12:17:04 that's bad for publicity though, because "we'll upgrade it, we promise" is a promise that people know gets broken daily, so the device would only get fairly low adoption until it actually happens Jan 13 12:17:04 -n Jan 13 12:17:17 noma: and that was really meego-harmattan Jan 13 12:17:25 hmm Jan 13 12:17:26 which is horrible in terms of publicity, as the initial sales figures for it will be crap Jan 13 12:17:29 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/fmms/# Jan 13 12:17:34 why does that show 956k Jan 13 12:17:46 kirma: probably Jan 13 12:17:46 when it should be 1mil+? :p Jan 13 12:18:09 frals, because. Jan 13 12:18:11 last update: 2011-01-11 1064136 | Jan 13 12:18:16 :[ Jan 13 12:18:47 frals, well boo-frackin-hoo :P Jan 13 12:19:17 how can i get fdisk on maemo? Jan 13 12:19:34 unless something strange has happened since those couple months most people have seen N9, transition from meego-harmattan to meego-whatever will be the interesting point that might be keeping things back (?) Jan 13 12:19:57 haven't played with "N9" myself, but everybody has couple friends and relatives... Jan 13 12:20:14 arr no matteers. i expect that the N9 will not awailable within the next 5 months and i need a phone. if the N9 will be released at wmc, so ok then i get a litte pissed of, but not to much. Jan 13 12:20:59 eh, so you're predestined yourself to be pissed off for nothing Jan 13 12:22:01 i have money, so the disappointment will be not so big, maybe i can use the N900 after that as a devel platform and the N9 as my usable phone ;) Jan 13 12:22:06 Anyone got an idea why with the power kernel, the /etc/network/interfaces definition of usb0 gets ignored? Jan 13 12:22:07 The N9 is a way off yet Jan 13 12:22:17 I'll certainly wait for MWC, and probably order one if they show sufficient hardware with sufficient promises on software. Jan 13 12:22:24 ThreeM: a great idea ;) Jan 13 12:22:31 is there a way to ask with flasher what boot line parameters were passed ? Jan 13 12:22:49 default unless stated otherwise Jan 13 12:22:53 that was kind of pity that I saw the N9, I can't wait to have it myself now :D Jan 13 12:23:01 and default CMDLINE is in kernel sources Jan 13 12:23:05 alterego making the best of the situation if the N9 will be released sooner as i expectetd :) Jan 13 12:23:12 Noma, where exactly did you see it? Jan 13 12:23:20 Any idea why the network/interfaces configuration is ignored with the power kernel? Jan 13 12:23:31 problem with "N9" hardware is that they have to switch it to newer hardware soon if they want to keep it competetive on later launch Jan 13 12:23:36 MohammadAG: I do not care about default, my purpose is to ask them ANYTIME. Jan 13 12:23:39 I would assume that anyone who has it is under an NDA Jan 13 12:23:40 ThreeM: sooner, not likely ;) Jan 13 12:23:42 MohammadAG: Tampere University of Technology Jan 13 12:24:00 ThreeM: expect the announcement 5 months before it's available :P Jan 13 12:24:16 so im get it right :) Jan 13 12:24:21 MohammadAG: under NDA, yes. Jan 13 12:24:24 it is still prototype. Jan 13 12:24:26 Noma, so was it out in the public for everyone to see, or is someone breaking... Jan 13 12:24:40 NDA means you shouldn't know about it Jan 13 12:24:45 anoncemed for september, nokia delay, so dezember the device is ready to ship Jan 13 12:24:51 MohammadAG: no it wasn't Jan 13 12:24:59 upgrading SoC and RAM is *relatively* easy as far as one stays on same SoC generation series, but if it's old stuff, it requires redesing :I Jan 13 12:25:04 but I'm not going to tell whose it was :D Jan 13 12:25:26 well, at least it exists Jan 13 12:25:28 anybody for boot parameter, flasher ? :) Jan 13 12:25:42 you can't Jan 13 12:26:12 well, it is not true, I did it earlier. I do not just remember :P Jan 13 12:26:26 but the display was amazing, horizontal resolution over 1000 pixels :) Jan 13 12:26:28 --help then Jan 13 12:26:49 Noma: please stop talking about a prototype if it is not public information. Jan 13 12:26:51 by the time N9 releases, if ever , it will be irrelevant again Jan 13 12:26:59 djszapi: well ok :) Jan 13 12:28:29 mmh, that is the only query flag I see in the helper output: --query-rd-mode Jan 13 12:28:34 it sucks then :) Jan 13 12:29:04 default CMDLINE in the kernel sources...where exactly ? Jan 13 12:31:15 djszapi, kernel sources Jan 13 12:31:26 check h-e-n's garage page git Jan 13 12:31:46 you'll find it in arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig Jan 13 12:31:47 noma: I'm not sure you are familiar with what you saw, but anyway, there might be a high concentration of Nokians here, y'know :) Jan 13 12:32:04 yep Jan 13 12:32:24 achipa, s/might/is/ :P Jan 13 12:32:48 MohammadAG: grab for what ? Jan 13 12:32:51 still vague. Jan 13 12:33:07 CONFIG_CMDLINE="init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 console=ttyS2,115200n8" ? Jan 13 12:33:26 kirma: without inferring anythin about the the current case, it's not that easy - your thermal envelope changes, power specs, you might have contractual obligations, etc, etc - so not something you change in a blink of an eye Jan 13 12:33:36 i thought it had some dac lines there Jan 13 12:33:51 dac lines ? Jan 13 12:34:11 true, but at least there's a *chance* you can do it meaningfully without whole PCB redesign and so on Jan 13 12:34:16 yes, basically speaker limits Jan 13 12:35:10 and that can be taken into account in advance without building two entirely separate prototypes Jan 13 12:35:27 but I admit I'm not EE Jan 13 12:35:55 +CONFIG_CMDLINE="init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6" Jan 13 12:36:03 djszapi, that Jan 13 12:38:50 does maemo5 already use the upstart way ? Jan 13 12:39:01 I would guess so. Jan 13 12:39:19 why not? it's fast Jan 13 12:39:39 yeah, but I do not see any upstart messages during the boot-up, dunno why. Jan 13 12:40:09 recompile kernel with framebuffer enabled Jan 13 12:40:51 well, I am supposed to see it by default. Jan 13 12:40:58 nope Jan 13 12:41:37 nope ? Jan 13 12:42:04 CONFIG_FB=y Jan 13 12:42:08 so it should work... Jan 13 12:42:21 CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE Jan 13 12:42:35 mmh. Jan 13 12:42:39 or whatever, it has FRAMEBUFFER in it Jan 13 12:53:48 well MohammadAG, I always thought upstart messages comes by default in any distribution Jan 13 12:55:08 Can anyone tell me what libcal is for? Jan 13 12:56:12 reading and writing the 'cal' area in the flash IIRC. Jan 13 12:56:13 "libcal provides an api to read and modify the calibration data area on Nokia internet tablets" Jan 13 12:57:09 ok, that answers the question of why it needs to remain closed then :) Jan 13 12:58:10 yupp thats why it's in "nokia-binaries" Jan 13 13:00:18 http://pastebin.com/fui7BjiY <= what's wrong with this, I'm always getting on ifup: ifdown: don't seem to have all the variables for usb0/inet Jan 13 13:01:38 Eh? Jan 13 13:03:30 yacc: http://pastie.org/1456057 Jan 13 13:03:55 Morning, all Jan 13 13:04:00 MohammadAG: pong Jan 13 13:04:34 yacc: that'll ensure your N900 keeps the same MAC address so you can use ubuntu network-manager or whatever to auto-configure your usb network on the host pc end. Jan 13 13:04:51 Obviously change the host_addr= to something else for your N900 to use :) Jan 13 13:05:29 alterego, but I want the n900 to do a DHCP query? Jan 13 13:06:15 yacc: then: http://pastie.org/1456057 Jan 13 13:07:47 alterego, I've pasted your interfaces file with dhcp, and I get: Jan 13 13:07:50 Nokia-N900:~# ifup usb0 Jan 13 13:07:51 ifup: don't seem to have all the variables for usb0/inet Jan 13 13:08:39 Hrm, ang on then Jan 13 13:09:42 hello chaps Jan 13 13:10:08 yacc: not sure then, probably something lame with busybox .. Jan 13 13:32:43 can someone help me with removing a half-installed app? i installed mobile maps 10 from ovi, and the install failed.. it doesn't show in app manager, but there is an icon in the menu which doesn't do anything... tried manual install over it, doesn't work Jan 13 13:33:27 toadpole: does apt-get remove work? Jan 13 13:33:55 what do i ask it to remove? Jan 13 13:34:06 toadpole: the name of the package Jan 13 13:34:47 where would one see that? the .deb file name? Jan 13 13:35:45 because the package doesn't show in app man Jan 13 13:35:52 so i dunno what its called Jan 13 13:36:09 toadpole: apt-cache search searchterm Jan 13 13:36:19 where searchterm could be the "pretty" name of the app Jan 13 13:37:15 alterego, yeah, makes one wonder, but in this specific case, as I'm master of all involved parts, I think the dhcp-server will survive being ignored ;) Jan 13 13:37:50 not installed, so not removed Jan 13 13:38:20 is what it says Jan 13 13:38:31 yacc: you could try manual instead of static or dhcp Jan 13 13:38:37 And get it to run udhcp .. Jan 13 13:38:48 toadpole: well, try one of apt-get remove or apt-get install on it Jan 13 13:38:52 toadpole try apt-get install -f Jan 13 13:39:16 So what, I've been collecting mac addresses and making the assignments permanent on the DHCP server for some days now, so I don't see much point in it. Jan 13 13:39:25 remove gave that error, what does -f do? Jan 13 13:39:55 Now I wonder if there is some startup script that gets run on boot or if I need to play with upstart. Jan 13 13:40:05 toadpole, it tells apt-get to try to fix the problem. Jan 13 13:40:26 toadpole, it calculates a solution to the problem and shows it to you for approval. Jan 13 13:40:45 when you start installing the package it makes a note of which it was so it can recover if it fails part way Jan 13 13:40:57 i.e. that package is then selected (iirc) Jan 13 13:40:57 ( eMHa ): Handler silently failed Jan 13 13:41:13 out of space? Corrupted .deb? Jan 13 13:41:30 is it safe to uninstall uboot and it return back to normal? Jan 13 13:42:07 I think you need to flash the kernel over the top of it don;'t you? Jan 13 13:42:08 i have no idea how it happened, i'd tried installing from ovi store, it got stuck halfway and stayed that way for 3 hours... i rebooted then Jan 13 13:42:59 with apt-get purge help? Jan 13 13:43:17 *will Jan 13 13:44:15 looks like not.. same thing, not installed so not removed Jan 13 13:46:48 how about force install a .deb? Jan 13 13:51:40 well, thanks BCMM, yacc, lardman Jan 13 13:52:08 yeah there's a keyword to force install Jan 13 13:52:14 ah well, too late Jan 13 13:56:26 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> afternoon. bloody slow day! Jan 13 13:57:27 Hi there! Could someone tell me the contents of /home in maemo os(specifically on a n900). Thanks Jan 13 13:59:54 cruster: folders and files Jan 13 14:01:38 @khertan_: you know exactly which ones? Surely there is the user folder. Any other folder? Jan 13 14:02:51 user and opt, are the important ones Jan 13 14:12:15 @khertan_: I had some disconnects,did you send any other message? Jan 13 14:23:48 xchat maemo version is awesome!! thanks!! Jan 13 14:25:12 MohammadAG: well it works like a charm by my colleague with no framebuffer config option, enabled. Jan 13 14:29:44 any trick for get less noise picture ( n900 ) Jan 13 14:30:16 yes, use a real camera or light the subject (helpful is my middle name) Jan 13 14:30:54 chx: i can give you my address so you can send me a "real camera" because i don't have one Jan 13 14:30:58 :D Jan 13 14:32:30 have you tried taking an hdr photo of what you're after? Jan 13 14:32:44 X-Fade, are the maemo.org ml archives belly-up? Jan 13 14:33:01 no updates in extras-cauldron-builds since Sunday Jan 13 14:33:16 nidO: normal photo in low light condition Jan 13 14:33:35 but something with enough light get a lot noise too Jan 13 14:33:44 laws of physics say youll get noise, hence my suggestion to take an hdr photo instead. Jan 13 14:33:47 the only good photo is with sunny days Jan 13 14:37:40 mairas_: Nice an quiet, right? :) Jan 13 14:37:59 E0x: have you tried blessn900? Jan 13 14:38:01 mairas_: It seems mailman on garage crapped out. It seems to work now. Jan 13 14:38:30 X-Fade, thanks :-) Jan 13 14:38:46 X-Fade, yep, noisier again Jan 13 14:39:04 hi there Jan 13 14:39:10 mairas_: good, i guess... Jan 13 14:39:27 brik: no , is good ? Jan 13 14:39:28 X-Fade, I'll also be bugging you about the web server statistics - tomorrow Jan 13 14:39:35 (if you're around) Jan 13 14:39:35 do you know what graphic libraries can I use on the n900? openGL isn't available Jan 13 14:40:18 E0x: it will improve photos taken in low light a lot Jan 13 14:40:29 somewhat less noisy at least Jan 13 14:40:29 thx brik i will try it Jan 13 14:40:29 dany: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenGL-ES Jan 13 14:40:47 javispedro, I know but it is uncomplete Jan 13 14:40:53 dany: In what sense? Jan 13 14:40:57 it is not the full opengl Jan 13 14:41:05 it is limitated Jan 13 14:41:40 you will need to workaround whatever functionaly from the full GL you need. Jan 13 14:42:12 javispedro, so you're saying that it's possible to port every openGL application using the openGL-ES? Jan 13 14:42:23 yes, with more or less effort. Jan 13 14:42:31 oh, gtg. sorry Jan 13 14:44:12 javispredo, but using other libraries? Jan 13 14:44:23 What do I need to do to reload the event.d scripts? Jan 13 14:46:11 It's possible to write good GLES2 code that runs perfectly in GLES2 and in desktop GL environment. Jan 13 14:47:56 cool Jan 13 15:24:53 hmm, transformers shockwave is a missing package on the ovi repo? Jan 13 15:28:50 hi Jan 13 15:29:02 i want to program a GUI app for maemo Jan 13 15:29:27 is there any visual tool to design graphical user interfaces for maemo using libs like qt or gtk? Jan 13 15:29:47 I really care about designing these tools in a visual environment Jan 13 15:29:58 qt Jan 13 15:30:17 blackthorne: download the latest Nokia Qt SDK, Jan 13 15:30:22 qt-designer Jan 13 15:30:22 qt creator? Jan 13 15:30:38 I know it, but does it work on maemo? Jan 13 15:30:44 Qt Creator has Qt Designer integrated with it which provides wysiwyg ui editor. Jan 13 15:30:49 qt designer seems to be desktop oriented Jan 13 15:31:14 You want to design the UIs _on_ the N900? Rather than design them on the deszktop and run them on the N900? Jan 13 15:31:25 no Jan 13 15:31:51 Qt Designer's awesome Jan 13 15:32:12 QtGtkStyle handles styling so apps look like gtk ones Jan 13 15:32:32 but what I don't like that the size of buttons I see isn't really what I get on the n900 then with hildon. Jan 13 15:32:51 you should use layouts anyway Jan 13 15:33:04 yes, thats probably true. Jan 13 15:33:10 but considering the differences on the screen size, ... Jan 13 15:33:59 800x480 should be the same Jan 13 15:34:18 but hildon's buttons are kinda big Jan 13 15:34:44 "visible from orbit" is a button size I like Jan 13 15:35:12 * lardman would like buttons with kb shortcuts :p Jan 13 15:35:36 is the Qt code Jan 13 15:35:39 * lcuk would like bacon release mechanism Jan 13 15:35:43 the same that runs on a PC ? Jan 13 15:35:52 mmm Jan 13 15:35:58 blackthorne, as long as you stick within the qt api, yes Jan 13 15:36:00 that's the whole point of Qt isn't it Jan 13 15:36:01 don't they use other libs? Jan 13 15:36:06 for mobile devices, I mean Jan 13 15:36:12 once you start to add OS specific function calls you break the cross compatability Jan 13 15:36:12 that's awesome! Jan 13 15:36:25 unless you use #ifdefs! Jan 13 15:36:30 just like you can make Qt apps, but call into Windows API Jan 13 15:36:38 * lcuk nukes MohammadAG from orbit Jan 13 15:36:52 ifdefs make eyes bleed Jan 13 15:36:54 I swear we get some right weirdos on tmo .. Jan 13 15:37:14 alterego, took you long to notice Jan 13 15:37:31 lcuk, sometimes, an API is stupid and you have to turn to your own implementation :p Jan 13 15:37:44 * MohammadAG looks at sensors API Jan 13 15:37:50 MohammadAG, no - you file a bug Jan 13 15:38:04 or discuss with the designers of sensors api and offer a patch Jan 13 15:38:13 that way, you get what you want and everyone else does too Jan 13 15:38:20 and you retain cross compatible use Jan 13 15:38:48 so download sensorapi, make the changes there, offer a MR to the guys Jan 13 15:38:58 along with a description of why you needed to do it Jan 13 15:39:07 is there dropbox for n900? Jan 13 15:39:20 theres n900fly Jan 13 15:39:37 what about git? Jan 13 15:39:39 but in general for all "is there X package for n900", see here http://maemo.org/packages/ Jan 13 15:39:53 it has a handy search which also shows which repo things are in ;) Jan 13 15:40:00 theres n900fly LOL Jan 13 15:49:30 MohammadAG, Jan 13 15:51:26 your media bar is turning on everytime i call/answer the phone Jan 13 15:51:53 what is the difference beteen designer and qt designer Jan 13 15:52:03 i have both in menu and they look wierdly different Jan 13 15:52:22 first is 4.7.1 and other is 2.0.0 =) Jan 13 15:53:48 oops my mistake Jan 13 15:53:54 one was creaor Jan 13 15:54:14 but still somehow i have 2 creators and designers in my system Jan 13 15:56:11 frals, hey you know things about pidgins, right? Jan 13 15:56:26 and by pidgins I mean dbus calls actually. Jan 13 16:00:30 hm oh well. Jan 13 16:00:52 damn Jan 13 16:02:18 ZogG, ? Jan 13 16:02:39 i have installed qt-creator twice Jan 13 16:02:44 manually Jan 13 16:03:12 and even don't know where source files and how to get rid of one of them at least Jan 13 16:03:33 ([2011-01-13 16:30:34] * lardman would like buttons with kb shortcuts :p) FULL ACK Jan 13 16:03:34 meanwhile i don't feel installing it from portage as it wants so many dependies Jan 13 16:03:48 DocScrutinizer hey robot, sup? Jan 13 16:07:56 lardman: but... has anybody ever tried to include acce&lerator marks to buttons - on maemo qt? maybe they work and simply nobody is using them :-P Jan 13 16:08:45 hey, how would I go about checking if the screen is dark from a Qt app? Jan 13 16:08:46 wait, for buttons the code was slightly different iirc Jan 13 16:09:26 Mece: read out all pixels and compare to a threshold color value? Jan 13 16:09:37 Mece: seriously what do you want to do? Jan 13 16:10:06 DocScrutinizer: good idea Jan 13 16:10:23 Mece: backlight you mean? Jan 13 16:10:49 well, I want do do a thing if app is not in focus or screen is locked. yes lardman. if screen is locked or just blacked Jan 13 16:11:04 lardman: I guess he means screen lock Jan 13 16:11:17 if I leave the phone w/ keyboard open, it is not locked but black. Jan 13 16:11:18 yep Jan 13 16:11:35 because if I tap it it wakes up. Jan 13 16:11:50 so that's why i said black, but yeah, locked. Jan 13 16:12:25 there are events you can receive Jan 13 16:12:28 hi folks. is there any news for flash 10? Jan 13 16:12:44 either you find a signal on dbus which is sent by mce to notify screen dimming and undimming, or you read out /sys for backlight brightness Jan 13 16:12:52 i don't need events, I want to do a check. Jan 13 16:13:30 like if (screenLocked) go ape. Jan 13 16:13:46 maybe it's safe enough for your usecase to assume screen is locked when backlight is at level 0 Jan 13 16:14:11 it's not a proper idicator though for mce having locked it Jan 13 16:14:11 Mece, there's a class in qt-mediaplayer Jan 13 16:14:12 Mece: isActiveWindow() ? Jan 13 16:14:21 isScreenLocked() Jan 13 16:14:21 QApplication method Jan 13 16:14:43 s/method/property Jan 13 16:14:44 or that :-D Jan 13 16:14:51 http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer Jan 13 16:15:03 I'm thinking of writing a small Qt ui that allows you to select .iso images or .bin files to use when using usb in file storage mode. Jan 13 16:15:03 though that can indicate the app is bg'ed Jan 13 16:15:23 to use for what? Jan 13 16:15:46 MohammadAG, oh? that easy? Jan 13 16:15:48 wow. Jan 13 16:15:50 Well, for me, it means I can have 32bit and 64bit ubuntu install cds Jan 13 16:15:50 alterego: ?? exporting lopmounted .iso? Jan 13 16:15:58 Mece, yes, i'm awesome like that Jan 13 16:15:58 DocScrutinizer: no Jan 13 16:16:01 :P Jan 13 16:16:03 Not loopmounted .. Jan 13 16:16:39 ah I see Jan 13 16:17:10 alterego: why not loopmounted? what else? Jan 13 16:17:26 DocScrutinizer: What has loop mounting got to do with g_file_storage? Jan 13 16:17:39 That's just plain stupid. Jan 13 16:17:48 so what are you trying to achieve? Jan 13 16:17:59 * lardman has been up for too many hours today Jan 13 16:18:03 Basically, turning the N900 into install medium Jan 13 16:18:20 anyone know for what prupose is used /sys/devices/platform/omapdss/overlay1 ? Jan 13 16:18:45 alterego: what do you think is g_file_storage exporting? Jan 13 16:18:53 DocScrutinizer: a file Jan 13 16:19:01 * ShadowJK wonders if one is for video on lcd and other for video on tvout Jan 13 16:19:02 DocScrutinizer: the mounting is done on the host machine .. Jan 13 16:19:04 blue_led: from a quick google, that's the fb overlay Jan 13 16:19:16 uhuh Jan 13 16:19:22 which includes TV out functionality Jan 13 16:19:25 So, wtf are you talking about? Jan 13 16:19:56 MyDocs is a file? Jan 13 16:20:01 alterego: but what are you doing then? copying the right file to the partition which will be mounted? Jan 13 16:20:22 1. plugin in n900 via usb. 2. select 32-bit ubuntu installation .iso image. 3. Start machine. Jan 13 16:20:27 /dev/mmcblk1p1 is a file? Jan 13 16:20:32 Then the machine will start an installation of 32bit linux Jan 13 16:20:46 DocScrutinizer: mmcblk1 actually .. Jan 13 16:20:51 so what do you need the ui for? Jan 13 16:21:00 mmcblk0 and mmblk1 Jan 13 16:21:18 lardman: To make it easy to switch between .iso images and the default N900s behaviour? Jan 13 16:21:21 actually everything's a file on unix X-P Jan 13 16:21:35 i have overlay2 and i can adjust tv image size by modifing values on overlay2 but question about overlay1 still here. Jan 13 16:21:40 I don't want to have to modprobe manually each time. Jan 13 16:21:55 alterego: so your ui will copy one or other of the files to e.g. MyDocs, then modprobe g_storage or words to that effect Jan 13 16:21:56 ? Jan 13 16:22:11 At my previous job this would have been really useful, as we use usb devices to flash firmware and configuration onto some embedded devices. Jan 13 16:22:18 lardman: no Jan 13 16:22:24 blue_led, is one for yuv and other the standard rgb? Jan 13 16:22:32 blue_led: dunno off the top of my head, check out the kernel driver code comments Jan 13 16:22:48 lardman: my program will insmod g_file_storage telling it to use some .iso instead of /dev/mmcblk0 and /dev/mmcblk1 Jan 13 16:23:17 The UI is to just make it user friendly when selecting a target image. Jan 13 16:23:18 ah, I see Jan 13 16:23:18 alterego, you might have to use loop device Jan 13 16:23:23 ShadowJK: no, I don't. Jan 13 16:23:39 I know it'll work, what I don't know is why you're all questoning it? :P Jan 13 16:23:43 assuming the PC knows the format of the fs it should work ok Jan 13 16:23:47 oh, tried it manually that it works with regular files? Jan 13 16:24:00 MohammadAG, hmm I don't see a isScreenActive method anywhere... Jan 13 16:24:02 It would allow you to have a load of .iso images stored on your N900 and at any given moment make the N900 act like that image. Jan 13 16:24:16 ShadowJK: that's how it works. Jan 13 16:24:26 ? Jan 13 16:24:46 ShadowJK: there's no try. g_file_storage exports a usb mass storage device where the blocks are a file on the device. Jan 13 16:25:05 for instance: modprobe g_file_storage file=/home/user/some.iso Jan 13 16:25:06 alterego: I wasn't sure if g_file_storage is exporting the phy dev or the mounted fs. So I thought you loopmount your ISO to export the mountpoint Jan 13 16:25:17 Or: modprobe g_file_storage file=/dev/mmcblk0 Jan 13 16:25:23 No Jan 13 16:25:28 mece, class Maemo5DeviceEvents Jan 13 16:25:33 g_file_storage doesn't work like that. Jan 13 16:25:56 Well I don't think you'd mount it, but you'd use loop device without mounting to create a block device out of the regular file Jan 13 16:26:01 MohammadAG, where is this? Jan 13 16:26:18 obviously, otherwise you wouldn't have to umount MyDocs prior to exporting it :-D Jan 13 16:26:26 mece: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qwidget.html#isActiveWindow-prop Jan 13 16:26:29 mece, check mediabar's source, i use it there too Jan 13 16:26:36 ShadowJK: you obviously don't get what I'm talking about :P Jan 13 16:27:14 mece: but go for MohammadAG's suggestion for the isLocked() prop Jan 13 16:27:15 no, I actually think ShadowJK got a point there Jan 13 16:27:17 I presume Jan 13 16:27:39 ShadowJK: not necessary Jan 13 16:27:48 alterego, I'm questioning whether g_file_storage knows to use bmap and friends to get the blocks of a regular file so it can export it Jan 13 16:27:50 ShadowJK: g_file_storage is designed to work with files .. Jan 13 16:27:53 as g_storage can take a file Jan 13 16:27:55 ok.. I'm currently using QApplication::focusWidget() != NULL Jan 13 16:27:55 I've just told you it does. Jan 13 16:28:02 I KNOW IT WORKS! ffs Jan 13 16:28:22 I'm too ill and cranky O_O Jan 13 16:28:27 lol Jan 13 16:28:34 * MohammadAG hides Jan 13 16:28:40 * lardman hands alterego some beer to cure his illness Jan 13 16:28:41 I don't need to be ill for that :-P Jan 13 16:28:47 and that doesn't work. well it works if the app is minimized or you're looking at something else, but not if the app is active and the screen is locked. Jan 13 16:28:47 Heh Jan 13 16:29:01 I did say, several times, it works, I know it works ... Jan 13 16:29:05 You know, you could just have pasted one line from the module Jan 13 16:29:33 alterego: a nice idea anyway Jan 13 16:29:45 Heh Jan 13 16:29:56 Yeah, I'm just thinking how to do it. Jan 13 16:30:06 I guess you would want to tweak ke_rcv or sth like that Jan 13 16:30:13 Well, how to do it "properly" as to maintain stability and usability etc. Jan 13 16:30:22 Yeah, exactly. Jan 13 16:31:11 * DocScrutinizer wonders idly what a fsckdup acronym ke_rcv might be Jan 13 16:31:25 ke_recv I thought :P Jan 13 16:31:34 whatever Jan 13 16:32:13 Hrm, Jan 13 16:32:13 unless I figure what it means, I'll never manage to recall correctly Jan 13 16:32:18 * alterego thinks of a name for this app. Jan 13 16:32:27 kernel event receiver? Jan 13 16:32:30 Or something? Jan 13 16:32:38 oooh, thanks alterego Jan 13 16:32:56 :) Jan 13 16:33:17 I'm thinking "USB Storage Selector" Jan 13 16:33:25 Or "USB Storage Configurator" Jan 13 16:33:48 or "virtual CD" Jan 13 16:33:52 Pfft, I could make it a control panel applet and call it "USB Storage" Jan 13 16:34:19 Yeah, I've got a plan slightly larger than CDs and it's not limited to CDs anyway. Jan 13 16:39:03 MohammadAG, so I guess it's easiest to just include that class directly. Jan 13 16:39:21 MohammadAG, if that's ok with you? Jan 13 16:40:46 i hate qt Jan 13 16:40:53 seriously Jan 13 16:41:05 it's pain in the a** Jan 13 16:41:15 i hate it so much Jan 13 16:41:19 ZogG: it gets better Jan 13 16:41:25 no it's not Jan 13 16:41:29 ZogG: use pure xlib Jan 13 16:41:30 I'm almost a C++ convert now Jan 13 16:41:36 it won't help, but you'll stop hating Qt Jan 13 16:42:06 BCMM, do you use gtk+ DE or KDE? Jan 13 16:42:18 i'm trying to emerge qt-creator Jan 13 16:42:26 so it asked me to change flags Jan 13 16:42:29 is there a way to change the RDS text output by the fm transmitter? Jan 13 16:42:41 I see the app to show calls and texts but i want it to stay static Jan 13 16:43:25 ZogG: i use kde, why? Jan 13 16:43:53 ZogG: change which flags? the flags Qt is built with? Jan 13 16:43:54 BCMM, it asked me so set use flags for qt-* packages Jan 13 16:43:55 i set Jan 13 16:44:02 now it asked to unset some of them Jan 13 16:44:04 i did that too Jan 13 16:44:10 it asked to set them back Jan 13 16:44:14 ZogG: which flags did it want? Jan 13 16:44:16 and it's like forever in loop Jan 13 16:44:45 ZogG: if it helps, i had no trouble building creator on gentoo, and i have (exceptions glib iconv pch qt3support ssl -aqua -debug -doc -optimized-qmake) for qt-core Jan 13 16:45:28 BCMM you use qt anyway Jan 13 16:45:43 i have only qt core qt gui and maybe qt opengl Jan 13 16:46:11 ZogG: yeah, you're gonna need Qt to do Qt development... Jan 13 16:46:41 epp: so tweak the call&mp3-text app Jan 13 16:47:00 BCMM so trying to instal it Jan 13 16:47:03 lemme show Jan 13 16:47:11 http://i.imgur.com/HoOVe.png Jan 13 16:47:15 here we go Jan 13 16:47:46 that's one way to show me the output of a command... Jan 13 16:48:59 ZogG: it looks like it requires that assistant and the rest of Qt match, in terms of the debug flag Jan 13 16:49:00 You have gento on your phone? Jan 13 16:49:11 (and qt3support) Jan 13 16:49:25 lolcat: i think he's trying to do qt development on a gentoo desktop] Jan 13 16:49:42 woof Jan 13 16:49:49 @epp :fmtx_client Jan 13 16:51:18 BCMM: On his phone? Oo Jan 13 16:51:47 lolcat: no, i think he's developing *for* the phone Jan 13 16:52:18 BCMM: IIRC it is a UMPC with phone capabilities, not a phone. Jan 13 16:53:10 ZogG: did that work? Jan 13 16:53:51 BCMM, man i hate qt, why does gtk doesn't have those problems Jan 13 16:54:20 What problems? Jan 13 16:54:22 ZogG: GTK is just a GUI lib. Jan 13 16:54:25 I think qt is brilliant, if you say it it sounds like cutie! Jan 13 16:54:35 ZogG: Qt is much more than that, so gentoo splits it up into seperate ebuilds Jan 13 16:54:48 lolcat: it's meant to be just "cute" actually :P Jan 13 16:54:50 ZogG: the only problem here is that you're trying to mix-and-match debugging support for them Jan 13 16:55:08 ZogG: set the debug and qt3support flags for all qt components or for none of them Jan 13 16:55:33 Qt is more like, gtk + glib + glib-gobject + pango + cairo + a load of other stuff Jan 13 16:55:36 (and even if there is a real problem, it's with gentoo, not Qt) Jan 13 16:56:35 alterego: I pronounce it as CUTIE! Jan 13 16:57:20 x11-libs/qt-sql-4.7.1-r1 (Change USE: +debug +qt3support) Jan 13 16:57:23 - x11-libs/qt-assistant-4.7.1 (Change USE: -debug -qt3support) Jan 13 16:57:25 BCMM, Jan 13 16:57:41 lolcat: well, you'd be laughed at if you said that at a conference :P Jan 13 16:58:09 ZogG:you're issue is gentoo is a shit Jan 13 16:58:15 lolcat is not like longcat anyway Jan 13 16:58:24 I don't go to confrences, I don't go outside, period. Jan 13 16:58:32 alterego, no it's not, it's all dependies in Qt Jan 13 16:58:35 Install a real distro and continue using gentoo as the toy it is Jan 13 16:58:42 always happened to me for qt releated stuff Jan 13 16:58:54 m'hmm ... Jan 13 16:58:55 ZogG: "one of" Jan 13 16:59:11 alterego: gentoo's ok, he's just using it oddly Jan 13 16:59:21 lets not have a distro flamewar Jan 13 16:59:30 alterego, are you serious? if in "real" distro it just installs everythingm and i men everything in qt it doesn't mean it's good if you even don't need half of it. stick to ubuntu pal =) Jan 13 16:59:38 lolcat: if you don't go outside, why do you need a smartphone? Jan 13 16:59:49 People use it, they complain at other projects when they know it's the fact that Gentoo package management is retarded. Jan 13 16:59:55 But that is all I have to say on the matter :P Jan 13 17:00:00 ZogG: have you tried just setting the debug and qt3support flags consistently? Jan 13 17:00:55 alterego, lol, if they just use so complicated structure that everything depends on everything i wish like for Qt and KDE to make their own KDEdistro Jan 13 17:01:23 BCMM everytime i change flag they ask to change it bakc and than back and so on on loop Jan 13 17:01:26 i give up Jan 13 17:01:34 ZogG: have you tried setting them *consistently* yet? Jan 13 17:02:06 ZogG: debian, ubuntu, fedora, suse don't have this problem. Ask yourself, what are you actually gaining using gentoo? Jan 13 17:02:44 ZogG: this would be most easilly achieved by removing all reference to qt in package.use and setting qt3support globally Jan 13 17:02:47 please, please try that Jan 13 17:03:07 do not want Jan 13 17:03:20 i have things i don't qwant qt or qt3support Jan 13 17:03:25 i don't use qt Jan 13 17:03:29 and don't like it Jan 13 17:03:37 so i wated to set the minimum Jan 13 17:03:40 ZogG: qt3support only applies to qt ebuilds, and i didn't ask you to touch the qt flag Jan 13 17:04:03 ZogG: qt3support is Qt4's stuff for making ports of qt3 stuff easier Jan 13 17:04:22 alterego, the problem is here if you like your distro to set things for you instead of you and if you install package to install it with everything even if you don't need it - use windows =) Jan 13 17:04:30 BCMM i know Jan 13 17:04:48 ZogG: so setting qt3support globally won't effect anything but Qt packages! Jan 13 17:07:17 ZogG: so what's the problem with just setting qt3support globally? Jan 13 17:07:37 soooo i installed multiboot kernel, it lagged up my phone so I tried to go back to kernel power, it wouldnt so i installed normal kernel, tried upgrading after than but i still cant overclock Jan 13 17:07:59 ZogG: oh, and once you've got the flags set consistently, it may choke on which order to do stuff in, so just uninstall the current Qt mess and start again Jan 13 17:09:08 same thing Jan 13 17:09:14 x11-libs/qt-declarative-4.7.1-r2 (Change USE: -qt3support) Jan 13 17:09:15 - x11-libs/qt-assistant-4.7.1 (Change USE: +qt3support) Jan 13 17:09:58 Do you have KDE installed? Jan 13 17:10:04 hiow it can ask me x11-libs/qt-sql-4.7.1-r1 (Change USE: +qt3support) Jan 13 17:10:08 Just install Nokia Qt SDK ... Jan 13 17:10:12 if i have qt3support globally Jan 13 17:10:15 It has all the libs in there. Jan 13 17:10:21 alterego just deleted it =) Jan 13 17:10:30 ZogG: that cannot be right, because it's asking you turn qt3support on for assistant Jan 13 17:10:32 alterego, would i have a problem if i had KDE? Jan 13 17:10:38 ZogG: remove reference to Qt in package.use Jan 13 17:10:44 KDE probably requires qt3support Jan 13 17:10:51 i believe it does Jan 13 17:11:09 BCMM i did it Jan 13 17:11:23 ZogG: have you uninstalled the current mess yet? Jan 13 17:11:30 but it asks for x11-libs/qt-gui,core,script,declaration private-headers Jan 13 17:12:31 ZogG: what's "private-headers"? Jan 13 17:13:16 ZogG: also, would you mind pastebinning output of eix qt- and contents of make.conf and package.use? Jan 13 17:15:15 ZogG: what's "private-headers"? // use flag Jan 13 17:17:22 private headers are internal Qt headers that allow closely related classes to reference data between themselves but maintain outside opacity by being dropped in a normal -dev package. Jan 13 17:17:30 They usually end in _p.h Jan 13 17:18:16 ZogG: that's odd, i don't need that flag, and i have qt-creator Jan 13 17:18:26 ZogG: but you could just turn it on like it asks Jan 13 17:18:55 BCMM i do turn on like it asks Jan 13 17:19:02 globally? Jan 13 17:19:20 BCMM but if it asksk to turn on qt3support for qt-something1 Jan 13 17:19:34 and than it asks to turn off it Jan 13 17:19:46 and than off at other qt-somethin2 and on on something1 Jan 13 17:19:51 what is the point? Jan 13 17:19:55 in life... Jan 13 17:19:55 ZogG: and this is with no qt packages installed and no reference to qt in packages.use? Jan 13 17:20:18 with references exactly as it askes me Jan 13 17:20:29 and i have qt-core and gui and opengl i think Jan 13 17:20:31 that's it Jan 13 17:20:43 do i have to uninstall normal kernel after i install power kernel? Jan 13 17:20:50 ZogG: would you mind pastebinning "eix qt-" output? Jan 13 17:20:54 (if you use eix) Jan 13 17:21:02 sure i do Jan 13 17:21:32 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/320090/ Jan 13 17:21:32 epp: doesn't power kernel come with great big warnings to not uninstall it in the normal way through HAM or apt-get? Jan 13 17:22:07 BCMM i didnt see Jan 13 17:22:15 BCMM, i installed it through apt Jan 13 17:22:16 BCMM he was talking about normal kernel Jan 13 17:22:21 ZogG: do you want debug support in qt or not, btw? Jan 13 17:22:36 i don't care Jan 13 17:22:49 ZogG: how is hte debug flag set for the rest of the system? Jan 13 17:22:50 at least it emerges =) Jan 13 17:23:51 dev-libs/libusb debug doc Jan 13 17:23:51 dev-util/gtk-doc debug doc Jan 13 17:23:55 that's all Jan 13 17:25:20 ZogG: ok, so can you pastebin the output of emerge -pv qt-creator? Jan 13 17:25:27 BCMM but seriously Qt is much more complicated with flags and dependies Jan 13 17:26:34 ZogG: it's not a problem with Qt. it's because gentoo has split Qt up into modular ebuilds Jan 13 17:27:03 this is actually a good thing for people that might have one or two Qt apps and not need opengl support in qt Jan 13 17:27:57 BCMM, found the problem =) Jan 13 17:28:02 ZogG: ? Jan 13 17:28:12 BCMM you would laught at me Jan 13 17:28:43 what was wrong? Jan 13 17:29:01 i had -qt3support in make.conf =) Jan 13 17:29:45 BCMM so even when i turned it on, i just made to flags =) Jan 13 17:29:45 ZogG: thats why i wanted you to pastebin that... Jan 13 17:30:00 i don't like qt anyway Jan 13 17:30:06 were you worreid i'd laugh at your cflags? Jan 13 17:30:14 and i turned it off probably year ago Jan 13 17:30:23 just don't use anything qt so i didn't need it Jan 13 17:30:53 $ cat /etc/make.conf |wgetpaste Jan 13 17:30:53 Your paste can be seen here: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/320101/ Jan 13 17:31:01 nothing to laught about i think Jan 13 17:32:42 "i don't like qt anyway" 1) Why? 2) There is no reason for the above incident to effect your opinions of Qt. Jan 13 17:33:54 BCMM i hated it before that's all Jan 13 17:34:08 i'm using xfce4 for a long time now Jan 13 17:34:18 why, other than a tribal dedication to GTK+? Jan 13 17:34:19 and as i was new to linux i liked amarok Jan 13 17:34:31 so i used it Jan 13 17:35:05 but everytime with global updates in qt something was broken Jan 13 17:42:56 hey can somebody help me resetting my n900? i downloaded the COMBINED global image and flashed it successfully, but there is also the EMMC image containing updates! the weired thing is though that the nokia download page said ALWAYS flash EMMC first and then FIASCO! what does that mean? Jan 13 17:43:22 crap, i am playing a local mp3 stream from my mediaserver (Liquidsoap) and Mediaplayer suddenly drops the audio and rebuffers Jan 13 17:43:26 is the FIASCO img the COMBINED? Jan 13 17:43:51 * trumee hope that MohammadAGs player doesnt do that Jan 13 17:44:54 yes, fiasco is combined Jan 13 17:45:34 and if i install the latest maemo 5 combined global release! do i have to flash emmc also? or what is emmc for? Jan 13 17:47:42 I'm not sure any significant changes have been made to emmc Jan 13 17:47:56 flashing emmc is more of a "clear the device" thing Jan 13 17:48:28 ok, ill stick to combined then :) thx for help Jan 13 17:48:54 The warning is there because if you only flash emmc, you end up with unusable system Jan 13 17:53:06 so, fiasco,reboot,emmc = broken system. emmc,reboot,fiasco = first broken then working system hopefully. emmc,fiasco and fiasco,emmc without booting the device in between is also fine. and flashing just the fiasco is also fine provided the filesystems already existing on device emmc are otherwise healthy Jan 13 17:56:08 it requires quite a lot of practice to be able to get the full flashing "timings" right Jan 13 17:56:34 MohammadAG: hmhm, on your new shiny mediaplayer, is there a random album playback mode? Jan 13 18:00:24 BCMM, so did you laugh at my make.conf? =) Jan 13 18:00:36 ZogG: nah, not really Jan 13 18:01:08 the USE flag abuse made me slightly disappointed that you didn't have hilarious cflags :) Jan 13 18:04:27 BCMM like? Jan 13 18:05:15 -march=native i think is pretty enuf, but i might be wrong Jan 13 18:06:00 BCMM: is -march=hilarious a hilarious useflag? :) Jan 13 18:06:17 ZogG: marg=native is a good idea Jan 13 18:06:25 ZogG: i said you didn't have any funny cflags Jan 13 18:06:41 -funroll-loops would count as funny Jan 13 18:06:53 s/marg/march/ Jan 13 18:07:39 setting both -mtune and -mcpu is surprisingly popular, but meaningless Jan 13 18:07:52 -Omgfast Jan 13 18:17:05 BCMM: -march=native == bad when distcc :) Jan 13 18:19:47 -O99999 Jan 13 18:21:05 btw, that's not USE flag abuse.. your USE flag var should be insanely long like that in most circumstances Jan 13 18:22:02 hm, how can i allow my user to read /dev/fuse? Jan 13 18:23:05 i have installed sshfs but when i want to mount a volume it says "fuse: failed to open /dev/fuse: Permission denied Jan 13 18:23:28 an ls -las of /dev/fuse gives me "0 crw-rw---- 1 root root 10, 229 Jan 13 16:38 /dev/fuse" Jan 13 18:24:21 i guess "chown root:user" won't be a permanent fix, will it? Jan 13 18:24:28 nope Jan 13 18:24:38 but it will be until you reboot Jan 13 18:25:12 hm, how can i make there a permanent fix (besides putting user to the root group?) Jan 13 18:25:20 a udev rules file Jan 13 18:25:41 some security on the n900 is totally wrong (like user seeing /root) but stuff like ping is blocked?! Jan 13 18:26:18 ping requires root on any system. the issue on the n900 is that the ping binary is not setuid because doing that means busybox would be setuid. Jan 13 18:26:22 javispedro: can you maybe help me out with that rule a bit? :) so far i've not used udev extensively :) Jan 13 18:26:26 javispedro: not on mine Jan 13 18:26:36 arch it wasn't and neither it is in gentoo Jan 13 18:26:37 on your system the ping binary is setuid Jan 13 18:28:18 hm... so again busybox hellishly annoying and useful as a potatoe? wow, i really am impressed... Jan 13 18:28:24 mikki-kun: create a text file named fuse.rules with something like Jan 13 18:28:27 KERNEL=="fuse", MODE="0666" Jan 13 18:28:51 and save it under /etc/udev/rules.d Jan 13 18:29:04 hm, 0666 ? Jan 13 18:29:08 not 666? Jan 13 18:29:39 don't remember if it matters or not, but since I don't want to look it up, 0666. Jan 13 18:30:32 http://reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html also uses leading zero Jan 13 18:30:46 hm, just curious where leading 0 comes into play :) Jan 13 18:30:55 it's convention, if not required, to specify the full 4 digit permissions Jan 13 18:30:56 on C a leading 0 means octal literal ahead Jan 13 18:31:11 also indicates no special bit :P Jan 13 18:31:55 ieatlint: what does this special bit do? indicate it being a sym-link? Jan 13 18:31:57 http://i.imgur.com/DQIbA.png - Angry Birds under wine =) Jan 13 18:32:22 heh, here's an annoying question i was once asked during an interview.. what size (int bits) are unix permissions? Jan 13 18:33:08 mikki-kun: it supports setuid and the sticky bit Jan 13 18:33:14 think there's a third... hrm Jan 13 18:33:27 setgid Jan 13 18:33:36 yes, right Jan 13 18:33:51 hm, isn't that then 10 bits? Jan 13 18:34:04 mikki-kun: the ping thing isn't an intentional restriction because of ping being insecure or something Jan 13 18:34:08 uhhh, 9 i mean Jan 13 18:34:38 it's 16 bits Jan 13 18:34:46 mikki-kun: ping requires root access. on a typical linux box, it's installed SUID, but that's not an option for BB because of it all being in one binary, and them not wanting to make sh SUID :) Jan 13 18:35:11 four bits for each: special mode, root mode, group mode, user mode Jan 13 18:35:24 BCMM: totally kills then "-f Flood ping. [...] Only the super-user may use this option with zero interval." Jan 13 18:35:27 err, was it 3... man i suck at this .. :P Jan 13 18:35:36 might be 12, i got the question wrong :P Jan 13 18:35:48 ieatlint: r/w/x for each u/g/o? Jan 13 18:35:49 mikki-kun: an SUID program can detect who ran it, see sudo Jan 13 18:36:07 i am free od sudo on my boxes Jan 13 18:36:17 if something needs root i "su -c" Jan 13 18:36:32 or have a root somewhere running if i do some more commands Jan 13 18:36:34 rwx would then fit in 2 bits, no? Jan 13 18:36:42 3 =) Jan 13 18:36:48 mikki-kun: well, su then Jan 13 18:36:56 mikki-kun: su is setuid Jan 13 18:37:00 mikki-kun: (i don't have sudo either) Jan 13 18:37:07 yeah, it's 3... because permissions are flags, not added value Jan 13 18:37:22 javispedro: yes, it can also be unset of course :-) Jan 13 18:37:22 ieatlint: su - change user ID or become superuser Jan 13 18:37:45 mikki-kun: see "man setuid" Jan 13 18:37:47 may I suggest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setuid Jan 13 18:37:53 ieatlint: man su =p Jan 13 18:38:11 yes, setuid() is what programs like su call Jan 13 18:38:25 it runs the program as root, and only root can call setuid() Jan 13 18:38:34 so it allows the program to set any uid on the system Jan 13 18:38:57 how things like sudo, su work Jan 13 18:39:19 and yeah, ok, unix permissions are 12... i think it was 16 i answered in the interview, hehe Jan 13 18:40:20 why now 12? Jan 13 18:40:31 is there any information out there about what enables you to "cold flash" (recovering from dead nolo bootloader) the n900? Jan 13 18:40:41 yes Jan 13 18:40:47 ~coldflash Jan 13 18:40:48 from memory, coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing Jan 13 18:40:57 see the wiki Jan 13 18:41:10 yes, but what enables you to cold flash the n900? Jan 13 18:41:19 usb Jan 13 18:41:29 ieatlint: perms are four octal digits, right? Jan 13 18:42:11 MohammadAG: which component? Nokia feature or something the usb chips provide? Jan 13 18:42:12 mikki-kun: so the regular permissions are rwx (3 bits) for each root, group and user... then 3 more bits for the special mode, which are setuid, setgid and sticky bit Jan 13 18:42:31 perolsen, SoC OMAP3 afaik Jan 13 18:42:32 BCMM: yes, but often abbreviated to 3 digits to represent just rwx for root/group/user Jan 13 18:43:04 MohammadAG: ok, thanks Jan 13 18:43:32 and they're treated as flags... so the bits are 000/rwx. thus, any permission you set that is odd has execute permissions Jan 13 18:43:49 ieatlint: so that makes 3*4=12 bits, right? Jan 13 18:43:57 yeah Jan 13 18:53:01 Hey anyone here use sygic maps? Jan 13 18:53:15 I can't get it to find any maps... Jan 13 18:56:07 whatwhat, did you put the maps in the right place Jan 13 18:56:14 ? Jan 13 18:56:38 and did you actually buy it? Jan 13 18:56:44 the installer should handle it Jan 13 18:56:56 and piracy isn't tolerated here :) Jan 13 18:57:28 i still need to figure out how to re-register my maps with my newly replaced phone... :| Jan 13 18:57:43 trip0: don't they use serials? Jan 13 18:57:55 ohhh, wait Jan 13 18:58:10 i have a license key or whatever, but they map it to a device Jan 13 18:58:10 were they on an per imei basis? Jan 13 18:58:32 maybe call them and tell them you broke your device and got a new one? Jan 13 18:58:41 or fake the IMEI Jan 13 18:58:43 :p Jan 13 18:58:43 yeah, that's probably what i need to do Jan 13 18:58:57 whuts the IMEI? Jan 13 18:59:36 tells you in the about section found in settings :) Jan 13 19:00:08 serial number, illegal to fake Jan 13 19:00:12 ahh Jan 13 19:00:16 MohammadAG: how do you do that? Ö.ö Jan 13 19:00:36 what's the map file extention? Jan 13 19:00:38 .map? Jan 13 19:00:39 nokia service center has the old phone, so it'd be difficult to fake it with the old one :| Jan 13 19:00:55 mikki-kun, easiest way would be to fake the dbus signal, a la fmtx-faker Jan 13 19:01:00 whatwhat, you basically need to follow the instructions that came with it to install the maps Jan 13 19:04:31 i love init 0'ing my n900 (instead of exectung halt; dunno why) Jan 13 19:06:00 wow, the n900 even keeps after a reboot stuff which wasn't opened and shows them in the manager Jan 13 19:06:09 at least for a second Jan 13 19:06:20 like you getting a message Jan 13 19:07:24 * alterego contemplates writing a "Windows 7 vs. Windows 95" thread on tmo Jan 13 19:07:36 hm, why, if i sshfs's some other dir root cannot see it or even access it? Jan 13 19:07:37 I think in some ways I actually prefered windows 95 Jan 13 19:08:05 alterego, you are feeling sick aren't you? Jan 13 19:08:13 alterego: being more DOS-like than win7? Jan 13 19:08:15 I just did a load of washing up Jan 13 19:08:32 I now have a, quite painful, headache Jan 13 19:09:31 MohammadAG: thanks for the guide to the bootloader :o Jan 13 19:09:49 yw, thank jacekowski Jan 13 19:10:14 now i can go and do whatever i want with it without the fear of it locking me out :) Jan 13 19:10:42 i was kinda anxious in killing the bootloader somehow Jan 13 19:11:47 mikki-kun: that's why we leave it up to people that aren't afraid to brick their devices. Jan 13 19:12:11 Or have the means to flash via a jig Jan 13 19:12:17 * alterego would like a jig Jan 13 19:12:18 jig? Jan 13 19:12:38 I just noticed that my n900 can't ping other devices on my network Jan 13 19:12:47 it will ping the gateway Jan 13 19:13:00 but not my desktop or mediacenter :S Jan 13 19:13:24 Basically a peripheral that allows more lower level debugging of a N900 Jan 13 19:13:25 anyone know why it can't ping? Jan 13 19:13:30 One of which is a low level flash Jan 13 19:13:50 Where as flasher relies on the first few stages of the bootloader to be operating. Jan 13 19:14:00 alterego: does the pinout under the battery include JTAG? Jan 13 19:14:12 no, afaik Jan 13 19:14:15 wmarone: not as far as I know Jan 13 19:14:23 It has usb and rs232 Jan 13 19:14:27 Well, ttl Jan 13 19:14:29 oh, so just special pins to access the OneNAND? Jan 13 19:14:32 Not actually RS232 Jan 13 19:14:34 rs232 is what? Jan 13 19:14:37 serial Jan 13 19:14:56 kernel debug output gets sent there Jan 13 19:15:05 and nolo console Jan 13 19:15:12 Good for watching for kernel panics and issues during boot. Jan 13 19:15:12 hm... so the battery connection is the real connection to the n900? Jan 13 19:15:21 Define "real" :P Jan 13 19:15:52 if yo want total access over it Jan 13 19:16:01 *you Jan 13 19:16:49 Well, it's not total access. Jan 13 19:17:07 It just allows you to flash the nand when you don't have a working bootloader. Jan 13 19:17:17 Which is useful when you're messing with that kind of thing. Jan 13 19:17:46 or talk to NOLO Jan 13 19:17:57 when it feels lonely Jan 13 19:18:11 More like replace it when it's being a b*tch ;) Jan 13 19:18:36 iirc, nolo is signed by the TPM module in the OMAP, no? Jan 13 19:18:58 But we can already do that, it's just if you want to modify it, then have a jig is a good way to counter the fear of bricking and having to send it to someone that does (Nokia Care) Jan 13 19:19:28 wmarone: Not sure, I thought that kind of protection is implemented in Symbian, but probably not in Maemo tb Jan 13 19:19:57 the bootloader can be signed, but not actually do any signature checks of its own Jan 13 19:20:20 the N8 has a custom bootloader afaik Jan 13 19:20:22 cause if it was possible I'm sure someone would have attempted to replace nolo with u-boot already Jan 13 19:20:52 No Jan 13 19:20:56 No no no Jan 13 19:21:11 We haven't replaced nolo, because we want to continue to be able to flash our devices. Jan 13 19:21:25 Having nolo boot uboot is a nicer solution and less invasive. Jan 13 19:21:33 replacing NOLO isn't the best of ideas :P Jan 13 19:21:47 Actually, you're apparently right Jan 13 19:21:58 hm... what does NOLO gibe us what other bootloaders don't give? Jan 13 19:21:59 nolo is signed, but nolo doesn't check zimage for signing Jan 13 19:22:14 mikki-kun: it allows us to flash our devices even if it can't fully boot. Jan 13 19:22:32 it also shows NOKIA in blue Jan 13 19:22:43 Yes, that too :) Jan 13 19:22:49 wow... i alwayd wanted that NOKIA killed.... Jan 13 19:23:01 jacekowski, killed it Jan 13 19:23:06 You can modify nolo to not display that ;) Jan 13 19:23:16 oh and it vibrates the device at boot up Jan 13 19:23:23 r&d mode killed that, thankfully Jan 13 19:23:51 lights up that nice blue led too .. Jan 13 19:23:51 i've been in R&D mode for 7+ months lol Jan 13 19:23:58 rd mode displays other crap :P Jan 13 19:24:03 not in R&D mode Jan 13 19:24:11 Kaadlajk, it displays my name and email Jan 13 19:24:33 editing it to do that isn't hard :P Jan 13 19:25:00 (hint: /sbin/preinit) Jan 13 19:25:08 (hint #2, make a backup) Jan 13 19:25:54 alterego, can two UIs exist in one binary? Jan 13 19:26:09 I want something like mediabar --settings Jan 13 19:27:15 MohammadAG: of course, just do window1.show() when args contain --settings or window2.show() for the other. Jan 13 19:27:39 Also, probably best not to even create window1 when you're showing window2 and visa versa Jan 13 19:28:16 through main.cpp right? Jan 13 19:29:46 so if(argv[1] == "--settings") SettingsDialog *dialog; dialog->show(); else Widget *w; Jan 13 19:30:11 Hi Jan 13 19:33:26 talking of Qt, how do you do that maemo-specific thing where the close button turns into a "previous screen" button? Jan 13 19:33:45 stacked window attribute Jan 13 19:34:14 setWindowFlags(Qt::WA_Maemo5StackedWindow) i think Jan 13 19:34:29 it has to be set on the main and sub windows Jan 13 19:34:42 and the window/widget must be a child of the window you want the back button to return to Jan 13 19:34:54 yes Jan 13 19:35:27 MohammadAG: thanks Jan 13 19:35:38 after setting the flag to both parent and child, just show() the child window Jan 13 19:35:49 back works "automatically" Jan 13 19:36:05 automagically* Jan 13 19:36:06 What can the Nokia tool FLS-5 do? Jan 13 19:36:35 isn't that the supposed service thing Jan 13 19:37:23 sorry, was a lil afk... MohammadAG is there somewhere maybe a guide in showing a selfmade logo? :) Jan 13 19:37:44 mikki-kun, you can break it, not change it :P Jan 13 19:37:55 MohammadAG: yes, it seems like a Nokia service tool. I'm quite curious of which functions it has Jan 13 19:38:01 ask jacekowski when he's on Jan 13 19:38:14 perolsen, probably something like NSU Jan 13 19:38:43 ieatlint: unix perms are 16, 3 x 4 for ugo * rwxs, plus 4 for dir, pipe, whatnot Jan 13 19:38:48 some fail safe flashing procedure, that is? Jan 13 19:39:41 ieatlint: though iirc you can have 32 optionally Jan 13 19:39:50 MohammadAG: why can't i replacve it? Jan 13 19:39:54 and of yourse you can have ACLs Jan 13 19:40:17 NOLO's closed source Jan 13 19:40:36 plus NOLO is signed Jan 13 19:40:51 :( *wants grub* Jan 13 19:40:53 so even when it were open, you can't modify it Jan 13 19:40:54 you can change the image though Jan 13 19:41:03 signed? and probably verified then... Jan 13 19:41:06 ahhh :) Jan 13 19:41:17 that's what i intended ;) Jan 13 19:41:45 i would just kill the nokia there and show my own image Jan 13 19:42:15 the playstation 3 also had signed loaders, but in this case is the verification done by a module in the omap processor? Jan 13 19:43:20 the playstation 3 is the worst example to use Jan 13 19:43:29 hehe Jan 13 19:43:30 the root keys are out, you can sign what you want Jan 13 19:44:07 that was the point, but I suppose Nokia knows how to use random numbers :-) Jan 13 19:44:12 perolsen: rom-bootloader verifies 1st stage xldr(?), xldr(?) does or doesn't verify NOLO 2nd stage BL Jan 13 19:45:59 perolsen: rom-bl's key is hidden somewhere inside rom, and possibly is even TI's. Anyway you won't be able to get the pricate key matching this pubkey, even if you could get hold of the pubkey. For details ask jacekowski Jan 13 19:46:59 jacekowski: I'm not sure what jacekowski said, whether or not 1st stage verifies 2nd stage BL Jan 13 19:47:22 I see. So the ROM is programmed in factory by Nokia Jan 13 19:47:54 I never traced or disassembled it and there's no docs around to read about things related to booting process early stages Jan 13 19:48:21 perolsen: probably by TI in factory, when building the chips Jan 13 19:49:38 it's a "tiny" thing that just tries to load 64kB of code from flash or USB (=coldflash), then verify and execute it. AIUI these 64kB are called xldr Jan 13 19:50:26 xldr in turn loads real NOLO 2nd stage Jan 13 19:52:07 (actually I think those rom-bl usually try to load from *any* serial UART, and if that times out they look for flash based xldr code Jan 13 19:52:24 ) Jan 13 19:53:57 interesting. With my curiosity satisfied I see that the tpm wins Jan 13 19:54:07 yeah :-S Jan 13 19:54:46 that's why I'm a furious foe of security framework Jan 13 19:55:55 isn't the initialization of radio modules, gsm and other stuff done in an "encoded" format? So why this lockdown? Jan 13 19:58:33 perolsen: the room-bl is TI OMAP standard it seems Jan 13 19:58:51 incl the signing function Jan 13 20:00:29 it's up to the OEM to decide if they want to continue this "chain of trust" through all the bootloader stages until kernel, like moto milestone did, or simply don't care about any verification for 2nd level bootloader Jan 13 20:00:55 ah Jan 13 20:01:28 perolsen: and as mentioned above I'm not sure what jacekowski said how Nokia xldr does it, whether it verifies NOLO or not Jan 13 20:02:45 (always assuming my picture about rom-bl -> xldr -> NOLO -> kernel is correct) Jan 13 20:03:24 found something here: http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project Jan 13 20:03:48 reading time. bbl Jan 13 20:04:53 sooo uhhh, if i have any questions regarding the bootloader jace is the correct person to ask? Jan 13 20:10:06 mikki-kun: depends on the question really. Jan 13 20:11:17 hm, changing the image displayed there and then reflashing the bootloader :) Jan 13 20:11:30 kermit connection \o/ Jan 13 20:14:37 mikki-kun: the image displayed in early boot process rather certainly is from NOLO. You could unpack a FIASCO img, scrutinze the NOLO binary, and spot what you think might be graphical data. Then you edit some bytes/pixel there (e.g. from 0x00 to 0xff), and coldflash the tweaked NOLO. Then see if device boots at all, or refuses to boot a NOLO that has wrong signature Jan 13 20:15:18 change the pic by viy hexedit?! Ö.ö Jan 13 20:15:21 *via Jan 13 20:15:37 isn't it contained in a file? :( Jan 13 20:15:42 sure, there's probably not much choice ;-) Jan 13 20:16:00 hmm, the instructions about flashing Android devices on xda are rather unilluminating Jan 13 20:16:02 i mean in something like a .jpg (i know, the worst format to use, but just as an example) Jan 13 20:16:03 nah, the whole NOLO is an image Jan 13 20:16:47 * lardman would prefer an explanation of what the steps do and why they are needed, rather than a recipe Jan 13 20:17:13 I'd be rather surprised to find something in this NOLO image that resembles the concept of a file Jan 13 20:17:29 lardman: which steps? Jan 13 20:17:44 hm... that means i can't e.g. take a .jpg and use the hex-values from there?= Jan 13 20:17:58 that depends Jan 13 20:18:01 ok, maybe i could, but i must strip the header properly Jan 13 20:19:20 if NOLO has a large byte array const that holds the gfx data in a format similar to .jpg, then you might be able to copy the content of another jpg picture to this adress range Jan 13 20:19:33 mikki-kun: yep, exactly Jan 13 20:20:27 hm, what is the proper command to extract the fiasco image? :) Jan 13 20:20:29 mikki-kun: anyway, given the code overhead for decoding jpg pictures, I expect to find something simpler than that in NOLO Jan 13 20:20:39 like bmp format for example Jan 13 20:21:00 or a mere image of the video framebuffer RAM Jan 13 20:21:15 --unpack Jan 13 20:21:17 iirc Jan 13 20:21:26 docscrutinizer: like how to flash a Galaxy Tab Jan 13 20:21:45 and therefore how to work out how to flash a Galaxy Tab with a Meego kernel + rootfs Jan 13 20:22:27 lardman: ummmm Jan 13 20:23:08 DocScrutinizer: thanks for your help there :) Jan 13 20:23:15 yw Jan 13 20:25:44 DocScrutinizer: what is the ARG? "--unpack[=ARG]" Jan 13 20:26:18 errr, see the README file shipping with flasher. I can't recall atm Jan 13 20:26:50 probably something like NOLO | rootfs | cmt... Jan 13 20:27:30 ahhh, sorry, i missed the -F infront of the fiasco :/ Jan 13 20:27:50 the manual even tells how to extract and do a cold-boot :) Jan 13 20:28:49 ewwww, why didn't it make a dir and put all the stuff there >.< Jan 13 20:32:08 DocScrutinizer: you maybe recall which one of the files is there the bootloader? http://pastebin.com/eyrvZ75K Jan 13 20:33:36 well, either 2nd.* or secondary.* Jan 13 20:34:14 the ones coming dozens... wow >.< Jan 13 20:35:34 yeah, AIUI flasher checks your hw-version and selects the matching NOLO Jan 13 20:36:44 well *searching them for some clues via od* Jan 13 20:37:04 uhhhh so i must do it for my hw-version? Jan 13 20:37:40 hm, seems my cooking just has to be finished though first Jan 13 20:37:49 yep, and btw it's secondary, as 2nd is for coldflashing Jan 13 20:39:07 so while the both are probably identical, the one gets just transfered to RAM and executed, when you do a coldflash, while secondary is the image that gets actually flashed to NAND -- AIUI :-) Jan 13 20:41:09 you see why it's called "FIASCO" ? :-P Jan 13 20:41:18 h Jan 13 20:41:41 i see it now Jan 13 20:41:56 how can i find out the hw-version? Jan 13 20:43:12 so editing just 2nd is not the correct way go and neither is 'secondary'? but both? Jan 13 20:52:36 mikki-kun: http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/?p=down might have some info in the source doc directory. Possibly outdated (2008) Jan 13 20:54:01 thanks mate :) Jan 13 21:18:39 hey ZogG you hear about the latest aipac scandal? Jan 13 21:18:52 pretty funny shit Jan 13 21:20:53 http://original.antiwar.com/smith-grant/2010/11/14/aipac-bares-all-to-quash-lawsuit/ Obama admin killed the criminal investigation of a spy ring Jan 13 21:21:11 i can't imagine a greater comedy Jan 13 21:21:32 indeed, however that is highly offtopic for this channel Jan 13 21:21:43 offtopic is allowed Jan 13 21:21:55 mikki-kun: the permanently flashed image is the secondary.*, with your hw revision in the name - AIUI Jan 13 21:23:23 but far worse is politics in general killing the economy - USA, europe, etc Jan 13 21:23:33 killing *our* jobs Jan 13 21:28:34 jo Jan 13 21:29:02 hm how can I use debhelper 7 with the debian-squeeze devkit Jan 13 21:29:16 I'm trying to install maemo sdk to ubuntu box. The installation script failed when apt-get updating, and after logging in to the environment and trying it manually, I see that it gets error 302. The addresses in /etc/apt/sources.list are the same as http://repository.maemo.org/#sdk_repositories here Jan 13 21:33:23 DocScrutinizer: may i ask what you refer to as AIUI? :) Jan 13 21:34:05 all my above statements :-) Jan 13 21:34:16 ~aiui Jan 13 21:34:16 methinks aiui is As I Understand It Jan 13 21:35:04 I don't like to state things I'm not sure about - at least without tagging them as speculative Jan 13 21:36:54 writing gtk cell renderers is boring.. Jan 13 21:37:45 ah Jan 13 21:37:49 javis Jan 13 21:38:06 ahhh, thanks, i knew only iirc or afaik/r :) Jan 13 21:38:12 hi woglinde Jan 13 21:38:24 javis do you know how I import the debhelper7 support from debian-sqeeuze-devkit inside the target? Jan 13 21:39:01 I do not think you can. wait a bit. Jan 13 21:39:12 why not? Jan 13 21:39:23 why the hell its there Jan 13 21:40:21 since it was all makefiles and/or scripts so scratchbox found no reason to make it a devkit iirc Jan 13 21:40:43 o.O Jan 13 21:41:30 s/scratchbox/scratchbox packagers Jan 13 21:41:52 no SBOX_REDIRECT trick? Jan 13 21:42:21 but the autobuilder can use it? Jan 13 21:43:13 ok, found it. Jan 13 21:43:21 so, debhelper _is_ on the devkit Jan 13 21:43:29 yes it is Jan 13 21:43:35 otherwise I wouldnt ask Jan 13 21:43:35 thus you do not need to do anything to use it Jan 13 21:43:39 hm Jan 13 21:43:50 I dont see any dh inside the scratchbox Jan 13 21:44:16 hum.. have you enabled the devkit? Jan 13 21:44:25 Compiler: cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 Jan 13 21:44:25 Devkits: perl cputransp doctools git qemu svn debian-squeeze Jan 13 21:44:25 CPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/qemu/bin/qemu-arm-sb Jan 13 21:44:39 can you check if dh_* stuff is there on /scratchbox/devkits/debian-squeeze/bin/ ? Jan 13 21:45:29 hm it is Jan 13 21:45:30 hm Jan 13 21:45:38 hm hm Jan 13 21:45:45 maybee I had to renter it Jan 13 21:45:46 okay Jan 13 21:45:57 nice Jan 13 21:46:10 dunno, there was a problem recently about sbox having incomplete $path Jan 13 21:46:17 dh7 and dh-autoreconf makes packaging a lot easier Jan 13 21:46:37 yeah.. Jan 13 21:48:43 so, happy to hear it works :) Jan 13 21:49:58 * javispedro goes back to writing random bullshit about gobjects and cell rendenrers.. Jan 13 21:52:51 hms Jan 13 21:53:01 now it dont has quilt support Jan 13 21:53:29 ah, quilt is definitely not builtin Jan 13 21:53:44 but there's a package around Jan 13 21:53:47 the debhelper7 package has it in Jan 13 21:54:16 *sigh* Jan 13 21:54:22 autobuilder does preseed quilt, so you don't need to specify it in build-depends Jan 13 21:54:45 javis the quilt stuff is not called from within debhelper Jan 13 21:54:50 thats the problem Jan 13 21:55:02 hum? Jan 13 21:55:10 dh --with quilt worked with debhelper7 package Jan 13 21:55:23 but not with the sqeeze one Jan 13 21:55:24 hm hm Jan 13 21:57:07 weird, is the devkit debhelper missing something? I do not have a full debian around to test Jan 13 21:57:28 hm on debian/ubuntu its in the quilt package self Jan 13 21:57:38 and maemos is too old Jan 13 21:57:42 oh :( Jan 13 22:00:42 hm but /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make is there Jan 13 22:01:24 javispedro, does *anyone* have full debian around? Jan 13 22:01:32 hehe, good point. Jan 13 22:01:35 can a system actually boot if you do apt-get install * Jan 13 22:01:55 at least within a reasonable time Jan 13 22:02:18 lcuk what? Jan 13 22:02:21 well, not every package starts at boot Jan 13 22:02:23 wow, i have an 2101 board :o seems like the first ones produced according to numbers (2101 being smallest when looking at nolo-infos) Jan 13 22:02:52 javispedro, even non auto start apps take time - menus get slow with too many entries etc Jan 13 22:03:16 woglinde, can you actually install and have a usable debian system if you install every package Jan 13 22:08:09 my older n900 is 2101 too iirc :) Jan 13 22:08:39 i bought mine last year jan :) Jan 13 22:11:08 alterego: nolo isn't signed Jan 13 22:11:55 I got mine december 2009 :) Jan 13 22:12:08 alterego: and we can replace it easily Jan 13 22:12:15 HOLA woglinde Jan 13 22:12:25 alterego: as long as we can make replacement thing fit in place where nolo was Jan 13 22:12:37 alterego: and u-boot doing less is about 1.2x bigger Jan 13 22:13:53 jacekowski: XD Jan 13 22:14:51 jacekowski: how hard would it be to get grub there? Jan 13 22:14:52 jacekowski: u-boot is just *doing* less, but it *can do* a lot more. U-Boot: the OS in a bootloader Jan 13 22:14:56 mikki-kun: very Jan 13 22:15:03 mikki-kun: grub is about 10x bigger Jan 13 22:15:26 Ö.ö hm... does grub need all the parts it has? Jan 13 22:15:35 yes Jan 13 22:15:43 and grub has no arm support as far as i know Jan 13 22:19:55 DD-WRT: Because it's fun having to guess when boxes you check in the web GUI don't actually do anything! Jan 13 22:20:45 jacekowski: hm, would you maybe know an easy way to change the "NOKIA" image shown at boot and maybe the background? Jan 13 22:20:58 well, i know where it's stored in nolo binary Jan 13 22:21:10 but it's stored in some strange format i don't understand Jan 13 22:21:20 so, i know how to remove it Jan 13 22:21:27 but change not really Jan 13 22:22:43 can you maybe point me then to the part of where to change it? Jan 13 22:23:36 i mean to change it from being shown Jan 13 22:23:56 depend on exact version of nolo you have Jan 13 22:23:59 sorry oif that sounded like i asked too much :/ Jan 13 22:24:04 2101 it would be Jan 13 22:24:16 that's version of hardware Jan 13 22:24:51 and hmm, i would have to take my other laptop out to find exact address Jan 13 22:25:40 ohhh, hm, nolo would be from pr1.3 Jan 13 22:26:16 i could c&p the contents of 2nd.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103 Jan 13 22:26:24 no need Jan 13 22:27:16 a debugger would probably make it easier Jan 13 22:27:36 perolsen: you mean a hex-viewer? Jan 13 22:27:46 but there are no jtag ports beneath the battery, no? Jan 13 22:27:57 ohhh, so a physical one ^^ Jan 13 22:28:37 yes, to control the cpu execution, read/change data Jan 13 22:28:45 OUCH ---> "Due in part to the free and open source nature of Linux and Maemo, porting applications to Maemo is a straightforward procedure." - wikipedia <-- i think that is why we have people thinking they can request anything and everything is so simple :/ Jan 13 22:29:39 perolsen: nope Jan 13 22:29:42 perolsen: no need for that Jan 13 22:30:33 mikki-kun: thing is that i've disassembled 1.2 version of nolo and 1.3 version is slightly different ( offsets will be different ) Jan 13 22:30:54 disassembly? what's starting address for nolo in memory? Jan 13 22:31:21 hm, i could do a diff of them both and see how much they really differ Jan 13 22:31:26 80400000 Jan 13 22:31:37 mikki-kun: not a lot in terms of function Jan 13 22:31:45 mikki-kun: but everything is shifted by couple of bytes Jan 13 22:31:56 let me just open it Jan 13 22:32:06 hmm Jan 13 22:32:12 can you send me 1.3 nolo Jan 13 22:32:41 you mean the 2nd and secondary? Jan 13 22:32:50 nope Jan 13 22:32:54 just 139k thing Jan 13 22:33:02 hmm Jan 13 22:33:06 they are both same size Jan 13 22:33:10 send both Jan 13 22:33:13 i don't remember now Jan 13 22:33:16 which one is it Jan 13 22:33:25 jacekowski@jacekowski.org Jan 13 22:33:40 i'm going to grab something to it Jan 13 22:33:43 eat* Jan 13 22:33:58 jacekowski: 22:17:15 | DocScrutinizer > mikki-kun: the permanently flashed image is the secondary.*, with your hw revision in the name - AIUI Jan 13 22:34:15 thanks mate :) enjoy your meal :) Jan 13 22:34:50 mikki-kun: thing is that 2nd and secondary are both going in same place Jan 13 22:34:55 mikki-kun: but one is used for coldflashing Jan 13 22:35:05 mikki-kun: and second one i used for normal operation Jan 13 22:35:28 mikki-kun: and i don't remember if it's secondary or 2nd that's used for normal operation Jan 13 22:35:38 and i'd want a cold-flash i guess :) Jan 13 22:35:47 so i mean both Jan 13 22:41:16 you just need one Jan 13 22:41:35 cold flash is only useful if something goes wrong Jan 13 22:45:40 is it the same procedure in flashing? Jan 13 22:54:16 mikki-kun: ok Jan 13 22:54:58 mikki-kun: function loading/displaying picture starts at RAM:804081AC Jan 13 22:55:10 that's offset 81ac in file Jan 13 22:56:38 9F E5 20 <-- at the 9F there? Jan 13 22:57:11 nope Jan 13 22:57:31 uhhh, seem to be at the wrong place... first time actually to go hex ^^' Jan 13 22:58:22 maybe i am also in the wrong file ...d'oh Jan 13 22:59:43 yeah, seems i was :) Jan 13 23:00:13 81AC + next 3 bytes: 2D E9 F0 41 Jan 13 23:00:22 am i correct with those? :) Jan 13 23:01:19 yes Jan 13 23:01:35 good :) Jan 13 23:03:30 so i have to change there a couple of bytes i guess Jan 13 23:04:46 804081BE Jan 13 23:04:48 ehh Jan 13 23:04:52 81be Jan 13 23:04:56 81BE ? Jan 13 23:05:39 b1 Jan 13 23:05:41 found it :) Jan 13 23:05:42 ehh Jan 13 23:05:49 there should be 38b1 there Jan 13 23:06:02 that goes backwards Jan 13 23:06:22 at address 81be Jan 13 23:06:23 i started with 81AC Jan 13 23:06:44 that's function start Jan 13 23:06:45 ahh yeah, there is :) Jan 13 23:06:48 not really important Jan 13 23:07:04 so if you found that 81be Jan 13 23:07:21 change it to c046 Jan 13 23:07:27 save Jan 13 23:07:29 i am now at 81BE which ends with 3B Jan 13 23:07:29 and flash Jan 13 23:07:39 are you sure Jan 13 23:08:04 so the 81BE position reading 3B i should change? Jan 13 23:08:05 this is patching NOLO? Jan 13 23:08:25 mikki-kun: are you sure it's 3B not 38? Jan 13 23:08:29 31B1 is for 81BE and 82BF Jan 13 23:08:42 uhh Jan 13 23:08:47 sorry, wrong numbers Jan 13 23:08:55 i'll just C&P them to be sure :) Jan 13 23:09:02 38 B1 Jan 13 23:09:14 yeah Jan 13 23:09:15 38 Jan 13 23:09:16 that is what i have for 81BE and 81BF Jan 13 23:09:30 change it to c046 Jan 13 23:09:45 SpeedEvil: yes Jan 13 23:10:11 mikki-kun: make a backup of your phone Jan 13 23:10:14 mikki-kun: and flash it Jan 13 23:10:34 mikki-kun: just nolo Jan 13 23:10:37 can't i just flash that part of the bootloader? Jan 13 23:10:41 you can Jan 13 23:10:47 but make a backup anyways Jan 13 23:11:22 is there a way i could make a custom pr1.3 file out of those files i have there? Jan 13 23:11:29 yes Jan 13 23:11:34 but you don't have to Jan 13 23:11:41 you can just flash that single file Jan 13 23:11:52 i want to save space on my disk in case i need further flashes :) Jan 13 23:12:07 anyways Jan 13 23:12:09 test it first Jan 13 23:12:21 ok, *making backup of important files* Jan 13 23:13:19 i'm not sure if changing just that one thing will be enough Jan 13 23:13:38 because all it's doing is making it think that there is no pic number 0 Jan 13 23:13:40 and return error Jan 13 23:14:10 hm, how did you read that from there? :o Jan 13 23:14:22 you speak in hex? ^^ Jan 13 23:14:50 no Jan 13 23:14:53 i have disassembler Jan 13 23:15:10 wow Jan 13 23:15:59 i might be ready to do it in 10 minutes i guess :) my backups seem to be rather huge at times :/ Jan 13 23:16:04 hmm Jan 13 23:16:09 hmm Jan 13 23:16:16 81c0 Jan 13 23:16:21 there should be 00 there Jan 13 23:16:35 you may change it to 01 Jan 13 23:16:38 should i change that as well? :) Jan 13 23:16:45 and that should make everything happy Jan 13 23:16:59 and you may want to start reading Jan 13 23:17:02 ~coldflashing Jan 13 23:17:06 ~coldflash Jan 13 23:17:07 rumour has it, coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing Jan 13 23:17:14 in case something goes wrong Jan 13 23:17:25 i did now change the 00 to 01 as well :) Jan 13 23:17:38 may i ask which dissassembler you used? Jan 13 23:17:53 IDA Jan 13 23:18:37 whats this about disassembly? :P Jan 13 23:18:53 ? Jan 13 23:19:42 what is it that you are disaassembling? Jan 13 23:19:57 lot of different stuff Jan 13 23:20:01 ok Jan 13 23:20:11 NOLO pr1.3 for HW 2101,2102,2103 Jan 13 23:20:39 strange, but the name "nolo" still makes me giggle sometimes. Jan 13 23:20:47 nolo is "embarassing" in finnish Jan 13 23:21:20 jacekowski: I explained the diffs in usage between 2nd and secondary. 2nd is coldflash ramload, secondary is flashing image to NAND Jan 13 23:21:46 AIUI :-D Jan 13 23:21:55 Jartza: not "nölö" ? Jan 13 23:21:59 well, i don't remember which one is which Jan 13 23:22:02 mikki-kun: not :) Jan 13 23:22:13 ohhhh, ok Jan 13 23:22:31 seems my finnish is really rusty then >.< Jan 13 23:22:34 nolo: abashed, embarrassing, uncomfortable Jan 13 23:23:12 heh, Nokia is truly international. FIASCO is rather italian :-P Jan 13 23:23:17 * mikki-kun seriously needs more finnish people around him Jan 13 23:23:35 DocScrutinizer: in german there is the word "Fiasko" indicating something being a total mess Jan 13 23:23:37 gah Jan 13 23:23:49 control panel plugins are a pita Jan 13 23:23:57 yeah, I know Jan 13 23:24:08 * mikki-kun still waits for his backup o finish Jan 13 23:24:12 *to Jan 13 23:24:24 MohammadAG: rewrite control panel for saner use :) Jan 13 23:24:28 XD Jan 13 23:24:33 * MohammadAG headbangs Jan 13 23:24:43 It's starting my app Jan 13 23:24:47 with the args I need Jan 13 23:24:50 but it doesn't show Jan 13 23:24:58 >.> Jan 13 23:26:21 162 MB backup?! Ö.ö Jan 13 23:26:28 seems i have too many mails on it opened Jan 13 23:28:47 jacekowski: in the man there is also described how to coldflash :) Jan 13 23:29:09 smoku: Here? Jan 13 23:39:30 jacekowski: sorry if stuff takes so long, i have a couple of stuff to back-up :/ Jan 13 23:41:07 RST38h, sup? Jan 13 23:42:46 smoku: moo.got aquestion Jan 13 23:43:00 smoku: that Streak you had, how was it unlocked? Jan 13 23:43:22 All the Streaks sold here appear to be locked to AT&T Jan 13 23:43:41 RST38h, www.dell.co.uk sells unlocked Jan 13 23:45:04 smoku: I was under the impression that the "no contract" 3G streaks were still locked to AT&T Jan 13 23:45:19 ah, unk Jan 13 23:45:22 -n Jan 13 23:45:52 wmarone, EU here ;-) Jan 13 23:47:24 yeah I noticed that Jan 13 23:47:39 then I frowned, because Dell persists in being dumb here :( Jan 13 23:48:25 wmarone, don't you have streaks at BestBuy (or how was it called)? Jan 13 23:50:19 I haven't seen any, not locally at least Jan 13 23:51:21 where do I get kernel source for n900, which package do I need? Jan 13 23:52:05 jonwil: you want a self-compiled kernel? Jan 13 23:52:14 maybe try first kernel-power :) Jan 13 23:52:15 no, I just want to look at the source for now Jan 13 23:54:14 hm, sadly i don't know, but the kernel-version should be a minorly or majorly tweaked version of 2.something (states it when you run uname -a on the default kernel) Jan 13 23:58:33 damn why are people asking questions then leave chan? Jan 13 23:58:59 anyway, see /TOPIC Jan 13 23:59:05 mxr is the buzzword Jan 14 00:05:39 DocScrutinizer: thanks from my side :) Jan 14 00:05:45 *reflashing* Jan 14 00:05:51 http://sardine.garage.maemo.org/about.html herring LOL - seems back when they knew how releases should be done Jan 14 00:07:30 * DocScrutinizer stares at mikki-kun - anxious Jan 14 00:09:32 *checking the commands again carefully* Jan 14 00:12:57 (source) http://meego.gitorious.org/ and http://maemo.gitorious.org/ might be of interest as well Jan 14 00:13:10 http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/13/keepin-it-real-fake-nokia-n9-doesnt-wait-for-mature-meego-to/ Jan 14 00:13:40 * DocScrutinizer actually never got the catch why maemo sources need to go to gitorious.org Jan 14 00:13:42 smoku:Yes, but they are evil about pricing. Just found that Dell also sells unlocked now. Jan 14 00:13:48 AT&T bands only Jan 14 00:15:41 ok, i need to nuke the bootloader first as it seems :) Jan 14 00:16:04 mikki-kun: umm? Jan 14 00:16:07 mikki-kun: did it work? Jan 14 00:16:19 jacekowski: obviously not Jan 14 00:16:46 I guess we need to talk mikki-kun thru flashing a new NOLO Jan 14 00:16:47 if i plug the device woithout battery in it is searching only for an USB to flash to Jan 14 00:17:23 you need bat Jan 14 00:17:31 so what have you done so far Jan 14 00:17:32 ahhh, retrying :) Jan 14 00:17:41 yeah, insert it after plugin to PC Jan 14 00:17:53 is it dead or not flashed yet at all? Jan 14 00:17:54 and AFTER starting flasher command Jan 14 00:18:06 it does not flash Jan 14 00:18:22 jacekowski: It won't flash without battery ;-D Jan 14 00:18:25 i turned of the phone, took of the battery, executed the command and _then_ connected the phone via USB Jan 14 00:18:38 yes, now insert battery Jan 14 00:18:39 you need battery in Jan 14 00:18:50 the led even runs for a second Jan 14 00:19:00 ohhh, i need? in the guide you said remove it Jan 14 00:19:09 i mean in the IRC log from then Jan 14 00:19:21 that's coldflashing Jan 14 00:19:22 remove battery, plug in USB, start flasher, insert battery Jan 14 00:19:25 you don't want to do that Jan 14 00:19:29 not yet at least Jan 14 00:19:44 ohhh, nserted battery and it did something :) Jan 14 00:19:51 yep Jan 14 00:19:52 :-D Jan 14 00:20:12 still i see a blue nokia there... hmmmm.... Jan 14 00:20:23 hmm Jan 14 00:20:29 Well guys :( for the first time in 2 years my n810 has failed me. It boots up, loads, and then reboots in a perpetual cycle of sadness. How can I go about fixing this? :/ Jan 14 00:20:29 right now you see the 2nd Jan 14 00:20:29 you may want to modify one more thing in nolo Jan 14 00:20:38 you need to reboot to see secondary Jan 14 00:21:06 DocScrutinizer: it is secondary Jan 14 00:21:17 DocScrutinizer: 2nd is only used when you are coldflashing Jan 14 00:21:18 uhhh... what? *pastebinitin error* Jan 14 00:21:34 mikki-kun: reboot your phone noe Jan 14 00:21:36 now* Jan 14 00:21:48 mikki-kun: and what is exact command you used btw Jan 14 00:21:57 http://pastebin.com/zpaLsitJ Jan 14 00:22:07 in the pastebin as well :) Jan 14 00:22:20 coldflash Jan 14 00:22:21 jacekowski: well, what he sees during flashing NOLO isn't the NOLO he flashed that moment, anyway Jan 14 00:22:40 why are you coldflashing it Jan 14 00:22:59 jacekowski: but yeah, you're right. If he didn't coldflash then it's secondary, not 2nd Jan 14 00:23:16 besides, coldflashing isn't very correct word Jan 14 00:23:22 it's more like coldbooting Jan 14 00:23:53 :nod: Jan 14 00:23:55 mikki-kun: now if you have it in that state you have to ../flasher-3.5 -f --flash-only=secondary -s secondary.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103 Jan 14 00:24:38 coldflashing shouldn't be done to experiment with it Jan 14 00:24:50 it should only be used when you actually bork the bootloader Jan 14 00:25:09 yes dady Jan 14 00:25:10 hm, ok, then i got it from the log there wrong :/ Jan 14 00:25:15 sorry for that :( Jan 14 00:25:18 ~flashing Jan 14 00:25:18 extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 14 00:25:26 but it boots normally from there Jan 14 00:25:51 mikki-kun: but at least we know that you can coldflash Jan 14 00:25:55 mikki-kun: switch of your phone Jan 14 00:26:02 already did :) Jan 14 00:26:03 mikki-kun: actually NOLO is capable of flashing his own NAND program text Jan 14 00:26:17 mikki-kun: and run ../flasher-3.5 -f --flash-only=secondary -s secondary.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103 Jan 14 00:26:19 mikki-kun: you know, it's loaded to RAM by xloader Jan 14 00:26:23 mikki-kun: and unplug usb cable Jan 14 00:26:34 mikki-kun: wait couple seconds to make sure phone is switch off Jan 14 00:26:38 switched off* Jan 14 00:26:51 remove battery Jan 14 00:26:56 no need for that Jan 14 00:27:07 but doesn't hurt and always works Jan 14 00:27:27 hmm Jan 14 00:27:35 press and hold "u" key on keyboard Jan 14 00:27:38 and plug in usb Jan 14 00:27:45 what happens if you pull the battery with a broken primary and while sending secondary Jan 14 00:27:47 and insert battery Jan 14 00:27:57 while holding "u" key Jan 14 00:27:57 sure, it's hard to time that, but what if it's done Jan 14 00:28:10 MohammadAG: nothing Jan 14 00:28:18 MohammadAG: you can always coldflash it Jan 14 00:28:26 *always* Jan 14 00:28:30 i even tried to half flash rapuyama Jan 14 00:28:44 even after dropping it 30ft? Jan 14 00:28:47 and i could still flash it via usb Jan 14 00:28:52 hmm Jan 14 00:28:53 30ft Jan 14 00:28:57 that's 10m in metric Jan 14 00:29:08 depends on landing zone Jan 14 00:29:11 yeah you have quite big chance of that Jan 14 00:29:17 talk to ground master Jan 14 00:29:33 uhhh, jacekowski secondary is not a valid option :/ Jan 14 00:29:42 nolo, kernel, initfs, rootfs, cmt Jan 14 00:29:49 nolo? Jan 14 00:29:57 nolo Jan 14 00:29:58 MohammadAG: nolo Jan 14 00:29:59 just a guess Jan 14 00:30:01 mikki-kun: nolo Jan 14 00:30:12 * MohammadAG stabs jacekowski's tab Jan 14 00:30:15 ;D 3 times the same answer, it must be kernel! :D Jan 14 00:30:32 no, start counting from 0, it has to be rootfs Jan 14 00:30:42 ROAAAR, gimme dinner! Jan 14 00:30:55 * MohammadAG hands DocScrutinizer some doritos Jan 14 00:32:25 jacekowski: am i really too stupid to do it? :/ http://pastebin.com/HJEfpZBk Jan 14 00:32:53 hmm Jan 14 00:32:57 you're flashing primary with secondary image Jan 14 00:33:00 so yes, you are stupid Jan 14 00:33:01 :P Jan 14 00:33:07 you have to add -x xloader...... Jan 14 00:33:22 he doesn't have to supply secondary again afaik Jan 14 00:33:23 and it may want -2nd as well Jan 14 00:33:40 well, it's secondary we want to flash Jan 14 00:34:23 this whole fiasco is really a complete mess, why is secondary primary?! Ö.ö Jan 14 00:34:29 it's not Jan 14 00:34:35 01:28:18 | MohammadAG > you're flashing primary with secondary image Jan 14 00:34:53 * MohammadAG facepalms Jan 14 00:35:05 mikki-kun: just flash it Jan 14 00:35:05 you're supplying the secondary image, it wants a primary one Jan 14 00:35:12 MohammadAG: it wants both Jan 14 00:35:21 regardless, he had them swapped Jan 14 00:35:24 it looks like flasher can't just flash secondary Jan 14 00:35:27 nope Jan 14 00:35:32 ../flasher-3.5 -f --flash-only=nolo -s secondary.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103 -x xloader.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103 Jan 14 00:35:34 he was just missing path to xloader Jan 14 00:35:36 mikki-kun: yes Jan 14 00:35:38 this one correct? Jan 14 00:35:39 mikki-kun: that should work Jan 14 00:35:42 ok good :) Jan 14 00:35:45 maybe Jan 14 00:35:51 it may want -2 as well Jan 14 00:35:59 but try it like that Jan 14 00:36:56 http://pastebin.com/gtsceRM5 :) Jan 14 00:37:30 no vibration Jan 14 00:37:31 ok Jan 14 00:37:37 just the led staying lit Jan 14 00:37:40 now disconnect your phone Jan 14 00:37:47 i did Jan 14 00:37:51 switch it off Jan 14 00:37:54 and switch it back on Jan 14 00:37:58 i pulled the bat Jan 14 00:38:36 and that leaves me now with a LED-stay-lit, none-vibrating, none-booting piece of hardware \o/ Jan 14 00:38:56 at least the LED's lit :) Jan 14 00:38:58 two options Jan 14 00:39:11 well Jan 14 00:39:12 unpack it Jan 14 00:39:14 ehh Jan 14 00:39:17 unpack fiasco again Jan 14 00:39:23 it still is Jan 14 00:39:27 you will need clean secondary Jan 14 00:39:29 not modified Jan 14 00:39:35 ohhh, ok :) Jan 14 00:39:38 and we're going back to coldflashing Jan 14 00:40:04 so you have to do that Jan 14 00:40:06 http://pastebin.com/zpaLsitJ Jan 14 00:40:12 fscking wrong Jan 14 00:40:16 this is what is wrong with gtk Jan 14 00:40:27 it's already 3 hours and I'm yet to fully implement the cell renderer Jan 14 00:40:38 yet I made the _fscking rest of the application_ in less than half an hour Jan 14 00:40:43 mikki-kun: and when boot your phone with that Jan 14 00:40:52 mikki-kun: you will have to use that last command Jan 14 00:40:55 01:30 < mikki-kun> ../flasher-3.5 -f --flash-only=nolo -s secondary.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103 -x xloader.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103 Jan 14 00:41:06 mikki-kun: but with clean secondary instead Jan 14 00:41:18 mikki-kun: and this time without unplugging it in between Jan 14 00:41:43 ok, i will do :) Jan 14 00:41:55 and i'll have to check it on my phone Jan 14 00:42:03 to see if it's that you've done something wrong Jan 14 00:42:05 or me Jan 14 00:42:19 let me try first what you wrote me Jan 14 00:42:24 but that's tomorrow Jan 14 00:43:21 so i execute ../flasher-3.5 -f --flash-only=nolo -s secondary.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103 -x xloader.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103 with the new secondary.bin? Jan 14 00:44:28 with clean secondary.bin Jan 14 00:44:36 yeah Jan 14 00:45:08 so first "flasher-3.5 -c -h RX-51:2101 -2 2nd.bin-RX-51\:2101\,2102\,2103 -s secondary.bin-RX-51\:2101\,2102\,2103 -S usb", then with "../flasher-3.5 -f --flash-only=nolo -s secondary.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103 -x xloader.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103" ? Jan 14 00:45:23 not that i get it wrong :) Jan 14 00:46:54 yes Jan 14 00:46:59 without reboot in between Jan 14 00:47:12 javispedro, there's always Qt Jan 14 00:48:01 both times done :), just uhhh http://pastebin.com/XXXvRZmU is this output ok for the first command to get? Jan 14 00:48:12 good morning Jan 14 00:48:18 yes Jan 14 00:48:33 mikki-kun: what you've got from second command Jan 14 00:49:38 i'll post the whole output of the two commands :) Jan 14 00:49:57 http://pastebin.com/ptW4Aarx Jan 14 00:50:34 should i try with the custom secondary again? Jan 14 00:50:40 yeah Jan 14 00:50:42 that's ok Jan 14 00:50:44 nope Jan 14 00:50:49 no need for that Jan 14 00:50:55 if it's not working then it's not working Jan 14 00:50:59 i have to find out why Jan 14 00:51:08 just make sure it's working now Jan 14 00:51:22 nokia logo came back online Jan 14 00:51:30 and the boot progresses Jan 14 00:51:33 ok Jan 14 00:51:39 dots lighting up Jan 14 00:51:54 http://i56.tinypic.com/2mqqlwp.jpg :) Jan 14 00:52:00 so if i want to flash just the secondary i need to execute later command? :) Jan 14 00:52:07 yes Jan 14 00:52:10 unless phone is dead Jan 14 00:52:15 then you do it with both of them Jan 14 00:52:29 MohammadAG: wow :D Jan 14 00:52:43 jacekowski: thanks, now i learned to flash even nolo :) Jan 14 00:52:44 anyways Jan 14 00:52:48 sleep time Jan 14 00:52:49 MohammadAG, low battery, I am disappoint Jan 14 00:52:55 good night jacekowski Jan 14 00:52:58 sleep well and hell of a lot of thanks :) Jan 14 00:53:00 i've got a new fake battery in my phone Jan 14 00:53:04 it lasts like 4x longer Jan 14 00:53:15 Termana, charging animation, it's moving and I took the screenshot when it was low, big whoop Jan 14 00:53:17 night jacekowski Jan 14 00:53:32 MohammadAG: nope Jan 14 00:53:40 MohammadAG: it's green when it's charging isn't it Jan 14 00:53:49 that is green lol Jan 14 00:54:00 * Termana thinks someone is a little cranky, forgot his milk and can't take a joke :p Jan 14 00:54:03 hmm Jan 14 00:54:06 you can see the USB symbol :p Jan 14 00:54:22 * MohammadAG throws bri... N900s at Termana Jan 14 00:54:37 good night Jan 14 00:54:48 night Jan 14 00:55:07 hey pitches Jan 14 00:55:18 Oh noooo Jan 14 00:55:41 you didn't want me to come over? Jan 14 00:55:54 wow, that was like the first time i flashed a bootloader without even knowing i flashed it ^^ well, somewhere one has to start :) Jan 14 01:01:42 but wow, great community support here :) Jan 14 01:02:01 MohammadAG: btw, are the shortcuts up there supposed to show? Jan 14 01:03:12 mikki-kun, doh http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68249 :P Jan 14 01:03:38 MohammadAG: you need to tell me how to get your personal rss-feeds ;) Jan 14 01:04:25 I think I have a tag on tmo now :p Jan 14 01:05:57 I accept donations in .patch file currencies Jan 14 01:05:58 :P Jan 14 01:06:24 hm, so far i don't have any real coding experiences :/ Jan 14 01:06:31 especially not in qt :( Jan 14 01:07:00 you'll learn, if you want to ;) Jan 14 01:07:27 how do you hold the proximity sensor...?? Jan 14 01:07:33 press it down Jan 14 01:07:33 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> morning all. thought i'd poke my head in before heading off to bed. Jan 14 01:07:50 morning [DrkGUNMAN-N900] Jan 14 01:08:11 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> did i miss much MohammadAG? Jan 14 01:08:12 other than on the n900 i am pretty spartanic on my setup... i am even considering to kill firefox and conkeror for now and then i can say my whole netbook gets even 10% more efficient Jan 14 01:09:03 i am running mostly CLI versions of stuff and rely heavily on my command line Jan 14 01:09:07 MohammadAG: i am missing something ;( is there a button or...? Jan 14 01:09:10 mikki-kun, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-06-20.log.html#t2010-06-20T15:47:02 Jan 14 01:09:17 chx, no, just cover the proximity sensor Jan 14 01:09:31 oh! cover. where it is :) ? Jan 14 01:09:40 next to the camera Jan 14 01:09:44 front one ;) Jan 14 01:09:53 i am MohammadAG i started with c++ in university... with a bad professor :/ Jan 14 01:09:59 good that i found the camera the other day, it was not easy :) Jan 14 01:10:22 chx: there is even an ambient-light sensor Jan 14 01:10:26 in case you didn't know Jan 14 01:10:30 i didnt Jan 14 01:10:32 3 things close to each other there Jan 14 01:10:33 mikki-kun, you can see from the logs I didn't know anything about C/C++ in June Jan 14 01:10:42 Actually, learned it in september, thanks to Venemo and alterego Jan 14 01:10:55 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> only major coding experience ive had so far is vbscript, wmi and autoit Jan 14 01:10:58 * MohammadAG owes them a lot Jan 14 01:11:30 MohammadAG: some are quick learners though as well... i was never good in languages Jan 14 01:11:42 it died somehow after the age of 10 i guess Jan 14 01:11:53 i had huge problems in french... Jan 14 01:11:58 First rule of learning a language, learn it in a non-boring way Jan 14 01:12:02 i.e, no books Jan 14 01:12:17 mikki-kun, french is weird anyway, I don't blame you :P Jan 14 01:12:21 MohammadAG: usually that involves a girlfried Jan 14 01:12:33 lmfao Jan 14 01:12:34 then it never gets boring to learn the new language :) Jan 14 01:12:59 but i can't have that many GFs at the same time Jan 14 01:13:10 and wome usually don't speak c++ or qt :/ Jan 14 01:13:14 *women Jan 14 01:13:44 any women here speaking c++/qt?! Jan 14 01:14:50 you can drop everything after "here" Jan 14 01:15:52 XD Jan 14 01:16:09 *me is really doing something wrong finding women* :( Jan 14 01:16:43 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> i wouldnt mind giving c++ a go. will help me learn the who compiling process. will have the time it proper one the wedding is out the way. Jan 14 01:16:55 MohammadAG: i am just installing your mediabar :) Jan 14 01:18:00 i think i might make a signature on my mails and write there as my last line "N900, produced by Nokia, powered by MohammadAG" Jan 14 01:18:09 ^^ Jan 14 01:19:29 :D Jan 14 01:19:42 mikki-kun, chatroulette, stay away from it Jan 14 01:20:46 or make a chatroulette client for the n900 Jan 14 01:21:44 All you need to do is to cut a hole in your pocket, and you can be on chatroulette 24*7 Jan 14 01:21:50 chatroulette? Jan 14 01:22:06 is there an app called that? Jan 14 01:22:10 SpeedEvil: way ahead of you Jan 14 01:22:49 MohammadAG: THE TOOLZ IZ AWEZUM! Jan 14 01:23:02 makes multitasking 100% more efficient! Jan 14 01:23:46 mikki-kun, it's a site that connects you with random people from the internet, usually they're jack... nevermind Jan 14 01:24:37 ohh, i usually don't do that :) i have my n900 to play with or my gentoo installs (one being a server) Jan 14 01:27:16 yeah, it hit a huge popularity streak last summer Jan 14 01:27:49 wasn't that omegle? Jan 14 01:27:50 from what i was told, you'll mostly find random emo teenagers and old creepy guys with far less clothing than you'd prefer Jan 14 01:28:32 eh, there are a bunch of different services that do it that go back at least as far as icq Jan 14 01:29:20 mikki-kun, if you watch south park, this pretty much sums it all up :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5W71YQ7lGE Jan 14 01:29:34 southpark ftw! Jan 14 01:29:46 then that sums it up :P Jan 14 01:31:31 lol XD Jan 14 01:32:14 lol, the punchline :D Jan 14 01:32:19 XD Jan 14 01:33:12 xD Jan 14 01:34:01 * RST38h is dangerously close to buying a Streak now Jan 14 01:34:42 RST38h: think of what MohammadAG offers you Jan 14 01:34:46 think of what Dell offers you Jan 14 01:34:52 see the difference? :) Jan 14 01:34:53 [but will wait for a few months, can't give up normal common-sense apps interaction so far] Jan 14 01:35:00 Yes, mikki-kun Jan 14 01:35:11 * MohammadAG gives RST38h cocaine Jan 14 01:35:21 XD :D LMAO Jan 14 01:36:05 RST38h, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=streak Jan 14 01:36:23 yeah RST38h, "wtf?" Jan 14 01:36:29 Ummmm Jan 14 01:37:59 urbandict FTW! Jan 14 01:38:57 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=maemo I'm surprised that exists Jan 14 01:39:32 LOL @ Fremantle's definition Jan 14 01:40:24 MohammadAG: btw, i guess the chatroulette client wouldn't work for me... Jan 14 01:40:27 hi Jan 14 01:40:40 is there an app that will let me export the calendar data in csv format? Jan 14 01:41:29 MohammadAG: more like slow but it blows Jan 14 01:41:33 MohammadAG: you just make the hippie town way more hippie :D Jan 14 01:48:28 urbandict, pfff. I'm tempted... "maemo: an animal that can't decide whether to maah or mooo" Jan 14 01:49:59 XD write it there and we have somthing for maemo :D Jan 14 01:50:23 * ieatlint just got a $70 refund due to my auto insurance rate dropping 20% :) Jan 14 01:52:00 ~maah Jan 14 01:52:08 tzz Jan 14 01:52:10 ~moo Jan 14 01:52:11 * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass Jan 14 01:52:52 MohammadAG: btw, streaming music to the n900 is pretty awesome :) Jan 14 01:53:00 ieatlint: congratz :) Jan 14 01:53:09 I use groove :) Jan 14 01:53:27 i am using ssh and mpd http-streaming :) Jan 14 01:53:41 the totally complicated but most secure way i can think of :) Jan 14 01:53:49 all i had to do was have my licence for 10 years and have just 1 ticket and 1 not-at-fault accident Jan 14 01:54:03 ieatlint: that is a pretty good static :) Jan 14 01:54:27 you can say you are a pretty good driver as not many get through one year ticketless Jan 14 01:55:05 btw, who wrote the punchline infobot posted? XD Jan 14 01:55:44 "I drove good for 10 years and all I got was this lousy $70" Jan 14 01:55:45 I wonder as wel. Been told it's a song, I gather for kids Jan 14 01:56:32 :P Jan 14 01:56:35 hmm Jan 14 01:56:37 I Am Cow by Arrogant Worms Jan 14 01:56:39 Termana: more like annual drops for the past 5 years Jan 14 01:56:55 LOL Jan 14 01:57:22 MohammadAG: i've the idea! go to chatroulette and the first thing you either say/write is maemo :D if the person answers correctly you should chat with her/him (especially if she is a hot woman :>) if not search for the next person ^^ Jan 14 01:57:24 and yeah, just one ticket, crazy bitch rear ended me... and a cop who was pissed to have to come out in the rain because she pulled over but refused to talk to me decided i must have been driving too slowly, so i got a fucking ticket for going too slow Jan 14 01:58:18 ieatlint: which country you coming from? Jan 14 01:58:34 US Jan 14 01:58:52 in at least germany if somebody hits you from the back the one driving into you is at fault Jan 14 01:59:03 ieatlint, here in Aus we can dispute tickets in court, can't you do that there as well? Jan 14 01:59:09 mikki-kun, same here Jan 14 01:59:21 MUHAHAHA http://maemo.gitorious.org/harmattan-examples Jan 14 01:59:23 mikki-kun, I'd die before finding someone Jan 14 01:59:25 yeah, it was ruled their fault, but still also goes on my record as a "not at fault accident" Jan 14 01:59:55 when you start getting a few not at fault accidents, they assume you must not be driving defensively Jan 14 02:00:58 ieatlint, can't you dispute the ticket though? or did you just not think it was worth it? Jan 14 02:01:35 i did... my word versus police officer (even though he didn't witness it); court chooses cop Jan 14 02:01:37 no surprise Jan 14 02:01:56 MohammadAG: here a link to the statics x) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatroulette last paragraph in overview :) Jan 14 02:01:59 had no witnesses, etc Jan 14 02:02:14 i think i will write that guy and ask for the source of running video/audio Jan 14 02:02:46 anyway, didn't intend to speak of my driving record quite so much... just yay me, $70 Jan 14 02:02:49 that's a lot of beer Jan 14 02:03:01 don't drive then though :) Jan 14 02:03:20 pff, this is america, we drive drunk Jan 14 02:03:21 or you won't get another 70$ after 10 years :) Jan 14 02:03:26 if bush and cheney can do it, why can't i Jan 14 02:04:19 bush can't drive without booze Jan 14 02:06:20 yeah, he would've been cooler if he weren't all sober through his presidency Jan 14 02:06:30 MohammadAG: i guess those statics can't be that bad, can they? :D Jan 14 02:06:36 that's why the beast got an assigned driver and bush sits on the backseat Jan 14 02:07:41 mikki-kun, the word you're looking for is statistics Jan 14 02:07:48 not statics Jan 14 02:07:49 :p Jan 14 02:07:59 Termana: thanks :/ Jan 14 02:08:05 well, the #1 rule to know when driving is: "They'll swerve." Jan 14 02:08:14 wow Jan 14 02:08:24 my laptop can't handle 1080p with the new nvidia drivers Jan 14 02:09:24 well, mplayer ftw, my i5 can handle it if the card can't Jan 14 02:10:29 #1 rule when driving: if you want to go thru hell, you have to drive like the devil Jan 14 02:11:03 or text/tweet/chatonIRC while driving Jan 14 02:13:10 yeah, like our troll from US that claimed driving a lorry with nitroglycerine or sth like that, while trolling here Jan 14 02:13:45 MohammadAG: your i5 can't handle 1080p what? Jan 14 02:15:03 javispedro, playing the video on the CPU (mplayer) works, using the card (gstreamer) = lots of framedrops Jan 14 02:15:17 they used to work fine with the old nvidia linux drivers Jan 14 02:15:22 how you know gstreamer uses the card? Jan 14 02:15:38 can't you try mplayer -vo vdpau or the like Jan 14 02:16:35 any aussies here? is it true you sometimes tie the steer of the car and go aft for cooking coffee or fetching another sixpack, while cruising the outback? Jan 14 02:17:39 wow, rotating desktop widgets is also cool :) Jan 14 02:17:55 mikki-kun: you know MHD? Jan 14 02:18:00 mhd? Jan 14 02:18:11 modified hildon desktop Jan 14 02:18:18 or matan's ? Jan 14 02:18:47 hm, i am using some of your modified hildon desktop files :) *pointing towards portrait status infos* Jan 14 02:18:52 i'm sure paul hogan does it Jan 14 02:19:18 but i'm wondering if you're thinking of the god's must be crazy, which had a scene like that, but was in south africa Jan 14 02:19:25 mikki-kun: http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.screenshots/joerg900.10092 Jan 14 02:20:39 Ö.Ö WOW :o Jan 14 02:21:04 so that is matan's hildon desktop? :o Jan 14 02:21:09 yep Jan 14 02:22:39 some 3 lines of details : http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Jan 14 02:23:15 heya javispedro Jan 14 02:23:23 ^F ## new: with ctrl-BS Jan 14 02:23:24 hi RST38h Jan 14 02:23:34 OMG, Android does not even have a decent build of MPlayer or VLC Jan 14 02:23:46 RST38h: abandoning the ship? Jan 14 02:24:08 i read the description of the video :) Jan 14 02:24:13 will add those lines as well :) Jan 14 02:24:30 *needs to write a proper .txt what was added* Jan 14 02:24:40 javispedro: Have been looking at Dell Streak. A 5" cell phone. Jan 14 02:24:53 javispedro: he never went on board :) Jan 14 02:25:18 javispedro: Found unlocked version.Supports the 2100MHz 3G band MTS uses. Jan 14 02:25:22 RST38h: interesting price? Jan 14 02:25:37 Handled a Galaxy Tab at Best Buy the other day. Jan 14 02:25:57 javispedro: Decent price, with discount Jan 14 02:26:12 GAN: Coworker bought a Galaxy Tab Jan 14 02:26:12 Android is so freaking gross though. Jan 14 02:26:27 Yea, have been looking at available apps.It is a fucking wasteland Jan 14 02:26:38 Could work with a tablet that size in Maemo. Jan 14 02:26:52 * RST38h has no idea what those bloggers mean when they say "thousands of apps at app store" Jan 14 02:27:12 RST38h, mplayer nor vlc are not dalvik, so do not expect decent ports ;-) Jan 14 02:27:21 Thousands of pieces junk Jan 14 02:27:54 RST38h, 1000 fart apps and 1000 sudokus and there you are - thousands of apps Jan 14 02:28:04 well, I learned long long ago that thousands of apps is not any real useful indicator Jan 14 02:28:12 see, I come from PalmOS. Jan 14 02:28:14 :) Jan 14 02:28:22 print 1; print 2;.... i can generate millions of apps :D Jan 14 02:28:31 Hehe Jan 14 02:28:34 javispedro: $399 Jan 14 02:28:47 for 16GB version (where "16GB" applies to a removable SD card) Jan 14 02:29:00 smoku: Jan 14 02:29:12 Let's hope MWC brings pretty things. Jan 14 02:29:34 mwc? Jan 14 02:29:39 mobile world convetion? Jan 14 02:29:41 Pretty? likely. Useful? well. Jan 14 02:29:44 RST38h, did I show http://codex.xiaoka.com/wiki/meego:streak ? Jan 14 02:29:46 Mobile World Conference Jan 14 02:29:49 smoku: Well, they are self-sufficient enough, so I would expect a usable port Jan 14 02:29:56 congress* Jan 14 02:29:58 err Jan 14 02:30:01 yeah congress Jan 14 02:30:09 smoku: Yea, but Meego is about as useful as Mer has been Jan 14 02:30:21 smoku: So, it is mainly of academic value =( Jan 14 02:30:49 RST38h, you cannot have a native app on android. at leas until 2.3. the core of the app has to be dalvik and with NDK you can only call functions exported from .so Jan 14 02:31:11 smoku: MPlayer will work fine like this Jan 14 02:31:28 smoku: they made native apps in 2.3? Jan 14 02:31:31 O.o Jan 14 02:31:34 smoku: You basically implement file selection dialog in Dalvik, then call mplayer.so::main() with the right args Jan 14 02:31:45 I was only aware of the JNI stuff Jan 14 02:32:04 RST38h, even SDL has problems. you need to translate all sound/video/input between native and java Jan 14 02:32:15 RST38h: you can draw from a JNI .so (via OpenGL), but sound must go back to dalvik Jan 14 02:32:31 javispedro: ^2 Jan 14 02:32:44 * javispedro still keeps that the only reasonable mobile game API ever done is the WebOS one. Jan 14 02:32:49 Can you rig OpenGL to provide you with a direct pixel bufferpointer? Jan 14 02:32:51 RST38h, no. you cannot call maplayer's main. the main loop needs to be in dalvik, otherwise the VM will kill your app Jan 14 02:32:58 at least until 2.3 Jan 14 02:33:09 smoku: Ahhahahaha Jan 14 02:33:29 2.3 changelog: "Applications that use native code can now receive and process input and sensor events directly in their native code, which dramatically improves efficiency and responsiveness. " Jan 14 02:33:30 pfft. Jan 14 02:33:30 javispedro, yes. the main 2.3 NDK change is that you can implement main loop in native code and call dalvik from. Jan 14 02:33:33 smoku: Is there a system() call analogy? Jan 14 02:33:39 someone should make a dvorak on-screen-keyboard for android so you can type faster Jan 14 02:33:46 jacekowski, they even created a native library to make it easier Jan 14 02:33:47 it'd be awesome, and useful Jan 14 02:33:51 RST38h: it'll be hilarious when every vendor shipping "MeeGo" has a completely different UI. Jan 14 02:34:02 I don 't know why they think having a shit reference platform is a good idea. Jan 14 02:34:13 2011: The year when Google reinvented native applications Jan 14 02:34:15 smoku: I see audio is also native now (opensl) Jan 14 02:34:34 javispedro, yes. finally Jan 14 02:34:34 so yes, they are clearly trying to ditch dalvik Jan 14 02:34:47 but 2.3 is a new thing not present on any device yet Jan 14 02:34:58 General: They are not. They simply have a different goal for Meego, one that you cannot accept. Jan 14 02:35:38 javispedro, they are not. they are just enabling android as a proper gaming platform. Jan 14 02:35:45 DocScrutinizer, Jan 14 02:36:03 why are meego sources in the topic? they degrade what's open source of maemo Jan 14 02:36:18 javispedro, but the core of the os is stil java variant Jan 14 02:36:51 not for long, I know this music. Jan 14 02:36:53 MohammadAG: http://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia Jan 14 02:36:57 The next step would be to allow native audio :) Jan 14 02:37:09 RST38h: read above =) Jan 14 02:37:46 The the top Android honcho will leave Google, his favorite pet project in ruins etc Jan 14 02:38:15 And Dalvik will rightly take the place of MIDP it deserves :) Jan 14 02:38:33 MohammadAG: btw, you released v0.1 on my bday :> Jan 14 02:38:40 MIDP? Jan 14 02:39:04 but still, you call a native function in a library that calls a function in VM, that calls a java layer, that calls a function in java API, that calls a system integration layer, that calls the syscall... Jan 14 02:39:18 probably don't with opengl opensles Jan 14 02:39:21 very easy and convinient :) Jan 14 02:39:25 they will just do something webos-style Jan 14 02:39:31 mikki-kun, happy birthday :) Jan 14 02:39:52 javispedro: probably true. they will add SDL to the core system. Jan 14 02:39:57 thanks :) Jan 14 02:40:00 heh Jan 14 02:40:22 not thinking SDL (I still believe there's no better game API), Jan 14 02:40:23 javispedro: which will enable light weight full screen gaes (with GLES if needed) while letting them keep the rest of the core OS crooked Jan 14 02:40:33 s/gaes/games Jan 14 02:40:44 but rather they will reinvent X11 so that they can composite games+the Java stuff Jan 14 02:40:49 at a lower level. Jan 14 02:40:50 OMG Jan 14 02:41:02 Not *another* reinvention of X11, no, fuck, noo... Jan 14 02:41:07 hualp Jan 14 02:41:14 RST38h, OpenGL/OpenVG/OpenML rather Jan 14 02:41:25 * DocScrutinizer pukes Jan 14 02:41:48 *everybody* reinvents X11 these days Jan 14 02:41:51 even meego :) Jan 14 02:41:51 smoku: Lots of games are pain to code with these APIs. Jan 14 02:42:02 javispedro: Meego?Already? Jan 14 02:42:05 and in fact neither opengl nor openvg nor openml handle input. Jan 14 02:42:11 and yes, the calls to OpenXX are shortcutted from native layer and don't have to go through dalvik Jan 14 02:42:12 WAAAH nope, not meego again Jan 14 02:42:25 RST38h: wayland Jan 14 02:42:37 javispedro: Ah, that is RedHat not Meego Jan 14 02:42:59 MohammadAG: after rebooting the newest version won't running though, errormessage as follows: "Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name proximityd.method.change was not provided by any .service files" Jan 14 02:43:00 wasteland Jan 14 02:43:11 but redhat -> fedora -> meego ;) Jan 14 02:43:21 * javispedro hides Jan 14 02:43:26 * DocScrutinizer feels sick Jan 14 02:43:37 javispedro, there has been reinventions of X11 since the begining of Linux era, ant they will be ;-) Jan 14 02:43:46 Wait, Intel hired the Wayland guy, no wonder they are sticking Wayland into Meego now. Jan 14 02:43:47 mikki-kun, grumble, start proximityd; stop mediabar; start mediabar Jan 14 02:43:53 javispedro, it's not a new thing Jan 14 02:44:00 smoku:Since before the Linux era really Jan 14 02:44:43 RST38h, yes. but before these stayed in lab at least, not blogs everywhere ;-) Jan 14 02:45:29 smoku: there weren't any blogs Jan 14 02:46:02 oh rly? Jan 14 02:46:12 there weren't blogs??? Jan 14 02:46:31 then how could the egomaniacs reinventing pulseaudio publish their impressive findings? Jan 14 02:46:31 http://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html <== pretty defensive people Jan 14 02:46:45 javis: they published RFCs Jan 14 02:46:52 javis: on Usenet. Jan 14 02:46:52 (sorry for the anachronism -- pulse ;) ) Jan 14 02:47:03 javis: and people shat all over their RFCs. Jan 14 02:47:36 MohammadAG: is there a smart way to start proximityd on every boot? Jan 14 02:47:57 mikki-kun, tbh, idk why it doesn't auto start Jan 14 02:48:09 ah now I know why Jan 14 02:48:14 how stupid of me Jan 14 02:48:26 smoku: BTW, is it right that you cannot bring up Meego desktop on Streak because there are no GLES drivers? Jan 14 02:48:37 start doesn't work as user Jan 14 02:48:37 WHAT? Imgtech strikes again! Jan 14 02:48:42 i'll fix it tomorrow Jan 14 02:48:47 ok :) Jan 14 02:48:52 btw Jan 14 02:48:55 "There Might Be An Open PowerVR Driver In Q3'11" Jan 14 02:49:00 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODk4Ng Jan 14 02:49:00 it is in /usr/sbin/ :) Jan 14 02:49:03 yea right Jan 14 02:49:20 RST38h, yes. Jan 14 02:49:28 not before Imagetech is bought by someone with common sense Jan 14 02:49:37 you could edit /etc/event.d/mediabar Jan 14 02:49:43 RST38h: you can always go noveau way Jan 14 02:49:44 does Intel have any cash left after the McAfee thing? Jan 14 02:50:11 smoku: But doesn't this mean you can still run a standard X11 server on the frame buffer and bring up *some* desktop? Like Ubuntu Unity or even Hildon Desktop? Jan 14 02:50:37 javispedro: ? Jan 14 02:50:42 javis: Don't you worry about the cash :) Jan 14 02:51:03 why does mediabar need initctl start? Jan 14 02:51:09 javis: just made up with Nvidia, by the way of cross-licensing agreement Jan 14 02:51:14 need to call* Jan 14 02:51:53 cause it starts at bootup? Jan 14 02:52:07 javispedro: no, for sure they are broke now Jan 14 02:52:11 MohammadAG: do you know of anybody tweaking the n900's front-cam? Jan 14 02:52:22 nope, SpeedEvil maybe Jan 14 02:52:26 jacekowski: so that they can buy imgtech, as it seems they also have problems with their drivers Jan 14 02:52:27 mikki-kun: it sucks and it's designed to suck Jan 14 02:52:29 me does it 5 times a day Jan 14 02:52:38 *tweak* *teak* Jan 14 02:52:56 mikki-kun: where is front on your phone Jan 14 02:53:10 mikki-kun: is it main cam or is it small cam next to lcd we are talking about Jan 14 02:53:17 jacekowski: the one which points at you when looking at the display ;) Jan 14 02:53:28 it's designed to suck Jan 14 02:53:29 jacekowski: yeah, always takes me wonder. Anyway front != main Jan 14 02:53:56 hm, is it possible to maybe replace? Jan 14 02:54:01 nope Jan 14 02:54:01 no Jan 14 02:54:09 hm, due to the motherboard? Jan 14 02:54:14 nope Jan 14 02:54:14 RST38h, both unity and hildon desktop (at least fremantle ones) need accelerated composition Jan 14 02:54:15 yep Jan 14 02:54:23 there are no alternatives Jan 14 02:54:25 i mean Jan 14 02:54:28 not mother, but daughter Jan 14 02:54:29 decide you two have to ;) Jan 14 02:54:29 it's hmm 2mm thick Jan 14 02:54:48 and you have to fit pcb, sensor and lens in 2mm Jan 14 02:54:48 2mm only?! Ö.ö Jan 14 02:54:54 holy schnikes Ö.ö Jan 14 02:54:57 RST38h, but yes - nothing stops you from running 2D desktops like LXDE or even GNOME. you can see TWM on my movie Jan 14 02:55:09 main cam has bit more space Jan 14 02:55:19 RST38h, MSM X11 driver is pretty fast Jan 14 02:55:25 i am pretty happy with the main one Jan 14 02:55:30 it looks good Jan 14 02:55:38 well, it has much better lens Jan 14 02:55:38 and is plugin replaceable by virtual better cam modules :-D Jan 14 02:55:50 and bigger sensor Jan 14 02:56:02 mikki-kun: with cameras bigger == better Jan 14 02:56:11 usually the case :) Jan 14 02:56:11 or actually replace it when broken Jan 14 02:56:21 why didn't nokia install the 5MP also to the front? :( Jan 14 02:56:24 and whatever people say, small camera can't give you good picture Jan 14 02:56:27 mikki-kun: space Jan 14 02:56:29 the front cam though, no dice Jan 14 02:56:38 mikki-kun: and costs Jan 14 02:56:50 mikki-kun: and good sensor + shitty lens == shitty picture Jan 14 02:56:50 hmm Jan 14 02:56:54 5MP on front Jan 14 02:57:07 jacekowski: you see how much the price went down? from like 600€ to under 300$! Jan 14 02:57:14 * MohammadAG would imagine posts on tmo discovering 5+5 should = 10MP Jan 14 02:57:23 LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Jan 14 02:57:27 damn, then I would swear even louder while putting stickytape on it Jan 14 02:57:38 and the dual-core phones are like 2Ghz as 1+1 = 2 Jan 14 02:57:48 2+2=5 Jan 14 02:58:01 0.4+0.4=0.3 Jan 14 02:58:05 because of overhead. Jan 14 02:58:11 LAWL :D Jan 14 02:58:20 1/0 = 0.0 Jan 14 02:58:23 because. Jan 14 02:58:31 e=mc^2 Jan 14 02:58:31 the fun comes when you get into many-core Jan 14 02:58:38 100*1Ghz = 0Ghz. Jan 14 02:58:42 black holes are where god divided by zero... or at least tried to Jan 14 02:58:53 javispedro: your math is little bit off Jan 14 02:59:05 it is actually accurate to a single digit Jan 14 02:59:49 iirc pandaboard advert says 2 * 1GHz A9 = 1.5GHz A8 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 14 02:59:58 2011