**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 31 02:59:57 2011 Jan 31 03:00:10 Id really would like to use android on my n900. but its not stable yet and problems with calling. Jan 31 03:00:11 but microb by ifself mostly works for me... Jan 31 03:00:18 ifself even Jan 31 03:00:23 itself Jan 31 03:00:25 bah Jan 31 03:00:59 it works if you have time. If you are in wc and try to do something useless it works Jan 31 03:01:19 but if you really need something, it has allkind of problems :D Jan 31 03:01:37 brb. Jan 31 03:05:26 im happy enough with microb it only gets stuck when the page has too much content, but after that it works fine Jan 31 03:51:39 Jaffa: NEVER played Fallout. . . . Jan 31 04:56:42 * Dhraakellian sees https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9150 linked from the Marble thread and wonders if it's what he's been getting Jan 31 04:56:43 Bug 9150: Device doesn't respond via UI. syslog reports HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered, sgx_misr eating all CPU Jan 31 04:56:46 * Dhraakellian reads further Jan 31 04:57:04 * Dhraakellian ponders leaving ssh enabled Jan 31 04:58:05 hm Jan 31 04:58:39 I'll take the n900 out of my pocket, and it appears to be off Jan 31 05:00:37 Dhraakellian: the slider used to open a tiny bit in my pocket and then random pressings of the screen made all kinds of shit happen. I bought a leather case for the n900 - problem solved ;) Jan 31 05:00:58 hmm Jan 31 05:01:10 I don't think that's what's happening, but maybe Jan 31 05:01:29 I think it's happened outside of my pocket, but I'm not entirely sure Jan 31 05:02:01 hmm Jan 31 05:02:11 device isn't warm though, in my recollection Jan 31 05:02:17 so it's probably not that bug Jan 31 05:02:42 still, I'll keep sshd enabled Jan 31 05:04:03 Dhraakellian: my n900 has all kinds of stuff running in screen - like irssi, sshfs, ssh, etc and now it is not an issue Jan 31 05:04:28 maybe I'm just being unnecessarily paranoid Jan 31 05:04:36 probably, actually Jan 31 05:06:22 I first encountered the device crash/whatever pretty soon after I installed Rockbox from -devel Jan 31 05:07:53 but it happens even when I haven't run Rockbox on that bootup, so unrelated, methinks Jan 31 05:17:05 ah, frack Jan 31 05:17:28 (unrelated to above) Jan 31 05:51:25 trivia: the gadget (iPhone) of Adam Smith's day was the tweezer. Jan 31 06:26:03 could we PLEASE get rid of this absolutely insane and nuts date format in tmo!? 09-08-10 12:13 AM Jan 31 06:29:02 I'd say that's as unusable and confusing and BS as it gets. can't you use a proper YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM(base24) - PRETTY PLEASE! Jan 31 06:31:52 * RobbieThe1st agrees with DocScrutinizer Jan 31 06:32:47 heh. the USian date format strikes again Jan 31 06:32:55 leaving confusion in its wake Jan 31 06:33:08 Personally, I like YYYYMMDD-HHMMSS for filenames, though(Or Unix Timestamps). But for display, the above's nicer Jan 31 06:33:53 in german they say "three-hundred three and twenty" instead of "three-hundred and twenty-three" Jan 31 06:34:02 I prefer having dashes Jan 31 06:34:04 when i take numbers in dictation that still messes me up Jan 31 06:34:46 DocScrutinizer: how about the americans fix their dates and the germans fix their language Jan 31 06:34:51 otherwise I easily misparse things like 201101 vs 201011 vs 201001 Jan 31 06:35:01 yep Jan 31 06:38:40 haha, USian format - please everybody guess what's the meaning of 09-08-10 in tmo! Jan 31 06:38:55 September, 8th 2010 Jan 31 06:39:30 Do I win? Jan 31 06:49:37 you even get the special brainfart award when you tell me what's that: labcdefghijkLABCDEFGHIJK Jan 31 06:50:33 alphabufferoverflow? Jan 31 06:50:42 That is a name of a long variable? Jan 31 06:50:50 heya johnx Jan 31 06:51:07 hey RST38h. tonight's topic: favorite date formats Jan 31 06:51:11 nah, a perfect enum representation of american hours of a day Jan 31 06:51:37 oh Jan 31 06:51:49 johnx: YYmmdd, isn't it? Jan 31 06:51:50 DocScrutinizer, you know we use that date/time format just to troll people, right? Jan 31 06:52:32 RST38h, on t.m.o? nah. pretty sure they use US date format, so mm-dd-yy Jan 31 06:52:49 though, it should be mm/dd/yy. that at least gives people a chance Jan 31 07:00:27 they fsckng should use a internationally standardized format, or at *very lest* YYYY instead of YY Jan 31 07:00:35 least* Jan 31 07:02:28 Yes Jan 31 07:03:18 Nah. If we used YYYY all the COBOL programmers would be out of jobs Jan 31 07:03:20 I wouldn't even mind them using unix timestamps - this at least would keep me from figuring what the FUCK is the meaning of this 09-10-08, each time again and again Jan 31 07:03:59 Who maintains the site, anyway? Jan 31 07:06:47 Well, Reggie is member 2 (after 'admin') and he still seems to be quite active Jan 31 07:07:29 johnx: I don't see my COBOL jobs vanish when using 01 year pic 9(4). Instead of 01 year pic 9(2). Jan 31 07:08:36 Just you wait *shakes fist* Jan 31 07:08:52 but really, totally braindead measurement systems are like a tradition here Jan 31 07:10:48 tmo isn't the site of the US Tea Party Jan 31 07:11:17 or Ku Klux Klan Jan 31 07:11:44 Doc: Which is about the only two good things about it Jan 31 07:11:52 DocScrutinizer, I agree. Did you have a point? Jan 31 07:15:09 yes: I suggest a complete rework of tmo, to use Finnish Language only, also for dates, fully alphanum. Smash US world dominion, we're fed up with you stuffing down your madness down the world's throat - USA isn't the foundation of all things Jan 31 07:15:57 Hah Jan 31 07:16:03 This is what I meant about us using those date formats to troll people ... Jan 31 07:16:17 yeah, and it works Jan 31 07:17:58 It looks like you can change the data/time format in your user options Jan 31 07:18:39 MPH, MPG, 12AM, MMDDYY, acres, inches Jan 31 07:18:55 inches -> feet -> miles is one of my favorite Jan 31 07:19:08 don't forget the yards Jan 31 07:19:17 Doc: You forgot 110V and oF Jan 31 07:19:24 and ntsc Jan 31 07:19:32 and letter Jan 31 07:19:33 Doc: These two piss me off the most Jan 31 07:19:35 and then the fact that anything smaller than an inch is in a fraction rather than a decimal Jan 31 07:19:45 Meh. I like 110V vs 220V - It hurts less when you shock yourself Jan 31 07:19:55 johnx: Soviets solved this easily once Jan 31 07:19:58 220V hurts. a lot. 110V a bit less. Jan 31 07:19:59 don't put your tongue in the plug Jan 31 07:20:05 s/plug/socket/ Jan 31 07:20:07 Corsac meant: don't put your tongue in the socket Jan 31 07:20:17 johnx: By switching from 0.1" DIP pin spacing to 2.5mm Jan 31 07:20:35 heh Jan 31 07:21:04 johnx: That, of course, meant that a western-made Z80 was about one pin longer than the PCB allowed =) Jan 31 07:21:20 aaaawesome Jan 31 07:21:35 johnx: [you can't imagine the hilarity] Jan 31 07:21:57 that must have been the best prank to pull on the new guy for soooo many years Jan 31 07:22:11 johnx: A newbie is counting pins. There are 40. The newbie is counting holes. There are 40. He tries plugging the chip in...it is one pin longer. Jan 31 07:22:21 "Here, just pop this Z80 in and tell me when you're done" Jan 31 07:22:39 [shake, repeat] Jan 31 07:22:41 You can do that - sorta. Jan 31 07:22:55 If you bend the pins Jan 31 07:22:58 putting it in is hard Jan 31 07:23:06 just use a hammer Jan 31 07:23:09 It works 'OK' for soldering Jan 31 07:24:35 The thing that pisses me off the most is working on cars Jan 31 07:25:48 Usually when I'm working on one I'm not having the best day to begin with, then realizing that even though I have twice as many wrenches as I should (metric + 'customary') I still don't have the *right* one Jan 31 07:26:31 johnx: That's deliberate. Jan 31 07:26:56 RobbieThe1st, a conspiracy between the hardware store and the car companies? Jan 31 07:27:02 People working on cars means less money for the shops. Hence, requiring odd and or special tools to do it. Jan 31 07:27:32 aaaaah, don't forget witworth threads in screws, vs metric Jan 31 07:27:40 I mean... Is there any real reason to use a 12-point 1/2" bolt when a standard 6-point will do? Jan 31 07:28:15 RobbieThe1st, should be less likely to round the head, since there is more contact area Jan 31 07:29:04 Really? The ones I've seen have this odd star-appearance, where the flat surface is actually far smaller than it should be. Oh, and it's -probably- supposed to be a special tool, but a 12-pointer works. Jan 31 07:29:23 (Ford differential-driveline coupling bolts) Jan 31 07:30:20 * jhford debates turning off irc nick monitoring Jan 31 07:30:37 eh? Jan 31 07:30:37 * jhford on shortened versions of his nick Jan 31 07:30:55 when you have a 6-point socket over a 6-point bolt, they're not a perfect fit, so the contact area is actually a smallish area right near the point of the bolt Jan 31 07:31:07 (there are pics somewhere on the internet) Jan 31 07:31:21 It's far worse when you have a chinese tool, let me tell you :\ Jan 31 07:32:34 But still... If everything on the car was 12-point bolts of size X, Y, Z abd W... that'd be one thing. But when the -only- place they are used is the driveline? That's just sad. Jan 31 07:33:32 RobbieThe1st: so the save the "Made in..." tag at least here ;-D Jan 31 07:33:38 they* Jan 31 07:34:17 heh. I remember all the Toyota special service tools Jan 31 07:34:52 they'd have numbers like SST#112, which would be an awl with a slight bend Jan 31 07:35:31 sounds like Ariadne, where 1st stage was built in "metric areas", and 2nd stage in UK. So they got a overflow when convertig meters to feet, of altitude :-P ---> BOOOOOM Jan 31 07:45:08 s/ariadne/Ariane/ http://www.wired.com/software/coolapps/news/2005/11/69355?currentPage=2 Jan 31 07:45:33 makes more sense now :) Jan 31 07:45:53 That Greek goddess didn't seem particularly more buggy than the others ... Jan 31 07:46:44 i thought the UK had entered into the 20th century by now Jan 31 07:48:58 DocScrutinizer: Err - no. Jan 31 07:49:13 DocScrutinizer: no, that was a mars probe Jan 31 07:49:16 DocScrutinizer: the navigation unit outputted diagnostics after it overflowed the designed range. Jan 31 07:49:17 viking or something Jan 31 07:49:54 DocScrutinizer: The designed range was fine in the earlier rocket, and this was correct behaviour. The problem was that the new rocket had a greater delta-v and would normally exceed the range of the INS. Jan 31 07:49:59 ha no, mars climate orbiter Jan 31 07:50:01 DocScrutinizer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter Jan 31 07:50:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5#Notable_launches Jan 31 07:50:26 DocScrutinizer: leading to overflow in the normal use-case, and the rest of the rocet trying to parse the diagnostic data as real nav data Jan 31 07:50:33 well, maybe I mixed sth Jan 31 07:51:36 probably some popular scientific mag in TV gave me incorrect info about it Jan 31 07:52:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5_Flight_501 Jan 31 07:53:24 but I seem to recall the unit tests were done in meters where this error didn't show up, while in real launch that particular system worked based on feet units, which then caused the overflow Jan 31 07:54:24 Nope - I think you're mixing up MCO or somthing else. Jan 31 07:54:38 >>...while 3 others, including the horizontal bias variable, were left unprotected because it was thought that they were "physically limited or that there was a large margin of error"<< Jan 31 08:08:26 well, if the reviews assumed 32k maxint is meters, then for sure they will come to a different notion about how safe this unprotected variable is, than when it actually is using feet Jan 31 08:09:21 There was no unit confusion - it was working well on Ariane 4. Everything on Ariane is in meters, anyway. Jan 31 08:09:53 anyway never mind, maybe I'm completely wrong on this particular one. But that doesn't change the *EVIL* the US unit system is doing to world's sanity Jan 31 08:10:40 AND ESPECIALLY THE MM-DD-YY ERR YY-DD-MM FORMAT OF TMO Jan 31 08:11:50 DocScrutinizer, you did find the place to change it in your profile, right? (on tmo I mean) Jan 31 08:12:09 no, just started looking for it Jan 31 08:15:35 meh, still no YYYY-MM-DD, but extended "european" is good enough. Thanks Jan 31 08:16:11 s/extended/expanded/. Jan 31 08:17:32 * DocScrutinizer thinks DD-MM-YY is NOT any standard european format either Jan 31 08:18:10 DD. MM. YYYY is Jan 31 08:18:20 we usually use dd-mm-yy Jan 31 08:18:35 maybe even DD. MM. YY Jan 31 08:18:49 both 2 and 4 digits for year is fine Jan 31 08:19:00 it differs Jan 31 08:21:26 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datumsformat Jan 31 08:22:38 YY-MM-DD as in ISO 8601:1988 & 2000 is *obsolete* and not valid anymore Jan 31 08:22:48 DD-MM-YY is bogus Jan 31 08:23:34 its still used quite often here Jan 31 08:24:38 :shrug: Jan 31 08:25:00 you can *use* whatever you like - ask luke-jr about tonal system, maybe you love it Jan 31 08:25:34 DD-MM-YY is not valid, never has been, and isn't commonly used in Europe Jan 31 08:26:22 DD. MM. YY or DD. MM. YYYY is very common, and perfectly unambiguous and OK Jan 31 08:27:46 but in case of sorting stuff more of any use is YYYY MM DD if you are lost without date specific sorting algorythm Jan 31 08:28:37 that's the rationale behind ISO 8601:2004 Jan 31 08:29:28 aka DIN5008 Jan 31 08:30:54 took me weeks to get the lab-slaves entitle files in that order Jan 31 08:31:53 btw (listen USA!): ISO means INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS Organization iirc Jan 31 08:32:33 DocScrutinizer, eh, isn't that the the one that approved ooxml? Jan 31 08:32:35 and here i thought it wasn't an acronym, but rather the greek word for "same" Jan 31 08:32:43 * chem|st hopes his device is shipped today :( Jan 31 08:33:31 ieatlint: thought that is UNI Jan 31 08:34:05 oh, my mistake, it's the greek word for equal Jan 31 08:34:08 "the organization adopted ISO based on the Greek word isos (ἴσος), meaning equal " Jan 31 08:34:48 so while it might be OK for a US located BB to use crippled US MM-DD-YY, it is an _offense_ to offer MM_DD_YY as any ""european" format - it's mere BS, take it Jan 31 08:34:58 http://www.iso.org/iso/about/discover-iso_isos-name.htm Jan 31 08:35:11 2nd that! Jan 31 08:35:40 s/DD_MM_YY/DD-MM-YY/ Jan 31 08:35:58 s/MM_DD_YY/DD-MM-YY/ Jan 31 08:35:58 DocScrutinizer meant: so while it might be OK for a US located BB to use crippled US MM-DD-YY, it is an _offense_ to offer DD-MM-YY as any ""european" format - it's mere BS, take it Jan 31 08:36:09 DocScrutinizer, well, then it's a good thing they offer both formats Jan 31 08:36:14 and a choice of 12/24 hour time Jan 31 08:37:18 no johnx - they offer MM-DD-YY (US BS) and DD-MM-YY (bogus shit tagged as "european" which it isn't) Jan 31 08:37:51 wait, what? Jan 31 08:38:08 are you mad about the dashes? Jan 31 08:38:13 you're angry that the DD-MM-YY format is called european? Jan 31 08:38:29 DD-MM-YY is *NOT*, I repeat NOT, any valid or commonly used european date format Jan 31 08:39:18 i can honestly say that's news to me... i've always known european dates to be formatted day/month/year Jan 31 08:39:23 plus doesn't help in any way whatsoever to avoid ambiguity Jan 31 08:39:56 ieatlint: no, / isn't ANY standard in Europe Jan 31 08:40:05 . (dot) is Jan 31 08:40:48 http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html Jan 31 08:40:55 The international standard date notation is Jan 31 08:40:56 YYYY-MM-DD Jan 31 08:41:01 that's what we use in Sweden anyway. Jan 31 08:41:21 as we all learnt from wiki and ISO 8601:2004 Jan 31 08:41:47 heh Jan 31 08:41:54 also, I've never seen . used here either. Jan 31 08:42:24 if someone wrote 31.1.11, i'd not immediately think that's a date Jan 31 08:42:26 24. 12. 2008 is a perfect date format Jan 31 08:42:52 .pp = piratpartiet isp? Jan 31 08:43:29 .pp isn't a tld Jan 31 08:43:38 i know Jan 31 08:43:38 it's built from a dot and a whitespace after day and month, and usually used with a 4 digit year Jan 31 08:43:48 .pp.se, pp = "Private Person" (translated) Jan 31 08:44:06 ah k Jan 31 08:44:18 I registered it in 1996 before it was allowed for non-commercial entities to register directly under .se Jan 31 08:44:27 replacing dot and whitespace by a - isn't making it any more legible Jan 31 08:45:15 DocScrutinizer: it's german notation to do N. to make it ordinal... is that actually true for other languages? Jan 31 08:45:51 I'm not sure about that. ISO8601 doesn't support that format Jan 31 08:46:07 IMO 2010-01-21 is best, IMO Jan 31 08:46:13 +1 Jan 31 08:46:14 but ISO8601 doesn't support DD-MM-YY either Jan 31 08:46:24 remove one IMO of choice :) Jan 31 08:46:33 toresbe: yes, and that's not offered by tmo Jan 31 08:46:41 I always use YYYY-MM-DD because of how it sorts Jan 31 08:47:00 yyyy-mm-dd is good for sorting :) we use dd-mm-yyyy here.. Jan 31 08:47:02 I even find myself signing contracts with that format :) Jan 31 08:47:11 I sometimes use 2011-JAN-31 just to avoid confusion globally, especially when americans are involved. Jan 31 08:47:24 YYYYMMDD's what I end up using, and is especially prevelent in filenames. Jan 31 08:47:25 SwedeMike: isn't that the VMS format? :) Jan 31 08:47:38 toresbe: dunno. Jan 31 08:47:40 or is that JAN-31-2011... Jan 31 08:47:41 trx2: as said above, you can *use* whatever you like, just don't expect others to parse it correctly Jan 31 08:47:52 yeap.. Jan 31 08:47:54 I'd power up my VMS box and test... Jan 31 08:48:02 but can't be arsed Jan 31 08:48:56 and here my crazy self follows one of the most widely used notations in the computer industry Jan 31 08:49:04 mm/dd/yy :P Jan 31 08:49:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iso8601 Jan 31 08:49:21 ieatlint: yuck. Jan 31 08:49:32 i dont know why would anyone create such format "mm-dd-yyyy" Jan 31 08:49:41 its just... wrong :/ Jan 31 08:49:58 absolutely. Jan 31 08:50:00 horrible. Jan 31 08:50:12 this discussion makes about as much sense as the ones that insist people should change their language to get rid of irregular verbs Jan 31 08:50:20 sounds great, good luck convincing anyone Jan 31 08:50:31 :)) Jan 31 08:50:36 yeah Jan 31 08:50:58 ieatlint, you should change your language to get rid of irregular verbs Jan 31 08:51:03 ieatlint: we could discuss the finer points of the metric system as well? Jan 31 08:51:09 we'll see the metric system here in the US before we see dd/mm/yy :P Jan 31 08:51:47 I'm actually annoyed that mythbusters mix metric and ancient so often, they should go 100% metric. Jan 31 08:52:03 johnx: no, we prefer them, it helps us make fun of people trying to learn english, and the less-educated "native" speakers Jan 31 08:52:16 SwedeMike: that's standard here Jan 31 08:52:42 science measurements are typically metric, but relative measurements for day to day stuff are imperial Jan 31 08:52:57 it's a big grab bag Jan 31 08:53:06 if they start talking about cars going 90kmh, people here would get confused :P Jan 31 08:54:17 ieatlint: BS. tmo is trying to convince me to either learn english language, or some gibberish they claim is European though it's NOT Jan 31 08:54:31 ...for date formats Jan 31 08:55:13 yeah, i'd agree that's unfortunate Jan 31 08:55:21 I always treated date separators the same way I treat sed s statements: be consistent any sane parser will just figure it out Jan 31 08:55:42 indeed Jan 31 08:56:39 ieatlint: and I don't mind you making mythbusters using aegyptian steps for length, and the pharao calendar for dates. But in tmo I *hate* seeing DD-MM-YY tagged as "european" and being the only 'alternative' to fsckdup US format Jan 31 08:57:23 well, have you bitched at someone who can fix it? Jan 31 08:57:27 complain there > http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/148-vBulletin-4-Suggestions Jan 31 09:12:37 Morning, all Jan 31 09:12:50 GeneralAntilles: Me neither. I had to Google "PIP-BOY"! Jan 31 09:27:01 MohammadAG: ping Jan 31 10:05:19 "Dr. Bright is no longer allowed to play "Hippocratic Oath Chicken" with the medical staff." Jan 31 10:31:53 Venemo, ping Jan 31 10:31:55 err, pong Jan 31 10:32:19 hey MohammadAG :) Jan 31 10:32:37 I wanted to ask you something about scratchbox, but I already solved it Jan 31 10:34:20 :) Jan 31 10:35:14 MohammadAG: yesterday I learned how to cherry pick with git. which is good news, because I can get to work :P Jan 31 10:40:11 Venemo, cool :D Jan 31 10:49:44 cssu looks very professional :) Jan 31 10:51:27 I'd like to thank Jaffa for that, he does everything professionally :) Jan 31 10:59:24 :) Jan 31 11:00:48 MohammadAG: :-) Jan 31 11:00:53 MohammadAG: Thanks to you for taking the initiative Jan 31 11:01:30 MohammadAG, Jaffa: Congrats on getting it out of the door. Jan 31 11:02:10 X-Fade: Thanks for your help with the repo Jan 31 11:02:34 Jaffa, X-Fade Thanks for all the help :) Jan 31 11:02:36 Jaffa: Meh, that part is easy. Jan 31 11:02:52 hi there. I just posted on t.m.o, want to give away sources for vexed (the game i had writen) Jan 31 11:03:11 as I not any more interested in maemo development. Jan 31 11:03:44 rmrfchik, that's very cool of you Jan 31 11:06:04 rmrfchik: :/ But cool. Jan 31 11:06:29 * SpeedEvil wishes nokia had handled maemo a bit better. Jan 31 11:07:42 really. we could be sitting here talking about how android and ios are kinda neat, but they'll just never catch up to nokia's incredible head start Jan 31 11:12:33 johnx: yes, cool. but sources needs new master ;) will you? Jan 31 11:13:29 rmrfchik, I'm not much of a game programmer. :| I just wanted to say that I appreciate what you're doing. Jan 31 11:14:43 rmrfchik: URL for the TMO thread? I'll include it in today's MWKN if ietherpad.com ever responds... Jan 31 11:16:11 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=69167 Jan 31 11:20:07 is promotion from extras-testing to extras per-version or per-application? Jan 31 11:20:43 err, CSSU gone 'public'? pointer? Jan 31 11:21:21 DocScrutinizer51: #maemo-ssu :) Jan 31 11:21:38 XFade <-- too fast Jan 31 11:21:39 hmm Jan 31 11:23:18 DocScrutinizer51: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, http://maemo.org/news/ etc. etc. Jan 31 11:25:42 hmm.. just wonder, can I use my old n810 as kind of wifi-repeater? Jan 31 11:26:41 rmrfchik, probably not, since it doesn't support "Host" aka "Access Point" mode Jan 31 11:29:15 johnx: is this HW limitations? Jan 31 11:29:39 I don't know enough to say whether it's a hardware limitation or a driver limitation Jan 31 11:31:09 hardware is a fuzzy term Jan 31 11:31:20 It's likely to be the firmware not supporting it, not the hardware Jan 31 11:31:34 ah, yes. that sounds familiar Jan 31 11:36:42 what is the '^' sign called in configs for xmodmap, setxkbmap etc? Jan 31 11:36:50 Caret? Jan 31 11:36:55 thx Jan 31 11:44:56 SpeedEvil: fyi: circumflex Jan 31 11:45:48 No, I'm uncut. Jan 31 12:14:34 /usr/share/X11/XKeysymDB or X11/lib/XKeysymDB Jan 31 12:36:18 names Jan 31 12:36:21 Bah. Jan 31 12:36:27 (afternoon, all) Jan 31 13:09:24 hi Jan 31 13:10:11 my Conversations convos all have a scrollbar instead of scrolling the hildonized way, any idea how i can fix that? Jan 31 13:12:24 TiagoTiago: no, but you can CC on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11559 . Please no "me too" comments, but if you remember what you've done recently a comment is welcome Jan 31 13:12:26 Bug 11559: Conversations App - Scrollbar Appeared, Touch Scrolling Does Not Work Jan 31 13:12:26 it's a gray scrolbar in case that makes any differehncde Jan 31 13:12:47 ah, it's a known bug, ok, thanx Jan 31 13:21:27 hm, i have an account elsewhere on maemo.org do i need to create another one on bugzilla? Jan 31 13:22:41 yes Jan 31 13:23:31 ok Jan 31 13:27:52 who can change a bug status to confirmed and under what circunstances? Jan 31 13:44:20 is there a way to make it so a certain program will always when loaded be set to a certain priority? Jan 31 13:54:49 TiagoTiago: invoke via `nice -n ` Jan 31 13:55:27 does that make it permanent or only for this run? Jan 31 13:55:28 TiagoTiago: to increase prio (negative niceness) you also might need to run nice as root Jan 31 13:55:50 TiagoTiago: obviously for the time it's invoked like that Jan 31 13:56:45 ok, so i need to change the .desktop file to make it permanent? Jan 31 13:56:54 for increasing prio, you'd need sth like `sudo nice -n -10 su -l user ` Jan 31 13:57:03 yes Jan 31 13:57:05 http://openssl.org/news/secadv_20101202.txt oops Jan 31 13:57:11 missed that Jan 31 14:04:56 TiagoTiago: NB priority doesn't directly affect speed of execution. It just sorts the processes into groups that may interrupt/suspend other lower prio processes Jan 31 14:05:12 i know Jan 31 14:06:05 i.e. as long as there's no process with lower niceness aka higher prio actually *running*, it will help nothing to change your process' niceness Jan 31 14:06:29 s/lower/lower or equal/ Jan 31 14:06:29 DocScrutinizer meant: i.e. as long as there's no process with lower or equal niceness aka higher prio actually *running*, it will help nothing to change your process' niceness Jan 31 14:06:52 the way this game keeps having lag spikes feels more like it's other programs in the background deciding to scratch an itch Jan 31 14:06:59 * alterego wonders what sorting algo they use. Jan 31 14:07:06 Probably a basic list :) Jan 31 14:07:28 TiagoTiago: what game? Jan 31 14:07:30 TiagoTiago: more likely it's waiting for swap Jan 31 14:07:42 Driver Jan 31 14:07:55 No idea what that is Jan 31 14:08:09 from the Palm Pre Jan 31 14:08:33 Oh so it's a quite intensive 3D GLES game Jan 31 14:08:54 That's to be expected to be honest, especially if it has a lot of textures Jan 31 14:09:05 And/Or other game data. Jan 31 14:09:12 i also noticed similar sporadic lag spikes in other games, overclocking seemed to help making things smoother, but i would rather avoid OC'ing when possible Jan 31 14:09:18 yeah, swap and/or file IO Jan 31 14:09:49 * alterego wonders what the spec is of the palm pre Jan 31 14:10:02 Is it better than the N900 memory wise? Jan 31 14:10:08 TiagoTiago: clean out ram, so the game has more of it to hog with Jan 31 14:11:15 is there a way to force everything that is running to go to tthe swap and only bring back to RAM what is used from this point on? Jan 31 14:11:46 lol, I think that's what maemo does, with swappiness=100 Jan 31 14:12:21 so probably no need to "do" it, it's already done Jan 31 14:13:26 how do I use my N900 as a video source on my PC? Jan 31 14:13:30 no, i mean, i hit a button and everything currently on rRAM goes to swap and RAM gets empty, and then only things that are acessed on the swap are broughtg back to RAM on a first come basis Jan 31 14:13:33 there are things like rtcom-cal-ui that are pinned to RAM though, and mustn't swap out Jan 31 14:13:58 there is a thread on TMO about using the N900 as a "webcam" for PCs Jan 31 14:14:07 TMO? Jan 31 14:14:16 TiagoTiago: see above, that's what swappiness=100 does all the time, w/o you hitting a button Jan 31 14:14:23 what would happen if those get swapped out? Jan 31 14:14:24 ~tmo Jan 31 14:14:25 tmo is probably http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo Jan 31 14:14:33 Theoretically if you made an app that hogged shitloads of memory it'd push everything else to swap Jan 31 14:15:08 it's not such a good idea in practice Jan 31 14:15:36 Oh, i see, whatever is used the most recent stays on the fast RAM by default Jan 31 14:16:02 no, maemo swaps out everything, to have more free ram Jan 31 14:16:04 It's better to start with 0 used swap, since it's still pretty fast before it gets fragmented Jan 31 14:16:11 when swappiness=100 Jan 31 14:16:14 afaik Jan 31 14:16:26 so the game is filling up all the RAM and then some? Jan 31 14:16:58 then maemo uses the same freed RAM as buffer for file-IO Jan 31 14:17:30 Mohammad: Got a question Jan 31 14:18:05 Mohammad: Has anyone considered introducing all h-d hacks into cssu h-d, but making them configurable via the same config file as everything else? Jan 31 14:18:10 TiagoTiago: set swappiness down to a lower value, and see if that helps Jan 31 14:18:39 is there a program like StorageSpace but for RAM and swap? Jan 31 14:18:51 By "all hacks" I mean: 1)fast app menu scroll 2) bg desaturation 3) task switcher that only shows 2 or 1 app Jan 31 14:19:04 Even at swappiness 100 it doesn't actually swap anything out unless there's something that wants ram... The higher swappiness, the more equal the kernel treats different kinda of used memory. With swappiness 1 it goes to great lengths to not eject anonymous memory pages from ram, which might make it slower as it might be reading and dropping other stuff from disk instead :P Jan 31 14:19:17 TiagoTiago: swappouble Jan 31 14:19:18 TiagoTiago: stop processes that you are sure you don't need to start up rapidly during playing, like browserd, rtcom-call-ui, whatnot Jan 31 14:19:52 btw, for me half an hour of mobile firefox is enough to exhaust unfragmented swap, which causes a noticeable slowdown :) Jan 31 14:20:23 Hm, a prog to do temporary optimizations for gaming would be nice Jan 31 14:20:50 ShadowJK:Not surprising =( Jan 31 14:20:55 On Maemo4 I used to do swapoff/swapon before launching a game Jan 31 14:21:17 Andit won't stop unless they break away from XUL, i.e. never =) Jan 31 14:21:51 RST38h: 3)????? Jan 31 14:21:53 messing with transitions should be left to themes and transition tweaking programs, i would rather not have my custom transitions overridden needlessly during an update Jan 31 14:22:26 on Maemo5 turning off swap triggers low-ram messages to be sent to the OS, causing all sorts of apps to shutdown, so it's not a good idea. As I have swap on microsd, I do, swapoff microsd, swapon -p 10 microsd, swapoff emmc ; swapon -p 5 emmc Jan 31 14:22:34 Doc: There was a modification to h-d that showed the task switcher in vaguely "Meego"style, scrollable list, only one appshown at a time Jan 31 14:22:53 yeah, thp made that Jan 31 14:23:01 whenever I go over the fragmentation threshold Jan 31 14:23:15 RST38h: YUCK Jan 31 14:23:21 Doc: the problem is, thp's code is compiled in,not configurable Jan 31 14:23:22 My background goes 180 hue with weird CA-like pseudo blurring Jan 31 14:23:38 Doc: Some people like it. Jan 31 14:23:56 for fuck's sake Jan 31 14:24:04 why the fuck does my sim keeps disconnecting Jan 31 14:24:15 yeah, I just wonder what the hospitals actually do with all the live donated brain they get day after day Jan 31 14:24:40 the little metal prongs are bent flat away from the chip, or the pads on the chip got too big dents? Jan 31 14:25:24 also, are you sure you locked the holder in place? Jan 31 14:25:37 MohammadAG, does it reliably happen when you press yhujikol on keyboard by a firm thumb on button and finger on back cover type of grip? :-) Jan 31 14:25:41 meego == fsckng Mickey Mouse OS Jan 31 14:25:46 lol Jan 31 14:26:02 "yhujikol" must be a swear word. Jan 31 14:26:09 In Finnish, I guess Jan 31 14:26:10