**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 29 02:59:56 2011 Jan 29 06:20:55 good morning Jan 29 07:20:33 LOL@ApMeFo menu Readme ===Warning=== and ===getting started=== Jan 29 07:27:01 did anyone look into updating the fosdem-schedule application for n900 yet? Jan 29 07:31:22 dm8tbr, I bet the iPhone one is up to date... Jan 29 07:31:25 The irony Jan 29 07:32:28 Termana: the first one was for android... Jan 29 07:32:44 which means I might as well install it on my a101 and a32 and be done with it... Jan 29 07:33:18 heh lovely Jan 29 07:33:41 currently I'm trying to figure out why the application just closes when I try to update the schedule... Jan 29 07:33:57 I assumed it was done iPhone, Maemo, Android and then WebOS since that's the order on the website. Jan 29 07:35:22 yeah, I meant this year. I only see an android announcement Jan 29 07:36:45 Why is it that sometimes, when the system is overclocked, the minimum frequency that is displayed is 125 MHz, instead that of the overclocked setting? Jan 29 07:36:49 Oh, I didn't realise they were making a NEW one every year. I guess I shouldn't have assumed the application would just pull from a web location and display the data. Jan 29 07:37:10 yeah, how unforeseen :/ Jan 29 07:37:23 conference happens every year, who would have thunk Jan 29 07:37:42 the maemo app just crashes if I try to update the compiled in schedule Jan 29 07:38:38 terminate called after throwing an instance of 'OrmNoObjectException' Jan 29 07:38:39 Aborted Jan 29 07:39:58 ...Four wolves, who appeared before the boy when he was returning home from school, were scared away by the noise coming from the boy's mobile phone -- the swinging sounds of thrash metal band Megadeth. Jan 29 07:42:58 which repository should I enable to get strace? Jan 29 07:43:22 tools Jan 29 07:43:25 tols Jan 29 07:43:30 tools, sorry Jan 29 07:43:34 tnx Jan 29 07:44:10 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5 Jan 29 07:59:24 Termana: on speiPhone there's no Programms and project data. Every eBook on applestore is a hybrid of a reader plus the book text Jan 29 07:59:44 Termana: so why should a calendar be different? Jan 29 08:00:19 Do I understand it correctly that NCDK is ARM-based and ICDK is Intel-based? Jan 29 08:00:55 hooray, it looks like manual file-import seems to work with that application... Jan 29 08:01:04 now let's see if that does anything useful... Jan 29 08:01:57 DocScrutinizer - I have no clue exactly what your saying in the first bit, you can have files, audio/text/etc. included or later downloaded for an application on the iPhone and I don't know of whether the iBooks hold the reader app or not but if they do that is bullshit Jan 29 08:02:06 *bang* it just asploded after trying to import the last entry... waaaay to go ixonos, waaay to go ;) Jan 29 08:04:39 * dm8tbr suddenly remembers that he has at leas one obs account that can build fremantle Jan 29 08:48:11 * ieatlint suspects a part of the western coast the US just had an internet disruption Jan 29 08:49:55 Probably massive earthquake, and it slipped into the sea. Jan 29 08:52:00 win! Jan 29 08:52:12 oh wait, I'm just north of the western coast of the US Jan 29 08:52:17 * doc|home pokes self Jan 29 08:52:19 nope, still here Jan 29 08:52:51 i'm about 200m from the sea... i'd probably have noticed that Jan 29 08:53:21 meh, it's comforting to know that when california goes, we'll take the entire world economy with us Jan 29 08:53:22 I'm about 1km on three sides... I'd *definitely* notice it Jan 29 08:53:37 ieatlint: that might well happen without any earthquake Jan 29 08:54:00 yeah, because i hear facebook and google are having trouble Jan 29 08:54:50 oh, are we doing sarkiness? Jan 29 08:55:12 "oh, I didn't know everyone in California worked for just those two companies" Jan 29 08:55:18 i'm in san francisco, would you expect anything less? Jan 29 08:55:22 fair point Jan 29 08:55:24 heheh Jan 29 08:55:35 sleep time, night Jan 29 08:55:37 we have a new unofficial city motto... "not smug, just better" Jan 29 08:55:44 hahaha, nice Jan 29 08:55:48 I might borrow that Jan 29 08:55:59 :) Jan 29 08:56:00 nite Jan 29 09:20:03 what steps are necessary to get the scratchbox setup to mimic that of a normal n900? i mean, dsme isnt even running by default is it? Jan 29 09:37:33 * Dhraakellian finally gets around to submitting a Kontact Touch bug report Jan 29 09:49:09 * alterego ponders Jan 29 09:49:25 I have four days to build a MeeGo columbus port. Jan 29 09:49:31 * Dhraakellian ponderously ponders ponderous ponderings Jan 29 09:49:45 And then what? =) Jan 29 09:50:29 And then I can demo it at the Cambridge MeeGo Network meetup Jan 29 09:50:49 OMG Jan 29 10:13:05 hi Jan 29 10:13:57 "You gotta tell a ho 68 and I owe you 1" Jan 29 10:15:04 hi Jan 29 10:15:10 "a woman must do 71 things, cleaning, cooking and 69" Jan 29 10:16:10 heh Jan 29 10:16:17 Hrm, this kind of talk is accepted here? We surely do not tolerate such on #drupal Jan 29 10:16:38 ack Jan 29 10:16:40 What is drupal? Jan 29 10:16:45 official warning Jan 29 10:18:25 :< 'twas a joke Jan 29 10:18:35 Heh, US seems to be suddenly getting its wish come true Jan 29 10:18:50 Rolling revolution in the Middle East =) Jan 29 10:19:20 The US is quite happy with many of the governments in the region. Jan 29 10:19:22 hi Jan 29 10:19:56 lo mary Jan 29 10:20:14 Speed: Well, the process does not appear to be very selective =) Jan 29 10:20:35 kerio: it was a joke, wasnt it?that's so wrong. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:srDdP856QGAJ:rocktreesky.com/reacting-sexism+rock+tree+sky+sexism&hl=en&strip=1 check comments. Jan 29 10:20:46 hi Jan 29 10:20:49 I guess it's rather their nightmare than their dream Jan 29 10:21:05 ok Jan 29 10:21:08 i no Jan 29 10:21:42 the problem with the US is that the goverments they like are rarely the governments people in the region like Jan 29 10:21:48 haha Jan 29 10:21:51 well said Jan 29 10:21:59 can i tweet what you just said? Jan 29 10:22:28 sure, why not Jan 29 10:22:34 marry, if you're actually no bot, and know something better to say than hi and I no, then /query DocScrutinizer and tell me to -q you Jan 29 10:23:22 Doc: What if it is not a bot but lacks mental capacity to prove so? Jan 29 10:23:43 hmm, should that make any difference Jan 29 10:23:55 ? Jan 29 10:24:00 Will you segregate based on the mental capacity? =) Jan 29 10:24:32 no, strictly based on behaviour Jan 29 10:24:57 But it is trying to communicate! It may have Feelings! =) Jan 29 10:27:38 good question: how do you differentiate a bot from a two year old? my nephew mostly just repeats single words and we are delighted when he says the correct one for an object. This is something a current bot can do. Jan 29 10:27:39 it seems actually trying to communicate Jan 29 10:29:05 chx: you don't Jan 29 10:29:10 you ban both from #maemo Jan 29 10:29:33 http://xkcd.com/810/ Jan 29 10:29:52 chx: A better question is how you differentiate a bot from a [technically] adult male who just lol like havin fun lol w/ u geekz Jan 29 10:30:38 yeah, and stealing my time with private query on same level now :-S Jan 29 10:30:48 Especially considering how many of these will happily engage Elise in erotic conversation Jan 29 10:31:03 [2011-01-29 11:25:23] new to irc? Jan 29 10:31:05 [2011-01-29 11:25:34] fine and u Jan 29 10:31:06  Jan 29 10:31:08 [2011-01-29 11:26:57] are u here Jan 29 10:31:09 [2011-01-29 11:28:01] since when you are on IRC? Jan 29 10:31:11 [2011-01-29 11:28:38] me Jan 29 10:31:11 hahaha Jan 29 10:31:14 Doc: A bot. Jan 29 10:31:19 I bet Jan 29 10:31:32 "To join #maemo, you must pass the Turing test." Jan 29 10:31:41 Ok, maybe not a bot, but who the hell cares? He wouldn't pass the Turing test anyway. Jan 29 10:32:26 The turing test? Does that involve a public toilet? Jan 29 10:32:31 Sorry. Jan 29 10:32:39 Speed:For some,it did. Jan 29 10:33:05 Speed: But you are too late. Jan 29 10:34:35 i hate all sites with javascript that parses every character i type in an entry field Jan 29 10:34:42 IRC rule #15: There are no real users like marry!emma@41.203.64.254 Jan 29 10:35:51 Who wrote mbarcode? Jan 29 10:35:53 I forgot. Jan 29 10:35:56 lardman Jan 29 10:35:59 Was it lardman? Jan 29 10:36:02 ah Jan 29 10:36:19 just ask it the classical question "If Joe goes to shopping will his head stay at home?" Jan 29 10:39:21 MUHAHAHA Jan 29 10:39:24 [2011-01-29 11:34:52] fuckoff bot idiot Jan 29 10:39:26 [2011-01-29 11:35:01] divide 1 by 0 Jan 29 10:39:27 [2011-01-29 11:35:09] STFU Jan 29 10:39:29 [2011-01-29 11:35:35] ok can u help me Jan 29 10:39:30  Jan 29 10:39:32 [2011-01-29 11:36:44] plz Jan 29 10:39:33 [2011-01-29 11:37:10] help on what? (damn why am I doing this?) Jan 29 10:39:35 [2011-01-29 11:38:36] plz can u help me with some money Jan 29 10:39:50 this is getting better and better Jan 29 10:40:22 heheh Jan 29 10:40:41 take their money Jan 29 10:45:49 what an idiot Jan 29 10:46:21 too stupid to code a bot half the intelligence of ELIZA Jan 29 10:46:26 [2011-01-29 11:38:36] plz can u help me with some money Jan 29 10:46:27 [2011-01-29 11:41:10] sure, no problem. How much would you need? Jan 29 10:46:29  Jan 29 10:46:30 [2011-01-29 11:42:59] ok 10$ Jan 29 10:46:32 [2011-01-29 11:43:18] can u Jan 29 10:46:33 [2011-01-29 11:44:19] sure, just give me your address and bank account Jan 29 10:46:35 [2011-01-29 11:44:50] hi Jan 29 10:46:36 [2011-01-29 11:45:03] can u help me Jan 29 10:47:17 DocScrutinizer: it's not that interesting is it Jan 29 10:47:44 it's starting to get extremely boring, yeah Jan 29 10:47:56 time for a traceroute then Jan 29 10:48:10 haha, yeah already done Jan 29 10:48:14 nigeria Jan 29 10:48:25 globacom-gw.lnt.cw.net (166.63.211.234) 77.867 ms 76.162 ms 76.597 ms Jan 29 10:48:25 pupnik: willing to bet on it? Jan 29 10:48:38 no Jan 29 10:48:51 It did not offer any riches, too Jan 29 10:49:27 meanwhile nmaping it Jan 29 10:49:51 http://www.infosniper.net/index.php?ip_address=166.63.211.234&map_source=1&overview_map=1&lang=1&map_type=1&zoom_level=7 Jan 29 10:50:08 Wichita area Jan 29 10:50:13 http://www.ip-adress.com/ip_tracer/41.203.64.254 Jan 29 10:52:06 whaddyanow? it may be a genuine nigerian there! Jan 29 10:52:08 ahh. hm, yes. well. that's completely different. Jan 29 10:52:08 freakin idiots Jan 29 10:52:47 Doc: You should be thankful for having an opportunity to speak to a live nigerian. Jan 29 10:53:00 RST38h: it's not that cool. I've spoken to them before Jan 29 10:53:01 I still bet it's a bot Jan 29 10:53:02 here in .fi people have been fined 12500 euros for port scanning Jan 29 10:53:14 one wanted to buy my used panties Jan 29 10:53:14 korhojoa:educational though Jan 29 10:53:16 maybe an assisted bot Jan 29 10:53:29 I didn't understand why, i thought it was a japanese thing Jan 29 10:53:37 joga: ? who? Jan 29 10:53:50 joga: HUH? Jan 29 10:53:52 korhojoa: did he at least inquire about your gender first? Jan 29 10:53:57 korhojoa, some young man portscanned a bank's servers Jan 29 10:54:06 (in finnish) http://www.pjoy.fi/lehdet/0306pj.htm Jan 29 10:54:11 RST38h: no, he didn't :D Jan 29 10:54:25 nmap + OP = fail? Jan 29 10:55:06 joga: that is why any respectable hacker must have a .RU-based shell account =) Jan 29 10:55:12 hahahaha :D Jan 29 10:55:15 they're nuts, those Finnish Jan 29 10:55:23 No we're not! Jan 29 10:56:19 here in english http://insecure.org/stf/fin.html Jan 29 10:56:20 joga: banks *expect* to be portscanned from .RU IPs! Jan 29 10:57:02 yeah of course it's just silly Jan 29 10:57:07 *SIGH* [2011-01-29 11:44:50] hi [2011-01-29 11:45:03] can u help me [2011-01-29 11:46:16] hi [2011-01-29 11:55:25] hi Jan 29 10:57:08 RST38h: i guess that's why most banks are blocked from .ru ? :D Jan 29 10:57:21 that's after I offered to send 10$ Jan 29 10:57:29 so no fun in that :-/ Jan 29 10:57:32 :D Jan 29 10:57:50 korhojoa: Dunno, none of the ones I periodically deal with are Jan 29 10:58:10 I'd send food... Jan 29 10:58:23 RST38h: I was kidding :P Jan 29 10:58:25 I have a shoddy paid shell account I sometimes use for some stuff, and it was so poorly managed nmap for example was available for all users, and so I once did a port scan on one of my own computers at home to test the firewall settings and a few hours later I found that my account had been suspended Jan 29 10:58:44 RST38h: but I think that some probably are doing this Jan 29 10:58:57 joga: Nmap *should* be available to all users, shouldn't it? Jan 29 10:58:58 joga: haha, success. tnnet? Jan 29 10:59:25 I called them and they explained they detected the port scanning and it's illegal and bla but they did re-enable the account when I told it was my own pc Jan 29 10:59:29 korhojoa, daug Jan 29 10:59:29 pupnik: Send condoms. Jan 29 10:59:39 hahahaha Jan 29 10:59:48 ow Jan 29 10:59:54 joga: Is it really illegal? Port scanning is not an intrusion, technically Jan 29 10:59:54 * pupnik coughing Jan 29 11:00:06 RST38h according to that judgement, it is Jan 29 11:00:21 but that's stupid :) Jan 29 11:00:30 joga: Yes, but is there a law that says it is illegal? Jan 29 11:00:43 There are cyberharrassment laws Jan 29 11:00:45 there's a law against computer break-ins Jan 29 11:00:56 and in this case it was deemed that he had attempted a break-in Jan 29 11:00:58 joga: Becauseif there is no such law, they cannot claim it is illegal Jan 29 11:01:05 if its against T&Cs then its not law based restrictions Jan 29 11:01:15 I love the recent US decision that violating T&Cs is illegal. Jan 29 11:01:18 And a criminal act. Jan 29 11:01:31 RST38h, yeah I guess there's no specific law against port scanning the way it's done Jan 29 11:01:40 joga: If I stick my nose to your window, is it a breakin, or just some randomguy being creepy? Jan 29 11:01:46 SpeedEvil: seriously? :D that's retarded Jan 29 11:01:52 RST38h, it could be harassment :) Jan 29 11:02:04 RST38h: harrasment most likely Jan 29 11:02:24 Ok, but can they classify port scanning as harassment? Jan 29 11:02:26 korhojoa: really. Jan 29 11:02:35 RST38h, they can, obviously Jan 29 11:02:37 :) Jan 29 11:02:51 I can't believe how dumb that is. Jan 29 11:02:57 or let me check if I can find the charge.. Jan 29 11:03:07 some countries have tried to implement that Jan 29 11:03:19 but politicians are stupid Jan 29 11:03:24 Well,the laws are being applied by people who do not know or understand what a port scan is Jan 29 11:03:49 right Jan 29 11:04:05 And if you have got a corporation on one side and a 16-year old idiot on the other, the verdict is kinda predictable Jan 29 11:04:08 http://volokh.com/2011/01/04/eleventh-circuit-holds-that-it-is-a-crime-for-an-employee-to-use-his-employers-computer-for-non-business-reasons/ korhojoa Jan 29 11:04:25 (violation of TOS = illegal) Jan 29 11:05:41 Speed:this is different Jan 29 11:06:29 Speed: You have got an employee who repeatedly defies his supervisors by refusing to sign a legal form Jan 29 11:06:55 RST38h: this case - yes. Jan 29 11:07:10 RST38h: The underlying law is pretty clear it's any TOS though. Jan 29 11:07:18 Speed:This being a US government institution (SSA) and him being a latino minority, they cannot easily fire him Jan 29 11:07:41 RST38h: Which is irrelevant to the law being over-broad, and applying in many other circumstances. Jan 29 11:08:09 Speed: Yes, but in this case it is being applied precisely enough Jan 29 11:08:49 Speed: Because the guy accessed someone's personal data without authorization,for his own personal reasons Jan 29 11:09:30 RST38h: Right - this is a 'righteous' application of the law - as it was intended. The bills actual scope is much, much wider than this case. Jan 29 11:10:21 Speed: I have not seen this bill ever applied to anyone using his work PC to browse facebook, if this is what you mean Jan 29 11:10:39 I guess the first thing it will be applied to is someone browsing for a new job Jan 29 11:11:02 RST38h: It can be, with a sufficiently energetic prosecutor. Jan 29 11:11:20 korhojoa: unlikely, because the victim will file for harassment Jan 29 11:12:16 It really works much simpler if both the employee and the employer are ethical andcourteous to each other Jan 29 11:13:16 finnish police's page has a summary that says roughly "cybercrimes are determined according to criminal law. When using another person's credentials or exceeding the privilege that has been granted to them, one is guilty of a break-in. for example, the seemingly innocent and common act of port scanning is such a crime" Jan 29 11:13:19 "You do not use your work PC to maintain your porn collection - and I do not mind you browsing tmo at work" Jan 29 11:13:25 (http://www.poliisi.fi/poliisi/krp/home.nsf/pages/63B3FC75928EFB7EC2256C8B0043A41E) Jan 29 11:13:35 (and they also use lotus notes) :) Jan 29 11:14:14 joga: Actually, port scanning cannot be described as either of these activities Jan 29 11:14:55 joga: When port scanning, you 1) are not using another person's credentials and 2) are not exceeding your user privileges (after all, administration made nmap available to you) Jan 29 11:14:56 RST38h...yeah Jan 29 11:15:01 RST38h, I know ;) Jan 29 11:15:04 i once asked the president 'oh, it is it taking too much bandwidth'? Jan 29 11:15:46 I remember there was also some thing in germany about outlawing administrat...sorry, *hacking* tools Jan 29 11:15:54 ;) Jan 29 11:16:40 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/05/30/garmany_anti-hacking_law/ Jan 29 11:16:42 those debates seem to quietly settle down over years Jan 29 11:25:52 joga: this is a nice proof of finnish police's lack of any clue whatsoever about what portscanning is. And I doubt they can define crimes with one sentence on a website anyway Jan 29 11:26:11 DocScrutinizer, yeah, I couldn't find a translation of that law on finlex Jan 29 11:26:29 but there are a lot of pointless laws Jan 29 11:27:29 anyway marry got rather quite, since I nmap'd it and reported it to freenode staff Jan 29 11:27:30 For example: car lights are required to be on during the day, when it's light outside. Jan 29 11:27:49 DocScrutinizer nmap yield anything? Jan 29 11:28:10 Doc: internet cafe closed for cleaning? =) Jan 29 11:28:15 nah, was too slow (SYN stealth), I ^C'd it Jan 29 11:29:20 * ShadowJK likes the hadlight law Jan 29 11:29:26 easier to see cars Jan 29 11:29:40 daylights you mean? Jan 29 11:29:50 yeah, but the low beams are required to be on Jan 29 11:29:55 especially the people driving white cars now, they'd be pretty much ivnvisible otherwise Jan 29 11:29:56 I don't see why they can't allow something like DRL Jan 29 11:30:20 dunno what daylights is Jan 29 11:30:41 korhojoa: car lights -- are you sure it's pointless Jan 29 11:30:54 chx: pretty sure. Jan 29 11:31:05 ShadowJK: special headlight mode where they arealways on Jan 29 11:31:33 korhojoa: tunnels, passin under an overpass, sudden mist or rain... isnt it simpler to have it on? Jan 29 11:31:43 well my toyota switches on hedlights whenever engine is on, but it's exactly the same as turning them on manually Jan 29 11:31:52 except that highbeam doesn't work Jan 29 11:31:56 All I know is that cars manufactured for Finland all have have their lights always on Jan 29 11:32:15 not true Jan 29 11:32:16 My parents' opel doesn't have it always on Jan 29 11:32:23 I have to manually turn headlights on Jan 29 11:32:45 chx: overpasses have lights, tunnels have lights, mist or rain will rarely totally blind you if there's enough light to manage during the day Jan 29 11:33:50 and DRL would allow cars to have these smaller bulbs on and they (at least where they're being used) have a light intensity detector and then turn on the main lamps if it gets dark enough Jan 29 11:33:53 and the finnnish law requires you to either have low beams OR DRLs on at all times Jan 29 11:34:12 Jartza:and not only the finnish law Jan 29 11:34:13 Jartza: yes, well, cars manufactured for finland, not just imported Jan 29 11:34:31 my car is manufactured "for finland" Jan 29 11:34:47 Jartza: yes, but that law was only recently added. DRL's haven't been on cars until the last two years or so Jan 29 11:34:51 Jartza: which one? Jan 29 11:35:32 dodge caliber Jan 29 11:35:37 also, if they're old, they require you to turn on the lamps themselves. we've got a chrysler stratus and it also requires us to turn on the lamps by themselves Jan 29 11:35:47 well, it's an american car, they're pieces of crap anyway. Jan 29 11:35:54 no it's not :) Jan 29 11:35:59 it's quite asian Jan 29 11:36:09 still not manufactured for finland, it's made for the general european market, where the lights aren't required Jan 29 11:36:30 the motor is made by GEMA (mitsubishi/hyundai), base plate is made by mitsubishi and the CVT is made by jatco (nissan subsidiary) Jan 29 11:36:37 toyota has a mount for the relay to turn on lights automatically, I suspect toyota has it automatic because it's required in jp too or something? Jan 29 11:36:42 for some reason, american cars are allowed to have this. I don't know why. Jan 29 11:37:02 Jartza: I know, I've test driven the car and everything Jan 29 11:37:13 not much american in that car anyway :) Jan 29 11:37:33 ShadowJK: I'd say because it makes it easier to just make the same relay box for all the cars? Jan 29 11:37:42 had a Talbot Horizon once, it had autoheadlight even before the daytime headlight requirement.. and it was a chrysler subsidiary I think Jan 29 11:37:43 Hello anyone! I have an issue with maemo-flasher, that i can't resolve with my experience and google. It's "Unable to enumerate USB buses!" problem under Slackware linux. Can anyone help to find solution, if i provide necessary info? Should I install libusb legacy API for flasher (first - ask, then break)? Jan 29 11:37:44 Jartza: well, the design sure is, it's a box with wheels? Jan 29 11:37:55 I've driven 140Mm in 3 years with that car, not a single problem with the car Jan 29 11:38:10 box with wheels? Jan 29 11:38:15 aren't all cars like that :) Jan 29 11:38:19 except convertibles Jan 29 11:38:19 korhojoa, it's not a box even, it's just a piece of metal sticking out from the chassis and relay screwed onto it Jan 29 11:38:23 ShadowJK: haha, Talbot Horizon :D whoa Jan 29 11:38:42 it was dual-fuel! :) Jan 29 11:38:51 from the oil crisis Jan 29 11:38:51 I had talbot horizon also :D Jan 29 11:39:03 Jartza: true. Some boxes are just prettier than others. :P Jan 29 11:39:12 ShadowJK: dual-fuel? Jan 29 11:39:30 Operated: I hope the folks here get on topic soon, and then will help you :-) Jan 29 11:39:42 korhojoa: true, but "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"... :) Jan 29 11:39:50 my Talbot Horizon was made in finland :) Jan 29 11:40:18 Operated: you followed the hints about rmmod some modules (cdc_phonet?)? Jan 29 11:40:20 by Saab-Valmet in Uusikaupunki :) Jan 29 11:40:35 Operated: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=839 someone solved it using a VM Jan 29 11:40:46 Jartza: yeah, I know :P Jan 29 11:41:15 Jartza: I'm not proud to say that I actually like a few american designs, like the Tahoe and Suburban Jan 29 11:41:25 and actually, after talbot I owned Peugeot 309 :) Jan 29 11:41:52 that car was supposed to be Talbot also, but PSA killed Talbot before they made it Jan 29 11:42:17 it could run on what would be called "petroleum" in .fi Jan 29 11:42:25 after the engine got warm Jan 29 11:42:30 :) Jan 29 11:42:56 it's called petrol here Jan 29 11:43:28 korhojoa: i read that thread, another OS in VM isn't pretty solution, but I'll use it if can't find any solution. Jan 29 11:43:33 ShadowJK: where are you from? Jan 29 11:43:46 Operated: yeah, sorry about that, don't use slackware myself Jan 29 11:43:50 .fi.. Jan 29 11:44:25 I'm a bit surprised, I always suspected you being from the UK. Oh well :D I guess there's a larger proportion of finnish users here than i suspected Jan 29 11:44:37 Operated: is it a 64bit OS? Jan 29 11:44:38 :) Jan 29 11:44:48 Yeah, lot of us Finns here Jan 29 11:46:10 DocScrutinizer: ermmm, seems not. If "cdc_phonet" is the name of the module, I haven't one loaded. No, i'm using 32-bit OS. Jan 29 11:46:22 hmm Jan 29 11:46:39 Operated: sorry, I'm short of ideas then Jan 29 11:47:26 Jartza: you're aware of Jan 29 11:47:28 ~flash Jan 29 11:47:29 [flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 29 11:48:30 sorry, Operated ^^^ Jan 29 11:48:59 o.O how's that ETAB slipping in there? sorry Jartza Jan 29 11:48:59 oh, kerosene in english. It was dual gasoline/kerosene :) Jan 29 11:49:03 :) Jan 29 11:49:06 no prob Jan 29 11:49:50 I also get that sometimes, copypasting something from web to irc causes strange tab-expands :) Jan 29 11:50:42 Somewhere in maemo forums I read that new libusb may cause this error. My version is: libusb-1.0.8. What version you used for successfull flashing? Jan 29 11:50:57 DocScrutinizer: thanks for ideas anyway =) Jan 29 11:51:53 //no matter under what OS Jan 29 11:52:03 *which Jan 29 11:54:14 hey, marry vanished Jan 29 11:56:33 aw :< Jan 29 12:00:01 DocScrutinizer: it costs money per hour to use an internet cafe down there Jan 29 12:00:16 yeah Jan 29 12:00:35 and they might not be amused to get nmapped Jan 29 12:00:57 or freenode klined marry, as I suggested Jan 29 12:01:37 did you get a video chat? Jan 29 12:01:37 or that other dude took down their network, he was rather upset GNAA is doing it again Jan 29 12:01:52 lol, with a bot? Jan 29 12:02:16 gnaa? :D Jan 29 12:02:22 no idea Jan 29 12:02:34 ~wtf gnaa Jan 29 12:02:34 the uh... association of america? Jan 29 12:02:35 Gee... I don't know what gnaa means... Jan 29 12:02:40 really? Jan 29 12:02:41 ~gnaa Jan 29 12:02:49 Hey, is there a way to open Ovi Maps with a specific LNG/LAT position? Jan 29 12:02:58 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fencyclopediadramatica.com%2FGNAA&rct=j&q=gnaa&ei=zQFETfCZGc-fOtrqxdgB&usg=AFQjCNERigAkTeqdtf0ImvK3wNpf2QreLA&sig2=qrSqgK1d8OOinT29Njrhzg&cad=rja Jan 29 12:03:14 probably nsfw, but seeing as it's saturday can't see anyone at work Jan 29 12:03:48 that is a link to ED's "GNAA" article Jan 29 12:04:02 it's polite to describe your links korhojoa Jan 29 12:04:46 stupid google, it should be a clear link Jan 29 12:04:51 didn't notice that Jan 29 12:05:01 also WTF for this 3 lines URL, when a simple http://encyclopediadramatica.com/GNAA would do? Jan 29 12:05:30 Seriously, I have no idea. I just right-clicked on the google result and selected copy link url Jan 29 12:05:42 i've made that mistake before Jan 29 12:05:50 annoying, really annoying. Jan 29 12:06:01 you'll always get the google url instead of the one they show Jan 29 12:06:04 there's a greasemonkey script for it Jan 29 12:06:08 so they force you to 'click through' Jan 29 12:06:20 i know, isn't it though Jan 29 12:06:34 btw you an disable 'instant search' permanently in firefox Jan 29 12:06:37 *can Jan 29 12:06:54 another google annoyance Jan 29 12:08:27 ah. after installing this: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/24102 - no more google redirects Jan 29 12:10:04 I love the Wales at the top of ED Jan 29 12:12:23 microb - on google URL "rightclick" and selecting "open in new window" - does complete crap and opens the result window again, instead of the URL it should Jan 29 12:12:31 probably related Jan 29 12:16:18 DocScrutinizer - actually I found that to only happen when you are slightly off somehow from the link. If you zoom right in and directly make sure you get the link it doesn't do it Jan 29 12:16:44 o.O Jan 29 12:16:52 hey that script works here - thanks korhojoa Jan 29 12:17:18 DocScrutinizer - you heard it here first. Make me famous! :p Jan 29 12:20:57 WTF? Jan 29 12:21:33 wow, i'm really speeding up my internets Jan 29 12:24:11 Doc: you are still playing with that puppet? Jan 29 12:24:14 DocScrutinizer - you don't like my bot? :( Jan 29 12:24:17 :P kidding Jan 29 12:24:31 (it's not mine, if it's a bot/person/whatever) Jan 29 12:24:37 (it) Jan 29 12:24:42 Ah, Termana, you evil nigerian puppeteer... Jan 29 12:25:06 too late to hide it now, your secret out Jan 29 12:25:16 RST38bis, sounds like a great new slogen for my business, Buy From Me - I'm an evil nigerian puppeteer! Jan 29 12:25:23 slogan* Jan 29 12:25:37 and a member of GNAA :-P Jan 29 12:25:53 Termana: Except that it should start with "Come to my circus" Jan 29 12:26:03 DocScrutinizer - :O heh Jan 29 12:27:12 :O what's that? goatse? Jan 29 12:27:35 DocScrutinizer - GNAA is the parent organisation to Goatse Security. It's so big, it needs a security team Jan 29 12:28:00 The organisation that is! Jan 29 12:28:02 :p Jan 29 12:28:17 Anyone knows if opera guys are planning on another release for maemo5? Jan 29 12:28:47 because their thing crashes on aborted tcpip connections... Jan 29 12:29:31 maybe a good way is to ask opera themselves :) Jan 29 12:31:33 Damn it Jan 29 12:31:50 my internet connection is as unstable as DocScrutinizer Jan 29 12:31:52 wazzup? Jan 29 12:32:32 I have a better uptime than any of your other crap Jan 29 12:32:58 so WTF are you talking about? Jan 29 12:34:27 Don't try to hide it by telling us about your uptime, I know you've been admitting yourself to the mental hospital Jan 29 12:34:31 I BACKTRACED YOU Jan 29 12:34:33 :p Jan 29 12:34:54 anybody know of a good fm transmitter i could plugin to my device? Jan 29 12:35:15 pupnik, what about the one already in your device? Jan 29 12:35:25 50 nanowatts? Jan 29 12:35:46 there are chinese fm dongles Jan 29 12:35:58 nameless ones Jan 29 12:36:01 I'm sorry, I didn't understand you needed to run a pirate radio station Jan 29 12:36:04 you ever heard of a bot got serviced at mental hostpital? Jan 29 12:36:32 Doc: yes, by the patients Jan 29 12:36:53 :D Jan 29 12:37:07 They sucked the oil out but didn't put it back Jan 29 12:37:20 If you know what I mean Jan 29 12:38:25 pupnik, http://cgi.ebay.com.au/USB-Stereo-215-Channel-FM-Transmitter-Modulator-MP3-/170590928050?pt=AU_Electronics_Portable_Audio_Accessories&hash=item27b802fcb2 Jan 29 12:38:33 pupnik: http://www2.rohde-schwarz.com/en/products/broadcasting/sound_transmitters/SR600E1.html?cal_time=1222498056 Jan 29 12:39:03 Termana: you lose Jan 29 12:39:19 DocScrutinizer - The transmitters comprise the following modules: Jan 29 12:39:26 VHF FM Transmitter SU135 (exciter) Jan 29 12:39:31 WTF is the EXCITER? Jan 29 12:39:41 oh baby, broadcast from me Jan 29 12:39:44 something exciting maybe? Jan 29 12:39:53 Who, like me thinks it's a bad idea for me to store track log in sqlite3? Jan 29 12:40:08 yes Jan 29 12:40:17 I'm thinking of doing it, right now, because it's the easiest way to get the feature implemented. Jan 29 12:40:33 just use a freaking flat file Jan 29 12:40:44 alterego, you should consult your doctor if your doing squirrel communication. Jan 29 12:40:58 I already use sqlite for certain things. Jan 29 12:41:14 * RST38bis feeds Termana nuts Jan 29 12:41:19 Basically, waypoints are stored in the sqlite3 database as are trip meta data. Jan 29 12:41:32 Just keep trollin' trollin' trollin' Jan 29 12:41:47 Termana: afaik an Exciter is something that adds harmonics in freq band of human speech so audio sounds more brilliant Jan 29 12:41:55 alterego: then why the hell not, once the sqlite screws up yiu will lose it all anyway Jan 29 12:41:57 Actually, I've got a n idea. Jan 29 12:42:00 sqlite has terrible performance on flash media, second-long freezes are common :) Jan 29 12:42:21 Termana: but here it's probably just the first stage TX, which excites the PA Jan 29 12:42:28 RST38bis: why would sqlite screw up? Jan 29 12:42:32 ShadowJK: which suddenly brings to mind...Fennec! Jan 29 12:42:38 lol Jan 29 12:42:39 Heh Jan 29 12:42:48 stutter stutter stutter :D Jan 29 12:43:02 sqlite makes even rappers stutter Jan 29 12:43:26 thanks Termana DocScrutinizer Jan 29 12:43:26 alterego: sqlite is known to damage its storage files every now and then Jan 29 12:43:43 Good job I've got export/import then :P Jan 29 12:46:33 flash is like a tape drive, you don't want sqlite doing writes in a zillion random places on it.. a simple appending logfile would cause less load even if it grows to multimegabyte over time (at which point you probably want to consolidate it) Jan 29 12:47:29 Like I said, it's just because it's very easy for me to implement it with SQLite3 right now. Jan 29 12:47:48 I want to use flat file logging (well, I already do) it's the loading that's the problem at the moment. Jan 29 12:48:51 dont load with fscanf then :) Jan 29 12:48:55 Structure isn't that important, but the resulting write access pattern is :-) Jan 29 12:49:03 Actually, I think I planned for this. Jan 29 12:49:08 (Is is a bit silly) Jan 29 12:49:14 I designed columbus to do this ffs. Jan 29 12:49:22 I just forgot how I did it ^.^ Jan 29 12:49:24 anyways you already have sqlite there Jan 29 12:49:37 Yes, I use sqlite for waypoints and trip meta information. Jan 29 12:49:51 track logs are already stored in an NMEA flat file when configured. Jan 29 12:50:01 s/track logs/logs/ Jan 29 12:50:01 alterego meant: logs are already stored in an NMEA flat file when configured. Jan 29 12:52:21 Yes, this should work nicely. Jan 29 12:52:50 sqlite developers are trying to unfuck sqlite by making it record all transactions as a constantly appending log Jan 29 12:53:04 that's reduce stutter alot.. Jan 29 13:02:18 ShadowJK: ACID-compliance any time soon? Will Oracle buy them? :) Jan 29 13:06:08 Okay, seems, I found a solution. For google and log indexation: "Unable to enumerate USB devices" error in flasher fixes by installing old libusb-0.1.12 version. Jan 29 13:07:13 ...Dear Google! Please check my account settings! Do you see "language: English" there? Then why the hell do you insist on serving me pages in Russian?... Jan 29 13:08:42 RST38bis: your browser is requesting russian Jan 29 13:11:54 Operated: installing a version of Linux that does not require fiddling is also an option Jan 29 13:12:01 kerio: nope. Jan 29 13:12:55 then you live in russia Jan 29 13:13:01 you freedom-hating, godless commie bastard Jan 29 13:13:38 settings FIRST. ip SECOND. Jan 29 13:13:58 not the vice versa, bad google, bad. Jan 29 13:14:54 RST38bis: replacing 5-years old deprecated depencies with new ones in such important utility is also good thing. Jan 29 13:16:00 Operated: never had a problem, sorry. running latest stable ubuntu. Jan 29 13:17:52 RST38bis, google does same thing to me Jan 29 13:18:15 though google ads thinks im in japan and google search thinks i speak dutch Jan 29 13:19:11 ShadowJK: you probably got a provider that sometimes assigns you dutch addresses =) Jan 29 13:19:48 ShadowJK: Tele2 does this kind of thing in Lithuania, freaked me out at first Jan 29 13:20:02 No, I definitely have a dutch IP address. However, I've set language to english everywhere on google. it just periodically resets Jan 29 13:20:13 why adsense things think im in jp, nfi Jan 29 13:20:33 now, THAT is ..mmm...kawai Jan 29 13:20:58 It's 99% groupon.jp ads, not that exciting Jan 29 13:22:11 RST38bis: it's so good to listen, that many linux users even doesn't know about this problem. Really =) Jan 29 14:04:26 pfff, I *really* wonder what for that crappy defunct xkbbell is in standard fremantle Jan 29 14:04:54 maybe it even worked, prior to PA adoption Jan 29 14:16:41 Bloody passworded pdfs Jan 29 14:19:26 i like being able to beep things with ^G Jan 29 14:24:51 .gvfs @³đ€1°!!##*\¿%$$!!!! >:-((( BSBSBSBS Jan 29 14:26:07 pupnik: alas xkbbell won't help, on maemo Jan 29 14:28:34 * DocScrutinizer wonders since when he got this FSCKING gnomefs .gvfs and what's the use a root cp -a ~jr /some/where is throwing error as not even root can stat that shit Jan 29 14:29:11 ~nuke gnome Jan 29 14:29:12 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at gnome ... B☢☢M! Jan 29 14:29:24 ~lart g* Jan 29 14:29:24 * infobot makes a balloon animal out of g* Jan 29 14:30:31 Has anyone managed to disassemble a Nokia C7? Jan 29 15:12:29 Bloody quiet today. Jan 29 15:12:54 run out of reality-modifying substances? Jan 29 15:35:30 I wonder where does fapman stores the names of the repos, its not in /opt/fapman-cache/sources.list. Looking to back the names up in case I import the list of repos from ham gives it weird titles again Jan 29 15:36:21 hey nokia... 2000mAh or better Jan 29 15:36:30 go go Jan 29 15:36:37 pupnik: Yes, and you agree to wear it on your belt, with a wire Jan 29 15:37:55 Nokia switching to WP7 Jan 29 15:38:16 No iOS? Aaaarghhh! Jan 29 15:38:23 GAN900: source? Jan 29 15:38:26 * RST38h buying iPhone right away. Jan 29 15:40:41 GAN900: where is the source? is this confirmed? Jan 29 15:40:47 Yes. Jan 29 15:41:00 http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/mugen-power-3600mah-extended-battery-for-nokia-e61-europe-model-nokia-e62-asia-model-with-battery-door-in-silver.html Jan 29 15:41:00 what about meego? Jan 29 15:41:17 No. Jan 29 15:41:33 srsly, this is facepalm deluxe Jan 29 15:41:45 Yes. Jan 29 15:42:24 might be time to invest in nokia stock Jan 29 15:42:37 steinex, no, rumor. Jan 29 15:42:58 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=69057 Jan 29 15:44:09 GAN900: He did not really say anything of the kind Jan 29 15:45:19 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=NOA3:GR check the stockc Jan 29 15:45:53 NOthing interesting happening to the stock. Jan 29 15:46:07 (see a longer term graph below) Jan 29 15:47:15 http://de.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=NOA3.DE Jan 29 15:47:42 looks comatose to me, sorry Jan 29 15:49:49 Is XFade still alive and in charge of the Extras? Jan 29 15:51:19 rumours is the source of all FUD, period Jan 29 15:51:52 psycho: Lack of communication from the company is the source of all fud Jan 29 15:52:05 wonder how much of that E7 delay is due to exchange integration problems Jan 29 15:52:19 RST38h, its what you get with companies these days, its not only Nokia that's doing it, have a look at Apple Jan 29 15:54:42 RST38h, indeed not. Jan 29 15:54:48 RST38h, thus the hilarity. Jan 29 15:58:21 GAN: Watching endless lemming hordes argue about things they do not understand and cannot affect lacks any hilarity Jan 29 15:59:59 RST38h, perhaps a bit manic. Jan 29 16:01:03 GAN: You want manic, try this: http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/happy-free-market-log-17643390 Jan 29 16:01:44 GAN: Best consumed with this: http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/experiment-log-261-ad-de Jan 29 16:15:27 Good afternoon. Jan 29 16:15:36 Anyone around that hacks in mBarcode? Jan 29 16:16:42 Well, lardman|gone's nick suggests that he's not. Jan 29 16:17:07 I don't really, anymor, so I'm not sure who else to suggest. Jan 29 16:17:11 *anymore Jan 29 16:18:18 derf, I see. I was trying to understand better how it works Jan 29 16:18:46 It seems that the heavy stuff is done by ZBar and libdmtx, right? Jan 29 16:19:30 Is gstreamer used for anything else besides display video (i.e. image processing/filtering)? Jan 29 16:23:10 anyone tried to bind /var/log to /opt/var/log? Jan 29 16:35:11 This is really more a dbus issue than a Maemo one, but I have a dbus service which dies with "Failed to register GObject with DBusConnection" on dbus_g_connection_register_g_object() only so far on Maemo and not if I run it on a desktop machine. (The code is https://github.com/tthurman/imgur-integration/blob/master/src/dbus/imgur-service.c ). Does anyone know where Jan 29 16:35:40 Gonna write and release an app to Ovi this weekend me thinks Jan 29 16:35:59 I would begin trying to find out what that error means? I have read the source of dbus-glib itself and am none the wiser Jan 29 16:36:30 the rootfs and the /home uses the same chip right? oneNAND? Jan 29 16:38:32 what is the delay in milliseconds of bluetooth audio ? Jan 29 16:38:37 range.. Jan 29 16:46:44 marnanel: i bet you have more than one ImgurUpload objec Jan 29 16:46:46 marnanel: t. Jan 29 16:46:56 psycho_oreos, no, /home is on 32GB Jan 29 16:47:23 The onenand is a 256M chip that is soldered on top of the CPU Jan 29 16:47:25 MohammadAG, so different chips I suppose? :/ thanks Jan 29 16:47:33 Along with 256M of RAM Jan 29 16:47:34 ahh bugger Jan 29 16:48:14 marnanel: you can't register more than one object at the same path on one connection Jan 29 16:48:33 marnanel: oh, i see Jan 29 16:48:51 in imgur_upload_init() you're registering the ImgurUpload object at /com/imgur Jan 29 16:49:00 and then right after creating one, at line 300, you do the same Jan 29 16:49:17 marnanel: you're also requesting the imgur.com name twice Jan 29 16:50:05 psycho_oreos: otherwise /opt would be rather senseless Jan 29 16:50:22 marnanel: if you're sure ImgurUpload will always be a singleton, I'd keep the code that registers it at /com/imgur in its _init() Jan 29 16:50:43 marnanel: and then move the code in main which claims the 'com.imgur' bus name to after you construct the ImgurUpload object Jan 29 16:50:58 marnanel: and remove the call to dbus_g_c_register_g_o from main, and the call to RequestName in imgur_upload_init Jan 29 16:51:05 DocScrutinizer, I was hoping to resize the rootfs but little did I know they were on two different chips Jan 29 16:51:35 marnanel: also rather than generating a binding for RequestName, I would call http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/api/html/group__DBusBus.html#ga8a9024c78c4ea89b6271f19dbc7861b2 Jan 29 16:51:52 marnanel: you can turn a DBusGConnection into a DBusConnection with the DBUS_G_CONNECTION_TO_CONNECTION () macro (well, it's called something like that) Jan 29 16:52:04 psycho_oreos: see: Jan 29 16:52:07 marnanel: got to head out to a train, hope this helps :) Jan 29 16:52:15 ~optification Jan 29 16:52:15 [optification] a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 Jan 29 16:53:22 what's said about usr/ there does apply to var/log etc as well Jan 29 16:53:57 I still think /usr/local but that's just me Jan 29 16:54:14 And FHS doesn't say /usr under different part does it? Jan 29 16:54:24 Because thet's pretty retarded. Jan 29 16:56:59 marnanel: oh also i can explain some other time (if you're interested) why this crashes on maemo and not on your desktop :) Jan 29 16:57:02 * wjt -> Jan 29 16:59:04 DocScrutinizer51, bleh I'll read that some other time, right now I'm just a little annoyed with the lack of space.. my rootfs now sits on 40MB of free space Jan 29 17:00:18 how do i get the router IP address Jan 29 17:00:23 using ifconfig Jan 29 17:01:02 MohammadAG, you can't try route instead and check for the line containing UG Jan 29 17:01:37 psycho_oreos, is that necessary? I'm connected Jan 29 17:02:31 MohammadAG, well I don't know how to check via ifconfig but I can definitely say with route you can see where is the router's IP address or at least the default gateway Jan 29 17:09:51 <_llll_> ifconfig is for config(uring) the i(nter)f(ace) not for configuering the router Jan 29 17:11:48 ifconfig is also deprecated Jan 29 17:13:53 There is no "ip" on maemo Jan 29 17:14:04 So it's not deprecated here. Jan 29 17:17:03 it sure is Jan 29 17:17:14 there's iproute package in extras-devel Jan 29 17:17:22 (I never pushed them to extras-testing :/) Jan 29 17:23:20 Damn Glazers Jan 29 17:29:13 wjt: I would actually quite like to hear why it crashes on maemo and not the desktop sometime Jan 29 17:29:24 wjt: thanks! Jan 29 17:52:05 hi guys Jan 29 17:54:17 ahaha I love the advanced clock plugin, using binary clock, it looks fancy but now I have nfi how to interpret the time. The active little display showing seconds looks almost like as if its a braille display Jan 29 17:56:20 lol psycho_oreos Jan 29 17:57:12 * psycho_oreos facepalms self for installing something fancy and now made himself look more like a blonde :) Jan 29 17:58:14 does less exists for maemo? Jan 29 17:58:28 yes under qa-tools Jan 29 17:58:57 whats the package name? :) Jan 29 17:59:01 less Jan 29 17:59:15 hmm, Im missing something Jan 29 17:59:54 whats qa-tools? :D Jan 29 18:02:13 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_developer_tools Jan 29 18:03:02 actually: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5 Jan 29 18:03:22 oh, yeah, i used that repo a while ago Jan 29 18:03:26 it fucked up my device bigtime Jan 29 18:03:31 cant remember how though :P Jan 29 18:03:38 think it was one pr update Jan 29 18:03:52 but how can anyone do anything without lesS? :) Jan 29 18:04:21 they probably used more heh Jan 29 18:05:01 :D Jan 29 18:05:21 i feel that there is about a hundred lame jokes that would fit right now Jan 29 18:06:18 do you know if the packages there are optified? Jan 29 18:06:54 hmm, they claim that installing man on device is a bad idea :( Jan 29 18:06:55 don't know, somewhat doubt it Jan 29 18:06:56 i want man Jan 29 18:07:02 yeah, i agree Jan 29 18:07:10 I can't install man without breaking lots of setup internally Jan 29 18:07:33 oh, i see Jan 29 18:08:01 i thought man was only a bunch of text-files, didnt expect that to break something Jan 29 18:15:12 ecksun: um, 'more' exists Jan 29 18:15:31 less is a feature-more version of it, so it's not a joke :P Jan 29 18:16:04 yes, i know Jan 29 18:16:07 thats why i want less Jan 29 18:16:15 i dont really like more, to few features Jan 29 18:16:45 i have less installed via extras Jan 29 18:16:55 oh? where is it? Jan 29 18:16:59 wheres the problem? sorry, didn't got the whole conversation Jan 29 18:17:05 i cant find the package Jan 29 18:17:13 less isnt contained in coreutils-gnu Jan 29 18:17:16 atleast Jan 29 18:17:28 i want to know where i can find less :) Jan 29 18:17:35 i have extras-testing and extras-devel enables, it's only there probably Jan 29 18:17:42 s/es/ed/ Jan 29 18:17:42 steinex meant: i have extras-tedting and extras-devel enables, it's only there probably Jan 29 18:17:47 i enabled testing Jan 29 18:17:50 its not there Jan 29 18:18:00 let me check Jan 29 18:18:14 but your right Jan 29 18:18:20 there exists a less package in devel Jan 29 18:18:54 if a package exists in two repos (freemantle utils and devel) which one will get prioritized? Jan 29 18:18:59 the one with the highest version number, right? Jan 29 18:19:16 I presume so yes Jan 29 18:19:21 ecksun: right Jan 29 18:19:36 ecksun: you could use apt-pinning to prioritize stable versions, though Jan 29 18:19:53 yes, but i would rather not Jan 29 18:20:05 or, nvm, thoguht of something lese Jan 29 18:20:07 else* Jan 29 18:20:20 apt-pinning will lead to other problems sooner or later Jan 29 18:20:31 yes Jan 29 18:20:34 however, i'm running extras-devels without any problems virtually forever now ;) Jan 29 18:20:39 but, less is an exception, probably Jan 29 18:20:53 steinex, yeah, but I have something against unstable software Jan 29 18:21:04 Im running debian stable on my server, which might say something :P Jan 29 18:21:04 if you really just care about less, you could just get the deb and dpkg -i it Jan 29 18:21:12 yes, i know Jan 29 18:21:29 but i dont think there are going to be any problem with installing it from devel, and then disabling it Jan 29 18:21:32 whatever thats called Jan 29 18:21:52 that would be an option too, of course Jan 29 18:25:17 have you used apt-pinning? Jan 29 18:25:38 yes Jan 29 18:25:50 did you run into any problems, and if so, what? Jan 29 18:26:37 but i just switched to using extras-testing/devel directly and never encountered any problems Jan 29 18:26:47 nope, there where no problems with pinning Jan 29 18:27:14 but anyway... no problem with running devel... maemo is not debian Jan 29 18:27:28 :D Jan 29 18:29:30 and you will be happy about updates in third-party-applications that would need ages to reach extras-stable Jan 29 18:30:18 switching to devel won't upgrade any substantial maemo-stuff. that are third-party packages anyway. so, go ahead ;) Jan 29 18:30:50 yes, i know Jan 29 18:30:54 but they are devel nontheless Jan 29 18:31:02 thats why i only enabled testing Jan 29 18:31:09 i have only used extras the previous year Jan 29 18:31:13 baby steps and so forth :D Jan 29 18:31:16 uhm, well Jan 29 18:31:38 to not confuse things: upstream-developers don't decide if its devel, testing or stable Jan 29 18:31:52 maintainers of the repositories do (via votes from community) Jan 29 18:32:12 a package might be perfectly in shape for extras-stable but would never end there because noone cares Jan 29 18:32:57 yes, im aware of that Jan 29 18:33:21 but any maintainer can get their stuff into testing Jan 29 18:33:56 so when stuff ends upp their you could think of it as the maintainer think its mature enough :) Jan 29 18:34:03 but now im going to eat, have a nice day1 Jan 29 18:34:27 i'm going to drink, you too! Jan 29 18:42:45 anyone here have experance with USB Host mode DMA kernel code? Im trying to get an x-box kinect hooked up to my N800 and i have done some hacking and have the devices showing up and trying to transfer frame data via DMA but im a bit confused by the data flow through the Kernel USB host mode driver code. Jan 29 19:09:37 hey Jan 29 19:09:50 see this little app i wrote? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=930757 Jan 29 19:10:19 nobody responded so i believe i posted it in a board that recieved little traffic Jan 29 19:10:27 where else could i put it? Jan 29 19:17:31 UP YOUR ASS! *ba dum tsss* Jan 29 19:18:37 mc_teo: sadly the GPS has some serious troubles getting a fix if it doesn't have cell data and/or network data Jan 29 19:24:17 anybody know where to buy Neo-8 drivers cheap in europe? Jan 29 19:31:15 hah, the autobuilder now hates me too :) Jan 29 19:31:38 javispedro: hey, do not turn bt off if it has been on to begin with =) Jan 29 19:31:43 for some reason, it's sending me scary python exceptions via email the instant I send it a package, then proceeds to build it as usual. Jan 29 19:32:18 RST38h: that's fmrx-n900-enabler, nfi why it does that. need to read its logic someday. Jan 29 19:32:44 RST38h: btw about your background request, have you considered .gtkrc? seems easy enough Jan 29 19:32:57 javispedro: not yet, but hell, yes... Jan 29 19:33:17 javispedro: I just hoped for something that shows up out of the box :) Jan 29 19:33:48 btw, the radio came up showing (null) and 0MHz scale today, took a minute or two to make it work Jan 29 19:34:31 dmesg is probably full of bcm error messages when that happens... Jan 29 19:34:51 heh Jan 29 20:06:07 regarding the packages updated by the community SSU -- i see modest, hildon and libvte updates.... what gets improved? Jan 29 20:06:44 from list javispedro sent in meego channel: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/mp-fremantle-community-pr/blobs/master/debian/control Jan 29 20:10:05 the hildon-desktop in the cssu is matan's mhd being integrated into the standard package. The rest I'm not too sure what fixes were done on them Jan 29 20:12:06 btw, what is this libvte fix someone mentioned earlier? Jan 29 20:13:01 that is osso-terminal Jan 29 20:13:03 prolly. Jan 29 20:13:12 part of it, anyway Jan 29 20:14:30 seems like thp knows about it Jan 29 20:14:53 http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog Jan 29 20:17:07 oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Jan 29 20:17:14 they fixed 6009!!!!!! Jan 29 20:21:08 thanks, javispedro Jan 29 20:22:08 aah,the enter key... Jan 29 20:27:55 RST38h: yes. given that the most important ask for my N900 (ie the one that pays the monthly bill) is SSH and there is more oftne than not a screen on the other end, it's very ick ofr me Jan 29 20:28:03 s/ask/task Jan 29 20:28:28 for personal use, i mostly need GPS + Google maps. Vancouver is just too big for little me. Jan 29 20:31:14 another question. I have a package which is debianised upstream. Clearly I need a different debianisation for Maemo. Is the proper way to do this to have two copies in separate source control, or to keep them together and tell dpkg-buildpackage which to use, or to have just one debian directory and conditionals, or something else? Jan 29 20:39:13 how can AT&T phone credit be spent -- other than making calls? Jan 29 20:39:58 ask AT&T directly? Jan 29 20:42:25 AT&T script reading sales dummies wouldn't be able to handle this question... suppose you have a PYG AT&T phone, and the minutes will soon expire. You do not intend to renew, but you don't want to waste the minutes Jan 29 20:42:59 psycho_oreos: e.g., you can donate the minutes to charity.. but would an AT&T rep know that? I think not. Jan 29 20:43:31 unixSnob, don't they have an accounts department? *shrugs* Jan 29 20:43:47 I never dealt with at&t nor do I live in stateside :) Jan 29 20:47:55 psycho_oreos: well in the states, they are behind. They have not really gotten to a point of being able to use mobile phones to pay for things Jan 29 20:59:57 unixSnob: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/URI_Scheme + QR-code Jan 29 21:05:35 thanks luke-jr.. I'm looking into it. looks complicated. are you saying I implement a means to do carrier billing myself? Jan 29 21:06:19 unixSnob: just display a payment QR-Code and users can load it on their phones to pay Jan 29 21:07:45 eg, display http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=12&d=bitcoin%3A1KczVqwopWXQdFLe5sNQbpCq7yGSmXx2oo to make a random donation to me :P Jan 29 21:07:51 scan that w/ your phone etc Jan 29 21:10:07 luke-jr: my phone is low end.. no cam. my NIT can read barcodes, but I suppose that's useless since my NIT doesn't have GSM Jan 29 21:10:28 unixSnob: what does GSM have to do with anything? Jan 29 21:10:57 luke-jr: ultimately i need to use money loaded on a GSM account Jan 29 21:11:06 unixSnob: well, bitcoin doesn't do that :P Jan 29 21:11:26 the money is sitting in a PYG AT&T account that will soon expire Jan 29 21:11:36 you pay with your phone, like you pay from any terminal Jan 29 21:13:11 luke-jr: that's a bit vague. You can potentially pay with your phone by scanning a 2d barcode (if you have a phone with cam), or you can SMS pay for something Jan 29 21:13:48 and I suspect there might be a way to pay online from a phone account - but that's just theoretical Jan 29 21:14:07 in any case, I would be limited to SMS methods, and online methods, if they exist Jan 29 21:15:30 i wonder what it would take to act as a charity, solely for the purpose of accepting my own SMS donations Jan 29 21:27:06 unixSnob: there's probably huge fees Jan 29 21:33:43 Are there any kind souls around whom I might be able to convince to test my app (orrery) in Extras Testing so that it might be promoted out of QA purgatory? Jan 29 21:35:05 Ken-Young: what does that entail? Jan 29 21:36:36 oh, you mean somebody who is allowed to promote stuff Jan 29 21:36:57 BCMM, It entails loading the app on your N900 from the Extras Testing repository, and seeing if you like it. If you like it, you can vote thumbs up on it on the Testing QA web page. If you think it stinks, or that there are major problems with it, you can vote thumbs down. Jan 29 21:37:08 ah, i see Jan 29 21:37:13 yeah, i'll have a look Jan 29 21:37:21 i've use orrery before, actually Jan 29 21:37:36 BCMM, If you want to be more careful, you can check that it is optified, that it doesn't violate any of the standards etc. Jan 29 21:37:50 which standards are those? Jan 29 21:38:14 BCMM, But since this is just a feature upgrate, things like optification have been tested long ago. Jan 29 21:38:33 BCMM, I'l look for the list... Jan 29 21:39:09 Ken-Young: just to check, which version is the latest -testing version? Jan 29 21:40:02 BCMM, The latest version is 3.2, which is listed on the "Symbol Key" page. Jan 29 21:40:49 Ken-Young: how do you switch portrait and landscape? Jan 29 21:40:50 BCMM, You can also tell the latest version because it has two selection labelled "Astronomical Times" and "Analemma" on the "Other Pages" selection screen. Jan 29 21:41:11 BCMM, Sadly, orrery is a portrait only app. Jan 29 21:41:26 Ken-Young: thought so. it loads in landscape for me... Jan 29 21:41:44 then goes to portrait when i go to another page Jan 29 21:41:50 BCMM, Really??? It doesn't switch to portrait? Jan 29 21:42:04 I've never seen that behavior. Jan 29 21:42:45 Ken-Young: it may be a problem with my system Jan 29 21:43:03 Ken-Young: i've had trouble lately with getting the phone app to go portrait when i want it to Jan 29 21:43:09 i use a modified hildon-desktop Jan 29 21:43:33 but microB portrait mode works fine Jan 29 21:43:43 BCMM, When you got back to the sky map, returning from "Other Pages", does it go back to landscape? Jan 29 21:45:55 Ken-Young: it's OK after going in to "quick tips" and back Jan 29 21:46:08 BCMM, Here is the QA checklist (http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/QA_checklist), but one is not obligated to check the things on that list before voting an app up or down. Jan 29 21:46:41 Ken-Young: but i can get back to landscape by going to "red flashlight" and coming back... Jan 29 21:47:19 BCMM, Could you send me a pointer to a description of how your modified Hildon Desktop is configure? I'd like to reproduce the behavior you're seeing, and try to make my app deal with it properly. Jan 29 21:47:41 Ken-Young: do you mean how i installed it, or gconf stuff? Jan 29 21:48:02 BCMM, If such a description is practical... Jan 29 21:48:14 Ken-Young: http://wiki.maemo.org/Modified_Hildon_Desktop Jan 29 21:49:07 BCMM, Thank you - I'd never run across that before. Jan 29 21:49:32 Ken-Young: the main addition is some extra keyboard stuff, including ctrl-backspace working like alt-tab Jan 29 21:50:23 I wonder what any of that has to do with portrait<->landscape ? Jan 29 21:50:55 Ken-Young: doesn't hildon-desktop act as the window manager? Jan 29 21:51:04 also, it could just not be anything to do with that Jan 29 21:51:51 BCMM, I don't know if hildon-desktop is the window manager. Sounds likely, but I'm just guessing. Jan 29 21:52:05 well, when it crashes the windecos disappear Jan 29 21:52:21 (this can happen when getting a new mail notification with the modified hildon desktop) Jan 29 21:52:36 but alt-tab is just so useful... Jan 29 21:52:54 probably the new hildon-home from cssu might fix it :) Jan 29 21:53:37 psycho_oreos: what is that? Jan 29 21:54:04 ~CSSU Jan 29 21:54:17 CSSU is http://maemo.org/community/council/maemo_5_gets_community_os_updates/ Jan 29 21:54:19 BCMM, Community SSU :) Jan 29 21:54:21 ~CSSU Jan 29 21:54:33 !CSSU Jan 29 21:54:40 ~CSSU Jan 29 21:54:42 hmm Jan 29 21:54:49 ~HAM Jan 29 21:54:49 ham is probably oink oink. Hildon Application Manager. Hazardous Application Manager. Hildon application Manager Ham is also lovely with pickle. Jan 29 21:54:50 Silly bot. Didn't learn it via DM either Jan 29 21:55:46 psycho_oreos: so basically, a kinda "PR1.4"? Jan 29 21:55:54 BCMM: Not quite that big of a jump yet. Jan 29 21:55:56 BCMM, not quite Jan 29 21:55:58 sorry, meant to highlight Jaffa Jan 29 21:56:09 BCMM: MohammadAG likes the version PR1.3.3.7 ;-) Jan 29 21:56:13 yeah, figured it wouldn't be as big as all that Jan 29 21:56:14 BCMM, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog Jan 29 21:56:19 Jaffa: heh Jan 29 21:56:45 BCMM: It's the start of the process though. Lots of scope for lots of different types of folks to get involved to make it as big as PR1.4 and PR1.5 down the line Jan 29 21:57:04 "Added ~/.local/share/applications/hildon to the searchpath for .desktop files" - nice. Jan 29 21:57:12 Jaffa, That's nice to hear. Jan 29 21:57:34 (presumably, that means you can add stuff to the app launcher without getting clobbered by updates, right? Jan 29 21:57:46 BCMM: Correct Jan 29 21:57:58 Ken-Young: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU#Contributing Jan 29 21:59:12 Jaffa, Thanks! Jan 29 21:59:45 Ken-Young: There are some easy improvements to the whole CSSU which can be tackled by someone without a programmer background, such as bug 11815 Jan 29 21:59:47 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11815 Add XB-Maemo-Display-Icon-26 to enabler & meta-packages Jan 29 22:00:03 oh wow, fixed the damn ^M in xterm! Jan 29 22:00:04 Jaffa, sadly you haven't answered my previous question :/ I guess the answer is no? Jan 29 22:00:05 splendid Jan 29 22:00:18 psycho_oreos: Sorry, missed it Jan 29 22:00:33 applications, such as "less" or Vim running under "screen" - i'd met that exact problem Jan 29 22:00:38 (both) Jan 29 22:00:54 Jaffa, ahh ok it was in regards to ham from the cssu, wondered if you were using it, if so, are you facing some `turbulence'? Jan 29 22:01:37 psycho_oreos: I am using it. What d'you mean by "turbulence"? Jan 29 22:01:56 Jaffa, internal error. 'hildon-application-manager' closed Jan 29 22:02:04 psycho_oreos: No, not seeing that. Jan 29 22:02:36 psycho_oreos: However, I don't think CSSU includes HAM does it? Jan 29 22:02:41 all these seems to happen at random. Initially I thought it was red pill mode, but deleting the file and it still seem to do it. I can attach relevant crash dumps however :) Jan 29 22:02:44 Ken-Young: when it says "Can you write documentation?", would that require any specific knowledge, or just the ability to explain things clearly? Jan 29 22:02:57 i mishighlighted again Jan 29 22:03:06 Jaffa: ^ Jan 29 22:03:07 Jaffa, dunno, ham is in the cssu repo and I thought it was also updated Jan 29 22:03:15 psycho_oreos: *Might* be related to the apt-worker shim (and dpkg-divert) Jan 29 22:03:33 psycho_oreos: Hmm. Missing from gitorious and so the Changelog Jan 29 22:04:01 psycho_oreos: Can you raise a bug if there to cover any packages in the repo which aren't at http://gitorious.org/community-ssu? Jan 29 22:04:04 Jaffa, guess I'll need to check the logs myself, hopefully its not from cssu but either way there's fapman for when such built-ins fail Jan 29 22:04:35 BCMM: That doesn't require any specific knowledge. Hell, just tending the wiki and doing things like maintaing the installation FAQ (and maybe a normal FAQ) are great ways to contribute Jan 29 22:04:42 * Jaffa beds Jan 29 22:04:44 Jaffa, hmm I could try, would be my first time raising bugs if its not through garage.maemo.org Jan 29 22:05:01 damn, nite Jaffa Jan 29 22:05:55 BCMM, maybe make it more newb friendly would be nice too :D I had to get my doc contributions edited because it wasn't clear enough Jan 29 22:06:02 psycho_oreos: bugs.maemo.org is *much* nicer :-) Jan 29 22:06:24 Jaffa, ok I'll go through that, or at least will try my best :) thanks and nite Jan 29 22:06:32 psycho_oreos: Great thing about wikis is the iterative nature. All the stuff added under CSSU was much easier to tidy up than write from scratch :-) Jan 29 22:06:44 psycho_oreos: thanks; much appreciated Jan 29 22:07:25 psycho_oreos: Don't worry about the component when raising the bug under https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Maemo%205%20Community%20SSU - there isn't a component for "gitorious" or "missing source" Jan 29 22:07:44 Jaffa: is the changelog comprehensive? Jan 29 22:07:55 (finally, highlighted correctly) Jan 29 22:08:30 Jaffa, ahh perfect, that's the link I've been meaning to look for (I must be getting tired, caffeine is wearing out on me) Jan 29 22:08:56 BCMM: merlin1991 started on it. I would not say it was comprehensive no. In particular where things have moved up to the HEAD, knowing what's changed between the PR1.3 version and the HEAD by Nokians. Hopefully the debian/changelogs for each package contain some useful information Jan 29 22:09:12 psycho_oreos: It's off http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU so I don't have to remember it ;-) Jan 29 22:09:35 Jaffa, lol haha then I'm getting lazy instead Jan 29 22:09:46 BCMM: Again, something which is a little tedious, but doesn't require technical knowledge to consolidate (but may then get adapted by anyone to be more user friendly & understandable) Jan 29 22:17:54 Stock kernel on N900 doesnt have /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ondemand/avoid_frequencies ? Jan 29 22:18:38 nope it doesn't have that file Jan 29 22:20:27 psycho_oreos: is there any way to get that feature on stock? Jan 29 22:20:54 psycho_oreos: i wanted to force the frequency to 600Mhz on a sip call Jan 29 22:20:55 trumee: Apart from recompiling the kernel? Jan 29 22:21:06 Jaffa: yes Jan 29 22:21:34 Jaffa: what feature in the kernel enables that? Jan 29 22:21:36 trumee: NAFAIK. There are governor settings exposed somewhere Jan 29 22:21:41 trumee: No idea, I'm afraid Jan 29 22:21:48 Jaffa: ok Jan 29 22:37:39 whoever was asking me for the AT&T credit... forget it. I found out it's not possible to transfer credit from prepaid to postpaid accounts Jan 29 22:40:24 * jonwil wonders why no-one seems to care about his work on the icd policy pluigins... Jan 29 22:51:40 trumee, no sadly I don't have any idea about that without kernel hacking + compiling Jan 29 22:54:34 i cant Jan 29 22:57:32 * nox- just read about a community ssu, where can i read more? Jan 29 22:58:54 jonwil: not many ppl use it directly Jan 29 22:59:38 well I was hoping someone would be interested in using my findings to produce some new stuff for better control over which network the phone uses Jan 29 23:03:27 BCMM: h-d contains the window manager (which is libmatchbox2) Jan 29 23:03:48 marnanel: thanks Jan 29 23:04:24 BCMM: let me know if you need to know stuff about how libmatchbox2 and h-d interact, or something like that Jan 29 23:05:26 marnanel: all i was wondering was whether problems with portrait mode could be caused by bugs in modified hildon-desktop Jan 29 23:06:02 jonwil: how bout maemo on other devices Jan 29 23:06:22 Thats not something I care about :P Jan 29 23:06:25 BCMM: how was it modified? Jan 29 23:06:56 marnanel: confusingly, "modified hildon desktop" refers to a specific package http://wiki.maemo.org/Modified_Hildon_Desktop Jan 29 23:07:10 oh, I see. hadn't run into that one. Jan 29 23:07:20 "modified rapture!" Jan 29 23:07:32 nox-, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU Jan 29 23:08:45 the mhd (modified hildon desktop) is by matan, supposedly all the relevant tweaks and what not have been integrated into the now hildon-desktop which is available in CSSU Jan 29 23:09:33 marnanel: huh? Jan 29 23:09:38 psycho_oreos: oh, i was going to ask about that Jan 29 23:09:50 psycho_oreos: hildon-desktop isn't mentioned in the CSSU changelog Jan 29 23:09:55 thx psycho_oreos Jan 29 23:09:57 BCMM, I guess that's now answered :) Jan 29 23:10:04 is the changelog up to date? Jan 29 23:10:17 i mean, to what extent is it not up-to-date? Jan 29 23:10:27 BCMM, well its actually mentioned as todo :) but I've heard from MohammadAG that its based on matan's mhd Jan 29 23:10:32 nox-, nw Jan 29 23:10:34 shiny Jan 29 23:10:51 i don't think i could use it without "alt-tab" now Jan 29 23:10:57 or at least its newer than mhd, put it that way :) that's how I asked him Jan 29 23:11:02 nope you still can Jan 29 23:11:14 does it still crash when one gets email? Jan 29 23:11:17 Sym/Ctrl + Backspace Jan 29 23:11:28 I don't know about that, I don't use modest myself :) Jan 29 23:11:35 you could give it a try and see I suppose Jan 29 23:13:00 psycho_oreos: actually, i think it was any "blue notification" Jan 29 23:13:06 (i know they aren't always blue) Jan 29 23:13:28 so does CSSU basically work? Jan 29 23:13:44 (i mean, it is any more of a bad idea than using extras-devel?) Jan 29 23:14:32 BCMM, don't know of blue notification, unless you're referring the blue LED for incoming messages but again I must stress I hardly do emailing with n900, let alone dealing with modest Jan 29 23:15:14 psycho_oreos: when you get an email, sms, or missed call, a thing appears on the task-switcher Jan 29 23:15:50 CSSU is basically in its infancy stage. I'm not sure how to categorise it as Jaffa would but at least their aim is to try and fix up the bugs from core apps mainly Jan 29 23:15:51 sometimes, switching tasks when one of those exists crashes MHD Jan 29 23:16:41 BCMM, for SMS and missed calls I don't think I have had any crashes.. I presume when it crashes the little task bar restarts? Jan 29 23:17:00 yeah, hildon-desktop respawns Jan 29 23:17:47 although i think maemo will reboot if you crash hildon desktop several times in quick succession Jan 29 23:17:57 i guess there is some kind of watchdog there Jan 29 23:19:02 no I don't have any respawns when it came to switching to SMS and missed calls Jan 29 23:19:21 psycho_oreos: do you use CSSU? Jan 29 23:20:04 BCMM, yes Jan 29 23:20:28 psycho_oreos: any issues with it for you? Jan 29 23:20:51 BCMM, only with hildon-application-manager and its random crashes Jan 29 23:21:31 Can someone with a N900 handy (mine is still in the shop being fixed) run this dbus command and post the results somewhere? Jan 29 23:21:33 dbus-send --session --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.phone.SMS /com/nokia/phone/SMS org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect Jan 29 23:22:00 cool, i'm going to upgrade. how long does it take, vaguely? Jan 29 23:22:00 jonwil, Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.nokia.phone.SMS was not provided by any .service files Jan 29 23:22:19 hmmm, looks like its called something else Jan 29 23:22:27 BCMM, not very long, needs around 5 mins tops, mostly to do with waiting whilst the package gets installed properly after HAM :) Jan 29 23:22:53 psycho_oreos: thanks! Jan 29 23:23:25 BCMM, btw if you have mhd, its suggested to remove that, I have had that issue and I later noted into Installation_FAQ. The fix was actually suggested by MohammadAG which works Jan 29 23:23:31 BCMM, nw Jan 29 23:23:54 thanks, i was going to do that anyway as it seemed like a good idea Jan 29 23:24:37 hmmm, i dont know how you can send the relavent dbus command for that. Jan 29 23:24:37 that was the major road block as to inhibiting me from continuing community CSSU install :) Jan 29 23:25:06 jonwil, not that I know any better but what exactly is it you want to achieve? curiously speaking :) Jan 29 23:25:28 well supposedly csd-sms supports dbus introspection Jan 29 23:25:41 and I want to obtain the dump of said introspection Jan 29 23:25:49 in case it has usefull info for what I am reverse engineering Jan 29 23:26:32 hmm Jan 29 23:27:10 wonder if you could dump available dbus commands and maybe grep from there instead Jan 29 23:27:44 dont know how to dump available dbus commands Jan 29 23:28:07 dfeet ought to help you with that Jan 29 23:28:14 or similar Jan 29 23:28:32 or you could roll your own: look into dbus introspection Jan 29 23:29:01 hmmm, will have to dig more when I get my n900 back I guess :P Jan 29 23:30:11 anyone know if there are any issues with kernel-power and CSSU? Jan 29 23:30:37 marnanel, any idea where dfeet might be available? Jan 29 23:38:01 what's the right way to remove MHD? does one need to explicitely reinstall the original hildon-desktop? Jan 29 23:38:43 BCMM, just dpkg -r, don't purge it, it seems like some CSSU testers/users are facing Ctrl+Backspace non-functionality Jan 29 23:39:26 mine is stated as rc which still leaves configuration files Jan 29 23:39:58 psycho_oreos: presumably, alt-tab is not a default and it only worked right away for you because you still had gconf entries from MHD? Jan 29 23:40:17 psycho_oreos: sorry, i don't understand "mine is stated as rc" Jan 29 23:40:28 possibly because i'm a debian newbie Jan 29 23:41:22 has anyone ever dealt with the site my-maemo.com? Jan 29 23:41:35 BCMM, yes it only worked because of MHD but you cannot proceed installing CSSU if MHD is installed. You need to remove it but not purge it which allows CSSU to be installed and I believe you will still retain functionality Jan 29 23:41:58 psycho_oreos: i don't know the difference between uninstall and purge... Jan 29 23:42:18 BCMM, dpkg -l| grep modified <--- you will see the very first two letters distinguishing the status of the package on the system, ii means instead, etc Jan 29 23:42:24 psycho_oreos: but in any case, i should dpgk -r modified-hildon-desktop? Jan 29 23:43:18 BCMM, I believe uninstall or in dpkg speak: remove; removes the core files but leaves the configuration files behind. purge will not only remove the core files included in the package but also the configuration files therefore it won't leave any more traces Jan 29 23:43:27 BCMM, you meant dpkg -r Jan 29 23:43:36 yeah, typo Jan 29 23:43:51 BCMM, I think its also best for you to also speak in #maemo-ssu where there's testers/users finding out how to get around it :) Jan 29 23:44:12 that and it'll save me from switching between either of the channels :p :) Jan 29 23:47:47 purge will only remove config files that are installed with the package. Jan 29 23:48:12 If the appâ creates config files at run time then they're not guaranteed to be removed. Jan 29 23:54:02 I stand corrected, thanks alterego Jan 29 23:55:43 tbh I don't know the exact behaviour myself, purge might not remove config files that have been modified either. Though I suspect purge was designed to remove modified files and normal apt-get remove wont touch them but probably will remove config files that aren't modified. Jan 29 23:59:45 * alterego wonders off to bed Jan 30 02:01:24 GRRRRR Jan 30 02:01:54 fsckng DSL DHCP / PAP Jan 30 02:23:05 * jonwil wishes his n900 wasn't in the shop being fixed Jan 30 02:23:47 * jonwil wants to try some dbus introspection calls on the SMS logic (its clear that the SMS csd plugin supports introspection in some form) Jan 30 02:24:17 jonwil, you got any new commands for me to give you some feedback with? Jan 30 02:24:24 nope Jan 30 02:24:37 dont know any further steps to try, we need to find someone with dbus know-how :)]\ Jan 30 02:24:41 :) Jan 30 02:24:58 * psycho_oreos grabs MohammadAG Jan 30 02:30:37 * b-man sighs **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 30 02:59:57 2011