**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 06 02:59:57 2011 Feb 06 03:00:09 * Dhraakellian would, of course, prefer zypper, but that's probably in a large part because he's an openSUSE user and is used to it Feb 06 03:31:15 How many of you have accidently put your N900 into a bucket of water ? Feb 06 03:31:54 :D Feb 06 03:31:55 why Feb 06 03:32:31 mine felled last night Feb 06 03:32:43 and now its struggling to boot up :( Feb 06 03:33:26 daxt: remove battery immediately, let sit for a couple days? Feb 06 03:33:39 that sux.. i've gotten mine wet, but not completely wet like that Feb 06 03:34:05 i saw a youtube vid of some guy that stuck his n900 in a bucket of rice for a few hours. the phone worked after that Feb 06 03:34:06 its already removed , camera lense has some moisture inside Feb 06 03:34:27 i am sure that PCB in the phone is intact Feb 06 03:34:43 rice soaks up moisture Feb 06 03:35:16 raw rice, of course. not cooked lol Feb 06 03:36:02 * Dhraakellian does not like HAM Feb 06 03:39:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y030QJbaUus Feb 06 03:40:08 daxt: stick it in a bag of desiccant or if you don't have any on hand, rice. Feb 06 03:40:30 daxt: trying to power it on while it's wet will mess stuff up. Feb 06 03:41:00 it tries to boot up Feb 06 03:41:14 i see the 4 white dots Feb 06 03:41:23 and suddenly fone turns off Feb 06 03:50:13 a few years ago i jumped into a pool with my phone in my pocket. lol! but what i did was wrap up the phone with some clothes and stuck in the dryer for an hour or so.. Feb 06 03:51:01 after that it worked fine... of course, it was a simple flip phone.. i don't know if that's a good idea with the n900 Feb 06 03:51:30 without Electricity in it , N900 shud be water proof Feb 06 03:51:44 :o Feb 06 03:54:28 as long as there is no current in it , metals are water proof for short period of time :D Feb 06 03:55:05 i don't know what it's called, but sometimes some products are shipped with little balls that look like they're made of gel or silicone... i think those are for moisture. Feb 06 03:55:43 if you happen to have a lot of those lying around maybe you could stick your phone in some of that Feb 06 03:58:20 why can i not update maemo ota? i keep getting this message: "To update your device to this version of the operating system you must use Nokia PC Suite on your PC. Connect the device to your PC via a USB cable and launch the application." Feb 06 04:00:06 this sucks. i deleted a whole bunch of stuff from the rootfs thinking it was because there wasn't enough space to do the update. apparently it's not because of that. :( Feb 06 05:03:38 desiccant Feb 06 05:03:42 * Dhraakellian had to spellcheck that Feb 06 07:00:04 anybody else having repository issues with my-maemo.com? Feb 06 08:38:10 Hey, haven't been around for a while. Does anyone know if tweakr is pretty much obsolete and replaced by ProfileX? Feb 06 08:38:19 just because it's relevant to one of my packages Feb 06 08:44:32 Shapeshifter, I googled a bit and got the same impression Feb 06 08:45:32 ah, then I found this: http://maemo.org/packages/view/tweakr/ and this http://maemo.org/packages/view/profilesx/ Feb 06 08:49:28 my browser crashes often if there are more than 2 windows open - especially if it's showing scripty pages like gmail :( Feb 06 08:53:20 noodles900, it might be worth trying the the 'smartphone' version: http://mail.google.com/mail/x/gdlakb-/gp/ Feb 06 08:53:34 (this is for gmail at least) Feb 06 08:55:33 johnx: is that not just the "plain html" page? Feb 06 08:55:45 nope. It's the "iphone and android" version Feb 06 08:56:12 ok - let's see ;) Feb 06 08:56:32 it has a bit of JS for things like collapsible conversations, but it doesn't have much Feb 06 08:59:00 * noodles900 waits for gprs..... Feb 06 08:59:54 loaded in about 2 minutes :) Feb 06 09:00:30 heh Feb 06 09:00:41 Seemed insanely fast on my desktop Feb 06 09:00:44 * johnx shrugs Feb 06 09:00:51 johnx: thanks - I'll play with that for a while. Looks strange but we'll see Feb 06 09:01:34 A lot of other sites have 'iphone' or 'android' versions that might be worth looking into Feb 06 09:02:03 On the N900 they usually detect the N900's browser as firefox (since it's based on firefox) and they feed it the heavy desktop site Feb 06 09:02:16 Also, it's worth seeing if turning off flash helps Feb 06 09:02:30 Flash ads can be a killer on performance/battery life/responsiveness Feb 06 09:04:30 where's the "off" switch for flash? Feb 06 09:06:58 uhm, disable the plugin Feb 06 09:07:05 I don't have my phone in front of me Feb 06 09:07:13 I think you can get flashblock as well. Feb 06 09:07:41 ^^ Feb 06 09:08:00 There;s a nice userscript in the repos that acts like Flashblock Feb 06 09:08:04 yea looking for flashblock ... Feb 06 09:08:26 RobbieThe1st: what's it called? Feb 06 09:08:57 adflashblock-css Feb 06 09:09:53 RobbieThe1st: tks :) Feb 06 09:10:29 np Feb 06 09:16:44 well. moo. Feb 06 09:47:55 morning Feb 06 09:56:26 hey all, is there a good Neo Geo emu for the N900? Feb 06 10:08:38 DocScrutinizer51: meego talk on fosdem Feb 06 10:08:44 DocScrutinizer51: still nothing about maemo Feb 06 10:18:48 Why would there be anything about maemo? Feb 06 10:21:51 good morning Feb 06 10:21:56 mo Feb 06 10:26:01 is there any online stream of the talks? Feb 06 10:26:26 lardman: if you mean the channel log, then yes Feb 06 10:26:47 morning DocScrutinizer Feb 06 10:26:52 no I meant the Fosdem talks Feb 06 10:27:26 unless there's someone furiously typing away transcribing the proceedings :) Feb 06 10:27:29 oh, I dunno Feb 06 10:31:24 hmm I really could do with a double height task bar Feb 06 10:34:36 Debian Squeeze is out Feb 06 10:36:01 morning MohammadAG :) Feb 06 10:36:36 morning Venemo Feb 06 10:39:04 MohammadAG: I'm now adding portrait support to puzzle-master :) Feb 06 11:00:01 DocScrutinizer51: stskeeps is doing that talk about meego Feb 06 11:00:46 jacekowski: well, that's not any surprise, no? Feb 06 11:16:30 if I touch the screen, lift my finger and quickly touch the screen somewhere else, the touch is still registered at the old position. Is this tweakable ? Feb 06 11:22:23 CND Feb 06 11:25:08 by quickly I mean really really quickly. Feb 06 11:29:37 jacktheripper: worksforme Feb 06 11:30:35 oh I think it's so fast it doesn't notice the lift. It averages, but on preenv games for example it uses only the first touch position. nevermind :) Feb 06 11:32:45 alterego: ping Feb 06 11:32:54 jacktheripper: maybe you have a faulty n900 Feb 06 11:33:42 Venemo, no no, it's the application supporting capacitive touch only I think. as I said, only happens on preenv. Feb 06 11:34:20 jacktheripper: mhmm Feb 06 11:34:21 or the game just doesn't sense movement. (doesn't need to) Feb 06 11:39:58 greeting Feb 06 11:41:48 is there a web page explaining how/what to free in rootfs? Feb 06 11:42:57 Smhar: yes, in the wiki Feb 06 11:44:28 I only have 37mb free and I want to upgrade to PR1.3 Feb 06 11:46:22 btw. is there a way to make N900 activate bluetooth when a call is made or answered and disconnect blue toth when a call is ended, thus saving battery life Feb 06 11:48:52 sorry, got disconnected Feb 06 11:48:56 btw. is there a way to make N900 activate bluetooth when a call is made or answered and disconnect blue toth when a call is ended, thus saving battery life Feb 06 11:55:56 Salman: if you want to save battery life, then don't enable bluetooth at all Feb 06 11:56:48 Also - most bluetooth devices will go to sleep once disconnected for a few mins Feb 06 11:56:59 Requiring you to press a button to re-pair Feb 06 12:07:53 Venemo: pong Feb 06 12:13:20 alterego: I'm making progress Feb 06 12:13:30 Cool Feb 06 12:13:39 alterego: all thanks to your help yesterday :) Feb 06 12:13:44 :) Feb 06 12:14:13 In regards to your performance issues, it's more about spreading the load across gpu/cpu Feb 06 12:14:21 Also, are you running fullscreen? Feb 06 12:14:37 alterego: not yet, but I will be soon Feb 06 12:14:51 Well, gl works like crap when not fullscreen Feb 06 12:14:58 (on the N900) Feb 06 12:16:32 alterego: it works very well now that I eliminated the overhead Feb 06 12:16:43 cool, bbiab Feb 06 12:26:45 alterego: I would need some help with something though Feb 06 12:29:33 MohammadAG: Didn't you do something like http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2011-February/028093.html which rotated any app? Feb 06 12:30:50 Jaffa: are you referring to 'rotatedaemon' in -devel? Feb 06 12:30:56 thats not a problem, setting a rotation flag Feb 06 12:31:04 problem is the app layout Feb 06 12:31:07 afaik.. Feb 06 12:31:36 trx: yeah. Feb 06 12:32:52 Jaffa, nope Feb 06 12:33:15 Venemo: Yeah, guess so Feb 06 12:39:59 Venemo: what's that then? Feb 06 12:41:40 alterego: I'd like to find an algorythm to place the pieces to a reasonable place when the app is resized [eg. via autorotation] Feb 06 12:41:41 Venemo, rotatedaemon works with xrandr directly I think Feb 06 12:41:45 cc Jaffa ^ Feb 06 12:41:58 MohammadAG: correct Feb 06 12:42:06 w00t_ daemonized it iirc Feb 06 12:42:50 Venemo: well, you want them in random positions and not overlapping too much right? Feb 06 12:42:51 I need some help with a shell script Feb 06 12:42:57 http://pastebin.com/5QxnkfwF Feb 06 12:43:20 Also, when rotating you probably want to sub divide them again to make the rows shorter for portrait Feb 06 12:43:44 Like 6x4 for landscape and 4x6 for portrait, or something. Feb 06 12:47:47 Venemo: get my last two messages? Feb 06 12:50:28 [: 17: =: unexpected operator <-- what does this mean? Feb 06 12:52:29 MohammadAG: $answer = "y" Feb 06 12:53:17 alterego, already fixed that, sec Feb 06 12:53:17 You should probably quote $answer too Feb 06 12:53:58 http://pastebin.com/VtvhkvFH alterego Feb 06 12:54:22 Y/y/N/n work fine Feb 06 12:54:38 but I expect it to default to Y if the user presses enter Feb 06 12:54:45 (similar to apt-get) Feb 06 12:54:53 and it does that, but shows 4 errors Feb 06 12:55:16 [: 17: =: unexpected operator *4 Feb 06 12:59:29 hey again Feb 06 12:59:36 it disconnected again... :( Feb 06 13:00:29 alterego: actually I scale the graphics view very well when rotated Feb 06 13:01:11 alterego: the 'only glitch' is that I want the pieces to appear at better places Feb 06 13:01:47 alterego: I'm also getting a resize event at the beginning of the app in which the size of the graphics view is 100×30... Feb 06 13:18:27 Venemo: yeah, that happens. Part of Qt unfortunately. You should be able to setFixedSize maybe .. Feb 06 13:18:57 alterego: nah, I just don't do anything for the first resize event Feb 06 13:19:49 alterego: I'm thinking of linking to your libRXsupport for the fullscreen button Feb 06 13:20:06 :) Feb 06 13:20:33 Well, you only really need the header file .. Feb 06 13:20:38 But it's up to you Feb 06 13:20:38 alterego: is it transparent? Feb 06 13:20:43 Yeah Feb 06 13:21:21 alterego: I'm thinking about where should I put the button on my UI Feb 06 13:21:28 can someone confirm that dsme-thermalobject-surface is installed by default? Feb 06 13:21:36 i.e just check if it's installed on your device Feb 06 13:21:59 MohammadAG: yes Feb 06 13:22:39 Venemo: Well, top right is quite consistent I think Feb 06 13:23:12 alterego: top right? I haven't seen it there in any apps yet Feb 06 13:24:54 alterego: it's bottom right in the browser Feb 06 13:25:00 Oh yeah Feb 06 13:25:12 Well, it's bottom right in Columbus Feb 06 13:25:28 alterego: problem with bottom right is that the user might click on it accidentally when he wants to grap a puzzle piece Feb 06 13:25:37 Yeah Feb 06 13:35:04 alterego: is showFullscreen() enough or I should set something else too? Feb 06 13:41:49 it's enough for FS Feb 06 13:42:03 ok, thanks Feb 06 13:43:23 hmm Feb 06 13:43:24 is this a bug? Feb 06 13:43:31 a Hildon banner rotates my app back to landscape Feb 06 13:46:34 this is only true for banners that are system modal Feb 06 13:47:31 Venemo, if it's parented that shouldn't happen Feb 06 13:47:47 Hi, im making a qt based homescreen widget, I want to open a dialog if the widget is pressed, i assume the normal connect signal->slot mechanism should be used, but i dont know which to use, the qtcreator IDE sugests only a few of which none seem relevant / or work. What should i use? Feb 06 13:48:29 dan2003: if you want something when a button on the widget is pressed, the use clicked() Feb 06 13:48:51 dan2003: if you want the entire widget to react to clicks, read up on mousePressEvent() and mouseReleaseEvent() Feb 06 13:50:32 Venemo: ah, ok, thanks :) the latter sounds like what i want Feb 06 13:50:35 MohammadAG: it doesn't happen when it's parented Feb 06 13:52:55 Venemo: yaay! thx that works :) Feb 06 13:53:08 dan2003: :) Feb 06 13:54:06 hmm.. but with an issue, (which i can work around) it present a dialog, but when i press a button in it it acts as if i have pressed the widget which is underneath (another home screen widget) Feb 06 13:54:29 ill move that dialog out of the way for now Feb 06 13:55:12 dan2003: well you have to take care of such cases for yourself Feb 06 13:55:20 dan2003: what widget will that be, btw? Feb 06 13:55:51 i just treid and this happens for both the contact widget, (present the call dialog) and the facebook widget (opens browser) Feb 06 13:56:18 if either are under the area where my dialog comes up, they seem to have mouse focus instead. Feb 06 13:56:53 dan2003: interesting Feb 06 14:16:43 oh god, Android does truly suck. Feb 06 14:17:03 * javispedro 's downloaded the SDK ... Feb 06 14:17:59 javispedro: yeah... I agree Feb 06 14:18:27 javispedro: we learned a bit about android dev (I had a course called mobile Linux applications), and it sucked. Feb 06 14:18:45 I couldn't believe a day would come where I would _crave_ for busybox. Feb 06 14:18:55 yes, the android builtin shell is that bad. Feb 06 14:19:11 and the libc? Feb 06 14:19:20 the best way to describe it: it's like a deconstruction of unix. Feb 06 14:20:24 javispedro, hah Feb 06 14:20:32 I like how most commands fail in the android shell Feb 06 14:20:47 either Permission Denied or no output at all Feb 06 14:22:14 you want to use sysv or posix ipc? sorry! we instead offer you our crappy "Android SHM" with no support for semaphores, mutexes, or anything. We're only single core! For performance! Feb 06 14:27:27 * javispedro rants some more, quietly. Feb 06 14:28:51 symbian is more posixy than this... Feb 06 14:29:36 which is quite, quite sad. Feb 06 14:34:16 lol Feb 06 14:34:30 I found no hints of posix in symbian :) Feb 06 14:34:33 hahaha Feb 06 14:35:07 I found DBus on Symbian^3 Feb 06 14:35:19 there's DBus on it? Feb 06 14:35:25 there's even glibc Feb 06 14:35:31 oh wow Feb 06 14:35:47 (see the open C stuff) Feb 06 14:36:01 so, symbian implements sysvipc. bionic does not. Feb 06 14:36:28 ebay germany lists the N900 as having AMOLED screen Feb 06 14:36:32 Is console io still broken? Feb 06 14:36:37 _o| \o| \o/ |o/ |o_ Feb 06 14:36:43 on S^3? Feb 06 14:36:45 pupnik: ebay? probably a seller? Feb 06 14:36:45 I did not check, but I'm sure they even fully implement pthreads, bionic does not. Feb 06 14:36:48 etc. Feb 06 14:36:53 korhojoa: no, ebay. not the seller. ebay Feb 06 14:36:56 pupnik: haha. Feb 06 14:37:00 whaa :D Feb 06 14:37:08 idiots Feb 06 14:38:17 I haven't seen symbian^3 :) Feb 06 14:38:18 or rather, a job filled by the wrong person Feb 06 14:38:31 My E75 has s60v3fp2 oe something Feb 06 14:38:40 or* Feb 06 14:39:05 ShadowJK: i think it's got fp3 Feb 06 14:39:15 there's no FP3 for V3 Feb 06 14:39:30 really? :< Feb 06 14:39:35 yes Feb 06 14:39:37 saddened, I am. Feb 06 14:39:43 FP2 is the last one Feb 06 14:39:48 but there is one for v1 Feb 06 14:39:55 or 2 Feb 06 14:40:33 Unannounced Nokia X7-00 and C5-04 Found on Ovi Store <- lol fail Feb 06 14:40:48 clearly, those are atom phones! Feb 06 14:41:00 * ShadowJK wonders about C6-01, does it exist yet Feb 06 14:41:06 MohammadAG: :D Feb 06 14:41:12 http://mynokiablog.com/2011/02/06/unannounced-nokia-x7-00-and-unknown-nokia-x5-04-leaked-on-ovi-store/ Feb 06 15:08:44 ShadowJK: depends on your country I guess Feb 06 15:10:43 and let's not forget that deep down, every phone has an atom or two (or a billion...) in it :) Feb 06 15:12:11 need to learn GTK or find a way to start Qt apps faster :/ Feb 06 15:12:34 boost 'em Feb 06 15:12:48 something that harmattan will probably already have Feb 06 15:13:01 achipa: is the qt booster already one? Feb 06 15:13:04 *open Feb 06 15:13:14 alterego: are you still here? Feb 06 15:13:39 javispedro, well, I want to rewrite control panel applets that don't behave Feb 06 15:14:19 hum, that is a no go, as the control panel itself acts as a gtk+ booster.. Feb 06 15:14:41 digital-8 camcorders still fetch insane prices Feb 06 15:14:47 that's why I want to learn gtk Feb 06 15:14:55 Qt applets work fine, they just hang the UI for 2s or so Feb 06 15:15:01 while gtk applets are instant Feb 06 15:15:48 shouldn't be too hard, I think Feb 06 15:16:08 unfortunately bare gtk+ will mostly slow you down.. Feb 06 15:16:22 (I mean, as a coder :) ) Feb 06 15:16:24 javispedro: uhm, I think I saw some of that stuff in MTF, not sure how easily transplantable would that be to plain qt Feb 06 15:17:04 javispedro: and of course something by the name of another well esatblished library is not helping searches... Feb 06 15:17:08 javispedro, what do you mean by "bare gtk+"? Feb 06 15:17:21 MohammadAG: "not vala" =) Feb 06 15:17:34 why would it slow me down? Feb 06 15:17:40 GObject? Feb 06 15:17:53 exactly. Feb 06 15:18:16 Venemo: yeah, what's up? Feb 06 15:18:32 achipa: oh. fremantle had a skeleton qt booster module, but it does nothing (apart from NOT preloading gtk+ libs, which is already nice =) ). Feb 06 15:18:43 vala, I recall qwerty12 mentioned that in one of his sources Feb 06 15:19:57 alterego: I managed to do most of what I wanted but I still have a glitch :( Feb 06 15:20:31 Mo Feb 06 15:21:11 * javispedro recently develop the theory that Gtk+ applications usually have less featured (aka "simpler") GUIs because it is more time consuming to create and implement a Gtk+ GUI =) Feb 06 15:21:26 which I'm not sure is a bad or good thing :) Feb 06 15:22:09 alterego: accept my invitation to ##puzzle-master Feb 06 15:22:54 javispedro, lol Feb 06 15:23:23 javispedro: you can use gtkmm if you want something simpler Feb 06 15:23:25 javispedro, the notification light applet is an example Feb 06 15:23:27 or vala Feb 06 15:23:33 yeah, or vala Feb 06 15:23:38 it's just 6 checkboxes and a save button Feb 06 15:24:08 which I'm guessing is 6 HildonCheckButtons and a HildonPannableArea Feb 06 15:24:37 the save button's probably a GtkButton right? Feb 06 15:24:43 and the dialog is a GtkDialog Feb 06 15:24:52 the button is probably managed by the GtkDialog itself Feb 06 15:24:56 MohammadAG: probably HildonButton and HildonDialog, not sure about the latter. Feb 06 15:25:06 there's a GtkDialog construct that accepts a set of stock button and their actions Feb 06 15:25:09 *constructor Feb 06 15:25:12 MohammadAG: but javispedro is right, it may be handled by the dialog itself Feb 06 15:25:19 HildonDialog is deprecated in fremantle, use gtkdialog Feb 06 15:30:13 use qt Feb 06 15:30:43 jacekowski, too slow for control panel applets Feb 06 15:30:57 stock applets open instantly Feb 06 15:32:07 because the host app is a gtk+ one, so it just calls the applet's show function. While with a QT applet it has to link with all the Qt libs, then do static, dynamic initialization, etc. Feb 06 15:33:27 How do I do that? Feb 06 15:33:36 javispedro: that's not theory, that's fact Feb 06 15:33:39 javispedro: afaik applets are preloaded Feb 06 15:33:49 javispedro: and with qml it will become even more apparent Feb 06 15:33:50 achipa: hehe :) Feb 06 15:33:56 javispedro: so you could just make everything ready on load Feb 06 15:34:10 and then just wait for show Feb 06 15:37:19 javispedro: and I would go even further - if QML gains general traction, it can easily be the thing that turns the tide in the now prevalent 'open source apps are sucky (because they look sucky)' view Feb 06 15:37:31 it 'just' needs to survive long enough to mature :) Feb 06 15:38:10 note the other part of my theory -- that gnome is actually simpler because of gtk+ is hard. Feb 06 15:38:35 I also fear that if doing monstruous, giant UIs suddently becomes easier, we'll have KDE. Feb 06 15:39:58 (and I actually can see this KDEification even in MaemoQT(HildonQt ;) ) apps, but I guess that's because I'm being overly paranoid) Feb 06 15:40:16 javispedro: was talking mainly in the context of single apps Feb 06 15:40:56 achipa: I asked many people, but noone seemed to know the correct answer Feb 06 15:41:02 achipa: is QML compiled or interpreted? Feb 06 15:41:11 Venemo: neither Feb 06 15:41:16 or both :) Feb 06 15:41:18 achipa: elaborate please Feb 06 15:42:43 how familiar are you with .ui files ? Feb 06 15:42:51 maybe it's easier to explain that way Feb 06 15:43:05 achipa: sufficently I think. moc generates .h files from them so they are compiled. Feb 06 15:43:21 right. but not necessarily :) Feb 06 15:43:35 achipa: ? Feb 06 15:43:54 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/qformbuilder.html Feb 06 15:44:24 achipa: so it's possible to use them in an interpreted way too Feb 06 15:44:50 the bottom line is - there is no 'interpreter' in the sense of something running and continuously evaluating expressions (except for embedded JS, but let's talk about that separately) Feb 06 15:45:13 it is basically a parser that constructs regular C++ objects Feb 06 15:45:33 achipa: well this QFormBuilder seems like an interpreter to me. it interprets a .ui in runtime and constructs objects according to it, doesn't it? Feb 06 15:45:35 you could equally have a QML to .CPP compiler just as you have for .ui Feb 06 15:46:56 achipa: XAML works this way: it's added to the executables as an embedded resource and then it's interpreted in runtime. this makes it that slow Feb 06 15:47:23 achipa: this is why I'm hoping that QML doesn't do such hocus-pocus and it's compiled to native code Feb 06 15:48:57 the only way QML affects speed is the initial startup, after the objects are constructed, it doesn't add or detract (again, JS caveat) Feb 06 15:49:15 achipa: ookay Feb 06 15:49:21 achipa: so it is just as insane as XAML :( Feb 06 15:49:50 Venemo: and, I would expect soon enough someone will make a qml->cpp compiler if it becomes such a big problem Feb 06 15:50:17 achipa: sadly I don't think anyone will care Feb 06 15:53:14 Venemo: I have not used xaml, but IIUC it's in a somewhat worse position, as it goes through the .net stuff, plus XML parsing is heavier than what QML does Feb 06 15:53:28 but otherwise, yes ,the approach does look similar Feb 06 15:54:26 achipa: XAML is translated to BAML so no XML parsing is involved. Feb 06 15:54:40 javispedro: no, gnome is not simpler because gtk+ is hard, gnome is simpler because of ideology - early gnomes actually had more complex UIs, but the Powers That Be worked to eradicate that Feb 06 15:55:05 villager: I use Gnome exactly because of its simplicity Feb 06 15:55:18 yes, I use gnome too Feb 06 15:55:27 and I used Gnome there as an example only, was the second thing that came to mind. Feb 06 15:55:36 EHLO javispedro Feb 06 15:55:45 villager: KDE is maybe a bit more eye-candy (with Compiz it's equally as good) Feb 06 15:56:15 villager: however in KDE it's much harder to find any options that I'm looking for. in Gnome, it's just System/Preferences Feb 06 15:56:18 hey RST38h Feb 06 15:56:21 Venemo: but BAML is just an intermediary format, isn't it ? i.e. it's just a more machine friendly representation of the structure Feb 06 15:56:26 Venemo: I like gnome, I did not say that this ideology is bad, I just tried to present it in a neutral way Feb 06 15:57:22 okay villager :) Feb 06 15:57:30 Venemo: not everyone likes that ideology (kde users for example), though, and I certainly would have liked more options in certain apps... Feb 06 15:57:45 Venemo: but overall I think it's a good idea if you're going for user-friendliness Feb 06 15:58:43 achipa: correct Feb 06 15:58:43 villager: yeah, I agree Feb 06 15:58:45 villager: some more options would be of course welcome, but I like the overall minimalism of their UI Feb 06 16:03:21 * achipa has a flamboyant comment about comparing mac and gnome, but will refrain from it in the name of desktop peace Feb 06 16:05:59 hey all, if i want to write a GUI (twitter client) that will work both on N810 and N900, any toolkit you might recommend? Feb 06 16:06:13 Qt 4.5 Feb 06 16:06:42 YATC - Yet Another Twitter Client? x{ Feb 06 16:06:44 xP* Feb 06 16:07:00 MohammadAG, it will be the ONLY client for N810 Feb 06 16:07:17 ah Feb 06 16:07:20 Note that Qt on the N8x0 is in a worse shape. Feb 06 16:07:38 so anything else perhaps? Feb 06 16:08:28 javispedro: how is reality tonight? Feb 06 16:08:33 solid enough? Feb 06 16:08:58 no, it's more like gruyère Feb 06 16:09:25 * RST38h has not idea what gruyère is but suspects it is cheese. Feb 06 16:09:46 it is =) Feb 06 16:10:35 have some work to do now, but been trying the Android SDK Feb 06 16:10:44 a horrible, horrible experience so far... Feb 06 16:11:28 had to download nearly 2GiB of git repos to build the ext3 module for the emulator kernel... Feb 06 16:12:29 javispedro: Ah haha Feb 06 16:12:57 javispedro: I *looked* at the Android stuff but have notinstalled it yet: too much other work that has to be done on a tight schedule Feb 06 16:15:37 big time sink... Feb 06 16:15:57 Also, I wonder who had the idea to ship the emulator configured with less than 90MiB of RAM. Feb 06 16:16:18 running busybox meant the system started OoM killing the UI... Feb 06 16:16:54 (busybox as a static binary.... otherwise you don't even get a sane mount command) Feb 06 16:18:09 who's on PR1.0? :P Feb 06 16:19:53 naw crap Feb 06 16:20:03 3h to download one image for a 100kb file... Feb 06 16:25:59 >>> Feb 06 16:26:00 Hello, hei joerg_rw! Feb 06 16:26:02 Make a resolution to simplify your life this year with the sleek new Nokia Ovi Suite. Browse Ovi's massive music library to put together the perfect playlist, download free street maps to your phone, get recommendations for the best mobile apps, share photos and videos with family and friends, and much more. Feb 06 16:26:03 <<< Feb 06 16:26:04 javispedro: Sounds almost like these guys did not know what Linux was =) Feb 06 16:26:28 Doc: Guess at which point of this message I threw up. Feb 06 16:26:29 RST38h: see a few hours ago for my rantins about their pure crap c library. Feb 06 16:26:36 lol Feb 06 16:26:48 I keep it that it resembles more a deconstruction of unix than anything else. Feb 06 16:26:56 MohammadAG: what file? Feb 06 16:27:08 javispedro: For unknown reasons, too Feb 06 16:27:20 javispedro: Why the hell would they need to rewrite libc??? Feb 06 16:27:27 Venemo, lock screen Feb 06 16:27:32 the PR1.0 had transitions Feb 06 16:27:36 PR1.0 one Feb 06 16:27:39 MohammadAG: hmm :) Feb 06 16:27:47 oh well they try to go to great lengths to explain their decisions, but usually, it comes down to both points: they thought multicore phones where far away, AND, they didn't know how to use ulimit. Feb 06 16:28:13 RST38h: with the very first 'i'? Feb 06 16:28:38 I'd say at Ovi Feb 06 16:28:40 s/both/two Feb 06 16:28:53 Mohammad <-- correct Feb 06 16:29:00 lol Feb 06 16:29:29 * javispedro usually stops reading at "your life". Feb 06 16:29:44 javispedro: and not knowing how to use ulimit made them rewrite libc??? Hmmm Feb 06 16:30:10 DocScrutinizer: where does that come from? Feb 06 16:30:25 Von: Feb 06 16:30:26 Nokia Feb 06 16:30:27 RST38h: well to be fair they would have to introduce new limits, like sysv ipc keys, that they seem to think as the evil reincarnated. Feb 06 16:30:35 RST38h, yay, what do I win? Feb 06 16:30:56 ~dict hei Feb 06 16:31:00 could not find definition for hei Feb 06 16:32:35 Mohammad: an Ovi Suite install package! Feb 06 16:33:15 * MohammadAG pukes Feb 06 16:33:16 RST38h: though I also fear the real reason is the usual one: Bionic is BSD. They used BSD code for the trivial libm/math.h functions, etc. Feb 06 16:33:40 and avoided anything they would probably need to pull code from a GPL lib. Feb 06 16:33:56 then made the appropiate excuses and shipped it. Feb 06 16:34:36 andridiot? meh! Feb 06 16:37:39 javispedro: they are already using Linux kernel. What difference will using gnu libc make? Feb 06 16:37:56 javispedro: furthermore, if they absolutely hate gnu libc, why not use BSD libc, as a whole? Feb 06 16:38:06 either will be fine, I guess Feb 06 16:38:51 prolly the bsd libc would need some work under Linux, as for the other question, ask them.. Feb 06 16:55:05 javispedro: On the other hand, after suffering Symbian libc, nothing can make me flinch. Feb 06 16:56:06 at least it implements sysv ipc ;) in fact seems to be enough to run gnome's glib. Feb 06 16:56:46 wow Feb 06 16:57:23 how do I change branches after cloning? Feb 06 16:57:29 shouldn't it be git checkout branchname? Feb 06 16:57:56 there should be a special command to change the pbranch in the existing tree Feb 06 16:58:02 RST38h: I was getting scared that the symbian libc actually seemed more posix to me than bionic. Symbian at least is trying... Feb 06 16:58:29 javispedro; Not on their own accord though. They had to implement libc when porting MIDP to Symbian :) Feb 06 16:58:46 MohammadAG: (git checkout) yep, should, unless it is remote. Feb 06 16:59:37 RST38h: that one (OpenC) is the one I'm talking, seems complete. But didn't had the "pleasure" to use it. Feb 06 16:59:57 MohammadAG: correct Feb 06 17:00:10 MohammadAG: if it's remote, then you'll need git fetch too Feb 06 17:00:35 javispedro: Oh, I had to use the one that came before Feb 06 17:00:47 javispedro: I haven't seen any updates for OpenTTD. what's up with it? :) Feb 06 17:01:17 javispedro: estlib.lib Feb 06 17:02:08 Venemo: less free time than last year. Also, still waiting for someone/upstream to reflow the dialogs.. Feb 06 17:02:25 RS232-to-USB driver crashed, completely fucking up Win7 USB subsystem. Feb 06 17:02:29 Rebooting. =( Feb 06 17:03:15 javispedro :( Feb 06 17:04:07 people still trying to sell nokia e61s for 119 euro >_< Feb 06 17:07:49 Venemo, so how do I switch to a remote one? Feb 06 17:10:06 pupnik: given that some people are trying to sell virginity, on eBay, I do not find E61 offers amusing Feb 06 17:11:15 Venemo: just bumping version should be easy enough, however there are many other things I had on the queue (music, dialogs, upstream kinetic scrolling..) Feb 06 17:12:36 javispedro: bionic has at least one virtue, that I can see Feb 06 17:12:43 javispedro; *No STL* Feb 06 17:12:54 heh Feb 06 17:13:25 * javispedro actually kinda likes STL, at least the basic parts of it.. Feb 06 17:13:46 basically containers and char strings... the rest... Feb 06 17:15:25 You can throw together a string class in a matter of hour Feb 06 17:15:40 And reuse it later in all your projects Feb 06 17:15:55 Containers will take a bit longer but at least you will know for sure how they work :) Feb 06 17:16:07 i used to do that, but string is fine enough Feb 06 17:19:02 javispedro, git fetch branchname should get me the branch? Feb 06 17:19:53 I usually use git branch -r Feb 06 17:20:02 er.. Feb 06 17:20:59 git checkout --track -b should work Feb 06 17:21:14 for ex. if git branch -r shows origin/my-branch-1 Feb 06 17:21:24 git checkout --track -b my-branch-1 origin/my-branch-1 Feb 06 17:39:36 what's the cheapest umts/3g phone for tethering? Feb 06 17:41:44 Basically any 3G phone will support "tethering". Feb 06 17:42:12 http://dicksmith.com.au/product/E6911/virgin-vmx-pre-paid-mobile-phone#BVRRWidgetID Feb 06 18:01:47 Hi. What is the best way to sync contacts and use my Google Voice caller ID? Feb 06 18:09:10 /win 78 Feb 06 18:09:14 Whoopsiedo. Feb 06 18:20:37 Is it possible to automatically run openvpn when i connect to a specific ssid? Feb 06 18:25:49 guess poking /etc/network/if-up.d would do the trick Feb 06 18:26:09 moin Feb 06 18:28:12 hey Feb 06 18:28:34 what's a space in regexes? Feb 06 18:38:15 MohammadAG: is that the start of a pun? Feb 06 18:38:26 heh Feb 06 18:38:40 a regex and a perl script walk into a bar Feb 06 18:39:06 * kerio doesn't get it Feb 06 18:51:48 is there any way to get the ssid of the wlan connection? Feb 06 18:52:55 iwconfig Feb 06 18:53:00 i want to invoke openvpn/change sip connections Before a certain wlan gets connected. I was thinking of putting some script in if-up.pre.d Feb 06 18:53:31 are if-up if-down scripts executed at all on maemo? Feb 06 18:54:18 ShadowJK, are they not? Feb 06 18:54:44 I'd assume a pessimistic outlook before proven wrong :-) Feb 06 18:54:58 that will be a bummer. Feb 06 18:59:30 Venemo: your puzzle-master killed my phone :-P Feb 06 19:00:21 11 year old tester thought he'd like to have a 33 * 33 puzzle XD Feb 06 19:01:07 DocScrutinizer51: yay! :P Feb 06 19:01:10 DocScrutinizer51: don't worry, 15×15 is the max in my current builds Feb 06 19:01:24 DocScrutinizer51: although I wouldn't try that size on the N900 either Feb 06 19:01:33 though it's probably mainly fremantle's swap and OOM to blame, you still should ulimit your app Feb 06 19:02:11 DocScrutinizer51: well I may set different limits according to platforms Feb 06 19:02:39 took 30min of patience to recover, via 'doesn't react. Kill?' Feb 06 19:02:49 DocScrutinizer51: but imagine that 33×33 involves the creation of 1089 pixmaps. Feb 06 19:03:06 I'm aware of that Feb 06 19:03:16 DocScrutinizer51: :) Feb 06 19:03:36 DocScrutinizer51: also, it's virtually unplayable in that size in such a small screen :P Feb 06 19:05:10 another suggestion: aliases for the resolutions, and also for the pictures Feb 06 19:05:28 DocScrutinizer51: aliases? Feb 06 19:06:22 DocScrutinizer51: what do you mean by aliases? Feb 06 19:11:36 sorry, roaming Feb 06 19:11:48 a better name than /home/user/foo/bar/acme.jpg Feb 06 19:11:53 plus preset sets like 'name=my_simpleJR; x=6; y=5; accel=false' Feb 06 19:14:10 mhmm Feb 06 19:14:10 that's a good idea Feb 06 19:14:12 and how would you give any name to /home/user/foo/bar/acme.jpg? should it be user-settable or what? Feb 06 19:21:05 ideally yes Feb 06 19:21:16 with defaulting to basename Feb 06 19:21:45 hm DocScrutinizer, okay Feb 06 19:22:36 for the profiles - you might want to store these with the pictures Feb 06 19:23:00 s/profiles/preset sets(. Feb 06 19:23:42 so one picture is a 4*4, while the other is 6*8 Feb 06 19:24:23 editing the x*y in settings would just change that one picture then Feb 06 19:25:24 but that's not seamless with current UI paradigma, so it might need further thinking to file off rough edges Feb 06 19:26:16 tge accel has been considered funny useless cheating Feb 06 19:26:54 * javispedro is stocking popcorn for mwc Feb 06 19:27:00 and it doesn't notice when all tiles fell in place, you need to touch screen and slightly move one tile so the game is solved Feb 06 19:27:41 (has been considered - by my tester :-D ) Feb 06 19:28:04 (that's why he thought he wants to cheat with 33 * 33) Feb 06 19:30:15 DocScrutinizer: this is by design Feb 06 19:30:37 DocScrutinizer: you have to assemble the pieces by yourself, the game won't solve itself with the accel :P Feb 06 19:31:24 but that 11 yo boy preferred puzzle master over his 5222(?) music xpress marble rollercoaster game, so it's actually of a certain attractiveness Feb 06 19:31:41 DocScrutinizer: :) Feb 06 19:32:13 Venemo: (by design) my tester didn't understand that Feb 06 19:32:32 DocScrutinizer: tell your tester, "you have to solve your puzzle, it won't solve itself" Feb 06 19:32:43 DocScrutinizer: I'll give you a newer build soon, it has some more eyecandy Feb 06 19:33:05 I did, still it took him 30s and then some tries to solve the ceated one Feb 06 19:33:25 cheated Feb 06 19:33:38 DocScrutinizer: hm Feb 06 19:33:46 actually it's a rather useless option Feb 06 19:34:07 DocScrutinizer: you mean, what is a rather useless option? Feb 06 19:34:14 accel Feb 06 19:34:19 cheating Feb 06 19:34:38 well it isn't supposed to be cheating. Feb 06 19:35:14 it is though. A blind person could solve arbitrary puzzles Feb 06 19:35:36 accel moves the pieces with supposedly random speed, I don't really know why it cheats Feb 06 19:36:22 although I noticed it myself Feb 06 19:36:26 flip the device left/right and up/down 6 times, and the puzle is solved, you just need to touch screen Feb 06 19:37:11 it's like filling a pill tablet Feb 06 19:38:10 (if you wonder: those boards with 100 holes. you move power ower them until all holes are filled, then press 100 pills with a 2nd board with matching bolts Feb 06 19:38:13 ) Feb 06 19:38:26 over* Feb 06 19:38:34 DocScrutinizer: yes, I noticed, but I don't know the reason. Feb 06 19:38:43 DocScrutinizer: I want it to be random. Feb 06 19:38:53 then that's a bug Feb 06 19:39:19 anyway, don't make it default Feb 06 19:39:27 okay Feb 06 19:40:13 and make your app call ulimit to avoid swap-killing whole system, no matter what Feb 06 19:41:03 DocScrutinizer: what is ulimit? Feb 06 19:44:08 umm, a shell comand which I have nfc what's the c equivalent for Feb 06 19:45:10 DocScrutinizer: and what does it do? Feb 06 19:45:18 just learned it's not a system function obviously, at least for memusage etc Feb 06 19:46:05 for shell it limits the usage of memory, the count of file handles, filesize, etc, of childs Feb 06 19:46:45 bash: help ulimit Feb 06 19:46:56 DocScrutinizer: well the limitation of puzzle sizes should fix this Feb 06 19:49:58 DocScrutinizer: also now there's auto rotation in the newest build Feb 06 19:54:56 Venemo: umm, seems I missed to update to newest puzzlemaster prior to "testing" it? Feb 06 19:55:30 DocScrutinizer: no, the newest build is not packaged Feb 06 19:55:46 there's no version info in "about" :-/ Feb 06 19:56:49 DocScrutinizer: will put it in there Feb 06 19:58:01 so, gimme some ahdjkpffz to click on, to update! Feb 06 19:58:29 ookay, just wait a moment :P Feb 06 20:06:04 DocScrutinizer: do you prefer a binary package or building from source yourself? Feb 06 20:20:48 whats new in the hildon-desktop update i just got? Feb 06 20:21:46 piggz: probably the community SSU? Feb 06 20:22:11 Venemo: i know that, just wondered what the change was :) Feb 06 20:23:00 piggz: I dunno, ask on #maemo-ssu Feb 06 20:23:26 DocScrutinizer: so? Feb 06 20:23:27 see debian/changelog or gitorious Feb 06 20:23:35 ~seen merlin1991 Feb 06 20:23:42 merlin1991 <~merlin@mail.goerlitz.at> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 1h 39m 25s ago, saying: 'time I finally read that opengles book I own :)'. Feb 06 20:23:57 MohammadAG: ok Feb 06 20:27:46 ooo, desaturation....lets try it out Feb 06 20:28:50 desaturation? Feb 06 20:30:15 BCMM: instead of blurring Feb 06 20:30:28 i, was wondering if it was for that Feb 06 20:30:42 (as the modal-parent effect, right?) Feb 06 20:31:01 also, is this an ssu thing? are we discussing this in the wrong place? Feb 06 20:31:19 anyone know how to get ahold of the gpg key E40DC434616730BD? Feb 06 20:31:43 BCMM: it's a configurable option Feb 06 20:31:57 Venemo: in what? Feb 06 20:32:28 you need a custom hildon-desktop Feb 06 20:32:54 the next CSSU update will include it and make it configurable, thanks to thp Feb 06 20:33:14 MohammadAG: that's what i was wondering, thanks Feb 06 20:33:52 MohammadAG: next as in the one i'm installing now, or the one after that? Feb 06 20:34:15 the one after it Feb 06 20:34:21 i'll hopefully upload it today Feb 06 20:34:43 cool Feb 06 20:34:57 ah, i thought it was in already as it was comitted Feb 06 20:34:59 my error Feb 06 20:35:27 it's always bugged me that one can't read the parent window other than in short snatches while switching windows Feb 06 20:35:31 I'd upload it, but my laptop lacks WoL :P Feb 06 20:36:25 heh Feb 06 20:37:24 talking of how it's annoying having to actually physically go to where a device is sometimes, what's the simplest way to make sound some from a shell, even if the n900 is on silent? Feb 06 20:37:38 (for when i am SSH'ed in, but can't find the damn thing) Feb 06 20:37:48 :) Feb 06 20:37:51 (yes this actually happens quite a lot) Feb 06 20:37:55 I use my script Feb 06 20:37:59 phone-control Feb 06 20:38:15 phone-control --volume 100, then i use mplayer Feb 06 20:39:03 MohammadAG: so what does phone-control do? convenient command-line access to stuff which doesn't otherwise have convenient command-line access? Feb 06 20:39:38 BCMM, I can't remember dbus paths and I hate having to browse the wiki to look up the dbus command for something Feb 06 20:39:41 DocScrutinizer: see http://venemo.net/puzzle-master_1.1.0_armel.deb Feb 06 20:39:54 so I merged all (or most?) commands from the Phone Control wiki in one script Feb 06 20:40:14 DocScrutinizer: now I'll start with your latest recommendations Feb 06 20:40:28 BCMM, http://pastebin.com/U53N7Sqx Feb 06 20:41:20 MohammadAG: splendid! Feb 06 20:41:32 play-sound /usr/share/sounds/game-chess_checkmate.wav Feb 06 20:43:02 SpeedEvil, doesn't work in silent afaik Feb 06 20:43:25 nah, it's the other half of the problem Feb 06 20:43:42 MohammadAG: ah Feb 06 20:43:48 For the logs => To properly get around the missing key error "NO_PUBKEY E40DC434616730BD", run this: gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key E40DC434616730BD && gpg --armor --export E40DC434616730BD | apt-key add - Feb 06 20:43:54 play_sound ignores volume, always uses 100 Feb 06 20:43:55 i'm going to do both in a simple script and call in whereami Feb 06 20:44:02 -* Feb 06 20:44:17 (like whoami, the other command one only types when one's brain has temporarily stopped working) Feb 06 20:44:18 but only in general Feb 06 20:44:32 sometimes I just echo 255 into the vibra Feb 06 20:44:40 MohammadAG: what does that do? Feb 06 20:44:44 its sound is enough to find the device Feb 06 20:45:05 MohammadAG: 255? is the strength of the vibration configurable? Feb 06 20:45:11 yes Feb 06 20:45:13 it's analog Feb 06 20:45:24 It starts at around 19 - varying in temp Feb 06 20:45:33 though at that output, you can;'t feel it Feb 06 20:46:15 Venemo, start the vibra Feb 06 20:46:33 MohammadAG: ah. Feb 06 20:47:11 echo 255 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness Feb 06 20:47:15 try it as root Feb 06 20:47:27 touching the screen will disable it, ideal when doing it over ssh Feb 06 20:47:29 fuck me... The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG E40DC434616730BD maemo.org Extras repositories (Fremantle Extras) Feb 06 20:47:35 DocScrutinizer: your tester should test full screen mode and automatic rotation :P Feb 06 20:47:44 getting the proper key installed just avoids the first problem Feb 06 20:47:46 also if you know a desperate girl and she has an N900.... Feb 06 20:47:48 nevermind Feb 06 20:48:25 lol Feb 06 20:48:30 MohammadAG: surely that would void the warranty? Feb 06 20:49:00 BCMM, depends on the girl Feb 06 20:49:18 MohammadAG: sleep 2; echo 255 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness Feb 06 20:49:24 and the vibration FQ Feb 06 20:49:25 :) Feb 06 20:49:34 DocScrutinizer: also the animations are refined, plus the puzzle assembles itself when you surrender Feb 06 20:49:36 DocScrutinizer, that's not necessary over ssh Feb 06 20:49:39 :) Feb 06 20:49:45 I know Feb 06 20:49:59 Venemo: he's asleep now, I guess Feb 06 20:49:59 trx, yeah, and what happens after 20 minutes Feb 06 20:50:15 the slider might become loose Feb 06 20:50:20 DocScrutinizer: well I'll suffice with you then if you wanna test :P Feb 06 20:50:35 yeah, or strange fluids might make a short.. Feb 06 20:50:42 why does "echo 20 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness" produce a quite beeping noise? Feb 06 20:50:50 watching news about Egypt, maybe later Feb 06 20:51:14 BCMM: PWM cycle freq Feb 06 20:52:03 also DocScrutinizer, it's now not possible to cover a piece with a bigger piece Feb 06 20:52:11 BCMM: PWM frequrncy Feb 06 20:52:54 BCMM: vib motor gets switched on for 20 parts and off for 235 parts of a 1/4000 second Feb 06 21:00:58 btw 255 for vib might be not safe for extended periods of time. And it's useless anyway - I found the effect is even better on lower power for the vib. 255 is simply too fast for such a heavy device to make it vibrate Feb 06 21:05:33 though vibrator REALLY behaves extremely strange when echo 100 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness while locked Feb 06 21:06:11 vibrator has brightness? =) Feb 06 21:06:11 there's *definitely* something ODD going on Feb 06 21:06:19 yeah :-S Feb 06 21:06:29 Guys, it it possible to run the Openvpn applet from the command line? Feb 06 21:06:30 vib is a LED Feb 06 21:06:33 RST38h: according to the kernel, the vibrator is a led Feb 06 21:06:41 Yeaaaaah Feb 06 21:06:42 RST38h: presumably, it's connected to the same system that does LED brightness Feb 06 21:07:01 the LEDs are definitely PWM, because i can see it Feb 06 21:07:20 I can always call openvpn directly in a script, but it will be more useful to have a gui feedback the applet Feb 06 21:07:48 it's so fsckng hilarious how vib behaves, I just wonder what strange bug that might be. Suspect CPU freq governour Feb 06 21:10:08 BCMM: nope Feb 06 21:10:22 DocScrutinizer: to what? Feb 06 21:10:23 BCMM: LEDs are completely different hw Feb 06 21:10:34 heh, so why does it have brightness? Feb 06 21:11:15 because of it's a similar type of device? Feb 06 21:12:25 brightness = voltage is it not? Feb 06 21:13:11 damn, could anybody confirm this totally random fsckdup behaviour of vib, for `echo 150 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness` while locked? Feb 06 21:13:24 will my n900 explode? Feb 06 21:13:51 BCMM: of course Feb 06 21:14:06 probably they'd have been better off calling it intensity rather than brightness, for all devices of class LED Feb 06 21:14:19 BCMM: nope Feb 06 21:14:22 DocScrutinizer: what sort of oddness? it just vibrates, loudly Feb 06 21:14:39 what does yours do? Feb 06 21:14:55 mine changes between 255-intesity, 150-intesity, and 0, on a random pattern Feb 06 21:15:05 hahaha Feb 06 21:15:15 wierd :D Feb 06 21:15:32 changes patterns Feb 06 21:15:44 true random, yes Feb 06 21:16:13 random Feb 06 21:16:19 well, not true, but at least good enough Feb 06 21:16:32 no pattern Feb 06 21:16:39 no pattern at all Feb 06 21:16:48 WTF??? Feb 06 21:17:44 stop mce didn't help Feb 06 21:17:52 seems a true kernel bug Feb 06 21:18:25 I suspect CPU clock freq changes firing back to PWM somehow Feb 06 21:19:43 the most strange thing is it only happens when locked Feb 06 21:20:35 well, screen brightness as well has one component controlled by same hw PWM Feb 06 21:21:14 so it might be possible that something gets disabled or misconfig'd when screen goes to sleep (aka dim backlight) Feb 06 21:22:42 I prolly should check the kernel driver source Feb 06 21:22:59 I guess I could spot the bug Feb 06 21:24:17 (btw I mentioned this already some 6..9 months ago, seems I should have opened a ticket instead) Feb 06 21:27:23 trx: so what's the kernel you are using? Feb 06 21:27:47 power v46 Feb 06 21:27:54 :-/ Feb 06 21:27:57 same here Feb 06 21:28:33 going to check with stock kernel, but I thnk I'm sure it happened some 6 months ago as well, on stock Feb 06 21:29:43 MEH, OK on stock Feb 06 21:30:35 so my next suspect is this friggin dbrightness patch Feb 06 21:31:30 which is cmpletely unclear how it's meant to work anyway Feb 06 21:31:53 pull the battery Feb 06 21:31:59 eh? Feb 06 21:32:01 switching kernels won't help Feb 06 21:32:07 eh? Feb 06 21:32:27 LED gone? Feb 06 21:32:31 nope Feb 06 21:32:33 or did misinterpret that Feb 06 21:32:39 = me sounding like an idiot Feb 06 21:32:40 power kernel buggy Feb 06 21:32:43 did I* Feb 06 21:33:29 MohammadAG: would you please test the latest puzzle-master? http://venemo.net/puzzle-master_1.1.0_armel.deb Feb 06 21:35:41 X-( missing pkgs: libhildon-extras1; libhildon1 (>=2.2.22) Feb 06 21:36:04 DocScrutinizer: http://maemo.org/packages or just install from -devel Feb 06 21:36:32 mmpf Feb 06 21:37:32 DocScrutinizer: http://maemo.org/packages/view/libhildon1/ http://maemo.org/packages/view/libhildon-extras1/ Feb 06 21:37:46 MohammadAG: could you kick out that dbrightness patch? Feb 06 21:38:48 not now, in bed :P Feb 06 21:40:58 MohammadAG, lazy bastard. Feb 06 21:44:32 Venemo: no puzzlemaster to install or update, even from -devel Feb 06 21:45:04 GAN900, got school :P Feb 06 21:45:04 DocScrutinizer51: I meant that for the libs Feb 06 21:45:24 DocScrutinizer51: puzzlemaster update will go to -devel after you have tested it :) Feb 06 21:49:14 DocScrutinizer51: especially interested in your 11-year-old tester :) so please show it to him(her?) tomorrow :) Feb 06 21:49:57 I'm reluctant to (try) install those libs Feb 06 21:51:02 HELP Feb 06 21:51:23 Venemo, where do you store recently used images? Feb 06 21:51:24 I think my debian killed my external hdd... Feb 06 21:52:03 MohammadAG: QSettings Feb 06 21:52:58 MohammadAG: ~/.conf/Venemo/Puzzle Master/... Feb 06 21:53:17 Hi. Can someone help figure why this is failing? http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=zSyZGa06 Feb 06 21:53:22 Venemo, do you save on exit? Feb 06 21:53:33 cause I had to delete it, twice :p Feb 06 21:53:39 http://paste.debian.net/106719/ Feb 06 21:53:39 I am trying to use SIP over OpenVPN but it fails to connect Feb 06 21:54:35 MohammadAG: I save it when you add a new one Feb 06 21:54:49 MohammadAG: and the app doesn't forget them while it's running Feb 06 21:55:05 MohammadAG: I'll add options to maintain the list Feb 06 21:57:47 MohammadAG, no excuse. Feb 06 22:00:57 DocScrutinizer51: don't worry, those libs should work okay. Feb 06 22:02:39 DocScrutinizer51: I also added you to the thanks section of http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67139 's first post :) Feb 06 22:03:10 guys, somehow mc-tool doesnt want to run if i stick it in /etc/network/if-up.d/script Feb 06 22:04:36 Does script get executed? Feb 06 22:05:50 ShadowJK: http://www.pastie.org/1535185 Feb 06 22:05:56 ShadowJK: yes, it does get executed Feb 06 22:06:47 ShadowJK: it is just that mc-tool doesnt run in the script Feb 06 22:08:08 hm :/ Feb 06 22:08:57 ShadowJK: do i need a run-standalone.sh mc-tool Feb 06 22:09:42 GAN900, don't make me visit florida Feb 06 22:09:48 what's mc-tool Feb 06 22:10:39 DocScrutinizer51: mission-control to control telepathy components Feb 06 22:10:49 MohammadAG: :D Feb 06 22:10:55 AcoughA Feb 06 22:11:01 ShadowJK: ah! it works Feb 06 22:11:12 ShadowJK: yup, need that run-standalone.sh Feb 06 22:13:39 does openvpn run from its init script in N900? Feb 06 22:13:48 /etc/init.d/openvpn Feb 06 22:15:23 i want to bring up openvpn via "if-pre-up.d" rather than manually using the openvpn applet Feb 06 22:16:46 So as soon i hit the Wifi connect button, openvpn gets triggered. Feb 06 22:17:48 Yeah it runs if you've got a configuration for it Feb 06 22:17:57 Try starting it manually first /etc/init.d/openvpn start Feb 06 22:20:08 ShadowJK: how does it get the name of the conf file? Feb 06 22:20:35 probably /etc/defaults/openvpn Feb 06 22:20:39 or something like that Feb 06 22:20:44 ShadowJK: /etc/default/openvpn should have AUTOSTART="something" Feb 06 22:20:49 check the /etc/init.d/openvpn script, that's what I did Feb 06 22:20:57 Oh and tunnel configs are probably in /etc/openvpn/ Feb 06 22:21:08 ShadowJK: right. it had something called $NAME Feb 06 22:22:29 ShadowJK: init script refers to a $NAME.conf, no idea where it comes from though Feb 06 22:22:31 in C++ in, if (x = y && a = b) does && mean "AND" or "OR"? Feb 06 22:22:39 and Feb 06 22:22:43 ty Feb 06 22:22:48 logical and not binary Feb 06 22:23:16 hey again Feb 06 22:23:26 frozen lemons sound just like pool-balls when you clack them together Feb 06 22:24:04 that makes a surprising amount of sense Feb 06 22:24:11 frozen grapes are nasty Feb 06 22:26:25 :) Feb 06 22:29:12 probably also much easier to squeeze the juice out, one you froze and warmed up those lemmons Feb 06 22:32:46 theoretically it should be DocScrutinizer51 Feb 06 22:35:10 MohammadAG, it's warm here. :P Feb 06 22:35:50 MohammadAG: why does phone-control put run-standalone.sh before dbus-send commands? Feb 06 22:36:08 in addition they can be bought when cheap, frozen forever, and heated in microwave whenever you want a non-caffeine, non-alcoholic drink Feb 06 22:40:52 pupnik: sounds good Feb 06 22:41:44 Venemo: i can't share anything else useful :) Feb 06 22:41:51 pupnik: :) Feb 06 22:42:08 except anybody in UK who wants to buy soem great pasta-sauce i found another source Feb 06 22:42:15 BCMM, if you do a sudo dbus-send it fails Feb 06 22:42:34 asian/thai style - it's soo good, but they don't ship to germany Feb 06 22:42:40 MohammadAG: ah, it only works normally because of some bit of the environment... Feb 06 22:42:51 (by normally, i meant from bash) Feb 06 22:42:58 does someone have an N810 and ~5 minutes for me? Feb 06 22:45:13 What's the question Venemo Feb 06 22:46:02 BCMM: session bus - ponder the word Feb 06 22:46:11 DocScrutinizer51: :) Feb 06 22:47:53 pupnik: I'd like to see how puzzle-master runs on N810 Feb 06 22:48:08 pupnik: if you're willing to test, I'll make you a .deb Feb 06 22:48:14 MohammadAG: do you accept extra functions for phone-control? seems like determining current profile is a missing feature. Feb 06 22:48:14 i can't - stolen Feb 06 22:48:48 pupnik :( Feb 06 22:48:50 (i've just made a script to enable the general profile, make some noise, and then return to whichever profile was in use before) Feb 06 22:52:12 BCMM, I think I did that Feb 06 22:52:45 phone-control --profileset without any parameters Feb 06 22:54:09 MohammadAG: oh, sorry - --help doesn't mention that Feb 06 22:54:26 BCMM, sorry, was a newbie back then :P Feb 06 22:54:27 at least i learned a little awk Feb 06 22:55:06 --ledon shows patterns if no patterns are specified Feb 06 22:55:29 ShadowJK: init script craps out, http://www.pastie.org/1535305 Feb 06 22:57:26 I've never tried "status" :) Feb 06 22:59:30 ShadowJK: where does the log of openvpn go? Feb 06 22:59:55 ShadowJK: it might be necessary to look into the log, if i ever had trouble with openvpn Feb 06 23:00:05 syslog, which is nonexistant on maemo unless you have syslogd package installed Feb 06 23:00:11 which fills up rootfs if you leave it running Feb 06 23:00:38 ah, crap. i dont want syslogd Feb 06 23:31:31 MohammadAG, what is new in mc in extras-devel? Feb 06 23:33:56 MohammadAG, seems you are the maintainer of mc. Feb 07 00:21:32 DocScrutinizer: I found a bunch of bugs :( Feb 07 00:50:36 quit Feb 07 01:31:08 Having MWKN to make it easier to stay informed about what's going on is kind of defeating by having to be informed to write the summaries. . . . **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Feb 07 02:59:56 2011