**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 25 02:59:57 2011
Jan 25 04:45:50 <Termana> Jesus christ I'm an idiot. Just took a test for Uni and it asked what CDs were originally made for. I accidentally selected the one that said ANALOG high quality sound rather than DIGITAL high quality sound :\ Still 9/10 isn't bad and luckily it's only 3% of the units grade :p
Jan 25 04:59:53 * Termana hears the crickets
Jan 25 05:00:16 <pupnik_> moinin
Jan 25 05:33:01 <DocScrutinizer> monoin
Jan 25 05:34:02 <DocScrutinizer> mtd4/initfs/initrd anyone?
Jan 25 05:35:22 <DocScrutinizer> is it really empty and void - and unused?
Jan 25 05:35:40 <DocScrutinizer> HELL - unused????
Jan 25 05:36:01 <DocScrutinizer> and we headdesk where to place uBoot?!?
Jan 25 05:36:53 <DocScrutinizer> it's twice the size of mtd0/bootloader
Jan 25 05:37:34 <DocScrutinizer> AM I WRONG?
Jan 25 05:42:11 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: how hard can it be to patch start_of_code of NOLO (much in a virus alike way) to call a subroutine in mtd4, and there (let's call that "uBoot") first check if slide is open (one GPIO to test) and if not, execute the missing 4 bytes code from start of NOLO, then return from subroutine?
Jan 25 05:44:11 <DocScrutinizer> *if* however slide is open, do not return from subroutine, but rather start up uBoot, with menu and all - fullfeatured as we got *plenty* of storage, TWICE the size of whole NOLO partition
Jan 25 05:45:34 <DocScrutinizer> that should suffice even for uBoot, with watchdog kicking, proper (local?) env storage, plenty of room for bootmenu config in env, plus battery charging
Jan 25 05:46:35 <DocScrutinizer> darn, we probably even could add memtest-armel :-P
Jan 25 05:46:41 <Termana> DocScrutinizer - Umm, doesn't NOLO not boot if it changed in anyway? It would change NOLO's checksum
Jan 25 05:46:48 <Termana> it's*
Jan 25 05:46:53 <DocScrutinizer> Nope
Jan 25 05:47:18 <DocScrutinizer>  http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-01-15.log.html#t2011-01-15T04:09:40
Jan 25 05:47:46 <DocScrutinizer> NOLO isn't checksummed by current xloader
Jan 25 05:49:24 <DocScrutinizer> hail jacekowski for educating me about that fact
Jan 25 05:52:01 * DocScrutinizer wonders anyway WhereTF the NAND "partition table" might be - whether this is a mtdparts.h that simply is #include'd to everything that deals with NAND, like flasher, libcal/sysinfo, kernel...
Jan 25 05:52:50 <DocScrutinizer> NOLO, of course :-D
Jan 25 05:54:24 <DocScrutinizer> Termana: comments?
Jan 25 05:54:43 <Termana> comments on?
Jan 25 05:55:02 <DocScrutinizer> the whole brainburst above
Jan 25 05:55:07 <Termana> NOLO still has to be correctly signed though right?
Jan 25 05:55:23 <DocScrutinizer> Nope
Jan 25 05:55:30 <DocScrutinizer>  http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-01-15.log.html#t2011-01-15T04:09:40
Jan 25 05:55:35 <DocScrutinizer> NOLO isn't checksummed by current xloader
Jan 25 05:55:35 <Termana> So you can stick anything into NOLO?
Jan 25 05:55:40 <DocScrutinizer> hail jacekowski for educating me about that fact
Jan 25 05:55:46 <Termana> NOLO's partition rather
Jan 25 05:56:02 <Termana> Like, say u-boot if you made it so it initialised everything properly
Jan 25 05:56:19 <DocScrutinizer> see chanlog link, obviously yes, at least patched NOLO - so probably anything else as well
Jan 25 05:56:55 <DocScrutinizer> Termana: darn, read backscroll, we just need to change first 4 bytes of NOLO
Jan 25 05:57:32 <DocScrutinizer> uBoot is too large for NOLO partition, but it will fit *easily* into mtd4/initfs
Jan 25 05:58:57 <Termana> Remind me of the practical benefits of this over the current solution again?
Jan 25 05:59:48 <DocScrutinizer> standard untweaked kernel
Jan 25 05:59:55 <DocScrutinizer> lots of space for uBoot
Jan 25 06:00:08 <DocScrutinizer> really simple install and uninstall
Jan 25 06:00:22 <DocScrutinizer> well at least compared to what it's now
Jan 25 06:00:36 <Termana> You forgot one thing though
Jan 25 06:00:43 <Termana> A gazillion whine arses on tmo
Jan 25 06:01:03 <DocScrutinizer> eh?
Jan 25 06:01:14 <Termana> Nothing :p
Jan 25 06:01:52 <DocScrutinizer> you think we shouldn't make it *TOO* easy for that gazillion?
Jan 25 06:02:21 <Termana> No, what I'm saying is, it doesn't matter what you do, they'll whine about it
Jan 25 06:02:32 <Termana> and no matter how easy you make it, they will stuff it up
Jan 25 06:02:41 <DocScrutinizer> guess how much I'm concerned
Jan 25 06:02:58 <Termana> My rough guess would be, none.
Jan 25 06:03:01 <Termana> :p
Jan 25 06:03:23 <DocScrutinizer> a bit overoptimistic, but close X-P
Jan 25 06:03:28 <RobbieThe1st> That would be -damn- cool
Jan 25 06:04:01 <DocScrutinizer> Termana: actually I care even less
Jan 25 06:04:06 <Termana> :P
Jan 25 06:07:28 <DocScrutinizer> just one thing bothers me: WHY has _nobody_ seen this before? Am I wrong on initrd/mtd4 being unused?
Jan 25 06:09:10 <RobbieThe1st> I don't think so
Jan 25 06:09:23 <DocScrutinizer> (<Termana> Like, say u-boot if you made it so it initialised everything properly ) that's what I was about to walk gnutoo thru the basics last night, in #openmoko-cdevel
Jan 25 06:10:02 <DocScrutinizer> gnutoo wants to do a 'little' fancy and make uBoot fit for primetime on N900
Jan 25 06:10:02 <SpeedEvil> Haha. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/24/apple_10_billionth_customer_prank_call/ 10 billionth customer gets $10K. Of ... non-transferrible itunes gift vouchers.
Jan 25 06:10:20 <DocScrutinizer> FUCKIIIIIIIIIT
Jan 25 06:10:28 <DocScrutinizer> moin SpeedEvil :-D
Jan 25 06:10:35 <SpeedEvil> Morning.
Jan 25 06:10:51 <Termana_> darn internet
Jan 25 06:10:55 <Termana_> morning SpeedEvil
Jan 25 06:11:10 <DocScrutinizer> $10k of itunes - enough to overkill every single synapse of my brain
Jan 25 06:12:05 <DocScrutinizer> I guess we need to report this threat to Geneva
Jan 25 06:12:38 <DocScrutinizer> or even DenHaag
Jan 25 06:13:09 <Termana> Gees I disconnect for 2 seconds from talking about NOLO and the empty initfs partition to reporting threats to Geneva
Jan 25 06:14:48 <Termana> DocScrutinizer - I don't think it's that no one has noticed the partition before, it's just we never had a use for it.
Jan 25 06:14:52 <DocScrutinizer> Termana: haha, yeah we're fast
Jan 25 06:15:00 <Termana> Besides the whole /opt thing I suppose
Jan 25 06:15:17 <DocScrutinizer> it's just too small for /opt I guess :-)
Jan 25 06:15:43 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: please read 60min backscroll
Jan 25 06:15:53 <DocScrutinizer> RFC
Jan 25 06:29:39 <DocScrutinizer> ERRATUM: in above scenario, do NOT make uBoot check for slide open! Check for sth different rather, like cam-button pressed means "boot to NOLO" (or "U" or "N" pressed on keyboard) - rationale: see <-- "U" key, for flashing with NOLO
Jan 25 06:32:17 <DocScrutinizer> in epic version: We want both NOLO and uBoot to be able to gain control during boot, with open kbd slider. Otherwise we couldn't hold 'U' on bootup, for flashing via NOLO
Jan 25 06:33:34 <DocScrutinizer> probably cam-door is best: open means NOLO, closed means uBoot
Jan 25 06:35:05 <DocScrutinizer> or even better: battery cover removed: NOLO. Boot with battery cover in place: uBoot. Now that pleases my sense of ergonomics
Jan 25 06:36:45 <DocScrutinizer> as for most foolproof flashing procedure, you will find yourself in front of a device booting without battery cover anyway (start flasher, plug in to PC, insert battery :-D )
Jan 25 06:37:27 <DocScrutinizer> nice :-D
Jan 25 06:43:01 <RobbieThe1st> Out of curiosity, why do we even -need- to hold U? it always works for me just to have the flasher ready and plugged in during boot; never had to press U.
Jan 25 06:45:03 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: above sounds fine - parched nolo
Jan 25 06:45:07 <DocScrutinizer> "U" is the emergency brake, when PC is too slow to answer N900 "pings" on USB, so N900 would time out
Jan 25 06:45:45 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, guess what - stskeeps hates it. Just suggested it in #meego-arm
Jan 25 06:45:58 <DocScrutinizer> well, I don't mind
Jan 25 06:46:04 <fellu> From where is best to get better battery for n900 o.o
Jan 25 06:46:31 <SpeedEvil> fellu: Narnia.
Jan 25 06:46:33 <DocScrutinizer> from repos and wiki ;-D
Jan 25 06:47:02 <fellu> How much Mah is max, hmm
Jan 25 06:47:03 <DocScrutinizer> there's some aps that magically improve your battery on simply uninstalling them
Jan 25 06:47:09 <fellu> Yea
Jan 25 06:48:39 <DocScrutinizer> well, a flock of ~250 Mah is probably max for one shepherd
Jan 25 06:49:06 <RobbieThe1st> ...Why does Stskeeps hate it?
Jan 25 06:49:53 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-01-25 07:17:50] <Stskeeps> you don't see a problem in regular users having their nolo modded and being in a state they can't get out of by simple flashing?
Jan 25 06:49:55 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-01-25 07:18:29] * Stskeeps makes a note to not fly any planes where DocScrutinizer contributed code
Jan 25 06:50:01 <RobbieThe1st> Speaking of which, I've got to ask him about bootmenu-n900; his new version seems to be broken.
Jan 25 06:51:00 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jan 25 06:51:00 <RobbieThe1st> Y'know, that -is- a point; I'd look at rebuilding nolo so that all the code needed to check for the back cover is in that partition
Jan 25 06:51:19 <RobbieThe1st> That way the "recovery" boot only requires the one partition
Jan 25 06:51:39 <fellu> Hmm
Jan 25 06:52:00 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: sounds good, yeah
Jan 25 06:52:35 <DocScrutinizer> and it's irrelevant if we change 4 bytes or 200bytes at start of NOLO
Jan 25 06:52:46 <RobbieThe1st> Yea
Jan 25 06:53:08 <DocScrutinizer> well, it's maybe hard to keep NOLO functional at all, with 200bytes missing :-D
Jan 25 06:53:10 <RobbieThe1st> Out of curiosity, what would need to be done to reflash a broken nolo?
Jan 25 06:53:26 <DocScrutinizer> coldflash
Jan 25 06:53:30 <DocScrutinizer> ~coldflash
Jan 25 06:53:30 <infobot> i heard coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing
Jan 25 06:53:57 <RobbieThe1st> Go for it. That's not hard.
Jan 25 06:54:10 <RobbieThe1st> I see no problem in alpha-testing it.
Jan 25 06:55:47 <RobbieThe1st> Now, if it required a custom serial cable and soldering to the pads under the battery... I'd be slightly worried. Cold-flashing? No.
Jan 25 06:55:51 <DocScrutinizer> I see no problem for meego endusers either - but meh, that's stskeeps
Jan 25 06:56:24 <RobbieThe1st> Let me know if/when you get it working. I'd love to test it.
Jan 25 06:57:16 <DocScrutinizer> well, it's for sure not me getting it to work. I'm always only the mentor. It's probably GNUtoo and maybe mrmoku who will implement it
Jan 25 06:58:24 <DocScrutinizer> so odds are you'll see it in SHR-N900 first
Jan 25 06:58:44 <RobbieThe1st> Oh well
Jan 25 06:59:03 <DocScrutinizer> it's distro agnostic, so who cares
Jan 25 06:59:49 <DocScrutinizer> btw that's another advantage of this concept over what we got now for uBoot-kernel-hybrid
Jan 25 07:00:48 <DocScrutinizer> plus it won't break SSU nor will it break *on* a kernel SSU
Jan 25 07:01:38 <DocScrutinizer> and no more conflicts with the deprecated obsolete multiboot \o/
Jan 25 07:03:53 <RobbieThe1st> Yay!
Jan 25 07:04:32 <RobbieThe1st> Oh, btw -Thanks for the bme-replacement charge script; I got it working! ^_^
Jan 25 07:20:02 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-01-25 08:17:21] <DocScrutinizer> bad block in initrd uBoot -yes, that's the first killer I heard so far
Jan 25 07:20:14 <DocScrutinizer> [2011-01-25 08:18:11] <DocScrutinizer> check for magic and skip block if not found. Magic = starting 4 bytes of uBoot
Jan 25 07:20:59 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: yw
Jan 25 07:21:25 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: hoping for a backup-menu update :-D
Jan 25 07:21:56 <RobbieThe1st> I've got it almost ready. Right now, I'm trying to figure WTF is wrong with bootmenu-1.9
Jan 25 07:22:40 <RobbieThe1st> I've just found out that text2screen is returning "Unable to get screen dimensions, Unable to initialize. Exiting"
Jan 25 07:35:35 <reeniginEesreveR> can i connect to two multiple internet connections at once and have separate routing tables for both of them?
Jan 25 07:49:57 <SpeedEvil> reeniginEesreveR: not with the stock software
Jan 25 07:50:16 <reeniginEesreveR> can i do it in pretty much the same we i do it on linux?
Jan 25 07:50:23 <reeniginEesreveR> * normal linux
Jan 25 07:50:54 <SpeedEvil> In principle, yes.
Jan 25 07:51:00 <SpeedEvil> In practice, it's awkward.
Jan 25 07:51:34 <SpeedEvil> For example, the wlan network picker will not work, asit's integrated into Internet Connection Daemon (ICD)
Jan 25 07:52:02 <SpeedEvil> And you have to work out how to make most of the stack think it's 'online' - which is another thing ICD does
Jan 25 07:52:24 <reeniginEesreveR> hmmm....
Jan 25 07:52:33 <reeniginEesreveR> is there any network-manager like thing on maemo?
Jan 25 07:53:05 <SpeedEvil> Yes, closed source.
Jan 25 07:55:05 <mece> o/
Jan 25 08:00:37 * RST38h yawns
Jan 25 08:01:33 <reeniginEesreveR> SpeedEvil, whats its name?
Jan 25 08:02:39 * pupnik puts a hot bubbling cauldron of chicken-feet on the table.  Breakfast!
Jan 25 08:08:41 <RobbieThe1st> Version 0.60 of BackupMenu's been uploaded and is building. You can grab an early copy here: http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/BackupMenu/backupmenu_0.60-1_all.deb
Jan 25 08:14:24 <MohammadAG> morning
Jan 25 08:18:45 <fellu> VNC client disconnect all the time :S
Jan 25 08:19:10 <MohammadAG> I use presence VNC
Jan 25 08:19:19 <MohammadAG> its ui is awesome-ish
Jan 25 08:26:44 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: not very hard
Jan 25 08:26:50 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: nokia logo would have to go
Jan 25 08:26:58 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: and possibly all pictures
Jan 25 08:27:06 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: :-D well that's bearable
Jan 25 08:27:36 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: that would give 16K of space
Jan 25 08:27:53 <jacekowski> in which you can fit pretty much anything
Jan 25 08:27:55 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, why do we need that much space?
Jan 25 08:28:00 <jacekowski> we don't
Jan 25 08:28:06 <jacekowski> but that's how much pictures take
Jan 25 08:28:26 <jacekowski> you probably need hmm
Jan 25 08:29:11 <jacekowski> what is in mtd4?
Jan 25 08:29:23 <toadpole> someone help me fix an sd card that's showing wrong size? its a 16 gig showing size as 1.5 gig
Jan 25 08:29:44 <psycho_oreos> maybe its showing you free space?
Jan 25 08:29:53 <toadpole> nope total space
Jan 25 08:29:58 <psycho_oreos> which program did you use, and did you check it with df -h?
Jan 25 08:30:03 <jacekowski> toadpole: how do you know it's 16G?
Jan 25 08:30:12 <toadpole> it was 16 gig yesterday
Jan 25 08:30:28 <toadpole> i wrote meego on it with windiskimager
Jan 25 08:30:38 <toadpole> then formatted
Jan 25 08:30:43 <toadpole> now it shows size as 1.5 gigs
Jan 25 08:30:47 <jacekowski> hmm
Jan 25 08:30:48 <jacekowski> wipe it
Jan 25 08:30:56 <jacekowski> easiest to do with pc
Jan 25 08:31:14 <toadpole> is wipe in any way different from formatting?
Jan 25 08:31:27 <jacekowski> yes
Jan 25 08:31:30 <flux> toadpole, repartition it? (not sure if windows lets you)
Jan 25 08:31:34 <jacekowski> formats just formats first partition
Jan 25 08:31:42 <jacekowski> and that partition is probably 1.5G now
Jan 25 08:31:44 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: I thought of changing first ~30bytes to a ""mv r1, startaddr_of_initrd; loop: cmp @r1, MAGIC; jmpz r1; add r1, NANDBLOCKSIZE; jmp loop;
Jan 25 08:31:46 <thresh> moo
Jan 25 08:32:01 <thresh> any ideas on how or where can I get a chroot for fremantle?
Jan 25 08:32:07 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: you have to load stuff from nand
Jan 25 08:32:11 <jacekowski> and nand isn't xip
Jan 25 08:32:12 <toadpole> brb, lunch, 10 mins
Jan 25 08:32:13 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: mtd4 is initrd
Jan 25 08:32:20 <jacekowski> hmm
Jan 25 08:32:29 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: yep, of course
Jan 25 08:32:30 <thresh> I dont need an abomination that is scratchbox, qemu-arm+binfmt magic are fine for me
Jan 25 08:33:02 <psycho_oreos> thresh, have you looked at something like MADDE?
Jan 25 08:33:04 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: I wasn't suggesting that's valid assembler code. Just a sketch
Jan 25 08:33:06 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: so basicaly there would be normal initrd there and after that u-boot?
Jan 25 08:33:23 <DocScrutinizer> there's nothing right now
Jan 25 08:33:34 <jacekowski> there is no initrd?
Jan 25 08:33:37 <thresh> psycho_oreos: yeah, MADDE allows one to launch a full virtual machine, which I don't need as well
Jan 25 08:33:37 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Jan 25 08:33:52 <DocScrutinizer> afaik maemo5 has no initrd
Jan 25 08:34:07 <psycho_oreos> thresh, well apart from those two, I don't know of anything else
Jan 25 08:34:11 <MohammadAG> it's initfs
Jan 25 08:34:18 <DocScrutinizer> whatever
Jan 25 08:34:29 <MohammadAG> and preinit shows "no initfs \o/"
Jan 25 08:34:38 <MohammadAG> so what, it's just empty?
Jan 25 08:34:48 <thresh> psycho_oreos: well yeah I was hoping of some 'debootstrap'-like recipe to have a chroot
Jan 25 08:34:50 <DocScrutinizer> yes, <FF> <FF>
Jan 25 08:34:59 <MohammadAG> It's the same size as the kernel partition
Jan 25 08:35:04 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Jan 25 08:35:08 <DocScrutinizer> pretty huge
Jan 25 08:35:16 <DocScrutinizer> compared to what we got now
Jan 25 08:35:29 <MohammadAG> we can fit pr0^H^H^H u-boot on it!
Jan 25 08:35:37 <thresh> the best idea I came up yet is to mount qemu image used by MADDE and just copy the files
Jan 25 08:35:51 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: i think nolo isn't configured to load initrd at all
Jan 25 08:36:05 <DocScrutinizer> we don't want initrd
Jan 25 08:36:13 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, read /sbin/preinit
Jan 25 08:36:16 <DocScrutinizer> we want uBoot in there
Jan 25 08:36:22 <jacekowski> yeah but i mean it won't load anything from mtd4
Jan 25 08:36:26 <MohammadAG> it simply says "no initfs"
Jan 25 08:36:30 <MohammadAG> it should
Jan 25 08:36:40 <MohammadAG> it did for the N8x0 didn't it?
Jan 25 08:36:48 <jacekowski> but using nolo functions it can be done in ~300bytes
Jan 25 08:36:52 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: that's what my "code" above was ment for, to patch NOLO
Jan 25 08:37:10 <DocScrutinizer> meant*
Jan 25 08:38:09 <jacekowski> yeah i'm just saying it will be little bit more complicated than that
Jan 25 08:38:12 <jacekowski> but possible
Jan 25 08:38:28 <jacekowski> i've done more complicated code caves
Jan 25 08:38:43 <MohammadAG> but if they planned no initfs
Jan 25 08:38:55 <MohammadAG> why did they partition the NAND to have mtd4?
Jan 25 08:39:00 <jacekowski> how big is initrd?
Jan 25 08:39:02 <jacekowski> ehh
Jan 25 08:39:05 <jacekowski> mtd4*
Jan 25 08:39:11 <jacekowski> and other thing
Jan 25 08:39:18 <MohammadAG> same as kernel fs
Jan 25 08:39:24 <jacekowski> 2MB?
Jan 25 08:39:27 <DocScrutinizer> so move the first 4 bytes into picture area of NOLO, replace a jump to some additional code, and in that additional code do a test if there's a valid MAGIC number at start of first block in initfs partition, else jump to next block. Once MAGIC is found, jump to that as it's start of uBoot
Jan 25 08:39:28 <MohammadAG> yeah
Jan 25 08:39:31 <jacekowski> can anybody with linux try something for me?
Jan 25 08:39:42 <MohammadAG> we all have linux
Jan 25 08:39:45 <MohammadAG> most of us anyway
Jan 25 08:39:46 <jacekowski> on pcc
Jan 25 08:40:00 <MohammadAG> my point stands
Jan 25 08:40:05 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: err, 4MB?
Jan 25 08:40:14 <MohammadAG> 2MB
Jan 25 08:40:37 <johnx> I parsed that as ppc first :)
Jan 25 08:40:46 <johnx> but yeah, what's the question?
Jan 25 08:40:48 * MohammadAG starts planning to install mohammedia player on mtd4 muhahaha
Jan 25 08:40:59 <MohammadAG> johnx, some of us have a PS3
Jan 25 08:41:01 <MohammadAG> :P
Jan 25 08:41:14 <johnx> MohammadAG, I have a powerbook G4 :)
Jan 25 08:41:26 <MohammadAG> pfft, PS3 owns it
Jan 25 08:41:27 <MohammadAG> :P
Jan 25 08:41:42 <thresh> the problem is, that qemu image doesnt have anything kpartx would try :/
Jan 25 08:42:02 * johnx pictures MohammadAG sitting around with a PS3 on his lap and a TV on the table at the coffee shop
Jan 25 08:42:20 <MohammadAG> johnx, good times
Jan 25 08:42:22 <RST38h> moo johnx, thresh, Mohammad
Jan 25 08:42:28 <johnx> m00f RST38h
Jan 25 08:42:29 <MohammadAG> moo RST38h
Jan 25 08:42:36 <RST38h> johnx: look at the bright side: he can always warm up his coffee
Jan 25 08:42:37 <DocScrutinizer> waaaaaah, the Vogons are tearing down my house
Jan 25 08:42:38 <thresh> hey RST38h
Jan 25 08:42:51 <DocScrutinizer> hi RST38h
Jan 25 08:42:55 <MohammadAG> RST38h, my laptop does a way better job at that
Jan 25 08:42:58 <RST38h> Doc: Use the laser
Jan 25 08:43:10 <RST38h> Mohammad: Than PS3 even? Hm
Jan 25 08:43:11 <jacekowski> but going back to my linux question
Jan 25 08:43:16 <jacekowski> i want to test something
Jan 25 08:43:19 <MohammadAG> RST38h, 85C!
Jan 25 08:43:21 <jacekowski> but it may require coldflash of nolo
Jan 25 08:43:30 <MohammadAG> dd mtd4?
Jan 25 08:43:33 <jacekowski> and i don't have linux here on my work laptop
Jan 25 08:43:44 <jacekowski> so i want somebody else to try it
Jan 25 08:43:45 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Jan 25 08:43:46 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer:
Jan 25 08:43:48 <jacekowski> MohammadAG:
Jan 25 08:43:55 <jacekowski> i'm pointing at you
Jan 25 08:43:56 <RST38h> jacekowski: the answer is "no"
Jan 25 08:44:05 <RST38h> (actually, the full answer has been "shit, no!"
Jan 25 08:44:07 <DocScrutinizer> my brain is bouncing in my head
Jan 25 08:44:08 <psycho_oreos> lol
Jan 25 08:44:14 <toadpole> okay, so disk management shows me 13-odd gb as unallocated space
Jan 25 08:44:18 <jacekowski> RST38h: move away, you're stopping progress
Jan 25 08:44:19 <toadpole> but i can't do anything to it
Jan 25 08:44:34 <toadpole> can't delete the one existing partition either
Jan 25 08:44:44 <MohammadAG> This feels like a sci-fi movie or something
Jan 25 08:45:01 <MohammadAG> so jacekowski, what do you want?
Jan 25 08:45:06 <jacekowski> just a sec
Jan 25 08:45:27 <DocScrutinizer> toadpole: umount all vlumes, use cfdisk, profit
Jan 25 08:45:42 <psycho_oreos> dd ftw ;)
Jan 25 08:46:27 <toadpole> ( DocScrutinizer ): how about a windows solution?
Jan 25 08:46:39 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, a nice little dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmc count=1 bs=10M
Jan 25 08:46:52 <psycho_oreos> or s/zero/urandom/
Jan 25 08:46:57 <DocScrutinizer> tiaNFC. Windows, what's that?
Jan 25 08:47:12 <DocScrutinizer> toadpole: ^^^
Jan 25 08:47:13 <psycho_oreos> non-existant OS ;)
Jan 25 08:47:24 <johnx> toadpole, loading up windows in a VM, hang on a sec.
Jan 25 08:47:32 <psycho_oreos> rawwrite might do it
Jan 25 08:48:05 <thresh> what's the filesystem of RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.nand ?
Jan 25 08:48:25 <DocScrutinizer> ubifs?
Jan 25 08:48:32 <toadpole> i guess something on maemo, would be fine too, is that possible?
Jan 25 08:48:36 <DocScrutinizer> you mean the / fs?
Jan 25 08:48:45 <thresh> UBIFS error (pid 24902): ubifs_get_sb: cannot open "/dev/loop3", error -22 bleh :)
Jan 25 08:49:06 <thresh> DocScrutinizer: yeah
Jan 25 08:49:11 <psycho_oreos> there's fdisk on maemo but afaik it looks very much like sfdisk which might be somewhat confusing
Jan 25 08:49:15 <DocScrutinizer> should be ubifs for all I know
Jan 25 08:49:16 <johnx> toadpole, I'd just stick with windows for this and google for: "repartition sd card"
Jan 25 08:49:18 <thresh> i converted that qemu image to RAW, but no idea how to mount it properly
Jan 25 08:49:47 <toadpole> i guess that'll help, i'll look around and may trouble you again if i can't find anything useful
Jan 25 08:49:49 <toadpole> thanks guys
Jan 25 08:49:57 <johnx> good luck
Jan 25 08:50:03 <DocScrutinizer> psycho_oreos: cfdisk ftw
Jan 25 08:50:28 <johnx> cfdisk has been my favorite for approximately forever
Jan 25 08:51:08 <psycho_oreos> I personally don't think you can do much with a raw file that's been converted from qemu image. The first fair few lines of the file would be just stuff for qemu, bad idea. The second is the rest of the stuff are pre-compiled for ARM stuff
Jan 25 08:51:18 <psycho_oreos> DocScrutinizer, don't know if that's available for maemo :)
Jan 25 08:51:43 <DocScrutinizer> toadpole: IroN900:/home/user# apt-cache policy cfdisk  --> Installed: 2.12r-19    500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Packages
Jan 25 08:52:04 <psycho_oreos> o.O its there
Jan 25 08:53:12 <thresh> ha WIN
Jan 25 08:53:30 <thresh> launched runtime with qemu, apt-get install rsync
Jan 25 08:53:39 <thresh> rsync -e "ssh -p 6666" root@127.0.0.1:
Jan 25 08:53:40 <thresh> ftw
Jan 25 08:54:50 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: http://maemo.jacekowski.org/binary/nolo/mod_nolo.bin
Jan 25 08:54:55 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: flash that into your phone
Jan 25 08:55:15 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: it's just modified to force nolo prompt to appear
Jan 25 08:56:41 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, chances of a brick?
Jan 25 08:56:57 <MohammadAG> even if recoverable
Jan 25 08:57:14 <johnx> then it's not a brick
Jan 25 08:57:25 <MohammadAG> indeed
Jan 25 08:58:08 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: your backup-menu is painfully missing a "boot to linux" option, effectively a way to normally boot with kbd open
Jan 25 08:59:13 <RobbieThe1st> I suppose, but I intend to let the underlying loader(boomenu-n900 in this case) handle that
Jan 25 08:59:38 <RobbieThe1st> Unfortunately, bootmenu-1.8 didn't really support booting into Maemo(the option just crashed the system)
Jan 25 08:59:49 <RobbieThe1st> and this new version... I can't get it to display -any- menu.
Jan 25 08:59:51 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
Jan 25 09:00:07 <RST38h> What color do you want your brick to be?
Jan 25 09:00:29 <DocScrutinizer> time for 12648430
Jan 25 09:00:34 <johnx> RST38h, you can have any color you want as long as it's black :D
Jan 25 09:01:41 <RobbieThe1st> Also, FYI - You can try making it work yourself: Just edit /etc/bootmenu.d/backupmenu.item appropriately, and launch the file refrenced inside
Jan 25 09:02:54 <RST38h> johnx: Xboxes are red, I have heard
Jan 25 09:03:33 <johnx> you said 'brick,' not 'boat anchor'
Jan 25 09:03:58 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: yes, that's why i'm asking if you can coldflash
Jan 25 09:04:43 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, flashed, no problems
Jan 25 09:05:04 <MohammadAG> device booted
Jan 25 09:05:28 <MohammadAG> it's an x-loader image right?
Jan 25 09:06:28 <jacekowski> nope
Jan 25 09:06:29 <jacekowski> nolo image
Jan 25 09:08:04 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, no I meant I should flash it with -x right?
Jan 25 09:08:12 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: no
Jan 25 09:08:16 <jacekowski> let me check
Jan 25 09:08:17 <MohammadAG> uh
Jan 25 09:09:32 <jacekowski> flasher-3.5 -f --flash-only=nolo -s mod_nolo.bin -x xloader.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103
Jan 25 09:12:11 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, NOLO's on screen atm
Jan 25 09:12:20 <MohammadAG> I'm guessing it "worked"?
Jan 25 09:12:48 <Jaffa> Monrning, all
Jan 25 09:12:57 <jacekowski> hmm, anything happens if you push some buttons
Jan 25 09:13:01 <jacekowski> on keyboard
Jan 25 09:14:30 <jacekowski> try typing boot
Jan 25 09:14:52 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: are you still there or it has exploded?
Jan 25 09:15:09 <MohammadAG> nothing shows up jacekowski
Jan 25 09:15:23 <jacekowski> hmm, so it's probably serial only
Jan 25 09:15:27 <MohammadAG> emergency charging
Jan 25 09:15:40 <MohammadAG> but the battery's full...
Jan 25 09:15:43 <jacekowski> you can flash it back to normal nolo
Jan 25 09:16:58 <jacekowski> i'm not sure if normal flash mode will work or you have to coldflash it
Jan 25 09:17:50 <MohammadAG> nope
Jan 25 09:17:55 <MohammadAG> normal flashing doesn't work
Jan 25 09:18:34 <jacekowski> then coldflash
Jan 25 09:18:58 <MohammadAG> it doesn't seem to want to...
Jan 25 09:19:23 <jacekowski> how are you doing it?
Jan 25 09:19:37 <jacekowski> ~coldflash
Jan 25 09:19:37 <infobot> coldflash is, like, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing
Jan 25 09:19:41 <MohammadAG> done
Jan 25 09:19:53 <jacekowski> ok
Jan 25 09:20:31 <jacekowski> hmm, i'll have to try it on mine when i get back home
Jan 25 09:20:43 <MohammadAG> can't windows cold flash?
Jan 25 09:20:48 <MohammadAG> or is enumeration too slow?
Jan 25 09:21:28 <jacekowski> enumeration is too slow
Jan 25 09:28:55 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: yeah, that was supposed to give nolo prompt
Jan 25 09:29:03 <jacekowski> but ihas hoping for on screen prompt
Jan 25 09:29:09 <jacekowski> but it looks like serial prompt
Jan 25 09:29:23 <stef_204> My OS is version V 20.2010.36-2, RX 51, Nokia N900.  Is the the latest available?  Sorry but I am unable to see which is current version on maemo.org
Jan 25 09:30:00 <jacekowski> hmm, i don't think so
Jan 25 09:30:01 <jacekowski> check
Jan 25 09:30:18 <psycho_oreos> it is
Jan 25 09:30:21 <jacekowski> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php
Jan 25 09:30:41 <stef_204> jacekowski: is that link for me?
Jan 25 09:30:45 <jacekowski> yes
Jan 25 09:31:23 <stef_204> jacekowski: so my OS version is not latest one then?
Jan 25 09:31:30 <jacekowski> i'm not sure
Jan 25 09:31:37 <jacekowski> if you look at that website you can check
Jan 25 09:31:40 <stef_204> ok, lemme check
Jan 25 09:31:48 <jacekowski> i don't remember these numbers
Jan 25 09:31:54 <jacekowski> but psycho_oreos said that it is latest
Jan 25 09:32:10 <psycho_oreos> its PR1.3
Jan 25 09:32:13 <johnx> stef_204, the date in the version number is when that build went *into* testing, not when it was released to the public
Jan 25 09:32:36 <stef_204> oh, OK, wasn't sure psycho_oreos was replying to me or not.
Jan 25 09:32:45 <psycho_oreos> stef_204, I was :)
Jan 25 09:33:04 <stef_204> psycho_oreos: tx! well if I have the latest, no need to update...
Jan 25 09:33:29 <jacekowski> you can always flash it
Jan 25 09:35:56 <stef_204> ok tx guys
Jan 25 09:42:08 <GNUtoo|laptop> hi jacekowski DocScrutinizer51
Jan 25 09:42:35 <DocScrutinizer> hi GNUtoo|laptop
Jan 25 09:42:36 <GNUtoo|laptop> I saw you discussed about porting u-boot
Jan 25 09:42:42 <GNUtoo|laptop> in this channel
Jan 25 09:42:46 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Jan 25 09:42:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> isn't uboot too big?
Jan 25 09:42:56 <GNUtoo|laptop> and too hard?
Jan 25 09:43:02 <GNUtoo|laptop> compared to barebox/uboot_v2?
Jan 25 09:43:18 <DocScrutinizer> you seen the chanlog of #openmoko-cdevel and here?
Jan 25 09:43:40 <GNUtoo|laptop> only here, and part of it, because the logs are long
Jan 25 09:44:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> did someone say something important on that mather when I was away in #openmoko-cdevel?
Jan 25 09:44:29 <DocScrutinizer> GNUtoo|laptop: I don't have any particular notion about uBoot vs alternatives - as long as it's a full featured bootloader that supports config and menu
Jan 25 09:45:10 <GNUtoo|laptop> I think the only usable alternatives are uboot or ubootV2
Jan 25 09:45:20 <DocScrutinizer> GNUtoo|laptop: well, my suggestion was to use mtd4/initfs partition
Jan 25 09:45:43 <DocScrutinizer> it's _huge_ and unused
Jan 25 09:45:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> there is also an mtdlog partition
Jan 25 09:46:04 <GNUtoo|laptop> basically I tried that:
Jan 25 09:46:11 <DocScrutinizer> and getting rid of this uBoot-kernel-hybrid has a lot of benefits
Jan 25 09:46:23 <MohammadAG> uBoot2?
Jan 25 09:46:51 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://barebox.org/
Jan 25 09:47:10 <DocScrutinizer> GNUtoo|laptop: log partition is a bad idea. It's actually a partition that gets frequently written to, in normal operation
Jan 25 09:47:14 <GNUtoo|laptop> it seem a lot easier to work with
Jan 25 09:47:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 09:47:24 <fellu> hmh
Jan 25 09:47:33 <MohammadAG> mtd4 is ideal
Jan 25 09:47:36 <fellu> cannot connect to my vnc server on n900 ;I
Jan 25 09:47:37 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 09:47:40 <DocScrutinizer> mtd2 is a log of console, when OOPS or PANIC
Jan 25 09:47:45 <fellu> x11vnc
Jan 25 09:47:49 <GNUtoo|laptop> anyway I can't even coldboot uboot.bin or barebox.bin
Jan 25 09:47:52 <DocScrutinizer> mtd4 is unused
Jan 25 09:48:09 <fellu> where I can find log about vnc server on n900?
Jan 25 09:48:17 <MohammadAG> or we could always make mtd5 smaller :P
Jan 25 09:48:18 <MohammadAG> jk
Jan 25 09:48:20 <GNUtoo|laptop> also there is a risk of bricking
Jan 25 09:48:31 <GNUtoo|laptop> for instance if the battery is too low
Jan 25 09:48:39 <GNUtoo|laptop> and that it discharge completely
Jan 25 09:48:39 <MohammadAG> that's not a brick
Jan 25 09:48:42 <MohammadAG> just charge it up
Jan 25 09:48:46 <GNUtoo|laptop> how?
Jan 25 09:48:51 <GNUtoo|laptop> if the bootloader is not ther
Jan 25 09:48:52 <MohammadAG> externally
Jan 25 09:48:55 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 09:48:57 <MohammadAG> it doesn't qualify as a brick
Jan 25 09:49:03 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 09:49:10 <kerio> MohammadAG: not everyone has 8 batteries and an external charger like you
Jan 25 09:49:20 <GNUtoo|laptop> anyway I've an openmoko battery so it should be ok
Jan 25 09:49:33 <MohammadAG> kerio, any 3 pin battery that fits works
Jan 25 09:49:49 <MohammadAG> i charge one of my N900 batteries in an N95
Jan 25 09:50:10 <MohammadAG> it's longer, but the 3 pins reach the contacts
Jan 25 09:50:27 <MohammadAG> and it seems the N95 isn't hardcoded for its own battery
Jan 25 09:50:46 <psycho_oreos> wtf? now that's interesting
Jan 25 09:50:52 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://pastebin.com/pe4LS2bC
Jan 25 09:51:01 <MohammadAG> yeah, proves that bme is retarded
Jan 25 09:51:23 <DocScrutinizer> no matter, if bootloader would really charge on its own, that's a good thing anyway
Jan 25 09:51:24 <jacekowski> bme can charge differen batteries iirc
Jan 25 09:51:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> so I've to flash?
Jan 25 09:52:04 <DocScrutinizer> bme actually doesn't care and charges almost everything, at least on N900
Jan 25 09:52:08 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, but the meter's fucked
Jan 25 09:52:23 <MohammadAG> ask ShadowJK, his mugen shows full till depleted
Jan 25 09:52:39 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: that's more serious
Jan 25 09:52:55 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: because meter has to be calibrated to specific battery
Jan 25 09:53:02 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: and it looks like bme learns battery capacity
Jan 25 09:53:06 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: and it's stored in cal
Jan 25 09:53:12 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, it works fine on an N95
Jan 25 09:54:00 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: what is in barebox.bin?
Jan 25 09:54:22 <GNUtoo|laptop> jacekowski, something like uboot.bin
Jan 25 09:54:43 <GNUtoo|laptop> only that's it's barebox = ubootv2 rather than uboot
Jan 25 09:55:08 <GNUtoo|laptop> and it's small
Jan 25 09:55:09 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: you're doing it wrong
Jan 25 09:55:11 <GNUtoo|laptop> smaller than uboot
Jan 25 09:55:12 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 09:55:21 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: first, don't use coldflash
Jan 25 09:55:23 <jacekowski> 2nd
Jan 25 09:55:54 <jacekowski>  flasher-3.5 -f --flash-only=nolo -s barebox.bin -x xloader.bin-RX-51:2101,2102,2103
Jan 25 09:56:05 <jacekowski> using normal flashing procedure
Jan 25 09:56:06 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 09:56:20 <jacekowski> coldflash is only to boot phone with nokia nolo
Jan 25 09:56:24 <GNUtoo|laptop> so I can't coldflash my own code?
Jan 25 09:56:25 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 09:56:30 <jacekowski> no
Jan 25 09:56:37 <GNUtoo|laptop> I also tried with pusb but failed
Jan 25 09:56:45 <jacekowski> all that coldflash is doing is booting phone over usb
Jan 25 09:56:50 <jacekowski> it's not flashing it
Jan 25 09:56:52 <GNUtoo|laptop> I know
Jan 25 09:56:55 <GNUtoo|laptop> that's what I want
Jan 25 09:56:56 <GNUtoo|laptop> for now
Jan 25 09:57:08 <jacekowski> well, then you just do it that way
Jan 25 09:57:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> so I could port some sort of bootloader without risk
Jan 25 09:57:32 <jacekowski> well then that's ok
Jan 25 09:57:38 <jacekowski> that command you're using
Jan 25 09:57:46 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 09:57:51 <jacekowski> and it just shows that your bl isn't behaving like normal nolo would
Jan 25 09:58:14 <GNUtoo|laptop> so the bootloader somehow runs?
Jan 25 09:58:23 <DocScrutinizer> that would be boring if it worked on first take
Jan 25 09:58:36 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Jan 25 09:58:45 <GNUtoo|laptop> somehow....
Jan 25 09:58:51 <GNUtoo|laptop> I mean that it jumps to bootloader
Jan 25 09:58:59 <GNUtoo|laptop> and then it has issue in bootloader's code
Jan 25 10:00:02 <GNUtoo|laptop> or isn't the barebox.bin even executed or sent
Jan 25 10:00:12 <GNUtoo|laptop> s/sent/sent completely/
Jan 25 10:00:12 <infobot> GNUtoo|laptop meant: or isn't the barebox.bin even executed or sent completely
Jan 25 10:00:27 <GNUtoo|laptop> as I've not the code of flasher I can't verify what it's doing
Jan 25 10:00:39 <MohammadAG> why not flash it?
Jan 25 10:00:49 <GNUtoo|laptop> maybe I should try to replace flasher's coldboot feature with pusb
Jan 25 10:01:02 <MohammadAG> you can coldflash back to Nokia's loader
Jan 25 10:01:11 <GNUtoo|laptop> if I've enough battery, yes
Jan 25 10:01:16 <crashanddie> back in a few seconds
Jan 25 10:02:16 <MohammadAG> then charge up, flash, test, flash back
Jan 25 10:02:30 <GNUtoo|laptop> indeed so I'll wait for the battery to charge enough
Jan 25 10:02:36 <GNUtoo|laptop> because for now I've less than 10%
Jan 25 10:02:43 <MohammadAG> ah
Jan 25 10:02:43 <GNUtoo|laptop> or nearly 10%
Jan 25 10:03:37 <DocScrutinizer> there's quite some tests that won't do proper flashing when battery is low
Jan 25 10:04:09 <DocScrutinizer> I.E. NOLO refuses to enter flashing mode when bat voltage too low
Jan 25 10:04:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 10:05:51 <DocScrutinizer> GNUtoo|laptop: when you are experimenting with elementary things like rootfs and BL, then I suggest you get a second battery and keep that charged, for recovery purposes
Jan 25 10:05:57 <Termana> DocScrutinizer - while we're editing NOLO, seems like a good time to implement your "press keyboard button and NOLO will start charging" solution :p
Jan 25 10:06:40 <GNUtoo|laptop> I just wondered about that, when you buy a battery, is it already charged?
Jan 25 10:06:47 <DocScrutinizer> Termana: that will go to uBoot. It's simply too much hacking to implement it to NOLO
Jan 25 10:07:01 <pupnik> do people use 'booting over USB' to test new kernels and system images?
Jan 25 10:07:04 <DocScrutinizer> GNUtoo|laptop: usually not 100%
Jan 25 10:07:23 <GNUtoo|laptop> yes but it could manage to boot right?
Jan 25 10:07:34 <DocScrutinizer> should
Jan 25 10:07:36 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 10:07:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> the openmoko battery doesn't seem to fit anyway
Jan 25 10:07:55 <DocScrutinizer> otherwise odds are it got deep discharged and is DOA
Jan 25 10:08:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> what's the best thing to do:
Jan 25 10:08:27 <GNUtoo|laptop> *buy the battery before it happens
Jan 25 10:08:31 <GNUtoo|laptop> or:
Jan 25 10:08:32 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Jan 25 10:08:41 <GNUtoo|laptop> *buy the battery when it has just happened
Jan 25 10:08:52 <DocScrutinizer> nope, buy now and charge
Jan 25 10:09:04 <DocScrutinizer> recharge every 3 months
Jan 25 10:09:06 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 10:09:41 <DocScrutinizer> store in a cool place
Jan 25 10:09:52 <DocScrutinizer> not in freezer though
Jan 25 10:10:12 <psycho_oreos> heh
Jan 25 10:10:37 <psycho_oreos> more like store in a cool, dry place
Jan 25 10:11:18 <MohammadAG> cool oven then?
Jan 25 10:11:24 <RobbieThe1st> <_< Y'know, provided you keep it inside a baggie, a freezer is fine. I left a Nokia spare battery that was fully charged in the freezer for over 6 months, then outside in the shop for at least a year... It got down to -10F there.
Jan 25 10:11:40 <psycho_oreos> humm what about placing it in an airtight bag and then placing that into the fridge :D
Jan 25 10:11:43 <RobbieThe1st> I just found it again, stuck it in a phone, booted it... it was >8-%
Jan 25 10:11:46 <RobbieThe1st> *8
Jan 25 10:11:49 <RobbieThe1st> *80
Jan 25 10:11:51 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 10:11:56 <MohammadAG> lol
Jan 25 10:12:14 <RobbieThe1st> And it charged fully again. It did surprise me somewhat
Jan 25 10:24:44 <DocScrutinizer> rumour has it that LiIon doesn't like freezing
Jan 25 10:25:37 <Venemo> good morning
Jan 25 10:26:00 <DocScrutinizer> and normal fridge is just fine and completely sufficient, you should pack it in a sealed bag though, preferably with a small bag of dryer
Jan 25 10:26:44 <psycho_oreos> I win :P
Jan 25 10:27:16 <psycho_oreos> I guess its one of those same techniques as dealing with recovering data from dying hard drives
Jan 25 10:32:48 <RobbieThe1st> AFAIK, Lion simply doesn't react at lower temps; the colder you keep it, the less capacity/charge you lose. Down to the point at which it actually freezes.
Jan 25 10:38:54 <Venemo> MohammadAG: ping
Jan 25 10:39:06 <MohammadAG> pong
Jan 25 10:42:56 <jacekowski> RobbieThe1st: nope
Jan 25 10:43:05 <RobbieThe1st> ?
Jan 25 10:44:20 <jacekowski> RobbieThe1st: freezing batteries kill them
Jan 25 10:44:29 <jacekowski> RobbieThe1st: that's why winter kills batteries
Jan 25 10:44:45 <jacekowski> we service pedestrian counters for some company
Jan 25 10:44:57 <jacekowski> and after every single winter we have to replace all battery packs
Jan 25 10:45:19 <kerio> methinks adding some sealing would help
Jan 25 10:46:37 <RobbieThe1st> Around here, with temps going down to -10F, we haven't had any trouble. This includes lead-acid car batteries(Yes, the water can freeze if it's not acid enough, I suppose), lithium-ion phone batteries, and, of course, Alkaline primary cells (which shouldn't freeze at these temps
Jan 25 10:46:52 <RobbieThe1st> Now, I don't dispute that batteries can freeze... but it's all the temps
Jan 25 10:47:28 <jacekowski> i think your definition of cold is different to mine
Jan 25 10:47:31 <RobbieThe1st> And - provided it's not being used - Below freezing, in the 10f to -10f range for a few weeks doesn't seem to hurt
Jan 25 10:47:47 <kerio> for me cold is 16C° or lower
Jan 25 10:47:48 <kerio> :3
Jan 25 10:48:19 <jacekowski> RobbieThe1st: use SI units
Jan 25 10:48:26 <RobbieThe1st> I don't know em well.
Jan 25 10:48:35 <jacekowski> 0 freezing
Jan 25 10:49:13 <RobbieThe1st> 32F = freezing. But I'm not exactly sure what -10f is. etc.
Jan 25 10:49:20 <RobbieThe1st> Sure, I could look it up, but meh.
Jan 25 10:49:32 <kerio> -23
Jan 25 10:49:35 <kerio> HOLY FUCK
Jan 25 10:49:38 <DocScrutinizer> yeah exactly, meh
Jan 25 10:50:02 <thresh> -23 is ok
Jan 25 10:50:05 <thresh> celsius
Jan 25 10:50:11 <RobbieThe1st> And I'm saying I have a number of batteries(of several types), which have been at that temperature for quite a while without issue.
Jan 25 10:50:13 <thresh> -30 way way worse
Jan 25 10:50:22 <kerio> where the fuck do you all guys live? D:
Jan 25 10:50:30 <kerio> without heating i'm at 19.5°C at the moment
Jan 25 10:50:30 <DocScrutinizer> there for sure is a reason for LiIon manufs to forbid charging and even discharging at high rate LiIon @ < -20°C
Jan 25 10:50:35 <RobbieThe1st> NE Washington, USA
Jan 25 10:50:44 <MohammadAG> I envy you all
Jan 25 10:50:48 <thresh> Moscow
Jan 25 10:50:52 <MohammadAG> I want subzero temps too
Jan 25 10:50:56 <kerio> rome, italy :3
Jan 25 10:51:01 <RobbieThe1st> Doc: I don't disagree there. Storage on the other hand...
Jan 25 10:51:17 <zutesmog> 0°C is cold for me ;-) Two weeks ago it was 44°C and 46°C where I am ;-)
Jan 25 10:51:20 <MohammadAG> mother nature's racist
Jan 25 10:52:10 * thresh wants his +25 all year long
Jan 25 10:52:49 <jacekowski> RobbieThe1st: so where does water boil on your scale?
Jan 25 10:52:57 <jacekowski> 100C on mine
Jan 25 10:53:00 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: read manuf's datasheet, about allowable and *recommended* storing temperature. And esp about storage time and temeprature for which they guarantee cell will survive
Jan 25 10:53:06 <RobbieThe1st> 200-something.
Jan 25 10:53:19 <BCMM> Fahrenheit is amazing in several ways
Jan 25 10:53:20 <jacekowski> si is so much better
Jan 25 10:53:22 <jacekowski> 0 and 100
Jan 25 10:53:38 <jacekowski> kelvin is nice as well
Jan 25 10:53:45 <MohammadAG> F is stupid
Jan 25 10:53:46 <jacekowski> because 0K means 0
Jan 25 10:53:54 <jacekowski> as in you can't go any lower
Jan 25 10:53:55 <BCMM> firstly, IIRC it's calibrated so that 0-100 covers somebody's idea of what sensible outdoors temperatures are possible
Jan 25 10:53:56 <RobbieThe1st> Whatever; I know F for personal temperature. I know C - barely - in the 35-40 range
Jan 25 10:54:08 <BCMM> secondly, *it's nonlinear*.
Jan 25 10:54:11 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, you can, just reinvent physics
Jan 25 10:54:15 <BCMM> it is a nonlinear temperature scale...
Jan 25 10:54:33 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: BS
Jan 25 10:54:54 <RobbieThe1st> DocScrutinizer: I assume it's made by Samsung, but I've no clue where to find a datasheet
Jan 25 10:54:56 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: at what?
Jan 25 10:55:07 <DocScrutinizer> at "nonlinear"
Jan 25 10:56:01 <BCMM> huh, i may be wrong about that
Jan 25 10:56:12 <BCMM> is there another temperature scale people used to use?
Jan 25 10:56:19 <DocScrutinizer> none of the conversation algorithms I used or seen so far had any nonlinear component for Fahrenheit
Jan 25 10:56:47 <jonwil> I prefer Celcius
Jan 25 10:56:55 <Venemo> BCMM: fahrenheit is linear, it's just weird
Jan 25 10:56:56 <trx2> celsius ftw
Jan 25 10:57:15 <Venemo> yes, celsius is sensible
Jan 25 10:57:50 <BCMM> Celsius is a nice compromise between everyday practicality and scientific usefulness
Jan 25 10:58:06 <BCMM> (in that it is SI for temperature-difference calculations)
Jan 25 10:58:11 <alterego> celcius isn't that sensible, they set 0 to the temperature that some liquid solidifies at sea level ll
Jan 25 10:58:14 <jacekowski> to be hones even kelvin is better for everyday use
Jan 25 10:58:30 <BCMM> also, having a very clear idea of when your driveway will be icy is useful
Jan 25 10:58:38 <jacekowski> alterego: the most common liquid on planet
Jan 25 10:58:56 <trx2> kelvin isnt for everyday use, when do you use apsolute zero ?
Jan 25 10:59:03 <alterego> jacekowski: sure, it's just not a "universal" scale though
Jan 25 10:59:20 <alterego> Kelvin is more, well, "scientific"
Jan 25 10:59:44 <BCMM> yeah, there are actually a fair number of people who live at sufficient altitude that boiling water is substantially cooler than 100C
Jan 25 10:59:58 <alterego> I don't even know where fahr comes from :)
Jan 25 10:59:59 <zutesmog> water freezing and water boiling are good every day comparisons that people can relate too.  Kelvin isn't as helpful for everyday use.
Jan 25 11:00:02 <jacekowski> well, at 8000m it goes down to under 90C
Jan 25 11:00:28 <trx2> well then count from -172
Jan 25 11:00:30 <zutesmog> even so 90°C is still in a reasonable range from 0°C
Jan 25 11:00:37 <SpeedEvil> alterego: It's the lowest temperature you can get my mixing ice and salt at 0F, with 100F being the temperature of a dogs arse.
Jan 25 11:00:38 <trx2> doesnt matter..
Jan 25 11:00:38 <jacekowski> zutesmog: 273k for 0C and 373k for 100C
Jan 25 11:00:38 <BCMM> if i recall correctly, freezing point doesn't move so dramatically
Jan 25 11:00:53 <alterego> SpeedEvil: :D
Jan 25 11:00:54 <trx2> SpeedEvil lol
Jan 25 11:01:00 <zutesmog> but people can remember 0 and 100 far more easily
Jan 25 11:01:03 <MohammadAG> K is C+273
Jan 25 11:01:06 <jacekowski> zutesmog: same unit as c just different offset
Jan 25 11:01:21 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: is that literally true? i know 100F is well-known as an attainable but unhealthy internal temperature.
Jan 25 11:01:24 <zutesmog> I know, but explain it to my dad or my wife ;-)
Jan 25 11:01:31 <alterego> celcius is just more "metric" ..
Jan 25 11:01:46 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: I vaguely remember it is. Google does in fact say 100Fish is the body temp of dogs
Jan 25 11:02:24 <alterego> I have to say though, this is probably the most boring conversation I've had to wake up to.
Jan 25 11:02:34 <MohammadAG> you can start with your kids zutesmog
Jan 25 11:02:35 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: that's amazing. i'm creating a competitor to SI, featuring more dogs-arse related measurements
Jan 25 11:02:45 <MohammadAG> so in three generations, they'll be using K
Jan 25 11:02:51 <zutesmog> I have and they will pull me up on everything.
Jan 25 11:02:55 * alterego thinks it'll be one of those days. even tmo looks boring
Jan 25 11:03:04 <BCMM> the unit of length will be the average distance between a greyhound's arse and the ground
Jan 25 11:03:09 <MohammadAG> of course, in three generations they'll find a way to go lower than 0K, and we'll be idiots
Jan 25 11:03:24 <alterego> BCMM: horse actually :D
Jan 25 11:03:39 <BCMM> alterego: which?
Jan 25 11:03:39 <zutesmog> but then you will have popped into an alternate universe.
Jan 25 11:03:45 <alterego> MohammadAG: scientifically impossible, it's absolute vacuum.
Jan 25 11:04:01 <MohammadAG> alterego, they'll find a way around that :P
Jan 25 11:04:14 <alterego> BCMM: imperial units of length, some came from measuring horses.
Jan 25 11:04:17 <MohammadAG> (And I know my physics, but do you know your sarcasm?)
Jan 25 11:04:22 <BCMM> alterego: absolute vacuum?
Jan 25 11:04:33 <MohammadAG> at 0K atoms can't move
Jan 25 11:04:36 <BCMM> alterego: did they? i know imperial units of power did
Jan 25 11:04:49 <alterego> BCMM: yeah, hands or something
Jan 25 11:05:01 <alterego> I think a furlong too ..
Jan 25 11:05:02 <BCMM> alterego: definition of a "horsepower" is something like 150% of the power provided by a mine-pony
Jan 25 11:05:22 <MohammadAG> Ponies!
Jan 25 11:05:33 <alterego> Yeah, hp was invented by a marketting firm trying to sell cars over horses :)
Jan 25 11:05:43 <BCMM> alterego: (as determined by G.P.E.=mgh and looking at the loads they carry up from the mine)
Jan 25 11:05:48 <zutesmog> should have been pony power!
Jan 25 11:06:03 <BCMM> * a totally invented factor for how much more power a horse has
Jan 25 11:06:07 <MohammadAG> zutesmog, that's the power provided by a unicorn
Jan 25 11:06:11 <alterego> BCMM: really? I just thoyught the arranged a tug-of-war between cars and horses
Jan 25 11:06:26 <zutesmog> or a sparkly pony with fairy wings
Jan 25 11:07:01 <BCMM> (i don't mean definition, btw - i mean original measurements it's based on)
Jan 25 11:07:46 <SpeedEvil> alterego: Actually, no.
Jan 25 11:08:03 <SpeedEvil> alterego: It was developed by stationary steam engine makers. Way before cars.
Jan 25 11:08:11 * SpeedEvil hits alterego with a walking beam.
Jan 25 11:08:40 <alterego> SpeedEvil: yeah, I actually had a feeling it was steam power that bought the measurement in.
Jan 25 11:09:11 * alterego contemplates how he can get join tables to work with QSqlTableModel's
Jan 25 11:09:29 <MohammadAG> alterego, paypal?
Jan 25 11:09:41 <alterego> MohammadAG: what?
Jan 25 11:10:07 <alterego> MohammadAG: still have 0 donations :)
Jan 25 11:10:18 <MohammadAG> for the paypal app?
Jan 25 11:10:38 <alterego> MohammadAG: no, columbus.
Jan 25 11:11:46 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf p62 cell spec, p64 >>(4) Long term storage
Jan 25 11:11:48 <DocScrutinizer> : -20 ～ +35℃ within 90 days (Shipped conditions)<<  p65 >>6 Operating Temperature (Charge) 0～+45 ℃<<  >>2 Operating Temperature (Discharge) -20～+60 ℃<<  Also see p69 (1) storage. >>... Storage in unsuitable condition (temperature, humidity, etc.) may reduce initial performance ...<<
Jan 25 11:12:03 <alterego> I'm not sure our paypal app is going to be secure enough to warrant making it :/
Jan 25 11:13:04 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: it's for sure no good idea to store a battery at limits of allowable storing conditions and far outside of allowable operation conditions
Jan 25 11:13:13 <cos^> is there something wrong with vcs.maemo.org's certificates? try git clone https://vcs.maemo.org/git/mardrone
Jan 25 11:13:26 <cos^> at least i get error: server certificate verification failed. CAfile: /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt CRLfile: none while accessing https://vcs.maemo.org/git/mardrone/info/refs
Jan 25 11:13:53 <MohammadAG> alterego, keep in mind the community isn't smart enough to change paypal addresses
Jan 25 11:14:08 <MohammadAG> And the part of it which is, would only do it as a PoC
Jan 25 11:14:12 <DocScrutinizer> also very remarkable: >>Do not storage the battery as fully charge state.<<
Jan 25 11:14:15 <RobbieThe1st> So, it's rated for -20C. This further proves my point that storing it in a residential freezer(inside a bag) is safe
Jan 25 11:14:43 <SpeedEvil> Speaking personally - I strore all my li-ions in the freezer.
Jan 25 11:14:49 <alterego> MohammadAG: It's something that needs to be properly thought out, and DocScrutinizer ripped the idea appart yesterdat :)
Jan 25 11:14:57 <RobbieThe1st> Admittedly, what happened to one of mine(leaving it at -25C, outside) wasn't optimal... but it still worked. Which is good.
Jan 25 11:14:58 <SpeedEvil> They have very, very little (measured) degradation when I do this.
Jan 25 11:15:42 <MohammadAG> alterego, just make it closed source
Jan 25 11:15:47 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: BS, see my comment last posts
Jan 25 11:16:11 <MohammadAG> encrypt the binary
Jan 25 11:16:17 <RobbieThe1st> 0C is at the limits of storable condition?
Jan 25 11:16:20 <MohammadAG> then load it through another encrypted binary
Jan 25 11:16:29 <RobbieThe1st> I thought it was about the middle...
Jan 25 11:16:30 <alterego> MohammadAG: that's a possibility, but nothing is fool proof.
Jan 25 11:16:33 <SpeedEvil> RobbieThe1st: that's at the liits for charging.
Jan 25 11:16:38 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: it's "rated" for 90days @ -20°C, where the damage done to cell is 'only' some 20%
Jan 25 11:17:08 <MohammadAG> alterego, then how does the paypal app on the iPhone work?
Jan 25 11:17:11 <RobbieThe1st> SpeedEvil: According to the PDF, it's -20c for long-term storage
Jan 25 11:17:39 <RobbieThe1st> DocScrutinizer: Real-world tests say different.
Jan 25 11:17:48 <DocScrutinizer> uhuh
Jan 25 11:18:09 <kerio> i want a battery that works at 0K
Jan 25 11:18:43 <SpeedEvil> I actually do want a rechargable battery that is safe for 140C.
Jan 25 11:18:45 <MohammadAG> kerio, here, have mine
Jan 25 11:18:48 <RobbieThe1st> I think leaving a battery for over a year and still having quite a bit of charge left over is good enough.
Jan 25 11:18:51 <BCMM> chemistry doesn't work at 0K.
Jan 25 11:19:10 <BCMM> (no collisions == reactions basically do no occur)
Jan 25 11:19:28 <kerio> MohammadAG: yay
Jan 25 11:19:37 <kerio> is it safe at 15000K too?
Jan 25 11:20:18 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: sure - go ahead. Store your cells at abs min temp allowed for 90 days. Drive always at exact abs max alcohol level allowed. always smoke exactly the number of cigarettes that statistically shorten your live no more than 10 years
Jan 25 11:20:33 <alterego> MohammadAG: I'll spend some time on it this weekend :)
Jan 25 11:20:52 <MohammadAG> kerio, yeah sure
Jan 25 11:20:53 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: WTF?? ""aving quite a bit of charge left over is good enough"" ?
Jan 25 11:20:54 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://pastebin.com/2vhb9uF8
Jan 25 11:21:06 <MohammadAG> alterego, :)
Jan 25 11:21:07 <RobbieThe1st> DocScrutinizer: Do you have any proof that storing it at 40F is less dangerous than 32F?
Jan 25 11:21:14 <kerio> MohammadAG: is it infinite?
Jan 25 11:21:16 <GNUtoo|laptop> is there a header?
Jan 25 11:21:27 <MohammadAG> kerio, more infinite than the eye can see
Jan 25 11:21:51 <alterego> shower, bbiab
Jan 25 11:22:08 <MohammadAG> kerio, you just got mindraped
Jan 25 11:22:09 <RobbieThe1st> DocScrutinizer: I grabbed the battery out of the unheated section of our shop/garage. Put it in a phone. Turned it on, and it showed maximum battery bars.
Jan 25 11:22:36 <DocScrutinizer> meh, sorry. This discussion gets about as annoying as has been the argueing with Andy about "why do we need OVP? USB chargers are rated @max 6V and this chip has a limit of 6.5V where it emits smoke""
Jan 25 11:22:46 <RobbieThe1st> This was after at least 2 years of not being charged, and being stored in the freezer for a year.
Jan 25 11:22:46 <kerio> MohammadAG: but... i can't see the energy in my battery with my eyes...
Jan 25 11:23:07 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: that's absolutely irrelevant
Jan 25 11:23:11 <alterego> kerio: multimeter
Jan 25 11:23:19 <DocScrutinizer> and I really CBA to explain to you why
Jan 25 11:23:22 * alterego wanders off.
Jan 25 11:23:24 <GNUtoo|laptop> jacekowski, ^^^ ( http://pastebin.com/2vhb9uF8 )
Jan 25 11:23:39 <RobbieThe1st> What it means is that: 1. It hasn't self-discharged. 2. It hasn't shorted.
Jan 25 11:24:04 <RobbieThe1st> In addition, SpeedEvil puts them in his freezer without issue.
Jan 25 11:24:31 <RobbieThe1st> And he says that they have very little measured degradation.
Jan 25 11:24:49 * DocScrutinizer picks out a 2year old completely sucked empty alkaline from his waste box and probes voltage - ""see, it still has 1.45V""
Jan 25 11:25:49 <RobbieThe1st> But, in this case, we are running a load off it - so it's not just phantom charge. I could, I suppose, do some tests to it..
Jan 25 11:26:10 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: go to matsuhita and tell them you know how they canimprove their cells, with ZERO effort, you'll tell them if they pay you say $20k
Jan 25 11:26:56 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: ekhm
Jan 25 11:27:06 <DocScrutinizer> I bet they are pleased to hear all their tests they did to do proper specifications were just BS, and you were better with your garage and freezer
Jan 25 11:27:16 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: your secondary image can only be 110kb long
Jan 25 11:27:18 <RobbieThe1st> I'm not saying anything of the sort. All I'm saying is that it appears to work, I'm going to do it, and I can't see any proof that it's not working.
Jan 25 11:27:25 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah ok too bad
Jan 25 11:27:31 <RobbieThe1st> You seem to forget that the manual itself agrees with me :\
Jan 25 11:27:37 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'm obligated to go barebox instead of uboot then
Jan 25 11:27:40 <RobbieThe1st> Their tests say it's fine.
Jan 25 11:27:52 <GNUtoo|laptop> or could uboot fit in 110k?
Jan 25 11:27:56 <RobbieThe1st> Of course, we don't know what the optimum temperature(within that range) is.
Jan 25 11:27:59 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: nope
Jan 25 11:28:01 <GNUtoo|laptop> with USB console
Jan 25 11:28:02 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 11:28:06 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: uboot is almost twice that size
Jan 25 11:28:07 <RobbieThe1st> But it's probably near the low end.
Jan 25 11:28:12 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: with nothing on
Jan 25 11:28:12 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: please stop telling BS! I explained to you in epic lemgth that the spec in manual is for NINETY DAYS
Jan 25 11:28:24 <GNUtoo|laptop> barebox is a lot smaller
Jan 25 11:28:35 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: but it's not working, isn't it?
Jan 25 11:28:36 <DocScrutinizer> and they even tolerate degradation of cell chemistry and capacity by doing this
Jan 25 11:28:42 <GNUtoo|laptop> I didn't try
Jan 25 11:28:44 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'll try
Jan 25 11:28:50 <GNUtoo|laptop> but the issue is the following:
Jan 25 11:28:52 <RobbieThe1st> So, what proof do -you- have that whatever temperature you like is better than 0C?
Jan 25 11:28:54 <GNUtoo|laptop> how can I know it works
Jan 25 11:28:55 <DocScrutinizer> and you claim it's the optimum to store LiIon
Jan 25 11:29:05 <GNUtoo|laptop> maybe blink the led?
Jan 25 11:29:26 <DocScrutinizer> MEH, now he's suddenly at 0°C
Jan 25 11:29:51 <DocScrutinizer> while a minute ago he's been talking about -20 and evem -10F whatever that is
Jan 25 11:30:04 <DocScrutinizer> sorry that's just too boring
Jan 25 11:30:06 <RobbieThe1st> -10F = -25C. That's the lowest I've ever had it.
Jan 25 11:30:11 <frals> -10f = -23c
Jan 25 11:30:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> http://pastebin.com/2zaRVcM0
Jan 25 11:30:27 <RobbieThe1st> Also, if you look up, for several pages I've been trying to state "residential freezer"
Jan 25 11:30:39 <RobbieThe1st> which is going to be around 0C. or 32F.
Jan 25 11:30:58 <RobbieThe1st> But you wouldn't listen.
Jan 25 11:31:07 <frals> arent freezers usually below 0C?
Jan 25 11:31:10 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: you can stop it, I'm leaving. It's really too pointless a "discussion"
Jan 25 11:31:40 <RobbieThe1st> *sigh*.
Jan 25 11:32:49 <RobbieThe1st> Oh. Maby you're right. Perhaps some are colder.
Jan 25 11:35:21 <GNUtoo|laptop> jacekowski, http://pastebin.com/2zaRVcM0
Jan 25 11:35:43 <eichi> hello. i have a problem with the maemo5 build in email client. sometimes, i'm forced to use gprs. now, if i try to send some data with email, I get an "send failed" error. i'm very shure, this is just some kind of timeout. but there is no option for that
Jan 25 11:35:51 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: yes
Jan 25 11:35:58 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: you need correct header for it to work
Jan 25 11:36:04 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 11:36:05 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: otherwise xloader will not load it
Jan 25 11:36:11 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah ok nice
Jan 25 11:36:28 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: you have 4 byte jump executed in ARM mode
Jan 25 11:36:30 <GNUtoo|laptop> so I look for info on the classic x-loader
Jan 25 11:36:32 <frals> eichi: have you configured the correct outgoing server for your gprs?
Jan 25 11:36:35 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: no
Jan 25 11:36:40 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: nokia xloader is different
Jan 25 11:36:41 <GNUtoo|laptop> and it would apply to nokia?
Jan 25 11:36:43 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah ok
Jan 25 11:36:44 <jacekowski> no
Jan 25 11:36:51 <jacekowski> you need 4 bytes for jump in arm mode
Jan 25 11:37:00 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 11:37:19 <jacekowski> and then NOLOScnd
Jan 25 11:37:34 <jacekowski> and xloader is looking for that NOLOScnd
Jan 25 11:38:01 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok I see that
Jan 25 11:38:06 <GNUtoo|laptop> in ../secondary-RX-51,2217,2218,2219,2220,2120-1.4.14.9+0m5
Jan 25 11:38:13 <eichi> frals: is there a seperate gprs config? with umts, it works fine
Jan 25 11:38:30 <frals> depends on your service provider what smtp you can use
Jan 25 11:39:02 <eichi> but not depends on umts vs. gprs?
Jan 25 11:39:09 <frals> shouldnt no
Jan 25 11:39:22 <eichi> one moment, try to send a empty mail
Jan 25 11:39:46 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: however, the spec in the manual is likely to say 90 days, without specifying - as is likely - the fact that that's at the upper limit only.
Jan 25 11:39:46 <GNUtoo|laptop> jacekowski, I copy the 4 bytes from ../secondary-RX-51,2217,2218,2219,2220,2120-1.4.14.9+0m5 ?
Jan 25 11:40:49 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: no
Jan 25 11:41:24 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: these 4 bytes are just jump to just after NOLOScnd
Jan 25 11:41:45 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: that's no limit of any kind, that's simply the test duration, and cell chemistry won't suffer >xx% loss of max capacity, and not >xy increase in impedance etc, during these 90 days
Jan 25 11:42:52 <DocScrutinizer> it however doesn't imply that after 160 days the degrading eeffects are exactly 2 times as much - more likely they are way higher
Jan 25 11:43:15 <DocScrutinizer> 180*
Jan 25 11:43:34 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: no - however it doesn't imply that the upper and lower limits are the same, or for the same reasons.
Jan 25 11:44:11 <DocScrutinizer> are the same as what? upper for sure is not same as lower
Jan 25 11:44:12 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: For example, the upper limit may be for degradation reasons, and the lower one may be due to the electrolyte freezing being undesirable. Which will not occur at -20C.
Jan 25 11:45:48 <GNUtoo|laptop> but the address would be the same, right?
Jan 25 11:46:37 <GNUtoo|laptop> else I could do it manually, "compiling with my head" the b address thing but I wouldn't know at which address to branch
Jan 25 11:47:14 <GNUtoo|laptop> basically it works like this right: bootrom->copy xloader in the already-initialized 64k ram
Jan 25 11:47:17 <DocScrutinizer> meh, I really will stop now agruaing about silly stupid statements like "store your battery at -20°C, it's optimum and just the limit of MAX temp range as in datasheet" - every child knows you should stay away from limits, and sweet spot never is at limits
Jan 25 11:47:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> and execute it
Jan 25 11:47:23 <GNUtoo|laptop> but then?
Jan 25 11:47:32 <GNUtoo|laptop> I should read xloader sources
Jan 25 11:48:13 * TriztN900 hates when widgets disappear by itself
Jan 25 11:48:15 <DocScrutinizer> and I need no evidence for this common sense
Jan 25 11:53:18 <GNUtoo|laptop> because NAND isn't memory mapped
Jan 25 11:53:36 <GNUtoo|laptop> it should have code for reading nand
Jan 25 11:54:12 <fellu> hmm
Jan 25 11:54:23 <GNUtoo|laptop> s/it/so it/
Jan 25 11:54:23 <infobot> GNUtoo|laptop meant: so it should have code for reading nand
Jan 25 11:54:41 <fellu> yea
Jan 25 11:58:42 <eichi> frals: realy seems, that i cant send smtp via gprs. even a empty mail fails -.-
Jan 25 12:01:55 <SpeedEvil> most providers will block port 25.
Jan 25 12:17:29 <SpeedEvil> Oooh - neat! http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/legos/legos.html
Jan 25 12:17:35 * SpeedEvil wonders if he has enough lego
Jan 25 12:20:16 <Arkenoi> oops. mycontacts eats up to 85Mb vm
Jan 25 12:20:35 <SpeedEvil> You don't care about VM
Jan 25 12:20:40 <SpeedEvil> (generally)
Jan 25 12:20:55 <SpeedEvil> http://www.selenic.com/smem/
Jan 25 12:21:11 <SpeedEvil> Shows unique memory per-process, and how much shared.
Jan 25 12:21:23 <SpeedEvil> RSS overstates this - for example - RSS includes libc.
Jan 25 12:21:59 <SpeedEvil> But libc is multiply mapped by all the processes in the system, so if it's a couple of meg - it's only reasonable to apportion 20K to each process if there are 100 running.
Jan 25 12:24:24 <Arkenoi> anyways i feel my phone is much slower with mycontacts, it's a shame as it is extremely useful thing
Jan 25 12:28:50 <RST38h> Arkanoid: Found the reason for the slowdown?
Jan 25 12:32:53 <MohammadAG> RST38h, it's closed source :p
Jan 25 12:36:06 <ZogG> lardman, ping
Jan 25 12:36:43 <lardman> ZogG: pong
Jan 25 12:37:31 <alterego> Adding the last major v1 feature for Columbus :)
Jan 25 12:42:04 <alterego> I'm thinking of putting a donations table up on the website (when I make it).
Jan 25 12:42:20 <alterego> So people can see how generous, or not, others' are.
Jan 25 12:43:31 <Arkenoi> RST38h, appears that if i disable mycontacts, it behaves much better
Jan 25 12:44:06 <RST38h> Arkenoi: Kill the mycontacts and forget about them then
Jan 25 12:44:21 <RST38h> Arkenoi: Checked their memory footprint with HTOP?
Jan 25 12:44:33 <ZogG> alterego it would be nice to have donations page on communities pages with list of apps and links for donations so who ever wants can choose app and dev in one place i think
Jan 25 12:45:03 <alterego> ZogG: this is just an app specific highscore table.
Jan 25 12:45:30 <alterego> A community page would be cool, we could knock one up on the wiki
Jan 25 12:46:10 <ZogG> yeah just a table. app | dev |donation link. and if it's possible |donated
Jan 25 12:47:02 <Arkenoi> only 10% of vsz is shared
Jan 25 12:55:32 <Arkenoi> tv-b-gone app, great, i can forget about having the dongle with me and replacing batteries in it
Jan 25 12:58:58 <SpeedEvil> The n900 IR sucs though.
Jan 25 12:59:12 <Arkenoi> yes
Jan 25 12:59:39 <SpeedEvil> Well - actually it blows softly.
Jan 25 12:59:49 <SpeedEvil> It can't suck - that's another problem
Jan 25 12:59:51 <Arkenoi> still cannot understand what prevents pda and smartphone vendors from installing really powerful IR
Jan 25 12:59:57 <SpeedEvil> Arkenoi: $
Jan 25 13:00:06 <Arkenoi> SpeedEvil, it is dirt cheap
Jan 25 13:00:10 <SpeedEvil> Sure.
Jan 25 13:00:22 <ShadowJK> I wonder if the ir is weak or if the modulation is just off
Jan 25 13:00:25 <SpeedEvil> $.1 extra means that they don't have $.1*500K
Jan 25 13:00:31 <SpeedEvil> Which isn't too trivial
Jan 25 13:00:38 <Arkenoi> and lose vital functionality
Jan 25 13:01:02 <Arkenoi> just add $.1 to the rpice
Jan 25 13:01:04 <Arkenoi> price
Jan 25 13:01:12 <SpeedEvil> $.25 or so.
Jan 25 13:01:53 <SpeedEvil> And those 'just one more' features add up, and soon you find that you have a 4Kg phone costing $18000.
Jan 25 13:14:08 <yacc> Arkenoi, it's so VITAL that they don't even provide any software to use by default, right?
Jan 25 13:14:32 <yacc> Arkenoi, what is VITAL to you is not necessary what is VITAL to pointy haired weirdos ;)
Jan 25 13:35:45 <Termana> Happy Australia Day to any fellow Australians!
Jan 25 13:37:04 <MohammadAG> and no Happy Australia day for the rest of us?
Jan 25 13:37:06 <MohammadAG> racist!
Jan 25 13:40:08 <Termana> MohammadAG, No, because everyone else knows that it really should be Happy Invasion Day
Jan 25 13:40:54 <Arkenoi> New latitude app. Still no option to turn GPS on for a brief period of time
Jan 25 13:48:34 <frals> Arkenoi: for most consumers IR isn't "vital functionality"
Jan 25 13:52:04 <alterego> What's "latitude app" ?
Jan 25 13:53:01 <alterego> Arkenoi: why do you want to have gps on for a brief period?
Jan 25 13:55:06 <lardman> alterego: Google Latitude
Jan 25 13:55:18 <alterego> Oh
Jan 25 13:55:28 <lardman> that's the name of the service, not a command to use a search engine ;)
Jan 25 13:55:41 <Arkenoi> alterego, because it is too battery consuming, and small lag or not quite accurate position on ok. Actually i'd prefer using cell towers for positioning and enabling GPS only if the position was obviously changed.
Jan 25 13:55:45 <alterego> Yeah, I vaguely remember that
Jan 25 13:56:04 <alterego> Arkenoi: to do what?
Jan 25 13:56:15 <Arkenoi> alterego, to share it
Jan 25 13:56:40 <alterego> Oh, well, why not just enable gps when you want to share position?
Jan 25 13:56:51 <alterego> Like how it works for facebook
Jan 25 13:57:34 <marnanel> What does it mean if I can compile a program in x86 scratchbox, but when I try to do so in armel scratchbox, it complains about assembler instructions and falls over like this? http://pastebin.com/r9WBVDV3 (It can compile some code, fwiw. But this bit gives it some trouble.)
Jan 25 13:58:08 <lcuk> marnanel, make clean?
Jan 25 13:58:35 <lcuk> i get similar when I flip between targets and forget to clean the source
Jan 25 13:58:41 <BCMM_> marnanel: make clean; it may be getting confused by x86 .o files
Jan 25 13:59:19 * lcuk cheers for new rfk also
Jan 25 13:59:47 <BCMM_> i dunno if it's the right thing to do, but i've set up my qt project with a symlinked src directory so i don't waste time on make clean
Jan 25 14:00:04 <marnanel> lcuk, BCMM_: oh duh.  thanks, I thought I was going crazy.
Jan 25 14:01:12 <Arkenoi> alterego, because i want it to stay in my pocket and sharing my position continuously
Jan 25 14:01:24 <BCMM_> i.e. program-arm/src is symlinked to program-x86/src, and binaries live in program-x86/ and program-arm/ rather than poluting the source directory with platform-specific binaries
Jan 25 14:01:35 <BCMM_> is there a nicer way to do that?
Jan 25 14:01:40 <marnanel> yeah, distclean fixed it
Jan 25 14:01:42 <marnanel> thanks folks
Jan 25 14:02:45 <BCMM_> having seperate directories means not rebulding the entirity of the x86 version every time you test it on the device
Jan 25 14:04:30 <alterego> Arkenoi: and sharing with what service?
Jan 25 14:04:52 <Arkenoi> alterego, google latitude
Jan 25 14:05:04 <alterego> Right,
Jan 25 14:05:11 <alterego> Well, why don't you write an app to do it?
Jan 25 14:05:19 <alterego> Qt Mobility APIs are quite easy to use.
Jan 25 14:05:26 <alterego> And linking with a webservice is easy enough
Jan 25 14:07:42 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> oh the horrors of messing with powervr.ini.....
Jan 25 14:08:11 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> taken long enough to get up and running again!
Jan 25 14:09:07 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> hildon definitely seems more sluggish since the reflash
Jan 25 14:11:45 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> does anyone know how to re-enable shortcut keys? ctrl+shift+x is no longer working!
Jan 25 14:12:06 <Jaffa> [DrkGUNMAN-N900]: Ah, the magical "I'll 'turn on' PowerVR and it'll be better" switch. Why are Nokia so stupid as to leave it off, eh?!
Jan 25 14:12:09 * Jaffa asks MohammadAG...
Jan 25 14:13:29 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> I was due a reflash anyway :) thought i'd have a look at it.
Jan 25 14:15:36 <merlin1991> [DrkGUNMAN-N900], gconf-schemas --register hildon-desktop-keys.schemas + reboot should bring back the default shortcuts
Jan 25 14:16:15 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> thank you merlin1991
Jan 25 14:22:19 <alterego> Bloody apt-worker getting in the way of my development as usual ..
Jan 25 14:30:12 <MohammadAG> muhaha, patched vumeter to make the keyboard a VU
Jan 25 14:30:21 <MohammadAG> thanks merlin1991 o
Jan 25 14:30:47 <merlin1991> ?
Jan 25 14:32:51 <alterego> MohammadAG: did a proper line count just now, columbus + libcolumbus + librxsupport + columbus-plugins-core = 11630 lines.
Jan 25 14:33:14 <alterego> And that's just source files, there's a little more with .desktop files debian packaging stuff etc, etc.
Jan 25 14:39:19 <BCMM_> alterego: what do you use for line-counting, btw?
Jan 25 14:39:46 <BCMM_> i've seen something cleverer than wc, but can't recall its name
Jan 25 14:40:12 <BCMM_> (i think it did things like ignore blank lines and count comments seperately and so on)
Jan 25 14:42:04 <alterego> BCMM_: find dir1 dir2 dir3 -name '*.cpp' -or -name '*.h' | xargs wc -l
Jan 25 14:51:50 <BCMM_> oh, ok.
Jan 25 14:51:52 <BCMM_> thanks
Jan 25 14:52:15 <edheldil> BCMM:  you can leave out comments with grep
Jan 25 14:52:40 <MohammadAG> shitty sony handycam
Jan 25 14:52:50 <MohammadAG> I want the N8 back already :/
Jan 25 14:55:27 <GNUtoo|laptop> jacekowski, for the 4 byted does it do that:
Jan 25 14:55:33 <GNUtoo|laptop> bootrom
Jan 25 14:55:41 <GNUtoo|laptop> read xloader from flash
Jan 25 14:55:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> put it in the 64k of ram
Jan 25 14:55:59 <GNUtoo|laptop> jump there
Jan 25 14:56:05 <GNUtoo|laptop> so now xloader has control
Jan 25 14:56:16 <GNUtoo|laptop> xloader loads nolo or something else from flash
Jan 25 14:56:27 <GNUtoo|laptop> put it somewhere(where?)
Jan 25 14:56:34 <GNUtoo|laptop> and read the instruction
Jan 25 14:56:42 <GNUtoo|laptop> that is 32bit = 4 bytes
Jan 25 14:56:49 <GNUtoo|laptop> that contains a jump
Jan 25 14:56:58 <GNUtoo|laptop> like b address
Jan 25 14:57:22 <GNUtoo|laptop> that goes to where nolo or the something else is extracted?
Jan 25 14:57:27 <GNUtoo|laptop> s/?//
Jan 25 14:57:27 <infobot> GNUtoo|laptop meant: that goes to where nolo or the something else is extracted
Jan 25 14:57:36 <GNUtoo|laptop> + an offset
Jan 25 14:58:02 <GNUtoo|laptop> I bet I'm wrong somewhere
Jan 25 14:58:13 <GNUtoo|laptop> because xload must initialize the ram, right?
Jan 25 14:58:32 <GNUtoo|laptop> because 64k is not enough for nolo
Jan 25 14:58:53 <GNUtoo|laptop> that is to say, nolo can't be copied in the 64k
Jan 25 14:59:01 <GNUtoo|laptop> hmmm
Jan 25 14:59:08 <GNUtoo|laptop> I'm surely missing something
Jan 25 15:01:44 <RST38bis> yawn
Jan 25 15:04:02 <GNUtoo|laptop> also if NAND is not memory mapped, how can the CPU run uboot from it on other devices?
Jan 25 15:04:48 <SpeedEvil> It can't.
Jan 25 15:05:06 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah, so how does it work
Jan 25 15:05:15 <GNUtoo|laptop> you have NOR+NAND on other devices?
Jan 25 15:05:18 <SpeedEvil> The stepping-stone loader on the CPU onboard ROM loads it and executes it.
Jan 25 15:05:26 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah ok
Jan 25 15:06:16 <GNUtoo|laptop> so cpu like imx31 should have a bootrom
Jan 25 15:06:22 <GNUtoo|laptop> interesting...
Jan 25 15:07:14 <SpeedEvil> There is a 48k? ROM inside the omap
Jan 25 15:12:16 <MohammadAG> isn't that what allows coldflashing?
Jan 25 15:12:44 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Jan 25 15:26:24 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: nope
Jan 25 15:26:33 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: rom loads nokia xloader
Jan 25 15:27:48 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: omap rom starts at 0x0 and then it reads nannd
Jan 25 15:28:09 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: and it's reading xloader there with proper headers ( signatures and stuff )
Jan 25 15:28:55 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: and xloader is loaded at 0x40208000
Jan 25 15:29:01 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 15:29:11 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: than xloader loads nolo from nand
Jan 25 15:29:24 <jacekowski> GNUtoo|laptop: verifies if it has correct magic ( NOLOScnd )
Jan 25 15:29:52 <jacekowski> and if it has just jumps to 0x8040000
Jan 25 15:30:23 <GNUtoo|laptop> ok
Jan 25 15:30:32 <GNUtoo|laptop> so what are the stuff that is before NOLOScnd
Jan 25 15:30:46 <jacekowski> it's just a jump
Jan 25 15:30:59 <GNUtoo|laptop> to 0x8040000
Jan 25 15:31:01 <jacekowski> no
Jan 25 15:31:13 <GNUtoo|laptop> ahhh
Jan 25 15:31:15 <GNUtoo|laptop> I get it
Jan 25 15:31:19 <GNUtoo|laptop> basically
Jan 25 15:31:35 <jacekowski> NOLOScnd is at 0x8040004
Jan 25 15:31:36 <GNUtoo|laptop> xload jumps to 0x8040000
Jan 25 15:31:51 <GNUtoo|laptop> but  if it started with NOLOScnd
Jan 25 15:31:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> it wouldn't be able to execute the content
Jan 25 15:31:59 <GNUtoo|laptop> so....
Jan 25 15:32:08 <jacekowski> basicaly it's just that there is only one instruction before nolo magic
Jan 25 15:32:16 <jacekowski> so unless you want to fuck yourself up
Jan 25 15:32:22 <jacekowski> you have to jump to place where you have more space
Jan 25 15:32:24 <jacekowski> after that magic
Jan 25 15:32:38 <GNUtoo|laptop> it's just for skipping the magic right?
Jan 25 15:33:29 <GNUtoo|laptop> so it doesn't execute the magic
Jan 25 15:36:04 <jacekowski> yes
Jan 25 15:51:08 <SpeedEvil> Woo - cheapness.
Jan 25 15:51:17 <SpeedEvil> T-mobiles 'blackberry' SIM works.
Jan 25 15:51:29 <SpeedEvil> 10 quid topup for 6 months 'free' internet.
Jan 25 15:51:44 <SpeedEvil> 500M/mo only - but, it's a backup SIM.
Jan 25 15:51:48 <SpeedEvil> (uk)
Jan 25 15:52:12 <SpeedEvil> Free SIM + 10 quid topup, and it just works.
Jan 25 15:53:46 <nidO> rly?
Jan 25 15:54:15 <nidO> damn, I missed a trick there then, recently got a 3 sim for my tablet, that only gives me like 100MB free when I top it up :(
Jan 25 15:55:05 <psycho_oreos> isn't 3 a subsidiary of vodaphone over there?
Jan 25 15:56:56 <kerio> 3 here gives you 3gb for 5€/month
Jan 25 15:57:02 <kerio> well, 100mb/day for 5€/month
Jan 25 15:58:38 <SpeedEvil> nidO: The voice rates are pretty bad.
Jan 25 15:58:46 <SpeedEvil> nidO: But I rarely make calls.
Jan 25 15:59:05 <nidO> yeah doesnt concern me, the sim in my tablet's for data only :P
Jan 25 15:59:12 <nidO> shame I didnt spot that deal :(
Jan 25 15:59:46 <SpeedEvil> Also - if you buy before FEb - you can get a PAYG SIM - and add the 20 quid 6 month internet booster, with a 1G cap
Jan 25 16:03:27 <nidO> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=927908 is quite astonishing
Jan 25 16:23:40 <kerio> haha
Jan 25 16:23:54 <kerio> "Because of a factory problem, there was no N900 in the box"
Jan 25 16:24:05 <MohammadAG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM7ltX3Wtok I hate sony handycams (also, video blocked in Germany by youtube)
Jan 25 16:24:18 <MohammadAG> need a way to find it more interesting, it's kinda boring right now
Jan 25 16:24:59 <SpeedEvil> kerio: Damn - I need to use that line for ebay.
Jan 25 16:25:18 <MohammadAG> I'd skip the first acoustic part
Jan 25 16:44:39 <merlin1991> nice MohammadAG :)
Jan 25 17:11:48 <alterego> kerio: you'd think they'd notice from the weight...
Jan 25 17:18:14 <chem|st> so now i need to contact that technical labratory to send my device back to me... insurance pays 220eur
Jan 25 17:18:46 <chem|st> +o
Jan 25 17:29:48 <pupnik> Genial:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBT4UhT_nIA  Staatsverschuldung mal einfach erklärt
Jan 25 17:29:50 <MohammadAG> hah, keyboardless N9-01 rumor
Jan 25 17:30:03 <pupnik> devboard+screen running meego...
Jan 25 17:30:20 <pupnik> the bloggers are getting antsy at nokia
Jan 25 17:39:23 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: that thing i asked you to test
Jan 25 17:39:34 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: after testing it on emu
Jan 25 17:39:48 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: it looks like it's real nolo console
Jan 25 17:39:51 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: but on serial port
Jan 25 17:40:21 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, I guess there's no way to export that over USB?
Jan 25 17:40:30 <jacekowski> nope
Jan 25 17:40:37 <jacekowski> well, there is
Jan 25 17:40:39 <jacekowski> but not easyway
Jan 25 17:45:40 <GNUtoo|laptop> hmmm
Jan 25 17:45:55 <GNUtoo|laptop> I wonder what's the easiest led-debugging like thing
Jan 25 17:46:15 <GNUtoo|laptop> I bet having serial without soldering is difficult
Jan 25 17:47:39 <GNUtoo|laptop> maybe the vibrator
Jan 25 17:47:51 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, how easy?
Jan 25 17:59:12 <alterego> GNUtoo|laptop: not really, you just need to mould a connector that can sit under the battery.
Jan 25 17:59:37 <GNUtoo|laptop> yes the problem is that I've nothing to do that
Jan 25 17:59:43 <GNUtoo|laptop> maybe I could try like this:
Jan 25 17:59:48 <GNUtoo|laptop> I make a PCB
Jan 25 17:59:57 <GNUtoo|laptop> with soldered cables that ends with solder balls
Jan 25 18:00:01 <GNUtoo|laptop> ?
Jan 25 18:00:28 <alterego> Erm ..
Jan 25 18:01:38 <alterego> I'd just use some kind of glue or solidifying gel, make a mould that'll fit into the pay comfortably, then insert contact pins and cable.
Jan 25 18:01:56 <GNUtoo|laptop> ah good idea
Jan 25 18:02:24 <alterego> Test the process on an old handset first
Jan 25 18:02:37 <GNUtoo|laptop> I've an idea
Jan 25 18:03:21 <GNUtoo|laptop> I take an eraser
Jan 25 18:03:30 <alterego> I did a similar thing for an old Garmin handheld gps, used silicon liquid to stop the glue sticking to the pcb, then injected glue in with a heat glue gun.
Jan 25 18:03:32 <GNUtoo|laptop> and put cables etc...inside
Jan 25 18:04:07 <alterego> That may work, though erasers have a tendency to fall apart.
Jan 25 18:08:41 <alterego> bbl
Jan 25 18:28:22 <MohammadAG> it's quiet in here today
Jan 25 18:33:41 <blue_led_> @mohammad : switch to mhd
Jan 25 18:51:18 <gnutoo> alterego, I failed with eraser
Jan 25 18:51:29 <gnutoo> *it doesn't fall apart
Jan 25 18:51:42 <alterego> :)
Jan 25 18:52:03 <gnutoo> *the pin hole is exactly on top of the rx pin
Jan 25 18:52:13 <gnutoo> *it fits well
Jan 25 18:52:17 <gnutoo> but for an unknow reason
Jan 25 18:52:21 <gnutoo> I've no voltage
Jan 25 18:55:15 <gnutoo> enable serial console  : set
Jan 25 18:55:19 <gnutoo> and serial console is set
Jan 25 18:55:25 <gnutoo> in 0xFFFF
Jan 25 18:59:48 <gnutoo> I used that: http://www.cpkb.org/wiki/File:Nokia_n900_pinout.jpg
Jan 25 18:59:52 <gnutoo> I wonder if it's right
Jan 25 19:00:10 <gnutoo> because http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking doesn't match
Jan 25 19:03:40 <gnutoo> jacekowski, has serial right?
Jan 25 19:07:45 <franz__> uh, just curious, anyone here ever tried testing gnash on maemo?
Jan 25 19:18:47 <gnutoo> alterego, what's the exact reason of the 100k limit for the nolo partition?
Jan 25 19:22:36 <jacekowski> gnutoo: ?
Jan 25 19:22:50 <jacekowski> gnutoo: what is the problem?
Jan 25 19:23:28 <jacekowski> gnutoo: use nokia flasher
Jan 25 19:23:31 <gnutoo> jacekowski, I want a way to debug or see of the code work
Jan 25 19:23:40 <jacekowski> yeah
Jan 25 19:23:47 <jacekowski> do you have way of connecting to these pads?
Jan 25 19:23:53 <gnutoo> yes but I failed
Jan 25 19:24:04 <jacekowski> what are you using to connect to them
Jan 25 19:24:04 <gnutoo> I've some eraser cuted with a hole inside
Jan 25 19:24:13 <gnutoo> and a wire that go trough the hole
Jan 25 19:24:28 <gnutoo> I put a tape on all that
Jan 25 19:24:28 <jacekowski> and where does it go after that?
Jan 25 19:24:35 <gnutoo> I put the battery
Jan 25 19:24:47 <gnutoo> and mesure pin voltage between microsd slot and the wire
Jan 25 19:24:56 <gnutoo> microsd slot is ground
Jan 25 19:25:15 <gnutoo> I'll restart explaining from the beginning:
Jan 25 19:25:25 <gnutoo> *I've no way to findout if barebox works
Jan 25 19:25:25 <jacekowski> ehh
Jan 25 19:25:35 <jacekowski> but where is your cable going after that
Jan 25 19:25:40 <jacekowski> straight into rs232?
Jan 25 19:25:44 <jacekowski> or you have level shifter
Jan 25 19:25:48 <gnutoo> jacekowski, no, to DMM
Jan 25 19:26:00 <gnutoo> DMM say 0V
Jan 25 19:26:04 <jacekowski> and what do you expect to get
Jan 25 19:26:07 <jacekowski> that's correct
Jan 25 19:26:18 <gnutoo> 3.3V
Jan 25 19:26:22 <gnutoo> or something like that
Jan 25 19:26:42 <jacekowski> unless your barebox talks serial
Jan 25 19:26:48 <jacekowski> then you will get nothing
Jan 25 19:26:53 <gnutoo> I've 0v even with nolo
Jan 25 19:27:05 <gnutoo> with serial enabled(0xffff)
Jan 25 19:27:12 <jacekowski> use nokia flasher
Jan 25 19:27:16 <gnutoo> even under GNU/Linux with microcom
Jan 25 19:27:16 <jacekowski> not 0xffff
Jan 25 19:27:16 <gnutoo> ok
Jan 25 19:27:34 <jacekowski> and what sort of dmm you've got?
Jan 25 19:27:39 <gnutoo> a cheap one
Jan 25 19:27:42 <jacekowski> is it real dmm
Jan 25 19:27:44 <gnutoo> no-name
Jan 25 19:27:44 <jacekowski> or cheap one
Jan 25 19:27:45 <gnutoo> yes
Jan 25 19:27:50 <gnutoo> a real cheap one
Jan 25 19:27:53 <gnutoo> not home made
Jan 25 19:28:04 <gnutoo> it works etc...
Jan 25 19:28:11 <gnutoo> (the DMM)
Jan 25 19:28:25 <jacekowski> thing is that it's just pulsed DC there
Jan 25 19:28:30 <jacekowski> and it's 2.6V max
Jan 25 19:28:47 <gnutoo> ok
Jan 25 19:28:48 <jacekowski> so it goes to 2.6 for microseconds
Jan 25 19:28:53 <jacekowski> take a look at
Jan 25 19:28:54 <gnutoo> ahhh
Jan 25 19:29:13 <jacekowski> hmm
Jan 25 19:29:21 <jacekowski> i'm just reading what you said before
Jan 25 19:29:23 <jacekowski>  http://www.cpkb.org/wiki/File:Nokia_n900_pinout.jpg
Jan 25 19:29:24 <gnutoo> ok
Jan 25 19:29:28 <jacekowski> that pinout is for rapuyama
Jan 25 19:29:29 <gnutoo> is that correct?
Jan 25 19:29:36 <jacekowski> sort of
Jan 25 19:29:39 <gnutoo> rapuyama???
Jan 25 19:29:40 <jacekowski> if you want to talk to rapuyama
Jan 25 19:29:46 <jacekowski> and you don't want to talk to rapuyama
Jan 25 19:30:02 <alterego> Are we still talking about the pads under the batterY?
Jan 25 19:30:09 <gnutoo> yes
Jan 25 19:30:35 <jacekowski> you want to talk to main processor
Jan 25 19:30:39 <alterego> There are connections for serial (TTL), USB & rapuyamna?
Jan 25 19:30:43 <jacekowski> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking
Jan 25 19:30:44 <gnutoo> ahh that's for the baseband
Jan 25 19:31:05 <jacekowski> and what is on that port
Jan 25 19:31:06 <jacekowski> http://img36.imageshack.us/i/teki.png/
Jan 25 19:31:07 <jacekowski> is that
Jan 25 19:31:14 <jacekowski> which i measured myself btw
Jan 25 19:31:24 <gnutoo> ok
Jan 25 19:31:35 <gnutoo> I saw that http://www.cpkb.org/wiki/File:Nokia_n900_pinout.jpg and http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking didn't match
Jan 25 19:31:43 <gnutoo> that's why I wondered what to do
Jan 25 19:33:45 <jacekowski> and be carefull
Jan 25 19:33:49 <jacekowski> these pins are only 2.6V
Jan 25 19:33:55 <gnutoo> ok
Jan 25 19:34:01 <jacekowski> and injecting more into them will probably damage your phone
Jan 25 19:34:02 <gnutoo> max3232 can work with 2.6V?
Jan 25 19:34:09 <jacekowski> nope
Jan 25 19:34:18 <gnutoo> what can work with 2.6v?
Jan 25 19:34:25 <jacekowski> bc237
Jan 25 19:34:27 <jacekowski> iirc
Jan 25 19:34:37 <jacekowski> some mosfets can work as well
Jan 25 19:34:53 <gnutoo> ok
Jan 25 19:35:00 <jacekowski> but you need one with low gate capacitance
Jan 25 19:35:32 <MohammadAG> I thought no one knew what those pins were
Jan 25 19:35:58 <jacekowski> well, you don't read wiki often enough
Jan 25 19:36:55 <MohammadAG> of course I don't, wikis started having mediafire links
Jan 25 19:43:45 <gnutoo> btw if you don't use flasher nor 0xFFFF can you run a bigger nolo/uboot?
Jan 25 19:44:07 <gnutoo> like booting and acessing the NAND from GNU/Linux
Jan 25 19:45:07 <gnutoo> I wonder what to do
Jan 25 19:45:26 <gnutoo> in one hand there is serial which require going to the elctronic shop, is risky etc...
Jan 25 19:45:56 <gnutoo> in the other hand I've no idea on what's the best for an hello world led-blinking like stuff
Jan 25 19:46:33 <jacekowski> gnutoo: i never looked into that
Jan 25 19:46:43 <jacekowski> gnutoo: but it will require repartitioning nand at least
Jan 25 19:46:53 <gnutoo> ok
Jan 25 19:47:06 <gnutoo> maybe that's the best way
Jan 25 20:05:47 <jacekowski> but i'm not sure about xloader
Jan 25 20:05:54 <jacekowski> and xloader can't be changed
Jan 25 20:51:19 <mcepl> please, help ... suddenly (I don't think I did anything to deserve it) pulseaudio stopped starting claiming there is missing /etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf (which really isn't there). Any idea where I can find it and how it disappeared?
Jan 25 20:52:36 <ieatlint> you probably did do something to deserve it
Jan 25 20:53:18 <mcepl> OK, let's abstaining from blaming and tell, where should I find it, which package I should reinstall?
Jan 25 20:54:35 <ieatlint> one sec
Jan 25 20:54:57 <trumee> does anybody has experience of lxp wifi patches?
Jan 25 20:55:05 <ieatlint> http://tehinterweb.com/xpolicy.conf
Jan 25 20:55:41 <trumee> is it possible to patch the stock kernel with his patches, rather than using the power kernel?
Jan 25 20:56:11 <ieatlint> my dpkg says /etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf is not part of any package, so i can't tell you what to reinstall
Jan 25 20:56:20 <mcepl> thanks
Jan 25 20:56:24 <ieatlint> but try copying the xpolicy.conf from my phone (as linked)
Jan 25 20:56:33 <mcepl> trying
Jan 25 21:13:03 <mcepl> hmm, doesn't work anyway, even after restart. I am afraid I see visit at the Nokia shop in my near future.
Jan 25 21:13:44 <gnutoo> mcepl, maybe reflash?
Jan 25 21:15:21 <corecode> anybody else have problems with xmpp video chat and broken video?
Jan 25 21:16:25 <mcepl> gnutoo: yeah, how? Is there some HOWTO around?
Jan 25 21:16:59 <gnutoo> http://wiki.maemo.org/Flashing
Jan 25 21:17:10 <Sicelo> mcepl: ~flashing
Jan 25 21:17:21 <gnutoo> note that it will remove all what you installed all your data etc....
Jan 25 21:17:24 <Sicelo> ~flashing
Jan 25 21:17:25 <infobot> methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jan 25 21:17:42 <gnutoo> you will get a fresh OS like when you bought it
Jan 25 21:18:14 <thomasjfox> anyone here runs rockbox and has a bluetooth headset + root access on his n900? ;)
Jan 25 21:18:30 <gnutoo> rockbox on n900?
Jan 25 21:18:47 <wmarone> thomasjfox: I do
Jan 25 21:19:07 <gnutoo> hi DocScrutinizer do you have an idea on how to know if some code was executed(led blink etc...)
Jan 25 21:19:51 <thomasjfox> wmarone: Could you give the bluetooth headset support I wrote a quick shot? I would send you a new rockbox binary which should output debug information to the console once you press a button on the remote
Jan 25 21:20:09 <wmarone> remote?
Jan 25 21:20:14 <thomasjfox> wmarone: Ideally it should work out of the box
Jan 25 21:20:30 <thomasjfox> wmarone: Doesn't your bluetooth headset feature buttons?
Jan 25 21:20:43 <wmarone> volume and a power/hangup/answer button
Jan 25 21:21:08 <thomasjfox> wmarone: What happens if you press them in the stock media player?
Jan 25 21:21:33 <wmarone> nothing
Jan 25 21:22:03 <thomasjfox> wmarone: Ah ok. So that won't work for the test
Jan 25 21:23:41 <thomasjfox> thanks anyway :)
Jan 25 21:26:43 <gnutoo> where is lp5526 on the bus?
Jan 25 21:27:25 <pupnik> do not use sabayon linux :D
Jan 25 21:27:25 <DocScrutinizer> lp5523
Jan 25 21:27:33 <DocScrutinizer> see wiki, led
Jan 25 21:27:43 <gnutoo> ok
Jan 25 21:28:10 <mcepl> Sicelo: could I reflash without Windows (I am a Linux guy)?
Jan 25 21:28:35 <MohammadAG> of course
Jan 25 21:28:37 <ieatlint> http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Linux
Jan 25 21:28:39 <MohammadAG> it's a linux device :P
Jan 25 21:28:45 <Sicelo> :) well, flashing apparently works even better in Linux than in Windows
Jan 25 21:29:31 <MohammadAG> USB enumeration works better in Linux than in Windows :P
Jan 25 21:29:39 <mcepl> cool
Jan 25 21:29:46 <alterego> It's just better.
Jan 25 21:29:57 <alterego> IF it works it's better on Linux, period :P
Jan 25 21:30:09 * alterego waits patiently for Plan 9 mobile devices.
Jan 25 21:30:33 <ieatlint> someone should do a plan 9 vs hurd review
Jan 25 21:31:02 <alterego> Plan 9 works :)
Jan 25 21:31:06 <alterego> Hurd doesn't.
Jan 25 21:31:07 <MohammadAG> alterego, if it works, then I doubt it's anything else
Jan 25 21:31:13 <ieatlint> define works :P
Jan 25 21:31:28 <alterego> woarks-for-me :)
Jan 25 21:31:34 <alterego> hurd-doesnt-work-for-me :)
Jan 25 21:32:00 <ieatlint> have you tried hurd?
Jan 25 21:32:09 <alterego> Yup
Jan 25 21:32:25 <ieatlint> haha, ok :)
Jan 25 21:32:49 <alterego> tbh, I can't see anything over taking GNU/Linux for a while yet.
Jan 25 21:32:57 <alterego> And that's just because of hardware support.
Jan 25 21:33:06 <ieatlint> hahaha http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/
Jan 25 21:33:14 <alterego> Yeah, that's what I tried :)
Jan 25 21:33:32 <alterego> Debian are actually quite into Hurd for some reason.
Jan 25 21:33:35 <ieatlint> that's up there with debian christian edition and hannah montanna ubuntu
Jan 25 21:33:39 <alterego> But they're very GNU :)
Jan 25 21:34:05 <ieatlint> i learnt everything i needed to know about GNU from automake
Jan 25 21:34:29 <ieatlint> and seeing quotes and parts of speeches from stallman
Jan 25 21:34:29 <alterego> Hahah
Jan 25 21:37:11 <mcepl> is Hannah Montana Linux or GNU/Linux ? ;)
Jan 25 21:37:45 <mcepl> Hannah Montana GNU/Linux would sound even better ... mishmash between Hannah Montana and hard-core geekism.
Jan 25 21:38:54 <ieatlint> you can go read about it http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/Site/Home.html
Jan 25 21:39:43 <korhojoa> I'd like to see ReactOS on ARM
Jan 25 21:39:45 <alterego> Or, shakespear edition, Montagnu/linux
Jan 25 21:40:06 <alterego> korhojoa: not sure that'd work. That's the win clone isn't it?
Jan 25 21:41:31 <gnutoo> I failed again
Jan 25 21:41:34 <gnutoo> I'm useless
Jan 25 21:41:50 <gnutoo> i2cset -y 0x2 0x32 0x17 0x10  => Error: Write failed
Jan 25 21:42:05 <gnutoo> 0x2 is from:
Jan 25 21:42:26 <gnutoo> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_LED which says i2c-2
Jan 25 21:42:43 <gnutoo> 0x32 too ( 2-0032 )
Jan 25 21:42:50 <gnutoo> 0x16 is:
Jan 25 21:43:12 <korhojoa> alterego: yeah
Jan 25 21:43:23 <korhojoa> well, there's 7 for arm, so who knows
Jan 25 21:43:24 <gnutoo> #define LP5523_REG_LED_PWM_BASE         0x16 + 1
Jan 25 21:43:25 <Tokz> is posible to play .flac files with the default media player
Jan 25 21:44:00 <korhojoa> sorry, some 8 alpha
Jan 25 21:44:17 <gnutoo> taken from static void lp5523_set_brightnes
Jan 25 21:44:22 <gnutoo> in the kernel driver
Jan 25 21:44:35 <gnutoo> and the last value is an arbitrary value
Jan 25 21:44:40 <gnutoo> for the brightness
Jan 25 21:44:44 <gnutoo> I'm tired of beeing tired
Jan 25 21:45:19 <Tokz> is it posible to play .flac files with the default media player?
Jan 25 21:46:54 <Tokz> sorry for repeating
Jan 25 21:47:08 <Tokz> but i typo'd the last one =)
Jan 25 21:47:47 <alterego> Tokz: I think that's possible if you install the extra decoder support from extras.
Jan 25 21:48:05 <Tokz> couldn't find one :|
Jan 25 21:50:20 <Tokz> any ideas?
Jan 25 21:52:25 <gnutoo> Tokz, install extras
Jan 25 21:52:28 <gnutoo> I'll go
Jan 25 21:57:37 <Tokz> couldn't find anything with the words "flac" or "decoder"
Jan 25 21:57:37 <Tokz> :|
Jan 25 21:58:12 <andre__> Tokz: maybe it's ogg-support
Jan 25 21:58:30 <Tokz> okay
Jan 25 21:58:35 <Tokz> what has ogg to do with flac?
Jan 25 22:00:34 <trx> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/libhildon-extras1/0.9.7/
Jan 25 22:00:45 <trx> "it has missing dependencies"
Jan 25 22:00:59 <trx> is this fresh data or has this been fixed?
Jan 25 22:02:16 <makulkar> on maemo, i have parent qwidget, create a child widget, call child->hide() and parents hides too. Or atleast video which is playing on parent widget stops
Jan 25 22:02:40 <trx> ignore what i asked above
Jan 25 22:09:30 * PhonicUK is away: playing LBP2
Jan 25 22:10:34 <luke-jr> Tokz: FLAC is an Ogg format
Jan 25 22:10:40 <Tokz> oh
Jan 25 22:10:48 <Tokz> couldnt find ogg-support
Jan 25 22:10:51 <Tokz> :|||
Jan 25 22:13:26 <pupnik> wow LBP2 is genius
Jan 25 22:16:12 <piggz> did some kind of maemo update come out today?
Jan 25 22:21:06 <pupnik> bah there aren't any phones i'd rather buy than a n900
Jan 25 22:21:14 <pupnik> still .. nothing out there
Jan 25 22:21:32 <ds3> pupnik: not even a Droid? ;)
Jan 25 22:22:10 <pupnik> looking at what's available for android, maemo is way more fun to me
Jan 25 22:22:20 <pupnik> the phone would have to be much better hardwarewise
Jan 25 22:22:23 <pupnik> at the same price
Jan 25 22:22:56 * GAN900 facepalms
Jan 25 22:23:12 <pupnik> i've been using android for a month now GAN900 - on a tablet
Jan 25 22:23:17 * GAN900 facepalms
Jan 25 22:23:21 <pupnik> it's SO ANNOYING
Jan 25 22:23:49 <pupnik> not to mention unstable
Jan 25 22:24:06 <pupnik> not to mention full of 99% pure shit for apps
Jan 25 22:25:43 <GeneralAntilles1> You'd thing people wouldn't be surprised by a thunderstorm in the lightning capital of the world.
Jan 25 22:25:47 <GeneralAntilles1> pupnik: Android sucks.
Jan 25 22:26:29 <pupnik> it's kind of fun to have 'a little bit' of linux on the phone.  -- more fun for me than symbian
Jan 25 22:26:41 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Jan 25 22:26:43 <GeneralAntilles> Very little bit, though.
Jan 25 22:26:50 <GeneralAntilles> and the whole OS is just irritating.
Jan 25 22:26:55 <pupnik> yhes
Jan 25 22:27:31 <pupnik> i hope there's a 'slightly improved n900' soon
Jan 25 22:27:37 <GeneralAntilles> Anything at all soon.
Jan 25 22:27:41 <GeneralAntilles> Otherwise nobody will care anymore.
Jan 25 22:28:02 <pupnik> wouldn't it be fun to have the exact same maemo5 on a new phone?
Jan 25 22:28:24 <pupnik> 40nm omap3 +  bigger screen and better speakers and bigger battery and better speakers?
Jan 25 22:28:28 <pupnik> lol
Jan 25 22:28:32 <GeneralAntilles> I'd take it.
Jan 25 22:28:36 <pupnik> me too :)
Jan 25 22:28:38 <GeneralAntilles> 1GB of RAM
Jan 25 22:28:54 <kerio> hell yeah
Jan 25 22:28:56 <merlin1991> and better speakers
Jan 25 22:28:58 <merlin1991> ;)
Jan 25 22:29:01 <kerio> and all for 19.99$
Jan 25 22:29:10 <merlin1991> are you kidding me?
Jan 25 22:29:16 <merlin1991> 9,99$ is the way to go
Jan 25 22:29:33 <pupnik> sure, per-week :)
Jan 25 22:29:36 <GeneralAntilles> kerio: well, at that price, hell no.
Jan 25 22:30:22 <pupnik> 2 year contract @ 9.99 per week would cover costs + operator wouldn't it
Jan 25 22:30:46 <pupnik> for people who can't save a bit of money
Jan 25 22:47:45 <mcepl> if I bought N900 in US, but I use it in Czechia ... should I download US or Global firmware? Does anybody know?
Jan 25 22:49:00 <pupnik> i have only used 'global'
Jan 25 22:49:09 <mcepl> ok
Jan 25 22:50:21 <pupnik> i think it is safe to try whichever one you want
Jan 25 22:51:33 <mcepl> OK, let's go global. My soul is not limited to one place ;)
Jan 25 22:51:37 <ds3> pupnik: so you would value software over the hardware?
Jan 25 22:52:09 <pupnik> ds3: i can wait for whatever nokia brings next
Jan 25 22:53:01 <pupnik> then buy a used n900 if it sucks
Jan 25 22:53:25 <alterego> Can anyone remember where in London Nokia World was held last year?
Jan 25 22:53:27 <pupnik> and with a spare battery, n900 is usable for 1 day
Jan 25 22:54:05 <pupnik> but i'd prefer a 40nm omap3 @ 1ghz, 4.5" screen and 2000mAh battery :D
Jan 25 22:54:08 <pupnik> oled
Jan 25 22:54:45 <alterego> I'd like compass, hdmi, 1080p decoding
Jan 25 22:54:50 <trx> i am trying to translate a peace of code from C
Jan 25 22:54:57 <alterego> So I can use it as a media PC for my TV
Jan 25 22:55:00 <trx> QFont QtHeWrapper::showHeFontDialog(QWidget *parent, const QFont &defaultFont, const QString &dialogTitle) <-- what does & mean here?
Jan 25 22:56:06 <alterego> trx: it means "reference of"
Jan 25 22:56:30 <alterego> So you pass in a real object, which it'll basically make it's own copy of.
Jan 25 22:56:33 <mcepl> hmm, flasher ends with
Jan 25 22:56:34 <mcepl> USB device found found at bus 002, device address 008.
Jan 25 22:56:34 <mcepl> Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy
Jan 25 22:56:36 <mcepl> any ideas?
Jan 25 22:56:54 <trx> oh, that its, ty alterego
Jan 25 22:57:21 <alterego> trx: const before means it wont touch you object aswell.
Jan 25 22:59:05 <trx> that explains it, i was confused by "const"
Jan 25 22:59:49 <alterego> :)
Jan 25 22:59:52 <trx> ty :)
Jan 25 22:59:55 <alterego> np
Jan 25 23:00:34 <alterego> the cool thing about QString args as well, you can pass in a c string inplace.
Jan 25 23:00:56 <alterego> Because it'll cast to QString and work as expected.
Jan 25 23:01:42 <alterego> So: showHeFontDialog(this, QFont("fixed"), "some string");
Jan 25 23:02:25 <alterego> Is fine and you don't have to worry about memory management because those "objects" die when your function scope ends.
Jan 25 23:04:44 <ieatlint> actually those are fixed strings that sit on the stack methinks
Jan 25 23:06:12 <alterego> ieatlint: I meant QFont as an object, and that static c string gets cast to a QString, but you maybe right, I'm not an expert at these things. But he doesn't have to worry about memory management.
Jan 25 23:07:18 <alterego> bbl
Jan 25 23:08:05 <ieatlint> yeah, in that example, he doesn't
Jan 25 23:20:13 <trx> good to know that too, ty again :)
Jan 25 23:49:56 <MrBawb> fixed strings are actually in a section called "text"
Jan 25 23:51:35 <MrBawb> I don't really know much about C++, but I expect the temporary object created goes through the stack, like you said
Jan 26 00:07:43 <alterego> MrBawb: yes, it's something like that ;)
Jan 26 00:15:43 <ieatlint> my point is that all identical strings in c/c++, as compiled by gcc with standard optimisation, are the same string
Jan 26 00:16:36 <ieatlint> if you have the string "blah" in 50 different places in your app, it doesn't take up 50x "blah", it takes up 1x "blah" ... same if you call a function that uses "blah" 50 times, it's the same string -- its memory address (on the stack) never changes
Jan 26 00:17:28 <ieatlint> (the relative point being that the memory used by the strings in the example remains on the stack for the duration of the program, and doesn't free or disappear)
Jan 26 00:24:10 <alterego> ieatlint: yes, we get that :)
Jan 26 00:24:28 <alterego> He doesn't have to worry about those details though.
Jan 26 00:24:46 <ieatlint> :P
Jan 26 00:25:39 <alterego> Should be ready for another Columbus weekly release either tomorrow or thursday.
Jan 26 00:25:49 <alterego> With the nice new trips feature.
Jan 26 00:26:34 <alterego> And a few more features/enhancements and some bug fixes.
Jan 26 00:27:32 <alterego> I like the fact that I'm doing weekly releases, I also like the fact that my v1 roadmap/todo-list is no longer increasing at the same rate it's decreasing.
Jan 26 00:27:36 <alterego> Now it's actually going down :D
Jan 26 00:27:46 <alterego> Anyhow, bedtime, g'night folks.
Jan 26 00:27:51 <pupnik> nite
Jan 26 00:32:56 <jacekowski> alterego: tell me when it will start using more than 50% of cpu and more than 128M of ram
Jan 26 01:03:02 <MohammadAG> hmm
Jan 26 01:03:11 <MohammadAG> my device is hanging a lot
Jan 26 01:03:11 <kwtm> Hi. What is the latest opinion on Maemo PR 1.3? Any improvements/fixes since it came out, or would upgrading to 1.3 today be just the same as upgrading when it came out (I think) a few months ago?  If PR 1.2 is working okay, is it worthwhile upgrading?  If PR 1.2 is not working (3-5 second delays before responding to keypresses), does PR 1.3 fix it?
Jan 26 01:03:29 <kwtm> Oh no.  If MohammadAG's phone is hanging a lot, then mere mortals like me have no hope.
Jan 26 01:03:35 <MohammadAG> and by hanging, I mean it stops responding all-in-all for a minute
Jan 26 01:03:51 <MohammadAG> second actually lol
Jan 26 01:04:43 <MohammadAG> kwtm, we'll be announcing PR1.3.3.7-1 soon
Jan 26 01:05:02 <wmarone> PR1.3 solved my problem with the browser and IOwait killing the device
Jan 26 01:05:03 <MohammadAG> you have to be on 1.3 to install it
Jan 26 01:05:16 <wmarone> modest bug is still making things suck though
Jan 26 01:05:25 <MohammadAG> which one?
Jan 26 01:05:37 <kwtm> MohammadAG: Ah, so there will be a more recent version of 1.3 soon.  Okay, I'll wait.  Ohhh... I need 1.3 to upgrade to 1.3.3.7-1, then?  Is that a stable or a bleeding-edge type upgrade, the "...7-1"?
Jan 26 01:05:49 <wmarone> the one where it only actually pulls down new mail via pop3 after long, long intervals or connection changes
Jan 26 01:05:55 <wmarone> forcing an update doesn't work
Jan 26 01:05:59 <MohammadAG> bleeding edge, but it's stable :P
Jan 26 01:06:07 <kwtm> wmarone: Thanks for info.  May be worthwhile upgrading.  Did 1.3 introduce any new problems?
Jan 26 01:06:22 <MohammadAG> this hanging thing seems to be a CPU problem :/
Jan 26 01:06:32 <wmarone> kwtm: none that I've hit, probably some others have
Jan 26 01:07:02 <kwtm> MohammadAG: Do I understand, then, that I do the usual Over-The-Air upgrade which gets me Just Plain 1.3, and then I manually upgrade to a more stable version, or is the Over The Air upgrade a more stable version than the first 1.3?
Jan 26 01:07:12 <pupnik> lol, android user can't see/copy videos from browser cache.  what a piece of crippleware
Jan 26 01:07:39 <kwtm> wmarone: Good to know. Just for my info, do you use your N900 as a phone a lot, or mainly tablet computer + internet? I'm having phone stability issues (would love to blame it on PulseAudio).
Jan 26 01:07:40 <MohammadAG> kwtm, 1.3.3.7-1 is a community update
Jan 26 01:08:00 <MohammadAG> argh, gonna reboot
Jan 26 01:08:05 <kwtm> MohammadAG: Understood.  Is there a 1.3.3, for example, that's Over The Air official from Nokia?
Jan 26 01:08:16 <kwtm> MohammadAG: Will wait for reboot, since I value your advice.
Jan 26 01:08:23 <wmarone> wmarone: I use it daily as my primary phone
Jan 26 01:08:23 <MohammadAG> nope, 1.3 might be the last update
Jan 26 01:08:31 <wmarone> err
Jan 26 01:08:35 <wmarone> kwtm
Jan 26 01:08:36 <MohammadAG> from Nokia that is
Jan 26 01:08:40 <kwtm> wmarone: Okay.
Jan 26 01:08:41 <MohammadAG> nmm
Jan 26 01:08:51 <kwtm> I swear, this N900 drives me nuts sometimes.
Jan 26 01:08:55 <MohammadAG> charger isn't detected
Jan 26 01:09:09 <kwtm> On the one hand, there's nothing like it.  I'm glad it exists.
Jan 26 01:09:41 <kwtm> On the other hand, there's nothing like it.  I don't really have any alternative, and in some ways it sucks so much I wonder if someone went out of their way to make it suck.
Jan 26 01:10:12 <kwtm> I'm just waiting for The Unannounced Samsung Linux Phone to come out so there's something else for me to buy. <sigh>
Jan 26 01:10:50 <wmarone> well, if samsung tries on new devices what they tried to pull on Galaxy Tab owners, I'd avoid them like I avoid Motorola
Jan 26 01:12:00 <kwtm> wmarone: What did they do for Galaxy Tab?  I thought the Galaxy S had an enthusiastic following but haven't followed news on the Galaxy Tab.  (Is that an iPad competitor?)
Jan 26 01:12:11 <wmarone> the tab is Samsung's tablet
Jan 26 01:12:36 <wmarone> and they pushed out an update that changed the bootloader so it only booted a signed kernel
Jan 26 01:12:47 <wmarone> fortunately the guys at xda-devs were able to fix it
Jan 26 01:15:03 <kwtm> !! Wait, they *pushed* an update?  Presumably it runs Android-for-Sheeple or that there was some way to set it up so you wouldn't get automated updates ...
Jan 26 01:15:55 <wmarone> by "pushed" I mean "made available to users"
Jan 26 01:16:14 <wmarone> of course, they didn't tell anyone what they were doing in terms of the bootloader update
Jan 26 01:17:08 <kwtm> Ahh, one of those stealth updates, like "we fixed a bug in Internet Explorer --oops!, look, your computer no longer passes the This Copy Of Windows Isn't Pirated test!"
Jan 26 01:18:07 <kwtm> What did Motorola do to you?  They don't have any Linux phones or even Android, do they?
Jan 26 01:18:13 <wmarone> err
Jan 26 01:18:21 <wmarone> motorola is not dead because of android
Jan 26 01:18:45 <wmarone> and on every device since the DROID, they have signed the bootloader and kernel
Jan 26 01:19:07 <kwtm> Oh. I guess you can see the big "I Don't Follow Android" stamped on my forehead.
Jan 26 01:19:10 <wmarone> so "ROMs" for the devices are nasty hacks that are limited to stuff compatible with the kernel on the device
Jan 26 01:19:26 <wmarone> I'm not a fan of Android but I watch what wireless hardware vendors do
Jan 26 01:20:11 <kwtm> I try to generally keep up with Android on Slashdot but haven't had much time lately.
Jan 26 01:20:24 <kwtm> Oh, wait, the Verizon Droid X is from Motorola, isn't it?  duhhh... I forgot.
Jan 26 01:20:34 <wmarone> yes
Jan 26 01:20:54 <kwtm> Which provider do you use for the N900? (If that's what you have.)  I've been pleased with Tmobile --or at least they haven't pulled any bad stunts on me.
Jan 26 01:21:05 <wmarone> AT&T
Jan 26 01:21:11 <kwtm> Are they okay, AT&T?
Jan 26 01:21:18 <wmarone> sure, no problems
Jan 26 01:21:33 <wmarone> no 3G service, but it's not that important to me
Jan 26 01:22:14 <kwtm> will keep that in mind.  My N900 displays 3G on the bars, but I wonder if that actually means 3G service?  It will sometimes display "2.5G" and I'm sure there's no such thing.
Jan 26 01:22:25 <wmarone> 2.5G = EDGE
Jan 26 01:22:40 <wmarone> 3G means 3G service, but T-Mobile's coverage is weak so you end up on EDGE sometimes
Jan 26 01:22:54 <kwtm> wmarone: I see.  So it's a quality of service thing --kinda like "number of bars indicator for data".
Jan 26 01:23:30 <wmarone> not really QoS, if you see 2.5G then you've got zero 3G signal
Jan 26 01:23:35 <wmarone> and are significantly slower data-wise
Jan 26 01:24:31 <kwtm> Oh.  Okay.  I wonder what I had before I got the N900?  I had a Palm Treo which doesn't indicate the type of service.  I thought EDGE was all I would get. I think I have one of those grandfathered unlimited internet plans.
Jan 26 01:50:55 <jonwil> Making a bit of progress on the icd policy plugins, thankyou Nokia for the very nice http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/icd2/files.html and the documentation linked to by that page
Jan 26 01:51:27 <jonwil> And for releasing an i386 package for icd that lets me use HexRays to reverse engineer the plugins :)
Jan 26 01:57:10 <kwtm> Sounds interesting.  What is icd?
Jan 26 01:57:20 <kwtm> Well, I have just speeded up my phone by about a bazillion times.
Jan 26 01:57:34 <BCMM> kwtm: is it on fire?
Jan 26 01:57:44 <kwtm> BCMM: Feels like it.  About time, too.
Jan 26 01:58:10 <pupnik> interesting stuff jonwil
Jan 26 01:58:14 <kwtm> I deleted about 2500 contacts.  Apparently this vaunted 32GB memory superphone can't handle too many contacts.  So I just whittled it down to under 100.
Jan 26 01:58:33 <jonwil> icd is the internet connectivity daemon
Jan 26 01:58:49 <jonwil> so the policy plugins should presumably be what controls which network it connects to and when
Jan 26 01:59:13 <kwtm> Now I use Vim to dial my contacts, and keep my ContactsDB empty so every time the phone rings it doesn't have to sweep through the whole Contacts DB looking to see if there's any particular icon to display when a particular phone number is calling me.  <sigh>
Jan 26 01:59:24 <kwtm> jonwil: Sounds interesting.  Will check it out.
Jan 26 02:00:12 <kwtm> So, wmarone, we were talking about the PR 1.3 upgrade.  I think I'll hold off since the phone seems to be faster now.
Jan 26 02:06:07 <wmarone> weird, but ok
Jan 26 02:06:30 <wmarone> kwtm: it's got 32GB of internal memory, but that's all nonvolatile storage :)
Jan 26 02:09:33 <kwtm> wmarone: Yeah ... and, *man*, does it love to use that nonvolatile storage for swapping!  Almost as if saying to me, "it's a slower type of memory --allow me to demonstrate!"
Jan 26 02:10:05 <kwtm> Or, to be more specific, "allow me to demonstrate while that phone is ringing and you are waiting for the green button to show up on screen so you can answer the call!"
Jan 26 02:28:48 <DocScrutinizer> ~lart ZyXEL
Jan 26 02:28:48 * infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking ZyXEL's head off
Jan 26 02:51:09 <DocScrutinizer> BURP
Jan 26 02:53:30 <DocScrutinizer> Me allows to demonstrate to kwtm. (just keep away of my flat)
Jan 26 02:55:23 <DocScrutinizer> it's about time...
Jan 26 02:56:12 <DocScrutinizer> WTF, I'm not existing...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 26 02:59:57 2011