**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 24 02:59:58 2011 Jan 24 04:40:22 wmarone: not exactly correct. You don't need a huge root, if you got a sane partitioning Jan 24 04:41:29 peregrin_: wmarone: see Jan 24 04:41:34 ~optification Jan 24 04:41:34 optification is probably a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 Jan 24 04:42:47 btw same is true for /var Jan 24 04:43:23 if done right from beginning, a sane partitioning wouldn't need any kinky /opt at all Jan 24 05:04:28 yeah so i had heard. Jan 24 05:05:26 nice title Jan 24 05:06:39 im thinking /opt mount might come after /usr/lib is needed, so moving it entirely to /opt is out. maybe including a separate folder in LD path or whatev.... Jan 24 05:06:51 i never did hear of a nice, graceful solution Jan 24 05:07:20 DocScrutinizer: what would be 'right' partitioning for n900? Jan 24 05:08:30 pupnik_: is that a rhetoric question? Jan 24 05:08:44 pupnik_: an overlay on the mmc Jan 24 05:08:54 eh? Jan 24 05:09:17 i think i understand the reasons for the opt system.. Jan 24 05:09:24 just like openwrt does it, an overlay. Jan 24 05:09:44 pupnik_: I think you don't Jan 24 05:09:47 :-) Jan 24 05:10:01 required binaries to run on /, the rest on /opt. Jan 24 05:10:20 that's what FHS says, yes Jan 24 05:10:28 the claimed reason is due to onenand speed vs. eMMC speed Jan 24 05:10:39 nah Jan 24 05:10:43 right Jan 24 05:11:42 i think its that thing they didnt want to do right Jan 24 05:11:46 so i have an angstrom filesystem in 280 MB right now Jan 24 05:12:02 with gcc and my dev libs Jan 24 05:12:12 oh well, at least its debian based Jan 24 05:13:26 the whole point is they got some binaries in /usr/(s)bin that evidently had to go to /(s)bin - e.g PA Jan 24 05:13:57 instead of fixing this, they invented optification Jan 24 05:14:51 even then, 256MB is critically small Jan 24 05:15:07 the reason probably is that there's no feasible way to do a SSU to a sane partitioning, from a system that's not using eMMC at all for binaries, like PR1.0/1.1 Jan 24 05:15:09 better than 4MB Jan 24 05:16:25 wmarone: nonsense, you can have a system with a rootfs as small as 16MB, just big enough to hold the bare minimum as defined by FHS Jan 24 05:17:12 yeah, i agree. the root could be really small if they just set it up to use /opt correctly. Jan 24 05:17:16 everything else *may* go to mounted auxiliary volumes Jan 24 05:17:40 not /opt, peregrin_ . FHS and /usr and /var Jan 24 05:17:42 im almost thinking there were systems that could not handle multiple PATHs... Jan 24 05:18:19 whatev. /opt or /usr/local, its the same thing, FHS or not. Jan 24 05:18:39 FHS is codification. Jan 24 05:18:52 cofification is the writing down of *existing* law. Jan 24 05:19:14 in the same respect, fhs is the reflection of best practices. Jan 24 05:19:27 this is obviously not best. Jan 24 05:19:49 Can anyone test something for me? Anyone not using backupmenu(or willing to remove it for a test)? Jan 24 05:19:59 fhs would have been nice. best practices would have been nicer. Jan 24 05:20:21 I need someone to install bootmenu-n900 v1.9(latest in repo), and reboot with the keyboard open. Jan 24 05:21:42 bootmenu? too rich for my blood. Jan 24 05:22:45 It's just a package in extras-devel; no relation to multiboot or u-boot. Jan 24 05:45:19 well. moo. Jan 24 05:53:39 moo RST38h Jan 24 05:54:47 i smell mass brainfail Jan 24 05:54:57 it is monday morning? Jan 24 05:55:56 pretty much, unless you live two globe spins before us Jan 24 05:56:11 the most you can get is one half and a couple of hours Jan 24 05:56:38 Still Sunday in some places. Jan 24 05:56:43 i live on the mars Jan 24 05:56:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC%2B14 Jan 24 05:57:32 What US state? Jan 24 06:05:27 moo Jan 24 06:06:30 kerio: Mars will probably become a colony of India Jan 24 06:06:49 err Jan 24 06:06:52 RST38h: ^^^ Jan 24 06:08:19 was about to post, power went down :( Jan 24 06:09:52 so i downloaded wikipedia dump older version, cause no pics in the newest i could see, but it's status inactive, what do i do? Jan 24 06:11:33 i started downloading the older one by someones suggestion, that i'll be able to see the pics Jan 24 06:11:40 here Jan 24 06:12:24 exciting, it's 8.06 tarred :) Jan 24 06:13:26 8.06(G) Jan 24 06:14:31 were downloading like month already Jan 24 06:17:55 I'd like to see a wiki.maemo.org dump for download Jan 24 06:19:14 Expecting maemo.org to go the way of symbian.org? Jan 24 06:27:32 just thinking there's a whole lot of situations where you'd need the wealth of info from wiki locally available, along the rationale why web based man pages are usually nonsense Jan 24 06:29:14 DocScrutinizer, yep Jan 24 06:32:18 also compensating the lack of the ought-to-be free pdf copy of O'Reilly "maemo unleashed" that should have shipped with every N900, to complement the product with a user manual that's entitled for that name Jan 24 06:34:48 DocScrutinizer: i think we should contact maemo maintainers to release the dump, they should have backups Jan 24 06:35:07 s/O'Reilly/Addison Wessley/. Jan 24 06:35:26 that sweet ofcourse Jan 24 06:36:12 what about pics from wikipedia, why i can't see a single picture Jan 24 06:39:39 how to activate shit, it's inactive Jan 24 06:43:21 DocScrutinizer: or you need curl and shell skils do grab the dump, and put here a link, so we all can download it, just idea Jan 24 06:44:53 juk: the wiki servers are already slow and much too often down Jan 24 06:45:31 i see Jan 24 06:47:53 I'd think they could handle some rsync, but for sure no massive "spider" attack Jan 24 06:49:50 I once grabbed wiki.openmoko via wget, and while I really tried to keep out all the special pages, it still downloaded something like 10 times what's really needed Jan 24 07:28:12 haha, the trick was to disable the newest one Jan 24 07:33:16 im crying, no PICS in 2010-01-16 either! Jan 24 09:17:53 hi, i'm trying to use the rescue initrd as described on http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd Jan 24 09:17:53 I get the n900 to boot into the rescue system, but then i'm a bit lost Jan 24 09:18:25 you might also want to ask that in #meego as well Jan 24 09:18:53 psycho_oreos: thanks, i'll do that too Jan 24 09:19:30 :) Jan 24 09:20:35 the keyboard seems to be in qwerty mode, but i can't figure out how to type anything other than [a-zA-Z], especially no dashes or slashes, so i dont see how i'd go about mounting the root partition.. Jan 24 09:33:05 that's indeed annoying. Jan 24 09:34:37 bleh, need a new nas :( Jan 24 09:41:03 errr, how would I create a desktop icon (any kind) to open a particular file in Notes? Jan 24 09:43:04 more generic: how to place 'project' files on desktop and - on clicking them - open them with their associated app (the usual beaviour on very usual desktop) Jan 24 09:43:48 s/very/every/ Jan 24 09:43:49 DocScrutinizer51 meant: more generic: how to place 'project' files on desktop and - on clicking them - open them with their associated app (the usual beaviour on every usual desktop) Jan 24 09:45:31 write a wrapper script that looks up mimetype and performs the correct action? ;o Jan 24 09:46:16 :-S Jan 24 09:46:31 Actually, you can make a cusotm desktop file do this Jan 24 09:46:51 where it has execution line, type "/usr/bin/notes filename.txt" or something like this Jan 24 09:49:39 seems hd has a blind spot there Jan 24 09:51:13 hd has a lot of blind spots Jan 24 09:51:26 this one is by no means a large one Jan 24 09:51:37 hmm Jan 24 09:54:10 * RST38h sighs and goes back to watching Android device release news Jan 24 09:54:11 * MohammadAG waves Jan 24 09:54:17 Heya, Mohammad Jan 24 09:54:35 morning RST38h Jan 24 09:55:11 RST38h: N9 is coming out with Android. Jan 24 09:55:41 Speed: Nah, it will be running WinXP. Jan 24 09:55:50 pfft, Win7 Jan 24 09:55:59 and it'll be ARM Jan 24 09:56:11 running Win7 under qemu Jan 24 09:56:11 Naah - WinXP, an ARM version. Jan 24 09:56:16 Specially for nokia. Jan 24 09:56:36 Why not WinME? atleast you could shit done on that OS Jan 24 09:56:46 is the N9 the new Duke Nukem Forever? Jan 24 09:57:13 Mohammad: it is the new Amiga. Jan 24 09:57:51 hey duke nukem forever is coming out 3rd of may Jan 24 09:57:54 or was it 12th? Jan 24 09:58:03 I think I didn't exist Amiga-times Jan 24 09:58:13 OMG Jan 24 09:58:25 frals leaked the N9 release date, May 3 or May 12! Jan 24 09:58:44 Mohammad: too bad, it was ages ahead of its time Jan 24 09:58:48 the trailer is awesome for dnf ;D Jan 24 09:59:20 he's using coded talk to leak stuff, his last message means the N9 sucks :P Jan 24 09:59:39 I think we should apply thermorectal cryptoanalysis here Jan 24 10:00:38 do it Jan 24 10:00:53 * RST38h goes off to heat up the iron Jan 24 10:00:54 RST38h: try osso_notes --help; it clearly states how to use notes ;-P Jan 24 10:02:16 Doc: Freaking sh.... Jan 24 10:10:12 alterego, ping Jan 24 10:12:30 MohammadAG: about to have a shower, I'll talk to you in a few minutes. Jan 24 10:13:01 RST38h: indeed. FFS! Need to hack up some ~/.notes or gconf key, just because Nokia devels once again just did what gui designers asked for. Spank them hard for being lazy and nasty Jan 24 10:16:13 good morning everyone Jan 24 10:16:40 Venemo: Your task for today is to convince RST38h that it is a good morning. Jan 24 10:17:36 I'd be interested in that argumentation as well :-/ Jan 24 10:18:20 RST38h: this is a good morning! Jan 24 10:29:33 grrrr, .osso/osso-notes/.g_keyfile .osso/osso-notes/.permanent_state Jan 24 10:32:45 MohammadAG: pong Jan 24 10:33:24 It is indeed a good mornikng Jan 24 10:40:30 Venemo: Is it, really? Jan 24 10:43:46 RST38h: yes, it is :) Jan 24 10:43:56 RST38h: give me reasons why not! Jan 24 10:58:32 hey someone help me out here? i just got my class 10 micro sd, and the write speed is 16 mb/s in mass storage mode, but 4 mb/s when i put it into my card reader... is it genuine? Jan 24 10:59:24 that's fairly impossible to say Jan 24 10:59:24 toadpole: obviously there is an issue with the card reader Jan 24 10:59:35 to boot , class 10 is only 10 MByte/s not 16 Jan 24 11:00:09 Is the card reader USB 2.0 ? Jan 24 11:02:30 it should be.. no way to check, though.. i was just wondering, when copying to the card in mass storage mode, does it buffer the data on the phone, or copy directly? Jan 24 11:03:03 any way to benchmark sd on the n900? Jan 24 11:03:13 It should copy directly, there maybe be a small about of buffering but when transfering large files it shouldn't affect your statistics. Jan 24 11:03:49 i tried copying a 1.14 gb file, gave a constant 16 mb/s Jan 24 11:04:10 though its not very fast copying in filebox Jan 24 11:04:25 Copies on device are awful .. Jan 24 11:04:39 that's to be expected, then? Jan 24 11:05:14 The N900 is quite a good sd card reader when plugged in in mass storage, should give you good USB 2.0 speeds. Jan 24 11:05:17 iirc there's a shared bus Jan 24 11:05:22 At least, I've not had problems tbh. Jan 24 11:05:34 otoh, the internal SD card reader on my laptop is quicker. Jan 24 11:05:41 By maybe 2-3Mb/s Jan 24 11:06:02 which means copying from one point on the bus via the cpu(?) to another point mostly sucks Jan 24 11:06:17 only using the bus once is much better Jan 24 11:06:48 though i'm just wondering, class 10 would imply 10 mb/s write speed, right? how come i'm getting 16, then? Jan 24 11:07:15 toadpole: these things aren't an exact science. a class 10 card maybe perform better or worse. Jan 24 11:07:23 The quality of SD cards varies. Jan 24 11:07:58 yeah, though that much of a difference? wouldn't that be like a 7200 rpm hdd performing at 10000 rpm? Jan 24 11:08:05 news near you: Helsinki R Kioski Newsagent Robbed at Knifepoint Jan 24 11:08:23 ... welcome to HEL Jan 24 11:08:39 toadpole: I don't know, as I don't know what you're doing to benchmark this stuff :P Jan 24 11:08:53 toadpole: you might be getting megabytes confused with megabits for all I know :P Jan 24 11:09:07 http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.heise.de/software/download/h2testw/50539&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DH2testw%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG Jan 24 11:09:08 Just be happy that your card appears to be performing well at least :) Jan 24 11:09:13 that's what i'm using Jan 24 11:09:23 the main thing is, meego needs a class 6 minimum Jan 24 11:09:29 rubbish Jan 24 11:09:34 I use Class 4 with MeeGo Jan 24 11:09:38 And it works fine for me. Jan 24 11:09:45 no performance flaws, then? Jan 24 11:09:51 In fact my class 4 works better than a lot of class 6s :D Jan 24 11:10:09 At least from the benchmarks I was generating for our 1.1 images last year. Jan 24 11:10:43 toadpole: we were measuring startup times of applications (firefox in particular) and I Was getting, with my class 4, some of the best. Jan 24 11:10:52 We actually used my benchmarks for our QA afaik Jan 24 11:11:03 alterego: how much better is the eMMC? Jan 24 11:11:15 Venemo: it should be equivalent to a class 10 Jan 24 11:11:21 well, i guess i'll give it a go, then... though i just wanted to know if i got ripped off, this 16 gig cost me 49 usd Jan 24 11:11:24 alterego: sounds nice Jan 24 11:11:45 toadpole: well, it sounds like you're getting good performance from it. Jan 24 11:11:54 (At least in the N900) Jan 24 11:12:27 MeeGo app startup times are slow, so you will hopefully be better off than with a C4 card, but I think most of us that are doing MeeGo work are using C4 cards. Jan 24 11:12:38 could you possibly do me a favor and see what speed your class 4 copies at in mass storage mode? Jan 24 11:12:51 is it better to connect the n900 all the time to usb power, if i'm at the laptop and unplug, if it is full or doenst matter much? Jan 24 11:13:05 eichi: it doesn't matter much. Jan 24 11:13:23 eichi: mine is connected all the time because I'm developing and using it as a 3G modem. Jan 24 11:13:34 alterego: buy a new battery all, maybe 2 years should enaught or? Jan 24 11:13:35 I've had it almost dead on a year and not had any problems. Jan 24 11:13:50 eMMC is awesome for MeeGo Jan 24 11:14:01 Which reminds me, it's my N900s birthday next week. Jan 24 11:14:05 just partition it with gparted Jan 24 11:14:48 MohammadAG: what did you want earlier? :) Jan 24 11:15:05 MohammadAG: also, I thought you said you were going to donate last night? If you did, I've not got any indication :D Jan 24 11:16:09 eMMC write ass rage = 12MB/s Jan 24 11:16:39 alterego, I forgot :/ Jan 24 11:16:50 well, thanks guys, much appreciated! Jan 24 11:16:50 DocScrutinizer: "write ass rage"? Jan 24 11:16:53 alterego, also, pounds rejected on my card :P Jan 24 11:17:01 alterego, mass storage Jan 24 11:17:03 MohammadAG: it's okay, was just curious. Jan 24 11:17:09 drop the m and the sto Jan 24 11:17:17 = ass rage Jan 24 11:17:22 I thought DocScrutinizer was being kinky .. Jan 24 11:18:40 * DocScrutinizer wonders what makes timeless_xchat think OMAP IF MMC1 and IF MMC2 are a shared common bus Jan 24 11:19:54 is there a howto, to use n900 as modem? maybe i need this to next weeks Jan 24 11:20:04 MMC2 to eMMC even has 8 data bit, while uSD IF has 4 Jan 24 11:20:22 s/uSD/MMC1 uSD/ Jan 24 11:20:22 DocScrutinizer meant: MMC2 to eMMC even has 8 data bit, while MMC1 uSD IF has 4 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 24 11:23:42 2011 Jan 24 11:23:49 eichi: when you connect the N900 in PC suite mode, a new serial device should apear in /dev ttyACM2 Jan 24 11:23:52 and swap definitely shares eMMC bus, with MyDocs Jan 24 11:23:56 You can use that as a modem device. Jan 24 11:24:14 alterego: ah okay, means i just need a general modem software then Jan 24 11:24:22 okay, cool Jan 24 11:24:57 Yup Jan 24 11:25:03 alterego: which programm do you prefer for that? (just use wicd for all network things at the moment, never used a modem) Jan 24 11:25:05 And your operator internet settings. Jan 24 11:25:07 MohammadAG: maybe YOUR swap is on uSD Jan 24 11:25:21 yeah, on MeeGo it is Jan 24 11:25:27 eichi: I use ubuntu/gnome/network-manager works out of the box Jan 24 11:25:37 k Jan 24 11:25:42 hey MohammadAG Jan 24 11:25:43 eichi: has a little setup wizzard where you choose operator etc. Jan 24 11:25:43 oh, right, swap Jan 24 11:25:54 okay, thanks, i will try later Jan 24 11:26:02 hi Venemo Jan 24 11:26:11 MohammadAG: how're you? Jan 24 11:26:39 crying over the lack of support for a perfectly good fingerprint sensor Jan 24 11:26:42 :p Jan 24 11:26:45 DocScrutinizer can meego with n900 call and sms and does it run usable (speed i mean, bugs are okay) Jan 24 11:27:00 N900 no longer made by nokia <-- tmo's on crack today Jan 24 11:27:07 eichi: yes, yes and yes. Jan 24 11:27:19 eichi: not constantly though, power management isn't done yet. Jan 24 11:27:28 i just saw some videos on youtube, that looks very slow Jan 24 11:27:40 eichi: yeah, old videos, Jan 24 11:27:49 OMG alterego http://twitpic.com/3spp01 Jan 24 11:27:54 It runs quite well now after first boot, though again, app startup time is a little slow. Jan 24 11:27:58 fennec is quite heavy. Jan 24 11:27:58 anyway, my point was merely that some efforts to *measure* perf run afoul of a shared bus Jan 24 11:28:11 okay, then i will try a multiboot with that, if i have a microSD and exams are over Jan 24 11:28:26 MohammadAG: :D Jan 24 11:28:26 alterego: and pwer mgmt won't get mature ever Jan 24 11:28:36 DocScrutinizer51: ever the pessimist. Jan 24 11:28:46 this is freaking cool Jan 24 11:28:50 no, simple facts Jan 24 11:28:52 alterego: is megoo debian derivate? does it use qt as default? Jan 24 11:28:57 DocScrutinizer51: what facts? Jan 24 11:29:15 eichi: it's not debian no, and yes it is all based on Qt. Jan 24 11:29:16 red hat, not debian Jan 24 11:29:16 a prper PM needs to get designed into every bit of a system Jan 24 11:29:31 meego failed on this Jan 24 11:29:38 hmm, how? Jan 24 11:29:38 m'hmm Jan 24 11:29:44 hm, this is like suse with rpm packages? Jan 24 11:29:50 eichi: yes Jan 24 11:29:51 and I bet they won't nuke and start from scratch Jan 24 11:29:53 MohammadAG: " N900 no longer made by nokia " -> wut? Jan 24 11:30:05 rpm, not red hat Jan 24 11:30:11 Venemo: now its made by McDonalds ;D Jan 24 11:30:18 ergo: no proper PM on meego ever Jan 24 11:30:25 eichi: wtf? Jan 24 11:30:35 Venemo: joke Jan 24 11:30:35 DocScrutinizer51: why not? Jan 24 11:30:36 Venemo, tmo post Jan 24 11:30:36 DocScrutinizer51: I think that's a rather broad and silly statement. Jan 24 11:30:45 I can still buy nokia on nokia.co.luk Jan 24 11:30:47 Hey, anyone know where the wep/wpa(2) keys are stored for the wlan connections? Jan 24 11:30:48 n900 Jan 24 11:30:52 yeah, it's part of happy meals now Jan 24 11:30:59 Oh Jan 24 11:31:06 speedevil : availablility for purchase is a function of stock Jan 24 11:31:06 buy three happy meals, get a n900 Jan 24 11:31:07 It says 'temporarily out of stock' Jan 24 11:31:11 you need some coupon thing Jan 24 11:31:14 Oops. Jan 24 11:31:22 alterego: I'm not in a mood to argue Jan 24 11:31:22 and isn't necessarily connected to manufacturing Jan 24 11:31:25 DocScrutinizer51: with the exception of the accelerometer polling you mentioned yesterday, what other systems aren't adequate to your power management requirements? Jan 24 11:31:54 RElated to the above stock query. Jan 24 11:32:02 korhojoa: in gconf Jan 24 11:32:09 Does anyone know where to purchase replacemetnt rearbuds for rthe headset? Jan 24 11:32:13 alterego, keep in mind that MeeGo is a handwarmer at the moment :P Jan 24 11:32:15 ear Jan 24 11:32:20 till the bug on the tracker is fixed Jan 24 11:32:35 :) Jan 24 11:32:45 Depends where you put the N900, I like it down my trousers. Jan 24 11:33:37 alterego: explain to me how meego architects could fail so elementarily on sensorfw, and maybe I admit they might have done a proper job on all the other subsystems Jan 24 11:33:43 andre900: where? Jan 24 11:34:08 until then I assume equal incompetence across all meego development Jan 24 11:34:29 Oh - that's nice. Ebay has 'original WH-205's for 3.29. Jan 24 11:34:30 alterego, that sounds... weird Jan 24 11:34:33 DocScrutinizer51: I'm just saying that with the amount of people working on it your're making massive accusations that you can't actually back up. Jan 24 11:34:39 or maybe I'm too much of a perv Jan 24 11:34:49 pff Jan 24 11:35:02 DocScrutinizer51: I'm not saying you're wrong or right, but you're sort of trolling :P Jan 24 11:35:22 shouldn't meego trolling be elsewhere? Jan 24 11:35:26 :) Jan 24 11:35:33 timeless_xchat: that too ;) Jan 24 11:36:04 no, I'm just tossing over another notion on your "yet" Jan 24 11:36:20 yeah, let's switch tabs to #meego Jan 24 11:36:33 SpeedEvil: Original by Nokla ;) Jan 24 11:36:34 * timeless_xchat isn't in there atm :) Jan 24 11:37:32 /var/lib/gconf/system/osso/connectivity/IAP Jan 24 11:37:33 alterego: actually your statement "just no proper PM *yet*" was way more silly and bold than my reply Jan 24 11:37:40 DocScrutinizer51: I'm sure Stskeeps would be very interested to hear what you have to say about sensorfw/that-kernel-driver .. Jan 24 11:37:42 or something like that for keys fwiw Jan 24 11:38:00 => korhojoa Jan 24 11:38:00 alterego: he's not Jan 24 11:38:09 DocScrutinizer51: m'hmm .. Jan 24 11:38:10 heasked 'is it upstream?' Jan 24 11:38:13 (use tab completion in xterm) Jan 24 11:38:14 chx: I have serious doubts as to the authenticity. However - I'm only hoping at worst for the rubber bits - which are not hard to make Jan 24 11:38:23 CBA Jan 24 11:38:30 Great, Jan 24 11:38:45 DocScrutinizer51: no offense, but if you think they're doing it wrong and you know how to do it right, then why don't you contribute? :) Jan 24 11:38:58 not the upstream argument again, please, we had that yesterday Jan 24 11:39:03 DocScrutinizer51: what's the name of the working driver? And where can I get the source for it? Jan 24 11:39:37 DocScrutinizer51: I will happily write patches myself, (I'll accredit you for finding the bug of course) Jan 24 11:42:08 alterego : s/accredit/credit/, i think Jan 24 11:42:26 Yes, we all know I'm rubbish at English. Jan 24 11:43:45 * alterego continues making his way through the awful coffee. Jan 24 11:45:18 * MohammadAG still can't get what people see in coffee Jan 24 11:46:11 MohammadAG: I agree, tea is much better Jan 24 11:49:05 I like both :P Jan 24 11:49:34 my personal favourite is Twinnings' Earl Grey tea Jan 24 11:49:45 Oh yeah, I love Earl Grey Jan 24 11:49:55 Super tasty Jan 24 11:50:08 they have another good one, called "Lady Grey" which is even more delicious Jan 24 11:50:15 iirc, twinnings is threatening to leave England Jan 24 11:50:57 Well, it's not like we actually grow tea in england .. Jan 24 11:51:04 hehe Jan 24 11:51:32 well, you had a long tradition of growing tea bags Jan 24 11:52:04 * timeless_xchat hops off a bus and heads home (it's snowing in HEL) Jan 24 11:53:19 snowing in HEL, hah Jan 24 11:53:27 * MohammadAG adds another L Jan 24 11:53:45 MohammadAG: there's a Lordi song with that title Jan 24 11:54:53 lol Jan 24 11:56:08 MohammadAG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Snows_in_Hell Jan 24 11:57:04 I didn't know there were finnish heavy metal bands... Jan 24 11:57:27 MohammadAG: there are many Jan 24 11:57:42 MohammadAG: One even won Eurovision (the aforementioned Lordi) Jan 24 11:57:53 Jaffa: Jan 24 11:58:02 eh. Jan 24 11:58:04 right. Jan 24 11:58:12 sorry about that, tab fail. Jan 24 11:58:27 MohammadAG: their best song (imo) is "Devil is a looser" Jan 24 11:58:52 (: someone who likes to loosen it up or something? Jan 24 11:59:15 ~dict looser Jan 24 11:59:18 Dictionary 'looser' superl. {Loosest}.] [OE. loos, lous, laus, Icel. lauss; akin to OD. loos, D. los, AS. le['a]s false, deceitful, G. los, loose, Dan. & Sw. l["o]s, Goth. laus, and E. lose. [root]127. See {Lose}, and cf. {Leasing} falsehood.] 1. Unbound; untied; unsewed; not attached, fastened, fixed, or confined; as, the loose sheets of a book. [1913 Webster] Her hair, nor loose, nor tied in formal plat. --Shak. [1913 Webster] 2. Free from constraint ... Jan 24 11:59:52 DocScrutinizer51: correct. I accidentally typed one more 'o' than I should have Jan 24 12:02:43 DocScrutinizer51: thx Jan 24 12:06:20 why is it that the media player displays some embedded album arts and doesn't display some others? Jan 24 12:10:04 mmm, blt Jan 24 12:13:43 Almost lunch time, got a noice pizza for lunch ::) Jan 24 12:17:11 alterego, I can haz slice? Jan 24 12:17:16 Sure, Jan 24 12:17:21 That'll be 20 pounds Jan 24 12:17:30 * alterego chuckles. Jan 24 12:18:19 so the whole pizza's £160? Jan 24 12:18:42 No, I'm just marking up the slice I'm selling to you to make a profit :P Jan 24 12:19:00 they worked out how to send pizza over CTCP now? Jan 24 12:19:19 Isn't that what the P stands for? Jan 24 12:30:14 Someone just came up with a cool idea on tmo Jan 24 12:30:20 A paypal app Jan 24 12:30:40 It'd have to be secure, but basically it'd allow single click donations for applications that want to use this infrastructure. Jan 24 12:30:50 * alterego ponders Jan 24 12:31:04 not every one likes paypal :) Jan 24 12:31:11 psycho_oreos: so? Jan 24 12:31:17 psycho_oreos: not everyone likes the N900 Jan 24 12:31:34 alterego, I'd like that too Jan 24 12:31:41 alterego, maybe even a library Jan 24 12:31:45 It's attempting to make things a little easier for people to promote support through donations. Jan 24 12:31:58 something that can be implemented in all apps Jan 24 12:31:58 MohammadAG: it would be a library and a control panel applet that they could use to configure their account. Jan 24 12:32:15 Then your app would use the library to request a donation. Jan 24 12:32:22 yep Jan 24 12:32:54 We could even include in the configuration system a registry of apps installed that have donate facilities. Jan 24 12:33:05 So they could do it from there as well as the application about dialog or whatever. Jan 24 12:33:17 epic idea Jan 24 12:33:27 have it at my desk at 8PM Jan 24 12:33:31 Hah Jan 24 12:33:45 I'll look into it, the biggest concern is making it secure. Jan 24 12:34:24 I can't think of a way to keep the password information secure. Jan 24 12:35:13 We don't want someone to write a script that can steal peoples paypal information. Jan 24 12:35:30 DocScrutinizer51: any ideas? Jan 24 12:35:55 If there was a www widget you'd just put the paypal website inside that Jan 24 12:36:15 use the API? Jan 24 12:36:18 if any Jan 24 12:36:48 there is a www widget :P Jan 24 12:36:55 QWebKit Jan 24 12:37:06 but the point is he wants a one-click donation Jan 24 12:37:08 That's not really what I had in mind :P Jan 24 12:37:12 Exactly. Jan 24 12:37:19 that should increase donations by mistake Jan 24 12:37:29 User = ??? Jan 24 12:37:33 Dev = profit! Jan 24 12:37:44 Hahah Jan 24 12:37:48 win win! Jan 24 12:37:54 alterego: isn't this a bit greedy? Jan 24 12:38:12 Venemo: isn't what a bit greedy? It's still up to the user to donate. Jan 24 12:38:18 We're not forcing them to do anything. Jan 24 12:38:36 it's just a glorified donate button Jan 24 12:38:59 we aren't? Guess I'll have to edit it Jan 24 12:39:09 alterego: encrypt it Jan 24 12:39:09 Apparently, so some people are saying, it's currently too hard to donate. Jan 24 12:39:19 Or they don't know where the donate facility is for an app. Jan 24 12:39:24 look on the bright side Jan 24 12:39:29 you'll be beating ovi Jan 24 12:39:34 jacekowski: that's fine, but anyone with the source to this app can decrypt it Jan 24 12:39:35 payments there suck Jan 24 12:39:40 alterego: so? Jan 24 12:39:46 alterego, make the encryption closed source Jan 24 12:39:53 MohammadAG: look at me Jan 24 12:39:54 then give me the source Jan 24 12:40:00 Heh Jan 24 12:40:02 alterego: look at kwallet Jan 24 12:40:04 oh right, block all downloads Jan 24 12:40:07 in poland Jan 24 12:40:09 jacekowski: pin code? Jan 24 12:40:14 alterego: it's all in encrypted wallet Jan 24 12:40:14 That's a good idea .. Jan 24 12:40:19 alterego: that's unlocked with one password Jan 24 12:40:34 alterego: and it gives access to only some apps, asking user for permission before Jan 24 12:40:40 jacekowski: you reckon using a pin code would suffice? Jan 24 12:40:46 no Jan 24 12:40:58 unless it's a long one Jan 24 12:41:04 9^4 possibilities Jan 24 12:41:11 but 256bit rsa key can be factorised in 6 minutes Jan 24 12:41:13 windows bitlocker has a 48-digit key Jan 24 12:41:14 Good point .. Jan 24 12:41:17 err 10^4 Jan 24 12:41:30 AES256? Jan 24 12:41:37 yes Jan 24 12:41:39 6 minutes Jan 24 12:41:52 that's all you need on average hardware Jan 24 12:42:16 4 digits pin Jan 24 12:42:22 hmm, 5s on n900 Jan 24 12:42:23 or less Jan 24 12:42:45 hrm. Jan 24 12:42:45 AES256 is weak? Jan 24 12:42:50 I thought it takes ages to decrypt Jan 24 12:43:00 why not GPG? lol Jan 24 12:43:11 RSA Jan 24 12:43:32 ehh rsa Jan 24 12:43:35 not aes Jan 24 12:43:50 psycho_oreos: ekhm you obviously have no idea what is it Jan 24 12:44:19 jacekowski, little, its the use of PK Jan 24 12:44:49 it's just all popular ciphers packaged into one pretty package Jan 24 12:45:18 I mean the RSA heh Jan 24 12:45:23 s/mean/meant/ Jan 24 12:45:23 psycho_oreos meant: I meant the RSA heh Jan 24 12:45:43 rsa is weak Jan 24 12:45:58 with smaller keys Jan 24 12:46:06 and omap has hardware acceleration for aes Jan 24 12:46:23 jacekowski: have you ported kwallet then? Jan 24 12:46:23 yeah but that's not available in stock kernel no? :) Jan 24 12:46:45 what's this buzz about a semi-pad running meego? Jan 24 12:46:48 alterego: i'm just giving an example Jan 24 12:46:52 alterego: gnome has alternative Jan 24 12:46:59 but on maemo i would implement it differently Jan 24 12:47:24 ideally - using hardware protection builtin into omap Jan 24 12:47:29 jacekowski: well you're good with this kind of thing, what would you recommend, we need to keep it simple Jan 24 12:47:48 but that's not going to happen without docs Jan 24 12:48:16 I'm not against an encrypted keyring thing like in gnome Jan 24 12:48:34 it's similiar thing to kwallet Jan 24 12:48:43 just implemented slightly differently Jan 24 12:48:53 Even if it requires a user to enter in a password upon every donation/session. Jan 24 12:49:26 well, question is, do we want to protect user against theft of device and then leaked password Jan 24 12:49:39 or what Jan 24 12:49:41 yes Jan 24 12:49:52 how would password be leaked? Jan 24 12:50:01 well, if it's stored on device Jan 24 12:50:08 and somebody steals it Jan 24 12:50:11 and it's unencrypted Jan 24 12:50:34 then you have another option of password leaking - malicious app Jan 24 12:50:41 well the user is an idiot if they're storing their keyring password on device. Jan 24 12:51:17 ideally what would it be is daemon running as separate user Jan 24 12:51:17 alterego: Sorry no, they user is an idiot, period. ;-) Jan 24 12:51:47 jacekowski: I was thinking a dbus service Jan 24 12:51:54 yeah that would do Jan 24 12:51:59 but dbus can be sniffed Jan 24 12:52:03 which isn't nice Jan 24 12:52:18 sure, passwords would be hashed from client to server in dbus calls Jan 24 12:52:40 but on security side of it Jan 24 12:52:48 client requests password from server Jan 24 12:53:58 server then verifies if md5 of program requesting password matches stored md5 Jan 24 12:54:04 or some other has Jan 24 12:54:09 maybe sha1 Jan 24 12:54:27 if it matches and no debugger is attached to it Jan 24 12:54:31 just passes password Jan 24 12:54:52 otherwise it would warn user Jan 24 12:55:15 of course - first time after boot it would have to ask for password Jan 24 12:56:02 and then possibly password would expire after couple minutes Jan 24 12:56:11 so user would have to enter it again Jan 24 12:56:26 Yeah Jan 24 12:57:46 but you would really need check if app hasn't changed Jan 24 12:57:57 so password is only sent to app that stored it Jan 24 12:58:14 and then it could be used pretty much system wide for any password Jan 24 12:58:37 I was thinking no pass sending: app requests donation, keyring handles validation and submission Jan 24 12:59:19 So the requesting app dbus would be: donate://paypal/?ammount=10usd Jan 24 13:00:48 then the service would say, sure you want to donate x to app? enter pass, then the service talks to paypal with auth details and opens reciept in browser context. Jan 24 13:04:38 well, that could be done in another demon Jan 24 13:04:58 Exactly, it would all be done in our "donation/keyring" daemon Jan 24 13:05:29 The app just requests the donation. The user says yes, enters keyring unlock password after the daemon prompts for authorisation. Jan 24 13:05:33 keyring daemon could have pluggin support Jan 24 13:05:44 jacekowski: yes, we'll make it nice and modular :) Jan 24 13:06:06 shame that maemo security is so messed up Jan 24 13:06:13 What security? Jan 24 13:06:14 and you have so much shit running as root Jan 24 13:06:18 * alterego chuckles. Jan 24 13:06:33 remember to mlock all your memory Jan 24 13:06:38 so it's not swapped Jan 24 13:06:44 m'kay Jan 24 13:07:31 Is there anything good for collaboration for software projects? I'd like us to brain storm this information somewhere other than IRC :) Jan 24 13:08:03 * Robot101 is pretty sure some kind of keyring daemon already exists which could be used here... :P Jan 24 13:08:08 like, four of them at least Jan 24 13:08:24 alterego: http://www.ietherpad.com/ ? Jan 24 13:08:35 gnome has one, kde has one, there's a freedesktop project iirc, and meego also has a SSO framework and accounts library which is on gitorious too Jan 24 13:09:36 alterego: But I'd also suggest following on in maemo-developers on the old thread about putting donate button support into packages (ostensibly for use by maemo.org/downloads/, but could also be used by modified HAM/Fapman/appdownloader/...) Jan 24 13:20:12 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12253228 Jan 24 13:21:54 assuming it's in Qt, it can easily be plugged into fapman Jan 24 13:21:56 alterego: yeah - someone linked on another chanel. Jan 24 13:21:59 we need some XSBC-Donation-URL in debian/control though Jan 24 13:22:03 alterego: Can we say sponsored? Jan 24 13:22:13 MohammadAG: That's what my proposal was :-p Jan 24 13:22:15 Heh Jan 24 13:22:42 MohammadAG http://gitorious.org/mediabar/mediabar/blobs/master/src/maemo5deviceevents.cpp is ProximityD required for this DBus connection? Jan 24 13:22:56 Are microSD cards with capacity higher than 16GB also supported for N900? Jan 24 13:23:09 alterego: MohammadAG: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-January/023980.html Jan 24 13:23:13 trx, that's for the screen, not the proximity Jan 24 13:23:13 OkropNick: they should work. Jan 24 13:23:15 OkropNick: yes, as I understand it. Jan 24 13:23:27 any SDHC one works Jan 24 13:23:35 thx alterego, SpeedEvil Jan 24 13:23:41 MohammadAG oh, i need the proximity :/ Jan 24 13:23:47 MohammadAG: But it's SDXC Jan 24 13:24:16 32GBs is SDHC afaik Jan 24 13:24:24 hmm Jan 24 13:24:35 trx, MainWindow.cpp, it doesn't need a class on its own Jan 24 13:24:40 err Jan 24 13:24:43 Widget.cpp Jan 24 13:24:59 Wow, that's the worse spamming I've seen on tmo .. Jan 24 13:28:34 MohammadAG yep, ty Jan 24 14:19:22 meh, I sugest you study how pgp and kwallet are working. E.G you MUST NOT transmit any PIN pr passphrase over dbus Jan 24 14:19:25 ~2119 Jan 24 14:19:25 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Jan 24 14:20:52 for maemo where everybody and his braindead dog can gain root priv, there's simply NO way to implement such a thing in any semi sane way Jan 24 14:21:42 It's not so much about being root though is it. Jan 24 14:21:50 no matter what you do, it won't take me longer than a day to implement a malware that automatically donates repeatedly to my account Jan 24 14:25:08 DocScrutinizer: Indeed; anything on Maemo has to just be a proxy to PayPal (say)'s "donate" page. Jan 24 14:25:23 Hrm Jan 24 14:26:14 actually even then you can place a MITM proxy on N900 easily Jan 24 14:27:26 paypal has no TAN concept Jan 24 14:27:35 Yes, I know you're right, but does that mean we shouldn't do this? Jan 24 14:27:43 alterego: please comment on this one: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=927376#post927376 Jan 24 14:27:53 so it's immanently vulnerable Jan 24 14:28:50 alterego, there's no reason you shouldn't do it Jan 24 14:29:15 there's nothing you can do about paypal, but you'll lose your face in developer guilde if you even support exploiting that paypal vulnerability Jan 24 14:29:45 just have proper checks in place Jan 24 14:29:51 pff Jan 24 14:30:13 you don't get it, do you, eventually? Jan 24 14:30:18 achipa: ping Jan 24 14:30:28 Venemo: pong Jan 24 14:30:43 Venemo: done Jan 24 14:31:14 achipa: since you are an insider, could you please say something about http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=927376#post927376 ? Jan 24 14:32:38 ~flashing Jan 24 14:32:39 rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 24 14:34:23 Venemo, i understand the frustration, but its got to be a difficult thing Jan 24 14:34:32 lcuk: no, it isn't Jan 24 14:34:47 lcuk: the SDK release a year ago could do this "difficult thing", until they broke it. Jan 24 14:35:11 Any idea if there is a dbus-scripts package for Ubuntu/Debian, ... Jan 24 14:35:30 lcuk: also it doesn't do this for any other targets. eg. it doesn't package my desktop apps when I run them. so. yes, it is very annoying Jan 24 14:36:03 Venemo: there is a gap between things happening, so that you get these cases that are obviously non-optimal Jan 24 14:36:35 now, if we waited for the various teams to resolve this, sync, etc, that would be the final release Jan 24 14:36:35 achipa: that I can understand if this was some new feature request. however this time they simply broke something that worked very well. Jan 24 14:37:02 Venemo, qt-creator must also know where to move not just the binary, but all support files too? Jan 24 14:37:12 ie it might work for copying just binary sometimes Jan 24 14:37:28 the "deploy" and "run" options are separate in every other IDE. Jan 24 14:37:39 the thing is the whole build-deploy-publish is getting changed, and publish is a piece of a missing puzzle ATM Jan 24 14:37:48 Visual Studio solves this difficult thing by being able to specify the necessary support files. Jan 24 14:38:30 achipa: if you have the necessary privileges on the Qt JIRA, could you please at least reopen the bug I linked? Jan 24 14:38:33 Venemo, what if one of the support files requires registering rather than just copying? Jan 24 14:38:38 like needing to update sudoers or something Jan 24 14:39:02 lcuk: the config dialog in VS has an option for that too Jan 24 14:39:09 Venemo: I have no superpowers on Qt bugs, so I can only +1 you Jan 24 14:39:19 achipa: can you contact someone who has? Jan 24 14:40:10 I'm not sure it would make things better or worse :) in terms that I already have a few bugs on the topic that were declared invalid/out of scope Jan 24 14:40:23 ie it might work for copying just binary sometimes Jan 24 14:40:30 there was an option to copy files over Jan 24 14:40:42 achipa: I also don't get why there is a separate Qt Creator version for MeeGo. this is a bloody mess Jan 24 14:40:50 but rest assured the topic is not closed and (surprise) a good DX something we actually push for :) Jan 24 14:41:26 Venemo: that's mostly timing, as long as there are no devices out there, it would only be dead weight for the integration process Jan 24 14:41:42 (i.e. it would only slow down the 'live' symbian/maemo releases) Jan 24 14:42:04 achipa: yes, you pushed for good DX for a year now, but it actually didn't get any better. :( Jan 24 14:42:20 achipa: sorry, I know it is not you personally who is responsible for this Jan 24 14:42:26 achipa: so sorry for the bashing Jan 24 14:42:36 achipa: but there is noone around with whom we can talk about this Jan 24 14:42:40 achipa, devices will be out eventually Jan 24 14:42:55 ... or not? :) Jan 24 14:43:08 MohammadAG: the N900 is already out, so what? Jan 24 14:43:15 np, I understand it can get frustrating occasionally (you should hear my assorted anyazas ;) ) Jan 24 14:43:21 MeeGo devices Jan 24 14:43:27 achipa: :) Jan 24 14:43:46 achipa: can you point me to the last nightly release which didn't have this feature broken yet? Jan 24 14:44:09 MohammadAG: yeah, but that's wasn't the point of this release Jan 24 14:44:26 MohammadAG: N900 is a MeeGo device if you install MeeGo Jan 24 14:44:32 http://i.imgur.com/STT6c.jpg - jpg is shitty and xfce4 is standart but i like that wallpapper Jan 24 14:44:42 paper* Jan 24 14:44:51 Venemo, it's not a consumer's MeeGo device Jan 24 14:45:05 no full support Jan 24 14:45:19 MohammadAG: not yet Jan 24 14:45:36 Venemo: no idea really, sorry :( Jan 24 14:45:36 even when maemo is official n900 Os it's not supported by Nokia as it should be, you expect them to support meego on it? Jan 24 14:45:54 who cares about nokia support? Jan 24 14:45:55 Venemo: though I do plan on 'silently' releasing my build on gitorious Jan 24 14:46:13 achipa: what are the highlights of your build? :) Jan 24 14:46:13 it's no longer silent :P Jan 24 14:46:29 which has that and a few 'developer confusing' options Jan 24 14:46:45 that? Jan 24 14:46:46 ZogG, MohammadAG: I do not expect any more support for MeeGo than what I get on IRC for Fedora. which I can get on #meego Jan 24 14:47:08 I didn't mention support Jan 24 14:47:15 deploy wo. dpkg, create deb without device, that sort of stuff Jan 24 14:47:16 understand the planet..... http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/1181/chalmers_johnson_empire_of_bases Jan 24 14:47:17 MeeGo isn't usable unless you have a second device Jan 24 14:47:25 Venemo do not compare desctop os and embedded os Jan 24 14:47:26 achipa: eagerly awaiting it Jan 24 14:47:28 MohammadAG: yet. Jan 24 14:47:36 indeed Jan 24 14:47:51 MohammadAG: not much is missing afaics Jan 24 14:48:08 also, 'undeploy' package, insta-flash device Jan 24 14:48:10 if meegos Ui would be multitouch based? Jan 24 14:48:22 Venemo, comparing Maemo 5 to MeeGo, a lot is missing Jan 24 14:48:29 in n900 you even need driver for battery Jan 24 14:48:30 (all stuff that you can do from console, but is annoying) Jan 24 14:48:47 as well as any hardware bugs support of closed drivers Jan 24 14:48:47 ZogG: it'll support both multitouch and single-touch. and yes, BME is there along with other stuff. Jan 24 14:48:54 on a laptop you need a driver for the battery Jan 24 14:48:58 that's what ACPI's for Jan 24 14:49:01 nah, this is indeed OT here :) Jan 24 14:49:13 MohammadAG not really driver but managment Jan 24 14:49:23 achipa: do you have an ETA on your version? :P Jan 24 14:49:25 bme isn't a driver Jan 24 14:49:36 no it isn't. point is: it's working Jan 24 14:49:38 it's userspace Jan 24 14:51:19 anyway i think support on embedded device is mucgh different Jan 24 14:51:28 as you have to adopt OS for device Jan 24 14:51:38 point is, it's not working Jan 24 14:51:49 on other hand on desctop you just config hardware for OS Jan 24 14:52:00 you're just happy to not usually notice that Jan 24 14:52:06 and hadrware support is not that OS releated but linux releated Jan 24 14:52:11 * RST38h yawns Jan 24 14:52:21 * ZogG slaps RST38h Jan 24 14:52:31 Another terrorist act, an airport, 31+130 Jan 24 14:52:55 DocScrutinizer: hm, Sts said it's working. Jan 24 14:53:15 RST38h second one? Jan 24 14:53:17 WTF Jan 24 14:53:26 one side it's bad Jan 24 14:53:42 Venemo: depends on the release cycle of the 'real' sdk, as I obviously can't publish stuff that is not public yet Jan 24 14:53:54 he's also just happy to not usually notice that Jan 24 14:54:03 on other as it happens all over the world no world would support extreme organizations and countries Jan 24 14:54:15 achipa: I thought it is being developed openly Jan 24 14:54:28 DocScrutinizer: mhm :( Jan 24 14:54:46 ZogG: First one today Jan 24 14:54:47 Venemo: qtcreator is, but I touch on stuff that is on the danger list (as said, flasher, the rootstrap, etc) Jan 24 14:55:17 RST38h i heard about first one 20 people got hurt as far as news sites saying Jan 24 14:55:21 Venemo: mhm! Jan 24 14:55:58 bme has severe bugs, that just don't blow up into your face immediately and every day Jan 24 14:56:57 ZogG: It is up to 31+130 now Jan 24 14:57:38 ZogG: + many hundreds more from rectal probing at the airport entrance in the upcoming months. Jan 24 14:57:54 This is how we let them win. Jan 24 14:58:02 achipa: I would suffice with the fix for this bug. Jan 24 14:58:15 It's not about the bombings, it's about the economic damage we do to ourselves afterwards. Jan 24 14:58:16 and honestly when stskeeps says "it works" then, well... He doesn't even have the *parameters* to evaluate and verify bme against Jan 24 14:58:31 lol Jan 24 14:58:48 Venemo i had bug that when i connect device to wall charger and it's empty it stops charging after 3 sec just notifing "charging is stopped" Jan 24 14:59:04 * MohammadAG points to Stskeeps's uboot-pr13, the source of which contains binaries Jan 24 14:59:23 * MohammadAG points to his uboot-power, a proper package with proper sources Jan 24 14:59:26 GAN900 no, it's about politics and extremests Jan 24 14:59:32 so all anybody can say is "it seems to do roughly what I expected, in usual non-niche conditions" Jan 24 14:59:44 hey MohammadAG Jan 24 14:59:49 you live in israel right? Jan 24 14:59:52 or was that someone else Jan 24 14:59:53 yep Jan 24 15:00:03 GAN900 if someone doesn't use any rules - the proper way is do the same! Jan 24 15:00:03 whereabouts? Jan 24 15:00:06 there's ZogG too Jan 24 15:00:11 Matan Jan 24 15:00:12 Jerusalem Jan 24 15:00:19 i'm Tel-Aviv Jan 24 15:00:25 though I'm leaving on the 27th to Jordan, holidays Jan 24 15:00:27 frals, you comming here? Jan 24 15:00:30 ZogG, lucky Jan 24 15:00:33 ZogG, it's economic warfare at its core. Jan 24 15:00:38 might be Jan 24 15:00:50 GAN900: Go tell that to the head of DHS :) Jan 24 15:00:54 cool! Jan 24 15:01:01 send me an MMS if you do Jan 24 15:01:08 ^_^ Jan 24 15:01:08 lol Jan 24 15:01:19 frals for how long. my appartment is cold and shitty but i can provide place to stay for a wekk i think with no problem Jan 24 15:01:23 GAN900: Especially considering that his career depends on "implementing effective measures against terorrist threats to our homeland" :) Jan 24 15:01:27 RST38h, exactly the problem. Jan 24 15:01:32 RFC 9876: trout_over_mms Jan 24 15:01:52 ZogG: thanks but i dunno where im going yet :D Jan 24 15:01:58 Everytime we add new security measures and cavity search another foreigner, the terrorists win. Jan 24 15:01:59 GAN900 you are right, when you talk about people behind it, that don't really care about fanatic stuff Jan 24 15:02:01 lcuk: It will rot at the MMSC, AFAIK =) Jan 24 15:02:14 frals, keep in mind, it's warmer than Finland :p Jan 24 15:02:30 frals, what's the timeframe? Jan 24 15:02:32 frals i'm in tel-aviv(near actually) as well i may get discount in hotel as my friend work there Jan 24 15:02:39 checking the list of vaccins that i should get before going :p Jan 24 15:02:56 MohammadAG: soon(tm) ;) Jan 24 15:03:21 frals anyway you can count on me if you need help and beer talk if you want =) Jan 24 15:03:25 lmfao Jan 24 15:03:39 MohammadAG is useless he doesn't drink =) Jan 24 15:03:50 ill let you guys know when i know more Jan 24 15:03:56 MohammadAG: you don't drink? Jan 24 15:04:04 may I ask about the purpose of the visit? :P Jan 24 15:04:05 hes not allowed! Jan 24 15:04:10 I mean, Finland > Israel Jan 24 15:04:17 At least you guys have snow Jan 24 15:04:26 Venemo, not officially - oops Jan 24 15:04:29 its not for pleasure thats for sure :D Jan 24 15:04:34 MohammadAG: yes, and you have sunshine which I would pick over snow :P Jan 24 15:04:47 no offense towards israel but i like where i am ;) Jan 24 15:04:51 I'd pick snow over this weather anytime Jan 24 15:05:05 frals, no offense taken, it sucks anyway Jan 24 15:05:05 MohammadAG: what's the weather? Jan 24 15:05:06 xP Jan 24 15:05:19 Venemo, I haven't seen rain in quite a while Jan 24 15:05:27 it's 15 or something outside Jan 24 15:05:32 come to manchester Jan 24 15:05:40 it's cold in morning and hot at day =( Jan 24 15:05:42 * lcuk emails you a bucket load of rain Jan 24 15:05:47 mhmm Jan 24 15:05:51 I was in germany in 09 (or was it 08...) Jan 24 15:05:58 lcuk, i like your accent Jan 24 15:06:01 well that's still better than the -1°C here Jan 24 15:06:03 it lacked some wifi Jan 24 15:06:07 but it was awesome Jan 24 15:06:09 hahaha Jan 24 15:06:13 MohammadAG, germany sucks Jan 24 15:06:13 -1C is awesome Jan 24 15:06:20 donkey balls Jan 24 15:06:29 if you wan't to go to a german speaking country austria is the way to go ;) Jan 24 15:06:30 merlin1991, see? as much as it sucks it beats israel Jan 24 15:06:31 * RST38h doesn't drink either, it is the path of the weak ones =) Jan 24 15:07:01 RST38h, it's also friday nights path Jan 24 15:07:04 * GAN900 seems to only drink at Maemo events. Jan 24 15:07:05 RST38h you think you are better than me? =) Jan 24 15:07:15 ZogG: Of course! =) Jan 24 15:07:17 MohammadAG, at least it's not depressing. Jan 24 15:07:21 * ZogG drinks everytime there si beer Jan 24 15:07:32 RST38h =( Jan 24 15:07:41 Any place gets depressing after a while, I guess Jan 24 15:07:59 take tmo as an example... Jan 24 15:08:02 That is why we have got terrorist acts! To liven things up! Jan 24 15:08:03 * MohammadAG hides Jan 24 15:08:13 GAN900, ha, true that Jan 24 15:08:15 RST38h: wait wait! where you're from? and you tel me you dont drink? Jan 24 15:08:27 he's russian Jan 24 15:08:29 Doc: That is part of the reason why I do not. Jan 24 15:08:33 and he doesn't believe in Vodka Jan 24 15:08:40 MohammadAG: hehe Jan 24 15:08:47 I thought you get arrested in Russia if you refuse to drink :-P Jan 24 15:09:07 In soviet russia, drinks refuse you Jan 24 15:09:14 Doc: Ironically, there is very few things for which you get arrested in Russia Jan 24 15:09:16 hehehe Jan 24 15:10:28 Openfree has quit (Remote host closed the connection) // no fuiture for opensource Jan 24 15:10:29 I guess the fact that DHL doesn't deliver to private addr is somewhat related :-P Jan 24 15:10:33 they are cutting us out Jan 24 15:12:28 ZogG, the day open source dies is the day freenode gives you a Connection Refused Jan 24 15:12:32 RST38h: ooh, now I get it. Of course the only thing you get arrested for in Russia is to have too little or way to much money Jan 24 15:12:46 too much* Jan 24 15:13:03 Doc: close but not exactly Jan 24 15:13:22 way too much has to come hand in hand with badmouthing Putin to get dangerous Jan 24 15:13:22 Doc: You generally get arrested for NOT SHARING the wealth you have got with intertested parties :) Jan 24 15:13:44 gonna take a snap Jan 24 15:13:49 And yes, badmouthing the government in certian public spaces has never been healthy Jan 24 15:14:00 RST38h: so you are saying that if i don't share wealth ( like games, music and other copyrighted content ) i will go to prison? Jan 24 15:14:26 jacekowski: that is not wealth, that is rubbish Jan 24 15:16:46 jacekowski: in Russia even 1kg of caviar is considered rubish Jan 24 15:17:05 jacekowski: real wealth in Russia is starting at 10^9 Jan 24 15:18:18 I bet there's a saying in Russia upper class that goes like "if you can survive the money you own getting thrown on you, then you're a poor man" Jan 24 15:19:24 umm.. how do i reset my password on maemo.org? Jan 24 15:19:40 it would be too easy if they had a reset link on the login page Jan 24 15:20:02 they don't? Jan 24 15:20:07 no Jan 24 15:20:12 o.O Jan 24 15:21:02 which m.o? tmo, gmo, bmo? Jan 24 15:22:51 http://maemo.org/ Jan 24 15:23:35 if you write wrong u/p in top right corner fields, it just directs to login page with no reset link Jan 24 15:24:10 https://garage.maemo.org/account/login.php -> "forgot your password" Jan 24 15:24:44 hmm Jan 24 15:24:53 roflmao, Nokia Care people are awesome. I asked how to return the device for repair through the seller, when the seller is Nokia (they have like no details on their website for that). The reply was essentially "Yes you can" (my summary) :P Jan 24 15:25:03 gee, I was hoping for an envelope or something Jan 24 15:25:09 alterego, how do I detect that one has switched window Jan 24 15:25:16 i.e I moved to a stacked window Jan 24 15:25:51 ShadowJK: yeah, nice Jan 24 15:26:05 DocScrutinizer: thanks.. that worked Jan 24 15:26:32 Not that it matters, since I already /paid/ a local Nokia retailer to ship my device to Nokia Jan 24 15:26:45 eeew Jan 24 15:27:43 ShadowJK: you should have ultimatively asked Nokia for a RMA :-D Jan 24 15:29:06 It's funny, when that retailer was a Nokia Care point / service center (they had L1/L2 afaik), I got no receipt or anything Jan 24 15:29:19 manufs can't answer "yes you can" to a RMA request Jan 24 15:29:32 ShadowJK: It is no longer funny, nor is it unusual =( Jan 24 15:29:38 this time when they're no longer a care point they actually behaved alot more professionally and gave me a receipt Jan 24 15:30:04 ShadowJK: Got Nokia 5228 before NY. Worked for 2 days, then powered down and never came back up. Jan 24 15:31:09 ShadowJK: Fixing it has been fun too, with the Nokia Care authorized dealer not being able to find the order by name (they kept entering First+Last names, refused to search by partila name) Jan 24 15:31:19 partial Jan 24 15:31:42 I see alot of people with that 5228 thing, or things that look just like it Jan 24 15:31:46 On the other hand, if you need a chip source of N900 styluses or 5800 wristbands, they have got those =) Jan 24 15:32:46 ShadowJK: Coworker's GalaxyS has done a similar thing right out of the box though: it powered up but refused to find the network. So, Nokia is not alone Jan 24 15:33:33 well, obviously situation in China is getting worse, regarding QA Jan 24 15:33:48 Like BBC's tech journalist says in his podcasts, "It's not what gadgets do when they work that sets one manufacturer apart from another, it's what happens when they break" Jan 24 15:34:26 He was actually referring to how replacing his android device was something like 3 taps to restore his data, which had been automatically backed up in the cloud up until the point first device broke, but whatever :P Jan 24 15:34:26 Doc: Or they have cut costs a little bit too much Jan 24 15:34:53 ShadowJK, handing your life over to google is fun. Jan 24 15:35:04 yeah that too :) Jan 24 15:35:21 BTW, 5800's display has not survived a winter. The repairman said this happens a lot Jan 24 15:35:24 btw, who was it who claimed N900 didn't go down in price? I yesterday found new N900 at Amazon for roughly 1/2 of what I paid Jan 24 15:35:42 It's going down on Nokia store now too Jan 24 15:36:11 It's nearly discontinued. Jan 24 15:36:27 yeah *SOB* Jan 24 15:36:28 I'm kinda sad I missed Booklet 3g's end of sale. Apparently it was half price for a few days :-( Jan 24 15:37:01 Oh yeah? Jan 24 15:37:14 * nze` is wondering what meego actually gets developed for.. Jan 24 15:37:16 Kinda a nice piece of hardware. Jan 24 15:37:22 nze`, nothing. Jan 24 15:37:46 It's all a smokescreen for Nokia's furious efforts to port Android to, and relaunch, the N97. Jan 24 15:37:48 Wait, who has n900 styluses? Jan 24 15:37:49 GAN900: like, Because They Can :) Jan 24 15:38:03 I thought it's called remove680? Jan 24 15:38:17 GAN900, it's memory starved Jan 24 15:38:22 chx: "a lot" of shops Jan 24 15:38:30 for 700 you'd want more than 1gig of ram... :/ Jan 24 15:38:45 a lot better than the N810, i see Jan 24 15:38:51 getting a stylus for taht was a major PITA Jan 24 15:38:53 ShadowJK, not user-upgradable? Jan 24 15:39:01 No, you need soldering iron Jan 24 15:39:20 Ah, too bad. Jan 24 15:41:58 * alterego does a few bug fixes Jan 24 15:45:21 finally got rid of that annoying bug where the fullscreen button is positioned in the wrong place at startup. Jan 24 15:46:55 * lardman is curious about the Nokia DAB headphones with a USB plug Jan 24 15:49:48 "if you don't know how to do what you want to do, then you don't know what you want to do" Jan 24 15:50:40 lol, rapidshare claims that SSL uses so much more CPU power, that they have to bill you 2x the bandwidth usage for a given file. Jan 24 15:51:27 didnt a Google engineer blogged that SSL no more eats CPU , these days? Jan 24 15:51:30 almost Jan 24 15:51:35 he did Jan 24 15:53:12 We're currently switching from SIP to SIPS on the server, all HTTP to HTTPS, and PKI encryption for our in-house protocol, and we're seeing a .4% increase of CPU load due to SIPS, 1.2% increase due to HTTPS, and 4% increase due to PKI-signing our own protocol. Jan 24 15:55:09 I suspect this is just a sign that everything else has grown less efficient ;D Jan 24 15:57:07 or simply that CPUs have reached cruising speeds that make SSL trivial? Jan 24 15:57:53 hm, you have a point there sort of. SSL all fits in cache, but massively dynamic websites don't. Jan 24 15:58:01 They probably don't fit in ram these days Jan 24 15:58:33 SSL fits in cache? What do you mean by that? Jan 24 15:59:33 The SSL algorithm Jan 24 15:59:33 width CPU word, SIMD, and higher level micro instruction help too Jan 24 16:00:07 o.O 4% for SIPS ? WTF! Jan 24 16:00:07 I mean that php/java/ruby/whatever + mysqldb is much bigger than a CPU's cache, so to actually generate the webpage takes huge amounts of time, whereas passing the tiny result through SSL fits inside CPU cache? Jan 24 16:00:54 what are you doing over SIPS? share files? Jan 24 16:02:36 DocScrutinizer: 0.4% Jan 24 16:03:05 I'd guess that the average SIP VoIP call has 0.1% SIP(S) and 99.9% RTP Jan 24 16:03:25 ooh Jan 24 16:03:54 ~trout crashanddie Jan 24 16:03:54 * infobot slaps crashanddie around a bit with a large trout! Jan 24 16:04:38 DocScrutinizer, definitely Jan 24 16:04:55 DocScrutinizer, though, we have servers that handle pure SIP, and lay off the RTP/conferencing to other servers Jan 24 16:05:10 fair enough Jan 24 16:05:28 I never asked Jan 24 16:05:29 and those servers handle amounts such as 8-20k connections simultaneously, to give an idea of the accuracy of the .4% Jan 24 16:05:35 wasn't thinking server, sorry Jan 24 16:05:40 is the SIP company you work for for consumers? Jan 24 16:05:47 MohammadAG, no, businesses only Jan 24 16:05:56 ah Jan 24 16:06:19 well, we'd do a consumer if you need 2000 people calling you on the same phone line :P Jan 24 16:07:12 you do consumers? Jan 24 16:07:13 God, my gf is gonna be mad, lost an ebay bid. Jan 24 16:07:15 * MohammadAG giggles Jan 24 16:07:20 heh, so you at very least could get me my lifetime free vanity number ;-D Jan 24 16:08:46 00700-DocScrutinizer Jan 24 16:09:00 * crashanddie cackles as he sees the overclocking fatality :D Jan 24 16:09:49 I'm just a dev, I don't control actual production config Jan 24 16:09:58 the 'sad' thing is Nokia will repair it Jan 24 16:12:55 crashanddie: so maybe we will see instructions of OC gurus eventually how to kill the device 2 weeks prior to warranty expire date, to get a fresh one :-o Jan 24 16:13:26 maybe even a MyNewN900 app Jan 24 16:14:26 Hahah Jan 24 16:14:52 fsckng OC idiots Jan 24 16:16:22 well, better they kill their OC'd devices with MyNewN900 than to sell them to me. I feel no sorry for Nokia, as they never bothered to shout "NO OC!!" in 280pt Jan 24 16:17:09 didn't one of them do that at a maemo summit? Jan 24 16:17:21 There were a few Nokia guys saying OC'ing is bad. Jan 24 16:17:26 Dunno how big 72pt becomes once you use a projector to put it on a whiteboard :P Jan 24 16:17:27 iirc Jan 24 16:17:30 he not shouted, he gave an advice for devels Jan 24 16:17:36 Heh Jan 24 16:17:40 Yeah, suppose you're right. Jan 24 16:17:59 There should just be a death switch inside the N900 that kills the device if OC'd. Jan 24 16:18:02 Yes, Igor quite clearly said to not leave the device at its top clock speed Jan 24 16:18:04 Users would pay attention to that. Jan 24 16:20:57 alterego: When I was consulting Nokia on that project, I always recommended they not only silently collect serial # of OC'd devices via HAM and repo-server plugin, but also make HAM pop up that 72pt "YOU OC'd, WARRANTY VOID" notifier. No idea why they scratched that Jan 24 16:21:18 Heh Jan 24 16:21:51 Too much effort obviously .. Jan 24 16:22:17 Would they have paid the dev that implemented it more than the (currently 1 "confirmed") device that is being replaced. Jan 24 16:22:39 nah, the OC detection is implemented in HAM - guess why it's so incredibly lame Jan 24 16:22:54 Well, there's fapman too. Jan 24 16:23:06 It's not hard to get around a ham Jan 24 16:23:19 s/a// Jan 24 16:23:19 alterego meant: It's not hrd to get around a ham Jan 24 16:23:27 nyurgh Jan 24 16:23:40 * DocScrutinizer cackles Jan 24 16:24:18 Inever get around a ham, as soon as there's any in vicinity ;-) Jan 24 16:24:30 :) Jan 24 16:24:47 * alterego considers waypoint ETA calculation Jan 24 16:24:57 to next ham? Jan 24 16:25:01 Yes Jan 24 16:25:11 cooool Jan 24 16:26:01 I hope you're using the great circle path around the first ham Jan 24 16:26:13 assuming it's a big one Jan 24 16:26:14 :) Jan 24 16:29:12 * alterego tries to remember how to calculate the point of intersection between two lines Jan 24 16:29:28 I do like geometry. Jan 24 16:29:47 alterego: you're not serious, are you? Jan 24 16:29:58 About what? Jan 24 16:30:14 Liking geometry or trying to remember something? Jan 24 16:31:57 alterego: simple Jan 24 16:32:05 about how to calculate x,y for (x0a,y0a)+(xa,xa*gradient-a)=(x0b,y0b)+(xb,xb*gradient-b) Jan 24 16:32:07 Not even sure it's the best way to do what I'm doing. Jan 24 16:32:41 alterego: y=x; y=x/2 Jan 24 16:32:44 for example Jan 24 16:32:48 I've got my viewport (trackview, map, whatever) and I want an edge indicator when the destination waypoint is outside of that viewport. Jan 24 16:32:56 hmm Jan 24 16:32:58 no Jan 24 16:33:05 i don't remember that as well Jan 24 16:33:54 So I need the point where the hyp. crosses the top line. Jan 24 16:34:17 Well, the vector toward the destination waypoint. Jan 24 16:34:27 (0,0)+(x,x)=(?,?)+(x,x*0.5) Jan 24 16:34:29 how many dimensions is this? Jan 24 16:34:36 2 only? Jan 24 16:34:43 jacekowski: your values missing origin of second line Jan 24 16:34:43 Yes Jan 24 16:34:57 lardman: yes, just 2D Jan 24 16:35:43 so yeah intersection is where the two are equal Jan 24 16:35:48 but how are your lines represented Jan 24 16:35:49 ? Jan 24 16:35:59 there are no lines :P Jan 24 16:36:04 They're hypothetical lines. Jan 24 16:36:14 I have the coordinate of the target waypoint. Jan 24 16:36:22 I have my origin which is the center of the viewport. Jan 24 16:36:22 my interest is more for 3D viewport wanting to know whether to render icons if they would be visible Jan 24 16:36:29 And I know the viewports dimensions. Jan 24 16:37:30 can't you just subtract the x and y parts of the two coordinates from one another and see if they are > 1/2 the width/height of the viewport? Jan 24 16:38:06 No Jan 24 16:38:08 :) Jan 24 16:38:35 why not? Jan 24 16:38:53 I need the position to plot my marker at the edge of the viewport. Jan 24 16:39:12 oh I see Jan 24 16:39:57 tbh, I also need to detect if the waypoint is outside of the viewport. Jan 24 16:40:14 I think I might change things slightly so I'm working with a square viewport. Jan 24 16:40:38 wtf am I talking about, that's not going to work either. Jan 24 16:43:37 Right, figured it out :) Jan 24 16:48:11 generate equations of line between two points, substitute in the values for the lines at the perimeter, see whether the resultant is larger than the view window? Jan 24 16:49:54 No, that's not very efficient :P Jan 24 16:50:35 well it's not too bad, as the edges only need a single value for each Jan 24 16:51:09 though you should check that the distance in x and y directions is > edge distance before doing the intersection check Jan 24 16:51:56 Yes Jan 24 16:52:27 what's the status on SSU repo? is it up yet? Jan 24 17:06:24 crashanddie: ping Jan 24 17:06:29 pong Jan 24 17:06:43 crashanddie: did you ever use N900 with Freeswitch? Jan 24 17:06:58 the one you provided me with? Jan 24 17:07:48 crashanddie: dont remember whether you actually tested against my server or not :) Jan 24 17:08:03 yeah Jan 24 17:08:05 crashanddie: but had something to show you Jan 24 17:08:59 crashanddie: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388#c39 Jan 24 17:09:01 Bug 10388: Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? Jan 24 17:09:31 crashanddie: listen to the wav file in the comment. N900 skips all the digit prompts of Freeswitch Jan 24 17:10:58 crashanddie: it is a call to the Voicemail in Freeswitch Jan 24 17:12:01 interesting Jan 24 17:12:07 that seems to be a bug in the RTP handling Jan 24 17:12:23 we had the same bug in our SIP server Jan 24 17:12:52 well, I know of a few bug instances where this can happen Jan 24 17:12:52 crashanddie: you think it is a fault in FS and not an issue with N900? Jan 24 17:13:11 A/ server is sending RTP packets with poorly incremented identifiers Jan 24 17:13:36 crashanddie: empathy/twinkle/ekiga handle the voicemail fine. Jan 24 17:13:50 B/ server is sending RTP packets too quickly after first wav stopped, the N900 receives the RTP too quickly, and drops it Jan 24 17:14:10 normally, the client should be able to handle this scenario, as the RTP sequencing is quite clear, but it requires a bit of buffering algorithms Jan 24 17:14:52 crashanddie: so is there any workaround in the server side or client side? Jan 24 17:15:14 where n900 writes dns servers ? Jan 24 17:15:42 well, it's hard to analyse unless you have proper logging about what's happening Jan 24 17:15:55 we should try to know whether the N900 is dropping packets or not Jan 24 17:16:46 crashanddie: i see. so a tcpdump on N900 is required? Jan 24 17:17:00 TCPdump won't help Jan 24 17:17:07 we need to see the internal handling Jan 24 17:18:03 crashanddie: internal handling of the N900 gstreamer client? Jan 24 17:18:12 for example, yeah Jan 24 17:18:22 crashanddie: is that something you could look into? Jan 24 17:18:28 basically, add debug information to know if it drops packets, or why it doesn't play them Jan 24 17:18:39 whether it's sequential issues, or timing issues Jan 24 17:18:54 though, it's weird that it's only on those digits Jan 24 17:19:12 can you check if there is any codec switching during the communication/ Jan 24 17:19:13 ? Jan 24 17:19:33 crashanddie: i dropped the move from asterisk to freeswitch due to this issue Jan 24 17:19:35 It could be that freeswitch is switching to other encodings for those digits, encodings the N900 can't handle Jan 24 17:20:06 crashanddie: there was nothing obvious in the freeswitch log. Jan 24 17:20:14 and the source .wav files? Jan 24 17:20:23 or .gsm, or whatever you have Jan 24 17:20:26 are they all the same? Jan 24 17:20:35 crashanddie: hmm. let me check that. Jan 24 17:20:43 especially between "Press" and "digit" Jan 24 17:21:30 crashanddie: 0.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 16000 Hz Jan 24 17:22:07 crashanddie: vm-press.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 16000 Hz Jan 24 17:22:22 crashanddie: they look the same Jan 24 17:22:33 yup# Jan 24 17:22:57 crashanddie: what pbx server are you running at your end? Jan 24 17:23:03 our own Jan 24 17:23:12 you could use VoipMonitor or PJSIP to try and see what's what Jan 24 17:23:31 VoipMonitor needs to run on the same host as the freeswitch server, PJSIP can be run as any client Jan 24 17:23:36 crashanddie: i do have a pjsipclient running remotely as well. Jan 24 17:23:57 you don't notice any weird SIP signals flying through? Jan 24 17:24:01 crashanddie: i use it to test my N900. it basically reads out an ebook Jan 24 17:24:40 crashanddie: What state of N900 PSM do you use with pbx? Jan 24 17:24:53 I don't use my N900 for SIP Jan 24 17:25:07 anyone knows how to make use of notification led for missed calendar events? Jan 24 17:25:24 crashanddie: crap. Jan 24 17:26:32 trumee, but in my own tests, PSM didn't change much to the poor quality of SIP calls Jan 24 17:27:03 crashanddie: right. so you have experienced poor SIP calls on N900? Jan 24 17:27:13 oh yeah, definitely Jan 24 17:27:28 it's one of the reasons I'm using a crappy softphone through wine on my laptop rather than the n900 Jan 24 17:27:53 crashanddie: ah. i hope Collabora guys are listening to this. Jan 24 17:28:02 * crashanddie pokes lcuk ^ Jan 24 17:28:57 lolz, cnn website has a survey on it's homepage asking which android tablet offers more "possibilities on the go" Jan 24 17:29:06 then lists dell, lg, samsung, apple, and blackberry Jan 24 17:29:39 nidO, I'd be willing to bet that people who go to cnn.com think "android" means smartphone. Jan 24 17:29:52 crashanddie: Olivier Crete (ocrete) didnt succeed in resolving this. Jan 24 17:30:42 crashanddie: seems, N900 wasnt tested very well with sip. Jan 24 17:30:56 crashanddie: sadly, seeing apple with 22% of the votes and blackberry with 11%, i'd be inclined to agree Jan 24 17:31:11 especially as 30% also chose "dont know" Jan 24 17:34:11 DocScrutinizer: did you get your dlink router? Jan 24 17:35:11 Well. Moo. Jan 24 17:35:28 shalom Jan 24 17:38:10 aleihem. Jan 24 17:39:08 crashanddie, trumee - so whats new on the testing front? have you guys come up with verifiable test cases to show any issue? Jan 24 17:39:27 place a call, lol :D Jan 24 17:39:47 lcuk: ocrete has taken tcpdumps from my system Jan 24 17:40:07 lcuk: and i uploaded some files on bug 10388 too Jan 24 17:40:09 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? Jan 24 17:40:56 this bug has been there for a while Jan 24 17:41:12 may have something to do with the clock skew,although I amnot an expert Jan 24 17:41:20 lcuk: but what is Collabora doing about that bug, i dont know. Nobody has bothered to let us know Jan 24 17:41:58 RST38h: yes, that bug has been sitting there for a while. Jan 24 17:43:32 lcuk, crashanddie, RST38h: people have been randomly trying all permutations of OCing, modifying pulse and what not at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54039 Jan 24 17:44:37 How often can packets be read/sent with PSM? Jan 24 17:45:17 crashanddie: PSM is supposed to turn off when sip call starts? Jan 24 17:45:36 if it's any less than 50Hz, then you're going to have bad quality through SIP calls Jan 24 17:48:05 crashanddie: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10050 Jan 24 17:48:06 Bug 10050: high latency with SIP client Jan 24 17:48:15 trumee, what is your talk. username? Jan 24 17:48:24 lcuk: rajil.s Jan 24 17:48:51 ok, so on the 15th of this month you posted about having some new files Jan 24 17:48:59 did you report back to Olivier about them? Jan 24 17:49:07 or on the bug yourself? Jan 24 17:49:26 ie, perhaps the onus is now on you since he offered up some components to try Jan 24 17:49:45 lcuk: i had those files since last october Jan 24 17:50:07 lcuk: and i have been regularly hanging out in #farsight Jan 24 17:50:29 .nod. Jan 24 17:50:51 lcuk: last discussion i had with ocrete was two weeks ago Jan 24 17:51:28 according to the bug, last comment was december Jan 24 17:51:51 lcuk: yes, i posted that last comment Jan 24 17:52:15 lcuk: but nobody from Nokia (Mikhail) or Collabora has updated that bug report Jan 24 17:52:56 lcuk: i dont know who could help now. Jan 24 17:53:35 lcuk: The usual answer i get from ocrete (although he has been quite helpful) is that it works in 'empathy' so should work in N900 Jan 24 17:54:17 lcuk: he has carried out testing against my own server with N900 and the results have been quite bad Jan 24 17:56:19 lcuk: is there anything you could do to help? Jan 24 18:01:09 i've just booted my n900 into meego 1.1 on my microsd card. how can i access the maemo rootfs? Jan 24 18:01:38 nze`, #meego Jan 24 18:03:17 what's the device the rootfs resides on called in maemo? Jan 24 18:03:24 Hi Jan 24 18:07:02 trumee, I don't see specifically what I can do, I am not on the SIP team. I do recall from previous conversations that some people happily reported things working well and people on different servers had different experiences Jan 24 18:07:11 /dev/mtd5 Jan 24 18:08:46 lcuk: perhaps you can nudge the people in the SIP team. Is there anybody other than ocrete who will be responsible to rectify this bug? Jan 24 18:09:39 bug reports are the best place to contact related maintainers. Jan 24 18:09:51 since your conversation seems to be out of band Jan 24 18:10:00 its not quite the easiest thing to do Jan 24 18:10:37 lcuk: "since your conversation seems to be out of band" ? Jan 24 18:11:01 trumee, you said you contacted him a couple of weeks ago - but I see nothing on the bug about it Jan 24 18:11:16 what was said, what was tried etc Jan 24 18:11:52 or was that middle of december Jan 24 18:12:46 lcuk: yes Jan 24 18:14:51 lcuk: do you think it will be a good idea to post those binaries on the bugzilla? Jan 24 18:15:27 trumee, I don't know what they are for, so no. Jan 24 18:15:58 i have to go anyway, raise it on the bug report where all the related parties see it. Jan 24 18:16:19 lcuk: raise what? Jan 24 18:21:22 crashanddie: dead end! Jan 24 18:23:32 * MohammadAG looks for a lyrics C++ API Jan 24 18:33:18 MohammadAG: I tried to find a lyrics library once too, and found nothing for C at the time. I needed something for N810. Jan 24 18:34:19 MohammadAG: So I made this: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/liblyrics/ but it does not work anymore and not maintained, unfortunately. Jan 24 18:34:43 hmm Jan 24 18:35:58 I was planning things for N900, but TuneWiki applet was good enough for me, so liblyrics was kind of left behind. Jan 24 18:38:25 Eldar thread on Talk is gold. Jan 24 18:40:55 Have you weighed in yet? Jan 24 18:41:00 I'm staying well away from that one :D Jan 24 18:41:08 alterego, not worth it Jan 24 18:41:14 :) Jan 24 18:41:17 I will when a thread is mostly rational Jan 24 18:41:27 On tmo? :) Jan 24 18:41:31 But when it's filled with insanity, well. Jan 24 18:41:35 Yeah Jan 24 18:41:48 = NEVAR Jan 24 18:42:05 damn, forgot the !!!11! Jan 24 19:03:53 hi Jan 24 19:10:18 hello Jan 24 19:18:00 Pauly: hi Jan 24 19:18:14 hey Jan 24 19:18:44 nokia sans font is awesome looking Jan 24 19:19:33 Pauly: I agree :) Jan 24 19:22:03 i deleted most of other fonts in the /usr/share/fonts dir and now all the text in micro b is nokia sans! Jan 24 19:27:49 Pauly: what happens if you open pages with accented characters and other special unicode characters? Jan 24 19:29:31 shit happens Jan 24 19:30:38 idk Jan 24 19:30:45 :P Jan 24 19:30:52 its okay this looks to pretty Jan 24 19:31:06 any test page Jan 24 19:31:08 ? Jan 24 19:32:12 post screenshot Jan 24 19:33:51 what page should i take screenshot of? Jan 24 19:38:21 Pauly: I think mece meant screenshot of any page you have. As for me, atm I can't think of any page for you to test Jan 24 19:38:59 http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2887/screenshot2011012414354.png Jan 24 19:40:17 the fuck is that Jan 24 19:40:45 it is truly nice Pauly :) Jan 24 19:40:56 are you really using a web client for irc on your n900? D: Jan 24 19:41:20 "...At his peak in 1990, the toad controlled more than $10bn in financial instruments, making its owner the worlds largest individual stock investor..." Jan 24 19:41:45 RST38h, good to know... Jan 24 19:44:00 hmm Jan 24 19:44:23 did anyone ever find a way to unchoke the device when a call comes in? Jan 24 19:46:04 i OC:d.. helped me. Jan 24 19:46:53 atleast the choke is less than before Jan 24 19:50:07 hi Jan 24 19:50:33 hi Jan 24 19:56:43 RST38h: all glory to the hypnotoad Jan 24 20:00:54 Doc: yes, it was surely getting around in the booming Japan Jan 24 20:00:57 i have a good good toad app Jan 24 20:01:03 almost working Jan 24 20:01:17 pupnik: will trade for 3 brain slugs, slightly used. Jan 24 20:01:19 r33b.net Jan 24 20:03:26 unfortunately bad loop in the sample playback Jan 24 20:03:41 that's really a sound that calls for a soft-synth Jan 24 20:04:10 hola florian ... did you work on fbmenu? Jan 24 20:05:16 re Jan 24 20:05:19 hi pupnik Jan 24 20:05:26 pupnik: no Jan 24 20:05:39 ah ok Jan 24 20:07:32 hmm, out of popcorn Jan 24 20:07:42 * MohammadAG gets doritos and reads N9/Eldar thread Jan 24 20:08:17 a slightly improved N900 would be just fine, really Jan 24 20:10:19 MohammadAG: mmmmm, doritos, preferably with metled cheese and guacamole Jan 24 20:15:44 oh nice, another thread Jan 24 20:16:51 why don't they take it all to meego.com Jan 24 20:16:57 it's the right place for such things Jan 24 20:19:22 i should send the homestar runner guys a real 486 laptop Jan 24 20:22:42 grr Jan 24 20:23:01 hey why is there so many people in this channel Jan 24 20:23:34 but not many is chatting Jan 24 20:24:03 hello! are there problems, trying some themes? i dont wont to break desktop only for trying some themes. otherwise i will use the default one Jan 24 20:28:42 chem|st, any chance we can get this closed http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68880 ? Jan 24 20:28:56 or merged with the other BS Jan 24 20:29:30 eichi: do a websearhc for the theme on talk.maemo.org to see if it causes problems Jan 24 20:30:48 pupnik: the D-theme themes looks stable on first look Jan 24 20:52:56 mohammadag: microb isnt as fast as it should be i think it cause of my router any tips for getting fast connection Jan 24 20:55:25 hey Jan 24 20:55:57 does anyone know if mobile hotspot starts a DHCP server? Jan 24 20:58:00 Hi, any idea whether this func works correctly: osso_hw_set_event_cb(m_ossocontext, &hw_state, onHwEvent, &myvar); basically I would like to read: hw_state->system_inactivity_ind to see if the app got suspended (or display went off) but it gets called only at app startup ( with the field set to 0), after that even after the display goes off, the function does not get called. any idea ? N900 PR1.3 Jan 24 21:05:24 nvm, apparently it has one Jan 24 21:09:03 ToJa92-ubuntu: it uses dnsmasq's built-in dhcp server Jan 24 21:11:42 ok. is there any way to view incoming requests to it? (or wlan in general) Jan 24 21:12:18 ToJa92-ubuntu: there's always tcpdump Jan 24 21:13:50 Teehee http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_meego_tablet_image_and_specs_surface_we_hold_our_breath-news-2248.php Jan 24 21:13:54 you could also start dnsmasq by hand and use --no-daemon --log-dhcp + the other options Jan 24 21:16:03 has anyone in the FOSS community done anything for samsung's bada? Jan 24 21:16:09 or with.. Jan 24 21:16:32 MrBawb: thanks Jan 24 21:17:47 "It is estimated that the Mongol leader's invasions unintentionally scrubbed almost 700 million tons of carbon from the atmosphere." Jan 24 21:18:03 pupnik: See? It is good for the environment! Jan 24 21:19:09 hah Jan 24 21:19:27 Exterminating humans usually is. Jan 24 21:20:10 now if someone could prove that CO2 were bad for the environment... but that's another topic Jan 24 21:24:40 Scale, scale, scale Jan 24 21:28:42 "The [Tandy] Model Is radiated so much RFI that many games were designed so that an AM radio next to the computer could be used to provide sounds" baaahahahah Jan 24 21:29:37 haha Jan 24 21:33:16 pupnik: pretty usual for that time Jan 24 21:34:10 nice tandy model 4 on ebay right now Jan 24 21:34:39 what machine did Linus use to build/test linux on initially? Jan 24 21:34:57 and does it still happily work on it? Jan 24 21:35:18 i doubt it Jan 24 21:35:28 probably linux 2.6 is bigger than that computer's HD Jan 24 21:35:33 let alone the ram Jan 24 21:35:36 does someone know application that allows to put all applications shortcuts to some kind of categories in N900? Jan 24 21:35:46 catorise, but I've never used it Jan 24 21:36:59 lcuk: elks might work on it Jan 24 21:37:14 on what? Jan 24 21:37:21 lcuk: Linus's first machine Jan 24 21:37:29 yes, what was it? Jan 24 21:37:37 Has anyone gotten AnyRemote or Irreco, etc. working for a simple WLAN remote, eg for a media box? (I.e., some big arrow key and enter and maybe volume buttons controlling a pc that one has SSHed or VNCed or even telnetted to?) Jan 24 21:37:49 lcuk: had to be somewhere in the 286 range, I don't actually know Jan 24 21:38:25 oh, 386 Jan 24 21:40:07 kasansweat: thank you for hint Jan 24 21:41:18 kasansweat: you're looking to use Irreco with wlan? Jan 24 21:41:54 Sure, or whichever one works? I saw that qtirreco was IR only? Not sure about Irreco or other alternatives Jan 24 21:42:25 kasansweat: There's bluemaemo, that pretends to be a bluetooth keyboard Jan 24 21:43:33 I don't know of anything that uses VNC or synergy and presents a remote-control interface Jan 24 21:43:50 so bluemaemo does do "buttons on the screen?" Jan 24 21:44:04 it has some pre-made profiles Jan 24 21:44:20 but it must be bluetooth? Jan 24 21:44:22 yeah Jan 24 21:45:09 pong Jan 24 21:45:15 seems silly to limit it to just that, but hey, beggars can't be choosers (unless they're coders) Jan 24 21:45:40 yeah, it should be possible to do what you want. It's just, nobody's written it that I know of Jan 24 21:45:47 MohammadAG: what is the second thread Jan 24 21:45:51 kasansweat, bluemaemo is bluetooth HID wrapper Jan 24 21:46:00 making it not do bluetooth is kinda feature creep :P Jan 24 21:46:03 hehe yeah -- I thought AnyRemote might have been it too -- but I think it takes some fudging Jan 24 21:46:20 chem|st, nevermind, it already grew to a big thread Jan 24 21:46:39 ah ok Jan 24 21:46:43 Making it do WLAN seems painfully obvious -- the N900 is WLAN enabled, and the other PC is likely to be as well Jan 24 21:52:13 bluetooth hid is a good standard to work on, there's no tcp/ip hid spec afaik :) Jan 24 21:52:36 alterego: there's always http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ Jan 24 21:53:20 Well, at least hid is built into most things by default :P Jan 24 21:53:26 yup Jan 24 21:53:56 It's a pity the xbox doesn't have bluetooth Jan 24 21:54:01 stupid rf crap Jan 24 21:54:11 Or ir .. Jan 24 21:54:52 But it means I can't use the N900 as a bluetooth hid keyboard for the xbox, like their messenger pad thing Jan 24 21:55:07 Which is something I'd really like Jan 24 21:57:44 alterego, it's a pity the PS3 doesn't have IR :p Jan 24 21:58:44 The PS3 has good bluetooth hid support though Jan 24 21:58:48 oh yay, some arabic news channel started a wikileaks of its own Jan 24 21:59:15 If I had a PS3 I'd write a ps3-media-remote and keyboard app Jan 24 21:59:32 * MohammadAG sends alterego his PS3 Jan 24 21:59:35 I trust it'll be back Jan 24 21:59:37 :D Jan 24 21:59:50 You might get a controller back :P Jan 24 22:00:05 hey javispedro Jan 24 22:00:46 I won't send a controller Jan 24 22:01:04 Hah, Jan 24 22:01:13 I'll need to code to get it working then :P Jan 24 22:01:50 morning Jan 24 22:03:58 does someone know where can I change CPU speed limits in N900? I don't want to overclock, I'd rather to underclock during idle time Jan 24 22:05:45 isnt that already what it does? Jan 24 22:05:58 yes, it does underclock as much as possible when idle Jan 24 22:06:01 the device already does exactly that Jan 24 22:06:17 It also works just like normal Linux. Jan 24 22:06:20 See /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ Jan 24 22:06:20 yes, but I want limits 125 ~ 600 MHz rather than 250 ~ 600 MHz Jan 24 22:06:28 125 is highly unstable Jan 24 22:06:32 you need the power kernel then Jan 24 22:06:32 reduces battery life and such Jan 24 22:06:39 and 125 will almost certainly cause problems Jan 24 22:06:42 ok, so I don't want it... Jan 24 22:08:23 OkropNick, no you don't. ;) Jan 24 22:08:38 :) Jan 24 22:09:16 OkropNick, reading up on the term "Race to Idle" may be instructive as well. Jan 24 22:09:33 any idea why: osso_hw_set_event_cb(m_pOssoContext, &hw_state, onHwEvent, &myvar); triggers my callback onHwEvent() only when the app starts ? when the display goes off or the device is inactive for some time the callback is not called. is this a bug in maemo ? Jan 24 22:09:34 What is this obsession with OCing and UCing :) Jan 24 22:09:49 GAN900: I'll check it, thx Jan 24 22:09:52 people want it to be faster or have more battery life Jan 24 22:09:56 alterego, rice it up, baby. Jan 24 22:10:02 Heh Jan 24 22:10:16 more battery: get bigger battery Jan 24 22:10:24 the bigger issue is ram though, or so knowledgeable people here insist Jan 24 22:10:24 bbl Jan 24 22:10:32 I hear if you put a park bench on the boot it'll go faster. Jan 24 22:10:59 GAN900: just use paper mache Jan 24 22:11:44 it's what i used, and thanks to the excellent drag created by this horribly large wing on the back of the car, i'm not only even more of a douche, but i've reduced my fuel efficiency Jan 24 22:11:46 it's awesome Jan 24 22:12:46 Yes, but now you can't burn rubber in third. Jan 24 22:12:48 Lame. Jan 24 22:12:54 alterego, remind me which bigger battery works well with the N900? Jan 24 22:12:59 I got my 4th battery today Jan 24 22:13:05 i drive a honda civic, it took a lot of effort to burn rubber in third anyway Jan 24 22:13:35 Hehe Jan 24 22:13:41 I know the feeling. Jan 24 22:14:32 Friend of mine has an E36 M3 he tuned up. Keeps the spoiler off because he can't burn rubber in 3rd with it on. Jan 24 22:15:27 i drive a low end manual... i got it for ease of repair, and to freak people out on hills Jan 24 22:15:45 it accomplishes both Jan 24 22:16:06 * javispedro doesn't drive, he crashes things instead Jan 24 22:16:14 when I run my app which loads my dll on phone i dont get qDebug()s on terminal Jan 24 22:18:02 is there something on my device i have to enable to get qDebug() on terminal? Jan 24 22:18:18 < CasperN> whin i connected my usb cup warmer to the panora, it started to sound wierd Jan 24 22:18:30 * MohammadAG wants to start driving Jan 24 22:19:10 makulkar: if your app is a libmeegotouch one, you might need to run it with "-output-level debug" as a command line argument Jan 24 22:20:45 javispedro, yes it loads libmeegotouch. does it like creates a debug as file or prints msgs on terminal? Jan 24 22:21:12 usually prints on terminal Jan 24 22:21:29 there is also a -log-console param which you might need to add Jan 24 22:21:43 mikhas, javispedro, nope, giving "$> appname -output-level debug" still doesnt give anything Jan 24 22:21:58 try -output-level debug -log-console then Jan 24 22:22:43 mikhas, "$> appname -output-level debug -log-console" still the same Jan 24 22:23:11 mikhas, running as user btw, does it make any difference? Jan 24 22:23:19 no, shouldnt Jan 24 22:33:59 mikhas, looks like qml apps suppress logs. Normal qt app shows qDebugs Jan 24 22:35:06 you said you were using libmeegotouch apps Jan 24 22:38:29 alterego, portrait keyboard foss'd : Jan 24 22:38:37 ) Jan 24 22:39:11 makulkar, have you tried using warnings instead of debug? Jan 24 22:39:28 might be some overaggressive error handler filtering ... Jan 24 22:40:16 mikhas, warnings nope doesnt work Jan 24 22:41:06 * mikhas is out of ideas Jan 24 22:43:14 do libosso functions like osso_hw_set_event_cb need that the g_main_loop is running with g_main_loop_run() ? Jan 24 22:48:08 makulkar: invoke app with -output-level debug Jan 24 22:48:49 alterego, did that. No difference Jan 24 22:49:05 $>appname -output-level debug Jan 24 22:49:16 alterego, ^^ is this what you mean? Jan 24 22:49:41 yes Jan 24 22:49:46 Interesting Jan 24 22:50:09 What is the app? Is it a Qt executable? Jan 24 22:50:33 alterego, yes. but its qml based Jan 24 22:50:46 alterego, when I run normal qt app, without any option, i see logs Jan 24 22:51:26 Oh, so it's an app that loads a qml file? Jan 24 22:51:37 its called declarative app.. yes Jan 24 22:52:13 Hrm, not sure then, you're probably better off asking in #meego with your odd platform :P Jan 24 22:53:11 alterego, hehe.. alright Jan 24 23:58:41 any hints as to why my application's icon isn't being picked up by the launcher? it's in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/ and /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/hildon/; it's spelled correctly in my application's .desktop file; if i change the Icon= line in the .desktop file to 'hermes', that icon is picked up. I've cargo-culted running `gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor` in postinst (from Hermes): no dice. is there something non-obvious Jan 24 23:59:13 tried restarting? :P Jan 24 23:59:37 i tried that before, but let's try it again ;-) Jan 24 23:59:51 wjt: ask marcoil? :) Jan 25 00:00:12 haha Jan 25 00:03:59 buh. well. restarting helped. which is not really good news :D Jan 25 00:04:39 hildon-desktop is crazy like that Jan 25 00:05:36 yeah, but this is unsatisfactory because I don't know what I did right :D Jan 25 00:06:08 heh Jan 25 00:06:39 wjt, this bug has been cycled around Maemo for a long time. The Fremantle AF team attempted numerous fixes and every time a new kitten popped out of a hole. congratulations on your new kitten :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_udqEp_YR4 Jan 25 00:07:48 wjt: I think the current workaround is to run "touch /usr/share/icons/hicolor" after installing a new icon Jan 25 00:08:20 or reboot, of course Jan 25 00:09:36 well. let's tidy up all the stuff i've been poking at and feed this package to the autobuilder and come back to this another day :) Jan 25 00:09:51 one Fosdem schedule coming up! Jan 25 00:10:53 \o/ Jan 25 00:12:35 hmm anyone can help a bit with some python stuff? :/ Jan 25 00:12:50 want to put in a python script the following: Jan 25 00:14:09 MrBawb, franz_, lcuk, Robot101: cheers :) Jan 25 00:14:10 lcuk, would've been more fun if those kittens weren't real o_O Jan 25 00:14:36 MohammadAG, pssh Jan 25 00:14:53 gconftool -s -t bool /system/osso/dsm/locks/devicelock_autolock_enabled false Jan 25 00:14:58 lcuk, what? the way I'd be playing that would be animal cruelty Jan 25 00:15:07 but I see there is already a gconf module inside the python script Jan 25 00:15:13 so I was trying this: Jan 25 00:15:30 c = gconf.client_get_default() Jan 25 00:15:48 no kittens were hurt in filming Whack-a-Kitty, MohammadAG Jan 25 00:15:57 c.set_value('c = gconf.client_get_default() Jan 25 00:16:01 grmz Jan 25 00:16:21 c.set_value('/system/osso/dsm/locks/devicelock_autolock_enabled', false) Jan 25 00:16:23 rather Jan 25 00:16:30 but that does not seem to work either :x Jan 25 00:17:40 Gh0sty: you probably want to use set_bool instead of set_value Jan 25 00:17:54 aah there is a set_bool :P Jan 25 00:17:57 lemme try Jan 25 00:19:14 * alterego contemplates tolerance in Columbus Jan 25 00:19:37 * alterego contemplates bed. Jan 25 00:20:08 * MohammadAG contemplates stabbing tracker Jan 25 00:20:23 night alterego Jan 25 00:20:34 Hah Jan 25 00:20:46 hmm still no go :x Jan 25 00:21:01 unless it does not know at that point anymore about c ... Jan 25 00:21:04 lets try that :p Jan 25 00:22:12 oh, is it giving you: "NameError: name 'false' is not defined"? Jan 25 00:22:21 I think the python name is "False" Jan 25 00:22:50 >>> c.set_bool("/system/iamarobot",True) Jan 25 00:22:53 $ gconftool-2 -g /system/iamarobot Jan 25 00:22:54 true Jan 25 00:25:03 no i think rather that my c is not in scope at that particular point Jan 25 00:25:12 ah Jan 25 00:25:14 the c is created long before I want to use it Jan 25 00:25:19 lemme check that Jan 25 00:25:30 and cant execute the script cause its on toggle event :P Jan 25 00:25:40 can just see the result is changed or not ... :P Jan 25 00:25:46 and it does not change for the moment :) Jan 25 00:26:42 grm Jan 25 00:26:46 nope still no go :/ Jan 25 00:32:21 MrBawb: http://pastebin.com/7n8sWcHt Jan 25 00:32:36 if you would mind to check my bad code hack perhaps? :/ Jan 25 00:32:51 search for '//' where I now added some comments in the paste Jan 25 00:34:59 Gh0sty: right, 'conf_client' isn't in scope there Jan 25 00:35:11 you define a local variable called conf_client in __init__ Jan 25 00:35:13 it's only defined there Jan 25 00:35:14 and a self.conf_client? :/ Jan 25 00:35:27 or it does not work that way? :P Jan 25 00:35:28 yeah, if you change all references to conf_client to self.conf_client, you should enjoy better luck Jan 25 00:35:39 tried that Jan 25 00:35:42 no luck either Jan 25 00:35:53 can i see somewhere the output of that script? Jan 25 00:35:53 what's the error if you do that Jan 25 00:35:57 there is no messages logs Jan 25 00:36:01 on n900 Jan 25 00:36:08 run it in a terminal Jan 25 00:36:11 or where do i find that? Jan 25 00:36:21 well how can i invoke the toggle event? :P Jan 25 00:36:34 its a desktop widget Jan 25 00:36:39 ohhhh Jan 25 00:37:07 or does a desktop widget code get cached somewhere? :/ Jan 25 00:37:12 perhaps thats the problem ... Jan 25 00:37:33 not sure ... never worked with gui stuff and barely worked with python :P Jan 25 00:37:45 i am a hardcore bash scripter :P Jan 25 00:38:29 oh or wait Jan 25 00:38:38 i should also change the conf_client in the init Jan 25 00:38:43 to self.conf_client? Jan 25 00:38:55 * Gh0sty thinks he understands ... Jan 25 00:39:06 yes, exactly :) Jan 25 00:42:32 nope Jan 25 00:42:36 still nothing :( Jan 25 00:42:37 damned Jan 25 00:52:21 Gh0sty: to grab the output, just wrap it in a shell script Jan 25 00:52:44 program.orig >/tmp/log 2>&1 Jan 25 00:54:33 MrBawb: and how the hell do i add a shellscripts as a DESKTOP widget? :p Jan 25 00:55:05 just rebooting Jan 25 00:55:09 it should work now my idea Jan 25 00:55:17 there is an application for that Jan 25 00:55:22 forgot the name Jan 25 00:55:22 think its caching the script or something Jan 25 00:55:46 Gh0sty: the program is already registered as a widget, just rename it and have the shellscript execute it Jan 25 00:56:09 hmm good point! :P Jan 25 00:56:50 see Jan 25 00:56:57 it caches the widget code :P Jan 25 00:57:03 it actually works ... :P Jan 25 00:57:11 a reboot was enough :) Jan 25 00:57:17 I knew it ... :P Jan 25 00:57:17 ah Jan 25 00:57:30 now it works Jan 25 00:57:44 well its not exactly the way it should be but as a hack it'll do ... Jan 25 00:58:02 only problem is if I don't turn off my bluetooth myself but for example autodisconnect kills it Jan 25 00:58:10 my device will never lock ... Jan 25 00:58:54 but it's safer then trying to unlock it one handed while driving on the highway ... Jan 25 00:59:23 a small hack for man a giant hack for safety or something :P Jan 25 01:01:48 thx MrBawb and wjt you've been a great help ... and now off to bed (its 2am here :x) Jan 25 01:01:58 g'nite Jan 25 01:02:35 goodnight Jan 25 01:08:05 Gh0sty: .o/ Jan 25 01:43:17 good evening guys Jan 25 02:06:22 good morning **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 25 02:59:57 2011